MediaWiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Alice (ROTF)

2009-06-28T13:19:49Z

114.78.235.104:

== Pretender? ==

Would it be accurate to consider that Alice might be a Pretender? Doesn't seem to transform, just covers herself in a shell.
: She's not a Pretender by our definition. She's more like Optimus Primal - a robot that transforms into an organic primate. There's no shell involved at all. Mind, the powers that be may say she's a Pretender anyhow. Until then, she's just a Transformer who transforms into a human. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:39, 26 June 2009 (EDT)
::How exactly did she transform? The "skin" just seemed to fold back, revealing the robot beneath, with no actual shape-changing.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 09:48, 26 June 2009 (EDT)
::: I think that, if anything official calls her a 'Pretender', including semi-official things like interviews with people who would know, we could call her one. Otherwise, though, it's just another Sari Sumdac situation. Her conversion from human to robot was different enough than any prior depiction of pretenders (splitting in half or phasing out, like in the Marvel comic, or disappearing in a burst of light or puff of smoke, like in Masterforce) that we'd be taking too big a leap. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 10:10, 26 June 2009 (EDT)
::::I know it probably doesn't mean much, but in [http://au.movies.ign.com/articles/944/944836p1.html this interview] Orci says "there is a Pretender". -[[User:Mazenoise|Mazenoise]] 10:13, 26 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::Well, as far as I'm concerned, that'd be enough. I don't know if that will be the consensus around here. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 10:23, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

The film's producers do seem to intend this to be their take on the pretender concept.

For what it's worth, it looked ''to me'' like she had little 'tiles' of flesh all over her body that folded back. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 10:25, 26 June 2009 (EDT)
:I agree that I think that was their intention. But that makes it a little difficult to define a Pretender in the movieverse. Pretenders typically have a shell ''and'' altmode. All Transformers pretend to be something else. What makes a Camaro different than a human? Is a Pretender simply a Transformer with a biological altmode, or a Transformer with an altmode mimicking any other life-from? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 10:40, 26 June 2009 (EDT)
:If i might add, she is alto like a terminator, in that she's a robot covered in a soft organic "alive" shell to fool humans. The only thing different is that she can "retract" it(somehow, the tip of her tongue does not). would that be worth noting?--[[User:Sunjumper|Sunjumper]] 11:10, 26 June 2009 (EDT)
::Also, not every Pretender has an alt mode - see the Dinoforce. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 11:12, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

:::It's possible Alice ''has'' an altmode beyond her shell, she just didn't transform.
:::I agree that Alice's "integrated shell" is unique among Pretenders... but they ''called'' her a Pretender in interviews. (Which we seriously need a cite for.) I agree she's a ''different type'' of Pretender... but we've had pretenders with pop-open shells, phase-out shells, remote-control shells, disappearing size-reducing shells, animal shells, vehicle shells, combining and transforming shells... this isn't really far out of line for that.
:::It's ''complicated'' by the original Honda/Alive-in-Wonderland plot, but that genuinely seems to have been cut from the theatrical version-- all traces were excused. So we're left with the simple fact-- she can turn into a human-- something ''none'' of the other Transformers are able to mimic, and the producers called her a Pretender in interviews.
:::She's a Pretender. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 11:25, 26 June 2009 (EDT)
::::Someone who's got the exact wording needs to add a quote to this article of the "I'll pretend to be your girlfriend, you pretend to be my boyfriend" line. That's probably my favorite line from the entire movie, for being such a subtle nod. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 16:05, 27 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::I'd definitely vote for classing her as a Pretender, albeit a Movieverse variation on the concept. After all, the Japanese-verse Masterforce Petenders didn't really have literal "shells" ''per se'', right? They just sort of magically changed from human to robot in a weird lightshow, didn't they?[[Special:Contributions/114.78.235.104|114.78.235.104]] 09:19, 28 June 2009 (EDT)

Talk:Accent

2009-06-26T04:58:50Z

114.78.235.104:

==Kansai accent/dialect==
Someone who knows more about Japan, can you please throw something in here about the use of regional accents/dialects in Japanese media? I know Kansai is supposed to suggest a kind of naivety or bumpkin-like mentality, but I don't know much more than that. Are there other accents that are used similarly? And is there a 'default' sort of voice, like how most TFs from the Western fiction have that generic Midwestern news reader accent (or lack thereof?) [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 08:31, 16 April 2009 (EDT)

==Before the crash==
Was there a big discussion here before the crash? Google cache is long gone by now. --[[User:Fleb|fleb]] 22:43, 8 June 2009 (EDT)
:Better off. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 23:04, 8 June 2009 (EDT)
::To quote Mr. Worf, You have ''no'' idea. It was epic. Mind you, doesn't seem like such a "stupid" debate now that major news outlets are talking about, does it?[[Special:Contributions/114.78.235.104|114.78.235.104]] 00:58, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

Micro-continuity

2009-05-23T04:40:24Z

114.78.235.104: /* Prose stories */

[[Image:Decepticonhideout.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Wrecking balls really push his buttons.]]
Since the dawn of the [[Transformers brand]], a variety of unconnected media has conspired to create multiple [[Continuity|continuities]], even within individual [[Franchise|franchises]]. The most famous such continuity split is the divergence of the original [[The Transformers (cartoon)|cartoon]] and [[The Transformers (Marvel Comics)|comic]], which contributed sometimes similar but ultimately irreconcilable versions of [[Generation 1 (franchise)|Generation 1]]. While the most prominent continuities are well known, there exist many '''"micro-continuities"''': continuities about which only very limited information is available, yet which manage in that small space to be incompatible with the major continuities.

Although all officially produced fiction is [[canon]] for some continuity or another, the significance of these "micro-continuities" is a matter of individual fans' tastes and [[Personal canon|personal canons]].

== Limited fictions ==
Continuities that exist in a very small number of works may share an apparent single continuity, such as the [[Ladybird Books|Ladybird]] or [[Find Your Fate Junior]] books. Some continuities may even appear in only a single isolated work, such as the ''[[Transformers Beast Wars: Transmetals]]'' video game.

Although usually small and insignificant in the wider scheme of things, such tales can contain interesting or unique takes on certain characters or situations—for example, providing actual stories in which [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] and [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]] spent a prolonged period as opposing leaders, a status quo hinted at by much of the lead-in and post-movie product advertising but which was ultimately never realized in the major fictions.

Other examples of limited fictions include any comic mini-series that present a clearly unique and isolated continuity that has only been shown within the pages of that series and has not been revisited, such as the WWII-set ''[[Transformers/G.I. Joe]]''.

===Prose stories===
[[Image:TFLegendscover.jpg|right|180px|thumb|Mmmm...lucky dip.]]
Probably the most underdeveloped medium in Transformers fiction, prose stories are considered to be offshoots from their parent continuities (as is often the case with the expanded universes of even prolifically novelized franchises like ''Star Trek''). However, the prose stories that were included in the [[Marvel UK]] annuals are a notable exception, as most of these are usually treated as part of UK continuity.

The [[Find Your Fate Junior]] books are, by their very nature, micro-continuities (or, if you want to be pedantic, they contain ''multiple'' "nano"-continuities within them), since the various outcomes frequently involve the deaths of major characters.

The success of [[Dreamwave Productions|Dreamwave]] inspired a small, short-lived boom in ''Transformers'' prose fiction. The [[Keepers Trilogy]] was [[Authorial intent|intended]] to be set in the Dreamwave continuity, but as Dreamwave was not really involved in their publication and subsequent Dreamwave comics made no explicit reference to them, it is a matter of [[Personal canon|taste]] whether the trilogy is part of the Dreamwave-verse proper or is a micro-continuity offshoot.

The prose anthology book ''[[Transformers Legends]]'' is more cut-and-dried at first glance. The foreword by editor David Cian explicitly states that the short stories in the anthology do ''not'' have canonical status in their respective continuities, and are "what-if" tales. For some of the stories, such as "[[Paddles (story)|Paddles]]", "[[Fire in the Dark]]", and "[[Lonesome Diesel]]", it is quite clear from their inconsistency with pre-existing continuities that they are micro-continuities.

However, other stories in the volume (such as "[[Singularity Ablyss]]", "[[Geosensus|Parts]]", "[[A Meeting of Minds]]", and "[[Redemption Center]]") fit nicely into their respective continuities and (were it not for the editor's caveat) could easily be canon. [[Personal canon|It is thus debatable]] whether these stories are also mere micro-continuity offshoots or something more.

{{-}}

== Implied continuities ==
While never truly represented by any narrative fiction, some micro-continuities arise as the result of discrepancies between the toy lines and characters' portrayals elsewhere. In ''Generation 1'' this was often limited to individual characters' appearances varying drastically between toy and cartoon (and, by extension, most other media). Prominent examples of this are [[Jetfire (G1)|Jetfire]] and [[Ironhide (G1)|Ironhide]].

Implied continuities can also include discrepancies in on-package [[Bio|bios]], such as [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]] being described as merely "Decepticon [[City Commander]]" and possessing a lower rank than his unspecified superiors (not to mention the fact that he is nowhere said to be a reformatted [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]], probably to avoid spoiling the movie). A more striking example of such differences implying the existence of whole new continuities occurs in ''[[Beast Wars]]'' and ''[[Beast Machines]]'' (see below.)

===Bio-only continuities===
Some toys exist in a complete continuity vacuum; the only indications as to the nature of the universe they inhabit that can be gleaned are from their on-package bios.

====Cross-Promotional toys====
[[Image:NikemusPrime.jpg|right|180px|thumb|Corporate endorsements are the right of all variant Primes.]]
Japanese [[Exclusive|exclusives]] are particularly prone to this, especially some of their more bizarre cross-promotion toys such as [[Pepsi Convoy]], the Takara Sport Label [[Optimus Prime (G1) toys|Optimus Prime]] and [[Megatron (G1) toys|Megatron]] figures, who transform into miniature Nike sneakers, or Takara Music Label's [[Optimus Prime (G1) toys|Optimus Prime]] or MP3 player [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]]. Is one seriously to consider these characters part of a mainstream version of [[Generation 1|G1 continuity]] as their bios imply, or does one relegate them to weird little micro-continuities in which Optimus has an insatiable desire for signing endorsement deals? [[Personal canon|YOU decide.]]

====Machine Wars====
The ''[[Machine Wars]]'' toy line is the best example of bio-only implied continuity as, very unusually, it represents an entire line (albeit a ''very'' small one) which possesses no official fiction in any form save for the toy bios, in which story hints are limited mainly to the existence of [[Megaplex]] and a few peculiarities about [[Thundercracker (G1)|Thundercracker]]. Given the lack of any other story material, whether the differences/character development with Thundercracker imply a whole new micro-continuity or are viewed as new developments within an existing continuity falls solely to personal preference.

====Movie (2007)====

[[Movie (toyline)|''Transformers'' (2007) toys]] continued to be brought out after the movie had ended, and a number placed themselves as happening ''after'' the movie. With no narrative backing and the sequel not using this concepts, the bios thus create an implied continuity where [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] is infused with the power of the All Spark, [[Jazz (Movie)|Jazz]] is not dead, [[Ironhide (Movie)|Ironhide]] and (temporarily) [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]] retired, [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] carried out a stealthy war, and the Autobots took the fight to Decepticons on [[Mars]].

On top of this, inconsistencies with the bios and the film give the impression of a different ''pre''-movie continuity. Two main differences are that [[Hardtop (Movie)|Hardtop]] is the one that silenced Bumblebee; and that ''[[Scorponok (Movie)|Scorponok]]'' was the one leading the search for the All Spark, and wanted to take full command.

{{picsneeded}}

=== Beast Toylines vs. Shows ===
Unlike G1, the [[Beast Era]] has not featured major divergent continuities, leading (at least for most of its existence) to a fairly unified canon.

However, due to the high cost and time constraints of a fully CG-animated series, both [[Mainframe Entertainment]]'s ''Beast'' shows were limited in the number of characters that could be included. They are remarkable amongst the Transformers franchises in ''not'' showcasing nearly every available toy as a character in the show. As a result, the main ''[[Beast Wars]]'' and ''[[Beast Machines]]'' fiction-depicted continuities feature only a limited portion of the overall number of toys/characters created, and furthermore the tight storytelling and premises of the shows leave little room for their inclusion in an "off camera" capacity (although see below: "When is a micro-continuity not a micro-continuity?"). An additional discrepancy in ''[[Beast Wars]]'' is that several characters, such as [[Waspinator (BW)|Waspinator]] and [[Rhinox (BW)|Rhinox]], were featured as Transmetal toys, but were not upgraded in the cartoon. (Note that IDW's ''[[Beast Wars Sourcebook]]'' attempts to provide a rationale for these missing Transmetal bodies, as well as the bat and crocodile forms of Primal and Megatron, [[Beast Wars timeline (IDW)|at least in terms of their own version of continuity]].)

One can either postulate that the toy line ''itself'' implies a micro-continuity in which the full number of toy characters coexisted, or one could attempt to reconcile these characters with an already existent micro-continuity: that of the pre-cartoon on-package bios and mini-comic...

==== The "G1 Beast Wars" ====
On-package bios for the first waves of ''Beast Wars'' indicated that the Beast Wars took place on present-day Earth, and that [[Optimus Primal]] and [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]] were just G1 [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] and [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] in the latest of their long series of reformatted bodies. This storyline was showcased in one installment of "limited fiction," a comic which was included with the bat Optimus and alligator Megatron 2-pack.

Although later bios would reflect the universe established by the ''Beast Wars'' cartoon, these first-series materials create a micro-continuity that features a bat-mode Optimus Prime(al) leading troops that include the likes of both [[Rattrap]] and [[Razorbeast]] against an alligator-mode Megatron and his minions, such as [[Tarantulas]] and [[Iguanus (BW)|Iguanus]], stalking their secret genetic labs and duking it out for the fate of modern, urban Earth. It is then open to debate whether Optimus and Megatron subsequently "upgraded" to their gorilla and T-Rex modes (the comic certainly implies that Megatron plans to), or that later waves of show, non-show, and even Transmetal characters are featured in this micro-continuity.

==== Crawling with Maximals ====
The ''[[Beast Machines (toyline)|Beast Machines toyline]]'' contained many toy-only characters—[[Maximal]], [[Vehicon (BM)|Vehicon]], and "[[Dinobots (BM)|other]]"—who were again fairly incompatible with the tightly plotted continuity of the cartoon. A similar "implied continuity" can be postulated that would include these extra characters in an alternate version of events that supported a larger cast.

== When is a micro-continuity not a micro-continuity? ==
There are some continuities which have attempted to explain retroactively the presence (or rather absence) of the non-show characters in both ''Beast Wars'' and ''Beast Machines''. [[3H Productions|3H]]'s ''[[Universe (2003 comic)|Wreckers]]'' comics and associated projects attempted to fill out much of the ''Beast Machines'' gaps in a workable fashion, while [[IDW Publishing|IDW]] has tackled virtually every toy-only ''[[Beast Wars (toyline)|Beast Wars]]'' character in ''[[Beast Wars]]'': ''[[The Gathering]]''. However, these two approaches contradict each other, and neither have (as yet) provided expansive storylines. Whether one deems these stories to be part of the larger show-based canon (despite contradictions), individual "complementary" continuities, or indeed just larger-than-usual micro-continuities themselves is, like most things, up to the individual fan's taste and [[personal canon]].

By the same token, the comic-book fictions for [[Generation 2 (Marvel Comics)|Generation 2]] and [[Classics (2006)|Transformers Classics]] present timelines that diverge from the U.S./U.K. [[Generation 1 (comic)|Marvel comic]], each representing full toy lines. This may be compared with [[Machine Wars]] which is apparently a continuation of G1 but may or may not exist (later) in the same timeline as G2. Whether such examples of divergent offshoots of larger continuities should be classed as micro-continuities (in spite of toylines and many issues of fiction) or be included with their "parent" continuities as branched extensions is, again, a matter of taste and [[personal canon]].

{{stub}}

[[Category:Continuities]]
[[Category:Fandom]]
[[Category:Media]]
[[Category:Stories]]

Micro-continuity

2009-05-23T04:39:07Z

114.78.235.104: /* Limited fictions */

[[Image:Decepticonhideout.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Wrecking balls really push his buttons.]]
Since the dawn of the [[Transformers brand]], a variety of unconnected media has conspired to create multiple [[Continuity|continuities]], even within individual [[Franchise|franchises]]. The most famous such continuity split is the divergence of the original [[The Transformers (cartoon)|cartoon]] and [[The Transformers (Marvel Comics)|comic]], which contributed sometimes similar but ultimately irreconcilable versions of [[Generation 1 (franchise)|Generation 1]]. While the most prominent continuities are well known, there exist many '''"micro-continuities"''': continuities about which only very limited information is available, yet which manage in that small space to be incompatible with the major continuities.

Although all officially produced fiction is [[canon]] for some continuity or another, the significance of these "micro-continuities" is a matter of individual fans' tastes and [[Personal canon|personal canons]].

== Limited fictions ==
Continuities that exist in a very small number of works may share an apparent single continuity, such as the [[Ladybird Books|Ladybird]] or [[Find Your Fate Junior]] books. Some continuities may even appear in only a single isolated work, such as the ''[[Transformers Beast Wars: Transmetals]]'' video game.

Although usually small and insignificant in the wider scheme of things, such tales can contain interesting or unique takes on certain characters or situations—for example, providing actual stories in which [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] and [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]] spent a prolonged period as opposing leaders, a status quo hinted at by much of the lead-in and post-movie product advertising but which was ultimately never realized in the major fictions.

Other examples of limited fictions include any comic mini-series that present a clearly unique and isolated continuity that has only been shown within the pages of that series and has not been revisited, such as the WWII-set ''[[Transformers/G.I. Joe]]''.

===Prose stories===
Probably the most underdeveloped medium in Transformers fiction, prose stories are considered to be offshoots from their parent continuities (as is often the case with the expanded universes of even prolifically novelized franchises like ''Star Trek''). However, the prose stories that were included in the [[Marvel UK]] annuals are a notable exception, as most of these are usually treated as part of UK continuity.

[[Image:TFLegendscover.jpg|left|190px|thumb|Mmmm...lucky dip.]]
The [[Find Your Fate Junior]] books are, by their very nature, micro-continuities (or, if you want to be pedantic, they contain ''multiple'' "nano"-continuities within them), since the various outcomes frequently involve the deaths of major characters.

The success of [[Dreamwave Productions|Dreamwave]] inspired a small, short-lived boom in ''Transformers'' prose fiction. The [[Keepers Trilogy]] was [[Authorial intent|intended]] to be set in the Dreamwave continuity, but as Dreamwave was not really involved in their publication and subsequent Dreamwave comics made no explicit reference to them, it is a matter of [[Personal canon|taste]] whether the trilogy is part of the Dreamwave-verse proper or is a micro-continuity offshoot.

The prose anthology book ''[[Transformers Legends]]'' is more cut-and-dried at first glance. The foreword by editor David Cian explicitly states that the short stories in the anthology do ''not'' have canonical status in their respective continuities, and are "what-if" tales. For some of the stories, such as "[[Paddles (story)|Paddles]]", "[[Fire in the Dark]]", and "[[Lonesome Diesel]]", it is quite clear from their inconsistency with pre-existing continuities that they are micro-continuities.

However, other stories in the volume (such as "[[Singularity Ablyss]]", "[[Geosensus|Parts]]", "[[A Meeting of Minds]]", and "[[Redemption Center]]") fit nicely into their respective continuities and (were it not for the editor's caveat) could easily be canon. [[Personal canon|It is thus debatable]] whether these stories are also mere micro-continuity offshoots or something more.

{{-}}

== Implied continuities ==
While never truly represented by any narrative fiction, some micro-continuities arise as the result of discrepancies between the toy lines and characters' portrayals elsewhere. In ''Generation 1'' this was often limited to individual characters' appearances varying drastically between toy and cartoon (and, by extension, most other media). Prominent examples of this are [[Jetfire (G1)|Jetfire]] and [[Ironhide (G1)|Ironhide]].

Implied continuities can also include discrepancies in on-package [[Bio|bios]], such as [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]] being described as merely "Decepticon [[City Commander]]" and possessing a lower rank than his unspecified superiors (not to mention the fact that he is nowhere said to be a reformatted [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]], probably to avoid spoiling the movie). A more striking example of such differences implying the existence of whole new continuities occurs in ''[[Beast Wars]]'' and ''[[Beast Machines]]'' (see below.)

===Bio-only continuities===
Some toys exist in a complete continuity vacuum; the only indications as to the nature of the universe they inhabit that can be gleaned are from their on-package bios.

====Cross-Promotional toys====
[[Image:NikemusPrime.jpg|right|180px|thumb|Corporate endorsements are the right of all variant Primes.]]
Japanese [[Exclusive|exclusives]] are particularly prone to this, especially some of their more bizarre cross-promotion toys such as [[Pepsi Convoy]], the Takara Sport Label [[Optimus Prime (G1) toys|Optimus Prime]] and [[Megatron (G1) toys|Megatron]] figures, who transform into miniature Nike sneakers, or Takara Music Label's [[Optimus Prime (G1) toys|Optimus Prime]] or MP3 player [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]]. Is one seriously to consider these characters part of a mainstream version of [[Generation 1|G1 continuity]] as their bios imply, or does one relegate them to weird little micro-continuities in which Optimus has an insatiable desire for signing endorsement deals? [[Personal canon|YOU decide.]]

====Machine Wars====
The ''[[Machine Wars]]'' toy line is the best example of bio-only implied continuity as, very unusually, it represents an entire line (albeit a ''very'' small one) which possesses no official fiction in any form save for the toy bios, in which story hints are limited mainly to the existence of [[Megaplex]] and a few peculiarities about [[Thundercracker (G1)|Thundercracker]]. Given the lack of any other story material, whether the differences/character development with Thundercracker imply a whole new micro-continuity or are viewed as new developments within an existing continuity falls solely to personal preference.

====Movie (2007)====

[[Movie (toyline)|''Transformers'' (2007) toys]] continued to be brought out after the movie had ended, and a number placed themselves as happening ''after'' the movie. With no narrative backing and the sequel not using this concepts, the bios thus create an implied continuity where [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] is infused with the power of the All Spark, [[Jazz (Movie)|Jazz]] is not dead, [[Ironhide (Movie)|Ironhide]] and (temporarily) [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]] retired, [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] carried out a stealthy war, and the Autobots took the fight to Decepticons on [[Mars]].

On top of this, inconsistencies with the bios and the film give the impression of a different ''pre''-movie continuity. Two main differences are that [[Hardtop (Movie)|Hardtop]] is the one that silenced Bumblebee; and that ''[[Scorponok (Movie)|Scorponok]]'' was the one leading the search for the All Spark, and wanted to take full command.

{{picsneeded}}

=== Beast Toylines vs. Shows ===
Unlike G1, the [[Beast Era]] has not featured major divergent continuities, leading (at least for most of its existence) to a fairly unified canon.

However, due to the high cost and time constraints of a fully CG-animated series, both [[Mainframe Entertainment]]'s ''Beast'' shows were limited in the number of characters that could be included. They are remarkable amongst the Transformers franchises in ''not'' showcasing nearly every available toy as a character in the show. As a result, the main ''[[Beast Wars]]'' and ''[[Beast Machines]]'' fiction-depicted continuities feature only a limited portion of the overall number of toys/characters created, and furthermore the tight storytelling and premises of the shows leave little room for their inclusion in an "off camera" capacity (although see below: "When is a micro-continuity not a micro-continuity?"). An additional discrepancy in ''[[Beast Wars]]'' is that several characters, such as [[Waspinator (BW)|Waspinator]] and [[Rhinox (BW)|Rhinox]], were featured as Transmetal toys, but were not upgraded in the cartoon. (Note that IDW's ''[[Beast Wars Sourcebook]]'' attempts to provide a rationale for these missing Transmetal bodies, as well as the bat and crocodile forms of Primal and Megatron, [[Beast Wars timeline (IDW)|at least in terms of their own version of continuity]].)

One can either postulate that the toy line ''itself'' implies a micro-continuity in which the full number of toy characters coexisted, or one could attempt to reconcile these characters with an already existent micro-continuity: that of the pre-cartoon on-package bios and mini-comic...

==== The "G1 Beast Wars" ====
On-package bios for the first waves of ''Beast Wars'' indicated that the Beast Wars took place on present-day Earth, and that [[Optimus Primal]] and [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]] were just G1 [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] and [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] in the latest of their long series of reformatted bodies. This storyline was showcased in one installment of "limited fiction," a comic which was included with the bat Optimus and alligator Megatron 2-pack.

Although later bios would reflect the universe established by the ''Beast Wars'' cartoon, these first-series materials create a micro-continuity that features a bat-mode Optimus Prime(al) leading troops that include the likes of both [[Rattrap]] and [[Razorbeast]] against an alligator-mode Megatron and his minions, such as [[Tarantulas]] and [[Iguanus (BW)|Iguanus]], stalking their secret genetic labs and duking it out for the fate of modern, urban Earth. It is then open to debate whether Optimus and Megatron subsequently "upgraded" to their gorilla and T-Rex modes (the comic certainly implies that Megatron plans to), or that later waves of show, non-show, and even Transmetal characters are featured in this micro-continuity.

==== Crawling with Maximals ====
The ''[[Beast Machines (toyline)|Beast Machines toyline]]'' contained many toy-only characters—[[Maximal]], [[Vehicon (BM)|Vehicon]], and "[[Dinobots (BM)|other]]"—who were again fairly incompatible with the tightly plotted continuity of the cartoon. A similar "implied continuity" can be postulated that would include these extra characters in an alternate version of events that supported a larger cast.

== When is a micro-continuity not a micro-continuity? ==
There are some continuities which have attempted to explain retroactively the presence (or rather absence) of the non-show characters in both ''Beast Wars'' and ''Beast Machines''. [[3H Productions|3H]]'s ''[[Universe (2003 comic)|Wreckers]]'' comics and associated projects attempted to fill out much of the ''Beast Machines'' gaps in a workable fashion, while [[IDW Publishing|IDW]] has tackled virtually every toy-only ''[[Beast Wars (toyline)|Beast Wars]]'' character in ''[[Beast Wars]]'': ''[[The Gathering]]''. However, these two approaches contradict each other, and neither have (as yet) provided expansive storylines. Whether one deems these stories to be part of the larger show-based canon (despite contradictions), individual "complementary" continuities, or indeed just larger-than-usual micro-continuities themselves is, like most things, up to the individual fan's taste and [[personal canon]].

By the same token, the comic-book fictions for [[Generation 2 (Marvel Comics)|Generation 2]] and [[Classics (2006)|Transformers Classics]] present timelines that diverge from the U.S./U.K. [[Generation 1 (comic)|Marvel comic]], each representing full toy lines. This may be compared with [[Machine Wars]] which is apparently a continuation of G1 but may or may not exist (later) in the same timeline as G2. Whether such examples of divergent offshoots of larger continuities should be classed as micro-continuities (in spite of toylines and many issues of fiction) or be included with their "parent" continuities as branched extensions is, again, a matter of taste and [[personal canon]].

{{stub}}

[[Category:Continuities]]
[[Category:Fandom]]
[[Category:Media]]
[[Category:Stories]]

Transformers/G.I. Joe

2009-05-23T04:32:21Z

114.78.235.104:

{{disambig2|the gravitas-soaked World War 2 crossover by Dreamwave|other stories with G.I. Joe|G.I. Joe crossovers}}
[[Image:Tfjoe01 2003 gatefold.jpg|right|400px|thumb|]]
<div align="right">

<table border="0" style="">

<tr>
<td rowspan="2" style="padding-right:.5em;"><div style="position: relative;">[[Image:Dwlogo_transparent.png|70px|]]</div>
</td><td>''[[Dreamwave Productions|Dreamwave comics]] ([[2002]]-[[2005]])''
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<td style="padding-left:1em;">[[Dreamwave Generation One continuity|Generation 1]] | <strong class="selflink">Transformers/G.I. Joe</strong><br />
[[Armada (Dreamwave comic)|Armada]] | [[Energon (comic)|Energon]]

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'''''Transformers/G.I. Joe''''' is a six-part miniseries published by [[Dreamwave Productions]] in 2004. The book is set in its own [[micro-continuity]], placing [[Transformers]] and [[G.I. Joe]] characters in a World War II setting, with alternate modes based on the period.

{|style="margin:0 auto;padding:0 auto" align=center id=toc
!align=center bgcolor=#6699CC|'''<font color="white">''Transformers/G.I. Joe'' issues:</font>'''
|-align=center
|| [[The Line|#1]] | [[Transformed|#2]] | [[Trial by Fire|#3]] | [[Wolves|#4]] | [[Trenches|#5]] | [[The Iron Fist|#6]]
|}

==Overview==
The story opens on late-1930s [[Earth]], which teeters on the brink of global war. The forces of [[Cobra]] uncover the Matrix and use it to rouse the dormant Decepticons, using them to ravage Europe. America deploys a new rag-tag special operations team to stop them -- G.I. Joe.

New alternate forms were designed for many characters by [[Don Figueroa]], with the [[Autobot|Autobots]] assuming the forms of Allied vehicles and the [[Decepticon|Decepticons]] taking Axis forms. Sadly, most of these new forms were largely obscured by the art of the finished series.

The series has been heavily criticized by some fans for being difficult to follow. The heavily stylized art could be described as gritty, evocative, and beautiful... and to an equal extent, murky, underlit, and incomprehensible. The art makes the entire story seem to happen at dusk or night, in a world filled with clouds, fog, dust, smoke and shadow. The art appears stylized to emulate World War II propaganda posters, an interesting choice but one that hurts the telling of the story.

Narrative compression and expansion likewise adds both drama and obscurity to the story. Important events such as [[Major Bludd]] actually seizing the [[Matrix of Leadership|Matrix]], or the downing in battle of [[Mirage (G1)|Mirage]], [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] and [[Hound (G1)|Hound]], are vaguely implied between panels or mentioned only in dialog, while splash pages (such as an entire two-page spread sans dialog in issue #5) do almost nothing to advance the plot. While this series is hardly alone in making such choices, combined with the heavily inked art, the end result is a story that is difficult to comprehend at times.

The series was followed by a second miniseries set in the present day, and drawn in a contemporary style. However, ''[[Transformers/G.I. Joe: Divided Front]]'' only had one issue produced before cancellation due to Dreamwave's bankruptcy.

==Creative Team==
The series written by [[John Ney Rieber]], with (very dark and murky) art by [[Jae Lee]].

[[Category:Generation 1]]
[[Category:Dreamwave titles]]