MediaWiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Alpha Trion/Generation 1

2006-04-27T18:55:20Z

150.253.70.55:

Am I the only one who thinks that Alpha Trion looks like Onslaught from The X-Men?

Except with a beard.

And a visible face.
--[[User:OctopusPrime|Octopus Prime- King of the Road!]] 23:59, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

We should add something about A3 being the first transformers and abotu A1 and A2 being failures X-BoB58

Therin lies the greatness of Wiki. You don't really need a group consensus to do that.--[[User:OctopusPrime|Octopus Prime- King of the Road!]] 00:53, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

*I don't know how to add it in.

==G1?==
Should this entry have the "(G1)" tag we add to most characters, or is he considered universal, like Unicron or Primus?--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 17:07, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

:I don't see why Alpha Trion would be "universal" (multiversal?). There are versions of him in other continuities, yes, but the same is true for Optimus Prime. I think you probably have to be a god to be the same guy everywhere. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 17:47, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

==Failures?==
Is there any actual basis for the statement "A1 and A2 were failures" in the cartoon, or was X-Bob just being funny?--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 17:17, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

It was in one of the old Comic Bom-bom issues, it was hosted at Hydra's site but now that's down.
:Who said this? And are Comic Bom-bom issues (which I have no access to) considered canon?--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 23:42, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

A. The Issiue in question was hosted at TFPulp wich is now down, you can ask Hydra or Buster over at the allspark for more info. [[User:X-BoB58|X-BoB58]] 23:43, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
:I assume this means that you posted the bit to which I asked "Who said this?" Thanks for the info. However, it doesn't actually answer my main question, which is "are the Comic Bom-Bom issues considered canon?" However, I grant that this is a bad question. More to the point, are they considered in the ''same'' continuity as the G1 cartoon that Alpha Trion originated in? If not, this statement should be sent to a note lower in the article, under a "Comic Bom-Bom" heading (see the Wreckers and Dreamwave Comics headings for examples). It is appropriate to include on the Wiki, but probably should not be part of Alpha Trion's defining bio at the top of the page.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 23:59, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
::Agreed. Especially considering how loose the J-fiction tends to play. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 00:03, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I would consider them cartoon-Cannon but others may not [[User:X-BoB58|X-BoB58]] 00:16, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

::Cartoon-cannon is a dicey issues, because the japanese cartoond is brannch off later, and it had some events even before the movie (scramble city) that were noticably different.
::(Did the Ark awaken in 1985 in the Japanese cartoon? I want to say that it did, but I don't think i have a basis to support that, it just want' released until 85 there.)-[[User:Derik|derik]]18:55, 27 April 2006 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:The Transformers: Infiltration

2006-04-27T18:51:45Z

150.253.70.55:

Will each Gathering and Infiltration issue get its own page? - [[User:207.112.110.135|207.112.110.135]] 20:57, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

:While the IDW G1 series in general should get its own page seperate from those on Infiltration, Escalation, etc., I'd say no, each individual issue shouldn't get its own page. Just give each story arc its own page (like we have one for Infiltration right now; this is how things are done for the Marvel comics already). I'd also lean heavily towards not giving individual issues of a mini-series their own pages, since it seems kinda pointless. --[[User:69.195.82.24|69.195.82.24]] 21:51, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

::Whoops, that was me. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 21:51, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Of course, that's already been done with the TFTM adaptation and Headmasters. - [[User:RolonBolon|RolonBolon]] 22:22, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
:As the person who's ended up creating the vast bulk of these entries, I can only say that the standard I've been using is, if the comic issue has a separate title, it gets a separate entry. Therefore, the four US issues of the Underbase Saga each get their own page, as does each issue of the two series you mention, but Time Wars gets one entry for the large number of issues it got. Anyone who feels this is inappropriate is welcome to make changes, but be warned that there's been a lot of precedent set by now (admittedly, mostly by me, but that's only because there really hasn't been anyone else doing comics).--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 23:40, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
:: I kinda prefer a page-per-issue deal, but I could easily be outnumbered by you folk. For example, the Fan Club comics share ongoing storylines, but there's so many continuity notes for each individual issue I think it would be confusing to keep track of things otherwise. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:02, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
:::For the US comics, I could make such revision quite easily (in fact, would probably only have to make one or two changes at most), if that's what people want. I was under the impression that "by story" was considered preferable when I started, mostly because we didn't seem to want redundant pages for UK comics that were essentially the same as US ones. However, I'd be happy to go "page-per-issue" with the US stuff that I've already done.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 02:00, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

::::I was thinking about this the other day- I think it has to be both consistent, and express that which is most appropriate.
::::In a lot of cases in modern storytelling (ugh) the same 'stuff' is appening in all the issues, with no different 'flavor' or focus to an individual issue. these usually have 1 title for 6 issues, and i feel its appropriate to cover them as one story.
::::Ultimately, i think if yu have a 1-title 6 issue series that actually has 6 very different storie in it (as sometimes happens) maybe it shoudl just be broken up into issue-numbered sub-sections on the story page. One of the benefits of a source as open-ended as Wiki is that you're not oppressd by a standard-- you can always go in and make exceptions/custom layouts. We have 2or 3 disambig templates, for example. Multiple standard layouts that best address the material, so to speak. -[[User:Derik|derik]]18:51, 27 April 2006 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Zoom-Zoom

2006-04-27T17:58:22Z

150.253.70.55:

<nowiki>*</nowiki>yawn* I bothered to save the SWF's from the Mazda sits (and the HTML framesets required to play them) against the say they went down, so I added in mroe specific info, sicne it's the only place he actually appears in english-language media.

I strongly believe this character's entry shoudl be change to 'The RX-8 (Zoom-Zoom)' since that is his actual name according Mazda's in-universe press release (well, 'The RX-8 Transformer,' but that's reduntant here) AND the BT backstory. Zoom-Zoom IS just a nickname.

The rest of the entry should probably be tweaked to reflect the specifics of the BT backstory. Near as i can tell- Jazz escaped the cosmic rust, and Mazda's vewrsion of the BT-project was goign to be building AI-warriors based ont heir investigations of his undamaged structure. The RX-8 was the first created, and Jazz was guidign the unimaginative AI by remote-control, trying to teach/menotor it into becoming a better independeint/creative thinker as it fought Decepticons. That wasnt' WORKING so well, so Jazz (who IMO, based on reading this sounds liek he was the highest-rankign undamaged autobot) was transfered into a White BT body- under the ALIAS of Miester, with mazda claiming (at least initially?) he was another AI so that the Decepticons wouldn't realize that the head of the Autobot resistance was exposing himself to such danger.(I'm using Doug's directors cut notes on BWTF.com here.)
Does that sound right/wrong to anyone else?
(I dont' want to do this one, but if I do, I want it done right)-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 08:21, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I am vehemently opposed to not calling him Zoom-Zoom. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 09:00, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, I have a hard time arguing with yourlogic. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 09:14, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I've yet to see anyone come up with a good argument against classifying him as Zoom-Zoom, the ONLY NAME HE'S EVER BEEN GIVEN. The other thing is a descriptor. - [[User: M Sipher]]

That Mazda cartoon was released in the US thus implanting Zoom-Soom into the US Canon [[User:X-BoB58|X-BoB58]] 23:20, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

:The only US "canon" for Alternators are the toys themselves. Zoom-Zoom isn't one of those. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 23:38, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

:: Bingo. Zoom-Zoom only exists as Zoom-Zoom in a Japanese toy in a Japanese fiction. Notice how the US Mazda press release states "spark from an Autobot soldier"... which Zoom-Zoom does NOT HAVE. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 23:42, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

:::But Meister's japanese backstory (going my memory) says Jazz is pretending he's someone else (so the 'cons don't target him as the quasi-head of the Autobots on Earth)-- it's nto publicly know that the BT Meister is jazz. So maybe there's just more disinformation going on. -[[User:Derik|derik]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Earth

2006-04-27T17:54:42Z

150.253.70.55:

I'm uneasy about the way the latest revision [http://transformers.wikia.com/index.php?title=Earth&oldid=10131] constructs its timeline, seemingly declaring that Beast Wars definitely happened in the G1 cartoon universe and that the G1 cartoon universe is definitely the same as the GI Joe cartoon universe. (Or, at least, is similar enough that it includes Cobra-La for example.) Multi-continuity synthesis is sometimes appropriate, but should always be explained, and here I don't think it is appropriate in the first place. The entry would be much better off split up into sections for different TF series, like many of our other articles. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 23:05, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

The Ice age happened after beast Wars. [[User:X-BoB58|X-BoB58]] 23:18, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

:X-bob- which ice age?
:Ar we sure we want to remove Cobra-La? Didn't Old Snake exhibit evidenc eof the changes from gi Joe:TM? -[[User:Derik|derik]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Astrotrain (disambiguation)

2006-04-27T17:51:13Z

150.253.70.55:

Uh, why is "Quintessa" listed as under "should not be confused with"? am I missing something? --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 16:21, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Its a in-joke from DW's Micromasters
:Once again, X-BoB, please use your signature when you comment. Also, jokes should be clearly stated as such, including references, if included at all. This is an encyclopedia of Transformers-related information, and not the place for throwing jokes around. As you can see, people get confused when facts and humor are not made clearly distinct.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 17:38, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

::In fairness, the disambig does warn s NOT TO CONFUSE Astrotrain with Quintessa, so it's not like it's learing us wrong. :-) -[[User:150.253.70.55|150.253.70.55]] 17:51, 27 April 2006 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Last Autobot

2006-04-14T17:59:41Z

150.253.70.55:

As far as I can see, there are three possibilities.

o The Last Autobot inspired the creation of Vector Prime.

o The Last Autobot IS Vector Prime, in that continuity.

o The Last Autobot and Vector Prime are seperate beings, and the similarities are evidence that Primus doesn't have a lot of imagination.

Reguardless, there doesnt seem to be enough evidence one way or the other to say that the Last Autobot is, or is not, one of Primus's Thirteen.

: I don't think Vector Prime and the Last Autobot are the same guy, mostly because they have such separate powers and different jobs. Vector Prime's job is to maintain the time-space continuum and he can hop between dimensions. The Last Autobot was supposed to watch after Primus' creations after Primus was gone, and he can apparently resurrect Autobots from the dead at will. Other than their face and general altmode design, they're not very similar. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:36, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

...they look nothign alike. One slept below cybertron awaiting the day agter Primus's death,a nd one skips actively around dimensions.

since Defensor was ALSo known at one point as 'the Last Autobot,' I think we can logically conclude the term is banndied about, and TLA isn't either VP or Defensor. -17:59, 14 April 2006 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Cybershark

2006-04-13T16:36:36Z

150.253.70.55:

Wasn't sure what to do with Hammerstrike here. If you put his bio and Cybersharks next to each other it's pretty clear that they cribbed the whole thing: function, characteristics, heck even the last line which has been on all his specs in some form. With that much simmilarity it suggests to me they're definately the same character. But it's not "official" really. Thus I put it in itallics as a continuity note type thing. Folks cool with that solution? [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 11:12, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I didagree. Given the way TF's change names, it's entirely official. And it was alsmost certainly INTENTIONAL. Ben Yee's site includes (uh, somewhere) an bit about how BM Buzzsaw was suppsoed to be BW Buzzsaw,a nd was at one point goign to be labeled heroic Predacon, but was changed to Maximal to reduce confusion-- BM was a time of consciously revisiting past characters. (And bearign that in mind, when you look at the specs of the BM non-show Maximals, it's clear on almost every one which ones were meant to be Preds.)

In short- i reccomend removing the ambiguity aroudn the issues, because I feel there is none. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:52, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm cool with doing that myself, but folks seem rather picky about staying "official" with the wiki info, so I was just worried that if I made the page that way folks would jump down my throat about them not being 100% blatantly "officialy" the same guy.

If everyone else is cool with it I'll happily incorperate Hammerstrike into the actual entry.

Should they just get the one entry then? How are we handling Goldbug? Though this entry would have much less than that one. I mean giving Hammerstrike his own would be rather redundant if all that goes on it is "BM version of BW Cybershark". [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 15:18, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

:I think there's enough evidence to say BW Cybershark and Hammerstrike are the same guy, until IDW's Beast Wars or whatever throws that out the window. (Though there were Hammerstrike "Sharkticons" in Wreckers, until they were recolored later, as the former was a mistake by Dreamwave. That should probably be noted.) And Goldbug redirects to Bumblebee, yes. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:14, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

:::i think we're using the standard- "What a reasonable person might think is presented with the evidence" on the Wiki. Thus- a reasonable person lookign at both specs side by site would probably conclude they're the same guy. For T-Wrecks though, it's more ambiguious, so it just gets an italicised note and redirects to T-Wrecks entry.

Imo, one of the strengths of wikipedia as a format is the ability to make those notes, since TF is fileld with lots of downright ODD and contradictory cross-connections. -[[User:150.253.70.55|150.253.70.55]] 16:36, 13 April 2006 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:The Transformers Trilogy

2006-04-13T02:00:22Z

150.253.70.55:

I know this Wiki isn't quite so enforcing of NPOV than Wikipedia itself, I think the original version of this article quite pushed it. I've done some cleanup here, but it could probably use more than what I've done, probably expansion. --[[User:Ratbat|Ratbat]] 15:46, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

*I haven't read through it thoroughly myself, but a few other people discussing it on IRC seemed to agree with you. Feel free to cut back the vitriol a bit. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:49, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

::I wrote the article, and i don't disagree it needed to be trimmed back. I happen to like the keepers trilogy (no objections to the unofficial name? Officially it's called 'the transformers trilogy,' which i felt was WAY too generic, I put Kt in quotes in the descriptor...) but I have no illusions that it's in any way... good. Since I expected an edit to be coming, I felt more free to trash its low points. (Unlike most 'the fans felt' statements, the reaction to the Keeprs Trilogy DOES seem to be near-unanimous?)

::<nowiki>*reads edit*</nowiki> ...you CUT ''while Optimus displayed the IQ of a particularly stupid housecat,'' and KEPT ''crapped out liscenced book''? I mean, it's not untrue, but... -[[User:150.253.70.55|150.253.70.55]] 21:11, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Why are the book titles underlined, but the titles of everything else in italics? It's my understanding that ''all'' titles should be italicized.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 22:33, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

:My opinion on how to format things is valid and must be respected, ''even if it flies in the face of established conventions.'' Don't oppress me! -[[User:Derik|Derik]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Transformers: Armada (cartoon)

2006-04-12T22:32:49Z

150.253.70.55:

Like the Energon article, I edited the "production" notes. They were riddled with opinionated bias that did not properly reflect the success or outcome of the overall product line. Lets keep opinions out of this guys. Armada wasn't a financial failure and plenty of fans, especially kids, bought the hell out of it. -Bodycount

May I cut and past Wikipedia's Armada article? X-BoB58

NO DAMN CUT AND PASTING FROM OTHER SOURCES. How many fucking times do you need to be TOLD this? --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 21:03, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

You know Wikipedia encourages such out-sourcing, right? you can set it up an article to live-mirror an article on another wiki? (I think it checks for changes every 24 hours or so.) Legally speaking it's aboveboard- content on other wiki's is public domain. (you know, assumign they didn't just C&P from a non-pd source.)

Or is it just a point of policy on this wiki that other wikis may mirror our content, but everything ON HERE originates centrally? -[[User:150.253.70.55|150.253.70.55]] 21:16, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

The latter, really. Especially since this wiki would be more expansive on just about any subject of TFs than the main Wikipedia. Plus, it does discourage C&Ping from non-public-domain stuff.<br>
Now, I KNOW that the claim of DW character models was made in an official capacity at some point, but I can't remember WHEN and by WHO. It's been what, four years now? This is driving me up the wall. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 21:19, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

You pretty much nailed it with the second part, [[User:150.253.70.55|150.253.70.55]]. We ''can'' legally use Wikipedia's content... but this isn't Wikipedia, and hopefully, we'd like to have articles on this wiki end up being different from ones you'd find there. Wikipedia, as much as it's wonderful, has a very different perspective on TF things than we do here; and not only does it just reflect better on our part if our content is original, but it actually provides a far more useful resource. If someone wants to look at what Wikipedia says about a given subject, then let them go to Wikipedia.

Although as just a side note, Wikipedia or this Wiki aren't public domain: they're released under GFDL, which basically sums up to "you can do whatever you want with it, so long as you let others do the same, and give credit". It's not quite just semantics, since if we wanted to copy Wikipedia content (WE DON'T), it'd have to be credited as such.--[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 21:29, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

...and because it means we give up any control on derived work created by someone usign TT1 content. (I wasn't disagreeing w/ the idea that everything originate on this wiki, merely seeking if this was actual policy or a lack of understanding of the possible relationships involved, legally and technicly.) -[[User:150.253.70.55|150.253.70.55]] 22:32, 12 April 2006 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Vector Sigma

2006-04-12T22:29:40Z

150.253.70.55:

This is '''entirely''' speculation:

Vector Sigma MAY have originally been one of the other Thirteen original Transformers constructed by Primus before he became the planet Cybertron.

First, we have the quote "I am Vector Sigma. Before Cybertron was, I was". This would allow both Primus and Vector Sigma to exist in the same timeline.

Secondly, we have the similarity in names between Vector Prime and Vector Sigma. At this stage, the only other of the Thirteen we know of is "The Fallen", who's original name is lost to (or rather, was removed from) the ages.

Potentially, Vector Sigma's alt mode could have been that of a computer system, and the ability (as well as the need, or desire) to transform lost over time.

As I said, speculation bordering on manic fanfiction, which is why it's here on the discussion page, rather than in the article. Comments? Proof against?

*IIRC Vecter Sigma looked the same in Headmasters, the pic you have is just it's chamber as viewed from the outside. Perhaps we can add something about the Oricle being a quint creation X-BoB58

X-BoB is right about that first picture just being the outer chamber. I've added a picture of the computer itself. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 06:56, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

----
In Robots in Disguise, Optimus Prime mentions that Vector Sigma chose him to carry the Matrix. Should we mention that here, or should there be a separate Vector Sigma (RiD) entry? Everything else on this page is cumulative across several shows in one single continuity, so it would be out of place in that regard... but the throw-away line in RiD isn't exactly an article-filling piece of information. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 09:29, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Probably just add a note to the end of the current article then, as it is currently - if something turns up that nesecitates a longer RID specific article, it can always be moved later. - TTK

In Nippon, Hightower once served as a guard for vector Sigma- but I dont' think, with the way CR fot filtered into RiD, that's th sort of thing you'd mention here, even though the Build team came over relatively intact- it'd goon Hightower's individual page as a note about a bit of character history from is JP version. -D-rok<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Transformers: Armada (cartoon)

2006-04-12T21:16:12Z

150.253.70.55:

Talk:The Transformers Trilogy

2006-04-12T21:11:49Z

150.253.70.55:

I know this Wiki isn't quite so enforcing of NPOV than Wikipedia itself, I think the original version of this article quite pushed it. I've done some cleanup here, but it could probably use more than what I've done, probably expansion. --[[User:Ratbat|Ratbat]] 15:46, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

*I haven't read through it thoroughly myself, but a few other people discussing it on IRC seemed to agree with you. Feel free to cut back the vitriol a bit. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:49, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

::I wrote the article, and i don't disagree it needed to be trimmed back. I happen to like the keepers trilogy (no objections to the unofficial name? Officially it's called 'the transformers trilogy,' which i felt was WAY too generic, I put Kt in quotes in the descriptor...) but I have no illusions that it's in any way... good. Since I expected an edit to be coming, I felt more free to trash its low points. (Unlike most 'the fans felt' statements, the reaction to the Keeprs Trilogy DOES seem to be near-unanimous?)

::<nowiki>*reads edit*</nowiki> ...you CUT ''while Optimus displayed the IQ of a particularly stupid housecat,'' and KEPT ''crapped out liscenced book''? I mean, it's not untrue, but... -[[User:150.253.70.55|150.253.70.55]] 21:11, 12 April 2006 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Template:Hastak

2006-04-07T23:06:54Z

150.253.70.55: Strengthened

<div style="margin:0 1em; padding:.5em; background:#f7f8ff; border:thin solid #aaa">
This image © Hasbro, Takaratomy, or both. Low resolution images are used to illustrate a product or character on '''Teletraan-1: The Transformers Wiki''' under the [[Wikipedia:fair use|fair use]] provision of [[Wikipedia:United States copyright law|United States copyright law.]] See [[Teletran-1: The Transformers Wiki:Copyrights|Copyrights]].
</div>
<noinclude>[[Category:Template]]</noinclude>

MediaWiki:Community Portal

2006-04-07T23:02:55Z

150.253.70.55: /* COPYRIGHT INFORMATION IS IMPORTANT */

'''Please look at the section about copyright tags at the bottom.''' --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 04:26, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I got Ben Yee's permision to use some of his texts via E-mail
Ben Yee said... "Please use only certain text (not say, entire episode reviews or anything like that) and credit my site accordingly. Thanks!"
X-BoB58

Do we know who has administrative powers on this Wiki? --[[User:ItsWalky]]

There's been a vandal who's screwed around with a few pages, and this is probably going to come up fairly often. The wikipedia page on reverting[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Revert] is something that most people should read, so you know how to put things back to how they were, when something like that happens aggain. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 03:04, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah I reverted the Main Page after someone replaced it with a message insulting the intelligence of this Wiki.-Shadow Mask Prime

==Contact in case of problems==

As you haven't an active admin at the moment, I've left contact information on [[User:Sannse|my user page]] and will call in regularly to see if you need any help. If anyone knows ''why'' someone is blanking pages, that would be useful. Are there copyright issues? Has stuff been copied without full (and GFDL compatible) permission? If so, we may have to remove and rewrite the pages. I'll pop back tomorrow to see if there has been more blanking. -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 16:12, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

==That awful picture and the name==

Although secondary to the vandalism, we have an admin-type who can deal with the problems left by the creator. There's a couple locked things that we can't change:
* The title is misspelled. The computer's name is "Teletraan-1", and we should really have the title reflect a name that 'isn't' the wrong spelling. We fixed it on the main page, but it still shows up in the titles of every page.
* The wiki symbol in the top left is horrendously ugly and kinda embarassing. And not only is it hideous, but it also reflects the same problem as the title: Teletraan-1 is spelled incorrectly. I made [[Media:Potential-wiki.png|a new image]] for it, but it's not too great either, and I'd like to invite any artist to do something better.
We should get some other people's thoughts on both these matters. If we can get some sort of consensus going, we can probably get both of these matters fixed. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 18:36, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Besides the spelling, I don't see anything wrong with the logo. Heck, I'd be downright surprised to see anything else. Well, with the possible exception of the Decepticon logo.--[[User:OctopusPrime|Octopus Prime- King of the Road!]] 22:52, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

What about that spinning logo that goes from bot to con to max to pred to blendtron etc. etc. etc. X-BoB58

:For the title issue - I'll contact our one of our technical support staff. It's not something that can be changed on-wiki (he should be on-line soon). For the logo - I've unprotected the logo for a while, so you can chose what should go there and upload. All you need to do is upload to [[:Image:wiki.png]]. It does have to be a .png image, so the animated logo idea is out I'm afraid. If you want to try changing your favicon ([[:Image:favicon.ico]]: [[Image:favicon.ico]]) then I can unprotect that too for a while.

I definitely fall in the "don't like the logo" camp, so here's one proposal for a change: [[:Image:Newlogo-wiki.png|new logo proposal]]. [[User:Aurax|Aurax]] 16:59, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I propose an Art Contest or something similar. -X-boB58
* Well, anyone is welcome to and definitely encouraged to make a new logo to replace the old one; just upload it and post it here if you do. If we get any more people proposing replacements, we can just put it to a vote. Although I do personally like Aurax's a lot. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 00:09, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I also like the logo Aurax made, although probably we should pick between "Teletraan-1" and "Teletraan One". The logo spells out the number, whereas it's written elsewhere with the digit.

--[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 03:10, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
*Since it's likely easier to change the text in the logo than it is to change the name of the wiki (again), I made a new version of the graphic file. It fixes the spelling and addresses some text readability issues that I had with the original, stuff that I was gonna fix anyway. [[:Image:Newlogo-digit-wiki.png|For your renewed consideration.]] [[User:Aurax|Aurax]] 03:59, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
** I've replaced the old logo with yours, as there weren't objections; but if anyone opposes it now, please feel free to post to that effect. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 03:06, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

While were on the topic of apearances what about a new skin, Idunno something more "transformery"

To be utterly and stupednously anal, the computer's name is actually spelled "Teletraan I," with a roman numeral and no hyphen. - Chris McFeely, 17th March 2006

==New Admins==

The other thing to consider is who should be your new admin(s). You all know your wiki better than I, so any suggestions? Who has experience of admin buttons (not vital, they are pretty easy to follow), is active on this wiki, and knows the subject well enough to know what is valid and what is vandalism? The main criteria as far as I'm concerned are some good sense and a lot of enthusiasm :) -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 13:35, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I fit most of the requirements, but don't know wiki's particular admin setup. If you say they're easy to follow, then I suppose they can't be much different from admin-ing elsewhere. If anything, I just want to keep that one guy from deleting whole pages. I also think [[User:Suki Brits]] would make a good Admin, if she would want to be. --[[User:ItsWalky]]

I had just typed up that I'd also nominate Walky as an admin when he edited his post-- oops, I guess that seems sorta hollow now. Regardless, he's probably the best choice for an admin here, as he certainly knows what he's doing, and has put lot of time into this already; definitely fits the requirements.

And I wouldn't mind myself, either. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 18:13, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Having seen Walky's posts and conversations thus far, I'd trust him to be a fair and enthusiastic admin --[[User:G.B. Blackrock]] [[User talk:G.B. Blackrock|(talk)]]

I think that Suki seems to know the system better --[[User:X-BoB58|X-BoB58]]

"NO The Constructicons Form DEVESTATOR! The Most Powerful Robot! They Should Rule!"

I honestly can't believe I'm the first one to use that quote here. I mean, come on, really. Get your heads in the game.

That Said:
In all honesty, I agree with the mutual respect goin to'ard Walky or Suki being Admin. Since Walky's added more to the Wiki then everyone else put together, and Suki seems to have done much of the admin-lite duties round here.

Heck, I vote for Suki.--[[User:OctopusPrime|Octopus Prime- King of the Road!]] 22:54, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

:I would gladly put my support behind Walky and/or Suki Brits as admins. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 06:09, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

:Walky and "Suki Brits" would be fine mods. FOR ME TO OVERTHROW. [[User:Hooper X|Hooper X]] 20:34, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

A nice bit of agreement here :) Walky and Suki Brits are now your admins. Let me know if you need any help at all -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 12:46, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, thanks, everyone. Hopefully I won't actually need to do many admin type functions, but I'll be glad to whenever I can. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 17:24, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

==Deletion policy==

One thing that I'd really rather not happen to this is we get [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_official_policy bogged down by too many policies and rules], since that's distracting from the real purpose of the whole thing. We're all big kids, if someone's not doing things right, we don't need to redirect them to endless piles of policy pages. But with that said, there are a couple things we do need to deal with: like deleting crap. There's a lot of [[My Huge Cock|garbage]] that needs to go, but I don't want to delete something accidentally that others think should be kept.

My proposal: we make a page for listing pages that should be deleted, with dates appended beside each nominee for deletion, and a <nowiki>{{tobedeleted}}</nowiki> tag put at the top of the page to be deleted itself. If nobody objects after three days, the page'll be deleted. Obviously, anyone can nominate a page to be deleted.

Does this sound like a good idea? --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 17:36, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Sounds fair to me.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 18:11, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

==Whats the advantage of a catagory over a list?==
I liked the lists

==COPYRIGHT INFORMATION IS IMPORTANT==
As some might have noticed, we've had [[Talk:Vector Prime: In the Beginning|an image]] removed due to copyright issues; if at all possible, I'd like to avoid that sort of thing happening again. I've drafted up two additional copyright templates, [[Template:Comiccover]] and [[Template:Comicinterior]], the uses of which should be fairly obvious. I'd like for people to overview these to make sure they're acceptable, and after that, ''please'' start putting them on any applicable pages.

As Wikipedia demonstrates, fair use is a pretty neat blanket that we can fit under, but we need to actually start labeling these images appropriately, or we're going to get more issues coming up. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 04:26, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

:The Image Copyright template is... incomplete. Not all images are the sole domain of Hasbro. This is sufficient for, say, stills from most cartoons- but IIRC part of the reason The Ultimate guide couldn't cover riD properly was the visual was co-owned by Disney because they bought out Saban. Do we have a general 'copyrighted image, fair use' template that DOESN'T say Hasbro? (That'd be sufficient so long as the image source is attributed correctly in the text. the problem, legally speaking, arises if you cite a template saying hasbro owns somethign they do not- like a picture of Pepsiman. Plus yhere's some stuff hasbro DOESN'T own that Takara does that we'll have/do have snaps of.) -[[user:Derik|D-rok]]
::I agree, which is why I didn't mention [[Template:Image Copyright]] in that post; it's not particularly good. I have, however, drafted up two additional tags which should be used for everything else, providing they're acceptable: [[Template:Hastak]] and [[Template:Fairuse]], which should cover virtually all images. The "this image belongs to Hasbro" template should definitely be depreciated. Any comments? --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 20:13, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
:::From an organizational standpoint this is good, but the language of the first is too passive, and the section too loose and confusing. but that's the kind of thing easy to work with later. LEGALLY speaking, they say the right things they need to. -[[User:Derik|Derik]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Template talk:Hastak

2006-04-07T22:59:47Z

150.253.70.55:

Is "Takaratomy" how they wish to be referred to? Given the two-line logo we've seen, I'd have guessed "Takara Tomy," or "TakaraTomy," or maybe even "Takara-Tomy." But I'd definitely have thought that "Tomy" would still be capitalized.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 15:10, 7 April 2006 (PDT)

:I think as-is is reasonable for the moment. It's not like the template is difficult to change as we learn a correct, different phrasing.
:more at issue here is the weak language. "Gosh mister, we THINK we can do this, if it's alright with you." No, you ASSERT your rights- "We DO have a complete right to se this image under fair use!" The prior invites somene to tell yout o pull their images juzt 'cuz they feel like it- the latter says "You have to make a case that this excedes fair use, because up to a point we ARE COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED in using your images." -[[User:150.253.70.55|150.253.70.55]] 22:59, 7 April 2006 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

MediaWiki:Community Portal

2006-04-07T17:44:01Z

150.253.70.55: /* COPYRIGHT INFORMATION IS IMPORTANT */

'''Please look at the section about copyright tags at the bottom.''' --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 04:26, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I got Ben Yee's permision to use some of his texts via E-mail
Ben Yee said... "Please use only certain text (not say, entire episode reviews or anything like that) and credit my site accordingly. Thanks!"
X-BoB58

Do we know who has administrative powers on this Wiki? --[[User:ItsWalky]]

There's been a vandal who's screwed around with a few pages, and this is probably going to come up fairly often. The wikipedia page on reverting[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Revert] is something that most people should read, so you know how to put things back to how they were, when something like that happens aggain. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 03:04, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah I reverted the Main Page after someone replaced it with a message insulting the intelligence of this Wiki.-Shadow Mask Prime

==Contact in case of problems==

As you haven't an active admin at the moment, I've left contact information on [[User:Sannse|my user page]] and will call in regularly to see if you need any help. If anyone knows ''why'' someone is blanking pages, that would be useful. Are there copyright issues? Has stuff been copied without full (and GFDL compatible) permission? If so, we may have to remove and rewrite the pages. I'll pop back tomorrow to see if there has been more blanking. -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 16:12, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

==That awful picture and the name==

Although secondary to the vandalism, we have an admin-type who can deal with the problems left by the creator. There's a couple locked things that we can't change:
* The title is misspelled. The computer's name is "Teletraan-1", and we should really have the title reflect a name that 'isn't' the wrong spelling. We fixed it on the main page, but it still shows up in the titles of every page.
* The wiki symbol in the top left is horrendously ugly and kinda embarassing. And not only is it hideous, but it also reflects the same problem as the title: Teletraan-1 is spelled incorrectly. I made [[Media:Potential-wiki.png|a new image]] for it, but it's not too great either, and I'd like to invite any artist to do something better.
We should get some other people's thoughts on both these matters. If we can get some sort of consensus going, we can probably get both of these matters fixed. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 18:36, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Besides the spelling, I don't see anything wrong with the logo. Heck, I'd be downright surprised to see anything else. Well, with the possible exception of the Decepticon logo.--[[User:OctopusPrime|Octopus Prime- King of the Road!]] 22:52, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

What about that spinning logo that goes from bot to con to max to pred to blendtron etc. etc. etc. X-BoB58

:For the title issue - I'll contact our one of our technical support staff. It's not something that can be changed on-wiki (he should be on-line soon). For the logo - I've unprotected the logo for a while, so you can chose what should go there and upload. All you need to do is upload to [[:Image:wiki.png]]. It does have to be a .png image, so the animated logo idea is out I'm afraid. If you want to try changing your favicon ([[:Image:favicon.ico]]: [[Image:favicon.ico]]) then I can unprotect that too for a while.

I definitely fall in the "don't like the logo" camp, so here's one proposal for a change: [[:Image:Newlogo-wiki.png|new logo proposal]]. [[User:Aurax|Aurax]] 16:59, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I propose an Art Contest or something similar. -X-boB58
* Well, anyone is welcome to and definitely encouraged to make a new logo to replace the old one; just upload it and post it here if you do. If we get any more people proposing replacements, we can just put it to a vote. Although I do personally like Aurax's a lot. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 00:09, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I also like the logo Aurax made, although probably we should pick between "Teletraan-1" and "Teletraan One". The logo spells out the number, whereas it's written elsewhere with the digit.

--[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 03:10, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
*Since it's likely easier to change the text in the logo than it is to change the name of the wiki (again), I made a new version of the graphic file. It fixes the spelling and addresses some text readability issues that I had with the original, stuff that I was gonna fix anyway. [[:Image:Newlogo-digit-wiki.png|For your renewed consideration.]] [[User:Aurax|Aurax]] 03:59, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
** I've replaced the old logo with yours, as there weren't objections; but if anyone opposes it now, please feel free to post to that effect. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 03:06, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

While were on the topic of apearances what about a new skin, Idunno something more "transformery"

To be utterly and stupednously anal, the computer's name is actually spelled "Teletraan I," with a roman numeral and no hyphen. - Chris McFeely, 17th March 2006

==New Admins==

The other thing to consider is who should be your new admin(s). You all know your wiki better than I, so any suggestions? Who has experience of admin buttons (not vital, they are pretty easy to follow), is active on this wiki, and knows the subject well enough to know what is valid and what is vandalism? The main criteria as far as I'm concerned are some good sense and a lot of enthusiasm :) -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 13:35, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I fit most of the requirements, but don't know wiki's particular admin setup. If you say they're easy to follow, then I suppose they can't be much different from admin-ing elsewhere. If anything, I just want to keep that one guy from deleting whole pages. I also think [[User:Suki Brits]] would make a good Admin, if she would want to be. --[[User:ItsWalky]]

I had just typed up that I'd also nominate Walky as an admin when he edited his post-- oops, I guess that seems sorta hollow now. Regardless, he's probably the best choice for an admin here, as he certainly knows what he's doing, and has put lot of time into this already; definitely fits the requirements.

And I wouldn't mind myself, either. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 18:13, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Having seen Walky's posts and conversations thus far, I'd trust him to be a fair and enthusiastic admin --[[User:G.B. Blackrock]] [[User talk:G.B. Blackrock|(talk)]]

I think that Suki seems to know the system better --[[User:X-BoB58|X-BoB58]]

"NO The Constructicons Form DEVESTATOR! The Most Powerful Robot! They Should Rule!"

I honestly can't believe I'm the first one to use that quote here. I mean, come on, really. Get your heads in the game.

That Said:
In all honesty, I agree with the mutual respect goin to'ard Walky or Suki being Admin. Since Walky's added more to the Wiki then everyone else put together, and Suki seems to have done much of the admin-lite duties round here.

Heck, I vote for Suki.--[[User:OctopusPrime|Octopus Prime- King of the Road!]] 22:54, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

:I would gladly put my support behind Walky and/or Suki Brits as admins. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 06:09, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

:Walky and "Suki Brits" would be fine mods. FOR ME TO OVERTHROW. [[User:Hooper X|Hooper X]] 20:34, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

A nice bit of agreement here :) Walky and Suki Brits are now your admins. Let me know if you need any help at all -- [[User:Sannse|sannse]] [[User talk:Sannse|(talk)]] 12:46, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, thanks, everyone. Hopefully I won't actually need to do many admin type functions, but I'll be glad to whenever I can. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 17:24, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

==Deletion policy==

One thing that I'd really rather not happen to this is we get [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_official_policy bogged down by too many policies and rules], since that's distracting from the real purpose of the whole thing. We're all big kids, if someone's not doing things right, we don't need to redirect them to endless piles of policy pages. But with that said, there are a couple things we do need to deal with: like deleting crap. There's a lot of [[My Huge Cock|garbage]] that needs to go, but I don't want to delete something accidentally that others think should be kept.

My proposal: we make a page for listing pages that should be deleted, with dates appended beside each nominee for deletion, and a <nowiki>{{tobedeleted}}</nowiki> tag put at the top of the page to be deleted itself. If nobody objects after three days, the page'll be deleted. Obviously, anyone can nominate a page to be deleted.

Does this sound like a good idea? --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 17:36, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Sounds fair to me.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 18:11, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

==Whats the advantage of a catagory over a list?==
I liked the lists

==COPYRIGHT INFORMATION IS IMPORTANT==
As some might have noticed, we've had [[Talk:Vector Prime: In the Beginning|an image]] removed due to copyright issues; if at all possible, I'd like to avoid that sort of thing happening again. I've drafted up two additional copyright templates, [[Template:Comiccover]] and [[Template:Comicinterior]], the uses of which should be fairly obvious. I'd like for people to overview these to make sure they're acceptable, and after that, ''please'' start putting them on any applicable pages.

As Wikipedia demonstrates, fair use is a pretty neat blanket that we can fit under, but we need to actually start labeling these images appropriately, or we're going to get more issues coming up. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 04:26, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

:The Image Copyright template is... incomplete. Not all images are the sole domain of Hasbro. This is sufficient for, say, stills from most cartoons- but IIRC part of the reason The Ultimate guide couldn't cover riD properly was the visual was co-owned by Disney because they bought out Saban. Do we have a general 'copyrighted image, fair use' template that DOESN'T say Hasbro? (That'd be sufficient so long as the image source is attributed correctly in the text. the problem, legally speaking, arises if you cite a template saying hasbro owns somethign they do not- like a picture of Pepsiman. Plus yhere's some stuff hasbro DOESN'T own that Takara does that we'll have/do have snaps of.) -[[user:Derik|D-rok]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Dreadwind (RID)

2006-04-07T15:14:19Z

150.253.70.55:

The magazine directs you tot he site to see picture of Dark Megawing Galvatron. The site no longer, um... exists. Anyone save them? Were they ever actually up? Does anyone have a better pic of the combined mode? (This was straight on,a nd doesn't show off some of the cleverness with Clench, for instance.)

There was LINE ART of the combined mode, damnit, and it was totalluy covered by the pics showing the transformation sequence. :p Does Megazarak's bio make DW part of his strike force in MZ's HOME reality, or in Universe whent hey've both been pulled there? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 11:37, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

:I don't think the pictures ever went up, no. But in clarifying at what point Sunstorm, et al were Megazarak's troops, I noticed his bio says he's a Minion of Unicron, not a Child of Primus, which I should change. (I was going off memories of Glen's plans, who thought it would be a neat idea to have Megazarak, the evilest Autobot-genocider ever, be on the side of good. Nice conflict between him and, say, Primal. Or hell, Defensor, the Last Autobot from Meg's universe. Imagine having to get along with him in that circumstance. But, profile says what it says.) But anyway. The bio implies that they were his troops in his original universe, by the wording, and also because they appear to be on opposite sides in Universe. So, no, I have no idea how the Powerlinx Battles fit into it. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 06:33, 7 April 2006 (PDT)

Unicron Battles, explicitly, not Powerlinks battles. Primus (presumably) granted Galvatron the Spark of combination during '''Armada'''. Which I think is... actually pretty darn cool. Or maybe Dreadwind and Co brought it from another universe? (They do seem to get around.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]]

:The combo form came from Ben Yee, I shoudl e-mail him and ask if he has pics of the version w/ tidal wave, maybe even the lineart. *does so* -[[User:Derik|Derik]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Karmen

2006-04-06T15:40:03Z

150.253.70.55:

When was this Letters-page from? It it was from 1990 or later, I'mg onna have to back Hooper's idea that both Toaster and Carmen's name are multi-level puns designed to evoke somethign sound/music related, because the Carmen Curlers are a dutch chior oreganization founded in 90 that got a lot of of press because it was one of Europe's first Gay/Lesbian groups, back when that was touchy. They toured and stuff. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:45, 6 April 2006 (PDT)

:Or it could just be a Bizet reference, dude. -hx

that would cover the musical reference, but she turns into a pair of curlers. Carmen's Curlers covera a musical reference PLUS her odd altmode. ...and it'd probably make her the first Transfomers lesbian. -[[User:150.253.70.55|150.253.70.55]] 15:40, 6 April 2006 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Jetfire (G1)

2006-04-05T21:28:37Z

150.253.70.55:

because this wiki is character-focal, not toy-focal, I think this entry should be listed as Skyfire, not Jetfire. he was Skyfire in every major continuity, ever. That his toy had a different name is a detail for a footnote. Add a redirect under jetfire. -D-rok<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Grimlock (G1)

2006-04-05T21:13:20Z

150.253.70.55: Funny hat!

{{disambig3|Grimlock}}
''Grimlock is an [[Autobot]] in [[Generation 1]] and a [[Maximal]] in the [[Beast Wars]] portion of the Generation 1 continuity.''

[[Image:Grimlockg1.jpg|right|thumb|Grimlock's drawing of himself.]]

'''Grimlock''' hates [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]. Optimus Prime is weak, friendly, and compassionate. Plus Prime's an intellectual, and Grimlock hates those types too, so much that he chooses to speak very poorly. Grimlock believes a leader should show his strength by attacking quickly and mercilessly. Optimus Prime will often reconsider or hesitate on a set of actions in the fear of possible casualties, both Transformer and [[human]] -- Grimlock sees this as cowardice. If Grimlock were in charge, he maintains, the war would have been over long ago.

Some Autobots wonder why Grimlock is even on their side. His disposition is much more suited towards the [[Decepticons]]. After all, he values power and strength over wisdom and compassion, and furthermore, he doesn't get along with any of the Autobots. (Especially [[Tracks (G1)|Tracks]].) It's been hypothesized that Grimlock just hates [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] more than he hates Optimus.

Grimlock is the leader of the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobot]]s, a small but very close team of misfits. It's been said that anyone who enters a battle with the Dinobots usually leaves it feet-first.

=Fiction=
===Marvel Comics Continuity===
===Animated Continuity===
'''Voice Actor:''' [[Greg Berger]] (US)

===Dreamwave Continuity===
===Beast Wars===
===Universe===

=Toys=
===Generation 1===
===Generation 2===
''Grimlock outranked Optimus Prime in the G2 toyline! (Prime had a rank of 9.) This seems to reflect their initial status-quo of the comic book, with Grimlock leading the main Autobot force before Prime's return.''
===Beast Wars===
===Beast Machines===
*[[T-Wrecks (BM)|T-Wrecks]] may have been intended to be a new form for Grimlock, based on the references in his tech spec bio to his Beast Wars "Attack Specialist" function and other hints. T-Wrecks' appearances in the Universe: The Wreckers comics seems to suggest he is a new character.
*T-Wrecks wears a silly hat.
===Universe===
*The [[Grimlock (UT)|Grimlock]] toy released in Energon was originally created by Hasbro for release as a special new-mold addition for the Universe toyline and was intended to represent Generation 1 Grimlock. However, it wasn't and it didn't.

=External Links=
[http://www.tfu.info/1985/Autobot/Grimlock/grimlock.htm Grimlock at TFU.info]

{{stub}}

[[Category: Autobots]]
[[Category: Autobot leaders]]
[[Category: Dinobots]]
[[Category: Generation 1]]
[[Category: Generation 2]]
[[Category: Beast Wars]]
[[Category: Universe]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Scrash (G1)

2006-04-05T20:47:53Z

150.253.70.55: rephrased for kicks

''Scrash is a [[Decepticon]] from the [[Operation Combination]] portion of [[Generation 1]].''

The mysterious '''Scrash''' commands the Decepticon forces sent to Earth to plunder it of energy from afar. His troops consist of the mighty [[Battle Gaia (G1)|Battle Gaia]] and the [[Jet Team]].

==Toy==
No toy of Scrash was ever released, nor did he actually ''appear'' in any fiction; he is mentioned in background material for Operation combination. The conjecture is that Scrash would have been the toy known as [[Skyquake (G1)|Skyquake]]. This use of the [[Turbomaster]]s and [[Predator]]s in the Operation Combination toyline seems to support this, as does the fact that in some European markets Skywaquake was sold under the name '''Crash.''' Skyquake was released in Japan in the European packaging, with only some legal information on the back changed to Japanese, which seems to bear the idea out.

[[Category: Decepticons]]
[[Category: Decepticon leaders]]
[[Category: Generation 1]]
[[Category: Operation: Combination]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Drone

2006-04-05T18:55:12Z

150.253.70.55:

This isn't a crit or anything but what are the Sentrybots?

I'm about 97% sure that they are the remote controlled robots that appear in "The Key to Vector Sigma". It's been a while since I saw that episode, so I might have gotten their name wrong. But they fit the description.--[[User:OctopusPrime|Octopus Prime- King of the Road!]] 01:09, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Both Seibertron.com and Transformersforever.com call them Centurion Drones.

Then it looks like I'm wrong about their name. Which is pretty well what I expected. At least I got most of the pronounciation right? High Five!

== Not all mini-vehicles are Drones ==

What this section is for is NON-SENTIENT yet clearly to some degree intelligent "manufactured" machines. Scamper is his own living character, as is Six-Gun, so they do not go in this section. Slammer, however, is not, so in he goes. (And until we see some evidence to suggest otherwise, that holds up for the Metrotitan versions of these characters as well.)

Scrapmetals aren't listed because they're "wildlife", which we should probably make a section for as well... Cybertron has critters, after all. The Production-Type Sidewayses are also debatable, as the cartoon gives every indication they're normal full individuals outside of lazy modelling.

M "I'd Err On The Side Of Caution There And Say They're Not Drones, Myself" Sipher

I'd agrea with you(about the Noismazes) If they wern't called Production-Type the term itself implies that they are "Manufactured"
P.S. Does Decepticon air Warrior refer to Seekers, cuse we know for sure that there not drones X-BoB58

In Dreamwave continuity, the Air Warriors are very much non-sentient drones. And again, the Sideways generics, it's not the BODIES that is the issue, it's the MINDS. The story sets up this idea that Planet X is more than just two guys and a ton of unliving drones. - M "Hello, Point" Sipher

Now why arn't the Breastforce's breasts considered "drones" they had the IQs of animals?
P.S. What abotu Dark ligerjack, I doubt he has a spark?
X-BoB58

We have no evidence that the Breast partners are not sentient. We have no evidence Nemesis Breaker is not sentient. And "spark" is not the defining characteristic, as the cartoon Dinobots, Technobots, and the Mini-Cons all lack sparks, yet we're not putting them in here.
[[User: M Sipher]]

*Run-Over/Sweep is described as Semi-automonous and as a part of nemsisis Prime, would Run-Over be a canadate? If so what about the darksaber Team?

==Droids?==
Well, since the Kilster added "Droids" to here, we now have everything in the existing Mechanoids/Drones ''category'' mis-listed. And, uh, the only way to fix that is to edit every single page one by one. I don't want to do that. Also, I want to make sure we're decided on this before we do that. Because that's a lot of work. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:08, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

That seems ungainly and, well, ultimately pointless, honestly. I mean, we could come up with general synonyms for the category till the sun goes nova. "Mechanoids/Drones", I beliive, adequately covers the field. If we REALLY want to get picky, we can put in the description or whatever the word "droid", but otherwise... -- [[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]]

Also, SwiftEagle just noted to us that "droid" is a word that George Lucas ''owns''. So, uh. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:27, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm. Well, the Mechanoids/Drones category itself hasn't been altered yet. Since it's my fault, I would gladly made all the needed edits myself if it were. I added Droids to the article title given it's use in "Sea Change", "Key to Vector Sigma," "War Dawn," and Orion Pax's bio. But I can see the argument for removing it from the title, if that decision were to be made. -- [[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]]

Lucas literally owns it, or figuratively owns it? 'cuz Rolelr is called a droid, not a drone, and he peeps just like artoo... -[[User:Derik|Derik]]

Literally owns it. Calling something a droid is up there with calling generic photo-copying "Xeroxing," using a "Band-aid" when it's just an offbrand adhesive strip, naming all gelatin "JELL-O," or dubbing your Marvel Megamorphs a "Transformer." --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:34, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
:Since you bring it up, I should also add "Thermos," which is a name brand, but which has gotten to be so heavily identified with that type of item, that generic use of the term now holds up in court, and Thermos (the company) has little power to restrict use. I think "Kleenex" may be in a similar state. So it may be that Lucas can't do much about "droids" even if he wants to. (But I'd rather not put that to the test.)--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 17:15, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
:that's facinating/appaling. However, droids Do exist as a term interal to Transformers, so where does that go/what are they? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:54, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I have yet to see a good description, in tf of abot ANYWHERE ELSE of what distingishes a droid from a drone. especially since TF has self-willed drones. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:52, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I argue that Autobot-X should NOT be on this list. Look at Binaltech Prowl. Or the Mini-cons, who came from human souls? (though are now sparks, I gather.) Well, it's something for dicussion.
:Not recalling the cartoon terribly well, is there any argument to be made for Autobot-X's function ''besides'' serving as host to Spike's mind? Because as Spike, Autobot-X most definitely does NOT qualify, but separate from Spike, it might.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 17:23, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
::[http://bwtf.com/binaltech/prowl/booklet.shtml Read This] The 'Spike' part of Autobot Spike serves the same function as as Spark.-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:54, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
:: It's been a while since I saw the cartoon, but I'm pretty damn sure Autobot X was built BEFORE Spike had his little accident. Sparkplug made him because he wanted to make a Transformer like a big boy! -- [[User: M Sipher|M Sipher]]
:::This is my understanding, too. Perhaps I should have been more clear. Given the lack of screen time of "pre-Spike" Autobot-X, is there enough argument to be made for X as a "non-sentient mechanoid" that we should include it here? My guess would be that there is, but that some disclaimer needs to be placed near any mention of X in a list like this.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 20:14, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
::::I see this refers to Autobot X, not Autobot Spike. I retract my complaint. And no, i dont' think there needs to be a distinction made ont he list, it'll be clear in the entry. Though maybe someoen who is not-me might want to stub it and make such a distinction now while we're thinking of it?-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:30, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I added Full_tilt who is ID'd as a humanoid drone Trypticon extends his consciousness through in DW continuity. Interestingly- he's not his own ID in ANY continuity I could find, unless he is int he manga. (which he may be, I don't have it handy.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:59, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Any more thoughts on whether Droids should stay in the title, and if it does whether the Mechanoids/Drones category should be changed to match this article? They probably should be the same, either way. Like I said before, if the category title ''is'' changed, because I was the one who changed this article I'd be willing to go through the articles in the category and make the needed edits, pasting in "/Droids" on the end of category link. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 09:31, 5 April 2006 (PDT)

*I am voting against. "Droids" are a specific kind of Mechanoid/Drone, and the category name should be as blanketing a term as possible. Adding "Droids" to it means we have to add every other non-sentient terminology to it as well, and I'm not welcoming having a Mechanoid/Drone/Droid/Mech/Scout/Spy/Pod/Ninja-Robot-Built-To-Benefit-Mankind/Decoy/Cyberbee category, when "Mechanoid/Drone" encompasses all. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:57, 5 April 2006 (PDT)

::I'd like to see a subtitle on this section that basically says "Unsparked robots, self-willed and non." I'd liek this because (and trust me I looked) Roller was never identified as a Drone, despite the MANY times he's been described, he's caleld a Droid. And I'd like to avoid the appearance of imposing such a descriptor on him since the conspicuious absence of the term drone may indicate Rolelr doesnt' meet the technical requirements of it. (whatever they may be.) -[[User:150.253.70.55|150.253.70.55]] 18:28, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
:::According to some web searches, though it's an abbreviated form of "android" which is specifically human-shaped robots, "droid" means a robot of any shape that emphasizes function over form. And, yeah, the dictionary.com definition notes that the term is owned by Lucas. As such, that means there must be a generic term we should be able to use in its place, like "medical adhesive strip" instead of "Band-Aid." I nominate "mechanoid" to be this term. Roller, for instance, surely falls under mechanoid. (A drone is a machine operated by remote control. This is not Roller, who has his own limited intelligence.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 18:50, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

::::The Diagnostic Drone is a machine operated by remote control?!?<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Drone

2006-04-05T18:28:42Z

150.253.70.55:

This isn't a crit or anything but what are the Sentrybots?

I'm about 97% sure that they are the remote controlled robots that appear in "The Key to Vector Sigma". It's been a while since I saw that episode, so I might have gotten their name wrong. But they fit the description.--[[User:OctopusPrime|Octopus Prime- King of the Road!]] 01:09, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Both Seibertron.com and Transformersforever.com call them Centurion Drones.

Then it looks like I'm wrong about their name. Which is pretty well what I expected. At least I got most of the pronounciation right? High Five!

== Not all mini-vehicles are Drones ==

What this section is for is NON-SENTIENT yet clearly to some degree intelligent "manufactured" machines. Scamper is his own living character, as is Six-Gun, so they do not go in this section. Slammer, however, is not, so in he goes. (And until we see some evidence to suggest otherwise, that holds up for the Metrotitan versions of these characters as well.)

Scrapmetals aren't listed because they're "wildlife", which we should probably make a section for as well... Cybertron has critters, after all. The Production-Type Sidewayses are also debatable, as the cartoon gives every indication they're normal full individuals outside of lazy modelling.

M "I'd Err On The Side Of Caution There And Say They're Not Drones, Myself" Sipher

I'd agrea with you(about the Noismazes) If they wern't called Production-Type the term itself implies that they are "Manufactured"
P.S. Does Decepticon air Warrior refer to Seekers, cuse we know for sure that there not drones X-BoB58

In Dreamwave continuity, the Air Warriors are very much non-sentient drones. And again, the Sideways generics, it's not the BODIES that is the issue, it's the MINDS. The story sets up this idea that Planet X is more than just two guys and a ton of unliving drones. - M "Hello, Point" Sipher

Now why arn't the Breastforce's breasts considered "drones" they had the IQs of animals?
P.S. What abotu Dark ligerjack, I doubt he has a spark?
X-BoB58

We have no evidence that the Breast partners are not sentient. We have no evidence Nemesis Breaker is not sentient. And "spark" is not the defining characteristic, as the cartoon Dinobots, Technobots, and the Mini-Cons all lack sparks, yet we're not putting them in here.
[[User: M Sipher]]

*Run-Over/Sweep is described as Semi-automonous and as a part of nemsisis Prime, would Run-Over be a canadate? If so what about the darksaber Team?

==Droids?==
Well, since the Kilster added "Droids" to here, we now have everything in the existing Mechanoids/Drones ''category'' mis-listed. And, uh, the only way to fix that is to edit every single page one by one. I don't want to do that. Also, I want to make sure we're decided on this before we do that. Because that's a lot of work. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:08, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

That seems ungainly and, well, ultimately pointless, honestly. I mean, we could come up with general synonyms for the category till the sun goes nova. "Mechanoids/Drones", I beliive, adequately covers the field. If we REALLY want to get picky, we can put in the description or whatever the word "droid", but otherwise... -- [[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]]

Also, SwiftEagle just noted to us that "droid" is a word that George Lucas ''owns''. So, uh. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:27, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm. Well, the Mechanoids/Drones category itself hasn't been altered yet. Since it's my fault, I would gladly made all the needed edits myself if it were. I added Droids to the article title given it's use in "Sea Change", "Key to Vector Sigma," "War Dawn," and Orion Pax's bio. But I can see the argument for removing it from the title, if that decision were to be made. -- [[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]]

Lucas literally owns it, or figuratively owns it? 'cuz Rolelr is called a droid, not a drone, and he peeps just like artoo... -[[User:Derik|Derik]]

Literally owns it. Calling something a droid is up there with calling generic photo-copying "Xeroxing," using a "Band-aid" when it's just an offbrand adhesive strip, naming all gelatin "JELL-O," or dubbing your Marvel Megamorphs a "Transformer." --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:34, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
:Since you bring it up, I should also add "Thermos," which is a name brand, but which has gotten to be so heavily identified with that type of item, that generic use of the term now holds up in court, and Thermos (the company) has little power to restrict use. I think "Kleenex" may be in a similar state. So it may be that Lucas can't do much about "droids" even if he wants to. (But I'd rather not put that to the test.)--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 17:15, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
:that's facinating/appaling. However, droids Do exist as a term interal to Transformers, so where does that go/what are they? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:54, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I have yet to see a good description, in tf of abot ANYWHERE ELSE of what distingishes a droid from a drone. especially since TF has self-willed drones. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:52, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I argue that Autobot-X should NOT be on this list. Look at Binaltech Prowl. Or the Mini-cons, who came from human souls? (though are now sparks, I gather.) Well, it's something for dicussion.
:Not recalling the cartoon terribly well, is there any argument to be made for Autobot-X's function ''besides'' serving as host to Spike's mind? Because as Spike, Autobot-X most definitely does NOT qualify, but separate from Spike, it might.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 17:23, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
::[http://bwtf.com/binaltech/prowl/booklet.shtml Read This] The 'Spike' part of Autobot Spike serves the same function as as Spark.-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:54, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
:: It's been a while since I saw the cartoon, but I'm pretty damn sure Autobot X was built BEFORE Spike had his little accident. Sparkplug made him because he wanted to make a Transformer like a big boy! -- [[User: M Sipher|M Sipher]]
:::This is my understanding, too. Perhaps I should have been more clear. Given the lack of screen time of "pre-Spike" Autobot-X, is there enough argument to be made for X as a "non-sentient mechanoid" that we should include it here? My guess would be that there is, but that some disclaimer needs to be placed near any mention of X in a list like this.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 20:14, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
::::I see this refers to Autobot X, not Autobot Spike. I retract my complaint. And no, i dont' think there needs to be a distinction made ont he list, it'll be clear in the entry. Though maybe someoen who is not-me might want to stub it and make such a distinction now while we're thinking of it?-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:30, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I added Full_tilt who is ID'd as a humanoid drone Trypticon extends his consciousness through in DW continuity. Interestingly- he's not his own ID in ANY continuity I could find, unless he is int he manga. (which he may be, I don't have it handy.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:59, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Any more thoughts on whether Droids should stay in the title, and if it does whether the Mechanoids/Drones category should be changed to match this article? They probably should be the same, either way. Like I said before, if the category title ''is'' changed, because I was the one who changed this article I'd be willing to go through the articles in the category and make the needed edits, pasting in "/Droids" on the end of category link. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 09:31, 5 April 2006 (PDT)

*I am voting against. "Droids" are a specific kind of Mechanoid/Drone, and the category name should be as blanketing a term as possible. Adding "Droids" to it means we have to add every other non-sentient terminology to it as well, and I'm not welcoming having a Mechanoid/Drone/Droid/Mech/Scout/Spy/Pod/Ninja-Robot-Built-To-Benefit-Mankind/Decoy/Cyberbee category, when "Mechanoid/Drone" encompasses all. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:57, 5 April 2006 (PDT)

::I'd like to see a subtitle on this section that basically says "Unsparked robots, self-willed and non." I'd liek this because (and trust me I looked) Roller was never identified as a Drone, despite the MANY times he's been described, he's caleld a Droid. And I'd like to avoid the appearance of imposing such a descriptor on him since the conspicuious absence of the term drone may indicate Rolelr doesnt' meet the technical requirements of it. (whatever they may be.) -[[User:150.253.70.55|150.253.70.55]] 18:28, 5 April 2006 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Drone

2006-04-03T16:29:20Z

150.253.70.55:

Talk:Thirteen

2006-04-03T13:42:48Z

150.253.70.55:

Are the first 13 all "continuity singularities" as Primus and Unicron are? One version existing across all realities? Vector Prime definately seems to be, and Maccadam as well if you include "Prime Spark" as cannon. Thoughts? [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 11:51, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

How can Unicron jump continuities wih all his different HISTORIES? he spent MILLIONS OF YEARS as Cybertrons' MOON fergods sake!

The whole singularities thing is a godawful mess. You have to start acceptign that Unicron, who DEMONSTRABLY spends tens or tens of MILLIONs of years in individual continuities is time-travelign as WELL as jumping continuities. Which is fine, but for some reason in the Armada comic he doesn't, and no one's ever even HEARD of Unicron before, he's a completely external threat with no history in this universe.

But then, I think brad Mick intended Thundercracker to be one of the 13, so what do I know? It's not like I have a decent track record at pattern recognition or anything... ''*cough*predaconpolitics*cough*''

Also, IS Primus a singularity across all continuities? I could have sworn we saw him DIE. ''I hate the sucky TFU-type Multiverse! it sucks, it sucks '''so hard''' Gregory!'' -[[User:Derik|Derik]]

...why is it impossible that no one's ever heard of Unicron in the Armada universe until he shows up? It makes perfect sense to me. Hell, the only person who's ever even investigated or shown more than a little interest Cybertron's past in the Armadaverse is Overrun, and he was from another universe anyway. If there's only one Unicron and infinite universes, of COURSE he's going to be new to some of them! Derik, start making sense. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:27, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

but if he's new to SOMe of them, how is he ancient in MANY of them? :~( does he exist simultaneously in the past of many universes? The marvel US Comic and Aramda toon BOTh, for instance, have Unicron at different locations in space in the year 1977. Is he time-traveling?

I guess mostly i just bitch because I think it sucks. -[[User:Derik|Derik]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Sideswipe (G1)

2006-04-03T12:50:16Z

150.253.70.55:

I didn't cut and past that bio, and where else are we going to discuss that bio's contibution to canon? [[User:X-BoB58|X-BoB58]] 02:50, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Just... you know, a crazy suggestion, but perhaps on a page for the character who's inhabiting Sideswipe's spare body? He's a separate dude, so he gets a separate page. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:56, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

There is some abiguity as to whether or not that whole "separate dude" thing is actually real, Walky. It's something I've been meaning to ask Doug/Ichikawa about for a while, actually.
ALSO, "e-hobby" is not a fiction. It's not a story. All it has is bios. IF e-hobby Sideswipe is in fact a nrew dude, then it goes on a new dude's page. If it's not, then the overview of that bio goes in the TOY section when the e-hobby release is discussed.
--[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]]

"ALSO, "e-hobby" is not a fiction."
It's still canon
"He's a separate dude"
That's the first I've heard of this theory, Care to eleaberate? I thought NY Lambor represented the new body that they put his spark into after he died(offscreen) in the movie?

What e-Hobby bio? the ones he and red Alert had ages ago? they reprented, IIRC, nto reissues but specifically later incarnations of the character, but they were the same characters. TFPulp had translations and their different cardart back in the day. -[[User:Derik|Derik]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Thirteen

2006-04-03T12:42:57Z

150.253.70.55:

Thirteen

2006-04-03T12:34:06Z

150.253.70.55: A3 Not manga, TVMag. And VS

When[[ Primus]] first created [[Cybertron]] he created a crew of '''13''' living robotic beings to man her. These beings, in imitation of Unicron's transformation abilities, were able to change their forms into the likeness of vehicles, weapons, and machinery. They were the first Transformers.

Many of the 13 died in a cataclismic first battle with Unicron, where he was sucked down into a black hole and trapped along with his accolyte known as [[The Fallen]], one of the 13 who had turned against his brothers and joined Unicron.

Of those that survived many abandoned their original functions and were lost to time. Only [[Vector Prime (UT)]] is known to still be following the path he was set upon by Primus.

== The 13 ==

The identities of the 13 remain shrouded in mystery.

'''Confirmed members are:'''

The Fallen (original name unknown)

Vector Prime

[[Prima]] ''(One story, [[Reaching the Omega Point]], mentions [[Primon]] not Prima as the first Matrix holder, but this is never refered to elsewhere and subsiquent material has stated that Prima WAS definately the first TF.)''

'''Possible hinted members are:'''

[[Maccadam]] (Rumor on Cybertron says that he is one of the 13 and that his bar exists outside regular space-time. The story [[Prime Spark]] from the TF: Legends anthology confirms this but is of questionable cannonical status.)

[[The Leige Maximo]] ''(G2 establishes he was created at the same time as the first Prime, but implies that this was perhaps unintended, so leaving open whether he should count. Confirmed in Simon Furman's Alignment story as one of the first 13, but the story is "unofficial" and of debatable canonicity.)''

Numerous other very ancient Transformers exist, including [[Alpha Trion]] (A3), [[Boltax]], [[The Keeper]], and the [[Last Autobot]] but none have been yet included in the ranks of the first 13, although a japanese timeline has A3 as the first Transformer successfully created by Vector Sigma.<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>