MediaWiki - User contributions [en]

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving2

2009-05-27T00:18:42Z

67.164.210.225: /* Many Happy Returns */

Man, we all had so much hope for New Caprica.

==So what now?==
{{note|This topic was moved from [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal#So what now?]]}}
I brought this general line of questioning up [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=56439&view=findpost&p=1161767 over at the Allspark too,] but that was really only because TFWiki.net was down at the time. Basically, in the wake of the Bookworm disaster, I'd like to know three things:
# '''How did this happen?''' All I know is that Bookworm updated the MediaWiki software, which caused... something... to happen to our data. The wiki was, what? Deleted? Corrupted? I don't know. But apparently this required a reversion to a backup, and the only available one was from June 2008. Why did that one even exist? Why not September? And, honestly, the "routine backups" made after September had ''all'' failed, with no one ever noticing? How did that happen?
# '''Has the backup process been fixed?''' This is pretty much the most important question of the moment. Every bit of our herculean recovery effort could vanish again if the June backup is ''still'' the only one on the server.
# '''Where are we going from here?''' Walky has said that [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central/Archive1#Hey hey, what can I do|he's looking for a new host, and he has asked for advice]]. I haven't seen much advice appear (maybe people have been communicating with him in private?), but if anyone has any suggestions, please air them. I wouldn't even know where to start, so I'm of little help.
- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 18:03, 23 March 2009 (EDT)

:Bookworm has explained to me what he thinks happened to the backups, but I couldn't begin to regurgitate that information. This stuff is not English for me. (Some would say English is not English for me.) It involves complicated server moves and DNS stuff, I think, and the bottom line is none of the backups were confirmed to have resulted in working backups; they were merely scheduled to be made, automatic-like, and resulted in, from what I understand, data being thrown into the ether, never sticking to anything. '''WHOOPS''' --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:23, 24 March 2009 (EDT)

::All right, so does he have it working NOW? - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 02:02, 24 March 2009 (EDT)
:::Scout, according to a post on the Allspark, has been doing database downloads every afternoon. I don't know about Bookworm. If I asked him, he'd probably say yes, but he would have said yes before, too! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 09:46, 24 March 2009 (EDT)
::::Is there any way we can be sure we're getting ANY service out of Bookworm?--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 10:00, 24 March 2009 (EDT)

:I really have no concept of what to look for in a host. While I've managed to find decent hosting for my own site in the past, it's a static, relatively low-traffic site, nothing like here. A [http://webhostinggeeks.com/ quick search] reveals that there are plenty of hosts offering unlimited space and bandwidth for about $5/month, which sure seems like something we could afford. But I have no intuitive sense of how to identify a quality host for our kind of needs. Like, are these $5 guys the first level of low-grade vendors who have Google-statted their way up the search results, and you have to dig deeper to find the more heavy-duty kind of host we'd need? Are the recommended hosts on that page just there 'cause they paid for it? Or is $5 just the going rate for quality hosting these days? How do we distinguish a reseller from an actual host? How much software and setup support do we need?

:I mean, I guess I'd expect a serious host not to have [http://www.justhost.com/ cheap tarts on their front page], but ''anybody'' can make a [http://www.inmotionhosting.com/ serious, grey-toned, business-like web page]... even guys who provide crappy service. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 18:36, 24 March 2009 (EDT)

::They may say they offer unlimited space or bandwidth, but I'm betting that there's a clause in the T&C which limits it to "for some meanings of unlimited". The big Doctor Who fiction archive site I help run got bumped from the cheaper account it was on to a more expensive one because it was using too many "resources" (the software it runs on is not the most efficient), though it was using less than the maximum bandwidth/disk space. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:26, 24 March 2009 (EDT)

:::That's exactly the kind of thing I'm wary of with these cheap places. The front-line search result hosts really don't seem like they're marketing to processor-intensive clients like ourselves. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 20:06, 24 March 2009 (EDT)

::::What is our price limit, anyway? I mean, the account which the aforemented fanfiction site is on is extremely reliable, you get access to everything up to and including rebooting the server if you want. However drawback is that it costs $40 a month. Now it could be we could share costs by having several sites hosted on the same server (I'd have to check with the web host about that), but I don't know what our price range is. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:34, 24 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::I would be very interested in hearing our budgetary constraints as well. The last time this was asked, Walky said that Bookworm was handling it and that the dude would let him know if what we were doing was costing more than the Project Wonderful ads were pulling in. At the time that was cool as school but in retrospect it seems... really skeevy. It also possibly says that Bookworm ''already'' has our ad revenue, and can effectively hold us hostage. I know that sounds paranoid, but I don't know what to think right now and would love some reassurance at the least.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 00:24, 25 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::Bookworm absolutely cannot hold our ad revenue hostage. WE have our ad revenue. It is gathering in our Project Wonderful account, where it will remain until we can point it to a paypal account at some point in the future. Bookworm may have fucked over the wiki this past week, but he's not a jerky guy. He just loves webcomics, and basically hosts BLC at low-cost because it allows his favorite things to continue. Hosting the TF Wiki was an extension of that, and he did it because I asked him. Let's not demonify the guy any more than we have to. He's not going to screw us over, and I really doubt he has any bad intentions in mind. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:34, 25 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::::Consider me reassured, then. Likely me just taking the earlier statement too far. Understandably, the concept of how the wiki is financed and how much it is costing us has been pretty black box up to now.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 00:36, 25 March 2009 (EDT)

My input:

I used [http://eperfect.net/ ePerfect] as my first webhost. I found them to be reliable and easy to administer, but we would have to negotiate our own package with them, as their standard plans are obviously way too small. (I do know a fellow who did such a negotiation for his website, so I know it was possible at least in the past, however I am not privy to what his costs ended up being.) I also have no idea how their tech support is, as I never had to talk with them for any reason.

My current webhost is [http://dreamhost.com/ Dreamhost]. For $10/month you get gobs of space, bandwidth, and options (and full control over your space), and they also have private virtual server options. They also will host one domain name for free if you have webspace with them. I find their tech support people have been quick on the response the few times I've needed to talk to them.

However, they have had some hardware goofs in the past, and I've never had personal experience with how they'd handle a no doubt high-bandwidth, high-CPU-usage site like this one. They are, however, very quick and open with any and all issues they have: [http://www.dreamhoststatus.com/ Dreamhost Status Blog]

So, there you have it, the only two webhosts I'm personally familiar with, and I admit I can't 100% recommend either, but they might be worth looking into. (And I shamelessly request that if you do end up with Dreamhost, you use my referrer code while signing up. :3 ) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:59, 24 March 2009 (EDT)

One of #wiigii!'s resident tech dudes recommends [http://www.slicehost.com/ Slicehost]. He immediately followed this up with a string of caveats -- it won't be perfect, we'd need someone to install Wikimedia, restoring from a backup would basically mean rolling back one day, etc etc -- but it sounds far better equipped to handle our needs than Bookworm, and it looks like exactly the kind of heavy-duty host which, as I said up above, I don't know how to search for. Some of it, I mean... ''no'' host is perfect, and we have to accept some compromise to keep things within our budget -- but reliable uptime and actual working backups would be a fantastic step up from our current situation. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 00:17, 25 March 2009 (EDT)

: I am that tech dude. Here's the deal, from what has been gathered and occasionally specified. The platform on which this wiki runs seems to need a half-gig of RAM, and under 10 gigs of diskspace, but it does apparently need dual CPUs at a decent clock speed. Fundamentally, it could be hosted on a mid-range desktop based on those specs, but the hardware, and even the bandwidth, is cheap. You either need a sysadmin to maintain everything, which is not a full-time job '''until something breaks,''' or you need a managed hosting option that knows how to run MediaWiki properly. The former gives you complete control over everything, though you may not get cPanel support and the like unless you build it yourself. The latter is what you had when Wikia didn't suck, which I'm sure had a lot less headaches in terms of the guts of the system, although it was obviously NOT a good solution based on how they presented your content. Personally, I think you're more likely to find a pool of competent techies within the fandom to handle the nuts and bolts on a volunteer basis, though you would be handing over ALL the keys to the castle to that person. -- [[User:McFly|McFly]] 22:23, 26 March 2009 (EDT)

:: I've dealt with this crap so far up until now. I have no qualms with continuing to do so. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 10:53, 27 March 2009 (EDT)

I thought I'd weigh in with [http://www.hostforweb.com/ HostForWeb], who I've hosted my personal site with since January '04. Their tech support is pretty good, and even moved my site to a different server for me when the one it was on started having persistent problems running out of disk space. The only thing I can flaw them on is that they don't announce downtime in advance, so a few times I've found the site down, emailed them, and they've told me that the server was being rebooted or something.

The larger site which I help run which is hosted with them is [http://www.whofic.com/ A Teaspoon and an Open Mind]. It's been hosted there since September '06. Last month, it got an average 3,755 pageviews per day, and from user reports, it has very little in the way of downtime, but, as I mention, it's running on their $40-a-month VPS plan (you get a two-month discount if you pay for a year at a time). We started on one of the shared plans, but the site was using too many resources (The software we're using is not particularly efficient...) and we ended up being bumped to the VPS option. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 07:04, 25 March 2009 (EDT)

===Craptacular server performance===
[[Image:adequatehosting.gif|thumb|center|500px|Change we can believe in.]]

I don't know what the hell is going on, but shortly after the crash, I saw a message that we were moving servers to allegedly better handle our traffic volume. However, my experience with this site since is that it's actually performing worse, far worse than pre-crash. At least back then, I could predict when the server would go down (apparently for this mysterious backing up our host apparently did that didn't work anyway) at around 5-7PM my time. But now, the server stops working (sometimes for quite a while) whenever it jolly well wants to. My connection to every other site is perfectly fine, so it's clearly not a problem on my end. What is going on?

I dare say we may have to consider the (fictional) Adequate Host. Can't be worse ;) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 07:47, 6 April 2009 (EDT)
:We haven't changed servers yet — we're still on the original one. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 08:19, 6 April 2009 (EDT)
::I didn't say we moved hosts. I meant this message on the 19th of March:

::''"Due to high loads, the TFWiki is in the process of being moved to another server. Please be patient. Bookworm Computing"''

::What, so we didn't move to another server? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 12:42, 6 April 2009 (EDT)
:::I didn't say anything about hosts either. :) You can see the story of what happened on [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving2|Leaving2]]. An attempt was apparently made to switch the site to a new server but... failed. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:32, 6 April 2009 (EDT)
::::Ahh, I see. I assumed we HAD moved. Sorry mate. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 17:12, 6 April 2009 (EDT)

== Page load issues ==
{{note|This topic was moved from [[Transformers_Wiki_talk:Community_Portal#Page_load_issues]]}}
This might be just me, but has anyone else been experiencing trouble loading pages lately? I'd ignore it completely as the price of having an old laptop, but I have this problem here more frequently than any other site. Is anyone else having such a problem? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 17:42, 27 March 2009 (EDT)
:Bookworm <strike>allegedly</strike> attempted to move us to a new server on March 18 knocking the site offline for several hours and apparently mucking around with the site's DNS entries. (Why you'd need to fuck with the TFwiki DNS entries to swap servers in-house...?)
#<strike>They are lying.</strike>The move failed. (I neither know nor particularly care why.) We're still on the same server. The BLC sites we share space with still go down at the same time.
#<strike>We have no idea what when in when they <strike>claimed</strike> attempted to "switch TFWiki to another server."</strike> I dunno, I think this is still accurate... specially since it seems to correlate witht he next item.
#That server has been having epileptic fits ever since ''whatever'' they did with [http://deriksmith.livejournal.com/38572.html brownouts, blackouts, timeouts and lockouts] occurring off-and-on at ''all hours'' of the day. This doesn't affect just us; it also affect all the webcomic guys hosted on our server-- thus [http://www.shortpacked.com/d/20090327.html the punchline of the latest Shortpacked!]
#The site is still going completely offline for a half-hour every night for the "backup" which apparently doesn't work.
#David's being either preoccupied <strike>or secretive (or possibly just sullen given the strip)</strike> which leaves me in the dark on whether anything new has happened with Bookworm the last 5 days-- but I suspect the answer is "no."
#A new home for the site is being discussed. The current (very tentative) plan-under-consideration involves a "Safeguard" two-server setup where one server hosts the wiki and a second ''synced'' server acts as backup, with server-bogging tasks like weekly database backups and downloads handled on the second server so that the "live" wiki never skips a beat. '''Note:''' ''It's not my plan, I know ''nothing'' of the technical issues involved, don't ask me questions about it, and nothing has been decided yet, it's just what people-who-are-not-me are looking at.''
#Scout just fixed some post-caching processing code the wiki's been running since we moved in (a early hack we never got around to setting right) that should ''slightly'' improve TFWiki's responsiveness. But this isn't related to the downtime. That's on the ''Houston'' end of the problem.

So yes- you're not imagining it. The site's experiencing intermittent downtime. It seems ot be getting worse, we don't know what's causing it, and Bookworm has been about as helpful, useful and informative as the jawbone of an ass. That's right-- ''biblically'' useless. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:59, 27 March 2009 (EDT)
{{note|Yes, Derik is '''aware''' that the jawbone which everyone thought was useless was eventually given a purpose by Sampson. Shut up Walky, allow Derik his bombastitude.}}
:{{note|SoM would like to point out to Derik that the biblical guy was "Samson", not "Sampson" :p}}
::{{note|Derik would like to call you a bad word now. '''Samaritan.''' }}
:Derik, I just want to thank you for sharing all of that. As I said [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=56439&view=findpost&p=1162718 over on that Allspark thread,] the view from the trenches can be exceedingly foggy. I'm sure that's in part due to you and Walky and Suki not actually knowing what's going on EITHER, or being too swamped to communicate when you DO... but still, it's really good to get updates whenever possible. I suggested maybe a setting up a Twitter feed or something. ''Anything,'' really, so that the rank-and-file can get a better understanding of how the wiki is actually being run. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 19:11, 27 March 2009 (EDT)
:::I'm not terribly "in the loop" either. I don't run in the same social circles as these guys, so anything I know comes from poking the guys making these decisions for information (or the lack thereof) in-between fiddling with Deceptitran. (First sweep 93% complete. It shoulda been days ago-- but all the brownouts tend to stop the program) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:15, 27 March 2009 (EDT)
::::See, that just goes to show how little information is actually lying around for folks to pick up. If you're not one of the people "in charge," who is? Walky, I gather, set our current arrangement up, though in an entirely non-technical sense. Suki is the uppermost person I know of in terms of technical decision-making, though apparently she's had a deuce of a time getting any real access to the server from Bookworm. Is there anybody else I'm missing? - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 23:59, 27 March 2009 (EDT)

::What? Bookworm is NOT lying about moving us to another server. He told me immediately after FAILING to get this wiki to WORK on a different server, that he'd put it BACK. We've known that since. I guess we didn't tell YOU that, but... Jesus Christ, dude. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:15, 27 March 2009 (EDT)
:::Or Scout apparently, since she was equally in the dark when we discussed the server-change shutdown on the 19th.
::(Furthermore, the current Shortpacked! punchline has nothing to do with the current situation. I thought it'd be funny if the strip itself "failed" after Ethan was proved wrong by the guy he makes fun of all of the time. Nothing more, nothing less. Man, most of BLC isn't even on the same damn server as us. It's just me and the BLC forums. There hasn't been a damn peep from the rest of BLC.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:18, 27 March 2009 (EDT)
:::Well bravo on the unintended synchronicity! The server's epileptic episodes tied-in with your punchline hilariously well! You should totally '''thank''' Bookworm for our downtime, because it's enhanced the realism of the ''Sortpacked!'' experience. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:15, 27 March 2009 (EDT)

== Complaints ==

[[Image:Ides time on site.png|thumb|]]
"Put it in numbers." -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:39, 6 April 2009 (EDT)
{{-}}
[[Image:Ides google-rankings.png|thumb]]
Our Google rank, which slid ''noticeably'' lower after the spam-laden import, is mostly recovered, but we're below where we were. This is frustrating because we ''had'' been making actual gains, and the Google ranking is much easier to slide down than to climb up.

Lately we've been spending muchmroe time recovering old content than developing new stuff, and that hurts how we look to Search Engines. >:( -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:50, 6 April 2009 (EDT)
{{-}}

[[Image:Idea projecctwonderful.png|thumb]]
Adviews, the "lifeblood" of our site that (theoretically) pays for hosting, etc... drop 55% after the crash. Recovering. OHai-- notice how today has a giant dip in it? Apparently when you're '''down''' for half the day, no one can see your ads!
{{-}}

[[Image:Ides pages per visit.png|thumb]]
Pageviews-per-visit drop s from ~17 to ~12. 4 pages might not seem like a big difference... but that's a 20% drop. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:40, 6 April 2009 (EDT)
{{-}}

[[Image:adequatehosting.gif|thumb|center|500px|Change we can believe in.]]
--[[User:FFN|FFN]] 17:14, 6 April 2009 (EDT)

Just a note: [http://www.google.com/trends?q=transformers+wiki Google trends for Transformers Wiki]. I think that's quite a good indicator of what we might expect when ROTF comes out. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:33, 26 April 2009 (EDT)
:That chart terrifies me. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:41, 11 May 2009 (EDT)
::This is what I get typing [http://www.google.com/trends?q=tf+wiki&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0 "tf wiki"]. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 02:38, 12 May 2009 (EDT)

==Update?==
Okay, it's been over a month since anyone has said anything about actually moving to a new host (as opposed to just documenting all the reasons to leave). Has there been any action behind the scenes on this? Who's involved in the decision-making process? I imagine Walky is the one who has to ultimately make it happen, and I also imagine Suki would be involved somehow. If either of you guys (or anybody else in the know that I'm unaware of) could give us a rundown of our status, host-wise, that would be awesome. Thank you! - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 22:00, 3 May 2009 (EDT)
:I think they hoped everybody would have forgotten about this.... until the next crash, anyway. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 18:13, 5 May 2009 (EDT)

:What Jackpot said. It's been pretty quiet lately on that front. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 09:48, 6 May 2009 (EDT)

:And again. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 10:47, 7 May 2009 (EDT)

::Yeah, we really need to get off this server, and last I knew we had at least a few options, so... ??? I'm in the same boat as FFN - I'm trying to get people to visit here since we have the better info, but running into, "Well, the Wikia site is actually up, and I don't feel like waiting..." (Heck, I have to admit even I sneak over to Wikia sometimes when I need a bit of quickie info during a roleplaying session and we're down.... again... :/ ) Plus it's annoying as hell while trying to edit pages.
::I'm not jumping ship personally no matter what, but we do really need to get the heck out of Dodge. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:58, 7 May 2009 (EDT)
:::Walky recently said on the Allspark that they'd already priced out a server, and that Suki has just finished up finals so we should be able to move soonish. Presumably after such a move and once stability has been verified, we should be able to do the MediaWiki upgrade.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 18:33, 11 May 2009 (EDT)
::::I asked Scout two(?) days ago, and she said we ''will'' be on our new server come BotCon. That's in two weeks so...
::::(Thankfully, since we have access to the site database, there will be ''much less drama'' involved in the move this time... it ''should'' just '''work''' without any extensive cleanup or patching on our part.
::::<nowiki>*crosses fingers*</nowiki> -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:49, 11 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::I have much more faith in you guys, given that you've shown at least a smidgen of knowledge of good DBA practices.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 18:51, 11 May 2009 (EDT)
::::::Bookworm told me that whenever we're ready, he has a 4 gig database dump he can hand us. (I think it was 4 gigs.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:22, 11 May 2009 (EDT)
::::::Oh, and I saw Scout and McFly talk back and forth about their testing the new server for speed and stability over IRC today. Progress is happening! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:24, 11 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::::A database dump? So should we stop editing? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 19:49, 11 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::If I thought we should stop editing, I would have said so. And in a large font! Hold your horses, cowboy. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:58, 11 May 2009 (EDT)
::::::::Past experience has told me that if we actually reach the point where we need to stop editing, they'll just lock the wiki down. Wiki software is such that if you start from an older backup, it's just a matter of adding the newer revisions in. Definitely not an all-or-nothing affair.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 19:51, 11 May 2009 (EDT)

== Site-up issues ==

I'd be surprised if there wasn't a better place to address this but ... it seems like the site has been down an AWFULLY lot recently. Weren't we plowing the advertising revenue back into hosting? I have a hard time imagining that being down for an effective several hours / day is the best we can do. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 16:54, 5 May 2009 (EDT)
:I've moved this over here, so it can be put in the greater context of the discussion.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 17:03, 5 May 2009 (EDT)
::I'm worried about this too. I think it's rather unacceptable for a website to randomly shut down without warning for hours on end, every day. It's embarrassing when people report to me that the wiki is down, again. What do I tell them? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 18:12, 5 May 2009 (EDT)
:According to our project wonderful stats, we've been getting higher levels of traffic since "[[Decepticon Air]]", which could well be the cause. If we're still here when Revenge of the Fallen starts, I predict CERTAIN DOOOOOOOM! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:18, 5 May 2009 (EDT)
::Oh, if we've not moved to a stable and reliable host when RotF hits, the wiki can stick its' head between its' knees and kiss its' bum goodbye, because everyone and their mother's brother will go to Wikia. I don't think we want that, yes? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 19:02, 5 May 2009 (EDT)
:::I've worked very hard on advertising tfwiki.net and harassing people into visiting this site instead of Wikia, to theoretically support "fellow fans" and because hey, we have better quality information. I really don't want to see it go down during the biggest TF event of this year (and the next few years). --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:18, 6 May 2009 (EDT)
::::Botcon is in 3 weeks. It causes a major traffic upspike.
::::When are we moving to Spherity and Toulin? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 15:22, 7 May 2009 (EDT)

:I'm assuming that [[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] is the one to answer these questions, however she hasn't edited the Wiki since March 28th, her last post on the AllSpark was on March 27th, and she hasn't answered either of the emails I've sent her recently. Has anyone heard from her at all in the last month? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 22:32, 7 May 2009 (EDT)
::One word. '''Finals'''. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 23:07, 7 May 2009 (EDT)
:::Ahhhhhhh! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 23:36, 7 May 2009 (EDT)

== Sluggish performance ==

Is everybody experiencing the sluggish performance I've been getting from this site in the past several hours? I've noticed and have been informed of by others that the site loading very, very slowly, such that tables and templates are not loading properly, such as the section heading images ("Featured Article", "Categories" ect) on the front page. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 10:48, 18 May 2009 (EDT)
:Huh. I thought that was just a problem on my end. --[[User:Professor Icepick|Professor Icepick]] 11:05, 18 May 2009 (EDT)
::Same here. It's been doing it on my end since about 9 pm (eastern time) last night for me. I cleaned my H-drive, C-drive, defragged, etc. thinking it might speed up from the dial-up speed that it was running with. Needless to say, that didn't happen. At least I know ''now'' that it's the site problem.--[[User:AWT88|AWT88]] 11:33, 18 May 2009 (EDT)
:::Ditto on my side and I know it's not because of the earthquake I just got hit by on Sunday night. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 11:53, 18 May 2009 (EDT)
:Seems all right now, though last night when I was trying to edit, it was taking half a minute to load pages. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:00, 18 May 2009 (EDT)
::I hope the promise of a move before BotCon is true, because we've been having more "TFWiki.net has a problem!" messages and general "it ain't loading" issues on regular days. BotCon and then Revenge of the Fallen would pretty much kill this site on the current server it's on. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 02:50, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
:::Never mind that - the TFA finale's this weekend, and it's fallen over for much of the last two Saturdays. If we get to edit ''anything'' Endgame II-related before Sunday, we'll be lucky. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 10:13, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

== Many Happy Returns ==

Heeeeey, this is pretty good. --[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 17:15, 26 May 2009 (EDT)
:It's speedier than the old server, but there's still some wonkiness. For instance, every time I tried editing just this section I got a blank page, but editing the whole page seems to have worked. Also, I keep getting logged out. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:00, 26 May 2009 (EDT)
::I can't even log in. What's going on? -- SFH (cannot log in) 18:01, 26 May 2009 (EDT)
:::I'm thinking there may be some wonkiness related to cookies made before, or even ''during'' the transition. I did get some "session data lost" messages, but after a log out and a log back in, that seems to be resolved.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 18:06, 26 May 2009 (EDT)
::So what exactly do I have to do to be able to log in? -- SFH (desperately trying to log in) 18:19, 26 May 2009 (EDT)
:::You could try clearing your cache and deleting your cookies and see if that helps. Other than that, I'm not sure what to suggest. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:23, 26 May 2009 (EDT)--[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:23, 26 May 2009 (EDT)
:::What are you getting when you try to log in? A blank page? An error message? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:32, 26 May 2009 (EDT)
::::"Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage". Does that help? -- SFH (unable to log in) 19:00, 26 May 2009 (EDT)
:::Welp, I'm on firefox, and I'm logged in, and I'm only editing this section and it's displaying right, so... I'm happy! /:) - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 19:08, 26 May 2009 (EDT)
::::Well, I tried Firefox, and it's working, but still not on Internet explorer. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 19:19, 26 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::Tried here with IE6. No problems logging in, but when I attempted to log out, I got a "Cannot find server or DNS Error" error. The second logout attempt worked, but then when I went to log in again, I got the same error.
:::::Deleting the tfwiki cookie fixed the problem and I was able to log in. In fact now I'm not having any problem at all logging in and out on IE6. The sidebar on the login pages appears messed up in IE though (tis cutting off in the middle of the navigation menu). --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:39, 26 May 2009 (EDT)
:::What is this "Internet Explorer" you speak of? Is it a 3rd party browser? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:37, 26 May 2009 (EDT)
::I'm getting a lot of [http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/1395/tfwikierror.png "The requested URL could not be retrieved"] messages, and the occasional blank page or "loss of session data", myself. - [[User:Magnus Maximus|Magnus Maximus]] 19:47, 26 May 2009 (EDT)
:::I occasionally get the message: ''Sorry! We could not process your edit due to a loss of session data. Please try again. If it still doesn't work, try logging out and logging back in.'' - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 20:13, 26 May 2009 (EDT)
::::So do I. And I did delete my tfwiki cookie, but I still get internet explorer cannot display the webpage. This is getting rediculous. -- SFH 20:18, 26 May 2009 (EDT)

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving2

2009-05-26T23:00:47Z

67.164.210.225: /* Many Happy Returns */

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving2

2009-05-26T22:19:59Z

67.164.210.225:

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving2

2009-05-26T22:01:34Z

67.164.210.225:

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central

2009-03-16T17:49:52Z

67.164.210.225:

==Hey hey, what can I do==
I think at this point we must begin formulating plans based on the assumption that the site is a total loss. This means damage control first, then restoration, then prevention.

Assuming no good news comes through, it seems to me we need to take the following steps. Bein' that I'm not a tech guy, there may be more options than what I'm seeing, but here's what I figure we gotta do:

#take down the bulk of the site's pages so Google's cache will not overwrite them
#figure out a system to make Derik and Abates' caches of Google-archived pages accessible to editors as they come in (Derik mentioned it'll take over a week to get a complete set off Google.)
#if possible, automate the stripping of HTML tags and other non-Wiki goop from those pages before anyone tries to edit them, including Wikia links.
#find a way to divvy up a restoration workload among our 50 or so regular editors.
#find a new server. We would be idiots to remain here.

I still hope most of this will be unnecessary, but at this point, I'm losing faith. -- '''repowers''' [[Special:Contributions/99.140.167.2|99.140.167.2]] 12:08, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
: Spoke with Bookworm several times this morning. He still has a few more computers to search for backups, but, well, at this point I'm going to assume the worst. He is going to try to at least get our user database working. He wasn't aware that was a problem until I let him know. I think Scout is trying to get all the pages downloaded from Google Caching. I've grabbed a few of my own, but she's got, like, thousands of pages so far.
: As for getting a new server... anybody got any ideas? Hell if I know. Frankly, don't listen to me anyway on that. --Walky

::Take everything down immediately. The longer the site stays up as-is, the greater the risk of contaminating Google's March 9th cache and the more linkbacks we send to Wikia. Then we either beg Google for a mass infodump, or.... 50 editors grab 160 pages each. EDIT: or Scout gets them! Thanks, Scout; good to see at least the words "silver lining" in print, even if I don't see the actual thing itself yet.... '''Thylacine 2000'''--[[Special:Contributions/74.73.131.210|74.73.131.210]] 12:17, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::If we take everything down, what are we going to edit back together? WHEN are we going to edit everything back together? Taking it down just delays our ability to fix it. --Walky
::::If we've got our copy of the cache, then site shutdown isn't nearly as important. The main concern is that we'd lose the Google cache. Looking like retards... well, we'll just have to take our lumps there. (I guess we could set permissions for content pages to only logged-in users? Dunno.) -- '''repowers''' [[Special:Contributions/99.140.167.2|99.140.167.2]] 12:30, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

==I am a dumb, stupid man==
Just to get that out of the way. Should have told BK to back off on the database upgrade as soon as I saw his original email, and maybe we shouldn't have been here on this server to begin with. It was my call, after all. I'll do my best to make it up to you. Especially TOOG and McFeely, who did so many pages. When I remembered Google caches stuff at like 7 in the morning and started downloading pages whole-hog, theirs was the work I went after first. BEFORE HOT SHOT. That is how bad I feel. Nobody should have to watch through Energon twice. Or, uh, once. This is a terrible, horrible thing, brought on partially by my own incompetence and unassertiveness. Other people shouldn't have to learn my needed life lessons with me. --Walky

==What we've actually lost==
Okay, I've been trying to assess and give a realistic account of the information we appear to be missing. It's hampered by the lack of a search option, meaing I've been having to hit the random button until I've gotten to a page I can link to, and I may be missing something things, but I believe that we have lost the following sections:
*The work McFeely did on [[Energon (cartoon)|Energon]].
*[[Revelation]]
*[[All Hail Megatron]]
*[[The Reign of Starscream]]
*[[Maximum Dinobots]]
*[[Alliance]]
*[[Defiance]]
*[[Universe (2008)]]
*[[Revenge of the Fallen]] updates.
*Abates screen captures on [[Beast Wars]], [[Beast Machines]], and [[Generation 1]].
*Updated screen captures for [[Transformers Animated]] season 1 and 2.
*Last but not least, all we know of [[Transformers Animated]] season 3.

If I missed anything that stands out, please let me know. If all I've done is seriously depress you, then...I don't really know how to respond to that. -- SFH 13:49, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

Talk:Main Page

2009-03-16T00:11:49Z

67.164.210.225: /* What happened? */

THE FUNNY STAYS.
-The Management

__TOC__

Please use this talk page for discussion about the [[Main Page]].

To discuss site-wide policies, please visit [[Transformers Wiki Talk:Community Portal|the Community Portal talk page]].

==Archives==
*[[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1|Archive1]]
*[[Talk:Main_Page/Archive2|Archive2]]
*[[Talk:Main_Page/Archive3|Archive3]]

==What happened?==

So...what on Earth has happened to the TFWiki? Also, for some reason the old Wikia seems to have gained all of the articles that are now missing from here. (Such as the Season 3 animated stuff)
:Seems to me that we've reverted to a June 2008 version of the database which could be really bad news. Some of my articles [[Macabre]] for example are at the old site but not here, which would make sense since I wrote it in September 2008 before we moved here. I don't even have a login here anymore - Emvee :( [[Special:Contributions/77.102.92.218|77.102.92.218]] 19:31, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::Looks like our brain-damaged friend is back again.
:::There's some more info on the [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=51208&view=findpost&p=1155749 wiki thread in the Allspark forums]. Looks like an upgrade handled very very sloppily. I'm hoping once they restore the old database it'll overwrite the changes made in the interim, seeing as how our favorite Idiot Vandal With No Life is on a rampage. (Sigh.) Wiping out his stupid crap in one go would be priceless. (This is Jeysie, BTW.) --[[Special:Contributions/72.79.219.120|72.79.219.120]] 19:41, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::Thank Primus. I was worried someone had hacked in and deleted the database. The thought of 6 months work lost filled me with dread. --abates 19:46, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::Ditto. Dread all round here too. Good to know it's in hand. --Emvee [[Special:Contributions/77.102.92.218|77.102.92.218]] 19:48, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::You know... assuming it does get overwritten so we don't have to worry about undoing it, watching our pet vandal complain about how the wiki malfunctioning prevents him from vandalizing properly is one of the most morbidly hilarious things I've seen in a while. -Jeysie --[[Special:Contributions/72.79.219.120|72.79.219.120]] 20:07, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::You know, there are some benefits about this. On the one hand, people don't have to worry about being spoiled about TransWarped. On the other, we get to see Assaulthead self-destruct in rage as he can't vandalize the wiki. However, there is one concern: What if they can't retrieve the lost information? -- (SFH) [[Special:Contributions/67.164.210.225|67.164.210.225]] 20:11, 15 March 2009 (EDT)

== Featured article ==

We have had the same thing there for like 50 years{{unsigned|Human in Disguise|02:22, 7 April 2008}}
:Not really. Jhiaxus was only made a Featured Article on March 2, 2008.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 06:05, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::With 6k articles, maybe we could switch the featured article every month?[[User:Spriteless|Spriteless]] 05:45, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
:::We try to when we can, but usually that involves a big push to improve the given article to featured article standards.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 06:30, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
:::: If someone was just going through the Wikia wikis they might assume that this wiki is a bit quiet. What about just chosing some of the bigger articles every now and again? The larger ones tend to the most highly polished, researched and moderated articles. [[User:Drmick|Drmick]] 19:20, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::Some of the big articles need work because alot of the stuff in them was written in 2006 before we established standards. For instance, G1 Ratchet's article was featured last year I believe, but it was really unevenly written in terms of quality. I mean, for some reason half of the article eschewed storylinks in favour of references. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 20:26, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:We probably should set up some ground rules on what makes a featured article. Right now, it's pretty much what ever Walky wants. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 20:34, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Thunderwing, Nice. --[[User:Human in Disguise|Human in disguise]]

Out of curiosity, how often does it change, or is it just on a whim? [[User:Jeep!|Jeep!]] 14:30, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

== front tf page ==

i hate april fool pranks on my fave tf front page -dr
:What? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 23:11, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

== Funny ==
I think we should remove the funny nes on the page, If it stays, It will sound like a child has being messing up this place and Other people will think it doesn't make sense. [[User:Black rhino ranger|Black rhino ranger]] 09:01, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:You're going to find yourself in the minority regarding this opinion.--[[User:Suzyprime|Suzyprime]] 13:02, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

:Actually, Ranger, people are more likely to think this wiki "doesn't make sense" if it's edited by people who can't spell, conjugate, or use capital letters correctly. [[User:JW|JW]] 18:37, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Who made this again. [[User:Black rhino ranger|Black rhino ranger]] 19:55, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:If that's a question, I don't understand it. [[User:JW|JW]] 20:33, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

But we should Make the images Info not funny, Transformers is ment to be serious, not funny. [[Special:Contributions/82.17.140.55|82.17.140.55]] 15:47, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
:Bullshit. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 17:46, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
::Transformers be [[Bee in the City|'''''serious business''''']] yo. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 18:00, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
:Sir, your erudite argument has at last shown me the light. I have been in error all this time, and you have turned the glare of knowledge against the darkness of my ignorance. Verily, we must all change our ways, and treat the stories about outer space robots that turn into cars as Serious Business. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 18:20, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

But it is unencyclopediac. It looks like a two year old vandalism. [[Special:Contributions/82.17.140.55|82.17.140.55]] 11:33, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

:Thanks for sharing your viewpoint, but, you are very much in the minority. If you object that strongly, start your own Transformers wiki and make it boring. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 21:41, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

:: Or just read the transformers entries on wikipedia. I'm also guessing most people don't like it when you call our writing "like a two year old vandalism". [[User:(Undecided)|(Undecided)]] 03:10, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Face it! Not Everyone likes funny wikis. [[Special:Contributions/82.17.140.55|82.17.140.55]] 15:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
:Since we're one of the largest, highest-traffic wikis on Wikia, I don't think the people who object to "the funny" are a significant enough constituency to force us to change.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:27, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
:Not everyone likes peanut butter! Therefore they should stop making peanut butter. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:31, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

==Search==
So, uh, what happened to the ability to type something into the text box, click "search," and not have it take me directly to a page, but give me a list of pages the term appears in instead? There is no search button on the front page! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:37, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:For as long as I've used the wiki, the Search function has only done that for me if what I've typed didn't match the title of any article exactly. As for the front page, I still see the Search box. I don't know if it makes a difference, but I'm using the Monaco skin.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 14:12, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::That doesn't match my experiences. I could type in "Megatron," click Search, and then it'd give me a list of pages that mention "Megatron" in the body of the text. It was very useful. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:54, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::On the topic of the Monaco skin, can we get some admin feedback on the Monaco skin discussion, please? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:32, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::To be sure, yes, that would be useful. As it is, now you'd have to type something like "Megatron's" or "Megatron" and another word to get similar results. And yeah, I've seen notices for the admins from [[User:Toughpigs|Toughpigs]] asking for feedback and wondered when that was going to be resolved.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 15:13, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:Regarding the search box - typing something into the box and hitting "enter," or clicking "go," is the option that takes you directly to the page with the title you've typed. Typing something into the box and actually clicking the button marked "search" is the option that brings up a list of stuff containing the term, and that's the button we appear to have lost here (although on my screen at least, it's coming and going intermittently, but that's probably a browser cache thing). I've not got the Monaco skin on, but regarding that, I rather like it, and I'd like to see it implimented. There's something very "bare bones" about our set up here, and of course, I know that we kinda have that as a show of "not taking everything too seriously," but I'd personally like to see the Monaco skin in use. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 15:30, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::The same function is in the "Advanced Search" link. Am I the only one who sees it or something? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 18:17, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Cripes, I can't insert a comment before three more jump in before me. No, there's definitely no Search button visible in the Monaco skin as I'm using it, just an arrow with a magnifying glass icon in it (the equivalent of the "Go" button, obviously). I see the "Advanced search" link too, but it doesn't offer quite the same function, in that it doesn't default to the "all text occurrences" option. Rather, you have to choose settings to get that. Not a terrible extra step, but still...--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 18:32, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I see the advanced search link. I also ''REALLY LIKE'' the new 'random page image link' above the search box. Who do I have to thank for that? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 18:28, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I put it in, but it was Siph's idea. Breaking the "Search" button under non-Monaco themes was also my doing, I'm afraid; I was a little zealous with putting in a more useful search and it didn't quite work. It should be back in a day or two. I somehow totally missed any discussion on Monaco coming up; I'll get to commenting on that. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 19:50, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Primarily Wookieepedia for the idea, Blitz for the implementation, and I suppose me for harraunging her about it. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:48, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::A random page on search function is really a good idea because that would make us know about more characters. By the way, I think there still need a normal ''search button'' in the original place . :D --[[User:TX55|TX55]] 01:37, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Then I thank you guys for it. '''IF''' we switch to Monaco, is there any way to do a similar function with that skin? I think the function is very helpful for newcomers to the wiki (and Transformers in general) for they don't have to look through lists of names or randomly search for things. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:17, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::::I don't think it'd be too hard. If we ''do'' switch to Monaco, there'd need to be some changes done to the search box anyway, since under that, there's no "search" button. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 05:56, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
: Is there a way to make the search image load earlier? Right now it's the very last thing to load; even the flash ads come up earlier. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 02:24, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
:: The short answer is no, unfortunately. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 05:56, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Why does the bar show pictures of random characters, but when you go to their pages they have no visual representation? [[User:90.198.228.42|90.198.228.42]] 20:28, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
:Because... I don't know really. I don't know why the powers-at-be chose to create these little search pictures for characters that have no pictures. One would think if they had a reasonably sized image to create the search button picture, they could have uploaded the full size image for the page itself. And/or create searchbox pic-links for characters that DO have decent visual representation AND largely completed articles. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 22:39, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
==Familial relationships==

Should we put something up, relating to the idea of siblings or such[[User:GWolfv2]]
:See [[Relatives]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:07, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

== Redesigning the front page ==

Now that the Monaco skin is the default, and Toughpigs is around to help us out, I suggest we figure out a way to redesign the front page so it isn't just a columns of text. Is there any reasonable way for us to have the franchises in the By Series (or anywhere else, really) represented by the franchise logos? The logos can be as recognisable as the names alone, and given we're getting more and more visitors every day, it would be helpful to make the place more visually pleasing and more user-friendly. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 20:30, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
:I think that's still a [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive2#Logos_for_.27By_series.27_column|bad idea]]. The logos were never designed to look good together, and some (like the 2007 movie) are anti-informative. If you can present a design that somehow makes it work, please do. But I don't see how the new skin changes the basic problems. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 20:56, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
::I tend to think the Main Page and its columns of text are just fine as is. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 21:04, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
::Also, wouldn't it perhaps be best to wait a few days for everyone to get home from BotCon before starting a discussion on more major changes like this? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 21:08, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Didn't stop Toughpigs redesigning the whole Wiki... - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:18, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Toughpigs has been touting the switch to Monaco for quite some time, and he only finally got the nod from an admin just before BotCon.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 23:22, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
Just wanted to say I love the new look.

===Ad bar issues with Monaco?===
I don't know if it's just me, but trying to load the Wiki in Firefox results in it loading everything up to the adserver stuff, and then Firefox proceeds to hang the fuck up, completely use up all available memory, and force me to kill it through Task Manager. It's kind of a pain in the ass.(I'm using explorer right now) [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 00:22, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
:I've had no troubles with Firefox 2, nor Firefox 3 beta 5.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 00:37, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

== Improvement Drive ==
I have no idea how long the "Improvement Drive" column has been there, but it's a great idea, content-wise. However, IMO the links it contains should really be a permanent part of the Help/Start Here column. It's the kind of thing I was talking about [http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Transformers_Wiki_talk:Community_Portal#.22First_go_here.21__Next_go_here..22 a while ago]. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 22:56, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
:Giving this a bump. Input, anyone? Anyone? If nobody protests, I'd like to merge the contents of the "Improvement drive" section with the "Start here" section. Perhaps a blurb on a more specialized improvement drive -- say, our long-dormant BW improvement drive -- could take the place of the current one. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 20:20, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
::Giving this one last bump. If nobody objects, I'm making the changes. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 00:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:One of the reasons the Improvement Drive was disbanded on Wookieepedia was because we instead formed projects such as "Tales of the Jedi project" "The New Essential Chronology project". This allowed us to focus on groups of articles which were in need of updating instead of simply one article. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 00:42, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:::I fully support a "Project" initiative. (Cough cough prose stories cough.) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:07, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::::I can definitely live with that - it looks like one of the new users is actually working on RiD stuff, which is an area that I've felt could use more coverage - it's not my area of knowledge, tho. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 01:43, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::Yeah. I know a lot about the fiction in GENERAL, but when it comes to what happened in what specific episodes and issues? Not so much. Toys are more my forte... --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:49, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::It doesn't help that most of us would need to import the DVDs to write about the fiction. I've been thinking of doing that, but I've already bought a couple of hundred dollars worth of TF DVDs I don't really need soley for writing and screen capping articles for the wiki, which upon reflection is a little insane. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:03, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Please see [[User:Repowers/Sandbox]] for a test page. Feel free to tweak and/or comment. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 04:52, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
:I weaked the disclaimer, added a countdown to TF2 clock (the page de-caches a couple times a day, so it should remain accurate without having to re-edit, I did a sandbox text to verify) and I got rid of the clickable Animated logo, sicne that template still isn't working right and I haven't figured out how to make it work right.
:Re:Improvement Drive... How about we have a 'goals' list for the month? Like, 20 or 30 articles we want to get up to snuff, chosen for balance. A lot of piddling pages, a few episodes or comics no one's gonna get around to on their own, and one or two major character pages. We can track 'em at the end of the month and see how successful we were. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:47, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
::Giving this a bump.
::About the list of "ways to help"... thing is, those up-front lists should be geared toward attracting new editors -- new editors who by definition aren't going to know all the million little persnickety formatting things you have to know to set up a new page. Stuff like "fill in a stub" or "add storylinks" is a lot less intimidating, and a lot easier to slide into, than "here, make this page from scratch." I think an expanded list, akin to what's on my sample sandbox, should be near the top of the page, rather than a bunch of red links. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 22:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

== Main "Transformers Animated" image ==

It really ought to be clickable. Unfortunately, [[:Template:Click]] currently doesn't actually let you center an image-- it probably needs to be rewritten at some point. Unless someone else volunteers, this is mostly just a reminder to myself. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 18:53, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
:Someone just did that and now the link messes up the main page by covering the links to "Comics", "Generation 1", "(toyline/cartoon/comic)", "Generation 2", and "Help contents". Ugh, it was better off the way it was before. Besides, there was a link to the Animated franchise below the giant logo. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 23:27, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
::What poor excuse for a browser are you using? The TFA logo is ''above'' all that stuff. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 23:35, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
:::The image is, but the link is stretching down over the ones below it. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 23:59, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
::::I'm using Firefox, and the link ends WAY before that. I have no troubles whatsoever. - [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 00:20, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
::::Sabrblade, to repeat- "What browser are you using?" -[[Special:Contributions/75.168.112.43|75.168.112.43]] 01:35, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::Internet Explorer 7 is my browser on this particular computer (I use at least three different ones). --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 20:31, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::Well ''there's'' your problem. IE doesn't follow correct HTML protocol, and each version has a different way of not following it. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 21:19, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Just realized I'm having the same problem, using Firefox. The link to [[Transformers Animated (franchise)]] from the image is like, bleeding down or something, covering up some of the links below it. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 18:43, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::::Well, is there any other browser besides Internet Explorer and Firefox that doesn't have the problem? --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 01:31, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::I just went and had a look at [[:Template:Click]] and tried a few things, but it's beyond me. Can we not just do it in html? It would be a hell of a lot simpler...[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 12:51, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::Well, with the "no TF:A Dubai spoilers" text written by Chris McFeely, the image no longer covers the G1 and G2 links. It still bleeds down, but only over the link-free text. So until that text gets erased, the image bleeding isn't much of a problem (but it will be again once that text is gone).[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 01:02, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::Still covers them for me, and I'm using the latest Firefox. I'm going to edit this until someone can come up with a better solution - removing the Dubai text will just make it bleed lower down the page, surely... [[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 16:37, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::::If any one isn't getting the problem [http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h278/Undecided_tmn/Mainpage_error.jpg here is what it looks like] to me. It's the blue highlighted box. [http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h278/Undecided_tmn/Mainpage_error_IE-1.jpg Here is what it looks like in Internet Explorer]. Screen resolution is 1280x1024. [[User:(Undecided)|(Undecided)]] 22:15, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:I replaced it with an imagemap so it links directly to [[Transformers Animated (franchise)]]. Given that the same image is at the top of that page, I don't think we need the main page to link to the Image page if the only way of doing so messes up the rest of the page. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 21:50, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
::Imagemap is working on wikia now? Yay! IIRC it wasn't 18 months ago when you originally took a stab at <nowiki>{{click}}</nowiki> -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:10, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Just to check, can imagemap be set to pave part of the image link to the Image page, or is Click the only thing that can do that. (You'd think a template specificly created for use on the Wikia wiki wouldn't have these issues) --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 22:14, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
::::Wikipedia has a template like this that puts a little blue 'i' in the corner of an image- you click on that to get info about it. In this case it's moot-- a single click takes you to the TFA page that lets you access the image info. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:18, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

=="TF dates"?==
Something else Wookiepedia does on its frontpage we... might want to look at stealing... Putting up a "__/__/__: _____ was released" history box. I dunno. It would only be for like comic books, DVDs, TV episodes, street-release-date toys, etc. Though I dunno if TF really has enough... stuff to do that with. I dunno. Idle thought. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:47, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
:On paper, that's a cool idea. In execution, yeah, I don't think there's quite enough stuff to do it with. We know original episode air dates, and roughly know the street dates of the various comic issues, but we generally have no idea when various and sundry toys hit shelves before, what, '94? If we had enough stuff that there was something to put up at least twice a week (as a "This Week in TF History" thing) I'd say go for it. I guess we could stretch it and add birth dates of TF professionals and that sort of thing, but even then, we're a little sparse, I'd imagine. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 10:42, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

==Front page weirdness==
When clicking on the link for the Generation 1 (comic) or Generation 2 (comic) on the front page, I get taken to Animated (franchise)...but looking at the code the links appear to be correct, else I'd edit them. I've tried refreshing several times but the link is still wrong...anyone else seeing this? [[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 12:11, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] aha, just seen the discussion above about the link "bleeding down"...that would explain it [[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 12:15, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

==Search==
The current search bar only has a "Go" button,we can't look for articles by using keywords now. How are we supposed to look for things we don't know the name of now?[[Special:Contributions/86.87.28.191|86.87.28.191]] 20:54, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:Isn't there a "Search" button right next to the "Go" button? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 20:57, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::I don't think there is a search button on the new skin but if you log in and set the wiki back to monobook in your preferences then you'll have a search button [[User:Donutter|Donut]] 21:02, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
: Are we talking Monaco skin, the one with the little arrow with the magnifying glass in it at the very top-left? Or the Monobook skin? I just put "thunder" in the former, clicked the arrow, and boom (ha ha), search results. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 21:23, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::But "Thunder" isn't the name of an article. If it were, it would just give you the article without any other search results, even if you clicked on the magnifying-glass arrow. I can't tell if that's what the anthropomorphic IP address above was asking, but I do know I dislike the reduced functionality of Monaco's search box. As far as I can tell, typing a word and hitting Enter is the same as clicking the arrow. You CAN still search for all occurrences of a word by going to the "Search" link underneath the sidebar. But that's annoying for the need to go to a whole 'nother page. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 04:46, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Nevermind,i figured it out now. Just type "Search:" and then the keywoard before pressing enter. for example,to search for Optimus Prime without annoyingly being redirected,type Search:Optimus Prime .[[Special:Contributions/86.87.28.191|86.87.28.191]] 18:33, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
==Disambig pages==

I've seen three formats. The general, more common one like the Screamer one, the Prime style one and the BB one. Shouldn't we just stick with the one?[[User:GWolfv2]] 21.34 May 23rd
:The Prime page has to be like it is because there are so many things with "Prime" in their name that they need to be split. And why would we have a disambuig page for [[BB]]? If you're talking about Bumblebee, I don't think that page should be like that. Pictures do not help when the differences between one character's different bodies is about the same as the difference between his body and one belonging to another guy with the same name. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 22:00, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

==Prime Image==
Should an image Animated Prime be added to the front page? maybe replace Movie Prime in the picture if it needs to be a particular size? i think it should be updated to reflect the most modern incarnation of the character [[Special:Contributions/78.32.44.57|78.32.44.57]] 16:34, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
:Problem is, the front page's image is all from Takara's World Of Transformers page. We tried to add AniPrime in there but he didn't fit one bit, so until something better comes along, I do believe this image is going to stay as is. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 16:47, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

==Universe 2008==
I think you should ad a Universe 2008 link in the "by Series" section.
[[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:46, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:Never mind, I got it. I didn't know I could edit the main page.[[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 17:07, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

== The Irony ==

:In a wiki about transformers their alt modes aren't even mentioned ANYWHERE! I find this odd... {{SUBST::User:Crystal lucario/Sig}} 21:06, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::There's two articles on popular vehicle and animal modes, transformation article etc. You can't list alt with every character when some don't stick with the one [[User:GWolfv2]] 22.11 June 4th
:::You can find the altmodes for characters, usually, on the Toys section of their articles. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:57, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::::Ok, thanks. {{SUBST::User:Crystal lucario/Sig}} 11:19, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::psst- subst has to be lowercase. Also- too many colons. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 11:24, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Just as an example, G1 Optimus is often a semi-cab, but he's also officially transformed into...
* Cybertronic Mobile artillery (Marvel comics, pre-Earth)
* Sportscar (G2)
* Organic bat (super-early BW)
* Cybertronic truck-thing (War Within)
* HISS tank (Devil's Due G.I. Joe)
* Cybertronic pickup (e-hobby Orion Pax toy)
* Some kind of prehistoric animal (Hearts of Steel)
Plus, there was a canceled dump truck Optimus in G2, and plans to make him into a train for Hearts of Steel as well. I don't remember what he turned into for DW's Joe crossover. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 14:52, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
:Psst- I come from another wikia so it thought I had a sig. And to M Sipher thank you. I still think that should be somewhere in the artical. Maybe under Forms... {{SUBST::User:Crystal lucario/Sig}} 23:08, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Y'know, it just recently occurred to me that when we scan characters' profile art, we should probably include more than their robot mode. For instance, it seemed like [[:Image:Primal_FPUnivBio.jpg|this pic]] was served by including the gorilla mode because it emphasized the fact that it wasn't his original beast form. Then I uploaded [[:Image:SoundwaveCyb_FPbio.jpg|this image]] and included the jet because it was a particularly well-drawn alt mode. And now that I've done that... I'm going to make a point of including alt-modes whenever I can. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 02:39, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
:To save on space (tall images are the BANE of the wiki), I placed the smaller images (such as the alt mode) over part of the large images in a picture, such as [[:Image:G1Bomb-Burst_MTMTE1.jpg|what I did for Bomb Burst]]. Of course, I also mostly did it so the uploaded pics would look similar to the original Pretender boxart arrangement (shell behind, robot in the middle, vehicle in the foreground).
:Little Iron's Soundwave looks GREAT, btw. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

== 'Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen' countdown ==
There's 381 days (as of June 9th, 2008) until 'TF2:ROTF' comes out and already there's a countdown box? I know it's too late to remove it, but don't you think it's a ''little'' too soon to put one up? It's like this one 'Garfield' comic strip that was printed on December 26th with Garfield shutting off his alarm clock and declaring "365 days until Christmas!". Well, atleast the box isn't counting down the hours, minutes, and seconds. -[[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 12:47, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
:I started counting down the days in my head as soon as I learned the release date. I think it's all in good fun, no reason to remove it. [[User:(Undecided)|(Undecided)]] 01:13, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

== Since no one said anything... ==

The last discussion of a 'goals' list for the month... somewhere... petered out, so I just threw some on the front page. (Mostly nonexistant wanted articles.) They have a 'star' rating to show how complete they are which you can easily edit. Hopefully we can get these to 5 stars by the end of June! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
:Stubbed two of them already, hopefully with enough info that people can pick up easily.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 04:09, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

:As I said above -
:About the list of "ways to help"... thing is, those up-front lists should be geared toward attracting new editors -- new editors who by definition aren't going to know all the million little persnickety formatting things you have to know to set up a new page. Stuff like "fill in a stub" or "add storylinks" is a lot less intimidating, and a lot easier to slide into, than "here, make this page from scratch." I think an expanded list, akin to what's on my sample sandbox, should be near the top of the page, rather than a bunch of red links. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 22:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
::I would be for that. I wanted a lost of articles that needed to be brought to completion that were already clocked in. I just didn't know which to pick! Sub some out!
::I just-- I like the list because it gives a visible sense of progress (at the end of the month) on articles that no one would be inclined to work on on their own. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:59, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

==Should we have info boxes==
{{Transformers character|
name =Blitzwing
|image =blitzwing-animated.jpg
|caption =
|affiliation =Decepticon
|subgroup =Voyagers [[Triple Changer]]
|function =Berserker
|partner =
|motto =''"Whoooo, I'm freaking out!"'' <ref>[http://www.hasbro.com/transformers/animated/default.cfm?page=Bio&character=blitzwing Character bios for Transformers Animated characters]</ref>
|alternatemodes = Dual-Barreled Assault Tank/Fighter Jet
|series =[[Transformers: Animated]]
|engvoice = [[Bumper Robinson]]
|japanvoice =
}}

It is to include some detail like this for example

:It was decided against long ago for many logistical nightmare reasons, the primary ones being that so many characters have very different bodies, affiliations, functions, mottos, jump continuities... --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
:It would be a nightmare. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:32, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmmmmm, I see. [[Special:Contributions/82.17.140.55|82.17.140.55]] 09:26, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
:What is Optimsu Prime (G1)'s altmode? He's has close to 50. Even if 50% of them are trucks... the other 25 aren't. Character abilities, weapons and allegiance have shifted over ltierally millions of years, as have their bodies, catchphrases, names- and even genders.
:We've taken a serious look at character boxes at least 3 times, and every proposal, no matter comprehensive, it's easy to find a character for which the box simply... ''breaks'', being unable to accommodate the diversity of experience the character has had.
:Character boxes are a good idea, they provide a quick thumbnail overview of a character's history... but we don't want thumbnail overviews, we want in-depth infromation. If you wanted a thumbnail overview, go to Wikipedia, which deletes and trims articles containing 'unnecessarily in-depth information.' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 09:43, 14 June 2008 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"> From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</div>