MediaWiki - User contributions [en]

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2008-03-15T18:14:36Z

219.95.248.83: /* How to spell Malay. */

==Archives==
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive1|Archive1]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive2|Archive2]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive3|Archive3]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive4|Archive4]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive5|Archive5]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive6|Archive6]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive7|Archive7]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive8|Archive8]]

== Continuity / Timeline ==
I'm trying to make some sense of how the various major continuities are handled, overview-wise. Some have their own continuity page; IDW's just got a timeline, with overview stuff shoved here and there among the individual miniseries. Some don't have anything. Some, like the G1 cartoon, are not much more than lists. The ones that exist tend to be hard to find, aren't categorized uniformly, etc... is there a master format for this stuff?{{unsigned|Repowers|12:15, 29 October 2007}}
:There is no master format for continuity pages. Please feel free to make one! It would be a good thing to have! --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 00:55, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:: You know, I think it would be hot if once we got more timelines up, we began putting Chronology links to the timetable on the story pages. Several Dreamwave comic pages have them, and I think IDW comics should too, since IDW really isn't telling the story in a linear fashion.--[[User:Zodberg|Zodberg]] 09:36, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:::Sounds like a good idea. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 13:51, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
::Would it make sense to have an overview writeup at the start of each timeline, a few paragraphs or so? Or should "continuity" be a separate page? Where should a chronological list of issues go -- publisher's page, continuity page, timeline page? That's not such a problem with, say, Marvel G1, but Dreamwave's a little messier, IDW's all over the place, and gods help you if you want to sort out the mess that is Marvel UK. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 14:29, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:: A continuity page should have the following (in my opinion):
:: * A one-paragraph description of the continuity, not more than a few sentences long.
:: * A list of what media belongs to this continuity (which can include some stuff that's vaguely contradictory, but should exclude stuff that's way out there, like Earthforce relative to G1 comics). This can be sorted by publication order, or internal chronology, but if there's a major difference between the two, it should be spelled out.
:: * An overall description of the main events in that continuity, focusing on the events actually chronicled (not the distant past). In particular, for most continuities, changes in the leadership of either side, the changing status (living/dead, present/absent, duplicated by Straxus/encoded on a floppy, etc.)of the big two leaders (usually Optimus Prime and Megatron), any events involving Unicron or Primus, and introductions of major teams or groups of characters (Headmasters, Fuzors) should be in the summary.
:: * If necessary, a timeline, which may end up integrated with one of the above parts.
:: * Pointers to important and closely-related continuities (again, such as Earthforce), discussion of divergences, etc. [[User:JW|JW]] 15:14, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:::All that sounds pretty good, though I wouldn't get too hung up on following individual characters too much, even the leaders. In Marvel G1, at least, they changed over on a pretty regular basis.
:::On a related note... this and a lot of other overview-type pages are really lost in the shuffle. They should be top-level pages, with everything branching off of them and linking back to them, but instead they're buried and nothing links to them. You start off reading, say, the article on [[Spotlight: Soundwave]]. Where do you go from there to find out more? The IDW issues category? That's the only link out of that page. If you're a newcomer, or even someone with an imperfect memory, how do you know what comes next? Either the individual issue pages need to link to the timeline and continuity pages, or the category page does, or... something.
:::Taking care of it on the category page might be simplest, like what's on the Category:Marvel US issues page. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 19:12, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:::: Yes, the site is sadly lacking in both "uplinks" and "sidelinks" for the media; links from a TV episode to the TV series, links from an issue of a comic to an overview of the comic, links from one comic to the next comic in that series, etc. [[User:JW|JW]] 19:21, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
::::: I'm still poking around and figuring out what's been done and what's needed; it might take a while to figure out how to start cleaning things up. It looks like we've got some random timelines started (still need ones for the Beast era and a few others), as well as continuity pages for some but not all of the major storylines, so I suppose each major continuity should have both kinds of pages. I wonder if there's a way to use a category or subcategory to get individual episode/issue pages to quickly link back to the main overview pages?... -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 19:28, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:::: JW, we do have that comics nav template, though I like the comic infobox on wikipedia more. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 20:04, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
::::: Ah... http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Comicnav ...so we do. Very useful. Now we just gotta propagate it over a few hundred comic issue... :S -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 20:25, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
::::: Also, the nav setup only can link up one level. So Infiltration #2 can link up to the main Infiltration page, but not to the IDW continuity page above that. Would putting a variant of this template on the main page for each miniseries, linking up to the continuity page, work instead? Then you're never more than two clicks away from an individual issue to the continuity overview. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 20:25, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:::::: That, or somehow add it to the main comicnav template, perhaps in <small>small letters</small> above the series name. I don't wanna step on anyone's toes though. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 20:45, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
::::::: That'd make the most sense, to add a "Continuity" level to the template, or alternately a lower-end "Mini-series" option. But hell if I can make sense out of how these things work... that might be a rainy day project, figuring that out. :\ -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 20:51, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

==Image Copyrights==
I asked awhile ago, and nobody seemed to know, so...

I've always been under the impression that images {{c}} someone else should be credited ''not'' just with a note that they belong to someone else, but a ''year'', for much the same reasons we identify ''who'' the image belongs to rather than simply saying 'we don't own it, but it's fair use.' The more info we provide, the more 'seriously' the copyright is being taken. if we wipe our ass with an unadorned, <nowiki>{{fairuse}}</nowiki> clearly we don't think the holder of the copyright is ''important''... or something.

I have a script I've been poking at. It can run through every image detail page on the wiki through a regular expression and pick out which images don't have copyright owners (Hasbro or Takara-- you're supposed to ID which even if you're using <nowiki>{{hastak}}</nowiki>,) which don't have dates, and which don't have any sort of copyright notice at all. (A significant chunk of our images have no notices that they belong to someone else.) It could also drop the offending images into categories to be sorted out and properly labeled. (I imagine I'd give it Steve-o and let it do so logged in as the bot to avoid the update-floods.)

...is anyone interested in this? Does it seem like a good idea? Terrible idea? ...Bueler? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 15:29, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

==Cartoon Episode Format Mark II==
Picking up an old thread here... per some changes I just finished making to all the Beast Era episode pages, IMO:
* The one-line summary should be bold. It's the single most important thing on the page; your eye should leap right to it.
* It should be the very first thing on the page, above the nav box (barring temporary templates like "pics needed".)
* It should be free of links. They're distracting and ugly, and it's kinda absurd to think someone's going to click right off the summary to see what a "Maximal" or whatever is. Links can easily be integrated into the body of the plot summary.

I'd also rather see Quotes before Stats, to keep all the in-universe stuff together before moving to out-universe stuff like writers, air dates, commentary, order of appearance, etc. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 00:13, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

:I agree with all of this, except for the one-line summary being above the nav box. Pure personal preference, though, rather than any sort of functionality - I just don't like the way it looks. In fact, I think putting it below the nav box actually ''helps'' its notice-ability - it "frames" the summary quite nicely between the nav box and the contents box. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 00:22, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
::Heh, I see it the opposite way -- having the summary first provides a frame for the inevitable white space that accompanies the nav box. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 06:24, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

::Picking up on what I said above, putting the stats section down below not just the extended summary but now below the quotes section as well is something I strongly oppose. Episode writers do not get the recognition they deserve. We should not be burying their credits like that. That section belongs ''above'' the summary. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 03:21, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
:::I do hear what you're saying, but honestly I'm less bothered by the recognition factor than by the inconsistency with comic format, where all that junk ''is'' up front (though it often looks pretty bad, IMO.) If it were ''just'' the writer credit, I'd be okay with having it up front (though I ain't gonna be the one who goes back through 78 Beast Era episode pages to change it!) But then you get into the odd condition of having that one bit of info up front, while the rest of the standard information external to the episode's events is much deeper in the article. Having much more stuff up front than that makes for a messy, unattractive, and harder-to-read format compared to having it all bundled in the Stats section... IMO, natch.
:::"If "recognition" is the concern, heck, think of the animators who slaved a lot more than the writers ever did to bring each episode to life. They get no credits at all. Neither does Robert Buckley, who provided music for both Beast series. The list goes on and on. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 06:24, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
::::The information I am suggesting be up front would only be three lines (Written by, Directed by, air date), which I don't think would be very intrusive at all. To my mind, before the summary is the only logical place for this information to be presented, as episodes themselves generally present those two credits up front, and air date is a known factor when watching an episode when it debuts.
::::On the issue of recognition, you make a good point, however my concern is a bit different. Robert Buckley may not get a lot of recognition from the fandom for the music of Beast Wars, but it's not like they give someone ''else'' all the credit on that score, pun semi-intended. But the writers? The fandom often enough acts as if Forward and DiTillio wrote every single word of Beast Wars, and Skir (alone, of course, as the Isenberg Uncertainty Principle remains in full effect) the same for Beast Machines. The story editors are obviously the most important writers, but they didn't do it all on their own.
::::Burying the names of episode writers down below the summary and quotes sections just doesn't sit right with me, is all. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 04:46, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::Hrm... combined with Steve-o's consistency argument, I suppose I could go along with doing it this way, with them all tucked together and separate from/below the one line summary. Written By and Air Date are in one little combined pair of lines now, an easy cut-n-paste to move up front. I don't think anyone's added Director credits to any of the episodes, by the by.
:::::As I said, I'm in no great hurry to do it myself -- my main concern was that the Beast Era show pages had drifted into all sorts of different arrangements, some of which looked pretty sloppy. For better or worse, they're all uniform now. If we're gonna change the layout, let's work on getting one sample page ''just right'', then we can worry about propagating it. To that end, have a look at "[[Chain of Command]]", see if it clicks for you. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 05:33, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm thinking if we could merge the ''Japanese title'' into the '''''Stats''' section'' because it seems to fit the section better. --[[User:TX55|TX55]] 03:14, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't have much of a preference, personally, about how to organize these things. However, I do feel pretty strongly that it should be more or less the same for both cartoon episodes and comic issues. Having different organizational schemes for different sorts of fiction doesn't serve much purpose, and makes things harder to get used to. (On the other hand, I ''also'' feel strongly that all of our passages relating fictional events should be in the same tense regardless of if they happen to be on a character page or a story page, but apparently that makes me insane, so don't take my pleas for consistency too seriously.) --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 02:35, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

==Cartoon continuity headings==
Have we decided on a definative format for this yet? most of the pages with characters who appeared in Sunbow's G1 through to the japanese series (and maybe Beast Wars as well) have quite different headings, and I recall we were worried about ''Transformers Animated'' causing problems with all the 'Animated continuity' headings on character pages. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 07:08, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
:I think we had decided on using "cartoon" instead of "animated." So use "cartoon continuity," or for those who appear in more than one cartoon continuity, use "Generation 1 cartoon continuity," "Beast Wars cartoon continuity," etc. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 07:13, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
::Can we have Diagnostic Drone change all occurrences of "Animated continuity" to "Cartoon continuity"? That'll require some cleanup in the <i>Animated</i> articles, but there are far fewer of those than there are of G1 subjects that are currently mislabeled. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 17:54, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

== Section-title master list ==

I've made a sandbox for the purpose of assembling a [[User:Jackpot/Sandbox/Sections|master list of all section titles]], their relation to each other, and their proper wording/formatting. Please discuss; I've introduced some new ideas, and I'd love to see a consistent guide established. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 01:04, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
:Wow, I think this really look nice and useful. ;D --[[User:TX55|TX55]] 03:44, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

== "First go here! Next go here." ==
I was thinking a bit about the various problems we've got around here -- stuff like incomplete image descriptions, orphaned articles, etc. There's really no one central place where a newcomer (or a regular who feels like doing something useful but doesn't know what) can go to find a quick list of things that need doing. The current help pages just send you to the list of articles in need of creation, which is kind of daunting, especially for a newcomer who has to learn a million standards and Wikia tags. Is there a more comprehensive way to point people in the direction of useful things they could be doing? Whatever it might be, it should include links to:
* Pages in need of creation
* Orphaned pages
* Stubs
* Pics needed
* Any current projects, like the Beast Wars one. Hell, I couldn't find that thing if my life depended on it.
...as well as a note about common problems: dead/missing storylinks, incomplete image descriptions, and whatever else. (Heck, who knows? Maybe it could even distract an IP person long enough to prevent them from screwing with captions.... ahh, who'm I kidding?} -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 21:51, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

:There are some of those things catalogued [[Special:Specialpages|here]], but I think making links to the most important of these categories, and placing them together in one easy-to-find link off the main page, would be best. Perhaps on the Help contents page, since it's linked right off the main page already, in the most logical location? I think that link is a bit small, for what it's worth. --[[User:Sntint|Sntint]] 22:09, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
::One of the projects in the back of my head is a help-page/guide specifically breaking down the creation of character pages, plus the use of "common templates" for them (disambigs, stubs, notes). I'll see if I can scrounge up some time to rough-copy one. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 22:56, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

==Other Maintenance Templates?==
I haven't had much time to do more "substantial" wiki edits lately, but I've been prepping for later with the charstub sub-categories. Fiction really isn't my bag... I mean, I know it in general, but not issue titles and numbers and bla bla. But I figure it's also nice to have the "really needs a lot of stuff" pages separated from the "just needs some stuff in one subsection" ones, especially once I can make a concentrated effort to update the toy sections of various pages. I've been thinking about other similar "needs maintenance" template/categories, but I thought I'd bring it up here since I'm not sure who else might make use of them...<br>
I've noticed quite a lot of pages missing storylinks. I'm not intending on going through a big wiki-wide hunt, but as I go through the stubs and other pages doing little maintenance and tweaks, well, I think I'd like to be able to mark pages I come across that are missing those links they should have. Picture and quote? Isaac Sumdac and/or Tutorbot, "I cannot believe I programmed you with such simplistic information!" (Idea courtesy of Trent Troop.)<br>
I'd swear there was another one, but right now, too tired to think of it and must sleep. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 06:53, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
:Perhaps a tag for a page with too many damn redlinks for concepts that will never need articles?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 07:08, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
::I don't think that will be neccessary, as it's a simple matter of removing the [[ and <nowiki>]]</nowiki>s. Storylinks, though, require some research. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 15:40, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
:::I usually label such pages with <nowiki>{{stub|storylinks}}</nowiki>. [[User:JW|JW]] 15:44, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
::::Trick is, often they're not really stubs, are they? the main info is there, there's just not a "where'd this happen?" link. And maybe it's the data-manager in me that says this, but I think it'd be a lot easier to have a common problem like lack of storylinks as a category all its own, all together for easy identification and maintenance. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 16:11, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation ==

We need a consensus on hiw we handle disambuigation in article titles. We've had some moving between [[Silverbolt (BW)]] and [[Silverbolt (Fuzor)]], and [[Dirge (Timelines)]] and [[Dirge (Whatever the Botcon 05 set was)]] because there are two Silverbolts in BW and two Dirges in Timelines. However, since one of those Dirges and one of those Silverbolts are G1 characters, the (BW) and (Timelines) tags are fine for the other two. The tags are simply for keeping the articles separate; not for telling you what continuity they're in. Plus, (Timelines) is much easier to type than "(Botcon boxset name I can't remember)". --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 23:35, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

:Somewhat related to the discussion at [[Talk:Starscream (Timelines)]]. My personal criteria is that a name used for two (or more) characters in the same toyline requires more specific disambiguation, regardless of the characters' origin, because readers shouldn't be expected to remember whether some character was already in another toyline. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 23:51, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

::So... what should disambigs be?
:# Distinguished ''only'' when strictly necessary. "Silverbolt (BW)" is fine because, while there were 2 Silverbolt toys in the BW Toyline, the other one is actually Silverbolt (G1)- so only one entry is trying 'sits' in the (BW) disambig, and no more specific disambing is needed. Parenthetical disambigs should be the broadest possible category the article can sit in without conflicting with another article, (usually a continuity family or franchise.) Absolutely no 'bumping' of disambigs as a concession to aesthetics.
:# Distinguished on a logical basis. "Silverbolt (Fuzor)" because there are two Silverbolts in the BW toyline, and the article title should not allow for confusion between the two.
:# Providing continuty info. A hypothetical new character Roller in the 2008 Universe line would be "Roller (Classic)" not "Roller (Universe)"-- so that the article title doesn't mislead people into thinking he's part of the 2004 Universe continuity.
::My problem with #2 ''and'' #3 is that the diambig isn't supposed to convey that information. The first line of the article, right below the title does. It will say 'Silverbolt is a Fuzor in the Beast Wars continuity family...' or 'Roller is a Ultracon in the Classics portion of the Generation 1 continuity family.'
::We are currently usign method #1. I oppose a change to methods 2 or 3 for the following reasons:
:# The '''first line''' of the article already supplies the information that solutions 2 & 3 would seek to add- and does it ''better.''
:# Implementing 2 or 3 would make it harder for ''editors'' to know where article are sitting ("I know there was only one Silverbolt in BW, why is my link to Silverbolt (BW) broken?")
:# The purpose of the parenthetical disambigs is not to convey info- it is to keep articles with the same title from sitting in the same namespace. Attempting to make disambigs convey information actually ''adds ambiguity'', because it would force the the locations the articles sit in to become ''less'' standard.
::Let diambigs be disambigs. If we want to make continuity notes clearer or more prominent, we can look at revising our approach to '''them'''. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:41, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

::We already have [[Help:Disambiguation]] to more or less lay this out. (I've just made a couple small changes to it for clarification.) There is going to be no simple rule of thumb which leads to tbe best results in every case, so make the parenthetical as brief and clear as you can. Derik is correct that the purpose of the parenthetical is to give the articles different names so the database doesn't get confused. To help out editors when we make links, it is good for them to be short and easy to remember. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 21:35, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

So, should we move [[Silverbolt (Fuzor)]] and [[Dirge (Decent into Evil)]] and the mirrorverse guys back to [[Silverbolt (BW)]], [[Dirge (Timelines)]] and [[mirrorverse guys (Timelines)]]? --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 22:42, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
:Wait to see if others have strong feelings/argument first. (We have a policy, but it's subject to conseunsus, remember? Also- I think I wrote most of that page so my point of view is unfairly over-represented there.) ''On review, no, apparently this is one policy page I '''didn't''' write. ...why can't I tell Steve-o's writing apart from my own? Scary. :~(
:Personally I say emphatically yes on Dirge, indifferent affirmative on Silverbolt, and wait and see on the Shattered Glass pages. We don't now where/if they fit in existing continuity. There's no point in movinf them a half-dozen times while arguing about unknowables. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:13, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

== Pages about fan sites ==

Is there a policy about this? I wanted to add TF Pulp, but I didn't see any other TF sites on here at all, so I figured I should ask first.
{{unsigned|Might Gaine|2008-02-27T14:04:54}}

:We don't give unofficial sites their own articles. You can link to information on TF Pulp from appropriate pre-existing articles, though. That sort of thing enhances the wiki by allowing people to find further information on the topics they are reading about. Just put it into an "External links" section right before the categories. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 21:18, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

==Cartoon episode title cards redundancy==
Why are we moving towards using the title cards of episodes for the main/starting picture of episode articles? Isn't it redundant to have a boring screenshot with the name of the episode placed next to...... the name of the episode in the actual article itself? Wouldn't it be more interesting to do what we have been doing, and use a screen capture that somehow encapsulates the whole episode, or shows a pivitol point in it that sticks in our memory? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 02:55, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
:I've wondered the same thing myself, but figured it was a done deal. I too support the "memorable/encapsulating moment" approach. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 03:04, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
::Uh... I'm sorry, I think I started it. ;-) When I was doing some early RiD ep stubs I threw in the titlecards because the early episodes were boring as sin. I think McFeely did it for the JP eps because they tend to have those painterly titlecards...
::Really, it's just something you do if there isn't a ''good'' representative image. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:39, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
:::Like Code of Hero (an article that needs a major overhaul itself), I originally put an image of Dinobot's sword lying on the deck of his quarters, because it looked poignant. Did the same for various other Beast Wars episodes. Then Interrobang replaced them all with screencap of the title screens. Gah. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 07:05, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
::::So tell him to stop! ;) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:58, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::Sigh. I did it because I like consistency, even with Japanese series. "Dinobot's sword on the ground" might be your favoritest image ever but it's the odd duck out now. (It also looks terrible due to the artifacting brought about by needlessly screwing with the brightness and contrast.) [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 08:36, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::Consistency is Victory- but Transformers Victory was incredibly boring. (Victory Gundam was pretty good though...) [[The Weak Component]], [[Survivor]] and [[End of the Line]] all have virtually ''identical'' title screens- an aerial shot of the Cybertropolis spaceport. That sucks— I'd much rather have an iconic image from each episode. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 10:07, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::::I agree. Using iconic images is really good for the most episode guides, such as [[Code of Hero]], [[The Weak Component]], and several [[B.O.T. (episode)|others]], especially "Code of Hero" and "The Weak Component" are great and good examples. --[[User:TX55|TX55]] 13:38, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Personally, I started doing for the Japanese series for the reason Derik gives, because it was usually a unique image made for the title card, or a good one that's representative of the episode. There were some duds, but... consistency. And then... ''Masterforce'' started to do really, ''really'' boring ones, and I was about to give up, then it occurred to me to start using the image from the next-ep preview, which proved a winner in most cases (in fact, I may yet go back and change swap out some of the title-card images with these, if it's a better option). The mention of Victory here amuses me, though, 'cause it's a good example of title cards being boring - it's the same two images of Star Saber and Deathsaurus, rotated in and out, for the whole series. I've used them for the first two episodes just to get them on show, but I plan to use the title-images from the next-episode previews for this one. I mean, when I wake up from the dullness-inducing stupor that Victory induces. - McFeely, at work
::::::::I reverted Dinobot's sword back to the version I uploaded. As I had not viewed the page much since last year, I didn't realize that Repowers tried to brighten it up for some reason - that moment is supposed to focus on the sword, not the room. And it's the 'odd duck out' now because some people have been replacing whatever had served as the main image with the title card. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 12:24, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::I brightened it because, when it's reduced for the actual episode page where most people are going to see it, you can't tell what the heck you're looking at. Right now it looks a little bit of vague white stuff in darkness. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 13:36, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::Vaat? I can see if plenty fine there, unless you're using a very, very high resolution that makes everything tiny. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:54, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::Could be my home monitor, which is HUGE. It does look more discernable from a work computer, though IMO it could still stand to be a tad brighter. -- [[user:repowers|repowers]], not signed in
I've changed my mind on this situation after mulling it over. A winner is FNN. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 03:31, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
:FNN sounds even more like a Simon Furman sound effect than FFN :D --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:26, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
::You clearly changed your name after I replied. There's no another answer. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 04:33, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Hnh. FNN never DID want to live forever. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:55, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

==Help/policy page namespaces==
As part of the help/policy page revamp I plan to do... eventually... I kind of want to consolidate the pages all into a single namespace. Right now we have [http://transformers.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special%3AAllpages&from=&namespace=12 a bunch of stuff] in the Help namepsace, and [http://transformers.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special%3AAllpages&from=&namespace=4 a bunch of other stuff] in the Transformers Wiki (aka "meta") namespace. This is needlessly confusing. I vastly prefer "Help" for the purposes of typing it all the time, but, the meta namespace is more general purpose and standard... and possibly required for some pages like the title blacklist. So I am inclined to shuffle all the Help namespace pages over to the meta namespace. Does anybody have an opinion on this? --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 17:37, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
:Help seems fine to me. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:45, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

== "The Battlestars" page disappeared ==

When the "Battlestar" (team) page got changed to "Battlestars", then "The Battlestars" page, which was the manga, disappeared. What happened? --[[User:Might Gaine|Might Gaine]] 13:36, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
:I don't think that page actually existed in the first place. It was a red link before any moving was done - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 14:04, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
::Hmm. My bad. --[[User:Might Gaine|Might Gaine]] 15:01, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

==Comic character box format Part IV==
I believe we should change it from 'Major characters' to 'Featured characters' like we do in the cartoon recap articles. Doing it as 'Major characters' means writers of these comic articles will just not bother list the incidental characters, such as humans, even ones with dialogue, and if any of these characters have articles, they become orphaned articles. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 06:32, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
:Well I have gone thru nearly the entire U.S. Marvel series and I think I've included just about everyone who had a speaking line, except for folks who were un-named and such. If someone wants to change from "major" to "featured", it doesn't matter to me, but I'm not gonna go thru all 80 issues again and do it. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 20:18, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
::I was concerned because I was looking for the article for that [[Professor Goring]] guy from [[Spotlight: Shockwave]] so I could update the article. To my surprise, Shockwave didn't link or even name him, and somebody had eliminated the 'human' column altogether because evidently we only dealt with 'major' characters. Essentially, Goring's article became orphaned. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 20:32, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Well that was dumb; he should indeed be re-added. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 20:39, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Uh, yeah. That's not good. I support the change to "Featured" not just for this... but let's face it, this wiki is not simply about "Major" characters. The vast wealth of non-major character information is what makes this wiki great, and we should make sure that they are properly linked to so people can find them, even if they weren't looking. "Oh, hey, who's this?" --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:39, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
::::MistaTee, well sometimes even unnamed characters can be interesting enough to warrant their own articles if they are interesting in some way/stand out in some way. After all, we have an entire category devoted to unnamed characters. So I think they should have been mentioned in the article in some way. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:45, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
:::::Oh, I agree, and if I've missed any, please feel free to add. I do think the 80 issues I've updated is a lot better than they were before though. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 13:58, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
::::::Of course. Is there article template pages somewhere on this wiki or are we copy pasting every time we write a new article? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:07, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
:::::::I've just been going through the Stormbringer articles, and I was ''not at all'' happy with the with the way characters who didn't have significant dialogue (such as ''every'' Pretender besides Bludgeon) were for the most part not even mentioned in the articles. I assume the original writer of these articles just didn't know who they were, but frankly it's just sloppy considering the information available on this wiki even in 2006. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:38, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
::::::::I believe I reformatted them to the new format, but just copied the character list from what was there. When I get the chance to re-read, I will add in the others, if someone doesn't beat me to it. Oh, and I am copying and pasting from the previous article, but trying to be consistent. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 15:31, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

:So... what becomes of the former "minor characters" list? Do we even care about those dudes? Take [[Totaled!]] for example -- almost every Earth Autobot to date appears in the story (and most of the Decepticons), but the page currently lists only the speaking ones. Gods help the poor soul who decides to take that task on, but when some nobody like Air Raid makes a rare appearance in the comics, it seems worth noting. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 15:25, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
::IMO, I think those characters should perhaps be in a cameos section, a subset of "Items of note". But I sure as hellz am not going thru the whole Marvel series again to do that. Someone else can have a go at it. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 15:31, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

==Navigation boxes for shared US/UK stories==
I wish I'd noticed [[user:MistaTee|MistaTee]]'s changes to the Marvel US navigation boxes sooner, but that's water under the bridge now. When I set the boxes up, I deliberately left out certain links at points where the continuities split and come back together. The point was that there would be no duplicate links in the box. One hopes that the reader following the UK chain will be smart enough to figure out that the only "Next" link shown will lead to the next step in the chain. This goes double for US stories that have the same Next and Previous links for the UK. Why do the same links need to be duplicated?

Compare:
* [http://transformers.wikia.com/index.php?title=Cold_War%21&oldid=129298 Old version of Cold War]. There's no "next" for the UK spot, 'cause it would just be the same as the US "next" link.
* [[Cold War!|current version of Cold War!]] - two "next" links are identical.

Also compare:
* [http://transformers.wikia.com/index.php?title=Dark_Star%21&oldid=152775 Old version of Dark Star!] - no extraneous info.
* [[Dark Star!|Current version of Dark Star!]] - ''two'' redundant links.

To sum up my take on current version:

Minus:
* Redundant links add to confusion
* Double nav box is ugly and should be avoided when possible

Plus:
* Lists UK publication number right up front
* Consistent format for all US issues.

But I've never been one to favor consistency at the expense of practicality. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 17:54, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

:Now see, I didn't like '''not''' having a next for the UK, even if it's the same as the US one. What I think we really need is a revision of the nav box, and maybe have some more options. First, I think there should be a separator line between the US and UK nav. Secondly, maybe some logic could be programmed in so that IF "next2"="next" THEN it would say "same as U.S. version" or something along those lines. Same for the "prev"/"prev2" naturally. Thoughts? --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 18:10, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
::That sounds like an excellent trade-off -- it gets rid of the bothersome parts while keeping the good bits. Uhhh.... anybody have any idea how to do it? The coding of these things is an utter mystery to me. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 18:20, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

== How to spell Malay. ==

Hello everyone, I've noticed that on the 'English/Malay' dubs, people have spelt word 'Malay' wrong. It doesn't have a 'y', because 'Maylay' is incorrect, so if you see any mistakes, please correct it, thank you! Also, can we not put the word crack head next to it? It's quite offensive.--[[User:akindofdrifter|akindofdrifter]]
:It's meant in jest because the [[RTM 1 dub]] is really, really bad, as if the dubbers didn't know what the hell was going on half of the time. But we have been changing such instances to 'RTM 1 dub name:' lately. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 15:29, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
:"crack head" is describing the dubs, and with good reason. Battleship Maximus is called "Spaceship Bruce", Blaster is called "Billy", Twincast "Blaster", Metroplex "Phillip", Spike "Sparkle", Soundblaster "New Soundwave", Minevera "Nightbeat", The Matrix and Energon cubes "Power Packs, etc... --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 15:35, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
::We should probably get the drone onto the task of replacing "Maylay" with "Malay", however. [[User:JW|JW]] 15:42, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
:::I don't know about the crack head comment, it's better to avoid offending people; 'though, Spaceship Bruce is my favourite, next to Wally. Also, you got your drone right here (yay?), but do we replace it with 'English/Malay dub', or 'RTM dub'? --[[User:akindofdrifter|akindofdrifter]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2008-03-15T18:11:36Z

219.95.248.83: /* How to spell Malay. */

==Archives==
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive1|Archive1]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive2|Archive2]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive3|Archive3]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive4|Archive4]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive5|Archive5]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive6|Archive6]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive7|Archive7]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive8|Archive8]]

== Continuity / Timeline ==
I'm trying to make some sense of how the various major continuities are handled, overview-wise. Some have their own continuity page; IDW's just got a timeline, with overview stuff shoved here and there among the individual miniseries. Some don't have anything. Some, like the G1 cartoon, are not much more than lists. The ones that exist tend to be hard to find, aren't categorized uniformly, etc... is there a master format for this stuff?{{unsigned|Repowers|12:15, 29 October 2007}}
:There is no master format for continuity pages. Please feel free to make one! It would be a good thing to have! --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 00:55, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:: You know, I think it would be hot if once we got more timelines up, we began putting Chronology links to the timetable on the story pages. Several Dreamwave comic pages have them, and I think IDW comics should too, since IDW really isn't telling the story in a linear fashion.--[[User:Zodberg|Zodberg]] 09:36, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:::Sounds like a good idea. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 13:51, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
::Would it make sense to have an overview writeup at the start of each timeline, a few paragraphs or so? Or should "continuity" be a separate page? Where should a chronological list of issues go -- publisher's page, continuity page, timeline page? That's not such a problem with, say, Marvel G1, but Dreamwave's a little messier, IDW's all over the place, and gods help you if you want to sort out the mess that is Marvel UK. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 14:29, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:: A continuity page should have the following (in my opinion):
:: * A one-paragraph description of the continuity, not more than a few sentences long.
:: * A list of what media belongs to this continuity (which can include some stuff that's vaguely contradictory, but should exclude stuff that's way out there, like Earthforce relative to G1 comics). This can be sorted by publication order, or internal chronology, but if there's a major difference between the two, it should be spelled out.
:: * An overall description of the main events in that continuity, focusing on the events actually chronicled (not the distant past). In particular, for most continuities, changes in the leadership of either side, the changing status (living/dead, present/absent, duplicated by Straxus/encoded on a floppy, etc.)of the big two leaders (usually Optimus Prime and Megatron), any events involving Unicron or Primus, and introductions of major teams or groups of characters (Headmasters, Fuzors) should be in the summary.
:: * If necessary, a timeline, which may end up integrated with one of the above parts.
:: * Pointers to important and closely-related continuities (again, such as Earthforce), discussion of divergences, etc. [[User:JW|JW]] 15:14, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:::All that sounds pretty good, though I wouldn't get too hung up on following individual characters too much, even the leaders. In Marvel G1, at least, they changed over on a pretty regular basis.
:::On a related note... this and a lot of other overview-type pages are really lost in the shuffle. They should be top-level pages, with everything branching off of them and linking back to them, but instead they're buried and nothing links to them. You start off reading, say, the article on [[Spotlight: Soundwave]]. Where do you go from there to find out more? The IDW issues category? That's the only link out of that page. If you're a newcomer, or even someone with an imperfect memory, how do you know what comes next? Either the individual issue pages need to link to the timeline and continuity pages, or the category page does, or... something.
:::Taking care of it on the category page might be simplest, like what's on the Category:Marvel US issues page. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 19:12, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:::: Yes, the site is sadly lacking in both "uplinks" and "sidelinks" for the media; links from a TV episode to the TV series, links from an issue of a comic to an overview of the comic, links from one comic to the next comic in that series, etc. [[User:JW|JW]] 19:21, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
::::: I'm still poking around and figuring out what's been done and what's needed; it might take a while to figure out how to start cleaning things up. It looks like we've got some random timelines started (still need ones for the Beast era and a few others), as well as continuity pages for some but not all of the major storylines, so I suppose each major continuity should have both kinds of pages. I wonder if there's a way to use a category or subcategory to get individual episode/issue pages to quickly link back to the main overview pages?... -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 19:28, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:::: JW, we do have that comics nav template, though I like the comic infobox on wikipedia more. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 20:04, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
::::: Ah... http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Comicnav ...so we do. Very useful. Now we just gotta propagate it over a few hundred comic issue... :S -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 20:25, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
::::: Also, the nav setup only can link up one level. So Infiltration #2 can link up to the main Infiltration page, but not to the IDW continuity page above that. Would putting a variant of this template on the main page for each miniseries, linking up to the continuity page, work instead? Then you're never more than two clicks away from an individual issue to the continuity overview. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 20:25, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:::::: That, or somehow add it to the main comicnav template, perhaps in <small>small letters</small> above the series name. I don't wanna step on anyone's toes though. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 20:45, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
::::::: That'd make the most sense, to add a "Continuity" level to the template, or alternately a lower-end "Mini-series" option. But hell if I can make sense out of how these things work... that might be a rainy day project, figuring that out. :\ -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 20:51, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

==Image Copyrights==
I asked awhile ago, and nobody seemed to know, so...

I've always been under the impression that images {{c}} someone else should be credited ''not'' just with a note that they belong to someone else, but a ''year'', for much the same reasons we identify ''who'' the image belongs to rather than simply saying 'we don't own it, but it's fair use.' The more info we provide, the more 'seriously' the copyright is being taken. if we wipe our ass with an unadorned, <nowiki>{{fairuse}}</nowiki> clearly we don't think the holder of the copyright is ''important''... or something.

I have a script I've been poking at. It can run through every image detail page on the wiki through a regular expression and pick out which images don't have copyright owners (Hasbro or Takara-- you're supposed to ID which even if you're using <nowiki>{{hastak}}</nowiki>,) which don't have dates, and which don't have any sort of copyright notice at all. (A significant chunk of our images have no notices that they belong to someone else.) It could also drop the offending images into categories to be sorted out and properly labeled. (I imagine I'd give it Steve-o and let it do so logged in as the bot to avoid the update-floods.)

...is anyone interested in this? Does it seem like a good idea? Terrible idea? ...Bueler? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 15:29, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

==Cartoon Episode Format Mark II==
Picking up an old thread here... per some changes I just finished making to all the Beast Era episode pages, IMO:
* The one-line summary should be bold. It's the single most important thing on the page; your eye should leap right to it.
* It should be the very first thing on the page, above the nav box (barring temporary templates like "pics needed".)
* It should be free of links. They're distracting and ugly, and it's kinda absurd to think someone's going to click right off the summary to see what a "Maximal" or whatever is. Links can easily be integrated into the body of the plot summary.

I'd also rather see Quotes before Stats, to keep all the in-universe stuff together before moving to out-universe stuff like writers, air dates, commentary, order of appearance, etc. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 00:13, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

:I agree with all of this, except for the one-line summary being above the nav box. Pure personal preference, though, rather than any sort of functionality - I just don't like the way it looks. In fact, I think putting it below the nav box actually ''helps'' its notice-ability - it "frames" the summary quite nicely between the nav box and the contents box. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 00:22, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
::Heh, I see it the opposite way -- having the summary first provides a frame for the inevitable white space that accompanies the nav box. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 06:24, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

::Picking up on what I said above, putting the stats section down below not just the extended summary but now below the quotes section as well is something I strongly oppose. Episode writers do not get the recognition they deserve. We should not be burying their credits like that. That section belongs ''above'' the summary. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 03:21, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
:::I do hear what you're saying, but honestly I'm less bothered by the recognition factor than by the inconsistency with comic format, where all that junk ''is'' up front (though it often looks pretty bad, IMO.) If it were ''just'' the writer credit, I'd be okay with having it up front (though I ain't gonna be the one who goes back through 78 Beast Era episode pages to change it!) But then you get into the odd condition of having that one bit of info up front, while the rest of the standard information external to the episode's events is much deeper in the article. Having much more stuff up front than that makes for a messy, unattractive, and harder-to-read format compared to having it all bundled in the Stats section... IMO, natch.
:::"If "recognition" is the concern, heck, think of the animators who slaved a lot more than the writers ever did to bring each episode to life. They get no credits at all. Neither does Robert Buckley, who provided music for both Beast series. The list goes on and on. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 06:24, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
::::The information I am suggesting be up front would only be three lines (Written by, Directed by, air date), which I don't think would be very intrusive at all. To my mind, before the summary is the only logical place for this information to be presented, as episodes themselves generally present those two credits up front, and air date is a known factor when watching an episode when it debuts.
::::On the issue of recognition, you make a good point, however my concern is a bit different. Robert Buckley may not get a lot of recognition from the fandom for the music of Beast Wars, but it's not like they give someone ''else'' all the credit on that score, pun semi-intended. But the writers? The fandom often enough acts as if Forward and DiTillio wrote every single word of Beast Wars, and Skir (alone, of course, as the Isenberg Uncertainty Principle remains in full effect) the same for Beast Machines. The story editors are obviously the most important writers, but they didn't do it all on their own.
::::Burying the names of episode writers down below the summary and quotes sections just doesn't sit right with me, is all. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 04:46, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::Hrm... combined with Steve-o's consistency argument, I suppose I could go along with doing it this way, with them all tucked together and separate from/below the one line summary. Written By and Air Date are in one little combined pair of lines now, an easy cut-n-paste to move up front. I don't think anyone's added Director credits to any of the episodes, by the by.
:::::As I said, I'm in no great hurry to do it myself -- my main concern was that the Beast Era show pages had drifted into all sorts of different arrangements, some of which looked pretty sloppy. For better or worse, they're all uniform now. If we're gonna change the layout, let's work on getting one sample page ''just right'', then we can worry about propagating it. To that end, have a look at "[[Chain of Command]]", see if it clicks for you. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 05:33, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm thinking if we could merge the ''Japanese title'' into the '''''Stats''' section'' because it seems to fit the section better. --[[User:TX55|TX55]] 03:14, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't have much of a preference, personally, about how to organize these things. However, I do feel pretty strongly that it should be more or less the same for both cartoon episodes and comic issues. Having different organizational schemes for different sorts of fiction doesn't serve much purpose, and makes things harder to get used to. (On the other hand, I ''also'' feel strongly that all of our passages relating fictional events should be in the same tense regardless of if they happen to be on a character page or a story page, but apparently that makes me insane, so don't take my pleas for consistency too seriously.) --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 02:35, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

==Cartoon continuity headings==
Have we decided on a definative format for this yet? most of the pages with characters who appeared in Sunbow's G1 through to the japanese series (and maybe Beast Wars as well) have quite different headings, and I recall we were worried about ''Transformers Animated'' causing problems with all the 'Animated continuity' headings on character pages. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 07:08, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
:I think we had decided on using "cartoon" instead of "animated." So use "cartoon continuity," or for those who appear in more than one cartoon continuity, use "Generation 1 cartoon continuity," "Beast Wars cartoon continuity," etc. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 07:13, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
::Can we have Diagnostic Drone change all occurrences of "Animated continuity" to "Cartoon continuity"? That'll require some cleanup in the <i>Animated</i> articles, but there are far fewer of those than there are of G1 subjects that are currently mislabeled. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 17:54, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

== Section-title master list ==

I've made a sandbox for the purpose of assembling a [[User:Jackpot/Sandbox/Sections|master list of all section titles]], their relation to each other, and their proper wording/formatting. Please discuss; I've introduced some new ideas, and I'd love to see a consistent guide established. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 01:04, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
:Wow, I think this really look nice and useful. ;D --[[User:TX55|TX55]] 03:44, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

== "First go here! Next go here." ==
I was thinking a bit about the various problems we've got around here -- stuff like incomplete image descriptions, orphaned articles, etc. There's really no one central place where a newcomer (or a regular who feels like doing something useful but doesn't know what) can go to find a quick list of things that need doing. The current help pages just send you to the list of articles in need of creation, which is kind of daunting, especially for a newcomer who has to learn a million standards and Wikia tags. Is there a more comprehensive way to point people in the direction of useful things they could be doing? Whatever it might be, it should include links to:
* Pages in need of creation
* Orphaned pages
* Stubs
* Pics needed
* Any current projects, like the Beast Wars one. Hell, I couldn't find that thing if my life depended on it.
...as well as a note about common problems: dead/missing storylinks, incomplete image descriptions, and whatever else. (Heck, who knows? Maybe it could even distract an IP person long enough to prevent them from screwing with captions.... ahh, who'm I kidding?} -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 21:51, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

:There are some of those things catalogued [[Special:Specialpages|here]], but I think making links to the most important of these categories, and placing them together in one easy-to-find link off the main page, would be best. Perhaps on the Help contents page, since it's linked right off the main page already, in the most logical location? I think that link is a bit small, for what it's worth. --[[User:Sntint|Sntint]] 22:09, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
::One of the projects in the back of my head is a help-page/guide specifically breaking down the creation of character pages, plus the use of "common templates" for them (disambigs, stubs, notes). I'll see if I can scrounge up some time to rough-copy one. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 22:56, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

==Other Maintenance Templates?==
I haven't had much time to do more "substantial" wiki edits lately, but I've been prepping for later with the charstub sub-categories. Fiction really isn't my bag... I mean, I know it in general, but not issue titles and numbers and bla bla. But I figure it's also nice to have the "really needs a lot of stuff" pages separated from the "just needs some stuff in one subsection" ones, especially once I can make a concentrated effort to update the toy sections of various pages. I've been thinking about other similar "needs maintenance" template/categories, but I thought I'd bring it up here since I'm not sure who else might make use of them...<br>
I've noticed quite a lot of pages missing storylinks. I'm not intending on going through a big wiki-wide hunt, but as I go through the stubs and other pages doing little maintenance and tweaks, well, I think I'd like to be able to mark pages I come across that are missing those links they should have. Picture and quote? Isaac Sumdac and/or Tutorbot, "I cannot believe I programmed you with such simplistic information!" (Idea courtesy of Trent Troop.)<br>
I'd swear there was another one, but right now, too tired to think of it and must sleep. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 06:53, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
:Perhaps a tag for a page with too many damn redlinks for concepts that will never need articles?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 07:08, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
::I don't think that will be neccessary, as it's a simple matter of removing the [[ and <nowiki>]]</nowiki>s. Storylinks, though, require some research. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 15:40, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
:::I usually label such pages with <nowiki>{{stub|storylinks}}</nowiki>. [[User:JW|JW]] 15:44, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
::::Trick is, often they're not really stubs, are they? the main info is there, there's just not a "where'd this happen?" link. And maybe it's the data-manager in me that says this, but I think it'd be a lot easier to have a common problem like lack of storylinks as a category all its own, all together for easy identification and maintenance. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 16:11, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation ==

We need a consensus on hiw we handle disambuigation in article titles. We've had some moving between [[Silverbolt (BW)]] and [[Silverbolt (Fuzor)]], and [[Dirge (Timelines)]] and [[Dirge (Whatever the Botcon 05 set was)]] because there are two Silverbolts in BW and two Dirges in Timelines. However, since one of those Dirges and one of those Silverbolts are G1 characters, the (BW) and (Timelines) tags are fine for the other two. The tags are simply for keeping the articles separate; not for telling you what continuity they're in. Plus, (Timelines) is much easier to type than "(Botcon boxset name I can't remember)". --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 23:35, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

:Somewhat related to the discussion at [[Talk:Starscream (Timelines)]]. My personal criteria is that a name used for two (or more) characters in the same toyline requires more specific disambiguation, regardless of the characters' origin, because readers shouldn't be expected to remember whether some character was already in another toyline. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 23:51, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

::So... what should disambigs be?
:# Distinguished ''only'' when strictly necessary. "Silverbolt (BW)" is fine because, while there were 2 Silverbolt toys in the BW Toyline, the other one is actually Silverbolt (G1)- so only one entry is trying 'sits' in the (BW) disambig, and no more specific disambing is needed. Parenthetical disambigs should be the broadest possible category the article can sit in without conflicting with another article, (usually a continuity family or franchise.) Absolutely no 'bumping' of disambigs as a concession to aesthetics.
:# Distinguished on a logical basis. "Silverbolt (Fuzor)" because there are two Silverbolts in the BW toyline, and the article title should not allow for confusion between the two.
:# Providing continuty info. A hypothetical new character Roller in the 2008 Universe line would be "Roller (Classic)" not "Roller (Universe)"-- so that the article title doesn't mislead people into thinking he's part of the 2004 Universe continuity.
::My problem with #2 ''and'' #3 is that the diambig isn't supposed to convey that information. The first line of the article, right below the title does. It will say 'Silverbolt is a Fuzor in the Beast Wars continuity family...' or 'Roller is a Ultracon in the Classics portion of the Generation 1 continuity family.'
::We are currently usign method #1. I oppose a change to methods 2 or 3 for the following reasons:
:# The '''first line''' of the article already supplies the information that solutions 2 & 3 would seek to add- and does it ''better.''
:# Implementing 2 or 3 would make it harder for ''editors'' to know where article are sitting ("I know there was only one Silverbolt in BW, why is my link to Silverbolt (BW) broken?")
:# The purpose of the parenthetical disambigs is not to convey info- it is to keep articles with the same title from sitting in the same namespace. Attempting to make disambigs convey information actually ''adds ambiguity'', because it would force the the locations the articles sit in to become ''less'' standard.
::Let diambigs be disambigs. If we want to make continuity notes clearer or more prominent, we can look at revising our approach to '''them'''. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:41, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

::We already have [[Help:Disambiguation]] to more or less lay this out. (I've just made a couple small changes to it for clarification.) There is going to be no simple rule of thumb which leads to tbe best results in every case, so make the parenthetical as brief and clear as you can. Derik is correct that the purpose of the parenthetical is to give the articles different names so the database doesn't get confused. To help out editors when we make links, it is good for them to be short and easy to remember. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 21:35, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

So, should we move [[Silverbolt (Fuzor)]] and [[Dirge (Decent into Evil)]] and the mirrorverse guys back to [[Silverbolt (BW)]], [[Dirge (Timelines)]] and [[mirrorverse guys (Timelines)]]? --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 22:42, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
:Wait to see if others have strong feelings/argument first. (We have a policy, but it's subject to conseunsus, remember? Also- I think I wrote most of that page so my point of view is unfairly over-represented there.) ''On review, no, apparently this is one policy page I '''didn't''' write. ...why can't I tell Steve-o's writing apart from my own? Scary. :~(
:Personally I say emphatically yes on Dirge, indifferent affirmative on Silverbolt, and wait and see on the Shattered Glass pages. We don't now where/if they fit in existing continuity. There's no point in movinf them a half-dozen times while arguing about unknowables. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:13, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

== Pages about fan sites ==

Is there a policy about this? I wanted to add TF Pulp, but I didn't see any other TF sites on here at all, so I figured I should ask first.
{{unsigned|Might Gaine|2008-02-27T14:04:54}}

:We don't give unofficial sites their own articles. You can link to information on TF Pulp from appropriate pre-existing articles, though. That sort of thing enhances the wiki by allowing people to find further information on the topics they are reading about. Just put it into an "External links" section right before the categories. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 21:18, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

==Cartoon episode title cards redundancy==
Why are we moving towards using the title cards of episodes for the main/starting picture of episode articles? Isn't it redundant to have a boring screenshot with the name of the episode placed next to...... the name of the episode in the actual article itself? Wouldn't it be more interesting to do what we have been doing, and use a screen capture that somehow encapsulates the whole episode, or shows a pivitol point in it that sticks in our memory? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 02:55, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
:I've wondered the same thing myself, but figured it was a done deal. I too support the "memorable/encapsulating moment" approach. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 03:04, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
::Uh... I'm sorry, I think I started it. ;-) When I was doing some early RiD ep stubs I threw in the titlecards because the early episodes were boring as sin. I think McFeely did it for the JP eps because they tend to have those painterly titlecards...
::Really, it's just something you do if there isn't a ''good'' representative image. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:39, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
:::Like Code of Hero (an article that needs a major overhaul itself), I originally put an image of Dinobot's sword lying on the deck of his quarters, because it looked poignant. Did the same for various other Beast Wars episodes. Then Interrobang replaced them all with screencap of the title screens. Gah. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 07:05, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
::::So tell him to stop! ;) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:58, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::Sigh. I did it because I like consistency, even with Japanese series. "Dinobot's sword on the ground" might be your favoritest image ever but it's the odd duck out now. (It also looks terrible due to the artifacting brought about by needlessly screwing with the brightness and contrast.) [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 08:36, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::Consistency is Victory- but Transformers Victory was incredibly boring. (Victory Gundam was pretty good though...) [[The Weak Component]], [[Survivor]] and [[End of the Line]] all have virtually ''identical'' title screens- an aerial shot of the Cybertropolis spaceport. That sucks— I'd much rather have an iconic image from each episode. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 10:07, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::::I agree. Using iconic images is really good for the most episode guides, such as [[Code of Hero]], [[The Weak Component]], and several [[B.O.T. (episode)|others]], especially "Code of Hero" and "The Weak Component" are great and good examples. --[[User:TX55|TX55]] 13:38, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Personally, I started doing for the Japanese series for the reason Derik gives, because it was usually a unique image made for the title card, or a good one that's representative of the episode. There were some duds, but... consistency. And then... ''Masterforce'' started to do really, ''really'' boring ones, and I was about to give up, then it occurred to me to start using the image from the next-ep preview, which proved a winner in most cases (in fact, I may yet go back and change swap out some of the title-card images with these, if it's a better option). The mention of Victory here amuses me, though, 'cause it's a good example of title cards being boring - it's the same two images of Star Saber and Deathsaurus, rotated in and out, for the whole series. I've used them for the first two episodes just to get them on show, but I plan to use the title-images from the next-episode previews for this one. I mean, when I wake up from the dullness-inducing stupor that Victory induces. - McFeely, at work
::::::::I reverted Dinobot's sword back to the version I uploaded. As I had not viewed the page much since last year, I didn't realize that Repowers tried to brighten it up for some reason - that moment is supposed to focus on the sword, not the room. And it's the 'odd duck out' now because some people have been replacing whatever had served as the main image with the title card. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 12:24, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::I brightened it because, when it's reduced for the actual episode page where most people are going to see it, you can't tell what the heck you're looking at. Right now it looks a little bit of vague white stuff in darkness. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 13:36, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::Vaat? I can see if plenty fine there, unless you're using a very, very high resolution that makes everything tiny. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:54, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::Could be my home monitor, which is HUGE. It does look more discernable from a work computer, though IMO it could still stand to be a tad brighter. -- [[user:repowers|repowers]], not signed in
I've changed my mind on this situation after mulling it over. A winner is FNN. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 03:31, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
:FNN sounds even more like a Simon Furman sound effect than FFN :D --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:26, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
::You clearly changed your name after I replied. There's no another answer. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 04:33, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Hnh. FNN never DID want to live forever. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:55, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

==Help/policy page namespaces==
As part of the help/policy page revamp I plan to do... eventually... I kind of want to consolidate the pages all into a single namespace. Right now we have [http://transformers.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special%3AAllpages&from=&namespace=12 a bunch of stuff] in the Help namepsace, and [http://transformers.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special%3AAllpages&from=&namespace=4 a bunch of other stuff] in the Transformers Wiki (aka "meta") namespace. This is needlessly confusing. I vastly prefer "Help" for the purposes of typing it all the time, but, the meta namespace is more general purpose and standard... and possibly required for some pages like the title blacklist. So I am inclined to shuffle all the Help namespace pages over to the meta namespace. Does anybody have an opinion on this? --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 17:37, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
:Help seems fine to me. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:45, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

== "The Battlestars" page disappeared ==

When the "Battlestar" (team) page got changed to "Battlestars", then "The Battlestars" page, which was the manga, disappeared. What happened? --[[User:Might Gaine|Might Gaine]] 13:36, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
:I don't think that page actually existed in the first place. It was a red link before any moving was done - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 14:04, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
::Hmm. My bad. --[[User:Might Gaine|Might Gaine]] 15:01, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

==Comic character box format Part IV==
I believe we should change it from 'Major characters' to 'Featured characters' like we do in the cartoon recap articles. Doing it as 'Major characters' means writers of these comic articles will just not bother list the incidental characters, such as humans, even ones with dialogue, and if any of these characters have articles, they become orphaned articles. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 06:32, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
:Well I have gone thru nearly the entire U.S. Marvel series and I think I've included just about everyone who had a speaking line, except for folks who were un-named and such. If someone wants to change from "major" to "featured", it doesn't matter to me, but I'm not gonna go thru all 80 issues again and do it. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 20:18, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
::I was concerned because I was looking for the article for that [[Professor Goring]] guy from [[Spotlight: Shockwave]] so I could update the article. To my surprise, Shockwave didn't link or even name him, and somebody had eliminated the 'human' column altogether because evidently we only dealt with 'major' characters. Essentially, Goring's article became orphaned. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 20:32, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Well that was dumb; he should indeed be re-added. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 20:39, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Uh, yeah. That's not good. I support the change to "Featured" not just for this... but let's face it, this wiki is not simply about "Major" characters. The vast wealth of non-major character information is what makes this wiki great, and we should make sure that they are properly linked to so people can find them, even if they weren't looking. "Oh, hey, who's this?" --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:39, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
::::MistaTee, well sometimes even unnamed characters can be interesting enough to warrant their own articles if they are interesting in some way/stand out in some way. After all, we have an entire category devoted to unnamed characters. So I think they should have been mentioned in the article in some way. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:45, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
:::::Oh, I agree, and if I've missed any, please feel free to add. I do think the 80 issues I've updated is a lot better than they were before though. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 13:58, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
::::::Of course. Is there article template pages somewhere on this wiki or are we copy pasting every time we write a new article? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:07, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
:::::::I've just been going through the Stormbringer articles, and I was ''not at all'' happy with the with the way characters who didn't have significant dialogue (such as ''every'' Pretender besides Bludgeon) were for the most part not even mentioned in the articles. I assume the original writer of these articles just didn't know who they were, but frankly it's just sloppy considering the information available on this wiki even in 2006. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:38, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
::::::::I believe I reformatted them to the new format, but just copied the character list from what was there. When I get the chance to re-read, I will add in the others, if someone doesn't beat me to it. Oh, and I am copying and pasting from the previous article, but trying to be consistent. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 15:31, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

:So... what becomes of the former "minor characters" list? Do we even care about those dudes? Take [[Totaled!]] for example -- almost every Earth Autobot to date appears in the story (and most of the Decepticons), but the page currently lists only the speaking ones. Gods help the poor soul who decides to take that task on, but when some nobody like Air Raid makes a rare appearance in the comics, it seems worth noting. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 15:25, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
::IMO, I think those characters should perhaps be in a cameos section, a subset of "Items of note". But I sure as hellz am not going thru the whole Marvel series again to do that. Someone else can have a go at it. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 15:31, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

==Navigation boxes for shared US/UK stories==
I wish I'd noticed [[user:MistaTee|MistaTee]]'s changes to the Marvel US navigation boxes sooner, but that's water under the bridge now. When I set the boxes up, I deliberately left out certain links at points where the continuities split and come back together. The point was that there would be no duplicate links in the box. One hopes that the reader following the UK chain will be smart enough to figure out that the only "Next" link shown will lead to the next step in the chain. This goes double for US stories that have the same Next and Previous links for the UK. Why do the same links need to be duplicated?

Compare:
* [http://transformers.wikia.com/index.php?title=Cold_War%21&oldid=129298 Old version of Cold War]. There's no "next" for the UK spot, 'cause it would just be the same as the US "next" link.
* [[Cold War!|current version of Cold War!]] - two "next" links are identical.

Also compare:
* [http://transformers.wikia.com/index.php?title=Dark_Star%21&oldid=152775 Old version of Dark Star!] - no extraneous info.
* [[Dark Star!|Current version of Dark Star!]] - ''two'' redundant links.

To sum up my take on current version:

Minus:
* Redundant links add to confusion
* Double nav box is ugly and should be avoided when possible

Plus:
* Lists UK publication number right up front
* Consistent format for all US issues.

But I've never been one to favor consistency at the expense of practicality. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 17:54, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

:Now see, I didn't like '''not''' having a next for the UK, even if it's the same as the US one. What I think we really need is a revision of the nav box, and maybe have some more options. First, I think there should be a separator line between the US and UK nav. Secondly, maybe some logic could be programmed in so that IF "next2"="next" THEN it would say "same as U.S. version" or something along those lines. Same for the "prev"/"prev2" naturally. Thoughts? --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 18:10, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
::That sounds like an excellent trade-off -- it gets rid of the bothersome parts while keeping the good bits. Uhhh.... anybody have any idea how to do it? The coding of these things is an utter mystery to me. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 18:20, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

== How to spell Malay. ==

Hello everyone, I've noticed that on the 'English/Malay' dubs, people have spelt word 'Malay' wrong. It doesn't have a 'y', because 'Maylay' is incorrect, so if you see any mistakes, please correct it, thank you! Also, can we not put the word crack head next to it? It's quite offensive.--[[User:akindofdrifter|akindofdrifter]]
:It's meant in jest because the [[RTM 1 dub]] is really, really bad, as if the dubbers didn't know what the hell was going on half of the time. But we have been changing such instances to 'RTM 1 dub name:' lately. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 15:29, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
:"crack head" is describing the dubs, and with good reason. Battleship Maximus is called "Spaceship Bruce", Blaster is called "Billy", Twincast "Blaster", Metroplex "Phillip", Spike "Sparkle", Soundblaster "New Soundwave", Minevera "Nightbeat", The Matrix and Energon cubes "Power Packs, etc... --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 15:35, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
::We should probably get the drone onto the task of replacing "Maylay" with "Malay", however. [[User:JW|JW]] 15:42, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
:::I don't know about the crack head comment, but it's better to avoid offending people; 'though, Spaceship Bruce is my favourite, next to Wally. Also, you got your drone right here (yay?), but do we replace it with 'English/Malay dub', or 'RTM dub'? --[[User:akindofdrifter|akindofdrifter]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Ravage (G1)

2008-03-15T15:45:01Z

219.95.248.83:

{{disambig2|the Generation 1 Decepticon|the Energon Terrorcon|Battle Ravage (Energon)}}

:''Ravage was a [[Decepticon]], then a [[Predacon (BW)|Predacon]], and then a [[Decepticon]] again in the [[Generation 1]] and [[Beast Era]] and then [[Generation 1]] [[continuity family|continuity families]]. It's all very confusing.''

[[Image:Ravageboxart.jpg|right|thumb|350px|This is [[Ravage#Trivia|every comic book panel]] Ravage has ever been in. Well, okay, sometimes they rotate him a bit.]]

No Decepticon has a stronger loyalty to [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] than '''Ravage'''. One of [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]]'s most reliable [[Mini-Cassette|spies]], Ravage believes unwaveringly in the Decepticon cause, and Megatron embodies that cause. To better serve Megatron and the Decepticons, Ravage has become the most efficient and deadly war machine under his command. He hides himself in the shadows, waiting for the perfect moment to strike with grim accuracy. His name is synonymous with stealth. His survivors are few.

Ravage's only weakness is bright light, which can temporarily blind him. Perhaps his absolute loyalty to Megatron can blind him as well.

Sometimes he's a talker, other times he just growls or hisses at anything that isn't Megatron or Soundwave.
{{quote|Decepticons forever!|Ravage|"[[The Agenda (Part 2)]]"}}

:''Japanese name:'' '''Jaguar'''<br>
:''Italian name:'' '''Iena''' (meaning Hyena)<br>
:''Swedish cartoon name:'' '''Hunden'''<br>
:''Hungarian name:'' '''Romboló''' (meaning Ravager)<br>
:''Spanish name:'' '''Destructor'''

==Fiction==
According to the UK book [[Dinobot War]], Ravage's cassette tape mode is disguised as the soundtrack to ''[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cats_(musical) Cats].''

===Marvel Comics continuity===
{{noteukonly}}

[[Image:Contentedfools.jpg|200px|left|thumb|Ravage, here in his first appearance, is the first Transformer to have dialogue in the [[The Transformers (comic issue)|first Transformers story]].]]

''Ravage was loyal bodyguard for the [[Overlord (Autobot)|Overlords]], the Autobots that once ruled all of Cybertron, for generations. He witnessed as their planet-wide rule crumbled into a loose collection of feuding city-states. Like ancient Rome, the last Overlord barely managed to hold together the autocracy through the gladiatorial games, which allowed the city-states to vent their frustrations over low fuel supplies on each other in scripted, controlled conflicts. A war broke out between [[Vos]] and [[Tarn]], however, and Ravage and his partner [[Nightstalker]] attempted to escort the Overlord to safety. Joined by the gladiators [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] and [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]], their journey was perilous. The Overlord was now an enfeebled mechanoid who required constant re-energization to survive, and constantly slowed them down. After Prime raced ahead to get help, Nightstalker self-destructed himself in a final loyal act to defend the Overlord, leaving the ruler alone with Megatron and Ravage. Though the Overlord was near death, Ravage refused to give the Overlord any of his energy, instead allying himself with Megatron, whom he believed would be the future ruler of Cybertron. {{Storylink|State Games!}}''

As a member of Megatron's Decepticons, Ravage attempted to hijack the [[Ark]] four million years ago, only to fail and fall into deactivation sleep until 1984. The detonation of the volcano, [[Mount St. Hilary]], reactivated the Autobots and Decepticons, unleashing their war on Earth. The two factions soon found themselves battling on the site of a drive-in movie theatre, where Ravage was able to distract [[Hound]] from determining the location of Bumblebee, who had gone missing. {{storylink|The Transformers (comic issue)|The Transformers}} The Decepticons found themselves in need of energy, so Megatron ordered Ravage to investigate [[Harrison Nuclear Power Plant]]. Jumping into one of the plant worker's cassette recorders, he learned not only of the energy-harnessing technology of this new world, but that its primary inhabitants were not the vehicles they transformed into, but their weird organic operators! Ravage and the other Decepticons immediately attacked Harrison Nuclear and claimed it for themselves. Afterwards, Ravage concealed himself within the boom box of [["O"]], the friend of [[Buster Witwicky]], and learned that Buster had allied himself with the Autobots. He quickly returned to Megatron to report this information, and the Decepticons launched another attack, this time on Buster's neighborhood. Ravage jumped [[Mirage (G1)|Mirage]], and the reluctant Autobot wrestled with the Decepticon until Ravage was knocked away by [[Brawn]]. The Decepticons retreated after kidnapping Buster's father, [[Sparkplug Witwicky]]. {{storylink|Power Play!}} Ravage returned with his comrades to the Decepticons' [[Fortress Sinister|new base]], constructed out of materials salvaged from Harrison Nuclear, and coerced Sparkplug into converting Earth fuel into a substance they could use. Soon, their base was infiltrated by [[Gears]] and the amazing [[Spider-Man]], and although the latter was as fast and agile as Ravage, the former put Ravage out of the fight with a punch. {{storylink|Prisoner of War!}}

[[Image:Ravageenemywithin.jpg|right|thumb|250px|He's so cute when he's angry.]]''Shortly into their stay on Earth, the ever-treacherous [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] attempted to build up support against Megatron by demanding action when Megatron cautioned patience, knowing his fellow Decepticons were getting restless for battle. Fearing that an outright execution of Starscream would turn popular opinion against him, Megatron asked Ravage to spy on the [[Seeker]] and find him an excuse to get rid of Starscream. Ravage was discovered, though, and critically injured by Starscream during their fight. Ravage managed to crawl home across the desert, however, and reported the betrayal to Megatron.''

''Having dishonored himself by attacking his fellow Decepticon, Starscream was forced to engage in a trial by combat with the Autobot [[Brawn]], who had fallen into a similar situation by unrelated circumstances. After defeating Brawn in combat and flying back to Decepticon headquarters to declare his victory, Starscream was shot down by the vengeful Ravage on Megatron's orders. Ravage reported the Autobots were responsible for the attack, and thus Megatron was able to galvanize the Decepticons for battle himself, effectively stealing Starscream's thunder and punishing the mutineer in the process.{{Storylink|The Enemy Within!}}''

''As the Decepticons assaulted the Ark, Ravage fought against the magnetic Autobot [[Windcharger (G1)|Windcharger]], employing his own electromagnetic shield to protect himself from his opponent's powers. When Optimus Prime attempted to awaken the ship's computer [[Auntie]] during the battle, however, she awoke in a scrambled state and turned against all the Transformers, using magnetic force to hold all the combatants against her hull...except for Ravage and Windcharger. Forced to work together for the benefit of both their armies, they managed to deactivate Auntie. {{Storylink|Raiders of the Last Ark}}''

Megatron ordered Ravage to sneak into the Ark and provide him with news of the Autobots' fuel situation. Fortunately for the Decepticons, the Autobots had failed to find a source of fuel, so the time came to strike. During the Decepticons' immediate attack on the Ark, Ravage singled out Mirage, intent on finishing the job he began earlier. Ravage ignored Mirage's pleas for a peaceful discussion and removed Mirage's arm with his teeth. Mirage's resolve against the Decepticons strengthened, he blasted Ravage, removing him fully from the rest of the battle. {{storylink|The Last Stand}} The chance arrival of [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] was all that allowed ultimate Decepticon victory, and Ravage, his deposed leader Megatron, and several others were nursed back to full operating status. {{storylink|The New Order}} Though Megatron rebelled against his usurper, he failed, and Shockwave paraded Megatron's beaten form in front of Ravage and the other Decepticons. {{storylink|The Worse of Two Evils!}}

Ravage accompanied several other Decepticons, under the command of Soundwave, in an assault on the Autobots after they had been duped by a bogus Optimus Prime under Shockwave's control. Ravage, the impostor Prime, and the other Decepticons made short work of the Autobots until the real Prime was restored. The Autobot commander turned the tide easily and Ravage and the other Decepticons were defeated. {{storylink|Prime Time!}}

''While eavesdropping on the Autobots' arguments over whether or not to use the [[Creation Matrix]] to build an army of powerful superwarriors, Ravage's presence aboard the Ark was detected. The Decepticon spy made a run for it, but was caught in a web by Mirage and [[Hound]]. Ravage, however, is nearly impossible to kept locked up, and so he was able to quickly escape. Optimus Prime ordered Bumblebee to track him down, but Ravage's capture was part of a larger scheme, and he led Bumblebee right into a trap and captured. {{storylink|Crisis of Command!}}''

[[Image:Laserbeakravageirobotmaster.jpg|left|thumb|200px|Ravage loves to play peek-a-boo.]]

While sitting in their [[alternate modes]] inside a [[Portland]], [[Oregon]], electronics store, Soundwave, Ravage, and Laserbeak awaited news of Megatron's location during their former leader's disappearance. After his fuel-deprived body froze in nearby [[Powder River Basin]], they left the store and brought fuel to Megatron. Here they successfully fought the American military and found a new ally, [[Donny Finkleberg]], who claimed to control the Transformers as the supervillain Robot-Master. {{storylink|I, Robot-Master!}} Megatron re-established his Decepticons in the basin, at the protests of Shockwave, while Ravage was given the duty of watching over Finkleberg. However, during a sudden Autobot attack, Ravage was distracted and Finkleberg was able to escape. {{storylink|Command Performances!}}
Ravage tracked the human, despite Finkleberg's discarding of most of his smell by exchanging clothes, but after getting into a confrontation with the Autobot named [[Skids (G1)|Skids]], Ravage was sent tumbling down a mine shaft and rendered inoperative on impact. {{Storylink|Showdown!}}

''Three years later, Ravage was awakened by a series of earth tremors, set off by the time storm raging throughout the universe. Finding much had changed since his deactivation, Ravage stumbled into the underground bunker of none other than [[Straxus|"Megatron"]] and [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]]. Initially siding with his old leader(s?), during a battle with the [[Wreckers]], Ravage was surprised to learn that the presence of Galvatron and Scourge in the present was the source of the time storm. Though he was blasted by [[Carnivac]] (who had temporarily teamed up with the Wreckers), Ravage abandoned the battle and sought out the reclusive Shockwave. Shockwave was nearly catatonic over the irrationality of the time paradox that threatened to destroy them all, but Ravage managed to use logic to convince his former leader to come to his senses. At Ravage's suggestion, Shockwave gave up the body of [[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]], tossing it into the timestorm, which ended the threat to the present and future. {{Storylink|Time Wars}}''

''In the aftermath, he hooked up with Megatron and they returned to Cybertron to seek new fortunes. In the Decepticon capital city of [[Helex]], though, they found Autobots wandering around unmolested, and the area free of Decepticon supervision. After deposing the inadequate [[Triumverate]], Megatron established a new beachhead for his conquests, with Ravage by his side. {{Storylink|The Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire}} Before long, though, Ravage's Megatron was destroyed by the original Megatron, who revealed that the Megatron from Time Wars was a reconstruction of Lord [[Straxus]]. {{Storylink|Two Megatrons!}}''

[[Image:Weirdwolfthevoid.jpg|right|thumb|100px|Close your mouth, Ravage.]]
Ravage eventually resurfaced on Earth, working with Starscream and Shockwave in an auxiliary Decepticon army, planning to overthrow then-leader [[Scorponok (G1)|Scorponok]]. After recruiting more of Scorponok's disgruntled soldiers, including [[Triggerhappy]] and [[Mindwipe]] {{Storylink|Eye of the Storm!}}, Ravage returned with his fellow insurgents to an [[Nemesis (G1)|underwater headquarters]] to plan their attack. As Scorponok began to forge a very unpopular alliance with the Autobots due to the threat of [[Unicron]]'s coming, Ravage and the other Decepticon insurgents attacked the Decepticon base in [[New Jersey]]. {{storylink|Surrender!}} Scorponok survived, and as he emerged from the wreckage, he swat Ravage aside easily. {{storylink|...All This and Civil War 2}}

Their coup was interrupted when [[Primus]] summoned all the Transformers of Earth to Cybertron to do battle with Unicron. {{storylink|Out of Time!}} Ravage and the other teleported Transformers witnessed Primus, speaking through the body of [[Emirate Xaaron]], tell the history of their supernatural war with the Dark God. Ravage was last seen fleeing, along with several others, immediately after Unicron's approach. {{Storylink|On the Edge of Extinction!}}

===Earthforce===
[[Image:Ravage_uk258.png|left|thumb|100px|The smirking Ravage was a chatty catty in the Marvel comics.]]
{{-}}

===Animated continuity===
:''Voice Actor'': [[Frank Welker]] (US) [[Yutaka Shimaka]] (Japanese, when speaking)

[[Image:Ravageg1.jpg|left|thumb|150px|Ravage reveals his self (sic) to humans. [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers.fanfic/msg/a5cd7fda89f12c7c?dmode=source&hl=en]]]

One of the original team of Decepticons that accompanied [[Megatron]] on the attack of the ''[[Ark]]'' spacecraft, Ravage was reformatted by [[Teletraan I]] as an audiocassette to better blend in for operations based on Earth. Ravage served loyally as a Decepticon spy. He was one of the first Transformers to have been encountered by a human, as workers investigating a destroyed power station fell afoul of Ravage who pounced upon them and frightened them away. {{storylink|More Than Meets the Eye, Part 1|MTMTE1}}

Shortly thereafter, Ravage accompanied Soundwave on an infiltration mission to gather data from Teletraan 1. Though Soundwave was discovered, Ravage was captured in an energy net and held captive. {{storylink|More Than Meets the Eye, Part 2|MTMTE2}} The Decepticon spy figured into a disinformation plot hatched by the Autobots, who purposely leaked the presence of a rocket fuel depository in the outlying desert. In truth, there was no rocket base -- Autobot [[Hound (G1)|Hound]] projected a holographic illusion in the hopes of luring the Decepticons into a trap. The Autobots allowed Ravage to escape and report back to Megatron, who easily saw through the ruse. {{storylink|More Than Meets the Eye, Part 3|MTMTE3}}

During Megatron's gladiatorial match with Optimus Prime, Ravage was let out to watch his master battle their nemesis. Soundwave also petted him. This would be cute if it wasn't creepy. {{storylink|Heavy Metal War}}

During Megatron's attempt to convince the humans that the Decepticons were good and the Autobots were evil, Ravage was dispatched to track down [[Spike Witwicky]] when the human searched for evidence that would exonerate the Autobots. Cornering the flesh creature in a studio control room, Ravage had a door closed on him, was electrocuted by a control panel, and had a shelf filled with video cassettes pushed onto him. To make Ravage feel better, Soundwave took Ravage along with the other cassettes to a teen dance party, where Ravage was a big hit with the ladies. {{storylink|Megatron's Master Plan, Part 2}}

Some time later, Ravage, along with [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]], [[Thrust (G1)|Thrust]], and Soundwave, were transported to a planet with massive inhabitants, along with a group of Autobots, in a [[space bridge]] accident. The first creature they encountered, [[Aron]], thought the Decepticons were toys. Ravage attempted to escape, but Aron's cat [[Nitro]] chased after Ravage like a mouse (how embarrassing). Aron put him with his pet hamster, Blooper, in his cage. Instead of immediately asserting his dominance by killing the beast, Ravage went and ran on the creature's exercise wheel. When captured by scientists, they attempted to disect the Transformers, but Ravage was able to pick his locks and free the Decepticons, who hijacked the Autobots light beam to head back to Earth...and landed in a lake filled with alligators. That was a very bad day for Ravage. {{storylink|Child's Play (episode)|Child's Play}}

====''Binaltech''====
At some point in time after [[1985]], but before [[2005]], Ravage was captured by the [[EDC]] and kept as a prisoner. He was then kept Status Locked in Cassete-mode inserted his future/past self's Tapedeck, in order to provide his body with a [[Spark|"Life Essence Nucleus"]], as part of the [[I.I.I|I.I.I's]] "X-9 Revival Plan". The present's Ravage remains unaware of his time-tossed doppleganger.

===Dreamwave comics continuity===
[[Image:Ravagewarandpeace.jpg|right|thumb|150px|RARRRRR yourself.]]
Ravage, with a much more arboreal alt mode, was part of the second assassination team Megatron sent after the new Autobot Supreme Commander Optimus Prime. Ravage got savaged.
Millions of years later, Ravage was a member of a team of Transformers controlled by [[Lazarus]] and sent to destroy an oil refinery. Ravage, always loyal to Soundwave, seemed to switch to [[Shockwave]]'s side when they traveled to Cybertron. Unfortunately for him, he tried to tackle [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] and got a mouthful of energy blast.

===IDW comics continuity===
{{ongoing}}
Ravage can talk. Seriously. Long ago on Cybertron, he helped Soundwave expose some spies for Megatron and later became a terrorist in the pre-Decepticon movement. {{storylink|Megatron Origin}}

Much later, on Earth in 1984, Ravage, along with fellow cassette Laserbeak helped Soundwave attack Bludgeon's group before Bludgeon impaled him with his sword. He was later buried by a volcanic eruption, but dug out a year later by a mysterious group of humans. {{storylink|Spotlight: Soundwave}} He was chained up in the [[Skywatch]] headquarters along with Laserbeak and reprogrammed to seek out the other Transformers. Needless to say, Ravage was not in a good mood. {{storylink|Escalation issue 6}}

On his first mission out with Laserbeak, however, the pairs' signal from Skywatch was blocked by Soundwave. {{storylink|Devastation issue 4}}

===IDW ''[[Hearts of Steel]]'' continuity===
[[Image:Marktwainvsravage.jpg|left|thumb|250px|Back vile beast, back *Ravage smashes chair*...um, anyone got some catnip?]]
[[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] sent Ravage to kill [[Tobias Muldoon]], who had deserted the Decepticons when he learned they were evil. Ravage tracked him to [[Stanford Merriweather]]'s house in [[San Francisco]], and crashed into the household, startling Muldoon, Merriweather, Merriweather's daughter [[Kitty Merriweather|Kitty]], and [[Mark Twain]].

He then pretty much got his ass kicked by Mark Twain, who took advantage of Ravage being momentarily trapped in rubble to flick a cigar at him, thus igniting a gas leak. The explosion flung Ravage into the bay, never to be seen again.

Ravage is a "clockwork puma", and does not transform in the course of the story. {{Storylink|Hearts of Steel issue 3}}
{{-}}

===Beast Wars===

====Toy Bio====
*''' ''Metals'' Jaguar'''
:The process of becoming a Predacon has cost Ravage some of his early Decepticon memories. His ability to become invisible is called Reflect Shade. His orders are to rid the planet [[Earth#Beast Wars|Energois]] of Transformers.

*'''Tripredacus Agent'''
:This lone assassin may look like a Maximal, but his irradiated spark is that of a Predacon. He was saved (and presumably rebuilt into a Transmetal 2) by the Vok. He can hide his energy signature, thanks to his unusual spark. In his history as a Predacon, he has adopted many names to better suit his covert line of work. His weapon is a low-radiation proton bomb launcher. As he loves the dark, the light is his weakness.

====''Timelines: Dawn of Future's Past''====
Ravage is mentioned as being recruited along with fellow [[Mini-Cassette]]s [[Laserbeak (G1)|Laserbeak]] and [[Buzzsaw (G1)|Buzzsaw]] by the Predacon [[Divebomb]], but for some reason left them soon afterwards to become an operative for the Tripredacus Council.

====''Beast Wars''====
:''Voice Actor:'' [[Lee Tockar]] (English), [[Toshiyuki Morikawa]] (Japanese), [[Daois Cabezudo]] (Portuguese)
[[Image:BWRavage_introduction.jpg|right|thumb|250px|"I vill ask you only vuhnce more... vhere are moose and skvirrel?"]]

Ravage is one of the few Decepticon warriors who was granted amnesty at the end of the Great War and reformatted into a Predacon, complete with classy Russian accent. He was sent by the [[Tripredacus Council]] to capture [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]], clean up any messes he might have made, and deal with the rest of the beast warriors. (Whether this translated to "kill them all" in the minds of the Tripedacus Council is unclear, but that was apparently Ravage's intent.) Ravage made the trip to prehistoric Earth in a specially modified stealth [[Transwarp Cruiser]]. He successfully contacted the [[Maximal]]s and allied with them to capture Megatron. Due to the stealth capabilities of his ship, and the fact that [[Tarantulas]] was also an agent of the council, Ravage and the Maximals easily captured Megatron and imprisoned him. {{Storylink|The Agenda (Part 1)}}

Megatron, however, had one more card to play. He knew that Ravage wasn't going to let any of the Beast warriors live, and also knew he had the one thing that would turn Ravage to his side. Using a fragment from the [[Golden Disk]], Megatron showed Ravage something which shocked him—a message from [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]], the leader of the Decepticons. As a safeguard against potential defeat, Megatron left instructions for the descendants of the Decepticons to use transwarp technology to return to prehistoric Earth. Although the message cuts out before it is finished, Megatron's plan worked: Ravage, moved by the sight of his former master, released Megatron. After Megatron explained the rest of the message, Ravage joined the [[Predacon (BW)|Predacons]] and turned on the Maximals. Megatron and Ravage attack Cheetor and Optimus, at which point he transformed into his old mini-cassette alt-mode, jumped into the tape player on his ship, and started playing wicked guitar solos{{Storylink|The Agenda (Part 2)}}

His latest treachery was short-lived. During the assault on the ''[[Axalon (BW)|Axalon]]'', [[Rattrap]] infiltrated his ship and caused an explosion that destroyed the vessel and Ravage himself. As the inferno headed toward the bridge, Ravage raised a fist and shouted, "Decepticons forever!" to whomever heard or cared. {{Storylink|The Agenda (Part III)}}

His head, seemingly all that remained of him, was knocked into the water below the ''Axalon'' by one of Tarantulas' [[Arachnoid|spider-drone]]s. {{Storylink|Optimal Situation}}

{{-}}

====''Beast Wars Metals'' manga====
[[Image:JaguarX9.jpg|right|150px|thumb|Killer Kitty]]
{{note|Although it picks up after the first season, the Beast Wars Metals manga is not in-continuity with the television series. In the ''Beast Wars Metals'' manga, Metals Jaguar was portrayed as G1 Jaguar's homicidal son, with Jaguar taking the design of the Happy Meal Panther toy.}}
{{charstubfiction}}

{{-}}

====IDW ''Beast Wars'' comics====
[[Image:Ravage Teansmetal2.jpg|left|thumb|300px|On the left, Ravage's "robot mode" as seen in The Gathering. On the right, his actual robot mode as seen in Primeval Dawn. On the far right where we can't see him, Ravage beating the crap out of the designers, telling them to make up their [[frag]]ging minds]]

Magmatron recovered Ravage's heavily-damaged torso, which still contained his spark. He then inserted the spark into a blank [[protoform]], and Ravage was reborn. In his Transmetal 2 body, he and his fellow Predacons, under the command of Magmatron, sought out [[Razorbeast]]'s band of Maximals. Viewing from a safe distance, Ravage ordered his soldiers to engage. Additional Maximal forces arrived, however, and Ravage's forces were defeated. Ravage retreated into the wilderness. {{storylink|The Gathering}}

Subsequently, Ravage would utilize all the Predacons under his command in a desperate attack as a diversion while he crept into the Maximal base to steal the [[chronal phase facilitators]] left behind by Magmatron. He was confronted by Razorbeast, who guessed incorrectly that Ravage intended to use them to board the Autobot shuttle and return to Cybertron. Ravage corrected him by stating that he intended to free Megatron and eradicate the Maximal forces. His ambitions however were thwarted by [[Snarl (BW)|Snarl]] who caught him off guard and gave Razorbeast the opportunity to knock Ravage offline. {{storylink|The Ascending, Part 1}}

It is not certain if Ravage's intentions for Megatron were another ruse or if he was ''actually'' out of his kitty mind regarding the tactical feasibility of this endeavor.

However, what WAS a ruse was Ravage being offline - as soon as he had been tied up by Razorbeast, the Maximal commander had to leave to help on the battlefield - upon which Ravage stopped playing dead and broke loose rather easily, managing to obtain the chronal displacement bands that Razorbeast had put him right next to after pointing them out. (A tactical genius, that Razorbeast.) However, upon activating the bands, Ravage was pulled into Chronospace by the trapped Magmatron, who warned him of the apocalypse that was to come, and ordered him to form a truce with the Maximals to fight this menace. And after hearing the warning, Ravage heeded the sage advice, sneaking out of the base while chronically displaced and re-emerging to the sight of several gun barrels from [[Lio Convoy]], Razorbeast, and the Pack. However, just as he explained the situation, [[Rartorata]] emerged from nowhere and turned Razorbeast into a Princess Mononoke homage. {{storylink|The Ascending, Part 2}}

After introducing himself to Lio Convoy, Ravage agreed with him on a truce until they dealt with the menace of [[Shokaract]]. Commandeering his Predacons, Ravage's forces defeated Rartorata and Ravage extracted a sample of [[Angolmois]] energy from the [[Blendtron]]. When he told Lio Convoy to abandon the Angolmois-infected Razorbeast, the Pack's leader warned him that if he made light of his friend's peril again, he'd personally de-spark him. Ravage boarded the Pack's ship and returned to Cybertron with them, on the way analyzing the Angolmois capsule, to come up with an vaccine. However, as he explained, none of them were qualified scientists for the task. After arriving on Cybertron, Shokaract blasted the Maximal ship out of the sky. {{storylink|The Ascending, Part 3}}

Ravage survives the crash, along with the Pack, and visits Magmatron again. Magmatron tells Ravage to chronally-displace Shokaract so he can "enlighten him". He then shows unusual concern for Razorbeast's Maximals, asking how they are doing. Ravage then returns to the battle and hits Shokaract's heralds with a grenade at an opportune moment. After Shokaract's suicide, Ravage finds Magmatron returned and they all lived happily ever after.

Until [[Megatron]] returned.{{storylink|The Ascending, Part 4}}

{{note|Despite being a continuity that borrows heavily from other G1 continuities, where it is suggested that Ravage is completely loyal to Megatron, before attempting to revive Ravage, Magmatron suggests that Ravage's most important loyalty is to Ravage himself. This could simply be Magmatron's opinion, however, and is not necessarily indicative of Ravage's true loyalties.

Possibly in an effort to distinguish him from Cheetor, Ravage usually walks around on his hind legs in beast mode, not bothering with his Transmetal 2 robot mode.}}

====''Primeval Dawn'' comics====
An undead [[Vok]]-infested [[Tarantulas]] revived Ravage into another body to help boost his forces. The remnants of Ravage's previous body were recycled by the Vok to re-create [[Tigatron]]. {{storylink|Universe (comic)|Primeval Dawn}}

===''Binaltech''===
The Government-run [[Intelligence and Information Institute]] (or Triple-I) unearthed a mysterious black box during an archaeological dig. After years of probing, the container, dubbed "Schrödinger's Box" by the group's scientists, was revealed to be the flight recorder of the Predacon Ravage's stealth ship, containing a copy of the feline's personality and memory engrams, deposited into his vessel before his final blaze of glory {{storylink|The Agenda (Part 2)}}. When the scientists found a way to communicate with this personality, it offered them its knowledge of future events in exchange for a new body. Triple-I agreed, and used a fake Binaltech project (filled under the pretense of "technological synthesis tests"), to provide their part of the bargain. However, to truly bring the new Ravage to life, Triple-I stole the present-day Ravage - who had been captured by the [[Earth Defense Command]] and stasis-locked into his cassette mode - and implanted him into the new Ravage, thereby 'fusing' the old and new Ravages into one.

This new Ravage, however, had no intention of fulfilling his end of the bargain and, after eliminating his benefactors and learning to his shock that history did not change in his faction's favor, decided to rectify his mistake. First on his agenda was his former commander, Megatron; stealing an Autobot shuttle, he located and repaired the [[Kronosphere]] and - during a decisive battle between Megatron's and Optimus Prime's forces that would have normally ended with the Autobots being forced off of Cybertron and into their moon bases - turned the weapon on his own faction, trapping Megatron and his crew in a space-time rift. This alteration in the timeline served two purposes: first, it would give the Autobots the chance to retake Cybertron, which would then lead to them having to face off against the oncoming [[Unicron]] alone, severely weakening them in the process. The second, and more important, purpose was to keep Megatron alive and in good mental health (relatively speaking), thus preventing him from becoming the insane [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]], and allowing him to lead the Decepticons to victory over the battle-weary Autobots. Ravage also [[Transmuter|Transmuted]] [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] into a new Binaltech body of his own, so he could lead the remaining Decepticons in Megatron's absence, and secretly derailed many of the Autobots' supply missions, further weakening them for their battle with the Chaos Bringer.

Unfortunately for him, the Autobot named [[Overdrive]] became aware of Ravage's meddling in history, thanks to his acute sensitivity of the timestream, and - with the help of [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] - captured the wayward Decepticon and forced a confession out of him. Ravage, however, was not without a trump card, revealing that his alterations may prevent the deaths of many of the Autobots destined to die in the normal timeline (which, as a distinction between the two, was dubbed 'Prime Time' by Wheeljack, Ravage's altered timeline being called 'Ravage Time'), though in the grand scheme of things, only Optimus could not be considered expendable, as he contained the one thing that could bring down Unicron (the [[Autobot]] [[Matrix of Leadership]]). By the time of his capture, however, Unicron had already been sighted on a collision course with Cybertron and, despite the temptation of preventing future deaths among his ranks, Optimus decided Ravage's plans to be too dangerous to allow to come to fruition. To that end, he ropes [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] into helping him fly to Unicron in a preemptive strike against the monstrous threat, while the other Autobots (left in the command of [[Skids (G1)|Skids]]), were to initiate "Operation: Distant Thunder", which involved sending a copy of Wheeljack's memories of what Ravage confessed to them, back in time to a point prior to the Decepticon panther's meddling, via the energies located on [[Dinobot Island]]. If "Operation: Distant Thunder" worked as planned, Ravage's plans would be foiled, and any tremors in the timeline he caused would be smoothed over by "Project Body Shop" (aka, the Binaltech project). However, just as Skids gives the signal to transmit the memory engrams, the Autobot base is rocked by an entire fleet of Decepticons. The Autobots just barely manage to hold off the fleet, ensuring that "Operation: Distant Thunder" proves to be a success (though a [[Nemesis Prime|black Optimus Prime]] ends up separating the Binaltech timeline from the original, as supposedly the Binaltech-bodied Transformers have a higher purpose in the grand scheme of things). Whatever happened to Ravage is not known.

===15 Go! Go!===
[[Image:TGGRavage.jpg|thumb|275px|right|It's a mystery!]]

After a mystery assailant badly damaged [[Teletraan I]], destroying vital data, the thinly-disguised (actually not-at-all-disguised) "Black Panther Man" stationed on the artificial Earth satellite [[Nana]] ordered the mobile computers [[Teletraan 10]] and [[Teletraan 15]] to travel through time collecting data on Transformers of the past and future.

Although his plan was indeed to repair Teletraan I's databanks, Ravage had his own intentions for the information. He had traveled back from the future to the year 2005 in an attempt to use the "bio and tech specs" data stored inside the computer to manipulate the future and create a timeline free of "unnecessary conflict". When he was foiled by the unknown saboteur, he infiltrated the Autobots as Black Panther Man and created the Information Control Center on Nana in order to control the recovery effort.

The bumbling Teletraan 15 (and eventually Teletraan 10 as well) resisted, escaping back in time using Ravage's Transwarp cruiser and becoming the very saboteur that caused her mission to begin. Though annoyed that his scheme had been thwarted, Ravage expressed pride in the independence of his underlings and graciously ejected them into space—a survivable situation for the pair and their [[Kiss Player]] cassette friends.

===Kids Stuff Read-Along book===
Ravage immediately recognized what a hydro electric station was, a method of generating power used on Cybertron "way way back in the mists of time," when Transformers were not much more advanced in science than humans are now.

This suggests that Ravage is among the oldest of the Decepticons (even Megatron only feigned familiarity with this form of technology), or that he's a serious student of ancient energy generation techniques.

==Toys==
===Generation 1===
{{anchor|G1v1}}
* '''Ravage / Rumble''' (Cassette, 1984/1998/1986/1987)
**''Japanese ID number:'' '''19''', '''D-59''', '''D-104'''
**''Accessories'': Left & right missiles, tape case ('85 Takara only)

[[Image:G1Ravage_toy.jpg|right|thumb|Behold... the world's skinniest jaguar.]]

: The first Ravage toy transforms from a robotic jaguar (or whatever) into a microcassette. In cassette mode, he can fit into the tape compartments fo the [[Soundwave (G1)#G1v1|Soundwave]] and [[Blaster#G1v1|Blaster]] toys. For his [[Hasbro]] release, he was sold on a card along with [[Rumble (G1)#G1|Rumble]] in 1984-1986, and as an individual by [[Takara]] from 1985-1987; the '85 version came with an extra clear-plastic tape-case, but later releases omitted the accessory.

: This mold was later used to make [[Glit]] and [[Howlback]].

{{-}}
{{anchor|G1Soundblaster}}
*'''Soundblaster''' (Transformers Collection, 2005)
**''Japanese ID number'': '''18'''
**''Accessories'': Left & right missiles, tape case

[[Image:G1Jaguar(reissue).jpg|left|thumb|A light breeze is enough to defeat him.]]

: The [[Transformers Collection]] [[reissue]] of [[Soundwave (G1)#Soundblasterv1|Soundblaster]] (the rebuilt form of Soundwave from the Japanese [[Headmasters (franchise)|Headmasters series]]) came with bonus "Cassettrons" Jaguar (Ravage) and [[Buzzsaw (G1)#G1v1|Buzzsaw]]. Both came with their own extra tape-cases, and had small stickers depicting the "weak points" of [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortess Maximus]] when viewed through the clear-red chest of Soundblaster's tape door.

{{-}}
{{anchor|G1Classic}}
*'''Soundwave''' (Decepticon, 2007)
**''Accessories'': Left & right missiles

: Hasbro's ''[[Classics (2006)|Classics]]''-themed reissue of Soundwave is a [[redeco]] of the Transformers Collection Soundblaster, coming with the double-tape door and both Ravage and Laserbeak as pack-ins.

{{-}}
===Beast Wars===
{{anchor|ShadowPanther}}
* '''Tripredacus Agent''' (Deluxe, 1996)
**''Japanese ID number'': '''D-7'''
**''Accessories'': Tail-gun, water-shooting gun

[[Image:ShadowPanther_toy.jpg|right|thumb|Fuzzy kitty!]]

: This originally Japanese toy, named [[Shadow Panther]], is a [[redeco]] of the original [[Cheetor (BW)#Dx1|Cheetor]] toy in black, silver, and yellow, transforming into a generic big feline. His tail/flanks separate to form a non-firing blaster, while his underbelly forms a water-shooting "gut gun" that can be used in either mode.

: Much later, this toy was offered through Hasbro's online collector service under the name "'''Tripredacus Agent'''", with an online bio indicating he was the same character as Ravage (then called "Tripredacus Agent" due to [[trademark]] issues).

: This mold was also used to make [[Tigatron#Dx1|Tigatron]], and was planned to be used for the canceled ''[[Universe]]'' toy [[Nightprowler]].

{{anchor|DxJVs}}
*'''Rhinox Vs. Shadow Panther''' (Vs pack, 1997)
**''Japanese ID number'': '''VS-7'''

: "Shadow Panther" was available both as an individual and in a "versus" set with [[Rhinox (BW)#Dx1|Rhinox]]. Both toys are identical to their individual releases.

{{anchor|TM1}}
* '''Jaguar''' (Deluxe, 1999)
**''Japanese ID number'': '''X-9'''
**''Accessories'': Tail-whip, left & right pistol barrels

[[Image:JaguarX9_toy.jpg|left|thumb|Metal kitty!]]

: ''Beast Wars Metals'' Jaguar is a heavy [[retool]]ing of [[Cheetor (BW)#TM1|Transmetal Cheetor]], just as Ravage's robot mode CG model in the show is an altered [[Transmetal]] Cheetor. He transforms into a robotic big cat, with flip-out thrusters for a third "flight" mode (not, as in the episode, into a cassette tape that plays wicked 1980's style electric guitar, for obvious reasons). His forearms each have a spring-loaded flip out pistol stub, which can be extended with add-on barrels that clip to his rear legs in beast mode. His tail also can detach to form a whip-weapon, but he doesn't hold it very well.

: This mold was used to make [[BotCon 2001]]'s version of [[Tigatron#BC01|Tigatron]]. The original version was used to make ''[[Armada]]'' [[Cheetor (Armada)#Toys|Cheetor]], and as the basis for the non-toy character [[Cataclysm]].

{{anchor|TM2}}
* '''Tripredacus Agent''' (Deluxe, 2001)
**''Accessories'': Launcher, missile, tail-flail
[[Image:TripredacusAgent_toy.jpg|right|thumb|Mutant kitty!]]

: This Wal-Mart [[exclusive]] is a redeco of {{m-}}wait, can you guess?{{m-}} [[Cheetor (BW)#TM2|Transmetal 2 Cheetor]], in black, silver, and gold, transforming into a monstrous techno-organic (but not [[technorganic]]) big cat. He has a spring-loaded missile launcher on his cat-mode back that can be removed and used as a hand-held weapon, plus his tail detaches to form a hand-held flail. His left forearm has a flip-up blaster-shield (of dubious usefulness), while flipping up a panel on his right-rear leg reveals his [[spark crystal]].

{{-}}
===Smallest Transforming Transformers===
{{anchor|Smallest}}
* '''Soundwave''' (2003)
**''Japanese ID number'': '''GTF 05'''

[[Image:STFRavage.jpg|left|thumb|So tiny... So CUTE!]]

: The ''[[Smallest Transforming Transformers]]'' version of Soundwave comes with a ''teeeeeny'' version of Ravage, which does actually transform into a microcassette that fits in the tape-case door. Smallest Ravage may very well be the actual smallest functioning ''Transformers'' toy made.

{{-}}
===Alternators===
{{anchor|Alt1}}
[[Image:AlternatorsRavage(Corvette).jpg|right|thumb|He brakes for Meow Mix and nothing else...well, sometimes nip.]]
* '''Battle Ravage''' (2004)
**''Alternator ID number'': '''11'''
**''Japanese ID number'': '''BT-11'''
**''Accessories'': Engine-blaster

: A retooling of ''[[Alternators]]'' [[Tracks#Alt1|Tracks]], "Battle" Ravage transforms ([[trademark]] struggles) into a 1:24-scale licensed replica of the Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Convertible, with opening doors, hood, trunk, plus a "realistic" driver/passenger compartment. Each robot-mode forearm contains slide-out (non-firing) double blasters. a part of his engine forms a double-barreled hand-held blaster.

: This mold was also used to make ''Alternators'' [[Swerve (G1)#Alt|Swerve]].

{{anchor|Alt2}}
*'''Ravage''' (Alternator, 2007)
:''Alternator ID number'': '''26'''
[[Image:Alternatorsravagejaguar.jpg|left|thumb|Soundwave had MTV pimp his kitty.]]

: The second version of ''Alternators'' Ravage transforms into a 1:24-scale licensed Jaguar XK (appropriately enough), with all the normal bells and whistles inherent in the line (opening doors, seats, etc). This is a toy of many "firsts". Not only is it the first ''Alternators'' character with two distinctly-different toys, it's one of the first two Decepticon Alternators with an original mold (alongside [[Rumble (G1)#Alt|Rumble]]). ''And'', it's the first ''Alternators'' character to have a non-humanoid "robot" mode, as its non-car form is now a quadrupedal big cat.

: After shipments appeared in various European markets, Ravage and Rumble's releases in the US were questionable for a while. Ultimately, they were shuffled to be Wal-Mart [[exclusive]]s, set in an endcap display alongside the ''[[Classics (2006)|Classics]]'' [[Constructicon (G1)|Constructicon]] exclusive gift-set in March/April of 2007... in some stores. In others, they were crammed in the normal aisle with everything else. Assuming it even showed up at all.

: On this note, Ravage has a Great Britain license plate, regardless of which country the toy was purchased in. I say, meow.

{{-}}
===Unreleased===
{{anchor|TiCR}}
* A ''[[Titanium Series]]'' version of the Cybertron Heroes "Soundblaster", a redeco of the Cybertron Heroes [[Soundwave (G1)#TiCR|Soundwave]], was supposed to come with a tiny Ravage cassette/jaguar, as opposed to the original toy's tiny [[Laserbeak (G1)#TiCR|Laserbeak]]. However, this and serveral other toys from the series were canceled.

{{-}}

===Merchandise===
*'''Ravage Wallet'''

: Released in 1984 as one of the earliest Transformers merchandise items, this vinyl wallet featured a holographic image that changed from Ravage's [[package art]] to the Decepticon version of the [[Generation 1]] Transformers [[logo]].

*'''Ravage''' (Decoy, 1986)
**''Decoy ID number'': '''49'''

: Coming packaged at random on carded ''Transformers'' toys during 1986, this is a soft-rubber version of Ravage in his jaguar mode. He --like all Decepticon [[Decoy]]s-- was available in both purple and red, with the red version being considerably rarer. These are not erasers!

[[Image:Ravage robotheroes.jpg|thumb|''Wavage!'']]
*'''Optimus Prime vs Ravage''' (Robot Heroes 2-pack, 2007)

: Released in 2007 as a [[Robot Heroes]] vs. pack with [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]. Ravage is ''adowable''!
{{-}}

{{anchor#3DBC}}
*'''Ravage''' (3D Battle-Card, 2007)
**''Card ID number'':

: A 23-point "uncommon" character in the [[3D Battle-Card Game]]'s "Energon Wars" expansion, Ravage "transforms" into a black cat. He uses the same parts layout as [[Cheetor]], [[Rampage (G1)|Rampage]] and [[Optimus Primal]].

{{-}}
==Trivia==
* Ravage's original packaging art is by far the most-copied depiction of any Transformer. It was, of course, adapted for his ''[[Transformers Universe (Marvel Comics)|Transformers Universe]]'' profile [http://www.ntfa.net/universe/english/index.php?act=view&char=Ravage], but was also used (twice) in 1985's "back-of-the-box" battle scene [http://www.botchthecrab.com/galleryImage.asp?gallery=7&image=33], was copied in licensed coloring books and storybooks, and the pose also showed up repeatedly in the Marvel Comics. In "[[Time Wars]] Part 2" (Marvel UK #200), artist [[Robin Smith]] copied the art multiple times across several subsequent panels. And it was, of course, recolored for Howlback's card-art. Yikes.
* Reportedly, Hasbro wanted to bring Ravage's Jaguar X-9 figure over to the states as part of the Beast Wars 10th Anniversary line, but they couldn't find the mold. Bummer.

==External links==
*[http://www.ntfa.net/universe/english/index.php?act=view&char=Ravage Ravage Transformers Universe profile]
*[http://www.tfu.info/1984/Decepticon/Ravage/ravage.htm Ravage at TFU.info]

[[Category: Alternators]]
[[Category: Beast Wars characters]]
[[Category: Decepticons]]
[[Category: Headmasters characters]]
[[Category: Mini-Cassettes]]
[[Category: Predacons]]
[[Category: Reassigned toys]]
[[Category: Robot Heroes]]
[[Category: Spies]]
[[Category: Transmetals 2]]
[[Category: Wal-Mart exclusives]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:B.O.T. (G1)

2008-03-15T15:17:18Z

219.95.248.83:

This page needs to be rewritten to be in past tense. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:18, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
:You know, despite how terrible this episode is, I felt sorry for the robot when it waved in victory and was blown up. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 01:29, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
::And I feel sorry for the people who've watched this episode! XD --[[User:akindofdrifter|akindofdrifter]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2008-03-15T15:09:25Z

219.95.248.83: /* How to spell Malay. */

==Archives==
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive1|Archive1]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive2|Archive2]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive3|Archive3]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive4|Archive4]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive5|Archive5]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive6|Archive6]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive7|Archive7]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive8|Archive8]]

== Continuity / Timeline ==
I'm trying to make some sense of how the various major continuities are handled, overview-wise. Some have their own continuity page; IDW's just got a timeline, with overview stuff shoved here and there among the individual miniseries. Some don't have anything. Some, like the G1 cartoon, are not much more than lists. The ones that exist tend to be hard to find, aren't categorized uniformly, etc... is there a master format for this stuff?{{unsigned|Repowers|12:15, 29 October 2007}}
:There is no master format for continuity pages. Please feel free to make one! It would be a good thing to have! --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 00:55, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:: You know, I think it would be hot if once we got more timelines up, we began putting Chronology links to the timetable on the story pages. Several Dreamwave comic pages have them, and I think IDW comics should too, since IDW really isn't telling the story in a linear fashion.--[[User:Zodberg|Zodberg]] 09:36, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:::Sounds like a good idea. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 13:51, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
::Would it make sense to have an overview writeup at the start of each timeline, a few paragraphs or so? Or should "continuity" be a separate page? Where should a chronological list of issues go -- publisher's page, continuity page, timeline page? That's not such a problem with, say, Marvel G1, but Dreamwave's a little messier, IDW's all over the place, and gods help you if you want to sort out the mess that is Marvel UK. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 14:29, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:: A continuity page should have the following (in my opinion):
:: * A one-paragraph description of the continuity, not more than a few sentences long.
:: * A list of what media belongs to this continuity (which can include some stuff that's vaguely contradictory, but should exclude stuff that's way out there, like Earthforce relative to G1 comics). This can be sorted by publication order, or internal chronology, but if there's a major difference between the two, it should be spelled out.
:: * An overall description of the main events in that continuity, focusing on the events actually chronicled (not the distant past). In particular, for most continuities, changes in the leadership of either side, the changing status (living/dead, present/absent, duplicated by Straxus/encoded on a floppy, etc.)of the big two leaders (usually Optimus Prime and Megatron), any events involving Unicron or Primus, and introductions of major teams or groups of characters (Headmasters, Fuzors) should be in the summary.
:: * If necessary, a timeline, which may end up integrated with one of the above parts.
:: * Pointers to important and closely-related continuities (again, such as Earthforce), discussion of divergences, etc. [[User:JW|JW]] 15:14, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:::All that sounds pretty good, though I wouldn't get too hung up on following individual characters too much, even the leaders. In Marvel G1, at least, they changed over on a pretty regular basis.
:::On a related note... this and a lot of other overview-type pages are really lost in the shuffle. They should be top-level pages, with everything branching off of them and linking back to them, but instead they're buried and nothing links to them. You start off reading, say, the article on [[Spotlight: Soundwave]]. Where do you go from there to find out more? The IDW issues category? That's the only link out of that page. If you're a newcomer, or even someone with an imperfect memory, how do you know what comes next? Either the individual issue pages need to link to the timeline and continuity pages, or the category page does, or... something.
:::Taking care of it on the category page might be simplest, like what's on the Category:Marvel US issues page. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 19:12, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:::: Yes, the site is sadly lacking in both "uplinks" and "sidelinks" for the media; links from a TV episode to the TV series, links from an issue of a comic to an overview of the comic, links from one comic to the next comic in that series, etc. [[User:JW|JW]] 19:21, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
::::: I'm still poking around and figuring out what's been done and what's needed; it might take a while to figure out how to start cleaning things up. It looks like we've got some random timelines started (still need ones for the Beast era and a few others), as well as continuity pages for some but not all of the major storylines, so I suppose each major continuity should have both kinds of pages. I wonder if there's a way to use a category or subcategory to get individual episode/issue pages to quickly link back to the main overview pages?... -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 19:28, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:::: JW, we do have that comics nav template, though I like the comic infobox on wikipedia more. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 20:04, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
::::: Ah... http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Comicnav ...so we do. Very useful. Now we just gotta propagate it over a few hundred comic issue... :S -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 20:25, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
::::: Also, the nav setup only can link up one level. So Infiltration #2 can link up to the main Infiltration page, but not to the IDW continuity page above that. Would putting a variant of this template on the main page for each miniseries, linking up to the continuity page, work instead? Then you're never more than two clicks away from an individual issue to the continuity overview. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 20:25, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:::::: That, or somehow add it to the main comicnav template, perhaps in <small>small letters</small> above the series name. I don't wanna step on anyone's toes though. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 20:45, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
::::::: That'd make the most sense, to add a "Continuity" level to the template, or alternately a lower-end "Mini-series" option. But hell if I can make sense out of how these things work... that might be a rainy day project, figuring that out. :\ -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 20:51, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

==Image Copyrights==
I asked awhile ago, and nobody seemed to know, so...

I've always been under the impression that images {{c}} someone else should be credited ''not'' just with a note that they belong to someone else, but a ''year'', for much the same reasons we identify ''who'' the image belongs to rather than simply saying 'we don't own it, but it's fair use.' The more info we provide, the more 'seriously' the copyright is being taken. if we wipe our ass with an unadorned, <nowiki>{{fairuse}}</nowiki> clearly we don't think the holder of the copyright is ''important''... or something.

I have a script I've been poking at. It can run through every image detail page on the wiki through a regular expression and pick out which images don't have copyright owners (Hasbro or Takara-- you're supposed to ID which even if you're using <nowiki>{{hastak}}</nowiki>,) which don't have dates, and which don't have any sort of copyright notice at all. (A significant chunk of our images have no notices that they belong to someone else.) It could also drop the offending images into categories to be sorted out and properly labeled. (I imagine I'd give it Steve-o and let it do so logged in as the bot to avoid the update-floods.)

...is anyone interested in this? Does it seem like a good idea? Terrible idea? ...Bueler? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 15:29, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

==Cartoon Episode Format Mark II==
Picking up an old thread here... per some changes I just finished making to all the Beast Era episode pages, IMO:
* The one-line summary should be bold. It's the single most important thing on the page; your eye should leap right to it.
* It should be the very first thing on the page, above the nav box (barring temporary templates like "pics needed".)
* It should be free of links. They're distracting and ugly, and it's kinda absurd to think someone's going to click right off the summary to see what a "Maximal" or whatever is. Links can easily be integrated into the body of the plot summary.

I'd also rather see Quotes before Stats, to keep all the in-universe stuff together before moving to out-universe stuff like writers, air dates, commentary, order of appearance, etc. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 00:13, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

:I agree with all of this, except for the one-line summary being above the nav box. Pure personal preference, though, rather than any sort of functionality - I just don't like the way it looks. In fact, I think putting it below the nav box actually ''helps'' its notice-ability - it "frames" the summary quite nicely between the nav box and the contents box. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 00:22, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
::Heh, I see it the opposite way -- having the summary first provides a frame for the inevitable white space that accompanies the nav box. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 06:24, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

::Picking up on what I said above, putting the stats section down below not just the extended summary but now below the quotes section as well is something I strongly oppose. Episode writers do not get the recognition they deserve. We should not be burying their credits like that. That section belongs ''above'' the summary. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 03:21, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
:::I do hear what you're saying, but honestly I'm less bothered by the recognition factor than by the inconsistency with comic format, where all that junk ''is'' up front (though it often looks pretty bad, IMO.) If it were ''just'' the writer credit, I'd be okay with having it up front (though I ain't gonna be the one who goes back through 78 Beast Era episode pages to change it!) But then you get into the odd condition of having that one bit of info up front, while the rest of the standard information external to the episode's events is much deeper in the article. Having much more stuff up front than that makes for a messy, unattractive, and harder-to-read format compared to having it all bundled in the Stats section... IMO, natch.
:::"If "recognition" is the concern, heck, think of the animators who slaved a lot more than the writers ever did to bring each episode to life. They get no credits at all. Neither does Robert Buckley, who provided music for both Beast series. The list goes on and on. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 06:24, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
::::The information I am suggesting be up front would only be three lines (Written by, Directed by, air date), which I don't think would be very intrusive at all. To my mind, before the summary is the only logical place for this information to be presented, as episodes themselves generally present those two credits up front, and air date is a known factor when watching an episode when it debuts.
::::On the issue of recognition, you make a good point, however my concern is a bit different. Robert Buckley may not get a lot of recognition from the fandom for the music of Beast Wars, but it's not like they give someone ''else'' all the credit on that score, pun semi-intended. But the writers? The fandom often enough acts as if Forward and DiTillio wrote every single word of Beast Wars, and Skir (alone, of course, as the Isenberg Uncertainty Principle remains in full effect) the same for Beast Machines. The story editors are obviously the most important writers, but they didn't do it all on their own.
::::Burying the names of episode writers down below the summary and quotes sections just doesn't sit right with me, is all. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 04:46, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::Hrm... combined with Steve-o's consistency argument, I suppose I could go along with doing it this way, with them all tucked together and separate from/below the one line summary. Written By and Air Date are in one little combined pair of lines now, an easy cut-n-paste to move up front. I don't think anyone's added Director credits to any of the episodes, by the by.
:::::As I said, I'm in no great hurry to do it myself -- my main concern was that the Beast Era show pages had drifted into all sorts of different arrangements, some of which looked pretty sloppy. For better or worse, they're all uniform now. If we're gonna change the layout, let's work on getting one sample page ''just right'', then we can worry about propagating it. To that end, have a look at "[[Chain of Command]]", see if it clicks for you. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 05:33, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm thinking if we could merge the ''Japanese title'' into the '''''Stats''' section'' because it seems to fit the section better. --[[User:TX55|TX55]] 03:14, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't have much of a preference, personally, about how to organize these things. However, I do feel pretty strongly that it should be more or less the same for both cartoon episodes and comic issues. Having different organizational schemes for different sorts of fiction doesn't serve much purpose, and makes things harder to get used to. (On the other hand, I ''also'' feel strongly that all of our passages relating fictional events should be in the same tense regardless of if they happen to be on a character page or a story page, but apparently that makes me insane, so don't take my pleas for consistency too seriously.) --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 02:35, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

==Cartoon continuity headings==
Have we decided on a definative format for this yet? most of the pages with characters who appeared in Sunbow's G1 through to the japanese series (and maybe Beast Wars as well) have quite different headings, and I recall we were worried about ''Transformers Animated'' causing problems with all the 'Animated continuity' headings on character pages. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 07:08, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
:I think we had decided on using "cartoon" instead of "animated." So use "cartoon continuity," or for those who appear in more than one cartoon continuity, use "Generation 1 cartoon continuity," "Beast Wars cartoon continuity," etc. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 07:13, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
::Can we have Diagnostic Drone change all occurrences of "Animated continuity" to "Cartoon continuity"? That'll require some cleanup in the <i>Animated</i> articles, but there are far fewer of those than there are of G1 subjects that are currently mislabeled. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 17:54, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

== Section-title master list ==

I've made a sandbox for the purpose of assembling a [[User:Jackpot/Sandbox/Sections|master list of all section titles]], their relation to each other, and their proper wording/formatting. Please discuss; I've introduced some new ideas, and I'd love to see a consistent guide established. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 01:04, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
:Wow, I think this really look nice and useful. ;D --[[User:TX55|TX55]] 03:44, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

== "First go here! Next go here." ==
I was thinking a bit about the various problems we've got around here -- stuff like incomplete image descriptions, orphaned articles, etc. There's really no one central place where a newcomer (or a regular who feels like doing something useful but doesn't know what) can go to find a quick list of things that need doing. The current help pages just send you to the list of articles in need of creation, which is kind of daunting, especially for a newcomer who has to learn a million standards and Wikia tags. Is there a more comprehensive way to point people in the direction of useful things they could be doing? Whatever it might be, it should include links to:
* Pages in need of creation
* Orphaned pages
* Stubs
* Pics needed
* Any current projects, like the Beast Wars one. Hell, I couldn't find that thing if my life depended on it.
...as well as a note about common problems: dead/missing storylinks, incomplete image descriptions, and whatever else. (Heck, who knows? Maybe it could even distract an IP person long enough to prevent them from screwing with captions.... ahh, who'm I kidding?} -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 21:51, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

:There are some of those things catalogued [[Special:Specialpages|here]], but I think making links to the most important of these categories, and placing them together in one easy-to-find link off the main page, would be best. Perhaps on the Help contents page, since it's linked right off the main page already, in the most logical location? I think that link is a bit small, for what it's worth. --[[User:Sntint|Sntint]] 22:09, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
::One of the projects in the back of my head is a help-page/guide specifically breaking down the creation of character pages, plus the use of "common templates" for them (disambigs, stubs, notes). I'll see if I can scrounge up some time to rough-copy one. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 22:56, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

==Other Maintenance Templates?==
I haven't had much time to do more "substantial" wiki edits lately, but I've been prepping for later with the charstub sub-categories. Fiction really isn't my bag... I mean, I know it in general, but not issue titles and numbers and bla bla. But I figure it's also nice to have the "really needs a lot of stuff" pages separated from the "just needs some stuff in one subsection" ones, especially once I can make a concentrated effort to update the toy sections of various pages. I've been thinking about other similar "needs maintenance" template/categories, but I thought I'd bring it up here since I'm not sure who else might make use of them...<br>
I've noticed quite a lot of pages missing storylinks. I'm not intending on going through a big wiki-wide hunt, but as I go through the stubs and other pages doing little maintenance and tweaks, well, I think I'd like to be able to mark pages I come across that are missing those links they should have. Picture and quote? Isaac Sumdac and/or Tutorbot, "I cannot believe I programmed you with such simplistic information!" (Idea courtesy of Trent Troop.)<br>
I'd swear there was another one, but right now, too tired to think of it and must sleep. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 06:53, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
:Perhaps a tag for a page with too many damn redlinks for concepts that will never need articles?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 07:08, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
::I don't think that will be neccessary, as it's a simple matter of removing the [[ and <nowiki>]]</nowiki>s. Storylinks, though, require some research. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 15:40, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
:::I usually label such pages with <nowiki>{{stub|storylinks}}</nowiki>. [[User:JW|JW]] 15:44, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
::::Trick is, often they're not really stubs, are they? the main info is there, there's just not a "where'd this happen?" link. And maybe it's the data-manager in me that says this, but I think it'd be a lot easier to have a common problem like lack of storylinks as a category all its own, all together for easy identification and maintenance. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 16:11, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation ==

We need a consensus on hiw we handle disambuigation in article titles. We've had some moving between [[Silverbolt (BW)]] and [[Silverbolt (Fuzor)]], and [[Dirge (Timelines)]] and [[Dirge (Whatever the Botcon 05 set was)]] because there are two Silverbolts in BW and two Dirges in Timelines. However, since one of those Dirges and one of those Silverbolts are G1 characters, the (BW) and (Timelines) tags are fine for the other two. The tags are simply for keeping the articles separate; not for telling you what continuity they're in. Plus, (Timelines) is much easier to type than "(Botcon boxset name I can't remember)". --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 23:35, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

:Somewhat related to the discussion at [[Talk:Starscream (Timelines)]]. My personal criteria is that a name used for two (or more) characters in the same toyline requires more specific disambiguation, regardless of the characters' origin, because readers shouldn't be expected to remember whether some character was already in another toyline. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 23:51, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

::So... what should disambigs be?
:# Distinguished ''only'' when strictly necessary. "Silverbolt (BW)" is fine because, while there were 2 Silverbolt toys in the BW Toyline, the other one is actually Silverbolt (G1)- so only one entry is trying 'sits' in the (BW) disambig, and no more specific disambing is needed. Parenthetical disambigs should be the broadest possible category the article can sit in without conflicting with another article, (usually a continuity family or franchise.) Absolutely no 'bumping' of disambigs as a concession to aesthetics.
:# Distinguished on a logical basis. "Silverbolt (Fuzor)" because there are two Silverbolts in the BW toyline, and the article title should not allow for confusion between the two.
:# Providing continuty info. A hypothetical new character Roller in the 2008 Universe line would be "Roller (Classic)" not "Roller (Universe)"-- so that the article title doesn't mislead people into thinking he's part of the 2004 Universe continuity.
::My problem with #2 ''and'' #3 is that the diambig isn't supposed to convey that information. The first line of the article, right below the title does. It will say 'Silverbolt is a Fuzor in the Beast Wars continuity family...' or 'Roller is a Ultracon in the Classics portion of the Generation 1 continuity family.'
::We are currently usign method #1. I oppose a change to methods 2 or 3 for the following reasons:
:# The '''first line''' of the article already supplies the information that solutions 2 & 3 would seek to add- and does it ''better.''
:# Implementing 2 or 3 would make it harder for ''editors'' to know where article are sitting ("I know there was only one Silverbolt in BW, why is my link to Silverbolt (BW) broken?")
:# The purpose of the parenthetical disambigs is not to convey info- it is to keep articles with the same title from sitting in the same namespace. Attempting to make disambigs convey information actually ''adds ambiguity'', because it would force the the locations the articles sit in to become ''less'' standard.
::Let diambigs be disambigs. If we want to make continuity notes clearer or more prominent, we can look at revising our approach to '''them'''. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:41, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

::We already have [[Help:Disambiguation]] to more or less lay this out. (I've just made a couple small changes to it for clarification.) There is going to be no simple rule of thumb which leads to tbe best results in every case, so make the parenthetical as brief and clear as you can. Derik is correct that the purpose of the parenthetical is to give the articles different names so the database doesn't get confused. To help out editors when we make links, it is good for them to be short and easy to remember. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 21:35, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

So, should we move [[Silverbolt (Fuzor)]] and [[Dirge (Decent into Evil)]] and the mirrorverse guys back to [[Silverbolt (BW)]], [[Dirge (Timelines)]] and [[mirrorverse guys (Timelines)]]? --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 22:42, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
:Wait to see if others have strong feelings/argument first. (We have a policy, but it's subject to conseunsus, remember? Also- I think I wrote most of that page so my point of view is unfairly over-represented there.) ''On review, no, apparently this is one policy page I '''didn't''' write. ...why can't I tell Steve-o's writing apart from my own? Scary. :~(
:Personally I say emphatically yes on Dirge, indifferent affirmative on Silverbolt, and wait and see on the Shattered Glass pages. We don't now where/if they fit in existing continuity. There's no point in movinf them a half-dozen times while arguing about unknowables. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:13, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

== Pages about fan sites ==

Is there a policy about this? I wanted to add TF Pulp, but I didn't see any other TF sites on here at all, so I figured I should ask first.
{{unsigned|Might Gaine|2008-02-27T14:04:54}}

:We don't give unofficial sites their own articles. You can link to information on TF Pulp from appropriate pre-existing articles, though. That sort of thing enhances the wiki by allowing people to find further information on the topics they are reading about. Just put it into an "External links" section right before the categories. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 21:18, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

==Cartoon episode title cards redundancy==
Why are we moving towards using the title cards of episodes for the main/starting picture of episode articles? Isn't it redundant to have a boring screenshot with the name of the episode placed next to...... the name of the episode in the actual article itself? Wouldn't it be more interesting to do what we have been doing, and use a screen capture that somehow encapsulates the whole episode, or shows a pivitol point in it that sticks in our memory? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 02:55, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
:I've wondered the same thing myself, but figured it was a done deal. I too support the "memorable/encapsulating moment" approach. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 03:04, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
::Uh... I'm sorry, I think I started it. ;-) When I was doing some early RiD ep stubs I threw in the titlecards because the early episodes were boring as sin. I think McFeely did it for the JP eps because they tend to have those painterly titlecards...
::Really, it's just something you do if there isn't a ''good'' representative image. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:39, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
:::Like Code of Hero (an article that needs a major overhaul itself), I originally put an image of Dinobot's sword lying on the deck of his quarters, because it looked poignant. Did the same for various other Beast Wars episodes. Then Interrobang replaced them all with screencap of the title screens. Gah. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 07:05, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
::::So tell him to stop! ;) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:58, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::Sigh. I did it because I like consistency, even with Japanese series. "Dinobot's sword on the ground" might be your favoritest image ever but it's the odd duck out now. (It also looks terrible due to the artifacting brought about by needlessly screwing with the brightness and contrast.) [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 08:36, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::Consistency is Victory- but Transformers Victory was incredibly boring. (Victory Gundam was pretty good though...) [[The Weak Component]], [[Survivor]] and [[End of the Line]] all have virtually ''identical'' title screens- an aerial shot of the Cybertropolis spaceport. That sucks— I'd much rather have an iconic image from each episode. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 10:07, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::::I agree. Using iconic images is really good for the most episode guides, such as [[Code of Hero]], [[The Weak Component]], and several [[B.O.T. (episode)|others]], especially "Code of Hero" and "The Weak Component" are great and good examples. --[[User:TX55|TX55]] 13:38, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Personally, I started doing for the Japanese series for the reason Derik gives, because it was usually a unique image made for the title card, or a good one that's representative of the episode. There were some duds, but... consistency. And then... ''Masterforce'' started to do really, ''really'' boring ones, and I was about to give up, then it occurred to me to start using the image from the next-ep preview, which proved a winner in most cases (in fact, I may yet go back and change swap out some of the title-card images with these, if it's a better option). The mention of Victory here amuses me, though, 'cause it's a good example of title cards being boring - it's the same two images of Star Saber and Deathsaurus, rotated in and out, for the whole series. I've used them for the first two episodes just to get them on show, but I plan to use the title-images from the next-episode previews for this one. I mean, when I wake up from the dullness-inducing stupor that Victory induces. - McFeely, at work
::::::::I reverted Dinobot's sword back to the version I uploaded. As I had not viewed the page much since last year, I didn't realize that Repowers tried to brighten it up for some reason - that moment is supposed to focus on the sword, not the room. And it's the 'odd duck out' now because some people have been replacing whatever had served as the main image with the title card. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 12:24, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::I brightened it because, when it's reduced for the actual episode page where most people are going to see it, you can't tell what the heck you're looking at. Right now it looks a little bit of vague white stuff in darkness. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 13:36, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::Vaat? I can see if plenty fine there, unless you're using a very, very high resolution that makes everything tiny. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:54, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::Could be my home monitor, which is HUGE. It does look more discernable from a work computer, though IMO it could still stand to be a tad brighter. -- [[user:repowers|repowers]], not signed in
I've changed my mind on this situation after mulling it over. A winner is FNN. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 03:31, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
:FNN sounds even more like a Simon Furman sound effect than FFN :D --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:26, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
::You clearly changed your name after I replied. There's no another answer. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 04:33, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Hnh. FNN never DID want to live forever. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:55, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

==Help/policy page namespaces==
As part of the help/policy page revamp I plan to do... eventually... I kind of want to consolidate the pages all into a single namespace. Right now we have [http://transformers.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special%3AAllpages&from=&namespace=12 a bunch of stuff] in the Help namepsace, and [http://transformers.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special%3AAllpages&from=&namespace=4 a bunch of other stuff] in the Transformers Wiki (aka "meta") namespace. This is needlessly confusing. I vastly prefer "Help" for the purposes of typing it all the time, but, the meta namespace is more general purpose and standard... and possibly required for some pages like the title blacklist. So I am inclined to shuffle all the Help namespace pages over to the meta namespace. Does anybody have an opinion on this? --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 17:37, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
:Help seems fine to me. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:45, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

== "The Battlestars" page disappeared ==

When the "Battlestar" (team) page got changed to "Battlestars", then "The Battlestars" page, which was the manga, disappeared. What happened? --[[User:Might Gaine|Might Gaine]] 13:36, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
:I don't think that page actually existed in the first place. It was a red link before any moving was done - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 14:04, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
::Hmm. My bad. --[[User:Might Gaine|Might Gaine]] 15:01, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

==Comic character box format Part IV==
I believe we should change it from 'Major characters' to 'Featured characters' like we do in the cartoon recap articles. Doing it as 'Major characters' means writers of these comic articles will just not bother list the incidental characters, such as humans, even ones with dialogue, and if any of these characters have articles, they become orphaned articles. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 06:32, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
:Well I have gone thru nearly the entire U.S. Marvel series and I think I've included just about everyone who had a speaking line, except for folks who were un-named and such. If someone wants to change from "major" to "featured", it doesn't matter to me, but I'm not gonna go thru all 80 issues again and do it. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 20:18, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
::I was concerned because I was looking for the article for that [[Professor Goring]] guy from [[Spotlight: Shockwave]] so I could update the article. To my surprise, Shockwave didn't link or even name him, and somebody had eliminated the 'human' column altogether because evidently we only dealt with 'major' characters. Essentially, Goring's article became orphaned. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 20:32, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Well that was dumb; he should indeed be re-added. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 20:39, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Uh, yeah. That's not good. I support the change to "Featured" not just for this... but let's face it, this wiki is not simply about "Major" characters. The vast wealth of non-major character information is what makes this wiki great, and we should make sure that they are properly linked to so people can find them, even if they weren't looking. "Oh, hey, who's this?" --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:39, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
::::MistaTee, well sometimes even unnamed characters can be interesting enough to warrant their own articles if they are interesting in some way/stand out in some way. After all, we have an entire category devoted to unnamed characters. So I think they should have been mentioned in the article in some way. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:45, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
:::::Oh, I agree, and if I've missed any, please feel free to add. I do think the 80 issues I've updated is a lot better than they were before though. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 13:58, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
::::::Of course. Is there article template pages somewhere on this wiki or are we copy pasting every time we write a new article? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:07, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
:::::::I've just been going through the Stormbringer articles, and I was ''not at all'' happy with the with the way characters who didn't have significant dialogue (such as ''every'' Pretender besides Bludgeon) were for the most part not even mentioned in the articles. I assume the original writer of these articles just didn't know who they were, but frankly it's just sloppy considering the information available on this wiki even in 2006. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:38, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
::::::::I believe I reformatted them to the new format, but just copied the character list from what was there. When I get the chance to re-read, I will add in the others, if someone doesn't beat me to it. Oh, and I am copying and pasting from the previous article, but trying to be consistent. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 15:31, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

:So... what becomes of the former "minor characters" list? Do we even care about those dudes? Take [[Totaled!]] for example -- almost every Earth Autobot to date appears in the story (and most of the Decepticons), but the page currently lists only the speaking ones. Gods help the poor soul who decides to take that task on, but when some nobody like Air Raid makes a rare appearance in the comics, it seems worth noting. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 15:25, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
::IMO, I think those characters should perhaps be in a cameos section, a subset of "Items of note". But I sure as hellz am not going thru the whole Marvel series again to do that. Someone else can have a go at it. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 15:31, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

==Navigation boxes for shared US/UK stories==
I wish I'd noticed [[user:MistaTee|MistaTee]]'s changes to the Marvel US navigation boxes sooner, but that's water under the bridge now. When I set the boxes up, I deliberately left out certain links at points where the continuities split and come back together. The point was that there would be no duplicate links in the box. One hopes that the reader following the UK chain will be smart enough to figure out that the only "Next" link shown will lead to the next step in the chain. This goes double for US stories that have the same Next and Previous links for the UK. Why do the same links need to be duplicated?

Compare:
* [http://transformers.wikia.com/index.php?title=Cold_War%21&oldid=129298 Old version of Cold War]. There's no "next" for the UK spot, 'cause it would just be the same as the US "next" link.
* [[Cold War!|current version of Cold War!]] - two "next" links are identical.

Also compare:
* [http://transformers.wikia.com/index.php?title=Dark_Star%21&oldid=152775 Old version of Dark Star!] - no extraneous info.
* [[Dark Star!|Current version of Dark Star!]] - ''two'' redundant links.

To sum up my take on current version:

Minus:
* Redundant links add to confusion
* Double nav box is ugly and should be avoided when possible

Plus:
* Lists UK publication number right up front
* Consistent format for all US issues.

But I've never been one to favor consistency at the expense of practicality. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 17:54, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

:Now see, I didn't like '''not''' having a next for the UK, even if it's the same as the US one. What I think we really need is a revision of the nav box, and maybe have some more options. First, I think there should be a separator line between the US and UK nav. Secondly, maybe some logic could be programmed in so that IF "next2"="next" THEN it would say "same as U.S. version" or something along those lines. Same for the "prev"/"prev2" naturally. Thoughts? --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 18:10, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
::That sounds like an excellent trade-off -- it gets rid of the bothersome parts while keeping the good bits. Uhhh.... anybody have any idea how to do it? The coding of these things is an utter mystery to me. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 18:20, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

== How to spell Malay. ==

Hello everyone, I've noticed that on the 'English/Malay' dubs, people have spelt word 'Malay' wrong. It doesn't have a 'y', because 'Maylay' is incorrect, so if you see any mistakes, please correct it, thank you! Also, can we not put the word crack head next to it? It's quite offensive.<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2008-03-15T14:59:29Z

219.95.248.83: /* How to spell Malay. */ new section

==Archives==
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive1|Archive1]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive2|Archive2]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive3|Archive3]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive4|Archive4]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive5|Archive5]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive6|Archive6]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive7|Archive7]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive8|Archive8]]

== Continuity / Timeline ==
I'm trying to make some sense of how the various major continuities are handled, overview-wise. Some have their own continuity page; IDW's just got a timeline, with overview stuff shoved here and there among the individual miniseries. Some don't have anything. Some, like the G1 cartoon, are not much more than lists. The ones that exist tend to be hard to find, aren't categorized uniformly, etc... is there a master format for this stuff?{{unsigned|Repowers|12:15, 29 October 2007}}
:There is no master format for continuity pages. Please feel free to make one! It would be a good thing to have! --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 00:55, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:: You know, I think it would be hot if once we got more timelines up, we began putting Chronology links to the timetable on the story pages. Several Dreamwave comic pages have them, and I think IDW comics should too, since IDW really isn't telling the story in a linear fashion.--[[User:Zodberg|Zodberg]] 09:36, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:::Sounds like a good idea. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 13:51, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
::Would it make sense to have an overview writeup at the start of each timeline, a few paragraphs or so? Or should "continuity" be a separate page? Where should a chronological list of issues go -- publisher's page, continuity page, timeline page? That's not such a problem with, say, Marvel G1, but Dreamwave's a little messier, IDW's all over the place, and gods help you if you want to sort out the mess that is Marvel UK. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 14:29, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:: A continuity page should have the following (in my opinion):
:: * A one-paragraph description of the continuity, not more than a few sentences long.
:: * A list of what media belongs to this continuity (which can include some stuff that's vaguely contradictory, but should exclude stuff that's way out there, like Earthforce relative to G1 comics). This can be sorted by publication order, or internal chronology, but if there's a major difference between the two, it should be spelled out.
:: * An overall description of the main events in that continuity, focusing on the events actually chronicled (not the distant past). In particular, for most continuities, changes in the leadership of either side, the changing status (living/dead, present/absent, duplicated by Straxus/encoded on a floppy, etc.)of the big two leaders (usually Optimus Prime and Megatron), any events involving Unicron or Primus, and introductions of major teams or groups of characters (Headmasters, Fuzors) should be in the summary.
:: * If necessary, a timeline, which may end up integrated with one of the above parts.
:: * Pointers to important and closely-related continuities (again, such as Earthforce), discussion of divergences, etc. [[User:JW|JW]] 15:14, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:::All that sounds pretty good, though I wouldn't get too hung up on following individual characters too much, even the leaders. In Marvel G1, at least, they changed over on a pretty regular basis.
:::On a related note... this and a lot of other overview-type pages are really lost in the shuffle. They should be top-level pages, with everything branching off of them and linking back to them, but instead they're buried and nothing links to them. You start off reading, say, the article on [[Spotlight: Soundwave]]. Where do you go from there to find out more? The IDW issues category? That's the only link out of that page. If you're a newcomer, or even someone with an imperfect memory, how do you know what comes next? Either the individual issue pages need to link to the timeline and continuity pages, or the category page does, or... something.
:::Taking care of it on the category page might be simplest, like what's on the Category:Marvel US issues page. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 19:12, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:::: Yes, the site is sadly lacking in both "uplinks" and "sidelinks" for the media; links from a TV episode to the TV series, links from an issue of a comic to an overview of the comic, links from one comic to the next comic in that series, etc. [[User:JW|JW]] 19:21, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
::::: I'm still poking around and figuring out what's been done and what's needed; it might take a while to figure out how to start cleaning things up. It looks like we've got some random timelines started (still need ones for the Beast era and a few others), as well as continuity pages for some but not all of the major storylines, so I suppose each major continuity should have both kinds of pages. I wonder if there's a way to use a category or subcategory to get individual episode/issue pages to quickly link back to the main overview pages?... -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 19:28, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:::: JW, we do have that comics nav template, though I like the comic infobox on wikipedia more. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 20:04, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
::::: Ah... http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Comicnav ...so we do. Very useful. Now we just gotta propagate it over a few hundred comic issue... :S -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 20:25, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
::::: Also, the nav setup only can link up one level. So Infiltration #2 can link up to the main Infiltration page, but not to the IDW continuity page above that. Would putting a variant of this template on the main page for each miniseries, linking up to the continuity page, work instead? Then you're never more than two clicks away from an individual issue to the continuity overview. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 20:25, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
:::::: That, or somehow add it to the main comicnav template, perhaps in <small>small letters</small> above the series name. I don't wanna step on anyone's toes though. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 20:45, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
::::::: That'd make the most sense, to add a "Continuity" level to the template, or alternately a lower-end "Mini-series" option. But hell if I can make sense out of how these things work... that might be a rainy day project, figuring that out. :\ -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 20:51, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

==Image Copyrights==
I asked awhile ago, and nobody seemed to know, so...

I've always been under the impression that images {{c}} someone else should be credited ''not'' just with a note that they belong to someone else, but a ''year'', for much the same reasons we identify ''who'' the image belongs to rather than simply saying 'we don't own it, but it's fair use.' The more info we provide, the more 'seriously' the copyright is being taken. if we wipe our ass with an unadorned, <nowiki>{{fairuse}}</nowiki> clearly we don't think the holder of the copyright is ''important''... or something.

I have a script I've been poking at. It can run through every image detail page on the wiki through a regular expression and pick out which images don't have copyright owners (Hasbro or Takara-- you're supposed to ID which even if you're using <nowiki>{{hastak}}</nowiki>,) which don't have dates, and which don't have any sort of copyright notice at all. (A significant chunk of our images have no notices that they belong to someone else.) It could also drop the offending images into categories to be sorted out and properly labeled. (I imagine I'd give it Steve-o and let it do so logged in as the bot to avoid the update-floods.)

...is anyone interested in this? Does it seem like a good idea? Terrible idea? ...Bueler? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 15:29, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

==Cartoon Episode Format Mark II==
Picking up an old thread here... per some changes I just finished making to all the Beast Era episode pages, IMO:
* The one-line summary should be bold. It's the single most important thing on the page; your eye should leap right to it.
* It should be the very first thing on the page, above the nav box (barring temporary templates like "pics needed".)
* It should be free of links. They're distracting and ugly, and it's kinda absurd to think someone's going to click right off the summary to see what a "Maximal" or whatever is. Links can easily be integrated into the body of the plot summary.

I'd also rather see Quotes before Stats, to keep all the in-universe stuff together before moving to out-universe stuff like writers, air dates, commentary, order of appearance, etc. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 00:13, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

:I agree with all of this, except for the one-line summary being above the nav box. Pure personal preference, though, rather than any sort of functionality - I just don't like the way it looks. In fact, I think putting it below the nav box actually ''helps'' its notice-ability - it "frames" the summary quite nicely between the nav box and the contents box. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 00:22, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
::Heh, I see it the opposite way -- having the summary first provides a frame for the inevitable white space that accompanies the nav box. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 06:24, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

::Picking up on what I said above, putting the stats section down below not just the extended summary but now below the quotes section as well is something I strongly oppose. Episode writers do not get the recognition they deserve. We should not be burying their credits like that. That section belongs ''above'' the summary. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 03:21, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
:::I do hear what you're saying, but honestly I'm less bothered by the recognition factor than by the inconsistency with comic format, where all that junk ''is'' up front (though it often looks pretty bad, IMO.) If it were ''just'' the writer credit, I'd be okay with having it up front (though I ain't gonna be the one who goes back through 78 Beast Era episode pages to change it!) But then you get into the odd condition of having that one bit of info up front, while the rest of the standard information external to the episode's events is much deeper in the article. Having much more stuff up front than that makes for a messy, unattractive, and harder-to-read format compared to having it all bundled in the Stats section... IMO, natch.
:::"If "recognition" is the concern, heck, think of the animators who slaved a lot more than the writers ever did to bring each episode to life. They get no credits at all. Neither does Robert Buckley, who provided music for both Beast series. The list goes on and on. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 06:24, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
::::The information I am suggesting be up front would only be three lines (Written by, Directed by, air date), which I don't think would be very intrusive at all. To my mind, before the summary is the only logical place for this information to be presented, as episodes themselves generally present those two credits up front, and air date is a known factor when watching an episode when it debuts.
::::On the issue of recognition, you make a good point, however my concern is a bit different. Robert Buckley may not get a lot of recognition from the fandom for the music of Beast Wars, but it's not like they give someone ''else'' all the credit on that score, pun semi-intended. But the writers? The fandom often enough acts as if Forward and DiTillio wrote every single word of Beast Wars, and Skir (alone, of course, as the Isenberg Uncertainty Principle remains in full effect) the same for Beast Machines. The story editors are obviously the most important writers, but they didn't do it all on their own.
::::Burying the names of episode writers down below the summary and quotes sections just doesn't sit right with me, is all. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 04:46, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::Hrm... combined with Steve-o's consistency argument, I suppose I could go along with doing it this way, with them all tucked together and separate from/below the one line summary. Written By and Air Date are in one little combined pair of lines now, an easy cut-n-paste to move up front. I don't think anyone's added Director credits to any of the episodes, by the by.
:::::As I said, I'm in no great hurry to do it myself -- my main concern was that the Beast Era show pages had drifted into all sorts of different arrangements, some of which looked pretty sloppy. For better or worse, they're all uniform now. If we're gonna change the layout, let's work on getting one sample page ''just right'', then we can worry about propagating it. To that end, have a look at "[[Chain of Command]]", see if it clicks for you. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 05:33, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm thinking if we could merge the ''Japanese title'' into the '''''Stats''' section'' because it seems to fit the section better. --[[User:TX55|TX55]] 03:14, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't have much of a preference, personally, about how to organize these things. However, I do feel pretty strongly that it should be more or less the same for both cartoon episodes and comic issues. Having different organizational schemes for different sorts of fiction doesn't serve much purpose, and makes things harder to get used to. (On the other hand, I ''also'' feel strongly that all of our passages relating fictional events should be in the same tense regardless of if they happen to be on a character page or a story page, but apparently that makes me insane, so don't take my pleas for consistency too seriously.) --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 02:35, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

==Cartoon continuity headings==
Have we decided on a definative format for this yet? most of the pages with characters who appeared in Sunbow's G1 through to the japanese series (and maybe Beast Wars as well) have quite different headings, and I recall we were worried about ''Transformers Animated'' causing problems with all the 'Animated continuity' headings on character pages. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 07:08, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
:I think we had decided on using "cartoon" instead of "animated." So use "cartoon continuity," or for those who appear in more than one cartoon continuity, use "Generation 1 cartoon continuity," "Beast Wars cartoon continuity," etc. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 07:13, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
::Can we have Diagnostic Drone change all occurrences of "Animated continuity" to "Cartoon continuity"? That'll require some cleanup in the <i>Animated</i> articles, but there are far fewer of those than there are of G1 subjects that are currently mislabeled. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 17:54, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

== Section-title master list ==

I've made a sandbox for the purpose of assembling a [[User:Jackpot/Sandbox/Sections|master list of all section titles]], their relation to each other, and their proper wording/formatting. Please discuss; I've introduced some new ideas, and I'd love to see a consistent guide established. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 01:04, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
:Wow, I think this really look nice and useful. ;D --[[User:TX55|TX55]] 03:44, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

== "First go here! Next go here." ==
I was thinking a bit about the various problems we've got around here -- stuff like incomplete image descriptions, orphaned articles, etc. There's really no one central place where a newcomer (or a regular who feels like doing something useful but doesn't know what) can go to find a quick list of things that need doing. The current help pages just send you to the list of articles in need of creation, which is kind of daunting, especially for a newcomer who has to learn a million standards and Wikia tags. Is there a more comprehensive way to point people in the direction of useful things they could be doing? Whatever it might be, it should include links to:
* Pages in need of creation
* Orphaned pages
* Stubs
* Pics needed
* Any current projects, like the Beast Wars one. Hell, I couldn't find that thing if my life depended on it.
...as well as a note about common problems: dead/missing storylinks, incomplete image descriptions, and whatever else. (Heck, who knows? Maybe it could even distract an IP person long enough to prevent them from screwing with captions.... ahh, who'm I kidding?} -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 21:51, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

:There are some of those things catalogued [[Special:Specialpages|here]], but I think making links to the most important of these categories, and placing them together in one easy-to-find link off the main page, would be best. Perhaps on the Help contents page, since it's linked right off the main page already, in the most logical location? I think that link is a bit small, for what it's worth. --[[User:Sntint|Sntint]] 22:09, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
::One of the projects in the back of my head is a help-page/guide specifically breaking down the creation of character pages, plus the use of "common templates" for them (disambigs, stubs, notes). I'll see if I can scrounge up some time to rough-copy one. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 22:56, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

==Other Maintenance Templates?==
I haven't had much time to do more "substantial" wiki edits lately, but I've been prepping for later with the charstub sub-categories. Fiction really isn't my bag... I mean, I know it in general, but not issue titles and numbers and bla bla. But I figure it's also nice to have the "really needs a lot of stuff" pages separated from the "just needs some stuff in one subsection" ones, especially once I can make a concentrated effort to update the toy sections of various pages. I've been thinking about other similar "needs maintenance" template/categories, but I thought I'd bring it up here since I'm not sure who else might make use of them...<br>
I've noticed quite a lot of pages missing storylinks. I'm not intending on going through a big wiki-wide hunt, but as I go through the stubs and other pages doing little maintenance and tweaks, well, I think I'd like to be able to mark pages I come across that are missing those links they should have. Picture and quote? Isaac Sumdac and/or Tutorbot, "I cannot believe I programmed you with such simplistic information!" (Idea courtesy of Trent Troop.)<br>
I'd swear there was another one, but right now, too tired to think of it and must sleep. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 06:53, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
:Perhaps a tag for a page with too many damn redlinks for concepts that will never need articles?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 07:08, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
::I don't think that will be neccessary, as it's a simple matter of removing the [[ and <nowiki>]]</nowiki>s. Storylinks, though, require some research. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 15:40, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
:::I usually label such pages with <nowiki>{{stub|storylinks}}</nowiki>. [[User:JW|JW]] 15:44, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
::::Trick is, often they're not really stubs, are they? the main info is there, there's just not a "where'd this happen?" link. And maybe it's the data-manager in me that says this, but I think it'd be a lot easier to have a common problem like lack of storylinks as a category all its own, all together for easy identification and maintenance. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 16:11, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation ==

We need a consensus on hiw we handle disambuigation in article titles. We've had some moving between [[Silverbolt (BW)]] and [[Silverbolt (Fuzor)]], and [[Dirge (Timelines)]] and [[Dirge (Whatever the Botcon 05 set was)]] because there are two Silverbolts in BW and two Dirges in Timelines. However, since one of those Dirges and one of those Silverbolts are G1 characters, the (BW) and (Timelines) tags are fine for the other two. The tags are simply for keeping the articles separate; not for telling you what continuity they're in. Plus, (Timelines) is much easier to type than "(Botcon boxset name I can't remember)". --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 23:35, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

:Somewhat related to the discussion at [[Talk:Starscream (Timelines)]]. My personal criteria is that a name used for two (or more) characters in the same toyline requires more specific disambiguation, regardless of the characters' origin, because readers shouldn't be expected to remember whether some character was already in another toyline. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 23:51, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

::So... what should disambigs be?
:# Distinguished ''only'' when strictly necessary. "Silverbolt (BW)" is fine because, while there were 2 Silverbolt toys in the BW Toyline, the other one is actually Silverbolt (G1)- so only one entry is trying 'sits' in the (BW) disambig, and no more specific disambing is needed. Parenthetical disambigs should be the broadest possible category the article can sit in without conflicting with another article, (usually a continuity family or franchise.) Absolutely no 'bumping' of disambigs as a concession to aesthetics.
:# Distinguished on a logical basis. "Silverbolt (Fuzor)" because there are two Silverbolts in the BW toyline, and the article title should not allow for confusion between the two.
:# Providing continuty info. A hypothetical new character Roller in the 2008 Universe line would be "Roller (Classic)" not "Roller (Universe)"-- so that the article title doesn't mislead people into thinking he's part of the 2004 Universe continuity.
::My problem with #2 ''and'' #3 is that the diambig isn't supposed to convey that information. The first line of the article, right below the title does. It will say 'Silverbolt is a Fuzor in the Beast Wars continuity family...' or 'Roller is a Ultracon in the Classics portion of the Generation 1 continuity family.'
::We are currently usign method #1. I oppose a change to methods 2 or 3 for the following reasons:
:# The '''first line''' of the article already supplies the information that solutions 2 & 3 would seek to add- and does it ''better.''
:# Implementing 2 or 3 would make it harder for ''editors'' to know where article are sitting ("I know there was only one Silverbolt in BW, why is my link to Silverbolt (BW) broken?")
:# The purpose of the parenthetical disambigs is not to convey info- it is to keep articles with the same title from sitting in the same namespace. Attempting to make disambigs convey information actually ''adds ambiguity'', because it would force the the locations the articles sit in to become ''less'' standard.
::Let diambigs be disambigs. If we want to make continuity notes clearer or more prominent, we can look at revising our approach to '''them'''. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:41, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

::We already have [[Help:Disambiguation]] to more or less lay this out. (I've just made a couple small changes to it for clarification.) There is going to be no simple rule of thumb which leads to tbe best results in every case, so make the parenthetical as brief and clear as you can. Derik is correct that the purpose of the parenthetical is to give the articles different names so the database doesn't get confused. To help out editors when we make links, it is good for them to be short and easy to remember. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 21:35, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

So, should we move [[Silverbolt (Fuzor)]] and [[Dirge (Decent into Evil)]] and the mirrorverse guys back to [[Silverbolt (BW)]], [[Dirge (Timelines)]] and [[mirrorverse guys (Timelines)]]? --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 22:42, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
:Wait to see if others have strong feelings/argument first. (We have a policy, but it's subject to conseunsus, remember? Also- I think I wrote most of that page so my point of view is unfairly over-represented there.) ''On review, no, apparently this is one policy page I '''didn't''' write. ...why can't I tell Steve-o's writing apart from my own? Scary. :~(
:Personally I say emphatically yes on Dirge, indifferent affirmative on Silverbolt, and wait and see on the Shattered Glass pages. We don't now where/if they fit in existing continuity. There's no point in movinf them a half-dozen times while arguing about unknowables. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:13, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

== Pages about fan sites ==

Is there a policy about this? I wanted to add TF Pulp, but I didn't see any other TF sites on here at all, so I figured I should ask first.
{{unsigned|Might Gaine|2008-02-27T14:04:54}}

:We don't give unofficial sites their own articles. You can link to information on TF Pulp from appropriate pre-existing articles, though. That sort of thing enhances the wiki by allowing people to find further information on the topics they are reading about. Just put it into an "External links" section right before the categories. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 21:18, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

==Cartoon episode title cards redundancy==
Why are we moving towards using the title cards of episodes for the main/starting picture of episode articles? Isn't it redundant to have a boring screenshot with the name of the episode placed next to...... the name of the episode in the actual article itself? Wouldn't it be more interesting to do what we have been doing, and use a screen capture that somehow encapsulates the whole episode, or shows a pivitol point in it that sticks in our memory? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 02:55, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
:I've wondered the same thing myself, but figured it was a done deal. I too support the "memorable/encapsulating moment" approach. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 03:04, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
::Uh... I'm sorry, I think I started it. ;-) When I was doing some early RiD ep stubs I threw in the titlecards because the early episodes were boring as sin. I think McFeely did it for the JP eps because they tend to have those painterly titlecards...
::Really, it's just something you do if there isn't a ''good'' representative image. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:39, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
:::Like Code of Hero (an article that needs a major overhaul itself), I originally put an image of Dinobot's sword lying on the deck of his quarters, because it looked poignant. Did the same for various other Beast Wars episodes. Then Interrobang replaced them all with screencap of the title screens. Gah. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 07:05, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
::::So tell him to stop! ;) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:58, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::Sigh. I did it because I like consistency, even with Japanese series. "Dinobot's sword on the ground" might be your favoritest image ever but it's the odd duck out now. (It also looks terrible due to the artifacting brought about by needlessly screwing with the brightness and contrast.) [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 08:36, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::Consistency is Victory- but Transformers Victory was incredibly boring. (Victory Gundam was pretty good though...) [[The Weak Component]], [[Survivor]] and [[End of the Line]] all have virtually ''identical'' title screens- an aerial shot of the Cybertropolis spaceport. That sucks— I'd much rather have an iconic image from each episode. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 10:07, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::::I agree. Using iconic images is really good for the most episode guides, such as [[Code of Hero]], [[The Weak Component]], and several [[B.O.T. (episode)|others]], especially "Code of Hero" and "The Weak Component" are great and good examples. --[[User:TX55|TX55]] 13:38, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Personally, I started doing for the Japanese series for the reason Derik gives, because it was usually a unique image made for the title card, or a good one that's representative of the episode. There were some duds, but... consistency. And then... ''Masterforce'' started to do really, ''really'' boring ones, and I was about to give up, then it occurred to me to start using the image from the next-ep preview, which proved a winner in most cases (in fact, I may yet go back and change swap out some of the title-card images with these, if it's a better option). The mention of Victory here amuses me, though, 'cause it's a good example of title cards being boring - it's the same two images of Star Saber and Deathsaurus, rotated in and out, for the whole series. I've used them for the first two episodes just to get them on show, but I plan to use the title-images from the next-episode previews for this one. I mean, when I wake up from the dullness-inducing stupor that Victory induces. - McFeely, at work
::::::::I reverted Dinobot's sword back to the version I uploaded. As I had not viewed the page much since last year, I didn't realize that Repowers tried to brighten it up for some reason - that moment is supposed to focus on the sword, not the room. And it's the 'odd duck out' now because some people have been replacing whatever had served as the main image with the title card. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 12:24, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::I brightened it because, when it's reduced for the actual episode page where most people are going to see it, you can't tell what the heck you're looking at. Right now it looks a little bit of vague white stuff in darkness. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 13:36, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::Vaat? I can see if plenty fine there, unless you're using a very, very high resolution that makes everything tiny. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:54, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::Could be my home monitor, which is HUGE. It does look more discernable from a work computer, though IMO it could still stand to be a tad brighter. -- [[user:repowers|repowers]], not signed in
I've changed my mind on this situation after mulling it over. A winner is FNN. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 03:31, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
:FNN sounds even more like a Simon Furman sound effect than FFN :D --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:26, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
::You clearly changed your name after I replied. There's no another answer. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 04:33, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Hnh. FNN never DID want to live forever. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:55, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

==Help/policy page namespaces==
As part of the help/policy page revamp I plan to do... eventually... I kind of want to consolidate the pages all into a single namespace. Right now we have [http://transformers.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special%3AAllpages&from=&namespace=12 a bunch of stuff] in the Help namepsace, and [http://transformers.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special%3AAllpages&from=&namespace=4 a bunch of other stuff] in the Transformers Wiki (aka "meta") namespace. This is needlessly confusing. I vastly prefer "Help" for the purposes of typing it all the time, but, the meta namespace is more general purpose and standard... and possibly required for some pages like the title blacklist. So I am inclined to shuffle all the Help namespace pages over to the meta namespace. Does anybody have an opinion on this? --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 17:37, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
:Help seems fine to me. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:45, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

== "The Battlestars" page disappeared ==

When the "Battlestar" (team) page got changed to "Battlestars", then "The Battlestars" page, which was the manga, disappeared. What happened? --[[User:Might Gaine|Might Gaine]] 13:36, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
:I don't think that page actually existed in the first place. It was a red link before any moving was done - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 14:04, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
::Hmm. My bad. --[[User:Might Gaine|Might Gaine]] 15:01, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

==Comic character box format Part IV==
I believe we should change it from 'Major characters' to 'Featured characters' like we do in the cartoon recap articles. Doing it as 'Major characters' means writers of these comic articles will just not bother list the incidental characters, such as humans, even ones with dialogue, and if any of these characters have articles, they become orphaned articles. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 06:32, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
:Well I have gone thru nearly the entire U.S. Marvel series and I think I've included just about everyone who had a speaking line, except for folks who were un-named and such. If someone wants to change from "major" to "featured", it doesn't matter to me, but I'm not gonna go thru all 80 issues again and do it. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 20:18, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
::I was concerned because I was looking for the article for that [[Professor Goring]] guy from [[Spotlight: Shockwave]] so I could update the article. To my surprise, Shockwave didn't link or even name him, and somebody had eliminated the 'human' column altogether because evidently we only dealt with 'major' characters. Essentially, Goring's article became orphaned. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 20:32, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Well that was dumb; he should indeed be re-added. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 20:39, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Uh, yeah. That's not good. I support the change to "Featured" not just for this... but let's face it, this wiki is not simply about "Major" characters. The vast wealth of non-major character information is what makes this wiki great, and we should make sure that they are properly linked to so people can find them, even if they weren't looking. "Oh, hey, who's this?" --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:39, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
::::MistaTee, well sometimes even unnamed characters can be interesting enough to warrant their own articles if they are interesting in some way/stand out in some way. After all, we have an entire category devoted to unnamed characters. So I think they should have been mentioned in the article in some way. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:45, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
:::::Oh, I agree, and if I've missed any, please feel free to add. I do think the 80 issues I've updated is a lot better than they were before though. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 13:58, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
::::::Of course. Is there article template pages somewhere on this wiki or are we copy pasting every time we write a new article? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:07, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
:::::::I've just been going through the Stormbringer articles, and I was ''not at all'' happy with the with the way characters who didn't have significant dialogue (such as ''every'' Pretender besides Bludgeon) were for the most part not even mentioned in the articles. I assume the original writer of these articles just didn't know who they were, but frankly it's just sloppy considering the information available on this wiki even in 2006. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:38, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
::::::::I believe I reformatted them to the new format, but just copied the character list from what was there. When I get the chance to re-read, I will add in the others, if someone doesn't beat me to it. Oh, and I am copying and pasting from the previous article, but trying to be consistent. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 15:31, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

:So... what becomes of the former "minor characters" list? Do we even care about those dudes? Take [[Totaled!]] for example -- almost every Earth Autobot to date appears in the story (and most of the Decepticons), but the page currently lists only the speaking ones. Gods help the poor soul who decides to take that task on, but when some nobody like Air Raid makes a rare appearance in the comics, it seems worth noting. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 15:25, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
::IMO, I think those characters should perhaps be in a cameos section, a subset of "Items of note". But I sure as hellz am not going thru the whole Marvel series again to do that. Someone else can have a go at it. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 15:31, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

==Navigation boxes for shared US/UK stories==
I wish I'd noticed [[user:MistaTee|MistaTee]]'s changes to the Marvel US navigation boxes sooner, but that's water under the bridge now. When I set the boxes up, I deliberately left out certain links at points where the continuities split and come back together. The point was that there would be no duplicate links in the box. One hopes that the reader following the UK chain will be smart enough to figure out that the only "Next" link shown will lead to the next step in the chain. This goes double for US stories that have the same Next and Previous links for the UK. Why do the same links need to be duplicated?

Compare:
* [http://transformers.wikia.com/index.php?title=Cold_War%21&oldid=129298 Old version of Cold War]. There's no "next" for the UK spot, 'cause it would just be the same as the US "next" link.
* [[Cold War!|current version of Cold War!]] - two "next" links are identical.

Also compare:
* [http://transformers.wikia.com/index.php?title=Dark_Star%21&oldid=152775 Old version of Dark Star!] - no extraneous info.
* [[Dark Star!|Current version of Dark Star!]] - ''two'' redundant links.

To sum up my take on current version:

Minus:
* Redundant links add to confusion
* Double nav box is ugly and should be avoided when possible

Plus:
* Lists UK publication number right up front
* Consistent format for all US issues.

But I've never been one to favor consistency at the expense of practicality. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 17:54, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

:Now see, I didn't like '''not''' having a next for the UK, even if it's the same as the US one. What I think we really need is a revision of the nav box, and maybe have some more options. First, I think there should be a separator line between the US and UK nav. Secondly, maybe some logic could be programmed in so that IF "next2"="next" THEN it would say "same as U.S. version" or something along those lines. Same for the "prev"/"prev2" naturally. Thoughts? --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] 18:10, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
::That sounds like an excellent trade-off -- it gets rid of the bothersome parts while keeping the good bits. Uhhh.... anybody have any idea how to do it? The coding of these things is an utter mystery to me. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 18:20, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

== How to spell Malay. ==

Hello everyone, I've noticed that on the 'English/Malay' dubs, people have spelt word 'Malay' wrong. It doesn't have a 'y', because 'Maylay' is incorrect, so if you see any mistakes, please correct it, thank you! :)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Browning

2008-03-15T14:53:19Z

219.95.248.83:

:''Browning is a [[Decepticon]] in the [[Masterforce]] portion of the [[Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''

[[Image:G1_Browning_boxart.jpg|thumb|right|250px|He's the bravest of all Decepticons{{m-}}You think [[Megatron (G1)|Megs]] or [[Starscream (G1)|Screamer]] would be able to live with being called "adorable"?]]

'''Browning''' is a small pet [[Transformer]] given to [[Cancer]] from [[Mega]]. He is adorable, playful and good-natured. Not your typical Decepticon at all. Being tiny, he transforms into a human-sized handgun that shoots various projectiles and liquids, but rarely bullets.

:''English-Malay dub name:'' '''B.M.'''

==Fiction==
===Masterforce cartoon===
:''Voice actor'': [[Kyōko Yamada]]

{{charstubfiction}}

===Masterforce manga===

{{-}}
==Toys==
===Generation 1===
*'''Browning''' (1988)
**''Japanese ID number'': '''D-308'''
**''Accessories'': Left & right "closed" fists, left & right "open" fists, 2 "Sniper Shot" rifles, 5 bullets

[[Image:G1_Browning_toy.jpg|thumb|right|150px|Why does a guy that turns into a gun need... so many ''guns?'']]

: Browning transforms into a [[Wikipedia:FN Model 1910|Browning M1910 pistol]]. In his quite realistic pistol mode, he can fire bullets (or his fists) from the muzzle thanks to a spring-loaded assembly attached to his trigger. This rather weak firing mechanism can also be triggered by pressing the small yellow sight above the muzzle. He retains the [[gimmick]] in his robot mode's right arm, but since it is disconnected from the gun-mode trigger, a second smaller trigger on the arm proper is used. His two silver-chromed rifles can be held in his "open" fists, or plugged into holes on his shoulders.

{{-}}

==Trivia==
* Browning was originally part of the "Gun Robo" subset of the ''[[Microchange]]'' series, just as [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] was.

* Browning is one of the very few Transformers toys meant to be a ''(roughly)'' 1:1-[[scale]] representation of the character outside of the [[Real Gear Robots]] line.

{{-}}
==External links==
*[http://www.tfu.info/1988/Destron/Browning/browning.htm Browning] at TFU.info

[[Category: Decepticons]]
[[Category: Masterforce characters]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Omni Productions

2008-03-15T14:51:59Z

219.95.248.83: /* Examples */

According to Madman's info on their upcoming Masterforce DVD, the languages are English and Japanese, so unless they screwed up the listing, they might have included the dub on there. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 22:09, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

==Examples==
This page BADLY needs some examples of the dub madness. Also, Spaceship Bruce.

In fact, it'd be terrific if each episode had its own "Misquotes" section with the best of the quotes from the dubs. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 10:26, 13 February 2008 (EST)
: Oh no no, no no no no no...I watched Transformers RTM dub on T.V. when I was a kid and it was cool. Now it makes ears bleed, and all the Transformers in the show sound like they were dubbed by one poor, unfortunate voice actor. Who sounded British. Sometimes. Almost. Maybe. -- akindofdrifter<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Dashtacker

2008-03-15T14:51:16Z

219.95.248.83:

{{picsneeded|Toy}}

:''Dashtacker is <strike>an Autobot</strike> '''two''' [[Autobot|Autobots]] in the [[Victory (franchise)|Victory]] portion of the [[Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].

[[Image:Dashtacker.jpg|right|thumb|250px||"My card art looks surprisingly like a cassette-bot!"]]

'''Dashtacker''' (ダッシュタッカー, da-sshu-ta-kkaa) is an important member of the [[Multiforce]] team. He also happens to be the background member of Multiforce. Strong and reliable, Dashtacker is also the least noted member of the team. Fittingly he is composed of the [[Autobots]] [[Dash (G1)|Dash]] and [[Tacker]], warriors even less noticeable then Dashtacker himself. He is the perfect backbone for the group and makes a great right side to [[Landcross]].

''Packaging name:'' '''Dashtacer'''<br>
''English/Malay dub name:'' '''Batchtaster''' (no, seriously)

==Fiction==
===Victory cartoon===
:''Voice actor: [[Yoshikazu Hirano]] (Japan)''

Dashtacker served aboard the Sector One base of the Galactic Defense Forces under the [[Brainmaster]] Car Trio. He got offended at the idea that his boss, [[Wingwaver]], might be left on Planet V while the rest transfered to Earth. He went so far as to shout this at [[Star Saber (G1)|Star Saber]] who quickly pointed out that, before he was so rudely interupted, he was including Wingwaver in the transfer. Everyone except Dashtacker thought it was quite a laugh. During a search mission in the Amazon, Tacker got stuck in the mud which helped reveal the Autobot position. Big oops.

==Toys==

{{charstub}}
[[Category: Combined forms]]
[[Category: Multiforce]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>