MediaWiki - User contributions [en]

User talk:-Blackout-

2011-02-15T14:15:39Z

-Blackout-: New page: ==An Announcement== I would like to apologize for my meltdown earlier on. It was stupid, it was unwarranted, and I am sorry. --~~~~

==An Announcement==

I would like to apologize for my meltdown earlier on. It was stupid, it was unwarranted, and I am sorry. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 09:15, 15 February 2011 (EST)

User talk:Chris McFeely

2011-02-04T16:02:06Z

-Blackout-: /* Request */ new section

[[User talk:Chris McFeely/2006|2006 Archives]]

[[User talk:Chris McFeely/2007|2007 Archives]]

[[User talk:Chris McFeely/2008|2008-9 Archives]]

==Chris's To-Do list==

===Completed===
{{collist|3|
*[[Blacker]]
*[[Braver]]
*[[Deathsaurus (Victory)|Deathsaurus]]
*[[Gaihawk]]/[[Hawkbreast]]
*[[Hellbat]]/[[Kōmoribreast]]
*[[Jarugar]]/[[Jaguarbreast]]
*[[Laster]]
*[[Leozack]]/[[Lionbreast]]
*[[Road Caesar]]
*[[Solon Kitakaze (Victory)|Solon Kitakaze]]
*[[Star Saber (Victory)|Star Saber]]
}}

===To do===

{{collist|3|
*[[Drillhorn]]
*[[Killbison]]
*[[Liokaiser]]
*[[Gōryū]]
*[[Gairyū]]
*[[Rairyū]]
*[[Yokuryū]]
*[[Doryū]]
*[[Kakuryū]]
*[[Dinoking]]
*[[Wingwaver]]
*[[Dashtacker]]
*[[Machtackle]]
*[[Wing (Victory)|Wing]]
*[[Waver]]
*[[Dash (Victory)|Dash]]
*[[Tacker]]
*[[Mach]]
*[[Tackle]]
*[[Landcross (Victory)|Landcross]]
*[[Greatshot]]
*[[Victory Leo]]
*[[Galaxy Shuttle]]
*[[Jean Minakaze]]
*[[Illumina]]
}}

== Daniel in Kiss Players ==

The note at the bottom says exactly where the bit about Daniel being frozen comes from. The timeline. KP presented a massive timeline of the G1 Japanese cartoon continuity that was probably the geekiest thing ever. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:15, 30 January 2010 (EST)
:I know what the note ''says'', but if you look [[Generation_1_cartoon_timeline_(Japan)|at the timeline]]...it's not mentioned anywhere. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 10:37, 30 January 2010 (EST)
::Aaarrgh, don't tell me that! I reference daniel's cryonic suspension in my Collectors' Club article.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 11:27, 30 January 2010 (EST)
:::I believe it must be ''somewhere'', because it was Swift who added it, wasn't it? And Swift is like Layla Miller, with all the knowing of stuff. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 12:13, 30 January 2010 (EST)
::::Perhaps it was mentioned in passing in one of the radio dramas? If we go that route at least no one could argue that it ''wasn't'' since, shit, ''nobody's'' listened to those things. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 12:22, 30 January 2010 (EST)
:::::I've got a Japanese site bookmarked that summarizes all of them, and although it is all google-translated, I can't find anything that even ''resembles'' a reference to Daniel. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 12:31, 30 January 2010 (EST)
::::::IIRC, there are actually two different published timelines. One was on the side of Autrooper's packaging, and I think the other was in the KissPlay/Teletraan Go! Go! compilation book... they varied on a few subtle details, IIRC. You may want to ask Swift to be sure. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 16:48, 2 February 2010 (EST)

==Deathy's Resurrection==
Wait, why are you counting that as a story page? Wouldn't it just fall under toy bio/toy catalog continuity, like the time BW Megatron got smacked around by BWII Galvatron? (For that manner, since I assume it was internally produced by Takara, I don't know if we can safely say the art is by Ban Magami...) --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 16:48, 2 February 2010 (EST)
:Oh, well, I didn't put it on that page, it was there already. Given that it can't really work continuity-wise with the other story pages, it probably should be moved ''somewhere'' else, but I'm not sure where. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 16:51, 2 February 2010 (EST)
::Oh, unless you were referring to the header its info has been given on the character pages, in which case - that was Spengs. :) *looks innocent* - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 16:54, 2 February 2010 (EST)

==Henkei manga scans?==
What would you do if I sent over scans of the remaining Henkei chapters? (Mind, I scanned them pretty high, so they're running 2-3 megs) --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 04:24, 18 February 2010 (EST)
:I would smile broadly, then regret that there weren't summaries up yet so I could understand them properly. ;) - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 07:21, 18 February 2010 (EST)
::But lest it not be apparent that I desperately desire these things - send away at them to gears_chatroom_god(at)hotmail.com ! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 14:51, 19 February 2010 (EST)

==Fast Action Jackson==

Thanks for clarifying that only the first 3 waves of FABs were released in Japan and removing the fiction from the proper characters. But I have to ask, if Frenzy was released in Japan as an FAB, why'd you remove the fiction from ''his'' article? Also, should I go ahead and add the FAB/BW crossover fiction to *all* the characters who were released in the Telemocha line? Even...the BWII and Neo characters? Or just the ones on Energoa? --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 20:23, 25 February 2010 (EST)
:Oh, yeah, Frenzy wasn't either. I missed him and then went back. /:) I'm really not sure what to do about the BW characters, though... after all, the II and Neo characters wouldn't have been on Energoa... - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 20:26, 25 February 2010 (EST)
::Ahhh. Gotcha. Thanks. As for the Telemocha dudes, I guess I'll add the info regularly to the Energoa guys, but for the likes of Gimlet, Motorarm and Cohrada, I'll just add something like "They may or may not have been transported back in time to Energoa to fight in the Beast Wars there against invading Autobots and Decepticons from another dimension" or something to that effect. With all the damn Blasty Zone time travel bullshit that goes on in the Japanese timeline, it probably isn't too out of the question that they went there for a second and came back somehow. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 21:08, 25 February 2010 (EST)

== Last three Masterforce screencaps ==

Hey Chris, I believe these are the last three Masterforce screencaps that need descriptions added back in: [[:Image:Parrot_and_armadillo.jpg]], [[:Image:Parrot_armadillo_headon.jpg]], [[:Image:Wilder_beastmode.jpg]]

I haven't been able to track down which episodes they're from, but I figured you might know offhand. :) --[[User:Abates|abates]] 08:03, 21 April 2010 (EDT)
:Dah! Might have to think about one or two of those for a minute... nice work getting the MF ep articles illustrated!! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 08:26, 21 April 2010 (EDT)
::Thanks! Good to have that finished! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 15:59, 21 April 2010 (EDT)
:::Oh, I discovered I'd missed [[:Image:Diver suiton.jpg]] too, but I haven't had any luck working out which episode it's from. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 04:12, 22 April 2010 (EDT)

==Subgroup==

I was looking at the page, and I'm genuinely shocked at how a fairly important section is abandoned. I'd have a go, but I can't decide on what style to do it in [[User:Eire]] Apr 22 15.56 2010

== Thanks ==

Thanks for protecting those pages. It was funny because I was just going to propose them being protected! --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 09:24, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

== Clip show ==

Hey, Chris I have a G1 Headmasters clip show that does not appear anywhere, I tried to add it but you changed all that. What do I need to do to add it? - [[User:Crisdecal|Crisdecal]] 09, July 2010.
:The episode you were trying to add already has [[Fight!! Super Ginrai|an article]]. Add the info there. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 05:50, 9 July 2010 (EDT)
::You don't understand. It's a completely different episode. It's not Headmasters episode 43. It's different. The title is even slightly different. I have most recap episodes and trust me, its not any of the ones here. - [[User:Crisdecal|Crisdecal]]
::::That would be ''Masterforce'', I think you mean, rather than Headmasters. Unless that's what's causing your confusion. And I think we would need to see some proof of this, because every episode list for Masterforce, up to an including those published in Japanese guidebooks, only includes 47 episodes. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 06:27, 9 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::Your right. I meant Masterforce. I've uploaded 2 pics to this site. I'm new to this site so how do I show them to you? -[[User:Crisdecal|Crisdecal]]
::::::It's okay, I can see them on the recent changes page. I'm not sure what I'm looking at there with the second image - that's a title card from a VICTORY DVD set. Why is a Masterforce episode on a Victory set? - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 06:34, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::That's how they are on the Pioneer LDC release. I recently came across this site in attempts to collect the recap episodes and in hunting down the recap episodes through the 'net I came across someone that sold me copies of the Pioneer LDC discs. What we both found is that the Masterforce recap episodes 43 & 44 are on the Masterforce disc 8; the Masterforce recap episode 47 and the one I'm telling you about is on the Victory Disc 6; the Headmasters recap episodes 36-38 are on Victory disc 7; and the Victory recap episodes 40-44 are on the Victory disc 8. -[[User:Crisdecal|Crisdecal]]
::::::::Well, I have to say, that's the first I've heard of anything like that. You're sure these are the genuine articles? Because that seems like an odd sort of mix up. Not to say that I could imagine a new clip show could have been created for a bootleg, or anything, but I'm at a bit of a loss, because... well, there's never been any indicated of another Masterforce clip show, and for it to have basically the same title as another one... I think we need someone more knowledgeable than I, and probably one who speaks Japanese, to clarify this... - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 06:57, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

This is an original copy from the Pioneer LDC disc. I didn't believe it either until I was watching the recaps earlier tonight. I thought that the recap episode in question was also Masterforce episode 43. But you can tell there is a slight difference in the title and even the whole episode is different from all the other recaps. There is a narrator on this one and through out the whole episode each main characters title appears in large bold Japanese characters every time a new character is introduced. -[[User:Crisdecal|Crisdecal]]

The central character in this clip show is of course Super Ginari showing him kick Decepticon butt. Let me know what comes about all of this -[[User:Crisdecal|Crisdecal]]

== Almanac II Annotations for Page 98 ==
Would that text by Yoketron happen to read as "Musabetsu Kakuto Ryuu"? If so, it's a Ranma 1/2 reference- most often translated as "Anything Goes Martial Arts'. - [[User:Ayellowbirds|Ayellowbirds]] 23:47, 15 July 2010 (EDT)
:Oh! Oh, very well done, sir! :) - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 04:44, 16 July 2010 (EDT)

==Unsolved anagrams==

Just got these reponses from Forster, thought you might need them for the annotations:

"I was just looking at the Almanac Annotations, and saw a section labeled "Unsolved Anagrams" with a listing for a "Baron Ye Gult". I was wondering if it was perhaps "Tonya Bulger"
Updated Answer: I originally answered the question incorrectly. I thought you asked about 'Friar Ilia Tote'. So if anyone read that and was confused, its because I was asleep at the wheel. 'Baron Ye Gult' is my friend Albert Young. Albert is a big sports fan and goes dancing in clubs, but I am his friend anyway.

Another anagram: Is "Dankly Woolens" supposed to be "Kendall Swoony"? Sorry if these have been solved and just not posted to the annotations.
Kelly Woods, my kid sister. I didn't expect people to get all the anagrams. They were mostly just me having fun."

Given the letters used, I'm going to assume that Kelly's middle name is Ann. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 11:02, 28 July 2010 (EDT)

== D'oh! ==

I must have been thinking of Return of. Thanks for the correction! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 22:01, 13 September 2010 (EDT)

== i thought you might find this intresting ==

hi i am the denim cowboy i saw you at aa 2010 guy in cowboy hat. anyroad i am in beijing at this moment i saw in a basement in shanghai the masterforce and victory dvd boxset with your commentaries and your name on them your voice has gone all the way to china i will get a couple of pics and send them on when i return to shanghai.

i havent found much tf toys most of it revenge of the fallen and the power core combiners not much intresting but i did find in a toy market a TRANSFORMERS Original G1 1986 SHARKTICON GNAW Complete with japanese box

i thought you might want to know these bits of info

the denim cowboy
::I decree this to be awesome. :D - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 10:48, 23 September 2010 (EDT)

hi

i got the photos i needed from that dvd shop in shanghai that had the masterforce and victory dvd if you want me to send them on to you i need an e-mail address to send then to.

the denim cowboy

==Character box Victory clipshow==
For "[[Echo Across the Galaxy! Bell of Love!!]]", there's two (2)-entries and two (27)-entries. I've tried finding the episode on youtube, but came out empty-handed. Think you could fix this, and, while you are at it, perhaps add Jean's other classmate to the list if he appears in the clipshow? [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 08:08, 31 October 2010 (EDT)

== ohhh ==

thanks how do i get photoshop?[[User:Robo killa|Robo killa]] 08:49, 4 December 2010 (EST)
:You buy it. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 09:42, 4 December 2010 (EST)

== i.e: that Archtransit dude ==

I wouldn't be surprised if he was [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Archtransit this dude]. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:37, 5 December 2010 (EST)

== Request ==

Could you please ban me? I don't plan on contributing here any further. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 11:02, 4 February 2011 (EST)

Fanon

2011-02-04T15:53:29Z

-Blackout-:

'''Fanon''' is a portmanteau word comprised out of the words "[[fandom|fan]]" and "[[canon]]". It refers to so-called "facts" that a significant number of fans think are true, but for which there is no evidence in any official material. A piece of fanon usually becomes widespread due to having been discussed and picked up by other fans. Some fanon is based on misinterpretations of canon (especially when translations from Japanese material are involved) and some is simply stuff fans made up. While fanon originates with fans rather than the official canon of the Transformers [[Continuity|multiverse]], it sometimes becomes incorporated into the canon via [[retcon]] or other means if a writer decides to establish the fans' interpretation in official fiction. Sometimes, this can also happen because an official writer mistakes fanon for established canon.

Misuse of the term has broadened the word's definition (among some) to include fan-characters and fan-fiction. (See "Transfanon Wiki" link below.) The difference is that fan-fiction is an ''extension'' built upon canon, while fanon is an ''interpretation'' or ''explanation'' of existing canon.

==Examples==
Fanon terms or ideas that later became canon:
* "Gestalt" as a term for [[Combiner|combiners]]
* The name of the Predacon ship being the [[Darksyde|''Darkside'' or ''Darksyde'']].
* The [[Armada (toyline)|''Armada'' beast redecoes]] being [[Unicron's Four Horsemen|Unicron's "horsemen"]].
* "[[Herald of Unicron]]" (though only used once)
* [[Subspace]] as an interdimensional storage medium
* [[Hot Shot (Armada)|Hot Shot]] is crazy and craves [[JaAm|jam]]
* U-Haul Robot from the cartoon is [[Sentinel Prime (G1)|Sentinel Prime]].

Fanon terms or ideas that never became canon:
* [[Dion]] having been rebuilt into somebody "important"
* [[Metrotitan (Zone)|Metrotitan]] being a "[[zombie]]" [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]], or [[cloning|cloned]] from a severed leg.

==Fanon and this wiki==
{{SITENAME SHORT}} generally tries to avoid including fanon, unless it becomes so widespread that excluding it is quixotic or if enough people like it and think it should be included.

==External links==
*[http://transfanon.wikia.com/ The Transfanon Wiki]

{{stub}}

[[Category:Fandom]]

Fanon

2011-02-04T15:53:12Z

-Blackout-: NEEDS MOAR TRUTH (also burning my bridges behind me)

'''Fanon''' is a portmanteau word comprised out of the words "[[fandom|fan]]" and "[[canon]]". It refers to so-called "facts" that a significant number of fans think are true, but for which there is no evidence in any official material. A piece of fanon usually becomes widespread due to having been discussed and picked up by other fans. Some fanon is based on misinterpretations of canon (especially when translations from Japanese material are involved) and some is simply stuff fans made up. While fanon originates with fans rather than the official canon of the Transformers [[Continuity|multiverse]], it sometimes becomes incorporated into the canon via [[retcon]] or other means if a writer decides to establish the fans' interpretation in official fiction. Sometimes, this can also happen because an official writer mistakes fanon for established canon.

Misuse of the term has broadened the word's definition (among some) to include fan-characters and fan-fiction. (See "Transfanon Wiki" link below.) The difference is that fan-fiction is an ''extension'' built upon canon, while fanon is an ''interpretation'' or ''explanation'' of existing canon.

==Examples==
Fanon terms or ideas that later became canon:
* "Gestalt" as a term for [[Combiner|combiners]]
* The name of the Predacon ship being the [[Darksyde|''Darkside'' or ''Darksyde'']].
* The [[Armada (toyline)|''Armada'' beast redecoes]] being [[Unicron's Four Horsemen|Unicron's "horsemen"]].
* "[[Herald of Unicron]]" (though only used once)
* [[Subspace]] as an interdimensional storage medium
* [[Hot Shot (Armada)|Hot Shot]] is crazy and craves [[JaAm|jam]]
* U-Haul Robot from the cartoon is [[Sentinel Prime (G1)|Sentinel Prime]].

Fanon terms or ideas that never became canon:
* [[Dion]] having been rebuilt into somebody "important"
* [[Metrotitan (Zone)|Metrotitan]] being a "[[zombie]]" [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]], or [[cloning|cloned]] from a severed leg.

==Fanon and this wiki==
{{SITENAME SHORT}} generally tries to avoid including fanon, unless it becomes so widespread that excluding it is quixotic or if enough people like it.

==External links==
*[http://transfanon.wikia.com/ The Transfanon Wiki]

{{stub}}

[[Category:Fandom]]

User talk:-Blackout-/Archive Delta

2011-02-04T15:38:26Z

-Blackout-:

==Transformers 3==
{{note|Discussion continued on [[User talk:TheRex4441]]. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 16:24, 10 July 2010 (EDT)}}

Dude, what the heck! Why did you erase it? It was official stuff! There's even some video and pics of it on tfw2005!--[[User:TheRex4441|TheRex4441]] 02:32, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

==Stuff==

Sorry, but when I haven't seen anyone to do anything to page of Transformers 3, I had to use my chance to make the edits all by myself with confirming information, of course. --[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 09:20, 6 August 2010 (EDT)
:Yeah. The problem is that you're making tons of edits, when you could make one or two bigger edits. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 02:29, 6 August 2010 (EDT)

==Contact==
:This might not be the best place to contact you about this, but i noticed you are from Belgium too. Want to to talk about sightings and whatever in belgium?--[[User:Sunjumper|Sunjumper]] 16:26, 30 September 2010 (EDT)
::You might want to try a forum, Sunjumper. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 16:27, 30 September 2010 (EDT)
:::Actually I'm Polish, it's just that I live in Belgium. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 02:05, 1 October 2010 (EDT)

==WOH Lyzack==
If you have access to the material, I've heard that [[Lyzack]] received a color scheme in the recent FunPub comics. Could you add a note or an image to her article about it? [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 07:28, 18 December 2010 (EST)

Dead End (Animated)

2011-02-02T14:31:33Z

-Blackout-: /* Timelines */ tense

{{faction|decepticon}}
{{disambig3|Dead End}}
:''Dead End is a [[Decepticon]] from a [[Timelines (franchise)|Timelines]] addition to the [[Transformers Animated (franchise)|Animated]] [[continuity family]].''

[[Image:DeadEndAnimated.jpg|right|thumb|200px|''I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked'']]
'''Dead End''' has [[facial hair]] that is fabulous. The other [[Stunticon (Animated)|Stunticon]]s are probably jealous. Their attentions would be wasted on Dead End, because he's too busy being a depressing beat poet. <ref>[http://twitter.com/#!/DerrickJWyatt/status/30788614854017024 Derrick J Wyatt's Twitter]</ref>

{{TOCclear}}
==Fiction==
{{comingsoon}}

==Toys==
===Timelines===
[[Image:Animated Dead End Toy.JPG|right|thumb|300px|Because there wasn't an ''Animated'' Sunstreaker toy to redeco.]]
*'''Unnamed BotCon box set''' (2011)
**''Accessories'': 2 tailpipe/nunchuks

: Dead End is a [[redeco]] of Deluxe Class [[Transformers Animated (toyline)|''Animated'']] [[Jazz (Animated)#Toys|Jazz]], transforming into a street racer very dimly resembling a tricked-out Porsche. His side-pipes detach to form a pair of nunchuk weapons. He will only be available as part of the [[BotCon 2011]] box set, which also included [[Motormaster (Animated)|Motormaster]], [[Wildrider (Animated)|Wildrider]], [[Drag Strip (Animated)|Drag Strip]], and [[Breakdown (Animated)|Breakdown]].

{{comingsoontoy}}
{{-}}

==Notes==
* Dead End was the first toy to be revealed for the BotCon 2011 set, on [[January 27]], 2011. The toy was put up on the convention website, followed shortly by his [[character model]] on BotCon's Twitter feed.
* Dead End being a Jazz redeco may have its roots in the original series episode ''[[Masquerade]]'', wherein [[Jazz (G1)|Jazz]] was disguised as [[Dead End (G1)|Dead End]] with camouflage paint.

==References==
<references/>

[[Category: Animated Decepticons]]
[[Category: Convention exclusives]]
[[Category: Stunticons]]

User talk:Khajidha/archive

2011-01-23T11:12:15Z

-Blackout-: /* BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! */ new section

==Stop==

We include the foreign titles so as to make the foreign spellings available. We strive to be as informative as possible and whether the foriegn words translate the same as the English titles is immaterial. We want that info present. So please stop removing information from the pages. If it upsets you that much, then let a discussion actually progress in the talk pages first, before going on a massive info-deleting spree. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 01:28, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

: I thought I was following the example set on the Revenge of the Fallen talk page. There, Walky had stated that foreign titles shouldn't be listed if they were simply a direct translation. I thought that was the consensus and was simply trying to catch examples that had fallen through the cracks. Apparently I was wrong, and I apologize for acting prematurely. Perhaps it is time to examine this policy. I will, of course, follow any decision made. [[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 14:28, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

==Primes==
Dear Khajidha,
I believe you have made an error in your statement "(→Notes: Nexus prime is one of the 13, not the lineage of primes (matrix bearers))". Right here on tfwiki.net you will find the following statements:
"They were the first Transformers, and all Primes..... In an answer in October 2009's Q&A Hasbro indicated that only seven of the 13 were Primes."
This clearly suggests that since Forest Lee had claimed Nexus to be a Prime and that there exists exactly seven "spirit guides" and that these must therefore be the seven aforesaid Primes, THEN Nexus Prime must be one of these seven "spirit guide" Primes. Can you disprove this by logic?
Sincerely, P.C. -{{unsigned|Deszarasu}} 00:31, 2 August 2010 (EDT)
:The spirit guides from Five Faces of Darkness are seven holders of the Matrix of Leadership before Rodimus Prime. The fact that there are seven of them is a simple coincidence with the "seven of the [original] 13" were Primes. Of the original 13 we have Primon/Alpha Prime, Megatronus Prime/The Fallen, Vector Prime, and Nexus Prime. Only Primon is also one of the Spirit Guides, as he was also the first Matrix bearer. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 09:58, 2 August 2010 (EDT)

== Thanks ==

Merci on the spelling fix in my sandbox. [[User:JW|JW]] 12:02, 5 August 2010 (EDT)

== Megatron (Myth) ==

I am sorry, but I would like to post the fact the G1 Megatron would have named himself after the Preacon who named himself after the G1 Megatron. Is their a neater way you would prefer me to write it as, you said it was poorly written. [[User:LordDalek|LordDalek]] 10:47, 2 September 2010 (EDT)

== Transformers 3 ==

I did have a source for that, I just forgot where it was. It was revealed on TFW2005.com that on set, a pole with Megatron's head and a pole with Soundwave's head was found on set. Also, on the same website, Starscream's fate was revealed, so he must be in the movie. (I shall not reveal the fate unless asked.)[[User:LordDalek|LordDalek]] 19:54, 5 September 2010 (EDT)
:Set leaks from TFW2005 do not count as official information. Neither does some website about caps talking about what they heard happens. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:45, 5 September 2010 (EDT)
:You know, the film crew just confirmed he will be in it and what he turns into. Just saying. Please don't try to kill me Detour. I know you a reading this.[[User:LordDalek|LordDalek]] 17:36, 28 October 2010 (EDT)

== Answer ==
Agreed. --[[User:He-l-en1959|Waz-z-z-zpinator59]] 08:48, 12 September 2010 (EDT)

== Megatron comment ==

You know, I kinda thought that Kibble comment that person wrote on 2007 Megatron's leader class toy caption was kinda funny. It is true, he does have a lot of kibble. Why did you delete that? Was it because of the grammer?[[User:LordDalek|LordDalek]] 17:41, 28 October 2010 (EDT)
:The anonymous editor has not built a record of useful edits, policy is to revert. Also wasn't funny. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 18:41, 28 October 2010 (EDT)
::Whatever. I liked it, you didn't. Lets just leave it the way it is without a caption comment.[[User:LordDalek|LordDalek]] 11:39, 29 October 2010 (EDT)

== Scoop Bastard ==

Why can't I remove just that one tag? I said one thing that Megatron, Starscream and Soundwave are going to be in transformers 3 and I am automatically a scoop bastard because of one thing? So what their heads were seen on set! Who cares. Not to mention the fact that the actual wikipedia says they are in DOTM, so are you going to call them scoop bastards too? I have never done anything else and because of one thing one user doesn't like I am now a scoop bastard? What kind of crap is this? I am not removing the sign your posts thing or the spelling thing, just the thing that says I "stole" information.[[User:LordDalek|LordDalek]] 14:23, 31 October 2010 (EDT)
:You posted unverified information, that means you earned the scoop tag. The term "scoopbastard" may be unfortunate, but that is the name of the tag. What Wikipedia says is irrelevant. No official notice of them being in the movie had been released as of the time you added the information and the tag was added to your page. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 14:29, 31 October 2010 (EDT)
::So, I will just have to deal with it. Ok. Look, I can tell i have been getting on your nerves recently. I would just want to apologize for that. It's been a stressful week.[[User:LordDalek|LordDalek]] 11:40, 1 November 2010 (EDT)
:::Just make sure to keep the advice in mind in the future. After a long while (say, this time next year) you can move all of this old stuff to an archive page linked to your talk page. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:32, 1 November 2010 (EDT)
::::OK, Thanks for the help. Sorry for the trouble.[[User:LordDalek|LordDalek]] 11:31, 3 November 2010 (EDT)

== BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! ==

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Editor_XXV/Archive#20_January_2011 Enjoy]. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 06:12, 23 January 2011 (EST)

User talk:ItsWalky

2011-01-23T11:11:07Z

-Blackout-: /* Walky..... */ new section

{{preview bastard}}

--I'm deeply sorry

[[User talk:ItsWalky/2006|2006 Archives]]

[[User talk:ItsWalky/2007|2007 Archives]]

[[User talk:ItsWalky/2008|2008 Archives]]

[[User talk:ItsWalky/2009|2009 Archives]]

==Things to say to you==
[[Image:Ttoc.GIF|right|thumb|We approve this message.]]

Just some thing I've been wanting to say to David...

First off, you're a monumental asshole. You have an ego the size of a small planet and it's irritating watching you act like an important SOB when you're basically just a nobody.

Second, your webcomics aren't funny. They're boring tripe that makes Penny Arcade look good(and believe me, Penny Arcade is garbage). Cyanide and Happiness is a funny webcomic, yours is not. Your "jokes" are painful, about like watching Michael Richards yell the n-word as a routine. You don't draw a comic, you draw an opinionated blog. I'm not sure which name suits your crap better, "ShitPacked" or "ShortDicked".

Your liberalism and your love of Indiana get on my nerves. You jab at Mallard Filmore? Yeah, one shitty comic making fun of another shitty comic. Or are you just pissed that his gets in newspapers while you're JUST a webcomic? As to Indiana, I live here, and if it were up to me, the state would be walled off and none of the freaks living there allowed to interact with the rest of the planet. The state is about 3 decades behind the times. But something tells me even you know this otherwise you'd still live here. I sure as hell do not live here by choice and as soon as I can, I'm moving far away from this joke of a state.

And your brand loyalty is typical fandom crap. You have Aaron Archer's rod so far down your throat it's unreal. And Aryan fucktard Michael Bay's rod has apparently joined it. I'd say soemthing abotu Don Murphy but he was born without one. Actually, I can say something- he's Kevin "unfunny asshole" Smith with more body fat. Hasbro didn't give the film to a competent director, just a cheap one. And neither Speilberg or ILM have done anything useful in years. Give WETA, or even Tom Savini a chance and we wouldn't be getting Bionicle bots. You're afraid to not like a Hasbro product. No wonder they don't have to go out of the way to please the "fans"- you'll accept it no matter what. But hey, you personally have been sucking off incompetent British bonehead Simon Furman and his shitty stories for years. There are no gods in Transformers. Unicron was built by a monkey, little man. Furman is dog shit.

And go figure this TF wiki is a joke full of misinformation, insults or outright lies- you're a mod here. You're never right. You're more of an incorrect pompous jerkoff than Defunct is. Right, ban me from editing, as if it would somehow matter, any info you don't agree with is pulled. You only have friends because people feel sorry for you. Me, I have no need. People are a commodity to be used and their wants only get in the way of what I'm out for. Use them and drop them.

Who am I? Go look who added a note about you on Encyclopedia Dramatica's Allspark page if you're not too lazy. As well as past AS, Kalidor, FIRRIB and Hooks entries(the hooks entry especially true). Oh, and just info on white people in general and that idiotic Nintendo Wii. I'm not making it that easy for you.
: Is it my birthday? This stuff ''feeds'' me. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:19, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
: Duuuuude. Walky may be a dick, but I still ''like'' him for some inexplicable reason. You, on the other hand, are just one sore drama queen.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 17:14, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

: This is some of the most funny stuff I've seen in a while. Comedy PLATINUM. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 02:30, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

: Bwa ha ha ha ha. Priceless. I think someone needs to get off the internets for a few minutes. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 02:49, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

: Wait, you mean I didn't get drunk and write this? [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 05:47, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

: I wish lame puns happened to me. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 20:08, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Why do I get the feeling that guy has been permanently banned?[[User:Florky Man|Mr. Florky]] 15:55, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Wow, an Encyclopedia Dramatica troll. No need to be so harsh on Walky. I, too, like the Baybots, and, I happen to like Bionicle. Also, his Webcomic is one of my favorites. So, if you have nothing nice to say, never ever EVER come back here.--[[User:Dynamus Prime|Dynamus Prime]] 16:22, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

==BANNED==

What the hell did I do to warrant a ban, exactly? As far as I'm aware, I don't even think I broke any rules, and if I did, an official warning would be appropriate. I received no such warning. I was not here for trolling and you know that - you use that bullshit excuse to get people to ignore arguments you can't handle. But you, personally, who made this decision, know I'm not a troll.

This is fucking low. I had little enough respect for you down to your ranting against the fanbase, Willis, but this is a whole new level of buggery. If you're going to use your comic to rant against and discredit people you don't like, the least you can do is suck it up when people rant at you back, and not act like a control-freak child.

I really don't think you're aware of your own actions anymore.
*Do the words [[Wikipedia:WP:NPA|no personal attacks]] mean anything to you? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 00:18, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
:: Do the words "warning before ban" mean anything to you? Rulemongering doesn't justify a decision anyway, since Walky is one of the people making the rules. There were plenty of personal attacks leveled at me, but I did not report them officially.

::I really find it hard to believe that you think it's completely on a rational level of discourse to claim that the comic strip I draw is about child pornography. If I'm not mistaken about your identity, you've been banned from almost every single Transformers web board you've had an acquaintance with, and I'm only doing this place a favor by getting rid of you. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:22, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

::: That's not an excuse. I will openly admit I HAVE been banned from several forums, but only because I repeatedly opposed the staff on each and every one of them; and with good cause, they all have roughly the same problem. People bully others either into liking the movie or to agree with the kind of views you promote - and since nobody can directly attack or discredit anyone, these people(and you are) are left to their methods.
::: For your current decision to be validated, the admins of those boards, boards which are influenced in turn by your anti-fan attitude, would have to be near 100% correct in their decisions, and those decisions would have to occur within a context that would map exactly onto here. Any rational moderator does not base their decisions so much off performance on other boards, especially when it's not even a messageboard they're operating. Two different media. I have openly said I despise all active Transformers boards for their level of authoritarianism, yet level of tolerance towards the pushing of certain viewpoints.

::: Not to mention that you're still operating under the fallacy of Appeal to Majority - that alone means I shouldn't really even have to counter you.

::: And don't even use the "CHILD PORNOGRAPHY" thing as an excuse. Again, any rational moderator would warn several times before a ban, I personally reversed that edit even though it was obviously intended to be a joke as anyone reading this knows what pile'o'bile already is. You have no justification for what you did, but your ego is too big to realise you can actually do wrong with your power. You'll never admit it, but I wouldn't be surprised if some part of you is pissed that I defeated some of your ramblings, whether they were directly written by you or encouraged by you, it's still the kind of guff you normally blew, and I managed to defeat it. You, and the mods of the big sites will always have your ban buttons - but you will NEVER be able to justify your actions to me. That's how I know that I'm in the right, at least in situations like this - solidly backed justification is almost always absent.
:::: Personal attacks + deleting comments in response to you = banno --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:36, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
:::: P.S. Sign your posts. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:36, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

::::: I have never intentionally deleted comments in response to me. I just moved one recently as it was in the middle of a paragraph of text. Not to mention that happened after you banned my original IP. Personal attacks alone are not grounds enough for a ban, especially when you're doing an awful, awful lot to be mercilessly torn into.
Need I point out that once again, you are unable to defend yourself properly? When does the "You're insane?" come? Ganging up of all your little friends since a majority always means you're right?
Do you even realise what a fascist shithead you sound like? Just because you're an admin of a place doesn't give you a free pass to be a dick with it. There's a difference between what you can do and what you should do that you don't seem to have learned yet. [[User:67.159.44.88|67.159.44.88]]

: YOU BAN PEOPLE BECAUSE ****YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE

TRUTH****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111twelve FUCKING FASCIST PIGCOP NAZI WIKIPEDO '''ASSHOLE''' [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 00:32, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

:: My gosh, now that I have seen someone mock the notion, it MUST be untrue. Please, where can I learn these 1337 debating skills?

:::Dude, I've been banned from twice as many forums as you, guaranfuckingteed, but they still let me post here because I'm not as goddamn retarded as you are. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 00:34, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

:::: And can you demonstrate exactly how I'm more retarded than you? Or are you just, Walky style, dropping weighted terms to discredit someone's point of view without even trying?

:::::1. Hoop doesn't delete other people's comments on talk pages. 2. He actually signs his posts, which you've been asked to do many times, but haven't caught on. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 00:40, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

:::::: I didn't delete anything. If I did, it was an accident because someone posted right in the middle of text it wasn't meant to be in the middle of. Not signing my posts doesn't make me retarded since it's blatant when I'm saying something. --[[User:67.159.44.88]]

Actually - come to think of it, you make fun of the idea that anyone running a site can be Nazi, yet you still mention you got banned from many forums. Does that perhaps mean that you genuinely got banned for being an asshole and not opposing the staff/local clique like I did?

:''any rational moderator would warn several times before a ban''
:Not true, some things are auto-ban. I don't think you ''did'' any of them, but I'm just saying.
:Dude- you got an expedited ban because you showed no signs of contrition, argued every point, used personal insults, refused to sign your posts even when '''repeatedly asked to''' (I had to go back into history and dig out which incoherent chunks of text where yours, because the posts weren't hierarchied properly so the debate was really hard to follow. This is why signin posts is important dumbfuck.)
:And ultimately you got banned because you were making a major nuisance of yourself in ''without'' any correlating '''contribution''' to justify keeping you around. You're a negative. You edited 3 articles- Fandom, Shortpacking and Ruined Forever- and ''all' of those edits got reverted because they either flames or crappy jokes that make the articles ''worse''. Even if I were to (generously) believe you didn't intend to start a fight, you picked the 3 flamebaitiest articles you could find and masturbated across them. ''Allah forfend'' you should write an ''episode summary'' or something.
:Unrelated- Walky can Talk:Fandom be semi-protected instead of full? Loserbot isn't registered. -[[User:Derik|Derik]]01:06, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

==On an unrelated note: Thank you.==
I know this is an odd place to say it, but I figured if I only said it once, it wouldn't be a bother so here goes: Thank You. Shortpacked is hilarious, and when not laughing, I'm agreeing with alot of the statements the main character makes. (and feeling like I was the only one who noticed some of them, like the one about General Discussions.) I also noticed your a Hot Shot fan, which is also awesome. I also noticed its due to the efforts of you and other people here that the move was made from Wikia to Tfwiki, which was a good idea so I also want to say a long overdue thank you for doing that as well, and finally: thanks for doing what you can for this site, because without this site, I'd be out of the loops on Club Exclusive things, and other Misc. Transformers related content. I go here frequently for information (or lolz) and I'm quite sure not only me but many others are grateful to you and all others who help contribute to this place.--[[User:Chipmonk328|Chipmonk328]]
:Thanks, and we do our best! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:08, 4 January 2010 (EST)
==Tulsa, Oklahoma==
Sorry to bother you (I tried to avoid saying something again sense I already did the 'Thank you' earlier, but I HAD to ask about this). Had nothing better to do so I've been reading shortpacked's full archive beginning to end today. (Well I'm currently on July 6 2009 to be fair) and I noticed something that I just HAD to ask about. I've noticed once you mentioned Oklahoma. I ignored it the first time but then later you said "Tulsa". Now you got me curious, because I live in Tulsa and thus wondered what made you decide to choose to mention here of all places, sense basically nothing ever happens here. (Aside from the occasional Convention and the recent BOK center. Granted I may be moving to Florida in a few years..I really hope so. Been here my whole life and its boring) Just thought I'd ask, before curiosity drove me nuts. Keep up the good work on the comic, peace.--[[User:Chipmonk328|Chipmonk328]]

EDIT: haha on second thought..maybe I should've said this at Walkypedia..or do you even go there? (I'd assume you do.) Oh well, my mistake I guess. Hope you'll still answer my question regardless. lol--[[User:Chipmonk328|Chipmonk328]]

== WfC Starscream ==

You said: "We revert that back to Starscream every time you change it for a reason."
:Well that's just great since that is my first contribution to that page. And the picture itself says Skywarp so I was just making both consistent. I'll change the pic to Starscream as well.--[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 11:22, 14 January 2010 (EST)
:: Ah, sorry. Got you confused with Blackout, who was also changing it to Skywarp. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:28, 14 January 2010 (EST)
::: No prob. Just re-uploaded the image with starscream in the name rather than skywarp. The old one now has the delete tag. Thanks. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 11:33, 14 January 2010 (EST)

== Quick Report ==

More vandalism, on Nekomimi A/B, section animated..I think? caption didn't seem right..
I heard you're supposed to report to an Admin, right?
-[[User:SlamBolt|Danny LeFox]] 23:37, 20 January 2010 (EST)
: The caption is okay. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:10, 21 January 2010 (EST)

== Independent Wikis ==
Hello Walky. This is Archaic, webmaster of Pokémon fansite Bulbagarden, and its associated wiki Bulbapedia. I sent you an email about 2 weeks ago (to the address linked on both your webcomics) regarding an idea I've recently been playing around with of a co-operative of independent wikis. I understand that you've been rather busy recently, so I just wanted to check if you had received that email or not, and if you might be interested in contributing your thoughts to the matter? --[[User:Archaic|Archaic]] 20:24, 25 January 2010 (EST)
: I did receive it! I'm sorry for not answering swiftly. Our answer depends on how much interaction you are looking for. Part of the appeal of leaving Wikia was breaking free of the mandatory link chain to "related wikis" that they put at the bottom of our frontpage. Our frontpage is now our own. That's not something I think we're interested in. We are, though, all in favor of people starting up their own wikis instead of depending on those lying Wikia assmongers. (to coin a phrase) But, I can't speak for the people here who help maintain this wiki and how much they would be willing to lend a hand. So, uh, the answer to your question at the moment is: "I don't know?" Um. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 20:47, 25 January 2010 (EST)
::Heh, no worries. We're all fairly busy at this time of year. For now, we're going full steam ahead with a limited version of this idea, focusing specifically on wikis linked to Nintendo franchises, which we're likely to launch within a couple of weeks. Perhaps it might be easiest if I'm able to show you what we're doing there? While we're doing quite a bit of integration between the partner wikis for this limited network, I'd imagine that any more general grouping of independent wikis would have to be a lot less so, if only for logistical reasons. As I mentioned in the email, it's all fairly up in the air right now. A lot of brainstorming, but not a lot of actual action at this point. --[[User:Archaic|Archaic]] 15:15, 26 January 2010 (EST)
:::If I may weigh in... basically, while I wager most (if not all) of us are individually supportive of any wikis that break free of Wikia, when it comes to linking on this wiki we generally only stick to links that add information to our articles, such as TFU.info, Marvel Universe TF profiles, Wookieepedia and GI Joe sites for Star Wars and GI Joe crossovers, etc. So unless there's some crossover connection between Pokemon and TF that we missed, I don't see that we can help, because we don't have anything that would need a link to your wiki. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 15:35, 26 January 2010 (EST)
::::What, not even with that page you have on Pokéformers? ;) Seriously though, I think you might have misunderstood what I was suggesting. I'm not looking at a 2-way affiliation or link here. Instead, what I've been investigating is much closer to what Walky has in Blank Label Comics for his webcomics. An alliance of wikis united by a common purpose. Exactly how far one would take that is the real question. I certainly wouldn't expect a link to every wiki in such a network on the front page of any wiki in it. As you've rightly pointed out, you value the independence you've regained after breaking from Wikia, and any such network would have to be very careful to maintain that for all sites while still offering something meaningful. *shrugs* Like I said, all very much pie-in-the-sky kind of vague ideas right now, just exploring possibilities. --[[User:Archaic|Archaic]] 20:47, 26 January 2010 (EST)

:::::I don't know if you've heard, but wikia has decided to make a change (mandatorily!) that is 100 times worse than what drove you guys to a new server. I am interested in finding info on how you guys actually performed your move, and what would need to be done before, during, and after to make it work. If you could give me even a link (so that I can show others), that would be hugely helpful.
:::::If you could message me on my wikia talk page (yes, I know), that would be most appreciated. Thanks![[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 10:18, 28 September 2010 (EDT)

==Yeaaaaaaaah==
:: ''Hey, were you the [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Tales_of_the_Fallen_issue_5&diff=414380&oldid=413827 guy who called a dude a schmuck for no real reason], and so then he [http://shortpacked.livejournal.com/593224.html?thread=14980936#t14980936 quit this wiki] because he was treated like shit? You don't get a vote. Especially since you think Florida and Cuba are separated by a friggin' river. (Anyway, I vote against rhyming in the Headmasters section.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:07, 8 February 2010 (EST)''
Yes because he was considering the entry was as bare and snarky as possible (You're hardly the soul of discretion all the time yourself sir) . And remarkably, being from a good distance across the planet, I don't know where everything is situated on that side of the world so the assumption of he ran into a river instead of the atlantic ocean, while my own fault I'll admit, is fairly understandable. But if I'm not aloud to voice my opinion cause a guy you don't know told you something about another guy you don't know, then tell me now please, save me trying to vote on something again. (I'm being completely serious by the way, if that's the case, I want to know). All the best. [[User:Eire]] 01.33 Feb 09 2010 (UTC)
::: When your opinion is "the guy who created this page is a schmuck," then you're probably going to get some flak for said opinion. It's not like the page was horribly put together. It was just abbreviated and snarky. It wasn't called for. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:52, 8 February 2010 (EST)

== Guess who's back..... ==

[[User:Masterman666]]
--[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:45, 11 February 2010 (EST)
: Remind me who he is, again? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 12:54, 11 February 2010 (EST)
::[[User:Masterman555]]. Banned for flaming and using a sockpuppet. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 13:01, 11 February 2010 (EST)
:::Then bye-bye, then! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:15, 11 February 2010 (EST)

== Breakaway image caption ==

Isn't Topspin the one with no personality? (Or was it a ref to Breakaway being Mister Likes-Everyone-Nice-Guy?) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 13:13, 11 February 2010 (EST)
: Topspin doesn't like being used, and ripped Kickback's spark out of him in angry fury. That's more than Breakaway ever emoted. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:16, 11 February 2010 (EST)
::Plus, his utter devotion to Alpha Trion was also more characterization than Breakaway got. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 13:19, 11 February 2010 (EST)
:::Fair enough... it's just that since Topspin was always the one with the "No personality" cracks in his page (and the one who's profile specifically says he's had his personality and will crushed out) it seemed potentially out of place, so I figured I'd ask.
:::(Personally I admit I wouldn't claim Breakaway (who did a fair bit of pep-talking everyone) has no personality any more than Heatwave, who's equally easy-going, friendly, and optimistic, can be said to not have one, but I was more checking for possible mistakes than taste...) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 13:47, 11 February 2010 (EST)

== RE: Divebomb ==
Hup, my bad. Thanks for catching that! [[User:Ayellowbirds|Ayellowbirds]] 11:06, 22 February 2010 (EST)

== Red Alert image ==
Thanks for color correcting it, looks much better. My desktop bit the dust last week, and my netbook chokes on photoshop. [[User:Kookaburra|Kookaburra]] 01:22, 30 March 2010 (EDT)

==Mainpage logos==
I'm shocked you haven't put up BC Breakdown yet. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 16:34, 8 April 2010 (EDT)
:I just put up *a* Breakdown. Really, I'd prefer to stick to art rather than toy images. Spark was an adrenaline rush exception. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:34, 8 April 2010 (EDT)

== I can't think of a suitable title to put here right now..... ==

[[Special:Log/block&page=User:Jeysie|This seems rather uncalled for.]]

Thank you for your attention. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 13:38, 9 April 2010 (EDT)
: Maybe you should have brought it up during the twenty-four hours in which she was banned, and not like a few minutes before it expired. And it was certainly called for, considering the disrespect she was showing other users. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:15, 9 April 2010 (EDT)
::You called her a bitch. Was that not disrespectful as well? - [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 16:43, 9 April 2010 (EDT)
:::I think that was just me making an obvious point about her having talk page conversations ''entirely about other posters''. As usual, I make my points through sarcasm. Jeysie wasn't being sarcastic or trying to illustrate a greater point when she told me to stop "mouthing off." --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 17:21, 9 April 2010 (EDT)
:::I'm not upset about being banned. What I am upset about is that the reason it's so irritating trying to have a conversation with you is that you are constantly responding to people trying to make reasonable points with mocking rude responses, often ones that illustrate that the point was missed. So, I don't like ''your'' disrespectful attitude any more than you like mine.
:::Considering you actually make good points on the few occasions you turn off the mocking attitude and take the time to understand the points being made, it'd make dealing with you a whole lot less frustrating if you'd keep the attitude turned off all the time. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:57, 9 April 2010 (EDT)
::::Ahahaha Jeysie is telling me to stop having a mocking attitude! I will mark that on my Jeysie-is-condescending calendar OH WAIT THERE IS NO ROOM --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 17:21, 9 April 2010 (EDT)
:::::Can we stop this? Both of you? You're both highly devoted editors to this wiki and we don't need a long lasting feud. Pretty Please? --[[User:Bluestreak7|Bluestreak7]] 17:28, 9 April 2010 (EDT)
::::::The kids don't like it when mommy and daddy fight.... --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 17:36, 9 April 2010 (EDT)
::::::Seconded. This is time and energy better spent on working on articles, and I've seen enough from both of you to know that it would benefit the wiki greatly if you did that. -- [[User:Ayellowbirds|Ayellowbirds]] 17:40, 9 April 2010 (EDT)
:::::::If Walky drops the attitude problem, there won't ''be'' a feud, because I'll have nothing to comment on to him, which will make me very happy.
:::::::The only reason I say anything at all is because I'm tired of his attitude always making trying to discuss something on the wiki a stressful chore instead of something productive. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:44, 9 April 2010 (EDT)
::::::::This is silly. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 17:48, 9 April 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::Response to Walky: Maybe you're not aware, but I am on a different continent than you are. Different continent = different time zone = inability to respond at the same time as you Americans. And don't even TRY to shift the blame. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 05:07, 10 April 2010 (EDT)

==New bot==
Can I get a bot tag for [[User:DNAVI]] please? abates said you were the man for the job. - [[User:Magnus Maximus|Magnus Maximus]] 02:25, 15 April 2010 (EDT)

== Regarding TG Studios and the guy you banned ==

[[Talk:TG Studios|You may want to check this out.]] --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:33, 29 April 2010 (EDT)

Can you make Timelines sharkticon on wirte and put on a image ?

== Squiggles! ==

If by "squiggles", you mean "Japanese", toss me a copy of that translation, eh, my fine fellow? For the annotations, don'tcha know! :) - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 10:30, 5 July 2010 (EDT)
: In the filecard for Primal Major and Alpha Supreme, Maggie translated the two non-English characters at the end of it, which mean "Shanghai." That's all she's done (per my specific request), so I don't have anything else to tell you. :) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:35, 5 July 2010 (EDT)
::Ahh, that's still cool! I wouldn't have figured it out on my own! I have spotted at least one or two other bits of Japanese in there and was going to pester Spengler about them anyway. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 10:40, 5 July 2010 (EDT)

== King Starscream's bounty ==

So, do I get it if I turn myself in? - [[User:King Starscream|King Starscream]] 12:55, 2 August 2010 (EDT)

== Look! ==

You suck! Along with most of the other administartors on this wiki. I can't believe you treat people the way you do. I've been watching for a while, and I will tell you, that you're just an asshole! Why don't you grow up, and quit being a dick to everyone! Banning people for ridiculous reasons! Telling people their work is shit! In fact, I created this account just to confront you! GROW UP AND QUIT BEING A DICK! YOU"RE AN ASSHOLE! {{unsigned|Generations123|17:32, 11 August 2010 (EDT)}}
:The irony is staggering. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 17:40, 11 August 2010 (EDT)
:: I think this guy deserves a Shortpacked! comic in his honor.--[[Special:Contributions/65.11.250.113|65.11.250.113]] 19:26, 29 August 2010 (EDT)

== My sandboxes ==

Hiya David, I was wondering if you will take a look at my improved Primes sandbox (not that I'm suggesting to retitle the article or anything, it's just the whim of my user space). I hadn't realized Marvel never uses the number 13, as it's been years since I read "Legacy of Unicron" or "Primal Scream", one takes these things for granted now. Also, regarding Alpha Trion, I finally have a response again to yesterday's chat, I feel we can compromise on this: the only thing bugging people about him being a multiversal singularity is SG. As you suggested, we should wait: we should wait to see if Forest or Hasbro explain his actions in that continuity or if multiversal singularities don't apply to mirrorverses like SG and that Alpha is truely unique from the original Prime who's more likely than not the one from G1/RID/UT/TA/ROTF/WFC. [[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] 14:08, 12 August 2010 (EDT)

== Scan request ==

Since I can't find my copy of it at the minute, and since I know you had it out recent to scan that image of Rodimus Prime that's on the main page at the moment, might I trouble you to scan the panel from the third issue of the Marvel movie adaptation that features Hot Rod with a handful of energon sticks? On Junkion, when he's trying the universal greeting. Thanks! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 04:59, 30 September 2010 (EDT)

== Ultra Magnus ==

I think we need to rewrite the Dreamwave section. It's kind of old TFwiki there with the super-condensed summary and lack of links to individual issues. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:04, 30 September 2010 (EDT)

== Daleks ==

Listen, if you want behind the scenes proof, When the Daleks first appeared in Doctor Who, they were called Daleks, Davros calling the casing Mark 3 Travel Machine never happed until the time of the Forth Doctor. The information on the page is WRONG.
[[User:LordDalek|LordDalek]] 16:19, 16 October 2010 (EDT)

Oh, and by the way, Davros if a Doctor Who character. Detour is giving us information from fiction too. The comment is wrong.[[User:LordDalek|LordDalek]] 16:22, 16 October 2010 (EDT)

== Something that might be of interest to the TFWiki... ==

I think you'll find [http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/original-g1-scripts-designs-other-items-on-heritage-auction/20162/ this] to be rather interesting, as it may contain certain materials that would be decent additions to this Wiki. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 19:39, 8 November 2010 (EST)
: Thanks. I took some screencaps where I could. We should tell [[Jim Sorenson]] these exist and maybe he has a million dollars. (Or maybe just a hundred. Not many bids on these, and who the hell even knows this auction site exists?) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:33, 8 November 2010 (EST)
::That site had some of the live-action movie props being auctioned either last year or earlier this year, IIRC. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 22:45, 8 November 2010 (EST)
:Should I/we let him know in his [[User talk:Jimsorenson|User Talk page]] about this? --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 14:09, 9 November 2010 (EST)

==Question & request==
How come we should keep "Junkion trader"? I wouldn't know of a source that makes it a canon designation and before the article even had the noname-nickname template. So, why keep a made-up name that's no longer needed?
: Also, if you have ''The Complet Ark'', could you add an image of adult Chip Chase to his article? [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 13:15, 14 November 2010 (EST)
:: Isn't "Junkion trader" from a magazine or something? I don't think we made it up. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:43, 14 November 2010 (EST)
:::I can't say anything about magazines (though I'd wonder which magazine would bother to mention such an obscure "character"), but mostly, Derik, who made the article, had it marked as "nickname" from the start and left a reason for naming Junkion 1 "Junkion trader" on the Omniverse talk page. Altogether, I think it's not canon in any capacity. [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 13:49, 14 November 2010 (EST)
::::*clenches fist* ''Derik''!! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:50, 14 November 2010 (EST)

==Another request (Junkion related)==
I figure that before I completely lose my sight looking for Junkion models in a sea of red & random, I should ensure someone will move the Junkion articles (currently 3) I've been writing to their proper location. Would you be so kind? If the articles aren't clear enough on which model/character is described, there's a small extra description in the mainpic temapltes (that I just figured out don't show up on the actual page). Pretty please? [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 12:40, 17 November 2010 (EST)
: I don't own the Complete Ark, so it will have to wait for someone to divulge that information. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:49, 17 November 2010 (EST)
:: :( Well, I guess I could try pestering Sorenson about it. Sorry for bothering you. [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 15:55, 17 November 2010 (EST)
::: I have the Complete Ark, but I'm finding your descriptions a little vague. I think I'd need screen shots or comic panels or whatever to work out who you're talking about. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 17:06, 17 November 2010 (EST)
::::As I said, the mainpic template contains a "screenshot description" that should make it possible to track who is who. Otherwise, [[:Image:TFTM Junkions.JPG|the three most in front in order are: kisser, double-eye and mouthplate]]. [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 17:09, 17 November 2010 (EST)

== Talk:Bulkhead (Prime) ==

But every other kind of comment is allowed including swearing. The whole point of discussion pages is to discuss despite whether you think it's a waste. If it was in the wrong place then you should have said. -- [[User:Anythingspossibleforapossible|Anythingspossibleforapossible]] 09:46, 29 November 2010 (EST)
: "He looks kind of purple when he's under certain lighting" is not something that's worth discussing. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:43, 29 November 2010 (EST)

== This might silence those who question the WFC/Exodus/Prime continuity ==

We finally have [http://www.unicron.com/news_item/2462/ official word] straight from the mouth of Hasbro itself that War for Cybertron, Exodus, and Prime are indeed in the same aligned continuity. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 16:16, 8 December 2010 (EST)
:So... exactly what we had BEFORE. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 16:24, 8 December 2010 (EST)
::Yeah, but, now we can point nonbelievers to the words directly, instead of them having to just take our word for it. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 16:33, 8 December 2010 (EST)
:::So... exactly what we had BEFORE. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 16:39, 8 December 2010 (EST)
:::On this very wiki: [[Hasbro_Q%26A/September_2010:_Answers]] --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 18:06, 8 December 2010 (EST)

== I Am Sorry ==

Hey look, I am here to apologize for the crap I have been saying. I was acting like a jerk for a while to you and It has really been haunting me recently. I know I need to work on my grammer, and I actually shouldn't posting anything since I am only in my second year in High School, and to be honest, I have only been a fan of TF for 9 years. I have really been a jerk recently and I just want to have a clean start now. I hope you understand. I am sorry, in other words, for all the crap I put you and this sight through.[[User:LordDalek|LordDalek]] 14:02, 22 December 2010 (EST)

== Walky..... ==

Care to tell me why you have blocked my IP? --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 06:11, 23 January 2011 (EST)

Over-Run (PCC)

2011-01-17T07:12:47Z

-Blackout-:

{{factions|decepticon}}
:''Over-Run is a [[Decepticon]] [[Commander (PCC)|Commander]] from ''[[Power Core Combiners]]''.''

[[Image:PCC-toy SpasticStunticons.jpg|thumb|right|250px|Scandalous! Won't someone think of the British children (who'll never see this toy in stores anyway)??]]
'''Over-Run''' commands the [[Stunticon (PCC)|Stunticon]] drones. He makes British people angry.

==Toys==
===Power Core Combiners===
*'''Over-Run with Stunticons''' (Power Core Combiners 5-pack, 2011)
**''Accessories'': Race Car Drone, Tuner Drone, Armored Truck Drone, Armored Junker Drone

: Over-Run is a redeco of [[Leadfoot (PCC)|Leadfoot]], transforming into a futuristic race car and a torso mode for his four Stunticon drones to combine with. The Stunticons automatically transform from vehicles to limbs using [[Automorph Technology]] when clipped onto Over-Run, and when detached, they transform back to vehicle mode. Like all Commanders, Over-Run is also compatible with [[Mini-Con]]s.

{{comingsoontoy}}

==Notes==
*Over-Run's solicitation at online toy stores caused a storm of controversy in the Transformers [[fandom]]<ref>[http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/weird-news/2010/11/12/uk-transformers-fans-fury-over-new-character-called-spastic-86908-22711513/ UK Transformers fans' fury over new character called 'Spastic', Daily Record, November 12, 2010]</ref> due to his original name, "[[Wikipedia:spastic|Spastic]]" being used in the [[United Kingdom]], [[Australia]], and some other regions as a very derogatory word for people suffering from neurological disorders. The controversy even spread outside of the fandom to tabloid newspapers and even radio and TV comedians. The term has little pejorative impact in North America; when questioned, a [[Hasbro]] representative admitted to the company being unaware of the offensive connotation of the word in other countries, and that they had meant no offense by it. It was also noted that toy would not be made available via retail channels in Europe, including the United Kingdom. <ref>[http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/hasbros-statement-about-the-transformer-product-named-spastic/20207/ Hasbro's statement about the Transformer product named "Spastic", Seibertron.com, November 16, 2010]</ref> Nonetheless, [[Eric Siebenaler]] confirmed soon after that "Spastic" would indeed be getting a name change; perhaps a consequence of the fact that while Hasbro UK may not be selling it themselves, some UK retail chains have imported previous Power Core Combiner assortments directly from Hasbro US, and could unwittingly do the same with this one.

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Multi-component Transformers]]
[[Category: Power Core Combiners Decepticons]]
[[Category:Toy-only characters]]

Talk:Over-Run (PCC)

2011-01-17T07:10:42Z

-Blackout-: Talk:Spastic moved to Talk:Over-Run (PCC): renamed

The TFW link on Spaastic's name change is broken, and I can't find it to update the link, suggesting the news story itself has been removed. Perhaps it was inaccurate? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 17:02, 26 November 2010 (EST)
:Some other websites have reported it, so those could be citations. ([http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/18/transformer/ Here's one]) I personally, think it's accurate. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 22:34, 26 November 2010 (EST)
::That link says that Spastic will not be available in the UK. The broken link said something about Spastic's name changing everywhere. I think we need to wait and see for official news that the name will change, or if the toy is simply canceled or something. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 22:41, 26 November 2010 (EST)
:::For what it's worth, I reported the whole thing to Rich Johnston, who basically [http://www.bleedingcool.com/2010/11/23/how-journalism-works-part-95/ published my text] (with my approval) with minimal changes and a credit at the bottom. This is one article that reports the facts accurately as far as I'm concerned.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 12:02, 28 November 2010 (EST)

==White Knight==

"The controversy was picked up by tabloid newspapers in the United Kingdom, thanks to a self-appointed white knight: a UK Transformers fan who felt Hasbro should be "taught a lesson" by having the story spread to the mainstream press"

- This isn't actually true, the story made it to the papers first, in the Scottish Daily Record. I also really don't think it is appropriate to single out one person out of potentially many who complained (I personally know others who did), and at the time it wasn't known that the figure wouldn't be released outside of North America, so it was hardly 'white knighting', more a genuine concern. [[User:Blueshift|Blueshift]] 08:34, 6 January 2011 (EST)

Spastic

2011-01-17T07:10:41Z

-Blackout-: Spastic moved to Over-Run (PCC): renamed

#REDIRECT [[Over-Run (PCC)]]

Over-Run (PCC)

2011-01-17T07:10:41Z

-Blackout-: Spastic moved to Over-Run (PCC): renamed

{{factions|decepticon}}
:''Spastic is a [[Decepticon]] [[Commander (PCC)|Commander]] from ''[[Power Core Combiners]]''.''

[[Image:PCC-toy SpasticStunticons.jpg|thumb|right|250px|Scandalous! Won't someone think of the British children (who'll never see this toy in stores anyway)??]]
'''Spastic''' commands the [[Stunticon (PCC)|Stunticon]] drones. He makes British people angry.

==Toys==
===Power Core Combiners===
*'''Spastic with Stunticons''' (Power Core Combiners 5-pack, 2011)
**''Accessories'': Race Car Drone, Tuner Drone, Armored Truck Drone, Armored Junker Drone

: Spastic is a redeco of [[Leadfoot (PCC)|Leadfoot]], transforming into futuristic race car and a torso mode for his four Stunticon drones to combine with. The Stunticons automatically transform from vehicles to limbs using [[Automorph Technology]] when clipped onto Spastic, and when detached, they transform back to vehicle mode. Like all Commanders, Spastic is also compatible with [[Mini-Con]]s.

{{comingsoontoy}}

==Notes==
*Spastic's solicitation at online toy stores caused a storm of controversy in the Transformers [[fandom]]<ref>[http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/weird-news/2010/11/12/uk-transformers-fans-fury-over-new-character-called-spastic-86908-22711513/ UK Transformers fans' fury over new character called 'Spastic', Daily Record, November 12, 2010]</ref> due to the word "[[Wikipedia:spastic|spastic]]" being used in the [[United Kingdom]], [[Australia]], and some other regions as a very derogatory word for people suffering from neurological disorders. The controversy even spread outside of the fandom to tabloid newspapers and even radio and TV comedians. The term has little pejorative impact in North America; when questioned, a [[Hasbro]] representative admitted to the company being unaware of the offensive connotation of the word in other countries, and that they had meant no offense by it. It was also noted that toy would not be made available via retail channels in Europe, including the United Kingdom. <ref>[http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/hasbros-statement-about-the-transformer-product-named-spastic/20207/ Hasbro's statement about the Transformer product named "Spastic", Seibertron.com, November 16, 2010]</ref> Nonetheless, [[Eric Siebenaler]] confirmed soon after that "Spastic" would indeed be getting a name change; perhaps a consequence of the fact that while Hasbro UK may not be selling it themselves, some UK retail chains have imported previous Power Core Combiner assortments directly from Hasbro US, and could unwittingly do the same with this one.

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Multi-component Transformers]]
[[Category: Power Core Combiners Decepticons]]
[[Category:Toy-only characters]]

Goldbug (IDW)

2011-01-16T17:37:29Z

-Blackout-: /* External links */ OK, even if the toy stays, this needs to go.

{{factions|autobot}}
{{disambig3.5|the Throttlebots' leader who was never Bumblebee|the Throttlebot member who was once Bumblebee|Bumblebee (G1)|Goldbug}}

:''Goldbug is an [[Autobot]] [[Throttlebot]] from the [[IDW Generation 1 continuity|IDW]] portion of the [[Generation 1 continuity family]].''

[[Image:IDWGoldbug SpotlightMetroplex.jpg|right|thumb|250px|"How can I know others when I don't even know myself?"]]

Along with his other [[Throttlebot]] teammates, '''Goldbug''' is a proven courier officer, skilled at being able to evade the enemy to keep important data out of unauthorized hands and speed it where it needs to go.

{{quote|Let's not kid ourselves. We're scared but we're not gutless.|Goldbug|"[[Spotlight: Metroplex]]"}}
{{TOCclear}}

==Fiction==
===IDW comics continuity===
Goldbug and the Throttlebots were assigned to [[Orvus Base]], orbiting [[Salvvatan VI]], to safeguard top-secret Autobot research. Their purpose was to act as couriers in case the lab came under threat, taking the data and keeping it out of enemy hands. They had no idea what the research actually ''was,'' but that wasn't deemed essential to their job. And indeed, when an attack did come in the form of [[Sixshot]], the Throttlebots were the only ones who made it out of the station alive, the information in their sole possession. They crashed on the planet below and quickly rushed for cover, Sixshot hot on their trail.

What they found on the planet was a strangely unoccupied, [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]ian-style city with [[Energon (fuel)|energon]] reserves. But just as they were powering up, Sixshot caught up with them and demanded the information. Goldbug suggested that they might not have the information at all, then asked him if he would torture them in that case. Sixshot said he would, so Goldbug ordered the Throttlebots to scatter.

[[Image:IDWGoldbugAltmode SpotlightMetroplex.jpg|right|thumb|150px|"I have no idea who you're talking about, and why do I keep getting this guy's mail?"]]

Sixshot quickly took down half the team, even as they tried to feint and counterattack. The remaining three bantered with Sixshot and then attacked him, the battle taking them into a strange chamber where an "intruder alert" alarm began to blare. There, Sixshot shot Goldbug point-blank in the chest, and his remaining two comrades fared little better.

But just as Sixshot was about to execute [[Searchlight (G1)|Searchlight]], the city around them awakened. A giant fist smashed Sixshot, followed by a similarly-proportioned foot. Goldbug and his two companions gaped in awe at the transformed [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]], who declared his own position compromised and announced that he was going to leave and hide again. He told them where to find a shuttle and supplies, but Goldbug was indignant, asking him what kind of Autobot would abandon the dying Throttlebots. Metroplex replied that he wept for them, but his mission was more important, and with that, he left.

[[Rollbar (G1)|Rollbar]] and Searchlight, the latter carrying Goldbug, began walking back to recover their teammates. As they pondered how important Metroplex's mission must be and how lonely he surely is, the battered Sixshot stirred... {{storylink|Spotlight: Metroplex}}
{{--}}

==Toys==
===Generation 1===
[[Image:Goldbugg1toy.jpg|RIGHT|175px|thumb|]]
*'''Goldbug''' (Throttlebot, 1987/1991)
**''Japanese ID number:'' '''C-97'''

: The Goldbug toy transforms into a Volkswagen Beetle. Like all [[Throttlebot]]s, it features a pull-back motor that zips him forward in both vehicle and robot modes. In 1991, the Throttlebots were re-released in European markets as part of the "[[Classics (Europe)|Classics]]" sub-line. Goldbug was [[retool]]ed to remove the [[rubsign]] indent on his roof/chest, and the rubsign decal itself was replaced with a glossy-paper Autobot sigil.

:The toy, which predates this incarnation of the character, is an Earth mode body that differs from the Cybertronian body depicted in Goldbug's sole IDW appearance to date.

:This toy is also the [[Bumblebee (G1)|Throttlebot previously known as Bumblebee]].

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/1987/Autobot/Goldbug/goldbug.htm More information on Goldbug at TFU.info]''

==Notes==
* Goldbug owes his existence to [[IDW Publishing|IDW]] editor/writer [[Andy Schmidt]]'s decision to make the IDW version of Goldbug a [[character]] who is separate from the [[IDW Generation 1 continuity|IDW continuity's]] version of [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]]. Essentially, this Goldbug is the IDW universe's counterpart to the Goldbugs of other ''[[Generation 1 (franchise)|Generation 1]]''-based [[continuity|continuities]]... except that he and Bumblebee co-exist. That's why he got his own article. Yeah, we're still scratching our heads, too.
* Goldbug's Cybertronian [[alternate mode]] appears to be an [[:Image:Bumblebee-CyberToon.jpg|homage to Bumblebee's]], as seen on "[[More than Meets the Eye, Part 1]]".

[[Category:Throttlebots]]

Goldbug (IDW)

2011-01-15T17:36:17Z

-Blackout-: Undo revision 544215 by Starfield (Talk) Wikiality is a word made up by Stephen Colbert

{{factions|autobot}}
{{disambig3.5|the Throttlebots' leader who was never Bumblebee|the Throttlebot member who was once Bumblebee|Bumblebee (G1)|Goldbug}}

:''Goldbug is an [[Autobot]] [[Throttlebot]] from the [[IDW Generation 1 continuity|IDW]] portion of the [[Generation 1 continuity family]].''

[[Image:IDWGoldbug SpotlightMetroplex.jpg|right|thumb|250px|"How can I know others when I don't even know myself?"]]

Along with his other [[Throttlebot]] teammates, '''Goldbug''' is a proven courier officer, skilled at being able to evade the enemy to keep important data out of unauthorized hands and speed it where it needs to go.

{{quote|Let's not kid ourselves. We're scared but we're not gutless.|Goldbug|"[[Spotlight: Metroplex]]"}}
{{TOCclear}}

==Fiction==
===IDW comics continuity===
Goldbug and the Throttlebots were assigned to [[Orvus Base]], orbiting [[Salvvatan VI]], to safeguard top-secret Autobot research. Their purpose was to act as couriers in case the lab came under threat, taking the data and keeping it out of enemy hands. They had no idea what the research actually ''was,'' but that wasn't deemed essential to their job. And indeed, when an attack did come in the form of [[Sixshot]], the Throttlebots were the only ones who made it out of the station alive, the information in their sole possession. They crashed on the planet below and quickly rushed for cover, Sixshot hot on their trail.

What they found on the planet was a strangely unoccupied, [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]ian-style city with [[Energon (fuel)|energon]] reserves. But just as they were powering up, Sixshot caught up with them and demanded the information. Goldbug suggested that they might not have the information at all, then asked him if he would torture them in that case. Sixshot said he would, so Goldbug ordered the Throttlebots to scatter.

[[Image:IDWGoldbugAltmode SpotlightMetroplex.jpg|right|thumb|150px|"I have no idea who you're talking about, and why do I keep getting this guy's mail?"]]

Sixshot quickly took down half the team, even as they tried to feint and counterattack. The remaining three bantered with Sixshot and then attacked him, the battle taking them into a strange chamber where an "intruder alert" alarm began to blare. There, Sixshot shot Goldbug point-blank in the chest, and his remaining two comrades fared little better.

But just as Sixshot was about to execute [[Searchlight (G1)|Searchlight]], the city around them awakened. A giant fist smashed Sixshot, followed by a similarly-proportioned foot. Goldbug and his two companions gaped in awe at the transformed [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]], who declared his own position compromised and announced that he was going to leave and hide again. He told them where to find a shuttle and supplies, but Goldbug was indignant, asking him what kind of Autobot would abandon the dying Throttlebots. Metroplex replied that he wept for them, but his mission was more important, and with that, he left.

[[Rollbar (G1)|Rollbar]] and Searchlight, the latter carrying Goldbug, began walking back to recover their teammates. As they pondered how important Metroplex's mission must be and how lonely he surely is, the battered Sixshot stirred... {{storylink|Spotlight: Metroplex}}
{{--}}

==Notes==
* Goldbug owes his existence to [[IDW Publishing|IDW]] editor/writer [[Andy Schmidt]]'s decision to make the IDW version of Goldbug a [[character]] who is separate from the [[IDW Generation 1 continuity|IDW continuity's]] version of [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]]. Essentially, this Goldbug is the IDW universe's counterpart to the Goldbugs of other ''[[Generation 1 (franchise)|Generation 1]]''-based [[continuity|continuities]]... except that he and Bumblebee co-exist. That's why he got his own article. Yeah, we're still scratching our heads, too.
* Goldbug's Cybertronian [[alternate mode]] appears to be an [[:Image:Bumblebee-CyberToon.jpg|homage to Bumblebee's]], as seen on "[[More than Meets the Eye, Part 1]]".

[[Category:Throttlebots]]

Galvatron's Air Attack

2011-01-15T16:15:52Z

-Blackout-: /* Summary */

{{Comicstory
|seriesissue=[[Ladybird Books]]
|prev=Laserbeak's Fury
|next=Decepticon Hideout
|title=Galvatron's Air Attack
|image=Galvatronsairattack.jpg
|caption=''When Chandeliers Attack'', next on FOX!
|publisher=Ladybird Books
|date=1986
|coverdate=
|written by=[[John Grant]]
|art by=[[Richard Dunn]]
|continuity=Ladybird Books continuity
}}

'''The Decepticons have a mysterious new way to track the Autobots' movements, and the heroic robots must find out what it is before they run out of the resources they need to keep themselves functional.'''

==Summary==

Supplies of [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertronian]] materials like [[cybernite]] necessary to repair damaged [[Autobot|Autobots]] are running low in the city of [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]], and the Autobots are unable to return to Cybertron to replenish them. Kup recalls a battle fought in a valley on Earth that left wreckage strewn all around, and with Ultra Magnus’s permission, leads a squad to investigate, hoping to find any useful materials. While searching, however, they are attacked by a squad of [[Decepticon]] jets, but manage to force them back by firing upon them from the narrowest portion of the gorge, where the flying Decepticons cannot reach.

Concerned as to how the Decepticons became aware of their movements, Ultra Magnus has the Aerialbots investigate the possibility of a new Decepticon surveillance system. The team fail to locate anything from the air, and merge into Superion to gain even greater height. Reaching the fringes of space, the super robot picks up a faint radar signal—the Aerialbots have just discovered [[Decepticon Space Station Argon]], one of three Decepticon spy satellites able to view the entire Earth at once.

[[Image:Galvatron_teesh.jpg|left|thumb|This is bad dentistry.]]

Ten hours later, Soundwave completes and activates the station’s [[refraction shield]] to conceal it from prying Autobot eyes, specifically those of Cosmos, who has been dispatched into space to investigate. Cosmos does, however, detect the radio transmissions running between the stations and the Decepticon base. Using Cosmos’s recordings, Hound is able to deduce what the villains are up to, and Kup and Spike put together a plan to stop them.

After ten days of construction work, the Autobots complete an electrical transmitter that unleashes a megavolt charge into the atmosphere, generating a display of Northern Lights that blows out the Decepticons’ radio transmissions. Hound poses as Soundwave and sends transmissions to space stations Argon, [[Decepticon Space Station Krypton|Krypton]] and [[Decepticon Space Station Xenon|Xenon]], instructing them to relocate to new co-ordinates. Galvatron can only watch as the three space stations, invisible to each other due to their refraction shields, collide and explode, raining down all the Cybertronian materials the Autobots will need for a long time.

==Featured characters==

{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
*[[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]] (1)
*[[Hot Rod (G1)|Hot Rod]] (2)
*[[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] (3)
*[[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] (4)
*[[Kup (G1)|Kup]] (5)
*[[Hoist (G1)|Hoist]] (6)
*[[Grapple]] (7)
*[[Silverbolt (G1)|Silverbolt]] (14)
*[[Slingshot]] (16)
*[[Skydive (G1 Aerialbot)|Skydive]] (17)
*[[Fireflight (G1)|Fireflight]] (18)
*[[Air Raid (G1)|Air Raid]] (19)
*[[Superion (G1)|Superion]] (20)
*[[Cosmos (G1)|Cosmos]] (23)
*[[Hound (G1)|Hound]] (24)
*[[Huffer (G1)|Huffer]] (25)
*[[Swerve (G1)|Swerve]] (26)

|c2=
*[[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] (9)
*[[Thrust (G1)|Thrust]] (10)
*[[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]] (11)
*[[Scourge (G1)|Scourge]] (12)
*[[Dirge (G1)|Dirge]] (13)
*[[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]] (15)
*[[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]] (21)
*[[Blitzwing (G1)|Blitzwing]] (22)

|c3=
*[[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Spike Witwicky]] (8)
|}}

==Notes==

===Errors===

*Kup speaks of a battle on Earth that he participated in when he was a “young Autobot,” which really doesn’t make any sense at all.
*As in previous Ladybird books, the Autobots place a heavy emphasis on keeping their existence secret from humans, to the extent that they only leave to conduct their search of the valley after dark. And yet... they’re now living in Metroplex. A Transformer city isn’t going to draw some attention?
*In one illustration the Aerialbots look a lot like the Decepticon jets from behind.

===Transformers references===
*Beginning with this book, [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] and [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] are replaced as leaders of their respective factions by Ultra Magnus and Galvatron. While the story itself occurs when they are already established as commanders, the introductory blurb prior to the title page explain this shift in command with the following:

:''"Leaders come and go. Galvatron travels back from the 21st century to take over from Megatron, commander of the Decepticons. Then the strange disappearance of Optimus Prime leaves the Autobots without a leader, and Ultra Magnus arrives from Cybertron to take his place, as the Autobots’ new commander."''

:These events are taken from the early stages of the [[The Transformers (Marvel comic)#Marvel UK|Marvel UK]] serial, ''[[Target: 2006]]''. Things were back to normal by the time that story ended, of course, but that doesn’t seem to have happened in the Ladybird universe. Note, however, that no explanation is offered for where the other new post-1984 characters come from, having not appeared in any of the previous books.

===Misellaneous trivia===

*This story was also released as a [[Talk and Read]] audiobook which included music and sound effects.
*Dirge is depicted with a non-conehead, in toy instruction accurate form.
*In this story Cyclonus and Scourge are treated as two new Decepticon jets under Starscream's command, seemingly replacing Thundercracker and Skywarp.

==External links==
* [http://video.yahoo.com/watch/5814657/15217609 Mathew's fan-made slideshow w/ Galvatron's Air Attack audio and page scans on ''Yahoo!'' video]

[[Category: Audiobooks]]
[[Category: Storybooks]]
[[Category: Generation 1]]

Flame (Gaiacross)

2011-01-15T10:45:15Z

-Blackout-: wrong name + spaces are unnecessary in category links

{{disambig3|Flame}}
:''Flame is an [[Autobot]] (presumably) from the [[Generation 1 (franchise)|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]] (presumably).''
{{mainpic}}
'''Flame''' (フレイム, ''fureimu'') puts out the red stuff with the wet stuff.

==Toys==
* '''Flame''' (Candy toy, 2011)
** ''ID number'': '''2'''

: Flame is a snap-together [[candy toy]] model kit produced by [[Kabaya]], coming in an individual box packed with a stick of (chalky) gum. He transforms from a robot into a pumper/ladder fire truck of currently-undetermined make. He can combine with any of his teammates to form the upper or lower body of a two-robot combination (it's highly likely his "default" is as the upper body of a combined mode with [[Crush]]), plus he forms the left arm to their super-robot form [[Gaia Cross]].

{{comingsoontoy}}

==Notes==
* At this point, the entire Gaia Cross team's fictional setup is unknown. Until we see what—if any—material comes along featuring them, it's pretty conjectural.

[[Category:Autobots]]
[[Category:Candy toys]]
[[Category:Combiners]]
[[Category:Japanese-original characters]]
[[Category:Toy-only characters]]

Goldbug (IDW)

2011-01-15T10:37:56Z

-Blackout-: This doesn't apply either.

{{factions|autobot}}
{{disambig3.5|the Throttlebots' leader who was never Bumblebee|the Throttlebot member who was once Bumblebee|Bumblebee (G1)|Goldbug}}

:''Goldbug is an [[Autobot]] [[Throttlebot]] from the [[IDW Generation 1 continuity|IDW]] portion of the [[Generation 1 continuity family]].''

[[Image:IDWGoldbug SpotlightMetroplex.jpg|right|thumb|250px|"How can I know others when I don't even know myself?"]]

Along with his other [[Throttlebot]] teammates, '''Goldbug''' is a proven courier officer, skilled at being able to evade the enemy to keep important data out of unauthorized hands and speed it where it needs to go.

{{quote|Let's not kid ourselves. We're scared but we're not gutless.|Goldbug|"[[Spotlight: Metroplex]]"}}
{{TOCclear}}

==Fiction==
===IDW comics continuity===
Goldbug and the Throttlebots were assigned to [[Orvus Base]], orbiting [[Salvvatan VI]], to safeguard top-secret Autobot research. Their purpose was to act as couriers in case the lab came under threat, taking the data and keeping it out of enemy hands. They had no idea what the research actually ''was,'' but that wasn't deemed essential to their job. And indeed, when an attack did come in the form of [[Sixshot]], the Throttlebots were the only ones who made it out of the station alive, the information in their sole possession. They crashed on the planet below and quickly rushed for cover, Sixshot hot on their trail.

What they found on the planet was a strangely unoccupied, [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]ian-style city with [[Energon (fuel)|energon]] reserves. But just as they were powering up, Sixshot caught up with them and demanded the information. Goldbug suggested that they might not have the information at all, then asked him if he would torture them in that case. Sixshot said he would, so Goldbug ordered the Throttlebots to scatter.

[[Image:IDWGoldbugAltmode SpotlightMetroplex.jpg|right|thumb|150px|"I have no idea who you're talking about, and why do I keep getting this guy's mail?"]]

Sixshot quickly took down half the team, even as they tried to feint and counterattack. The remaining three bantered with Sixshot and then attacked him, the battle taking them into a strange chamber where an "intruder alert" alarm began to blare. There, Sixshot shot Goldbug point-blank in the chest, and his remaining two comrades fared little better.

But just as Sixshot was about to execute [[Searchlight (G1)|Searchlight]], the city around them awakened. A giant fist smashed Sixshot, followed by a similarly-proportioned foot. Goldbug and his two companions gaped in awe at the transformed [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]], who declared his own position compromised and announced that he was going to leave and hide again. He told them where to find a shuttle and supplies, but Goldbug was indignant, asking him what kind of Autobot would abandon the dying Throttlebots. Metroplex replied that he wept for them, but his mission was more important, and with that, he left.

[[Rollbar (G1)|Rollbar]] and Searchlight, the latter carrying Goldbug, began walking back to recover their teammates. As they pondered how important Metroplex's mission must be and how lonely he surely is, the battered Sixshot stirred... {{storylink|Spotlight: Metroplex}}
{{--}}

==Notes==
* Goldbug owes his existence to [[IDW Publishing|IDW]] editor/writer [[Andy Schmidt]]'s decision to make the IDW version of Goldbug a [[character]] who is separate from the [[IDW Generation 1 continuity|IDW continuity's]] version of [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]]. Essentially, this Goldbug is the IDW universe's counterpart to the Goldbugs of other ''[[Generation 1 (franchise)|Generation 1]]''-based [[continuity|continuities]]... except that he and Bumblebee co-exist. That's why he got his own article. Yeah, we're still scratching our heads, too.
* Goldbug's Cybertronian [[alternate mode]] appears to be an [[:Image:Bumblebee-CyberToon.jpg|homage to Bumblebee's]], as seen on "[[More than Meets the Eye, Part 1]]".

[[Category:Throttlebots]]

Goldbug (IDW)

2011-01-15T10:22:22Z

-Blackout-: Enough of this nonsense. The toy can go back if/when it is repurposed as him. This wiki does not operate on the Stephen Colbert principle of "if enough people agree with your edit, it becomes truth".

{{factions|autobot}}
{{disambig3.5|the Throttlebots' leader who was never Bumblebee|the Throttlebot member who was once Bumblebee|Bumblebee (G1)|Goldbug}}

:''Goldbug is an [[Autobot]] [[Throttlebot]] from the [[IDW Generation 1 continuity|IDW]] portion of the [[Generation 1 continuity family]].''

[[Image:IDWGoldbug SpotlightMetroplex.jpg|right|thumb|250px|"How can I know others when I don't even know myself?"]]

Along with his other [[Throttlebot]] teammates, '''Goldbug''' is a proven courier officer, skilled at being able to evade the enemy to keep important data out of unauthorized hands and speed it where it needs to go.

{{quote|Let's not kid ourselves. We're scared but we're not gutless.|Goldbug|"[[Spotlight: Metroplex]]"}}
{{TOCclear}}

==Fiction==
===IDW comics continuity===
Goldbug and the Throttlebots were assigned to [[Orvus Base]], orbiting [[Salvvatan VI]], to safeguard top-secret Autobot research. Their purpose was to act as couriers in case the lab came under threat, taking the data and keeping it out of enemy hands. They had no idea what the research actually ''was,'' but that wasn't deemed essential to their job. And indeed, when an attack did come in the form of [[Sixshot]], the Throttlebots were the only ones who made it out of the station alive, the information in their sole possession. They crashed on the planet below and quickly rushed for cover, Sixshot hot on their trail.

What they found on the planet was a strangely unoccupied, [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]ian-style city with [[Energon (fuel)|energon]] reserves. But just as they were powering up, Sixshot caught up with them and demanded the information. Goldbug suggested that they might not have the information at all, then asked him if he would torture them in that case. Sixshot said he would, so Goldbug ordered the Throttlebots to scatter.

[[Image:IDWGoldbugAltmode SpotlightMetroplex.jpg|right|thumb|150px|"I have no idea who you're talking about, and why do I keep getting this guy's mail?"]]

Sixshot quickly took down half the team, even as they tried to feint and counterattack. The remaining three bantered with Sixshot and then attacked him, the battle taking them into a strange chamber where an "intruder alert" alarm began to blare. There, Sixshot shot Goldbug point-blank in the chest, and his remaining two comrades fared little better.

But just as Sixshot was about to execute [[Searchlight (G1)|Searchlight]], the city around them awakened. A giant fist smashed Sixshot, followed by a similarly-proportioned foot. Goldbug and his two companions gaped in awe at the transformed [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]], who declared his own position compromised and announced that he was going to leave and hide again. He told them where to find a shuttle and supplies, but Goldbug was indignant, asking him what kind of Autobot would abandon the dying Throttlebots. Metroplex replied that he wept for them, but his mission was more important, and with that, he left.

[[Rollbar (G1)|Rollbar]] and Searchlight, the latter carrying Goldbug, began walking back to recover their teammates. As they pondered how important Metroplex's mission must be and how lonely he surely is, the battered Sixshot stirred... {{storylink|Spotlight: Metroplex}}
{{--}}

==Notes==
* Goldbug owes his existence to [[IDW Publishing|IDW]] editor/writer [[Andy Schmidt]]'s decision to make the IDW version of Goldbug a [[character]] who is separate from the [[IDW Generation 1 continuity|IDW continuity's]] version of [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]]. Essentially, this Goldbug is the IDW universe's counterpart to the Goldbugs of other ''[[Generation 1 (franchise)|Generation 1]]''-based [[continuity|continuities]]... except that he and Bumblebee co-exist. That's why he got his own article. Yeah, we're still scratching our heads, too.
* Goldbug's Cybertronian [[alternate mode]] appears to be an [[:Image:Bumblebee-CyberToon.jpg|homage to Bumblebee's]], as seen on "[[More than Meets the Eye, Part 1]]".

==External links==
*[http://www.ntfa.net/universe/english/index.php?act=view&char=Goldbug Goldbug's Universe profile at NTFA.net]

[[Category:Throttlebots]]

Minotoron

2011-01-15T10:16:11Z

-Blackout-:

{{factions|decepticon}}
:''The Minotorons are [[Decepticon]] creations from the "[[Wings of Honor continuity|Wings of Honor]]" portion of the [[Generation 1 continuity family]].''

The '''Minotorons''' are part-Cybertronian, part-mechanimals created by [[Rage]].

==Fiction==
===Timelines: Wings of Honor continuity===
Rage and the [[Stormtrooper (G1)|Stormtrooper]]s were being pursued by an [[Elite Guard]] team, so when they reached their mobile base, the [[Metrotitan (Zone)|Metrotitan]], they unleashed [[Buffalo Dump]] and three other Minotorons. The four creatures stamped down Metrotitan's entrance ramp and Rage used a speaker attached to Buffalo Dump to introduce his creations to the confused [[Autobot]]s. The [[Combaticon (G1)|Combaticon]]s opened fire, but quickly discovered that that the Minotorons' hides were thick enough to simply deflect the lasers. After dodging the creatures, [[Dion]] remembered a doohicky that [[Swindle (G1)|Swindle]] happened to have that might help. Said device's sonic emissions repelled the Minotorons, which headed back towards the Metrotitan. Dion, [[Blast Off (G1)|Blast Off]] and Swindle hid in the creatures' truck beds, allowing them to sneak into the Decepticon fortress and open the doors for their fellows outside. {{storylink|Flames of Yesterday}}

[[Category:Monsters]]
[[Category:Prose-only characters]]
[[Category:Timelines characters]]

Minotoron

2011-01-15T10:15:41Z

-Blackout-: New page: {{factions|decepticon}} :''The Minotorons are Decepticon creations from the "Wings of Honor" portion of the Generation 1 continuity family.'' The '''...

{{factions|decepticon}}
:''The Minotorons are [[Decepticon]] creations from the "[[Wings of Honor continuity|Wings of Honor]]" portion of the [[Generation 1 continuity family]].''

The '''Minotorons''' are cybernetic mechanimals created by [[Rage]].

==Fiction==
===Timelines: Wings of Honor continuity===
Rage and the [[Stormtrooper (G1)|Stormtrooper]]s were being pursued by an [[Elite Guard]] team, so when they reached their mobile base, the [[Metrotitan (Zone)|Metrotitan]], they unleashed [[Buffalo Dump]] and three other Minotorons. The four creatures stamped down Metrotitan's entrance ramp and Rage used a speaker attached to Buffalo Dump to introduce his creations to the confused [[Autobot]]s. The [[Combaticon (G1)|Combaticon]]s opened fire, but quickly discovered that that the Minotorons' hides were thick enough to simply deflect the lasers. After dodging the creatures, [[Dion]] remembered a doohicky that [[Swindle (G1)|Swindle]] happened to have that might help. Said device's sonic emissions repelled the Minotorons, which headed back towards the Metrotitan. Dion, [[Blast Off (G1)|Blast Off]] and Swindle hid in the creatures' truck beds, allowing them to sneak into the Decepticon fortress and open the doors for their fellows outside. {{storylink|Flames of Yesterday}}

[[Category:Monsters]]
[[Category:Prose-only characters]]
[[Category:Timelines characters]]

Heath Blaisedale

2011-01-14T16:56:55Z

-Blackout-: /* Colorforms audiobooks continuity */

:''Heath Blaisedale is a human from the [[Generation 1 (franchise)|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''

{{mainpic}}
Doctor '''Heath Blaisedale''' is a brilliant scientist with the voice and personality of a certified airhead.

{{bigquote|Yes, well, uhm... I don't think I should get in the middle of a war right now.|Doctor Heath Blaisedale}}

==Fiction==
===Colorforms audiobooks continuity===
:''Voice actress:'' ???
The [[Autobot]]s found themselves in hot water when they were low on fuel with a [[Decepticon]] attack coming up. So, [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] ordered [[Cliffjumper (G1)|Cliffjumper]] to make contact with and collect Doctor Heath Blaisedale, whom he heard had found a way to convert solar power into an energy source richer and safer than nuclear energy.

At that time, Blaisedale had just received the "The President's Award for Outstanding Scientific Breakthrough". On her way home, Cliffjumper stalked her in [[Alternate mode|altmode]]. At first, Blaisedale ''couldn't figure out'' why anyone would follow ''her'', then decided "Cliffjumper" was just another creep, pulled over and marched up to him to tell him to back off. To her surprise, there wasn't a driver, and to her even bigger surprise, the car suddenly [[Transformation|turned]] into a robot. Cliffjumper introduced himself and explained the situation, asking her to come with him. Blaisedale understandably had her doubts on getting involved in a war, so Cliffjumper opted to abduct her. Blaisedale put up a good fight, but obviously was no match for the Autobot. However, just as she had been maneuvered inside Cliffjumper, Ravage attacked the two with the intent of bringing Blaisedale to [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]]. Cliffjumper [[glass gas]]sed him, and Blaisedale opted to come with him voluntarily.

Back at Autobot Headquarters, Optimus Prime explained the situation to Blaisedale again and apologized for Cliffjumper's behavior. Blaisedale accepted the apologies and offered to bring the Autobots to the solar reactor, a facility she had designed for the collection of solar power. Just as the Autobots and Blaisedale were about to leave, [[Windcharger (G1)|Windcharger]] came in to report that the [[Seeker (body-type)|Deceptiplanes]] were on their way to take over the solar reactor. The group rushed to the facility, arriving there before the Decepticons. Blaisedale arranged for the Autobots to be recharged, allowing them to fight off the Deceptiplanes when they showed up mere moments later.

Despite the success, the Autobots knew that the Decepticons would return for the solar reactor. Their prediction was proven correct even before all of them had gotten a chance to recharge. Megatron sent Ravage to abduct Blaisedale, forcing a large portion of the Autobots from defending the reactor in order to save her. Blaisedale was eventually retrieved, but not before the battle had taken its toll on the facility; When finally the Decepticons retreated, little more than ruins remained. Doctor Blaisedale was devastated, but she appreciated Optimus Prime's offer that the Autobots would help rebuild the reactor. In return, she offered to contact the [[President of the United States|President]] to tell him about the Autobots and their fight, so that perhaps they could receive a permanent power supply.

With all that agreed on, Blaisedale wished to go home and asked if "her friend Cliff" was available to give her a ride. He was. {{storylink|Sun Raid}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Blaisedale, Heath}}
[[Category:Fiction-only characters]]
[[Category:Generation 1 humans]]
[[Category:Scientists]]

Heath Blaisedale

2011-01-14T16:56:38Z

-Blackout-:

:''Heath Blaisedale is a human from the [[Generation 1 (franchise)|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''

{{mainpic}}
Doctor '''Heath Blaisedale''' is a brilliant scientist with the voice and personality of a certified airhead.

{{bigquote|Yes, well, uhm... I don't think I should get in the middle of a war right now.|Doctor Heath Blaisedale}}

==Fiction==
===Colorforms audiobooks continuity===
:''Voice actress:'' ???
The [[Autobot]]s found themselves in hot water when they were low on fuel with a [[Decepticon]] attack coming up. So, [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] ordered [[Cliffjumper (G1)|Cliffjumper]] to make contact with and collect Doctor Heath Blaisedale, whom he had heard had found a way to convert solar power into an energy source richer and safer than nuclear energy.

At that time, Blaisedale had just received the "The President's Award for Outstanding Scientific Breakthrough". On her way home, Cliffjumper stalked her in [[Alternate mode|altmode]]. At first, Blaisedale ''couldn't figure out'' why anyone would follow ''her'', then decided "Cliffjumper" was just another creep, pulled over and marched up to him to tell him to back off. To her surprise, there wasn't a driver, and to her even bigger surprise, the car suddenly [[Transformation|turned]] into a robot. Cliffjumper introduced himself and explained the situation, asking her to come with him. Blaisedale understandably had her doubts on getting involved in a war, so Cliffjumper opted to abduct her. Blaisedale put up a good fight, but obviously was no match for the Autobot. However, just as she had been maneuvered inside Cliffjumper, Ravage attacked the two with the intent of bringing Blaisedale to [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]]. Cliffjumper [[glass gas]]sed him, and Blaisedale opted to come with him voluntarily.

Back at Autobot Headquarters, Optimus Prime explained the situation to Blaisedale again and apologized for Cliffjumper's behavior. Blaisedale accepted the apologies and offered to bring the Autobots to the solar reactor, a facility she had designed for the collection of solar power. Just as the Autobots and Blaisedale were about to leave, [[Windcharger (G1)|Windcharger]] came in to report that the [[Seeker (body-type)|Deceptiplanes]] were on their way to take over the solar reactor. The group rushed to the facility, arriving there before the Decepticons. Blaisedale arranged for the Autobots to be recharged, allowing them to fight off the Deceptiplanes when they showed up mere moments later.

Despite the success, the Autobots knew that the Decepticons would return for the solar reactor. Their prediction was proven correct even before all of them had gotten a chance to recharge. Megatron sent Ravage to abduct Blaisedale, forcing a large portion of the Autobots from defending the reactor in order to save her. Blaisedale was eventually retrieved, but not before the battle had taken its toll on the facility; When finally the Decepticons retreated, little more than ruins remained. Doctor Blaisedale was devastated, but she appreciated Optimus Prime's offer that the Autobots would help rebuild the reactor. In return, she offered to contact the [[President of the United States|President]] to tell him about the Autobots and their fight, so that perhaps they could receive a permanent power supply.

With all that agreed on, Blaisedale wished to go home and asked if "her friend Cliff" was available to give her a ride. He was. {{storylink|Sun Raid}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Blaisedale, Heath}}
[[Category:Fiction-only characters]]
[[Category:Generation 1 humans]]
[[Category:Scientists]]

Movie Prequel issue 3

2011-01-14T16:50:26Z

-Blackout-: /* Synopsis */

{{comicstory|seriesissue=[[Movie Prequel|''Movie Prequel'']] #3
|prev=Movie Prequel issue 2
|next=Movie Prequel issue 4
|title=
|image=Prime Directives 3a.jpg
|caption=Bumblebee is '''not''' a [[Beachcomber (G1)|tree-hugger]]
|publisher=[[IDW Publishing]]
|date=[[April 11]], [[2007]]
|story=[[Chris Ryall]]
|script by=[[Simon Furman]] and Chris Ryall
|art by=[[Don Figueroa]]
|colors by=[[Josh Burcham]], [[Mark Bristow]]
|letters by=[[Robbie Robbins]]
|edits by=[[Dan Taylor (IDW)|Dan Taylor]]
|continuity=[[Movie continuity]]
}}

'''They have arrived.'''

== Synopsis ==
In [[1924]], [[Archibald Witwicky|Captain Witwicky]] is held in the [[Psychopathic Institute for the Long-Term Insane]] (no, really. That's what it's called). He keeps raving about a war that will come to our world.

In [[1935]], one of the First Seven is shown the new [[Hoover Dam]], including the new cryoblocks for [[Megatron (Movie)|Mega-Man]]. [[The old man]] is retiring soon, and wants one last look at the [[AllSpark|cube]]. An aide asks if the old man believes that more of them will come. He does, saying that it's not a matter of "if", but "when".

In [[2003]], Sector Seven makes an attempt to secure [[Non-Biological Extraterrestrial|N.B.E.-02]] at his [[Virginia]] landing site, but ten minutes after landing, he is already gone. Realizing that the highway is nearby, the agents inform their superiors that the target is mobile. Heading for their mobile command center, the agents realize that [[Bumblebee (Movie)|N.B.E.-02]] scanned a [[1978]] [[Chevrolet|Chevy]] Camaro, then Transformed.

In [[Tranquility]], [[Ron Witwicky]] is showing his young son [[Sam Witwicky|Sam]] his family legacy: the personal effects of Archibald Witwicky. Sam is not very impressed, and Ron takes his dismissal of Captain Witwicky's successes very poorly. In [[St. Louis]], Bumblebee gains access to the internet and looks up "Extraterrestrial sightings". Captain Witwicky's claims immediately attract his attention.

Meanwhile, [[Seymour Simmons|Agent Simmons]] has been brought in to oversee the capture of N.B.E.-02. Simmons has a box containing energy similar to that given off by the Cube. Realizing that N.B.E.-02 is searching for the Cube, Sector Seven plans to set a trap for the N.B.E. when he detects the energy signature. Simmons is confident, saying that they've been preparing for this for over a century, and that nothing can possibly derail their plans.

Nothing except for [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]], [[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]], and [[Barricade (Movie)|Barricade]], that is, who just arrived on [[Mars (planet)|Mars]] and are eager to kill something...
{{-}}

==Featured characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
* [[Ratchet (Movie)|Ratchet]] (2)
* [[Jazz (Movie)|Jazz]] (6)
* [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]] (7)
|c2=
* [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] (3)
* [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]] (4)
* [[Brawl (Movie)|Brawl]] (5)
* [[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]] (12)
* [[Barricade (Movie)|Barricade]] (13)
|c3=
* [[Archibald Witwicky]] (1)
* [[Ron Witwicky]] (8)
* [[Judy Witwicky]] (9)
* [[Sam Witwicky]] (10)
* [[Seymour Simmons|Agent Simmons]] (11)
}}

== Errors ==
* Of the two original Sector Seven agents introduced in the previous issue, it was the dark-haired, bespectacled, mutton-chopped man who was depicted as having the growing obsession with the Mega-Man. In this issue, however, it is the other man—chubby and moustachioed—who has been given that role, as he returns to Hoover Dam an elderly man to reflect on his history. When these characters were brought back and fleshed out for the ''[[Transformers: Sector 7|Sector 7]]'' comic a few years later, a gentle retcon firmly established that it was the moustachioed man ([[Walter Simmons]]) who had the obsession, while the other character ([[Theodore Joseph Wells]]) was given a different role to play.
* Sector Seven is shown making preparations to move Megatron from the arctic to the Hoover Dam in early-to-mid 1935, contradicting the claim made by [[Tom Banachek]] in the movie itself that he was moved in 1934. Further, the estimated time of Megatron's arrival is fall of 1935, but the prequel novel ''[[Ghosts of Yesterday]]'' has Megatron not being transferred until [[1969]]. A few years later, IDW's ''[[Transformers: Sector 7|Sector 7]]'' mini-series smoothed these errors over, writing Banachek's claim off as a lie (after all, Hoover Dam hadn't been ''finished'' in 1934), and crediting some delays in getting the cryo-block system up and running, followed by the outbreak of [[World War II]], as he reason for the organization's failure to move Megatron in the 30s.

== Items of note ==
* On the highway, vehicles resembling the alternate modes of ''[[Generation 1 (franchise)|Generation 1]]'' [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]], [[Ironhide (G1)|Ironhide]], [[Trailbreaker (G1)|Trailbreaker]] and ''[[Robots in Disguise (franchise)|Robots in Disguise]]'' [[Scourge (RID)|Scourge]] can be seen.
* According to colorist [[Josh Burcham]], the people depicted on the walls of the [[Sector Seven]] base in [[Richmond]], [[Virginia]], in addition to [[Robert Oppenheimer]] and [[William Hayward Pickering]] (who are both identified by the dialogue), are supposed to be [[wikipedia:Frederick_Sanger|Frederick Sanger]], [[wikipedia:Jack_Kilby|Jack Kilby]] and artist [[Don Figueroa]] himself. Apparently Don views himself as looking like a young Michael Keaton.
* Before Bumblebee uses the computers in an internet café to access the internet, he watches the owner drive off in a car that looks like a cross between a classic Volkswagen Beetle and a New Beetle (artist Don Figueroa seems to have a problem with realistic car models), a [[Easter egg|nod]] to [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee's G1 alternate mode]].
* Bumblebee uses a search engine called "Shwiggle", a parody of [[wikipedia:Google|Google]] (and also an nickname for colorist Josh Burcham used by his uncle). It also has an additional function called "I feel Shwiggly". That actually sounds kinda disturbing.
* The songs Bumblebee plays on his radio feature lyrics that are similar, but not quite identical to those of existing songs, possibly to avoid licensing issues. The original songs are:
** ''Waiting (For a Girl Like You)'' by Foreigner
** ''I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For'' by U2
** ''Who Are You'' by The Who
* Uh. How exactly does contact with Megatron grant precognition to Captain Witwicky? His vision of [[Transformers (2007)|the coming war]] includes the exact [[Alternate mode|alternate modes]] of [[Jazz (Movie)|Jazz]], [[Ratchet (Movie)|Ratchet]] and [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]], a century before they exist.

===Covers (4)===
{{picsneeded|alt covers}}
—''all by Don Figueroa''

* '''Cover A:''' Bumblebee
* '''Cover B:''' Uncolored sketch of page 2, in reverse
* '''Cover RI:''' Uncolored sketch of cover A
* '''Retailer Exclusive:''' Uncolored sketch of Barricade and Blackout
<gallery>
Image:Prime Directives 3a.jpg|Pick that up!
Image:Prime Directives 3b.jpg|Cover B
Image:Prime Directives 3ri.jpg|Cover RI
Image:Prime Directives 3re.jpg|Retailer Exclusive cover
</gallery>

===Advertisements===
* [[Movie Prequel issue 4|''Movie Prequel'' remaining issue]]
* ''[[Movie Adaptation]]'' miniseries
* Transformers posters
* IDW trade paperbacks (''[[Infiltration]]'', ''[[Stormbringer (comics)|Stormbringer]]'', ''[[The Gathering]]'', ''[[Hearts of Steel]]'', ''[[War and Peace]]'', ''[[Generations (comic reprints)|Generations]]'')
* ''Star Trek: Klingons: Blood Will Tell'' series
* ''Star Trek: The Next Generation'' series
* ''[[Spotlight (comics)|Spotlight]]'' TPB
* ''[[Spotlight: Galvatron]]''
* [[Classics (2006)|Classics]] Megatron and other toys
* ''[[Transformers (2007)|Transformers]]'' film (back cover)

[[Category:IDW Movie issues]]

Help:Timelines is not a continuity family

2011-01-14T16:25:16Z

-Blackout-: Undo revision 543763 by 99.64.193.41 (Talk)

[[Timelines (fiction)|Timelines]], the toyline name under which [[BotCon]] and [[Transformers Collectors' Club]] toys and fiction have been released from ''2005—present'' is '''not a [[Continuity family|continuity family]].'''

A continuity family is a set of closely related continuities, such as the [[Generation 1 (franchise)|Generation 1]] family, whose members are all based on the original 1984 toyline. '''Timelines''' is an [[Umbrella franchise|umbrella franchise]], telling tales set in the Generation 1, [[Beast Wars (franchise)|Beast Wars]] and [[Unicron Trilogy]] continuity families as well as [[Shattered Glass (franchise)|new]], [[Axiom Nexus|previously unseen]] universes.

Though franchises have ''generally'' aligned with continuity families in the past, this is not always the case. And ''seriously''? It shouldn't be this hard. If a story [[Games of Deception|uses all Generation 1 characters]], it's probably part of the Generation 1 continuity family.

Other things which are ''not a continuity family'' include:

* ''[[Classics (2006)|Classics]]''
* ''[[Universe (2008 franchise)|Universe]]''
* [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd-qrL9R5lc Your mom]

Because Timelines is not a continuity family, describing a character with ''Murdertron is a Decepticon in the Timelines continuity family'' is '''wrong'''. Timelines can mean ''any'' continuity, or any continuity-family. Using the term as if it represented a singular ''anything'' is utterly meaningless.

If you do this, you will be murdered.

[[Category:Help]]

Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (film)/home video

2011-01-14T07:08:22Z

-Blackout-: /* Japanese retailer exclusives */

{{factions|dvd|blu-ray|worldwide}}
{{nav-rotf}}
[[Image:ROTF-DVDSingleDisc.jpg|thumb|250px|You can probably buy this at the liquor store.]]

The [[Revenge of the Fallen (film)|biggest movie of last summer]] was released to DVD and Blu-ray in North America on [[October 20]]th, 2009. Are you prepared? Do you know your exclusive transforming case from your extra seconds of metal smashy-smashy? Here's what you need to know:

==General retail releases==
Hundreds of retail chains across the United States are offering ''ROTF'' for sale, from grocery stores to pharmacies to gas stations. There are essentially four versions of ''ROTF'' available for Region 1 purchase - the single-disc DVD, the two-disc "special edition" available on Blu-Ray or DVD, and the Walmart-exclusive "Big Screen Edition" which is the only version containing the IMAX-exclusive footage (but is otherwise identical to the Special Edition).

Here's everything you could ever want to know about the different releases:

===Single-disc release===
;DVD approximately $15 US / £10 UK
* All editions of ''ROTF'' include the following:
** ''Revenge of the Fallen'' in widescreen format
** English, French and Spanish language tracks
** English, French and Spanish subtitles

* There appears to be no single-disc Blu-Ray release, however, disc one of the Blu-Ray Special Edition is in 1080p format, upgrades the audio tracks to 5.1 Dolby Digital and adds a Brazilian Portugese subtitle track.
{{-}}

===Two-Disc Special Edition===
[[Image:ROTF-DVD-2disc.jpg|thumb|150px|You can probably buy this at the nicer, larger, liquor store.]]
;DVD approx. $22 / £15
;Blu-ray approx. $25 / £17
* This version includes all the features above, a [[Michael Bay]], [[Alex Kurtzman]] and [[Roberto Orci]] commentary track plus a second disc containing:
** Extended scenes
** [[Linkin Park]] music video for "New Divide"
** A ton of documentaries, as follows:
*** The Human Factor: Exacting Revenge of the Fallen
*** Seeds of Vengeance - Development and Design
*** Domestic Destruction - Production: United States
*** Joint Operations - Production: Military
*** Wonders of the World - Production: Middle East
*** Start Making Sense - Editing
*** Under the Gun - Visual Effects
*** Running the Gauntlet - Post-Production and Release
*** A Day With Bay - [[Tokyo]]
*** 25 Years of Transformers
*** Deconstructing Visual Bayhem
** [[NEST]] Transformers Data Hub; a collection of concept art
** Easter eggs:
*** Extended footage of [[Mojo]] "dominating" [[Frankie]]
*** [[Josh Duhamel]] tripping over while doing a stunt

* The Blu-ray version adds the following:
** The Allspark Experiment mini-game
** 3-D turnaround galleries of the robot designs
** A Transformers timeline
** Some more documentaries:
*** Giant Effing Movie
*** The Matrix of Marketing

*The UK Blu-ray version also adds a third disc containing a "Digital Copy" of the movie, meaning a file on a DVD-ROM, for copying to your computer, etc.

For a limited time, copies of the DVD were available for preorder on [[Michael Bay]]'s website, to be signed by Bay himself. Maybe you can find one on [[eBay]] if you're lucky.
{{-}}

===Two-Movie Mega Collection===
;DVD approx. $30 / £15
* Contains the single-disc edition DVDs of both ''Transformers'' and ''ROTF''
;Blu-ray approx. $45 / £35
* Contains the Two-Disc Special Edition Blu-rays of both ''Transformers'' and ''ROTF''
{{-}}

==US retailer exclusives==
===Best Buy Limited Edition Blu-Ray Giftset - $44.99===
* Includes the Blu-Ray version of the 2-disc Special Edition, as well as the following:
* Miniature [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] bust
* $50 Sideshow Collectibles gift certificate
* [http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9426882&st=Transformers_Experience&lp=3&type=product&cp=1&id=2011873 ''ROTF'' giftset at BestBuy.com]
{{-}}
===F.Y.E. Exclusive Steelbook Packaging - $25.99===
[[Image:FYE ROTF DVD Steelbook.jpg|thumb|150px|]]
* Includes the DVD version of the 2-disc Special Edition, in a special metal case
* [http://www.fye.com/Transformers--Revenge-of-the-Fallen--Special-Edition---Steelbook-packaging---f-y-e--Exclusive--Front-Page_stcVVproductId84987344VVcatId455366VVviewprod.htm ''ROTF'' Steelbook edition at FYE.com]
{{-}}
===Target Exclusive Transforming Bumblebee Case===
* Available with either the DVD ($26.99) or Blu-Ray ($29.99) versions of the 2-disc Special Edition, in a "transforming" [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]] case
* [http://www.target.com/Transformers-Revenge-Fallen-Blu-ray-Target/dp/B002PZ1FWK/ref=br_1_8?ie=UTF8&frombrowse=1&searchView=grid5&searchNodeID=2055001011&node=2055001011&searchRank=pmrank&searchPage=1&searchSize=30&id=Transformers%20Revenge%20Fallen%20Blu-ray%20Target Transforming Bumblebee Case (Blu-Ray version) at Target.com]
* [http://www.target.com/Transformers-Revenge-Fallen-Only-Target/dp/B002PZ1FRA/ref=br_1_12?ie=UTF8&frombrowse=1&searchView=grid5&searchNodeID=2055001011&node=2055001011&searchRank=pmrank&searchPage=1&searchSize=30&id=Transformers%20Revenge%20Fallen%20Only%20Target Transforming Bumblebee Case (DVD version) at Target.com]
{{-}}
===Walmart Exclusive Big Screen Edition===
[[Image:Tf2009 bluray bigscreenedition case.jpg|thumb|150px|We're not playing favorites... but let's face it; ''this'' is the one you want.]]
* Available with either the DVD ($20.86) or Blu-Ray ($23.32) versions of the 2-disc Special Edition. NOT the single disc version. Don't cheap out.
* This is the only home video release to include the IMAX-exclusive ''ROTF'' footage, so if you want to see faces ripped off in glorious über-detail, this is the one to go for.
* [http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=12534009 ''ROTF'' Big Screen Edition (Blu-Ray) at Walmart.com]
* [http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=12534010 ''ROTF'' Big Screen Edition (DVD) at Walmart.com]

*On a funny sidenote to the Wal-Mart edition, a home office error caused the Blu-Ray version to be priced at $13 at release. Unfortunately, due to a decree by the [[Georgia]] governor during the flooding that occurred in the Fall, no retailers were allowed to initiate price increases until the end of October. Not even to fix a pricing error.
{{-}}

==Canadian retailer exclusives==
===Best Buy Exclusive Blu-Ray Special Edition ($27.99 sale)===
* Contains the Blu-Ray 2-disc Special Edition and an exclusive t-shirt
{{-}}
===Future Shop Exclusive Steelbook Edition ($27.99 sale)===
[[Image:Futureshop_ROTF_Bluray_steelbook.jpg|thumb|150px|]]
* Contains the Blu-Ray 2-disc Special Edition and an exclusive steel packaging case
* The case is different from F.Y.E.'s and is exclusive to Canada.
*[http://www.futureshopforums.ca/futureshop/board/message?board.id=movies&thread.id=2198 Future Shop forum post with images of the Steelbook edition.]
{{-}}
===Zellers $10 Toy Coupon ($13.49 limited-time offer)===
* Includes an unspecified DVD edition of ''ROTF'' and a coupon for $10 off a future toy purchase.
{{-}}

==UK retailer exclusives==
===HMV===
*Both the two-disc DVD (£17.99) and Blu-Ray (£22.99) versions are available with Target's Transforming Bumblebee Case.
{{-}}

==German retailer exclusives==
===Müller===
*The two-disc DVD is exclusively available at Müller stores in a Steelbook case (€19.99).

===Amazon===
*The Blu-ray edition with the transforming Bumblebee case is exclusively available via the Amazon.de website (€29,97).
[http://www.amazon.de/dp/B002NX0MGY Amazon.de link]

==Japanese retailer exclusives==
These are all totally awesome and totally expensive, but you're going to have to wait until [[December 18]] to get them.
* '''Black Bumblebee Edition''' - ¥4,536
** DVD or Blu-Ray only, includes a black redeco of Legends-class Bumblebee for preorders only. Available at multiple retailers, also in combination with additional exclusives as listed below.
{{-}}
===Amazon Japan===
[[Image:ROTF Leader OptimusPrime BlackVersion.jpg|thumb|200px|You can probably buy a liquor store with this.]]
* Available on DVD (¥12,640) or Blu-Ray (¥13,220) and includes a [[Jetfire (ROTF)|Jetfire]]-inspired [[redeco]] of ''ROTF'' Leader-class [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]].
{{-}}

===Lawson===
* Available on DVD (¥9,890) or Blu-Ray (¥10,640), includes desert-themed redecos of Deluxe-class [[Skids (ROTF)|Skids]] and [[Mudflap (ROTF)|Mudflap]]
{{-}}
===Tsutaya===
[[Image:ROTFDVD__Tsutaya_clearBumblebee.jpg|thumb|200px|]]
* '''Clear Bumblebee Edition''' - ¥5,191
** DVD or Blu-Ray only, includes a clear redeco of Legends-class Bumblebee as well as the transforming Bumblebee case found in the U.S. Target exclusive
{{-}}

{{stub|Are there any exclusive releases for other markets? Europe? Australasia? We need pics of everything, too.}}

==Taiwanese retailer exclusives==
''Revenge of the Fallen'' DVDs and Blu-ray Discs are officially available in Taiwan on [[November 20]], but actually on the market around [[November 18]].

===Single-disc release===
[[Image:ROTFDVD_universe_se_pack.jpg|thumb|right|150px|This is how they always deal with the [[shelfwarmer]]s. Seriously.]]
* '''''Transformers: The War of Revenge''''' (550 NTD)
: Standard version DVD with a paper shellcase printed with introduction in Traditional Chinese.
* '''''Transformers: The War of Revenge'' Transformable Figure Giftbox''' (850 NTD)
: The special set is the item above attached with one of the [[Universe (2008 toyline)#Hasbro Toy Shop exclusives|Deluxe class Special Edition]] from ''[[Universe (2008 franchise)|Universe]]'' franchise: [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#Universe (2008)|Optimus Prime]], [[Megatron (G1)/toys#Universe (2008)|Megatron]], [[:Image:Universeoverkill.jpg|Overkill]], or [[:Image:Universe2008 DragStrip.jpg|Drag Strip]]. All of them are actually [[shelfwarmer]]s in Taiwanese market.

{{--}}

===Two-Disc Special Edition===
[[Image:ROTFDVD_MOVDVD_valuepack.jpg|thumb|right|150px|Much better.]]
* '''''Transformers: The War of Revenge'' Iron Case Two-Disc Special Edition''' (698 NTD)
:As same as the Steelbook Edition with an extra metalic paper cap printed with introduction in Traditional Chinese.
* '''''Transformers: The War of Revenge'' Transforming Case Two-Disc Special Edition''' (798 NTD)
:As same as the transforming Bumblebee case found in the U.S. Target exclusive.
* '''''Transformers'' 1 + 2 Cool & Shining Pack''' (799 NTD)
:Featuring the DVD of ''[[Transformers (2007)|Transformers]]'' and ''Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen'' with an exclusive Autobot mousepad.

===Special items===
[[Image:ROTFDVD_variations_coasterset_Taiwan.jpg|thumb|right|200px|]]
If the customer orders a DVD in a [[7-Eleven]] convenience store or Books.com.tw, there will be an extra exclusive coaster set, featuring four circle-shaped coasters. The diameter of each coaster is around 9 cm (3.5 in). The pictures on the coasters are the [[:Image:Movie_Autobot.JPG|Autobot insignia]], [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]], the [[:Image:Movie_Decepticon.JPG|Decepticon insignia]], and [[:Image:ROTF_bumblebee_poster.jpg|Bumblebee]].

In fact, the customer will receive not only the exclusive coaster set, but also a notepad of ''[[Wikipedia:Shrek the Third|Shrek the Third]]'', another film from [[DreamWorks]], as an extra gift.

===Miscellaneous===
Early-pressed DVD features two extra cards:

*Activation card of [[The Optimus Experience]] (Due date: [[October 19]], 2010)
*Special card
** Lucky draw card
*** First prize: [[:Image:ROTF_UltimateBumblebee.jpg|Ultimate Bumblebee Battle Charged]]
*** Second prize A: [[:Image:ROTF_Leader_OptimusPrime.jpg|Optimus Prime (Leader class)]]
*** Second prize B: [[:Image:ROTF_Leader_Megatron.jpg|Megatron (Leader class)]]
*** Third prize: [[:Image:ROTF_HumanAlliance_Bumblebee%26Sam.jpg|Bumblebee / Sam Witwicky]]
*** Special prize A: [[:Image:MickeyMouse-ColorToy.jpg|Mickey Mouse Trailer]]
*** Special prize B: [[:Image:Donald_duck_transformer.jpg|Donald Duck]]
** Catalog for ''Revenge of the Fallen'' products in January, 2010
** Coupon for 100 NTD (Due date: [[January 31]], 2010)



==External links==
*[http://www.transformersmovie.com Dreamworks/Paramount's ''Transformers'' Movie website]
*[http://www.hasbro.com/transformers/ Hasbro's ''Transformers'' homepage]

[[Category:Home video]]
[[Category:Revenge of the Fallen| ]]
[[Category: Exclusives]]

Turmoil

2011-01-14T07:02:43Z

-Blackout-: /* Notes */

{{factions|decepticon}}

:''Turmoil is a [[Decepticon]] from the [[Generation 1 (franchise)|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''

[[Image:Turmoil_MainPic.jpg|thumb|right|250px|[http://www.vimeo.com/1929867 When his fearful shears he plies, he'll cut you down to cir-cum-ciiiiise!]]]

'''Turmoil''' is a commander in the Decepticon forces, in charge of a battle cruiser with at least a dozen crew members. Blunt and taciturn, he prefers to let his ginormous arm-cannon do the talking for him. This philosophy lends him a surprising degree of stealth, since remaining quiet can allow a talkative enemy to unintentionally reveal all sorts of things—his location, for instance.

Turmoil once had a second-in-command named [[Drift (G1)|Deadlock]] who renounced all factions and tried to leave. Unfortunately, he seemingly perished before Turmoil himself could have the pleasure of destroying him. It would be quite a surprise indeed for Turmoil to hear his traitorous voice again.

It is unclear what Turmoil's [[Alternate mode|alt-mode]] is, but the treads on his legs and the cannon on his arm suggest something tank-like.

==Fiction==
===IDW ''Generation 1'' continuity===
Long ago, Turmoil was in charge of a ship of Decepticons and [[Drift (G1)|Deadlock]] was his increasingly problematic second-in-command. Things came to a head when, during one battle with the Autobots on an alien world, Deadlock ignored Turmoil's orders to not fire unless fired upon. Even though this action resulted in Decepticon victory, Deadlock's peers hated Deadlock so much that they tattled and turned on him once they returned to the ship. Turmoil had prepared to execute his wayward second-in-command when Deadlock freed himself and escaped the ship in a pod. Infuriated, Turmoil put out word that Deadlock was banished and should be killed on sight. {{storylink|Drift issue 1|Drift #1}}

In the modern era, Turmoil and his crew docked their ship on some alien world, the cruiser damaged but holding several [[Autobot]] prisoners. This stop ended up being a lethal mistake. While the locals bore some degree of hostility towards [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertronians]], the real danger came from two coincidentally convergent Autobot attacks.

One was carried out by a solitary warrior, Drift (formerly Turmoil's second-in-command, Deadlock). He paid some local Cybertronian-haters for access to the docking platform, then used his firsthand knowledge of the ship to get past its security systems. As he did so, the other attack commenced, to his surprise as much as anyone's: [[Kup (G1)|Kup]], [[Springer (G1)|Springer]], [[Twin Twist]], [[Perceptor (G1)|Perceptor]], and [[Roadbuster]] blasted their way through the side of the ship, intent on freeing their imprisoned comrades. The squad didn't recognize Drift, but they accepted his help as he led them straight to the brig, where they found the other members of their individual groups ([[Triple Changer]]s, [[Jumpstarter]]s, etc.)

[[Image:Turmoil_and_the_Minion.jpg|thumb|250px|left|"We're not doing Madame Chao's; the service is terrible." "But takeout, you say!" "Yeah, but why should I give my business to— Moishe, dainum."]]

Meanwhile, Turmoil had gathered his troops and prepared to storm the brig, but they found that the door had been relocked with new block-programs. At first one of his soldiers tried to undo them within the system, but Turmoil silently ordered him away from the door. On the other side, he could hear Perceptor talking to the other Autobots while continuing to hack the ship's computer. Turmoil blasted a massive hole through both the door and Perceptor's chest, then waltzed right in.

As the battle erupted, Turmoil recognized the voice of his old subordinate Deadlock. Condemning the traitor, he blasted at him and ended up sending him and Kup flying through a wall, away from the fight. Turmoil did not follow them, but his choice to stay in the battle was a poor one, as all of the other Autobots ended up escaping anyway.

[[Image:Turmoil_pinned_by_Drift.jpg|thumb|right|150px|So envision it, the big boom, rubble raining down, chaos, mayhem below!]]

Attempting to salvage a shred of victory, Turmoil tracked Drift and Kup to what appeared to be the engine room, where Drift had just finished sabotaging a key piece of equipment. Turmoil fired at them, sending Kup flying through a wall ''again'' (this time through an open hatch leading outside), but Drift remained to continue the fight. Dodging his shots, Drift pinned Turmoil to a wall with his two short swords and lectured him on how degraded the Decepticons had become. Turmoil scoffed, saying that the Autobots would never accept an outcast like Drift. Turmoil then dared Drift to kill him, claiming that doing so would prove that Drift was nothing more than he had been before.

In a debatable moral victory, Drift declined to kill him on the spot, trusting in his sabotage to do the job instead. Drift raced back to the brig to retrieve the fallen Perceptor, then exited the cruiser just as it erupted in a massive fireball. The two Autobots fell into Kup's waiting ship, and Turmoil was presumably destroyed. {{storylink|Spotlight: Drift}}

==Notes==

*Casey Coller designed Turmoil and posted a picture of him with his alt-mode included on his [http://caliber316.deviantart.com/#/d2yi251 deviantart page.]

[[Category:Comic-only Transformers]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Decepticons]]

Revenge of the Decepticons Part 2: Altered Carbon

2011-01-06T11:44:40Z

-Blackout-:

{{Comicstory|
|seriesissue=''[[The Transformers (IDW)|The Transformers]]'' #15
|prev=Revenge of the Decepticons Part 1: The Demolished Man
|next=Revenge of the Decepticons Part 3:
|title="Revenge of the Decepticons Part 2: Altered Carbon"
|image=Transformers 15A.jpg
|caption=
|publisher=[[IDW Publishing]]
|date=[[January 5]], [[2011]]
|coverdate=January 2010
|written by=[[Mike Costa]]
|art by=[[Don Figueroa]]
|colors by=[[Andrew Dalhouse]]
|letters by=[[Chris Mowry]]
|assistant editor=[[Carlos Guzman]]
|editor=[[Andy Schmidt]]
|continuity=[[IDW Generation 1 continuity|IDW continuity]]
|chronology=[[IDW timeline|Current era (2010)]]
}}
'''Megatron deploys his master plan while the Autobots deal with the loss of their allies.'''

==Synopsis==
{{issuestub}}

==Featured characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
*[[Hot Rod (G1)|Hot Rod]] (9)*
*[[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] (11)*
*[[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] (12)
*[[Brawn (G1)|Brawn]] (13)
*[[Bluestreak (G1)|Silverstreak]] (14)
*[[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]] (16)
|c2=
*[[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] (3)*
*[[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] (4)*
*[[Frenzy (G1)|Frenzy]] (5)*
*[[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]] (6)*
*[[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] (7)*
*[[Rumble (G1)|Rumble]] (8)*
*[[Thundercracker (G1)|Thundercracker]] (17)
|c3=
*[[Nina]] (1)
*[[Ben Simpson]] (2)
*[[Carlos Tuyuc]] (10)*
*[[Silent Bob]] (11)*
*[[Joe Gladki]] (12)*
*[[Schwalbe]] (15)
}}

<nowiki>*</nowiki> flashbacks

==Quotes==
* TBD

==Errors==
* TBD

==Items of note==
* TBD

===Covers(3)===
* '''Cover A:''' Dramatic scene of [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]]; art by [[Don Figueroa]].
* '''Cover B:''' [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] and [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]] argue while Megatron broods; art by [[Nick Roche]], colors by [[James Brown|J.Brown]].
* '''Cover RI:''' Concept drawing of [[Sideswipe (G1)|Sideswipe]]; art by Don Figueroa.

<gallery>
Image:Transformers 15A.jpg|Megatron always did like purple.
Image:Transformers 15B.jpg|"I have a [[chin]] and you don't, ''so there!''"
Image:Transformers 15RI.jpg|"Hi, I'm not in this issue."
</gallery>

===Advertisements===
*''[[The Transformers (IDW)|The Transformers]]'' [[Revenge of the Decepticons Part 3:|#16]]
* [[IDWords]] article plugging ''[[Infestation (IDW)|Infestation]]'', ''True Blood'', ''Off Road'' and ''Amazing 3-D Comics''
* ''Skyrockets'' comic
* ''[[G.I. Joe (franchise)|G.I. Joe]]: Tales From the Cobra Wars'' anthology
* ''G.I. Joe: Hearts & Minds'' hardcover
* ''Dungeons & Dragons'' comic
* ''Dark Sun'' comic
* ''[[Infestation (IDW)|Infestation]]'' comics (back cover)

[[Category:IDW Generation 1 issues]]

Neuro-Centre Control Unit

2011-01-06T10:33:39Z

-Blackout-: /* Generation 2: Redux */

A '''Neuro-Centre Control Unit''' is a device used by [[Transformer]]s. It has something to do with [[Processors#Vocal processors|vocal processors]].

==Fiction==
===Generation 2: Redux===
Upon landing in [[Toulon]], [[France]], [[Slicer]]'s Neuro-Centre Control Unit malfunctioned, causing his vocal processors to get stuck with the local accent. {{storylink|Generation 2: Redux}}

[[Category:Transformer anatomy]]

Neuro-Centre Control Unit

2011-01-06T10:33:00Z

-Blackout-: New page: A '''Neuro-Centre Control Unit''' is a device used by Transformers. It has something to do with vocal processors. ==Fiction== ===Generation 2: Redux===...

Slicer (G1)

2011-01-06T10:20:44Z

-Blackout-: /* Wings of Honor */

{{Factions|decepticon}}
:''Slicer is a [[Decepticon]] [[Action Master]] from the [[Generation 1 (franchise)|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]]. He is also known as '''Slice'''.''

[[Image:G1Slicer-packagingart.jpg|right|thumb|300px|Préparer à être tranché! oh-hoh-hoh-hoh-hoh!]]

'''Slicer''' only knows one thing: attack. This single-mindness has even led to difficulty in relating to his fellow Decepticons; the ever-lasting desire to attack forces Slicer to be cruel and unjust to all. On top of this, Slicer has a very short temper.

Now, with his transforming [[Action Master Exo-suit|Exo-suit]], Slicer is usually in the front lines, tearing through Autobots with his anger and destruction.

==Fiction==
===Wings of Honor===
[[Image:Timelines5-WheeljackSlicer.jpg|left|150px|thumb|Oh fine, FP, make sure everyone wants two of the one-per-attendee toy! Thanks!]]

Following the Rebirth, Slicer followed [[Breakdown (G1)|Breakdown]] to [[Earth]], where he landed in [[Toulon]], [[France]]. Due to a malfunction with his [[Neuro-Centre Control Unit]], his vocal processor got stuck with the local accent. Soon he fell in with [[Clench (G1)|Clench]]'s [[Generation 2|second generation]] of Decepticons, and in 2010, he helped Clench invade the [[Large Hadron Collider]] in [[Switzerland]]. The leader of the Autobot opposition, [[Pyro]], was captured and brought inside, while Slicer, [[Double Punch]], and a team of [[Sharkticon (G1)|Sharkticon]]s waited outside.

However, Slicer was temporarily downed when the Decepticons were attacked by Autobot reinforcements. Slicer recovered soon enough and joined the battle. The rest of Clench's troops emerged from the Large Hadron Collider having completed their primary objective, unlocking special powers within themselves using [[forestonite]]. But unfortunately, some of the Autobots also gained special powers, and once [[Sky-Byte (Timelines)|Sky-Byte]] left with his Sharkticons, Clench was forced to call for a retreat. Along with his Decepticon peers, Slicer fled with a parcel of [[Forestonite]]. Safely away, he made rendezvous with... ''himself''... just outside Rennes, France. Having been contacted earlier, Slicer handed over the Forestonite to [[Wheeljack (SG)|his future self]] to aid in the conquest of the year 5000. In exchange, he was granted the Autobot battle plans for the next seven centuries, with a warning not to alter the timeline too much. He discovered far too late that his mysterious future self had instead bestowed upon him a copy of ''[[Ninja Gladiator]]'' for the [[Magnographix 16]], thus showing he had been swindled. {{storylink|Generation 2: Redux}}

==Toys==
===Generation 1===
[[Image:Slicer power plans.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Is that a 'phase tracker', or is he just happy to see you?]]
*'''Slicer''' (Action Master, 1991)
**''Accessories:'' 2 cannons, 2 blades

[[Image:G1 Slicer toy.jpg|left|170px|thumb|Sure, it's a stompy death killing machine, but it's a ''pink'' stompy death killing machine!]]

:A [[redeco]] of Action Master [[Wheeljack (G1)/toys#ActionMaster|Wheeljack]], Slicer is a non-transforming action figure that is compatible with all other Action Master vehicles and weapons. He comes with a 4WD Assault Vehicle that can transform into an armoured [[Action Master Exo-suit|Exo-suit]]. Slicer was only available in European markets.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/1991/Decepticon/Slicer/slicer.htm More information on Slicer at tfu.info]''
{{-}}

===Timelines===
[[Image:Timelinestoy-BC2010Slice.jpg|right|thumb|300px|Baguette not included.]]
*'''Generation 2: Redux''' (BotCon 2010 attendee freebie)
**''Accessories'': Hyper-carbine shotgun, neutronic exhaust gun, missile, spoiler

: A [[redeco]] of ''[[Energon (toyline)|Energon]]'' [[Downshift (Energon)#toys|Downshift]], "Decepticon Slice" transforms into blue rally-deco sports car of undetermined (possibly fictional) model with red and black stripes. He has a pair of dark red clear-plastic guns: one a spring-loaded missile launcher, one non-firing. These can be hand-held or attached to Slice in various ways in both modes, including on his removable spoiler. He can also form the top or bottom half of any silver or bronze "[[Powerlinx]]" combiner. He was given free to [[BotCon 2010]] Primus Package attendees.

: The polybag packaging for this toy is labeled "Slicer," but the profile card says "Decepticon Slice."

: This toy was also redecoed as ''[[Universe (2003 toyline)|Universe]]'' Downshift. The Autobot symbol sculpted into his collarbone is painted purple so that he can be [[repurposing|repurposed]] as ''[[Shattered Glass (franchise)|Shattered Glass]]'' [[Wheeljack (SG)|Wheeljack]].

::*''[http://tfu.info/2010/Decepticon/BCSlice/slice.htm More information on Decepticon Slice at TFU.info]''
{{--}}

==Notes==
* Slicer is the basis for the evil ''[[Shattered Glass (franchise)|Shattered Glass]]'' [[Wheeljack (SG)|Wheeljack]]'s colors.

[[Category: Action Masters]]
[[Category: European-original characters]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Decepticons]]

Talk:Goldbug (IDW)/Archive2

2011-01-02T19:07:04Z

-Blackout-: archive

==A Generalized IDW Character Split?==

I think a lot of our recent big discussions have had a common theme: that we're finding the gaps in our "every character from a G1 continuity family gets lumped together" policy. It doesn't work when it lumps Alternators Nemesis Prime with Classicsverse Nemesis Prime, it doesn't work especially well for Goldbug, and it probably doesn't work overly well in our current treatment of IDW Galvatron. So yes, I do think we'll have some foundations for policy here when the dust finally settles.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 16:46, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
:Yeah, I definitely think you're on the right track. I'd also like to throw [[Scorponok (G1)]] in the mix, since I personally think his North American and Japanese portrayals are different enough to warrant separation. (Probably [[Fortress Maximus (G1)]] too.) If we're going to start splitting more hairs than we have in the past, we need to consider as many borderline cases as we can to find common principles. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 16:55, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
::Hearts of Steel characters are almost definitely applicable. Heck, even though we had that discussion before I'd say they're an easier decision to split off.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 17:05, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
:::I really do think we should split articles for characters that are basically the same but very different from the original or oversees incarnation. And I kinda vote for the idw incarnations being split off and carry the HOS stuff on them too. [[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 17:10, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
::::I mentioned it on the Galvatron page, but I figure it's applicable in this discussion too (perhaps moreso, given the direction it's taking): completely alternate universe takes like Hearts of Steel notwithstanding, either we move all of the IDW characters to their own pages, or we keep them all on G1. Stop with this bullshit of picking and choosing based on arbitrary reasoning (and really, it IS pretty arbitrary - many of the arguments made for removing the toy information from this page can be made about dozens of characters in just about every continuity). It doesn't follow policy, it doesn't follow standards, and it's confusing as hell. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 18:12, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
:::::''"either we move all of the IDW characters to their own pages"''
:::::This had '''better''' be a joke. Also, the idea of giving characters who appear in HOS individual pages? '''''NO.''''' And shame on you for even thinking it. Splitting every character to appear in an IDW book is possibly the most fucking stupid idea I've ever heard proposed on this wiki. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 18:23, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
::::::What Sipher said. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 18:25, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
::::::I've heard stupider ideas... I'm just blanking on them now.
::::::Here's my problem-- "Goldbug (IDW)" means that if any future fiction writes a non-Bumblebee Goldbug, we end up with another article named "Goldbug (Image)" or "Goldbug (Devils Due)." Normally those would just be sections on a Goldbug character page.
::::::This is basically splitting out a character section in a publisher-specific way, which is why I think it should be "(G1)". -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:33, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
:::::::I agree, it's ridiculous. But picking and choosing certain IDW characters for their own pages just because one or two people think they're a little TOO different is even more ridiculous. I mean, come on. We were seriously arguing about whether or not Goldbug's toy should be on Goldbug's page just because he happens to not be Bumblebee for once (a trend IDW has been showing since Spotlight: Galvatron) and because his single appearance just so happened to have a different vehicle mode because he wasn't on Earth. And NOW we're debating on whether or not Galvatron gets his own page because he just happens to not be Megatron in this continuity. As I and others have said, it's all about consistency. So either we CONSISTENTLY put all the IDW characters on (IDW) pages, or we CONSISTENTLY put them all on (G1) pages. Trying to go halfsies and put some on G1 and some on IDW based on personal preference and interpretation is absurd. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 18:39, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
::::::::Actually, I was arguing that, if a character is separate enough to get his own page, he's also separate enough that we can't assume the toys for the character(s) we just separated from automatically still apply. Whether a character ''is'' separate enough to get his own page or not is an entirely different question. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:07, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
::::::::I don't think it's accurate to say we're <tt>"picking and choosing certain IDW characters for their own pages just because one or two people think they're a little TOO different."</tt> After examining the situation, I'm convinced that Goldbug-separate-from-Bumblebee ''does'' need his own page. The question is simply what the page should be named.
::::::::A question which has been clouded by issues of disambiguation-by-continuity-family vs. by-publisher, what the definition of 'repurposing' is, how much sway tech-specs have, how to handle characters who change their names, and (I think) at least some desire to punish IDW for this pointless retcon by de-legitimizing their character. (I have no idea if Jeysie feels that way... but '''*I*''' certainly feel an urge to be petty about it.) But those are all page-'''internal''' matters. What decision (if any) is made in regard to them does not affect what name the page will ultimately have... it's just that the original discussion has exploded into a storm of all these side-issue. (Which in turn have offered an opportunity to re-open old debates about other pages, etc.)
::::::::It'll all work out. There will be shouting matches and crazy examples, Hoop will insult your mom and I will make a fool of myself at least three times before we eventually work our way back to actual discussion and (probably) discover that somewhere in all the snarling an actual consensus we can all agree on ''has'' formed and the wiki can move forward.
::::::::It's a stupid system, but it does ''eventually'' work. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:22, 13 August 2009 (EDT)
:::Hearts of Steel?! WHY? There's NOTHING different about the characters themselves -- just the timing of when they arrive on Earth. If you were going to write up the intro paragraph for a HOS Bumblebee, what would you write that would be ANY different than G1 Bumblebee? The answer should be "nothing", and that's a pretty good litmus test right there. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 10:08, 12 August 2009 (EDT)

WOW. I never figured that it'd come to this. OK, deep breath. I think that Derik's point about 'if there is a future Goldbug who isn't Bumblebee' is an excellent one, vis a vis *IF* he's going to live in his own article, it should be at a sensible name. I also couldn't agree more with M Sipher and ItsWalky about the absurdity of trying to break out *EVERY* IDW version of each character. Pretty soon we're going to have a different article for every possible iteration of every character, and that's lunacy. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 19:05, 11 August 2009 (EDT)

:Yeah, I've gotta say, Derik's point about possible future non-Bumblebee Goldbug's is a good one, and certainly the most convincing argument yet. I would say, however, that generally speaking, we don't base our disambigs around what MIGHT happen - if we did that, ''everything'' would have a disambig, even the guys who don't need one, because they MIGHT in the future. I'm still sticking with "Leave it where it is for now," and move it if Derik's hypothetical comes to pass. 100% with Sipher, Walky, Jim and whoever on the notion of splitting off IDW or HOS or anything like that. That's just ''dumb'', guy. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 19:42, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
::And that's why I favor a Goldbug (G1) article. Whether or not the Goldbug-as-Bumblebee info is moved there or if the page simply links to Bumblebee for those continuities is another issue and is a discussion that could probably be saved for that page when it gets made. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 19:44, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
:::I love you, Dark T Zeratul, and I WILL have your babies, whether you like it or not.
:::Chris, I would agree with you except for that what you might think "isn't broken" is actually setting a very real, potentially very bad precedent right now that's having immediate effects. The fact that the debate is spreading to [[Galvatron (G1)]] and beyond is no accident. We're sending mixed signals by keeping the article the way it is, and it WILL keep causing problems. Derik's hypothetical is very useful: It exposes the key flaw. My solution is simple, clean, and affirms the current system, nipping lots of potential policy problems in the bud.
:::- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 19:56, 11 August 2009 (EDT)

Ever wonder if they write the comics with this kind of thing in mind?
:"Just what can we do that'll screw up their classification system a bit more?"
:"I know, we'll add another [[Fasttrack (IDW)|Fasttrack]] and a [[Dropshot (Universe)|Dropshot]], then we'll make Goldbug a whole new character! They'll be arguing over those parenthicals for weeks!"
:"Excellent. Our work here is done."
Sometimes kinda seems that way. Just sayin'. --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 19:36, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
::"If we ever got another Sideays, ''technically'' we'd have to move this one to Sideways (RID)" was a recurring joke. (I think it even ended up on our Disambiguation policy page as an example.) Then Hasbro slapped the name on a character with ''literally'' 30 seconds of screentime.
::I'm not saying it's a conspiracy or 'nuthin... bit it's enough to make you stop and think. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:26, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
:Somehow, I don't think they put basically any thought into such things. I mean, really, does Goldbug do anything in the comic that virtually any other random Autobot couldn't? Would the story ''really'' be any different with only five Throttlebots and Rollbar in charge? It feels like a "just do the first thing that pops into the head that sounds kinda cool". --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:44, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
::Sadly, that could probably be applied to a great number of characters in a great number of stories. A few are very well fleshed out, and most are fairly generic. Either way, this was clearly intended to be the same Goldbug rather than an entirely new character. The only exception is that he didn't used to be Bumblebee, which as I pointed out earlier is an ongoing trend with IDW (Galvatron and Cyclonus so far, and probably Scourge when/if he shows up). -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 19:48, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
:Oh if they were doing it intentionally, they could do much much worse than that. "Oh, hey, here's G1 Demolishor! Now we're going to heavily imply he's actually UT Demolishor displaced from his own universe! No, wait, he's Shattered Glass Demolishor? Ah, we're just screwin with ya. he really is G1 Demolishor" --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:53, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
:Emvee, they're not trying to fuck with us. I assure you, everyone at IDW is just trying to tell fun, interesting stories. And if that sometimes results in giant arguments among us, well, so be it. I think there's a bit of tendency among us, as editors, to think that somehow our understanding of how the TF Universe is organized is binding in some way. It's not. We're just categorizing what's being produced. That's why I think Jeysie's interpretation of toys or no toys on this page were so off-base - because us breaking out Goldbug in IDW ORGANIZATIONALLY from Goldbug in earlier continuities was a construct OF OURS. It didn't reflect any underlying "reality" of the character.
:Basically, we sometimes need to get off our collective high horses a bit. (All of us, myself included.) --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 20:05, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
::Yeah, in the end there are really only two concerns we should have here:
::*Is the result we end up with going to make the information easy to find for our readers?
::*If we develop a standard to go with it, is it easy for editors to apply in a pinch?
::Otherwise we can argue 'till we're blue in the face about the content creators "making work for us," but it ultimately doesn't matter regarding the goals ''any'' good wiki should have.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 20:09, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
::Over on the IDW boards, there was a complaint about how vague [[Bumper (G1)|Bumper]]'s death in [[Megatron Origin]] was, and I was filled with a horrible dread that the plan is to reveal Goldbug as the resurrected Bumper. If I worked at IDW and wanted to make trouble here, that would be my number one priority. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 20:21, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
:::I'll be sure to mention that to Andy. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 20:29, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
::::Having just re-read the issue, I find Hubcap more likely. *thumbs up* -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:19, 12 August 2009 (EDT)
::::Now that I've read over the "discussion" regarding Goldbug, I'm kicking myself on not asking Andy regarding Goldbug's status during SDCC. *facepalm* --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 03:01, 12 August 2009 (EDT)
::Yeah, I know Jim, it's just that it does feel s bit like that sometimes. And I know if I was writing the comics, it's the sort of thing I'd do because I'm a bit evil :) --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 03:41, 12 August 2009 (EDT)
..."Goldbug (G1)/IDW comic continuity"? Just throwing that out there. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 02:23, 12 August 2009 (EDT)
:Goldbug 2? [[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 02:44, 12 August 2009 (EDT)

:''*throws it back*'' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:45, 12 August 2009 (EDT)

== Changed Intro ==
This is getting completely stupid. Even if some people think his toy somehow applies, assuming his old tech spec applies is definitely fanon. Can we possibly please stick to, y'know, writing about what actually happened in canon and stop making stuff up? --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 20:06, 12 August 2009 (EDT)
:'''IF''' this page stays here, then I agree; the fiction should be taken exclusively from his IDW appearances. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 21:50, 12 August 2009 (EDT)
::Yes, Derik, it's not like you're well known for pulling stuff out of your ass based on completely stretching fanon interpretations of things or anything. Now, if someone with a better track record wants to make a case to me... (I can rebut every one of your footnotes if you really want. But just one instance off-hand, Goldbug even says himself that he's optimistic, and it's Sixshot specifically that makes him apprehensive, so how do you get he's "gloomy" out of that. As if Sixshot doesn't make ''everybody'' apprehensive?) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:38, 12 August 2009 (EDT)

<div style="font-family:cursive;padding:.5em 2em;">Dearest Jeysie, 
Per your request, I have [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Goldbug_%28IDW%29&oldid=350786 sourced my revision of Goldbug's bio.] As you can see, about 85% of it came directly from the issue itself. (Which would have been obvious if you'd bothered to ''compare'' the text to the issue instead of just deleting it with a claim that I was drawing from his tech-spec.) 
The other 15% comes from his tech-spec. I don't think you have a consensus to back your conviction that The 1987 toy isn't a representation of IDW Goldbug, so it's fair play. If you want to argue that Goldbug's fuel efficiency and underwater capabilities are "inherited" from Bumblebee and thus he would not have them if he was never Bumblebee... well I ''disagree'', but I might be willing to be convinced on the subject. If, however, you want to argue that the tech-spec can't count because the toy doesn't belong on the page (I'm not putting words in your mouth, it's merely an inference fromt he fact you [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Goldbug_%28IDW%29&diff=336699&oldid=336697 attempted to remove] the toy only to have your edit reverted, and have insisted 4 times on this talk page that the toy should be removed or should not count because <tt>"There's no official statement that toy Goldbug = IDW Goldbug."</tt>) it appears to me that this matter is still up for debate, and I don't think you should be treating it like a settled matter.
::cordial as always,
:-[[User:Derik|Derik]]</div>

:''I can rebut every one of your footnotes if you really want.''
:...seriously, you can rebut footnote #1 on my revision? The one citing that the character's name is Goldbug?
:(I want to see this.)
:Very well, I accept your challenge! If you can refute footnote #1, then I will '''not only''' go with your version of the article, but I will '''also''' support your initiative to remove Goldbug's toy from the page! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:57, 12 August 2009 (EDT)

* 'I knew the lab's work was important because the other Throttlebots and I were there as couriers to keep the work from falling into enemy's hands.', 'There's no one faster or better at evading the enemy than us [...]' 'We were never in the command center, kept separate to keep the work secret.' '...we're the only survivors of a mission I never even have clearance to know about.' - covered in the current intro.
* 'Adaptable to underwater, cold and hot environments. Can withstand temperatures from -150 to 180 degrees Fahrenheit.', 'Inversion of 'Realizes what others think of him isn't nearly as important as what he thinks of himself.', 'Inversion of Excellent fuel efficiency; 2 1/2 times better than the next best Throttlebot.' based Goldbug's 1987 tech-spec. - Not applicable, since there's no canon evidence that his techspec still applies, toy or no toy.
* Neither snow, nor rain, nor heat, nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds. Herodotus on the Persian system of military couriers ~2500 years ago, The Histories - You're kidding? Out-of-Transformers source, thus not applicable.
* 'I try to keep my optimism on max, but this is Sixshot.' 'We should be dead. All of us...' 'Goldbug's despairing internal monologue is a sharp contrast to what his resolute spoken dialog throughout "Spotlight: Metroplex.' - Again, he's generally optimistic, it's just Sixshot specifically that makes him nervous because Sixshot makes everyone nervous (especially after you've already seen him blow up a space station).
* The only order Goldbug gives in "Spotlight: Metroplex" is to "hold [the shuttle] steady" as it's crashing and "roll for it" when the Throttlebots scramble to escape Sixshot. (Besides, what use does a unit of couriers have for a commander? It's not like they work in teams.) - Fanon supposition. At ''best'' it's an Error or Trivia.
* 'All of the Throttlebots except the notably slow Wideload display these jets on pages 4+7 of "Spotlight: Metroplex"' - Just because they have jets doesn't mean we know what they do/are for unless the fiction says so.

But I guess this changed into the "let's write up random fanon supposition" wiki when I wasn't looking? Like I said, considering your track record on pages like Omniverse, SG Ruckus, that weird BW thing you pulled out of thin air, and a multitude of other instances, you'll pardon me if I don't take your supposition seriously. But if anyone else has a good case... --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:03, 12 August 2009 (EDT)
:Addendum: The rest of it is random quotes that could be read a number of different ways, or, in the case of Footnote 1, you being a smartass, which I have no patience for. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:09, 12 August 2009 (EDT)
::''*phew*'' Man, I'm ''glad'' you decided to be pissy about this!
::See, I didn't realize until ''after'' I posted my challenge that you had actually only promised to '''rebut''' all my footnotes, not '''refute''' them. A rebuttal is just a ''response'', it wouldn't even have to be logical or proove anything; you could have said "This character is not named Goldbug because he could actually be [[Scourge (BW)|Scourge]] in disguise" and I would have been '''honor bound''' to support your re-vision of the page and lobby for the toy's removal.
::(I would have done it too. I'm a man of my word.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:25, 12 August 2009 (EDT)
:::It's a rebuttal because I'm willing to entertain the idea that my finding your footnote "proof" extremely dubious is actually incorrect. Provided it's proven to me in a logical and straightforward manner. If you had responded here with a civil logical comment on why you felt your intro (that you even stated in your summary was based at least partly on his tech specs) was nevertheless applicable, we could have a nice, productive conversation.
:::I'm not unreasonable to people who act reasonably. But if you're going to be a smartass, I've got no problems with being pissy about it. The TF fandom has tried my patience for dealing with that sort of crap at this point. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:39, 12 August 2009 (EDT)
::::Oh no no... I'm not disagreeing about ''that''. What you presented was definitely a rebuttal to footnotes 2, 3, 4, 5, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 20. I do not argue with that.
::::However when I accepted your challenge, it was specific to you rebutting footnote #1, which you (thankfully) passed on. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:03, 13 August 2009 (EDT)
:::::Considering I'd be very disappointed if you supported me without genuinely agreeing with my stance, I'm not particularly fussed either way. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 00:21, 13 August 2009 (EDT)

::::::Why not? I can argue for things I don't agree with ''now''. That's healthy, it's part of being able to see things from another people's perspective.
::::::For example; I could argue that because S:M Goldbug:
::::::* Has a different color scheme, not present in the toy or any previous character model, more akin to the original Bumblebee model;
::::::* Possesses a transformation scheme completely unlike the 1987 toy;
::::::* Has a pelvis based on G1 Jazz and G1 Sideswipe's Sunbow animation models;
::::::* Is 'more redesigned' than any of the other Throttlebots in S:M, possessing more anomalous details;
::::::* Does not match his tech-spec in function, attitude, role or relation to G1 Bumblebee;
::::::...that S:M Goldbug is ''not'' based on the 1987 toy, but is in fact a ''new'' character-design melange'd from several toys, character models and characterizations that ''while inspired'' by the 1987 toy much as Shattered Glass Goldbug is... can ''not'' actually said to be an incarnation of that same character.
::::::I don't find that argument ''particularly'' compelling... but I have to admit that when you start rattling off '''all''' the influences that seem to have gone into the character and '''all''' the ways he ''doesn't'' draw from anything that came before, there are enough accumulated bits to give me pause. If you made a strong enough case beyond these 'bits about why this character should be treated that way... I might allow myself to be persuaded.
::::::The thing is... you're not '''doing''' that. I don't feel a lot of give-and-take in your arguments or revisions. You can't just say "no" without dialoging There has be be ''give'' on both sides for there to be ''consensus''. This is '''not''' a game of "I advance my perspective, and it is 100% correct or 100% incorrect. Let us stage an up-or-down vote."
::::::And when you "rebutted every one of my footnotes", you ''didn't'' bother to present arguments against 6, 7, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 or 19-- but you still felt free to remove the portion that states he's "gloomy on the inside but presents a more up-beat joking public face." I mean-- '''fergods sake'''. It's right there, he was experiencing doubts that the Autobots had already lost the war ''prior'' to Sixshot's attack.
::::::And SUFFERING SHAD, did you ''actually'' say that "Just because the Throttlebots have jets doesn't mean we can say they make them go fast"?
::::::'''FUCK. THAT. SHIT.''' If you're going to insult me ''at least'' offer a disingenuous argument like "how do we know those aren't the afterimages of running lights?"
::::::Here's a ''mind blowing'' concept; how about saying- "I see where you're going with those jets Derik, but I think you're going too far to say for certain that they're short-range, or that they're for evasion. That needs to be ''eased that back a bit'' before I'm comfortable with it." You know-- try '''building consensus''' from different point of views instead of slapping down everyone's but your own?
::::::I'm '''not''' placing the burden on you do do the work of resolving this, but when you simply revert my edits and say "keep your fannon shit out of the article" and followup with a point-by-point rebuttal that basically says "I wholly reject your reality and deny that your edits have any basis at all" you are leaving ''no'' ground for discussion.
::::::I don't think you're "playing nice" with your fellow editors. And it's extremely irritating.
::::::It's working against you too. You've been arguing that it's "inappropriate for the wiki" to include the Goldbug toy in this article for 4 days... and getting ''very little'' traction with users who feel that removing it would remove relevant information. I think you'd get a much ''better'' response if you suggested moving the toy to the trivia section like we do with [[Enemy|some characters]] when it's not clear a toy can be legitimately said to 'be' someone. (You know; a compromise! As in 'give and take.' As in 'consensus.') I might be willing to entertain the suggestion if for no other reason than I think your fixation on this point is blocking anyone else from moving forward with this article.
::::::We've been arguing about it for '''four days''' and until I took a whack at his bio this afternoon the entire article consisted of "Goldbug is the leader of the Throttlebots" and some <nowiki>{{stub}}</nowiki> tags! Be part of the process or get out of the way. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:00, 13 August 2009 (EDT)
:::::::I'm more than willing to allow for compromise when I think I might be wrong on something. I'm actually not sure if I could make a good argument or not that if by wiki standards Goldbug even ''should'' be separated from Bumblebee, or if every G1 Goldbug should be on the same page, so I actually have no real opinion on that aspect of things.
:::::::What I ''am'' saying, and have been saying all along is that, ''if'' we decide, according to the fiction, that a character is different enough to be separated, then I think that means that we have to choose whether a toy belongs or not on the new page also based on the fiction. I would take that stance on any particular situation that brought it up; it just happened to be this one.
:::::::It's not my problem if other people didn't write up a certain thing. I've had other things I've been working on. And other folks could have easily reverted my edit saying they thought you were right, or posted on the talk page here saying as much. But they haven't yet.
:::::::When I altered your edits you could have made a civil argument here stating why you thought you were right. Instead you reinstated it with a ridiculous footnote thing to make a smartass point. So you'll pardon me if I feel no need to sugarcoat things to spare your feelings. I think what you posted was fan supposition and I find your justifications dubious, and I feel no need to pretend to feel otherwise. If other people think I'm wrong and overrule me, so be it. But all I've heard so far is you being smart alecky and throwing fits, which makes me even less inclined to be nice to you.
:::::::Not to mention that making all this dumb fuss over a bit of info that's not even remotely important enough to put on the page if we can't verify it makes me want to borrow Sipher's bag of soap. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 02:42, 13 August 2009 (EDT)
::::::::''you reinstated it with a ridiculous footnote thing to make a smartass point.''
::::::::Your original note on the reversion was, and I ''quote'': <tt>"...where did you get *any* of that from his actual fiction appearance?"</tt>
::::::::Sounds like a request to provide citation to me. And '''more''' to the point, it sounds like your original basis for the reversion was that I was drawing from the toy tech-spec, and you don't think the toy counts, therefore I'm not allowed to use it in the bio despite the general lack of support for your "the toy doesn't count" thing.
::::::::Also, if there ''is'' a pillowcase-beating in my future, may I respectfully request Irish Spring? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:02, 13 August 2009 (EDT)
::::::::Because even if we decide the toy applies, that still doesn't prove that the ''tech spec'' applies. Especially considering that one, tech specs don't necessarily match fiction even when the toy does definitely match, and considering the fiction is the entire justification for the split to begin with, that's what we need to go by, not the toy. And two, considering that Goldbug's tech specs state he's got Bumblebee's mind, and at best we don't know if that's the case, and at worst we know that the writers have explicitly said he's not Bumblebee, that casts even more question on whether the rest of the tech spec bio necessarily applies or not.
::::::::(Sorry for all the "considerings".) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 03:20, 13 August 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::'s not problem.
:::::::::See-- I ''get'' that that's your argument. But momentarily bypassing whether or not the toy 'counts', I'm stuck on "even if we decide the toy applies, that still doesn't prove that the ''tech spec'' applies."
:::::::::I don't think it ''works'' that way. Just because [[Beast Changer]]'s tech-spec doesn't match the show doesn't mean that we doubt his tech-spec's information about his claws ability to rip through synthetic alloys or that his dragon scales are tougher than any Vehicon armor. If the toy ''is'' that character, its information still counts unless specifically contradicted.
:::::::::The '''only''' time a tech-spec would ''completely not count'' is when a toy was [[repurposing|repurposed]] as another character like [[Armorhide (Movie)|Armorhide]] was as [[Huffer (SG)|Huffer]]. ''Obviously'' Armorhide's tech-spec doesn't sound towards Huffer.
:::::::::So what you're saying is that the G1 Goldbug toy was in fact ''repurposed'' for a character '''wholly''' unrelated to the original Goldbug... who is also named Goldbug, also a Throttlebot and is part of the same continuity.
:::::::::The ''other'' option you're left with is that Goldbug is in fact a new character named Goldbug in the same continuity and the toy was ''not'' re-purposed as him... but instead it merely served as the same inspiration; like [[Mainframe (Animated)]] was ''inspired'' by [[Mainframe (G1)]], but the G1 toy is not a representation fo the Animated character (and this its tech-spec cannot simply be assumed to appear.)
:::::::::All this other noise about the vagueness, clouding issues etc etc etc... is irrelevant. It's got to be one of those two for your argument to hold water.
:::::::::And frankly, the first one is ''crazy'', and while the second one is a bit ''more'' plausible, I'm honestly blanking on any instance of us doing the 'inspiration' thing within the same continuity family... it's pretty much limited to cross-family homages and unused Dialcone/Microman toys. And in '''any''' case, the toy would '''still''' go in the trivia section as inspiration, so you shouldn't really be arguing for it's wholesale removal.
:::::::::Also, your statement that <tt>"There's no official statement that toy Goldbug = IDW Goldbug."</tt> is utterly meaningless. Your'e basically saying that unless a writer or editor posts "Yes, Chase was Chase the 1987 toy" we have to treat him as a separate character. No, just... '''no'''.
:::::::::Look, if you want to argue for how you think this page should be, fine, do it. But ''understand'' that you are suggesting a ''very'' unusual treatment for this page, and the burden of proof is on '''you''' to convince people. That means constructing actual ''arguments'', with supporting reasons. Not simply repeating "no, because I don't think it should be that way" again and again and again. Obstinance != convincing people.
:::::::::Unless you start making actual arguments, I'm not listening to you anymore. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:38, 13 August 2009 (EDT)
::::::::::"If the toy ''is'' that character, its information still counts unless specifically contradicted."
::::::::::So the fact that the tech spec claims Goldbug is Bee's mind in a remade body while the writers (and the story's timeline placement) indicate that IDW Goldbug is NOT IDW Bumblebee here isn't enough of a "contradiction" for you to put the rest in doubt? You and I have different threshholds of "contradiction", then.
::::::::::"So what you're saying is that the G1 Goldbug toy was in fact ''repurposed'' for a character '''wholly''' unrelated to the original Goldbug... who is also named Goldbug, also a Throttlebot and is part of the same continuity."
::::::::::This is entirely possible. It's just that we don't know for sure until we get at least a picture of him as that toy, which Sipher at least agrees with me about, so it's not like I'm the only person here saying this, for pity's sake, so stop acting like I am.
::::::::::"The ''other'' option you're left with is that Goldbug is in fact a new character named Goldbug in the same continuity and the toy was ''not'' re-purposed as him... but instead it merely served as the same inspiration;"
::::::::::That's ''exactly'' what I'm saying for the moment. The writers say Bumblebee and Goldbug are separate, and IDW Galvatron is ''also'' a character that was inspired by G1 Galvatron without also being him (so it's not like this is new). So I don't get people's burning need to make connections that even the writers state don't exist. I'm not sure how you can claim the tech spec applies either when a good chunk of it ''explicitly'' is not the case here, and thus including it would be inaccurate.
::::::::::And, I really don't get why people are claiming I'm "not making an argument". As far as I'm concerned, "If we decide a character is separate enough fiction-wise, then he must also be separate enough toy-wise as well unless the fiction we used to separate him by says otherwise" '''IS AN ARGUMENT'''. Only making a character halfway separate seems like being wishy-washy and fan assumptive at best, unless there's some canon support like at least getting a description or picture of the character with an altmode like the toy, a la something like the SG stories. And nobody's given me a good solid reason based on canon why that doesn't amount to "well, I think the toy applies anyway just because I feel it does" or "well, I think being wishy-washy is a good thing because it means we don't have to actually make up our minds whether the character is separate or not".
::::::::::I think this is all because fans have this burning thing that they can't accept everything not being tied together in a neat bow, even when they need made-up fanwank to do it. Let it go. Accept that sometimes stuff, even similar stuff, just is not connected because the writers didn't intend for it to be connected, so they didn't write it that way. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 08:49, 13 August 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::::There's precedent for one toy representing multiple characters. Namely, all of the pretenders having both English and Japanese pages. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 14:39, 13 August 2009 (EDT)
::::::::::::<nowiki>*</nowiki>facepalms* For the fiftieth time, I never said that one toy couldn't represent multiple characters. It's a question of whether a given toy ''officially'' represents more than one character or not. I'm assuming that the Pretender toys officially in canon represent both the English and Japanese characters, correct? But here we don't even have a pic of Goldbug looking like his toy to go from. People not paying attention to and reading what I'm saying is part of why I'm being so pissy, y'know. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 15:23, 13 August 2009 (EDT)

:This Goldbug thing is so crazy. It's really either all or nothing on the toy/toy bio. On the one hand I'm thinking, he's Goldbug the Throttlebot. The tech spec has to apply. He has the mind of Bumblebee? OK. We don't know how it happened. Freak orbital jump accident like the Star Trek episode with two Rikers? They are machines, so maybe Bumblebee's mind was copied at some point? On the other hand, he seems to be just new character that happens to be named Goldbug and is a Throttlebot. It doesn't make sense to incorporate anything we know of the Bumblebee Goldbug. That is the most straightforward approach, but something in me is unwilling to just say the tech spec Goldbug simply doesn't exist, so I'm coming down on the side of that this Goldbug has Bumblebee's mind somehow, whether he knows it or not.
:This is also why all the Goldbug stuff should be on one page, so we can just present Goldbug as the fiction does and let the reader make a determination from the facts. Having a separate IDW Goldbug page draws a line. Someone had an idea of a "Goldbug (G1)" page that simply links to Bumblebee's page where appropriate and I liked that idea a lot. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 00:35, 13 August 2009 (EDT)
::I think "he's a new character that happens to be named Goldbug and is a Throttlebot" makes perfect sense, considering that the writers have said he's separate, Galvatron is handled pretty much the same way, and there's zip in IDW canon so far that I can recall off-hand that shows any hint of mind-copying (and why would they use it on Bumblebee, of all people?). I think people just need to accept that sometimes a duck is just a duck and that not everything needs to be connected. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 00:43, 13 August 2009 (EDT)
:::Yea, that makes sense, except that if that is the case, I can't shake the idea that "tech spec Goldbug the Throttlebot" ''also'' exists, somewhere off-panel in the IDW universe. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]]
::::I still see the "Goldbug (G1) page linking to Bumblebee for the other continuities" as the easiest solution. It resolves the issue of the toy, it resolves the issue of the intro, and it resolves the issue of any potential future non-Bumblebee Goldbugs. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 01:38, 13 August 2009 (EDT)
"This page is 70 kilobytes long". I hate you all. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 03:10, 13 August 2009 (EDT)

:Well, the kids have to learn about Tekwar sooner or later. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:25, 13 August 2009 (EDT)

==Breaking down the problem==
I have read every... single... thing... in this whole discussion, from this page to [[Talk:Galvatron (G1)]] to the Community Portal, and I honestly think ''all'' of it is because Goldbug presents a unique collision of three basic page-organization principles:

# '''All versions of a character from the same continuity-family belong on the same page.''' ''(Therefore IDW-Galvatron is on [[Galvatron (G1)]].)''
# '''If a character changes identity but the "life story" is seamless, no new page is made.''' ''(Therefore there is no separate [[Rodimus Prime (G1)]] page.)''
# '''If one series-summary contains two separate "life stories," one should be broken out.''' ''(Therefore [[Galvatron II]] is separate from [[Galvatron (G1)]].)''

I'm not sure if these rules have ever been codified, but they're the underpinning of how we've built all of our character-pages so far. Judging by how the debate has gone, everyone has their own instinctive way of balancing them which they consider the "simple," "intuitive" answer, and everyone ''else'' is a dick for even suggesting an alternative.

Well, here's the problem: This page as currently written satisfies #2 and #3, but it leaves #1 in a strange limbo, which is the source of all the drama. On the face of it, some people think there's no problem at all - [[Goldbug (G1)]] is actually contained within [[Bumblebee (G1)]], and the IDW-Goldbug is separated out into [[Goldbug (IDW)]] by rule #3, so we're fine. But it's not so simple; we're right to separate IDW-Goldbug from [[Bumblebee (G1)]], but the principles ''don't'' support him being thrown out of the (for lack of a better term) "G1-Goldbug collective." This isn't just philoso-wankery; there are practical ramifications:

IDW-Goldbug and IDW-Galvatron have the ''exact same'' relation to their previous G1 incarnations. So if IDW-Galvy gets to live on a page with the original Galvy toy and an intro that reflects the other G1-Galvies, then IDW-Goldbug shouldn't be considered any differently. Yet, living in this "(IDW)" ghetto, he ''looks'' like he's been separated even more, and that's why the question of whether to put his toy here or incorporate the old bio is so contentious. Moreover, it's causing the debate to flow in the other direction, as people are considering throwing out principle #1 entirely and making a separate "Galvatron (IDW)" article and lord knows what else.

[[User:Jackpot/Sandbox/Goldbug (G1)|'''My solution''']] balances all three principles equally and provides a decisive answer to EVERY SINGLE POINT OF DEBATE:

*'''Should the Goldbug toy go here?''' ''(YES, since the article would represent all G1-Goldbugs.)''
*'''Should the old bio info be used in the intro?''' ''(YES, in the same vague, overarching, brush-over-the-contradictions way we do for every other character.)''
*'''Should IDW-Galvatron be separated?''' ''(NO, he violates none of the principles.)''
*'''Should the Goldbug info be moved out of [[Bumblebee (G1)]] or something?''' ''(NO, seamless life-stories should be kept whole.)

Is my solution more complicated than the current setup? Let's see how a reader would encounter information in my schema:

*If a reader searches for or follows a link to:
**'''Bumblebee (G1)''', he will find all the relevant Goldbug info there, exactly as it currently stands.
**'''Goldbug''', he'll be redirected to [[Goldbug (disambiguation)]], just like now.
**'''Goldbug (IDW)''', he'll be redirected to this page and find exactly what he's looking for.
**'''Goldbug (G1)''', he'll end up here and, assuming he was looking for the Bumblebee versions at all, will have a single extra click to go through.

That's IT. THAT'S the "complication" my solution causes: One extra click for a ''fraction'' of the readers. Meanwhile, it provides resolution to all of these debates, affirms the standards we already have, leaves the content of all articles unscathed, and provides a solid precedent for what to do the ''next'' time this inevitably happens (I'm looking at you, Rodimus).

Fuck YES, that's worth it. I'm not just pushing this because it's "my idea"; I think it is honest-to-gods The Right Answer. If there are valid critiques or more effective alternatives, I'm all ears, but I have yet to hear them. And if people think this is a mountain-out-of-a-molehill situation, well, I say this is a FANTASTIC opportunity to figure some shit out on a character who's relatively inconsequential, before we have to deal with it later on a hairier subject.

- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 04:38, 14 August 2009 (EDT)

:Looking at the recent constant arguments over this article, I am willing to change my mind and back your solution, as long as this talk page gets deleted. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 05:31, 14 August 2009 (EDT)
::Heh, well even after archiving the first two sections, it's STILL giving page-length warnings. So if this time we can finally resolve it all, I'll be happy to sweep more of this godawful debate under the archival rug. And, hey, thanks for the open-mindedness. It sounds selfish for me to say it because you're "joining my side," but honestly, I'm happy whenever people honestly listen to each other's ideas and are capable of adapting their own positions to find the objectively best answer. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 06:02, 14 August 2009 (EDT)
:::I read that yesterday and must say it did change my mind. I do like your approach and I throw my support behind it. [[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 06:08, 14 August 2009 (EDT)

::The original discussion got ''very'' off-track because of all the side-issues involved. (Which is a bit silly, because all of those issues can be handled individually, nothing about them required them to have "handled as a whole.") There were a lot of confusion about what this-or-that decision 'would mean' in terms of how they might set policy that would affect other articles and ambiguity about exactly the issues-at-hand ''were'' due to a host of complicating factors... which I think directly resulted in the original deadlock. (And frankly, an up-and-down vote should ''not'' have been called while people were still coming into the discussion and were so obviously struggling to understand the issues involved.)
::As I see it, there are 3 separate decisions that need to be made.
::# Should Marvel/Sunbow Goldbug be covered on the same page as Marvel/Sunbow Bumbelbee?
::# Should IDW Goldbug get covered on the same page as Marvel/Sunbow Goldbug?
::And if the answer to '''that''' decision is "no," then we have to answer;
::# Should the page for ''non-Bumblebee Goldbugs'' be "Goldbug (G1)" or "Goldbug (IDW)"?
::# Should the 1987 toy be included on the ''non-Bumblebee Goldbug'' page?
::I think people are a lot clearer on these issues in the wake of the argument(s) that sprang up and then ran themselves into the ground after the deadlock vote and we're now in a better position to form a consensus.
::But since it's been so contentious, we should ''probably'' do a voting poll to establish community consensus. Actually 2-4 ''separate'' polls, collapsing the open issues down one-by-one until a single solution is reached.
::It's a pain in the ass, but I '''strongly''' believe that reaching decision on the Galvatron article will go smoother if the related issues surrounding this Goldbug article are ''settled'' in a clear manner first.
::That's my two cents. But I've also been hip-deep in this debate so I'm not a neutral party. Which is why I'm floating the ''idea'' of a series of consensus-polls rather than simply calling one myself. I have a conflict-of-interest so I shouldn't be initiating action myself. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 06:13, 14 August 2009 (EDT)
:::Yeek. I completely understand where you're coming from, but I'm afraid that that'll end up being way more trouble than it's worth. Put it this way: If this time around, my proposal still doesn't get decisive support, then yeah, maybe multiple polls are the only option left. But if my proposal can get the community seal of approval right now, that'll be a ''huge'' breakthrough, and then we'll have all the time in the world to massage the nitpicky details of it. You voted in favor of the move before; can I assume you still favor it if, at least for the moment, it happens according to my sandbox model? - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 06:28, 14 August 2009 (EDT)
::::I agree with every one of your points, but not your sandbox proposal. I think the page (more-or-less as it's treated now) should be moved to "Goldbug (G1)" with some top-level links to Bumblebee, but '''not''' reproducing all those empty sections. The real '''reason''' we're separating this article out is ''not'' for convenience or filing purposes... we're separating it out because we feel that non-Bumblebee-Goldbug needs to be handled seperately from Bumblebee-Goldbug.
::::We wouldn't ''normally'' do that; "[[Scorponok (Energon)]]"'s article includes a Cybertronian Decepticon and a version of the character who '''isn't even a Transformer'''; he's a Quintesson. (Actually, it's a ''clone'' of a Quintesson created with memories implanted onto the spark of the deceased Decepticon Thrust.) We treat them as the same character.
::::Demonstrably major differences between incarnations of a character are ''not'' enough reason to spin them out into their own article... normally.
::::The reason we're doing it ''here'' stems from a differnt policy-- whena character changes names and forms... we don't split them out ''either''. So all the times Bee got rebuilt into Goldbug are covered in the "Bumblebee (G1)" article, because it makes more sense to present his history in a straight line rather than send readers back-and-forth between two articles as he swaps bodies back and forth.
::::Those are both good practices, enacted for obviosu and beneficial reasons. 99% of the time you can put them into action without any problem. But in ''this'' 1% of the time our practice of "move Goldbug's fiction to Bumblebee's article" is running smack-dab into the fact we now have a Goldbug who's ''not'' Bumblebee... so he ''can't'' go in "Bumblebee (G1)." Warring imperatives.
::::Your sandbox strikes me as in-name-but-not-action ''separating'' "Bumblebee (G1)" and "Goldbug (G1)," just with cute 'see this' aliases that render 70% of the article's length empty space. That's terrible. The only '''reason''' we're giving this it's own article is because we need somewhere to ''put'' "non-Bumblebee Goldbug." But you want to uglify the "non-Bumblebee Goldbug" article by spamming it with Bumblebee-Goldbug redirect-links, Bumblebee-Goldbug main images, and a bio that's not allowed to actually talk about non-Bumbleebee-Goldbug because it has to be slaves in service of "Go read this other article!" '''Plus''' it breaks every standard practice we have for toy sections. If this article is about all versions of G1 Goldbug... then it '''has''' to have all representations of the character on there, just like the Optimus Prime toy section has e-Hobby Orion Pax.
::::In pursuit of one ideal, I think your sandbox proposal stampedes over several over overs and (most importantly) does so in an ''inconsistent'' fashion. The page's entire ''raison d’état'' is to have a place to pus non-Bumblebee Goldbug. Your proposal does a '''tremendous dis-service''' to non-Bumblebee Goldbug--- turning his bio, mainpic, and 90% of his fiction section in re-direct links all '''completely irrelevant''' to non-Bumblebee Goldbug who-- let me restate-- is the ''entire'' reason this article exists. If this is such a crucial difference and it invalidates parts of his tech-spec, then he needs a ^&*() '''main bio''' that tells you what this unique version of the character is "about;" not to have his article annexed in the service of Bumblebee. In terms of encoded meanings... what I take away from your sandbox proposal is; "Look this version of the character is really stupid, and we resent having to deal with him so we're going to bury his ass in spam-links until he's lost in his own article while constantly sending you over to the '''real''' article; Bumblebee."
::::We agree on ''every'' principle you want to affirm... but we've reached ''wildly'' different conclusions on what end result those principles inevitably lead to. That's because they're struggling for primacy; which guiding principle 'wins' when they're in conflict? It's like the [[Wikipedia:3 Laws of Robotics|3 Laws of Robotics]]... the order-of-primacy you place on these principles in has a major affect on the outcome.
::::...which is why I think 1 big vote isn't gonna work. We need to bit off smaller chunks and narrow down 'the range of possibilities' for this page form A-Z where it currently is (with nothing decided) to F-H. (a range both of our approaches would fall under) and then make a decision on that.
::::But '''more important''' the whole original bru-ha-ha on this and other pages fundamentally stems from people not understanding, being confused by or disagreeing with such basic principles as "wildly alternate versions of characters go on the same page" and "when a character switches bodies/names in an otherwise linear fiction it goes ont he same page." And as a result we were suddenly fielding serious proposals to split out '''all''' of the IDW pages by people who didn't understand ''why'' Goldbug's example was so different (or just thought that's what the actual debate was about) or split off all the Hearts of Steel articles.
::::The 'basic principles' you outline at the beginning of this section based on precedent and how we treat other articles and then treat as a given... ''not everyone is clear on them.'' That's why I think we need people to vote to affirm ''those principles'' not a solution... and then demonstrate how those principles then ''lead'' to a single solution. (Or at least a finite set of equally-meritorious solutions from which to choose.)
::::Do you '''really''' want to start a discussion on how we treat Galvatron's article ''without'' people being on the same page on the fundamental issues? Think of it as a ''primer'' so that the Galvatron debate ''doesn't'' get derailed by arguments that "Hearts of Steel Scourge" co-existing with "Thundercracker" should determine how we treat Galvatron.
::::Dude, right now the "Galvatron (G1)" page includes all of ''Straxus-as-Galvatron's'' adventures from the Marvel comic but '''not''' ''Megatron-as-Galvatron's''s. if there isn't some basic understanding of the core issues going in, that discussion is going to be a '''bloodbath'''. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:35, 14 August 2009 (EDT)
:::::<nowiki>*</nowiki>squints and goes cross-eyed* ...I ''think'' Derik managed to articulate why something seemed off/wrong to me about your sandbox proposal, which I couldn't manage to explain myself at the time. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 08:06, 14 August 2009 (EDT)

:::::I'm not going to respond to everything you said, since I think I've already laid out almost all of my case as best as I can above. We have disagreements; maybe we can work them out some other time. I'll just say two things:
:::::1) It's not that I think IDW-Goldbug is worthless and should be "buried," it's that I think the meta-G1-Goldbug should be acknowledged. As I see it, the concept of IDW-Goldbug isn't a head-to-toe rejection of G1-Goldbug; it's an ''expansion'' of what G1-Goldbug can be. It's similar to how ''Spotlight: Ultra Magnus'' expanded the idea of Ultra Magnus to include an interstellar-sheriff possibility. So my solution serves that idea by bringing the meta-G1-Goldbug stuff into the article while NOT burying IDW-Goldbug underneath a bunch of Marvel and Sunbow details that are better covered elsewhere.
:::::2) I'm surprised you think our preferred ends are "wildly different." Based on what you said before, I thought you favored the same solution, just with the Marvel and Sunbow sections fleshed out too. Maybe that counts as a huge chasm to you; it doesn't to me. It's what I consider a detail capable of being "massaged" after the move in more low-impact discussions. (For instance, the idea of repeating the info between articles hasn't really been talked about... there are possibilities.) So what you see as loggerheads, I see as small potatoes compared to the benefits of just getting this thing moved into a less controversial space.
:::::And that's probably the last I'm going to say about most of this. I think I've described my stance from just about every angle, and anything more would be repetition. Like I said, I don't think you and I are so far apart, but shrug. At this point, I'm content to let the chips... ''FALL WHERE THEY MAY!''
:::::- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 13:29, 14 August 2009 (EDT)

::I ''think'' a big part of my problem was that I didn't want the Bumblebee-as-Goldbug info pulled out of Bumblebee's page, I'm honestly having trouble remembering now. I see this as a good solution. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 12:34, 14 August 2009 (EDT)
I'm in favor of Jackpot's sandboxed solution. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:15, 14 August 2009 (EDT)

I too favor Jackpot's sandboxed solution. Any questions about specific details of the page (i.e. leaving the Marvel/Sunbow sections as pure redirects vs. putting some or all of the information there, etc.) can be ironed out after the move. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 13:55, 14 August 2009 (EDT)
:Hey, that sounds an awful lot like "let's settle the question in ''chunks'' instead of voting on single solutions." If only someone who didn't have a conflict of interest (read: not myself) would call for a poll-for-consensus vote about "Goldbug (IDW)" vs. "Goldbug (G1)," so that we could settle ''that'' issue, then move on to the actual page contents... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:34, 14 August 2009 (EDT)

Just to be formal about it, I don't favor Jackpot's sandbox proposal for much of what Derik said above - it's a wishy-washy "Well, I don't ''wanna'' separate him out, but if you're gonna make me anyway..." setup that basically has Goldbug-as-Bee info on Bee's page and IDW Goldbug-that's-not-Bee info on its own page... which is exactly what we have now anyway, just right now it's in a much clearer and better-representing format. 
Basically, I say either all of IDW Goldbug's info goes on Bee's page, IDW Goldbug stays completely separate based on his fiction info alone, or every bit of Goldbug info gets separated out onto its own page. I honestly don't know which would work best; I just know that I see no point in weird half-hearted info-splitting that doesn't commit to anything because we can't make a choice and stick to it. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:21, 14 August 2009 (EDT)
: Only Sith believe in absolutes! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:24, 14 August 2009 (EDT)
:: ...wasn't Anakin's ''entire'' descent to the dark side charted by shades-of-gray "for the greater good" sacrifices to bring about a utopian society ruled by a benevolent dictator who could end suffering? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:34, 14 August 2009 (EDT)
:::It's almost like George Lucas is a hack! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:52, 14 August 2009 (EDT)
::::Or Obi-wan is externalizing his dissatisfaction with the Jedi order's unhealthy '''obsession''' with absolutes (you're not allowed to fall in love or have close friendships because they lead to fear -> anger -> hate -> suffering...) and projecting is onto their enemies!
::::...though Lucas being a hack ''is'' much more likely. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:55, 14 August 2009 (EDT)

:What you see as "wishy-washy," I see as "balanced." You want to see us make a hard choice between three extremes, but I think the true solution recognizes the inherently soft situation for what it is. I see each extreme doing a greater disservice than the middle ground that gives all three principles equal weight. But, as with Derik above, I can't think of a different way to explain my reasoning, so I'm not going to try again. I'm sorry we can't see eye-to-eye on this one. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 18:50, 14 August 2009 (EDT)
::I agree. If it is "wishy-washy," than it matches how Goldbug is presented as a character, which is a bit mushy. Solidifying the articles draws conclusions that aren't there. For example, making "IDW Goldbug stay completely separate based on his fiction info alone," draws the conclusion that he has nothing at all to do with his original bio, which is an unwarranted assumption. Putting everything on Bumblebee's page does not recognize that IDW has two separate characters. I am more in favor of putting every bit of Goldbug on the Goldbug page, actually, but what Jackpot proposes is a good second choice. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 19:39, 14 August 2009 (EDT)
:::Well, if there's nothing that lets us treat him as truly separate, then that means he either belongs on the Bee page, or all of the Goldbug info belongs on a separate page, with "See: Goldbug" links in the right spot on Bee's page..
:::But Jackpot's solution is useless, as it pretty much says, "Everything about Goldbug is on Bee's page except this IDW info." So, uh, how is that better than what we have now, which is... a page full of just the IDW info, because that's the only info that's separate. If 90% of the time we're going to have people go to a Goldbug (G1) page just to find out that all the info is on Bee's page, that's what the nice redirect we already have is for. Then the other 10% of the time they can click on the nice disambig we also already have and get the SG or IDW pages.
:::I'm only in favor of change if it actually does something different and better than the status quo. Jackpot's sandbox idea fulfills neither requirement. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:52, 14 August 2009 (EDT)

Thinking outside the box, can we have Goldbug (G1) information be a sub-page of the Bumblebee (G1) page somehow, like 2009 comics is a sub page of [[2009]]? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 18:11, 5 September 2009 (EDT)
:What I was thinking, is it possible for one sub-page to go to two main pages? We could have a <strike>"Goldbug (Marvel comics)"</strike> "Goldbug (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity" sub-page that automatically puts the same information on the "Bumblebee (G1)" page and the "Goldbug (G1)" page in the appropriate places. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 18:46, 5 September 2009 (EDT)

Talk:Goldbug (IDW)

2011-01-02T19:06:51Z

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== ''Transformers'' Gold Bumblebee ==

So what do you think? Is "[[Bumblebee (G1)/toys#Transformers (2010)|Gold Bumblebee]]" really "Goldbug" under a different name? Should the toy be included here? Just throwing the idea out there. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 23:09, 30 October 2010 (EDT)
:I would think his name being "Gold Bumblebee" would preclude him from being a character who isn't Bumblebee. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 23:35, 30 October 2010 (EDT)
::Good point. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:26, 31 October 2010 (EDT)
:::I think we should add that toy anyway since it's supposed to be Goldbug and judging from the name Hasbro gave it, I don't see a toy named Goldbug anytime soon.-[[User:ACIDSTORM92|ACIDSTORM92]] 17:49, 1 December 2010 (EST)
::::If that toy represents any "Goldbug" it is "Goldbug who used to be Bumblebee" while this page is "Goldbug who was never Bumblebee". That seems like reason enough to keep it off this page (and on Bumblebee's), but then again that same reason didn't suffice for the original Goldbug toy (see below). --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 17:51, 1 December 2010 (EST)

== Guys, guys..... ==

Can we ''please'' remove the toy? He has never appeared in that form, EVER. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 16:25, 31 October 2010 (EDT)
:That would give the impression that IDW made him up. It would fail to acknowledge the link between IDW Goldbug and his G1 Throttlebot origins. The IDW story involves the Throttlebots which were a subgroup of Autobots with the same gimmick. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:35, 31 October 2010 (EDT)
::I'm with Blackout on this one. That toy does not match the representation of the character in any of his appearances. A simple note (like the one that was removed earlier today) would cover the connection. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 16:45, 31 October 2010 (EDT)
:::We already went over this a year ago, and it seems it was decided the toy would stay. By this same logic, the other IDW Throttlebots should be split off into their own toy-free pages for not having appeared in Earth forms yet. Fact of the matter is, we've got a character in a G1 continuity named Goldbug who shares clear similarities with the G1 toy Goldbug. He's meant to represent that toy. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 17:48, 31 October 2010 (EDT)
::::The original toy is of a Goldbug who was Bumblebee, this is Goldbug who was never Bumblebee. The other Throttlebots are the same characters as their old toys. But apparently consensus is against me on this, so I won't press the issue. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 20:15, 31 October 2010 (EDT)
:This matter was dealt with already, as you can see in the miles of text above. Please do not bring it up again. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 17:52, 31 October 2010 (EDT)

Talk:Goldbug (IDW)

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==A Generalized IDW Character Split?==

I think a lot of our recent big discussions have had a common theme: that we're finding the gaps in our "every character from a G1 continuity family gets lumped together" policy. It doesn't work when it lumps Alternators Nemesis Prime with Classicsverse Nemesis Prime, it doesn't work especially well for Goldbug, and it probably doesn't work overly well in our current treatment of IDW Galvatron. So yes, I do think we'll have some foundations for policy here when the dust finally settles.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 16:46, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
:Yeah, I definitely think you're on the right track. I'd also like to throw [[Scorponok (G1)]] in the mix, since I personally think his North American and Japanese portrayals are different enough to warrant separation. (Probably [[Fortress Maximus (G1)]] too.) If we're going to start splitting more hairs than we have in the past, we need to consider as many borderline cases as we can to find common principles. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 16:55, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
::Hearts of Steel characters are almost definitely applicable. Heck, even though we had that discussion before I'd say they're an easier decision to split off.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 17:05, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
:::I really do think we should split articles for characters that are basically the same but very different from the original or oversees incarnation. And I kinda vote for the idw incarnations being split off and carry the HOS stuff on them too. [[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 17:10, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
::::I mentioned it on the Galvatron page, but I figure it's applicable in this discussion too (perhaps moreso, given the direction it's taking): completely alternate universe takes like Hearts of Steel notwithstanding, either we move all of the IDW characters to their own pages, or we keep them all on G1. Stop with this bullshit of picking and choosing based on arbitrary reasoning (and really, it IS pretty arbitrary - many of the arguments made for removing the toy information from this page can be made about dozens of characters in just about every continuity). It doesn't follow policy, it doesn't follow standards, and it's confusing as hell. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 18:12, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
:::::''"either we move all of the IDW characters to their own pages"''
:::::This had '''better''' be a joke. Also, the idea of giving characters who appear in HOS individual pages? '''''NO.''''' And shame on you for even thinking it. Splitting every character to appear in an IDW book is possibly the most fucking stupid idea I've ever heard proposed on this wiki. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 18:23, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
::::::What Sipher said. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 18:25, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
::::::I've heard stupider ideas... I'm just blanking on them now.
::::::Here's my problem-- "Goldbug (IDW)" means that if any future fiction writes a non-Bumblebee Goldbug, we end up with another article named "Goldbug (Image)" or "Goldbug (Devils Due)." Normally those would just be sections on a Goldbug character page.
::::::This is basically splitting out a character section in a publisher-specific way, which is why I think it should be "(G1)". -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:33, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
:::::::I agree, it's ridiculous. But picking and choosing certain IDW characters for their own pages just because one or two people think they're a little TOO different is even more ridiculous. I mean, come on. We were seriously arguing about whether or not Goldbug's toy should be on Goldbug's page just because he happens to not be Bumblebee for once (a trend IDW has been showing since Spotlight: Galvatron) and because his single appearance just so happened to have a different vehicle mode because he wasn't on Earth. And NOW we're debating on whether or not Galvatron gets his own page because he just happens to not be Megatron in this continuity. As I and others have said, it's all about consistency. So either we CONSISTENTLY put all the IDW characters on (IDW) pages, or we CONSISTENTLY put them all on (G1) pages. Trying to go halfsies and put some on G1 and some on IDW based on personal preference and interpretation is absurd. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 18:39, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
::::::::Actually, I was arguing that, if a character is separate enough to get his own page, he's also separate enough that we can't assume the toys for the character(s) we just separated from automatically still apply. Whether a character ''is'' separate enough to get his own page or not is an entirely different question. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:07, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
::::::::I don't think it's accurate to say we're <tt>"picking and choosing certain IDW characters for their own pages just because one or two people think they're a little TOO different."</tt> After examining the situation, I'm convinced that Goldbug-separate-from-Bumblebee ''does'' need his own page. The question is simply what the page should be named.
::::::::A question which has been clouded by issues of disambiguation-by-continuity-family vs. by-publisher, what the definition of 'repurposing' is, how much sway tech-specs have, how to handle characters who change their names, and (I think) at least some desire to punish IDW for this pointless retcon by de-legitimizing their character. (I have no idea if Jeysie feels that way... but '''*I*''' certainly feel an urge to be petty about it.) But those are all page-'''internal''' matters. What decision (if any) is made in regard to them does not affect what name the page will ultimately have... it's just that the original discussion has exploded into a storm of all these side-issue. (Which in turn have offered an opportunity to re-open old debates about other pages, etc.)
::::::::It'll all work out. There will be shouting matches and crazy examples, Hoop will insult your mom and I will make a fool of myself at least three times before we eventually work our way back to actual discussion and (probably) discover that somewhere in all the snarling an actual consensus we can all agree on ''has'' formed and the wiki can move forward.
::::::::It's a stupid system, but it does ''eventually'' work. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:22, 13 August 2009 (EDT)
:::Hearts of Steel?! WHY? There's NOTHING different about the characters themselves -- just the timing of when they arrive on Earth. If you were going to write up the intro paragraph for a HOS Bumblebee, what would you write that would be ANY different than G1 Bumblebee? The answer should be "nothing", and that's a pretty good litmus test right there. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 10:08, 12 August 2009 (EDT)

WOW. I never figured that it'd come to this. OK, deep breath. I think that Derik's point about 'if there is a future Goldbug who isn't Bumblebee' is an excellent one, vis a vis *IF* he's going to live in his own article, it should be at a sensible name. I also couldn't agree more with M Sipher and ItsWalky about the absurdity of trying to break out *EVERY* IDW version of each character. Pretty soon we're going to have a different article for every possible iteration of every character, and that's lunacy. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 19:05, 11 August 2009 (EDT)

:Yeah, I've gotta say, Derik's point about possible future non-Bumblebee Goldbug's is a good one, and certainly the most convincing argument yet. I would say, however, that generally speaking, we don't base our disambigs around what MIGHT happen - if we did that, ''everything'' would have a disambig, even the guys who don't need one, because they MIGHT in the future. I'm still sticking with "Leave it where it is for now," and move it if Derik's hypothetical comes to pass. 100% with Sipher, Walky, Jim and whoever on the notion of splitting off IDW or HOS or anything like that. That's just ''dumb'', guy. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 19:42, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
::And that's why I favor a Goldbug (G1) article. Whether or not the Goldbug-as-Bumblebee info is moved there or if the page simply links to Bumblebee for those continuities is another issue and is a discussion that could probably be saved for that page when it gets made. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 19:44, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
:::I love you, Dark T Zeratul, and I WILL have your babies, whether you like it or not.
:::Chris, I would agree with you except for that what you might think "isn't broken" is actually setting a very real, potentially very bad precedent right now that's having immediate effects. The fact that the debate is spreading to [[Galvatron (G1)]] and beyond is no accident. We're sending mixed signals by keeping the article the way it is, and it WILL keep causing problems. Derik's hypothetical is very useful: It exposes the key flaw. My solution is simple, clean, and affirms the current system, nipping lots of potential policy problems in the bud.
:::- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 19:56, 11 August 2009 (EDT)

Ever wonder if they write the comics with this kind of thing in mind?
:"Just what can we do that'll screw up their classification system a bit more?"
:"I know, we'll add another [[Fasttrack (IDW)|Fasttrack]] and a [[Dropshot (Universe)|Dropshot]], then we'll make Goldbug a whole new character! They'll be arguing over those parenthicals for weeks!"
:"Excellent. Our work here is done."
Sometimes kinda seems that way. Just sayin'. --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 19:36, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
::"If we ever got another Sideays, ''technically'' we'd have to move this one to Sideways (RID)" was a recurring joke. (I think it even ended up on our Disambiguation policy page as an example.) Then Hasbro slapped the name on a character with ''literally'' 30 seconds of screentime.
::I'm not saying it's a conspiracy or 'nuthin... bit it's enough to make you stop and think. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:26, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
:Somehow, I don't think they put basically any thought into such things. I mean, really, does Goldbug do anything in the comic that virtually any other random Autobot couldn't? Would the story ''really'' be any different with only five Throttlebots and Rollbar in charge? It feels like a "just do the first thing that pops into the head that sounds kinda cool". --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:44, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
::Sadly, that could probably be applied to a great number of characters in a great number of stories. A few are very well fleshed out, and most are fairly generic. Either way, this was clearly intended to be the same Goldbug rather than an entirely new character. The only exception is that he didn't used to be Bumblebee, which as I pointed out earlier is an ongoing trend with IDW (Galvatron and Cyclonus so far, and probably Scourge when/if he shows up). -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 19:48, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
:Oh if they were doing it intentionally, they could do much much worse than that. "Oh, hey, here's G1 Demolishor! Now we're going to heavily imply he's actually UT Demolishor displaced from his own universe! No, wait, he's Shattered Glass Demolishor? Ah, we're just screwin with ya. he really is G1 Demolishor" --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:53, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
:Emvee, they're not trying to fuck with us. I assure you, everyone at IDW is just trying to tell fun, interesting stories. And if that sometimes results in giant arguments among us, well, so be it. I think there's a bit of tendency among us, as editors, to think that somehow our understanding of how the TF Universe is organized is binding in some way. It's not. We're just categorizing what's being produced. That's why I think Jeysie's interpretation of toys or no toys on this page were so off-base - because us breaking out Goldbug in IDW ORGANIZATIONALLY from Goldbug in earlier continuities was a construct OF OURS. It didn't reflect any underlying "reality" of the character.
:Basically, we sometimes need to get off our collective high horses a bit. (All of us, myself included.) --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 20:05, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
::Yeah, in the end there are really only two concerns we should have here:
::*Is the result we end up with going to make the information easy to find for our readers?
::*If we develop a standard to go with it, is it easy for editors to apply in a pinch?
::Otherwise we can argue 'till we're blue in the face about the content creators "making work for us," but it ultimately doesn't matter regarding the goals ''any'' good wiki should have.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 20:09, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
::Over on the IDW boards, there was a complaint about how vague [[Bumper (G1)|Bumper]]'s death in [[Megatron Origin]] was, and I was filled with a horrible dread that the plan is to reveal Goldbug as the resurrected Bumper. If I worked at IDW and wanted to make trouble here, that would be my number one priority. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 20:21, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
:::I'll be sure to mention that to Andy. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 20:29, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
::::Having just re-read the issue, I find Hubcap more likely. *thumbs up* -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:19, 12 August 2009 (EDT)
::::Now that I've read over the "discussion" regarding Goldbug, I'm kicking myself on not asking Andy regarding Goldbug's status during SDCC. *facepalm* --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 03:01, 12 August 2009 (EDT)
::Yeah, I know Jim, it's just that it does feel s bit like that sometimes. And I know if I was writing the comics, it's the sort of thing I'd do because I'm a bit evil :) --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 03:41, 12 August 2009 (EDT)
..."Goldbug (G1)/IDW comic continuity"? Just throwing that out there. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 02:23, 12 August 2009 (EDT)
:Goldbug 2? [[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 02:44, 12 August 2009 (EDT)

:''*throws it back*'' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:45, 12 August 2009 (EDT)

== Changed Intro ==
This is getting completely stupid. Even if some people think his toy somehow applies, assuming his old tech spec applies is definitely fanon. Can we possibly please stick to, y'know, writing about what actually happened in canon and stop making stuff up? --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 20:06, 12 August 2009 (EDT)
:'''IF''' this page stays here, then I agree; the fiction should be taken exclusively from his IDW appearances. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 21:50, 12 August 2009 (EDT)
::Yes, Derik, it's not like you're well known for pulling stuff out of your ass based on completely stretching fanon interpretations of things or anything. Now, if someone with a better track record wants to make a case to me... (I can rebut every one of your footnotes if you really want. But just one instance off-hand, Goldbug even says himself that he's optimistic, and it's Sixshot specifically that makes him apprehensive, so how do you get he's "gloomy" out of that. As if Sixshot doesn't make ''everybody'' apprehensive?) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:38, 12 August 2009 (EDT)

<div style="font-family:cursive;padding:.5em 2em;">Dearest Jeysie, 
Per your request, I have [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Goldbug_%28IDW%29&oldid=350786 sourced my revision of Goldbug's bio.] As you can see, about 85% of it came directly from the issue itself. (Which would have been obvious if you'd bothered to ''compare'' the text to the issue instead of just deleting it with a claim that I was drawing from his tech-spec.) 
The other 15% comes from his tech-spec. I don't think you have a consensus to back your conviction that The 1987 toy isn't a representation of IDW Goldbug, so it's fair play. If you want to argue that Goldbug's fuel efficiency and underwater capabilities are "inherited" from Bumblebee and thus he would not have them if he was never Bumblebee... well I ''disagree'', but I might be willing to be convinced on the subject. If, however, you want to argue that the tech-spec can't count because the toy doesn't belong on the page (I'm not putting words in your mouth, it's merely an inference fromt he fact you [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Goldbug_%28IDW%29&diff=336699&oldid=336697 attempted to remove] the toy only to have your edit reverted, and have insisted 4 times on this talk page that the toy should be removed or should not count because <tt>"There's no official statement that toy Goldbug = IDW Goldbug."</tt>) it appears to me that this matter is still up for debate, and I don't think you should be treating it like a settled matter.
::cordial as always,
:-[[User:Derik|Derik]]</div>

:''I can rebut every one of your footnotes if you really want.''
:...seriously, you can rebut footnote #1 on my revision? The one citing that the character's name is Goldbug?
:(I want to see this.)
:Very well, I accept your challenge! If you can refute footnote #1, then I will '''not only''' go with your version of the article, but I will '''also''' support your initiative to remove Goldbug's toy from the page! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:57, 12 August 2009 (EDT)

* 'I knew the lab's work was important because the other Throttlebots and I were there as couriers to keep the work from falling into enemy's hands.', 'There's no one faster or better at evading the enemy than us [...]' 'We were never in the command center, kept separate to keep the work secret.' '...we're the only survivors of a mission I never even have clearance to know about.' - covered in the current intro.
* 'Adaptable to underwater, cold and hot environments. Can withstand temperatures from -150 to 180 degrees Fahrenheit.', 'Inversion of 'Realizes what others think of him isn't nearly as important as what he thinks of himself.', 'Inversion of Excellent fuel efficiency; 2 1/2 times better than the next best Throttlebot.' based Goldbug's 1987 tech-spec. - Not applicable, since there's no canon evidence that his techspec still applies, toy or no toy.
* Neither snow, nor rain, nor heat, nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds. Herodotus on the Persian system of military couriers ~2500 years ago, The Histories - You're kidding? Out-of-Transformers source, thus not applicable.
* 'I try to keep my optimism on max, but this is Sixshot.' 'We should be dead. All of us...' 'Goldbug's despairing internal monologue is a sharp contrast to what his resolute spoken dialog throughout "Spotlight: Metroplex.' - Again, he's generally optimistic, it's just Sixshot specifically that makes him nervous because Sixshot makes everyone nervous (especially after you've already seen him blow up a space station).
* The only order Goldbug gives in "Spotlight: Metroplex" is to "hold [the shuttle] steady" as it's crashing and "roll for it" when the Throttlebots scramble to escape Sixshot. (Besides, what use does a unit of couriers have for a commander? It's not like they work in teams.) - Fanon supposition. At ''best'' it's an Error or Trivia.
* 'All of the Throttlebots except the notably slow Wideload display these jets on pages 4+7 of "Spotlight: Metroplex"' - Just because they have jets doesn't mean we know what they do/are for unless the fiction says so.

But I guess this changed into the "let's write up random fanon supposition" wiki when I wasn't looking? Like I said, considering your track record on pages like Omniverse, SG Ruckus, that weird BW thing you pulled out of thin air, and a multitude of other instances, you'll pardon me if I don't take your supposition seriously. But if anyone else has a good case... --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:03, 12 August 2009 (EDT)
:Addendum: The rest of it is random quotes that could be read a number of different ways, or, in the case of Footnote 1, you being a smartass, which I have no patience for. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:09, 12 August 2009 (EDT)
::''*phew*'' Man, I'm ''glad'' you decided to be pissy about this!
::See, I didn't realize until ''after'' I posted my challenge that you had actually only promised to '''rebut''' all my footnotes, not '''refute''' them. A rebuttal is just a ''response'', it wouldn't even have to be logical or proove anything; you could have said "This character is not named Goldbug because he could actually be [[Scourge (BW)|Scourge]] in disguise" and I would have been '''honor bound''' to support your re-vision of the page and lobby for the toy's removal.
::(I would have done it too. I'm a man of my word.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:25, 12 August 2009 (EDT)
:::It's a rebuttal because I'm willing to entertain the idea that my finding your footnote "proof" extremely dubious is actually incorrect. Provided it's proven to me in a logical and straightforward manner. If you had responded here with a civil logical comment on why you felt your intro (that you even stated in your summary was based at least partly on his tech specs) was nevertheless applicable, we could have a nice, productive conversation.
:::I'm not unreasonable to people who act reasonably. But if you're going to be a smartass, I've got no problems with being pissy about it. The TF fandom has tried my patience for dealing with that sort of crap at this point. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:39, 12 August 2009 (EDT)
::::Oh no no... I'm not disagreeing about ''that''. What you presented was definitely a rebuttal to footnotes 2, 3, 4, 5, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 20. I do not argue with that.
::::However when I accepted your challenge, it was specific to you rebutting footnote #1, which you (thankfully) passed on. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:03, 13 August 2009 (EDT)
:::::Considering I'd be very disappointed if you supported me without genuinely agreeing with my stance, I'm not particularly fussed either way. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 00:21, 13 August 2009 (EDT)

::::::Why not? I can argue for things I don't agree with ''now''. That's healthy, it's part of being able to see things from another people's perspective.
::::::For example; I could argue that because S:M Goldbug:
::::::* Has a different color scheme, not present in the toy or any previous character model, more akin to the original Bumblebee model;
::::::* Possesses a transformation scheme completely unlike the 1987 toy;
::::::* Has a pelvis based on G1 Jazz and G1 Sideswipe's Sunbow animation models;
::::::* Is 'more redesigned' than any of the other Throttlebots in S:M, possessing more anomalous details;
::::::* Does not match his tech-spec in function, attitude, role or relation to G1 Bumblebee;
::::::...that S:M Goldbug is ''not'' based on the 1987 toy, but is in fact a ''new'' character-design melange'd from several toys, character models and characterizations that ''while inspired'' by the 1987 toy much as Shattered Glass Goldbug is... can ''not'' actually said to be an incarnation of that same character.
::::::I don't find that argument ''particularly'' compelling... but I have to admit that when you start rattling off '''all''' the influences that seem to have gone into the character and '''all''' the ways he ''doesn't'' draw from anything that came before, there are enough accumulated bits to give me pause. If you made a strong enough case beyond these 'bits about why this character should be treated that way... I might allow myself to be persuaded.
::::::The thing is... you're not '''doing''' that. I don't feel a lot of give-and-take in your arguments or revisions. You can't just say "no" without dialoging There has be be ''give'' on both sides for there to be ''consensus''. This is '''not''' a game of "I advance my perspective, and it is 100% correct or 100% incorrect. Let us stage an up-or-down vote."
::::::And when you "rebutted every one of my footnotes", you ''didn't'' bother to present arguments against 6, 7, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 or 19-- but you still felt free to remove the portion that states he's "gloomy on the inside but presents a more up-beat joking public face." I mean-- '''fergods sake'''. It's right there, he was experiencing doubts that the Autobots had already lost the war ''prior'' to Sixshot's attack.
::::::And SUFFERING SHAD, did you ''actually'' say that "Just because the Throttlebots have jets doesn't mean we can say they make them go fast"?
::::::'''FUCK. THAT. SHIT.''' If you're going to insult me ''at least'' offer a disingenuous argument like "how do we know those aren't the afterimages of running lights?"
::::::Here's a ''mind blowing'' concept; how about saying- "I see where you're going with those jets Derik, but I think you're going too far to say for certain that they're short-range, or that they're for evasion. That needs to be ''eased that back a bit'' before I'm comfortable with it." You know-- try '''building consensus''' from different point of views instead of slapping down everyone's but your own?
::::::I'm '''not''' placing the burden on you do do the work of resolving this, but when you simply revert my edits and say "keep your fannon shit out of the article" and followup with a point-by-point rebuttal that basically says "I wholly reject your reality and deny that your edits have any basis at all" you are leaving ''no'' ground for discussion.
::::::I don't think you're "playing nice" with your fellow editors. And it's extremely irritating.
::::::It's working against you too. You've been arguing that it's "inappropriate for the wiki" to include the Goldbug toy in this article for 4 days... and getting ''very little'' traction with users who feel that removing it would remove relevant information. I think you'd get a much ''better'' response if you suggested moving the toy to the trivia section like we do with [[Enemy|some characters]] when it's not clear a toy can be legitimately said to 'be' someone. (You know; a compromise! As in 'give and take.' As in 'consensus.') I might be willing to entertain the suggestion if for no other reason than I think your fixation on this point is blocking anyone else from moving forward with this article.
::::::We've been arguing about it for '''four days''' and until I took a whack at his bio this afternoon the entire article consisted of "Goldbug is the leader of the Throttlebots" and some <nowiki>{{stub}}</nowiki> tags! Be part of the process or get out of the way. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:00, 13 August 2009 (EDT)
:::::::I'm more than willing to allow for compromise when I think I might be wrong on something. I'm actually not sure if I could make a good argument or not that if by wiki standards Goldbug even ''should'' be separated from Bumblebee, or if every G1 Goldbug should be on the same page, so I actually have no real opinion on that aspect of things.
:::::::What I ''am'' saying, and have been saying all along is that, ''if'' we decide, according to the fiction, that a character is different enough to be separated, then I think that means that we have to choose whether a toy belongs or not on the new page also based on the fiction. I would take that stance on any particular situation that brought it up; it just happened to be this one.
:::::::It's not my problem if other people didn't write up a certain thing. I've had other things I've been working on. And other folks could have easily reverted my edit saying they thought you were right, or posted on the talk page here saying as much. But they haven't yet.
:::::::When I altered your edits you could have made a civil argument here stating why you thought you were right. Instead you reinstated it with a ridiculous footnote thing to make a smartass point. So you'll pardon me if I feel no need to sugarcoat things to spare your feelings. I think what you posted was fan supposition and I find your justifications dubious, and I feel no need to pretend to feel otherwise. If other people think I'm wrong and overrule me, so be it. But all I've heard so far is you being smart alecky and throwing fits, which makes me even less inclined to be nice to you.
:::::::Not to mention that making all this dumb fuss over a bit of info that's not even remotely important enough to put on the page if we can't verify it makes me want to borrow Sipher's bag of soap. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 02:42, 13 August 2009 (EDT)
::::::::''you reinstated it with a ridiculous footnote thing to make a smartass point.''
::::::::Your original note on the reversion was, and I ''quote'': <tt>"...where did you get *any* of that from his actual fiction appearance?"</tt>
::::::::Sounds like a request to provide citation to me. And '''more''' to the point, it sounds like your original basis for the reversion was that I was drawing from the toy tech-spec, and you don't think the toy counts, therefore I'm not allowed to use it in the bio despite the general lack of support for your "the toy doesn't count" thing.
::::::::Also, if there ''is'' a pillowcase-beating in my future, may I respectfully request Irish Spring? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:02, 13 August 2009 (EDT)
::::::::Because even if we decide the toy applies, that still doesn't prove that the ''tech spec'' applies. Especially considering that one, tech specs don't necessarily match fiction even when the toy does definitely match, and considering the fiction is the entire justification for the split to begin with, that's what we need to go by, not the toy. And two, considering that Goldbug's tech specs state he's got Bumblebee's mind, and at best we don't know if that's the case, and at worst we know that the writers have explicitly said he's not Bumblebee, that casts even more question on whether the rest of the tech spec bio necessarily applies or not.
::::::::(Sorry for all the "considerings".) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 03:20, 13 August 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::'s not problem.
:::::::::See-- I ''get'' that that's your argument. But momentarily bypassing whether or not the toy 'counts', I'm stuck on "even if we decide the toy applies, that still doesn't prove that the ''tech spec'' applies."
:::::::::I don't think it ''works'' that way. Just because [[Beast Changer]]'s tech-spec doesn't match the show doesn't mean that we doubt his tech-spec's information about his claws ability to rip through synthetic alloys or that his dragon scales are tougher than any Vehicon armor. If the toy ''is'' that character, its information still counts unless specifically contradicted.
:::::::::The '''only''' time a tech-spec would ''completely not count'' is when a toy was [[repurposing|repurposed]] as another character like [[Armorhide (Movie)|Armorhide]] was as [[Huffer (SG)|Huffer]]. ''Obviously'' Armorhide's tech-spec doesn't sound towards Huffer.
:::::::::So what you're saying is that the G1 Goldbug toy was in fact ''repurposed'' for a character '''wholly''' unrelated to the original Goldbug... who is also named Goldbug, also a Throttlebot and is part of the same continuity.
:::::::::The ''other'' option you're left with is that Goldbug is in fact a new character named Goldbug in the same continuity and the toy was ''not'' re-purposed as him... but instead it merely served as the same inspiration; like [[Mainframe (Animated)]] was ''inspired'' by [[Mainframe (G1)]], but the G1 toy is not a representation fo the Animated character (and this its tech-spec cannot simply be assumed to appear.)
:::::::::All this other noise about the vagueness, clouding issues etc etc etc... is irrelevant. It's got to be one of those two for your argument to hold water.
:::::::::And frankly, the first one is ''crazy'', and while the second one is a bit ''more'' plausible, I'm honestly blanking on any instance of us doing the 'inspiration' thing within the same continuity family... it's pretty much limited to cross-family homages and unused Dialcone/Microman toys. And in '''any''' case, the toy would '''still''' go in the trivia section as inspiration, so you shouldn't really be arguing for it's wholesale removal.
:::::::::Also, your statement that <tt>"There's no official statement that toy Goldbug = IDW Goldbug."</tt> is utterly meaningless. Your'e basically saying that unless a writer or editor posts "Yes, Chase was Chase the 1987 toy" we have to treat him as a separate character. No, just... '''no'''.
:::::::::Look, if you want to argue for how you think this page should be, fine, do it. But ''understand'' that you are suggesting a ''very'' unusual treatment for this page, and the burden of proof is on '''you''' to convince people. That means constructing actual ''arguments'', with supporting reasons. Not simply repeating "no, because I don't think it should be that way" again and again and again. Obstinance != convincing people.
:::::::::Unless you start making actual arguments, I'm not listening to you anymore. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:38, 13 August 2009 (EDT)
::::::::::"If the toy ''is'' that character, its information still counts unless specifically contradicted."
::::::::::So the fact that the tech spec claims Goldbug is Bee's mind in a remade body while the writers (and the story's timeline placement) indicate that IDW Goldbug is NOT IDW Bumblebee here isn't enough of a "contradiction" for you to put the rest in doubt? You and I have different threshholds of "contradiction", then.
::::::::::"So what you're saying is that the G1 Goldbug toy was in fact ''repurposed'' for a character '''wholly''' unrelated to the original Goldbug... who is also named Goldbug, also a Throttlebot and is part of the same continuity."
::::::::::This is entirely possible. It's just that we don't know for sure until we get at least a picture of him as that toy, which Sipher at least agrees with me about, so it's not like I'm the only person here saying this, for pity's sake, so stop acting like I am.
::::::::::"The ''other'' option you're left with is that Goldbug is in fact a new character named Goldbug in the same continuity and the toy was ''not'' re-purposed as him... but instead it merely served as the same inspiration;"
::::::::::That's ''exactly'' what I'm saying for the moment. The writers say Bumblebee and Goldbug are separate, and IDW Galvatron is ''also'' a character that was inspired by G1 Galvatron without also being him (so it's not like this is new). So I don't get people's burning need to make connections that even the writers state don't exist. I'm not sure how you can claim the tech spec applies either when a good chunk of it ''explicitly'' is not the case here, and thus including it would be inaccurate.
::::::::::And, I really don't get why people are claiming I'm "not making an argument". As far as I'm concerned, "If we decide a character is separate enough fiction-wise, then he must also be separate enough toy-wise as well unless the fiction we used to separate him by says otherwise" '''IS AN ARGUMENT'''. Only making a character halfway separate seems like being wishy-washy and fan assumptive at best, unless there's some canon support like at least getting a description or picture of the character with an altmode like the toy, a la something like the SG stories. And nobody's given me a good solid reason based on canon why that doesn't amount to "well, I think the toy applies anyway just because I feel it does" or "well, I think being wishy-washy is a good thing because it means we don't have to actually make up our minds whether the character is separate or not".
::::::::::I think this is all because fans have this burning thing that they can't accept everything not being tied together in a neat bow, even when they need made-up fanwank to do it. Let it go. Accept that sometimes stuff, even similar stuff, just is not connected because the writers didn't intend for it to be connected, so they didn't write it that way. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 08:49, 13 August 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::::There's precedent for one toy representing multiple characters. Namely, all of the pretenders having both English and Japanese pages. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 14:39, 13 August 2009 (EDT)
::::::::::::<nowiki>*</nowiki>facepalms* For the fiftieth time, I never said that one toy couldn't represent multiple characters. It's a question of whether a given toy ''officially'' represents more than one character or not. I'm assuming that the Pretender toys officially in canon represent both the English and Japanese characters, correct? But here we don't even have a pic of Goldbug looking like his toy to go from. People not paying attention to and reading what I'm saying is part of why I'm being so pissy, y'know. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 15:23, 13 August 2009 (EDT)

:This Goldbug thing is so crazy. It's really either all or nothing on the toy/toy bio. On the one hand I'm thinking, he's Goldbug the Throttlebot. The tech spec has to apply. He has the mind of Bumblebee? OK. We don't know how it happened. Freak orbital jump accident like the Star Trek episode with two Rikers? They are machines, so maybe Bumblebee's mind was copied at some point? On the other hand, he seems to be just new character that happens to be named Goldbug and is a Throttlebot. It doesn't make sense to incorporate anything we know of the Bumblebee Goldbug. That is the most straightforward approach, but something in me is unwilling to just say the tech spec Goldbug simply doesn't exist, so I'm coming down on the side of that this Goldbug has Bumblebee's mind somehow, whether he knows it or not.
:This is also why all the Goldbug stuff should be on one page, so we can just present Goldbug as the fiction does and let the reader make a determination from the facts. Having a separate IDW Goldbug page draws a line. Someone had an idea of a "Goldbug (G1)" page that simply links to Bumblebee's page where appropriate and I liked that idea a lot. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 00:35, 13 August 2009 (EDT)
::I think "he's a new character that happens to be named Goldbug and is a Throttlebot" makes perfect sense, considering that the writers have said he's separate, Galvatron is handled pretty much the same way, and there's zip in IDW canon so far that I can recall off-hand that shows any hint of mind-copying (and why would they use it on Bumblebee, of all people?). I think people just need to accept that sometimes a duck is just a duck and that not everything needs to be connected. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 00:43, 13 August 2009 (EDT)
:::Yea, that makes sense, except that if that is the case, I can't shake the idea that "tech spec Goldbug the Throttlebot" ''also'' exists, somewhere off-panel in the IDW universe. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]]
::::I still see the "Goldbug (G1) page linking to Bumblebee for the other continuities" as the easiest solution. It resolves the issue of the toy, it resolves the issue of the intro, and it resolves the issue of any potential future non-Bumblebee Goldbugs. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 01:38, 13 August 2009 (EDT)
"This page is 70 kilobytes long". I hate you all. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 03:10, 13 August 2009 (EDT)

:Well, the kids have to learn about Tekwar sooner or later. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:25, 13 August 2009 (EDT)

==Breaking down the problem==
I have read every... single... thing... in this whole discussion, from this page to [[Talk:Galvatron (G1)]] to the Community Portal, and I honestly think ''all'' of it is because Goldbug presents a unique collision of three basic page-organization principles:

# '''All versions of a character from the same continuity-family belong on the same page.''' ''(Therefore IDW-Galvatron is on [[Galvatron (G1)]].)''
# '''If a character changes identity but the "life story" is seamless, no new page is made.''' ''(Therefore there is no separate [[Rodimus Prime (G1)]] page.)''
# '''If one series-summary contains two separate "life stories," one should be broken out.''' ''(Therefore [[Galvatron II]] is separate from [[Galvatron (G1)]].)''

I'm not sure if these rules have ever been codified, but they're the underpinning of how we've built all of our character-pages so far. Judging by how the debate has gone, everyone has their own instinctive way of balancing them which they consider the "simple," "intuitive" answer, and everyone ''else'' is a dick for even suggesting an alternative.

Well, here's the problem: This page as currently written satisfies #2 and #3, but it leaves #1 in a strange limbo, which is the source of all the drama. On the face of it, some people think there's no problem at all - [[Goldbug (G1)]] is actually contained within [[Bumblebee (G1)]], and the IDW-Goldbug is separated out into [[Goldbug (IDW)]] by rule #3, so we're fine. But it's not so simple; we're right to separate IDW-Goldbug from [[Bumblebee (G1)]], but the principles ''don't'' support him being thrown out of the (for lack of a better term) "G1-Goldbug collective." This isn't just philoso-wankery; there are practical ramifications:

IDW-Goldbug and IDW-Galvatron have the ''exact same'' relation to their previous G1 incarnations. So if IDW-Galvy gets to live on a page with the original Galvy toy and an intro that reflects the other G1-Galvies, then IDW-Goldbug shouldn't be considered any differently. Yet, living in this "(IDW)" ghetto, he ''looks'' like he's been separated even more, and that's why the question of whether to put his toy here or incorporate the old bio is so contentious. Moreover, it's causing the debate to flow in the other direction, as people are considering throwing out principle #1 entirely and making a separate "Galvatron (IDW)" article and lord knows what else.

[[User:Jackpot/Sandbox/Goldbug (G1)|'''My solution''']] balances all three principles equally and provides a decisive answer to EVERY SINGLE POINT OF DEBATE:

*'''Should the Goldbug toy go here?''' ''(YES, since the article would represent all G1-Goldbugs.)''
*'''Should the old bio info be used in the intro?''' ''(YES, in the same vague, overarching, brush-over-the-contradictions way we do for every other character.)''
*'''Should IDW-Galvatron be separated?''' ''(NO, he violates none of the principles.)''
*'''Should the Goldbug info be moved out of [[Bumblebee (G1)]] or something?''' ''(NO, seamless life-stories should be kept whole.)

Is my solution more complicated than the current setup? Let's see how a reader would encounter information in my schema:

*If a reader searches for or follows a link to:
**'''Bumblebee (G1)''', he will find all the relevant Goldbug info there, exactly as it currently stands.
**'''Goldbug''', he'll be redirected to [[Goldbug (disambiguation)]], just like now.
**'''Goldbug (IDW)''', he'll be redirected to this page and find exactly what he's looking for.
**'''Goldbug (G1)''', he'll end up here and, assuming he was looking for the Bumblebee versions at all, will have a single extra click to go through.

That's IT. THAT'S the "complication" my solution causes: One extra click for a ''fraction'' of the readers. Meanwhile, it provides resolution to all of these debates, affirms the standards we already have, leaves the content of all articles unscathed, and provides a solid precedent for what to do the ''next'' time this inevitably happens (I'm looking at you, Rodimus).

Fuck YES, that's worth it. I'm not just pushing this because it's "my idea"; I think it is honest-to-gods The Right Answer. If there are valid critiques or more effective alternatives, I'm all ears, but I have yet to hear them. And if people think this is a mountain-out-of-a-molehill situation, well, I say this is a FANTASTIC opportunity to figure some shit out on a character who's relatively inconsequential, before we have to deal with it later on a hairier subject.

- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 04:38, 14 August 2009 (EDT)

:Looking at the recent constant arguments over this article, I am willing to change my mind and back your solution, as long as this talk page gets deleted. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 05:31, 14 August 2009 (EDT)
::Heh, well even after archiving the first two sections, it's STILL giving page-length warnings. So if this time we can finally resolve it all, I'll be happy to sweep more of this godawful debate under the archival rug. And, hey, thanks for the open-mindedness. It sounds selfish for me to say it because you're "joining my side," but honestly, I'm happy whenever people honestly listen to each other's ideas and are capable of adapting their own positions to find the objectively best answer. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 06:02, 14 August 2009 (EDT)
:::I read that yesterday and must say it did change my mind. I do like your approach and I throw my support behind it. [[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 06:08, 14 August 2009 (EDT)

::The original discussion got ''very'' off-track because of all the side-issues involved. (Which is a bit silly, because all of those issues can be handled individually, nothing about them required them to have "handled as a whole.") There were a lot of confusion about what this-or-that decision 'would mean' in terms of how they might set policy that would affect other articles and ambiguity about exactly the issues-at-hand ''were'' due to a host of complicating factors... which I think directly resulted in the original deadlock. (And frankly, an up-and-down vote should ''not'' have been called while people were still coming into the discussion and were so obviously struggling to understand the issues involved.)
::As I see it, there are 3 separate decisions that need to be made.
::# Should Marvel/Sunbow Goldbug be covered on the same page as Marvel/Sunbow Bumbelbee?
::# Should IDW Goldbug get covered on the same page as Marvel/Sunbow Goldbug?
::And if the answer to '''that''' decision is "no," then we have to answer;
::# Should the page for ''non-Bumblebee Goldbugs'' be "Goldbug (G1)" or "Goldbug (IDW)"?
::# Should the 1987 toy be included on the ''non-Bumblebee Goldbug'' page?
::I think people are a lot clearer on these issues in the wake of the argument(s) that sprang up and then ran themselves into the ground after the deadlock vote and we're now in a better position to form a consensus.
::But since it's been so contentious, we should ''probably'' do a voting poll to establish community consensus. Actually 2-4 ''separate'' polls, collapsing the open issues down one-by-one until a single solution is reached.
::It's a pain in the ass, but I '''strongly''' believe that reaching decision on the Galvatron article will go smoother if the related issues surrounding this Goldbug article are ''settled'' in a clear manner first.
::That's my two cents. But I've also been hip-deep in this debate so I'm not a neutral party. Which is why I'm floating the ''idea'' of a series of consensus-polls rather than simply calling one myself. I have a conflict-of-interest so I shouldn't be initiating action myself. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 06:13, 14 August 2009 (EDT)
:::Yeek. I completely understand where you're coming from, but I'm afraid that that'll end up being way more trouble than it's worth. Put it this way: If this time around, my proposal still doesn't get decisive support, then yeah, maybe multiple polls are the only option left. But if my proposal can get the community seal of approval right now, that'll be a ''huge'' breakthrough, and then we'll have all the time in the world to massage the nitpicky details of it. You voted in favor of the move before; can I assume you still favor it if, at least for the moment, it happens according to my sandbox model? - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 06:28, 14 August 2009 (EDT)
::::I agree with every one of your points, but not your sandbox proposal. I think the page (more-or-less as it's treated now) should be moved to "Goldbug (G1)" with some top-level links to Bumblebee, but '''not''' reproducing all those empty sections. The real '''reason''' we're separating this article out is ''not'' for convenience or filing purposes... we're separating it out because we feel that non-Bumblebee-Goldbug needs to be handled seperately from Bumblebee-Goldbug.
::::We wouldn't ''normally'' do that; "[[Scorponok (Energon)]]"'s article includes a Cybertronian Decepticon and a version of the character who '''isn't even a Transformer'''; he's a Quintesson. (Actually, it's a ''clone'' of a Quintesson created with memories implanted onto the spark of the deceased Decepticon Thrust.) We treat them as the same character.
::::Demonstrably major differences between incarnations of a character are ''not'' enough reason to spin them out into their own article... normally.
::::The reason we're doing it ''here'' stems from a differnt policy-- whena character changes names and forms... we don't split them out ''either''. So all the times Bee got rebuilt into Goldbug are covered in the "Bumblebee (G1)" article, because it makes more sense to present his history in a straight line rather than send readers back-and-forth between two articles as he swaps bodies back and forth.
::::Those are both good practices, enacted for obviosu and beneficial reasons. 99% of the time you can put them into action without any problem. But in ''this'' 1% of the time our practice of "move Goldbug's fiction to Bumblebee's article" is running smack-dab into the fact we now have a Goldbug who's ''not'' Bumblebee... so he ''can't'' go in "Bumblebee (G1)." Warring imperatives.
::::Your sandbox strikes me as in-name-but-not-action ''separating'' "Bumblebee (G1)" and "Goldbug (G1)," just with cute 'see this' aliases that render 70% of the article's length empty space. That's terrible. The only '''reason''' we're giving this it's own article is because we need somewhere to ''put'' "non-Bumblebee Goldbug." But you want to uglify the "non-Bumblebee Goldbug" article by spamming it with Bumblebee-Goldbug redirect-links, Bumblebee-Goldbug main images, and a bio that's not allowed to actually talk about non-Bumbleebee-Goldbug because it has to be slaves in service of "Go read this other article!" '''Plus''' it breaks every standard practice we have for toy sections. If this article is about all versions of G1 Goldbug... then it '''has''' to have all representations of the character on there, just like the Optimus Prime toy section has e-Hobby Orion Pax.
::::In pursuit of one ideal, I think your sandbox proposal stampedes over several over overs and (most importantly) does so in an ''inconsistent'' fashion. The page's entire ''raison d’état'' is to have a place to pus non-Bumblebee Goldbug. Your proposal does a '''tremendous dis-service''' to non-Bumblebee Goldbug--- turning his bio, mainpic, and 90% of his fiction section in re-direct links all '''completely irrelevant''' to non-Bumblebee Goldbug who-- let me restate-- is the ''entire'' reason this article exists. If this is such a crucial difference and it invalidates parts of his tech-spec, then he needs a ^&*() '''main bio''' that tells you what this unique version of the character is "about;" not to have his article annexed in the service of Bumblebee. In terms of encoded meanings... what I take away from your sandbox proposal is; "Look this version of the character is really stupid, and we resent having to deal with him so we're going to bury his ass in spam-links until he's lost in his own article while constantly sending you over to the '''real''' article; Bumblebee."
::::We agree on ''every'' principle you want to affirm... but we've reached ''wildly'' different conclusions on what end result those principles inevitably lead to. That's because they're struggling for primacy; which guiding principle 'wins' when they're in conflict? It's like the [[Wikipedia:3 Laws of Robotics|3 Laws of Robotics]]... the order-of-primacy you place on these principles in has a major affect on the outcome.
::::...which is why I think 1 big vote isn't gonna work. We need to bit off smaller chunks and narrow down 'the range of possibilities' for this page form A-Z where it currently is (with nothing decided) to F-H. (a range both of our approaches would fall under) and then make a decision on that.
::::But '''more important''' the whole original bru-ha-ha on this and other pages fundamentally stems from people not understanding, being confused by or disagreeing with such basic principles as "wildly alternate versions of characters go on the same page" and "when a character switches bodies/names in an otherwise linear fiction it goes ont he same page." And as a result we were suddenly fielding serious proposals to split out '''all''' of the IDW pages by people who didn't understand ''why'' Goldbug's example was so different (or just thought that's what the actual debate was about) or split off all the Hearts of Steel articles.
::::The 'basic principles' you outline at the beginning of this section based on precedent and how we treat other articles and then treat as a given... ''not everyone is clear on them.'' That's why I think we need people to vote to affirm ''those principles'' not a solution... and then demonstrate how those principles then ''lead'' to a single solution. (Or at least a finite set of equally-meritorious solutions from which to choose.)
::::Do you '''really''' want to start a discussion on how we treat Galvatron's article ''without'' people being on the same page on the fundamental issues? Think of it as a ''primer'' so that the Galvatron debate ''doesn't'' get derailed by arguments that "Hearts of Steel Scourge" co-existing with "Thundercracker" should determine how we treat Galvatron.
::::Dude, right now the "Galvatron (G1)" page includes all of ''Straxus-as-Galvatron's'' adventures from the Marvel comic but '''not''' ''Megatron-as-Galvatron's''s. if there isn't some basic understanding of the core issues going in, that discussion is going to be a '''bloodbath'''. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:35, 14 August 2009 (EDT)
:::::<nowiki>*</nowiki>squints and goes cross-eyed* ...I ''think'' Derik managed to articulate why something seemed off/wrong to me about your sandbox proposal, which I couldn't manage to explain myself at the time. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 08:06, 14 August 2009 (EDT)

:::::I'm not going to respond to everything you said, since I think I've already laid out almost all of my case as best as I can above. We have disagreements; maybe we can work them out some other time. I'll just say two things:
:::::1) It's not that I think IDW-Goldbug is worthless and should be "buried," it's that I think the meta-G1-Goldbug should be acknowledged. As I see it, the concept of IDW-Goldbug isn't a head-to-toe rejection of G1-Goldbug; it's an ''expansion'' of what G1-Goldbug can be. It's similar to how ''Spotlight: Ultra Magnus'' expanded the idea of Ultra Magnus to include an interstellar-sheriff possibility. So my solution serves that idea by bringing the meta-G1-Goldbug stuff into the article while NOT burying IDW-Goldbug underneath a bunch of Marvel and Sunbow details that are better covered elsewhere.
:::::2) I'm surprised you think our preferred ends are "wildly different." Based on what you said before, I thought you favored the same solution, just with the Marvel and Sunbow sections fleshed out too. Maybe that counts as a huge chasm to you; it doesn't to me. It's what I consider a detail capable of being "massaged" after the move in more low-impact discussions. (For instance, the idea of repeating the info between articles hasn't really been talked about... there are possibilities.) So what you see as loggerheads, I see as small potatoes compared to the benefits of just getting this thing moved into a less controversial space.
:::::And that's probably the last I'm going to say about most of this. I think I've described my stance from just about every angle, and anything more would be repetition. Like I said, I don't think you and I are so far apart, but shrug. At this point, I'm content to let the chips... ''FALL WHERE THEY MAY!''
:::::- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 13:29, 14 August 2009 (EDT)

::I ''think'' a big part of my problem was that I didn't want the Bumblebee-as-Goldbug info pulled out of Bumblebee's page, I'm honestly having trouble remembering now. I see this as a good solution. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 12:34, 14 August 2009 (EDT)
I'm in favor of Jackpot's sandboxed solution. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:15, 14 August 2009 (EDT)

I too favor Jackpot's sandboxed solution. Any questions about specific details of the page (i.e. leaving the Marvel/Sunbow sections as pure redirects vs. putting some or all of the information there, etc.) can be ironed out after the move. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 13:55, 14 August 2009 (EDT)
:Hey, that sounds an awful lot like "let's settle the question in ''chunks'' instead of voting on single solutions." If only someone who didn't have a conflict of interest (read: not myself) would call for a poll-for-consensus vote about "Goldbug (IDW)" vs. "Goldbug (G1)," so that we could settle ''that'' issue, then move on to the actual page contents... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:34, 14 August 2009 (EDT)

Just to be formal about it, I don't favor Jackpot's sandbox proposal for much of what Derik said above - it's a wishy-washy "Well, I don't ''wanna'' separate him out, but if you're gonna make me anyway..." setup that basically has Goldbug-as-Bee info on Bee's page and IDW Goldbug-that's-not-Bee info on its own page... which is exactly what we have now anyway, just right now it's in a much clearer and better-representing format. 
Basically, I say either all of IDW Goldbug's info goes on Bee's page, IDW Goldbug stays completely separate based on his fiction info alone, or every bit of Goldbug info gets separated out onto its own page. I honestly don't know which would work best; I just know that I see no point in weird half-hearted info-splitting that doesn't commit to anything because we can't make a choice and stick to it. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:21, 14 August 2009 (EDT)
: Only Sith believe in absolutes! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:24, 14 August 2009 (EDT)
:: ...wasn't Anakin's ''entire'' descent to the dark side charted by shades-of-gray "for the greater good" sacrifices to bring about a utopian society ruled by a benevolent dictator who could end suffering? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:34, 14 August 2009 (EDT)
:::It's almost like George Lucas is a hack! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:52, 14 August 2009 (EDT)
::::Or Obi-wan is externalizing his dissatisfaction with the Jedi order's unhealthy '''obsession''' with absolutes (you're not allowed to fall in love or have close friendships because they lead to fear -> anger -> hate -> suffering...) and projecting is onto their enemies!
::::...though Lucas being a hack ''is'' much more likely. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:55, 14 August 2009 (EDT)

:What you see as "wishy-washy," I see as "balanced." You want to see us make a hard choice between three extremes, but I think the true solution recognizes the inherently soft situation for what it is. I see each extreme doing a greater disservice than the middle ground that gives all three principles equal weight. But, as with Derik above, I can't think of a different way to explain my reasoning, so I'm not going to try again. I'm sorry we can't see eye-to-eye on this one. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 18:50, 14 August 2009 (EDT)
::I agree. If it is "wishy-washy," than it matches how Goldbug is presented as a character, which is a bit mushy. Solidifying the articles draws conclusions that aren't there. For example, making "IDW Goldbug stay completely separate based on his fiction info alone," draws the conclusion that he has nothing at all to do with his original bio, which is an unwarranted assumption. Putting everything on Bumblebee's page does not recognize that IDW has two separate characters. I am more in favor of putting every bit of Goldbug on the Goldbug page, actually, but what Jackpot proposes is a good second choice. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 19:39, 14 August 2009 (EDT)
:::Well, if there's nothing that lets us treat him as truly separate, then that means he either belongs on the Bee page, or all of the Goldbug info belongs on a separate page, with "See: Goldbug" links in the right spot on Bee's page..
:::But Jackpot's solution is useless, as it pretty much says, "Everything about Goldbug is on Bee's page except this IDW info." So, uh, how is that better than what we have now, which is... a page full of just the IDW info, because that's the only info that's separate. If 90% of the time we're going to have people go to a Goldbug (G1) page just to find out that all the info is on Bee's page, that's what the nice redirect we already have is for. Then the other 10% of the time they can click on the nice disambig we also already have and get the SG or IDW pages.
:::I'm only in favor of change if it actually does something different and better than the status quo. Jackpot's sandbox idea fulfills neither requirement. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:52, 14 August 2009 (EDT)

Thinking outside the box, can we have Goldbug (G1) information be a sub-page of the Bumblebee (G1) page somehow, like 2009 comics is a sub page of [[2009]]? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 18:11, 5 September 2009 (EDT)
:What I was thinking, is it possible for one sub-page to go to two main pages? We could have a <strike>"Goldbug (Marvel comics)"</strike> "Goldbug (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity" sub-page that automatically puts the same information on the "Bumblebee (G1)" page and the "Goldbug (G1)" page in the appropriate places. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 18:46, 5 September 2009 (EDT)

== ''Transformers'' Gold Bumblebee ==

So what do you think? Is "[[Bumblebee (G1)/toys#Transformers (2010)|Gold Bumblebee]]" really "Goldbug" under a different name? Should the toy be included here? Just throwing the idea out there. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 23:09, 30 October 2010 (EDT)
:I would think his name being "Gold Bumblebee" would preclude him from being a character who isn't Bumblebee. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 23:35, 30 October 2010 (EDT)
::Good point. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:26, 31 October 2010 (EDT)
:::I think we should add that toy anyway since it's supposed to be Goldbug and judging from the name Hasbro gave it, I don't see a toy named Goldbug anytime soon.-[[User:ACIDSTORM92|ACIDSTORM92]] 17:49, 1 December 2010 (EST)
::::If that toy represents any "Goldbug" it is "Goldbug who used to be Bumblebee" while this page is "Goldbug who was never Bumblebee". That seems like reason enough to keep it off this page (and on Bumblebee's), but then again that same reason didn't suffice for the original Goldbug toy (see below). --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 17:51, 1 December 2010 (EST)

== Guys, guys..... ==

Can we ''please'' remove the toy? He has never appeared in that form, EVER. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 16:25, 31 October 2010 (EDT)
:That would give the impression that IDW made him up. It would fail to acknowledge the link between IDW Goldbug and his G1 Throttlebot origins. The IDW story involves the Throttlebots which were a subgroup of Autobots with the same gimmick. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:35, 31 October 2010 (EDT)
::I'm with Blackout on this one. That toy does not match the representation of the character in any of his appearances. A simple note (like the one that was removed earlier today) would cover the connection. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 16:45, 31 October 2010 (EDT)
:::We already went over this a year ago, and it seems it was decided the toy would stay. By this same logic, the other IDW Throttlebots should be split off into their own toy-free pages for not having appeared in Earth forms yet. Fact of the matter is, we've got a character in a G1 continuity named Goldbug who shares clear similarities with the G1 toy Goldbug. He's meant to represent that toy. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 17:48, 31 October 2010 (EDT)
::::The original toy is of a Goldbug who was Bumblebee, this is Goldbug who was never Bumblebee. The other Throttlebots are the same characters as their old toys. But apparently consensus is against me on this, so I won't press the issue. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 20:15, 31 October 2010 (EDT)
:This matter was dealt with already, as you can see in the miles of text above. Please do not bring it up again. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 17:52, 31 October 2010 (EDT)

Rumble (G1)

2011-01-02T18:02:15Z

-Blackout-: Undo revision 540112 by 97.114.143.135 (Talk)

{{factions|decepticon|decepticong2}}
{{disambig3|Rumble}}
:''Rumble is a [[Decepticon]] [[Decepticon Mini-Cassette|Mini-Cassette]] from the [[Generation 1 (franchise)|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''
[[Image:RumbleMissingInAction.jpg|right|275px|thumb|Ready to shake, break, rattle and QUAKE!]]
'''Rumble''' is your basic street punk: Small, but always acting tough as a cover. He's not exactly the most subtle of [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]]'s [[Mini-Cassette|spies]], but what he lacks in discretion, he makes up for by being the brawler of the group. He talks tough because he ''is'' tough. Quick-tempered and of a generally mean disposition, he follows [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] eagerly, as the Decepticon leader lets him indulge in destruction. Rumble has a tendency to toss out a taunting rhyme at his enemies and is, according to [[Brawn (G1)|Brawn]], a "jerk" (or at other times, a "sawed-off nerd").

As the Decepticon demolitions expert, Rumble loves nothing more than to break things apart. His arms can transform into powerful piledrivers that, when pounded against the ground, can cause earthquakes, usually with fissures. He can be easily overpowered in a one-on-one match, though the real challenge is actually getting to him first. Even if you do, you usually need to get through his [[Relatives|brother]] [[Frenzy (G1)|Frenzy]] either before or after you get Rumble.

{{quote|If on Decepticon turf you happen to tumble, look out, robot, 'cause here comes Rumble!|Rumble, thinking he's funny|"[[S.O.S. Dinobots]]"}}

:''Portuguese name (Brazil comics):'' '''Estrondo''' ("Bang")
:''Hungarian name'': '''Görgető''' ("Trundler")
:''Italian name:'' '''Tremor'''
:''Portuguese name (Portugal comics)'': '''Trovão''' ("Thunder")
:''Russian name'': '''Gromila''' ('''Громила''', "Thug")
:''Chinese name (Taiwan):'' '''Rambo''' (蘭波, ''Lán Pō'', not [[wikipedia:Rambo|that one]])
:''Chinese name (China):'' '''Hong Long Long''' (轟隆隆，an [[wikipedia:Onomatopoeia|Onomatopoeia]] of the rumbling sound)

==Fiction==
===Marvel Comics continuity===
====Generation 1====
{{noteukonly}}
[[Image:PowerPlay Rummmble.JPG|left|250px|thumb|That's my name, don't wear it out.]]
Millions of years ago on [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]], Rumble was among [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]]'s elite warriors in the Decepticon ranks. He was present when the Decepticons attempted to overpower the crew of the [[Ark (G1)|Ark]], and ended up plunging down to the planet Earth below with all the other Transformers on-board. They remained dormant and inactive until 1984, when the volcano their ship was nestled under erupted, bringing the Ark's sensors back online, and the Cybertronians with it. {{storylink|The Transformers (issue)|The Transformers}} Megatron and the Decepticons immediately began plans to loot the planet's rich sources of energy. Rumble's ability to generate low-frequency groundwaves was instrumental in shaking loose equipment from the [[Harrison Nuclear Power Plant]], giving the Decepticons the raw materials necessary for the construction of their [[Fortress Sinister]]. {{storylink|Power Play!}} After securing a human fuel specialist, it was Rumble who provided [[Sparkplug Witwicky]] with a sample of Cybertronian fuel for analysis, simply by popping off his hand and pumping fuel from his wrist socket. Eww. As the Autobots confronted the Decepticons at their newly fortified base, Rumble came out to greet them. He used his earthquakes to knock [[Huffer (G1)|Huffer]] and [[Cliffjumper (G1)|Cliffjumper]] off-balance, but [[Brawn (G1)|Brawn]] just barreled his way through the tremors and decked the junk-punk with one punch. After dealing with the Autobot pugilist, [[Frenzy (G1)|Frenzy]] scooped up his brother and brought him back into the base for repairs, but they were assaulted by [[Gears (G1)|Gears]] and his [[Spider-Man|arachnid partner]]. {{storylink|Prisoner of War!}}

''Rumble was actually in favor of Decepticon democracy at one point, grumbling that [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] "deserved a vote" during one of the Air Commander's infamous arguments with Megatron. He was, however, smart enough not to grumble too loudly. {{storylink|The Enemy Within!}} Starscream later got his way, and the Decepticons staged an attack on the Ark. Rumble tried to pit himself against the Autobot warrior named [[Sideswipe (G1)|Sideswipe]], but found himself severely outmatched by the Autobot's piledriver punch. {{storylink|Raiders of the Last Ark}}''

[[Image:PrimeTime Rumble sweat.JPG|right|200px|thumb|If only I hadn't forgotten to take my Insulin this morning...]]
Heavily damaged due to earlier battles, Rumble sat out the next Decepticon offensive against the Ark, and was not reactivated until after Decepticon leadership had shifted from Megatron to the returning [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]]. Thanks to their new commander, the Decepticons had secured the Ark and all of the Autobots were believed incapacitated. Despite all these victories, Rumble failed miserably at guarding the Ark, letting one [[Buster Witwicky (G1)|Buster Witwicky]] sneak by him and abscond with the [[Creation Matrix]]. It turned out Rumble's optical circuitry was too low-rez to pick up on humans in his peripheral. {{storylink|The New Order}} Shockwave actually had to run Rumble's memories through a computer-enhanced refinement process before he could even see the culprit. Needless to say, Shockwave was NOT happy when he found out. {{storylink|Brainstorm!}} Waiting for his punishment, Rumble actually began developing moisture and condensation on his face-plate in anticipation. Fortunately for Rumble, his only punishment was to guard their human slaves at the [[Blackrock Aerospace Assembly Plant Number One]]. Unfortunately for Rumble, he was no better at watching multiple humans than he was at watching one—the humans revolted when [[Jetfire (G1)|Jetfire]] turned on Shockwave, and Rumble was unable to stop them from escaping the plant. {{storylink|Prime Time!}}

[[Image:CommandPerformances RumbleFrenzy explode.JPG|left|120px|thumb|Ow.]]
Shockwave's defeat left the Decepticons leaderless for a time, and Rumble served various masters until Megatron and Shockwave reached an accord, agreeing to work together as co-leaders of the Decepticons. Rumble didn't last long into this new regime, however. Almost as soon as the Decepticons officially relocated to a coal mine in Wyoming, Megatron led Rumble and several of his fellow soldiers in an attack on the Ark. Having been alerted by Shockwave to an all-out Autobot assault on the mine, Megatron concluded that the Ark and its secrets would be relatively unguarded, and ripe for the picking. Well, Megatron was wrong... on an epic scale. Rumble and the Decepticons were treated to the first battle field test of the Autobots' new defense base: [[Omega Supreme (G1)|OMEGA SUPREME]]. Rumble was blown to pieces by Omega Supreme's plasma cannon, along with Starscream, [[Thundercracker (G1)|Thundercracker]], [[Skywarp (G1)|Skywarp]], [[Buzzsaw (G1)|Buzzsaw]], and Frenzy. Only Megatron and [[Laserbeak (G1)|Laserbeak]] managed to limp away from the battle at all. {{storylink|Command Performances!}}

''When Starscream awoke from his life support machine on the Ark, he saw that Frenzy and Thundercracker were close to regaining consciousness, but that Rumble, Skywarp, and Buzzsaw were far from rehabilitated. {{storylink|Target: 2006}}''

Rumble remained a prisoner of the Autobots for years, his disassembled component parts resting in the Ark's detention facility until the [[Constructicon (G1)|Constructicons]] raided the spaceship during a battle on the moon. {{storylink|Totaled!}} Although he was presumably reconstructed along with his fellow Decepticons, Rumble was still virtually never seen again.

{{-}}
=====Earthforce=====
{{earthforcefiction}}
''Rumble, along with his fellow cassette [[Ravage (G1)|Ravage]], apparently chose to serve under Shockwave and [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] when the Decepticon factions split on Earth, fighting on the opposite side of Soundwave. He was present at the [[Enclave]], joining in the massive melee initiated by the Autobots {{storylink|The Bad Guy's Ball!}}, and was later seen on Starscream's observation duty monitors. {{storylink|Bugged!}} After the two factions reunited, Rumble nestled back into his old space inside Soundwave's chest. No hard feelings, right big guy? {{storylink|Divide and Conquer!}}''

{{note|Because Earthforce was printed in black-and-white, it's possible some of his above appearances were actually Frenzy. However, only one FIBRIR bodytype was ever seen at a time, Rumble was identified by name in one issue, and Frenzy was never named, so for simplicity's sake we are assuming only Rumble was present in Earthforce.}}

====Generation 2====
[[Image:FrenzyRumbleRepair-G2.jpg|right|120px|thumb|Rumble also goes by that handle on Team Fortress 2.]]

Surprisingly, Rumble and Frenzy were both acting as ''medics'', reviving and rebuilding [[Darkwing]]. Rumble was later present for Megatron's throttling of Optimus Prime and the capture of the [[Matrix of Leadership|Creation Matrix]] from his chest. When the other Autobots arrived, Rumble used his piledrivers to toss [[Hot Rod (G1)|Hot Rod]] for a loop. {{storylink|The Gathering Darkness}} Later, after the Decepticons joined forces with the Autobots, Rumble accompanied his leader to the planet [[Ethos]], and was seen mopping up the [[Cybertronian (faction)|Cybertronian]] resistance after the Cons saved the Autobots' tailpipes. {{storylink|Escalation!}}

When [[Jhiaxus (G2)|Jhiaxus]] unleashed his full battalion against his ancestors, Rumble was manning the [[Warworld]]'s bridge alongside Soundwave and Frenzy. Both of his fellow bridge officers apparently jettisoned to safety before Starscream took full command of the Warworld, and so Rumble may have done so as well. {{storylink|A Rage in Heaven!}}

{{-}}

====''Universe'' bio====
Rumble became even more anti-social after the death of his brother, Frenzy, in the Swarm war, and was eventually abducted by [[Unicron]] to join his [[Minions of Unicron]] in the battle against the [[Children of Primus]].

{{note|This bio is not ''entirely'' official. It comes from the [[BotCon 2006]] customization class, but it was apparently never vetted by Hasbro (much like [[Nightracer]]'s).}}

===Generation 1 cartoon continuity===
====''The Transformers'' cartoon====
:''Voice actor:'' [[Frank Welker]] (English), [[Ken Shiroyama]] (Japanese), [[Katsumi Suzuki]] (Japanese, "Attack of the Autobots" and "Day of the Machines" only), [[Ken Yamaguchi]] (Japanese, ''The Transformers: The Movie'' only), [[Roberto Alexander]] (Latin American) (see note below regarding Japanese cartoon)

[[Image:Mtmte1_rumble_robotmode.jpg|left|175px|thumb|And, thus, an entire generation was confused...]]

Four million years ago, Rumble was a member of the original Decepticon raiding party that boarded the [[Ark (G1)|Autobots' spacecraft]], which then crashed into prehistoric Earth, knocking all the Transformers aboard offline. When they were reawakened in 1984 by a volcanic eruption, Rumble was reformatted by [[Teletraan I (G1)|Teletraan I]] into an audio cassette that fit snugly into Soundwave's chest compartment. As soon as the Decepticons had withdrawn from the crashed hulk of the Autobots' ship, Soundwave deployed Rumble to help [[Starscream (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Starscream]] gather materials for construction of a temporary headquarters. Casually brushing off Starscream's constant complaints about [[Megatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Megatron]]'s leadership abilities, Rumble put his piledrivers to work reducing a power plant to scrap to provide the needed building materials.

[[Image:Mtmte3 rumble vs hound.jpg|right|thumb|220px]]

With their temporary base in place and plans for a [[Victory (G1)|new space cruiser]] ready, the Decepticons began gathering energy from Earth's many available sources. They began with an attack on an offshore oil rig, during which Rumble menaced human worker [[Sparkplug Witwicky]], and shoved the man's son, [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Spike]], into the ocean when he tried to attack the small Decepticon.{{storylink|More than Meets the Eye, Part 1}} Soon after, exploiting information stolen from Teletraan I, the Decepticons had Rumble cause a tidal wave that would push the power output of the hydroelectric plant at [[Sherman Dam]] to its maximum capacity. Rumble was caught in the act by the Autobot [[Hound (G1)|Hound]], but in spite of his diminutive size, Rumble came out on top in the underwater battle, burying Hound under a pile of rocks. {{storylink|More than Meets the Eye, Part 2}} Rumble and Hound had a rematch during the battle to prevent the Decepticons escaping Earth in their finished cruiser, but this time, Rumble didn't fare so well. The battle was soon called off so the Decepticons could board their ship, but Autobot spy [[Mirage (G1)|Mirage]] also snuck aboard and sabotaged the craft in mid-flight. As it plummeted back to Earth, Rumble began freaking out, fearing the impact would destroy them. Luckily for the little guy, he was wrong. {{storylink|More than Meets the Eye, Part 3}}

[[Image:Rumble.jpg|left|thumb|220px|I thought it was supposed to be red or blue, Why AM I PURPLE?!?!]]

When next seen, Rumble was guarding the Decepticons' [[space bridge]] with [[Laserbeak (G1)|Laserbeak]] as they awaited the return of Megatron from [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]. Once Megatron had emerged from the bridge, Rumble joined him in attacked the laboratory of [[Doctor Alcazar]] and stood guard outside, warning the Autobots to keep their distance as Megatron worked to create [[antimatter]] with the lab's facilities. Although Hound and Mirage were able to sneak by Rumble using their hologram and invisibility powers, the Autobots were unable to stop Megatron completing his experiment, and Rumble took part in his leader's subsequent attack on [[Ark (G1)|Autobot Headquarters]]. Megatron's plan was foiled when the Autobots used a remote control device to take over [[Skywarp (G1)|Skywarp]]'s body, causing him to fire the antimatter-powered Megatron at Rumble. {{storylink|Roll for It}}

[[Image:Fireinthesky_rumble_avalanche.jpg|right|thumb|220px]]

Rumble was helping Starscream and [[Reflector (G1)|Reflector]] load [[energon cube]]s for transport through the space bridge when a team of Autobots arrived with the intention of using the bridge themselves. Rumble tried to open a crevasse beneath [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]], but the Decepticons were then ordered by Megatron to let the Autobots use the bridge. While they were absent, Megatron staged an attack on Autobot Headquarters, during which Rumble rumbled with [[Prowl (G1)|Prowl]] and [[Sunstreaker (G1)|Sunstreaker]]. {{storylink|Divide and Conquer}} Rumble was later instrumental in the Decepticons' plan to tap the heat energy of the Earth's core, as he smashed through the polar ice to help locate the crystal shaft they needed. In the process, he also uncovered the frozen body of [[Jetfire (G1)|Skyfire]]. {{storylink|Fire in the Sky}}

[[Image:Sosdinos_rumble_broken_piledrivers.jpg|left|thumb|220px]]

When the Decepticons attacked the [[Great Falls]] hydroelectric power plant, Rumble helped Megatron dispatch the counter-attacking Autobots with an unusual tactic: using the planet's equipment, Megatron channeled the seismic energy of tremors created by Rumble to boost the power of his [[fusion cannon]], and blasted all the Autobots into the river. When the Autobots' newest members, the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobots]], arrived to save their comrades, Rumble pitted his piledrivers against [[Sludge (G1)|Sludge]], who came out on top by creating a quake so powerful it broke Rumble's piledrivers off! {{storylink|S.O.S. Dinobots}} Then, after helping Megatron steal steel in [[Peru]], {{storylink|Fire on the Mountain}} Rumble lent a hand making energon cubes from the energy of a mysterious [[Meteorini Chipperoni|meteorite]]. {{storylink|War of the Dinobots}}

[[Image:Tud2_rumble_and_slave.jpg|right|thumb|220px]]

Brashly striding through the open front door of Autobot Headquarters, Rumble set about causing tremors throughout the Autobots' base to distract the heroic robots while Laserbeak kidnapped Sparkplug Witwicky right out from under their noses. {{storylink|The Ultimate Doom, Part 1}} Rumble then served as something of a "lab assistant" to the Decepticons' new human ally, [[Doctor Arkeville]], as he turned Sparkplug and many other captured humans into mind-controlled slaves with his [[hypno-chip]]s. Rumble took a perverse enjoyment in watching the human slaves suffer, yanking one through an electric field {{storylink|The Ultimate Doom, Part 2}} and tripping one unfortunate up while he was trying to do his allotted job. Rumble monitored the tidal waves created by Cybertron's gravity for Megatron, then joined in the final battle on a tropical island, where he tried once again to open a crevasse beneath Bumblebee, but got knocked into it himself. {{storylink|The Ultimate Doom, Part 3}} After Cybertron was moved back out Earth's orbit, the Decepticons set about repairing the damage the planet's gravity had caused to their [[Decepticon Headquarters|undersea headquarters]]. When Skywarp started bossing around Rumble and his brother [[Frenzy (G1)|Frenzy]], the two tiny terrors double-teamed Skywarp and brought him to the ground, and would have kept on fighting if Megatron had to not arrived to knock them into line. The battle-ready Rumble then accompanied Megatron to Doctor Arkeville's laboratory, where they were forced to team up with the Autobots to save the planet from his overloading [[Exponential Generator]]. {{storylink|Countdown to Extinction (episode)|Countdown to Extinction}}

[[Image:G1 cartoon Rumble piledrivers.JPG|left|thumb|220px]]

Rumble was next spotted gathering energon cubes at a shipyard in [[Bali]], {{storylink|A Plague of Insecticons}} after which he joined the other Decepticons in contributing his [[power chip rectifier]] to a machine that would transfer all their special abilities to Megatron. With these additional powers, Megatron challenged [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]] to one-on-one combat, using Rumble's quake-generating abilities to open a chasm into which Prime tumbled. When the Decepticons' duplicity was revealed, they were all sent falling into a river of lava, Rumble included. {{storylink|Heavy Metal War}}

Rumble was standing by as Megatron schemed to take control of "Autobot Spike," {{storylink|Autobot Spike}} then participated in the Decepticons invasion of [[New York City]], where he joined Soundwave and Frenzy in attacking a team of Autobots in Central Park. {{storylink|City of Steel}} Rumble and the other cassettes later staged another attack on Autobot Headquarters, in order to distract the Autobots while Megatron and Starscream snuck inside to sabotage their [[recharging chamber]]s. Rumble tussled with Optimus Prime and [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]], sending the two Autobots falling into one of his crevasses, only to have them come bounding out and clobber him when he peered over the edge to observe their fate. {{storylink|Attack of the Autobots}}

[[Image:Immobilizer_rumble_with_remote.jpg|right|thumb|220px]]

Rumble helped defend the installation the Decepticons were used to experiment with [[electro-cell]]s, {{storylink|Traitor}} after which he was put in charge of controlling the stolen Autobot invention, the [[Wheeljack Instant Immobilizer|Immobilizer]], {{storylink|The Immobilizer}} and was briefly glimpsed in battle in the ghost town the Decepticons were used as a staging base. {{storylink|The Autobot Run}}

When the Decepticons allied themselves with the inhabitants of the underwater city of [[Sub-Atlantica]], Soundwave observed the Autobot infiltrators Bumblebee, Spike and [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] pursuing the Sub-Atlantican king [[Nergill]] into the city's depths. Unable to follow due to his size, Soundwave sent Rumble and Ravage after them, but once they had tracked them down, Rumble was shocked to discover that the insane Nergill was planning to blow up Sub-Atlantica and everyone on it. Rumble tried to stop Nergill by activating his piledrivers and collapsing the chamber, but the mad fish-king dug his way out of the rubble and destroyed his city. {{storylink|Atlantis, Arise!}}

[[Image:Autoberserk_rumble_in_negavator.jpg|left|thumb|220px|[[Headmaster (Animated)|"Yes! I am soooo 1337!"]]]]

Rumble helped in the Decepticon plan to take over a fleet of oil tankers by firing [[Remote Control Circuit Linker|circuit linker cards]] at the ships that put them under the control of the super computer [[TORQ III]]. When a team of Autobots arrived to investigate, they were captured, and Rumble and Ravage served as their jailers until Spike engineered their escape by pinning the two cassettes to the wall with an electromagnet. {{storylink|Day of the Machines}} Rumble later put his piledrivers into action to help steal the human-built robot [[Nightbird (G1)|Nightbird]] {{storylink|Enter the Nightbird}} and helped the Decepticons defend a crevice of [[korlonium crystal]]s from Autobot incursion. {{storylink|A Prime Problem}}

Together with Soundwave and his other cassettes, Rumble attacked the testing site for the Autobots' new weapon, the [[Negavator]]. While Frenzy kept Optimus Prime busy, Rumble was able to get inside the cockpit of the Negavator itself, but before he could turn its power on Prime, [[Inferno (G1)|Inferno]] blasted the machine and shorted out the controls. Their mission foiled, the Decepticons fled, but as a parting gesture, Rumble launched a missile that demolished the control bunker and injured [[Red Alert (G1)|Red Alert]]. The Decepticons made another play for the Negavator only a short time later, this time trying to bury the Autobots under an avalanche caused by Rumble, but enjoyed a similar lack of success. {{storylink|Auto Berserk}}

[[Image:Masterplan2_rumble_boogie.jpg|right|thumb|220px]]

While searching the jungles of South America for the ruins of their [[Nemesis (G1)|old starship]], Rumble started bickering with Starscream, and was highly amused when the air commander was caught in the coils of a giant snake. When their quest ended in success, Rumble indulged in a bout of celebratory over-energizing with his fellow Decepticons that evening. {{storylink|Microbots}}

When the Decepticons fooled the population of Earth into believing the Autobots were villains and they were the true heroes, Rumble kept up appearances by attending a disco with Soundwave and the other cassettes, and genuinely quite enjoying himself. With the Autobots exiled to space, the Decepticons' ruse came to an end, and Rumble was made a slave-master in the work camp that the conquered [[Central City (G1)|Central City]] was turned into a slave camp. When [[Chip Chase]] tried to escape, Spike covered his flight by shoving a cart of energon cubes into Rumble, who was in turn sent crashing into a generator and was electrocuted. Although Chip was soon recaptured, it was not long before the Autobots returned to Earth to clear their names and send the Decepticons packing. {{storylink|Megatron's Master Plan, Part 2}}

[[Image:Raiderrumblejoust.jpg|left|thumb|220px]]

Rumble was among the Decepticons who began malfunctioning due to the deterioration of his [[cybertonium]], causing him to uncontrollably deploy his piledrivers and start pummelling Megatron's leg. {{storylink|Desertion of the Dinobots, Part 1}} Once repaired, Rumble participated in a Decepticon mission to [[United Kingdom|Great Britain]], where he, Starscream, Ravage and [[Ramjet (G1)|Ramjet]] all found themselves cast back in time to the Middle Ages by the mysterious, magical [[Dragon Mound]]. Falling in with local ne'er-do-well [[Sir Wigend du Blackthorne]], the energy-deprived Decepticons took part in a local jousting tournament as Wigend's representatives, in order to win ownership of the land owned by his rival, [[Sir Aetheling the Red]], as the first step towards conquering the planet. Armed with a lance and shield and riding atop Ramjet, Rumble jousted with Sir Aetheling himself, but was defeated, prompting Starscream to discard chivalry and kidnap Sir Aetheling's daughter [[Nimue]]. [[Image:Raiderrumblepoo.jpg|right|thumb]] To repel the inevitable rescue attempt, Starscream had the Decepticons gather the ingredients necessary to make [[Dragon's Bane|gunpowder]]; Rumble got the unenviable job of gathering the "potassium nitrate" he required. Eventually, the Decepticons were defeated by [[Hoist (G1)|Hoist]] and [[Warpath (G1)|Warpath]], who had followed them back through time, and the wizard [[Beorht]], and were returned to their rightful era. {{storylink|A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court}}

Rumble was among the Decepticons who temporarily gained the power of an [[electrum]] coating, {{storylink|The Golden Lagoon}} worked in the [[New Jersey (Earth)|New Jersey]] Pine Barrens to create an army of robot car warrior {{storylink|Make Tracks}} and was caught up in the menace of the [[Morphobot]]s. {{storylink|Quest for Survival}}

[[Image:G1-Cartoon-SeaChange-Rumble-Tree.jpg|left|thumb|300px|Grandmother <strike>Willow</strike> Rumble.]]

Accompanying Megatron to the world of the [[Tlalakan]]s to quash a rebellion among the inhabitants, Rumble wound up falling into their [[Well of Transformation]], which caused his body to warp and change. Not understanding what was happening to him, Rumble begged the native girl [[Alana]] to help him, and she informed him that he needed to think of a tree in order to survive. Rumble complied... and promptly turned into one! Stuck in this immobile form on the shores of the well, Rumble was left out of the following battle until an explosion knocked him back into its waters and he returned to normal. {{storylink|Sea Change}}

Rumble was dispatched to Cybertron with Starscream and Ramjet to locate the headquarters of the [[Female Autobots]], and used his piledrivers to collapse the base on Starscream's orders. {{storylink|The Search for Alpha Trion}} A little later, Rumble helped Soundwave prepare the [[psycho-probe]] to scan the mind of [[Astoria Carlton-Ritz]], but the heiress's ability to jinx machines around her just meant that the unfortunate duo wound up being electrocuted by the device. {{storylink|The Girl Who Loved Powerglide}} Then, when the Decepticons invaded a movie lot to recover footage that a crew had taken of [[Dirge (G1)|Dirge]] carrying a secret cargo, Rumble mistook some animatronic dinosaurs for the Dinobots and blasted them to bits. {{storylink|Hoist Goes Hollywood}}

[[Image:KeytoVectorSigmaPt1_stealing_DragStrip.jpg|right|thumb|220px|Sadly, not an unlockable racer in Super Mario Kart.]]

Seeking to challenge the Autobots' rule of the roads, Megatron charged Rumble with stealing an assortment of cars and trucks that he could rebuild as Decepticons. His small size worked in his favour, and Rumble invaded a Formula 1 race track, hijacked some bank robbers' getaway car and terrorized a trucker named [[Possum Brown]] to get the vehicles Megatron required. Impressed by the rebuilt cards "stunt-driving", Rumble inspired Megatron to name his new creations the [[Stunticon (G1)|Stunticons]]. Rumble subsequently accompanied Megatron to Cybertron to bestow life to the Stunticons using the mega-computer [[Vector Sigma]], although Rumble found the unassuming spherical form of the computer a bit underwhelming. {{storylink|The Key to Vector Sigma, Part 1}} The Decepticons then returned to Earth, and Rumble helped set up equipment to analyze the [[Key to Vector Sigma]]'s power. {{storylink|The Key to Vector Sigma, Part 2}}

Rumble travelled to [[Galata Valley]] with Megatron and Soundwave to help search for the [[Pearl of Bahoudin]], {{storylink|Trans-Europe Express}} following which he went on a significantly greater journey, voyaging to the planet [[Antilla]] with Megatron, Starscream and [[Astrotrain (G1)|Astrotrain]]. The deserted planet creeped Rumble out, and he was happy when they left, with a new "[[Lightning Bug]]" heat ray weapon into the bargain. They also came away with the dreaded [[Cosmic Rust (disease)|Cosmic Rust]] plague, and Rumble accompanied Megatron as he used the Lightning Bug to spread the disease through Autobot Headquarters. {{storylink|Cosmic Rust (episode)|Cosmic Rust}} For his final recorded adventures in the 20th century, Rumble battled Starscream's [[Combaticon (G1)|Combaticons]], {{storylink|Starscream's Brigade}} and helped operate Megatron's [[Giant Purple Griffin|new fortress]], activating its flight systems and turning its weapons on [[Superion (G1)|Superion]]. {{storylink|Aerial Assault}}

[[Image:Rumblevsperceptor.jpg|220px|thumb|left|Alright, open wide...]]
Over the course of the next twenty years, the Decepticons succeeded in conquering all of Cybertron and forcing the Autobots to relocate to bases on two of the planet's moons, and to their new home of [[Autobot City]] on Earth. In 2005, when the Decepticons staged a [[Battle of Autobot City|major assault against Autobot City]], Rumble, Frenzy, Ravage and [[Ratbat (G1)|Ratbat]] were deployed by Soundwave to disable a communications tower that [[Blaster (G1)|Blaster]] was using to broadcast a message to Optimus Prime at [[Moonbase One]]. After doing so, Rumble proceeded to smash his way into the tower with his piledrivers, and he and his fellow cassettes then piled on [[Perceptor (G1)|Perceptor]]. Blaster then unleashed his own cassettes on them, and Rumble wound up grappling with [[Steeljaw (G1)|Steeljaw]]. Unfortunately for the Decepticons, Rumble and his fellow cassettes had not acted quickly enough, and Blaster's distress call had indeed reached Optimus Prime, who soon arrived on Earth and defeated Megatron in battle. With the fall of their leader, the Decepticons retreated aboard Astrotrain, with Rumble carrying Megatron's fusion cannon while Soundwave carried Megatron himself. Once the Decepticons were on their way, it became necessary to jettison excess weight so that Astrotrain could make it to Cybertron, and Megatron was one of those ejected, prompting an argument over who should replace him as leader. When [[Hook (G1)|Hook]] called Soundwave "an uncharismatic bore", Soundwave ejected his cassettes to fight for his honor, and Rumble took particular umbrage at the insult. The Constructicons formed Devastator to teach them a lesson, but Rumble and Frenzy caused him to separate by shaking Astrotrain with their piledrivers. In the end, Starscream won out, and Rumble was present for his coronation...and subsequent disintegration by a powerful new Decepticon who appeared during the ceremony. Impressed by this show of force, Rumble asked what his name was so that the Decepticons could all cheer for him, and the newcomer announced he was [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]]. {{storylink|The Transformers: The Movie}}

[[Image:Ffod1 cons on chaar.jpg|right|thumb|220px]]

Galvatron's leadership did not start well, as the Decepticons were all subsequently forced off of Cybertron by the Autobots following the defeat of the planet-eating [[Unicron]]. Badly damaged and low on energy, they retreated to the burnt-out planet of [[Chaar]], but even this great fall didn't dampen Rumble's spirits, as he was heard loudly advocating both "pulverowderizing" and "powderulverizing" the Autobots. [[Onslaught (G1)|Onslaught]] credited Rumble's enthusiasm, but pointed out they could hardly carry out his plan when they barely had enough energy to just stay alive. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 1}} When Autobot leader [[Hot Rod (G1)|Rodimus Prime]] was found spying on the Decepticons with Grimlock, and Rumble joined the other Decepticons in mauling them before they were resuced by their Autobot comrades. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 2}}

Rumble was last seen a short while later, consuming the much-needed energon brought to Chaar by the [[Quintesson]]s and voting in favor of accepting the aliens' offer of an alliance. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 3}}
{{-}}

====Japanese cartoon continuity====
{{note|The events of the Generation 1 cartoon occur in Japanese continuity as detailed above, save for one major difference: the Japanese dub of the cartoon fixes the production error that switched [[FIRRIB|Rumble and Frenzy's color schemes]] by switching the characters' names! Thus, it is the red Rumble who barely appears, and the blue Frenzy, voiced by Ken Shiroyama, who shows up frequently and experiences all the events related above. Japanese continuity proceeds to insert many new storylines and events in, around, before and after the events of the Generation 1 cartoon, as covered below. In the name of consistency with the American cartoon, this article considers the blue robot in these events to be Rumble.}}

=====''Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers'' comic=====
[[Image:Superrobotlifemanga rumble and frenzy.jpg|left|150px|thumb|There, we didn't color them! Problem solved!]]

In the late 1980s, working with Soundwave and his fellow Cassettes, Rumble attacked Bumblebee and the Autobot's human friend [[Kenji]] during their patrol of Tokyo. [[Powerglide (G1)|Powerglide]] swooped in to take Kenji to safety, and Bumblebee easily eluded the inept Rumble long enough to execute a [[Bumble Kick]]! against Soundwave. With his chest-port damaged, Soundwave was unable to hide Rumble and the other Cassettes when [[Ironhide (G1)|Ironhide]] and [[Cliffjumper (G1)|Cliffjumper]] arrived to back up Bumblebee. They ended up just bouncing off Soundwave's chest in cassette mode. Cliffjumper grabbed them and began tearing out their magnetic tape which, if you think about it, seems kinda horrific. {{storylink|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers issue 2|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers #2}}

Rumble eventually recovered. In another scheme, the Decepticons tried to frame the Autobots for attacking Earth by giving the [[Stunticon (G1)|Stunticons]] fake sigils and sending them on a mayhem spree. Dressed in snazzy robes to hide their identities, Rumble and Frenzy then began fanning the flames by preaching openly against the Autobots in human cities. Their cover was blown, however, when [[Inferno (G1)|Inferno]] and [[Hot Spot (G1)|Hot Spot]] washed the fake insignia off the Decepticons. Rumble and Frenzy were zapped by [[Eject]] and [[Rewind]], revealing their identities as well. {{storylink|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers issue 7|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers #7}}

=====Full Throttle Scramble Power!=====

When [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]] arrived to bust up the Decepticons' plan to terrorize the world with their [[Omega Whip]] cannon, Rumble (or Frenzy) was among the robots shown being scattered by the shockwaves created by the landing of the titantic Autobot. {{storylink|Full Throttle Scramble Power!}}

=====''The Stargate Battles''=====
[[Image:Stargatebattles rumble and frenzy.jpg|right|thumb|250px]]
In the late 1990s, Starscream forged a clandestine alliance with the Prime Minister of [[Japan]], promising that the country would be safe from attack by the Decepticons if they were allowed to freely and harmlessly collect energy within its borders, in secret from the rest of the world. Naturally, however, Starscream had no intention of actually honoring this agreement, and sent Rumble and Frenzy to the bottom of the sub-oceanic [[Pacific Ring of Fire|Japan Trench]], where they used their piledrivers to stimulate the tectonic plates of the trench and cause small earthquakes throughout Japan. As Starscream predicted, the quakes supplied massive amounts of energy for the Decepticons to gather, but were perceived as natural occurrences by the populace. Megatron was not impressed by the scheme, however, suspecting the Autobots would soon realize the truth... and he was, of course, completely right. When Optimus Prime and a team of Autobots arrived to investigate and caught the Decepticons in the act, Megatron had Rumble and Frenzy kick things into overdrive, causing a catastrophic quake that devastated Tokyo and covered the Decepticons' escape. The quake was so powerful that it actually threatened to sink the entire island of Japan, but before that could come to pass, Hound confronted Rumble and Frenzy and overpowered them by confusing them with his holograms. {{storylink|Activation}}
{{--}}

=====''The Headmasters'' cartoon=====

:''Voice actor:'' [[Hirohiko Kakegawa]]

[[Image:Hm_ep4_twincast_vs_tapes.jpg|left|thumb|300px]]

In the year 2011, when Soundwave was destroyed in battle with Blaster, Rumble and all the other cassettes gathered on [[Chaar]] to watch as the Decepticon [[Headmaster (technology)|Headmaster]] leader [[Scorponok (G1)|Scorponok]] used the super-technology of the planet [[Master (planet)|Master]] to resurrect their master as Soundblaster. The cassette team then helped to defend Soundblaster when he was focused on using a sonic control to remotely direct the actions of the Decepticons' new [[Madmachine]], but Blaster—now reborn as Twincast—was able to get past them and stop his rival. {{storylink|The Great Cassette Operation}}

Alongside Ravage, Ratbat and [[Buzzsaw (G1)|Buzzsaw]], Rumble was able to sneak into the lower levels of the Autobot-controlled Cybertron, and enter Vector Sigma's chamber, where he observed that the computer was in the process of a developing a new alloy named [[cybertonuron]]. {{storylink|Cybertron Is in Grave Danger, Part 1}}

{{note|Prepare for a headache on this one. The robot who enters Vector Sigma's chamber is the blue robot, hence, we're calling him Rumble here. However, in Japan, being blue means he should be Frenzy...but the credits of the episode ''actually list him as Rumble''. So whether or not the credits are wrong and this is Frenzy who we're calling Rumble, or if the coloring is wrong and he should be Rumble who we'd normally call Frenzy, is, at this point, genuinely impossible to tell. So we're calling a duck a duck!}}

[[Image:Hm_ep15_rumble_or_frenzy.jpg|right|thumb|220px|Maybe he's just a miscolored [[Enemy]].]]

Some time later, either Rumble or Frenzy was dispatched by Soundblaster to deal with Blaster's cassettes when the Autobot communicator came to Chaar to spy on the unveiling of Scorponok's [[Transtector]]. {{storylink|Explosion on Mars!! MegaZarak Appears}}

{{note|We can't tell if it's Rumble or Frenzy because... well, dude, look at the picture.}}

The arrival of Scorponok's new information officer, [[Punch (G1)|Counterpunch]], put Soundblaster in a bad mood, as he had the ability to dredge up Autobot info that even Soundblaster and his expert team of spies could not. They had no idea, of course, that this was because Counterpunch was actually the undercover Autobot double agent Punch, but nonetheless, Rumble and the other tapes consoled their boss and promised to try harder. {{storylink|Return of the Immortal Emperor}}

While on the planets of [[Twin Star]], Soundblaster deployed Rumble and Frenzy to search for the energy supposedly hidden somewhere on the planet. {{storylink|Battle for Defense of the False Planet}} Some time later, Rumble and the rest of Soundblaster's cassettes were seen standing guard outside the subterranean cavern on Master in which Scorponok was constructing his [[Zarak Shield]]. {{storylink|Operation: Destroy the Decepticons}}

=====''The Headmasters'' comic=====
When the Decepticons were finally forced off Earth, Soundblaster and his cassettes stayed behind on the planet to gather information. After a run in with [[Chromedome (G1)|Chromedome]], Soundblaster was hurled over the horizon by the Autobot Headmaster's "Master Chrome Hurricane-Throw to the End of Hell" attack. Rumble and Frenzy attempted to wake their boss up as [[Sixshot]] approached, warning him that he was going to get in trouble. {{storylink|The Headmasters issue 8|The Headmasters #8}}

===Dreamwave comics continuity===
{{notekeepers}}
Rumble, under his commanding officer Soundwave, was one of the earliest recruits Megatron made for his Decepticon faction millions of years ago. Rumble and his brother Frenzy remained loyal to the primary Decepticon faction under Shockwave's command during the [[War Within: The Dark Ages|Dark Ages]], and remained part of the Decepticon hierarchy after Megatron returned from [[Quintessa]] with his new [[Aerospace Extermination Squadron]]. The punk brothers were seen naming off Autobot casualties for the fun of it after the Age of Internment began. {{storylink|The Age of Wrath issue 3|The Age of Wrath #3}}

Four million years ago, Rumble was part of the crew of the ''Nemesis'' which crashed to Earth alongside the Autobots and the Ark. He was revived in 1984 along with the other Transformers for roughly a decade of renewed warfare, before the Autobots ultimately defeated the Decepticons and rendered them inoperative. Their triumphant return to Cybertron aboard the [[Ark II]] was sabotaged, however, and the Transformers were all believed destroyed in the resulting explosion. Instead, many of them were recovered by the mercenary named [[Lazarus]], who made efforts to reprogram the Cybertronians into weapons for his disposal. Megatron managed to override Lazarus's control, though, and freed his fellow Decepticons. {{storylink|Prime Directive}}

{{note|In [[Prime Directive issue 2|''Prime Directive'' #2]], the blue robot with the Rumble/Frenzy bodyform was among those under the control of Lazarus who attacked the [[Smitco Oil Refinery]], and was seen using Rumble's characteristic piledrivers. It was generally assumed by readers at the time that this was intended to be Rumble in his cartoon color scheme (and indeed, he probably ''was'' scripted and drawn as Rumble) but subsequent Dreamwave fiction established that in this world, as in most others, Rumble is the red one. So whether this is Frenzy using piledrivers or an incorrectly-colored Rumble is up to the reader to decide.}}

''Rumble stayed out of Decepticon politics during the [[Keeper (species)|Keepers]]' interaction with the Transformers on Earth. He chose to work with Starscream in [[Las Vegas]] after Megatron's disappearance, and even remained in Vegas after Megatron returned and splintered the Decepticon army, but otherwise did little of note. {{storylink|Annihilation}}''

When [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] arrived from Cybertron, he managed to defeat Megatron and assume control of the Decepticons in the name of the greater Unified Cybertronian government. Rumble and Frenzy were placed in charge of guarding the deactivated Megatron on the flight back to Cybertron, but were tossed aside by Starscream so that he could jettison Megatron into space. {{storylink|New World Order}} Later, Shockwave commissioned them to create a distraction that would keep [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] from fully realizing his plans, by unleashing the crazed [[Stunticon (G1)|Stunticons]] from a [[Detention Banks|detention facility]]. Once again, Starscream intervened on their mission, retrieving five additional prisoners, the [[Combaticon (G1)|Combaticons]], for his own purposes. {{storylink|Cold War}}

As Shockwave's government began to collapse around him, Starscream convinced his fellow comrades from Earth to follow him back to that planet and raid it for energon. {{storylink|Revelation (War and Peace)|Revelation}} However, his initial "battle plan" against the Autobots led to more than half his forces being captured, including Rumble and Frenzy. After the Autobots were forced into a deal with Starscream due to the threat of [[Sunstorm (G1)|Sunstorm]], Rumble and the other Decepticon captives were released, but charged to only 50% power. {{storylink|Black Sunshine}} At this point, Soundwave took steps to reunite the Decepticons with their true leader, Megatron, and shortly thereafter Megatron and the [[Predacon (G1)|Predacons]] arrived on Earth and overthrew Starscream's command. {{storylink|The Route of All Evil}}

===''G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers''===
[[Image:DDJvTF4-DestroZartan.jpg|left|150px|thumb|]]Rumble was one of the many Transformers recovered from the crashed [[Ark (G1)|Ark]] by [[Cobra]]. He was repaired and retrofitted by [[Doctor Mindbender]], who proudly displayed him, Soundwave, and his fellow Mini-Cassettes to [[Destro]]. {{storylink|G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers issue 2|G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers #2}} Rumble was released by Soundwave, along with [[Laserbeak (G1)|Laserbeak]], [[Frenzy (G1)|Frenzy]], [[Ratbat (G1)|Ratbat]], and [[Ravage (G1)|Ravage]], during an attack on the [[SPS Research Facility|SPS Center]]. Rumble evaded the first wave of [[G.I. Joe (team)|G.I. Joe]] defenders and used his piledrivers to damage the target building. Scaling the building, he menaced [[Flash (G.I. Joe)|Flash]] and [[Sci-Fi]] until [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]] punched his lights out and then threw a missile at him. He was then captured by G.I. Joe. {{storylink|G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers issue 3|G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers #3}}

Apparently having escaped somehow, Rumble was later seen back on [[Cobra Island]] when [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] undid Cobra's reprogramming of the Transformers. He happily chased some of his former captors, Destro and [[Zartan]], across the island until the [[Baroness]] stepped on him with a [[S.N.A.K.E.]] {{storylink|G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers issue 4|G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers #4}}
{{-}}

===''Transformers/G.I. Joe''===
Rumble was among the Decepticons who were accidentally awakened by [[Cobra]] in the late 1930s. Together, the Decepticons and Cobra conquered the [[Fera Islands]], but came under attack from the Autobots and [[G.I. Joe (team)|G.I. Joe]]. Rumble was among the soldiers sent to defend the [[Terrordrome]], using his small stature to disguise himself as a human trooper. After making his way close to the enemy, he used his piledrivers to crack open the ground and bury the Autobot tanks. {{storylink|Trial by Fire (issue)|Trial by Fire}} While Rumble was busy taunting [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] for being friends with "meat", [[Scarlett]] jumped above him using [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]] and destroyed him by tossing a hand grenade in his face. {{storylink|Wolves}}

===''Transformers Legends'' anthology===
Rumble was hanging out with Megatron when Soundwave stopped by with the news that Starscream was apparently getting cozy with the Autobots. Megatron sent Rumble to gather up the Decepticons in the base for an attack to retrieve their wayward comrade, however the attack party was later repelled by the Autobots. {{storylink|Redemption Center}}

===IDW comics continuity===
[[Image:MegOrigin_1_FrenzyandRumble_captured.jpg‎|right|300px|thumb|]]
Rumble and Frenzy started out as "industrial equipment" at [[Mining Outpost C-12]], until the [[Senate]] shut down the site in favor of automating the work involved. Once a furious Megatron kicked off a riot, Rumble and Frenzy joined in the fighting and were soon taken prisoner, destined for "[[The Rig]]" penal facility. They managed to break free aboard [[Longshot|their prison transport]], however, and took control of it with Megatron's help. The renegade miners then fled to [[Kaon]], where they got lost in the underground fighting tournaments that ran rampant throughout that city-state. {{storylink|Megatron Origin issue 1}}

As time passed, Megatron rose high in the ranks of the gladiators, and he brought up Rumble and Frenzy with him. {{storylink|Megatron Origin issue 2}} And when Megatron's passions turned from arena combat to outright insurrection, so did theirs. When Megatron crafted his plan for infiltrating and destroying the Senate, Rumble and his brother underwent alterations so that they could hide inside Soundwave's chest compartment, although neither of them were particularly enthusiastic about it. {{storylink|Megatron Origin issue 3}} Thanks to this subterfuge, the Senate was annihilated and the Security Services of Kaon split open from the inside. Rumble bore witness as Megatron personally beat down and humiliated the Autobot leader, [[Sentinel Prime (G1)|Sentinel Prime]]. {{storylink|Megatron Origin issue 4}}

Four million years ago, Rumble assisted Soundwave in defending an energon convoy from the Autobots. While fighting [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]], Soundwave ejected Rumble for ''Operation: Go For the Eyes!!!'', but [[Ironhide (G1)|Ironhide]] intervened and knocked the junk-punk for a loop. {{storylink|The Iron Age}}

{{note|Although he wasn't explicitly depicted, it's possible Rumble was inside Soundwave when the latter traveled to Earth in 1984, and thus was trapped inside the mode-locked communications officer for over 20 years from ''[[Spotlight: Soundwave]]'' until ''[[Maximum Dinobots]]''.}}

In modern times, Rumble was active on Earth where he helped defeat the local Autobot forces and exile them to Cybertron. {{storylink|All Hail Megatron issue 7}} After this, he was involved in the Decepticon full-frontal offensive on the planet, and the conquest of [[New York City]]. After the siege was over, however, the lack of organized resistance left Rumble with little to do. He and [[Reflector (G1)|Reflector]] took to the streets, blowing up stray abandoned vehicles that happened to remind him of [[Bumblebee (G1)|certain people]]. {{storylink|All Hail Megatron issue 3}}

While on a patrol in New York City, he ran afoul of [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Cmdr. Spike Witwicky]] and three other survivors. Rumble went after Spike and nearly succeeded in knocking him off his motorcycle, but one of the survivors, [[Charles (G1)|Charles]], seeking revenge for his son's death at the hands of Rumble, fired off a shot from a rocket launcher that hit Rumble point blank in the face, downing him instantly. Sensing something wrong, Soundwave found Rumble, picked up his damaged body, and went into a rage in which he lost control of his communications-blocking effect. {{storylink|All Hail Megatron issue 9}} He was apparently repaired and sided with Starscream during his coup. {{storylink|All Hail Megatron issue 10}} When the Autobots returned from their exile, Rumble fought against them alongside [[Shrapnel (G1)|Shrapnel]] and [[Kickback (G1)|Kickback]]. {{storylink|All Hail Megatron issue 11}} However, Megatron was defeated, and the Decepticons were forced to flee the planet aboard [[Astrotrain (G1)|Astrotrain]]. Along with Soundwave and the other cassettes, Rumble spent the trip looking after the severely injured Megatron. {{storylink|All Hail Megatron issue 13|Uneasy Lies the Head}}

Three years later, Starscream's newfound leadership had only led to the Decepticons hiding on some distant, desolate asteroid, where energy was rare and violence was common. Rumble was seen fighting with Kickback over an unknown argument. {{storylink|The Transformers issue 7}}

{{spoiler|Revenge of the Decepticons Part 1: "The Demolished Man"|January 8 2011}}
Following Megatron's restoration, Rumble returned to Earth and attacked a [[Skywatch]] base alongside Soundwave and Frenzy, freeing several Decepticons held in Skywatch custody. Also, [[FIRRIB|he was now blue while Frenzy was red]]. {{storylink|Revenge of the Decepticons Part 1: "The Demolished Man"}}

==Toys==
===Generation 1===
[[Image:G1-toy Rumble.jpg|right|thumb|300px]]
* '''Ravage''' / '''Rumble''' (Cassette 2-pack, 1984/1985/1986)
**''Accessories:'' Left & right "Thruster Guns"

: Rumble was part of the first wave of ''Transformers'' toys released in 1984. Originally a ''[[Micro Change]]'' Microcassette Robo Micross, he transforms into a microcassette that fits into the tape deck compartment of the original [[Soundwave (G1)#Toys|Soundwave]] and [[Blaster (G1)#Toys|Blaster]] toys. In [[Hasbro]] markets, Rumble was only available in a two-pack with [[Ravage (G1)#Toys|Ravage]].

: The 1984 release of the toy has a foil Decepticon symbol decal on Rumble's robot-mode tummy. The 1985 release drops this decal in favor of a [[rubsign]] under the cassette-mode's tape-window. The 1986 release switches out his metal feet for plastic feet.

: This mold was also used to make [[Frenzy (G1)#Toys|Frenzy]], and was used as the basis for [[Enemy]].

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/1984/Decepticon/Rumble/rumble.htm More information on Rumble at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

{{anchor|SoundwaveJapan}}
* '''Soundwave''' (Decepticon, 1985/1986)
**''Japanese ID number:'' '''17'''
**''Accessories:'' Left & right "Thruster Guns"

: In Japan, Rumble was originally only available packaged with the much-more-accessory-laden-than-the-Hasbro-version Soundwave. All versions of this toy have a rubsign.

* '''Rumble''' (Cassettetron, 1987)
**''Japanese ID number:'' '''D-102'''
**''Accessories:'' Left & right "Thruster Guns", cassette case

: Rumble was finally released on his own in Japan during ''[[The Headmasters (toyline)|The Headmasters]]'', in an individual box. Contrary to popular belief, the Cassettes released this way did ''not'' include extra tape cases.

{{-}}

{{-}}{{anchor|JapaneseMultipack}}
* '''Great Cassette Operation Vol.3''' (2009)
**''Encore number'': '''19'''
**''Accessories:'' Left & right "Thruster Guns"

: Rumble was reissued for the first time in over 20 years, along with [[Frenzy (G1)|Frenzy]], [[Overkill (G1)|Overkill]] and [[Laserbeak (G1)|Laserbeak]], as part of [[TakaraTomy|Takara]]'s [[Encore]] line. This toy at the very least features several restored parts (including the head and weapons) if not an entirely new mold based off of the original version. This theory is supported by the copyright Tomy 2009 on the inside of the leg rather than the Hasbro or Takara copyrights, and the different look of the headsculpt. This version of Rumble does not feature any of the cassette mode stickers or those originally on his legs. Most of the cassette details are now painted instead (but not those that end up on his arms in robot mode). The lower leg details are painted as well (but not the upper legs - that detail remains absent). His faction symbols remain stickers.

{{-}}

===Generation 2===
[[Image:G2RumbleProStock.jpg|thumb|300px]]
* "'''Rumble'''" (Go-Bot, <strike>1995</strike>)
**''Accessories'': Rifle

: Part of the canceled fourth wave of ''[[Generation 2 (toyline)|Generation 2]]'' [[Go-Bot (G2)|Go-Bots]], Rumble would have been a race car with a pizza-oriented sponsor ("Vinny's Pizza") and an engine-oriented sponsor ("Jerry's Motors"). He would have transformed into a modified Chevrolet Camaro with exposed engine block. He has through-axle construction to allow for super-fast rolling in car mode. Like his fellow "new"-mold teammates, his rifle stores under his car mode.

: Although he was never officially named in any known documents, his name is written on the front bumper. A very small handful of finished samples have made their way to the secondary market, where they demand some big bucks.

:This mold was redecoed into ''[[Robots in Disguise (toyline)|Robots in Disguise]]'' [[Side Swipe (RID)|Side Swipe]] and ''[[Universe (2003 toyline)|Universe]]'' [[Bluestreak|Silverstreak]].

:Amusingly, he would have been [[FIRRIB|both red ''and'' blue.]]

{{canceledtoy}}

===Alternators===
[[Image:AltRumble.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Nothing says "rebellious" like a Honda Civic!]]
* '''Decepticon Rumble''' (Alternator, 2006)
**''Alternator ID number'': '''24''' (misprint, should be 25)
**''Accessories'': Left & right blasters

: For ''[[Alternators]]'', "[[trademark|Decepticon Rumble]]" transforms into a 1:24-scale licensed 2006 Honda Civic Si, with opening doors, hood, etc. Additionally, instead of traditional hands, Rumble features spring-loaded piledrivers that release from his arms. Accessories include two back-mounted weapons, one of which doubles as his engine in car mode and the other which fits into his trunk.

:Originally intended for normal retail release in the US, he and wave-mate [[Ravage (G1)/toys|Ravage]] got relegated to being Wal-Mart [[Exclusive|exclusives]], released in late March of 2007. He and Ravage are notable for being the first Decepticon Alternators to be entirely new molds, rather than an Autobot mold reworked to be someone else. They are also notable for being the final ''Alternators'' toys to be sold at retail.

: Rumble's seats are mis-assembled, keeping them from reclining completely in car mode. To fix this, unscrew each seat from the bottom of the car, swap them, and then rescrew.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2007/Decepticon/AltRumble/rumble.htm More information on Alternators Rumble at TFU.info]''

===Universe===
[[Image:Universe2003toy-RumbleBotCon.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Wins award for "Most Expensive to Duplicate at Home."]]
* '''Rumble''' (Basic, 2006)
**''Accessories'': Blade, Cybertron-style Decepticon Cyber Key

: Available only in the customization class at [[BotCon 2006]] (along with [[Inferno (BW)|Inferno]]), Rumble is a [[redeco]] of ''[[Cybertron (toyline)|Cybertron]]'' [[Scrapmetal (race)|Scrapmetal]] (using the [[Cobybot]] alternate head), transforming into a four-legged "spider tank" with top-mounted cannon. Inserting a [[Cyber Planet Key]] into the back end of the cannon swings a removable clear-plastic sawblade-sword from the main chamber of the cannon. In robot mode, the fists can be covered with the tank-mode spikes, or a "pile driver".

: Both Rumble and Inferno were only available as unpainted, unassembled parts still connected to their sprues. The individuals taking the class had to assemble and paint the toy. The following Testors paint colors were used: Burnished Gold, British Gulf Armor, British Crimson, Magical Blue, Armored Steel, Flat Black, Camouflauge Gray, and Medium Gray.

{{-}}

===Attacktix===
*'''Rumble'''

:The ''[[Attacktix]]'' Rumble playing piece was never released due to the cancellation of the ''Attacktix'' line. A prototype was seen (along with other unreleased ''Transformers'' and ''Star Wars'' ''Attacktix'' playing pieces at the [http://jediinsider.net/g/albums/CIV/Thursday/Hasbro/ATTACKTIX/404.jpg Celebration IV ''Star Wars'' convention.] Rumble was to be a Trooper-type piece worth 20 points, and would've utilized melee attacks using his piledrivers.

:Unhelpfully for the [[FIRRIB]] argument, ''Attacktix'' Rumble was '''blue'''.

{{canceledtoy}}

===Music Label===
[[Image:MusicLabel Rumble headphone.JPG|right|300px|thumb|Ready to shake, break, rattle and cause hearing problems by the time you're 40!]]

*'''Frenzy & Rumble Playing Earphones''' (2007)

:Released as part of [[TakaraTomy]]'s [[Music Label]] toyline, Rumble and Frenzy share a fairly simplistic transformation from robots to white, circular, working earphones. Although sold separately, they were designed to go well with the Music Label [[Soundwave (G1)/toys|Soundwave MP3 player]].
{{-}}

===Transformers (2010)===
[[Image:Transformers2010toy_demolitionrumble.jpg|right|thumb|300px|I'm blue now? I give up.]]
*'''Demolition Rumble''' (Scout, 2011)

:Rendered, perhaps somewhat surprisingly, in the blue color scheme of Rumble's Generation 1 cartoon appearances (and the original Frenzy toy, specifically the 1986 release gold weapon variant), "Demolition Rumble" transforms into a dual-cannon tank. In robot mode, his arms can transform into the character's familiar pile-driver weapons, and his guns can be attached to either his arms or his back. As part of the ''[[Reveal the Shield]]'' [[subline imprint]], Rumble features a heat-sensitive [[rubsign]].

:This mold was also used to make ''[[United (toyline)|United]]'' Rumble and Frenzy.

{{comingsoontoy}}
{{-}}

===United===
*'''Rumble & Frenzy''' (multi-pack, 2011)
**''Japanese ID number:'' '''UN-20'''

:''[[United (toyline)|United]]'' Rumble is a redeco of 2010 ''Transformers'' Rumble in his red and black colors, since ''United'' is a Japanese toyline and Rumble was always red there. He is only available in a two-pack with Frenzy, who uses the same mold.

{{comingsoontoy}}

==Merchandise==
===Robot Heroes===
* '''Arcee vs. Decepticon Rumble'''

[[Image:Robotheroesrumblearcee.jpg|right|180px|thumb|Red again? I think there's a pattern evolving here...]]
:''[[Robot Heroes (toyline)|Robot Heroes]]'' Rumble is a soft-plastic figurine sculpted in a [[super deformed]] style and with his piledrivers deployed. He has swivel joints in his shoulders and neck, and came in a two-pack with [[Arcee (G1)|Arcee]].

{{-}}

===Transformers - Wall Plaque===
[[Image:Soundwave plaque.jpg|right|thumb]]
* '''Soundwave''' (Diamond Select, 2006)

:Released by Diamond Select Toys in 2006, Soundwave was sculpted by [[Art Asylum]] and limited to 1,000 pieces. He is seen emerging from the space bridge with Rumble, Laserbeak, and Ravage in tow.
{{-}}

===Transformers - Mini Bust===
[[Image:Rumble statue.jpg|right|150px|thumb|So happy to be Blue.]]
* '''Rumble''' (Diamond Select, 2009)

:Released by Diamond Select Toys in 2009, Rumble was sculpted by [[Mark Wong]] of [[Art Asylum]] and limited to 1000 pieces. He is painted in a <del>accurate</del> blue scheme matching his colors in the Generation 1 cartoon. [[Ratbat (G1)|Ratbat]] is seen blazing over his shoulder and decoed in a deeper purple then he is usually depicted in. Rumble is sculpted using his piledrivers and his base has the aftereffects of an earthquake on the left side. A representation of his tape mode is also present on the front of his base.

{{-}}

==Notes==
[[Image:Alt-rumble-toyfairuk2.jpg|right|200px|thumb]]
*On the ''Generation 1'' TV series, Rumble was represented with the colors of [[Frenzy (G1)|Frenzy's]] toy—that is, dark and medium blue, rather than black and red (and vice-versa). This led to some confusion (and later, controversy) amongst fans. (See [[FIRRIB]].)
* In later years, toys sporting the name "Rumble" required an additional "Decepticon" prefix for [[trademark]] reasons, hence making the official name "'''Decepticon Rumble'''".
* Rumble's ''Alternators'' figure was revealed at the UK's Toy Fair. Rather than the figure itself, it was surprisingly an image of concept art for a design that was ultimately never used.
{{-}}

==External links==
*[http://www.tfu.info/1984/Decepticon/Rumble/rumble.htm Rumble at TFU.info]
*[http://www.ntfa.net/universe/english/index.php?act=view&char=Rumble Rumble's Universe profile at NTFA.net]

[[Category:Alternators Decepticons]]
[[Category:Attacktix]]
[[Category:Customization class toys]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Decepticons]]
[[Category:Generation 2 Decepticons]]
[[Category:Mini-Cassettes]]
[[Category:Robot Heroes]]
[[Category:The Headmasters Decepticons]]
[[Category:United Decepticons]]
[[Category:Universe Decepticons]]
[[Category:Universe (2008)]]

Talk:Dark of the Moon (film)/Archive 1

2011-01-02T16:14:15Z

-Blackout-: Archiving

== Release date ==

This page claims a release date of 1 July 2011, yet one of the sources given ([http://tformers.com/transformers-/11777/news.html]) gives a release date of 4 July 2012. Which is correct? [[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:25, 6 October 2009 (EDT)
: That Tformers source is from months ago, before the release date was moved up. --[[Special:Contributions/67.149.197.71|67.149.197.71]] 12:59, 6 October 2009 (EDT)
::Thanks. [[Special:Contributions/199.90.28.195|199.90.28.195]] 15:21, 6 October 2009 (EDT)

Ik hoop dat Transformers 3 is heel beter dan RotF. Of anders... [[Special:Contributions/71.254.158.28|71.254.158.28]] 22:46, 13 October 2009 (EDT)

== Image ==

Wikipedia has a picture of a Transformers 3 titlecard. Should it be put here too? And Megan Fox should be added to the cast list.
--[[Special:Contributions/24.69.64.254|24.69.64.254]] 22:48, 3 December 2009 (EST)
:[https://michaelbay.com/newsblog/files/a2bd79bb4c222b807e27707aaf1497e6-570.html michaelbay.com] does confirm Megan Fox, so she could be included with the reference, but I don't know where that image came from. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 22:56, 3 December 2009 (EST)
::Said titlecard would be from Hasbro's Investor Day presentation back on November 5. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 23:44, 3 December 2009 (EST)
:::Well, then somebody put those things here already --[[Special:Contributions/24.69.64.254|24.69.64.254]] 20:01, 7 December 2009 (EST)
:::I'm waiting...--[[Special:Contributions/142.32.208.231|142.32.208.231]] 15:06, 14 January 2010 (EST)
just take off the picture its inapropriote for the kid users {{unsigned|208.102.3.1|15:53, 12 June 2010 (EDT)}}
:The movies themselves are pretty kid-inappropriate. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 16:00, 12 June 2010 (EDT)
::a silhouette of a woman is not appropriate for kid users? They'd see worse on billboards. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:21, 12 June 2010 (EDT)
:::I'm not too crazy about the image, but I don't think it's too terribly bad [it's nothing compared to some of the Kiss Player stuff or the drawing of Wheelie lifting Teletraan-15's skirt; that stuff troubles me (yes, I know that's the nature of the Kiss Player beast)]. Besides, I have a feeling that the James Bond-ish pic will be removed as soon as we get some pics of the movie posters (might still see it on the Rosie article, though). - [[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 22:52, 12 June 2010 (EDT)
I can add a photo of promotional poster/sign/thing that was part of Hasbro's public-facing booth display at Licensing Expo 2010 (it was next to a Bumblebee Camaro and a life-sized Bumblebee replica). It's a cell phone quality photograph, but it's got Prime in.
--[[User:Wednesday|Wednesday]] 17:42, 20 June 2010 (EDT)
:You might want to just upload the picture, then ask on its Talk Page if it cuts the mustard for this wiki (that's what I did for my pics of Movie Payload; good thing I did because it didn't cut the mustard). - [[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 20:05, 20 June 2010 (EDT)
::[http://skitch.com/wednesday/djnmu/tf3-poster-shot-a I can do that.] I'd need to crop it down a bit. [[User:Wednesday|Wednesday]] 01:07, 21 June 2010 (EST)
:::Pretty! We can definitely use that. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:26, 21 June 2010 (EDT)
::::Grainy, but purty. I know I'm just a commoner here, but I believe it can be used until a sharper image is available. - [[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 15:14, 21 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::Did I say 'grainy'? It looks much better when shrunk down. Good job, Walky, and thanks, Wednesday. - [[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 16:32, 21 June 2010 (EDT)

== James Avery as Silverbot? ==
[http://unscripted.ca/episodes/show/136] --[[User:Eagc7]]

== New Actor Info ==

...is that seriously for real and not an early April Fool's prank on someone's part? Because... WTF? Who ever heard of Frances McDormand and John Malkovich doing anything in a Transformers movie? XD --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 10:54, 22 March 2010 (EDT)
:Hey now. Mrs. McDormand was in Aeon Flux, so it's not like she's above Hollywood fluff. And John Malkovich is in Jonah Hex and did things like Johnny English in the past. The Transformers film franchise attracted Hugo Weaving, Jon Voight and Robert Foxworth before them, so I don't see why other notable actors being cast would be such a shock. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 12:14, 22 March 2010 (EDT)
::Weaving and Foxworth, at least, are both actors who've done mainstream scifi franchise stuff before, so I wasn't surprised by them at all, actually. But I always thought of McDormand and Malkovich as being more artsy movie types. (Maybe I'm just still skeptical that TF3's script is going to be less horrible than TF2's.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 12:30, 22 March 2010 (EDT)
:::Yes, well, as I pointed out, it's not ''all'' they do. McDormand was in Aeon Flux. Malkovich is in a comic book film and was in a Rowan Atkinson comedy once, just to name a few. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 12:37, 22 March 2010 (EDT)
::::<nowiki>*</nowiki>Michael Bay signs biiiiiiiig paycheck* That's why :p --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:31, 22 March 2010 (EDT)
:::::John Malkovich should totally play Dr. Arkeville. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:41, 22 March 2010 (EDT)

== Possible Titles? ==

Has anyone else heard these rumours about the possible titles: Rise of The Primes/Unicron/Galvatron. It is unlikely to be true, but should it be put in the notes, maybe? [[User:Titanus Prime|Titanus Prime]] 14:27, 30 March 2010 (EDT)
:We do not talk about crackpot rumours on this wiki. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:32, 30 March 2010 (EDT)
::As soon as we get an official title, perhaps some of the rumored titles could be noted. Some, not all of them (maybe one or two likely titles and one off-the-wall one). - [[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 22:54, 30 March 2010 (EDT)

== Twins, Ironhide and Ratchet on TF3 ==

http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-movie-just-movie-31/transformers-3-on-set-pictures---a-new-look-for-ratchet-169662/

http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-movie-just-movie-31/first-behind-the-scenes-video-from-transformers-3-169679/ --[[User:Eagc7|Eagc7]] 0:13, 11 May 2010 (EDT)
:These are not official sources. A Humvee does not mean Ratchet WILL get a new paintjob, and a flying car does not indicate the Twins being in the film. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 00:43, 11 May 2010 (EDT)
::Well one guy sayed that skids Would Apepar and throw a car (samrt car) it he sayed that before the video apepared and the video Looks like what he syaed but like you sayed they not offical source, still --[[User:Eagc7|Eagc7]] 01:15, 11 May 2010 (EDT)
:::Bay Confirms tiwns are nto in tf3, but still the chevy spark/beat were spotted on set http://www.leftlanenews.com/chevrolet-spark-transformers-3.html--[[User:Eagc7|Eagc7]]
::::That's still not an official source. If you can find a link where Bay or someone involved with the production says they're in, then that would do. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:35, 11 May 2010 (EDT)
:::::http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-movie-just-movie-31/new-transformers-3-on-set-pictures---including-a-clear-view-of-ratchets-new-look-169900/ Isn't this enough to prove that Ratchet and Ironhide will return?--[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 04:29, 8 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::Not really. For example, the "Ratchet" could just be a fire department truck assigned as part of a NEST unit. Or it could have been painted up after the second movie in expectation of him being used in the third, but before a decision was made not to use him. The bottom line is that those aren't officially released photos. This isn't an "OMG look what I know that you don't site" trying to beat everyone to the punch by making half-baked predictions, it is an archive of what has been officially shown. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 08:10, 8 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::I don't think so. That ambulance is too similar. Hummer H2 and Autobot symbol on it. Autobot symbols are only used in Autobot alternate mode vehicles. NEST vehicles have no symbols or they have NEST logo. And what about Ironhide? Images are excatly enough to confirmation. These should be enough. There are no more proofs needed.--[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 22:46, 8 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::Doesn't matter. Those aren't OFFICIAL photos. They weren't released by Hasbro, Bay or anyone who has any control over things. They are, in effect, STOLEN intellectual property and DO NOT belong here. Whether your contentions turn out to be true or not is irrelevant. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:39, 8 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::Not only that, Michael Bay and others are on the record that they're intentionally spreading false info. Remember how there were sightings of Barricade around the time RotF was filming? - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 14:06, 8 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::The pics have been confirmed and both ratchet and Ironhide have official pics with them being next to optimus prime and bumblebee and Ratchet still has his ''new'' colors. {{unsigned|98.204.17.1}} 16:27 8 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::Nope, we still don't count 'em unless Michael, Don, Nelson, or anyone directly affiliated/working on TF3 comes up and says so. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 16:29, 8 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::Why is this such a hard concept. Unless any new photo/news is released by Hasbro itself or one of the authorities in charge of the film it does not go on the wiki. <Cheetor> PERIOD. <Cheetor).--[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 17:13, 8 June 2010 (EDT)
::Meh noone blevies they are i nmovie, WELL Lets wiat til lfilmngi begisn and you guys will see these pcis are REAL!!! {{unsigned|Eagc7|20:11, 10 June 2010 (EDT)}}
:::It's not a case of not believing they're in the movie. I would say most people believe it. It's a case of these pictures being leaked information without official confirmation. And we don't include that sort of info on the wiki. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 20:14, 10 June 2010 (EDT)
::::Right. This info might be "obvious", but sometimes leaked info is less obvious and open to interpretation. A line has to be drawn somewhere, and no leaked info ever is pretty clear. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 21:00, 10 June 2010 (EDT)
:I have no idea will the Twins really appear or not. But I'm sure Ratchet and Ironhide would still return. Bay has denied appearance of the Twins twice. But as he or anyone lese part of the production says nothing to it, I've no reason to believe that they won't appear. - [[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 14:32, 15 June 2010 (EDT)
::True, but you have no official evidence that they will appear. Therefore, the wiki remains silent on their appearance or non-appearance in TF3. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 11:42, 15 June 2010 (EDT)
:::Looks like someone misunderstood. My point wasn't that their names should be added to the cast list.- [[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 15:44, 15 June 2010 (EDT)
::::Then what the heck WAS your point? This whole thread has been about whether or not these characters are confirmed as part of the cast of the new movie! --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 11:59, 15 June 2010 (EDT)

== Megan Fox ==
She was reportediy axed due to a want not to have Sam tied down with a love intrest.
http://movies.yahoo.com/news/usmovies.accesshollywood.com/megan-fox-dropped-from-transformers-3
:Reuters.com states it's due to Bay and company wishing to go a different direction. http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64J04920100520 Bottom line, Fox is gone. - [[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 21:32, 19 May 2010 (EDT)
::That news about Fox(cited) should probably be front and center in her own article, rather than down the bottom in trivia. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 01:11, 20 May 2010 (EDT)

== Shockwave Has villian and FInal Film in the franchise ==

http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-news-rumors/308221-transformers-3-movie-details-possible-spoilers-2.html
:The above link is to the second page of a forum thread about an article ABOUT the article in question. Here's the actual article: http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2010-06-11-Transformers11_ST_N.htm?csp=usat.me -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 21:21, 10 June 2010 (EDT)
::For those who don't feel like reading through it: no more goofball humor; twins are basically gone; new love interest for Sam; Shockwave is new villain; involves USA/USSR space race; characters who die stay dead this time. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 21:30, 10 June 2010 (EDT)

== DINOBOTS? ==

In a interview with Josh Duhamel was asked if the dinobots are going to be in TF3,and he sayed that ''I can't answer that question'' which pretty much confirms that the Dinobots are going to be in it like they did with devastator in ROTF.so can we add them? {{unsigned|98.204.17.1}} 02:28, 13 June 2010 (EDT)
:His deflection of the question doesn't "pretty much" confirm anything. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 02:39, 13 June 2010 (EDT)
How so, he is playing coy and by now its common sense that when they do that it means its coming.Mis-information campaign. {{unsigned|98.204.17.1}} 11:27, 13 June 2010 (EDT)
:That's not official confirmation. Besides, Josh Duhamel is just an actor; for all we know, Lennox might not interact with the Dinobots. He might not even know who the Dinobots are. For now, they aren't confirmed. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 11:32, 13 June 2010 (EDT)
::"he is playing coy and by now its common sense that when they do that it means its coming.Mis-information campaign." But he could be acting that way to make you think he means the Dinobots are in it when they really aren't. That's the thing about mis-information campaigns, you never really know what it all means until the movie comes out. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:17, 13 June 2010 (EDT)
:::So in short, ''wait'' until Paramount or Bay or other reporting agencies outright says either the Dinobots are going to show up or not. Better accuracy that way. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 13:44, 13 June 2010 (EDT)

== SIDESWIPE ==

Sideswipe was spotted on set.And YES michael bay and crew members were their so can we count that as confirmination? --[[User:Primetime]] 13:49,18 June 2010 (EDT)
:Source? --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 15:52, 18 June 2010 (EDT)
Transformers 3 - Update # 12 ( Filming Locations, Mark Ryan Interview and more!) --[[User:Primetime]] 13:55,18 June 2010 (EDT)

Dear God. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 15:56, 18 June 2010 (EDT)

I Found a video with Be,, swipe and ferrari on set can i psot it? --[[User:Eagc7|Eagc7]]
:'''''NO.''''' We've been over this countless times before, for the first film and for Revenge of the Fallen and now for this: We do not post anything that has not been officially released or revealed by Hasbro, Paramount or Michael Bay. This video was shot without authorization by onlookers on set and is not official. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 02:03, 19 June 2010 (EDT)

== Disclaimer ==

Do we need using a disclaimer/notice on the page[http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Transformers_3_(film) for reference] (not only the talk page), too? Since some users (especially new comers or anons) usually edit the page without reading the talk page first. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 04:55, 19 June 2010 (EDT)
:An excellent idea. - [[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 12:23, 19 June 2010 (EDT)

== MARK RYAN ==

Mark Ryan the previous voice for bumblebee sayed in a interview that he was going to be doing several voices for characters(possible bumblebee).Since we don't know who he will be voicing but this is OFFICIAL can we put this in the notes section or take it in consideration?You can find the interview on the site.--[[User:Primetime]] 13:36, 19 June 2010 (EDT)

http://transformerslive.blogspot.com/
:That doesn't seem to say anything about him doing the on-screen voices, just that on-set voices (as he's always done). Bumblebee is not a guarantee, either. His only known line as Bumblebee in ROTF was cut. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:54, 19 June 2010 (EDT)

== Why ==

So let me get this straight...ummmm...so we can't add characters that were seen in videos or set pics.It safely confirms them so It seems strange that we cant add them it seems a little too...uptight(e.g.Ratchet,Primes G1 style trailer).Don't start bashing me and chewing me out.I just need a calm and good reason why.--[[User:Saberblade|Saberblade]] 1:20, July 15 2010 (EDT)

: We saw Barricade on set during ROTF's filming. Guess who wasn't in the movie? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:26, 15 July 2010 (EDT)

Yes that's true.But Ratchet, sideswipe, and prime were seen during a big chase scene in chicago with a camera crew.hmmmmm.--[[User:Saberblade|Saberblade]] 01:47, 15 July 15 2010 (EDT)

:This is Micheal Bay, he probably drives to work every day in a huge car chase, firing an uzi out of his window. Besides, just because they were being filmed doesn't mean they will actually be in the movie. They could easily be cut later. Plus, it is NOT an OFFICIAL SOURCE. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 01:50, 15 July 2010 (EDT)

:Correct. And we only add officially-released information. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 06:51, 15 July 2010 (EDT)

::The simple reason is that this is an archive of things that "have happened" in the Transformers universes, until the movie is released it "hasn't happened yet". --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 08:49, 15 July 2010 (EDT)

:::And Barricade ''wasn't'' on set during ROTF's filming. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 13:18, 20 July 2010 (EDT)

"We saw Barricade on set during ROTF's filming. Guess who wasn't in the movie? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]]"

:actually, we did't. His altmode was seen 2 months before filming {{unsigned|24.253.95.14}}

I would have one little question: Are the call sheets trusted information?
--[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 7:41, 17 September 2010 (EDT)
:I would say 'no' because Bay could allow phony call sheets to be "leaked". Remember 'The Empire Strikes Back' which had a phony page in the script? I know it's not the same, but it's the same idea. - [[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 09:13, 17 September 2010 (EDT)
::Never heard about that thing with 'The Empire Strikes Back'. --[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 18:34, 17 September 2010 (EDT)
:::The fake page had Vader telling Luke that Obi-Wan killed Luke's dad. - [[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 14:24, 17 September 2010 (EDT)
:::: Obi-Wan kills Luke's Dad? D@mn it, SPOILERS, MAN! Those of us watching through the Clone Wars cartoon to get the story in order don't want to know what's coming up! -ZacWilliam (not signed in and unable to resist.)

== Carly? ==
do this Count has offical Confirmation or not? http://www.shootfortheedit.com/forum/showthread.php?7552-Every-Little-Girl-Should-Be-Told-That-She-s-Pretty-Even-if-She-s-Not.&p=143091#post143091
:I'm so baffled by this I forgot the overblown "NO" reaction I had planned. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 13:20, 20 July 2010 (EDT)
::[http://www.shootfortheedit.com/forum/showthread.php?7566-Transformers-3-Chicago-Set-Photos I guess it's official now.] Also, his news post on Bay's site apparently reveals [https://michaelbay.com/newsblog/files/6e7f5a008e98162953abdfdfca1d32e8-612.php the name of the Ferrari Autobot]. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:36, 20 July 2010 (EDT)
:::Darn, I was pulling for a Bewitched-esque "No, Mikaela's always looked like this". --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:48, 20 July 2010 (EDT)
::::He edited the front page news. Now it says the Ferrari is parked on Rush Street. That's a weird screw up... --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:19, 20 July 2010 (EDT)

== Optimus' Trailer ==

There have been multiple pictures and videos of a semi truck with flames driving a trailer which heavily resembles [[Optimus]]' trailer from G1. The truck is a different truck than the two previous films which does support his redesign. Should we mention it?
:What were the sources of those pictures? Were they from Paramount? From mainstream news programs? From some guy hiding in the bushes and taking pictures with his cell phone? ONLY officially released information may go on this page. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:53, 22 July 2010 (EDT)

==Soundwave's Return==
Is it safe to put Soundwave on the character list since his head was seen on set?
:As the page says, repeatedly and in big letters, SET LEAKS DO NOT COUNT.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 00:49, 24 July 2010 (EDT)
::Is there any way that the Edit button could be rerouted to a page that only reads (and perhaps states audiably) "If your info is from a set leak, don't post it here!"? I know that's virtually impossible, but I (and I'm certain quite a number of those here) are frustrated that these scoop hounds don't seem to understand what "officially released information" is. - [[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 08:24, 24 July 2010 (EDT)
:::The page itself is semi-protected, which already keeps our signal-to-noise pretty good.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 13:24, 24 July 2010 (EDT)

== Rush ==
Where's Rush? He's official, in the movie and confirmed. He should be on the character list
--[[Special:Contributions/92.238.181.196|92.238.181.196]] 13:02, 24 July 2010 (EDT)
:Source? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:17, 24 July 2010 (EDT)
::I haven't seen Geddy Lee in any of these pictures. - [[User:RolonBolon|RolonBolon]] 13:19, 24 July 2010 (EDT)

Who's Geddy Lee? And it DID say Rush was the red ferrari but they must have changed it. That does not make it wrong. You cant just put a character in and remove it when it was confirmed before. Rush seems accurate and its clear they could not miss out the "st" the first time round. Its pure logic. --[[Special:Contributions/92.238.181.196|92.238.181.196]] 13:31, 24 July 2010 (EDT)
:Now it says that the Ferrari is parked on Rush Street. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 13:31, 24 July 2010 (EDT)
::That is NOT logic. It's quite possible that a picture could have been labeled Rush (no "St") as an indication of location. This note could easily have been misinterpreted by someone who didn't know the location as a name and posted. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:34, 24 July 2010 (EDT)

You are perhaps aware of Michael Bay's admission that he likes to spread misinformation right up to the day his movies are released?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 13:38, 24 July 2010 (EDT)

OK so lots of people were mislead as well. And who is Geddy Lee and what has he got to do with the movie? --[[Special:Contributions/92.238.181.196|92.238.181.196]] 13:45, 24 July 2010 (EDT)
:Geddy Lee is the lead singer for the rock band Rush. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 13:45, 24 July 2010 (EDT)
::If Rush is in this movie, I will line up for tickets. "Closer to the heart!" -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 16:41, 24 July 2010 (EDT)

== Page edit ==

I was correcting a grammar error when the human list (and Sam Witwicky) were deleted, moving everyone else to the Decepticons. Can anyone help? -- [[User:Shackwave123|Shackwave123]] 9:33, 28 July 2010 (EDT)
:If </ref> is forgotten from a footnote, it happens. Same thing happened to me once, when I got a permission to edit this page. --[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 10:00, 6 August 2010 (EDT)

== Jolt ==

I know this isn't confirmed but look at this. [http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-movie-discussion/310669-tf3-info-regarding-jolt-confirmed-i-am-100-certain-details-inside.html [1]] But it may be helpful in the future! [[User:Erimal|Erimal]] 22:06, 29 July 2010 (EDT)
:We can't accept "insider source" info like that, nor is it truthfully helpful, and we don't care for info like that. As we said many, ''many'', '''many''' times, the '''''ONLY''''' sources of info that we'll accept is: A) directly from the press, B) directly from Michael or Steven themselves, C) directly from Nelson, Michael's webmaster. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 22:18, 29 July 2010 (EDT)
::I'm afraid Jolt won't return. Check this: http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-movie-just-movie-31/nelson---no-jolt-for-transformers-3-170344/ --[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 10:37, 3 August 2010 (EDT)

== Nelson - Michael Bay's webmaster ==

How do we classify Nelson's comments? Like he posts official news and filmed official hype videos of the Chicago set, and does things with (presumably) Michael Bay's authorisation, but he's also been linking youtube videos by people (unofficially) filming the Chicago set on the front page of Bay's website, videos that reveal things that have not yet been "officially" revealed. So we pick and choose what he says and does based upon what we think is "official" and what is merely him drumming up hype for the movie? I ask because he revealed what the three Nascars (seen in both youtube videos, unofficial set photos AND Nelson's own official set visit video) are referred to as on set at TFW2005, but I don't know how to classify that comment. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 23:52, 30 July 2010 (EDT)
:I'm inclined to go with Nelson's confirmations/denials on the boards, but videos we should hold off since we don't have context to go with it. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 00:05, 31 July 2010 (EDT)
::Yeah, I think if Nelson confirms stuff, we should take that as official word. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 04:05, 31 July 2010 (EDT)
:::http://transformerslive.blogspot.com/2010/08/new-autobot-arrives-and-more-boom.html Nelson confirmed this new Autobot vehicle. It's a fire truck, but it's not Inferno or Hot Spot. --[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 09:11, 3 August 2010 (EDT)

== The Wreckers? ==

Should we include this? ([http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/UnForgottenHero/news/?a=20901]) --[[User:HeyTFWiki|HeyTFWiki]] 03:43, 31 July 2010 (EDT)
:I am asking that very question above your edit. Also, please sign off on your comments. It's the signature-looking button, or just type four of these <nowiki>~</nowiki> --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:57, 31 July 2010 (EDT)
::I'd feel better about including the Wreckers story if they included a link to the forum post in question in their news story. I can't even find a link to the forums on that site! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 04:00, 31 July 2010 (EDT)
:::I found the post, unfortunately the staffer at TFW who reported it is rather inexperienced and gets overexcited, so he forgot to link to the post. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:06, 31 July 2010 (EDT)
::::I'm just sayin'. --[[User:HeyTFWiki|HeyTFWiki]] 04:14, 31 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::Just clarified my above statement. I added the Wreckers thing to the page a few odd minutes ago :) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:46, 31 July 2010 (EDT)
::::::Hope I contributed a big thing :D. By the way, [[User:FFN|FFN]] are you the only one who can edit Transformers 3 --[[User:HeyTFWiki|HeyTFWiki]] 05:00, 31 July 2010 (EDT)

== Einstein Bot not "Q" ==
Nelson confirmed that the "Q" thing was not true information and commented that he didn't know where the confirmation came from. It should probably be taken down, as "Q" seems to merely be a hint as to who it is, but not a potential name. Link is [http://www.shootfortheedit.com/forum/showthread.php?7595-Ok-has-the-bot-list-got-crazy-or-what!/page3 here]. --[[User:Faded-Myth|Faded-Myth]] 21:01, 2 August 2010 (EDT)
:Thanks. I am vindicated of my belief of that NIBMRatchet guy's overeager incompetence. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 23:18, 2 August 2010 (EDT)
http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-movie-just-movie-31/more-transformers-3-spoilers-and-rumors-from-detroit-170570/ Though I read this article, I can't say that Wheeljack's name should be added onto cast list of the film. Word from extra casted people from Detroit filming can't be fully trusted. Even extra casted actors can have misinformation. --[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 18:34, 14 September 2010 (EDT)
:We're not until Nelson, Bay himself, Spielberg himself, or Murphy says otherwise. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 14:39, 14 September 2010 (EDT)
::To CAJH - What part of "We do not care about set leaks. Do not tell us who you saw on the set. Unless you can source it in an official press release or reputable news source, we do not care. Please stop telling us who you saw in set photography." do you not understand? NONE of the various things you have brought here have been official information. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 18:51, 14 September 2010 (EDT)
:::I told you all that information from the previous link can't be fully trusted. Are you saying that because of that, I still shouldn't have even add it here? --[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 8:38, 15 September 2010 (EDT)
:::And besides, this discussion page is to talk about the movie, not for collecting official information. So, there's no reason I would have done anything wrong. --[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 8:41, 15 September 2010 (EDT)
::::Wrong. This is not a chat room or a message board. These talk pages are for discussions relevant to the Wiki and its articles. Just discussing movie speculation is not for here. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 02:13, 15 September 2010 (EDT)
:::Wait a second, you think that even Nelson's words about Jolt's not returning to film and Wheelie's return can't be trusted? "NONE of the various things you have brought here have been official information." I know this page must have an official information revealed. An information that is revealed by any member of the filming crew or producers of the movie. You have no proofs that webmaster's words contain nothing but rumors. That extra casting member who told about Wheeljack or Shockwave can't be fully trusted, but anything else I've added here is not misinformation. Well, anything I've added after I read the rules of these pages.--[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 9:07, 15 September 2010 (EDT)
::::All we're saying is that you didn't need to bring it up because we know not to add Wheeljack's name unless otherwise. As for webmasters, both Nelson and Don work WITH Michael directly, so we trust them a lot more than set reports from extras or people working on the set. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 02:31, 15 September 2010 (EDT)
:::::I wasn't saying it should be added here. But if you say that only links with information that will be necessary are permitted here, then I'll obey.--[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 10:05, 15 September 2010 (EDT)
:::::Hey hey, I forgot one thing. That Mercedes car hasn't evem been seen in Detroit. So how could anyone know that the Wheeljack really meant that Mercedes? By no means. I can't believe I didn't write it earlier. --[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 14:49, 15 September 2010 (EDT)

==Wheelie==
Wheelie returns. Confirmed by Nelson. http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-movie-just-movie-31/wheelies-back-in-transformers-3-170366/
The sam elink confirms also that the Jeep seen in Chicago is not in movie as we thought. --[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 8:42, 6 August 2010 (EDT)
:Who is "nelson"? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 09:32, 15 September 2010 (EDT)
::The answer is [[Talk:The Dark of the Moon (film)#Nelson_-_Michael_Bay.27s_webmaster|on this very page]]. But if you don't want to click, Nelson is Michael Bay's webmaster, and here his information is considered an official source. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 09:40, 15 September 2010 (EDT)

==Inferno as new Autobot ?==
yes as new Autobot ::[http://skitch.com/wedenesday/djnmu/tf3-poster-shot-a I can do that.]
:I followed the link and saw this: "This object is not available! Perhaps you should contact wedenesday for more information?". Sorry, ace, but no dice. Everybody with me: "Wait for ''official'' (please denote the "'''official'''" part) news releases about the movie." In other words, if Michael Bay's website or the Associated Press didn't say it, it doesn't go here. - [[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 22:20, 7 August 2010 (EDT)
::If you mean that firetruck Autobot, you better know this. Nelson told that it's not Inferno. You wanna watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWCkIggT8yk Don't take it as official information, but this will sound very crazy. - [[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 13:52, 29 August 2010 (EDT)

==MEGATRON==
Megatron is coming back for Transformers 3 so why does his name keep getting removed from the cast his face has being seen pinned up in Chicago. Check out the Link. http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-movie-just-movie-31/megatron-returns-for-transformers-3-170294/ --{{unsigned|Plo Koon 1}} 14:58, 25 August 2010

:READ THE NOTICE AT THE TOP OF THIS PAGE. We do not accept ANY info that was not released by Bay, his webmaster, Hasbro, or Paramount. We take officially released info only and these pictures ARE NOT. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 15:02, 25 August 2010 (EDT)
::And there's always the chance of them changing things mid-shooting. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 15:15, 25 August 2010 (EDT)
:::Plus, may I add that it could be a stand-in for a new baddie? It's cheaper to use a leftover prop than make a new cardboard face. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the guy who slapped that face on the pole didn't even know who it was. It's ''likely'' Megs will be back, but wait for '''''official''''' news. - [[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 16:49, 25 August 2010 (EDT)
::::It is now official. Check out this link. Also, the original wikipedia.org states that he will be in it, and since we are a wiki site, shouldn't we have that info too?[[Special:Contributions/166.109.0.45|166.109.0.45]] 11:38, 21 December 2010 (EST)
::::: NO IT IS NOT. NOT A HARD CONCEPT. If it's not from BAY or His Webmaster or Paramount itself released for the public then it's NOT OFFICIAL. Also, no we are not associated with wikipedia and could care less what they put on their site. Sigh. --[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 11:46, 21 December 2010 (EST)
::::::I understand that it must be official, and it cannot be some random blogger. However, if I may say tfw2005.com is a website trusted by hasbro. But why shouldn't we have it if wikipedia.org has it. Shouldn't we have more information then them about Tranformers. And i would say since wikipedia.org is much stricter, I would guess they have a good reason for putting it there, if you don't mind explaining that. And i'd hate to be rude, but why can't we have information from the set on our site? If the information is out, why can't we have it? Also, other websites state that people like Soundwave and Starscream will also be in the film, so why are we the only site that just says Shockwave is in it so far. I am not trying to be rude here.[[Special:Contributions/166.109.0.45|166.109.0.45]] 12:03, 22 December 2010 (EST)
:::::::You need to understand that the photos that have allowed TFW2005 to make this news post are of a stolen toy. We do not add anything to the wiki based on "leaked, stolen or snuck" material. ''We'' actually respect Hasbro's wishes when it comes to the flow of information, which other sites do not. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 12:21, 22 December 2010 (EST)
::::::::Well on various video featurettes, Hasbro does say that they respect these sites and listen to them. They also respected hasbro after they said to remove the photos and they are not posting them up again until Hasbro says they can. I can understand the different policies, so to respond to that comment, I think we can conclude that Tfw2005.com and this site both respect hasbro, just in different ways. I am confused that wikipedia.org itself does not respect Hasbro, and states that Megatron is in the film, and uses seibertron.com as a reference. Could I get an explanation please?[[Special:Contributions/166.109.0.45|166.109.0.45]] 13:52, 22 December 2010 (EST)
:::::::::You would have to ask wikipedia.org. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 14:32, 22 December 2010 (EST)
::::::Look, what we're after here is not to get the information in as fast as possible. What we want is ''accurate'', official information that has been released by Hasbro. Is that how Megatron's toy will look? Probably. Is he going to be in the movie? I'd be surprised if he wasn't. Things are subject to change, and we want the information to be accurate and precise. An encyclopedia that is inaccurate is useless, and we want to be accurate. So just be patient. It will be put in eventually. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 14:56, 22 December 2010 (EST)

== Decepticons ==

Since when were Megatron, Starscream, and Soundwave confirmed? I've seen them being added a ton of times but I can't find any official source that confirms it. Should those edits be undone or did I just miss something big? --[[User:Kirby|Kirby]] 11:43, 3 September 2010 (EDT)
:Those names were added by a relatively inexperienced editor, I have removed them. Unless he/she can show reliable sources for their being in the movie (not just "but OF COURSE they'll be back... It's Megatron, Starscream, and Soundwave!") they should not be listed. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:03, 3 September 2010 (EDT)
:Yeah, I thought so. I just thought that putting it on the talk page would be better than going right up and reverting it. I've noticed that a lot of my edits are just removing stuff --[[User:Kirby|Kirby]] 12:06, 3 September 2010 (EDT)
:I don't think that Hasbro can not put Megatron, Starscream and Soundwave in the new movie, the popularity of the transformers would drop.
::You wouldn't think that Hasbro would kill off most of the memorable G1 cast either, but they did that too. What I'm getting at is that stranger things have happened. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 04:04, 10 November 2010 (EST)

Talk:Transformers: Dark of the Moon (film)

2011-01-02T16:14:02Z

-Blackout-: Archiving because, well, GODDAMN IT

Talk:Transformers: Dark of the Moon (film)

2011-01-02T16:07:12Z

-Blackout-: This talk page is WAY too long

'''We do not care about leaks. Do not tell us who you saw on the set. Do not present us with images of stolen toys. Unless you can [[Help:Official info|source it in an official press release or reputable news source]], we do not care. Please stop telling us who you saw in set photography.'''

{{chapters
|title=Talk:Dark of the Moon (film) Archives
|content=*[[Talk:Dark of the Moon (film)/Archive 1|Archive 1]]
}}

== Release date ==

This page claims a release date of 1 July 2011, yet one of the sources given ([http://tformers.com/transformers-/11777/news.html]) gives a release date of 4 July 2012. Which is correct? [[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:25, 6 October 2009 (EDT)
: That Tformers source is from months ago, before the release date was moved up. --[[Special:Contributions/67.149.197.71|67.149.197.71]] 12:59, 6 October 2009 (EDT)
::Thanks. [[Special:Contributions/199.90.28.195|199.90.28.195]] 15:21, 6 October 2009 (EDT)

Ik hoop dat Transformers 3 is heel beter dan RotF. Of anders... [[Special:Contributions/71.254.158.28|71.254.158.28]] 22:46, 13 October 2009 (EDT)

== Image ==

Wikipedia has a picture of a Transformers 3 titlecard. Should it be put here too? And Megan Fox should be added to the cast list.
--[[Special:Contributions/24.69.64.254|24.69.64.254]] 22:48, 3 December 2009 (EST)
:[https://michaelbay.com/newsblog/files/a2bd79bb4c222b807e27707aaf1497e6-570.html michaelbay.com] does confirm Megan Fox, so she could be included with the reference, but I don't know where that image came from. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 22:56, 3 December 2009 (EST)
::Said titlecard would be from Hasbro's Investor Day presentation back on November 5. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 23:44, 3 December 2009 (EST)
:::Well, then somebody put those things here already --[[Special:Contributions/24.69.64.254|24.69.64.254]] 20:01, 7 December 2009 (EST)
:::I'm waiting...--[[Special:Contributions/142.32.208.231|142.32.208.231]] 15:06, 14 January 2010 (EST)
just take off the picture its inapropriote for the kid users {{unsigned|208.102.3.1|15:53, 12 June 2010 (EDT)}}
:The movies themselves are pretty kid-inappropriate. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 16:00, 12 June 2010 (EDT)
::a silhouette of a woman is not appropriate for kid users? They'd see worse on billboards. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:21, 12 June 2010 (EDT)
:::I'm not too crazy about the image, but I don't think it's too terribly bad [it's nothing compared to some of the Kiss Player stuff or the drawing of Wheelie lifting Teletraan-15's skirt; that stuff troubles me (yes, I know that's the nature of the Kiss Player beast)]. Besides, I have a feeling that the James Bond-ish pic will be removed as soon as we get some pics of the movie posters (might still see it on the Rosie article, though). - [[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 22:52, 12 June 2010 (EDT)
I can add a photo of promotional poster/sign/thing that was part of Hasbro's public-facing booth display at Licensing Expo 2010 (it was next to a Bumblebee Camaro and a life-sized Bumblebee replica). It's a cell phone quality photograph, but it's got Prime in.
--[[User:Wednesday|Wednesday]] 17:42, 20 June 2010 (EDT)
:You might want to just upload the picture, then ask on its Talk Page if it cuts the mustard for this wiki (that's what I did for my pics of Movie Payload; good thing I did because it didn't cut the mustard). - [[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 20:05, 20 June 2010 (EDT)
::[http://skitch.com/wednesday/djnmu/tf3-poster-shot-a I can do that.] I'd need to crop it down a bit. [[User:Wednesday|Wednesday]] 01:07, 21 June 2010 (EST)
:::Pretty! We can definitely use that. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:26, 21 June 2010 (EDT)
::::Grainy, but purty. I know I'm just a commoner here, but I believe it can be used until a sharper image is available. - [[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 15:14, 21 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::Did I say 'grainy'? It looks much better when shrunk down. Good job, Walky, and thanks, Wednesday. - [[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 16:32, 21 June 2010 (EDT)

== James Avery as Silverbot? ==
[http://unscripted.ca/episodes/show/136] --[[User:Eagc7]]

== New Actor Info ==

...is that seriously for real and not an early April Fool's prank on someone's part? Because... WTF? Who ever heard of Frances McDormand and John Malkovich doing anything in a Transformers movie? XD --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 10:54, 22 March 2010 (EDT)
:Hey now. Mrs. McDormand was in Aeon Flux, so it's not like she's above Hollywood fluff. And John Malkovich is in Jonah Hex and did things like Johnny English in the past. The Transformers film franchise attracted Hugo Weaving, Jon Voight and Robert Foxworth before them, so I don't see why other notable actors being cast would be such a shock. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 12:14, 22 March 2010 (EDT)
::Weaving and Foxworth, at least, are both actors who've done mainstream scifi franchise stuff before, so I wasn't surprised by them at all, actually. But I always thought of McDormand and Malkovich as being more artsy movie types. (Maybe I'm just still skeptical that TF3's script is going to be less horrible than TF2's.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 12:30, 22 March 2010 (EDT)
:::Yes, well, as I pointed out, it's not ''all'' they do. McDormand was in Aeon Flux. Malkovich is in a comic book film and was in a Rowan Atkinson comedy once, just to name a few. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 12:37, 22 March 2010 (EDT)
::::<nowiki>*</nowiki>Michael Bay signs biiiiiiiig paycheck* That's why :p --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:31, 22 March 2010 (EDT)
:::::John Malkovich should totally play Dr. Arkeville. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:41, 22 March 2010 (EDT)

== Possible Titles? ==

Has anyone else heard these rumours about the possible titles: Rise of The Primes/Unicron/Galvatron. It is unlikely to be true, but should it be put in the notes, maybe? [[User:Titanus Prime|Titanus Prime]] 14:27, 30 March 2010 (EDT)
:We do not talk about crackpot rumours on this wiki. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:32, 30 March 2010 (EDT)
::As soon as we get an official title, perhaps some of the rumored titles could be noted. Some, not all of them (maybe one or two likely titles and one off-the-wall one). - [[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 22:54, 30 March 2010 (EDT)

== Twins, Ironhide and Ratchet on TF3 ==

http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-movie-just-movie-31/transformers-3-on-set-pictures---a-new-look-for-ratchet-169662/

http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-movie-just-movie-31/first-behind-the-scenes-video-from-transformers-3-169679/ --[[User:Eagc7|Eagc7]] 0:13, 11 May 2010 (EDT)
:These are not official sources. A Humvee does not mean Ratchet WILL get a new paintjob, and a flying car does not indicate the Twins being in the film. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 00:43, 11 May 2010 (EDT)
::Well one guy sayed that skids Would Apepar and throw a car (samrt car) it he sayed that before the video apepared and the video Looks like what he syaed but like you sayed they not offical source, still --[[User:Eagc7|Eagc7]] 01:15, 11 May 2010 (EDT)
:::Bay Confirms tiwns are nto in tf3, but still the chevy spark/beat were spotted on set http://www.leftlanenews.com/chevrolet-spark-transformers-3.html--[[User:Eagc7|Eagc7]]
::::That's still not an official source. If you can find a link where Bay or someone involved with the production says they're in, then that would do. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:35, 11 May 2010 (EDT)
:::::http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-movie-just-movie-31/new-transformers-3-on-set-pictures---including-a-clear-view-of-ratchets-new-look-169900/ Isn't this enough to prove that Ratchet and Ironhide will return?--[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 04:29, 8 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::Not really. For example, the "Ratchet" could just be a fire department truck assigned as part of a NEST unit. Or it could have been painted up after the second movie in expectation of him being used in the third, but before a decision was made not to use him. The bottom line is that those aren't officially released photos. This isn't an "OMG look what I know that you don't site" trying to beat everyone to the punch by making half-baked predictions, it is an archive of what has been officially shown. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 08:10, 8 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::I don't think so. That ambulance is too similar. Hummer H2 and Autobot symbol on it. Autobot symbols are only used in Autobot alternate mode vehicles. NEST vehicles have no symbols or they have NEST logo. And what about Ironhide? Images are excatly enough to confirmation. These should be enough. There are no more proofs needed.--[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 22:46, 8 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::Doesn't matter. Those aren't OFFICIAL photos. They weren't released by Hasbro, Bay or anyone who has any control over things. They are, in effect, STOLEN intellectual property and DO NOT belong here. Whether your contentions turn out to be true or not is irrelevant. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:39, 8 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::Not only that, Michael Bay and others are on the record that they're intentionally spreading false info. Remember how there were sightings of Barricade around the time RotF was filming? - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 14:06, 8 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::The pics have been confirmed and both ratchet and Ironhide have official pics with them being next to optimus prime and bumblebee and Ratchet still has his ''new'' colors. {{unsigned|98.204.17.1}} 16:27 8 June 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::Nope, we still don't count 'em unless Michael, Don, Nelson, or anyone directly affiliated/working on TF3 comes up and says so. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 16:29, 8 June 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::Why is this such a hard concept. Unless any new photo/news is released by Hasbro itself or one of the authorities in charge of the film it does not go on the wiki. <Cheetor> PERIOD. <Cheetor).--[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 17:13, 8 June 2010 (EDT)
::Meh noone blevies they are i nmovie, WELL Lets wiat til lfilmngi begisn and you guys will see these pcis are REAL!!! {{unsigned|Eagc7|20:11, 10 June 2010 (EDT)}}
:::It's not a case of not believing they're in the movie. I would say most people believe it. It's a case of these pictures being leaked information without official confirmation. And we don't include that sort of info on the wiki. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 20:14, 10 June 2010 (EDT)
::::Right. This info might be "obvious", but sometimes leaked info is less obvious and open to interpretation. A line has to be drawn somewhere, and no leaked info ever is pretty clear. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 21:00, 10 June 2010 (EDT)
:I have no idea will the Twins really appear or not. But I'm sure Ratchet and Ironhide would still return. Bay has denied appearance of the Twins twice. But as he or anyone lese part of the production says nothing to it, I've no reason to believe that they won't appear. - [[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 14:32, 15 June 2010 (EDT)
::True, but you have no official evidence that they will appear. Therefore, the wiki remains silent on their appearance or non-appearance in TF3. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 11:42, 15 June 2010 (EDT)
:::Looks like someone misunderstood. My point wasn't that their names should be added to the cast list.- [[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 15:44, 15 June 2010 (EDT)
::::Then what the heck WAS your point? This whole thread has been about whether or not these characters are confirmed as part of the cast of the new movie! --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 11:59, 15 June 2010 (EDT)

== Megan Fox ==
She was reportediy axed due to a want not to have Sam tied down with a love intrest.
http://movies.yahoo.com/news/usmovies.accesshollywood.com/megan-fox-dropped-from-transformers-3
:Reuters.com states it's due to Bay and company wishing to go a different direction. http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64J04920100520 Bottom line, Fox is gone. - [[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 21:32, 19 May 2010 (EDT)
::That news about Fox(cited) should probably be front and center in her own article, rather than down the bottom in trivia. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 01:11, 20 May 2010 (EDT)

== Shockwave Has villian and FInal Film in the franchise ==

http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-news-rumors/308221-transformers-3-movie-details-possible-spoilers-2.html
:The above link is to the second page of a forum thread about an article ABOUT the article in question. Here's the actual article: http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2010-06-11-Transformers11_ST_N.htm?csp=usat.me -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 21:21, 10 June 2010 (EDT)
::For those who don't feel like reading through it: no more goofball humor; twins are basically gone; new love interest for Sam; Shockwave is new villain; involves USA/USSR space race; characters who die stay dead this time. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 21:30, 10 June 2010 (EDT)

== DINOBOTS? ==

In a interview with Josh Duhamel was asked if the dinobots are going to be in TF3,and he sayed that ''I can't answer that question'' which pretty much confirms that the Dinobots are going to be in it like they did with devastator in ROTF.so can we add them? {{unsigned|98.204.17.1}} 02:28, 13 June 2010 (EDT)
:His deflection of the question doesn't "pretty much" confirm anything. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 02:39, 13 June 2010 (EDT)
How so, he is playing coy and by now its common sense that when they do that it means its coming.Mis-information campaign. {{unsigned|98.204.17.1}} 11:27, 13 June 2010 (EDT)
:That's not official confirmation. Besides, Josh Duhamel is just an actor; for all we know, Lennox might not interact with the Dinobots. He might not even know who the Dinobots are. For now, they aren't confirmed. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 11:32, 13 June 2010 (EDT)
::"he is playing coy and by now its common sense that when they do that it means its coming.Mis-information campaign." But he could be acting that way to make you think he means the Dinobots are in it when they really aren't. That's the thing about mis-information campaigns, you never really know what it all means until the movie comes out. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:17, 13 June 2010 (EDT)
:::So in short, ''wait'' until Paramount or Bay or other reporting agencies outright says either the Dinobots are going to show up or not. Better accuracy that way. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 13:44, 13 June 2010 (EDT)

== SIDESWIPE ==

Sideswipe was spotted on set.And YES michael bay and crew members were their so can we count that as confirmination? --[[User:Primetime]] 13:49,18 June 2010 (EDT)
:Source? --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 15:52, 18 June 2010 (EDT)
Transformers 3 - Update # 12 ( Filming Locations, Mark Ryan Interview and more!) --[[User:Primetime]] 13:55,18 June 2010 (EDT)

Dear God. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 15:56, 18 June 2010 (EDT)

I Found a video with Be,, swipe and ferrari on set can i psot it? --[[User:Eagc7|Eagc7]]
:'''''NO.''''' We've been over this countless times before, for the first film and for Revenge of the Fallen and now for this: We do not post anything that has not been officially released or revealed by Hasbro, Paramount or Michael Bay. This video was shot without authorization by onlookers on set and is not official. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 02:03, 19 June 2010 (EDT)

== Disclaimer ==

Do we need using a disclaimer/notice on the page[http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Transformers_3_(film) for reference] (not only the talk page), too? Since some users (especially new comers or anons) usually edit the page without reading the talk page first. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 04:55, 19 June 2010 (EDT)
:An excellent idea. - [[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 12:23, 19 June 2010 (EDT)

== MARK RYAN ==

Mark Ryan the previous voice for bumblebee sayed in a interview that he was going to be doing several voices for characters(possible bumblebee).Since we don't know who he will be voicing but this is OFFICIAL can we put this in the notes section or take it in consideration?You can find the interview on the site.--[[User:Primetime]] 13:36, 19 June 2010 (EDT)

http://transformerslive.blogspot.com/
:That doesn't seem to say anything about him doing the on-screen voices, just that on-set voices (as he's always done). Bumblebee is not a guarantee, either. His only known line as Bumblebee in ROTF was cut. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:54, 19 June 2010 (EDT)

== Why ==

So let me get this straight...ummmm...so we can't add characters that were seen in videos or set pics.It safely confirms them so It seems strange that we cant add them it seems a little too...uptight(e.g.Ratchet,Primes G1 style trailer).Don't start bashing me and chewing me out.I just need a calm and good reason why.--[[User:Saberblade|Saberblade]] 1:20, July 15 2010 (EDT)

: We saw Barricade on set during ROTF's filming. Guess who wasn't in the movie? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:26, 15 July 2010 (EDT)

Yes that's true.But Ratchet, sideswipe, and prime were seen during a big chase scene in chicago with a camera crew.hmmmmm.--[[User:Saberblade|Saberblade]] 01:47, 15 July 15 2010 (EDT)

:This is Micheal Bay, he probably drives to work every day in a huge car chase, firing an uzi out of his window. Besides, just because they were being filmed doesn't mean they will actually be in the movie. They could easily be cut later. Plus, it is NOT an OFFICIAL SOURCE. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 01:50, 15 July 2010 (EDT)

:Correct. And we only add officially-released information. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 06:51, 15 July 2010 (EDT)

::The simple reason is that this is an archive of things that "have happened" in the Transformers universes, until the movie is released it "hasn't happened yet". --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 08:49, 15 July 2010 (EDT)

:::And Barricade ''wasn't'' on set during ROTF's filming. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 13:18, 20 July 2010 (EDT)

"We saw Barricade on set during ROTF's filming. Guess who wasn't in the movie? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]]"

:actually, we did't. His altmode was seen 2 months before filming {{unsigned|24.253.95.14}}

I would have one little question: Are the call sheets trusted information?
--[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 7:41, 17 September 2010 (EDT)
:I would say 'no' because Bay could allow phony call sheets to be "leaked". Remember 'The Empire Strikes Back' which had a phony page in the script? I know it's not the same, but it's the same idea. - [[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 09:13, 17 September 2010 (EDT)
::Never heard about that thing with 'The Empire Strikes Back'. --[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 18:34, 17 September 2010 (EDT)
:::The fake page had Vader telling Luke that Obi-Wan killed Luke's dad. - [[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 14:24, 17 September 2010 (EDT)
:::: Obi-Wan kills Luke's Dad? D@mn it, SPOILERS, MAN! Those of us watching through the Clone Wars cartoon to get the story in order don't want to know what's coming up! -ZacWilliam (not signed in and unable to resist.)

== Carly? ==
do this Count has offical Confirmation or not? http://www.shootfortheedit.com/forum/showthread.php?7552-Every-Little-Girl-Should-Be-Told-That-She-s-Pretty-Even-if-She-s-Not.&p=143091#post143091
:I'm so baffled by this I forgot the overblown "NO" reaction I had planned. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 13:20, 20 July 2010 (EDT)
::[http://www.shootfortheedit.com/forum/showthread.php?7566-Transformers-3-Chicago-Set-Photos I guess it's official now.] Also, his news post on Bay's site apparently reveals [https://michaelbay.com/newsblog/files/6e7f5a008e98162953abdfdfca1d32e8-612.php the name of the Ferrari Autobot]. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:36, 20 July 2010 (EDT)
:::Darn, I was pulling for a Bewitched-esque "No, Mikaela's always looked like this". --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:48, 20 July 2010 (EDT)
::::He edited the front page news. Now it says the Ferrari is parked on Rush Street. That's a weird screw up... --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:19, 20 July 2010 (EDT)

== Optimus' Trailer ==

There have been multiple pictures and videos of a semi truck with flames driving a trailer which heavily resembles [[Optimus]]' trailer from G1. The truck is a different truck than the two previous films which does support his redesign. Should we mention it?
:What were the sources of those pictures? Were they from Paramount? From mainstream news programs? From some guy hiding in the bushes and taking pictures with his cell phone? ONLY officially released information may go on this page. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:53, 22 July 2010 (EDT)

==Soundwave's Return==
Is it safe to put Soundwave on the character list since his head was seen on set?
:As the page says, repeatedly and in big letters, SET LEAKS DO NOT COUNT.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 00:49, 24 July 2010 (EDT)
::Is there any way that the Edit button could be rerouted to a page that only reads (and perhaps states audiably) "If your info is from a set leak, don't post it here!"? I know that's virtually impossible, but I (and I'm certain quite a number of those here) are frustrated that these scoop hounds don't seem to understand what "officially released information" is. - [[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 08:24, 24 July 2010 (EDT)
:::The page itself is semi-protected, which already keeps our signal-to-noise pretty good.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 13:24, 24 July 2010 (EDT)

== Rush ==
Where's Rush? He's official, in the movie and confirmed. He should be on the character list
--[[Special:Contributions/92.238.181.196|92.238.181.196]] 13:02, 24 July 2010 (EDT)
:Source? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:17, 24 July 2010 (EDT)
::I haven't seen Geddy Lee in any of these pictures. - [[User:RolonBolon|RolonBolon]] 13:19, 24 July 2010 (EDT)

Who's Geddy Lee? And it DID say Rush was the red ferrari but they must have changed it. That does not make it wrong. You cant just put a character in and remove it when it was confirmed before. Rush seems accurate and its clear they could not miss out the "st" the first time round. Its pure logic. --[[Special:Contributions/92.238.181.196|92.238.181.196]] 13:31, 24 July 2010 (EDT)
:Now it says that the Ferrari is parked on Rush Street. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 13:31, 24 July 2010 (EDT)
::That is NOT logic. It's quite possible that a picture could have been labeled Rush (no "St") as an indication of location. This note could easily have been misinterpreted by someone who didn't know the location as a name and posted. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:34, 24 July 2010 (EDT)

You are perhaps aware of Michael Bay's admission that he likes to spread misinformation right up to the day his movies are released?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 13:38, 24 July 2010 (EDT)

OK so lots of people were mislead as well. And who is Geddy Lee and what has he got to do with the movie? --[[Special:Contributions/92.238.181.196|92.238.181.196]] 13:45, 24 July 2010 (EDT)
:Geddy Lee is the lead singer for the rock band Rush. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 13:45, 24 July 2010 (EDT)
::If Rush is in this movie, I will line up for tickets. "Closer to the heart!" -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 16:41, 24 July 2010 (EDT)

== Page edit ==

I was correcting a grammar error when the human list (and Sam Witwicky) were deleted, moving everyone else to the Decepticons. Can anyone help? -- [[User:Shackwave123|Shackwave123]] 9:33, 28 July 2010 (EDT)
:If </ref> is forgotten from a footnote, it happens. Same thing happened to me once, when I got a permission to edit this page. --[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 10:00, 6 August 2010 (EDT)

== Jolt ==

I know this isn't confirmed but look at this. [http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-movie-discussion/310669-tf3-info-regarding-jolt-confirmed-i-am-100-certain-details-inside.html [1]] But it may be helpful in the future! [[User:Erimal|Erimal]] 22:06, 29 July 2010 (EDT)
:We can't accept "insider source" info like that, nor is it truthfully helpful, and we don't care for info like that. As we said many, ''many'', '''many''' times, the '''''ONLY''''' sources of info that we'll accept is: A) directly from the press, B) directly from Michael or Steven themselves, C) directly from Nelson, Michael's webmaster. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 22:18, 29 July 2010 (EDT)
::I'm afraid Jolt won't return. Check this: http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-movie-just-movie-31/nelson---no-jolt-for-transformers-3-170344/ --[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 10:37, 3 August 2010 (EDT)

== Nelson - Michael Bay's webmaster ==

How do we classify Nelson's comments? Like he posts official news and filmed official hype videos of the Chicago set, and does things with (presumably) Michael Bay's authorisation, but he's also been linking youtube videos by people (unofficially) filming the Chicago set on the front page of Bay's website, videos that reveal things that have not yet been "officially" revealed. So we pick and choose what he says and does based upon what we think is "official" and what is merely him drumming up hype for the movie? I ask because he revealed what the three Nascars (seen in both youtube videos, unofficial set photos AND Nelson's own official set visit video) are referred to as on set at TFW2005, but I don't know how to classify that comment. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 23:52, 30 July 2010 (EDT)
:I'm inclined to go with Nelson's confirmations/denials on the boards, but videos we should hold off since we don't have context to go with it. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 00:05, 31 July 2010 (EDT)
::Yeah, I think if Nelson confirms stuff, we should take that as official word. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 04:05, 31 July 2010 (EDT)
:::http://transformerslive.blogspot.com/2010/08/new-autobot-arrives-and-more-boom.html Nelson confirmed this new Autobot vehicle. It's a fire truck, but it's not Inferno or Hot Spot. --[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 09:11, 3 August 2010 (EDT)

== The Wreckers? ==

Should we include this? ([http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/UnForgottenHero/news/?a=20901]) --[[User:HeyTFWiki|HeyTFWiki]] 03:43, 31 July 2010 (EDT)
:I am asking that very question above your edit. Also, please sign off on your comments. It's the signature-looking button, or just type four of these <nowiki>~</nowiki> --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:57, 31 July 2010 (EDT)
::I'd feel better about including the Wreckers story if they included a link to the forum post in question in their news story. I can't even find a link to the forums on that site! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 04:00, 31 July 2010 (EDT)
:::I found the post, unfortunately the staffer at TFW who reported it is rather inexperienced and gets overexcited, so he forgot to link to the post. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:06, 31 July 2010 (EDT)
::::I'm just sayin'. --[[User:HeyTFWiki|HeyTFWiki]] 04:14, 31 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::Just clarified my above statement. I added the Wreckers thing to the page a few odd minutes ago :) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:46, 31 July 2010 (EDT)
::::::Hope I contributed a big thing :D. By the way, [[User:FFN|FFN]] are you the only one who can edit Transformers 3 --[[User:HeyTFWiki|HeyTFWiki]] 05:00, 31 July 2010 (EDT)

== Einstein Bot not "Q" ==
Nelson confirmed that the "Q" thing was not true information and commented that he didn't know where the confirmation came from. It should probably be taken down, as "Q" seems to merely be a hint as to who it is, but not a potential name. Link is [http://www.shootfortheedit.com/forum/showthread.php?7595-Ok-has-the-bot-list-got-crazy-or-what!/page3 here]. --[[User:Faded-Myth|Faded-Myth]] 21:01, 2 August 2010 (EDT)
:Thanks. I am vindicated of my belief of that NIBMRatchet guy's overeager incompetence. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 23:18, 2 August 2010 (EDT)
http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-movie-just-movie-31/more-transformers-3-spoilers-and-rumors-from-detroit-170570/ Though I read this article, I can't say that Wheeljack's name should be added onto cast list of the film. Word from extra casted people from Detroit filming can't be fully trusted. Even extra casted actors can have misinformation. --[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 18:34, 14 September 2010 (EDT)
:We're not until Nelson, Bay himself, Spielberg himself, or Murphy says otherwise. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 14:39, 14 September 2010 (EDT)
::To CAJH - What part of "We do not care about set leaks. Do not tell us who you saw on the set. Unless you can source it in an official press release or reputable news source, we do not care. Please stop telling us who you saw in set photography." do you not understand? NONE of the various things you have brought here have been official information. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 18:51, 14 September 2010 (EDT)
:::I told you all that information from the previous link can't be fully trusted. Are you saying that because of that, I still shouldn't have even add it here? --[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 8:38, 15 September 2010 (EDT)
:::And besides, this discussion page is to talk about the movie, not for collecting official information. So, there's no reason I would have done anything wrong. --[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 8:41, 15 September 2010 (EDT)
::::Wrong. This is not a chat room or a message board. These talk pages are for discussions relevant to the Wiki and its articles. Just discussing movie speculation is not for here. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 02:13, 15 September 2010 (EDT)
:::Wait a second, you think that even Nelson's words about Jolt's not returning to film and Wheelie's return can't be trusted? "NONE of the various things you have brought here have been official information." I know this page must have an official information revealed. An information that is revealed by any member of the filming crew or producers of the movie. You have no proofs that webmaster's words contain nothing but rumors. That extra casting member who told about Wheeljack or Shockwave can't be fully trusted, but anything else I've added here is not misinformation. Well, anything I've added after I read the rules of these pages.--[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 9:07, 15 September 2010 (EDT)
::::All we're saying is that you didn't need to bring it up because we know not to add Wheeljack's name unless otherwise. As for webmasters, both Nelson and Don work WITH Michael directly, so we trust them a lot more than set reports from extras or people working on the set. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 02:31, 15 September 2010 (EDT)
:::::I wasn't saying it should be added here. But if you say that only links with information that will be necessary are permitted here, then I'll obey.--[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 10:05, 15 September 2010 (EDT)
:::::Hey hey, I forgot one thing. That Mercedes car hasn't evem been seen in Detroit. So how could anyone know that the Wheeljack really meant that Mercedes? By no means. I can't believe I didn't write it earlier. --[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 14:49, 15 September 2010 (EDT)

==Wheelie==
Wheelie returns. Confirmed by Nelson. http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-movie-just-movie-31/wheelies-back-in-transformers-3-170366/
The sam elink confirms also that the Jeep seen in Chicago is not in movie as we thought. --[[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 8:42, 6 August 2010 (EDT)
:Who is "nelson"? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 09:32, 15 September 2010 (EDT)
::The answer is [[Talk:The Dark of the Moon (film)#Nelson_-_Michael_Bay.27s_webmaster|on this very page]]. But if you don't want to click, Nelson is Michael Bay's webmaster, and here his information is considered an official source. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 09:40, 15 September 2010 (EDT)

==Inferno as new Autobot ?==
yes as new Autobot ::[http://skitch.com/wedenesday/djnmu/tf3-poster-shot-a I can do that.]
:I followed the link and saw this: "This object is not available! Perhaps you should contact wedenesday for more information?". Sorry, ace, but no dice. Everybody with me: "Wait for ''official'' (please denote the "'''official'''" part) news releases about the movie." In other words, if Michael Bay's website or the Associated Press didn't say it, it doesn't go here. - [[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 22:20, 7 August 2010 (EDT)
::If you mean that firetruck Autobot, you better know this. Nelson told that it's not Inferno. You wanna watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWCkIggT8yk Don't take it as official information, but this will sound very crazy. - [[User:CAJH|CAJH]] 13:52, 29 August 2010 (EDT)

==MEGATRON==
Megatron is coming back for Transformers 3 so why does his name keep getting removed from the cast his face has being seen pinned up in Chicago. Check out the Link. http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-movie-just-movie-31/megatron-returns-for-transformers-3-170294/ --{{unsigned|Plo Koon 1}} 14:58, 25 August 2010

:READ THE NOTICE AT THE TOP OF THIS PAGE. We do not accept ANY info that was not released by Bay, his webmaster, Hasbro, or Paramount. We take officially released info only and these pictures ARE NOT. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 15:02, 25 August 2010 (EDT)
::And there's always the chance of them changing things mid-shooting. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 15:15, 25 August 2010 (EDT)
:::Plus, may I add that it could be a stand-in for a new baddie? It's cheaper to use a leftover prop than make a new cardboard face. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the guy who slapped that face on the pole didn't even know who it was. It's ''likely'' Megs will be back, but wait for '''''official''''' news. - [[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 16:49, 25 August 2010 (EDT)
::::It is now official. Check out this link. Also, the original wikipedia.org states that he will be in it, and since we are a wiki site, shouldn't we have that info too?[[Special:Contributions/166.109.0.45|166.109.0.45]] 11:38, 21 December 2010 (EST)
::::: NO IT IS NOT. NOT A HARD CONCEPT. If it's not from BAY or His Webmaster or Paramount itself released for the public then it's NOT OFFICIAL. Also, no we are not associated with wikipedia and could care less what they put on their site. Sigh. --[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 11:46, 21 December 2010 (EST)
::::::I understand that it must be official, and it cannot be some random blogger. However, if I may say tfw2005.com is a website trusted by hasbro. But why shouldn't we have it if wikipedia.org has it. Shouldn't we have more information then them about Tranformers. And i would say since wikipedia.org is much stricter, I would guess they have a good reason for putting it there, if you don't mind explaining that. And i'd hate to be rude, but why can't we have information from the set on our site? If the information is out, why can't we have it? Also, other websites state that people like Soundwave and Starscream will also be in the film, so why are we the only site that just says Shockwave is in it so far. I am not trying to be rude here.[[Special:Contributions/166.109.0.45|166.109.0.45]] 12:03, 22 December 2010 (EST)
:::::::You need to understand that the photos that have allowed TFW2005 to make this news post are of a stolen toy. We do not add anything to the wiki based on "leaked, stolen or snuck" material. ''We'' actually respect Hasbro's wishes when it comes to the flow of information, which other sites do not. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 12:21, 22 December 2010 (EST)
::::::::Well on various video featurettes, Hasbro does say that they respect these sites and listen to them. They also respected hasbro after they said to remove the photos and they are not posting them up again until Hasbro says they can. I can understand the different policies, so to respond to that comment, I think we can conclude that Tfw2005.com and this site both respect hasbro, just in different ways. I am confused that wikipedia.org itself does not respect Hasbro, and states that Megatron is in the film, and uses seibertron.com as a reference. Could I get an explanation please?[[Special:Contributions/166.109.0.45|166.109.0.45]] 13:52, 22 December 2010 (EST)
:::::::::You would have to ask wikipedia.org. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 14:32, 22 December 2010 (EST)
::::::Look, what we're after here is not to get the information in as fast as possible. What we want is ''accurate'', official information that has been released by Hasbro. Is that how Megatron's toy will look? Probably. Is he going to be in the movie? I'd be surprised if he wasn't. Things are subject to change, and we want the information to be accurate and precise. An encyclopedia that is inaccurate is useless, and we want to be accurate. So just be patient. It will be put in eventually. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 14:56, 22 December 2010 (EST)

== Decepticons ==

Since when were Megatron, Starscream, and Soundwave confirmed? I've seen them being added a ton of times but I can't find any official source that confirms it. Should those edits be undone or did I just miss something big? --[[User:Kirby|Kirby]] 11:43, 3 September 2010 (EDT)
:Those names were added by a relatively inexperienced editor, I have removed them. Unless he/she can show reliable sources for their being in the movie (not just "but OF COURSE they'll be back... It's Megatron, Starscream, and Soundwave!") they should not be listed. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:03, 3 September 2010 (EDT)
:Yeah, I thought so. I just thought that putting it on the talk page would be better than going right up and reverting it. I've noticed that a lot of my edits are just removing stuff --[[User:Kirby|Kirby]] 12:06, 3 September 2010 (EDT)
:I don't think that Hasbro can not put Megatron, Starscream and Soundwave in the new movie, the popularity of the transformers would drop.
::You wouldn't think that Hasbro would kill off most of the memorable G1 cast either, but they did that too. What I'm getting at is that stranger things have happened. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 04:04, 10 November 2010 (EST)

== TITLE ==

[http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/transformers-3-title-revealed-the-dark-of-the-moon/19947/ Looks like we've got a title.]

--[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 09:35, 6 October 2010 (EDT)
:Can I just go on record that that is a crappy name? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 09:42, 6 October 2010 (EDT)
::I agree with you, but it comes with many joke opportunities.
::I just.....haven't figured out what they are yet. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 09:53, 6 October 2010 (EDT)
:::All I can think of is the Alabama song "Fire In The Night". --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 09:57, 6 October 2010 (EDT)
::::The ''Dark'' of the moon? Does that mean the movie is going to be just another one of those crappy conspiracy theories saying the US didn't get to the moon first? Does this mean this is hardly going to be a movie about Transformers? This seems pretty likely. Also, that name is just borderline teen novel. Hopefully they'll change everything at the last minute into something relatively better like they did before. --[[User:LokitheGrammarNazi|LokitheGrammarNazi]] 09:59, 6 October 2010 (EDT)
:::::Here are some jokes we could use.
:::::"Dark Side of the Moon was taken."
:::::"Is it a Twilight crossover?"
:::::(Thank you Seibertron forum posters!) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:01, 6 October 2010 (EDT)
::::::I hadn't even thought about Twilight until Loki said teen novel. Now, I can't get the word "Vampformers" out of my head. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 10:08, 6 October 2010 (EDT)
:::::::Does this mean the main pic has to be that shot of John Turturro's as from ROTF?[[User:Riddlerj|Riddlerj]] 10:22, 6 October 2010 (EDT)
::::::::No and shame on you for even thinking it. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:27, 6 October 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::One thing I really like from the first 3 movies (86,07,09) wiki articles are the running joke used throughout. Star Wars, the 86 movie, and Empire Strikes Back. I would have thought we would use nothing but Return of the Jedi quotes here, but with this new title part of me thinks it would be great to use nothing but lyrics off the Dark Side of the Moon album. --[[User:Bluestreak7|Bluestreak7]] 12:36, 6 October 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::We picked Star Wars and Empire for their respective films because the TF creative teams in those years specifically compared their products to those films--it was us making a joke out of their marketing idea. Though having captions about ROTJ would obviously "complete the set," I'm kind of against us making jokes out of ''our own traditions'' instead of the traditions of the franchise creators. It would seem like we're just jerking off. So I'd actually prefer Pink Floyd too. Of course, given that there's still a year for someone at Paramount to make a comparison between the respective 3rd films, the point may be moot. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 14:02, 6 October 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::Actually, using Pink Floyd quotes here would preserve and extend the pattern we have going. 1st Movie/Star Wars Universe quotes, 2nd Movie/Non-SW quotes, 3rd Movie/SW Universe quotes, 4th Movie/Non-SW quotes. Remember that 1st - 4th is in real world terms, ignoring the fact that the 1st movie was not part of the same universe as the current trilogy. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 14:10, 6 October 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::Agreed. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:29, 6 October 2010 (EDT)

Should we also put in a note that "dark of the moon" is real phrase and not completely made up? --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 15:35, 6 October 2010 (EDT)

Ahem. IT WAS THE DARK OF THE MOON ON THE SIXTH OF JUNE WITH A KENWORTH HAULIN' LOGS/ CABOVER PETE WITH A REEFER ON AND A JIMMY HAULIN HOGS/ WE WAS HEADED FOR BEAR ON I-1-OH ABOUT A MILE OUTTA SHAKEY TOWN/ I SAID "PIG PEN THIS HERE'S THE RUBBER DUCK, WE'RE ABOUT TO PUT THE HAMMER DOWN." -hx at work, this is all the caption you need.
:ARGH! I can't believe I forgot that! I can just see the "bout to put the hammer down" part as an Optimus Prime caption ("Convoy", don't you know. :)). --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 17:49, 6 October 2010 (EDT)
::I agree with this comment. Also, now we have a title, is it time to add it to the left-hand navigation menu? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:16, 6 October 2010 (EDT)
:::Save it for the Japanese release info. "Ironically enough, not a great big Convoy rockin' through the night." [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 19:30, 7 October 2010 (EDT)
I don't see any Amazon listings anymore, but the [http://www.transformersmovie.com Transformers movie website] is called "Transformers: Dark of the Moon". (Don't look at the logo, look at the title of the website in the web browser.) Should we lose the "the"? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:43, 29 October 2010 (EDT)
:At the same time, the domain they registered is "transformersthedarkofthemoonmovie.com", which has the leading "The" in it. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 17:00, 29 October 2010 (EDT)
::"transformersdarkofthemoonmovie.com" is also registered by the same party. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 17:03, 29 October 2010 (EDT)
:::Why would they register it with the "The" if "The" isn't in the title? Whereas I can see why they'd also register it without, because people might accidentally leave it out when typing the url (and also for brand protection). --[[User:Abates|abates]] 17:57, 29 October 2010 (EDT)
::::Similar reasons apply for registering the name with a superfluous "the". "The dark of the moon" is a preexisting term, people might easily insert it by mistake. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 20:08, 29 October 2010 (EDT)
:::::IDK, the title of a web page just doesn't seem like enough to me to move the page. The titles on Amazon all had "The" in them, which might have been added mistakenly by whoever added them there, or might not have been. I suspect we should wait for some sort of official unveiling, because if we move the page now, we may well just be moving it back later. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 22:13, 29 October 2010 (EDT)
::::::According to the teaser trailer, at least in Latin America, the international title of the movie is '''Transformers 3''' (THANK GOD). Should we put it on the article?-[[User:ACIDSTORM92|ACIDSTORM92]] 03:28, 1 January 2011 (EST)

== Uh, Walky.... ==

How does "www.transformersdarksideofthemoon.com." confirm that "The Dark of the Moon" is the title? Or did you put in the "side" in that URL by mistake? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:56, 6 October 2010 (EDT)
: Yeah. Mistake. Durrr. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:02, 6 October 2010 (EDT)
:: Fixed. I expect this slip-up to happen only 30,000 more times. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:03, 6 October 2010 (EDT)
:::Yeah, mainly I was asking on the off chance that the other things we've found had accidentally left out the "side". --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:07, 6 October 2010 (EDT)

== Accident ==

Does last month's stunt accident where an extra got critically injured belong on this page, and if yes, where?--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 14:22, 7 October 2010 (EDT)
:I thought the top of this page said that the wiki does not care about news on the set. --[[User:LokitheGrammarNazi|LokitheGrammarNazi]] 14:46, 7 October 2010 (EDT)
::This is '''obviously''' not the kind of news the top of the page is talking about. Yes, the accident and lawsuit should be addressed on the page for the movie. Where, I dunno. Probably its own section. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:58, 7 October 2010 (EDT)
:::Maybe "Production", if it ever gets made. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 16:30, 7 October 2010 (EDT)

== Disambig? ==

What are we going to use as the disambiguation suffix for this movie? I used (TDOTM) for the [[Carly (TDOTM)|Carly]] artilce I created, but I could see just (DOTM) instead, or perhaps something from out of left field -- [[User:G1MarvelBlaster|G1MarvelBlaster]] 23:04, 7 October 2010 (EDT)
:(TDOTM) would be the most consistent. But (TF3) would be cool. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 23:22, 7 October 2010 (EDT)
::The only other franchise I can find with an initial "the" is [[The Headmasters]], which has the disambiguation suffix (Headmasters). Going by that, I would say (DOTM). --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 09:20, 8 October 2010 (EDT)
:::Considering Hasbro applied for the trademark "Dark of the Moon" without "the", I'm favoring (DOTM) too.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 08:05, 13 October 2010 (EDT)
::::(TDOTM) is a horrible disambig. I prefer (DOTM). --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 08:11, 13 October 2010 (EDT)

== The Superfund Armored Truck as Sixshot and Rosenbaurer as Inferno ==

November-21=Michael Bay confirms the Superfund Armored Truck as Sixshot.
:Hi. Cite a source. Sign your posts. Thank you. Goodbye. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 08:22, 21 November 2010 (EST)

== Should we add Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin? ==

Well, should we?

-ThiAthEhn
: And [[Walter Cronkite]]. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:56, 10 December 2010 (EST)

::Well, the question is, will they actually be ''in'' the film? This teaser feels very much like the teaser for the first movie, in that we may see only a little, or possibly even none, of the actual content of it in the film. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 11:57, 10 December 2010 (EST)

:::And we don't know if (though unlikely) they are main cast. And save their page for another day. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 12:00, 10 December 2010 (EST)
::::I dunno, I think all promotional stuff still counts as "fiction" under our mandate. While they shouldn't be on the main cast list, I wouldn't be opposed to making articles on them and making some mention of them on the article. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 14:16, 10 December 2010 (EST)
:::::And in any case, we already have a [[Neil Armstrong]] page, per [[Ghosts of Yesterday]]. So I'll ask my question here: how much do we want to put into that article? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 14:42, 10 December 2010 (EST)
::::::I'm tired of seeing useless perpetually incomplete pages for trivial as fuck foil characters that usually were only ''mentioned'' in the movie or even movie novelization in question and have no real story signifigance at all. I respectfully say nay to more character pages like this and I would recommend deleting such pages that are already created, such as the Mohammud page. --[[User:LokitheGrammarNazi|LokitheGrammarNazi]] 11:14, 14 December 2010 (EST)
::::::::Then that's really too friggin' bad, because ''that's what this wiki is for.'' --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:28, 14 December 2010 (EST)
:::::::::You really want your wiki to go to hell, to run rampant with the constant mindless page creations of anonymous IP adresses? You made one of the qualifications to delete a page "We are not a dictonary," but now you want to contradict yourself. --[[User:LokitheGrammarNazi|LokitheGrammarNazi]] 11:32, 14 December 2010 (EST)
::::::::::Uh, we've been making pages like this since the very beginning of the wiki back in 2006. At no point has this site ever succumbed to your insane scenario. So pardon me if my eyes roll so hard they pop out of my skull. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:36, 14 December 2010 (EST)
:::::::::::What you said officially makes it okay to make pages like the pages made by anons from the start, so now you have put yourself in the situation where now a whole lot of anons who look around without editing will get that idea and tell all their friends about it and soon you have too many pages for Detour to put the speedy template on. Sure, in the past this has never happened, but now there is the possibility. --[[User:LokitheGrammarNazi|LokitheGrammarNazi]] 11:39, 14 December 2010 (EST)
::::::::::::Now that we're going to continue doing the exact same thing we've been doing for the past four years, suddenly it's all going to be different now and ruin us. Got it. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:41, 14 December 2010 (EST)
:::::::::::::It's not that you've been doing the same thing all along, it's now you've said that doing what has been described now is alright and acceptable, and you seem to be ignoring/avoiding that. Besides, of course the consequences are not going to affect you immediately, so you shouldn't just assume that if the ramifications aren't immediate then there aren't any at all. Your 16-year-old level of sarcasm and quickness to attempt to avoid a situation is what makes people not like you. --[[User:LokitheGrammarNazi|LokitheGrammarNazi]] 11:47, 14 December 2010 (EST)
::::::::::::::I'm not ignoring anything, because I shouldn't have to distinguish for you the differences between making a page for a guy featured heavily in a trailer for a blockbuster Transformers film and between making a page for "floor." The difference seems to be obvious to everyone else. Do you have any other recourse to people disagreeing with you that isn't calling them an X-year-old? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:58, 14 December 2010 (EST)
:::::::::::::::The reason I used the X-year-old argument is because that is what I usually only see here that warrants a recourse from me, what with the "Um, yes it does" and "pardon me if my eyes roll so hard they pop out of my skull" statements. I understand now that you have from the start always had a staff that can make the distinction between what is too little information and what isn't and make decisions based on that. I don't think that most people know what "too little information" is (including myself), so maybe that could be something you could put into the FAQ of the wiki for anons that want to be good editors but aren't and so people like me don't go anally retentive apeshit and get in heated arguments with the wiki's administrator. --[[User:LokitheGrammarNazi|LokitheGrammarNazi]] 12:10, 14 December 2010 (EST)
::::::::::::::::When the sole basis of your argument is "tons of anons will make bad pages", it's kind of hard to do anything but roll one's eyes at it. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 12:14, 14 December 2010 (EST)
::::::::::::::Anons will make useless pages regardless of policies. I truly doubt making a page about Buzz Aldrin is suddenly going to open the floodgates for pages about grass, the birds, the bees, the peanut butter jelly time banana and Zartan's male pattern baldness. Your apocalypse scenario is ridiculous to say the least. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 12:01, 14 December 2010 (EST)
:::::::They exist in the Transformers universe. Why shouldn't we have pages for them? --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 11:17, 14 December 2010 (EST)
::::::::Saying something like, "What would Jesus do?" is not making them in-universe. Besides, the pages always stay shitty and are just bytes of worthless space-taking crap. What if the wiki made a whole page for every single obscure character that happened to be seen in a passing glance of the camera? The whole wiki would be have millions of pages of crap that nobody cares about. Besides, if somebody wanted to read about Buzz aldrin, they could just go to wikipedia. --[[User:LokitheGrammarNazi|LokitheGrammarNazi]] 11:21, 14 December 2010 (EST)
:::::::::Um, yes it does. If someone mentions Jesus in Transformers, that means that Jesus is in the Transformers universe? That'd be like if there was a standalone story where someone mentions how Bumblebee is a great scout, but Bumblebee doesn't appear otherwise. Does that mean Bumblebee doesn't exist? And there's a difference between making an article for someone who has no name, personality, or role, and making an article for someone who has a name and has a role hinted at. (We wouldn't make an article for a generic with no dialogue who's just there in the background, but we WOULD make an article for Bumblebee since he was named and we know that he's a scout.) And what if someone was curious about what Buzz Aldrin did in the Transformers world? Wikipedia wouldn't have that. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 11:24, 14 December 2010 (EST)
::::::::::You know very fucking well what I am talking about, don't act like a ten-year-old. I do not mean that important characters fiction wise (as in appearing in more than one piece of fiction in one universe) shouldn't have pages, they do have pages that account what they are important in. I mean not have pages about characters like the [[Muhammad]] or [[Jesus]] page that have no significance whatsoever in any piece of fiction. If they were more important in another piece of fiction, then they could have pages. What I want is quality control that isn't headed by ten-year-olds or anal people. --[[User:LokitheGrammarNazi|LokitheGrammarNazi]] 11:29, 14 December 2010 (EST)
:::::::::::But they do have significance. A character mentions them and gives some details. Small significance, but they exist. When I said "standalone", I was referring to a whole new universe, where we don't know if Bumblebee exists or not. Then, someone confirms he exists, so we make a page for him. How am I acting like a ten-year-old?
:::::::::::(I WILL admit there's a line. Remember "History vid Megatron", anyone?) --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 11:34, 14 December 2010 (EST)
::::::::::::I think someone needs a timeout. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:02, 14 December 2010 (EST)
::::::::::::I remember "history vid Megatron"! According to a history video in Animated, he was a Decepticon during Animated's Great War. He looked like he commanded at least a platoon or something. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 12:19, 14 December 2010 (EST)

== Astronomical/Apollo Errors in Trailer ==

The trailer seems to suggest that, after it landed, Apollo 11 passed around to the dark side of the moon, or out of radio range, or something. This is, of course, nonsense, since the moon doesn't rotate with respect to Earth. If the trailer counts as canon, do we want to start an errors section for this? [[User:JW|JW]] 14:59, 13 December 2010 (EST)
:I think it is canon. That was strange. That looked like a real clip from Walter Cronkite, but maybe it was spliced together from different reports. Or maybe it was actually from before the landing when they were still in orbit. They sort of undercut the impact of the radio silence bit when mission control was still able to communicate with them. Maybe it was Sector 7 technology? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 15:19, 13 December 2010 (EST)
:: My reading of the trailer was that the astronauts WALKED to the far side of the moon once the feed was cut, explored, and then returned all within 21 minutes. Which is just as ridiculous. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:24, 13 December 2010 (EST)
:::You could be right. I was thrown off by one image where they were right next to the lander when they were "dark on the rock". That was probably out of sequence. Then again, being a movie trailer, the whole thing may be various images and dialog thrown together without regard to sequence. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 15:34, 13 December 2010 (EST)
::::But ''did'' they go to the dark side? I took "dark on the rock" to mean that communications were nil, that they were "in the dark", as it were. A figurative phrase, not literal. After all - you can SEE the Earth in the sky behind the spaceship! That couldn't be the dark side! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 16:02, 13 December 2010 (EST)
:::::Cronkite says "We now have had confirmation of loss of signal from Apollo 11. Apollo 11 is on the far side of the moon". - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:07, 13 December 2010 (EST)
::::::"Apollo 11" is the name of the mission, which involved the Columbia rocketship and the Lunar module that landed. The Columbia was in lunar orbit while Buzz and Neil were on the surface of the planet. The Columbia part of Apollo 11 definitely could have been on the far side of the moon, unless it, was, like, circling the exact circumference of the moon that we can see from Earth. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:13, 13 December 2010 (EST)
:::::Mind, the actual "dark side of the moon" where the Autobot spaceship had crashed sure had a lot of friggin' light about and plenty of crisp shadows. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:09, 13 December 2010 (EST)
::::::I tried to find out if the lander bounced signals off the ''Columbia'' but my Google skills failed me. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:18, 13 December 2010 (EST)
::::::I'm pretty sure the whole "Dark of the Moon", "dark on the rock" thing is figurative, to both describe the mystery on the Moon and NASA's real reason for traveling there, rather than literally "the ''Ark'' crashed on the dark side of the moon, and the dark side of the moon is a short walk from Tranquility Base." [http://science.howstuffworks.com/lunar-landing2.htm This article] suggests that ''Columbia'' served as the communications link between ''Eagle'' and Earth. Wish I could find a better article or source, but my google-fu is not great. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 06:50, 22 December 2010 (EST)
:::::::Even taking that as figurative, the trailer shows the Earth close to the horizon, when it should be nearly directly overhead. It also appears to move between shots only a short time apart. [[User:JW|JW]] 06:55, 22 December 2010 (EST)
::::::::Yea, it doesn't look like an actual error, except the movie makers wanted the Earth in every shot (I don't blame them). But the trailer doesn't make it clear that the ''Columbia'' is a communications link or anything like that so it is confusing. If it wasn't on the far side of the Moon, I don't see how they could have kept it secret. Anyone with a big enough telescope would be able to see it, I would think. At least observatories. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 11:19, 22 December 2010 (EST)

== MEGATRON IN DARK OF THE MOON ==
I have been looking around the internet about Transformers 3, and everywhere says that Megatron is returning for Transformers 3 as a Mack Titan Tanker Truck, I know that Michael Bay hasen't released any news yet on any Decepticons apart from Shockwave, but if Hasbro didn't release the pictures of the Megatron tanker truck toy, how the hell did they get on the internet, even Leader Class Ironhide pictures are around. Does anyone think that megatron should be added to the Decepticons?
Thanks Plo Koon 1
:It's most likely a stolen prototype from a factory, and NO, Megatron '''will not be added until Hasbro or Michael Bay or some other official source says he's in'''. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 12:42, 27 December 2010 (EST)
:Kindly go away and never return. This is all you do, come here once a movie is in production and either add stolen info, or rant on talk pages about how we should add stolen info, and frankly I am sick of it. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 15:13, 27 December 2010 (EST)
::Why don't you go look up some more information and get adding to the page instead of waiting for Michael Bay's and Hasbro's precious information. {{unsigned|Plo Koon 1}}
:::Because we only use OFFICIAL information. If it doesn't come from Hasbro, Bay or another official source, it ISN'T information as far as we are concerned.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 16:45, 27 December 2010 (EST)
:::Yeah, that's a great idea, let's post every single thing anonymous people post on Wikipedia, that's the best way to do research. Or post about stolen toys, thieves are always the best source of info. And then we'll have to take it down, because it turns out to be wrong. Or get crap from Hasbro, because it's stolen. That'll work out great. This Wiki is interested in getting things ''right'', not ''first''. The policy and the reasons for it have been explained quite clearly. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 16:53, 27 December 2010 (EST)

Praum

2011-01-01T14:32:16Z

-Blackout-: New page: :''Praun is a planet from the Animated continuity family.'' '''Praun''' is a planet. ==Fiction== ===The AllSpark Almanac, Volume II=== Praun was libe...

:''Praun is a planet from the [[Transformers Animated (franchise)|Animated]] continuity family.''
'''Praun''' is a planet.

==Fiction==
===The AllSpark Almanac, Volume II===
Praun was liberated as part of the [[Autobot]] planet-hopping campaign. {{storylink|Transformers Animated: The AllSpark Almanac II}}

[[Category:Animated]]
[[Category:Planets]]

Vespa

2011-01-01T14:31:40Z

-Blackout-: New page: :''Vespa is a planet from the Animated continuity family.'' '''Vespa''' is a planet. ==Fiction== ===The AllSpark Almanac, Volume II=== Vespa was libe...

:''Vespa is a planet from the [[Transformers Animated (franchise)|Animated]] continuity family.''
'''Vespa''' is a planet.

==Fiction==
===The AllSpark Almanac, Volume II===
Vespa was liberated as part of the [[Autobot]] planet-hopping campaign. {{storylink|Transformers Animated: The AllSpark Almanac II}}

[[Category:Animated]]
[[Category:Planets]]

Bk'n

2011-01-01T14:31:02Z

-Blackout-: New page: :''Bk'n is a planet from the Animated continuity family.'' '''Bk'n''' is a planet and part of the Autobot Commonwealth. ==Fiction== ===The AllSpa...

:''Bk'n is a planet from the [[Transformers Animated (franchise)|Animated]] continuity family.''
'''Bk'n''' is a planet and part of the [[Autobot Commonwealth]].

==Fiction==
===The AllSpark Almanac, Volume II===
At some point, Bk'n was the location of a mainframe (presumably belonging to the [[Decepticon]]s) which was destroyed by the [[Wrecker]]s.

Bk'n was later liberated as part of the [[Autobot]] planet-hopping campaign. {{storylink|Transformers Animated: The AllSpark Almanac II}}

[[Category:Animated]]
[[Category:Planets]]

Great War (Animated)

2011-01-01T14:25:47Z

-Blackout-: /* Major events of the Great War */

[[Image:Animatedhistoryvid.gif|thumb|right|250px|You weren't there, man. You don't know.]]
{{disambig2|the war in Animated|the war taking place during Generation 1|Great War (G1)}}
:''The Great War is a historical event from the [[Transformers Animated (franchise)|Animated]] [[continuity family]].''

In the distant past, [[Autobot|Autobots]] and [[Decepticon|Decepticons]] battled for supremacy of [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] in a conflict known as the '''Great War'''.

{{bigquote|Many millions of years ago, war raged between the forces of the heroic Autobots and the brutal Decepticons for control of the planet Cybertron. The Autobots battled valiantly in the name of honor—their courageous exploits bringing hope and glory to a beleaguered war-torn planet, and inspiring countless generations of robots yet to come on-line.|History vid|"[[Transform and Roll Out]]"}}
{{see|Transformers Animated timeline}}

==Fiction==
===''Animated'' cartoon===
[[Arcee (Animated)|Arcee]] served in the Great War as an Autobot intelligence officer. Also present was [[Ratchet (Animated)|Ratchet]], while [[Prowl (Animated)|Prowl]] actively avoided it. {{storylink|The Thrill of the Hunt}} {{storylink|Five Servos of Doom}}

The war was won for the Autobots when they sent the [[AllSpark]] through a [[Space bridge]] to a corner of the galaxy where it wouldn't be found. The Decepticons were defeated, but not destroyed. Millions of years later, Ratchet, then a veteran of the Great War, had a cynical attitude regarding history vids on the subject. He recounted how the war ended. {{storylink|Transform and Roll Out}}

==Major events of the Great War==
''Where available, dates are given in millions of [[stellar cycle]]s ago (MSCA).''

* 12 MSCA - [[Ultra Magnus (Animated)|Ultra Magnus]], recently appointed as Magnus, passes the [[Decepticon Registration Act]].
* 10 MSCA - Great War begins with the [[Great Uprising]].
* [[Software Wars (Animated)|Software Wars]].
* The creation of [[space bridge]]s halts the Decepticon advance.
* The Decepticons begin bombing [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]], demanding the [[AllSpark]] be turned over lest the bombing continue. The Autobots respond by hiding the AllSpark from both sides.
* [[Project Omega]] creates the first of the [[Omega Sentinel (Animated)|Omega Sentinel]]s.
* [[Silvart War]].
* [[Zeta Supreme]] and the [[Wrecker|Wreckers]] fight the [[Decepticon Heavy Brigade]]; [[Blackout (Animated)|Blackout]] is the only survivor.
* [[Ambush of Floron III]] destroys the Decepticon space fleet.
* The Autobots begin a major planet hopping campaign, which ends at the [[Battle for Omnitron]] with all disputed territory returned to Autobot control.
* Megatron sends his troops to Cybertron at sub-light velocity, avoiding detection, in what is known as the [[False Calm]].
* 2 MSCA - The [[Battle for Iacon]] results in Autobot victory, though at the cost of all surviving Omega Sentinels.
* 2 MSCA - The [[Tyrest Accord]] ends the war with the Decepticons accept exile in exchange for amnesty.

==Notes==
*There seem to be several parallels between World War II and The Great War, notably the Ambush of Floron III / the Battle of Midway and the Autobot's planet hopping campaign against the Decepticons and the Allies island hopping campaign against the Japanese.
*Footage from the ''[[The Transformers (cartoon)|Transformers]]'' episodes "[[War Dawn]]" and "[[More than Meets the Eye, Part 1]]" is used in the video detailing the events of the first Great War, millions of years prior. G1 character cameos include:

{{collist|3|
*[[Transport drone|Transport drones & warriors]]
*[[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]]
*[[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]]
*[[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]]
*[[Skywarp (G1)|Skywarp]]
*[[Thundercracker (G1)|Thundercracker]]
*[[Guardian robot|Guardian robots]]
*[[Dion]]
}}

{{note|Since the histories of ''Animated'' and ''Generation 1'' are mutually exclusive (one created by the AllSpark, the other by [[Quintesson]]s—and that's just for starters), one should not assume that these history clips imply that Animated is somehow a sequel to G1. Rather, the Animated archival footage depicts past Animated characters and events that, by pure happenstance, visually resemble some characters and events from G1.}}

[[Category:Animated]]
[[Category:Wars]]

Great War (Animated)

2011-01-01T14:25:18Z

-Blackout-: /* Notes */

[[Image:Animatedhistoryvid.gif|thumb|right|250px|You weren't there, man. You don't know.]]
{{disambig2|the war in Animated|the war taking place during Generation 1|Great War (G1)}}
:''The Great War is a historical event from the [[Transformers Animated (franchise)|Animated]] [[continuity family]].''

In the distant past, [[Autobot|Autobots]] and [[Decepticon|Decepticons]] battled for supremacy of [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] in a conflict known as the '''Great War'''.

{{bigquote|Many millions of years ago, war raged between the forces of the heroic Autobots and the brutal Decepticons for control of the planet Cybertron. The Autobots battled valiantly in the name of honor—their courageous exploits bringing hope and glory to a beleaguered war-torn planet, and inspiring countless generations of robots yet to come on-line.|History vid|"[[Transform and Roll Out]]"}}
{{see|Transformers Animated timeline}}

==Fiction==
===''Animated'' cartoon===
[[Arcee (Animated)|Arcee]] served in the Great War as an Autobot intelligence officer. Also present was [[Ratchet (Animated)|Ratchet]], while [[Prowl (Animated)|Prowl]] actively avoided it. {{storylink|The Thrill of the Hunt}} {{storylink|Five Servos of Doom}}

The war was won for the Autobots when they sent the [[AllSpark]] through a [[Space bridge]] to a corner of the galaxy where it wouldn't be found. The Decepticons were defeated, but not destroyed. Millions of years later, Ratchet, then a veteran of the Great War, had a cynical attitude regarding history vids on the subject. He recounted how the war ended. {{storylink|Transform and Roll Out}}

==Major events of the Great War==
''Where available, dates are given in millions of [[stellar cycle]]s ago (MSCA).''

* 12 MSCA - [[Ultra Magnus (Animated)|Ultra Magnus]], recently appointed as Magnus, passes the [[Decepticon Registration Act]].
* 10 MSCA - Great War begins with the [[Great Uprising]].
* [[Software Wars (Animated)|Software Wars]].
* The creation of [[space bridge]]s halts the Decepticon advance.
* The Decepticons begin bombing [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]], demanding the [[AllSpark]] be turned over lest the bombing continue. The Autobots respond by hiding the AllSpark from both sides.
* [[Project Omega]] creates the first of the [[Omega Sentinel (Animated)|Omega Sentinel]]s.
* [[Silvart War (Animated)|Silvart War]].
* [[Zeta Supreme]] and the [[Wrecker|Wreckers]] fight the [[Decepticon Heavy Brigade]]; [[Blackout (Animated)|Blackout]] is the only survivor.
* [[Ambush of Floron III]] destroys the Decepticon space fleet.
* The Autobots begin a major planet hopping campaign, which ends at the [[Battle for Omnitron]] with all disputed territory returned to Autobot control.
* Megatron sends his troops to Cybertron at sub-light velocity, avoiding detection, in what is known as the [[False Calm]].
* 2 MSCA - The [[Battle for Iacon]] results in Autobot victory, though at the cost of all surviving Omega Sentinels.
* 2 MSCA - The [[Tyrest Accord]] ends the war with the Decepticons accept exile in exchange for amnesty.

==Notes==
*There seem to be several parallels between World War II and The Great War, notably the Ambush of Floron III / the Battle of Midway and the Autobot's planet hopping campaign against the Decepticons and the Allies island hopping campaign against the Japanese.
*Footage from the ''[[The Transformers (cartoon)|Transformers]]'' episodes "[[War Dawn]]" and "[[More than Meets the Eye, Part 1]]" is used in the video detailing the events of the first Great War, millions of years prior. G1 character cameos include:

{{collist|3|
*[[Transport drone|Transport drones & warriors]]
*[[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]]
*[[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]]
*[[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]]
*[[Skywarp (G1)|Skywarp]]
*[[Thundercracker (G1)|Thundercracker]]
*[[Guardian robot|Guardian robots]]
*[[Dion]]
}}

{{note|Since the histories of ''Animated'' and ''Generation 1'' are mutually exclusive (one created by the AllSpark, the other by [[Quintesson]]s—and that's just for starters), one should not assume that these history clips imply that Animated is somehow a sequel to G1. Rather, the Animated archival footage depicts past Animated characters and events that, by pure happenstance, visually resemble some characters and events from G1.}}

[[Category:Animated]]
[[Category:Wars]]

Heliobot

2011-01-01T14:12:25Z

-Blackout-: New page: {{factions|autobot}} :''The Heliobots are an Autobot subgroup from the IDW portion of the Generation 1 continuity family.'' The '''Heliobots''' are ...

{{factions|autobot}}
:''The Heliobots are an [[Autobot]] subgroup from the [[IDW Generation 1 continuity|IDW]] portion of the [[Generation 1 continuity family]].''
The '''Heliobots''' are an Autobot unit. Presumably they transform into helicopters.

==Fiction==
===IDW Generation 1 continuity===
Along with [[Kup (G1)|Kup]] and [[Prowl (G1)|Prowl]], the Heliobots raided the [[Fatal Consequence]] and captured its captain, [[Violator]]. {{storylink|Bullets}}

[[Category:Generation 1]]
[[Category:Autobot subgroups]]

Fitor (SG)

2011-01-01T14:06:52Z

-Blackout-: New page: {{factions|sgAutobot}} {{noname-unconfirmed}} :''"Fitor" is an evil Autobot from the Shattered Glass continuity family.'' [[Image:ShatteredGoBots.gi...

{{factions|sgAutobot}}
{{noname-unconfirmed}}
:''"Fitor" is an evil [[Autobot]] from the [[Shattered Glass (franchise)|Shattered Glass]] [[continuity family]].''
[[Image:ShatteredGoBots.gif|right|300px|thumb|]]
'''"Fitor"''' is an Autobot.

==Fiction==
===Shattered Glass===
He was killed by [[Rampage (SG)|Rampage]] while trying to guard the [[Ark (SG)|Ark]]. {{storylink|Shattered Glass (issue)}}

[[Category:Shattered Glass Autobots]]

Leader-1 (SG)

2011-01-01T14:03:59Z

-Blackout-:

{{factions|sgAutobot}}
{{noname-unconfirmed}}
{{disambig3|Leader-1}}
:''"Leader-1" is an evil [[Autobot]] from the [[Shattered Glass (franchise)|Shattered Glass]] [[continuity family]].''
[[Image:ShatteredGoBots.gif|right|300px|thumb|]]
'''"Leader-1"''' is an Autobot.

==Fiction==
===Shattered Glass===
He was killed by [[Rampage (SG)|Rampage]] while trying to guard the [[Ark (SG)|Ark]]. {{storylink|Shattered Glass (issue)}}

==Notes==
*Leader-1's colour scheme is based on [[Cy-Kill (GoBots)|Cy-Kill]].

[[Category:Shattered Glass Autobots]]

Brimstone (Universe)

2011-01-01T14:00:27Z

-Blackout-: /* Timelines: Wings of Honor continuity */ couldn't remember what the story was called

{{factions|minicon|decepticon}}

{{disambig3|Brimstone}}

:''Brimstone is a [[Decepticon]] from the [[Wings of Honor]] portion of the [[Generation 1 (franchise)|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]]. His toy, however, was released under the [[Universe]] banner: Armada series.''

[[Image:Universe brimstone robot.jpg|right|300px|thumb|The mighty dragon Smog. {{sic}}]]
A member of the [[Decepticon]]-allied [[Ransack Team]], '''Brimstone''' is trained for toxic warfare from the air. ([[Acid Storm|Sounds a little familiar...]]) He's prodigiously strong, extremely durable, impressively fast and packs a surprising amount of firepower for a mini-con. Luckily for the [[Autobot]]s and their allies, he doesn't have the intelligence, courage, or skill to back any of those abilities up.<ref>Brimston's single-carded [[Tech Spec]]s.</ref>

==Fiction==
===Timelines: Wings of Honor continuity===
{{storylink|Flames of Yesterday}}

==Toys==
===Universe (2008)===
[[Image:Universe brimstone beast.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Puff the Tragic Dragon.]]
*'''Mini-Con 12-Pack''' (Multi-pack, 2008)
**''Series'': '''Armada Series'''

: Brimstone is a [[redeco]] of ''[[Classics (2006)|Classics]]'' [[Nightscream (Classics)| Nightscream]], in sludge green and off yellow, transforming into a winged dragon. He was originally available only as part of a K-Mart [[exclusive]] twelve-pack along with [[Backstop (Universe)|Backstop]], [[Blight (Universe)|Blight]], [[Bodyblock]], [[Boltflash]], [[Cloudraker (Universe)|Cloudraker]], [[Flatfoot]], [[Heavytread (Universe)|Heavytread]], [[Knockdown (Universe)|Knockdown]], [[Makeshift (Universe)|Makeshift]], [[Skyhammer (Universe)|Skyhammer]], and [[Suppressor]].

: This mold was also used to make [[Dragoyell]].

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2008/Decepticon/Brimstone/brimstone.htm More information on Brimstone at TFU.info]''

{{-}}{{anchor|Single}}
*'''Brimstone''' (Mini-Con, 2009)

: Brimstone was also sold on an individual card in the US, first through discount chains like Big Lots! and then as part of the holiday toy stock up at Shop and Stop and Family Dollar. This release is identical to the multi-pack version.

{{-}}{{anchor|Candy}}
*'''Brimstone''' (Mini-Con w/ candy, 2010)

: Brimstone, along with the other eleven Mini-Cons in his original case, was made available in the UK packaged in individual bags with "[[energon fizzy jellies]]" candies. This version of Brimstone however is cast and painted in brighter, more primary shades of green.

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:Armada Decepticons]]
[[Category:Armada Mini-Cons]]
[[Category:Kmart exclusives]]
[[Category:Toy-only characters]]
[[Category:Universe (2008)]]

Brimstone (Universe)

2011-01-01T13:57:26Z

-Blackout-:

{{factions|minicon|decepticon}}

{{disambig3|Brimstone}}

:''Brimstone is a [[Decepticon]] from the [[Wings of Honor]] portion of the [[Generation 1 (franchise)|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]]. His toy, however, was released under the [[Universe]] banner: Armada series.''

[[Image:Universe brimstone robot.jpg|right|300px|thumb|The mighty dragon Smog. {{sic}}]]
A member of the [[Decepticon]]-allied [[Ransack Team]], '''Brimstone''' is trained for toxic warfare from the air. ([[Acid Storm|Sounds a little familiar...]]) He's prodigiously strong, extremely durable, impressively fast and packs a surprising amount of firepower for a mini-con. Luckily for the [[Autobot]]s and their allies, he doesn't have the intelligence, courage, or skill to back any of those abilities up.<ref>Brimston's single-carded [[Tech Spec]]s.</ref>

==Fiction==
===Timelines: Wings of Honor continuity===

==Toys==
===Universe (2008)===
[[Image:Universe brimstone beast.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Puff the Tragic Dragon.]]
*'''Mini-Con 12-Pack''' (Multi-pack, 2008)
**''Series'': '''Armada Series'''

: Brimstone is a [[redeco]] of ''[[Classics (2006)|Classics]]'' [[Nightscream (Classics)| Nightscream]], in sludge green and off yellow, transforming into a winged dragon. He was originally available only as part of a K-Mart [[exclusive]] twelve-pack along with [[Backstop (Universe)|Backstop]], [[Blight (Universe)|Blight]], [[Bodyblock]], [[Boltflash]], [[Cloudraker (Universe)|Cloudraker]], [[Flatfoot]], [[Heavytread (Universe)|Heavytread]], [[Knockdown (Universe)|Knockdown]], [[Makeshift (Universe)|Makeshift]], [[Skyhammer (Universe)|Skyhammer]], and [[Suppressor]].

: This mold was also used to make [[Dragoyell]].

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2008/Decepticon/Brimstone/brimstone.htm More information on Brimstone at TFU.info]''

{{-}}{{anchor|Single}}
*'''Brimstone''' (Mini-Con, 2009)

: Brimstone was also sold on an individual card in the US, first through discount chains like Big Lots! and then as part of the holiday toy stock up at Shop and Stop and Family Dollar. This release is identical to the multi-pack version.

{{-}}{{anchor|Candy}}
*'''Brimstone''' (Mini-Con w/ candy, 2010)

: Brimstone, along with the other eleven Mini-Cons in his original case, was made available in the UK packaged in individual bags with "[[energon fizzy jellies]]" candies. This version of Brimstone however is cast and painted in brighter, more primary shades of green.

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:Armada Decepticons]]
[[Category:Armada Mini-Cons]]
[[Category:Kmart exclusives]]
[[Category:Toy-only characters]]
[[Category:Universe (2008)]]

Talk:Transformers Animated: The AllSpark Almanac

2010-12-30T09:57:53Z

-Blackout-: /* January FA? */

== Initial Ramblings ==
Book in hand... we have to disambig "Solon Kitakaze". This thing is awesome. :D - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 08:28, 19 August 2009 (EDT)
:OH MY GOD SERIOUSLY YOU GUYS the number of things that get obscure in-jokey referential names will implode the wiki it is awesome - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 08:39, 19 August 2009 (EDT)
::I wasn't gonna buy it, but now... And they reference Solon? Really? It warms my heart whenever its obvious that the official Transformers people are reading out wiki (especially when its articles I wrote!). --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 11:09, 19 August 2009 (EDT)
:::Solon's not the half of it!! Solitarium! Death's Head! The Twilight! [[Eddie Fairchild and Matt Conroy]] for pete's sake!! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 11:44, 19 August 2009 (EDT)
::::Damn. I'm going to have to get that book. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 13:30, 19 August 2009 (EDT)
:I AM MAKING SWEET SWEET LOVE TO THIS BOOK RIGHT NOW --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:15, 19 August 2009 (EDT)
::Well, when you guys are done sodomizing your copies, please make an article to accompany this talk page. I won't be able to get mine until next week. :( --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 14:34, 19 August 2009 (EDT)
Considering the book is by Sorenson, I'm not really surprised by any of this! -[[User:Mazenoise|Mazenoise]] 15:08, 19 August 2009 (EDT)
:::About one-third of the book's pages are ''bathed'' in Cybertronix. Given what they just came out and said in the book--what with SKY-BYTE AND EVERYTHING ELSE--I literally cannot even imagine what might fulfill their own standard of a "hidden Easter Egg" to be encrypted in another language. Aaiiiiieee. Also, I fucking call dibs on writing up the Visionaries reference. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 15:57, 19 August 2009 (EDT)
::::"The Swiss bank account number of the Bavarian Illuminati".
::::Is that just a joke on our part or did the writers go crazy? --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:59, 21 August 2009 (EDT)
:::::That was just a joke, presumably as a proxy until someone actually starts work on translations. Believe you me, I don't intend to run afoul of the Bavarian Illuminati ... again. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 15:06, 21 August 2009 (EDT)
::::::OK.....
:::::: *takes two drinks* --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:28, 21 August 2009 (EDT)
:::::::Ah'm doin' translations tonight! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 15:55, 21 August 2009 (EDT)
::::::::oh sweet jesus this is going to take forever - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 16:21, 21 August 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::For the love of.... the first bit of Cybertronix is the introduction from the instruction manual of the 1988 video game, "Wasteland". My head is fit to explode. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 16:46, 21 August 2009 (EDT)
::::::::::Sorenson, you've played Wasteland? I must worship you now. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:59, 21 August 2009 (EDT)

Does this book give the names of all the Starscream clones BTW? Considering the toy bio for Sunstorm at least has been a source of confusion.. -[[User:Mazenoise|Mazenoise]] 16:32, 21 August 2009 (EDT)
:Yes, all the clones are named now.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 16:33, 21 August 2009 (EDT)
::I will take your answer to mean, yes "Sunstorm" is in the Almanac and yes it identifies the show sycophant clone as "Sunstorm." - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 12:06, 31 August 2009 (EDT)

Can anyone tell me what the page count is for this thing? [[User:Warpspeed Hellscream|Screamer]] 16:47, 5 March 2010 (EST)
:It's, uh, right in the infobox on the article itself. 220 pages. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:56, 5 March 2010 (EST)

== Annotations ==

Got 'em done. [http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/digipedia/annotated_almanac.html check 'em out] on this rather unglamorous bit of webspace; if anyone's feeling very brave, they might try and add some of this to the article. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 18:40, 25 August 2009 (EDT)
:The DS9 pilot was just "Emissary", no "The" (originally shown, and presented on the DVD, as a single double-length episode). "The Emissary" was a '''TNG''' episode, stardate (per MΑ) 42901.3. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 18:59, 25 August 2009 (EDT)
::Also, note the "-" in front of the universal stream indicator for the writers. That means they're from a Shattered-Glass-like negative polarity universe! (I suspect Quadwal or whatever is the "real life" universe, which would work hand-in-hand with it being a "live performance" stream. Note that the authors are criminal versions of themselves, which again seems right considering the negative polarity.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:07, 25 August 2009 (EDT)
::Oh, and you got your Archa Nine and Archa Seven switched. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:08, 25 August 2009 (EDT)
:Typo: "...Irwin Spoon, a journalist who appeared in a '''three-party''' story in Marvel UK's..."; three-part, yes? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 19:09, 25 August 2009 (EDT)
:The Farscape monologue is from S1 & 2. It changed for S3, and again for S4. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 19:17, 25 August 2009 (EDT)
::The ''Dune'' fan in me screams at the misspellings in "He is the Kwizatz Haderach He is born of Caladan And will take the Gorn Jabbar" (it's supposed to be "Kwisatz" and "Gom"). Is this how they're spelled in the actual song? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 20:44, 25 August 2009 (EDT)

Digimon FAQ? Haha. But anyway: "An observation of the events of the first issue of the Animated comic by the trans-dimensional Vector Prime" Please tell me there's a picture of ''Animated'' Vector Prime. Also, "The team is thrashed by real-life football team West Ham at Tigatron Stadium" This might be a reference to West Ham apparently being Furman's favorite <s>soccer</s> football team. -[[User:Mazenoise|Mazenoise]] 03:45, 26 August 2009 (EDT)
: There is no art of Vector Prime. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 08:19, 26 August 2009 (EDT)
::I want this book so much right now. But I seriously need to try and ignore the stardate for "Babel": as much as I hate to say it, that episode still scares me. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 08:27, 26 August 2009 (EDT)
:Dude, McFeely? "Quadwal" as the universal stream is a joke. Quad=four. Wal=wall. "Fourth wall." It's the "real world." And it's not a negative universe, it's a negative number. 9/25/3760 ''BC''. That's the day calculated for Creation by adding up the ages of everyone in the Old Testament and subtracting back from the birth of Christ. (And it's a "live performance" because, uh, yeah.) FUCK ANYONE ELSE WHO POINTED THIS OUT ALREADY, IT'S FIVE AM AND I CAN'T SLEEP. [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 04:52, 2 September 2009 (EDT)
::I had already figured out that the date was probably referring to the day the universe came into existence (just forgot to actually mention that here like I'd meant to...), but I'd still been stumped on the "Quadwal" part. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 06:50, 2 September 2009 (EDT)
::You may consider my mind officially blown. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 07:34, 2 September 2009 (EDT)
Are we not dealing with pointing out picture stuff? Like on page 171 there's a kid dressed like Destro (and another one dressed like a Joe?). Are the guys on 184 at the bottom (1-5) supposed to be anybody? Just curious. --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 07:21, 2 September 2009 (EDT)
:::Similarly, is it worth mentioning anywhere in the article (or associated articles) about the flip-book animated Pocketbot at the bottom right of the right-hand pages?
:::Also, having gone over the book, I am amazed you could read the Cybertronian writing enough to figure out what it said, Chris. Maybe my eyes are just that bad now, but a lot of it seemed far too faint to distinguish, never mind the large portions obscured by overlaid art. Did you get layered files from which to study or something?--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 07:55, 2 September 2009 (EDT)
::::Naw, I just turned on every light in the room and squinted at it like the dickens. I translated what I could of the very first two passages and googled them to see if they were referring to something, so when I discovered that they were straight transcriptions of other sources, I circumvented the obscured-by-art problem by just started translating some of the large visible patches of text and googling it to see what it said. Would you believe that typing patches of the final narration of Robotech into google gets you no relevant hits? Seriously, the only relevant hit you get for "his homeworld and his past" is now ''my fricking annotations''. As to pictures, I was focusing on getting the references added ''for the book'', rather than pre-existing ones from the show and comics themselves, which is what those kids dressed as Joes would be (that said, I shamefully admit I didn't spot them - I've still not, ahem, ''read'' the book fully and properly, and probably would have mentioned them just because that's ''awesome''.) - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 07:59, 2 September 2009 (EDT)
:I used to work with Krista Kohlhausen. The likeness between the real person and the EMT character model is, well, perfect. There must be other people out there who look exactly like Derrick Wyatt's drawings too. Maybe he unwittingly creates them, like the narrator-author from "Stranger Than Fiction" who accidentally controls Will Farrell's life. Or maybe he ''wittingly'' creates them, like the author from "In the Mouth of Madness" who uses his simulacra people to summon Cthulhu. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 10:49, 2 September 2009 (EDT)

==References as a part of the article==
Now, I can hardly claim to be an unbiased party in all of this, but it seems to me that there is value in having a wikified list of references as a part of the article, rather than shunting people off-site to a web page that may or may not be there in perpetuity. I can't think of another instance of us saying that we shouldn't be codifying legitimate information because 'there is a large amount of it.' At worst we put that information in a sort of side-page, like we do with [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity]] and whatnot. Also, the hyperlinked version allows one to more quickly navigate around, rather than having to laboriously type in each search term. Finally, I won't lie, I'm tickled pink to see a 25K list of just the Transformers references in this book.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 21:44, 1 September 2009 (EDT)
:I agree, plus there should also be a list of who got profiles like in [[Transformers Universe (Marvel comic)|other]] [[More Than Meets The Eye (G1)|books]]. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 22:09, 1 September 2009 (EDT)
::aren't references present in other stuff like Divide and Conqure (Real World and Transformers references both) and Nemesis Part 2 and RID episodes and linkage and so on?{{unsigned|71.148.38.190}}
:::Yeah, as is this article isn't nearly as informative or complete as many of it's counterparts. I DO understand the impulse not to go crazy over it as there is SO much awesome geekage that it'd be really easy to let the article become Godzillic. Still that's no reason to starve it into near uselessness either. A greater detail on the content, and list of profiles should be definite. I think a list of at least the TF references, kept as breif as possible should be VERY within the usual scope ot this wiki as well.--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.72.27|76.28.72.27]] 13:28, 2 September 2009 (EDT)

Agreed. Ever since Chris did the work on his annotated version, I've been urging him to wikify it and integrate it into the article.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 13:35, 2 September 2009 (EDT)
:Is this a consensus I see forming to add back in the wikified references? (Attempting to restrain myself ...) --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 13:38, 2 September 2009 (EDT)
::Do both. Include references here, and link to Chris's external reference list. There will be overlap... but different eyes see different things, neh? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:41, 2 September 2009 (EDT)
:::Works for me. "It's long" is no reason not to include something on the wiki. [[The Core#Notes|Just the opposite]], [[B.O.T. (episode)#Notes|in fact]]. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 13:47, 2 September 2009 (EDT)

==Sandbox Discussion==

OK, I took a stab at a format that keeps readability but also incorporates the wikifying work already done. Check it out here: "Jimsorenson/Sandbox1". Thoughts? --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 15:21, 2 September 2009 (EDT)

I dig it. In situations like this, I ''love'' our articles being this informative.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 17:37, 2 September 2009 (EDT)
:Yes, well, so do I, but I feel weird doing this myself. Note that, for references, I'm restricting myself to dropping in work that was already done by other. That is, even if it's "wrong" or incomplete or not what I was going for, I'm still just copying it and pasting it in.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 17:45, 2 September 2009 (EDT)
::Well Jim, if something is ''wrong'', do let us know! Don't want to spread misinfo! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 17:52, 2 September 2009 (EDT)
:::I concede that this will look better than the more sparse approach I'd previously suggested. I just feel a little weird about basically outing ALL the in-jokes in the book.... though it ''is'' why we're here. Go for it. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 17:56, 2 September 2009 (EDT)
::::OK, I think I'm done ... thoughts? The references in chapter 4 were just too dense. For the real-world stuff, I figured I'd break it out into a sub-page. For Garbage O's, Venus and the Detroit Powell Press, all fairly reference-dense, I figured it'd be enough for the references to be on their own pages. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 19:12, 2 September 2009 (EDT)

I'm thinking we might want to trim some of the reference explanations for brevity's sake... since we link to the things being referenced anyway. For example, "''In addition, he calls it a “[[Seafood Louis]] creature”, after the crab salad notable among Transformers fans for having been served at several BotCons.''" could probably be trimmed to just ""''In addition, he calls it a “[[Seafood Louis]] creature”.''" what with the link. A little bit of that here and there can really trim things nicely. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:42, 2 September 2009 (EDT)
:I agree with you completely. That said, that takes us into an area that I'm not comfortable editing. All I've been doing was grabbing wiki code from the edit by Bishbot, which was in turn just a wikified version (more or less) of Chris McFeely's annotations. If there is to be further trimming here, I think that it'd be best done by someone more objective.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 20:47, 2 September 2009 (EDT)
::Thoroughly understandable. I'll give a go at em. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:49, 2 September 2009 (EDT)
:::If anything, at this point I'd say there's enough support to move this material to the main article, and let everyone hone it.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 20:51, 2 September 2009 (EDT)

== Scans ==

Could some people who have the book upload scans of it? like for example for blackaracnia's page we could have the character model for Blackarachnia so why not?
--[[Special:Contributions/92.238.187.82|92.238.187.82]] 11:37, 14 September 2009 (EDT)
:Er, we already have 90% of the character models uploaded?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 12:05, 14 September 2009 (EDT)
::Well, a lot of what the wiki has up is style guide art, not character models. However, the principles of fair use still apply - a few excerpts here or there are fine, but scanning in everyone's character model and posting them is definitely not fine. It is not necessary for the wiki to have everyone's character model posted here.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 12:18, 14 September 2009 (EDT)
:::Hmmm. You leave me wondering, what is "style guide art" and how does it differ from character models? Does the wiki need a "style guide" page? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 12:25, 14 September 2009 (EDT)
::::By my uneducated estimation, a "character model" would be a static pose of the character, standing still, arms at sides, designed to straightforwardly illustrate the details of their bodies so that they animators and artists can draw them correctly. If what we have on the wiki is "style guide" art, then that would appear to be art that gives off personality and character - observe Prowl's ninja-pose, or Bulkhead's crossed arms, they give off plenty of character, but obscure chest details that artists would need to render the character properly. - McFeely, not signed in
:::::Bingo. [[:Image:AniBlitzwingPromoModel.jpg|Blitzwing's character model]] vs [[:Image:AniBulkheadPromoModel.jpg|Bulkhead's style guide artwork]]. Character models are used by animators and comic book artists so that characters can be drawn in a uniform way. The style guide imagery is generally given out to other licensees and is (I believe) designed to convey both the character's design and their basic personality. The art is designed so that it can be just dropped in place and look cool, which isn't something that character models need to accomplish.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 12:48, 14 September 2009 (EDT)

Offhand, I'd say style guide images make for more evocative main images on character articles than straight-up character models. Given my druthers, I think we should use the less static pose where availability and layout permit.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 13:25, 14 September 2009 (EDT)

so eh does this mean we should upload scans or not? {{unsigned|92.238.160.72}}
:That's a big NO. (Aside from a small amount for fair-use.) --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 13:18, 26 September 2009 (EDT)

== Vector Prime ==

Hi! I am reading the book right now and I do not understand the Vector Prime part. I understand that Primus is god so who is vector prime. Like why is he in here. I just do not understand transdimension thingies. Does anybody think they can explain it very simple that an 11 yr old can understand it.{{unsigned|76.23.202.3|17:27, 7 October 2009}}
:Hello. Vector Prime is a very, very old Transformer. He can see across many different dimensions. He looks in to the universe of Transformers Animated and watches some events, then writes down what he sees. Does that make sense?--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 17:54, 7 October 2009 (EDT)
::Specifically, we have an article on [[Vector Prime]] if you want to find out more about him!--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 18:03, 7 October 2009 (EDT)
Oh Thanks! I did look on his article I really am just like wow! but now I get it so He is old and is a bot who sees everything.{{unsigned|76.23.202.3|18:11, 7 October 2009}}

== Defensor United ==

Pg 124 refers to Defensor United sports team. I remember the Marvel UK letters page referring to Cybertronian sports teams - e.g. "Bruticus All Blacks" is one I remember. Does anyone know if Defensor United was one of the other teams from that? [[User:J'mie|J'mie]] 17:32, 12 October 2009 (EDT)

Ok, never mind. Found it in the Mecha-Soccer page (thanks to the timely update of the Cybertron sports page by Jimsorenson that led me there!) [[User:J'mie|J'mie]] 17:42, 12 October 2009 (EDT)

== Categorization ==

I have kind of a technical question. If a character appears in the cartoon and in the Almanac, would their character page be put in the [[:Category:Cartoon-only characters]] or [[:Category:Fiction-only characters]]? If this were strictly a profile book, it would be "Cartoon-only" but this is kind of "reference text" and kind of "fiction", since it is written in-fiction. I was going to put cartoon and Almanac characters into "Fiction-only" but I wanted to check.

Also, I see that some Almanac-only characters are in [[:Category:Prose-only characters]]. I think that is correct, but I could also see it in [[:Category:Profile-only characters]]. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 14:40, 14 December 2009 (EST)

:I'd suggest fiction-only, from my biased viewpoint. Also, given the plethora of images, I'd hesitate to call the characters prose-only, though I suppose prose is closer than most other alternatives. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 20:11, 7 January 2010 (EST)

== Scholastic Edition ==
So, it turns out there is a Scholastic Edition of the book. It's 120 pages, covers Autobots, Decepticons, Humans and Culture, and it's a lot smaller than the regular version. It's maybe 5 by 7, down from 8.5 by 11. So, how does that get covered here? A note on this page? Probably not its own page. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 20:11, 7 January 2010 (EST)
:Link to the listing? As for covering it, maybe its publication info (ISBNs, page #s, publication date, etc.) at the bottom? --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 20:40, 7 January 2010 (EST)
::I happen to own the no-good worthless ripoff piece of shit. [[User:ZeldaTheSwordsman|ZeldaTheSwordsman]] 17:19, 13 June 2010 (EDT)
:::Ouch. How bad is it? --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 00:14, 14 June 2010 (EDT)
::::Chapters 4, 6, and 7 are left out and the others have all had detail trimmed from them. [[User:ZeldaTheSwordsman|ZeldaTheSwordsman]] 15:32, 24 June 2010 (EDT)

== Magnus Memoirs oddity ==

I've noticed that the last sentence on page 145 just kinda ''ends'', with "Would that all of our". Is that intentional (it ''is'' an excerpt, after all) or a goof? (Yes I am hideously late in getting to actually read this.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 11:02, 18 February 2010 (EST)
:That was intentional, and made my copy editor apoplectic. I didn't want it to seem like the whole chapter was one page, and that seemed like a good way.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 12:00, 18 February 2010 (EST)
::<nowiki>*</nowiki>chuckle* Admittedly, with sympathies to your copy editor, I can't think of a good way it could have been marked as intentional without breaking the verisimilitude either. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:16, 18 February 2010 (EST)

== Even More Almanac Tidbits ==

I'm sure there must be something out of [http://boltax.blogspot.com/2010/06/post-no-bill-secrets-of-almanac-one.html Forster's latest notes] that should be worth adding... I'm just not sure what and where, admittedly. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:02, 9 June 2010 (EDT)

== January FA? ==

Let's face it, this page is pretty much complete. Anyone else think this should be the FA for January? --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 05:27, 28 December 2010 (EST)
:Well, just looking at the article without actually reading it, I think it would at least need some more images to break up the wall of text effect a bit. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 05:49, 28 December 2010 (EST)
:: Actually, we were sort of grooming [[Wreck-Gar (G1)]] for January over the past few days. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 09:00, 28 December 2010 (EST)
:::Note to self: watch Allspark thread more.
:::Anyway, let's leave this for February. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 04:57, 30 December 2010 (EST)

Talk:Transformers Animated: The AllSpark Almanac

2010-12-28T10:27:32Z

-Blackout-: /* January FA? */ new section

Battle for Iacon

2010-12-27T10:46:01Z

-Blackout-: /* Animated cartoon continuity */

:''The Battle for Iacon is a battle from the [[Transformers Animated (franchise)|Animated]] [[continuity family]].''

[[Image:TransWarpedDefeatedOmega.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Help, I've fallen, and I can't get up!]]

The '''Battle for Iacon''' was the climatic battle between the Autobots and Decepticons that finally concluded the [[Great War (Animated)|Great War]]. It started after [[Megatron (Animated)|Megatron]] used the "[[False Calm]]" strategy to reach Cybertron unnoticed, where his troops attempted to capture the [[space bridge nexus]] in [[Iacon (city-state)|Iacon]] by force. The Autobots were led into battle by [[Ultra Magnus (Animated)|Ultra Magnus]], and the Decepticons led by [[Straxus (Animated)|Straxus]].

==Fiction==
===Animated cartoon continuity===
The [[Autobot]]s won the battle, though at the cost of [[Beta Supreme]], [[Eta Supreme]], [[Gamma Supreme]], [[Sigma Supreme]] and [[Omega Supreme (Animated)|Omega Supreme]]. The latter two were locked into [[Steelhaven (Animated)|modified]] [[Teletran-1|stasis]]. [[Warpath (Animated)|Warpath]] was badly injured, but he recovered.
[[Image:Transwarped-Warpath.jpg|thumb|right|200px|So, uh, no toy, huh?]]
The Decepticons were exiled to [[New Kaon]]. {{storylink|Transformers Animated: The AllSpark Almanac Volume 2}}{{storylink|A Bridge Too Close, Part II}}{{storylink|TransWarped}}

==Known participants==

*[[Ultra Magnus (Animated)|Ultra Magnus]]
*[[Straxus (Animated)|Straxus]]
*[[Ratchet (Animated)|Ratchet]]
*[[Warpath (Animated)|Warpath]]
*[[Reflector (Animated)|Reflector]]
*[[Blackout (Animated)|Blackout]]
*[[Beta Supreme]]
*[[Eta Supreme]]
*[[Gamma Supreme]]
*[[Sigma Supreme]]
*[[Omega Supreme (Animated)|Omega Supreme]]

==Notes==
* The battle was originally going to be included in [[TransWarped]], but alas, was cut for time.

[[Category:Animated]]
[[Category:Battles]]