Talk:Alice (ROTF)

2010-04-30T04:31:06Z

173.233.65.154: /* thanks for the post */ new section

== Pretender? ==

Would it be accurate to consider that Alice might be a Pretender? Doesn't seem to transform, just covers herself in a shell.
: She's not a Pretender by our definition. She's more like Optimus Primal - a robot that transforms into an organic primate. There's no shell involved at all. Mind, the powers that be may say she's a Pretender anyhow. Until then, she's just a Transformer who transforms into a human. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:39, 26 June 2009 (EDT)
::How exactly did she transform? The "skin" just seemed to fold back, revealing the robot beneath, with no actual shape-changing.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 09:48, 26 June 2009 (EDT)
::: I think that, if anything official calls her a 'Pretender', including semi-official things like interviews with people who would know, we could call her one. Otherwise, though, it's just another Sari Sumdac situation. Her conversion from human to robot was different enough than any prior depiction of pretenders (splitting in half or phasing out, like in the Marvel comic, or disappearing in a burst of light or puff of smoke, like in Masterforce) that we'd be taking too big a leap. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 10:10, 26 June 2009 (EDT)
::::I know it probably doesn't mean much, but in [http://au.movies.ign.com/articles/944/944836p1.html this interview] Orci says "there is a Pretender". -[[User:Mazenoise|Mazenoise]] 10:13, 26 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::Well, as far as I'm concerned, that'd be enough. I don't know if that will be the consensus around here. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 10:23, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

The film's producers do seem to intend this to be their take on the pretender concept.

For what it's worth, it looked ''to me'' like she had little 'tiles' of flesh all over her body that folded back. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 10:25, 26 June 2009 (EDT)
:I agree that I think that was their intention. But that makes it a little difficult to define a Pretender in the movieverse. Pretenders typically have a shell ''and'' altmode. All Transformers pretend to be something else. What makes a Camaro different than a human? Is a Pretender simply a Transformer with a biological altmode, or a Transformer with an altmode mimicking any other life-from? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 10:40, 26 June 2009 (EDT)
:If i might add, she is alto like a terminator, in that she's a robot covered in a soft organic "alive" shell to fool humans. The only thing different is that she can "retract" it(somehow, the tip of her tongue does not). would that be worth noting?--[[User:Sunjumper|Sunjumper]] 11:10, 26 June 2009 (EDT)
::Also, not every Pretender has an alt mode - see the Dinoforce. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 11:12, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

:::It's possible Alice ''has'' an altmode beyond her shell, she just didn't transform.
:::I agree that Alice's "integrated shell" is unique among Pretenders... but they ''called'' her a Pretender in interviews. (Which we seriously need a cite for.) I agree she's a ''different type'' of Pretender... but we've had pretenders with pop-open shells, phase-out shells, remote-control shells, disappearing size-reducing shells, animal shells, vehicle shells, combining and transforming shells... this isn't really far out of line for that.
:::It's ''complicated'' by the original Honda/Alive-in-Wonderland plot, but that genuinely seems to have been cut from the theatrical version-- all traces were excused. So we're left with the simple fact-- she can turn into a human-- something ''none'' of the other Transformers are able to mimic, and the producers called her a Pretender in interviews.
:::She's a Pretender. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 11:25, 26 June 2009 (EDT)
::::Someone who's got the exact wording needs to add a quote to this article of the "I'll pretend to be your girlfriend, you pretend to be my boyfriend" line. That's probably my favorite line from the entire movie, for being such a subtle nod. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 16:05, 27 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::I'd definitely vote for classing her as a Pretender, albeit a Movieverse variation on the concept. After all, the Japanese-verse Masterforce Petenders didn't really have literal "shells" ''per se'', right? They just sort of magically changed from human to robot in a weird lightshow, didn't they?[[Special:Contributions/114.78.235.104|114.78.235.104]] 09:19, 28 June 2009 (EDT)

I like the way that anonymous poster thinks. Pretenders aren't necessarily the exact same thing in each continuity they appear in, so I would go ahead and say Alice is a Movie-style Pretender.{{unsigned|Fallen13|10:44, June 28, 2009 EDT}}

Going by this rather loose definition of pretender, I think the [[crab spy]] is a pretender. He is mimicking a biological life-form. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 12:12, 28 June 2009 (EDT)
:Save for the fact that one has been stated to be a Pretender by the creators, and one has not.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 12:21, 28 June 2009 (EDT)
::I don't know what a movieverse pretender is then. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 12:29, 28 June 2009 (EDT)
:::At this point, the animatronic angle seems to be the most solid we have. The category is just a formality, like "Triple-Changer." --[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 12:34, 28 June 2009 (EDT)
::::And, keep in mind, beast-formers are supposed to be a related technology to pretenders.. so it's not that strange if she has aspects of both. {{unsigned|75.73.70.113|14:45, July 12, 2009 EDT}}
:::::Seriously? I never heard that about beast formers. That should be noted on the [[beast mode]] page (with citations). - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 15:17, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
:::: [[Size_changing#Pretenders]]
What is her purpose? and why?

== Trivia ==
Interesting tidbit of trivia is that in addition to some other effects in the movie, Michael Bay commissioned Digital Domain to work three months on a two second close up of Alice's face transforming. Incidentally, one of the key owners of Digital Domain is...Michael Bay. Way to funnel that budget. [[User:Riddlerj|Riddlerj]] 20:28, 7 July 2009 (EDT)
http://gizmodo.com/5305809/why-just-2-seconds-of-transformers-2-took-3-months-to-complete

== Protected ==

I just have to know, Why is this page protected? none of the other Movie characters are, and there is no spoilers cos most fans have seen the movie, so why the heck is the page protected?--[[Special:Contributions/92.238.160.11|92.238.160.11]] 13:44, 24 July 2009 (EDT)

== Alice from Orlando in the film? ==

Does Alice happen to say she is from Orlando in the film, or that she has a prince for a boyfriend? That would be an awesome tie-in to the animatronic origin story. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 11:25, 15 October 2009 (EDT)

== Weird question... ==

Are we sure she is a female Transformer? By which I mean her altmode/shell is female, but has anything ever said that the robot itself is female? [[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 10:46, 9 November 2009 (EST)
:Allspark Almanac apparently confirmed it. [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 10:51, 9 November 2009 (EST)
:Also, her robot mode has boobs and Medusa hair. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:51, 9 November 2009 (EST)
::That could be altmode kibble. Just kidding! - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 15:14, 18 February 2010 (EST)

== Maybe weirder question? ==

Has any source tried to explain yet how mimicking an animatronic doll gives you the appearance of a flesh and blood human? If she was smart enough to fix the texture issue, surely she'd know to remove the nameplate...{{unsigned|173.11.36.169|14:57, February 18, 2010 (EDT)}}
:No. But it must have been very high-end animatronics. Possibly from Japan. Or Sector Seven. They did sell N.B.E. 01 tech for money, didn't they? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 15:14, 18 February 2010 (EST)
::Yeah, see, that's why I figured that particular scene being cut from the movie helped Alice make more sense. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 16:32, 18 February 2010 (EST)

== thanks for the post ==

Wow this is a great resource.. I’m enjoying it.. good article

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Talk:Alice (ROTF)