MediaWiki - User contributions [en]

Scale

2007-03-22T19:50:47Z

24.126.139.103: /* Citybots */ - lilformers is not official art, dude.

[[Image:DreamwaveCover6.jpg|right|250px|thumb|...since when is a sedan 9 stories tall?]]
Scale in the ''Transformers multiverse'' is, to put not too fine a point on it, screwed.

Virtually no generation, eara, franchise, fiction, toyline or other incarnation of ''Transformers'' has presented scale in a consistent, logical or easily-believable fashion. Most fans would agree that one needs to either ignore it or accept it, lest they be tempted to actually explain away these problems and in the process undoubtedly [[fanwank]] themselves into oblivion. There has only been one notable exception, the ''[[Alternators]]'' toyline, where every item is a 1:24-scale representation of a real type of car.

However, this does not mean that the chronic scale problems of ''Transformers'' do not merit description.

== Types of scale problems ==
=== Scale within toylines ===
As it generally well known, the [[Generation 1 (toyline)|Generation 1 toyline]], especially the entire pre-[[Transformers: The Movie|Movie]] lines, were created from repackaged and [[redeco]]ed toys from several different Japanese transforming toylines. The crucial point being that they came from ''different'' toylines. All characters (well, virtually all; see below) ''should'' be in correct scale to each other as they all are supposed to represent real-world altmodes that can pass for correctly-scaled vehicles etc. However, since the ''[[Diaclone]]'' toys were not designed to be part of the same line as [[Microman]] toys, scale issue arise. While Diaclone figures such as [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]], [[Prowl (G1)|Prowl]] and [[Hound (G1)|Hound]] are more-or-less in correct scale to each other, many of the [[Mini Vehicle]]s from the Microman line are clearly far too small by comparison. Even aside from the deformed [[penny-racer]] style proportions, even a comparatively small car such as a [[Bumblebee (G1)|volkswagon]] is dispropotionately tiny when compared to a [[Jazz (G1)|Porsch]] that should be in the same scale. The disparity becomes all the more obvious with other [[minibot]]s such as [[Warpath]] and [[Seaspray]] whose [[altmode]]s would suggest that they should be many times their actual size.

Another glaring scale problem comes in the form of the [[Seeker]]s, who turn into F-15 Eagles which, in real life, are 63.8 ft (19.44 m) long. Clearly not in scale with the Autobot cars then...

Other scale problems come from charcters who transform into the same (or very similar) altforms but whose toys are very different sizes. For example [[Air Raid (G1)|Air Raid]] transforms into and F-15 Eagle, but his toy is half the size of [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]]'s. In reality they should be an identical size (in fact, [[Silverbolt (G1)|Silverbolt]], transforming into a Concorde passanger jet should in fact be one of the largest G1 Transformers with an Earth altmode). The same can be said for [[Breakdown]], who, having a Lambourghini Countach altmode, should be in scale with [[Sunstreaker]]. This also goes for the other [[Stunticon]]s and all the Special Teams/[[Scramble City]]-type combiners with Earth-based altmodes, whose toys are all out of scale to earlier waves. By the same token, Warpath should be roughly the same size as [[Blitzwing]].

Also, from an in-universe logic perspective, the characters with role-play altmodes such as [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]], [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]], [[Perceptor]] or [[Laserbeak (Armada)|Armada Laserbeak]] are scaled to be human(well, kid)-scale. Although [[size changing]] is obviously not possible for real toys (or at least, that's what [[Takara]] ''wants'' us to think...), this human-scaling makes in some cases for inordinately large robot modes, e.g. [[Blaster]].

=== Scale within shows ===
Scale issues abound within cartoon fictions, especially the [[Generation 1 (cartoon)|G1 cartoon]]. A lot can be attributed to animation errors, or even "lazy animation". [[Size changing]] is rarely depicted onscreen outside of characters such as [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] and [[Blaster (G1)|Blaster]], but is rather implied (or, one could argue in many cases, inferred) in the following method: character such as [[Astrotrain (G1)|Astrotrain]] transforms in-frame from robot to shuttle with no visible expansion of size relative to his surroundings. Cut. In the following shot his fellow Decepticons are shown running into frame, suddenly tiny in stature so that they can board the shuttle. Although Astrotrain has not been shown to actually grow (in the was Megatron is usually seen to perceptibly shrink in-shot), one inferrs that it is more likely that Astrotrain has expanded rather than all his confederates have individually shrunk. The same goes for [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]] and other "transport" characters.

Some scale problems apprear to be arbitrary, for example Optimus Prime (and, indeed, most Transformers in general) is routinely shown as being throughly gargantuan, equal to several stories in hight and capable of cradling humans in the palm of one hand. In reality, Prime would probably be less than 20 feet tall. Conversely, [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]] is sometimes shown as being only a few feet taller than an average human, where in reality he would be around 10 feet tall. And those pesky [[Seeker]]s remain a walking scale problem; in reality they would be amongst the largest Transformers of all and would ''tower'' over their Autobot adversaries, whereas the animation generally depicts character such as [[Thundercracker (G1)|Thundercracker]] and [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] as being approximately the same hight.

[[Combiner]] characters are often depicted as far larger than the sum of their parts. Characters such as [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]] and [[Menasor (G1)|Menasor]] are frequently shown being as tall as large buildings, sometimes even the size of small skyscrapers. When one thinks that their individual limbs are comprised of cars and construction vehicles, this becomes patently absurd. [[Superion (G1)|Superion]], however, actually ''would'' be fairly massive, if one considers the much larger real-world size of his component parts.

In most cases, the [[Generation 1 (cartoon)|G1 cartoon]] adopts approximations of the toy scale (with all its inherent problems) when depicting the characters in robot modes; Prime, Megatron and Soundwave are generally animated at the same height, Seekers and Autobot cars slightly shorter (although not ''as'' much shorter and unevenly so as the actual toys are), and [[Minibot]]s are given a smaller stature again. However, these depictions were ''far'' from consistent.

Some fans interpret these discrepancies to also be the result of [[size changing]], but this is debatable. If virtually all characters used mass-shifting (or whatever) to gain or drop just a few feet for no apparent reason (other than to make the animation more plausible), the technology would seem pointlessly mundane. Furthermore there is no strong evidence in the series to indicate that size changing truly is so widespread as opposed to the animation having a particular style to it that favours emphasising the hugeness of the Cybertronians.

=== Show scale vs. toy scale ===

Some characters have great discrpancies between their cartoon scale and their toy scale. "Giant" characters such as [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]] are, even aside from any [[size changing]] for transport purposes, clearly not in the same scale in toy form as they are depicted onscreen. [[Mini-Cassettes|Cassette characters]] such as [[Rumble (G1)|Rumble]]'s toys are roughly the same height as most [[minibot]]s, while in the show they are usually portrayed as human-sized (which is odd, considering that Soundwave is capable of expanding to massive size).

[[Hot Rod|Rodimus Prime]] and [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] are usually shown to be of a fairly similar hight (although Magnus is much bulkier), whereas there is a considerable difference between the size of their toys. By the same token, Rodimus is always depicted as being an equal stature to his opposing leader [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]], whereas the toy Galvatron is instead the same size as Magnus.

[[Metroplex (Cybertron)|Cybertron Metroplex]] is depicted as garganuan in animation, whereas his toy is merely Leader-Class (although the Japanese [[Galaxy Force]] release, dubbled "Megalo Convoy", included an exclusive [[redeco]] of the [[Heroes of Cybertron]] [[Optimus Prime (Armada)|(Cybertron) Optimus Prime]] to indicate the "correct" scale.

=== Citybots ===
[[Image:EarlyGalvatronTVMagazine1.jpg|left|250px|thumb|Okay, if you were ever ''this'' big in the cartoon, THEN we might be able to call you a city.]]

The characters [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]], [[Trypticon]], [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]] and [[Scorponok (G1)|Scorponok]] each have altmodes which are described as a "city". However, the scale at which they could plausibly house enough humans, ''let alone'' Transformers to be in any way reasonably defined as a "city" would suggest a robot-mode scale that would make [[Hojoni|Godzilla]] look like a gecko. No fiction to date, not even the ''very'' large depictions in the Japanese ''[[Headmasters (television series)|Headmasters]]'' cartoon, even begins to approximate the size that a true "citybot" would logically become. In reality, the grossly-undersized depiction of [[Unicron]] (see below) would probably be closer to the scale of an actual transformed city. Which is ironic, as in Season 3 of the [[Generation 1 (television series)|G1 cartoon]] Unicron requires citybot eyes to replace his own shattered ones. That's right, citybot eyes fit a ''planet''bot. Explain that one...

Rare examples which even suggest such a realistic city scale include occasional Japanese promotional art.

Furthermore, there is virually no way to reconcile the "city" altmodes of the actual toys with any believable use of the term. Using windows as even a vague scale, they would hardly qualify as a city ''block''. The cartoon episode ''[[Thief in the Night]]'' makes some headway in explaining this via an establishing shot that shows Metroplex to be only a small smaller sub-section of the "actual" Autobot City, although this was not repeated.

Although little fiction to date has significantly featured the Headmaster leaders fulfilling their "city" roles, they have in the Japanese-exclusive cartoons been employed in their tertiary modes as massive starships capable of transporting and housing many normal-sized transformers. Conversely, the Marvel [[Generation 1 (comic)|G1 comic]] depicted Fort Max and Scorpy as merely "large-standard" size characters, of an equal height to Powermaster Optimus Prime and, in some UK issues, even the same as Rodimus Prime (to be fair, Powermaster Prime was often drawn "undersized" in the comics).

=== Planets ===
Scale when it comes to planets is almost so frought it's actively painful. The logic problems of describing citybots as "cities" is a thousand times worse if [[Unicron]] is supposed to have a planet-sized altmode, and that Cybertron is supposed to in turn be in scale with him. Although different fictions have compared both [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]/[[Primus]] and Unicron to drastically different Sol-system planets, the fact remains that they are supposed to be ''planets'', and yet across most fictions they are shown in insane scale to characters that would suggest they are barely the size of a very, very small moon.

[[Image:Unicronplanet.jpg|left|thumb|I'm ''how'' big?!]]

To start with, [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] itself was depicted throughout G1 as having buildings visible from space. Although this was clearly intended to make it immediately obvious that the planet was entirely technological in nature, it actually makes no sense whatsoever, as such structures would have to be the size of small continents to actually be visible from such a distance. If the buildings were in fact supposed to be Transformers-scale skyscrapers (or even 2000 A.D. style mega-bocks), Cybertron would therefore be barely a fraction the size of Earth's [[Moon (moon)|Moon]]. By comparision, the rather Coruscant-like orbit-views of Cybertron in the ''[[Beast Machines (television series)|Beast Machines]]'' cartoon may be less distinctive or recognisably "Cybertronian", but is ''far'' more believable.

[[Image:Cybertronplanet.jpg|right|thumb|Those are some pretty big buildings...]]

Unicron, however, is a much more extreme problem. If one presumes that no obvious [[size changing]] occurs during His transfomration (and really, why would he want to become ''smaller''?), He would be so massive that any shot that features even a ''part'' of his body, let alone the whole thing, whould be of such a scale that no no normal Transformer, however massive, would even be visible. His depiction in the ''[[The Transformers: The Movie (1986)|The Transformers: The Movie]]'' in which he directly interacts with cybertronian characters is blatantly absurd (regardless of how totally phat it looks). Shots such as the [[Dinobot]]s fleeing his grasping hand, a starship penetrating his eye or ''especially'' picking up Galvatron between his thumb and forefinger before swallowing him (or, similarly in the comic, impaling [[Brainstorm (G1)|Brainstorm]] on his fingernail before crunching him between his teeth) bend any concept of scale beyond breaking point. If Unicron is the size of a planet, his hands would be the size of continents. This would make Galvatron the size of Great Britain.

There is no possible explanation for any of this. Just go with it.

=== ''Beast Era'' scale ===

In the ''[[Beast Era]]'' scale is not such a large issue, although it certainly does crop up in less obvious (depending on your point of view) ways.

==== Real world scale ====
Although the Beast Warriors all seem to exist quite happily in their own relative scale, their scale in relation to the real-world animals they have adopted as [[altmode]]s is more problematic. While the "giant insect" characters such as [[Waspinator]] and [[Inferno (BW)|Inferno]] are obviously not in real world scale, when considered carefully virtually none of the charactes actually are. The only character who has been clearly depicted interacting with real members of his adopted species is [[Cheetor (BW)|Cheetor]], who is seen attempting interact with other cheetahs in ''[[Beast Wars, Part 1]]'', who react in fright. Cheetor was shown here to be in the same scale as real cheetahs, which effectively makes him the measuring stick for all other charcters. [[Rattrap]] is therefore obviously a monstrously huge rat, about the size of a large dog, [[Rhinox (BW)|Rhinox]] is a rather small rhinoceros, and [[Optimus Primal]] is probably a roughly normal-sized gorilla. However, [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]] is therefore an positively dwarfish specimen of a ''tyrannosaurs rex''.

In their few interactions with (adult) protohumans, the Cybertronian characters seem between twice and three times the average height of humans. This does not entirely make sense if one considers that a cheetah (essentially) standing on its hind legs would not be much different in hight to a modern man. Whether this is to imply that protohumans in the BW universe were much smaller than modern-day humans (or real neanderthals for that matter), or that prehistoric cheetahs were much larger than modern cheetahs is a matter of personal taste. Or you could just say Mainframe stuffed up a little.

==== Scale relative to G1 ====
[[Size changing]] appears to be a thing of the past by the Beast Era, as the majority of the Cybertronian race seems to have considerably downgraded in size, apparently due to the [[Maximal Uprgrade]] Program (although this is of course a backwards rationalisation, since the show's basic premise requires the characters to transform into (vaguely) normal-sized animals, compared to the G1 characters transforming into large vehicles etc.). When entering the [[Ark (G1)|Ark]], the Beast Warriors are very small compared to the sleeping G1 characters, especially [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]. They are roughly the size humans should be (but usually weren't) depicted in relation to these characters.

==== Toy scale vs. cartoon scale ====
The first waves of ''[[Beast Wars (toyline)|Beast Wars]]'' figures were not made in the same relative scale to each other as depicted in the cartoon, although from Season 2 onwards the scales (and general toy-accuracy) of the cartoon became much more consistent with the toys.

For example, of the Season 1 Maximal crew, [[Dinobot (BW)|Dinobot]], Cheetor, [[Tigatron (BW)|Tigatron]] and Rhinox are all from the same deluxe [[size class]], while [[Airazor (BW)|Airazor]] and Rattrap are considerably smaller basics. Optimus Primal, an ultra, stands at virtually twice the size of the deluxes. In the show, Dinobot is the tallest, followed by Rhinox and a slightly shorter Optimus Primal, shorter again is Tigatron, while shorter still is Cheetor (despite being an identical mold) and Airazor, while Rattrap is the shortest, but by no means to such a degree as his toy would suggest.

The ''[[Beast Machines (toyline)|Beast Machines]]''' toyline was far worse in terms of scale discrepancies with its cartoon, with the tallest character [[Silverbolt (Fuzor)|Silverbolt]] becoming the shortest (show-featured) Maximal toy, and similarly the massive [[Tankor (BM)|Tankor]] was reduced to a tiny basic-class (well, in Japan anyway, but the Tank Drones that his BWR toy was redecoed from were supposed to be the same size anyway). And, sadly, the most show-accurate toy in the line (well, ''sorta'' in the line...) "Air Attack [[Optimus Primal]]" was rendered as an enormous supreme figure, completely incompatible with the other toys.

{{stub}}
[[Category:Planets]]
[[Category: Technology]]
[[Category: Things that don't exist]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Main Page

2007-03-11T16:20:25Z

24.126.139.103: /* General informalness */

==Older discussion==
This front page needs to be redesigned to be more useful.

One problem is that it claims to have a list of categories, but it's actually a list of pages that list other pages. "Categories" have a special meaning in MediaWiki related to adding category tags at the bottom of an article. The main page's link to a "complete category list" is the real category list, as understood by the wiki's database. The lists... need to be called something else.

I do think it's useful to have links on the front page linking to lists of toylines, TV shows, comic series/publishers, etc.. It just needs to be presented differently. I don't at the moment have a good idea for how to do it, though.

--[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 07:55, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Reverted, because our Wiki is not >Beeping< stupid.

I propose a site name change to 'The Witwicky Transformers Wikipedia'.

"Just check the Witwicky!" And we could laugh at our pun, EVERY TIME. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 11:43, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I '''hate''' the image above the Search field. I '''especially''' hate that clicking on it does nto direct me to, say, the advanced search page, but instead the front page. But '''mostly''' I think it fits horribly witht he page, and my eye 'trips' over it and has to re-orient itself every time i go over to click int he search field. "Uh, okay, right, gotta be sure not to click on that."

I just find it... '''unfriendly.''' Other opinions? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 12:55, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Basically like the main page revision. But, aren't "Universe" and "Timelines" intended to be the same continuity?--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 23:53, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

:I have no idea. If they are, feel free to remove one of them, but I've never followed either of the comics, so I wouldn't know. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 00:16, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

::Sort of? Timelines is basically a spin of of Universe in... another Universe. It'll probably be easier to keep it its own continuity for clarity's sake. - [[User:Vanguard|Vanguard]]

:::If Timelines is the continuity of the club comic (not actually a given), don't the events of that series, which now have been linked to the events of the Universe comic, put them together? The fact that Prime and Magnus have been explicitly pulled from one group to another shouldn't make too much difference here, since both are explicitly continuity-hopping continuities. (uhh, yeah.)--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 18:26, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
::::I've always disagreed with Steve's take on the [[Continuities]] page that the fan club comic is a Timelines story. As has been said, Timelines is just a sequence of unrelated story branch-offs, and the fan club comic takes place in the Cybertron cartoon universe. (It's LABELLED a Cybertron story, not Timelines, so that much should be obvious.) Timelines is definitely its own thing. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:18, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

:::In any event, if we're talking "for clarity's sake," I find it clearer to have ''fewer'' titles to follow, rather than more. Perhaps you see it differently.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 18:27, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

::There also IS a legal issue involved as well, but I'm not sure on the details involved. I suppose it doesn't matter too much, and maybe we should treat Timelines as a sequel to Universe? - [[User:Vanguard|Vanguard]]

Timelines and Universe are unrelated. Universe refers to a very specific cross-multiverse battle between agents of Primus and Unicron in direct confrontation. Timelines is just off-continuity one-shot stories with vague connections (if any) to whatever jumping-off point they feel like. 2006's "Timelines" entry may very well have no relation to 2005's whatsoever, or 2007... as such, they should remain separate. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 21:08, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

A possible cause for confusion may be that the fan club comic appears to share continuity with the Universe story. However, the fan club comic is, strangely, not "Transformers Timelines" but is simply called "Transformers Cybertron". So far the only Timelines story is what we got at BotCon 2005. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 21:28, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
:I expect that we'll see that "Timelines" is the line they release the next "freebie" under when it finally arrives. Time will tell on that. For the moment, you're quite right. I'm still not sure I agree with M Sipher above, but it seems clear that I'm outvoted. So be it.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 00:26, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

The info that Timelines is intended to be a series of unconnected, standalone tales comes from conversations with Ben Yee and Karl Hartman. They, like Legends, are all basically "what if" stories. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 02:03, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

If Timelines is just going to be a bunch of random stories without regard to continuity, then it sounds like it probably wouldn't be too appropriate to have it listed under Continuities on the main page. Since, uh, there isn't any continuity. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 03:12, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Anyone else think it'd be cool to have a different page for each figure? [[User:Doogles|Doogles]] 19:07, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
: It's called tfu.info. :) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:08, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
::Sho'nuff is. Shows what I know :( [[User:Doogles|Doogles]] 00:51, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

== Plain dumb ==

I like this site but the comments bellow the pictures (such as megatron) are foolish comments that do not meke any sence i am just about ready to go on a masive cleaning spree whiping out your comments and placing text there that is USEFULL duh!!!!!!!!!! god if a new commer saw you comment on one of megatron's they wouldent know what you where talking about CHANGE IT pleese

Sory for the spelling

:This wiki isn't meant to be 100% serious and neutral like the Wikipedia and almost every other wiki there is. We allow for humour in the biographies, captions and sometimes the body of the article itself. We also sometimes write from the perspective of the character, for humour.
:Because if there's one thing Transformers fans do, its that they take their Transformers too seriously. So please don't go around editing the articles unless you are contributing, thanks. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 09:05, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

: If by "usefull" (sic) you mean "boring and horrendously, pointlessly redundant text of zero value to anyone", sure. And if a "new commer" (sic) is somehow confused by a caption under a picture of a Megatron to the point of not being able to ''look at the rest of all the information on the screen and the title of the page'' to determine which one this was, then frankly, how the hell did they even turn on the computer without inadvertently killing themselves? (And besides... Lucas' website-gurus luvvy-luv our wiki and its humor.) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:48, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

you are all fools!!!!!!!!!!!!!! a wiki is a place for finding info not for finding stupid hummor
::Quick, find this guy a spelling wiki!
: Well, for one, you can find ''tons'' of information here. I don't see where having humor removes the information. Show me an actual example of failure to find information because of the existence of a piece of humor in place of "THIS IS A PICTURE OF GENERATION 1 MEGATRON", which, when seen on a Generation 1 Megatron page with accompanying text talking about Generation 1 Megatron, evokes the response "well no shit" from anyone with two neurons to run a spark between.
: And for two, I wasn't aware that there was some Officially Mandated Standard on what can and can't be done on a wiki. Where, ''exactly'', is it said that all wiki everywhere cannot have jokes?
: And for three, maybe before you start accusing people of being "fools", you might want to look into proper spelling, capitalization, punctuation and sentence structure. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:04, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
: A wiki is a place for literacy, friend. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 01:06, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
:: If one honestly thinks a hobby about toys should be taken seriously, one might consider rethinking their priorities. Plus, the humor at least keeps me (and likely most others) entertained while sifting through loads of info when checking for pages that need additions.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 01:41, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
:A wiki is a place for articles that are more than two lines long, have punctuation and capitalization, and were written by someone who can spell "penalty." In other words, not [http://transformers.wikia.com/index.php?title=Smelting_pool&oldid=55506 yours.] --[[User:Andrusi|Andrusi]] 03:21, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

::Please fix the errors if you find any and improve this wiki rather than attacking the people working hard on creating new content here. [[w:User:Angela|Angela]] <sup>[[User talk:Angela|talk]]</sup> 19:26, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
:::My point was that he ''isn't'' working hard on creating new content here, he's just putting up lazy sub-stubs, editing out caption jokes and such, and then calling everyone "fools" for our "stupid hummor." --[[User:Andrusi|Andrusi]] 00:19, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
::::My reply was meant for the person suggestion the wiki had "foolish comments" since he could fix this instead of complaining here about it. It wasn't meant as a reply to you since I agree with what you wrote. Sorry for the confusion. [[w:User:Angela|Angela]] <sup>[[User talk:Angela|talk]]</sup> 18:37, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
:::::I vote that if this anonymous poster, who I shall call "Leader-1", elects to follow through on his badly-spelled threat, that we leave at least one of his captions or contributions for posterity, if it follows the same pattern as the rant above...--[[User:Autobus Prime|Autobus Prime]] 18:57, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

==Magyar TF Wiki==
Is there some reason we shouldn't have a link to this? It's pretty unobtrusive, and (not that I read Magyar) the target appears to be a legitimate resource. Albeit one maintained entirely by HardStuff. -[[User:LV|LV]] 18:08, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

:I think it should stay. As I said on [[User talk:Steve-o]] earlier today, this sort of link is an [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Interlanguage links|Interlanguage link]], one which points to the same article on another language version of the same wiki. In this case, the link was pointing to the new [http://hu.transformers.wikia.com Hungarian Transformers Wikia]. The link appears in the left sidebar in the "other languages" section and is the easiest way for people to find this content in their own language. If you look at Wikipedia, you'll see this is used on many articles to link to the same topic in a different language. [[w:User:Angela|Angela]] <sup>[[User talk:Angela|talk]]</sup> 19:28, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

== General informalness ==

I don't get it. What's with all the lame picture captions and lazy informal writing?

*Picture caption jokes are one of the fun traditions of this wiki and are not to be replaced by anything except even funnier picture captions. The informal writing style is just how we do things here. As long as the information is acurate there's no reason to be boring about it. Toys are meant to be fun. :)

Most of the time, though, the writing style is ''fairly'' formal if the article is properly written. If it's just a quick summary thrown in to fill space in lieu of a more detailed write-up that'll be done some time in the future, yeah... shockingly enough, we like to have a bit of ''fun'' when we're writing about the giant robot aliens with lasers. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 15:50, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

90% of the time picture captions aren't needed. "A picture of Slugslinger." Well DUH, it's the main picture on Slugslinger's article. Jokes became acceptable to fill that space- they're often puns on character names, or in-jokes about their appearances, but often not.<br/>
When a descriptive caption is actually ''needed'', it should not be removed.

As for ''informal''... articles tend to get more refined and serious as they get older and more complete (Well, except Wheelie's.) The informal gets smoothed out of 'em. So I guess our answer is- "You're judging tadpoles like they're frogs." -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:09, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Also, see the above discussion. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 23:40, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

::Seriously, I'm pretty tired of people coming and posting WHY IS THIS WIKI SO DUMB AND INFORMAL AND NOT-ENCYCLOPEDIA-ENOUGH????, '''''especially''''' when we had a discussion about the exact same topic ON THIS VERY PAGE, LESS THAN A MONTH AGO. If you want a wiki that's all encyclopedantic and serious and crap, go freakin' start one. This isn't rocket science, it's the damn internet. -hx (also, seriously, Walky, way to be a giant Wikipedia Admin about things.)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Main Page

2007-03-10T17:40:59Z

24.126.139.103: /* General informalness */

This front page needs to be redesigned to be more useful.

One problem is that it claims to have a list of categories, but it's actually a list of pages that list other pages. "Categories" have a special meaning in MediaWiki related to adding category tags at the bottom of an article. The main page's link to a "complete category list" is the real category list, as understood by the wiki's database. The lists... need to be called something else.

I do think it's useful to have links on the front page linking to lists of toylines, TV shows, comic series/publishers, etc.. It just needs to be presented differently. I don't at the moment have a good idea for how to do it, though.

--[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 07:55, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Reverted, because our Wiki is not >Beeping< stupid.

I propose a site name change to 'The Witwicky Transformers Wikipedia'.

"Just check the Witwicky!" And we could laugh at our pun, EVERY TIME. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 11:43, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I '''hate''' the image above the Search field. I '''especially''' hate that clicking on it does nto direct me to, say, the advanced search page, but instead the front page. But '''mostly''' I think it fits horribly witht he page, and my eye 'trips' over it and has to re-orient itself every time i go over to click int he search field. "Uh, okay, right, gotta be sure not to click on that."

I just find it... '''unfriendly.''' Other opinions? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 12:55, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Basically like the main page revision. But, aren't "Universe" and "Timelines" intended to be the same continuity?--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 23:53, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

:I have no idea. If they are, feel free to remove one of them, but I've never followed either of the comics, so I wouldn't know. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 00:16, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

::Sort of? Timelines is basically a spin of of Universe in... another Universe. It'll probably be easier to keep it its own continuity for clarity's sake. - [[User:Vanguard|Vanguard]]

:::If Timelines is the continuity of the club comic (not actually a given), don't the events of that series, which now have been linked to the events of the Universe comic, put them together? The fact that Prime and Magnus have been explicitly pulled from one group to another shouldn't make too much difference here, since both are explicitly continuity-hopping continuities. (uhh, yeah.)--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 18:26, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
::::I've always disagreed with Steve's take on the [[Continuities]] page that the fan club comic is a Timelines story. As has been said, Timelines is just a sequence of unrelated story branch-offs, and the fan club comic takes place in the Cybertron cartoon universe. (It's LABELLED a Cybertron story, not Timelines, so that much should be obvious.) Timelines is definitely its own thing. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:18, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

:::In any event, if we're talking "for clarity's sake," I find it clearer to have ''fewer'' titles to follow, rather than more. Perhaps you see it differently.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 18:27, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

::There also IS a legal issue involved as well, but I'm not sure on the details involved. I suppose it doesn't matter too much, and maybe we should treat Timelines as a sequel to Universe? - [[User:Vanguard|Vanguard]]

Timelines and Universe are unrelated. Universe refers to a very specific cross-multiverse battle between agents of Primus and Unicron in direct confrontation. Timelines is just off-continuity one-shot stories with vague connections (if any) to whatever jumping-off point they feel like. 2006's "Timelines" entry may very well have no relation to 2005's whatsoever, or 2007... as such, they should remain separate. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 21:08, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

A possible cause for confusion may be that the fan club comic appears to share continuity with the Universe story. However, the fan club comic is, strangely, not "Transformers Timelines" but is simply called "Transformers Cybertron". So far the only Timelines story is what we got at BotCon 2005. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 21:28, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
:I expect that we'll see that "Timelines" is the line they release the next "freebie" under when it finally arrives. Time will tell on that. For the moment, you're quite right. I'm still not sure I agree with M Sipher above, but it seems clear that I'm outvoted. So be it.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 00:26, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

The info that Timelines is intended to be a series of unconnected, standalone tales comes from conversations with Ben Yee and Karl Hartman. They, like Legends, are all basically "what if" stories. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 02:03, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

If Timelines is just going to be a bunch of random stories without regard to continuity, then it sounds like it probably wouldn't be too appropriate to have it listed under Continuities on the main page. Since, uh, there isn't any continuity. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 03:12, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Anyone else think it'd be cool to have a different page for each figure? [[User:Doogles|Doogles]] 19:07, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
: It's called tfu.info. :) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:08, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
::Sho'nuff is. Shows what I know :( [[User:Doogles|Doogles]] 00:51, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

== Plain dumb ==

I like this site but the comments bellow the pictures (such as megatron) are foolish comments that do not meke any sence i am just about ready to go on a masive cleaning spree whiping out your comments and placing text there that is USEFULL duh!!!!!!!!!! god if a new commer saw you comment on one of megatron's they wouldent know what you where talking about CHANGE IT pleese

Sory for the spelling

:This wiki isn't meant to be 100% serious and neutral like the Wikipedia and almost every other wiki there is. We allow for humour in the biographies, captions and sometimes the body of the article itself. We also sometimes write from the perspective of the character, for humour.
:Because if there's one thing Transformers fans do, its that they take their Transformers too seriously. So please don't go around editing the articles unless you are contributing, thanks. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 09:05, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

: If by "usefull" (sic) you mean "boring and horrendously, pointlessly redundant text of zero value to anyone", sure. And if a "new commer" (sic) is somehow confused by a caption under a picture of a Megatron to the point of not being able to ''look at the rest of all the information on the screen and the title of the page'' to determine which one this was, then frankly, how the hell did they even turn on the computer without inadvertently killing themselves? (And besides... Lucas' website-gurus luvvy-luv our wiki and its humor.) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:48, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

you are all fools!!!!!!!!!!!!!! a wiki is a place for finding info not for finding stupid hummor
::Quick, find this guy a spelling wiki!
: Well, for one, you can find ''tons'' of information here. I don't see where having humor removes the information. Show me an actual example of failure to find information because of the existence of a piece of humor in place of "THIS IS A PICTURE OF GENERATION 1 MEGATRON", which, when seen on a Generation 1 Megatron page with accompanying text talking about Generation 1 Megatron, evokes the response "well no shit" from anyone with two neurons to run a spark between.
: And for two, I wasn't aware that there was some Officially Mandated Standard on what can and can't be done on a wiki. Where, ''exactly'', is it said that all wiki everywhere cannot have jokes?
: And for three, maybe before you start accusing people of being "fools", you might want to look into proper spelling, capitalization, punctuation and sentence structure. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:04, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
: A wiki is a place for literacy, friend. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 01:06, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
:: If one honestly thinks a hobby about toys should be taken seriously, one might consider rethinking their priorities. Plus, the humor at least keeps me (and likely most others) entertained while sifting through loads of info when checking for pages that need additions.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 01:41, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
:A wiki is a place for articles that are more than two lines long, have punctuation and capitalization, and were written by someone who can spell "penalty." In other words, not [http://transformers.wikia.com/index.php?title=Smelting_pool&oldid=55506 yours.] --[[User:Andrusi|Andrusi]] 03:21, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

::Please fix the errors if you find any and improve this wiki rather than attacking the people working hard on creating new content here. [[w:User:Angela|Angela]] <sup>[[User talk:Angela|talk]]</sup> 19:26, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
:::My point was that he ''isn't'' working hard on creating new content here, he's just putting up lazy sub-stubs, editing out caption jokes and such, and then calling everyone "fools" for our "stupid hummor." --[[User:Andrusi|Andrusi]] 00:19, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
::::My reply was meant for the person suggestion the wiki had "foolish comments" since he could fix this instead of complaining here about it. It wasn't meant as a reply to you since I agree with what you wrote. Sorry for the confusion. [[w:User:Angela|Angela]] <sup>[[User talk:Angela|talk]]</sup> 18:37, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
:::::I vote that if this anonymous poster, who I shall call "Leader-1", elects to follow through on his badly-spelled threat, that we leave at least one of his captions or contributions for posterity, if it follows the same pattern as the rant above...--[[User:Autobus Prime|Autobus Prime]] 18:57, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

===Magyar TF Wiki===
Is there some reason we shouldn't have a link to this? It's pretty unobtrusive, and (not that I read Magyar) the target appears to be a legitimate resource. Albeit one maintained entirely by HardStuff. -[[User:LV|LV]] 18:08, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

:I think it should stay. As I said on [[User talk:Steve-o]] earlier today, this sort of link is an [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Interlanguage links|Interlanguage link]], one which points to the same article on another language version of the same wiki. In this case, the link was pointing to the new [http://hu.transformers.wikia.com Hungarian Transformers Wikia]. The link appears in the left sidebar in the "other languages" section and is the easiest way for people to find this content in their own language. If you look at Wikipedia, you'll see this is used on many articles to link to the same topic in a different language. [[w:User:Angela|Angela]] <sup>[[User talk:Angela|talk]]</sup> 19:28, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

== General informalness ==

I don't get it. What's with all the lame picture captions and lazy informal writing?

*Picture caption jokes are one of the fun traditions of this wiki and are not to be replaced by anything except even funnier picture captions. The informal writing style is just how we do things here. As long as the information is acurate there's no reason to be boring about it. Toys are meant to be fun. :)

Most of the time, though, the writing style is ''fairly'' formal if the article is properly written. If it's just a quick summary thrown in to fill space in lieu of a more detailed write-up that'll be done some time in the future, yeah... shockingly enough, we like to have a bit of ''fun'' when we're writing about the giant robot aliens with lasers. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 15:50, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

:Fuck you, asshole. Not everything has to be a goddamn encyclopedia britannica of boring fucking boringness. If you don't like it, fuck the fuck off. -hx<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Joe Colton

2007-03-10T17:38:25Z

24.126.139.103:

:''Joseph Colton is a member of [[Adventure Team (G.I. Joe)|Adventure Team]] and [[G.I. Joe]] from the [[Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''
[[Image:Joe colton.jpg|thumb|250px|Joe Colton doesn't sleep, he waits.]]
'''Joe Colton''' uses his uncanny resemblance to [[Wikipedia:Chuck Norris|Chuck Norris]] to benefit mankind.

==Fiction==
===DDP GI Joe vs. the Transformers continuity===

==External links==
* [http://www.yojoe.com/action/94/gijoe.shtml Joseph Colton on YoJoe.com]

{{stub}}
[[Category: Comic-only characters|Colton, Joseph]]
[[Category: Generation 1 characters|Colton, Joseph]]
[[Category: G.I. Joe|Colton, Joseph]]
[[Category: Martial artists|Colton, Joseph]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>