MediaWiki - User contributions [en]

Lio Junior (BW)

2009-06-03T22:15:52Z

76.127.243.157: /* Beast Wars II cartoon */

{{factions|maximal}}
:''Lio Junior is a [[Maximal]] in the [[Beast Wars II (franchise)|Beast Wars II]] portion of the [[Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''

[[Image:Model-LioJunior.jpg|right|250px|thumb|Foreshadowing Optimus Minor.]]
'''Lio Junior''' is the "son" of [[Lio Convoy]], created by the influence of pure energy upon Lio Convoy’s [[Energon Matrix]]. Though Lio Convoy says little on the matter, Lio Junior considers him his daddy. He desperately tries his hardest to prove his worth to the other [[Maximal|Maximals]], but due to his age he garners little respect. He is very rash at times and often doesn’t think things through. Though in the end, he has a kind [[spark]] and only wants to be viewed as an equal among his Maximal peers.

He can combine with [[Skywarp (BWII)|Skywarp]] and [[Santon]] to form [[Magnaboss II|Magnaboss]].

==Fiction==
===Cartoon continuity===
====''Beast Wars II'' cartoon====
:''Voice actor:'' [[Yumiko Kobayashi]] (Japanese)

[[Image:Liojunior.jpg|left|180px|thumb|I'm crushing your head!]]
{{-}}

Lio Junior featured most prominently in the final arc of the Beast Wars II series, the culmination of which was his combination with Lio Convoy (In a very Dragon-Ball-Z-esque "fusion" style of combination) into the Green-Glowing All-Powerful Gaia Lio Convoy.

====''Beast Wars Neo'' cartoon====
Lio Junior never appeared in the Neo cartoon, except, arguably, as one-half of Gaia Lio Convoy.

===''Beast Wars II'' comic===
==Toys==
===Beast Wars===
* '''Lio Junior''' (Basic, 1998)
** ''Japanese ID number:'' '''C-26'''

: This figure is a [[repaint]] of ''[[Beast Wars (toyline)|Beast Wars]]'' [[Prowl (G1)|Prowl]].

* '''Lio Junior''' (Basic, 1998)
**''Japanese ID number:'' '''C-26'''

: A redeco of the above toy, only with a red mane and black fur.

* '''Lio Junior''' (Basic, 1998)
** ''Japanese ID number:'' '''C-26'''

: A redeco of the original toy painted like his daddy.

* '''Magnaboss''' (Ultra, 1998)

{{charstub}}

==External links==
* [http://tfu.info/1998/Cybertron/LioJunior/liojunior.htm Lio Junior at TFU.info]

[[Category:Beast Wars II characters]]
[[Category:Beast Wars Neo characters]]
[[Category:Combiners]]
[[Category:Japanese-original characters]]
[[Category:Maximals]]

Lio Junior (BW)

2009-06-03T22:13:36Z

76.127.243.157: /* Beast Wars Neo cartoon */

{{factions|maximal}}
:''Lio Junior is a [[Maximal]] in the [[Beast Wars II (franchise)|Beast Wars II]] portion of the [[Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''

[[Image:Model-LioJunior.jpg|right|250px|thumb|Foreshadowing Optimus Minor.]]
'''Lio Junior''' is the "son" of [[Lio Convoy]], created by the influence of pure energy upon Lio Convoy’s [[Energon Matrix]]. Though Lio Convoy says little on the matter, Lio Junior considers him his daddy. He desperately tries his hardest to prove his worth to the other [[Maximal|Maximals]], but due to his age he garners little respect. He is very rash at times and often doesn’t think things through. Though in the end, he has a kind [[spark]] and only wants to be viewed as an equal among his Maximal peers.

He can combine with [[Skywarp (BWII)|Skywarp]] and [[Santon]] to form [[Magnaboss II|Magnaboss]].

==Fiction==
===Cartoon continuity===
====''Beast Wars II'' cartoon====
:''Voice actor:'' [[Yumiko Kobayashi]] (Japanese)

[[Image:Liojunior.jpg|left|180px|thumb|I'm crushing your head!]]
{{-}}
====''Beast Wars Neo'' cartoon====
Lio Junior never appeared in the Neo cartoon, except, arguably, as one-half of Gaia Lio Convoy.

===''Beast Wars II'' comic===
==Toys==
===Beast Wars===
* '''Lio Junior''' (Basic, 1998)
** ''Japanese ID number:'' '''C-26'''

: This figure is a [[repaint]] of ''[[Beast Wars (toyline)|Beast Wars]]'' [[Prowl (G1)|Prowl]].

* '''Lio Junior''' (Basic, 1998)
**''Japanese ID number:'' '''C-26'''

: A redeco of the above toy, only with a red mane and black fur.

* '''Lio Junior''' (Basic, 1998)
** ''Japanese ID number:'' '''C-26'''

: A redeco of the original toy painted like his daddy.

* '''Magnaboss''' (Ultra, 1998)

{{charstub}}

==External links==
* [http://tfu.info/1998/Cybertron/LioJunior/liojunior.htm Lio Junior at TFU.info]

[[Category:Beast Wars II characters]]
[[Category:Beast Wars Neo characters]]
[[Category:Combiners]]
[[Category:Japanese-original characters]]
[[Category:Maximals]]

Kup (G1)

2009-06-03T20:24:44Z

76.127.243.157: /* Madman The Transformers comic */

{{factions|autobot|autobotg2|eliteguard}}
{{disambig3|Kup}}
{{featured}}
:''Kup is an [[Autobot]] from the [[Generation 1 (franchise)|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''

[[Image:Kupg1.jpg|right|300px|thumb|"Four of me, and ya got a [[quartex]]. Speakin' of quartex, that reminds me of the time..."]]
'''Kup''' is a tough old coot. He's almost as old as rust, in fact, and he was plinking [[Decepticon]]s and [[Ick-Yak]]s with acid bursts from his trusty musket laser long before most of you turbo-revvin' young punks were born. In his day, lasers didn't ''need'' to use light; they did whatever they were told to do. And liked it.

He's probably had a thousand adventures, Kup has, and he'll be glad to relate a story of any one of them at any time to a willing audience. The [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobots]] love Kup's war stories, lapping it up like cheap [[Energon (fuel)|energon]], and don't seem to mind when he inadvertently leaves a piece out or changes the story between retellings. Old memory chips'll do that to you. Other Autobots can be less patient, and Kup finds this disrespectful and irritating. If there's one thing Kup dislikes, it's when young punks don't respect their elders. If they'd only listen, they might learn something. [[Hot Rod (G1)|Hot Rod]] is one of the worst offenders in this way, but he's a good lad-bot, and Kup will straighten him out sooner or later, even if it takes a tank of [[Sharkticon (G1)|Sharkticon]]s.

Occasionally, Kup's vast experience gets in his way. When a situation doesn't remind him of anything, he has trouble figuring out what to do. This doesn't happen very often though.

{{quote|The past is the greatest teacher.|Kup's original [[bio]] motto}}

:''Japanese name:'' '''Chear'''<ref>"Chear" is used twice in English on the Kup/Wheelie "Future Cybertrons" reissue, so is presumably the transliteration Takara currently favors.</ref> (チャー ''Chā'', except for "The Rebirth")
:''French-Canadian name:'' '''Kaisso'''
:''Hungarian name'': '''Kup''' — '''(Űr)Zsaru''' ["(Space)Cop"] in one of the dubs of ''The Movie''.)
:''Italian name'': '''Blitz''' / '''Char''' (''The Headmasters'' dub only)
:''Russian TV dub name'': '''Vorchoon''' ("Grumbler")

==Fiction==
===Cartoon continuity===
====Generation 1 cartoon====
:''Voice Actor:'' [[Lionel Stander]] → [[John Stephenson]] (English), [[Osamu Saka]] (Japanese), [[Carl Béchard]] (French Canadian)

[[Image:Chaos deathcrystalmines.jpg|left|230px|thumb|Worked in the coal mines twenty-two hours a day for just half a cent.]]

In his younger days, one hundred thousand years ago, Kup once found himself crash-landed on the planet [[Dread]], where he was stalked by an [[Ick-Yak]]. Although Kup was able to lure the creature into a swamp of [[quickmud]], he was then captured by the evil [[Orb]]s, who forced him to work in the [[death crystal]] mines of of [[Queeg Mountain]]. When the miners were attacked by [[Chaos (alien)|Chaos]], the creature on whose hide the crystals grew, Kup was afforded an opportunity to escape. Before exiting the mines, he quickly grabbed the key to the cell in which the other slaves were held... but before he could open the cell door, Chaos came roaring into the cavern. Petrified, Kup dropped the keys and fled, escaping with his life, and a guilt that would gnaw at him for millennia. {{storylink|Chaos (episode)|Chaos}}

Kup was stationed in another part of the galaxy while [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] and [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]]'s forces were battling on [[Earth]], but eventually joined up with the Earthbound Autobots when the Decepticons took over [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] in the early days of the 21st Century. {{storylink|Secret Files of Teletraan II}}

[[Image:Kup tale.jpg|right|230px|thumb|Matlooooooooock!]]

In 2005, Kup was supervising the erection of a security cordon at the foot of [[Lookout Mountain]] when the work was interrupted by an impetuous drive-through by [[Hot Rod (G1)|Hot Rod]]. Kup shook his finger at the adventure-seeking youth, vowing to straighten him out yet. Even Kup couldn't believe it, however, when mere minutes later, Hot Rod began firing upon the approaching [[Autobot shuttle]]. The shuttle had, in fact, been hijacked by the Decepticons, who immediately began pouring out of the craft and attacking [[Autobot City]]. Kup saved Hot Rod from being blasted by [[Blitzwing (G1)|Blitzwing]], and the pair then headed back towards the city, but they didn't move fast enough to avoid being trapped outside of the city's fortress-like defenses. Luckily, an attempted hull breach by the [[Insecticon (G1)|Insecticon]] opened a small hole in the city's blast doors, and Kup used [[Kickback (G1)|Kickback]]'s skull as a ramp to leap the gap and make it into the city safely.

[[Image:Tftm_launcherpush.jpg|left|230px|thumb|If only we had the additional strength of a small Earth boy to help us push this!]]

Once inside the city, Kup and Hot Rod joined [[Arcee (G1)|Arcee]] and [[Springer (G1)|Springer]] in shoving an explosives launcher into place to help defend against the might of [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]]. The battle continued through the night, but the arrival Optimus Prime the next day turned the tide and the Decepticons were defeated—but at a terrible price. Despite Kup's warnings, Hot Rod had interfered in Prime and Megatron's one-on-one battle, and had given the Decepticon leader the opening he needed to fatally wound Prime. Prime had used the last of his strength to dispatch Megatron, but as Kup and the other Autobots gathered around their fallen leader, Optimus Prime died, passing the [[Matrix of Leadership]] on to [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]].

[[Image:Tftm_kup_tells_story.jpg|230px|right|thumb|One way to get rid of them is to tell 'em stories that don't go anywhere.]]

Even as the Autobots began to pick up the pieces, they came under assault on two fronts. First, reports came in from their moonbases of a [[Unicron|monster planet]] that was bearing down on Cybertron; when Hot Rod eagerly announced that he was sure the Matrix could stop the creature, Kup was less than convinced, asking what the youth would know about it. The Autobots made quick preparations to join their comrades on Cybertron's moons, but just before they were able to board their shuttles, a group of new Decepticons led by the powerful [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]] launched another attack upon the ruins of Autobots City. Kup, Hot Rod and the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobots]] boarded one of the shuttles and hot-footed it into space. Once they were safely away, Kup passed the time during the trip by telling the Dinobots the tale of his encounter with another Ick Yak on [[Beta 4]]. The story was interrupted by the sudden arrival of the Decepticons, and while Kup's experience with the [[Shrikebat]]s of [[Dromedon]] allowed him to out-manoeuvre the villains' [[moleculon missile]]s, an attack by [[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]] crippled the shuttle and caused it to crash-land into an ocean on the planet [[Quintessa]]. Kup was set upon by a robotic squid, which tore off several of his limbs before Hot Rod was able to fight it off. Hot Rod gathered up all of Kup's pieces and put his friend back together again, but despite the fact that he managed to get rid of a burr on Kup's rotator, Kup was fairly insistent that Hot Rod had left a piece out.

[[Image:TFTM Kup beserker.jpg|left|230px|thumb|"Y'see, lad, I've been dismembering monsters since before you were a gleam in your protoform batch initiator's optic! Now fetch me some prune juice!"]]

Setting out to explore Quintessa and find the Dinobots, Kup and Hot Rod came across a herd of [[Allicon|strange transforming creatures]] which Kup attempted to placate with the [[universal greeting]] and some [[Energon (fuel)|energon]] goodies. Unfortunately, when the goodies ran out, so did the creatures' good nature, and Kup and Hot Rod were set upon, captured and dragged before the planet's rulers, the [[Quintesson]]s. The whole experience reminded Kup of the [[Niter Slave Mines]] on [[Golgonath Seven]], but Hot Rod didn't see what good the old-timer's experienced was doing them at that moment. Hurled into a jail cell to await trial, the pair met another captive named [[Kranix]], whose world had been consumed by the monster plant currently threatening Cybertron: a monster that Kranix told them was named [[Unicron]]. Sadly, Kranix soon met his end in the jaws of the Quintesson' [[Sharkticon (G1)|Sharkticons]], and Kup and Hot Rod were dropped into the creatures' pit soon after. The pair did not accept the Quintessons' judgement with gentle grace, however, and fought back against the Sharkticons, creating a whirlpool by driving around their watery pit and sweeping the fight to dry land. Kup tore off one of the Sharkticons' tails and used it as a mace, but the duo was in danger of being overwhelmed until the timely arrival of the Dinobots, who routed the Sharkticons and turned them against their Quintesson masters. With the aid of the Dinobots' new friend, [[Wheelie (G1)|Wheelie]], the team found a ship and reunited with their fellow Autobots on the planet of [[Junkion (planet)|Junk]]. There, Kup was able to talk a little TV with native [[Junkion]] leader [[Wreck-Gar (G1)|Wreck-Gar]], but even the levity the Junkions brought to the proceedings did not obscure the tragic news that Galvatron had stolen the Matrix from Ultra Magnus.

[[Image:Kup vehiclemode.jpg|right|thumb|275px|FM radio not included.]]

Proceeding on their way to Cybertron, the Autobots arrived just in time to witness Unicron transforming to robot mode and attacking their home planet – a sight so awesome that it left Kup speechless, unable to recall anything like it that he had ever seen. Ever eager, Hot Rod ploughed their ship straight into Unicron's eye, but was separated from the rest of the group on the fall through the chaos-bringer's interior. While Kup and the other Autobots battled against Unicron's internal defences, Hot Rod battled Galvatron (who had been betrayed Unicron and been swallowed in punishment) and reclaimed the Matrix from him, becoming the Autobots' new leader, Rodimus Prime. Rodimus unleashed the power of the Matrix, which began to destroy Unicron from within, and as the Autobots retreated from the planet-eater's exploding body, Kup congratulated Rodimus, claiming he had always known he had potential. In the wake of Unicron's destruction, the Autobots forced the Decepticons off of Cybertron and reclaimed the planet for their own. {{storylink|The Transformers: The Movie}}

[[Image:ffod_pitfall.jpg|left|275px|thumb|The year is nineteen-aught-six! The President is the divine Miss Sara Bernhardt! And all over America, people were doing a dance called the "Funky Grandpa"!]]

Appointed as [[Chief of Security]] for Cybertron, Kup accompanied Rodimus Prime and the other Autobots to the opening of the [[Galactic Olympics]], only for the ceremony to be attacked by a commando squad of mysterious shadowy figures. The raiders captured Kup, Ultra Magnus and [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Spike Witwicky]] and took them back to their masters, {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 1}} who turned out to be the Quintessons. This time around, the aliens interrogated Kup a lot more thoroughly, questioning him on the state of Cybertron's security and meticulously analyzing his responses, seeing through the sarcastic misdirection he attempted to throw back in their faces. After a failed attempt escape landed the trio in the Sharkticon pit, the end seemed inevitable, until a team of Autobots led by Rodimus Prime arrived in time to save them. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 2}} In retaliation, the Quintessons detonated a [[core bomb]] and blew up Quintessa, and the explosion hurled Kup and the Autobots through space to the planet [[Goo]]. As the Autobots struggled through the planet's sticky surface, they were set upon by a massive machine that swept the goo clean, and Kup was awestruck by Rodimus's single-handed attempt to stop the dangerous device. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 3}} As they continued on their gooey trek, the Autobots came under attack from Galvatron and the Decepticons, who had entered into an alliance with the Quintessons, but were whisked to safety by Wreck-Gar and the Junkions.

A short time later, back on Cybertron, a mayday request came through from a crippled shuttle requesting clearance to land. Unable to risk the lives on the humans that he believed were onboard, Kup allowed the shuttle to land... but as it approached Cybertron, it veered off course and crashed into the planet's central power facility, taking out power across the board. The shuttle had been a dupe perpetuated by the Decepticon/Quintesson alliance, which promptly invaded the planet. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 4}} In the ensuing battle, Rodimus and Kup were surprised when Blitzwing fell out of the sky in front of them, and begged them no to shoot. The [[Triple Changer]] revealed that the Quintessons had double-crossed the Decepticons, and had sent a team of Sharkticons into the depths of Cybertron to activate a [[large switch]] that would shut down all the Transformers. Rodimus and Blitzwing were unable to stop the switch being thrown, but Spike Witwicky was then able to destroy the mechanism and reactivate the Transformers, forcing the Quintessons to flee Galvatron's wrath. Kup stood by Rodimus's side as he announced their uneasy victory to the other Autobots. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 5}}

[[Image:Chaos_kup_vs_chaos.jpg|230px|right|thumb|"You're homely as a mule's butt!"]]

The past came back to haunt Kup when he was called in to investigate a Decepticon attack on the [[Earth Defense Command]] post on Goo. Discovering that the attack had been perpetrated using death crystals, Kup was finally forced to return to planet Dread to stop the Decepticons' plan to destroy Cybertron using a death crystal cannon. Venturing into the mines alone, through swarms of [[shrikebat]]s, Kup located Chaos in the depths of the mountain and lured him back to the surface, taunting him all the way. Before exiting the mines, Kup freed all the slaves, and in turn, they helped him to re-aim the Decepticons' cannon, pointing it right at Chaos at the monster emerged from the tunnels. Kup pulled the trigger, blasting Chaos with its own death crystals and finally destroying it. With his demons laid to rest, the high-spirited Kup spent the journey back to Cybertron tell his comrades of the time he flew the shuttle [[Jonagar]] in the mouth of a space-whale. {{storylink|Chaos (episode)|Chaos}}

[[Image:Darkawakening_kup_fires.jpg|215px|left|thumb|"Ah, can't get a good sarsaparilla like this back in Iacon. It angries up the blood." "Heh, you like it, huh?" "Up yours!"]]

Kup was among a team of Autobots who were caught off-guard by the Decepticons while travelling through space in a shuttle, and were forced to dock their damaged craft at the giant mausoleum the Autobots had constructed to hold the bodies of those who had died in the [[Great War (G1)|Great War]]. There, they were shocked to discover that Optimus Prime had apparently returned to life, only to find themselves suddenly betrayed by their old leader when he set the mausoleum on a collision course with a sun and escaped aboard a spaceship of his own. The Autobots quickly improvised a ship of their own before the mausoleum was destroyed, which Kup piloted back to Cybertron. Upon their returned, it was discovered that "Optimus Prime" was merely a robotic zombie, animated as part of a Quintesson plan to destroy the Autobots, forcing Rodimus Prime to defeat him in battle. His true personality re-emerging as he neared death again, Optimus seemingly sacrificed himself, getting the other Autobots to safety and triggering the Quintessons' explosive trap. {{storylink|Dark Awakening}}

When a survey mission led by Perceptor sent out an SOS, Kup responded with Rodimus Prime, [[Pipes]] and the [[Aerialbot (G1)|Aerialbots]]. The team fought off the Quintessons occupying the asteroid, and discovered that the aliens had been attempting to alter history using a [[Time Window]]. Most of Perceptor's team had vanished through the portal into Cybertron's distant past, and Kup and the others fought off a Quintesson attempt to reclaim the asteroid while their teammates were returned to the present. {{storylink|Forever Is a Long Time Coming}}

The arrival of an Autobot named [[Sandstorm (G1)|Sandstorm]] on Cybertron gave Kup cause for concern, as the newcomer claimed to be from the planet [[Paradron]], which Kup was unable to locate on any star charts. A lie detector confirmed the truth of Sandstorm's story, however, and the Autobots rallied to save his world from the Decepticons. {{storylink|Fight or Flee}} Soon after, when Kup discovered that a team of Decepticons had been able to sneak their way past Cybertron defences, he, Rodimus, Magnus and the [[Aerialbot (G1)|Aerialbots]] headed out to force the villains off the planet. {{storylink|Starscream's Ghost}}

[[Image:Gitm_kup_and_screamer.jpg|right|thumb|I ain't afraid of no ghost!]]

While making a security inspection of Autobot City on Earth, Kup was impressed by the work [[Blaster (G1)|Blaster]] had been doing in his absence. Blaster's choice of music, however, still rattled his transistors. During Kup's visit, Autobot City was attacked by [[Scourge (G1)|Scourge]] and the ghost of [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]]. They did serious damage to [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]], stealing his eyes and then blowing up a bomb inside his brain. Hopefully, Kup didn't mark that up in his report as a strike against Blaster. {{storylink|Ghost in the Machine}}

[[Image:Ditd_vampire_kup_and_springer.jpg|250px|left|thumb|Kup gives the phrase "going grey" a whole new meaning.]]

Alongside Rodimus Prime, Ultra Magnus, Blaster and [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]], Kup headed to Junkion to investigate a strange hypnotic television signal that was coming from the planet. On their way, they were attacked by [[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]], [[Scourge (G1)|Scourge]] and the [[Sweep]]s and crashed on an asteroid, where Kup helped draw the Decepticons off so that Magnus could repair the damage done to Omega Supreme. The team voyaged on to Junkion, where they stopped the hypnotic broadcast. {{storylink|The Big Broadcast of 2006}} Not long after, Kup was among the Transformers who fell victim to the energy-draining touch of the [[Trans-Organic]] [[Dweller]], becoming an [[energy vampire]] who menaced the other Autobots until Perceptor restored them to normal with a surge of energon. {{storylink|The Dweller in the Depths}}

Kup was working out of Autobot City on Earth when Rodimus Prime, Ultra Magnus, Springer and Arcee went missing investigating the human terrorist, [[Victor Drath]]. Unbeknownst to Kup, the crime lord transplanted the four Autobots' minds into human-like [[synthoid]] bodies, and when the humanized Arcee attempted to get his attention near the entrance of Autobot City, he just drove on by.{{storylink|Only Human}}

[[Image:Grimnewbrain_kup_vs_sintwin.jpg|right|thumb|Kup was answering the Liar's Paradox before it became popular.]]

When the Autobots all began experiencing malfunctions following the activation of Cybertron's newest power generator, Kup was part of the team that ventured below the planet's surface to investigate the cause. The source of the malfunctions was discovered to be [[anti-electron]]s snuck into the generator by the Decepticons, which began to affect Kup's mind, leaving his much vaunted memory of past adventures so badly scrambled that he couldn't even remember who he was or where they were. The generator was shut down, but the Autobots soon deduced that the anti-electrons had come from Unicron, and followed the Decepticons to the planet-eater's decapitated head to stop them from acquiring more. Once they arrived on Unicron's head, the anti-electrons began affecting them once more, but Kup fought off their influence long enough to hold his own against [[Sinnertwin]]. The Decepticons were then routed by the [[Technobot]]s, new Autobots created by [[Grimlock (G1)|Grimlock]] using the super-intelligence the anti-electrons had given him. {{storylink|Grimlock's New Brain}}

Running the security center on Cybertron, Kup detected the cataclysmic arrival of [[Tornedron]] shortly before the energy creature devoured all energy on the planet, leaving every Autobot completely inert. Only a small group of [[Primitive]]s from both factions managed to reach the creature's creator, [[Primacron]], and reverse the process. {{storylink|Call of the Primitives}}

[[Image:Bhtb_kup_and_rodimus.jpg|left|thumb|Kup is apparently a chickenhawk. I mean, look at that butt!]]

During a series of missions in Japan, Kup could see the burden of leadership weighing heavily on Rodimus Prime's shoulders. Kup tried to teach him about the Japanese concept of ''giri'', the "burden hardest to bear", but Rodimus departed to blow off some steam on his own, and Kup recognized that it was a problem Rodimus would have to resolve for himself. Unfortunately, Rodimus was attacked by the [[Stunticon]]s and had the Matrix stolen, which then wound up in the clutches of Scourge, who led a Decepticon attack on Tokyo. Kup face off against the Matrix-powered Decepticon, but was hit by energy beams that left him convulsing. Luckily, Hot Rod made peace with his ''giri'' and arrived in time to defeat Scourge and reclaim the Matrix. Kup sagely noted that regardless of who held the Matrix, that missing part of himself that Rodimus had discovered would always be with him. {{storylink|The Burden Hardest to Bear}}

[[Image:Roop_kup_and_prime.jpg|right|250px|thumb|"Optimus Prime is not a Communist. He may be a liar, a pig, an idiot, a Communist, but he is not a porn star."]]

When the Autobots learned that Optimus Prime might still be alive, Kup was part of an enormous task force assembled by Rodimus Prime to retrieve Optimus's body from the treacherous human scientists who had taken possession of it. While Ultra Magnus and Rodimus led several team members inside the laboratory, Kup remained outside on guard with [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]], Wheelie, and several others. The situation turned deadly when the scientists unleashed space spores that induced a [[Hate Plague]] among the Autobots. The Aerialbots were among the first exposed, and Kup's team soon had to face off against a crazed [[Superion (G1)|Superion]]. They suffered serious damage and were taken off-line but, as a silver lining, also managed to escape contamination. {{storylink|The Return of Optimus Prime, Part 1}} As his last order before he too was lost to the plague, Rodimus Prime had Sky Lynx locate a Quintesson, who was put to work restoring Optimus Prime to life at last. At Prime's instruction, the Quintesson repaired Kup and the rest of his team, and the group then headed for the Decepticons' base on [[Chaar]] to recover a heat-resistant alloy the villains had stolen. Battling through the dangers of Chaar's native wildlife, the Autobots were able to recover the alloy, but not before Kup and most of his team were infected by the Hate Plague. Optimus Prime subsequently used the alloy to shield himself from the plague's effect and recovered the Matrix from Rodimus Prime, then released its wisdom to cure the madness of the spores. A cured Kup and Hot Rod watched as Optimus Prime and Galvatron shook hands, as the Decepticon leader declared there would be no war that day. {{storylink|The Return of Optimus Prime, Part 2}}

[[Image:Rebirth_targetmaster_torture.jpg|225px|left|thumb|"We sentence you to death! By snu-snu!"]]

Galvatron's promise did not last long, unfortunately. Kup was on Cybertron when the Decepticons launched a massive assault on Autobot City on Earth and stole the [[key to the Plasma Energy Chamber|key]] to the [[Plasma energy|Plasma Energy Chamber]] , but word of the attack soon reached Cybertron as the Decepticon bore down on the planet. During the ensuing conflict, Kup and a team of other Autobot boarded a shuttle and pursued Scourge into the depths of the planet, but when Scourge used the key to momentarily open the Plasma Energy Chamber, the energy released blasted the Autobots' shuttle across the galaxy. The ship crashed on the planet [[Nebulos]], which reminded Kup of the time he was stranded on [[Regulon Four]] and faced off against the planet's native [[Regulon metalmonger|metalmongers]]. The Autobots were soon captured by a rebel cell of native Nebulans, who believed them to agents of the planet's evil rulers, the [[Hive (G1)|Hive]], but the Autobots were able to convince them that they were on the side of the angels when the Decepticons followed them to Nebulos and attacked. {{storylink|The Rebirth, Part 1}}

[[Image:Rebirth_kup_and_recoil.jpg|right|thumb|When 900 years old you reach, look as good you will not.]]

During the battle that resulted, Kup, Hot Rod, Blurr, [[Pointblank]], [[Crosshairs (G1)|Crosshairs]] and [[Sureshot (G1)|Sureshot]] were captured by the Decepticons and tortured for information about the location of the Plasma Energy Chamber key. Kup and his comrades were soon rescued by the other Autobots, who had bonded with the Nebulons rebels to become powerful "[[Headmaster (technology)|Headmasters]]", and soon decided to undergo a variation of this bonding process themselves, becoming "[[Targetmaster]]s". By the time Optimus Prime finally tracked his warriors to Nebulos and arrived to join them, Kup had been bonded to the Nebulan Recoil, and was the first to display his new powers to the shocked Prime. Alas, even with this added power, the Autobots were unable to prevent the Decepticons from stealing back the Plasma Energy Chamber key. {{storylink|The Rebirth, Part 2}}

Pursuing the Decepticons back to Cybertron, Kup delivered the shocking report to his fellow Autobots that the planet itself had disappeared. The Decepticons had, in fact, moved it into Earth's orbit, where Galvatron intended to open the Plasma Energy Chamber and overload the sun, destroying both planets in one fell swoop. As the chamber was opened, Kup and all the other Transformers on the planet were disabled by its energy, but thankfully, Spike Witwicky and the Autobots' Nebulan partners were able to stop the process and use the energy to revitalize Cybertron, bring about a new Golden Age for the planet. {{storylink|The Rebirth, Part 3}}
{{-}}

====Madman ''The Transformers'' comic====
[[Image:Madman comic HotRod sigh.jpg|left|150px|thumb|"You're gonna be the death of that guy, you know?"]]
In the year 2001, the Decepticons had managed to conquer Cybertron completely. Before Optimus Prime left to lead the evacuation of the remaining Autobots on their home planet, he told Ultra Magnus about his intention to hide the Autobot Matrix of Leadership at a not-so-secret bunker on the construction site of the future Autobot City on Earth. The Decepticon [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]] and his array of [[Decepticon Mini-Cassette]]s managed to spy on meeting and moved to capture the Autobot relic for the Decepticon cause, but fortunately that young lad Hot Rod foiled their dastardly and vague plans. Upon arriving on Earth, Kup was present when Hot Rod returned the Matrix to Optimus, and explained the strange Matrix-induced vision he received, to which Optimus Prime commented that perhaps Hot Rod's destiny was greater than the young Autobot realised. Kup had a decidedly different opinion, however. {{storylink|The Transformers (Madman)|The Transformers}}
{{-}}

====Japanese cartoon continuity====
{{note|The events of the Generation 1 cartoon occur in Japanese animated continuity as described above, except that the events of "The Rebirth" do not occur. Additionally, this continuity moves the events of 2006 to 2010, and inserts several additional events into the newly-created intervening years.}}

=====''Story of the Super Robot Lifeforms: The Transformers''=====

[[Image:Kup_g1manga.jpg|right|thumb]]
Responding to an SOS from deep space, a team of Autobots including Kup helped rescue a human spacecraft from the jaws of a shaceship-eating Decepticon vessel. {{storylink|The Story of Super Robot Lifeforms: The Transformers issue 1|The Story of Super Robot Lifeforms: The Transformers #1}}

When the Autobots were attacked by the [[Megatron Military]], Kup was decidedly puzzled, as he had understood that Megatron had been recreated as Galvatron. The Megatrons proved to be tough opponents, and Kup and the other Autobots encouraged Rodimus to get away to safety while they held the Megatrons back, but the Autobot leader refused. Soon, it was discovered that one of the Megatrons was Galvatron in disguise, who was remote-controlling the duplicate Megatrons himself. Rodimus dispatched Galvatron, and the Megatrons lost power, allowing Kup and [[Springer (G1)|Springer]] to make short work of them. {{storylink|The Story of Super Robot Lifeforms: The Transformers issue 2|The Story of Super Robot Lifeforms: The Transformers #2}}

After Ultra Magnus and Metroplex repelled an attack on Autobot City, Kup was among the Autobots who came to Earth to congratulate their efforts. {{storylink|The Story of Super Robot Lifeforms: The Transformers issue 3}} Later, Kup was part of the Autobot team who travelled to the planet [[Feminia]] to defend its [[Prime Energy]] against a Decepticon attack. Kup deduced that the villains would deploy [[Predaking]] to steal the energy, and he was right, but thankfully, arrival of the [[Omnibot]]s won the day. {{storylink|The Story of Super Robot Lifeforms: The Transformers issue 5|The Story of Super Robot Lifeforms: The Transformers #5}}
{{-}}
=====''The Great Transformer War''=====
Kup watched the battle between the upgraded [[Abominus]] and [[Computron]], {{storylink|The Great Transformer War issue 2|The Great Transformer War #2}} then later joined Hot Rod, Springer and the resurrected Optimus Prime in battling Galvatron, Cyclonus, Scourge and the Sweeps in space shortly after Prime was resurrected. {{storylink|The Great Transformer War issue 3|The Great Transformer War #3}}

=====''The Headmasters'' cartoon=====
:''Voice actor:'' [[Osamu Saka]]

[[Image:kup_and_fortress.jpg|left|240px|thumb|"I'm gonna get me a job! A real Malibu...and see if Stacy... can help... invent... me... young... Help!"]]

In 2011, one year after Optimus Prime's resurrection, Kup was stationed on Cybertron when [[Vector Sigma]] began to destabilize as a result of the release of the Matrix's energy. Exploiting the opening, the Decepticons invaded the planet, and, at Optimus Prime's command, Kup withdrew to the Autobots' secondary headquarters on the planet [[Athenia]]. This sudden, violent re-ignition of the Transformers' war stirred four-million-year-old memories in Kup, but Spike stopped him before he got started by informing that this wasn't a time when thinking of the past was going to do any good. {{storylink|Four Warriors Come out of the Sky}} As it turned out, the past ''did'' play a major role in winning the battle, when a mysterious spaceship arrived carrying new Autobot warriors who helped turned the tide of the battle. These new "Headmasters" were led by a robot named [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress]], who turned out to be an old friend of Kup's who had left Cybertron four million years ago to escape the war. {{storylink|The Mystery of Planet Master}}

[[Image:Headmasters_threestooges.jpg|240px|right|thumb|Blurr considers the wisdom of his decision to let Kup sleep with his [[Arcee (G1)|girlfriend]]]]

Kup stayed on Athenia with [[Arcee (G1)|Arcee]], [[Blurr (G1)|Blurr]], Wheelie and [[Daniel Witwicky (G1)|Daniel]] while the other Autobots began searching across Earth for the Matrix, which had been hidden away by Optimus Prime, but which would be necessary to stabilize Vector Sigma. Kup recalled the battle on Feminia and told the other Autobots to trust in Hot Rod – and Kup's trust was not misplaced, as Hot Rod and the Headmasters soon had the Matrix in their hands. Kup's team returned to Cybertron to monitor Vector Sigma as its condition grew worse, but alas, before Hot Rod (now Rodimus Prime once again) could use the Matrix to stabilize the computer, Optimus Prime sacrificed himself by merging with it to bring it back under control. {{storylink|Birth of the Fantastic Double Prime}}

Kup later conferred with Rodimus Prime on the Decepticons' new weapon, the [[Madmachine]], and tried to help console the [[Autobot Mini-Cassette]]s over the loss of [[Blaster (G1)|Blaster]]. {{storylink|The Great Cassette Operation}} Not long after, when Athenia was threatened by the Deceptiocons' metal-warping meteor, [[Metamorpho]], Kup hit upon the idea of sending a human to disable the space-rock, as they would be unaffected by its powers. {{storylink|Approach of the Demon Meteorite}}

Rodimus Prime was on a mission to Earth when an SOS from the planet [[Praum]] reached Kup, Arcee and Blurr on Athenia, reminding Kup of several times in the past when the Decepticons deliberately attacked when the Autobots were without a commander. Kup was eager to go into battle on Praum alongside the Headmasters, but they encouraged him to stay behind and guard Athenia with Blurr and Arcee. {{storylink|The Four-Million-Year-Old Veil of Mystery}}

[[Image:Headmasters_rodimus_kup_blurr.jpg|240px|left|thumb|You...shall not...PASS!]]

When the Decepticons launched a massive attack on Cybertron in order to obtain a new alloy created by Vector Sigma named [[Cybertonuron]], Kup and Arcee leapt into action, but were held up from joining the battle when they had to stop to pull Blurr free of the chair he'd managed to get stuck in. They soon made it to Cybertron, however, and watched from the sidelines as Rodimus battled Galvatron. {{storylink|Cybertron Is in Grave Danger, Part 1}} When Galvatron broke off the fight, Rodimus and Kup withdrew to debate strategy with Fortress, but the bad news kept on coming: [[Chromedome (G1)|Chromedome]] reported in to inform them that the Decepticon had planted bombs at the core of Cybertron which would destroy the planet within ten minutes. With no possible recourse, the Autobots evacuated Cybertron just before the bombs detonated, reducing the planet to a burnt-out husk. Deciding that the age of his generation had come to an end, Rodimus Prime passed the mantle of [[Supreme Commander]] to Fortress and prepared to embark on a mission to find a new planet on which the Transformers could make their home. Kup and Blurr announced that they would accompany Rodimus on his mission, and the trio departed for space. {{storylink|Cybertron Is in Grave Danger, Part 2}}

{{Note|Whether or not Kup, Rodimus and Blurr succeeded in their mission is never explicitly revealed. While Rodimus returns in the [[The Headmasters issue 8|final issue]] of the [[The Headmasters (manga)|''Headmasters'' manga]], Kup does not reappear.}}

=====''15 Go! Go!''=====
[[Image:TGGKup.jpg|right|100px|thumb|"I'm a crazy old man! Pay attention to me!"]]
While on her journey through time and space, [[Teletraan 15]] found herself in a future era where she was harassed by a feisty Wheelie. Kup—now bonded to Recoil—came to the rescue, grabbing Wheelie by the scruff of the neck and tossing him away. As Teletraan 15 looked up at him with sparkly eyes and thanked him for his help, he claimed he recognized her and gave her a big old spine-cracking hug. As Kup started rambling about some past encounter they had supposedly had with giant Ick-Yaks, Teletraan 15's sarcastic partner, [[Teletraan 10]], boggled over the sheer scientific illogicality of Kup's "musket laser", unable to comprehend how something that shot acid could be classified as a laser. Suddenly, Kup realized that he actually had ''no idea'' who Teletraan 15 was, and drove off. {{storylink|15 Go! Go!|15 Go! Go! Chapter 4}}
{{-}}

===Marvel Comics continuity===
====Generation 1====
{{note|Events from the [[The Transformers (Marvel Comics)|UK-only]] comic stories are in italics.}}
Kup and a platoon of Autobots were feeling pretty good about their mission on [[Deneb IV]] when suddenly the entire platoon was nearly washed away by a surprise Decepticon attack of acid rain. {{storylink|The Desert Island of Space!}}

[[Image:KupsStoryKup01.jpg|right|200px|thumb|"It all started back in nineteen dickety-two. We had to say 'dickety' 'cause the [[Liokaiser|Kaiser]] had stolen our word 'twenty'. I chased that rascal to get it back, but gave up after dickety-six miles..."]]
''Several hundred years ago, Kup became afflicted with [[combat fatigue]], a loss of nerves and will brought on by too many millions of years of non-stop fighting. Considering himself a liability to the Autobot cause, Kup went into "retirement", wandering space alone in his starship, waiting for the end eventually to take him. He was shaken out of his misery when he crossed paths with a pair of [[Tyroxian]] [[Tyroxian space transport|fighters]] attempting to destroy a lone spacecraft. Spurred into action, Kup disabled the pursuers and brought the hunted pilot on-board, and was surprised to finding he was a fellow Autobot named Hot Rod. Hot Rod was thrilled to have found aid and eagerly tried to recruit Kup into helping him return to [[Tyroxia]] and save his comrade [[Blurr (G1)|Blurr]], but Kup wasn't interested in getting involved any further, and he only agreed to take Hot Rod back to Cybertron. The young punk reprogrammed the ship's navigation computers, though, and landed on Tyroxia to rescue Blurr by himself. Kup was finally shaken out of his funk when he realized that Hot Rod represented everything he used to be, and he single-handedly saved Hot Rod and Blurr from their Tyroxian tormentors. His fighting spirit restored, Kup returned to Cybertron with the two Autobots and joined [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]]'s troops alongside his new allies. {{storylink|Kup's Story!}}''

[[Image:RingofHate-Kup.jpg|left|thumb|250px|"I'll cry when I'm done killing!"]]

When Fortress Maximus became disheartened by the never-ending cycle of violence on Cybertron, he made plans to escape the war and set up a new life on the planet [[Nebulos]]. Though Kup's actions had become a violent mirror of their so-called enemies, he and many of his top warriors chose to follow their leader to this new world aboard the starship ''[[Steelhaven]]''. Tragically, a series of incidents and misunderstandings brought the Autobots and Nebulans to the brink of war within days of their arrival. Kup, forgetting why he had traveled there to begin with, was very happy to return fire, and was only stopped by Fortress Maximus himself. They retreated, and in a desperate attempt to show their true intentions, Fort Max, Kup and several others disarmed themselves in front of the Nebulan gates. Furthermore, Fortress Maximus and four of his lieutenants beheaded themselves and agreed to leave their lifeless heads and bodies, as well as their various weapons, in Nebulan custody so that serious peace talks could be conducted. {{storylink|Ring of Hate!}}

[[Image:BrothersinArmor-Targetmasters.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Pretty sure this breaks Nebulos's concealed weapons laws!]]

Kup helped build an Autobot camp in a forest clearing during Fortress Maximus's absence. Soon, their camp was visited by Nebulan representatives from the [[Council of Peers]] interested in learning more about their interplanetary visitors, and Kup was glad to oblige. But one of the representatives, [[Zarak (Nebulan)|Lord Zarak]], used the meeting as an opportunity to contact the Autobots' enemies, the Decepticons. {{storylink|Broken Glass!}}

Matters quickly deteriorated after the arrival of the Decepticons, and two factions of Nebulans joined with both Autobots and Decepticons through bio-mechanical engineering to become [[Headmaster (technology)|Headmasters]]. Events turned against the Autobots as Lord Zarak, who had binary-bonded to Decepticon leader [[Scorponok (G1)|Scorponok]], was able to sway public opinion in favor of the Decepticons, labeling the Autobots as renegades and taking their Headmasters prisoner. Some Nebulans remained loyal to Fortress Maximus's partner, [[Galen]], and traveled to the Autobot camp to forge an alliance. Making use of a new form of bio-mechanical engineering, Kup and the other weaponless Autobots were teamed with Nebulan Targetmasters to replace their lost guns. Kup personally was teamed with Recoil. As the conflict continued, though, both camps of Nebulans began to realize the devastation they were causing to their homeworld, and they decided to leave Nebulos and travel to Earth in search of other Transformers. {{storylink|Brothers in Armor!!}}

[[Image:Kupdesertisland.jpg|left|100px|thumb|Kup finds a new young upstart to latch onto.]]

When Galen died on Earth and his role as Fortress Maximus's Headmaster partner was assumed by [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Spike Witwicky]], Spike led Kup and the other Targetmasters on a mission to the [[Club Con|Decepticon's island headquarters]] to rescue his brother, [[Buster Witwicky]]. Kup voiced bad feelings about the rescue mission, especially about Spike's suitability to lead the mission. However, when Spike continued fighting despite repeated setbacks, Kup admitted that although Spike brought too much sentiment into the battle, he backed his emotionalism with guts. {{storylink|The Desert Island of Space!}} Soon, Fortress Maximus's Autobots met up with the Earth-bound Autobots led by [[Grimlock (G1)|Grimlock]], and somehow the two Autobot camps wound up witnessing a battle between Grimlock and [[Blaster (G1)|Blaster]] for Autobot leadership. Kup, along with the Autobots from both camps, began to watch this battle on Earth's [[Moon (moon)|moon]] when [[Ratbat (G1)|Ratbat]]'s Decepticons unleashed a surprise attack. {{storylink|Totaled!}}

After Optimus Prime's return, Kup took over as Prime's head of security aboard the Ark. When Prime took most of the Autobots to Earth to defend [[MacDill Air Force Base]] from the [[Micromaster]] [[Air Strike Patrol]], Kup and the other Autobots who remained on board the Ark were defeated by [[Blackjack]]. Kup was the first to reawaken, however he startled Blackjack as he was arming a series of explosive charges, and the explosives were regrettably armed. {{storylink|All the Familiar Faces!}} The countdown could not be stopped, but Kup refused to jettison themselves from the Ark, leaving their fallen comrades in the med bay to die. But an answer presented itself when Ratchet contacted them from Cybertron, as he had been kidnapped by Megatron. Ratchet orchestrated a trans-dimensional gate to send the explosives to Megatron's headquarters on Cybertron, which saved Kup and everyone else on board, but seemed to have killed both Ratchet and Megatron. {{storylink|Skin Deep}}

Optimus Prime was hit hard by Ratchet's death, which alarmed Hot Rod and caused Kup to worry about the future of their cause. Subsequently, when Prime walked out on the Autobots, Kup was incredibly alarmed, but not as much as when he learned Hot Rod had a "plan" to win Prime back. Hot Rod let loose a [[Mark V Guardian droid]] on the ship, which he secretly controlled, but it turned on its master and Kup and the others were brutally attacked. To Hot Rod's credit, this did jolt Prime to his senses, though Kup was probably too damaged to "thank" him. {{storylink|Yesterday's Heroes!}}

''While Kup spent some down time with Hot Rod and a few others, the Ark was attacked by [[Thunderwing (G1)|Thunderwing]] and his acolytes! Kup helped repel the intruders, who were seeking revenge on [[Nightbeat (G1)|Nightbeat]] and [[Siren]]. {{storylink|Assault on the Ark!}}''

The [[Matrix Quest]] resulted in the Decepticon [[Thunderwing (G1)|Thunderwing]] being possessed by the [[Matrix of Leadership|Creation Matrix]] and running amok in the Ark's docking bay. Kup and two other Autobots tried to sneak up on Thunderwing as he accosted Optimus Prime, but Thunderwing had grown too omniscient by then, and Kup was noticed and forced to retreat. After Thunderwing and the Matrix were jettisoned off the Ark, Kup was helped up off the ground by another Autobot. {{storylink|All Fall Down (issue)|All Fall Down}}

[[Image:Kuppriceoflife.jpg|right|150px|thumb|Experience, lad. You'll learn to appreciate it.]]

During one of Kup's sweeps of the Ark, he caught Grimlock trying to swipe the bodies of his fallen Dinobots from their life support pods. Grimlock cold-cocked him and escaped with the bodies in a [[All-Terrain Turbo-Transport|stolen shuttle]]. {{storylink|Eye of the Storm!}} Kup recovered to find a monster forged from the bodies of [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]] and [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]], which Optimus Prime refused to kill. It fell on Kup to tell Optimus his decisions were causing him to lose the support of the Autobots, and Prime's recently-announced decision to surrender to Scorponok didn't help things either. Kup reasoned that even if there was some part of Ratchet still inside the creature, Ratchet himself would not want to go on living in this fashion. Prime refused to kill the creature, but when Kup told him that the creature's unchecked destruction could end up destroying the Ark and everyone on board, Prime reluctantly had a change of heart. However, when it came down to it, Prime couldn't pull the trigger, and despite the objections of Kup and the others, he ordered them separated, even though it would mean Megatron would live. {{storylink|The Price of Life!}}

[[Image:Surrender-Kuptruck.jpg|left|100px|thumb|He's a pic'''kup''' truck, get it?]]

As planned, Prime surrendered his troops to Scorponok on the terms that they would consider an alliance against [[Unicron]]. Kup didn't take this very well, and when he was laughed at while surrendering [[Recoil|his weapon]], he lashed out at [[Apeface]] before being stopped by Prime. Kup told him he once knew an Optimus Prime who would have found another way, a Prime that would never ever surrender. [[Misfire]] was happy to interrupt this argument so that he could escort Kup to his cell. But Prime quickly grew restless in his own cell and, having disposed of [[Soundwave (G1)|his guard]], he tracked down Kup and Hot Rod and asked them for his help. Though Hot Rod leaped at the chance, Kup was not so easily won back. Prime pleaded with him at length, explaining that as a warrior race that had battled for millions of years, that surrender would actually take the most courage of all! Realizing Prime was right, Kup agreed to help him and Hot Rod storm Lord Zarak's chambers. As Hot Rod grabbed Zarak, Kup sideswiped Scorponok's guard, [[Bludgeon (G1)|Bludgeon]], in vehicle mode, but transformed too close to Scorponok's body, so Zarak ordered it to grip its claw around his head. Kup told Hot Rod not to spare Zarak for his sake, but Prime stopped them both, insisting that each faction had to trust each other if they were to survive against Unicron. Zarak was persuaded, but before a handshake would have sealed the deal, the Decepticons' underground base collapsed in on itself as a rogue group of Decepticons led by [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] and [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] attacked above. {{storylink|Surrender!}}

[[Image:EdgeofExtinction-survivors.jpg|right|thumb|150px|"Hey, Kup, you ever see anything like this before?" "Yeah, a movie. 1986. Starred Leonard Nimoy."]]

As the dust settled, Kup asked Prime if their truce meant they should be helping gather the Decepticons' wounded. Prime told him and [[Highbrow (G1)|Highbrow]] to instead focus on briefing the other Autobots as they emerged fromt he wreckage and containing the growing battle so that it would not spill out into [[New York City]]. {{storylink|...All This and Civil War 2}} Things naturally escalated out of hand, and so Kup had the bright idea to enlist the Decepticon hypnotist [[Mindwipe]] at gunpoint, and had him "convince" his fellow Decepticons to lay down their arms for the greater good. This was working swimmingly until suddenly Kup and every other Transformer on Earth was suddenly raptured away to Cybertron. {{storylink|Out of Time!}} Kup was startled to see their creator, [[Primus]], speaking to them through the body of [[Emirate Xaaron]]. Primus told Kup and the others of their eternal battle with Unicron, and of his imminent arrival. In response to this, [[Unicron cultist]]s rose up from amongst the Cybertronians to destroy Primus' chosen leader, Optimus Prime, and Kup was more than happy to beat the cultists back into submission. They succeeded, but while Primus had begun lecturing his Transformers again, Kup's attention was elsewhere. He interrupted, wondering how exactly no one had noticed Unicron himself sneak up on the planet, clawed hand looming over their heads. {{storylink|The Void! (US)|The Void!}}

Kup and [[Getaway]] helped get Optimus Prime to safety, as their leader had succumbed to mysterious pain. Though Unicron ravaged the planet and destroyed countless Transformers, ultimately Optimus Prime sacrificed himself to destroy him, and Kup was among the lucky few who were still standing as Unicron's ashes fell to the planet's surface. {{storylink|On the Edge of Extinction!}} Kup and a handful of others found what was left of Optimus Prime's body, and he watched Prowl cradle their leader as he died. {{storylink|Still Life!}}

[[Image:EndOfTheRoad-finalfive.jpg|left|thumb|250px|Hey, these final five aren't Cylons at all!]]

Under the dubious leadership of Grimlock, the Autobots left their dying world and followed the Decepticons to [[Klo]], but the Decepticons were waiting for them. In the massacre that followed, Kup was among the final five Autobots who had eluded death. But he and the others did not avoid capture for long, as a team of Decepticons found them hiding in the swamps. Amazingly, they were able to overpower these Decepticons and return to the main battlegrounds, where Optimus Prime had returned to them in a new body, thanks to the [[Neo-Knights]] and the [[Last Autobot]]! With the Last Autobots' godlike resurrection powers, Kup and the other Autobots were able to overwhelm the Decepticons, who retreated like whipped dogs. The war was over, and Optimus Prime told them it was time to go home! {{storylink|End of the Road! (US)|End of the Road!}}

In an alternate future of 2009, the Autobots were overwhelmed by the forces of evil. Unicron consumed Cybertron utterly, and Earth came under heavy fire from Galvatron and his Decepticon legions. Kup and Blurr were personally executed by Cyclonus and Scourge. {{storylink|Rhythms of Darkness!}}
{{-}}

=====Marvel UK future timelines=====
{{quote|Will it work, Kup? I mean, 1986 seems like a long time ago!}}
{{quote|Yesterday, lad, just yesterday!|'''Hot Rod''' and '''Kup''' discuss their upcoming [[time travel]]|"[[Target: 2006]] part 6"}}

''In 2003, Kup was given the job of decoying the Decepticons over the plans for Autobot City. Ultra Magnus needed to get the plans to Earth's various governments unimpeded, while also taking steps to ensure the Decepticons would not get in the way of the Autobot efforts to build the city. So, he made an open and showy display of tasking Kup with being the courier that would bring the information to the humans. Sure enough, the Decepticon spy [[Ravage (G1)|Ravage]] overheard those plans and sent the [[Stunticon]]s out to intercept the old Autobot. Despite Hot Rod's good-intentioned efforts to stop them, the Stunticons made off with the fake plans, secure in their knowledge that they now knew the secrets of Autobot City. {{storylink|Ark Duty}} Kup was also present at the grand opening of the city a year later. {{storylink|Aspects of Evil!}}''

[[Image:Target2006-BlurrHotRodKup.jpg|right|thumb|350px|Is this the Fifties? Or nineteen-ninety-nine?]]

''After the attack on Autobot City in 2006, Kup, Hot Rod and Blurr received a psychic prodding from Unicron, alerting them to Galvatron's travel through the timestream back to 1986. Using Galvatron's own time-jump mechanisms, the Autobot trio followed him back into the past, mass-displacing [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]], [[Thundercracker (G1)|Thundercracker]] and [[Frenzy (G1)|Frenzy]] in the process. Apparently reaching an instinctive conclusion that Galvatron could never be returned to the future by force, Kup and his comrades conspired with the Ultra Magnus of 1986 to trick the Decepticon into returning of his own volition.''

''As Ultra Magnus kept Galvatron busy, the future trio made arrangements to discourage him from staying. When he returned to his base, Galvatron found his henchmen knocked unconscious and his super-weapon rigged to explode. Once it did, he was confronted with a taunting [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] claiming credit, and he was egged into blowing the treacherous Decepticon into smithereens. Believing Starscream's death at this juncture altered history, making his actions in 1986 part of an alternate timeline that wouldn't affect his own future, Galvatron reluctantly gave up his plans, picked up his goons, and returned to the future. Kup and his comrades, having successfully framed Starscream and driven Galvatron away, returned to 2006 themselves soon after. {{storylink|Target: 2006}}''

[[Image:KupUK114-01.jpg|left|200px|thumb|"Little known fact: I owned the first radio on Cybertron. T'weren't much on back then, just Shockwave reciting the alphabet over and over. 'A' he'd say. Then 'B'. 'C' would usually follow..."]]
''After Unicron was defeated in 2006 and Hot Rod rose to become [[Hot Rod (G1)|Rodimus Prime]], Galvatron went missing. Unable to accept the Decepticon leader was truly dead without seeing the body, Rodimus Prime went searching for him with Kup and Blurr. Unfortunately, his lax attention to Cybertron gave the new Decepticon commander, Shockwave, time to consolidate the army under his control and begin the war anew. Rodimus was forced to return to Cybertron empty-handed, and he only made matters worse when he rashly took out a 10,000-[[shanix]] reward for any bounty hunter who could find Galvatron for him. This led to a freelance peacekeeping agent named [[Death's Head]] traveling back in time to 1987, where he had learned Galvatron had escaped after the battle with Unicron. {{storylink|Wanted:Galvatron — Dead or Alive!}} Realizing that a trigger-happy mercenary messing with the timestream was just as dangerous as Galvatron could ever be, Rodimus arranged a time-jump to clean up his mess, taking Kup, Blurr and [[Wreck-Gar (G1)|Wreck-Gar]] back to 1987 along with him. {{storylink|Burning Sky!}}''

''In the past, the future Autobots once again found the 20th-century Ultra Magnus fighting with Galvatron, as the Decepticon leader attempted to extract vast amounts of energy from a volcano. Mere seconds after locating Galvatron and engaging him in combat, however, Kup and Blurr were knocked off-line when Galvatron hurled Ultra Magnus's beaten body at them. {{storylink|Hunters}} After regrouping, the Autobots concocted a plan to steal Galvatron's time-jump mechanism and rewire it to propel them all back to their proper place and time. While Kup and the others distracted Galvatron, Wreck-Gar and Rodimus Prime attempted to make the proper modifications. In the end, however, only the Autobots were launched back to the future; Galvatron had modified the device so that the temporal backlash did not affect him, and he stayed in the past. {{storylink|Fire on High!}}''

''In 2008, Kup was on hand to witness a full-scale Decepticon assault at Autobase on Cybertron. He fought alongside Rodimus Prime and the other Autobots and, when Rodimus traveled to the planet of [[Junkion (planet)|Junk]] to deal with Unicron (the cause behind the Decepticon offensive), Kup stepped up to lead the remaining Autobot forces alongside Ultra Magnus until [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]] sounded a retreat and the Decepticons fled. {{storylink|The Legacy of Unicron!}} Later that year, Autobot City was attacked by [[Quintesson]]s, and the deactivated Autobots were hung out on the outer walls as a warning for any would-be rescuers. Kup came to Earth with Rodimus Prime and crew to deal with the usurpers, and he led an advance team of Blurr, [[Smokescreen (G1)|Smokescreen]] and [[Wide Load]] in searching the complex. They were caught in a heated battle with the Quintessons' shock troopers, but managed to hold their own long enough for Roddy to reach the control center and activate [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]] himself. Resistance faltered rather quickly after that. {{storylink|Space Pirates!}}''

''As time passed, the long-term effects of Galvatron's presence in the past became overwhelming. A full-on time storm began brewing at both ends of the timeline, 1989 and 2009. In order to set the universe back on the right course, Rodimus Prime and Kup chose to travel back in time with Blurr, Arcee, Ultra Magnus and [[Red Alert (G1)|Red Alert]] to retrieve Galvatron. No, really, for sure this time. Problem was, this time their mass-displacement upon arrival took out 1989's Optimus Prime and several fellow Autobots, leading to more than a little consternation among their 20th-century counterparts. [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]], guided by his neophyte [[Headmaster (technology)|Headmaster partner]], [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Spike Witwicky]], jumped to the conclusion that Optimus was dead and led his Autobots into battle with Rodimus and his group. Kup didn't fare too well at trying to fight [[Grimlock (G1)|Grimlock]] hand-to-hand, but soon cooler heads prevailed, and the Autobots joined forces not only with each other, but with a pair of detachments from the 1989 and 2009 Decepticon camps as well.''

[[Image:KupMagnusTimeWars01.jpg|right|180px|thumb|"Kup has something you college boys don't: life experience! Tell 'em, Kup." "I spent 53 years as night watchman at a cranberry silo."]]
''As the various groups tracked down Galvatron, they were shocked to find that not only had he joined forces with Megatron, but that the two of them had laid waste to the Cybertronian teams of the Autobot [[Wrecker]]s and the Decepticon [[Mayhem Attack Squad]]. Kup joined Arcee and Ultra Magnus in trying to gun down Megatron, but was batted aside by the Decepticon's [[fusion cannon]] and lay unconscious, out of the battle for the rest of the conflict. Still, Galvatron was ultimately destroyed in battle with Optimus Prime and consumed wholly by the timestorm, restoring the timestream to a stable place. Kup and the other 2009 Autobots gathered together and prepared to return home to their lives. {{storylink|Time Wars}}''

''It didn't quite work out that way.''

''Back in 2009, the Autobots were horrified to find that Galvatron waited for them on Cybertron. It seemed the restoration of the timeline prevented Galvatron from having ever traveled back in time, and thus he had been present at the Decepticons' side for the last few years, which considerably altered the war effort in their favor. In the new 21st century, Galvatron and the Decepticons virtually controlled Cybertron, and only a few token bands of Autobot resistance remained on their home planet. Kup and the returnees adjusted as best they could, but the odds were hopelessly against them. The resistance on Cybertron ended when Galvatron and his men ransacked a resistance station, killing Blurr and the other Autobots present. Galvatron mutilated the corpses to drive Rodimus Prime into a killing frenzy, hoping to corrupt the [[Matrix of Leadership|Matrix]] itself through its host. Indeed, Kup and Arcee began experiencing fire in the depths of their souls before they managed to talk down Rodimus. The Autobots of Cybertron were then forced to flee the world entirely. {{storylink|Aspects of Evil!}}''

''On their voyage back to Earth and Autobot City, the Autobot shuttlecraft had just entered hyperspace when [[Pincher]] and [[Doubleheader]] alerted Kup to a problem: sabotage. Someone had killed a guard and torn up the engine room, damaging the guidance systems so that the ship would be flying blind when they came out of warp into who-knows-what. Sure enough, the ship materialized too close to Earth, and another bit of sabotage prevented the emergency retros from stopped their descent. It was going to be a heavy hit. What's worse, Kup's efforts to isolate the Decepticon life-signs of their saboteur turned up a nasty truth: No additional life signs were present on the shuttle. The saboteur was an Autobot! {{storylink|The Void! (UK)|The Void!}} After failing to locate Rodimus Prime during the time the sabotage was being committed, Kup had a sinking feeling and set up a ruse to test Prime. When Arcee left to try and enter the sealed retro room through the air vents, Kup told Rodimus she was actually going to sneak through the coolant tanks. Fortunately for their landing, Arcee succeeded just in time. Unfortunately for...well, everything else, Kup was right: Rodimus Prime was the saboteur, possessed by the pure malevolence of Unicron, which had taken up residence inside the Matrix sometime ago. Apparently Galvatron's efforts to corrupt Rodimus back on Cybertron had jarred loose enough evil for Unicron to take hold on Rodimus Prime's consciousness. {{storylink|Edge of Impact}}''

''Battling the power of the Matrix influenced by the Devil himself, the Autobots were sorely outmatched against Rodimus. Despite Arcee's urgings, Kup desperately searched for another option besides lethal force. {{storylink|Shadow of Evil}} In the short term, Kup seemed to be correct: Rodimus managed to fight back Unicron's evil, caging it inside the Matrix long enough for Kup to remove the object from Rodimus's chest, temporarily severing their link. {{storylink|White Fire}} In the long term, however, the threat was far from over. Rodimus would again be consumed by evil in 2010, this time metamorphosing into Unicron reborn for a time, before caging the evil again. Kup and Arcee were present at this second rise of Unicron, but their ultimate fate is unknown. It is telling, however, that Rodimus Prime appears to be beaten, ill, and totally alone by the time of 2356. {{storylink|Aspects of Evil!}}''

====Generation 2====
[[Image:WarWithoutEnd-Kup.jpg|left|300px|thumb|SKAZ!]]
After the Autobot army splintered throughout the universe, Kup was working alongside Optimus Prime and Hot Rod. In mid-battle, Kup had to verbally nudge Prime out of his apocalyptic visions. [[Grimlock (G1)|Grimlock]] summoned Prime and his forces for help and Kup was present as Grimlock explained his discovery of several "little Cybertrons". The Autobots soon learned of [[Jhiaxus (G2)|Liege Centuro]] and his [[Cybertronian (faction)|Cybertronians]] when Jhiaxus attacked them and took them prisoner. Kup and other Autobots were rescued by Prime and Grimlock from confinement on the [[Twilight]]. {{storylink|War Without End!}}

Kup kicked a lot of skidplate during the battle between the Autobots and Cybertronians in the [[K'tord Nebula]]. It was soon learned that bots on both sides were infected by some kind of parasitic entity that fed off of rage. Kup was so under its influence that Optimus Prime had to hold him back from attacking one of the enemy. {{storylink|Primal Fear!}}

[[Image:G2kupwonderspowerandglory.jpg|right|300px|thumb|"If even Hot Rod can be responsible, what chance do I have?"]]
Kup appeared as one of many dismembered corpses in one of Optimus Prime's apocalyptic visions. As Optimus reached toward Kup, an [[Swarm (G2)|inky black substance]] shot out of Kup's mouth, enveloped Prime and started to devour him. The real Kup then physically shook Optimus out of this vision, remarking that Transformers don't sleep. The crusty old Autobot reported that Grimlock had, against Prime's orders, left with a raiding party in tow. What Kup didn't say is that he wished Grimlock had asked him to come along. He got his chance to fight later when he went with Prime to rescue Grimlock from his bungled surprise attack on the Cybertronians. {{storylink|Devices and Desires! (Marvel)|Devices and Desires!}}

Kup supervised war games between the Autobots as they waited for Optimus Prime to finish his quasi-mystical journey into the depths of Cybertron. {{storylink|The Power and the Glory}} Later, Kup fought with Autobots and Decepticons to repel the Cybertronian attack on the planet [[Ethos]]. {{storylink|Escalation!}}

Helping mop up after the attacks on [[Earth]] by [[Bludgeon (G1)|Bludgeon]] and Jhiaxus, Kup reported the sorry state of their fortifications to Grimlock when the Swarm attacked their position. {{storylink|A Rage in Heaven!}}
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===Toy pack-in material===
Kup attended an emergency meeting led by [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] after the [[Creation Matrix]] was stolen. Soon, [[First Aid (G1)|First Aid]] announced his project to confuse the Decepticons using [[decoy]]s. While the decoys attacked Decepticon headquarters, Kup, Ultra Magnus, [[Hot Rod (G1)|Hot Rod]], and [[Blurr (G1)|Blurr]] snuck inside their base to steal back the Matrix. {{storylink|Start Your Own Decoy Collection}}
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===Ladybird Books continuity===
[[Image:GalvatronsAirAttack-KupWheeljackMagnus.jpg|left|thumb|250px|"Why, in my day, we didn't need no stinkin' shoulders!"]]
As a young Autobot, Kup participated in many battles against the Decepticons on Earth. One particularly great battle ended up with many casualties on both sides—casualties whose bodies were simply left in the valley where they died. Many years later, when the Autobots were running out of [[cybernite]] for their repair jobs, Kup recalled this event and suggested that they loot the old bodies for the precious metal. [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] approved, and let Kup lead [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]], [[Grapple]], [[Hoist (G1)|Hoist]] and [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Spike]] to the valley. On the way, Kup mistook the [[wikipedia:Aurora (astronomy)|aurora borealis]] for a Decepticon attack.

Upon arrival at the valley, Kup spent some time reminiscing about the past, until Grapple told him that they had a mission to complete. However, before the group could find anything of use, they came under attack by a number of [[Seeker|Decepticon jets]] and were forced to retreat. Returning to base, they wondered how the Decepticons had found them so easily, and it was eventually revealed that the Decepticons had constructed a [[Decepticon Space Station Argon|space station]] from which to spy at the Autobots' activities. While the Autobots were incapable of attacking targets in space, Kup remembered the "battle of the [[Green Asteroid]]", during which the Autobots had lured the enemy closer by using false signals. He also recalled Spike telling him that auroras scramble radio signals, and had Wheeljack and [[Huffer (G1)|Huffer]] construct an artifical aurora machine to mess up the Decepticons' communications. {{storylink|Galvatron's Air Attack}}

[[Image:DecepticonsUnderground-Kup.jpg|right|thumb|150px|"Yo." "Yo."]]

Eventually, Kup found himself stationed at [[Nebulos]], where the Decepticons were collecting energy via a "[[tetrahedron]]" at the planet's north pole. Alongside Blurr and [[Sureshot (G1)|Sureshot]], he was part of [[Brainstorm]]'s "Operation Heatwave", which consisted of using high-temperature lasers to melt the ice below [[Scorponok (G1)|Scorponok]] and the energy-collecting facility. {{storylink|Decepticons at the Pole}} Some time later, the Autobots started running out of lubricants, leading to Kup's joints creaking something fierce, so naturally he was overjoyed when the Autobots found a legendary Nebulan [[oil]] lake. However, as soon as they started pumping the oil back to base, the Decepticons destroyed their oil pipe, so Kup, his Targetmaster partner Recoil and [[Highbrow (G1)|Highbrow]] were forced to do a quick repair job. A second Decepticon attack soon followed, so the three fled into the Nebulan desert... only for Kup to get stuck to a rock when the area turned out to be magnetic. [[Crosshairs (G1)|Crosshairs]] soon saved him by neutralizing the magnetic field with an impact from his grenade launcher. {{storylink|Autobots Strike Oil}}

Highbrow later got kidnapped by the Decepticons and held ransom in exchange for Optimus Prime himself. When Prime decided to perform a rescue operation, Kup offered to come with him, but the Autobot leader had a different plan. {{storylink|Autobot Hostage}} After a few peaceful weeks with the Decepticons nowhere to be found, Prime got suspicious and ordered Kup to organize long-range patrols to find out what they were up to. The patrols scoured the entire planet except for the [[Nebulos Triangle]], as Kup explained that nobody had ever entered that area and returned. {{storylink|Decepticons Underground}}
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===''Big Looker Storybook'' continuity===
[[Image:Carshowblowupkup.jpg|left|200px|thumb|My Buddy! Wherever I go, he goes!]]
Kup and Hot Rod traveled to the coliseum to check out a robot car the [[human]]s had built that could respond to voice commands. They heard about it on their car radios! But when they arrived at the coliseum, Kup spotted Decepticons flying about. As some entered the back door, Kup shooed Hot Rod away, telling him to warn the others. If Hot Rod stayed, he would just get into trouble! Sneaking around inside, he eventually made his way up to the control room, where [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]] and the other Decepticons were rigging the lighting. They were planning on stealing the robot car! Kup decided to leave and tell the others, but he was spotted by [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]]. The evil Decepticons tied up Kup so that he wouldn't interfere.

As a parade of cars entered the coliseum and the crowds cheered, Kup worried about the safety of the humans. If only he could warn them. Kup got his chance when Galvatron ran towards the controls, telling [[Frenzy (G1)|Frenzy]] to pull the switch. Kup tripped Galvatron, and Galvatron came tumbling through the glass and onto the coliseum floor! For a short while, there was a stalemate; the Decepticons had Kup captive, but the Autobots had Galvatron! Thankfully, Hot Rod snuck up behind Kup and freed him. Yelling "Geronimo!" they jumped from the control room onto the coliseum floor, taking the Decepticons by surprise. Galvatron and the others escaped, but Kup and Hot Rod agreed that they'd be ready for him when he returned. {{storylink|Car Show Blow Up}}

[[Image:Wildboyofquintessonbattle.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Children's storybooks sure are violent.]]
Later, Kup, led [[Hot Rod (G1)|Hot Rod]], [[Arcee (G1)|Arcee]], and the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobots]] on a special mission to take supplies from Earth to a space station on [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]'s second moon. Despite Kup's warnings, the Dinobots loaded too many supplies onto the ship, and in the middle of their journey, the ship began to have problems. Kup tried everything, but the ship was going down! It crashed on a planet, but everyone landed safely. Unfortunately, Kup recognized the place. It was the planet [[Quintessa|Quintesson]]! They were interrupted by a tribal scream and a flurry of firestones. However, the boy who made his presence known was not aiming at them, but at the Quintessons behind them. The boy's name was [[Wheelie (G1)|Wheelie]], and he had been abandoned on the planet when his ship crashed their earlier.

Wheelie led them through the jungle, battling Quintessons along the way, until they reached Wheelie's crashed ship. Hot Rod was able to fix it, and everyone left the planet Quintesson, Wheelie included! {{storylink|The Story of Wheelie, the Wild Boy of Quintesson}}
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===''The Transformers in 3-D''===
[[Image:Kupin3d.jpg|left|thumb|150px|Someone hasn't been paying attention!]]
Eons ago, Kup fought against a third race of Transformers, the [[Destructon]]s. They almost destroyed the galaxy! But presently they were returning to the Transformers' civil war. But the Autobots were more immediately concerned with the Decepticons, who were trailing them across the galaxy. Kup assured them all that they would never ever die.
{{storylink|The War Against the Destructons, Chapter 1 of 3}}
{{-}}

===Dreamwave comics continuity===
[[Image:Skidswheeljackgrimlockkupironhidetww.jpg|right|thumb|300px|Kup was named after his pickup truck altmode even before he had it!]]

Millions of years ago on Cybertron, shortly after the assassination of [[Sentinel Prime (G1)|Sentinel Prime]], Kup was part of an Autobot unit under [[Grimlock (G1)|Grimlock]]'s command which battled for possession of [[Altihex]]. Kup and the other Autobots were forced to abandon the City-State as it collapsed, leaving it to the Decepticons. {{storylink|The War Within issue 1|The War Within #1}}

After a new Prime was coronated, a young archivist named [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]], the Decepticons led a full siege on the Autobot headquarters of [[Iacon]]. As per Grimlock's orders, Kup met with him, [[Ironhide (G1)|Ironhide]], and [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] just outside Iacon on the [[Tri-Torus Loop]], where Kup was shocked to hear Grimlock announce his plan to leave Iacon to the Decepticons. Instead, Grimlock led them deep within the planet, where the new Prime was battling [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] for his life, even though Grimlock had huge doubts over whether Optimus Prime was worth saving. {{storylink|The War Within issue 4|The War Within #4}} Kup confronted Grimlock about his apathy, and asked him if he had ever respected anyone. When Kup got too personal, Grimlock shoved him into a wall. While looking for Prime, however, the Autobots stumbled onto Megatron's real plan. They found a system of planetary engines that Megatron had ordered the [[Constructicon (G1)|Constructicons]] to restore. While Grimlock went on ahead, determined to find Optimus Prime, Kup and the others stayed behind to sabotage the Constructicons' work. {{storylink|The War Within issue 5|The War within #5}} The Decepticons detected their presence, and so Kup and the others fought a very one-sided battle against them. All hope seemed lost until Grimlock returned... with a very impressive Optimus Prime, who ordered Kup and Ironhide to help him cover Wheeljack's sabotage of the engines.

[[Image:Lightningstrikecoalition.jpg|left|thumb|250px|Every team needs an old guy! Well, two old guys.]]

The engines were destroyed, but Kup and the others were distraught to see the smoking crater where Iacon used to be. Optimus Prime, who was quickly stepping into the role, refused to leave Cybertron, and instead implored Kup and the others to follow him underground, where they would continue to wage their war against the Decepticons. {{storylink|The War Within issue 6|The War Within #6}}

Later, when Optimus Prime and Megatron disappeared in a prototype [[space bridge]] accident, the Autobot faction splintered, and Kup joined Grimlock's [[Lightning Strike Coalition]]. While on the [[Moon Alpha Spaceport]], Kup waxed on about the alleged cosmic destiny of the Transformers and how it contrasted with the stagnation of their race. Grimlock was annoyed with this introspection and urged him to get back to work. The Lightning Strike Coalition was able to thwart Starscream's [[Predacons (War Within)|Predacons]] from keeping their stolen Energon and made a quick retreat with the goods. {{storylink|Fragmentation}}

3.9 million years ago, due to a catastrophically low level of Energon, every Transformer on Earth ground to a halt in the [[Great Shutdown]]. Kup was in the middle of a fight with [[Thrust (G1)|Thrust]] when this occurred, and the two were frozen in a grappling pose for millions of years. Three thousand years ago, [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] awoke from this state and began rehabilitating the rest of the population. He eschewed the Decepticon/Autobot factions and promised a new unified Cybertron. {{storylink|Revelation (War and Peace)|Revelation}}

[[Image:PassiveAggression-KupIronhidereunite.jpg|right|thumb|250px|All old people are friends.]]

However, Kup and a handful of others believed Shockwave had evil motives for this and formed an underground resistance movement deep within the [[Wastelands]]. Things came to a head with the return of Optimus Prime to Cybertron, who had been on Earth for four million years. After disciplining Hot Rod for being an impetuous young punk, Kup explained their situation to Optimus Prime and introduced him to the rest of their members. More of Optimus Prime's comrades from Earth were brought into the resistance, including Kup's old friend Ironhide, and the two shared a heartfelt reunion. {{storylink|Passive Aggression}}

Kup and the others planned an all-out strike against Shockwave's stronghold in [[New Iacon]]. While Kup, [[Arcee (G1)|Arcee]], and [[Prowl (G1)|Prowl]] were trapped behind a rampaging [[Guardian robot|Omega Sentinel]], the three witnessed a strange beam emit from the top of Shockwave's stronghold and fire into space. {{storylink|Countdown to Extinction (issue)|Countdown to Extinction}} Shockwave was defeated, but Optimus Prime was severely damaged, and Kup and the others were forced to persist without his leadership while he recovered. {{storylink|Generation One issue 0}} As Kup looked on, Prowl tried to reassure the Autobots with a speech from New Iacon's central hall, but Prowl wasn't terribly good at speeches and so Ultra Magnus filled in. Though Prowl and the other Earthbound Autobots had finally returned home, things just weren't the same. Kup suggested Prowl and the others stop fighting the changes and just accept that they'd happened. This prompted Prowl to consider a return to Earth.

Kup and Hot Rod sparred within a computer-simulated portrayal of Earth. Hot Rod managed to win over his older and wiser opponent, but only in the most reckless way possible, a fact which Kup was unable to impart on the youngster. {{storylink|Lost and Found (issue)|Lost and Found}} Ultra Magnus decided to split the Autobots into teams to better defend Cybertron, and Kup was assigned to [[Moon Base One]] along with the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobots]]. Kup did not find this thrilling. {{storylink|The Route of All Evil}}

{{note|And then [[Dreamwave Productions|Dreamwave]] went bankrupt.}}

===IDW comics continuity===
{{ongoing}}
[[Image:SpotlightBlaster GetawayKupHufferBroadside.jpg|left|300px|thumb|Kup, before meeting [[Nick Roche]].]]

Kup is extremely old. In years past, he'd trained dozens of Autobots, including [[Prowl (G1)|Prowl]], [[Springer (G1)|Springer]], [[Sideswipe (G1)|Sideswipe]], [[Sunstreaker (G1)|Sunstreaker]], [[Hot Rod (G1)|Hot Rod]], and even [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]. {{storylink|Spotlight: Kup}} During the early years of the war after the assassination of [[Sentinel Prime (G1)|Sentinel Prime]], Kup was either leading or part of a squad sent to rescue [[Zeta Prime]] when they crossed paths with the famous former racer, [[Blurr (G1)|Blurr]]. Kup was skeptical of Blurr's usefulness, but some words from a young [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus]] were able to convince Blurr to alert Zeta Prime of the Decepticons' assassination attempt. {{storylink|Spotlight: Blurr}}

Shortly after [[Thunderwing (G1)|Thunderwing]]'s first apocalyptic assault, the besieged Autobots prepared for the big push against their positions by the Decepticons. Kup was in a trench alongside [[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]], Huffer, and the injured [[Getaway]], waiting for [[Blaster (G1)|Blaster]]'s morale-boosting broadcast to the Autobot forces, a transmission that never came. {{storylink|Spotlight: Blaster}}

[[Image:SpotlightKup killingspree.jpg|right|150px|thumb|Who keeps the martians under wraps?]]
At some point after Cybertron was abandoned, Kup and [[Outback]] crash-landed on a mysterious planet covered with radioactive crystals. Over time, Kup was slowly driven insane from the radiation. He talked to the dead corpse of Outback as though he were still alive (and used his disembodied arm as a club) and believed that [[zombie]]s were attacking him when he shut down for the night. In reality, these zombies were fellow Autobots sent to rescue him, and Kup killed several of them before Springer managed to get a [[Trailbreaker (G1)|specialist]] in to extract the aging Autobot. Unfortunately, due to the damage Kup sustained from the radiation, his incompatibility with modern Transformers tech due to his age and stubborn unwillingness to upgrade, and a near-meltdown of his spark, he was placed on life support upon arriving aboard ''[[Ark-17]]'', and it was unknown if he would ever recover, physically or mentally. {{storylink|Spotlight: Kup}}

Springer eventually reported to Optimus Prime that Kup's physical injuries had been repaired, but the state of his mind was still in question. {{storylink|Spotlight: Optimus Prime}}

Kup finally returned to service when Perceptor built a new body for Kup—one that was better and stronger. Perceptor insisted on following Kup on his first few missions, hoping to spot any technical problems. Unfortunately, while Kup and the [[Wrecker]]s were attempting to free Autobot prisoners from a docked Decepticon warship, Perceptor was caught in the crossfire. Kup found aid in a mysterious unaffiliated robot who had similar purposes. Kup quickly deduced that this [[Drift (G1)|Drift]] used to be a Decepticon named Deadlock. When Drift helped Kup blow the ship up and save Perceptor's life, Kup decided Drift was deserving of a second chance. Kup disbanded the Wreckers, formed a new unit, and asked Drift to join. {{storylink|Spotlight: Drift}}

[[Image:Slowmotionmoviewalkahm5.jpg|left|200px|thumb|Kup, after meeting [[Nicholas|Nick Fury]].]]

Kup was now in command of the starship ''[[Trion]]''. With a hand-picked crew comprised of heavy hitters, such as two former Wreckers and Drift, he harried the Decepticon fleet until he was baited into an ambush above Cybertron. There, the ship was shot down and forced to crash-land on the assumed uninhabitable world. Banding together to survive, they eventually encountered Optimus Prime's unit, only to find him incapacitated, the Matrix having been seized by [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]]. Although Kup was at first dismissive of [[Jazz (G1)|Jazz]], who had stepped into a command position in the void left by Prime, he quickly learned to appreciate Jazz's steady, capable hand. {{storylink|All Hail Megatron issue 5|All Hail Megatron #5}}

As Jazz and Kup stood on a balcony, Kup spoke of how the Autobots were betrayed by an outsider, someone who knew their codes. Autobot computer systems were shut down across the galaxy, and as shields and defenses were remotely shut down, countless Autobots died. It was a massacre. Kup decided to merge his unit with Jazz's, making Jazz his second-in-command. He also donated all his group's energon towards fixing Prime. Without Prime, they had no chance to rally their troops together as a cohesive unit. But a more immediate concern made itself known—the [[Insecticon Swarm]]. Kup ordered everything packed up and ready to move. {{storylink|All Hail Megatron issue 6|All Hail Megatron #6}} And so they did. Jazz told Kup how the Autobots were defeated on Earth, how Prime was destroyed and the Matrix stolen, and spoke of a traitor among their ranks. Kup continued to be worried about a decline in morale. {{storylink|All Hail Megatron issue 7|All Hail Megatron #7}}

And he was right to be worried. Ironhide assaulted [[Mirage (G1)|Mirage]], who he believed to be the traitor. Kup took Ironhide aside and berated him for his conduct. Before their chat could be resolved, the Swarm found them. Kup gathered up the Autobots and began to take them to a previously-agreed-on location across a lone bridge, where Perceptor would fire a shot that would detonate the bridge, separating them from the Swarm. Unfortunately, Perceptor was injured in the evacuation, and Kup had no plan B. Sunstreaker, who revealed he was the traitor, redeemed himself by blowing up the bridge and presumably himself. {{storylink|All Hail Megatron issue 8|All Hail Megatron #8}}

Kup pushed Ratchet to finish the repairs on Prime, but Ratchet explained that it wouldn't be easy. Prime could die in the process. Despite all odds, Prime survived the operation and was able to boost the Autobots' morale, much to Kup's satisfaction. {{storylink|All Hail Megatron issue 9|All Hail Megatron #9}} But before long, the Swarm was upon them, having found a second bridge. Kup and the other Autobots, even with Optimus Prime beside them, faced insurmountable odds. Only the surprise arrival of [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]] turned the tide. Optimus Prime ordered Kup and the others on board Omega Supreme, with designs to leave Cybertron and return to Earth. {{storylink|All Hail Megatron issue 10|All Hail Megatron #10}}
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===Timelines: Wings of Honor===
{{spoiler|Wings of Honor}}

[[Image:WingsofHonor-Kuptransmit.jpg|right|thumb|200px|Turbo-revvin' young punk.]]

Before the Great War, Kup was part of the crew of the Autobot Guard transport ship, the ''[[Eight Track]],'' under the command of [[Thunder Clash|Thunderclash]]. After Kup transmitted the results of their scan of the Outer Rim, he patched through a transmission from [[Autobot High Command]]. A cargo hauler, the ''[[Van De Graaff]]'', crashed on [[Beta-Nine]], possibly due to an early Decepticon uprising. Kup and the others were charged by Autobot Guard Commander [[Magnum]] with retrieving a very important piece of cargo that was on board the ''Van De Graaff'' and return it to Cybertron. Unfortunately, the ''Eight Track'' was shot out of the sky, crash-landing on the swampy surface of Beta-Nine.

Thunderclash, Kup, [[Flak]], and [[Landshark]] set out from the wreckage to find the ''Van De Graaff'' and its precious cargo. Along the way, an attack from a squad of prototypical Decepticon [[Skyraider]] warriors separated Kup from the rest of his crew. He soon found himself surrounded by their leader, [[Banzai-Tron (G1)|Banzai-Tron]], and two other Skyraiders. One of them, [[Hellbat]], hypnotized him into submission, but he was inadvertantly rescued when a sea monster ate the Decepticon. Kup escaped, and the other two Decepticons pursued.

Kup was the first to reach the ''Van De Graaff'', where he found its dead crew, the cargo, and some [[Quintesson|creepy dead aliens]]. Soon, the Decepticons were upon him, and when Thunderclash arrived to give him backup, Kup had a plan. He set his blaster to overload, placed it in one of the dead crewmen's canister-looking body parts, and handed it over to Banzai-Tron. When it exploded, Thunderclash was able to put the Decepticons under arrest.

Thunderclash, Kup, and the others returned to Cybertron as unheralded heroes. Commander Magnum told them that their battle was the first of the new civil war against the Decepticons, and assigned them to a new elite military unit, the [[Elite Guard]]! However, Kup never did learn [[Matrix of Leadership|what]] was in that cargo...

{{storylink|Wings of Honor}}

After returning home victorious, Kup starred in recruitment videos for the [[Cybertron Elite Guard|Elite Guard]]. {{storylink|Join the Elite Guard!}}

Millions of years later, a battle against Cyclonus, Scourge, and the Sweeps reminded Kup of his battle on Beta Nine, and he told the story to Hot Rod and the Dinobots. But soon, the Autobots were found within their hiding spot inside a nebula, and they were forced to fight the Decepticons one-on-one inside their own ship. Kup repeated the overloading weapon trick to defeat Scourge. After the Dinobots finished off the Sweeps, and Cyclonus made a lone escape, Kup and the others declared victory. {{storylink|Wings of Honor}}
{{--}}

==Commercial appearances==
[[Image:Toycommercial-Kup.jpg|right|thumb|200px|Kup is so old, there's no clear shots of him on YouTube.]]
* Kup made his [[commercial]] debut alongside Hot Rod and Blurr, joining Optimus Prime in a desert as he faces off against Starscream, Skywarp, Cyclonus and Scourge. As he charges into battle, Kup comments that this reminds him of the battle of the battle on [[Beta 4]] (not to be confused with the battle on [[Beta 9]].) [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3OA7bmga98]

* He appeared alongside Hot Rod in one of the movie plot-based commercials, this one for the Sharkticons. The two Autobots are shown driving up to the edge of a greenish pool, from which a pile of Sharkticons emerges and attacks. Kup and Hot Rod fist-fight their way through, with help from Wheelie.

* Kup appeared briefly in the commercial for [[Sixshot]], charging into battle alongside Rodimus Prime, firing at the enemy, and getting knocked aside by Sixshot's "rocket car" mode.

* Kup appeared in the commercial for the [[Monsterbot]]s. As Rodimus Prime and Blurr drive up, Kup reports that there has been a lab accident, and the new Autobots are ''monsters!''

==Toys==
===Generation 1===
[[Image:G1toy-Kup.jpg|right|300px|thumb|"Back in my day, we hauled cargo all day long without a tailgate and LIKED it!"]]
*'''Kup''' (Autobot, 1986)
**''Japanese ID number:'' '''C-82'''
**''Accessories:'' "Musket Laser"

: Kup transforms into a Cybertronic pickup truck (though how he is able to carry goods safely with no tailgate is a mystery). The entire front of the vehicle (including the windshield) is made out of die-cast metal. In robot mode, Kup has full shoulder rotation, though the way his elbows are set up means he cannot make full use of their joints. He (somewhat) makes up for it with swivel wrists. His legs feature no articulation whatsoever. Maybe Hot Rod left a piece out. He is armed with a blue laser rifle. Early releases of Kup had metal rear wheels, while later releases replaced them with black plastic.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/1986/Autobot/Kup/kup.htm More information on Kup at TFU.info]''

{{-}}
[[Image:G1toy-KupTargetmaster.jpg|right|thumb|300px|"Back in my day, our guns didn't talk back!"]]
*'''Kup''' (Targetmaster, 1987)
**''Japanese ID number:'' '''C-113'''
**''Accessories:'' Musket Laser/Recoil Targetmaster partner

: Kup (this time using all-plastic parts rather than die-cast) was slightly [[Retool|retooled]] with larger fist-holes and a mounting point on his vehicle mode back-end in order to make him into a [[Targetmaster]]. He came with his Nebulan partner [[Recoil]] rather than his original blaster.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/1987/Autobot/Kup/kup.htm More information on Targetmaster Kup at TFU.info]''

{{-}}
*'''Future Cybertron''' (Transformers Collection, 2005)
**''Japanese ID number:'' '''TF-20'''
**''Accessories:'' Musket Laser, Musket Laser/Recoil Targetmaster partner (you read that right)

: Targetmaster Kup was reissued in Japan, and like the "[[Transformers Collection]]" reissue of [[Hot Rod (G1)|Hot Rod]], he came with his original metal parts restored, as well as both his partner Recoil ''and'' his original gun, which was slightly retooled to fit the larger weapon-mounting points. The set also came with a redecoed [[Wheelie (G1)|Wheelie]].

: This iteration of the mold was used to make [[Optimus Prime (G1) toys|Orion Pax]].

===Timelines===
[[Image:Timelinestoy-KupWoH.jpg|right|300px|thumb|"I remember that time I had a hammer for a hand."]]
*'''Wings of Honor''' ([[BotCon 2009]] box set)
**''Accessories'': Clamp attachment, hammer attachment, Earth Cyber Key

: This version of Kup is a convention-exclusive [[retool]] of ''[[Cybertron (toyline)|Cybertron]]'' [[Red Alert (Armada)|Red Alert]] and transforms into a [[wikipedia:Dodge_Magnum|Dodge Magnum]] emergency vehicle. Plugging a [[Cyber Key]] into the back of his car mode causes two rear side-panels to pop out and reveal two spring-forward non-firing blasters. This gimmick is retained in robot mode, where they become over-shoulder blasters. He features an unusual transformation sequence where both the front and rear halves of the vehicle mode come together to form his legs. His hood halves open to reveal storage space for extra tools (a hammer-head and an opening claw) that can be attached onto his left arm blaster.

:Kup comes in a box set with fellow Autobots [[Flak]], [[Thunder Clash]], and [[Landshark]], and rival Decepticon [[Scourge (G1)|Scourge]].

: The original version of this mold was also used to make [[Cannonball]], and the [[Movie (toyline)|live-action movie-verse]] [[Crankcase (Movie)|Crankcase]].
{{--}}

==Notes==
[[Image:Kupcharactermodelcomparison.jpg|right|thumb|300px|From old to older!]]
* Check out the original Kup toy's chest-sticker...it's got a pair of [[Floppy disk|5 1/4-inch floppy disk]] drives on it. Apparently, he can store up to two extra Transformers' brains.

* Like the rest of the central ''[[The Transformers: The Movie]]'' cast, Kup had a preliminary [[character model]] by [[Floro Dery]] that was revised by Japanese artists before final animation. And just like the rest of the central movie cast, that early model was used as a basis for his toy design, and for his early Marvel Comics appearances. While other characters' early models often appeared in the Generation 1 cartoon as a result of production errors, Kup's was deliberately employed in the episode "[[Chaos (episode)|Chaos]]", where it was used [[:Image:Kup model comparison Chaos.jpg|in flashback scenes]] to represent a younger version of the character. The final model features a slimmer torso, streamlined leg shapes, and signs of aging.
** In the US Marvel stories, [[José Delbo]] used the older model, while [[Andrew Wildman]] and [[Geoff Senior]] used the final model. [[Derek Yaniger]] and [[Manny Galan]] switched back to the older model for Kup's ''Generation 2'' appearances.

* In the Japanese ''[[Binaltech Asterisk]]'' online manga, a little lost kitty was rescued from certain death (well, being stuck in a tree) by [[Ai Kuruma]] and [[Red Alert (G1)|Red Alert]]. That kitty was named [[Cha]] (Kup's Japanese name).

* The vehicle mode of ''[[Cybertron (toyline)|Cybertron]]'' series [[Brakedown (Cybertron)|Brakedown]], another old coot, resembles Kup's Cybertronian vehicle mode from the War Within comic series. This similarity was brought to the fore by Brakedown GTS, a "powered-up" [[redeco]] of the character with the colors changed to resemble Kup's. In fact, the color guide for the redeco, revealed on Hasbro's website, showed that "Kup" was a working name for Brakedown GTS.

* He claims on his MySpace page (see External links) that he's a [[Covenant|Pisces]].<ref>Kup's Myspace page was created by [[Nick Roche]] to promote his IDW [[Spotlight: Kup]] story.</ref> It is best to remember, however, that at the time he wrote this, he was utterly insane.

==References==
<references />

==External links==
* [http://www.ntfa.net/universe/english/index.php?act=view&char=Kup Kup's Universe profile on NTFA.net]

* [http://www.myspace.com/lostkup Kup's MySpace page]

[[Category:Autobots]]
[[Category:Elderly Transformers]]
[[Category: Elite Guard]]
[[Category:Generation 1 characters]]
[[Category:Headmasters characters]]
[[Category:Security officers]]
[[Category:Targetmasters]]

Scale

2009-05-21T17:56:35Z

76.127.243.157: /* Multiple scales of same character */

[[Image:OptimusSnakeEyes.jpg|right|300px|thumb|And the truck's how big...?]]
'''Scale''' in ''Transformers'' is, not to put too fine a point on it, screwed.

Virtually no era, franchise, fiction, [[Toy|toyline]] or other incarnation of ''Transformers'' has presented scale in a logical or believable fashion. (The only exceptions are the 1:24 toys for ''[[Alternators (toyline)|Alternators]]'' and ''[[Kiss Players (toyline)|Kiss Players]]'', but they [[Atari Hitotonari|have their own problems]].) Most fans agree that one must either ignore it or accept it, lest they be tempted to explain these problems and in the process fanwank themselves into oblivion.

However, the scale problems of ''Transformers'' still merit description.

{{bigquote|"Clearly, the pitiful humans at Hasbro are so overwhelmed by the awesomeness of Cybertronian life forms that they can't get the scale right."|[[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]|[[Transformers Comic issue 23|Star Scream's #23]]}}

==Scale within toylines==
===Toys out of scale with others in the same line===
[[Image:DiacloneScale.jpg|right|350px|thumb|That little guy — who comes from the same toyline as all those vehicles — is supposed to be a normal-sized human. Yeeeah.]]
The early [[The Transformers (toyline)|Generation 1 toyline]], especially the pre-[[The Transformers: The Movie|movie]] lines, were repackaged and [[Redeco|redecoed]] toys from several different Japanese toylines. The crucial point is that the toylines were initially unrelated. The characters ''should'' be in scale to each other as they all have real-world altmodes that (should) pass for real vehicles. However, since ''[[Diaclone]]'' toys were not part of the same line as ''[[Microman]]'' toys, scale issues arose. ''Diaclone'' figures such as [[Optimus Prime (G1) toys|Optimus Prime]], [[Prowl (G1)|Prowl]] and [[Hound (G1)|Hound]] are more-or-less in correct scale to each other (though problems already arise with [[Sunstreaker (G1)|Sunstreaker]] and [[Sideswipe (G1)|Sideswipe]], whose [[alternate mode]]s are based on ''the same car'' yet are not quite the same size), but many of the [[Mini Vehicle]]s from the ''New Microman'' line are clearly far too small by comparison. Even aside from their deformed penny-racer proportions, a [[Bumblebee (G1) toys|Volkswagen Beetle]] Microman toy is disproportionately tiny when compared to a [[Jazz (G1) toys|Porsche 935]] Diaclone toy. The disparity becomes even more obvious with [[Mini Vehicle|Minibots]] such as [[Warpath (G1)|Warpath]] (a tank) and [[Seaspray]] (a hovercraft), who should be many times their actual size.

Another glaring scale problem comes in the form of the [[Seeker]]s, who turn into F-15 Eagles which, in real life, are 19.4 m (63.8 feet) long. Correctly scaled, this would make their robot modes ''colossal'' compared to most Autobots. Similarly, the [[Constructicon (G1)|Constructicons]], despite also coming from the ''Diaclone'' line, are too small. Far worse is the other ''Diaclone'' combiner team, the [[Trainbot]]s, who have train engine altmodes, yet their toys are among the ''smallest'' of the ''Diaclone'' releases.

===Toys out of scale within teams===
Even toys specifically designed to interact with each other suffer from this problem. The [[Combaticon]]s are wildly out of scale to each other—[[Blast Off]]'s space shuttle mode should dwarf [[Swindle (G1)|Swindle]], with the others somewhere in between. Instead, they're about the same size. Among the Constructicons, [[Long Haul (G1)|Long Haul]] is designed to look like a gigantic [[Wikipedia:Image:Liebherr t282 1.jpg|"earth-mover" mining truck]]. He should be able to carry all his teammates in his bed, with some crowding. Similarly, [[Silverbolt (G1)|Silverbolt]] (a Concorde jet) is dramatically undersized compared to his fighter-jet [[Aerialbot (G1)|Aerialbot]] teammates. These scale problems are necessary to avoid misproportioned gestalt forms.

Don't even ask about the Protectobots with their [[Groove (G1)|motorcycle]] and [[Blades|helicopter]] limbs...

===Same altmode, different sizes===
Other scale problems come from characters who transform into the same (or similar) altmodes but whose toys are different sizes. For example [[Air Raid (G1)|Air Raid]] transforms into an F-15 Eagle, but his toy is half the size of [[Starscream (G1) toys|Starscream]]'s. The same can be said for the Lamborghini Countach [[Breakdown (G1)|Breakdown]], who should be the same size as [[Sunstreaker (G1)|Sunstreaker]] and [[Sideswipe (G1)|Sideswipe]], not significantly smaller. These discrepancies are also seen in the other [[Scramble City]] combiners with Earth altmodes, whose toys are all smaller than similar earlier toys.

===Multiple scales of same character===
Although it was never really a problem in G1 (later retro-iterations of [[Optimus Prime (G1) toys|G1 Prime]] e.g. [[Masterpiece]] don't count), later franchises sometimes released multiple versions of the same character in different [[size class]]es ''within the same product line'', usually limited to the leader characters. Multiple versions of [[Optimus Primal toys|Optimus Primal]] and [[Megatron (BW) toys|Megatron]] in ''[[Beast Wars (toyline)|Beast Wars]]'' weren't exactly an example of this, as they represented different bodies, but ''[[Beast Machines (toyline)|Beast Machines]]'' began the problem in earnest with three different [[Cheetor (BW) toys|Cheetor toys]] released over the course of the line. With one toy at the Supreme size point, one at the Mega point, and a third slight variant at the Deluxe point, there was no real indication of which size if any was the "correct" one. The same line also released two different [[Jetstorm (BM)|Jetstorm]] toys, two different Tankor toys, two different Thrust toys, and two different Optimus Primals (Though in the case of the Vehicons one of each pair could be considered a distinct "drone" version, in the media the "drones" and the "sparked" Vehicons were physically indistinguishable).

[[Image:TFAnimated RolloutCommand OptimusPrime toy.jpg|right|230px|thumb|Hooray. I'm in scale with nobody.]]
''[[Robots in Disguise (toyline)|Robots in Disguise]]'' continued the trend, with several prominent characters receiving a smaller [[Spy Changer]] toy in addition to their larger toy, such as [[Scourge (RID)|Scourge]] and [[X-Brawn]]. The ''[[Armada (toyline)|Armada]]'' line featured both a Super-Con and Super-Base version of [[Optimus Prime (Armada) toys|Optimus Prime]] featuring the same design at different size-classes, an issue repeated with [[Megatron (Armada) toys|Megatron]] in ''[[Energon (toyline)|Energon]]''. The introduction of the "Legends of Cybertron" size class in ''[[Cybertron (toyline)|Cybertron]]'' only compounded matters, as a plethora of different characters were released at a size wildly out of scale with any of their contemporaries. ''Cybertron'' also featured the first notable case of out-of-scale toys being at least partially explained in the fiction with [[Starscream (Armada)|Starscream]], who did change size over the course of the series.

With the explosion of toys for the [[Movie (toyline)|Movie]], even more scale problems erupted. The line offered both Voyager and Leader-class iterations of [[Optimus Prime (Movie) toys|Prime]] and [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]], not to mention nearly all of the movie's onscreen cast getting a Fast Action Battler toy which introduces scale problems between the toys and one another. The fact that [[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]] came with a small Scorponok, and a separate Deluxe class [[Scorponok (Movie)|Scorponok]] was released, only expands the scale problems when one realizes that the Blackout and Deluxe Scorponok toys are meant to interact. Blackout can carry the small Scorponok ''while'' clipped on to the larger one as well, effectively transporting ''both'' at the same time, which makes the entire assembly a nightmare of scaling problems.

This mishmash has expanded even further in the ''[[Transformers Animated (toyline)|Animated]]'' line, with Deluxe, Voyager, and even Supreme-class versions of [[Optimus Prime (Animated)|Optimus]]. [[Megatron (Animated)|Megatron]], has a Voyager, Deluxe, and a leader mode. And there's even two different sizes for poor [[Bulkhead (Animated)|Bulkhead]].

Originally, the intent was apparently to make the popular [[Optimus (disambiguation)|Optimus]] and [[Megatron (disambiguation)|Megatron]] characters available at lower price points than just "leader" class so that children with less money would not miss out, while also forcing [[completist]] [[User:ItsWalky|collectors]] to buy multiple versions of one character. The result, however, is that it creates further confusion about scale within the toyline, as the contradictory sizes of these toys leave it [[Personal canon|up to the fans]] to determine which is the "correct" version, either using apparent [[show-accuracy]] or other criteria. Sometimes this creates even further problems, though—if one assumes that the Voyager-class Movie Prime is the "correct" version, then he either has comically small seats for human passengers or [[Ironhide (Movie)|Ironhide]] has absurdly large seats.

===Toys out of scale with themselves===
[[Image:G1 Broadside toy.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Kill me. Just... kill me now.]]
[[Triple Changer]]s create a whole new set of problems. [[Octane]] transforms from a 20 m (60') tanker truck into a 65 m (200') jumbo jet. [[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]] transforms from an Earth jet into an entire ''aircraft carrier.''

Even a two-mode toy can have this problem. Twentieth Anniversary Optimus Prime has wheels which are pretty tiny for a Freightliner truck, while his rear hitch section is too thick. These out-of-proportion vehicle parts were necessary to give his robot mode [[Show-accuracy|show-accurate]] proportions.

===Toys with roleplay altmodes===
The characters with roleplay altmodes such as Generation 1 [[Megatron (G1) toys|Megatron]], [[Soundwave (G1) toys|Soundwave]], [[Perceptor (G1)|Perceptor]], or [[Laserbeak (Armada)|''Armada'' Laserbeak]] are scaled to be human-scale (well, kid-scale). Since the [[size changing]] seen in the fiction is not possible for real toys (at least, that's what [[TakaraTomy|Takara]] ''wants'' us to think), this human-scaling makes in some cases for inordinately large robot modes. E.g., [[Blaster (G1)|Blaster]]'s toy, in robot mode, is taller than most other Transformers.

The opposite problem is seen with [[Megatron (G1) toys|Masterpiece Megatron]], whose robot mode is in scale with Masterpiece Optimus Prime. The result is that, while he may transform into a very accurately-proportioned handgun, it's unmistakably much larger than the real thing. (Not that this has stopped him being widely banned as a "realistic firearm replica"...)

===Fanciful altmodes===
Most post-[[The Transformers: The Movie|movie]] Generation 1 characters (for that matter, most post-Generation 1 lines) are difficult to accurately scale, as they generally transform into futuristic or Cybertronian vehicles whose size we don't really know. (Or, indeed, they don't transform into vehicles at all.) The scale of characters such as [[Hot Rod (G1) toys|Hot Rod]] or [[Overhaul (Cybertron)|Leobreaker]] is fairly arbitrary and can only be estimated by their relative size to other characters in the fiction (although most fiction is highly inconsistent in this regard, see below). Nevertheless, if one assumes that most vehicle altmodes are intended for human-sized passengers, comparing toys such as [[Chromedome (G1)|Chromedome]] and [[Lightspeed (Technobot)|Lightspeed]] suggests the combiner scale problem continues.

===Big toys===
It goes without saying that the [[city-bot]] and planetbot toys (such as [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]] and [[Unicron]]) are not remotely to scale with normal Transformer toys. While they are indeed ''large'' toys, they're only two to five times bigger than typical Transformer toys, and thus transform into "cities" and "planets" about the (relative) size of a bungalow. The scale problems extend to the details. Some of the citybot toys have visible windows, which are too large for a city, suggesting instead a medium-sized building.

However, it's hard to begrudge Hasbro not offering us a [[Primus]] toy the size of an asteroid. Where would we keep it?

===An exception===
There has only been one notable exception to all of this scale weirdness in the toys: the ''Alternators'' toyline, where every toy is a 1:24-scale representation of a real car, and thus they are in perfect scale with each other. Unfortunately, for practical reasons this limits the choice of altmodes. A Blast Off (space shuttle) toy in scale with the Alternators toys would be 1.6 m (5.1') long, while a Broadside (aircraft carrier) toy at that scale would be over 12 m (40'). (Hasbro actually displayed [[Prototype|mock-ups]] for an unproduced line of "military" Transformers in scale with the Alternators during the BotCon 2007 Hasbro Tour; two of them recycled parts of ''[[Armada (toyline)|Armada]]'' [[Unicron]], and were thus [[Size class|Supreme-sized]], which made said potential toyline not particularly commercially viable for Hasbro.)

== Scale within fictions ==
Scale issues abound within the fiction, especially the [[The Transformers (cartoon)|Generation 1 cartoon]]. Some can be attributed to [[animation error]]s, such as layering problems,[[:Image:Tinybluestreak.jpg|1]][[:Image:Huge Ironhide and Small Ratchet.jpg|2]][[:Image:CarnageMiniBlaster.jpg|3]] but some "errors" were deliberate choices, for a variety of reasons.

===Fictional scale vs. toy scale===
[[Image:TeenyCliff.jpg|left|200px|thumb|Frighteningly toy-accurate.]]
[[Image:Powerglide Astoria Marygoaround.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Actually, [[Kiss Players|disturbing fiction]] is probably more of a concern than scale issues.]]
G1 ''Transformers'' fiction often depicts characters to the same relative scale as the toys, which duplicates the intra-toyline problems described above. The cartoon, for example, shows Prime, Megatron and Soundwave as about the same height, Seekers and Autobot cars as slightly shorter (though not as much as the toys are), and Minibots as smaller yet. This scale was carried over to their vehicle forms, resulting in differently-sized cars that, based on real world measurements, should be virtually the same size.

[[Image:Omegasupreme astrotrain.jpg|right|180px|thumb|I know he's meant to be big, but holy crap, dude!]]
For another example, the Marvel Comics portrayed the Pretenders as literal interpretations of their toys: 60-foot humans with full scale Transformers inside. The "disguise" aspect of this was later explained by having Landmine and Cloudburst encounter giant, transformer-sized humanoids on an alien planet which made them appear to be of a "normal" scale.

Transformers fiction commonly shrinks or inflates characters, relative to their toy sizes. "Giant" characters such as [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]] are, even aside from any [[size changing]] for transport purposes, clearly not in the same scale in toy form as they are depicted on screen. [[Mini-Cassette|Cassette characters]] such as [[Rumble (G1)|Rumble]]'s toys are roughly the same height as most Minibots, while in the show they are usually portrayed as human-sized.

[[Hot Rod (G1)|Rodimus Prime]] and [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] are usually shown to be of a fairly similar height (although Magnus is much bulkier), whereas there is a considerable difference between the size of their toys. By the same token, Rodimus is always depicted as being an equal stature to his opposing leader [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]], whereas the toy Galvatron is instead the same size as Magnus. Optimus Prime is also usually shown as only a head or so shorter than Magnus (if that), which gets very strange when you realise that a [[redeco]] of Prime's toy forms but a small part of Magnus' robot mode.

[[Image:Beastwarsmaxgroup.jpg|left|200px|thumb|Airazor picks the Ultra-class figure.]]
The cast of ''[[Beast Wars (cartoon)|Beast Wars]]'' were size-tweaked quite a bit, relative to the toyline. The most noticeable problem is Optimus Primal, who has an Ultra toy (the "level four" size, almost twice the size of the "level three" Mega next-largest Maximal toys), but is shorter than both Dinobot and Rhinox (both of whom are "level two" Deluxe sized toys). Further, Cheetor and Tigatron's toys use the same (Deluxe) mold, but Tigatron is a head taller in the show (both because tigers are larger than cheetahs, and because Cheetor is "a kid"). New and altered characters in later seasons were generally more consistent in size (and appearance) with the toys.

The ''[[Beast Machines (toyline)|Beast Machines]]''' toyline was ''far'' worse in size discrepancies with the cartoon. Of the Maximals featured in the show, the tallest character, [[Silverbolt (BW)|Silverbolt]], is the ''shortest'' toy, while the diminutive [[Nightscream (BM)|Nightscream]] is a massive Ultra-class toy. And, sadly, the most show-accurate toy, Air Attack [[Optimus Primal toys|Optimus Primal]], is a ''ginormous'' Supreme figure, towering over the other toys. (Weirdly, the King Kong-like size of this toy became canon in one specific [[micro-continuity]]. {{storylink|Prime Spark}})
{{-}}

[[Image:ShrinkingHeavy.jpg|right|180px|thumb|I lost thirty tons, thanks to the Jump-Cut! Thank you, Jump-Cut!]]
In the otherwise fairly toy-scale-savvy [[Unicron Trilogy]], [[Metroplex (Cybertron)|''Cybertron'' Metroplex]] and the other citizens of [[Gigantion]] are depicted as gargantuan in animation, whereas the toys are merely among the normal boxed size-classes. Within the animation, this causes problems with their Mini-Con partners, who are depicted as human-sized in robot mode by themselves, but when shown directly interacting with their larger partners, are scaled up right along with their partner... resulting in some temporarily gigantic Mini-Cons!

The Japanese ''[[Cybertron (franchise)#Galaxy Force|Galaxy Force]]'' release of Metroplex, dubbed "Megalo Convoy", included an exclusive [[redeco]] of the [[Legends Class|Legends of Cybertron]] [[Optimus Prime (Armada) toys|Optimus Prime toy]] to indicate the "correct" scale.

The ''[[Transformers Animated (franchise)|Animated]]'' franchise has its share of scale problems when comparing its toyline to the cartoon (not helped by multiple releases of some characters in different sizes - see above), with several characters seeming roughly one [[size class]] too small, such as the [[Dinobot (Animated)|Dinobots]] being a mix of one Voyager size and two Deluxes, [[Sentinel Prime (Animated)|Sentinel Prime]] looking rather diminutive as a Deluxe, and, most egregiously, [[Lugnut]] as a ''very'' squat Voyager who's shorter than even some Deluxes. (As with Voyager-class Bulkhead, more of his mass went into his width, plus his weapon takes away some from his robot mode.) Conversely, the traditionally stunted [[Bumblebee (Animated)|Bumblebee]] is marginally too tall and bulky to be in correct scale to his otherwise fairly accurate core teammates, assuming one includes Voyager [[Optimus Prime (Animated)|Optimus]] and Leader [[Bulkhead (Animated)|Bulkhead]] in their lineup. In fact, Animated is one of those toylines where you're not quite sure who you're supposed to base correct scale on.

===Inconsistent portrayal===
[[Image:OmegaSupremeintro.jpg|left|175px|thumb|No! Don't wash him in hot water! He'll...]]
[[Image:Omegasupreme-blasterandgrimlock.jpg|right|200px|thumb|...too late.]]
Even if a size was decided on, it often didn't remain consistent. The height of the cartoon's [[Jetfire (G1)|Skyfire]], just to name one, frequently varied between episodes.

The [[The Transformers (Marvel Comics)|Generation 1 Marvel comic]] is notorious for changing the relative sizes of various characters. A single Transformer's size is rarely consistent between artists. For example, Rumble and Frenzy vary in height relative to Soundwave. A panel in the "[[Time Wars]]" shows [[Bumblebee (G1)|Goldbug]], [[Ironhide (G1)|Ironhide]], [[Scattershot]], and [[Swoop (G1)|Swoop]] all the same height. [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]], titanic in his original appearance, {{storylink|Command Performances!}} shrunk steadily in subsequent issues until he was not much taller than the average Transformer. Fortress Maximus suffered a similar problem, shrinking in size even though he was explicitly rebuilt to be twice as tall as the average Transformer.

[[Image:Beastwarriors scale.jpg|right|150px|thumb|Beast Megatron's size vs. Optimus Prime's in America... and Japan. Looks like the Blasty Zone adds on a few tons to Beast Era characters.]]
Between the [[Great War (G1)|Great War]] and the [[Beast Era]], the majority of the Cybertronian race considerably downgraded in size at the [[Great Upgrade]]. When entering the [[Ark (G1)|''Ark'']], the Beast Warriors are quite small compared to the dormant Generation 1 characters, especially [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]—but just ''how'' much bigger varies quite a bit from scene to scene and episode to episode. When interacting with the Autobot technology of the ''Ark'' and the [[Autobot shuttle]], the Maximals are often dealing with equipment grossly oversized for them (standing on the chairs to reach the controls, turning knobs the size of their heads); yet the ''Ark'' also seems to feature some human-sized computer control panels. {{storylink|Master Blaster|Master Blaster}} Without any height booster, Blackarachnia can interface well with these controls.

On the other hand, ''[[Robot Masters]]'' depicted Generation 1 and ''Beast Wars'' characters like Optimus Prime and Optimus Primal as being exactly the same size. Lovely. It's possible that passage through the [[Blasty Zone]] may somehow [[Wikipedia:Boom tube#Later Additions to the Concept|account for this discrepancy]].

===Explicit size changes===
{{main|size changing}}

Numerous characters are explicitly shown to shrink or expand at various times.

====Human-scaled alternate modes====
Blaster becomes a human-size radio; Megatron shrinks into a Transformer-scaled handgun. The cartoons and comics typically show this without explanation, leaving the reader to attribute it to advanced alien technology.

====Pretenders====
Some versions of the Pretenders are shown to explicitly shrink when hiding in their human-sized outer shells. In the U.S. toy commercials, Grimlock, Bumblebee, and Jazz in their new Pretender forms were small enough to fit in Powermaster Optimus Prime's hand. So, at least in that [[micro-continuity]], they were human-sized. ''[[Super-God Masterforce (cartoon)|Super-God Masterforce]]'' featured Pretenders who did not have outer shells but rather an ill-defined holistic transformation which explicitly involved size changing. A vaguely similar explanation appeared in [[Dreamwave Productions|Dreamwave]]'s ''[[More Than Meets The Eye (G1)|More Than Meets The Eye]]'' encyclopedia.

===Implicit size changes===
Characters often change size when transforming in a less explicit fashion. These changes in scale are usually attributed to size changing by that portion of the fanbase who like to find explanations for things. The other explanation is that the artists hoped the audience wouldn't notice.

====Transport characters====
In the original cartoon, Transformers that act as transport for other Transformers, such as [[Astrotrain (G1)|Astrotrain]], Skyfire, and [[Cosmos (G1)|Cosmos]], will often dramatically change size relative to their compatriots between one shot and the next. For example, Cosmos is ''much'' shorter than Blaster in robot form; yet Blaster easily fits within his spacecraft mode. Likewise, a whole squad of Decepticons can fit into Astrotrain's shuttle mode easily, yet he's an ordinary-sized trooper in his robot form.

Sometimes the cartoon would show ordinarily-scaled characters such as Cyclonus, Thrust or Huffer carrying another Transformer in their cockpit, implying either a tiny passenger or a huge vehicle. Even Omega Supreme, who is supposed to be huge, would have to have a greatly expanded scale for his rocket ship component to accommodate passengers as shown on the cartoon.

The Marvel comics commonly sidestepped this issue by not using Transformers as transport characters, or else requiring the passengers to transform into their explicitly smaller forms to be carried. Yet they were not immune to this problem. In one story, the Pretender [[Cloudburst]] exited his shell, transformed into jet mode, and then his shell (and [[Landmine (G1)|Landmine]]) boarded him as a passenger. The fact that his ''outer'' shell was now much smaller than the ''inner'' robot was quietly ignored. {{storylink|Guess Who the Mecannibals Are Having for Dinner?}}

Dreamwave's ''More Than Meets The Eye'' series of bio comics tried to explain this for characters such as Astrotrain and Broadside by saying they're able to expand themselves to increase cargo space in vehicle mode, though their armor becomes thinner as it is spread out more. Conversely, the series notes, in robot mode, all that armor and structure being compressed into a smaller form makes that mode stronger and more durable for combat.

<center><gallery>
Image:MakeHoistHuffer.jpg|Definitely ''not'' toy-accurate.
Image:Ironhide carried into Ratchet.jpg|...And not to mention [[Ironhide (G1)|th]][[Ratchet (G1)|is]].
</gallery></center>

====Combiner characters====
[[Image:DreamwaveCover6.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Since when is a sedan nine stories tall?]]
[[Combiner]] characters are often depicted as far larger than the sum of their parts. Characters such as [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]] and [[Menasor (G1)|Menasor]] are frequently shown as [[That big green, fire-snortin' lizard|Godzilla]]-sized. Given that their limbs are mere cars and construction vehicles, this is patently absurd. ([[Superion (G1)|Superion]], by contrast, ''would'' be building-sized, given that his torso is a 100-seat jetliner.)

Combiners are also often out-of-scale with other Transformers; a combiner with cars for legs and another car for its torso should be only twice as tall as a one-car Transformer, but they are routinely drawn as five to dozens of times taller than their comrades.

====Scale problems and size-changing====
Some fans interpret the many otherwise-unexplained scale issues above to all be the result of [[size changing]], but this is debatable. If virtually all characters use mass-shifting (or whatever) to gain or drop a few feet of height for no logical reason, the technology would be pointlessly mundane. There's also no known reason for (e.g.) the Seekers to choose to get ''shorter'' when going into battle. A to-scale Starscream in robot mode could kick Bumblebee around like a soccer ball. There's simply no positive evidence that size-changing is so widespread.

===Undersized alternate modes===
Many Transformers are portrayed in fiction as having alternate modes that are smaller than the real-life objects they are imitating. Sometimes this is deliberate, allowing them to match their toy scale and/or be of a similar size to other characters; in other cases, it is essentially an artistic error.

Toys at the lowest price points usually include "mini" or "micro" in their name. [[Mini Vehicle]]s [[Warpath (G1)|Warpath]], [[Seaspray]], and [[Powerglide (G1)|Powerglide]] are usually depicted as smaller than other Transformers in fiction, even though their alternate modes should have them towering over other characters. This often results in minuscule vehicle forms; Seaspray is a tiny hovercraft, despite being covered with doors and windows.

[[Image:Hotrodpatrolcommercial.jpg|left|200px|thumb|Do you have change for four hot rods?]]
The [[Micromaster]]s are explicitly downsized Transformers, roughly the size of a human in the comics, meaning that they ''should'' have explicitly tiny vehicle modes... which wouldn't make for very convincing disguises. The Micromasters are about the same height in robot mode, but they transform into equally tiny cars, trucks, planes, tanks, and other vehicles that should be vastly different sizes.

Despite this, the Marvel comic featured [[Roadhandler (G1)|Roadhandler]] carrying a human passenger in his vehicle form, as though he were a full-sized car. The Dreamwave miniseries ''[[Micromasters]]'' suggested that the Micromasters were scaled down to interact more easily with "smaller beings". Whether that meant creatures of human scale or even smaller stature is never clarified, but the Micromasters' passenger compartments are presumably too small to accommodate human passengers.

The [[Mini-Con]]s of the [[Unicron Trilogy]] are another race of small robots who stand approximately the same height as humans and, like the Micromasters before them, are clearly modeled to carry passengers. Really teeny passengers. (Notable exceptions are [[Grindor (Armada)|Grindor]] (in his original body), [[Sureshock (Armada)|Sureshock]], and [[High Wire (Armada)|High Wire]], who become small one-man conveyances.) This results from the Mini-Cons scanning normal vehicles and then resizing them to fit, retaining now-useless passenger compartments. In the [[Cybertron (cartoon)|''Cybertron'' cartoon]], the [[Recon Mini-Con Team]] have slightly-larger-than-human robot modes, but their alternate modes are large enough for a single human passenger, implying either a little size-changing or that their cockpits are kinda cramped. Though the Recon Team all originate from Gigantion, and seeing how partnered Minicons seem to change size to fit their larger companions, a little size shift to accomidate a passenger doesn't seem too far-fetched compared to other scale issues.

Likewise, the [[Beast Era]] Maximals and Predacons possess roughly human-size bodies; yet when portrayed as vehicles on Cybertron ("[[Dawn of Future's Past]]", the Vehicons in [[Beast Machines (cartoon)|Beast Machines]]), they feature seats and cockpits that, at their size, should be basically useless.

====Citybots====
[[Image:EarlyGalvatronTVMagazine1.jpg|right|200px|thumb|If you were ever this big in the cartoon, then we might call you a city.]]
[[City-bot|A few characters]] have "city" alternate modes. As actual real-life cities can sprawl for many miles, a [[city-bot]] that can notionally house a population of humans, ''let alone'' Transformers, should have a robot-mode that'd make [[Hojoni|Godzilla]] look like a gecko. Suffice to say, almost no fiction even ''begins'' to approximate the logical size of a true "city-bot". In the American and Japanese cartoons, all four were shown as massive robots capable of housing many normal-sized Transformers. Even so, it would take something along the lines of the grossly undersized depictions of [[Unicron]] (see below) even to begin to represent reasonably the colossal size of a transformed city; so in the context of Transformers, "city" is perhaps better read as "building" or "fortress".

These city-bots often have "small" robots forming vital components. Scorponok has a "human-sized" being forming his head. [[Full-Tilt]], [[Six-Gun]], and [[Slammer]] must logically be building-sized in robot-mode to be in-scale with Trypticon and Metroplex, but, again, are not drawn as such.

The Marvel Generation 1 comic sidestepped this issue by depicting Trypticon, Fortress Maximus and Scorponok as merely "large-standard" characters. However, Metroplex, during his one, brief appearance, was depicted as being immensely larger, crushing Quintesson attack cruisers under foot without batting an eyelid. He was still considerably smaller than a city, however, but this was justified by him merely serving as the 'transformation core' for Autobot City: Earth, not the actual city itself.

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====Planets and planetbots====
[[Image:Cybertronplanet.jpg|left|250px|thumb|If we're generous and assume Cybertron is only the size of Earth's moon, then the larger visible buildings are roughly the size of Massachusetts stood on end, and you could wedge France into that gash. (Which would probably improve both Cybertron and France.)]]
Scale when it comes to planets is so fraught it's painful. The problems of describing citybots as "cities" is a thousand times worse if [[Unicron]] is supposed to have a planet alternate mode, and [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] is in turn supposed to be of similar size. Though different stories have compared Cybertron/Primus and Unicron to drastically different real planets, the fact remains that they are ''planets'', and yet are shown in such insane scale to characters as to suggest they are the size of a ''very'' small moon (or [[Darth Vader|space station]]).

To start with, Cybertron was shown throughout ''Generation 1'' with buildings visible from space. Although this was intended to show that the planet was technological in nature, it makes little sense, as the structures would have to be the size of small ''nations'' to be visible. If the buildings were in fact supposed to be skyscrapers (or even ''2000 A.D.''-style arcologies) sized for 10 m (30') robots, Cybertron would still be less than 150km (100 miles) across. By comparison, the rather [http://www.starwars.com/databank/location/coruscant/index.html Coruscant]-like shots of Cybertron in ''[[Beast Machines (cartoon)|Beast Machines]]'' may be less distinctive or "Cybertronian", but are ''far'' more believable. Some people let this go by reasoning that Transformers being larger than humans, don't need to breathe, and all that technology meaning buildings CAN be that big.

Unicron is a more extreme problem. Assuming no [[size changing]] occurs during his transformation (and really, what possible reason would he have to become ''smaller''?), in robot mode he would be so massive that any shot featuring a recognizable ''part'' of his body, let alone the whole thing, would be on a scale such that no normal Transformer would even be visible. [[Image:UnicronEatsGalvyMmmm.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Either Galvy is humungo, or Lithone is tiiinyyy!!!]]Scenes in the [[The Transformers: The Movie|1986 movie]] in which he directly interacts with normal Cybertronians are blatantly absurd (though totally phat-looking). Shots such as the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobots]] fleeing his grasping hand, a starship penetrating his eye, impaling [[Brainstorm]] on his fingernail, {{storylink|On the Edge of Extinction!}} or ''especially'' him picking up Galvatron between his fingers before swallowing him, break any concept of "planetary" scale.

If Cybertron is the size of Earth's moon (and that's generous), and Unicron is about the size of Cybertron, his hands would be about the size of Europe and Galvatron (to the right) would be about the size of Denmark.

There is no explanation for any of this. Just go with it.

The depiction of Unicron's scale in ''[[Armada (franchise)|Armada]]'' was (debatably) a slight improvement, in that physical interaction with normal beings was not attempted. He preferred instead to communicate with normal Transformers by possessing one of them. {{storylink|Sideways (RID)|Sideways}} Nevertheless, shots featuring [[Thrust (Armada)|Thrust]] and [[Megatron (Armada)|Megatron]] standing on his neck are still ''farcically'' out of scale.

===Oversized alternate modes===
[[Image:RattrapLOVEScheetor.jpg|right|180px|thumb|I'm tellin' ya, all da rats in Brooklyn are dis big!]]
Much less common are instances of a Transformer turning into an overscaled real-world object. Most such instances occur in the ''Beast Wars'' era.

Although the Beast Warriors are consistent day-to-day in their relative size to each other, their scale in relation to their real-world animal equivalents is more complex. While the bug characters such as [[Waspinator (BW)|Waspinator]] and [[Inferno (BW)|Inferno]] are obviously scaled-up, other characters are more subtly not quite the right size.

[[Cheetor (BW)|Cheetor]] and [[Tigatron]] are shown standing next to real members of their species, and they are both the same size as the animals in question. {{storylink|Beast Wars (Part 1)}} {{storylink|Law of the Jungle}} This makes them (and Cheetor in particular, since he's around more) the measuring sticks for the other characters. Therefore, [[Rhinox (BW)|Rhinox]] is a rather small rhinoceros, and [[Optimus Primal]] is a roughly normal (or female) gorilla. However [[Rattrap]] is a monstrously huge rat, the size of a large dog (indeed, the writers stated that Season 1 Rattrap was 5' (1.5 m) tall<ref>[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/msg/8227a6ca84c0238d Bob Forward gives Rattrap's height from the show bible]</ref>). Likewise [[Dinobot (BW)|Dinobot]] is considerably larger than a real velociraptor. [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]], however, is a tiny specimen of a T. Rex. In their interactions with adult [[protohuman]]s, the Transformer characters seem between twice and three times their height. Considering our ancestors really were smaller than modern humans, this is not extremely wrong, but it deserves noting.

However, thanks to the scaling up of the bug characters, it is relatively safe to assume that the Transformers scanned only animal ''forms'' and then rescaled them to fit their own size, which is actually slightly more believable than all other series, in which the Transformers use mass shifting to make their alt modes the ''right'' size.

===Artistic license===
====Variation for characterization====
[[Image:Prime has a huge head.jpg|left|150px|thumb|With 20th Anniversary Prime and Smallest Transformers Bumblebee, you can actually recreate this scene.]]
Some scale problems are for the sake of characterization. For example, Optimus Prime is routinely shown as thoroughly gargantuan, several stories in height, and capable of cradling humans in his palm. If he's the size of a real truck, Prime in robot mode should be 8–10 m (25'–30') tall, at best. He's drawn large because he's a leader character.

Conversely, [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]] is sometimes shown only a few feet taller than an average human, while in reality he would be 3–5 m (10'–15') tall (the Marvel comic actually states he's 15' tall {{storylink|Plight of the Bumblebee!}}). He's drawn small because he's a human-friendly character, and a junior member of the Autobots.

With fighter jet alternate modes, the [[Seeker]]s should be among the largest everyday Transformers and would ''tower'' over their Autobot adversaries; instead, the animation depicts characters such as [[Thundercracker (G1)|Thundercracker]] and [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] as about the same height. Though jets are much larger than cars, they're drawn the same height so the battles appear fair. (And also to make it easier to animate; blocking a shot where characters differ radically in height is difficult.)

In a related vein, sometimes Transformers are able to enter human buildings, fitting through their doors and able to run up their staircases without crashing through. {{storylink|B.O.T. (episode)|B.O.T.}} A cast that couldn't enter buildings would be grossly inconvenient for telling some stories, so the animators fudge things.

{{-}}

====Intentionally strange scale====
[[Image:MarvelUS-01.jpg|right|200px|thumb|One side makes you larger, one side makes you small. (Op's been noshing on the first side too much.)]]
Sometimes artists draw a character at a different size [[Authorial intent|intentionally]]. For example, on the cover of the [[The Transformers (issue)|first issue]] of [[The Transformers (Marvel Comics)|the original ''Transformers'' comics series]], Optimus Prime is extremely huge compared to the highway, bridge, and normal cars. ([[Laserbeak (G1)|Laserbeak]] is bigger than usual, too.) This is purely for dramatic effect.

Another notable example is the splash screen for the "[http://www.takaratomy.co.jp/products/TF/bible/index.html World of the TRANSFORMERS]" website, which depicts [[Optimus Primal]] (in his original gorilla body) as the same size as [[Optimus Prime (G1)|G1 Optimus Prime]] and [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Movie Optimus Prime]], directly contradicting the size difference seen in "[[Optimal Situation]]" and elsewhere (except for [[Robot Masters]]).

Artwork for the [[:Image:VaderVsPrime.jpg|''Star Wars'']] subline features [[:Image:Megatronvsluke.jpg|humans from another galaxy]] standing at the same height as Transformers.

[[Image:World of the Transformers ent.jpg|left|250px|thumb|Meet the Supreme class Munky Optimus Primal.]]
{{-}}

===The 2007 ''Transformers'' movie===
[[Image:Moviescale1.jpg|left|250px|thumb|Scale is absolutely not an issue in the movie. Riiight.]]
The creators of the [[Transformers (2007)|live-action movie]] took great pains to avoid out-of-scale issues. (Well, greater than previous franchises.) This is sometimes reflected in the choice of vehicle or the design of their robot mode. E.g., [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] is an extended-hood cab in order to have more mass with which to make a taller robot mode. [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]'s robot mode is nearly as wide as it is tall, with shorter, digitigrade legs, so the massive jet-former won't end up twice as tall as Optimus. In the case of [[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]], his huge alternate mode simply results in a hulking, towering robot mode.

There are still minor scale issues to be found, though. For example, Optimus Prime can hold both [[Sam Witwicky|Sam]] and [[Mikaela Banes|Mikaela]] in one hand. Comparing this shot with when he picks up [[Archibald Witwicky]]'s glasses a few minutes later, it seems the glasses have lenses a foot (30cm) in diameter. This is a visual cheat so the glasses are visible to the audience. There's also debate about whether [[Frenzy (Movie)|Frenzy]]'s head could compact itself into a slim mobile phone. The [[Movie (toyline)|movie-franchise toys]], meanwhile, are only intermittently consistent (particularly since some of the secondary ones are redecos of toys from previous lines), with the largest contrast among the "primary" toys being between Deluxe Class [[Arcee (Movie)|Arcee]], a motorcycle, and Voyager Class Decepticons with helicopters as their [[Alternate mode|alternate modes]], such as [[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]] and [[Incinerator (Movie)|Incinerator]]. However, many of the wheeled vehicles are close to 1:35 scale, although Deluxe Class [[Jazz (Movie)|Jazz]] and 1977 [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]] are ''obviously'' not the same scale.

{{-}}

==Official scale guides ==
[[Image:Tfcartoonscaleguideic1.jpg|left|180px|thumb|Official Scale Guides]]
[[Image:Beastwarsscalepreliminary.jpg|right|250px|thumb|Beast Wars Season 1 scale guide]]
Animators and comic book artists received official scale guides showing relative and (in some cases) absolute heights. Some of these were published in the character model guides ''[[The Ark: A Complete Compendium of Character Designs|The Ark]]'' and ''[[The Ark II — A Compendium of Japanese Character Designs|The Ark II]].'' Though they were sometimes ignored, they still give insight into the official scale of characters in Generation 1. However, even here, there are problems. Devastator in the Season One scale guide was approximately 2.5 times the height of Optimus Prime, but by Season Two he was somewhat less than twice Prime's height.

''Beast Wars'' likewise had an official scale guide, which appeared as a bonus on the DVD set of Season 2. Despite this guide, the series writers have indicated some measure of disregard for relative scale, when it suits the needs of dramatic tension.<ref>[http://builtstlouis.net/tf/manic/m-botcon.html BotCon 98 report - see "ON THE SIZES OF CHARACTERS"]</ref> Thus, Optimal Optimus is ''ungodly'' tall in his first appearance, later reduced to perhaps two times the height of the rest of the cast.

{{-}}

==References==
{{reflist}}

==External links==
*[http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/msg/6db411e03e75a342?dmode=source Estimated "real-life" heights for several Transformers, derived from the size of their alt-modes, archived from alt.toys.transformers on groups.google.com]

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