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Megatron (BW)

2008-01-02T10:45:18Z

60.50.249.190:

{{Template:Disambig3|Megatron}}

:''Megatron is a [[Predacon (BW)|Predacon]], a [[Vehicon (BM)|Vehicon]], and a [[Decepticon]] in the [[Beast Era]] portion of the [[Generation 1]] [[continuity family]]. He's also briefly known as Savage and Noble. He's a busy villain. Yesss.''

[[Image:Megatronbw.jpg|right|thumb|250px|If anybody makes any more Barney jokes they shall have their tail/blaster shoved up somewhere very uncomfortable. Yesss....]]

'''Megatron''' has one goal -- restoring glory and power to the Predacon race, with himself at the helm. What distinguishes Megatron from the countless others who share this goal is his chutzpah. He is willing to risk everything — time, space, himself — if need be. And there were times he would have made it happen were it not for [[Optimus Primal]]

Megatron is skillful at orchestrating vast schemes by manipulating others into doing them for him -- an idle suggestion here, a conspicuously-planted object of interest there. He knows his enemies inside and out and exactly how to provoke them. He has no friends, only pawns, or occasionally, [[Inferno (BW)|pawns that are too reliable to risk losing]]. Because of this attitude, this superiority complex, he despises working with the very troops he needs to carry out his plans. His hubris does not make him very popular, and so he must rely on power and fear to rule them. In fact, he prefers [[Vehicon|mindless drones]].

Megatron is a gambler and can sometimes be a ham. (His manner of saying "Yesss..." is practically vaudevillian.) He has a twisted sense of humor and an over-developed sense of drama which rule everything he conceives, both long and short term. When he destroys you, he wants you to know that it was he who did this, and just how badly you were had. This is his greatest weakness. Like a Bond villain, he'll gladly boast to the hero at length about how smart and clever he was, giving his victim time to formulate a counterattack (he admits the Predacons sometimes gloat too much). He often sabotages himself by neglecting the quick and easy solutions for the bigger, meaner, and more complex.

Prior to the signing of the [[Pax Cybertronia]], Megatron was a field commander in the Predacon army, where he learned much about strategy and tactics. Upon ratification of peace with the [[Maximal Imperium]] most Predacons laid down their arms. Megatron refused and went rogue.

{{quote|The universe cowered once at the name of Megatron and it shall do so again!|Megatron|"[[Optimal Situation]]"}}
''Japanese name:'' '''Megalligator''' (alligator)<br>
''European-market name:'' '''Dragone''' (Transmetal 2), '''Metal T-Rex''' (Transmetal)

==Fiction==
===Animated continuity===
====Beast Wars II catalog====
[[Image:MegatronGalvatronBW1.jpg|left|150px|thumb|pwnd.]]

On planet [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]], Megatron once disagreed with [[Galvatron (BWII)|Galvatron]] over opinions on galactic conquest, and engaged him in battle over it. At the time, Megatron momentarily let his guard down, and was defeated. Galvatron declared "Your era is over, Megatron!"

Later, Megatron noted that while Galvatron was ambitious, he cared for his underlings - and although he was loathe to admit it, he acknowledged that Galvatron probably had all the regal bearing of a new [[Emperor of Destruction]]. {{storylink|Beast Wars II catalog}}

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====Dreamwave comics continuity====
After stealing the [[Golden Disk]] ''(wrongly drawn as the [[Alien Disk]])'', Megatron broke into [[Vector Sigma]] along with [[Dinobot (BW)|Dinobot]] and reviewed historical files on many of the Autobots and Decepticons from the [[Generation 1]] era. He told Dinobot to refer to him henceforth as Megatron. {{storylink|Transformers: More Than Meets the Eye #8}}

====''Timelines: Dawn of Futures Past''====
[[Image:Megatronbwsuit.jpg|thumb|150px|Megatron's technicolor dreamcoat.]]
On Cybertron, Megatron wore removable transformable armor, which transformed into a missile-launching armored platform, over his basic bodyframe (which transforms into a hovertank). This quickly-discarded outer shell was possibly used to comply with the ratification of the [[Pax Cybertronia]], which required Predacons to lay down their arms. A Predacon field commander before the peace, Megatron refused to comply with these new regulations and struck out on his own to destroy the [[Maximal Imperium]].

With some [[Cryotek|help]] from [[Divebomb (G1)|various sources]], he assembled a crew of ragtag criminals and miscreants for the purpose of stealing the Golden Disk and using it to find [[Earth]]. Succeeding in stealing the disk, he, [[Dinobot (BW)|his lieutenant]], and [[Scorponok (BW)|another accomplice]] fought their way out of the [[Archives]], eliminating [[Unit 1|one guard]] and dodging [[Tigatron|another]]. They were swiftly picked up by the ''[[Darksyde]]'', a ship stolen by the rest of their crew.

Megatron instructed [[Tarantulas]] to study the disk for the coordinates of Earth while the ''Darkside'' battled its several pursuers. Although they were followed by the Maximal ships [[Axalon (BW)|''Axalon'']] and the ''[[Chromia 10]]'', the ''Darksyde''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s mission was also aided by a third ship crewed by the Predacon agents [[Laserbeak (G1)|Laserbeak]] and [[Buzzsaw (G1)|Buzzsaw]]. Though the ''Chromia 10'' and the Predacon ship were destroyed, the ''Darksyde'' was still followed by the ''Axalon''. Megatron removed his transformable armor and patched a video feed through to the ''Axalon'''s captain, [[Optimus Primal]]. Declaring himself the leader of the Predacons, Megatron opened a [[transwarp]] portal through which both ships travelled. {{storylink|Dawn of Future's Past}}

====''Beast Wars''====
:''Voice actor:'' [[David Kaye]] (English), [[Shigeru Chiba]] (Japanese), [[Antonio Moreno]] (Brazil)

[[Image:Megatronbwspidersgame.jpg|left|thumb|200px|I thought I told you NO MORE BARNEY JOKES.]]
After stealing the Maximal relic, the [[Golden Disk]], and [[Darksyde|a ship]], he and his crew were followed through a [[transwarp]] portal by the [[Axalon (BW)|''Axalon'']]. After crashing on a planet that was supposed to be [[Earth]], yet seemingly wasn't, both the [[Maximal]]s and the Predacons took organic beast forms to protect themselves against the massive amount of Energon radiation. Megatron now transformed into a purple ''Tyrannosaurus rex''.

Dinobot chastised Megatron, accusing him of leading the Predacons to the wrong planet and challenged Megatron for leadership of the Predacons. Megatron simply ignored the challenge and had Scorponok dispose of him. {{storylink|Beast Wars, Part 1}}

Despite the loss of a formidable crony, Megatron positioned himself on the new world and the "Beast Wars" began. Being on a world filled with Energon allowed [[Terrorsaur (BW)|Terrorsaur]] to find a superhorde, and power himself to great levels. With this power, Terrorsaur was able to demolish Megatron in battle and take over the Predacons. However, through the Maximals' actions, the superhorde was destroyed. Terrorsaur was eventually ridden of his newfound power and returned to an angered Megatron, who was rebuilt by [[Scorponok (BW)|Scorponok]]. {{storylink|Power Surge}}

[[Image:Megatronbwtrex.jpg|150px|thumb|Today is a beautiful day to be stomping on things!]]

Again, Terrorsaur tried to usurp Megatron, this time using an apparently-turned [[Rattrap]], who used a device to paralyze Megatron. The Predacons argued over who would be leader, but agreed to put Rattrap and Megatron away for the time being. Megatron was able to easily escape using his secret voice commands, leaving Rattrap to his fate. Revealing himself to have escaped, Megatron allowed Terrorsaur to lead the Predacons in battle with the Maximals. Terrorsaur failed miserably, showing his ineptitude to the Predacons, which was Megatron's plan all along. {{storylink|Double Jeopardy}}

Megatron later formulated a plan to get off Earth. First, he had the other Predacons act dissatisfied with his leadership, causing a battle that apparently destroyed the Predacons, using a Maximal spy camera that he was aware of to play out the trick. Then, the Maximals scavenged the ''Darksyde'' for parts to repair the ''Axalon''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s stardrive. Dinobot discovered the deception and rushed to warn the leaving Maximals. In the scuffle, Megatron snuck aboard. In the ''Axalon'', he managed to knock out every Maximal on the ship but Rattrap, who he started crushing to death. An angered [[Rhinox (BW)|Rhinox]] woke up and threw Megatron off the ''Axalon''. However, Megatron's tail weapon was stuck in the console, causing the ''Axalon'' to crash. Again. {{storylink|Victory (Beast Wars episode)|Victory}}

Later, Megatron caught wind of the return of the [[Vok]] and called a ceasefire between the two factions, realizing he had more important things to worry about. The Vok did indeed return, and planned to destroy the planet the Transformers were on with their massive [[Planet Buster]] (cleverly disguised as the [[Moon (moon)|Moon]]). Optimus Primal managed to stop the planet buster after flying close to it within a modified stasis pod. Megatron added a little surprise for Primal within the pod, though; locking the door so that Primal could not escape and was destroyed when the planet buster exploded. {{storylink|Other Voices}}

The [[quantum surge]] from the exploding planet buster bathed Megatron in quantum energies, upgrading him into a [[transmetal]]. Megatron quickly rallied his forces and attempted an all-out attack on the leader-less Maximals. Megatron and the Predacons took the upperhand in battle until a transmetal Optimus Primal (brought back online by [[Rhinox]]) saved the day. {{storylink|Coming of the Fuzors, Part 1}}

With both factions now aware that the planet they were stranded on was really prehistoric [[Earth]], Megatron was free to put his full plan into motion. Locating the crashed [[Ark]], Megatron attempted to alter history by assassinating the unconscious [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]. By doing so, he intended to ensure the defeat of the [[Autobot]]s and thus the victory of the [[Decepticon]]s and Predacons. (For unknown reasons, he showed no concern that such a drastic change to the timestream might erase his own existence.) {{storylink|The Agenda, Part 3}}

The Maximals managed to save Prime's life by having [[Teletraan I]] repair his body while Optimus Primal kept his spark within his own structure, transforming his body into a more powerful form. The Maximals defeated Megatron and returned Prime's spark to its proper place. {{storylink|Optimal Situation}}

[[Image:Megatrontm2render.jpg|left|thumb|250px|Two Megatrons for the price of one.]]

Megatron was not to be outdone. He managed to sneak inside the Ark (which was now the new Maximal base) and take the spark of the original Megatron, seeking to replicate the effect Optimus Prime's spark had on Primal's body. He placed his namesake's spark within his body, transforming himself into a powerful dragon. With this newfound body, Megatron was able to give Optimus Primal a sound beating, until chased away by the entire Maximal group. {{Storylink|Master Blaster}}

Megatron's next evil scheme involved the legendary Decepticon battleship, the [[Nemesis (G1)|Nemesis]]. After finding the ship deep beneath the ocean, Megatron intended to pilot it back to the future and lay waste to the Maximals on Cybertron. {{storylink|Nemesis, Part 1}} First, however, he planned to annihilate the Ark on prehistoric Earth. Primal infiltrated the Nemesis and kept Megatron busy until Rhinox could fly a shuttlecraft through the bridge and take the Predacon out. The Nemesis crashed a second time and thus preserved history.

After returning the original Megatron's spark to its proper body, the Maximals headed back to Cybertron with the incarcerated Megatron shackled to the outside of their ship. {{Storylink|Nemesis, Part 2}}

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====''Tales of the Beast Wars''====
[[Image:Antagony megatron.jpg|left|thumb|Kinky.]]
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====''Robot Masters'' (Japan-only)====
Voice actor: [[Toshitsugu Takashina]] (Japan)

Taking advantage of the [[Blasty Zone]] as a means of time travel (and apparently size-enhancer), Megatron journeyed to a point in history where the original Megatron had gone missing, leaving the [[Decepticon]]s without a leader. "Beast Megatron" took command of the Decepticons, leading them on a quest to collect a powerful element, [[solitarium]], from within the Earth. Beast Megatron's plans were quickly thwarted by [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] and a troop of time-displaced Autobots and Maximals, including [[Star Saber (G1)|Star Saber]], [[Victory Leo]], [[Lio Convoy]] and Beast Megatron's arch nemesis, [[Optimus Primal]].

Beast Megatron later discovered a large deposit of solitarium beneath [[New York City]], and along with [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]], [[Smokesniper]], [[Gigant Bomb]] and [[Wingstun]], laid waste to the Big Apple. The Autobots, accompanied by [[Reverse Convoy]], arrived and dealt with Beast Megatron's forces quickly. However, Reverse Convoy revealed himself to be the original Megatron in disguise and betrayed them. Now going by the name [[Megatron (G1)#Robot Masters (Japan-only)|Rebirth Megatron]], he teamed up with Beast Megatron and the pair made trouble for the Autobot commanders. However, the Autobots were able to defeat the two Megatrons, sending the villains into retreat.

====''Beast Wars Metals'' manga====

''(Note: although it picks up after the events of the first season, the Beast Wars Metals manga is not in-continuity with the television series.)''

Megatron is a bumbling oaf constantly leading the [[Predacon|Predacons]] against the forces of the [[Maximal|Maximals]]. {{storylink| Beast Wars Metals (manga)|Beast Wars Metals}}

====IDW ''Beast Wars'' comics====
[[Image:IDW Megatron Magmatron.jpg|left|300px|thumb|Go back to anime, Magmatron!]]

In Lio Convoy's opinion, Megatron is a simple wild card, no real threat when compared with Magmatron. This drives home the fact that Cybertron has no idea of the damage Megatron had and would inflict, or the lengths he would go to becoming arguably the most powerful transformer since the Great War.

After dispatching [[Rampage (BW)|Rampage]] and [[Inferno (BW)|Inferno]] to oversee the installation of [[Sentinel]] into the [[Darkside]], Megatron was attacked by [[Magmatron (BW)|Magmatron]], who had been assigned to arrest him by the [[Tripredacus Council]]. Although Megatron proved more than a match for the experienced Predacon general individually, he was ambushed and paralyzed by [[Iguanus (BW)|Iguanus]] and [[Drill Bit (BW)|Drill Bit]]. Magmatron intended to use a [[transwarp shunt]] to transport his prisoner back to [[Cybertron]]. {{storylink|The Gathering, Part 3}} Thanks to the intervention of [[Grimlock (G1)|Grimlock]], [[Optimus Minor]], and [[Razorbeast]], Magmatron was sent home empty-handed. Razorbeast was tempted to dispatch the prone Megatron, but released him instead, due to his desire to avoid interfering with the timeline. {{storylink|The Gathering, Part 4}}

Ravage attempted to free Megatron after his capture, but didn't progress very far in his plans.{{storylink|The Ascending, Part 1}}

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====''Beast Machines''====
Voice actor: [[David Kaye]] (US), [[Shigeru Chiba]] (Japan), [[Francisco José]] (Brazil)

[[Image:Megatron for life.jpg|right|thumb|Whaddya mean, 'Triumph of the Will'?]]Breaking free from his constraints on the Autobot shuttle while it traveled through transwarp space, Megatron arrived back home on Cybertron well before the Maximals did. Using technology of his own devising, he took over the entire planet, and stored the [[spark]] of every last inhabitant under his citadel.

Additionally, Megatron seemed to have undergone a change. Gone was the ham who sought conquest for the sake of glory and power. He now spoke as if a god, almost reminiscent of his quotes from the Covenant of Primus. His actions were based not on the thirst for revenge on Maximals but in hopes of becoming a grand liberator for their kind. In addition, while as recently as the final battle of the Beast Wars, he would flatten a subordinate for even mentioning "the H word" ("honor"), he now would keep his word to his enemies, even at the risk of future losses. Further, at some point in this period, Megatron became convinced that beast modes and other vestiges of the organic were an abomination that should be scoured from Cybertron, leaving only technological purity. (Before he had seemed perfectly pleased with his dinosaur and dragon beast modes and, in fact, seemed to revel in them.) This was a new and even madder Megatron.

''As described above, the time period from when Megatron broke free from the shuttle, to when Optimus Primal and the Maximals arrived on Cybertron, was vastly transformative for both Megatron and the planet, and probably constituted an epic story in its own right. Nevertheless, the period was only vaguely described in the animated series, and only slightly elaborated upon in secondary media. Many questions remain unanswered.''

When the Maximals arrived in their shuttle, they found the planet empty aside from countless [[Vehicon|mindless drones]] controlled by Megatron. Megatron's drones immediately bombarded the Maximals with [[devolving gas]] to revert their powerful [[Transmetal]] bodies to normal beast mode bodies, and they were also affected by a [[transformation lock]] virus which Megatron had used to help him conquer the planet in the first place.

Despite his best efforts, the Maximals escaped, and learned to transform again after Primal used the [[Oracle]]'s power to [[reformatting|reformat]] them. They began making short work of his Vehicons, so he removed three sparks from his collection to create [[Vehicon general]]s which could think on their feet in battle. For the generals he chose sparks of Transformers that the Maximals already knew, such that if they ever discovered the sparks' identities, they would be reluctant to destroy them: [[Silverbolt (Fuzor)|Silverbolt]] became [[Jetstorm (BM)|Jetstorm]], [[Rhinox (BW)|Rhinox]] became [[Tankor]], and [[Waspinator]] became [[Thrust (BM)|Thrust]]. After Jetstorm was reformatted into Silverbolt and Rhinox reawakened and destroyed, Megatron used the sparks of [[Obsidian (BM)|Obsidian]] and [[Strika]] to replace them.

However, Megatron still retained his own beast mode, unwilling to take the momentary risk of transferring his spark to a new body. After releasing the energies of the [[Key to Vector Sigma]] and the [[Plasma Energy Chamber]], Megatron attempted to transfer his spark to another body, but wound of stuck in [[Savage/Noble]], a purely organic creature. Eventually, Megatron would transfer his spark to the [[Grand Mal]], a vessel shaped in his own head. He attempted to consume the captured sparks, but [[Nightscream]] managed to depolarize his spark, causing it to jump between discarded shells and attack everyone in a zombie like fashion. Rattrap would use a [[spark extractor]] to repolarize his spark, allowing Megatron to regain his senses, but trapping him in a [[Diagnostic Drone]].

Ultimately, Megatron succeeded in capturing the sparks of all the Maximals, leaving just Optimus Primal and himself as the only two Transformers on the entire planet. At the end of a fierce one-on-one fight, in which Megatron wore a copy of the powerful Optimal Optimus body, Megatron began consuming his amassed sparks, growing ever more powerful. However, when he attempted to use the [[Key to Vector Sigma]] to transform the planet's [[organic core]] into [[technomatter]], Primal managed to dislodge them both. They plummeted into the planet's goopy core and, somehow, Primal was able to reformat the entire planet, destroying himself and Megatron completely, but freeing all the lost sparks to repopulate their newly redecorated planet.

====''Beast Wars Reborn'' text story====

[[Image:BeastWarsRebornMegatronArtwork1.jpg|right|250px|thumb|Reborn on the wagon of a travelin' show, Primal used ta dance fer the money they'd throw! Megatron would do whatever he coooouuuld!]]

Both Megatron and Optimus Primal awoke inside a bizarre temple-like spaceship which was hurtling through space. Neither had any memory of who they were or how they got there, only their own names and a feeling of discomfort between one another. The pair went about investigating the ship in search of answers. While Megatron's memory was lost, his personality remained mostly intact: he was more concerned with seizing control of the ship before Primal did in order to gain the upper hand.

They eventually found a data log and discovered that their sparks had been taken and they were reborn into new bodies (unbeknownst to them, bodies identical to their original Earth forms). However, their memories were intentionally not uploaded into their new bodies. While searching the log they discovered that the ship's main power source was a [[Golden Disk]] lodged within a giant pillar. Megatron immediately raced to obtain the Disk and Primal followed him. The closer they got to the disk the more the ship attempted to thwart their advance by manipulating its atmosphere conditions.

Once they reached the chamber the ship's environment suddenly morphed to that of a decaying planet littered with the corpses of robots. The corpses came to life and began shambling toward them, intent on eating their sparks. They made short work of the zombies, leaving Megatron to obtain the Golden Disk and Primal with a feeling that he shouldn't entirely trust Megatron.

From another dimension beyond time and space, [[Primus]] recognized that something was amiss and sent one of his messengers to meet Primal and Megatron within the spaceship.

====''Universe''====
When [[Optimus Primal]]'s spark is revived from the within the Matrix to protect the multiverse, this action freed Megatron's spark as well. The reborn Megatron returned to the ranks of the Predacons, but this time, Optimus Primal found himself in an uneasy alliance with him against Unicron. Megatron traveled with his old nemesis from universe to universe, wherever the growing multiversal conflict had spread. But now with Unicron disappeared into the [[Unicron Singularity]], it remains to be seen whether Megatron's insane ambition will resurface.

Prior to the Universe Conflict an alternate dimension's Megatron was killed by a [[Razorclaw (Universe)|Tigerhawk]] who was corrupted by the Vok. Yet another dimension's Megatron was killed by it's realities [[Obsidian (Universe)|Obsidian]] and [[Tankor (Universe Decepticon)|Tankor]]. All three Megatron-murderers were eventualy promoted to the rank of [[Unicron's General]]. It seems that killing Megatron may be part of Unicron's criteria for choosing a General.

===Transformers Legends Anthology===

==Toys==
===Beast Wars===
* '''Optimus Primal vs. Megatron''' (Basic 2-pack, 1996)
: ''Japanese ID number:'' '''D-6'''

: The initial version of ''Beast Wars'' Megatron transformed into a green alligator. He was only availble in this two pack with the bat version of Optimus Primal.

* '''Megatron''' (Ultra, 1996)
: ''Japanese ID number:'' '''D-1'''

[[Image:Bwmegatron_toy.jpg|left|thumb|250px|Don't call him Barney.]]

: This Megatron transformed into a purple organic Tyrannosaurus dinosaur. He has limited articulation in beast mode, but his dinosaur head can shoot water. In robot mode, he has no hands, as his right arm ends with his dino head, and his tail, folded into a pincer, forms his left arm. The outer shells of his dinosaur thighs conceal spring-loaded missile launchers that fire anchor-shaped projectiles.

: His robot head feature two bat-like wing adornments that fold to become a battlemask.

: This mold was also used to make [[Beast_Machines|Beast Machines]] [[Dinobot_(BM)|Dinobots]] [[T-Wrecks]].

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*'''Convobat vs Megaligator''' (Basic 2-pack, 1997)
: ''Japanese ID number:'' '''S-1'''

:This figure is a purple [[redeco]] of Megatron's Gator form, and was sold with a red and blue redeco of Bat Primal. This may or may not be intended to be the same character as Megatron or G1 Megatron.

* '''Megatron''' (Transmetal Mega, 1998)
: ''Japanese ID number:'' '''D-40'''

[[Image:BW_Megatron_Transmetal.jpg|thumb|right|200px|[[Rubber Ducky|Ducky]] not included. Bummer.]]

: The third ''Beast Wars'' Megatron toy transformed into a mechanical Tyrannosaurus. In beast mode he has some useful articulation, located in his legs, jaw and tail. As with all ''Transmetal'' toys, he has a 'third' vehicle mode, in this case a tyrannosaurus with roller skates (which flip out from his legs) and jet engines on the sides on upper thighs.

: Really.

:In robot mode, he finally has two hands, with his tail becoming a flexible, segmented cutlass weapon, though it was depicted in most media as a new version of his main cannon. This cutlass/cannon weapon can be stored at his side on the connector piece it was attached to when in beast mode.

:He is one of the many victims of the crippling disease known as [[Gold Plastic Syndrome]]

: There are some color differences between this the American and Japanese versions: the American had a light purple-ish glittery plastic for the beast-mode hands, tail, and skates while the Japanese had simple light gray instead. This mold was retooled used to make [[Armada]] [[Predacon_(Armada)|Predacon]].

* '''Megatron''' (Transmetal 2 Ultra, 1999)
: ''Japanese ID number:'' '''D-47'''

[[Image:BWdragonmegs_toy.jpg|left|thumb|250px|Don't call him Puff, either.]]

: The final version of ''Beast Wars'' Megatron transformed into a mostly mechanical dragon, with articulation in his legs, little dragon arms and his flexible, rubber neck with vacuum metalised overlapping plates attached on top. The neck was flexible able to be controlled and locked into position by a small lever located at its base. Two projectiles stored in his wings can be fired from a spring-loaded launcher inside his dragon's mouth.

:In robot mode, Megatron resembles a winged demon, appropriate given his characterisation. His chest is dominated by a small cockpit with a control chair inside (see Trivia). Megatron's dragon neck and head replaces his left arm, with an additional missile launcher above his helmet.

: ''Transmetal 2'' Megatron has a third 'vehicle' mode, which appears to be an afterthought, as it basically involves the dragon sitting very low to the ground so the wheels mounted on the legs and body can make contact and roll.

:This mold was also used to make [[Robots in Disguise (franchise)|''Robots in Disguise'']] [[Cryotek]].

* '''Megatron''' (Ultra-class, 2006)
:Representing Megatron before his crash on Earth, ''Timelines'' Megatron is a redeco of Cybertron Defense Red Alert, Megatron transforms into a large, purple, eight-wheeled armored vehicle equipped with a cannon and a a new head sculpt. His cannon flips open to reveal a missile inside.

===Beast Machines===
* '''Megatron''' (Mega, 2000)
: ''Japanese ID number:'' '''BR-05'''

[[Image:BMMegs_toy.jpg|left|thumb|165px|He's a flasher! Mangle!]]

: The first ''Beast Machines'' incarnation of Megatron is based on his ''Transmetal 2'' dragon form, but with ''Beast Machines'' design style at a lower price point. The result was a weak copy of the larger, much more detailed predecessor.

: Like his television counterpart, his wings can fold around himself to create the control armour/cloak.

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* '''Megatron''' (McDonald's Happy Meal, 2000)
: Transforms from cloaked robot mode to a very weak dragon mode.

* '''Megatron''' (Kids' meal, 2000)

: The McDonald's Happy Meal Megatron was also released in Australia through the Red Rooster restaurant chain. Like the other three toys, it came in four color schemes. Strangely enough, the toy was labeled as "Nightscream" on the plastic baggy it came in.

* '''Beast Changer''' (Deluxe, 2001)
: ''Japanese ID number:'' '''BR-11'''

: A toy version of [[Savage/Noble_(BM)|Savage/Noble]], he transforms from a wolf-creature to a dragon creature, with no robot mode.

: It was later redecoed in show-accurate colours for the Japanese ''Beast Wars Returns'' toyline.

* '''Megahead Megatron''' (Beast Wars Returns, 2005)
: ''Japanese ID number:'' '''BR-12'''

: This is a Japanese-[[exclusive]] redeco of Robots in Disguise [[Megatron_(RID)|Megabolt Megatron]]. Megahead Megatron transforms into a head (its design based on the [[Grand Mal]] with scuttling spider-leg action, opening jaw for chip-eating action, and a hidden spring-loaded missile launcher in its mouth. In robot mode, the launcher swings over his head, placing a battle mask down over his face.

: '''Note:''' ''If one removes the toy's spider-legs in head mode, it fits into the head socket to the [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]] main body. Though this is likely unintented, it is pointed out here as an extra play feature.''

===Robot Masters===
* '''Beast Megatron''' (2004)
: ''Japanese ID number:'' '''RM-02'''

[[Image:24013-m.jpg|left|thumb|150px|"[[Dinobot (BW)|Utahraptor]], maybe in an alternate timeline I'm being less of a jerk right now, but that's just rampant speculation, okay?"]]

: Beast Megatron is a simplified version of the 1996 Ultra ''Beast Wars'' Megatron. Much smaller, it had a very similar transformation and had a sculpt resembling the television series CGI model, but a paint scheme similar to the original toy. He also came with a small laser rifle.

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===Titanium Series===
* '''Beast Wars Megatron''' (3" Robot Master, 2006)

[[Image:Titanium_RM_BWMegatron.jpg|right|thumb|100px|"... my [[Rampage_(BW)|crazed crustacean]], do you realise what this [[Golden_Disk|means]]?"]]

: For the ''Titanium'' series, the initial 3" Megatron toy was based off his 1996 Ultra version. He's kind of squat.

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===Beast Wars 10th Anniversary===

* '''Megatron''' (Beast Wars 10th Anniversary, 2006)

[[Image:BW_10th_Megatron.jpg|left|thumb|250px|"Grape-faces don't give up, they conquer!"]]

: For the 10th Anniversary of ''Beast Wars'', [[Hasbro]] created an all-new Deluxe-size tooling based mostly upon his original 1996 Tyrannosaurus form, but with technorganic detailing. When a [[Cyber Planet Key]] is inserted into his tail, it opens up to reveal a missile launcher.

: He is also packaged with a mini-comic-sized reprinting of [[IDW Publishing]]'s ''[[The Gathering]]'' #1, a small [[Darksyde|''Darksyde'']] ship figurine, and a [[Jungle Planet]] style Cyber Planet Key ''without'' a [[Cyber Key Code]] stamped on it. On its packaging, "Predacon" is misspelled as "Preadacon," but a sticker was placed over it with the proper spelling.

:This mold was [[redeco]]ed and released as [[Cybertron (toyline)|''Cybertron'']] [[Megatron_(Armada)|Megatron]]. It's worth noting that the scuplt for both BW10 leader toys were intentionally designed to blend in with the Jungle Planet aesthetic, "in case" they didn't get a Beast Wars Anniversary release (according to [[Aaron Archer]]'s statements at [[BotCon 2005]]).

* '''Optimus Primal vs. Megatron''' (Ultra 2-pack, 2006)
: ''Japanese ID number:'' '''BWR-01'''

[[Image:BW_Megatron_BWReborn.jpg|thumb|right|200px|Is it me, or does his tail-weapon-thing have teeth?]]

: For the 10th Anniversary of ''Beast Wars'', [[Takara]] retooled the original 1996 Ultra-sized Megatron toy, giving him a new head sculpt and a new paint scheme based upon the appearance of the CGI model used in the ''Beast Wars'' television series.

: The 1996 Ultra-sized Optimus Primal was also retooled and redecoed in the same manner.

: Both figures were released in the US later as a 2-pack Toys-R-Us exclusive.

{{-}}
===Tele Beast Wars===
*'''Megatron''' (Deluxe, 2007)
: ''Japanese ID number:'' '''TM-02'''

: A redeco of ''Robot Masters'' Megatron, with extensive paint details based upon the larger Ultra class ''Beast Wars Reborn'' reissue. He came packed with a DVD of an episode of the japanese ''Beast Wars'' dub.

*'''TM-SP DX Megatron''' (2007)
:An extensive show-accurate redeco of the original Ultra-class Megatron mold ''without'' the recently remolded show-accurate head... the hell?

===Merchandise===
====Metal Monument====
* '''Metal Monument Megatron''' (TAKARA, 1999)
: As the name suggests, the product is a [[die-cast]] statue of Megatron. The head is convertible/removable in order to change the normal one with the battle mask/mutant head. The [[box art]] and the design of the product are both done by [[Hirofumi Ichikawa]].

==Trivia==

[[Image:BWRConcept35.jpg|right|170px|thumb|TM2 Megatron's control art. Look! Spark figure! Painful amounts of detail!]]

*Originally, ''Transmetal 2'' Megatron, along with [[Optimus_Primal|Optimal Optimus]] and [[Tigerhawk_(BW)|Tigerhawk]] were to have small driver-like figures sitting on control chairs located in cockpits on their bodies. These drivers were meant to represent their sparks. But [[Hasbro]] then later realized that kids might confuse these spark representations as drivers controlling the robots, so they were abandoned, but the cockpits remain.
: However, the spark pilot was eventually used in the Japanese release of [[Cryotek]].

* In a bit of little known trivia, Hasbro originally intended Inferno to be the new body for Megatron. According to [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/browse_thread/thread/b334d45514e26ab4/bc8e54e9165e0823?hl=en&lnk=st&q=bob+forward+interview+inferno+megatron&rnum=1#bc8e54e9165e0823 a 1997 interview conducted by fan HooksX], Bob Forward stated: "For a while there Hasbro was planning to make the Inferno toy the new Megatron. We were going to kill Megatron and bring him back as Inferno."

*Throughout the series, Megatron seems to have a mild obsession with creating clones of Dinobot, as seen with the purely biological clone, the cyber raptors and Dinobot 2. Some people never know when to let a relationship go.

*The Japanese dub of Beast Wars chose to interject humor at every available opportunity. Due to this, Megatron's personality and character were taken on a complete U-turn. Instead of being a smooth and charismatic leader, he was a screaming maniac and a bumbling oaf. His most notable character-trait in Japan was that whenever he was fired-upon or startled he would let-out a high-pitched shriek like a '''[[Scorponok (BW)|little girl]]'''.''

*Megatron's initial basic Beast Wars toy is a [[retool]] of [[Iguanus (BW)|Iguanus]] with new alligator and robot heads, and no frill. The screw hole for the frill bracket remains. Both toys were released at roughly the same time.

*The concept art for the original Ultra class figure was largely the same, except in one minor difference: The left arm would have housed an open three clawed hand. The idea of that wouldn't be revisited until the 10th anniversary Deluxe Megatron.
{{-}}

* Aside from [[Silverbolt]], Megatron was the only character in the series to change the phylum of his animal form, first having a T-rex beast mode and then later acquiring a dragon beast mode.

==External links==
*[http://www.tfu.info/1996/Predacon/MegatronGator/megatron.htm Megatron at TFU.info]
*[http://www.tfu.info/2001/Maximal/BeastChanger/beastchanger.htm Beast Changer at TFU.info]

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Scale

2008-01-02T10:35:27Z

60.50.249.190:

[[Image:OptimusSnakeEyes.jpg|right|thumb|300px|And the truck's ''how'' big...?]]
'''Scale''' in ''Transformers'' is, not to put too fine a point on it, screwed.

Virtually no era, franchise, fiction, toyline or other incarnation of ''Transformers'' has presented scale in a logical or believable fashion. (Save perhaps, the 1:24 toys for ''[[Alternators]]'' and ''[[Kiss Players (toyline)|Kiss Players]]'', but they [[Atari Hitotonari|have their own problems]].) Most fans agree that one must either ignore it or accept it, lest they be tempted to explain these problems and in the process fanwank themselves into oblivion.

However, the scale problems of ''Transformers'' still merit description.

==Scale within toylines==
===Toys out of scale with others in the same line===
The early [[Generation 1 (toyline)|Generation 1 toyline]], especially the pre-[[The Transformers: The Movie|movie]] lines, were repackaged and [[redeco]]ed toys from several different Japanese toylines. The crucial point is that the toylines were initially unrelated. The characters ''should'' be in scale to each other as they all have real-world altmodes that (should) pass for real vehicles. However, since ''[[Diaclone]]'' toys were not part of the same line as ''[[Microman]]'' toys, scale issues arose. ''Diaclone'' figures such as [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]], [[Prowl (G1)|Prowl]] and [[Hound (G1)|Hound]] are more-or-less in correct scale to each other, but many of the [[Mini Vehicle]]s from the ''New Microman'' line are clearly far too small by comparison. Even aside from their deformed penny-racer proportions, a [[Bumblebee (G1)|Volkswagen]] Microman toy is disproportionately tiny when compared to a [[Jazz (G1)|Porsche]] Diaclone toy. The disparity becomes even more obvious with [[minibot]]s such as [[Warpath]] (a tank) and [[Seaspray]] (a hovercraft) who should be many times their actual size.

[[Image:DiacloneScale.jpg|left|thumb|350px|That little guy — who comes from the same toyline as all those vehicles — is supposed to be a normal-sized human. Yeeeah.]]

Another glaring scale problem comes in the form of the [[Seeker]]s, who turn into F-15 Eagles which, in real life, are 63.8′ (19.4m) long. Correctly scaled, this would make their robot modes ''colossal'' compared to most Autobots. Similarly, the [[Constructicon (G1)|Constructicon]]s, despite also coming from the ''Diaclone'' line, are too small. Far worse is the other ''Diaclone'' combiner team, the [[Trainbot]]s, who have train engine altmodes, yet their toys are among the ''smallest'' of the ''Diaclone'' releases.

{{-}}
===Toys out of scale within teams===
Even toys specifically designed to interact with each other suffer from this problem. The [[Combaticon]]s are wildly out of scale to each other — [[Blast Off]]'s space shuttle mode should dwarf [[Swindle (G1)|Swindle]], with the others somewhere in between. Instead, they're about the same size. Among the Constructicons, [[Long Haul (G1)|Long Haul]] is designed to look like a gigantic [[Wikipedia:Image:Liebherr_t282_1.jpg|"earth-mover" mining truck]]. He should be able to carry all his teammates in his bed, with some crowding. Similarly, [[Silverbolt (G1)|Silverbolt]] (a Concorde jet) is dramatically undersized compared to his fighter-jet [[Aerialbot (G1)|Aerialbot]] teammates. These scale problems are necessary to avoid misproportioned gestalt forms.

===Same altmode, different sizes===
Other scale problems come from characters who transform into the same (or similar) altmodes but whose toys are different sizes. For example [[Air Raid (G1)|Air Raid]] transforms into an F-15 Eagle, but his toy is half the size of [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]]'s. The same can be said for the Lamborghini Countach [[Breakdown]], who should be the same size as [[Sunstreaker]], not significantly smaller. These discrepancies are also seen in the other [[Scramble City]] combiners with Earth altmodes, whose toys are all smaller than similar earlier toys.

===Toys out of scale with themselves===
[[Triple Changer|Triple-Changers]] create a whole new set of problems. [[Octane]] transforms from a 60′ (20m) tanker truck into a 200′ (65m) jumbo jet. [[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]] transforms from an Earth jet into an entire ''aircraft carrier.''

Even a two-mode toy can have this problem. Twentieth Anniversary Optimus Prime has wheels which are pretty tiny for a Freightliner truck, while his rear hitch section is too thick. These out-of-proportion vehicle parts were necessary to give his robot mode [[show-accuracy|show-accurate]] proportions.

===Toys with roleplay altmodes===
The characters with roleplay altmodes such as Generation 1 [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]], [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]], [[Perceptor (G1)|Perceptor]], or [[Laserbeak (Armada)|''Armada'' Laserbeak]] are scaled to be human-scale (well, kid-scale). Since the [[size changing]] seen in the fiction is not possible for real toys (at least, that's what [[Takara]] ''wants'' us to think), this human-scaling makes in some cases for inordinately large robot modes. E.g., [[Blaster]]'s toy, in robot mode, is taller than most other Transformers.

The opposite problem is seen with [[Megatron (G1) toys|Masterpiece Megatron]], whose robot mode is in scale with Masterpiece Optimus Prime. The result is that, while he may transform into a very accurately-proportioned handgun, it's much larger than the real thing.

===Fanciful altmodes===
Most post-[[The Transformers: The Movie|movie]] Generation 1 characters (for that matter, most post-Generation 1 lines) are difficult to accurately scale, as they generally transform into futuristic or Cybertonian vehicles whose size we don't really know. (Or, indeed, they don't transform into vehicles at all.) The scale of characters such as [[Hot Rod]] or [[Leobreaker]] is fairly arbitrary and can only be estimated by their relative size to other characters in the fiction (although most fiction is highly inconsistent in this regard, see below). Nevertheless, if one assumes that most vehicle altmodes are intended for human passengers, comparing toys such as [[Chromedome]] and [[Lightspeed (Technobot)|Lightspeed]] suggests the combiner scale problem continues.

===Big toys===
It goes without saying that the citybot and planetbot toys (Such as [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]] and [[Unicron]]) are not remotely to scale with normal Transformer toys. While they are indeed ''large'' toys, they're only two to five times bigger than typical Transformer toys, and thus transform into "cities" and "planets" about the (relative) size of a bungalow. The scale problems extend to the details. Some of the citybot toys have visible windows, which are too large for a city, suggesting instead a medium-sized building.

However, it's hard to begrudge Hasbro not offering us a [[Primus]] toy the size of an asteroid. Where would we keep it?

===An exception===
There has only been one notable exception to all of this scale weirdness in the toys: the ''[[Alternators]]'' toyline, where every toy is a 1:24-scale representation of a real car, and thus they are in perfect scale with each other. Unfortunately, for practical reasons this limits the choice of altmodes. A Blast Off (space shuttle) Alternator toy would be 5.1′ (1.6m) long, while a Broadside (aircraft carrier) Alternator toy would be over 40′ (12m).

== Scale within fictions ==
[[Image:TeenyCliff.jpg|left|thumb|Frighteningly toy-accurate.]]

Scale issues abound within the fiction, especially the [[Generation 1 (cartoon)|Generation 1 cartoon]]. A lot can be attributed to animation errors, but some "errors" were deliberate choices, for a variety of reasons.

===Animated scale ≈ toy scale===
Very broadly speaking, the Generation 1 cartoon depicts characters to the same relative scale as the toys (including problems discussed above) when depicting the characters in robot modes. Prime, Megatron and Soundwave are generally animated at the same height, Seekers and Autobot cars slightly shorter (though not as much as the toys are), and [[Minibot]]s smaller yet. However, this was ''far'' from consistent.

===Comic scale ≠ toy scale ===
[[Image:OmegaSupremeintro.jpg|thumb|left|175px|No! Don't wash him in hot water! He'll . . .]]

The [[Generation 1 (Marvel Comics)|Generation 1 Marvel comic]] is notorious for changing the relative sizes of various characters. A single Transformer's size is rarely consistent between artists. For example, Rumble and Frenzy vary in height relative to Soundwave. A panel in the [[Time Wars]] shows [[Goldbug]], [[Ironhide (G1)|Ironhide]], [[Scattershot]], and [[Swoop (G1)|Swoop]] all the same height. [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]], titanic in his [[Command Performances|original appearance]], shrunk steadily in subsequent issues until he was not much taller than the average.

[[Image:Buzzsawyikes4.jpg|thumb|right|. . . too late.]]

{{-}}

===Variation for characterization===
[[Image:Prime has a huge head.jpg|thumb|right|150px|With 20th Anniversary Prime and Smallest Transformers Bumblebee, you can actually recreate this scene.]]

Some scale problems are for the sake of characterization. For example, Optimus Prime is routinely shown as thoroughly gargantuan, several stories in height, and capable of cradling humans in his palm. If he's the size of a real truck, Prime in robot mode should be 25′-30′ (8m-10m) tall, at best. He's drawn large because he's a leader character.

Conversely, [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]] is sometimes shown only a few feet taller than an average human, while in reality he would be 10′-15′ (3m-5m) tall (the Marvel comic actually states he's 15' tall{{fact}}). He's drawn small because he's a human-friendly character, and a junior member of the Autobots.

Those pesky [[Seeker]]s remain a major scale problem; with plane altmodes they would be among the largest everyday Transformers and would ''tower'' over their Autobot adversaries, whereas the animation instead depicts characters such as [[Thundercracker (G1)|Thundercracker]] and [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] as about the same height. Though jets are much larger than cars, they're drawn the same height so the battles appear fair. (And also to make it easier to animate; blocking a shot where characters differ radically in height is difficult.)

In a related vein, [[B.O.T.|sometimes]] Transformers are able to enter human buildings, fitting through their doors and able to run up their staircases without crashing through. A cast that couldn't enter buildings would be grossly inconvenient for telling some stories, so the animators fudge things.

{{-}}

===Transport characters===
[[Image:MakeHoistHuffer.jpg|left|thumb|Definitely ''not'' toy-accurate.]]

Transformers that act as transport for other Transformers will often dramatically change size relative to their compatriots between one shot and the next. These changes in scale are usually attributed to [[Size_changing#Implicit size changing|implicit size changing]] by that portion of the fanbase who like to find explanations for things. The other explanation is that the animators hoped the audience wouldn't notice. (See the [[size changing]] article for more discussion of this topic.)

{{-}}
===Combiner characters===
[[Image:DreamwaveCover6.jpg|right|thumb|200px|Since when is a sedan nine stories tall?]]

[[Combiner]] characters are often depicted as far larger than the sum of their parts. Characters such as [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]] and [[Menasor (G1)|Menasor]] are frequently shown as [[That big green, fire-snortin' lizard|Godzilla]]-sized. Given that their limbs are mere cars and construction vehicles, this is patently absurd. ([[Superion (G1)|Superion]], by contrast, ''would'' be building-sized, given that his torso is a 100-seat jetliner.)

Combiners are also often out-of-scale with other Transformers; a combiner with cars for legs and another car for its torso should be only twice as tall as a one-car Transformer, but they are routinely drawn as five to dozens of times taller than their comrades.

===Pretender characters===
The [[Pretender]]s had interesting scale issues. In the [[Generation 1 (Marvel Comics)|original comic]] the Pretenders appeared fairly literally as their toy counterparts; Transformer-sized robots inside Transformer-sized humanoid shells. The result was that the [[Autobot]] Pretenders (in their shells) were giant-sized humans. This successfully disguised them (for about five seconds, literally) from the Decepticons, and also hid their mechanical nature from aliens. However, it was utterly useless at fooling humans. Further, in [[Guess Who the Mecannibals are Having for Dinner?|one story]], the Pretender [[Cloudburst]] exited his shell, transformed into jet mode, and then his shell (and [[Landmine (G1)|Landmine]]) boarded him as a passenger. The fact that his ''outer'' shell was now smaller than the ''inner'' robot was quietly ignored; one assumes the sort of size-changing mentioned under ''Transport characters,'' above, was involved.

In the U.S. toy commercials, Grimlock, Bumblebee, and Jazz in their new Pretender forms were small enough to fit in Powermaster Optimus Prime's hand. So, at least in that [[micro-continuity]], they were human-sized.

(The Japanese-only series ''[[Masterforce (cartoon)|Super-God Masterforce]]'' featured Pretenders who did not have outer shells but rather an ill-defined holistic transformation which explicitly involved size changing. A vaguely similar explanation appeared in [[Dreamwave Productions|Dreamwave's]] ''[[More Than Meets The Eye]]'' encyclopedia.)

===Small Transformers===
The assorted toys produced over the decades to hit the lowest price point usually include "mini" or "micro" in their name, and usually are depicted as smaller than other Transformers in the fiction as well.

====Micromasters====
The [[Micromaster]]s are roughly human-sized in robot mode, and thus virtually all of them turn into Earth vehicles that are patently incapable of seating human passengers inside them. (The Marvel comic featured ''some'' of them implicitly size-changing to vehicles that could carry human passengers, but this was rare.)

The Dreamwave miniseries ''[[Micromasters]]'' had an explanation, suggesting the Micromasters were Transformers scaled to fit a smaller race of humans. This is met with skepticism from fans, in part because it doesn't explain the scale problems ''within'' the line. All Micromasters are about the same height in robot-mode, but they transform into small cars, large trucks, planes, tanks, and other vehicles that should be vastly different sizes. The alleged "smaller race of humans" must vary in size quite a bit, and only the really teeny ones get to fly the planes . . .

To be fair, there is little indication in the fiction that the Micromasters were ''supposed'' to have consistent scale. They were explictly downsized Transformers, and the scale problems inherent to that resizing were tacitly part of the fiction. Their passenger compartments can thus be regarded as vestigial.

====Mini-Cons====
The [[Mini-Con]]s of the [[Unicron Trilogy]] are another race of small robots who stand approximately the same height as humans and, like the Micromasters before them, are clearly modeled to carry passengers. Really teeny passengers. (Notable exceptions are [[Grindor (Armada)|Grindor]] (in his original body), [[Sureshock]], and [[High Wire]], who become small one-man vehicles.) In this continuity, there's no sign of mini-passengers. The prevailing theory is that Mini-Cons scan normal vehicles and then resize them to fit, retaining now-useless passenger compartments. In the [[Cybertron (cartoon)|''Cybertron'' cartoon]], the [[Recon Mini-Con Team]] have slightly-larger-than-human robot modes, but their alternate modes are large enough for a single human passenger, implying either a little size-changing, or that their cockpits are kinda cramped.

===Big Transformers===
On the other end of the scale, the problems posed by really big Transformers lie in how they interact with normal-sized ones.

====Citybots====
[[Image:EarlyGalvatronTVMagazine1.jpg|right|300px|thumb|If you were ever ''this'' big in the cartoon, ''then'' we might call you a city.]]

The characters [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]], [[Trypticon]], [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]] and [[Scorponok (G1)|Scorponok]] have "city" altmodes (with Fort Max being supposedly the biggest of the four). However, a size at which they could house enough humans, ''let alone'' Transformers, to be reasonably defined as a "city", would suggest a robot-mode that'd make [[Hojoni|Godzilla]] look like a gecko. Suffice to say, they're rarely drawn that big. It doesn't help that these citybots have "small" robots forming vital components. Fortress Maximus and Scorponok both have "human-sized" beings forming their heads. (Fort Max has a [[Cerebros (G1)|middleman]] in there, but still.) [[Full-Tilt]], [[Six Gun]], and [[Slammer]] must logically be building-sized in robot-mode to be in-scale with Trypticon and Metroplex, but, again, are not drawn as such. No fiction, not even the very large depiction in the ''[[Headmasters (cartoon)|Headmasters]]'' cartoon, even ''begins'' to approximate the logical size of a true "citybot". In reality, the grossly-undersized depictions of [[Unicron]] (see below) would be closer to the size of a transformed city. This is ironic, as in Season 3 of the Generation 1 cartoon Unicron requires the eyes of a citybot to replace his own. (Though, "realistically", his eyes should be the size of Texas.) Rare examples of a realistic citybot scale include some Japanese promotional art (e.g., at right).

The cartoon episode "[[Thief in the Night]]" makes a stab at explaining this via an establishing shot that shows Metroplex to be a small sub-section of the "actual" Autobot City, although this was not repeated. Overall, it seems that in Transformer terms, "city" is better read as "building".

Although little fiction to date has featured the Headmaster leaders as cities, in the Japanese cartoons they have been employed in their tertiary modes as starships capable of housing many normal-sized Transformers. Conversely, the Marvel Generation 1 comic depicted Fortress Maximus and Scorponok as merely "large-standard" characters, equal in height to Powermaster Optimus Prime and (in some UK issues) Rodimus Prime. (To be fair, Powermaster Prime was often drawn undersized in the comics).

====Planets and planetbots====
[[Image:Cybertronplanet.jpg|left|250px|thumb|If we're generous and assume Cybertron is only the size of Earth's moon, then the larger visible buildings are roughly the size of Massachusetts stood on end, and you could wedge ''France'' into that gash. (Which would probably improve both Cybertron and France.)]]

Scale when it comes to planets is so fraught it's painful. The problems of describing citybots as "cities" is a thousand times worse if [[Unicron]] is supposed to have a planet alternate mode, and [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] is in turn supposed to be of similar size. Though different stories have compared Cybertron/Primus and Unicron to drastically different real planets, the fact remains that they are ''planets'', and yet are shown in such insane scale to characters as to suggest they are the size of a ''very'' small moon (or [[Darth Vader|space station]]).

To start with, Cybertron was shown throughout Generation 1 with buildings visible from space. Although this was intended to show that the planet was technological in nature, it makes little sense, as the structures would have to be the size of small ''nations'' to be visible. If the buildings were in fact supposed to be skyscrapers (or even ''2000 A.D.'' style arcologies) sized for 30' (10m) robots, Cybertron would still be less than 100 miles (150km) across. By comparison, the rather [http://www.starwars.com/databank/location/coruscant/index.html Coruscant]-like shots of Cybertron in ''[[Beast Machines (cartoon)|Beast Machines]]'' may be less distinctive or "Cybertronian", but are ''far'' more believable.

{{-}}
[[Image:UnicronEatsGalvyMmmm.jpg|right|thumb|Either [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvy]] is humungo, or [[Lithone]] is ''tiiinyyy!!!'']]

Unicron is a more extreme problem. Assuming no [[size changing]] occurs during his transformation, in robot mode he would be so massive that any shot featuring a recognizable ''part'' of his body, let alone the whole thing, would be on a scale such that no normal Transformer would even be visible. Scenes in the ''[[The Transformers: The Movie|Movie]]'' in which he directly interacts with normal Cybertronians are blatantly absurd (though totally phat-looking). Shots such as the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobot]]s fleeing his grasping hand, a starship penetrating his eye, or ''especially'' him picking up Galvatron between his fingers before swallowing him, break any concept of "planetary" scale. If Unicron is the size of a planet, his hands would be the size of continents. This would make Galvatron (in the image to the right) the size of Great Britain.

There is no explanation for any of this. Just go with it.

The depiction of Unicron's scale in ''[[Armada]]'' was (debatably) a slight improvement, in that physical interaction with normal beings was not attempted. He preferred instead to communicate with normal Transformers by possessing [[Sideways|one of them]]. Nevertheless, shots featuring [[Thrust (Armada)|Thrust]] and [[Megatron (Armada)|Megatron]] standing on his neck are still ''farcically'' out of scale.

===An exception: The 2007 ''Transformers'' movie===
[[Image:Moviescale1.jpg|thumb|left|250px|Scale is absolutely not an issue in the movie. However, [[Show-accuracy]] is.]]

The creators of the [[Transformers (2007)|live-action movie]] took great pains to avoid out-of-scale issues. (Well, greater than previous franchises.) This is sometimes reflected in the choice of vehicle or the design of their robot mode. E.g., [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] is an extended-hood cab in order to have more mass to make a taller robot mode with. [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]'s robot mode is nearly as wide as it is tall, with shorter, digitigrade legs, so the massive jet-former won't end up twice as tall as Optimus. In the case of [[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]], his huge alternate mode simply results in a hulking, towering robot mode.

There are still minor scale issues to be found, though. For example, Optimus Prime can hold both [[Sam Witwicky|Sam]] and [[Mikaela Banes|Mikaela]] in one hand. Comparing this shot with when he picks up [[Archibald Witwicky]]'s glasses a few minutes later, it seems the glasses have lenses a foot (30cm) in diameter. This is a visual cheat so the glasses are visible to the audience. There's also debate about whether [[Frenzy (Movie)|Frenzy]]'s head could compact itself into a slim mobile phone.

====The movie toys====
For the movie toys, most of the Deluxe- and Voyager-class toys are to the same scale (about 1:35), but Starscream, Bonecrusher, Deluxe Brawl, and Blackout are too small. These four exceptions are, however, ''roughly'' in scale with each other (at about 1:65). The movie toy line can thus be interpreted as having two distinct scales.

{{-}}

===Scale problems and size-changing===
Some fans interpret the many otherwise-unexplained scale issues above to all be the result of [[size changing]], but this is debatable. If virtually all characters use mass-shifting (or whatever) to gain or drop a few feet of height for no logical reason, the technology would be pointlessly mundane. There's also no known reason for (e.g.) the Seekers to choose to get ''shorter'' when going into battle. A to-scale Starscream in robot mode could kick Bumblebee around like a soccer ball. There's simply no positive evidence that size-changing is so widespread.

==Official Scale Guides ==
[[Image: tfcartoonscaleguideic1.jpg|left|thumb|Official Scale Guides]] Animators and comic book artists were given official scale guides that showed relative and in some cases absolute heights. Some of these were published in the character model guide ''[[Transformers:_The_Ark|Transformers: The Ark]]''. Though they were not consistently followed, they give some insight into the official heights of characters in the G1 Marvel series and the G1 cartoon. Even in this format, there are scale problems. Devastator in the season one scale guide was approximately 2.5 times the height of Optimus Prime, but by season two he was somewhat less than 2 times Prime's height.

==Show scale vs. toy scale==
[[Image:Omegagrab.jpg|right|thumb|I know he's meant to be ''big'', but holy crap, dude!]]Some characters have great discrepancies between their cartoon scale and their toy scale. "Giant" characters such as [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]] are, even aside from any [[size changing]] for transport purposes, clearly not in the same scale in toy form as they are depicted on screen. [[Mini-Cassette|Cassette characters]] such as [[Rumble (G1)|Rumble]]'s toys are roughly the same height as most [[Minibot]]s, while in the show they are usually portrayed as human-sized.

[[Hot Rod|Rodimus Prime]] and [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] are usually shown to be of a fairly similar height (although Magnus is much bulkier), whereas there is a considerable difference between the size of their toys. By the same token, Rodimus is always depicted as being an equal stature to his opposing leader [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]], whereas the toy Galvatron is instead the same size as Magnus. Optimus Prime is also usually shown as only a head or so shorter than Magnus (if that), which gets very strange when you realise that a redco of Prime's toy forms but a small part of Magnus' robot mode.

[[Image:ShrinkingHeavy.jpg|left|thumb|I lost thirty tons, thanks to the Jump-Cut! Thank you, Jump-Cut!]]

[[Metroplex (Cybertron)|''Cybertron'' Metroplex]] and the other citizens of [[Gigantion]] are depicted as gargantuan in animation, whereas the toys are merely among the normal boxed size-classes. (Although, the Japanese ''[[Galaxy Force]]'' release, dubbed "Megalo Convoy", included an exclusive [[redeco]] of the [[Legends of Cybertron]] [[Optimus Prime (Armada)|Optimus Prime]] to indicate the "correct" scale.) Within the animation, though, this causes problems with their Mini-Con partners, who are depicted as human-sized in robot mode by themselves, but when directly interacting with their larger partners, have their relative size in relation to the toy . . . meaning some temporarily gigantic Mini-Cons!

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== ''Beast Era'' scale ==
[[Image:RattrapLOVEScheetor.jpg|thumb|right|I'm tellin' ya, ''all'' da rats in Brooklyn are dis big!]]

In the [[Beast Era]], scale is not such a large issue, although it does crop up in less obvious ways.

===Real world scale===
Although the Beast Warriors are consistent day-to-day in their relative size to each other, their scale in relation to their real-world animal equivalents is more complex. While the bug characters such as [[Waspinator]] and [[Inferno (BW)|Inferno]] are obviously scaled-up, ''most'' of the characters are subtly not quite the right size.

[[Cheetor (BW)|Cheetor]] and [[Tigatron]] are the only characters shown standing next to real members of their species, and they are both the same size as the animals in question. {{storylink|Beast Wars, Part 1}} {{storylink|Law of the Jungle}} This makes them (and Cheetor in particular, since he's around more) the measuring sticks for the other characters. Therefore, [[Rattrap]] is a monstrously huge rat, the size of a large dog (indeed, the writers stated{{fact}} that Season 1 Rattrap was 5' (1.5m) tall). [[Dinobot]] is considerably larger than a real velociraptor, closer in size to a ''[[Wikipedia: Utahraptor|Utahraptor]]''. [[Rhinox (BW)|Rhinox]] is a rather small rhinoceros, and [[Optimus Primal]] is a roughly normal gorilla. However, [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]] is a positively dwarfish specimen of t-rex, closer to a ''[[Wikipedia: Nanotyrannus|Nanotyrannus]]''.

In their interactions with (adult) [[protohuman]]s, the Transformer characters seem between twice and three times their height. Considering our ancestors really were smaller than modern humans, this issue is not extremely wrong, but it deserves noting.

=== Scale relative to Generation 1 ===
[[Image:Beastwarriors scale.jpg|thumb|left|Beast Megatron's size vs. Optimus Prime in America... and Japan. I guess the Blasty Zone adds on a few tons to [[Beast Era]] characters]]

Between the [[Great War]] and the Beast Era, the majority of the Cybertronian race considerably downgraded in size, apparently in the [[Maximal Upgrade]] Program. (A necessary premise of the show, as the Beast Warriors are supposed to transform into roughly-normal-sized animals, not vehicles.) When entering the ''[[Ark (G1)|Ark]]'', the Beast Warriors are quite small compared to the dormant Generation 1 characters, especially [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]. One can easily imagine them sitting inside the passenger compartments of the Generation 1 characters. When interacting with the Autobot technology of the ''Ark'' and the [[Autobot shuttle]], the Maximals are visibly dealing with equipment grossly oversized for them (standing on the chairs to reach the controls, turning knobs the size of their heads), but overall manage okay. This does not always apply, as the ''Ark'' also seems to feature some human-sized control panels, such as the computer in [[Master Blaster]]. Without any height booster, Blackarachnia can interface well with the controls. A similar situation crops up in Season 1 of the original cartoon, such as when Chip Chase can easily type on and manipulate Teletraan-1.

On the other hand, ''[[Robot Masters]]'' depicted Generation 1 and ''Beast Wars'' characters like Optimus Prime and Optimus Primal as being exactly the same size. Lovely. It's possible that passage through the [[Blasty Zone]] may somehow [[Wikipedia:Boom tube#Later Additions to the Concept|account for this discrepancy]].

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=== Toy scale vs. cartoon scale ===
[[Image:Beastwarsmaxgroup.jpg|right|thumb|350px|Airrazor picks the Ultra-class figure.]]

The Season 1 cast of ''Beast Wars'' were not designed with the same relative sizes as the toyline. The most noticeable problem is Optimus Primal, who has an Ultra toy (almost twice the size of the next-largest Maximal toys), while in the show he's shorter than both Dinobot and Rhinox. Further, Cheetor and Tigatron's toys use the same mold, but Tigatron is a head taller in the show (both because tigers are larger than cheetahs, and because Cheetor is "a kid").

From Season 2 onwards, new characters, and new bodies for old characters, became more consistent in size (and appearance) with their toys.

The ''[[Beast Machines (toyline)|Beast Machines]]''' toyline was ''far'' worse in size discrepancies with the cartoon. Of the Maximals featured in the show, the tallest character, [[Silverbolt (Fuzor)|Silverbolt]], is the ''shortest'' toy, while the diminutive [[Nightscream (BM)|Nightscream]] is a massive Ultra-class toy. And, sadly, the most show-accurate toy, Air Attack [[Optimus Primal]], is a ''ginormous'' Supreme figure, towering over the other toys. (Weirdly, the King Kong-like size of this toy became canon [[Prime_Spark|in one specific]] [[micro-continuity]].)

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==External links==
*[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/msg/6db411e03e75a342?dmode=source Estimated "real-life" heights for several Transformers, derived from the size of their alt-modes, archived from alt.toys.transformers on groups.google.com]
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[[Category: Biology]]
[[Category: Fandom]]
[[Category: Planets]]
[[Category: Technology]]
[[Category: Things that don't exist]]
[[Category: Toys]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Scale

2008-01-02T10:34:50Z

60.50.249.190:

[[Image:OptimusSnakeEyes.jpg|right|thumb|300px|And the truck's ''how'' big...?]]
'''Scale''' in ''Transformers'' is, not to put too fine a point on it, screwed.

Virtually no era, franchise, fiction, toyline or other incarnation of ''Transformers'' has presented scale in a logical or believable fashion. (Save perhaps, the 1:24 toys for ''[[Alternators]]'' and ''[[Kiss Players (toyline)|Kiss Players]]'', but they [[Atari Hitotonari|have their own problems]].) Most fans agree that one must either ignore it or accept it, lest they be tempted to explain these problems and in the process fanwank themselves into oblivion.

However, the scale problems of ''Transformers'' still merit description.

==Scale within toylines==
===Toys out of scale with others in the same line===
The early [[Generation 1 (toyline)|Generation 1 toyline]], especially the pre-[[The Transformers: The Movie|movie]] lines, were repackaged and [[redeco]]ed toys from several different Japanese toylines. The crucial point is that the toylines were initially unrelated. The characters ''should'' be in scale to each other as they all have real-world altmodes that (should) pass for real vehicles. However, since ''[[Diaclone]]'' toys were not part of the same line as ''[[Microman]]'' toys, scale issues arose. ''Diaclone'' figures such as [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]], [[Prowl (G1)|Prowl]] and [[Hound (G1)|Hound]] are more-or-less in correct scale to each other, but many of the [[Mini Vehicle]]s from the ''New Microman'' line are clearly far too small by comparison. Even aside from their deformed penny-racer proportions, a [[Bumblebee (G1)|Volkswagen]] Microman toy is disproportionately tiny when compared to a [[Jazz (G1)|Porsche]] Diaclone toy. The disparity becomes even more obvious with [[minibot]]s such as [[Warpath]] (a tank) and [[Seaspray]] (a hovercraft) who should be many times their actual size.

[[Image:DiacloneScale.jpg|left|thumb|350px|That little guy — who comes from the same toyline as all those vehicles — is supposed to be a normal-sized human. Yeeeah.]]

Another glaring scale problem comes in the form of the [[Seeker]]s, who turn into F-15 Eagles which, in real life, are 63.8′ (19.4m) long. Correctly scaled, this would make their robot modes ''colossal'' compared to most Autobots. Similarly, the [[Constructicon (G1)|Constructicon]]s, despite also coming from the ''Diaclone'' line, are too small. Far worse is the other ''Diaclone'' combiner team, the [[Trainbot]]s, who have train engine altmodes, yet their toys are among the ''smallest'' of the ''Diaclone'' releases.

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===Toys out of scale within teams===
Even toys specifically designed to interact with each other suffer from this problem. The [[Combaticon]]s are wildly out of scale to each other — [[Blast Off]]'s space shuttle mode should dwarf [[Swindle (G1)|Swindle]], with the others somewhere in between. Instead, they're about the same size. Among the Constructicons, [[Long Haul (G1)|Long Haul]] is designed to look like a gigantic [[Wikipedia:Image:Liebherr_t282_1.jpg|"earth-mover" mining truck]]. He should be able to carry all his teammates in his bed, with some crowding. Similarly, [[Silverbolt (G1)|Silverbolt]] (a Concorde jet) is dramatically undersized compared to his fighter-jet [[Aerialbot (G1)|Aerialbot]] teammates. These scale problems are necessary to avoid misproportioned gestalt forms.

===Same altmode, different sizes===
Other scale problems come from characters who transform into the same (or similar) altmodes but whose toys are different sizes. For example [[Air Raid (G1)|Air Raid]] transforms into an F-15 Eagle, but his toy is half the size of [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]]'s. The same can be said for the Lamborghini Countach [[Breakdown]], who should be the same size as [[Sunstreaker]], not significantly smaller. These discrepancies are also seen in the other [[Scramble City]] combiners with Earth altmodes, whose toys are all smaller than similar earlier toys.

===Toys out of scale with themselves===
[[Triple Changer|Triple-Changers]] create a whole new set of problems. [[Octane]] transforms from a 60′ (20m) tanker truck into a 200′ (65m) jumbo jet. [[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]] transforms from an Earth jet into an entire ''aircraft carrier.''

Even a two-mode toy can have this problem. Twentieth Anniversary Optimus Prime has wheels which are pretty tiny for a Freightliner truck, while his rear hitch section is too thick. These out-of-proportion vehicle parts were necessary to give his robot mode [[show-accuracy|show-accurate]] proportions.

===Toys with roleplay altmodes===
The characters with roleplay altmodes such as Generation 1 [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]], [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]], [[Perceptor (G1)|Perceptor]], or [[Laserbeak (Armada)|''Armada'' Laserbeak]] are scaled to be human-scale (well, kid-scale). Since the [[size changing]] seen in the fiction is not possible for real toys (at least, that's what [[Takara]] ''wants'' us to think), this human-scaling makes in some cases for inordinately large robot modes. E.g., [[Blaster]]'s toy, in robot mode, is taller than most other Transformers.

The opposite problem is seen with [[Megatron (G1) toys|Masterpiece Megatron]], whose robot mode is in scale with Masterpiece Optimus Prime. The result is that, while he may transform into a very accurately-proportioned handgun, it's much larger than the real thing.

===Fanciful altmodes===
Most post-[[The Transformers: The Movie|movie]] Generation 1 characters (for that matter, most post-Generation 1 lines) are difficult to accurately scale, as they generally transform into futuristic or Cybertonian vehicles whose size we don't really know. (Or, indeed, they don't transform into vehicles at all.) The scale of characters such as [[Hot Rod]] or [[Leobreaker]] is fairly arbitrary and can only be estimated by their relative size to other characters in the fiction (although most fiction is highly inconsistent in this regard, see below). Nevertheless, if one assumes that most vehicle altmodes are intended for human passengers, comparing toys such as [[Chromedome]] and [[Lightspeed (Technobot)|Lightspeed]] suggests the combiner scale problem continues.

===Big toys===
It goes without saying that the citybot and planetbot toys (Such as [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]] and [[Unicron]]) are not remotely to scale with normal Transformer toys. While they are indeed ''large'' toys, they're only two to five times bigger than typical Transformer toys, and thus transform into "cities" and "planets" about the (relative) size of a bungalow. The scale problems extend to the details. Some of the citybot toys have visible windows, which are too large for a city, suggesting instead a medium-sized building.

However, it's hard to begrudge Hasbro not offering us a [[Primus]] toy the size of an asteroid. Where would we keep it?

===An exception===
There has only been one notable exception to all of this scale weirdness in the toys: the ''[[Alternators]]'' toyline, where every toy is a 1:24-scale representation of a real car, and thus they are in perfect scale with each other. Unfortunately, for practical reasons this limits the choice of altmodes. A Blast Off (space shuttle) Alternator toy would be 5.1′ (1.6m) long, while a Broadside (aircraft carrier) Alternator toy would be over 40′ (12m).

== Scale within fictions ==
[[Image:TeenyCliff.jpg|left|thumb|Frighteningly toy-accurate.]]

Scale issues abound within the fiction, especially the [[Generation 1 (cartoon)|Generation 1 cartoon]]. A lot can be attributed to animation errors, but some "errors" were deliberate choices, for a variety of reasons.

===Animated scale ≈ toy scale===
Very broadly speaking, the Generation 1 cartoon depicts characters to the same relative scale as the toys (including problems discussed above) when depicting the characters in robot modes. Prime, Megatron and Soundwave are generally animated at the same height, Seekers and Autobot cars slightly shorter (though not as much as the toys are), and [[Minibot]]s smaller yet. However, this was ''far'' from consistent.

===Comic scale ≠ toy scale ===
[[Image:OmegaSupremeintro.jpg|thumb|left|175px|No! Don't wash him in hot water! He'll . . .]]

The [[Generation 1 (Marvel Comics)|Generation 1 Marvel comic]] is notorious for changing the relative sizes of various characters. A single Transformer's size is rarely consistent between artists. For example, Rumble and Frenzy vary in height relative to Soundwave. A panel in the [[Time Wars]] shows [[Goldbug]], [[Ironhide (G1)|Ironhide]], [[Scattershot]], and [[Swoop (G1)|Swoop]] all the same height. [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]], titanic in his [[Command Performances|original appearance]], shrunk steadily in subsequent issues until he was not much taller than the average.

[[Image:Buzzsawyikes4.jpg|thumb|right|. . . too late.]]

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===Variation for characterization===
[[Image:Prime has a huge head.jpg|thumb|right|150px|With 20th Anniversary Prime and Smallest Transformers Bumblebee, you can actually recreate this scene.]]

Some scale problems are for the sake of characterization. For example, Optimus Prime is routinely shown as thoroughly gargantuan, several stories in height, and capable of cradling humans in his palm. If he's the size of a real truck, Prime in robot mode should be 25′-30′ (8m-10m) tall, at best. He's drawn large because he's a leader character.

Conversely, [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]] is sometimes shown only a few feet taller than an average human, while in reality he would be 10′-15′ (3m-5m) tall (the Marvel comic actually states he's 15' tall{{fact}}). He's drawn small because he's a human-friendly character, and a junior member of the Autobots.

Those pesky [[Seeker]]s remain a major scale problem; with plane altmodes they would be among the largest everyday Transformers and would ''tower'' over their Autobot adversaries, whereas the animation instead depicts characters such as [[Thundercracker (G1)|Thundercracker]] and [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] as about the same height. Though jets are much larger than cars, they're drawn the same height so the battles appear fair. (And also to make it easier to animate; blocking a shot where characters differ radically in height is difficult.)

In a related vein, [[B.O.T.|sometimes]] Transformers are able to enter human buildings, fitting through their doors and able to run up their staircases without crashing through. A cast that couldn't enter buildings would be grossly inconvenient for telling some stories, so the animators fudge things.

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===Transport characters===
[[Image:MakeHoistHuffer.jpg|left|thumb|Definitely ''not'' toy-accurate.]]

Transformers that act as transport for other Transformers will often dramatically change size relative to their compatriots between one shot and the next. These changes in scale are usually attributed to [[Size_changing#Implicit size changing|implicit size changing]] by that portion of the fanbase who like to find explanations for things. The other explanation is that the animators hoped the audience wouldn't notice. (See the [[size changing]] article for more discussion of this topic.)

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===Combiner characters===
[[Image:DreamwaveCover6.jpg|right|thumb|200px|Since when is a sedan nine stories tall?]]

[[Combiner]] characters are often depicted as far larger than the sum of their parts. Characters such as [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]] and [[Menasor (G1)|Menasor]] are frequently shown as [[That big green, fire-snortin' lizard|Godzilla]]-sized. Given that their limbs are mere cars and construction vehicles, this is patently absurd. ([[Superion (G1)|Superion]], by contrast, ''would'' be building-sized, given that his torso is a 100-seat jetliner.)

Combiners are also often out-of-scale with other Transformers; a combiner with cars for legs and another car for its torso should be only twice as tall as a one-car Transformer, but they are routinely drawn as five to dozens of times taller than their comrades.

===Pretender characters===
The [[Pretender]]s had interesting scale issues. In the [[Generation 1 (Marvel Comics)|original comic]] the Pretenders appeared fairly literally as their toy counterparts; Transformer-sized robots inside Transformer-sized humanoid shells. The result was that the [[Autobot]] Pretenders (in their shells) were giant-sized humans. This successfully disguised them (for about five seconds, literally) from the Decepticons, and also hid their mechanical nature from aliens. However, it was utterly useless at fooling humans. Further, in [[Guess Who the Mecannibals are Having for Dinner?|one story]], the Pretender [[Cloudburst]] exited his shell, transformed into jet mode, and then his shell (and [[Landmine (G1)|Landmine]]) boarded him as a passenger. The fact that his ''outer'' shell was now smaller than the ''inner'' robot was quietly ignored; one assumes the sort of size-changing mentioned under ''Transport characters,'' above, was involved.

In the U.S. toy commercials, Grimlock, Bumblebee, and Jazz in their new Pretender forms were small enough to fit in Powermaster Optimus Prime's hand. So, at least in that [[micro-continuity]], they were human-sized.

(The Japanese-only series ''[[Masterforce (cartoon)|Super-God Masterforce]]'' featured Pretenders who did not have outer shells but rather an ill-defined holistic transformation which explicitly involved size changing. A vaguely similar explanation appeared in [[Dreamwave Productions|Dreamwave's]] ''[[More Than Meets The Eye]]'' encyclopedia.)

===Small Transformers===
The assorted toys produced over the decades to hit the lowest price point usually include "mini" or "micro" in their name, and usually are depicted as smaller than other Transformers in the fiction as well.

====Micromasters====
The [[Micromaster]]s are roughly human-sized in robot mode, and thus virtually all of them turn into Earth vehicles that are patently incapable of seating human passengers inside them. (The Marvel comic featured ''some'' of them implicitly size-changing to vehicles that could carry human passengers, but this was rare.)

The Dreamwave miniseries ''[[Micromasters]]'' had an explanation, suggesting the Micromasters were Transformers scaled to fit a smaller race of humans. This is met with skepticism from fans, in part because it doesn't explain the scale problems ''within'' the line. All Micromasters are about the same height in robot-mode, but they transform into small cars, large trucks, planes, tanks, and other vehicles that should be vastly different sizes. The alleged "smaller race of humans" must vary in size quite a bit, and only the really teeny ones get to fly the planes . . .

To be fair, there is little indication in the fiction that the Micromasters were ''supposed'' to have consistent scale. They were explictly downsized Transformers, and the scale problems inherent to that resizing were tacitly part of the fiction. Their passenger compartments can thus be regarded as vestigial.

====Mini-Cons====
The [[Mini-Con]]s of the [[Unicron Trilogy]] are another race of small robots who stand approximately the same height as humans and, like the Micromasters before them, are clearly modeled to carry passengers. Really teeny passengers. (Notable exceptions are [[Grindor (Armada)|Grindor]] (in his original body), [[Sureshock]], and [[High Wire]], who become small one-man vehicles.) In this continuity, there's no sign of mini-passengers. The prevailing theory is that Mini-Cons scan normal vehicles and then resize them to fit, retaining now-useless passenger compartments. In the [[Cybertron (cartoon)|''Cybertron'' cartoon]], the [[Recon Mini-Con Team]] have slightly-larger-than-human robot modes, but their alternate modes are large enough for a single human passenger, implying either a little size-changing, or that their cockpits are kinda cramped.

===Big Transformers===
On the other end of the scale, the problems posed by really big Transformers lie in how they interact with normal-sized ones.

====Citybots====
[[Image:EarlyGalvatronTVMagazine1.jpg|right|300px|thumb|If you were ever ''this'' big in the cartoon, ''then'' we might call you a city.]]

The characters [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]], [[Trypticon]], [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]] and [[Scorponok (G1)|Scorponok]] have "city" altmodes (with Fort Max being supposedly the biggest of the four). However, a size at which they could house enough humans, ''let alone'' Transformers, to be reasonably defined as a "city", would suggest a robot-mode that'd make [[Hojoni|Godzilla]] look like a gecko. Suffice to say, they're rarely drawn that big. It doesn't help that these citybots have "small" robots forming vital components. Fortress Maximus and Scorponok both have "human-sized" beings forming their heads. (Fort Max has a [[Cerebros (G1)|middleman]] in there, but still.) [[Full-Tilt]], [[Six Gun]], and [[Slammer]] must logically be building-sized in robot-mode to be in-scale with Trypticon and Metroplex, but, again, are not drawn as such. No fiction, not even the very large depiction in the ''[[Headmasters (cartoon)|Headmasters]]'' cartoon, even ''begins'' to approximate the logical size of a true "citybot". In reality, the grossly-undersized depictions of [[Unicron]] (see below) would be closer to the size of a transformed city. This is ironic, as in Season 3 of the Generation 1 cartoon Unicron requires the eyes of a citybot to replace his own. (Though, "realistically", his eyes should be the size of Texas.) Rare examples of a realistic citybot scale include some Japanese promotional art (e.g., at right).

The cartoon episode "[[Thief in the Night]]" makes a stab at explaining this via an establishing shot that shows Metroplex to be a small sub-section of the "actual" Autobot City, although this was not repeated. Overall, it seems that in Transformer terms, "city" is better read as "building".

Although little fiction to date has featured the Headmaster leaders as cities, in the Japanese cartoons they have been employed in their tertiary modes as starships capable of housing many normal-sized Transformers. Conversely, the Marvel Generation 1 comic depicted Fortress Maximus and Scorponok as merely "large-standard" characters, equal in height to Powermaster Optimus Prime and (in some UK issues) Rodimus Prime. (To be fair, Powermaster Prime was often drawn undersized in the comics).

====Planets and planetbots====
[[Image:Cybertronplanet.jpg|left|250px|thumb|If we're generous and assume Cybertron is only the size of Earth's moon, then the larger visible buildings are roughly the size of Massachusetts stood on end, and you could wedge ''France'' into that gash. (Which would probably improve both Cybertron and France.)]]

Scale when it comes to planets is so fraught it's painful. The problems of describing citybots as "cities" is a thousand times worse if [[Unicron]] is supposed to have a planet alternate mode, and [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] is in turn supposed to be of similar size. Though different stories have compared Cybertron/Primus and Unicron to drastically different real planets, the fact remains that they are ''planets'', and yet are shown in such insane scale to characters as to suggest they are the size of a ''very'' small moon (or [[Darth Vader|space station]]).

To start with, Cybertron was shown throughout Generation 1 with buildings visible from space. Although this was intended to show that the planet was technological in nature, it makes little sense, as the structures would have to be the size of small ''nations'' to be visible. If the buildings were in fact supposed to be skyscrapers (or even ''2000 A.D.'' style arcologies) sized for 30' (10m) robots, Cybertron would still be less than 100 miles (150km) across. By comparison, the rather [http://www.starwars.com/databank/location/coruscant/index.html Coruscant]-like shots of Cybertron in ''[[Beast Machines (cartoon)|Beast Machines]]'' may be less distinctive or "Cybertronian", but are ''far'' more believable.

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[[Image:UnicronEatsGalvyMmmm.jpg|right|thumb|Either [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvy]] is humungo, or [[Lithone]] is ''tiiinyyy!!!'']]

Unicron is a more extreme problem. Assuming no [[size changing]] occurs during his transformation, in robot mode he would be so massive that any shot featuring a recognizable ''part'' of his body, let alone the whole thing, would be on a scale such that no normal Transformer would even be visible. Scenes in the ''[[The Transformers: The Movie|Movie]]'' in which he directly interacts with normal Cybertronians are blatantly absurd (though totally phat-looking). Shots such as the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobot]]s fleeing his grasping hand, a starship penetrating his eye, or ''especially'' him picking up Galvatron between his fingers before swallowing him, break any concept of "planetary" scale. If Unicron is the size of a planet, his hands would be the size of continents. This would make Galvatron (in the image to the right) the size of Great Britain.

There is no explanation for any of this. Just go with it.

The depiction of Unicron's scale in ''[[Armada]]'' was (debatably) a slight improvement, in that physical interaction with normal beings was not attempted. He preferred instead to communicate with normal Transformers by possessing [[Sideways|one of them]]. Nevertheless, shots featuring [[Thrust (Armada)|Thrust]] and [[Megatron (Armada)|Megatron]] standing on his neck are still ''farcically'' out of scale.

===An exception: The 2007 ''Transformers'' movie===
[[Image:Moviescale1.jpg|thumb|left|250px|Scale is absolutely not an issue in the movie. However, [[Show-Accuracy]] is.]]

The creators of the [[Transformers (2007)|live-action movie]] took great pains to avoid out-of-scale issues. (Well, greater than previous franchises.) This is sometimes reflected in the choice of vehicle or the design of their robot mode. E.g., [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] is an extended-hood cab in order to have more mass to make a taller robot mode with. [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]'s robot mode is nearly as wide as it is tall, with shorter, digitigrade legs, so the massive jet-former won't end up twice as tall as Optimus. In the case of [[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]], his huge alternate mode simply results in a hulking, towering robot mode.

There are still minor scale issues to be found, though. For example, Optimus Prime can hold both [[Sam Witwicky|Sam]] and [[Mikaela Banes|Mikaela]] in one hand. Comparing this shot with when he picks up [[Archibald Witwicky]]'s glasses a few minutes later, it seems the glasses have lenses a foot (30cm) in diameter. This is a visual cheat so the glasses are visible to the audience. There's also debate about whether [[Frenzy (Movie)|Frenzy]]'s head could compact itself into a slim mobile phone.

====The movie toys====
For the movie toys, most of the Deluxe- and Voyager-class toys are to the same scale (about 1:35), but Starscream, Bonecrusher, Deluxe Brawl, and Blackout are too small. These four exceptions are, however, ''roughly'' in scale with each other (at about 1:65). The movie toy line can thus be interpreted as having two distinct scales.

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===Scale problems and size-changing===
Some fans interpret the many otherwise-unexplained scale issues above to all be the result of [[size changing]], but this is debatable. If virtually all characters use mass-shifting (or whatever) to gain or drop a few feet of height for no logical reason, the technology would be pointlessly mundane. There's also no known reason for (e.g.) the Seekers to choose to get ''shorter'' when going into battle. A to-scale Starscream in robot mode could kick Bumblebee around like a soccer ball. There's simply no positive evidence that size-changing is so widespread.

==Official Scale Guides ==
[[Image: tfcartoonscaleguideic1.jpg|left|thumb|Official Scale Guides]] Animators and comic book artists were given official scale guides that showed relative and in some cases absolute heights. Some of these were published in the character model guide ''[[Transformers:_The_Ark|Transformers: The Ark]]''. Though they were not consistently followed, they give some insight into the official heights of characters in the G1 Marvel series and the G1 cartoon. Even in this format, there are scale problems. Devastator in the season one scale guide was approximately 2.5 times the height of Optimus Prime, but by season two he was somewhat less than 2 times Prime's height.

==Show scale vs. toy scale==
[[Image:Omegagrab.jpg|right|thumb|I know he's meant to be ''big'', but holy crap, dude!]]Some characters have great discrepancies between their cartoon scale and their toy scale. "Giant" characters such as [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]] are, even aside from any [[size changing]] for transport purposes, clearly not in the same scale in toy form as they are depicted on screen. [[Mini-Cassette|Cassette characters]] such as [[Rumble (G1)|Rumble]]'s toys are roughly the same height as most [[Minibot]]s, while in the show they are usually portrayed as human-sized.

[[Hot Rod|Rodimus Prime]] and [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] are usually shown to be of a fairly similar height (although Magnus is much bulkier), whereas there is a considerable difference between the size of their toys. By the same token, Rodimus is always depicted as being an equal stature to his opposing leader [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]], whereas the toy Galvatron is instead the same size as Magnus. Optimus Prime is also usually shown as only a head or so shorter than Magnus (if that), which gets very strange when you realise that a redco of Prime's toy forms but a small part of Magnus' robot mode.

[[Image:ShrinkingHeavy.jpg|left|thumb|I lost thirty tons, thanks to the Jump-Cut! Thank you, Jump-Cut!]]

[[Metroplex (Cybertron)|''Cybertron'' Metroplex]] and the other citizens of [[Gigantion]] are depicted as gargantuan in animation, whereas the toys are merely among the normal boxed size-classes. (Although, the Japanese ''[[Galaxy Force]]'' release, dubbed "Megalo Convoy", included an exclusive [[redeco]] of the [[Legends of Cybertron]] [[Optimus Prime (Armada)|Optimus Prime]] to indicate the "correct" scale.) Within the animation, though, this causes problems with their Mini-Con partners, who are depicted as human-sized in robot mode by themselves, but when directly interacting with their larger partners, have their relative size in relation to the toy . . . meaning some temporarily gigantic Mini-Cons!

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== ''Beast Era'' scale ==
[[Image:RattrapLOVEScheetor.jpg|thumb|right|I'm tellin' ya, ''all'' da rats in Brooklyn are dis big!]]

In the [[Beast Era]], scale is not such a large issue, although it does crop up in less obvious ways.

===Real world scale===
Although the Beast Warriors are consistent day-to-day in their relative size to each other, their scale in relation to their real-world animal equivalents is more complex. While the bug characters such as [[Waspinator]] and [[Inferno (BW)|Inferno]] are obviously scaled-up, ''most'' of the characters are subtly not quite the right size.

[[Cheetor (BW)|Cheetor]] and [[Tigatron]] are the only characters shown standing next to real members of their species, and they are both the same size as the animals in question. {{storylink|Beast Wars, Part 1}} {{storylink|Law of the Jungle}} This makes them (and Cheetor in particular, since he's around more) the measuring sticks for the other characters. Therefore, [[Rattrap]] is a monstrously huge rat, the size of a large dog (indeed, the writers stated{{fact}} that Season 1 Rattrap was 5' (1.5m) tall). [[Dinobot]] is considerably larger than a real velociraptor, closer in size to a ''[[Wikipedia: Utahraptor|Utahraptor]]''. [[Rhinox (BW)|Rhinox]] is a rather small rhinoceros, and [[Optimus Primal]] is a roughly normal gorilla. However, [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]] is a positively dwarfish specimen of t-rex, closer to a ''[[Wikipedia: Nanotyrannus|Nanotyrannus]]''.

In their interactions with (adult) [[protohuman]]s, the Transformer characters seem between twice and three times their height. Considering our ancestors really were smaller than modern humans, this issue is not extremely wrong, but it deserves noting.

=== Scale relative to Generation 1 ===
[[Image:Beastwarriors scale.jpg|thumb|left|Beast Megatron's size vs. Optimus Prime in America... and Japan. I guess the Blasty Zone adds on a few tons to [[Beast Era]] characters]]

Between the [[Great War]] and the Beast Era, the majority of the Cybertronian race considerably downgraded in size, apparently in the [[Maximal Upgrade]] Program. (A necessary premise of the show, as the Beast Warriors are supposed to transform into roughly-normal-sized animals, not vehicles.) When entering the ''[[Ark (G1)|Ark]]'', the Beast Warriors are quite small compared to the dormant Generation 1 characters, especially [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]. One can easily imagine them sitting inside the passenger compartments of the Generation 1 characters. When interacting with the Autobot technology of the ''Ark'' and the [[Autobot shuttle]], the Maximals are visibly dealing with equipment grossly oversized for them (standing on the chairs to reach the controls, turning knobs the size of their heads), but overall manage okay. This does not always apply, as the ''Ark'' also seems to feature some human-sized control panels, such as the computer in [[Master Blaster]]. Without any height booster, Blackarachnia can interface well with the controls. A similar situation crops up in Season 1 of the original cartoon, such as when Chip Chase can easily type on and manipulate Teletraan-1.

On the other hand, ''[[Robot Masters]]'' depicted Generation 1 and ''Beast Wars'' characters like Optimus Prime and Optimus Primal as being exactly the same size. Lovely. It's possible that passage through the [[Blasty Zone]] may somehow [[Wikipedia:Boom tube#Later Additions to the Concept|account for this discrepancy]].

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=== Toy scale vs. cartoon scale ===
[[Image:Beastwarsmaxgroup.jpg|right|thumb|350px|Airrazor picks the Ultra-class figure.]]

The Season 1 cast of ''Beast Wars'' were not designed with the same relative sizes as the toyline. The most noticeable problem is Optimus Primal, who has an Ultra toy (almost twice the size of the next-largest Maximal toys), while in the show he's shorter than both Dinobot and Rhinox. Further, Cheetor and Tigatron's toys use the same mold, but Tigatron is a head taller in the show (both because tigers are larger than cheetahs, and because Cheetor is "a kid").

From Season 2 onwards, new characters, and new bodies for old characters, became more consistent in size (and appearance) with their toys.

The ''[[Beast Machines (toyline)|Beast Machines]]''' toyline was ''far'' worse in size discrepancies with the cartoon. Of the Maximals featured in the show, the tallest character, [[Silverbolt (Fuzor)|Silverbolt]], is the ''shortest'' toy, while the diminutive [[Nightscream (BM)|Nightscream]] is a massive Ultra-class toy. And, sadly, the most show-accurate toy, Air Attack [[Optimus Primal]], is a ''ginormous'' Supreme figure, towering over the other toys. (Weirdly, the King Kong-like size of this toy became canon [[Prime_Spark|in one specific]] [[micro-continuity]].)

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==External links==
*[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/msg/6db411e03e75a342?dmode=source Estimated "real-life" heights for several Transformers, derived from the size of their alt-modes, archived from alt.toys.transformers on groups.google.com]
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[[Category: Biology]]
[[Category: Fandom]]
[[Category: Planets]]
[[Category: Technology]]
[[Category: Things that don't exist]]
[[Category: Toys]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Scale

2008-01-02T10:33:07Z

60.50.249.190:

[[Image:OptimusSnakeEyes.jpg|right|thumb|300px|And the truck's ''how'' big...?]]
'''Scale''' in ''Transformers'' is, not to put too fine a point on it, screwed.

Virtually no era, franchise, fiction, toyline or other incarnation of ''Transformers'' has presented scale in a logical or believable fashion. (Save perhaps, the 1:24 toys for ''[[Alternators]]'' and ''[[Kiss Players (toyline)|Kiss Players]]'', but they [[Atari Hitotonari|have their own problems]].) Most fans agree that one must either ignore it or accept it, lest they be tempted to explain these problems and in the process fanwank themselves into oblivion.

However, the scale problems of ''Transformers'' still merit description.

==Scale within toylines==
===Toys out of scale with others in the same line===
The early [[Generation 1 (toyline)|Generation 1 toyline]], especially the pre-[[The Transformers: The Movie|movie]] lines, were repackaged and [[redeco]]ed toys from several different Japanese toylines. The crucial point is that the toylines were initially unrelated. The characters ''should'' be in scale to each other as they all have real-world altmodes that (should) pass for real vehicles. However, since ''[[Diaclone]]'' toys were not part of the same line as ''[[Microman]]'' toys, scale issues arose. ''Diaclone'' figures such as [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]], [[Prowl (G1)|Prowl]] and [[Hound (G1)|Hound]] are more-or-less in correct scale to each other, but many of the [[Mini Vehicle]]s from the ''New Microman'' line are clearly far too small by comparison. Even aside from their deformed penny-racer proportions, a [[Bumblebee (G1)|Volkswagen]] Microman toy is disproportionately tiny when compared to a [[Jazz (G1)|Porsche]] Diaclone toy. The disparity becomes even more obvious with [[minibot]]s such as [[Warpath]] (a tank) and [[Seaspray]] (a hovercraft) who should be many times their actual size.

[[Image:DiacloneScale.jpg|left|thumb|350px|That little guy — who comes from the same toyline as all those vehicles — is supposed to be a normal-sized human. Yeeeah.]]

Another glaring scale problem comes in the form of the [[Seeker]]s, who turn into F-15 Eagles which, in real life, are 63.8′ (19.4m) long. Correctly scaled, this would make their robot modes ''colossal'' compared to most Autobots. Similarly, the [[Constructicon (G1)|Constructicon]]s, despite also coming from the ''Diaclone'' line, are too small. Far worse is the other ''Diaclone'' combiner team, the [[Trainbot]]s, who have train engine altmodes, yet their toys are among the ''smallest'' of the ''Diaclone'' releases.

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===Toys out of scale within teams===
Even toys specifically designed to interact with each other suffer from this problem. The [[Combaticon]]s are wildly out of scale to each other — [[Blast Off]]'s space shuttle mode should dwarf [[Swindle (G1)|Swindle]], with the others somewhere in between. Instead, they're about the same size. Among the Constructicons, [[Long Haul (G1)|Long Haul]] is designed to look like a gigantic [[Wikipedia:Image:Liebherr_t282_1.jpg|"earth-mover" mining truck]]. He should be able to carry all his teammates in his bed, with some crowding. Similarly, [[Silverbolt (G1)|Silverbolt]] (a Concorde jet) is dramatically undersized compared to his fighter-jet [[Aerialbot (G1)|Aerialbot]] teammates. These scale problems are necessary to avoid misproportioned gestalt forms.

===Same altmode, different sizes===
Other scale problems come from characters who transform into the same (or similar) altmodes but whose toys are different sizes. For example [[Air Raid (G1)|Air Raid]] transforms into an F-15 Eagle, but his toy is half the size of [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]]'s. The same can be said for the Lamborghini Countach [[Breakdown]], who should be the same size as [[Sunstreaker]], not significantly smaller. These discrepancies are also seen in the other [[Scramble City]] combiners with Earth altmodes, whose toys are all smaller than similar earlier toys.

===Toys out of scale with themselves===
[[Triple Changer|Triple-Changers]] create a whole new set of problems. [[Octane]] transforms from a 60′ (20m) tanker truck into a 200′ (65m) jumbo jet. [[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]] transforms from an Earth jet into an entire ''aircraft carrier.''

Even a two-mode toy can have this problem. Twentieth Anniversary Optimus Prime has wheels which are pretty tiny for a Freightliner truck, while his rear hitch section is too thick. These out-of-proportion vehicle parts were necessary to give his robot mode [[show-accuracy|show-accurate]] proportions.

===Toys with roleplay altmodes===
The characters with roleplay altmodes such as Generation 1 [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]], [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]], [[Perceptor (G1)|Perceptor]], or [[Laserbeak (Armada)|''Armada'' Laserbeak]] are scaled to be human-scale (well, kid-scale). Since the [[size changing]] seen in the fiction is not possible for real toys (at least, that's what [[Takara]] ''wants'' us to think), this human-scaling makes in some cases for inordinately large robot modes. E.g., [[Blaster]]'s toy, in robot mode, is taller than most other Transformers.

The opposite problem is seen with [[Megatron (G1) toys|Masterpiece Megatron]], whose robot mode is in scale with Masterpiece Optimus Prime. The result is that, while he may transform into a very accurately-proportioned handgun, it's much larger than the real thing.

===Fanciful altmodes===
Most post-[[The Transformers: The Movie|movie]] Generation 1 characters (for that matter, most post-Generation 1 lines) are difficult to accurately scale, as they generally transform into futuristic or Cybertonian vehicles whose size we don't really know. (Or, indeed, they don't transform into vehicles at all.) The scale of characters such as [[Hot Rod]] or [[Leobreaker]] is fairly arbitrary and can only be estimated by their relative size to other characters in the fiction (although most fiction is highly inconsistent in this regard, see below). Nevertheless, if one assumes that most vehicle altmodes are intended for human passengers, comparing toys such as [[Chromedome]] and [[Lightspeed (Technobot)|Lightspeed]] suggests the combiner scale problem continues.

===Big toys===
It goes without saying that the citybot and planetbot toys (Such as [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]] and [[Unicron]]) are not remotely to scale with normal Transformer toys. While they are indeed ''large'' toys, they're only two to five times bigger than typical Transformer toys, and thus transform into "cities" and "planets" about the (relative) size of a bungalow. The scale problems extend to the details. Some of the citybot toys have visible windows, which are too large for a city, suggesting instead a medium-sized building.

However, it's hard to begrudge Hasbro not offering us a [[Primus]] toy the size of an asteroid. Where would we keep it?

===An exception===
There has only been one notable exception to all of this scale weirdness in the toys: the ''[[Alternators]]'' toyline, where every toy is a 1:24-scale representation of a real car, and thus they are in perfect scale with each other. Unfortunately, for practical reasons this limits the choice of altmodes. A Blast Off (space shuttle) Alternator toy would be 5.1′ (1.6m) long, while a Broadside (aircraft carrier) Alternator toy would be over 40′ (12m).

== Scale within fictions ==
[[Image:TeenyCliff.jpg|left|thumb|Frighteningly toy-accurate.]]

Scale issues abound within the fiction, especially the [[Generation 1 (cartoon)|Generation 1 cartoon]]. A lot can be attributed to animation errors, but some "errors" were deliberate choices, for a variety of reasons.

===Animated scale ≈ toy scale===
Very broadly speaking, the Generation 1 cartoon depicts characters to the same relative scale as the toys (including problems discussed above) when depicting the characters in robot modes. Prime, Megatron and Soundwave are generally animated at the same height, Seekers and Autobot cars slightly shorter (though not as much as the toys are), and [[Minibot]]s smaller yet. However, this was ''far'' from consistent.

===Comic scale ≠ toy scale ===
[[Image:OmegaSupremeintro.jpg|thumb|left|175px|No! Don't wash him in hot water! He'll . . .]]

The [[Generation 1 (Marvel Comics)|Generation 1 Marvel comic]] is notorious for changing the relative sizes of various characters. A single Transformer's size is rarely consistent between artists. For example, Rumble and Frenzy vary in height relative to Soundwave. A panel in the [[Time Wars]] shows [[Goldbug]], [[Ironhide (G1)|Ironhide]], [[Scattershot]], and [[Swoop (G1)|Swoop]] all the same height. [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]], titanic in his [[Command Performances|original appearance]], shrunk steadily in subsequent issues until he was not much taller than the average.

[[Image:Buzzsawyikes4.jpg|thumb|right|. . . too late.]]

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===Variation for characterization===
[[Image:Prime has a huge head.jpg|thumb|right|150px|With 20th Anniversary Prime and Smallest Transformers Bumblebee, you can actually recreate this scene.]]

Some scale problems are for the sake of characterization. For example, Optimus Prime is routinely shown as thoroughly gargantuan, several stories in height, and capable of cradling humans in his palm. If he's the size of a real truck, Prime in robot mode should be 25′-30′ (8m-10m) tall, at best. He's drawn large because he's a leader character.

Conversely, [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]] is sometimes shown only a few feet taller than an average human, while in reality he would be 10′-15′ (3m-5m) tall (the Marvel comic actually states he's 15' tall{{fact}}). He's drawn small because he's a human-friendly character, and a junior member of the Autobots.

Those pesky [[Seeker]]s remain a major scale problem; with plane altmodes they would be among the largest everyday Transformers and would ''tower'' over their Autobot adversaries, whereas the animation instead depicts characters such as [[Thundercracker (G1)|Thundercracker]] and [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] as about the same height. Though jets are much larger than cars, they're drawn the same height so the battles appear fair. (And also to make it easier to animate; blocking a shot where characters differ radically in height is difficult.)

In a related vein, [[B.O.T.|sometimes]] Transformers are able to enter human buildings, fitting through their doors and able to run up their staircases without crashing through. A cast that couldn't enter buildings would be grossly inconvenient for telling some stories, so the animators fudge things.

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===Transport characters===
[[Image:MakeHoistHuffer.jpg|left|thumb|Definitely ''not'' toy-accurate.]]

Transformers that act as transport for other Transformers will often dramatically change size relative to their compatriots between one shot and the next. These changes in scale are usually attributed to [[Size_changing#Implicit size changing|implicit size changing]] by that portion of the fanbase who like to find explanations for things. The other explanation is that the animators hoped the audience wouldn't notice. (See the [[size changing]] article for more discussion of this topic.)

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===Combiner characters===
[[Image:DreamwaveCover6.jpg|right|thumb|200px|Since when is a sedan nine stories tall?]]

[[Combiner]] characters are often depicted as far larger than the sum of their parts. Characters such as [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]] and [[Menasor (G1)|Menasor]] are frequently shown as [[That big green, fire-snortin' lizard|Godzilla]]-sized. Given that their limbs are mere cars and construction vehicles, this is patently absurd. ([[Superion (G1)|Superion]], by contrast, ''would'' be building-sized, given that his torso is a 100-seat jetliner.)

Combiners are also often out-of-scale with other Transformers; a combiner with cars for legs and another car for its torso should be only twice as tall as a one-car Transformer, but they are routinely drawn as five to dozens of times taller than their comrades.

===Pretender characters===
The [[Pretender]]s had interesting scale issues. In the [[Generation 1 (Marvel Comics)|original comic]] the Pretenders appeared fairly literally as their toy counterparts; Transformer-sized robots inside Transformer-sized humanoid shells. The result was that the [[Autobot]] Pretenders (in their shells) were giant-sized humans. This successfully disguised them (for about five seconds, literally) from the Decepticons, and also hid their mechanical nature from aliens. However, it was utterly useless at fooling humans. Further, in [[Guess Who the Mecannibals are Having for Dinner?|one story]], the Pretender [[Cloudburst]] exited his shell, transformed into jet mode, and then his shell (and [[Landmine (G1)|Landmine]]) boarded him as a passenger. The fact that his ''outer'' shell was now smaller than the ''inner'' robot was quietly ignored; one assumes the sort of size-changing mentioned under ''Transport characters,'' above, was involved.

In the U.S. toy commercials, Grimlock, Bumblebee, and Jazz in their new Pretender forms were small enough to fit in Powermaster Optimus Prime's hand. So, at least in that [[micro-continuity]], they were human-sized.

(The Japanese-only series ''[[Masterforce (cartoon)|Super-God Masterforce]]'' featured Pretenders who did not have outer shells but rather an ill-defined holistic transformation which explicitly involved size changing. A vaguely similar explanation appeared in [[Dreamwave Productions|Dreamwave's]] ''[[More Than Meets The Eye]]'' encyclopedia.)

===Small Transformers===
The assorted toys produced over the decades to hit the lowest price point usually include "mini" or "micro" in their name, and usually are depicted as smaller than other Transformers in the fiction as well.

====Micromasters====
The [[Micromaster]]s are roughly human-sized in robot mode, and thus virtually all of them turn into Earth vehicles that are patently incapable of seating human passengers inside them. (The Marvel comic featured ''some'' of them implicitly size-changing to vehicles that could carry human passengers, but this was rare.)

The Dreamwave miniseries ''[[Micromasters]]'' had an explanation, suggesting the Micromasters were Transformers scaled to fit a smaller race of humans. This is met with skepticism from fans, in part because it doesn't explain the scale problems ''within'' the line. All Micromasters are about the same height in robot-mode, but they transform into small cars, large trucks, planes, tanks, and other vehicles that should be vastly different sizes. The alleged "smaller race of humans" must vary in size quite a bit, and only the really teeny ones get to fly the planes . . .

To be fair, there is little indication in the fiction that the Micromasters were ''supposed'' to have consistent scale. They were explictly downsized Transformers, and the scale problems inherent to that resizing were tacitly part of the fiction. Their passenger compartments can thus be regarded as vestigial.

====Mini-Cons====
The [[Mini-Con]]s of the [[Unicron Trilogy]] are another race of small robots who stand approximately the same height as humans and, like the Micromasters before them, are clearly modeled to carry passengers. Really teeny passengers. (Notable exceptions are [[Grindor (Armada)|Grindor]] (in his original body), [[Sureshock]], and [[High Wire]], who become small one-man vehicles.) In this continuity, there's no sign of mini-passengers. The prevailing theory is that Mini-Cons scan normal vehicles and then resize them to fit, retaining now-useless passenger compartments. In the [[Cybertron (cartoon)|''Cybertron'' cartoon]], the [[Recon Mini-Con Team]] have slightly-larger-than-human robot modes, but their alternate modes are large enough for a single human passenger, implying either a little size-changing, or that their cockpits are kinda cramped.

===Big Transformers===
On the other end of the scale, the problems posed by really big Transformers lie in how they interact with normal-sized ones.

====Citybots====
[[Image:EarlyGalvatronTVMagazine1.jpg|right|300px|thumb|If you were ever ''this'' big in the cartoon, ''then'' we might call you a city.]]

The characters [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]], [[Trypticon]], [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]] and [[Scorponok (G1)|Scorponok]] have "city" altmodes (with Fort Max being supposedly the biggest of the four). However, a size at which they could house enough humans, ''let alone'' Transformers, to be reasonably defined as a "city", would suggest a robot-mode that'd make [[Hojoni|Godzilla]] look like a gecko. Suffice to say, they're rarely drawn that big. It doesn't help that these citybots have "small" robots forming vital components. Fortress Maximus and Scorponok both have "human-sized" beings forming their heads. (Fort Max has a [[Cerebros (G1)|middleman]] in there, but still.) [[Full-Tilt]], [[Six Gun]], and [[Slammer]] must logically be building-sized in robot-mode to be in-scale with Trypticon and Metroplex, but, again, are not drawn as such. No fiction, not even the very large depiction in the ''[[Headmasters (cartoon)|Headmasters]]'' cartoon, even ''begins'' to approximate the logical size of a true "citybot". In reality, the grossly-undersized depictions of [[Unicron]] (see below) would be closer to the size of a transformed city. This is ironic, as in Season 3 of the Generation 1 cartoon Unicron requires the eyes of a citybot to replace his own. (Though, "realistically", his eyes should be the size of Texas.) Rare examples of a realistic citybot scale include some Japanese promotional art (e.g., at right).

The cartoon episode "[[Thief in the Night]]" makes a stab at explaining this via an establishing shot that shows Metroplex to be a small sub-section of the "actual" Autobot City, although this was not repeated. Overall, it seems that in Transformer terms, "city" is better read as "building".

Although little fiction to date has featured the Headmaster leaders as cities, in the Japanese cartoons they have been employed in their tertiary modes as starships capable of housing many normal-sized Transformers. Conversely, the Marvel Generation 1 comic depicted Fortress Maximus and Scorponok as merely "large-standard" characters, equal in height to Powermaster Optimus Prime and (in some UK issues) Rodimus Prime. (To be fair, Powermaster Prime was often drawn undersized in the comics).

====Planets and planetbots====
[[Image:Cybertronplanet.jpg|left|250px|thumb|If we're generous and assume Cybertron is only the size of Earth's moon, then the larger visible buildings are roughly the size of Massachusetts stood on end, and you could wedge ''France'' into that gash. (Which would probably improve both Cybertron and France.)]]

Scale when it comes to planets is so fraught it's painful. The problems of describing citybots as "cities" is a thousand times worse if [[Unicron]] is supposed to have a planet alternate mode, and [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] is in turn supposed to be of similar size. Though different stories have compared Cybertron/Primus and Unicron to drastically different real planets, the fact remains that they are ''planets'', and yet are shown in such insane scale to characters as to suggest they are the size of a ''very'' small moon (or [[Darth Vader|space station]]).

To start with, Cybertron was shown throughout Generation 1 with buildings visible from space. Although this was intended to show that the planet was technological in nature, it makes little sense, as the structures would have to be the size of small ''nations'' to be visible. If the buildings were in fact supposed to be skyscrapers (or even ''2000 A.D.'' style arcologies) sized for 30' (10m) robots, Cybertron would still be less than 100 miles (150km) across. By comparison, the rather [http://www.starwars.com/databank/location/coruscant/index.html Coruscant]-like shots of Cybertron in ''[[Beast Machines (cartoon)|Beast Machines]]'' may be less distinctive or "Cybertronian", but are ''far'' more believable.

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[[Image:UnicronEatsGalvyMmmm.jpg|right|thumb|Either [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvy]] is humungo, or [[Lithone]] is ''tiiinyyy!!!'']]

Unicron is a more extreme problem. Assuming no [[size changing]] occurs during his transformation, in robot mode he would be so massive that any shot featuring a recognizable ''part'' of his body, let alone the whole thing, would be on a scale such that no normal Transformer would even be visible. Scenes in the ''[[The Transformers: The Movie|Movie]]'' in which he directly interacts with normal Cybertronians are blatantly absurd (though totally phat-looking). Shots such as the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobot]]s fleeing his grasping hand, a starship penetrating his eye, or ''especially'' him picking up Galvatron between his fingers before swallowing him, break any concept of "planetary" scale. If Unicron is the size of a planet, his hands would be the size of continents. This would make Galvatron (in the image to the right) the size of Great Britain.

There is no explanation for any of this. Just go with it.

The depiction of Unicron's scale in ''[[Armada]]'' was (debatably) a slight improvement, in that physical interaction with normal beings was not attempted. He preferred instead to communicate with normal Transformers by possessing [[Sideways|one of them]]. Nevertheless, shots featuring [[Thrust (Armada)|Thrust]] and [[Megatron (Armada)|Megatron]] standing on his neck are still ''farcically'' out of scale.

===An exception: The 2007 ''Transformers'' movie===
[[Image:Moviescale1.jpg|thumb|left|250px|Scale is absolutely not an issue in the movie. However, [[Toy Accuracy]] is.]]

The creators of the [[Transformers (2007)|live-action movie]] took great pains to avoid out-of-scale issues. (Well, greater than previous franchises.) This is sometimes reflected in the choice of vehicle or the design of their robot mode. E.g., [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] is an extended-hood cab in order to have more mass to make a taller robot mode with. [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]'s robot mode is nearly as wide as it is tall, with shorter, digitigrade legs, so the massive jet-former won't end up twice as tall as Optimus. In the case of [[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]], his huge alternate mode simply results in a hulking, towering robot mode.

There are still minor scale issues to be found, though. For example, Optimus Prime can hold both [[Sam Witwicky|Sam]] and [[Mikaela Banes|Mikaela]] in one hand. Comparing this shot with when he picks up [[Archibald Witwicky]]'s glasses a few minutes later, it seems the glasses have lenses a foot (30cm) in diameter. This is a visual cheat so the glasses are visible to the audience. There's also debate about whether [[Frenzy (Movie)|Frenzy]]'s head could compact itself into a slim mobile phone.

====The movie toys====
For the movie toys, most of the Deluxe- and Voyager-class toys are to the same scale (about 1:35), but Starscream, Bonecrusher, Deluxe Brawl, and Blackout are too small. These four exceptions are, however, ''roughly'' in scale with each other (at about 1:65). The movie toy line can thus be interpreted as having two distinct scales.

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===Scale problems and size-changing===
Some fans interpret the many otherwise-unexplained scale issues above to all be the result of [[size changing]], but this is debatable. If virtually all characters use mass-shifting (or whatever) to gain or drop a few feet of height for no logical reason, the technology would be pointlessly mundane. There's also no known reason for (e.g.) the Seekers to choose to get ''shorter'' when going into battle. A to-scale Starscream in robot mode could kick Bumblebee around like a soccer ball. There's simply no positive evidence that size-changing is so widespread.

==Official Scale Guides ==
[[Image: tfcartoonscaleguideic1.jpg|left|thumb|Official Scale Guides]] Animators and comic book artists were given official scale guides that showed relative and in some cases absolute heights. Some of these were published in the character model guide ''[[Transformers:_The_Ark|Transformers: The Ark]]''. Though they were not consistently followed, they give some insight into the official heights of characters in the G1 Marvel series and the G1 cartoon. Even in this format, there are scale problems. Devastator in the season one scale guide was approximately 2.5 times the height of Optimus Prime, but by season two he was somewhat less than 2 times Prime's height.

==Show scale vs. toy scale==
[[Image:Omegagrab.jpg|right|thumb|I know he's meant to be ''big'', but holy crap, dude!]]Some characters have great discrepancies between their cartoon scale and their toy scale. "Giant" characters such as [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]] are, even aside from any [[size changing]] for transport purposes, clearly not in the same scale in toy form as they are depicted on screen. [[Mini-Cassette|Cassette characters]] such as [[Rumble (G1)|Rumble]]'s toys are roughly the same height as most [[Minibot]]s, while in the show they are usually portrayed as human-sized.

[[Hot Rod|Rodimus Prime]] and [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] are usually shown to be of a fairly similar height (although Magnus is much bulkier), whereas there is a considerable difference between the size of their toys. By the same token, Rodimus is always depicted as being an equal stature to his opposing leader [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]], whereas the toy Galvatron is instead the same size as Magnus. Optimus Prime is also usually shown as only a head or so shorter than Magnus (if that), which gets very strange when you realise that a redco of Prime's toy forms but a small part of Magnus' robot mode.

[[Image:ShrinkingHeavy.jpg|left|thumb|I lost thirty tons, thanks to the Jump-Cut! Thank you, Jump-Cut!]]

[[Metroplex (Cybertron)|''Cybertron'' Metroplex]] and the other citizens of [[Gigantion]] are depicted as gargantuan in animation, whereas the toys are merely among the normal boxed size-classes. (Although, the Japanese ''[[Galaxy Force]]'' release, dubbed "Megalo Convoy", included an exclusive [[redeco]] of the [[Legends of Cybertron]] [[Optimus Prime (Armada)|Optimus Prime]] to indicate the "correct" scale.) Within the animation, though, this causes problems with their Mini-Con partners, who are depicted as human-sized in robot mode by themselves, but when directly interacting with their larger partners, have their relative size in relation to the toy . . . meaning some temporarily gigantic Mini-Cons!

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== ''Beast Era'' scale ==
[[Image:RattrapLOVEScheetor.jpg|thumb|right|I'm tellin' ya, ''all'' da rats in Brooklyn are dis big!]]

In the [[Beast Era]], scale is not such a large issue, although it does crop up in less obvious ways.

===Real world scale===
Although the Beast Warriors are consistent day-to-day in their relative size to each other, their scale in relation to their real-world animal equivalents is more complex. While the bug characters such as [[Waspinator]] and [[Inferno (BW)|Inferno]] are obviously scaled-up, ''most'' of the characters are subtly not quite the right size.

[[Cheetor (BW)|Cheetor]] and [[Tigatron]] are the only characters shown standing next to real members of their species, and they are both the same size as the animals in question. {{storylink|Beast Wars, Part 1}} {{storylink|Law of the Jungle}} This makes them (and Cheetor in particular, since he's around more) the measuring sticks for the other characters. Therefore, [[Rattrap]] is a monstrously huge rat, the size of a large dog (indeed, the writers stated{{fact}} that Season 1 Rattrap was 5' (1.5m) tall). [[Dinobot]] is considerably larger than a real velociraptor, closer in size to a ''[[Wikipedia: Utahraptor|Utahraptor]]''. [[Rhinox (BW)|Rhinox]] is a rather small rhinoceros, and [[Optimus Primal]] is a roughly normal gorilla. However, [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]] is a positively dwarfish specimen of t-rex, closer to a ''[[Wikipedia: Nanotyrannus|Nanotyrannus]]''.

In their interactions with (adult) [[protohuman]]s, the Transformer characters seem between twice and three times their height. Considering our ancestors really were smaller than modern humans, this issue is not extremely wrong, but it deserves noting.

=== Scale relative to Generation 1 ===
[[Image:Beastwarriors scale.jpg|thumb|left|Beast Megatron's size vs. Optimus Prime in America... and Japan. I guess the Blasty Zone adds on a few tons to [[Beast Era]] characters]]

Between the [[Great War]] and the Beast Era, the majority of the Cybertronian race considerably downgraded in size, apparently in the [[Maximal Upgrade]] Program. (A necessary premise of the show, as the Beast Warriors are supposed to transform into roughly-normal-sized animals, not vehicles.) When entering the ''[[Ark (G1)|Ark]]'', the Beast Warriors are quite small compared to the dormant Generation 1 characters, especially [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]. One can easily imagine them sitting inside the passenger compartments of the Generation 1 characters. When interacting with the Autobot technology of the ''Ark'' and the [[Autobot shuttle]], the Maximals are visibly dealing with equipment grossly oversized for them (standing on the chairs to reach the controls, turning knobs the size of their heads), but overall manage okay. This does not always apply, as the ''Ark'' also seems to feature some human-sized control panels, such as the computer in [[Master Blaster]]. Without any height booster, Blackarachnia can interface well with the controls. A similar situation crops up in Season 1 of the original cartoon, such as when Chip Chase can easily type on and manipulate Teletraan-1.

On the other hand, ''[[Robot Masters]]'' depicted Generation 1 and ''Beast Wars'' characters like Optimus Prime and Optimus Primal as being exactly the same size. Lovely. It's possible that passage through the [[Blasty Zone]] may somehow [[Wikipedia:Boom tube#Later Additions to the Concept|account for this discrepancy]].

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=== Toy scale vs. cartoon scale ===
[[Image:Beastwarsmaxgroup.jpg|right|thumb|350px|Airrazor picks the Ultra-class figure.]]

The Season 1 cast of ''Beast Wars'' were not designed with the same relative sizes as the toyline. The most noticeable problem is Optimus Primal, who has an Ultra toy (almost twice the size of the next-largest Maximal toys), while in the show he's shorter than both Dinobot and Rhinox. Further, Cheetor and Tigatron's toys use the same mold, but Tigatron is a head taller in the show (both because tigers are larger than cheetahs, and because Cheetor is "a kid").

From Season 2 onwards, new characters, and new bodies for old characters, became more consistent in size (and appearance) with their toys.

The ''[[Beast Machines (toyline)|Beast Machines]]''' toyline was ''far'' worse in size discrepancies with the cartoon. Of the Maximals featured in the show, the tallest character, [[Silverbolt (Fuzor)|Silverbolt]], is the ''shortest'' toy, while the diminutive [[Nightscream (BM)|Nightscream]] is a massive Ultra-class toy. And, sadly, the most show-accurate toy, Air Attack [[Optimus Primal]], is a ''ginormous'' Supreme figure, towering over the other toys. (Weirdly, the King Kong-like size of this toy became canon [[Prime_Spark|in one specific]] [[micro-continuity]].)

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==External links==
*[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/msg/6db411e03e75a342?dmode=source Estimated "real-life" heights for several Transformers, derived from the size of their alt-modes, archived from alt.toys.transformers on groups.google.com]
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