MediaWiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Starscream clone (Animated)

2009-04-13T08:08:11Z

98.223.230.49: /* Flavors */

=="G1 redeco will be a store exclusive"==
Any idea which store will be getting the exclusive? Perhaps Target because they got the movie g1 starscream redeco?--[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 16:34, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

:I put in that piece of trivia, and I don't know which store will carry it. all I've been told was that the guys at BotCon said they will release the mold in all the shown color schemes (and what I read they had shown Starscream together with his clones, which were in G1 seeker colors of Thundercracker, Skywarp and Starscream), and that the one in G1 SS colors would be a store exclusive, they also said that they love bringing out the seeker mold of each line in all three color variations.[[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 13:57, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
:: Ah, ok. I can't wait till they are in all stores. I have a feeling these figures are gonna be some BAMFs :D --[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 02:33, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
::Who said this and when? It certainly wasn't at a panel, and I don't think this should be here if we don't have a source. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 02:43, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

==Army-Building reference in the trivia==

*The [[Army-building|Starscream clones]] clearly only exist [[to sell toys]]

I think that is prefect for the trivia. The fact that there is a lot of seemingly same deco(A) starscreams makes it seem like hasbro is encouraging army building of the Starscream figure. The fact that because of the movie line, the toys and episode doesn't line up seems irrelevant to me. As does [[A Prime Problem]]. We are all very aware that the fictions only purpose is [[to sell toys]]. If in the fiction there are numerous identical starscreams, I think the connection is obvious.
[[Image:Lotta starscreams.jpg | thumb | left |(A)]]

--[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 23:19, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
{{-}}
:There is no reason to believe that the clone army is a toy-sales-driven move. We've seen no altered-color-clone redecoes announced, which would be the big indicator... and at this stage, odds are appropriate redecoes would be created-after-the-fact items like the Premium movie toys. I really can't fathom Hasbro going "hey Marty, make Starscream clone himself so we can encourage multiple-buying of this one toy." It is far, far, FAR more likely that the genesis of the clone story is the simple "wouldn't it be neat to reference this thing that happened in G1, just like how Starscream died but came back". To claim unambiguously that it's a toy-sales-driven move is weak and tenuous at best. "To sell toys" is kind of dependent on "toy first". If Hasbro REALLY wanted to go that route, one of the clones would have been Skywarp, who we HAVE seen officialy announced as a toy... and Hasbro said he wasn't intended to be a show character. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 04:49, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
::And, sad to say, it's the most logical approach to a bunch of guys with the same body type. Bit more interesting take on it than G1, even. Having an army of them has an in-story purpose, and having them all resemble Starscream is easily explained by his vanity. This being a continuity that, aside from some noteworthy exceptions, has largely unique body types for each character.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 05:27, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

:::I guess I see your point M Sipher. I still believe it should be noted somewhere that that photo I labeled (a) seems to encourage [[army-building]]. I now think my phrasing it as "clearly only exist" is probably wildly inaccurate, but again i think it should be noted. Also, i think that when the writers where coming up with the story for Animated, they probably expected the toys releases to coincide with airing. Like Soundwave being in wave 2 since he appeared late in season 1. Stupid Allspark Power line, I blame you for all my problems!

Also, Rosicrucian, i am not quite sure which side you are supporting :/

cheers!--[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 22:21, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:I am saying that even on the chance that this is "to sell toys" it has more solid fictional support than... well... nearly all past Seeker redecos.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:28, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

::::I think we should add this to Trivia instead.

::::* Starscream is clearly an [[Army_building|Army Builder]].
::::: And is the Yoda quote really needed here? We're using it as the caption on the pic in the Fist Full of Energon Main article.[[User:Shadow Mask Prime|Shadow Mask Prime]] 12:04, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Yea really, the clone wars thing is really out of place here. And yea, Starscream is clearly an [[Army-building|Army Builder]] works well too.--[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 19:18, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

==Clone V clone==

Ok, I checked. Terms like drone or jet or whatever are always started with a capital. In fact I couldn't find one similar themed page where all the words didn't have capitals in em [[User:GWolfv2]] 15.51 May26th
:EVERY ARTICLE ON THE WIKI starts with a capital letter. But if subsequent terms in the article title are not proper nouns, they stay lower case. This is a well established policy (see [[:Category:Nameless things]] for some examples.) Quit tryin' to fight it. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 15:06, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

::Clearly it should be lowercase. however, shouldn't it be Starscream clones since the article talks about more then one? i mean after all it is an army of them. and the page goes into further detail about specific ones.--[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 22:25, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

:::Yes and no. Yes in that it would be more logical, no in that everything's put in the singular so that you can type <nowiki>[[Starscream clone]]s</nowiki> to produce [[Starscream clone]]s as a link, but would have to do <nowiki>[[Starscream clones|Starscream clone]]</nowiki> if it was the other way around. It sacrifices the logical page title for ease of linking (not a convention I agree with, but one well established...) - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 15:22, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
::::It's singular because it talks about a type of character, the Starscream clone. Or, at least, it's supposed to. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 20:58, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

== G1 references ==

I'm not sure we should put those in for these guys, unless we get something beyond coloring (hopefully, they'll get real names when released as toys, or at least much better clues) - I mean, the coloring doesn't even fit that well for either of them (G1 Starscream definitely wasn't brickred/brown, and Skywarp has, if anything, reversed coloring), and they don't seem to share any personality similarities either.

Plus, the Clone that fits Skywarp the best looks like it appears as part of the whole army, anyway.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 02:24, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
:Reddish brown Starscream is clearly based off of G1 Starscream, and his personality as the manipulator makes perfect sense. The coward seems more like Armada Skywarp. AniScream doesn't have as varied a colour scheme as G1 btw, so you really only have two colours to changed, his grey and his purple. As for personalities, they embody elements of Starscream. Giving one a Skywarp personality makes no sense [[User:GWolfv2]] 20.42 May 28th
::People have claimed that all sorts of things are "clearly" references that goddamn aren't, this included. The only thing that's "clear" is that people are reaching desperately for references. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:43, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
::You're very testy about this. I know why, but still...anyway, you assume they aren't, I assume they are(at least the second clone). And the world keeps spinning [[User:GWolfv2]] 22.02 May 28th

::: well, that was clearly a jab at me with the "clearly" bit. I just like to say clearly. and obviously. I am totally gonna try to work the word clearly into like all my talk page comments for no reason now :D. At least i am staying with-in the line with mine. i am not like omg that is SO a refrence to gurrenlaggan or what ever. I was saying that the starscream clones, especially in that first pic on the page, evoke thoughts of the common fan tendency to [[Army-building|build armies]]. Whatever, i dont even know why i wrote all this. i guess i am in a ranty mood. Cheers! --[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 19:49, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
::::ok, that "well, that was clearly" thing wasn't even intentional! see what I mean?--[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 19:51, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

== Spongescream and Patrick ==

Was Starscream forgetting Bulkhead's name supposed to be a joke about how they are best friends on SBSQ? Or was it a reference to when Starscream first appeared, and I'm just crazy?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 02:50, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

:: Maybe it was a reference to the fact that Bulkhead is the only one who doesn't have a G1 counterpart. After all, it's the "G1 color hommage" clone.
:::If thats true, then thats really funny and pretty cool. also, sign your comments. --[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 19:44, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:::No it isn't. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 16:03, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
::::It could also be there just to show how transparently deceptive that particular clone was. Why does everything have to be a reference? [[User:(Undecided)|(Undecided)]] 22:30, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::I am of the opinion that the redish/brown starscream clone is a g1 homage. Its kinda just a matter of opinion, so maybe we should not argue or say things like "No it isnt" because it very well could be. Its not particularly relevant so step off it. --[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 02:37, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
::::::If it were a G1 homage, it would have had some blue on it, instead of just being a yellow-shift of the usual scheme. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:39, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

== Captions ==

Alright, whoever chose the new captions is full of win. Though may I ask: what does the main caption refer to? I assume it's Red Dwarf related, judging by the following two captions. But in case it isn't - what is it? Oh, and this is my first comment-thingo, so yeah. [[User:Bobpiecheese|Bobpiecheese]] 10:43, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
:If I'm reading it right, that would be the Imperial March from Star Wars. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 12:36, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
::That's what I thought, but it doesn't quite scan right near the end. Maybe it's too long, maybe it's just me. My bet's on the latter :P [[User:Bobpiecheese|Bobpiecheese]] 13:38, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
:I added the Rimmer captions, but not the other two. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 13:39, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Wouldn't it be more appropriate to reference the Ace Rimmer planet somehow for the main image? Something like "Are you really going to be the one to break the chain?"[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 08:31, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

==Flavors==

I am rather fond of the idea of referring to each Starscream clone as a different flavor in relation to the colors they are in the captions of the screengrabs. It would be nice to see a consistent joke applied to them. Of-course, it probably would only work if/when we get more starscream clones. I got the idea from the original captions for the two images, grape jelly starscream and cherry jelly starscream. an Example, say there is a starscream clone that is pink, he could be Bubblegum Starscream. and if there is an off-white, he could be vanillia, if there is a green clone (perhaps with yellow accents) he could be Lemon-Lime Starscream. I, of-course, only think we should refer to them as these in captions, i dont mean in our episode descriptions. it would be kinda odd to have hypothetical pink starscream clone refered to as Bubblegum Starscream in his/episode in which he hypothetically appears in's description. What do you guys think? When and if we get more it would be funny to have a full set of flavors of starscreams right. --[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 21:39, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

:I've been picking out Rimmer captions for (hypothetical, of course) future individualised clones... - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 22:44, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

:: I am not familiar with this "rimmer" you speak of. I hadn't really understood the captions (the result being i wasnt satisfied with them) because of it probably. After looking it up, i see its from Red Dwarf, which i am completely unfamiliar with. I like to think of myself as somwhat of a sci-fi connoisseur, but i had never heard of it. You dont suppose it might be a bit too obscure (at least, for this audience)? --[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 00:22, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

:::I wouldn't say it's 'obscure'. I'd just say 'British' (that's where the show comes from)[[User:Bobpiecheese|Bobpiecheese]] 04:37, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

::::In reference to your first post Skyglide, do you think that you used "hypothetical" a wee too much? I just wanted to get that out there.--[[User:AWT88|AWT88]] 22:41, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

::::: I am familiar with much british sci-fi, Doctor Who, Torchwood, and Hyperdrive being among my favorites. I actually did some further research, apparently its QUITE popular and well known. some how i just missed it lol.
And about hypothetical, i dont want to get pegged for being all like "hey we dont know if there are gonna be more diff colored clones, SPOILERS!" so i wanted to make it clear that i am not talking about existing charcters we dont know about. --[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 02:27, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

::::::Wait, I only said hypothetical twice....--[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 02:43, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

== Five Servos of Doom ==

From Unicron.com interview:

me: Are we going to get any sense of resolution to where all the couple thousand protoforms went after Lockdown's stint in 5 Servos of Doom?
derrickjwyatt: If you've seen all of TFA season two, it is possible to figure it out from that alone.

Can we take this as a pretty obvious hint that the army of clones are the stolen protoforms?[[Special:Contributions/98.223.230.49|98.223.230.49]] 04:07, 13 April 2009 (EDT)

Talk:Starscream clone (Animated)

2009-04-13T08:07:51Z

98.223.230.49: /* Five Servos of Doom */ new section

=="G1 redeco will be a store exclusive"==
Any idea which store will be getting the exclusive? Perhaps Target because they got the movie g1 starscream redeco?--[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 16:34, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

:I put in that piece of trivia, and I don't know which store will carry it. all I've been told was that the guys at BotCon said they will release the mold in all the shown color schemes (and what I read they had shown Starscream together with his clones, which were in G1 seeker colors of Thundercracker, Skywarp and Starscream), and that the one in G1 SS colors would be a store exclusive, they also said that they love bringing out the seeker mold of each line in all three color variations.[[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 13:57, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
:: Ah, ok. I can't wait till they are in all stores. I have a feeling these figures are gonna be some BAMFs :D --[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 02:33, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
::Who said this and when? It certainly wasn't at a panel, and I don't think this should be here if we don't have a source. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 02:43, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

==Army-Building reference in the trivia==

*The [[Army-building|Starscream clones]] clearly only exist [[to sell toys]]

I think that is prefect for the trivia. The fact that there is a lot of seemingly same deco(A) starscreams makes it seem like hasbro is encouraging army building of the Starscream figure. The fact that because of the movie line, the toys and episode doesn't line up seems irrelevant to me. As does [[A Prime Problem]]. We are all very aware that the fictions only purpose is [[to sell toys]]. If in the fiction there are numerous identical starscreams, I think the connection is obvious.
[[Image:Lotta starscreams.jpg | thumb | left |(A)]]

--[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 23:19, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
{{-}}
:There is no reason to believe that the clone army is a toy-sales-driven move. We've seen no altered-color-clone redecoes announced, which would be the big indicator... and at this stage, odds are appropriate redecoes would be created-after-the-fact items like the Premium movie toys. I really can't fathom Hasbro going "hey Marty, make Starscream clone himself so we can encourage multiple-buying of this one toy." It is far, far, FAR more likely that the genesis of the clone story is the simple "wouldn't it be neat to reference this thing that happened in G1, just like how Starscream died but came back". To claim unambiguously that it's a toy-sales-driven move is weak and tenuous at best. "To sell toys" is kind of dependent on "toy first". If Hasbro REALLY wanted to go that route, one of the clones would have been Skywarp, who we HAVE seen officialy announced as a toy... and Hasbro said he wasn't intended to be a show character. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 04:49, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
::And, sad to say, it's the most logical approach to a bunch of guys with the same body type. Bit more interesting take on it than G1, even. Having an army of them has an in-story purpose, and having them all resemble Starscream is easily explained by his vanity. This being a continuity that, aside from some noteworthy exceptions, has largely unique body types for each character.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 05:27, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

:::I guess I see your point M Sipher. I still believe it should be noted somewhere that that photo I labeled (a) seems to encourage [[army-building]]. I now think my phrasing it as "clearly only exist" is probably wildly inaccurate, but again i think it should be noted. Also, i think that when the writers where coming up with the story for Animated, they probably expected the toys releases to coincide with airing. Like Soundwave being in wave 2 since he appeared late in season 1. Stupid Allspark Power line, I blame you for all my problems!

Also, Rosicrucian, i am not quite sure which side you are supporting :/

cheers!--[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 22:21, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:I am saying that even on the chance that this is "to sell toys" it has more solid fictional support than... well... nearly all past Seeker redecos.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:28, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

::::I think we should add this to Trivia instead.

::::* Starscream is clearly an [[Army_building|Army Builder]].
::::: And is the Yoda quote really needed here? We're using it as the caption on the pic in the Fist Full of Energon Main article.[[User:Shadow Mask Prime|Shadow Mask Prime]] 12:04, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Yea really, the clone wars thing is really out of place here. And yea, Starscream is clearly an [[Army-building|Army Builder]] works well too.--[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 19:18, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

==Clone V clone==

Ok, I checked. Terms like drone or jet or whatever are always started with a capital. In fact I couldn't find one similar themed page where all the words didn't have capitals in em [[User:GWolfv2]] 15.51 May26th
:EVERY ARTICLE ON THE WIKI starts with a capital letter. But if subsequent terms in the article title are not proper nouns, they stay lower case. This is a well established policy (see [[:Category:Nameless things]] for some examples.) Quit tryin' to fight it. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 15:06, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

::Clearly it should be lowercase. however, shouldn't it be Starscream clones since the article talks about more then one? i mean after all it is an army of them. and the page goes into further detail about specific ones.--[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 22:25, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

:::Yes and no. Yes in that it would be more logical, no in that everything's put in the singular so that you can type <nowiki>[[Starscream clone]]s</nowiki> to produce [[Starscream clone]]s as a link, but would have to do <nowiki>[[Starscream clones|Starscream clone]]</nowiki> if it was the other way around. It sacrifices the logical page title for ease of linking (not a convention I agree with, but one well established...) - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 15:22, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
::::It's singular because it talks about a type of character, the Starscream clone. Or, at least, it's supposed to. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 20:58, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

== G1 references ==

I'm not sure we should put those in for these guys, unless we get something beyond coloring (hopefully, they'll get real names when released as toys, or at least much better clues) - I mean, the coloring doesn't even fit that well for either of them (G1 Starscream definitely wasn't brickred/brown, and Skywarp has, if anything, reversed coloring), and they don't seem to share any personality similarities either.

Plus, the Clone that fits Skywarp the best looks like it appears as part of the whole army, anyway.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 02:24, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
:Reddish brown Starscream is clearly based off of G1 Starscream, and his personality as the manipulator makes perfect sense. The coward seems more like Armada Skywarp. AniScream doesn't have as varied a colour scheme as G1 btw, so you really only have two colours to changed, his grey and his purple. As for personalities, they embody elements of Starscream. Giving one a Skywarp personality makes no sense [[User:GWolfv2]] 20.42 May 28th
::People have claimed that all sorts of things are "clearly" references that goddamn aren't, this included. The only thing that's "clear" is that people are reaching desperately for references. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:43, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
::You're very testy about this. I know why, but still...anyway, you assume they aren't, I assume they are(at least the second clone). And the world keeps spinning [[User:GWolfv2]] 22.02 May 28th

::: well, that was clearly a jab at me with the "clearly" bit. I just like to say clearly. and obviously. I am totally gonna try to work the word clearly into like all my talk page comments for no reason now :D. At least i am staying with-in the line with mine. i am not like omg that is SO a refrence to gurrenlaggan or what ever. I was saying that the starscream clones, especially in that first pic on the page, evoke thoughts of the common fan tendency to [[Army-building|build armies]]. Whatever, i dont even know why i wrote all this. i guess i am in a ranty mood. Cheers! --[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 19:49, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
::::ok, that "well, that was clearly" thing wasn't even intentional! see what I mean?--[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 19:51, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

== Spongescream and Patrick ==

Was Starscream forgetting Bulkhead's name supposed to be a joke about how they are best friends on SBSQ? Or was it a reference to when Starscream first appeared, and I'm just crazy?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 02:50, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

:: Maybe it was a reference to the fact that Bulkhead is the only one who doesn't have a G1 counterpart. After all, it's the "G1 color hommage" clone.
:::If thats true, then thats really funny and pretty cool. also, sign your comments. --[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 19:44, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:::No it isn't. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 16:03, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
::::It could also be there just to show how transparently deceptive that particular clone was. Why does everything have to be a reference? [[User:(Undecided)|(Undecided)]] 22:30, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::I am of the opinion that the redish/brown starscream clone is a g1 homage. Its kinda just a matter of opinion, so maybe we should not argue or say things like "No it isnt" because it very well could be. Its not particularly relevant so step off it. --[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 02:37, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
::::::If it were a G1 homage, it would have had some blue on it, instead of just being a yellow-shift of the usual scheme. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:39, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

== Captions ==

Alright, whoever chose the new captions is full of win. Though may I ask: what does the main caption refer to? I assume it's Red Dwarf related, judging by the following two captions. But in case it isn't - what is it? Oh, and this is my first comment-thingo, so yeah. [[User:Bobpiecheese|Bobpiecheese]] 10:43, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
:If I'm reading it right, that would be the Imperial March from Star Wars. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 12:36, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
::That's what I thought, but it doesn't quite scan right near the end. Maybe it's too long, maybe it's just me. My bet's on the latter :P [[User:Bobpiecheese|Bobpiecheese]] 13:38, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
:I added the Rimmer captions, but not the other two. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 13:39, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Wouldn't it be more appropriate to reference the Ace Rimmer planet somehow for the main image? Something like "Are you really going to be the one to break the chain?"[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 08:31, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

==Flavors==

I am rather fond of the idea of referring to each Starscream clone as a different flavor in relation to the colors they are in the captions of the screengrabs. It would be nice to see a consistent joke applied to them. Of-course, it probably would only work if/when we get more starscream clones. I got the idea from the original captions for the two images, grape jelly starscream and cherry jelly starscream. an Example, say there is a starscream clone that is pink, he could be Bubblegum Starscream. and if there is an off-white, he could be vanillia, if there is a green clone (perhaps with yellow accents) he could be Lemon-Lime Starscream. I, of-course, only think we should refer to them as these in captions, i dont mean in our episode descriptions. it would be kinda odd to have hypothetical pink starscream clone refered to as Bubblegum Starscream in his/episode in which he hypothetically appears in's description. What do you guys think? When and if we get more it would be funny to have a full set of flavors of starscreams right. --[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 21:39, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

:I've been picking out Rimmer captions for (hypothetical, of course) future individualised clones... - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 22:44, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

:: I am not familiar with this "rimmer" you speak of. I hadn't really understood the captions (the result being i wasnt satisfied with them) because of it probably. After looking it up, i see its from Red Dwarf, which i am completely unfamiliar with. I like to think of myself as somwhat of a sci-fi connoisseur, but i had never heard of it. You dont suppose it might be a bit too obscure (at least, for this audience)? --[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 00:22, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

:::I wouldn't say it's 'obscure'. I'd just say 'British' (that's where the show comes from)[[User:Bobpiecheese|Bobpiecheese]] 04:37, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

::::In reference to your first post Skyglide, do you think that you used "hypothetical" a wee too much? I just wanted to get that out there.--[[User:AWT88|AWT88]] 22:41, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

::::: I am familiar with much british sci-fi, Doctor Who, Torchwood, and Hyperdrive being among my favorites. I actually did some further research, apparently its QUITE popular and well known. some how i just missed it lol.
And about hypothetical, i dont want to get pegged for being all like "hey we dont know if there are gonna be more diff colored clones, SPOILERS!" so i wanted to make it clear that i am not talking about existing charcters we dont know about. --[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 02:27, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

::::::Wait, I only said hypothetical twice....--[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 02:43, 2 June 2008 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"> From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</div>

== Five Servos of Doom ==

From Unicron.com interview:

me: Are we going to get any sense of resolution to where all the couple thousand protoforms went after Lockdown's stint in 5 Servos of Doom?
derrickjwyatt: If you've seen all of TFA season two, it is possible to figure it out from that alone.

Can we take this as a pretty obvious hint that the army of clones are the stolen protoforms?[[Special:Contributions/98.223.230.49|98.223.230.49]] 04:07, 13 April 2009 (EDT)

Talk:Dirt Boss (Animated)

2009-03-24T03:41:55Z

98.223.230.49: /* Lagann */ new section

== Bombshell? ==

Would it be worth pointing out that he seems to be a homage to G1 [[Bombshell]]? I mean he has his ability of controlling other bots, and those drill shells even shoot out of his head, just like Bombshell he even has a similar body build.[[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 15:19, 21 March 2009 (EDT)
:His personality isn't anything like Bombshell and he doesn't look very much like him to me, but it would be worth noting that he uses [[cerebro-shell]]s. I think it is safe to say that those are cerebro-shells. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 15:57, 21 March 2009 (EDT)
::I wouldn't, because they only control a bot's motor functions, not their minds. His victims are pretty clearly fully conscious of what's going on around them. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 16:39, 21 March 2009 (EDT)

== Megatron's influence ==

That fork lift was possibly in the vicinity of Megatron's head at some point, and he was known to take over Sumdac's equipment from time to time. It's a huge stretch, but it's a potential justification for him being 'born' a Decepticon. [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 00:57, 22 March 2009 (EDT)

Or maybe his Decepticon side comes from Starscream, whose body has been possessed by the Headmaster unit right before the accident. Or maybe both.--[[Special:Contributions/213.49.81.110|213.49.81.110]] 05:43, 22 March 2009 (EDT)

== Lagann ==

Could someone provide a link for the Twitter bit? I can't find it, and I wanted to add it to the wikipedia article. - KrytenKoro[[Special:Contributions/98.223.230.49|98.223.230.49]] 23:41, 23 March 2009 (EDT)

Mainframe (Animated)

2009-03-22T03:16:30Z

98.223.230.49:

{{disambig3|Mainframe}}
:''Mainframe is an [[Autobot|Autobot]] from the [[Transformers Animated (franchise)|Transformers Animated]] [[Continuity family|continuity family]].''

[[Image:Ani-ManframeModel.jpg|right|250px|thumb|"Mainframe, transform and roll out! "...But I can't..."]]
'''Mainframe''' is a techy guy, working with the [[Ministry of Science]] on some very top-secret projects for the [[Cybertron Elite Guard]].

==Fiction==
===''Animated'' cartoon===
Years ago, Mainframe and [[Highbrow (Animated)|Highbrow]] were working on the memory-wiped [[Arcee (Animated)|Arcee]], trying to retrieve the [[Omega Supreme (Animated)|Project Omega]] data feared lost when she was captured by [[Lockdown|Lockdown]]. He was present when Arcee's failsafe transmitted the hidden data to [[Ratchet (Animated)|Ratchet]]. {{storylink|TransWarped|TransWarped}}

==Notes==
* Mainframe was officially revealed in a [http://derrickjwyatt.blogspot.com/2009/03/set-your-alarm-clocks-this-saturday-at.html March 09 blog post] by [[Derrick J. Wyatt]].
* He is an obvious homage to the Generation 1 [[Action Master]] [[Mainframe (G1)|of the same name.]], and like his G1 counterpart, he does not transform. Aww. [http://derrickjwyatt.blogspot.com/2009/03/set-your-alarm-clocks-this-saturday-at.html#c3516302993326345615] If he ''did'', however, he would transform into a Cray supercomputer.
* According to Wyatt's twitter feed, Mainframe ''"is totally in the show because [[Trent Troop]] bought me the toy at last year's [[BotCon 2008|Botcon]]." [http://twitter.com/DerrickJWyatt/status/1303882825]

[[Category:Animated characters]]
[[Category:Autobots]]
[[Category:Cartoon-only characters]]

Alpha Trion (disambiguation)

2009-03-22T03:15:26Z

98.223.230.49:

Distinct versions of the character '''Alpha Trion''' have been used in many [[Continuity family|continuity families]].

*[[Alpha Trion (G1)|Alpha Trion]] the original [[Autobot|Autobot]] sage from various [[Generation 1|Generation 1]] [[Continuity|continuities]]. He is also known as '''A3'''.

*[[Alpha Trion (RID)|Alpha Trion]] the presumably nigh-identical sage mentioned in ''[[Robots in Disguise (franchise)|Robots in Disguise]]''.

*[[Alpha Trion (Energon)|Alpha Trion]] the definitely nigh-identical sage featured in the ''[[Unicron Trilogy|Unicron Trilogy]]''. He is also known as '''Sig-Omega'''.

*[[Alpha Trion (Timelines)|Alpha Trion]] the mentally-disturbed but otherwise nigh-identical sage featured in ''[[Timelines|Timelines]]''.

*[[Alpha Trion (Animated)|Alpha Trion]] the silent but still nigh-identical sage featured in ''[[Animated|Animated]]''.

Alpha Trion should not be confused with:

*[[Alpha Prime|Alpha Prime]]

*[[Ultra Trion|Ultra Trion]]

{{disambig}}

Alpha Trion (disambiguation)

2009-03-22T03:14:25Z

98.223.230.49:

Distinct versions of the character '''Alpha Trion''' have been used in many [[Continuity family|continuity families]].

*[[Alpha Trion (G1)|Alpha Trion]] the original [[Autobot|Autobot]] sage from various [[Generation 1|Generation 1]] [[Continuity|continuities]]. He is also known as '''A3'''.

*[[Alpha Trion (RID)|Alpha Trion]] the presumably nigh-identical sage mentioned in ''[[Robots in Disguise (franchise)|Robots in Disguise]]''.

*[[Alpha Trion (Energon)|Alpha Trion]] the definitely nigh-identical sage featured in the ''[[Unicron Trilogy|Unicron Trilogy]]''. He is also known as '''Sig-Omega'''.

*[[Alpha Trion (Timelines)|Alpha Trion]] the mentally-disturbed but otherwise nigh-identical sage featured in ''[[Timelines|Timelines]]''.

Alpha Trion should not be confused with:

*[[Alpha Prime|Alpha Prime]]

*[[Ultra Trion|Ultra Trion]]

{{disambig}}

Protoform

2009-03-22T03:11:06Z

98.223.230.49: /* Animated */

:''Protoforms are part of a Transformer's [[Life cycle|life cycle]] in many Transformers continuities.''

[[Image:Protoforms2.jpg|right|300px|thumb|TeH Nekkid AiRrazzer!1! L@@K]]
'''Protoforms''' consist of an unspecified, free-flowing, metallic matter layered over basic robotic systems. In many continuities, a protoform is the first stage in a Transformer's [[Life cycle|life cycle]]. These protoforms only await a life-giving [[Spark|spark]] and the alt-form information necessary to transform them into fully functional, living Transformer beings. Often, protoform modes are used to transport Transformers on intergalactic journeys.

Protoforms are transported or stored in [[Stasis lock|stasis lock]], in which state they look like smooth, robotic humanoids (right). When not in stasis lock, protoforms are a roiling mass of liquid metal around their internal frame.<a href="#cite_note-0" title="">[1]</a>

:''Japanese name:'' '''Prototype''' (''Beast Wars''), '''Cyberdrone''' (''Car Robots'')

==Fiction==
===''Beast Wars''===
Protoforms are often contained within [[Stasis pod|stasis pods]] and dropped into unexplored worlds. The ''[[Axalon (BW)|Axalon]]'' carried many such stasis pods for exploration reasons. When a protoform lands, it scans for compatible life-forms. When a suitable lifeform is found, the protoform is reformatted by hitherto unknown means.

===''Beast Wars II''===
[[Image:Protoforms1.jpg|left|180px|thumb|Pretty spry for globs of pudding]]
[[Predacon (BW)|Predacon]] protoforms were shown moving about the Predacon warship using their own power, though they were not shown to speak or have any kind of personality. After the Predacons had gathered enough information about the machines of [[Gaea|Gaea]]'s past, they then fed the information into the protoforms via energy waves. The protoforms were then altered into the [[Autoroller|Autorollers]].

The atmosphere of the Planet Gaea could have caused the protoforms to rust.

<div style="width: 90%; margin: 0 auto .2em auto; background-color:#efefef; border: 2px solid #eeeeee; padding: 2px; text-align: left;">'''Note:''' ''Given that the Autorollers were apparently extant veterans, this would be a case similar to that of [[Airazor (BW)|Airazor]] and [[Tigatron|Tigatron]] in "[[Dawn of Future's Past|Dawn of Future's Past]]", in which an already living Cybertronian had been downloaded into a new protoform body.''</div>
{{-}}

===Dreamwave comics continuity===
Protoforms are the first step in most (if not all) Transformer life. Convicted criminals are sometimes reduced to Protoform state, such as the [[Combaticon|Combaticons]].

===''Robots in Disguise''===
Autobots (and possibly Predacons) can change into a protoform state during long journeys, presumably to conserve energy. Attributes of an Autobot's original form remain in whatever new form the being takes. For instance, [[Scourge (RID)|Scourge]] retained the ability to detect [[O-Parts|O-Parts]].

A downside to the protoform process is that it leaves the Autobots vulnerable to tampering. [[Megatron (RID)|Megatron]] was able to use his [[Spark|Spark]]'s energy to turn Autobot protoforms into [[Decepticon|malevolent entities]]. {{storylink|The Decepticons|The Decepticons}}

===''Cybertron''===
Protoforms are established as the first stage of Transformer life, which is usually followed by [[Primary programming|Primary programming]].

===''Transformers'' (2007)===
[[Image:Movie OptimusPrime protoform.jpg|right|180px|thumb|Optimus Prime's protoform]]
Protoforms in this continuity are more than just the first stage of a Transformer's life, they are the "base" form that exists down inside each robot. Protoforms are made of an ultra-dense, liquid metal material and are extremely hard to damage.

In the rare case they are not actively practicing their natural proclivity for chameleon-like disguise (usually only when engaged in interstellar travel), Transformers shed their exo-structure and return to their protoform state. This protoform is capable of transforming into its [[Transition form|transition form]]: an armored, cometary shape capable of interstellar travel. Upon landing on a new world and transforming back into a protoform, the Transformer immediately begins [[Trans-scan|trans-scanning]] for new alternate forms to adopt. When one is chosen, the protoform draws on its own ultra-dense substance and any extraneous matter nearby to generate a new exostructure disguise.

<div style="width: 90%; margin: 0 auto .2em auto; background-color:#efefef; border: 2px solid #eeeeee; padding: 2px; text-align: left;">'''Note:''' ''"Protoform" is used as a term for the movieverse Transformers' Cybertronian forms, although this is also a chosen appearance for the [[Self-regenerating molecular armor|self-regenerating molecular armor]] formed by the protoform.''</div>
{{-}}

===''Animated''===
[[Image:TransWarpedProtoform.jpg|thumb|right|My Meebas live inside this tube, we grow and change with help from you!]]
According to [[Bumblebee (Animated)|Bumblebee]], [[Megatron (Animated)|Megatron]] eats them for breakfast. {{storylink|Transform and Roll Out!|Transform and Roll Out!}} Also, [[Ratchet (Animated)|Ratchet]] refers to [[Sari|Sari]] as a protoform, suggesting that protoforms are an early stage in a Cybertronian's life cycle that is similar to childhood. {{storylink|Lost and Found (episode)|Lost and Found}} Ironically, this would later turn out to be true, indicating that Transformers can become technorganic in ''Animated'' merely by transcanning an organic form. Apparently, different Transformers could also be created by the same protoform templates, a fact that could explain similarities in body form and transformation schemes (or, in real life terms, retools and redecos.) {{storylink|Autoboot Camp|Autoboot Camp}}

"Protoform" seems to be a derogatory nickname amongst Cybertronians, translating roughly to "baby" or "kid". The word "protoform''ed''" has been used, presumably in reference to a protoform's coming into existence.

==Toys==
Toys representing transitional protoform modes have been made for several characters from the [[Movie (franchise)|live-action Movie]] universe:

[[Image:Movie ProtoformOptimusPrime toy.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Munkytruck feet!]]
*'''Protoform [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]]''' (Deluxe Class, 2007), later [[Redeco|redecorated]] as Protoform Optimus Prime Fusion Cluster Edition.

*'''Protoform [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]''' (Deluxe, 2007), later redecorated as Protoform Starscream Fusion Cluster Edition.

*[[Robot Heroes|Robot Heroes]] [[Jazz (Movie)| Protoform Autobot Jazz]] vs. [[Brawl (Movie)|Decepticon Brawl]]

* '''Trans Scanning [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]]'''

* '''Trans Scanning Optimus Prime'''

==Trivia==
* A traditional Cybertronian song features the lines "Protoform/ Protoform/ What will you be?" <a href="#cite_note-1" title="">[2]</a>

* [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]]'s Cybertronian form depicted in ''Transformers'' comics and toys greatly resembles a protoform, presumably because it was Hasbro's only reference for an alien Autobot appearance.

==Footnotes==
<ol class="references"><li id="cite_note-0"><a href="#cite_ref-0" title="">↑</a> Protoform states seen in "[[The Spark|The Spark]]".
<li id="cite_note-1"><a href="#cite_ref-1" title="">↑</a> "[[Black Horizon, Part 1|Black Horizon, Part 1]]", ''G.I. Joe vs. Transformers'' Volume 4</ol>
<center>
<table cellspacing="0" style="width:90%;">

<tr>
<td style="padding:0 1em 0 1em;text-align:right;"><div class="tti_messageboxdiv" style="width:100%;padding:.5em; background-color:#efefff; border:solid 1px #9f9fff;text-align:center;margin:auto;">[[Image:Kup_piece.gif|left|125px|Kup piece.gif]]
You left a piece out!<hr />
''This article is a [[:Category:Stub|stub]] and is missing information. You can help '''Transformers Wiki''' by [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Protoform&action=edit expanding it].''

</div>
</td></tr></table>
</center>

[[Category:Stub]]
[[Category:Animated]]
[[Category:Beast Wars]]
[[Category:Beast Wars II]]
[[Category:Biology]]
[[Category:Cybertron]]
[[Category:Generation 1]]
[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Robots in Disguise]]

Protoform

2009-03-22T03:08:40Z

98.223.230.49: /* Animated */

:''Protoforms are part of a Transformer's [[Life cycle|life cycle]] in many Transformers continuities.''

[[Image:Protoforms2.jpg|right|300px|thumb|TeH Nekkid AiRrazzer!1! L@@K]]
'''Protoforms''' consist of an unspecified, free-flowing, metallic matter layered over basic robotic systems. In many continuities, a protoform is the first stage in a Transformer's [[Life cycle|life cycle]]. These protoforms only await a life-giving [[Spark|spark]] and the alt-form information necessary to transform them into fully functional, living Transformer beings. Often, protoform modes are used to transport Transformers on intergalactic journeys.

Protoforms are transported or stored in [[Stasis lock|stasis lock]], in which state they look like smooth, robotic humanoids (right). When not in stasis lock, protoforms are a roiling mass of liquid metal around their internal frame.<a href="#cite_note-0" title="">[1]</a>

:''Japanese name:'' '''Prototype''' (''Beast Wars''), '''Cyberdrone''' (''Car Robots'')

==Fiction==
===''Beast Wars''===
Protoforms are often contained within [[Stasis pod|stasis pods]] and dropped into unexplored worlds. The ''[[Axalon (BW)|Axalon]]'' carried many such stasis pods for exploration reasons. When a protoform lands, it scans for compatible life-forms. When a suitable lifeform is found, the protoform is reformatted by hitherto unknown means.

===''Beast Wars II''===
[[Image:Protoforms1.jpg|left|180px|thumb|Pretty spry for globs of pudding]]
[[Predacon (BW)|Predacon]] protoforms were shown moving about the Predacon warship using their own power, though they were not shown to speak or have any kind of personality. After the Predacons had gathered enough information about the machines of [[Gaea|Gaea]]'s past, they then fed the information into the protoforms via energy waves. The protoforms were then altered into the [[Autoroller|Autorollers]].

The atmosphere of the Planet Gaea could have caused the protoforms to rust.

<div style="width: 90%; margin: 0 auto .2em auto; background-color:#efefef; border: 2px solid #eeeeee; padding: 2px; text-align: left;">'''Note:''' ''Given that the Autorollers were apparently extant veterans, this would be a case similar to that of [[Airazor (BW)|Airazor]] and [[Tigatron|Tigatron]] in "[[Dawn of Future's Past|Dawn of Future's Past]]", in which an already living Cybertronian had been downloaded into a new protoform body.''</div>
{{-}}

===Dreamwave comics continuity===
Protoforms are the first step in most (if not all) Transformer life. Convicted criminals are sometimes reduced to Protoform state, such as the [[Combaticon|Combaticons]].

===''Robots in Disguise''===
Autobots (and possibly Predacons) can change into a protoform state during long journeys, presumably to conserve energy. Attributes of an Autobot's original form remain in whatever new form the being takes. For instance, [[Scourge (RID)|Scourge]] retained the ability to detect [[O-Parts|O-Parts]].

A downside to the protoform process is that it leaves the Autobots vulnerable to tampering. [[Megatron (RID)|Megatron]] was able to use his [[Spark|Spark]]'s energy to turn Autobot protoforms into [[Decepticon|malevolent entities]]. {{storylink|The Decepticons|The Decepticons}}

===''Cybertron''===
Protoforms are established as the first stage of Transformer life, which is usually followed by [[Primary programming|Primary programming]].

===''Transformers'' (2007)===
[[Image:Movie OptimusPrime protoform.jpg|right|180px|thumb|Optimus Prime's protoform]]
Protoforms in this continuity are more than just the first stage of a Transformer's life, they are the "base" form that exists down inside each robot. Protoforms are made of an ultra-dense, liquid metal material and are extremely hard to damage.

In the rare case they are not actively practicing their natural proclivity for chameleon-like disguise (usually only when engaged in interstellar travel), Transformers shed their exo-structure and return to their protoform state. This protoform is capable of transforming into its [[Transition form|transition form]]: an armored, cometary shape capable of interstellar travel. Upon landing on a new world and transforming back into a protoform, the Transformer immediately begins [[Trans-scan|trans-scanning]] for new alternate forms to adopt. When one is chosen, the protoform draws on its own ultra-dense substance and any extraneous matter nearby to generate a new exostructure disguise.

<div style="width: 90%; margin: 0 auto .2em auto; background-color:#efefef; border: 2px solid #eeeeee; padding: 2px; text-align: left;">'''Note:''' ''"Protoform" is used as a term for the movieverse Transformers' Cybertronian forms, although this is also a chosen appearance for the [[Self-regenerating molecular armor|self-regenerating molecular armor]] formed by the protoform.''</div>
{{-}}

===''Animated''===
According to [[Bumblebee (Animated)|Bumblebee]], [[Megatron (Animated)|Megatron]] eats them for breakfast. {{storylink|Transform and Roll Out!|Transform and Roll Out!}} Also, [[Ratchet (Animated)|Ratchet]] refers to [[Sari|Sari]] as a protoform, suggesting that protoforms are an early stage in a Cybertronian's life cycle that is similar to childhood. {{storylink|Lost and Found (episode)|Lost and Found}} Ironically, this would later turn out to be true, indicating that Transformers can become technorganic in ''Animated'' merely by transcanning an organic form. Apparently, different Transformers could also be created by the same protoform templates, a fact that could explain similarities in body form and transformation schemes (or, in real life terms, retools and redecos.) {{storylink|Autoboot Camp|Autoboot Camp}}

"Protoform" seems to be a derogatory nickname amongst Cybertronians, translating roughly to "baby" or "kid". The word "protoform''ed''" has been used, presumably in reference to a protoform's coming into existence.

==Toys==
Toys representing transitional protoform modes have been made for several characters from the [[Movie (franchise)|live-action Movie]] universe:

[[Image:Movie ProtoformOptimusPrime toy.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Munkytruck feet!]]
*'''Protoform [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]]''' (Deluxe Class, 2007), later [[Redeco|redecorated]] as Protoform Optimus Prime Fusion Cluster Edition.

*'''Protoform [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]''' (Deluxe, 2007), later redecorated as Protoform Starscream Fusion Cluster Edition.

*[[Robot Heroes|Robot Heroes]] [[Jazz (Movie)| Protoform Autobot Jazz]] vs. [[Brawl (Movie)|Decepticon Brawl]]

* '''Trans Scanning [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]]'''

* '''Trans Scanning Optimus Prime'''

==Trivia==
* A traditional Cybertronian song features the lines "Protoform/ Protoform/ What will you be?" <a href="#cite_note-1" title="">[2]</a>

* [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]]'s Cybertronian form depicted in ''Transformers'' comics and toys greatly resembles a protoform, presumably because it was Hasbro's only reference for an alien Autobot appearance.

==Footnotes==
<ol class="references"><li id="cite_note-0"><a href="#cite_ref-0" title="">↑</a> Protoform states seen in "[[The Spark|The Spark]]".
<li id="cite_note-1"><a href="#cite_ref-1" title="">↑</a> "[[Black Horizon, Part 1|Black Horizon, Part 1]]", ''G.I. Joe vs. Transformers'' Volume 4</ol>
<center>
<table cellspacing="0" style="width:90%;">

<tr>
<td style="padding:0 1em 0 1em;text-align:right;"><div class="tti_messageboxdiv" style="width:100%;padding:.5em; background-color:#efefff; border:solid 1px #9f9fff;text-align:center;margin:auto;">[[Image:Kup_piece.gif|left|125px|Kup piece.gif]]
You left a piece out!<hr />
''This article is a [[:Category:Stub|stub]] and is missing information. You can help '''Transformers Wiki''' by [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Protoform&action=edit expanding it].''

</div>
</td></tr></table>
</center>

[[Category:Stub]]
[[Category:Animated]]
[[Category:Beast Wars]]
[[Category:Beast Wars II]]
[[Category:Biology]]
[[Category:Cybertron]]
[[Category:Generation 1]]
[[Category:Movie]]
[[Category:Robots in Disguise]]

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central

2009-03-19T00:33:41Z

98.223.230.49: /* Admin status */

Additional discussion on this situation can be found on these Allspark.com threads:
* [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=56439 "TFWiki Problems, Any idea what's going on?"]
* [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=51208&st=400&p=1155749&#entry1155749 "Major Wiki Work, A thread for additions to Transformers wikis."]

==Hey hey, what can I do==
I think at this point we must begin formulating plans based on the assumption that the site is a total loss. This means damage control first, then restoration, then prevention.

Assuming no good news comes through, it seems to me we need to take the following steps. Bein' that I'm not a tech guy, there may be more options than what I'm seeing, but here's what I figure we gotta do:

#take down the bulk of the site's pages so Google's cache will not overwrite them
#figure out a system to make Derik and Abates' caches of Google-archived pages accessible to editors as they come in (Derik mentioned it'll take over a week to get a complete set off Google.)
#if possible, automate the stripping of HTML tags and other non-Wiki goop from those pages before anyone tries to edit them, including Wikia links.
#find a way to divvy up a restoration workload among our 50 or so regular editors.
#find a new server. We would be idiots to remain here.

I still hope most of this will be unnecessary, but at this point, I'm losing faith. -- '''repowers''' [[Special:Contributions/99.140.167.2|99.140.167.2]] 12:08, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
: Spoke with Bookworm several times this morning. He still has a few more computers to search for backups, but, well, at this point I'm going to assume the worst. He is going to try to at least get our user database working. He wasn't aware that was a problem until I let him know. I think Scout is trying to get all the pages downloaded from Google Caching. I've grabbed a few of my own, but she's got, like, thousands of pages so far.
: As for getting a new server... anybody got any ideas? Hell if I know. Frankly, don't listen to me anyway on that. --Walky

::Take everything down immediately. The longer the site stays up as-is, the greater the risk of contaminating Google's March 9th cache and the more linkbacks we send to Wikia. Then we either beg Google for a mass infodump, or.... 50 editors grab 160 pages each. EDIT: or Scout gets them! Thanks, Scout; good to see at least the words "silver lining" in print, even if I don't see the actual thing itself yet.... '''Thylacine 2000'''--[[Special:Contributions/74.73.131.210|74.73.131.210]] 12:17, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::If we take everything down, what are we going to edit back together? WHEN are we going to edit everything back together? Taking it down just delays our ability to fix it. --Walky
::::If we've got our copy of the cache, then site shutdown isn't nearly as important. The main concern is that we'd lose the Google cache. Looking like retards... well, we'll just have to take our lumps there. (I guess we could set permissions for content pages to only logged-in users? Dunno.) -- '''repowers''' [[Special:Contributions/99.140.167.2|99.140.167.2]] 12:30, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::Even if it doesn't overwrite the cache, I see no reason to have the site up given the state that it's in. I say take it down until the head-honchos figure out how to clean up this mess. '''(Undecided)''' [[Special:Contributions/67.185.148.107|67.185.148.107]] 16:13, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::'''Dudes'''. I noticed our front page's google cache has been updated to our current broken wiki page. So it's already begun. That's just great. --'''FFN'''
:::::At the least people shouldn't be editing any single pages right now (aside from very recently created articles, user pages and stuff like that which our cache-trawl won't cover). Once we've got the complete site cache (and converted it to wiki mark up), either the whole thing will be uploaded, which will overwrite their changes anyway, or whoever does upload them will have to go through them all picking out which ones need doing and which need updating, etc., which will only create a shit-ton more work for them. Also, I'm not certain exactly how Google cache works, but I'm pretty sure that keeping the broken pages active isn't doing us any favours. - Magnus Maximus 14:57, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
Well, this is some solid proof that Wikia sucks pretty bad. Look how often this happens over there... ''oh.'' {{unsigned|98.114.160.90}}
:What the fuck are you gibbering about? --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 18:10, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::Odds are, it's [http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-general-discussion/223458-tfwiki-post3408570.html#post3408570 this guy] trying to troll. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 18:13, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::either way, it's a good point - Wikia might still let the community come back. {{unsigned|98.114.160.90}}
::::But we don't ''want to''. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 20:25, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::::No it isn't. Fuck Wikia. We left them for a lot of reasons, and there is ''zero'' reason to crawl back to them. And even if we ''did'' go back we'd have the '''''exact same amount of work to do there as we do now'''''. It's infinitely better to ride this entirely surmountable problem out and stick with our principles and dignity intact. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:29, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::Amen. We had solid reasons for leaving Wikia. They lied to us perpetually. They stuck huge ridiculous ads in the middle of our content which we had to retool our pages around. Those ads TALKED. And as Siph said, we'd have every bit as much work to do there as we do here. We've learned a hard lesson with this weekend's stupidity, but the lesson's been learned and we can move on. This particular mistake won't happen again.
:::::But there's more to it than that. Right when we were quite openly making our plans to leave Wikia, their boss Jimmy Wales was tone-deaf or ignorant or arrogant enough to cite us as an example of how well his vision of the modern internet was working. Give the users a little space and they'll hand you all the free content you need, no matter how badly you treat them. Our leaving was subsequently covered -- not widely of course, but covered -- in real media. As ridiculous as it sounds, we're one of many test cases for how content creators on the web are going to be handled. If we stop now, we're declaring that Wales was right and digital sharecropping is the most anyone can hope for. If we learn from our mistakes and soldier on, we demonstrate that nobody needs these cretins who can't even show proper respect for the people they're profiting from. We do not need Wikia. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 20:50, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::Yeah but then you'd have a wiki that works again. {{unsigned|32.165.174.59}}
:::::::No, we'd have a wiki broken apart by ads everywhere, talking ads, more ads, ads pushing images down, ads pushing images up, ads here ads there ads everywhere. I'd rather we stick this one out and fix the problem within a few days than crawl back to people that lied to us repeatedly and stuck hidden links back to Wikia in the code prior to the move. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:40, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::::We could have a wiki that works now if we were willing to give up on all our work for the last several months and use Bookworm's backup... which is what we'd also have to accept if we went back to Wikia. Except that then we'd have big talking ads and lying liars to contend with. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 21:42, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::::Wikia would ''routinely'' break our pages with thoughtless coding-boner moves that were, really, just as stupid as what Bookworm did. The difference was that Wikia would eventually fix it, albeit after lying about the existence of the problem, then its origin, then their responsibility for it, then the guarantee that of course it would never happen again. The lesson here is not that Wikia is any less dumb and inhospitable than we already knew they were; the lesson is that we've uncovered other dumb and inhospitable hosting methods elsewhere. You don't pick one breakocracy over another--you pick a place that WORKS. '''Thylacine 2000'''--[[Special:Contributions/74.73.131.210|74.73.131.210]] 21:44, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
but... THIS wiki doesn't work. At least on wikia you have something that can stay online and not blow up. I saw what happened back during the change and it sounds like you guys were being cry babies. improving the UI and getting better ad support site wide doesn't seem like they were breaking your wiki. plus you're talking like they were singling you guys out among all the other wikis they host. Either way. I thought you guys might have actually been able to pull off something good here, but nobody has even stepped up to offer to back the wiki up properly so it doesn't happen again. great "community". well there will be a waaah-mbulance waiting the next time this happens : ) {{unsigned|98.114.165.115}}

:In light of how many people are stepping up to help out with our recovery efforts, your barbs against the sense of community here are really kind of... how do I put this... pathetic? Yeah, "pathetic", that's the word I want!
:I'm not sure where you get this claim that "this wiki doesn't work" -- it pretty clearly does. Aren't we here, now, talking? Sure, most of our content is 9 months backdated right now, but at the rate we're going we will have just about everything back the way it was or better in a few weeks or even days. At the rate this site adds new content, the small amount of data we can't recover is barely going to be a blip on the radar a few months down the road. And even 9 months backdated, TFWiki is practically the same level as the old Wikia site, which has for all practical purposes been stagnant since we moved out.
:As for the rest of your tirade... your spewing of random Internet buzzwords is vaguely amusing, but please, if you have nothing to say, say nothing. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 15:44, 18 March 2009 (EDT)

:Lazy, talentless, non-contributing followers always love it when those with creativity and energy run into problems. So if our own brief and fixable setbacks have made your lifelong inaction and forgettability seem briefly more bearable, you're welcome. Even when we stumble, we still do some good. '''Thylacine 2000'''--[[Special:Contributions/74.73.131.210|74.73.131.210]] 15:48, 18 March 2009 (EDT)

==I am a dumb, stupid man==
Just to get that out of the way. Should have told BK to back off on the database upgrade as soon as I saw his original email, and maybe we shouldn't have been here on this server to begin with. It was my call, after all. I'll do my best to make it up to you. Especially TOOG and McFeely, who did so many pages. When I remembered Google caches stuff at like 7 in the morning and started downloading pages whole-hog, theirs was the work I went after first. BEFORE HOT SHOT. That is how bad I feel. Nobody should have to watch through Energon twice. Or, uh, once. This is a terrible, horrible thing, brought on partially by my own incompetence and unassertiveness. Other people shouldn't have to learn my needed life lessons with me. --Walky
:Has Bookworm given any updates yet? Is he even still working on it?--KrytenKoro[[Special:Contributions/98.223.230.49|98.223.230.49]] 23:01, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

==What we've actually lost==
Okay, I've been trying to assess and give a realistic account of the information we appear to be missing. It's hampered by the lack of a search option, meaing I've been having to hit the random button until I've gotten to a page I can link to, and I may be missing something things, but I believe that we have lost the following sections:
*The work McFeely did on [[Energon (cartoon)|Energon]].
*[[Revelation]]
*[[All Hail Megatron]]
*[[The Reign of Starscream]]
*[[Maximum Dinobots]]
*[[Alliance]]
*[[Defiance]]
*[[Universe (2008)]]
*[[Revenge of the Fallen]] updates.
*Abates screen captures on [[Beast Wars]], [[Beast Machines]], and [[Generation 1]].
*Updated screen captures for [[Transformers Animated]] season 1 and 2.
*Last but not least, all we know of [[Transformers Animated]] season 3.

If I missed anything that stands out, please let me know. If all I've done is seriously depress you, then...I don't really know how to respond to that. -- SFH 13:49, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

:I'm not sure how worthwhile this is. I could add that we've lost almost everything related to the S.T.A.R.S. continuity (including the meta-page with that name), but seriously, we could keep listing pages forever. Not to mention that probably a huge majority of the existing pages have lost a lot of updates. I don't think there's anything we rank-and-file editors can do until either Walky appears brandishing a "routine backup" or Scout et al. get the Google cache sorted out and implemented. At THAT point, maybe taking stock would be a good idea, but until then, let's just go outside and get some fresh air. Toss a Frisbee around. Call up an old friend. - '''Jackpot''' [[Special:Contributions/216.231.37.133|216.231.37.133]] 14:01, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

::Yeah, we need a systemic, all-encompassing, computer-generated list of every page, since pretty much every page has probably been edited since the split. (though for the record, my list includes 15-20 Energon eps and 20-30 rewritten subgroup pages.) Said list needs a checklist option or something. I dunno. I had this written more coherently before the save page thing crashed. Whee, are we having fun yet? -- '''repowers''' [[Special:Contributions/99.140.167.2|99.140.167.2]] 14:28, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:I still have all those screen captures, so I can reupload them if necessary. Of course, the images are actually still on the server, but the out-of-date database doesn't know they're there. I grabbed a complete set of Beast Machines episode articles and a near-complete set of RID episode articles from various caches last night. Unfortunately the software I wrote for doing the same only grabbed 53 articles before it was throttled. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 14:47, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::We lost all the Titan collections that Emvee and I did. They weren't cached yet, but oddly the main Titan page had a cached version with the links I made to the individual pages. Wierd. This loss hits me really hard since I didn't start editing until this winter and '''everything''' I've contributed is now potentially gone. Since the tfwiki is one of the few joys I've had lately, it makes me feel a bit useless now. --Bluestreak7 [[Special:Contributions/98.213.132.186|98.213.132.186]] 15:03, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::''Of course, the images are actually still on the server, but the out-of-date database doesn't know they're there.''
::If that's the case, then perhaps they can be reinstated when/if Bookworm compiles a list of files on the server that are newer than a given date.--Apcog [[Special:Contributions/99.158.0.251|99.158.0.251]] 15:38, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
That'd be Rob's work on Energon, not mine. I've lost around half the Victory cartoon, and ''every single fucking Japanese character article I ever did that's not Shuta.'' I thought we were only back to post-move September status, but we've actually regressed to June. - '''McFeely''' [[Special:Contributions/81.158.171.149|81.158.171.149]] 15:17, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:I just saved as many of the Masterforce character articles as I could from Yahoo and MSN's cache (Google throttled me again) --[[Special:Contributions/203.97.2.142|203.97.2.142]] 16:15, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:Can't you grab anything between June and the move from Wikia? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 09:18, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::Well, I... oh! OH! All of that stuff is still ON Wikia! Oh-ho-ho-HO! *scampers off* - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 09:20, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
In the event that we can't find a more recent backup (and at this point, if server dude can find one from even as recently as January, I'd be overjoyed), do we at least still have the original dump we exported in September which doesn't have all the wikia links at the bottom? --[[Special:Contributions/203.97.2.142|203.97.2.142]] 16:11, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

Henkei's articles - toys, pack-in manga, and Comic Bun Bun are lost as well. Typing "henkei" in the search redirects back to the old Classics (2006) with it's last mod date May 2008. Cache helps a bit though. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 00:26, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

I'm going to see if I can salvage as much of the coloring book stuff as I can - between Powers and I, we put a fair bit of effort into it. -hx [[Special:Contributions/24.30.97.198|24.30.97.198]] 08:50, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

I am a broken man. I can muster the strength of will to do little more than sign back up. I have recovered my missing Victory episode articles... I would be uploading the Masterforce and Victory character articles now, since I have backups, but they are on another computer that has died recently. I am seriously getting bombarding with shit the last few days. Computer dies, business is turning sour thanks to the economy, and I say to myself, "Buck up, fellow, you've still got new Animated at the weekend to look forward to, and you can write it up for the wiki!" Fuck ''you'', universe. Just... fuck ''you''. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 08:54, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

:Man, I hear ya. This comes at a time when I really can't spare much time or effort to help out with the recovery. Plus seeing that much of my work wiped out... oy. I just can't muster the will (or time) to do much beyond try and help marshal the recovery efforts. Might be best to just step away for a few days. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 09:32, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

== Anything the rank and file could do? ==

OK, so there's obviously alot of scrambling going on from all who can to recover all the massive chunks of what's been lost, my question: is it at all helpful for the rank and file occasional contributor to be doing any editting at this point? I mean, I'm sure there are a bunch of us who would be willing to edit and add here and there to fix up what small bits and pages we can. Or would such small additions and peicemeal fixes just get in the way of the eventual large scale repairs? --[[Special:Contributions/71.235.138.121|71.235.138.121]] 14:59, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

:We really don't know yet. It depends on what Derik and Scout come back with. I can't imagine there's any harm in restoring pages by hand (it could presumably get lost in whatever mass upgrades we end up doing... or not. I have no idea.) Mostly, just sit tight for the moment. When we get a system figured out, we'll ring the bells to summon the fire brigade. -- '''repowers''' [[Special:Contributions/99.140.167.2|99.140.167.2]] 15:25, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

Pick a page. Stick <nowiki>{{bookworm}}</nowiki> at the top, it'll give you a link to that page's google cache. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:33, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

I've been wiping out those Wikia credits at the bottom of each page. Is this helpful, or should I stop? -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 06:04, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:Work on saving at least one 100-page set of Google cache pages first... every set we get is that many less we won't lose completely. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 06:43, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::I would if I had any idea what that meant. I'd never even heard of a Google cache before yesterday. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 06:55, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::Just check out [[#Pages .22recovered.22 list|this section]]. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 06:59, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

== How do I properly add info to an article's "recover" page? ==

I've done the bookworm tag on some articles and saved the google cache to my harddrive... question is, how do I post this data to the articles' /recover sections? Just copy'n'paste the text, or go nab the source code? Detour --[[Special:Contributions/70.26.248.28|70.26.248.28]] 18:22, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:I expect source code would be more useful. It will preserve the formatting, and someone can probably write a script to convert it back to wiki code. Plus, if I'm wrong, it's trivial to convert the source code to text, whereas you can't really go the other way. '''Chip''' [[Special:Contributions/69.139.147.179|69.139.147.179]] 19:01, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

:I do both, one after the other.
:The first is easier to re-format, but you'll often need to be able tog et the links out of the source code. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:01, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

== Automated Cache Recovery ==
Will this program I happened upon help any? [http://warrick.cs.odu.edu/warrick.html Warrick]. It's supposed to be something that can automate getting websites from various web caches. I put a job in their queue, but if someone who has web stuff (it needs Perl 5 installed) set up on their comp can run the program themselves right now, that would help. Or is that the sort of thing Derik and Suki are already doing? (Basically, I'd like to help, but I don't even know what "phase" we're on...) --[[Special:Contributions/96.240.212.69|96.240.212.69]] 18:59, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:It's being run. It'll take some time, and e3ven then... that's just grabbing a copy of the google cache before it vanishes.
:(Personally I'm banking on a localized reversal of [[The Fallen|the second law of thermodynamics]].) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:01, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::Well, if we're in the midst of saving the Google cache, than what we should do is... 1. Get a copy of as many cached pages as we can. 2. run them all through some sort of preprocessor 3. get a list of editors willing to help, give them each a chunk of the processed pages, and tell them to go to town reposting them. There's no sense in having people running around doing things piecemeal instead of being systematic about it.
::Which is why I was wondering if there was some sort of system already for having people grab cache pages, rather than just doing it randomly. I've been using [http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/allpages.htm this page] based on Abates' list to grab cache links for the Main namespace, and I have the first 400 links opened so far. Maybe if everyone took so many pages? (Although I have the advantage that I can force change my IP every time I run into Google's annoying throttle wall.)
::Also, I was thinking that we might consider just simply making a fresh install of the wiki software with an empty database, then simply recreating everything, if we're going to have to repost everything by hand anyway... --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/96.233.179.58|96.233.179.58]] 20:48, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::Make that the first 500, which I'm going to work on saving now. Do our various editors want to post here and lay a claim on a set of numbers on the list and work on opening and saving them? (They link straight to the cache page.) Not all of the links converted cleanly, but it's probably easier to just manually fix them as you go instead of me trying to spend time manually cleaning and reposting the list. I figure, once we know we've got the Main namespace pages saved, we can then work on trying to figure out the other namespaces. (Template and Help at the very least.) --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.218.239|72.79.218.239]] 21:06, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

== Restoring account status ==

Is it better to recreate an account, possibly messing up the caches for one's User Contributions, Talk Page, etc., so uploading images and such is possible? Or should we just sit tight a bit longer on that aspect until more restoration is done?--Apcog [[Special:Contributions/99.158.0.251|99.158.0.251]] 19:24, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:Re-create. -[[Special:Contributions/207.224.69.82|207.224.69.82]] 20:02, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::Feh. Okay, done.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 20:13, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

== Pages "recovered" list ==

In the however likely case we are not able to get a full set of backups from Bookworm, we should probably keep a list of pages somewhere that have been at least partially recovered via Derik's bookworm template and google's cache or other caches. This way any rank-n-file editor who wants to help out can just look at the list to see what's been done so they can go save other pages. Another way is to get that listing of all the pages and have users check them off when they've been partially recovered. Thoughts? --Bluestreak7 [[Special:Contributions/98.213.132.186|98.213.132.186]] 19:53, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:Well, here's a list of all pages that need to be ''recovered'' from the Main namespace: http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/allpages.htm with links straight to the cache pages. I've opened the first 500 links so far, and am half done with saving them, then I'll work on the next 500. Anyone else want to pitch in, lay claim to a range of numbers to save, and get on it? (Note: Not all of the links coverted over right, though most of them did. If you get an error, just fix any goofs in the link and try again. And keep a list of any pages where, even after checking the link was correct, it just didn't have a cache to save.) --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/96.240.208.203|96.240.208.203]] 21:48, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:I've written a Perl script to convert the HTML back to Wiki markup. It's not perfect, and I need to test it on more cache files, but it's faster than reformatting by hand. It could be provided as an online tool, maybe. --abates not signed in [[Special:Contributions/203.97.2.142|203.97.2.142]] 22:00, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::Okay, I'm starting on the 7000s. I'll see how far I can get before I need to get to bed. I'm still holding on to hope that all this cache work is for nothing, but not expecting it. [[User:Bluestreak7|Bluestreak7]] 22:28, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::I'll start the 6500s. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:30, 16 March 2009 (EDT) I got up to 6600 before it stopped me. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:47, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::::I'll at least be doing up to the first 1000 myself. And, I've found that if you have any way to change your IP, that will reset Google's throttle stop. (People who have rotating IPs can likely do this simply by disconnecting/reconnecting.) I also went and fixed all the broken links that didn't convert right, so feel free to refresh my list for the latest version. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:50, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::I have a feeling we shouldn't worry about the early ones. Both Derik and Scout have automated scripts for this, and I'm sure that's where they started. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:54, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::I'll try and do from 6000 to 6499, then. I've also got a bunch of other pages saved already, mostly G1 character pages. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 22:56, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::::Well, in my epic suckitude coupled with having other engagements I need to get finished... I've only made it to 6050... maybe someone can pick up my slack? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:54, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::::Starting with 6601. '''Chip''' [[Special:Contributions/69.139.147.179|69.139.147.179]] 23:06, 16 March 2009 (EDT) Ended at 6710. '''Chip'''
:::::I'll start with 5000-5100. Hope I can help. --[[User:G1MarvelBlaster|G1MarvelBlaster]] 08:51, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
[[Special:Contributions/69.139.147.179|69.139.147.179]] 23:55, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
Do we have a simple, automated way to grab this stuff? '''Chip'''
:Not automated, but, efficiencied:
#Open list in a new Opera window.
#Open up the "Links" panel.
#Select 50 links and "Open in Background tab"
#Select another 50 links after those load, and again "Open in Background tab"
#Drag the list tab to the taskbar to create a new window
#Reset my modem (to get a new IP)
#Repeat these steps until I have 5 windows (100 pages each) open, then go through each window saving everything as HTML.
--[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 01:06, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::If you're using Firefox, you can also use an add-on called "Snap Links" to open multiple links at a time. With it installed you just hold down your right mouse button to drag a selection box over all the links you want to open. - Magnus Maximus 03:24, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

===Status Report===
====Main Article Namespace====
Andrusi: 
Working on: 
Completed: 5801-5900 
Unrecoverable: <s>Rihoko_Yoshida</s>, <s>Rio_Gr fica_Editora</s> 

Tigerpaw28: 
Working on: 
Completed:1839-2839, 3601-3800, 4001-4200 
Unrecoverable:Dirt_Boss_(disambiguation), <s>Dirk_Manus</s>, Do_Over, <s>Doryu-</s>, Dungeons_&_Dinobots,
El_Greco, Empire7, End_of_the_Road_(Titan), Enter,_Lio_Convoy_Typhoon, Esther_Scott, February_19, Fire_&_Ice, Frederic_Doss, Friend_or_Foe!?_The_True_Form_of_the_Monster!!, Fushigi_Yamada, <s>Gairyu</s>, Generation_1_cartoon_timeline_(Japan)/src, Geonosis 
Josh_Nizzi, <s>Jose_Delbo</s>, <S>Jose_Sant'anna</s>, <s>Jose_Santacruz</s>, <s>J rmungandr</s>, <s>Kakuryu</s>, Kazuhiko_Go-do, <S>Kenichiro-_Tanabe</s>, <s>Kenso-_Kato-</s>, <s>Kenyu-_Horiuchi</s> 
Linkage_Part_13, List_of_computers, Live?_Die?!_The_Desperate_Super-God_Combination, Lloyd_Goldfine, Longview, M&M's, Mach_Kick_Voluntarily_Enlists!?, Magna-mike Magno_Sound_&_Video 
*3000 pages is a hell of a lot to do on your own. Why don't you just take one chunk at a time and let someone else help with the rest? - Magnus Maximus 19:53, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::If you can do a chunk someone else has claimed as "working on", then go ahead. Redundancy is better than not having the pages. --abates 20:44, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::I'll go ahead and take 2840-4999 off my list for now. If I get to that point tonight (I plan on working on it until at least 3am EST), I'll pick back up, but for now I'll drop it. Didn't realize how much of a task it was.--[[User:Tigerpaw28|Tigerpaw28]] 21:51, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

Jeysie: 
Working on: 
Completed: 1-1000, 3101-3300, 3401-3600, 3801-3900, 4700-4800, 6400-6499, 6900-7000, 7140-8292 
Unrecoverable: <s>1984 media</s>, <s>2008 media</s>, Akari Hibino, All Fall Down (disambiguation), <s>Alpha Trion (disambiguation)</s>, April 6, <s>April 16</s>, April 19, <s>Autofire</s>, <s>Automatic timer</s>, <s>Banjo-Ginga</s>, <s>Bat-Rob</s>, <s>Binbo-gami</s>, <s>Break Is a Predacon?</s>, <s>The Autobot Warrior, Sixknight?!</s>, The Big Book of Coloring Fun, <s>The Final Battle (RID)</s>, The New Battle Begins!, The Smashing Pumpkins, <s>The Strongest Tag Team?</s>, The Treacherous Attack of the Decepticons, The Victory Warriors Enter!!, Thundercracker (Shattered Glass), Tight Shot

<s>Super Ginrai Gets Blown Away in the Desert!</s>, <s>Susan K. Williams</s>, <s>Swarm (G2)</s>, Tlaloc, <s>Toaster bot</s>, <s>Tow-Line (Energon)</s>, <s>Transcendent: Part 4</s>, <s>Transformers Comic issue 19</s>, TransWarped (Part Two), TransWarped (Part Three), <s>Trevor Hutchison</s>, <s>Trust (Cybertron)</s>, Tsutomu Kashiwakura, <s>Ultra Magnus (Universe Spy Changer)</s>, Vector, Where Is Thy Sting?, <s>Wyatt's Roadsideaganza</s>

Slaves of the Insecticons

High Beam

January 8

Detour 
Working on: 
Completed: 1801-1837, 6000-6050 
Unrecoverable: <s>Ryo- Naito-</s>, <s>Ryo-ichi Tanaka</s>, <s>Ryo-ka Yuzuki</s>, Deep Sea Discovery! Vector Prime

ItsWalky 
Working on: 
Completed: 6500-6600 
Unrecoverable: <s>Small Foot</s>, <s>Sojourner's Passage</s>

Chip 
Working on: 
Completed: 6601-6710 
Unrecoverable: <s>Spark (episode)</s>

Bluestreak7 
Working on: 
Completed: 6051-6151, 6152-6256, 6711-6791, 7000-7140 
Unrecoverable: Staff Sergeant Tracy, <s>Takuro- Kitagawa</s>, <s>Teiyu- Ichiryu-sai</s>, <s>Tessho-Genda</s>, <s>Team Ironhide</s>, Tech-Spec Manual, Tentakil (disambiguation), Terrorcon (disambiguation), <s>Sanryo- Odaka</s>, <s>Seizo- Kato-</s>

abates 
Working on: 
Completed: 1001-1300, 1500-1800, 3301-3400, 3901-4000, 4201-4400, 4501-4550 
Unrecoverable: Crown, Cybertron Redux, Charlie Bodin, Cheyne, Hochu Otsuka, Insecticon Attack!, Matrix Quest (Titan), Matrix_Quest_(disambiguation)

Magnus Maximus 
Working on: 
Completed: 2840-2959, 6257-6399, 6792-6899 
Unrecoverable: Studio 4˚C, Seven, <s>Shinichiro- Miki</s>, <s>Shizuku Amao-</s>, Showdown (disambiguation), <s>Sho-hei Kohara</s>, <s>Sho-ji Kawamori</s>, <s>Sho-ki</s>, <s>Shu-ta Go-</s>, Gods? Devils? The Pretenders

G1MarvelBlaster 
Working on: 5102-5200 
Completed: 5000-5101 
Unrecoverable: Odette Yustman

Tribimat 
Working on: 
Completed: 1301-1499 Classics (disambiguation) to Crossblades (G1) 
Unrecoverable: Command Center

FortMax 
Completed 5201-1400 
Unrecoverable: Gutcruncher_(G1), Hasbro Q&A March 2009 question submissions

====="Unrecoverable" pages=====
Those are actually recoverable. They're just searched for with the wrong characters, since whatever program we're using isn't equipped to handle odd characters like macrons. I'll be working on them. (Interrobang) [[Special:Contributions/69.23.135.79|69.23.135.79]] 00:53, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:Also, if pages are absent from the Google cache, try Yahoo or MSN. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 01:31, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

::I think I've gotten all of the macrons, circumflexes, accents, et al. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 01:58, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::Unrecoverable: Kazuhiko Gōdo, Yukiyoshi Ōhashi?

=====Finish Summary=====
0001-1000 Jeysie <nowiki>[</nowiki>[http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/tfwiki.zip Uploaded to my webspace]<nowiki>]</nowiki> 
1001-1300 abates [uploaded] 
1301-1499 Tribimat [uploaded] 
1500-1800 abates [uploaded] 
1801-1837 Detour [uploaded] 
1838-2839 Tigerpaw [uploaded] 
2840-2959 Magnus Maximus [uploaded] 
2960-2999 FortMax [uploaded] 
3000-3100 FortMax [uploaded] 
3101-3300 Jeysie [uploaded] 
3301-3400 abates [uploaded] 
3401-3600 Jeysie [uploaded] 
3601-3800 Tigerpaw [uploaded] 
3801-3900 Jeysie [uploaded] 
3901-4000 abates [uploaded] 
4001-4200 Tigerpaw [uploaded] 
4201-4300 abates [uploaded] 
4301-4400 abates [uploaded] 
4401-4500 Interrobang [uploaded] 
4501-4550 abates [uploaded] 
4551-4669 <nowiki>[</nowiki>[http://www.yousendit.com/download/UmNLL0dLUEMwZ2xFQlE9PQ Uploaded to my yousendit]<nowiki>]</nowiki> 
4670-4699 Anon 
4700-4800 Jeysie [uploaded] 
4800-4804 Anon 
4805-4999 Bluestreak7 [uploaded] 
5000-5200 G1MarvelBlaster 
5201-5400 FortMax [uploaded] 
5401-5600 Phil [uploaded] 
5601-5700 Interrobang [uploaded] 
5701-5800 Phil [uploaded] 
5801-5900 Andrusi [uploaded] 
5901-5999 Interrobang [uploaded] 
6000-6050 Detour [uploaded] 
6051-6151 Bluestreak7 [uploaded] 
6152-6256 Bluestreak7 [uploaded] 
6257-6399 Magnus Maximus [uploaded] 
6400-6499 Jeysie [uploaded] 
6500-6600 ItsWalky [uploaded] 
6601-6710 Chip [uploaded] 
6711-6791 Bluestreak7 [uploaded] 
6792-6899 Magnus Maximus [uploaded] 
6900-7000 Jeysie <nowiki>[</nowiki>[http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/tfwiki.zip Uploaded to my webspace]<nowiki>]</nowiki> 
7000-7140 Bluestreak7 [uploaded] 
7140-8292 Jeysie <nowiki>[</nowiki>[http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/tfwiki.zip Uploaded to my webspace]<nowiki>]</nowiki>

=====Unrecovered pages=====
{{collist|3|
*Akari Hibino
*All Fall Down (disambiguation)
*April 6
*April 19
*Command Center
*Crown
*Cybertron Redux
*Charlie Bodin
*Cheyne
*Deep Sea Discovery! Vector Prime
*Dirt Boss (disambiguation)
*Do Over
*Dungeons & Dinobots
*El Greco
*Empire7
*End of the Road (Titan)
*Enter, Lio Convoy Typhoon
*Esther Scott
*February 19
*Fire & Ice
*Frederic Doss
*Friend or Foe!? The True Form of the Monster!!
*Fushigi Yamada
*Generation 1 cartoon timeline (Japan)/src
*Geonosis
*Gods? Devils? The Pretenders
*Gutcruncher (G1)
*Hasbro Q&A March 2009 question submissions
*High Beam
*Insecticon Attack!
*January 8
*Josh Nizzi
*Kazuhiko Gōdo
*Kingbolt
*Linkage Part 13
*List of computers
*Live? Die?! The Desperate Super-God Combination
*Lloyd Goldfine
*Longview
*M&M's
*Mach Kick Voluntarily Enlists!?
*Magna-mike
*Magno Sound & Video
*Matrix Quest (Titan)
*Matrix_Quest_(disambiguation)
*May 26
*Maya Klayn
*Mini-Vehicle
*Mirage_(disambiguation)
*Miroslaw_Neinert
*Nightscream (Energon)
*Nokia-bot
*Null ray
*Odette Yustman
*Quick Bow
*Robot Masters (cartoon)
*Robot Masters (pack-in comic)
*Scoop (G1)
*Scoop (Shattered Glass)
*Seven
*Showdown (disambiguation)
*Slaves of the Insecticons
*Staff Sergeant Tracy
*Studio 4˚C
*Tech-Spec Manual
*Tentakil (disambiguation)
*Terrorcon (disambiguation)
*The Big Book of Coloring Fun
*The New Battle Begins!
*The Smashing Pumpkins
*The Treacherous Attack of the Decepticons
*The Victory Warriors Enter!!
*Thundercracker (Shattered Glass)
*Tight Shot
*Tlaloc
*Tsutomu Kashiwakura
*Vector}}

====Template Namespace====

Jeysie - Saved: Everything on [http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/templates.htm this list] formed by doing a search for "<nowiki>site:http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Template:</nowiki>" on Google. (Dunno how much good it'll do, considering, but I wager it's better than nothing.)

====Help Namespace====

Jeysie - Saved: Everything on [http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/help.htm this list] formed by doing a search for "<nowiki>site:http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Help:</nowiki>" on Google.

====Transformers Wiki Namespace====

Jeysie - Saved: Everything on [http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/transformerswiki.htm this list] formed by doing a search for "<nowiki>site:http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Transformers Wiki:</nowiki>" on Google.

====Talk Namespace====

Could we get a list of links in the talk namespace to download, too? That's the other important one-- if you can provide it in the form of just one plain URL per line, you can use my script to go through them. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 14:39, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:Sure! I was going to after we finished the main space, and seeing as how I wake up to find that almost done...
:I wasn't sure precisely what you needed from your comment, so, here's an [http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/alltalkpages.htm HTML file] that's basically like my article list except with "Talk:" stuck in front of everything, and here's a [http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/alltalkpages.txt TXT file] with just the number and URL written out.
:I should note it's going to have the same problem with the special characters, though, so it might be hard to tell what doesn't have a talk page due to being screwy, and what really doesn't have a talk page. :>
:Edit: In fact, we're going to likely run into a lot of "unrecoverable" pages (since not every article had a talk page to begin with), where it's going to be hard to tell whether they really don't exist, or if we should hunt for them in other caches. How should we handle this? --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:40, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::I think we should just resign ourselves to the fact that we may end up missing some talk pages. At the end of the day, they're not a huge deal.
::(As a side note, it won't work with the numbers in front of each URL.) --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 18:01, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::OK, I stripped the numbers and reuploaded. (I wasn't sure if it would work with the numbers after the URL, and I'm not sure of a good automatic way to do that anyway, so I guess we'll have to do ranges by title.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:34, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

<s>Okay, folks, can we start trying to download talk pages? Just delete "pageslist" from the cachecatcher directory, download Jeysie's TXT file, and rename it to pageslist. It's the same process from there; although don't worry about documenting which talk pages don't download, because let's face it... a LOT aren't going to.</s> --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 21:35, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::I'm trying to work on downloading Talk pages but the script isn't quite working. I swapped the Talk page list in and everything looks like it's working. Except that the pages it says it has downloaded are not showing up in the pages directory. Nor can I find them anywhere else. Ideas? --[[User:Tigerpaw28|Tigerpaw28]] 12:52, 18 March 2009 (EDT)
::I'm having the same problem - I followed the same steps, and everything seems to be working, but nothing seems to have downloaded anywhere. - [[User:Tribimat|Tribimat]] 14:07, 18 March 2009 (EDT)
:::Oh, god dammit, I know what the problem is; it's a Windows thing, it's probably choking on the :s in the names. I'll upload a version of the script that works around that later. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 15:10, 18 March 2009 (EDT)
::::Of course! That makes perfect sense. But I wonder why it isn't crashing like it was with the articles that had ?s in their names?--[[User:Tigerpaw28|Tigerpaw28]] 15:34, 18 March 2009 (EDT)

0000-0200 Tigerpaw28 (in progress) 
0200-8921 '''Needed'''

== Synchronize watches! ==

Hey techy type folks, I know y'all are busy right now, but there's a few things that need to happen so we aren't wasting people's effort and good will:

* We need a site-wide page-top banner with a short note on what's happened and quick links to the relevant threads, pages, instructions on restoring pages, etc. Also maybe an update on things as required.
* We need to coordinate Google cache pulling, if it isn't happening already behind the scenes. So far it sounds like Scout, Jeysie, Derik, Abates, and maybe some others have been pulling stuff en masse. It suck if like, everyone was pulling the same stuff and missing the same other stuff.
* The cache pull results need to be pooled into one big conglomerated mess somewhere. And auto-stripping/formatting, but y'all already know that.
* We need a temporary tag/template that can be slapped on top of a page when it's restored. Just a small text note would be adequate.

Sorry if I'm nagging and/or telling you stuff you already know, but everyone's efforts seem kind of random at the moment. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 21:49, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:Yeah, agreed. Like I said above, I'd prefer to:
#Have everyone right now just work on saving the Google cache before it changes. This is really the important thing right now, IMHO... we can't recover pages unless we have something to recover ''from''.
#''Then'' we can work on divving up the cached pages, sending them through a processor, and having people repost their batch of page code on the pages themselves (or on a clean install, would be my preference), doing any necessary manual cleanup as they go along.
:The current state of people sort of saving and restoring random individual pages on "recover" subpages isn't really all that helpful, IMHO. The wiki's going to look ugly for a while regardless; better to just be patient on making stuff look good and just tackle this in a somewhat organized fashion instead. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:10, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::This lack of coordination and general secrecy is hurting efforts. Since I requested help, people on TFW2005 have offered to help out, including people from beyond the board, but they're all asking me what they are supposed to do with their saved browser cache pages/google cache pages. I've been telling them to sit tight until *somebody* tells the people on the wiki what to do. Hopefully, something will be salvaged and this effort won't be needed... but what do I know? I have no idea what the status of things are beyond this page. I do have one suggestion - if and when we get things back to some form of normalcy, we better post a thank you message on the front page for all of those people who offered us help and/or best wishes. --FFN
:::Ask Scout. I think she's trying to organize something. (8000+ pages is kinda a logistical nightmare.) -[[Special:Contributions/207.224.69.82|207.224.69.82]] 06:08, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

== Autoconfirmed ==

Right now, everything that requires "Autoconfirmed" privileges is out of reach to, well, EVERYONE. Maybe move that bar lower for a few days - there are pages like [[Sari Sumdac's Key]] which have been moved in the meantime (in that case, to [[Key]]) that can't be moved into their "proper" places right now, and that impedes trying to get them from caches. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 09:52, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

== Downloading script/Part 2 ==

It seems like most of the pages have already been downloaded (holy crap, that was quick), but for the rest, here's a script that will download pages based off abates's list: http://www.scoutshonour.com/files/cachecatcher.zip Just run cachecatcher.exe, and follow the instructions; it'll download the range to the pages folder.

It can also be repurposed to download any list of URLs if you replace the pageslist file. --Suki Brits 12:49, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::"The application has failed to start because the application configuration is incorrect." Does this need Python or something else to be installed in order to run? - Magnus Maximus 13:20, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::Apparently there was a bug in the version of Python I used to build it under; oops. It's fixed now. Anyone should be able to run it. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 13:56, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::::Yep, works now. - Magnus Maximus 14:13, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::I'm getting this: IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'pages/Classics_(disambiguation)' ... and nothing else seems to be happening. I downloaded and unzipped it, and typed in '1300' and '1499' for the page ranges, based on the list above. What am I doing wrong? - [[User:Tribimat|Tribimat]] 14:35, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::It sounds like it can't find the folder "pages" in the program's folder. If it doesn't exist, try making it. (I'm guessing your unzip program ignored it because it's an empty folder.) --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 14:44, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::::Yes, that's fixed it. Thanks! - [[User:Tribimat|Tribimat]] 14:51, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:Also, it'd be good if we could start consolidating the downloaded pages. Once we've got them all we can run abates' script on them (abates, if you could send that my way), and I'll figure out what the best way of importing them is. I've set up a temporary FTP account for today, so people can start uploading them. Connect to scoutshonour.com, username is tfwiki@scoutshonour.com, password is cache. --Suki Brits 12:56, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::Also also: mark it off when you've uploaded a batch of pages, so I can tell what's actually there. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 15:26, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::I was quite haphazard in my file naming. Is that going to matter? (I have things like "david disamb.htm", but I see whoever started uploading first is using pagenames).
:::Also is it OK to upload them in a zip file? --[[Special:Contributions/203.97.2.142|203.97.2.142]] 15:56, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::::Also also, how come none of the other pages have file extensions? Is that deliberate? Mine all auto-saved as *.htm. Is there a file type (or lack of) that you'd prefer we upload them as? - Magnus Maximus 16:19, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::It doesn't matter what the pages are named or what extensions they have. And sure, zipped is fine. It shouldn't be too hard to script a way to make them all uniform. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 17:06, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::Cool! My chunks are uploaded as zips. I also uploaded all the Hasbro Q&A articles I could find. I couldn't find March's questions though. :( --abates 19:25, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

Just so everyone knows, there's a one-digit discrepancy between the list [http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/allpages.htm here] and the numbers you enter on the cachecatcher. I assume this is because the cachecatcher is counting from 0 instead of 1 as the first file. I've used the list's numbering in my table entry, but also added the page ranges in case any get missed out by mistake. It might be a good idea if people indicate the first and last file they've downloaded, as well as the numbers. And Google's locked me out again, which is a shame, because it's not taking me that long to get 100-page chunks. - [[User:Tribimat|Tribimat]] 15:51, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

Here's everything I saved last night: http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/tfwiki.zip (I kinda already uploaded them to my webspace last night as a backup precaution since I don't trust my own computer stuff farther than I can throw it... but if you want me to reupload into the TF Wiki FTP I can.) It's missing 6400-6499 at the moment since my friend initially saved all the pages by copy and pasting them into Word (oops), but she says she's going to resave them as HTML (she just lives in Australia, so I gotta wait to get them from her). --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:59, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

abates, how's that perl script doing? If it's working properly, can you send it my way? There's a little bit of parsing to do, and we're still a few files away from being ready, but I'd like to be able to wikify the articles tomorrow. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 21:39, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:I've emailed it to your scoutshonour.com account. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 02:01, 18 March 2009 (EDT)

I just added a zip file on behalf of [[User:FFN|FFN]]. It contains files from his browser cache, from the same day as the crash. As such, things from TransWarped such as the page itself, Team Charr, Rodimus Prime and Oil Slick, along with probably a few recently-added Japanese theme pages, can be recovered. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 03:51, 18 March 2009 (EDT)
:Thanks. Unfortunately, I only managed to save a handful of pages before Firefox decided that it was a good time to crash and wipe the cache clean. Fortunately I managed to a small number of pages that had been created in the past few days and ones I had recently edited. Hope it helps. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:01, 18 March 2009 (EDT)

== Admin status ==

I don't have mine back yet. Sounds like Siph doesn't either. (I created a "repowers2" account so I could log in without fear of overwriting anything, and admin status was conferred upon it, but that account can be deleted.) -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 15:58, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
: Both you and Siph have powers again. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:20, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::I was going to switch my User page line about my admin status to a hidden comment until my status was restored, but now I get 404's for Talk, Preference, Watch List, and Contribution pages—mine and anyone else's I attempt to access. Is this another step in the process? I didn't notice a mention of it in the recent edits here. EDIT: Okay, after I submitted the above, the updated page came up 404. To see the revised page, I had to access the page from the Recent Changes page and go to Next Edit until I got to mine.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 20:12, 18 March 2009 (EDT)
::Pretty soon, we should probably get somebody who's actually one of us to maintain monthly backups, and test them somehow.-KrytenKoro[[Special:Contributions/98.223.230.49|98.223.230.49]] 20:33, 18 March 2009 (EDT)

== Non-Messed-Up Main Page Cache Needed ==

If anyone out there saving the Main namespace pages has the Main Page lurking on their HD, can you please [mailto:jeysie@alienharmony.com e-mail it to me]? I'd rather try just working from the HTML than try to figure out where the code on the recover subpage got screwed up, but Google changed their cache to our current version already. >.< --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:44, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:OK, FortMax sent it over to me. I'll see what I can get done to it, so we can get that blisteringly ugly layout off the front page, at least. Can someone upload the Wiki logo too while I'm tinkering? I'm presuming Walky at least kept his own copy... --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:05, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::Yeah, I got copies. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:12, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::Almost done here. Got almost everything recreated except the rotating fake disambig messages, but I figure we can come up with new ones later. (Or anyone who needs a coffee break from page saving/restoring can write some.)
:::Question though - anyone know what Derik did to get the logo to resize to fit whatever your screen size is? It's the one thing I'm stumped on. (I suppose I'll just hard-code-fit it to my 1024 screen for the time being...) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:33, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::::Aaaand, done, except for the aforementioned random messages and image problem. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:32, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::Er, the reason I made the main page logo 700px wide is so it doesn't look stupid on a 1024px wide screen... but if I'm the only scrub using a res that low, I guess we can leave it... --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:20, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::Well, we can make it grow with the size of the screen like it did before, but I dunno how to Wikicode that. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:04, 18 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::Yeah, that's actually a CSS issue. I'm gonna take a poke and see if I can find our custom CSS/Javascript after I finish rebuilding the Calendar template from scratch.
::::::Um... is anyone backing up our help/policy pages? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:19, 18 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::::Jeysie's done that. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 01:58, 18 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::::Yeah, it's in the big-ass file on my webspace in the Finish Summary, if you want to download it. It has my initial Main files, Templates, Help, and Transformers Wiki in separate folders in the zip. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 02:03, 18 March 2009 (EDT)

== Hours ==

A fun passtime. Keep track of the amount of time spent on crash recovery, and its approximate value.

How much would you charge someone for your time to do something you didn't want to?

{| class="prettytable"
|+Hours spent on recovery
|-
!Name!!Hours!!Value of time in $/hour!!Total

{{hours|[[User:Derik]] |16 |20 | LAST LOGGED 3-18 4AM}}

|}

I had to have spent 20 hours myself on stuff so far, I think. I only ''wish'' I could get paid for this... I'm out of work at the moment and could use the dough. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 05:36, 18 March 2009 (EDT)
:We can pay you in TFWiki Funbux! They're like regular money except... fun. '''NOTE:''' 1 TFWiki Funbux equates to 0.0000000000000001 Zimbabwean dollars. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 06:54, 18 March 2009 (EDT)
:You may ''wish'' you can get paid for this... but the totals you post represent '''actual money-value''' of damages done by parties responsible. Parties which are currently squirming on a hook repeating to themselves "well it's not like anything worth money was lost..." in defense of their own lack of competence.
:Please log your hours. A nice big number could have a salutary effect on negotiations-- given that our host has already clammed up defensively on us once and refused to do things that might lead to a full recovery. Walky seems to have straightened them out on that, but I would like a very '''big''' stick to swing at then, once with a dollar value attached. With lots of commas.
:TFWiki subsists on ad revenue. People have poured thousands-- probably TENS OF THOUSANDS of man-hours into this site in the last 9 months to make our content better than Wikia's, and to slowly crawl up the Search rankings. Bookworm not only destroyed that content-- they installed a "recovery" that has '''half a million links to our primary competition'''-- which once Google notices on ''top'' of the fact our content is now either the same as Wikia's or OLDER-- is going to send US plummeting in the search-engine rankings and push Wikia back up. Our content is used to generate ad revenue, meaning it has ''value''.
:I am perfectly willing to use this fact as a ''Bat of Obedience'' to prevent our fuckhead hosts from holding back in the future-- but make ''no'' mistake, it's ''not'' an idle threat. They could be sued for damages. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:07, 18 March 2009 (EDT)
::Well, I'm willing to log my hours for real if it'll help at all. Was more of an wry observation that, while I like spending productive time using my skills on my hobbies, I can never find a job that puts most of my skills to use in the same way...
::I do think some kind of recompensation is in order, even if we can't manage anything better than just booting the guy from his job on his ass. The sheer amount of incompetence is staggering!
::And I'm incredulous that they're claiming nothing worth money was lost. Even if we didn't get any ad income at all, this site does indeed still represent an ungodly amount of time expenditure, and time is indeed money. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 07:32, 18 March 2009 (EDT)
:::I have no idea if they're actually ''saying'' it. But they're almost certainly ''thinking'' "well, they never actually paid us..." (The fact that stems from their inability to send us an invoice nonwithstanding.) I'd really like to disabuse them of any notion that TFWiki's losses could ''possibly'' be covered by our hosting fees.
:::As for no job using as many skills as your hobby... I tend to think that since [[Transformerology]] requires the equivalent of a Bachelor's Degree, most TFWiki contribuitors qualify for an "expert rate." $20/h and up. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:41, 18 March 2009 (EDT)

:Hrm, I'm trying to remember what I charge for sleepless nights. --abates 15:33, 18 March 2009 (EDT)

== Wikia links ==

Is there no way to strip these out other than editing them out? Given that editing leaves them in the history, that doesn't seem desirable. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 08:47, 18 March 2009 (EDT)
:The history doesn't matter as much, since the search engines don't index it, and people generally only look at it if they're editing. --[[Special:Contributions/203.97.2.142|203.97.2.142]] 15:40, 18 March 2009 (EDT)

== Secondary to-do list ==

We still have a number of things to do beyond page recovery and purging wikia links, but most of these are lower priority.

*Fix article counting
*restore main page disambuigation
--[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 13:33, 18 March 2009 (EDT)
:Article counting was effed when we first moved in too. I think it's one of those things that updates passively over time. (I'd check the move-in Talk pages to see if we did anythign to fix it but... well... ) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 15:15, 18 March 2009 (EDT)

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central

2009-03-18T03:03:36Z

98.223.230.49: /* I am a dumb, stupid man */

Additional discussion on this situation can be found on these Allspark.com threads:
* [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=56439 "TFWiki Problems, Any idea what's going on?"]
* [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=51208&st=400&p=1155749&#entry1155749 "Major Wiki Work, A thread for additions to Transformers wikis."]

==Hey hey, what can I do==
I think at this point we must begin formulating plans based on the assumption that the site is a total loss. This means damage control first, then restoration, then prevention.

Assuming no good news comes through, it seems to me we need to take the following steps. Bein' that I'm not a tech guy, there may be more options than what I'm seeing, but here's what I figure we gotta do:

#take down the bulk of the site's pages so Google's cache will not overwrite them
#figure out a system to make Derik and Abates' caches of Google-archived pages accessible to editors as they come in (Derik mentioned it'll take over a week to get a complete set off Google.)
#if possible, automate the stripping of HTML tags and other non-Wiki goop from those pages before anyone tries to edit them, including Wikia links.
#find a way to divvy up a restoration workload among our 50 or so regular editors.
#find a new server. We would be idiots to remain here.

I still hope most of this will be unnecessary, but at this point, I'm losing faith. -- '''repowers''' [[Special:Contributions/99.140.167.2|99.140.167.2]] 12:08, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
: Spoke with Bookworm several times this morning. He still has a few more computers to search for backups, but, well, at this point I'm going to assume the worst. He is going to try to at least get our user database working. He wasn't aware that was a problem until I let him know. I think Scout is trying to get all the pages downloaded from Google Caching. I've grabbed a few of my own, but she's got, like, thousands of pages so far.
: As for getting a new server... anybody got any ideas? Hell if I know. Frankly, don't listen to me anyway on that. --Walky

::Take everything down immediately. The longer the site stays up as-is, the greater the risk of contaminating Google's March 9th cache and the more linkbacks we send to Wikia. Then we either beg Google for a mass infodump, or.... 50 editors grab 160 pages each. EDIT: or Scout gets them! Thanks, Scout; good to see at least the words "silver lining" in print, even if I don't see the actual thing itself yet.... '''Thylacine 2000'''--[[Special:Contributions/74.73.131.210|74.73.131.210]] 12:17, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::If we take everything down, what are we going to edit back together? WHEN are we going to edit everything back together? Taking it down just delays our ability to fix it. --Walky
::::If we've got our copy of the cache, then site shutdown isn't nearly as important. The main concern is that we'd lose the Google cache. Looking like retards... well, we'll just have to take our lumps there. (I guess we could set permissions for content pages to only logged-in users? Dunno.) -- '''repowers''' [[Special:Contributions/99.140.167.2|99.140.167.2]] 12:30, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::Even if it doesn't overwrite the cache, I see no reason to have the site up given the state that it's in. I say take it down until the head-honchos figure out how to clean up this mess. '''(Undecided)''' [[Special:Contributions/67.185.148.107|67.185.148.107]] 16:13, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::'''Dudes'''. I noticed our front page's google cache has been updated to our current broken wiki page. So it's already begun. That's just great. --'''FFN'''
:::::At the least people shouldn't be editing any single pages right now (aside from very recently created articles, user pages and stuff like that which our cache-trawl won't cover). Once we've got the complete site cache (and converted it to wiki mark up), either the whole thing will be uploaded, which will overwrite their changes anyway, or whoever does upload them will have to go through them all picking out which ones need doing and which need updating, etc., which will only create a shit-ton more work for them. Also, I'm not certain exactly how Google cache works, but I'm pretty sure that keeping the broken pages active isn't doing us any favours. - Magnus Maximus 14:57, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
Well, this is some solid proof that Wikia sucks pretty bad. Look how often this happens over there... ''oh.''
:What the fuck are you gibbering about? --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 18:10, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::Odds are, it's [http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-general-discussion/223458-tfwiki-post3408570.html#post3408570 this guy] trying to troll. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 18:13, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::either way, it's a good point - Wikia might still let the community come back.
::::But we don't ''want to''. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 20:25, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::::No it isn't. Fuck Wikia. We left them for a lot of reasons, and there is ''zero'' reason to crawl back to them. And even if we ''did'' go back we'd have the '''''exact same amount of work to do there as we do now'''''. It's infinitely better to ride this entirely surmountable problem out and stick with our principles and dignity intact. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:29, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::Amen. We had solid reasons for leaving Wikia. They lied to us perpetually. They stuck huge ridiculous ads in the middle of our content which we had to retool our pages around. Those ads TALKED. And as Siph said, we'd have every bit as much work to do there as we do here. We've learned a hard lesson with this weekend's stupidity, but the lesson's been learned and we can move on. This particular mistake won't happen again.
:::::But there's more to it than that. Right when we were quite openly making our plans to leave Wikia, their boss Jimmy Wales was tone-deaf or ignorant or arrogant enough to cite us as an example of how well his vision of the modern internet was working. Give the users a little space and they'll hand you all the free content you need, no matter how badly you treat them. Our leaving was subsequently covered -- not widely of course, but covered -- in real media. As ridiculous as it sounds, we're one of many test cases for how content creators on the web are going to be handled. If we stop now, we're declaring that Wales was right and digital sharecropping is the most anyone can hope for. If we learn from our mistakes and soldier on, we demonstrate that nobody needs these cretins who can't even show proper respect for the people they're profiting from. We do not need Wikia. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 20:50, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::Yeah but then you'd have a wiki that works again.
:::::::No, we'd have a wiki broken apart by ads everywhere, talking ads, more ads, ads pushing images down, ads pushing images up, ads here ads there ads everywhere. I'd rather we stick this one out and fix the problem within a few days than crawl back to people that lied to us repeatedly and stuck hidden links back to Wikia in the code prior to the move. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:40, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::::We could have a wiki that works now if we were willing to give up on all our work for the last several months and use Bookworm's backup... which is what we'd also have to accept if we went back to Wikia. Except that then we'd have big talking ads and lying liars to contend with. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 21:42, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::::Wikia would ''routinely'' break our pages with thoughtless coding-boner moves that were, really, just as stupid as what Bookworm did. The difference was that Wikia would eventually fix it, albeit after lying about the existence of the problem, then its origin, then their responsibility for it, then the guarantee that of course it would never happen again. The lesson here is not that Wikia is any less dumb and inhospitable than we already knew they were; the lesson is that we've uncovered other dumb and inhospitable hosting methods elsewhere. You don't pick one breakocracy over another--you pick a place that WORKS. '''Thylacine 2000'''--[[Special:Contributions/74.73.131.210|74.73.131.210]] 21:44, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

==I am a dumb, stupid man==
Just to get that out of the way. Should have told BK to back off on the database upgrade as soon as I saw his original email, and maybe we shouldn't have been here on this server to begin with. It was my call, after all. I'll do my best to make it up to you. Especially TOOG and McFeely, who did so many pages. When I remembered Google caches stuff at like 7 in the morning and started downloading pages whole-hog, theirs was the work I went after first. BEFORE HOT SHOT. That is how bad I feel. Nobody should have to watch through Energon twice. Or, uh, once. This is a terrible, horrible thing, brought on partially by my own incompetence and unassertiveness. Other people shouldn't have to learn my needed life lessons with me. --Walky
:Has Bookworm given any updates yet? Is he even still working on it?--KrytenKoro[[Special:Contributions/98.223.230.49|98.223.230.49]] 23:01, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

==What we've actually lost==
Okay, I've been trying to assess and give a realistic account of the information we appear to be missing. It's hampered by the lack of a search option, meaing I've been having to hit the random button until I've gotten to a page I can link to, and I may be missing something things, but I believe that we have lost the following sections:
*The work McFeely did on [[Energon (cartoon)|Energon]].
*[[Revelation]]
*[[All Hail Megatron]]
*[[The Reign of Starscream]]
*[[Maximum Dinobots]]
*[[Alliance]]
*[[Defiance]]
*[[Universe (2008)]]
*[[Revenge of the Fallen]] updates.
*Abates screen captures on [[Beast Wars]], [[Beast Machines]], and [[Generation 1]].
*Updated screen captures for [[Transformers Animated]] season 1 and 2.
*Last but not least, all we know of [[Transformers Animated]] season 3.

If I missed anything that stands out, please let me know. If all I've done is seriously depress you, then...I don't really know how to respond to that. -- SFH 13:49, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

:I'm not sure how worthwhile this is. I could add that we've lost almost everything related to the S.T.A.R.S. continuity (including the meta-page with that name), but seriously, we could keep listing pages forever. Not to mention that probably a huge majority of the existing pages have lost a lot of updates. I don't think there's anything we rank-and-file editors can do until either Walky appears brandishing a "routine backup" or Scout et al. get the Google cache sorted out and implemented. At THAT point, maybe taking stock would be a good idea, but until then, let's just go outside and get some fresh air. Toss a Frisbee around. Call up an old friend. - '''Jackpot''' [[Special:Contributions/216.231.37.133|216.231.37.133]] 14:01, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

::Yeah, we need a systemic, all-encompassing, computer-generated list of every page, since pretty much every page has probably been edited since the split. (though for the record, my list includes 15-20 Energon eps and 20-30 rewritten subgroup pages.) Said list needs a checklist option or something. I dunno. I had this written more coherently before the save page thing crashed. Whee, are we having fun yet? -- '''repowers''' [[Special:Contributions/99.140.167.2|99.140.167.2]] 14:28, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:I still have all those screen captures, so I can reupload them if necessary. Of course, the images are actually still on the server, but the out-of-date database doesn't know they're there. I grabbed a complete set of Beast Machines episode articles and a near-complete set of RID episode articles from various caches last night. Unfortunately the software I wrote for doing the same only grabbed 53 articles before it was throttled. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 14:47, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::We lost all the Titan collections that Emvee and I did. They weren't cached yet, but oddly the main Titan page had a cached version with the links I made to the individual pages. Wierd. This loss hits me really hard since I didn't start editing until this winter and '''everything''' I've contributed is now potentially gone. Since the tfwiki is one of the few joys I've had lately, it makes me feel a bit useless now. --Bluestreak7 [[Special:Contributions/98.213.132.186|98.213.132.186]] 15:03, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::''Of course, the images are actually still on the server, but the out-of-date database doesn't know they're there.''
::If that's the case, then perhaps they can be reinstated when/if Bookworm compiles a list of files on the server that are newer than a given date.--Apcog [[Special:Contributions/99.158.0.251|99.158.0.251]] 15:38, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
That'd be Rob's work on Energon, not mine. I've lost around half the Victory cartoon, and ''every single fucking Japanese character article I ever did that's not Shuta.'' I thought we were only back to post-move September status, but we've actually regressed to June. - '''McFeely''' [[Special:Contributions/81.158.171.149|81.158.171.149]] 15:17, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:I just saved as many of the Masterforce character articles as I could from Yahoo and MSN's cache (Google throttled me again) --[[Special:Contributions/203.97.2.142|203.97.2.142]] 16:15, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:Can't you grab anything between June and the move from Wikia? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 09:18, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::Well, I... oh! OH! All of that stuff is still ON Wikia! Oh-ho-ho-HO! *scampers off* - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 09:20, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
In the event that we can't find a more recent backup (and at this point, if server dude can find one from even as recently as January, I'd be overjoyed), do we at least still have the original dump we exported in September which doesn't have all the wikia links at the bottom? --[[Special:Contributions/203.97.2.142|203.97.2.142]] 16:11, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

Henkei's articles - toys, pack-in manga, and Comic Bun Bun are lost as well. Typing "henkei" in the search redirects back to the old Classics (2006) with it's last mod date May 2008. Cache helps a bit though. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 00:26, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

I'm going to see if I can salvage as much of the coloring book stuff as I can - between Powers and I, we put a fair bit of effort into it. -hx [[Special:Contributions/24.30.97.198|24.30.97.198]] 08:50, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

I am a broken man. I can muster the strength of will to do little more than sign back up. I have recovered my missing Victory episode articles... I would be uploading the Masterforce and Victory character articles now, since I have backups, but they are on another computer that has died recently. I am seriously getting bombarding with shit the last few days. Computer dies, business is turning sour thanks to the economy, and I say to myself, "Buck up, fellow, you've still got new Animated at the weekend to look forward to, and you can write it up for the wiki!" Fuck ''you'', universe. Just... fuck ''you''. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 08:54, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

:Man, I hear ya. This comes at a time when I really can't spare much time or effort to help out with the recovery. Plus seeing that much of my work wiped out... oy. I just can't muster the will (or time) to do much beyond try and help marshal the recovery efforts. Might be best to just step away for a few days. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 09:32, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

== Anything the rank and file could do? ==

OK, so there's obviously alot of scrambling going on from all who can to recover all the massive chunks of what's been lost, my question: is it at all helpful for the rank and file occasional contributor to be doing any editting at this point? I mean, I'm sure there are a bunch of us who would be willing to edit and add here and there to fix up what small bits and pages we can. Or would such small additions and peicemeal fixes just get in the way of the eventual large scale repairs? --[[Special:Contributions/71.235.138.121|71.235.138.121]] 14:59, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

:We really don't know yet. It depends on what Derik and Scout come back with. I can't imagine there's any harm in restoring pages by hand (it could presumably get lost in whatever mass upgrades we end up doing... or not. I have no idea.) Mostly, just sit tight for the moment. When we get a system figured out, we'll ring the bells to summon the fire brigade. -- '''repowers''' [[Special:Contributions/99.140.167.2|99.140.167.2]] 15:25, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

Pick a page. Stick <nowiki>{{bookworm}}</nowiki> at the top, it'll give you a link to that page's google cache. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:33, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

I've been wiping out those Wikia credits at the bottom of each page. Is this helpful, or should I stop? -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 06:04, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:Work on saving at least one 100-page set of Google cache pages first... every set we get is that many less we won't lose completely. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 06:43, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::I would if I had any idea what that meant. I'd never even heard of a Google cache before yesterday. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 06:55, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::Just check out [[#Pages .22recovered.22 list|this section]]. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 06:59, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

== How do I properly add info to an article's "recover" page? ==

I've done the bookworm tag on some articles and saved the google cache to my harddrive... question is, how do I post this data to the articles' /recover sections? Just copy'n'paste the text, or go nab the source code? Detour --[[Special:Contributions/70.26.248.28|70.26.248.28]] 18:22, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:I expect source code would be more useful. It will preserve the formatting, and someone can probably write a script to convert it back to wiki code. Plus, if I'm wrong, it's trivial to convert the source code to text, whereas you can't really go the other way. '''Chip''' [[Special:Contributions/69.139.147.179|69.139.147.179]] 19:01, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

:I do both, one after the other.
:The first is easier to re-format, but you'll often need to be able tog et the links out of the source code. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:01, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

== Automated Cache Recovery ==
Will this program I happened upon help any? [http://warrick.cs.odu.edu/warrick.html Warrick]. It's supposed to be something that can automate getting websites from various web caches. I put a job in their queue, but if someone who has web stuff (it needs Perl 5 installed) set up on their comp can run the program themselves right now, that would help. Or is that the sort of thing Derik and Suki are already doing? (Basically, I'd like to help, but I don't even know what "phase" we're on...) --[[Special:Contributions/96.240.212.69|96.240.212.69]] 18:59, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:It's being run. It'll take some time, and e3ven then... that's just grabbing a copy of the google cache before it vanishes.
:(Personally I'm banking on a localized reversal of [[The Fallen|the second law of thermodynamics]].) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:01, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::Well, if we're in the midst of saving the Google cache, than what we should do is... 1. Get a copy of as many cached pages as we can. 2. run them all through some sort of preprocessor 3. get a list of editors willing to help, give them each a chunk of the processed pages, and tell them to go to town reposting them. There's no sense in having people running around doing things piecemeal instead of being systematic about it.
::Which is why I was wondering if there was some sort of system already for having people grab cache pages, rather than just doing it randomly. I've been using [http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/allpages.htm this page] based on Abates' list to grab cache links for the Main namespace, and I have the first 400 links opened so far. Maybe if everyone took so many pages? (Although I have the advantage that I can force change my IP every time I run into Google's annoying throttle wall.)
::Also, I was thinking that we might consider just simply making a fresh install of the wiki software with an empty database, then simply recreating everything, if we're going to have to repost everything by hand anyway... --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/96.233.179.58|96.233.179.58]] 20:48, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::Make that the first 500, which I'm going to work on saving now. Do our various editors want to post here and lay a claim on a set of numbers on the list and work on opening and saving them? (They link straight to the cache page.) Not all of the links converted cleanly, but it's probably easier to just manually fix them as you go instead of me trying to spend time manually cleaning and reposting the list. I figure, once we know we've got the Main namespace pages saved, we can then work on trying to figure out the other namespaces. (Template and Help at the very least.) --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.218.239|72.79.218.239]] 21:06, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

== Restoring account status ==

Is it better to recreate an account, possibly messing up the caches for one's User Contributions, Talk Page, etc., so uploading images and such is possible? Or should we just sit tight a bit longer on that aspect until more restoration is done?--Apcog [[Special:Contributions/99.158.0.251|99.158.0.251]] 19:24, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:Re-create. -[[Special:Contributions/207.224.69.82|207.224.69.82]] 20:02, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::Feh. Okay, done.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 20:13, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

== Pages "recovered" list ==

In the however likely case we are not able to get a full set of backups from Bookworm, we should probably keep a list of pages somewhere that have been at least partially recovered via Derik's bookworm template and google's cache or other caches. This way any rank-n-file editor who wants to help out can just look at the list to see what's been done so they can go save other pages. Another way is to get that listing of all the pages and have users check them off when they've been partially recovered. Thoughts? --Bluestreak7 [[Special:Contributions/98.213.132.186|98.213.132.186]] 19:53, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:Well, here's a list of all pages that need to be ''recovered'' from the Main namespace: http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/allpages.htm with links straight to the cache pages. I've opened the first 500 links so far, and am half done with saving them, then I'll work on the next 500. Anyone else want to pitch in, lay claim to a range of numbers to save, and get on it? (Note: Not all of the links coverted over right, though most of them did. If you get an error, just fix any goofs in the link and try again. And keep a list of any pages where, even after checking the link was correct, it just didn't have a cache to save.) --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/96.240.208.203|96.240.208.203]] 21:48, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:I've written a Perl script to convert the HTML back to Wiki markup. It's not perfect, and I need to test it on more cache files, but it's faster than reformatting by hand. It could be provided as an online tool, maybe. --abates not signed in [[Special:Contributions/203.97.2.142|203.97.2.142]] 22:00, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::Okay, I'm starting on the 7000s. I'll see how far I can get before I need to get to bed. I'm still holding on to hope that all this cache work is for nothing, but not expecting it. [[User:Bluestreak7|Bluestreak7]] 22:28, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::I'll start the 6500s. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:30, 16 March 2009 (EDT) I got up to 6600 before it stopped me. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:47, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::::I'll at least be doing up to the first 1000 myself. And, I've found that if you have any way to change your IP, that will reset Google's throttle stop. (People who have rotating IPs can likely do this simply by disconnecting/reconnecting.) I also went and fixed all the broken links that didn't convert right, so feel free to refresh my list for the latest version. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:50, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::I have a feeling we shouldn't worry about the early ones. Both Derik and Scout have automated scripts for this, and I'm sure that's where they started. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:54, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::I'll try and do from 6000 to 6499, then. I've also got a bunch of other pages saved already, mostly G1 character pages. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 22:56, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::::Well, in my epic suckitude coupled with having other engagements I need to get finished... I've only made it to 6050... maybe someone can pick up my slack? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:54, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::::Starting with 6601. '''Chip''' [[Special:Contributions/69.139.147.179|69.139.147.179]] 23:06, 16 March 2009 (EDT) Ended at 6710. '''Chip'''
:::::I'll start with 5000-5100. Hope I can help. --[[User:G1MarvelBlaster|G1MarvelBlaster]] 08:51, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
[[Special:Contributions/69.139.147.179|69.139.147.179]] 23:55, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
Do we have a simple, automated way to grab this stuff? '''Chip'''
:Not automated, but, efficiencied:
#Open list in a new Opera window.
#Open up the "Links" panel.
#Select 50 links and "Open in Background tab"
#Select another 50 links after those load, and again "Open in Background tab"
#Drag the list tab to the taskbar to create a new window
#Reset my modem (to get a new IP)
#Repeat these steps until I have 5 windows (100 pages each) open, then go through each window saving everything as HTML.
--[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 01:06, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::If you're using Firefox, you can also use an add-on called "Snap Links" to open multiple links at a time. With it installed you just hold down your right mouse button to drag a selection box over all the links you want to open. - Magnus Maximus 03:24, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

===Status Report===
====Main Article Namespace====
Andrusi: 
Working on: 
Completed: 5801-5900 
Unrecoverable: <s>Rihoko_Yoshida</s>, <s>Rio_Gr fica_Editora</s> 

Tigerpaw28: 
Working on: 1839-2839 
Completed:1839-2087 
Unrecoverable:Dirt_Boss_(disambiguation), <s>Dirk_Manus</s>, Do_Over, <s>Doryu-</s> 
*3000 pages is a hell of a lot to do on your own. Why don't you just take one chunk at a time and let someone else help with the rest? - Magnus Maximus 19:53, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::If you can do a chunk someone else has claimed as "working on", then go ahead. Redundancy is better than not having the pages. --abates 20:44, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::I'll go ahead and take 2840-4999 off my list for now. If I get to that point tonight (I plan on working on it until at least 3am EST), I'll pick back up, but for now I'll drop it. Didn't realize how much of a task it was.--[[User:Tigerpaw28|Tigerpaw28]] 21:51, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

Jeysie: 
Working on: 
Completed: 1-1000, 6400-6499, 6900-7000, 7140-8292 
Unrecoverable: <s>1984 media</s>, <s>2008 media</s>, Akari Hibino, All Fall Down (disambiguation), <s>Alpha Trion (disambiguation)</s>, April 6, <s>April 16</s>, April 19, <s>Autofire</s>, <s>Automatic timer</s>, <s>Banjo-Ginga</s>, <s>Bat-Rob</s>, <s>Binbo-gami</s>, <s>Break Is a Predacon?</s>, <s>The Autobot Warrior, Sixknight?!</s>, The Big Book of Coloring Fun, <s>The Final Battle (RID)</s>, The New Battle Begins!, The Smashing Pumpkins, <s>The Strongest Tag Team?</s>, The Treacherous Attack of the Decepticons, The Victory Warriors Enter!!, Thundercracker (Shattered Glass), Tight Shot

<s>Super Ginrai Gets Blown Away in the Desert!</s>, <s>Susan K. Williams</s>, <s>Swarm (G2)</s>, Tlaloc, <s>Toaster bot</s>, <s>Tow-Line (Energon)</s>, <s>Transcendent: Part 4</s>, <s>Transformers Comic issue 19</s>, TransWarped (Part Two), TransWarped (Part Three), <s>Trevor Hutchison</s>, <s>Trust (Cybertron)</s>, Tsutomu Kashiwakura, <s>Ultra Magnus (Universe Spy Changer)</s>, Vector, Where Is Thy Sting?, <s>Wyatt's Roadsideaganza</s>

Slaves of the Insecticons

Detour 
Working on: 
Completed: 1801-1837, 6000-6050 
Unrecoverable: <s>Ryo- Naito-</s>, <s>Ryo-ichi Tanaka</s>, <s>Ryo-ka Yuzuki</s>, Deep Sea Discovery! Vector Prime

ItsWalky 
Working on: 
Completed: 6500-6600 
Unrecoverable: <s>Small Foot</s>, <s>Sojourner's Passage</s>

Chip 
Working on: 
Completed: 6601-6710 
Unrecoverable: <s>Spark (episode)</s>

Bluestreak7 
Working on: 
Completed: 6051-6151, 6152-6256, 6711-6791, 7000-7140 
Unrecoverable: Staff Sergeant Tracy, <s>Takuro- Kitagawa</s>, <s>Teiyu- Ichiryu-sai</s>, <s>Tessho-Genda</s>, <s>Team Ironhide</s>, Tech-Spec Manual, Tentakil (disambiguation), Terrorcon (disambiguation), <s>Sanryo- Odaka</s>, <s>Seizo- Kato-</s>

abates 
Working on: 
Completed: 1001-1300, 1500-1800 
Unrecoverable: Crown, Cybertron Redux, Charlie Bodin, Cheyne

Magnus Maximus 
Working on: 
Completed: 6257-6399, 6792-6899 
Unrecoverable: Studio 4˚C, Seven, <s>Shinichiro- Miki</s>, <s>Shizuku Amao-</s>, Showdown (disambiguation), <s>Sho-hei Kohara</s>, <s>Sho-ji Kawamori</s>, <s>Sho-ki</s>, <s>Shu-ta Go-</s>

G1MarvelBlaster 
Working on: 5102-5200 
Completed: 5000-5101 
Unrecoverable: Odette Yustman

Tribimat 
Working on: 
Completed: 1301-1499 Classics (disambiguation) to Crossblades (G1) 
Unrecoverable: Command Center

FortMax 
Completed 5201-1400 

====="Unrecoverable" pages=====
Those are actually recoverable. They're just searched for with the wrong characters, since whatever program we're using isn't equipped to handle odd characters like macrons. I'll be working on them. (Interrobang) [[Special:Contributions/69.23.135.79|69.23.135.79]] 00:53, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:Also, if pages are absent from the Google cache, try Yahoo or MSN. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 01:31, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

::I think I've gotten all of the macrons, circumflexes, accents, et al. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 01:58, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::Unrecoverable: Kazuhiko Gōdo, Yukiyoshi Ōhashi?

=====Finish Summary=====
0001-1000 Jeysie <nowiki>[</nowiki>[http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/tfwiki.zip Uploaded to my webspace]<nowiki>]</nowiki> 
1001-1300 abates [uploaded] 
1301-1499 Tribimat [uploaded] 
1500-1800 abates [uploaded] 
1801-1837 Detour [uploaded] 
1838-2839 Tigerpaw (in progess) 
2840-2999 Magnus Maximus (in progress) 
3000-3100 FortMax (in progress) 
3101-4804 '''Needed''' 
4805-4999 Bluestreak7 [uploaded] 
5000-5200 G1MarvelBlaster 
5201-5400 FortMax [uploaded] 
5401-5600 Phil [uploaded] 
5601-5700 Interrobang [uploaded] 
5701-5800 Phil [uploaded] 
5801-5900 Andrusi [uploaded] 
5901-5999 Interrobang [uploaded] 
6000-6050 Detour [uploaded] 
6051-6151 Bluestreak7 [uploaded] 
6152-6256 Bluestreak7 (I'll upload tomorrow [3/18]. They're at work.) 
6257-6399 Magnus Maximus [uploaded] 
6400-6499 Jeysie 
6500-6600 ItsWalky [uploaded] 
6601-6710 Chip [uploaded] 
6711-6791 Bluestreak7 [uploaded] 
6792-6899 Magnus Maximus [uploaded] 
6900-7000 Jeysie <nowiki>[</nowiki>[http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/tfwiki.zip Uploaded to my webspace]<nowiki>]</nowiki> 
7000-7140 Bluestreak7 [uploaded] 
7140-8292 Jeysie <nowiki>[</nowiki>[http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/tfwiki.zip Uploaded to my webspace]<nowiki>]</nowiki>

=====Unrecovered pages=====
{{collist|3|
*Akari Hibino
*All Fall Down (disambiguation)
*April 6
*April 19
*Command Center
*Crown
*Cybertron Redux
*Charlie Bodin
*Cheyne
*Deep Sea Discovery! Vector Prime
*Kazuhiko Gōdo
*Nightscream (Energon)
*Nobuyuki Saito-
*Nokia-bot
*Null ray
*Odette Yustman
*Quick Bow
*Robot Masters (cartoon)
*Robot Masters (pack-in comic)
*Scoop (G1)
*Scoop (Shattered Glass)
*Seven
*Showdown (disambiguation)
*Slaves of the Insecticons
*Staff Sergeant Tracy
*Studio 4˚C
*Tech-Spec Manual
*Tentakil (disambiguation)
*Terrorcon (disambiguation)
*The Big Book of Coloring Fun
*The New Battle Begins!
*The Smashing Pumpkins
*The Treacherous Attack of the Decepticons
*The Victory Warriors Enter!!
*Thundercracker (Shattered Glass)
*Tight Shot
*Tlaloc
*TransWarped (Part Two) ''[was redirect to TransWarped]''
*TransWarped (Part Three) ''[was redirect to TransWarped]''
*Tsutomu Kashiwakura
*Vector
*Where Is Thy Sting?
*Yukiyoshi Ōhashi (marked for deletion)}}

====Template Namespace====

Jeysie - Saved: Everything on [http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/templates.htm this list] formed by doing a search for "<nowiki>site:http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Template:</nowiki>" on Google. (Dunno how much good it'll do, considering, but I wager it's better than nothing.)

====Help Namespace====

Jeysie - Saved: Everything on [http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/help.htm this list] formed by doing a search for "<nowiki>site:http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Help:</nowiki>" on Google.

====Transformers Wiki Namespace====

Jeysie - Saved: Everything on [http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/transformerswiki.htm this list] formed by doing a search for "<nowiki>site:http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Transformers Wiki:</nowiki>" on Google.

====Talk Namespace====

Could we get a list of links in the talk namespace to download, too? That's the other important one-- if you can provide it in the form of just one plain URL per line, you can use my script to go through them. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 14:39, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:Sure! I was going to after we finished the main space, and seeing as how I wake up to find that almost done...
:I wasn't sure precisely what you needed from your comment, so, here's an [http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/alltalkpages.htm HTML file] that's basically like my article list except with "Talk:" stuck in front of everything, and here's a [http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/alltalkpages.txt TXT file] with just the number and URL written out.
:I should note it's going to have the same problem with the special characters, though, so it might be hard to tell what doesn't have a talk page due to being screwy, and what really doesn't have a talk page. :>
:Edit: In fact, we're going to likely run into a lot of "unrecoverable" pages (since not every article had a talk page to begin with), where it's going to be hard to tell whether they really don't exist, or if we should hunt for them in other caches. How should we handle this? --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:40, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::I think we should just resign ourselves to the fact that we may end up missing some talk pages. At the end of the day, they're not a huge deal.
::(As a side note, it won't work with the numbers in front of each URL.) --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 18:01, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::OK, I stripped the numbers and reuploaded. (I wasn't sure if it would work with the numbers after the URL, and I'm not sure of a good automatic way to do that anyway, so I guess we'll have to do ranges by title.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:34, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

Okay, folks, can we start trying to download talk pages? Just delete "pageslist" from the cachecatcher directory, download Jeysie's TXT file, and rename it to pageslist. It's the same process from there; although don't worry about documenting which talk pages don't download, because let's face it... a LOT aren't going to. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 21:35, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

0-8921 '''Needed'''

== Synchronize watches! ==

Hey techy type folks, I know y'all are busy right now, but there's a few things that need to happen so we aren't wasting people's effort and good will:

* We need a site-wide page-top banner with a short note on what's happened and quick links to the relevant threads, pages, instructions on restoring pages, etc. Also maybe an update on things as required.
* We need to coordinate Google cache pulling, if it isn't happening already behind the scenes. So far it sounds like Scout, Jeysie, Derik, Abates, and maybe some others have been pulling stuff en masse. It suck if like, everyone was pulling the same stuff and missing the same other stuff.
* The cache pull results need to be pooled into one big conglomerated mess somewhere. And auto-stripping/formatting, but y'all already know that.
* We need a temporary tag/template that can be slapped on top of a page when it's restored. Just a small text note would be adequate.

Sorry if I'm nagging and/or telling you stuff you already know, but everyone's efforts seem kind of random at the moment. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 21:49, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:Yeah, agreed. Like I said above, I'd prefer to:
#Have everyone right now just work on saving the Google cache before it changes. This is really the important thing right now, IMHO... we can't recover pages unless we have something to recover ''from''.
#''Then'' we can work on divving up the cached pages, sending them through a processor, and having people repost their batch of page code on the pages themselves (or on a clean install, would be my preference), doing any necessary manual cleanup as they go along.
:The current state of people sort of saving and restoring random individual pages on "recover" subpages isn't really all that helpful, IMHO. The wiki's going to look ugly for a while regardless; better to just be patient on making stuff look good and just tackle this in a somewhat organized fashion instead. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:10, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::This lack of coordination and general secrecy is hurting efforts. Since I requested help, people on TFW2005 have offered to help out, including people from beyond the board, but they're all asking me what they are supposed to do with their saved browser cache pages/google cache pages. I've been telling them to sit tight until *somebody* tells the people on the wiki what to do. Hopefully, something will be salvaged and this effort won't be needed... but what do I know? I have no idea what the status of things are beyond this page. I do have one suggestion - if and when we get things back to some form of normalcy, we better post a thank you message on the front page for all of those people who offered us help and/or best wishes. --FFN
:::Ask Scout. I think she's trying to organize something. (8000+ pages is kinda a logistical nightmare.) -[[Special:Contributions/207.224.69.82|207.224.69.82]] 06:08, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

== Autoconfirmed ==

Right now, everything that requires "Autoconfirmed" privileges is out of reach to, well, EVERYONE. Maybe move that bar lower for a few days - there are pages like [[Sari Sumdac's Key]] which have been moved in the meantime (in that case, to [[Key]]) that can't be moved into their "proper" places right now, and that impedes trying to get them from caches. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 09:52, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

== Downloading script/Part 2 ==

It seems like most of the pages have already been downloaded (holy crap, that was quick), but for the rest, here's a script that will download pages based off abates's list: http://www.scoutshonour.com/files/cachecatcher.zip Just run cachecatcher.exe, and follow the instructions; it'll download the range to the pages folder.

It can also be repurposed to download any list of URLs if you replace the pageslist file. --Suki Brits 12:49, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::"The application has failed to start because the application configuration is incorrect." Does this need Python or something else to be installed in order to run? - Magnus Maximus 13:20, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::Apparently there was a bug in the version of Python I used to build it under; oops. It's fixed now. Anyone should be able to run it. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 13:56, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::::Yep, works now. - Magnus Maximus 14:13, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::I'm getting this: IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'pages/Classics_(disambiguation)' ... and nothing else seems to be happening. I downloaded and unzipped it, and typed in '1300' and '1499' for the page ranges, based on the list above. What am I doing wrong? - [[User:Tribimat|Tribimat]] 14:35, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::It sounds like it can't find the folder "pages" in the program's folder. If it doesn't exist, try making it. (I'm guessing your unzip program ignored it because it's an empty folder.) --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 14:44, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::::Yes, that's fixed it. Thanks! - [[User:Tribimat|Tribimat]] 14:51, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:Also, it'd be good if we could start consolidating the downloaded pages. Once we've got them all we can run abates' script on them (abates, if you could send that my way), and I'll figure out what the best way of importing them is. I've set up a temporary FTP account for today, so people can start uploading them. Connect to scoutshonour.com, username is tfwiki@scoutshonour.com, password is cache. --Suki Brits 12:56, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::Also also: mark it off when you've uploaded a batch of pages, so I can tell what's actually there. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 15:26, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::I was quite haphazard in my file naming. Is that going to matter? (I have things like "david disamb.htm", but I see whoever started uploading first is using pagenames).
:::Also is it OK to upload them in a zip file? --[[Special:Contributions/203.97.2.142|203.97.2.142]] 15:56, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::::Also also, how come none of the other pages have file extensions? Is that deliberate? Mine all auto-saved as *.htm. Is there a file type (or lack of) that you'd prefer we upload them as? - Magnus Maximus 16:19, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::It doesn't matter what the pages are named or what extensions they have. And sure, zipped is fine. It shouldn't be too hard to script a way to make them all uniform. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 17:06, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::Cool! My chunks are uploaded as zips. I also uploaded all the Hasbro Q&A articles I could find. I couldn't find March's questions though. :( --abates 19:25, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

Just so everyone knows, there's a one-digit discrepancy between the list [http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/allpages.htm here] and the numbers you enter on the cachecatcher. I assume this is because the cachecatcher is counting from 0 instead of 1 as the first file. I've used the list's numbering in my table entry, but also added the page ranges in case any get missed out by mistake. It might be a good idea if people indicate the first and last file they've downloaded, as well as the numbers. And Google's locked me out again, which is a shame, because it's not taking me that long to get 100-page chunks. - [[User:Tribimat|Tribimat]] 15:51, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

Here's everything I saved last night: http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/tfwiki.zip (I kinda already uploaded them to my webspace last night as a backup precaution since I don't trust my own computer stuff farther than I can throw it... but if you want me to reupload into the TF Wiki FTP I can.) It's missing 6400-6499 at the moment since my friend initially saved all the pages by copy and pasting them into Word (oops), but she says she's going to resave them as HTML (she just lives in Australia, so I gotta wait to get them from her). --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:59, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

abates, how's that perl script doing? If it's working properly, can you send it my way? There's a little bit of parsing to do, and we're still a few files away from being ready, but I'd like to be able to wikify the articles tomorrow. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 21:39, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

== Admin status ==

I don't have mine back yet. Sounds like Siph doesn't either. (I created a "repowers2" account so I could log in without fear of overwriting anything, and admin status was conferred upon it, but that account can be deleted.) -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 15:58, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
: Both you and Siph have powers again. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:20, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

== Non-Messed-Up Main Page Cache Needed ==

If anyone out there saving the Main namespace pages has the Main Page lurking on their HD, can you please [mailto:jeysie@alienharmony.com e-mail it to me]? I'd rather try just working from the HTML than try to figure out where the code on the recover subpage got screwed up, but Google changed their cache to our current version already. >.< --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:44, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:OK, FortMax sent it over to me. I'll see what I can get done to it, so we can get that blisteringly ugly layout off the front page, at least. Can someone upload the Wiki logo too while I'm tinkering? I'm presuming Walky at least kept his own copy... --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:05, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::Yeah, I got copies. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:12, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::Almost done here. Got almost everything recreated except the rotating fake disambig messages, but I figure we can come up with new ones later. (Or anyone who needs a coffee break from page saving/restoring can write some.)
:::Question though - anyone know what Derik did to get the logo to resize to fit whatever your screen size is? It's the one thing I'm stumped on. (I suppose I'll just hard-code-fit it to my 1024 screen for the time being...) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:33, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::::Aaaand, done, except for the aforementioned random messages and image problem. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:32, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central

2009-03-18T03:01:16Z

98.223.230.49: /* I am a dumb, stupid man */

Additional discussion on this situation can be found on these Allspark.com threads:
* [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=56439 "TFWiki Problems, Any idea what's going on?"]
* [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=51208&st=400&p=1155749&#entry1155749 "Major Wiki Work, A thread for additions to Transformers wikis."]

==Hey hey, what can I do==
I think at this point we must begin formulating plans based on the assumption that the site is a total loss. This means damage control first, then restoration, then prevention.

Assuming no good news comes through, it seems to me we need to take the following steps. Bein' that I'm not a tech guy, there may be more options than what I'm seeing, but here's what I figure we gotta do:

#take down the bulk of the site's pages so Google's cache will not overwrite them
#figure out a system to make Derik and Abates' caches of Google-archived pages accessible to editors as they come in (Derik mentioned it'll take over a week to get a complete set off Google.)
#if possible, automate the stripping of HTML tags and other non-Wiki goop from those pages before anyone tries to edit them, including Wikia links.
#find a way to divvy up a restoration workload among our 50 or so regular editors.
#find a new server. We would be idiots to remain here.

I still hope most of this will be unnecessary, but at this point, I'm losing faith. -- '''repowers''' [[Special:Contributions/99.140.167.2|99.140.167.2]] 12:08, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
: Spoke with Bookworm several times this morning. He still has a few more computers to search for backups, but, well, at this point I'm going to assume the worst. He is going to try to at least get our user database working. He wasn't aware that was a problem until I let him know. I think Scout is trying to get all the pages downloaded from Google Caching. I've grabbed a few of my own, but she's got, like, thousands of pages so far.
: As for getting a new server... anybody got any ideas? Hell if I know. Frankly, don't listen to me anyway on that. --Walky

::Take everything down immediately. The longer the site stays up as-is, the greater the risk of contaminating Google's March 9th cache and the more linkbacks we send to Wikia. Then we either beg Google for a mass infodump, or.... 50 editors grab 160 pages each. EDIT: or Scout gets them! Thanks, Scout; good to see at least the words "silver lining" in print, even if I don't see the actual thing itself yet.... '''Thylacine 2000'''--[[Special:Contributions/74.73.131.210|74.73.131.210]] 12:17, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::If we take everything down, what are we going to edit back together? WHEN are we going to edit everything back together? Taking it down just delays our ability to fix it. --Walky
::::If we've got our copy of the cache, then site shutdown isn't nearly as important. The main concern is that we'd lose the Google cache. Looking like retards... well, we'll just have to take our lumps there. (I guess we could set permissions for content pages to only logged-in users? Dunno.) -- '''repowers''' [[Special:Contributions/99.140.167.2|99.140.167.2]] 12:30, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::Even if it doesn't overwrite the cache, I see no reason to have the site up given the state that it's in. I say take it down until the head-honchos figure out how to clean up this mess. '''(Undecided)''' [[Special:Contributions/67.185.148.107|67.185.148.107]] 16:13, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::'''Dudes'''. I noticed our front page's google cache has been updated to our current broken wiki page. So it's already begun. That's just great. --'''FFN'''
:::::At the least people shouldn't be editing any single pages right now (aside from very recently created articles, user pages and stuff like that which our cache-trawl won't cover). Once we've got the complete site cache (and converted it to wiki mark up), either the whole thing will be uploaded, which will overwrite their changes anyway, or whoever does upload them will have to go through them all picking out which ones need doing and which need updating, etc., which will only create a shit-ton more work for them. Also, I'm not certain exactly how Google cache works, but I'm pretty sure that keeping the broken pages active isn't doing us any favours. - Magnus Maximus 14:57, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
Well, this is some solid proof that Wikia sucks pretty bad. Look how often this happens over there... ''oh.''
:What the fuck are you gibbering about? --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 18:10, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::Odds are, it's [http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-general-discussion/223458-tfwiki-post3408570.html#post3408570 this guy] trying to troll. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 18:13, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::either way, it's a good point - Wikia might still let the community come back.
::::But we don't ''want to''. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 20:25, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::::No it isn't. Fuck Wikia. We left them for a lot of reasons, and there is ''zero'' reason to crawl back to them. And even if we ''did'' go back we'd have the '''''exact same amount of work to do there as we do now'''''. It's infinitely better to ride this entirely surmountable problem out and stick with our principles and dignity intact. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:29, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::Amen. We had solid reasons for leaving Wikia. They lied to us perpetually. They stuck huge ridiculous ads in the middle of our content which we had to retool our pages around. Those ads TALKED. And as Siph said, we'd have every bit as much work to do there as we do here. We've learned a hard lesson with this weekend's stupidity, but the lesson's been learned and we can move on. This particular mistake won't happen again.
:::::But there's more to it than that. Right when we were quite openly making our plans to leave Wikia, their boss Jimmy Wales was tone-deaf or ignorant or arrogant enough to cite us as an example of how well his vision of the modern internet was working. Give the users a little space and they'll hand you all the free content you need, no matter how badly you treat them. Our leaving was subsequently covered -- not widely of course, but covered -- in real media. As ridiculous as it sounds, we're one of many test cases for how content creators on the web are going to be handled. If we stop now, we're declaring that Wales was right and digital sharecropping is the most anyone can hope for. If we learn from our mistakes and soldier on, we demonstrate that nobody needs these cretins who can't even show proper respect for the people they're profiting from. We do not need Wikia. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 20:50, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::Yeah but then you'd have a wiki that works again.
:::::::No, we'd have a wiki broken apart by ads everywhere, talking ads, more ads, ads pushing images down, ads pushing images up, ads here ads there ads everywhere. I'd rather we stick this one out and fix the problem within a few days than crawl back to people that lied to us repeatedly and stuck hidden links back to Wikia in the code prior to the move. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:40, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::::We could have a wiki that works now if we were willing to give up on all our work for the last several months and use Bookworm's backup... which is what we'd also have to accept if we went back to Wikia. Except that then we'd have big talking ads and lying liars to contend with. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 21:42, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::::Wikia would ''routinely'' break our pages with thoughtless coding-boner moves that were, really, just as stupid as what Bookworm did. The difference was that Wikia would eventually fix it, albeit after lying about the existence of the problem, then its origin, then their responsibility for it, then the guarantee that of course it would never happen again. The lesson here is not that Wikia is any less dumb and inhospitable than we already knew they were; the lesson is that we've uncovered other dumb and inhospitable hosting methods elsewhere. You don't pick one breakocracy over another--you pick a place that WORKS. '''Thylacine 2000'''--[[Special:Contributions/74.73.131.210|74.73.131.210]] 21:44, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

==I am a dumb, stupid man==
Just to get that out of the way. Should have told BK to back off on the database upgrade as soon as I saw his original email, and maybe we shouldn't have been here on this server to begin with. It was my call, after all. I'll do my best to make it up to you. Especially TOOG and McFeely, who did so many pages. When I remembered Google caches stuff at like 7 in the morning and started downloading pages whole-hog, theirs was the work I went after first. BEFORE HOT SHOT. That is how bad I feel. Nobody should have to watch through Energon twice. Or, uh, once. This is a terrible, horrible thing, brought on partially by my own incompetence and unassertiveness. Other people shouldn't have to learn my needed life lessons with me. --Walky
:Has Bookworm given any updates yet? Is he even still working on it?[[Special:Contributions/98.223.230.49|98.223.230.49]] 23:01, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

==What we've actually lost==
Okay, I've been trying to assess and give a realistic account of the information we appear to be missing. It's hampered by the lack of a search option, meaing I've been having to hit the random button until I've gotten to a page I can link to, and I may be missing something things, but I believe that we have lost the following sections:
*The work McFeely did on [[Energon (cartoon)|Energon]].
*[[Revelation]]
*[[All Hail Megatron]]
*[[The Reign of Starscream]]
*[[Maximum Dinobots]]
*[[Alliance]]
*[[Defiance]]
*[[Universe (2008)]]
*[[Revenge of the Fallen]] updates.
*Abates screen captures on [[Beast Wars]], [[Beast Machines]], and [[Generation 1]].
*Updated screen captures for [[Transformers Animated]] season 1 and 2.
*Last but not least, all we know of [[Transformers Animated]] season 3.

If I missed anything that stands out, please let me know. If all I've done is seriously depress you, then...I don't really know how to respond to that. -- SFH 13:49, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

:I'm not sure how worthwhile this is. I could add that we've lost almost everything related to the S.T.A.R.S. continuity (including the meta-page with that name), but seriously, we could keep listing pages forever. Not to mention that probably a huge majority of the existing pages have lost a lot of updates. I don't think there's anything we rank-and-file editors can do until either Walky appears brandishing a "routine backup" or Scout et al. get the Google cache sorted out and implemented. At THAT point, maybe taking stock would be a good idea, but until then, let's just go outside and get some fresh air. Toss a Frisbee around. Call up an old friend. - '''Jackpot''' [[Special:Contributions/216.231.37.133|216.231.37.133]] 14:01, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

::Yeah, we need a systemic, all-encompassing, computer-generated list of every page, since pretty much every page has probably been edited since the split. (though for the record, my list includes 15-20 Energon eps and 20-30 rewritten subgroup pages.) Said list needs a checklist option or something. I dunno. I had this written more coherently before the save page thing crashed. Whee, are we having fun yet? -- '''repowers''' [[Special:Contributions/99.140.167.2|99.140.167.2]] 14:28, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:I still have all those screen captures, so I can reupload them if necessary. Of course, the images are actually still on the server, but the out-of-date database doesn't know they're there. I grabbed a complete set of Beast Machines episode articles and a near-complete set of RID episode articles from various caches last night. Unfortunately the software I wrote for doing the same only grabbed 53 articles before it was throttled. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 14:47, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::We lost all the Titan collections that Emvee and I did. They weren't cached yet, but oddly the main Titan page had a cached version with the links I made to the individual pages. Wierd. This loss hits me really hard since I didn't start editing until this winter and '''everything''' I've contributed is now potentially gone. Since the tfwiki is one of the few joys I've had lately, it makes me feel a bit useless now. --Bluestreak7 [[Special:Contributions/98.213.132.186|98.213.132.186]] 15:03, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::''Of course, the images are actually still on the server, but the out-of-date database doesn't know they're there.''
::If that's the case, then perhaps they can be reinstated when/if Bookworm compiles a list of files on the server that are newer than a given date.--Apcog [[Special:Contributions/99.158.0.251|99.158.0.251]] 15:38, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
That'd be Rob's work on Energon, not mine. I've lost around half the Victory cartoon, and ''every single fucking Japanese character article I ever did that's not Shuta.'' I thought we were only back to post-move September status, but we've actually regressed to June. - '''McFeely''' [[Special:Contributions/81.158.171.149|81.158.171.149]] 15:17, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:I just saved as many of the Masterforce character articles as I could from Yahoo and MSN's cache (Google throttled me again) --[[Special:Contributions/203.97.2.142|203.97.2.142]] 16:15, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:Can't you grab anything between June and the move from Wikia? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 09:18, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::Well, I... oh! OH! All of that stuff is still ON Wikia! Oh-ho-ho-HO! *scampers off* - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 09:20, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
In the event that we can't find a more recent backup (and at this point, if server dude can find one from even as recently as January, I'd be overjoyed), do we at least still have the original dump we exported in September which doesn't have all the wikia links at the bottom? --[[Special:Contributions/203.97.2.142|203.97.2.142]] 16:11, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

Henkei's articles - toys, pack-in manga, and Comic Bun Bun are lost as well. Typing "henkei" in the search redirects back to the old Classics (2006) with it's last mod date May 2008. Cache helps a bit though. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 00:26, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

I'm going to see if I can salvage as much of the coloring book stuff as I can - between Powers and I, we put a fair bit of effort into it. -hx [[Special:Contributions/24.30.97.198|24.30.97.198]] 08:50, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

I am a broken man. I can muster the strength of will to do little more than sign back up. I have recovered my missing Victory episode articles... I would be uploading the Masterforce and Victory character articles now, since I have backups, but they are on another computer that has died recently. I am seriously getting bombarding with shit the last few days. Computer dies, business is turning sour thanks to the economy, and I say to myself, "Buck up, fellow, you've still got new Animated at the weekend to look forward to, and you can write it up for the wiki!" Fuck ''you'', universe. Just... fuck ''you''. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 08:54, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

:Man, I hear ya. This comes at a time when I really can't spare much time or effort to help out with the recovery. Plus seeing that much of my work wiped out... oy. I just can't muster the will (or time) to do much beyond try and help marshal the recovery efforts. Might be best to just step away for a few days. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 09:32, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

== Anything the rank and file could do? ==

OK, so there's obviously alot of scrambling going on from all who can to recover all the massive chunks of what's been lost, my question: is it at all helpful for the rank and file occasional contributor to be doing any editting at this point? I mean, I'm sure there are a bunch of us who would be willing to edit and add here and there to fix up what small bits and pages we can. Or would such small additions and peicemeal fixes just get in the way of the eventual large scale repairs? --[[Special:Contributions/71.235.138.121|71.235.138.121]] 14:59, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

:We really don't know yet. It depends on what Derik and Scout come back with. I can't imagine there's any harm in restoring pages by hand (it could presumably get lost in whatever mass upgrades we end up doing... or not. I have no idea.) Mostly, just sit tight for the moment. When we get a system figured out, we'll ring the bells to summon the fire brigade. -- '''repowers''' [[Special:Contributions/99.140.167.2|99.140.167.2]] 15:25, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

Pick a page. Stick <nowiki>{{bookworm}}</nowiki> at the top, it'll give you a link to that page's google cache. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:33, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

I've been wiping out those Wikia credits at the bottom of each page. Is this helpful, or should I stop? -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 06:04, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:Work on saving at least one 100-page set of Google cache pages first... every set we get is that many less we won't lose completely. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 06:43, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::I would if I had any idea what that meant. I'd never even heard of a Google cache before yesterday. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 06:55, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::Just check out [[#Pages .22recovered.22 list|this section]]. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 06:59, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

== How do I properly add info to an article's "recover" page? ==

I've done the bookworm tag on some articles and saved the google cache to my harddrive... question is, how do I post this data to the articles' /recover sections? Just copy'n'paste the text, or go nab the source code? Detour --[[Special:Contributions/70.26.248.28|70.26.248.28]] 18:22, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:I expect source code would be more useful. It will preserve the formatting, and someone can probably write a script to convert it back to wiki code. Plus, if I'm wrong, it's trivial to convert the source code to text, whereas you can't really go the other way. '''Chip''' [[Special:Contributions/69.139.147.179|69.139.147.179]] 19:01, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

:I do both, one after the other.
:The first is easier to re-format, but you'll often need to be able tog et the links out of the source code. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:01, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

== Automated Cache Recovery ==
Will this program I happened upon help any? [http://warrick.cs.odu.edu/warrick.html Warrick]. It's supposed to be something that can automate getting websites from various web caches. I put a job in their queue, but if someone who has web stuff (it needs Perl 5 installed) set up on their comp can run the program themselves right now, that would help. Or is that the sort of thing Derik and Suki are already doing? (Basically, I'd like to help, but I don't even know what "phase" we're on...) --[[Special:Contributions/96.240.212.69|96.240.212.69]] 18:59, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:It's being run. It'll take some time, and e3ven then... that's just grabbing a copy of the google cache before it vanishes.
:(Personally I'm banking on a localized reversal of [[The Fallen|the second law of thermodynamics]].) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:01, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::Well, if we're in the midst of saving the Google cache, than what we should do is... 1. Get a copy of as many cached pages as we can. 2. run them all through some sort of preprocessor 3. get a list of editors willing to help, give them each a chunk of the processed pages, and tell them to go to town reposting them. There's no sense in having people running around doing things piecemeal instead of being systematic about it.
::Which is why I was wondering if there was some sort of system already for having people grab cache pages, rather than just doing it randomly. I've been using [http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/allpages.htm this page] based on Abates' list to grab cache links for the Main namespace, and I have the first 400 links opened so far. Maybe if everyone took so many pages? (Although I have the advantage that I can force change my IP every time I run into Google's annoying throttle wall.)
::Also, I was thinking that we might consider just simply making a fresh install of the wiki software with an empty database, then simply recreating everything, if we're going to have to repost everything by hand anyway... --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/96.233.179.58|96.233.179.58]] 20:48, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::Make that the first 500, which I'm going to work on saving now. Do our various editors want to post here and lay a claim on a set of numbers on the list and work on opening and saving them? (They link straight to the cache page.) Not all of the links converted cleanly, but it's probably easier to just manually fix them as you go instead of me trying to spend time manually cleaning and reposting the list. I figure, once we know we've got the Main namespace pages saved, we can then work on trying to figure out the other namespaces. (Template and Help at the very least.) --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.218.239|72.79.218.239]] 21:06, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

== Restoring account status ==

Is it better to recreate an account, possibly messing up the caches for one's User Contributions, Talk Page, etc., so uploading images and such is possible? Or should we just sit tight a bit longer on that aspect until more restoration is done?--Apcog [[Special:Contributions/99.158.0.251|99.158.0.251]] 19:24, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:Re-create. -[[Special:Contributions/207.224.69.82|207.224.69.82]] 20:02, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::Feh. Okay, done.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 20:13, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

== Pages "recovered" list ==

In the however likely case we are not able to get a full set of backups from Bookworm, we should probably keep a list of pages somewhere that have been at least partially recovered via Derik's bookworm template and google's cache or other caches. This way any rank-n-file editor who wants to help out can just look at the list to see what's been done so they can go save other pages. Another way is to get that listing of all the pages and have users check them off when they've been partially recovered. Thoughts? --Bluestreak7 [[Special:Contributions/98.213.132.186|98.213.132.186]] 19:53, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:Well, here's a list of all pages that need to be ''recovered'' from the Main namespace: http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/allpages.htm with links straight to the cache pages. I've opened the first 500 links so far, and am half done with saving them, then I'll work on the next 500. Anyone else want to pitch in, lay claim to a range of numbers to save, and get on it? (Note: Not all of the links coverted over right, though most of them did. If you get an error, just fix any goofs in the link and try again. And keep a list of any pages where, even after checking the link was correct, it just didn't have a cache to save.) --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/96.240.208.203|96.240.208.203]] 21:48, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:I've written a Perl script to convert the HTML back to Wiki markup. It's not perfect, and I need to test it on more cache files, but it's faster than reformatting by hand. It could be provided as an online tool, maybe. --abates not signed in [[Special:Contributions/203.97.2.142|203.97.2.142]] 22:00, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::Okay, I'm starting on the 7000s. I'll see how far I can get before I need to get to bed. I'm still holding on to hope that all this cache work is for nothing, but not expecting it. [[User:Bluestreak7|Bluestreak7]] 22:28, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::I'll start the 6500s. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:30, 16 March 2009 (EDT) I got up to 6600 before it stopped me. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:47, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::::I'll at least be doing up to the first 1000 myself. And, I've found that if you have any way to change your IP, that will reset Google's throttle stop. (People who have rotating IPs can likely do this simply by disconnecting/reconnecting.) I also went and fixed all the broken links that didn't convert right, so feel free to refresh my list for the latest version. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:50, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::I have a feeling we shouldn't worry about the early ones. Both Derik and Scout have automated scripts for this, and I'm sure that's where they started. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:54, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::I'll try and do from 6000 to 6499, then. I've also got a bunch of other pages saved already, mostly G1 character pages. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 22:56, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::::Well, in my epic suckitude coupled with having other engagements I need to get finished... I've only made it to 6050... maybe someone can pick up my slack? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:54, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::::Starting with 6601. '''Chip''' [[Special:Contributions/69.139.147.179|69.139.147.179]] 23:06, 16 March 2009 (EDT) Ended at 6710. '''Chip'''
:::::I'll start with 5000-5100. Hope I can help. --[[User:G1MarvelBlaster|G1MarvelBlaster]] 08:51, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
[[Special:Contributions/69.139.147.179|69.139.147.179]] 23:55, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
Do we have a simple, automated way to grab this stuff? '''Chip'''
:Not automated, but, efficiencied:
#Open list in a new Opera window.
#Open up the "Links" panel.
#Select 50 links and "Open in Background tab"
#Select another 50 links after those load, and again "Open in Background tab"
#Drag the list tab to the taskbar to create a new window
#Reset my modem (to get a new IP)
#Repeat these steps until I have 5 windows (100 pages each) open, then go through each window saving everything as HTML.
--[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 01:06, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::If you're using Firefox, you can also use an add-on called "Snap Links" to open multiple links at a time. With it installed you just hold down your right mouse button to drag a selection box over all the links you want to open. - Magnus Maximus 03:24, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

===Status Report===
====Main Article Namespace====
Andrusi: 
Working on: 
Completed: 5801-5900 
Unrecoverable: <s>Rihoko_Yoshida</s>, <s>Rio_Gr fica_Editora</s> 

Tigerpaw28: 
Working on: 1839-2839 
Completed:1839-2087 
Unrecoverable:Dirt_Boss_(disambiguation), <s>Dirk_Manus</s>, Do_Over, <s>Doryu-</s> 
*3000 pages is a hell of a lot to do on your own. Why don't you just take one chunk at a time and let someone else help with the rest? - Magnus Maximus 19:53, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::If you can do a chunk someone else has claimed as "working on", then go ahead. Redundancy is better than not having the pages. --abates 20:44, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::I'll go ahead and take 2840-4999 off my list for now. If I get to that point tonight (I plan on working on it until at least 3am EST), I'll pick back up, but for now I'll drop it. Didn't realize how much of a task it was.--[[User:Tigerpaw28|Tigerpaw28]] 21:51, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

Jeysie: 
Working on: 
Completed: 1-1000, 6400-6499, 6900-7000, 7140-8292 
Unrecoverable: <s>1984 media</s>, <s>2008 media</s>, Akari Hibino, All Fall Down (disambiguation), <s>Alpha Trion (disambiguation)</s>, April 6, <s>April 16</s>, April 19, <s>Autofire</s>, <s>Automatic timer</s>, <s>Banjo-Ginga</s>, <s>Bat-Rob</s>, <s>Binbo-gami</s>, <s>Break Is a Predacon?</s>, <s>The Autobot Warrior, Sixknight?!</s>, The Big Book of Coloring Fun, <s>The Final Battle (RID)</s>, The New Battle Begins!, The Smashing Pumpkins, <s>The Strongest Tag Team?</s>, The Treacherous Attack of the Decepticons, The Victory Warriors Enter!!, Thundercracker (Shattered Glass), Tight Shot

<s>Super Ginrai Gets Blown Away in the Desert!</s>, <s>Susan K. Williams</s>, <s>Swarm (G2)</s>, Tlaloc, <s>Toaster bot</s>, <s>Tow-Line (Energon)</s>, <s>Transcendent: Part 4</s>, <s>Transformers Comic issue 19</s>, TransWarped (Part Two), TransWarped (Part Three), <s>Trevor Hutchison</s>, <s>Trust (Cybertron)</s>, Tsutomu Kashiwakura, <s>Ultra Magnus (Universe Spy Changer)</s>, Vector, Where Is Thy Sting?, <s>Wyatt's Roadsideaganza</s>

Slaves of the Insecticons

Detour 
Working on: 
Completed: 1801-1837, 6000-6050 
Unrecoverable: <s>Ryo- Naito-</s>, <s>Ryo-ichi Tanaka</s>, <s>Ryo-ka Yuzuki</s>, Deep Sea Discovery! Vector Prime

ItsWalky 
Working on: 
Completed: 6500-6600 
Unrecoverable: <s>Small Foot</s>, <s>Sojourner's Passage</s>

Chip 
Working on: 
Completed: 6601-6710 
Unrecoverable: <s>Spark (episode)</s>

Bluestreak7 
Working on: 
Completed: 6051-6151, 6152-6256, 6711-6791, 7000-7140 
Unrecoverable: Staff Sergeant Tracy, <s>Takuro- Kitagawa</s>, <s>Teiyu- Ichiryu-sai</s>, <s>Tessho-Genda</s>, <s>Team Ironhide</s>, Tech-Spec Manual, Tentakil (disambiguation), Terrorcon (disambiguation), <s>Sanryo- Odaka</s>, <s>Seizo- Kato-</s>

abates 
Working on: 
Completed: 1001-1300, 1500-1800 
Unrecoverable: Crown, Cybertron Redux, Charlie Bodin, Cheyne

Magnus Maximus 
Working on: 
Completed: 6257-6399, 6792-6899 
Unrecoverable: Studio 4˚C, Seven, <s>Shinichiro- Miki</s>, <s>Shizuku Amao-</s>, Showdown (disambiguation), <s>Sho-hei Kohara</s>, <s>Sho-ji Kawamori</s>, <s>Sho-ki</s>, <s>Shu-ta Go-</s>

G1MarvelBlaster 
Working on: 5102-5200 
Completed: 5000-5101 
Unrecoverable: Odette Yustman

Tribimat 
Working on: 
Completed: 1301-1499 Classics (disambiguation) to Crossblades (G1) 
Unrecoverable: Command Center

FortMax 
Completed 5201-1400 

====="Unrecoverable" pages=====
Those are actually recoverable. They're just searched for with the wrong characters, since whatever program we're using isn't equipped to handle odd characters like macrons. I'll be working on them. (Interrobang) [[Special:Contributions/69.23.135.79|69.23.135.79]] 00:53, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:Also, if pages are absent from the Google cache, try Yahoo or MSN. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 01:31, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

::I think I've gotten all of the macrons, circumflexes, accents, et al. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 01:58, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::Unrecoverable: Kazuhiko Gōdo, Yukiyoshi Ōhashi?

=====Finish Summary=====
0001-1000 Jeysie <nowiki>[</nowiki>[http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/tfwiki.zip Uploaded to my webspace]<nowiki>]</nowiki> 
1001-1300 abates [uploaded] 
1301-1499 Tribimat [uploaded] 
1500-1800 abates [uploaded] 
1801-1837 Detour [uploaded] 
1838-2839 Tigerpaw (in progess) 
2840-2999 Magnus Maximus (in progress) 
3000-3100 FortMax (in progress) 
3101-4804 '''Needed''' 
4805-4999 Bluestreak7 [uploaded] 
5000-5200 G1MarvelBlaster 
5201-5400 FortMax [uploaded] 
5401-5600 Phil [uploaded] 
5601-5700 Interrobang [uploaded] 
5701-5800 Phil [uploaded] 
5801-5900 Andrusi [uploaded] 
5901-5999 Interrobang [uploaded] 
6000-6050 Detour [uploaded] 
6051-6151 Bluestreak7 [uploaded] 
6152-6256 Bluestreak7 (I'll upload tomorrow [3/18]. They're at work.) 
6257-6399 Magnus Maximus [uploaded] 
6400-6499 Jeysie 
6500-6600 ItsWalky [uploaded] 
6601-6710 Chip [uploaded] 
6711-6791 Bluestreak7 [uploaded] 
6792-6899 Magnus Maximus [uploaded] 
6900-7000 Jeysie <nowiki>[</nowiki>[http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/tfwiki.zip Uploaded to my webspace]<nowiki>]</nowiki> 
7000-7140 Bluestreak7 [uploaded] 
7140-8292 Jeysie <nowiki>[</nowiki>[http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/tfwiki.zip Uploaded to my webspace]<nowiki>]</nowiki>

=====Unrecovered pages=====
{{collist|3|
*Akari Hibino
*All Fall Down (disambiguation)
*April 6
*April 19
*Command Center
*Crown
*Cybertron Redux
*Charlie Bodin
*Cheyne
*Deep Sea Discovery! Vector Prime
*Kazuhiko Gōdo
*Nightscream (Energon)
*Nobuyuki Saito-
*Nokia-bot
*Null ray
*Odette Yustman
*Quick Bow
*Robot Masters (cartoon)
*Robot Masters (pack-in comic)
*Scoop (G1)
*Scoop (Shattered Glass)
*Seven
*Showdown (disambiguation)
*Slaves of the Insecticons
*Staff Sergeant Tracy
*Studio 4˚C
*Tech-Spec Manual
*Tentakil (disambiguation)
*Terrorcon (disambiguation)
*The Big Book of Coloring Fun
*The New Battle Begins!
*The Smashing Pumpkins
*The Treacherous Attack of the Decepticons
*The Victory Warriors Enter!!
*Thundercracker (Shattered Glass)
*Tight Shot
*Tlaloc
*TransWarped (Part Two) ''[was redirect to TransWarped]''
*TransWarped (Part Three) ''[was redirect to TransWarped]''
*Tsutomu Kashiwakura
*Vector
*Where Is Thy Sting?
*Yukiyoshi Ōhashi (marked for deletion)}}

====Template Namespace====

Jeysie - Saved: Everything on [http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/templates.htm this list] formed by doing a search for "<nowiki>site:http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Template:</nowiki>" on Google. (Dunno how much good it'll do, considering, but I wager it's better than nothing.)

====Help Namespace====

Jeysie - Saved: Everything on [http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/help.htm this list] formed by doing a search for "<nowiki>site:http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Help:</nowiki>" on Google.

====Transformers Wiki Namespace====

Jeysie - Saved: Everything on [http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/transformerswiki.htm this list] formed by doing a search for "<nowiki>site:http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Transformers Wiki:</nowiki>" on Google.

====Talk Namespace====

Could we get a list of links in the talk namespace to download, too? That's the other important one-- if you can provide it in the form of just one plain URL per line, you can use my script to go through them. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 14:39, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:Sure! I was going to after we finished the main space, and seeing as how I wake up to find that almost done...
:I wasn't sure precisely what you needed from your comment, so, here's an [http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/alltalkpages.htm HTML file] that's basically like my article list except with "Talk:" stuck in front of everything, and here's a [http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/alltalkpages.txt TXT file] with just the number and URL written out.
:I should note it's going to have the same problem with the special characters, though, so it might be hard to tell what doesn't have a talk page due to being screwy, and what really doesn't have a talk page. :>
:Edit: In fact, we're going to likely run into a lot of "unrecoverable" pages (since not every article had a talk page to begin with), where it's going to be hard to tell whether they really don't exist, or if we should hunt for them in other caches. How should we handle this? --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:40, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::I think we should just resign ourselves to the fact that we may end up missing some talk pages. At the end of the day, they're not a huge deal.
::(As a side note, it won't work with the numbers in front of each URL.) --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 18:01, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::OK, I stripped the numbers and reuploaded. (I wasn't sure if it would work with the numbers after the URL, and I'm not sure of a good automatic way to do that anyway, so I guess we'll have to do ranges by title.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:34, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

Okay, folks, can we start trying to download talk pages? Just delete "pageslist" from the cachecatcher directory, download Jeysie's TXT file, and rename it to pageslist. It's the same process from there; although don't worry about documenting which talk pages don't download, because let's face it... a LOT aren't going to. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 21:35, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

0-8921 '''Needed'''

== Synchronize watches! ==

Hey techy type folks, I know y'all are busy right now, but there's a few things that need to happen so we aren't wasting people's effort and good will:

* We need a site-wide page-top banner with a short note on what's happened and quick links to the relevant threads, pages, instructions on restoring pages, etc. Also maybe an update on things as required.
* We need to coordinate Google cache pulling, if it isn't happening already behind the scenes. So far it sounds like Scout, Jeysie, Derik, Abates, and maybe some others have been pulling stuff en masse. It suck if like, everyone was pulling the same stuff and missing the same other stuff.
* The cache pull results need to be pooled into one big conglomerated mess somewhere. And auto-stripping/formatting, but y'all already know that.
* We need a temporary tag/template that can be slapped on top of a page when it's restored. Just a small text note would be adequate.

Sorry if I'm nagging and/or telling you stuff you already know, but everyone's efforts seem kind of random at the moment. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 21:49, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:Yeah, agreed. Like I said above, I'd prefer to:
#Have everyone right now just work on saving the Google cache before it changes. This is really the important thing right now, IMHO... we can't recover pages unless we have something to recover ''from''.
#''Then'' we can work on divving up the cached pages, sending them through a processor, and having people repost their batch of page code on the pages themselves (or on a clean install, would be my preference), doing any necessary manual cleanup as they go along.
:The current state of people sort of saving and restoring random individual pages on "recover" subpages isn't really all that helpful, IMHO. The wiki's going to look ugly for a while regardless; better to just be patient on making stuff look good and just tackle this in a somewhat organized fashion instead. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:10, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::This lack of coordination and general secrecy is hurting efforts. Since I requested help, people on TFW2005 have offered to help out, including people from beyond the board, but they're all asking me what they are supposed to do with their saved browser cache pages/google cache pages. I've been telling them to sit tight until *somebody* tells the people on the wiki what to do. Hopefully, something will be salvaged and this effort won't be needed... but what do I know? I have no idea what the status of things are beyond this page. I do have one suggestion - if and when we get things back to some form of normalcy, we better post a thank you message on the front page for all of those people who offered us help and/or best wishes. --FFN
:::Ask Scout. I think she's trying to organize something. (8000+ pages is kinda a logistical nightmare.) -[[Special:Contributions/207.224.69.82|207.224.69.82]] 06:08, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

== Autoconfirmed ==

Right now, everything that requires "Autoconfirmed" privileges is out of reach to, well, EVERYONE. Maybe move that bar lower for a few days - there are pages like [[Sari Sumdac's Key]] which have been moved in the meantime (in that case, to [[Key]]) that can't be moved into their "proper" places right now, and that impedes trying to get them from caches. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 09:52, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

== Downloading script/Part 2 ==

It seems like most of the pages have already been downloaded (holy crap, that was quick), but for the rest, here's a script that will download pages based off abates's list: http://www.scoutshonour.com/files/cachecatcher.zip Just run cachecatcher.exe, and follow the instructions; it'll download the range to the pages folder.

It can also be repurposed to download any list of URLs if you replace the pageslist file. --Suki Brits 12:49, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::"The application has failed to start because the application configuration is incorrect." Does this need Python or something else to be installed in order to run? - Magnus Maximus 13:20, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::Apparently there was a bug in the version of Python I used to build it under; oops. It's fixed now. Anyone should be able to run it. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 13:56, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::::Yep, works now. - Magnus Maximus 14:13, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::I'm getting this: IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'pages/Classics_(disambiguation)' ... and nothing else seems to be happening. I downloaded and unzipped it, and typed in '1300' and '1499' for the page ranges, based on the list above. What am I doing wrong? - [[User:Tribimat|Tribimat]] 14:35, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::It sounds like it can't find the folder "pages" in the program's folder. If it doesn't exist, try making it. (I'm guessing your unzip program ignored it because it's an empty folder.) --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 14:44, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::::Yes, that's fixed it. Thanks! - [[User:Tribimat|Tribimat]] 14:51, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:Also, it'd be good if we could start consolidating the downloaded pages. Once we've got them all we can run abates' script on them (abates, if you could send that my way), and I'll figure out what the best way of importing them is. I've set up a temporary FTP account for today, so people can start uploading them. Connect to scoutshonour.com, username is tfwiki@scoutshonour.com, password is cache. --Suki Brits 12:56, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::Also also: mark it off when you've uploaded a batch of pages, so I can tell what's actually there. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 15:26, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::I was quite haphazard in my file naming. Is that going to matter? (I have things like "david disamb.htm", but I see whoever started uploading first is using pagenames).
:::Also is it OK to upload them in a zip file? --[[Special:Contributions/203.97.2.142|203.97.2.142]] 15:56, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::::Also also, how come none of the other pages have file extensions? Is that deliberate? Mine all auto-saved as *.htm. Is there a file type (or lack of) that you'd prefer we upload them as? - Magnus Maximus 16:19, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::It doesn't matter what the pages are named or what extensions they have. And sure, zipped is fine. It shouldn't be too hard to script a way to make them all uniform. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 17:06, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::Cool! My chunks are uploaded as zips. I also uploaded all the Hasbro Q&A articles I could find. I couldn't find March's questions though. :( --abates 19:25, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

Just so everyone knows, there's a one-digit discrepancy between the list [http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/allpages.htm here] and the numbers you enter on the cachecatcher. I assume this is because the cachecatcher is counting from 0 instead of 1 as the first file. I've used the list's numbering in my table entry, but also added the page ranges in case any get missed out by mistake. It might be a good idea if people indicate the first and last file they've downloaded, as well as the numbers. And Google's locked me out again, which is a shame, because it's not taking me that long to get 100-page chunks. - [[User:Tribimat|Tribimat]] 15:51, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

Here's everything I saved last night: http://miscfile.alienharmony.com/transformers/tfwiki.zip (I kinda already uploaded them to my webspace last night as a backup precaution since I don't trust my own computer stuff farther than I can throw it... but if you want me to reupload into the TF Wiki FTP I can.) It's missing 6400-6499 at the moment since my friend initially saved all the pages by copy and pasting them into Word (oops), but she says she's going to resave them as HTML (she just lives in Australia, so I gotta wait to get them from her). --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:59, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

abates, how's that perl script doing? If it's working properly, can you send it my way? There's a little bit of parsing to do, and we're still a few files away from being ready, but I'd like to be able to wikify the articles tomorrow. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 21:39, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

== Admin status ==

I don't have mine back yet. Sounds like Siph doesn't either. (I created a "repowers2" account so I could log in without fear of overwriting anything, and admin status was conferred upon it, but that account can be deleted.) -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 15:58, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
: Both you and Siph have powers again. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:20, 17 March 2009 (EDT)

== Non-Messed-Up Main Page Cache Needed ==

If anyone out there saving the Main namespace pages has the Main Page lurking on their HD, can you please [mailto:jeysie@alienharmony.com e-mail it to me]? I'd rather try just working from the HTML than try to figure out where the code on the recover subpage got screwed up, but Google changed their cache to our current version already. >.< --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:44, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:OK, FortMax sent it over to me. I'll see what I can get done to it, so we can get that blisteringly ugly layout off the front page, at least. Can someone upload the Wiki logo too while I'm tinkering? I'm presuming Walky at least kept his own copy... --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:05, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::Yeah, I got copies. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:12, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
:::Almost done here. Got almost everything recreated except the rotating fake disambig messages, but I figure we can come up with new ones later. (Or anyone who needs a coffee break from page saving/restoring can write some.)
:::Question though - anyone know what Derik did to get the logo to resize to fit whatever your screen size is? It's the one thing I'm stumped on. (I suppose I'll just hard-code-fit it to my 1024 screen for the time being...) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:33, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
::::Aaaand, done, except for the aforementioned random messages and image problem. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:32, 17 March 2009 (EDT)