MediaWiki - User contributions [en]

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2012-06-19T03:18:35Z

Botch: /* Technical Contact (and passwords) */

__NEWSECTIONLINK__

This is the place for discussion of topics that affect the entire wiki. Some topics that would ordinarily be here have merited their own pages:

{{chapters|title=Specific Discussion Subjects|align=left|content=
<div class="list-header">'''Moving From Wikia:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving|Arriving]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving|Leaving]]
* [[Transformers Wiki:Community Portal/Complaints|Complaints]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''New Ad Policy:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki:Ads|Ads]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Bookworm Database-Crash:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central|Damage Control Central]]
* [[Project:Bookworm Crash]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving2|Leaving Take 2]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Server Move:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving2|Arriving Take 2]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Relicensing:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Relicensing|Relicensing]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Dealing With Vandalism:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Vandalism|Vandalism]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''GoBots Sister Wiki:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/GoBots|Discussion on the place of GoBots in this wiki]]
}}<br/>

{{:{{FULLPAGENAMEE}}/Archive}}


== TF:Prime jump-fight factoid ==

I've just started to watch Prime, and so far every episode I've seen has had someone do a dramatic jump slowed down jump before landing on someone they are fighting, (and sometimes the camera). It's quirky enough that it's stood out, and I was wondering if it's worth adding to the episode guides? I just wanted to know now because I'm going to be watching the whole of season one over the next few days, and it's easier if I know now than if it's added later. Failing that, is there anything else that people desperatly want added to the Prime episode guides that I should be looking out for? [[User:LiamK|LiamK]] 17:31, 23 January 2012 (EST)
:There is a certain level of ridiculous info you can get away with adding if you're a regular contributor doing serious and consistent work on the pages, and you handle it with sufficient comedic value. Ref: [[Enter the Nightbird|Brawn vs. Soundwave]], [[Countdown to Extinction (episode)|What Makes Starscream the Leader?]], etc. This could conceivably qualify as well, but approach with caution. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 21:22, 23 January 2012 (EST)
::Fair enough. It wasn't just going to be an adding silly jokes because oh ha ha I think I'm hilarious. I was going to add anything missing to the relevent pages as well. It's just that 5 episodes in, we've had at least 4 dramatic jumps into the camera, one dramatic jump away from the camera, and several semi-dramatic jumps off to the side. It's hilarious when characters like Bulkhead are apparently able to jump 500 feet into the air. If Springer ever shows up in this continuity family, he's gonna reach orbit.[[User:LiamK|LiamK]] 19:59, 25 January 2012 (EST)

== Expandible voice actor lists ==

There's been some noise about some of the voice actor lists getting too long and the need for a way to have them hidden unless the user expands them. I've done some test code which is [http://www.aldenbates.com/vatest.html currently hosted externally] but is easily converted into something that will work on the wiki. Currently tested on Firefox 9 and 10, Internet Explorer 6 and 8, Chrome 16, and Opera 11. Feedback, anyone? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 23:41, 31 January 2012 (EST)
:Although I was expecting a show/hide like how Wikipedia does its navigation templates, I don't mind this. Still needs a "hide" option, if that's possible. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 23:46, 31 January 2012 (EST)
::I've added in a hide option. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 00:21, 1 February 2012 (EST)
:::If you set up a <nowiki>{{voiceactors}}</nowiki> template it'd be easy to hide the 'extended' cast names and have them show up automatically if you mouse over. '''<tt><nowiki>{{voiceactors|DEFAULT-TO-VISIBLE|DEFAULT-TO-INVISIBLE}}</nowiki></tt>'''
:::It wouldn't even require Javascript, it could be pure CSS. Simpler is better, IMO. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:26, 1 February 2012 (EST)
::::I kinda dislike the idea of it opening on mouse-over, because it can have unexpected effects on the layout of the rest of the page if you're not paying attention to where you're moving your mouse pointer. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:32, 7 February 2012 (EST)
:::::I dislike mouse-over anything. Hide/show is a better interface. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 18:48, 7 February 2012 (EST)
::::::Add a third dislike vote for mouse-over. If we do this which (if any) voice actors should be visible without clicking? Only the primary English performer? All English performers? All English and Japanese? None? I vote for none. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 19:40, 7 February 2012 (EST)
:::::::I vote for whatever hides the German voice actors. I'd put the English and Japanese actors on a higher tier of importance, but I'm not opposed to hiding them. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 19:48, 7 February 2012 (EST)
:::::::I think English and Japanese should always be shown, as they are the two biggest uh... markets? Whatever. Hide everything else, and DEFINITELY make the reveal a deliberate CLICK, not a mouseover. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:56, 7 February 2012 (EST)
Can we have this template now? I think everybody agrees that the extraneous VAs should be hidden. If people want to hide English and Japanese VAs, then that can be further discussed. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 10:48, 14 February 2012 (EST)

:[[Template:va]] (Should it be vas?)
:CSS entties which need to be added to the master file are as follows:
.tt1-voiceactorlist .tt1-extraneousFuckers{
display:none;
}
.tt1-voiceactorlist:hover .tt1-extraneousFuckers{
display:inline;
font-size:smaller;
}
.tt1-voiceactorlist.tt1-more:after{
content: "more";
padding-left:.5em;
font-size:smaller;
color:#999999;
}
.tt1-voiceactorlist:hover.tt1-more:after{
content: none;
}

:Styles are visible now if you've got [[User:Derik/kired tools|Kired Tools]] installed. Alternately you can paste the above into [[Special:Mypage/monacobook.css|your css file]] to get a look at it in action.

:If you want to make it Javascript that's beyond my remit, talk to one of the tech-guys. (Also I think it's a bad idea, but I'm against modifying the DOP for presentational purposes when there's already a markup language intended to control presentation: CSS. The wiki is currently Javascript 'light', I prefer to keep it that way.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:21, 14 February 2012 (EST)
::Why does it say "hiding the non English/Japanese voiceactors unless the user chooses to mouse over the list", I thought we had decided to make it use a click? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 14:19, 14 February 2012 (EST)
::# I don't have the authority or access to implement that.
::# I think it's a terrible idea.
:::By all means, feel free to install the CSS styles (some CSS styles will be required regardless) and see what you think of this implementation.
:::The underlying HTML will be the same for a Javascript implementation anyway. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 15:13, 14 February 2012 (EST)
So, er, did we come to a decision on either of these methods? I have to admit I kinda forgot about it until now. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 02:13, 5 March 2012 (EST)
:I think consensus is to use clicks, not mouse-over, despite Derik's protests. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 04:13, 13 March 2012 (EDT)

== Facebook chat ==

Did the wiki have anyone at the TF Prime Facebook chat? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:38, 6 February 2012 (EST)

==Moving (Prime)/(WFC)/(RB)/(FOC) to (Aligned)==
Considering that characters are part of the Aligned continuity family, like how [[Megatron (Animated)]] belong to the Animated continuity family and [[Megatron (G1)]] belongs to the Generation 1 continuity family.
:No, that's not how we do things. Disambiguations are made by franchise of origin, hence why it's [[Megatron (G1)]], but [[Terrorsaur (BW)]] rather than Terrorsaur (G1), or why it's [[Ironhide (Energon)]] rather than Ironhide (UT). This has been discussed ad infinitum but the consensus remains the same. The only exception has been that characters who debuted in WFC but also appear in Prime get (Prime) because of the slight iffyness of the Aligned family. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 10:26, 8 April 2012 (EDT)
::(Edit conflict'd by Detour) I don't think we have an especially good, logical reason for why we do that with Aligned characters, other than that it simply feels very "wrong" to label a character with a prominent, regular fictional appearance in the ''Prime'' cartoon with a disambig based on their cameo appearance in a video game tie-in novel. Honestly, given that odd nature of the whole "Aligned" idea and the fact we're already breaking our standard with this continuity family's characters ''anyway'', I'm not entirely opposed to just using (Aligned) as a much handier, self-explanatory disambig, but I don't know if anyone would agree. It ''would'' feel odd, for instance, to label the Rescue Bots with that tag. And Bot Shots are a tremendous pain in the arse - it's so annoying when we have to create articles for Aligned Roadbuster and Topspin and whoever when the Bot Shots are just clearly the movieverse characters. The whole Aligned thing can sometimes be a real wiki-headache. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 10:32, 8 April 2012 (EDT)
:::Why DON'T they just get inserted into the Movie characters sections, then? [This thing applies to a lot of Hasbro's "fuzzier" lines of late, really - stuff's matched up with what other characters in the line are part of rather than just including them in an existing article for the version they're designed after]. - [[User:Mammalian Verisimilitude|Mammalian Verisimilitude]] 10:41, 8 April 2012 (EDT)
::::I think treating Bot Shots as part of Aligned is somewhat dubious. Is there a reason it can't be viewed as using characters from multiple continuity families? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 11:00, 8 April 2012 (EDT)
:::::We already discussed this [[Talk:Bot Shots|here]]. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:59, 8 April 2012 (EDT)
::::::We do that so we don't have to pick nits over where the characters belong. Bot Shots Optimus Prime could fit many of his various incarnations. I disagree with renaming them to (Aligned), somewhat because all of the (WFC) guys will eventually be moved to (Prime), anyway. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 05:48, 10 April 2012 (EDT)
But should (Prime)/(WFC)/(RB)/(FOC) be renamed (Aligned) or not?--[[User:Finister2|Finister2]] 05:43, 10 April 2012 (EDT)
:No. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 11:29, 10 April 2012 (EDT)
::Why?--[[User:Finister2|Finister2]] 13:55, 10 April 2012 (EDT)
:::It's already been explained why. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 14:40, 10 April 2012 (EDT)

== Universal, properly-translated names of the Japanese Beast Wars/Beast Machines episodes ==

Okay, this has been bothering me for a while. On each page of the [[Beast Wars: Transformers (cartoon)#Episodes|Beast Wars]] and [[Beast Machines: Transformers (cartoon)#Episodes|Beast Machines]] episode, the Japanese title of each episode is given an English translation in each page's Foreign Localization section. And on the [[Geneon Universal Entertainment|Geneon]] page, under the sections of its Beast Wars, Beast Wars Metals, and Beast wars Returns releases, the Japanese episode titles are also translated into English. What's bothering me is that certain episodes are given slightly differently-translated English names when comparing those given on the actual episode pages to those given on the Geneon page. Here's a list of each differing episode title. The episode page names are on the left, and the Geneon page names are on the right:
:"The Solitary Warrior Tigatron" vs. "Lonely Warrior Tigatron"
:"Goodbye, Rattle!?" vs. "Goodbye Rattle!?"
:"The Falcon Warrior Airrazor" vs. "Falcon Warrior Airazor"
:"Floating Island Death Match Part 1" vs. "Floating Island Deathmatch Part 1"
:"Floating Island Death Match Part 2" vs. "Floating Island Deathmatch Part 2"
:"The Destrons' Dramatic Finish" vs. "The Destrons Make Drama"
:"Two Dinobots?" vs. "There are 2 Dinobots?"
:"The Ant Warrior from Hell, Inferno" vs. "Inferno, the Ant Warrior from Hell"
:"Revive, Beast Power!" vs. "Resurrected Beast Power"
:"The Immortal Starscream" vs. "Starscream's Invulnerability"
:"Fare Thee Well, Tigatron" vs. "Farewell Tigatron"
:"The Great King of Terror Arrives!" vs. "The King of Terror Arrives!"
:"You're Under Arrest, Meow" vs. "Meyow're Under Arrest"
:"Gro~w Bigger" vs. "Groooww Bigger"
:"I Am Resurrected, Dā" vs. "I am Resurrected!"
:"Blaze, Dragon" vs. "Blazing Dragon"
:"I Hath Returned" vs. "We Have Returned"
:"Resurrection of the Legend" vs. "Rebirth of the Legend"
:"The Dearly Wished Transformation" vs. "The Transformation of a Dear Wish"
:"The Memory of a Friend" vs. "Memory of a Friend"
:"Mission of the Stars" vs. "Message of the Stars"
:"The Moment of Truth" vs. "The End"
:"Captured Souls" vs. "Capture of the Spirits"
:"The Hellish All-out Attack" vs. "The General Offensive of Hell"
:"The Course of the Future" vs. "The Fate of the Future"
Could someone who's more adept at Japanese please clarify which titles should be universally used on this Wiki, and help in an attempt to create a greater sense of unity between the individual episode pages and the Geneon page (and with any other such pages on this Wiki as well)? --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 01:29, 10 April 2012 (EDT)
:The titles on the episode pages are more refined. Not to mention it would be easier to change the titles on a single page. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 05:58, 10 April 2012 (EDT)
::"I Hath Returned"? That's incorrect English. "Hath" was third person singular, not first person ("he hath" not "I hath"). --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 08:10, 10 April 2012 (EDT)
:::[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] translated that. I recall the intention was to capture the old-timey connotation of the original Japanese. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 08:21, 10 April 2012 (EDT)
:Something else that has me pondering are the specific choices made in spelling and grammar of a few of these titles. Like, the inclusion of a "The" where it may not need be (like in "The Solitary Warrior Tigatron" instead of just "Solitary Warrior Tigatron", or "The Falcon Warrior Airrazor" vs. "Falcon Warrior Airazor") or the use a comma (like in "Goodbye, Rattle!?" as opposed to "Goodbye Rattle!?") or a space between two words instead of making them a compound word ("Death Match" vs. "Deathmatch"), and the synonymous use of "Resurrect(ion)", "Rebirth", and "Revive". In these cases, are the titles on the episode pages truly the more precise titles, or could they also use some amending? --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 11:20, 10 April 2012 (EDT)
::Most of those details are up to the translator's discretion. But, like I said, it's easier to just edit the Genon page rather than across multiple articles. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 11:33, 10 April 2012 (EDT)

== Category:Deceased ==
Sub-categories
*Category:Deceased (Generation 1 cartoon)
**Category:Deceased (Marvel comics)
**Category:Deceased (BW)
*Category:Deceased (Armada)
*Category:Deceased (Energon)
*Category:Deceased (Movie)
**Category:Deceased (ROTF)
**Category:Deceased (DOTM)
*Category:Deceased (SG)
*Category:Deceased (Animated)
*Category:Deceased (Aligned)

Why not?--[[User:Finister2|Finister2]] 05:52, 10 April 2012 (EDT)

:"Deceased" is a stupid idea on a wiki that focuses on fiction with multiple continuities, time periods, vague "deaths", and resurrections. All characters will inevitably die at one point. This is not a warranted category. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 05:55, 10 April 2012 (EDT)

::Vote for "No".
::A character may get killed in a sub-continuity but alive in another. Not to mention if the character will be resurrected or not. (So, we don't need Category:Resurrected characters, either.) --'''[[User:TX55|<span style= "color:#00FA9A">TX55</span>]]'''<small><SUP>''[[User talk:TX55|<span style= "color:#0000CD">TALK</span>]]''</SUP></small> 10:11, 10 April 2012 (EDT)
:::It is an appealing idea, to have categories for characters that are deceased "now." If they are patched up, they get removed from the category. I would have changed the categories to "Deceased (Movieverse)" and "Deceased (UT cartoon)" since they are supposed to be all one continuity. The only problem I see is vague deaths and continuity inconsistencies. People would probably disagree with me that [[Brawn (G1)]] obviously survived that shot to the shoulder. So, unfortunately, I can't fully endorse the idea. - [[User:Starfield|Starﬁeld]] 11:08, 10 April 2012 (EDT)
::::If we go by continuity, we are going to have a ''lot'' of "Deceased" categories. And you could only do it by continuity, which goes against our current methods to have categories by franchise. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:46, 10 April 2012 (EDT)
::I agree with you guys in regards to characters. but, what about a category for ''real'' people who have been involved with the Transformers franchise (like voice actors, designers, writers, etc.) who are deceased? --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 11:11, 10 April 2012 (EDT)

== Scheduled downtime. ==

Our hoster is moving servers around tomorrow. One of ours is gonna be moved starting between "Thu Apr 12 23:00:00 UTC 2012 and Fri Apr 13 05:00:00 UTC 2012." So that'll happen. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:52, 11 April 2012 (EDT)
:I presume all the necessary backups have been made? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 22:37, 11 April 2012 (EDT)
::Regularly, like clockwork. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:51, 12 April 2012 (EDT)

==Category: Cats==
Presumably we have some kind of unwritten "We don't categorise by altmode" rule in play here, so I apologise if my adding a bunch of characters to this category seemed heavy-handed but in my defence the distinction between ''Shattered Glass'' Steeljaw and G1 Ravage is, eh, pretty much non-existent, Cheetor himself says "I'm a cat", it's a subset of Characters by species and we have K-9 under Dogs, so it's hardly black and white. But my main reason for doing it was that in SEO terms, having the word "Cats" repeatedly linked a bunch of times throughout the wiki is really quite useful, as in the wider internet cats are kind of a big deal. Real effing kitten calendars and all that. Isn't that something to consider? --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 03:47, 26 April 2012 (EDT)
:Categorizing by alternate mode has been brought up several times, but nobody has bothered to hammer out the details and do it. I don't particularly care for it one way or another, but putting Transformers in plain categories like "Cats" and "Watercraft" based on alternate mode makes them useless to those who only want to know about actual cats or watercraft in ''Transformers''. That said, I completely fail to see the relevance of Internet memes to our categorization system. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 03:59, 26 April 2012 (EDT)
::Well, just that keywords are good for search engines, keywords that link to relevant pages even better and lots of people search for cats on the internet. I know that my girlfriend does and at a time like this (when my birthday is coming up) it's not impossible that she might search for "Transformers cats". If that led her to, say, SG Ravage's page (which is quite accessible to an internet-savvy non-fan with its twitter references and Walky's cartoons) then she may well stick around to find out more, and maybe look for more Transformers cats through the category links at the bottom of the page. At the moment our first link in a Google search is Snow Cat, who's kinda cool but you'd probably have to be a GI Joe fan to really get it. I dunno, I'm just spitballing here, but part of my job is SEO so I hope I at least know something like what I'm talking about. Anyway, that was my line of thinking. If it's problematic then that's fine, but I'm not really convinced by the "people looking for actual cats or watercraft in ''Transformers''" argument either - on a TF wiki I think they'd assume Transformers that turn into either of those things would be included by default. They are robots in disguise, after all. --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 14:36, 26 April 2012 (EDT)

== Google + ==
I've made a Google + for the wiki. I just need someone to link it to the main page because I don't know how. This is the link: https://plus.google.com/106006102124340784739 -- [[User:Spydersix|Spydersix]] 19:00, 30 April 2012 (EDT)

== Alt-mode listings ==

I've seen several things here discussing listing alt-modes by ''category'', but I'm looking for something a bit less complicated. I would really appreciate having each character's page at least openly list their alt-mode in the beginning; as it stands, some pages do not make it clear what that character turns into, generally only mentioning it in passing or in screenshots. I think some kind of fill-in-the-blanks template would work well, the kind they use on Wikipedia for comic book superheroes that have sections for code names, secret identities, a brief list of abilities, etc. It doesn't even have to be that thorough, just a small piece under the page's main picture that has "name, alt-mode, faction" would be a nice change of pace. [[User:Deusoma|Deusoma]] 15:15, 2 May 2012 (EDT)
:Your idea is impractical because many characters have had numerous altmodes. Listing all of them would be ridiculously long while trying to generalize them down to a single listing would be useless. For example, [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]. The casual fan might assume that you could just list his altmode as "semi truck" and be done with it. But he has also been a bat, a Lambourghini Diablo and a shoe. And that doesn't even get into what kind of "semi truck" he is: cab over engine like the original or long nose like the Generation 2 version. And does it have a sleeper. With or without trailer. And you still haven't covered his non-Earth modes. None of the Cybertronian forms we have seen looks anything like any of the others. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:29, 2 May 2012 (EDT)
::I don't care one way or the other, but we could hide the minor alternate modes, the same as we do with voice actors. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 15:40, 2 May 2012 (EDT)
:While I agree that we should do our best to list alt-modes, at the beginning of the article doesn't seem like the most efficient place to do it. Rather, we should continue listing the alt-mode in the description of the various toys and work on filling in those that are lacking. - [[User:Shellspark|Shellspark]] 16:26, 2 May 2012 (EDT)
: Well, there are a lot of fiction-only altmodes going on. I could see this working as a Notes subsection, possibly as a gallery. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 17:27, 2 May 2012 (EDT)
:: Yeah, that's why I always attempt to get an image of each altmode in the fiction section as they appear. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 17:56, 2 May 2012 (EDT)

==Redundant foreign names==
According to Interrobang:
:"''So? It's been the standard for a long time and exactly how do you expect readers to know that Japan uses the same name without noting it?''"
1) No, it has NOT been "the standard for a long time". In fact, we didn't do this for YEARS. You're the one who seems to have decided, fairly recently, to pull this crap. Like with "mammoth".<br>
2) Well. Why don't we just list every country in the world that also uses that name? After all, how exactly are we to know if the Canadians don't not call her Airachnid, or the Germans, or the Zimbabweans (holy shit "Zimbabweans" is ''correct''?), or the other 190-odd nations across the globe? Oh wait, because we can use some incredibly base deductive reasoning and assume that unless a ''different'' name is listed for a country, ''it's the same name and we don't need to fucking list it there just so you can get a katakana-boner''. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 06:45, 3 May 2012 (EDT)
:There is the argument to be made that not including a foreign name leaves the reader unable to know if the character either has the same name in that country, or if that information is just ''missing'' from the article. Not that I disagree that it ''really'' seems to have got out of control, to the point that the Japanese words for "doctor" or "scientist" or "coach" or "mammoth" are being added to nameless characters' articles. I enjoyed our older attitude that basically amounted to "fuck katanana unless necessary to explain something". - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 07:05, 3 May 2012 (EDT)
::The counter-argument was already made above. ''Transformers'' is a global brand now, and it's basically a waste of space to list every country where Optimus Prime is called "Optimus Prime" (or as close as they can get phonetically), and better to assume that it is "Optimus Prime" unless otherwise noted. The ''probability'' that the name is the same is pretty damn good nowadays, especially in Japan. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 07:34, 3 May 2012 (EDT)
:::I'm sympathetic. If somebody actually does go through the trouble to track down what Airachnid is called in Zimbabwean and it ends up being "Airachnid" then if they put the information down, then nobody else will have to go through the trouble of looking it up. What if redundant foreign names are left <nowiki></nowiki> - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 10:04, 3 May 2012 (EDT)
::::I hate seeing redundant names, but I agree that a certain degree of "is this already known?" may exist in a vacuum. I'm not opposed to leaving them in the code but commented out to keep them out of the page itself. -[[User:LV|LV]] 00:00, 4 May 2012 (EDT)
:::::Would it be acceptable to have a template that displays the foreign names, but hides or combines entries if the names are not unique? The template might also be able to auto-categorize by "characters missing ''language'' names", too.[[Special:Contributions/192.249.47.177|192.249.47.177]] 18:49, 29 May 2012 (EDT)

==Toy Fair/Pre-Toy Fair Catalogues==
Collectively we went all out on getting hold of the 86 PTF catalogue when it popped up on eBay and have a nice page with full scans of it (I say "we" I completely missed that fund-raising drive). Going forward, is it a feasible aim for other Toy Fair and Pre-Toy Fair cats to be collected for the Wiki or is 86 known to be the only one of significant interest? I ask because I just stumbled upon an eBay seller with the 88 TF cat (which I'd hoped to procure for use on my Visionaries wiki) and some early 90s ones, all of which are beyond my means, but at relatively reasonable prices. Can't link to them on my phone, but I thought I'd mention it in case they are of significant interest like the 86 one was. [[User:Danja|Danja]] 03:45, 6 May 2012 (EDT)

== Google Chrome ==
Does anybody else experience a ''really'' slow connection to only this site while using Google Chrome? -- [[User:Spydersix|spyder]] 21:42, 17 May 2012 (EDT)

FYI: <nowiki>{{bigquote}}</nowiki> overlaps images in Google Chrome, like on [[Morocco]]. I don't know when that started. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:03, 22 May 2012 (EDT)

Now, the <nowiki>{{picsneeded}}</nowiki> tag overlaps the top of the episode template. It might just be my computer, but I don't know. -- [[User:Spydersix|spyder]] 18:28, 29 May 2012 (EDT)

:These layout problems are apparently an issue with the latest version of Chrome. I guess they'll get fixed in the next release or something. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:10, 31 May 2012 (EDT)

== Transformers 4 ==
Does anyone mind if I take a stab at creating a page for it? I'm not some idiot who's gonna create a crappy page with no effort. Or is it ''way'' to early to do that? -- [[User:Spydersix|spyder]] 19:03, 6 June 2012 (EDT)

== Prime game ==
What do people think about putting [[Transformers Prime: The Game]] in the nav bar? -- [[User:Spydersix|spyder]] 09:47, 10 June 2012 (EDT)
:Or we can replace the link to the Prime cartoon page with a link to the Prime franchise page, that way it avoids overcluttering the navbar. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 14:15, 10 June 2012 (EDT)
::Yeah, that also might work. -- [[User:Spydersix|spyder]] 09:23, 11 June 2012 (EDT)
:::At least 95% of the people who click on that are likely to be looking for info on the cartoon, and I feel like if we have Rescue Bots and Dark of the Moon pointing to the cartoon/film rather than the franchises, we should aim to be consistent with our navigation. We'll presumably have to add [[Transformers Universe]] there eventually anyway. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:46, 11 June 2012 (EDT)
::::Yeah, I forgot about that. We probably can take Dark of the Moon to declutter it. -- [[User:Spydersix|spyder]] 16:50, 11 June 2012 (EDT)
:::::We could divide things up with subheaders or just by putting darker lines in to split up the links. Man, I wish there was a way to easily add in more links without cluttering up the menu too much. It feels like we should have links to current toylines as well, and maybe the current IDW comics. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 17:21, 11 June 2012 (EDT)
::::::Yeah probably, but what can you do, right? And I like that subheader idea. And on a different note, "Transformers Prime: The Game" is a mouthful. How can we abbreviate that? -- [[User:Spydersix|spyder]] 17:36, 11 June 2012 (EDT)
::::::: TF Prime: The Game??? [[User:Bumblebee2000|Bumblebee2000]] 08:19, 12 June 2012 (EDT)
::::::::Probably the best we can do. -- [[User:Spydersix|spyder]] 13:37, 12 June 2012 (EDT)
:::::::::So what are we going to do about this nav bar? -- [[User:Spydersix|spyder]] 18:17, 12 June 2012 (EDT)
::::::::::Are we using the <nowiki>{{Primecap}}</nowiki> template for images from it? -- [[User:Spydersix|spyder]] 10:07, 13 June 2012 (EDT)

::::::::::Be patient. This stuff never happens overnight. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 18:50, 12 June 2012 (EDT)
:On abbreviating the name, as everything on the wiki is Transformers, you can say "Prime: The Game" instead of "TF Prime: The Game". The "TF" is assumed. [[User:JohnnyMrNinja|JohnnyMrNinja]] 15:30, 13 June 2012 (EDT)

== Rare/Unkown vintage G1 Walkie Talkie toys? ==

Hi guys. I was just browsing ebay and came across 3 old G1 Walkie Talkies that don't appear to be mentioned on the wiki anywhere.
#1- [http://www.ebay.com/itm/Transformers-Walkie-Talkie-ROBOT-1987-Hasbro-Inc/270982316728/ This] one appears to be an Argentinian Transformer with the mold licensed from Commando Toys.
#2 [http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Transformers-G1-Walkie-Talkies-Boxed-/300654034838?pt=US_Action_Figures&hash=item4600607f96/ These] guys appear to be unnamed generics.
#3 [http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/REAL-VTG-80s-TRANSFORMERS-INTERCOM-TELEPHONE-SYSTEM-WIRED-WALKIE-TALKIE-NIB-MIB-/360458042129?pt=US_Action_Figures&hash=item53ecf93b11 This] one features two Optimus Primes as an "Electronic Intercom Telephone System" (which seems to basically be two walkie talkies connected via a wire). Box says made by Nasta in lager photos and check out that goofy looking transformation sequence.

I'm not entirely sure if any of these are legit as I've never seen them mentioned anywhere else before. Anyone else know more info about these? Should they be added to wiki? [[User:RavenG|RavenG]] 02:27, 16 June 2012 (EDT)

== Technical Contact (and passwords) ==

Hi, guys. It's Botch the Crab... though I can't sign in as my account. I lost my password. I don't know what email address is associated with the account, but whichever one it is, when I did the "forgot password" thing and was told a new password was emailed to me, I never received any emails.

So my first question is: who can help me re-claim my account?

My second question is: who are the technical administrators of the wiki, and is that information posted somewhere that I couldn't find? I tried contacting Chris McFeely and David Willis, but neither of them were able to help, nor did they know who
would. So! Suggestions?

:I tried emailing your username, but it didn't work... It said that I need to be logged in with a valid email set, but I had done both of those things. Can any other user successfully send an email to [[User:Botch the Crab]]? Because it might be the email module that isn't working and that's why you can't reset your password. I don't think the MediaWiki framework has been updated since 2008 (we're running [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Release_notes/1.12#MediaWiki_1.12.0 MediWiki 1.12.0]), and if David Willis doesn't know who's running the tech (seeing as how [http://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/tfwiki.net he registered this site), it makes me think that there are not any people doing that. I could be mistaken, but I think there are only admins that are affecting change within the MW software.
:As far as I know, once a password to a MW site is lost there is no recovery outside of email, at least that is the case for WP. [[User:JohnnyMrNinja|JohnnyMrNinja]] 17:49, 16 June 2012 (EDT)

::I just tried sending an email to Botch and it worked, though the copy I sent myself ended up in my gmail spam folder. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:48, 16 June 2012 (EDT)

:::You're right, I had to confirm my email address and now I can email, although emails from this site were marked as spam for me as well. Botch, I can only hope that you haven't checked your spam folder. [[User:JohnnyMrNinja|JohnnyMrNinja]] 00:54, 17 June 2012 (EDT)

:Thanks for all the help, guys. Unfortunately, I haven't received any of the "new password" emails. (Yes, I keep checking the spam folder.) The frustrating part is that without being able to sign in, I cannot confirm ''which'' email address these are being sent to. All my emails are forwarded to my gmail account, so I have no idea why I wouldn't receive them. It's a mystery. It's weird to think it's possible that none of the administrators have the access or ability to solve this.--[[User:Botch|Botch]] 23:18, 18 June 2012 (EDT)

Talk:Package art

2012-06-16T18:01:17Z

Botch: /* Mark Watts */

==G2 Box/Card Art Mostly Traced From G1?==
I ran across the Powermaster Prime/G2 Hero art trace and it's obvious, but I'm starting to think that maybe most of if not all of the new figure card art was traced from G1 stuff. Am I crazy?

Case in point (comparing G2 instruction lineart to box art here this time):
*[http://www.botchthecrab.com/archive/autobot/1987/crosshairs.jpg Crosshairs] -> [http://tfwiki.net/~fortmax/instructions/G2/turbofire_instruct.jpg Turbofire] (They match up near perfectly when overlaid in Photoshop, including the weird left leg)
*[http://www.botchthecrab.com/archive/decepticon/1985/blitzwing.jpg Blitzwing] -> [http://tfwiki.net/~fortmax/instructions/G2/rapido_instruct.jpg Rapido] (Upper body, left leg, and left arm match up in overlay; pay attention to left hand on Rapido- thumb looks so odd because it's obscured on Blitzwing by sword hand guard)
*[http://www.botchthecrab.com/archive/decepticon/1984/skywarp.jpg Skywarp] -> [http://tfwiki.net/~fortmax/instructions/G2/eagleeye_instruct.jpg Eagle Eye] (Again, upper body, legs, left hand. I'm guessing the character's right side got changed to account for placement on the card by the clamshell bubble)

Those are the first few I glanced at in the last few minutes. You can kind of tell what year G1 box art the character seems to have been copied from judging by the proportions and the pose. The awkward poses are 1984-86, the more dynamic but sort of "squatty" poses are from 1987 onwards.
--[[User:MCRG Again|MCRG Again]] 16:16, 23 February 2010 (EST)

== Beast Machines ==

I think... I ''theeeeenk''... that the only instances of CGI models being used on the packaging were for the Mega toys, and they didn't actually appear on the FRONT of the boxes (Cheetor might've still been there?), but on the BACK, in the vicinity of the bio-card. I know this was definitely the case with Tankor... - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 00:32, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

==Optimus Prime==
I won't argue too hard against replacing a run-of-the-mill Ordinary Joe example with the Shining Icon -- Prime's art was my first thought when I was starting this page -- but I ''really'' don't want to see this article become burdened with a ton of Optimus Prime images. Better to stick with a wide variety of characters. Also, I really liked the Rollbar art because it so aptly illustrates the exaggeration inherent in most G1 art; it'd be nice to find a home for it on this page somewhere. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 07:05, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
:I wanted to use G1 Prime's art because it's the most well known and one of the best 1984 art. Supercon Armada Prime's art is there because it's the only neutral white background packaging art from Armada that I know of on this wiki (the other being Powerlinx Optimus Prime). As for exaggeration, I'd say that's mostly for the first half of G1. During the Masters era and there after, the standard of packaging art was quite high. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 07:28, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
::Eh. Thunderwing there has about 50 joints, none of which exist on his toys. (Still not as extreme as the Throttlebots, though. At least his toy HAS joints. And feet.) -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 07:35, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
:::Oh, you mean the art making the character (and thus the toy) look like they have natural joints and articulation that allows the cool posing that toys today can't even dream of doing? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 07:55, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

==The movie's "computer-rendered" headshots==
Do we really know those are CGI? They could very easily be paintings. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 18:01, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
:I was about to say. I'm pretty sure they're paintings. I'm sure the movie bots' headshots use CGI renders as a BASE, but do we really think they made CGI models of allllllll the non-movie bots' noggins? I severely doubt it. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 18:09, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah, that was just me making an ass-umption, working from memory and without looking too carefully. I'll readily defer to your more artistically-experienced judgment. On close inspection they pretty obviously aren't the movie models. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 18:12, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

==Links from Botch's Site; Question about mirroring==
Hey hey, it's Botch. I wanted to mention that I put up a link to this page from the homepage of my [http://www.botchthecrab.com/archive Box Art Archive]. In truth, I was hoping there was some way that I could mirror an edited version of the contents of this page via a feed of some sort, but I haven't found any information or utility for that yet. My hope was
* Allow people to read the history of TF box/character art without leaving my site
* Advertise this Wiki and encourage people to visit and contribute.
So if anyone has any opinions on all of this, feel free to shout them at me. -- [[User:Botch the Crab|Botch the Crab]] 02:47, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
:I don't think wikia sites have any kind of feed, but I'm not the expert. It's open source, so there's nothing to stop you from reproducing the content on your page in some form or other, but that wouldn't have live updating, of course. Regardless, the link is appreciated! -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 03:49, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

==Richard Marcej==
This fellow's page shows instruction sheet line art, not package art paintings. I'm gonna guess that he was copying the paintings, rather than vice versa. Anybody got facts to the contrary? -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 03:49, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
:Marcej did the line art upon which both the final box art and instruction sheet art were based. The instruction sheet renderings all appear to be simplified versions of Marcej's renderings, and the box art looks like final painted versions (with all the detail). I compared several of the character's instruction sheet art and box art against Marcej's art and what I said above seems universally the case.
:As far as 'facts' (beyond what he presents on his site), Marcej even put out a [http://www.baboonbooks.com/merchandise/merchandise.html small book of illustrations] from his time as a Hasbro package designer. Honestly, based on the line art he's presented, I see no reason to doubt his word that he was at least the penciller/inker for all the box art I credited to him.
:There was an interview with him on Seibertron.com that is currently down, but I have asked them to restore it. It's [http://www.seibertron.com/people/interviews/view.php?interview_id=18 here], working or otherwise. -- [[User:Botch the Crab|Botch the Crab]] 02:12, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

==Back of the box changes==
Does anyone have any information on the small fixes implemented on some of the art for the back of the boxes? I remember reading about running changes made. For example, removing one of the Hot Rods from a battle scene and recoloring Springer green when he was once brown. I thought Botch's site had a page on it but I can't seem to find it now [[User:Riddlerj|Riddlerj]] 13:40, 2 March 2010 (EST)

== Another artist name ==

Apparently we will soon know what [http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-news-rumors/487778-john-good-g1-boxart-artists-appear-roll-out-roll-call.html John Good] drew.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 21:12, 10 November 2011 (EST)

== DotM & RotF box art artist ==
Looks like the culprit is [http://www.indigostudios.com/work-2/ Indigo Studios] out of Atlanta. Note for later...--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 18:13, 9 January 2012 (EST)

== Mark Watts ==

Hi! This is Botch of the [http://www.botchthecrab.com/archive|Transformers Box Art Archive]. I recently received an email from Mark Watts in which he asserts that he did the box art for the 1984 minibots as well as Shockwave and Jetfire. I believe him! I'm going to update his page and this one as well. I know I only have his word, but he was very specific in itemizing the 1984 minibots, as well as Jetfire and Shockwave, the latter of which he posts on his site: http://www.classiccreationsc.com/toy-illustration.html.

P.S. I wanted to use my original Botch the Crab account, but couldn't gain access, so I created a new Botch one. I know, it sucks.--[[User:Botch|Botch]] 14:00, 16 June 2012 (EDT)

Talk:Package art

2012-06-16T18:00:01Z

Botch: /* Mark Watts */

==G2 Box/Card Art Mostly Traced From G1?==
I ran across the Powermaster Prime/G2 Hero art trace and it's obvious, but I'm starting to think that maybe most of if not all of the new figure card art was traced from G1 stuff. Am I crazy?

Case in point (comparing G2 instruction lineart to box art here this time):
*[http://www.botchthecrab.com/archive/autobot/1987/crosshairs.jpg Crosshairs] -> [http://tfwiki.net/~fortmax/instructions/G2/turbofire_instruct.jpg Turbofire] (They match up near perfectly when overlaid in Photoshop, including the weird left leg)
*[http://www.botchthecrab.com/archive/decepticon/1985/blitzwing.jpg Blitzwing] -> [http://tfwiki.net/~fortmax/instructions/G2/rapido_instruct.jpg Rapido] (Upper body, left leg, and left arm match up in overlay; pay attention to left hand on Rapido- thumb looks so odd because it's obscured on Blitzwing by sword hand guard)
*[http://www.botchthecrab.com/archive/decepticon/1984/skywarp.jpg Skywarp] -> [http://tfwiki.net/~fortmax/instructions/G2/eagleeye_instruct.jpg Eagle Eye] (Again, upper body, legs, left hand. I'm guessing the character's right side got changed to account for placement on the card by the clamshell bubble)

Those are the first few I glanced at in the last few minutes. You can kind of tell what year G1 box art the character seems to have been copied from judging by the proportions and the pose. The awkward poses are 1984-86, the more dynamic but sort of "squatty" poses are from 1987 onwards.
--[[User:MCRG Again|MCRG Again]] 16:16, 23 February 2010 (EST)

== Beast Machines ==

I think... I ''theeeeenk''... that the only instances of CGI models being used on the packaging were for the Mega toys, and they didn't actually appear on the FRONT of the boxes (Cheetor might've still been there?), but on the BACK, in the vicinity of the bio-card. I know this was definitely the case with Tankor... - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 00:32, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

==Optimus Prime==
I won't argue too hard against replacing a run-of-the-mill Ordinary Joe example with the Shining Icon -- Prime's art was my first thought when I was starting this page -- but I ''really'' don't want to see this article become burdened with a ton of Optimus Prime images. Better to stick with a wide variety of characters. Also, I really liked the Rollbar art because it so aptly illustrates the exaggeration inherent in most G1 art; it'd be nice to find a home for it on this page somewhere. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 07:05, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
:I wanted to use G1 Prime's art because it's the most well known and one of the best 1984 art. Supercon Armada Prime's art is there because it's the only neutral white background packaging art from Armada that I know of on this wiki (the other being Powerlinx Optimus Prime). As for exaggeration, I'd say that's mostly for the first half of G1. During the Masters era and there after, the standard of packaging art was quite high. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 07:28, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
::Eh. Thunderwing there has about 50 joints, none of which exist on his toys. (Still not as extreme as the Throttlebots, though. At least his toy HAS joints. And feet.) -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 07:35, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
:::Oh, you mean the art making the character (and thus the toy) look like they have natural joints and articulation that allows the cool posing that toys today can't even dream of doing? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 07:55, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

==The movie's "computer-rendered" headshots==
Do we really know those are CGI? They could very easily be paintings. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 18:01, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
:I was about to say. I'm pretty sure they're paintings. I'm sure the movie bots' headshots use CGI renders as a BASE, but do we really think they made CGI models of allllllll the non-movie bots' noggins? I severely doubt it. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 18:09, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah, that was just me making an ass-umption, working from memory and without looking too carefully. I'll readily defer to your more artistically-experienced judgment. On close inspection they pretty obviously aren't the movie models. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 18:12, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

==Links from Botch's Site; Question about mirroring==
Hey hey, it's Botch. I wanted to mention that I put up a link to this page from the homepage of my [http://www.botchthecrab.com/archive Box Art Archive]. In truth, I was hoping there was some way that I could mirror an edited version of the contents of this page via a feed of some sort, but I haven't found any information or utility for that yet. My hope was
* Allow people to read the history of TF box/character art without leaving my site
* Advertise this Wiki and encourage people to visit and contribute.
So if anyone has any opinions on all of this, feel free to shout them at me. -- [[User:Botch the Crab|Botch the Crab]] 02:47, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
:I don't think wikia sites have any kind of feed, but I'm not the expert. It's open source, so there's nothing to stop you from reproducing the content on your page in some form or other, but that wouldn't have live updating, of course. Regardless, the link is appreciated! -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 03:49, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

==Richard Marcej==
This fellow's page shows instruction sheet line art, not package art paintings. I'm gonna guess that he was copying the paintings, rather than vice versa. Anybody got facts to the contrary? -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 03:49, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
:Marcej did the line art upon which both the final box art and instruction sheet art were based. The instruction sheet renderings all appear to be simplified versions of Marcej's renderings, and the box art looks like final painted versions (with all the detail). I compared several of the character's instruction sheet art and box art against Marcej's art and what I said above seems universally the case.
:As far as 'facts' (beyond what he presents on his site), Marcej even put out a [http://www.baboonbooks.com/merchandise/merchandise.html small book of illustrations] from his time as a Hasbro package designer. Honestly, based on the line art he's presented, I see no reason to doubt his word that he was at least the penciller/inker for all the box art I credited to him.
:There was an interview with him on Seibertron.com that is currently down, but I have asked them to restore it. It's [http://www.seibertron.com/people/interviews/view.php?interview_id=18 here], working or otherwise. -- [[User:Botch the Crab|Botch the Crab]] 02:12, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

==Back of the box changes==
Does anyone have any information on the small fixes implemented on some of the art for the back of the boxes? I remember reading about running changes made. For example, removing one of the Hot Rods from a battle scene and recoloring Springer green when he was once brown. I thought Botch's site had a page on it but I can't seem to find it now [[User:Riddlerj|Riddlerj]] 13:40, 2 March 2010 (EST)

== Another artist name ==

Apparently we will soon know what [http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-news-rumors/487778-john-good-g1-boxart-artists-appear-roll-out-roll-call.html John Good] drew.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 21:12, 10 November 2011 (EST)

== DotM & RotF box art artist ==
Looks like the culprit is [http://www.indigostudios.com/work-2/ Indigo Studios] out of Atlanta. Note for later...--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 18:13, 9 January 2012 (EST)

== Mark Watts ==

Hi! This is Botch of the [http://www.botchthecrab.com/archive|Transformers Box Art Archive]. I recently received an email from Mark Watts in which he asserts that he did the box art for the 1984 minibots as well as Shockwave and Jetfire. I believe him! I'm going to update his page and this one as well. I know I only have his word, but he was very specific in itemizing the 1984 minibots, as well as Jetfire and Shockwave, the latter of which he posts on his [http://www.classiccreationsc.com/toy-illustration.html|website].

P.S. I wanted to use my original Botch the Crab account, but couldn't gain access, so I created a new Botch one. I know, it sucks.--[[User:Botch|Botch]] 14:00, 16 June 2012 (EDT)

Talk:Package art

2012-06-16T17:59:27Z

Botch: /* Mark Watts */ new section

==G2 Box/Card Art Mostly Traced From G1?==
I ran across the Powermaster Prime/G2 Hero art trace and it's obvious, but I'm starting to think that maybe most of if not all of the new figure card art was traced from G1 stuff. Am I crazy?

Case in point (comparing G2 instruction lineart to box art here this time):
*[http://www.botchthecrab.com/archive/autobot/1987/crosshairs.jpg Crosshairs] -> [http://tfwiki.net/~fortmax/instructions/G2/turbofire_instruct.jpg Turbofire] (They match up near perfectly when overlaid in Photoshop, including the weird left leg)
*[http://www.botchthecrab.com/archive/decepticon/1985/blitzwing.jpg Blitzwing] -> [http://tfwiki.net/~fortmax/instructions/G2/rapido_instruct.jpg Rapido] (Upper body, left leg, and left arm match up in overlay; pay attention to left hand on Rapido- thumb looks so odd because it's obscured on Blitzwing by sword hand guard)
*[http://www.botchthecrab.com/archive/decepticon/1984/skywarp.jpg Skywarp] -> [http://tfwiki.net/~fortmax/instructions/G2/eagleeye_instruct.jpg Eagle Eye] (Again, upper body, legs, left hand. I'm guessing the character's right side got changed to account for placement on the card by the clamshell bubble)

Those are the first few I glanced at in the last few minutes. You can kind of tell what year G1 box art the character seems to have been copied from judging by the proportions and the pose. The awkward poses are 1984-86, the more dynamic but sort of "squatty" poses are from 1987 onwards.
--[[User:MCRG Again|MCRG Again]] 16:16, 23 February 2010 (EST)

== Beast Machines ==

I think... I ''theeeeenk''... that the only instances of CGI models being used on the packaging were for the Mega toys, and they didn't actually appear on the FRONT of the boxes (Cheetor might've still been there?), but on the BACK, in the vicinity of the bio-card. I know this was definitely the case with Tankor... - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 00:32, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

==Optimus Prime==
I won't argue too hard against replacing a run-of-the-mill Ordinary Joe example with the Shining Icon -- Prime's art was my first thought when I was starting this page -- but I ''really'' don't want to see this article become burdened with a ton of Optimus Prime images. Better to stick with a wide variety of characters. Also, I really liked the Rollbar art because it so aptly illustrates the exaggeration inherent in most G1 art; it'd be nice to find a home for it on this page somewhere. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 07:05, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
:I wanted to use G1 Prime's art because it's the most well known and one of the best 1984 art. Supercon Armada Prime's art is there because it's the only neutral white background packaging art from Armada that I know of on this wiki (the other being Powerlinx Optimus Prime). As for exaggeration, I'd say that's mostly for the first half of G1. During the Masters era and there after, the standard of packaging art was quite high. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 07:28, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
::Eh. Thunderwing there has about 50 joints, none of which exist on his toys. (Still not as extreme as the Throttlebots, though. At least his toy HAS joints. And feet.) -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 07:35, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
:::Oh, you mean the art making the character (and thus the toy) look like they have natural joints and articulation that allows the cool posing that toys today can't even dream of doing? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 07:55, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

==The movie's "computer-rendered" headshots==
Do we really know those are CGI? They could very easily be paintings. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 18:01, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
:I was about to say. I'm pretty sure they're paintings. I'm sure the movie bots' headshots use CGI renders as a BASE, but do we really think they made CGI models of allllllll the non-movie bots' noggins? I severely doubt it. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 18:09, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah, that was just me making an ass-umption, working from memory and without looking too carefully. I'll readily defer to your more artistically-experienced judgment. On close inspection they pretty obviously aren't the movie models. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 18:12, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

==Links from Botch's Site; Question about mirroring==
Hey hey, it's Botch. I wanted to mention that I put up a link to this page from the homepage of my [http://www.botchthecrab.com/archive Box Art Archive]. In truth, I was hoping there was some way that I could mirror an edited version of the contents of this page via a feed of some sort, but I haven't found any information or utility for that yet. My hope was
* Allow people to read the history of TF box/character art without leaving my site
* Advertise this Wiki and encourage people to visit and contribute.
So if anyone has any opinions on all of this, feel free to shout them at me. -- [[User:Botch the Crab|Botch the Crab]] 02:47, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
:I don't think wikia sites have any kind of feed, but I'm not the expert. It's open source, so there's nothing to stop you from reproducing the content on your page in some form or other, but that wouldn't have live updating, of course. Regardless, the link is appreciated! -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 03:49, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

==Richard Marcej==
This fellow's page shows instruction sheet line art, not package art paintings. I'm gonna guess that he was copying the paintings, rather than vice versa. Anybody got facts to the contrary? -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 03:49, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
:Marcej did the line art upon which both the final box art and instruction sheet art were based. The instruction sheet renderings all appear to be simplified versions of Marcej's renderings, and the box art looks like final painted versions (with all the detail). I compared several of the character's instruction sheet art and box art against Marcej's art and what I said above seems universally the case.
:As far as 'facts' (beyond what he presents on his site), Marcej even put out a [http://www.baboonbooks.com/merchandise/merchandise.html small book of illustrations] from his time as a Hasbro package designer. Honestly, based on the line art he's presented, I see no reason to doubt his word that he was at least the penciller/inker for all the box art I credited to him.
:There was an interview with him on Seibertron.com that is currently down, but I have asked them to restore it. It's [http://www.seibertron.com/people/interviews/view.php?interview_id=18 here], working or otherwise. -- [[User:Botch the Crab|Botch the Crab]] 02:12, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

==Back of the box changes==
Does anyone have any information on the small fixes implemented on some of the art for the back of the boxes? I remember reading about running changes made. For example, removing one of the Hot Rods from a battle scene and recoloring Springer green when he was once brown. I thought Botch's site had a page on it but I can't seem to find it now [[User:Riddlerj|Riddlerj]] 13:40, 2 March 2010 (EST)

== Another artist name ==

Apparently we will soon know what [http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-news-rumors/487778-john-good-g1-boxart-artists-appear-roll-out-roll-call.html John Good] drew.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 21:12, 10 November 2011 (EST)

== DotM & RotF box art artist ==
Looks like the culprit is [http://www.indigostudios.com/work-2/ Indigo Studios] out of Atlanta. Note for later...--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 18:13, 9 January 2012 (EST)

== Mark Watts ==

Hi! This is Botch of the [http://www.botchthecrab.com/archive|Transformers Box Art Archive]. I recently received an email from Mark Watts in which he asserts that he did the box art for the 1984 minibots as well as Shockwave and Jetfire. I believe him! I'm going to update his page and this one as well. I know I only have his word, but he was very specific in itemizing the 1984 minibots, as well as Jetfire and Shockwave, the latter of which he posts on his [http://www.classiccreationsc.com/toy-illustration.html|website].

P.S. I wanted to use my original Botch the Crab account, but couldn't gain access, so I created a new Botch one. I know, it sucks.

Package art

2012-06-16T17:56:21Z

Botch: /* Generation 1 */

{{suite}}

{{picsneeded|Generation 2, Machine Wars}}

[[Image:G1_OptimusPrime_boxart.jpg|right|thumb|350px|Box art for [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] in 1984 by [[Jeffrey Mangiat]].]]

Throughout the life of the [[Transformers brand|''Transformers'' brand]], '''package art''' has been one of its most common elements. Though not as widely noted and celebrated as [[Tech Spec|Tech Specs]], it is just as enduring and iconic to the brand. In the fandom, it is also referred to as '''box art''', though it also appears on carded toy [[Packaging|packages]].

''Transformers'' package art most often serves to portray the toy in the mode that it isn't packaged in. As most Transformers are sold in their non-robot forms, it typically shows them as robots (or whatever their equivalent primary mode is.)

===Generation 1===
[[Image:Thunderwingboxart.jpg|left|200px|thumb|All that hard work and they STILL missed a mode.]]
Every Transformer sold in Generation 1 featured hand-painted artwork on the front of the package, most often showing the robot mode, with the vehicle form of the actual toy visible alongside it through a clear plastic window or bubble. A smaller version of the art was shown as part of the character's [[Bio|biography]] and [[Tech Spec]] profile. Generation 1's package art also showed up in numerous merchandising items, such as [[Action Cards]], [[Pack-in material|pack-in flyers]], [[Iron-on patch|iron-on patches]], party hats, and more.

Some toys would also have art depicting their vehicle mode. The [[Jumpstarter|Jumpstarters]] had vehicle art because they were packaged in robot mode, and the [[Triple Changer|Triple Changers]] had art for the vehicle mode the toy wasn't packaged in. The tech specs still used the robot art only. [[Punch (G1)|Punch]] also had boxart for both of his robot modes. Another exception to the rule was the [[Clone (subgroup)|Clones]], sold packaged in their identical robot modes, with artwork of their different alternate modes alongside them. Vehicle mode art was generally used only on windowed boxes, since the non-windowed boxes (such as [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]], [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]], [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]], and [[Countdown (G1)|Countdown]]) had large pictures of all alternate modes on the front.

Package art for the multiple-form [[Pretender]]s featured all of their forms: outer shell and both modes of the inner robot. As the multiple-form Mega and Ultra Pretender toys came along, this resulted in some rather crowded package art.

[[Image:G1 boxart at botcon.jpg|right|250px|thumb|When we win the lottery, this is where we're going.]]
The character art for many of the [[Diaclone]]-licensed characters was directly appropriated from their original Diaclone boxes, including Autobot vehicles, Dinobots, and Decepticon cassettes. This style was maintained for all newly-commissioned Generation 1 (and Generation 2) character art, presumably for consistency.

This art style often depicted a somewhat fictionalized version of the robot mode. While the reproduction of the toy's finer details was done very faithfully, the actual poses were often utterly impossible to reproduce given the limited articulation of most ''Generation 1'' toys. Seemingly, the less the posable the toy was, the greater the artistic exaggeration tended to be; thus, the [[Throttlebot]]s and [[Battlecharger]]s were shown with jointed arms, separable legs and posable heads, even though the represented toys lacked all these features.

Some of the first year's character art, such as [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]], [[Jazz (G1)|Jazz]], and some of the [[Seeker (body-type)|Seeker]]s, were painted by [[Jeffrey Mangiat]]. The [[Mini Vehicle#Generation_1|1984 mini-vehicles]], as well as [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] and [[Jetfire (G1)|Jetfire]], were illustrated by [[Mark Watts]]. A large portion of the 1986 through 1988 character line art was done by [[Richard Marcej]][http://www.baboonbooks.com/portfolio/Illustration_images/Transformers/trans_illus.html], including some if not all of the [[Predacon (G1)|Predacons]], [[Headmaster (technology)|Headmasters]], [[Targetmaster]]s, [[Powermaster]]s, [[Seacon (G1)|Seacons]] and [[Pretender]]s. Much of the late-run ''Generation 1'' package art was the work of Japanese illustrator [[Hidetsugu Yoshioka]], whose work brought a dynamic and appealing style to the often blocky and simplistic toys.

A number of the original ''Generation 1'' paintings have appeared for sale at recent [[BotCon|BotCons]], at asking prices starting at $650 and ranging up to several thousand dollars.
{{-}}

====Back of the box art====
[[Image:G1 1984 backofboxbattle.jpg|left|200px|thumb|My name is Optimus Prime. I'm Japanese!]]
For the first five years, the boxed toys of ''Generation 1'' also featured hand-painted, mural-like artwork depicting that year's toyline engaged in battle.

Compared to the fiction which developed around the toys, these paintings often feature some rather surreal elements. Multiples of the same character are shown (sometimes to depict movement, and possibly a result of the ''Transformers'' toys' original fictional origin as piloted mecha), and cars are seen to fly through space. Occasional off-model characters appear as well, such as a red Tracks or a strange-looking Broadside.

The original 1984 painting showed the Transformers battling in deep space. The 1985 toy assortment was shown fighting in Earth orbit, with the planet sustaining some massive damage below them. In 1986, they were on the barren surface of a planet, centered around Metroplex. (1985 and 1986's were painted by Jeffrey Mangiat.) The 1987 battle was once again in deep space, with [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]] and [[Scorponok (G1)|Scorponok]] as the clear centerpieces; 1988 was likewise set in deep space.

[[Image:SpaceshotAngry.jpg|right|150px|thumb|I'll finish you yet, Dudley Do-Right!]]
With the proliferation of Pretenders and [[Micromaster]] bases in 1989, the standardized back-of-box art was replaced with a series of rather crude and cartoonish hand-drawn scenes, each showing a few of that year's characters engaged in combat, typically the toy type (Micromaster base, Mega Pretender, etc.) that was being sold in the package. The line art for these illustrations was apparently all done by [[Richard Marcej| Richard Marcej]] [http://www.baboonbooks.com/portfolio/Illustration_images/Battle%20Scenes/TransbattleIllus.html], who was creditably also responsible for much of the higher-quality character art from earlier years.

The Action Masters in 1990 did get a more traditional mural painting, showing a battle in low Earth orbit, complete with ground vehicles flying through space.
{{-}}

===Generation 2===
''Generation 2'' featured a combination of retouched (or redrawn-to-look-as-if-it-were-retouched) ''Generation 1'' (obviously for the repainted or retooled ''Generation 1'' toys) and all-new artwork to accompany the new toys. This new artwork was closer in resemblance to the artwork seen in the last years of ''Generation 1'' than the early art.

Some of ''Generation 2'''s package art was reproduced on a series of pack-in [[Real Action Pop-Ups 3-D Transformer Trading Card|Real Action Pop-Ups 3-D Transformer Trading Cards]].

===Beast Wars===
[[Image:Sonar-bw-packageart.jpg|left|150px|thumb|The Batclaw.]]
''[[Beast Wars: Transformers (toyline)|Beast Wars]]'' continued the painted-art standard of ''Generation 1'', though the artwork tended to exaggerate the beastly qualities of the robot modes. Occasional use of the mutant head feature on the early ''Beast Wars'' toys sometimes led to rather strange results.

[[Image:Rampage-backofthebox.jpg|right|150px|thumb|Terror Claws, the arch nemesis of Echowarrior.]]

Three of the largest ''Beast Wars'' toys (the Transmetals [[Depth Charge (BW)|Depth Charge]], [[Rampage (BW)|Rampage]] and [[Optimus Primal|Optimal Optimus]]) featured a "schematic" drawing of the toy in robot mode on the back of the box, in blue line-on-black form, alongside a photograph of the actual toy. The drawing had call-outs for such [[Power Plans|bizarre technical details]] as "[[Galva-conductor|galva-conductors]]", "terror claws", "space cruiser wings", and "LED smart missile plasma cannons".

The later Transmetal 2 toys [[Tigerhawk]] and Megatron omitted the line art and used the toy photo to call out the techno-nonsense. These two toys also featured added box art placed so that the toys, visible through the box's plastic window, appeared to be firing their weapons. Megatron, for example, appeared to have a stream of fire spewing from his dragon head's mouth.
{{-}}

===Machine Wars===
''[[Machine Wars: Transformers|Machine Wars]]'' was composed of mostly repaints/retools from the 1992 European ''Generation 1'' toyline and previously unused ''Generation 2''. The only packaging art created for the line was the art for [[Hubcap (MW)|Hubcap]] and [[Hoist (G1)|Hoist]]. [[Sandstorm (G1)|Sandstorm]], [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]] and [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] used art from the [[The Transformers (toyline)|Generation 1 toys]] they were [[Redeco|redecoes]] of. The Basic jets used recolored [[Predator (subgroup)|Predator]] art, and [[Prowl (G1)|Prowl]] and [[Mirage (G1)|Mirage]] used [[Laser Rod]] [[Jolt (G2)|Jolt]]'s art. Oddly, [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] didn't use [[Thunder Clash]]'s art, but instead used a heavily edited version of Laser Optimus Prime's art. (As a result, Prime's box art indicates that the toy has a mouthplate, which is not the case.)

===Beast Machines===
The ''[[Beast Machines: Transformers (toyline)|Beast Machines]]'' toyline was the first to break with the tradition established by ''Generation 1''. Most packages featured the CGI-rendered robot mode of [[Cheetor (BW)|Cheetor]], rather than the character whose toy was being sold. For the "The Battle for the Sparks" subline, Cheetor was replaced by [[Optimus Primal]] in beast mode. The "Dinobots" subline featured [[T-Wrecks]] in beast mode.

The CGI model of boxed characters who appeared on [[Beast Machines: Transformers (cartoon)|the show]], such as [[Tankor (BM)|Tankor]], appeared on the back of their boxes alongside their profile.

===Robots in Disguise===
''[[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (toyline)|Robots in Disguise]]'' restored individual character portrayals to the front of packages... but these were simply computer-enhanced photographs of the actual toys within, often transformed to varying degrees of accuracy. The Japanese ''Car Robots'' releases continued to use the type of CGI boxart used on the Japanese ''Beast Wars'' toys.

===Armada===
[[Image:OptimusPrimeUT-Armada.jpg|right|150px|thumb|Obesity is my destiny!]]
With the new ''[[Transformers: Armada (toyline)|Armada]]'' toyline and franchise continuity, Hasbro's ''Transformers'' packaging returned to hand-drawn character art for the first time since the end of ''Beast Wars''. Drawn by artists from [[Dreamwave Productions]], this art followed a comic book style with modern Photoshop colouring, rather than the hand-painted work of ''Generation 1''.

This art was also reproduced onto a collectible sticker that was included with all ''Armada'' toys from the Super-Con size class and upwards.

*The Mini-Con class toys featured a single piece of artwork of one of the Mini-Con team members on the insert tray card
*The Super-Con class toys did not feature artwork directly on the packaging card itself, instead opting to display the collector sticker in the packaging bubble.
*Max-Con, Giga-Con, Super Base and Supreme class toys all featured art directly printed onto the packaging.
{{-}}

===Commemorative Series===
The ''[[The Transformers: Generation One Commemorative Series| Generation One Commemorative Series]]'' series featured a wide range of previously seen art, from the original 1980s packaging art to the ''Transformers Collection'' reissue artwork by [[Hirofumi Ichikawa]]. Additionally, all-new art by Dreamwave artist/president [[Pat Lee]] was commissioned for several of the later reissues, coupled with a few instances of recycled artwork originally drawn by Lee for the covers of Dreamwave's [[Prime Directive|first ''Generation 1'' mini-series]].

===Universe===
[[Image:KingAtlas-card.jpg|right|120px|thumb|Hey! Come back with my purse!]]
''[[Transformers: Universe (2003 toyline)|Universe]]'' packaging art were mostly by the Dreamwave affiliated artists, but while the penciling was of the same general quality and style of the mainline art, the colouring was often much flatter and lacking in depth. Additionally, some toys featured artwork by Hasbro's in-house artists attempting to emulate the then-popular Dreamwave style, to extremely varied results.

{{-}}

===Energon===
[[Image:Energon Perceptor cardart.jpg|left|100px|thumb|Hahahaha, I've got your purse!]]
The ''[[Transformers: Energon (toyline)|Energon]]'' toyline featured the same style of comic artwork first seen in the ''Armada'' line, this time featuring all of the characters included in a toy package where possible (for example, an entire Mini-Con team as opposed to just a single member as seen during ''Armada''). Once again, artists affiliated with Dreamwave Productions provided the artwork. Similarly to ''Armada'', for toys Deluxe class and upwards the packaging art was reproduced on collectible tech spec cards included with paperwork or taped inside the packaging bubble.
{{-}}

===Alternators===
[[Image:Swindleart.jpg|right|100px|thumb|Combaticon Night Fever]]
The ''[[Transformers: Alternators| Alternators]]'' toyline originally featured the same style of full-body artwork seen in the other ''Transformers'' toylines at the time, once again by various Dreamwave artists (namely [[Pat Lee]], [[Don Figueroa]], [[Alex Milne]], [[Joe Ng]], [[Guido Guidi]] and [[Marcelo Matere]]). However, when the packaging style switched to the large plastic bubble/cardboard tray configuration in late 2005, the packaging art style—now entirely drawn by Marcelo Matere—was changed to emulate the focused upper torso style seen in the ''Cybertron'' toyline, though the art was coloured more closely to the comic book style.
{{-}}

===Cybertron===
[[Image:Armorhide-UTA.jpg|left|100px|thumb|It's gonna be a Cybertronsical Transformertastic Snit in the [[Pit]]! Only $49.95 on Pay-Per-View!]]
''[[Transformers: Cybertron (toyline)|Cybertron]]'s'' packaging artwork headed in a dramatically different direction to the previous years, dropping the comic book style in favour of focusing on the upper torso of the character while they were in a 'ready to fight' pose, similar to the advertising [[Posters|posters]] of boxing matches. The artwork was drawn mostly by now-freelance ex-Dreamwave artists, and coloured in a style passably similar to the painted ''Generation 1''/''Generation 2'' art.
{{-}}

===Classics===
Similarly to ''Robots in Disguise'', the ''[[Transformers: Classics|Classics]]'' toyline was created as a 'filler' line, to plug the gap between the end of ''Cybertron'' and the beginning of the 2007 live action movie toyline. As such, Hasbro once again returned to using photographs of the toys instead of actual drawn artwork.

A feature of the packaging was a card on the front that, when moved, revealed one of the toy's modes.

===Masterpiece===
[[Image:MP Starscream book cover art.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Starscream in his elder years.]]
''[[The Transformers: Masterpiece| Masterpiece]]'' figures use photographs for their box art, but also have "real" package art on the covers of their [[Instructions|instruction booklets]] and on their included collectible cards.
{{-}}

===Robot Heroes===
''[[Robot Heroes (toyline)|Robot Heroes]]'' featured ''extremely'' cute [[Super deformed|super deformed]]-style artwork of the figures.

===Transformers (2007)===
[[Image:Blackout-packageart.jpg|left|100px|thumb|Like most movie characters, he could stab you with his head.]]
[[Image:Brawl-cyber-slammer-boxart.jpg|right|125px|thumb|Cyber Slammer [[Brawl (Movie)|Brawl]], adorable death machine.]]
The majority of the "main line" toys from the [[Movie (toyline)|2007 movie toyline]] featured a very exactingly detailed mugshot of the character (seemingly hand-painted), surrounded by technological greeblies. The characters featured in the film appear to use the movie models as a starting point, though there are some difference in coloration and detail.

In Europe, this art was replaced by a photo of the toy in robot mode, which was also used on the rear of the packaging. Some of this art (as well as the packaging design) was also used by several licensed merchandise manufacturers.

The [[Fast Action Battlers]] and [[Cyber Slammers]] sublines had traditional hand-drawn art, but done in a more rounded, 'cuter' style to fit the younger target age group of the toys.

The [[Real Gear Robot|Real Gear Robots]] opted to use a closeup photograph of the toy's upper torso, similarly to ''[[Transformers: Classics|Classics]]'', while the Target-exclusive Scout class range of redecos lacked any sort of packaging art.
{{-}}

===Transformers Animated===
[[Image:Prowl-animated-packageart.jpg|left|250px|thumb|Three annoying companions, two bladed mecha stars, and a ninja in a park tree.]]
[[Image:Ratchet-animated-packageart.jpg|right|85px|thumb|Grumpy bot for sale.]]
The ''[[Transformers Animated (franchise)|Transformers Animated]]'' line predominantly uses character model and promotional images from the actual [[Transformers Animated (cartoon)|Transformers Animated cartoon]], which is a first for the North American Transformers toyline.

The Deluxe packaging features a large image of the character, showing the bulk of their body and generally in an action pose, on the front of the plastic packaging bubble. A different image is used as a smaller mug shot on the side of the bubble and on the back of the card by their quote, possibly making ''Animated'' the first series to give each toy ''two'' unique pieces of character package art.

This layout is replicated for the Voyager size-class toys, though obviously the front and side images are printed on exterior cardboard.
{{-}}

===Universe (2008)===
[[Image:Prowl-universe2008-packageart.jpg|right|100px|thumb|DO NOT WANT]]
The all-new ''[[Transformers: Universe (2008 franchise)|Universe]]'' sees a return of comic book-style packaging art, with an upper torso drawing of the character printed either on the carded package or the box. To the amusement of all, some of the art also sees a return of the [[Dull surprise|glassy-eyed, slack-jawed expressions]] first seen during the days of Dreamwave Productions. Artist [[Marcelo Matere]] commented [http://mmatere.deviantart.com/art/Prowl-Classics-boxart-81892593?offset=10#comments on his deviantART page] that Hasbro had requested a more static, statue-like depiction for this line.
{{-}}

===Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen===
[[Image:ROTFBlowpipe_headdesign.JPG|thumb|150px|left|[[Blowpipe (ROTF)|Blowpipe]]'s package art.]]
[[Image:Demolishor-packageart.jpg|thumb|150px|right|[[Demolishor (ROTF)|Demolishor]]'s package art.]]
The return to the live-action movie toy line with ''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (toyline)|Revenge of the Fallen]]'' sees a return to minimalist character artwork. Instead of the 2007 movie line's head-on, forward-facing headshots, the ''Revenge of the Fallen'' toy line uses three-quarter profiles of the head.
{{-}}

===Transformers (2010)===
[[Image:Highbrow TF2010 boxart.jpg|thumb|left|110px|[[Highbrow (TF 2010)|Highbrow]]'s package art.]]
[[Image:SteamhammerPackageArt.jpg|thumb|right|150px|[[Steamhammer (PCC)|Steamhammer]] with his [[Constructicon (PCC)|Constructicons]]. PELVIC THRUST. WOOOO!]]
The secondary-title-less [[Transformers (2010 toyline)|2010 ''Transformers'' line]] changes the Voyager [[size class]], with ''all'' toys in that size now being packaged in [[robot mode]]. As a consequence, the package art now depicts each toy in its [[alternate mode]] on the front of the packaging, with the robot mode art being placed on the side of the packaging, just above the [[bio]]. The Leader-class and Scout-class toys remain packaged in their robot modes, so they get the same treatment, although the small size of the Scout class limits their art to their alternate mode. The [[Power Core Combiners]] are also packaged in robot mode, so the two-packs feature their combined alternate mode/[[Mini-Con]] art. The five-packs' package art only depicts the [[Combiner|combined robot]] mode, however.
{{-}}

===Dark of the Moon===
[[Image:DarkSteelPackagePic.jpg|thumb|right|200px|Darksteel's package art.]]
''[[Transformers: Dark of the Moon (toyline)|Dark of the Moon]]'' once again returned to the live-action movie-style minimalist character artwork, all the while taking some cues from the previous 2010 toyline. Instead of the 2009 ''Revenge of the Fallen'' line's three-quarter profiled head-shots, [[Optimus Prime (Movie)/toys#Deluxe_Class_toys_2|most]] Deluxe-class toys and all [[Cyberverse]] playsets now depict a rendered bust-like shot of the character, seen from a slightly upward angle and with the characters staring off into the distance. The Voyager, Leader, and Cyberverse Commander classes have rendered vehicle forms instead, also seen from an angle. The art itself takes a big step forward, with the renders themselves (which were made by [http://www.indigostudios.com/news/2011/07/1934/ Indigo Studios]) being ''ridiculously'' detailed and shiny, looking almost realistic and being as close to the live-action movie aesthetic as possible. This even applies to some non-film characters, like [[Space Case (DOTM)|Space Case]] and [[Darksteel]], who received incredibly detailed mugshots that make them look like they could plausibly be rendered and easily fit alongside the other robots on film.
{{-}}

==Japan==

===Generation 1===

[[TakaraTomy|Takara]] followed Hasbro's lead with regard to the packaging design of Transformers, with the vast majority of the character artwork for the first three years of the line being identical to their U.S. releases. In some instances however, Takara utilized different artwork from Hasbro for some of the line's figures, including among others alternate character artwork for Optimus Prime, [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]], [[Astrotrain (G1)|Astrotrain (white version)]], [[Trypticon (G1)|Trypticon]] and Fortress Maximus. Takara also had new artwork in the same style as the preceding Diaclone and Hasbro character artwork created for Japanese-only retail figures, and this artwork style was maintained through to the end of the Japanese Generation 1 run in 1992. In some (but not all) instances where a toy was released in different colors than the Hasbro release, the Hasbro artwork was simply reused with the appropriate modifications, such as [[Quickswitch]] and [[Sixknight]].

====Back of the box art====

For the back-of-box artwork Takara initially reused the 1984 painting for their initial releases in 1985, but later switched to a heavily modified version of Hasbro's 1985 back-of-box art, altered to include several more characters, most prominently [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]], while at the same time totally removing the non-Takara toys such as the [[Insecticon (G1)|Deluxe Insecticons]] and [[Jetfire (G1)|Jetfire]]. For 1986, Takara had a totally unique piece of artwork in a similar style spotlighting the 1986 Scramble City combiner and citybot toys, in addition to also reusing Jeffrey Mangiat's 1986 mural on other boxes. For 1987 and 1988, Takara again used the same back-of-box artwork as Hasbro, but 1989's [[Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Victory (toyline)|Victory]] line by necessity used a totally new piece of artwork spotlighting the unique-to-Japan toys. [[Transformers: Zone (toyline)|Zone]] did away with a fully painted battlescene, the back of the boxes simply including photographs of the main line. 1991's [[Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Return of Convoy (toyline)|Return of Convoy]] on the other hand had two new battlescenes painted for the line, one spotlighting Sky Garry and Grandus, and the other one appropriately featuring Star Convoy. [[Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Operation Combination (toyline)|Operation Combination]], like Zone, retained the painted character artwork but did not feature a new battlescene.

===Generation 2===

With the reintroduction of Transformers to Japan in 1995, Takara elected to try a new approach by utilizing computer generated models to represent the characters on the packaging instead of painted artwork.

===Beast Wars===

Takara initially returned to hand drawn artwork for the first several releases of their Beast Wars line in 1997, but rather than repurpose the U.S. artwork for the relevant toys, these were all-new renditions that, where appropriate, were based on the characters' visual appearance in the Beast Wars TV show (Optimus Primal having a mouth, for example). Shortly into the line, Takara abandoned the hand drawn artwork and returned to computer generated models, which were done in a style reminiscent of the Beast Wars animated series.

Takara continued this package style through the two subsequent "Beast" lines, [[Beast Wars II (toyline)|Beast Wars II]] and [[Super Lifeform Transformers: Beast Wars Neo (toyline)|Beast Wars Neo]], with only the [[Auto Roller|Auto Rollers]] using traditional-style box art. [[Super Lifeform Transformers: Beast Wars Metals (franchise)|Beast Wars Metals]] abandoned character artwork on the boxes altogether in favor of larger windows to show off the toys.

===Car Robots===

[[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (toyline)|Car Robots]] featured new computer-generated artwork on the line's boxed figures, with carded figures simply featuring the toy's corresponding collectors' card (complete with a CG rendition of the character) placed in a window above the figure.

===Micron Legend===

The [[Transformers: Armada (toyline)|Micron Legend]] toys, much like Generation 1 before it, simply repurposed the artwork as drawn by Dreamwave Productions. Also like later Generation 1 figures, Takara altered the colors of [[Tidal Wave (Armada)|some]] characters where necessary to reflect their slightly different colors in the Japanese marketplace, and had new artwork done for the [[Optimus Prime (Armada)/toys#Armada|Magna Convoy DX Set]] in a similar style.

===Super Link===

Consistent with the corresponding animated series, the [[Transformers: Energon (toyline)|Super Link]] toyline utilized CG artwork taken directly from the character models as used on the TV show.

===Galaxy Force===

As with Super Link before it, [[Transformers: Cybertron (toyline)|Galaxy Force]] simply used the character's CG models from the accompanying animated series as the character artwork on the boxes. In the cases of non-show characters like [[Buzzsaw (Cybertron)|Buzzsaw]] and [[Runamuck (Cybertron)|Runabout]], hand-drawn artwork was used instead.

===Henkei! Henkei!===

[[Henkei! Henkei! Transformers (toyline)|Henkei! Henkei!]] used both toy photography and original art for their packaging art. The first four waves ([[List of Japanese ID numbers#Henkei! Henkei!|C-01 to C-06 and D-01 to D-04]]), plus C-18 Minibot Attack Team and C-19 Minibot Spy Team used simple toy photos of them in robot mode, [[Jetfire (G1)#Henkei! Henkei!|Skyfire]] in vehicle mode. The remaining waves had hand-drawn artwork done by artist [[Naoto Tsushima]].
{{-}}

==Europe==
[[Image:AltPrimeUSEuro.jpg|right|200px|thumb|No deceptive advertising allowed.]]
For a long time, [[Multilingual packaging|European packaging]] had featured the same package artwork as the toys' respective North American versions (and, in the case of the European exclusive toys from the early Nineties, its own unique artwork). However, during the last waves of ''[[Transformers: Energon (toyline)|Energon]]'' (specifically, beginning with the second wave of the Superion Maximus limbs, [[Terradive (Energon)|Terradive]] and [[Windrazor (Energon)|Windrazor]]), the package art was replaced with airbrushed [[stock photography|stock photos]] of the toys themselves on European packaging. The same happened with European ''[[Transformers: Alternators| Alternators]]'' packaging starting with [[Windcharger (G1)#toys|Windcharger]] and [[Swindle (G1)#toys|Swindle]]. From then on, European ''Transformers'' packaging omitted any artistic renditions of the toys in favor of strictly accurate depictions of the products themselves (at least as "accurate" as Hasbro's early hand-painted/airbrushed prototype stock photography can be).

After the [[Robot Heroes (toyline)|Robot Heroes]] and [[Fast Action Battlers]] from the [[Movie (toyline)|2007 Movie toyline]] had started to feature package art for the European packaging again, this policy was abandoned entirely with the advent of ''[[Transformers Animated (toyline)|Animated]]'' and ''[[Transformers: Universe (2008 franchise)|Universe]]'' in 2008, resulting in a full-scale return of character artwork.

No official explanation for these changes has ever been given by Hasbro. The most likely reason is a newly introduced European Union guideline (subsequently implemented into national law) regarding "misleading advertising", which ''could'' be interpreted to extend to artistic renditions of products on the packaging, especially in [[:Image:SuperionMaximusCatalogArt.jpg|poses not actually possible with the toy]]. The question, however, is why artistic depictions suddenly became okay again several years later.
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==Canada and Central/South America==
[[Image:UniDelWave1CanMex.jpg|left|300px|thumb|It's ''Beast Machines'' all over again!]]
The [[Transformers: Universe (2008 franchise)|2008 ''Universe'']] line also saw a strange twist for the [[Multilingual packaging|trilingual packaging]] used by Hasbro for the Canadian and Central/South American markets: All the Deluxe Class figures only sport the character art of one "representative" toy per wave (Wave 1: [[Sunstreaker (G1)|Sunstreaker]], Wave 2: [[Acid Storm (G1)|Acid Storm]], Wave 3: [[Ironhide (G1)|Ironhide]]) on the front of the card, regardless of which toy actually ''is'' in the packaging. (The artwork on the side of the bubble is correct, though.) The Voyager Class toys, meanwhile, feature no character artwork on the front of the box at all.
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==Merchandise==
===Transformers Tapestry===
[[Image:TransformersTapestry.jpg|left|100px|thumb|Holy...]]
The [[e-HOBBY]] New Year Special 2008 [[Transformers Tapestry]] is a 750mm x 615mm wall scroll that was released in spring 2008. It featured head and bust shots of the box art of every Transformer released in Japan from 1984 until 1995.
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==External links==
*[http://www.botchthecrab.com/archive/ Botch's Transformers Box Art Archive] - covers Generation 1
*[http://pyresdomain.net/TF/BeastBoxArchive/ Pyre's Domain - Beast Wars Box Art Archive]

[[Category:Toys]]

Mark Watts

2012-06-16T17:54:20Z

Botch:

{{disambig3|Mark}}
[[Image:PackIn_HaveTheDecepticons_Inside1.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Probably not a self-portrait.]]

'''Mark Watts''' is an artist who produced [[package art]] and promotional art for Hasbro near the very beginning of the ''[[Generation 1 (franchise)|Generation 1]]'' era. He produced the package art for the [[Mini Vehicle#Generation_1|1984 mini-vehicles]] as well as [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] and [[Jetfire (G1)|Jetfire]].

Additionally, he painted at least two images used in toy pack-in flyers from the ''[[Generation 1 (franchise)|Generation 1]]'' era. One is from "[[Have the Decepticons defeated us once and for all?]]", and the other is from "[[Can one boy, alone, hold back the evil Decepticons?]]".

==External links==
[http://www.classiccreationsc.com/toy-illustration.html Mark Watts' portfolio site (Toy Illustrations)]

{{DEFAULTSORT:Watts, Mark}}
[[Category:Illustrators]]

Talk:Mark Watts

2012-06-16T17:43:57Z

Botch: New page: Hi! This is Botch of the [http://www.botchthecrab.com/archive|Transformers Box Art Archive]. I recently received an email from Mark Watts in which he asserts that he did the box art for th...

Hi! This is Botch of the [http://www.botchthecrab.com/archive|Transformers Box Art Archive]. I recently received an email from Mark Watts in which he asserts that he did the box art for the 1984 minibots as well as Shockwave and Jetfire. I believe him! I'm going to update this page and the [[Package art]] page as well.

P.S. I wanted to use my original Botch the Crab account, but couldn't gain access, so I created a new Botch one. I know, it sucks.