MediaWiki - User contributions [en]

Dalek

2009-08-01T01:30:24Z

69.23.135.79:

[[Image:FallAndRiseOctus01.jpg|right|thumb|250px|]]
:''A Dalek is some sort of... thing... in the [[Generation 1 (franchise)|Generation 1]] continuity family.''

A '''Dalek''' is some kind of creature or object that an unknown Doctor might be very concerned about. [[Octus]] transforms into one. They are somehow associated with the word "exterminate".

==Fiction==
===Marvel Comics UK continuity===

[[Image:To A Power Unknown - Dalek Panel.jpg|left|thumb|]]
[[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] flew over the [[United Kingdom|English]] countryside, picking up transmissions involving, among other things, Daleks. {{storylink|To a Power Unknown!}}

Some time later, [[Octus]] served as one of three members of a [[Triumverate]] that ruled the Decepticons on [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]. His [[alternate mode]] was that of a Dalek, though how or when he scanned it, or even precisely what it looks like, is unknown. {{storylink|The Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire}}

==Notes==
*Daleks are, of course, a race of cyborgs that are one of the main antagonists of the Doctor in the the long-running British science-fiction programme, ''Doctor Who''.

*[[Lee Sullivan]] has stated that Octus transforms into a Dalek.

==External links==

* [[wikipedia:Doctor Who|Doctor Who at Wikipedia.]]
* [[wikipedia:Dalek|Daleks at Wikipedia.]]

[[Category:Generation 1]]

Talk:Sideways (Armada)

2009-08-01T00:04:25Z

69.23.135.79: /* (RID)? */

==Main image==
Hey, wasn't there a different Sideways profile pic at some point? One that wasn't just his head again, which is really redundant with the headshot of him just a further bit down the page? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:27, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
: Fixed! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:47, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
: I changed it earlier because the original pic there was total crap and tiny. Oddly enough I was going to use the Armada cardart (which has exactly the same pic you used), but I was warned against it for some reason. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:11, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

==RID Sideways = Armada Sideways==
I'm gonan throw out this interesting nugget-- RiD Sideways is the same character. Even JAPAN thinks so. Their Robotmasters page lists Sideways 1st appearance as RiD (or was it CR? It's been awhile, and it's moot for the purposes of this Wiki.) The POINT is, Armada is the SECOND toyline Sideways/Doubleface appeared in, not the first.

I noticed this as well. Also, I noticed that [[Axer]]`s page claims that he is the '''ONLY''' character to physically cross over from continuity to continuity. Based on the information from the article this is not likely true. Any objections?--[[User:Autobotx1010|Autobotx1010]] 19:39, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

:Okay, Sideway's page does indeed already say that R.I.D. sideways is the same person, and ditto with the Robot masters version. Scroll down, it's all there in the toy section. Sideways doesn't appear in the fiction for R.I.D., just the toy line, so only the toy was mentioned.
:Plus, Axer's page says he's the ''first'' character to cross continuity, not "only."
:You're joining an argument that is seventeen months old. It's been resolved for a while. --[[User:Atomic spaceman|Atomic spaceman]] 21:55, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

If you assume that RM Sideways is the same character as Armada Sideways (a fair assumption) then it logically follows that RiD Sideways probably is as well. (he's no further removed from the Unicron Trilogy than is the Sideways in Robotmasters version of G1.) The fact that RiD sideway's packaging-partnet was another continuity-hopper lends credibility to this approach-- but the Takara stance that he 1st appeared in the line before Armada is the real clincher for me.

Disagreement? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:31, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I had the RiD toy listed on this page in the beginning, but thought instead to just suggest on both pages that they are probably the same guy. Believe me, I agree with you. But if there's enough support, back in here the RiD version goes. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 05:35, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

RID Sideways was not a Japanese release. RID has no ties to Armada, either.
It's a name reuse, as the reused bio for RID Sideways was saw in Armada does not even relfect the same character. A ninja? Don't think so. RID Sideways was also an Autobot hero. Totally seperate character. Also want to point out that the character is named Doubleface in Japan, severing the ties to any "Sideways" name use for a toy that is US only.
--Bodycount

Hrm. Well for [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/msg/32a177ffd616f66a reference] here's my post on the subject back in the day exploring the issue- the Takara site said CR BTW, though I don't have a link. (It's probably still up, but I have no idea where Takara's RM site is, so...) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:41, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Bodycount- read the damn post I linked to.
*Takara says it's the same character, even with all the renaming.
*Though it didn't come through int he cartoon, Armada Sideways WAS suppsoedly a ninja
*Eat me
:-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:44, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

::Takara also recognized Galaxy Force as part of the Micron Trilogy and lists the characters as the same ones from the previous two shows. Do you also accept that idea? Oh, and I would eat you, but I don't think I can fit that much geek into my stomach.

Man, 2005 used to be the FUTURE, now it's already "back in the day." Anyway, I would agree with Derik the RiD Sideways is most likely the same guy. Unicron can dimension jump after all, and have his servants do the same. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 05:46, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh, crap, Derik! I totally forgot about Takara listing RiD Sideways as RM Doubleface's first toy. Thanks for reminding me, and that's certainly enough to join the two probably-the-same guys into the same page. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 05:48, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

...was this not in the first paragraph on the talk page? Admittedly, the usenet post was SPELLCHECKED, and thus much easier to understand. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:52, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I did edit this page last night, mostly at first I corrected the spelling on the RM section, then added a basic outline for RiD Sideways since there was nothing there when I got here, unaware of the connection between UT and RiD Sideways. However, I understand that somehow the RM Doubleface section got attributed to me. I never claimed that Doubleface was a different character, I just fixed some spelling errors, and I, like most fans, didn't know exactly what the connection was between RiD and Armada Sideways. I am not that useless. -- 21:18, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
:And who are you, anyway? (I only bring it up because your identity is an important part of your statement here.)--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 13:49, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

All this fussin' and fightin' last year when someone could've just looked up Hasbro's online bio for Armada Sideways and seen that it's almost a word-for-word lift from RiD Sideways. Same tech spec numbers, too.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 16:58, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

:Hasbro was just emerging from their steal-big-chunks-of-bios-from-old-bios phase at the time these were published. While strong evidence-in-favor (and admittedly we did overlook it) I doubt that it would have been considered decisive. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:21, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

== Turncoats ==

I think Sideways should retain the turncoat category, his 'actual alliance' being to Unicron nonwithstanding. If I look int he Turncoat category, i expect to see characters who've switched sides, and that's Sideways. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:01, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

:He didn't really switch sides. He was working for Unicron the entire time, and that job has him ''posing'' as both an Autobot and a Decepticon. If that's being a turncoat, then we need to put Punch, Armada Jetfire and Armada Scavenger in there as well, because they were also Decepticons at some point. Imagine three factions, A, B and C. If a guy from side A goes undercover as a B and later "betrayes" be and "becomes" a C, his true alligence is still with A, as he never was actually a B or C anyway. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 21:20, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

::And all those American soldiers who went and fight for the British weren't turncoats either- because that's where their loyalties always lay?
::That's the ''origin of the term''.
::I realize there's a difference between a turncoat and a double-agent... but sideways seems like he belongs in both somehow. :p Armada thrust, I assume, is a turncoat? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:33, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
:::Uh, if Americans were fighting for the British in the American Revolution, then I don't see how their allegiance wasn't to Britain instead of America. I know you like to be incoherent, Derik, but come on now. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 23:54, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

== Bad Luck ==

In Transformers Cybertron Sideways had alot of bad luck. IG he fell into alot of traps.

Yes, yes he did. THAT made me laugh like I was 10. Which I'm not. Oh, and sign your posts, for the love of [[Primus]]. [[User:BUMBLEBEE|The 'Bee :)]] 19:37, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

== RiD Art? ==

I wince a little to even ask but... does any art of his RiD incarnation exist? --Some jerk who didn't sign his name!
: Nope! RID stuff didn't have packaging art, just retouched toy photography. So since that version never got any fiction, d'oh well. Which is just as well, since the Armada guy probably belongs up there anyway. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:01, 7 April 2009 (EDT)

== RM Section ==

The Robotmasters section has this note;
{{note|In this continuity family, the character is known as "Doubleface," which is one of his Japanese names. Since Robot Masters is a Japanese franchise with no English-language equivalent, we do not use the English name "Sideways" in this section.}}
...huh? We're not using English names for characters that ''have them'' because the fiction was published in Japan? That seems not-right. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:03, 13 April 2009 (EDT)

:I added that note to account for the way the section was already written, under the assumption that it was written correctly. I have no strong feelings on the matter. '''Edit:''' Okay, I've got some feelings now! I'm thinking you're right, Derik, on the logic that if we use "Doubleface" for the RM section, then we would also need to use "Convoy," "Beast Convoy," etc. I think the reason the section was written the way it was is that the author was preserving a veneer of ambiguity over the character, noting that he only CALLED himself by this particular name, for whatever value you choose to give that. But at this point is there any reason to cast that doubt? I don't know RM well enough to say for sure, but the discussion above and what I've gathered about the nature of RM suggest to me that there's no good reason to treat him differently than all of the other old-characters-in-new-bodies that are RM's stock in trade. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 23:28, 13 April 2009 (EDT)
:: I wrote the section using "Doubleface" because that fiction has no English-language equivalent. I'm not super-attached to using his Japanese name there. I just thought it might be appropriate. Part of the reason is that we call his toy "Doubleface" in the respective toy section. We don't "translate" that into his English name, so it felt weird doing it for Robot Masters. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 23:51, 13 April 2009 (EDT)
:::The Fiction and Toy sections have different naming rules, though (or so I'd gathered). Each individual toy is labeled as whatever is on its packaging, period. But for fiction, we homogenize as much as possible (hence calling RM Convoy "Optimus Prime"). So.... yeah, I'm going to change that section. Also, while I'm at it - ''Robot Masters'' isn't its own continuity family, is it? The fiction is pretty sparsely documented here, but what I've been able to scrounge up says it's in some G1 universe or other. Characters are just warping like crazy from across time and space to a G1 Earth in the year 2004. So I'm going to change the continuity-family label too. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 00:27, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
::::Yeah, RM definitely isn't its own continuity family. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:42, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
:::The name change is especially bothersome to me here because... RM Doubleface is the toy that explicitly established that all the Doublefaces were the same character. "This guy first appeared in RiD."
:::While on the subject... I thought that Cybertron Sideways was actually an AU version of Armada sideways or something... isn't Planet X actually from a parallel universe? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:46, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
::::No, Ask Vector Prime makes it clear he is the same guy. He just happens to be from a parallel dimension, originally. Or... well, wait. Did the Planet X attack happen before or after Gigantian got moved to that parallel dimension? Eh. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:48, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
:::::Oh, that makes sense, I guess. Assuming he was in the RiD universe "before" armada (and he'd have to be, his fiction is a straight line afterward) there's really no reason the Armadaverse has to be his "home" universe.
:::::...I feel like this might benefit from an "Origins" section explaining that unlike other characters, this fiction section is all the same iteration of the same guy. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:52, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
::::::I'm working one up right now, though I'm putting it in "Notes". You can do as you wish with it when I'm done. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 00:59, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
:::::::That's good to-- possibly a better way of presenting it too. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:01, 14 April 2009 (EDT)

==TV Magazine?==
There was a Robotmasters story featured in TV Magazine as well? Anyone have scans? [[User:Lightsyderthe2nd|Lightsyderthe2nd]] 10:05, 1 May 2009 (EDT)

==(RID)?==

Why isn't it Sideways (Armada)? Because he's more prominent in the Unicron Trilogy, and if I recall RID Sideways was a toy only guy. [[User:Gearshift|Gearshift]] 15:01, 29 July 2009 (EDT)
:Because the RID Sideways toy was later confirmed to be the same character as Armada Sideways. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 15:31, 29 July 2009 (EDT)
::Gearshift isn't contesting that point. He knows they're the same guy; he wants to know why we're not using the most intuitively ''prominent'' identifier. The answer - and I know we had a discussion about this article's title somewhere; I think it got lost in the crash - is that we decide what to use for a disambiguation-parenthetical by starting with [[:Help:Disambiguation#Disambiguation suffixes|one simple rule]]: the first franchise the character appeared in. Sideways appeared in RID first, and there are no other RID Sidewayses. So that's that. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 19:44, 30 July 2009 (EDT)
:::Just to be clear, if e-hobby were to retroactively decide that one of the seekers from MtMtE was, in fact, the same guy, Sideways, we'd rename him Sideways (G1), right? --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 19:55, 30 July 2009 (EDT)
::::No, because he was RID and Armada and Cybertron before he was G1. Actually, he already DOES exist in the G1 timeline, thanks to Robot Masters. This is an area we go real-world by, not in-fiction. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:23, 30 July 2009 (EDT)
:::::But I thought the confirmation that RID Sideways was the same as Armada Sideways came after Armada ended. So, how would that be any different? --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 20:32, 30 July 2009 (EDT)
::::::His RiD bio was written to mesh with the upcoming Armada character... he was ''always'' intended to be the same guy. We just didn't get it ''explicitly'' stated until Robotmasters.
::::::And I'm not sure Siph is right here. If we were to get ''a'' Seeker named Sideways who ''was'' this same guy and showed up in G1 in new fiction, then he'd still be Sideways (RiD). But if the black seeker in MtMtE (you only see his shoulder and head, he's hiding like Waldo!) was to to be ''revealed'' to be this same Sideways, then I think he'd move to "Sideways (G1)" because the G1 cartoon would be his earliest chronological appearance.
::::::@Gearshift... IIRC, in early 2008 we constructed a fully-thought-out justification why it would be consistent with our notability guidelines (we have them, they just '''very rarely''' come into play) why it would make sense to keep Sideways at "Sideways (Armada)" if we ever got a second character with his name.
::::::And then then [[Sideways (ROTF)]] was announced, the article just got moved to "Sideways (RID)" with very little discussion, and almost no objection. (I'm not quite sure why, but I speculate that Animated's flogging of just-like-G1-but-not characters combined with the increasing number of continuity-jumping characters just eroded a lot of the resistance people had to using the 'proper' disambig.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:42, 30 July 2009 (EDT)
:::::::Actually, even if a black G1 Seeker was revealed to be the same guy, he still would be Sideways RID, since we established that toy releases take precedence in terms of first franchise. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 20:50, 30 July 2009 (EDT)
::::::::I'm blanking, could you cite me an example? (Wing Dagger type situations don't count.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:52, 30 July 2009 (EDT)
::::::::http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/franchise-ordering-discussion.htm (Yes I've been too lazy to figure out how to format the sucker to get it reposted somewhere on the wiki.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 20:59, 30 July 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::OK, but what if there was G1 fiction that repurposed an existing G1 toy, say Doubleclouder, as the same old lovable Sideways? Then would we move him to Sideways (G1) since the first toy of him was in the G1 line? --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 22:49, 30 July 2009 (EDT)
::::::::::''My'' understanding would be no, since he was never officially released as that toy, and the toys still take precedence. The fiction only counts if there's no official toy to work from. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:09, 30 July 2009 (EDT)
::::::::::: Fair. But if some new fiction retroactively made, say Beast Wars Megatron the same character as Go-Bots Megatron, then we'd move Megatron (BW) to Megatron (G2) since that that would be an exactly analogous situation to Sideways. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 23:39, 30 July 2009 (EDT)
::::::::::Probably the article would be at "Doubleclouder" with the "Sideways (RID)" stuff moved there. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 23:43, 30 July 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::::I don't think Jeysie was suggesting that he ''was'' Doubleclouder... rather than the DC toy was repurposed-within-the-same-continuity-family to represent two separate characters, like the G2 Cyberjets Air Raid and Aero Raid.
:::::::::::If a Japanese guidebook revealed no-appearances G2 Go-bot "Double Clutch (G2)" to be [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4a__-u6czw#t=4m20s Sandstorm's unnamed friend from Fight or Flee], we'd move it to "Double Clutch (G1)" with no real debate-- the character was around by that name in G1. It's that simple, right? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:00, 31 July 2009 (EDT)
::::::::::::''"Beginning. Middle. End. Facts. Details. Condense. Plot. Tell it."'' ~'''Agent Simmons''' Yay or nay to the idea of a move? [[User:Gearshift|Gearshift]] 06:49, 31 July 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::::::Nay, he was an RID toy first. For the rationale, read the page I linked to. (Basically, I made the same sort of argument you did in your edit summary, and we hashed it out and realized that just doesn't work logistically after all.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 08:10, 31 July 2009 (EDT)

See, I don't get that at all, Jeysie. With Sideways, we've got basically two different characters with the same name in two different franchises. A third franchise comes along and declares them to be the same character, so we decide to disambig by the earliest chronological toy. (Authorial intent on those original tech specs is dubious, since many times name reuse comes with similar phraseology across franchises with no intent that the toy represents the same character.) If we think that this is enough to move the disambiguation to the first toy, then that should be the rule for all characters retroactively declared to be the same guy. If BW Megatron is declared cannonically to have been the same dude as Go-Bots Megatron from the earlier G2 franchise, then we should move him to Megatron (G2).

A corollary to this is that, since we disambig by the TOY of first franchise for characters who are retroactively the same across timelines, if we need to disambig Unicron for whatever reason he'll be Unicron (Armada). (OH, I'm so tempted to actually stick in a non-Unicron character named Unicron into one of my books just to see that argument.) --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 11:20, 31 July 2009 (EDT)

:Personally, I don't like that Robot Masters can retcon the Armada continuity. I think that ''in the Robot Masters continuity'', RID Sideways = Armada Sideways, but ''in the Armada continuity,'' RID Sideways ≠ Armada Sideways. Saying RID Axer came from G1 is different, because it isn't really retconning any G1 fiction except to say that once all the G1 fiction was over with, he hopped into the RID universe. Having said that, I think RID is a little bit of an exception. The toyline was sort of used as a catch-all "Universe"-type concept with a loose regard to continuity. It has "Air Attack Optimus Primal" for example. He is taken as the Optimus Primal from the Beast Machines era. If he is the Optimus Primal his bio draws RID into the Beast Wars's history.
:As for your Megatron example, Go-Bots Megatron is G1 Megatron. The bio says Megatron took this new car altmode so Megatron (BW) would move to Megatron (G1). Your Unicron example shows why the toy should not necessarily take precedence. It should be the first real-world appearance, be it toy or fiction. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 11:48, 31 July 2009 (EDT)
::Thing is... they're not really all that different as characters. The RID and Armada bios are if not 1:1 exact, they're so damn close they might as well be. This was a source of confusion as soon as Sideways's Armada bio was revealed, and it's possible that the production scheduling meant Armada Sideways was developed first despite being released second. And we were still kind of not used to the whole "multiverse" thing yet. At any rate, I frankly advise against trying to nail down a standard for bizarre hypotheticals. Ours is a fucked-up franchise, and trying to predict how to handle the next strange once-in-a-lifetime mutation is really an exercise in futility. A lot of what we do really does have to fall under a case-by-case with the hope that general guidelines will suffice. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 12:38, 31 July 2009 (EDT)
:::Hey, that's the answer I wanted all along - let's go case-by-case and let common sense prevail. That being the case, wouldn't the 'common sense' answer be to move Sideways back to Armada, which is where the bulk of his characterization comes from and where most fans know him from? --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 13:23, 31 July 2009 (EDT)
::::I think any fan who really knows about Sideways in Armada must by definition be hardcore enough to have known he was the RID character already. I mean, he's a second-stringer from a cartoon most people hated from 7 years ago. With that in mind, I think the risk of actually confusing anybody is very, very slight. Besides, part of Sideways' characterization prominently featured in our article is that "self-sufficient ninja" shtick, which really was introduced in RID, and there is simply no way to NOT have the article introduction mention his RID incarnation. So once we've acknowledged it, what's wrong with keeping it in his name? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 13:42, 31 July 2009 (EDT)

:This whole "toys first" thing is total nonsense. It stems from the discussion Jeysie linked to (thanks for saving it! Do you have the other pieces too? We need those back here...), where Siph was (over)reacting to Jeysie's claim that the toys didn't really matter at ''all.'' In the end, what actually matters is FRANCHISE, which applies to BOTH TOYS AND FICTION. Jim, your example is a perfect case: If we ever needed to disambiguate [[Unicron]], making him [[Unicron (Armada)]] because that was the franchise that first sold him as a toy is ridiculous. He was created as a character in the 1986 movie, which was released under the G1 franchise. THAT'S his franchise of origin.
:Your questioning of the (RID) on this article is also very keen: What does "origin" mean when you involve cross-franchise retconning? I don't have a clear answer, though I'm on the side of (RID) because the retcon was such a very short leap, due to the nontrivially-similar bios and the association the RID character had with [[Axer|another dimension-hopper]] from the get-go. This is admittedly a judgement call, and the hypothetical example of retconning a G1 character who has no inherent connection (the "black Seeker") into this Sideways would be a much more challenging case. Good thing we don't have to deal with it yet!
:Though I'm not as dismissive of "bizarre hypotheticals" as Siph is. The idea of putting a parenthetical on this article was at one point a hypothetical that we had a valuable discussion around. I think Derik is misremembering the outcome of that; I recall it ending with more support for (RID), which I thought was why the actual move was so uncontroversial.
:- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 16:29, 31 July 2009 (EDT)
::There's the [http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/insecticon-swarm-talk.htm Insection Swarm talk page] and the [http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/franchise-ordering.htm main Sandbox notes], if that's what you mean by "other parts".
::And, what do you mean "toys first thing is total nonsense"? I distinctly remember that I came down on the side of determining franchise of origin by the fiction, everyone yelled at me, we had the whole discussion, and determined that remaining with determining franchise of origin via the toys was the best way to handle it.
::If people suddenly start changing to the reverse and taking up my initial argument of determining franchise by the fiction, I swear I'm gonna kick y'all out of irritation until you make up your freakin' minds. :P --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:40, 31 July 2009 (EDT)
:::As I said in that discussion, the toys-vs.-fiction thing is a false dichotomy. Take the toys entirely out of the equation, and there are still franchises. Every piece of TF fiction - be it comic, TV show, book, whatever - is released with some kind of franchise-identifier (usually the logo on the cover or in the intro sequence). It doesn't matter HOW a character appears first, whether it's a toy or a drawing on a page or a 3D rendering onscreen; what matters is what franchise that appearance is under.
:::'''Edit:''' Oh, and yeah, those are exactly the "other pieces" I mean. Those totally need to be reincorporated into the wiki; in total, they're pretty much the Debate To End All Debates on this topic.
:::- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 16:51, 31 July 2009 (EDT)
::::Apparently they're not, seeing as how after all that, there's people here arguing the same stance I initially got griped at for. :P --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:58, 31 July 2009 (EDT)
:::::Which is exactly why we need to have those discussions back on here, so we can point people to them and go, "There. THAT'S why." - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 17:27, 31 July 2009 (EDT)

::::I have nothing to add to this other than I've always considered Sideways to be an Armada character, and I think, despite what Thy says, one of the stand out characters of the series. I recall people going "HOLY CRAP NO WAY!" back when forums used to have play-by-play threads for Armada and we watched [[Detection]]. Basically, if TF fans hear the name Sideways, they think "the purple motorcycle guy from Transformers Armada". --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:54, 31 July 2009 (EDT)

::I just want to point out for clarification... Robotmasters didn't ''retcon'' Rid Sideways into being Armada Sideways... RM ''confirmed'' it, having been hinted at before (and there being discussion to that effect on att.)
::Sideways was part of a 2-pack... the other guy was Axer, whose bio showed that he was G1 Axer and he'd been accidentally transported into the RiD-verse. Obviously Sideways was their joke... making him an ''upcoming'' character, so the two pack was ''both'' guys from other universes, one old, one new.
::(Left we forget, in 2002 when they were released, a lot of the fandom was operating on the idea that Transformers was a 'mythology', where everything was part of one big loose universe that kinda-sorta fit with everything else, just not all at once. Axer being transported from one reality to another was the first example of the Transofrmers Multiverse EVER, a concept that was being developed for Armada.)
::I also don't think we disambigh characters by toylines... we disambig the, by franchise. It's just that toyline have an ''almost'' 1:1 relatioship with franchises. (which in turn have a .9:1 relationship with the continuity family) that screws people up.
::If we used the ''toyline'', we'd have "Blurr (Universe)" or "Blurr (Universe 2008)" instead of "Blurr (Shattered Glass)". -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:21, 31 July 2009 (EDT)
:::Er, I had been under the impression that Shattered Glass was its own separate toy franchise, insofar that the BotCon toys were released under that label.
:::But in any case, I'm more than just a little frustrated that we spent all that time determining that we ''do'' in fact disambiguate characters by toy franchise—including my getting ''insulted'' by various people for even contemplating disambiguating by fiction—and now folks are taking the opposite standpoint. WTF. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:33, 31 July 2009 (EDT)
::::And I'm getting frustrated that you keep misrepresenting the current rule as being "toy-based." It's NOT. It's whatever came first, whether it's toy OR fiction. Yes, some people argued against you in a toy-based way, but I don't think they represent the sum total of all arguments against your point of view. For a while, you were attempting to do away with the franchise-of-origin rule entirely, in favor of whatever term (franchise, continuity family, series, etc.) was most representative of the scope of each particular character's appearances. And THAT'S the kind of thing that I saw most people balking at, since it invited debate on almost every disambiguated page we have. "One simple rule" was what the real dogpiling was all about, and the toys-vs.-fiction thing was totally secondary to that. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 17:49, 31 July 2009 (EDT)
:::::'''Yes''', it is. The entire '''point''' of the discussion was disambiguating by toys vs. disambiguating by fiction. And we specifically agreed at one point as part of the examples that toy appearances take precedence! It's all ''there'' in the discussions.
:::::But whatever. I just find it ironically irritating that I had a standpoint, everyone told me it was wrong, I was convinced it was wrong (by '''you''', I might add) and changed to agreeing with everyone else... and now I'm wrong again because people are doing a 180 from the standpoint they reached last time.
:::::Whatever, it's pretty obvious I can't win. I'm just going to bow out before I have to deal with being insulted again even though I'm trying to advocate the same freakin' conclusion we reached the last time this came up. Wish people could make up their damn minds on things and stick to it. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:07, 31 July 2009 (EDT)
::::SG Blurr was released in the ''Timeines'' toyline. And the SG guys that didn't have to be disambiguated were at "(Timelines) till people complained about having to remember which characters get "(Shattered Glass)" and which don't. (Why are we using "Shattered Glass", anyway? Wouldn't it be more consistent for us to use "SG"?) [[Special:Contributions/69.23.135.79|69.23.135.79]] 20:04, 31 July 2009 (EDT)

Endgame, Part I

2009-05-17T18:58:06Z

69.23.135.79:

{{disambig2|the ''Animated'' episode|the ''Beast Machines'' episode|Endgame Pt. I: The Downward Spiral}}

{{episode|
|series=Anitoon
|image=TFAni EndgamePart1 Autobots Ready.jpg
|caption=You're telling us this entire series was just to get Prime a hammer and a jetpack? ''Again''?
|ep=41
|title="Endgame, Part I"
|airdate=[[May 16]], 2009
|written by=[[Rich Fogel]]
|directed by=[[Kalvin Lee]] [[Kentaro Mizuno]]
|animation studio=[[Mook]]
}}
'''The Autobots race to find an advantage over Megatron's control of Omega Supreme.'''

==Synopsis==
At the plant, [[Jazz (Animated)|Jazz]] and [[Prowl (Animated)|Prowl]] are working on Prowl's [[processor-over-matter]] by having Prowl lift some oil cans. Jazz is impressed with Prowl's skills, and wonders why he never completed his training. Suddenly, [[Bumblebee (Animated)|Bumblebee]] and [[Bulkhead (Animated)|Bulkhead]] come tearing in, causing Prowl to lose his concentration and drop the oil can. Bumblebee and Bulkhead skid on the spilled oil across the floor, crashing into the wall. As the two bots collect themselves, Prowl says that they're two reasons he never completed his training. Bulkhead and Bumblebee then explain why they came in so quickly: They've found [[Omega Supreme (Animated)|Omega Supreme]]'s energy signature, and it's on Earth's [[moon (moon)|moon]].

[[Image:TFAni EndgamePart1 Lugnut vs Shockwave.jpg|thumb|left|200px|And to think, this dance scene almost got cut.]]
On the Moon, [[Shockwave (Animated)|Shockwave]] continues his efforts to probe [[Arcee (Animated)|Arcee]]'s memory banks for the [[activation code]]s to Omega Supreme. However, all he's found so far are some prewar datatrax of her school-teaching days. [[Megatron (Animated)|Megatron]] is convinced that his "most loyal servant" can find it in time. [[Starscream (Animated)|Starscream]] takes a moment to goad [[Lugnut]] that Megatron has another favorite, and Lugnut bashes Shockwave aside in protest, citing his great loyalty and never-ending search for Megatron. Shockwave counters that while Lugnut was fawning at Megatron's stabilizing servos, he risked his [[spark]] by going spying on the Autobots for stellar cycles. The two get into a fight, much to Megatron's annoyance, while Starscream gloats and rolls his head out of the room...

At the plant, the Autobots debate their options. [[Ratchet (Animated)|Ratchet]] says that they need to act now, and that they need to use the [[Magnus Hammer]]. Optimus is hesitant, and thinks back to his past...

:''At the [[Autobot High Council|High Council]] chambers, [[Ultra Magnus (Animated)|Ultra Magnus]] reviews Cadet Optimus and [[Sentinel Prime (Animated)|Cadet Sentinel]]'s recent unauthorized visit to an organic world, which resulted in the loss of Cadet [[Blackarachnia (Animated)|Elita-1]]. Sentinel makes a final statement that he wanted to go back for Elita, but Optimus prevented him. Ultra Magnus again asks whose idea it was to go to the planet, and Optimus takes full responsibility as the senior Cadet. Ultra Magnus had high hopes for Optimus, even believing he could one day be [[Magnus]], but now that will never be. Ultra Magnus pronounces his judgment: Optimus is to be expelled from the [[Autobot Academy]] and be ineligible for service in the [[Cybertron Elite Guard]].''

Snapped back to the present, Optimus reaffirms that they don't need to use the Magnus Hammer. Instead, he was considering a flight mechanism to keep up with Megatron. Ratchet is resistant, but the other Autobots point out various examples of Autobot flight, and Ratchet finally relents. Optimus says that they need more information, so Prowl volunteers to go and spy on the Decepticons. Jazz vetoes this, saying that Prowl is on the verge of a major training breakthrough, so someone else must go. Bumblebee gets volunteered, much to his own annoyance.

[[Image:TFA-Endgame-ShockwavePointsAndLaughs.jpg|thumb|right|200px|Statement: LOL]]
In the ruins of the [[Nemesis (Animated)|Decepticon warship]], Starscream creates a new body for himself from the shell of a [[Starscream clone|clone]] and a [[protoform]]. However, as soon as the process is complete and Starscream's head is attached, Megatron reveals his presence and destroys the already complete clones. Starscream begs for mercy, saying he planned to make an army for the Decepticon cause, but Megatron has bigger plans in mind for the protoforms: Not to clone himself, nor even Lugnut. No, even bigger—about the size of Omega Supreme...

In the woods, Jazz guides Prowl in meditation, directing him to commune with the [[AllSpark (Animated)|AllSpark]]. His efforts succeed, collecting the ambient dispersed AllSpark energy in the area and forming it into a solid AllSpark fragment. Meanwhile, Bumblebee is transwarped to the Moon. He manages to avoid being seen, but the transmitter he brought is destroyed when he avoids some construction work that Shockwave and Lugnut are doing. Making his way into Omega Supreme, he finds Arcee and realizes that she isn't quite functioning right. Since he doesn't know how to disconnect her without deactivating her, Bumblebee decides to activate her communicator to allow them to listen in on the Decepticons, and he quickly transwarps out. On Earth, the Autobots are unable to get the specifics of what's going on, but it quickly becomes obvious that Megatron is building something.

[[Image:EndGamePart1-Autobotscantfly.jpg|thumb|left|200px]]
At the plant, Ratchet, [[Sari Sumdac|Sari]], and [[Isaac Sumdac|Professor Sumdac]] work on the jet pack they're building for Prime. Ratchet is having trouble, so Sari scans the device and discovers the problem. Once it's ready, they have Optimus take it for a test run. After he loses control, flies around the city, and crashes in front of the plant, all on five percent power, Ratchet and Sari decide to add some stabilizers. Once those are ready, Optimus conducts another test run. This one is much more successful, and Optimus actually enjoys his flying, thinking back to a conversation with Ultra Magnus...

:''Despite being expelled from the Academy, Optimus still impressed Ultra Magnus with the considerable skills he'd already shown in his stellar cycles of service. Managing to pull some strings, Ultra Magnus has been able to get Optimus promoted to [[Prime (rank)|Prime]] and get him a ship to command. Although Optimus is grateful, he soon sees his ship, ''[[Teletran-1]]'', a rusted out piece of junk. Ratchet is performing maintenance and tells Optimus to ignore the appearance of the ship. Indicating Bumblebee and Bulkhead, he notes it's the young bots Optimus should be worried about...''

[[Image:TFAni EndgamePart1 Optimus FemScream.jpg|right|thumb|left|200px|"What the hell is that noise?" "Oh, that? I'm just driving with the top down."]]

While Optimus flies around the city, he attracts the attention of the [[female Starscream]] clone, who thinks that he's Starscream returned to Earth. Her overriding (and still unexplained) hatred of Starscream compels her fly and attack him. Optimus takes a hit and crashes into the river, while she flies off as she realizes he's not her progenitor.

On the Moon, Shockwave is finally able to bring Arcee's memory to the point where she and Ratchet were attacked by [[Lockdown]]. Posing as Longarm Prime, he asks if she still has the activation codes for Project: Omega, which she does. Pleased, Shockwave pulls her wires and takes her to Megatron. Bulkhead and Bumblebee alert Optimus, who is in quite a funk after being beaten by a "Starscream wannabe".

[[Image:TFAni EndgamePart1 Screamer NotAgain.jpg|left|thumb|200px|De agony of de feet.]]

Finally, the time has come to implant the protoforms into their base shells. They scan Omega Supreme, assuming his form. Longarm reawakens Arcee and instructs her to transfer the access code to Megatron, but she recognizes him and refuses. Shockwave thus deactivates her and prepares to upload the information to his leader. However, Starscream knocks Megatron aside to take the codes, but Lugnut knocks ''him'' aside and receives the codes instead{{m-}}just as Megatron wanted. He knew that imprinting his personality onto the clones risked making them too ambitious, but there is no such threat from Lugnut, Megatron's "most loyal lieutenant"—a description which pleases Lugnut greatly. Furthermore, with the AllSpark fragments from Omega Supreme, they no longer have need of Starscream - whom Megatron immediately shoots, breaking his new body into several pieces.

At the plant, Optimus is being repaired, and Ratchet insists that he must use the Magnus Hammer. Optimus still believes that using it isn't in his programming. Prowl, however, believes that fate makes its own programming, prompting Optimus to think back...

:''Working on repairing the space bridge where it all started, Bumblebee and Bulkhead stumble upon Prowl meditating in a cavern, having failed to commune with the AllSpark so far despite trying for a thousand stellar cycles. Unfortunately, one of the [[energon cube]]s Ratchet was setting up falls into Prowl's cavern. They barely make it out, but Prowl's ship is destroyed. Optimus offers to take him back to Cybertron in about fifty stellar cycles, after the crew finishes there, but notes that with Prowl's help, it could be sooner. Prowl bemoans how he has strayed so far from his path, and Optimus says that he can sympathize.''

[[Image:TFA-Endgame-LugnutsSupreme.jpg|right|thumb|200px|Great, so now we know what the children would look like.]]

Optimus is snapped back to reality when Bulkhead says that he's getting several signals from the Moon. Meanwhile, Lugnut has finished uploading the codes, but a glitch forces him to remain on Omega Supreme with Shockwave to coordinate. Megatron, meanwhile, says that he will take the clones on a test run by destroying [[Detroit]]. As they launch, the Autobots head out to get a visual, while Optimus reluctantly grabs the Magnus Hammer. He asks Ratchet if they can still reason with Omega Supreme, but Ratchet doubts it, as the [[Lugnut Supreme|Lugnuts Supreme]] transform and touch down.

[[Endgame, Part II|To be concluded...]]
{{--}}

==Featured characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
*[[Jazz (Animated)|Jazz]] (1)
*[[Prowl (Animated)|Prowl]] (2)
*[[Bumblebee (Animated)|Bumblebee]] (3)
*[[Bulkhead (Animated)|Bulkhead]] (4)
*[[Omega Supreme (Animated)|Omega Supreme]] (5)
*[[Arcee (Animated)|Arcee]] (6)
*[[Optimus Prime (Animated)|Optimus Prime]] (11)
*[[Ratchet (Animated)|Ratchet]] (12)
*[[Ultra Magnus (Animated)|Ultra Magnus]] (14, flashback)
*[[Sentinel Prime (Animated)|Cadet Sentinel]] (15, flashback)

|c2=
*[[Shockwave (Animated)|Shockwave/Longarm Prime]] (7)
*[[Megatron (Animated)|Megatron]] (8)
*[[Starscream (Animated)|Starscream]] (9)
*[[Lugnut]] (10)
*[[Female Starscream]] (17)
*Three [[Lugnut Supreme|Lugnuts Supreme]] (18–20)

|c3=
*[[Isaac Sumdac]] (16)

|c4=
*[[Sari Sumdac]] (13)
}}

==Quotes==

'''Megatron''': Can't you shut [[Arcee (Animated)|her]] up? She makes Blitzwing sound like he has his head screwed on. 
'''Starscream''': You see? He even likes Blitzwing better. 
''[Lugnut bashes Shockwave aside while making his way to Starscream]'' 
'''Lugnut''': ''I'' am the most faithful! 
'''Shockwave''': Have you blown a diode?! I'm trying to work here! 
''[A scuffle insues]'' 
'''Megatron''': Oh, for spark's sake...
:—You get what you pay for, Megatron. And these guys are free.

'''Prowl''': I'll transwarp to the Moon and spy on him. 
'''Jazz''': And take five on your Cyber-Ninja training? No dice. You're close to a real breakthrough. And I got a vibe that says we're gonna need every advantage we can get our servos on. 
'''Optimus''': Agreed. We'll send someone else. 
'''Bumblebee''': Who'd be crazy enough to volunteer for ''that'' mission? ''[Everyone looks at Bumblebee]'' Why's everyone looking at me? Why's everyone ''always'' looking at me?!
:—Bumblebee gets tired of all his suicide missions.

"Get with it, Prowl. The AllSpark ain't just in your circuits, dig. It's grooving all around us. Reach out, and hook yourself into it. 
:—'''Jazz''', being all mystical ''and'' hip at the same time.

'''Sari''': ''[Scans the boosters]'' You're right. We need to add a microairator to the fuel line. 
'''Ratchet''': And I suppose the rocket boosters just told you that? 
'''Sari''': Kinda. 
'''Ratchet''': That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever-- 
''[Ratchet checks the rocket boosters]'' 
'''Ratchet''': Wait! I've got it! We'll add a microairator to the fuel line! 
'''Sari''': Hmm, now why didn't I think of that? 
:—Ratchet is either a glory hog or going senile. Possibly both.

"Instilled with my own powerful personality, the clones might try to overthrow me. But not so my ''most loyal'' lieutenant..." 
''[to Megatron]'' "Ah. I am honoured, my Lord." ''[to Shockwave]'' "Hah. Megatron trusts '''me''' the most!"
:—'''Megatron''' makes all '''Lugnut'''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s dreams come true. Lugnut responds by showing what a child he is.
==Notes==

===Transformers references===

* Prowl's failure to complete his [[Cyber-Ninja Corps|Cyber-Ninja]] training, as previously mentioned in "[[A Bridge Too Close, Part II]]", is again brought up. We learn in this episode that his failure is partially due to the fact that while trying to commune with the AllSpark, he was interrupted by Optimus Prime's crew and wound up joining up with them out of necessity, bridging the storytelling gap between "[[Five Servos of Doom]]" and "[[Transform and Roll Out]]".

* The events of "[[Along Came a Spider]]" are at last revealed to be the reason why Optimus was kicked out of the [[Autobot Academy]].

[[Image:GodGinrai_toy.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Now, that's some upgrade...]]
* While more viewers will likely be reminded of ''[[Cybertron (franchise)|Cybertron]]'' [[Optimus Prime (Armada)|Optimus Prime]]'s super mode, ''Animated'' Optimus's new flight attachments (specifically the colors and details of his wings and gauntlets) are based on [[Ginrai|God Ginrai]]'s flight-endowing [[Godbomber]] components. The flight pack itself, to which the wings attach, doesn't seem to owe as much to the ''[[Super-God Masterforce (franchise)|Masterforce]]'' character, appearing instead to resemble booster pack from [[Jetfire (G1)|the original Jetfire]] (and thus, the FAST Packs from ''Super Dimension Fortress Macross''). His shoulder cannons also appear to be based on his Voyager-class toy's water blaster.
** The wingless rocket pack also calls to mind final scenes of the original series episode "[[More than Meets the Eye, Part 3]]", in which [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] borrows [[Sideswipe (G1)|Sideswipe]]'s rocket pack to chase [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]]'s space cruiser.

* As he jets into the sky, Optimus shouts out [[Megatron (BW)|"Yessssss!" and "Excellent"]].

*The Female Starscream clone returns for the first time since "A Bridge Too Close, Part II".

* The protoforms [[Lockdown]] stole in "Five Servos of Doom" return in this episode, when it is revealed that the bounty hunter appropriated them for Megatron, and that they have been in the remains of his crashed warship all this time. As many fans had suspected, the protoforms are confirmed to have been used by Starscream to create his [[Starscream clone|clones]] in "[[A Fistful of Energon]]" and "[[A Bridge Too Close, Part I]]". As the events of "Five Servos" suggested, the protoforms are shown to be blank, without [[spark]]s.

* Ratchet once again repeats the oft-heard mantra that "Autobots don't fly", a common (if frequently broken rule) throughout most of the Transformers fiction, and one that has received quite a bit of attention in ''Animated''. Like quite a lot of fans before them, Bulkhead and Bumblebee promptly confront Ratchet with the harsh reality: [[Jetfire (Animated)|quite]] [[Jetstorm (Animated)|a]] [[Prowl (Animated)|few]] ''Animated'' Autobots have taken to the skies at this point.

* The creation of the Lugnuts Supreme, evil clones of [[Omega Supreme (Animated)|Omega Supreme]], hearkens back to previous evil Omegas such as the [[Omega Sentinel (G1)|Omega Sentinel]] and the [[Dark Guardian]]s.

===Real-world references===
*The scene in which Optimus tests his jetpack for the first time appears to be a reference to a similar scene in the ''[[Iron Man]]'' motion picture, as he starts out using only a tiny percentage of the pack's power and still winds up shooting off out of control. When he achieves successful flight on his next test, he's also just as elated as Stark was. Amusingly, this isn't even the first time David Kaye's played the part of Iron Man, having voiced the character in the ''[[wikipedia: Fantastic Four: World's Greatest Heroes|Fantastic Four: World's Greatest Heroes]]'' animated series.

===Trivia===
* Prowl had been on his optics quest for at least "a million stellar cycles" before he joined up with Optimus...and had accomplished jack squat in all that time. Of course, he could have been exaggerating out of frustration, but still...slow going.

*Megatron purposely started the Shockwave/Lugnut feud, knowing Starscream would try to seize Omega Supreme's access codes, just to be sure Lugnut would be in his most loyal state at the moment of the transfer? Now, that's some sleeky fore-thinkings...

*Shockwave has enough of a sense of humor that he can laugh. Who knew?

*Interestingly, Megatron destroys all of the remaining (albeit inert) Starscream clone shells, instead of reprogramming them to serve him and boost the number of troops under his command. [[Starscream (Animated)|Starscream]] even suggests this, but apparently Megatron prefers [[Lugnut Supreme|sheer brute force]] over numbers.

*After spending all of Season 3 as a disembodied head, Starscream finally regains his body....only to have Megatron blow it to smithereens at the end of the episode. ''Tough break'', Screamer.

* This is not the [[Matrix Blade|first time]] that an Optimus has taken up a huge, Matrix-related melee weapon for the final battle against a Megatron.

[[Category:Animated episodes]]

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central

2009-03-17T04:55:08Z

69.23.135.79: /* "Unrecoverable" pages */

Additional discussion on this situation can be found on these Allspark.com threads:
* [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=56439 "TFWiki Problems, Any idea what's going on?"]
* [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=51208&st=400&p=1155749&#entry1155749 "Major Wiki Work, A thread for additions to Transformers wikis."]

==Hey hey, what can I do==
I think at this point we must begin formulating plans based on the assumption that the site is a total loss. This means damage control first, then restoration, then prevention.

Assuming no good news comes through, it seems to me we need to take the following steps. Bein' that I'm not a tech guy, there may be more options than what I'm seeing, but here's what I figure we gotta do:

#take down the bulk of the site's pages so Google's cache will not overwrite them
#figure out a system to make Derik and Abates' caches of Google-archived pages accessible to editors as they come in (Derik mentioned it'll take over a week to get a complete set off Google.)
#if possible, automate the stripping of HTML tags and other non-Wiki goop from those pages before anyone tries to edit them, including Wikia links.
#find a way to divvy up a restoration workload among our 50 or so regular editors.
#find a new server. We would be idiots to remain here.

I still hope most of this will be unnecessary, but at this point, I'm losing faith. -- '''repowers''' [[Special:Contributions/99.140.167.2|99.140.167.2]] 12:08, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
: Spoke with Bookworm several times this morning. He still has a few more computers to search for backups, but, well, at this point I'm going to assume the worst. He is going to try to at least get our user database working. He wasn't aware that was a problem until I let him know. I think Scout is trying to get all the pages downloaded from Google Caching. I've grabbed a few of my own, but she's got, like, thousands of pages so far.
: As for getting a new server... anybody got any ideas? Hell if I know. Frankly, don't listen to me anyway on that. --Walky

::Take everything down immediately. The longer the site stays up as-is, the greater the risk of contaminating Google's March 9th cache and the more linkbacks we send to Wikia. Then we either beg Google for a mass infodump, or.... 50 editors grab 160 pages each. EDIT: or Scout gets them! Thanks, Scout; good to see at least the words "silver lining" in print, even if I don't see the actual thing itself yet.... '''Thylacine 2000'''--[[Special:Contributions/74.73.131.210|74.73.131.210]] 12:17, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::If we take everything down, what are we going to edit back together? WHEN are we going to edit everything back together? Taking it down just delays our ability to fix it. --Walky
::::If we've got our copy of the cache, then site shutdown isn't nearly as important. The main concern is that we'd lose the Google cache. Looking like retards... well, we'll just have to take our lumps there. (I guess we could set permissions for content pages to only logged-in users? Dunno.) -- '''repowers''' [[Special:Contributions/99.140.167.2|99.140.167.2]] 12:30, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::Even if it doesn't overwrite the cache, I see no reason to have the site up given the state that it's in. I say take it down until the head-honchos figure out how to clean up this mess. '''(Undecided)''' [[Special:Contributions/67.185.148.107|67.185.148.107]] 16:13, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::'''Dudes'''. I noticed our front page's google cache has been updated to our current broken wiki page. So it's already begun. That's just great. --'''FFN'''

==I am a dumb, stupid man==
Just to get that out of the way. Should have told BK to back off on the database upgrade as soon as I saw his original email, and maybe we shouldn't have been here on this server to begin with. It was my call, after all. I'll do my best to make it up to you. Especially TOOG and McFeely, who did so many pages. When I remembered Google caches stuff at like 7 in the morning and started downloading pages whole-hog, theirs was the work I went after first. BEFORE HOT SHOT. That is how bad I feel. Nobody should have to watch through Energon twice. Or, uh, once. This is a terrible, horrible thing, brought on partially by my own incompetence and unassertiveness. Other people shouldn't have to learn my needed life lessons with me. --Walky

==What we've actually lost==
Okay, I've been trying to assess and give a realistic account of the information we appear to be missing. It's hampered by the lack of a search option, meaing I've been having to hit the random button until I've gotten to a page I can link to, and I may be missing something things, but I believe that we have lost the following sections:
*The work McFeely did on [[Energon (cartoon)|Energon]].
*[[Revelation]]
*[[All Hail Megatron]]
*[[The Reign of Starscream]]
*[[Maximum Dinobots]]
*[[Alliance]]
*[[Defiance]]
*[[Universe (2008)]]
*[[Revenge of the Fallen]] updates.
*Abates screen captures on [[Beast Wars]], [[Beast Machines]], and [[Generation 1]].
*Updated screen captures for [[Transformers Animated]] season 1 and 2.
*Last but not least, all we know of [[Transformers Animated]] season 3.

If I missed anything that stands out, please let me know. If all I've done is seriously depress you, then...I don't really know how to respond to that. -- SFH 13:49, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

:I'm not sure how worthwhile this is. I could add that we've lost almost everything related to the S.T.A.R.S. continuity (including the meta-page with that name), but seriously, we could keep listing pages forever. Not to mention that probably a huge majority of the existing pages have lost a lot of updates. I don't think there's anything we rank-and-file editors can do until either Walky appears brandishing a "routine backup" or Scout et al. get the Google cache sorted out and implemented. At THAT point, maybe taking stock would be a good idea, but until then, let's just go outside and get some fresh air. Toss a Frisbee around. Call up an old friend. - '''Jackpot''' [[Special:Contributions/216.231.37.133|216.231.37.133]] 14:01, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

::Yeah, we need a systemic, all-encompassing, computer-generated list of every page, since pretty much every page has probably been edited since the split. (though for the record, my list includes 15-20 Energon eps and 20-30 rewritten subgroup pages.) Said list needs a checklist option or something. I dunno. I had this written more coherently before the save page thing crashed. Whee, are we having fun yet? -- '''repowers''' [[Special:Contributions/99.140.167.2|99.140.167.2]] 14:28, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:I still have all those screen captures, so I can reupload them if necessary. Of course, the images are actually still on the server, but the out-of-date database doesn't know they're there. I grabbed a complete set of Beast Machines episode articles and a near-complete set of RID episode articles from various caches last night. Unfortunately the software I wrote for doing the same only grabbed 53 articles before it was throttled. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 14:47, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::We lost all the Titan collections that Emvee and I did. They weren't cached yet, but oddly the main Titan page had a cached version with the links I made to the individual pages. Wierd. This loss hits me really hard since I didn't start editing until this winter and '''everything''' I've contributed is now potentially gone. Since the tfwiki is one of the few joys I've had lately, it makes me feel a bit useless now. --Bluestreak7 [[Special:Contributions/98.213.132.186|98.213.132.186]] 15:03, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::''Of course, the images are actually still on the server, but the out-of-date database doesn't know they're there.''
::If that's the case, then perhaps they can be reinstated when/if Bookworm compiles a list of files on the server that are newer than a given date.--Apcog [[Special:Contributions/99.158.0.251|99.158.0.251]] 15:38, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
That'd be Rob's work on Energon, not mine. I've lost around half the Victory cartoon, and ''every single fucking Japanese character article I ever did that's not Shuta.'' I thought we were only back to post-move September status, but we've actually regressed to June. - '''McFeely''' [[Special:Contributions/81.158.171.149|81.158.171.149]] 15:17, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:I just saved as many of the Masterforce character articles as I could from Yahoo and MSN's cache (Google throttled me again) --[[Special:Contributions/203.97.2.142|203.97.2.142]] 16:15, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

In the event that we can't find a more recent backup (and at this point, if server dude can find one from even as recently as January, I'd be overjoyed), do we at least still have the original dump we exported in September which doesn't have all the wikia links at the bottom? --[[Special:Contributions/203.97.2.142|203.97.2.142]] 16:11, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

Henkei's articles - toys, pack-in manga, and Comic Bun Bun are lost as well. Typing "henkei" in the search redirects back to the old Classics (2006) with it's last mod date May 2008. Cache helps a bit though. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 00:26, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

== Anything the rank and file could do? ==

OK, so there's obviously alot of scrambling going on from all who can to recover all the massive chunks of what's been lost, my question: is it at all helpful for the rank and file occasional contributor to be doing any editting at this point? I mean, I'm sure there are a bunch of us who would be willing to edit and add here and there to fix up what small bits and pages we can. Or would such small additions and peicemeal fixes just get in the way of the eventual large scale repairs? --[[Special:Contributions/71.235.138.121|71.235.138.121]] 14:59, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

:We really don't know yet. It depends on what Derik and Scout come back with. I can't imagine there's any harm in restoring pages by hand (it could presumably get lost in whatever mass upgrades we end up doing... or not. I have no idea.) Mostly, just sit tight for the moment. When we get a system figured out, we'll ring the bells to summon the fire brigade. -- '''repowers''' [[Special:Contributions/99.140.167.2|99.140.167.2]] 15:25, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

Pick a page. Stick <nowiki>{{bookworm}}</nowiki> at the top, it'll give you a link to that page's google cache. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:33, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

== How do I properly add info to an article's "recover" page? ==

I've done the bookworm tag on some articles and saved the google cache to my harddrive... question is, how do I post this data to the articles' /recover sections? Just copy'n'paste the text, or go nab the source code? Detour --[[Special:Contributions/70.26.248.28|70.26.248.28]] 18:22, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:I expect source code would be more useful. It will preserve the formatting, and someone can probably write a script to convert it back to wiki code. Plus, if I'm wrong, it's trivial to convert the source code to text, whereas you can't really go the other way. '''Chip''' [[Special:Contributions/69.139.147.179|69.139.147.179]] 19:01, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

:I do both, one after the other.
:The first is easier to re-format, but you'll often need to be able tog et the links out of the source code. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:01, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

== Automated Cache Recovery ==
Will this program I happened upon help any? [http://warrick.cs.odu.edu/warrick.html Warrick]. It's supposed to be something that can automate getting websites from various web caches. I put a job in their queue, but if someone who has web stuff (it needs Perl 5 installed) set up on their comp can run the program themselves right now, that would help. Or is that the sort of thing Derik and Suki are already doing? (Basically, I'd like to help, but I don't even know what "phase" we're on...) --[[Special:Contributions/96.240.212.69|96.240.212.69]] 18:59, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:It's being run. It'll take some time, and e3ven then... that's just grabbing a copy of the google cache before it vanishes.
:(Personally I'm banking on a localized reversal of [[The Fallen|the second law of thermodynamics]].) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:01, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::Well, if we're in the midst of saving the Google cache, than what we should do is... 1. Get a copy of as many cached pages as we can. 2. run them all through some sort of preprocessor 3. get a list of editors willing to help, give them each a chunk of the processed pages, and tell them to go to town reposting them. There's no sense in having people running around doing things piecemeal instead of being systematic about it.
::Which is why I was wondering if there was some sort of system already for having people grab cache pages, rather than just doing it randomly. I've been using [http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/allpages.htm this page] based on Abates' list to grab cache links for the Main namespace, and I have the first 400 links opened so far. Maybe if everyone took so many pages? (Although I have the advantage that I can force change my IP every time I run into Google's annoying throttle wall.)
::Also, I was thinking that we might consider just simply making a fresh install of the wiki software with an empty database, then simply recreating everything, if we're going to have to repost everything by hand anyway... --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/96.233.179.58|96.233.179.58]] 20:48, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::Make that the first 500, which I'm going to work on saving now. Do our various editors want to post here and lay a claim on a set of numbers on the list and work on opening and saving them? (They link straight to the cache page.) Not all of the links converted cleanly, but it's probably easier to just manually fix them as you go instead of me trying to spend time manually cleaning and reposting the list. I figure, once we know we've got the Main namespace pages saved, we can then work on trying to figure out the other namespaces. (Template and Help at the very least.) --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.218.239|72.79.218.239]] 21:06, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

== Restoring account status ==

Is it better to recreate an account, possibly messing up the caches for one's User Contributions, Talk Page, etc., so uploading images and such is possible? Or should we just sit tight a bit longer on that aspect until more restoration is done?--Apcog [[Special:Contributions/99.158.0.251|99.158.0.251]] 19:24, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:Re-create. -[[Special:Contributions/207.224.69.82|207.224.69.82]] 20:02, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::Feh. Okay, done.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 20:13, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

== Pages "recovered" list ==

In the however likely case we are not able to get a full set of backups from Bookworm, we should probably keep a list of pages somewhere that have been at least partially recovered via Derik's bookworm template and google's cache or other caches. This way any rank-n-file editor who wants to help out can just look at the list to see what's been done so they can go save other pages. Another way is to get that listing of all the pages and have users check them off when they've been partially recovered. Thoughts? --Bluestreak7 [[Special:Contributions/98.213.132.186|98.213.132.186]] 19:53, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:Well, here's a list of all pages that need to be ''recovered'' from the Main namespace: http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/allpages.htm with links straight to the cache pages. I've opened the first 500 links so far, and am half done with saving them, then I'll work on the next 500. Anyone else want to pitch in, lay claim to a range of numbers to save, and get on it? (Note: Not all of the links coverted over right, though most of them did. If you get an error, just fix any goofs in the link and try again. And keep a list of any pages where, even after checking the link was correct, it just didn't have a cache to save.) --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/96.240.208.203|96.240.208.203]] 21:48, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:I've written a Perl script to convert the HTML back to Wiki markup. It's not perfect, and I need to test it on more cache files, but it's faster than reformatting by hand. It could be provided as an online tool, maybe. --abates not signed in [[Special:Contributions/203.97.2.142|203.97.2.142]] 22:00, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::Okay, I'm starting on the 7000s. I'll see how far I can get before I need to get to bed. I'm still holding on to hope that all this cache work is for nothing, but not expecting it. [[User:Bluestreak7|Bluestreak7]] 22:28, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::I'll start the 6500s. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:30, 16 March 2009 (EDT) I got up to 6600 before it stopped me. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:47, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::::I'll at least be doing up to the first 1000 myself. And, I've found that if you have any way to change your IP, that will reset Google's throttle stop. (People who have rotating IPs can likely do this simply by disconnecting/reconnecting.) I also went and fixed all the broken links that didn't convert right, so feel free to refresh my list for the latest version. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:50, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::I have a feeling we shouldn't worry about the early ones. Both Derik and Scout have automated scripts for this, and I'm sure that's where they started. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:54, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::I'll try and do from 6000 to 6499, then. I've also got a bunch of other pages saved already, mostly G1 character pages. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 22:56, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::::Well, in my epic suckitude coupled with having other engagements I need to get finished... I've only made it to 6050... maybe someone can pick up my slack? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:54, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::::Starting with 6601. '''Chip''' [[Special:Contributions/69.139.147.179|69.139.147.179]] 23:06, 16 March 2009 (EDT) Ended at 6710. '''Chip''' [[Special:Contributions/69.139.147.179|69.139.147.179]] 23:55, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
Do we have a simple, automated way to grab this stuff? '''Chip'''

===Status Report===
====Main Article Namespace====
Jeysie: 
Working on:7140-8292 
Completed: 1-1000 
Unrecoverable: 1984 media, 2008 media, Akari Hibino, All Fall Down (disambiguation), Alpha Trion (disambiguation), April 6, April 16, April 19, Autofire, Automatic timer, Banjo-Ginga, Bat-Rob, Binbo-gami, Break Is a Predacon?

Detour 
Working on: 
Completed: 6000-6050 
Unrecoverable: Ryo- Naito-, Ryo-ichi Tanaka, Ryo-ka Yuzuki

ItsWalky 
Working on: 
Completed: 6500-6600 
Unrecoverable: Small Foot, Sojourner's Passage

Chip 
Working on: 
Completed: 6601-6710 
Unrecoverable: Spark (episode)

Bluestreak7 
Working on: 
Completed: 7000-7140 
Unrecoverable: Takuro- Kitagawa, Teiyu- Ichiryu-sai, Tessho-Genda

====="Unrecoverable" pages=====
Those are actually recoverable. They're just searched for with the wrong characters, since whatever program we're using isn't equipped to handle odd characters like macrons. I'll be working on them. (Interrobang) [[Special:Contributions/69.23.135.79|69.23.135.79]] 00:53, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

== Synchronize watches! ==

Hey techy type folks, I know y'all are busy right now, but there's a few things that need to happen so we aren't wasting people's effort and good will:

* We need a site-wide page-top banner with a short note on what's happened and quick links to the relevant threads, pages, instructions on restoring pages, etc. Also maybe an update on things as required.
* We need to coordinate Google cache pulling, if it isn't happening already behind the scenes. So far it sounds like Scout, Jeysie, Derik, Abates, and maybe some others have been pulling stuff en masse. It suck if like, everyone was pulling the same stuff and missing the same other stuff.
* The cache pull results need to be pooled into one big conglomerated mess somewhere. And auto-stripping/formatting, but y'all already know that.
* We need a temporary tag/template that can be slapped on top of a page when it's restored. Just a small text note would be adequate.

Sorry if I'm nagging and/or telling you stuff you already know, but everyone's efforts seem kind of random at the moment. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 21:49, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:Yeah, agreed. Like I said above, I'd prefer to:
#Have everyone right now just work on saving the Google cache before it changes. This is really the important thing right now, IMHO... we can't recover pages unless we have something to recover ''from''.
#''Then'' we can work on divving up the cached pages, sending them through a processor, and having people repost their batch of page code on the pages themselves (or on a clean install, would be my preference), doing any necessary manual cleanup as they go along.
:The current state of people sort of saving and restoring random individual pages on "recover" subpages isn't really all that helpful, IMHO. The wiki's going to look ugly for a while regardless; better to just be patient on making stuff look good and just tackle this in a somewhat organized fashion instead. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:10, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::This lack of coordination and general secrecy is hurting efforts. Since I requested help, people on TFW2005 have offered to help out, including people from beyond the board, but they're all asking me what they are supposed to do with their saved browser cache pages/google cache pages. I've been telling them to sit tight until *somebody* tells the people on the wiki what to do. Hopefully, something will be salvaged and this effort won't be needed... but what do I know? I have no idea what the status of things are beyond this page. I do have one suggestion - if and when we get things back to some form of normalcy, we better post a thank you message on the front page for all of those people who offered us help and/or best wishes. --FFN

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central

2009-03-17T04:53:49Z

69.23.135.79: /* Main Article Namespace */

Additional discussion on this situation can be found on these Allspark.com threads:
* [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=56439 "TFWiki Problems, Any idea what's going on?"]
* [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=51208&st=400&p=1155749&#entry1155749 "Major Wiki Work, A thread for additions to Transformers wikis."]

==Hey hey, what can I do==
I think at this point we must begin formulating plans based on the assumption that the site is a total loss. This means damage control first, then restoration, then prevention.

Assuming no good news comes through, it seems to me we need to take the following steps. Bein' that I'm not a tech guy, there may be more options than what I'm seeing, but here's what I figure we gotta do:

#take down the bulk of the site's pages so Google's cache will not overwrite them
#figure out a system to make Derik and Abates' caches of Google-archived pages accessible to editors as they come in (Derik mentioned it'll take over a week to get a complete set off Google.)
#if possible, automate the stripping of HTML tags and other non-Wiki goop from those pages before anyone tries to edit them, including Wikia links.
#find a way to divvy up a restoration workload among our 50 or so regular editors.
#find a new server. We would be idiots to remain here.

I still hope most of this will be unnecessary, but at this point, I'm losing faith. -- '''repowers''' [[Special:Contributions/99.140.167.2|99.140.167.2]] 12:08, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
: Spoke with Bookworm several times this morning. He still has a few more computers to search for backups, but, well, at this point I'm going to assume the worst. He is going to try to at least get our user database working. He wasn't aware that was a problem until I let him know. I think Scout is trying to get all the pages downloaded from Google Caching. I've grabbed a few of my own, but she's got, like, thousands of pages so far.
: As for getting a new server... anybody got any ideas? Hell if I know. Frankly, don't listen to me anyway on that. --Walky

::Take everything down immediately. The longer the site stays up as-is, the greater the risk of contaminating Google's March 9th cache and the more linkbacks we send to Wikia. Then we either beg Google for a mass infodump, or.... 50 editors grab 160 pages each. EDIT: or Scout gets them! Thanks, Scout; good to see at least the words "silver lining" in print, even if I don't see the actual thing itself yet.... '''Thylacine 2000'''--[[Special:Contributions/74.73.131.210|74.73.131.210]] 12:17, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::If we take everything down, what are we going to edit back together? WHEN are we going to edit everything back together? Taking it down just delays our ability to fix it. --Walky
::::If we've got our copy of the cache, then site shutdown isn't nearly as important. The main concern is that we'd lose the Google cache. Looking like retards... well, we'll just have to take our lumps there. (I guess we could set permissions for content pages to only logged-in users? Dunno.) -- '''repowers''' [[Special:Contributions/99.140.167.2|99.140.167.2]] 12:30, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::Even if it doesn't overwrite the cache, I see no reason to have the site up given the state that it's in. I say take it down until the head-honchos figure out how to clean up this mess. '''(Undecided)''' [[Special:Contributions/67.185.148.107|67.185.148.107]] 16:13, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::'''Dudes'''. I noticed our front page's google cache has been updated to our current broken wiki page. So it's already begun. That's just great. --'''FFN'''

==I am a dumb, stupid man==
Just to get that out of the way. Should have told BK to back off on the database upgrade as soon as I saw his original email, and maybe we shouldn't have been here on this server to begin with. It was my call, after all. I'll do my best to make it up to you. Especially TOOG and McFeely, who did so many pages. When I remembered Google caches stuff at like 7 in the morning and started downloading pages whole-hog, theirs was the work I went after first. BEFORE HOT SHOT. That is how bad I feel. Nobody should have to watch through Energon twice. Or, uh, once. This is a terrible, horrible thing, brought on partially by my own incompetence and unassertiveness. Other people shouldn't have to learn my needed life lessons with me. --Walky

==What we've actually lost==
Okay, I've been trying to assess and give a realistic account of the information we appear to be missing. It's hampered by the lack of a search option, meaing I've been having to hit the random button until I've gotten to a page I can link to, and I may be missing something things, but I believe that we have lost the following sections:
*The work McFeely did on [[Energon (cartoon)|Energon]].
*[[Revelation]]
*[[All Hail Megatron]]
*[[The Reign of Starscream]]
*[[Maximum Dinobots]]
*[[Alliance]]
*[[Defiance]]
*[[Universe (2008)]]
*[[Revenge of the Fallen]] updates.
*Abates screen captures on [[Beast Wars]], [[Beast Machines]], and [[Generation 1]].
*Updated screen captures for [[Transformers Animated]] season 1 and 2.
*Last but not least, all we know of [[Transformers Animated]] season 3.

If I missed anything that stands out, please let me know. If all I've done is seriously depress you, then...I don't really know how to respond to that. -- SFH 13:49, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

:I'm not sure how worthwhile this is. I could add that we've lost almost everything related to the S.T.A.R.S. continuity (including the meta-page with that name), but seriously, we could keep listing pages forever. Not to mention that probably a huge majority of the existing pages have lost a lot of updates. I don't think there's anything we rank-and-file editors can do until either Walky appears brandishing a "routine backup" or Scout et al. get the Google cache sorted out and implemented. At THAT point, maybe taking stock would be a good idea, but until then, let's just go outside and get some fresh air. Toss a Frisbee around. Call up an old friend. - '''Jackpot''' [[Special:Contributions/216.231.37.133|216.231.37.133]] 14:01, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

::Yeah, we need a systemic, all-encompassing, computer-generated list of every page, since pretty much every page has probably been edited since the split. (though for the record, my list includes 15-20 Energon eps and 20-30 rewritten subgroup pages.) Said list needs a checklist option or something. I dunno. I had this written more coherently before the save page thing crashed. Whee, are we having fun yet? -- '''repowers''' [[Special:Contributions/99.140.167.2|99.140.167.2]] 14:28, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:I still have all those screen captures, so I can reupload them if necessary. Of course, the images are actually still on the server, but the out-of-date database doesn't know they're there. I grabbed a complete set of Beast Machines episode articles and a near-complete set of RID episode articles from various caches last night. Unfortunately the software I wrote for doing the same only grabbed 53 articles before it was throttled. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 14:47, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::We lost all the Titan collections that Emvee and I did. They weren't cached yet, but oddly the main Titan page had a cached version with the links I made to the individual pages. Wierd. This loss hits me really hard since I didn't start editing until this winter and '''everything''' I've contributed is now potentially gone. Since the tfwiki is one of the few joys I've had lately, it makes me feel a bit useless now. --Bluestreak7 [[Special:Contributions/98.213.132.186|98.213.132.186]] 15:03, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::''Of course, the images are actually still on the server, but the out-of-date database doesn't know they're there.''
::If that's the case, then perhaps they can be reinstated when/if Bookworm compiles a list of files on the server that are newer than a given date.--Apcog [[Special:Contributions/99.158.0.251|99.158.0.251]] 15:38, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
That'd be Rob's work on Energon, not mine. I've lost around half the Victory cartoon, and ''every single fucking Japanese character article I ever did that's not Shuta.'' I thought we were only back to post-move September status, but we've actually regressed to June. - '''McFeely''' [[Special:Contributions/81.158.171.149|81.158.171.149]] 15:17, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:I just saved as many of the Masterforce character articles as I could from Yahoo and MSN's cache (Google throttled me again) --[[Special:Contributions/203.97.2.142|203.97.2.142]] 16:15, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

In the event that we can't find a more recent backup (and at this point, if server dude can find one from even as recently as January, I'd be overjoyed), do we at least still have the original dump we exported in September which doesn't have all the wikia links at the bottom? --[[Special:Contributions/203.97.2.142|203.97.2.142]] 16:11, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

Henkei's articles - toys, pack-in manga, and Comic Bun Bun are lost as well. Typing "henkei" in the search redirects back to the old Classics (2006) with it's last mod date May 2008. Cache helps a bit though. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 00:26, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

== Anything the rank and file could do? ==

OK, so there's obviously alot of scrambling going on from all who can to recover all the massive chunks of what's been lost, my question: is it at all helpful for the rank and file occasional contributor to be doing any editting at this point? I mean, I'm sure there are a bunch of us who would be willing to edit and add here and there to fix up what small bits and pages we can. Or would such small additions and peicemeal fixes just get in the way of the eventual large scale repairs? --[[Special:Contributions/71.235.138.121|71.235.138.121]] 14:59, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

:We really don't know yet. It depends on what Derik and Scout come back with. I can't imagine there's any harm in restoring pages by hand (it could presumably get lost in whatever mass upgrades we end up doing... or not. I have no idea.) Mostly, just sit tight for the moment. When we get a system figured out, we'll ring the bells to summon the fire brigade. -- '''repowers''' [[Special:Contributions/99.140.167.2|99.140.167.2]] 15:25, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

Pick a page. Stick <nowiki>{{bookworm}}</nowiki> at the top, it'll give you a link to that page's google cache. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:33, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

== How do I properly add info to an article's "recover" page? ==

I've done the bookworm tag on some articles and saved the google cache to my harddrive... question is, how do I post this data to the articles' /recover sections? Just copy'n'paste the text, or go nab the source code? Detour --[[Special:Contributions/70.26.248.28|70.26.248.28]] 18:22, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:I expect source code would be more useful. It will preserve the formatting, and someone can probably write a script to convert it back to wiki code. Plus, if I'm wrong, it's trivial to convert the source code to text, whereas you can't really go the other way. '''Chip''' [[Special:Contributions/69.139.147.179|69.139.147.179]] 19:01, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

:I do both, one after the other.
:The first is easier to re-format, but you'll often need to be able tog et the links out of the source code. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:01, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

== Automated Cache Recovery ==
Will this program I happened upon help any? [http://warrick.cs.odu.edu/warrick.html Warrick]. It's supposed to be something that can automate getting websites from various web caches. I put a job in their queue, but if someone who has web stuff (it needs Perl 5 installed) set up on their comp can run the program themselves right now, that would help. Or is that the sort of thing Derik and Suki are already doing? (Basically, I'd like to help, but I don't even know what "phase" we're on...) --[[Special:Contributions/96.240.212.69|96.240.212.69]] 18:59, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:It's being run. It'll take some time, and e3ven then... that's just grabbing a copy of the google cache before it vanishes.
:(Personally I'm banking on a localized reversal of [[The Fallen|the second law of thermodynamics]].) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:01, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::Well, if we're in the midst of saving the Google cache, than what we should do is... 1. Get a copy of as many cached pages as we can. 2. run them all through some sort of preprocessor 3. get a list of editors willing to help, give them each a chunk of the processed pages, and tell them to go to town reposting them. There's no sense in having people running around doing things piecemeal instead of being systematic about it.
::Which is why I was wondering if there was some sort of system already for having people grab cache pages, rather than just doing it randomly. I've been using [http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/allpages.htm this page] based on Abates' list to grab cache links for the Main namespace, and I have the first 400 links opened so far. Maybe if everyone took so many pages? (Although I have the advantage that I can force change my IP every time I run into Google's annoying throttle wall.)
::Also, I was thinking that we might consider just simply making a fresh install of the wiki software with an empty database, then simply recreating everything, if we're going to have to repost everything by hand anyway... --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/96.233.179.58|96.233.179.58]] 20:48, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::Make that the first 500, which I'm going to work on saving now. Do our various editors want to post here and lay a claim on a set of numbers on the list and work on opening and saving them? (They link straight to the cache page.) Not all of the links converted cleanly, but it's probably easier to just manually fix them as you go instead of me trying to spend time manually cleaning and reposting the list. I figure, once we know we've got the Main namespace pages saved, we can then work on trying to figure out the other namespaces. (Template and Help at the very least.) --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.218.239|72.79.218.239]] 21:06, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

== Restoring account status ==

Is it better to recreate an account, possibly messing up the caches for one's User Contributions, Talk Page, etc., so uploading images and such is possible? Or should we just sit tight a bit longer on that aspect until more restoration is done?--Apcog [[Special:Contributions/99.158.0.251|99.158.0.251]] 19:24, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:Re-create. -[[Special:Contributions/207.224.69.82|207.224.69.82]] 20:02, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::Feh. Okay, done.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 20:13, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

== Pages "recovered" list ==

In the however likely case we are not able to get a full set of backups from Bookworm, we should probably keep a list of pages somewhere that have been at least partially recovered via Derik's bookworm template and google's cache or other caches. This way any rank-n-file editor who wants to help out can just look at the list to see what's been done so they can go save other pages. Another way is to get that listing of all the pages and have users check them off when they've been partially recovered. Thoughts? --Bluestreak7 [[Special:Contributions/98.213.132.186|98.213.132.186]] 19:53, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:Well, here's a list of all pages that need to be ''recovered'' from the Main namespace: http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/allpages.htm with links straight to the cache pages. I've opened the first 500 links so far, and am half done with saving them, then I'll work on the next 500. Anyone else want to pitch in, lay claim to a range of numbers to save, and get on it? (Note: Not all of the links coverted over right, though most of them did. If you get an error, just fix any goofs in the link and try again. And keep a list of any pages where, even after checking the link was correct, it just didn't have a cache to save.) --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/96.240.208.203|96.240.208.203]] 21:48, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:I've written a Perl script to convert the HTML back to Wiki markup. It's not perfect, and I need to test it on more cache files, but it's faster than reformatting by hand. It could be provided as an online tool, maybe. --abates not signed in [[Special:Contributions/203.97.2.142|203.97.2.142]] 22:00, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::Okay, I'm starting on the 7000s. I'll see how far I can get before I need to get to bed. I'm still holding on to hope that all this cache work is for nothing, but not expecting it. [[User:Bluestreak7|Bluestreak7]] 22:28, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::I'll start the 6500s. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:30, 16 March 2009 (EDT) I got up to 6600 before it stopped me. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:47, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::::I'll at least be doing up to the first 1000 myself. And, I've found that if you have any way to change your IP, that will reset Google's throttle stop. (People who have rotating IPs can likely do this simply by disconnecting/reconnecting.) I also went and fixed all the broken links that didn't convert right, so feel free to refresh my list for the latest version. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:50, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::I have a feeling we shouldn't worry about the early ones. Both Derik and Scout have automated scripts for this, and I'm sure that's where they started. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:54, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::I'll try and do from 6000 to 6499, then. I've also got a bunch of other pages saved already, mostly G1 character pages. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 22:56, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::::Well, in my epic suckitude coupled with having other engagements I need to get finished... I've only made it to 6050... maybe someone can pick up my slack? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:54, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::::Starting with 6601. '''Chip''' [[Special:Contributions/69.139.147.179|69.139.147.179]] 23:06, 16 March 2009 (EDT) Ended at 6710. '''Chip''' [[Special:Contributions/69.139.147.179|69.139.147.179]] 23:55, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
Do we have a simple, automated way to grab this stuff? '''Chip'''

===Status Report===
====Main Article Namespace====
Jeysie: 
Working on:7140-8292 
Completed: 1-1000 
Unrecoverable: 1984 media, 2008 media, Akari Hibino, All Fall Down (disambiguation), Alpha Trion (disambiguation), April 6, April 16, April 19, Autofire, Automatic timer, Banjo-Ginga, Bat-Rob, Binbo-gami, Break Is a Predacon?

Detour 
Working on: 
Completed: 6000-6050 
Unrecoverable: Ryo- Naito-, Ryo-ichi Tanaka, Ryo-ka Yuzuki

ItsWalky 
Working on: 
Completed: 6500-6600 
Unrecoverable: Small Foot, Sojourner's Passage

Chip 
Working on: 
Completed: 6601-6710 
Unrecoverable: Spark (episode)

Bluestreak7 
Working on: 
Completed: 7000-7140 
Unrecoverable: Takuro- Kitagawa, Teiyu- Ichiryu-sai, Tessho-Genda

====="Unrecoverable" pages=====
Those are actually recoverable. They're just searched for with the wrong characters, since whatever program we're using isn't equipped to handle odd characters like macrons. I'll be working on them. [[Special:Contributions/69.23.135.79|69.23.135.79]] 00:53, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

== Synchronize watches! ==

Hey techy type folks, I know y'all are busy right now, but there's a few things that need to happen so we aren't wasting people's effort and good will:

* We need a site-wide page-top banner with a short note on what's happened and quick links to the relevant threads, pages, instructions on restoring pages, etc. Also maybe an update on things as required.
* We need to coordinate Google cache pulling, if it isn't happening already behind the scenes. So far it sounds like Scout, Jeysie, Derik, Abates, and maybe some others have been pulling stuff en masse. It suck if like, everyone was pulling the same stuff and missing the same other stuff.
* The cache pull results need to be pooled into one big conglomerated mess somewhere. And auto-stripping/formatting, but y'all already know that.
* We need a temporary tag/template that can be slapped on top of a page when it's restored. Just a small text note would be adequate.

Sorry if I'm nagging and/or telling you stuff you already know, but everyone's efforts seem kind of random at the moment. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 21:49, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:Yeah, agreed. Like I said above, I'd prefer to:
#Have everyone right now just work on saving the Google cache before it changes. This is really the important thing right now, IMHO... we can't recover pages unless we have something to recover ''from''.
#''Then'' we can work on divving up the cached pages, sending them through a processor, and having people repost their batch of page code on the pages themselves (or on a clean install, would be my preference), doing any necessary manual cleanup as they go along.
:The current state of people sort of saving and restoring random individual pages on "recover" subpages isn't really all that helpful, IMHO. The wiki's going to look ugly for a while regardless; better to just be patient on making stuff look good and just tackle this in a somewhat organized fashion instead. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:10, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::This lack of coordination and general secrecy is hurting efforts. Since I requested help, people on TFW2005 have offered to help out, including people from beyond the board, but they're all asking me what they are supposed to do with their saved browser cache pages/google cache pages. I've been telling them to sit tight until *somebody* tells the people on the wiki what to do. Hopefully, something will be salvaged and this effort won't be needed... but what do I know? I have no idea what the status of things are beyond this page. I do have one suggestion - if and when we get things back to some form of normalcy, we better post a thank you message on the front page for all of those people who offered us help and/or best wishes. --FFN

Talk:Main Page

2009-03-16T01:26:43Z

69.23.135.79: /* What happen? */

THE FUNNY STAYS.
-The Management

__TOC__

Please use this talk page for discussion about the [[Main Page]].

To discuss site-wide policies, please visit [[Transformers Wiki Talk:Community Portal|the Community Portal talk page]].

==Archives==
*[[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1|Archive1]]
*[[Talk:Main_Page/Archive2|Archive2]]
*[[Talk:Main_Page/Archive3|Archive3]]

==What happen?==

So...what on Earth has happened to the TFWiki? Also, for some reason the old Wikia seems to have gained all of the articles that are now missing from here. (Such as the Season 3 animated stuff)
:Seems to me that we've reverted to a June 2008 version of the database which could be really bad news. Some of my articles [[Macabre]] for example are at the old site but not here, which would make sense since I wrote it in September 2008 before we moved here. I don't even have a login here anymore - Emvee :( [[Special:Contributions/77.102.92.218|77.102.92.218]] 19:31, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::Looks like our brain-damaged friend is back again.
:::There's some more info on the [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=51208&view=findpost&p=1155749 wiki thread in the Allspark forums]. Looks like an upgrade handled very very sloppily. I'm hoping once they restore the old database it'll overwrite the changes made in the interim, seeing as how our favorite Idiot Vandal With No Life is on a rampage. (Sigh.) Wiping out his stupid crap in one go would be priceless. (This is Jeysie, BTW.) --[[Special:Contributions/72.79.219.120|72.79.219.120]] 19:41, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::Thank Primus. I was worried someone had hacked in and deleted the database. The thought of 6 months work lost filled me with dread. --abates 19:46, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::Ditto. Dread all round here too. Good to know it's in hand. --Emvee [[Special:Contributions/77.102.92.218|77.102.92.218]] 19:48, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::You know... assuming it does get overwritten so we don't have to worry about undoing it, watching our pet vandal complain about how the wiki malfunctioning prevents him from vandalizing properly is one of the most morbidly hilarious things I've seen in a while. -Jeysie --[[Special:Contributions/72.79.219.120|72.79.219.120]] 20:07, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::::Don't I know it, I was just having a laugh at that with the other half :) --Emvee [[Special:Contributions/77.102.92.218|77.102.92.218]] 20:16, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::You know, there are some benefits about this. On the one hand, people don't have to worry about being spoiled about TransWarped. On the other, we get to see Assaulthead self-destruct in rage as he can't vandalize the wiki. However, there is one concern: What if they can't retrieve the lost information? -- (SFH) [[Special:Contributions/67.164.210.225|67.164.210.225]] 20:11, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::I'm assuming that Bookworm made a database backup before he started work. Should be fairly simple to upload it again. Which means this conversation never happened. --Emvee [[Special:Contributions/77.102.92.218|77.102.92.218]] 20:16, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::I've decided I don't want to think about what happens if he didn't. (Realistically about all we could do is a crapload of trawling through Google's cache, but even then we'd pretty much be seriously hosed.) --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.219.120|72.79.219.120]] 20:18, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::I didn't spot this thread until right after emailing Suki and Walky (one knows the code well, the other is right by the servers) about the situation (though I figure they already know), as I thought it might have been Assaulthead showing a heretofore hidden hacking genius. (Hey, if Bulkhead can be a space bridge genius...) I hope to heck we don't lose all those months of work. Someone really needs to work on that update process... --Apcog [[Special:Contributions/99.158.0.251|99.158.0.251]] 20:21, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::It would be a real pain if all that work was lost. I hope it's not. How long would it take to get everything back up again? --Tribor

Guys, stop worrying and check out the community portal talk page. That's been restored and its last post was only a couple of days ago. Unless that's the ''only'' page on the enitire wiki that was backed-up, the most that could maybe have been lost is a couple of days' worth. (Okay, as soon as I wrote this, that page got fucked up, too.) The main thing to think about is first-time visitors seeing the site like this. - Magnus Maximus
:I just find it sad that the only person who can log in (with multiple usernames, it seems) is the guy with the (so imaginative) gift for profanity. --Emvee [[Special:Contributions/77.102.92.218|77.102.92.218]] 20:49, 15 March 2009 (EDT)

What worries me, is... why is the database even that far back? Even if we somehow lost everything, we should at least be stuck in how the wiki looked when we first arrived, but we've been rolled almost three months before that. (The last edits in the histories all seem to be mid-June 2008, but didn't we move here in mid-September 2008?) --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.219.120|72.79.219.120]] 21:02, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
: Yeah, but IIRC we moved in with an older backup and ended up losing a little bit of stuff? -hx [[Special:Contributions/24.30.97.198|24.30.97.198]] 21:14, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::Only a few weeks at most, though, IIRC, not three months' worth. (Not that it really matters if we did lose everything, it just makes me even more worried that this backup/upgrade wasn't done right.) --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.219.120|72.79.219.120]] 21:24, 15 March 2009 (EDT)

:::I just don't uderstand why there wasn't a working failsafe in case something like this happened. I mean come on have you ever heard of an SD card or floppy disk? --E-Bot
Somebody set up us the bomb. --Interrobang 21:26, 15 March 2009 (EDT)

== Featured article ==

We have had the same thing there for like 50 years{{unsigned|Human in Disguise|02:22, 7 April 2008}}
:Not really. Jhiaxus was only made a Featured Article on March 2, 2008.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 06:05, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::With 6k articles, maybe we could switch the featured article every month?[[User:Spriteless|Spriteless]] 05:45, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
:::We try to when we can, but usually that involves a big push to improve the given article to featured article standards.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 06:30, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
:::: If someone was just going through the Wikia wikis they might assume that this wiki is a bit quiet. What about just chosing some of the bigger articles every now and again? The larger ones tend to the most highly polished, researched and moderated articles. [[User:Drmick|Drmick]] 19:20, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::Some of the big articles need work because alot of the stuff in them was written in 2006 before we established standards. For instance, G1 Ratchet's article was featured last year I believe, but it was really unevenly written in terms of quality. I mean, for some reason half of the article eschewed storylinks in favour of references. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 20:26, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:We probably should set up some ground rules on what makes a featured article. Right now, it's pretty much what ever Walky wants. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 20:34, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Thunderwing, Nice. --[[User:Human in Disguise|Human in disguise]]

Out of curiosity, how often does it change, or is it just on a whim? [[User:Jeep!|Jeep!]] 14:30, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

== front tf page ==

i hate april fool pranks on my fave tf front page -dr
:What? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 23:11, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

== Funny ==
I think we should remove the funny nes on the page, If it stays, It will sound like a child has being messing up this place and Other people will think it doesn't make sense. [[User:Black rhino ranger|Black rhino ranger]] 09:01, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:You're going to find yourself in the minority regarding this opinion.--[[User:Suzyprime|Suzyprime]] 13:02, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

:Actually, Ranger, people are more likely to think this wiki "doesn't make sense" if it's edited by people who can't spell, conjugate, or use capital letters correctly. [[User:JW|JW]] 18:37, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Who made this again. [[User:Black rhino ranger|Black rhino ranger]] 19:55, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:If that's a question, I don't understand it. [[User:JW|JW]] 20:33, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

But we should Make the images Info not funny, Transformers is ment to be serious, not funny. [[Special:Contributions/82.17.140.55|82.17.140.55]] 15:47, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
:Bullshit. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 17:46, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
::Transformers be [[Bee in the City|'''''serious business''''']] yo. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 18:00, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
:Sir, your erudite argument has at last shown me the light. I have been in error all this time, and you have turned the glare of knowledge against the darkness of my ignorance. Verily, we must all change our ways, and treat the stories about outer space robots that turn into cars as Serious Business. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 18:20, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

But it is unencyclopediac. It looks like a two year old vandalism. [[Special:Contributions/82.17.140.55|82.17.140.55]] 11:33, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

:Thanks for sharing your viewpoint, but, you are very much in the minority. If you object that strongly, start your own Transformers wiki and make it boring. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 21:41, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

:: Or just read the transformers entries on wikipedia. I'm also guessing most people don't like it when you call our writing "like a two year old vandalism". [[User:(Undecided)|(Undecided)]] 03:10, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Face it! Not Everyone likes funny wikis. [[Special:Contributions/82.17.140.55|82.17.140.55]] 15:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
:Since we're one of the largest, highest-traffic wikis on Wikia, I don't think the people who object to "the funny" are a significant enough constituency to force us to change.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:27, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
:Not everyone likes peanut butter! Therefore they should stop making peanut butter. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:31, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

==Search==
So, uh, what happened to the ability to type something into the text box, click "search," and not have it take me directly to a page, but give me a list of pages the term appears in instead? There is no search button on the front page! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:37, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:For as long as I've used the wiki, the Search function has only done that for me if what I've typed didn't match the title of any article exactly. As for the front page, I still see the Search box. I don't know if it makes a difference, but I'm using the Monaco skin.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 14:12, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::That doesn't match my experiences. I could type in "Megatron," click Search, and then it'd give me a list of pages that mention "Megatron" in the body of the text. It was very useful. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:54, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::On the topic of the Monaco skin, can we get some admin feedback on the Monaco skin discussion, please? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:32, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::To be sure, yes, that would be useful. As it is, now you'd have to type something like "Megatron's" or "Megatron" and another word to get similar results. And yeah, I've seen notices for the admins from [[User:Toughpigs|Toughpigs]] asking for feedback and wondered when that was going to be resolved.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 15:13, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:Regarding the search box - typing something into the box and hitting "enter," or clicking "go," is the option that takes you directly to the page with the title you've typed. Typing something into the box and actually clicking the button marked "search" is the option that brings up a list of stuff containing the term, and that's the button we appear to have lost here (although on my screen at least, it's coming and going intermittently, but that's probably a browser cache thing). I've not got the Monaco skin on, but regarding that, I rather like it, and I'd like to see it implimented. There's something very "bare bones" about our set up here, and of course, I know that we kinda have that as a show of "not taking everything too seriously," but I'd personally like to see the Monaco skin in use. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 15:30, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::The same function is in the "Advanced Search" link. Am I the only one who sees it or something? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 18:17, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Cripes, I can't insert a comment before three more jump in before me. No, there's definitely no Search button visible in the Monaco skin as I'm using it, just an arrow with a magnifying glass icon in it (the equivalent of the "Go" button, obviously). I see the "Advanced search" link too, but it doesn't offer quite the same function, in that it doesn't default to the "all text occurrences" option. Rather, you have to choose settings to get that. Not a terrible extra step, but still...--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 18:32, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I see the advanced search link. I also ''REALLY LIKE'' the new 'random page image link' above the search box. Who do I have to thank for that? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 18:28, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I put it in, but it was Siph's idea. Breaking the "Search" button under non-Monaco themes was also my doing, I'm afraid; I was a little zealous with putting in a more useful search and it didn't quite work. It should be back in a day or two. I somehow totally missed any discussion on Monaco coming up; I'll get to commenting on that. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 19:50, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Primarily Wookieepedia for the idea, Blitz for the implementation, and I suppose me for harraunging her about it. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:48, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::A random page on search function is really a good idea because that would make us know about more characters. By the way, I think there still need a normal ''search button'' in the original place . :D --[[User:TX55|TX55]] 01:37, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Then I thank you guys for it. '''IF''' we switch to Monaco, is there any way to do a similar function with that skin? I think the function is very helpful for newcomers to the wiki (and Transformers in general) for they don't have to look through lists of names or randomly search for things. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:17, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::::I don't think it'd be too hard. If we ''do'' switch to Monaco, there'd need to be some changes done to the search box anyway, since under that, there's no "search" button. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 05:56, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
: Is there a way to make the search image load earlier? Right now it's the very last thing to load; even the flash ads come up earlier. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 02:24, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
:: The short answer is no, unfortunately. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 05:56, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Why does the bar show pictures of random characters, but when you go to their pages they have no visual representation? [[User:90.198.228.42|90.198.228.42]] 20:28, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
:Because... I don't know really. I don't know why the powers-at-be chose to create these little search pictures for characters that have no pictures. One would think if they had a reasonably sized image to create the search button picture, they could have uploaded the full size image for the page itself. And/or create searchbox pic-links for characters that DO have decent visual representation AND largely completed articles. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 22:39, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
==Familial relationships==

Should we put something up, relating to the idea of siblings or such[[User:GWolfv2]]
:See [[Relatives]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:07, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

== Redesigning the front page ==

Now that the Monaco skin is the default, and Toughpigs is around to help us out, I suggest we figure out a way to redesign the front page so it isn't just a columns of text. Is there any reasonable way for us to have the franchises in the By Series (or anywhere else, really) represented by the franchise logos? The logos can be as recognisable as the names alone, and given we're getting more and more visitors every day, it would be helpful to make the place more visually pleasing and more user-friendly. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 20:30, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
:I think that's still a [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive2#Logos_for_.27By_series.27_column|bad idea]]. The logos were never designed to look good together, and some (like the 2007 movie) are anti-informative. If you can present a design that somehow makes it work, please do. But I don't see how the new skin changes the basic problems. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 20:56, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
::I tend to think the Main Page and its columns of text are just fine as is. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 21:04, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
::Also, wouldn't it perhaps be best to wait a few days for everyone to get home from BotCon before starting a discussion on more major changes like this? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 21:08, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Didn't stop Toughpigs redesigning the whole Wiki... - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:18, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Toughpigs has been touting the switch to Monaco for quite some time, and he only finally got the nod from an admin just before BotCon.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 23:22, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
Just wanted to say I love the new look.

===Ad bar issues with Monaco?===
I don't know if it's just me, but trying to load the Wiki in Firefox results in it loading everything up to the adserver stuff, and then Firefox proceeds to hang the fuck up, completely use up all available memory, and force me to kill it through Task Manager. It's kind of a pain in the ass.(I'm using explorer right now) [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 00:22, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
:I've had no troubles with Firefox 2, nor Firefox 3 beta 5.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 00:37, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

== Improvement Drive ==
I have no idea how long the "Improvement Drive" column has been there, but it's a great idea, content-wise. However, IMO the links it contains should really be a permanent part of the Help/Start Here column. It's the kind of thing I was talking about [http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Transformers_Wiki_talk:Community_Portal#.22First_go_here.21__Next_go_here..22 a while ago]. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 22:56, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
:Giving this a bump. Input, anyone? Anyone? If nobody protests, I'd like to merge the contents of the "Improvement drive" section with the "Start here" section. Perhaps a blurb on a more specialized improvement drive -- say, our long-dormant BW improvement drive -- could take the place of the current one. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 20:20, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
::Giving this one last bump. If nobody objects, I'm making the changes. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 00:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:One of the reasons the Improvement Drive was disbanded on Wookieepedia was because we instead formed projects such as "Tales of the Jedi project" "The New Essential Chronology project". This allowed us to focus on groups of articles which were in need of updating instead of simply one article. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 00:42, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:::I fully support a "Project" initiative. (Cough cough prose stories cough.) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:07, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::::I can definitely live with that - it looks like one of the new users is actually working on RiD stuff, which is an area that I've felt could use more coverage - it's not my area of knowledge, tho. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 01:43, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::Yeah. I know a lot about the fiction in GENERAL, but when it comes to what happened in what specific episodes and issues? Not so much. Toys are more my forte... --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:49, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::It doesn't help that most of us would need to import the DVDs to write about the fiction. I've been thinking of doing that, but I've already bought a couple of hundred dollars worth of TF DVDs I don't really need soley for writing and screen capping articles for the wiki, which upon reflection is a little insane. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:03, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Please see [[User:Repowers/Sandbox]] for a test page. Feel free to tweak and/or comment. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 04:52, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
:I weaked the disclaimer, added a countdown to TF2 clock (the page de-caches a couple times a day, so it should remain accurate without having to re-edit, I did a sandbox text to verify) and I got rid of the clickable Animated logo, sicne that template still isn't working right and I haven't figured out how to make it work right.
:Re:Improvement Drive... How about we have a 'goals' list for the month? Like, 20 or 30 articles we want to get up to snuff, chosen for balance. A lot of piddling pages, a few episodes or comics no one's gonna get around to on their own, and one or two major character pages. We can track 'em at the end of the month and see how successful we were. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:47, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
::Giving this a bump.
::About the list of "ways to help"... thing is, those up-front lists should be geared toward attracting new editors -- new editors who by definition aren't going to know all the million little persnickety formatting things you have to know to set up a new page. Stuff like "fill in a stub" or "add storylinks" is a lot less intimidating, and a lot easier to slide into, than "here, make this page from scratch." I think an expanded list, akin to what's on my sample sandbox, should be near the top of the page, rather than a bunch of red links. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 22:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

== Main "Transformers Animated" image ==

It really ought to be clickable. Unfortunately, [[:Template:Click]] currently doesn't actually let you center an image-- it probably needs to be rewritten at some point. Unless someone else volunteers, this is mostly just a reminder to myself. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 18:53, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
:Someone just did that and now the link messes up the main page by covering the links to "Comics", "Generation 1", "(toyline/cartoon/comic)", "Generation 2", and "Help contents". Ugh, it was better off the way it was before. Besides, there was a link to the Animated franchise below the giant logo. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 23:27, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
::What poor excuse for a browser are you using? The TFA logo is ''above'' all that stuff. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 23:35, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
:::The image is, but the link is stretching down over the ones below it. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 23:59, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
::::I'm using Firefox, and the link ends WAY before that. I have no troubles whatsoever. - [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 00:20, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
::::Sabrblade, to repeat- "What browser are you using?" -[[Special:Contributions/75.168.112.43|75.168.112.43]] 01:35, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::Internet Explorer 7 is my browser on this particular computer (I use at least three different ones). --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 20:31, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::Well ''there's'' your problem. IE doesn't follow correct HTML protocol, and each version has a different way of not following it. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 21:19, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Just realized I'm having the same problem, using Firefox. The link to [[Transformers Animated (franchise)]] from the image is like, bleeding down or something, covering up some of the links below it. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 18:43, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::::Well, is there any other browser besides Internet Explorer and Firefox that doesn't have the problem? --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 01:31, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::I just went and had a look at [[:Template:Click]] and tried a few things, but it's beyond me. Can we not just do it in html? It would be a hell of a lot simpler...[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 12:51, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::Well, with the "no TF:A Dubai spoilers" text written by Chris McFeely, the image no longer covers the G1 and G2 links. It still bleeds down, but only over the link-free text. So until that text gets erased, the image bleeding isn't much of a problem (but it will be again once that text is gone).[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 01:02, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::Still covers them for me, and I'm using the latest Firefox. I'm going to edit this until someone can come up with a better solution - removing the Dubai text will just make it bleed lower down the page, surely... [[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 16:37, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::::If any one isn't getting the problem [http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h278/Undecided_tmn/Mainpage_error.jpg here is what it looks like] to me. It's the blue highlighted box. [http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h278/Undecided_tmn/Mainpage_error_IE-1.jpg Here is what it looks like in Internet Explorer]. Screen resolution is 1280x1024. [[User:(Undecided)|(Undecided)]] 22:15, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:I replaced it with an imagemap so it links directly to [[Transformers Animated (franchise)]]. Given that the same image is at the top of that page, I don't think we need the main page to link to the Image page if the only way of doing so messes up the rest of the page. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 21:50, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
::Imagemap is working on wikia now? Yay! IIRC it wasn't 18 months ago when you originally took a stab at <nowiki>{{click}}</nowiki> -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:10, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Just to check, can imagemap be set to pave part of the image link to the Image page, or is Click the only thing that can do that. (You'd think a template specificly created for use on the Wikia wiki wouldn't have these issues) --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 22:14, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
::::Wikipedia has a template like this that puts a little blue 'i' in the corner of an image- you click on that to get info about it. In this case it's moot-- a single click takes you to the TFA page that lets you access the image info. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:18, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

=="TF dates"?==
Something else Wookiepedia does on its frontpage we... might want to look at stealing... Putting up a "__/__/__: _____ was released" history box. I dunno. It would only be for like comic books, DVDs, TV episodes, street-release-date toys, etc. Though I dunno if TF really has enough... stuff to do that with. I dunno. Idle thought. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:47, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
:On paper, that's a cool idea. In execution, yeah, I don't think there's quite enough stuff to do it with. We know original episode air dates, and roughly know the street dates of the various comic issues, but we generally have no idea when various and sundry toys hit shelves before, what, '94? If we had enough stuff that there was something to put up at least twice a week (as a "This Week in TF History" thing) I'd say go for it. I guess we could stretch it and add birth dates of TF professionals and that sort of thing, but even then, we're a little sparse, I'd imagine. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 10:42, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

==Front page weirdness==
When clicking on the link for the Generation 1 (comic) or Generation 2 (comic) on the front page, I get taken to Animated (franchise)...but looking at the code the links appear to be correct, else I'd edit them. I've tried refreshing several times but the link is still wrong...anyone else seeing this? [[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 12:11, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] aha, just seen the discussion above about the link "bleeding down"...that would explain it [[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 12:15, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

==Search==
The current search bar only has a "Go" button,we can't look for articles by using keywords now. How are we supposed to look for things we don't know the name of now?[[Special:Contributions/86.87.28.191|86.87.28.191]] 20:54, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:Isn't there a "Search" button right next to the "Go" button? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 20:57, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::I don't think there is a search button on the new skin but if you log in and set the wiki back to monobook in your preferences then you'll have a search button [[User:Donutter|Donut]] 21:02, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
: Are we talking Monaco skin, the one with the little arrow with the magnifying glass in it at the very top-left? Or the Monobook skin? I just put "thunder" in the former, clicked the arrow, and boom (ha ha), search results. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 21:23, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::But "Thunder" isn't the name of an article. If it were, it would just give you the article without any other search results, even if you clicked on the magnifying-glass arrow. I can't tell if that's what the anthropomorphic IP address above was asking, but I do know I dislike the reduced functionality of Monaco's search box. As far as I can tell, typing a word and hitting Enter is the same as clicking the arrow. You CAN still search for all occurrences of a word by going to the "Search" link underneath the sidebar. But that's annoying for the need to go to a whole 'nother page. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 04:46, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Nevermind,i figured it out now. Just type "Search:" and then the keywoard before pressing enter. for example,to search for Optimus Prime without annoyingly being redirected,type Search:Optimus Prime .[[Special:Contributions/86.87.28.191|86.87.28.191]] 18:33, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
==Disambig pages==

I've seen three formats. The general, more common one like the Screamer one, the Prime style one and the BB one. Shouldn't we just stick with the one?[[User:GWolfv2]] 21.34 May 23rd
:The Prime page has to be like it is because there are so many things with "Prime" in their name that they need to be split. And why would we have a disambuig page for [[BB]]? If you're talking about Bumblebee, I don't think that page should be like that. Pictures do not help when the differences between one character's different bodies is about the same as the difference between his body and one belonging to another guy with the same name. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 22:00, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

==Prime Image==
Should an image Animated Prime be added to the front page? maybe replace Movie Prime in the picture if it needs to be a particular size? i think it should be updated to reflect the most modern incarnation of the character [[Special:Contributions/78.32.44.57|78.32.44.57]] 16:34, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
:Problem is, the front page's image is all from Takara's World Of Transformers page. We tried to add AniPrime in there but he didn't fit one bit, so until something better comes along, I do believe this image is going to stay as is. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 16:47, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

==Universe 2008==
I think you should ad a Universe 2008 link in the "by Series" section.
[[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:46, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:Never mind, I got it. I didn't know I could edit the main page.[[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 17:07, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

== The Irony ==

:In a wiki about transformers their alt modes aren't even mentioned ANYWHERE! I find this odd... {{SUBST::User:Crystal lucario/Sig}} 21:06, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::There's two articles on popular vehicle and animal modes, transformation article etc. You can't list alt with every character when some don't stick with the one [[User:GWolfv2]] 22.11 June 4th
:::You can find the altmodes for characters, usually, on the Toys section of their articles. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:57, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::::Ok, thanks. {{SUBST::User:Crystal lucario/Sig}} 11:19, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::psst- subst has to be lowercase. Also- too many colons. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 11:24, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Just as an example, G1 Optimus is often a semi-cab, but he's also officially transformed into...
* Cybertronic Mobile artillery (Marvel comics, pre-Earth)
* Sportscar (G2)
* Organic bat (super-early BW)
* Cybertronic truck-thing (War Within)
* HISS tank (Devil's Due G.I. Joe)
* Cybertronic pickup (e-hobby Orion Pax toy)
* Some kind of prehistoric animal (Hearts of Steel)
Plus, there was a canceled dump truck Optimus in G2, and plans to make him into a train for Hearts of Steel as well. I don't remember what he turned into for DW's Joe crossover. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 14:52, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
:Psst- I come from another wikia so it thought I had a sig. And to M Sipher thank you. I still think that should be somewhere in the artical. Maybe under Forms... {{SUBST::User:Crystal lucario/Sig}} 23:08, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Y'know, it just recently occurred to me that when we scan characters' profile art, we should probably include more than their robot mode. For instance, it seemed like [[:Image:Primal_FPUnivBio.jpg|this pic]] was served by including the gorilla mode because it emphasized the fact that it wasn't his original beast form. Then I uploaded [[:Image:SoundwaveCyb_FPbio.jpg|this image]] and included the jet because it was a particularly well-drawn alt mode. And now that I've done that... I'm going to make a point of including alt-modes whenever I can. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 02:39, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
:To save on space (tall images are the BANE of the wiki), I placed the smaller images (such as the alt mode) over part of the large images in a picture, such as [[:Image:G1Bomb-Burst_MTMTE1.jpg|what I did for Bomb Burst]]. Of course, I also mostly did it so the uploaded pics would look similar to the original Pretender boxart arrangement (shell behind, robot in the middle, vehicle in the foreground).
:Little Iron's Soundwave looks GREAT, btw. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

== 'Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen' countdown ==
There's 381 days (as of June 9th, 2008) until 'TF2:ROTF' comes out and already there's a countdown box? I know it's too late to remove it, but don't you think it's a ''little'' too soon to put one up? It's like this one 'Garfield' comic strip that was printed on December 26th with Garfield shutting off his alarm clock and declaring "365 days until Christmas!". Well, atleast the box isn't counting down the hours, minutes, and seconds. -[[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 12:47, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
:I started counting down the days in my head as soon as I learned the release date. I think it's all in good fun, no reason to remove it. [[User:(Undecided)|(Undecided)]] 01:13, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

== Since no one said anything... ==

The last discussion of a 'goals' list for the month... somewhere... petered out, so I just threw some on the front page. (Mostly nonexistant wanted articles.) They have a 'star' rating to show how complete they are which you can easily edit. Hopefully we can get these to 5 stars by the end of June! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
:Stubbed two of them already, hopefully with enough info that people can pick up easily.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 04:09, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

:As I said above -
:About the list of "ways to help"... thing is, those up-front lists should be geared toward attracting new editors -- new editors who by definition aren't going to know all the million little persnickety formatting things you have to know to set up a new page. Stuff like "fill in a stub" or "add storylinks" is a lot less intimidating, and a lot easier to slide into, than "here, make this page from scratch." I think an expanded list, akin to what's on my sample sandbox, should be near the top of the page, rather than a bunch of red links. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 22:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
::I would be for that. I wanted a lost of articles that needed to be brought to completion that were already clocked in. I just didn't know which to pick! Sub some out!
::I just-- I like the list because it gives a visible sense of progress (at the end of the month) on articles that no one would be inclined to work on on their own. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:59, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

==Should we have info boxes==
{{Transformers character|
name =Blitzwing
|image =blitzwing-animated.jpg
|caption =
|affiliation =Decepticon
|subgroup =Voyagers [[Triple Changer]]
|function =Berserker
|partner =
|motto =''"Whoooo, I'm freaking out!"'' <ref>[http://www.hasbro.com/transformers/animated/default.cfm?page=Bio&character=blitzwing Character bios for Transformers Animated characters]</ref>
|alternatemodes = Dual-Barreled Assault Tank/Fighter Jet
|series =[[Transformers: Animated]]
|engvoice = [[Bumper Robinson]]
|japanvoice =
}}

It is to include some detail like this for example

:It was decided against long ago for many logistical nightmare reasons, the primary ones being that so many characters have very different bodies, affiliations, functions, mottos, jump continuities... --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
:It would be a nightmare. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:32, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmmmmm, I see. [[Special:Contributions/82.17.140.55|82.17.140.55]] 09:26, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
:What is Optimsu Prime (G1)'s altmode? He's has close to 50. Even if 50% of them are trucks... the other 25 aren't. Character abilities, weapons and allegiance have shifted over ltierally millions of years, as have their bodies, catchphrases, names- and even genders.
:We've taken a serious look at character boxes at least 3 times, and every proposal, no matter comprehensive, it's easy to find a character for which the box simply... ''breaks'', being unable to accommodate the diversity of experience the character has had.
:Character boxes are a good idea, they provide a quick thumbnail overview of a character's history... but we don't want thumbnail overviews, we want in-depth infromation. If you wanted a thumbnail overview, go to Wikipedia, which deletes and trims articles containing 'unnecessarily in-depth information.' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 09:43, 14 June 2008 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"> From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</div>

Talk:Main Page

2009-03-16T01:26:12Z

69.23.135.79: /* What happened? */

THE FUNNY STAYS.
-The Management

__TOC__

Please use this talk page for discussion about the [[Main Page]].

To discuss site-wide policies, please visit [[Transformers Wiki Talk:Community Portal|the Community Portal talk page]].

==Archives==
*[[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1|Archive1]]
*[[Talk:Main_Page/Archive2|Archive2]]
*[[Talk:Main_Page/Archive3|Archive3]]

==What happen?==

So...what on Earth has happened to the TFWiki? Also, for some reason the old Wikia seems to have gained all of the articles that are now missing from here. (Such as the Season 3 animated stuff)
:Seems to me that we've reverted to a June 2008 version of the database which could be really bad news. Some of my articles [[Macabre]] for example are at the old site but not here, which would make sense since I wrote it in September 2008 before we moved here. I don't even have a login here anymore - Emvee :( [[Special:Contributions/77.102.92.218|77.102.92.218]] 19:31, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::Looks like our brain-damaged friend is back again.
:::There's some more info on the [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=51208&view=findpost&p=1155749 wiki thread in the Allspark forums]. Looks like an upgrade handled very very sloppily. I'm hoping once they restore the old database it'll overwrite the changes made in the interim, seeing as how our favorite Idiot Vandal With No Life is on a rampage. (Sigh.) Wiping out his stupid crap in one go would be priceless. (This is Jeysie, BTW.) --[[Special:Contributions/72.79.219.120|72.79.219.120]] 19:41, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::Thank Primus. I was worried someone had hacked in and deleted the database. The thought of 6 months work lost filled me with dread. --abates 19:46, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::Ditto. Dread all round here too. Good to know it's in hand. --Emvee [[Special:Contributions/77.102.92.218|77.102.92.218]] 19:48, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::You know... assuming it does get overwritten so we don't have to worry about undoing it, watching our pet vandal complain about how the wiki malfunctioning prevents him from vandalizing properly is one of the most morbidly hilarious things I've seen in a while. -Jeysie --[[Special:Contributions/72.79.219.120|72.79.219.120]] 20:07, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::::Don't I know it, I was just having a laugh at that with the other half :) --Emvee [[Special:Contributions/77.102.92.218|77.102.92.218]] 20:16, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::You know, there are some benefits about this. On the one hand, people don't have to worry about being spoiled about TransWarped. On the other, we get to see Assaulthead self-destruct in rage as he can't vandalize the wiki. However, there is one concern: What if they can't retrieve the lost information? -- (SFH) [[Special:Contributions/67.164.210.225|67.164.210.225]] 20:11, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::I'm assuming that Bookworm made a database backup before he started work. Should be fairly simple to upload it again. Which means this conversation never happened. --Emvee [[Special:Contributions/77.102.92.218|77.102.92.218]] 20:16, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::I've decided I don't want to think about what happens if he didn't. (Realistically about all we could do is a crapload of trawling through Google's cache, but even then we'd pretty much be seriously hosed.) --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.219.120|72.79.219.120]] 20:18, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::I didn't spot this thread until right after emailing Suki and Walky (one knows the code well, the other is right by the servers) about the situation (though I figure they already know), as I thought it might have been Assaulthead showing a heretofore hidden hacking genius. (Hey, if Bulkhead can be a space bridge genius...) I hope to heck we don't lose all those months of work. Someone really needs to work on that update process... --Apcog [[Special:Contributions/99.158.0.251|99.158.0.251]] 20:21, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::It would be a real pain if all that work was lost. I hope it's not. How long would it take to get everything back up again? --Tribor

Guys, stop worrying and check out the community portal talk page. That's been restored and its last post was only a couple of days ago. Unless that's the ''only'' page on the enitire wiki that was backed-up, the most that could maybe have been lost is a couple of days' worth. (Okay, as soon as I wrote this, that page got fucked up, too.) The main thing to think about is first-time visitors seeing the site like this. - Magnus Maximus
:I just find it sad that the only person who can log in (with multiple usernames, it seems) is the guy with the (so imaginative) gift for profanity. --Emvee [[Special:Contributions/77.102.92.218|77.102.92.218]] 20:49, 15 March 2009 (EDT)

What worries me, is... why is the database even that far back? Even if we somehow lost everything, we should at least be stuck in how the wiki looked when we first arrived, but we've been rolled almost three months before that. (The last edits in the histories all seem to be mid-June 2008, but didn't we move here in mid-September 2008?) --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.219.120|72.79.219.120]] 21:02, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
: Yeah, but IIRC we moved in with an older backup and ended up losing a little bit of stuff? -hx [[Special:Contributions/24.30.97.198|24.30.97.198]] 21:14, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::Only a few weeks at most, though, IIRC, not three months' worth. (Not that it really matters if we did lose everything, it just makes me even more worried that this backup/upgrade wasn't done right.) --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.219.120|72.79.219.120]] 21:24, 15 March 2009 (EDT)

:::I just don't uderstand why there wasn't a working failsafe in case something like this happened. I mean come on have you ever heard of an SD card or floppy disk? --E-Bot
Somebody set up us the bomb. --Interrobang [[Special:Contributions/69.23.135.79|69.23.135.79]]

== Featured article ==

We have had the same thing there for like 50 years{{unsigned|Human in Disguise|02:22, 7 April 2008}}
:Not really. Jhiaxus was only made a Featured Article on March 2, 2008.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 06:05, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::With 6k articles, maybe we could switch the featured article every month?[[User:Spriteless|Spriteless]] 05:45, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
:::We try to when we can, but usually that involves a big push to improve the given article to featured article standards.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 06:30, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
:::: If someone was just going through the Wikia wikis they might assume that this wiki is a bit quiet. What about just chosing some of the bigger articles every now and again? The larger ones tend to the most highly polished, researched and moderated articles. [[User:Drmick|Drmick]] 19:20, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::Some of the big articles need work because alot of the stuff in them was written in 2006 before we established standards. For instance, G1 Ratchet's article was featured last year I believe, but it was really unevenly written in terms of quality. I mean, for some reason half of the article eschewed storylinks in favour of references. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 20:26, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:We probably should set up some ground rules on what makes a featured article. Right now, it's pretty much what ever Walky wants. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 20:34, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Thunderwing, Nice. --[[User:Human in Disguise|Human in disguise]]

Out of curiosity, how often does it change, or is it just on a whim? [[User:Jeep!|Jeep!]] 14:30, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

== front tf page ==

i hate april fool pranks on my fave tf front page -dr
:What? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 23:11, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

== Funny ==
I think we should remove the funny nes on the page, If it stays, It will sound like a child has being messing up this place and Other people will think it doesn't make sense. [[User:Black rhino ranger|Black rhino ranger]] 09:01, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:You're going to find yourself in the minority regarding this opinion.--[[User:Suzyprime|Suzyprime]] 13:02, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

:Actually, Ranger, people are more likely to think this wiki "doesn't make sense" if it's edited by people who can't spell, conjugate, or use capital letters correctly. [[User:JW|JW]] 18:37, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Who made this again. [[User:Black rhino ranger|Black rhino ranger]] 19:55, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:If that's a question, I don't understand it. [[User:JW|JW]] 20:33, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

But we should Make the images Info not funny, Transformers is ment to be serious, not funny. [[Special:Contributions/82.17.140.55|82.17.140.55]] 15:47, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
:Bullshit. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 17:46, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
::Transformers be [[Bee in the City|'''''serious business''''']] yo. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 18:00, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
:Sir, your erudite argument has at last shown me the light. I have been in error all this time, and you have turned the glare of knowledge against the darkness of my ignorance. Verily, we must all change our ways, and treat the stories about outer space robots that turn into cars as Serious Business. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 18:20, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

But it is unencyclopediac. It looks like a two year old vandalism. [[Special:Contributions/82.17.140.55|82.17.140.55]] 11:33, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

:Thanks for sharing your viewpoint, but, you are very much in the minority. If you object that strongly, start your own Transformers wiki and make it boring. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 21:41, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

:: Or just read the transformers entries on wikipedia. I'm also guessing most people don't like it when you call our writing "like a two year old vandalism". [[User:(Undecided)|(Undecided)]] 03:10, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Face it! Not Everyone likes funny wikis. [[Special:Contributions/82.17.140.55|82.17.140.55]] 15:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
:Since we're one of the largest, highest-traffic wikis on Wikia, I don't think the people who object to "the funny" are a significant enough constituency to force us to change.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:27, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
:Not everyone likes peanut butter! Therefore they should stop making peanut butter. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:31, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

==Search==
So, uh, what happened to the ability to type something into the text box, click "search," and not have it take me directly to a page, but give me a list of pages the term appears in instead? There is no search button on the front page! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:37, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:For as long as I've used the wiki, the Search function has only done that for me if what I've typed didn't match the title of any article exactly. As for the front page, I still see the Search box. I don't know if it makes a difference, but I'm using the Monaco skin.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 14:12, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::That doesn't match my experiences. I could type in "Megatron," click Search, and then it'd give me a list of pages that mention "Megatron" in the body of the text. It was very useful. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:54, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::On the topic of the Monaco skin, can we get some admin feedback on the Monaco skin discussion, please? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:32, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::To be sure, yes, that would be useful. As it is, now you'd have to type something like "Megatron's" or "Megatron" and another word to get similar results. And yeah, I've seen notices for the admins from [[User:Toughpigs|Toughpigs]] asking for feedback and wondered when that was going to be resolved.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 15:13, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:Regarding the search box - typing something into the box and hitting "enter," or clicking "go," is the option that takes you directly to the page with the title you've typed. Typing something into the box and actually clicking the button marked "search" is the option that brings up a list of stuff containing the term, and that's the button we appear to have lost here (although on my screen at least, it's coming and going intermittently, but that's probably a browser cache thing). I've not got the Monaco skin on, but regarding that, I rather like it, and I'd like to see it implimented. There's something very "bare bones" about our set up here, and of course, I know that we kinda have that as a show of "not taking everything too seriously," but I'd personally like to see the Monaco skin in use. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 15:30, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::The same function is in the "Advanced Search" link. Am I the only one who sees it or something? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 18:17, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Cripes, I can't insert a comment before three more jump in before me. No, there's definitely no Search button visible in the Monaco skin as I'm using it, just an arrow with a magnifying glass icon in it (the equivalent of the "Go" button, obviously). I see the "Advanced search" link too, but it doesn't offer quite the same function, in that it doesn't default to the "all text occurrences" option. Rather, you have to choose settings to get that. Not a terrible extra step, but still...--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 18:32, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I see the advanced search link. I also ''REALLY LIKE'' the new 'random page image link' above the search box. Who do I have to thank for that? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 18:28, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I put it in, but it was Siph's idea. Breaking the "Search" button under non-Monaco themes was also my doing, I'm afraid; I was a little zealous with putting in a more useful search and it didn't quite work. It should be back in a day or two. I somehow totally missed any discussion on Monaco coming up; I'll get to commenting on that. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 19:50, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Primarily Wookieepedia for the idea, Blitz for the implementation, and I suppose me for harraunging her about it. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:48, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::A random page on search function is really a good idea because that would make us know about more characters. By the way, I think there still need a normal ''search button'' in the original place . :D --[[User:TX55|TX55]] 01:37, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Then I thank you guys for it. '''IF''' we switch to Monaco, is there any way to do a similar function with that skin? I think the function is very helpful for newcomers to the wiki (and Transformers in general) for they don't have to look through lists of names or randomly search for things. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:17, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::::I don't think it'd be too hard. If we ''do'' switch to Monaco, there'd need to be some changes done to the search box anyway, since under that, there's no "search" button. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 05:56, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
: Is there a way to make the search image load earlier? Right now it's the very last thing to load; even the flash ads come up earlier. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 02:24, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
:: The short answer is no, unfortunately. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 05:56, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Why does the bar show pictures of random characters, but when you go to their pages they have no visual representation? [[User:90.198.228.42|90.198.228.42]] 20:28, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
:Because... I don't know really. I don't know why the powers-at-be chose to create these little search pictures for characters that have no pictures. One would think if they had a reasonably sized image to create the search button picture, they could have uploaded the full size image for the page itself. And/or create searchbox pic-links for characters that DO have decent visual representation AND largely completed articles. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 22:39, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
==Familial relationships==

Should we put something up, relating to the idea of siblings or such[[User:GWolfv2]]
:See [[Relatives]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:07, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

== Redesigning the front page ==

Now that the Monaco skin is the default, and Toughpigs is around to help us out, I suggest we figure out a way to redesign the front page so it isn't just a columns of text. Is there any reasonable way for us to have the franchises in the By Series (or anywhere else, really) represented by the franchise logos? The logos can be as recognisable as the names alone, and given we're getting more and more visitors every day, it would be helpful to make the place more visually pleasing and more user-friendly. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 20:30, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
:I think that's still a [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive2#Logos_for_.27By_series.27_column|bad idea]]. The logos were never designed to look good together, and some (like the 2007 movie) are anti-informative. If you can present a design that somehow makes it work, please do. But I don't see how the new skin changes the basic problems. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 20:56, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
::I tend to think the Main Page and its columns of text are just fine as is. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 21:04, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
::Also, wouldn't it perhaps be best to wait a few days for everyone to get home from BotCon before starting a discussion on more major changes like this? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 21:08, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Didn't stop Toughpigs redesigning the whole Wiki... - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:18, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Toughpigs has been touting the switch to Monaco for quite some time, and he only finally got the nod from an admin just before BotCon.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 23:22, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
Just wanted to say I love the new look.

===Ad bar issues with Monaco?===
I don't know if it's just me, but trying to load the Wiki in Firefox results in it loading everything up to the adserver stuff, and then Firefox proceeds to hang the fuck up, completely use up all available memory, and force me to kill it through Task Manager. It's kind of a pain in the ass.(I'm using explorer right now) [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 00:22, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
:I've had no troubles with Firefox 2, nor Firefox 3 beta 5.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 00:37, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

== Improvement Drive ==
I have no idea how long the "Improvement Drive" column has been there, but it's a great idea, content-wise. However, IMO the links it contains should really be a permanent part of the Help/Start Here column. It's the kind of thing I was talking about [http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Transformers_Wiki_talk:Community_Portal#.22First_go_here.21__Next_go_here..22 a while ago]. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 22:56, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
:Giving this a bump. Input, anyone? Anyone? If nobody protests, I'd like to merge the contents of the "Improvement drive" section with the "Start here" section. Perhaps a blurb on a more specialized improvement drive -- say, our long-dormant BW improvement drive -- could take the place of the current one. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 20:20, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
::Giving this one last bump. If nobody objects, I'm making the changes. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 00:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:One of the reasons the Improvement Drive was disbanded on Wookieepedia was because we instead formed projects such as "Tales of the Jedi project" "The New Essential Chronology project". This allowed us to focus on groups of articles which were in need of updating instead of simply one article. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 00:42, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:::I fully support a "Project" initiative. (Cough cough prose stories cough.) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:07, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::::I can definitely live with that - it looks like one of the new users is actually working on RiD stuff, which is an area that I've felt could use more coverage - it's not my area of knowledge, tho. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 01:43, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::Yeah. I know a lot about the fiction in GENERAL, but when it comes to what happened in what specific episodes and issues? Not so much. Toys are more my forte... --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:49, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::It doesn't help that most of us would need to import the DVDs to write about the fiction. I've been thinking of doing that, but I've already bought a couple of hundred dollars worth of TF DVDs I don't really need soley for writing and screen capping articles for the wiki, which upon reflection is a little insane. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:03, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Please see [[User:Repowers/Sandbox]] for a test page. Feel free to tweak and/or comment. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 04:52, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
:I weaked the disclaimer, added a countdown to TF2 clock (the page de-caches a couple times a day, so it should remain accurate without having to re-edit, I did a sandbox text to verify) and I got rid of the clickable Animated logo, sicne that template still isn't working right and I haven't figured out how to make it work right.
:Re:Improvement Drive... How about we have a 'goals' list for the month? Like, 20 or 30 articles we want to get up to snuff, chosen for balance. A lot of piddling pages, a few episodes or comics no one's gonna get around to on their own, and one or two major character pages. We can track 'em at the end of the month and see how successful we were. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:47, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
::Giving this a bump.
::About the list of "ways to help"... thing is, those up-front lists should be geared toward attracting new editors -- new editors who by definition aren't going to know all the million little persnickety formatting things you have to know to set up a new page. Stuff like "fill in a stub" or "add storylinks" is a lot less intimidating, and a lot easier to slide into, than "here, make this page from scratch." I think an expanded list, akin to what's on my sample sandbox, should be near the top of the page, rather than a bunch of red links. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 22:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

== Main "Transformers Animated" image ==

It really ought to be clickable. Unfortunately, [[:Template:Click]] currently doesn't actually let you center an image-- it probably needs to be rewritten at some point. Unless someone else volunteers, this is mostly just a reminder to myself. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 18:53, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
:Someone just did that and now the link messes up the main page by covering the links to "Comics", "Generation 1", "(toyline/cartoon/comic)", "Generation 2", and "Help contents". Ugh, it was better off the way it was before. Besides, there was a link to the Animated franchise below the giant logo. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 23:27, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
::What poor excuse for a browser are you using? The TFA logo is ''above'' all that stuff. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 23:35, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
:::The image is, but the link is stretching down over the ones below it. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 23:59, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
::::I'm using Firefox, and the link ends WAY before that. I have no troubles whatsoever. - [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 00:20, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
::::Sabrblade, to repeat- "What browser are you using?" -[[Special:Contributions/75.168.112.43|75.168.112.43]] 01:35, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::Internet Explorer 7 is my browser on this particular computer (I use at least three different ones). --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 20:31, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::Well ''there's'' your problem. IE doesn't follow correct HTML protocol, and each version has a different way of not following it. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 21:19, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Just realized I'm having the same problem, using Firefox. The link to [[Transformers Animated (franchise)]] from the image is like, bleeding down or something, covering up some of the links below it. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 18:43, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::::Well, is there any other browser besides Internet Explorer and Firefox that doesn't have the problem? --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 01:31, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::I just went and had a look at [[:Template:Click]] and tried a few things, but it's beyond me. Can we not just do it in html? It would be a hell of a lot simpler...[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 12:51, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::Well, with the "no TF:A Dubai spoilers" text written by Chris McFeely, the image no longer covers the G1 and G2 links. It still bleeds down, but only over the link-free text. So until that text gets erased, the image bleeding isn't much of a problem (but it will be again once that text is gone).[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 01:02, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::Still covers them for me, and I'm using the latest Firefox. I'm going to edit this until someone can come up with a better solution - removing the Dubai text will just make it bleed lower down the page, surely... [[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 16:37, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::::If any one isn't getting the problem [http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h278/Undecided_tmn/Mainpage_error.jpg here is what it looks like] to me. It's the blue highlighted box. [http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h278/Undecided_tmn/Mainpage_error_IE-1.jpg Here is what it looks like in Internet Explorer]. Screen resolution is 1280x1024. [[User:(Undecided)|(Undecided)]] 22:15, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:I replaced it with an imagemap so it links directly to [[Transformers Animated (franchise)]]. Given that the same image is at the top of that page, I don't think we need the main page to link to the Image page if the only way of doing so messes up the rest of the page. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 21:50, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
::Imagemap is working on wikia now? Yay! IIRC it wasn't 18 months ago when you originally took a stab at <nowiki>{{click}}</nowiki> -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:10, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Just to check, can imagemap be set to pave part of the image link to the Image page, or is Click the only thing that can do that. (You'd think a template specificly created for use on the Wikia wiki wouldn't have these issues) --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 22:14, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
::::Wikipedia has a template like this that puts a little blue 'i' in the corner of an image- you click on that to get info about it. In this case it's moot-- a single click takes you to the TFA page that lets you access the image info. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:18, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

=="TF dates"?==
Something else Wookiepedia does on its frontpage we... might want to look at stealing... Putting up a "__/__/__: _____ was released" history box. I dunno. It would only be for like comic books, DVDs, TV episodes, street-release-date toys, etc. Though I dunno if TF really has enough... stuff to do that with. I dunno. Idle thought. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:47, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
:On paper, that's a cool idea. In execution, yeah, I don't think there's quite enough stuff to do it with. We know original episode air dates, and roughly know the street dates of the various comic issues, but we generally have no idea when various and sundry toys hit shelves before, what, '94? If we had enough stuff that there was something to put up at least twice a week (as a "This Week in TF History" thing) I'd say go for it. I guess we could stretch it and add birth dates of TF professionals and that sort of thing, but even then, we're a little sparse, I'd imagine. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 10:42, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

==Front page weirdness==
When clicking on the link for the Generation 1 (comic) or Generation 2 (comic) on the front page, I get taken to Animated (franchise)...but looking at the code the links appear to be correct, else I'd edit them. I've tried refreshing several times but the link is still wrong...anyone else seeing this? [[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 12:11, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] aha, just seen the discussion above about the link "bleeding down"...that would explain it [[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 12:15, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

==Search==
The current search bar only has a "Go" button,we can't look for articles by using keywords now. How are we supposed to look for things we don't know the name of now?[[Special:Contributions/86.87.28.191|86.87.28.191]] 20:54, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:Isn't there a "Search" button right next to the "Go" button? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 20:57, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::I don't think there is a search button on the new skin but if you log in and set the wiki back to monobook in your preferences then you'll have a search button [[User:Donutter|Donut]] 21:02, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
: Are we talking Monaco skin, the one with the little arrow with the magnifying glass in it at the very top-left? Or the Monobook skin? I just put "thunder" in the former, clicked the arrow, and boom (ha ha), search results. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 21:23, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::But "Thunder" isn't the name of an article. If it were, it would just give you the article without any other search results, even if you clicked on the magnifying-glass arrow. I can't tell if that's what the anthropomorphic IP address above was asking, but I do know I dislike the reduced functionality of Monaco's search box. As far as I can tell, typing a word and hitting Enter is the same as clicking the arrow. You CAN still search for all occurrences of a word by going to the "Search" link underneath the sidebar. But that's annoying for the need to go to a whole 'nother page. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 04:46, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Nevermind,i figured it out now. Just type "Search:" and then the keywoard before pressing enter. for example,to search for Optimus Prime without annoyingly being redirected,type Search:Optimus Prime .[[Special:Contributions/86.87.28.191|86.87.28.191]] 18:33, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
==Disambig pages==

I've seen three formats. The general, more common one like the Screamer one, the Prime style one and the BB one. Shouldn't we just stick with the one?[[User:GWolfv2]] 21.34 May 23rd
:The Prime page has to be like it is because there are so many things with "Prime" in their name that they need to be split. And why would we have a disambuig page for [[BB]]? If you're talking about Bumblebee, I don't think that page should be like that. Pictures do not help when the differences between one character's different bodies is about the same as the difference between his body and one belonging to another guy with the same name. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 22:00, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

==Prime Image==
Should an image Animated Prime be added to the front page? maybe replace Movie Prime in the picture if it needs to be a particular size? i think it should be updated to reflect the most modern incarnation of the character [[Special:Contributions/78.32.44.57|78.32.44.57]] 16:34, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
:Problem is, the front page's image is all from Takara's World Of Transformers page. We tried to add AniPrime in there but he didn't fit one bit, so until something better comes along, I do believe this image is going to stay as is. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 16:47, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

==Universe 2008==
I think you should ad a Universe 2008 link in the "by Series" section.
[[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:46, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:Never mind, I got it. I didn't know I could edit the main page.[[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 17:07, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

== The Irony ==

:In a wiki about transformers their alt modes aren't even mentioned ANYWHERE! I find this odd... {{SUBST::User:Crystal lucario/Sig}} 21:06, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::There's two articles on popular vehicle and animal modes, transformation article etc. You can't list alt with every character when some don't stick with the one [[User:GWolfv2]] 22.11 June 4th
:::You can find the altmodes for characters, usually, on the Toys section of their articles. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:57, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::::Ok, thanks. {{SUBST::User:Crystal lucario/Sig}} 11:19, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::psst- subst has to be lowercase. Also- too many colons. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 11:24, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Just as an example, G1 Optimus is often a semi-cab, but he's also officially transformed into...
* Cybertronic Mobile artillery (Marvel comics, pre-Earth)
* Sportscar (G2)
* Organic bat (super-early BW)
* Cybertronic truck-thing (War Within)
* HISS tank (Devil's Due G.I. Joe)
* Cybertronic pickup (e-hobby Orion Pax toy)
* Some kind of prehistoric animal (Hearts of Steel)
Plus, there was a canceled dump truck Optimus in G2, and plans to make him into a train for Hearts of Steel as well. I don't remember what he turned into for DW's Joe crossover. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 14:52, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
:Psst- I come from another wikia so it thought I had a sig. And to M Sipher thank you. I still think that should be somewhere in the artical. Maybe under Forms... {{SUBST::User:Crystal lucario/Sig}} 23:08, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Y'know, it just recently occurred to me that when we scan characters' profile art, we should probably include more than their robot mode. For instance, it seemed like [[:Image:Primal_FPUnivBio.jpg|this pic]] was served by including the gorilla mode because it emphasized the fact that it wasn't his original beast form. Then I uploaded [[:Image:SoundwaveCyb_FPbio.jpg|this image]] and included the jet because it was a particularly well-drawn alt mode. And now that I've done that... I'm going to make a point of including alt-modes whenever I can. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 02:39, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
:To save on space (tall images are the BANE of the wiki), I placed the smaller images (such as the alt mode) over part of the large images in a picture, such as [[:Image:G1Bomb-Burst_MTMTE1.jpg|what I did for Bomb Burst]]. Of course, I also mostly did it so the uploaded pics would look similar to the original Pretender boxart arrangement (shell behind, robot in the middle, vehicle in the foreground).
:Little Iron's Soundwave looks GREAT, btw. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

== 'Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen' countdown ==
There's 381 days (as of June 9th, 2008) until 'TF2:ROTF' comes out and already there's a countdown box? I know it's too late to remove it, but don't you think it's a ''little'' too soon to put one up? It's like this one 'Garfield' comic strip that was printed on December 26th with Garfield shutting off his alarm clock and declaring "365 days until Christmas!". Well, atleast the box isn't counting down the hours, minutes, and seconds. -[[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 12:47, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
:I started counting down the days in my head as soon as I learned the release date. I think it's all in good fun, no reason to remove it. [[User:(Undecided)|(Undecided)]] 01:13, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

== Since no one said anything... ==

The last discussion of a 'goals' list for the month... somewhere... petered out, so I just threw some on the front page. (Mostly nonexistant wanted articles.) They have a 'star' rating to show how complete they are which you can easily edit. Hopefully we can get these to 5 stars by the end of June! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
:Stubbed two of them already, hopefully with enough info that people can pick up easily.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 04:09, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

:As I said above -
:About the list of "ways to help"... thing is, those up-front lists should be geared toward attracting new editors -- new editors who by definition aren't going to know all the million little persnickety formatting things you have to know to set up a new page. Stuff like "fill in a stub" or "add storylinks" is a lot less intimidating, and a lot easier to slide into, than "here, make this page from scratch." I think an expanded list, akin to what's on my sample sandbox, should be near the top of the page, rather than a bunch of red links. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 22:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
::I would be for that. I wanted a lost of articles that needed to be brought to completion that were already clocked in. I just didn't know which to pick! Sub some out!
::I just-- I like the list because it gives a visible sense of progress (at the end of the month) on articles that no one would be inclined to work on on their own. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:59, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

==Should we have info boxes==
{{Transformers character|
name =Blitzwing
|image =blitzwing-animated.jpg
|caption =
|affiliation =Decepticon
|subgroup =Voyagers [[Triple Changer]]
|function =Berserker
|partner =
|motto =''"Whoooo, I'm freaking out!"'' <ref>[http://www.hasbro.com/transformers/animated/default.cfm?page=Bio&character=blitzwing Character bios for Transformers Animated characters]</ref>
|alternatemodes = Dual-Barreled Assault Tank/Fighter Jet
|series =[[Transformers: Animated]]
|engvoice = [[Bumper Robinson]]
|japanvoice =
}}

It is to include some detail like this for example

:It was decided against long ago for many logistical nightmare reasons, the primary ones being that so many characters have very different bodies, affiliations, functions, mottos, jump continuities... --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
:It would be a nightmare. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:32, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmmmmm, I see. [[Special:Contributions/82.17.140.55|82.17.140.55]] 09:26, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
:What is Optimsu Prime (G1)'s altmode? He's has close to 50. Even if 50% of them are trucks... the other 25 aren't. Character abilities, weapons and allegiance have shifted over ltierally millions of years, as have their bodies, catchphrases, names- and even genders.
:We've taken a serious look at character boxes at least 3 times, and every proposal, no matter comprehensive, it's easy to find a character for which the box simply... ''breaks'', being unable to accommodate the diversity of experience the character has had.
:Character boxes are a good idea, they provide a quick thumbnail overview of a character's history... but we don't want thumbnail overviews, we want in-depth infromation. If you wanted a thumbnail overview, go to Wikipedia, which deletes and trims articles containing 'unnecessarily in-depth information.' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 09:43, 14 June 2008 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"> From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</div>