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Talk:Sentinel Prime (G1)

2007-11-02T04:13:59Z

97.96.60.132: /* Not Dead Yet */

I think that statement wans't true outside of Dreamwave continuity Walky. Prime-as-leeader-of-the-Autobots didnt' come about until well after SP's death. 'There Shall Come a Leader' and all that said the Autobots were not only led by the High Council, but they also commanded the military. Optimus Prime beign named Commander-in-Chief of the army was the turning point of the war. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:07, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
: Isn't there a Marvel UK panel of Sentinel Prime passing the Matrix to Optimus? That's the only full-body shot we've ever got of him. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:09, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

...you mean like the one I uploaded 2 minutes ago? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:11, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
: What I'm saying is he looks like he's Autobot leader to me. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:15, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

::And I woudl agree with you. He definatelyt was in The War Within. But in Marvel's backstory (at least UK) Optimus Prime was the first TF made leader of the Autobots, which had previously been led by the High Council (one of the reasons for their ineffectiveness.) And that's jsut the army. NEITHER had been civil leader. (Well, Prime possibly was followign Xaaron's death.)
:::I'd argue that Sentinel Prime was still Autobot leader even though he had a council to answer to. Is UT Optimus Prime not Autobot leader? He has a council of ancients who can veto him as well. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:28, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Good point, and well said. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:42, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

There's a fairly lengthy list of Sentinel Prime's abilities and weapons in the Keepers Trilogy. I plan to put that in his main section since he's such a ciper. Any objections? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:22, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

...and why was he unsuccessful? because he died? Optimus Prime died, does that make him unsuccessful? What about the Primes that reigned during times of peace? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:30, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:Because everyone said he was. Everyone specifically said Sentinel Prime (and all the others) did a piss-poor job. Megatron slaughtered them. It was only Optimus who did a good job. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:36, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

::Really, I could have sworn that Sentinel Prime was Prime before war started, and thus Megatron had slaughtered, at max, one Prime before Optimus. When did {{Template:Tooltip|everyone|Was it Bluestreak? He says lots of things...}} say this? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:40, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:::A fairly big point is made that none of the previous Primes were military leaders. They were without "clout," as Grimlock put it. They just weren't very good, and it was Optimus who turned the tide of the war. Apparently archivists are great military leaders or something. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:51, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In Dreamwave continuity, there were only 2 more primes prior to Sentinel Prime (not counting Prima) at leat one of which was not deactivated, but instead 'left for parts unknown.'
::::Your very argument, that Sentinel Prime did a 'piss poor job' adnd wasn't suited to beign a war leader lends itself to the belief he'd been appointed PRIOR to the begining of the war. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:48, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:::::Actually, my belief was that the Matrix just chose shitty Primes. (Which works with what you say the Keepers Trilogy may have been suggesting.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 03:52, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::How does 'Megatron chose Optronix to be a shitty Prime' translate into 'the matrix chose him to be a shitty Prime'?
::::::And it's not suggesting- it's pretty explicit.

<DIV STYLE="nargin:10px;background:#eeeeee;padding:10px;">"Sentinel Prime," Optimus choaked. He was looking up into the face of his predecessor, and he could only imagine the Autobot's shame and disgust.

"I'm not a ghost," Sentinel Prime said. "I'm as real as anything else in your mind, and to your senses. The Matrix within you chose this form to communicate with you."

Optimus almost laughed. This wasn't happening. It couldn't be happening; "Not the best time..."

"You were right to think that an error was made. It never should have been you, Optimus. You should have been free to choose the life you would lead. This burden of leadership had been meant for another. It is only after many years of detailed self-diagnostic routines that the flaw has become apparent."

"No..."

"You need to hear this, Optimus," Sentinel Prime said calmly. "You were chosen to fail. Chosen by Megatron himself."</DIV>

::::::Now, you CAN attempt to say that the Matrix is basically... messign with him. Tryign to shock him back to awareness. (Prime had been deep in a crisis of confidence and badly wounded, was basically considering 'letting go' and letting Megatron finish him off.) The next thing SP says is that- just because Prime had been chosen to fail doesnt' mean he should let Megatron kill him here and now.
::::::The '''problem''' with this argument is that Prime is obesessed with this idea that he wasn't meant to be Prime for all of book 1. And when he finally overcomes this confidence, he does not conclude the message was false, he jsut concludes it doesnt' matter if hr wwas the wrong choice 'at the time,' he's grown into someoen who can fill the role.
::::::Besides, I dont' think the Matrix would encourage Prime to pass the Matrix on to someone else if it was just messing with him, which it did.

::::::It may not have been what Furman meant when he wrote 'rigged the game,' but that's probably what Ciencin was basing it off of. But then, Ciencin probably based the Keepers off a text refernece to the old man from US#60 in the War Within. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:16, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

===Rigged the game===
Again, Derik, you read weird things into pretty straight-forward dialogue. I'm pretty sure the only game he means is battle. War is his, he invented it, yadda yadda yadda. It's common Furman-style rhetoric. I don't really see the conspiracy theory, and I'm puzzled even further how Megatron could rig the Matrix to choose Optromix, especially since he spends the whole first miniseries trying to get the dang thing. If he can manipulate it that deeply from afar, why the hell bother? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:51, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I think it's stupid too. But according the Keepers Trilogy, the claim is real. Or rather, after all the smoke and confusion over the robotic Sentinel Prime underiming Optimus Prime's confidence settled- it emerged that the original vision, which claimed Megatron has chosen Optronix to be Prime in order that he would fail (and thus Megatron would get the Matrix) actually WAS a real vision projected by the Matrix.

So... yeah. You can delete the italicised claim if it suits you, bit it at least fits that otherwise rather ODD bit fromt he books, and makes it seem more like he just pushed them to choose the records-clerk. "He'll be easy." -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:04, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

==Umlauts are Cool==
NEW DISCUSSION TOPIC!

do you think that the evil clone of Hot Rod, as one of Megatron's 'diabolical clones' used diacriticals to distinguish himself from the original?

You know, like: '''Höt Röd''' ?

Was there some point when characters discussed Sentinal Prime and said he had 'a good head on his shoulders- well, he USED to?' Or am I totally remembering somethign that never happened? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:08, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
: "Sentinel Prime, he had his head screwed on." "Not at the end, he didn't."
: So, uh, is it me, or did Stephen Colbert write the italicized portion of the profile? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:01, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yes, but WHERE was that from? I'm blanking, and I dont' have time to sit down and re-read all of TWW to find it, I just got Angelig Days v1, and I have a date with Kowaru slashiness!
::I like to cap off my character biographies with something that sums them up. I can't HELP that this one was inherently hilarious. Prime learnign to trust his heart but USE his fists was the entire damn point of The War Within.
::I should go back and cut down that top entry, I bet you could cut 40% of the text withotu losing any meaning. It was a bitch to get it all structured, but once in place, it could stand to be trimemd back... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:51, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

== Not Dead Yet ==

Acoording to Alex Milne (the artist) Sentinel didn't die at the end of Megatron Origin. But like much of his artwork it is kinda hard to tell.

http://forum.idwpublishing.com/viewtopic.php?t=2612

Here is the quote ....."with sentinel prime, he's different then nova, and optimus. he's a brute. also, he's not dead yet. he won't die for a while still. but he has been beaten badly."<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Sentinel Prime (G1)

2007-11-02T04:13:45Z

97.96.60.132: /* Not Dead Yet */

I think that statement wans't true outside of Dreamwave continuity Walky. Prime-as-leeader-of-the-Autobots didnt' come about until well after SP's death. 'There Shall Come a Leader' and all that said the Autobots were not only led by the High Council, but they also commanded the military. Optimus Prime beign named Commander-in-Chief of the army was the turning point of the war. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:07, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
: Isn't there a Marvel UK panel of Sentinel Prime passing the Matrix to Optimus? That's the only full-body shot we've ever got of him. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:09, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

...you mean like the one I uploaded 2 minutes ago? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:11, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
: What I'm saying is he looks like he's Autobot leader to me. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:15, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

::And I woudl agree with you. He definatelyt was in The War Within. But in Marvel's backstory (at least UK) Optimus Prime was the first TF made leader of the Autobots, which had previously been led by the High Council (one of the reasons for their ineffectiveness.) And that's jsut the army. NEITHER had been civil leader. (Well, Prime possibly was followign Xaaron's death.)
:::I'd argue that Sentinel Prime was still Autobot leader even though he had a council to answer to. Is UT Optimus Prime not Autobot leader? He has a council of ancients who can veto him as well. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:28, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Good point, and well said. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:42, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

There's a fairly lengthy list of Sentinel Prime's abilities and weapons in the Keepers Trilogy. I plan to put that in his main section since he's such a ciper. Any objections? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:22, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

...and why was he unsuccessful? because he died? Optimus Prime died, does that make him unsuccessful? What about the Primes that reigned during times of peace? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:30, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:Because everyone said he was. Everyone specifically said Sentinel Prime (and all the others) did a piss-poor job. Megatron slaughtered them. It was only Optimus who did a good job. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:36, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

::Really, I could have sworn that Sentinel Prime was Prime before war started, and thus Megatron had slaughtered, at max, one Prime before Optimus. When did {{Template:Tooltip|everyone|Was it Bluestreak? He says lots of things...}} say this? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:40, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:::A fairly big point is made that none of the previous Primes were military leaders. They were without "clout," as Grimlock put it. They just weren't very good, and it was Optimus who turned the tide of the war. Apparently archivists are great military leaders or something. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:51, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In Dreamwave continuity, there were only 2 more primes prior to Sentinel Prime (not counting Prima) at leat one of which was not deactivated, but instead 'left for parts unknown.'
::::Your very argument, that Sentinel Prime did a 'piss poor job' adnd wasn't suited to beign a war leader lends itself to the belief he'd been appointed PRIOR to the begining of the war. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:48, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:::::Actually, my belief was that the Matrix just chose shitty Primes. (Which works with what you say the Keepers Trilogy may have been suggesting.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 03:52, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::How does 'Megatron chose Optronix to be a shitty Prime' translate into 'the matrix chose him to be a shitty Prime'?
::::::And it's not suggesting- it's pretty explicit.

<DIV STYLE="nargin:10px;background:#eeeeee;padding:10px;">"Sentinel Prime," Optimus choaked. He was looking up into the face of his predecessor, and he could only imagine the Autobot's shame and disgust.

"I'm not a ghost," Sentinel Prime said. "I'm as real as anything else in your mind, and to your senses. The Matrix within you chose this form to communicate with you."

Optimus almost laughed. This wasn't happening. It couldn't be happening; "Not the best time..."

"You were right to think that an error was made. It never should have been you, Optimus. You should have been free to choose the life you would lead. This burden of leadership had been meant for another. It is only after many years of detailed self-diagnostic routines that the flaw has become apparent."

"No..."

"You need to hear this, Optimus," Sentinel Prime said calmly. "You were chosen to fail. Chosen by Megatron himself."</DIV>

::::::Now, you CAN attempt to say that the Matrix is basically... messign with him. Tryign to shock him back to awareness. (Prime had been deep in a crisis of confidence and badly wounded, was basically considering 'letting go' and letting Megatron finish him off.) The next thing SP says is that- just because Prime had been chosen to fail doesnt' mean he should let Megatron kill him here and now.
::::::The '''problem''' with this argument is that Prime is obesessed with this idea that he wasn't meant to be Prime for all of book 1. And when he finally overcomes this confidence, he does not conclude the message was false, he jsut concludes it doesnt' matter if hr wwas the wrong choice 'at the time,' he's grown into someoen who can fill the role.
::::::Besides, I dont' think the Matrix would encourage Prime to pass the Matrix on to someone else if it was just messing with him, which it did.

::::::It may not have been what Furman meant when he wrote 'rigged the game,' but that's probably what Ciencin was basing it off of. But then, Ciencin probably based the Keepers off a text refernece to the old man from US#60 in the War Within. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:16, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

===Rigged the game===
Again, Derik, you read weird things into pretty straight-forward dialogue. I'm pretty sure the only game he means is battle. War is his, he invented it, yadda yadda yadda. It's common Furman-style rhetoric. I don't really see the conspiracy theory, and I'm puzzled even further how Megatron could rig the Matrix to choose Optromix, especially since he spends the whole first miniseries trying to get the dang thing. If he can manipulate it that deeply from afar, why the hell bother? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:51, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I think it's stupid too. But according the Keepers Trilogy, the claim is real. Or rather, after all the smoke and confusion over the robotic Sentinel Prime underiming Optimus Prime's confidence settled- it emerged that the original vision, which claimed Megatron has chosen Optronix to be Prime in order that he would fail (and thus Megatron would get the Matrix) actually WAS a real vision projected by the Matrix.

So... yeah. You can delete the italicised claim if it suits you, bit it at least fits that otherwise rather ODD bit fromt he books, and makes it seem more like he just pushed them to choose the records-clerk. "He'll be easy." -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:04, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

==Umlauts are Cool==
NEW DISCUSSION TOPIC!

do you think that the evil clone of Hot Rod, as one of Megatron's 'diabolical clones' used diacriticals to distinguish himself from the original?

You know, like: '''Höt Röd''' ?

Was there some point when characters discussed Sentinal Prime and said he had 'a good head on his shoulders- well, he USED to?' Or am I totally remembering somethign that never happened? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:08, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
: "Sentinel Prime, he had his head screwed on." "Not at the end, he didn't."
: So, uh, is it me, or did Stephen Colbert write the italicized portion of the profile? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:01, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yes, but WHERE was that from? I'm blanking, and I dont' have time to sit down and re-read all of TWW to find it, I just got Angelig Days v1, and I have a date with Kowaru slashiness!
::I like to cap off my character biographies with something that sums them up. I can't HELP that this one was inherently hilarious. Prime learnign to trust his heart but USE his fists was the entire damn point of The War Within.
::I should go back and cut down that top entry, I bet you could cut 40% of the text withotu losing any meaning. It was a bitch to get it all structured, but once in place, it could stand to be trimemd back... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:51, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

== Not Dead Yet ==

Acoording to Alex Milne (the artist) Sentinel didn't die at the end of Megatron Origin. But like much of his artwork it is kinda hard to tell.

http://forum.idwpublishing.com/viewtopic.php?t=2612

Here is the quote .....with sentinel prime, he's different then nova, and optimus. he's a brute. also, he's not dead yet. he won't die for a while still. but he has been beaten badly."<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Sentinel Prime (G1)

2007-11-02T04:13:26Z

97.96.60.132: /* Not Dead Yet */

I think that statement wans't true outside of Dreamwave continuity Walky. Prime-as-leeader-of-the-Autobots didnt' come about until well after SP's death. 'There Shall Come a Leader' and all that said the Autobots were not only led by the High Council, but they also commanded the military. Optimus Prime beign named Commander-in-Chief of the army was the turning point of the war. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:07, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
: Isn't there a Marvel UK panel of Sentinel Prime passing the Matrix to Optimus? That's the only full-body shot we've ever got of him. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:09, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

...you mean like the one I uploaded 2 minutes ago? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:11, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
: What I'm saying is he looks like he's Autobot leader to me. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:15, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

::And I woudl agree with you. He definatelyt was in The War Within. But in Marvel's backstory (at least UK) Optimus Prime was the first TF made leader of the Autobots, which had previously been led by the High Council (one of the reasons for their ineffectiveness.) And that's jsut the army. NEITHER had been civil leader. (Well, Prime possibly was followign Xaaron's death.)
:::I'd argue that Sentinel Prime was still Autobot leader even though he had a council to answer to. Is UT Optimus Prime not Autobot leader? He has a council of ancients who can veto him as well. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:28, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Good point, and well said. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:42, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

There's a fairly lengthy list of Sentinel Prime's abilities and weapons in the Keepers Trilogy. I plan to put that in his main section since he's such a ciper. Any objections? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:22, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

...and why was he unsuccessful? because he died? Optimus Prime died, does that make him unsuccessful? What about the Primes that reigned during times of peace? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:30, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:Because everyone said he was. Everyone specifically said Sentinel Prime (and all the others) did a piss-poor job. Megatron slaughtered them. It was only Optimus who did a good job. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:36, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

::Really, I could have sworn that Sentinel Prime was Prime before war started, and thus Megatron had slaughtered, at max, one Prime before Optimus. When did {{Template:Tooltip|everyone|Was it Bluestreak? He says lots of things...}} say this? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:40, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:::A fairly big point is made that none of the previous Primes were military leaders. They were without "clout," as Grimlock put it. They just weren't very good, and it was Optimus who turned the tide of the war. Apparently archivists are great military leaders or something. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:51, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In Dreamwave continuity, there were only 2 more primes prior to Sentinel Prime (not counting Prima) at leat one of which was not deactivated, but instead 'left for parts unknown.'
::::Your very argument, that Sentinel Prime did a 'piss poor job' adnd wasn't suited to beign a war leader lends itself to the belief he'd been appointed PRIOR to the begining of the war. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:48, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:::::Actually, my belief was that the Matrix just chose shitty Primes. (Which works with what you say the Keepers Trilogy may have been suggesting.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 03:52, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::How does 'Megatron chose Optronix to be a shitty Prime' translate into 'the matrix chose him to be a shitty Prime'?
::::::And it's not suggesting- it's pretty explicit.

<DIV STYLE="nargin:10px;background:#eeeeee;padding:10px;">"Sentinel Prime," Optimus choaked. He was looking up into the face of his predecessor, and he could only imagine the Autobot's shame and disgust.

"I'm not a ghost," Sentinel Prime said. "I'm as real as anything else in your mind, and to your senses. The Matrix within you chose this form to communicate with you."

Optimus almost laughed. This wasn't happening. It couldn't be happening; "Not the best time..."

"You were right to think that an error was made. It never should have been you, Optimus. You should have been free to choose the life you would lead. This burden of leadership had been meant for another. It is only after many years of detailed self-diagnostic routines that the flaw has become apparent."

"No..."

"You need to hear this, Optimus," Sentinel Prime said calmly. "You were chosen to fail. Chosen by Megatron himself."</DIV>

::::::Now, you CAN attempt to say that the Matrix is basically... messign with him. Tryign to shock him back to awareness. (Prime had been deep in a crisis of confidence and badly wounded, was basically considering 'letting go' and letting Megatron finish him off.) The next thing SP says is that- just because Prime had been chosen to fail doesnt' mean he should let Megatron kill him here and now.
::::::The '''problem''' with this argument is that Prime is obesessed with this idea that he wasn't meant to be Prime for all of book 1. And when he finally overcomes this confidence, he does not conclude the message was false, he jsut concludes it doesnt' matter if hr wwas the wrong choice 'at the time,' he's grown into someoen who can fill the role.
::::::Besides, I dont' think the Matrix would encourage Prime to pass the Matrix on to someone else if it was just messing with him, which it did.

::::::It may not have been what Furman meant when he wrote 'rigged the game,' but that's probably what Ciencin was basing it off of. But then, Ciencin probably based the Keepers off a text refernece to the old man from US#60 in the War Within. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:16, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

===Rigged the game===
Again, Derik, you read weird things into pretty straight-forward dialogue. I'm pretty sure the only game he means is battle. War is his, he invented it, yadda yadda yadda. It's common Furman-style rhetoric. I don't really see the conspiracy theory, and I'm puzzled even further how Megatron could rig the Matrix to choose Optromix, especially since he spends the whole first miniseries trying to get the dang thing. If he can manipulate it that deeply from afar, why the hell bother? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:51, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I think it's stupid too. But according the Keepers Trilogy, the claim is real. Or rather, after all the smoke and confusion over the robotic Sentinel Prime underiming Optimus Prime's confidence settled- it emerged that the original vision, which claimed Megatron has chosen Optronix to be Prime in order that he would fail (and thus Megatron would get the Matrix) actually WAS a real vision projected by the Matrix.

So... yeah. You can delete the italicised claim if it suits you, bit it at least fits that otherwise rather ODD bit fromt he books, and makes it seem more like he just pushed them to choose the records-clerk. "He'll be easy." -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:04, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

==Umlauts are Cool==
NEW DISCUSSION TOPIC!

do you think that the evil clone of Hot Rod, as one of Megatron's 'diabolical clones' used diacriticals to distinguish himself from the original?

You know, like: '''Höt Röd''' ?

Was there some point when characters discussed Sentinal Prime and said he had 'a good head on his shoulders- well, he USED to?' Or am I totally remembering somethign that never happened? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:08, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
: "Sentinel Prime, he had his head screwed on." "Not at the end, he didn't."
: So, uh, is it me, or did Stephen Colbert write the italicized portion of the profile? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:01, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yes, but WHERE was that from? I'm blanking, and I dont' have time to sit down and re-read all of TWW to find it, I just got Angelig Days v1, and I have a date with Kowaru slashiness!
::I like to cap off my character biographies with something that sums them up. I can't HELP that this one was inherently hilarious. Prime learnign to trust his heart but USE his fists was the entire damn point of The War Within.
::I should go back and cut down that top entry, I bet you could cut 40% of the text withotu losing any meaning. It was a bitch to get it all structured, but once in place, it could stand to be trimemd back... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:51, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

== Not Dead Yet ==

Acoording to Alex Milne (the artist) Sentinel didn't die at the end of Megatron Origin. But like much of his artwork it is kinda hard to tell.

http://forum.idwpublishing.com/viewtopic.php?t=2612

Here the quote .....with sentinel prime, he's different then nova, and optimus. he's a brute. also, he's not dead yet. he won't die for a while still. but he has been beaten badly."<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Sentinel Prime (G1)

2007-11-02T04:11:57Z

97.96.60.132: Undo revision 111601 by Detour (Talk)

{{disambig2|Optimus Prime's predecssor in the comics|Optimus Prime's predecessor in the original cartoon|U-Haul Robot}}
{{disambig3|Sentinel}}
{{disambig3|Prime}}

:''Sentinel Prime was an [[Autobot]] leader in several portions of the [[Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].

'''Sentinel Prime''' was [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime's]] immediate predecessor as [[Prime (rank)|Autobot leader]].

''(His physical appearance and attitude toward war vary between continuities, though his color scheme has stayed surprisingly consistent. See below:)''

==Fiction==

===Marvel Comics continuity===

[[Image:Sentinel prime lou.jpg|thumb|left|150px|Well, shoot, who wants the Matrix?]]

Sentinel Prime is mentioned frequently in the recitation of Primes before Optimus, but little or nothing is known of him.

:''(Note: The retelling of [[Unicron|Unicron's]] origin in the UK comics included a brief glimpse of a dying Matrix bearer passing the [[Matrix of Leadership]] to Optimus Prime. However, as he is unnamed, his identity is presumptive as we are told later that Sentinel Prime was the leader before Optimus. See image to the left.)''

----

===Dreamwave comics continuity===

:'' Sentinel Prime's biggest shortcoming is that he leads with his head, a peacetime leader in a time of war. His successor, Optimus Prime, leads with his heart, backed by his fists— a much more suitable combination.''

Sentinel Prime was Autobot leader for the first 500,000 years of the [[Great War]]. More physically massive than Optimus Prime, Sentinel Prime's armor was made of trithyllium alloy impregnated with irradiated carbon fibers, unbreakable short of a precisely-aimed point-blank shot.

Sentinel Prime's primary weapons were his swiveling shoulder cannons, capable of firing a variety of specialized payloads including concussive and shrapnel-needle shells, and gyro-inhibiting and magnetic inducer shells. (Disruptive warheads which foul an opponent's systems.) He was also armed with a solar-energy rifle and an energon-charged sword.

Sentinel Prime used an [[electro-disrupter]], a device capable of projecting several copies of his image, to disorient his opponents in battle. When interrupted, electro-disrupter images de-rez, leaving a visible path back to the real projector. Because using direct attacks would reveal which image was the real Sentinel Prime, he must limit himself to indirect weapons like shrapnel shells when using it.

Sentinel Prime's only physical weakness was his shoulder-cannons. A direct hit down their barrel could cause the ammunition inside to explode, causing catastrophic damage. To minimize that risk, he swivels the cannons to his back except when about to fire. <ref>Nearly all of his technical specifications come from descriptions found in the Keepers Trilogy.</ref>

[[Image:Sentinel prime dw.jpg|thumb|"Marley was dead to begin with..."]]

====The War Within====
8.2 million years ago, Sentinel Prime went to reason with [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]], seeking to reach him with sermon and doctrine. He failed and was tortured and destroyed by Megatron. Megatron was chagrined to discover that Sentinel Prime (suspecting he may be killed) had not brought the Matrix with him into battle.

====[[Keepers Trilogy|The Keepers Trilogy]]====
The Matrix used a vision of Sentinel Prime to strengthen Optimus Prime's resolve during a battle with Megatron by confronting him with the claim that Megatron had chosen Optimus to be Prime, knowing that he was weak. Megatron's alleged influence over the Prime selection process was never substantiated.

[[Keepers|The Keepers]] subsequently created a robotic duplicate of Sentinel Prime to confuse Optimus and undermine his confidence. Though possessing all of Sentinel Prime's considerable abilities, Optimus eventually realized that the duplicate had been created from his own memories of Sentinel Prime, and was incapable of doing anything ''new.'' Optimus destroyed the duplicate of Sentinel Prime, having largely overcome his own doubts about his fitness to be Autobot leader.

----

===IDW comics continuity===
{{spoiler}}

[[Image:IDWSent.gif|thumb|120px|right|Do I look pacifistic enough yet?]]

:''The original IDW Sentinel Prime sketch included in [[Spotlight: Optimus Prime]] was clearly based on his first (and otherwise only) appearance in the Marvel comics panel shown above. Though his resemblance as drawn in Megatron: Origin is less distinctly similar due to artistic interpretation and the helmet Milne draws him wearing. He also definitely resembles, by and large, the Keepers description of the character, in that he is quite heavily armed. However the keen interest he shows in the use of those weapons and combat in general seem a stark contrast to the "peacetime leader unsuitable for war" portrayed in that continuity. IDW Sentinel is more likely to smash you with his [[Apex armor]] than try to ply you with doctrine.''

[[Image:IDWSentface.gif|thumb|150px|left|That comes in "Optimus Prime" and "Marvel Comics" inspired varieties...]]

Sentinel Prime assumed office after the disappearance of [[Nova Prime]] into the [[Benzuli Expanse]].

In the ancient past of Cybertron's peacetime, Sentinel Prime operated out of the [[Security Services HQ]] in [[Kaon]], generally regarded as "the worst place on Cybertron." Prime had much disdain for government authority, viewing the ruling [[Senate|Senators]] to be spoiled whiners. He worked alongside [[Prowl (G1)|Prowl]], his [[second-in-command|lieutenant]]. {{storylink|Megatron Origin, Part 1}}

After a surge in illegal gladiatorial bloodsport, he assigned [[Bumper]] and [[Fastback]] to stake out one of the sites associated with the matches as part of a dragnet. Unfortunately, their communications were jammed by [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]] just prior to their untimely demises.{{storylink|Megatron Origin, Part 2}}

[[Image:IDW_SentPrime_Apexarmor.jpg|thumb|left|150px|Don't tread on me, or I'll [[slag (slang)|slag]] you.]]

Vowing not to let their deaths be in vain, Sentinel Prime urged others to let their deaths be a call to arms. Eventually, after Senator [[Decimus]] was kidnapped by the [[Seeker]]s at Megatron's orders, Sentinel Prime led a raid on Megatron's base. They captured most of them, but were forced to free Soundwave per Senate directive. {{storylink|Megatron Origin, Part 3}}

[[Image:Sentineltruck.gif|thumb|150px|right|Being Prime requires that your [[Alternate mode|altmode]] have at least six wheels and a trailer. [[Optimus Prime (G1)|It's]] [[Hot Rod|tradition]].]]

When [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]]'s "betrayal" led to the eventual eruption of the war, Sentinel Prime held the line at Kaon until he decided to take things to the next level. Thus Prime returned with his massive "Apex" mode, a battle-armor/super-powerful/more-firepower-than-[[Primus|god]] mode. It didn't make much of a difference, seeing as Megatron tore into it and pulled Prime off a cliff.
Sentinel was deafeated by Megatron. Afterwards, the former Prime's barely functional body was dumped into the middle of the Autobot forces. Prowl ordered a retreat. We would too. {{storylink|Megatron Origin, part 4}}

{{-}}

==Trivia==

*As revealed in the [[Transformers Collectors' Club]] roundtable panel at [[BotCon 2007]], the original concept for the convention-[[exclusive]] redeco of [[Cybertron Defense Team|Cybertron Defense]] [[Hot Shot (Armada)|Hot Shot]] was Sentinel Prime. The mold DOES bear a decent resemblence to his IDW appearence, but in the end it was decided that [[Springer]] was a better choice for the mold (and likely for the [[Hasbro Transformers Collectors' Club (comic)|ongoing club comic]] story).

==Footnotes==

<references/>

[[Category: Autobot leaders]]
[[Category: Generation 1 characters]]
[[Category: Autobots]]
[[Category: Matrix bearers]]
[[Category: Comic-only characters]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Sentinel Prime (G1)

2007-11-02T04:10:16Z

97.96.60.132: Not Dead Yet

I think that statement wans't true outside of Dreamwave continuity Walky. Prime-as-leeader-of-the-Autobots didnt' come about until well after SP's death. 'There Shall Come a Leader' and all that said the Autobots were not only led by the High Council, but they also commanded the military. Optimus Prime beign named Commander-in-Chief of the army was the turning point of the war. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:07, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
: Isn't there a Marvel UK panel of Sentinel Prime passing the Matrix to Optimus? That's the only full-body shot we've ever got of him. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:09, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

...you mean like the one I uploaded 2 minutes ago? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:11, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
: What I'm saying is he looks like he's Autobot leader to me. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:15, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

::And I woudl agree with you. He definatelyt was in The War Within. But in Marvel's backstory (at least UK) Optimus Prime was the first TF made leader of the Autobots, which had previously been led by the High Council (one of the reasons for their ineffectiveness.) And that's jsut the army. NEITHER had been civil leader. (Well, Prime possibly was followign Xaaron's death.)
:::I'd argue that Sentinel Prime was still Autobot leader even though he had a council to answer to. Is UT Optimus Prime not Autobot leader? He has a council of ancients who can veto him as well. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:28, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Good point, and well said. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:42, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

There's a fairly lengthy list of Sentinel Prime's abilities and weapons in the Keepers Trilogy. I plan to put that in his main section since he's such a ciper. Any objections? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:22, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

...and why was he unsuccessful? because he died? Optimus Prime died, does that make him unsuccessful? What about the Primes that reigned during times of peace? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:30, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:Because everyone said he was. Everyone specifically said Sentinel Prime (and all the others) did a piss-poor job. Megatron slaughtered them. It was only Optimus who did a good job. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:36, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

::Really, I could have sworn that Sentinel Prime was Prime before war started, and thus Megatron had slaughtered, at max, one Prime before Optimus. When did {{Template:Tooltip|everyone|Was it Bluestreak? He says lots of things...}} say this? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:40, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:::A fairly big point is made that none of the previous Primes were military leaders. They were without "clout," as Grimlock put it. They just weren't very good, and it was Optimus who turned the tide of the war. Apparently archivists are great military leaders or something. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:51, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In Dreamwave continuity, there were only 2 more primes prior to Sentinel Prime (not counting Prima) at leat one of which was not deactivated, but instead 'left for parts unknown.'
::::Your very argument, that Sentinel Prime did a 'piss poor job' adnd wasn't suited to beign a war leader lends itself to the belief he'd been appointed PRIOR to the begining of the war. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:48, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:::::Actually, my belief was that the Matrix just chose shitty Primes. (Which works with what you say the Keepers Trilogy may have been suggesting.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 03:52, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::How does 'Megatron chose Optronix to be a shitty Prime' translate into 'the matrix chose him to be a shitty Prime'?
::::::And it's not suggesting- it's pretty explicit.

<DIV STYLE="nargin:10px;background:#eeeeee;padding:10px;">"Sentinel Prime," Optimus choaked. He was looking up into the face of his predecessor, and he could only imagine the Autobot's shame and disgust.

"I'm not a ghost," Sentinel Prime said. "I'm as real as anything else in your mind, and to your senses. The Matrix within you chose this form to communicate with you."

Optimus almost laughed. This wasn't happening. It couldn't be happening; "Not the best time..."

"You were right to think that an error was made. It never should have been you, Optimus. You should have been free to choose the life you would lead. This burden of leadership had been meant for another. It is only after many years of detailed self-diagnostic routines that the flaw has become apparent."

"No..."

"You need to hear this, Optimus," Sentinel Prime said calmly. "You were chosen to fail. Chosen by Megatron himself."</DIV>

::::::Now, you CAN attempt to say that the Matrix is basically... messign with him. Tryign to shock him back to awareness. (Prime had been deep in a crisis of confidence and badly wounded, was basically considering 'letting go' and letting Megatron finish him off.) The next thing SP says is that- just because Prime had been chosen to fail doesnt' mean he should let Megatron kill him here and now.
::::::The '''problem''' with this argument is that Prime is obesessed with this idea that he wasn't meant to be Prime for all of book 1. And when he finally overcomes this confidence, he does not conclude the message was false, he jsut concludes it doesnt' matter if hr wwas the wrong choice 'at the time,' he's grown into someoen who can fill the role.
::::::Besides, I dont' think the Matrix would encourage Prime to pass the Matrix on to someone else if it was just messing with him, which it did.

::::::It may not have been what Furman meant when he wrote 'rigged the game,' but that's probably what Ciencin was basing it off of. But then, Ciencin probably based the Keepers off a text refernece to the old man from US#60 in the War Within. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:16, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

===Rigged the game===
Again, Derik, you read weird things into pretty straight-forward dialogue. I'm pretty sure the only game he means is battle. War is his, he invented it, yadda yadda yadda. It's common Furman-style rhetoric. I don't really see the conspiracy theory, and I'm puzzled even further how Megatron could rig the Matrix to choose Optromix, especially since he spends the whole first miniseries trying to get the dang thing. If he can manipulate it that deeply from afar, why the hell bother? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:51, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I think it's stupid too. But according the Keepers Trilogy, the claim is real. Or rather, after all the smoke and confusion over the robotic Sentinel Prime underiming Optimus Prime's confidence settled- it emerged that the original vision, which claimed Megatron has chosen Optronix to be Prime in order that he would fail (and thus Megatron would get the Matrix) actually WAS a real vision projected by the Matrix.

So... yeah. You can delete the italicised claim if it suits you, bit it at least fits that otherwise rather ODD bit fromt he books, and makes it seem more like he just pushed them to choose the records-clerk. "He'll be easy." -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:04, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

==Umlauts are Cool==
NEW DISCUSSION TOPIC!

do you think that the evil clone of Hot Rod, as one of Megatron's 'diabolical clones' used diacriticals to distinguish himself from the original?

You know, like: '''Höt Röd''' ?

Was there some point when characters discussed Sentinal Prime and said he had 'a good head on his shoulders- well, he USED to?' Or am I totally remembering somethign that never happened? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:08, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
: "Sentinel Prime, he had his head screwed on." "Not at the end, he didn't."
: So, uh, is it me, or did Stephen Colbert write the italicized portion of the profile? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:01, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yes, but WHERE was that from? I'm blanking, and I dont' have time to sit down and re-read all of TWW to find it, I just got Angelig Days v1, and I have a date with Kowaru slashiness!
::I like to cap off my character biographies with something that sums them up. I can't HELP that this one was inherently hilarious. Prime learnign to trust his heart but USE his fists was the entire damn point of The War Within.
::I should go back and cut down that top entry, I bet you could cut 40% of the text withotu losing any meaning. It was a bitch to get it all structured, but once in place, it could stand to be trimemd back... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:51, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

== Not Dead Yet ==

Acoording to Alex Milne (the artist) Sentinel didn't die at the end of Megatron Origin. But like much of his artwork it is kinda hard to tell.

http://forum.idwpublishing.com/viewtopic.php?t=2612<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Sentinel Prime (G1)

2007-11-02T04:01:04Z

97.96.60.132: /* IDW comics continuity */