Talk:Transformers Animated: The AllSpark Almanac II

2010-07-03T20:19:35Z

99.111.196.209: /* Gargent Cluster */

You know, I'm reallly trying to remain calm, and it's a bit expected after the first one and everything, but seriously, book in hand, and ''oh my freaking god you guys for reals.'' - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 11:39, 30 June 2010 (EDT)
:Is it that cool? Because the first one has already taken the definition of "loaded with Easter eggs, in-jokes and other cool stuff" to previously non-existent levels. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 11:49, 30 June 2010 (EDT)
::Broke the scale, off the charts, shattered trousers past what Rocherts did with LSotW, and maybe blew our socks off if anything from his reaction. :D All I know is that I'm going to be giggling/squeeing quietly to myself, looking a loon, after I pick them up. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 13:16, 30 June 2010 (EDT)
::Let me put it this way: On page 9, we get [[Octus (Animated)]]. And it's all uphill from there... [[User:JW|JW]] 19:44, 30 June 2010 (EDT)

== Alignment is now canon ==

You magnificent bastards. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 13:29, 30 June 2010 (EDT)
:Hnnh, and here we all [[Talk: Alignment|thought Jim was just joking]]. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:41, 30 June 2010 (EDT)
::The [[Template:Apocrypha|apocrypha template]] feels unlove. [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 13:44, 30 June 2010 (EDT)
:::It hasn't even been finalized yet! --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 14:08, 30 June 2010 (EDT)
::::Alignment? Canon?
::::Good grief. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:18, 30 June 2010 (EDT)
Details, please? I don't know of any way for Alignment-as-a-whole to become canon other than to be reprinted in its entirety in an official publication. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 16:32, 30 June 2010 (EDT)
:In the in-universe introduction, the authors note that they were going to take on Decepticon disguises from "Alignment, the true and accurate account of the future of Primax 984.0 Gamma as chronicled by Simon Furman". - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 16:35, 30 June 2010 (EDT)
:: UNRELIABLE NARRATOR --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:33, 30 June 2010 (EDT)
:::The fact remains that the specific story details of Alignment were never approved by Hasbro. Does Alignment become official simply because another official publication says so in such broad terms? [[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 07:21, 1 July 2010 (EDT)
::::You know, that's a good point. I wouldn't think Alignment can become official until it's actually approved as such by Hasbro. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 08:19, 1 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::Yet another question for the next Hasbro Q&A. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 08:51, 1 July 2010 (EDT)
::::::Isn't Liege Maximo being one of the 13 from Alignment? And "Galvatron II"? Seems like at some point it is pointless to argue against it being in canon. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 08:55, 1 July 2010 (EDT) (double checking my facts caused me to forget to sign)
:::::::Technically, Liege Maximo being one of the 13 was canonically from "Exodus" and "Galvatron II" was from a Japanese exclusive toy. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:50, 1 July 2010 (EDT)
::::Hasbro approved publication of ''this'' book, and there's absolutely no other sane way to interpret authorial intent, here. The creators of this canonical Transformers book intended to make Alignment canonical. [[User:JW|JW]] 10:48, 1 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::Yeah, it's not like the statement was completely obscured within universal-stream language, either, meaning Hasbro could easily miss it. It's pretty straight-forward. Unfortunately. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:52, 1 July 2010 (EDT)
::::::Unfortunately? Alignment was awesome. Hell, it's part of my personal canon.
::::::I'll just shut up now before I start rambling. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 11:03, 1 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::::I dunno, it all seems kind of silly to me. Because, hey, I have several fanfics (not by me) I wouldn't mind seeing canonized if we can suddenly make official with a single sentence (in a book in a different continuity by a different author, to boot) things that were never approved or officially published by Hasbro. (An author deciding to borrow elements from an unofficial story into his own official one is very different than trying to declare an entire as-is unofficial story as official canon.)
:::::::This seems to me like playing a bit too much more fast and loose with the canon wand than we should be. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 11:13, 1 July 2010 (EDT)
::::::::Hasbro ''also'' officially approved and published the Ultimate Guide, in which Simon Furman himself says Alignment is unofficial fanfic. As so often is the case when we get into author-intentism, it is now a contest of which author's intent we validate. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 11:32, 1 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::I'm much more inclined to go with the intent of the writer of the contested piece proper. Soooooo... --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 11:49, 1 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::Later material, by definition, supercedes earlier material, yes? Ergo, previously Hasbro didn't consider it canon (when TUG went to print), but as of 2010 they do. Same as the singularity-god-Unicron thing overriding his G1toon origin, f'rinstance. - [[User:Mammalian Verisimilitude|Mammalian Verisimilitude]] 13:35, 1 July 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::Not unless it's later material in the exact same continuity a la IDW or such where the later writer actually has some "right" to change the work.
::::::::::And things like the Sentinel/Zeta mixup (and there's been implications that "Hail and Farewell" also is an example) show that Hasbro or its appointed editors sometimes approve things they didn't realize the full ramifications of and later backtrack on. Do we have evidence that the current Hasbro folks know what Alignment is, rather than just thinking it was some imaginary book/story Sorenson made up out of thin air as a cute reference?
::::::::::Unless we do, I'm with Sipher on this one. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 15:57, 1 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::Furman says Alignment is fanfic, but does that mean that he would be against canonizing it? Saying it is fanfic is a statement of fact, it was produced without official approval. But Furman has used concepts from Alignment elsewhere so he is apparently open to the possibility of it coming into continuity. But the final arbiter is Hasbro, and I'm pretty sure your "thinking it was some imaginary book/story Sorenson made up" theory is correct. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 16:16, 1 July 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::We have never stopped to question whether Hasbro knows or cares about the minutiae in Transformers fiction and works. Why the hell are we starting ''now''? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 16:19, 1 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::Because up until now (AFAIK) we've never been faced with declaring a previously unofficial story as official and canon, have we? --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:33, 1 July 2010 (EDT)
::If it is in-universe, does that mean "the authors" you speak of are [[Bill Forster (Animated)]] and [[Jim Sorenson (Animated)]]? And this document they are talking about is "Alignment (Animated history book)" and this Simon Furman is "Simon Furman (Animated)"? Unless [[Alignment]] crossed dimensions from Quadwal to Malgus or something. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:50, 1 July 2010 (EDT)
:::If we're getting that down-to-details, I always had a problem declaring Beta Maxx and Caliburn to be Micromasters based on a magazine cover in an Amimated book. Doesn't that mag cover signify the creation of Beta Maxx (Animated) and Caliburn (Animated)? -- [[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 17:44, 1 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::They were Micromasters well before then, actually. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:42, 1 July 2010 (EDT)
::::::Right, they were always Micromasters. Also, that magazine spoken of is a multiversal magazine, so all of the folks mentioned on it were the originals. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 20:26, 1 July 2010 (EDT)
::::There ''are'' times I like the way you people think. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:48, 1 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::And on the other hand, there are times when I want to punch you people really hard. In the face. Twice. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 18:30, 1 July 2010 (EDT)
::::::Only a punch in the face instead of murder? Either you're slipping or we are, McFeely. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:16, 1 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::::Do you know how much Cybertronix I've translated tonight? I'm too tired for murder... - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 19:18, 1 July 2010 (EDT)
(Reducing indents for readability.) I'm honestly surprised this is a matter for debate. We have here a genuine Transformers product which says, in the introduction, in nigh-on so many words, that "Alignment" by Simon Furman is now canon for the Marvel Comics universe. I mean, what do we want, a burning bush? [[User:JW|JW]] 20:52, 1 July 2010 (EDT)
:Primus projecting his voice into our heads. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 21:19, 1 July 2010 (EDT)

Actually, McFeely, I'm joining you in wanting to punch people. This tendency to accept as canon statements from people who have no connection whatsoever to what they're retconning since they're neither editors nor official writers in that continuity is getting into irritating fanwank territory. 
Especially when it comes to things like Killzone and Sentinel Major, when you have the people who ''wrote the stories in question still here and present'' and telling you basically "No, sorry, it doesn't work that way". --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:15, 1 July 2010 (EDT)

== Season 4: Apocryphal or . . . ? ==

So, Almanac 2 contains an episode-by-episode synopsis of what Animated season 4 would have been. Since this is material included in an official Transformers publication, it obviously has a place in this wiki. I assume, however, that we don't count these events as ''actually having happened'' in the Animated universe? (I mean, an argument can be made that the events "happened", and we're just learning about them in canonical text-blurb form instead of canonical animated episode form . . . ) [[User:JW|JW]] 23:00, 30 June 2010 (EDT)
:The events did not happen. Unwritten and unpublished stories are at the same level as unreleased toys. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 23:13, 30 June 2010 (EDT)
::...er, these ''are'' published, though. Actually, I think I have an easy solution, which will have to be backed up by someone who has the book already. Does this part of the book have the "out of universe" hazard border or not?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 23:38, 30 June 2010 (EDT)
:::It does. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:15, 1 July 2010 (EDT)
::::Then that likely settles it.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 00:19, 1 July 2010 (EDT)

== What To Do With Bludgeon (Animated)? ==

This book includes concept drawings for Bludgeon (Animated), who could have been a character in Season 4. (Here's a hint: Arrrr!) Since he never actually appeared, he presumably doesn't deserve his own page, but he's kinda cool. Where should he be mentioned? This page, nowhere at all, in our hearts? [[User:JW|JW]] 01:04, 3 July 2010 (EDT)
:We have plenty of pages on unreleased characters. See [[:Category:Things that don't exist]]. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 01:12, 3 July 2010 (EDT)

== Gargent Cluster ==
Now that the Tonka GoBots have their own Universal Stream continuity family indicator, does that make them canon enough to include on this wiki? PLEASE? -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 15:42, 3 July 2010 (EDT)
:Not to mention the Xobitor stream. Robotix, man, Ro-freakin'-botix! --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 16:16, 3 July 2010 (EDT)
::Robotix is small enough to cover here in one page, alla the Tonka GoBots page. Maybe this could revive the GoBot sister wiki idea. Last I recall it was voted for and then nothing ever happened in constructing it.--[[Special:Contributions/99.111.196.209|99.111.196.209]] 16:19, 3 July 2010 (EDT)

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Talk:Transformers Animated: The AllSpark Almanac II