Talk:FIRRIB

2009-09-12T01:55:25Z

69.231.197.115: /* IDW Comics */ *cough*

So, what's the official position, right now?--[[User:GUIGUI|GUIGUI]] 18:43, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
: There is none. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 18:59, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
:: Clever of them. But were Frenzy and Rumble featured in Dreamwave or IDW? And if yes, in wich colors? --[[User:GUIGUI|GUIGUI]] 19:06, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
::: Dreamwave was inconsistent. IIRC, they were cartoon colors in the stories and toy/comic colors in the MTMTE profile books. They have not appeared yet in IDW. (Alternators Rumble is red, however.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:11, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
:::: Actually, I believe that the few times that they appeared in Dreamwave's comics, they were always together and so it was impossible to tell which was which. - [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 23:56, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
::::: If we assume that the use of piledrivers indicates that it was Rumble, then the little fella was blue in the first DW G1 miniseries, but after that, Dark T's right, they were always together and were never singled out, so it's impossible to tell who's who based on colour. Then, they were done in toy colours for MTMTE. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 00:17, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
:::::: The "Who's who" in the back of the War and Peace TPB identifies them as their toy colors. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:12, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

This article should be moved to FIBRIR, with RIBFIR as a redirect. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:47, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

== Change To Chart ==

A whole new approach to the chart might better convey the information. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Tufte Tufte] says that if you're trying convey info about color, and you can print in color, you'd be a fool not to use it. Maybe like so?

<table>
<tr><th></th><th>Frenzy</th><th>Rumble</th></tr>

<tr>
<th>US cartoon</th>
<td style="color:Black;background-color:Red;">Red</td>
<td style="color:White;background-color:Blue;">Blue</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<th>Japanese cartoon</th>
<td style="color:White;background-color:Blue;">Blue</td>
<td style="color:Black;background-color:Red;">Red</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<th>US toys</th>
<td style="color:White;background-color:Blue;">Blue</td>
<td style="color:Black;background-color:Red;">Red</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<th>Japanese toys</th>
<td style="color:White;background-color:Blue;">Blue</td>
<td style="color:Black;background-color:Red;">Red</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<th>Marvel Comics</th>
<td style="color:White;background-color:Blue;">Blue</td>
<td style="color:Black;background-color:Red;">Red</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<th>Dreamwave comics</th>
<td style="color:White;background-color:Blue;">Blue</td>
<td style="color:Black;background-color:Red;">Red</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<th>Devil's Due comics</th>
<td style="color:Black;background-color:Red;">Red</td>
<td style="color:White;background-color:Blue;">Blue</td>
</tr>

</table>

(We keep the words "red" and "blue" for people who are blind or just color blind, for those not using color monitors, or using text browsers, etc.) [[User:JW|JW]] 15:22, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

:Yes, this chart is much nicer and clearer than the one in the article now. I vote for switching it in immediately.

If we want to keep the FIBRIR, we could do something like this:

<table>

<tr>

<tr>
<th>G1 toys</th>
<td style="color:White;background-color:Blue;">FIB</td>
<td style="color:Black;background-color:Red;">RIR</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<th>Marvel Comics</th>
<td style="color:White;background-color:Blue;">FIB</td>
<td style="color:Black;background-color:Red;">RIR</td>
</tr>

<th>US cartoon</th>
<td style="color:Black;background-color:Red;">FIR</td>
<td style="color:White;background-color:Blue;">RIB</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<th>Japanese cartoon</th>
<td style="color:White;background-color:Blue;">FIB</td>
<td style="color:Black;background-color:Red;">RIR</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<th>Dreamwave comics</th>
<td style="color:White;background-color:Blue;">FIB</td>
<td style="color:Black;background-color:Red;">RIR</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<th>Devil's Due comics</th>
<td style="color:Black;background-color:Red;">FIR</td>
<td style="color:White;background-color:Blue;">RIB</td>
</tr>

</table>

I also removed the Japanese Toy row since the toys were the same in all markets and put the rows in order of release.--[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 17:47, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
:I'm not entirely certain we ''do'' want to keep FIB and RIR in the chart. I personally think "providing information" is a slightly higher priority than "being a supportive environment for Transformers fans." Actually using the words "Frenzy" and "Blue" provides the information most clearly. Using "FIB" and "RIR" where not necessary is being fannish for its own sake. (Note that I ''do'' think there is a place in this Wiki for fannishness for its own sake, most certainly, but I don't think it should be priority #1.) [[User:JW|JW]] 18:16, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I think JW's table is the best option. Use wikitable markup instead of HTML, though. Simpler to look at/edit. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 01:46, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

:Using Fib or RiR or whatever is MUCH WORSE. The point is clarity. Using JWs original words Red and Blue is much clearer and and simpler and hence much better.

::Since I'm seeing a lot of approval, and I figured out how to do a colored table in Wiki markup, I'll implement it now. (With FortMax's suggested modification of consolidating the "toys" entries, and doing 'em in release order.) [[User:JW|JW]] 02:44, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Good thing there was a warning, or I would have changed it to:

{| border=0 cellspacing=2 cellpadding=2
|
| '''Frenzy'''
| '''Rumble'''
|-
| '''Toys'''
| style="color:White;background-color:Blue;" | Blue
| style="color:Black;background-color:Red;" | Red
|-
| '''Marvel comics'''
| style="color:White;background-color:Blue;" | Blue
| style="color:Black;background-color:Red;" | Red
|-
| '''US cartoon'''
| style="color:Black;background-color:Red;" | Red
| style="color:White;background-color:Purple;" | Purple
|-
| '''Japanese cartoon'''
| style="color:White;background-color:Blue;" | Blue
| style="color:Black;background-color:Red;" | Red
|-
| '''Dreamwave comics'''
| style="color:White;background-color:Blue;" | Blue
| style="color:Black;background-color:Red;" | Red
|-
| '''Devil's Due comics'''
| style="color:Black;background-color:Red;" | Red
| style="color:White;background-color:Blue;" | Blue
|} -[[User:The Ultimate One|The Ultimate One]]

Not quite. See the new topic I made. [[User:RIBFIR Forever|The RIBFIR Dude]] 20:53, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

==New Chart Includes 1986 Movie==
I know most of you are against the purple, but I think we should make the chart look like this because it includes the 1986 movie where Rumble actually ''was'' blue:
{| border=0 cellspacing=2 cellpadding=2
|
| '''Frenzy'''
| '''Rumble'''
|-
| '''Toys'''
| style="color:White;background-color:Blue;" | Blue
| style="color:Black;background-color:Red;" | Red
|-
| '''Marvel comics'''
| style="color:White;background-color:Blue;" | Blue
| style="color:Black;background-color:Red;" | Red
|-
| '''US cartoon'''
| style="color:Black;background-color:Red;" | Red
| style="color:White;background-color:Purple;" | Purple
|-
| '''Japanese cartoon'''
| style="color:White;background-color:Blue;" | Blue
| style="color:Black;background-color:Red;" | Red
|-
| '''1986 Cartoon Movie'''
| style="color:Black;background-color:Red;" | Red
| style="color:White;background-color:Blue;" | Blue
|-
| '''Dreamwave comics'''
| style="color:White;background-color:Blue;" | Blue
| style="color:Black;background-color:Red;" | Red
|-
| '''Devil's Due comics'''
| style="color:Black;background-color:Red;" | Red
| style="color:White;background-color:Blue;" | Blue
|} -[[User:RIBFIR Forever|The RIBFIR Dude]] 20:53, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

:Personally, I prefer it the way it is. Not least because there's a scene in the movie where they're ''both'' red, and why invite ''more'' confusion? [[User:JW|JW]] 21:15, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, but that was just an animation glitch that was only for about two seconds. [[User:RIBFIR Forever|The RIBFIR Dude]] 21:33, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

:And if you watch, you can ''clearly'' see that Rumble is definetly blue and '''not''' purple in the movie. [[User:RIBFIR Forever|The RIBFIR Dude]] 16:28, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
::Are they actually ''named'' in the movie? In the brief scene where they're two different colors? [[User:JW|JW]] 16:34, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
::I'm not sure, but you could check the script and see who said what. ([[Rumble (G1)|The blue one]] said "uncrazimatic") [[User:RIBFIR Forever|The RIBFIR Dude]] 16:58, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
::In the movie, Rumble is exactly the same colors he always is in the cartoon. Maybe you're overestimating how purple cartoon Rumble is. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:37, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

:I don't know about that. I'd double check, but my G1 DVDs were on loan from a buddy of mine and I already gave them back. [[User:RIBFIR Forever|The RIBFIR Dude]] 16:56, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
::If you can provide screenshots from the TV cartoon and the movie, showing a substantial difference in coloration, and the appropriate excerpt from the script, I'll reconsider my position on making changes to the table. Otherwise, best to leave things as they are. [[User:JW|JW]] 17:06, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

::I don't think I'll end up ever doing that. So we may as well leave it as it is. But keep this on the talk page just in case. [[User:RIBFIR Forever|The RIBFIR Dude]] 17:29, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
:::I went ahead and did it, and I don't see any difference between the two. [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 22:59, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
[[image:G1-TVandMovieComparison-Rumble.jpg]]
::::Guy's banned, anyway. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 23:42, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::I think he was remembering the one scene where Rumble says "First we crack the shell, then we crack the nuts inside!" where he ''is'' blue instead of his usual purple. [[User:Inferno'sQueen|MR. Q (I'm a GUY)]] 16:01, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

==G2==
I'm pretty sure the unreleased G2 Go-Bot "Rumble" was primarily WHITE. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 13:44, 14 February 2008 (EST)
:He seems equal parts white and red. With teal and black showing up in robot mode. [http://www.allspark.com/gallery/g2gobots/RumbleCar] [http://www.allspark.com/gallery/g2gobots/RumbleBot] --[[User:74.57.3.251|74.57.3.251]] 19:04, 14 February 2008 (UTC) (Detour at work)

==FIRRIB==
How'd this page end up at FIBRIR, anyway? A search through ATT's archives shows that "FIRRIB" is the most common use (664 occurrences) (and personally, it's the version that springs immediately to mind for me.) FIBRIR is in second place with 346 occurrences. RIRFIB=188; RIBFIR=74. And all that notwithstanding, the original "movement" appears to have been started as FIRRIB (for the obvious purpose of debunking those silly, obviously-totally-wrong toy catalogs, natch.) See [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/browse_frm/thread/7f7aa2ec041325c4/d066fdb5fb0bdaf9?lnk=gst&q=FIRRIB#d066fdb5fb0bdaf9 here].

So, short version: this page should really be moved. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 19:36, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
:FIBRIR FOREVER!
:Or, in a more sensible mode, I wouldn't have a problem with that. [[User:JW|JW]] 15:06, 14 February 2008 (EST)
::I think it should stay as is, solely because there are more instances of FIBRIR. And RIR even when FIP or FITAA. --[[User:74.57.3.251|74.57.3.251]] 21:16, 14 February 2008 (UTC) (Detour)
:::But it's a ''fandom term'', regardless of whether it's accurate or not. The actual original version should be the article's name and central usage. (And anyways, "FIRRIB" flows off the tongue a bit more smoothly than "FIBRIR". : ] -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 21:40, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
::::Yeah, I'd rather see it at FIRRIB, myself. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 21:42, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::In the spirit of the article, I'm going to have to say FIBRIR to that. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:46, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

:FIRRIB may have been coined first, but I would imagine FIBRIR came right on its heels. Considering that FIBRIR is... pretty obviously the more solid position to take (outside of a single albeit prominent continuity) I think it's better for the article to stay where it is. The article covers both the fandom's silly argument ''as well as'' the complete story. And as McFeely's edits put quite nicely, FIRRIB is a mistaken aberration. We shouldn't name the article after it. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 19:11, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
::You're going on the position that there's a "right" and a "wrong" to the whole debate in the first place, which is pretty antithetical to the wiki's general approach to things. They're both right. One's right in the cartoon and a couple of other places, and the other's right elsewhere.
::If not for the FIRRIB position, the entire debate wouldn't exist. Also, the first FIBRIR shows up about 6 months after FIRRIB, in Nov. '94. I don't support naming the article after the secondary, reactionary counter-argument, rather than the position that started and popularized the whole thing, regardless of how "right" or "wrong" one or the other may be. It's like replacing [[Trukk not munky]] with <nowiki>[[PRIME=TRUCK AND PRIMAL=GORILLA]]</nowiki>. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 16:22, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

== So what about this? ==

[[Image:RumbleisRed.jpg|thumb|left|300px]] --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 20:44, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
:No, that clearly says "RuNble" is red, so we're obviously dealing with a third cassette here who, uh...WHAT'S THAT BEHIND YOU!?--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 20:52, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
::Maybe "Runble" is [[Enemy]]'s real name. He should team up with [[Plight of the Bumblebee!|Lazerbeak]]. [[User:JW|JW]] 20:57, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
:Teletraan's quoting the production bible. The other Decepticon screens take other quotes out of the bible, too. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 21:02, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
::I think this pic should be included in the article, as evidence of how schizophrenic the cartoon production process was, if nothing else. I would crop it to remove the watermarks, first. Did Rumble appear elsewhere in the same episode? [[User:JW|JW]] 16:08, 14 February 2008 (EST)
:::I'm pretty sure Rumble did appear in the episode given that this is where Megatron used everyone's powers. Anyway, I was going to take a screencap of this from my DVDs when I get back to my apartment. The current image is one I yanked off my photobucket account. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 21:14, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
::::After Megatron punches the ground to cause an earthquake, we see Rumble turn to the other 'Cons and point to himself. At least he didn't give the AREN'T YOU PROUD speeches like Starscream.... --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 21:36, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

==IDW==

Rumble and Frenzy do show up in ''[[Megatron: Origin]]''. I don't have access to a scanner right now, but I have the comic in front of me. Neither of the two are named, but on page 16 of [[Megatron Origin issue 1|#1]], the little bugger who deploys his pile drivers, who I assume is Rumble, has red markings. So it looks like FIBRIR applies for IDW. If anyone could back this up with a pic, it would be appreciated.--[[User:Nightshade83|Nightshade83]] 21:29, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
: Who uses piledrivers is not a good way to determine who is whom. In the cartoon, both use piledrivers. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:34, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

::That's why I pointed it out on the talk page. I don't have issues 2-4 with me right now (away from home at school -- issue 1 got mailed to me by a friend), but I don't think they said which one was which anywhere in Origin. Still, I considered this little bit of trivia at least worth discussing. --[[User:Nightshade83|Nightshade83]] 21:41, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

==Devil's Due==
Where in the DD Joe crossovers does it indicate which is which? I've pored over the first one, and though both show up, neither seem to be named, unless I missed it. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:42, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
:When Bumblebee punches the blue guy in #3, he says "I don't THINK so, RUMBLE!". - [[User:RolonBolon|RolonBolon]] 23:29, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
::Aha. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 20:25, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

==Robot Heroes==
Well, going by the photos released from the Toy Fair, there's gonna be a Robot Heroes Rumble... and he's Red. [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 05:37, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
:And the Diamond Select Toys busts have Rumble blue and Frenzy red. Also, it looks like the red Frenzy comes with Ravage and Blue Rumble comes with Laserbeak and Ratbat. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 18:57, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

== Movie Frenzy ==

His only coloring (besides silver, which doesn't really count as a color) is his BLUE EYES. Should that be mentioned here? [[User:Inferno'sQueen|MR. Q (I'm a GUY)]] 15:59, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
:This article is only about the G1 characters (despite occasional jokes elsewhere in the wiki). [[User:JW|JW]] 16:02, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
::Oh. But if Rumble is in TF2, and looks just like Frenzy except having red eyes...?[[User:Inferno'sQueen|MR. Q (I'm a GUY)]] 19:05, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
:::If that should happen, I certainly think it would bear mention here. [[User:JW|JW]] 19:08, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
::::Of course, we've no evidence of that yet.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 19:16, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
:::::We'll just have to wait and see. [[User:Inferno'sQueen|MR. Q (I'm a GUY)]] 19:26, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

== IDW Comics ==

Have they actually identified which is which yet in IDW? [[User:JW|JW]] 11:33, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

:'''Warpspeed Hellscream says:''' As of AHM, Rumble is red and Frenzy is blue. Dammit. I believe in the FIBRIR side of this argument. FIBRIR 4ever! [[User:Warpspeed Hellscream|Screamer]] 05:34, 11 September 2009 (EDT)
:And here's my footage of IDW's panel at SDCC 2008. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffvrLk_6Seo At 00:28], you can hear me ask Shane who is who, and the disappointment among the FIRRIB supporters. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 07:47, 11 September 2009 (EDT)
::Er. Shouldn't the FIBRIR supporters be ''happy'' that Frenzy is blue and Rumble is red? ;) (Me, I prefer Rumble as blue, darnit...) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:33, 11 September 2009 (EDT)

== Article namechange? ==

Just a tiny suggestion, but maybe this page should be renamed "frenzy/rumble controversy" or "RIBFIR and FIBRIR" to avoid the article looking biased? (like i said,just a tiny suggestion) [[User:Rhinox555|Decepticon Rhinox]] 18:39, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
:I think the less seriously we take this "controversy" the better.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 18:48, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

== Shattered Glass Continuity? ==
I know it's a G1 derived continuity, but I don't think it's quite the same as IDW or Dreamwave, and it certainly adds nothing to the FIRRIB argument, because their colors are based on the Autobot mini-cassettes, with no reasoning behind which cassette got which new colors. So in short, I don't think it should be on the chart. Opinions? [[User:Rideonshootingstarxx|Rideonshootingstarxx]] 00:56, 8 July 2009 (EDT)
: I don't really think it should be on the chart, either. Without looking, as I recall, there are a few on there that I think are examples of dogpiling, and not useful information. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:02, 8 July 2009 (EDT)
Hmmmmm. I don't know what Kids Stuff is, and I could maybe live without the few Frenzy-less sections (Alternators, Robot Heroes, and that Kids Stuff. Ladybird too?) So maybe cut it down to the sections with BOTH Rumble and Frenzy and um... I don't care for G2 on there either. None of those help with the ARGUEMENT, they just document colors of Rumble and Frenzy. So...? -[[User:Rideonshootingstarxx|Rideonshootingstarxx]] 01:10, 8 July 2009 (EDT)
: Oh, we should definitely keep the Robot Heroes and Alternators things. Those are important. They show that Rumble is red (and that Frenzy is blue is implied). But I agree on G2. G2 and Shattered Glass are irrelevant to the discussion. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:56, 8 July 2009 (EDT)

User talk:67.226.183.193

2009-09-11T16:32:13Z

69.231.197.115: New page: You don't need to put in the "Speedy delete" tag. The mods and admins know. --~~~~

You don't need to put in the "Speedy delete" tag. The mods and admins know. --[[Special:Contributions/69.231.197.115|69.231.197.115]] 12:32, 11 September 2009 (EDT)

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Talk:FIRRIB

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