MediaWiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Fandom

2007-08-03T19:39:49Z

159.134.163.42:

That IP address was me. I figured since you have this entry just ''dripping'' with snark including "Bayformers", it should include the inexplicable fan belief that early G1 had more realistic representations of extraterrestrial robots, even though the toy engineers made them to look like the human-built piloted mecha they were in their original toy lines. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 18:30, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:Oooh. Your edit didn't say anything about extraterrestrials, so, I totally didn't know where you were going. I personally prefer the line more brief, without bringing that part in, but, I don't feel real strongly about it. If you put it back in I might edit the phrasing to make it more to my liking, though. :) --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 19:07, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I ''know'' that someone from Hasbro (Whatshername, the exec who used to work for Power Rangers?) mentioned at some point that they estimate that X% of Transformers toys are bought by adult collectors- and I ''think'' it was 20. That should probably be in here.

I admit, I find the tone of this article unnecessarily harsh. I'd like to see it either moderated, or to have [[Fans]] and [[Fandom]] made two separate articles, with most of the negative aspects assigned to fandom. (Which I think is a fair division of blame- you still hear stories of hardcore transfans who run into the occasional hardcore solo-fan who has no clue about the 'net, conventions etc. The ''really'' nasty negative aspects of fans are almost all ''group behaviors'' that feed on themselves and doesn't exist in individuals if a fan is removed from fandom.)

...oh my god, I just articulated a [[Wikipedia:Romanticism|romantacist]] belief in the fundamental goodness of humanity and the corrupting influence of society on individuals. '''KILL ME NOW! DO IT BEFORE I SPREAD PEACE AND LOVE ALL OVER THE WIKI!''' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:54, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

::::Was that Michelle Fields? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:44, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

::I also greatly dislike the tone of this article. It gives the impression that we here at this Wiki somehow stand separate and apart from the "fandom" which it sarcastically ridicules. Were it up to me, everything on this page but the short History section would be removed. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 02:46, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

:I find this article totally hilarious and that it contains quite a lot of truths. {{unsigned|210.49.121.202}}

I'm okay with the link. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 03:36, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I admit to being a little surprised at the negative reactions, as this is all stuff that's already written in various places on this wiki. Still, I recognize that if my only supporter is an anonymous string of numbers, I apparently just have a weird opinion on it. I just talked to Walky about it and he said the sarcastic "accomplishments"list could maybe be preserved if it were just a small part of a large, otherwise focusing-on-the-positive article. That sounds okay to me... I'd kind of like to keep at least ''some'' of the list in there, but, again, I seemingly have no perception of how vicious what I wrote is, so maybe it should be totally scrapped. For now I'll call shenanigans on myself while we decide what to do. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 03:54, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
:Keep it. I read some seriously ridiculous crap in the past week that makes this page DESERVE existence. Oh yeah, and it needs a mention of terrible fanfiction in there, since nothing is free from terrible fanfiction.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 05:35, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
:: This article is just full of win. Reading it totally made my day. I say keep it. [[User:Detour|Detour]] 06:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

:I don't have a problem witht he negativity of the article per-se... it just seems kinda ''down'' on fans unless there's some contrasting material to balance it out. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:51, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

::Pretty much all of the snark and negativity on display in the current version is depressingly close to the truth, but I for one would certainly like to see it balanced out with stuff about the more positive aspects of TF fandom. --[[User:TVsGrady|TVsGrady]] 00:17, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

::It currently bears an uncanny resemblence to Encyclopedia Dramatica. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 08:02, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

It has been my observation that other fandoms, particularly the GI Joe fandom (probably owing to TF's close relationship with Joe), think TF fans are absolutely fucking insane. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:48, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
:The Sonic The Hedgehog fandom makes Transformers, G. I. Joe or basically anyone else look like rank amateurs in the insanity department. I am dead serious as hilarious as it might sound. Death threats and talk of character rape is how you say "hello" over there.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 04:52, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I am in favor of the article staying in its present state, as a reminder against such foolish behavior. It made my day reading the Fandom section, and under the management's rule that "THE FUNNY STAYS.", it should be here. [[User:Ronimus Prime|Ronimus Prime]] 03:51, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I say keep it. It reminds fans not to take themselves too seriously. In fact, maybe even add a note on the whole "Who is Cyclonus" thing. [[User:67.160.13.149|67.160.13.149]] 22:39, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

This whole page sounds like another one of Walky's idiotic rants against the fandom. Snore. Why don't people make fun of the anti-fans like Walky more often, when the things they say and do are far more ridiculous as they can't be defended by "Well, he's a crazy fan"?

==There==

Now it is fair and balanced.

==What to do with this page?==

As this page has, as was pretty much inevitable, now gotten worse and even MORE ueseless, I would like to re-iterate my previous position that everything other than the brief history section should be removed. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 18:32, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:If we're going to keep the page at all, I think we should keep our new friend's contribution. Don't edit it or clean it up, leave it at his reading level. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 18:36, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
:The page should never have existed anyway, and since there's no justification for removing this anonymous crybaby's sixth-grade ranting about how the smart kids don't like him without removing the part making fun of the shit-for-brains who make up the loudest part of this and every fandom, I agree that it should be minimized or removed. Any sufficiently official and important aspect of fandom (ie BotCon) has its own place on the wiki anyway. -[[User:LV|LV]] 18:58, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:: The Guys I'm ranting about are the "smart kids"? You're kidding, right? For a start, if they were the smarter ones, their arguments would be the more detailed ones. The fact that mine trailed on is simply down to the fact that I've spent more time on my arguments. How are the people whining about the fans any better? What's wrong with complaining? Why do you have to attach weighted terms in it? And if I'm so dumb, how did I know I'd be able to catch you out like this, as you say, you can't remove mine without removing his?

:::That you admit that it's ranting is enough. Veil your complaints in sarcasm and witty banter and we'll talk.--[[User:Carrion|Carrion]] 18:55, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:::The fact that you trailed on is a testament to how boring you are, kid. Brevity is the soul of wit. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 18:51, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

::Well, I for one would like to see this page actually turned into something ''useful''. It could have information on the fandom references in Beast Wars, the fan artists and writers who have gone on to do official work, things like that. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 18:40, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

As absolutely ''fucking hilarious'' as the page just became, I agree with the above notions. We either need to delete the whole schebang (frankly, I never found the page to really be necessary at all to begin with) or, as Kil notes, take the route of making it a "hub" page for the big fan-stuff turned "official", with a note about its GENERAL history (starting on USENET, move to messageboards, MUSHes, etc). --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 18:46, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

::: I'd rather we leave it exactly as it is, with both arguments. However, there shouldn't be an artificial argument here. The person with the most convincing argument should be allowed to have it shine if it really is more convincing.

::: And I honestly believe there is just much more "shit" on the fan-haters than the fans themselves. They really are a joke.

::: I don't mean it to be too horribly mean since a lot of my friends do engage in some of the things I list, but considering what I was responding to, and the level of bullying in the community, I really did feel a no-holds barred rebuttal was necessary. There is already enough of this rubbish within the fandom itself, if this place is so seperate it should know better. The most ridiculous thing about the fandom is without about those within it who are bitter, horrid and vicious in their criticism of their fellow fans. No amount of complaining about Michael Bay or Bumblebee not being a VW can ever compete with that, and it's about time the fandom started realising it.

::: I genuinely feel that some people have gone much too far, and don't realise or don't care about the damage they're doing on the community. Boards like TFW2005 and Allspark are far too strict for there ever to be any kind of "Uprising". If there is to be any kind of opposition, or at least equal footing with these people, it needs to be here, where it's lax. I do have little reason to respect people like Walky as long as they continue to mock and spread bile about me and people who share my views directly and indirectly through their "humour" or message board posts.

::: I will consider removing some of the harsher ones, like the one about people liking the movie. I actually quite liked the movie but I was bothered by the scrap-heap designs and poor script and humour. It just really bothers me that something that's objectively not the greatest thing ever is pushed on people in the manner that it is throughout the fandom. I remain adamant that a lot of the support of the movie within the fanbase is down to hype and peer pressure.
*You're a very angry man who doesn't seem to realize that the article was intended to be one giant ''joke'' where we mock our own fanboyishness (word?). Seek help. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 18:47, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
*I love the assumption that people who pour their time and energy into the wiki aren't fans, but people whose only interest is to scream and whine until they get banned from the big message boards (and I don't know who this guy is, but COME ON) are the real fans. And it's all everyone else's fault but his. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 18:54, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

: Hold on, why is the other "joke" acceptable and not mine? Mine is much more "Jokey" in tone. You mean "seek help" because I fail to conform to your side of the supposed "humour". I've found in my experience on sites like ED that these kind of articles are often a lot more genuine than they seem, with some light tone tacked on so they can get away with it on the grounds of parody. You're not mocking yourselves - people like Walky, Sipher, while sometimes mocking themselves in different ways, set themselves out from the people they mock or "correct". There is a split between between "Fanboy" and "Anti-fan" which is very similiar to the supporters and detractors of the movie. This article is a result of that split - it's not fans making fun of themselves, it's fans making fun of other fans.
*That fact that you said a guy who wrote this was writting Child Pornoprophy set off a few alarms. Then there's is that fact that it came of vitriolic and with more swearing that one would expect from a series aimed toward kids. That's where you may need to seek help. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 18:53, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

* The Child Pornography thing was a joke, since "Shortpacked" sounds like a euphanism(fudge packing, children are short, whatever). It was just something I dropped in to show that what I'd written was somewhat tounge in cheek, and also to dislodge the idea that Shortpacked itself should be taken as the accurate, witty observational humour some people make it out to be.. I can always change that, but I doubt enough children use this Wiki to notice. Not that you care - your recent actions prove you're biased as hell with no respect for decent argument or opposition.

Okay, seriously, Walky, stop it. It isn't funny anymore to pretend to be a complete idiot who compares your comic to child porn.

Okay, maybe its a little funny, but its irritating that it needs clean up so often.

: Walky would never post something like this since it contains near-irrefutable points against some of his arguments. Not to mention you're using his tactics trying to discredit someone by calling them an "idiot" instead of proving their argument wrong.

Seriously, Willis, we get it by now.

Ha ha, fake person even thinks their arguments have merit. The joke's getting old.

==Okay seriously, what to do with this page?==

Since the above section was derailed, let's get down to it. What should this article be?

As funny as I think the venting was, I just don't think it benefits the wiki as a whole. I think we'd be better off with a more neutral opening paragraph, a link to [[Transformers timeline]], the existing link to the Fandom category, and nothing else.

I further think that while adding/restoring the funny to this article should be encouragedn any vandalism to support a particular viewpoint (which the original article didn't even do) should be bannable. Same goes for anyone who wants to spam us about their awesome message board which is totally the hub of all TF fandom. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 19:18, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Okay, sounds reasonable so-far, with maybe a warning first. Still doesn't solve the central argument. [[User:chiasaur11|chiasaur11]] 12:21, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Wow. Is this what the thoughts of someone with Asperger's sound like? One that really gets me is "You are the dirt beneath Aaron Archer's feat. (sic)" Have you ever been to a [[BotCon]]? I just can't imagine how a fan could have ever spoken to someone like Archer or [[Greg Lombardo]] - as a human being, not as a Santa Claus machine to request future gifts from - and have seething hatred like this. They're hard-working, creative people who go to work in the morning trying to make the most fun, highest-quality lines possible. Then anywhere from nine months to a well over a year before their upcoming work hits and has a chance to win over kids and general audiences, the fans start ripping into it with full vitriol on the basis of the earliest images and, year after year, build up snarling personal loathing for them individually. Nothing makes you look worse than heaping hatred on living, breathing people because they didn't put out the exact toys you want. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 19:22, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:: Rotty, you have no sense of humour. And remember, sense of humour isn't just what you find funny but also how much leeway you're willing to give other people's attempts at being so. There is no hatred directed towards Mr. Archer here. It's meant to be a parody of the way in which some people make it out like fans shouldn't matter in the least when it comes to how Hasbro(or Paramount) do things. It is pretty obvious to anyone that understands the terminology. Of course Mr. Archer does not treat people like that, it's part of the absurdity. And please do not keep reverting my contributions. It's just getting very immature.

:: Quite frankly I'm disgusted that some people keep trying to revert this before it's been properly discussed. It's already been established that if you remove my rot, you have to remove the original rot too. At least mine is much better planned out rot, yet it's still cast as the bad rot because it goes against the current mentality of this place. I am also not fond of Sipher calling my contribution "dumber", but since he was one of the guys I was rallying against it's not surprising he'd do that instead of defending himself properly.<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Fandom

2007-08-03T19:38:56Z

159.134.163.42:

This page is being ''extensively'' reworked because it was dumb before and has only gotten dumber and dumber since.

{{stub}}
[[Category: Fandom]]

THE ABSOLUTE REAL TRUTH FROM SOMEONE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT:

No, it didn't get dumber. It was dumb, then the immensely biased viewpoint was countered, making it less biased and thus slightly less dumb, M "I am not fond of opposing viewpoints" Sipher. If this is going to be changed, it's with the understanding that my contribution was no worse in any shape or form than the original, and that opposition is good, one sidedness is not.<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Fandom

2007-08-03T19:36:27Z

159.134.163.42:

That IP address was me. I figured since you have this entry just ''dripping'' with snark including "Bayformers", it should include the inexplicable fan belief that early G1 had more realistic representations of extraterrestrial robots, even though the toy engineers made them to look like the human-built piloted mecha they were in their original toy lines. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 18:30, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:Oooh. Your edit didn't say anything about extraterrestrials, so, I totally didn't know where you were going. I personally prefer the line more brief, without bringing that part in, but, I don't feel real strongly about it. If you put it back in I might edit the phrasing to make it more to my liking, though. :) --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 19:07, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I ''know'' that someone from Hasbro (Whatshername, the exec who used to work for Power Rangers?) mentioned at some point that they estimate that X% of Transformers toys are bought by adult collectors- and I ''think'' it was 20. That should probably be in here.

I admit, I find the tone of this article unnecessarily harsh. I'd like to see it either moderated, or to have [[Fans]] and [[Fandom]] made two separate articles, with most of the negative aspects assigned to fandom. (Which I think is a fair division of blame- you still hear stories of hardcore transfans who run into the occasional hardcore solo-fan who has no clue about the 'net, conventions etc. The ''really'' nasty negative aspects of fans are almost all ''group behaviors'' that feed on themselves and doesn't exist in individuals if a fan is removed from fandom.)

...oh my god, I just articulated a [[Wikipedia:Romanticism|romantacist]] belief in the fundamental goodness of humanity and the corrupting influence of society on individuals. '''KILL ME NOW! DO IT BEFORE I SPREAD PEACE AND LOVE ALL OVER THE WIKI!''' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:54, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

::::Was that Michelle Fields? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:44, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

::I also greatly dislike the tone of this article. It gives the impression that we here at this Wiki somehow stand separate and apart from the "fandom" which it sarcastically ridicules. Were it up to me, everything on this page but the short History section would be removed. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 02:46, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

:I find this article totally hilarious and that it contains quite a lot of truths. {{unsigned|210.49.121.202}}

I'm okay with the link. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 03:36, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I admit to being a little surprised at the negative reactions, as this is all stuff that's already written in various places on this wiki. Still, I recognize that if my only supporter is an anonymous string of numbers, I apparently just have a weird opinion on it. I just talked to Walky about it and he said the sarcastic "accomplishments"list could maybe be preserved if it were just a small part of a large, otherwise focusing-on-the-positive article. That sounds okay to me... I'd kind of like to keep at least ''some'' of the list in there, but, again, I seemingly have no perception of how vicious what I wrote is, so maybe it should be totally scrapped. For now I'll call shenanigans on myself while we decide what to do. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 03:54, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
:Keep it. I read some seriously ridiculous crap in the past week that makes this page DESERVE existence. Oh yeah, and it needs a mention of terrible fanfiction in there, since nothing is free from terrible fanfiction.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 05:35, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
:: This article is just full of win. Reading it totally made my day. I say keep it. [[User:Detour|Detour]] 06:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

:I don't have a problem witht he negativity of the article per-se... it just seems kinda ''down'' on fans unless there's some contrasting material to balance it out. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:51, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

::Pretty much all of the snark and negativity on display in the current version is depressingly close to the truth, but I for one would certainly like to see it balanced out with stuff about the more positive aspects of TF fandom. --[[User:TVsGrady|TVsGrady]] 00:17, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

::It currently bears an uncanny resemblence to Encyclopedia Dramatica. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 08:02, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

It has been my observation that other fandoms, particularly the GI Joe fandom (probably owing to TF's close relationship with Joe), think TF fans are absolutely fucking insane. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:48, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
:The Sonic The Hedgehog fandom makes Transformers, G. I. Joe or basically anyone else look like rank amateurs in the insanity department. I am dead serious as hilarious as it might sound. Death threats and talk of character rape is how you say "hello" over there.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 04:52, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I am in favor of the article staying in its present state, as a reminder against such foolish behavior. It made my day reading the Fandom section, and under the management's rule that "THE FUNNY STAYS.", it should be here. [[User:Ronimus Prime|Ronimus Prime]] 03:51, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I say keep it. It reminds fans not to take themselves too seriously. In fact, maybe even add a note on the whole "Who is Cyclonus" thing. [[User:67.160.13.149|67.160.13.149]] 22:39, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

This whole page sounds like another one of Walky's idiotic rants against the fandom. Snore. Why don't people make fun of the anti-fans like Walky more often, when the things they say and do are far more ridiculous as they can't be defended by "Well, he's a crazy fan"?

==There==

Now it is fair and balanced.

==What to do with this page?==

As this page has, as was pretty much inevitable, now gotten worse and even MORE ueseless, I would like to re-iterate my previous position that everything other than the brief history section should be removed. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 18:32, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:If we're going to keep the page at all, I think we should keep our new friend's contribution. Don't edit it or clean it up, leave it at his reading level. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 18:36, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
:The page should never have existed anyway, and since there's no justification for removing this anonymous crybaby's sixth-grade ranting about how the smart kids don't like him without removing the part making fun of the shit-for-brains who make up the loudest part of this and every fandom, I agree that it should be minimized or removed. Any sufficiently official and important aspect of fandom (ie BotCon) has its own place on the wiki anyway. -[[User:LV|LV]] 18:58, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:: The Guys I'm ranting about are the "smart kids"? You're kidding, right? For a start, if they were the smarter ones, their arguments would be the more detailed ones. The fact that mine trailed on is simply down to the fact that I've spent more time on my arguments. How are the people whining about the fans any better? What's wrong with complaining? Why do you have to attach weighted terms in it? And if I'm so dumb, how did I know I'd be able to catch you out like this, as you say, you can't remove mine without removing his?

:::That you admit that it's ranting is enough. Veil your complaints in sarcasm and witty banter and we'll talk.--[[User:Carrion|Carrion]] 18:55, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:::The fact that you trailed on is a testament to how boring you are, kid. Brevity is the soul of wit. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 18:51, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

::Well, I for one would like to see this page actually turned into something ''useful''. It could have information on the fandom references in Beast Wars, the fan artists and writers who have gone on to do official work, things like that. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 18:40, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

As absolutely ''fucking hilarious'' as the page just became, I agree with the above notions. We either need to delete the whole schebang (frankly, I never found the page to really be necessary at all to begin with) or, as Kil notes, take the route of making it a "hub" page for the big fan-stuff turned "official", with a note about its GENERAL history (starting on USENET, move to messageboards, MUSHes, etc). --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 18:46, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

::: I'd rather we leave it exactly as it is, with both arguments. However, there shouldn't be an artificial argument here. The person with the most convincing argument should be allowed to have it shine if it really is more convincing.

::: And I honestly believe there is just much more "shit" on the fan-haters than the fans themselves. They really are a joke.

::: I don't mean it to be too horribly mean since a lot of my friends do engage in some of the things I list, but considering what I was responding to, and the level of bullying in the community, I really did feel a no-holds barred rebuttal was necessary. There is already enough of this rubbish within the fandom itself, if this place is so seperate it should know better. The most ridiculous thing about the fandom is without about those within it who are bitter, horrid and vicious in their criticism of their fellow fans. No amount of complaining about Michael Bay or Bumblebee not being a VW can ever compete with that, and it's about time the fandom started realising it.

::: I genuinely feel that some people have gone much too far, and don't realise or don't care about the damage they're doing on the community. Boards like TFW2005 and Allspark are far too strict for there ever to be any kind of "Uprising". If there is to be any kind of opposition, or at least equal footing with these people, it needs to be here, where it's lax. I do have little reason to respect people like Walky as long as they continue to mock and spread bile about me and people who share my views directly and indirectly through their "humour" or message board posts.

::: I will consider removing some of the harsher ones, like the one about people liking the movie. I actually quite liked the movie but I was bothered by the scrap-heap designs and poor script and humour. It just really bothers me that something that's objectively not the greatest thing ever is pushed on people in the manner that it is throughout the fandom. I remain adamant that a lot of the support of the movie within the fanbase is down to hype and peer pressure.
*You're a very angry man who doesn't seem to realize that the article was intended to be one giant ''joke'' where we mock our own fanboyishness (word?). Seek help. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 18:47, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
*I love the assumption that people who pour their time and energy into the wiki aren't fans, but people whose only interest is to scream and whine until they get banned from the big message boards (and I don't know who this guy is, but COME ON) are the real fans. And it's all everyone else's fault but his. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 18:54, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

: Hold on, why is the other "joke" acceptable and not mine? Mine is much more "Jokey" in tone. You mean "seek help" because I fail to conform to your side of the supposed "humour". I've found in my experience on sites like ED that these kind of articles are often a lot more genuine than they seem, with some light tone tacked on so they can get away with it on the grounds of parody. You're not mocking yourselves - people like Walky, Sipher, while sometimes mocking themselves in different ways, set themselves out from the people they mock or "correct". There is a split between between "Fanboy" and "Anti-fan" which is very similiar to the supporters and detractors of the movie. This article is a result of that split - it's not fans making fun of themselves, it's fans making fun of other fans.
*That fact that you said a guy who wrote this was writting Child Pornoprophy set off a few alarms. Then there's is that fact that it came of vitriolic and with more swearing that one would expect from a series aimed toward kids. That's where you may need to seek help. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 18:53, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

* The Child Pornography thing was a joke, since "Shortpacked" sounds like a euphanism(fudge packing, children are short, whatever). It was just something I dropped in to show that what I'd written was somewhat tounge in cheek, and also to dislodge the idea that Shortpacked itself should be taken as the accurate, witty observational humour some people make it out to be.. I can always change that, but I doubt enough children use this Wiki to notice. Not that you care - your recent actions prove you're biased as hell with no respect for decent argument or opposition.

Okay, seriously, Walky, stop it. It isn't funny anymore to pretend to be a complete idiot who compares your comic to child porn.

Okay, maybe its a little funny, but its irritating that it needs clean up so often.

: Walky would never post something like this since it contains near-irrefutable points against some of his arguments. Not to mention you're using his tactics trying to discredit someone by calling them an "idiot" instead of proving their argument wrong.

Seriously, Willis, we get it by now.

Ha ha, fake person even thinks their arguments have merit. The joke's getting old.

==Okay seriously, what to do with this page?==

Since the above section was derailed, let's get down to it. What should this article be?

As funny as I think the venting was, I just don't think it benefits the wiki as a whole. I think we'd be better off with a more neutral opening paragraph, a link to [[Transformers timeline]], the existing link to the Fandom category, and nothing else.

I further think that while adding/restoring the funny to this article should be encouragedn any vandalism to support a particular viewpoint (which the original article didn't even do) should be bannable. Same goes for anyone who wants to spam us about their awesome message board which is totally the hub of all TF fandom. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 19:18, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Okay, sounds reasonable so-far, with maybe a warning first. Still doesn't solve the central argument. [[User:chiasaur11|chiasaur11]] 12:21, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Wow. Is this what the thoughts of someone with Asperger's sound like? One that really gets me is "You are the dirt beneath Aaron Archer's feat. (sic)" Have you ever been to a [[BotCon]]? I just can't imagine how a fan could have ever spoken to someone like Archer or [[Greg Lombardo]] - as a human being, not as a Santa Claus machine to request future gifts from - and have seething hatred like this. They're hard-working, creative people who go to work in the morning trying to make the most fun, highest-quality lines possible. Then anywhere from nine months to a well over a year before their upcoming work hits and has a chance to win over kids and general audiences, the fans start ripping into it with full vitriol on the basis of the earliest images and, year after year, build up snarling personal loathing for them individually. Nothing makes you look worse than heaping hatred on living, breathing people because they didn't put out the exact toys you want. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 19:22, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:: Rotty, you have no sense of humour. And remember, sense of humour isn't just what you find funny but also how much leeway you're willing to give other people's attempts at being so. There is no hatred directed towards Mr. Archer here. It's meant to be a parody of the way in which some people make it out like fans shouldn't matter in the least when it comes to how Hasbro(or Paramount) do things. It is pretty obvious to anyone that understands the terminology. Of course Mr. Archer does not treat people like that, it's part of the absurdity. And please do not keep reverting my contributions. It's just getting very immature.

:: Quite frankly I'm disgusted that some people keep trying to revert this before it's been properly discussed. It's already been established that if you remove my rot, you have to remove the original rot too. At least mine is much better planned out rot, yet it's still cast as the bad rot because it goes against the current mentality of this place.<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

User talk:159.134.163.42

2007-08-03T19:34:35Z

159.134.163.42:

Sorry about the earlier comment.

: Why? I've done nothing wrong. You're the only one doing something wrong by trying to block someone's access to the site who's done nothing wrong. That's pretty nasty, actually. You do realise this shows up as a "New message" for me too, right? Pretty un-covert if you're trying to talk over my head. And very disrespectful if you knew what you were doing. I really can't see any way of looking at this situation that casts you as the good guy.
*This isn't the right way to start a dialogue, Chiasaur11. But seriously, just tone it down a little. The image I'm getting of you is someone who is starting to foam at the mouth. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 19:01, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

* No, but I am someone who's laughing quite a bit. I and some other of my friends have been pissed on a lot on forums and it's somewhat amusing to see people defending this kind of nonsense and really not succeeding even when they have a majority.

*His only apparent motive is to vandalize. Rather than trying to have an actual discussion of whatever viewpoint he's trying to present on the talk pages, he's out to start stupid revert wars in the articles themselves. I don't see what we'd lose
by banning him. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 19:25, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:: Jesus, you know, this really botherss me. I would comment more in detail of how you're not backing up your claims of vandalism, merely using a weighted term to eliminate someone who's way of doing things you disagree with, but the way in which you talk about banning someone just because you don't think you've anything to loose makes me loose respect for you in ways you'd never imagine

:: It just shows what a disgusting, disrespectful, fascist mindset you must have. Are you by any chance a moderator on any of the major boards? Again, I'm not doing anything wrong. What I am contributing to that article is no different as to what was already there, just the flip side of the coin. What YOU'RE doing is trying to eliminate someone you disagree with. THAT is wrong.

:: I don't want a revert war. I want my contribution to be left alone. There was NO justification for removing it, no matter what other weighted terms you throw around to try and get people to think I'm a mental patient.

Huzzah!
Not the losing somebody, just the not having to deal with all the reverts.[[User:chiasaur11|chiasaur11]] 12:29, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:: You're the one doing the fucking reverts, not me. It's not my fault you can't deal with someone opposing someone else's opinion.<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

User talk:159.134.163.42

2007-08-03T19:33:47Z

159.134.163.42:

Sorry about the earlier comment.

: Why? I've done nothing wrong. You're the only one doing something wrong by trying to block someone's access to the site who's done nothing wrong. That's pretty nasty, actually. You do realise this shows up as a "New message" for me too, right? Pretty un-covert if you're trying to talk over my head. And very disrespectful if you knew what you were doing. I really can't see any way of looking at this situation that casts you as the good guy.
*This isn't the right way to start a dialogue, Chiasaur11. But seriously, just tone it down a little. The image I'm getting of you is someone who is starting to foam at the mouth. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 19:01, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

* No, but I am someone who's laughing quite a bit. I and some other of my friends have been pissed on a lot on forums and it's somewhat amusing to see people defending this kind of nonsense and really not succeeding even when they have a majority.

*His only apparent motive is to vandalize. Rather than trying to have an actual discussion of whatever viewpoint he's trying to present on the talk pages, he's out to start stupid revert wars in the articles themselves. I don't see what we'd lose
by banning him. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 19:25, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:: Jesus, you know, this really botherss me. I would comment more in detail of how you're not backing up your claims of vandalism, merely using a weighted term to eliminate someone who's way of doing things you disagree with, but the way in which you talk about banning someone just because you don't think you've anything to loose makes me loose respect for you in ways you'd never imagine

:: It just shows what a disgusting, disrespectful, fascist mindset you must have. Are you by any chance a moderator on any of the major boards? Again, I'm not doing anything wrong. What I am contributing to that article is no different as to what was already there, just the flip side of the coin. What YOU'RE doing is trying to eliminate someone you disagree with. THAT is wrong.

Huzzah!
Not the losing somebody, just the not having to deal with all the reverts.[[User:chiasaur11|chiasaur11]] 12:29, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:: You're the one doing the fucking reverts, not me. It's not my fault you can't deal with someone opposing someone else's opinion.<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Fandom

2007-08-03T19:30:05Z

159.134.163.42: You have no justification for what you're doing. Stop it. It should be left alone at least until it is discussed what to do.

{{shenanigans|It's apparently really mean?}}

The '''Transformers fandom''' is the most intelligent, discerning, sophisticated and important group of people in the world today. Without their charitable support, [[Hasbro]] would be forced to mothball the ''Transformers'' brand and would probably enter bankruptcy, taking the entire world economy with it.

==Accomplishments==

Among the amazing discoveries and conclusions of the fandom are the following:

*The ''Transformers'' brand is hanging onto life by the most fragile of threads, and any attempt to do something new will [[Ruined FOREVER|ruin ''Transformers'' forever]].
*Liking things is stupid. If you had half a brain you would realize how terrible everything is and complain about it endlessly. Further, this is rational and constructive behavior. Hasblo will never learn and get things right if we don't save them by telling them how stupid they are.
*Literally everybody hates [[Playskool]]ish [[neon]] colors, therefore toys will sell better if they are [[black repaint|entirely black]].
*Any feature included or removed [[for safety reasons]] is a slap in the face to [[true fan]]s.
*Children are not an important segment of the ''Transformers'' market.
*[[Prototype]]s and test shots that are clearly stamped with the words "not for sale" are actually totally fine to buy over eBay from people in China. There is nothing remotely shady about this.
*It is possible to determine with complete certainty that a product/franchise/work of art will suck as much as eight months before said entity is completed, much less shown to the public or actually released.
*The most important thing for the brand to do is release homages of ''[[Generation 1]]'' characters over and over and over and over and over.
*Any homage of a ''Generation 1'' character which is not given the [[Trademark|name]] of the original character is a direct insult to all fans.
*Any character which is given the name of a ''Generation 1'' character which is not an homage to the original character is a direct insult to all fans.
*Any character which is given the name of a ''Generation 1'' character and is also an homage of the same character but who doesn't behave exactly like the ''Generation 1'' character is a direct insult to all fans.
*Because all fans have an inalienable right to own every toy, toys which would never be released under normal circumstances should never be given a chance at release through [[exclusive]] channels. It would be better for the toy to never be released at all than for some people to get to enjoy it.
*Optimus is a [[trukk not munky|truck, not a monkey]].
*[[Armada (cartoon)|''Armada'']]? I think you mean ''Pokéformers''.
*[[Movie (franchise)|Bayformers]] are much less realistic than ''Generation 1'' Transformers.
* [[Dreamwave]]'s artwork was AWESOME as long as sales were high. Once the company started going downhill, everyone had suddenly always been fully aware how AWFUL [[Pat Lee|Superstar Funana]]'s art was right from the start.
*Japan is much more important and profitable market than North America. Nobody likes Europe, not even Hasbro.
*[[Takara]] products are always superior.
*Hasbro ruins everything Takara does.

==The Anti-Fans==

They obviously wrote the above "Parody", so let's see if they can take the heat.

The Anti-Fans are a group of insecure 20-30 something year olds who believe taking a more pessimistic, corporate worshipining position somehow makes you more mature. They operate on the larger boards, especially TFW2005 and Allspark which have very strict moderation; so they can get away with being very annoying without anyone attacking them or pointing out they're full of rubbish. They seem to make a living off mocking gripes of the fandom, because like, come on, what's more immature than collecting children's toys and complaining about them? Probably complainining incessantly about fans. But that's not the point!

The most famous Anti-Fans include It'sWalky, author of the Islamic Fundamentalist comic strip [[Shortpacked]], Khan, and Ben Stiller.

==Beliefs and Practices:==

* Hasbro are YOUR GODS. They're not 100% perfect, since you have to think they have one or two minor, insignifcant flaws just so you can say "I don't worship Hasbro!" after you just spend 300 words tearing into anyone who points out Classic Starscream's deco looks like shit.

* The movie is to be revered as the best thing that ever happened to the fandom. They were doing us a favour by completely disregarding the original designs and personalities of the some the original characters, hiring one of the most "MTV" directors in Hollywood, giving Optimus Prime lips and out-of-character flames, and only listening to the fanbase on the most blatantly stupid things like removing Arcee(which, apparently, an awful lot of people regret after seeing her design, it was pretty obviously just out of a "Boy's Club, no girls allowed" mentality no matter what "Girl robots are weird, what do you mean robots with noses" argument that comes after).

* Anyone who hates the movie is a "hater", according to Don Murphy, Nelson, and the easily impressionable half of the fanbase that picked up on this bizarre form of viral marketting, and should be boiled alive. Apprently, disliking and liking something are not the flip side of the same coin as we've been led to believe. Oh no. If you hate things, it makes you evil, since it's easier on the peons' brains to think "Hate=Bad" than considering any level of complication.

* Going by this reasoning, the sheer prospect of Mariah Carey releasing a new album would generate enough Evil to raise Stalin, Saddam Hussein and Hitler's moustache from the dead. And turn Simon Cowell into some kind of fire breathing Demigod.

* Generation one was, like, cool in the 80s man, but it's no good now. I mean haven't you see the cartoon!? The like, plot is totally whack. I don't know exactly where but this guy told me and I think I kind of remember something about the Constructicons not being explained. The several hundred issue Marvel comic alternately does not exist, or is shit(without any explanation as to why, of course). This is why there are still constant slews of toys, comics, wallclocks and lampshades based on G1, yet comparitvely nothing on the much less well recieved Armada series - just to rub it in our faces how rubbish it is.

* Constant fixation on the TAKARA SUPERIOR thing, failing to realise that most fans consider both Hasbro and Takara equally hokey.

* Outright ignoring the fact that Hasbro fails to release slews of Transformers related product in Europe, and charges 2 to 3 times for it, for no logical reason, which harms sales horribly. Hasbro know what they're doing! I mean how do stay on top if they keep fucking up!? It's not as if they have brands like Transformers, GiJoe, and Marvel Legends that millions of kids and collectors will buy no matter what!

* Collectors do not matter. YOU do not matter. What you want does not matter. It is WRONG to fantasise, or want to be treated fairly for your lifelong support of Hasbro/Takaras product. You are the dirt beneath Aaron Archer's feat. You deserve to be rolled up and smoked by Don Murphy, or spend the rest of your days cleaning Michael Bay's enormous penis.

* Failing to realise that you probably should do what the collectors want, since kids will buy it anyway and feel all grown up buying collectory stuff.

* Instead of forming logical arguments as to why Transformers fans are so ridiculous; just make a shitty comic where a character based on the author gets increasingly angry at a misrepresentation of a particular practice of the fandom. This gains you loyal followers to do your arguing for you, but also makes you look like a bit of twat.

* Believing that the movie was anything more than a badly scripted Popcorn flick that invetibly broke all kinds of records simply due to the fact that it had lots of stuff blowing up in new and exciting ways, or claiming that Transformers could NEVER have been anything more than a rubbishy Popcorn flick, with no reason as to why. Once again, the Marvel comic book does not exist.

* The designs had to be changed to get across the idea that this is a bold, new, grown up Transformers, yet the plot and jokes are just about as immature as you can get.

* The new designs are the only way the Transformers could work in live action. Don't you remember all the complaints about the Ice-skating Transformer and how shit did!? Well we were all thinking it! We have absolutely no evidence to prove it but... it just looks SO cartoony!

* Literally translating "G1 based" to mean taking the cartoon models. rendering them in 3D and sticking them in a movie with some cheap shaders on. I have no idea how ANYONE could be stupid enough to think that's what fans want, especially since half the fun of a movie is to see how they tweak the designs, but what have you.

* Following from the last point, failing to realise the other half of the fun of a movie is to see the characters we've grown to know and love in a movie. As long as it's GIANT ROBOTS THAT FUCKING TRANSFORM, it's Transformers. Not Gobots. Or Roadbots. Or Macross. Or those Gundams that sort of Transform.

* The bizarre notion that people actually think for themselves when being blasted full on with Hollywood hype designed to do exactly the opposite, and that anyone trying to get someone else to re-asses their own opinion is being a total NAZI.

* If it makes a lot of money, it's good and was done by geniuses. Generally, right wing economics are aces. This is probably why Hasbro rip off Sweden on the cost of Transformers, obviously, to prove that socialism could never work.

* Change is good. Any change. For any reason. G1 should be left behind where it is. I mean, it's not as if Spider-man, X-men, Fantastic Four and other similiarly ridiculous comic booky type things have remained in the same universe for decades.

* The argument that if something changes, the reason for someone being a fan of it may no longer be there, doesn't hold water. They just ignore it and make more comics about TAKARA SUPERIOR.

* PLASTIC. Constantly making fun of anyone who suggests that certain Transformer toys look "playskooly". The reason for this is that many Transformers toys appear "cheap" because of the use of somewhat translucent plastics which swallow details, and often in poor/unsuitable colour choices(some of Classics, a lot of Armada) which only appears to have been recently corrected(since the Animated toys use less detail). Anti-fans never really deal with this properly, going off on some stupid tangent or just making fun of the very assertion that a greedy corporate entity would cheap out on plastic or deco designers. Pointing out that Hasbro's Marvel Legends shows the same symptoms as their Transformers did, and that other lines had much better paint apps for your money, gets them very angry, and to claim incredible knowledge of the toy making procedure, yet never sharing it with any of us, especially the bit of how it's so much different for Hasbro than it is for Toybiz. Eventually, they just call you insane and ignore you, since nobody has to defend their weakly formulated support of sub-par toys to an insane person.
The reason the PLASTIC thing is the one that comes up the most often is that it's the most blatantly obviously true, so it takes a lot more delusional ranting to cover it up than other things.

* They almost always make out the cry for better paint apps to mean "EVERYTHING IN BLACK". Which is kind of funny, because these people also tend to support the movie, which has the motto EVERYTHING IN BLACK OR GREY. Attempting to improve the paint apps on Transformers will have them suddenly turn into Spawn figures, probably due to the evil magics of the GEEWUNNERS.

* This general irritating idea that "Generation 1" was just a phase of Transformers, and not the original, defining series. The fact that it was the only universe that was truly expanded through twice as many cartoons, hundreds of comics, hundreds of toys, and that pierced the mainstream and is still often harkened back to today, doesn't matter in their quest to feel more mature and piss on everyone that's stuck in the 80s. Because our current generation is SO MUCH more exciting. With all the crappy consumerism and cheesy pop music in our current era, it's nothing at all like the 80s with iPods and crappier non-mainstream bands.

* Failure to pay attention that Beast Wars was an entirely different context to G1, so many of the same defenses for it do not apply to the movie/other new cartoons.

* Names mean nothing and can be assigned to any character at any time. For instance, it would have been acceptable to call a short black guy with purple Mascara "Optimus Prime" in the movie, and it wouldn't have ruined Prime's public image, at all.

* Starscream is a rubbish character and the only interesting part of him that he's a traitor. All the millions of fans he has don't count since they're all gays and girls.

==History==

It got its start as an organized entity in the 1980s through the establishment of unofficial fan clubs, most notably [[TransMasters]], but it wasn't until the mid-1990s and the beginning of the Internet boom that fandom (both of Transformers and in general) took off. Starting in [[alt.toys.transformers]] and then expanding into innumerable web-based fora, the once tight-knit fandom is now too large for anyone to really know everyone. But would you really want to?

==External links==
*[http://www.shortpacked.com/ Shortpacked!] - A webcomic which frequently documents the academic findings of various fandoms.

[[Category:Fandom| ]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Fandom

2007-08-03T19:29:16Z

159.134.163.42:

That IP address was me. I figured since you have this entry just ''dripping'' with snark including "Bayformers", it should include the inexplicable fan belief that early G1 had more realistic representations of extraterrestrial robots, even though the toy engineers made them to look like the human-built piloted mecha they were in their original toy lines. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 18:30, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:Oooh. Your edit didn't say anything about extraterrestrials, so, I totally didn't know where you were going. I personally prefer the line more brief, without bringing that part in, but, I don't feel real strongly about it. If you put it back in I might edit the phrasing to make it more to my liking, though. :) --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 19:07, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I ''know'' that someone from Hasbro (Whatshername, the exec who used to work for Power Rangers?) mentioned at some point that they estimate that X% of Transformers toys are bought by adult collectors- and I ''think'' it was 20. That should probably be in here.

I admit, I find the tone of this article unnecessarily harsh. I'd like to see it either moderated, or to have [[Fans]] and [[Fandom]] made two separate articles, with most of the negative aspects assigned to fandom. (Which I think is a fair division of blame- you still hear stories of hardcore transfans who run into the occasional hardcore solo-fan who has no clue about the 'net, conventions etc. The ''really'' nasty negative aspects of fans are almost all ''group behaviors'' that feed on themselves and doesn't exist in individuals if a fan is removed from fandom.)

...oh my god, I just articulated a [[Wikipedia:Romanticism|romantacist]] belief in the fundamental goodness of humanity and the corrupting influence of society on individuals. '''KILL ME NOW! DO IT BEFORE I SPREAD PEACE AND LOVE ALL OVER THE WIKI!''' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:54, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

::::Was that Michelle Fields? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:44, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

::I also greatly dislike the tone of this article. It gives the impression that we here at this Wiki somehow stand separate and apart from the "fandom" which it sarcastically ridicules. Were it up to me, everything on this page but the short History section would be removed. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 02:46, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

:I find this article totally hilarious and that it contains quite a lot of truths. {{unsigned|210.49.121.202}}

I'm okay with the link. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 03:36, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I admit to being a little surprised at the negative reactions, as this is all stuff that's already written in various places on this wiki. Still, I recognize that if my only supporter is an anonymous string of numbers, I apparently just have a weird opinion on it. I just talked to Walky about it and he said the sarcastic "accomplishments"list could maybe be preserved if it were just a small part of a large, otherwise focusing-on-the-positive article. That sounds okay to me... I'd kind of like to keep at least ''some'' of the list in there, but, again, I seemingly have no perception of how vicious what I wrote is, so maybe it should be totally scrapped. For now I'll call shenanigans on myself while we decide what to do. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 03:54, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
:Keep it. I read some seriously ridiculous crap in the past week that makes this page DESERVE existence. Oh yeah, and it needs a mention of terrible fanfiction in there, since nothing is free from terrible fanfiction.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 05:35, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
:: This article is just full of win. Reading it totally made my day. I say keep it. [[User:Detour|Detour]] 06:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

:I don't have a problem witht he negativity of the article per-se... it just seems kinda ''down'' on fans unless there's some contrasting material to balance it out. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:51, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

::Pretty much all of the snark and negativity on display in the current version is depressingly close to the truth, but I for one would certainly like to see it balanced out with stuff about the more positive aspects of TF fandom. --[[User:TVsGrady|TVsGrady]] 00:17, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

::It currently bears an uncanny resemblence to Encyclopedia Dramatica. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 08:02, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

It has been my observation that other fandoms, particularly the GI Joe fandom (probably owing to TF's close relationship with Joe), think TF fans are absolutely fucking insane. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:48, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
:The Sonic The Hedgehog fandom makes Transformers, G. I. Joe or basically anyone else look like rank amateurs in the insanity department. I am dead serious as hilarious as it might sound. Death threats and talk of character rape is how you say "hello" over there.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 04:52, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I am in favor of the article staying in its present state, as a reminder against such foolish behavior. It made my day reading the Fandom section, and under the management's rule that "THE FUNNY STAYS.", it should be here. [[User:Ronimus Prime|Ronimus Prime]] 03:51, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I say keep it. It reminds fans not to take themselves too seriously. In fact, maybe even add a note on the whole "Who is Cyclonus" thing. [[User:67.160.13.149|67.160.13.149]] 22:39, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

This whole page sounds like another one of Walky's idiotic rants against the fandom. Snore. Why don't people make fun of the anti-fans like Walky more often, when the things they say and do are far more ridiculous as they can't be defended by "Well, he's a crazy fan"?

==There==

Now it is fair and balanced.

==What to do with this page?==

As this page has, as was pretty much inevitable, now gotten worse and even MORE ueseless, I would like to re-iterate my previous position that everything other than the brief history section should be removed. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 18:32, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:If we're going to keep the page at all, I think we should keep our new friend's contribution. Don't edit it or clean it up, leave it at his reading level. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 18:36, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
:The page should never have existed anyway, and since there's no justification for removing this anonymous crybaby's sixth-grade ranting about how the smart kids don't like him without removing the part making fun of the shit-for-brains who make up the loudest part of this and every fandom, I agree that it should be minimized or removed. Any sufficiently official and important aspect of fandom (ie BotCon) has its own place on the wiki anyway. -[[User:LV|LV]] 18:58, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:: The Guys I'm ranting about are the "smart kids"? You're kidding, right? For a start, if they were the smarter ones, their arguments would be the more detailed ones. The fact that mine trailed on is simply down to the fact that I've spent more time on my arguments. How are the people whining about the fans any better? What's wrong with complaining? Why do you have to attach weighted terms in it? And if I'm so dumb, how did I know I'd be able to catch you out like this, as you say, you can't remove mine without removing his?

:::That you admit that it's ranting is enough. Veil your complaints in sarcasm and witty banter and we'll talk.--[[User:Carrion|Carrion]] 18:55, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:::The fact that you trailed on is a testament to how boring you are, kid. Brevity is the soul of wit. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 18:51, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

::Well, I for one would like to see this page actually turned into something ''useful''. It could have information on the fandom references in Beast Wars, the fan artists and writers who have gone on to do official work, things like that. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 18:40, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

As absolutely ''fucking hilarious'' as the page just became, I agree with the above notions. We either need to delete the whole schebang (frankly, I never found the page to really be necessary at all to begin with) or, as Kil notes, take the route of making it a "hub" page for the big fan-stuff turned "official", with a note about its GENERAL history (starting on USENET, move to messageboards, MUSHes, etc). --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 18:46, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

::: I'd rather we leave it exactly as it is, with both arguments. However, there shouldn't be an artificial argument here. The person with the most convincing argument should be allowed to have it shine if it really is more convincing.

::: And I honestly believe there is just much more "shit" on the fan-haters than the fans themselves. They really are a joke.

::: I don't mean it to be too horribly mean since a lot of my friends do engage in some of the things I list, but considering what I was responding to, and the level of bullying in the community, I really did feel a no-holds barred rebuttal was necessary. There is already enough of this rubbish within the fandom itself, if this place is so seperate it should know better. The most ridiculous thing about the fandom is without about those within it who are bitter, horrid and vicious in their criticism of their fellow fans. No amount of complaining about Michael Bay or Bumblebee not being a VW can ever compete with that, and it's about time the fandom started realising it.

::: I genuinely feel that some people have gone much too far, and don't realise or don't care about the damage they're doing on the community. Boards like TFW2005 and Allspark are far too strict for there ever to be any kind of "Uprising". If there is to be any kind of opposition, or at least equal footing with these people, it needs to be here, where it's lax. I do have little reason to respect people like Walky as long as they continue to mock and spread bile about me and people who share my views directly and indirectly through their "humour" or message board posts.

::: I will consider removing some of the harsher ones, like the one about people liking the movie. I actually quite liked the movie but I was bothered by the scrap-heap designs and poor script and humour. It just really bothers me that something that's objectively not the greatest thing ever is pushed on people in the manner that it is throughout the fandom. I remain adamant that a lot of the support of the movie within the fanbase is down to hype and peer pressure.
*You're a very angry man who doesn't seem to realize that the article was intended to be one giant ''joke'' where we mock our own fanboyishness (word?). Seek help. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 18:47, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
*I love the assumption that people who pour their time and energy into the wiki aren't fans, but people whose only interest is to scream and whine until they get banned from the big message boards (and I don't know who this guy is, but COME ON) are the real fans. And it's all everyone else's fault but his. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 18:54, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

: Hold on, why is the other "joke" acceptable and not mine? Mine is much more "Jokey" in tone. You mean "seek help" because I fail to conform to your side of the supposed "humour". I've found in my experience on sites like ED that these kind of articles are often a lot more genuine than they seem, with some light tone tacked on so they can get away with it on the grounds of parody. You're not mocking yourselves - people like Walky, Sipher, while sometimes mocking themselves in different ways, set themselves out from the people they mock or "correct". There is a split between between "Fanboy" and "Anti-fan" which is very similiar to the supporters and detractors of the movie. This article is a result of that split - it's not fans making fun of themselves, it's fans making fun of other fans.
*That fact that you said a guy who wrote this was writting Child Pornoprophy set off a few alarms. Then there's is that fact that it came of vitriolic and with more swearing that one would expect from a series aimed toward kids. That's where you may need to seek help. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 18:53, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

* The Child Pornography thing was a joke, since "Shortpacked" sounds like a euphanism(fudge packing, children are short, whatever). It was just something I dropped in to show that what I'd written was somewhat tounge in cheek, and also to dislodge the idea that Shortpacked itself should be taken as the accurate, witty observational humour some people make it out to be.. I can always change that, but I doubt enough children use this Wiki to notice. Not that you care - your recent actions prove you're biased as hell with no respect for decent argument or opposition.

Okay, seriously, Walky, stop it. It isn't funny anymore to pretend to be a complete idiot who compares your comic to child porn.

Okay, maybe its a little funny, but its irritating that it needs clean up so often.

: Walky would never post something like this since it contains near-irrefutable points against some of his arguments. Not to mention you're using his tactics trying to discredit someone by calling them an "idiot" instead of proving their argument wrong.

Seriously, Willis, we get it by now.

Ha ha, fake person even thinks their arguments have merit. The joke's getting old.

==Okay seriously, what to do with this page?==

Since the above section was derailed, let's get down to it. What should this article be?

As funny as I think the venting was, I just don't think it benefits the wiki as a whole. I think we'd be better off with a more neutral opening paragraph, a link to [[Transformers timeline]], the existing link to the Fandom category, and nothing else.

I further think that while adding/restoring the funny to this article should be encouragedn any vandalism to support a particular viewpoint (which the original article didn't even do) should be bannable. Same goes for anyone who wants to spam us about their awesome message board which is totally the hub of all TF fandom. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 19:18, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Okay, sounds reasonable so-far, with maybe a warning first. Still doesn't solve the central argument. [[User:chiasaur11|chiasaur11]] 12:21, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Wow. Is this what the thoughts of someone with Asperger's sound like? One that really gets me is "You are the dirt beneath Aaron Archer's feat. (sic)" Have you ever been to a [[BotCon]]? I just can't imagine how a fan could have ever spoken to someone like Archer or [[Greg Lombardo]] - as a human being, not as a Santa Claus machine to request future gifts from - and have seething hatred like this. They're hard-working, creative people who go to work in the morning trying to make the most fun, highest-quality lines possible. Then anywhere from nine months to a well over a year before their upcoming work hits and has a chance to win over kids and general audiences, the fans start ripping into it with full vitriol on the basis of the earliest images and, year after year, build up snarling personal loathing for them individually. Nothing makes you look worse than heaping hatred on living, breathing people because they didn't put out the exact toys you want. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 19:22, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:: Rotty, you have no sense of humour. And remember, sense of humour isn't just what you find funny but also how much leeway you're willing to give other people's attempts at being so. There is no hatred directed towards Mr. Archer here. It's meant to be a parody of the way in which some people make it out like fans shouldn't matter in the least when it comes to how Hasbro(or Paramount) do things. It is pretty obvious to anyone that understands the terminology. Of course Mr. Archer does not treat people like that, it's part of the absurdity. And please do not keep reverting my contributions. It's just getting very immature.<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Fandom

2007-08-03T19:26:39Z

159.134.163.42: /* Okay seriously, what to do with this page? */

That IP address was me. I figured since you have this entry just ''dripping'' with snark including "Bayformers", it should include the inexplicable fan belief that early G1 had more realistic representations of extraterrestrial robots, even though the toy engineers made them to look like the human-built piloted mecha they were in their original toy lines. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 18:30, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:Oooh. Your edit didn't say anything about extraterrestrials, so, I totally didn't know where you were going. I personally prefer the line more brief, without bringing that part in, but, I don't feel real strongly about it. If you put it back in I might edit the phrasing to make it more to my liking, though. :) --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 19:07, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I ''know'' that someone from Hasbro (Whatshername, the exec who used to work for Power Rangers?) mentioned at some point that they estimate that X% of Transformers toys are bought by adult collectors- and I ''think'' it was 20. That should probably be in here.

I admit, I find the tone of this article unnecessarily harsh. I'd like to see it either moderated, or to have [[Fans]] and [[Fandom]] made two separate articles, with most of the negative aspects assigned to fandom. (Which I think is a fair division of blame- you still hear stories of hardcore transfans who run into the occasional hardcore solo-fan who has no clue about the 'net, conventions etc. The ''really'' nasty negative aspects of fans are almost all ''group behaviors'' that feed on themselves and doesn't exist in individuals if a fan is removed from fandom.)

...oh my god, I just articulated a [[Wikipedia:Romanticism|romantacist]] belief in the fundamental goodness of humanity and the corrupting influence of society on individuals. '''KILL ME NOW! DO IT BEFORE I SPREAD PEACE AND LOVE ALL OVER THE WIKI!''' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:54, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

::::Was that Michelle Fields? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:44, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

::I also greatly dislike the tone of this article. It gives the impression that we here at this Wiki somehow stand separate and apart from the "fandom" which it sarcastically ridicules. Were it up to me, everything on this page but the short History section would be removed. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 02:46, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

:I find this article totally hilarious and that it contains quite a lot of truths. {{unsigned|210.49.121.202}}

I'm okay with the link. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 03:36, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I admit to being a little surprised at the negative reactions, as this is all stuff that's already written in various places on this wiki. Still, I recognize that if my only supporter is an anonymous string of numbers, I apparently just have a weird opinion on it. I just talked to Walky about it and he said the sarcastic "accomplishments"list could maybe be preserved if it were just a small part of a large, otherwise focusing-on-the-positive article. That sounds okay to me... I'd kind of like to keep at least ''some'' of the list in there, but, again, I seemingly have no perception of how vicious what I wrote is, so maybe it should be totally scrapped. For now I'll call shenanigans on myself while we decide what to do. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 03:54, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
:Keep it. I read some seriously ridiculous crap in the past week that makes this page DESERVE existence. Oh yeah, and it needs a mention of terrible fanfiction in there, since nothing is free from terrible fanfiction.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 05:35, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
:: This article is just full of win. Reading it totally made my day. I say keep it. [[User:Detour|Detour]] 06:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

:I don't have a problem witht he negativity of the article per-se... it just seems kinda ''down'' on fans unless there's some contrasting material to balance it out. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:51, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

::Pretty much all of the snark and negativity on display in the current version is depressingly close to the truth, but I for one would certainly like to see it balanced out with stuff about the more positive aspects of TF fandom. --[[User:TVsGrady|TVsGrady]] 00:17, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

::It currently bears an uncanny resemblence to Encyclopedia Dramatica. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 08:02, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

It has been my observation that other fandoms, particularly the GI Joe fandom (probably owing to TF's close relationship with Joe), think TF fans are absolutely fucking insane. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:48, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
:The Sonic The Hedgehog fandom makes Transformers, G. I. Joe or basically anyone else look like rank amateurs in the insanity department. I am dead serious as hilarious as it might sound. Death threats and talk of character rape is how you say "hello" over there.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 04:52, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I am in favor of the article staying in its present state, as a reminder against such foolish behavior. It made my day reading the Fandom section, and under the management's rule that "THE FUNNY STAYS.", it should be here. [[User:Ronimus Prime|Ronimus Prime]] 03:51, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I say keep it. It reminds fans not to take themselves too seriously. In fact, maybe even add a note on the whole "Who is Cyclonus" thing. [[User:67.160.13.149|67.160.13.149]] 22:39, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

This whole page sounds like another one of Walky's idiotic rants against the fandom. Snore. Why don't people make fun of the anti-fans like Walky more often, when the things they say and do are far more ridiculous as they can't be defended by "Well, he's a crazy fan"?

==There==

Now it is fair and balanced.

==What to do with this page?==

As this page has, as was pretty much inevitable, now gotten worse and even MORE ueseless, I would like to re-iterate my previous position that everything other than the brief history section should be removed. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 18:32, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:If we're going to keep the page at all, I think we should keep our new friend's contribution. Don't edit it or clean it up, leave it at his reading level. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 18:36, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
:The page should never have existed anyway, and since there's no justification for removing this anonymous crybaby's sixth-grade ranting about how the smart kids don't like him without removing the part making fun of the shit-for-brains who make up the loudest part of this and every fandom, I agree that it should be minimized or removed. Any sufficiently official and important aspect of fandom (ie BotCon) has its own place on the wiki anyway. -[[User:LV|LV]] 18:58, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:: The Guys I'm ranting about are the "smart kids"? You're kidding, right? For a start, if they were the smarter ones, their arguments would be the more detailed ones. The fact that mine trailed on is simply down to the fact that I've spent more time on my arguments. How are the people whining about the fans any better? What's wrong with complaining? Why do you have to attach weighted terms in it? And if I'm so dumb, how did I know I'd be able to catch you out like this, as you say, you can't remove mine without removing his?

:::That you admit that it's ranting is enough. Veil your complaints in sarcasm and witty banter and we'll talk.--[[User:Carrion|Carrion]] 18:55, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:::The fact that you trailed on is a testament to how boring you are, kid. Brevity is the soul of wit. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 18:51, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

::Well, I for one would like to see this page actually turned into something ''useful''. It could have information on the fandom references in Beast Wars, the fan artists and writers who have gone on to do official work, things like that. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 18:40, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

As absolutely ''fucking hilarious'' as the page just became, I agree with the above notions. We either need to delete the whole schebang (frankly, I never found the page to really be necessary at all to begin with) or, as Kil notes, take the route of making it a "hub" page for the big fan-stuff turned "official", with a note about its GENERAL history (starting on USENET, move to messageboards, MUSHes, etc). --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 18:46, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

::: I'd rather we leave it exactly as it is, with both arguments. However, there shouldn't be an artificial argument here. The person with the most convincing argument should be allowed to have it shine if it really is more convincing.

::: And I honestly believe there is just much more "shit" on the fan-haters than the fans themselves. They really are a joke.

::: I don't mean it to be too horribly mean since a lot of my friends do engage in some of the things I list, but considering what I was responding to, and the level of bullying in the community, I really did feel a no-holds barred rebuttal was necessary. There is already enough of this rubbish within the fandom itself, if this place is so seperate it should know better. The most ridiculous thing about the fandom is without about those within it who are bitter, horrid and vicious in their criticism of their fellow fans. No amount of complaining about Michael Bay or Bumblebee not being a VW can ever compete with that, and it's about time the fandom started realising it.

::: I genuinely feel that some people have gone much too far, and don't realise or don't care about the damage they're doing on the community. Boards like TFW2005 and Allspark are far too strict for there ever to be any kind of "Uprising". If there is to be any kind of opposition, or at least equal footing with these people, it needs to be here, where it's lax. I do have little reason to respect people like Walky as long as they continue to mock and spread bile about me and people who share my views directly and indirectly through their "humour" or message board posts.

::: I will consider removing some of the harsher ones, like the one about people liking the movie. I actually quite liked the movie but I was bothered by the scrap-heap designs and poor script and humour. It just really bothers me that something that's objectively not the greatest thing ever is pushed on people in the manner that it is throughout the fandom. I remain adamant that a lot of the support of the movie within the fanbase is down to hype and peer pressure.
*You're a very angry man who doesn't seem to realize that the article was intended to be one giant ''joke'' where we mock our own fanboyishness (word?). Seek help. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 18:47, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
*I love the assumption that people who pour their time and energy into the wiki aren't fans, but people whose only interest is to scream and whine until they get banned from the big message boards (and I don't know who this guy is, but COME ON) are the real fans. And it's all everyone else's fault but his. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 18:54, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

: Hold on, why is the other "joke" acceptable and not mine? Mine is much more "Jokey" in tone. You mean "seek help" because I fail to conform to your side of the supposed "humour". I've found in my experience on sites like ED that these kind of articles are often a lot more genuine than they seem, with some light tone tacked on so they can get away with it on the grounds of parody. You're not mocking yourselves - people like Walky, Sipher, while sometimes mocking themselves in different ways, set themselves out from the people they mock or "correct". There is a split between between "Fanboy" and "Anti-fan" which is very similiar to the supporters and detractors of the movie. This article is a result of that split - it's not fans making fun of themselves, it's fans making fun of other fans.
*That fact that you said a guy who wrote this was writting Child Pornoprophy set off a few alarms. Then there's is that fact that it came of vitriolic and with more swearing that one would expect from a series aimed toward kids. That's where you may need to seek help. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 18:53, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

* The Child Pornography thing was a joke, since "Shortpacked" sounds like a euphanism(fudge packing, children are short, whatever). It was just something I dropped in to show that what I'd written was somewhat tounge in cheek, and also to dislodge the idea that Shortpacked itself should be taken as the accurate, witty observational humour some people make it out to be.. I can always change that, but I doubt enough children use this Wiki to notice. Not that you care - your recent actions prove you're biased as hell with no respect for decent argument or opposition.

Okay, seriously, Walky, stop it. It isn't funny anymore to pretend to be a complete idiot who compares your comic to child porn.

Okay, maybe its a little funny, but its irritating that it needs clean up so often.

: Walky would never post something like this since it contains near-irrefutable points against some of his arguments. Not to mention you're using his tactics trying to discredit someone by calling them an "idiot" instead of proving their argument wrong.

Seriously, Willis, we get it by now.

Ha ha, fake person even thinks their arguments have merit. The joke's getting old.

==Okay seriously, what to do with this page?==

Since the above section was derailed, let's get down to it. What should this article be?

As funny as I think the venting was, I just don't think it benefits the wiki as a whole. I think we'd be better off with a more neutral opening paragraph, a link to [[Transformers timeline]], the existing link to the Fandom category, and nothing else.

I further think that while adding/restoring the funny to this article should be encouragedn any vandalism to support a particular viewpoint (which the original article didn't even do) should be bannable. Same goes for anyone who wants to spam us about their awesome message board which is totally the hub of all TF fandom. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 19:18, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Okay, sounds reasonable so-far, with maybe a warning first. Still doesn't solve the central argument. [[User:chiasaur11|chiasaur11]] 12:21, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Wow. Is this what the thoughts of someone with Asperger's sound like? One that really gets me is "You are the dirt beneath Aaron Archer's feat. (sic)" Have you ever been to a [[BotCon]]? I just can't imagine how a fan could have ever spoken to someone like Archer or [[Greg Lombardo]] - as a human being, not as a Santa Claus machine to request future gifts from - and have seething hatred like this. They're hard-working, creative people who go to work in the morning trying to make the most fun, highest-quality lines possible. Then anywhere from nine months to a well over a year before their upcoming work hits and has a chance to win over kids and general audiences, the fans start ripping into it with full vitriol on the basis of the earliest images and, year after year, build up snarling personal loathing for them individually. Nothing makes you look worse than heaping hatred on living, breathing people because they didn't put out the exact toys you want. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 19:22, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:: Rotty, you have no sense of humour. And remember, sense of humour isn't just what you find funny but also how much leeway you're willing to give other people's attempts at being so. There is no hatred directed towards Mr. Archer here. It's meant to be a parody of the way in which some people make it out like fans shouldn't matter in the least when it comes to how Hasbro(or Paramount) do things. And please do not keep reverting my contributions. It's just getting very immature.<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Fandom

2007-08-03T19:23:48Z

159.134.163.42: Getting rid of stuff you disagree with, you mean. What I wrote is no worse than the original article.

Shortpacking

2007-08-03T19:20:38Z

159.134.163.42:

A toy is said to be '''shortpacked''' when it is shipped in signifigantly lower numbers than the rest of its release wave.

A toy that is shortpacked is typically harder to find than other toys from the same assortment, since there are fewer of it produced. This rarity also makes it attractive to scalpers. If a shortpacked toy is also a highly desirable one to fans and/or collectors (for instance, if it represents a popular character who is rarely produced as a toy), then it can become ''extremely'' difficult to obtain.

Sometimes, toys which are shortpacked in one wave are released in greater numbers in a later wave, which tends to really piss off the collectors who bought from the scalpers, and delight those who didn't.

While inspiring similar feelings for many fans, shortpacking should not be confused with [[Chase figure|chase figures]] which are aimed exclusively at collectors and generally and intentionally much rarer (a shortpacked toy may be 2 per case while a chase figure may be as little as 1 per every 2 cases)

[[Category: Toys]]

Don't like Shortpacking? Blame the [[Carbombya|TERRORISTS]].<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Shortpacking

2007-08-03T19:17:06Z

159.134.163.42:

A toy is said to be '''shortpacked''' when it is shipped in signifigantly lower numbers than the rest of its release wave.

A toy that is shortpacked is typically harder to find than other toys from the same assortment, since there are fewer of it produced. This rarity also makes it attractive to scalpers. If a shortpacked toy is also a highly desirable one to fans and/or collectors (for instance, if it represents a popular character who is rarely produced as a toy), then it can become ''extremely'' difficult to obtain.

Sometimes, toys which are shortpacked in one wave are released in greater numbers in a later wave, which tends to really piss off the collectors who bought from the scalpers, and delight those who didn't.

While inspiring similar feelings for many fans, shortpacking should not be confused with [[Chase figure|chase figures]] which are aimed exclusively at collectors and generally and intentionally much rarer (a shortpacked toy may be 2 per case while a chase figure may be as little as 1 per every 2 cases)

[[Category: Toys]]

Don't like Shortpacking? Blame the [[Carbomya|TERRORISTS]].<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Shortpacking

2007-08-03T19:16:33Z

159.134.163.42:

A toy is said to be '''shortpacked''' when it is shipped in signifigantly lower numbers than the rest of its release wave.

A toy that is shortpacked is typically harder to find than other toys from the same assortment, since there are fewer of it produced. This rarity also makes it attractive to scalpers. If a shortpacked toy is also a highly desirable one to fans and/or collectors (for instance, if it represents a popular character who is rarely produced as a toy), then it can become ''extremely'' difficult to obtain.

Sometimes, toys which are shortpacked in one wave are released in greater numbers in a later wave, which tends to really piss off the collectors who bought from the scalpers, and delight those who didn't.

While inspiring similar feelings for many fans, shortpacking should not be confused with [[Chase figure|chase figures]] which are aimed exclusively at collectors and generally and intentionally much rarer (a shortpacked toy may be 2 per case while a chase figure may be as little as 1 per every 2 cases)

[[Category: Toys]]

Don't like Shortpacking? Blame the [[TERRORISTS|Carbomya]].<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Ruined FOREVER

2007-08-03T19:14:28Z

159.134.163.42:

[[Image:Ruined_forever.jpg|thumb|250px|We believe in regular Preparedness Drills]]
[[Fans]] realize something [[Hasbro]] does not, that [[Transformers brand|robust 20-year-old billion-dollar franchises]], while seemingly healthy, are in actuality as fragile as two bricks tied together with tissue paper. One mistake, one bad mis-step will cause the entire thing to [[Gold Plastic Syndrome|shatter]] and fall apart; and '''Transformers would be ruined forever'''.

Fortunately, there ''is'' hope. The Transformers fanbase has resolved to remain ''ever vigilant'' against something that could Ruin Transformers Forever, and call out warning if they see something that could potentially do so.

Some Transformers conservationists suggest a more extreme approach, that Transformers should [[Wikipedia:Mickey Mouse|abandon all attempts at re-invention]] and instead [[Wikipedia:Masters of the Universe|cater exclusively to the old-school collectors]]. Though attractive, this approach may prove [[G.I. Joe|impractical as a long-term solution]].

Ruined Forever remains a serious threat to Transformers now and in the foreseeable future, though it's possible a proposed initiative requiring all Transformers fans to purchase an annual "[[Wikipedia:Carbon offset|plastic offset]]" could ensure our fragile brand's existence through the mid-21st century.

Of course, when people say "Ruined", they generally mean the integrity of the characters and fiction. In which case, it's somewhat true, as Armada set a lower precedent for the series to follow(as did Car Robots to an extent). Ironically, the reason that the movie didn't have the same alteration was because some dirty FANS were involved in the making of Animated.
For some reason, the person in this article seems to mostly think in terms of MAHOOLA. Odd stuff. Must be an Oil Tycoon.

==Things that have '''Ruined Transformers Forever''' in the past==
* [[The Transformers: The Movie (1986)|Death of Optimus Prime]]
* [[Generation 1 (toyline)#1987|The new toys]]
* [[Generation 2|The old toys]]
* [[Beast Wars|Munkies]]
* [[Beast Machines|Bob Skir]]
* [[Robots in Disguise|Anime]]
* [[JaAm|Dreamwave]]
* [[Fans|The Fans]]
* [[Armada (cartoon)|Pokeformers]]
* [[Armada (toyline)|Success]]
* [[Aaron Archer|Closing Orson's World]]
* [[Energon (cartoon)|Voicebox]]
* [[The Beast Within]]
* [[Glen Hallit]]
* [[Kiss Players|Japan]]
* [[Transformers (2007)|America]]
* [[Michael Bay|Bayformers]]
* [[Transformers Animated|Teen Titans]]

In other words, pretty much everything...

[[Category: Fandom]]
[[Category: Things that don't exist]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Fandom

2007-08-03T19:11:05Z

159.134.163.42: /* The Anti-Fans */

Fandom

2007-08-03T19:05:19Z

159.134.163.42: Now you're just being childish. If you remove mine, you have to remove the "Accomplishments".

{{shenanigans|It's apparently really mean?}}

The '''Transformers fandom''' is the most intelligent, discerning, sophisticated and important group of people in the world today. Without their charitable support, [[Hasbro]] would be forced to mothball the ''Transformers'' brand and would probably enter bankruptcy, taking the entire world economy with it.

==Accomplishments==

Among the amazing discoveries and conclusions of the fandom are the following:

*The ''Transformers'' brand is hanging onto life by the most fragile of threads, and any attempt to do something new will [[Ruined FOREVER|ruin ''Transformers'' forever]].
*Liking things is stupid. If you had half a brain you would realize how terrible everything is and complain about it endlessly. Further, this is rational and constructive behavior. Hasblo will never learn and get things right if we don't save them by telling them how stupid they are.
*Literally everybody hates [[Playskool]]ish [[neon]] colors, therefore toys will sell better if they are [[black repaint|entirely black]].
*Any feature included or removed [[for safety reasons]] is a slap in the face to [[true fan]]s.
*Children are not an important segment of the ''Transformers'' market.
*[[Prototype]]s and test shots that are clearly stamped with the words "not for sale" are actually totally fine to buy over eBay from people in China. There is nothing remotely shady about this.
*It is possible to determine with complete certainty that a product/franchise/work of art will suck as much as eight months before said entity is completed, much less shown to the public or actually released.
*The most important thing for the brand to do is release homages of ''[[Generation 1]]'' characters over and over and over and over and over.
*Any homage of a ''Generation 1'' character which is not given the [[Trademark|name]] of the original character is a direct insult to all fans.
*Any character which is given the name of a ''Generation 1'' character which is not an homage to the original character is a direct insult to all fans.
*Any character which is given the name of a ''Generation 1'' character and is also an homage of the same character but who doesn't behave exactly like the ''Generation 1'' character is a direct insult to all fans.
*Because all fans have an inalienable right to own every toy, toys which would never be released under normal circumstances should never be given a chance at release through [[exclusive]] channels. It would be better for the toy to never be released at all than for some people to get to enjoy it.
*Optimus is a [[trukk not munky|truck, not a monkey]].
*[[Armada (cartoon)|''Armada'']]? I think you mean ''Pokéformers''.
*[[Movie (franchise)|Bayformers]] are much less realistic than ''Generation 1'' Transformers.
* [[Dreamwave]]'s artwork was AWESOME as long as sales were high. Once the company started going downhill, everyone had suddenly always been fully aware how AWFUL [[Pat Lee|Superstar Funana]]'s art was right from the start.
*Japan is much more important and profitable market than North America. Nobody likes Europe, not even Hasbro.
*[[Takara]] products are always superior.
*Hasbro ruins everything Takara does.

==The Anti-Fans==

They obviously wrote the above "Parody", so let's see if they can take the heat.

The Anti-Fans are a group of insecure 20-30 something year olds who believe taking a more pessimistic, corporate worshipining position somehow makes you more mature. They operate on the larger boards, especially TFW2005 and Allspark which have very strict moderation; so they can get away with being very annoying without anyone attacking them or pointing out they're full of rubbish. They seem to make a living off mocking gripes of the fandom, because like, come on, what's more immature than collecting children's toys and complaining about them? Probably complainining incessantly about fans. But that's not the point!

The most famous Anti-Fans include It'sWalky, author of the Child Pornography comic strip [i]Shortpacked[/i], Khan, and Ben Stiller.

==Beliefs and Practices:==

* Hasbro are YOUR GODS. They're not 100% perfect, since you have to think they have one or two minor, insignifcant flaws just so you can say "I don't worship Hasbro!" after you just spend 300 words tearing into anyone who points out Classic Starscream's deco looks like shit.

* The movie is to be revered as the best thing that ever happened to the fandom. They were doing us a favour by completely disregarding the original designs and personalities of the some the original characters, hiring one of the most "MTV" directors in Hollywood, giving Optimus Prime lips and out-of-character flames, and only listening to the fanbase on the most blatantly stupid things like removing Arcee(which, apparently, an awful lot of people regret after seeing her design, it was pretty obviously just out of a "Boy's Club, no girls allowed" mentality no matter what "Girl robots are weird, what do you mean robots with noses" argument that comes after).

* Anyone who hates the movie is a "hater", according to Don Murphy, Nelson, and the easily impressionable half of the fanbase that picked up on this bizarre form of viral marketting, and should be boiled alive. Apprently, disliking and liking something are not the flip side of the same coin as we've been led to believe. Oh no. If you hate things, it makes you evil, since it's easier on the peons' brains to think "Hate=Bad" than considering any level of complication.

* Going by this reasoning, the sheer prospect of Mariah Carey releasing a new album would generate enough Evil to raise Stalin, Saddam Hussein and Hitler's moustache from the dead. And turn Simon Cowell into some kind of fire breathing Demigod.

* Generation one was, like, cool in the 80s man, but it's no good now. I mean haven't you see the cartoon!? The like, plot is totally whack. I don't know exactly where but this guy told me and I think I kind of remember something about the Constructicons not being explained. The several hundred issue Marvel comic alternately does not exist, or is shit(without any explanation as to why, of course). This is why there are still constant slews of toys, comics, wallclocks and lampshades based on G1, yet comparitvely nothing on the much less well recieved Armada series - just to rub it in our faces how rubbish it is.

* Constant fixation on the TAKARA SUPERIOR thing, failing to realise that most fans consider both Hasbro and Takara equally hokey.

* Outright ignoring the fact that Hasbro fails to release slews of Transformers related product in Europe, and charges 2 to 3 times for it, for no logical reason, which harms sales horribly. Hasbro know what they're doing! I mean how do stay on top if they keep fucking up!? It's not as if they have brands like Transformers, GiJoe, and Marvel Legends that millions of kids and collectors will buy no matter what!

* Collectors do not matter. YOU do not matter. What you want does not matter. It is WRONG to fantasise, or want to be treated fairly for your lifelong support of Hasbro/Takaras product. You are the dirt beneath Aaron Archer's feat. You deserve to be rolled up and smoked by Don Murphy, or spend the rest of your days cleaning Michael Bay's enormous penis.

* Failing to realise that you probably should do what the collectors want, since kids will buy it anyway and feel all grown up buying collectory stuff.

* Instead of forming logical arguments as to why Transformers fans are so ridiculous; just make a shitty comic where a character based on the author gets increasingly angry at a misrepresentation of a particular practice of the fandom. This gains you loyal followers to do your arguing for you, but also makes you look like a bit of twat.

* Believing that the movie was anything more than a badly scripted Popcorn flick that invetibly broke all kinds of records simply due to the fact that it had lots of stuff blowing up in new and exciting ways, or claiming that Transformers could NEVER have been anything more than a rubbishy Popcorn flick, with no reason as to why. Once again, the Marvel comic book does not exist.

* The designs had to be changed to get across the idea that this is a bold, new, grown up Transformers, yet the plot and jokes are just about as immature as you can get.

* The new designs are the only way the Transformers could work in live action. Don't you remember all the complaints about the Ice-skating Transformer and how shit did!? Well we were all thinking it! We have absolutely no evidence to prove it but... it just looks SO cartoony!

* Literally translating "G1 based" to mean taking the cartoon models. rendering them in 3D and sticking them in a movie with some cheap shaders on. I have no idea how ANYONE could be stupid enough to think that's what fans want, especially since half the fun of a movie is to see how they tweak the designs, but what have you.

* Following from the last point, failing to realise the other half of the fun of a movie is to see the characters we've grown to know and love in a movie. As long as it's GIANT ROBOTS THAT FUCKING TRANSFORM, it's Transformers. Not Gobots. Or Roadbots. Or Macross. Or those Gundams that sort of Transform.

* The bizarre notion that people actually think for themselves when being blasted full on with Hollywood hype designed to do exactly the opposite, and that anyone trying to get someone else to re-asses their own opinion is being a total NAZI.

* If it makes a lot of money, it's good and was done by geniuses. Generally, right wing economics are aces. This is probably why Hasbro rip off Sweden on the cost of Transformers, obviously, to prove that socialism could never work.

* Change is good. Any change. For any reason. G1 should be left behind where it is. I mean, it's not as if Spider-man, X-men, Fantastic Four and other similiarly ridiculous comic booky type things have remained in the same universe for decades.

* The argument that if something changes, the reason for someone being a fan of it may no longer be there, doesn't hold water. They just ignore it and make more comics about TAKARA SUPERIOR.

* PLASTIC. Constantly making fun of anyone who suggests that certain Transformer toys look "playskooly". The reason for this is that many Transformers toys appear "cheap" because of the use of somewhat translucent plastics which swallow details, and often in poor/unsuitable colour choices(some of Classics, a lot of Armada) which only appears to have been recently corrected(since the Animated toys use less detail). Anti-fans never really deal with this properly, going off on some stupid tangent or just making fun of the very assertion that a greedy corporate entity would cheap out on plastic or deco designers. Pointing out that Hasbro's Marvel Legends shows the same symptoms as their Transformers did, and that other lines had much better paint apps for your money, gets them very angry, and to claim incredible knowledge of the toy making procedure, yet never sharing it with any of us, especially the bit of how it's so much different for Hasbro than it is for Toybiz. Eventually, they just call you insane and ignore you, since nobody has to defend their weakly formulated support of sub-par toys to an insane person.
The reason the PLASTIC thing is the one that comes up the most often is that it's the most blatantly obviously true, so it takes a lot more delusional ranting to cover it up than other things.

* They almost always make out the cry for better paint apps to mean "EVERYTHING IN BLACK". Which is kind of funny, because these people also tend to support the movie, which has the motto EVERYTHING IN BLACK OR GREY. Attempting to improve the paint apps on Transformers will have them suddenly turn into Spawn figures, probably due to the evil magics of the GEEWUNNERS.

* This general irritating idea that "Generation 1" was just a phase of Transformers, and not the original, defining series. The fact that it was the only universe that was truly expanded through twice as many cartoons, hundreds of comics, hundreds of toys, and that pierced the mainstream and is still often harkened back to today, doesn't matter in their quest to feel more mature and piss on everyone that's stuck in the 80s. Because our current generation is SO MUCH more exciting. With all the crappy consumerism and cheesy pop music in our current era, it's nothing at all like the 80s with iPods and crappier non-mainstream bands.

* Failure to pay attention that Beast Wars was an entirely different context to G1, so many of the same defenses for it do not apply to the movie/other new cartoons.

* Names mean nothing and can be assigned to any character at any time. For instance, it would have been acceptable to call a short black guy with purple Mascara "Optimus Prime" in the movie, and it wouldn't have ruined Prime's public image, at all.

* Starscream is a rubbish character and the only interesting part of him that he's a traitor. All the millions of fans he has don't count since they're all gays and girls.

==History==

It got its start as an organized entity in the 1980s through the establishment of unofficial fan clubs, most notably [[TransMasters]], but it wasn't until the mid-1990s and the beginning of the Internet boom that fandom (both of Transformers and in general) took off. Starting in [[alt.toys.transformers]] and then expanding into innumerable web-based fora, the once tight-knit fandom is now too large for anyone to really know everyone. But would you really want to?

==External links==
*[http://www.shortpacked.com/ Shortpacked!] - A webcomic which frequently documents the academic findings of various fandoms.

[[Category:Fandom| ]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

User talk:159.134.163.42

2007-08-03T19:03:26Z

159.134.163.42:

So, can we start a ban him chant, or does someone want him around as some kind of advanced joke culminating in a hi-larious reveal of the fact it was (insert name here) the whole time.

: Why? I've done nothing wrong. You're the only one doing something wrong by trying to block someone's access to the site who's done nothing wrong. That's pretty nasty, actually. You do realise this shows up as a "New message" for me too, right? Pretty un-covert if you're trying to talk over my head. And very disrespectful if you knew what you were doing. I really can't see any way of looking at this situation that casts you as the good guy.
*This isn't the right way to start a dialogue, Chiasaur11. But seriously, just tone it down a little. The image I'm getting of you is someone who is starting to foam at the mouth. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 19:01, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

* No, but I am someone who's laughing quite a bit. I and some other of my friends have been pissed on a lot on forums and it's somewhat amusing to see people defending this kind of nonsense and really not succeeding even when they have a majority.<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Fandom

2007-08-03T19:02:06Z

159.134.163.42:

That IP address was me. I figured since you have this entry just ''dripping'' with snark including "Bayformers", it should include the inexplicable fan belief that early G1 had more realistic representations of extraterrestrial robots, even though the toy engineers made them to look like the human-built piloted mecha they were in their original toy lines. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 18:30, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:Oooh. Your edit didn't say anything about extraterrestrials, so, I totally didn't know where you were going. I personally prefer the line more brief, without bringing that part in, but, I don't feel real strongly about it. If you put it back in I might edit the phrasing to make it more to my liking, though. :) --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 19:07, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I ''know'' that someone from Hasbro (Whatshername, the exec who used to work for Power Rangers?) mentioned at some point that they estimate that X% of Transformers toys are bought by adult collectors- and I ''think'' it was 20. That should probably be in here.

I admit, I find the tone of this article unnecessarily harsh. I'd like to see it either moderated, or to have [[Fans]] and [[Fandom]] made two separate articles, with most of the negative aspects assigned to fandom. (Which I think is a fair division of blame- you still hear stories of hardcore transfans who run into the occasional hardcore solo-fan who has no clue about the 'net, conventions etc. The ''really'' nasty negative aspects of fans are almost all ''group behaviors'' that feed on themselves and doesn't exist in individuals if a fan is removed from fandom.)

...oh my god, I just articulated a [[Wikipedia:Romanticism|romantacist]] belief in the fundamental goodness of humanity and the corrupting influence of society on individuals. '''KILL ME NOW! DO IT BEFORE I SPREAD PEACE AND LOVE ALL OVER THE WIKI!''' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:54, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

::::Was that Michelle Fields? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:44, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

::I also greatly dislike the tone of this article. It gives the impression that we here at this Wiki somehow stand separate and apart from the "fandom" which it sarcastically ridicules. Were it up to me, everything on this page but the short History section would be removed. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 02:46, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

:I find this article totally hilarious and that it contains quite a lot of truths. {{unsigned|210.49.121.202}}

I'm okay with the link. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 03:36, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I admit to being a little surprised at the negative reactions, as this is all stuff that's already written in various places on this wiki. Still, I recognize that if my only supporter is an anonymous string of numbers, I apparently just have a weird opinion on it. I just talked to Walky about it and he said the sarcastic "accomplishments"list could maybe be preserved if it were just a small part of a large, otherwise focusing-on-the-positive article. That sounds okay to me... I'd kind of like to keep at least ''some'' of the list in there, but, again, I seemingly have no perception of how vicious what I wrote is, so maybe it should be totally scrapped. For now I'll call shenanigans on myself while we decide what to do. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 03:54, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
:Keep it. I read some seriously ridiculous crap in the past week that makes this page DESERVE existence. Oh yeah, and it needs a mention of terrible fanfiction in there, since nothing is free from terrible fanfiction.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 05:35, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
:: This article is just full of win. Reading it totally made my day. I say keep it. [[User:Detour|Detour]] 06:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

:I don't have a problem witht he negativity of the article per-se... it just seems kinda ''down'' on fans unless there's some contrasting material to balance it out. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:51, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

::Pretty much all of the snark and negativity on display in the current version is depressingly close to the truth, but I for one would certainly like to see it balanced out with stuff about the more positive aspects of TF fandom. --[[User:TVsGrady|TVsGrady]] 00:17, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

::It currently bears an uncanny resemblence to Encyclopedia Dramatica. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 08:02, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

It has been my observation that other fandoms, particularly the GI Joe fandom (probably owing to TF's close relationship with Joe), think TF fans are absolutely fucking insane. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:48, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
:The Sonic The Hedgehog fandom makes Transformers, G. I. Joe or basically anyone else look like rank amateurs in the insanity department. I am dead serious as hilarious as it might sound. Death threats and talk of character rape is how you say "hello" over there.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 04:52, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I am in favor of the article staying in its present state, as a reminder against such foolish behavior. It made my day reading the Fandom section, and under the management's rule that "THE FUNNY STAYS.", it should be here. [[User:Ronimus Prime|Ronimus Prime]] 03:51, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I say keep it. It reminds fans not to take themselves too seriously. In fact, maybe even add a note on the whole "Who is Cyclonus" thing. [[User:67.160.13.149|67.160.13.149]] 22:39, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

This whole page sounds like another one of Walky's idiotic rants against the fandom. Snore. Why don't people make fun of the anti-fans like Walky more often, when the things they say and do are far more ridiculous as they can't be defended by "Well, he's a crazy fan"?

==There==

Now it is fair and balanced.

==What to do with this page?==

As this page has, as was pretty much inevitable, now gotten worse and even MORE ueseless, I would like to re-iterate my previous position that everything other than the brief history section should be removed. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 18:32, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:If we're going to keep the page at all, I think we should keep our new friend's contribution. Don't edit it or clean it up, leave it at his reading level. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 18:36, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
:The page should never have existed anyway, and since there's no justification for removing this anonymous crybaby's sixth-grade ranting about how the smart kids don't like him without removing the part making fun of the shit-for-brains who make up the loudest part of this and every fandom, I agree that it should be minimized or removed. Any sufficiently official and important aspect of fandom (ie BotCon) has its own place on the wiki anyway. -[[User:LV|LV]] 18:58, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:: The Guys I'm ranting about are the "smart kids"? You're kidding, right? For a start, if they were the smarter ones, their arguments would be the more detailed ones. The fact that mine trailed on is simply down to the fact that I've spent more time on my arguments. How are the people whining about the fans any better? What's wrong with complaining? Why do you have to attach weighted terms in it? And if I'm so dumb, how did I know I'd be able to catch you out like this, as you say, you can't remove mine without removing his?

:::That you admit that it's ranting is enough. Veil your complaints in sarcasm and witty banter and we'll talk.--[[User:Carrion|Carrion]] 18:55, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:::The fact that you trailed on is a testament to how boring you are, kid. Brevity is the soul of wit. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 18:51, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

::Well, I for one would like to see this page actually turned into something ''useful''. It could have information on the fandom references in Beast Wars, the fan artists and writers who have gone on to do official work, things like that. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 18:40, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

As absolutely ''fucking hilarious'' as the page just became, I agree with the above notions. We either need to delete the whole schebang (frankly, I never found the page to really be necessary at all to begin with) or, as Kil notes, take the route of making it a "hub" page for the big fan-stuff turned "official", with a note about its GENERAL history (starting on USENET, move to messageboards, MUSHes, etc). --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 18:46, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

::: I'd rather we leave it exactly as it is, with both arguments. However, there shouldn't be an artificial argument here. The person with the most convincing argument should be allowed to have it shine if it really is more convincing.

::: And I honestly believe there is just much more "shit" on the fan-haters than the fans themselves. They really are a joke.

::: I don't mean it to be too horribly mean since a lot of my friends do engage in some of the things I list, but considering what I was responding to, and the level of bullying in the community, I really did feel a no-holds barred rebuttal was necessary. There is already enough of this rubbish within the fandom itself, if this place is so seperate it should know better. The most ridiculous thing about the fandom is without about those within it who are bitter, horrid and vicious in their criticism of their fellow fans. No amount of complaining about Michael Bay or Bumblebee not being a VW can ever compete with that, and it's about time the fandom started realising it.

::: I genuinely feel that some people have gone much too far, and don't realise or don't care about the damage they're doing on the community. Boards like TFW2005 and Allspark are far too strict for there ever to be any kind of "Uprising". If there is to be any kind of opposition, or at least equal footing with these people, it needs to be here, where it's lax. I do have little reason to respect people like Walky as long as they continue to mock and spread bile about me and people who share my views directly and indirectly through their "humour" or message board posts.

::: I will consider removing some of the harsher ones, like the one about people liking the movie. I actually quite liked the movie but I was bothered by the scrap-heap designs and poor script and humour. It just really bothers me that something that's objectively not the greatest thing ever is pushed on people in the manner that it is throughout the fandom. I remain adamant that a lot of the support of the movie within the fanbase is down to hype and peer pressure.
*You're a very angry man who doesn't seem to realize that the article was intended to be one giant ''joke'' where we mock our own fanboyishness (word?). Seek help. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 18:47, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
*I love the assumption that people who pour their time and energy into the wiki aren't fans, but people whose only interest is to scream and whine until they get banned from the big message boards (and I don't know who this guy is, but COME ON) are the real fans. And it's all everyone else's fault but his. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 18:54, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

: Hold on, why is the other "joke" acceptable and not mine? Mine is much more "Jokey" in tone. You mean "seek help" because I fail to conform to your side of the supposed "humour". I've found in my experience on sites like ED that these kind of articles are often a lot more genuine than they seem, with some light tone tacked on so they can get away with it on the grounds of parody. You're not mocking yourselves - people like Walky, Sipher, while sometimes mocking themselves in different ways, set themselves out from the people they mock or "correct". There is a split between between "Fanboy" and "Anti-fan" which is very similiar to the supporters and detractors of the movie. This article is a result of that split - it's not fans making fun of themselves, it's fans making fun of other fans.
*That fact that you said a guy who wrote this was writting Child Pornoprophy set off a few alarms. Then there's is that fact that it came of vitriolic and with more swearing that one would expect from a series aimed toward kids. That's where you may need to seek help. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 18:53, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

* The Child Pornography thing was a joke, since "Shortpacked" sounds like a euphanism(fudge packing, children are short, whatever). It was just something I dropped in to show that what I'd written was somewhat tounge in cheek, and also to dislodge the idea that Shortpacked itself should be taken as the accurate, witty observational humour some people make it out to be.. I can always change that, but I doubt enough children use this Wiki to notice. Not that you care - your recent actions prove you're biased as hell with no respect for decent argument or opposition.

Okay, seriously, Walky, stop it. It isn't funny anymore to pretend to be a complete idiot who compares your comic to child porn.

Okay, maybe its a little funny, but its irritating that it needs clean up so often.

: Walky would never post something like this since it contains near-irrefutable points against some of his arguments. Not to mention you're using his tactics trying to discredit someone by calling them an "idiot" instead of proving their argument wrong.<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

User talk:159.134.163.42

2007-08-03T19:00:38Z

159.134.163.42:

User talk:159.134.163.42

2007-08-03T19:00:23Z

159.134.163.42:

User talk:159.134.163.42

2007-08-03T18:59:06Z

159.134.163.42:

Talk:Fandom

2007-08-03T18:57:59Z

159.134.163.42:

That IP address was me. I figured since you have this entry just ''dripping'' with snark including "Bayformers", it should include the inexplicable fan belief that early G1 had more realistic representations of extraterrestrial robots, even though the toy engineers made them to look like the human-built piloted mecha they were in their original toy lines. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 18:30, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:Oooh. Your edit didn't say anything about extraterrestrials, so, I totally didn't know where you were going. I personally prefer the line more brief, without bringing that part in, but, I don't feel real strongly about it. If you put it back in I might edit the phrasing to make it more to my liking, though. :) --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 19:07, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I ''know'' that someone from Hasbro (Whatshername, the exec who used to work for Power Rangers?) mentioned at some point that they estimate that X% of Transformers toys are bought by adult collectors- and I ''think'' it was 20. That should probably be in here.

I admit, I find the tone of this article unnecessarily harsh. I'd like to see it either moderated, or to have [[Fans]] and [[Fandom]] made two separate articles, with most of the negative aspects assigned to fandom. (Which I think is a fair division of blame- you still hear stories of hardcore transfans who run into the occasional hardcore solo-fan who has no clue about the 'net, conventions etc. The ''really'' nasty negative aspects of fans are almost all ''group behaviors'' that feed on themselves and doesn't exist in individuals if a fan is removed from fandom.)

...oh my god, I just articulated a [[Wikipedia:Romanticism|romantacist]] belief in the fundamental goodness of humanity and the corrupting influence of society on individuals. '''KILL ME NOW! DO IT BEFORE I SPREAD PEACE AND LOVE ALL OVER THE WIKI!''' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:54, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

::::Was that Michelle Fields? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:44, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

::I also greatly dislike the tone of this article. It gives the impression that we here at this Wiki somehow stand separate and apart from the "fandom" which it sarcastically ridicules. Were it up to me, everything on this page but the short History section would be removed. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 02:46, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

:I find this article totally hilarious and that it contains quite a lot of truths. {{unsigned|210.49.121.202}}

I'm okay with the link. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 03:36, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I admit to being a little surprised at the negative reactions, as this is all stuff that's already written in various places on this wiki. Still, I recognize that if my only supporter is an anonymous string of numbers, I apparently just have a weird opinion on it. I just talked to Walky about it and he said the sarcastic "accomplishments"list could maybe be preserved if it were just a small part of a large, otherwise focusing-on-the-positive article. That sounds okay to me... I'd kind of like to keep at least ''some'' of the list in there, but, again, I seemingly have no perception of how vicious what I wrote is, so maybe it should be totally scrapped. For now I'll call shenanigans on myself while we decide what to do. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 03:54, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
:Keep it. I read some seriously ridiculous crap in the past week that makes this page DESERVE existence. Oh yeah, and it needs a mention of terrible fanfiction in there, since nothing is free from terrible fanfiction.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 05:35, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
:: This article is just full of win. Reading it totally made my day. I say keep it. [[User:Detour|Detour]] 06:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

:I don't have a problem witht he negativity of the article per-se... it just seems kinda ''down'' on fans unless there's some contrasting material to balance it out. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:51, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

::Pretty much all of the snark and negativity on display in the current version is depressingly close to the truth, but I for one would certainly like to see it balanced out with stuff about the more positive aspects of TF fandom. --[[User:TVsGrady|TVsGrady]] 00:17, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

::It currently bears an uncanny resemblence to Encyclopedia Dramatica. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 08:02, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

It has been my observation that other fandoms, particularly the GI Joe fandom (probably owing to TF's close relationship with Joe), think TF fans are absolutely fucking insane. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:48, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
:The Sonic The Hedgehog fandom makes Transformers, G. I. Joe or basically anyone else look like rank amateurs in the insanity department. I am dead serious as hilarious as it might sound. Death threats and talk of character rape is how you say "hello" over there.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 04:52, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I am in favor of the article staying in its present state, as a reminder against such foolish behavior. It made my day reading the Fandom section, and under the management's rule that "THE FUNNY STAYS.", it should be here. [[User:Ronimus Prime|Ronimus Prime]] 03:51, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I say keep it. It reminds fans not to take themselves too seriously. In fact, maybe even add a note on the whole "Who is Cyclonus" thing. [[User:67.160.13.149|67.160.13.149]] 22:39, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

This whole page sounds like another one of Walky's idiotic rants against the fandom. Snore. Why don't people make fun of the anti-fans like Walky more often, when the things they say and do are far more ridiculous as they can't be defended by "Well, he's a crazy fan"?

==There==

Now it is fair and balanced.

==What to do with this page?==

As this page has, as was pretty much inevitable, now gotten worse and even MORE ueseless, I would like to re-iterate my previous position that everything other than the brief history section should be removed. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 18:32, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:If we're going to keep the page at all, I think we should keep our new friend's contribution. Don't edit it or clean it up, leave it at his reading level. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 18:36, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
:The page should never have existed anyway, and since there's no justification for removing this anonymous crybaby's sixth-grade ranting about how the smart kids don't like him without removing the part making fun of the shit-for-brains who make up the loudest part of this and every fandom, I agree that it should be minimized or removed. Any sufficiently official and important aspect of fandom (ie BotCon) has its own place on the wiki anyway. -[[User:67.149.204.113|67.149.204.113]] 18:38, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:: The Guys I'm ranting about are the "smart kids"? You're kidding, right? For a start, if they were the smarter ones, their arguments would be the more detailed ones. The fact that mine trailed on is simply down to the fact that I've spent more time on my arguments. How are the people whining about the fans any better? What's wrong with complaining? Why do you have to attach weighted terms in it? And if I'm so dumb, how did I know I'd be able to catch you out like this, as you say, you can't remove mine without removing his?

:::That you admit that it's ranting is enough. Veil your complaints in sarcasm and witty banter and we'll talk.--[[User:Carrion|Carrion]] 18:55, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:::The fact that you trailed on is a testament to how boring you are, kid. Brevity is the soul of wit. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 18:51, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

::Well, I for one would like to see this page actually turned into something ''useful''. It could have information on the fandom references in Beast Wars, the fan artists and writers who have gone on to do official work, things like that. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 18:40, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

As absolutely ''fucking hilarious'' as the page just became, I agree with the above notions. We either need to delete the whole schebang (frankly, I never found the page to really be necessary at all to begin with) or, as Kil notes, take the route of making it a "hub" page for the big fan-stuff turned "official", with a note about its GENERAL history (starting on USENET, move to messageboards, MUSHes, etc). --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 18:46, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

::: I'd rather we leave it exactly as it is, with both arguments. However, there shouldn't be an artificial argument here. The person with the most convincing argument should be allowed to have it shine if it really is more convincing.

::: And I honestly believe there is just much more "shit" on the fan-haters than the fans themselves. They really are a joke.

::: I don't mean it to be too horribly mean since a lot of my friends do engage in some of the things I list, but considering what I was responding to, and the level of bullying in the community, I really did feel a no-holds barred rebuttal was necessary. There is already enough of this rubbish within the fandom itself, if this place is so seperate it should know better. The most ridiculous thing about the fandom is without about those within it who are bitter, horrid and vicious in their criticism of their fellow fans. No amount of complaining about Michael Bay or Bumblebee not being a VW can ever compete with that, and it's about time the fandom started realising it.

::: I genuinely feel that some people have gone much too far, and don't realise or don't care about the damage they're doing on the community. Boards like TFW2005 and Allspark are far too strict for there ever to be any kind of "Uprising". If there is to be any kind of opposition, or at least equal footing with these people, it needs to be here, where it's lax. I do have little reason to respect people like Walky as long as they continue to mock and spread bile about me and people who share my views directly and indirectly through their "humour" or message board posts.

::: I will consider removing some of the harsher ones, like the one about people liking the movie. I actually quite liked the movie but I was bothered by the scrap-heap designs and poor script and humour. It just really bothers me that something that's objectively not the greatest thing ever is pushed on people in the manner that it is throughout the fandom. I remain adamant that a lot of the support of the movie within the fanbase is down to hype and peer pressure.
*You're a very angry man who doesn't seem to realize that the article was intended to be one giant ''joke'' where we mock our own fanboyishness (word?). Seek help. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 18:47, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
*I love the assumption that people who pour their time and energy into the wiki aren't fans, but people whose only interest is to scream and whine until they get banned from the big message boards (and I don't know who this guy is, but COME ON) are the real fans. And it's all everyone else's fault but his. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 18:54, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

: Hold on, why is the other "joke" acceptable and not mine? Mine is much more "Jokey" in tone. You mean "seek help" because I fail to conform to your side of the supposed "humour". I've found in my experience on sites like ED that these kind of articles are often a lot more genuine than they seem, with some light tone tacked on so they can get away with it on the grounds of parody. You're not mocking yourselves - people like Walky, Sipher, while sometimes mocking themselves in different ways, set themselves out from the people they mock or "correct". There is a split between between "Fanboy" and "Anti-fan" which is very similiar to the supporters and detractors of the movie. This article is a result of that split - it's not fans making fun of themselves, it's fans making fun of other fans.
*That fact that you said a guy who wrote this was writting Child Pornoprophy set off a few alarms. Then there's is that fact that it came of vitriolic and with more swearing that one would expect from a series aimed toward kids. That's where you may need to seek help. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 18:53, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

* The Child Pornography thing was a joke, since "Shortpacked" sounds like a euphanism(fudge packing, children are short, whatever). It was just something I dropped in to show that what I'd written was somewhat tounge in cheek, and also to dislodge the idea that Shortpacked itself should be taken as the accurate, witty observational humour some people make it out to be.. I can always change that, but I doubt enough children use this Wiki to notice. Not that you care - your recent actions prove you're biased as hell with no respect for decent argument or opposition.<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Fandom

2007-08-03T18:57:07Z

159.134.163.42:

That IP address was me. I figured since you have this entry just ''dripping'' with snark including "Bayformers", it should include the inexplicable fan belief that early G1 had more realistic representations of extraterrestrial robots, even though the toy engineers made them to look like the human-built piloted mecha they were in their original toy lines. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 18:30, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:Oooh. Your edit didn't say anything about extraterrestrials, so, I totally didn't know where you were going. I personally prefer the line more brief, without bringing that part in, but, I don't feel real strongly about it. If you put it back in I might edit the phrasing to make it more to my liking, though. :) --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 19:07, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I ''know'' that someone from Hasbro (Whatshername, the exec who used to work for Power Rangers?) mentioned at some point that they estimate that X% of Transformers toys are bought by adult collectors- and I ''think'' it was 20. That should probably be in here.

I admit, I find the tone of this article unnecessarily harsh. I'd like to see it either moderated, or to have [[Fans]] and [[Fandom]] made two separate articles, with most of the negative aspects assigned to fandom. (Which I think is a fair division of blame- you still hear stories of hardcore transfans who run into the occasional hardcore solo-fan who has no clue about the 'net, conventions etc. The ''really'' nasty negative aspects of fans are almost all ''group behaviors'' that feed on themselves and doesn't exist in individuals if a fan is removed from fandom.)

...oh my god, I just articulated a [[Wikipedia:Romanticism|romantacist]] belief in the fundamental goodness of humanity and the corrupting influence of society on individuals. '''KILL ME NOW! DO IT BEFORE I SPREAD PEACE AND LOVE ALL OVER THE WIKI!''' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:54, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

::::Was that Michelle Fields? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:44, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

::I also greatly dislike the tone of this article. It gives the impression that we here at this Wiki somehow stand separate and apart from the "fandom" which it sarcastically ridicules. Were it up to me, everything on this page but the short History section would be removed. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 02:46, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

:I find this article totally hilarious and that it contains quite a lot of truths. {{unsigned|210.49.121.202}}

I'm okay with the link. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 03:36, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I admit to being a little surprised at the negative reactions, as this is all stuff that's already written in various places on this wiki. Still, I recognize that if my only supporter is an anonymous string of numbers, I apparently just have a weird opinion on it. I just talked to Walky about it and he said the sarcastic "accomplishments"list could maybe be preserved if it were just a small part of a large, otherwise focusing-on-the-positive article. That sounds okay to me... I'd kind of like to keep at least ''some'' of the list in there, but, again, I seemingly have no perception of how vicious what I wrote is, so maybe it should be totally scrapped. For now I'll call shenanigans on myself while we decide what to do. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 03:54, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
:Keep it. I read some seriously ridiculous crap in the past week that makes this page DESERVE existence. Oh yeah, and it needs a mention of terrible fanfiction in there, since nothing is free from terrible fanfiction.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 05:35, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
:: This article is just full of win. Reading it totally made my day. I say keep it. [[User:Detour|Detour]] 06:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

:I don't have a problem witht he negativity of the article per-se... it just seems kinda ''down'' on fans unless there's some contrasting material to balance it out. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:51, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

::Pretty much all of the snark and negativity on display in the current version is depressingly close to the truth, but I for one would certainly like to see it balanced out with stuff about the more positive aspects of TF fandom. --[[User:TVsGrady|TVsGrady]] 00:17, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

::It currently bears an uncanny resemblence to Encyclopedia Dramatica. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 08:02, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

It has been my observation that other fandoms, particularly the GI Joe fandom (probably owing to TF's close relationship with Joe), think TF fans are absolutely fucking insane. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:48, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
:The Sonic The Hedgehog fandom makes Transformers, G. I. Joe or basically anyone else look like rank amateurs in the insanity department. I am dead serious as hilarious as it might sound. Death threats and talk of character rape is how you say "hello" over there.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 04:52, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I am in favor of the article staying in its present state, as a reminder against such foolish behavior. It made my day reading the Fandom section, and under the management's rule that "THE FUNNY STAYS.", it should be here. [[User:Ronimus Prime|Ronimus Prime]] 03:51, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I say keep it. It reminds fans not to take themselves too seriously. In fact, maybe even add a note on the whole "Who is Cyclonus" thing. [[User:67.160.13.149|67.160.13.149]] 22:39, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

This whole page sounds like another one of Walky's idiotic rants against the fandom. Snore. Why don't people make fun of the anti-fans like Walky more often, when the things they say and do are far more ridiculous as they can't be defended by "Well, he's a crazy fan"?

==There==

Now it is fair and balanced.

==What to do with this page?==

As this page has, as was pretty much inevitable, now gotten worse and even MORE ueseless, I would like to re-iterate my previous position that everything other than the brief history section should be removed. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 18:32, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:If we're going to keep the page at all, I think we should keep our new friend's contribution. Don't edit it or clean it up, leave it at his reading level. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 18:36, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
:The page should never have existed anyway, and since there's no justification for removing this anonymous crybaby's sixth-grade ranting about how the smart kids don't like him without removing the part making fun of the shit-for-brains who make up the loudest part of this and every fandom, I agree that it should be minimized or removed. Any sufficiently official and important aspect of fandom (ie BotCon) has its own place on the wiki anyway. -[[User:67.149.204.113|67.149.204.113]] 18:38, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:: The Guys I'm ranting about are the "smart kids"? You're kidding, right? For a start, if they were the smarter ones, their arguments would be the more detailed ones. The fact that mine trailed on is simply down to the fact that I've spent more time on my arguments. How are the people whining about the fans any better? What's wrong with complaining? Why do you have to attach weighted terms in it? And if I'm so dumb, how did I know I'd be able to catch you out like this, as you say, you can't remove mine without removing his?

:::That you admit that it's ranting is enough. Veil your complaints in sarcasm and witty banter and we'll talk.--[[User:Carrion|Carrion]] 18:55, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:::The fact that you trailed on is a testament to how boring you are, kid. Brevity is the soul of wit. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 18:51, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

::Well, I for one would like to see this page actually turned into something ''useful''. It could have information on the fandom references in Beast Wars, the fan artists and writers who have gone on to do official work, things like that. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 18:40, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

As absolutely ''fucking hilarious'' as the page just became, I agree with the above notions. We either need to delete the whole schebang (frankly, I never found the page to really be necessary at all to begin with) or, as Kil notes, take the route of making it a "hub" page for the big fan-stuff turned "official", with a note about its GENERAL history (starting on USENET, move to messageboards, MUSHes, etc). --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 18:46, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

::: I'd rather we leave it exactly as it is, with both arguments. However, there shouldn't be an artificial argument here. The person with the most convincing argument should be allowed to have it shine if it really is more convincing.

::: And I honestly believe there is just much more "shit" on the fan-haters than the fans themselves. They really are a joke.

::: I don't mean it to be too horribly mean since a lot of my friends do engage in some of the things I list, but considering what I was responding to, and the level of bullying in the community, I really did feel a no-holds barred rebuttal was necessary. There is already enough of this rubbish within the fandom itself, if this place is so seperate it should know better. The most ridiculous thing about the fandom is without about those within it who are bitter, horrid and vicious in their criticism of their fellow fans. No amount of complaining about Michael Bay or Bumblebee not being a VW can ever compete with that, and it's about time the fandom started realising it.

::: I genuinely feel that some people have gone much too far, and don't realise or don't care about the damage they're doing on the community. Boards like TFW2005 and Allspark are far too strict for there ever to be any kind of "Uprising". If there is to be any kind of opposition, or at least equal footing with these people, it needs to be here, where it's lax. I do have little reason to respect people like Walky as long as they continue to mock and spread bile about me and people who share my views directly and indirectly through their "humour" or message board posts.

::: I will consider removing some of the harsher ones, like the one about people liking the movie. I actually quite liked the movie but I was bothered by the scrap-heap designs and poor script and humour. It just really bothers me that something that's objectively not the greatest thing ever is pushed on people in the manner that it is throughout the fandom. I remain adamant that a lot of the support of the movie within the fanbase is down to hype and peer pressure.
*You're a very angry man who doesn't seem to realize that the article was intended to be one giant ''joke'' where we mock our own fanboyishness (word?). Seek help. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 18:47, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
*I love the assumption that people who pour their time and energy into the wiki aren't fans, but people whose only interest is to scream and whine until they get banned from the big message boards (and I don't know who this guy is, but COME ON) are the real fans. And it's all everyone else's fault but his. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 18:54, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

: Hold on, why is the other "joke" acceptable and not mine? Mine is much more "Jokey" in tone. You mean "seek help" because I fail to conform to your side of the supposed "humour". I've found in my experience on sites like ED that these kind of articles are often a lot more genuine than they seem, with some light tone tacked on so they can get away with it on the grounds of parody. You're not mocking yourselves - people like Walky, Sipher, while sometimes mocking themselves in different ways, set themselves out from the people they mock or "correct". There is a split between between "Fanboy" and "Anti-fan" which is very similiar to the supporters and detractors of the movie. This article is a result of that split - it's not fans making fun of themselves, it's fans making fun of other fans.
*That fact that you said a guy who wrote this was writting Child Pornoprophy set off a few alarms. Then there's is that fact that it came of vitriolic and with more swearing that one would expect from a series aimed toward kids. That's where you may need to seek help. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 18:53, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

* The Child Pornography thing was a joke, since "Shortpacked" sounds like a euphanism(fudge packing, children are short, whatever). It was just something I dropped in to show that what I'd written was somewhat tounge in cheek. I can always change that, but I doubt enough children use this Wiki to notice. Not that you care - your recent actions prove you're biased as hell with no respect for decent argument or opposition.<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Fandom

2007-08-03T18:56:15Z

159.134.163.42:

That IP address was me. I figured since you have this entry just ''dripping'' with snark including "Bayformers", it should include the inexplicable fan belief that early G1 had more realistic representations of extraterrestrial robots, even though the toy engineers made them to look like the human-built piloted mecha they were in their original toy lines. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 18:30, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:Oooh. Your edit didn't say anything about extraterrestrials, so, I totally didn't know where you were going. I personally prefer the line more brief, without bringing that part in, but, I don't feel real strongly about it. If you put it back in I might edit the phrasing to make it more to my liking, though. :) --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 19:07, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I ''know'' that someone from Hasbro (Whatshername, the exec who used to work for Power Rangers?) mentioned at some point that they estimate that X% of Transformers toys are bought by adult collectors- and I ''think'' it was 20. That should probably be in here.

I admit, I find the tone of this article unnecessarily harsh. I'd like to see it either moderated, or to have [[Fans]] and [[Fandom]] made two separate articles, with most of the negative aspects assigned to fandom. (Which I think is a fair division of blame- you still hear stories of hardcore transfans who run into the occasional hardcore solo-fan who has no clue about the 'net, conventions etc. The ''really'' nasty negative aspects of fans are almost all ''group behaviors'' that feed on themselves and doesn't exist in individuals if a fan is removed from fandom.)

...oh my god, I just articulated a [[Wikipedia:Romanticism|romantacist]] belief in the fundamental goodness of humanity and the corrupting influence of society on individuals. '''KILL ME NOW! DO IT BEFORE I SPREAD PEACE AND LOVE ALL OVER THE WIKI!''' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:54, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

::::Was that Michelle Fields? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:44, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

::I also greatly dislike the tone of this article. It gives the impression that we here at this Wiki somehow stand separate and apart from the "fandom" which it sarcastically ridicules. Were it up to me, everything on this page but the short History section would be removed. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 02:46, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

:I find this article totally hilarious and that it contains quite a lot of truths. {{unsigned|210.49.121.202}}

I'm okay with the link. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 03:36, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I admit to being a little surprised at the negative reactions, as this is all stuff that's already written in various places on this wiki. Still, I recognize that if my only supporter is an anonymous string of numbers, I apparently just have a weird opinion on it. I just talked to Walky about it and he said the sarcastic "accomplishments"list could maybe be preserved if it were just a small part of a large, otherwise focusing-on-the-positive article. That sounds okay to me... I'd kind of like to keep at least ''some'' of the list in there, but, again, I seemingly have no perception of how vicious what I wrote is, so maybe it should be totally scrapped. For now I'll call shenanigans on myself while we decide what to do. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 03:54, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
:Keep it. I read some seriously ridiculous crap in the past week that makes this page DESERVE existence. Oh yeah, and it needs a mention of terrible fanfiction in there, since nothing is free from terrible fanfiction.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 05:35, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
:: This article is just full of win. Reading it totally made my day. I say keep it. [[User:Detour|Detour]] 06:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

:I don't have a problem witht he negativity of the article per-se... it just seems kinda ''down'' on fans unless there's some contrasting material to balance it out. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:51, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

::Pretty much all of the snark and negativity on display in the current version is depressingly close to the truth, but I for one would certainly like to see it balanced out with stuff about the more positive aspects of TF fandom. --[[User:TVsGrady|TVsGrady]] 00:17, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

::It currently bears an uncanny resemblence to Encyclopedia Dramatica. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 08:02, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

It has been my observation that other fandoms, particularly the GI Joe fandom (probably owing to TF's close relationship with Joe), think TF fans are absolutely fucking insane. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:48, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
:The Sonic The Hedgehog fandom makes Transformers, G. I. Joe or basically anyone else look like rank amateurs in the insanity department. I am dead serious as hilarious as it might sound. Death threats and talk of character rape is how you say "hello" over there.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 04:52, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I am in favor of the article staying in its present state, as a reminder against such foolish behavior. It made my day reading the Fandom section, and under the management's rule that "THE FUNNY STAYS.", it should be here. [[User:Ronimus Prime|Ronimus Prime]] 03:51, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I say keep it. It reminds fans not to take themselves too seriously. In fact, maybe even add a note on the whole "Who is Cyclonus" thing. [[User:67.160.13.149|67.160.13.149]] 22:39, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

This whole page sounds like another one of Walky's idiotic rants against the fandom. Snore. Why don't people make fun of the anti-fans like Walky more often, when the things they say and do are far more ridiculous as they can't be defended by "Well, he's a crazy fan"?

==There==

Now it is fair and balanced.

==What to do with this page?==

As this page has, as was pretty much inevitable, now gotten worse and even MORE ueseless, I would like to re-iterate my previous position that everything other than the brief history section should be removed. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 18:32, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:If we're going to keep the page at all, I think we should keep our new friend's contribution. Don't edit it or clean it up, leave it at his reading level. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 18:36, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
:The page should never have existed anyway, and since there's no justification for removing this anonymous crybaby's sixth-grade ranting about how the smart kids don't like him without removing the part making fun of the shit-for-brains who make up the loudest part of this and every fandom, I agree that it should be minimized or removed. Any sufficiently official and important aspect of fandom (ie BotCon) has its own place on the wiki anyway. -[[User:67.149.204.113|67.149.204.113]] 18:38, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:: The Guys I'm ranting about are the "smart kids"? You're kidding, right? For a start, if they were the smarter ones, their arguments would be the more detailed ones. The fact that mine trailed on is simply down to the fact that I've spent more time on my arguments. How are the people whining about the fans any better? What's wrong with complaining? Why do you have to attach weighted terms in it? And if I'm so dumb, how did I know I'd be able to catch you out like this, as you say, you can't remove mine without removing his?

:::That you admit that it's ranting is enough. Veil your complaints in sarcasm and witty banter and we'll talk.--[[User:Carrion|Carrion]] 18:55, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:::The fact that you trailed on is a testament to how boring you are, kid. Brevity is the soul of wit. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 18:51, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

::Well, I for one would like to see this page actually turned into something ''useful''. It could have information on the fandom references in Beast Wars, the fan artists and writers who have gone on to do official work, things like that. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 18:40, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

As absolutely ''fucking hilarious'' as the page just became, I agree with the above notions. We either need to delete the whole schebang (frankly, I never found the page to really be necessary at all to begin with) or, as Kil notes, take the route of making it a "hub" page for the big fan-stuff turned "official", with a note about its GENERAL history (starting on USENET, move to messageboards, MUSHes, etc). --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 18:46, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

::: I'd rather we leave it exactly as it is, with both arguments. However, there shouldn't be an artificial argument here. The person with the most convincing argument should be allowed to have it shine if it really is more convincing.

::: And I honestly believe there is just much more "shit" on the fan-haters than the fans themselves. They really are a joke.

::: I don't mean it to be too horribly mean since a lot of my friends do engage in some of the things I list, but considering what I was responding to, and the level of bullying in the community, I really did feel a no-holds barred rebuttal was necessary. There is already enough of this rubbish within the fandom itself, if this place is so seperate it should know better. The most ridiculous thing about the fandom is without about those within it who are bitter, horrid and vicious in their criticism of their fellow fans. No amount of complaining about Michael Bay or Bumblebee not being a VW can ever compete with that, and it's about time the fandom started realising it.

::: I genuinely feel that some people have gone much too far, and don't realise or don't care about the damage they're doing on the community. Boards like TFW2005 and Allspark are far too strict for there ever to be any kind of "Uprising". If there is to be any kind of opposition, or at least equal footing with these people, it needs to be here, where it's lax. I do have little reason to respect people like Walky as long as they continue to mock and spread bile about me and people who share my views directly and indirectly through their "humour" or message board posts.

::: I will consider removing some of the harsher ones, like the one about people liking the movie. I actually quite liked the movie but I was bothered by the scrap-heap designs and poor script and humour. It just really bothers me that something that's objectively not the greatest thing ever is pushed on people in the manner that it is throughout the fandom. I remain adamant that a lot of the support of the movie within the fanbase is down to hype and peer pressure.
*You're a very angry man who doesn't seem to realize that the article was intended to be one giant ''joke'' where we mock our own fanboyishness (word?). Seek help. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 18:47, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
*I love the assumption that people who pour their time and energy into the wiki aren't fans, but people whose only interest is to scream and whine until they get banned from the big message boards (and I don't know who this guy is, but COME ON) are the real fans. And it's all everyone else's fault but his. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 18:54, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

: Hold on, why is the other "joke" acceptable and not mine? Mine is much more "Jokey" in tone. You mean "seek help" because I fail to conform to your side of the supposed "humour". I've found in my experience on sites like ED that these kind of articles are often a lot more genuine than they seem, with some light tone tacked on so they can get away with it on the grounds of parody. You're not mocking yourselves - people like Walky, Sipher, while sometimes mocking themselves in different ways, set themselves out from the people they mock or "correct". There is a split between between "Fanboy" and "Anti-fan" which is very similiar to the supporters and detractors of the movie. This article is a result of that split - it's not fans making fun of themselves, it's fans making fun of other fans.
*That fact that you said a guy who wrote this was writting Child Pornoprophy set off a few alarms. Then there's is that fact that it came of vitriolic and with more swearing that one would expect from a series aimed toward kids. That's where you may need to seek help. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 18:53, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

* The Child Pornography thing was a joke, since "Shortpacked" sounds like a euphanism(fudge packing, children are short, whatever). It was just something I dropped in to show that what I'd written was somewhat tounge in cheek. I can always change that, but I doubt many children use this Wiki.<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Fandom

2007-08-03T18:55:45Z

159.134.163.42:

That IP address was me. I figured since you have this entry just ''dripping'' with snark including "Bayformers", it should include the inexplicable fan belief that early G1 had more realistic representations of extraterrestrial robots, even though the toy engineers made them to look like the human-built piloted mecha they were in their original toy lines. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 18:30, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:Oooh. Your edit didn't say anything about extraterrestrials, so, I totally didn't know where you were going. I personally prefer the line more brief, without bringing that part in, but, I don't feel real strongly about it. If you put it back in I might edit the phrasing to make it more to my liking, though. :) --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 19:07, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I ''know'' that someone from Hasbro (Whatshername, the exec who used to work for Power Rangers?) mentioned at some point that they estimate that X% of Transformers toys are bought by adult collectors- and I ''think'' it was 20. That should probably be in here.

I admit, I find the tone of this article unnecessarily harsh. I'd like to see it either moderated, or to have [[Fans]] and [[Fandom]] made two separate articles, with most of the negative aspects assigned to fandom. (Which I think is a fair division of blame- you still hear stories of hardcore transfans who run into the occasional hardcore solo-fan who has no clue about the 'net, conventions etc. The ''really'' nasty negative aspects of fans are almost all ''group behaviors'' that feed on themselves and doesn't exist in individuals if a fan is removed from fandom.)

...oh my god, I just articulated a [[Wikipedia:Romanticism|romantacist]] belief in the fundamental goodness of humanity and the corrupting influence of society on individuals. '''KILL ME NOW! DO IT BEFORE I SPREAD PEACE AND LOVE ALL OVER THE WIKI!''' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:54, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

::::Was that Michelle Fields? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:44, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

::I also greatly dislike the tone of this article. It gives the impression that we here at this Wiki somehow stand separate and apart from the "fandom" which it sarcastically ridicules. Were it up to me, everything on this page but the short History section would be removed. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 02:46, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

:I find this article totally hilarious and that it contains quite a lot of truths. {{unsigned|210.49.121.202}}

I'm okay with the link. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 03:36, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I admit to being a little surprised at the negative reactions, as this is all stuff that's already written in various places on this wiki. Still, I recognize that if my only supporter is an anonymous string of numbers, I apparently just have a weird opinion on it. I just talked to Walky about it and he said the sarcastic "accomplishments"list could maybe be preserved if it were just a small part of a large, otherwise focusing-on-the-positive article. That sounds okay to me... I'd kind of like to keep at least ''some'' of the list in there, but, again, I seemingly have no perception of how vicious what I wrote is, so maybe it should be totally scrapped. For now I'll call shenanigans on myself while we decide what to do. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 03:54, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
:Keep it. I read some seriously ridiculous crap in the past week that makes this page DESERVE existence. Oh yeah, and it needs a mention of terrible fanfiction in there, since nothing is free from terrible fanfiction.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 05:35, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
:: This article is just full of win. Reading it totally made my day. I say keep it. [[User:Detour|Detour]] 06:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

:I don't have a problem witht he negativity of the article per-se... it just seems kinda ''down'' on fans unless there's some contrasting material to balance it out. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:51, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

::Pretty much all of the snark and negativity on display in the current version is depressingly close to the truth, but I for one would certainly like to see it balanced out with stuff about the more positive aspects of TF fandom. --[[User:TVsGrady|TVsGrady]] 00:17, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

::It currently bears an uncanny resemblence to Encyclopedia Dramatica. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 08:02, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

It has been my observation that other fandoms, particularly the GI Joe fandom (probably owing to TF's close relationship with Joe), think TF fans are absolutely fucking insane. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:48, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
:The Sonic The Hedgehog fandom makes Transformers, G. I. Joe or basically anyone else look like rank amateurs in the insanity department. I am dead serious as hilarious as it might sound. Death threats and talk of character rape is how you say "hello" over there.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 04:52, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I am in favor of the article staying in its present state, as a reminder against such foolish behavior. It made my day reading the Fandom section, and under the management's rule that "THE FUNNY STAYS.", it should be here. [[User:Ronimus Prime|Ronimus Prime]] 03:51, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I say keep it. It reminds fans not to take themselves too seriously. In fact, maybe even add a note on the whole "Who is Cyclonus" thing. [[User:67.160.13.149|67.160.13.149]] 22:39, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

This whole page sounds like another one of Walky's idiotic rants against the fandom. Snore. Why don't people make fun of the anti-fans like Walky more often, when the things they say and do are far more ridiculous as they can't be defended by "Well, he's a crazy fan"?

==There==

Now it is fair and balanced.

==What to do with this page?==

As this page has, as was pretty much inevitable, now gotten worse and even MORE ueseless, I would like to re-iterate my previous position that everything other than the brief history section should be removed. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 18:32, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:If we're going to keep the page at all, I think we should keep our new friend's contribution. Don't edit it or clean it up, leave it at his reading level. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 18:36, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
:The page should never have existed anyway, and since there's no justification for removing this anonymous crybaby's sixth-grade ranting about how the smart kids don't like him without removing the part making fun of the shit-for-brains who make up the loudest part of this and every fandom, I agree that it should be minimized or removed. Any sufficiently official and important aspect of fandom (ie BotCon) has its own place on the wiki anyway. -[[User:67.149.204.113|67.149.204.113]] 18:38, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:: The Guys I'm ranting about are the "smart kids"? You're kidding, right? For a start, if they were the smarter ones, their arguments would be the more detailed ones. The fact that mine trailed on is simply down to the fact that I've spent more time on my arguments. How are the people whining about the fans any better? What's wrong with complaining? Why do you have to attach weighted terms in it? And if I'm so dumb, how did I know I'd be able to catch you out like this, as you say, you can't remove mine without removing his?

:::That you admit that it's ranting is enough. Veil your complaints in sarcasm and witty banter and we'll talk.--[[User:Carrion|Carrion]] 18:55, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

:::The fact that you trailed on is a testament to how boring you are, kid. Brevity is the soul of wit. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 18:51, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

::Well, I for one would like to see this page actually turned into something ''useful''. It could have information on the fandom references in Beast Wars, the fan artists and writers who have gone on to do official work, things like that. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 18:40, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

As absolutely ''fucking hilarious'' as the page just became, I agree with the above notions. We either need to delete the whole schebang (frankly, I never found the page to really be necessary at all to begin with) or, as Kil notes, take the route of making it a "hub" page for the big fan-stuff turned "official", with a note about its GENERAL history (starting on USENET, move to messageboards, MUSHes, etc). --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 18:46, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

::: I'd rather we leave it exactly as it is, with both arguments. However, there shouldn't be an artificial argument here. The person with the most convincing argument should be allowed to have it shine if it really is more convincing.

::: And I honestly believe there is just much more "shit" on the fan-haters than the fans themselves. They really are a joke.

::: I don't mean it to be too horribly mean since a lot of my friends do engage in some of the things I list, but considering what I was responding to, and the level of bullying in the community, I really did feel a no-holds barred rebuttal was necessary. There is already enough of this rubbish within the fandom itself, if this place is so seperate it should know better. The most ridiculous thing about the fandom is without about those within it who are bitter, horrid and vicious in their criticism of their fellow fans. No amount of complaining about Michael Bay or Bumblebee not being a VW can ever compete with that, and it's about time the fandom started realising it.

::: I genuinely feel that some people have gone much too far, and don't realise or don't care about the damage they're doing on the community. Boards like TFW2005 and Allspark are far too strict for there ever to be any kind of "Uprising". If there is to be any kind of opposition, or at least equal footing with these people, it needs to be here, where it's lax. I do have little reason to respect people like Walky as long as they continue to mock and spread bile about me and people who share my views directly and indirectly through their "humour" or message board posts.

::: I will consider removing some of the harsher ones, like the one about people liking the movie. I actually quite liked the movie but I was bothered by the scrap-heap designs and poor script and humour. It just really bothers me that something that's objectively not the greatest thing ever is pushed on people in the manner that it is throughout the fandom. I remain adamant that a lot of the support of the movie within the fanbase is down to hype and peer pressure.
*You're a very angry man who doesn't seem to realize that the article was intended to be one giant ''joke'' where we mock our own fanboyishness (word?). Seek help. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 18:47, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
*I love the assumption that people who pour their time and energy into the wiki aren't fans, but people whose only interest is to scream and whine until they get banned from the big message boards (and I don't know who this guy is, but COME ON) are the real fans. And it's all everyone else's fault but his. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 18:54, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

: Hold on, why is the other "joke" acceptable and not mine? Mine is much more "Jokey" in tone. You mean "seek help" because I fail to conform to your side of the supposed "humour". I've found in my experience on sites like ED that these kind of articles are often a lot more genuine than they seem, with some light tone tacked on so they can get away with it on the grounds of parody. You're not mocking yourselves - people like Walky, Sipher, while sometimes mocking themselves in different ways, set themselves out from the people they mock or "correct". There is a split between between "Fanboy" and "Anti-fan" which is very similiar to the supporters and detractors of the movie. This article is a result of that split - it's not fans making fun of themselves, it's fans making fun of other fans.
*That fact that you said a guy who wrote this was writting Child Pornoprophy set off a few alarms. Then there's is that fact that it came of vitriolic and with more swearing that one would expect from a series aimed toward kids. That's where you may need to seek help. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 18:53, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

* The Child Pornography thing was a joke, since "Shortpacked" sounds like a euphanism. It was just something I dropped in to show that what I'd written was somewhat tounge in cheek. I can always change that, but I doubt many children use this Wiki.<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Fandom

2007-08-03T18:53:54Z

159.134.163.42: So were the comments I was responding to. Both were equally mocking in tone, equally serious in tone. You're Biased. I would not remove the anti-fan nonsense, merely counter it.

{{shenanigans|It's apparently really mean?}}

The '''Transformers fandom''' is the most intelligent, discerning, sophisticated and important group of people in the world today. Without their charitable support, [[Hasbro]] would be forced to mothball the ''Transformers'' brand and would probably enter bankruptcy, taking the entire world economy with it.

==Accomplishments==

Among the amazing discoveries and conclusions of the fandom are the following:

*The ''Transformers'' brand is hanging onto life by the most fragile of threads, and any attempt to do something new will [[Ruined FOREVER|ruin ''Transformers'' forever]].
*Liking things is stupid. If you had half a brain you would realize how terrible everything is and complain about it endlessly. Further, this is rational and constructive behavior. Hasblo will never learn and get things right if we don't save them by telling them how stupid they are.
*Literally everybody hates [[Playskool]]ish [[neon]] colors, therefore toys will sell better if they are [[black repaint|entirely black]].
*Any feature included or removed [[for safety reasons]] is a slap in the face to [[true fan]]s.
*Children are not an important segment of the ''Transformers'' market.
*[[Prototype]]s and test shots that are clearly stamped with the words "not for sale" are actually totally fine to buy over eBay from people in China. There is nothing remotely shady about this.
*It is possible to determine with complete certainty that a product/franchise/work of art will suck as much as eight months before said entity is completed, much less shown to the public or actually released.
*The most important thing for the brand to do is release homages of ''[[Generation 1]]'' characters over and over and over and over and over.
*Any homage of a ''Generation 1'' character which is not given the [[Trademark|name]] of the original character is a direct insult to all fans.
*Any character which is given the name of a ''Generation 1'' character which is not an homage to the original character is a direct insult to all fans.
*Any character which is given the name of a ''Generation 1'' character and is also an homage of the same character but who doesn't behave exactly like the ''Generation 1'' character is a direct insult to all fans.
*Because all fans have an inalienable right to own every toy, toys which would never be released under normal circumstances should never be given a chance at release through [[exclusive]] channels. It would be better for the toy to never be released at all than for some people to get to enjoy it.
*Optimus is a [[trukk not munky|truck, not a monkey]].
*[[Armada (cartoon)|''Armada'']]? I think you mean ''Pokéformers''.
*[[Movie (franchise)|Bayformers]] are much less realistic than ''Generation 1'' Transformers.
* [[Dreamwave]]'s artwork was AWESOME as long as sales were high. Once the company started going downhill, everyone had suddenly always been fully aware how AWFUL [[Pat Lee|Superstar Funana]]'s art was right from the start.
*Japan is much more important and profitable market than North America. Nobody likes Europe, not even Hasbro.
*[[Takara]] products are always superior.
*Hasbro ruins everything Takara does.

==The Anti-Fans==

They obviously wrote the above "Parody", so let's see if they can take the heat.

The Anti-Fans are a group of insecure 20-30 something year olds who believe taking a more pessimistic, corporate worshipining position somehow makes you more mature. They operate on the larger boards, especially TFW2005 and Allspark which have very strict moderation; so they can get away with being very annoying without anyone attacking them or pointing out they're full of rubbish. They seem to make a living off mocking gripes of the fandom, because like, come on, what's more immature than collecting children's toys and complaining about them? Probably complainining incessantly about fans. But that's not the point!

The most famous Anti-Fans include It'sWalky, author of the Child Pornography comic strip [i]Shortpacked[/i], Khan, and Ben Stiller.

==Beliefs and Practices:==

* Hasbro are YOUR GODS. They're not 100% perfect, since you have to think they have one or two minor, insignifcant flaws just so you can say "I don't worship Hasbro!" after you just spend 300 words tearing into anyone who points out Classic Starscream's deco looks like shit.

* The movie is to be revered as the best thing that ever happened to the fandom. They were doing us a favour by completely disregarding the original designs and personalities of the some the original characters, hiring one of the most "MTV" directors in Hollywood, giving Optimus Prime lips and out-of-character flames, and only listening to the fanbase on the most blatantly stupid things like removing Arcee(which, apparently, an awful lot of people regret after seeing her design, it was pretty obviously just out of a "Boy's Club, no girls allowed" mentality no matter what "Girl robots are weird, what do you mean robots with noses" argument that comes after).

* Anyone who hates the movie is a "hater", according to Don Murphy, Nelson, and the easily impressionable half of the fanbase that picked up on this bizarre form of viral marketting, and should be boiled alive. Apprently, disliking and liking something are not the flip side of the same coin as we've been led to believe. Oh no. If you hate things, it makes you evil, since it's easier on the peons' brains to think "Hate=Bad" than considering any level of complication.

* Going by this reasoning, the sheer prospect of Mariah Carey releasing a new album would generate enough Evil to raise Stalin, Saddam Hussein and Hitler's moustache from the dead. And turn Simon Cowell into some kind of fire breathing Demigod.

* Generation one was, like, cool in the 80s man, but it's no good now. I mean haven't you see the cartoon!? The like, plot is totally whack. I don't know exactly where but this guy told me and I think I kind of remember something about the Constructicons not being explained. The several hundred issue Marvel comic alternately does not exist, or is shit(without any explanation as to why, of course). This is why there are still constant slews of toys, comics, wallclocks and lampshades based on G1, yet comparitvely nothing on the much less well recieved Armada series - just to rub it in our faces how rubbish it is.

* Constant fixation on the TAKARA SUPERIOR thing, failing to realise that most fans consider both Hasbro and Takara equally hokey.

* Outright ignoring the fact that Hasbro fails to release slews of Transformers related product in Europe, and charges 2 to 3 times for it, for no logical reason, which harms sales horribly. Hasbro know what they're doing! I mean how do stay on top if they keep fucking up!? It's not as if they have brands like Transformers, GiJoe, and Marvel Legends that millions of kids and collectors will buy no matter what!

* Collectors do not matter. YOU do not matter. What you want does not matter. It is WRONG to fantasise, or want to be treated fairly for your lifelong support of Hasbro/Takaras product. You are the dirt beneath Aaron Archer's feat. You deserve to be rolled up and smoked by Don Murphy, or spend the rest of your days cleaning Michael Bay's enormous penis.

* Failing to realise that you probably should do what the collectors want, since kids will buy it anyway and feel all grown up buying collectory stuff.

* Instead of forming logical arguments as to why Transformers fans are so ridiculous; just make a shitty comic where a character based on the author gets increasingly angry at a misrepresentation of a particular practice of the fandom. This gains you loyal followers to do your arguing for you, but also makes you look like a bit of twat.

* Believing that the movie was anything more than a badly scripted Popcorn flick that invetibly broke all kinds of records simply due to the fact that it had lots of stuff blowing up in new and exciting ways, or claiming that Transformers could NEVER have been anything more than a rubbishy Popcorn flick, with no reason as to why. Once again, the Marvel comic book does not exist.

* The designs had to be changed to get across the idea that this is a bold, new, grown up Transformers, yet the plot and jokes are just about as immature as you can get.

* The new designs are the only way the Transformers could work in live action. Don't you remember all the complaints about the Ice-skating Transformer and how shit did!? Well we were all thinking it! We have absolutely no evidence to prove it but... it just looks SO cartoony!

* Literally translating "G1 based" to mean taking the cartoon models. rendering them in 3D and sticking them in a movie with some cheap shaders on. I have no idea how ANYONE could be stupid enough to think that's what fans want, especially since half the fun of a movie is to see how they tweak the designs, but what have you.

* Following from the last point, failing to realise the other half of the fun of a movie is to see the characters we've grown to know and love in a movie. As long as it's GIANT ROBOTS THAT FUCKING TRANSFORM, it's Transformers. Not Gobots. Or Roadbots. Or Macross. Or those Gundams that sort of Transform.

* The bizarre notion that people actually think for themselves when being blasted full on with Hollywood hype designed to do exactly the opposite, and that anyone trying to get someone else to re-asses their own opinion is being a total NAZI.

* If it makes a lot of money, it's good and was done by geniuses. Generally, right wing economics are aces. This is probably why Hasbro rip off Sweden on the cost of Transformers, obviously, to prove that socialism could never work.

* Change is good. Any change. For any reason. G1 should be left behind where it is. I mean, it's not as if Spider-man, X-men, Fantastic Four and other similiarly ridiculous comic booky type things have remained in the same universe for decades.

* Whining for any reason is bad. Complaining is bad. Yes, this is the same kind of philosophy upheld by totalitarian governments(or message boards, in this case) to stop people from thinking for themselves. Thank you for noticing.

* The argument that if something changes, the reason for someone being a fan of it may no longer be there, doesn't hold water. They just ignore it and make more comics about TAKARA SUPERIOR.

* PLASTIC. Constantly making fun of anyone who suggests that certain Transformer toys look "playskooly". The reason for this is that many Transformers toys appear "cheap" because of the use of somewhat translucent plastics which swallow details, and often in poor/unsuitable colour choices(some of Classics, a lot of Armada) which only appears to have been recently corrected(since the Animated toys use less detail). Anti-fans never really deal with this properly, going off on some stupid tangent or just making fun of the very assertion that a greedy corporate entity would cheap out on plastic or deco designers. Pointing out that Hasbro's Marvel Legends shows the same symptoms as their Transformers did, and that other lines had much better paint apps for your money, gets them very angry, and to claim incredible knowledge of the toy making procedure, yet never sharing it with any of us, especially the bit of how it's so much different for Hasbro than it is for Toybiz. Eventually, they just call you insane and ignore you, since nobody has to defend their weakly formulated support of sub-par toys to an insane person.
The reason the PLASTIC thing is the one that comes up the most often is that it's the most blatantly obviously true, so it takes a lot more delusional ranting to cover it up than other things.

* They almost always make out the cry for better paint apps to mean "EVERYTHING IN BLACK". Which is kind of funny, because these people also tend to support the movie, which has the motto EVERYTHING IN BLACK OR GREY. Attempting to improve the paint apps on Transformers will have them suddenly turn into Spawn figures, probably due to the evil magics of the GEEWUNNERS.

* This general irritating idea that "Generation 1" was just a phase of Transformers, and not the original, defining series. The fact that it was the only universe that was truly expanded through twice as many cartoons, hundreds of comics, hundreds of toys, and that pierced the mainstream and is still often harkened back to today, doesn't matter in their quest to feel more mature and piss on everyone that's stuck in the 80s. Because our current generation is SO MUCH more exciting. With all the crappy consumerism and cheesy pop music in our current era, it's nothing at all like the 80s with iPods and crappier non-mainstream bands.

* Failure to pay attention that Beast Wars was an entirely different context to G1, so many of the same defenses for it do not apply to the movie/other new cartoons.

* Names mean nothing and can be assigned to any character at any time. For instance, it would have been acceptable to call a short black guy with purple Mascara "Optimus Prime" in the movie, and it wouldn't have ruined Prime's public image, at all.

* Starscream is a rubbish character and the only interesting part of him that he's a traitor. All the millions of fans he has don't count since they're all gays and girls.

==History==

It got its start as an organized entity in the 1980s through the establishment of unofficial fan clubs, most notably [[TransMasters]], but it wasn't until the mid-1990s and the beginning of the Internet boom that fandom (both of Transformers and in general) took off. Starting in [[alt.toys.transformers]] and then expanding into innumerable web-based fora, the once tight-knit fandom is now too large for anyone to really know everyone. But would you really want to?

==External links==
*[http://www.shortpacked.com/ Shortpacked!] - A webcomic which frequently documents the academic findings of various fandoms.

[[Category:Fandom| ]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Fandom

2007-08-03T18:50:52Z

159.134.163.42: /* What to do with this page? */

Talk:Fandom

2007-08-03T18:49:07Z

159.134.163.42: /* What to do with this page? */

Talk:Fandom

2007-08-03T18:47:15Z

159.134.163.42: /* What to do with this page? */

Talk:Fandom

2007-08-03T18:44:43Z

159.134.163.42: /* What to do with this page? */

Talk:Fandom

2007-08-03T18:43:22Z

159.134.163.42: /* There */

Fandom

2007-08-03T18:31:54Z

159.134.163.42: /* Beliefs and Practices: */

{{shenanigans|It's apparently really mean?}}

The '''Transformers fandom''' is the most intelligent, discerning, sophisticated and important group of people in the world today. Without their charitable support, [[Hasbro]] would be forced to mothball the ''Transformers'' brand and would probably enter bankruptcy, taking the entire world economy with it.

==Accomplishments==

Among the amazing discoveries and conclusions of the fandom are the following:

*The ''Transformers'' brand is hanging onto life by the most fragile of threads, and any attempt to do something new will [[Ruined FOREVER|ruin ''Transformers'' forever]].
*Liking things is stupid. If you had half a brain you would realize how terrible everything is and complain about it endlessly. Further, this is rational and constructive behavior. Hasblo will never learn and get things right if we don't save them by telling them how stupid they are.
*Literally everybody hates [[Playskool]]ish [[neon]] colors, therefore toys will sell better if they are [[black repaint|entirely black]].
*Any feature included or removed [[for safety reasons]] is a slap in the face to [[true fan]]s.
*Children are not an important segment of the ''Transformers'' market.
*[[Prototype]]s and test shots that are clearly stamped with the words "not for sale" are actually totally fine to buy over eBay from people in China. There is nothing remotely shady about this.
*It is possible to determine with complete certainty that a product/franchise/work of art will suck as much as eight months before said entity is completed, much less shown to the public or actually released.
*The most important thing for the brand to do is release homages of ''[[Generation 1]]'' characters over and over and over and over and over.
*Any homage of a ''Generation 1'' character which is not given the [[Trademark|name]] of the original character is a direct insult to all fans.
*Any character which is given the name of a ''Generation 1'' character which is not an homage to the original character is a direct insult to all fans.
*Any character which is given the name of a ''Generation 1'' character and is also an homage of the same character but who doesn't behave exactly like the ''Generation 1'' character is a direct insult to all fans.
*Because all fans have an inalienable right to own every toy, toys which would never be released under normal circumstances should never be given a chance at release through [[exclusive]] channels. It would be better for the toy to never be released at all than for some people to get to enjoy it.
*Optimus is a [[trukk not munky|truck, not a monkey]].
*[[Armada (cartoon)|''Armada'']]? I think you mean ''Pokéformers''.
*[[Movie (franchise)|Bayformers]] are much less realistic than ''Generation 1'' Transformers.
* [[Dreamwave]]'s artwork was AWESOME as long as sales were high. Once the company started going downhill, everyone had suddenly always been fully aware how AWFUL [[Pat Lee|Superstar Funana]]'s art was right from the start.
*Japan is much more important and profitable market than North America. Nobody likes Europe, not even Hasbro.
*[[Takara]] products are always superior.
*Hasbro ruins everything Takara does.

==The Anti-Fans==

They obviously wrote the above "Parody", so let's see if they can take the heat.

The Anti-Fans are a group of insecure 20-30 something year olds who believe taking a more pessimistic, corporate worshipining position somehow makes you more mature. They operate on the larger boards, especially TFW2005 and Allspark which have very strict moderation; so they can get away with being very annoying without anyone attacking them or pointing out they're full of rubbish. They seem to make a living off mocking gripes of the fandom, because like, come on, what's more immature than collecting children's toys and complaining about them? Probably complainining incessantly about fans. But that's not the point!

The most famous Anti-Fans include It'sWalky, author of the Child Pornography comic strip [i]Shortpacked[/i], Khan, and Ben Stiller.

==Beliefs and Practices:==

* Hasbro are YOUR GODS. They're not 100% perfect, since you have to think they have one or two minor, insignifcant flaws just so you can say "I don't worship Hasbro!" after you just spend 300 words tearing into anyone who points out Classic Starscream's deco looks like shit.

* The movie is to be revered as the best thing that ever happened to the fandom. They were doing us a favour by completely disregarding the original designs and personalities of the some the original characters, hiring one of the most "MTV" directors in Hollywood, giving Optimus Prime lips and out-of-character flames, and only listening to the fanbase on the most blatantly stupid things like removing Arcee(which, apparently, an awful lot of people regret after seeing her design, it was pretty obviously just out of a "Boy's Club, no girls allowed" mentality no matter what "Girl robots are weird, what do you mean robots with noses" argument that comes after).

* Anyone who hates the movie is a "hater", according to Don Murphy, Nelson, and the easily impressionable half of the fanbase that picked up on this bizarre form of viral marketting, and should be boiled alive. Apprently, disliking and liking something are not the flip side of the same coin as we've been led to believe. Oh no. If you hate things, it makes you evil, since it's easier on the peons' brains to think "Hate=Bad" than considering any level of complication.

* Going by this reasoning, the sheer prospect of Mariah Carey releasing a new album would generate enough Evil to raise Stalin, Saddam Hussein and Hitler's moustache from the dead. And turn Simon Cowell into some kind of fire breathing Demigod.

* Generation one was, like, cool in the 80s man, but it's no good now. I mean haven't you see the cartoon!? The like, plot is totally whack. I don't know exactly where but this guy told me and I think I kind of remember something about the Constructicons not being explained. The several hundred issue Marvel comic alternately does not exist, or is shit(without any explanation as to why, of course). This is why there are still constant slews of toys, comics, wallclocks and lampshades based on G1, yet comparitvely nothing on the much less well recieved Armada series - just to rub it in our faces how rubbish it is.

* Constant fixation on the TAKARA SUPERIOR thing, failing to realise that most fans consider both Hasbro and Takara equally hokey.

* Outright ignoring the fact that Hasbro fails to release slews of Transformers related product in Europe, and charges 2 to 3 times for it, for no logical reason, which harms sales horribly. Hasbro know what they're doing! I mean how do stay on top if they keep fucking up!? It's not as if they have brands like Transformers, GiJoe, and Marvel Legends that millions of kids and collectors will buy no matter what!

* Collectors do not matter. YOU do not matter. What you want does not matter. It is WRONG to fantasise, or want to be treated fairly for your lifelong support of Hasbro/Takaras product. You are the dirt beneath Aaron Archer's feat. You deserve to be rolled up and smoked by Don Murphy, or spend the rest of your days cleaning Michael Bay's enormous penis.

* Failing to realise that you probably should do what the collectors want, since kids will buy it anyway and feel all grown up buying collectory stuff.

* Instead of forming logical arguments as to why Transformers fans are so ridiculous; just make a shitty comic where a character based on the author gets increasingly angry at a misrepresentation of a particular practice of the fandom. This gains you loyal followers to do your arguing for you, but also makes you look like a bit of twat.

* Believing that the movie was anything more than a badly scripted Popcorn flick that invetibly broke all kinds of records simply due to the fact that it had lots of stuff blowing up in new and exciting ways, or claiming that Transformers could NEVER have been anything more than a rubbishy Popcorn flick, with no reason as to why. Once again, the Marvel comic book does not exist.

* The designs had to be changed to get across the idea that this is a bold, new, grown up Transformers, yet the plot and jokes are just about as immature as you can get.

* The new designs are the only way the Transformers could work in live action. Don't you remember all the complaints about the Ice-skating Transformer and how shit did!? Well we were all thinking it! We have absolutely no evidence to prove it but... it just looks SO cartoony!

* Literally translating "G1 based" to mean taking the cartoon models. rendering them in 3D and sticking them in a movie with some cheap shaders on. I have no idea how ANYONE could be stupid enough to think that's what fans want, especially since half the fun of a movie is to see how they tweak the designs, but what have you.

* Following from the last point, failing to realise the other half of the fun of a movie is to see the characters we've grown to know and love in a movie. As long as it's GIANT ROBOTS THAT FUCKING TRANSFORM, it's Transformers. Not Gobots. Or Roadbots. Or Macross. Or those Gundams that sort of Transform.

* The bizarre notion that people actually think for themselves when being blasted full on with Hollywood hype designed to do exactly the opposite, and that anyone trying to get someone else to re-asses their own opinion is being a total NAZI.

* If it makes a lot of money, it's good and was done by geniuses. Generally, right wing economics are aces. This is probably why Hasbro rip off Sweden on the cost of Transformers, obviously, to prove that socialism could never work.

* Change is good. Any change. For any reason. G1 should be left behind where it is. I mean, it's not as if Spider-man, X-men, Fantastic Four and other similiarly ridiculous comic booky type things have remained in the same universe for decades.

* The argument that if something changes, the reason for someone being a fan of it may no longer be there, doesn't hold water. They just ignore it and make more comics about TAKARA SUPERIOR.

* PLASTIC. Constantly making fun of anyone who suggests that certain Transformer toys look "playskooly". The reason for this is that many Transformers toys appear "cheap" because of the use of somewhat translucent plastics which swallow details, and often in poor/unsuitable colour choices(some of Classics, a lot of Armada) which only appears to have been recently corrected(since the Animated toys use less detail). Anti-fans never really deal with this properly, going off on some stupid tangent or just making fun of the very assertion that a greedy corporate entity would cheap out on plastic or deco designers. Pointing out that Hasbro's Marvel Legends shows the same symptoms as their Transformers did, and that other lines had much better paint apps for your money, gets them very angry, and to claim incredible knowledge of the toy making procedure, yet never sharing it with any of us, especially the bit of how it's so much different for Hasbro than it is for Toybiz. Eventually, they just call you insane and ignore you, since nobody has to defend their weakly formulated support of sub-par toys to an insane person.
The reason the PLASTIC thing is the one that comes up the most often is that it's the most blatantly obviously true, so it takes a lot more delusional ranting to cover it up than other things.

* They almost always make out the cry for better paint apps to mean "EVERYTHING IN BLACK". Which is kind of funny, because these people also tend to support the movie, which has the motto EVERYTHING IN BLACK OR GREY. Attempting to improve the paint apps on Transformers will have them suddenly turn into Spawn figures, probably due to the evil magics of the GEEWUNNERS.

* This general irritating idea that "Generation 1" was just a phase of Transformers, and not the original, defining series. The fact that it was the only universe that was truly expanded through twice as many cartoons, hundreds of comics, hundreds of toys, and that pierced the mainstream and is still often harkened back to today, doesn't matter in their quest to feel more mature and piss on everyone that's stuck in the 80s. Because our current generation is SO MUCH more exciting. With all the crappy consumerism and cheesy pop music in our current era, it's nothing at all like the 80s with iPods and crappier non-mainstream bands.

* Failure to pay attention that Beast Wars was an entirely different context to G1, so many of the same defenses for it do not apply to the movie/other new cartoons.

* Names mean nothing and can be assigned to any character at any time. For instance, it would have been acceptable to call a short black guy with purple Mascara "Optimus Prime" in the movie, and it wouldn't have ruined Prime's public image, at all.

* Starscream is a rubbish character and the only interesting part of him that he's a traitor. All the millions of fans he has don't count since they're all gays and girls.

==History==

It got its start as an organized entity in the 1980s through the establishment of unofficial fan clubs, most notably [[TransMasters]], but it wasn't until the mid-1990s and the beginning of the Internet boom that fandom (both of Transformers and in general) took off. Starting in [[alt.toys.transformers]] and then expanding into innumerable web-based fora, the once tight-knit fandom is now too large for anyone to really know everyone. But would you really want to?

==External links==
*[http://www.shortpacked.com/ Shortpacked!] - A webcomic which frequently documents the academic findings of various fandoms.

[[Category:Fandom| ]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Fandom

2007-08-03T18:29:32Z

159.134.163.42: /* Beliefs and Practices: */

{{shenanigans|It's apparently really mean?}}

The '''Transformers fandom''' is the most intelligent, discerning, sophisticated and important group of people in the world today. Without their charitable support, [[Hasbro]] would be forced to mothball the ''Transformers'' brand and would probably enter bankruptcy, taking the entire world economy with it.

==Accomplishments==

Among the amazing discoveries and conclusions of the fandom are the following:

*The ''Transformers'' brand is hanging onto life by the most fragile of threads, and any attempt to do something new will [[Ruined FOREVER|ruin ''Transformers'' forever]].
*Liking things is stupid. If you had half a brain you would realize how terrible everything is and complain about it endlessly. Further, this is rational and constructive behavior. Hasblo will never learn and get things right if we don't save them by telling them how stupid they are.
*Literally everybody hates [[Playskool]]ish [[neon]] colors, therefore toys will sell better if they are [[black repaint|entirely black]].
*Any feature included or removed [[for safety reasons]] is a slap in the face to [[true fan]]s.
*Children are not an important segment of the ''Transformers'' market.
*[[Prototype]]s and test shots that are clearly stamped with the words "not for sale" are actually totally fine to buy over eBay from people in China. There is nothing remotely shady about this.
*It is possible to determine with complete certainty that a product/franchise/work of art will suck as much as eight months before said entity is completed, much less shown to the public or actually released.
*The most important thing for the brand to do is release homages of ''[[Generation 1]]'' characters over and over and over and over and over.
*Any homage of a ''Generation 1'' character which is not given the [[Trademark|name]] of the original character is a direct insult to all fans.
*Any character which is given the name of a ''Generation 1'' character which is not an homage to the original character is a direct insult to all fans.
*Any character which is given the name of a ''Generation 1'' character and is also an homage of the same character but who doesn't behave exactly like the ''Generation 1'' character is a direct insult to all fans.
*Because all fans have an inalienable right to own every toy, toys which would never be released under normal circumstances should never be given a chance at release through [[exclusive]] channels. It would be better for the toy to never be released at all than for some people to get to enjoy it.
*Optimus is a [[trukk not munky|truck, not a monkey]].
*[[Armada (cartoon)|''Armada'']]? I think you mean ''Pokéformers''.
*[[Movie (franchise)|Bayformers]] are much less realistic than ''Generation 1'' Transformers.
* [[Dreamwave]]'s artwork was AWESOME as long as sales were high. Once the company started going downhill, everyone had suddenly always been fully aware how AWFUL [[Pat Lee|Superstar Funana]]'s art was right from the start.
*Japan is much more important and profitable market than North America. Nobody likes Europe, not even Hasbro.
*[[Takara]] products are always superior.
*Hasbro ruins everything Takara does.

==The Anti-Fans==

They obviously wrote the above "Parody", so let's see if they can take the heat.

The Anti-Fans are a group of insecure 20-30 something year olds who believe taking a more pessimistic, corporate worshipining position somehow makes you more mature. They operate on the larger boards, especially TFW2005 and Allspark which have very strict moderation; so they can get away with being very annoying without anyone attacking them or pointing out they're full of rubbish. They seem to make a living off mocking gripes of the fandom, because like, come on, what's more immature than collecting children's toys and complaining about them? Probably complainining incessantly about fans. But that's not the point!

The most famous Anti-Fans include It'sWalky, author of the Child Pornography comic strip [i]Shortpacked[/i], Khan, and Ben Stiller.

==Beliefs and Practices:==

* Hasbro are YOUR GODS. They're not 100% perfect, since you have to think they have one or two minor, insignifcant flaws just so you can say "I don't worship Hasbro!" after you just spend 300 words tearing into anyone who points out Classic Starscream's deco looks like shit.

* The movie is to be revered as the best thing that ever happened to the fandom. They were doing us a favour by completely disregarding the original designs and personalities of the some the original characters, hiring one of the most "MTV" directors in Hollywood. Anyone who hates the movie is a "hater", according to Don Murphy, Nelson, and the easily impressionable half of the fanbase that picked up on this bizarre form of viral marketting, and should be boiled alive. Apprently, disliking and liking something are not the flip side of the same coin as we've been led to believe. Oh no. If you hate things, it makes you evil, since it's easier on the peons' brains to think "Hate=Bad" than considering any level of complication.

* Going by this reasoning, the sheer prospect of Mariah Carey releasing a new album would generate enough Evil to raise Stalin, Saddam Hussein and Hitler's moustache from the dead. And turn Simon Cowell into some kind of fire breathing Demigod.

* Generation one was, like, cool in the 80s man, but it's no good now. I mean haven't you see the cartoon!? The like, plot is totally whack. I don't know exactly where but this guy told me and I think I kind of remember something about the Constructicons not being explained. The several hundred issue Marvel comic alternately does not exist, or is shit(without any explanation as to why, of course). This is why there are still constant slews of toys, comics, wallclocks and lampshades based on G1, yet comparitvely nothing on the much less well recieved Armada series - just to rub it in our faces how rubbish it is.

* Constant fixation on the TAKARA SUPERIOR thing, failing to realise that most fans consider both Hasbro and Takara equally hokey.

* Outright ignoring the fact that Hasbro fails to release slews of Transformers related product in Europe, and charges 2 to 3 times for it, for no logical reason, which harms sales horribly. Hasbro know what they're doing! I mean how do stay on top if they keep fucking up!? It's not as if they have brands like Transformers, GiJoe, and Marvel Legends that millions of kids and collectors will buy no matter what!

* Collectors do not matter. YOU do not matter. What you want does not matter. It is WRONG to fantasise, or want to be treated fairly for your lifelong support of Hasbro/Takaras product. You are the dirt beneath Aaron Archer's feat. You deserve to be rolled up and smoked by Don Murphy, or spend the rest of your days cleaning Michael Bay's enormous penis.

* Failing to realise that you probably should do what the collectors want, since kids will buy it anyway and feel all grown up buying collectory stuff.

* Instead of forming logical arguments as to why Transformers fans are so ridiculous; just make a shitty comic where a character based on the author gets increasingly angry at a misrepresentation of a particular practice of the fandom. This gains you loyal followers to do your arguing for you, but also makes you look like a bit of twat.

* Believing that the movie was anything more than a badly scripted Popcorn flick that invetibly broke all kinds of records simply due to the fact that it had lots of stuff blowing up in new and exciting ways, or claiming that Transformers could NEVER have been anything more than a rubbishy Popcorn flick, with no reason as to why. Once again, the Marvel comic book does not exist.

* The designs had to be changed to get across the idea that this is a bold, new, grown up Transformers, yet the plot and jokes are just about as immature as you can get.

* The new designs are the only way the Transformers could work in live action. Don't you remember all the complaints about the Ice-skating Transformer and how shit did!? Well we were all thinking it! We have absolutely no evidence to prove it but... it just looks SO cartoony!

* Literally translating "G1 based" to mean taking the cartoon models. rendering them in 3D and sticking them in a movie with some cheap shaders on. I have no idea how ANYONE could be stupid enough to think that's what fans want, especially since half the fun of a movie is to see how they tweak the designs, but what have you.

* Following from the last point, failing to realise the other half of the fun of a movie is to see the characters we've grown to know and love in a movie. As long as it's GIANT ROBOTS THAT FUCKING TRANSFORM, it's Transformers. Not Gobots. Or Roadbots. Or Macross. Or those Gundams that sort of Transform.

* The bizarre notion that people actually think for themselves when being blasted full on with Hollywood hype designed to do exactly the opposite, and that anyone trying to get someone else to re-asses their own opinion is being a total NAZI.

* If it makes a lot of money, it's good and was done by geniuses. Generally, right wing economics are aces. This is probably why Hasbro rip off Sweden on the cost of Transformers, obviously, to prove that socialism could never work.

* Change is good. Any change. For any reason. G1 should be left behind where it is. I mean, it's not as if Spider-man, X-men, Fantastic Four and other similiarly ridiculous comic booky type things have remained in the same universe for decades.

* The argument that if something changes, the reason for someone being a fan of it may no longer be there, doesn't hold water. They just ignore it and make more comics about TAKARA SUPERIOR.

* PLASTIC. Constantly making fun of anyone who suggests that certain Transformer toys look "playskooly". The reason for this is that many Transformers toys appear "cheap" because of the use of somewhat translucent plastics which swallow details, and often in poor/unsuitable colour choices(some of Classics, a lot of Armada) which only appears to have been recently corrected(since the Animated toys use less detail). Anti-fans never really deal with this properly, going off on some stupid tangent or just making fun of the very assertion that a greedy corporate entity would cheap out on plastic or deco designers. Pointing out that Hasbro's Marvel Legends shows the same symptoms as their Transformers did, and that other lines had much better paint apps for your money, gets them very angry, and to claim incredible knowledge of the toy making procedure, yet never sharing it with any of us, especially the bit of how it's so much different for Hasbro than it is for Toybiz. Eventually, they just call you insane and ignore you, since nobody has to defend their weakly formulated support of sub-par toys to an insane person.
The reason the PLASTIC thing is the one that comes up the most often is that it's the most blatantly obviously true, so it takes a lot more delusional ranting to cover it up than other things.

* They almost always make out the cry for better paint apps to mean "EVERYTHING IN BLACK". Which is kind of funny, because these people also tend to support the movie, which has the motto EVERYTHING IN BLACK OR GREY. Attempting to improve the paint apps on Transformers will have them suddenly turn into Spawn figures, probably due to the evil magics of the GEEWUNNERS.

* This general irritating idea that "Generation 1" was just a phase of Transformers, and not the original, defining series. The fact that it was the only universe that was truly expanded through twice as many cartoons, hundreds of comics, hundreds of toys, and that pierced the mainstream and is still often harkened back to today, doesn't matter in their quest to feel more mature and piss on everyone that's stuck in the 80s. Because our current generation is SO MUCH more exciting. With all the crappy consumerism and cheesy pop music in our current era, it's nothing at all like the 80s with iPods and crappier non-mainstream bands.

* Failure to pay attention that Beast Wars was an entirely different context to G1, so many of the same defenses for it do not apply to the movie/other new cartoons.

* Names mean nothing and can be assigned to any character at any time. For instance, it would have been acceptable to call a short black guy with purple Mascara "Optimus Prime" in the movie, and it wouldn't have ruined Prime's public image, at all.

* Starscream is a rubbish character and the only interesting part of him that he's a traitor. All the millions of fans he has don't count since they're all gays and girls.

==History==

It got its start as an organized entity in the 1980s through the establishment of unofficial fan clubs, most notably [[TransMasters]], but it wasn't until the mid-1990s and the beginning of the Internet boom that fandom (both of Transformers and in general) took off. Starting in [[alt.toys.transformers]] and then expanding into innumerable web-based fora, the once tight-knit fandom is now too large for anyone to really know everyone. But would you really want to?

==External links==
*[http://www.shortpacked.com/ Shortpacked!] - A webcomic which frequently documents the academic findings of various fandoms.

[[Category:Fandom| ]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Fandom

2007-08-03T18:18:14Z

159.134.163.42:

Fandom

2007-08-03T18:17:29Z

159.134.163.42: /* Beliefs and Practices: */

{{shenanigans|It's apparently really mean?}}

The '''Transformers fandom''' is the most intelligent, discerning, sophisticated and important group of people in the world today. Without their charitable support, [[Hasbro]] would be forced to mothball the ''Transformers'' brand and would probably enter bankruptcy, taking the entire world economy with it.

==Accomplishments==

Among the amazing discoveries and conclusions of the fandom are the following:

*The ''Transformers'' brand is hanging onto life by the most fragile of threads, and any attempt to do something new will [[Ruined FOREVER|ruin ''Transformers'' forever]].
*Liking things is stupid. If you had half a brain you would realize how terrible everything is and complain about it endlessly. Further, this is rational and constructive behavior. Hasblo will never learn and get things right if we don't save them by telling them how stupid they are.
*Literally everybody hates [[Playskool]]ish [[neon]] colors, therefore toys will sell better if they are [[black repaint|entirely black]].
*Any feature included or removed [[for safety reasons]] is a slap in the face to [[true fan]]s.
*Children are not an important segment of the ''Transformers'' market.
*[[Prototype]]s and test shots that are clearly stamped with the words "not for sale" are actually totally fine to buy over eBay from people in China. There is nothing remotely shady about this.
*It is possible to determine with complete certainty that a product/franchise/work of art will suck as much as eight months before said entity is completed, much less shown to the public or actually released.
*The most important thing for the brand to do is release homages of ''[[Generation 1]]'' characters over and over and over and over and over.
*Any homage of a ''Generation 1'' character which is not given the [[Trademark|name]] of the original character is a direct insult to all fans.
*Any character which is given the name of a ''Generation 1'' character which is not an homage to the original character is a direct insult to all fans.
*Any character which is given the name of a ''Generation 1'' character and is also an homage of the same character but who doesn't behave exactly like the ''Generation 1'' character is a direct insult to all fans.
*Because all fans have an inalienable right to own every toy, toys which would never be released under normal circumstances should never be given a chance at release through [[exclusive]] channels. It would be better for the toy to never be released at all than for some people to get to enjoy it.
*Optimus is a [[trukk not munky|truck, not a monkey]].
*[[Armada (cartoon)|''Armada'']]? I think you mean ''Pokéformers''.
*[[Movie (franchise)|Bayformers]] are much less realistic than ''Generation 1'' Transformers.
* [[Dreamwave]]'s artwork was AWESOME as long as sales were high. Once the company started going downhill, everyone had suddenly always been fully aware how AWFUL [[Pat Lee|Superstar Funana]]'s art was right from the start.
*Japan is much more important and profitable market than North America. Nobody likes Europe, not even Hasbro.
*[[Takara]] products are always superior.
*Hasbro ruins everything Takara does.

==The Anti-Fans==

They obviously wrote the above "Parody", so let's see if they can take the heat.

The Anti-Fans are a group of insecure 20-30 something year olds who believe taking a more pessimistic, corporate worshipining position somehow makes you more mature. They operate on the larger boards, especially TFW2005 and Allspark which have very strict moderation; so they can get away with being very annoying without anyone attacking them or pointing out they're full of rubbish. They seem to make a living off mocking gripes of the fandom, because like, come on, what's more immature than collecting children's toys and complaining about them? Probably complainining incessantly about fans. But that's not the point!

The most famous Anti-Fans include It'sWalky, author of the Child Pornography comic strip [i]Shortpacked[/i], Khan, and Ben Stiller.

==Beliefs and Practices:==

* Hasbro are YOUR GODS. They're not 100% perfect, since you have to think they have one or two minor, insignifcant flaws just so you can say "I don't worship Hasbro!" after you just spend 300 words tearing into anyone who points out Classic Starscream's deco looks like shit.

* The movie is to be revered as the best thing that ever happened to the fandom. They were doing us a favour by completely disregarding the original designs and personalities of the some the original characters, hiring one of the most "MTV" directors in Hollywood. Anyone who hates the movie is a "hater", according to Don Murphy, Nelson, and the easily impressionable half of the fanbase that picked up on this bizarre form of viral marketting, and should be boiled alive. Apprently, disliking and liking something are not the flip side of the same coin as we've been led to believe. Oh no. If you hate things, it makes you evil, since it's easier on the peons' brains to think "Hate=Bad" than considering any level of complication.

* Going by this reasoning, the sheer prospect of Mariah Carey releasing a new album would generate enough Evil to raise Stalin, Saddam Hussein and Hitler's moustache from the dead. And turn Simon Cowell into some kind of fire breathing Demigod.

* Generation one was, like, cool in the 80s man, but it's no good now. I mean haven't you see the cartoon!? The like, plot is totally whack. I don't know exactly where but this guy told me and I think I kind of remember something about the Constructicons not being explained. The several hundred issue Marvel comic alternately does not exist, or is shit(without any explanation as to why, of course). This is why there are still constant slews of toys, comics, wallclocks and lampshades based on G1, yet comparitvely nothing on the much less well recieved Armada series - just to rub it in our faces how rubbish it is.

* Constant fixation on the TAKARA SUPERIOR thing, failing to realise that most fans consider both Hasbro and Takara equally hokey.

* Outright ignoring the fact that Hasbro fails to release slews of Transformers related product in Europe, and charges 2 to 3 times for it, for no logical reason, which harms sales horribly. Hasbro know what they're doing! I mean how do stay on top if they keep fucking up!? It's not as if they have brands like Transformers, GiJoe, and Marvel Legends that millions of kids and collectors will buy no matter what!

* Collectors do not matter. YOU do not matter. What you want does not matter. It is WRONG to fantasise, or want to be treated fairly for your lifelong support of Hasbro/Takaras product. You are the dirt beneath Aaron Archer's feat. You deserve to be rolled up and smoked by Don Murphy, or spend the rest of your days cleaning Michael Bay's enormous penis.

* Failing to realise that you probably should do what the collectors want, since kids will buy it anyway and feel all grown up buying collectory stuff.

* Instead of forming logical arguments as to why Transformers fans are so ridiculous; just make a shitty comic where a character based on the author gets increasingly angry at a misrepresentation of a particular practice of the fandom. This gains you loyal followers to do your arguing for you, but also makes you look like a bit of twat.

* Believing that the movie was anything more than a badly scripted Popcorn flick that invetibly broke all kinds of records simply due to the fact that it had lots of stuff blowing up in new and exciting ways, or claiming that Transformers could NEVER have been anything more than a rubbishy Popcorn flick, with no reason as to why. Once again, the Marvel comic book does not exist.

* The designs had to be changed to get across the idea that this is a bold, new, grown up Transformers, yet the plot and jokes are just about as immature as you can get.

* The new designs are the only way the Transformers could work in live action. Don't you remember all the complaints about the Ice-skating Transformer and how shit did!? Well we were all thinking it! We have absolutely no evidence to prove it but... it just looks SO cartoony!

* Literally translating "G1 based" to mean taking the cartoon models. rendering them in 3D and sticking them in a movie with some cheap shaders on. I have no idea how ANYONE could be stupid enough to think that's what fans want, especially since half the fun of a movie is to see how they tweak the designs, but what have you.

* Following from the last point, failing to realise the other half of the fun of a movie is to see the characters we've grown to know and love in a movie. As long as it's GIANT ROBOTS THAT FUCKING TRANSFORM, it's Transformers. Not Gobots. Or Roadbots. Or Macross. Or those Gundams that sort of Transform.

* The bizarre notion that people actually think for themselves when being blasted full on with Hollywood hype designed to do exactly the opposite, and that anyone trying to get someone else to re-asses their own opinion is being a total NAZI.

* If it makes a lot of money, it's good and was done by geniuses. Generally, right wing economics are aces. This is probably why Hasbro rip off Sweden on the cost of Transformers, obviously, to prove that socialism could never work.

* Change is good. Any change. For any reason. G1 should be left behind where it is. I mean, it's not as if Spider-man, X-men, Fantastic Four and other similiarly ridiculous comic booky type things have remained in the same universe for decades.

* The argument that if something changes, the reason for someone being a fan of it may no longer be there, doesn't hold water. They just ignore it and make more comics about TAKARA SUPERIOR.

* PLASTIC. Constantly making fun of anyone who suggests that certain Transformer toys look "playskooly". The reason for this is that many Transformers toys appear "cheap" because of the use of somewhat translucent plastics which swallow details, and often in poor/unsuitable colour choices(some of Classics, a lot of Armada) which only appears to have been recently corrected(since the Animated toys use less detail). Anti-fans never really deal with this properly, going off on some stupid tangent or just making fun of the very assertion that a greedy corporate entity would cheap out on plastic or deco designers. Pointing out that Hasbro's Marvel Legends shows the same symptoms as their Transformers did, and that other lines had much better paint apps for your money, gets them very angry, and to claim incredible knowledge of the toy making procedure, yet never sharing it with any of us, especially the bit of how it's so much different for Hasbro than it is for Toybiz. Eventually, they just call you insane and ignore you, since nobody has to defend their weakly formulated support of sub-par toys to an insane person.

* They almost always make out the cry for better paint apps to mean "EVERYTHING IN BLACK". Which is kind of funny, because these people also tend to support the movie, which has the motto EVERYTHING IN BLACK OR GREY. Attempting to improve the paint apps on Transformers will have them suddenly turn into Spawn figures, probably due to the evil magics of the GEEWUNNERS.

* This general irritating idea that "Generation 1" was just a phase of Transformers, and not the original, defining series. The fact that it was the only universe that was truly expanded through twice as many cartoons, hundreds of comics, hundreds of toys, and that pierced the mainstream and is still often harkened back to today, doesn't matter in their quest to feel more mature and piss on everyone that's stuck in the 80s. Because our current generation is SO MUCH more exciting. With all the crappy consumerism and cheesy pop music in our current era, it's nothing at all like the 80s with iPods and crappier non-mainstream bands.

* Failure to pay attention that Beast Wars was an entirely different context to G1, so many of the same defenses for it do not apply to the movie/other new cartoons.

* Names mean nothing and can be assigned to any character at any time. For instance, it would have been acceptable to call a short black guy with purple Mascara "Optimus Prime" in the movie, and it wouldn't have ruined Prime's public image, at all.

* Starscream is a rubbish character and the only interesting part of him that he's a traitor. All the millions of fans he has don't count since they're all gays and girls.

==History==

It got its start as an organized entity in the 1980s through the establishment of unofficial fan clubs, most notably [[TransMasters]], but it wasn't until the mid-1990s and the beginning of the Internet boom that fandom (both of Transformers and in general) took off. Starting in [[alt.toys.transformers]] and then expanding into innumerable web-based fora, the once tight-knit fandom is now too large for anyone to really know everyone. But would you really want to?

==External links==
*[http://www.shortpacked.com/ Shortpacked!] - A webcomic which frequently documents the academic findings of various fandoms.

[[Category:Fandom| ]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Fandom

2007-08-03T18:15:21Z

159.134.163.42: /* Beliefs and Practices: */

{{shenanigans|It's apparently really mean?}}

The '''Transformers fandom''' is the most intelligent, discerning, sophisticated and important group of people in the world today. Without their charitable support, [[Hasbro]] would be forced to mothball the ''Transformers'' brand and would probably enter bankruptcy, taking the entire world economy with it.

==Accomplishments==

Among the amazing discoveries and conclusions of the fandom are the following:

*The ''Transformers'' brand is hanging onto life by the most fragile of threads, and any attempt to do something new will [[Ruined FOREVER|ruin ''Transformers'' forever]].
*Liking things is stupid. If you had half a brain you would realize how terrible everything is and complain about it endlessly. Further, this is rational and constructive behavior. Hasblo will never learn and get things right if we don't save them by telling them how stupid they are.
*Literally everybody hates [[Playskool]]ish [[neon]] colors, therefore toys will sell better if they are [[black repaint|entirely black]].
*Any feature included or removed [[for safety reasons]] is a slap in the face to [[true fan]]s.
*Children are not an important segment of the ''Transformers'' market.
*[[Prototype]]s and test shots that are clearly stamped with the words "not for sale" are actually totally fine to buy over eBay from people in China. There is nothing remotely shady about this.
*It is possible to determine with complete certainty that a product/franchise/work of art will suck as much as eight months before said entity is completed, much less shown to the public or actually released.
*The most important thing for the brand to do is release homages of ''[[Generation 1]]'' characters over and over and over and over and over.
*Any homage of a ''Generation 1'' character which is not given the [[Trademark|name]] of the original character is a direct insult to all fans.
*Any character which is given the name of a ''Generation 1'' character which is not an homage to the original character is a direct insult to all fans.
*Any character which is given the name of a ''Generation 1'' character and is also an homage of the same character but who doesn't behave exactly like the ''Generation 1'' character is a direct insult to all fans.
*Because all fans have an inalienable right to own every toy, toys which would never be released under normal circumstances should never be given a chance at release through [[exclusive]] channels. It would be better for the toy to never be released at all than for some people to get to enjoy it.
*Optimus is a [[trukk not munky|truck, not a monkey]].
*[[Armada (cartoon)|''Armada'']]? I think you mean ''Pokéformers''.
*[[Movie (franchise)|Bayformers]] are much less realistic than ''Generation 1'' Transformers.
* [[Dreamwave]]'s artwork was AWESOME as long as sales were high. Once the company started going downhill, everyone had suddenly always been fully aware how AWFUL [[Pat Lee|Superstar Funana]]'s art was right from the start.
*Japan is much more important and profitable market than North America. Nobody likes Europe, not even Hasbro.
*[[Takara]] products are always superior.
*Hasbro ruins everything Takara does.

==The Anti-Fans==

They obviously wrote the above "Parody", so let's see if they can take the heat.

The Anti-Fans are a group of insecure 20-30 something year olds who believe taking a more pessimistic, corporate worshipining position somehow makes you more mature. They operate on the larger boards, especially TFW2005 and Allspark which have very strict moderation; so they can get away with being very annoying without anyone attacking them or pointing out they're full of rubbish. They seem to make a living off mocking gripes of the fandom, because like, come on, what's more immature than collecting children's toys and complaining about them? Probably complainining incessantly about fans. But that's not the point!

The most famous Anti-Fans include It'sWalky, author of the Child Pornography comic strip [i]Shortpacked[/i], Khan, and Ben Stiller.

==Beliefs and Practices:==

* Hasbro are YOUR GODS. They're not 100% perfect, since you have to think they have one or two minor, insignifcant flaws just so you can say "I don't worship Hasbro!" after you just spend 300 words tearing into anyone who points out Classic Starscream's deco looks like shit.

* The movie is to be revered as the best thing that ever happened to the fandom. They were doing us a favour by completely disregarding the original designs and personalities of the some the original characters, hiring one of the most "MTV" directors in Hollywood. Anyone who hates the movie is a "hater", according to Don Murphy, Nelson, and the easily impressionable half of the fanbase that picked up on this bizarre form of viral marketting, and should be boiled alive. Apprently, disliking and liking something are not the flip side of the same coin as we've been led to believe. Oh no. If you hate things, it makes you evil, since it's easier on the peons' brains to think "Hate=Bad" than considering any level of complication.

* Going by this reasoning, the sheer prospect of Mariah Carey releasing a new album would generate enough Evil to raise Stalin, Saddam Hussein and Hitler's moustache from the dead. And turn Simon Cowell into some kind of fire breathing Demigod.

* Generation one was, like, cool in the 80s man, but it's no good now. I mean haven't you see the cartoon!? The like, plot is totally whack. I don't know exactly where but this guy told me and I think I kind of remember something about the Constructicons not being explained. The several hundred issue Marvel comic alternately does not exist, or is shit(without any explanation as to why, of course). This is why there are still constant slews of toys, comics, wallclocks and lampshades based on G1, yet comparitvely nothing on the much less well recieved Armada series - just to rub it in our faces how rubbish it is.

* Constant fixation on the TAKARA SUPERIOR thing, failing to realise that most fans consider both Hasbro and Takara equally hokey.

* Outright ignoring the fact that Hasbro fails to release slews of Transformers related product in Europe, and charges 2 to 3 times for it, for no logical reason, which harms sales horribly. Hasbro know what they're doing! I mean how do stay on top if they keep fucking up!? It's not as if they have brands like Transformers, GiJoe, and Marvel Legends that millions of kids and collectors will buy no matter what!

* Collectors do not matter. YOU do not matter. What you want does not matter. It is WRONG to fantasise, or want to be treated fairly for your lifelong support of Hasbro/Takaras product. You are the dirt beneath Aaron Archer's feat. You deserve to be rolled up and smoked by Don Murphy, or spend the rest of your days cleaning Michael Bay's enormous penis.

* Failing to realise that you probably should do what the collectors want, since kids will buy it anyway and feel all grown up buying collectory stuff.

* Instead of forming logical arguments as to why Transformers fans are so ridiculous; just make a shitty comic where a character based on the author gets increasingly angry at a misrepresentation of a particular practice of the fandom. This gains you loyal followers to do your arguing for you, but also makes you look like a bit of twat.

* Believing that the movie was anything more than a badly scripted Popcorn flick that invetibly broke all kinds of records simply due to the fact that it had lots of stuff blowing up in new and exciting ways, or claiming that Transformers could NEVER have been anything more than a rubbishy Popcorn flick, with no reason as to why. Once again, the Marvel comic book does not exist.

* The designs had to be changed to get across the idea that this is a bold, new, grown up Transformers, yet the plot and jokes are just about as immature as you can get.

* The new designs are the only way the Transformers could work in live action. Don't you remember all the complaints about the Ice-skating Transformer and how shit did!? Well we were all thinking it! We have absolutely no evidence to prove it but... it just looks SO cartoony!

* Literally translating "G1 based" to mean taking the cartoon models. rendering them in 3D and sticking them in a movie with some cheap shaders on. I have no idea how ANYONE could be stupid enough to think that's what fans want, especially since half the fun of a movie is to see how they tweak the designs, but what have you.

* Following from the last point, failing to realise the other half of the fun of a movie is to see the characters we've grown to know and love in a movie. As long as it's GIANT ROBOTS THAT FUCKING TRANSFORM, it's Transformers. Not Gobots. Or Roadbots. Or Macross. Or those Gundams that sort of Transform.

* The bizarre notion that people actually think for themselves when being blasted full on with Hollywood hype designed to do exactly the opposite, and that anyone trying to get someone else to re-asses their own opinion is being a total NAZI.

* If it makes a lot of money, it's good and was done by geniuses. Generally, right wing economics are aces. This is probably why Hasbro rip off Sweden on the cost of Transformers, obviously, to prove that socialism could never work.

* Change is good. Any change. For any reason. G1 should be left behind where it is. I mean, it's not as if Spider-man, X-men, Fantastic Four and other similiarly ridiculous comic booky type things have remained in the same universe for decades.
The argument that if something changes, the reason for someone being a fan of it may no longer be there, doesn't hold water. They just ignore it and make more comics about TAKARA SUPERIOR.

* PLASTIC. Constantly making fun of anyone who suggests that certain Transformer toys look "playskooly". The reason for this is that many Transformers toys appear "cheap" because of the use of somewhat translucent plastics which swallow details, which only appears to have been recently corrected(since the Animated toys use less detail). Anti-fans never really deal with this properly, going off on some stupid tangent or just making fun of the very assertion that a greedy corporate entity would cheap out on plastic or deco designers. Pointing out that Hasbro's Marvel Legends shows the same symptoms as their Transformers did, and that other lines had much better paint apps for your money, gets them very angry, and to claim incredible knowledge of the toy making procedure, yet never sharing it with any of us, especially the bit of how it's so much different for Hasbro than it is for Toybiz. Eventually, they just call you insane and ignore you, since nobody has to defend their weakly formulated support of sub-par toys to an insane person.

* They almost always make out the cry for better paint apps to mean "EVERYTHING IN BLACK". Which is kind of funny, because these people also tend to support the movie, which has the motto EVERYTHING IN BLACK OR GREY. Attempting to improve the paint apps on Transformers will have them suddenly turn into Spawn figures, probably due to the evil magics of the GEEWUNNERS.

* This general irritating idea that "Generation 1" was just a phase of Transformers, and not the original, defining series. The fact that it was the only universe that was truly expanded through twice as many cartoons, hundreds of comics, hundreds of toys, and that pierced the mainstream and is still often harkened back to today, doesn't matter in their quest to feel more mature and piss on everyone that's stuck in the 80s. Because our current generation is SO MUCH more exciting. With all the crappy consumerism and cheesy pop music in our current era, it's nothing at all like the 80s with iPods and crappier non-mainstream bands.

* Failure to pay attention that Beast Wars was an entirely different context to G1, so many of the same defenses for it do not apply to the movie/other new cartoons.

* Names mean nothing and can be assigned to any character at any time. For instance, it would have been acceptable to call a short black guy with purple Mascara "Optimus Prime" in the movie, and it wouldn't have ruined Prime's public image, at all.

* Starscream is a rubbish character and the only interesting part of him that he's a traitor. All the millions of fans he has don't count since they're all gays and girls.

==History==

It got its start as an organized entity in the 1980s through the establishment of unofficial fan clubs, most notably [[TransMasters]], but it wasn't until the mid-1990s and the beginning of the Internet boom that fandom (both of Transformers and in general) took off. Starting in [[alt.toys.transformers]] and then expanding into innumerable web-based fora, the once tight-knit fandom is now too large for anyone to really know everyone. But would you really want to?

==External links==
*[http://www.shortpacked.com/ Shortpacked!] - A webcomic which frequently documents the academic findings of various fandoms.

[[Category:Fandom| ]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Fandom

2007-08-03T18:14:43Z

159.134.163.42: /* Beliefs and Practices: */

{{shenanigans|It's apparently really mean?}}

The '''Transformers fandom''' is the most intelligent, discerning, sophisticated and important group of people in the world today. Without their charitable support, [[Hasbro]] would be forced to mothball the ''Transformers'' brand and would probably enter bankruptcy, taking the entire world economy with it.

==Accomplishments==

Among the amazing discoveries and conclusions of the fandom are the following:

*The ''Transformers'' brand is hanging onto life by the most fragile of threads, and any attempt to do something new will [[Ruined FOREVER|ruin ''Transformers'' forever]].
*Liking things is stupid. If you had half a brain you would realize how terrible everything is and complain about it endlessly. Further, this is rational and constructive behavior. Hasblo will never learn and get things right if we don't save them by telling them how stupid they are.
*Literally everybody hates [[Playskool]]ish [[neon]] colors, therefore toys will sell better if they are [[black repaint|entirely black]].
*Any feature included or removed [[for safety reasons]] is a slap in the face to [[true fan]]s.
*Children are not an important segment of the ''Transformers'' market.
*[[Prototype]]s and test shots that are clearly stamped with the words "not for sale" are actually totally fine to buy over eBay from people in China. There is nothing remotely shady about this.
*It is possible to determine with complete certainty that a product/franchise/work of art will suck as much as eight months before said entity is completed, much less shown to the public or actually released.
*The most important thing for the brand to do is release homages of ''[[Generation 1]]'' characters over and over and over and over and over.
*Any homage of a ''Generation 1'' character which is not given the [[Trademark|name]] of the original character is a direct insult to all fans.
*Any character which is given the name of a ''Generation 1'' character which is not an homage to the original character is a direct insult to all fans.
*Any character which is given the name of a ''Generation 1'' character and is also an homage of the same character but who doesn't behave exactly like the ''Generation 1'' character is a direct insult to all fans.
*Because all fans have an inalienable right to own every toy, toys which would never be released under normal circumstances should never be given a chance at release through [[exclusive]] channels. It would be better for the toy to never be released at all than for some people to get to enjoy it.
*Optimus is a [[trukk not munky|truck, not a monkey]].
*[[Armada (cartoon)|''Armada'']]? I think you mean ''Pokéformers''.
*[[Movie (franchise)|Bayformers]] are much less realistic than ''Generation 1'' Transformers.
* [[Dreamwave]]'s artwork was AWESOME as long as sales were high. Once the company started going downhill, everyone had suddenly always been fully aware how AWFUL [[Pat Lee|Superstar Funana]]'s art was right from the start.
*Japan is much more important and profitable market than North America. Nobody likes Europe, not even Hasbro.
*[[Takara]] products are always superior.
*Hasbro ruins everything Takara does.

==The Anti-Fans==

They obviously wrote the above "Parody", so let's see if they can take the heat.

The Anti-Fans are a group of insecure 20-30 something year olds who believe taking a more pessimistic, corporate worshipining position somehow makes you more mature. They operate on the larger boards, especially TFW2005 and Allspark which have very strict moderation; so they can get away with being very annoying without anyone attacking them or pointing out they're full of rubbish. They seem to make a living off mocking gripes of the fandom, because like, come on, what's more immature than collecting children's toys and complaining about them? Probably complainining incessantly about fans. But that's not the point!

The most famous Anti-Fans include It'sWalky, author of the Child Pornography comic strip [i]Shortpacked[/i], Khan, and Ben Stiller.

==Beliefs and Practices:==

* Hasbro are YOUR GODS. They're not 100% perfect, since you have to think they have one or two minor, insignifcant flaws just so you can say "I don't worship Hasbro!" after you just spend 300 words tearing into anyone who points out Classic Starscream's deco looks like shit.

* The movie is to be revered as the best thing that ever happened to the fandom. They were doing us a favour by completely disregarding the original designs and personalities of the some the original characters, hiring one of the most "MTV" directors in Hollywood. Anyone who hates the movie is a "hater", according to Don Murphy, Nelson, and the easily impressionable half of the fanbase that picked up on this bizarre form of viral marketting, and should be boiled alive.
Apprently, disliking and liking something are not the flip side of the same coin as we've been led to believe. Oh no. If you hate things, it makes you evil, since it's easier on the peons' brains to think "Hate=Bad" than considering any level of complication.

* Going by this reasoning, the sheer prospect of Mariah Carey releasing a new album would generate enough Evil to raise Stalin, Saddam Hussein and Hitler's moustache from the dead. And turn Simon Cowell into some kind of fire breathing Demigod.

* Generation one was, like, cool in the 80s man, but it's no good now. I mean haven't you see the cartoon!? The like, plot is totally whack. I don't know exactly where but this guy told me and I think I kind of remember something about the Constructicons not being explained. The several hundred issue Marvel comic alternately does not exist, or is shit(without any explanation as to why, of course).
This is why there are still constant slews of toys, comics, wallclocks and lampshades based on G1, yet comparitvely nothing on the much less well recieved Armada series - just to rub it in our faces how rubbish it is.

* Constant fixation on the TAKARA SUPERIOR thing, failing to realise that most fans consider both Hasbro and Takara equally hokey.

* Outright ignoring the fact that Hasbro fails to release slews of Transformers related product in Europe, and charges 2 to 3 times for it, for no logical reason, which harms sales horribly. Hasbro know what they're doing! I mean how do stay on top if they keep fucking up!? It's not as if they have brands like Transformers, GiJoe, and Marvel Legends that millions of kids and collectors will buy no matter what!

* Collectors do not matter. YOU do not matter. What you want does not matter. It is WRONG to fantasise, or want to be treated fairly for your lifelong support of Hasbro/Takaras product. You are the dirt beneath Aaron Archer's feat. You deserve to be rolled up and smoked by Don Murphy, or spend the rest of your days cleaning Michael Bay's enormous penis.

* Failing to realise that you probably should do what the collectors want, since kids will buy it anyway and feel all grown up buying collectory stuff.

* Instead of forming logical arguments as to why Transformers fans are so ridiculous; just make a shitty comic where a character based on the author gets increasingly angry at a misrepresentation of a particular practice of the fandom. This gains you loyal followers to do your arguing for you, but also makes you look like a bit of twat.

* Believing that the movie was anything more than a badly scripted Popcorn flick that invetibly broke all kinds of records simply due to the fact that it had lots of stuff blowing up in new and exciting ways, or claiming that Transformers could NEVER have been anything more than a rubbishy Popcorn flick, with no reason as to why. Once again, the Marvel comic book does not exist.

* The designs had to be changed to get across the idea that this is a bold, new, grown up Transformers, yet the plot and jokes are just about as immature as you can get.

* The new designs are the only way the Transformers could work in live action. Don't you remember all the complaints about the Ice-skating Transformer and how shit did!? Well we were all thinking it! We have absolutely no evidence to prove it but... it just looks SO cartoony!

* Literally translating "G1 based" to mean taking the cartoon models. rendering them in 3D and sticking them in a movie with some cheap shaders on. I have no idea how ANYONE could be stupid enough to think that's what fans want, especially since half the fun of a movie is to see how they tweak the designs, but what have you.

* Following from the last point, failing to realise the other half of the fun of a movie is to see the characters we've grown to know and love in a movie. As long as it's GIANT ROBOTS THAT FUCKING TRANSFORM, it's Transformers. Not Gobots. Or Roadbots. Or Macross. Or those Gundams that sort of Transform.

* The bizarre notion that people actually think for themselves when being blasted full on with Hollywood hype designed to do exactly the opposite, and that anyone trying to get someone else to re-asses their own opinion is being a total NAZI.

* If it makes a lot of money, it's good and was done by geniuses. Generally, right wing economics are aces. This is probably why Hasbro rip off Sweden on the cost of Transformers, obviously, to prove that socialism could never work.

* Change is good. Any change. For any reason. G1 should be left behind where it is. I mean, it's not as if Spider-man, X-men, Fantastic Four and other similiarly ridiculous comic booky type things have remained in the same universe for decades.
The argument that if something changes, the reason for someone being a fan of it may no longer be there, doesn't hold water. They just ignore it and make more comics about TAKARA SUPERIOR.

* PLASTIC. Constantly making fun of anyone who suggests that certain Transformer toys look "playskooly". The reason for this is that many Transformers toys appear "cheap" because of the use of somewhat translucent plastics which swallow details, which only appears to have been recently corrected(since the Animated toys use less detail). Anti-fans never really deal with this properly, going off on some stupid tangent or just making fun of the very assertion that a greedy corporate entity would cheap out on plastic or deco designers. Pointing out that Hasbro's Marvel Legends shows the same symptoms as their Transformers did, and that other lines had much better paint apps for your money, gets them very angry, and to claim incredible knowledge of the toy making procedure, yet never sharing it with any of us, especially the bit of how it's so much different for Hasbro than it is for Toybiz.
Eventually, they just call you insane and ignore you, since nobody has to defend their weakly formulated support of sub-par toys to an insane person.

* They almost always make out the cry for better paint apps to mean "EVERYTHING IN BLACK". Which is kind of funny, because these people also tend to support the movie, which has the motto EVERYTHING IN BLACK OR GREY. Attempting to improve the paint apps on Transformers will have them suddenly turn into Spawn figures, probably due to the evil magics of the GEEWUNNERS.

* This general irritating idea that "Generation 1" was just a phase of Transformers, and not the original, defining series. The fact that it was the only universe that was truly expanded through twice as many cartoons, hundreds of comics, hundreds of toys, and that pierced the mainstream and is still often harkened back to today, doesn't matter in their quest to feel more mature and piss on everyone that's stuck in the 80s. Because our current generation is SO MUCH more exciting. With all the crappy consumerism and cheesy pop music in our current era, it's nothing at all like the 80s with iPods and crappier non-mainstream bands.

* Failure to pay attention that Beast Wars was an entirely different context to G1, so many of the same defenses for it do not apply to the movie/other new cartoons.

* Names mean nothing and can be assigned to any character at any time. For instance, it would have been acceptable to call a short black guy with purple Mascara "Optimus Prime" in the movie, and it wouldn't have ruined Prime's public image, at all.

* Starscream is a rubbish character and the only interesting part of him that he's a traitor. All the millions of fans he has don't count since they're all gays and girls.

==History==

It got its start as an organized entity in the 1980s through the establishment of unofficial fan clubs, most notably [[TransMasters]], but it wasn't until the mid-1990s and the beginning of the Internet boom that fandom (both of Transformers and in general) took off. Starting in [[alt.toys.transformers]] and then expanding into innumerable web-based fora, the once tight-knit fandom is now too large for anyone to really know everyone. But would you really want to?

==External links==
*[http://www.shortpacked.com/ Shortpacked!] - A webcomic which frequently documents the academic findings of various fandoms.

[[Category:Fandom| ]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Fandom

2007-08-03T18:13:41Z

159.134.163.42:

{{shenanigans|It's apparently really mean?}}

The '''Transformers fandom''' is the most intelligent, discerning, sophisticated and important group of people in the world today. Without their charitable support, [[Hasbro]] would be forced to mothball the ''Transformers'' brand and would probably enter bankruptcy, taking the entire world economy with it.

==Accomplishments==

Among the amazing discoveries and conclusions of the fandom are the following:

*The ''Transformers'' brand is hanging onto life by the most fragile of threads, and any attempt to do something new will [[Ruined FOREVER|ruin ''Transformers'' forever]].
*Liking things is stupid. If you had half a brain you would realize how terrible everything is and complain about it endlessly. Further, this is rational and constructive behavior. Hasblo will never learn and get things right if we don't save them by telling them how stupid they are.
*Literally everybody hates [[Playskool]]ish [[neon]] colors, therefore toys will sell better if they are [[black repaint|entirely black]].
*Any feature included or removed [[for safety reasons]] is a slap in the face to [[true fan]]s.
*Children are not an important segment of the ''Transformers'' market.
*[[Prototype]]s and test shots that are clearly stamped with the words "not for sale" are actually totally fine to buy over eBay from people in China. There is nothing remotely shady about this.
*It is possible to determine with complete certainty that a product/franchise/work of art will suck as much as eight months before said entity is completed, much less shown to the public or actually released.
*The most important thing for the brand to do is release homages of ''[[Generation 1]]'' characters over and over and over and over and over.
*Any homage of a ''Generation 1'' character which is not given the [[Trademark|name]] of the original character is a direct insult to all fans.
*Any character which is given the name of a ''Generation 1'' character which is not an homage to the original character is a direct insult to all fans.
*Any character which is given the name of a ''Generation 1'' character and is also an homage of the same character but who doesn't behave exactly like the ''Generation 1'' character is a direct insult to all fans.
*Because all fans have an inalienable right to own every toy, toys which would never be released under normal circumstances should never be given a chance at release through [[exclusive]] channels. It would be better for the toy to never be released at all than for some people to get to enjoy it.
*Optimus is a [[trukk not munky|truck, not a monkey]].
*[[Armada (cartoon)|''Armada'']]? I think you mean ''Pokéformers''.
*[[Movie (franchise)|Bayformers]] are much less realistic than ''Generation 1'' Transformers.
* [[Dreamwave]]'s artwork was AWESOME as long as sales were high. Once the company started going downhill, everyone had suddenly always been fully aware how AWFUL [[Pat Lee|Superstar Funana]]'s art was right from the start.
*Japan is much more important and profitable market than North America. Nobody likes Europe, not even Hasbro.
*[[Takara]] products are always superior.
*Hasbro ruins everything Takara does.

==The Anti-Fans==

They obviously wrote the above "Parody", so let's see if they can take the heat.

The Anti-Fans are a group of insecure 20-30 something year olds who believe taking a more pessimistic, corporate worshipining position somehow makes you more mature. They operate on the larger boards, especially TFW2005 and Allspark which have very strict moderation; so they can get away with being very annoying without anyone attacking them or pointing out they're full of rubbish. They seem to make a living off mocking gripes of the fandom, because like, come on, what's more immature than collecting children's toys and complaining about them? Probably complainining incessantly about fans. But that's not the point!

The most famous Anti-Fans include It'sWalky, author of the Child Pornography comic strip [i]Shortpacked[/i], Khan, and Ben Stiller.

==Beliefs and Practices:==

*Hasbro are YOUR GODS. They're not 100% perfect, since you have to think they have one or two minor, insignifcant flaws just so you can say "I don't worship Hasbro!" after you just spend 300 words tearing into anyone who points out Classic Starscream's deco looks like shit.

*The movie is to be revered as the best thing that ever happened to the fandom. They were doing us a favour by completely disregarding the original designs and personalities of the some the original characters, hiring one of the most "MTV" directors in Hollywood. Anyone who hates the movie is a "hater", according to Don Murphy, Nelson, and the easily impressionable half of the fanbase that picked up on this bizarre form of viral marketting, and should be boiled alive.
Apprently, disliking and liking something are not the flip side of the same coin as we've been led to believe. Oh no. If you hate things, it makes you evil, since it's easier on the peons' brains to think "Hate=Bad" than considering any level of complication.

*Going by this reasoning, the sheer prospect of Mariah Carey releasing a new album would generate enough Evil to raise Stalin, Saddam Hussein and Hitler's moustache from the dead. And turn Simon Cowell into some kind of fire breathing Demigod.

*Generation one was, like, cool in the 80s man, but it's no good now. I mean haven't you see the cartoon!? The like, plot is totally whack. I don't know exactly where but this guy told me and I think I kind of remember something about the Constructicons not being explained. The several hundred issue Marvel comic alternately does not exist, or is shit(without any explanation as to why, of course).
This is why there are still constant slews of toys, comics, wallclocks and lampshades based on G1, yet comparitvely nothing on the much less well recieved Armada series - just to rub it in our faces how rubbish it is.

* Constant fixation on the TAKARA SUPERIOR thing, failing to realise that most fans consider both Hasbro and Takara equally hokey.

* Outright ignoring the fact that Hasbro fails to release slews of Transformers related product in Europe, and charges 2 to 3 times for it, for no logical reason, which harms sales horribly. Hasbro know what they're doing! I mean how do stay on top if they keep fucking up!? It's not as if they have brands like Transformers, GiJoe, and Marvel Legends that millions of kids and collectors will buy no matter what!

* Collectors do not matter. YOU do not matter. What you want does not matter. It is WRONG to fantasise, or want to be treated fairly for your lifelong support of Hasbro/Takaras product. You are the dirt beneath Aaron Archer's feat. You deserve to be rolled up and smoked by Don Murphy, or spend the rest of your days cleaning Michael Bay's enormous penis.

* Failing to realise that you probably should do what the collectors want, since kids will buy it anyway and feel all grown up buying collectory stuff.

* Instead of forming logical arguments as to why Transformers fans are so ridiculous; just make a shitty comic where a character based on the author gets increasingly angry at a misrepresentation of a particular practice of the fandom. This gains you loyal followers to do your arguing for you, but also makes you look like a bit of twat.

* Believing that the movie was anything more than a badly scripted Popcorn flick that invetibly broke all kinds of records simply due to the fact that it had lots of stuff blowing up in new and exciting ways, or claiming that Transformers could NEVER have been anything more than a rubbishy Popcorn flick, with no reason as to why. Once again, the Marvel comic book does not exist.

* The designs had to be changed to get across the idea that this is a bold, new, grown up Transformers, yet the plot and jokes are just about as immature as you can get.

* The new designs are the only way the Transformers could work in live action. Don't you remember all the complaints about the Ice-skating Transformer and how shit did!? Well we were all thinking it! We have absolutely no evidence to prove it but... it just looks SO cartoony!

* Literally translating "G1 based" to mean taking the cartoon models. rendering them in 3D and sticking them in a movie with some cheap shaders on. I have no idea how ANYONE could be stupid enough to think that's what fans want, especially since half the fun of a movie is to see how they tweak the designs, but what have you.

* Following from the last point, failing to realise the other half of the fun of a movie is to see the characters we've grown to know and love in a movie. As long as it's GIANT ROBOTS THAT FUCKING TRANSFORM, it's Transformers. Not Gobots. Or Roadbots. Or Macross. Or those Gundams that sort of Transform.

* The bizarre notion that people actually think for themselves when being blasted full on with Hollywood hype designed to do exactly the opposite, and that anyone trying to get someone else to re-asses their own opinion is being a total NAZI.

* If it makes a lot of money, it's good and was done by geniuses. Generally, right wing economics are aces. This is probably why Hasbro rip off Sweden on the cost of Transformers, obviously, to prove that socialism could never work.

* Change is good. Any change. For any reason. G1 should be left behind where it is. I mean, it's not as if Spider-man, X-men, Fantastic Four and other similiarly ridiculous comic booky type things have remained in the same universe for decades.
The argument that if something changes, the reason for someone being a fan of it may no longer be there, doesn't hold water. They just ignore it and make more comics about TAKARA SUPERIOR.

* PLASTIC. Constantly making fun of anyone who suggests that certain Transformer toys look "playskooly". The reason for this is that many Transformers toys appear "cheap" because of the use of somewhat translucent plastics which swallow details, which only appears to have been recently corrected(since the Animated toys use less detail). Anti-fans never really deal with this properly, going off on some stupid tangent or just making fun of the very assertion that a greedy corporate entity would cheap out on plastic or deco designers.
Pointing out that Hasbro's Marvel Legends shows the same symptoms as their Transformers did, and that other lines had much better paint apps for your money, gets them very angry, and to claim incredible knowledge of the toy making procedure, yet never sharing it with any of us, especially the bit of how it's so much different for Hasbro than it is for Toybiz.
Eventually, they just call you insane and ignore you, since nobody has to defend their weakly formulated support of sub-par toys to an insane person.

* They almost always make out the cry for better paint apps to mean "EVERYTHING IN BLACK". Which is kind of funny, because these people also tend to support the movie, which has the motto EVERYTHING IN BLACK OR GREY. Attempting to improve the paint apps on Transformers will have them suddenly turn into Spawn figures, probably due to the evil magics of the GEEWUNNERS.

* This general irritating idea that "Generation 1" was just a phase of Transformers, and not the original, defining series. The fact that it was the only universe that was truly expanded through twice as many cartoons, hundreds of comics, hundreds of toys, and that pierced the mainstream and is still often harkened back to today, doesn't matter in their quest to feel more mature and piss on everyone that's stuck in the 80s. Because our current generation is SO MUCH more exciting. With all the crappy consumerism and cheesy pop music in our current era, it's nothing at all like the 80s with iPods and crappier non-mainstream bands.

* Failure to pay attention that Beast Wars was an entirely different context to G1, so many of the same defenses for it do not apply to the movie/other new cartoons.

* Names mean nothing and can be assigned to any character at any time. For instance, it would have been acceptable to call a short black guy with purple Mascara "Optimus Prime" in the movie, and it wouldn't have ruined Prime's public image, at all.

* Starscream is a rubbish character and the only interesting part of him that he's a traitor. All the millions of fans he has don't count since they're all gays and girls.

==History==

It got its start as an organized entity in the 1980s through the establishment of unofficial fan clubs, most notably [[TransMasters]], but it wasn't until the mid-1990s and the beginning of the Internet boom that fandom (both of Transformers and in general) took off. Starting in [[alt.toys.transformers]] and then expanding into innumerable web-based fora, the once tight-knit fandom is now too large for anyone to really know everyone. But would you really want to?

==External links==
*[http://www.shortpacked.com/ Shortpacked!] - A webcomic which frequently documents the academic findings of various fandoms.

[[Category:Fandom| ]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>