MediaWiki - User contributions [en]

Hero (G2)

2012-06-19T03:44:46Z

216.231.37.133: /* Notes */ Origin of "Combat Heroes"

{{picsneeded|Scans of the back-of-the-package solicitations would be ideal.}}
{{disambig2|the ''Generation 2'' subgroup|the ''Cybertron'' cartoon episode|Hero (episode)}}
:''The Heroes are a [[subgroup]] from the [[Transformers: Generation 2 (franchise)|Generation 2]] portion of the [[Generation 1 continuity family]].''

The '''Heroes''' are a cross-factional subgroup of [[Transformer]]s. Their defining characteristic is their "air-powered"<ref>Hero packaging blurb [http://www.tfw2005.com/resources/attach/4/0/5/9/7/HeroMegatron_1212931742.jpg (photo at TFW2005.com)]</ref> rocket weaponry.

[[Autobot]] Heroes:
* [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]
* [[Sureshot (G2)|Sureshot]]

[[Decepticon]] Heroes:
* [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]]
* [[Archforce]]

The two [[Autobot]] Heroes look identical to each other, except that Optimus helpfully has his name written across his chest. The Decepticons are likewise doppelgangers, with Megatron bearing his own name-label.

==Fiction==
===Marvel ''Generation 2'' comics===
When the [[Swarm (G2)|Swarm]] consumed Optimus Prime and the [[Matrix of Leadership]] with him, the sacred artifact turned the ravenous Swarm into a force for creation. It immediately stopped devouring the Transformers on [[Earth]] and reconstituted Optimus in a new body which was recognizable as his Hero form, though never called out as such. {{storylink|A Rage in Heaven!}}

==Toys==
===Generation 2===
* '''Heroes''' (North America, 1994)
** [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#HeroOptimusPrime|Optimus Prime]]
** [[Megatron (G1)/toys#Hero|Megatron]]
:Each Hero toy is armed with a large missile launcher which can fire a rubber-tipped rocket by means of a bellows which you slam your fist down on to produce a puff of air. The launcher is accessible in both modes, and the bellows is attached via a rubber hose that cannot be disconnected. The bellows stores on the figure when not in use, as do the rockets. A similar air-launching system with identical missiles was used by [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#LaserOptimusPrime|Laser Optimus Prime]] the following year.

: These molds were also used to create the [[KB Toys]]-exclusive ''[[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (franchise)|Robots in Disguise]]'' [[Destructicon (RID)|Destructicon]]s and ''[[Robot Masters (franchise)|Robot Masters]]'' [[Reverse Convoy]].

* '''Heroes''' (Europe, 1994)
** [[Sureshot (G2)#Generation 2|Sureshot]]
** [[Archforce#Generation 2|Archforce]]
:The European Hero toys are identical to the North American ones except that due to their identities being changed, their "OPTIMUS PRIME" and "MEGATRON RULES!" [[sticker]]s were redesigned to have no text at all.

*'''Combat Heroes''' (unreleased)
** [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#CombatHeroOptimusPrime|Optimus Prime]]
** [[Megatron (G1)/toys#CombatHero|Megatron]]

: [[Redeco|Recolored]] versions of the Hero Optimus and Megatron toys were solicited to numerous retailers, but they ended up a part of the great many ''Generation 2'' toys to never see the light of day. Precious few samples of these toys exist.

: At [[BotCon 1996]], a donated Combat Hero Optimus and Megatron were sold in the charity auction along with several other canceled ''Generation 2'' toys.

==Notes==
* It appears that Hasbro's name for this subgroup was in some amount of flux before "Heroes" won out: A television commercial for the North American toys called them "Combat Optimus Prime" and "Combat Megatron",<ref>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-CD2WKZgI#t=00m28s "Combat" Optimus Prime & Megatron commercial]</ref> and a magazine article said they were "Combat Hero Optimus Prime" and "Combat Hero Megatron".<ref>''Go Figure!'' article [http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a207/tec5_5/2010-12-18050712-1.jpg (scan by unknown)]</ref> It also appears that Hasbro was planning on using the term "Combat Heroes" later, as that is the name of the assortment that the unreleased versions of the toys would have been sold under.<ref>Packing slips seen with samples of the unreleased versions of the toys ([http://www.seibertron.com/images/toys/g2/g2-hero-optimus-unreleased-2.jpg photos] [http://www.seibertron.com/images/toys/g2/g2-hero-megatron-unreleased-2.jpg at Seibertron.com])</ref>

==References==
<references />

[[Category:Generation 2 subgroups]]

File:Fastlane MTMtE.jpg

2012-05-06T06:04:14Z

216.231.37.133: Colors, too.

{{DreamwaveMtMtEcharacter
|character=Fastlane
|characterlink=
|subgroup=Clone
|subgrouplink=Clone (subgroup)
|note=
|issueno=2
|lineart=Matt Kuphaldt
|pencils=
|inks=
|colors=Matt Kuphaldt}}

Spaceshot

2012-01-27T18:37:04Z

216.231.37.133: /* Notes */ Added note about Hubworld.com appearance.

{{factions|decepticon}}

:''Spaceshot is a [[Decepticon]] [[Micromaster]] from the [[Generation 1 (franchise)|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''

[[Image:SpaceshotAngry.jpg|right|300px|thumb|I'm SO angry at this cannon right now I'm turning PURPLE!]]

'''Spaceshot''' co-pilots [[Anti-Aircraft Base|one of the "most powerful Decepticon weapons of all time"]]. This is hopefully some consolation to him as, on his own, he transforms only into the back end of a B-1 bomber jet.

An unfailingly courageous soldier, Spaceshot will give his all for even the most hopeless causes. This includes defending his cowardly [[combiner]] partner, [[Blackout (G1)|Blackout]], who he insists is a valiant and fearless Decepticon warrior despite all evidence to the contrary.
{{TOCclear}}

==Toys==
===Generation 1===
[[Image:G1-toy Spaceshot.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Let's hope his face color is not caused by Blackout's piloting style!]]
* '''Micromaster Combiner Decepticon Anti-Aircraft Base''' (1990)
**''Accessories'': "Anti-Aircraft Base" tank, "scout vehicle", ramp, 2 cannons, bazooka, communications dish, "radar drum", missile launcher

: Spaceshot transforms into the rear half of a blue and gray [[popular Earth vehicle alternate modes#B-1B_Lancer|B-1 bomber jet]]. He was sold exclusively in a set which included [[Blackout (G1)|Blackout]] (who transforms into the front end of said jet), and the [[Anti-Aircraft Base]]. As a [[Micromaster Combiner]], Spaceshot can combine with any other Micromaster Combiner, [[Micromaster Combiner Transport|Combiner Transport]] or [[Micro Trailer]] to form new and excitingly unworkable vehicle modes.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/1990/Decepticon/Spaceshot/spaceshot.htm More information on Spaceshot at TFU.info]''

==Notes==
* [[Dreamwave Productions|Dreamwave]]'s ''[[Transformers: More than Meets the Eye|More than Meets the Eye]]'' profile comics accidentally reversed the character models for Blackout and Spaceshot, portraying Spaceshot as the front half of their combined vehicle mode and Blackout as the rear half. This error carried over into the bio text as well, so it is entirely possible that the personality assigned to Spaceshot was intended for Blackout, and vice versa.
* That mistake reappeared almost ten years later when, for reasons unknown, Spaceshot was featured in a character lineup on [[The Hub|Hubworld.com]]'s [[The Transformers (cartoon)|''Generation 1'' cartoon]] page, visually represented by Dreamwave's erroneous Blackout art.<ref>[http://www.hubworld.com/transformers/shows/generation-1/images ''Generation 1'' cartoon page] on [http://www.hubworld.com Hubworld.com]</ref>

==References==
<references />

[[Category:Combiners]]
[[Category: Generation 1 Decepticons]]
[[Category:Micromasters]]
[[Category: Toy-only characters]]

Ruckus (G1)

2012-01-27T00:10:38Z

216.231.37.133: /* Notes */ Added note about Hubworld.com appearance.

{{disambig2|the evil Decepticon [[Triggercon]]|his heroic mirror-universe counterpart|Ruckus (SG)}}
{{factions|decepticon}}
:''Ruckus is a [[Decepticon]] from the [[Generation 1 (franchise)|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''
[[Image:Ruckus.jpg|right|250px|thumb|"Name's Ruckus, Uncle Ruckus; no relation."]]
'''RUCKUS''' IS A SHOUTING, FIGHTING, CLAMOROUS COLLECTION OF COLLECTED JUNK AND LOOSE BOLTS. A BOLD AND DARING WARRIOR, HE IS TOTALLY DEVOTED TO WINNING AND MAKING A LOT OF LOUD, LOUD NOISE WHILE DOING IT, ESPECIALLY THE NOISY BIT. HE LOVES TO PLUNGE INTO THE THICK OF THINGS, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT CAUSES A GREAT BIG CRASH, AND CARES VERY LITTLE HOW INTACT HIS CHASSIS IS WHEN THE COMMOTION IS OVER. HE MAY BE CRAZY OR JUST ADDICTED TO THE TRANSFORMER EQUIVALENT OF ADRENALINE, BUT WHAT IS CERTAIN IS THAT HE IS TOTALLY LOYAL TO THE DECEPTICON CAUSE, AND EVEN IF HE WERE SMASHED INTO LITTLE PIECES THEY'D EACH BE LOYAL LITTLE PIECES. SURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGE!

==Fiction==
===Marvel Comics continuity===
{{noteukonly}}
Ruckus was one of [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]]'s minions [[Valvolux|since]] the early days of the [[Cybertronian Civil Wars|war]], working with him along with his fellow Triggercons in an attempt to acquire the knowledge and power of the [[Underbase]]. They failed. Spectacularly. {{storylink|The Flames of Boltax!}}

''Many millions of years later, Ruckus and the Triggercons were serving a rather unfulfilling duty under the [[Triumverate]] on Cybertron. When [[Straxus (G1)|Megatron II]] arrived and offered them a better way, they quickly agreed and executed their current leaders. {{storylink|The Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire|The Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire}} Megatron II was soon disposed of by his predecessor the original Megatron, though, who apparently wasn't interested in claiming the copy's territory on Cybertron as his own. After that, Ruckus began working directly for the [[Decepticon High Council]]. Leading a team of [[Quake (G1)|Quake]], [[Flamefeather]] and his fellow Triggercons to Earth, Ruckus was meant to retrieve [[Thunderwing (G1)|Thunderwing]], an ambitious Decepticon looking to be crowned new leader of the armies. Having been defeated by a small party of Autobots in his previous bid, however, Thunderwing was in no mood to meekly return to the council for instructions. He commandeered Ruckus and his crew for a direct assault on the Ark in order to get revenge for his humiliating defeat. {{storylink|Rage!|Rage!}} It was suicide — a half-dozen Decepticons in a shuttle against dozens of Autobots aboard their flagship, but Ruckus and his crew were forced to go along. After Thunderwing confronted Optimus Prime directly, only to be blasted off by a group of [[Targetmaster|Targetmasters]], Ruckus managed to convince him to put the vendetta on hold, at least for a little while. (And Decepticon politics being what they are, Thunderwing ended up being promoted for his lunacy, anyway). {{storylink|Assault on the Ark!}}''

As Lord Thunderwing rose to power, Ruckus was recruited into the [[Mayhem Attack Squad]]. When the Mayhems learned of a series of Autobot teams being launched into one small cluster of the universe, Thunderwing had them investigate and they learned of the [[Matrix Quest]], which Thunderwing eagerly became involved with. Ruckus had the rather short-sighted idea that the Mayhems were only looking for the [[Matrix of Leadership|Matrix]] to destroy it before it fell back into Autobot hands, but Thunderwing was planning to claim its power as his own. Ruckus's disrespect for the Matrix and Thunderwing's quest eventually provoked the Decepticon leader into backhanding Ruckus across the bridge of their ship. After Thunderwing was possessed by the corrupted spirit of the Matrix and cast out of the Ark during his attack on the Autobots, Ruckus and the other Mayhems surrendered peacefully. {{storylink|All Fall Down}}

=====''Classics''=====
{{storylink|Cheap Shots}}
{{charstubfiction}}

====Marvel UK future timelines====
''In 2009, Ruckus and the Triggercons joined [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]] in dismantling an Autobot resistance cell. Literally. {{storylink|Aspects of Evil!}}''

===Devil's Due ''G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers'' comics===
Ruckus was among [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]]'s forces on Cybertron, and was seen standing around while his commander mocked [[Perceptor (G1)|Perceptor]]. {{storylink|G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers II issue 4}}

===IDW comics continuity===
Ruckus was seen on the rampage when [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]]'s gladiators broke out of [[Kaon]]'s security services and lay siege to the city. {{storylink|Megatron Origin issue 4}}

[[Image:Stormbringer3 NebulousDecepticons2.jpg|left|220px|thumb|Nebulos: It's so yowzah]]
In modern times, Ruckus was a part of the Decepticon infiltration team based on [[Nebulos]] under the command of [[Darkwing]]. He reported on the arrival of [[Thunderwing (G1)|Thunderwing]] to this world, to the Decepticons' horror. {{storylink|Stormbringer issue 2|Stormbringer issue 2}} As Thunderwing began his mindless devastation of Nebulos, the Decepticon infiltration team moved out in a futile attempt to stop the monster. Ruckus attacked from the ground along with [[Crankcase (G1)|Crankcase]] and [[Skullcruncher]], but was crushed by the giant [[Pretender|monstrosity]]. His corpse was then used to destroy the airborne [[Roadgrabber]]. {{storylink|Stormbringer issue 3}}

{{-}}
===''TransTech''===
In the [[Transcendent Technomorph|TransTech]] city of [[Axiom Nexus]], Ruckus, [[Needlenose]] and [[Crankcase (G1)|Crankcase]] assaulted what they thought was an [[Energon (fuel)|energon]] refinery, but it turned out to be a waste fuel storage depot. Eyuw. {{storylink|Around Cybertron}}

==Toys==
===Generation 1===
[[Image:G1 Ruckus toy.jpg|right|300px|thumb|I didn't know Decepticons had uncles!]]
*'''Ruckus''' ([[Triggercon]], 1988)

:Ruckus transforms into an indigo and tan [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes|Baja buggy]]. Like the other [[Triggercon|Triggercons]], Ruckus has a pair of twin flip-out cannons as his focal [[gimmick]]. The cannons are the un[[Chrome|chromed]] gear-deploying style, like those of [[Crankcase (G1)|Crankcase]] and the Autobot [[Triggerbot]] [[Dogfight]]. In vehicle mode, the cannons deploy either side of the driver's cabin, while in his robot form they're mounted atop his shoulders.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/1988/Decepticon/Ruckus/ruckus.htm More information on Ruckus at TFU.info.]''
{{--}}

==Notes==
* Mystifyingly, Ruckus was featured in a character lineup on [[The Hub|Hubworld.com]]'s [[The Transformers (cartoon)|''Generation 1'' cartoon]] page, visually represented by his [[Dreamwave Productions|Dreamwave]] [[Transformers: More than Meets the Eye|''More than Meets the Eye'']] art.<ref>[http://www.hubworld.com/transformers/shows/generation-1/images ''Generation 1'' cartoon page] on [http://www.hubworld.com Hubworld.com]</ref>

===Foreign names===
*''Canadian French:'' '''Grabuge'''
*''Hungarian:'' '''Zörej''' ("Noise")

==References==
<references />

==External links==
*[http://www.ntfa.net/universe/english/index.php?act=view&char=Ruckus Ruckus' Marvel Universe profile at NTFA.net.]

[[Category:Generation 1 Decepticons]]

Detour (G1)

2012-01-27T00:05:56Z

216.231.37.133:

{{factions|decepticon}}
{{disambig3|Detour}}
:''Detour is a [[Decepticon]] [[Micromaster]] from the [[Generation 1 continuity family]].''

[[Image:Detour-G1-Boxart.jpg|right|250px|thumb|Little. Yellow. Footless.]]

'''Detour''' believes that strategic retreat is nothing to be ashamed of, and going out in a blaze of glory is foolishness.<ref>Detour's on-package quote</ref> This makes him the voice of reason in the [[Sports Car Patrol]], and not out of timidity; it's actually the result of his self-absorbed vanity. Patrol leader [[Blackjack]] respects Detour's sense of safety and will listen if he raises concerns.<ref>Detour's [[Dreamwave Productions|Dreamwave]] [[bio]] in [[Transformers: More than Meets the Eye|''More than Meets the Eye'' #2]]</ref>

==Fiction==
===Marvel comics continuity===
{{noteukonly}}
''After studying the captive [[Autobot]] [[Battle Patrol]], [[Thunderwing (G1)|Thunderwing]] and his scientists managed to replicate [[Emirate Xaaron]]'s Micromaster process and create a new era of Decepticon Micromasters, including Detour and his cohorts. {{storylink|A Small War!}}''

After [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] began rebuilding his power base on Cybertron, Detour and the Sports Car Patrol were some of his first recruits. Using the [[Trans-Time Dimensional Portal|trans-time dimensional portal]], Detour participated in the infiltration of the ''[[Ark (G1)|Ark]]'', joining his fellow Micromasters in tricking the ship's medic, [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]], into believing they were Autobots on their way back to Cybertron. They were able to fool Ratchet long enough to take him prisoner at Megatron's base on Cybertron. {{storylink|Back from the Dead}} When Ratchet eventually outsmarted Megatron and reactivated his buddies ([[Jazz (G1)|Jazz]], [[Grimlock (G1)|Grimlock]], and [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]]), Detour and the other henchmen had a running battle with the Autobots which took them outside the base and, luckily, out of range of the massive explosion which leveled the entire complex. The Sports Car Patrol presumably survived, but were never seen again. {{storylink|Skin Deep}}

===Dreamwave comics continuity===
[[Image:DetourDWMM.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Look ahead! Or you'll stumble over the guy from the panel below!]]
Detour was one of the many Micromasters created by the Autobots and Decepticons in a joint venture after the launch of the [[Ark (G1)|Ark]]. He could first be seen in a secret nightclub in [[Little Iacon]], where he and [[Slow Poke]] threw globs of green slimey stuff at a poster showing [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] and [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]. He then witnessed a race between [[Big Daddy (G1)|Big Daddy]] and [[Roadhandler (G1)|Roadhandler]]. {{storylink|The Gray Race}} Right after the end of the race, the Micromasters - among them Detour - were attacked by the [[Insecticon (G1)|Insecticons]] and subsequently caught prisoners. {{storylink|Recipe for Hate}} Like his fellow Micromasters, Detour was freed by [[Countdown (G1)|Countdown]], [[Groundshaker]] and the [[Hot Rod Patrol]] and partook in the march of the Micromasters to end a battle between the Autobots and Decepticons. He was one of the Micromasters carrying the severed head of [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]]. {{storylink|Victims of the Revolution}}

===IDW comics continuity===
Detour and the Sports Car Patrol were highly advanced warriors apparently in the service of the [[Dead Universe]]. They ran afoul of [[Nightbeat (G1)|Nightbeat]] on [[Gorlam Prime]] while protecting the "hole in the world". Detour and his compatriots captured the inquisitive Autobot and subjected him to an unknown procedure before letting him go. {{storylink|Spotlight: Nightbeat}} Later, they tried to defend [[Jhiaxus (G2)|Jhiaxus]] from the insane and angry [[Arcee (G1)|Arcee]]. Detour soon found himself chopped in half at the waist. {{storylink|Spotlight: Sideswipe}}

{{--}}

==Toys==
===Generation 1===
[[Image:G1-toy Detour.jpg|right|thumb|300px|He thinks [[Drift (G1)|Drift]] is overrated.]]
*'''Sports Car Patrol''' (Micromaster Patrol, 1989)

: Detour transforms into a yellow [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes#Corvette Indy|Chevrolet Corvette Indy]] sports car. He was only available in a four-pack with his teammates [[Blackjack]], [[Hyperdrive (Micromaster)|Hyperdrive]] and [[Road Hugger (G1)|Road Hugger]].

: This mold was also used to make [[Deadhour]].

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/1989/Decepticon/Detour/detour.htm More information on Detour at TFU.info]''
{{--}}

==Notes==
* Detour's toy is [[gang-molding|gang molded]] with Hyperdrive, sharing plastic colors.
* Mystifyingly, Detour was featured in a character lineup on [[The Hub|Hubworld.com]]'s [[The Transformers (cartoon)|''Generation 1'' cartoon]] page, visually represented by his Dreamwave ''More than Meets the Eye'' art.<ref>[http://www.hubworld.com/transformers/shows/generation-1/images ''Generation 1'' cartoon page] on [http://www.hubworld.com Hubworld.com]</ref>

===Foreign names===
*''French:'' '''Détour''' (Canada)
*''Italian:'' '''Occulto'''

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Generation 1 Decepticons]]
[[Category:Micromasters]]

Blackout (G1)

2012-01-26T23:38:17Z

216.231.37.133: /* Notes */ Added note about Hubworld.com appearance.

{{Factions|decepticon}}
{{disambig3|Blackout}}
:''Blackout is a [[Decepticon]] [[Micromaster]] from the [[Generation 1 continuity family]].''

[[Image:BlackoutFist.jpg|right|2505px|thumb|Hey you kids! Get off my lawn!]]

As the high-ranking co-commander of the powerful [[Anti-Aircraft Base|Decepticon Anti-Aircraft Base]], '''Blackout'''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s duties include inspiring his troops with the usual rousing speeches about determination and devotion to duty. However, when the chips are down, Blackout's immediate reaction is to forget all that crap and run for his life. Basically a coward, Blackout probably couldn't hold it together at all if not for fear of disappointing his legitimately valiant partner, [[Spaceshot]].
{{TOCclear}}

==Toys==
===Generation 1===
[[Image:G1-toy Blackout.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Half a jet's better than none!]]
* '''Decepticon Anti-Aircraft Base''' (Micromaster Combiner, 1990)
**''Accessories'': "Anti-Aircraft Base" tank, "scout vehicle", ramp, 2 cannons, bazooka, communications dish, "radar drum", missile launcher

:Blackout transforms into the front half of a blue and gray [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes#B-1B_Lancer|B-1 bomber jet]]. He was sold exclusively in a set which includes [[Spaceshot]] (who transforms into the rear end of said jet), and the [[Anti-Aircraft Base]]. As a [[Micromaster Combiner]], Blackout can combine with any other Micromaster Combiner, [[Micromaster Combiner Transport|Combiner Transport]] or [[Micro Trailer]] to form new and excitingly unworkable vehicle modes (although combining him with anyone but Spaceshot requires him to be slightly mistransformed, as his arms extend backwards beyond his connection point).

:Blackout is unique among Micromasters—being the only Micromaster able to [[:Image:G1Blackoutturninghishead.jpg|turn his head]]. This makes him great for drunk driving poses in the little jeep that comes with his Anti-Aircraft Base.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/1990/Decepticon/Blackout/blackout.htm More information on Blackout at TFU.info]''

==Notes==
*[[Dreamwave Productions|Dreamwave]]'s ''[[Transformers: More than Meets the Eye|More than Meets the Eye]]'' profile books accidentally reversed the character models for Blackout and Spaceshot, portraying Spaceshot as the front half of their combined vehicle mode and Blackout as the rear half. This error carried over into the bio text as well, so it is entirely possible that the personality assigned to Blackout was intended for Spaceshot, and vice versa.
* That mistake reappeared almost ten years later when, for reasons unknown, Spaceshot was featured in a character lineup on [[The Hub|Hubworld.com]]'s [[The Transformers (cartoon)|''Generation 1'' cartoon]] page, visually represented by Dreamwave's erroneous Blackout art.<ref>[http://www.hubworld.com/transformers/shows/generation-1/images ''Generation 1'' cartoon page] on [http://www.hubworld.com Hubworld.com]</ref>

==References==
<references />

[[Category:Combiners]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Decepticons]]
[[Category:Micromasters]]
[[Category:Toy-only characters]]

Blackout (G1)

2012-01-26T23:36:01Z

216.231.37.133: /* Notes */ Added note about Hubworld.com appearance.

{{Factions|decepticon}}
{{disambig3|Blackout}}
:''Blackout is a [[Decepticon]] [[Micromaster]] from the [[Generation 1 continuity family]].''

[[Image:BlackoutFist.jpg|right|2505px|thumb|Hey you kids! Get off my lawn!]]

As the high-ranking co-commander of the powerful [[Anti-Aircraft Base|Decepticon Anti-Aircraft Base]], '''Blackout'''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s duties include inspiring his troops with the usual rousing speeches about determination and devotion to duty. However, when the chips are down, Blackout's immediate reaction is to forget all that crap and run for his life. Basically a coward, Blackout probably couldn't hold it together at all if not for fear of disappointing his legitimately valiant partner, [[Spaceshot]].
{{TOCclear}}

==Toys==
===Generation 1===
[[Image:G1-toy Blackout.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Half a jet's better than none!]]
* '''Decepticon Anti-Aircraft Base''' (Micromaster Combiner, 1990)
**''Accessories'': "Anti-Aircraft Base" tank, "scout vehicle", ramp, 2 cannons, bazooka, communications dish, "radar drum", missile launcher

:Blackout transforms into the front half of a blue and gray [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes#B-1B_Lancer|B-1 bomber jet]]. He was sold exclusively in a set which includes [[Spaceshot]] (who transforms into the rear end of said jet), and the [[Anti-Aircraft Base]]. As a [[Micromaster Combiner]], Blackout can combine with any other Micromaster Combiner, [[Micromaster Combiner Transport|Combiner Transport]] or [[Micro Trailer]] to form new and excitingly unworkable vehicle modes (although combining him with anyone but Spaceshot requires him to be slightly mistransformed, as his arms extend backwards beyond his connection point).

:Blackout is unique among Micromasters—being the only Micromaster able to [[:Image:G1Blackoutturninghishead.jpg|turn his head]]. This makes him great for drunk driving poses in the little jeep that comes with his Anti-Aircraft Base.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/1990/Decepticon/Blackout/blackout.htm More information on Blackout at TFU.info]''

==Notes==
*[[Dreamwave Productions|Dreamwave]]'s ''[[Transformers: More than Meets the Eye|More Than Meets The Eye]]'' profile books accidentally reversed the character models for Blackout and Spaceshot, portraying Spaceshot as the front half of their combined vehicle mode and Blackout as the rear half. This error carried over into the bio text as well, so it is entirely possible that the personality assigned to Blackout was intended for Spaceshot, and vice versa.
* That mistake reappeared almost ten years later when, for reasons unknown, Spaceshot was featured in a character lineup on [[The Hub|Hubworld.com]]'s [[The Transformers (cartoon)|''Generation 1'' cartoon]] page, visually represented by Dreamwave's erroneous Blackout art.<ref>[http://www.hubworld.com/transformers/shows/generation-1/images ''Generation 1'' cartoon page] on [http://www.hubworld.com Hubworld.com]</ref>

==References==
<references />

[[Category:Combiners]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Decepticons]]
[[Category:Micromasters]]
[[Category:Toy-only characters]]

Megatron (RID)

2012-01-04T00:21:56Z

216.231.37.133: /* Toy bios */ Rephrasing for tense and style; added external links.

{{factions|predaconrid|decepticon}}
{{disambig3|Megatron}}
:''Megatron is a [[Predacon (RID)|Predacon]], turned [[Decepticon]], from the [[Robots in Disguise (franchise)|Robots in Disguise]] [[continuity family]]. He is later reborn into '''Galvatron'''.''

[[Image:RIDMegatronGrippy.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Let's see, I conquered Care-a-lot, Ponyville, Sesame Street, Shining Time Station, that planet Gumby came from...]]
'''Megatron''' is the leader of the [[Predacon (RID)|Predacons]] with the ability to take on [[Six Changer|six forms]]. He claims to have decimated numerous planets during his campaign for Predacon supremacy before coming to [[Earth]] in search of the megaweapon [[Fortress Maximus (RID)|Fortress Maximus]]. He appears to have come into conflict with [[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus Prime]] and his [[Autobot]]s numerous times before.

Although Megatron is a great and powerful warrior, he typically leaves the fighting to his Predacon lackeys, such as [[Sky-Byte (RID)|Sky-Byte]], preferring to stalk around his headquarters the [[Megastar]] and berate his underlings when they inevitably fail. Upon his conversion to '''Galvatron''', he is a ''lot'' more active and effective. His primary attack seems to be his [[Cutter Beam]] technique. As Galvatron, he can increase his power by draining the life energy of other beings!<ref>[[Bio]] in the R2 DVD, reflecting the original ''Car Robots'' Devil Gigatron.</ref>

==Fiction==
===''Robots in Disguise'' cartoon===
:''Voice actor:'' [[Daniel Riordan]] (English), [[Yōichi Kobiyama]] (Japanese), [[Luiz Carlos Persy]] (Brazilian Portuguese), [[Gerardo Vásquez]] (Latin American Spanish)

[[Image:Megatron hand.jpg|left|200px|thumb|''He wants the whole world, in his hand...'']]
Megatron arrived on Earth in search of Fortress Maximus by orders of the [[Predacon Council]] {{storylink|Surprise Attack!}} with a cover story of plundering Earth's energy. His first appearance was at the International Scientific Symposium in [[New York]], during which he and the Predacon trio fought [[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus Prime]] and the [[Autobot Brothers]]. Although the battle did not go well, Megatron was able to abduct [[Kenneth Onishi|Doctor Kenneth Onishi]], an energy expert and archaeologist. {{storylink|Battle Protocol!}} Doctor Onishi was subjected to the [[psycho-probe]] which was proving to be slow work in extracting information. In the meantime, Megatron sent his minions out to steal energy to refuel the ''Megastar'', only occasionally venturing out himself to help them.

Attempting to provide a distraction for Sky-Byte's mission to some ruins, Megatron and the Predacon trio attacked [[Metro City]], fighting [[Team Bullet Train]]. {{storylink|The Secret of the Ruins}} Another plan to trap Optimus Prime started off well — Megatron disguising himself as a red sports car proved to be an effective method to trap the Autobot [[Side Burn (RID)|Side Burn]] and they were soon able to trap Optimus as well. Megatron took great pleasure in punishing the Autobot leader until the rest of the Autobots mounted a rescue and the Predacons were forced to flee. {{storylink|Sideburn's Obsession}}

[[Image:Explosive Situation Angry Megatron.jpg|right|200px|thumb|I DO NOT NEED ANGER MANAGEMENT!]]
With little information forthcoming from the psycho-probing of Doctor Onishi, the Predacons stole a disk left by the doctor, leading them to attack a steam train under the mistaken assumption it was a weapon of some sort. This did not help Megatron's temper. {{storylink|Secret Weapon: D-5}} Nor did the destruction of his [[Mega-Laser Cannon]] by the Autobots. {{storylink|Mirage's Betrayal}} In an attempt to destroy their foe, Megatron and Sky-Byte entered the International Grand Prix which the Autobots had also entered in an attempt to find one of their number who'd gone rogue. Megatron managed to trap Optimus and the three brothers under a huge rock, but the rogue Autobot, [[Skid-Z (RID)|Skid-Z]], turned up in time to rescue them and Megatron was sent packing. {{storylink|Skid Z's Choice}}

[[Image:Commandos Megatron.jpg|left|200px|thumb|"Are you saying that there's [[Megatron (Movie)|a Decepticon who stole my name, crash-landed here and got frozen a hundred years ago and is secretly being hidden inside this dam while humans steal his technology for themselves]]? DO YOU REALIZE HOW STUPID THAT SOUNDS?!]]
After several more failed missions, the interrogation of Dr. Onishi finally saw results in the discovery of a crashed Autobot spaceship in America. Megatron was able to snatch six protoforms from the ship and took them to the nearby McKinley Army Base where he imbued them with energy from his spark and gave them new forms as Decepticons. {{storylink|The Decepticons}} Eager to test his new troops, he sent them to destroy Sherman Dam and hacked into the primitive human television transmissions in order to extort the humans in the nearby city of [[Los Bogus]] into surrendering. Unfortunately, things did not go well and Megatron was left looking embarrassed in front of all the humans. {{storylink|Commandos}}

Megatron largely stayed back at base after these incidents until the Commandos were able to sabotage the Autobot [[Global Space Bridge]]. With the Autobots unable to reach specific destinations, Megatron and Scourge attacked an energy facility near the North Pole. Unfortunately for them, the Autobots were able to get the space bridge repaired in time for Megatron to be seen off by [[Landfill (RID)|Landfill]]. {{storylink|Landfill (episode)|Landfill}}

[[Image:Forced Fusion Megatron Ruination.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Dragon-back rides were the hit of the fair!]]
Megatron was especially interested in the arrival of a new Autobot, [[Ultra Magnus (RID)|Ultra Magnus]], who had an intense rivalry with Optimus Prime. {{storylink|Ultra Magnus (episode)|Ultra Magnus}} After Magnus badly damaged Prime in a fight, causing the latter to retreat to an island to recuperate, Megatron saw his chance and personally led the attack on Optimus Prime. The attack might have succeeded if it weren't for the arrival of Ultra Magnus, who merged with Optimus to form the powerful [[Omega Prime]]. {{storylink|Ultra Magnus: Forced Fusion!}}

After the capture of the three Autobot brothers, Megatron again ventured out and was able to successfully fight Optimus, who was unwilling to fight back while the three brothers were under threat. Even after the brothers were freed, Megatron attempted to stomp the trio, only to have them fight back after they supercharged under the influence of mysterious energy channelled through Ultra Magnus. {{storylink|The Two Faces of Ultra Magnus}}

Finally, information obtained from Dr Onishi led the Decepticons to discover the location of Fortress Maximus and the fulfilling of Megatron's quest. {{storylink|Fortress Maximus (episode)|Fortress Maximus}} Although the Autobots hid Fortress Maximus, Megatron had his men try to track down the rest of the [[O-Part|O-Parts]]. The Autobots again got there first, but Megatron was able to take [[Wedge]] hostage, offering him back in exchange for the O-Parts. The exchange was ruined by Sky-Byte, which didn't exactly endear the Predacon to his master. {{storylink|A Friendly Contest}}

[[Image:Peril from the Past Galvatron.jpg|left|200px|thumb|Arise, Chooktimus Prime]]
The Decepticons subsequently tracked the Autobots to the [[Sahara|Sahara Desert]], Megatron leading the mission himself. By the time they caught up to the Autobots, Optimus had already located the [[Orb of Sigma]], the key to finding Fortress Maximus' commanding entity [[Cerebros (RID)|Cerebros]], in a deep cavern. Megatron attempted to take the Orb, but was caught in a booby trap which seized him in a powerful energy field. Soon he and Optimus were locked in combat, resulting in Megatron disappearing in the collapsing cavern. In the aftermath, the three beast Predacons pulled themselves out of the rubble, only to have their energy drained. Megatron was back with a new form and name—Galvatron. {{storylink|Peril from the Past}}

[[Image:Maximus Emerges Skybytegalvatron.jpg|right|200px|thumb|...wait, that's ''proper [[scale]]''. What are they playing at in Japan?!]]
Galvatron rejoined his troops as Scourge attempted to take control of Fortress Maximus in the heart of Metro City. He proclaimed Megatron dead and he himself to be an entirely new person. Though the attempt to control Fortress Maximus was unsuccessful, Galvatron seized Cerebros during the retreat. {{storylink|Maximus Emerges}}

Scourge's second attempt to control Maximus failed as well, leading the Decepticons to try and capture [[Koji Onishi]], the Autobots' pet human. Instead they got hold of Koji's friend [[Karl]], but Galvatron accompanied Scourge and Sky-Byte to Maximus's location. Once Karl had taken control of the titan, Scourge turned on his master, ordering Karl to destroy Galvatron. With the attempt a failure, Galvatron stunned his minion and retreated. {{storylink|Mistaken Identity}}

Galvatron used one of his new abilities to seize the traitorous Decepticons in an energy field and forcibly reprogram them to serve him. Placing them under the command of Sky-Byte, he then sent them to attack the Autobot base. Although the Decepticons and Predacons were led into a trap by the Autobots, Galvatron brought the ''Megastar'' to the battle, growing in size to join with the battle station as its right hand. After Fortress Maximus destroyed the battle station, Galvatron fell, apparently lifeless, to the ground. {{storylink|Surprise Attack!}} Not finished yet, Galvatron used his new vampiric powers to drain energy from Maximus. When confronted by Omega Prime, Galvatron demonstrated another new ability, releasing from his mouth thousands of [[Cyber-bat|cyber-bats]] which took control of Earth's children. The Autobots were forced to call a retreat.

[[Image:The Final Battle Omegagalvatron.jpg|left|200px|thumb|Have at thee!]]
Galvatron sent his Decepticon forces in after the Autobots, intending to kill two birds with one stone—he used his Striker Lance to rupture the wall of the Global Space Bridge, flooding it with lava. {{storylink|Galvatron's Revenge}} The Autobots soon escaped, but Galvatron was able to swiftly seize them in an energy field, only losing Optimus Prime when the other Autobots shielded their leader from Galvatron's energies. Optimus and Ultra Magnus again combined into Omega Prime to confront Galvatron, leading him through the space bridge to Earth's core for a final confrontation.

When [[Omega Prime]] used the [[Matrix Blade]] to destroy Galvatron's Striker Lance, the resulting explosion (and apparent release of Galvatron's absorbed energies) was enough to defeat the villain. He was last seen being exiled to the Asteroid Prison Colony, swearing that he would return to seek revenge. {{storylink|The Final Battle (RID)|The Final Battle}}
{{-}}

===Dreamwave Summer Special comic===
[[Image:DWSummerspecial RID Autobrothers Megs.jpg|right|150px|thumb|Megatron's seventh "Ugly Drawing" mode was impossible to hold back.]]
Annoyed at the Predacons' inability to steal energy, Megatron ordered Scourge and Sky-Byte to undertake a joint operation to an energy research facility in [[Arizona]], while he and several of the other Decepticons kept the Autobots busy. Megatron was soon struggling with the Autobot Brothers in [[Oregon]]. {{storylink|Ultra Magnus...to the Rescue?}}
{{-}}

===Toy bios===
At some point, Megatron took on a new body with only a single [[alternate mode]]: a head with spider-legs. This "[[emissary]] mode" was designed to combine with both [[Megastar|his space cruiser]] and the Autobots' [[Fortress Maximus (RID)|secret defense fortress]]. In a show of arrogance, Megatron also began calling himself a Decepticon.<ref>Megatron Megabolt on-package bio [http://tftechspecs.com/pics1/11664.jpg (scan at TFTechSpecs.com)]</ref>
{{--}}

==Toys==
===Robots in Disguise===
[[Image:RID Megatron toy.jpg|right|300px|thumb|It sorta looks like a bat, right?]]
*'''Megatron''' (Ultra, 2001)
**''Japanese ID number:'' '''D-001'''
**''Accessories:'' 2 missiles, 2 missile launchers

: The ''only'' new-mold badguy from the ''Car Robots'' line, Gigatron has six different configurations: robot, jet, bat, two-headed dragon, giant hand (''awesome''), and roadster. His hand mode actually has a spring-loaded "gripping" gimmick (''oh hell yeah''). He comes with a pair of pressure-launch missile launchers that can double as swords, or be combined to form a single naginata-like weapon.

: For the [[Hasbro]] ''Robots in Disguise'' line, Megatron was released using the later "Devil Gigatron" version of the mold, meaning it was capable of transforming into four more forms, though these were never advertised. The blades of his missiles were also rounded off a bit more to comply with [[For safety reasons|safety standards]].

: The Hasbro version of this mold was also used to make [[BotCon 2005]]'s [[Deathsaurus (Victory)|Deathsaurus]].

::*''[http://tfu.info/2001/Predacon/Megatron/megatron.htm More information on Megatron at TFU.info]''

{{-}}{{anchor|Galvatron}}
[[Image:RIDGalvatron2.jpg|right|200px|thumb|..., six little alt-modes. Seven little, eight little, nine little alt-modes. Ten little modes has he.]]
*'''Galvatron''' (Ultra, 2001)
**''Japanese ID number:'' '''D-013'''
**''Accessories:'' 2 missiles, 2 missile launchers

[[Image:RIDGalvatron.jpg|left|200px|thumb|One little, two little, three little alt-modes. Four little, five little...]]
: [[Redeco|Redecoed]] into a color scheme more traditionally associated with "dead" in Japan, "Devil Gigatron" was also [[Retool|retooled]] to allow four more configurations, making him the Transformer with the most official alt-modes in a single body. Aside from the original six configurations, he can now also turn into a mammoth, a hydroplane "transport", a winged griffin, and a one-headed dragon.

: This retool was used for all Hasbro-released incarnations of the mold.

::*''[http://tfu.info/2001/Decepticon/Galvatron/galvatron.htm More information on Galvatron at TFU.info]''

{{-}}{{anchor|Megabolt}}
[[Image:RID MegatronMegabolt toy.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Transforms into a [[Predator (alien)|Predator]] mask!]]
* '''Megatron Megabolt''' (Deluxe, 2002)
**''Accessories:'' Missile

: Originally developed for the [[Beast Machines: Transformers (toyline)|''Beast Machines'' toyline]] but shelved, it finally saw release as a ''Robots in Disguise'' [[KB Toys]] [[exclusive]]. Megatron Megabolt transforms into a head-shaped spider tank based on the [[Grand Mal]] design. A gear-wheel mechanism moves the legs up and down as the tank mode is pushed along. Pressing the [[spark crystal]] on the tank's top opens its jaw and fires a spring-loaded missile. In robot mode, this swings the entire cannon assembly up over the robot's head, along with a "battle mask".

: In a rather clever [[retcon]], this toy's bio [[#Toy bios|(described above)]] says that the alt-mode is a means for Megatron to take control of Fortress Maximus. As it happens, the figure ''can'' actually be used as Maximus's head if you remove the spider-legs.<ref>[http://tformers.com/article.php?sid=350 TFormers.com article] describing how to combine the Megatron Megabolt toy with Fortress Maximus</ref>

: This toy was released in Japan on [[August 8]], 2002 as a [[Toys"R"Us|ToysЯUs]]-exclusive "[[USA Edition]]".

: This mold was [[redeco]]ed as simply "[[Megabolt]]" in the [[Transformers: Universe (2003 franchise)|2003 ''Universe'']] line, then in ''[[Beast Machines: Transformers (franchise)#Beast Wars Returns|Beast Wars Returns]]'' it was redecoed again as [[Megatron (BW)/toys|Megahead Megatron]], the character it had been designed for.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2002/Decepticon/MegaboltMegatron/megaboltmegatron.htm More information on Megatron Megabolt at TFU.info]''
{{--}}

==Merchandise==
===Robot Heroes===
[[Image:Robotheroesprimemegatron.jpg|right|300px|thumb|If it's so bad to be jolly, he doesn't want to be good!]]
* '''Optimus Prime''' / '''Megatron'''
{{canceledtoy}}
{{--}}

==Notes==
*In the original ''Car Robots'' cartoon, Devil Gigatron was draining energy from children via his bats; in the dub, this was changed to him merely taking control of them to force the Autobots to back down. Also, Devil Gigatron's defeat was from a completely different cause; after ''defeating'' Omega Prime, he attempted to drain the Autobot's energy before moving onto the core of the planet itself. Unfortunately, Galvatron absorbed more energy than even he could handle, causing a backfire that knocked him out.

*In ''Car Robots'', each of Gigatron's alternate modes not only have their own voice, but their own personality. Hooray for leaders who're even crazier than [[Galvatron (G1)|Generation 1 Galvatron]]!

* According to the first ''Car Robots'' toy catalog, Gigatron and his Destrongers "passed through a rift in dimensions" to appear on 21st-century Earth, with Fire Convoy/Optimus Prime's Autobot "Dimensional Patrol" following them. This seems to have been only vaguely alluded to in the Japanese version of the show—Fire Convoy proclaimed in the first episode that he would follow Gigatron wherever he went, "even if it's to the edge of the universe"—but does not seem to have played a large part of the main story, to the extent that the ''Robots in Disguise'' dub was able to omit it entirely. It gets a mention in a Megatron character profile on the [[United Kingdom|R2]] DVD boxsets, which refer to "rumours" that he comes from [[Another Time and Place|another time and place]]. [[Chris McFeely|The author]] claims that, at the time, he was just willfully screwing with people by including it, since back then it was more rumor in the fandom than the cited fact it is now.

* The first ''Car Robots'' catalog also stated that Fire Convoy and Gigatron were once "[[:Image:MangaYoungDeathyStarSaber.jpg|childhood friends]]" that became eternal rivals. We don't really have any idea how that was supposed to work.

* The CG illustrations on ''Car Robots'' Gigatron and Devil Gigatron's packaging were done by [[Tamotsu Shinohara]], a designer at [[Toei]] who mainly does creature design for live-action ''tokusatsu'' series such as "Kamen Rider" and "Super Sentai". {{fact}}

[[Image:FigureKingDevilOstrich.jpg|thumb|250px|Put it up to eleven.]]

* Megatron was left out of the [[BotCon 2010]] [[Transformers Hall of Fame]] video tribute to Megatron(s).

* The name "Gigatron" was later used for [[Overlord (Masterforce)|Overlord]]'s ''[[Heroes of Cybertron]]'' figure. It [[wikipedia:SI_prefix#List_of_SI_prefixes|literally]] means "one thousand Megatrons".

* An interview with TakaraTomy employee [[Takashi Kunihiro]] in the August 2011 issue of ''Figure King'' magazine revealed that ''Car Robots'' Gigatron is his favorite design of the ''Transformers'' items he's worked on. Kunihiro also revealed an "eleventh mode" for Devil Gigatron in the interview, the "Devil Ostrich". How official one wants to consider this mode is up to the reader.

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Gigatron''' (Megatron, ギガトロン ''Gigatoron''), '''Devil Gigatron''' (Galvatron, デビルギガトロン ''Debiru Gigatoron'')

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Decepticon leaders]]
[[Category:KB Toys exclusives]]
[[Category:Predacon leaders]]
[[Category:Robots in Disguise Predacons]]
[[Category:Robots in Disguise Decepticons]]
[[Category:Transformers with multiple modes]]
[[Category:Vampires]]

To sell toys

2012-01-03T23:14:10Z

216.231.37.133: /* New bodies */ A little rewording; "against his will" was putting it too strongly.

[[Image:MarvelUS-19.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Hasbro wasn't quite sure whether to advertise this expensive toy until the fans forced their hand.]]

To understand ''Transformers'' fiction, it is important to understand that it exists '''to sell toys.''' [[Hasbro]] and [[TakaraTomy]] are toy companies, and they are primarily interested in continuing to sell [[Toy|toys]] to children and adults. The cartoons, comic books, etc., mostly exist to make this happen. To be sure, they normally [[Transformers (2007)#Reception|make a profit in their own right]], but this is regarded as mere gravy.

The "to sell toys" effect often distorts the fiction in interesting ways. Primarily, since you can't usually sell someone the same toy twice<ref>Although the toy lines from the [[live-action film series]] have given us multiple ''different'' toys of the ''same characters''.</ref>, Hasbro and Takara constantly introduce new toys, and often require the creators of the fiction to introduce the new characters into ongoing storylines. Older characters (whose toys are no longer being sold) are shoved aside to make room.

Another effect of "to sell toys" is when the toys have gimmicks which must be explained in the fiction. Sometimes ([[Mini-Con]]s) this is relatively easy, while other times it requires a lot of imagination on the part of the writers (the in-comic explanations for the [[Headmaster (technology)|Headmasters]] and [[Targetmaster]]s are kinda wonky).

The UK [[Transformers (Titan Magazine)|movie-based ''Transformers'' comic]] has taken this to more blatant heights. For its first year, it had a specific four-page feature every week called ''Top Gear'', which exists solely to promote the newest Transformers merchandise. ''Any'' merchandise. This led to readers being told how great [[Optimash Prime]] was. For ''[[Transformers: War for Cybertron (franchise)|Transformers: War for Cybertron]]'', [[Ironhide (Movie)|''Ironhide himself'']] opened letters pages by telling readers how ''awesome'' the game was and how [[you]] should buy it.

==Casting==
===Huge casts===
[[Image:CosmicRust-BigGroup.jpg|right|300px|thumb|[[Pokeformers|Gotta catch 'em all!]]]]
Hasbro makes a lot of toys at once, and they generally want all of them to appear in their fiction. This can force writers to bring in vast numbers of characters all at once, sometimes with awkward results. Examples include:

* The first issue of the [[The Transformers (Marvel comic)|Generation 1 comics]], "[[The Transformers (issue)|The Transformers]]", in which ''twenty-eight'' different robots appeared and introduced themselves, even though only a handful are important to the plot.
* "[[The Special Teams Have Arrived]]", a free mini-comic given away with issue [[Rock and Roll-Out!|#54]] of the [[Marvel Comics|Marvel UK]] [[The Transformers (Marvel comic)#Marvel UK|comic]], notoriously introduces the reader to ''twenty-four'' new Transformers in just three pages. Granted, four of those are the [[Combiner|combined forms]] of the other twenty, but that's still a lot of new names to remember.
* The 1987 ''[[The Transformers: Headmasters|Headmasters]]'' Limited Series, which introduced over ''sixty'' characters in the course of four issues, including all the first waves of [[Headmaster (technology)|Headmasters]] and [[Targetmaster]]s, all their [[Nebulan]] partners, the [[Technobot (G1)|Technobots]], [[Terrorcon (G1)|Terrorcons]], and [[Monsterbot]]s.
* The cartoon episode "[[The Rebirth]]" likewise abruptly introduced a deluge of the 1987 toyline characters, mostly the same ones seen in ''Headmasters''.
* In the first four episodes of ''[[Robots in Disguise (cartoon)|Robots in Disguise]]'', eighteen characters are introduced in quick succession.
* From #9 onwards, [[Transformers (Titan Magazine)|Titan's movie-based ''Transformers'']] has heavily bumped up the cast with new toys. In one example, #17 brought in nine new toys in eleven pages; only one of the five Decepticons got any real focus or dialogue.

===Random casting===
The Hasbro-induced need to show all the toys can also cause stories to suddenly focus on a new character, sometimes dropping ongoing plot threads about older ones. Examples include:

* Season 2 of the cartoon introduced many new characters/buyable toys with no explanation; despite never having been seen before, the story treats them as though they have [[Beachcomber (G1)|been there]] [[Perceptor (G1)|the whole]] [[Tracks (G1)|time]].
[[Image:Decepticonpretenders-behold.jpg|right|200px|thumb|After seven issues, it's finally time for these six dudes to do something!]]
[[Image:Optimusprimeg1preearthmarvel2.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Apparently, the Triggerbots didn't make much of an impression on Prime.]]
* The comic issue "[[Pretender to the Throne!]]" suddenly introduces a dozen Autobots and Decepticons that we've never met before, and follows their adventures. The story adds nothing to the long-range plot that couldn't have been accomplished by using existing characters; these teams were added to the mix to promote their new toys.
* Many issues of the [[The Transformers (Marvel comic)|Marvel comic]] had cover blurbs in the form "Introducing the _______!", where the blank was whatever the latest line of toys was. The following issues specifically introduce new toys on the cover: [[Repeat Performance!|#8]], [[The Next Best Thing to Being There!|#10]], [[Brainstorm!|#11]], [[Command Performances!|#19]], [[Aerialbots over America!|#21]], [[Crater Critters|#29]], [[The Cure!|#30]], [[Pretender to the Throne!|#40]], [[People Power!|#42]], [[Ca$h and Car-nage!|#46]], [[Club Con!|#47]], and [[Yesterday's Heroes!|#60]]. Throw in a few covers where new characters were pictured but not named, and that's 1/5th of the series.
* In [[Spacehikers!|issue #36]] of the Marvel comics, when [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] decides that he needs help in dealing with [[Grimlock (G1)|Grimlock]]'s inept leadership, he doesn't turn to any of the ''dozens'' of Autobots aboard the ''[[Ark (G1)|Ark]]'', which include two combiner teams and Omega Supreme. No, he has to call in his "old buddy"/new toy, [[Sky Lynx (G1)|Sky Lynx]].
* In the prelude to the [[Underbase Saga]], [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] and [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] were the lead characters in a story set before the Transformers came to [[Earth]]. But rather than palling around with the likes of Jazz or Prowl, they are instead shown alongside the newest "gimmick" characters, the [[Triggercon]]s and the [[Triggerbot]]s.
* [[Mainframe Entertainment]] planned to use [[Wolfang (Maximal)|Wolfang]] in ''Beast Wars'', but [[Tigatron]] appeared instead because he had an upcoming toy, and to save money as his CGI model was only a slight tweak of [[Cheetor (BW)|Cheetor]]'s. <ref>[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/browse_frm/thread/9c79c4226fc6dd28/30c3cdf158ea6e52?lnk=st&q=bob+forward+beast+wars+tigatron+wolfang&rnum=1#30c3cdf158ea6e52 Ben Yee relays some info from Bob Forward in regards to Wolfang being replaced by Tigatron in the Beast Wars cartoon]</ref>
* Rather than revealing stuff about the [[Vok]] and [[Tarantulas (BW)|Tarantulas]], a long-running subplot, "[[Other Victories]]" spends much of its time telling us how great [[Tigerhawk]] is and how we should buy his toy.
* The [[First (and Second) in Flight|sixth issue]] of ''[[Transformers Animated: The Arrival|The Arrival]]'' stops following the regular cast so it can flag the awesome cool out-now-in-shops [[Safeguard (Animated)|Safeguard]] toy.
* Prominent generals in [[Transformers (Titan Magazine)|Titan's movieverse]] Decepticon army change frequently and without any acknowledgment as new toys jostle for (and gain) space.

===Limited casting===
On the opposite side of things, Hasbro doesn't want to pay to depict characters that aren't selling toys. This can force a story, particularly an animated cartoon, to have a smaller cast than it otherwise might.

[[Image:Metamorphdeceps2.JPG|right|200px|thumb|The full might of the Decepticon army.]]
* The early episodes of ''[[Armada (cartoon)|Armada]]'' featured only the toys available on the shelves. This resulted in two ridiculously small teams going to [[Earth]] for the all-important mission of gathering Mini-Cons, rather inexplicable in story terms.
* [[Armada (Dreamwave comic)|Both the Dreamwave]] and [[Armada (Panini comic)|Panini comics]] suffered exactly the same problem, but it gets worse: [[First Encounter|The first ''Armada'' episode]] reused models of older Transformers as generic background guys to bump numbers up. The comics ''didn't''. So Megatron apparently conquers all of planet Cybertron with an army of three guys, whereas the city/planet defending Autobots are just five blokes.
* Dreamwave would also [[Dreamwave Armada issue 10|feature a scene on Cybertron]], where the ''only'' Autobot who seemed to exist was [[Jetfire (Armada)|Jetfire]].
* For the movie prequels, IDW got around this by deciding that [[Dreadwing (Movie)|Dreadwing]] was going to be a [[Class Alpha drone unit|series of drones]] instead of one guy, allowing for really big battle scenes despite a then-limited number of toys. {{storylink|Transformers: Movie Prequel}} (It would later turn out there was ''also'' Dreadwing who was one guy.) Titan Magazines would borrow this, and turn other Decepticons into drone series too.
{{-}}

==Plot==
===Forced explication===
{{main|Introdump}}

Rather than simply showing up in the background, new toy/characters often overtly introduce themselves, often with a ridiculous description of their special abilities. The Marvel comic is rife with examples, but it shows up across numerous fictions.

[[Image:Introdump decepticons marvelus01.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Reflector is actually here, he's just buried underneath a pile of speech bubbles.]]
* Again, [[The Transformers (issue)|''Transformers'' #1]] has two huge splash pages in which 28 characters do nothing but stand around and tell each other who they are and what they can do.
* The two-part Generation 1 cartoon episode "[[Dinobot Island, Part 1|Dinobot Island]]" features many new 1985 characters getting their own short little introductory scene, often with a characteristic bit of self-description ([[Tracks (G1)|Tracks]]: "I'd rather stay in my stunning auto mode!" [[Inferno (G1)|Inferno]]: "I'm ''always'' ready for action!" [[Beachcomber (G1)|Beachcomber]]: "Wow, like, I hope we don't destroy this place before we can study it!")
* "[[The Rebirth]]" has ''three different sequences'' in which large new groups of characters form a lineup and introduce themselves to viewers one after another. Strangely enough, much of this screen- and dialogue-time is given over to Nebulan partners; the "main" Transformer characters get no such introductions, even though they are the items kids would have to purchase to acquire the Nebulan accessories. For instance, [[Spasma]], [[Monzo]], and [[Peacemaker]] (all speaking characters) are introduced by name as part of various lineups, but their in-store hosts [[Apeface]], [[Weirdwolf]], and [[Pointblank]] are never named (and Weirdwolf never even speaks).
* "[[Beast Wars (Part 1)]]" has the Maximals walk on one-by-one admiring their beast modes, loudly explaining their names and showing character traits. This also gives the impression they deliberately changed their names to fit these new beast modes for no apparent reason.

===Gimmicks===
When the toys can do something special, fiction writers must often go out of their way to show the gimmick in action.

* The Headmaster gimmick got [[The Transformers: Headmasters|an entire Limited Series comic book]] devoted to it.
* The comic issue "[[Pretender to the Throne!]]" features [[Scorponok (G1)|Scorponok]] proudly creating the [[Pretender]]s, gloating that they will hide the Decepticons' identities from the Autobots "until it is too late". Not only does the plan not actually work, it's also a plot point with absolutely zero lead-in or build-up—at no point has Scorponok ever expressed concern about his troops being detected by the Autobots, and we've never even met the Pretender characters before. It was brought about solely because the new toys had to be jammed into the story. (The, uh, story of returning Optimus Prime's character to the comic book because he had [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#PMOP|a new toy]].)
* [[Rotor Force]] made their debut in "[[New Dawn]]", and both here and in subsequent ''Generation 2'' issues would primarily fight enemies not with guns like everyone else, but by firing their giant rotors at them. Page 3 of ''New Dawn'' actually shows them having to ''stop and reattach their rotors'' before they can carry on fighting.
[[Image:Mistaken Identity Galvatronscourge.jpg|right|250px|thumb|[[Johnny Yong Bosch|It's Morphin Time! MASTODON!]]]]
* ''[[Robots in Disguise (franchise)|Robots in Disguise]]'' [[Megatron (RID)|Megatron]] had six alternate modes and the cartoon really wanted you to see them, which is why [[Battle Protocol!|his first appearance]] is as ''a giant hand for no reason''. It gets sillier when he turns into Galvatron and gains four more modes. In "[[Mistaken Identity]]", he turns into his "Iron Mammoth" form when facing off against [[Fortress Maximus (RID)|a hostile Fortress Maximus]] even though he doesn't ''do'' anything in his form except stand there ''as he was already doing''.
* [[Jetstorm (Animated)|Jetstorm]] and [[Jetfire (Animated)|Jetfire]] are the only Autobot jets in the ''Animated'' line. (Not counting the toyless [[Omega Supreme (Animated)|Omega Supreme]].) To fully big this up, their origin story has it that there have ''never been'' any flying Autobots before, despite them having been in (and won) a long and bitter war with enemies who ''often fly''.

The [[Unicron Trilogy]], noted for its gimmicks in all three toylines, was particularly notorious in this regard:

* The quest for power-enhancing [[Mini-Con]]s practically defined the plot of the ''[[Armada (cartoon)|Armada]]'' cartoon, with both factions out to recruit or capture all the Mini-Cons.
* [[Powerlinx|Powerlinxing]] is shown again and again and again in ''[[Energon (cartoon)|Energon]]'', despite having comparatively little relevance to most episode plotlines.
* [[Cyber Key]] powerups are likewise shown repeatedly in ''[[Cybertron (cartoon)|Cybertron]].''
* All three series were also marked by lengthy transformation sequences which highlighted the gimmicks in very toy-accurate animation (and also made production cheaper, thanks to [[Stock footage|recycled footage]]).

===Strange developments===
Shoehorning loads of new characters with new powers can compel the writers to do things with the plot that, in all probability, they otherwise wouldn't.

* Marvel UK had to promote the [[Special Teams]] toys ''before'' they knew how they'd be appearing in the US reprints. To get around this, [[Simon Furman]] wrote a story arc titled "[[Second Generation!]]", where [[Buster Witwicky (G1)|Buster Witwicky]], Optimus and Shockwave <strike>watched an advert</strike> saw a Matrix-induced vision of the Special Teams in action. These events were previewed in "The Special Teams Have Arrived", nine issues earlier, with no indication that they were part a vision, making their place in continuity uncertain.
* In the US Marvel comics, the simultaneous introduction of the [[Aerialbot (G1)|Aerialbots]] and [[Stunticon (G1)|Stunticons]] and the introduction of the Pretenders both saw a lot of rigamarole involved in explaining why both the Autobots and the Decepticons had new members with identical numbers/gimmicks at the same time.
* Season 3 of the [[The Transformers (cartoon)|Generation 1 cartoon]] almost completely ignored the characters of the previous two seasons that were no longer on toy shelves. The 1985 Autobot cars, for example, are not seen at all. [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]] and the 1985 Mini-Vehicles, by contrast, show up now and again, as their toys were still shipping. Even Starscream, who was ''dead'', managed to get a couple of Season 3 episodes all to himself; again, his toy sold through 1986.
* [[Transformers Comic-Magazin issue 2]] wrote an entire story devoted to Optimus sternly explaining which Autobots and Decepticons were on sale in [[Germany]] in 1989. The reason he had to? [[Quickmix (G1)|Quickmix]] had ''shot an Autobot''!
* The first thirteen issues of the ''[[Armada (Dreamwave comic)|Armada]]'' comic were focused around the Mini-Cons, with plots often revolving around their desire to be seen as equals and not be enslaved. Then without ''any'' prior set-up, the last five issues turn into a dimension-spanning battle against [[Unicron]]—who had just had a new and expensive toy.
[[Image:Samprowl.jpg|right|100px|thumb|<strike>Upgrades are bad.</strike> Upgrades are GOOD. We have always been at war with <strike>Eurasia</strike> Eastasia.]]
* "[[A Fistful of Energon]]" has [[Prowl (Animated)|Prowl]] learn not to use upgrades, and gives up using powerful samurai armour. But whoops, Hasbro thought "hey, we could make a toy out of that armour"! And so in [[Five Servos of Doom|a later episode]], Prowl ''regains'' it and the show hurriedly claims that the upgrade is fine ''now'' because Prowl realizes now that it's the Autobot, not the upgrade.
* The [[France|French]] decided to be good sports and start using propeller-driven nuclear bombers again, just so [[Octane|Tankor]] could be used ([[All Hail Megatron issue 11]]).
* [[Ransack (ROTF)|Ransack]] has been on Earth for a while, in hiding from other Decepticons while he waits for orders from [[the Fallen]]. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.7|Turnabout}} Ransack is a member of a race that can scan any object and take its form as a disguise. Ransack moves around in the cunning disguise of ''a 100-year-old plane''. (At least, unlike the previous example, the oldness of the alt-mode was pointed out.)
* In Titan's ''Revenge of the Fallen'' comic, [[Skids (ROTF)|Skids]] and [[Mudflap (ROTF)|Mudflap]] go from being [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee's]] responsibility to bugging [[Ironhide (Movie)|Ironhide]] to being [[Sideswipe (Movie)|Sideswipe's]] responsibility in the space of three issues, all to allow each issue to focus on a specific toy-bearing movie star. Similarly, only one or two Decepticons per issue are sent on a mission, when presumably the Fallen might want to send loads of guys to silence the twins.
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===Awkward continuity===
[[Image:Earthforce.jpg|right|200px|thumb|This happened... er.... look just buy the toys, ok?!]]

Sometimes the requirement to feature new toys can be so strong that continuity takes a major backseat and stories are produced that feature combinations of characters that make the story very difficult to slot into the main continuity. The Marvel UK comic was especially prone to this as it could not always foresee where, when and how characters would be introduced:

* The ''[[Transformers Annual 1986]]'' contains many stories featuring toys from the 1985 release long before they were formally introduced in the regular comic, often interacting with other characters who would be out of action by then. As a result few of the stories easily fit the continuity of the weekly comic.
* The demands of Hasbro UK for the [[Headmaster (technology)|Headmasters]] and [[Targetmaster]]s to be featured heavily even before the US ''[[The Transformers: Headmasters|Headmasters]]'' mini-series was available meant that both the ''[[Transformers Annual 1988]]'' and the regular strip "[[Worlds Apart!]]" contain a slightly different set of events that are at odds with the mini-series.
* The requirement to give prominence to the rereleased toys in the [[Classics (Europe)|Classics]] range resulted in one the biggest continuity trainwrecks of all, [[Earthforce]]. Over two decades later fans are still uncertain where it fits in continuity, and even [[Simon Furman]] admits to being unsure.<ref>"Looking back, as I try my hardest not to do, it's very hard to tie the Earthforce stories into a specific time frame (in terms of the US continuity), because (if I'm brutally honest) I didn't try too hard to make it work in the first place. By that point, I was just trying to tell a bunch of fun UK stories that didn't necessarily impact on the larger (US) storyline. How was I to know 15 or so years later people would be trying to reconcile it all?" [http://transfans.co.uk/interviews_furman.php TransFans.net - Interviews: Simon Furman - Part 1 'The Past'].</ref>
* Germany's ''[[Transformers Comic-Magazin]]'' started in 1989 and reprinted older Marvel US and UK strips. Since, of course, these would rarely show the current toys, Comic-Magazin ran text stories from #2 that showcased ''completely different'' Transformers that were on Earth at the same time, and just happened not to be seen in the strips.
* Trapped between the need to pimp toys and the problem of not knowing what the plot of ''Revenge of the Fallen'' would be, Titan just threw up their hands and unambiguously set their lead strip in [[Transformers (Titan Magazine)#Alternate universe|an alternate universe]].
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===Power levels===
In order to make new characters seem more ''totally awesome'', they're often depicted as ultra-powerful in their initial appearances. Once they become old news, they frequently seem to lose their super-charged abilities.

* The Generation 1 cartoon introduced [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]] as the ultimate threat. Once newer combiner teams came along, however, he was less of a threat, easily defeated at various times by [[Bruticus (G1)|Bruticus]], [[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]] and even [[Perceptor (G1)|Perceptor]].
[[Image:Buzzsawyikes4.jpg|right|250px|thumb|Buzzsaw reminds Omega Supreme he's not a new toy any more.]]
* The Marvel comics feature [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]] as nigh-invulnerable and ultimately powerful in [[Command Performances!|his debut issue]], slaughtering 2/3rds of the Decepticon forces sent to attack him. Just [[Dark Star|two years later]], he's getting his butt handed to him by the likes of [[Buzzsaw (G1)|Buzzsaw]], one of his original victims.
* [[Waspinator]] was, amazingly, something of a threat in early episodes; he holds his own against [[Cheetor (BW)|Cheetor]] in his debut. He only became significantly weaker than the other Predacons during the second season.
* In her first appearance on the ''Beast Wars'' cartoon, [[Airazor (BW)|Airazor]] effortlessly blasts [[Terrorsaur (BW)|Terrorsaur]] to pieces. She never displays such a level of power again.
* Similarly, [[Rampage (BW)|Rampage]] was presented as a huge threat when he first appeared, but just a few episodes later, he seems just slightly tougher than the average Predacon (save for a few notable occasions).
* [[Sky-Byte (RID)|Sky-Byte]] was actually a credible threat for his first couple of episodes.
* The [[Commando|Commandos]] were far more powerful and competent than the Predacons, who were made even ''less'' powerful and competent as episodes went on. Remarkably, this was actually used in the plot, with Megatron focusing on the new toys while the Predacons became underdogs trying to get their old status back and one-up the new guys.
[[Image:ArmTVTidalWave.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Before he shrank in the wash.]]
* ''Any'' new toy character in the Unicron Trilogy cartoons is almost guaranteed to win the day's battle.
* [[Tidal Wave (Armada)|Tidal Wave]] was a staggering behemoth as big as the sky in his introduction, and his ability to combine with Megatron LITERALLY gave the battle advantage to the Decepticons until his equally powerful counterpart [[Overload (Armada)|Overload]] was introduced. By the time of the ''Energon'' cartoon, Tidal Wave is just this tall guy (but not as tall as he used to be) and is treated as just another Decepticon, even after he gets a body upgrade in the form of "Mirage".
* When the newly redecoed Jetfire and Optimus combine in Dreamwave's Armada comic, they are so powerful ''they can hurt Unicron himself''.
* [[Animatron|Jungle Planet]] ruler [[Scourge (Cybertron)|Scourge]] was incredibly powerful when he was first introduced, but later on, he's getting slaps on the wrist by [[Lori]] and [[Thunderblast (Decepticon)|Thunderblast]], and schooled by [[Bud Hansen|Bud]], ultimately becoming more of a sympathetic comedic bumbler than a credible threat.
* The Decepticons in ''Animated'' started off as being so horrifically powerful that the entire Autobot team had to take on a ''single'' one. By Season 3, this no longer happens. Uniquely, this was ''deliberate'' by the writers: they wanted to show the Decepticons as supreme threats, and have the Autobots gradually being better at dealing with them.
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===New bodies===
There's rarely a compelling reason for a Transformer to get a brand-new body in fiction; it's simply to promote a new toy. It has become a default way to keep a popular character on shelves, rather than having to kill them off and introduce a new character to keep moving toys. Sometimes fiction writers are able to work these alterations in elegantly... sometimes not.

[[Image:Bumblebeeskindeep.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Ratchet pulls a Kitty Pryde on Bumblebee.]]
* [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]] was rebuilt into Goldbug following his near-destruction... and was later re-rebuilt back into Bumblebee to sell the [[Bumblebee (G1)/toys#Pretender|new Classic Pretender toy]]. The reason given in [[Skin Deep|the comic storyline]] was that [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]] reverted him without his consent because Ratchet liked his old form better, something Bumblebee is strangely fine with.
* Season 2 of ''[[Beast Wars (cartoon)|Beast Wars]]'' introduced the new [[Transmetal]] toys in short order, requiring some strange sci-fi waffling to explain why members of both teams suddenly got special new bodies. The writers had originally planned to introduce these changes gradually, across the length of Season 2, but Hasbro ordered them to be brought in immediately. (The slow-and-gradual notion would eventually appear during Season 3.)
* The [[Unicron Trilogy]] cartoons feature [[Megatron (Armada)|Megatron]] getting recolored and renamed "Galvatron" ''three times''; at the start of each subsequent series, he's given a different body but called Megatron ''again'', because the name "Megatron" just sells more toys. (This also means Hasbro gets to keep the [[trademark]] "Galvatron".)
* Several times during the Unicron Trilogy, characters get new paint jobs as part of some magical power-up enhancement. These new color schemes exist solely to promote redecorated toys like "[[Ironhide (Energon)|Energon Ironhide]]" or "[[Hot Shot (Armada)/toys|Powerlinx Hot Shot]]". Even the comics got in on the action, introducing the redecorated versions of [[Jetfire (Armada)|Jetfire]] and [[Optimus Prime (Armada)|Optimus]] during the Unicron arc.
* The three future members of the [[Cybertron Defense Team]] get shot up by Megatron, then transmogrify through the power of [[Burning justice|BLAZING HEART OF JUSTICE]] into new forms. These new forms, of course, were just hitting shelves at a toy store near you.
* In the course of the [[Transformers (2007)|live-action movie]], [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]] gets irritated at a slight against his alternate mode, and scans a new form. Voila, suddenly he's got ''two'' toys on the shelf!
* When [[IDW Publishing|IDW]]'s ''Transformers'' comic originally came out, there were no Generation 1-themed toys to flog, and many characters were given altered designs for the series. Then along came ''[[Universe (2008 franchise)|Universe]]'', featuring new toys of Generation 1 characters, and suddenly multiple characters get new, toy-accurate bodies in ''[[The Transformers: All Hail Megatron|All Hail Megatron]]'', for no apparent in-story reason. Later, [[Bluestreak (G1)|Bluestreak]] even gets a namechange to ''Silver''streak to fit his toy.
* [[Shockwave (Animated)|Shockwave]] was originally grey, but when he was reunited with the ''Animated'' Decepticons, he changed his colours to purple while referring to it as his proper look. Why he changed colouration to go undercover was not explained, but it may have something to do with a purple-coloured Shockwave toy being out when that episode aired.
* In ''[[Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen]]'', [[Skids (ROTF)|Skids]] and [[Mudflap (ROTF)|Mudflap]] start out as an old ice cream truck combiner but after a disastrous mission [[NEST]] decides to upgrade them to new individual [[General Motors]] vehicles. New toys ''and'' product placement!

===Abrupt conclusions===
[[Image:MarvelUSG2-12.jpg|right|150px|thumb|It's the end of the road for Transformers Generation 2! That can't bode well for the toyline.]]

Just as ''Transformers'' fiction lives at Hasbro's pleasure, so too does it die. Falling sales, a change of plans, and standard [[rebranding]] can all cause a storyline to come to a sudden end when Hasbro decides to pull the plug.

* The American Generation 1 cartoon got a somewhat rushed conclusion in the form of "[[The Rebirth]]", rather than a full fourth season.
* The Generation 1 comics were nearly canceled at [[On the Edge of Extinction!|issue #75]], but granted a reprieve. The stay of execution was only temporary, however; with the Generation 1 toyline ending, the comic was terminated a mere five issues later, resulting in a rather hasty concluding plotline.
* Hasbro was only willing to support the [[Generation 2 (Marvel comic)|''Generation 2'' comic]] for twelve issues, unless it proved an unqualified (perhaps phenomenal) success. Aware of this from the start, writer Simon Furman was able to plot a story arc that reached its finale as the series ended (and poked fun at it with a character whose name is a pun on "[[Jhiaxus (G2)|Gee, axe us]]".)
* The writers of the ''Beast Wars'' cartoon reportedly never had any idea if they'd be back for another season. When the axe fell with Season 3, they had only three episodes left to wrap up the whole series.
* Hasbro nearly killed off the just-begun comic series ''The Wreckers'' in 2001, wishing instead for [[3H Productions|3H]] to focus on a ''[[Universe (2003 comic)|Universe]]'' comic advertising its current toyline.
* Even though ''[[Cybertron (cartoon)|Cybertron]]'' wasn't abruptly canceled, Kids WB ended the series on the cliffhanger of the episode "[[Revelation (episode)|Revelation]]", leaving millions of kids tuning in next time only to get a re-run of ''Xiaolin Showdown''. The reason? The Cybertron Defense Team toys hadn't hit stores yet.
* With ''[[Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen]]'' coming out in June, Titan had to end their alternate universe storyline in May so they could tie in early—an issue earlier than planned. The main strip handled this, with the notable exception of [[Jazz (Movie)#Titan Magazines Transformers movie comics|the Jazz plot arc]] going completely unresolved, but it played havoc with working out the IDW reprints!
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==Death==
===Killing off old product===
[[Image:Tftm1986a.jpg|right|150px|thumb|Guess who's no longer in the Mini Vehicles case assortment?]]
[[Image:Newyorkunderbase.jpg|right|150px|thumb|Publisher's clearing house.]]
[[Image:BW Scorponok Terrorsaur deaths.jpg|right|150px|thumb|Scorponok, Terrorsaur, we're condemning you to a fiery death 'cause Waspinator has a bigger fan club.]]
The most obvious To Sell Toys effect comes from the temporary nature of retail sales. Even in the 1980s, toys rarely stayed on the shelves past two years; today that timespan is much smaller. Once a toy is no longer selling, Hasbro has no interest in supporting fiction about that character—especially when there's newer toys to promote. Therefore, writers are often compelled to remove characters from the story by killing them off. Sometimes this happens through carefully developed story arcs, but it's easier to do it with huge, apocalyptic battles with massive numbers of casualties.

This has become less common in recent years, as Hasbro has come to realize that their target audiences can actually get attached to certain [[character]]s, and might not enjoy seeing them die random, brutal, meaningless [[death]]s.

* In ''[[The Transformers: The Movie]]'', numerous main characters are killed or changed in the movie's first 30 minutes, including [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]], [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]], [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]], and [[Ironhide (G1)|Ironhide]]. They are replaced by a slew of new characters; in fact, the poster for the movie shows ''only'' new characters.
* Numerous characters are killed in the Marvel UK comics saga "[[Time Wars]]". The Grim Reaper seemed to spare either popular characters (Megatron and [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]]) or newer characters ([[Carnivac (G1)|Carnivac]], [[Catilla (G1)|Catilla]] and [[Scorponok (G1)|Scorponok]], for example.)
* The [[Underbase Saga]] features a super-powerful [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] killing literally ''dozens'' of characters; some place the count over fifty. The survivors were mostly from the [[Pretender]], [[Headmaster (technology)|Headmaster]], and [[Targetmaster]] ranks, those being the then-current toy lines. However, the explanation (Underbase power didn't affect those TFs with organic components) meant that even the [[Seacon (G1)|Seacons]], new toys at the time and introduced three issues before, met their end.
* The climactic [[On the Edge of Extinction!|battle with Unicron]] 25 issues later killed off many of the Underbase survivors, whose shelf run had ended.
* With its enormously expensive CGI animation, ''Beast Wars'' was particularly vulnerable to toy-based interference. The expense of creating and animating a CGI body model meant that the character roster had to remain fairly constant; the introduction of all-new characters usually required the removal of an equal number of pre-existing characters. And so, [[Scorponok (BW)|Scorponok]] and [[Terrorsaur (BW)|Terrorsaur]] die just in time for the arrival of [[Quickstrike (BW)|Quickstrike]] and [[Silverbolt (BW)|Silverbolt]]. (Frustrated with the situation, the writers carefully planned out<ref>http://www.builtstlouis.net/tf/manic/m-botcon.html</ref> the demise of [[Dinobot (BW)|Dinobot]], anticipating that someone would have to be removed to make way for [[Rampage (BW)|newer characters]].) [[Tigerhawk]] was introduced and then killed off within three episodes, due to corporate uncertainty about whether the toy would actually be produced.
* ''[[Transformers: The Reign of Starscream|The Reign of Starscream]]'' would end up killing a large number of Autobots in one issue, after their toys had been around for a while; as they'd not made an appearance in the comics until this mini, this is both an example of Huge Cast ''and'' Product Clearing. {{storylink|The Reign of Starscream issue 5}} It would then go on to bump off some Decepticons, while its sequel ''Alliance'' slaughtered ''hordes'' of Decepticons with old toys. Mowry is the new Furman... {{storylink|Transformers: Alliance}}

===Hi-and-die===
[[Image:Chuffer cof.jpg|right|150px|thumb|Likely dialog: "SHEEEAAGH!!"]]
Kids don't want to buy a toy of a character who's dead. So if the plot calls for someone to die, smart money bets on the character who has a toy as the survivor. The guy without a toy, who you've never heard of before? Toast. This is the Transformers version of ''Star Trek's'' infamous [[wikipedia:redshirt_syndrome|redshirt syndrome]].

* This approach was particularly common in the [[The Transformers (Marvel comic)#UK comics|UK comics]]. Characters created specifically so they could be killed off include Wrecker leader [[Impactor]], Autobot/zombie food [[Chuffer]], Tailgate's Autobot trainee buddies/mutant fodder [[Subsea]] and [[Flattop (Autobot)|Flattop]], and the sixth member of the "Magnificent Six", [[Stampede]].
* The US comics also used this approach on occasion, as with [[Blaster (G1)|Blaster]]'s poignantly adorable buddy [[Scrounge (G1)|Scrounge]].
* The ''Energon'' cartoon introduced [[Padlock (Energon)|Padlock]], whose purpose was to die at [[Shockblast]]'s hands, proving motivation for toy-character [[Wing Saber (Energon)|Wing Saber]].
* ''Animated'' chucked in [[Arcee (Animated)|Arcee]] so Ratchet could have a tragic past where he failed to save someone. (And ''then'' she got a toy!)
* The [[Transformers Animated (Titan)|''Animated'' comic]] wants to do a story arc about an Autobot who's really a spy and then have him killed. Quick, [[Afterburn|make someone up]]!
* ''[[Transformers: Exodus|Exodus]]'' invents hordes of characters solely to populate the story with casualties while preserving the classic characters: [[Chromatron]], [[Gauntlet]], [[Halogen (WFC)|Halogen]], [[Drixco]], [[Revo]], [[Catalycon]], and dozens of other unnamed Autobots, Decepticons and [[Seeker (body-type)|Seekers]].
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===Resurrection===
Killing off a character isn't always toy-motivated; sometimes it's a dramatic plot development. But it can also be a problem if Hasbro decides to make a new toy of that character.

[[Image:Inferno dies agenda2.jpg|right|150px|thumb|Only a flesh wound!]]

* [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] has been resurrected [[The many deaths of Optimus Prime|so many times]] that it's practically a defining character trait. His original revival in the cartoon didn't correspond to any actual toy release, but the Marvel comic brought him back specifically to advertise his [[Powermaster]] form. A second death-and-revival introduced his [[Action Master]] body. And a ''third'' death-and-revival in ''Generation 2'' brought him into his [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#G2Hero|Hero]] toy form.
* The Japanese killed off Optimus (or "Convoy" as they called him) in [[The Headmasters (cartoon)|''The Headmasters'']]. A few years later, they not only brought him back with a new toy, {{storylink|The Battlestars (story page)|The Battlestars}} the ''entire franchise'' for that year was called ''[[Return of Convoy (franchise)|Return of Convoy]]''.
* Numerous "dead" characters were brought back into the Marvel comic series when their Classics and/or Action Master versions were released. Many were "deactivated" rather than outright dead; however, very few ''non'' Action Master characters showed up alongside them.
* The series writers for ''Beast Wars'' considered [[Optimus Primal]] dead and gone at the end of Season 1. Hasbro, however, had a [[Transmetal]] Optimus Primal toy to promote, and so he was returned to life in Season 2. Hasbro wanted him brought back in the first minutes of the season premiere, but the writers managed to convince them that it would be better to do so at the ''end'' of the two-episode story.
* At the end of Season 2 of ''Beast Wars'', [[Inferno (BW)|Inferno]] was pretty clearly shown being killed—being ''disintegrated''—but in the next season appeared to have just been bruised and cracked, because Hasbro was not ready to have a Mega-scaled toy removed from the series.
* Pretty much ''nobody'' could successfully die in the [[Energon (cartoon)|''Energon'' cartoon]]. [[Megatron (Armada)|Megatron]], [[Starscream (Armada)|Starscream]], [[Demolishor (Armada)|Demolishor]], [[Tidal Wave (Armada)|Tidal Wave]], [[Wing Saber (Energon)|Wing Dagger]], and [[Inferno (Energon)|Inferno]] all die and/or are resurrected from the dead during the course of the show.
* [[Jazz (Movie)|Jazz]] still had toys out in 2008. The [[bio]] for AllSpark-Enhanced Autobot Jazz states he was brought back from near-death by the AllSpark and is "more powerful than ever". Voila, Jazz comes back from the dead thanks to the AllSpark in Titan's tie-in comic! {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 16|Dark Spark}} Optimus even uses the ''term'' "Autobot Jazz" in a later issue... {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 21|Hard Target}}
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===Untouchables===

[[Image:Armorhide_drawhisfire.jpg|right|250px|thumb|Really, they could just stand there making rude noises at Starscream.]]

Obviously, if a character ''does'' have a current toy (or soon will), they're not going to die, even if the plot or common sense indicates they should.

* [[Blackarachnia (BW)|Blackarachnia]] had betrayed [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]] to the Maximals, ruining his greatest shot at victory. As he declared, "There will be no more betrayals!", she would pay the price: being knocked into stasis lock so the Maximals could fix her and she could stay on their team. {{storylink|Optimal Situation}}
* Megatron himself was in a prime position to be terminated, as were the Maximals later on, in "[[The Weak Component]]". Since this was only episode 6 and everyone had toys out, the cast politely agreed not to take this opportunity to end a brutal war for the planet.
* Titan's Movie strip was moved to an alternate universe, where you'd [[Rhythms of Darkness!|expect nobody to be safe from death]]. However, most of the cast had toys out, so whether it was a desperate guerrilla fight against Decepticon occupation, the rise of [[Unicron]], a [[Decepticon Civil War]], or the final battle, very few characters bought it. The big exception was [[Divebomb (Movie)|Divebomb]], dying in his first battle.
* Starscream, the end.

==Notable exceptions==
There are, however, a few notable exception to the To Sell Toys effect:

===Toys not released in the relevant market===

[[Image:Swoopg1marvelukfirst.jpg|right|200px|thumb|YOU CAN'T HAVE ME.]]

Occasionally the ''Transformers'' fiction released in a particular country features characters whose toys were not released in that country. The Marvel UK comic featured two variants of this phenomenon:

* Characters inherited from the US strips. Some, such as [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]], [[Swoop (G1)|Swoop]] and the [[Predacon (G1)|Predacons]], were given fairly prominent roles in the US stories reprinted in the UK comic and so it was hard to ignore them completely in the UK originated material despite their toys not being around to need advertising. However the decision to develop the Predacons (even before their US appearances were reprinted), to have entire storylines focusing on Swoop, and also to keep Shockwave in continuity even after he'd been (supposedly) killed off in the US comic goes beyond this.
* Characters not featured in the US strips. Bizarrely the UK comic also made use of some characters such as [[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]], [[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]], [[Chop Shop]] and [[Venom (G1)|Venom]], despite their toys not being available on UK toy shelves. None of these characters were inherited from the US material.

Writer [[Simon Furman]] has since stated that when writing the stories he was generally unaware of which toys were unavailable in the UK: "We largely took our cue from what characters were being introduced into the US storyline. If there was a release schedule for the toys in the UK, we rarely saw it... But in the case of Swoop and the Predacons, I don't think I was consciously aware (at the time) that we were dealing with toys not generally available in the UK. They were just extant characters, and therefore fair game." <ref>[http://transfans.co.uk/interviews_furman.php TransFans.net - Interviews: Simon Furman - Part 1 'The Past'].</ref>

This would happen again with Titan, as foreign exclusives palled around with UK-available toys such as [[Bludgeon (ROTF)|Bludgeon]] and [[Slap Dash|Slap Dash]].
{{-}}

===Post-Marvel comics===
[[Image:Infiltration 1b.jpg|right|200px|thumb|"Hey, Runamuck, it's our first appearance on a comic book cover in twenty years!" "Heh heh, now if only we could appear on toy store shelves..."]]

Both [[Dreamwave Productions|Dreamwave]] and [[IDW Publishing|IDW]] comics, the two recent holders of the license to publish ''Transformers'' comic books, sometimes produce comics using whichever toy line is current (e.g., Dreamwave's ''[[Armada (Dreamwave comic)|Armada]]'' comic or IDW's [[Transformers (2007)|2007 movie]] tie-ins), and sometimes publish comics using whatever characters they please (e.g., ''[[Transformers: The War Within|The War Within]]'' and ''[[The Transformers: Escalation|Escalation]]''). The characters in their "discretionary" comics are often not currently available in toy form ([[Hardhead (G1)|Hardhead]], a current character in IDW's G1 continuity, has only recently had a toy on shelves after twenty years), sometimes are drawn with bodies that have ''never'' been toys (most of the ''War Within'' characters), and sometimes are toys that were never available outside of specific countries ([[Lio Convoy]] in IDW's ''Beast Wars'').

[[Chris Ryall]], IDW Editor-in-Chief and writer of the miniseries adapting the 2007 movie to comics, had stated on IDW's forums that Hasbro does not dictate what comics IDW must make ("Nope, no dictates at all from Hasbro. We put the plan together, send to them for approval.").<ref>http://forum.idwpublishing.com/viewtopic.php?p=69377</ref> By the time of ''All Hail Megatron'', however, the ''Universe'' line came out and Hasbro asked IDW to start using some of those designs. <ref>[http://forum.idwpublishing.com/viewtopic.php?p=102461&sid=2298445cdfba342643da80282a95cc7a#102461 Guido reveals the Hasbro request]</ref> This practice seems to have been thrown out for the new Ongoing title.

===New toys, same basic design===

In more recent times (mostly in the case of the [[live-action film series]]), Hasbro use a combination of minor [[redeco]]s and [[retool]]s and sculpts based on the same basic designs to create new toys, instead of giving recurring characters a major design overhaul for the next installment. The fiction then rarely, if ever, acknowledges any of those minor design changes. According to screenwriter [[Roberto Orci]], some people at Hasbro even argued against changing the designs of some returning characters in ''[[Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen]]'', so that parents would '''not''' have to buy the same toy twice for their children just because of a minor change or modification to the characters' designs. <ref>[http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showpost.php?p=2186879&postcount=171 Roberto Orci posting at TFW2005.com]</ref> (Hasbro still released new, or modified, toys of those characters, prompting [[completist]]s to buy them as well, and the film gave some of the characters slight tweaks in their [[alternate mode]]s, based on changes in the real-life vehicle designs, which the toys had to incorporate.)

==Footnotes==
<references/>

[[Category:Toys]]

Knock Out (Prime)

2011-03-19T22:31:45Z

216.231.37.133: /* Notes */ Just thought of another gaiety. I don't think it's much of a stretch.

{{faction|decepticon}}
{{disambig3|Knockout}}
:''Knock Out is a [[Decepticon]] from the [[Transformers: Prime (franchise)|Prime]] portion of the [[Aligned continuity family]].''
[[Image:DeusExMachina-Knockout.jpg|right|thumb|300px| I'm super, thanks for asking.]]
'''Knock Out''' is a smooth, arrogant Decepticon "medic" with a nasty, narcissistic streak. He considers himself adept at breaking things and fixing them, but professes more skill with the breaking. For complicated jobs, like rehabilitating [[Megatron (Prime)|half-dead Decepticon commanders]], he requires the aid of his burly assistant, [[Breakdown (Prime)|Breakdown]]. On the battlefield, he prefers to wine and dine his prey first, before striking cruelly with his [[Energon prod]], which can disable even some of the biggest Transformers around.

Knock Off isn't all sadism. He has a true [[Side Burn (RID)|aesthete's]] love of fine automobiles, particularly [[Optimus Prime (Prime)|large trucks]]. They remind him of his [[Breakdown (Prime)|partner]].

{{quote|I've done plenty of body work, Starscream, but I'm better at breaking 'em than fixing 'em.|Knock Out on his skill set|"[[Deus ex Machina]]"}}

==Fiction==
===''Prime'' cartoon===
:''Voice actor:'' [[Daran Norris]] (English)
{{spoiler|Deus ex Machina|April 8, 2011}}
[[Starscream (Prime)|Starscream]] called Knock Out and Breakdown to the ''[[Nemesis (Prime)|Nemesis]]'' to help fix [[Megatron (Prime)|Megatron]]. As they were on an [[energon (fuel)|energon]] trail at the time, only Knock Out initially turned up at the ship, and he was shocked at Megatron's condition. When Breakdown did join them, it was with news that he'd discovered an [[Energon Harvester]] was on [[Earth]]. As the [[Autobot]]s had already surrounded the museum the device was in, Knock Out and Breakdown organised a diversion at the front of the building. During the fight, Knock Out attacked [[Optimus Prime (Prime)|Optimus Prime]] with his prod, but was flattened by [[Bulkhead (Prime)|Bulkhead]] after the Autobot was punched by Breakdown. The two Decepticons sped off into the city after they saw that [[Soundwave (Prime)|Soundwave]] had captured the Harvester. Knock Out subsequently accompanied Starscream and Breakdown to an [[energon (fuel)|energon]] seam in [[Greece]]. He and Breakdown got the opportunity to fight Bulkhead again, but came off decidedly second-best, and they both fled after the Harvester was destroyed and the other Autobots turned up. {{storylink|Deus ex Machina}}

==Notes==
*Knock Out's license plate reads "JOFY 892".
*Starscream expresses contempt for Knock Out's automotive [[alternate mode|alt-mode]], which is strange considering that most of [[Vehicon (Prime)|his army]] has been cars up to this point. But some fans have interpreted his "you're one of ''those"'' line in conjunction with Knock Out's wolf-whistling appraisal of Optimus's truck mode and Darran Norris's somewhat campy performance to be clues that Knock Out is [[Transformer romance|gay]]. Moreover, the term "knockout" is commonly used to describe an attractive ''woman,'' and the character's vanity suggests that that correlation is intentional. Make of all this what you will; very little [[Humanization#Sexuality|robotic sexuality]] of any kind has been evident in ''Prime'' so far, outside of a lightly-implied connection between [[Cliffjumper (Prime)|Cliffjumper]] and Arcee.
*Knock Out is the first (and so far only) ''Prime'' Decepticon to debut after the pilot miniseries and survive the experience. Breakdown might be considered to share that distinction, but technically he debuted before the cartoon, as he appeared both in the [[War for Cybertron games|''War for Cybertron'' video games]] and the [[Transformers: Prime (comic)|''Prime'' comic]] first.

[[Category:Cartoon-only Transformers]]
[[Category:Medics]]
[[Category:Prime Decepticons]]

Sentinel (disambiguation)

2010-05-08T00:59:08Z

216.231.37.133: Added Sentinel Major, since the discussion's been quiet for a month and he's still got his own page.

The term '''Sentinel''' can refer to several different things:

*'''1985''' — [[Sentinel (G1)|Sentinels]], the robots employed by [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] in the ''[[Generation 1 (franchise)|Generation 1]]'' [[The Transformers (cartoon)|cartoon]].

*'''1996''' — [[Sentinel (BW)|Sentinel]], the [[Maximal]] defense system from ''[[Beast Wars (franchise)|Beast Wars]]''.

*'''2004''' — [[Sentinel Maximus]], the permanent combination of [[Primal Prime]] and [[Apelinq]] in ''[[Universe (2003 franchise)|Universe]]'' and later the [[Unicron Trilogy]].

*'''2008''' — [[Sentinel Supreme]], a dead [[Transformer]] from ''[[Transformers Animated (franchise)|Transformers Animated]]''.

*'''2010''' — [[Sentinel Major]], the aide to [[Magnum]] from the "[[Wings of Honor]]" series.

*One of the [[Sentinel Prime (disambiguation)|Sentinel Primes]].

*One of the [[Omega Sentinel (disambiguation)|Omega Sentinels]].

{{disambig}}

Tyrwas

2009-12-22T10:50:34Z

216.231.37.133: /* Notes */

[[Image:Beorht02.jpg|right|250px|thumb|You've been...THUNDERSTRUCK!]]
'''Tyrwas''' is the name of a god of the sky worshipped by wizards in ancient Britain on the planet [[Earth]], such as [[Beorht]].

Leaving aside control of thunder, lightning, rain, and clouds, Tyrwas also appears to be responsible for recharging [[Autobot|metal knights]] who, in 543 A.D., lack a suitable power socket into which they can plug themselves. {{storylink|A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court|A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court}}

==Notes==
* Tyrwas seems to be based on [[Wikipedia:Tyr|Tîwaz]], the Norse god of combat and glorious victory from whom we get the English word "Tuesday".

[[Category:Generation 1]]
[[Category:Gods]]

Talk:Sideways (Armada)

2009-07-31T20:50:32Z

216.231.37.133: /* (RID)? */

==Main image==
Hey, wasn't there a different Sideways profile pic at some point? One that wasn't just his head again, which is really redundant with the headshot of him just a further bit down the page? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:27, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
: Fixed! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:47, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
: I changed it earlier because the original pic there was total crap and tiny. Oddly enough I was going to use the Armada cardart (which has exactly the same pic you used), but I was warned against it for some reason. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:11, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

==RID Sideways = Armada Sideways==
I'm gonan throw out this interesting nugget-- RiD Sideways is the same character. Even JAPAN thinks so. Their Robotmasters page lists Sideways 1st appearance as RiD (or was it CR? It's been awhile, and it's moot for the purposes of this Wiki.) The POINT is, Armada is the SECOND toyline Sideways/Doubleface appeared in, not the first.

I noticed this as well. Also, I noticed that [[Axer]]`s page claims that he is the '''ONLY''' character to physically cross over from continuity to continuity. Based on the information from the article this is not likely true. Any objections?--[[User:Autobotx1010|Autobotx1010]] 19:39, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

:Okay, Sideway's page does indeed already say that R.I.D. sideways is the same person, and ditto with the Robot masters version. Scroll down, it's all there in the toy section. Sideways doesn't appear in the fiction for R.I.D., just the toy line, so only the toy was mentioned.
:Plus, Axer's page says he's the ''first'' character to cross continuity, not "only."
:You're joining an argument that is seventeen months old. It's been resolved for a while. --[[User:Atomic spaceman|Atomic spaceman]] 21:55, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

If you assume that RM Sideways is the same character as Armada Sideways (a fair assumption) then it logically follows that RiD Sideways probably is as well. (he's no further removed from the Unicron Trilogy than is the Sideways in Robotmasters version of G1.) The fact that RiD sideway's packaging-partnet was another continuity-hopper lends credibility to this approach-- but the Takara stance that he 1st appeared in the line before Armada is the real clincher for me.

Disagreement? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:31, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I had the RiD toy listed on this page in the beginning, but thought instead to just suggest on both pages that they are probably the same guy. Believe me, I agree with you. But if there's enough support, back in here the RiD version goes. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 05:35, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

RID Sideways was not a Japanese release. RID has no ties to Armada, either.
It's a name reuse, as the reused bio for RID Sideways was saw in Armada does not even relfect the same character. A ninja? Don't think so. RID Sideways was also an Autobot hero. Totally seperate character. Also want to point out that the character is named Doubleface in Japan, severing the ties to any "Sideways" name use for a toy that is US only.
--Bodycount

Hrm. Well for [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/msg/32a177ffd616f66a reference] here's my post on the subject back in the day exploring the issue- the Takara site said CR BTW, though I don't have a link. (It's probably still up, but I have no idea where Takara's RM site is, so...) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:41, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Bodycount- read the damn post I linked to.
*Takara says it's the same character, even with all the renaming.
*Though it didn't come through int he cartoon, Armada Sideways WAS suppsoedly a ninja
*Eat me
:-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:44, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

::Takara also recognized Galaxy Force as part of the Micron Trilogy and lists the characters as the same ones from the previous two shows. Do you also accept that idea? Oh, and I would eat you, but I don't think I can fit that much geek into my stomach.

Man, 2005 used to be the FUTURE, now it's already "back in the day." Anyway, I would agree with Derik the RiD Sideways is most likely the same guy. Unicron can dimension jump after all, and have his servants do the same. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 05:46, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh, crap, Derik! I totally forgot about Takara listing RiD Sideways as RM Doubleface's first toy. Thanks for reminding me, and that's certainly enough to join the two probably-the-same guys into the same page. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 05:48, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

...was this not in the first paragraph on the talk page? Admittedly, the usenet post was SPELLCHECKED, and thus much easier to understand. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:52, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I did edit this page last night, mostly at first I corrected the spelling on the RM section, then added a basic outline for RiD Sideways since there was nothing there when I got here, unaware of the connection between UT and RiD Sideways. However, I understand that somehow the RM Doubleface section got attributed to me. I never claimed that Doubleface was a different character, I just fixed some spelling errors, and I, like most fans, didn't know exactly what the connection was between RiD and Armada Sideways. I am not that useless. -- 21:18, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
:And who are you, anyway? (I only bring it up because your identity is an important part of your statement here.)--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 13:49, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

All this fussin' and fightin' last year when someone could've just looked up Hasbro's online bio for Armada Sideways and seen that it's almost a word-for-word lift from RiD Sideways. Same tech spec numbers, too.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 16:58, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

:Hasbro was just emerging from their steal-big-chunks-of-bios-from-old-bios phase at the time these were published. While strong evidence-in-favor (and admittedly we did overlook it) I doubt that it would have been considered decisive. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:21, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

== Turncoats ==

I think Sideways should retain the turncoat category, his 'actual alliance' being to Unicron nonwithstanding. If I look int he Turncoat category, i expect to see characters who've switched sides, and that's Sideways. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:01, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

:He didn't really switch sides. He was working for Unicron the entire time, and that job has him ''posing'' as both an Autobot and a Decepticon. If that's being a turncoat, then we need to put Punch, Armada Jetfire and Armada Scavenger in there as well, because they were also Decepticons at some point. Imagine three factions, A, B and C. If a guy from side A goes undercover as a B and later "betrayes" be and "becomes" a C, his true alligence is still with A, as he never was actually a B or C anyway. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 21:20, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

::And all those American soldiers who went and fight for the British weren't turncoats either- because that's where their loyalties always lay?
::That's the ''origin of the term''.
::I realize there's a difference between a turncoat and a double-agent... but sideways seems like he belongs in both somehow. :p Armada thrust, I assume, is a turncoat? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:33, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
:::Uh, if Americans were fighting for the British in the American Revolution, then I don't see how their allegiance wasn't to Britain instead of America. I know you like to be incoherent, Derik, but come on now. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 23:54, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

== Bad Luck ==

In Transformers Cybertron Sideways had alot of bad luck. IG he fell into alot of traps.

Yes, yes he did. THAT made me laugh like I was 10. Which I'm not. Oh, and sign your posts, for the love of [[Primus]]. [[User:BUMBLEBEE|The 'Bee :)]] 19:37, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

== RiD Art? ==

I wince a little to even ask but... does any art of his RiD incarnation exist? --Some jerk who didn't sign his name!
: Nope! RID stuff didn't have packaging art, just retouched toy photography. So since that version never got any fiction, d'oh well. Which is just as well, since the Armada guy probably belongs up there anyway. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:01, 7 April 2009 (EDT)

== RM Section ==

The Robotmasters section has this note;
{{note|In this continuity family, the character is known as "Doubleface," which is one of his Japanese names. Since Robot Masters is a Japanese franchise with no English-language equivalent, we do not use the English name "Sideways" in this section.}}
...huh? We're not using English names for characters that ''have them'' because the fiction was published in Japan? That seems not-right. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:03, 13 April 2009 (EDT)

:I added that note to account for the way the section was already written, under the assumption that it was written correctly. I have no strong feelings on the matter. '''Edit:''' Okay, I've got some feelings now! I'm thinking you're right, Derik, on the logic that if we use "Doubleface" for the RM section, then we would also need to use "Convoy," "Beast Convoy," etc. I think the reason the section was written the way it was is that the author was preserving a veneer of ambiguity over the character, noting that he only CALLED himself by this particular name, for whatever value you choose to give that. But at this point is there any reason to cast that doubt? I don't know RM well enough to say for sure, but the discussion above and what I've gathered about the nature of RM suggest to me that there's no good reason to treat him differently than all of the other old-characters-in-new-bodies that are RM's stock in trade. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 23:28, 13 April 2009 (EDT)
:: I wrote the section using "Doubleface" because that fiction has no English-language equivalent. I'm not super-attached to using his Japanese name there. I just thought it might be appropriate. Part of the reason is that we call his toy "Doubleface" in the respective toy section. We don't "translate" that into his English name, so it felt weird doing it for Robot Masters. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 23:51, 13 April 2009 (EDT)
:::The Fiction and Toy sections have different naming rules, though (or so I'd gathered). Each individual toy is labeled as whatever is on its packaging, period. But for fiction, we homogenize as much as possible (hence calling RM Convoy "Optimus Prime"). So.... yeah, I'm going to change that section. Also, while I'm at it - ''Robot Masters'' isn't its own continuity family, is it? The fiction is pretty sparsely documented here, but what I've been able to scrounge up says it's in some G1 universe or other. Characters are just warping like crazy from across time and space to a G1 Earth in the year 2004. So I'm going to change the continuity-family label too. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 00:27, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
::::Yeah, RM definitely isn't its own continuity family. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:42, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
:::The name change is especially bothersome to me here because... RM Doubleface is the toy that explicitly established that all the Doublefaces were the same character. "This guy first appeared in RiD."
:::While on the subject... I thought that Cybertron Sideways was actually an AU version of Armada sideways or something... isn't Planet X actually from a parallel universe? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:46, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
::::No, Ask Vector Prime makes it clear he is the same guy. He just happens to be from a parallel dimension, originally. Or... well, wait. Did the Planet X attack happen before or after Gigantian got moved to that parallel dimension? Eh. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:48, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
:::::Oh, that makes sense, I guess. Assuming he was in the RiD universe "before" armada (and he'd have to be, his fiction is a straight line afterward) there's really no reason the Armadaverse has to be his "home" universe.
:::::...I feel like this might benefit from an "Origins" section explaining that unlike other characters, this fiction section is all the same iteration of the same guy. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:52, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
::::::I'm working one up right now, though I'm putting it in "Notes". You can do as you wish with it when I'm done. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 00:59, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
:::::::That's good to-- possibly a better way of presenting it too. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:01, 14 April 2009 (EDT)

==TV Magazine?==
There was a Robotmasters story featured in TV Magazine as well? Anyone have scans? [[User:Lightsyderthe2nd|Lightsyderthe2nd]] 10:05, 1 May 2009 (EDT)

==(RID)?==

Why isn't it Sideways (Armada)? Because he's more prominent in the Unicron Trilogy, and if I recall RID Sideways was a toy only guy. [[User:Gearshift|Gearshift]] 15:01, 29 July 2009 (EDT)
:Because the RID Sideways toy was later confirmed to be the same character as Armada Sideways. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 15:31, 29 July 2009 (EDT)
::Gearshift isn't contesting that point. He knows they're the same guy; he wants to know why we're not using the most intuitively ''prominent'' identifier. The answer - and I know we had a discussion about this article's title somewhere; I think it got lost in the crash - is that we decide what to use for a disambiguation-parenthetical by starting with [[:Help:Disambiguation#Disambiguation suffixes|one simple rule]]: the first franchise the character appeared in. Sideways appeared in RID first, and there are no other RID Sidewayses. So that's that. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 19:44, 30 July 2009 (EDT)
:::Just to be clear, if e-hobby were to retroactively decide that one of the seekers from MtMtE was, in fact, the same guy, Sideways, we'd rename him Sideways (G1), right? --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 19:55, 30 July 2009 (EDT)
::::No, because he was RID and Armada and Cybertron before he was G1. Actually, he already DOES exist in the G1 timeline, thanks to Robot Masters. This is an area we go real-world by, not in-fiction. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:23, 30 July 2009 (EDT)
:::::But I thought the confirmation that RID Sideways was the same as Armada Sideways came after Armada ended. So, how would that be any different? --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 20:32, 30 July 2009 (EDT)
::::::His RiD bio was written to mesh with the upcoming Armada character... he was ''always'' intended to be the same guy. We just didn't get it ''explicitly'' stated until Robotmasters.
::::::And I'm not sure Siph is right here. If we were to get ''a'' Seeker named Sideways who ''was'' this same guy and showed up in G1 in new fiction, then he'd still be Sideways (RiD). But if the black seeker in MtMtE (you only see his shoulder and head, he's hiding like Waldo!) was to to be ''revealed'' to be this same Sideways, then I think he'd move to "Sideways (G1)" because the G1 cartoon would be his earliest chronological appearance.
::::::@Gearshift... IIRC, in early 2008 we constructed a fully-thought-out justification why it would be consistent with our notability guidelines (we have them, they just '''very rarely''' come into play) why it would make sense to keep Sideways at "Sideways (Armada)" if we ever got a second character with his name.
::::::And then then [[Sideways (ROTF)]] was announced, the article just got moved to "Sideways (RID)" with very little discussion, and almost no objection. (I'm not quite sure why, but I speculate that Animated's flogging of just-like-G1-but-not characters combined with the increasing number of continuity-jumping characters just eroded a lot of the resistance people had to using the 'proper' disambig.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:42, 30 July 2009 (EDT)
:::::::Actually, even if a black G1 Seeker was revealed to be the same guy, he still would be Sideways RID, since we established that toy releases take precedence in terms of first franchise. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 20:50, 30 July 2009 (EDT)
::::::::I'm blanking, could you cite me an example? (Wing Dagger type situations don't count.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:52, 30 July 2009 (EDT)
::::::::http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/franchise-ordering-discussion.htm (Yes I've been too lazy to figure out how to format the sucker to get it reposted somewhere on the wiki.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 20:59, 30 July 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::OK, but what if there was G1 fiction that repurposed an existing G1 toy, say Doubleclouder, as the same old lovable Sideways? Then would we move him to Sideways (G1) since the first toy of him was in the G1 line? --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 22:49, 30 July 2009 (EDT)
::::::::::''My'' understanding would be no, since he was never officially released as that toy, and the toys still take precedence. The fiction only counts if there's no official toy to work from. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:09, 30 July 2009 (EDT)
::::::::::: Fair. But if some new fiction retroactively made, say Beast Wars Megatron the same character as Go-Bots Megatron, then we'd move Megatron (BW) to Megatron (G2) since that that would be an exactly analogous situation to Sideways. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 23:39, 30 July 2009 (EDT)
::::::::::Probably the article would be at "Doubleclouder" with the "Sideways (RID)" stuff moved there. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 23:43, 30 July 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::::I don't think Jeysie was suggesting that he ''was'' Doubleclouder... rather than the DC toy was repurposed-within-the-same-continuity-family to represent two separate characters, like the G2 Cyberjets Air Raid and Aero Raid.
:::::::::::If a Japanese guidebook revealed no-appearances G2 Go-bot "Double Clutch (G2)" to be [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4a__-u6czw#t=4m20s Sandstorm's unnamed friend from Fight or Flee], we'd move it to "Double Clutch (G1)" with no real debate-- the character was around by that name in G1. It's that simple, right? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:00, 31 July 2009 (EDT)
::::::::::::''"Beginning. Middle. End. Facts. Details. Condense. Plot. Tell it."'' ~'''Agent Simmons''' Yay or nay to the idea of a move? [[User:Gearshift|Gearshift]] 06:49, 31 July 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::::::Nay, he was an RID toy first. For the rationale, read the page I linked to. (Basically, I made the same sort of argument you did in your edit summary, and we hashed it out and realized that just doesn't work logistically after all.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 08:10, 31 July 2009 (EDT)

See, I don't get that at all, Jeysie. With Sideways, we've got basically two different characters with the same name in two different franchises. A third franchise comes along and declares them to be the same character, so we decide to disambig by the earliest chronological toy. (Authorial intent on those original tech specs is dubious, since many times name reuse comes with similar phraseology across franchises with no intent that the toy represents the same character.) If we think that this is enough to move the disambiguation to the first toy, then that should be the rule for all characters retroactively declared to be the same guy. If BW Megatron is declared cannonically to have been the same dude as Go-Bots Megatron from the earlier G2 franchise, then we should move him to Megatron (G2).

A corollary to this is that, since we disambig by the TOY of first franchise for characters who are retroactively the same across timelines, if we need to disambig Unicron for whatever reason he'll be Unicron (Armada). (OH, I'm so tempted to actually stick in a non-Unicron character named Unicron into one of my books just to see that argument.) --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 11:20, 31 July 2009 (EDT)

:Personally, I don't like that Robot Masters can retcon the Armada continuity. I think that ''in the Robot Masters continuity'', RID Sideways = Armada Sideways, but ''in the Armada continuity,'' RID Sideways ≠ Armada Sideways. Saying RID Axer came from G1 is different, because it isn't really retconning any G1 fiction except to say that once all the G1 fiction was over with, he hopped into the RID universe. Having said that, I think RID is a little bit of an exception. The toyline was sort of used as a catch-all "Universe"-type concept with a loose regard to continuity. It has "Air Attack Optimus Primal" for example. He is taken as the Optimus Primal from the Beast Machines era. If he is the Optimus Primal his bio draws RID into the Beast Wars's history.
:As for your Megatron example, Go-Bots Megatron is G1 Megatron. The bio says Megatron took this new car altmode so Megatron (BW) would move to Megatron (G1). Your Unicron example shows why the toy should not necessarily take precedence. It should be the first real-world appearance, be it toy or fiction. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 11:48, 31 July 2009 (EDT)
::Thing is... they're not really all that different as characters. The RID and Armada bios are if not 1:1 exact, they're so damn close they might as well be. This was a source of confusion as soon as Sideways's Armada bio was revealed, and it's possible that the production scheduling meant Armada Sideways was developed first despite being released second. And we were still kind of not used to the whole "multiverse" thing yet. At any rate, I frankly advise against trying to nail down a standard for bizarre hypotheticals. Ours is a fucked-up franchise, and trying to predict how to handle the next strange once-in-a-lifetime mutation is really an exercise in futility. A lot of what we do really does have to fall under a case-by-case with the hope that general guidelines will suffice. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 12:38, 31 July 2009 (EDT)
:::Hey, that's the answer I wanted all along - let's go case-by-case and let common sense prevail. That being the case, wouldn't the 'common sense' answer be to move Sideways back to Armada, which is where the bulk of his characterization comes from and where most fans know him from? --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 13:23, 31 July 2009 (EDT)
::::I think any fan who really knows about Sideways in Armada must by definition be hardcore enough to have known he was the RID character already. I mean, he's a second-stringer from a cartoon most people hated from 7 years ago. With that in mind, I think the risk of actually confusing anybody is very, very slight. Besides, part of Sideways' characterization prominently featured in our article is that "self-sufficient ninja" shtick, which really was introduced in RID, and there is simply no way to NOT have the article introduction mention his RID incarnation. So once we've acknowledged it, what's wrong with keeping it in his name? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 13:42, 31 July 2009 (EDT)

:This whole "toys first" thing is total nonsense. It stems from the discussion Jeysie linked to (thanks for saving it! Do you have the other pieces too? We need those back here...), where Siph was (over)reacting to Jeysie's claim that the toys didn't really matter at ''all.'' In the end, what actually matters is FRANCHISE, which applies to BOTH TOYS AND FICTION. Jim, your example is a perfect case: If we ever needed to disambiguate [[Unicron]], making him [[Unicron (Armada)]] because that was the franchise that first sold him as a toy is ridiculous. He was created as a character in the 1986 movie, which was released under the G1 franchise. THAT'S his franchise of origin.
:Your questioning of the (RID) on this article is also very keen: What does "origin" mean when you involve cross-franchise retconning? I don't have a clear answer, though I'm on the side of (RID) because the retcon was such a very short leap, due to the nontrivially-similar bios and the association the RID character had with [[Axer|another dimension-hopper]] from the get-go. This is admittedly a judgement call, and the hypothetical example of retconning a G1 character who has no inherent connection (the "black Seeker") into this Sideways would be a much more challenging case. Good thing we don't have to deal with it yet!
:Though I'm not as dismissive of "bizarre hypotheticals" as Siph is. The idea of putting a parenthetical on this article was at one point a hypothetical that we had a valuable discussion around. I think Derik is misremembering the outcome of that; I recall it ending with more support for (RID), which I thought was why the actual move was so uncontroversial.
:- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 16:29, 31 July 2009 (EDT)
::There's the [http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/insecticon-swarm-talk.htm Insection Swarm talk page] and the [http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/franchise-ordering.htm main Sandbox notes], if that's what you mean by "other parts".
::And, what do you mean "toys first thing is total nonsense"? I distinctly remember that I came down on the side of determining franchise of origin by the fiction, everyone yelled at me, we had the whole discussion, and determined that remaining with determining franchise of origin via the toys was the best way to handle it.
::If people suddenly start changing to the reverse and taking up my initial argument of determining franchise by the fiction, I swear I'm gonna kick y'all out of irritation until you make up your freakin' minds. :P --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:40, 31 July 2009 (EDT)
:::As I said in that discussion, the toys-vs.-fiction thing is a false dichotomy. Take the toys entirely out of the equation, and there are still franchises. Every piece of TF fiction - be it comic, TV show, book, whatever - is released with some kind of franchise-identifier (usually the logo on the cover or in the intro sequence). It doesn't matter HOW a character appears first, whether it's a toy or a drawing on a page or a 3D rendering onscreen; what matters is what franchise that appearance is under. - [[Special:Contributions/216.231.37.133|216.231.37.133]] 16:50, 31 July 2009 (EDT)

Talk:The Transformers (franchise)

2009-05-12T20:36:11Z

216.231.37.133: /* Move */

So I'm looking over the various storybook stuff that Steve-o has, and finding that we don't have much of it, and what we do have is pretty much lost in the void. We need to tie all this stuff together. The Franchise Navigation box should include some kind of link to it -- even if that means we have to split our current books page into four or five pieces, by franchise. Each series of books should have its own navigation chain, leading back to the publisher's page. So, something like this:Franchise nav box --> Books --> Publishers --> Individual titles
Objections to the splitting-up-the-books page? (heck, it should be a category anyway, as opposed to a multi-franchise list.) -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 20:48, 4 December 2008 (EST)
:Nope. Go for it. I've been thinking for a while that once you factor in all the Armada stuff... man, that's a lot of books. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 04:55, 5 December 2008 (EST)

== Move ==
As Thomas Jefferson once said, "Buggery is the Genus, of which Sodomy and Bestiality are the species."In that hierarchical mind, "Generation 1" isn't a franchise-- or at least not as we're treating it. It's an umbrella franchise, just like the Unicron Trilogy or the live-action film series. I think that, in the long term, it'll make our lives easier if our treatment reflects that. -[[User:Derik|Derik]][[User talk:Derik|Talk]] 11:39, 11 February 2009 (EST)
* Generation 1 (umbrella franchise)
* The Transformers (franchise)
* Headmasters
* Masterforce
* ''etc...''
* Generation 2

:The Japanese stuff, certainly. All of the toys in those were sold with the plain "Transformers" label. G2, I'm not so sure, but if you feel so…. (What about Machine Wars?) [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 11:53, 11 February 2009 (EST)

:I think you're right that we need to address the far-reaching uses of the term "Generation 1", but I disagree with your proposal for a few reasons:
:# "The Transformers" is an outdated term for the pre-G2 franchise. Yes, when it came out, that was its name, but the moment "Generation 2" was created, "The Transformers" went from being a specific franchise to being the name of the overall brand. Since then, countless official sources have confirmed the use of "Generation 1" to mean "pre-G2". ''[[Transformers Generations|Generations]]'' and ''[[Transformers: The Ultimate Guide|The Ultimate Guide]]'' are two I can cite immediately, and I'm sure there are far, far more. (For another example of a later name superseding a previous one, note that we don't call ''[[Universe (2003 comic)#Transformers Universe: Featuring The Wreckers|Universe: Featuring the Wreckers]]'' "[[Departure|The Wreckers]]" or "[[Betrayal|Enter the Wreckers]]".)
:# What you're calling "Generation 1 (umbrella franchise)" is actually just a continuity family, as is the Unicron Trilogy. The 2008 ''[[Universe (2008 franchise)|Universe]]'' is a true umbrella franchise, where Hasbro is actively using a new brand to subsume pre-existing ones. The big-tent G1 and the UT are both more artificial constructs on our part to classify storytelling trends.
:# If we do create [[The Transformers (franchise)]] at all, it should redirect to (or even replace) [[Transformers brand]]. Making them two different things is confusing. I also believe that we SHOULD have a [[Generation 1 (continuity family)]] to cover all of the far-reaching uses of the term. [[Generation 1 (franchise)]] can remain as it is, and all of the bases are covered with a minimum of confusion.
:How does that sound?
:- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 23:16, 29 March 2009 (EDT)

:If I may throw in my two cents, most of the fandom refers to "The Transformers" as "G1" or "Generation 1". In fact, the only time I've heard anyone call it "The Transformers" is when they specifically mean the G1 cartoon. I think that "The Transformers" stuff should re-direct to the "Generation 1" equivalent.
:- [[User:Monty_Prime|Monty Prime]]
::<strike>The whole "G1" thing needs some sorting out. Part of what we have to decide is if the wiki is going to consider the Japanese series (Headmasters, Maserforce, etc.) as "franchises." I just found out that they technically aren't because the toys were all released simply as "The Transformers." But we have franchise pages for them. (see [[The Headmasters (franchise)]], [[Super-God Masterforce (franchise)]], etc). I happen to think it would be ''extremely'' useful to consider them franchises even if it is fudging Transformers history a bit. They have their own names and logos and whatnot, so I think it depends a little on what you consider a "franchise" to be. Is it just how the toys are packaged? </strike>
::I agree with Derik's grouping except I wouldn't group G2 under the G1 umbrella franchise. the G1 continuity family, yes.
::*[[Generation 1 (continuity family)]]
::**[[Generation 1 (umbrella franchise)]]
::***[[The Transformers (franchise)]]
::****[[Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers]]
::****[[Transformers 2010]]
::***[[The Headmasters (franchise)]]
::***[[Super-God Masterforce (franchise)]]
::***etc.
::***[[Operation Combination (franchise)]]
::**[[Generation 2 (franchise)]]
::**[[Classics (2006)]]
::Finally, clearing this up would help finalize [[Transformers_Wiki_talk:Community_Portal#Franchise_identifier_consistency|another open issue the wiki has]]. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 15:01, 12 May 2009 (EDT)

:"''Part of what we have to decide is if the wiki is going to consider the Japanese series (Headmasters, Maserforce, etc.) as "franchises." I just found out that they technically aren't because the toys were all released simply as "The Transformers."''" 
:Uh... no, that's not true. I've got Japanese packaging, and it's got the individual franchise logos on them. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 15:35, 12 May 2009 (EDT)
::Oops. I was thinking of Beast Wars II and Neo. Carry on... - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:08, 12 May 2009 (EDT)
:''most of the fandom refers to "The Transformers" as "G1" or "Generation 1". ''
:"Generation 1" is ''not'' the name of a franchise, or a television show, or a toyline, or a cartoon. Those things were named "The Transformers", and there's really no valid reason to call them anything else. Just because it makes them a little tougher to disambiguate is not enough reason to call them something that isn't their name.
:It hardly seems necessary to point out how terrible an idea it is to rename something from its ''official name'' based on "what the fandom does". -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 15:51, 12 May 2009 (EDT)
::Please see my point #1 above. There are tons of official sources telling us that what was once called "The Transformers" is now retroactively "Generation 1". And if you don't think that's a valid interpretation, then please explain what actually IS happening when the back of a ''Universe'' package says "GENERATION 1: The Epic Original". Is Hasbro somehow LYING about the validity of the term as a substitute for what was once just "The Transformers"?
::(And, to nip a tangent in the bud, I will clarify now that I'm only making this argument in relation to the G1 ''franchise,'' not the individual expressions of it (like the cartoon, comics, etc.) The official sources I'm using as evidence all use the term to refer to the franchise as a whole, as contrasted with G2, MW, BW, etc.)
::- [[Special:Contributions/216.231.37.133|216.231.37.133]] 16:36, 12 May 2009 (EDT)

Talk:Hasbro Q&A/May 2009: Question submission

2009-04-29T17:58:20Z

216.231.37.133: /* Relevancy to the wiki */

==Question from an unregistered user==
Will the Transformers Animated cartoon and toyline last or will it end in May or June due to the Revenge of the Fallen movie and toyline?

-WebcomicsGirl115 (Millie)
09:44 AM, April 26, 2009

==Regarding the Cyclonus question==
Walky - Cyclonus with a new headsculpt as Dai Atlas. That is the only valid response. [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 10:59, 26 April 2009 (EDT)
::NO RETOOLING --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 12:22, 26 April 2009 (EDT)
:"His Armada" - light blue. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 11:17, 26 April 2009 (EDT)

==Editing problem==
I have registered and I can't edit the page! :/ ~''Gearshift''
: If you are a very new editor it won't let you edit the page for a while. Paste your question here, and we can move it there. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 12:23, 26 April 2009 (EDT)

Okay then. '''''EDIT: I HAVE EDITED MY QUESTION!'''''

''Begin question''

Bumblebee! He's a good character, liked by many. But sadly, ''Animated Voyager Hydrodive Bumblebee'' has been delayed/cancelled, along with a group of others! He's not a new character, and the toy has been revealed to the public, so could you please confirm whether he is cancelled or merely delayed, and if he will have a release in 2009?
Also, this mould has HIGH retool value. Have you considered a Wasp or Cliffjumper retool? But mostly Wasp, because Wasp hasn't got his earth mode as a toy yet.

''End question''

~''Gearshift''

== Moo! ==
Alas, I can also not edit the main page... just reregistered after being unable to register my wikia name (despite being able to log into wikia)...

In the Universe line, we have recently had redecos of molds going bsck to Armada, but no further. What are the reasons that toys from RID, BM, BW snd esrlier haven't been brought back, while there are two different decos of Cybertron Defense Scattorshot on the shelves at once? With the 25th Anniversary Celebration in Universe, having BW not be represented by a BW mold seems odd at first glance.
--[[User:Gus|Gus]] 03:57, 27 April 2009 (EDT)

== RotF ==

:''Will the Revenge Of The Fallen toyline, much like its Movie predecessor, feature redecos of non-Movie molds in its assortments?''
I dunno if this one should go on there, because all it'll get is a "Yes." due to Superion and Bruticus.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 14:22, 26 April 2009 (EDT)
:Good point. Better edit it. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 14:59, 26 April 2009 (EDT)

== Gobots ==

''To what extent is Hasbro allowed to use Tonka Go-Bots characters in new toys? Assuming the trademark to a character's name is available are you limited to homages, or are you allowed to use the character itself?--RosicrucianTalk 20:18, 25 April 2009 (EDT) ''
:Dude. [[Bug Bite (G1)|Bugbite]]. (Also, [[Fracture]] was going to be the Renegade until WalMart said they wanted their exclusives in the Movie line) --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 20:02, 26 April 2009 (EDT)
::So far all we've really had are wink-and-a-nudge homages. Unless I'm mistaken, even Bug Bite neglected to mention certain things to make nice. Unless that connection was made a ''lot'' more concrete in the club fiction. Heck, the figures that spawned Withered Hope couldn't even be called by name when they were first released. ''Something'' seems to have changed, and I'm certainly not sure where the line is anymore.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 20:06, 26 April 2009 (EDT)
As I understand it, Hasbro owns the intelligent properties (I believe that's the correct term; please correct me if I'm mistaken) of the Go-Bots but not the designs themselves. This is a good question because I would love to see a Tux toy; it would be sad if we couldn't have the top hat included. - [[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 20:44, 26 April 2009 (EDT)

== G1 Transformers cartoons (1984-1987) ==

''Will Hasbro be releasing any more DVDs with episodes from the 1984-1987 G1 Transformers cartoon series with future Transformers toys and/or seperately?'' - [[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 20:38, 26 April 2009 (EDT)

== Beast Wars/ Beast maschines in Europe ==

"This question may concern more the European branch of Hasbro and the part linked to the television distribution, but why was the third season of Beast wars (Animutants) and the whole beast machines show never aired in French, and subsequently, can we expect one day a DVD release of the French version of Beast Wars. Thanks.--GUIGUI 13:33, 26 April 2009 (EDT)"

The show got canceled because it was not popular enough, that's all of it. About the DVD of beast machines, the Belgium version of the 2 DVD sets has french subtitles if you want to see it.--[[User:Sunjumper|Sunjumper]] 14:46, 27 April 2009 (EDT)

== Animated Constructicons ==

<s>Any news on Animated Constructicons? They've been featured a lot in the show for folks that don't have any toys yet.[[User:Excise|Excise]] 09:22, 28 April 2009 (EDT)</s>
:Since someone else has gotten the Animated Constructions question in just before me, I'll change mine: Any hope for a Shockwave-as-raygun toy on the horizon? Possibly in the Universe line? [[User:Excise|Excise]] 08:24, 29 April 2009 (EDT)

==Relevancy to the wiki==
Will relevancy to the wiki be a factor in which questions are chosen? It occurred to me after writing my question that the answer would really have no application here. It's just something I'd like to hear from Hasbro about, and this is the only fan site I'm really actively involved in, so... - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 19:16, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
: I'd be unsure about using it, not for relevancy, but because I don't think Hasbro even wants to acknowledge that they see specific fanstuff online, and so would decline to answer like they have at least once per session thus far. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 20:15, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
:: I can tell you what the answer is 98% likely to be just based on my experience in other fandoms: Namely, that your pessimistic view is correct, and Hasbro has to avoid looking at fan stuff so as to maintain deniability if they ever come up with any idea similar to what a fan already did. (Ditto for anyone else creating Transformers stuff, too.)
::I guess they could have someone who watches the fandom and reports in very general terms that Acid Storm-based repaints are popular or something, but I'd highly suspect that they can't look at specific designs or ideas. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:15, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
:::Yeah. I'd guess it's the negative one personally - while most TF fans would be completely blown away that Hasbro lifted their thing, there's always some jerks who would either a: demand actual payment from hasbro for STEALING MY IDEA TO REPAINT THIS TOY AS THIS OTHER TOY or b: decide that they were king fucking shit of fandom mountain and lord it over everyone else. both are obnoxious. (man, i WISH hasbro had actually stolen my idea and repainted various spychangers as the stunticons. oh well.) [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 07:56, 29 April 2009 (EDT)
::::And yet there's ''Universe'' Darkwind. Has Kyde ever said anything about that? The reason I want to get some sort of answer from Hasbro is that I want to know if putting ideas online is effectively shooting myself in the foot. If when I, say, write a post describing what my ideal BC-exclusive set would be, that actually LOWERS the chance of it being made, then I'll keep quiet. But if there's no actual danger, then I'd like to know. - [[Special:Contributions/216.231.37.133|216.231.37.133]] 13:58, 29 April 2009 (EDT)

Mech

2009-04-18T19:08:05Z

216.231.37.133: /* Star Wars Transformers toy bios */

{{mainpic}}

:''A mech is a piece of technology in the [[Crossovers]] franchise.''

A '''mech''' (sometimes also called a '''battle suit''') is a transforming robot operated by a human or humanoid. There are many different designs, and their [[Alternate mode|alt-modes]] range from [[:Image:MarvelcrossoversSpider-man.jpg|motorcycles]] to [[:Image:SWTFtoy-VaderDeathStar.JPG|space stations]].

{{note|This is not the only definition of "mech" in [[Transformers brand|''Transformers'']] fiction; see [[#Notes|Notes]] below.}}

==Fiction==
===''Star Wars Transformers'' toy bios===
Technology was developed during the Clone Wars<ref name="ClonePilot">''[[Star Wars]] Transformers'' [[Clone Pilot]] ARC-170 Starfighter on-package [[bio]] ([http://www.tfu.info/2006/SWTF/ClonePilot/clonepilot.htm transcription at TFU.info])</ref> that allowed vehicles to "morph" into a vaguely humanoid "mech mode."<ref name="Falcon">''Star Wars Transformers'' [[Millennium Falcon]] on-package bio ([http://www.tfu.info/2007/SWTF/Chewbacca/chewbacca.htm transcription at TFU.info])</ref> In some cases, this transformation was guided (perhaps even created) by the use of the [[Force]].<ref>Various ''Star Wars Transformers'' on-package bios, including [[Darth Vader]] ([http://www.tfu.info/2006/SWTF/DarthVader/darthvader.htm transcription]), [[Luke Skywalker]] ([http://www.tfu.info/2007/SWTF/LukeSkywalker/lukeskywalker.htm transcription]), [[Emperor Palpatine]] ([http://www.tfu.info/2006/SWTF/EmperorPalpatine/emperorpalpatine.htm transcription]), and others.</ref> In others, it was a more standard push-button affair.<ref name="ATAT">''Star Wars Transformers'' AT-AT Driver on-package bio ([http://www.tfu.info/2007/SWTF/AT-ATDriver/at-atdriver.htm transcription at TFU.info])</ref> Both the Republic fighters<ref name="ClonePilot" /> and the Separatists<ref>''Star Wars Transformers'' General Grievous on-package bio ([http://www.tfu.info/2006/SWTF/GeneralGrievous/generalgrievous.htm transcription at TFU.info])</ref> employed this technology, and even bounty hunters<ref>''Star Wars Transformers'' Jango Fett on-package bio ([http://www.tfu.info/2007/SWTF/JangoFett/jangofett.htm transcription at TFU.info])</ref> got in on it. It also featured in the war between the Empire<ref name="ATAT" /> and the Rebellion,<ref name="Falcon" /> again by both sides.

===Marvel ''Crossovers'' toy bios===
[[Reed Richards|Mr. Fantastic]] and [[Iron Man]] used alien technology to create mechs for their fellow [[:Category:Superheroes|superheroes]].<ref>''Crossovers'' hero on-package bios</ref> In response, the villain [[Doctor Doom]] created battle suits for [[Venom (Crossovers)|Venom]] and [[Carnage]].<ref>''Crossovers'' villain on-package bios</ref>

==Toys==

{{charstubtoys}}

==Notes==
* Many of the ''Star Wars'' bios are worded in a way that sounds as though the characters ''themselves'' are turning into spaceships. However, several others make a distinction between the character and the vehicle, and all of those toys come with mini-figures of the actual pilots/drivers. (In contrast, the Marvel bios are unambiguous about the mechs being mere suits, but no pilot/driver figures are included.)
* The term "mech" has also been used in some ''Transformers'' fiction as a substitute for "person" when talking about a robot. The ''[[Timelines]]'' text stories in particular tend to employ this usage, as well as the ''[[Micromasters]]'' comic series. This should NOT be confused with the [[fanon]] usage of "mech" to mean "male robot" (as opposed to "femme" meaning "female robot"). "Mech" has never been portrayed as gender-specific in the [[canon]].

==References==
<references />

[[Category:Crossovers]]
[[Category:Technology]]

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal/Archive10

2009-03-24T01:06:22Z

216.231.37.133: Restored from tfwikicache.tar.gz cache, run through abates's convertor.

{{bookworm|3|Thread-indentation was restored badly.}}

==Question about mass-produced "fan" toys==
Hi there, transfolkerinos.

Just a little thing that I though might prove vaguely controversial, so I thought I'd raise it here before unilaterally adding it and getting into a tiresome edit war with anyone.

Topic is: mass-produced non-Hasbro/Takara "Fan" toys, ala Unicron.Com's Golden Disc sets, Vector Sigma key (and other ''Beast Machines'' accessories) and ImpossibleToys' products such as the Diaclone-scale Sparkplug & Spike, Energon Cubes and the marvellous "Quint-01" Quintesson Judge Figure.

What I want to know is if I can add info on these products on the relevant pages, or if that's gonna disrupt some rule over official-ness. Before anyone gets too excited, I'll just say right off the bat that I'm proposing in each case to CLEARLY denote that they are non-official products, and they probably should even be listed separately in the "Triva" sections of each relevant page, to further distance them from listings of official products (although, in most cases, there ''aren't'' official versions. Which is kinda the point...).

The only argument against listing them that I can imagine is simply that, obviously, they're not official HasTak products and therefore, in a wacky kind of sense, "not canon". However, my argument ''for'' including them is threefold:

1] Unlike kitbashing or other customs, these items are mass-produced with high quality control, akin to an official product. (Yes, I ''know'' that unlicensed repros/knock-offs are mass-produced too, but the distinction here is that items like the Quintesson are original creations/moulds rather than substitutes for a previously-released product).

2] These products are all designed to represent accessories or characters from the fictions that had (hitherto) never been given official representations, thus filling a gap.

3] Perhaps most importantly, this stuff has been sold openly at BotCon in recent years, so even though the Collector's Club isn't personally hawking it, I don't think it would be much of a stretch to say that Hasbro is aware of this product and tacitly permits its sale and manufacture, when it could just as easily sue their asses for copyright infringement if they wanted to. The fact that they ''haven't'' and have actually let these companies sell their stuff at their official Con seems to me to be the rather meaningful turning of a rather large, not-so-blind eye. It also would rather seem to indicate that they have no immediate plans of their own to make official versions of this stuff (apart from Vector Sigma, years after Unicron.com did it), and are happy to let these well-set up little companies do their thing and keep the fans happy.

Anywayz, I just thought I'd float this here before adding to any of the pages myself. Let me know what y'all think.

Cheers, [[User:PacifistPrime|PacifistPrime]]. 25th October 2007.

: No. No, no, and no. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 03:38, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
: Um, okaaay. Care to elaborate? I reiterate my suggestion that these items be '''clearly''' marked as non-official, and that the descriptions be placed only in '''Trivia''' sections. May I ask what's the harm? [[User:PacifistPrime|PacifistPrime]]. 25th October 2007.
: Part of the problem with including unofficial "bootleg" toys is that it opens the door for, well, all bootlegs. And that'd just be ridiculous. Ever been to a Big Lots? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 04:16, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
:No, can't say I have. I take it that's some North American chain?
:Anyway, I do take your point. It ''would'' be ridiculous to include bootleg toys, I agree. But the very fact that we already have an article on [[Knockoff|Knockoffs]] (not to mention all manner of "ridiculous" minutiae of fan-lifesyle. [[Seafood Louis]] anyone? [[Blastification]]? All very amusing, but hardly "official") suggests to me that we should be capable of ''some'' restrained mention of '''prominent''' fan-manufactured items.
:And again, can't we draw some distinction between knock-offs of existing official products and completely original works based on major fiction-only characters & objects? I really don't see the harm in discreet mentions of clearly-acknowledged-as-unofficial products when they've been mass-marketed at Habsro's own offical Con. Surely you'd concede that there's a GULF of difference between that and this "Big Lots" place...?
:[[User:PacifistPrime|PacifistPrime]]. 25th October 2007.
:Yes, but ''those'' articles are confined to their respective pages. You were proposing listing unofficial merchandise on the relevant pages. (Under the Quintesson page, etc.)
:We'd probably still resist adding an 'unofficial toys' page because it'd quickly degenerate into "what qualifies as...", but I bet you'd have more luck proposing ''that''.
:(We ''should'' have a page where we can stick the Action Master Breakdown, WST Dinobots and the Star Saber Minicon recolors... we've just kida avoided it because it seems like a collosal headache waiting to happen.) Reemember- if you start such a page pick a clear standard about what's mass-produced 'enough' to qualify. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:39, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, that's a compromise position I was going to fall back on, yes.

Would it really be such a crapfest, though? I dunno, maybe I'm a little more ignorant of this topic than I thought, but what sort of "ridiculous" stuff do you think people are going to want to include? In terms of mass-produced, wholly original fan-made products (as opposed to knockoffs of existing HasTak prods), is there ''really'' all that much out there other than Unicron.com, ImpossibleToys and JustIToys? For all I know, there is. Please, in all seriousness; fill me in.

I think if we could agree on an adequately-defined page name & definition, we should be okay. How about something like: "Fan-manufactured toys" with a '''clear''' intro stating something along the lines of:

"As distinct from [[Knockoff|Knockoffs]] of existing products or one-off/made-to-order [[Kitbash|kitbashes]], Fan-manufactured toys are mass-produced, high quality toys which feature completely original tooling/sculpts, intended to fill gaps in the official Hasbro/Takara product line, such as major characters like [[Spike Witwicky]] and the [[Quintesson|Quintessons]], as well as significant accessores, such as [[The Key to Vector Sigma]], hitherto appearing only in fiction. Although explicitly unofficial and in some cases sold under copyright-skirting product names, these toys are carried by major online distributors of Transformers product like BigBadToystore.com and are prominently sold at [[BotCon]], Hasbro's official Transformers convention, seemingly indicating a degree of tacit approval."

I agree there would be bit of definitional wrangling over something like WST Dinobots... yeah. But, again, is there ''really'' all that much out there, and is there really that much of a grey area between blatant knockoffs and these lovingly-designed, original creations for the fan-market? Surely work of this nature deserves a place on a wiki that has so many articles about its own fandom...?

I'd be keen to hear a few more opinions. I don't want to sound snarky, but it seems that whenever I raise things around here I'm always talking to the same 4 or 5 chaps. Not that I wish to malign their opinions in any way, I'd just really appreciate hearing from the wider editorial community. Cheers, [[User:PacifistPrime|PacifistPrime]]. 25th October 2007.

:Sorry, I'm a pattern-finder so I tend to track policy issues and form interpretations of the principles, ideals, morals, conflicts and opinions that underly a wide variety unrelated decisions, and then freely project where new issues fall within that gestalt. (The head of the theology department was heartbroken I didn't want to make it my major.)
:I just don't think we have a lot of users interested/comfortable discussing abstract or hypothetical metapolicy. We tend to 'discover' our policies via precedent (people not liking something when it's done) not the Socratic method, which is wasteful-- but very American. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 10:16, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
:Fair enough! :-)
:So, in other words, are you saying that there's in fact very ''little'' point in me "doing the right thing" by raising this topic for discussion here, and that'd I'd do better to simply blunder ahead unilaterally, create the page and potentially invite a catfight, since that's the only way to get most users' attention?
:Also; what's ''your'' opinion of the proposed article title and definition/lead-off from my last post, though?
:[[User:PacifistPrime|PacifistPrime]]. 25th October 2007.

:No. Some of these things are nice, but unless they're stamped by Hasbro or Takara, I say no go. It's not a big jump from the Golden Disks to the WST Dinobots (which, as I understand it, Aaron Archer has been trying to get shut down) to the Jizaitoys Cyclonus and Wheelie to fucking Zobovor's repaints of RID toys into G1 dudes for his friend's basement-con. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 11:41, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
:Okay. So, you reckon even an isolated page is not kosher? I'm sorry, but I just don't see the harm. I mean, if we were all formality nazis like at Wookieepeia I could understand, but when we have articles on [[Seafood Louis]]...! I just don't get it. Why is this such a no-go? [[User:PacifistPrime|PacifistPrime]]. 25th October 2007.
:I presume it is because when we come to things like Transformers products and fiction, we deal strictly with official stuff. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:28, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
:Agree. Only deal with the official licensed products or we will get too many unrelated things. [[User:TX55|TX55]] 15:02, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

:::''Once again'', Seafood Louis is an isolated, self-contained '''''JOKE''''' page. This wiki has comedy in it. That is one of the comedy bits.
:Even then, Seafood Louis was served at an official convention, so it's STILL more "real transformers" than the WST Dinorobots. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 17:52, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

:The harm is in opening the door for every fan-repaint and fan-character ever to be plastered across the wiki and mistaken for official. There's a TF fanon wiki for that crap to go into. I've raised the same objections to including unofficial conventions and publications, even when I really really ''liked'' some of them, such as the Cybertronian Guides and Iacon One. If an unoffical con gets a special exclusive third-party licensee item like a special comic cover or bust redeco, then yes, we should note that on the relevant comic/character page and name the convention, but that doesn't mean the ''convention'' deserves a page... unless we're going to start making pages for every store that's ever carried official TF product. TF material is already labrynthian and confusing enough without muddying the waters by dumping in the metric fuckton of unofficial products. The clearest and simplest way to determine "what comes in" as far as characters and products go is the official stamp. Anything else is a slippery slope.
:But there are a lot of things concerning official TFdom that ''no official stamp can ever be applied to''... like redecoes, retools, animation errors, gang-molding, safety reasons, etc etc etc. They're ''aspects'' of the fandom/franchise that are important and should be addressed, and aspects like knock-offs, fanon, personal canon, etc, should be addressed as well, but since they lean heavily into "made up stuff not approved by the franchise owners", we shouldn't go into extensive lists or anything.
:And at the very, ''very'' least, there's still way too much official stuff yet undocumented here to spend on unofficial stuff... but even after we've got all that in (hah, right), I still say no-go to unofficial product. (About the only exception I would say is that AM Breakdown SHOULD be mentioned on the character's page, in Trivia, saying THIS IS NOT OFFICIAL and that's about it, simply because there is a VERY high chance of that being mistaken for official, what with the "BotCon exclusive", even though it was an unofficial convention.) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 16:14, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, I hear y'all's reasoning, and I'll concede it has a certain logic to it, but I still find it wholly unconvincing, and quite irreconcilable with the spirit of the all the many "fandom"-category pages. With all due respect to [[User:Hooper X|-hx]], the idea that a joke page (and yes, I ''know'' it's a joke page! I'm not thick) about a menu item served at a Con can nevertheless be considered "more official" than a fan-manufactured product that was sold at the same official Cons is spurious reasoning at best. But it's certainly looking like we're going to have to agree to disagree on that one.

Okay, down to brass tacks: the "consensus" is clearly against my position, but as usual it's the same usual small handful of editors. I'm not saying anything bad about you guys, I promise. But following [[User:Derik|Derik]]'s reasoning that the majority of editors (the "real" consensus, if you will) aren't going to make their feelings known on this matter unless it's already been "done" instead of just discussed, I hereby propose creating the "Fan-manufactured toys" page as floated a few posts back and see what the reaction is. ''However'', I don't want to do this and start being accused of "violating a consensus" and getting banned and all that malarky. I think my record of contributions shows that I'm a genuine participant in trying to improve this wiki and not a troublemaker, so I really don't want to incite any bad feeling here.

So, if I do this is everyone going to freak out, or shall we wait and see what the reaction is in the wider community?

All the best, [[User:PacifistPrime|PacifistPrime]]. 26th October 2007.

:Even if the page ''were'' created, most editors would not bother to comment on it because most editors don't have strong opinions about that sort of thing. The idea of a dedicated page for this concept seems bad to me, but personally I would be willing to humor you if you want to give it a try. You are totally welcome to create test pages that are contained under your userpage: [[User:PacifistPrime/Fan-produced toys]], for example. Write as much as you want, and when you think it's ready, ask for opinions. Other people who like the idea might even help you build it there. But even if you make it, we still might say, "Sorry, we don't want that in the main wiki." And for what it's worth, I dislike the idea for similar reasons as the other guys. I am wary about deciding what "counts" as a fan-produced toy (the lovely "CybCon" exclusives that Hooper_X referred to derisively are an example) instead of just a set of kitbashes. To me, covering fan-made toys has more in common with covering fanfic (as in talking about specific fanfics, not the concept in general) than it does with covering guidebooks or conventions, and I don't like that. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 23:05, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

== Does the image server have the hiccups again or is it just me? ==
Is anyone else unable to get any images to load? The main Wikia page seems to be down as well. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 17:38, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

:Wikia, unlike Wikipedia, is not redundant, so it does hickup regularly. (It also only has one redundant backup-- which is not offsite. This is why some of our users dl backups on occasion.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:57, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

==Process for additional admins==
Do we have some sort of process for adding additional admins? I'm not trying to become one myself (already one at Wookieepedia and the Stargate wiki) but I have noticed that this community could potentially grow, and that there could come the presence of certain...individuals who may need to be delt with. The backlog of things needing to be deleted is evidence of this. We only have two admins so far, and there could be room for additions. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 20:27, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

:I for one would find this wiki more entertaining by a factor of ten if [[User:Derik|Derik]] were an admin.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]] 20:48, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
:That would be pretty hilarious, but even ''Derik'' might say it's a bad idea to make Derik an admin; he's previously admitted that sometimes he does stuff that he knows he shouldn't. :) Anyway, I guess I'd be open to becoming an admin. In some ways it would be convenient since I live with [[User:ItsWalky]], but it would also make sense to pick somebody in a different time zone or something so we're more likely to get blocks in on troublemakers before they do too much damage. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 23:09, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
:Derik would ''most definately'' say it's a bad idea to make him an admin. He'd have to be all responsible 'an shit. Besides- you don't get proper arguments out of people if they're cowed by disagreeing with an admin, and I believe in the combative process of decision-making; it's what American law and jurisprudence is based on after all. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:03, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Then for a more serious nomination [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] seems to be a logical choice for a European admin.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]] 23:16, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

:I think that's reasonable. I mean, he's not clearly evil.--[[User:Zodberg|Zodberg]] 23:26, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

I've adminnededed Chris and Steve. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:41, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

:Dude. I'm ''so'' going to make it my business to screw with stuff. :D - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 15:17, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
:I'd back both choices. Steve-o's been acting as an impartial arbiter for months, and McFeely is knowledgeable, levelheaded-- and several timezones removed from everyone else (hopefully narrowing the '6-8 hour window where trolls can run amok without being blocked' we currently have when our admins are sleeping.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:03, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
:Congratulations guys! :D Yeah, trolls generally seem to pop up when most of the North American members aren't online. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:54, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
:I believe both they will be good adimins. ;D --[[User:TX55|TX55]] 02:19, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
:May death come quickly to their enemies--[[User:Zodberg|Zodberg]] 02:46, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

==Continuity error?==
I've noticed a few errors in episode summaries that are listed as continuity errors, but really aren't. An example from from Divide and Conquer:

''Optimus Prime somehow deflects a heat-seeking missile by hitting its warhead with his arm.''

I think this would be better described as a technical error. It is an example of a technical fact being misrepresented, not an internal continuity discrepancy. However, the sections titled "Technical and/or animation glitches" seem to only contain technical glitches specifically related to cartoon production. Is this how it should be, or am I just looking at the wrong stories to judge by?

If the latter, great, I'll just move the note. If the former... well, I think that's incorrect, but of course I'll go with it if that's consensus.

Is that consensus? --[[User:Sntint|Sntint]] 16:25, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

:I noticed a couple of things like this on the "Transport to Oblivion" article, and moved them from the "Continuity errors" section to the "Miscellaneous trivia" section, which seemed more appropriate. "Technical and/or animation glitches" should be reserved for actual production errors, and not used for things that are "errors" in the way of not actually making real-world sense. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 16:49, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
:It'd be far more fun if we had a snarkily-titled section specifically for such things. ie How Can That Be? or WTF? Or at least Improbable Events. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 02:41, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
:Well, what are the categories of "error"? A) '''Animation/Production Error:''' That's clearly huffer, but he's pink. / Starscream is talking in Arcee's voice. / Swoop's arm is seventeen feet away from Swoop's shoulder. B) '''Continuity Error:''' Airraid is present in this shot, but he's supposed to be on Earth. And dead. / Soundwave was present at this battle, though Megatron told him to stay behind and guard his Butterfingers. / Five Faces of Darkness: Passim. C) '''Plot Errors:''' Evil plans that make no sense. / Retreating for no reason. D) '''Science Errors:''' Deflecting missiles by hitting them on the warhead. / Yeah, the Transformers have never heard of ''water,'' right. / Neutron bombs are actually ill-suited for use against robots. [[User:JW|JW]] 03:01, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
:I can totally get behind an ERRORS. OF. ''SCIENCE!'' subsection. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 03:10, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

== Comic Issues Naming Convention ==
Okay, so [[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] and I have gone back and forth on this, so I'm putting it out in the open. He's lobbying for the format to be "Comic Name (issue number)" with the issue number only being there if it's a multi-part story. Personally, I don't care what the spotted heck we use as long as we use the same format for all the comic issues. Thus to get this noticed and foster discussion, here it is. Ideally once we decide something, it'd be great if we could get Walky or Suki to bot-edit everything so we're over and done with that.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]] 00:45, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

:My reasoning is this: The title of the issue is not "Escalation, part 1", it's merely the first part of the title "Escalation". Also I don't care is we use "Escalation (part 1)", "Escalation (issue 1)" or "Escalation (#1)" as long as we're consistent. Please see my talk page for the conversation with Rosicrucian. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 00:56, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
:I'm a little reluctant to make a universal rule on this sort of thing. Contrary to MistaTee's statement, sometimes the title of a story really ''is'' "Blah blah, Part 1". However, in cases where there is no known title (like most of the IDW issues), I think "Series Name issue #" would be best, much like what we already have for the [[:Category:Dreamwave Armada issues|Dreamwave Armada]] series (except that, of course, normally the publisher's name wouldn't be in the title, it's only there for Armada to differentiate from the Panini series). It doesn't feel right to me to have a comma or a set of parentheses. That's the model I would prefer for the IDW minis. In cases of a multi-part story which has a known title and takes place in a series of a different title, but the individual parts do not have titles, we can't use the word "issue". So... then I guess either "Story Name, part #" or "Story Name (part #)" is cool with me. I guess I have a slight preference for the comma approach, since it mirrors the way multi-part stories are titled when they are actually given titles. I agree with MistaTee that decapitalizing "part" in those cases is more correct, although it's not an issue that engenders any passion within me. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 18:25, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
:That actually makes a fair amount of sense to me. If we consider that we're treating these as multi-part stories similar to the way they are in the animated series episode summaries, it does follow that it would be "Infiltration, part 1" and so forth in absence of specific issue titles. It works for the miniseries issues, at the least.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]] 15:58, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
:I've sorta grown a fondness toward "issue", since each individual comic IS an issue of a larger title or miniseries. I also favor the parentheses since the word "issue" is not part of the title. When the TPB is released for Escalation, for example, it is not separated by "issue" or "part", etc, it's a free flowing story. Therefore it's simply "''Escalation'' (issue 1)". Now if the issue itself actually uses the word "part" or whatever (as in the UK strips for example) then I have no problem using it. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 16:31, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
:I don't think a an article title like "Escalation issue 3" causes any confusion -- the word issue and numeral 3 are clearly not part of the comic's title. It's just saying that the article is about the third issue of Escalation: "{Name of a comic series} issue {issue number}". Parentheticals in article titles, to me, are meant to differentiate between multiple entities that have the same name. The various issues of Escalation do not have the same name -- they have no names at all. "Escalation issue 3" then is a purely descriptive article title which doesn't imply anything about the title of that issue. "Escalation, part 3" avoids my parentheses concern and would be acceptable to me (it is of the form "{Name of a multipart story}, part {part number}"), but I'd rather we explicitly refer to issues as issues when possible. In self-analysis I can't think of a reason for that preference, so it may be arbitrary. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 21:50, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
:Personally, I ''greatly'' prefer "Comic name, issue #". Or "Comic name, part #". I really don't like the parentheses - we generally have used them solely for disambiguation, and I think we should maintain that. - [[User:RolonBolon|RolonBolon]] 05:46, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
:"Issue" has the great advantage of being totally unambiguous. Everyone knows exactly what an "issue" is, as opposed to a "part", a "book", or whatever else. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 05:51, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

As some food for thought, I took a look at the inside covers to see how IDW actually parses things.

*Infiltration uses "The Transformers # _", with "Infiltration" printed a line beneath it.

*Stormbringer uses "The Transformers: Stormbringer # _".

*Escalation uses the "The Transformers" logo with "Escalation" underneath basically as an extension of the logo. Further down on the page is printed "Issue Number ___", with the number actually written out.

*Like Stormbringer, Devastation uses "The Transformers: Devastation # _".

Stormbringer and Devastation have an obvious solution here. Simply drop the "The Transformers:" and just use the "Series Title # _" format. No commas, parentheticals, or extra words needed. It might be simpler to just apply this format to Infiltration and Escalation as well.

However, if we'd rather stick closer to the titles printed in the actual comics, Escalation should probably be "Escalation, Issue Number One" and so forth. I'm not quite sure on Infiltration though, as the way it's formatted in those books doesn't allow for a simple discard of the "The Transformers" part. Keeping that in could mean either "The Transformers # _, Infiltration" or maybe "The Transformers # _ (Infiltration)" --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 06:56, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

:More food for thought... I also just checked at the inside covers and discovered a rather consistent pattern. If you look at the small writing at the bottom, all the IDW "-ation" series seem to have it formatted "The Transformers: Infiltration #1", "The Transformers: Escalation #1", "The Transformers: Devastation #1", "The Transformers: Megatron Origin #1", etc. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 08:53, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
:I'll like to point out that the "#" can't be used in article titles. (Since it's used in links to point to sections.) [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 09:16, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
:Dammit, back to square 1, lol. Well on the front cover they all seem to use "issue #X" right under the IDW logo. Without the # symbol, that would be "issue X". If we can decide on the word "issue" at least, we can debate whether to format it as "issue X", "Issue X", "(issue X)" or "(Issue X)" --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 14:04, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
:Echoing the "dammit." Personally, I really dislike the current use of (issue X), with its uncapitalized word inside parenthesis. It just looks... wrong... to me. I think "Title, issue X" would be much better, but that's just me. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 19:56, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Something worth noting: if we use parentheses, we can use pipe magic on the title in question.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]] 20:00, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

:Example? --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 20:45, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
:If you link to an article with a parenthetical reference in its title, you can use an empty pipe to auto-fill the link. For example [[Revelation (IDW)|Revelation]] gets parsed as [[Revelation (IDW)|Revelation]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]] 20:51, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
:Ah, that '''is''' a nice feature. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 20:56, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

:I don't think pipe magic will be helpful when linking to individual issues, though. If I were going to link to Infiltration #4 I would probably want the link to state which issue it went to instead of making it look like it goes to the series' "hub" page. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 22:37, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Glancing over the more recent posts -- and thanks for chiming in, folks -- it appears that a non-parentheses style is more popular. Further, the IDW books themselves seem to vary the way they write out their titles in minor ways, although the indicia consistently use "{Series Name} #{Issue Number}". This makes me think that my previous suggestion to follow the style "Infiltration issue 4" or "Infiltration, issue 4" is going to be best. I prefer the style without a comma, but it's not a big deal to me either way. Opinions on that? --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 22:37, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

:If the parentheses are definitely out, I suppose the non-comma version --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 03:05, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central

2009-03-16T23:16:08Z

216.231.37.133: Allspark.com links

Additional discussion on this situation can be found on these Allspark.com threads:
* [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=56439 "TFWiki Problems, Any idea what's going on?"]
* [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=51208&st=400&p=1155749&#entry1155749 "Major Wiki Work, A thread for additions to Transformers wikis."]

==Hey hey, what can I do==
I think at this point we must begin formulating plans based on the assumption that the site is a total loss. This means damage control first, then restoration, then prevention.

Assuming no good news comes through, it seems to me we need to take the following steps. Bein' that I'm not a tech guy, there may be more options than what I'm seeing, but here's what I figure we gotta do:

#take down the bulk of the site's pages so Google's cache will not overwrite them
#figure out a system to make Derik and Abates' caches of Google-archived pages accessible to editors as they come in (Derik mentioned it'll take over a week to get a complete set off Google.)
#if possible, automate the stripping of HTML tags and other non-Wiki goop from those pages before anyone tries to edit them, including Wikia links.
#find a way to divvy up a restoration workload among our 50 or so regular editors.
#find a new server. We would be idiots to remain here.

I still hope most of this will be unnecessary, but at this point, I'm losing faith. -- '''repowers''' [[Special:Contributions/99.140.167.2|99.140.167.2]] 12:08, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
: Spoke with Bookworm several times this morning. He still has a few more computers to search for backups, but, well, at this point I'm going to assume the worst. He is going to try to at least get our user database working. He wasn't aware that was a problem until I let him know. I think Scout is trying to get all the pages downloaded from Google Caching. I've grabbed a few of my own, but she's got, like, thousands of pages so far.
: As for getting a new server... anybody got any ideas? Hell if I know. Frankly, don't listen to me anyway on that. --Walky

::Take everything down immediately. The longer the site stays up as-is, the greater the risk of contaminating Google's March 9th cache and the more linkbacks we send to Wikia. Then we either beg Google for a mass infodump, or.... 50 editors grab 160 pages each. EDIT: or Scout gets them! Thanks, Scout; good to see at least the words "silver lining" in print, even if I don't see the actual thing itself yet.... '''Thylacine 2000'''--[[Special:Contributions/74.73.131.210|74.73.131.210]] 12:17, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::If we take everything down, what are we going to edit back together? WHEN are we going to edit everything back together? Taking it down just delays our ability to fix it. --Walky
::::If we've got our copy of the cache, then site shutdown isn't nearly as important. The main concern is that we'd lose the Google cache. Looking like retards... well, we'll just have to take our lumps there. (I guess we could set permissions for content pages to only logged-in users? Dunno.) -- '''repowers''' [[Special:Contributions/99.140.167.2|99.140.167.2]] 12:30, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::Even if it doesn't overwrite the cache, I see no reason to have the site up given the state that it's in. I say take it down until the head-honchos figure out how to clean up this mess. '''(Undecided)''' [[Special:Contributions/67.185.148.107|67.185.148.107]] 16:13, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

==I am a dumb, stupid man==
Just to get that out of the way. Should have told BK to back off on the database upgrade as soon as I saw his original email, and maybe we shouldn't have been here on this server to begin with. It was my call, after all. I'll do my best to make it up to you. Especially TOOG and McFeely, who did so many pages. When I remembered Google caches stuff at like 7 in the morning and started downloading pages whole-hog, theirs was the work I went after first. BEFORE HOT SHOT. That is how bad I feel. Nobody should have to watch through Energon twice. Or, uh, once. This is a terrible, horrible thing, brought on partially by my own incompetence and unassertiveness. Other people shouldn't have to learn my needed life lessons with me. --Walky

==What we've actually lost==
Okay, I've been trying to assess and give a realistic account of the information we appear to be missing. It's hampered by the lack of a search option, meaing I've been having to hit the random button until I've gotten to a page I can link to, and I may be missing something things, but I believe that we have lost the following sections:
*The work McFeely did on [[Energon (cartoon)|Energon]].
*[[Revelation]]
*[[All Hail Megatron]]
*[[The Reign of Starscream]]
*[[Maximum Dinobots]]
*[[Alliance]]
*[[Defiance]]
*[[Universe (2008)]]
*[[Revenge of the Fallen]] updates.
*Abates screen captures on [[Beast Wars]], [[Beast Machines]], and [[Generation 1]].
*Updated screen captures for [[Transformers Animated]] season 1 and 2.
*Last but not least, all we know of [[Transformers Animated]] season 3.

If I missed anything that stands out, please let me know. If all I've done is seriously depress you, then...I don't really know how to respond to that. -- SFH 13:49, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

:I'm not sure how worthwhile this is. I could add that we've lost almost everything related to the S.T.A.R.S. continuity (including the meta-page with that name), but seriously, we could keep listing pages forever. Not to mention that probably a huge majority of the existing pages have lost a lot of updates. I don't think there's anything we rank-and-file editors can do until either Walky appears brandishing a "routine backup" or Scout et al. get the Google cache sorted out and implemented. At THAT point, maybe taking stock would be a good idea, but until then, let's just go outside and get some fresh air. Toss a Frisbee around. Call up an old friend. - '''Jackpot''' [[Special:Contributions/216.231.37.133|216.231.37.133]] 14:01, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

::Yeah, we need a systemic, all-encompassing, computer-generated list of every page, since pretty much every page has probably been edited since the split. (though for the record, my list includes 15-20 Energon eps and 20-30 rewritten subgroup pages.) Said list needs a checklist option or something. I dunno. I had this written more coherently before the save page thing crashed. Whee, are we having fun yet? -- '''repowers''' [[Special:Contributions/99.140.167.2|99.140.167.2]] 14:28, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:I still have all those screen captures, so I can reupload them if necessary. Of course, the images are actually still on the server, but the out-of-date database doesn't know they're there. I grabbed a complete set of Beast Machines episode articles and a near-complete set of RID episode articles from various caches last night. Unfortunately the software I wrote for doing the same only grabbed 53 articles before it was throttled. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 14:47, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::We lost all the Titan collections that Emvee and I did. They weren't cached yet, but oddly the main Titan page had a cached version with the links I made to the individual pages. Wierd. This loss hits me really hard since I didn't start editing until this winter and '''everything''' I've contributed is now potentially gone. Since the tfwiki is one of the few joys I've had lately, it makes me feel a bit useless now. --Bluestreak7 [[Special:Contributions/98.213.132.186|98.213.132.186]] 15:03, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::''Of course, the images are actually still on the server, but the out-of-date database doesn't know they're there.''
::If that's the case, then perhaps they can be reinstated when/if Bookworm compiles a list of files on the server that are newer than a given date.--Apcog [[Special:Contributions/99.158.0.251|99.158.0.251]] 15:38, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
That'd be Rob's work on Energon, not mine. I've lost around half the Victory cartoon, and ''every single fucking Japanese character article I ever did that's not Shuta.'' I thought we were only back to post-move September status, but we've actually regressed to June. - '''McFeely''' [[Special:Contributions/81.158.171.149|81.158.171.149]] 15:17, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:I just saved as many of the Masterforce character articles as I could from Yahoo and MSN's cache (Google throttled me again) --[[Special:Contributions/203.97.2.142|203.97.2.142]] 16:15, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

In the event that we can't find a more recent backup (and at this point, if server dude can find one from even as recently as January, I'd be overjoyed), do we at least still have the original dump we exported in September which doesn't have all the wikia links at the bottom? --[[Special:Contributions/203.97.2.142|203.97.2.142]] 16:11, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

== Anything the rank and file could do? ==

OK, so there's obviously alot of scrambling going on from all who can to recover all the massive chunks of what's been lost, my question: is it at all helpful for the rank and file occasional contributor to be doing any editting at this point? I mean, I'm sure there are a bunch of us who would be willing to edit and add here and there to fix up what small bits and pages we can. Or would such small additions and peicemeal fixes just get in the way of the eventual large scale repairs? --[[Special:Contributions/71.235.138.121|71.235.138.121]] 14:59, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

:We really don't know yet. It depends on what Derik and Scout come back with. I can't imagine there's any harm in restoring pages by hand (it could presumably get lost in whatever mass upgrades we end up doing... or not. I have no idea.) Mostly, just sit tight for the moment. When we get a system figured out, we'll ring the bells to summon the fire brigade. -- '''repowers''' [[Special:Contributions/99.140.167.2|99.140.167.2]] 15:25, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

Pick a page. Stick <nowiki>{{bookworm}}</nowiki> at the top, it'll give you a link to that page's google cache. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:33, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

== How do I properly add info to an article's "recover" page? ==

I've done the bookworm tag on some articles and saved the google cache to my harddrive... question is, how do I post this data to the articles' /recover sections? Just copy'n'paste the text, or go nab the source code? Detour --[[Special:Contributions/70.26.248.28|70.26.248.28]] 18:22, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:I expect source code would be more useful. It will preserve the formatting, and someone can probably write a script to convert it back to wiki code. Plus, if I'm wrong, it's trivial to convert the source code to text, whereas you can't really go the other way. '''Chip''' [[Special:Contributions/69.139.147.179|69.139.147.179]] 19:01, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

:I do both, one after the other.
:The first is easier to re-format, but you'll often need to be able tog et the links out of the source code. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:01, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

== Automated Cache Recovery ==
Will this program I happened upon help any? [http://warrick.cs.odu.edu/warrick.html Warrick]. It's supposed to be something that can automate getting websites from various web caches. I put a job in their queue, but if someone who has web stuff (it needs Perl 5 installed) set up on their comp can run the program themselves right now, that would help. Or is that the sort of thing Derik and Suki are already doing? (Basically, I'd like to help, but I don't even know what "phase" we're on...) --[[Special:Contributions/96.240.212.69|96.240.212.69]] 18:59, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:It's being run. It'll take some time, and e3ven then... that's just grabbing a copy of the google cache before it vanishes.
:(Personally I'm banking on a localized reversal of [[The Fallen|the second law of thermodynamics]].) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:01, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central

2009-03-16T18:01:20Z

216.231.37.133: /* What we've actually lost */

==Hey hey, what can I do==
I think at this point we must begin formulating plans based on the assumption that the site is a total loss. This means damage control first, then restoration, then prevention.

Assuming no good news comes through, it seems to me we need to take the following steps. Bein' that I'm not a tech guy, there may be more options than what I'm seeing, but here's what I figure we gotta do:

#take down the bulk of the site's pages so Google's cache will not overwrite them
#figure out a system to make Derik and Abates' caches of Google-archived pages accessible to editors as they come in (Derik mentioned it'll take over a week to get a complete set off Google.)
#if possible, automate the stripping of HTML tags and other non-Wiki goop from those pages before anyone tries to edit them, including Wikia links.
#find a way to divvy up a restoration workload among our 50 or so regular editors.
#find a new server. We would be idiots to remain here.

I still hope most of this will be unnecessary, but at this point, I'm losing faith. -- '''repowers''' [[Special:Contributions/99.140.167.2|99.140.167.2]] 12:08, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
: Spoke with Bookworm several times this morning. He still has a few more computers to search for backups, but, well, at this point I'm going to assume the worst. He is going to try to at least get our user database working. He wasn't aware that was a problem until I let him know. I think Scout is trying to get all the pages downloaded from Google Caching. I've grabbed a few of my own, but she's got, like, thousands of pages so far.
: As for getting a new server... anybody got any ideas? Hell if I know. Frankly, don't listen to me anyway on that. --Walky

::Take everything down immediately. The longer the site stays up as-is, the greater the risk of contaminating Google's March 9th cache and the more linkbacks we send to Wikia. Then we either beg Google for a mass infodump, or.... 50 editors grab 160 pages each. EDIT: or Scout gets them! Thanks, Scout; good to see at least the words "silver lining" in print, even if I don't see the actual thing itself yet.... '''Thylacine 2000'''--[[Special:Contributions/74.73.131.210|74.73.131.210]] 12:17, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::If we take everything down, what are we going to edit back together? WHEN are we going to edit everything back together? Taking it down just delays our ability to fix it. --Walky
::::If we've got our copy of the cache, then site shutdown isn't nearly as important. The main concern is that we'd lose the Google cache. Looking like retards... well, we'll just have to take our lumps there. (I guess we could set permissions for content pages to only logged-in users? Dunno.) -- '''repowers''' [[Special:Contributions/99.140.167.2|99.140.167.2]] 12:30, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

==I am a dumb, stupid man==
Just to get that out of the way. Should have told BK to back off on the database upgrade as soon as I saw his original email, and maybe we shouldn't have been here on this server to begin with. It was my call, after all. I'll do my best to make it up to you. Especially TOOG and McFeely, who did so many pages. When I remembered Google caches stuff at like 7 in the morning and started downloading pages whole-hog, theirs was the work I went after first. BEFORE HOT SHOT. That is how bad I feel. Nobody should have to watch through Energon twice. Or, uh, once. This is a terrible, horrible thing, brought on partially by my own incompetence and unassertiveness. Other people shouldn't have to learn my needed life lessons with me. --Walky

==What we've actually lost==
Okay, I've been trying to assess and give a realistic account of the information we appear to be missing. It's hampered by the lack of a search option, meaing I've been having to hit the random button until I've gotten to a page I can link to, and I may be missing something things, but I believe that we have lost the following sections:
*The work McFeely did on [[Energon (cartoon)|Energon]].
*[[Revelation]]
*[[All Hail Megatron]]
*[[The Reign of Starscream]]
*[[Maximum Dinobots]]
*[[Alliance]]
*[[Defiance]]
*[[Universe (2008)]]
*[[Revenge of the Fallen]] updates.
*Abates screen captures on [[Beast Wars]], [[Beast Machines]], and [[Generation 1]].
*Updated screen captures for [[Transformers Animated]] season 1 and 2.
*Last but not least, all we know of [[Transformers Animated]] season 3.

If I missed anything that stands out, please let me know. If all I've done is seriously depress you, then...I don't really know how to respond to that. -- SFH 13:49, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

:I'm not sure how worthwhile this is. I could add that we've lost almost everything related to the S.T.A.R.S. continuity (including the meta-page with that name), but seriously, we could keep listing pages forever. Not to mention that probably a huge majority of the existing pages have lost a lot of updates. I don't think there's anything we rank-and-file editors can do until either Walky appears brandishing a "routine backup" or Scout et al. get the Google cache sorted out and implemented. At THAT point, maybe taking stock would be a good idea, but until then, let's just go outside and get some fresh air. Toss a Frisbee around. Call up an old friend. - '''Jackpot''' [[Special:Contributions/216.231.37.133|216.231.37.133]] 14:01, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

Talk:Main Page

2009-03-16T17:52:46Z

216.231.37.133: /* Damage control */

THE FUNNY STAYS.
-The Management

__TOC__

Please use this talk page for discussion about the [[Main Page]].

To discuss site-wide policies, please visit [[Transformers Wiki Talk:Community Portal|the Community Portal talk page]].

==Archives==
*[[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1|Archive1]]
*[[Talk:Main_Page/Archive2|Archive2]]
*[[Talk:Main_Page/Archive3|Archive3]]

==WHA'PPEN?==

So...what on Earth has happened to the TFWiki? Also, for some reason the old Wikia seems to have gained all of the articles that are now missing from here. (Such as the Season 3 animated stuff)
:Seems to me that we've reverted to a June 2008 version of the database which could be really bad news. Some of my articles [[Macabre]] for example are at the old site but not here, which would make sense since I wrote it in September 2008 before we moved here. I don't even have a login here anymore - Emvee :( [[Special:Contributions/77.102.92.218|77.102.92.218]] 19:31, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::Looks like our brain-damaged friend is back again.
:::There's some more info on the [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=51208&view=findpost&p=1155749 wiki thread in the Allspark forums]. Looks like an upgrade handled very very sloppily. I'm hoping once they restore the old database it'll overwrite the changes made in the interim, seeing as how our favorite Idiot Vandal With No Life is on a rampage. (Sigh.) Wiping out his stupid crap in one go would be priceless. (This is Jeysie, BTW.) --[[Special:Contributions/72.79.219.120|72.79.219.120]] 19:41, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::Thank Primus. I was worried someone had hacked in and deleted the database. The thought of 6 months work lost filled me with dread. --abates 19:46, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::Ditto. Dread all round here too. Good to know it's in hand. --Emvee [[Special:Contributions/77.102.92.218|77.102.92.218]] 19:48, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::You know... assuming it does get overwritten so we don't have to worry about undoing it, watching our pet vandal complain about how the wiki malfunctioning prevents him from vandalizing properly is one of the most morbidly hilarious things I've seen in a while. -Jeysie --[[Special:Contributions/72.79.219.120|72.79.219.120]] 20:07, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::::Don't I know it, I was just having a laugh at that with the other half :) --Emvee [[Special:Contributions/77.102.92.218|77.102.92.218]] 20:16, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::You know, there are some benefits about this. On the one hand, people don't have to worry about being spoiled about TransWarped. On the other, we get to see Assaulthead self-destruct in rage as he can't vandalize the wiki. However, there is one concern: What if they can't retrieve the lost information? -- (SFH) [[Special:Contributions/67.164.210.225|67.164.210.225]] 20:11, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::I'm assuming that Bookworm made a database backup before he started work. Should be fairly simple to upload it again. Which means this conversation never happened. --Emvee [[Special:Contributions/77.102.92.218|77.102.92.218]] 20:16, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::I've decided I don't want to think about what happens if he didn't. (Realistically about all we could do is a crapload of trawling through Google's cache, but even then we'd pretty much be seriously hosed.) --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.219.120|72.79.219.120]] 20:18, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::I didn't spot this thread until right after emailing Suki and Walky (one knows the code well, the other is right by the servers) about the situation (though I figure they already know), as I thought it might have been Assaulthead showing a heretofore hidden hacking genius. (Hey, if Bulkhead can be a space bridge genius...) I hope to heck we don't lose all those months of work. Someone really needs to work on that update process... --Apcog [[Special:Contributions/99.158.0.251|99.158.0.251]] 20:21, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::It would be a real pain if all that work was lost. I hope it's not. How long would it take to get everything back up again? --Tribor

Guys, stop worrying and check out the community portal talk page. That's been restored and its last post was only a couple of days ago. Unless that's the ''only'' page on the enitire wiki that was backed-up, the most that could maybe have been lost is a couple of days' worth. (Okay, as soon as I wrote this, that page got fucked up, too.) The main thing to think about is first-time visitors seeing the site like this. - Magnus Maximus
:I just find it sad that the only person who can log in (with multiple usernames, it seems) is the guy with the (so imaginative) gift for profanity. --Emvee [[Special:Contributions/77.102.92.218|77.102.92.218]] 20:49, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::That's only because he keeps making new accounts every time he shows up, since we keep blocking the old ones.--Apcog [[Special:Contributions/72.48.68.223|72.48.68.223]] 00:15, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

What worries me, is... why is the database even that far back? Even if we somehow lost everything, we should at least be stuck in how the wiki looked when we first arrived, but we've been rolled almost three months before that. (The last edits in the histories all seem to be mid-June 2008, but didn't we move here in mid-September 2008?) --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.219.120|72.79.219.120]] 21:02, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
: Yeah, but IIRC we moved in with an older backup and ended up losing a little bit of stuff? -hx [[Special:Contributions/24.30.97.198|24.30.97.198]] 21:14, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::Only a few weeks at most, though, IIRC, not three months' worth. (Not that it really matters if we did lose everything, it just makes me even more worried that this backup/upgrade wasn't done right.) --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.219.120|72.79.219.120]] 21:24, 15 March 2009 (EDT)

:::I just don't uderstand why there wasn't a working failsafe in case something like this happened. I mean come on have you ever heard of an SD card or floppy disk? --E-Bot
Somebody set up us the bomb. --Interrobang 21:26, 15 March 2009 (EDT)

Straight up! I agree, it dosesn't make any sense Dawg. Yo but you know i'm still concerned if something like this could happen again, and if the damage could much more worse than it is now. --The Man 21:19, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::There had been discussion for several months about creating a proper back-up system.
::::No one really thought it was important. *eyeroll* -[[Special:Contributions/207.224.69.82|207.224.69.82]] 23:00, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::I had a look at the page for exporting the database a week or so ago but couldn't work out how to make it give me any data. I kinda wish I'd stuck at it now. Oh well, I'm just hanging out for some sort of official word on what's happening now... --abates 23:09, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::Who are we gonna get the offical word from? Admin? I've only been able to track two. This is what really gets me though, I've put more work into this wiki in the past four months than any other time. But I'm kinda doubting that this entire thing was Assualthead, even though his fancy with profanity is some kind of wonderment. I hate worrying because it's like a rocking chair, it gives you something to do but doesn't get you anywhere.--AWT88--[[Special:Contributions/98.19.92.58|98.19.92.58]] 23:25, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::Walky just [http://shortpacked.livejournal.com/481400.html blogged] on the matter.
::::::It looks like our host decided to spontaneously upgrade our software without warning or asking us first, forgot to make a database backup while doing so, things got corrupted and now he's slapped in the database we had during transition just to get things working while he digs through the backup archives to find the most up-to-date regular update.
::::::(I am not relaxing until this update is in-hand. That's the kind of flim-flam answer I usually associate with "oops it's all gone" unless I'm informed somethign is going to happen AHEAD of time.) -Derik
:::::::OK, I have [http://www.aldenbates.com/allpages.txt here] a list of all content pages on the Wiki from roughly 4 days ago. I am thinking of writing something to request and save the Google cache of every damn one of them tonight. Actually converting them to Wiki format and restoring them is another matter. --abates 00:34, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::::Google Cache is passable - I tried a few links that I was able to access and they were about at least a week to three weeks off. --lonegamer78 [[Special:Contributions/76.95.138.16|76.95.138.16]] 00:44, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::If you can automate such a thing, I'd say go for it, Abates, just in case. The TV Tropes folks saved their own wiki from a crash with Google's cache, so while it'll be a crapton of work, it'll still be way better than starting over after losing 9 months of work. And if it turns out we didn't need it because Idiot Server guy gets things running again, well... just a little time wasted, then. --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.218.38|72.79.218.38]] 01:21, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::::::Hrm, as I more or less expected, Google throttled me. I'm not sure of a better way to get the cache pages though. :/ --abates 02:26, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

The not-entirely-ultrahorrific news is that the Google cache of every page I've tested for is from March 9th. So at least there IS a record of really everything we've done here; we've only "lost" TransWarped and one or two comic issues.

But for fuck's sake we have to get this nailed down SOON.

First question: is it possible for Google to make a cache of the current lobotomized pages? How long will they rely on their March 9th cache of, say, Kup, before they make a new image of it based on the piece of shit Bookworm reverted us to? Can we ask them to STOP updating?

And does this current incarnation of TFWiki still have the quarter-million implanted redirects to Wikia in it? 'Cos if it does, fuck, we're better off pulling the plug on the site altogether and only putting it back when it's presentable. '''Thylacine 2000''' --[[Special:Contributions/74.73.131.210|74.73.131.210]] 11:03, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

:Agreed. There is absolutely no reason for the site to be up right now. We're begging Google to overwrite their old cache. '''Chip''' [[Special:Contributions/161.203.16.1|161.203.16.1]] 11:39, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

===Another thing comin'===
Okay, people, look here. I don't know jack from shit about databases and backups and servers and whatnot, but what I do know is this:

''This is a fucking catastrophe.''

In the very best possible scenario, we've had a site that's been down all freakin' day. That's if we're very, very lucky, apparently. This is also a site that goes down every single night at 1:10am central time, and stays down from several minutes up to an hour. Every. Single. Night. Like clockwork. This is a known issue and in 6 months, nothing has been done about it.

That's if we're lucky. If we're ''not'' lucky, and I'm seeing no reason to think we are, then we've lost ''eight months of work'', all thanks to some bizarre software update that... does what? Was it even necessary? Was something broken here? Was that whole thing where the site appeared to be working, was that just me hallucinating?

Furthermore, if this required taking down the whole site, ''why on god's green earth was a full backup not made immediately beforehand???''

Daily outages for 6 months, lost backups, no backups before software updates, and a site that's now rudderless. We were supposed to make a clean, sharp, snazzy break from Wikia, show that we'd be better off on our own and didn't need them. At the moment, we instead look like ''idiots'' who can't hack it.

We HAVE advertising money, yes? It is time to find a ''professional'' site host, and PAY THEM for their services so we can in turn get reliable hosting. The free charity hosting thing was very nice, but it seems we've gotten what we paid for. -- repowers, not freakin' signed in.

: Yeah, seriously, what was the server guy ''thinking''? The way this should have been done:
#Ask us first.
#Give at least a week's scheduled warning once we gave permission. (I mean... premiere of the first big TF info in a while kind of is a ''really'' bad time to be doing this sort of thing...)
#Put the wiki in locked-down Maintenance Mode.
#Backup the wiki.
#Upgrade.
#Test it out.
#Unlock the wiki.

:...I'm with you, there's gotta be some webhost we can pay that's better than this silliness. (I'd recommend Dreamhost, but admittedly, while they're more reliable than these folks, I still wouldn't offer it up for more than simple hobby sites.) --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.222.241|72.79.222.241]] 23:51, 15 March 2009 (EDT)

:Yeah, this was the ''one reservation'' I had against ditching Wikia - that entrusting our work to some random host would be riskier than a company that does nothing ''but'' wikis. Every time I mentioned it, I was either patted on the head or ignored. Maybe NOW the danger will be taken more seriously. - Jackpot [[Special:Contributions/216.231.37.133|216.231.37.133]] 00:53, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::In all fairness, this wasn't "some random host." This would be "the guy Walky pays to host Blank Label, where his livelihood resides." --Rosicrucian --[[Special:Contributions/67.232.209.132|67.232.209.132]] 01:15, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::Not just Walky, but all the other people on BLC. Near as I can tell, this kind of thing has ''never happened'' with the BLC servers before. '''M Sipher'''--[[Special:Contributions/75.177.130.173|75.177.130.173]] 05:38, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::And the problem is that Wikia was unreliable too, in entirely different ways. If we'd stayed with them the wiki might be up... but they'd also be randomly breaking things by upgrading without our permission, and screwing around with our content. Personally, I wish we simply had a webhost where we were allowed to do our own backups/upgrades... --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.218.38|72.79.218.38]] 01:21, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::::Well, we had no real reason to suspect this would happen. Walkypedia has been on this same server, with the same hosting and same maintenance guy for years (albeit it's not a wiki of anywhere near this scale). Bookworm had, previously, seemed to have his act together. We just have to hope that he gets it back up, and that he's properly chastised by this.--Rosicrucian, [[Special:Contributions/67.232.209.132|67.232.209.132]] 01:24, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::It's just that... personally, I'm dismayed we were trusting an "outside" IT person to maintain our site anyway. I had thought Suki and Derik were handling things. I mean, If I'm going to host something on my own webspace from a webhost, I'm of the "Take my money, give me webspace, keep the space online, and let me handle the rest" mentality. Or at the very least, not do anything to my site unless I authorize it and I'm there watching... --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.218.38|72.79.218.38]] 01:30, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

I beleve that we must do everything in our power to restore the wiki post-hast. Otherwise we will fall behind so far it may set us back weeks even months just to get caught up again. And if I might add that if anyone copied any of the articales we can use that information help fix the problem. I know it sounds complcated but we have to try. To me this not just a wiki it stands for everything Transfomers are. --D.J.Sky 03:35 15 March (2009)
:Ruined FOREVER, you mean? - Magnus Maximus 04:39, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

Aw, jesus, I was ''really'' hoping that when I woke up, this would all have been a dream or something. - - McFeely [[Special:Contributions/78.32.44.57|78.32.44.57]] 06:27, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:That's exactly what I was hoping McFreely, but sadly it wasn't. I was hoping the site would be back up by now and we'd have four days of work to recreate, but no, it's still down. I mean ''come on'', the half-ass guys over at the wikia have almost everything we've put up in the past four days (not to our quality but still). I don't know guys... I hope it'll be back up by the time I get home from work tonight and might pull an all nighter trying to do what I can.--AWT88--[[Special:Contributions/98.19.92.58|98.19.92.58]] 10:53, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

::It's really a bad nightmare. Oww... I have same feeling with Chris. --(TX55) [[Special:Contributions/61.229.26.192|61.229.26.192]] 11:42, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

===Damage control===
Figured there should be a link here to the discussion Rob started on how to go about fixing all of this: [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central]] - '''Jackpot''' [[Special:Contributions/216.231.37.133|216.231.37.133]] 13:52, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

== Featured article ==

We have had the same thing there for like 50 years{{unsigned|Human in Disguise|02:22, 7 April 2008}}
:Not really. Jhiaxus was only made a Featured Article on March 2, 2008.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 06:05, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::With 6k articles, maybe we could switch the featured article every month?[[User:Spriteless|Spriteless]] 05:45, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
:::We try to when we can, but usually that involves a big push to improve the given article to featured article standards.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 06:30, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
:::: If someone was just going through the Wikia wikis they might assume that this wiki is a bit quiet. What about just chosing some of the bigger articles every now and again? The larger ones tend to the most highly polished, researched and moderated articles. [[User:Drmick|Drmick]] 19:20, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::Some of the big articles need work because alot of the stuff in them was written in 2006 before we established standards. For instance, G1 Ratchet's article was featured last year I believe, but it was really unevenly written in terms of quality. I mean, for some reason half of the article eschewed storylinks in favour of references. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 20:26, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:We probably should set up some ground rules on what makes a featured article. Right now, it's pretty much what ever Walky wants. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 20:34, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Thunderwing, Nice. --[[User:Human in Disguise|Human in disguise]]

Out of curiosity, how often does it change, or is it just on a whim? [[User:Jeep!|Jeep!]] 14:30, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

== front tf page ==

i hate april fool pranks on my fave tf front page -dr
:What? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 23:11, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

== Funny ==
I think we should remove the funny nes on the page, If it stays, It will sound like a child has being messing up this place and Other people will think it doesn't make sense. [[User:Black rhino ranger|Black rhino ranger]] 09:01, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:You're going to find yourself in the minority regarding this opinion.--[[User:Suzyprime|Suzyprime]] 13:02, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

:Actually, Ranger, people are more likely to think this wiki "doesn't make sense" if it's edited by people who can't spell, conjugate, or use capital letters correctly. [[User:JW|JW]] 18:37, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Who made this again. [[User:Black rhino ranger|Black rhino ranger]] 19:55, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:If that's a question, I don't understand it. [[User:JW|JW]] 20:33, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

But we should Make the images Info not funny, Transformers is ment to be serious, not funny. [[Special:Contributions/82.17.140.55|82.17.140.55]] 15:47, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
:Bullshit. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 17:46, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
::Transformers be [[Bee in the City|'''''serious business''''']] yo. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 18:00, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
:Sir, your erudite argument has at last shown me the light. I have been in error all this time, and you have turned the glare of knowledge against the darkness of my ignorance. Verily, we must all change our ways, and treat the stories about outer space robots that turn into cars as Serious Business. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 18:20, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

But it is unencyclopediac. It looks like a two year old vandalism. [[Special:Contributions/82.17.140.55|82.17.140.55]] 11:33, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

:Thanks for sharing your viewpoint, but, you are very much in the minority. If you object that strongly, start your own Transformers wiki and make it boring. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 21:41, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

:: Or just read the transformers entries on wikipedia. I'm also guessing most people don't like it when you call our writing "like a two year old vandalism". [[User:(Undecided)|(Undecided)]] 03:10, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Face it! Not Everyone likes funny wikis. [[Special:Contributions/82.17.140.55|82.17.140.55]] 15:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
:Since we're one of the largest, highest-traffic wikis on Wikia, I don't think the people who object to "the funny" are a significant enough constituency to force us to change.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:27, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
:Not everyone likes peanut butter! Therefore they should stop making peanut butter. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:31, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

==Search==
So, uh, what happened to the ability to type something into the text box, click "search," and not have it take me directly to a page, but give me a list of pages the term appears in instead? There is no search button on the front page! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:37, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:For as long as I've used the wiki, the Search function has only done that for me if what I've typed didn't match the title of any article exactly. As for the front page, I still see the Search box. I don't know if it makes a difference, but I'm using the Monaco skin.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 14:12, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::That doesn't match my experiences. I could type in "Megatron," click Search, and then it'd give me a list of pages that mention "Megatron" in the body of the text. It was very useful. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:54, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::On the topic of the Monaco skin, can we get some admin feedback on the Monaco skin discussion, please? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:32, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::To be sure, yes, that would be useful. As it is, now you'd have to type something like "Megatron's" or "Megatron" and another word to get similar results. And yeah, I've seen notices for the admins from [[User:Toughpigs|Toughpigs]] asking for feedback and wondered when that was going to be resolved.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 15:13, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:Regarding the search box - typing something into the box and hitting "enter," or clicking "go," is the option that takes you directly to the page with the title you've typed. Typing something into the box and actually clicking the button marked "search" is the option that brings up a list of stuff containing the term, and that's the button we appear to have lost here (although on my screen at least, it's coming and going intermittently, but that's probably a browser cache thing). I've not got the Monaco skin on, but regarding that, I rather like it, and I'd like to see it implimented. There's something very "bare bones" about our set up here, and of course, I know that we kinda have that as a show of "not taking everything too seriously," but I'd personally like to see the Monaco skin in use. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 15:30, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::The same function is in the "Advanced Search" link. Am I the only one who sees it or something? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 18:17, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Cripes, I can't insert a comment before three more jump in before me. No, there's definitely no Search button visible in the Monaco skin as I'm using it, just an arrow with a magnifying glass icon in it (the equivalent of the "Go" button, obviously). I see the "Advanced search" link too, but it doesn't offer quite the same function, in that it doesn't default to the "all text occurrences" option. Rather, you have to choose settings to get that. Not a terrible extra step, but still...--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 18:32, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I see the advanced search link. I also ''REALLY LIKE'' the new 'random page image link' above the search box. Who do I have to thank for that? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 18:28, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I put it in, but it was Siph's idea. Breaking the "Search" button under non-Monaco themes was also my doing, I'm afraid; I was a little zealous with putting in a more useful search and it didn't quite work. It should be back in a day or two. I somehow totally missed any discussion on Monaco coming up; I'll get to commenting on that. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 19:50, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Primarily Wookieepedia for the idea, Blitz for the implementation, and I suppose me for harraunging her about it. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:48, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::A random page on search function is really a good idea because that would make us know about more characters. By the way, I think there still need a normal ''search button'' in the original place . :D --[[User:TX55|TX55]] 01:37, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Then I thank you guys for it. '''IF''' we switch to Monaco, is there any way to do a similar function with that skin? I think the function is very helpful for newcomers to the wiki (and Transformers in general) for they don't have to look through lists of names or randomly search for things. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:17, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::::I don't think it'd be too hard. If we ''do'' switch to Monaco, there'd need to be some changes done to the search box anyway, since under that, there's no "search" button. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 05:56, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
: Is there a way to make the search image load earlier? Right now it's the very last thing to load; even the flash ads come up earlier. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 02:24, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
:: The short answer is no, unfortunately. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 05:56, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Why does the bar show pictures of random characters, but when you go to their pages they have no visual representation? [[User:90.198.228.42|90.198.228.42]] 20:28, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
:Because... I don't know really. I don't know why the powers-at-be chose to create these little search pictures for characters that have no pictures. One would think if they had a reasonably sized image to create the search button picture, they could have uploaded the full size image for the page itself. And/or create searchbox pic-links for characters that DO have decent visual representation AND largely completed articles. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 22:39, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
==Familial relationships==

Should we put something up, relating to the idea of siblings or such[[User:GWolfv2]]
:See [[Relatives]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:07, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

== Redesigning the front page ==

Now that the Monaco skin is the default, and Toughpigs is around to help us out, I suggest we figure out a way to redesign the front page so it isn't just a columns of text. Is there any reasonable way for us to have the franchises in the By Series (or anywhere else, really) represented by the franchise logos? The logos can be as recognisable as the names alone, and given we're getting more and more visitors every day, it would be helpful to make the place more visually pleasing and more user-friendly. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 20:30, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
:I think that's still a [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive2#Logos_for_.27By_series.27_column|bad idea]]. The logos were never designed to look good together, and some (like the 2007 movie) are anti-informative. If you can present a design that somehow makes it work, please do. But I don't see how the new skin changes the basic problems. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 20:56, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
::I tend to think the Main Page and its columns of text are just fine as is. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 21:04, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
::Also, wouldn't it perhaps be best to wait a few days for everyone to get home from BotCon before starting a discussion on more major changes like this? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 21:08, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Didn't stop Toughpigs redesigning the whole Wiki... - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:18, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Toughpigs has been touting the switch to Monaco for quite some time, and he only finally got the nod from an admin just before BotCon.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 23:22, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
Just wanted to say I love the new look.

===Ad bar issues with Monaco?===
I don't know if it's just me, but trying to load the Wiki in Firefox results in it loading everything up to the adserver stuff, and then Firefox proceeds to hang the fuck up, completely use up all available memory, and force me to kill it through Task Manager. It's kind of a pain in the ass.(I'm using explorer right now) [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 00:22, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
:I've had no troubles with Firefox 2, nor Firefox 3 beta 5.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 00:37, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

== Improvement Drive ==
I have no idea how long the "Improvement Drive" column has been there, but it's a great idea, content-wise. However, IMO the links it contains should really be a permanent part of the Help/Start Here column. It's the kind of thing I was talking about [http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Transformers_Wiki_talk:Community_Portal#.22First_go_here.21__Next_go_here..22 a while ago]. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 22:56, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
:Giving this a bump. Input, anyone? Anyone? If nobody protests, I'd like to merge the contents of the "Improvement drive" section with the "Start here" section. Perhaps a blurb on a more specialized improvement drive -- say, our long-dormant BW improvement drive -- could take the place of the current one. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 20:20, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
::Giving this one last bump. If nobody objects, I'm making the changes. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 00:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:One of the reasons the Improvement Drive was disbanded on Wookieepedia was because we instead formed projects such as "Tales of the Jedi project" "The New Essential Chronology project". This allowed us to focus on groups of articles which were in need of updating instead of simply one article. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 00:42, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:::I fully support a "Project" initiative. (Cough cough prose stories cough.) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:07, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::::I can definitely live with that - it looks like one of the new users is actually working on RiD stuff, which is an area that I've felt could use more coverage - it's not my area of knowledge, tho. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 01:43, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::Yeah. I know a lot about the fiction in GENERAL, but when it comes to what happened in what specific episodes and issues? Not so much. Toys are more my forte... --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:49, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::It doesn't help that most of us would need to import the DVDs to write about the fiction. I've been thinking of doing that, but I've already bought a couple of hundred dollars worth of TF DVDs I don't really need soley for writing and screen capping articles for the wiki, which upon reflection is a little insane. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:03, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Please see [[User:Repowers/Sandbox]] for a test page. Feel free to tweak and/or comment. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 04:52, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
:I weaked the disclaimer, added a countdown to TF2 clock (the page de-caches a couple times a day, so it should remain accurate without having to re-edit, I did a sandbox text to verify) and I got rid of the clickable Animated logo, sicne that template still isn't working right and I haven't figured out how to make it work right.
:Re:Improvement Drive... How about we have a 'goals' list for the month? Like, 20 or 30 articles we want to get up to snuff, chosen for balance. A lot of piddling pages, a few episodes or comics no one's gonna get around to on their own, and one or two major character pages. We can track 'em at the end of the month and see how successful we were. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:47, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
::Giving this a bump.
::About the list of "ways to help"... thing is, those up-front lists should be geared toward attracting new editors -- new editors who by definition aren't going to know all the million little persnickety formatting things you have to know to set up a new page. Stuff like "fill in a stub" or "add storylinks" is a lot less intimidating, and a lot easier to slide into, than "here, make this page from scratch." I think an expanded list, akin to what's on my sample sandbox, should be near the top of the page, rather than a bunch of red links. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 22:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

== Main "Transformers Animated" image ==

It really ought to be clickable. Unfortunately, [[:Template:Click]] currently doesn't actually let you center an image-- it probably needs to be rewritten at some point. Unless someone else volunteers, this is mostly just a reminder to myself. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 18:53, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
:Someone just did that and now the link messes up the main page by covering the links to "Comics", "Generation 1", "(toyline/cartoon/comic)", "Generation 2", and "Help contents". Ugh, it was better off the way it was before. Besides, there was a link to the Animated franchise below the giant logo. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 23:27, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
::What poor excuse for a browser are you using? The TFA logo is ''above'' all that stuff. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 23:35, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
:::The image is, but the link is stretching down over the ones below it. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 23:59, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
::::I'm using Firefox, and the link ends WAY before that. I have no troubles whatsoever. - [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 00:20, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
::::Sabrblade, to repeat- "What browser are you using?" -[[Special:Contributions/75.168.112.43|75.168.112.43]] 01:35, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::Internet Explorer 7 is my browser on this particular computer (I use at least three different ones). --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 20:31, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::Well ''there's'' your problem. IE doesn't follow correct HTML protocol, and each version has a different way of not following it. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 21:19, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Just realized I'm having the same problem, using Firefox. The link to [[Transformers Animated (franchise)]] from the image is like, bleeding down or something, covering up some of the links below it. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 18:43, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::::Well, is there any other browser besides Internet Explorer and Firefox that doesn't have the problem? --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 01:31, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::I just went and had a look at [[:Template:Click]] and tried a few things, but it's beyond me. Can we not just do it in html? It would be a hell of a lot simpler...[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 12:51, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::Well, with the "no TF:A Dubai spoilers" text written by Chris McFeely, the image no longer covers the G1 and G2 links. It still bleeds down, but only over the link-free text. So until that text gets erased, the image bleeding isn't much of a problem (but it will be again once that text is gone).[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 01:02, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::Still covers them for me, and I'm using the latest Firefox. I'm going to edit this until someone can come up with a better solution - removing the Dubai text will just make it bleed lower down the page, surely... [[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 16:37, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::::If any one isn't getting the problem [http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h278/Undecided_tmn/Mainpage_error.jpg here is what it looks like] to me. It's the blue highlighted box. [http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h278/Undecided_tmn/Mainpage_error_IE-1.jpg Here is what it looks like in Internet Explorer]. Screen resolution is 1280x1024. [[User:(Undecided)|(Undecided)]] 22:15, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:I replaced it with an imagemap so it links directly to [[Transformers Animated (franchise)]]. Given that the same image is at the top of that page, I don't think we need the main page to link to the Image page if the only way of doing so messes up the rest of the page. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 21:50, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
::Imagemap is working on wikia now? Yay! IIRC it wasn't 18 months ago when you originally took a stab at <nowiki>{{click}}</nowiki> -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:10, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Just to check, can imagemap be set to pave part of the image link to the Image page, or is Click the only thing that can do that. (You'd think a template specificly created for use on the Wikia wiki wouldn't have these issues) --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 22:14, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
::::Wikipedia has a template like this that puts a little blue 'i' in the corner of an image- you click on that to get info about it. In this case it's moot-- a single click takes you to the TFA page that lets you access the image info. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:18, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

=="TF dates"?==
Something else Wookiepedia does on its frontpage we... might want to look at stealing... Putting up a "__/__/__: _____ was released" history box. I dunno. It would only be for like comic books, DVDs, TV episodes, street-release-date toys, etc. Though I dunno if TF really has enough... stuff to do that with. I dunno. Idle thought. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:47, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
:On paper, that's a cool idea. In execution, yeah, I don't think there's quite enough stuff to do it with. We know original episode air dates, and roughly know the street dates of the various comic issues, but we generally have no idea when various and sundry toys hit shelves before, what, '94? If we had enough stuff that there was something to put up at least twice a week (as a "This Week in TF History" thing) I'd say go for it. I guess we could stretch it and add birth dates of TF professionals and that sort of thing, but even then, we're a little sparse, I'd imagine. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 10:42, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

==Front page weirdness==
When clicking on the link for the Generation 1 (comic) or Generation 2 (comic) on the front page, I get taken to Animated (franchise)...but looking at the code the links appear to be correct, else I'd edit them. I've tried refreshing several times but the link is still wrong...anyone else seeing this? [[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 12:11, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] aha, just seen the discussion above about the link "bleeding down"...that would explain it [[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 12:15, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

==Search==
The current search bar only has a "Go" button,we can't look for articles by using keywords now. How are we supposed to look for things we don't know the name of now?[[Special:Contributions/86.87.28.191|86.87.28.191]] 20:54, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:Isn't there a "Search" button right next to the "Go" button? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 20:57, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::I don't think there is a search button on the new skin but if you log in and set the wiki back to monobook in your preferences then you'll have a search button [[User:Donutter|Donut]] 21:02, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
: Are we talking Monaco skin, the one with the little arrow with the magnifying glass in it at the very top-left? Or the Monobook skin? I just put "thunder" in the former, clicked the arrow, and boom (ha ha), search results. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 21:23, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::But "Thunder" isn't the name of an article. If it were, it would just give you the article without any other search results, even if you clicked on the magnifying-glass arrow. I can't tell if that's what the anthropomorphic IP address above was asking, but I do know I dislike the reduced functionality of Monaco's search box. As far as I can tell, typing a word and hitting Enter is the same as clicking the arrow. You CAN still search for all occurrences of a word by going to the "Search" link underneath the sidebar. But that's annoying for the need to go to a whole 'nother page. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 04:46, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Nevermind,i figured it out now. Just type "Search:" and then the keywoard before pressing enter. for example,to search for Optimus Prime without annoyingly being redirected,type Search:Optimus Prime .[[Special:Contributions/86.87.28.191|86.87.28.191]] 18:33, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
==Disambig pages==

I've seen three formats. The general, more common one like the Screamer one, the Prime style one and the BB one. Shouldn't we just stick with the one?[[User:GWolfv2]] 21.34 May 23rd
:The Prime page has to be like it is because there are so many things with "Prime" in their name that they need to be split. And why would we have a disambuig page for [[BB]]? If you're talking about Bumblebee, I don't think that page should be like that. Pictures do not help when the differences between one character's different bodies is about the same as the difference between his body and one belonging to another guy with the same name. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 22:00, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

==Prime Image==
Should an image Animated Prime be added to the front page? maybe replace Movie Prime in the picture if it needs to be a particular size? i think it should be updated to reflect the most modern incarnation of the character [[Special:Contributions/78.32.44.57|78.32.44.57]] 16:34, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
:Problem is, the front page's image is all from Takara's World Of Transformers page. We tried to add AniPrime in there but he didn't fit one bit, so until something better comes along, I do believe this image is going to stay as is. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 16:47, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

==Universe 2008==
I think you should ad a Universe 2008 link in the "by Series" section.
[[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:46, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:Never mind, I got it. I didn't know I could edit the main page.[[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 17:07, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

== The Irony ==

:In a wiki about transformers their alt modes aren't even mentioned ANYWHERE! I find this odd... {{SUBST::User:Crystal lucario/Sig}} 21:06, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::There's two articles on popular vehicle and animal modes, transformation article etc. You can't list alt with every character when some don't stick with the one [[User:GWolfv2]] 22.11 June 4th
:::You can find the altmodes for characters, usually, on the Toys section of their articles. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:57, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::::Ok, thanks. {{SUBST::User:Crystal lucario/Sig}} 11:19, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::psst- subst has to be lowercase. Also- too many colons. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 11:24, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Just as an example, G1 Optimus is often a semi-cab, but he's also officially transformed into...
* Cybertronic Mobile artillery (Marvel comics, pre-Earth)
* Sportscar (G2)
* Organic bat (super-early BW)
* Cybertronic truck-thing (War Within)
* HISS tank (Devil's Due G.I. Joe)
* Cybertronic pickup (e-hobby Orion Pax toy)
* Some kind of prehistoric animal (Hearts of Steel)
Plus, there was a canceled dump truck Optimus in G2, and plans to make him into a train for Hearts of Steel as well. I don't remember what he turned into for DW's Joe crossover. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 14:52, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
:Psst- I come from another wikia so it thought I had a sig. And to M Sipher thank you. I still think that should be somewhere in the artical. Maybe under Forms... {{SUBST::User:Crystal lucario/Sig}} 23:08, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Y'know, it just recently occurred to me that when we scan characters' profile art, we should probably include more than their robot mode. For instance, it seemed like [[:Image:Primal_FPUnivBio.jpg|this pic]] was served by including the gorilla mode because it emphasized the fact that it wasn't his original beast form. Then I uploaded [[:Image:SoundwaveCyb_FPbio.jpg|this image]] and included the jet because it was a particularly well-drawn alt mode. And now that I've done that... I'm going to make a point of including alt-modes whenever I can. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 02:39, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
:To save on space (tall images are the BANE of the wiki), I placed the smaller images (such as the alt mode) over part of the large images in a picture, such as [[:Image:G1Bomb-Burst_MTMTE1.jpg|what I did for Bomb Burst]]. Of course, I also mostly did it so the uploaded pics would look similar to the original Pretender boxart arrangement (shell behind, robot in the middle, vehicle in the foreground).
:Little Iron's Soundwave looks GREAT, btw. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

== 'Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen' countdown ==
There's 381 days (as of June 9th, 2008) until 'TF2:ROTF' comes out and already there's a countdown box? I know it's too late to remove it, but don't you think it's a ''little'' too soon to put one up? It's like this one 'Garfield' comic strip that was printed on December 26th with Garfield shutting off his alarm clock and declaring "365 days until Christmas!". Well, atleast the box isn't counting down the hours, minutes, and seconds. -[[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 12:47, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
:I started counting down the days in my head as soon as I learned the release date. I think it's all in good fun, no reason to remove it. [[User:(Undecided)|(Undecided)]] 01:13, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

== Since no one said anything... ==

The last discussion of a 'goals' list for the month... somewhere... petered out, so I just threw some on the front page. (Mostly nonexistant wanted articles.) They have a 'star' rating to show how complete they are which you can easily edit. Hopefully we can get these to 5 stars by the end of June! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
:Stubbed two of them already, hopefully with enough info that people can pick up easily.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 04:09, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

:As I said above -
:About the list of "ways to help"... thing is, those up-front lists should be geared toward attracting new editors -- new editors who by definition aren't going to know all the million little persnickety formatting things you have to know to set up a new page. Stuff like "fill in a stub" or "add storylinks" is a lot less intimidating, and a lot easier to slide into, than "here, make this page from scratch." I think an expanded list, akin to what's on my sample sandbox, should be near the top of the page, rather than a bunch of red links. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 22:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
::I would be for that. I wanted a lost of articles that needed to be brought to completion that were already clocked in. I just didn't know which to pick! Sub some out!
::I just-- I like the list because it gives a visible sense of progress (at the end of the month) on articles that no one would be inclined to work on on their own. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:59, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

==Should we have info boxes==
{{Transformers character|
name =Blitzwing
|image =blitzwing-animated.jpg
|caption =
|affiliation =Decepticon
|subgroup =Voyagers [[Triple Changer]]
|function =Berserker
|partner =
|motto =''"Whoooo, I'm freaking out!"'' <ref>[http://www.hasbro.com/transformers/animated/default.cfm?page=Bio&character=blitzwing Character bios for Transformers Animated characters]</ref>
|alternatemodes = Dual-Barreled Assault Tank/Fighter Jet
|series =[[Transformers: Animated]]
|engvoice = [[Bumper Robinson]]
|japanvoice =
}}

It is to include some detail like this for example

:It was decided against long ago for many logistical nightmare reasons, the primary ones being that so many characters have very different bodies, affiliations, functions, mottos, jump continuities... --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
:It would be a nightmare. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:32, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmmmmm, I see. [[Special:Contributions/82.17.140.55|82.17.140.55]] 09:26, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
:What is Optimsu Prime (G1)'s altmode? He's has close to 50. Even if 50% of them are trucks... the other 25 aren't. Character abilities, weapons and allegiance have shifted over ltierally millions of years, as have their bodies, catchphrases, names- and even genders.
:We've taken a serious look at character boxes at least 3 times, and every proposal, no matter comprehensive, it's easy to find a character for which the box simply... ''breaks'', being unable to accommodate the diversity of experience the character has had.
:Character boxes are a good idea, they provide a quick thumbnail overview of a character's history... but we don't want thumbnail overviews, we want in-depth infromation. If you wanted a thumbnail overview, go to Wikipedia, which deletes and trims articles containing 'unnecessarily in-depth information.' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 09:43, 14 June 2008 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"> From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</div>

Talk:Main Page

2009-03-16T04:53:19Z

216.231.37.133: /* WHA'PPEN? */

THE FUNNY STAYS.
-The Management

__TOC__

Please use this talk page for discussion about the [[Main Page]].

To discuss site-wide policies, please visit [[Transformers Wiki Talk:Community Portal|the Community Portal talk page]].

==Archives==
*[[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1|Archive1]]
*[[Talk:Main_Page/Archive2|Archive2]]
*[[Talk:Main_Page/Archive3|Archive3]]

==WHA'PPEN?==

So...what on Earth has happened to the TFWiki? Also, for some reason the old Wikia seems to have gained all of the articles that are now missing from here. (Such as the Season 3 animated stuff)
:Seems to me that we've reverted to a June 2008 version of the database which could be really bad news. Some of my articles [[Macabre]] for example are at the old site but not here, which would make sense since I wrote it in September 2008 before we moved here. I don't even have a login here anymore - Emvee :( [[Special:Contributions/77.102.92.218|77.102.92.218]] 19:31, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::Looks like our brain-damaged friend is back again.
:::There's some more info on the [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=51208&view=findpost&p=1155749 wiki thread in the Allspark forums]. Looks like an upgrade handled very very sloppily. I'm hoping once they restore the old database it'll overwrite the changes made in the interim, seeing as how our favorite Idiot Vandal With No Life is on a rampage. (Sigh.) Wiping out his stupid crap in one go would be priceless. (This is Jeysie, BTW.) --[[Special:Contributions/72.79.219.120|72.79.219.120]] 19:41, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::Thank Primus. I was worried someone had hacked in and deleted the database. The thought of 6 months work lost filled me with dread. --abates 19:46, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::Ditto. Dread all round here too. Good to know it's in hand. --Emvee [[Special:Contributions/77.102.92.218|77.102.92.218]] 19:48, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::You know... assuming it does get overwritten so we don't have to worry about undoing it, watching our pet vandal complain about how the wiki malfunctioning prevents him from vandalizing properly is one of the most morbidly hilarious things I've seen in a while. -Jeysie --[[Special:Contributions/72.79.219.120|72.79.219.120]] 20:07, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::::Don't I know it, I was just having a laugh at that with the other half :) --Emvee [[Special:Contributions/77.102.92.218|77.102.92.218]] 20:16, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::You know, there are some benefits about this. On the one hand, people don't have to worry about being spoiled about TransWarped. On the other, we get to see Assaulthead self-destruct in rage as he can't vandalize the wiki. However, there is one concern: What if they can't retrieve the lost information? -- (SFH) [[Special:Contributions/67.164.210.225|67.164.210.225]] 20:11, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::I'm assuming that Bookworm made a database backup before he started work. Should be fairly simple to upload it again. Which means this conversation never happened. --Emvee [[Special:Contributions/77.102.92.218|77.102.92.218]] 20:16, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::I've decided I don't want to think about what happens if he didn't. (Realistically about all we could do is a crapload of trawling through Google's cache, but even then we'd pretty much be seriously hosed.) --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.219.120|72.79.219.120]] 20:18, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::I didn't spot this thread until right after emailing Suki and Walky (one knows the code well, the other is right by the servers) about the situation (though I figure they already know), as I thought it might have been Assaulthead showing a heretofore hidden hacking genius. (Hey, if Bulkhead can be a space bridge genius...) I hope to heck we don't lose all those months of work. Someone really needs to work on that update process... --Apcog [[Special:Contributions/99.158.0.251|99.158.0.251]] 20:21, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::It would be a real pain if all that work was lost. I hope it's not. How long would it take to get everything back up again? --Tribor

Guys, stop worrying and check out the community portal talk page. That's been restored and its last post was only a couple of days ago. Unless that's the ''only'' page on the enitire wiki that was backed-up, the most that could maybe have been lost is a couple of days' worth. (Okay, as soon as I wrote this, that page got fucked up, too.) The main thing to think about is first-time visitors seeing the site like this. - Magnus Maximus
:I just find it sad that the only person who can log in (with multiple usernames, it seems) is the guy with the (so imaginative) gift for profanity. --Emvee [[Special:Contributions/77.102.92.218|77.102.92.218]] 20:49, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::That's only because he keeps making new accounts every time he shows up, since we keep blocking the old ones.--Apcog [[Special:Contributions/72.48.68.223|72.48.68.223]] 00:15, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

What worries me, is... why is the database even that far back? Even if we somehow lost everything, we should at least be stuck in how the wiki looked when we first arrived, but we've been rolled almost three months before that. (The last edits in the histories all seem to be mid-June 2008, but didn't we move here in mid-September 2008?) --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.219.120|72.79.219.120]] 21:02, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
: Yeah, but IIRC we moved in with an older backup and ended up losing a little bit of stuff? -hx [[Special:Contributions/24.30.97.198|24.30.97.198]] 21:14, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::Only a few weeks at most, though, IIRC, not three months' worth. (Not that it really matters if we did lose everything, it just makes me even more worried that this backup/upgrade wasn't done right.) --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.219.120|72.79.219.120]] 21:24, 15 March 2009 (EDT)

:::I just don't uderstand why there wasn't a working failsafe in case something like this happened. I mean come on have you ever heard of an SD card or floppy disk? --E-Bot
Somebody set up us the bomb. --Interrobang 21:26, 15 March 2009 (EDT)

Straight up! I agree, it dosesn't make any sense Dawg. Yo but you know i'm still concerned if something like this could happen again, and if the damage could much more worse than it is now. --The Man 21:19, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::There had been discussion for several months about creating a proper back-up system.
::::No one really thought it was important. *eyeroll* -[[Special:Contributions/207.224.69.82|207.224.69.82]] 23:00, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::I had a look at the page for exporting the database a week or so ago but couldn't work out how to make it give me any data. I kinda wish I'd stuck at it now. Oh well, I'm just hanging out for some sort of official word on what's happening now... --abates 23:09, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::Who are we gonna get the offical word from? Admin? I've only been able to track two. This is what really gets me though, I've put more work into this wiki in the past four months than any other time. But I'm kinda doubting that this entire thing was Assualthead, even though his fancy with profanity is some kind of wonderment. I hate worrying because it's like a rocking chair, it gives you something to do but doesn't get you anywhere.--AWT88--[[Special:Contributions/98.19.92.58|98.19.92.58]] 23:25, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::Walky just [http://shortpacked.livejournal.com/481400.html blogged] on the matter.
::::::It looks like our host decided to spontaneously upgrade our software without warning or asking us first, forgot to make a database backup while doing so, things got corrupted and now he's slapped in the database we had during transition just to get things working while he digs through the backup archives to find the most up-to-date regular update.
::::::(I am not relaxing until this update is in-hand. That's the kind of flim-flam answer I usually associate with "oops it's all gone" unless I'm informed somethign is going to happen AHEAD of time.) -Derik
:::::::OK, I have [http://www.aldenbates.com/allpages.txt here] a list of all content pages on the Wiki from roughly 4 days ago. I am thinking of writing something to request and save the Google cache of every damn one of them tonight. Actually converting them to Wiki format and restoring them is another matter. --abates 00:34, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::::Google Cache is passable - I tried a few links that I was able to access and they were about at least a week to three weeks off. --lonegamer78 [[Special:Contributions/76.95.138.16|76.95.138.16]] 00:44, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

===Another thing comin'===
Okay, people, look here. I don't know jack from shit about databases and backups and servers and whatnot, but what I do know is this:

''This is a fucking catastrophe.''

In the very best possible scenario, we've had a site that's been down all freakin' day. That's if we're very, very lucky, apparently. This is also a site that goes down every single night at 1:10am central time, and stays down from several minutes up to an hour. Every. Single. Night. Like clockwork. This is a known issue and in 6 months, nothing has been done about it.

That's if we're lucky. If we're ''not'' lucky, and I'm seeing no reason to think we are, then we've lost ''eight months of work'', all thanks to some bizarre software update that... does what? Was it even necessary? Was something broken here? Was that whole thing where the site appeared to be working, was that just me hallucinating?

Furthermore, if this required taking down the whole site, ''why on god's green earth was a full backup not made immediately beforehand???''

Daily outages for 6 months, lost backups, no backups before software updates, and a site that's now rudderless. We were supposed to make a clean, sharp, snazzy break from Wikia, show that we'd be better off on our own and didn't need them. At the moment, we instead look like ''idiots'' who can't hack it.

We HAVE advertising money, yes? It is time to find a ''professional'' site host, and PAY THEM for their services so we can in turn get reliable hosting. The free charity hosting thing was very nice, but it seems we've gotten what we paid for. -- repowers, not freakin' signed in.

: Yeah, seriously, what was the server guy ''thinking''? The way this should have been done:
#Ask us first.
#Give at least a week's scheduled warning once we gave permission. (I mean... premiere of the first big TF info in a while kind of is a ''really'' bad time to be doing this sort of thing...)
#Put the wiki in locked-down Maintenance Mode.
#Backup the wiki.
#Upgrade.
#Test it out.
#Unlock the wiki.

:...I'm with you, there's gotta be some webhost we can pay that's better than this silliness. (I'd recommend Dreamhost, but admittedly, while they're more reliable than these folks, I still wouldn't offer it up for more than simple hobby sites.) --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.222.241|72.79.222.241]] 23:51, 15 March 2009 (EDT)

:Yeah, this was the ''one reservation'' I had against ditching Wikia - that entrusting our work to some random host would be riskier than a company that does nothing ''but'' wikis. Every time I mentioned it, I was either patted on the head or ignored. Maybe NOW the danger will be taken more seriously. - Jackpot [[Special:Contributions/216.231.37.133|216.231.37.133]] 00:53, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

== Featured article ==

We have had the same thing there for like 50 years{{unsigned|Human in Disguise|02:22, 7 April 2008}}
:Not really. Jhiaxus was only made a Featured Article on March 2, 2008.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 06:05, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::With 6k articles, maybe we could switch the featured article every month?[[User:Spriteless|Spriteless]] 05:45, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
:::We try to when we can, but usually that involves a big push to improve the given article to featured article standards.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 06:30, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
:::: If someone was just going through the Wikia wikis they might assume that this wiki is a bit quiet. What about just chosing some of the bigger articles every now and again? The larger ones tend to the most highly polished, researched and moderated articles. [[User:Drmick|Drmick]] 19:20, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::Some of the big articles need work because alot of the stuff in them was written in 2006 before we established standards. For instance, G1 Ratchet's article was featured last year I believe, but it was really unevenly written in terms of quality. I mean, for some reason half of the article eschewed storylinks in favour of references. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 20:26, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:We probably should set up some ground rules on what makes a featured article. Right now, it's pretty much what ever Walky wants. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 20:34, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Thunderwing, Nice. --[[User:Human in Disguise|Human in disguise]]

Out of curiosity, how often does it change, or is it just on a whim? [[User:Jeep!|Jeep!]] 14:30, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

== front tf page ==

i hate april fool pranks on my fave tf front page -dr
:What? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 23:11, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

== Funny ==
I think we should remove the funny nes on the page, If it stays, It will sound like a child has being messing up this place and Other people will think it doesn't make sense. [[User:Black rhino ranger|Black rhino ranger]] 09:01, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:You're going to find yourself in the minority regarding this opinion.--[[User:Suzyprime|Suzyprime]] 13:02, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

:Actually, Ranger, people are more likely to think this wiki "doesn't make sense" if it's edited by people who can't spell, conjugate, or use capital letters correctly. [[User:JW|JW]] 18:37, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Who made this again. [[User:Black rhino ranger|Black rhino ranger]] 19:55, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:If that's a question, I don't understand it. [[User:JW|JW]] 20:33, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

But we should Make the images Info not funny, Transformers is ment to be serious, not funny. [[Special:Contributions/82.17.140.55|82.17.140.55]] 15:47, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
:Bullshit. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 17:46, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
::Transformers be [[Bee in the City|'''''serious business''''']] yo. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 18:00, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
:Sir, your erudite argument has at last shown me the light. I have been in error all this time, and you have turned the glare of knowledge against the darkness of my ignorance. Verily, we must all change our ways, and treat the stories about outer space robots that turn into cars as Serious Business. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 18:20, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

But it is unencyclopediac. It looks like a two year old vandalism. [[Special:Contributions/82.17.140.55|82.17.140.55]] 11:33, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

:Thanks for sharing your viewpoint, but, you are very much in the minority. If you object that strongly, start your own Transformers wiki and make it boring. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 21:41, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

:: Or just read the transformers entries on wikipedia. I'm also guessing most people don't like it when you call our writing "like a two year old vandalism". [[User:(Undecided)|(Undecided)]] 03:10, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Face it! Not Everyone likes funny wikis. [[Special:Contributions/82.17.140.55|82.17.140.55]] 15:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
:Since we're one of the largest, highest-traffic wikis on Wikia, I don't think the people who object to "the funny" are a significant enough constituency to force us to change.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:27, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
:Not everyone likes peanut butter! Therefore they should stop making peanut butter. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:31, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

==Search==
So, uh, what happened to the ability to type something into the text box, click "search," and not have it take me directly to a page, but give me a list of pages the term appears in instead? There is no search button on the front page! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:37, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:For as long as I've used the wiki, the Search function has only done that for me if what I've typed didn't match the title of any article exactly. As for the front page, I still see the Search box. I don't know if it makes a difference, but I'm using the Monaco skin.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 14:12, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::That doesn't match my experiences. I could type in "Megatron," click Search, and then it'd give me a list of pages that mention "Megatron" in the body of the text. It was very useful. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:54, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::On the topic of the Monaco skin, can we get some admin feedback on the Monaco skin discussion, please? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:32, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::To be sure, yes, that would be useful. As it is, now you'd have to type something like "Megatron's" or "Megatron" and another word to get similar results. And yeah, I've seen notices for the admins from [[User:Toughpigs|Toughpigs]] asking for feedback and wondered when that was going to be resolved.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 15:13, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:Regarding the search box - typing something into the box and hitting "enter," or clicking "go," is the option that takes you directly to the page with the title you've typed. Typing something into the box and actually clicking the button marked "search" is the option that brings up a list of stuff containing the term, and that's the button we appear to have lost here (although on my screen at least, it's coming and going intermittently, but that's probably a browser cache thing). I've not got the Monaco skin on, but regarding that, I rather like it, and I'd like to see it implimented. There's something very "bare bones" about our set up here, and of course, I know that we kinda have that as a show of "not taking everything too seriously," but I'd personally like to see the Monaco skin in use. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 15:30, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::The same function is in the "Advanced Search" link. Am I the only one who sees it or something? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 18:17, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Cripes, I can't insert a comment before three more jump in before me. No, there's definitely no Search button visible in the Monaco skin as I'm using it, just an arrow with a magnifying glass icon in it (the equivalent of the "Go" button, obviously). I see the "Advanced search" link too, but it doesn't offer quite the same function, in that it doesn't default to the "all text occurrences" option. Rather, you have to choose settings to get that. Not a terrible extra step, but still...--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 18:32, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I see the advanced search link. I also ''REALLY LIKE'' the new 'random page image link' above the search box. Who do I have to thank for that? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 18:28, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I put it in, but it was Siph's idea. Breaking the "Search" button under non-Monaco themes was also my doing, I'm afraid; I was a little zealous with putting in a more useful search and it didn't quite work. It should be back in a day or two. I somehow totally missed any discussion on Monaco coming up; I'll get to commenting on that. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 19:50, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Primarily Wookieepedia for the idea, Blitz for the implementation, and I suppose me for harraunging her about it. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:48, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::A random page on search function is really a good idea because that would make us know about more characters. By the way, I think there still need a normal ''search button'' in the original place . :D --[[User:TX55|TX55]] 01:37, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Then I thank you guys for it. '''IF''' we switch to Monaco, is there any way to do a similar function with that skin? I think the function is very helpful for newcomers to the wiki (and Transformers in general) for they don't have to look through lists of names or randomly search for things. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:17, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::::I don't think it'd be too hard. If we ''do'' switch to Monaco, there'd need to be some changes done to the search box anyway, since under that, there's no "search" button. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 05:56, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
: Is there a way to make the search image load earlier? Right now it's the very last thing to load; even the flash ads come up earlier. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 02:24, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
:: The short answer is no, unfortunately. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 05:56, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Why does the bar show pictures of random characters, but when you go to their pages they have no visual representation? [[User:90.198.228.42|90.198.228.42]] 20:28, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
:Because... I don't know really. I don't know why the powers-at-be chose to create these little search pictures for characters that have no pictures. One would think if they had a reasonably sized image to create the search button picture, they could have uploaded the full size image for the page itself. And/or create searchbox pic-links for characters that DO have decent visual representation AND largely completed articles. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 22:39, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
==Familial relationships==

Should we put something up, relating to the idea of siblings or such[[User:GWolfv2]]
:See [[Relatives]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:07, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

== Redesigning the front page ==

Now that the Monaco skin is the default, and Toughpigs is around to help us out, I suggest we figure out a way to redesign the front page so it isn't just a columns of text. Is there any reasonable way for us to have the franchises in the By Series (or anywhere else, really) represented by the franchise logos? The logos can be as recognisable as the names alone, and given we're getting more and more visitors every day, it would be helpful to make the place more visually pleasing and more user-friendly. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 20:30, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
:I think that's still a [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive2#Logos_for_.27By_series.27_column|bad idea]]. The logos were never designed to look good together, and some (like the 2007 movie) are anti-informative. If you can present a design that somehow makes it work, please do. But I don't see how the new skin changes the basic problems. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 20:56, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
::I tend to think the Main Page and its columns of text are just fine as is. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 21:04, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
::Also, wouldn't it perhaps be best to wait a few days for everyone to get home from BotCon before starting a discussion on more major changes like this? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 21:08, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Didn't stop Toughpigs redesigning the whole Wiki... - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:18, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Toughpigs has been touting the switch to Monaco for quite some time, and he only finally got the nod from an admin just before BotCon.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 23:22, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
Just wanted to say I love the new look.

===Ad bar issues with Monaco?===
I don't know if it's just me, but trying to load the Wiki in Firefox results in it loading everything up to the adserver stuff, and then Firefox proceeds to hang the fuck up, completely use up all available memory, and force me to kill it through Task Manager. It's kind of a pain in the ass.(I'm using explorer right now) [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 00:22, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
:I've had no troubles with Firefox 2, nor Firefox 3 beta 5.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 00:37, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

== Improvement Drive ==
I have no idea how long the "Improvement Drive" column has been there, but it's a great idea, content-wise. However, IMO the links it contains should really be a permanent part of the Help/Start Here column. It's the kind of thing I was talking about [http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Transformers_Wiki_talk:Community_Portal#.22First_go_here.21__Next_go_here..22 a while ago]. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 22:56, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
:Giving this a bump. Input, anyone? Anyone? If nobody protests, I'd like to merge the contents of the "Improvement drive" section with the "Start here" section. Perhaps a blurb on a more specialized improvement drive -- say, our long-dormant BW improvement drive -- could take the place of the current one. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 20:20, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
::Giving this one last bump. If nobody objects, I'm making the changes. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 00:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:One of the reasons the Improvement Drive was disbanded on Wookieepedia was because we instead formed projects such as "Tales of the Jedi project" "The New Essential Chronology project". This allowed us to focus on groups of articles which were in need of updating instead of simply one article. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 00:42, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:::I fully support a "Project" initiative. (Cough cough prose stories cough.) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:07, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::::I can definitely live with that - it looks like one of the new users is actually working on RiD stuff, which is an area that I've felt could use more coverage - it's not my area of knowledge, tho. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 01:43, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::Yeah. I know a lot about the fiction in GENERAL, but when it comes to what happened in what specific episodes and issues? Not so much. Toys are more my forte... --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:49, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::It doesn't help that most of us would need to import the DVDs to write about the fiction. I've been thinking of doing that, but I've already bought a couple of hundred dollars worth of TF DVDs I don't really need soley for writing and screen capping articles for the wiki, which upon reflection is a little insane. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:03, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Please see [[User:Repowers/Sandbox]] for a test page. Feel free to tweak and/or comment. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 04:52, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
:I weaked the disclaimer, added a countdown to TF2 clock (the page de-caches a couple times a day, so it should remain accurate without having to re-edit, I did a sandbox text to verify) and I got rid of the clickable Animated logo, sicne that template still isn't working right and I haven't figured out how to make it work right.
:Re:Improvement Drive... How about we have a 'goals' list for the month? Like, 20 or 30 articles we want to get up to snuff, chosen for balance. A lot of piddling pages, a few episodes or comics no one's gonna get around to on their own, and one or two major character pages. We can track 'em at the end of the month and see how successful we were. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:47, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
::Giving this a bump.
::About the list of "ways to help"... thing is, those up-front lists should be geared toward attracting new editors -- new editors who by definition aren't going to know all the million little persnickety formatting things you have to know to set up a new page. Stuff like "fill in a stub" or "add storylinks" is a lot less intimidating, and a lot easier to slide into, than "here, make this page from scratch." I think an expanded list, akin to what's on my sample sandbox, should be near the top of the page, rather than a bunch of red links. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 22:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

== Main "Transformers Animated" image ==

It really ought to be clickable. Unfortunately, [[:Template:Click]] currently doesn't actually let you center an image-- it probably needs to be rewritten at some point. Unless someone else volunteers, this is mostly just a reminder to myself. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 18:53, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
:Someone just did that and now the link messes up the main page by covering the links to "Comics", "Generation 1", "(toyline/cartoon/comic)", "Generation 2", and "Help contents". Ugh, it was better off the way it was before. Besides, there was a link to the Animated franchise below the giant logo. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 23:27, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
::What poor excuse for a browser are you using? The TFA logo is ''above'' all that stuff. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 23:35, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
:::The image is, but the link is stretching down over the ones below it. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 23:59, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
::::I'm using Firefox, and the link ends WAY before that. I have no troubles whatsoever. - [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 00:20, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
::::Sabrblade, to repeat- "What browser are you using?" -[[Special:Contributions/75.168.112.43|75.168.112.43]] 01:35, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::Internet Explorer 7 is my browser on this particular computer (I use at least three different ones). --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 20:31, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::Well ''there's'' your problem. IE doesn't follow correct HTML protocol, and each version has a different way of not following it. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 21:19, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Just realized I'm having the same problem, using Firefox. The link to [[Transformers Animated (franchise)]] from the image is like, bleeding down or something, covering up some of the links below it. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 18:43, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::::Well, is there any other browser besides Internet Explorer and Firefox that doesn't have the problem? --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 01:31, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::I just went and had a look at [[:Template:Click]] and tried a few things, but it's beyond me. Can we not just do it in html? It would be a hell of a lot simpler...[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 12:51, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::Well, with the "no TF:A Dubai spoilers" text written by Chris McFeely, the image no longer covers the G1 and G2 links. It still bleeds down, but only over the link-free text. So until that text gets erased, the image bleeding isn't much of a problem (but it will be again once that text is gone).[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 01:02, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::Still covers them for me, and I'm using the latest Firefox. I'm going to edit this until someone can come up with a better solution - removing the Dubai text will just make it bleed lower down the page, surely... [[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 16:37, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::::If any one isn't getting the problem [http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h278/Undecided_tmn/Mainpage_error.jpg here is what it looks like] to me. It's the blue highlighted box. [http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h278/Undecided_tmn/Mainpage_error_IE-1.jpg Here is what it looks like in Internet Explorer]. Screen resolution is 1280x1024. [[User:(Undecided)|(Undecided)]] 22:15, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:I replaced it with an imagemap so it links directly to [[Transformers Animated (franchise)]]. Given that the same image is at the top of that page, I don't think we need the main page to link to the Image page if the only way of doing so messes up the rest of the page. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 21:50, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
::Imagemap is working on wikia now? Yay! IIRC it wasn't 18 months ago when you originally took a stab at <nowiki>{{click}}</nowiki> -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:10, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Just to check, can imagemap be set to pave part of the image link to the Image page, or is Click the only thing that can do that. (You'd think a template specificly created for use on the Wikia wiki wouldn't have these issues) --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 22:14, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
::::Wikipedia has a template like this that puts a little blue 'i' in the corner of an image- you click on that to get info about it. In this case it's moot-- a single click takes you to the TFA page that lets you access the image info. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:18, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

=="TF dates"?==
Something else Wookiepedia does on its frontpage we... might want to look at stealing... Putting up a "__/__/__: _____ was released" history box. I dunno. It would only be for like comic books, DVDs, TV episodes, street-release-date toys, etc. Though I dunno if TF really has enough... stuff to do that with. I dunno. Idle thought. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:47, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
:On paper, that's a cool idea. In execution, yeah, I don't think there's quite enough stuff to do it with. We know original episode air dates, and roughly know the street dates of the various comic issues, but we generally have no idea when various and sundry toys hit shelves before, what, '94? If we had enough stuff that there was something to put up at least twice a week (as a "This Week in TF History" thing) I'd say go for it. I guess we could stretch it and add birth dates of TF professionals and that sort of thing, but even then, we're a little sparse, I'd imagine. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 10:42, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

==Front page weirdness==
When clicking on the link for the Generation 1 (comic) or Generation 2 (comic) on the front page, I get taken to Animated (franchise)...but looking at the code the links appear to be correct, else I'd edit them. I've tried refreshing several times but the link is still wrong...anyone else seeing this? [[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 12:11, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] aha, just seen the discussion above about the link "bleeding down"...that would explain it [[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 12:15, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

==Search==
The current search bar only has a "Go" button,we can't look for articles by using keywords now. How are we supposed to look for things we don't know the name of now?[[Special:Contributions/86.87.28.191|86.87.28.191]] 20:54, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:Isn't there a "Search" button right next to the "Go" button? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 20:57, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::I don't think there is a search button on the new skin but if you log in and set the wiki back to monobook in your preferences then you'll have a search button [[User:Donutter|Donut]] 21:02, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
: Are we talking Monaco skin, the one with the little arrow with the magnifying glass in it at the very top-left? Or the Monobook skin? I just put "thunder" in the former, clicked the arrow, and boom (ha ha), search results. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 21:23, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::But "Thunder" isn't the name of an article. If it were, it would just give you the article without any other search results, even if you clicked on the magnifying-glass arrow. I can't tell if that's what the anthropomorphic IP address above was asking, but I do know I dislike the reduced functionality of Monaco's search box. As far as I can tell, typing a word and hitting Enter is the same as clicking the arrow. You CAN still search for all occurrences of a word by going to the "Search" link underneath the sidebar. But that's annoying for the need to go to a whole 'nother page. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 04:46, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Nevermind,i figured it out now. Just type "Search:" and then the keywoard before pressing enter. for example,to search for Optimus Prime without annoyingly being redirected,type Search:Optimus Prime .[[Special:Contributions/86.87.28.191|86.87.28.191]] 18:33, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
==Disambig pages==

I've seen three formats. The general, more common one like the Screamer one, the Prime style one and the BB one. Shouldn't we just stick with the one?[[User:GWolfv2]] 21.34 May 23rd
:The Prime page has to be like it is because there are so many things with "Prime" in their name that they need to be split. And why would we have a disambuig page for [[BB]]? If you're talking about Bumblebee, I don't think that page should be like that. Pictures do not help when the differences between one character's different bodies is about the same as the difference between his body and one belonging to another guy with the same name. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 22:00, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

==Prime Image==
Should an image Animated Prime be added to the front page? maybe replace Movie Prime in the picture if it needs to be a particular size? i think it should be updated to reflect the most modern incarnation of the character [[Special:Contributions/78.32.44.57|78.32.44.57]] 16:34, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
:Problem is, the front page's image is all from Takara's World Of Transformers page. We tried to add AniPrime in there but he didn't fit one bit, so until something better comes along, I do believe this image is going to stay as is. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 16:47, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

==Universe 2008==
I think you should ad a Universe 2008 link in the "by Series" section.
[[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:46, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:Never mind, I got it. I didn't know I could edit the main page.[[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 17:07, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

== The Irony ==

:In a wiki about transformers their alt modes aren't even mentioned ANYWHERE! I find this odd... {{SUBST::User:Crystal lucario/Sig}} 21:06, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::There's two articles on popular vehicle and animal modes, transformation article etc. You can't list alt with every character when some don't stick with the one [[User:GWolfv2]] 22.11 June 4th
:::You can find the altmodes for characters, usually, on the Toys section of their articles. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:57, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::::Ok, thanks. {{SUBST::User:Crystal lucario/Sig}} 11:19, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::psst- subst has to be lowercase. Also- too many colons. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 11:24, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Just as an example, G1 Optimus is often a semi-cab, but he's also officially transformed into...
* Cybertronic Mobile artillery (Marvel comics, pre-Earth)
* Sportscar (G2)
* Organic bat (super-early BW)
* Cybertronic truck-thing (War Within)
* HISS tank (Devil's Due G.I. Joe)
* Cybertronic pickup (e-hobby Orion Pax toy)
* Some kind of prehistoric animal (Hearts of Steel)
Plus, there was a canceled dump truck Optimus in G2, and plans to make him into a train for Hearts of Steel as well. I don't remember what he turned into for DW's Joe crossover. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 14:52, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
:Psst- I come from another wikia so it thought I had a sig. And to M Sipher thank you. I still think that should be somewhere in the artical. Maybe under Forms... {{SUBST::User:Crystal lucario/Sig}} 23:08, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Y'know, it just recently occurred to me that when we scan characters' profile art, we should probably include more than their robot mode. For instance, it seemed like [[:Image:Primal_FPUnivBio.jpg|this pic]] was served by including the gorilla mode because it emphasized the fact that it wasn't his original beast form. Then I uploaded [[:Image:SoundwaveCyb_FPbio.jpg|this image]] and included the jet because it was a particularly well-drawn alt mode. And now that I've done that... I'm going to make a point of including alt-modes whenever I can. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 02:39, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
:To save on space (tall images are the BANE of the wiki), I placed the smaller images (such as the alt mode) over part of the large images in a picture, such as [[:Image:G1Bomb-Burst_MTMTE1.jpg|what I did for Bomb Burst]]. Of course, I also mostly did it so the uploaded pics would look similar to the original Pretender boxart arrangement (shell behind, robot in the middle, vehicle in the foreground).
:Little Iron's Soundwave looks GREAT, btw. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

== 'Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen' countdown ==
There's 381 days (as of June 9th, 2008) until 'TF2:ROTF' comes out and already there's a countdown box? I know it's too late to remove it, but don't you think it's a ''little'' too soon to put one up? It's like this one 'Garfield' comic strip that was printed on December 26th with Garfield shutting off his alarm clock and declaring "365 days until Christmas!". Well, atleast the box isn't counting down the hours, minutes, and seconds. -[[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 12:47, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
:I started counting down the days in my head as soon as I learned the release date. I think it's all in good fun, no reason to remove it. [[User:(Undecided)|(Undecided)]] 01:13, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

== Since no one said anything... ==

The last discussion of a 'goals' list for the month... somewhere... petered out, so I just threw some on the front page. (Mostly nonexistant wanted articles.) They have a 'star' rating to show how complete they are which you can easily edit. Hopefully we can get these to 5 stars by the end of June! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
:Stubbed two of them already, hopefully with enough info that people can pick up easily.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 04:09, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

:As I said above -
:About the list of "ways to help"... thing is, those up-front lists should be geared toward attracting new editors -- new editors who by definition aren't going to know all the million little persnickety formatting things you have to know to set up a new page. Stuff like "fill in a stub" or "add storylinks" is a lot less intimidating, and a lot easier to slide into, than "here, make this page from scratch." I think an expanded list, akin to what's on my sample sandbox, should be near the top of the page, rather than a bunch of red links. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 22:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
::I would be for that. I wanted a lost of articles that needed to be brought to completion that were already clocked in. I just didn't know which to pick! Sub some out!
::I just-- I like the list because it gives a visible sense of progress (at the end of the month) on articles that no one would be inclined to work on on their own. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:59, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

==Should we have info boxes==
{{Transformers character|
name =Blitzwing
|image =blitzwing-animated.jpg
|caption =
|affiliation =Decepticon
|subgroup =Voyagers [[Triple Changer]]
|function =Berserker
|partner =
|motto =''"Whoooo, I'm freaking out!"'' <ref>[http://www.hasbro.com/transformers/animated/default.cfm?page=Bio&character=blitzwing Character bios for Transformers Animated characters]</ref>
|alternatemodes = Dual-Barreled Assault Tank/Fighter Jet
|series =[[Transformers: Animated]]
|engvoice = [[Bumper Robinson]]
|japanvoice =
}}

It is to include some detail like this for example

:It was decided against long ago for many logistical nightmare reasons, the primary ones being that so many characters have very different bodies, affiliations, functions, mottos, jump continuities... --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
:It would be a nightmare. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:32, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmmmmm, I see. [[Special:Contributions/82.17.140.55|82.17.140.55]] 09:26, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
:What is Optimsu Prime (G1)'s altmode? He's has close to 50. Even if 50% of them are trucks... the other 25 aren't. Character abilities, weapons and allegiance have shifted over ltierally millions of years, as have their bodies, catchphrases, names- and even genders.
:We've taken a serious look at character boxes at least 3 times, and every proposal, no matter comprehensive, it's easy to find a character for which the box simply... ''breaks'', being unable to accommodate the diversity of experience the character has had.
:Character boxes are a good idea, they provide a quick thumbnail overview of a character's history... but we don't want thumbnail overviews, we want in-depth infromation. If you wanted a thumbnail overview, go to Wikipedia, which deletes and trims articles containing 'unnecessarily in-depth information.' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 09:43, 14 June 2008 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"> From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</div>

Megatron Rising - Part 1

2008-04-10T19:09:42Z

216.231.37.133: /* Real-world references */ Timely!

{{episodenav|animated|15|season=1|prev=Nature Calls|next=Megatron Rising - Part 2}}

[[Image:MegRisingRebuilt.jpg|right|thumb|300px|Oh ''shit'', what are we gonna do now?!]]

'''Prime begins to doubt his leadership abilities as the Decepticons mobilize for a big invasion of Earth.'''

==Summary==

[[Image:MegRisingBodyLab.jpg|left|thumb|This is what happens when you don't have proper rust proofing.]]

[[Detroit]] is in the midst of a blizzard, and as Isaac Sumdac starts to repair Megatron's body he comments that they were fortunate to have found it beforehand, while at the same time praising it for being well-constructed enough to withstand 50 years of exposure to the elements. Megatron silently gloats that Cybertronian technology is more powerful than any force on Earth. The bad weather causes a blackout and forces [[Sumdac Tower]] onto its backup generator; when Sumdac decides this will force a delay in the repairs, Megatron alternates between bluster and sweet-talk to try to get his way, but it's no use. Megatron attempts to call Lugnut again for assistance.

Lugnut and Blitzwing have just finished rebuilding themselves (after some squabbling over the last piece) in a distant forest. Starscream mocks them for in-fighting and reminds them that he is their new chosen and sworn sovereign; his two subjects retort that they serve him only under threat, not by choice. At that moment, Megatron successfully contacts Lugnut, whose newly reverential and respectful attitude both pleases and confuses (''but mostly pleases'') Starscream. When Starscream finds out Lugnut "thinks" he's hearing Megatron, the new leader is infuriated, and in his anger almost exposes that fact that it was himself, and not the Autobots, who defeated Megatron in the first place. Megatron orders Lugnut to retrieve the [[Sari Sumdac's key|Key]] and bring it to him; Starscream then notices that, regardless of the source, Lugnut is indeed being contacted by someone. He orders Lugnut and Blitzwing to obey the strange orders for now, while he himself will track the transmissions to their source and see who is trying to undermine his authority.

As the Decepticons move out, the Autobots' HQ computer notices their increased activity. The Autobots are worried about a possible full-scale Decepticon invasion. As if Optimus Prime wasn't stressed enough, Bulkhead and Prowl then take the opportunity to finally tell him bout the continued survival of the [[Dinobot (Animated)|Dinobots]] on [[Dinobot Island (Animated)|Dinobot Island]]. Prime is furious that his orders were disobeyed, but decides that given the circumstances they should try to use all resources available--but insists that he will lead the new mission to contact the Dinobots.

Optimus Prime is especially worried about the Key, both because Sari can't protect it, and because she once again is using it as a toy (this time for model-plane dogfighting). When he orders her to turn it over, Sari angrily reminds him that she was chosen for this role by the [[AllSpark (Animated)|AllSpark]] itself. Prime then orders Ratchet to magnetically take the key from her, and, reluctantly, Ratchet obeys. Sari feels heartbroken and betrayed, and flees the base. An upset Bumblebee defends Sari's role as part of the team, to which Optimus responds that since Bumblebee has been such a poor team performer who makes so many mistakes, he isn't a good character witness. Bumblebee retorts that the Autobots' desperate, seemingly hopeless situation means Optimus isn't a good leader--then he leaves in pursuit of Sari. Prime orders Ratchet to take the Key to the [[Ark (Animated)|Autobot spaceship]] beneath Lake Erie, and they all depart.

Sari walks down the street, dejected and pouting about how untrustworthy the Autobots turned out to be. But she's being watched--by Blackarachnia, who abducts the girl and mockingly praises her for seeing the light. Still hoping to cure herself of her techno-organic body, Blackarachnia attempts to bargain with Sari to hand over the key. They exchange "snappy banter" for a while, which leaves Blackarachnia bored. When Sari again mentions how the Autobots no longer trust her, Blackarachnia tells her more about her own sad past and how only the power of the AllSpark can give her back a normal life. Sari seems moved....

[[Image:Megatron Rising 1 Ratchet Blitzwing Key.jpg|thumb|right|YOINK! AHAHAHAHAHA!]]
En route to the Autobot ship, Ratchet is ambushed by Blitzwing and Lugnut, in a battle about as one-sided as Bambi vs Godzilla. He seems to challenge Blitzwing to a battle to the finish--but the three-faced robot simply freezes Ratchet solid and cracks off his crystallized arm, taking the Key with it.

On Dinobot Island, the Autobots are confronted by the Dinobots who--again--are hostile to trespassers. Prime seemingly worsens the situation, as a stranger with a heavy-handed attitude. When their familiar protector Prowl reveals himself and tries to speak, the Dinobots calm down slightly (though Prime is further frustrated to learn the [[Meltdown (Animated)|extent of his troops' misadventures]] on Dinobot Island). But in the end, the Dinobots refuse to help against the Decepticons, saying they don't want to help any robots--they ''fight'' robots. Optimus points out that the Dinobots are robots themselves.... prompting them to begin fighting each other. When Ratchet calls and informs Prime of the key's theft, the Autobots to return to the mainland. Bulkhead asks what their next course of action is, and Prime admits he doesn't know, thinking that Bumblebee was right about Prime being unfit for command.

[[Image:Megatron rising 1 Starscream freakout.jpg|thumb|left|150px|Bumblebee violated rule number 37 of the good guy code: never interrupt the villain during the monologue.]]
Starscream traces the source of Lugnut's messages back to Sumdac Tower. Blasting his way in, he is shocked to find Megatron alive--but regains his composure at the sight of his former leader dismantled and helpless. The two have an elaborately deceptive conversation about loyalty: Megatron knows Starscream betrayed him, but Starscream doesn't know he knows and wants to [[Wikipedia:The Incredibles|"monologue"]] a bit before delivering the final blow. Meanwhile, Bumblebee's search for Sari leads him to the tower; when he spots Starscream through the wrecked wall, he squeezes himself into an elevator and prepares for a one-on-one battle (after using the classic "cellphone interference" ploy to avoid talking to Optimus). Right when Starscream is finally about to finish Megatron off, Bumblebee charges in, stingers blasting wildly--striking Starscream at full force and causing no damage at all. Starscream effortlessly thrashes Bumblebee, more angry at having his monologue interrupted than anything else. During this diversion, Megatron activates some of the lab machinery, propelling both Starscream and Bumblebee out of the lab and onto the tower roof.

[[Image:MegRisingHeadKey.jpg|right|thumb|Cyber Key power!]]

Dr. Sumdac rushes in, hearing the disturbance. At first Megatron keeps up his usual act, warning that the Decepticons will be back soon and that he needs his new body immediately. The doctor agrees, trying to repair it as quickly as possible, while Megatron observes the rooftop action on a viewscreen and tries to electrocute Starscream through a spotlight. Lugnut and Blitzwing arrive, praising their leader, and finally it's time for the charade to end. Seeing Megatron, Blitzwing finally understands that Lugnut wasn't crazy. Lugnut forces Sumdac to genuflect to Megatron, who in turn gloats at the sight and how easily he was able to lie to his captor. Blitzwing inserts the Key into Megatron's head; its power is now his to command. Megatron quickly (''and beautifully'') repairs himself, using metal from the lab as patch-up material when necessary; in the process he steals Sumdac away to an as-yet-undisclosed location.

Up on the roof, Starscream is about to finish off Bumblebee, and down on the street the Autobots are just arriving to try to help, but all are reduced to staring in horror and disbelief as Megatron blasts up into the sky, an armored colossus.

{{-}}
==Stats==

*'''Written by:''' [[Marsha Griffin]]
*'''Directed by:''' [[Irineo Maramba]], [[Ciro Nieli]], & [[Kentaro Mizuno]]
*'''Original airdate:''' March 29, 2008
*'''Animation studio:Mook'''

===Featured characters===
(''Numbers indicate order of appearance.)''
{|border=5 cellpadding=5 cellspacing=5 align=center style="border:#800000"

! style="background:#FFEEEE" | [[Autobot]]s
! style="background:#EEEEFE" | [[Decepticon]]s
! style="background:antiquewhite" | [[Human]]s
|-
| style="background:#FFEEEE" valign="top" |
* [[Optimus Prime (Animated)|Optimus Prime]] (7)
* [[Prowl (Animated)|Prowl]] (8)
* [[Ratchet (Animated)|Ratchet]] (9)
* [[Bulkhead (Animated)|Bulkhead]] (10)
* [[Bumblebee (Animated)|Bumblebee]] (11)
* [[Grimlock (Animated)|Grimlock]] (13)
* [[Snarl (Animated)|Snarl]] (14)
* [[Swoop (Animated)|Swoop]] (15)
| style="background:#EEEEFE" valign="top" |
* [[Megatron (Animated)|Megatron]] (2)
* [[Blitzwing (Animated)|Blitzwing]] (4)
* [[Lugnut]] (5)
* [[Starscream (Animated)|Starscream]] (6)
* [[Blackarachnia (Animated)|Blackarachnia]] (12)
| style="background:antiquewhite" valign="top" |
* [[Isaac Sumdac]] (1)
* [[Sari Sumdac]] (3)

|}

==Quotes==

'''Lugnut''': "And the universe will rejoice! All hail your grand and glorious return!" 
'''Starscream''': "Okaaay, what's ''his'' malfunction?" 
'''Calm Blitzwing''': "Technical glitch. It happens." 
'''Crazy Blitzwing''': "A lot, actually! Ahahahaha!" 
'''Lugnut''': "It is ''not'' a glitch! It is Megatron, and he commands us to deliver him the key!" 
'''Starscream''': "Megatron?! Did you just say Megatron? Did he just say ''MEGATRON''?! ''THERE IS NO MEGATRON!'' MEGATRON IS OFFLINE! TERMINATED! I DID IT MYSEL{{m-}}''saw'' it myself."
:{{m-}}'''Starscream''', you master of deception, you.

"Lugnut! Blitzwing! Do as our mystery caller commands! Track the energy signal and find that key! Meanwhile, I will locate the source of the transmission." 
"And locate our grand and glorious leader!" 
"Uh, fine, yes, whatever."
:—'''Starscream''' and '''Lugnut'''. Screamer's the master of deception, we say!

"The fate of the Earth and Cybertron hang in the balance and all I've got in my command are a bunch of undisciplined, insubordinate MALFUNCTIONS!"
:{{m-}}'''Optimus Prime''' has quite the bad temper when he's dissatisfied with his troops. ''[[Megatron (BW)|Yesssss.]]''

"What's your damage, Prime? Sari is a part of this team!" 
"Considering your own history of mistakes, you aren't exactly the greatest character witness, Bumblebee."
:—'''Bumblebee''' and '''Optimus Prime''' exchange harsh words. Ouch.

'''Angry Blitzwing''': "The key, Autobot!" 
'''Ratchet''': "You'll have to pry it from my cold, offline servo." 
''[Blitzwing switches to his calm face, freezes Ratchet, then switches to his crazy face]'' 
'''Crazy Blitzwing''': "Well, it's not exactly offline, but— ''[Rips off Ratchet's arm]'' —it's certainly cold. Ahahahaha!" 
:{{m-}}'''Blitzwing''' cheats by stealing the key from '''Ratchet''' instead of fighting for it.

'''Grimlock''': "Cycle and car robots good! Truck robot bad!" 
'''Prowl''': "Truck robot good. Our ''friend''." 
'''Grimlock''': "Hmmmm...friend?"
:{{m-}}'''Prowl''', the Dinobot whisperer

"Evil forces are about to invade this planet and destroy everything in their path. If we want to survive, we must join forces and fight them together." 
"Dinobots not need robots to fight! Dinobots destroy robots!" 
"In case you haven't noticed, Dinobots ''are'' robots."
:{{m-}}'''Optimus Prime''' gives '''Grimlock''' a dose of reality.

"Look what the capacitor dragged in." 
"Megatron?! Alive? And looking...magnificent, as always." 
"Starscream. How good it is to be reunited with such a ''devoted'' and ''faithful'' subject in my time of need." 
"I would have come sooner, o grand and illustrious leader, but naturally we all assumed you perished at the hands of the Autobot scum. What...great...joy to discover you did not." 
"Yes. Delight is written all over your face."
:{{m-}}'''Megatron''' and '''Starscream''' exchange warm and heartfelt pleasantries.

"'''YOU INTERRUPTED MY SPEECH!'''"
:{{m-}}'''Starscream''' seriously freaks out when Bumblebee shoots him.

'''Lugnut''': "We have come for our glorious leader, Megatron!" 
'''Megatron''': "I am here, Lugnut." 
'''Lugnut''': "Oh, Master, I am not worthy! I am not worthy{{m-}}...what happened to your body?" 
'''Megatron''': "...long story." 
'''Calm Blitzwing''': "So, you didn't have voices in your head..." 
'''Crazy Blitzwing''': "...you had a ''head'' in your head! Ahahahaha!"
:{{m-}}Typical Decepticon reunion.

"''Decepticons?'' But, you told me you were an Autobot." 
"And I hated every moment of that humiliating charade."
:{{m-}}'''Isaac Sumdac''' finally learns the truth, and from '''Megatron''' himself.

{{-}}

==Other notes==
===Continuity errors===
* When Bulkhead brings up the Dinobots, Optimus says that they were destroyed, "weren't they?" However, the last time the Dinobots were mentioned was in "[[Survival of the Fittest]]", when Optimus thought the Dinobots were ''missing,'' and also suspected they were involved in the kidnapping of Sari. He has no known reason to think they were ''destroyed.''

* Despite her initial sarcasm, Sari has apparently forgotten (or is willing to forget) how Blackarachnia's use of the AllSpark key nearly killed Sari herself and all organic life for miles around. She also doesn't seem to mind being kidnapped onto a rooftop again. Lesson: Never betray a kid's trust; it makes them act '''really''' stupid.

* Not so much an error as just an oddity: When Starscream stands over a dangling Bumblebee on the Sumdac Tower rooftop, Megatron sends a power surge through a roof fixture and zaps Starscream. When the scene cuts back to the roof a few minutes later, Bumblebee's back on the roof, which he likely managed while Starscream was stunned, and Screamer's confronting him again. However, with no time given for them to talk or react about the transition, the previous roof scene may as well not have happened.

===Animation Errors===
[[Image:Sari's leg.jpg|right|200px|thumb|It's a new fashion trend.]]

* The [[scale|size of Megatron's head]] fluctuates greatly between scenes, often appearing gigantic even compared to large characters.

* While Prime is shouting at the other 'Bots his insignia starts where it should be, on his shoulder. But as he gestures it seems to rotate around to underside of his arm.

* When Sari is telling Blackarachnia about the Autobots taking away her key, her right leg is drawn awkwardly... almost as if it's growing out of her skirt. Though this is very likely in order to prevent a [[Teletraan 15|pre-teen panty shot]].

* After Ratchet reports to Prime that he lost the key, his EMP blaster wound briefly disappears as he lowers his arm.

* Starscream's Decepticon insignia is occasionally upside-down.

===Transformers references===
* Prime finally refers to [[Dinobot Island]] by that name.

===Real-world references===
* Ratchet's remark to Blitzwing about prying the key "from his cold, offline servo" is a reference to an [[Wikipedia:I'll give you my gun when you take it from my cold, dead hands|NRA slogan]] made famous in a speech by [[Wikipedia:Charlton Heston|Charlton Heston]]. Coincidentally, exactly one week after this episode aired, Heston fulfilled his statement.

===Miscellaneous trivia===
* The Decepticon symbol on Megatron's body that was so clear [[Nature Calls|last episode]] is nowhere to be seen now. Of course, neither is the chestplate it resided on.

* The R/C Plane Sari was flying resembles a MiG-15 Fighter.

* We learn that Prowl and Bulkhead not only didn't tell Prime that the Dinobots were still around, but also didn't tell him that [[Prometheus Black|Meltdown]] was the one behind Sari's kidnapping in "[[Survival of the Fittest]]". So, when they returned with Sari after the events of that episode, they apparently told him ''none'' of the truth. What ''did'' they tell him?

* This is the first episode in which we see an extended transformation sequence for Starscream.

* When Megatron's energized body sends out cables to its detached hand, in which Prof. Sumdac is sitting, the hand grips around Sumdac, then is yanked under the flooring and over to the body, where it opens back up—with Sumdac no longer within it. (Nothing up Megatron's sleeve!)

* At one point during Starscream's transformation, he strongly resembles the Gerwalk mode of the [http://www.new-un-spacy.com/macrossplus/yf-19.htm YF-19 Alpha One] from the anime ''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macross_Plus Macross Plus],'' one of the apparent influences for his alternate mode.

* It appears that Grimlock has gotten over his hatred of [[Car Robots]], but [[Grimlock (G1)|he still hates Optimus Prime]].

[[Category:Animated episodes]]<div id="wikia-credits"> From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</div>

Nebulon (Headmasters)

2008-02-24T06:38:45Z

216.231.37.133: Added pic. Reworded article to hopefully address the multiple-Nightstick issue more clearly and thoroughly, especially as it relates to the fiction. Oh, also the BWTF.com link was broken.

{{disambig3|Nightstick}}

:''Nightstick is an [[Autobot]] [[Targetmaster]] from the [[Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''

[[image:NightstickReissue_BoxArt.jpg|thumb|right|200px|"'''I''' am [[Wikipedia:Spartacus|Nightstick]]!"]]

While still living on the planet [[Master (Headmasters)|Master]], '''Nightstick''' was an engineer. He volunteered to undergo a unique form of [[binary-bonding]] in order to save the wounded Autobot [[Ricochet (G1 Autobot)|Ricochet]]. Unlike other Targetmasters, where the small partner is held in the larger partner's hand, Nightstick plugs into Ricochet's robot-mode back. Thus he interfaces with Ricochet's metabolism, serving as a life-support system.

While in flame cannon mode, Nightstick utilizes the energy gathered by Ricochet's [[Wikipedia:Black body|black-body]] technology to fire blasts of up to 5000°C. This can cause backdraft problems at high speeds, but Ricochet has other weapons he can rely upon (which is another unorthodox element of their Targetmastery).<ref>[[Talk:Ricochet (G1 Autobot)#Explanation for Targetmasterness|Ricochet's Japanese-reissue booklet bio]]</ref>

Curiously, Nightstick looks identical to [[Nightstick (Decepticon)|''another'' Nightstick]], the [[Decepticon]] [[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]]'s Targetmaster partner. And, to make matters worse, Ricochet hangs around with [[Artfire]], whose Targetmaster partner is ALSO named [[Nightstick (Artfire)|Nightstick]]. Believe it or not, it could be [[Prowl (disambiguation)|worse]].

{{note|In Japan, this Nightstick is called '''Nebulon''', which eliminates one-third of the naming confusion. However, the toy was released in North America as "Nightstick," and it is the policy of this Wiki to default to English-language nomenclature. Thus, we soldier on.}}

__TOC__

==Fiction==
===''The Headmasters'' manga===

On [[Earth]], the [[Decepticon]] Targetmasters [[Slugslinger (G1)|Slugslinger]], [[Misfire]] and [[Triggerhappy]], set a blazing inferno. [[Chromedome]] and [[Daniel Witwicky|Daniel]] were having trouble controlling the fire when Ricochet and Artfire, accompanied by their partners Nightstick and Nightstick (not to be confused with Nightstick), showed up to help. The blaze was quickly quenched, and the Autobots then sent the Decepticons into a retreat.

{{note|Nightstick was provided no origin with his original appearance. It wasn't until Ricochet's Japanese re-release 16 years later that a [[bio]] was written giving Nightstick a solid backstory and personality (still calling him "Nebulon"). Ironically, the same reissue in North America gave him his confusing name of "Nightstick" and absolutely NO character information. So within English-language fiction, the door is still wide-open as to who Nightstick is in relation to his Decepticon doppelganger, if they're even separate characters at all.}}

==Toys==
===Generation 1===
*'''Stepper''' (Targetmaster, 1987)
: ''Japanese ID number:'' '''C-109'''

: Nightstick (called "Nebulon") was included with Ricochet (called "Stepper"). Nebulon isn't even a ''repaint'' of the Decepticon Nightstick; they're the same toy. He transforms into a single-barrelled, non-firing hand-cannon that can peg into Stepper's car-mode spoiler or attach to a separate bracket mounted over his robot-mode shoulder. At the time, the pair was exclusive to Japan.

:The other Japanese-exclusive Targetmaster, Artfire, came with a partner identical to [[Scourge (G1)|Scourge]]'s. It seems there was an attempt to carry over the lookalike partners' names, as one was called "Nightstick," and the other was called "Nebulon" (which is how Scourge's on-package bio referred to [[Fracas|his partner]]). But those names were switched: the Nightstick-lookalike was called "Nebulon" and vice-versa. Thus did yet another "Nightstick" enter the world, as Artfire's partner.

*'''Ricochet w/ Nightstick''' (Targetmaster, 2003)
: ''Japanese ID number:'' '''TFC-15'''

: For the 2003 reissue of Ricochet/Stepper both stateside and in Japan, Nightstick/Nebulon was [[retool|retooled]] with a slender peg extension to allow Ricochet to actually hold him in his hand.

==References==
<references />

==External links==
*[http://www.tfu.info/1987/Cybertron/Stepper/stepper.htm Nebulon/Nightstick (with Stepper/Ricochet) at TFU.info]
*[http://www.tfarchive.com/comics/japanese/trans296.php Headmasters #7 translated in English]

[[Category: Autobots]]
[[Category: Engineers]]
[[Category: Headmasters characters]]
[[Category: Targetmasters]]<div id="wikia-credits"> From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</div>

Talk:Heavy Load (Universe)

2008-02-22T21:10:57Z

216.231.37.133: /* Move to "Heavy Load (Classics)"? */

==Mixmaster? Is that you?==
[http://toyfair08.asmzine.com/gallery/hasbro/transformers-universe/slides/IMG_9053.html Heavy Load's bio]
Decepticon chemist gone slowly mad by his own projects, used to be sorta different? Sounds like this dude's Mixmaster to me. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:24, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
:I had the same thought, but I'm not sure what to do with it. Are we talking about putting his info on Mixmaster's page the way that Tankor is on Octane's? With the latter, we have a lot more confirmation - right up to the Club mag explicitly saying he's the same guy. But Heavy Load may as well have been G1 Quickmix, for all we know. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 01:32, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
::Eh, Quickmix wasn't always a Decepticon chemist. "Cement mixer Decepticon chemist who's not quite all there" has always been Mixmaster's thing. And he's missing from Classics Devastator, an absence called out in the fiction. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:21, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
:::"Optimizing fuel mixtures to increase the energy efficiency of all mechanoid life" sounds suspiciously non-Decepticonny to me. I know that same sentence describes him as "Decepticon Heavy Load," but that could just be an awkward reference to his ''present'' status (plus it's his trademarked name, so...) Now, I totally hear you with the missing-Constructicon thing - it was likewise the initial thought I had. Hell, I'd be tickled pink if the Club fiction DID give him that backstory. But until they do, I'd say all bets are off. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 02:58, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

==Move to "Heavy Load (Classics)"?==
I just brought this up over on [[Talk:Universe (franchise)]], but this is a good, concrete example. Since the ''Universe'' Classics guys have a "Classic Series" label on their bios, I think that's good enough reason to identify them as primarily ''Classics'' characters, not ''Universe (2008)''. It's more informative. Not only is the term "Universe" laden with a sprawling, vague history, but the 2008 line is ALREADY split between ''Classics'' and ''Robot Heroes.'' - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 02:00, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
:I really disagree. "Classics Series" is a subline, if anything, of ''Universe''. It's like moving [[Scavenger (BW)]] to [[Scavenger (Transmetals)]]. The continuity note can be made to be more specific ("the Classics portion of Universe") , but the article stays. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 02:11, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
::That's not unheard of. We have the likes of [[Long Haul (Micromaster)]], after all. The reasoning behind that was different, yes, but I think this new situation also calls for an exception. "Universe" as a franchise is so diffuse and definition-less, I don't think we should give it the weight of creating splits in how we label the other franchises it subsumes. There is no fictional or conceptual break between these new toys called "Classics" and the old ones (likewise with ''Robot Heroes,'' for that matter). Making the ''Universe'' jump our primary label does a disservice to readers who should be getting the most ''relevant'' information, not the most pedantic. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 02:44, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
:::I think this should be moved to [[Heavy Load (Classic Series)]], as I feel we should keep the old Universe and the new Universe separate at all times, as they are two completely different things. The old Universe had a storyline to go with it, the new is just a catch-all name. The Universe parenthetical should be applied only to characters from the original, as they would be considered part of that storyline. More importantly, I don't think Heavy Load belongs in the "Universe characters" category as, again, that should be for characters who were part of the old Universe storyline. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 06:54, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

::::I'm with Kil, at least insofar that I strongly feel that the parenthetical '''disambigs''' should not, themselves, be '''ambiguous'''. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 08:14, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Anyone else want to weigh in? - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 18:44, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
:You're putting too much stock into the name. The function of the parenthetical is to ''disambiguate'', not specify exactly which continuity the guy's from. That's what ''reading'' the article is for. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 18:58, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
::Right. It says "Universe" on his card, and the parenthetical is not about what continuity he's from. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:03, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
:::I disagree with using "Classics" in any form here, but do feel that "Universe" itself is a bit confusing, since the two Universe lines are fairly distinct. Why not (Universe 2008) like the category he's under? --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:05, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
::::Reluctantly I must agree with Walky. The parenthetical disambig's purpose is ''not'' to identify the continuity. It is to disambig- to make it so that this article can only refer to one character. Since there was no 'Heavy Load' int he 2004 Universe line, it does that already.
::::The indented italicized ''continuity identifier'' at the top of the page is supposed to identify the continuity. That is it's job.
::::95% of the time the two will be identical. But they don't have to be. And in this case when the ''continuity'' spans multiple franchises, it ''shouldn't''.
::::(Note: the continuity identifier is currenly screwed up, saying it's the 'classics part of the Universe franchise.' I'm fixing.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:15, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::I'm not talking about continuity. I am, however, talking about two distinct franchises that share a name. I think "Universe" should stay, since that's the franchise name, but I ''also'' think it needs something else {{m-}}like "2008"{{m-}} to up-front at-a-glance specify ''which'' of the two Universe franchises he's in. Remember, this will also show up in Category directories outside of "Universe 2008", like "Decepticons". --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:32, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

::This is NOT about continuities. This is the [[Classics (2006)|existing Classics FRANCHISE]] versus the [[Universe (2008)|new Universe franchise]]. The Classics franchise had been loosely defined by package design and various sources calling toys "Classics." Heavy Load's package says "Classic Series," which to my mind makes him part of the Classics ''franchise.'' Yes, he's ALSO part of the Universe (2008) franchise, and that's the bigger label on the box. If our hard-and-fast rule is to always default to the most prominent label, then so be it. But I hold that "Universe" has become nearly meaningless, and it serves the Wiki better to continue using the Classics franchise identifier where it applies. If most folks still disagree, then fair enough. I just don't want us getting derailed by a strawman. - [[User:216.231.37.133|216.231.37.133]] 21:10, 22 February 2008 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"> From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</div>

Transformation virus

2008-02-11T05:23:31Z

216.231.37.133: Eliminated vestiges of the old title; made a few style edits.

:''The transformation virus is a weapon from the [[Beast Machines]] portion of the [[Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''

[[image:Primal_ModeLocked.jpg|thumb|right|200px|Well, at least you've still got opposable thumbs.]]

{{quote|Nobody saw it coming: a virus suddenly spreading over the whole planet. Everyone was infected. Many deactivated; most just disappeared.|[[Nightscream (BM)|Nightscream]]|[[Forbidden Fruit]]}}

When [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]] conquered [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]], his most potent weapon was a '''virus''' that subdued the population almost overnight. It had many effects, though the primary intended ones seemed to be mode-lock and deactivation. It has also been associated with paralysis, short-term amnesia, and "devolution."

{{note|The term "transformation virus" is a section title in the [[Transformers: The Ultimate Guide|Ultimate Guide]]. It's the closest thing to an actual name for the virus in the [[canon]], other than [[Rattrap]] once calling it "a transformation-freezin' virus."}}

__TOC__

==Fiction==

===''[[Beast Wars]]'' [[Mutant (BW)|Mutant]] [[Bio|toy bios]]===
At some point before unleashing the virus on Cybertron, Megatron tested it on a group of [[Fuzor]]s. But rather than freeze their transformations and shut them down, it somehow gave them two ''separate'' beast modes at the expense of their robot modes. They also gained special powers like telepathy and teleportation. Unsurprisingly, they were able to escape, and they became the renegades known as the Mutants.

Megatron presumably improved the virus after that incident, since the Fuzor [[Silverbolt (BW)|Silverbolt]] would later be one of the few Beast Warriors who succumbed immediately and completely. He also showed no signs of spontaneous superpowers.

===''[[Beast Machines (cartoon)|Beast Machines]]''===
[[image:BM_Virus_Attack.jpg|thumb|left|150px|You'll ''never see it com--'' well, okay, you will.]]
As recounted by Nightscream, Megatron's viral assault came massively and without warning. It was actually visible as a pillar of green... ''something'' erupting in the center of a city, then falling back down and sweeping through the streets as a rapidly-moving cloud. Those who weren't immediately deactivated were hunted down by the ever-growing hordes of [[Vehicon]]s. Despite "everyone" being infected (presumably including himself), Nightscream managed to stay mobile even as the Vehicon ranks increased into the thousands. Running away from an attack, he fell down a deep pit and "went offline." His internal DNA scanner discovered a fossilized bat and used it to give him a beast mode. When he reactivated, he had no memory of the bat or the chamber it was in, and he was stuck in his new beast mode. However, he also found an organic tree with edible fruit, which he used to survive for some time. {{storylink|Forbidden Fruit}} He would later credit his beast mode with his resistance to the virus. {{storylink|Survivor}} However, the fruit diet may also have been a factor, as he told [[Optimus Primal]] and his reformatted [[Maximal]]s, "This'll make you better."

[[Image:Devolvinggas in-action.jpg|thumb|150px|Remember how happy you were when you saw your beast mode the first time? Want that feeling again?]]

The Maximals themselves had also been struck with amnesia and mode-lock upon ''their'' exposure to the virus, though that wasn't the only effect. After their ship crashed, they were hounded by Vehicons firing explosive canisters. The canisters released a glowing, green gas in an apparently much smaller-scale version of the original planet-wide viral release. All of the [[Transmetal]] Maximals were immediately "devolved" into their original beast modes, though they were still mobile. The non- and partially-Transmetallized, however, remained in their robot modes, seemingly paralyzed as the Vehicons overtook them. {{storylink|Revelations Part II: Descent}}

While the de-Transmetallized Maximals did evade capture, they lost their memories of the entire event, forgetting even Megatron's escape from their shuttle in [[transwarp]]. They were trapped in beast mode and slowly shutting down, electric jolts occasionally sparking from their bodies. Primal and [[Blackarachnia]] both somehow concluded, independently of each other, that they could avoid shutdown if only they could transform. But without that option, Primal followed visions to the [[Oracle]], at which point the Maximals seemed on the verge of deactivation. However, the Oracle [[Reformat|reformatted]] them into [[technorganic]] bodies instantly energized and immune to the virus. {{storylink|The Reformatting}}

The Maximals eventually found the laboratory where Megatron had manufactured the virus. [[Rattrap]], frustrated that he couldn't get his new body to transform out of beast mode, correctly anticipated that there would be a "counter-virus" with the opposite effect. Taking it, he found himself transforming uncontrollably. {{storylink|Mercenary Pursuits}}

With Maximals' technorganic immunity making the virus practically irrelevant, little more was learned about it or its relationship to the green gas. It made one more possible return when [[Botanica]] arrived from offworld, though the evidence is scant. Her ship was shot down, and the investigating Maximals found themselves attacked by her feral, seed-scattering plant-mode. She was drawn underground to the technorganic orchard and its pipeline to the planet's organic core. Once there, she began to spark like the Maximals had when they were infected, giving Primal the idea to reformat her. The reformatting successfully restored her mental and bodily health, and she said that Megatron's attack on her ship had "shorted out" her "higher reasoning protocols." She had been running on pure self-preservation, lashing out at anything, but the reformatting had "rebooted [her] primary operating systems." With that explanation, the only viral symptom in evidence was the brief sparking. But whether or not Primal was right in his diagnosis, this would be the last mention of the transformation lock virus. {{storylink|Home Soil}}

===''[[Apelinq's War Journals]]''===
Watching in astonishment at Megatron's takeover, [[Apelinq]] was able to protect at least himself by creating a shield suit against the "residual effects" of the plague. Another advance came when he reunited with [[Hot Rod|Rodimus]], whose "unique physiology" had made him immune to the virus. Apelinq created an inoculant "by mapping and replicating his Spark's low-band energy signatures." When [[Primal Prime]] and his Maximals arrived later, Apelinq intended to inoculate them. But, according to Primal, Apelinq was attacked and hurled through a transwarp gateway "before he could inoculate the rest of my crew." What that phrase implies for the [[Wrecker]]s' immunity or lack thereof is open for speculation.

===''[[Transformers: The Ultimate Guide|DK Ultimate Guide]]''===
The ''Beast Machines'' summary claims that the technorganic Maximals' transformation difficulties are the result of the "last vestiges" of the virus. This is somewhat at odds with Optimus Primal's dialogue, which places the blame on their new bodies' lack of [[onboard computer]]s. {{storylink|Master of the House}} However, if the virus ''is'' at least part of the cause, this could help account for the fact that all of the Maximals reformatted later are able to transform instantly. Nightscream, while most likely infected, showed markedly light symptoms all along (and he had already watched Primal & co. practice transforming for some time). Botanica showed even fewer symptoms before her reformatting, if she was infected at all. And Silverbolt was reformatted from his almost-certainly-immune Vehicon body. {{storylink|In Darkest Knight}}

===[[Devolving gas]]?===
[[image:Devolvinggas canister.jpg|left|thumb|150px|Gas with oily discharge.]]

Involved in the ambiguous nature of the virus is its connection to the mysterious green gas. Its first appearance is during Nightscream's flashback, where it appears synonymous with the virus itself. However, if this "virus" is like any other known virus, it shouldn't be visible. This leads to the notion that the gas is perhaps a delivery system. But if Botanica ''was'' infected on her arrival despite the gas being absent, then the gas isn't necessary for the virus to spread.

Additionally, the "devolution" of the Transmetals occurred when they were exposed to the gas. This has led some fans to think that the ''gas'' devolved them, not the virus at all. However, while the non-Transmetals seemed to be instantly paralyzed, the de-Transmetallized were able to keep moving. So other fans have suggested that Transmetallization was an unforeseen buffer against the virus's full effects, the de-Transmetallization process buying them time before shutdown.

Ultimately, though, the "true" nature of the virus and gas are unknowable, as the fiction contains no clear explanation.

==See also==
* [[Transfixatron]]
* [[Transformation lock lens]]

[[Category:Diseases]]<div id="wikia-credits"> From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</div>

S.T.A.R.S.

2007-09-02T21:25:08Z

216.231.37.133: A few changes here and there. I dug out my old pack-in flyers and have made some corrections.

''S.T.A.R.S. is a group of [[Autobot]]-allied [[Human|humans]] during the [[Generation One]] era.''

[[Image:Stars kit.jpg|thumb|250px|S.T.A.R.S. members received the most advanced Cybertronian cardboard technology available.]]

{{quote|Earth allies like you are desperately needed. We must thwart the forces of evil now!|Optimus Prime}}

The '''S'''ecret '''T'''ransformer '''A'''utobot '''R'''escue '''S'''quad is an underground organization of Autobot-allied humans on Earth. S.T.A.R.S. members keep watch for potential Decepticon activity in their sector and alert the Autobots if any is detected. They are expected to be ready at all times in the event a Decepticon alert is issued. Their membership is a secret even from their families.

'''''Note''': Nearly all information about S.T.A.R.S. comes from toy pack-in flyers which, unlike most Transformers fiction, were written in the ''second'' person. The reader was being actively "recruited" into the fictional organization. What this meant in real-world terms was membership in a fan-club with a few special trinkets and toys. But for the purposes of this article, we include elements like the membership card and the recruitment flyers themselves as part of the fiction.''

==Fiction==
[[Image:Johnny htdduoafa.jpg|left|thumb|175px|"We appreciate your vigilance, but that car parked across the street isn't a Decepticon either. Do your parents let you out much, Johnny?"]]

S.T.A.R.S. was created in the mid-1980s by Optimus Prime after a major defeat of the [[Decepticon|Decepticons]] following the arrival of [[Reinforcements from Cybertron]]. Though badly hurt, the Decepticons were not beaten. They initiated a massive building campaign, constructing hidden bases all around the world from which to strike.<ref>[http://yojoe.com/archive/inserts/stars.shtml "Earthlings: The S.T.A.R.S. need your help now!"]: ''Worldwide Decepticon buildup; description of Omnibot strike; non-human use of Time Warrior; description of membership kit with outrageous promises''</ref>

When the location of a secret base was uncovered, Autobot strike forces worked in concert with human allies to neutralize it. The [[Omnibot|Omnibots]] seemed to be the primary strike force employed by S.T.A.R.S., though the main Autobot force also participated in S.T.A.R.S. actions. Known S.T.A.R.S. members include [[Spike_Witwicky|Spike Witwicky]] and the singularly-named [[Johnny (G1)|Johnny]].

Despite being ostensibly "secret," the organization actively recruited, targeting young humans in particular. Potential members were promised benefits like being able to "command your own Earth sector" and "get instant respect from Autobot allies." Whether these promises could really be fulfilled is unknown; what ''is'' known is that the membership kit included:

*A ''Transformers Control Console'' with Communication Center for monitoring their sector
*A booklet including information about [[Cybertron]] and some Transformer engineering diagrams
*An iron-on patch
*A S.T.A.R.S. ID card that could switch between displaying an Autobot symbol and a Decepticon one. The purpose of this function is unknown, but one might speculate that since "legitimate" Autobot sigils include encoded verification data, {{storylink|(Double) Deal of the Century!}} the Decepticon badge may do the same, and a counterfeit Decepticon badge may be used to gain entry into their bases. To prevent the Autobots from being similarly fooled by Decepticon sympathizers, the card included personal identification data on the reverse side.

[[Image:Patches g1.jpg|right|thumb|When the Autobot army rolls into town, S.T.A.R.S. members wear patches so they don't get shot.]]

If a S.T.A.R.S. member detected Decepticon activity, he or she was to:
*Alert the Autobots.
*Meet the arriving strike force, prominently displaying the issued patch on a shirt or hat<ref>[http://www.x-entertainment.com/articles/0504/ Iron-on patch commercial]: ''Humans near Autobot base display their patches showing Autobot allegiance to suspicious guards.''</ref>
*Be prepared to direct them towards their target

In a typical strike against a hidden Decepticon base, the Omnibots would drive up in the dead of night, transform, launch a volley of missiles at the base, get back into car mode, and get the fuck out of Dodge before the Decepticons could retaliate.

S.T.A.R.S. members were required to fill out Interplanetary Transmission Reports detailing the events.

[[Time Warrior|Time Warriors]] were also made available to human allies. It's unclear whether S.T.A.R.S. members specifically were given them, but their association with the Omnibots and their presence in the some of the S.T.A.R.S. recruitment material suggests that they were.

Not all human allies were part of S.T.A.R.S., of course, but sometimes the nature of S.T.A.R.S. seemed to be evident without the name being used. For instance, a network of human allies once alerted the Autobots to a series of Decepticon sightings across Idaho {{storylink|Menace at the Dam}}

By the year 2006, S.T.A.R.S. still existed in some form, but it's unclear how much - if anything - had changed. The only direct reference was a passive one: Rodimus Prime regaled a young S.T.A.R.S. member with the story of [[Digital Doom on the Highway to Destruction]], the quest for the location to build Autobot City.

Perhaps the most oblique possible reference is when Blaster contacted the [[EDC]] base on Mars, referring to the humans there as "the stars on Mars." {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 3}} Whether he meant "stars" or "S.T.A.R.S." is open for conjecture, especially since S.T.A.R.S. may or may not even exist in that branch of continuity.

==Non-Fiction==
[[Image:STARS-FanClubUK-Advert.jpg|left|thumb|150px|The Autobot base gets very drafty in the winter.]]

S.T.A.R.S. was the Transformers fan club. It started in 1985, and the price of membership was $6.50 (or £4.99 and 4 [[Robot point|Robot Points]] in the UK).

The Transformers pack-in inserts featured an ongoing storyline. The established S.T.A.R.S. organization is detailed in the second pack-in story, and subsequent pack-in inserts (which eventually moved to the year 2006 along with the cartoon) also mentioned S.T.A.R.S.

S.T.A.R.S. members received the following:

*S.T.A.R.S. membership card.
*Transformer Control Center (a cardboard communications panel which doubled as a toy display case)
*Iron-on patch
*Transformers poster
*[[Tech Specs]] booklet containing information about Cybertron and engineering drawings of Transformers.

The Japanese Transformers fan club also included a cardboard command base, which many label the "Japanese S.T.A.R.S." This is inaccurate. The Japanese command base was a cardboard environment for the toys to play in, not a roleplay center, and there was no equivalent of the S.T.A.R.S. story in Japan (at least as far as the fan club went.)

==Trivia==
*The appeal for human allies, initially attributed to Optimus Prime, would later be repeated by the Omnibot [[Overdrive]] and [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]]. Though theoretically a grass-roots campaign, its status as mass-distribution pack-in causes it to read more like a [http://www.snopes.com/crime/fraud/nigeria.asp 4-1-9 scheme]. ''"Dear Sir or Madame, I must solicit you in the strictest confidence for this alliance, I am the leader of an alien army..."''

*The operational model used by S.T.A.R.S. seems to be lifted almost point-for-point from American Cold War paranoia about Communist [[Wikipedia:Fifth column|fifth columnists]] who keep Stalinist posters, radio transmitters and little red books of ideology hidden in their attic. The ones who'll put on their identifying armbands and rush out to guide troops towards vital infrastructure when the Russkies invade. The description of (probable) members in [[Menace at the Dam]] even invokes leftist intelligentsia!

*The status of deep secrecy (bordering on outright obliviousness) surrounding Transformers existed in neither the [[Generation 1 (cartoon)|cartoon]] nor the [[Generation 1 (Marvel Comics)|comics]] at the time. However, it ''was'' reflected in several [[Micro-continuity|micro-continuities]], like the [[Find Your Fate Junior]] books and many odd one-off stories. The atmosphere is probably best captured by the UK comics story ''[[Man of Iron!]],'' in which the Brits are unrealistically unaware of the giant alien robots who've been the top story on CNN overseas since their arrival. (Unrealistic if you think that that story is in-continuity with the rest of the Marvel UK universe.)

*The "Transformers" in the acronym is not just superficial (since "Autobot" already implies Transformerdom), but actually incorrect (since S.T.A.R.S. members are explicitly ''not'' Transformers).

*For some reason, [[Wikipedia:Nemesis (Resident Evil)|Nemesis]] has a real grudge against S.T.A.R.S.

==References==
<references />

[[Category: Human organizations]]
[[Category: Generation 1]]
[[Category: Mail order exclusives]]<div id="wikia-credits"> From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</div>

Talk:Bumblebee (G1)/toys

2007-06-25T14:50:41Z

216.231.37.133: New page: .......Why is this not part of Bumblebee (G1)? - ~~~~

.......Why is this not part of [[Bumblebee (G1)]]? - [[User:216.231.37.133|216.231.37.133]] 14:50, 25 June 2007 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"> From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</div>