Scale

2008-04-02T02:20:52Z

59.167.66.184: /* An exception: The 2007 Transformers movie */ grammar.

[[Image:OptimusSnakeEyes.jpg|right|thumb|300px|And the truck's ''how'' big...?]]
'''Scale''' in ''Transformers'' is, not to put too fine a point on it, screwed.

Virtually no era, franchise, fiction, [[toy|toyline]] or other incarnation of ''Transformers'' has presented scale in a logical or believable fashion. (The only exceptions are the 1:24 toys for ''[[Alternators]]'' and ''[[Kiss Players (toyline)|Kiss Players]]'', but they [[Atari Hitotonari|have their own problems]].) Most fans agree that one must either ignore it or accept it, lest they be tempted to explain these problems and in the process fanwank themselves into oblivion.

However, the scale problems of ''Transformers'' still merit description.

==Scale within toylines==
===Toys out of scale with others in the same line===
The early [[Generation 1 (toyline)|Generation 1 toyline]], especially the pre-[[The Transformers: The Movie|movie]] lines, were repackaged and [[redeco]]ed toys from several different Japanese toylines. The crucial point is that the toylines were initially unrelated. The characters ''should'' be in scale to each other as they all have real-world altmodes that (should) pass for real vehicles. However, since ''[[Diaclone]]'' toys were not part of the same line as ''[[Microman]]'' toys, scale issues arose. ''Diaclone'' figures such as [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]], [[Prowl (G1)|Prowl]] and [[Hound (G1)|Hound]] are more-or-less in correct scale to each other, but many of the [[Mini Vehicle]]s from the ''New Microman'' line are clearly far too small by comparison. Even aside from their deformed penny-racer proportions, a [[Bumblebee (G1)|Volkswagen]] Microman toy is disproportionately tiny when compared to a [[Jazz (G1)|Porsche]] Diaclone toy. The disparity becomes even more obvious with [[minibot]]s such as [[Warpath]] (a tank) and [[Seaspray]] (a hovercraft) who should be many times their actual size.

[[Image:DiacloneScale.jpg|left|thumb|350px|That little guy — who comes from the same toyline as all those vehicles — is supposed to be a normal-sized human. Yeeeah.]]

Another glaring scale problem comes in the form of the [[Seeker]]s, who turn into F-15 Eagles which, in real life, are 63.8′ (19.4m) long. Correctly scaled, this would make their robot modes ''colossal'' compared to most Autobots. Similarly, the [[Constructicon (G1)|Constructicon]]s, despite also coming from the ''Diaclone'' line, are too small. Far worse is the other ''Diaclone'' combiner team, the [[Trainbot]]s, who have train engine altmodes, yet their toys are among the ''smallest'' of the ''Diaclone'' releases.

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===Toys out of scale within teams===
Even toys specifically designed to interact with each other suffer from this problem. The [[Combaticon]]s are wildly out of scale to each other — [[Blast Off]]'s space shuttle mode should dwarf [[Swindle (G1)|Swindle]], with the others somewhere in between. Instead, they're about the same size. Among the Constructicons, [[Long Haul (G1)|Long Haul]] is designed to look like a gigantic [[Wikipedia:Image:Liebherr_t282_1.jpg|"earth-mover" mining truck]].He should be able to carry all his teammates in his bed, with some crowding. Similarly, [[Silverbolt (G1)|Silverbolt]] (a Concorde jet) is dramatically undersized compared to his fighter-jet [[Aerialbot (G1)|Aerialbot]] teammates. These scale problems are necessary to avoid misproportioned gestalt forms.

===Same altmode, different sizes===
Other scale problems come from characters who transform into the same (or similar) altmodes but whose toys are different sizes. For example [[Air Raid (G1)|Air Raid]] transforms into an F-15 Eagle, but his toy is half the size of [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]]'s. The same can be said for the Lamborghini Countach [[Breakdown]], who should be the same size as [[Sunstreaker]], not significantly smaller. These discrepancies are also seen in the other [[Scramble City]] combiners with Earth altmodes, whose toys are all smaller than similar earlier toys.

===Toys out of scale with themselves===
[[Triple Changer|Triple-Changers]] create a whole new set of problems. [[Octane]] transforms from a 60′ (20m) tanker truck into a 200′ (65m) jumbo jet. [[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]] transforms from an Earth jet into an entire ''aircraft carrier.''

Even a two-mode toy can have this problem. Twentieth Anniversary Optimus Prime has wheels which are pretty tiny for a Freightliner truck, while his rear hitch section is too thick. These out-of-proportion vehicle parts were necessary to give his robot mode [[show-accuracy|show-accurate]] proportions.

===Toys with roleplay altmodes===
The characters with roleplay altmodes such as Generation 1 [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]], [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]], [[Perceptor (G1)|Perceptor]], or [[Laserbeak (Armada)|''Armada'' Laserbeak]] are scaled to be human-scale (well, kid-scale). Since the [[size changing]] seen in the fiction is not possible for real toys (at least, that's what [[Takara]] ''wants'' us to think), this human-scaling makes in some cases for inordinately large robot modes. E.g., [[Blaster]]'s toy, in robot mode, is taller than most other Transformers.

The opposite problem is seen with [[Megatron (G1) toys|Masterpiece Megatron]], whose robot mode is in scale with Masterpiece Optimus Prime. The result is that, while he may transform into a very accurately-proportioned handgun, it's much larger than the real thing.

===Fanciful altmodes===
Most post-[[The Transformers: The Movie|movie]] Generation 1 characters (for that matter, most post-Generation 1 lines) are difficult to accurately scale, as they generally transform into futuristic or Cybertonian vehicles whose size we don't really know. (Or, indeed, they don't transform into vehicles at all.) The scale of characters such as [[Hot Rod]] or [[Leobreaker]] is fairly arbitrary and can only be estimated by their relative size to other characters in the fiction (although most fiction is highly inconsistent in this regard, see below). Nevertheless, if one assumes that most vehicle altmodes are intended for human passengers, comparing toys such as [[Chromedome]] and [[Lightspeed (Technobot)|Lightspeed]] suggests the combiner scale problem continues.

===Big toys===
It goes without saying that the citybot and planetbot toys (Such as [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]] and [[Unicron]]) are not remotely to scale with normal Transformer toys. While they are indeed ''large'' toys, they're only two to five times bigger than typical Transformer toys, and thus transform into "cities" and "planets" about the (relative) size of a bungalow. The scale problems extend to the details. Some of the citybot toys have visible windows, which are too large for a city, suggesting instead a medium-sized building.

However, it's hard to begrudge Hasbro not offering us a [[Primus]] toy the size of an asteroid. Where would we keep it?

===An exception===
There has only been one notable exception to all of this scale weirdness in the toys: the ''[[Alternators]]'' toyline, where every toy is a 1:24-scale representation of a real car, and thus they are in perfect scale with each other. Unfortunately, for practical reasons this limits the choice of altmodes. A Blast Off (space shuttle) Alternator toy would be 5.1′ (1.6m) long, while a Broadside (aircraft carrier) Alternator toy would be over 40′ (12m).

== Scale within fictions ==
Scale issues abound within the fiction, especially the [[Generation 1 (cartoon)|Generation 1 cartoon]]. A lot can be attributed to [[animation errors]], such as layering problems,<sup>[[:Image:Tinybluestreak.jpg|1]][[:Image:Huge_Ironhide_and_Small_Ratchet.jpg|2]][[:Image:CarnageMiniBlaster.jpg|3]]</sup> but some "errors" were deliberate choices, for a variety of reasons.

===Animated scale ≈ toy scale===
[[Image:TeenyCliff.jpg|left|thumb|Frighteningly toy-accurate.]]

Very broadly speaking, the Generation 1 cartoon depicts characters to the same relative scale as the toys (including problems discussed above) when depicting the characters in robot modes. Prime, Megatron and Soundwave are generally animated at the same height, Seekers and Autobot cars slightly shorter (though not as much as the toys are), and [[Minibot]]s smaller yet. However, this was ''far'' from consistent.
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===Comic scale ≠ toy scale ===
[[Image:OmegaSupremeintro.jpg|thumb|left|175px|No! Don't wash him in hot water! He'll . . .]]

[[Image:Omegasupreme-blasterandgrimlock.jpg|thumb|right|. . . too late.]]

The [[Generation 1 (Marvel Comics)|Generation 1 Marvel comic]] is notorious for changing the relative sizes of various characters. A single Transformer's size is rarely consistent between artists. For example, Rumble and Frenzy vary in height relative to Soundwave. A panel in the [[Time Wars]] shows [[Goldbug]], [[Ironhide (G1)|Ironhide]], [[Scattershot]], and [[Swoop (G1)|Swoop]] all the same height. [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]], titanic in his [[Command Performances|original appearance]], shrunk steadily in subsequent issues until he was not much taller than the average.

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===Variation for characterization===
[[Image:Prime has a huge head.jpg|thumb|left|150px|With 20th Anniversary Prime and Smallest Transformers Bumblebee, you can actually recreate this scene.]]

Some scale problems are for the sake of characterization. For example, Optimus Prime is routinely shown as thoroughly gargantuan, several stories in height, and capable of cradling humans in his palm. If he's the size of a real truck, Prime in robot mode should be 25′-30′ (8m-10m) tall, at best. He's drawn large because he's a leader character.

Conversely, [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]] is sometimes shown only a few feet taller than an average human, while in reality he would be 10′-15′ (3m-5m) tall (the Marvel comic actually states he's 15' tall{{fact}}). He's drawn small because he's a human-friendly character, and a junior member of the Autobots.

Those pesky [[Seeker]]s remain a major scale problem; with plane altmodes they would be among the largest everyday Transformers and would ''tower'' over their Autobot adversaries, whereas the animation instead depicts characters such as [[Thundercracker (G1)|Thundercracker]] and [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] as about the same height. Though jets are much larger than cars, they're drawn the same height so the battles appear fair. (And also to make it easier to animate; blocking a shot where characters differ radically in height is difficult.)

In a related vein, [[B.O.T.|sometimes]] Transformers are able to enter human buildings, fitting through their doors and able to run up their staircases without crashing through. A cast that couldn't enter buildings would be grossly inconvenient for telling some stories, so the animators fudge things.

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===Intentionally strange scale===
[[Image:MarvelUS-01.jpg|thumb|150px|right|[[Wikipedia:White Rabbit (song)|One side makes you larger]], [[Wikipedia:Alice's Adventures in Wonderland|one side makes you small]]. (Op's been noshing on the first side too much.)]]
Sometimes artists draw a character at a different size intentionally. For example, on the cover of the [[The Transformers (comic issue)|first issue]] of [[Generation 1 (Marvel Comics)|Marvel Generation 1]], Optimus Prime is extremely huge, compared to the highway, bridge, and normal cars. ([[Laserbeak (G1)|Laserbeak]] is bigger than usual, too.) This is purely for dramatic effect.

Another notable example is the splash screen for the "[http://www.takaratomy.co.jp/products/TF/bible/index.html World of the TRANSFORMERS]" website, which depicts [[Optimus Primal]] as the same size as [[Optimus Prime (G1)|G1 Optimus Prime]] and [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Movie Optimus Prime]], directly contradicting the size difference seen in "[[Optimal Situation]]" and elsewhere.
[[Image:World_of_the_Transformers_ent.jpg|thumb|250px|left|Meet the Supreme class <strike>[[Trukk not munky|Munky]]</strike> Optimus Primal.]]
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===Transport characters===
[[Image:MakeHoistHuffer.jpg|left|thumb|Definitely ''not'' toy-accurate.]]

Transformers that act as transport for other Transformers will often dramatically change size relative to their compatriots between one shot and the next. These changes in scale are usually attributed to [[Size_changing#Implicit size changing|implicit size changing]] by that portion of the fanbase who like to find explanations for things. The other explanation is that the animators hoped the audience wouldn't notice.

(''See the '''[[size changing]]''' article for more discussion of this topic.'')

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===Combiner characters===
[[Image:DreamwaveCover6.jpg|right|thumb|200px|Since when is a sedan nine stories tall?]]

[[Combiner]] characters are often depicted as far larger than the sum of their parts. Characters such as [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]] and [[Menasor (G1)|Menasor]] are frequently shown as [[That big green, fire-snortin' lizard|Godzilla]]-sized. Given that their limbs are mere cars and construction vehicles, this is patently absurd. ([[Superion (G1)|Superion]], by contrast, ''would'' be building-sized, given that his torso is a 100-seat jetliner.)

Combiners are also often out-of-scale with other Transformers; a combiner with cars for legs and another car for its torso should be only twice as tall as a one-car Transformer, but they are routinely drawn as five to dozens of times taller than their comrades.

===Pretender characters===
The [[Pretender]]s had interesting scale issues. In the [[Generation 1 (Marvel Comics)|original comic]] the Pretenders appeared fairly literally as their toy counterparts; Transformer-sized robots inside Transformer-sized humanoid shells. The result was that the [[Autobot]] Pretenders (in their shells) were giant-sized humans. This successfully disguised them (for about five seconds, literally) from the Decepticons, and also hid their mechanical nature from aliens. However, it was utterly useless at fooling humans. Further, in [[Guess Who the Mecannibals are Having for Dinner?|one story]], the Pretender [[Cloudburst]] exited his shell, transformed into jet mode, and then his shell (and [[Landmine (G1)|Landmine]]) boarded him as a passenger. The fact that his ''outer'' shell was now smaller than the ''inner'' robot was quietly ignored; one assumes the sort of size-changing mentioned under ''Transport characters,'' above, was involved.

In the U.S. toy commercials, Grimlock, Bumblebee, and Jazz in their new Pretender forms were small enough to fit in Powermaster Optimus Prime's hand. So, at least in that [[micro-continuity]], they were human-sized.

(The Japanese-only series ''[[Masterforce (cartoon)|Super-God Masterforce]]'' featured Pretenders who did not have outer shells but rather an ill-defined holistic transformation which explicitly involved size changing. A vaguely similar explanation appeared in [[Dreamwave Productions|Dreamwave's]] ''[[More Than Meets The Eye]]'' encyclopedia.)

===Small Transformers===
[[Image:Powerglide Astoria Marygoaround.jpg|thumb|150px|right|Actually, [[Kiss Players|disturbing Slash fiction]] is probably more of a concern than scale issues.]]
The assorted toys produced over the decades to hit the lowest price point usually include "mini" or "micro" in their name, and usually are depicted as smaller than other Transformers in the fiction as well.

====Micromasters====
The [[Micromaster]]s are roughly human-sized in robot mode, and thus virtually all of them turn into Earth vehicles that are patently incapable of seating human passengers inside them. (The Marvel comic featured ''some'' of them implicitly size-changing to vehicles that could carry human passengers, but this was rare.)

[[Image:Hotrodpatrolcommercial.jpg|thumb|150px|left|Do you have change for four hot rods?]]
The Dreamwave miniseries ''[[Micromasters]]'' had an explanation, suggesting the Micromasters were Transformers scaled to fit a smaller race of humans. This is met with skepticism from fans, in part because it doesn't explain the scale problems ''within'' the line. All Micromasters are about the same height in robot-mode, but they transform into small cars, large trucks, planes, tanks, and other vehicles that should be vastly different sizes. The alleged "smaller race of humans" must vary in size quite a bit, and only the really teeny ones get to fly the planes . . .

To be fair, there is little indication in the fiction that the Micromasters were ''supposed'' to have consistent scale. They were explictly downsized Transformers, and the scale problems inherent to that resizing were tacitly part of the fiction. Their passenger compartments can thus be regarded as vestigial.

====Mini-Cons====
The [[Mini-Con]]s of the [[Unicron Trilogy]] are another race of small robots who stand approximately the same height as humans and, like the Micromasters before them, are clearly modeled to carry passengers. Really teeny passengers. (Notable exceptions are [[Grindor (Armada)|Grindor]] (in his original body), [[Sureshock]], and [[High Wire]], who become small one-man vehicles.) In this continuity, there's no sign of mini-passengers. The prevailing theory is that Mini-Cons scan normal vehicles and then resize them to fit, retaining now-useless passenger compartments. In the [[Cybertron (cartoon)|''Cybertron'' cartoon]], the [[Recon Mini-Con Team]] have slightly-larger-than-human robot modes, but their alternate modes are large enough for a single human passenger, implying either a little size-changing, or that their cockpits are kinda cramped.

===Big Transformers===
On the other end of the scale, the problems posed by really big Transformers lie in how they interact with normal-sized ones.

====Citybots====
[[Image:EarlyGalvatronTVMagazine1.jpg|right|300px|thumb|If you were ever ''this'' big in the cartoon, ''then'' we might call you a city.]]

The characters [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]], [[Trypticon]], [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]] and [[Scorponok (G1)|Scorponok]] have "city" altmodes (with Fort Max being supposedly the biggest of the four). However, a size at which they could house enough humans, ''let alone'' Transformers, to be reasonably defined as a "city", would suggest a robot-mode that'd make [[Hojoni|Godzilla]] look like a gecko. Suffice to say, they're rarely drawn that big. It doesn't help that these citybots have "small" robots forming vital components. Fortress Maximus and Scorponok both have "human-sized" beings forming their heads. (Fort Max has a [[Cerebros (G1)|middleman]] in there, but still.) [[Full-Tilt]], [[Six Gun]], and [[Slammer]] must logically be building-sized in robot-mode to be in-scale with Trypticon and Metroplex, but, again, are not drawn as such. Aside from the sole depiction of Metroplex in the Marvel UK story [[Space Pirates!|Space Pirates]], no fiction, not even the very large depiction in the ''[[Headmasters (cartoon)|Headmasters]]'' cartoon, even ''begins'' to approximate the logical size of a true "citybot". In reality, the grossly-undersized depictions of [[Unicron]] (see below) would be closer to the size of a transformed city. This is ironic, as in Season 3 of the Generation 1 cartoon Unicron requires the eyes of a citybot to replace his own. (Though, "realistically", his eyes should be the size of Texas.) Rare examples of a realistic citybot scale include some Japanese promotional art (e.g., at right).

The cartoon episode "[[Thief in the Night]]" makes a stab at explaining this via an establishing shot that shows Metroplex to be a small sub-section of the "actual" Autobot City, although this was not repeated. Overall, it seems that in Transformer terms, "city" is better read as "building".

Although little fiction to date has featured the Headmaster leaders as cities, in the Japanese cartoons they have been employed in their tertiary modes as starships capable of housing many normal-sized Transformers. Conversely, the Marvel Generation 1 comic depicted Fortress Maximus and Scorponok as merely "large-standard" characters, equal in height to Powermaster Optimus Prime and (in some UK issues) Rodimus Prime. (To be fair, Powermaster Prime was often drawn undersized in the comics).

====Planets and planetbots====
[[Image:Cybertronplanet.jpg|left|250px|thumb|If we're generous and assume Cybertron is only the size of Earth's moon, then the larger visible buildings are roughly the size of Massachusetts stood on end, and you could wedge ''France'' into that gash. (Which would probably improve both Cybertron and France.)]]

Scale when it comes to planets is so fraught it's painful. The problems of describing citybots as "cities" is a thousand times worse if [[Unicron]] is supposed to have a planet alternate mode, and [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] is in turn supposed to be of similar size. Though different stories have compared Cybertron/Primus and Unicron to drastically different real planets, the fact remains that they are ''planets'', and yet are shown in such insane scale to characters as to suggest they are the size of a ''very'' small moon (or [[Darth Vader|space station]]).

To start with, Cybertron was shown throughout Generation 1 with buildings visible from space. Although this was intended to show that the planet was technological in nature, it makes little sense, as the structures would have to be the size of small ''nations'' to be visible. If the buildings were in fact supposed to be skyscrapers (or even ''2000 A.D.'' style arcologies) sized for 30' (10m) robots, Cybertron would still be less than 100 miles (150km) across. By comparison, the rather [http://www.starwars.com/databank/location/coruscant/index.html Coruscant]-like shots of Cybertron in ''[[Beast Machines (cartoon)|Beast Machines]]'' may be less distinctive or "Cybertronian", but are ''far'' more believable.

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[[Image:UnicronEatsGalvyMmmm.jpg|right|thumb|Either [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvy]] is humungo, or [[Lithone]] is ''tiiinyyy!!!'']]

Unicron is a more extreme problem. Assuming no [[size changing]] occurs during his transformation, in robot mode he would be so massive that any shot featuring a recognizable ''part'' of his body, let alone the whole thing, would be on a scale such that no normal Transformer would even be visible. Scenes in the ''[[The Transformers: The Movie|Movie]]'' in which he directly interacts with normal Cybertronians are blatantly absurd (though totally phat-looking). Shots such as the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobot]]s fleeing his grasping hand, a starship penetrating his eye, or ''especially'' him picking up Galvatron between his fingers before swallowing him, break any concept of "planetary" scale. If Unicron is the size of a planet, his hands would be the size of continents. This would make Galvatron (in the image to the right) the size of Great Britain.

There is no explanation for any of this. Just go with it.

The depiction of Unicron's scale in ''[[Armada]]'' was (debatably) a slight improvement, in that physical interaction with normal beings was not attempted. He preferred instead to communicate with normal Transformers by possessing [[Sideways|one of them]]. Nevertheless, shots featuring [[Thrust (Armada)|Thrust]] and [[Megatron (Armada)|Megatron]] standing on his neck are still ''farcically'' out of scale.

===An exception: The 2007 ''Transformers'' movie===
[[Image:Moviescale1.jpg|thumb|left|250px|Scale is absolutely not an issue in the movie. Riiight.]]

The creators of the [[Transformers (2007)|live-action movie]] took great pains to avoid out-of-scale issues. (Well, greater than previous franchises.) This is sometimes reflected in the choice of vehicle or the design of their robot mode. E.g., [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] is an extended-hood cab in order to have more mass with which to make a taller robot mode. [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]'s robot mode is nearly as wide as it is tall, with shorter, digitigrade legs, so the massive jet-former won't end up twice as tall as Optimus. In the case of [[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]], his huge alternate mode simply results in a hulking, towering robot mode.

There are still minor scale issues to be found, though. For example, Optimus Prime can hold both [[Sam Witwicky|Sam]] and [[Mikaela Banes|Mikaela]] in one hand. Comparing this shot with when he picks up [[Archibald Witwicky]]'s glasses a few minutes later, it seems the glasses have lenses a foot (30cm) in diameter. This is a visual cheat so the glasses are visible to the audience. There's also debate about whether [[Frenzy (Movie)|Frenzy]]'s head could compact itself into a slim mobile phone. The movie-franchise toys, meanwhile, are only intermittently consistent (particularly since some of the secondary ones are redecos of toys from previous lines), though many of the wheeled vehicles are close to 1:35 scale.
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===Scale problems and size-changing===
Some fans interpret the many otherwise-unexplained scale issues above to all be the result of [[size changing]], but this is debatable. If virtually all characters use mass-shifting (or whatever) to gain or drop a few feet of height for no logical reason, the technology would be pointlessly mundane. There's also no known reason for (e.g.) the Seekers to choose to get ''shorter'' when going into battle. A to-scale Starscream in robot mode could kick Bumblebee around like a soccer ball. There's simply no positive evidence that size-changing is so widespread.

==Official Scale Guides ==
[[Image: tfcartoonscaleguideic1.jpg|left|thumb|Official Scale Guides]] Animators and comic book artists received official scale guides showing relative and (in some cases) absolute heights. Some of these were published in the character model guide ''[[Transformers:_The_Ark|Transformers: The Ark]].'' Though they were sometimes ignored, they still give insight into the official scale of characters in Generation 1. However, even here, there are problems. Devastator in the Season One scale guide was approximately 2.5 times the height of Optimus Prime, but by Season Two he was somewhat less than twice Prime's height.
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==Show scale vs. toy scale==
[[Image:Omegagrab.jpg|right|thumb|I know he's meant to be ''big'', but holy crap, dude!]]Some characters have great discrepancies between their cartoon scale and their toy scale. "Giant" characters such as [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]] are, even aside from any [[size changing]] for transport purposes, clearly not in the same scale in toy form as they are depicted on screen. [[Mini-Cassette|Cassette characters]] such as [[Rumble (G1)|Rumble]]'s toys are roughly the same height as most [[Minibot]]s, while in the show they are usually portrayed as human-sized.

[[Hot Rod|Rodimus Prime]] and [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] are usually shown to be of a fairly similar height (although Magnus is much bulkier), whereas there is a considerable difference between the size of their toys. By the same token, Rodimus is always depicted as being an equal stature to his opposing leader [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]], whereas the toy Galvatron is instead the same size as Magnus. Optimus Prime is also usually shown as only a head or so shorter than Magnus (if that), which gets very strange when you realise that a redco of Prime's toy forms but a small part of Magnus' robot mode.

[[Image:ShrinkingHeavy.jpg|left|thumb|I lost thirty tons, thanks to the Jump-Cut! Thank you, Jump-Cut!]]

[[Metroplex (Cybertron)|''Cybertron'' Metroplex]] and the other citizens of [[Gigantion]] are depicted as gargantuan in animation, whereas the toys are merely among the normal boxed size-classes. (Although, the Japanese ''[[Galaxy Force]]'' release, dubbed "Megalo Convoy", included an exclusive [[redeco]] of the [[Legends of Cybertron]] [[Optimus Prime (Armada)|Optimus Prime]] to indicate the "correct" scale.) Within the animation, though, this causes problems with their Mini-Con partners, who are depicted as human-sized in robot mode by themselves, but when directly interacting with their larger partners, have their relative size in relation to the toy . . . meaning some temporarily gigantic Mini-Cons!

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== ''Beast Era'' scale ==
[[Image:RattrapLOVEScheetor.jpg|thumb|right|I'm tellin' ya, ''all'' da rats in Brooklyn are dis big!]]

In the [[Beast Era]], scale is not such a large issue, although it does crop up in less obvious ways.

===Real world scale===
Although the Beast Warriors are consistent day-to-day in their relative size to each other, their scale in relation to their real-world animal equivalents is more complex. While the bug characters such as [[Waspinator]] and [[Inferno (BW)|Inferno]] are obviously scaled-up, ''most'' of the characters are subtly not quite the right size.

[[Cheetor (BW)|Cheetor]] and [[Tigatron]] are shown standing next to real members of their species, and they are both the same size as the animals in question. {{storylink|Beast Wars (Part 1)}} {{storylink|Law of the Jungle}} This makes them (and Cheetor in particular, since he's around more) the measuring sticks for the other characters. Therefore, [[Rattrap]] is a monstrously huge rat, the size of a large dog (indeed, the writers stated<ref>[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/msg/8227a6ca84c0238d Bob Forward gives Rattrap's height from the show bible]</ref> that Season 1 Rattrap was 5' (1.5m) tall). [[Dinobot]] is considerably larger than a real velociraptor, closer in size to a ''[[Wikipedia: Utahraptor|Utahraptor]]''. [[Rhinox (BW)|Rhinox]] is a rather small rhinoceros, and [[Optimus Primal]] is a roughly normal gorilla. However, [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]] is a tiny specimen of t-rex (Perhaps a Nanotyrannus [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanotyrannus]? ).

In their interactions with adult [[protohuman]]s, the Transformer characters seem between twice and three times their height. Considering our ancestors really were smaller than modern humans, this is not extremely wrong, but it deserves noting.

=== Dawn of Future's Past scale===
After the Great Upgrade (see below), the Maximals posessed roughly human-size bodies, yet they still turned into vehicles (albeit "Cybertronic" ones). Because the toys of the characters are redecoes of other characters, oddities in scale crop up. [[Cheetor]]'s car mode still has seats, and most other characters feature a cockpit, a similar problem to the [[Micromaster]]s. (see above).

=== Scale relative to Generation 1 ===
[[Image:Beastwarriors scale.jpg|thumb|left|Beast Megatron's size vs. Optimus Prime in America... and Japan. I guess the Blasty Zone adds on a few tons to [[Beast Era]] characters.]]

Between the [[Great War]] and the Beast Era, the majority of the Cybertronian race considerably downgraded in size, apparently in the [[Maximal Upgrade]] Program. (A necessary premise of the show, as the Beast Warriors are supposed to transform into roughly-normal-sized animals, not vehicles.) When entering the ''[[Ark (G1)|Ark]]'', the Beast Warriors are quite small compared to the dormant Generation 1 characters, especially [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]. One can easily imagine them sitting inside the passenger compartments of the Generation 1 characters. When interacting with the Autobot technology of the ''Ark'' and the [[Autobot shuttle]], the Maximals are often dealing with equipment grossly oversized for them (standing on the chairs to reach the controls, turning knobs the size of their heads). The ''Ark'' also seems to feature some human-sized control panels, such as the computer in [[Master Blaster]]. Without any height booster, Blackarachnia can interface well with these controls.

On the other hand, ''[[Robot Masters]]'' depicted Generation 1 and ''Beast Wars'' characters like Optimus Prime and Optimus Primal as being exactly the same size. Lovely. It's possible that passage through the [[Blasty Zone]] may somehow [[Wikipedia:Boom tube#Later Additions to the Concept|account for this discrepancy]].

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=== Toy scale vs. cartoon scale ===
[[Image:Beastwarsmaxgroup.jpg|right|thumb|350px|Airazor picks the Ultra-class figure.]]

The Season 1 cast of ''Beast Wars'' were not designed with the same relative sizes as the toyline. The most noticeable problem is Optimus Primal, who has an Ultra toy (almost twice the size of the next-largest Maximal toys), while in the show he's shorter than both Dinobot and Rhinox (Has/Tak would later develop a toy of Primal that was in roughly correct, show accurate scale with the others in their [[Robot Masters]] line). Further, Cheetor and Tigatron's toys use the same mold, but Tigatron is a head taller in the show (both because tigers are larger than cheetahs, and because Cheetor is "a kid").

From Season 2 onwards, new characters, and new bodies for old characters, became more consistent in size (and appearance) with their toys.

The ''[[Beast Machines (toyline)|Beast Machines]]''' toyline was ''far'' worse in size discrepancies with the cartoon. Of the Maximals featured in the show, the tallest character, [[Silverbolt (Fuzor)|Silverbolt]], is the ''shortest'' toy, while the diminutive [[Nightscream (BM)|Nightscream]] is a massive Ultra-class toy. And, sadly, the most show-accurate toy, Air Attack [[Optimus Primal]], is a ''ginormous'' Supreme figure, towering over the other toys. (Weirdly, the King Kong-like size of this toy became canon [[Prime_Spark|in one specific]] [[micro-continuity]].)

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==External links==
*[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/msg/6db411e03e75a342?dmode=source Estimated "real-life" heights for several Transformers, derived from the size of their alt-modes, archived from alt.toys.transformers on groups.google.com]

==References==
<references/>

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