MediaWiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Lio Convoy (BW)

2007-08-14T23:47:21Z

193.120.116.179:

==Name Change==

We should probably use a different image for Lio's main one. Namely, one of his first toy-body in normal colors. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:33, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

*Yeah, I never really intended to use that as the main one, just as a place-holder since Google wasn't finding me anything better. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 20:34, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

::Can we move this to [[Leo Prime]] now? Please? [[User:Singularity|Singularity]] 14:46, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
:::Oh, Lord yes! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:14, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::: Have we seen the back of his card to be sure Leo Prime is definately the same character? I mean clearly the deco is inspired by him, I'm just wondering if we've seen the bio. (Even if we havn't, it probably WILL be him, I know, but we wont be 100% sure till we see.)

::::It's probably in the history now and I can't change it, but there was an angry and non-researched well rant here by me a while ago. I've changed my mind a little. Blog entry explains all.

:::::We can't check your blog if we don't know who you are. Please, register a username and sign your posts with four tildes - and welcome to Teletraan I. - [[User:RolonBolon|RolonBolon]] 07:06, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

::::::It's Onslaught Six. I have an account here and I know about the tildes. I just don't feel like logging in and stuff.

:::::::Well, if you don't care enough to do that, why should we care about what you have to say? - [[User:RolonBolon|RolonBolon]] 21:10, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

==Personality==

Did Leo Prime have any actual personality in the Japanese stuff to record as his profile? As of right now it's mostly kinda a recounting of BW2 continuity specific story material rather than a true character profile. We should definately have a real profile whenever the IDW BW Guide comes out (soooon peeaaasse) but I was wondering if there was anything we could say about him personality wise as of now? What little I remember is pretty much "generic leader." [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 02:00, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

He's a Japanese leader. That means he has zero personality. Honestly, he was dull as dishwater in BWII. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 03:12, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

:I dunno, doesn't Leiconvoy party hard? Is eem to recall an episodew where he frank a lot of beer. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:25, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Wow, franking beer *is* pretty unique behavior. (I don't usually point out spelling, but I just find this one really funny.) It wouldn't surprise me too much if he was a partier, Japan seems to like the idea of TFs getting drunk. Although I would think that'd be more Big Convoys thing, off hand. [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 12:30, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

==Name Change: Part Deux==

Question: Now that we know that the Classic "Legends" figures have no character/bio info on the cards (we DO know that right, I'm not imagining it?) don't we have to question if "Leo Prime" is actually the same characters as "Lio Convoy"? I mean, *YES* his deco is definately a homage, but LOTS of Universe toys feature homage-decos and the *exact* same names as existing G1 characters, and we've consistantly and purposely refused to treat them as being new versions of the existing robots here, because there's no official proof/bio/characterization one way or the other. Leo Prime's case is pretty much exactly the same thing isn't it (or possibly even weaker, since in those cases even the names matched perfectly)? Certianly a homage, but with nothing official to confirm it, there's no way to really say he's the same guy from BW2. Not officially. Am I missing something? [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 12:16, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

*I agree. The decision to change the name seemed premature to me. What is the basis for saying they are one in the same? --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 14:11, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

*They do have bios, albeit short ones. Leo Prime's has "Cybertronian Supreme Commander" in it somewhere. Also, Classics isn't comparable to Universe because it is stated to be a continuation of G1 and doesn't involve multiple universe-hopping. We don't have [[Megatron (Classics)]] or [[Trypticon (Classics)]] pages. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 14:57, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
: What Int said. Though it will all come down to what they call him in IDW's BW profile book, I imagine. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:05, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Spinning offa this, is there now more solid precedent for renaming Overlord as Gigatron? HOC is at least as valid as LOC, if anything it's actually more detailed. I understand some people are reluctant due to Dreamwave giving their character of Gigatron a completely different backstory than the fictional Overlord ever could have had--however, no material was ever canonically published that linked Overlord to Gigatron. Just interviews with Patyk/McDonaugh about where they'd like to take the character. It strikes me as no more consequential than 'The Greater Ape'. So why not rename?
:The European (thus, UK) release is named "Overlord". [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 03:10, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

:::I think we're waiting on Overlord until we get maybe another universe for him...? there's enough of a case to say ovelord = Gigatron IMO, but they're treated '''so''' differently...-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:46, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
::::Again, though, there are TONS of instances of characters who are portrayed wildly different in different continuities. Take Marvel Grimlock vs. Cartoon Grimlock. Or Shockwave. Or Blaster. Hell, in Dreamwave's continuity, Scourge and Cyclonus are completely different robots rather than being reformatted from the seekers or the Insecticons. Should they get different pages, too? It's quite clear that Overlord and Gigatron are meant to be the same character, even if they were portrayed differently in different continuities. The same holds true for Leo Prime and Lio Convoy - [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 08:00, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

::::Hey, you're preaching to the converted here.. I think part of the problem is- what do you call him? he got an einglish-language release as overlord. if he was renamed Gigatron... we don''t usually 'respect' renames on the Wiki. (Silverstreak, et al.) Except- in Dreamwave continuity is HIS Gigatron.. but BY FAR he's best RECOGNIZED as Overlord. And, you know, actually saw release under that name. It's a pickle. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 08:22, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
:::::His American release was Gigatron. Isn't that pretty much the standard we're using? - [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 08:52, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

::::::*shrug* I will not oppose moving the article to Gigatron. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 09:14, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

:::In my opinion, if we were to consider J-Overlord and Gigatron the same character, then the same would apply to Lightfoot and Getaway, or Road King and Slapdash, etc. They're humans in robot suits, which their Western counterparts are not. Gigatron is the Hosehead to Overlord's Cab. Quite frankly, I advcoate making Gigatron as separate character article, just as the other Powermasters have separate articles from THEIR Godmaster counterparts, similar tech specs be damned. But, yeah, I'm probably in the minority on that. The problem, I suppose, comes with figuring out where Eurolord goes. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 10:57, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::No, I'm down with that. I figure Masterforce Overlord should have his own separate article since he's a very distinctly separate... organism, then Eurolord/Gigatron a separate article. As for which name he'd go under, I vote Gigatron, since that's how we've got all the other Euro transplants from G2. (And is similar techs were all that, Charger would be Slag, and BM Mirage Skywarp.) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:49, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

::::At this time and on little sleep, I would guess that Powermaster Gigatron and Eurolord fall under the same category as, say, G2 Laser Rod Jolt and G2 Illuminator Hotrod - essentially the same character with some details changed to suit the market. Saying that, I realize that Gigatron and Overlord have entirely different bios, but comparing [http://www.cobraislandtoys.com/tf/1988/overlordtechs.jpg] them [http://www.cobraislandtoys.com/tf/2004/gigatronboxback.jpg], I don't see anything that ''contradicts'' the other with the exception of Overlord having Energon mini figures and Gigatron being a Powermaster. On the other hand, maybe that's fanfic'ing it too much... man, does anyone have Andrew Frankel's address? I'm pretty sure he WROTE Gigatron's card bio and could just say what he intended the character to be. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 12:11, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I still don't understand why the Lio Convoy articles had to be changed to Leo Prime considering her's far better known as Lio Convoy, and has been a japanese character for far longer than a US character. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 19:55, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
:Because we go by English names for characters whenever they have them. --[[User:Andrusi|Andrusi]] 20:08, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
::This is the English Transformers enyclopedia. Go to Japan's if you want Japanese names. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 02:59, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
:::I should note that ironically I am in an argument with somebody on TFW2005 who insists on using japanese names, and I am arguing Hasbro's case. I just think that in this case, the predominantly japanese character should use the japanese name, since that's what everybody who has heard of or is familiar with the character knows him as. If, IF this was the case of a joint line like the UT where Hasbro concurrently released the toy with a US name, then I might agree, but they didn't, and only just gave it a name on a repaint of a small impulse-buy toy last year. Also, the idea to change Overlord to Gigatron just because of some long-forgotten LOC is foolishness and would have just made things confusing. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:09, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
::::Your Gigatron comment would've probably been more relevant months ago. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 07:27, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
:::::I hadn't joined then. But this still irks me. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 08:47, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
:Uh guys, are we forgetting this toy '''was''' sold by Hasbro Collectors as Lioconvoy (or LioConvoy).[http://web.archive.org/web/*/www.hasbrocollectors.com/product.cfm?product=4]
[[User:Evan1975|Evan1975]] 06:01, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

==Name Change: Part the Third==
It looks like IDW is going to be calling him [http://comicnewsi.com/article.php?catid=208&itemid=9850 Lio Convoy]. How will this effect what we call the character here? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 07:19, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

:If true, I'd prefer to change it back to Lio Convoy, since now his only official US characterisation has given him the original japanese name (it seems). Plus he's been a japanese character way longer. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 11:25, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

:: I agree that if he IS Lio Convoy vs. Leo Prime when the actual IDW issues come out then yes it should be changed back, since then both would be US names and and Lio would have more story/history weight. It's wait and see at this point though, when the issues come we'll know. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 11:42, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
::: Derik agrees with Zac- mostly because Leo Prime has cleared Hasbro legal... and we'd look ''exceptionally'' stupid if the issue came out and he was called Leo Prime, it's possible some copy editor just screwed up writing the promos. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:33, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

==Name Change IV: Japan is stupid==
There is no reason for it to remain Leo Prime when we've been told it's otherwise. If they change their mind when it comes to the Ascending, then it can be changed back. The character's official name in the fiction he appeared was Lio Convoy. Nothing past that matters. {{unsigned|159.134.162.193}}
:If you're referring to Furman's blog, that isn't a source of officiality (for lack of a better term) over the name on a toy's package, no matter how much you scream otherwise and call us anti-Japanese. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 11:37, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
::But the toy is not officially confirmed as being Lio Convoy. He is an autobot, not a maximal, for a start. The name of the character in the fiction he appears in, and the toys that were released, is Lio Convoy. Not to mention the Hasbro Collectors Lio Convoy, which was released in the west, as Lio Convoy. You(the Wiki people) ARE anti-japanese, as fuck, you're practically infamous for it, since other people acknowledge the original name of the character. Furman's comment only adds to it.
There is no reason for it to remain Leo Prime. {{unsigned|159.134.162.193}}
:We're "anti-japanese" in the manner that this the fucking ENGLISH WIKI. We deal with English names when possible. If "Supreme Commander" Leo Prime is not Lio Convoy, when who the fuck is he? Who is LoC Trypticon? Bumblebee? Jetfire? Fireflight? Menasor? "Maximal, not Autobot durr durr" is a retard's argument. Is ''Universe'' Optimus Primal a different character than ''Beast Wars'' Optimus Primal? ''Beast Wars'' Ravage from G1 Ravage? Original Blackarachnia from Transmetal 2 Blackarachnia from ''Universe'' Blackarachnia? Never mind that he's technically a Cybertron to begin with (which you're unsurprisingly silent on). [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 11:52, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:: Too bad Lio Convoy is a JAPANESE FUCKING CHARACTER. What you're doing is bastardising Japanese Transformers to better fit your culture. You're like the 4kids of Transfandom. And yes, Beast Wars did continue Cybertron and Destron. I don't see the issue here. He could also be called a Maximal as the J Beast wars used the Maximal/Pred symbols, so we know for certain what the english(and probably better for disambiguation) equivalent is. Maximals were also a western invention. Lio Convoy was a Japanese invention, and has never been called Lio Prime in any offical fiction.
But either way, because we know that the equivalent of a Cybertron in the Beast Era in Japan over here is a "maximal", we know the toy "should" be labeled a maximal. Cybertron Version 2. As it is, it's labeled Autobot, Cybertron Version 1, with the Autobot symbol.

::New IP-guy here, Because we all know that Universe Ratchet is the same guy as G1 Ratchet, and that Universe Defensor is the same guy as G1 Defensor. If we considered all the guys with the same paint job, and function to be the same characters, regardless of fiction, and even continuity of Origin, this Wiki would be fucked. And we still have no confirmation on the other LOC Classics, as far as the fiction is concerned they don't exist. And yes this is an English wiki, but it doesn't have to be an American one. As for your "Cybertron" Argument, the name is irrelevant, he still has a Maximal Symbol.
:::''Universe'' fiction bases itself on the multiverse. ''Classics''... does not. (Unless you'd like to argue that one-shot cameos in ''The War Within'' aren't the characters they obviously are, because we have no confirmation that they are.) Hasbro has stated that the LoC guys are the same characters. Why would they not be? What the Hell does America have to do with anything? If you are so desperately want this to be at LioConvoy, why are you not up in arms about him being referred to as a Maximal, when he never was? Why are you gnashing your teeth at one instance of "anti-Japanese bias", but not to another? [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 14:29, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
::::First of all, there's always been toy-only characters sense the dawn of Transformers, and in relation to the fiction, they simply don't exist in most cases! There's no Twintwist and Topspin running around in the G1 Cartoon always in the background, and likewise there's no Leo Prime running around in the Classics comic! He's a non entity, all we know about him is that he's a Supreme Commander of something, and also an Autobot, that's all! The fact that he's a homage to another character in another continuity is irrelevant. I'm so adement against Leo Prime because Lio Convoy was first, used more, and although both are really shitty names, Japan has an excuse, they don't speak the damn language their naming guys with! Also there's the fact that the entire club he belongs to has guys named Convoy, it's inconsistent! [[User:85.195.123.26|85.195.123.26]] 17:40, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::The only reason they don't "exist" is because you don't accept toys as valid for... some reason. Of course it's going to be inconsistent when we don't have English names for [[Big Convoy]] and some [[Great Convoy|Nobodies]]. [[Optimus Primal]] is inconsistent with the naming scheme, and the world has yet to end. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 19:31, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
:: Anti-Japanese or not, I'd vote on using the name LioConvoy because it's the name that's actually been used within the fiction, whereas the Leo Prime name has thus far only shown up on a lone Classics repaint with no bio or backstory to speak of. Plus, LioConvoy was released in North America in the late 90s, I believe alongside Shadow Panther. Sure it was, if I recall, a mail-away, but it was still a North American release. I'd say the first release should win it over the later one (much like how Jazz didn't become Meister when his Alternator toy came out). I haven't read through the entire talk page so if those arguments were already presented and voted against, well... feel free to ignore what I just said. (although I personally think the name Leo Prime sounds stupid. Makes me think of a Snapper repaint with a blue bandanna) [[User:Detour|Detour]] 12:34, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:::This is how you work with others, anonymous Netherlands guy. Instead of unilaterally changing stuff around and accusing us as being a cabal of bias, you present your case in the talk page. Detour, I don't see why the ''Classics'' toy should be irrelevant; it has a bio, albeit a short one, that calls Leo Prime a "Supreme Commander". I don't think the online store thing overrides that, since it just sold the Japanese toy (which ''is'' called LioConvoy). It's basically importing. (LioConvoy is a dumber name.) If the character is called Lio Convoy in the ''Beast Wars'' comic (''in'' the comic pages themselves, not a blog or solicitation), feel free to move it back. I'll urrgh at Furman maintaining a stupid name, but won't object. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 12:48, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:: Interrobang, that doesn't make it wrong to point out that you, and several others, are complete twats.

Most likely, if Furman is calling him LioConvoy casually, that is also the name that will appear in the actual comic. Once we have confirmation of that, the page will move back to LioConvoy with Leo Prime listed as an alternate name. 159.134.162.193, you really need to learn how to talk to other people without being a huge turd. I don't think anybody was actually objecting to the change -- once the name is official, I imagine we would all vote to move -- they were objecting to your completely counterproductive methods and reverting on principle. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 20:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

:: People need to learn to edit this Wiki without being huge turds. The same Walky-isms(anti-Jap bias, anti-fan bias) are shitted all over this place. Once people start taking this ridiculous anti-fanboy phenomenon seriously, then I'll treat people with a little more respect. Every time I try to edit an article to balance the poking fun so it's at both sides(fans and Hasbro, or fans and anti-fans, I don't touch the original content, just add to it), it gets almost immediately reverted. As long as this continues, I see no reason to respect people who do not respect attempts at showing both sides of the coin. Dutch Anon may be more to your liking than Irish Anon, but it doesn't mean that either way is any more right. You only like him better because he's not challenging you and pointing out your flaws. That doesn't make his way more right. What you're doing on this wiki is very, very wrong.
::: Actually, I just realised that it was a registered member you were complimenting while flipping off Dutch Anon. What the hell? I can understand how you might think I'm a bit of a dick, but what has Dutch Anon done that's in the slightest bit aggressive? This just proves to me that some of you really can't deal with being challenged, at all(I already know David Willis can't).

:::If you guys hate the topic title so much why don't you just click on the move button? --[[User:Oboro maru|Oboro maru]] 20:28, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

::: Because some anti-Japheads keep reverting it and pathetically think they have some kind of moral high-ground for being incorrect, as long as that instance of being incorrect is according to some bizarre set of rules.

::::Because, as said above, the official name wont be established until the first issue of the new BW mini is out. Once that happens it'll be moved if needed. Got it? :) [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 01:57, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
::::: But there's no basis for him to be called Leo Prime to begin with. Why can't it be moved now?

:::::Hasbro should have just called it Leo/Lio Primal, then it would have worked for BW's naming conventions, worked with the theme of Lio Convoy's original name and sort of makes sense in english. Yeah, I know they wanted to cash in on kids buying things with 'Prime' on them. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 15:55, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

:::::: Lio Convoy is a fine name as it means they can introduce the Convoy council from Japanese Beast Wars. Optimus Primal took his name as a homage, maybe he'll originally have been something Convoy as well. Sometimes names have a ring to them all on their own. I'm GLAD they're using Lio Convoy because of the sheer lack of respect directed at the Japanese material, even that their own flagship character gets bastardised by a bunch of yanks. We know Takara are no better than Hasbro. We get it now. That doesn't mean you go pissing on everything Takara-not-Hasbro is involved with just to make a point.{{unsigned|193.120.116.179|23:31, 14 August 2007}}
:::::::Nobody's pissing on anything. It's more that the term "Convoy" has no real meaning outside Japanese continuity, thus introducing it to American continuity just muddies the waters with no real payoff beyond fellating fans of the Japanese continuity. As for "their own flagship character getting bastardized by a bunch of Yanks" you're aware that Optimus Prime in general bears no relation to the "character" of [[Diaclone]] Battle Convoy? Most of the characters we've come to know did not exist prior to Marvel's treatment during the development of the Transformers brand. --[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]] 23:41, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::::: The Diaclone "characters" weren't even characters at all but piloted mechs. They were turned into something different, something decent, with some care to it. It's not the same thing as purposely setting out to strip elements of another culture from their product. It's laughable to compare creative process to doing something that's probably at least, in part, to piss off Takara fanboys.<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Lio Convoy (BW)

2007-08-14T23:38:39Z

193.120.116.179: /* Name Change IV: Japan is stupid */

==Name Change==

We should probably use a different image for Lio's main one. Namely, one of his first toy-body in normal colors. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:33, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

*Yeah, I never really intended to use that as the main one, just as a place-holder since Google wasn't finding me anything better. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 20:34, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

::Can we move this to [[Leo Prime]] now? Please? [[User:Singularity|Singularity]] 14:46, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
:::Oh, Lord yes! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:14, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::: Have we seen the back of his card to be sure Leo Prime is definately the same character? I mean clearly the deco is inspired by him, I'm just wondering if we've seen the bio. (Even if we havn't, it probably WILL be him, I know, but we wont be 100% sure till we see.)

::::It's probably in the history now and I can't change it, but there was an angry and non-researched well rant here by me a while ago. I've changed my mind a little. Blog entry explains all.

:::::We can't check your blog if we don't know who you are. Please, register a username and sign your posts with four tildes - and welcome to Teletraan I. - [[User:RolonBolon|RolonBolon]] 07:06, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

::::::It's Onslaught Six. I have an account here and I know about the tildes. I just don't feel like logging in and stuff.

:::::::Well, if you don't care enough to do that, why should we care about what you have to say? - [[User:RolonBolon|RolonBolon]] 21:10, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

==Personality==

Did Leo Prime have any actual personality in the Japanese stuff to record as his profile? As of right now it's mostly kinda a recounting of BW2 continuity specific story material rather than a true character profile. We should definately have a real profile whenever the IDW BW Guide comes out (soooon peeaaasse) but I was wondering if there was anything we could say about him personality wise as of now? What little I remember is pretty much "generic leader." [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 02:00, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

He's a Japanese leader. That means he has zero personality. Honestly, he was dull as dishwater in BWII. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 03:12, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

:I dunno, doesn't Leiconvoy party hard? Is eem to recall an episodew where he frank a lot of beer. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:25, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Wow, franking beer *is* pretty unique behavior. (I don't usually point out spelling, but I just find this one really funny.) It wouldn't surprise me too much if he was a partier, Japan seems to like the idea of TFs getting drunk. Although I would think that'd be more Big Convoys thing, off hand. [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 12:30, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

==Name Change: Part Deux==

Question: Now that we know that the Classic "Legends" figures have no character/bio info on the cards (we DO know that right, I'm not imagining it?) don't we have to question if "Leo Prime" is actually the same characters as "Lio Convoy"? I mean, *YES* his deco is definately a homage, but LOTS of Universe toys feature homage-decos and the *exact* same names as existing G1 characters, and we've consistantly and purposely refused to treat them as being new versions of the existing robots here, because there's no official proof/bio/characterization one way or the other. Leo Prime's case is pretty much exactly the same thing isn't it (or possibly even weaker, since in those cases even the names matched perfectly)? Certianly a homage, but with nothing official to confirm it, there's no way to really say he's the same guy from BW2. Not officially. Am I missing something? [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 12:16, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

*I agree. The decision to change the name seemed premature to me. What is the basis for saying they are one in the same? --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 14:11, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

*They do have bios, albeit short ones. Leo Prime's has "Cybertronian Supreme Commander" in it somewhere. Also, Classics isn't comparable to Universe because it is stated to be a continuation of G1 and doesn't involve multiple universe-hopping. We don't have [[Megatron (Classics)]] or [[Trypticon (Classics)]] pages. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 14:57, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
: What Int said. Though it will all come down to what they call him in IDW's BW profile book, I imagine. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:05, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Spinning offa this, is there now more solid precedent for renaming Overlord as Gigatron? HOC is at least as valid as LOC, if anything it's actually more detailed. I understand some people are reluctant due to Dreamwave giving their character of Gigatron a completely different backstory than the fictional Overlord ever could have had--however, no material was ever canonically published that linked Overlord to Gigatron. Just interviews with Patyk/McDonaugh about where they'd like to take the character. It strikes me as no more consequential than 'The Greater Ape'. So why not rename?
:The European (thus, UK) release is named "Overlord". [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 03:10, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

:::I think we're waiting on Overlord until we get maybe another universe for him...? there's enough of a case to say ovelord = Gigatron IMO, but they're treated '''so''' differently...-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:46, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
::::Again, though, there are TONS of instances of characters who are portrayed wildly different in different continuities. Take Marvel Grimlock vs. Cartoon Grimlock. Or Shockwave. Or Blaster. Hell, in Dreamwave's continuity, Scourge and Cyclonus are completely different robots rather than being reformatted from the seekers or the Insecticons. Should they get different pages, too? It's quite clear that Overlord and Gigatron are meant to be the same character, even if they were portrayed differently in different continuities. The same holds true for Leo Prime and Lio Convoy - [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 08:00, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

::::Hey, you're preaching to the converted here.. I think part of the problem is- what do you call him? he got an einglish-language release as overlord. if he was renamed Gigatron... we don''t usually 'respect' renames on the Wiki. (Silverstreak, et al.) Except- in Dreamwave continuity is HIS Gigatron.. but BY FAR he's best RECOGNIZED as Overlord. And, you know, actually saw release under that name. It's a pickle. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 08:22, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
:::::His American release was Gigatron. Isn't that pretty much the standard we're using? - [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 08:52, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

::::::*shrug* I will not oppose moving the article to Gigatron. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 09:14, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

:::In my opinion, if we were to consider J-Overlord and Gigatron the same character, then the same would apply to Lightfoot and Getaway, or Road King and Slapdash, etc. They're humans in robot suits, which their Western counterparts are not. Gigatron is the Hosehead to Overlord's Cab. Quite frankly, I advcoate making Gigatron as separate character article, just as the other Powermasters have separate articles from THEIR Godmaster counterparts, similar tech specs be damned. But, yeah, I'm probably in the minority on that. The problem, I suppose, comes with figuring out where Eurolord goes. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 10:57, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::No, I'm down with that. I figure Masterforce Overlord should have his own separate article since he's a very distinctly separate... organism, then Eurolord/Gigatron a separate article. As for which name he'd go under, I vote Gigatron, since that's how we've got all the other Euro transplants from G2. (And is similar techs were all that, Charger would be Slag, and BM Mirage Skywarp.) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:49, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

::::At this time and on little sleep, I would guess that Powermaster Gigatron and Eurolord fall under the same category as, say, G2 Laser Rod Jolt and G2 Illuminator Hotrod - essentially the same character with some details changed to suit the market. Saying that, I realize that Gigatron and Overlord have entirely different bios, but comparing [http://www.cobraislandtoys.com/tf/1988/overlordtechs.jpg] them [http://www.cobraislandtoys.com/tf/2004/gigatronboxback.jpg], I don't see anything that ''contradicts'' the other with the exception of Overlord having Energon mini figures and Gigatron being a Powermaster. On the other hand, maybe that's fanfic'ing it too much... man, does anyone have Andrew Frankel's address? I'm pretty sure he WROTE Gigatron's card bio and could just say what he intended the character to be. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 12:11, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I still don't understand why the Lio Convoy articles had to be changed to Leo Prime considering her's far better known as Lio Convoy, and has been a japanese character for far longer than a US character. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 19:55, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
:Because we go by English names for characters whenever they have them. --[[User:Andrusi|Andrusi]] 20:08, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
::This is the English Transformers enyclopedia. Go to Japan's if you want Japanese names. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 02:59, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
:::I should note that ironically I am in an argument with somebody on TFW2005 who insists on using japanese names, and I am arguing Hasbro's case. I just think that in this case, the predominantly japanese character should use the japanese name, since that's what everybody who has heard of or is familiar with the character knows him as. If, IF this was the case of a joint line like the UT where Hasbro concurrently released the toy with a US name, then I might agree, but they didn't, and only just gave it a name on a repaint of a small impulse-buy toy last year. Also, the idea to change Overlord to Gigatron just because of some long-forgotten LOC is foolishness and would have just made things confusing. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:09, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
::::Your Gigatron comment would've probably been more relevant months ago. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 07:27, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
:::::I hadn't joined then. But this still irks me. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 08:47, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
:Uh guys, are we forgetting this toy '''was''' sold by Hasbro Collectors as Lioconvoy (or LioConvoy).[http://web.archive.org/web/*/www.hasbrocollectors.com/product.cfm?product=4]
[[User:Evan1975|Evan1975]] 06:01, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

==Name Change: Part the Third==
It looks like IDW is going to be calling him [http://comicnewsi.com/article.php?catid=208&itemid=9850 Lio Convoy]. How will this effect what we call the character here? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 07:19, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

:If true, I'd prefer to change it back to Lio Convoy, since now his only official US characterisation has given him the original japanese name (it seems). Plus he's been a japanese character way longer. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 11:25, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

:: I agree that if he IS Lio Convoy vs. Leo Prime when the actual IDW issues come out then yes it should be changed back, since then both would be US names and and Lio would have more story/history weight. It's wait and see at this point though, when the issues come we'll know. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 11:42, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
::: Derik agrees with Zac- mostly because Leo Prime has cleared Hasbro legal... and we'd look ''exceptionally'' stupid if the issue came out and he was called Leo Prime, it's possible some copy editor just screwed up writing the promos. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:33, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

==Name Change IV: Japan is stupid==
There is no reason for it to remain Leo Prime when we've been told it's otherwise. If they change their mind when it comes to the Ascending, then it can be changed back. The character's official name in the fiction he appeared was Lio Convoy. Nothing past that matters. {{unsigned|159.134.162.193}}
:If you're referring to Furman's blog, that isn't a source of officiality (for lack of a better term) over the name on a toy's package, no matter how much you scream otherwise and call us anti-Japanese. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 11:37, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
::But the toy is not officially confirmed as being Lio Convoy. He is an autobot, not a maximal, for a start. The name of the character in the fiction he appears in, and the toys that were released, is Lio Convoy. Not to mention the Hasbro Collectors Lio Convoy, which was released in the west, as Lio Convoy. You(the Wiki people) ARE anti-japanese, as fuck, you're practically infamous for it, since other people acknowledge the original name of the character. Furman's comment only adds to it.
There is no reason for it to remain Leo Prime. {{unsigned|159.134.162.193}}
:We're "anti-japanese" in the manner that this the fucking ENGLISH WIKI. We deal with English names when possible. If "Supreme Commander" Leo Prime is not Lio Convoy, when who the fuck is he? Who is LoC Trypticon? Bumblebee? Jetfire? Fireflight? Menasor? "Maximal, not Autobot durr durr" is a retard's argument. Is ''Universe'' Optimus Primal a different character than ''Beast Wars'' Optimus Primal? ''Beast Wars'' Ravage from G1 Ravage? Original Blackarachnia from Transmetal 2 Blackarachnia from ''Universe'' Blackarachnia? Never mind that he's technically a Cybertron to begin with (which you're unsurprisingly silent on). [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 11:52, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:: Too bad Lio Convoy is a JAPANESE FUCKING CHARACTER. What you're doing is bastardising Japanese Transformers to better fit your culture. You're like the 4kids of Transfandom. And yes, Beast Wars did continue Cybertron and Destron. I don't see the issue here. He could also be called a Maximal as the J Beast wars used the Maximal/Pred symbols, so we know for certain what the english(and probably better for disambiguation) equivalent is. Maximals were also a western invention. Lio Convoy was a Japanese invention, and has never been called Lio Prime in any offical fiction.
But either way, because we know that the equivalent of a Cybertron in the Beast Era in Japan over here is a "maximal", we know the toy "should" be labeled a maximal. Cybertron Version 2. As it is, it's labeled Autobot, Cybertron Version 1, with the Autobot symbol.

::New IP-guy here, Because we all know that Universe Ratchet is the same guy as G1 Ratchet, and that Universe Defensor is the same guy as G1 Defensor. If we considered all the guys with the same paint job, and function to be the same characters, regardless of fiction, and even continuity of Origin, this Wiki would be fucked. And we still have no confirmation on the other LOC Classics, as far as the fiction is concerned they don't exist. And yes this is an English wiki, but it doesn't have to be an American one. As for your "Cybertron" Argument, the name is irrelevant, he still has a Maximal Symbol.
:::''Universe'' fiction bases itself on the multiverse. ''Classics''... does not. (Unless you'd like to argue that one-shot cameos in ''The War Within'' aren't the characters they obviously are, because we have no confirmation that they are.) Hasbro has stated that the LoC guys are the same characters. Why would they not be? What the Hell does America have to do with anything? If you are so desperately want this to be at LioConvoy, why are you not up in arms about him being referred to as a Maximal, when he never was? Why are you gnashing your teeth at one instance of "anti-Japanese bias", but not to another? [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 14:29, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
::::First of all, there's always been toy-only characters sense the dawn of Transformers, and in relation to the fiction, they simply don't exist in most cases! There's no Twintwist and Topspin running around in the G1 Cartoon always in the background, and likewise there's no Leo Prime running around in the Classics comic! He's a non entity, all we know about him is that he's a Supreme Commander of something, and also an Autobot, that's all! The fact that he's a homage to another character in another continuity is irrelevant. I'm so adement against Leo Prime because Lio Convoy was first, used more, and although both are really shitty names, Japan has an excuse, they don't speak the damn language their naming guys with! Also there's the fact that the entire club he belongs to has guys named Convoy, it's inconsistent! [[User:85.195.123.26|85.195.123.26]] 17:40, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::The only reason they don't "exist" is because you don't accept toys as valid for... some reason. Of course it's going to be inconsistent when we don't have English names for [[Big Convoy]] and some [[Great Convoy|Nobodies]]. [[Optimus Primal]] is inconsistent with the naming scheme, and the world has yet to end. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 19:31, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
:: Anti-Japanese or not, I'd vote on using the name LioConvoy because it's the name that's actually been used within the fiction, whereas the Leo Prime name has thus far only shown up on a lone Classics repaint with no bio or backstory to speak of. Plus, LioConvoy was released in North America in the late 90s, I believe alongside Shadow Panther. Sure it was, if I recall, a mail-away, but it was still a North American release. I'd say the first release should win it over the later one (much like how Jazz didn't become Meister when his Alternator toy came out). I haven't read through the entire talk page so if those arguments were already presented and voted against, well... feel free to ignore what I just said. (although I personally think the name Leo Prime sounds stupid. Makes me think of a Snapper repaint with a blue bandanna) [[User:Detour|Detour]] 12:34, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:::This is how you work with others, anonymous Netherlands guy. Instead of unilaterally changing stuff around and accusing us as being a cabal of bias, you present your case in the talk page. Detour, I don't see why the ''Classics'' toy should be irrelevant; it has a bio, albeit a short one, that calls Leo Prime a "Supreme Commander". I don't think the online store thing overrides that, since it just sold the Japanese toy (which ''is'' called LioConvoy). It's basically importing. (LioConvoy is a dumber name.) If the character is called Lio Convoy in the ''Beast Wars'' comic (''in'' the comic pages themselves, not a blog or solicitation), feel free to move it back. I'll urrgh at Furman maintaining a stupid name, but won't object. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 12:48, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:: Interrobang, that doesn't make it wrong to point out that you, and several others, are complete twats.

Most likely, if Furman is calling him LioConvoy casually, that is also the name that will appear in the actual comic. Once we have confirmation of that, the page will move back to LioConvoy with Leo Prime listed as an alternate name. 159.134.162.193, you really need to learn how to talk to other people without being a huge turd. I don't think anybody was actually objecting to the change -- once the name is official, I imagine we would all vote to move -- they were objecting to your completely counterproductive methods and reverting on principle. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 20:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

:: People need to learn to edit this Wiki without being huge turds. The same Walky-isms(anti-Jap bias, anti-fan bias) are shitted all over this place. Once people start taking this ridiculous anti-fanboy phenomenon seriously, then I'll treat people with a little more respect. Every time I try to edit an article to balance the poking fun so it's at both sides(fans and Hasbro, or fans and anti-fans, I don't touch the original content, just add to it), it gets almost immediately reverted. As long as this continues, I see no reason to respect people who do not respect attempts at showing both sides of the coin. Dutch Anon may be more to your liking than Irish Anon, but it doesn't mean that either way is any more right. You only like him better because he's not challenging you and pointing out your flaws. That doesn't make his way more right. What you're doing on this wiki is very, very wrong.

:::If you guys hate the topic title so much why don't you just click on the move button? --[[User:Oboro maru|Oboro maru]] 20:28, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

::: Because some anti-Japheads keep reverting it and pathetically think they have some kind of moral high-ground for being incorrect, as long as that instance of being incorrect is according to some bizarre set of rules.

::::Because, as said above, the official name wont be established until the first issue of the new BW mini is out. Once that happens it'll be moved if needed. Got it? :) [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 01:57, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
::::: But there's no basis for him to be called Leo Prime to begin with. Why can't it be moved now?

:::::Hasbro should have just called it Leo/Lio Primal, then it would have worked for BW's naming conventions, worked with the theme of Lio Convoy's original name and sort of makes sense in english. Yeah, I know they wanted to cash in on kids buying things with 'Prime' on them. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 15:55, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

:::::: Lio Convoy is a fine name as it means they can introduce the Convoy council from Japanese Beast Wars. Optimus Primal took his name as a homage, maybe he'll originally have been something Convoy as well. Sometimes names have a ring to them all on their own. I'm GLAD they're using Lio Convoy because of the sheer lack of respect directed at the Japanese material, even that their own flagship character gets bastardised by a bunch of yanks. We know Takara are no better than Hasbro. We get it now. That doesn't mean you go pissing on everything Takara-not-Hasbro is involved with just to make a point.<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Lio Convoy (BW)

2007-08-14T23:31:17Z

193.120.116.179: /* Name Change IV: Japan is stupid */

==Name Change==

We should probably use a different image for Lio's main one. Namely, one of his first toy-body in normal colors. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:33, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

*Yeah, I never really intended to use that as the main one, just as a place-holder since Google wasn't finding me anything better. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 20:34, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

::Can we move this to [[Leo Prime]] now? Please? [[User:Singularity|Singularity]] 14:46, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
:::Oh, Lord yes! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:14, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::: Have we seen the back of his card to be sure Leo Prime is definately the same character? I mean clearly the deco is inspired by him, I'm just wondering if we've seen the bio. (Even if we havn't, it probably WILL be him, I know, but we wont be 100% sure till we see.)

::::It's probably in the history now and I can't change it, but there was an angry and non-researched well rant here by me a while ago. I've changed my mind a little. Blog entry explains all.

:::::We can't check your blog if we don't know who you are. Please, register a username and sign your posts with four tildes - and welcome to Teletraan I. - [[User:RolonBolon|RolonBolon]] 07:06, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

::::::It's Onslaught Six. I have an account here and I know about the tildes. I just don't feel like logging in and stuff.

:::::::Well, if you don't care enough to do that, why should we care about what you have to say? - [[User:RolonBolon|RolonBolon]] 21:10, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

==Personality==

Did Leo Prime have any actual personality in the Japanese stuff to record as his profile? As of right now it's mostly kinda a recounting of BW2 continuity specific story material rather than a true character profile. We should definately have a real profile whenever the IDW BW Guide comes out (soooon peeaaasse) but I was wondering if there was anything we could say about him personality wise as of now? What little I remember is pretty much "generic leader." [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 02:00, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

He's a Japanese leader. That means he has zero personality. Honestly, he was dull as dishwater in BWII. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 03:12, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

:I dunno, doesn't Leiconvoy party hard? Is eem to recall an episodew where he frank a lot of beer. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:25, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Wow, franking beer *is* pretty unique behavior. (I don't usually point out spelling, but I just find this one really funny.) It wouldn't surprise me too much if he was a partier, Japan seems to like the idea of TFs getting drunk. Although I would think that'd be more Big Convoys thing, off hand. [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 12:30, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

==Name Change: Part Deux==

Question: Now that we know that the Classic "Legends" figures have no character/bio info on the cards (we DO know that right, I'm not imagining it?) don't we have to question if "Leo Prime" is actually the same characters as "Lio Convoy"? I mean, *YES* his deco is definately a homage, but LOTS of Universe toys feature homage-decos and the *exact* same names as existing G1 characters, and we've consistantly and purposely refused to treat them as being new versions of the existing robots here, because there's no official proof/bio/characterization one way or the other. Leo Prime's case is pretty much exactly the same thing isn't it (or possibly even weaker, since in those cases even the names matched perfectly)? Certianly a homage, but with nothing official to confirm it, there's no way to really say he's the same guy from BW2. Not officially. Am I missing something? [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 12:16, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

*I agree. The decision to change the name seemed premature to me. What is the basis for saying they are one in the same? --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 14:11, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

*They do have bios, albeit short ones. Leo Prime's has "Cybertronian Supreme Commander" in it somewhere. Also, Classics isn't comparable to Universe because it is stated to be a continuation of G1 and doesn't involve multiple universe-hopping. We don't have [[Megatron (Classics)]] or [[Trypticon (Classics)]] pages. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 14:57, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
: What Int said. Though it will all come down to what they call him in IDW's BW profile book, I imagine. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:05, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Spinning offa this, is there now more solid precedent for renaming Overlord as Gigatron? HOC is at least as valid as LOC, if anything it's actually more detailed. I understand some people are reluctant due to Dreamwave giving their character of Gigatron a completely different backstory than the fictional Overlord ever could have had--however, no material was ever canonically published that linked Overlord to Gigatron. Just interviews with Patyk/McDonaugh about where they'd like to take the character. It strikes me as no more consequential than 'The Greater Ape'. So why not rename?
:The European (thus, UK) release is named "Overlord". [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 03:10, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

:::I think we're waiting on Overlord until we get maybe another universe for him...? there's enough of a case to say ovelord = Gigatron IMO, but they're treated '''so''' differently...-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:46, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
::::Again, though, there are TONS of instances of characters who are portrayed wildly different in different continuities. Take Marvel Grimlock vs. Cartoon Grimlock. Or Shockwave. Or Blaster. Hell, in Dreamwave's continuity, Scourge and Cyclonus are completely different robots rather than being reformatted from the seekers or the Insecticons. Should they get different pages, too? It's quite clear that Overlord and Gigatron are meant to be the same character, even if they were portrayed differently in different continuities. The same holds true for Leo Prime and Lio Convoy - [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 08:00, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

::::Hey, you're preaching to the converted here.. I think part of the problem is- what do you call him? he got an einglish-language release as overlord. if he was renamed Gigatron... we don''t usually 'respect' renames on the Wiki. (Silverstreak, et al.) Except- in Dreamwave continuity is HIS Gigatron.. but BY FAR he's best RECOGNIZED as Overlord. And, you know, actually saw release under that name. It's a pickle. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 08:22, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
:::::His American release was Gigatron. Isn't that pretty much the standard we're using? - [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 08:52, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

::::::*shrug* I will not oppose moving the article to Gigatron. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 09:14, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

:::In my opinion, if we were to consider J-Overlord and Gigatron the same character, then the same would apply to Lightfoot and Getaway, or Road King and Slapdash, etc. They're humans in robot suits, which their Western counterparts are not. Gigatron is the Hosehead to Overlord's Cab. Quite frankly, I advcoate making Gigatron as separate character article, just as the other Powermasters have separate articles from THEIR Godmaster counterparts, similar tech specs be damned. But, yeah, I'm probably in the minority on that. The problem, I suppose, comes with figuring out where Eurolord goes. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 10:57, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::No, I'm down with that. I figure Masterforce Overlord should have his own separate article since he's a very distinctly separate... organism, then Eurolord/Gigatron a separate article. As for which name he'd go under, I vote Gigatron, since that's how we've got all the other Euro transplants from G2. (And is similar techs were all that, Charger would be Slag, and BM Mirage Skywarp.) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:49, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

::::At this time and on little sleep, I would guess that Powermaster Gigatron and Eurolord fall under the same category as, say, G2 Laser Rod Jolt and G2 Illuminator Hotrod - essentially the same character with some details changed to suit the market. Saying that, I realize that Gigatron and Overlord have entirely different bios, but comparing [http://www.cobraislandtoys.com/tf/1988/overlordtechs.jpg] them [http://www.cobraislandtoys.com/tf/2004/gigatronboxback.jpg], I don't see anything that ''contradicts'' the other with the exception of Overlord having Energon mini figures and Gigatron being a Powermaster. On the other hand, maybe that's fanfic'ing it too much... man, does anyone have Andrew Frankel's address? I'm pretty sure he WROTE Gigatron's card bio and could just say what he intended the character to be. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 12:11, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I still don't understand why the Lio Convoy articles had to be changed to Leo Prime considering her's far better known as Lio Convoy, and has been a japanese character for far longer than a US character. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 19:55, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
:Because we go by English names for characters whenever they have them. --[[User:Andrusi|Andrusi]] 20:08, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
::This is the English Transformers enyclopedia. Go to Japan's if you want Japanese names. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 02:59, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
:::I should note that ironically I am in an argument with somebody on TFW2005 who insists on using japanese names, and I am arguing Hasbro's case. I just think that in this case, the predominantly japanese character should use the japanese name, since that's what everybody who has heard of or is familiar with the character knows him as. If, IF this was the case of a joint line like the UT where Hasbro concurrently released the toy with a US name, then I might agree, but they didn't, and only just gave it a name on a repaint of a small impulse-buy toy last year. Also, the idea to change Overlord to Gigatron just because of some long-forgotten LOC is foolishness and would have just made things confusing. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:09, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
::::Your Gigatron comment would've probably been more relevant months ago. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 07:27, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
:::::I hadn't joined then. But this still irks me. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 08:47, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
:Uh guys, are we forgetting this toy '''was''' sold by Hasbro Collectors as Lioconvoy (or LioConvoy).[http://web.archive.org/web/*/www.hasbrocollectors.com/product.cfm?product=4]
[[User:Evan1975|Evan1975]] 06:01, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

==Name Change: Part the Third==
It looks like IDW is going to be calling him [http://comicnewsi.com/article.php?catid=208&itemid=9850 Lio Convoy]. How will this effect what we call the character here? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 07:19, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

:If true, I'd prefer to change it back to Lio Convoy, since now his only official US characterisation has given him the original japanese name (it seems). Plus he's been a japanese character way longer. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 11:25, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

:: I agree that if he IS Lio Convoy vs. Leo Prime when the actual IDW issues come out then yes it should be changed back, since then both would be US names and and Lio would have more story/history weight. It's wait and see at this point though, when the issues come we'll know. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 11:42, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
::: Derik agrees with Zac- mostly because Leo Prime has cleared Hasbro legal... and we'd look ''exceptionally'' stupid if the issue came out and he was called Leo Prime, it's possible some copy editor just screwed up writing the promos. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:33, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

==Name Change IV: Japan is stupid==
There is no reason for it to remain Leo Prime when we've been told it's otherwise. If they change their mind when it comes to the Ascending, then it can be changed back. The character's official name in the fiction he appeared was Lio Convoy. Nothing past that matters. {{unsigned|159.134.162.193}}
:If you're referring to Furman's blog, that isn't a source of officiality (for lack of a better term) over the name on a toy's package, no matter how much you scream otherwise and call us anti-Japanese. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 11:37, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
::But the toy is not officially confirmed as being Lio Convoy. He is an autobot, not a maximal, for a start. The name of the character in the fiction he appears in, and the toys that were released, is Lio Convoy. Not to mention the Hasbro Collectors Lio Convoy, which was released in the west, as Lio Convoy. You(the Wiki people) ARE anti-japanese, as fuck, you're practically infamous for it, since other people acknowledge the original name of the character. Furman's comment only adds to it.
There is no reason for it to remain Leo Prime. {{unsigned|159.134.162.193}}
:We're "anti-japanese" in the manner that this the fucking ENGLISH WIKI. We deal with English names when possible. If "Supreme Commander" Leo Prime is not Lio Convoy, when who the fuck is he? Who is LoC Trypticon? Bumblebee? Jetfire? Fireflight? Menasor? "Maximal, not Autobot durr durr" is a retard's argument. Is ''Universe'' Optimus Primal a different character than ''Beast Wars'' Optimus Primal? ''Beast Wars'' Ravage from G1 Ravage? Original Blackarachnia from Transmetal 2 Blackarachnia from ''Universe'' Blackarachnia? Never mind that he's technically a Cybertron to begin with (which you're unsurprisingly silent on). [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 11:52, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
::New IP-guy here, Because we all know that Universe Ratchet is the same guy as G1 Ratchet, and that Universe Defensor is the same guy as G1 Defensor. If we considered all the guys with the same paint job, and function to be the same characters, regardless of fiction, and even continuity of Origin, this Wiki would be fucked. And we still have no confirmation on the other LOC Classics, as far as the fiction is concerned they don't exist. And yes this is an English wiki, but it doesn't have to be an American one. As for your "Cybertron" Argument, the name is irrelevant, he still has a Maximal Symbol.
:::''Universe'' fiction bases itself on the multiverse. ''Classics''... does not. (Unless you'd like to argue that one-shot cameos in ''The War Within'' aren't the characters they obviously are, because we have no confirmation that they are.) Hasbro has stated that the LoC guys are the same characters. Why would they not be? What the Hell does America have to do with anything? If you are so desperately want this to be at LioConvoy, why are you not up in arms about him being referred to as a Maximal, when he never was? Why are you gnashing your teeth at one instance of "anti-Japanese bias", but not to another? [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 14:29, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
::::First of all, there's always been toy-only characters sense the dawn of Transformers, and in relation to the fiction, they simply don't exist in most cases! There's no Twintwist and Topspin running around in the G1 Cartoon always in the background, and likewise there's no Leo Prime running around in the Classics comic! He's a non entity, all we know about him is that he's a Supreme Commander of something, and also an Autobot, that's all! The fact that he's a homage to another character in another continuity is irrelevant. I'm so adement against Leo Prime because Lio Convoy was first, used more, and although both are really shitty names, Japan has an excuse, they don't speak the damn language their naming guys with! Also there's the fact that the entire club he belongs to has guys named Convoy, it's inconsistent! [[User:85.195.123.26|85.195.123.26]] 17:40, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::The only reason they don't "exist" is because you don't accept toys as valid for... some reason. Of course it's going to be inconsistent when we don't have English names for [[Big Convoy]] and some [[Great Convoy|Nobodies]]. [[Optimus Primal]] is inconsistent with the naming scheme, and the world has yet to end. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 19:31, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
:: Anti-Japanese or not, I'd vote on using the name LioConvoy because it's the name that's actually been used within the fiction, whereas the Leo Prime name has thus far only shown up on a lone Classics repaint with no bio or backstory to speak of. Plus, LioConvoy was released in North America in the late 90s, I believe alongside Shadow Panther. Sure it was, if I recall, a mail-away, but it was still a North American release. I'd say the first release should win it over the later one (much like how Jazz didn't become Meister when his Alternator toy came out). I haven't read through the entire talk page so if those arguments were already presented and voted against, well... feel free to ignore what I just said. (although I personally think the name Leo Prime sounds stupid. Makes me think of a Snapper repaint with a blue bandanna) [[User:Detour|Detour]] 12:34, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:::This is how you work with others, anonymous Netherlands guy. Instead of unilaterally changing stuff around and accusing us as being a cabal of bias, you present your case in the talk page. Detour, I don't see why the ''Classics'' toy should be irrelevant; it has a bio, albeit a short one, that calls Leo Prime a "Supreme Commander". I don't think the online store thing overrides that, since it just sold the Japanese toy (which ''is'' called LioConvoy). It's basically importing. (LioConvoy is a dumber name.) If the character is called Lio Convoy in the ''Beast Wars'' comic (''in'' the comic pages themselves, not a blog or solicitation), feel free to move it back. I'll urrgh at Furman maintaining a stupid name, but won't object. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 12:48, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:: Interrobang, that doesn't make it wrong to point out that you, and several others, are complete twats.

Most likely, if Furman is calling him LioConvoy casually, that is also the name that will appear in the actual comic. Once we have confirmation of that, the page will move back to LioConvoy with Leo Prime listed as an alternate name. 159.134.162.193, you really need to learn how to talk to other people without being a huge turd. I don't think anybody was actually objecting to the change -- once the name is official, I imagine we would all vote to move -- they were objecting to your completely counterproductive methods and reverting on principle. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 20:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

:: People need to learn to edit this Wiki without being huge turds. The same Walky-isms(anti-Jap bias, anti-fan bias) are shitted all over this place. Once people start taking this ridiculous anti-fanboy phenomenon seriously, then I'll treat people with a little more respect. Every time I try to edit an article to balance the poking fun so it's at both sides(fans and Hasbro, or fans and anti-fans, I don't touch the original content, just add to it), it gets almost immediately reverted. As long as this continues, I see no reason to respect people who do not respect attempts at showing both sides of the coin. Dutch Anon may be more to your liking than Irish Anon, but it doesn't mean that either way is any more right. You only like him better because he's not challenging you and pointing out your flaws. That doesn't make his way more right. What you're doing on this wiki is very, very wrong.

:::If you guys hate the topic title so much why don't you just click on the move button? --[[User:Oboro maru|Oboro maru]] 20:28, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

::: Because some anti-Japheads keep reverting it and pathetically think they have some kind of moral high-ground for being incorrect, as long as that instance of being incorrect is according to some bizarre set of rules.

::::Because, as said above, the official name wont be established until the first issue of the new BW mini is out. Once that happens it'll be moved if needed. Got it? :) [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 01:57, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
::::: But there's no basis for him to be called Leo Prime to begin with. Why can't it be moved now?

:::::Hasbro should have just called it Leo/Lio Primal, then it would have worked for BW's naming conventions, worked with the theme of Lio Convoy's original name and sort of makes sense in english. Yeah, I know they wanted to cash in on kids buying things with 'Prime' on them. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 15:55, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

:::::: Lio Convoy is a fine name as it means they can introduce the Convoy council from Japanese Beast Wars. Optimus Primal took his name as a homage, maybe he'll originally have been something Convoy as well. Sometimes names have a ring to them all on their own. I'm GLAD they're using Lio Convoy because of the sheer lack of respect directed at the Japanese material, even that their own flagship character gets bastardised by a bunch of yanks. We know Takara are no better than Hasbro. We get it now. That doesn't mean you go pissing on everything Takara-not-Hasbro is involved with just to make a point.<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Lio Convoy (BW)

2007-08-14T23:27:01Z

193.120.116.179: /* Name Change IV: Japan is stupid */

==Name Change==

We should probably use a different image for Lio's main one. Namely, one of his first toy-body in normal colors. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:33, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

*Yeah, I never really intended to use that as the main one, just as a place-holder since Google wasn't finding me anything better. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 20:34, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

::Can we move this to [[Leo Prime]] now? Please? [[User:Singularity|Singularity]] 14:46, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
:::Oh, Lord yes! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:14, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::: Have we seen the back of his card to be sure Leo Prime is definately the same character? I mean clearly the deco is inspired by him, I'm just wondering if we've seen the bio. (Even if we havn't, it probably WILL be him, I know, but we wont be 100% sure till we see.)

::::It's probably in the history now and I can't change it, but there was an angry and non-researched well rant here by me a while ago. I've changed my mind a little. Blog entry explains all.

:::::We can't check your blog if we don't know who you are. Please, register a username and sign your posts with four tildes - and welcome to Teletraan I. - [[User:RolonBolon|RolonBolon]] 07:06, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

::::::It's Onslaught Six. I have an account here and I know about the tildes. I just don't feel like logging in and stuff.

:::::::Well, if you don't care enough to do that, why should we care about what you have to say? - [[User:RolonBolon|RolonBolon]] 21:10, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

==Personality==

Did Leo Prime have any actual personality in the Japanese stuff to record as his profile? As of right now it's mostly kinda a recounting of BW2 continuity specific story material rather than a true character profile. We should definately have a real profile whenever the IDW BW Guide comes out (soooon peeaaasse) but I was wondering if there was anything we could say about him personality wise as of now? What little I remember is pretty much "generic leader." [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 02:00, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

He's a Japanese leader. That means he has zero personality. Honestly, he was dull as dishwater in BWII. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 03:12, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

:I dunno, doesn't Leiconvoy party hard? Is eem to recall an episodew where he frank a lot of beer. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:25, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Wow, franking beer *is* pretty unique behavior. (I don't usually point out spelling, but I just find this one really funny.) It wouldn't surprise me too much if he was a partier, Japan seems to like the idea of TFs getting drunk. Although I would think that'd be more Big Convoys thing, off hand. [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 12:30, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

==Name Change: Part Deux==

Question: Now that we know that the Classic "Legends" figures have no character/bio info on the cards (we DO know that right, I'm not imagining it?) don't we have to question if "Leo Prime" is actually the same characters as "Lio Convoy"? I mean, *YES* his deco is definately a homage, but LOTS of Universe toys feature homage-decos and the *exact* same names as existing G1 characters, and we've consistantly and purposely refused to treat them as being new versions of the existing robots here, because there's no official proof/bio/characterization one way or the other. Leo Prime's case is pretty much exactly the same thing isn't it (or possibly even weaker, since in those cases even the names matched perfectly)? Certianly a homage, but with nothing official to confirm it, there's no way to really say he's the same guy from BW2. Not officially. Am I missing something? [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 12:16, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

*I agree. The decision to change the name seemed premature to me. What is the basis for saying they are one in the same? --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 14:11, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

*They do have bios, albeit short ones. Leo Prime's has "Cybertronian Supreme Commander" in it somewhere. Also, Classics isn't comparable to Universe because it is stated to be a continuation of G1 and doesn't involve multiple universe-hopping. We don't have [[Megatron (Classics)]] or [[Trypticon (Classics)]] pages. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 14:57, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
: What Int said. Though it will all come down to what they call him in IDW's BW profile book, I imagine. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:05, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Spinning offa this, is there now more solid precedent for renaming Overlord as Gigatron? HOC is at least as valid as LOC, if anything it's actually more detailed. I understand some people are reluctant due to Dreamwave giving their character of Gigatron a completely different backstory than the fictional Overlord ever could have had--however, no material was ever canonically published that linked Overlord to Gigatron. Just interviews with Patyk/McDonaugh about where they'd like to take the character. It strikes me as no more consequential than 'The Greater Ape'. So why not rename?
:The European (thus, UK) release is named "Overlord". [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 03:10, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

:::I think we're waiting on Overlord until we get maybe another universe for him...? there's enough of a case to say ovelord = Gigatron IMO, but they're treated '''so''' differently...-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:46, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
::::Again, though, there are TONS of instances of characters who are portrayed wildly different in different continuities. Take Marvel Grimlock vs. Cartoon Grimlock. Or Shockwave. Or Blaster. Hell, in Dreamwave's continuity, Scourge and Cyclonus are completely different robots rather than being reformatted from the seekers or the Insecticons. Should they get different pages, too? It's quite clear that Overlord and Gigatron are meant to be the same character, even if they were portrayed differently in different continuities. The same holds true for Leo Prime and Lio Convoy - [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 08:00, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

::::Hey, you're preaching to the converted here.. I think part of the problem is- what do you call him? he got an einglish-language release as overlord. if he was renamed Gigatron... we don''t usually 'respect' renames on the Wiki. (Silverstreak, et al.) Except- in Dreamwave continuity is HIS Gigatron.. but BY FAR he's best RECOGNIZED as Overlord. And, you know, actually saw release under that name. It's a pickle. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 08:22, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
:::::His American release was Gigatron. Isn't that pretty much the standard we're using? - [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 08:52, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

::::::*shrug* I will not oppose moving the article to Gigatron. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 09:14, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

:::In my opinion, if we were to consider J-Overlord and Gigatron the same character, then the same would apply to Lightfoot and Getaway, or Road King and Slapdash, etc. They're humans in robot suits, which their Western counterparts are not. Gigatron is the Hosehead to Overlord's Cab. Quite frankly, I advcoate making Gigatron as separate character article, just as the other Powermasters have separate articles from THEIR Godmaster counterparts, similar tech specs be damned. But, yeah, I'm probably in the minority on that. The problem, I suppose, comes with figuring out where Eurolord goes. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 10:57, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::No, I'm down with that. I figure Masterforce Overlord should have his own separate article since he's a very distinctly separate... organism, then Eurolord/Gigatron a separate article. As for which name he'd go under, I vote Gigatron, since that's how we've got all the other Euro transplants from G2. (And is similar techs were all that, Charger would be Slag, and BM Mirage Skywarp.) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:49, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

::::At this time and on little sleep, I would guess that Powermaster Gigatron and Eurolord fall under the same category as, say, G2 Laser Rod Jolt and G2 Illuminator Hotrod - essentially the same character with some details changed to suit the market. Saying that, I realize that Gigatron and Overlord have entirely different bios, but comparing [http://www.cobraislandtoys.com/tf/1988/overlordtechs.jpg] them [http://www.cobraislandtoys.com/tf/2004/gigatronboxback.jpg], I don't see anything that ''contradicts'' the other with the exception of Overlord having Energon mini figures and Gigatron being a Powermaster. On the other hand, maybe that's fanfic'ing it too much... man, does anyone have Andrew Frankel's address? I'm pretty sure he WROTE Gigatron's card bio and could just say what he intended the character to be. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 12:11, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I still don't understand why the Lio Convoy articles had to be changed to Leo Prime considering her's far better known as Lio Convoy, and has been a japanese character for far longer than a US character. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 19:55, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
:Because we go by English names for characters whenever they have them. --[[User:Andrusi|Andrusi]] 20:08, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
::This is the English Transformers enyclopedia. Go to Japan's if you want Japanese names. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 02:59, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
:::I should note that ironically I am in an argument with somebody on TFW2005 who insists on using japanese names, and I am arguing Hasbro's case. I just think that in this case, the predominantly japanese character should use the japanese name, since that's what everybody who has heard of or is familiar with the character knows him as. If, IF this was the case of a joint line like the UT where Hasbro concurrently released the toy with a US name, then I might agree, but they didn't, and only just gave it a name on a repaint of a small impulse-buy toy last year. Also, the idea to change Overlord to Gigatron just because of some long-forgotten LOC is foolishness and would have just made things confusing. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:09, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
::::Your Gigatron comment would've probably been more relevant months ago. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 07:27, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
:::::I hadn't joined then. But this still irks me. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 08:47, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
:Uh guys, are we forgetting this toy '''was''' sold by Hasbro Collectors as Lioconvoy (or LioConvoy).[http://web.archive.org/web/*/www.hasbrocollectors.com/product.cfm?product=4]
[[User:Evan1975|Evan1975]] 06:01, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

==Name Change: Part the Third==
It looks like IDW is going to be calling him [http://comicnewsi.com/article.php?catid=208&itemid=9850 Lio Convoy]. How will this effect what we call the character here? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 07:19, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

:If true, I'd prefer to change it back to Lio Convoy, since now his only official US characterisation has given him the original japanese name (it seems). Plus he's been a japanese character way longer. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 11:25, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

:: I agree that if he IS Lio Convoy vs. Leo Prime when the actual IDW issues come out then yes it should be changed back, since then both would be US names and and Lio would have more story/history weight. It's wait and see at this point though, when the issues come we'll know. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 11:42, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
::: Derik agrees with Zac- mostly because Leo Prime has cleared Hasbro legal... and we'd look ''exceptionally'' stupid if the issue came out and he was called Leo Prime, it's possible some copy editor just screwed up writing the promos. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:33, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

==Name Change IV: Japan is stupid==
There is no reason for it to remain Leo Prime when we've been told it's otherwise. If they change their mind when it comes to the Ascending, then it can be changed back. The character's official name in the fiction he appeared was Lio Convoy. Nothing past that matters. {{unsigned|159.134.162.193}}
:If you're referring to Furman's blog, that isn't a source of officiality (for lack of a better term) over the name on a toy's package, no matter how much you scream otherwise and call us anti-Japanese. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 11:37, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
::But the toy is not officially confirmed as being Lio Convoy. He is an autobot, not a maximal, for a start. The name of the character in the fiction he appears in, and the toys that were released, is Lio Convoy. Not to mention the Hasbro Collectors Lio Convoy, which was released in the west, as Lio Convoy. You(the Wiki people) ARE anti-japanese, as fuck, you're practically infamous for it, since other people acknowledge the original name of the character. Furman's comment only adds to it.
There is no reason for it to remain Leo Prime. {{unsigned|159.134.162.193}}
:We're "anti-japanese" in the manner that this the fucking ENGLISH WIKI. We deal with English names when possible. If "Supreme Commander" Leo Prime is not Lio Convoy, when who the fuck is he? Who is LoC Trypticon? Bumblebee? Jetfire? Fireflight? Menasor? "Maximal, not Autobot durr durr" is a retard's argument. Is ''Universe'' Optimus Primal a different character than ''Beast Wars'' Optimus Primal? ''Beast Wars'' Ravage from G1 Ravage? Original Blackarachnia from Transmetal 2 Blackarachnia from ''Universe'' Blackarachnia? Never mind that he's technically a Cybertron to begin with (which you're unsurprisingly silent on). [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 11:52, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
::New IP-guy here, Because we all know that Universe Ratchet is the same guy as G1 Ratchet, and that Universe Defensor is the same guy as G1 Defensor. If we considered all the guys with the same paint job, and function to be the same characters, regardless of fiction, and even continuity of Origin, this Wiki would be fucked. And we still have no confirmation on the other LOC Classics, as far as the fiction is concerned they don't exist. And yes this is an English wiki, but it doesn't have to be an American one. As for your "Cybertron" Argument, the name is irrelevant, he still has a Maximal Symbol.
:::''Universe'' fiction bases itself on the multiverse. ''Classics''... does not. (Unless you'd like to argue that one-shot cameos in ''The War Within'' aren't the characters they obviously are, because we have no confirmation that they are.) Hasbro has stated that the LoC guys are the same characters. Why would they not be? What the Hell does America have to do with anything? If you are so desperately want this to be at LioConvoy, why are you not up in arms about him being referred to as a Maximal, when he never was? Why are you gnashing your teeth at one instance of "anti-Japanese bias", but not to another? [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 14:29, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
::::First of all, there's always been toy-only characters sense the dawn of Transformers, and in relation to the fiction, they simply don't exist in most cases! There's no Twintwist and Topspin running around in the G1 Cartoon always in the background, and likewise there's no Leo Prime running around in the Classics comic! He's a non entity, all we know about him is that he's a Supreme Commander of something, and also an Autobot, that's all! The fact that he's a homage to another character in another continuity is irrelevant. I'm so adement against Leo Prime because Lio Convoy was first, used more, and although both are really shitty names, Japan has an excuse, they don't speak the damn language their naming guys with! Also there's the fact that the entire club he belongs to has guys named Convoy, it's inconsistent! [[User:85.195.123.26|85.195.123.26]] 17:40, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::The only reason they don't "exist" is because you don't accept toys as valid for... some reason. Of course it's going to be inconsistent when we don't have English names for [[Big Convoy]] and some [[Great Convoy|Nobodies]]. [[Optimus Primal]] is inconsistent with the naming scheme, and the world has yet to end. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 19:31, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
:: Anti-Japanese or not, I'd vote on using the name LioConvoy because it's the name that's actually been used within the fiction, whereas the Leo Prime name has thus far only shown up on a lone Classics repaint with no bio or backstory to speak of. Plus, LioConvoy was released in North America in the late 90s, I believe alongside Shadow Panther. Sure it was, if I recall, a mail-away, but it was still a North American release. I'd say the first release should win it over the later one (much like how Jazz didn't become Meister when his Alternator toy came out). I haven't read through the entire talk page so if those arguments were already presented and voted against, well... feel free to ignore what I just said. (although I personally think the name Leo Prime sounds stupid. Makes me think of a Snapper repaint with a blue bandanna) [[User:Detour|Detour]] 12:34, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:::This is how you work with others, anonymous Netherlands guy. Instead of unilaterally changing stuff around and accusing us as being a cabal of bias, you present your case in the talk page. Detour, I don't see why the ''Classics'' toy should be irrelevant; it has a bio, albeit a short one, that calls Leo Prime a "Supreme Commander". I don't think the online store thing overrides that, since it just sold the Japanese toy (which ''is'' called LioConvoy). It's basically importing. (LioConvoy is a dumber name.) If the character is called Lio Convoy in the ''Beast Wars'' comic (''in'' the comic pages themselves, not a blog or solicitation), feel free to move it back. I'll urrgh at Furman maintaining a stupid name, but won't object. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 12:48, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:: Interrobang, that doesn't make it wrong to point out that you, and several others, are complete twats.

Most likely, if Furman is calling him LioConvoy casually, that is also the name that will appear in the actual comic. Once we have confirmation of that, the page will move back to LioConvoy with Leo Prime listed as an alternate name. 159.134.162.193, you really need to learn how to talk to other people without being a huge turd. I don't think anybody was actually objecting to the change -- once the name is official, I imagine we would all vote to move -- they were objecting to your completely counterproductive methods and reverting on principle. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 20:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

:: People need to learn to edit this Wiki without being huge turds. The same Walky-isms(anti-Jap bias, anti-fan bias) are shitted all over this place. Once people start taking this ridiculous anti-fanboy phenomenon seriously, then I'll treat people with a little more respect. Every time I try to edit an article to balance the poking fun so it's at both sides(fans and Hasbro, or fans and anti-fans, I don't touch the original content, just add to it), it gets almost immediately reverted. As long as this continues, I see no reason to respect people who do not respect attempts at showing both sides of the coin. Dutch Anon may be more to your liking than Irish Anon, but it doesn't mean that either way is any more right. You only like him better because he's not challenging you and pointing out your flaws. That doesn't make his way more right. What you're doing on this wiki is very, very wrong.

:::If you guys hate the topic title so much why don't you just click on the move button? --[[User:Oboro maru|Oboro maru]] 20:28, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

::::Because, as said above, the official name wont be established until the first issue of the new BW mini is out. Once that happens it'll be moved if needed. Got it? :) [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 01:57, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::Hasbro should have just called it Leo/Lio Primal, then it would have worked for BW's naming conventions, worked with the theme of Lio Convoy's original name and sort of makes sense in english. Yeah, I know they wanted to cash in on kids buying things with 'Prime' on them. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 15:55, 12 August 2007 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>