MediaWiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Sari Sumdac (Animated)

2008-04-14T13:32:29Z

217.205.110.52: /* S.A.R.I. */

'Tentative' meta-category? (So that one can periodically go through it and clear things out?) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:56, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

== Sandals and such ==

I'm debating undoing the "not a Kiss Player" addition, but can't quite justify it based on the general humor tone of the rest of the wiki, so I'll leave it to someone else. I'm also tempted to change the picture caption, as I'm pretty sure those aren't sandals. (The dark orange parts of the feet appear to be the shoe uppers, rather than a differently colored part of her socks.) However, that just seems ridiculously picky somehow. If anyone else has a good idea about this, feel free to implement it, I guess.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 16:05, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I bet she is a robot thats why she has somehow managed to gain a connection to the All-Spark and also not be completly hated by the fandom yet [[User:Bobtherandomguy|Bobtherandomguy]] 00:19, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

== Adopted? ==

I'm curious... what's the source for Sari being adopted? [[User:CarrerCrytharis|CarrerCrytharis]] 06:46, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
:I think it was her official bio. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 06:48, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
::In the promo material that Unicron.com received, Sari's bio stated that she's adopted. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 07:47, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== Well-liked character? ==

I'd really like to debate that she's "well-liked" so far - I personally hate her, the person I watch the show with hates her, and every Transformers fan I talk to hates her. So unless we're of a gross minority, I think it's safe to say her appeal is not universal. [[User:Combobreaker|Combobreaker]] 09:27, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
:I don't hate her, therefore every fan doesn't hate her. You should try asking outside your social circle--[[User:Carrion|Carrion]] 13:21, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
:::By no means was I trying to say that every fan hates her! I'm just personally annoyed by her being defined as a well-liked character when all of my fellow TF fans - including myself - hold no love for her. And erm, I HAVE been asking outside my "social circle" and so far it's been nothing but "she's annoying" and "neutral." [[User:Combobreaker|Combobreaker]] 20:30, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
::My own social circle also seems to find her rather amusing, so no hate from me or mine.[[User:Pacce|Pacce]] 13:49, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
:Thus far, I kinda like her. [[User:JW|JW]] 15:02, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
:I certainly prefer her than most of the UT kids (certainly anything is better than Kicker). -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 16:29, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
:She has a fairly unique interaction with the Autobots compared to past humans. She and Bumblebee make decent partners in crime, so I can see how this would appeal to kids.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 16:33, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
: I personally like how she's the first girl in an American-made series to be '''the''' major human character, and she's a lot less annoying than any Witwiky, IMO. --[[User:Nightshade83|Nightshade83]] 16:48, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
::Tara Strong is awesome. That is all. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 17:04, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
:::This is true. Good writing + awesome voice actress = character that doesn't annoy me.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:17, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
::::See, I love Tara Strong to death, but that doesn't make me automatically love all the characters she plays. The writing is decent (slightly above G1 level writing but not as good as, say, Avatar: The Last Airbender), but I find Sari's character to be little more than Generic Perky Girl with her Deus Ex Machina Key. I enjoyed Spike as a character more because he really WAS just a human, no "omg sekrit POWARZ" to make him more "interesting." [[User:Combobreaker|Combobreaker]] 20:30, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::Spike didn't have powers? The guy and his entire family probably have an allergy to Kryptonite, and then there's the Headmaster thing. Also, calling ''Animated'''s writing slightly better than G1 gives the G1 cartoon ''way'' to much credit.--[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 00:00, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::Well, Spike and the other Witwickys have 80s Cartoon Disease - just look at the other Hasbro show from the same time period, GI Joe. They were all "human" in the same way. But Spike never whipped out his wallet and used it to revive Optimus Prime. And frankly, I find a lot of the plot devices in TF:CHINS just as laughable as G1, only now with uglier art and more obnoxious humans. In fact, that's WHY I find it watchable - the writing is so similar to G1's lulzy improbability that I enjoy it immensely, or at least enough to ignore the terrible art. Anyway, I'm running speedily away from my point. That is, I and every other TF fan I've talked to absolutely despise Sari. Calling her "well liked, more so than usual" on her Wiki page Does Not Compute for me. It's fine to call her a "generally liked character" or even just "a popular human character," but using the turn of phrase that's there now makes it seem like every TF fan everywhere absolutely adores her.

::::::Hell, at this point I'd even take Kicker. At least his art style doesn't hurt my eyes. [[User:Combobreaker|Combobreaker]] 01:25, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::Geez, give the art style a break already! People bitching about the art style reminds me of when [[wikipedia: The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker|Zelda: Windwaker]] first came out for the Gamecube. People dismissed the game as "kiddie" just because of the cell-shading style, but it was actually a very enjoyable game, just as challenging as any other in the Zelda series. Actually, Sari reminds me very much of Tetra in that game.

:::::::Just give it a chance. I actually prefer the stylized art over the overly-detailed 80's comic look of G1. Plus, is Sari having her key really all that different than how the All Spark was used in the [[Transformers (2007)|Movie]]? Both are miraculous objects that completely ignore all known laws of physics and can bring robots to life/fix said robots in about 3 seconds flat. At least in a cartoon that's somewhat more acceptable.--[[User:Nightshade83|Nightshade83]] 01:35, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::::I've been giving it as much of a chance as I can. And no, sorry - Wind Waker at least had a consistent art style (which I happen to like). TF:CHINS is all over the place, and I have screencaps of Sari LOOKING COOL. Er, that is to say, looking so poorly drawn that it's laughable. I mean, I mostly like TF:CHINS, I really do. And the "but the movie did it!" excuse doesn't quite fly in this case, because the movie at least had the excuse of being directed by Michael Bay. Oh, and the movie didn't use it EVERY HALF HOUR. 'OHAI, it's a new episode, time for Sari to use her damn key for a totally random reason that in no way correlates to the way she used it last episode.' ANYWAY, POINT STILL BEING: I don't like her! She is annoying. All others that I have spoken to share this opinion. It is not reasonable to DEFINE her as "well liked, more so than usual." [[User:Combobreaker|Combobreaker]] 02:29, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::On this page, you are the only voice against. If some more people speak up here with a negative opinion of her (preferably, people who are regular editors on this wiki), we'll most likely change the page. [[User:JW|JW]] 03:28, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::Well, that's frustrating. The only TF fans that count are the ones that edit this Wiki? Lamesauce. [[User:Combobreaker|Combobreaker]] 05:34, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::No, but we're confident that fans who have contributed to this wiki aren't cranks shoutign their opinions at the top of their lungs and claiming everyone else agrees with them. The sort of person that might, say, show up on the wiki and make no edits except one declaring that the entire fandom agrees with him, and then (upon discovering that many peopel ehre do not) accuse the regulars here of being out of step with transfandom.
:::::::::::I'm not accusing you of this- the problem is that the vrank imposing his opinion on others and someone like yourself- actually (presumably) ''exressing'' the opinion of the majority-- are functionally impossible to distinguish in terms of behavior- they both show up out of the blue ont he wiki and make the same edits and have the same argument. So we have to say "Gee, if ''everyone'' thinks this, do most of us think this?" And if the answer's no, we'll usually revert sweeping statements. It's possible that we might be ''wrong'' and actually are out of step with transfandom... but it's the best system we have to guard against minority bias. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:23, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::::If you're not accusing me of this, why would you bring it up at all? I never implied that I was expressing the opinion of any majority anywhere, merely another facet of TF fandom. Please, feel free to re-read my comments. I want her popularity to be downplayed a little because I feel that it's unjustifiably overblown in the article. Also note that I have made no edits at all for good reason; I would much rather talk about this and hope a more experienced editor can see reason and accommodate both views. I hardly think me signing up for the wiki to pop onto the talk page and debate a single line in the "Notes" section of one character qualifies me as an OMG SABOTEUR. (That's Jazz. lulz.) I'm actually trying to be as least troll-like as possible here, but it's hard when I'm surrounded by people who are obviously huge fans of the character. [[User:Combobreaker|Combobreaker]] 02:57, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::Well we can't very well quantify "all others you have spoken to," no?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 05:56, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::::Has anyone actually quantified the "reasonably well-liked" comment, either? The fandom is rather sprawled these days, across multiple forums, so I would assume that there's probably no shortage of negative opinion about Sari out there. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 06:02, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::::I'd quantify it as "is tolerated/considered mildly amusing." That's my opinion of Sari- she's okay-- and as kid-avatar character go she's astonishingly ''non''-annoying. So 'reasonably well liked.'-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:23, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::::I feel justified in discounting the opinion of anyone who consistently refers to Animated as "TF:CHINS." --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 06:07, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::::::So because I use a comical nickname for the show, I'm automatically discounted? Wow. I guess I've been incredibly lucky, avoiding this elitist branch of TF-fandom thus far. It looks like Michael is the only one here who is even willing to consider that there are TF fans that dislike this character. I'm a long-time lurker here and love the wiki, but this is just terrible. I'm not asking for her page to say EVERYONE HATES SARI, SHE SUCKS - I'm just asking that it not read like we all fall over at her feet. [[User:Combobreaker|Combobreaker]] 06:50, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::But people who refer to Hillary Clinton by derisive nicknames in the course of conversation about her can reasonably be construed to have a negative bias against her. Thus casting doubt on your unbiased observation that everyone hates Sari.
:::::::::::::::Besides, you probably only hate her because she's a Paki. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:23, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::LOLWHUT? I hate her for the reasons previously stated. Her race is a non-issue for me. And I really don't consider TF:CHINS to be a 'derisive' nickname, I consider it amusing and fitting for the CHIN-CENTRIC art. [[User:Combobreaker|Combobreaker]] 08:00, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::::Derik was only kidding about the race thing. I think. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:20, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Leaving aside the question of why the opinion of a person who dislikes Animated's art style and uses a silly nickname while expressing said dislike should be automatically discounted, what I was trying to get at was this: How was the "Sari has been reasonably well liked, more so then usual" conclusion arrived at in the first place? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 06:22, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::The "arglebarglebargleonlyrobotsoncybertron" folks have been conspicuously well-behaved of late.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 06:28, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

:Right. So lets go back to the UT kids: Carlos with his racial stereotypes, Bud with his inability to stay focused on anything for more than two seconds, and Kicker, who was ''physically abusive toward the Autobots''. Sure, those are the types of characters that I want representing my species. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 02:32, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
::Don't forget Fred's inability to go five minutes without junk food. Also, Chip Chase is superhuman. The man is immune to acid rain that brought Autobots to their knees and can tear an 5¼" floppy disc in hald with his bear hands.--[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 02:51, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
:::Don't forget that if this show was Japanese, Sari would be making out with Bumblebee on a regular basis and the point of view would be consistently at a below-skirt level. Personally, I love Sari. Best human character in a TF series, as far as I'm concerned. [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 08:16, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Tyring to stay a bit on point here: The line "Sari has been reasonably well liked, more so then usual."

Now from what I've seen, it seems like some people like her, others dislike her (or just her Key-powers), and others seem fairly neutral about the character. The general reaction to the character I've observed doesn't seem like anything particularly worth noting in her article. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 08:30, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
:How about we modify it to say that she is one of the few human characters who have not caused a section of the Transformers fandom to declare holy war upon the human race in the Transformers fiction? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:20, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
::Has ''anyone'' here besides [[User:Combobreaker|Combobreaker]] voiced an opinion that contradicts "reasonably well liked, more so than usual"? If people don't like her deus ex machina key, that might make a valid separate point, but that's separate from liking her herself. [[User:JW|JW]] 14:32, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

:::I think that not even Combobreaker has voiced an opinion contrary to the statement. He doesn't like her, and the people he's talked to (before coming here) don't like her. That doesn't make the statement inaccurate, because it is describing a generalized opinion of hundreds of active fans. Apparently all the editors paying attention to this page feel that in ''their'' observations of other fans, Sari seems to have been better received than most humans. The phrasing "reasonably well liked, more so than usual" doesn't even remotely mean "all the fans think she's great". It means exactly what it says -- she is liked more than most human characters, ie. the majority of the fandom does not despise her. As a rule of thumb, Transformers fans (treated as a homogeneous group) hate human sidekicks. There are certainly pockets of the fandom that hate Sari. But she is, on average, *not* hated. That is definitely worthy of note. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 15:52, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
::::Okay, but where are we pulling this "on average?" It can't be reasonably quantified any more than my own personal experiences with TF fans. That is all I have been trying to get across here. There's no link to any outside polls, discussions, or articles that talk about how popular she is with fans. I find the "well liked, more so than usual" statement to be a little too all-encompassing for my tastes. How about we just say she's "generally popular" or "mostly liked" instead? [[User:Combobreaker|Combobreaker]] 02:42, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::8 or nine people in this discussion disagree with you, and none agree. I'd call Sari pretty well liked unless the 8 or 9 of us are secretly the same guy. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 03:00, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::GAH, again with using this wiki's talk page to justify what's on the wiki! Oh god, the wikiality is suffocating me. Look, in wikis, you are supposed to cite references. Just because the people that hang out on a character's talk page are ga-ga over said character does NOT mean that the rest of the fandom shares the same opinion. I AM NOT TRYING TO MOVE MOUNTAINS HERE. Please re-read my comment. I want her to just be noted as being "generally popular" or "mostly liked!" How horrible of me! I'm corrupting the TF fandom! Jeez. [[User:Combobreaker|Combobreaker]] 03:06, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

:::::::Dude, you're not kidding when you say you're skilled at stirring up drama! As much as I do appreciate Sari as a character, you've made it QUITE clear that not everone shares that opinion. Maybe something along the lines of "mostly well-liked" would be a reasonable alternative, if everyone else agrees.--[[User:Nightshade83|Nightshade83]] 03:34, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::Yeah, what's really crazy is I'm not even TRYING to stir up drama. At this point I'm convinced that almost everyone here is completely unwilling to acknowledge differing opinions in fandom - I really like your compromise and think that it would fit the real-world reception of her character. (After all, others aside from me have noted in these comments that she is not universally liked!) However, it just seems like most people responding to me are overly hostile because I'm new and have a different opinion. I'm getting called names for wanting a wiki article to be slightly edited? WTF? [[User:Combobreaker|Combobreaker]] 07:50, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::::I say leave it the way it is. We shouldn't change the entry just because one loudmouth says we should. Combobreaker, you say we aren't showing any polls or articles saying she is well liked. Well... can you show us any polls or articles saying that she ISN'T well liked? [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 05:54, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::Again, point missed. The way she's referred to in this article makes it seem as though every TF fan everywhere loves her. They don't, and people other than me have said as much on this talk page. [[User:Combobreaker|Combobreaker]] 07:50, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::::We're also supposed to find consensus. We think we ''have''. If you want to argue our consensus is not representative maybe ''you'' should be citing references to support ''your'' point. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:09, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::I am so frustrated by this sort of attitude on any wiki. Just because you are the majority here does not make you the majority everywhere else. I am here representing a differing opinion, which, as NEITHER are easily citable I think BOTH are equally valid. Your personal experience dictates that Sari is popular. Fine, that's awesome. My own personal experience - maybe because I talk almost exclusively to G1 fans - says that she's despised. In this situation I think it's perfectly reasonable to just turn the love on her wiki down a notch, because right now it's going to 11. I'd like to at least see it backed off to an 8. [[User:Combobreaker|Combobreaker]] 07:50, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::You offer no evidence for your position other than anecdotes.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:53, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::Same for the statement that currently stands. Just asking it to be toned down a bit. [[User:Combobreaker|Combobreaker]] 20:26, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::Do you really think that "reasonably well liked, more so than usual" is an 11?
::::::::::Have you considered taking a break from this discussion (which, after all, does not need to be decided today), and [[Special:Contributions/Combobreaker|spending some time contributing elsewhere in the wiki]]? I'm sure you have a great deal to offer toward making this wiki a better and more informative document, so you shouldn't let this one trivia point occupy all your time. [[User:JW|JW]] 10:05, 13 February 2008 (EST)
::::::::::: Please read the comments on this page from other people. KilMichaelMcC has said "it seems like some people like her, others dislike her (or just her Key-powers), and others seem fairly neutral about the character" and Derik says she is "is tolerated/considered mildly amusing." That's less general than what is there now.
:::::::::::Oh, and do me a favor and Google "Sari Sumdac" and tell me what the first result says about her. [[User:Combobreaker|Combobreaker]] 20:12, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::PS: I really want to contribute to this wiki, but believe it or not, I thought I'd start with something small. I had no idea I'd start such a mess just by wanting a character's unquantified popularity slightly edited. That's why I stuck to the talk page instead of editing it myself - didn't want to just jump into editing the wiki itself and piss people off. Somehow managed to do that anyway, but... oh well. [[User:Combobreaker|Combobreaker]] 20:26, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::::Don't worry too much about it, dude. Contributions will be judged on their own merits. This issue seems to have been solved to your satisfaction with Repowers'a edit; I don't think anyone will object to you continuing to contribute. If they do, they'll let you know what and why at the time. /:) --[[User:Sntint|Sntint]] 20:35, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
I am still uncertain that fandom reaction to Sari is particularly noteworthy at all. Is it really any different from, say, the reaction to the Cybertron kids? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 06:15, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
:I think I love you, man, you have been nothing but reasonable and moderate here. I would comment here but I never got into Cybertron, so I'm a little sketchy on the human characters. Suffice it to say that I think trying to define a new character as being universally liked in the Transformers fandom is quite a feat. [[User:Combobreaker|Combobreaker]] 07:50, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
::It does NOT say that she is universally well liked by ANY stretch of the imagination! It says she is "reasonably well-liked, more so than usual," basically meaning that many fans like her BETTER than most other human characters, not that we think she's the mesiah or something. [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 08:51, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

== Repowers's Edit ==

Well done, Repowers. I can comfortably live with that. [[User:JW|JW]] 15:16, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
:Awesome, that's all I wanted. I'm happy now, and reasonably amused that I managed to somehow spawn a talk thread that ended up longer than the article itself. [[User:Combobreaker|Combobreaker]] 20:23, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

== Not human? ==

That's a whoooole big block of text discussing what is pretty much entirely fanwank. Do we really need this?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 18:34, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:Hmn, it is a bit overlong, actually. Still, I think ''something'' from it needs noting, because Tara Strong's interview and the events of "Megatron Rising" make it clear that there's ''SOMETHING'' unusual about Sari. We could just chop back on the random theories as to what she is, which are all fan-cooked-up. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 18:37, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::That's a reason I put in the whole "counterpoints" thing. Reminding them that canon is against them, so stop the fanwanking. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 18:39, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:::3 months ago I guessed Sari was a robot and posted it in this discussion article if this turns out to be true I totally called it. [[User:Bobtherandomguy|Bobtherandomguy]] 00:20, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

==Things That Don't Exist==
Seeing how she, legally, doesn't exist, should she get added to that category? Or is that reserved for things that um...in-fictionally-actually? don't exist?[[User:Omnibus|Omnibus]] 21:44, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:It can all be answered with one question: does she think? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 22:02, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
::I'm... Not sure if that question can be answered.--[[User:Dynamus Prime|Dynamus Prime]] 22:09, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:::We should blank this whole article. There is no information on a 'Sari Sumdac'. (Maybe write that up at the very top and then require page-ing down like 5 times to get at the content, as Chip suggested). --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 22:53, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I tried it to see what it would look like, and I think it works. I imagine we'll change it back if her legal status changes later on. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 23:17, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
::::So... are we using the joke or not, now? I think it was a work of genius. - [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 06:14, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::"Work of genius" or not... when the joke gets in the way of getting information in this wiki, I think it becomes a bad thing. I'm glad the joke is gone, personally. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 06:59, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

== S.A.R.I. ==
It has been suggested that Sari name might be a hint, a sigla of sorts instead of an actual name. Something like Synthetic Android Robotic Inteligence.
That's stupid. ''You're'' stupid.<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Master Sword

2007-11-20T17:28:51Z

217.205.110.52:

:''The Master Sword is an [[Autobot]] weapon from the [[Headmasters (franchise)|Headmasters]] portion of the [[Generation 1]] [[continuity family]]. It has nothing to do with elves.''

[[Image:Mastersword.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Somebody left this out in the woods.]]

The '''Master Sword''', "blade of blades, wielded only by the righteous and just," is the single most powerful weapon created by the super-science of the planet [[Master (Headmasters)|Master]], and the ultimate weapon of Autobot [[Headmaster]] leader [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]].

In addition to the massive blade, the term "Master Sword" also refers to the small dagger-like device housed in the control console of Battleship Maximus. When this is drawn from the console by Fortress, the battleship transforms to robot mode, to which Fortress connects in head mode, forming Fortress Maxmus. To unsheath the sword, Fortress's physical and mental energies must be in perfect synchronization; the activation of the Master Sword and his transformation into Fortress Maximus drains them severely, requiring an extended period of recharging before it can be accomplished again.

==Fiction==

===''The Headmasters'' animated series===

[[Image:Mastersword2.jpg|left|thumb|Now take a nap for seven years.]]

Fortress first unsheathed the Master Sword when the [[Decepticon]]s unleashed a monstrous carnivorous plant on [[San Francisco]]. Unable to draw the sword at first, Fortress was galavanized by cries for help from his Headmaster troops, and became Fortress Maximus for the first time to whack the plant's weed with the Master Sword. {{storylink|Head On!! Fortress Maximus}} The Master Sword proceeded to be a weapon that turned the tide of many a battle, and ultimately forced the Decepticons from [[Earth]] when it perforated the weak spot of [[Scorponok (G1)|Scorponok]]. {{storylink|I Risk My Life for Earth}}

Seeking a way to counter the power of the Master Sword, Scorponok headed for planet Master. There, he attempted to learn the secrets and weakneses of the Master Sword by having one of the scientists responsible for creating it, [[Jack]], captured and tortured. {{storylink|Miraculous Warriors, Targetmasters (Part 2)}}. This approach failed, but while burrowing underground, he located the ore necessary to create the incredible durable [[G-Metal]], and proceeded to capture the Autobot [[Wheelie]], ransoming him for a disc containing all the data on the Master Sword. {{storylink|The Master Sword is in Danger!!}} Combining these, he successfully created the [[Zarak Shield]], which proved able to deflect the Master Sword when they first clashed in battle. {{storylink|Operation: Destroy the Decepticons}}

Returning to Earth, Scorponok initiated a plan to destroy the planet, culminating in a massive battle between the Autobot and Decepticon armies at the North Pole. Powered up by the combining energies of the Autobots, relayed to him through the Headmasters' [[Head Formation]], Fortress Maximus used the Master Sword to destroy the Zarak Shield, and Scorponok's Transtector, saving the planet. {{storylink|The Final Showdown on Earth (Part 2)}}

==Toys==
===The Headmasters===

*'''Fortress Maximus''' (Headmaster Base, 1987)
:''Japanese ID number:'' '''C-114'''

: Available only with the Japanese release of the Fortress Maximus toy, both forms of the Master Sword are included - the small version, which can be wiedled by his Headmaster robot, and the ''large'' version, which fits in the hand of Maximus himself. It is currently unknown if the swords were originally planned for the [[Hasbro]] version but dropped for price or [[For safety reasons|safety concerns]], or if they were a [[TakaraTomy|Takara]]-initiated addition to their release of the toy.

: The Master Sword was [[redeco]]ed to make the sword included with [[Grand Maximus]], and slightly [[retool]]ed to make the [[Matrix Blade]].

==Trivia==
* In [[Atonement|Issue #6]] of [[Dreamwave]]'s [[Generation 1 (Dreamwave comic)|ongoing Generation 1 comic book]], [[Autobase]] is designed to look like an inverted Master Sword, with it's hilt acting as a landing pad for aircraft.

[[Category: Headmasters franchise]]
[[Category: Weapons]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Menasor (G1)

2007-10-11T16:57:38Z

217.205.110.52:

{{Template:Disambig3|Menasor}}

:''Menasor is a [[Decepticon]] in the [[Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''

[[Image:DreamwaveCover6.jpg|right|250px|thumb|Laser nipples!]]

'''Menasor''' was meant to be the ultimate Decepticon weapon, and perhaps he would have been if not for the fatal flaw in his design. His mind was designed to merge together the psyches of the five [[Stunticon]]s who compose his form, but the great depth of loathing the four limb components feel towards [[Motormaster]] has created a primal psychological rift and left Menasor an unpredictable mass of conflicting, chaotic impulses. Extremely powerful, mentally unstable, and prone to violent tantrums where he lashes out at anything in range, Menasor is not a weapon to point and fire, but a raging monster to turn lose on the battlefield and then get as far away from as possible.

In all continuities, he is depicted as being the chief rival and equal of [[Superion (G1)|Superion]]. However, this makes more poetic than literal sense, as the [[Scale|real-life scale difference]] between their component vehicle parts would suggest a rather drastic disparity in actual stature.

Menasor is the combined form of all five Stunticons:

*[[Motormaster]] (leader)
*[[Drag Strip]]
*[[Dead End (G1)|Dead End]]
*[[Wildrider]]
*[[Breakdown]]

:''Italian name'': '''Pentacar''' (toyline), '''Ultrax''' (first series dub, became Menasor in the dub of ''Headmasters'')

==Fiction==
===Animated continuity===
:''Voice Actor:'' [[Roger C. Carmel]] → [[Regis Cordic]] (US), [[Kōji Totani]] (Japan)

Menasor was formed for the first time to counter the new [[Autobot]] team, the [[Aerialbots]], only to face their combined form of [[Superion (G1)|Superion]]. Menasor's sheer aggression drove the Autobot combiner back until he was trapped, only to have victory slip out of his grasp when a newly repaired [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]] helped Superion defeat the Decepticon. {{Storylink|The Key to Vector Sigma, Part 2}}

When the treacherous [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] rampaged with his [[Combaticon|new army]], [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] requested the assistance of the Stunticons, only to be rebuffed by Motormaster. Later, [[Bruticus]] defeated [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]], and Starscream's victory seemed imminent when the Stunticons finally turned up. At first, the rowdy bunch of cars did not care if Megatron was destroyed, but they realized Starscream would not simply stop at eliminating his former leader. Quickly, they formed Menasor, who dispatched Bruticus with one mighty punch. {{Storylink|Starscream's Brigade}}

====''The Transformer'' manga====

====''Scramble City'' OVA====

Due to Starcream's failure to stop the Aerialbots, the Stunticons were quickly sent in, and soon in the battle formed Menasor. Menasor quickly fought Superion and demonstrated a new power stolen from the Autobots: the ability to exchange any of his limbs into different combinations (despite what animation errors would like you to think). In the battle, Menasor corrupted Superion's formation by shooting one of ''his own'' limbs onto his opponent, rendering Superion vulnerable. However, he was soon stopped, and Superion regained his balance. Eventually, the Combaticons came in to help Menasor (though not willingly), forming Bruticus. The two tag-teamed against Superion, but were both stopped when [[Metroplex (G1) | Scramble City itself]] was brought into battle to end the conflict.

====Headmasters====

====''Zone'' OVA and manga====
:''Voice Actor:'' [[Masato Hirano]] (Japan)

[[Image:MenasorZone1.jpg|right|150px|thumb|Hmm I wonder if he's evil...]]

''(Menasor is referred to as one of the [[Nine Great Demon Generals]]. This terminology, coupled with the presence of the previously deceased [[Black Zarak]] in their ranks and [[Violen Jygar]]'s supernatural origins, could mean that Menasor died prior to Zone and was likewise brought back to life. However, this is unconfirmed, meaning that Violen Jygar may have simply recruited the still-living Menasor to be a General.)''

When [[Violen Jygar]] siezed command of the Decepticons, his first act was to recruit 9 Demon-Generals from Decepticon history. Menasor was selected to be one of those Generals and was given the odd rank of Intelligence General as well as new power and weaponry to make him an even greater threat than before. Menasor was sent to the Planet [[Feminia]] to wreak havoc along with [[Abominus (G1)|Abominus]] and [[Overlord (G1)|Overlord]]. Together, the 3 Decepticon Demon-Generals destroyed the entire planet and nearly killed [[Victory Saber]] in the process.

===Marvel Comics continuity===

===Dreamwave Comics continuity===
At some point in Cybertron's recent history, the Stunticons were deemed psychotic and too dangerous to function in society, and as a result were placed into perpetual stasis lock inside of a prison facility. Later, in an attempt to create a diversion while he set his final plans in motion, [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] arranged for the release of the Stunticons. They formed into Menasor and ran amok for awhile, until [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] arrived and began insulting them. Unable to reconcile with this, the five Stunticons began to bicker with each other over whose fault it was that they were failing, temporarily stopping Menasor and allowing Ultra Magnus to ram the combiner in the chest, forcing him to separate into his component parts and disabling the Stunticons.

==Toys==
===Generation 1===
* '''Menasor''' (1986)
: ''Japanese ID number:'' '''D-55'''

[[Image:G1menasor_toy.jpg|left|thumb|Not [[Optimus_Prime_(G1)|Optimus Prime]] and the Autobots in cosplay.]]

: Menasor is formed by transforming Motormaster into his torso mode, attaching a chest plate/scout car, waist armor and mask on him, then connecting the other Stunticons into the appropriate limb slots in Motormaster's arms and legs. Fists and feet are then attached to the limbs. He is armed with Motormaster's sword and cyclone rifle. The Stunticons were available both individually or in a complete box set available in numerous markets.

: It's worth noting that Menasor is the smallest of the [[Scramble City]]-type combiners in the Generation 1 toyline.

: A Japanese "VS-A" set with [[Superion (G1)|Superion]] was planned but unreleased.

{{-}}
===Classics===
*'''Menasor''' (Legends, 2006)
[[Image:ClassicsLOCMenasor.jpg|right|thumb|Not [[Scourge (RID)|Scourge]].]]

:This black and purple [[redeco]] of ''[[Legends of Cybertron]]'' [[Optimus Prime (Armada)|Optimus Prime]] transforms into a Cybertronic truck cab. It was intended to be Motormaster, but the name [[trademark]] could not be obtained. The toy was given the name "Menasor", and the super robot's function of "Super Warrior," effectively making him Menasor, not Motormaster.

===Titaniums===
*'''Menasor''' (6" Cybertron Heroes, 2007)

: A 2007 San Diego Comic-Con [[exclusive]], Menasor is a redeco of the ''[[Titanium Series]]'' [[Hot Rod|Rodimus Prime]], transforming into a Cybertronic... Winnebago-ish thing.

:According to this Menasor's bio, he is a single entity built from the bodies of the individual Stunticons and controlled by their psychotic, permanently unified minds. Whether this same backstory applies to the Classics or Universe toys is unknown.

===Unreleased toys===
* [[Redeco]]s of all five Stunticons were planned for ''[[Generation 2]]'' release in 1994, but were canceled, with only a handful of test shots and production samples made. A small run of [[Breakdown]]s were released as the 1994 BotCon exclusive.

* Menasor was a planned release for the ''[[Universe]]'' line, as a redeco of the [[Thunder Clash]] mold (or, more accurately, the ''[[Machine Wars]]'' Optimus Prime [[retool]]ing). It too was originally intended to be Motormaster at first, but trademark stymied that.

==Trivia==

* An alternate animation character sheet from the original cartoon exists for Menasor. It features all of the limbs in different orientations (the arms upside-down, the legs reversed) from the final model ''and'' the chest sports an Autobot symbol (!), suggesting, perhaps, that the Stunticon and Aerialbot toy factions may have originally been the other way around.

==External links==
*[http://www.tfu.info/1986/Decepticon/Menasor/menasor.htm Menasor at TFU.info]
*[http://www.ntfa.net/universe/english/index.php?act=view&char=Menasor Menasor's Universe profile at NTFA.net]

[[Category: Classics characters]]
[[Category: Combined forms]]
[[Category: Decepticons]]
[[Category: Generation 1 characters]]
[[Category: Generation 2 characters]]
[[Category: Legends of Cybertron]]
[[Category: Unreleased toys]]
[[Category: Zone characters]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Enemy (G1)

2007-09-30T00:35:03Z

217.205.110.52:

I may be mistaken, but I think there's a picture of the Enemy voice changer in one of Doug Dlin's Cybertronian guides. Maybe in the G2 volume as an appendix? I'm certain I've seen it.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 06:48, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh snap! PRODUCT VARIANT! ENEMY ALSO HAD A SILVER FACE!
: Is it a variant, or is the product in the article's photo merely yellowed or the victim of bad lighting? Honest question. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 07:17, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
http://www.emopanda.com/tmp/161.JPG
::Good question, that's awfully gold-looking for a lighting problem... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:10, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
:::I think it's just lighting. It looks like he's sitting in a blue backdrop that's being lit red, turning it slightly purple. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:39, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Also, there was a TF AM radio that, while not labeled as Enemy, I hae always taken to represent him.
http://www.emopanda.com/tmp/DSC01003.JPG

Yes, it's a unpainted cassette-bot hard-mounted to a radio. I'm not making this up.
::I actually assumed that was the Enemy you were talking about the whole time.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 07:24, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

...those are his Microchange colors, aren't they? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:04, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
:One of them. There were three versions of Micross, red (Enemy), blue (Frenzy), and black (Rumble, came with CassetteMan/Soundwave).--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 07:24, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Interesting! I didn't realize there was a Decepticon counterpart to [[Freedom Fighter]]! Enemy really gets around. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 14:36, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

:You know what we need? A "Heads" category. --[[User:Andrusi|Andrusi]] 02:53, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
:: I had considered a "things that are only heads" category, but despite being a category full of Enemy, Unicron, and BW Megs, it would also be full of all the Headmaster partners, which would make it less hilarious. And so eh.--[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 03:00, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
::You think you're joking, but we were totally talking about this earlier. Possibly even partially seriously. There's enough of them! --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 02:59, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
:::We could make it a ''disembodied'' heads category. Then only the sold-separately Headmaster heads would qualify. --[[User:Andrusi|Andrusi]] 03:26, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
::::And Megabolt and BM Megs. And Cerebros/Grand/Cerebros. -hx
:::::And Under-3. Seriously. There's a lot of missing bodies out there. --[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 07:02, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
::::::What about Transformers who got their heads cut off? That'd be a pretty big-ass list. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 07:20, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
:::::::Was it temporary? That probably shouldn't count. And Optimus need not be in every category.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 08:29, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
::::::::Well, there's quite a few who got their heads cut off not-temporarily. Furman beheads people like they're freakin' dandilions. (Especially if he gets to have the bad guy throw the disembodied head back at the head's friends.) Let's see, there's Straxus, there's that Emirate guy in TWWv1, there's Blurr from that alternate post-Time Wars future, and in non-Furman territory, I think the last time we see Octane in DW continuity is when Slag's dragging his head around. The problem with the category is, if we leave out only-heads were were ever not only-heads, we eliminate Enemy himself, since he (sorta) has that AM Radio thing and he showed up in TWWv1. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:37, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
:::::::::So we set it up that it's only people that at one point or another transformed into heads. All the dudes that got decapitated don't count, just people who actively become heads or exist solely as big ol' heads. Optimus was just a head for a while, but he didn't turn INTO one, he just got stuck as one. It's a fine line, but the category is too awesome and funny to pass up. Enemy gets a pass because one of his forms was a giant, head shaped, device. Ditto for Freedom Fighter, and presumably Time Warrior. (I dunno how we'd handle Unicron, but given that he spent an entire SEASON as a big head and eventually had a toy released that represented his evil, ambulatory, noggin, I'd say he gets by. Now those BM battle chariot dudes, fuck them.) -hx
::::::::::That sounds like "Headmasters plus 4 other guys." Kinda a uselessly redundant category. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 18:30, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
::::::::::: [[Seafood Louis|Yes, how silly.]] -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:18, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
::::::::::::That page is only a nuisance to itself. We're talking about stuffing 30 characters' pages with a joke category. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:55, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
:::::::::::::All right, I think I've figured this one out. Category: Disembodied Heads contains heads that do not have bodies that go with them. Disqualifies Headmaster partners and people who merely got beheaded, but still brings in a not insignificant number of entries. This still leaves Enemy iffy, but I say he qualifies because we don't know that any of his non-disembodied-head appearances were actually him. --[[User:Andrusi|Andrusi]] 04:07, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Would you disqualify the Headmaster Warriors?--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 07:32, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::I would not disqualify them, since we saw the HEadmaster Teens in the 'toon. Straxus counts, right? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:25, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::The Headmaster Warriors aren't associated with any specific bodies, so they count. Straxus is borderline, I suppose. --[[User:Andrusi|Andrusi]] 17:36, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Isn't he supposed to have Neo-Zeon markings to be 3x faster?

This page gives me a headache.<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>