Talk:Pis

2009-08-31T21:05:27Z

90.242.193.102:

==Peace==

I always thought the dog's name was Peace and even now I prefer Peace over Pis or Pisu.

Could the Japanese spelling support "Peace" as being the dog's name or is the Japanese word for Peace completely different? [[Special:Contributions/90.242.193.102|90.242.193.102]] 19:37, 29 August 2009 (EDT)
:"PIS" is on the poor dog's headstone, so moving the article would be a tough sell. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 19:51, 29 August 2009 (EDT)
::Not to mention that "peace" would be written ピース in katakana, while the dog's name is ピス.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 19:54, 29 August 2009 (EDT)
Now that I'm thinking about it, are pet grave markers in Japan often written in the Latin alphabet? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 20:48, 29 August 2009 (EDT)
:Can't say as it's ever come up in conversation with any Japanese person I know, but it's a moot point, as the dog in this case was in America.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 21:14, 29 August 2009 (EDT)
::Oh yea. I forgot it was in America. Probably because everyone was still speaking Japanese. Somehow it makes it even stranger that an American dog was named Pis. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 21:29, 29 August 2009 (EDT)
Clearly we need a screen cap of the headstone with the caption, "Pis out." --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:23, 29 August 2009 (EDT)
:Huh, I don't remember seeing that headstone though it was a very emotional scene when the dog died (although I do think the little girl ruined the moment by completely getting over the death of her dog when she was promised she would be getting a new one -- "aww, my dog died! wahh! what, I'm getting a new dog? great! yay! so happy!!") [[Special:Contributions/90.242.193.102|90.242.193.102]] 17:05, 31 August 2009 (EDT)

Talk:Pis

2009-08-29T23:37:14Z

90.242.193.102: New page: ==Peace== I always thought the dog's name was Peace and even now I prefer Peace over Pis or Pisu. Could the Japanese spelling support "Peace" as being the dog's name or is the Japanese w...

Talk:Scale

2009-08-23T22:18:54Z

90.242.193.102: /* Nebulans */ new section

Hi, this is my second (and much larger) personally-originated article. I hope you like it; I certainly had fun writing it.

As I discussed on [[micro-continuities]], I'm keen for people to contribute to the article; I'm not overly precious about it. All I'd ask is that if you really hate something, please discuss it HERE first, rather than outright deleting or extensively re-writing it just yet.

I'd particularly appreciate anyone wanting to add examples from other franchises. It's pretty G1 and Beast Era-centric at the moment. More/better pictures would also be great.

Also, I'd REALLY appreciate any suggestions as to what category(ies) this article should be placed in. I'm really scratching my head here...

Anyway, don't be shy, let the newbie know what you think!

Cheers,
[[User:PacifistPrime|PacifistPrime]].

:Wonderful article. I enjoyed it. This is something that's always on my mind when I'm looking at my toys or comics. About the proto-humans in Beast Wars, though: proto-humans were smaller than modern humans (around 4 ft tall). So the scale problems, while still an issue, are not as drastic as they seem. I'm not sure how to integrate that into that section. --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 18:02, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

::Wow, thanks man. And cheers for the protohumans info. Please feel free to contribute anything, especially pictures! Ta, [[User:PacifistPrime|PacifistPrime]].

I love the subtle hilarious genius of giving this the Things that Don't Exist category. --[[User:Terrocon Blot|Terrocon Blot]] 05:55, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
:Uncyclopedia reference FTW! --[[User:TVsGrady|TVsGrady]] 04:07, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

== Alternators having a problem?==

Pardon me for asking, but what problem is there with the Alternators line? Kiss Players obviously deserves its place, but isn't that line seperate from Alternators? {{unsigned|66.161.202.19}}
:It's just a joke at Kiss Players' expense. And they're not entirely separate; some Alternators toys ended up as Kiss Players toys. [[User:JW|JW]] 20:11, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

== JBW Scales? ==

I remember hearign that the JBW TF's were scaled like classic G1 TF's, not the 8' tall BW-era average, but it's been so longsince i saw parts of BW2 that I can't back that up.<br/>
(This of course creates issues with Primal suddenly getting that size int he teamup. which I suppose is a problem in Robotmasters too.)<br/>
Pic of Robotmasters Primal & Prime vs. a 2-shot from Agenda? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:53, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:I wouldn't know; I've never seen more than the teamup movie of BWII and some painful snippets of BWNeo on YouTube. Frankly I loath the little I've seen of these shows, and most Japanese-originated fiction for that matter, although I don't want to force that opinion on anyone. Love the leader-toys though ;-)

:Please feel free to add anything like that if you can verify it, and if accurate please do point out the resulting scale problem with Primal in relation BW and RM. Cheers, [[User:PacifistPrime|PacifistPrime]].

::Such misconceptions were probably caused by the fact that in BWII Most of the Destrons turn into vehicles, the J-Beast Warriors are only G1-Sized if we assume that the Destron's vehicle modes are supposed to be real world scale. They could just be tiny vehicles like in Dawn of Futures Past. Which is probably the most likely, as Lio Convoy has been shown to be the same size as the Lion he scanned, while on the other hand Tasmanian Kid turns into a huge Tasmanian Devil, much like Rattrap turns into a huge rat.

:::But that's inconsistant as well. I did a quick search and found evidence that LioConvoy was about the size of his lion, as you said [http://bigbot.com/beast_wars_2/pictures/cartoon_tv_show/02_White_Lion_Run/], but I also saw an image of Tasmania Kid cradling a tasmanian devil that he scanned in his hands [http://bigbot.com/beast_wars_2/pictures/cartoon_tv_show/04_Lake_Trap/]. Wikipedia [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasmanian_devil#Physical_description] places the average length of a Tasmanian devil at 652 mm, which would be over one-fourth the height of an average man. So it's still confusing.-[[User:EricMarrs|EricMarrs]] 23:41, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
::::Contextually, though I haven't seen the episode, I'm betting that's a baby Tazmanian devil.
::::Sale in JBW is weird. It appears that Lioconvoy was 'real' sized, (about 7 feet tall, and transforms into a normal-sized lion.) while others in hsi crew are ridiculously undersized. By contrast- the Destrons turned into TINY versions of jets and such. The toy scale was (loosely) maintained. Robotmasters is fucked though.
::::I might rephrase the entry to more accurately reflect this contradiction. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:15, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

== Mini-Cons ==

The first paragraph on Mini-Con scale bugs me. The Earth-based altmodes have always been pretty clearly intended as small-scale reproductions of actual vehicles, no different from how Waspinator is (theoretically) a large-scale reproduction of an actual wasp. So Sparkplug, for instance, has windows because he's a tiny Lamborghini and Lamborghinis have windows. (A case could be made for the non-Earth-design vehicles, I suppose.) It just seems to be inventing an issue for the sake of having something to question on a subject where there's already plenty going on that's questionable... if anything, Mini-Cons in Armada are one of the few cases of ''consistent'' scale in Transformers. --[[User:Andrusi|Andrusi]] 18:23, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
:Well, except the weapons. --[[User:Andrusi|Andrusi]] 18:24, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

: Yeah, I'm not wild about it either. They're not supposed to be having passengers at all ever, and clearly were never intended to... except in ''Cybertron''. (And, well, the SAT, right.) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 18:43, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

::Well, I take your point, but it seems to me that it's still a valid inclusion. Even if Mini-Cons were never ''intended'' to hold passangers (although for that matter, frankly, how often do you see post-Movie characters actually carrying passangers anyway...?), they nevertheless turn into vehicles that ''appear'' to be able to carry people in them but are too small to actually do so. They are, almost by definition, SCALED DOWN representations of (mostly) real vehicles. So feel free to reword the paragraph, but I still think Mini-Cons warrant a reference. That's my two cents, anyway. Ta, [[User:PacifistPrime|PacifistPrime]]

==Question==

Why does Lio Convoy and Primal being the same size in BWII cause a problem. Lio convoy was the same size as a real lion.

==Nanotyrannus?==

You should remove the nanotyrannus caomment since many now believe it's just a young rex.
:Except that when Mainframe created the CGI models for Beast Wars, Nanotyrannus was believed to be a real genus. I always assumed that they had Megatron get his beast mode from scanning Nanotyrannus fossils so he wouldn't completely dwarf the rest of the cast. --[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 20:36, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
:Maybe the same explanation of Nanotyrannus applies to Meg's beast mode scale-he just scanned the fossil of a juvenile T-Rex. [[User:Darktruth|Darktruth]] 23:17, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

== Scale within Toylines ==

Parts of the paragraph involving the movie toys are very inaccurate, especially the claim that non-Prime or Megatron characters having toys in different classes representing the same body is virtuarlly unprecendeted. If it were just the Legends that were the exception, that would be fine, as the reason for that class was "small versions of the large toys", much the TF-Juniors (same goes for fast-food toys and kabya kits).

The main problem with this is Beast Machines, as the first Megatron (Mega) toy is the same "body" as his TMII form (Ultra), three toys for Cheetor (Mega, Supreme, Deluxe) and Primal (Deluxe, Mega, Supreme), Jetstorm (Deluxe and Ultra), Tankorr (Mega and Basic), and Thrust (Deluxe and Basic). (Yes, the Basics forms of the last two were techinaclly Drones, but the ''Beast Wars Returns'' line released the Basics as the Generals, and the visual difference between General and Drone was some extra paint.) --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 20:41, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

== Awsomeness. ==

Hey man love the article. I wish all of wikipedia could be like that, informal and with a bit of humour, instead of being as about as much fun as getting repeatedly kicked in the face. Lauds.

== Movie ==

While not perfect, the movie has avoided many of the scale issues that previous generations have had, and should be mentioned. As with Beast-Era, this entire new kettle of fish is in need of its own section and should probably be added soon. If anyone can point out any scale problems in-movie (not in the toys, though there are many there) please mention them here. -[[User:King Starscream|King Starscream]] 14:08, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

* In the movie we are shown the All-Spark compressing itself from a massive cube to a much smaller one, in which a human is easily able to hold and run with it. Isn't it reasonable to suggest that the Transformers, being a product of the All-Spark, would be able to, to some degree, compress or expand themselves in the same fashion?
::Yes, but that's a topic for the [[size changing]] article. While this article does talk about size changing (possibly too much), any discussion that's ''just'' about size changing shouldn't be here. [[User:JW|JW]] 20:34, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

== Featured? ==

Any chance of this article becoming a featured article? It contains an enormous ammount of knowledge, and is also witty at the same time. As such, this article could be said to be a perfect example of what this wiki is about. [[User:Tindalos|Tindalos]] 20:39, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
: Well, as the originator of the article, I'd second that! ;-) I'm enormously chuffed to hear you say that, thanks. [[User:PacifistPrime|PacifistPrime]].

:: Ideally, I'd like to see the BW sections edited a bit more, and possibly integrated into the top sections of the article. Currently, the article is partly organized by topic (scale and toys, scale and fiction) and partly by franchise. Also, it needs to be trimmed of discussion of size-changing that is not relevant to scale (with that discussion moved into the size changing article). [[User:JW|JW]] 02:10, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

:::Hi there [[User:JW|JW]],
::: Your points are valid, but I'd actually argue that the BW stuff ''should'' stay separate. Although there's no massively logical rationale behind this (scale, after all, is scale), I think the fundamental aesthetic differences between the vehicular TFs that dominate the franchise and the animal altmodes of the Beast Era, especially Season 1 of BW (which is mostly what this material covers, since they were the only significant depiction of "real animal" altmodes) are better discussed separately. I know that falls a little bit afoul of the usually meaningless "toasters versus squishies" dualism, but in this case I really think it just''feels right'' as an organisational divide for this particular article.
:::As to the size-changing stuff; I'll have a closer look but I really thing that some discussion of size-changing is inevitably required with a topic concerning scale.
:::Cheers, [[User:PacifistPrime|PacifistPrime]] 23 October 2007
Me again, [[User:JW|JW]],

I've had a close look at the article and I really feel that all the discussion of size-changing herein really ''is'' neccessary, and thoroughly relevant. Sorry.
[[User:PacifistPrime|PacifistPrime]] 26th Oct. 07

:If you think the amount of size-changing discussion currently in the article is about right, I won't quibble much. [[User:JW|JW]] 11:50, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

== Metroplex ==

While his "city" mode isn't really shown, Metroplex is about the size of Autobot City in the UK comic ("Space Pirates", to be precise).

[[User:Cliffjumper|Cliffjumper]] 09:42, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I've added a short line to indicate this, though I'm buggered if I can work out how to link to Space Pirates properly...I've tried it with an underscore, with a space, and both with and without the exclamation mark, but it keeps redirecting me to a new page. Anyone?

[edit]...aha, fixed it. The Space Pirates article has a picture of 'Plex in robot mode that might be useful for this article too, if the Citybot section was more substantially re-written.

[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 05:10, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
:The recent changes to this article removed the Space Pirates info about Metroplex and it now once again reads 'almost no fiction even begins to approximate the logical size of a true "city-bot"' - is there some reason why the one instance of a Citybot being shown to a reasonable scale is being omitted? [[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 06:45, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

== movie scale alert ==
i think there might be one more scale problem in the 2007 transformers movie : when bumblebee shrinks the all spark he holds it fairly easily with one hand and when ladiesman217 takes it he holds it just as easily with two hands[[User:217.43.84.145|217.43.84.145]] 13:57, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
:Yah, but the All Spark explicitly can change size, so it's hard to argue Bumblebee didn't just shrink it again . . . [[User:JW|JW]] 15:31, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

== Long Article ==

For people who are tempted to add to this article, please note that it is close to the maximum recommended length of 32kb already. Don't add new stuff unless it's pretty important to the article. New material that is ''just'' jokes will probably get cut again to make room for more substantive stuff. [[User:JW|JW]] 11:55, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

== Animated ==

There's nothing in the article about any size inconsistencies that may have cropped up in ''Animated'', so, as the series goes forward, we should probably keep an eye out. Im' guessing the first problems to crop up will involve Prowl, as he's a motorcycle rather than a car or truck. --[[User:Nemesis Primal|Nemesis Primal]] 05:26, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

:I've noticed a few instances, but they're more "animation company screwups" than any kind of consitent scale issues. Look at Prime from the first episode when Bulkhead is loading an injured Prowl onto his bed. Prime's truck mode is HUGE. That's not a consistent thing, though, so I don't know that' it's worth mentioning outside of the episode's "animation errors" listing. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 18:51, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
::Forget Prime. PROWL in robot mode is gigantic in many shots, considering his tiny altmode. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:23, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

== minicons ==

i think the gigantion minicons are supposed to be huge because in the episode showing the origin of soundwave and sideways it says that the people turned there planet and THEMSELVES (which would include the minicons on that planet) into giants[[User:81.108.233.59|81.108.233.59]] 17:54, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
:Except they're clearly ''not'', and they're explicitly said to be ''tiny'' to do detail work. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 18:46, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

== Rattrap ==

The article mentions that only Cheetor and Tigatron were seen next to their actual flesh and blood counterparts, but I could have sworn there was a scene where Rattrap was seen next to a real rat (and the real rat was tiny compared to him). In A Better Mousetrap, perhaps? [[User:Excise|Excise]] 14:33, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
:True. Fixed. [[User:JW|JW]] 14:44, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

==Dinosaur Alts==
Dinobot cannot be a Utahraptor OR a Velociraptor. While he IS much too large to be a Velociraptor, Utahraptors are about 7 meters long and 2 meters tall, and he is shown to be shorter than Optimus Primal in beast mode. Additionally, Megatron's Nano T.Rex is not even confirmed as a genuine species, and is 17 feet tall anyway. It's probably wiser to assume the same matters of scaling as with the insects and Rattrap. [[User:Harley Quinn hyenaholic|Harley Quinn hyenaholic]] 07:48, 24 April 2009 (EDT)

==Dreamwave Devastator Pic==
While it's an excellent example of scale problems, it doesn't belong in the Toys section (since it's not a pic of a toy), and in the section where it ''does'' belong, we already have a Dreamwave Menasor pic which illustrates the problem. Unless there's another place to put it where it will fit, it should probably be cut. [[User:JW|JW]] 12:53, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

==Alternators ''Only'' Toyline to Scale?==
Perhaps I'm missing the intention of the statements in the article, but a couple of times the Alternators are spelled out as the ''only'' exception to the scale difficulties that plague all-that-is-Transformers. The G2 GoBots (later known as Spychangers) were designed to be 1:64 scale, weren't they? Or is there something wonky about their scale I'm missing?--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 17:30, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
:I think if you place RID Hot Shot, Ironhide, and Mirage next to each other, you'll see that they're only ''roughly'' to the same scale. Mirage is big for an Indy car, and Ironhide is a small pickup. "1:64 scale" in this case means "about yay long". [[User:JW|JW]] 17:38, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
::Yeah, basically in this case it means "Fits most Matchbox/Hotwheels tracks."

==Article cleanup==
This article, with its many many subsections and considerable length, has been bothering me for a while. I think I figured out why: it had sections talking about a type of ''problem'', such as explicit size changing, then it also has sections about various fictions, then it ''also'' has sections talking about a type of ''Transformer'' that suffered from those various problems, thus repeating all the information previously given.

It seems to me it's got to be one or the other -- we either break it down by type of problem, by fiction, or by type of Transformer. It's redundant and sloppy to have it all three ways. Considering how many kinds of Transformers there are and how much media exists, the logical choice is by problem type. That's what I'm shooting for with the most recent edit.

It still needs further cleanup; for example, the city and planet sections should be combined with other instances of an alternate mode implying a different size of robot than is actually shown. When you get down to it, Seaspray has exactly the same type of scale problem as Unicron; the article should reflect that instead of rambling all over the place. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 15:45, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
:The [[Scale#Fictional_scale_.E2.89.88_toy_scale|Fictional scale ≈ toy scale]] section in your rewrite cuts off abruptly mid-sentence. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 16:16, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
::Thanks, missed that. And sorry I just called you someone else's user name in the Recent Changes list. <:D -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 16:39, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

==A "scale canon"==

Sorry for this brain-dump, but it's one of the few places I can think of with the collective knowledge to make this work. Most lines are not even remotely in scale within a [[size class]], especially if we're talking about aircraft. However Scout or Legends-class car characters could sit alongside Deluxe or Voyager aircraft, and be in scale. Given the number of size classes in the larger lines, and the plethora of figures in those lines, ultimuately you could concoct one or more "scale canons" per line containing a range of characters which are approximately in scale with each other. Any thoughts? [[Special:Contributions/82.41.72.10|82.41.72.10]] 10:12, 23 August 2009 (EDT)

:So the idea would be to list the toys which have relative sizes matching the relative sizes of the characters in fiction? Are you talking about robot mode or vehicle modes, cause I can see arguments for both, but they're not always the same... --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:59, 23 August 2009 (EDT)

== Nebulans ==

Assuming that Nebulan partnered cars are the same size to Earth cars and that Nebulan partnered jets are the same size as earth jets, wouldn't that make the Nebulans to be different sizes to each other? This is especially apparent for Targetmasters in vehicle mode with their Nebulan partner attached. I assume that Nebulans would not wear a suit of armor the same size as they are (as seen in the eighties comic and cartoon) but a personal mobile suit as depicted in Dreamwave's MTMTE (the Nebulan sits in the torso area) - it beats the Nebulan having to move their legs in impossible ways when transformed as the toys would let us believe. [[Special:Contributions/90.242.193.102|90.242.193.102]] 18:18, 23 August 2009 (EDT)

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