MediaWiki - User contributions [en]

Tempest Spin

2012-03-18T19:21:09Z

71.233.191.25: Fixed grammar, and I don't think "intimate" has maybe the best connotation to use here.

{{factions|autobot}}
:''Jìng Fēng Bīaolún is an [[Autobot]] from the [[Aligned continuity family]].''

[[Image:Jing Feng Biaolun.jpg|thumb|300px|]]

'''Jìng Fēng Bīaolún''' (劲风飙轮, "Whirlwind Wheel") is an [[Autobot]] guerrilla expert. With aplomb and courage, she can strike at the [[Decepticon]]s with fierce precision. Her attacks are aided by her piercing knowledge of [[Megatron (Prime)|Megatron]] and his troops, allowing her to easily identify weak spots in the Decepticon legions.

==Games==
===''Transformers Online''===
{{storylink|Transformers Online}}
{{charstubfiction}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Jing Feng Biaolun}}
[[Category:Chinese-original characters]]
[[Category:Female Transformers]]
[[Category:Transformers Online Autobots]]
[[Category:Video game-only characters]]

Chevalier

2012-03-18T19:18:38Z

71.233.191.25: Tried to fix up the English grammar some.

{{factions|autobot}}
:''Fēi Jì Zhànjǐng is an [[Autobot]] from the [[Aligned continuity family]].''

[[Image:Fei Ji Zhanjing.jpg|thumb|300px|]]

Prior to the [[Great War (Prime)|Great War]], '''Fēi Jì Zhànjǐng''' (飞骑战警, "Flying Rider Infantry") was the scourge of crime, meting out her own brand of justice on any outlaws who would dare cross her path. After the War began, Fēi Jì Zhànjǐng joined the [[Autobot]]s and continued her old methods to punish the [[Decepticon]]s.

==Games==
===''Transformers Online''===
{{storylink|Transformers Online}}
{{charstubfiction}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Fei Ji Zhanjing}}
[[Category:Chinese-original characters]]
[[Category:Female Transformers]]
[[Category:Transformers Online Autobots]]
[[Category:Video game-only characters]]

Talk:Bantor (Prime)

2012-03-18T18:13:19Z

71.233.191.25:

:''Bantor is a Fuzor, or at least he is after Ratchet added some tiger attributes to his mandrill beast mode.''

Isn't that a bit literal for the gibberish a half-conscious Ratchet was spouting, especially since actual beastformers are rare in Aligned? Hell, "tiger in his tank" itself was quoting a petrol (gasoline) marketing slogan that suggested that a certain brand of petrol would make your engine run better. - [[User:Mammalian Verisimilitude|Mammalian Verisimilitude]] 14:01, 18 March 2012 (EDT)
:Ratchet mentioned the character. Whether real or dreamed he gets a page. And Ratchet being loopy isn't enough of a detractor to automatically assume he's entirely dreamed.--[[Special:Contributions/71.233.191.25|71.233.191.25]] 14:13, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

Talk:Transformers Online (2012 video game)

2012-03-18T15:35:38Z

71.233.191.25: /* Character names */ sp

==Guys, Thundertron==
http://tf.91.com/guide/map/map.shtml
Yup, that blue and silver guy is Thundertron, which means we have a faction symbol for the Star Seekers too. This game is ''amazing.'' [[User:Antimatter|Antimatter]] 01:40, 16 March 2012 (EDT)
:I think you mean [http://tf.91.com/guide/feature/ldjh/#zy here]. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 01:44, 16 March 2012 (EDT)
:: I am completely positive that Thundertron's name is on my link, too. Granted, your's has the proper picture. [[User:Antimatter|Antimatter]] 01:46, 16 March 2012 (EDT)
:::"that blue and silver guy is Thundertron" is kind of misleading when there's no guys, period, on the page you linked to. But this is a great find, nonetheless! --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 01:54, 16 March 2012 (EDT)
::::Fair enough, apologies. Very excited! Haven't helped the wiki this much before. [[User:Antimatter|Antimatter]] 01:57, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

== Character names ==

''Moved and continued from [[User talk:TX55#Chinese MMO?|User talk:TX55]]''

:Before we start making pages, shouldn't the names we use be the original phonetic Chinese, NOT the English translation? I mean, we don't call the [[Trainbot]]s "[[Getsuei|Moonshadow]]" and "[[Shoki|Devil-Queller]]" and whatnot. Just wanna nip that one in the bud. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]]

::Using the original phonetic Chinese +1, since we've used phonetic this [[Mueikyaku|rule]] [[Chōryūken|for]] a long while. Not to mention there is no official English name by far.

Awww. Why do you hate the glory that is Fakie Men? These names are so fun. But if we must be stodgey, serious ol' spoil sports, we have to at least make sure all the translated names are there in the pages and maybe as redirects even. --[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 14:53, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

:Well, Notes exist for a reason. [[User:Antimatter|Antimatter]] 15:00, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

::Two or three is funny. Nearly 80 is fucking stupid. It's ''Family Guy''-level END THE JOKE FIVE MINUTES AGO unfunny. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 15:27, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

:::Will we be keeping the accent marks used in Pinyin or disregarding them in article titles? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 17:13, 16 March 2012 (EDT)
I agree with Antimatter notes are important --[[User:Shockwave1704|Shockwave1704]] 15:34, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

::::My Thoughts: Which is easier, clearer, and more useful for us and the users of the wiki? 20+ fairly long, meaningless (to non-speakers) and easily confusable phonetic names like "'Hùanyǐng Xīnxīng" or 20+ well translated (obviously) versions of those names that are just as acurate but also unique, easily memorable and evocative, like "Phantom Nova" If both are equally acurate, true representations of the characters Chinese names then I vote for the translated versions that mean something and are memorable for each character. I'm fine if the Wiki decides otherwise, but just personally thinks this is the better option so wanted to say so. :) --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 18:57, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::I am not at all comfortable with "translating" Chinese character names to fit our convenience. We don't do it for Japanese names and wouldn't do it for other languages. The game is not in English; we are just going to have to deal. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 19:32, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

::::::In a vacuum, I'd prefer translated names. But we don't translate Japanese character names that are in Japanese, and at least some Chinese names for "imported" characters are basically English, so the consistent thing to do is use the names in Chinese. Which also obviates the need for arguments over what is or isn't a good/accurate/appropriate/Transformery enough name translation. -[[User:LV|LV]] 20:17, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::::No. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 20:29, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::::: That's cool too. :) Not a big deal. I just like the more evocative translations. Maybe we'll get lucky and some of them will show up in some fan-aimed English fiction someday. Stranger things have happened. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 20:33, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

::::::::: I don't think the situation is entirely analogous. Regarding the Trainbots argument, most Japanese characters have straight phoneticization of English names, even the original Japanese-exclusive guys. Therefor, Trainbots or Dinoforce having Japanese names are noteworthy. Further, they've been referred to as such in some official English-language publications.

::::::::: The situation doesn't seem to be the same in the case of Chinese character. Characters who have less fanciful names tend to have straight translations: Dà Huáng-fēng (大黃蜂, "Bumblebee"). Tzáng Tǐeh (藏鐵, "Iron hiding"). Pái-húai (Taiwan, 徘徊, "Prowl"). (Or Jǐng Chē (China, 警車, "Police Car")). Lìeh-chǐuan (Taiwan, 獵犬, "Hound"). (Or Tan Zhang (China, 探長, "Chief Detective")). Admittedly, more fanciful names tend to have less literal translations. It seems to me that translating the names would be in-line with historic norms. After all, we call ブレイバー 'Braver,' not 'Bureibā.' That is, in fact a translation.

::::::::: There are, after all, a LOT of new characters, and as is pointed out above, the phoneticized Chinese is going to be very difficult for anyone to use in any kind of meaningful way. I think the utility of translating the names, along with the historic trends both in Chinese nomenclature and how this wiki handles foreign names lends weight to the idea that we really should be using translations. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 10:21, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

::::::::::: Just to throw in a practical example, when I was trying to refer to the post I made on Phantom Nova's talk page down below in the next section I could not remember or hope to spell his untranslated Chinese name to make the reference. I couldn't even get close enough spelling wise to look it up on our search. I had to search Phantom Nova. Now imagine your looking for any random one of this huge batch of new characters when we get them all in. I would have to click on every single chinese name in the catagory till I hit a particular one by trial and error because they're like 40+ indistinguishable, big long meaningless (to us) jumbles of Chinese. That's honestly a terrible thing for users. Listing them by accurate translations would be infinately more useful for 99% of our users.--[[Special:Contributions/71.233.191.25|71.233.191.25]] 10:54, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

::::::::::::[http://obscuretf.com/CNTransExample.jpg Whose accuracy do you have in mind?] --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 11:17, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::::::::::But all translations of anything are ALWAYS that way always. The translator picks which ever possibility he thinks fit best using his own judgement. That's how anything is translated. They are ALL accurate and true. So we pick one, which or why doesn't matter because they're all true and accurate, and then we note on the page that it is an "unofficial translation". Then we are making it useable, and helpful for our users and keeping a true accurate translation, AND being honest about it being unofficial, just like we do with officially unnamed characters like "Big Red". That's the best model to follow in this case, IMO.

[http://www.mediafire.com/?8eisaktmdg9pcrd File updated] (Male Autobots done) --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 21:29, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

:I don't know if these will help, but it looks like [http://www.microsofttranslator.com/ Bing Translator] and [http://babelfish.yahoo.com/ Babelfish] use different algorithms to translate Chinese - Hùanyǐng Xīnxīng is "Phantom Star" at Bing, "Illusory Image Nova" at Babelfish, and "Phantom Nova" at Google Translate, so it might be worth comparing the results between different translators if something doesn't make sense at one of them. (I do the same thing with Japanese between Google, Babelfish, and Infoseek Japan.) Unfortunately, I can't get the MMO's sidebar to go away when translating pages with Bing, but the page text can be copied and pasted fine.

:By the way, should we move this discussion to the Transformers Online talk page? --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 23:19, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

::According to my and my friends' experience, translators are not really reliable. They make mistakes frequently. (At least in situations such as CH/EN, CH/JP, EN/CH, EN/JP, JP/CH, or JP/EN translation) They can be just for references.
::The term "新星" (''lit.'' New star) is the Chinese word for "Nova", definitely not "Star". However, "幻影" is much complicate, it can be "Mirage", "Phantom", "Illusion", even "Vision" (like "I have a vision") depend on situation where the word is used.
::Not a problem! (The contents have been moved.) :D --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 06:14, 17 March 2012 (EDT)

:::Hm. Well, TX, could you comment on some of the changes I made? When I looked up "chāonéng" (超能) for Chāonéng Jīanbīng and Chāonéng Yóujíshǒu, I saw that it was "super, ultra, incredible" rather than "psychic", which my searches told me was "chāonéng lì" (well, chāo néng lì). Was that right?
:::I also changed Zhòng Chúi Tǐe Wèi to "Heavy Hammer Iron Guard" from "Heavy Hummer Iron Guard"; [[wikipedia:Ch%C3%BAi|wikipedia]], at least, says that Chúi is a traditional type of hammer weapon. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 09:10, 17 March 2012 (EDT)

Mind, even I have to translate CHS to CHT, as I learned using Taiwan's system. As for name's, half are basically based on how it sounds in English (look at G1 Megatron as an example) as noted earlier. Translating them would result in funky names (G1 Optimus' as another). I'm for having the accent marks/macrons present, because all it takes is for one change in pitch to change a word/character/meaning. --'''lonegamer78, not logged in'''

:I use translate.google.com to convert the pages and such thing didn't happen as all words (including names) remain the same except they became Traditional Chinese. And I vote for having macrons, too. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 06:14, 17 March 2012 (EDT)

[http://www.mediafire.com/?8eisaktmdg9pcrd File updated] (Female Autobots done) --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 14:03, 17 March 2012 (EDT)

===Alternate translation===
The Allspark's Meister79 has started doing his own set of translations.

[http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=85740&view=findpost&p=2031656 http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=85740&view=findpost&p=2031656]

He understands the language as well, so definitely worth checking out. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 12:22, 17 March 2012 (EDT)

:Yeah it's good to have those. A lot of translation from any foriegn language is always personal interpretations and trying to catch complex and subtle feelings and connotations and recast them in an entirely different "medium." I might suggest linking these alternate takes in the notes of this page or the characters themselves. The more translations we have to compair I think the closer we can understand the full text. --[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 12:58, 17 March 2012 (EDT)

Hi people! I just completed translating all 4 pages of the bios today.
I think I have the gist of what they mean, and tried to express them in more conventional English.
The names are still a bit wonky, though. This is because the Chinese usually give their own names to characters, and literal translation will not get us the intended name. Eg: 红蜘蛛(Red Spider) is supposed to be Starscream. - Meister79

:How is "红蜘蛛" pronounced? Is the idea to approximate "Starscream" phonetically, ignoring the literal Chinese meanings of the characters, or is it just a new name with no connection to the name "Starscream"? -[[User:LV|LV]] 10:51, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

:Thanks Meister. :)I asked over on Phantom Nova's (can't remember or spell his Chinese name) page If maybe we should put both translations on the character's talk pages as references. So people can see a little of the variable meanings you cab get translating the original Chinese. Thought iy might be a good idea to pose here to. Thoughts?--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 07:56, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

::Perhaps we can create a source page like [[Generation 1 cartoon timeline (Japan)/src]] and place available translations with original Chinese material there as a reference. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 09:41, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

Talk:Transformers Online (2012 video game)

2012-03-18T15:22:17Z

71.233.191.25: /* Character names */

==Guys, Thundertron==
http://tf.91.com/guide/map/map.shtml
Yup, that blue and silver guy is Thundertron, which means we have a faction symbol for the Star Seekers too. This game is ''amazing.'' [[User:Antimatter|Antimatter]] 01:40, 16 March 2012 (EDT)
:I think you mean [http://tf.91.com/guide/feature/ldjh/#zy here]. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 01:44, 16 March 2012 (EDT)
:: I am completely positive that Thundertron's name is on my link, too. Granted, your's has the proper picture. [[User:Antimatter|Antimatter]] 01:46, 16 March 2012 (EDT)
:::"that blue and silver guy is Thundertron" is kind of misleading when there's no guys, period, on the page you linked to. But this is a great find, nonetheless! --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 01:54, 16 March 2012 (EDT)
::::Fair enough, apologies. Very excited! Haven't helped the wiki this much before. [[User:Antimatter|Antimatter]] 01:57, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

== Character names ==

''Moved and continued from [[User talk:TX55#Chinese MMO?|User talk:TX55]]''

:Before we start making pages, shouldn't the names we use be the original phonetic Chinese, NOT the English translation? I mean, we don't call the [[Trainbot]]s "[[Getsuei|Moonshadow]]" and "[[Shoki|Devil-Queller]]" and whatnot. Just wanna nip that one in the bud. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]]

::Using the original phonetic Chinese +1, since we've used phonetic this [[Mueikyaku|rule]] [[Chōryūken|for]] a long while. Not to mention there is no official English name by far.

Awww. Why do you hate the glory that is Fakie Men? These names are so fun. But if we must be stodgey, serious ol' spoil sports, we have to at least make sure all the translated names are there in the pages and maybe as redirects even. --[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 14:53, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

:Well, Notes exist for a reason. [[User:Antimatter|Antimatter]] 15:00, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

::Two or three is funny. Nearly 80 is fucking stupid. It's ''Family Guy''-level END THE JOKE FIVE MINUTES AGO unfunny. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 15:27, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

:::Will we be keeping the accent marks used in Pinyin or disregarding them in article titles? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 17:13, 16 March 2012 (EDT)
I agree with Antimatter notes are important --[[User:Shockwave1704|Shockwave1704]] 15:34, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

::::My Thoughts: Which is easier, clearer, and more useful for us and the users of the wiki? 20+ fairly long, meaningless (to non-speakers) and easily confusable phonetic names like "'Hùanyǐng Xīnxīng" or 20+ well translated (obviously) versions of those names that are just as acurate but also unique, easily memorable and evocative, like "Phantom Nova" If both are equally acurate, true representations of the characters Chinese names then I vote for the translated versions that mean something and are memorable for each character. I'm fine if the Wiki decides otherwise, but just personally thinks this is the better option so wanted to say so. :) --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 18:57, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::I am not at all comfortable with "translating" Chinese character names to fit our convenience. We don't do it for Japanese names and wouldn't do it for other languages. The game is not in English; we are just going to have to deal. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 19:32, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

::::::In a vacuum, I'd prefer translated names. But we don't translate Japanese character names that are in Japanese, and at least some Chinese names for "imported" characters are basically English, so the consistent thing to do is use the names in Chinese. Which also obviates the need for arguments over what is or isn't a good/accurate/appropriate/Transformery enough name translation. -[[User:LV|LV]] 20:17, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::::No. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 20:29, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::::: That's cool too. :) Not a big deal. I just like the more evocative translations. Maybe we'll get lucky and some of them will show up in some fan-aimed English fiction someday. Stranger things have happened. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 20:33, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

::::::::: I don't think the situation is entirely analogous. Regarding the Trainbots argument, most Japanese characters have straight phoneticization of English names, even the original Japanese-exclusive guys. Therefor, Trainbots or Dinoforce having Japanese names are noteworthy. Further, they've been referred to as such in some official English-language publications.

::::::::: The situation doesn't seem to be the same in the case of Chinese character. Characters who have less fanciful names tend to have straight translations: Dà Huáng-fēng (大黃蜂, "Bumblebee"). Tzáng Tǐeh (藏鐵, "Iron hiding"). Pái-húai (Taiwan, 徘徊, "Prowl"). (Or Jǐng Chē (China, 警車, "Police Car")). Lìeh-chǐuan (Taiwan, 獵犬, "Hound"). (Or Tan Zhang (China, 探長, "Chief Detective")). Admittedly, more fanciful names tend to have less literal translations. It seems to me that translating the names would be in-line with historic norms. After all, we call ブレイバー 'Braver,' not 'Bureibā.' That is, in fact a translation.

::::::::: There are, after all, a LOT of new characters, and as is pointed out above, the phoneticized Chinese is going to be very difficult for anyone to use in any kind of meaningful way. I think the utility of translating the names, along with the historic trends both in Chinese nomenclature and how this wiki handles foreign names lends weight to the idea that we really should be using translations. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 10:21, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

::::::::::: Just to throw in a practical example, when I was trying to refer to the post I made on Phantom Nova's talk page down below in the next section I could not remember or hope to spell his untranslated Chinese name to make the reference. I couldn't even get close enough spelling wise to look it up on our search. I had to search Phantom Nova. Now imagine your looking for any random one of this huge batch of new characters when we get them all in. I would have to click on every single chinese name in the catagory till I hit a particular one by trial and error because they're like 40+ indistinguishable, big long meaningless (to us) jumbles of Chinese. That's honestly a terrible thing for users. Listing them by accurate translations would be infinately more useful for 99% of our users.--[[Special:Contributions/71.233.191.25|71.233.191.25]] 10:54, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

::::::::::::[http://obscuretf.com/CNTransExample.jpg Whose accuracy do you have in mind?] --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 11:17, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::::::::::But all translations of anything are ALWAYS that way always. The translator picks which ever possibility he things fits best using his own judgement. That's how anything is translated. They are ALL acurate and true. So we pick one, which or why doesn't matter at all because they're all true and acurate, and then we note on the page that it is an "unofficial translation". The we are making it useable, and helpful for our users and keeping a true accurate translation, AND being honest about it being unofficial just like we do with officially unnamed characters like "Big Red". That's the best model to follow in this case, IMO.

[http://www.mediafire.com/?8eisaktmdg9pcrd File updated] (Male Autobots done) --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 21:29, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

:I don't know if these will help, but it looks like [http://www.microsofttranslator.com/ Bing Translator] and [http://babelfish.yahoo.com/ Babelfish] use different algorithms to translate Chinese - Hùanyǐng Xīnxīng is "Phantom Star" at Bing, "Illusory Image Nova" at Babelfish, and "Phantom Nova" at Google Translate, so it might be worth comparing the results between different translators if something doesn't make sense at one of them. (I do the same thing with Japanese between Google, Babelfish, and Infoseek Japan.) Unfortunately, I can't get the MMO's sidebar to go away when translating pages with Bing, but the page text can be copied and pasted fine.

:By the way, should we move this discussion to the Transformers Online talk page? --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 23:19, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

::According to my and my friends' experience, translators are not really reliable. They make mistakes frequently. (At least in situations such as CH/EN, CH/JP, EN/CH, EN/JP, JP/CH, or JP/EN translation) They can be just for references.
::The term "新星" (''lit.'' New star) is the Chinese word for "Nova", definitely not "Star". However, "幻影" is much complicate, it can be "Mirage", "Phantom", "Illusion", even "Vision" (like "I have a vision") depend on situation where the word is used.
::Not a problem! (The contents have been moved.) :D --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 06:14, 17 March 2012 (EDT)

:::Hm. Well, TX, could you comment on some of the changes I made? When I looked up "chāonéng" (超能) for Chāonéng Jīanbīng and Chāonéng Yóujíshǒu, I saw that it was "super, ultra, incredible" rather than "psychic", which my searches told me was "chāonéng lì" (well, chāo néng lì). Was that right?
:::I also changed Zhòng Chúi Tǐe Wèi to "Heavy Hammer Iron Guard" from "Heavy Hummer Iron Guard"; [[wikipedia:Ch%C3%BAi|wikipedia]], at least, says that Chúi is a traditional type of hammer weapon. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 09:10, 17 March 2012 (EDT)

Mind, even I have to translate CHS to CHT, as I learned using Taiwan's system. As for name's, half are basically based on how it sounds in English (look at G1 Megatron as an example) as noted earlier. Translating them would result in funky names (G1 Optimus' as another). I'm for having the accent marks/macrons present, because all it takes is for one change in pitch to change a word/character/meaning. --'''lonegamer78, not logged in'''

:I use translate.google.com to convert the pages and such thing didn't happen as all words (including names) remain the same except they became Traditional Chinese. And I vote for having macrons, too. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 06:14, 17 March 2012 (EDT)

[http://www.mediafire.com/?8eisaktmdg9pcrd File updated] (Female Autobots done) --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 14:03, 17 March 2012 (EDT)

===Alternate translation===
The Allspark's Meister79 has started doing his own set of translations.

[http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=85740&view=findpost&p=2031656 http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=85740&view=findpost&p=2031656]

He understands the language as well, so definitely worth checking out. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 12:22, 17 March 2012 (EDT)

:Yeah it's good to have those. A lot of translation from any foriegn language is always personal interpretations and trying to catch complex and subtle feelings and connotations and recast them in an entirely different "medium." I might suggest linking these alternate takes in the notes of this page or the characters themselves. The more translations we have to compair I think the closer we can understand the full text. --[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 12:58, 17 March 2012 (EDT)

Hi people! I just completed translating all 4 pages of the bios today.
I think I have the gist of what they mean, and tried to express them in more conventional English.
The names are still a bit wonky, though. This is because the Chinese usually give their own names to characters, and literal translation will not get us the intended name. Eg: 红蜘蛛(Red Spider) is supposed to be Starscream. - Meister79

:How is "红蜘蛛" pronounced? Is the idea to approximate "Starscream" phonetically, ignoring the literal Chinese meanings of the characters, or is it just a new name with no connection to the name "Starscream"? -[[User:LV|LV]] 10:51, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

:Thanks Meister. :)I asked over on Phantom Nova's (can't remember or spell his Chinese name) page If maybe we should put both translations on the character's talk pages as references. So people can see a little of the variable meanings you cab get translating the original Chinese. Thought iy might be a good idea to pose here to. Thoughts?--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 07:56, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

::Perhaps we can create a source page like [[Generation 1 cartoon timeline (Japan)/src]] and place available translations with original Chinese material there as a reference. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 09:41, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

Talk:Transformers Online (2012 video game)

2012-03-18T14:54:21Z

71.233.191.25: /* Character names */

==Guys, Thundertron==
http://tf.91.com/guide/map/map.shtml
Yup, that blue and silver guy is Thundertron, which means we have a faction symbol for the Star Seekers too. This game is ''amazing.'' [[User:Antimatter|Antimatter]] 01:40, 16 March 2012 (EDT)
:I think you mean [http://tf.91.com/guide/feature/ldjh/#zy here]. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 01:44, 16 March 2012 (EDT)
:: I am completely positive that Thundertron's name is on my link, too. Granted, your's has the proper picture. [[User:Antimatter|Antimatter]] 01:46, 16 March 2012 (EDT)
:::"that blue and silver guy is Thundertron" is kind of misleading when there's no guys, period, on the page you linked to. But this is a great find, nonetheless! --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 01:54, 16 March 2012 (EDT)
::::Fair enough, apologies. Very excited! Haven't helped the wiki this much before. [[User:Antimatter|Antimatter]] 01:57, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

== Character names ==

''Moved and continued from [[User talk:TX55#Chinese MMO?|User talk:TX55]]''

:Before we start making pages, shouldn't the names we use be the original phonetic Chinese, NOT the English translation? I mean, we don't call the [[Trainbot]]s "[[Getsuei|Moonshadow]]" and "[[Shoki|Devil-Queller]]" and whatnot. Just wanna nip that one in the bud. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]]

::Using the original phonetic Chinese +1, since we've used phonetic this [[Mueikyaku|rule]] [[Chōryūken|for]] a long while. Not to mention there is no official English name by far.

Awww. Why do you hate the glory that is Fakie Men? These names are so fun. But if we must be stodgey, serious ol' spoil sports, we have to at least make sure all the translated names are there in the pages and maybe as redirects even. --[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 14:53, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

:Well, Notes exist for a reason. [[User:Antimatter|Antimatter]] 15:00, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

::Two or three is funny. Nearly 80 is fucking stupid. It's ''Family Guy''-level END THE JOKE FIVE MINUTES AGO unfunny. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 15:27, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

:::Will we be keeping the accent marks used in Pinyin or disregarding them in article titles? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 17:13, 16 March 2012 (EDT)
I agree with Antimatter notes are important --[[User:Shockwave1704|Shockwave1704]] 15:34, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

::::My Thoughts: Which is easier, clearer, and more useful for us and the users of the wiki? 20+ fairly long, meaningless (to non-speakers) and easily confusable phonetic names like "'Hùanyǐng Xīnxīng" or 20+ well translated (obviously) versions of those names that are just as acurate but also unique, easily memorable and evocative, like "Phantom Nova" If both are equally acurate, true representations of the characters Chinese names then I vote for the translated versions that mean something and are memorable for each character. I'm fine if the Wiki decides otherwise, but just personally thinks this is the better option so wanted to say so. :) --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 18:57, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::I am not at all comfortable with "translating" Chinese character names to fit our convenience. We don't do it for Japanese names and wouldn't do it for other languages. The game is not in English; we are just going to have to deal. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 19:32, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

::::::In a vacuum, I'd prefer translated names. But we don't translate Japanese character names that are in Japanese, and at least some Chinese names for "imported" characters are basically English, so the consistent thing to do is use the names in Chinese. Which also obviates the need for arguments over what is or isn't a good/accurate/appropriate/Transformery enough name translation. -[[User:LV|LV]] 20:17, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::::No. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 20:29, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::::: That's cool too. :) Not a big deal. I just like the more evocative translations. Maybe we'll get lucky and some of them will show up in some fan-aimed English fiction someday. Stranger things have happened. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 20:33, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

::::::::: I don't think the situation is entirely analogous. Regarding the Trainbots argument, most Japanese characters have straight phoneticization of English names, even the original Japanese-exclusive guys. Therefor, Trainbots or Dinoforce having Japanese names are noteworthy. Further, they've been referred to as such in some official English-language publications.

::::::::: The situation doesn't seem to be the same in the case of Chinese character. Characters who have less fanciful names tend to have straight translations: Dà Huáng-fēng (大黃蜂, "Bumblebee"). Tzáng Tǐeh (藏鐵, "Iron hiding"). Pái-húai (Taiwan, 徘徊, "Prowl"). (Or Jǐng Chē (China, 警車, "Police Car")). Lìeh-chǐuan (Taiwan, 獵犬, "Hound"). (Or Tan Zhang (China, 探長, "Chief Detective")). Admittedly, more fanciful names tend to have less literal translations. It seems to me that translating the names would be in-line with historic norms. After all, we call ブレイバー 'Braver,' not 'Bureibā.' That is, in fact a translation.

::::::::: There are, after all, a LOT of new characters, and as is pointed out above, the phoneticized Chinese is going to be very difficult for anyone to use in any kind of meaningful way. I think the utility of translating the names, along with the historic trends both in Chinese nomenclature and how this wiki handles foreign names lends weight to the idea that we really should be using translations. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 10:21, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

::::::::::: Just to throw in a practical example, when I was trying to refer to the post I made on Phantom Nova's talk page down below in the next section I could not remember or hope to spell his untranslated Chinese name to make the reference. I couldn't even get close enough spelling wise to look it up on our search. I had to search Phantom Nova. Now imagine your looking for any random one of this huge batch of new characters when we get them all in. I would have to click on every single chinese name in the catagory till I hit a particular one by trial and error because they're like 40+ indistinguishable, big long meaningless (to us) jumbles of Chinese. That's honestly a terrible thing for users. Listing them by accurate translations would be infinately more useful for 99% of our users.--[[Special:Contributions/71.233.191.25|71.233.191.25]] 10:54, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

[http://www.mediafire.com/?8eisaktmdg9pcrd File updated] (Male Autobots done) --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 21:29, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

:I don't know if these will help, but it looks like [http://www.microsofttranslator.com/ Bing Translator] and [http://babelfish.yahoo.com/ Babelfish] use different algorithms to translate Chinese - Hùanyǐng Xīnxīng is "Phantom Star" at Bing, "Illusory Image Nova" at Babelfish, and "Phantom Nova" at Google Translate, so it might be worth comparing the results between different translators if something doesn't make sense at one of them. (I do the same thing with Japanese between Google, Babelfish, and Infoseek Japan.) Unfortunately, I can't get the MMO's sidebar to go away when translating pages with Bing, but the page text can be copied and pasted fine.

:By the way, should we move this discussion to the Transformers Online talk page? --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 23:19, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

::According to my and my friends' experience, translators are not really reliable. They make mistakes frequently. (At least in situations such as CH/EN, CH/JP, EN/CH, EN/JP, JP/CH, or JP/EN translation) They can be just for references.
::The term "新星" (''lit.'' New star) is the Chinese word for "Nova", definitely not "Star". However, "幻影" is much complicate, it can be "Mirage", "Phantom", "Illusion", even "Vision" (like "I have a vision") depend on situation where the word is used.
::Not a problem! (The contents have been moved.) :D --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 06:14, 17 March 2012 (EDT)

:::Hm. Well, TX, could you comment on some of the changes I made? When I looked up "chāonéng" (超能) for Chāonéng Jīanbīng and Chāonéng Yóujíshǒu, I saw that it was "super, ultra, incredible" rather than "psychic", which my searches told me was "chāonéng lì" (well, chāo néng lì). Was that right?
:::I also changed Zhòng Chúi Tǐe Wèi to "Heavy Hammer Iron Guard" from "Heavy Hummer Iron Guard"; [[wikipedia:Ch%C3%BAi|wikipedia]], at least, says that Chúi is a traditional type of hammer weapon. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 09:10, 17 March 2012 (EDT)

Mind, even I have to translate CHS to CHT, as I learned using Taiwan's system. As for name's, half are basically based on how it sounds in English (look at G1 Megatron as an example) as noted earlier. Translating them would result in funky names (G1 Optimus' as another). I'm for having the accent marks/macrons present, because all it takes is for one change in pitch to change a word/character/meaning. --'''lonegamer78, not logged in'''

:I use translate.google.com to convert the pages and such thing didn't happen as all words (including names) remain the same except they became Traditional Chinese. And I vote for having macrons, too. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 06:14, 17 March 2012 (EDT)

[http://www.mediafire.com/?8eisaktmdg9pcrd File updated] (Female Autobots done) --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 14:03, 17 March 2012 (EDT)

===Alternate translation===
The Allspark's Meister79 has started doing his own set of translations.

[http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=85740&view=findpost&p=2031656 http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=85740&view=findpost&p=2031656]

He understands the language as well, so definitely worth checking out. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 12:22, 17 March 2012 (EDT)

:Yeah it's good to have those. A lot of translation from any foriegn language is always personal interpretations and trying to catch complex and subtle feelings and connotations and recast them in an entirely different "medium." I might suggest linking these alternate takes in the notes of this page or the characters themselves. The more translations we have to compair I think the closer we can understand the full text. --[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 12:58, 17 March 2012 (EDT)

Hi people! I just completed translating all 4 pages of the bios today.
I think I have the gist of what they mean, and tried to express them in more conventional English.
The names are still a bit wonky, though. This is because the Chinese usually give their own names to characters, and literal translation will not get us the intended name. Eg: 红蜘蛛(Red Spider) is supposed to be Starscream. - Meister79

:How is "红蜘蛛" pronounced? Is the idea to approximate "Starscream" phonetically, ignoring the literal Chinese meanings of the characters, or is it just a new name with no connection to the name "Starscream"? -[[User:LV|LV]] 10:51, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

:Thanks Meister. :)I asked over on Phantom Nova's (can't remember or spell his Chinese name) page If maybe we should put both translations on the character's talk pages as references. So people can see a little of the variable meanings you cab get translating the original Chinese. Thought iy might be a good idea to pose here to. Thoughts?--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 07:56, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

::Perhaps we can create a source page like [[Generation 1 cartoon timeline (Japan)/src]] and place available translations with original Chinese material there as a reference. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 09:41, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

Rung (G1)

2012-02-19T17:02:31Z

71.233.191.25: No. None of that is true. Undo revision 688383 by 68.239.177.192 (Talk)

{{factions|autobot}}
:''Rung is an [[Autobot]] from the [[IDW Generation 1 continuity|IDW]] portion of the [[Generation 1 continuity family]].''
[[Image:Rung Ongoing 22.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Rung is having a bad day.]]
'''Rung''' is a psy-ops specialist for the [[Autobot]] army. His reports are added to the [[Autopedia]] entries for each Autobot. He transforms into a communications maintenance vehicle with a long ladder-like repair arm.

It might be he is the standard guy to do the mental assessments of potential [[Wrecker]]s-to-be.

==Fiction==
===IDW Generation 1 continuity===
While hanging out at [[Maccadam's Old Oil House|Macadam's Old Oil House]], Rung spilled a cadet's drink. After refusing to clean up the spill, the poor bot was tossed across the bar, right onto [[Impactor]] and [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron's]] table. {{storylink|Chaos Theory Part 1}}

Rung did a psychological evaluation of Impactor before his trial for [[Squadron X|unlawful executions]]. He ended up being physically assaulted and threatened with extreme violence if he tried 'putting ideas' in Impactor's head, but managed to calm the situation down. In the end, Rung was left questioning whether Autobot High Command shared the blame for Impactor's crimes for turning a blind eye to the robot's growing psychopathy. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 5|Impactor's Autopedia entry}}

Rung later performed a pre-mission psych-screening on new Wreckers [[Rotorstorm]], [[Ironfist (G1)|Ironfist]], [[Pyro]], and [[Guzzle (G1)|Guzzle]] to estimate if they were suited to be put on the [[Garrus-9]] case. Rung was unimpressed by Rotorstorm's unrelenting bragging and joking, and found himself cutting through the charade when he mentioned [[Simanzi Massacre|Simanzi]]. Taking note of his dual personality, Rung declared him cleared for mission. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 1|Rotorstorm's Autopedia entry}} With Pyro, he diagnosed the robot as an extreme sufferer of [[Primus apotheosis]] and noted with sadness that the robot was suppressing his own engaging personality for a copy of another's. He cleared Pyro with reservations, noting that apotheosis sufferers were known for sacrificing themselves. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 5|Pyro's Autopedia entry}} With Guzzle, he cleared the 'bot as having personality flaws but no real psychological flaws, though he was unnerved by his disturbing habit of playing with his gun's safety. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 5|Guzzle's Autopedia entry}}

When screening Ironfist, he was impressed by his enthusiasm and knowledge, but not so much by his actual combat experience and mentality. Rung advised against Ironfist's participation, but retracted his negative conclusion when he received 'unsolicited advice' from [[Prowl (G1)|an undisclosed party]]. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 4|Ironfist's Autopedia entry}}

Rung treated the shell-shocked Autobot [[Flattop (Autobot)|Flattop]]. He discovered Flattop was a survivor of the [[Babu Yar]] atrocity, but that was not his immediate problem. What pushed him over the edge this time was an encounter with the [[Shimmer]]. Rung tried to give rational explanations for the appearance of Shimmer, but Flattop died right there in his office. {{storylink|Bullets}}

Rung was among the survivors of [[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]]'s attack on [[Kimia Facility]]. He and the others drifted in a cramped escape pod for some time until they were rescued by [[Arcee (G1)|Arcee]]. {{storylink|Chaos Part Three: Kings}}

After peace had been restored on Cybertron he joined Rodimus's crew of [[Swerve (G1)|Crusadacons]] on their quest for the lost Knights of Cybertron.

==Notes==
*A psychoanalyst named Rung was referenced in the unofficial Transformers novel ''Eugenesis'', written by ''[[The Transformers: Last Stand of the Wreckers|Wreckers]]'' co-author [[James Roberts]].
*The name "Rung" may be a reference to [[Wikipedia:Carl Jung|Carl Jung]], founder of analytical psychology. The mention of "Rungian analysis" in "[[Liars, A to D Part 1: How to Say Goodbye and Mean It|How to Say Goodbye and Mean It]]" could support this.
*Or maybe it's because he transforms into a communications tower maintenance vehicle with a long ladder arm.

==External links==
*[http://markerguru.deviantart.com/art/rung-colour-guide-253698917 Rung concept art at Alex Milne's deviantART]
*[http://markerguru.deviantart.com/gallery/?q=rung#/d471m8d Another Rung concept art featuring his altmode]

[[Category:Fiction-only Transformers]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Autobots]]
[[Category:Scientists]]