MediaWiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Transformer afterlife

2007-02-18T22:33:17Z

67.188.23.44: /* Confusion by Beast Wars team */

The Allspark may be connected to The Well Of All Sparks from War Within.

Infact, it seems quite probable that the Allspark is simply an abbreviated term for The Well Of All Sparks, which lies deep underground, close to the heart of Cybertron.

== Other Names ==

I always assumed that The Allspark was just a disambiguation of Primus. Which is what I also thought about The Matrix (not the Leadership variety), The Oracle and Vector-Sigma.

And apparently I was misinformed.

And Knowing is half the battle.

The Primus Alpha trion chats with int he TFU comics is vastlly different from the alllsparkk Primal and Botanica commune with during Beast machines.
the confusion is that the Allspark, the Oracle, and Primus are so... interlocked. Th Allspark, for instance, onyl seems to 'step in' halfway through BM when Megatron's corrupting program has rendered the Oracle unable to get shit done, and it friggin' NEEDS someone to do something.
Oracle = Semi-cryptic
Allspark = Acid Trip metaphor-visions
Primus = Capable of witty conversation
basically, that's how you can easily tell them apart. (especialyl when you start getting into things liek Cybertron Primus, which is more disembodied.)

Hell, Primus is complicated enough by himself. The way I see it, the Oracle is just an evolved Quint AI program.

The Allspark is the absolute essence of Primus. A Transformers Spark is just a tiny tiny portion of the Allspark. Primus's essence is ALL the Allspark. His perspective is such that he's utterly beyond mortal comprehension. However, if he feels like it, he can "talk down" to us by one means or another.

It's like Primus lets tiny "pieces" of himself go so that they can gain knowledge & experience and then eventually return, bringing it all back to him. It's a neat way of "powering up" while he's "sleeping", and it was probably part of Primus's plan to defeat Unicron, given how poorly he seemingly did the first time around.

== Fancruft alternate theory ==

When I was watching Beast Wars / Machines, I saw it monotheistically. That is, Primus was not the Allspark, but the Creator of the Universe AND the Allspark. The Allspark was, in my interpretation, a multidimensional being of much power and little experience. When the Quintessons needed a true randomization and personality generator for their robots, they used pieces of the AllSpark. This is the reason all Transformers long to "all be one". This is based on G1 and BW/BM only, so comics and later TV and comic series can't be viewed this way, but it was remarkably self-consistent with the show at the time. --[[User:71.213.138.218|71.213.138.218]] 23:10, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

== Confusion by Beast Wars team ==
It seems to me that, when watching the Generation 1 film, Prime stated "Soon, I shall be one with the Matrix." As it was later revealed, the Matrix was where the wisdom of ancient Autobots was contained to bring strength and guidance to the current Prime.
His statement, however, could have lead to the confusion between the Allspark and the Matrix, which are obviously two totally different things. The Beast Wars writers must have assumed that, since the Matrix is a piece of Primus, and the Allspark is Primus's collective spark, that the Matrix was another name for the Allspark. Of course, there was no evidence to support that all Autobots transcended to the "Matrix," since Prime had only indicated that he himself would join the Matrix. In an attempt to add depth to the series, as we all know, the Beast Wars team did indeed invent the concept of the spark well AFTER Generation 1, but one can see where the confusion lies in retrospect. It is such that I feel that the fandom should recognize the "Matrix," as singularily the item of power which becomes fused with the spark of the Prime, and the "Allspark," is the Well of Sparks, and the originator/afterlife of the Transformers, and not get the two confused at all.
: There have been plenty of Generation 1 stories after Beast Wars that took the Spark/Allspark concept onward. Check out the MTMTE profile guide (and probably the DK Ultimate Guide), in the back, where it talks about these concepts at length. Also, the article at [[retcon]]. Brilliant textwork! --[[User:67.188.23.44|67.188.23.44]] 22:33, 18 February 2007 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Main Page

2007-02-18T01:05:51Z

67.188.23.44: /* Plain dumb */

This front page needs to be redesigned to be more useful.

One problem is that it claims to have a list of categories, but it's actually a list of pages that list other pages. "Categories" have a special meaning in MediaWiki related to adding category tags at the bottom of an article. The main page's link to a "complete category list" is the real category list, as understood by the wiki's database. The lists... need to be called something else.

I do think it's useful to have links on the front page linking to lists of toylines, TV shows, comic series/publishers, etc.. It just needs to be presented differently. I don't at the moment have a good idea for how to do it, though.

--[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 07:55, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Reverted, because our Wiki is not >Beeping< stupid.

I propose a site name change to 'The Witwicky Transformers Wikipedia'.

"Just check the Witwicky!" And we could laugh at our pun, EVERY TIME. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 11:43, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I '''hate''' the image above the Search field. I '''especially''' hate that clicking on it does nto direct me to, say, the advanced search page, but instead the front page. But '''mostly''' I think it fits horribly witht he page, and my eye 'trips' over it and has to re-orient itself every time i go over to click int he search field. "Uh, okay, right, gotta be sure not to click on that."

I just find it... '''unfriendly.''' Other opinions? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 12:55, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Basically like the main page revision. But, aren't "Universe" and "Timelines" intended to be the same continuity?--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 23:53, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

:I have no idea. If they are, feel free to remove one of them, but I've never followed either of the comics, so I wouldn't know. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 00:16, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

::Sort of? Timelines is basically a spin of of Universe in... another Universe. It'll probably be easier to keep it its own continuity for clarity's sake. - [[User:Vanguard|Vanguard]]

:::If Timelines is the continuity of the club comic (not actually a given), don't the events of that series, which now have been linked to the events of the Universe comic, put them together? The fact that Prime and Magnus have been explicitly pulled from one group to another shouldn't make too much difference here, since both are explicitly continuity-hopping continuities. (uhh, yeah.)--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 18:26, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
::::I've always disagreed with Steve's take on the [[Continuities]] page that the fan club comic is a Timelines story. As has been said, Timelines is just a sequence of unrelated story branch-offs, and the fan club comic takes place in the Cybertron cartoon universe. (It's LABELLED a Cybertron story, not Timelines, so that much should be obvious.) Timelines is definitely its own thing. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:18, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

:::In any event, if we're talking "for clarity's sake," I find it clearer to have ''fewer'' titles to follow, rather than more. Perhaps you see it differently.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 18:27, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

::There also IS a legal issue involved as well, but I'm not sure on the details involved. I suppose it doesn't matter too much, and maybe we should treat Timelines as a sequel to Universe? - [[User:Vanguard|Vanguard]]

Timelines and Universe are unrelated. Universe refers to a very specific cross-multiverse battle between agents of Primus and Unicron in direct confrontation. Timelines is just off-continuity one-shot stories with vague connections (if any) to whatever jumping-off point they feel like. 2006's "Timelines" entry may very well have no relation to 2005's whatsoever, or 2007... as such, they should remain separate. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 21:08, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

A possible cause for confusion may be that the fan club comic appears to share continuity with the Universe story. However, the fan club comic is, strangely, not "Transformers Timelines" but is simply called "Transformers Cybertron". So far the only Timelines story is what we got at BotCon 2005. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 21:28, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
:I expect that we'll see that "Timelines" is the line they release the next "freebie" under when it finally arrives. Time will tell on that. For the moment, you're quite right. I'm still not sure I agree with M Sipher above, but it seems clear that I'm outvoted. So be it.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 00:26, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

The info that Timelines is intended to be a series of unconnected, standalone tales comes from conversations with Ben Yee and Karl Hartman. They, like Legends, are all basically "what if" stories. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 02:03, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

If Timelines is just going to be a bunch of random stories without regard to continuity, then it sounds like it probably wouldn't be too appropriate to have it listed under Continuities on the main page. Since, uh, there isn't any continuity. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 03:12, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Anyone else think it'd be cool to have a different page for each figure? [[User:Doogles|Doogles]] 19:07, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
: It's called tfu.info. :) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:08, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
::Sho'nuff is. Shows what I know :( [[User:Doogles|Doogles]] 00:51, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

== Plain dumb ==

I like this site but the comments bellow the pictures (such as megatron) are foolish comments that do not meke any sence i am just about ready to go on a masive cleaning spree whiping out your comments and placing text there that is USEFULL duh!!!!!!!!!! god if a new commer saw you comment on one of megatron's they wouldent know what you where talking about CHANGE IT pleese

Sory for the spelling

:This wiki isn't meant to be 100% serious and neutral like the Wikipedia and almost every other wiki there is. We allow for humour in the biographies, captions and sometimes the body of the article itself. We also sometimes write from the perspective of the character, for humour.
:Because if there's one thing Transformers fans do, its that they take their Transformers too seriously. So please don't go around editing the articles unless you are contributing, thanks. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 09:05, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

: If by "usefull" (sic) you mean "boring and horrendously, pointlessly redundant text of zero value to anyone", sure. And if a "new commer" (sic) is somehow confused by a caption under a picture of a Megatron to the point of not being able to ''look at the rest of all the information on the screen and the title of the page'' to determine which one this was, then frankly, how the hell did they even turn on the computer without inadvertently killing themselves? (And besides... Lucas' website-gurus luvvy-luv our wiki and its humor.) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:48, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

you are all fools!!!!!!!!!!!!!! a wiki is a place for finding info not for finding stupid hummor
::Quick, find this guy a spelling wiki!
: Well, for one, you can find ''tons'' of information here. I don't see where having humor removes the information. Show me an actual example of failure to find information because of the existence of a piece of humor in place of "THIS IS A PICTURE OF GENERATION 1 MEGATRON", which, when seen on a Generation 1 Megatron page with accompanying text talking about Generation 1 Megatron, evokes the response "well no shit" from anyone with two neurons to run a spark between.
: And for two, I wasn't aware that there was some Officially Mandated Standard on what can and can't be done on a wiki. Where, ''exactly'', is it said that all wiki everywhere cannot have jokes?
: And for three, maybe before you start accusing people of being "fools", you might want to look into proper spelling, capitalization, punctuation and sentence structure. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:04, 18 February 2007 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Vok

2007-02-15T20:19:27Z

67.188.23.44:

How can the Vok be descended from the Swarm if they occur 4 million years before the swarm existed?

: What you do is you get a starship and if you slingshot around the sun at just the right trajectory... seriously, it's not like timetravel is particularly hard in the TFU. Basically, so the story goes, they felt bad about screwing up humanities future so they traveled back to muck with our past. [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 11:15, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

::but they didnt' screw up humanity's future, since Humanity apparently survived to depart Gaea when the Amogolis infected it. More, in G2, the Swarm's attentionw as rivited on the Autobot basecamp, and there is no TIME int he story for it to have stopepd to destroy humanity, nor does it fit the tone.
::Attoning, possibly, but for the swatht hey cut throught he galaxy, nto for killign Humanity- 'cuz humanity wasnt' killed. Humanity was just part of the form their expiation took. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:59, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

IIRC, it wasn't the Swarm that killed humanity, it was Jhiaxus.--[[User:82.41.82.183|82.41.82.183]] 20:05, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
: Jhiaxus only killed San Francisco. --[[User:67.188.23.44|67.188.23.44]] 20:19, 15 February 2007 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Nemesis Part 2

2007-02-15T20:18:26Z

67.188.23.44: decapitalization of common nouns

{{disambig3|Nemesis}}

'''Writers:''' [[Simon Furman]]

The end of the [[Beast Wars]]. [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]] has possession of the [[Nemesis]], and [[Optimus Primal (BW)|Optimus]] and the [[Maximal|Maximals]] need a last minute miracle to stop him.

'''Major characters (in order of appearance):''' Characters

'''Minor characters (in order of appearance):''' Characters

'''Original air date:''' May 7, 1999

==Summary==
Extended summary

==Notes==
===Technical/Animation glitches===
*Glitch

===Continuity errors===
*Although it was cut from the final episode for time, the script called for G1 Megatron's spark to be removed from BW Megatron and placed back in its proper body before the Maximals leave Earth. This very brief scene was animated, and a clip of it can be seen on [http://bwtf.com/bw/tvshow/episodes/seasonthree/nem2/ BWTF.com's page for the episode].

===Transformers references===
*References

===Real-world references===
*The lines Megatron reads from the ''[[Covenant of Primus]]'' bear some similarities to lines from English translations of another supposedly prophetic book, ''The Bible'' of [[Earth]]'s [[human]]s. However, it is unknown whether the prophecies of ''The Bible'' are similarly related to time travel.

==External links==
*[http://bwtf.com/bw/tvshow/episodes/seasonthree/nem2/ BWTF.com page for Nemesis, Part 2], which includes a cut clip from that episode showing the restoration of G1 Megatron's spark
[[Category:Beast Wars episodes]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Matrix of Leadership

2006-10-31T16:36:32Z

67.188.23.44:

*wide eyed*
I thought the Matrix contained the accumulated wisdom of the ages?

In the cartoons, yes. In the comics, however, it contained the essence of Primus, and as such was what allowed Prime to give life to new Transformers/destroy Unicron with it.

The Matrix of Leadership accumulated the Wisdom of the Ages by being a portal to the Allspark. When a Transformer is alive, it grows in knowledge, and when it dies, its Spark returns to the Allspark and adds its experience to the whole. --ItsWalky

So... how exactly dids it 'use up' the wisdom of the ages in Return of Optimus Priem then?
...and for that matter, how the hell did they recharge it with a nuclear power plant? ;-)

The Matrix serves many different purposes. It's a Tchotke of Ultimate Power, or - literally - a Deus-Ex-Machina.

I think it's referred to as The PowerPack in the Japanese continuity, and at this is the simplest example of it's functionality - a large battery.

It is also the Prime Matrix. It essentially contains Primus's "blueprints" for the Transformer race, which are continually reinterpreted by Vector Sigma, in association with the knowledge and sparks of those Transformers who have returned to the Allspark. (I suspect that this is why Vector Sigma occasionally requires that the Matrix be brought to it - so that it can be updated)

It is also these days, most likely home to the Creation Matrix, a program which was at one point resident in Optimus Prime (and Buster Witwicky's) head.

It is sometimes referred to as The Autobot Matrix of Leadership, though it seems like this is a mostly ceremonial thing - It is possible to lead the Autobots without it, but it's usually placed in possession of the leader for safekeeping.

Finally, it is - or has evolved into, at least in some continuities, an entity in it's own right
--ttk

== Japanese Matrix confusion. ==

-BW2 and Neo's Matrices are NOT the Matrix of Leadership. They are seperate, OTHER Matrixes. They should be listed on a pages about Matrixes, not on the MoL page, which has a rich and stories history without involving the other things.

-FIRE CONVOY DID NOT HAVE A MATRIX. yes, I know his toy was designed with one? It's his Power Filter. The producers of the CR series didnt' want to deal with matrix-shit, so they made it his Power Filter. That's why he plugs an energy cable right into it one episode while recharging.

Rid DUBBED that power filter back into beign the Matrix of Leadership. Yes, it's stupid and complicated, but that's hwo it is. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 08:54, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I was just about to note this. I just remembered I'd deleted this crap once before for the same reason. X-Bob, seriously, learn to spell and stop spamming this wiki with the same stuff over and over -- or otherwise manage to be useful somehow -- or you're going bye-bye. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 09:04, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

The Spelling complaint I can understand, but spamming? [[User:X-BoB58|X-BoB58]] 12:23, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

:Perhaps I'm Wrong, but this is what I've been Told many a time by several different sources. When they were producing BWII (or perhaps when they were producing Neo--who the hell knows anymore) the Japanese Continuity Guys decided that at some point after G1, under unknown circumstances, the Matrix of Leadership was fragmented or split up and a fragment was given to each member of the Convoy Council (or only the best members, or something like that.) This is why LioConvoy and Big Convoy have Matrixes, even though they probably couldn't be 'technically' called the Matrix of Leadership, it's definitely supposed to be a fragment of it. But Anyway. Fire Convoy would also, in theory, have this in his chest (Although Fire Convoy, and indeed most of the RID-related cast, has a questionable existance 'in' the original continuity, but for the moment we'll assume that they do exist). So he plugs a cable into it in one ep. That doesn't mean much--Big Convoy used to hook his Matrix up to the Big Cannon. But yeah. Those three are definitely shards of the Matrix of Leadership. Now, whether this is worth actually mentioning or not, that's up to you. >.> [[User:Onslaught Six|Onslaught Six]] 07:38, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I wanna write an article for the Beast Wars II and Neo versions of the Matrix, but you guys don't want it on this page. So what should I name it, then? They are Matrices of Leadership, just not THE Matrix of Leadership. So what would be a good name to use "Matrix of Leadership (BW)"? No?--[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 00:12, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

:I don't... THINK they had names. I think an article called 'Lioconvoy's Matrix' would be fine. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:28, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

But should I make seperate articles for Big Convoy's Matrix and Optimus Primal's/Beast Convoy's Matrix? Or should I just bunch em all under Lioconvoy's Matrix?--[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 01:38, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

*Alright, I went ahead and wrote an article under [[Leadership Matrix]], as that seemed to work well-enough. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 01:24, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

===Fire Convoy===

While I see here - and have seen it said elsewhere (mostly by Derik!) - that Fire Convoy did not have a Matrix in ''Car Robots'', I've also heard other people say that he DID, and that God Magnus had his own, and wanted to take Fire Convoy's for himself to increase his own power. It was the overspill of power which resulted from this, so I've heard, that was responsible for the powering-up of the Car Brothers. Anyone know wot's wot? - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 21:07, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

:At the moment, I'm not sure about God Magnus having a Matrix of his own, but I have some proof that Fire Convoy himself DID possess a Matrix.

:[http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/monzo/Prime-Schematic01a.jpg Here]

:This is a scan from a Car Robots guidebook I got at BotCon. The arrow pointing to where Fire Convoy's flip-up Matrix panel on the toy says (roughly):

:"Energon Matrix. Computer that stores fight data. Proof of his position as Leader."

:Incidentally, that other thing in his torso is his Spark (which is indicated by a text box on the page below).

:So, there you go. Fire Convoy's Energon Matrix. I'll check the rest of my books later to see if there's anything about Lio Convoy or Big Convoy's matrices. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 06:07, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

::[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/msg/bbe3540aff261785 Doug E. Fresh speaketh]
::I'm tired of relying on source books. Clearly, at one point it was goign to be a Matrix, but then they changed their minds (or vice versa.) Which was it in the '''finished episodes''' in Japan?
::(Takara considers CR and RiD the same series, so just callign ti a Matrix isnt' awful, but I'd reallyprefer we get our facts straight.)-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 06:58, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

:The online TV Tokyo episode summaries for Car Robots episodes 24 and 25 speak of how God Magnus "aims for Fire Convoy's Energon Matrix". [http://www.tv-tokyo.co.jp/carobot/koremade.html Here.]

:I've found nothing in my books or on Japanese websites that suggests that God Magnus had his own Energon Matrix, but simply that he was after Fire Convoy's, and that trying to take it was what triggered their fusion into God Fire Convoy.

:As for the Cybertronia Engine, perhaps that was an early idea that was dropped, or a misinterpretation? Maybe if we could find the original page..

:As for other Matrices, here's some data on [http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/monzo/LioConvoy-Data01a.jpg Lio Convoy].

:According to that page, Lio Convoy ALSO has an Energon Matrix (it's the thing under the panel on his chest). Roughly, the text says: "Energon Matrix. An energy box which only Cybertron leaders possess. Maximum output of 105 00000 horsepower."

:That it's called an Energon Matrix is backed up by the Robot Masters toy's bio. I've yet to find a name for Big Convoy's Matrix, alas. Maybe it's also an Energon Matrix.

::Well... boo. Since Fire Convoy plugged his repowering hose into the 'matrix' in one episode of CR, I assumed the Power Converter version was what was in play for the cartoon.
::I guess I have to remember, this is Japan, the country that decided you could recharge the wisdom of the ages by hooking the matrix up to a nuclear power plant. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 09:49, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

:::See, I was thinking that the little socket-thingie wasn't his Matrix, but that he had his Matrix stored somewhere else in his body, like, behind the windows of his small bot mode, as usual. I mean, Magnus's attempt to take it didn't involve going for that socket in any way, and heck, in Omega Prime mode, the piece containing that socket isn't even involved. Christ, RiD took all this and made it SO MUCH more sensible. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 20:17, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

:(EDIT: Not RM Lio Convoy's bio, his [http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/monzo/RMLioConvoy-Instructs.jpg instructions]. My bad.)

:For an unexpected twist, check out this [http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b288/monzo/BW2Galvatron-Data01a.jpg Galvatron] page. Item 10 is... the "Galva-Matrix"! That marble-thingie on his chest. My translator had trouble with this one, unfortunately. "Galva-Matrix. In life, a Spark-protecting crystal sphere. (Something about the future), it will carry a mysterious power."

:I'd guess that the Galva-Matrix isn't a "true" Matrix, but just something done to emphasize Galvatron as Lio Convoy's counterpart. Still, may be worth a footnote --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 09:10, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
::IIRC, the Galva-Matrix is a supercomputer from Gaea that Galvatron stuck in his chest... or something. It is not a trtue Matrix, but he calsl it that. (And I don't know enough about BW2 to know whether or nto it ha any affinity for Amogolis or not.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 09:49, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

== Dreamwave Continuity ==
*I've added more info, but this probably needs more fleshing out. And if someone could find a better picture, preferably of the matrix visible through Optimus's damaged chestplate, that'd be grand. [[User:Fulcrum|Fulcrum]] 15:45, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

==Amalgamation and sources==
I haven't looked at this article in a little while, but I have some concerns with its current state. The introduction is concise, but combines several ideas about the Matrix into a single story which could mislead readers who don't realize that it is an amalgamation of many different ideas. Later in the article this becomes more clear, but the introduction needs some sort of a statement that it is making a meta-continuity/retcon-rich summary.

Additionally, I am not familiar with the factoid given in the G1 section about Prime being the seventh Matrix bearer. On what is that statement based? Does it even apply to the cartoon universe?

Both of these concerns are basically the same thing: the article needs to be precise and forthcoming about where its information comes from, and how broadly applicable that information is.

--[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 22:09, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

:Prime being the seventh Matrix bearer 'may' be based on something Alpha Trion said at some point--or it *could* be taken from one of those third season eps where Roddy goes into the Matrix to seek the wisdom of the dead guys. But probably Trion. [[User:Onslaught Six|Onslaught Six]] 07:40, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't think the BM entry should be 'see: allspark.' The Allspark may be caleld the Matrix, but it's not the Matrix of Leadership, which refers to the physical housing-- the artifact itself.
Or was there soem dumbass explicit statement the MOL was the Allspark I blocked otu from BM? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:31, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

== How do we handle this ?==

This page was a horrible mush of different objects from different continuities and fannon relating them. I fixed it so that it actually talks specifically about the MoL wich is VERY different from the Creation Matrix and the others, but now I see that the CM page just redirects here. How do we fix that. Thoughts? [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 02:54, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
:With a Diagram, and little lines pointing to its parts? "Matrix of Leadership A.K.A. the Matrix Holder" "Crystal, contains Wisdom of the Ages A.k.a. the severed power of Primus, and the Creation Matrix program." "Also contaisn a direct access tot he Allspark Dimension."
:I think that breaking down by continuity is... rather a bad idea, actually, since in most modern meta-continuities, the Matrix will probably contain almost all of its aspects, even if they're not explicitly stated. You'd be better off with notes at the beginning of each fiction section noting that the MOL's aspects are limited ot X in this continuity.
: Here's something to ask- is the MoL related to the Matrix in Armada? I mean related in the same sense that the Unicrons are? What about the Mini-cons having their own allspark dimensiona in Linkage, and their own Matrix (apparently not really related to the full-sized TF's) in the Armada comic? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 08:05, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

:: Yeah, Originally I changed it mainly because I saw on Disambig. page that each variation on the Matrix seemes to already have its own page, wich seemed to suggest that this page should be only for the ACTUAL MoL from the cartoon. The problem is that really despite being based on the same McGuffin from the movie the MoL and the Creation Matrix are VERY different things really. Then you add in the later Matricies (what's the plural again?) whose natures are really vague (though most seem Primus-centric, as opposed to the MoL) and it's a big jumble of different objects that the article was trying to fannon together into one thing.

::Even if we do want to go for a joint page on all things Matrix, which may indeed be the best way, this needed editing, since if was a-mush with fannon. I also think if it's going to be universal, this article kinda belongs under the title "Autobot Matrix" since that's an appropriate title to refer to all the subjects contained therin, rather than nameing it after something that's only a small fraction of it's subject? Agree/disagree? [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 11:29, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
:::Disagree. The Matrix of Leadership, though traditionally held by an Autobot and thus signifying leadership, is not inherently Autobot.
:::If we're really lookign to un-muddy the waters, try tracking down the second-most-common name for the Creation Matrix (did we ever get an explicit statement that the Primordial Program was the CM?) and refer to it as that, at least ont his page. It's '''cheating''', but the resulting article would be much, much clearer.
::: (Half the mess seems to stem from the Autobots own tendency to refer tot he creation program and the object interchangably.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:55, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

:::What's the basis for putting different Matrices in one article? Shouldn't the G1 Cartoon, RiD, Beast Wars, and Armada Matracies, and the Creation Matrix have seperate pages? --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 12:10, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

:::: My first instinct was seperate pages as well, at least for the MoL and the CM since they're such different things. I think Derik's argument is that in later continuities that looked to toon and comic for inspiration, say Dreamwave-on, Matrixi (need plural... too lazy to look it up...) have been protrayed as a bit like both, making which page to put them on a bit more questionable.

:::: How much of that is really that true though? As far as I can think of off the top of my head, all new modern Matrixicies have kinda mostlyfunctioned on the Primus/Creation Matrix template, yes? I think the only real question might be where to place the original Japanese incarnation, where it was more a powersource, and vector sigma remote control than anything else, but I guess that's go best in with the other Japanese Leadership Matrixes, yes/no? [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 14:02, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

"I fixed it so that it actually talks specifically about the MoL wich is VERY different from the Creation Matrix"
: Not in recent years, in which they're treated as the same object. For example, Primeval Dawn even refers to the Matrix of Leadership within Optimus Prime's chest as "that which gives life," which is the only way the two differ. They're both the only thing that Unicron fears, they both can grant life, and they're both kept in the same container. Much of what was on this page and considered fanon was actually real information from fictions you simply didn't remember. That's sort of why I made sure to create this page in the first place, 'cuz I was keeping track of it all, and wanted to make sure all the various connections were recorded. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:03, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

:: So then, because of the relative obscurity and intermingles nature of the sources here- this reallly is an article in need of some major footnoting.
:: (I'm ust goign to throw out that the awful Transformers Takai game specifically refers to the Matrix's power as comign from the crystal, not the housig, and says that it contains the collective wisdom of all Autobots who ever fought for Justice- a clear backing off of the 'only autobot leaders' thing.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:40, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
::: The original article did clearly need footnotes. It was one of the first few things I put on this wiki, back before sources were invented by Al Gore. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 20:21, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
::: Also, sadly, I am out of town and don't have access to my Ultimate Guide, Dreamwave material, and Universe stuffs, so I can't reconstruct this article for a while yet. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 20:34, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

:::: No problem. Since the concensus is one article for all Matricies I've reinstated the previous version. But, I've changed it to fit the established form somewhat beter (continuity neutral opening and all) and to remove some of the worst continuity mushing. Better? [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 22:40, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

::::: Does anyone have suggestions on how to handle Beast Wars' use of the Matrix of Leadership as Optimus Prime's spark, while Primal carried it for a while? It needs to be addressed, and I recall someone mentioning that Foreward and DiTillo made the Matrix a Spark on accident. [[User:Mirai Gen|Mirai Gen]] 08:42, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
:::::: That's already been addressed a few times on this wiki. Try the page for [[author intent]] and [[Optimus Prime (G1)]]. --[[User:67.188.23.44|67.188.23.44]] 16:36, 31 October 2006 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>