MediaWiki - User contributions [en]

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2010-09-28T21:14:57Z

Adamtheclown: /* Who hosts your wiki now */

__NEWSECTIONLINK__

This is the place for discussion of topics that affect the entire wiki. Some topics that would ordinarily be here have merited their own pages:

{{chapters|title=Specific Discussion Subjects|align=left|content=
<div class="list-header">'''Moving From Wikia:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving|Arriving]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving|Leaving]]
* [[Transformers Wiki:Community Portal/Complaints|Complaints]]
 <div class="list-header">'''New Ad Policy:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki:Ads|Ads]]
 <div class="list-header">'''Bookworm Database-Crash:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central|Damage Control Central]]
* [[Project:Bookworm Crash]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving2|Leaving Take 2]]
 <div class="list-header">'''Server Move:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving2|Arriving Take 2]]
 <div class="list-header">'''Relicensing:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Relicensing|Relicensing]]
 <div class="list-header">'''Dealing With Vandalism:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Vandalism|Vandalism]]
 <div class="list-header">'''GoBots Sister Wiki:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/GoBots|Discussion on the place of GoBots in this wiki]]
}} 

{{:{{FULLPAGENAMEE}}/Archive}}


== TFsource ad buy ==

TFsource contacted me, having seen our perennial Reprolabels ad up above and wanting in on a piece of the action, wanting to permanently buy one of our other ad spots. The question I have is, would/should we restrict them from ads depicting "third-party" toys and bootlegs? Perhaps this is the ghost of BotCon hovering over me, since their Wall Of Trademark And Copyright Theft Directly Facing the Hasbro Booth is prominent in my mind, and I know a few of the editors here expressed some displeasure with that. Is that a big deal for anyone, does anyone care in this context, or should I be all "ABSOLUTELY!" and then we make a deal and rake in the dough? Can we even judge, since we have, you know, all of this scanned material and whatnot? These are the questions I present. Tell me how much they matter. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:24, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

:All else being equal I'd prefer to avoid it, unless we're desperate for cash. We know some Hasbro staff look at this wiki and they've been clear in how much that stuff bugs them. Also, the more our pageviews include imagery of Fake Magnus Armor and Fake Springer and Fake Rod et al., the more we're going to have to deal with new arrivals who feel that's all kosher for inclusion in the main articles. If it's possible to get a TFSource ad that will never display a bootleg, then I'd have no problem with it. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 14:36, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

::Seems like a reasonable restriction for us to make to me. My take on our scans is that one, we generally err on the side of fair use in not uploading entire pages and making sure we credit the hell out of things, and two, they're not a 100% vital part of the wiki anyway--if Hasbro told us to take every scan down tomorrow we could comply and still have a perfectly usable (just a less visually exciting) wiki. 
::That's kind of different from openly advertising toys that totally violate Hasbro's copyright, though. Even aside from the legal tangles (which is no small aside, certainly), while I know we are in that murky grey area in some things, we ''have'' always tried to play as fair as we can with Hasbro in how we operate. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:40, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

:::I agree, no knockoffs in our ads if we can help it.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 14:44, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

::::Ditto on no knockoffs in the ads. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 14:59, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::ALL ABOARD THE DITTO ASTROTRAIN --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:07, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::N-O on the K-Os. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:12, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

::Yeah, if TFSource can give us ad without IP infringing product, I say let em in. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 15:17, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

:::Yikes, I'm looking at the side banner right now and it's full of IP infringing products. The one I see has Knight Morpher Commander, Crossfire Munition and Explorer and Warbot Defender. The only ACTUAL Transformers product in there is Masterpiece Ghost Starscream. I think it would be bad form to keep ads like that on the site. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 18:19, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

::::Ads without IP infringing material would be fine with me. [[User:MrBlud|MrBlud]] 18:56, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::Ugh. When they were allowed to buy the ad space, did they promise no knock-offs? - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 23:12, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::Big NO on knockoffs, including third-party. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 01:51, 8 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::I am cool with them buying adspace IF they only advertise official Transformers products. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 06:14, 8 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::I say YES to having the Third party stuff on here. As you can see by the continuity discussion above Hasbro don't really give a damn about Transformers fiction the way we do. The third party stuff proves that those guys have passion that many in Hasbro do not. And "knock-offs" is a bit harsh, no? So in summary, screw Hasbro and yeah Fansproject! And let's be honest if the choice as to who controls Transformers came down to a two-way battle between Hasbro and TFWiki, who would you pick? [[User:Drmick|Drmick]] 10:44, 8 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::Drmick, we're talking '''''IP infringement''''' here and we occasionally have actual Hasbro folks peek in here time to time. I think I speak for the others in that none of us wants them knocking on the wiki's doors with some form of a C&D or something that'll restrict us (save certain circumstances). We've probably toed a couple lines somewhere more than several times, and I for one, do NOT want our relationship with Hasbro to be messed up. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 12:22, 8 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::What LG said. Also, we're not talking about putting Fansproject's knockoffs on the wiki itself... just adspace for sites dedicated to selling such knockoffs. And I'm giving that idea a big fat ''hell no''. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:49, 8 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::No doubt the only reason the ad is still up is because Walky's on the road. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 02:38, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::::What ad are you guys seeing? All I see is a Project Wonderful sidebar ad (current bidder is Unreal Books) and reprolabels permanent banner up top. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 02:55, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::::I'm seeing a TFSource ad ABSOLUTELY FULL of pics of third-party stuff. And MP Ghost Starscream. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 02:57, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::::::Yeah, for some reason I'm not seeing any of that. I just see two Project Wonderful ads on the left hand side "Advertisement" sidebar, so TF Source's ad must be triggered by IP address or something. Also, if the ad is already up after only one day (or less) of community consultation, and Walky's not around to deal with administration problems relating to it (especially as there is a fear of how TF Source's wares would look to Hasbro), then that's poor planning on his part, (no offense intended, boss.) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:02, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::::::Weird, it's gone for me, now. Where it was I have a Project Wonderful ad displaying Akemi's Anime World. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 03:11, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::::::::Still there for me. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 03:36, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::::::::Just tried it on another browser that I never use (in case there's some cache thing on the main browser - no change, I don't see the TF Source banner. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:18, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::::::::::Project Wonderful ads are localized, guys. TFSource probably just shelled out the dough for their ad in the States only. I've never seen it up, myself. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 04:34, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::::::::::I'm in ''Poland'', Detour. That's on an entirely different ''continent'' than the US. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 04:37, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::::::::::::I'm in Canada, and I have seen it. I just don't see it anymore. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 04:44, 9 July 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::::Wait, you're Polish? I had no idea. You talk gooder English than me. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 04:39, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::::::::::::: The advert's currently only displaying in Europe. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 05:26, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::::::::::::: No wonder, all I see are just two Project Wonderful random ads. And I'm in Taiwan. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 05:52, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

TFsource said they were willing to give us a banner that has no third-party stuff on it! Hooray! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 08:01, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

:Oh yeh, that sounds nice to me. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 08:09, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

::And it should be noted that during the time we were displaying the "offending" ad, we had not yet agreed to have an adspace bought out by TFSource. They'd just bought the ad the normal way, and as they'd been a prior bidder, they were pre-approved.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 11:13, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

:::Excellent - my apologies, Walky. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:00, 10 July 2010 (EDT)
That sidebar ad with the knock-off Swindle, Springer, and HoS Optimus has started showing up for me again, in Canada if that's relevant. It had stopped showing up less than a day after I first saw it, but now it's there again. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 23:46, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

:Another Canadian here. Same situation as Cattleprod. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 23:58, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

::Me too, same ad as before, knockoffs and all. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 03:12, 12 July 2010 (EDT)
:::Yep, knock-off ad here too. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 12:44, 12 July 2010 (EDT)

::::On the Project Wonderful site, both the Canadian and EU traffic are seeing the version of the banner with the Munitioner upgrade sets, Knight Morpher Commander and Warbot Defender. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:24, 12 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::Now I see THE ad, too. (Taiwan, Asia) --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 22:40, 15 July 2010 (EDT)

Welp, Californian and now I'm seeing the Munitioner set, alongside Knight Morpher and Warbot Defender with MP Ghost Starscream. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 02:26, 14 July 2010 (EDT)
:I'm in Ohio and getting Naruto vol. 48 as the ad. --[[User:Tigerpaw28|Tigerpaw28]] 02:45, 14 July 2010 (EDT)

::TFSource's knockoffs ad is back for Canadian and European visitors. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 08:59, 15 July 2010 (EDT)

:::Seeing all sorts of KOs advertised now. Can we void their contract and keep their money as a fine for breaking their agreement with us? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:02, 15 July 2010 (EDT)PS- since when is NC in Europe/Canada?

:::Welp, [http://img535.imageshack.us/i/tfsourcead01.jpg/ this] [http://img693.imageshack.us/i/tfsourcead02.jpg/ I certainly] [http://img14.imageshack.us/i/tfsourcead03.jpg/ agree]. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 15:05, 15 July 2010 (EDT)

::::Same here, and I'm American. I'm only sort of mentioning this because they let someone steal my credit card. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 22:50, 17 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::As mentioned, we haven't actually committed to any deal yet with them, and any ads you see are them going through the standard Project Wonderful process. They've bought ads with us before, and thus as long as they have the high bid, they're pre-approved. They're going to have the proposed first-party-products-only ad to submit to Walky sometime next week.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 23:11, 17 July 2010 (EDT)

====Guys====
There is no "contract" to "void." Their permanent ad buy hasn't STARTED. They've been advertising with those particular ads for months. You've just finally noticed them because I brought them up. We haven't even discussed what the ad space will cost them since I've been busy and they said they won't have a new ad for us for about a week anyway. So, like, chill out. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:31, 15 July 2010 (EDT)

:For months? Huh... --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 17:21, 15 July 2010 (EDT)

====And it's done====
TFsource owns our skyscraper until whenever they don't want to anymore. It's all official stuff, so everyone happy? (Yay!) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:06, 30 July 2010 (EDT)
:Can we please somehow code it to say "This ad comes with a 100% chance of not causing us headaches" beneath the ad? (Nah, not really.)
:Also, I'm happy. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 16:29, 30 July 2010 (EDT)

:Looks awesome! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:29, 30 July 2010 (EDT)
:That looks great! Nice and slick-looking. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:55, 31 July 2010 (EDT)

== Simon Furman's IDW pitch ==

So here's a thing. The following text is Simon Furman's original pitch for Transformers comics when IDW took up the license, printed in the back of the "Best of Simon Furman" hardback collection. I skimmed this a few years back when the book was released and it passed under my nose at work, but since then, we've never had any of the info on the wiki, and I've never seen any discussion of it on any forums - presumably because none of us actually BOUGHT the dang thing, since we own all these stories in multiple formats already. I borrowed the book and transcribed the pitch so that anyone interested can read it, and we can maybe actually do something with the info. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 11:01, 8 July 2010 (EDT)
:Hmm. I've never seen this before. It's pretty interesting that Furman was itching to do Cybertron , which is weird, because by the time IDW was announced as the new comic licensee, Cybertron had started. Would take awhile to get a Cybertron comic up and running, I would think. By the time it came out, it might be already too late. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 02:58, 9 July 2010 (EDT)
::It wouldn't surprise me if that's why it was modified so much. But, um, should we be duplicating this sort of material here? I mean, sure, The Best of Simon Furman wasn't the most popular book, but isn't this just copyright infringement? --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 03:18, 9 July 2010 (EDT)
:::Yeah, that was on my mind as I was transcribing it. I don't really intend to permanently house this anywhere - I just wanted to get it up so people could get a look, take in the info, maybe do something wiki-related with it, then I'd scrub it. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 11:18, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

TRANSFORMERS… A NEW DIRECTION

A Proposal For IDW

--Simon Furman--

In the (Armada/Energon) Cybertron timeline…

…UNICRON IS DESTROYED, utterly wiped out of existence by a seismic shock warhead detonated deep within its superstructure (events which would be visited retroactively in any subsequent ‘Energon’ conclusion issues).

But as one threat to Cybertron ends, another has only just begun. A rift in time and space – a massive ‘chronal’ black hole formed by the annihilation of Unicron – is threatening to suck Cybertron in, tear it apart in an internal maelstrom of deconstructed space and time. Only by anchoring the planet, via a spacebridge, to Earth’s energon core can Cybertron maintain its tenuous position, but it’s at best a quick fix. To seal the rift, they need the power of PRIMUS, the progenitor of the entire TRANSFORMERS race. But while a fragment of the dormant Primus lifeforce exists within Cybertron, the rest is lost, scattered throughout the universe, buried deep within strange, alien worlds.

Roused (from eons of chronal stasis in a dimension outside of normal space and time) by the impending cataclysm, the immortal sentinel known as Vector Prime spearheads the search for the Primus lifeforce, guiding Optimus Prime and his Autobots on a quest that will take them to aliens worlds in the farthest corners of the galaxy and beyond. But where Prime and the Autobots go… Megatron and the Decepticons are never far behind.

Clad in the armor of Unicron, fuelled by a fragment of his Spark, Megatron has become a true agent of chaos. He’s prepared to sacrifice Cybertron, Earth and any other world in order to contain and absorb the lifeforce of Primus himself, his ultimate aim to transform himself… into a living god!

And the ‘Cybertron’ timeline is not the only one to feel the effects of the destruction of Unicron. In fact… it’s one of the lucky ones.

<<In all the disparate timelines, all the myriad dimensions, there is but one Unicron. Though physical presence is limited to a single reality at any given time, it exists simultaneously in countless dimensions, shadows of its vast, ancient consciousness inextricably interwoven into the complex geometry of time and space. Its destruction in the Cybertron timeline creates ripples, which become shockwaves, which gather force, become a tidal wave of destruction. In some realities, the effect of the ‘chaos wave’ is total, instantaneous, entire timelines… wiped out. In others, the initial effect is less pronounced, a dramatic event heralding a slow descent into space/time anarchy.>>

In the G1 timeline…

…CYBERTRON IS DESTROYED! The resident Autobots and Decepticons barely have time to evacuate the planet, to eject the core of the planet and it’s precious Vector Sigma cargo (an eventuality made feasible way back when [in The War Within v3]) before the planet is torn apart, smashed into component molecules by the roiling chaos wave. Many Cybertronians don’t make it at all, and are simply wiped out. In a shockingly short time, Cybertron is gone. Forever.

Shocked, stunned, bereft of their homeworld, the remaining populous finds itself spread far and wide throughout the galaxy, seeking (in the Autobots’ case) safe harbor or (in the Decepticons’ case) new worlds to conquer… and colonise. Megatron’s Decepticons have perfecting ‘mechaforming’ technology, invasive, self-replicating machinery designed to restructure the entire geological substructure of a planet, in effect turn it into a new Cybertron. And since the Decepticons are indifferent to the presence or fate of any indigenous civilizations on the planet(s) of choice, it’s down to the Autobots to stop them… at any cost.

Earth, always a pivotal world in the G1 timeline, becomes even more of a focal battleground. Its natural resources are a potent brew that – with the right exploitation and manipulation – can be turned into energon, the lifeblood of the Transformer race. In Decepticon hands the whole world would be turned into a vast refinery, bled dry to fuel the creation of the ‘new’ Cybertron.

And Optimus Prime has an even more pressing concern. Contacted by Vector Prime (who can move within all remaining TF timelines), he is warned that the omniversal geometry is critically out of alignment. The removal of – for want of a better word – ‘evil’ has disturbed an age-old natural balance. Though it goes against every Autobot credo, they must somehow resurrect the dark force known, among other things, as Unicron! The key is the so-called ‘Decepticon Matrix’, a quasi-mythical power source spread throughout the galaxy. Said to be fragments of Unicron itself, released in some apocalyptic confrontation with Primus before the dawn of time, its retrieval and coalescence could restore the balance and dissipate the chaos wave.

Reluctantly, with grave reservations (and considerable dissent in the Autobot ranks) Prime forges an uneasy alliance with two of Unicron’s heralds, Cylonus and Scourge, both of whom are dedicated to the rebirth of their master (for different reasons). But, unknown to Prime, they have a secondary agenda, a plan to use a fragment of the Decepticon Matrix to destroy Megatron… and recreate him as the unstoppable force known as Galvatron!

<<And so, in one timeline, the Autobots seek to make Primus whole once more, while in another, they seek to resurrect the spirit of Unicron, leading ultimately to the new, universe-shaking confrontation between the two ancient forces… one that will (briefly) unite all remaining TRANSFORMERS timelines and continuities in an epic battle for survival.>>

CYBERTRON #0 (AND ONGOING)/G1 #0 (AND ONGOING)

Amidst the larger framework of the ‘chaos wave’ saga, the ongoing thrust of Cybertron is a focused series of one or two-part (largely self-contained, featuring different character assortments) adventures set on Cybertron, Earth and the key planets (Speed, Beast and Giant) that support its core quest… the search for the lifeforce of Primus. At every turn, the Autobots are confounded and frustrated by the Decepticons, but in the process forge new alliances and friendships, both on Earth and beyond. It’s a race against time… with the fate of Cybertron (and more) hanging in the balance.

The G1 title expands the scope and reach of the line, exploring wider character/conflict story arcs (while pulling in much more fan-friendly past and future continuity) and dramatically shaking the whole TRANSFORMERS mythos to its core, streamlining and redefining the sometimes confusing mass of ‘alternate’ timelines. But as with Cybertron, the focus will shift to different groups of Autobots/Decepticons on different worlds, faced with differing agendas and challenges.

The issue #0s will be mirror-images of each other, both told from the perspective of Vector Prime as he awakens to an omniverse in chaos, threatened on all fronts. His narrative will serve to encapsulate what has gone before while his actions introduce the primary cast and lay the groundwork for what is to come.

===Noticed something===

{{quote|both told from the perspective of Vector Prime as he awakens to an '''omniverse''' in chaos}}

Some use of the word [[omniverse]]. Wow. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 10:16, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

===Added it in somewheres===
I've added references to that thing at [[IDW Generation 1 continuity]] and [[Cybertron (franchise)]]. Did I do it right? --[[User:Fortress Minimus|Fortress Minimus]] 17:21, 19 July 2010 (EDT)

== Usernames ==

Our latest user [[User:Michaelbayblows|Michaelbayblows]] has what I consider to be a somewhat inflammatory username considering the how many arguments ensue regarding the live-action movies. It's probable that you would have difficulty registering on a forum with such a username. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 15:56, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

:I was thinking the same thing. We blocked some guy from registering such a name referencing Detour, why should we allow such statements against Bay? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 16:09, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

::Yeah, I also thought his name was inappropriate. I don't think personal threats would be acceptable here, particularly about such a controversial figure in Transformers fandom. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 16:10, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

:::On Wookieepedia we routinely block people for having inappropriate names. I see no reason why we shouldn't have a similar policy here. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 16:19, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

::::How he creates a new account and the old one is blocked? Some of his edits aren't too bad; I don't see why he shouldn't get a second chance. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 16:21, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::Block the old account, post a nice note explaining that we want him to stay and continue working but that he cannot use a name that is attacking/insulting any person. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 16:32, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::I am in support of this, but he should be informed via his talkpage for one full day prior to the block, for the sake of not being too harsh. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 18:04, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::I fully agree with Detour. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 18:18, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::Now we just need to find an actual admin. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 19:12, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::And set the thing right. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 21:47, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::Well, he ignored Abates. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 06:52, 25 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::I was [[User:Michaelbayblows|Michaelbayblows]] but then I kinda stop using it because some mind find it offensive. So I am sorry for my inflammatory username. --[[User:HeyTFWiki|HeyTFWiki]] 05:17, 31 July 2010 (EDT)

== Official sources policy ==

Recently, some of us have been explaining to a user why video from a cellphone camera of the movie set cannot be taken as official sources. I was going to link to the official sources page when I realized that I do not know what it's called and cannot find it. Which brings me to this point: we actually took the time to write out and codify our what we consider to be official sources, right? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 16:22, 10 July 2010 (EDT)
:It's at [[Help:Official info]]. And next time, somebody should probably just place the <nowiki>{{scoop bastard}}</nowiki> template. (I was going to but couldn't find a good chance.) --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 16:26, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

== Disgusting ad ==
Sorry if I'm posting this at the wrong place, but is there anywhere we can complain about the ads on the wiki? Not to overstep my (very modest) bounds here or anything, but that ad with the GIANT PIMPLE on the back of the guy's neck is really off-putting... You've probably all seen it by now right? I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks this... Call me squeamish if you will, but it's really bothering me... --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] 14:40, 15 July 2010 (EDT)
:I'm with this 100%. I'm so glad I haven't eaten a thing all day, because I'd have lost my breakfast and my lunch by now. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 14:49, 15 July 2010 (EDT)
::I wouldn't mind so much if it would only pop up occassionally (then again, my gross tolerance is relatively high). But to be confronted with the world's largest zit every page I go on this wiki... Rather not. [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 14:55, 15 July 2010 (EDT)
:::I checked the PW sites - must have been outbid so I missed it. What the heck was it for? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 22:37, 15 July 2010 (EDT)
::::It was for a website ''about the world's largest pimple!'' It was [http://www.worldslargestzit.net this] I believe. SO not missing that ad. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 03:19, 16 July 2010 (EDT)

==Disamb template on calendar pages?==
So while fiddling around with the latest additions to our "day in history" pages, I got to thinking. Separating bullets with a blank line adds to our pages' sizes because that adds a "list start/stop" in the coding, yes? 
Well... does the <nowiki>{{disamb}}</nowiki> Template do that when we split that up with a blank line between them? The only real difference we ''see'' on the page is a "—" instead of a ":" after the bolded year. I fiddled with it a bit (without saving) and it looks good to me; I'll probably do up a Sandbox. If using this template doesn't add to the page size in the back-end that we don't see in the normal edit window... it sure would make it easier to read in said edit window, plus give the lists that litlte extra space between lines for readability on the normal pages. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 14:45, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
:Yes, putting spaces between {{tl|disamb}} also causes the problem whereby each item is in its own list. We can space out the more compact lists on the normal pages using css, but I don't think there's any way to space them out on the edit window due to the way MediaWiki parses stuff. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 17:43, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
::Well, that's goddamn irksome. It's too easy to get lost in a mass of unbroken text in the edit window. but if we can add jsut a little space between items in the final result, I'll be happy. Though this does beg the question of whether we should move over to using the disamb template anyway for calendars. Probably ought to be going over our disambiguation pages and bringing them up to code anyway (well, where dates are applicable). At the very least, I'm liking the use of em-dashes instead of colons. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 11:23, 22 July 2010 (EDT)

==TF Wiki Firefox Search Engine Add-On==
I'm surprised that one wasn't created a long time ago. It would make things incredibly convenient, and it can't be that hard to make. Anyone else like the idea? Anyone here have experience?
--[[User:Devastator|Devastator]] 15:27, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
:Please elaborate. What function exactly would such an add-on serve? --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:32, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
::None. You can add the wiki to the search engines list without messing with addons. Just go to a page on the wiki, and click on the down arrow in Firefox's search box. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 15:38, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
:::Wow, I must be blind. Thanks guys. There should be something on the home page encouraging visitors to do just that. Might help with traffic. --[[User:Devastator|Devastator]] 15:50, 21 July 2010 (EDT)

== In regards to expo 86. ==

Hey, Editor from Seibertron.com here. The front page list a request about "Information on the Transformers presentation at Vancouver's Expo '86".

I was about 11 then but I spent a lot of time at Expo during that summer. I don't remember any presentations per say, but I do remember that Hasbro (or at least Hasbro Canada) did have a presence. Namely they had 3-4 outdoor kiosks located around the fair, these were freestanding units with each one branded with one of four Hasbro properties, I clearly remember one being for Transformers and another for My Little Pony, the other(s) escape me at the moment but I am fairly certain that GIJoe wasn't there, and one could have been a generic Hasbro one. Additionally, one proper store was set up more for kids goods in the Red Zone near the Land Plaza and UFOH2O, that stocked the same items.

Due to the size of the units a good amount of available items were blister packs mainly Scamble City units. Boxed TF's were available but in smaller amounts (For some reason I want to say a good number of Wreck-gars and Gnaws were there) Sadly due to the location everything was more expensive than they could be found for at local stores. What was cool is that each of the kiosks regardless of how they were branded had a bit of everything, and they occasionally had loose pieces on hand. (I do remember playing with a Swindle at the actual TF Kiosk.

Don't know if that really helps but hopefully it did. Feel free to contact me thru Seibs if you have any questions.

:Hmm, that's interesting, though, it being your memories from about 24 years ago, I'm not sure how "article information"-worthy it is. Would you happen to have any photos taken of the event? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 17:25, 24 July 2010 (EDT)

::Not in my personal collection, but since writing the above I have been looking thru some online records of the fair to see if I can spot those kiosks. If I remember correctly where a couple were I might be able locate some. If I can find them I'll post here.

:::In our anon's defense, I offer the following taken from a story titled "Expo '86 a hit at luring firms through turnstiles" written by Jennifer Hunter, and published in the May 1st, 1986 edition of ''The Globe and Post'':
::::Expo is offering corporate exclusivity; there was already a soft-drink manufacturer, a car maker and a bank, but no toy company. Hasbro - with 1985 sales of $1.2-billion (U.S.) and profit of $99-million - is one of the largest toy manufacturers in North America and seemed a likely candidate to fork over dollars for a world's fair.

::::Mr. Hassenfeld and his brother Stephan could not resist the Expo slogan - Invite the World. A global showcase for Hasbro toys was too good an offer to turn down. So the Hassenfeld brothers delivered a cheque for $2-million (Canadian) to sponsor the Expo Centre geodesic dome. In return, Hasbro toys will be sold on the fair site.

::::"Bringing the name Hasbro before the public is the major reason we are participating," Mr. Hassenfeld said.

:::So it looks like his memories are probably accurate. --[[User:Tigerpaw28|Tigerpaw28]] 17:22, 25 July 2010 (EDT)

::::Hopefully '''''whomever asked for this information in the first place''''' will pop in and comment. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:53, 31 July 2010 (EDT)

== Titan Magazines ==

Is there a reason why none of the Titan Movie comics pages have Featured Character boxes? --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:47, 29 July 2010 (EDT)

:It is highly possible that the pages (or at least the sections) are still under working. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 21:52, 29 July 2010 (EDT)

::They seem pretty complete other than the featured character lists. Not sure what's up with that! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 22:26, 29 July 2010 (EDT)

:::*makes note to add Featured Character boxes to as many Titan Movie comics pages as possible sometime in the near future* --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 03:53, 30 July 2010 (EDT)

== No Hasbro Q and A? ==

Just wondering: Are we not participating in the Hasbro QandA's any more? We apparently didn't submit anything to the last one (along with a lot of other places weirdly, did Hasbro trim the list of who could ask or something?). Anyway, according to the Allspark the next set of questions are due Aug 9th, just wanted to see if anyone knew what was up? --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 08:30, 31 July 2010 (EDT)
: We didn't send in questions because they were due during BotCon and we messed up. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:24, 31 July 2010 (EDT)
::Well it's kinda understandable. We were hardly the only ones to miss it, given the slim list of sites with questions for July. Anyway, we'll have question solicitation for August open soon then? --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 10:45, 31 July 2010 (EDT)

== An article on racing ==

Not sure if this is exactly the right place to ask this, but...

Would an article on [[racing]] be appropriate for the wiki? Races do seem to crop up a lot in TF fiction. Off the top of my head, I can think of the [[Trans-Europe Express]] (G1), the race series where [[Road King]] was found (Masterforce), the nutty race where everyone tried to lure out [[Skid-Z (RID)|Skid-Z]] (RID), the one the Autobots had after Inferno died (Energon), [[Velocitron]]'s entire culture (Cybertron), and [[Street Demon]] (Animated).

Aye or nay? --[[User:Fortress Minimus|Fortress Minimus]] 13:23, 8 August 2010 (EDT)
: If there's enough races, perhaps a category would suffice? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:34, 8 August 2010 (EDT)
::Might I suggest [[Cybertronian_sport#Races|here]] as a starting point.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 13:37, 8 August 2010 (EDT)
:::Didn't know about that page. Yeah, that's more appropriate. --[[User:Fortress Minimus|Fortress Minimus]] 17:52, 8 August 2010 (EDT)

== Fan translated manga images. ==

I noticed quite a few images of manga that have fan translations in the word bubbles. It the wiki cool with that? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 18:55, 8 August 2010 (EDT)
:Well, I for one don't mind, because it lets me understand what's going on... it's official media, just translated by fans. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 18:58, 8 August 2010 (EDT)
::If the person uploading it can vouch for the accuracy of the translation, then I have no problem with it. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 19:04, 8 August 2010 (EDT)

== Movie 1 characters vs drones ==

Am I alone in thinking maybe we should split up pages like [[Longarm (Movie)]] and [[Swindle (Movie)]] into pages that cover the individual characters and the drones in their likeness separately? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:56, 12 August 2010 (EDT)

:I'd agree with that. I thought we had already done that for some of them. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 23:36, 12 August 2010 (EDT)

:::I agree with the splitting if possible. Since individual characters are much different from drones. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 02:20, 13 August 2010 (EDT)
::::Split 'em. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 11:33, 15 August 2010 (EDT)

== Reissues and rereleases ==

Which reissues deserve to be listed separately from their original release? For some reason, reissues of G1 toys have been listed separately on some pages but not on others. I think [[Hot Rod (G1)|Hot Rod]]'s toy page mentions aimsing to list all reissues separately. The 2010 [[Piranacon]] reissue is listed separately, but not the 2010 [[Predaking]]. Also, the toys rereleased in [[Universe (2003 toyline)|Universe]] are listed separately on the character pages even though they're ''completely'' unchanged, unlike some reissues of G1 figures. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 10:35, 21 August 2010 (EDT)
:I think part of that is simply older pages not having been updated since the decision was made to separate reissues (At least I'm pretty sure we are aiming to keep them separate). Newer reissues, like the Predaking, have probably been handled in the way the poster in question had seen such things done on other pages, leading to continuing inconsistency. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 10:58, 21 August 2010 (EDT)
::So, the current standard is to list releases separately? Is that on any help or policy page? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 11:12, 21 August 2010 (EDT)

== Wikia ==

Thank god we jumped ship when we did, because Wikia is planning on switching to a new skin.

[http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Your_First_Look_at_the_New_Wikia Preview]

--[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 16:43, 21 August 2010 (EDT)

:They must have switched already? Because every single Wikia site is completely effed up in IE7 now. --[[User:Salt-Man Z|Salt-Man Z]] 18:37, 26 August 2010 (EDT)
::No, they haven't. They're having technical problems with the server they use for css and images. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:12, 26 August 2010 (EDT)

== Explicitly Saying Characters Are Similar To Earlier Characters Of Same Name ==

On the [[Blackarachnia (Animated)]] talk page, [[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] is saying that characters that are homages to earlier characters of the same name need to have this pointed out, in something like the form "Blackarachnia (Animated) is based on the original Blackarachnia (BW), who first appeared in the Beast Wars franchise."
* Is this a good idea, as it will help people who are new to Transformers learn about the history of the brand?
* Is it unnecessary to point out that characters are similar to earlier characters of the same name, since it's very common, and would involve altering lots of pages?
* Other?
[[User:JW|JW]] 19:18, 26 August 2010 (EDT)
:Blackarachnia (Animated) has a lot of similarities and also a lot of differences with Blackarachnia (BW). I don't think I'd go so far as to say she was "based on" Blackarachnia (BW). Swindle (Animated), on the other hand, is a direct transplant of Swindle (G1). - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 19:47, 26 August 2010 (EDT)

::It may seem like a total DUH kind of thing to all the long-time TF fans who inhabit this place, but for our readers, such information seems totally relevant and useful. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 21:05, 26 August 2010 (EDT)
::There's a friggin' disambig right up top in a separated box for... all the charcaters who have the same name! Wow! And we're talking about hundreds upon hundreds of pages where we'd have to do this. It's not quite "This is a picture of Megatron" level DUH, but it's in the ballpark. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 23:53, 26 August 2010 (EDT)
:::I honestly don't understand what the disambigs have to do with this. The only information they are there to convey is "there are other characters with this name, go to this separate page for a list." They don't in any way tell you "this character who's article you're reading now was based on this other one." Especially since many characters who share the name don't actually have any other relationship to each other. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 00:15, 27 August 2010 (EDT)
::::Characters with the same name as each other within the same brand are expected to be similar (if not identical) to each other, with older ones serving as inspiration for later ones. If characters of the same name are not similar would seem to be more notable than if they are similar. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:09, 27 August 2010 (EDT)
:::::The Prowls, Scavengers, Razorclaws, and Bonecrushers tend to have very little to do with one another. Note that the main page for the Animated franchise points out that so many of the characters are clear homages to their earlier-series namesakes too. Since it has been over 10 years since the first Blackarachnia did anything, I don't see the harm in putting a one-liner at the top of BA-Animated's "Notes" section saying she's totally based on the first one. Kil is right--it wouldn't be "just so obvious" to a 14-year-old who was brought in by the movies and Animated. To a newcomer, why would it be especially obvious that Animated Ironhide and Blitzwing are based on namesakes from Cold War-era cartoons they never saw? Where's the harm in just one line? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 13:29, 27 August 2010 (EDT)
::::::I have to agree that it's not going to be obvious to someone coming in from the Movie or Animated, or even the Unicron Trilogy that many of the homages are homages. Especially Ratchet, given the drastically different color scheme Movie Ratchet (Rescue Ratchet toys notwithstanding) has compared to the others. I admit, it might seem a litte weird to make what seems to us to be such an obvious note on so many pages but if our goal is to make this Wiki accessible and informative to fans of all levels then I think it's necessary to do so.
::::::And for BA's case, I think it additionally warrants mentioning Binaltech Blackwidow as a direct inspiration. Because even though most of the design cues come originally from her first and TM2 incarnations, I don't think you get to Animated BA with the combination of attributes (and the black gloves) without going through the Binaltech version first. --[[User:Tigerpaw28|Tigerpaw28]] 15:06, 27 August 2010 (EDT)
::::::I feel it's necessary to point out that a newcomer is probably not going to get to the [[Blackarachnia (Animated)]] page without passing through [[Blackarachnia (disambiguation)]] first. So, they're gonna be made aware of the Beast Wars character. (Sure, they might get there through other means, but it's not the most likely route.)
::::::However, if the consensus is leaning toward allowing notes of the form "Foo is based on Foo of same name," how do we decide which characters need it? Just from Animated, here's all the characters who visually homage previous characters of the same name: Arcee, Big Bang Prime, Blackarachnia, Blackout, Blitzwing, Blurr, Botanica, Brawn, Bumblebee, Bumper, Cliffjumper, Cosmos, Cyclonus, Dai Atlas, Devcon, Flip Sides, Grimlock, Highbrow, Hot Shot, Hot Spot Major, Impactor Major, Ironhide, Jazz, Laserbeak, Longrack Major, Mainframe, Mixmaster, Octus, Omega Supreme, Omega SPREEM, Optimus Prime, Perceptor, Powerglide, Primal Major, Railspike Major, Ratbat, Ratchet, Reflector, Rodimus Prime, Rosanna, Seaspray, Silverbolt Major, Sky-Byte, Soundwave, Spittor, Springer, Starscream (Thundercracker, Skywarp, Ramjet, Dirge, Thrust, Sunstorm), Steeljaw, Straxus, Strika, Swindle, Swoop, Tracks, Warpath, Wheeljack, Zaur. (I left out the Witwickys and some of the Bumblebee-clones.) Do we add that note to ''all'' of them? [[User:JW|JW]] 15:49, 27 August 2010 (EDT)
In the absence of any strong support either way on this issue, I'm going to assume our current implicit policy holds: When a new character is based on an old character of the same name, explictly pointing it out is neither required nor prohibited. [[User:JW|JW]] 11:14, 22 September 2010 (EDT)

== Continuity note ==

Which articles don't need one. [[Vector Prime]] doesn't but [[Nexus Prime]] and [[Alpha Trion (Prime)]] ''do''. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 12:42, 28 August 2010 (EDT)
:...what? --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 13:32, 28 August 2010 (EDT)
::He means as multiversal singularities the One, Primus, Unicron, Prima, Fallen and Vector don't have continuity notes at the top indicating which franchise they're from. Nexus is just an interesting case, and frankly all the Alpha Trions should be merged. [[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] 13:43, 28 August 2010 (EDT)
::: So, any of 'em need removing? (Also, when did I ever admitmy gender either way?) [[User:Item42|Item42]] 14:11, 28 August 2010 (EDT)
::::How about we wait until we have more information before dealing with any of this? I swear. We know so very little about how this new continuity family works with (or doesn't) what's come before, and sweeping changes like merging Alpha Trions may end up being messily reverted. How about we hold the hell off until we learn more. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 14:21, 28 August 2010 (EDT)
::::What about [[Nexus Prime]]'s article? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 14:31, 28 August 2010 (EDT)
:::::What's '''wrong''' with it? Seriously? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:37, 28 August 2010 (EDT)
:I'm asking about the need for a continuity identifier,which, as pointed out above is absent in some [[multiversal singularity|similar]] articles. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 15:18, 28 August 2010 (EDT)
:: Those guys aren't made out of other guys. I am wondering very hard why this is an issue. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:37, 28 August 2010 (EDT)
::: I just want to know how things are supposed to be done so I could do said things properly. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 15:46, 28 August 2010 (EDT)

== Malware warning ==

I just got a malware warning when I tried to load the page, seemingly resulting from the css file included from [[User:Derik|Derik]]'s site emopanda. I'm taking the call to that script out of common.css until we can get it sorted. Most of the css is also in a local file that's already being included anyway, so hopefully nothing should break. The malware warning refers me to [http://safebrowsing.clients.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?site=http://emopanda.com/&client=googlechrome&hl=en-US this page]. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 04:15, 29 August 2010 (EDT)

== Some Wikipedia user ==

From [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:NotARealWord&oldid=381724818 my Wikipedia talk page]
{{note|Yes, I have different usernames on different wikis.}}

{{quote|I take it you don't know the TFWiki very well. It's server is run by [[David Willis|a guy]] who blocked Wikipedia Transformers editors from it He has publically stated that he started that server to have a place away from Wikipedia to make his articles. Anyone who edits in a proper Wikipedia style with limiting things to notable topics with reliable sources (which is me, by his standards) gets reverted and blocked|
User:Mathewignash|
}}

Okay, User:Mathewignash seems to be responsible for a lot of the TF fancruft on [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Transformers Wikipedia]. Also has been trying to "save" articles nominated for deletion due to lack of notability. Makes me wonder:
* Is this person somebody the admins here are familiar with?
* How do I respond to that statement against TFWiki? Considering I was pretty welcomed here when I started. Should I point out the users who regularly use ''both'' sites?
* Is there some small corner of the [[fandom]] that likes buttloads of fancruft-y TF articles, but have something against using TFWiki?
* Is this person anything to do with the people asking TFWiki to be more like [[Wikipedia]], despite how its rules are '''very''' unsuitable for a TF-specific wiki? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 14:52, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

:[[User:Primal Rage]]. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 14:53, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

:Oh yes, the community here is very familiar with Mr. Ignash. He and Walky have a long history of feuding. Walky has stated that he came here to escape Ignash in particular, not wikipedia editors in general. In the few times I've run across Ignash he seems rather jerky, virtually everyone here seems welcoming to me. Don't know about point three. Not sure if Ignash has connections to any of the various people who don't like the wiki's tone, but your point about wikipedia being a bad model for a TF specific site is a good one. While we do strive for proper citations here, "notability" is not a valid criterion for this site. Few TF characters/concepts are truly notable in a real world sense. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 14:56, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

::Thank you, I try to treat wikis differently since they have different purposes. What about the questions in bullet-point number two? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 15:01, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

:::Your suggestion of mentioning people on both sites is a good idea, I edit on wikipedia under the same alias but much less frequently and even less substantially. Don't know about anyone else. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:07, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

::::I do. Rarely and with a different name, but I do. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 15:13, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

:::Ignash is not worth responding to. Let him play in his turd-filled sandbox. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 15:21, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

::::Correction. Nobody who thinks that Wikipedia is better than TFWiki is worth responding to. I have learned this the hard way. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:31, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

:::::What about that bit about a small corner of the fandom? User:Dream Focus seems to also fit that description. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 15:43, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

::::::Yes, there is a small corner of the fandom that likes the Wikipedia-style TF articles. However, I would like to know is where the hell you are getting this stuff about Dream Focus fitting that description. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:47, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

:::::::To Item42, read the archives on Matthewignash's user talk page at wikipedia. The man can't even follow the rules that he exhorts as superior to ours. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:49, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

::::::::Please, do point the above out to him. I'd do it myself but they blocked my IP because I decided that Wikipedia was a piece of crap and went on a massive, 40-account vandalism rampage. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 16:04, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

::::::From what I can tell, Dream Focus is just against deletion of Wikipedia articles under non-notability, and may not be active in Transformers fandom. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:20, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

:The issue, simply, is not with "other Wikipedia users" - it is with Ignash himself. There is a ''reason'' the Transformers articles on Wikipedia are such a jumbled mess of copy-pasted partially-overly-detailed summaries, gross generalizations and list after list of Optimus Prime's appearances in ''Family Guy'' and ''Robot Chicken'' that lack any kind of consistency between each other and he is mainly it. Nearly everyone who ever tried to edit constructively there came here because he never compromises on his stupid, stupid way of organizing an article, and we neither want nor require his presence here. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 16:35, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

::It reminds me that I moved to Wikia (long before the Exodus) as soon as I found the TFwiki, and soon after that, I left Wikipedia(TF-related) as soon as I found TFwiki has more strict rules than Wikipedia does in some way (for example, we won't see any leak or unofficial information in TFwiki). (And yes, I can't stand some users on Wikipedia.) Plus, I feel Wikipedia is more harsh on fictional-related articles sometimes. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 03:41, 31 August 2010 (EDT)

:::Once again, correction. It doesn't really matter what the subject is, it just matters if someone has an axe to grind and if there's an admin who is willing to completely ignore common sense so that the people holding the axes can come out on top. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:19, 31 August 2010 (EDT)

::::Well, now it looks like Ignash can't always [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Transformers/Proposed_centralized_transformers_discussion come out on top]. Seems mostly him and Dream Focus trying to stop the article deletions. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 12:15, 31 August 2010 (EDT)

I think most of us at some point or other already came to the conclusion that Wikipedia was never going to have in-depth Transformers coverage. I'm pretty at-peace with that, because it was never realistic to think that they'd ever do it in the granularity that a dedicated wiki like this place can afford to do. Ignash came over here at one point, and I more or less went to bat for him, which I realize in retrospect was a mistake. The guy's very set in his ways, and he's poison to collaborative projects.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 11:37, 2 September 2010 (EDT)

:A general purpose encyclopedia (Wikipedia) cannot and should not have the same depth of coverage as dedicated references (tfwiki). Just as you wouldn't expect articles on every minor Shakespearean character on Wikipedia, you shouldn't expect every minor TF to have an article there. As far as going to bat for Ignash, I actually agreed with you standing up for him. Everyone deserves a chance to contribute. The problem was that he didn't want to contribute and collaborate and work within the guidelines here, because of that he is banned. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:42, 2 September 2010 (EDT)

::[[Wikipedia]] has just '''way''' too much TF fancruft. The big-time deletion "campaign" going on right now should be able to fix ''some'' of that. Hopefully. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 10:12, 3 September 2010 (EDT)

:::Dream Focus [http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/Dream_Focus is on Wikia]. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 09:19, 6 September 2010 (EDT)

===Wikipedia's TF Project===
[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:WikiProject Transformers|Wikipedia:WikiProject Transformers]] 666 articles. Heh [[User:Item42|Item42]] 09:26, 6 September 2010 (EDT)

== Dimension-hopping ==

Should that get an article? The "Fiction" sections on [[continuity]] and [[multiverse]] seem mainly about that. Comparing those sections, it seems they're somewhat... redundant. Maybe a separate article about dimension-hopping would be better. Maybe the article should also cover characters moving within the same [[continuity family]]. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 10:34, 3 September 2010 (EDT)
:The "multiverse" really only appears in fiction when dimension-hopping is involved, so that's why the fiction section is all about dimension hopping. "Continuity" probably doesn't need a fiction section since it is pretty much a wiki thing explaining how the wiki is organized. You are right that we should talk about dimension-hopping in the same continuity. There is a mini-multiverse in the G1 cartoon episode [[Madman's Paradise]] that should be commented on. How does [[Menonia]] relate to the [[multiverse]]? That's a good question. I think that can be explored on the "multiverse" page though. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 10:53, 3 September 2010 (EDT)
::Would it be okay if I (or anybody else) removes the "fiction" section of "[[continuity]]" and puts up that information in "[[multiverse]]"? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 14:52, 4 September 2010 (EDT)

== User admonition templates ==

Is there a list of the various templates that can be placed on a user page to give them advice (editing tips, spelling, no scoops, no fanon, etc)? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 11:27, 3 September 2010 (EDT)
:[[:Category:User notice templates]]. There are some in there that rarely get used! --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 11:32, 3 September 2010 (EDT)
::Thanks, NCZ. I could not remember the "correct english" one and couldn't find a page that had one. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 11:58, 3 September 2010 (EDT)

== Categories ==

Can anyone explain to me why categories that apply to specific toys are put on the general article for the character that toy represents and not on the image of the particular toy? Why not put the category tags on the picture's own page? For example, [[Starscream (Movie)]] is not actually a Kmart exclusive, the Nebular Starscream toy is. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 09:33, 4 September 2010 (EDT)

== Links that overexplain jokes ==

I got reverted on [[Soundwave (ROTF)]] because apparently, adding links to explain captions ruins them. (I didn't remove or change the joke, just added the links. )Should that be on the official caption policy? . Although, I'm rather concerned that more casual readers might not understand references (like "[[JaAm|hump that tank]]" for example), and I don't intend to confuse people. So really, is it so bad to explain jokes (through wikilinks) for the sake of people with little TF knowledge? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 20:08, 4 September 2010 (EDT)
:Well, y'know what they say - "If you have to ''explain'' a joke, there ''is'' no joke." Personally, I've always loathed joke-explaining word-linking, especially when it's to something off-site. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 20:30, 4 September 2010 (EDT)
::Personally, I think that adding those links introduce casual wiki-readers to more TF stuff, and that content should be written with more clueless readers in mind. Although, if it's just ''that bad'', maybe it should be mentioned on the policy page. It's easier to avoid doing things when you know you should. Also, what about on-site linking, like potholing "hump that tank" to [[jaAm]]? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 20:50, 4 September 2010 (EDT)
Anyway, can I (or anyone else) do at least a ''little bit'' of on-site caption linking?[[User:Item42|Item42]] 18:19, 13 September 2010 (EDT)
:No. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 19:43, 13 September 2010 (EDT)
::Then can someone please put that up on [[Transformers Wiki:Caption]] so that people can be sure that's what the community as a whole wants, and not just the two people who responded here? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 14:55, 14 September 2010 (EDT)

== Next Hasbro Q&A Questions due Mon! ==

According to the Allspark the next round of Hasbro Q&A questions are due 1 week from today (Sept 13). I know we havn't even recieved the last set of answers back yet. But shouldn't we set up a page to take question submissions for next Mon. --[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 14:33, 6 September 2010 (EDT)

:Hey, how come we haven't gotten answers from the [[Hasbro Q&A/August 2010: Question submission|most recent one]] yet? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 17:20, 6 September 2010 (EDT)

::Because Hasbro's a busy place and they haven't had a chance to get them back to us yet. They're usually a week or two behind their estimated return date, nothing new there. This IS the first time I can recall where the next questions might be due before the last set of answers appears though. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 07:31, 7 September 2010 (EDT)

== RFC Wiki Spotlight ==

What-ho. If any wiki contributors happen to be listeners of [http://www.tfradio.net Radio Free Cybertron], you may have noticed that I've started doing a small spot on the show called the "Wiki Spotlight", highlighting an interesting article each week and drawing attention to it. Thus far I've just done our featured articles of the last two months, but I figured I'd open up the floor to any and all random suggestions as to what articles - big or small, well-known or obscure - deserve a mention. Speak up! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 08:07, 11 September 2010 (EDT)
:[[Angry Archer]] and [[Thor]]. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:48, 11 September 2010 (EDT)
::[[Sky-Byte (RID)]]! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:31, 11 September 2010 (EDT)
:::[[Rorza, the Rocket-cycle Racer from Rigel III]]! -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 19:56, 11 September 2010 (EDT)
::::[[Shockwave (G1)]] looks pretty good to me. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 15:38, 14 September 2010 (EDT)
:::::[[Wheelie (G1)]], [[Scale]] and [[B.O.T. (episode)]] might be fun to feature. Can I also suggest that a link to the article mentioned be placed on the tfradio.net post accompanying the podcast, because it'll be easier for the listeners. :) --[[User:Abates|abates]] 22:48, 14 September 2010 (EDT)

A while back I tried to edit the [[fandom]] page to mention the Podcasts around at the time (TFWIRE, WTF@TFW and the joke that was the Tformers podcast at that time. But TPTB wiped the whole lot! That was a pretty big "Screw you!" to the podcasts. [[User:Drmick|Drmick]] 15:21, 16 September 2010 (EDT)

== Toy patents ==

User: Sarujo at Wikipedia posted a list of TF related patents. I have put them in [[User: Khajidha/sandbox|my sandbox]]. I've found and corrected a few errors/misidentifications already. Is this material useful or was it all already known? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 08:30, 13 September 2010 (EDT)
:Interesting stuff. Do you mind if I go through the unknowns and put names on the ones I can identify? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 08:35, 13 September 2010 (EDT)
::Feel free, that's why I posted the link. I won't have time today to give it the thorough going over it deserves. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 08:39, 13 September 2010 (EDT)
:::Thanks. And that, as they say, is that. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 09:22, 13 September 2010 (EDT)
::::They still need to be resorted. Warpath wasn't a Microman mold and it would probably be useful to have the Scramble City molds separated. Beyond that, I don't know. I don't want to get it so sorted that it becomes LESS useful. If nothing else, I figured the notes about inventors/designers might be data otherwise hard to come by. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 09:32, 13 September 2010 (EDT)
:::::Anyone willing to go trolling through patent listings? We seem to be missing those for several members of various combiner teams. Perhaps they can be found by cross referencing those we do have? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 10:54, 13 September 2010 (EDT)
::::::The designer data ALONE makes these worthwhile. That's awesome information. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 11:28, 13 September 2010 (EDT)
:::::::I've conveyed our thanks to Sarujo over at Wikipedia. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:18, 13 September 2010 (EDT)

== Photos of toys ==
I found [[Wikipedia:Template:Non-free 3D art|this]] bit about copyright law.
*Does that mean ''every'' photo of an official TF figure needs a note like "character and toy design under copyright by [[HasTak]]"?
*Should this site also make a template like that?
*Would this be a good reason/excuse to copy photos from other fansites since ''your own photos'' (and anyone else's) would still have to go under fair use?
-[[User:Item42|Item42]] 15:47, 14 September 2010 (EDT)
: I think that specifically applies to non-US countries, particularly IIRC Germany (Nevermore, confirm/deny?). As the Wiki is hosted in the US it isn't really relevant... yet? [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 06:56, 15 September 2010 (EDT)
::Actually, the Wikipedia template in that link says:
{{quote|This is a two-dimensional representation of a copyrighted sculpture, statue or any other three-dimensional work of art. As such it is a derivative work of art, and per [http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#106 US Copyright Act of 1976, § 106(2)] whoever holds copyright of the original has the exclusive right to authorize derivative works. 

Per [http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107 § 107] it is believed that reproduction for criticism, comment, teaching and scholarship constitutes fair use and does not infringe copyright.}}
So it ''is'' US-relevant. Although, looking at the [[Wikipedia:Template talk:Non-free 3D art#totallydisputed|talk page]], it seems that said law(s) might not be something to take seriously. So, no stealing toy photos? If not, can I try to get the clearly stolen ones (like one section of [[:Image:20thAnniversary OptimusPrimesm.jpg|this]]) replaced? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 04:44, 19 September 2010 (EDT)
:IIRC the law in question came up during (of all things) Batman Forever, when a copyrighted piece of industrial statue donated to a city as used as a shooting location in the film, got integrated into the sets, showed up on t-shirts and promotional cups, etc... the studio ended up paying millions in damages.
:Generally when I (rarely) take toy photos, I note that the '''photo''' is released to the public domain but ''Character likeness is {{c}} Hasbro 20XX'', making it clear that the ''photo'' is free, but its subject may not be. (Making a sculpture based on the photo would, obviously, present copyright issues.) Character likeness, IMO, seems like a better phrase to use than design since with multiple toys over decades, that's really what's being protected here-- not the transformation schema of mold D-22B.
:Part of what it means is that virtually '''no''' images on the wiki are eligible for "Copyleft," the status of absolute-public-domain with no entailment or restrictions. (This is not unique. A photo of your own family with a Coke ad in the background isn't eligible for Copyleft either.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 09:04, 19 September 2010 (EDT)
::Derik, how do you release something in public domain if you can't release it under copyleft? Also, does this mean that it's okay to steal toy photos? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 04:04, 21 September 2010 (EDT)

== Galvatron ==
So in [http://www.asmzine.com/geekly-rewind/2010/09/14/hasbro-transformers-qa-august-2010-answers/ ASM's Q&A response], Hasbro pretty much officially says to consider Galvatron a separate character from Megatron for all practical purposes. How do we tackle this? [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 06:56, 15 September 2010 (EDT)
:I interpret it as saying that in inducting Megatron, Galvatron is not being inducted by connection, since [[Megatron (Animated)|not all Megatrons have become Galvatrons]], and some interpretations of Galvatron (like IDW) are separate from Megatron. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 07:00, 15 September 2010 (EDT)
::Yeah, I don't think this really changes anything about the way we've already got Galvy covered. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 07:14, 15 September 2010 (EDT)

== Excessive Trivia Sections ==

Ok, a few days ago I attempted to clean up some trivia sections. I realize in hindsight I was tired and being a wanker and was removing valuable information, and I apologize for that. However, I think some of our trivia could definitely stand to be integrated into the articles themselves, especially notes like "This character's Universe toy was..." or "in the Energon comic, so-and so was completely different". I would like to integrate these but I was hoping to get an opinion on this, since I went about it wrong once already. Thoughts? -- [[User:Rideonshootingstarxx|Rideonshootingstarxx]] 12:44, 22 September 2010 (EDT)
:Agreed. The Notes sections (shouldn't be Trivia anymore) are for information that doesn't fit elsewhere. If there is a logical place to put it, move the information there. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:58, 22 September 2010 (EDT)

== Editing Drift's related materials ==
Actually, this would cover whatever anyone of us have a '''large''' dislike of, but yeah. This is a wiki, where we're supposed to be informative and be able to present the info in a fun way. I'm not entirely sure of how objective we can be (humor aside), but the whole kerfluffle on Drift's mini and cameos showing in his mini is making me worried on the attitudes of certain editors that could easily descend into a editing/name-calling/accusation war. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 21:39, 23 September 2010 (EDT)
:My position is the Wiki doesn't have to be ''objective'', so long as it isn't ''unreasonable''. There are plenty of flaws in Drift and Shane McCarthy's work to poke fun of -- there's no reason to create ones that aren't true.
:I was re-reading Drift #1 and happened to notice he DID suffer damage from those laser blasts while fleeing. I remembered that note on the Wiki joking that he was "laser-proof", so I removed it. I also posted on the Talk page explaining why. Detour restored the Note several times anyway, even though it was false as written. He eventually tried to re-write it, adding something about Deadlock surviving blasts that blew off Jetstorm's head earlier. Nowhere in the comic did Jetstorm's head get blown off. Drench's did, notCarnivac's did, but Jetstorm was fine. It just shows that Detour doesn't care about being accurate so long as he's not giving an inch on anything Anti-McCarthy on the Wiki.
:So really -- can't we be ''better'' than that? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] 22:05, 23 September 2010 (EDT)
::Well, I'm pretty sure I've said this before, but I really think Detour shouldn't be allowed to edit anything connected to McCarthy. And I'm pretty much branded an irrational anti-McCarthy troll on the IDW boards, so I think this is saying something. I'm first in line to complain when ''he deserves it'', this sort of stuff is just petty and weakens the valid criticism by association. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 22:25, 23 September 2010 (EDT)
::So because I mixed up Drench and Jetstorm's name, I'm now "making stuff up"? Now who's being irrational? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 00:39, 24 September 2010 (EDT)
:::Please try to be accurate when editing articles. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 02:57, 24 September 2010 (EDT)
::::Yeah, I don't think you really comprehend this discussion and the situation leading up to it, Item42. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 04:17, 24 September 2010 (EDT)
:::::Um, people generally hate [[Drift (G1)|Drift]], this wiki's editors want to have reliable articles, and Detour got stuff mixed up, which people blame on his anti-Drift-ism. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 05:53, 24 September 2010 (EDT)

== External Links ==

Similar to the whole business of changing all the "Trivia" sections into "Notes" sections, this is just a heads up for anyone who wants to chip in for a mundane task: if you ever see a link to TFU.info (or a similar toy site) in the External Links section of a character's page, relocating it to that character's Toys section would be super-awesome. (And if the External Links section subsequently becomes empty, get rid of it.) I wouldn't really describe this as a task with much urgency behind it, but it will make characters' pages look consistent, and consistency looks nice. It's really a minor edit that's easy and quick to do, and I'd appreciate some help in this fiasco. An example of how this is supposed to look like can be found at [[Optimus Primal/toys|Optimus Primal's toy section]]. So keep an eye out while you're bored and clicking that "Random Page" button. :) --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] 12:37, 26 September 2010 (EDT)
:I've been trying to do these whenever I come across one. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:44, 26 September 2010 (EDT)
==Who hosts your wiki now==
Wikia is making more unpopular changes, [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Your_First_Look_at_the_New_Wikia] with a new skin which is even more unpopulat.

In this angry discussion, your site was mentioned as one site which said "f--- you wikia" and left, which I respect so much, and would like to emulate.

I am wondering who is hosting your wikia, and how much does it cost per year? If you could do it again, how would you do it differently? Who could I maybe ask these questions too?

Thank you. [[User:Adamtheclown|Adamtheclown]] 17:12, 28 September 2010 (EDT)

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2010-09-28T21:12:52Z

Adamtheclown: /* Who hosts your wiki now */

__NEWSECTIONLINK__

This is the place for discussion of topics that affect the entire wiki. Some topics that would ordinarily be here have merited their own pages:

{{chapters|title=Specific Discussion Subjects|align=left|content=
<div class="list-header">'''Moving From Wikia:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving|Arriving]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving|Leaving]]
* [[Transformers Wiki:Community Portal/Complaints|Complaints]]
 <div class="list-header">'''New Ad Policy:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki:Ads|Ads]]
 <div class="list-header">'''Bookworm Database-Crash:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central|Damage Control Central]]
* [[Project:Bookworm Crash]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving2|Leaving Take 2]]
 <div class="list-header">'''Server Move:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving2|Arriving Take 2]]
 <div class="list-header">'''Relicensing:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Relicensing|Relicensing]]
 <div class="list-header">'''Dealing With Vandalism:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Vandalism|Vandalism]]
 <div class="list-header">'''GoBots Sister Wiki:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/GoBots|Discussion on the place of GoBots in this wiki]]
}} 

{{:{{FULLPAGENAMEE}}/Archive}}


== TFsource ad buy ==

TFsource contacted me, having seen our perennial Reprolabels ad up above and wanting in on a piece of the action, wanting to permanently buy one of our other ad spots. The question I have is, would/should we restrict them from ads depicting "third-party" toys and bootlegs? Perhaps this is the ghost of BotCon hovering over me, since their Wall Of Trademark And Copyright Theft Directly Facing the Hasbro Booth is prominent in my mind, and I know a few of the editors here expressed some displeasure with that. Is that a big deal for anyone, does anyone care in this context, or should I be all "ABSOLUTELY!" and then we make a deal and rake in the dough? Can we even judge, since we have, you know, all of this scanned material and whatnot? These are the questions I present. Tell me how much they matter. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:24, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

:All else being equal I'd prefer to avoid it, unless we're desperate for cash. We know some Hasbro staff look at this wiki and they've been clear in how much that stuff bugs them. Also, the more our pageviews include imagery of Fake Magnus Armor and Fake Springer and Fake Rod et al., the more we're going to have to deal with new arrivals who feel that's all kosher for inclusion in the main articles. If it's possible to get a TFSource ad that will never display a bootleg, then I'd have no problem with it. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 14:36, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

::Seems like a reasonable restriction for us to make to me. My take on our scans is that one, we generally err on the side of fair use in not uploading entire pages and making sure we credit the hell out of things, and two, they're not a 100% vital part of the wiki anyway--if Hasbro told us to take every scan down tomorrow we could comply and still have a perfectly usable (just a less visually exciting) wiki. 
::That's kind of different from openly advertising toys that totally violate Hasbro's copyright, though. Even aside from the legal tangles (which is no small aside, certainly), while I know we are in that murky grey area in some things, we ''have'' always tried to play as fair as we can with Hasbro in how we operate. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:40, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

:::I agree, no knockoffs in our ads if we can help it.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 14:44, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

::::Ditto on no knockoffs in the ads. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 14:59, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::ALL ABOARD THE DITTO ASTROTRAIN --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:07, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::N-O on the K-Os. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:12, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

::Yeah, if TFSource can give us ad without IP infringing product, I say let em in. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 15:17, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

:::Yikes, I'm looking at the side banner right now and it's full of IP infringing products. The one I see has Knight Morpher Commander, Crossfire Munition and Explorer and Warbot Defender. The only ACTUAL Transformers product in there is Masterpiece Ghost Starscream. I think it would be bad form to keep ads like that on the site. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 18:19, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

::::Ads without IP infringing material would be fine with me. [[User:MrBlud|MrBlud]] 18:56, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::Ugh. When they were allowed to buy the ad space, did they promise no knock-offs? - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 23:12, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::Big NO on knockoffs, including third-party. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 01:51, 8 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::I am cool with them buying adspace IF they only advertise official Transformers products. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 06:14, 8 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::I say YES to having the Third party stuff on here. As you can see by the continuity discussion above Hasbro don't really give a damn about Transformers fiction the way we do. The third party stuff proves that those guys have passion that many in Hasbro do not. And "knock-offs" is a bit harsh, no? So in summary, screw Hasbro and yeah Fansproject! And let's be honest if the choice as to who controls Transformers came down to a two-way battle between Hasbro and TFWiki, who would you pick? [[User:Drmick|Drmick]] 10:44, 8 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::Drmick, we're talking '''''IP infringement''''' here and we occasionally have actual Hasbro folks peek in here time to time. I think I speak for the others in that none of us wants them knocking on the wiki's doors with some form of a C&D or something that'll restrict us (save certain circumstances). We've probably toed a couple lines somewhere more than several times, and I for one, do NOT want our relationship with Hasbro to be messed up. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 12:22, 8 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::What LG said. Also, we're not talking about putting Fansproject's knockoffs on the wiki itself... just adspace for sites dedicated to selling such knockoffs. And I'm giving that idea a big fat ''hell no''. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:49, 8 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::No doubt the only reason the ad is still up is because Walky's on the road. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 02:38, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::::What ad are you guys seeing? All I see is a Project Wonderful sidebar ad (current bidder is Unreal Books) and reprolabels permanent banner up top. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 02:55, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::::I'm seeing a TFSource ad ABSOLUTELY FULL of pics of third-party stuff. And MP Ghost Starscream. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 02:57, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::::::Yeah, for some reason I'm not seeing any of that. I just see two Project Wonderful ads on the left hand side "Advertisement" sidebar, so TF Source's ad must be triggered by IP address or something. Also, if the ad is already up after only one day (or less) of community consultation, and Walky's not around to deal with administration problems relating to it (especially as there is a fear of how TF Source's wares would look to Hasbro), then that's poor planning on his part, (no offense intended, boss.) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:02, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::::::Weird, it's gone for me, now. Where it was I have a Project Wonderful ad displaying Akemi's Anime World. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 03:11, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::::::::Still there for me. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 03:36, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::::::::Just tried it on another browser that I never use (in case there's some cache thing on the main browser - no change, I don't see the TF Source banner. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:18, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::::::::::Project Wonderful ads are localized, guys. TFSource probably just shelled out the dough for their ad in the States only. I've never seen it up, myself. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 04:34, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::::::::::I'm in ''Poland'', Detour. That's on an entirely different ''continent'' than the US. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 04:37, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::::::::::::I'm in Canada, and I have seen it. I just don't see it anymore. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 04:44, 9 July 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::::Wait, you're Polish? I had no idea. You talk gooder English than me. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 04:39, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::::::::::::: The advert's currently only displaying in Europe. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 05:26, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::::::::::::: No wonder, all I see are just two Project Wonderful random ads. And I'm in Taiwan. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 05:52, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

TFsource said they were willing to give us a banner that has no third-party stuff on it! Hooray! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 08:01, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

:Oh yeh, that sounds nice to me. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 08:09, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

::And it should be noted that during the time we were displaying the "offending" ad, we had not yet agreed to have an adspace bought out by TFSource. They'd just bought the ad the normal way, and as they'd been a prior bidder, they were pre-approved.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 11:13, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

:::Excellent - my apologies, Walky. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:00, 10 July 2010 (EDT)
That sidebar ad with the knock-off Swindle, Springer, and HoS Optimus has started showing up for me again, in Canada if that's relevant. It had stopped showing up less than a day after I first saw it, but now it's there again. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 23:46, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

:Another Canadian here. Same situation as Cattleprod. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 23:58, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

::Me too, same ad as before, knockoffs and all. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 03:12, 12 July 2010 (EDT)
:::Yep, knock-off ad here too. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 12:44, 12 July 2010 (EDT)

::::On the Project Wonderful site, both the Canadian and EU traffic are seeing the version of the banner with the Munitioner upgrade sets, Knight Morpher Commander and Warbot Defender. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:24, 12 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::Now I see THE ad, too. (Taiwan, Asia) --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 22:40, 15 July 2010 (EDT)

Welp, Californian and now I'm seeing the Munitioner set, alongside Knight Morpher and Warbot Defender with MP Ghost Starscream. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 02:26, 14 July 2010 (EDT)
:I'm in Ohio and getting Naruto vol. 48 as the ad. --[[User:Tigerpaw28|Tigerpaw28]] 02:45, 14 July 2010 (EDT)

::TFSource's knockoffs ad is back for Canadian and European visitors. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 08:59, 15 July 2010 (EDT)

:::Seeing all sorts of KOs advertised now. Can we void their contract and keep their money as a fine for breaking their agreement with us? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:02, 15 July 2010 (EDT)PS- since when is NC in Europe/Canada?

:::Welp, [http://img535.imageshack.us/i/tfsourcead01.jpg/ this] [http://img693.imageshack.us/i/tfsourcead02.jpg/ I certainly] [http://img14.imageshack.us/i/tfsourcead03.jpg/ agree]. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 15:05, 15 July 2010 (EDT)

::::Same here, and I'm American. I'm only sort of mentioning this because they let someone steal my credit card. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 22:50, 17 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::As mentioned, we haven't actually committed to any deal yet with them, and any ads you see are them going through the standard Project Wonderful process. They've bought ads with us before, and thus as long as they have the high bid, they're pre-approved. They're going to have the proposed first-party-products-only ad to submit to Walky sometime next week.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 23:11, 17 July 2010 (EDT)

====Guys====
There is no "contract" to "void." Their permanent ad buy hasn't STARTED. They've been advertising with those particular ads for months. You've just finally noticed them because I brought them up. We haven't even discussed what the ad space will cost them since I've been busy and they said they won't have a new ad for us for about a week anyway. So, like, chill out. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:31, 15 July 2010 (EDT)

:For months? Huh... --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 17:21, 15 July 2010 (EDT)

====And it's done====
TFsource owns our skyscraper until whenever they don't want to anymore. It's all official stuff, so everyone happy? (Yay!) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:06, 30 July 2010 (EDT)
:Can we please somehow code it to say "This ad comes with a 100% chance of not causing us headaches" beneath the ad? (Nah, not really.)
:Also, I'm happy. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 16:29, 30 July 2010 (EDT)

:Looks awesome! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:29, 30 July 2010 (EDT)
:That looks great! Nice and slick-looking. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:55, 31 July 2010 (EDT)

== Simon Furman's IDW pitch ==

So here's a thing. The following text is Simon Furman's original pitch for Transformers comics when IDW took up the license, printed in the back of the "Best of Simon Furman" hardback collection. I skimmed this a few years back when the book was released and it passed under my nose at work, but since then, we've never had any of the info on the wiki, and I've never seen any discussion of it on any forums - presumably because none of us actually BOUGHT the dang thing, since we own all these stories in multiple formats already. I borrowed the book and transcribed the pitch so that anyone interested can read it, and we can maybe actually do something with the info. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 11:01, 8 July 2010 (EDT)
:Hmm. I've never seen this before. It's pretty interesting that Furman was itching to do Cybertron , which is weird, because by the time IDW was announced as the new comic licensee, Cybertron had started. Would take awhile to get a Cybertron comic up and running, I would think. By the time it came out, it might be already too late. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 02:58, 9 July 2010 (EDT)
::It wouldn't surprise me if that's why it was modified so much. But, um, should we be duplicating this sort of material here? I mean, sure, The Best of Simon Furman wasn't the most popular book, but isn't this just copyright infringement? --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 03:18, 9 July 2010 (EDT)
:::Yeah, that was on my mind as I was transcribing it. I don't really intend to permanently house this anywhere - I just wanted to get it up so people could get a look, take in the info, maybe do something wiki-related with it, then I'd scrub it. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 11:18, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

TRANSFORMERS… A NEW DIRECTION

A Proposal For IDW

--Simon Furman--

In the (Armada/Energon) Cybertron timeline…

…UNICRON IS DESTROYED, utterly wiped out of existence by a seismic shock warhead detonated deep within its superstructure (events which would be visited retroactively in any subsequent ‘Energon’ conclusion issues).

But as one threat to Cybertron ends, another has only just begun. A rift in time and space – a massive ‘chronal’ black hole formed by the annihilation of Unicron – is threatening to suck Cybertron in, tear it apart in an internal maelstrom of deconstructed space and time. Only by anchoring the planet, via a spacebridge, to Earth’s energon core can Cybertron maintain its tenuous position, but it’s at best a quick fix. To seal the rift, they need the power of PRIMUS, the progenitor of the entire TRANSFORMERS race. But while a fragment of the dormant Primus lifeforce exists within Cybertron, the rest is lost, scattered throughout the universe, buried deep within strange, alien worlds.

Roused (from eons of chronal stasis in a dimension outside of normal space and time) by the impending cataclysm, the immortal sentinel known as Vector Prime spearheads the search for the Primus lifeforce, guiding Optimus Prime and his Autobots on a quest that will take them to aliens worlds in the farthest corners of the galaxy and beyond. But where Prime and the Autobots go… Megatron and the Decepticons are never far behind.

Clad in the armor of Unicron, fuelled by a fragment of his Spark, Megatron has become a true agent of chaos. He’s prepared to sacrifice Cybertron, Earth and any other world in order to contain and absorb the lifeforce of Primus himself, his ultimate aim to transform himself… into a living god!

And the ‘Cybertron’ timeline is not the only one to feel the effects of the destruction of Unicron. In fact… it’s one of the lucky ones.

<<In all the disparate timelines, all the myriad dimensions, there is but one Unicron. Though physical presence is limited to a single reality at any given time, it exists simultaneously in countless dimensions, shadows of its vast, ancient consciousness inextricably interwoven into the complex geometry of time and space. Its destruction in the Cybertron timeline creates ripples, which become shockwaves, which gather force, become a tidal wave of destruction. In some realities, the effect of the ‘chaos wave’ is total, instantaneous, entire timelines… wiped out. In others, the initial effect is less pronounced, a dramatic event heralding a slow descent into space/time anarchy.>>

In the G1 timeline…

…CYBERTRON IS DESTROYED! The resident Autobots and Decepticons barely have time to evacuate the planet, to eject the core of the planet and it’s precious Vector Sigma cargo (an eventuality made feasible way back when [in The War Within v3]) before the planet is torn apart, smashed into component molecules by the roiling chaos wave. Many Cybertronians don’t make it at all, and are simply wiped out. In a shockingly short time, Cybertron is gone. Forever.

Shocked, stunned, bereft of their homeworld, the remaining populous finds itself spread far and wide throughout the galaxy, seeking (in the Autobots’ case) safe harbor or (in the Decepticons’ case) new worlds to conquer… and colonise. Megatron’s Decepticons have perfecting ‘mechaforming’ technology, invasive, self-replicating machinery designed to restructure the entire geological substructure of a planet, in effect turn it into a new Cybertron. And since the Decepticons are indifferent to the presence or fate of any indigenous civilizations on the planet(s) of choice, it’s down to the Autobots to stop them… at any cost.

Earth, always a pivotal world in the G1 timeline, becomes even more of a focal battleground. Its natural resources are a potent brew that – with the right exploitation and manipulation – can be turned into energon, the lifeblood of the Transformer race. In Decepticon hands the whole world would be turned into a vast refinery, bled dry to fuel the creation of the ‘new’ Cybertron.

And Optimus Prime has an even more pressing concern. Contacted by Vector Prime (who can move within all remaining TF timelines), he is warned that the omniversal geometry is critically out of alignment. The removal of – for want of a better word – ‘evil’ has disturbed an age-old natural balance. Though it goes against every Autobot credo, they must somehow resurrect the dark force known, among other things, as Unicron! The key is the so-called ‘Decepticon Matrix’, a quasi-mythical power source spread throughout the galaxy. Said to be fragments of Unicron itself, released in some apocalyptic confrontation with Primus before the dawn of time, its retrieval and coalescence could restore the balance and dissipate the chaos wave.

Reluctantly, with grave reservations (and considerable dissent in the Autobot ranks) Prime forges an uneasy alliance with two of Unicron’s heralds, Cylonus and Scourge, both of whom are dedicated to the rebirth of their master (for different reasons). But, unknown to Prime, they have a secondary agenda, a plan to use a fragment of the Decepticon Matrix to destroy Megatron… and recreate him as the unstoppable force known as Galvatron!

<<And so, in one timeline, the Autobots seek to make Primus whole once more, while in another, they seek to resurrect the spirit of Unicron, leading ultimately to the new, universe-shaking confrontation between the two ancient forces… one that will (briefly) unite all remaining TRANSFORMERS timelines and continuities in an epic battle for survival.>>

CYBERTRON #0 (AND ONGOING)/G1 #0 (AND ONGOING)

Amidst the larger framework of the ‘chaos wave’ saga, the ongoing thrust of Cybertron is a focused series of one or two-part (largely self-contained, featuring different character assortments) adventures set on Cybertron, Earth and the key planets (Speed, Beast and Giant) that support its core quest… the search for the lifeforce of Primus. At every turn, the Autobots are confounded and frustrated by the Decepticons, but in the process forge new alliances and friendships, both on Earth and beyond. It’s a race against time… with the fate of Cybertron (and more) hanging in the balance.

The G1 title expands the scope and reach of the line, exploring wider character/conflict story arcs (while pulling in much more fan-friendly past and future continuity) and dramatically shaking the whole TRANSFORMERS mythos to its core, streamlining and redefining the sometimes confusing mass of ‘alternate’ timelines. But as with Cybertron, the focus will shift to different groups of Autobots/Decepticons on different worlds, faced with differing agendas and challenges.

The issue #0s will be mirror-images of each other, both told from the perspective of Vector Prime as he awakens to an omniverse in chaos, threatened on all fronts. His narrative will serve to encapsulate what has gone before while his actions introduce the primary cast and lay the groundwork for what is to come.

===Noticed something===

{{quote|both told from the perspective of Vector Prime as he awakens to an '''omniverse''' in chaos}}

Some use of the word [[omniverse]]. Wow. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 10:16, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

===Added it in somewheres===
I've added references to that thing at [[IDW Generation 1 continuity]] and [[Cybertron (franchise)]]. Did I do it right? --[[User:Fortress Minimus|Fortress Minimus]] 17:21, 19 July 2010 (EDT)

== Usernames ==

Our latest user [[User:Michaelbayblows|Michaelbayblows]] has what I consider to be a somewhat inflammatory username considering the how many arguments ensue regarding the live-action movies. It's probable that you would have difficulty registering on a forum with such a username. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 15:56, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

:I was thinking the same thing. We blocked some guy from registering such a name referencing Detour, why should we allow such statements against Bay? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 16:09, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

::Yeah, I also thought his name was inappropriate. I don't think personal threats would be acceptable here, particularly about such a controversial figure in Transformers fandom. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 16:10, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

:::On Wookieepedia we routinely block people for having inappropriate names. I see no reason why we shouldn't have a similar policy here. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 16:19, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

::::How he creates a new account and the old one is blocked? Some of his edits aren't too bad; I don't see why he shouldn't get a second chance. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 16:21, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::Block the old account, post a nice note explaining that we want him to stay and continue working but that he cannot use a name that is attacking/insulting any person. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 16:32, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::I am in support of this, but he should be informed via his talkpage for one full day prior to the block, for the sake of not being too harsh. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 18:04, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::I fully agree with Detour. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 18:18, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::Now we just need to find an actual admin. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 19:12, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::And set the thing right. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 21:47, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::Well, he ignored Abates. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 06:52, 25 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::I was [[User:Michaelbayblows|Michaelbayblows]] but then I kinda stop using it because some mind find it offensive. So I am sorry for my inflammatory username. --[[User:HeyTFWiki|HeyTFWiki]] 05:17, 31 July 2010 (EDT)

== Official sources policy ==

Recently, some of us have been explaining to a user why video from a cellphone camera of the movie set cannot be taken as official sources. I was going to link to the official sources page when I realized that I do not know what it's called and cannot find it. Which brings me to this point: we actually took the time to write out and codify our what we consider to be official sources, right? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 16:22, 10 July 2010 (EDT)
:It's at [[Help:Official info]]. And next time, somebody should probably just place the <nowiki>{{scoop bastard}}</nowiki> template. (I was going to but couldn't find a good chance.) --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 16:26, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

== Disgusting ad ==
Sorry if I'm posting this at the wrong place, but is there anywhere we can complain about the ads on the wiki? Not to overstep my (very modest) bounds here or anything, but that ad with the GIANT PIMPLE on the back of the guy's neck is really off-putting... You've probably all seen it by now right? I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks this... Call me squeamish if you will, but it's really bothering me... --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] 14:40, 15 July 2010 (EDT)
:I'm with this 100%. I'm so glad I haven't eaten a thing all day, because I'd have lost my breakfast and my lunch by now. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 14:49, 15 July 2010 (EDT)
::I wouldn't mind so much if it would only pop up occassionally (then again, my gross tolerance is relatively high). But to be confronted with the world's largest zit every page I go on this wiki... Rather not. [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 14:55, 15 July 2010 (EDT)
:::I checked the PW sites - must have been outbid so I missed it. What the heck was it for? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 22:37, 15 July 2010 (EDT)
::::It was for a website ''about the world's largest pimple!'' It was [http://www.worldslargestzit.net this] I believe. SO not missing that ad. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 03:19, 16 July 2010 (EDT)

==Disamb template on calendar pages?==
So while fiddling around with the latest additions to our "day in history" pages, I got to thinking. Separating bullets with a blank line adds to our pages' sizes because that adds a "list start/stop" in the coding, yes? 
Well... does the <nowiki>{{disamb}}</nowiki> Template do that when we split that up with a blank line between them? The only real difference we ''see'' on the page is a "—" instead of a ":" after the bolded year. I fiddled with it a bit (without saving) and it looks good to me; I'll probably do up a Sandbox. If using this template doesn't add to the page size in the back-end that we don't see in the normal edit window... it sure would make it easier to read in said edit window, plus give the lists that litlte extra space between lines for readability on the normal pages. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 14:45, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
:Yes, putting spaces between {{tl|disamb}} also causes the problem whereby each item is in its own list. We can space out the more compact lists on the normal pages using css, but I don't think there's any way to space them out on the edit window due to the way MediaWiki parses stuff. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 17:43, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
::Well, that's goddamn irksome. It's too easy to get lost in a mass of unbroken text in the edit window. but if we can add jsut a little space between items in the final result, I'll be happy. Though this does beg the question of whether we should move over to using the disamb template anyway for calendars. Probably ought to be going over our disambiguation pages and bringing them up to code anyway (well, where dates are applicable). At the very least, I'm liking the use of em-dashes instead of colons. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 11:23, 22 July 2010 (EDT)

==TF Wiki Firefox Search Engine Add-On==
I'm surprised that one wasn't created a long time ago. It would make things incredibly convenient, and it can't be that hard to make. Anyone else like the idea? Anyone here have experience?
--[[User:Devastator|Devastator]] 15:27, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
:Please elaborate. What function exactly would such an add-on serve? --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:32, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
::None. You can add the wiki to the search engines list without messing with addons. Just go to a page on the wiki, and click on the down arrow in Firefox's search box. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 15:38, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
:::Wow, I must be blind. Thanks guys. There should be something on the home page encouraging visitors to do just that. Might help with traffic. --[[User:Devastator|Devastator]] 15:50, 21 July 2010 (EDT)

== In regards to expo 86. ==

Hey, Editor from Seibertron.com here. The front page list a request about "Information on the Transformers presentation at Vancouver's Expo '86".

I was about 11 then but I spent a lot of time at Expo during that summer. I don't remember any presentations per say, but I do remember that Hasbro (or at least Hasbro Canada) did have a presence. Namely they had 3-4 outdoor kiosks located around the fair, these were freestanding units with each one branded with one of four Hasbro properties, I clearly remember one being for Transformers and another for My Little Pony, the other(s) escape me at the moment but I am fairly certain that GIJoe wasn't there, and one could have been a generic Hasbro one. Additionally, one proper store was set up more for kids goods in the Red Zone near the Land Plaza and UFOH2O, that stocked the same items.

Due to the size of the units a good amount of available items were blister packs mainly Scamble City units. Boxed TF's were available but in smaller amounts (For some reason I want to say a good number of Wreck-gars and Gnaws were there) Sadly due to the location everything was more expensive than they could be found for at local stores. What was cool is that each of the kiosks regardless of how they were branded had a bit of everything, and they occasionally had loose pieces on hand. (I do remember playing with a Swindle at the actual TF Kiosk.

Don't know if that really helps but hopefully it did. Feel free to contact me thru Seibs if you have any questions.

:Hmm, that's interesting, though, it being your memories from about 24 years ago, I'm not sure how "article information"-worthy it is. Would you happen to have any photos taken of the event? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 17:25, 24 July 2010 (EDT)

::Not in my personal collection, but since writing the above I have been looking thru some online records of the fair to see if I can spot those kiosks. If I remember correctly where a couple were I might be able locate some. If I can find them I'll post here.

:::In our anon's defense, I offer the following taken from a story titled "Expo '86 a hit at luring firms through turnstiles" written by Jennifer Hunter, and published in the May 1st, 1986 edition of ''The Globe and Post'':
::::Expo is offering corporate exclusivity; there was already a soft-drink manufacturer, a car maker and a bank, but no toy company. Hasbro - with 1985 sales of $1.2-billion (U.S.) and profit of $99-million - is one of the largest toy manufacturers in North America and seemed a likely candidate to fork over dollars for a world's fair.

::::Mr. Hassenfeld and his brother Stephan could not resist the Expo slogan - Invite the World. A global showcase for Hasbro toys was too good an offer to turn down. So the Hassenfeld brothers delivered a cheque for $2-million (Canadian) to sponsor the Expo Centre geodesic dome. In return, Hasbro toys will be sold on the fair site.

::::"Bringing the name Hasbro before the public is the major reason we are participating," Mr. Hassenfeld said.

:::So it looks like his memories are probably accurate. --[[User:Tigerpaw28|Tigerpaw28]] 17:22, 25 July 2010 (EDT)

::::Hopefully '''''whomever asked for this information in the first place''''' will pop in and comment. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:53, 31 July 2010 (EDT)

== Titan Magazines ==

Is there a reason why none of the Titan Movie comics pages have Featured Character boxes? --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:47, 29 July 2010 (EDT)

:It is highly possible that the pages (or at least the sections) are still under working. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 21:52, 29 July 2010 (EDT)

::They seem pretty complete other than the featured character lists. Not sure what's up with that! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 22:26, 29 July 2010 (EDT)

:::*makes note to add Featured Character boxes to as many Titan Movie comics pages as possible sometime in the near future* --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 03:53, 30 July 2010 (EDT)

== No Hasbro Q and A? ==

Just wondering: Are we not participating in the Hasbro QandA's any more? We apparently didn't submit anything to the last one (along with a lot of other places weirdly, did Hasbro trim the list of who could ask or something?). Anyway, according to the Allspark the next set of questions are due Aug 9th, just wanted to see if anyone knew what was up? --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 08:30, 31 July 2010 (EDT)
: We didn't send in questions because they were due during BotCon and we messed up. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:24, 31 July 2010 (EDT)
::Well it's kinda understandable. We were hardly the only ones to miss it, given the slim list of sites with questions for July. Anyway, we'll have question solicitation for August open soon then? --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 10:45, 31 July 2010 (EDT)

== An article on racing ==

Not sure if this is exactly the right place to ask this, but...

Would an article on [[racing]] be appropriate for the wiki? Races do seem to crop up a lot in TF fiction. Off the top of my head, I can think of the [[Trans-Europe Express]] (G1), the race series where [[Road King]] was found (Masterforce), the nutty race where everyone tried to lure out [[Skid-Z (RID)|Skid-Z]] (RID), the one the Autobots had after Inferno died (Energon), [[Velocitron]]'s entire culture (Cybertron), and [[Street Demon]] (Animated).

Aye or nay? --[[User:Fortress Minimus|Fortress Minimus]] 13:23, 8 August 2010 (EDT)
: If there's enough races, perhaps a category would suffice? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:34, 8 August 2010 (EDT)
::Might I suggest [[Cybertronian_sport#Races|here]] as a starting point.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 13:37, 8 August 2010 (EDT)
:::Didn't know about that page. Yeah, that's more appropriate. --[[User:Fortress Minimus|Fortress Minimus]] 17:52, 8 August 2010 (EDT)

== Fan translated manga images. ==

I noticed quite a few images of manga that have fan translations in the word bubbles. It the wiki cool with that? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 18:55, 8 August 2010 (EDT)
:Well, I for one don't mind, because it lets me understand what's going on... it's official media, just translated by fans. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 18:58, 8 August 2010 (EDT)
::If the person uploading it can vouch for the accuracy of the translation, then I have no problem with it. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 19:04, 8 August 2010 (EDT)

== Movie 1 characters vs drones ==

Am I alone in thinking maybe we should split up pages like [[Longarm (Movie)]] and [[Swindle (Movie)]] into pages that cover the individual characters and the drones in their likeness separately? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:56, 12 August 2010 (EDT)

:I'd agree with that. I thought we had already done that for some of them. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 23:36, 12 August 2010 (EDT)

:::I agree with the splitting if possible. Since individual characters are much different from drones. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 02:20, 13 August 2010 (EDT)
::::Split 'em. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 11:33, 15 August 2010 (EDT)

== Reissues and rereleases ==

Which reissues deserve to be listed separately from their original release? For some reason, reissues of G1 toys have been listed separately on some pages but not on others. I think [[Hot Rod (G1)|Hot Rod]]'s toy page mentions aimsing to list all reissues separately. The 2010 [[Piranacon]] reissue is listed separately, but not the 2010 [[Predaking]]. Also, the toys rereleased in [[Universe (2003 toyline)|Universe]] are listed separately on the character pages even though they're ''completely'' unchanged, unlike some reissues of G1 figures. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 10:35, 21 August 2010 (EDT)
:I think part of that is simply older pages not having been updated since the decision was made to separate reissues (At least I'm pretty sure we are aiming to keep them separate). Newer reissues, like the Predaking, have probably been handled in the way the poster in question had seen such things done on other pages, leading to continuing inconsistency. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 10:58, 21 August 2010 (EDT)
::So, the current standard is to list releases separately? Is that on any help or policy page? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 11:12, 21 August 2010 (EDT)

== Wikia ==

Thank god we jumped ship when we did, because Wikia is planning on switching to a new skin.

[http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Your_First_Look_at_the_New_Wikia Preview]

--[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 16:43, 21 August 2010 (EDT)

:They must have switched already? Because every single Wikia site is completely effed up in IE7 now. --[[User:Salt-Man Z|Salt-Man Z]] 18:37, 26 August 2010 (EDT)
::No, they haven't. They're having technical problems with the server they use for css and images. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:12, 26 August 2010 (EDT)

== Explicitly Saying Characters Are Similar To Earlier Characters Of Same Name ==

On the [[Blackarachnia (Animated)]] talk page, [[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] is saying that characters that are homages to earlier characters of the same name need to have this pointed out, in something like the form "Blackarachnia (Animated) is based on the original Blackarachnia (BW), who first appeared in the Beast Wars franchise."
* Is this a good idea, as it will help people who are new to Transformers learn about the history of the brand?
* Is it unnecessary to point out that characters are similar to earlier characters of the same name, since it's very common, and would involve altering lots of pages?
* Other?
[[User:JW|JW]] 19:18, 26 August 2010 (EDT)
:Blackarachnia (Animated) has a lot of similarities and also a lot of differences with Blackarachnia (BW). I don't think I'd go so far as to say she was "based on" Blackarachnia (BW). Swindle (Animated), on the other hand, is a direct transplant of Swindle (G1). - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 19:47, 26 August 2010 (EDT)

::It may seem like a total DUH kind of thing to all the long-time TF fans who inhabit this place, but for our readers, such information seems totally relevant and useful. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 21:05, 26 August 2010 (EDT)
::There's a friggin' disambig right up top in a separated box for... all the charcaters who have the same name! Wow! And we're talking about hundreds upon hundreds of pages where we'd have to do this. It's not quite "This is a picture of Megatron" level DUH, but it's in the ballpark. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 23:53, 26 August 2010 (EDT)
:::I honestly don't understand what the disambigs have to do with this. The only information they are there to convey is "there are other characters with this name, go to this separate page for a list." They don't in any way tell you "this character who's article you're reading now was based on this other one." Especially since many characters who share the name don't actually have any other relationship to each other. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 00:15, 27 August 2010 (EDT)
::::Characters with the same name as each other within the same brand are expected to be similar (if not identical) to each other, with older ones serving as inspiration for later ones. If characters of the same name are not similar would seem to be more notable than if they are similar. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:09, 27 August 2010 (EDT)
:::::The Prowls, Scavengers, Razorclaws, and Bonecrushers tend to have very little to do with one another. Note that the main page for the Animated franchise points out that so many of the characters are clear homages to their earlier-series namesakes too. Since it has been over 10 years since the first Blackarachnia did anything, I don't see the harm in putting a one-liner at the top of BA-Animated's "Notes" section saying she's totally based on the first one. Kil is right--it wouldn't be "just so obvious" to a 14-year-old who was brought in by the movies and Animated. To a newcomer, why would it be especially obvious that Animated Ironhide and Blitzwing are based on namesakes from Cold War-era cartoons they never saw? Where's the harm in just one line? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 13:29, 27 August 2010 (EDT)
::::::I have to agree that it's not going to be obvious to someone coming in from the Movie or Animated, or even the Unicron Trilogy that many of the homages are homages. Especially Ratchet, given the drastically different color scheme Movie Ratchet (Rescue Ratchet toys notwithstanding) has compared to the others. I admit, it might seem a litte weird to make what seems to us to be such an obvious note on so many pages but if our goal is to make this Wiki accessible and informative to fans of all levels then I think it's necessary to do so.
::::::And for BA's case, I think it additionally warrants mentioning Binaltech Blackwidow as a direct inspiration. Because even though most of the design cues come originally from her first and TM2 incarnations, I don't think you get to Animated BA with the combination of attributes (and the black gloves) without going through the Binaltech version first. --[[User:Tigerpaw28|Tigerpaw28]] 15:06, 27 August 2010 (EDT)
::::::I feel it's necessary to point out that a newcomer is probably not going to get to the [[Blackarachnia (Animated)]] page without passing through [[Blackarachnia (disambiguation)]] first. So, they're gonna be made aware of the Beast Wars character. (Sure, they might get there through other means, but it's not the most likely route.)
::::::However, if the consensus is leaning toward allowing notes of the form "Foo is based on Foo of same name," how do we decide which characters need it? Just from Animated, here's all the characters who visually homage previous characters of the same name: Arcee, Big Bang Prime, Blackarachnia, Blackout, Blitzwing, Blurr, Botanica, Brawn, Bumblebee, Bumper, Cliffjumper, Cosmos, Cyclonus, Dai Atlas, Devcon, Flip Sides, Grimlock, Highbrow, Hot Shot, Hot Spot Major, Impactor Major, Ironhide, Jazz, Laserbeak, Longrack Major, Mainframe, Mixmaster, Octus, Omega Supreme, Omega SPREEM, Optimus Prime, Perceptor, Powerglide, Primal Major, Railspike Major, Ratbat, Ratchet, Reflector, Rodimus Prime, Rosanna, Seaspray, Silverbolt Major, Sky-Byte, Soundwave, Spittor, Springer, Starscream (Thundercracker, Skywarp, Ramjet, Dirge, Thrust, Sunstorm), Steeljaw, Straxus, Strika, Swindle, Swoop, Tracks, Warpath, Wheeljack, Zaur. (I left out the Witwickys and some of the Bumblebee-clones.) Do we add that note to ''all'' of them? [[User:JW|JW]] 15:49, 27 August 2010 (EDT)
In the absence of any strong support either way on this issue, I'm going to assume our current implicit policy holds: When a new character is based on an old character of the same name, explictly pointing it out is neither required nor prohibited. [[User:JW|JW]] 11:14, 22 September 2010 (EDT)

== Continuity note ==

Which articles don't need one. [[Vector Prime]] doesn't but [[Nexus Prime]] and [[Alpha Trion (Prime)]] ''do''. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 12:42, 28 August 2010 (EDT)
:...what? --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 13:32, 28 August 2010 (EDT)
::He means as multiversal singularities the One, Primus, Unicron, Prima, Fallen and Vector don't have continuity notes at the top indicating which franchise they're from. Nexus is just an interesting case, and frankly all the Alpha Trions should be merged. [[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] 13:43, 28 August 2010 (EDT)
::: So, any of 'em need removing? (Also, when did I ever admitmy gender either way?) [[User:Item42|Item42]] 14:11, 28 August 2010 (EDT)
::::How about we wait until we have more information before dealing with any of this? I swear. We know so very little about how this new continuity family works with (or doesn't) what's come before, and sweeping changes like merging Alpha Trions may end up being messily reverted. How about we hold the hell off until we learn more. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 14:21, 28 August 2010 (EDT)
::::What about [[Nexus Prime]]'s article? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 14:31, 28 August 2010 (EDT)
:::::What's '''wrong''' with it? Seriously? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:37, 28 August 2010 (EDT)
:I'm asking about the need for a continuity identifier,which, as pointed out above is absent in some [[multiversal singularity|similar]] articles. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 15:18, 28 August 2010 (EDT)
:: Those guys aren't made out of other guys. I am wondering very hard why this is an issue. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:37, 28 August 2010 (EDT)
::: I just want to know how things are supposed to be done so I could do said things properly. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 15:46, 28 August 2010 (EDT)

== Malware warning ==

I just got a malware warning when I tried to load the page, seemingly resulting from the css file included from [[User:Derik|Derik]]'s site emopanda. I'm taking the call to that script out of common.css until we can get it sorted. Most of the css is also in a local file that's already being included anyway, so hopefully nothing should break. The malware warning refers me to [http://safebrowsing.clients.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?site=http://emopanda.com/&client=googlechrome&hl=en-US this page]. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 04:15, 29 August 2010 (EDT)

== Some Wikipedia user ==

From [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:NotARealWord&oldid=381724818 my Wikipedia talk page]
{{note|Yes, I have different usernames on different wikis.}}

{{quote|I take it you don't know the TFWiki very well. It's server is run by [[David Willis|a guy]] who blocked Wikipedia Transformers editors from it He has publically stated that he started that server to have a place away from Wikipedia to make his articles. Anyone who edits in a proper Wikipedia style with limiting things to notable topics with reliable sources (which is me, by his standards) gets reverted and blocked|
User:Mathewignash|
}}

Okay, User:Mathewignash seems to be responsible for a lot of the TF fancruft on [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Transformers Wikipedia]. Also has been trying to "save" articles nominated for deletion due to lack of notability. Makes me wonder:
* Is this person somebody the admins here are familiar with?
* How do I respond to that statement against TFWiki? Considering I was pretty welcomed here when I started. Should I point out the users who regularly use ''both'' sites?
* Is there some small corner of the [[fandom]] that likes buttloads of fancruft-y TF articles, but have something against using TFWiki?
* Is this person anything to do with the people asking TFWiki to be more like [[Wikipedia]], despite how its rules are '''very''' unsuitable for a TF-specific wiki? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 14:52, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

:[[User:Primal Rage]]. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 14:53, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

:Oh yes, the community here is very familiar with Mr. Ignash. He and Walky have a long history of feuding. Walky has stated that he came here to escape Ignash in particular, not wikipedia editors in general. In the few times I've run across Ignash he seems rather jerky, virtually everyone here seems welcoming to me. Don't know about point three. Not sure if Ignash has connections to any of the various people who don't like the wiki's tone, but your point about wikipedia being a bad model for a TF specific site is a good one. While we do strive for proper citations here, "notability" is not a valid criterion for this site. Few TF characters/concepts are truly notable in a real world sense. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 14:56, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

::Thank you, I try to treat wikis differently since they have different purposes. What about the questions in bullet-point number two? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 15:01, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

:::Your suggestion of mentioning people on both sites is a good idea, I edit on wikipedia under the same alias but much less frequently and even less substantially. Don't know about anyone else. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:07, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

::::I do. Rarely and with a different name, but I do. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 15:13, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

:::Ignash is not worth responding to. Let him play in his turd-filled sandbox. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 15:21, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

::::Correction. Nobody who thinks that Wikipedia is better than TFWiki is worth responding to. I have learned this the hard way. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:31, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

:::::What about that bit about a small corner of the fandom? User:Dream Focus seems to also fit that description. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 15:43, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

::::::Yes, there is a small corner of the fandom that likes the Wikipedia-style TF articles. However, I would like to know is where the hell you are getting this stuff about Dream Focus fitting that description. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:47, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

:::::::To Item42, read the archives on Matthewignash's user talk page at wikipedia. The man can't even follow the rules that he exhorts as superior to ours. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:49, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

::::::::Please, do point the above out to him. I'd do it myself but they blocked my IP because I decided that Wikipedia was a piece of crap and went on a massive, 40-account vandalism rampage. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 16:04, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

::::::From what I can tell, Dream Focus is just against deletion of Wikipedia articles under non-notability, and may not be active in Transformers fandom. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:20, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

:The issue, simply, is not with "other Wikipedia users" - it is with Ignash himself. There is a ''reason'' the Transformers articles on Wikipedia are such a jumbled mess of copy-pasted partially-overly-detailed summaries, gross generalizations and list after list of Optimus Prime's appearances in ''Family Guy'' and ''Robot Chicken'' that lack any kind of consistency between each other and he is mainly it. Nearly everyone who ever tried to edit constructively there came here because he never compromises on his stupid, stupid way of organizing an article, and we neither want nor require his presence here. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 16:35, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

::It reminds me that I moved to Wikia (long before the Exodus) as soon as I found the TFwiki, and soon after that, I left Wikipedia(TF-related) as soon as I found TFwiki has more strict rules than Wikipedia does in some way (for example, we won't see any leak or unofficial information in TFwiki). (And yes, I can't stand some users on Wikipedia.) Plus, I feel Wikipedia is more harsh on fictional-related articles sometimes. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 03:41, 31 August 2010 (EDT)

:::Once again, correction. It doesn't really matter what the subject is, it just matters if someone has an axe to grind and if there's an admin who is willing to completely ignore common sense so that the people holding the axes can come out on top. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:19, 31 August 2010 (EDT)

::::Well, now it looks like Ignash can't always [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Transformers/Proposed_centralized_transformers_discussion come out on top]. Seems mostly him and Dream Focus trying to stop the article deletions. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 12:15, 31 August 2010 (EDT)

I think most of us at some point or other already came to the conclusion that Wikipedia was never going to have in-depth Transformers coverage. I'm pretty at-peace with that, because it was never realistic to think that they'd ever do it in the granularity that a dedicated wiki like this place can afford to do. Ignash came over here at one point, and I more or less went to bat for him, which I realize in retrospect was a mistake. The guy's very set in his ways, and he's poison to collaborative projects.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 11:37, 2 September 2010 (EDT)

:A general purpose encyclopedia (Wikipedia) cannot and should not have the same depth of coverage as dedicated references (tfwiki). Just as you wouldn't expect articles on every minor Shakespearean character on Wikipedia, you shouldn't expect every minor TF to have an article there. As far as going to bat for Ignash, I actually agreed with you standing up for him. Everyone deserves a chance to contribute. The problem was that he didn't want to contribute and collaborate and work within the guidelines here, because of that he is banned. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:42, 2 September 2010 (EDT)

::[[Wikipedia]] has just '''way''' too much TF fancruft. The big-time deletion "campaign" going on right now should be able to fix ''some'' of that. Hopefully. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 10:12, 3 September 2010 (EDT)

:::Dream Focus [http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/Dream_Focus is on Wikia]. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 09:19, 6 September 2010 (EDT)

===Wikipedia's TF Project===
[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:WikiProject Transformers|Wikipedia:WikiProject Transformers]] 666 articles. Heh [[User:Item42|Item42]] 09:26, 6 September 2010 (EDT)

== Dimension-hopping ==

Should that get an article? The "Fiction" sections on [[continuity]] and [[multiverse]] seem mainly about that. Comparing those sections, it seems they're somewhat... redundant. Maybe a separate article about dimension-hopping would be better. Maybe the article should also cover characters moving within the same [[continuity family]]. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 10:34, 3 September 2010 (EDT)
:The "multiverse" really only appears in fiction when dimension-hopping is involved, so that's why the fiction section is all about dimension hopping. "Continuity" probably doesn't need a fiction section since it is pretty much a wiki thing explaining how the wiki is organized. You are right that we should talk about dimension-hopping in the same continuity. There is a mini-multiverse in the G1 cartoon episode [[Madman's Paradise]] that should be commented on. How does [[Menonia]] relate to the [[multiverse]]? That's a good question. I think that can be explored on the "multiverse" page though. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 10:53, 3 September 2010 (EDT)
::Would it be okay if I (or anybody else) removes the "fiction" section of "[[continuity]]" and puts up that information in "[[multiverse]]"? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 14:52, 4 September 2010 (EDT)

== User admonition templates ==

Is there a list of the various templates that can be placed on a user page to give them advice (editing tips, spelling, no scoops, no fanon, etc)? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 11:27, 3 September 2010 (EDT)
:[[:Category:User notice templates]]. There are some in there that rarely get used! --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 11:32, 3 September 2010 (EDT)
::Thanks, NCZ. I could not remember the "correct english" one and couldn't find a page that had one. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 11:58, 3 September 2010 (EDT)

== Categories ==

Can anyone explain to me why categories that apply to specific toys are put on the general article for the character that toy represents and not on the image of the particular toy? Why not put the category tags on the picture's own page? For example, [[Starscream (Movie)]] is not actually a Kmart exclusive, the Nebular Starscream toy is. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 09:33, 4 September 2010 (EDT)

== Links that overexplain jokes ==

I got reverted on [[Soundwave (ROTF)]] because apparently, adding links to explain captions ruins them. (I didn't remove or change the joke, just added the links. )Should that be on the official caption policy? . Although, I'm rather concerned that more casual readers might not understand references (like "[[JaAm|hump that tank]]" for example), and I don't intend to confuse people. So really, is it so bad to explain jokes (through wikilinks) for the sake of people with little TF knowledge? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 20:08, 4 September 2010 (EDT)
:Well, y'know what they say - "If you have to ''explain'' a joke, there ''is'' no joke." Personally, I've always loathed joke-explaining word-linking, especially when it's to something off-site. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 20:30, 4 September 2010 (EDT)
::Personally, I think that adding those links introduce casual wiki-readers to more TF stuff, and that content should be written with more clueless readers in mind. Although, if it's just ''that bad'', maybe it should be mentioned on the policy page. It's easier to avoid doing things when you know you should. Also, what about on-site linking, like potholing "hump that tank" to [[jaAm]]? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 20:50, 4 September 2010 (EDT)
Anyway, can I (or anyone else) do at least a ''little bit'' of on-site caption linking?[[User:Item42|Item42]] 18:19, 13 September 2010 (EDT)
:No. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 19:43, 13 September 2010 (EDT)
::Then can someone please put that up on [[Transformers Wiki:Caption]] so that people can be sure that's what the community as a whole wants, and not just the two people who responded here? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 14:55, 14 September 2010 (EDT)

== Next Hasbro Q&A Questions due Mon! ==

According to the Allspark the next round of Hasbro Q&A questions are due 1 week from today (Sept 13). I know we havn't even recieved the last set of answers back yet. But shouldn't we set up a page to take question submissions for next Mon. --[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 14:33, 6 September 2010 (EDT)

:Hey, how come we haven't gotten answers from the [[Hasbro Q&A/August 2010: Question submission|most recent one]] yet? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 17:20, 6 September 2010 (EDT)

::Because Hasbro's a busy place and they haven't had a chance to get them back to us yet. They're usually a week or two behind their estimated return date, nothing new there. This IS the first time I can recall where the next questions might be due before the last set of answers appears though. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 07:31, 7 September 2010 (EDT)

== RFC Wiki Spotlight ==

What-ho. If any wiki contributors happen to be listeners of [http://www.tfradio.net Radio Free Cybertron], you may have noticed that I've started doing a small spot on the show called the "Wiki Spotlight", highlighting an interesting article each week and drawing attention to it. Thus far I've just done our featured articles of the last two months, but I figured I'd open up the floor to any and all random suggestions as to what articles - big or small, well-known or obscure - deserve a mention. Speak up! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 08:07, 11 September 2010 (EDT)
:[[Angry Archer]] and [[Thor]]. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:48, 11 September 2010 (EDT)
::[[Sky-Byte (RID)]]! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:31, 11 September 2010 (EDT)
:::[[Rorza, the Rocket-cycle Racer from Rigel III]]! -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 19:56, 11 September 2010 (EDT)
::::[[Shockwave (G1)]] looks pretty good to me. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 15:38, 14 September 2010 (EDT)
:::::[[Wheelie (G1)]], [[Scale]] and [[B.O.T. (episode)]] might be fun to feature. Can I also suggest that a link to the article mentioned be placed on the tfradio.net post accompanying the podcast, because it'll be easier for the listeners. :) --[[User:Abates|abates]] 22:48, 14 September 2010 (EDT)

A while back I tried to edit the [[fandom]] page to mention the Podcasts around at the time (TFWIRE, WTF@TFW and the joke that was the Tformers podcast at that time. But TPTB wiped the whole lot! That was a pretty big "Screw you!" to the podcasts. [[User:Drmick|Drmick]] 15:21, 16 September 2010 (EDT)

== Toy patents ==

User: Sarujo at Wikipedia posted a list of TF related patents. I have put them in [[User: Khajidha/sandbox|my sandbox]]. I've found and corrected a few errors/misidentifications already. Is this material useful or was it all already known? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 08:30, 13 September 2010 (EDT)
:Interesting stuff. Do you mind if I go through the unknowns and put names on the ones I can identify? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 08:35, 13 September 2010 (EDT)
::Feel free, that's why I posted the link. I won't have time today to give it the thorough going over it deserves. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 08:39, 13 September 2010 (EDT)
:::Thanks. And that, as they say, is that. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 09:22, 13 September 2010 (EDT)
::::They still need to be resorted. Warpath wasn't a Microman mold and it would probably be useful to have the Scramble City molds separated. Beyond that, I don't know. I don't want to get it so sorted that it becomes LESS useful. If nothing else, I figured the notes about inventors/designers might be data otherwise hard to come by. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 09:32, 13 September 2010 (EDT)
:::::Anyone willing to go trolling through patent listings? We seem to be missing those for several members of various combiner teams. Perhaps they can be found by cross referencing those we do have? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 10:54, 13 September 2010 (EDT)
::::::The designer data ALONE makes these worthwhile. That's awesome information. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 11:28, 13 September 2010 (EDT)
:::::::I've conveyed our thanks to Sarujo over at Wikipedia. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:18, 13 September 2010 (EDT)

== Photos of toys ==
I found [[Wikipedia:Template:Non-free 3D art|this]] bit about copyright law.
*Does that mean ''every'' photo of an official TF figure needs a note like "character and toy design under copyright by [[HasTak]]"?
*Should this site also make a template like that?
*Would this be a good reason/excuse to copy photos from other fansites since ''your own photos'' (and anyone else's) would still have to go under fair use?
-[[User:Item42|Item42]] 15:47, 14 September 2010 (EDT)
: I think that specifically applies to non-US countries, particularly IIRC Germany (Nevermore, confirm/deny?). As the Wiki is hosted in the US it isn't really relevant... yet? [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 06:56, 15 September 2010 (EDT)
::Actually, the Wikipedia template in that link says:
{{quote|This is a two-dimensional representation of a copyrighted sculpture, statue or any other three-dimensional work of art. As such it is a derivative work of art, and per [http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#106 US Copyright Act of 1976, § 106(2)] whoever holds copyright of the original has the exclusive right to authorize derivative works. 

Per [http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107 § 107] it is believed that reproduction for criticism, comment, teaching and scholarship constitutes fair use and does not infringe copyright.}}
So it ''is'' US-relevant. Although, looking at the [[Wikipedia:Template talk:Non-free 3D art#totallydisputed|talk page]], it seems that said law(s) might not be something to take seriously. So, no stealing toy photos? If not, can I try to get the clearly stolen ones (like one section of [[:Image:20thAnniversary OptimusPrimesm.jpg|this]]) replaced? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 04:44, 19 September 2010 (EDT)
:IIRC the law in question came up during (of all things) Batman Forever, when a copyrighted piece of industrial statue donated to a city as used as a shooting location in the film, got integrated into the sets, showed up on t-shirts and promotional cups, etc... the studio ended up paying millions in damages.
:Generally when I (rarely) take toy photos, I note that the '''photo''' is released to the public domain but ''Character likeness is {{c}} Hasbro 20XX'', making it clear that the ''photo'' is free, but its subject may not be. (Making a sculpture based on the photo would, obviously, present copyright issues.) Character likeness, IMO, seems like a better phrase to use than design since with multiple toys over decades, that's really what's being protected here-- not the transformation schema of mold D-22B.
:Part of what it means is that virtually '''no''' images on the wiki are eligible for "Copyleft," the status of absolute-public-domain with no entailment or restrictions. (This is not unique. A photo of your own family with a Coke ad in the background isn't eligible for Copyleft either.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 09:04, 19 September 2010 (EDT)
::Derik, how do you release something in public domain if you can't release it under copyleft? Also, does this mean that it's okay to steal toy photos? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 04:04, 21 September 2010 (EDT)

== Galvatron ==
So in [http://www.asmzine.com/geekly-rewind/2010/09/14/hasbro-transformers-qa-august-2010-answers/ ASM's Q&A response], Hasbro pretty much officially says to consider Galvatron a separate character from Megatron for all practical purposes. How do we tackle this? [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 06:56, 15 September 2010 (EDT)
:I interpret it as saying that in inducting Megatron, Galvatron is not being inducted by connection, since [[Megatron (Animated)|not all Megatrons have become Galvatrons]], and some interpretations of Galvatron (like IDW) are separate from Megatron. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 07:00, 15 September 2010 (EDT)
::Yeah, I don't think this really changes anything about the way we've already got Galvy covered. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 07:14, 15 September 2010 (EDT)

== Excessive Trivia Sections ==

Ok, a few days ago I attempted to clean up some trivia sections. I realize in hindsight I was tired and being a wanker and was removing valuable information, and I apologize for that. However, I think some of our trivia could definitely stand to be integrated into the articles themselves, especially notes like "This character's Universe toy was..." or "in the Energon comic, so-and so was completely different". I would like to integrate these but I was hoping to get an opinion on this, since I went about it wrong once already. Thoughts? -- [[User:Rideonshootingstarxx|Rideonshootingstarxx]] 12:44, 22 September 2010 (EDT)
:Agreed. The Notes sections (shouldn't be Trivia anymore) are for information that doesn't fit elsewhere. If there is a logical place to put it, move the information there. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:58, 22 September 2010 (EDT)

== Editing Drift's related materials ==
Actually, this would cover whatever anyone of us have a '''large''' dislike of, but yeah. This is a wiki, where we're supposed to be informative and be able to present the info in a fun way. I'm not entirely sure of how objective we can be (humor aside), but the whole kerfluffle on Drift's mini and cameos showing in his mini is making me worried on the attitudes of certain editors that could easily descend into a editing/name-calling/accusation war. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 21:39, 23 September 2010 (EDT)
:My position is the Wiki doesn't have to be ''objective'', so long as it isn't ''unreasonable''. There are plenty of flaws in Drift and Shane McCarthy's work to poke fun of -- there's no reason to create ones that aren't true.
:I was re-reading Drift #1 and happened to notice he DID suffer damage from those laser blasts while fleeing. I remembered that note on the Wiki joking that he was "laser-proof", so I removed it. I also posted on the Talk page explaining why. Detour restored the Note several times anyway, even though it was false as written. He eventually tried to re-write it, adding something about Deadlock surviving blasts that blew off Jetstorm's head earlier. Nowhere in the comic did Jetstorm's head get blown off. Drench's did, notCarnivac's did, but Jetstorm was fine. It just shows that Detour doesn't care about being accurate so long as he's not giving an inch on anything Anti-McCarthy on the Wiki.
:So really -- can't we be ''better'' than that? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] 22:05, 23 September 2010 (EDT)
::Well, I'm pretty sure I've said this before, but I really think Detour shouldn't be allowed to edit anything connected to McCarthy. And I'm pretty much branded an irrational anti-McCarthy troll on the IDW boards, so I think this is saying something. I'm first in line to complain when ''he deserves it'', this sort of stuff is just petty and weakens the valid criticism by association. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 22:25, 23 September 2010 (EDT)
::So because I mixed up Drench and Jetstorm's name, I'm now "making stuff up"? Now who's being irrational? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 00:39, 24 September 2010 (EDT)
:::Please try to be accurate when editing articles. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 02:57, 24 September 2010 (EDT)
::::Yeah, I don't think you really comprehend this discussion and the situation leading up to it, Item42. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 04:17, 24 September 2010 (EDT)
:::::Um, people generally hate [[Drift (G1)|Drift]], this wiki's editors want to have reliable articles, and Detour got stuff mixed up, which people blame on his anti-Drift-ism. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 05:53, 24 September 2010 (EDT)

== External Links ==

Similar to the whole business of changing all the "Trivia" sections into "Notes" sections, this is just a heads up for anyone who wants to chip in for a mundane task: if you ever see a link to TFU.info (or a similar toy site) in the External Links section of a character's page, relocating it to that character's Toys section would be super-awesome. (And if the External Links section subsequently becomes empty, get rid of it.) I wouldn't really describe this as a task with much urgency behind it, but it will make characters' pages look consistent, and consistency looks nice. It's really a minor edit that's easy and quick to do, and I'd appreciate some help in this fiasco. An example of how this is supposed to look like can be found at [[Optimus Primal/toys|Optimus Primal's toy section]]. So keep an eye out while you're bored and clicking that "Random Page" button. :) --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] 12:37, 26 September 2010 (EDT)
:I've been trying to do these whenever I come across one. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:44, 26 September 2010 (EDT)
==Who hosts your wiki now==
Wikia is making more unpopular changes, [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Your_First_Look_at_the_New_Wikia] with a new skin.

In this angry discussion, your site was mentioned as one site which said "f--- you wikia" and left, which I respect so much, and would like to emulate.

I am wondering who is hosting your wikia, and how much does it cost per year? Thank you. [[User:Adamtheclown|Adamtheclown]] 17:12, 28 September 2010 (EDT)

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2010-09-28T21:12:10Z

Adamtheclown: /* External Links */

__NEWSECTIONLINK__

This is the place for discussion of topics that affect the entire wiki. Some topics that would ordinarily be here have merited their own pages:

{{chapters|title=Specific Discussion Subjects|align=left|content=
<div class="list-header">'''Moving From Wikia:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving|Arriving]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving|Leaving]]
* [[Transformers Wiki:Community Portal/Complaints|Complaints]]
 <div class="list-header">'''New Ad Policy:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki:Ads|Ads]]
 <div class="list-header">'''Bookworm Database-Crash:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central|Damage Control Central]]
* [[Project:Bookworm Crash]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving2|Leaving Take 2]]
 <div class="list-header">'''Server Move:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving2|Arriving Take 2]]
 <div class="list-header">'''Relicensing:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Relicensing|Relicensing]]
 <div class="list-header">'''Dealing With Vandalism:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Vandalism|Vandalism]]
 <div class="list-header">'''GoBots Sister Wiki:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/GoBots|Discussion on the place of GoBots in this wiki]]
}} 

{{:{{FULLPAGENAMEE}}/Archive}}


== TFsource ad buy ==

TFsource contacted me, having seen our perennial Reprolabels ad up above and wanting in on a piece of the action, wanting to permanently buy one of our other ad spots. The question I have is, would/should we restrict them from ads depicting "third-party" toys and bootlegs? Perhaps this is the ghost of BotCon hovering over me, since their Wall Of Trademark And Copyright Theft Directly Facing the Hasbro Booth is prominent in my mind, and I know a few of the editors here expressed some displeasure with that. Is that a big deal for anyone, does anyone care in this context, or should I be all "ABSOLUTELY!" and then we make a deal and rake in the dough? Can we even judge, since we have, you know, all of this scanned material and whatnot? These are the questions I present. Tell me how much they matter. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:24, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

:All else being equal I'd prefer to avoid it, unless we're desperate for cash. We know some Hasbro staff look at this wiki and they've been clear in how much that stuff bugs them. Also, the more our pageviews include imagery of Fake Magnus Armor and Fake Springer and Fake Rod et al., the more we're going to have to deal with new arrivals who feel that's all kosher for inclusion in the main articles. If it's possible to get a TFSource ad that will never display a bootleg, then I'd have no problem with it. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 14:36, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

::Seems like a reasonable restriction for us to make to me. My take on our scans is that one, we generally err on the side of fair use in not uploading entire pages and making sure we credit the hell out of things, and two, they're not a 100% vital part of the wiki anyway--if Hasbro told us to take every scan down tomorrow we could comply and still have a perfectly usable (just a less visually exciting) wiki. 
::That's kind of different from openly advertising toys that totally violate Hasbro's copyright, though. Even aside from the legal tangles (which is no small aside, certainly), while I know we are in that murky grey area in some things, we ''have'' always tried to play as fair as we can with Hasbro in how we operate. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:40, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

:::I agree, no knockoffs in our ads if we can help it.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 14:44, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

::::Ditto on no knockoffs in the ads. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 14:59, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::ALL ABOARD THE DITTO ASTROTRAIN --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:07, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::N-O on the K-Os. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:12, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

::Yeah, if TFSource can give us ad without IP infringing product, I say let em in. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 15:17, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

:::Yikes, I'm looking at the side banner right now and it's full of IP infringing products. The one I see has Knight Morpher Commander, Crossfire Munition and Explorer and Warbot Defender. The only ACTUAL Transformers product in there is Masterpiece Ghost Starscream. I think it would be bad form to keep ads like that on the site. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 18:19, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

::::Ads without IP infringing material would be fine with me. [[User:MrBlud|MrBlud]] 18:56, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::Ugh. When they were allowed to buy the ad space, did they promise no knock-offs? - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 23:12, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::Big NO on knockoffs, including third-party. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 01:51, 8 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::I am cool with them buying adspace IF they only advertise official Transformers products. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 06:14, 8 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::I say YES to having the Third party stuff on here. As you can see by the continuity discussion above Hasbro don't really give a damn about Transformers fiction the way we do. The third party stuff proves that those guys have passion that many in Hasbro do not. And "knock-offs" is a bit harsh, no? So in summary, screw Hasbro and yeah Fansproject! And let's be honest if the choice as to who controls Transformers came down to a two-way battle between Hasbro and TFWiki, who would you pick? [[User:Drmick|Drmick]] 10:44, 8 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::Drmick, we're talking '''''IP infringement''''' here and we occasionally have actual Hasbro folks peek in here time to time. I think I speak for the others in that none of us wants them knocking on the wiki's doors with some form of a C&D or something that'll restrict us (save certain circumstances). We've probably toed a couple lines somewhere more than several times, and I for one, do NOT want our relationship with Hasbro to be messed up. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 12:22, 8 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::What LG said. Also, we're not talking about putting Fansproject's knockoffs on the wiki itself... just adspace for sites dedicated to selling such knockoffs. And I'm giving that idea a big fat ''hell no''. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:49, 8 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::No doubt the only reason the ad is still up is because Walky's on the road. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 02:38, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::::What ad are you guys seeing? All I see is a Project Wonderful sidebar ad (current bidder is Unreal Books) and reprolabels permanent banner up top. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 02:55, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::::I'm seeing a TFSource ad ABSOLUTELY FULL of pics of third-party stuff. And MP Ghost Starscream. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 02:57, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::::::Yeah, for some reason I'm not seeing any of that. I just see two Project Wonderful ads on the left hand side "Advertisement" sidebar, so TF Source's ad must be triggered by IP address or something. Also, if the ad is already up after only one day (or less) of community consultation, and Walky's not around to deal with administration problems relating to it (especially as there is a fear of how TF Source's wares would look to Hasbro), then that's poor planning on his part, (no offense intended, boss.) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:02, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::::::Weird, it's gone for me, now. Where it was I have a Project Wonderful ad displaying Akemi's Anime World. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 03:11, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::::::::Still there for me. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 03:36, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::::::::Just tried it on another browser that I never use (in case there's some cache thing on the main browser - no change, I don't see the TF Source banner. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:18, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::::::::::Project Wonderful ads are localized, guys. TFSource probably just shelled out the dough for their ad in the States only. I've never seen it up, myself. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 04:34, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::::::::::I'm in ''Poland'', Detour. That's on an entirely different ''continent'' than the US. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 04:37, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::::::::::::I'm in Canada, and I have seen it. I just don't see it anymore. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 04:44, 9 July 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::::Wait, you're Polish? I had no idea. You talk gooder English than me. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 04:39, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::::::::::::: The advert's currently only displaying in Europe. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 05:26, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::::::::::::: No wonder, all I see are just two Project Wonderful random ads. And I'm in Taiwan. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 05:52, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

TFsource said they were willing to give us a banner that has no third-party stuff on it! Hooray! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 08:01, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

:Oh yeh, that sounds nice to me. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 08:09, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

::And it should be noted that during the time we were displaying the "offending" ad, we had not yet agreed to have an adspace bought out by TFSource. They'd just bought the ad the normal way, and as they'd been a prior bidder, they were pre-approved.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 11:13, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

:::Excellent - my apologies, Walky. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:00, 10 July 2010 (EDT)
That sidebar ad with the knock-off Swindle, Springer, and HoS Optimus has started showing up for me again, in Canada if that's relevant. It had stopped showing up less than a day after I first saw it, but now it's there again. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 23:46, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

:Another Canadian here. Same situation as Cattleprod. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 23:58, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

::Me too, same ad as before, knockoffs and all. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 03:12, 12 July 2010 (EDT)
:::Yep, knock-off ad here too. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 12:44, 12 July 2010 (EDT)

::::On the Project Wonderful site, both the Canadian and EU traffic are seeing the version of the banner with the Munitioner upgrade sets, Knight Morpher Commander and Warbot Defender. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:24, 12 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::Now I see THE ad, too. (Taiwan, Asia) --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 22:40, 15 July 2010 (EDT)

Welp, Californian and now I'm seeing the Munitioner set, alongside Knight Morpher and Warbot Defender with MP Ghost Starscream. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 02:26, 14 July 2010 (EDT)
:I'm in Ohio and getting Naruto vol. 48 as the ad. --[[User:Tigerpaw28|Tigerpaw28]] 02:45, 14 July 2010 (EDT)

::TFSource's knockoffs ad is back for Canadian and European visitors. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 08:59, 15 July 2010 (EDT)

:::Seeing all sorts of KOs advertised now. Can we void their contract and keep their money as a fine for breaking their agreement with us? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:02, 15 July 2010 (EDT)PS- since when is NC in Europe/Canada?

:::Welp, [http://img535.imageshack.us/i/tfsourcead01.jpg/ this] [http://img693.imageshack.us/i/tfsourcead02.jpg/ I certainly] [http://img14.imageshack.us/i/tfsourcead03.jpg/ agree]. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 15:05, 15 July 2010 (EDT)

::::Same here, and I'm American. I'm only sort of mentioning this because they let someone steal my credit card. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 22:50, 17 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::As mentioned, we haven't actually committed to any deal yet with them, and any ads you see are them going through the standard Project Wonderful process. They've bought ads with us before, and thus as long as they have the high bid, they're pre-approved. They're going to have the proposed first-party-products-only ad to submit to Walky sometime next week.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 23:11, 17 July 2010 (EDT)

====Guys====
There is no "contract" to "void." Their permanent ad buy hasn't STARTED. They've been advertising with those particular ads for months. You've just finally noticed them because I brought them up. We haven't even discussed what the ad space will cost them since I've been busy and they said they won't have a new ad for us for about a week anyway. So, like, chill out. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:31, 15 July 2010 (EDT)

:For months? Huh... --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 17:21, 15 July 2010 (EDT)

====And it's done====
TFsource owns our skyscraper until whenever they don't want to anymore. It's all official stuff, so everyone happy? (Yay!) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:06, 30 July 2010 (EDT)
:Can we please somehow code it to say "This ad comes with a 100% chance of not causing us headaches" beneath the ad? (Nah, not really.)
:Also, I'm happy. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 16:29, 30 July 2010 (EDT)

:Looks awesome! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:29, 30 July 2010 (EDT)
:That looks great! Nice and slick-looking. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:55, 31 July 2010 (EDT)

== Simon Furman's IDW pitch ==

So here's a thing. The following text is Simon Furman's original pitch for Transformers comics when IDW took up the license, printed in the back of the "Best of Simon Furman" hardback collection. I skimmed this a few years back when the book was released and it passed under my nose at work, but since then, we've never had any of the info on the wiki, and I've never seen any discussion of it on any forums - presumably because none of us actually BOUGHT the dang thing, since we own all these stories in multiple formats already. I borrowed the book and transcribed the pitch so that anyone interested can read it, and we can maybe actually do something with the info. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 11:01, 8 July 2010 (EDT)
:Hmm. I've never seen this before. It's pretty interesting that Furman was itching to do Cybertron , which is weird, because by the time IDW was announced as the new comic licensee, Cybertron had started. Would take awhile to get a Cybertron comic up and running, I would think. By the time it came out, it might be already too late. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 02:58, 9 July 2010 (EDT)
::It wouldn't surprise me if that's why it was modified so much. But, um, should we be duplicating this sort of material here? I mean, sure, The Best of Simon Furman wasn't the most popular book, but isn't this just copyright infringement? --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 03:18, 9 July 2010 (EDT)
:::Yeah, that was on my mind as I was transcribing it. I don't really intend to permanently house this anywhere - I just wanted to get it up so people could get a look, take in the info, maybe do something wiki-related with it, then I'd scrub it. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 11:18, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

TRANSFORMERS… A NEW DIRECTION

A Proposal For IDW

--Simon Furman--

In the (Armada/Energon) Cybertron timeline…

…UNICRON IS DESTROYED, utterly wiped out of existence by a seismic shock warhead detonated deep within its superstructure (events which would be visited retroactively in any subsequent ‘Energon’ conclusion issues).

But as one threat to Cybertron ends, another has only just begun. A rift in time and space – a massive ‘chronal’ black hole formed by the annihilation of Unicron – is threatening to suck Cybertron in, tear it apart in an internal maelstrom of deconstructed space and time. Only by anchoring the planet, via a spacebridge, to Earth’s energon core can Cybertron maintain its tenuous position, but it’s at best a quick fix. To seal the rift, they need the power of PRIMUS, the progenitor of the entire TRANSFORMERS race. But while a fragment of the dormant Primus lifeforce exists within Cybertron, the rest is lost, scattered throughout the universe, buried deep within strange, alien worlds.

Roused (from eons of chronal stasis in a dimension outside of normal space and time) by the impending cataclysm, the immortal sentinel known as Vector Prime spearheads the search for the Primus lifeforce, guiding Optimus Prime and his Autobots on a quest that will take them to aliens worlds in the farthest corners of the galaxy and beyond. But where Prime and the Autobots go… Megatron and the Decepticons are never far behind.

Clad in the armor of Unicron, fuelled by a fragment of his Spark, Megatron has become a true agent of chaos. He’s prepared to sacrifice Cybertron, Earth and any other world in order to contain and absorb the lifeforce of Primus himself, his ultimate aim to transform himself… into a living god!

And the ‘Cybertron’ timeline is not the only one to feel the effects of the destruction of Unicron. In fact… it’s one of the lucky ones.

<<In all the disparate timelines, all the myriad dimensions, there is but one Unicron. Though physical presence is limited to a single reality at any given time, it exists simultaneously in countless dimensions, shadows of its vast, ancient consciousness inextricably interwoven into the complex geometry of time and space. Its destruction in the Cybertron timeline creates ripples, which become shockwaves, which gather force, become a tidal wave of destruction. In some realities, the effect of the ‘chaos wave’ is total, instantaneous, entire timelines… wiped out. In others, the initial effect is less pronounced, a dramatic event heralding a slow descent into space/time anarchy.>>

In the G1 timeline…

…CYBERTRON IS DESTROYED! The resident Autobots and Decepticons barely have time to evacuate the planet, to eject the core of the planet and it’s precious Vector Sigma cargo (an eventuality made feasible way back when [in The War Within v3]) before the planet is torn apart, smashed into component molecules by the roiling chaos wave. Many Cybertronians don’t make it at all, and are simply wiped out. In a shockingly short time, Cybertron is gone. Forever.

Shocked, stunned, bereft of their homeworld, the remaining populous finds itself spread far and wide throughout the galaxy, seeking (in the Autobots’ case) safe harbor or (in the Decepticons’ case) new worlds to conquer… and colonise. Megatron’s Decepticons have perfecting ‘mechaforming’ technology, invasive, self-replicating machinery designed to restructure the entire geological substructure of a planet, in effect turn it into a new Cybertron. And since the Decepticons are indifferent to the presence or fate of any indigenous civilizations on the planet(s) of choice, it’s down to the Autobots to stop them… at any cost.

Earth, always a pivotal world in the G1 timeline, becomes even more of a focal battleground. Its natural resources are a potent brew that – with the right exploitation and manipulation – can be turned into energon, the lifeblood of the Transformer race. In Decepticon hands the whole world would be turned into a vast refinery, bled dry to fuel the creation of the ‘new’ Cybertron.

And Optimus Prime has an even more pressing concern. Contacted by Vector Prime (who can move within all remaining TF timelines), he is warned that the omniversal geometry is critically out of alignment. The removal of – for want of a better word – ‘evil’ has disturbed an age-old natural balance. Though it goes against every Autobot credo, they must somehow resurrect the dark force known, among other things, as Unicron! The key is the so-called ‘Decepticon Matrix’, a quasi-mythical power source spread throughout the galaxy. Said to be fragments of Unicron itself, released in some apocalyptic confrontation with Primus before the dawn of time, its retrieval and coalescence could restore the balance and dissipate the chaos wave.

Reluctantly, with grave reservations (and considerable dissent in the Autobot ranks) Prime forges an uneasy alliance with two of Unicron’s heralds, Cylonus and Scourge, both of whom are dedicated to the rebirth of their master (for different reasons). But, unknown to Prime, they have a secondary agenda, a plan to use a fragment of the Decepticon Matrix to destroy Megatron… and recreate him as the unstoppable force known as Galvatron!

<<And so, in one timeline, the Autobots seek to make Primus whole once more, while in another, they seek to resurrect the spirit of Unicron, leading ultimately to the new, universe-shaking confrontation between the two ancient forces… one that will (briefly) unite all remaining TRANSFORMERS timelines and continuities in an epic battle for survival.>>

CYBERTRON #0 (AND ONGOING)/G1 #0 (AND ONGOING)

Amidst the larger framework of the ‘chaos wave’ saga, the ongoing thrust of Cybertron is a focused series of one or two-part (largely self-contained, featuring different character assortments) adventures set on Cybertron, Earth and the key planets (Speed, Beast and Giant) that support its core quest… the search for the lifeforce of Primus. At every turn, the Autobots are confounded and frustrated by the Decepticons, but in the process forge new alliances and friendships, both on Earth and beyond. It’s a race against time… with the fate of Cybertron (and more) hanging in the balance.

The G1 title expands the scope and reach of the line, exploring wider character/conflict story arcs (while pulling in much more fan-friendly past and future continuity) and dramatically shaking the whole TRANSFORMERS mythos to its core, streamlining and redefining the sometimes confusing mass of ‘alternate’ timelines. But as with Cybertron, the focus will shift to different groups of Autobots/Decepticons on different worlds, faced with differing agendas and challenges.

The issue #0s will be mirror-images of each other, both told from the perspective of Vector Prime as he awakens to an omniverse in chaos, threatened on all fronts. His narrative will serve to encapsulate what has gone before while his actions introduce the primary cast and lay the groundwork for what is to come.

===Noticed something===

{{quote|both told from the perspective of Vector Prime as he awakens to an '''omniverse''' in chaos}}

Some use of the word [[omniverse]]. Wow. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 10:16, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

===Added it in somewheres===
I've added references to that thing at [[IDW Generation 1 continuity]] and [[Cybertron (franchise)]]. Did I do it right? --[[User:Fortress Minimus|Fortress Minimus]] 17:21, 19 July 2010 (EDT)

== Usernames ==

Our latest user [[User:Michaelbayblows|Michaelbayblows]] has what I consider to be a somewhat inflammatory username considering the how many arguments ensue regarding the live-action movies. It's probable that you would have difficulty registering on a forum with such a username. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 15:56, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

:I was thinking the same thing. We blocked some guy from registering such a name referencing Detour, why should we allow such statements against Bay? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 16:09, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

::Yeah, I also thought his name was inappropriate. I don't think personal threats would be acceptable here, particularly about such a controversial figure in Transformers fandom. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 16:10, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

:::On Wookieepedia we routinely block people for having inappropriate names. I see no reason why we shouldn't have a similar policy here. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 16:19, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

::::How he creates a new account and the old one is blocked? Some of his edits aren't too bad; I don't see why he shouldn't get a second chance. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 16:21, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::Block the old account, post a nice note explaining that we want him to stay and continue working but that he cannot use a name that is attacking/insulting any person. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 16:32, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::I am in support of this, but he should be informed via his talkpage for one full day prior to the block, for the sake of not being too harsh. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 18:04, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::I fully agree with Detour. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 18:18, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::Now we just need to find an actual admin. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 19:12, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::And set the thing right. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 21:47, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::Well, he ignored Abates. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 06:52, 25 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::::I was [[User:Michaelbayblows|Michaelbayblows]] but then I kinda stop using it because some mind find it offensive. So I am sorry for my inflammatory username. --[[User:HeyTFWiki|HeyTFWiki]] 05:17, 31 July 2010 (EDT)

== Official sources policy ==

Recently, some of us have been explaining to a user why video from a cellphone camera of the movie set cannot be taken as official sources. I was going to link to the official sources page when I realized that I do not know what it's called and cannot find it. Which brings me to this point: we actually took the time to write out and codify our what we consider to be official sources, right? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 16:22, 10 July 2010 (EDT)
:It's at [[Help:Official info]]. And next time, somebody should probably just place the <nowiki>{{scoop bastard}}</nowiki> template. (I was going to but couldn't find a good chance.) --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 16:26, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

== Disgusting ad ==
Sorry if I'm posting this at the wrong place, but is there anywhere we can complain about the ads on the wiki? Not to overstep my (very modest) bounds here or anything, but that ad with the GIANT PIMPLE on the back of the guy's neck is really off-putting... You've probably all seen it by now right? I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks this... Call me squeamish if you will, but it's really bothering me... --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] 14:40, 15 July 2010 (EDT)
:I'm with this 100%. I'm so glad I haven't eaten a thing all day, because I'd have lost my breakfast and my lunch by now. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 14:49, 15 July 2010 (EDT)
::I wouldn't mind so much if it would only pop up occassionally (then again, my gross tolerance is relatively high). But to be confronted with the world's largest zit every page I go on this wiki... Rather not. [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 14:55, 15 July 2010 (EDT)
:::I checked the PW sites - must have been outbid so I missed it. What the heck was it for? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 22:37, 15 July 2010 (EDT)
::::It was for a website ''about the world's largest pimple!'' It was [http://www.worldslargestzit.net this] I believe. SO not missing that ad. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 03:19, 16 July 2010 (EDT)

==Disamb template on calendar pages?==
So while fiddling around with the latest additions to our "day in history" pages, I got to thinking. Separating bullets with a blank line adds to our pages' sizes because that adds a "list start/stop" in the coding, yes? 
Well... does the <nowiki>{{disamb}}</nowiki> Template do that when we split that up with a blank line between them? The only real difference we ''see'' on the page is a "—" instead of a ":" after the bolded year. I fiddled with it a bit (without saving) and it looks good to me; I'll probably do up a Sandbox. If using this template doesn't add to the page size in the back-end that we don't see in the normal edit window... it sure would make it easier to read in said edit window, plus give the lists that litlte extra space between lines for readability on the normal pages. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 14:45, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
:Yes, putting spaces between {{tl|disamb}} also causes the problem whereby each item is in its own list. We can space out the more compact lists on the normal pages using css, but I don't think there's any way to space them out on the edit window due to the way MediaWiki parses stuff. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 17:43, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
::Well, that's goddamn irksome. It's too easy to get lost in a mass of unbroken text in the edit window. but if we can add jsut a little space between items in the final result, I'll be happy. Though this does beg the question of whether we should move over to using the disamb template anyway for calendars. Probably ought to be going over our disambiguation pages and bringing them up to code anyway (well, where dates are applicable). At the very least, I'm liking the use of em-dashes instead of colons. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 11:23, 22 July 2010 (EDT)

==TF Wiki Firefox Search Engine Add-On==
I'm surprised that one wasn't created a long time ago. It would make things incredibly convenient, and it can't be that hard to make. Anyone else like the idea? Anyone here have experience?
--[[User:Devastator|Devastator]] 15:27, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
:Please elaborate. What function exactly would such an add-on serve? --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:32, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
::None. You can add the wiki to the search engines list without messing with addons. Just go to a page on the wiki, and click on the down arrow in Firefox's search box. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 15:38, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
:::Wow, I must be blind. Thanks guys. There should be something on the home page encouraging visitors to do just that. Might help with traffic. --[[User:Devastator|Devastator]] 15:50, 21 July 2010 (EDT)

== In regards to expo 86. ==

Hey, Editor from Seibertron.com here. The front page list a request about "Information on the Transformers presentation at Vancouver's Expo '86".

I was about 11 then but I spent a lot of time at Expo during that summer. I don't remember any presentations per say, but I do remember that Hasbro (or at least Hasbro Canada) did have a presence. Namely they had 3-4 outdoor kiosks located around the fair, these were freestanding units with each one branded with one of four Hasbro properties, I clearly remember one being for Transformers and another for My Little Pony, the other(s) escape me at the moment but I am fairly certain that GIJoe wasn't there, and one could have been a generic Hasbro one. Additionally, one proper store was set up more for kids goods in the Red Zone near the Land Plaza and UFOH2O, that stocked the same items.

Due to the size of the units a good amount of available items were blister packs mainly Scamble City units. Boxed TF's were available but in smaller amounts (For some reason I want to say a good number of Wreck-gars and Gnaws were there) Sadly due to the location everything was more expensive than they could be found for at local stores. What was cool is that each of the kiosks regardless of how they were branded had a bit of everything, and they occasionally had loose pieces on hand. (I do remember playing with a Swindle at the actual TF Kiosk.

Don't know if that really helps but hopefully it did. Feel free to contact me thru Seibs if you have any questions.

:Hmm, that's interesting, though, it being your memories from about 24 years ago, I'm not sure how "article information"-worthy it is. Would you happen to have any photos taken of the event? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 17:25, 24 July 2010 (EDT)

::Not in my personal collection, but since writing the above I have been looking thru some online records of the fair to see if I can spot those kiosks. If I remember correctly where a couple were I might be able locate some. If I can find them I'll post here.

:::In our anon's defense, I offer the following taken from a story titled "Expo '86 a hit at luring firms through turnstiles" written by Jennifer Hunter, and published in the May 1st, 1986 edition of ''The Globe and Post'':
::::Expo is offering corporate exclusivity; there was already a soft-drink manufacturer, a car maker and a bank, but no toy company. Hasbro - with 1985 sales of $1.2-billion (U.S.) and profit of $99-million - is one of the largest toy manufacturers in North America and seemed a likely candidate to fork over dollars for a world's fair.

::::Mr. Hassenfeld and his brother Stephan could not resist the Expo slogan - Invite the World. A global showcase for Hasbro toys was too good an offer to turn down. So the Hassenfeld brothers delivered a cheque for $2-million (Canadian) to sponsor the Expo Centre geodesic dome. In return, Hasbro toys will be sold on the fair site.

::::"Bringing the name Hasbro before the public is the major reason we are participating," Mr. Hassenfeld said.

:::So it looks like his memories are probably accurate. --[[User:Tigerpaw28|Tigerpaw28]] 17:22, 25 July 2010 (EDT)

::::Hopefully '''''whomever asked for this information in the first place''''' will pop in and comment. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:53, 31 July 2010 (EDT)

== Titan Magazines ==

Is there a reason why none of the Titan Movie comics pages have Featured Character boxes? --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:47, 29 July 2010 (EDT)

:It is highly possible that the pages (or at least the sections) are still under working. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 21:52, 29 July 2010 (EDT)

::They seem pretty complete other than the featured character lists. Not sure what's up with that! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 22:26, 29 July 2010 (EDT)

:::*makes note to add Featured Character boxes to as many Titan Movie comics pages as possible sometime in the near future* --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 03:53, 30 July 2010 (EDT)

== No Hasbro Q and A? ==

Just wondering: Are we not participating in the Hasbro QandA's any more? We apparently didn't submit anything to the last one (along with a lot of other places weirdly, did Hasbro trim the list of who could ask or something?). Anyway, according to the Allspark the next set of questions are due Aug 9th, just wanted to see if anyone knew what was up? --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 08:30, 31 July 2010 (EDT)
: We didn't send in questions because they were due during BotCon and we messed up. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:24, 31 July 2010 (EDT)
::Well it's kinda understandable. We were hardly the only ones to miss it, given the slim list of sites with questions for July. Anyway, we'll have question solicitation for August open soon then? --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 10:45, 31 July 2010 (EDT)

== An article on racing ==

Not sure if this is exactly the right place to ask this, but...

Would an article on [[racing]] be appropriate for the wiki? Races do seem to crop up a lot in TF fiction. Off the top of my head, I can think of the [[Trans-Europe Express]] (G1), the race series where [[Road King]] was found (Masterforce), the nutty race where everyone tried to lure out [[Skid-Z (RID)|Skid-Z]] (RID), the one the Autobots had after Inferno died (Energon), [[Velocitron]]'s entire culture (Cybertron), and [[Street Demon]] (Animated).

Aye or nay? --[[User:Fortress Minimus|Fortress Minimus]] 13:23, 8 August 2010 (EDT)
: If there's enough races, perhaps a category would suffice? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:34, 8 August 2010 (EDT)
::Might I suggest [[Cybertronian_sport#Races|here]] as a starting point.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 13:37, 8 August 2010 (EDT)
:::Didn't know about that page. Yeah, that's more appropriate. --[[User:Fortress Minimus|Fortress Minimus]] 17:52, 8 August 2010 (EDT)

== Fan translated manga images. ==

I noticed quite a few images of manga that have fan translations in the word bubbles. It the wiki cool with that? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 18:55, 8 August 2010 (EDT)
:Well, I for one don't mind, because it lets me understand what's going on... it's official media, just translated by fans. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 18:58, 8 August 2010 (EDT)
::If the person uploading it can vouch for the accuracy of the translation, then I have no problem with it. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 19:04, 8 August 2010 (EDT)

== Movie 1 characters vs drones ==

Am I alone in thinking maybe we should split up pages like [[Longarm (Movie)]] and [[Swindle (Movie)]] into pages that cover the individual characters and the drones in their likeness separately? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:56, 12 August 2010 (EDT)

:I'd agree with that. I thought we had already done that for some of them. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 23:36, 12 August 2010 (EDT)

:::I agree with the splitting if possible. Since individual characters are much different from drones. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 02:20, 13 August 2010 (EDT)
::::Split 'em. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 11:33, 15 August 2010 (EDT)

== Reissues and rereleases ==

Which reissues deserve to be listed separately from their original release? For some reason, reissues of G1 toys have been listed separately on some pages but not on others. I think [[Hot Rod (G1)|Hot Rod]]'s toy page mentions aimsing to list all reissues separately. The 2010 [[Piranacon]] reissue is listed separately, but not the 2010 [[Predaking]]. Also, the toys rereleased in [[Universe (2003 toyline)|Universe]] are listed separately on the character pages even though they're ''completely'' unchanged, unlike some reissues of G1 figures. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 10:35, 21 August 2010 (EDT)
:I think part of that is simply older pages not having been updated since the decision was made to separate reissues (At least I'm pretty sure we are aiming to keep them separate). Newer reissues, like the Predaking, have probably been handled in the way the poster in question had seen such things done on other pages, leading to continuing inconsistency. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 10:58, 21 August 2010 (EDT)
::So, the current standard is to list releases separately? Is that on any help or policy page? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 11:12, 21 August 2010 (EDT)

== Wikia ==

Thank god we jumped ship when we did, because Wikia is planning on switching to a new skin.

[http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Your_First_Look_at_the_New_Wikia Preview]

--[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 16:43, 21 August 2010 (EDT)

:They must have switched already? Because every single Wikia site is completely effed up in IE7 now. --[[User:Salt-Man Z|Salt-Man Z]] 18:37, 26 August 2010 (EDT)
::No, they haven't. They're having technical problems with the server they use for css and images. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:12, 26 August 2010 (EDT)

== Explicitly Saying Characters Are Similar To Earlier Characters Of Same Name ==

On the [[Blackarachnia (Animated)]] talk page, [[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] is saying that characters that are homages to earlier characters of the same name need to have this pointed out, in something like the form "Blackarachnia (Animated) is based on the original Blackarachnia (BW), who first appeared in the Beast Wars franchise."
* Is this a good idea, as it will help people who are new to Transformers learn about the history of the brand?
* Is it unnecessary to point out that characters are similar to earlier characters of the same name, since it's very common, and would involve altering lots of pages?
* Other?
[[User:JW|JW]] 19:18, 26 August 2010 (EDT)
:Blackarachnia (Animated) has a lot of similarities and also a lot of differences with Blackarachnia (BW). I don't think I'd go so far as to say she was "based on" Blackarachnia (BW). Swindle (Animated), on the other hand, is a direct transplant of Swindle (G1). - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 19:47, 26 August 2010 (EDT)

::It may seem like a total DUH kind of thing to all the long-time TF fans who inhabit this place, but for our readers, such information seems totally relevant and useful. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 21:05, 26 August 2010 (EDT)
::There's a friggin' disambig right up top in a separated box for... all the charcaters who have the same name! Wow! And we're talking about hundreds upon hundreds of pages where we'd have to do this. It's not quite "This is a picture of Megatron" level DUH, but it's in the ballpark. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 23:53, 26 August 2010 (EDT)
:::I honestly don't understand what the disambigs have to do with this. The only information they are there to convey is "there are other characters with this name, go to this separate page for a list." They don't in any way tell you "this character who's article you're reading now was based on this other one." Especially since many characters who share the name don't actually have any other relationship to each other. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 00:15, 27 August 2010 (EDT)
::::Characters with the same name as each other within the same brand are expected to be similar (if not identical) to each other, with older ones serving as inspiration for later ones. If characters of the same name are not similar would seem to be more notable than if they are similar. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:09, 27 August 2010 (EDT)
:::::The Prowls, Scavengers, Razorclaws, and Bonecrushers tend to have very little to do with one another. Note that the main page for the Animated franchise points out that so many of the characters are clear homages to their earlier-series namesakes too. Since it has been over 10 years since the first Blackarachnia did anything, I don't see the harm in putting a one-liner at the top of BA-Animated's "Notes" section saying she's totally based on the first one. Kil is right--it wouldn't be "just so obvious" to a 14-year-old who was brought in by the movies and Animated. To a newcomer, why would it be especially obvious that Animated Ironhide and Blitzwing are based on namesakes from Cold War-era cartoons they never saw? Where's the harm in just one line? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 13:29, 27 August 2010 (EDT)
::::::I have to agree that it's not going to be obvious to someone coming in from the Movie or Animated, or even the Unicron Trilogy that many of the homages are homages. Especially Ratchet, given the drastically different color scheme Movie Ratchet (Rescue Ratchet toys notwithstanding) has compared to the others. I admit, it might seem a litte weird to make what seems to us to be such an obvious note on so many pages but if our goal is to make this Wiki accessible and informative to fans of all levels then I think it's necessary to do so.
::::::And for BA's case, I think it additionally warrants mentioning Binaltech Blackwidow as a direct inspiration. Because even though most of the design cues come originally from her first and TM2 incarnations, I don't think you get to Animated BA with the combination of attributes (and the black gloves) without going through the Binaltech version first. --[[User:Tigerpaw28|Tigerpaw28]] 15:06, 27 August 2010 (EDT)
::::::I feel it's necessary to point out that a newcomer is probably not going to get to the [[Blackarachnia (Animated)]] page without passing through [[Blackarachnia (disambiguation)]] first. So, they're gonna be made aware of the Beast Wars character. (Sure, they might get there through other means, but it's not the most likely route.)
::::::However, if the consensus is leaning toward allowing notes of the form "Foo is based on Foo of same name," how do we decide which characters need it? Just from Animated, here's all the characters who visually homage previous characters of the same name: Arcee, Big Bang Prime, Blackarachnia, Blackout, Blitzwing, Blurr, Botanica, Brawn, Bumblebee, Bumper, Cliffjumper, Cosmos, Cyclonus, Dai Atlas, Devcon, Flip Sides, Grimlock, Highbrow, Hot Shot, Hot Spot Major, Impactor Major, Ironhide, Jazz, Laserbeak, Longrack Major, Mainframe, Mixmaster, Octus, Omega Supreme, Omega SPREEM, Optimus Prime, Perceptor, Powerglide, Primal Major, Railspike Major, Ratbat, Ratchet, Reflector, Rodimus Prime, Rosanna, Seaspray, Silverbolt Major, Sky-Byte, Soundwave, Spittor, Springer, Starscream (Thundercracker, Skywarp, Ramjet, Dirge, Thrust, Sunstorm), Steeljaw, Straxus, Strika, Swindle, Swoop, Tracks, Warpath, Wheeljack, Zaur. (I left out the Witwickys and some of the Bumblebee-clones.) Do we add that note to ''all'' of them? [[User:JW|JW]] 15:49, 27 August 2010 (EDT)
In the absence of any strong support either way on this issue, I'm going to assume our current implicit policy holds: When a new character is based on an old character of the same name, explictly pointing it out is neither required nor prohibited. [[User:JW|JW]] 11:14, 22 September 2010 (EDT)

== Continuity note ==

Which articles don't need one. [[Vector Prime]] doesn't but [[Nexus Prime]] and [[Alpha Trion (Prime)]] ''do''. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 12:42, 28 August 2010 (EDT)
:...what? --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 13:32, 28 August 2010 (EDT)
::He means as multiversal singularities the One, Primus, Unicron, Prima, Fallen and Vector don't have continuity notes at the top indicating which franchise they're from. Nexus is just an interesting case, and frankly all the Alpha Trions should be merged. [[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] 13:43, 28 August 2010 (EDT)
::: So, any of 'em need removing? (Also, when did I ever admitmy gender either way?) [[User:Item42|Item42]] 14:11, 28 August 2010 (EDT)
::::How about we wait until we have more information before dealing with any of this? I swear. We know so very little about how this new continuity family works with (or doesn't) what's come before, and sweeping changes like merging Alpha Trions may end up being messily reverted. How about we hold the hell off until we learn more. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 14:21, 28 August 2010 (EDT)
::::What about [[Nexus Prime]]'s article? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 14:31, 28 August 2010 (EDT)
:::::What's '''wrong''' with it? Seriously? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:37, 28 August 2010 (EDT)
:I'm asking about the need for a continuity identifier,which, as pointed out above is absent in some [[multiversal singularity|similar]] articles. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 15:18, 28 August 2010 (EDT)
:: Those guys aren't made out of other guys. I am wondering very hard why this is an issue. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:37, 28 August 2010 (EDT)
::: I just want to know how things are supposed to be done so I could do said things properly. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 15:46, 28 August 2010 (EDT)

== Malware warning ==

I just got a malware warning when I tried to load the page, seemingly resulting from the css file included from [[User:Derik|Derik]]'s site emopanda. I'm taking the call to that script out of common.css until we can get it sorted. Most of the css is also in a local file that's already being included anyway, so hopefully nothing should break. The malware warning refers me to [http://safebrowsing.clients.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?site=http://emopanda.com/&client=googlechrome&hl=en-US this page]. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 04:15, 29 August 2010 (EDT)

== Some Wikipedia user ==

From [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:NotARealWord&oldid=381724818 my Wikipedia talk page]
{{note|Yes, I have different usernames on different wikis.}}

{{quote|I take it you don't know the TFWiki very well. It's server is run by [[David Willis|a guy]] who blocked Wikipedia Transformers editors from it He has publically stated that he started that server to have a place away from Wikipedia to make his articles. Anyone who edits in a proper Wikipedia style with limiting things to notable topics with reliable sources (which is me, by his standards) gets reverted and blocked|
User:Mathewignash|
}}

Okay, User:Mathewignash seems to be responsible for a lot of the TF fancruft on [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Transformers Wikipedia]. Also has been trying to "save" articles nominated for deletion due to lack of notability. Makes me wonder:
* Is this person somebody the admins here are familiar with?
* How do I respond to that statement against TFWiki? Considering I was pretty welcomed here when I started. Should I point out the users who regularly use ''both'' sites?
* Is there some small corner of the [[fandom]] that likes buttloads of fancruft-y TF articles, but have something against using TFWiki?
* Is this person anything to do with the people asking TFWiki to be more like [[Wikipedia]], despite how its rules are '''very''' unsuitable for a TF-specific wiki? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 14:52, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

:[[User:Primal Rage]]. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 14:53, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

:Oh yes, the community here is very familiar with Mr. Ignash. He and Walky have a long history of feuding. Walky has stated that he came here to escape Ignash in particular, not wikipedia editors in general. In the few times I've run across Ignash he seems rather jerky, virtually everyone here seems welcoming to me. Don't know about point three. Not sure if Ignash has connections to any of the various people who don't like the wiki's tone, but your point about wikipedia being a bad model for a TF specific site is a good one. While we do strive for proper citations here, "notability" is not a valid criterion for this site. Few TF characters/concepts are truly notable in a real world sense. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 14:56, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

::Thank you, I try to treat wikis differently since they have different purposes. What about the questions in bullet-point number two? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 15:01, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

:::Your suggestion of mentioning people on both sites is a good idea, I edit on wikipedia under the same alias but much less frequently and even less substantially. Don't know about anyone else. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:07, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

::::I do. Rarely and with a different name, but I do. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 15:13, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

:::Ignash is not worth responding to. Let him play in his turd-filled sandbox. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 15:21, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

::::Correction. Nobody who thinks that Wikipedia is better than TFWiki is worth responding to. I have learned this the hard way. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:31, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

:::::What about that bit about a small corner of the fandom? User:Dream Focus seems to also fit that description. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 15:43, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

::::::Yes, there is a small corner of the fandom that likes the Wikipedia-style TF articles. However, I would like to know is where the hell you are getting this stuff about Dream Focus fitting that description. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:47, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

:::::::To Item42, read the archives on Matthewignash's user talk page at wikipedia. The man can't even follow the rules that he exhorts as superior to ours. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:49, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

::::::::Please, do point the above out to him. I'd do it myself but they blocked my IP because I decided that Wikipedia was a piece of crap and went on a massive, 40-account vandalism rampage. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 16:04, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

::::::From what I can tell, Dream Focus is just against deletion of Wikipedia articles under non-notability, and may not be active in Transformers fandom. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:20, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

:The issue, simply, is not with "other Wikipedia users" - it is with Ignash himself. There is a ''reason'' the Transformers articles on Wikipedia are such a jumbled mess of copy-pasted partially-overly-detailed summaries, gross generalizations and list after list of Optimus Prime's appearances in ''Family Guy'' and ''Robot Chicken'' that lack any kind of consistency between each other and he is mainly it. Nearly everyone who ever tried to edit constructively there came here because he never compromises on his stupid, stupid way of organizing an article, and we neither want nor require his presence here. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 16:35, 30 August 2010 (EDT)

::It reminds me that I moved to Wikia (long before the Exodus) as soon as I found the TFwiki, and soon after that, I left Wikipedia(TF-related) as soon as I found TFwiki has more strict rules than Wikipedia does in some way (for example, we won't see any leak or unofficial information in TFwiki). (And yes, I can't stand some users on Wikipedia.) Plus, I feel Wikipedia is more harsh on fictional-related articles sometimes. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 03:41, 31 August 2010 (EDT)

:::Once again, correction. It doesn't really matter what the subject is, it just matters if someone has an axe to grind and if there's an admin who is willing to completely ignore common sense so that the people holding the axes can come out on top. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:19, 31 August 2010 (EDT)

::::Well, now it looks like Ignash can't always [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Transformers/Proposed_centralized_transformers_discussion come out on top]. Seems mostly him and Dream Focus trying to stop the article deletions. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 12:15, 31 August 2010 (EDT)

I think most of us at some point or other already came to the conclusion that Wikipedia was never going to have in-depth Transformers coverage. I'm pretty at-peace with that, because it was never realistic to think that they'd ever do it in the granularity that a dedicated wiki like this place can afford to do. Ignash came over here at one point, and I more or less went to bat for him, which I realize in retrospect was a mistake. The guy's very set in his ways, and he's poison to collaborative projects.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 11:37, 2 September 2010 (EDT)

:A general purpose encyclopedia (Wikipedia) cannot and should not have the same depth of coverage as dedicated references (tfwiki). Just as you wouldn't expect articles on every minor Shakespearean character on Wikipedia, you shouldn't expect every minor TF to have an article there. As far as going to bat for Ignash, I actually agreed with you standing up for him. Everyone deserves a chance to contribute. The problem was that he didn't want to contribute and collaborate and work within the guidelines here, because of that he is banned. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:42, 2 September 2010 (EDT)

::[[Wikipedia]] has just '''way''' too much TF fancruft. The big-time deletion "campaign" going on right now should be able to fix ''some'' of that. Hopefully. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 10:12, 3 September 2010 (EDT)

:::Dream Focus [http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/Dream_Focus is on Wikia]. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 09:19, 6 September 2010 (EDT)

===Wikipedia's TF Project===
[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:WikiProject Transformers|Wikipedia:WikiProject Transformers]] 666 articles. Heh [[User:Item42|Item42]] 09:26, 6 September 2010 (EDT)

== Dimension-hopping ==

Should that get an article? The "Fiction" sections on [[continuity]] and [[multiverse]] seem mainly about that. Comparing those sections, it seems they're somewhat... redundant. Maybe a separate article about dimension-hopping would be better. Maybe the article should also cover characters moving within the same [[continuity family]]. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 10:34, 3 September 2010 (EDT)
:The "multiverse" really only appears in fiction when dimension-hopping is involved, so that's why the fiction section is all about dimension hopping. "Continuity" probably doesn't need a fiction section since it is pretty much a wiki thing explaining how the wiki is organized. You are right that we should talk about dimension-hopping in the same continuity. There is a mini-multiverse in the G1 cartoon episode [[Madman's Paradise]] that should be commented on. How does [[Menonia]] relate to the [[multiverse]]? That's a good question. I think that can be explored on the "multiverse" page though. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 10:53, 3 September 2010 (EDT)
::Would it be okay if I (or anybody else) removes the "fiction" section of "[[continuity]]" and puts up that information in "[[multiverse]]"? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 14:52, 4 September 2010 (EDT)

== User admonition templates ==

Is there a list of the various templates that can be placed on a user page to give them advice (editing tips, spelling, no scoops, no fanon, etc)? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 11:27, 3 September 2010 (EDT)
:[[:Category:User notice templates]]. There are some in there that rarely get used! --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 11:32, 3 September 2010 (EDT)
::Thanks, NCZ. I could not remember the "correct english" one and couldn't find a page that had one. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 11:58, 3 September 2010 (EDT)

== Categories ==

Can anyone explain to me why categories that apply to specific toys are put on the general article for the character that toy represents and not on the image of the particular toy? Why not put the category tags on the picture's own page? For example, [[Starscream (Movie)]] is not actually a Kmart exclusive, the Nebular Starscream toy is. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 09:33, 4 September 2010 (EDT)

== Links that overexplain jokes ==

I got reverted on [[Soundwave (ROTF)]] because apparently, adding links to explain captions ruins them. (I didn't remove or change the joke, just added the links. )Should that be on the official caption policy? . Although, I'm rather concerned that more casual readers might not understand references (like "[[JaAm|hump that tank]]" for example), and I don't intend to confuse people. So really, is it so bad to explain jokes (through wikilinks) for the sake of people with little TF knowledge? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 20:08, 4 September 2010 (EDT)
:Well, y'know what they say - "If you have to ''explain'' a joke, there ''is'' no joke." Personally, I've always loathed joke-explaining word-linking, especially when it's to something off-site. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 20:30, 4 September 2010 (EDT)
::Personally, I think that adding those links introduce casual wiki-readers to more TF stuff, and that content should be written with more clueless readers in mind. Although, if it's just ''that bad'', maybe it should be mentioned on the policy page. It's easier to avoid doing things when you know you should. Also, what about on-site linking, like potholing "hump that tank" to [[jaAm]]? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 20:50, 4 September 2010 (EDT)
Anyway, can I (or anyone else) do at least a ''little bit'' of on-site caption linking?[[User:Item42|Item42]] 18:19, 13 September 2010 (EDT)
:No. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 19:43, 13 September 2010 (EDT)
::Then can someone please put that up on [[Transformers Wiki:Caption]] so that people can be sure that's what the community as a whole wants, and not just the two people who responded here? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 14:55, 14 September 2010 (EDT)

== Next Hasbro Q&A Questions due Mon! ==

According to the Allspark the next round of Hasbro Q&A questions are due 1 week from today (Sept 13). I know we havn't even recieved the last set of answers back yet. But shouldn't we set up a page to take question submissions for next Mon. --[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 14:33, 6 September 2010 (EDT)

:Hey, how come we haven't gotten answers from the [[Hasbro Q&A/August 2010: Question submission|most recent one]] yet? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 17:20, 6 September 2010 (EDT)

::Because Hasbro's a busy place and they haven't had a chance to get them back to us yet. They're usually a week or two behind their estimated return date, nothing new there. This IS the first time I can recall where the next questions might be due before the last set of answers appears though. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 07:31, 7 September 2010 (EDT)

== RFC Wiki Spotlight ==

What-ho. If any wiki contributors happen to be listeners of [http://www.tfradio.net Radio Free Cybertron], you may have noticed that I've started doing a small spot on the show called the "Wiki Spotlight", highlighting an interesting article each week and drawing attention to it. Thus far I've just done our featured articles of the last two months, but I figured I'd open up the floor to any and all random suggestions as to what articles - big or small, well-known or obscure - deserve a mention. Speak up! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 08:07, 11 September 2010 (EDT)
:[[Angry Archer]] and [[Thor]]. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:48, 11 September 2010 (EDT)
::[[Sky-Byte (RID)]]! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:31, 11 September 2010 (EDT)
:::[[Rorza, the Rocket-cycle Racer from Rigel III]]! -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 19:56, 11 September 2010 (EDT)
::::[[Shockwave (G1)]] looks pretty good to me. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 15:38, 14 September 2010 (EDT)
:::::[[Wheelie (G1)]], [[Scale]] and [[B.O.T. (episode)]] might be fun to feature. Can I also suggest that a link to the article mentioned be placed on the tfradio.net post accompanying the podcast, because it'll be easier for the listeners. :) --[[User:Abates|abates]] 22:48, 14 September 2010 (EDT)

A while back I tried to edit the [[fandom]] page to mention the Podcasts around at the time (TFWIRE, WTF@TFW and the joke that was the Tformers podcast at that time. But TPTB wiped the whole lot! That was a pretty big "Screw you!" to the podcasts. [[User:Drmick|Drmick]] 15:21, 16 September 2010 (EDT)

== Toy patents ==

User: Sarujo at Wikipedia posted a list of TF related patents. I have put them in [[User: Khajidha/sandbox|my sandbox]]. I've found and corrected a few errors/misidentifications already. Is this material useful or was it all already known? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 08:30, 13 September 2010 (EDT)
:Interesting stuff. Do you mind if I go through the unknowns and put names on the ones I can identify? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 08:35, 13 September 2010 (EDT)
::Feel free, that's why I posted the link. I won't have time today to give it the thorough going over it deserves. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 08:39, 13 September 2010 (EDT)
:::Thanks. And that, as they say, is that. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 09:22, 13 September 2010 (EDT)
::::They still need to be resorted. Warpath wasn't a Microman mold and it would probably be useful to have the Scramble City molds separated. Beyond that, I don't know. I don't want to get it so sorted that it becomes LESS useful. If nothing else, I figured the notes about inventors/designers might be data otherwise hard to come by. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 09:32, 13 September 2010 (EDT)
:::::Anyone willing to go trolling through patent listings? We seem to be missing those for several members of various combiner teams. Perhaps they can be found by cross referencing those we do have? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 10:54, 13 September 2010 (EDT)
::::::The designer data ALONE makes these worthwhile. That's awesome information. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 11:28, 13 September 2010 (EDT)
:::::::I've conveyed our thanks to Sarujo over at Wikipedia. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:18, 13 September 2010 (EDT)

== Photos of toys ==
I found [[Wikipedia:Template:Non-free 3D art|this]] bit about copyright law.
*Does that mean ''every'' photo of an official TF figure needs a note like "character and toy design under copyright by [[HasTak]]"?
*Should this site also make a template like that?
*Would this be a good reason/excuse to copy photos from other fansites since ''your own photos'' (and anyone else's) would still have to go under fair use?
-[[User:Item42|Item42]] 15:47, 14 September 2010 (EDT)
: I think that specifically applies to non-US countries, particularly IIRC Germany (Nevermore, confirm/deny?). As the Wiki is hosted in the US it isn't really relevant... yet? [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 06:56, 15 September 2010 (EDT)
::Actually, the Wikipedia template in that link says:
{{quote|This is a two-dimensional representation of a copyrighted sculpture, statue or any other three-dimensional work of art. As such it is a derivative work of art, and per [http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#106 US Copyright Act of 1976, § 106(2)] whoever holds copyright of the original has the exclusive right to authorize derivative works. 

Per [http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107 § 107] it is believed that reproduction for criticism, comment, teaching and scholarship constitutes fair use and does not infringe copyright.}}
So it ''is'' US-relevant. Although, looking at the [[Wikipedia:Template talk:Non-free 3D art#totallydisputed|talk page]], it seems that said law(s) might not be something to take seriously. So, no stealing toy photos? If not, can I try to get the clearly stolen ones (like one section of [[:Image:20thAnniversary OptimusPrimesm.jpg|this]]) replaced? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 04:44, 19 September 2010 (EDT)
:IIRC the law in question came up during (of all things) Batman Forever, when a copyrighted piece of industrial statue donated to a city as used as a shooting location in the film, got integrated into the sets, showed up on t-shirts and promotional cups, etc... the studio ended up paying millions in damages.
:Generally when I (rarely) take toy photos, I note that the '''photo''' is released to the public domain but ''Character likeness is {{c}} Hasbro 20XX'', making it clear that the ''photo'' is free, but its subject may not be. (Making a sculpture based on the photo would, obviously, present copyright issues.) Character likeness, IMO, seems like a better phrase to use than design since with multiple toys over decades, that's really what's being protected here-- not the transformation schema of mold D-22B.
:Part of what it means is that virtually '''no''' images on the wiki are eligible for "Copyleft," the status of absolute-public-domain with no entailment or restrictions. (This is not unique. A photo of your own family with a Coke ad in the background isn't eligible for Copyleft either.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 09:04, 19 September 2010 (EDT)
::Derik, how do you release something in public domain if you can't release it under copyleft? Also, does this mean that it's okay to steal toy photos? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 04:04, 21 September 2010 (EDT)

== Galvatron ==
So in [http://www.asmzine.com/geekly-rewind/2010/09/14/hasbro-transformers-qa-august-2010-answers/ ASM's Q&A response], Hasbro pretty much officially says to consider Galvatron a separate character from Megatron for all practical purposes. How do we tackle this? [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 06:56, 15 September 2010 (EDT)
:I interpret it as saying that in inducting Megatron, Galvatron is not being inducted by connection, since [[Megatron (Animated)|not all Megatrons have become Galvatrons]], and some interpretations of Galvatron (like IDW) are separate from Megatron. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 07:00, 15 September 2010 (EDT)
::Yeah, I don't think this really changes anything about the way we've already got Galvy covered. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 07:14, 15 September 2010 (EDT)

== Excessive Trivia Sections ==

Ok, a few days ago I attempted to clean up some trivia sections. I realize in hindsight I was tired and being a wanker and was removing valuable information, and I apologize for that. However, I think some of our trivia could definitely stand to be integrated into the articles themselves, especially notes like "This character's Universe toy was..." or "in the Energon comic, so-and so was completely different". I would like to integrate these but I was hoping to get an opinion on this, since I went about it wrong once already. Thoughts? -- [[User:Rideonshootingstarxx|Rideonshootingstarxx]] 12:44, 22 September 2010 (EDT)
:Agreed. The Notes sections (shouldn't be Trivia anymore) are for information that doesn't fit elsewhere. If there is a logical place to put it, move the information there. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:58, 22 September 2010 (EDT)

== Editing Drift's related materials ==
Actually, this would cover whatever anyone of us have a '''large''' dislike of, but yeah. This is a wiki, where we're supposed to be informative and be able to present the info in a fun way. I'm not entirely sure of how objective we can be (humor aside), but the whole kerfluffle on Drift's mini and cameos showing in his mini is making me worried on the attitudes of certain editors that could easily descend into a editing/name-calling/accusation war. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 21:39, 23 September 2010 (EDT)
:My position is the Wiki doesn't have to be ''objective'', so long as it isn't ''unreasonable''. There are plenty of flaws in Drift and Shane McCarthy's work to poke fun of -- there's no reason to create ones that aren't true.
:I was re-reading Drift #1 and happened to notice he DID suffer damage from those laser blasts while fleeing. I remembered that note on the Wiki joking that he was "laser-proof", so I removed it. I also posted on the Talk page explaining why. Detour restored the Note several times anyway, even though it was false as written. He eventually tried to re-write it, adding something about Deadlock surviving blasts that blew off Jetstorm's head earlier. Nowhere in the comic did Jetstorm's head get blown off. Drench's did, notCarnivac's did, but Jetstorm was fine. It just shows that Detour doesn't care about being accurate so long as he's not giving an inch on anything Anti-McCarthy on the Wiki.
:So really -- can't we be ''better'' than that? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] 22:05, 23 September 2010 (EDT)
::Well, I'm pretty sure I've said this before, but I really think Detour shouldn't be allowed to edit anything connected to McCarthy. And I'm pretty much branded an irrational anti-McCarthy troll on the IDW boards, so I think this is saying something. I'm first in line to complain when ''he deserves it'', this sort of stuff is just petty and weakens the valid criticism by association. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 22:25, 23 September 2010 (EDT)
::So because I mixed up Drench and Jetstorm's name, I'm now "making stuff up"? Now who's being irrational? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 00:39, 24 September 2010 (EDT)
:::Please try to be accurate when editing articles. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 02:57, 24 September 2010 (EDT)
::::Yeah, I don't think you really comprehend this discussion and the situation leading up to it, Item42. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 04:17, 24 September 2010 (EDT)
:::::Um, people generally hate [[Drift (G1)|Drift]], this wiki's editors want to have reliable articles, and Detour got stuff mixed up, which people blame on his anti-Drift-ism. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 05:53, 24 September 2010 (EDT)

== External Links ==

Similar to the whole business of changing all the "Trivia" sections into "Notes" sections, this is just a heads up for anyone who wants to chip in for a mundane task: if you ever see a link to TFU.info (or a similar toy site) in the External Links section of a character's page, relocating it to that character's Toys section would be super-awesome. (And if the External Links section subsequently becomes empty, get rid of it.) I wouldn't really describe this as a task with much urgency behind it, but it will make characters' pages look consistent, and consistency looks nice. It's really a minor edit that's easy and quick to do, and I'd appreciate some help in this fiasco. An example of how this is supposed to look like can be found at [[Optimus Primal/toys|Optimus Primal's toy section]]. So keep an eye out while you're bored and clicking that "Random Page" button. :) --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] 12:37, 26 September 2010 (EDT)
:I've been trying to do these whenever I come across one. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:44, 26 September 2010 (EDT)
==Who hosts your wiki now==
Wikia is making more unpopular changes, [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Your_First_Look_at_the_New_Wikia] with a new skin. Your site was mentioned as one site which said "f--- you wikia" and left, which I respect so much, and would like to emulate.

I am wondering who is hosing your wikia, and how much does it cost? Thank you. [[User:Adamtheclown|Adamtheclown]] 17:12, 28 September 2010 (EDT)