MediaWiki - User contributions [en]

Franchises

2017-08-25T19:12:12Z

Furhun: /* Hasbro franchises */ Fixed the overflow on the logos

[[File:Armadalogo.jpg|right|250px|]]
[[File:BWlogo.jpg|right|250px|]]
[[File:TF2007 Logo.jpg|right|250px|]]
[[File:Headmasters jplogo.jpg|right|250px|Headmasters jplogo.jpg]]
A '''franchise''', for lack of a better term, is an incarnation or "generation" of the [[Transformers brand]]. The word is used here to refer to the collection of not just [[toy]]s, but also media, merchandise, and ideas that surround each of these incarnations. Because of these other elements, the word "toyline" would not be broad enough; the toyline is just the toy component of the whole thing.

==Hasbro franchises==
There have been many franchises over the two decades that ''Transformers'' has been around. A list follows.

{{note|"Flagship" lines—generally those containing the bulk of new-mold toys and supported by an animated cartoon and other marketing—are listed in '''bold'''. Many of the minor "franchises" are little more than toylines, either with little or no fiction, or else new iterations of previous franchises, primarily ''Generation 1''.}}

[[File:G1logo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 1984–1991, 2001– : For the first eight years, there was no "franchise" as such; the brand of "'''[[The Transformers (franchise)|The Transformers]]'''" alone was used on the toyline and associated media (such as the [[The Transformers (cartoon)|Sunbow cartoon]] and [[The Transformers (Marvel comic)|Marvel comics]]). When that toyline was resurrected in the early 2000s, it was retroactively dubbed '''''Generation 1'''''. New ''Generation 1'' media and toys continue to be produced to this day.

*1990–1991: ''[[Classics (Europe)|Classics]]'' was the name of a ''Generation 1'' subline in Europe and Australia, reissuing many toys originating from 1984 through 1987.{{-}}

[[File:G2Logo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 1993–1995: '''''[[Transformers: Generation 2 (franchise)|Transformers: Generation 2]]''''' was a relaunch of the toy line, a mix of old and new toy designs. A new comic continued the story of the Marvel ''Generation 1'' comics, while the ''Generation 1'' cartoon was re-edited and rebroadcast.

[[File:BWlogo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 1996–2001: '''''[[Beast Wars: Transformers (franchise)|Beast Wars: Transformers]]''''' changed the direction of the line with robots that changed into "realistically"-styled animals and soon moved into other varieties of animal-[[Alternate mode|alt-mode]] robots. It was supported by a CGI cartoon.{{-}}

[[File:MW logo.jpg|right|upright=1.1|MW logo.jpg]]

* 1997: ''[[Machine Wars: Transformers]]'' was a limited line of redecorated older toys, released to capitalize on the popularity of ''Beast Wars''. Fiction was limited to on-package [[bio]]s.

* 1999: ''[[Animorphs]]'' was a short-lived franchise using the ''Transformers'' name but unrelated with regard to fictional backstory. As this line was in support of a non-Transformers fictional universe, no specific fiction was tied to the toy line.

[[File:BeastMachines Logo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2000–2001: '''''[[Beast Machines: Transformers (franchise)|Beast Machines: Transformers]]''''' continued the directions of ''Beast Wars'' and added futuristic vehicles to the mix. The latter portion of this franchise was subtitled "The Battle for the Spark". Like ''Beast Wars'', it was supported by a CGI cartoon.{{-}}

[[File:123tflogo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2001–2002: ''[[1-2-3 Transformers]]'' was a short-lived line of large, simple toys aimed at younger children. The line's niche was later filled by the ''Go-Bots'' line. No fiction exists for this franchise.

[[File:RIDlogo.png|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2001–2003: '''''[[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2001 franchise)|Transformers: Robots in Disguise]]''''' was a port of the Japanese ''Car Robots'' toyline and cartoon, padded out with additional toys in the United States. {{-}}

* 2002: ''[[Transformers: Expanded Universe]]'' was a short-lived labeling of [[BotCon]] toys. It was used solely for [[BotCon 2002]] and only consisted of [[CatSCAN]], [[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]], [[Glyph (Universe)|Glyph]], and [[Tap-Out (Universe)|Tap-Out]]. For simplicity, most people combine this line with the later ''Universe'' line.

[[File:Armadalogo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2002–2003: '''''[[Transformers: Armada (franchise)|Transformers: Armada]]''''' marked a new beginning for the toys and fiction, heralded by the addition of the [[Mini-Con]] faction. The latter portion of the franchise was subtitled "[[The Unicron Battles]]". It was marketed in Japan as ''Micron Legend''. The toyline was supported by a full cartoon series, comic book, pack-in mini-comics, on-line bios, and a great deal of ancillary merchandise. {{-}}

* 2002–2005: The ''[[The Transformers: Generation One Commemorative Series]]'' consisted of reissued toys from the first three years of ''Generation 1'', primarily available at Toys "R" Us. The toys had been previously reissued by Takara in Japan in the ''Transformers Collection'' line. As a reissue line, fiction was limited solely to on-package bios. Effectively ended in 2004, with two more delayed releases coming out in 2005.{{-}}

[[File:Universelogo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2003–2008: ''[[Transformers: Universe (2003 franchise)|Transformers: Universe]]'' supplemented the wildly successful ''Armada'' with [[redeco]]es of older toys and [[BotCon|convention]]-based fiction. Package blurbs provided a general fictional overview, and the line was briefly supported by a comic book. Largely ended in 2005, but still continued in one form or another until early 2008.

* 2003: ''[[Built to Rule]]'' consisted of Lego-compatible building blocks used to assemble various transformable ''Armada'' characters. It received no fiction independent of ''Armada''.{{-}}

[[File:Gobots logo.jpg|right|upright=1.1|Gobots logo.jpg]]

* 2002–2005: ''[[Transformers: Go-Bots (franchise)|Transformers: Go-Bots]]'', which also went by the names ''Playskool Big Adventures: Transformers'' and just ''Go-Bots'', introduced a line of larger, simple toys aimed at children too young for the mainline toys. Fiction included on-package bios and a short-lived cartoon.{{-}}

[[File:Energonlogo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2003–2005: '''''[[Transformers: Energon (franchise)|Transformers: Energon]]''''' followed up on ''Armada''. The latter portion of the franchise was subtitled "[[The Powerlinx Battles]]". It was marketed in Japan as ''Super Link''. Fiction included a full cartoon series, a comic book, pack-in mini-comics, and on-line bios.{{-}}

[[File:AlternatorsLogo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2003–2006: ''[[Transformers: Alternators]]'', a toy-only franchise, combined licensed, 1/24th-scale replica vehicles with complex transformations and ''Generation 1'' characters. It was marketed in Japan as ''Binaltech'', where the toys were packaged with bios and short stories that fleshed out the line's place in continuity. Sadly, the American franchise received no fiction beyond on-package character quotes for the later toys, a brief summary of the original setting of the Japanese ''Binaltech'' story revealed through a promotional Mazda website, and a single toy bio that was never officially released.{{-}}

[[File:Cybertron-Logo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2005–2006: '''''[[Transformers: Cybertron (franchise)|Transformers: Cybertron]]''''' completed the arc begun by ''Armada'', capping off the "[[Unicron Trilogy]]". The latter portion of the franchise was subtitled "Primus Unleashed". It was marketed in Japan as ''Galaxy Force''. Fiction included a cartoon, on-package blurbs and pack-in "Planet Maps" with character bios and profiles of various worlds.

* 2006–2008: ''[[Star Wars (franchise)|Star Wars Transformers]]'' combined the transforming play pattern with the characters and vehicles of the popular movie franchise. Fiction was limited to on-package bios, as this line was in support of a non-''Transformers'' fictional universe.

* 2006: The ''[[Transformers: Beast Wars 10th Anniversary]]'' limited line featured six reissues of older ''Beast Wars'' toys with special packaging, new decos and bonus features, and two all-new molds. Fiction included on-package bios and pack-in DVDs of ''Beast Wars'' cartoon episodes.{{-}}

[[File:Classicslogo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2006–2007: ''[[Transformers: Classics|Classics]]'' was a line of rehashed ''Generation 1'' characters intended to be a stopgap while the 2007 movie toys were being prepared. Its success prompted Hasbro to continue it as the "Classic Series" under the 2008 ''Universe'' line. Fiction was limited to a fan club comic.

* 2006–2009: The ''[[Titanium Series]]'' was aimed specifically at fans, with a range of characters from older franchises and more obscure corners of the fiction, and die-cast metal designs. As the characters are all based on previous franchises, fiction consisted solely of on-package bios. Effectively ended in 2007, with a few delayed releases coming out as [[exclusive]]s as late as 2009. Later releases were [[co-branding|co-branded]] as part of the ''Movie'' line, ''Universe'' or ''Revenge of the Fallen''.{{-}}

[[File:TF2007 Logo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2007–2008: The "'''[[Movie (franchise)|Movie]]'''" franchise marked a new level for Transformers, with [[Transformers (film)|''Transformers'']] as its centerpiece. The later portion of the toyline, primarily consisting of redecos, was subtitled "[[AllSpark Power]]", followed by a short-lived second expansion, the [[Premium Series]]. In addition to the movie itself, fiction included various comics, bios, package blurbs, and other ancillary merchandise.{{-}}

[[File:Transformersanimated franchise logo.png|right|upright=1.1|Transformersanimated franchise logo.png]]

* 2008– : '''''[[Transformers Animated (franchise)|Transformers Animated]]''''' is the first American-written cartoon franchise in just under a decade. It carries on the brand with a new look and some old familiar faces. Fiction includes the cartoon, a comic book series, and on-package bios.{{-}}

[[File:Universe2008Logo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2008–2009: ''[[Transformers: Universe (2008 franchise)|Transformers: Universe]]'' re-uses the catch-all name of several years prior, but is a new umbrella franchise covering products not falling under either ''Crossovers'' or ''Animated''. It is not slated to receive any fiction except for on-package bios.

* 2008– : ''[[Transformers: Crossovers]]'' rebrands the ''Star Wars Transformers'' line, as well as bringing in transforming Marvel characters, following Hasbro's acquisition of the Marvel license.{{-}}

[[File:Revenge fallen logo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2009–2010: '''''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (franchise)|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen]]''''' continues in the [[Live-action film series|live-action film]] direction begun by [[Transformers (film)|''Transformers'']]. The later portion of the toyline, was subtitled "[[N.E.S.T. Global Alliance]]". {{-}}

[[File:Transformerswarforcybertron.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2010: '''''[[Transformers: War for Cybertron (franchise)|Transformers: War for Cybertron]]''''' is the first franchise in the [[Aligned continuity family]]. {{-}}

* 2010– : ''[[Transformers: Generations]]'' continues on from 2008's Universe to be the catch-all franchise covering products not falling under the concurrent ''[[Transformers (2010 toyline)|Transformers (2010)]]'' toyline. It is not slated to receive any fiction except for on-package bios although it includes characters from the game ''[[Transformers: War for Cybertron (games)|War for Cybertron]]''.{{-}}

* 2010–2011: the non-subtitled ''[[Transformers (2010 toyline)|Transformers]]'' toyline builds on the ''Revenge of the Fallen'' toyline but also includes other toys and characters, acting as a general celebration of the Transformers lineage. Sub-sections of this franchise include the [[Hunt for the Decepticons]] promotion and the [[Reveal the Shield]] subline. Reveal the Shield covers the same territory as the concurrent ''Generations'' line, recreating classic characters with new modern designs.

[[File:Transformersprimelogo.png|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2010– : '''''[[Transformers: Prime (franchise)|Transformers: Prime]]''''' is intended to serve as a basis for the core Transformers line for some time to come. The line began with video games, comics, and a CGI TV show. The toyline began in late 2011 with the subline "First Edition", followed by "Robots in Disguise" in early 2012. {{-}}

[[File:TransformersDOTMLogo-trans.png|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2011: '''''[[Transformers: Dark of the Moon (franchise)|Transformers: Dark of the Moon]]''''' is built around the third live-action feature film. {{-}}

[[File:TransformersAgeOfExtinctionLogoDarkOnLight.png|right|upright=1.1|500px]]

* 2014: '''''[[Transformers: Age of Extinction (franchise)|Transformers: Age of Extinction]]''''' is built around the fourth live-action feature film. {{-}}

[[File:TransformersTheLastKnightLogo.jpg|right|upright=1.1|500px]]

* 2017: '''''[[Transformers: The Last Knight (franchise)|Transformers: The Last Knight]]''''' is built around the fifth live-action feature film. {{-}}

==Takara franchises==
===Generation 1===
Beginning in 1986, (the second year of the franchise in Japan), [[TakaraTomy|Takara]] got into the habit of annually [[rebranding]] the ''Transformers'' property. Moreover, 1987's ''[[Transformers: The Headmasters (franchise)|Transformers: The Headmasters]]'' kicked off a trend in which Takara's toylines and fiction branched off from [[Hasbro]]'s versions to increasingly significant degrees. Thus, the later iterations of Japanese Generation 1 are often referred to as "franchises", despite being part of the larger Generation 1 franchise. They include:

*1985: ''[[Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers (franchise)|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers]]''
*1986: ''[[Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers 2010 (franchise)|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers]]''
*1987: ''[[Transformers: The Headmasters (franchise)|Transformers: The Headmasters]]''
*1988: ''[[Transformers: Super-God Masterforce (franchise)|Transformers: Super-God Masterforce]]''
*1989: ''[[Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Victory (franchise)|Victory]]''
*1990: ''[[Transformers: Zone (franchise)|Transformers: Zone]]''
*1991: ''[[Transformers: Return of Convoy (franchise)|Transformers: Return of Convoy]]''
*1992: ''[[Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Operation Combination (franchise)|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Operation Combination]]''

===Beast Wars===
To fill the sometimes-lengthy gap between the seasons of the ''Beast Wars'' television show, Takara decided to augment that series with two Japanese-exclusive franchises.

*1998: ''[[Beast Wars II: Super Lifeform Transformers (franchise)|Beast Wars II: Super Lifeform Transformers]]'', with a toyline mostly consisting of redecorated existing ''Beast Wars'' toys.

*1999: ''[[Super Lifeform Transformers: Beast Wars Neo (franchise)|Beast Wars Neo: Super Lifeform Transformers]]'', numerous new molds with additional redecos.

===Post-Beast Wars===
* 2000: ''[[Transformers: Car Robots]]'' was a mixed line of complex new molds and redecorated toys from previous lines. An expanded version was later marketed in America as ''Robots in Disguise''.

*2002–2004: ''[[The Transformers: Micromaster|Micromaster]]'' re-released the various Japanese-exclusive Micromaster combining teams from late in the Generation 1 era.

*2002-2006: ''[[The Transformers Collection]]'' consisted of book-boxed reissues of toys from the early years of Generation 1. Many of the same toys would subsequently be reissued in the United States in the ''Commemorative Series'' line.

*2003: ''[[Smallest Transforming Transformers]]'' (often mislabeled "World's Smallest Transformers") reworked early Generation 1 toys at extremely small scale.

*2003–2008: ''[[Binaltech]]'', Japan's version of ''Alternators''. Originally ended in 2006, later reanimated.

*2003– : ''[[The Transformers: Masterpiece]]'' is a collector-oriented series of "ultimate" versions of classic Generation 1 characters, with great complexity and high prices.

*2004–2005: ''[[Robotmasters (franchise)|Robotmasters]]'' was a line of mixed heritage, collecting characters from several continuities. Most of its toys were redecos or new designs based on larger toys reduced in scale.

*2006–2007: ''[[Transformers: Kiss Players (franchise)|Transformers: Kiss Players]]'' picked up the tail end of the ''Binaltech''/''Alternators'' toyline, but with an all-new, all-creepy storyline.

*2007: The ''[[Transformers: Beast Wars Telemocha Series]]'' was Japan's expanded equivalent of the ''Beast Wars 10th Anniversary'' line.

*2007– : ''[[Transformers Encore]]'' revives the trend of reissuing older Generation 1 toys, including many not previously available in Japan.

*2007– : ''[[Henkei! Henkei! Transformers (franchise)|Henkei! Henkei! Transformers]]'' uses the molds created for the 2007 ''Classics'' and 2008 ''Universe'' lines and gives them color schemes more accurate to the original Generation 1 cartoon. Fiction exists in the form of a pack-in comic.

*2013– : ''[[Triple Combination: Transformers Go! (franchise)|Triple Combination: Transformers Go!]]'' is a Japanese sequel to ''Transformers: Prime''.

===Other franchises===
*2003: ''[[Kids' Transformers: Rescue Hero Go-Bots (franchise)|Kids' Transformers: Rescue Hero Go-Bots]]'' is Takara's answer to Hasbro's ''1-2-3 Transformers'' and ''Transformers: Go-Bots'' lines, using molds from both to create a separate line.

==Merchandising franchises==
Several lines of non-transforming figures have been released, capitalizing on the popularity of the ''Transformers'' characters.

* 2000–?: [[Super Collection Figure]], a Japanese line of PVC figures based on character models from the Generation 1 cartoon. It was later marketed in America as ''Heroes of Cybertron'', with some minor alterations.
* 2002–2003: [[MyClone]], a Transformers iteration of a super-deformed figure line in Japan.
* 2007: ''[[Robot Heroes (toyline)|Robot Heroes]]'', adorably cute figurines of various characters. It started out under the ''Movie'' banner (despite originally containing toys based on Generation 1 characters), then continued under ''Universe'' (2008) and ''Revenge of the Fallen''.

{{stub}}

[[Category:Fandom]]
[[Category:Franchises|*]]

Franchises

2017-08-25T19:06:30Z

Furhun: /* Hasbro franchises */ Added the logos for TLK and AOE

[[File:Armadalogo.jpg|right|250px|]]
[[File:BWlogo.jpg|right|250px|]]
[[File:TF2007 Logo.jpg|right|250px|]]
[[File:Headmasters jplogo.jpg|right|250px|Headmasters jplogo.jpg]]
A '''franchise''', for lack of a better term, is an incarnation or "generation" of the [[Transformers brand]]. The word is used here to refer to the collection of not just [[toy]]s, but also media, merchandise, and ideas that surround each of these incarnations. Because of these other elements, the word "toyline" would not be broad enough; the toyline is just the toy component of the whole thing.

==Hasbro franchises==
There have been many franchises over the two decades that ''Transformers'' has been around. A list follows.

{{note|"Flagship" lines—generally those containing the bulk of new-mold toys and supported by an animated cartoon and other marketing—are listed in '''bold'''. Many of the minor "franchises" are little more than toylines, either with little or no fiction, or else new iterations of previous franchises, primarily ''Generation 1''.}}

[[File:G1logo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 1984–1991, 2001– : For the first eight years, there was no "franchise" as such; the brand of "'''[[The Transformers (franchise)|The Transformers]]'''" alone was used on the toyline and associated media (such as the [[The Transformers (cartoon)|Sunbow cartoon]] and [[The Transformers (Marvel comic)|Marvel comics]]). When that toyline was resurrected in the early 2000s, it was retroactively dubbed '''''Generation 1'''''. New ''Generation 1'' media and toys continue to be produced to this day.

*1990–1991: ''[[Classics (Europe)|Classics]]'' was the name of a ''Generation 1'' subline in Europe and Australia, reissuing many toys originating from 1984 through 1987.{{-}}

[[File:G2Logo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 1993–1995: '''''[[Transformers: Generation 2 (franchise)|Transformers: Generation 2]]''''' was a relaunch of the toy line, a mix of old and new toy designs. A new comic continued the story of the Marvel ''Generation 1'' comics, while the ''Generation 1'' cartoon was re-edited and rebroadcast.

[[File:BWlogo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 1996–2001: '''''[[Beast Wars: Transformers (franchise)|Beast Wars: Transformers]]''''' changed the direction of the line with robots that changed into "realistically"-styled animals and soon moved into other varieties of animal-[[Alternate mode|alt-mode]] robots. It was supported by a CGI cartoon.{{-}}

[[File:MW logo.jpg|right|upright=1.1|MW logo.jpg]]

* 1997: ''[[Machine Wars: Transformers]]'' was a limited line of redecorated older toys, released to capitalize on the popularity of ''Beast Wars''. Fiction was limited to on-package [[bio]]s.

* 1999: ''[[Animorphs]]'' was a short-lived franchise using the ''Transformers'' name but unrelated with regard to fictional backstory. As this line was in support of a non-Transformers fictional universe, no specific fiction was tied to the toy line.

[[File:BeastMachines Logo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2000–2001: '''''[[Beast Machines: Transformers (franchise)|Beast Machines: Transformers]]''''' continued the directions of ''Beast Wars'' and added futuristic vehicles to the mix. The latter portion of this franchise was subtitled "The Battle for the Spark". Like ''Beast Wars'', it was supported by a CGI cartoon.{{-}}

[[File:123tflogo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2001–2002: ''[[1-2-3 Transformers]]'' was a short-lived line of large, simple toys aimed at younger children. The line's niche was later filled by the ''Go-Bots'' line. No fiction exists for this franchise.

[[File:RIDlogo.png|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2001–2003: '''''[[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2001 franchise)|Transformers: Robots in Disguise]]''''' was a port of the Japanese ''Car Robots'' toyline and cartoon, padded out with additional toys in the United States. {{-}}

* 2002: ''[[Transformers: Expanded Universe]]'' was a short-lived labeling of [[BotCon]] toys. It was used solely for [[BotCon 2002]] and only consisted of [[CatSCAN]], [[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]], [[Glyph (Universe)|Glyph]], and [[Tap-Out (Universe)|Tap-Out]]. For simplicity, most people combine this line with the later ''Universe'' line.

[[File:Armadalogo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2002–2003: '''''[[Transformers: Armada (franchise)|Transformers: Armada]]''''' marked a new beginning for the toys and fiction, heralded by the addition of the [[Mini-Con]] faction. The latter portion of the franchise was subtitled "[[The Unicron Battles]]". It was marketed in Japan as ''Micron Legend''. The toyline was supported by a full cartoon series, comic book, pack-in mini-comics, on-line bios, and a great deal of ancillary merchandise. {{-}}

* 2002–2005: The ''[[The Transformers: Generation One Commemorative Series]]'' consisted of reissued toys from the first three years of ''Generation 1'', primarily available at Toys "R" Us. The toys had been previously reissued by Takara in Japan in the ''Transformers Collection'' line. As a reissue line, fiction was limited solely to on-package bios. Effectively ended in 2004, with two more delayed releases coming out in 2005.{{-}}

[[File:Universelogo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2003–2008: ''[[Transformers: Universe (2003 franchise)|Transformers: Universe]]'' supplemented the wildly successful ''Armada'' with [[redeco]]es of older toys and [[BotCon|convention]]-based fiction. Package blurbs provided a general fictional overview, and the line was briefly supported by a comic book. Largely ended in 2005, but still continued in one form or another until early 2008.

* 2003: ''[[Built to Rule]]'' consisted of Lego-compatible building blocks used to assemble various transformable ''Armada'' characters. It received no fiction independent of ''Armada''.{{-}}

[[File:Gobots logo.jpg|right|upright=1.1|Gobots logo.jpg]]

* 2002–2005: ''[[Transformers: Go-Bots (franchise)|Transformers: Go-Bots]]'', which also went by the names ''Playskool Big Adventures: Transformers'' and just ''Go-Bots'', introduced a line of larger, simple toys aimed at children too young for the mainline toys. Fiction included on-package bios and a short-lived cartoon.{{-}}

[[File:Energonlogo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2003–2005: '''''[[Transformers: Energon (franchise)|Transformers: Energon]]''''' followed up on ''Armada''. The latter portion of the franchise was subtitled "[[The Powerlinx Battles]]". It was marketed in Japan as ''Super Link''. Fiction included a full cartoon series, a comic book, pack-in mini-comics, and on-line bios.{{-}}

[[File:AlternatorsLogo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2003–2006: ''[[Transformers: Alternators]]'', a toy-only franchise, combined licensed, 1/24th-scale replica vehicles with complex transformations and ''Generation 1'' characters. It was marketed in Japan as ''Binaltech'', where the toys were packaged with bios and short stories that fleshed out the line's place in continuity. Sadly, the American franchise received no fiction beyond on-package character quotes for the later toys, a brief summary of the original setting of the Japanese ''Binaltech'' story revealed through a promotional Mazda website, and a single toy bio that was never officially released.{{-}}

[[File:Cybertron-Logo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2005–2006: '''''[[Transformers: Cybertron (franchise)|Transformers: Cybertron]]''''' completed the arc begun by ''Armada'', capping off the "[[Unicron Trilogy]]". The latter portion of the franchise was subtitled "Primus Unleashed". It was marketed in Japan as ''Galaxy Force''. Fiction included a cartoon, on-package blurbs and pack-in "Planet Maps" with character bios and profiles of various worlds.

* 2006–2008: ''[[Star Wars (franchise)|Star Wars Transformers]]'' combined the transforming play pattern with the characters and vehicles of the popular movie franchise. Fiction was limited to on-package bios, as this line was in support of a non-''Transformers'' fictional universe.

* 2006: The ''[[Transformers: Beast Wars 10th Anniversary]]'' limited line featured six reissues of older ''Beast Wars'' toys with special packaging, new decos and bonus features, and two all-new molds. Fiction included on-package bios and pack-in DVDs of ''Beast Wars'' cartoon episodes.{{-}}

[[File:Classicslogo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2006–2007: ''[[Transformers: Classics|Classics]]'' was a line of rehashed ''Generation 1'' characters intended to be a stopgap while the 2007 movie toys were being prepared. Its success prompted Hasbro to continue it as the "Classic Series" under the 2008 ''Universe'' line. Fiction was limited to a fan club comic.

* 2006–2009: The ''[[Titanium Series]]'' was aimed specifically at fans, with a range of characters from older franchises and more obscure corners of the fiction, and die-cast metal designs. As the characters are all based on previous franchises, fiction consisted solely of on-package bios. Effectively ended in 2007, with a few delayed releases coming out as [[exclusive]]s as late as 2009. Later releases were [[co-branding|co-branded]] as part of the ''Movie'' line, ''Universe'' or ''Revenge of the Fallen''.{{-}}

[[File:TF2007 Logo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2007–2008: The "'''[[Movie (franchise)|Movie]]'''" franchise marked a new level for Transformers, with [[Transformers (film)|''Transformers'']] as its centerpiece. The later portion of the toyline, primarily consisting of redecos, was subtitled "[[AllSpark Power]]", followed by a short-lived second expansion, the [[Premium Series]]. In addition to the movie itself, fiction included various comics, bios, package blurbs, and other ancillary merchandise.{{-}}

[[File:Transformersanimated franchise logo.png|right|upright=1.1|Transformersanimated franchise logo.png]]

* 2008– : '''''[[Transformers Animated (franchise)|Transformers Animated]]''''' is the first American-written cartoon franchise in just under a decade. It carries on the brand with a new look and some old familiar faces. Fiction includes the cartoon, a comic book series, and on-package bios.{{-}}

[[File:Universe2008Logo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2008–2009: ''[[Transformers: Universe (2008 franchise)|Transformers: Universe]]'' re-uses the catch-all name of several years prior, but is a new umbrella franchise covering products not falling under either ''Crossovers'' or ''Animated''. It is not slated to receive any fiction except for on-package bios.

* 2008– : ''[[Transformers: Crossovers]]'' rebrands the ''Star Wars Transformers'' line, as well as bringing in transforming Marvel characters, following Hasbro's acquisition of the Marvel license.{{-}}

[[File:Revenge fallen logo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2009–2010: '''''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (franchise)|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen]]''''' continues in the [[Live-action film series|live-action film]] direction begun by [[Transformers (film)|''Transformers'']]. The later portion of the toyline, was subtitled "[[N.E.S.T. Global Alliance]]". {{-}}

[[File:Transformerswarforcybertron.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

*2010: '''''[[Transformers: War for Cybertron (franchise)|Transformers: War for Cybertron]]''''' is the first franchise in the [[Aligned continuity family]]. {{-}}

*2010– : ''[[Transformers: Generations]]'' continues on from 2008's Universe to be the catch-all franchise covering products not falling under the concurrent ''[[Transformers (2010 toyline)|Transformers (2010)]]'' toyline. It is not slated to receive any fiction except for on-package bios although it includes characters from the game ''[[Transformers: War for Cybertron (games)|War for Cybertron]]''.{{-}}

*2010–2011: the non-subtitled ''[[Transformers (2010 toyline)|Transformers]]'' toyline builds on the ''Revenge of the Fallen'' toyline but also includes other toys and characters, acting as a general celebration of the Transformers lineage. Sub-sections of this franchise include the [[Hunt for the Decepticons]] promotion and the [[Reveal the Shield]] subline. Reveal the Shield covers the same territory as the concurrent ''Generations'' line, recreating classic characters with new modern designs.

[[File:Transformersprimelogo.png|right|upright=1.1]]

*2010– : '''''[[Transformers: Prime (franchise)|Transformers: Prime]]''''' is intended to serve as a basis for the core Transformers line for some time to come. The line began with video games, comics, and a CGI TV show. The toyline began in late 2011 with the subline "First Edition", followed by "Robots in Disguise" in early 2012. {{-}}

[[File:TransformersDOTMLogo-trans.png|right|upright=1.1]]

*2011: '''''[[Transformers: Dark of the Moon (franchise)|Transformers: Dark of the Moon]]''''' is built around the third live-action feature film. {{-}}

*2014: '''''[[Transformers: Age of Extinction (franchise)|Transformers: Age of Extinction]]''''' is built around the fourth live-action feature film. {{-}}

[[File:TransformersAgeOfExtinctionLogoDarkOnLight.png|right|upright=1.1|500px]]

*2017: '''''[[Transformers: The Last Knight (franchise)|Transformers: The Last Knight]]''''' is built around the fifth live-action feature film. {{-}}

[[File:TransformersTheLastKnightLogo.jpg|right|upright=1.1|500px]]

==Takara franchises==
===Generation 1===
Beginning in 1986, (the second year of the franchise in Japan), [[TakaraTomy|Takara]] got into the habit of annually [[rebranding]] the ''Transformers'' property. Moreover, 1987's ''[[Transformers: The Headmasters (franchise)|Transformers: The Headmasters]]'' kicked off a trend in which Takara's toylines and fiction branched off from [[Hasbro]]'s versions to increasingly significant degrees. Thus, the later iterations of Japanese Generation 1 are often referred to as "franchises", despite being part of the larger Generation 1 franchise. They include:

*1985: ''[[Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers (franchise)|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers]]''
*1986: ''[[Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers 2010 (franchise)|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers]]''
*1987: ''[[Transformers: The Headmasters (franchise)|Transformers: The Headmasters]]''
*1988: ''[[Transformers: Super-God Masterforce (franchise)|Transformers: Super-God Masterforce]]''
*1989: ''[[Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Victory (franchise)|Victory]]''
*1990: ''[[Transformers: Zone (franchise)|Transformers: Zone]]''
*1991: ''[[Transformers: Return of Convoy (franchise)|Transformers: Return of Convoy]]''
*1992: ''[[Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Operation Combination (franchise)|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Operation Combination]]''

===Beast Wars===
To fill the sometimes-lengthy gap between the seasons of the ''Beast Wars'' television show, Takara decided to augment that series with two Japanese-exclusive franchises.

*1998: ''[[Beast Wars II: Super Lifeform Transformers (franchise)|Beast Wars II: Super Lifeform Transformers]]'', with a toyline mostly consisting of redecorated existing ''Beast Wars'' toys.

*1999: ''[[Super Lifeform Transformers: Beast Wars Neo (franchise)|Beast Wars Neo: Super Lifeform Transformers]]'', numerous new molds with additional redecos.

===Post-Beast Wars===
* 2000: ''[[Transformers: Car Robots]]'' was a mixed line of complex new molds and redecorated toys from previous lines. An expanded version was later marketed in America as ''Robots in Disguise''.

*2002–2004: ''[[The Transformers: Micromaster|Micromaster]]'' re-released the various Japanese-exclusive Micromaster combining teams from late in the Generation 1 era.

*2002-2006: ''[[The Transformers Collection]]'' consisted of book-boxed reissues of toys from the early years of Generation 1. Many of the same toys would subsequently be reissued in the United States in the ''Commemorative Series'' line.

*2003: ''[[Smallest Transforming Transformers]]'' (often mislabeled "World's Smallest Transformers") reworked early Generation 1 toys at extremely small scale.

*2003–2008: ''[[Binaltech]]'', Japan's version of ''Alternators''. Originally ended in 2006, later reanimated.

*2003– : ''[[The Transformers: Masterpiece]]'' is a collector-oriented series of "ultimate" versions of classic Generation 1 characters, with great complexity and high prices.

*2004–2005: ''[[Robotmasters (franchise)|Robotmasters]]'' was a line of mixed heritage, collecting characters from several continuities. Most of its toys were redecos or new designs based on larger toys reduced in scale.

*2006–2007: ''[[Transformers: Kiss Players (franchise)|Transformers: Kiss Players]]'' picked up the tail end of the ''Binaltech''/''Alternators'' toyline, but with an all-new, all-creepy storyline.

*2007: The ''[[Transformers: Beast Wars Telemocha Series]]'' was Japan's expanded equivalent of the ''Beast Wars 10th Anniversary'' line.

*2007– : ''[[Transformers Encore]]'' revives the trend of reissuing older Generation 1 toys, including many not previously available in Japan.

*2007– : ''[[Henkei! Henkei! Transformers (franchise)|Henkei! Henkei! Transformers]]'' uses the molds created for the 2007 ''Classics'' and 2008 ''Universe'' lines and gives them color schemes more accurate to the original Generation 1 cartoon. Fiction exists in the form of a pack-in comic.

*2013– : ''[[Triple Combination: Transformers Go! (franchise)|Triple Combination: Transformers Go!]]'' is a Japanese sequel to ''Transformers: Prime''.

===Other franchises===
*2003: ''[[Kids' Transformers: Rescue Hero Go-Bots (franchise)|Kids' Transformers: Rescue Hero Go-Bots]]'' is Takara's answer to Hasbro's ''1-2-3 Transformers'' and ''Transformers: Go-Bots'' lines, using molds from both to create a separate line.

==Merchandising franchises==
Several lines of non-transforming figures have been released, capitalizing on the popularity of the ''Transformers'' characters.

* 2000–?: [[Super Collection Figure]], a Japanese line of PVC figures based on character models from the Generation 1 cartoon. It was later marketed in America as ''Heroes of Cybertron'', with some minor alterations.
* 2002–2003: [[MyClone]], a Transformers iteration of a super-deformed figure line in Japan.
* 2007: ''[[Robot Heroes (toyline)|Robot Heroes]]'', adorably cute figurines of various characters. It started out under the ''Movie'' banner (despite originally containing toys based on Generation 1 characters), then continued under ''Universe'' (2008) and ''Revenge of the Fallen''.

{{stub}}

[[Category:Fandom]]
[[Category:Franchises|*]]

Franchises

2017-08-25T18:52:59Z

Furhun: /* Hasbro franchises */ Added the last two live-action films.

[[File:Armadalogo.jpg|right|250px|]]
[[File:BWlogo.jpg|right|250px|]]
[[File:TF2007 Logo.jpg|right|250px|]]
[[File:Headmasters jplogo.jpg|right|250px|Headmasters jplogo.jpg]]
A '''franchise''', for lack of a better term, is an incarnation or "generation" of the [[Transformers brand]]. The word is used here to refer to the collection of not just [[toy]]s, but also media, merchandise, and ideas that surround each of these incarnations. Because of these other elements, the word "toyline" would not be broad enough; the toyline is just the toy component of the whole thing.

==Hasbro franchises==
There have been many franchises over the two decades that ''Transformers'' has been around. A list follows.

{{note|"Flagship" lines—generally those containing the bulk of new-mold toys and supported by an animated cartoon and other marketing—are listed in '''bold'''. Many of the minor "franchises" are little more than toylines, either with little or no fiction, or else new iterations of previous franchises, primarily ''Generation 1''.}}

[[File:G1logo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 1984–1991, 2001– : For the first eight years, there was no "franchise" as such; the brand of "'''[[The Transformers (franchise)|The Transformers]]'''" alone was used on the toyline and associated media (such as the [[The Transformers (cartoon)|Sunbow cartoon]] and [[The Transformers (Marvel comic)|Marvel comics]]). When that toyline was resurrected in the early 2000s, it was retroactively dubbed '''''Generation 1'''''. New ''Generation 1'' media and toys continue to be produced to this day.

*1990–1991: ''[[Classics (Europe)|Classics]]'' was the name of a ''Generation 1'' subline in Europe and Australia, reissuing many toys originating from 1984 through 1987.{{-}}

[[File:G2Logo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 1993–1995: '''''[[Transformers: Generation 2 (franchise)|Transformers: Generation 2]]''''' was a relaunch of the toy line, a mix of old and new toy designs. A new comic continued the story of the Marvel ''Generation 1'' comics, while the ''Generation 1'' cartoon was re-edited and rebroadcast.

[[File:BWlogo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 1996–2001: '''''[[Beast Wars: Transformers (franchise)|Beast Wars: Transformers]]''''' changed the direction of the line with robots that changed into "realistically"-styled animals and soon moved into other varieties of animal-[[Alternate mode|alt-mode]] robots. It was supported by a CGI cartoon.{{-}}

[[File:MW logo.jpg|right|upright=1.1|MW logo.jpg]]

* 1997: ''[[Machine Wars: Transformers]]'' was a limited line of redecorated older toys, released to capitalize on the popularity of ''Beast Wars''. Fiction was limited to on-package [[bio]]s.

* 1999: ''[[Animorphs]]'' was a short-lived franchise using the ''Transformers'' name but unrelated with regard to fictional backstory. As this line was in support of a non-Transformers fictional universe, no specific fiction was tied to the toy line.

[[File:BeastMachines Logo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2000–2001: '''''[[Beast Machines: Transformers (franchise)|Beast Machines: Transformers]]''''' continued the directions of ''Beast Wars'' and added futuristic vehicles to the mix. The latter portion of this franchise was subtitled "The Battle for the Spark". Like ''Beast Wars'', it was supported by a CGI cartoon.{{-}}

[[File:123tflogo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2001–2002: ''[[1-2-3 Transformers]]'' was a short-lived line of large, simple toys aimed at younger children. The line's niche was later filled by the ''Go-Bots'' line. No fiction exists for this franchise.

[[File:RIDlogo.png|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2001–2003: '''''[[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2001 franchise)|Transformers: Robots in Disguise]]''''' was a port of the Japanese ''Car Robots'' toyline and cartoon, padded out with additional toys in the United States. {{-}}

* 2002: ''[[Transformers: Expanded Universe]]'' was a short-lived labeling of [[BotCon]] toys. It was used solely for [[BotCon 2002]] and only consisted of [[CatSCAN]], [[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]], [[Glyph (Universe)|Glyph]], and [[Tap-Out (Universe)|Tap-Out]]. For simplicity, most people combine this line with the later ''Universe'' line.

[[File:Armadalogo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2002–2003: '''''[[Transformers: Armada (franchise)|Transformers: Armada]]''''' marked a new beginning for the toys and fiction, heralded by the addition of the [[Mini-Con]] faction. The latter portion of the franchise was subtitled "[[The Unicron Battles]]". It was marketed in Japan as ''Micron Legend''. The toyline was supported by a full cartoon series, comic book, pack-in mini-comics, on-line bios, and a great deal of ancillary merchandise. {{-}}

* 2002–2005: The ''[[The Transformers: Generation One Commemorative Series]]'' consisted of reissued toys from the first three years of ''Generation 1'', primarily available at Toys "R" Us. The toys had been previously reissued by Takara in Japan in the ''Transformers Collection'' line. As a reissue line, fiction was limited solely to on-package bios. Effectively ended in 2004, with two more delayed releases coming out in 2005.{{-}}

[[File:Universelogo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2003–2008: ''[[Transformers: Universe (2003 franchise)|Transformers: Universe]]'' supplemented the wildly successful ''Armada'' with [[redeco]]es of older toys and [[BotCon|convention]]-based fiction. Package blurbs provided a general fictional overview, and the line was briefly supported by a comic book. Largely ended in 2005, but still continued in one form or another until early 2008.

* 2003: ''[[Built to Rule]]'' consisted of Lego-compatible building blocks used to assemble various transformable ''Armada'' characters. It received no fiction independent of ''Armada''.{{-}}

[[File:Gobots logo.jpg|right|upright=1.1|Gobots logo.jpg]]

* 2002–2005: ''[[Transformers: Go-Bots (franchise)|Transformers: Go-Bots]]'', which also went by the names ''Playskool Big Adventures: Transformers'' and just ''Go-Bots'', introduced a line of larger, simple toys aimed at children too young for the mainline toys. Fiction included on-package bios and a short-lived cartoon.{{-}}

[[File:Energonlogo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2003–2005: '''''[[Transformers: Energon (franchise)|Transformers: Energon]]''''' followed up on ''Armada''. The latter portion of the franchise was subtitled "[[The Powerlinx Battles]]". It was marketed in Japan as ''Super Link''. Fiction included a full cartoon series, a comic book, pack-in mini-comics, and on-line bios.{{-}}

[[File:AlternatorsLogo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2003–2006: ''[[Transformers: Alternators]]'', a toy-only franchise, combined licensed, 1/24th-scale replica vehicles with complex transformations and ''Generation 1'' characters. It was marketed in Japan as ''Binaltech'', where the toys were packaged with bios and short stories that fleshed out the line's place in continuity. Sadly, the American franchise received no fiction beyond on-package character quotes for the later toys, a brief summary of the original setting of the Japanese ''Binaltech'' story revealed through a promotional Mazda website, and a single toy bio that was never officially released.{{-}}

[[File:Cybertron-Logo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2005–2006: '''''[[Transformers: Cybertron (franchise)|Transformers: Cybertron]]''''' completed the arc begun by ''Armada'', capping off the "[[Unicron Trilogy]]". The latter portion of the franchise was subtitled "Primus Unleashed". It was marketed in Japan as ''Galaxy Force''. Fiction included a cartoon, on-package blurbs and pack-in "Planet Maps" with character bios and profiles of various worlds.

* 2006–2008: ''[[Star Wars (franchise)|Star Wars Transformers]]'' combined the transforming play pattern with the characters and vehicles of the popular movie franchise. Fiction was limited to on-package bios, as this line was in support of a non-''Transformers'' fictional universe.

* 2006: The ''[[Transformers: Beast Wars 10th Anniversary]]'' limited line featured six reissues of older ''Beast Wars'' toys with special packaging, new decos and bonus features, and two all-new molds. Fiction included on-package bios and pack-in DVDs of ''Beast Wars'' cartoon episodes.{{-}}

[[File:Classicslogo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2006–2007: ''[[Transformers: Classics|Classics]]'' was a line of rehashed ''Generation 1'' characters intended to be a stopgap while the 2007 movie toys were being prepared. Its success prompted Hasbro to continue it as the "Classic Series" under the 2008 ''Universe'' line. Fiction was limited to a fan club comic.

* 2006–2009: The ''[[Titanium Series]]'' was aimed specifically at fans, with a range of characters from older franchises and more obscure corners of the fiction, and die-cast metal designs. As the characters are all based on previous franchises, fiction consisted solely of on-package bios. Effectively ended in 2007, with a few delayed releases coming out as [[exclusive]]s as late as 2009. Later releases were [[co-branding|co-branded]] as part of the ''Movie'' line, ''Universe'' or ''Revenge of the Fallen''.{{-}}

[[File:TF2007 Logo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2007–2008: The "'''[[Movie (franchise)|Movie]]'''" franchise marked a new level for Transformers, with [[Transformers (film)|''Transformers'']] as its centerpiece. The later portion of the toyline, primarily consisting of redecos, was subtitled "[[AllSpark Power]]", followed by a short-lived second expansion, the [[Premium Series]]. In addition to the movie itself, fiction included various comics, bios, package blurbs, and other ancillary merchandise.{{-}}

[[File:Transformersanimated franchise logo.png|right|upright=1.1|Transformersanimated franchise logo.png]]

* 2008– : '''''[[Transformers Animated (franchise)|Transformers Animated]]''''' is the first American-written cartoon franchise in just under a decade. It carries on the brand with a new look and some old familiar faces. Fiction includes the cartoon, a comic book series, and on-package bios.{{-}}

[[File:Universe2008Logo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2008–2009: ''[[Transformers: Universe (2008 franchise)|Transformers: Universe]]'' re-uses the catch-all name of several years prior, but is a new umbrella franchise covering products not falling under either ''Crossovers'' or ''Animated''. It is not slated to receive any fiction except for on-package bios.

* 2008– : ''[[Transformers: Crossovers]]'' rebrands the ''Star Wars Transformers'' line, as well as bringing in transforming Marvel characters, following Hasbro's acquisition of the Marvel license.{{-}}

[[File:Revenge fallen logo.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

* 2009–2010: '''''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (franchise)|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen]]''''' continues in the [[Live-action film series|live-action film]] direction begun by [[Transformers (film)|''Transformers'']]. The later portion of the toyline, was subtitled "[[N.E.S.T. Global Alliance]]". {{-}}

[[File:Transformerswarforcybertron.jpg|right|upright=1.1]]

*2010: '''''[[Transformers: War for Cybertron (franchise)|Transformers: War for Cybertron]]''''' is the first franchise in the [[Aligned continuity family]]. {{-}}

*2010– : ''[[Transformers: Generations]]'' continues on from 2008's Universe to be the catch-all franchise covering products not falling under the concurrent ''[[Transformers (2010 toyline)|Transformers (2010)]]'' toyline. It is not slated to receive any fiction except for on-package bios although it includes characters from the game ''[[Transformers: War for Cybertron (games)|War for Cybertron]]''.{{-}}

*2010–2011: the non-subtitled ''[[Transformers (2010 toyline)|Transformers]]'' toyline builds on the ''Revenge of the Fallen'' toyline but also includes other toys and characters, acting as a general celebration of the Transformers lineage. Sub-sections of this franchise include the [[Hunt for the Decepticons]] promotion and the [[Reveal the Shield]] subline. Reveal the Shield covers the same territory as the concurrent ''Generations'' line, recreating classic characters with new modern designs.

[[File:Transformersprimelogo.png|right|upright=1.1]]

*2010– : '''''[[Transformers: Prime (franchise)|Transformers: Prime]]''''' is intended to serve as a basis for the core Transformers line for some time to come. The line began with video games, comics, and a CGI TV show. The toyline began in late 2011 with the subline "First Edition", followed by "Robots in Disguise" in early 2012. {{-}}

[[File:TransformersDOTMLogo-trans.png|right|upright=1.1]]

*2011 : '''''[[Transformers: Dark of the Moon (franchise)|Transformers: Dark of the Moon]]''''' is built around the third live-action feature film. {{-}}

*2014 : '''''[[Transformers: Age of Extincton (franchise)|Transformers: Age of Extinction]]''''' is built around the fourth live-action feature film. {{-}}

*2017 : '''''[[Transformers: The Last Knight (franchise)|Transformers: The Last Knight]]''''' is built around the fifth live-action feature film. {{-}}

==Takara franchises==
===Generation 1===
Beginning in 1986, (the second year of the franchise in Japan), [[TakaraTomy|Takara]] got into the habit of annually [[rebranding]] the ''Transformers'' property. Moreover, 1987's ''[[Transformers: The Headmasters (franchise)|Transformers: The Headmasters]]'' kicked off a trend in which Takara's toylines and fiction branched off from [[Hasbro]]'s versions to increasingly significant degrees. Thus, the later iterations of Japanese Generation 1 are often referred to as "franchises", despite being part of the larger Generation 1 franchise. They include:

*1985: ''[[Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers (franchise)|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers]]''
*1986: ''[[Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers 2010 (franchise)|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers]]''
*1987: ''[[Transformers: The Headmasters (franchise)|Transformers: The Headmasters]]''
*1988: ''[[Transformers: Super-God Masterforce (franchise)|Transformers: Super-God Masterforce]]''
*1989: ''[[Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Victory (franchise)|Victory]]''
*1990: ''[[Transformers: Zone (franchise)|Transformers: Zone]]''
*1991: ''[[Transformers: Return of Convoy (franchise)|Transformers: Return of Convoy]]''
*1992: ''[[Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Operation Combination (franchise)|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Operation Combination]]''

===Beast Wars===
To fill the sometimes-lengthy gap between the seasons of the ''Beast Wars'' television show, Takara decided to augment that series with two Japanese-exclusive franchises.

*1998: ''[[Beast Wars II: Super Lifeform Transformers (franchise)|Beast Wars II: Super Lifeform Transformers]]'', with a toyline mostly consisting of redecorated existing ''Beast Wars'' toys.

*1999: ''[[Super Lifeform Transformers: Beast Wars Neo (franchise)|Beast Wars Neo: Super Lifeform Transformers]]'', numerous new molds with additional redecos.

===Post-Beast Wars===
* 2000: ''[[Transformers: Car Robots]]'' was a mixed line of complex new molds and redecorated toys from previous lines. An expanded version was later marketed in America as ''Robots in Disguise''.

*2002–2004: ''[[The Transformers: Micromaster|Micromaster]]'' re-released the various Japanese-exclusive Micromaster combining teams from late in the Generation 1 era.

*2002-2006: ''[[The Transformers Collection]]'' consisted of book-boxed reissues of toys from the early years of Generation 1. Many of the same toys would subsequently be reissued in the United States in the ''Commemorative Series'' line.

*2003: ''[[Smallest Transforming Transformers]]'' (often mislabeled "World's Smallest Transformers") reworked early Generation 1 toys at extremely small scale.

*2003–2008: ''[[Binaltech]]'', Japan's version of ''Alternators''. Originally ended in 2006, later reanimated.

*2003– : ''[[The Transformers: Masterpiece]]'' is a collector-oriented series of "ultimate" versions of classic Generation 1 characters, with great complexity and high prices.

*2004–2005: ''[[Robotmasters (franchise)|Robotmasters]]'' was a line of mixed heritage, collecting characters from several continuities. Most of its toys were redecos or new designs based on larger toys reduced in scale.

*2006–2007: ''[[Transformers: Kiss Players (franchise)|Transformers: Kiss Players]]'' picked up the tail end of the ''Binaltech''/''Alternators'' toyline, but with an all-new, all-creepy storyline.

*2007: The ''[[Transformers: Beast Wars Telemocha Series]]'' was Japan's expanded equivalent of the ''Beast Wars 10th Anniversary'' line.

*2007– : ''[[Transformers Encore]]'' revives the trend of reissuing older Generation 1 toys, including many not previously available in Japan.

*2007– : ''[[Henkei! Henkei! Transformers (franchise)|Henkei! Henkei! Transformers]]'' uses the molds created for the 2007 ''Classics'' and 2008 ''Universe'' lines and gives them color schemes more accurate to the original Generation 1 cartoon. Fiction exists in the form of a pack-in comic.

*2013– : ''[[Triple Combination: Transformers Go! (franchise)|Triple Combination: Transformers Go!]]'' is a Japanese sequel to ''Transformers: Prime''.

===Other franchises===
*2003: ''[[Kids' Transformers: Rescue Hero Go-Bots (franchise)|Kids' Transformers: Rescue Hero Go-Bots]]'' is Takara's answer to Hasbro's ''1-2-3 Transformers'' and ''Transformers: Go-Bots'' lines, using molds from both to create a separate line.

==Merchandising franchises==
Several lines of non-transforming figures have been released, capitalizing on the popularity of the ''Transformers'' characters.

* 2000–?: [[Super Collection Figure]], a Japanese line of PVC figures based on character models from the Generation 1 cartoon. It was later marketed in America as ''Heroes of Cybertron'', with some minor alterations.
* 2002–2003: [[MyClone]], a Transformers iteration of a super-deformed figure line in Japan.
* 2007: ''[[Robot Heroes (toyline)|Robot Heroes]]'', adorably cute figurines of various characters. It started out under the ''Movie'' banner (despite originally containing toys based on Generation 1 characters), then continued under ''Universe'' (2008) and ''Revenge of the Fallen''.

{{stub}}

[[Category:Fandom]]
[[Category:Franchises|*]]

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2017-06-05T07:51:26Z

Furhun: /* What exactly are these pictures behind Megatron supposed to be? */

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2017-06-05T07:48:31Z

Furhun: /* What exactly are these pictures behind Megatron supposed to be? */ new section

Master of the House

2016-11-06T07:29:10Z

Furhun: /* Continuity errors */

{{episode
|series=BMtoon
|ep=2
|prev=The Reformatting
|title="Master of the House"
|next=Fires of the Past
|image=MasterHouse Megatron.jpg
|caption=''Master of the House, quick to catch the eye, never likes a passerby to pass him by...''
|production company=[[Mainframe Entertainment]]
|airdate=[[September 25]], [[1999]]
|written by=[[Marty Isenberg]]<br>[[Bob Skir]]
|directed by=[[Steve Sacks]]
|animation studio=[[Mainframe Entertainment]]
|continuity=[[Beast Wars continuity]]
}}
'''After their reformatting, the amnesiac Maximals come face to face with the source of their troubles.'''

==Synopsis==
[[File:Master of the House Optimus maximals.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|If they want to learn how to transform, why don't they just read the instruction booklets?]]

Under the teachings of [[Optimus Primal/Beast Wars cartoon continuity|Optimus Primal]], the [[Maximal]]s are mastering their [[technorganic]] bodies, controlling their "emotional center" vital for [[transformation]]. [[Cheetor (BW)|Cheetor]] and [[Blackarachnia (BW)|Blackarachnia]] manage to use their technorganic transformations properly, but [[Rattrap (BW)|Rattrap]] is still struggling with his new body. But their time in [[robot mode]] is limited, as a rumbling shakes the chamber and a [[Vehicon Mole]] attacks the Maximals. The shock forces Cheetor and Blackarachnia back into their [[beast mode]]s, and they take shelter behind Optimus.

Optimus Primal leaps in front of the frightened Maximals and deflects the blasts, all the while explaining that they reverted because they lost their emotional balance. Primal destroys the mindless Vehicon with a blast of energy, but knows it's time to leave, hopefully to find a new base and continue their transformation lessons. Although Cheetor wants to visit [[Cybertropolis]] and search for survivors, Optimus overrules his suggestion, insisting that they need to get a handle on their new transformations before they go out looking for trouble. They split up to search out a new training ground. Blackarachnia and Cheetor are paired together (real smart pairing them up, ya big [[Trukk not munky|munky]]), and Rattrap and Primal go the opposite way.

[[File:Master of the House Infocore.jpg|right|upright=1.1|thumb|"A whole ''planet's'' worth of pornography... ''gone.''"]]
Cheetor and Blackarachnia (with some goading on Blackarachnia's part) decide to go topside. As soon as they clamber up from the caves, they discover that they are in Cybertropolis, Cybertron's current capital. Cybertropolis ''should'' be home to "ten million Transformers", but the duo find it deserted, with the [[Cybertron InfoCore]] deleted and useless.

[[File:Master of the House Cheetor Blackarachnia fall.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|Why Grand Theft Auto: Cybertron never really took off.]]
Before the pair can investigate further, they are attacked by [[Aero Drone]]s, and plunge off the side of a building before they can slide to safety. As he runs, Cheetor attempts to transform, but Blackarachnia drags him to safety. Cheetor leads two jets into Blackarachania's web-trap, but the pair are still outnumbered. Fortunately, Optimus also arrives. He quickly transforms into robot mode and takes to the air, but is soon overwhelmed.

Cheetor and Blackarachnia manage to transform, and they quickly dispatch the drones with their new weapons and powers. Optimus scolds Cheetor for disobeying orders, but is admittedly intrigued at their findings. Optimus orders the group to head to the [[Council Citadel]], hoping to find answers. Rattrap moves ahead of the rest of the group, but encounters a platoon of Tank Drones. Optimus orders Cheetor and Blackarachnia to hold off the drones while he investigates inside. When he gets inside, he heads to the chambers of the [[Maximal Elder]]s.

[[File:Master of the House Optimus Megatron.jpg|right|upright=1.1|thumb|"Okay, two words, from a film... Masked, okay, and he's a... greedy person? A self-harmer? Oh, a ''cannibal!'' Boy, this one's a hard 'un, Meggy..."]]
Reaching the council meeting room, Optimus Primal comes face to face with the leader of the drones—[[Megatron (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity|Megatron]], now encased in a suit of [[control harness|control armor]]! He greets Primal cordially, and decides to "fill in" the gaps in Primal's memory. Megatron claims that he won the [[Beast Wars (event)|Beast Wars]], and that after arriving on Cybertron conquered the populace, remodelling Cybertron into his own image. Megatron's Cybertron is one of technological purity, devoid of organic life. Thus, he explains, came the [[Vehicon (BM)|Vehicons]], [[spark]]less Transformers who will serve Megatron and crush Primal's "mongrel" Maximals.

However, the Maximals manage to survive the Vehicons, their technorganic bodies and spark-powered ingenuity foiling the mindless might of the drones. Frustrated by the Maximals' survival, Primal's goading pushes Megatron to the breaking point. Enraged, Megatron breaks free of his harness and transforms into his dragon form, deactivating the drones in the process. Primal and Megatron fight, but Megatron reconnects to his control harness and summons more Vehicons, mocking Primal all the while. The other three Maximals arrive just in time to drag their grief-stricken leader away to safety.

Safe underground, the Maximals inquire about what happened in the council chamber. Optimus explains that all of this happened because he failed to destroy Megatron. Now, Optimus vows, it's up to him to correct that mistake.
{{--}}

==Featured characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|h1=[[Maximal]]s
|c1=
*[[Cheetor (BW)|Cheetor]] (1)
*[[Rattrap (BW)|Rattrap]] (2)
*[[Optimus Primal/Beast Wars cartoon continuity|Optimus Primal]] (3)
*[[Blackarachnia (BW)|Blackarachnia]] (4)

|h2=[[Vehicon (BM)|Vehicons]]
|c2=
*[[Vehicon Mole]] (5)
*[[Aero Drone]]s (6)
*[[Tank Drone]]s (7)
*[[Motorcycle Drone]]s (8)
*[[Megatron (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity|Megatron]] (9)
}}

==Quotes==
'''Rattrap''': "I am transformed, I am sooo transformed I can't even believe it!...ehhh".<br>
'''Optimus''': "Just let it happen, don't try to make it happen."<br>
[''Rattrap tries to force himself to transform'']<br>
'''Optimus''': "Can you feel it?"<br>
'''Rattrap''': "Oh! I feel a breakthrough coming..."
:—'''Rattrap''' tries to transform but fails (and makes a dirty double entendre at the same time).

"Aww, come on, ever since we got to Cybertron, all we've done is run and hide."
:—'''Cheetor''', who is ''way'' more right than he knows.

"Cybertron is now my domain. You may bow before your new lord and master."
:—'''Megatron''' lets Optimus know who's in charge.

"I am the future. I have forged this entire planet into a single elegant machine. A vision of technological purity and order. And you four mongrels would dare contaminate that vision with your accursed beast modes."
:—'''Megatron''' speechifies.

"What's wrong, Megatron? Your single elegant machine having trouble multitasking?"
:—'''Optimus''' burns Megatron.

"Look at yourself, Megatron. See the thing you despise the most. Cybertron will never be pure so long as the beast exists within you. You've failed."
:—'''Optimus''' while holding Megatron by the beast neck.

==Notes==
===Animation and technical errors===
* As she walks on the underground tunnel's ceiling, the shadow that Blackarachnia casts on the wall doesn't actually touch her legs, making it look like she's floating.
* The streaks of dust kicked off by the Cycle Drones in the citadel's hallway keep disappearing between shots. In the shot that focuses on the head of one Drone, some dust can be seen forming to its right without anything kicking it off.
* As Primal smashes his way through the Cycle Drones, a bunch of metal pieces keep floating in the air.
* In one shot with Primal running to the door to the [[Maximal Elder|Elders]] Councilroom, one of the Cycle Drones has Thrust's colors, even though Thrust has not yet debuted.
* As the Drone that ramped off one of its companions falls toward the Councilroom door, it remains stuck in the air for a couple of seconds after reaching it.
* After Megatron breaks free from Optimus' grip, there seem to be weird "spikes" coming out of one of his dragon-fingers on both hands. Likely a rigging error in his animation model, which gets fixed in later shots.
* When Megatron transforms from his dragon mode back to his all-controlling-mastermind-mode, the transformation sequence used is the sleeker, non-damaged one of his Transmetal 2 appearance in Beast Wars.
* In the following shot, as Primal watches Megatron, there seems to be a hole on the side of his [[robot mode]] head, behind which a gray color keeps flashing.
* The scar over Megatron's eye switches sides in some shots.
* As they react to Optimus tumbling down into the darkness, Blackarachnia's right arm disappears into Cheetor's chest. Then, as they spin around, their arms clip through each other.

===Continuity errors===
* How does Cheetor follow Blackarachnia up what appears to be a perfectly smooth vertical pipe? Does his new [[beast mode]] come with magnetic paws?
* How does Blackarachnia, who was born on prehistoric Earth, know what the Cybertron Infocore even is?
* Blackarachnia is either a very fast web-spinner or those jet drones took their time!
* It's never been made clear why Megatron- who previously seemed to relish his dragon mode- suddenly had an abrupt change of heart regarding organic [[alternate mode]]s. Presumably something happened to him after arriving on Cybertron, but the exact circumstances have never been explained or explored.
*Megatron still has his Transmetal 2 body, which used to be huge and scarcely the same size as Optimal Optimus. during the Beast Wars. Optimus Primal on the other hand got an upgrade to his original Beast form. Yet, during their face-off, Megatron and Optimus are roughly the same size.

===Continuity notes===
* Cheetor welcomes Blackarachnia to Cybertropolis, the latter has never been to Cybertron before, having emerged from a [[stasis pod]] on ancient Earth.
* Megatron claims that the Maximals lost the Beast Wars. Since Optimus is amnesiac and Megatron ''did'' escape to conquer Cybertron (thus pissing on everything the Maximals fought for), this is obviously a taunt and not Bob Skir ignoring the end of "[[Nemesis Part 2]]".
* The Maximal Elders received infrequent mentions throughout ''Beast Wars''. It's not clear how Megatron deposed of them, but as [[Rampage (BW)|Rampage]] proves, maybe it's not such a bad thing that they've been taken out of the picture...
* Megatron's dragon form looks like a patchwork cyborg rather than the smooth, reddish version it originally was; as we find out in subsequent episodes, this is due to a large number of failed experiments to rid his body of all organic elements. His robot form has apparently undergone alterations as well, since the cloak covering his body appears to be an altercation of his wings rather than a part of the control helmet device he is continuously plugged into.
* Gadgets and powers:
** Rattrap wields an automated, tail-mounted screwdriver in beast mode.

===Transformers references===

===Real-world references===

===Trivia===
* Megatron is scarred across his right eye. Whatever did that to him between the end of ''Beast Wars'' and the start of ''Beast Machines'' is a mystery, which, to this day, has not been explained.

===Foreign localization===
'''French'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Maître du Conseil'''" ("Master of the Council")

:*''Title:'' "'''Maître des Lieux'''" (Canada, "Master of Places")

'''German'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Cybertropolis'''"
:*''Original airdate:'' [[December 3]], [[2000]]

'''Japanese'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Yasei no Chōkyō'''" (野性の調教, "Breaking of the Wild")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[November 7]], [[2004]]

'''Portuguese'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Mestre da Casa'''" ("Master of the House")

'''Spanish'''
:*''Title:'' "'''El Amo y Señor'''" ("The Lord and Master")

==Home video releases==
{{homevidnote}}
;DVD
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 2004 — ''Super Lifeform Transformers: Beast Wars Returns'' — Volume 1 ([[Geneon Universal Entertainment|Geneon Entertainment]]) — Japanese audio only.<br>
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2006 — ''Beast Machines: Transformers'' — The Complete Series ([[Rhino Entertainment|Rhinomation]])<br>
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2014 — ''Transformers: Beast Machines'' — The Complete Series ([[Shout! Factory]])<br>
[[File:Flag of Australia.png|20px|Australia]] 2007 — ''Transformers: Beast Machines'' — Season One: Volume One ([[Sony]])<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2007 — ''Transformers: Beast Machines'' — Season One: Volume One — Reformatting (Sony)<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2007 — ''Transformers: Beast Machines'' — Complete Season One (Sony)<br>
[[File:Flag of France.png|20px|France]] 2009 — ''Transformers: Beast Machines'' — Intégrale Saison 1 (Sony) — French audio only.

[[Category:Beast Machines episodes]]

Mistaken Identity

2016-11-05T14:32:50Z

Furhun: /* Continuity errors */

{{episode
|series=RiD
|ep=36
|series2=Transformers: Car Robots
|ep2=36
|prev2=Gelshark's Blues
|title="Mistaken Identity"
|japanese=ブラックコンボイの野望
|romaji=Black Convoy no Yabō
|translation=Black Convoy's Ambition
|image=Mistaken Identity Karl.jpg
|caption=[[wikipedia:Superhuman Samurai Syber-Squad|Let's Samuraize, guys!]]
|production code=
|production company=[[TV Tokyo]], [[Nihon Ad Systems|NAS]], [[Studio Gallop]]
|written by=[[Yukiyoshi Ōhashi]] (Japanese)<br>[[Michael McConnohie]] (English)
|director=[[Akira Katō]]
|animation studio=Studio Gallop
|airdate=[[December 6|6 December]] [[2000]] (Japanese)<br>[[March 2]], [[2002]] (English)
|continuity=
}}
'''Sky-Byte needs Koji'''<br>
'''To move Fortress Maximus'''<br>
'''Oops, got the wrong kid'''

==Synopsis==
[[Karl]] and [[Jenny (RID)|Jenny]] find their friend [[Koji Onishi|Koji]] in a park, pondering how to control [[Fortress Maximus (RID)|Fortress Maximus]]. They're both impressed that Koji was able to control the giant robot, but their discussion is interrupted by the arrival of [[Scourge (RID)|Scourge]] and [[Mega-Octane]], who attempt to kidnap Koji. Fortunately the [[Autobot Brothers]] are nearby and soon chase the two Decepticons off. Back at base, [[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus]] explains he's detailed the three brothers with protecting Koji since the Decepticons seem to think he's their best bet at controlling Maximus.

[[File:Mistaken Identity Kojikarl.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|Psst—I know why he's called "Side Burn".]]
Indeed, in the [[Megastar]], Scourge is telling [[Megatron (RID)|Galvatron]] the same thing. [[Sky-Byte (RID)|Sky-Byte]] questions Scourge's loyalty, but Galvatron will hear nothing of it, and demands that Koji be captured and brought to him.

Meanwhile, Koji and Karl are skateboarding, and Koji laments that the Autobots are keeping him from wandering far, but he has a plan. Soon afterwards, [[Side Burn (RID)|Side Burn]] follows "Koji", only to find that the two boys have switched clothing, and he's following the wrong one. Side Burn and [[Prowl (RID)|Prowl]] quickly catch up with the real Koji and take him back to base to be told off by Optimus. [[Wedge]] suddenly calls in to report in panic that Koji has just been kidnapped by Sky-Byte—which Koji quickly realises means that the Predacons have Karl.

[[File:Mistaken Identity Skybytesack.jpg|right|upright=1.1|thumb|And what has Santa-Byte brought for you today?]]
Sky-Byte's pride in having successfully done Galvatron's bidding is short-lived, as Scourge points out the captured boy is not actually Koji. Galvatron rages, but Scourge suggests that they should try having Karl attempt to control Fortress Maximus. [[Movor]] reports that Maximus is currently located in a forest in Sector Gamma Four, and it doesn't take long for the three evil-doers to arrive there with Karl and [[Cerebros (RID)|Cerebros]]. Karl is able to command Maximus to transform, and a tractor beam pulls him into Maximus's command centre. At Scourge's order, he makes Maximus punch a mountain, with devastating results.

[[T-AI]] manages to trace Maximus's location, and Optimus and the Autobot Brothers set out, with Koji managing to persuade Side Burn to take him along.

[[File:Mistaken Identity Maximus.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|<sub>Mother!</sub>]]
Karl finds controlling Maximus exhilarating and realises he can now help the Autobots by destroying the Decepticons. On the ground, Scourge orders Karl to destroy Galvatron and Sky-Byte, much to their respective fury and alarm. Galvatron transforms into "Iron Mammoth" mode and waits. As it turns out, Maximus refuses to obey the command, and stops short of crushing the pair underfoot.

[[File:Mistaken Identity Galvatronscourge.jpg|right|upright=1.1|thumb|He sorta looks like a mammoth if you squint.]]
The Autobots arrive and begin attacking Galvatron. Sky-Byte sees his chance to capture Koji, but Karl has Maximus grab the Predacon and toss him away. The giant expels Karl gently onto the ground, and he's reunited with his friend. A second attempt by Sky-Byte to capture Koji is foiled by the newly arrived [[Ultra Magnus (RID)|Ultra Magnus]]. [[Omega Prime]] and the powered-up Autobot Brothers are soon seeing off Galvatron, but not before he disables Scourge and promises pain in the Decepticon's future. Fortress Maximus sinks into the ground once more.

Koji apologises to Karl for letting him get kidnapped, but Karl is just happy to have gotten the chance to command Maximus.
{{--}}
==Featured characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
*[[Prowl (RID)|Prowl]] (7)
*[[Side Burn (RID)|Side Burn]] (8)
*[[X-Brawn]] (9)
*[[T-AI]] (10)
*[[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus Prime]] (11)
*[[Wedge]] (14)
*[[Fortress Maximus (RID)|Fortress Maximus]] (15)
*[[Cerebros (RID)|Cerebros]] (17)
*[[Ultra Magnus (RID)|Ultra Magnus]] (18)
*[[Omega Prime]] (19)

|h2=[[Predacon (RID)|Predacons]]
|c2=
*[[Mega-Octane]] (5)
*[[Scourge (RID)|Scourge]] (6)
*[[Megatron (RID)|Galvatron]] (12)
*[[Sky-Byte (RID)|Sky-Byte]] (13)
*[[Movor]] (16)

|c3=
*[[Kelly (RID)|Kelly]] (1)
*[[Jenny (RID)|Jenny]] (2)
*[[Karl]] (3)
*[[Koji Onishi]] (4)
}}

==Quotes==
'''Karl:''' Bet I could control it.<br>
'''Jenny:''' Who'd do what you'd say?
:—Karl and Jenny will probably end up married someday.

'''Prowl''': Hey! You don't bother kids on my watch.<br>
'''Side Burn''': In fact, you just don't do it at all!
:—The Autobots do not approve of bothering kids. [[The Human Element|Teleporting them into a desert]] is all good, though.

"In those clothes, he looked exactly like Koji."
:—'''Side Burn''' subtly brings the deficiencies of the character design to our attention.

'''Scourge''': That is not Koji. You failed ''again!''<br>
'''Sky-Byte''': Urrrghhh! I have no idea how this could've happened, sir. I was led astray!<br>
'''Galvatron''': You will pay for this!!<br>
'''Sky-Byte''': Would you... take a check?<br>
'''Galvatron''': Shut your mouth, fool. How'll you fix it? Tell me that.<br>
'''Sky-Byte''': Well, I still have the receipt, I could see about doing an exchange.
:—Sky-Byte attempts to dig himself out of a hole. Even by his standards, it's a poor effort.

"Pompous fool! I am here for Fortress Maximus. When I awoke from protoform stasis, I got more than you planned. I got a heavy dose of your ambition!"
:—'''Scourge''' demonstrates the overlooked pitfalls of cloning your [[spark]] when you're a ruthless, egotistical megalomaniac.

"Sir, you may not have noticed, but actually, he's just a little bit larger than you..."
:—'''Sky-Byte''', on the other hand, is highly observant.

'''Galvatron''': Sky-Byte, bring Scourge back to base. Don't hurt him... that's something ''I'm'' looking forward to.
:—Hell hath no fury like a jet-bat-dragon-hand-car-transport-griffin-mammoth-robot scorned.

==Notes==
===Differences with ''Car Robots''===
*In ''Robots in Disguise'', Koji is glum at the start of this episode because of the troubles he's having controlling Fortress Maximus. In ''Car Robots'', however, he's glum because of the "scolding" his dad gave him in the Japanese version of "[[The Human Element]]" (though that's a harsh way of describing Onishi's firm but kindly-phrased words).
*Jenny has heard of Fortress Maximus in ''Robots in Disguise'', but not in ''Car Robots'' (Karl has heard of him in both versions).
*When Jenny asks how Koji controlled Maximus, in ''Car Robots'', the boy explains that the giant robot responds to the "heroic spirit of human children". In ''Robots in Disguise'', this is replaced with gag-ish dialogue about how Maximus isn't a lawnmower that one drives, and that he responds to voice commands. ''Robots in Disguise'' does go a little further in describing the mental/spirital natural of the connection with Koji's next few lines, as he talks about how one has to "really concentrate" on what they want Maximus to do; in ''Car Robots'', these lines involve Koji describing past instances where he and other human children controlled Maximus.
*When Karl talks about how he wants to control Maximus, ''Car Robots'' has him note that he should be able to do it because he's a human child. After Jenny jokes about it, Karl's clenched-fists-shouting-mouth routine is played as annoyance at her remarks in ''Robots in Disguise'', while in ''Car Robots'', he's having a little rant about how jealous he is that Koji gets to control Maximus.
*When the Autobots talk about how the Decepticons want Koji for his ability to control Maximus, in ''Robots in Disguise'' Koji points out that he doesn't know how he did it, while in ''Car Robots'', he notes that he's not the only one who can do it (on the whole, the opening scene of ''Robots in Disguise'' seems to have forgotten about the climax of "The Human Element" and the other children who got involved, as any reference to anyone other than Koji controlling Maximus has been omitted, though it's probably not a deliberate thing).
*''Robots in Disguise'' extends the scene of Galvatron, Scourge and Sky-Byte by adding a second close-up shot of Galvatron before Scourge starts outlining his plan.
*When Karl and Koji agree to swap outfits, Fortress Maximus is mentioned in different contexts depending on the version: in ''Car Robots'', Karl thinks this stunt will give him a chance to control the giant, while in ''Robots in Disguise'', he tells Koji he has to take him to see Maximus as a favour for going along with the switch.
*When Wedge radios the Autobot base, ''Robots in Disguise'' extends the shot of him reacting to the fact Koji's is safe, and the shot of of Prime ordering the Build Team back to base.
*''Robots in Disguise'' has Wedge give excuses for his inability to save "Koji" from Sky-Byte ("There was this huage traffic jam! And I'm not designed to chase flying sharks!"), while ''Car Robots'' has him simply explain that Sky-Byte flew off before Wedge (and the Build Team, presumably) could intervene.
*After Wedge signs off, a ''Car Robots'' scene transition is replaced with a ''Robots in Disguise'' one.
*When Galvatron bellows at Sky-Byte during the split-screen shot after they find out he's captured Karl instead of Koji, ''Robots in Disguise'' loops the footage a little so Galvatron's rant is a bit longer.
*While Galvatron remarks in ''Robots in Disguise'' that he is running out of patience with Scourge's theories, in ''Car Robots'', he's puzzled at the notion Karl could control Maximus, which is what prompts Scourge to point out their similar age.
*''Robots in Disguise'' shortens the scene of Maximus's emergence in the jungle by removing an oddly-timed dissolve from ''Car Robots'', specifically from the top-down shot of him rising out of the ground to the shot of Movor's monitor. It compensates for the time lost by slightly extending the shot of Galvatron saying he wants to head out as well, just before the scene transition.
*After Karl looks up at Maximus and remember's Koji's words, Scourge's subsequent line of dialogue is an instruction to the boy in ''Robots in Disguise'', but in ''Car Robots'', he's calling out to Maximus, entreating him to activate in response to Karl.
*Right afterward, while looking terrified and thinking to himself, ''Car Robots'' sees Karl recall the events of "[[Sideburn's Obsession]]", when the Predacons took over Karl's dad's car-crushing facility. The reference is removed from ''Robots in Disguise''; again, probably not a purposeful erasure, but just a case of the writers not being able to remember what was being referred to.
*''Robots in Disguise'' goes to commercial break after Karl has Maximus punch the mountain; when it returns, it adds 7 extra seconds of footage to the scene of T-AI reporting to Optimus by adding some re-used footage to the start. In ''Car Robots'', the scene starts when she turns back from the console.
*In a truly baffling bit of dialogue, ''Car Robots'' has Koji convince Side Burn to take him into the fight because this will allow Karl to operate Brave Maximus in front of him, which will make Koji ''humble'', after his showing-off in the first scene. ''Robots in Disguise'' wisely takes this out and replaces it with Koji blaming himself for Karl being taken.
*When Side Burn goes back to base for Koji, a ''Car Robots'' scene transition is replaced with a ''Robots in Disguise'' one.
*While Scourge rants about stomping Galvatron and Sky-Byte into bits of metal in ''Robots in Disguise'', in ''Car Robots'', he's pointing out the irony of the situation, considering the impending stomp to be "repayment" for the evil Galvatron instilled in him. Sky-Byte's whimpers that they'd rather not have "this kind of repayment".
*When the Autobots emerge from the space bridge, ''Robots in Disguise'' adds Prowl and X-Brawn's transformation [[stock footage]].
*The dialogue from Koji that follows Scourge blasting X-Brawn differs across the two shows: in ''Robots in Disguise'', he's calling out to X-Brawn, but in ''Car Robots'', he's calling to Karl.
*In a strange move, ''Robots in Disguise'' cuts out a shot of robot-mode Cerebros landing in front of Omega Prime, after Maximus disappears. With the removal of this shot, it's not particularly clear that the Autobots have finally obtained Cerebros, as he only appears again mostly hidden at the back of a group shot.
*''Robots in Disguise'' cuts to commercial after Maximus disappears again, removing the dissolve that links this scene to the next in ''Car Robots''.
*In the final scene of the episode, ''Car Robots'' features the Autobots driving through the "wireframe" version of the Global Space Bridge seen intermittently throughout the series. Oddly, for the first time since it debuted in "[[Landfill (episode)|Landfill]]", ''Robots in Disguise'' finds it necessary to replace these visuals with footage from other episodes of the CGI version of the space bridge.
*Where ''Robots in Disguise'' has Koji tell Karl to leave things to the Autobots in the future, in ''Car Robots'', he asks him not to brag about the fact he got to control the giant. The conversation between the two boys plays out over the final shot of the Autobots heading home, as Karl describes the inside of Maximus's command module, but in ''Robots in Disguise'', this is replaced with Optimus telling the Autobots to roll.

===Animation and technical errors===
*When Sky-Byte dumps Karl on the ground in front of Galvatron, both his and Sky-Byte's shadows appear purple.
*At the start of the scene where Fortress Maximus transforms into robot mode, Galvatron is coloured as Megatron for a single shot.

===Continuity errors===
*Scourge appears ignorant of the fact that Fortress Maximus responds to any human biosignature, only realising the truth midway through this episode; apparently, he has totally forgotten that he already worked this out in "[[The Human Element]]", and had previously used the knowledge to control Fortress Maximus himself. This is true for the ''Car Robots'' version of the episode as well.
*In the previous episode, Maximus responded fairly well to Scourge until several bullet trains' worth of humans arrived on the scene. In the absence of Koji and a thousand other children, Scourge should, once again, be able to use his amplified signal to control Maximus, rather than taking the risk of bestowing Karl with the power to crush them all.
*Previously, entering the command center was a matter of getting the door to open and climbing in. Karl however was directly beamed in by Maximus.

===Transformers references===
*Fortress Maximus appears to be common knowledge among the humans (but then, he ''did'' stomp around in a major city and was then yelled at by one thousand small children, so...).

===Trivia===
*Koji's helmet has a "Y" on the back, which stands for his Japanese name, Yūki, whilst the "K" on Karl's stands for his Japanese name, Kenta, as well as his English one.
*Speaking of names, Scourge seems to have a bit of difficulty remembering Galvatron's. [[Renaming|It can be hard to keep up sometimes]]...
*Wedge isn't designed to chase flying sharks. A completely understandable oversight.
*Judging from the bit of paper he holds up when he says it, it would appear that Sky-Byte genuinely ''does'' have a receipt for the child he kidnapped. Commerce works strangely in [[Metro City]]...
*With the series just a few episodes from ending, this one begins the rush to introduce Galvatron's new alternate modes. Here, we get the debut of the "Iron Mammoth" (the "Devil Elephant" in ''Car Robots''), which Galvatron was going to use against Fortress Maximus, but didn't get to since Maximus stopped moving before Galvatron could use it. He then uses it to mostly stand around and do nothing for the rest of the episode (except spank Scourge with his trunk once).

==Home video releases==
{{homevidnote}}
;DVD
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 2001 — ''Transformers: Car Robots'' — Vol. 9 ([[Pony Canyon]]) — Japanese audio only.<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2005 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Three-Disc Box Set: Part 2 of 2 ([[Maximum Entertainment]])<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2007 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Season Two (Maximum Entertainment)<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2007 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Ultimate Collection (Maximum Entertainment)

==External links==
*[http://www.ridforever.info/episode-transcripts/rid-episode-36-mistaken-identity "Mistaken Identity" transcript on RiDForever.info]

[[Category:Robots in Disguise (2001) episodes]]

Maximus Emerges

2016-11-05T13:54:29Z

Furhun: /* Continuity errors */

{{episode|
|series=RiD
|ep=33
|title="Maximus Emerges"
|japanese=奪われたプラズマ
|romaji=Ubawa re ta Plasma
|translation=Stolen Plasma
|image=Maximus Emerges Maximusrampage.jpg
|caption=Oh no! A giant robot is stomping on <s>Tokyo</s> Metro City!
|production code=
|production company=[[TV Tokyo]], [[Nihon Ad Systems|NAS]], [[Studio Gallop]]
|written by=[[Kazuhiko Gōdo]] (Japanese)<br>[[Tom Wyner]] (English)
|director=[[Akira Katō]]
|animation studio=Studio Gallop
|airdate=[[November 15|15 November]] [[2000]] (Japanese)<br>[[February 16]], [[2002]] (English)
|continuity=
}}

'''Locate Cerebros'''<br>
'''Stolen by Decepticons'''<br>
'''Who will gain control?'''

==Synopsis==
[[File:Maximus Emerges Temple.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|This temple was built by the Tribe of Devo.]]
The Decepticons arrive at an old temple, having tracked some Autobots there. [[Scourge (RID)|Scourge]] scans inside to find that the [[Autobot Brothers]] and [[Build Team (RID)|Build Team]] are looking for [[Cerebros (RID)|Cerebros]] and appear to have located his energy signature in a statue. That's all the Decepticons need, and they open fire, demolishing the temple. The Autobots are dug out by the Build Team, but are quickly confronted by the Decepticons, who demand Cerebros. [[Ultra Magnus (RID)|Ultra Magnus]] arrives to help, but [[Sky-Byte (RID)|Sky-Byte]] and the Predacon trio, who have been skulking nearby, snatch Cerebros and make off with him.

The Autobots return to base, where they get chewed out by [[T-AI]] for letting Cerebros slip through their fingers. All is not entirely lost, as T-AI believes that Cerebros is programmed to ignore an enemy. [[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus]] sends Team Bullet Train and Build Team to look for Cerebros, while the Autobot Brothers are tasked with protecting Fortress Maximus. [[Side Burn (RID)|Side Burn]] is towed there by [[Tow-Line (RID)|Tow-Line]] to prevent him from being distracted by red sports cars.

[[File:Maximus Emerges Rollbarmaximus.jpg|right|upright=1.1|thumb|Well, gee, no wonder we couldn't find him.]]
In the [[Megastar]], Scourge and [[Mega-Octane]] revive Cerebros. Scourge believes because he scanned Optimus Prime when he was taking his Earth mode, Cerebros will obey him and, sure enough, they're able to use Cerebros to locate Fortress Maximus.

In [[Metro City]], Maximus lights up as a beacon and is quickly spotted by the Decepticons. They move in to find the Autobots waiting for them, but Scourge has Cerebros combine with [[Emissary (RID)|the Emissary]] to form the head of Fortress Maximus. [[Koji Onishi|Koji]] runs from the Autobot base, believing he can help in some way.

[[File:Maximus Emerges Skybytegalvatron.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|Can I get an Amen?]]
As the battle begins, all three combiner teams combine, Ultra Magnus arrives, and the Autobot Brothers power up. [[Megatron (RID)|Galvatron]] also arrives, introducing himself and congratulating Scourge on having gained control over Fortress Maximus. Scourge commands Maximus to destroy the Autobots, but the giant begins firing at random and Optimus has to rescue Ultra Magnus from being crushed underfoot. The two brothers combine into [[Omega Prime]] as Maximus' rampage continues.

[[File:Maximus Emerges Maximussink.jpg|right|upright=1.1|thumb|Fortress Maximus's guide on "How Not To Be Seen" had lackluster sales at best.]]
Finally Koji arrives and shouts at Maximus to stop, and the giant halts. The Autobots take the opportunity to chase the Predacons and Decepticons off. Fortress Maximus sinks into the ground, however Galvatron seizes Cerebros and makes off with the bot. As Scourge leaves, he realises that Koji may be the key to controlling Maximus.

T-AI reports that Team Bullet Train and the Build Team have been unable to locate Maximus, and the Autobots wonder why Cerebros stopped obeying Scourge and seemed to follow Koji's commands.
{{-}}

==Featured characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
*[[X-Brawn]] (7)
*[[Prowl (RID)|Prowl]] (8)
*[[Hightower (RID)|Hightower]] (9)
*[[Side Burn (RID)|Side Burn]] (10)
*[[Wedge]] (11)
*[[Heavy Load (RID)|Heavy Load]] (12)
*[[Grimlock (RID 2001)|Grimlock]] (13)
*[[Cerebros (RID)|Cerebros]] (14)
*[[Ultra Magnus (RID)|Ultra Magnus]] (19)
*[[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus Prime]] (20)
*[[T-AI]] (22)
*[[Fortress Maximus (RID)|Fortress Maximus]] (23)
*[[Tow-Line (RID)|Tow-Line]] (cameo) (25)
*[[Crosswise (RID)|Crosswise]] (cameo) (26)
*[[Midnight Express (RID)|Midnight Express]] (27)
*[[Railspike (RID)|Railspike]] (28)
*[[Rapid Run (RID)|Rapid Run]] (29)
*[[Landfill (RID)|Landfill]] (31)
*[[Rail Racer (RID)|Rail Racer]] (32)
*[[Omega Prime]] (34)

|h2=[[Predacon (RID)|Predacons]]
|c2=
*[[Ro-Tor (RID)|Ro-Tor]] (1)
*[[Movor]] (2)
*[[Scourge (RID)|Scourge]] (3)
*[[Mega-Octane]] (4)
*[[Rollbar (RID)|Rollbar]] (5)
*[[Armorhide (RID)|Armorhide]] (6)
*[[Sky-Byte (RID)|Sky-Byte]] (15)
*[[Slapper (RID)|Slapper]] (16)
*[[Dark Scream]] (17)
*[[Gas Skunk]] (18)
*[[Ruination (RID)|Ruination]] (30)
*[[Megatron (RID)|Galvatron]] (33)

|c3=
*[[Koji Onishi]] (21)
*[[Kelly (RID)|Kelly]] (24)
}}

==Quotes==
"He treated us like dirt. But compared to Scourge, he was Mr. Nice Guy."
:—'''Sky-Byte''' on the late Megatron.

'''Mega-Octane''': You lose, Auto-fools! Cerebros is ours now! Well done, Predacons. You finally did something right!<br>
'''Sky-Byte:''' Thank you. I speak for all Predacons, and especially for myself, when I say that it's an honour and a privilege to be able to help our friends the Decepticons in any way we can.<br>
'''Gas Skunk:''' Really? I thought the only reason we were helping them is because we had no other choice. Isn't that what you said?
:—Gas Skunk has trouble knowing when to keep quiet.

'''X-Brawn:''' We all make mistakes, T-AI.<br>
'''T-AI:''' Speak for yourself.
:—T-AI is a harsh mistress.

'''Side Burn:''' What's that? I think my audio chip is malfunctioning.<br>
'''T-AI:''' Very funny, but I have ways of getting you where I want without distraction.
:—''Very'' harsh.

"Today we will become the rulers of the universe. Justice and freedom will be replaced by the power of the iron fist."
:—'''Scourge''' knows all you need to rule the entire universe is a really big robot.

"Access error. Access error. Unauthorized access protocol."
:—'''Fortress Maximus''' causes Scourge to regret upgrading him to Windows Vista.

"Galvatron, you may have a new look and a new name, but one thing hasn't changed: your arrogance is your downfall! Omega Blast!"
:—'''Omega Prime''' lets Galvatron know exactly what he thinks of his upgrade.

==Notes==
===Differences with ''Car Robots''===
As a general point, this episode adds repeated, detailed references to Cerebros having a "command block" that will prohibit Fortress Maximus from obeying Decepticon commands, which ''Robots in Disguise'' would build upon in later episodes to form a complex, multi-layered activation protocol for the giant Autobot. This idea will not be introduced in ''Car Robots'' until ''next'' episode; in this one, the concept only comes up briefly in the scene in which Scourge and Mega Octane reactivate Cerebros, and rather than state that such a block actually ''exists'', Mega-Octane merely wonders aloud if it is even possible for a Decepticon to control Cerebros.
*As the Autobots have only just learned about Cerebros in the previous episode of ''Car Robots'', their conversation inside the ruins is one containing a lot more doubt and questioning, as they're not even sure they'll find Cerebros, nor what exactly will happen when they use him to activate Maximus, and are concerned about the danger he poses. As they know a lot of these answers already in ''Robots in Disguise'', their conversation is changed to be a bit more foreshadowy, as they wonder how Maximus is controlled once active.
*When Scourge opens fire on the ruins, he is merely calling out his attack name in ''Car Robots'', as he is the only one who attacks; in ''Robots in Disguise'', he orders the Decepticons to all attack, and the English version adds in some footage of the Decepticons unleashing their weapons from the fight with the Autobots later in this scene, followed by a re-use of the shot of Scourge watching the blasts explode.
*In ''Car Robots'', the flashback to Megatron's apparent destruction is only 4 seconds long, and tinged with a cloudy purple border. ''Robot in Disguise'' extends the flashback to 18 seconds in length, re-using more footage from the previous episode surrounded by a white border.
*In ''Car Robots'', the Predacons believe Megatron may not be gone for good, but in ''Robots in Disguise'', they're convinced he's a goner.
*When Sky-Byte stops while escaping to deliver a fake-polite reply to Scourge, in ''Robots in Disguise'', he simply talks about how happy they are to help, while in ''Car Robots'', he says he's always thought Scourge would be a better leader than Megatron.
*When X-Brawn reports in, ''Robots in Disguise'' extends the scene slightly by slipping a short extra shot of X-Brawn on the monitor screen between the close-up on Prime himself and the second shot of X-Brawn onscreen over Prime's shoulder.
*When T-AI consoles a worried Koji in ''Car Robots'', she tells him that the Decepticons will need to get Fortress Maximus's body first. ''Robots in Disguise'' replaces this with the first reference to Maximus's command block.
*After T-AI tells Side Burn not to chase any cars, ''Car Robots'' fades out of the scene as Side Burn rubs the back of his head, remarking that he knows that already, but isn't happy about it. ''Robots in Disguise'' changes Side Burn's dialogue so that he is pretending he can't hear her, then extends the scene by re-using the shot of T-AI speaking to him, giving her an extra line of dialogue where she remarks that she has ways of getting him to do what she wants.
*While Kelly is happy not to be pestered by Side Burn in ''Robots in Disguise'', in ''Car Robots'', she feels "oddly unsatisfied" by his absence!
*We've described the major differences between the two versions of the scene of Mega Octane and Scourge reactivating Cerebros at the head of this section; the ''Robots in Disguise'' version also adds a lot more gobbledegook about stasis and recharging and such to fill the ''Car Robots'' silence of the pan across the Megastar and over Cerebros's prone form.
*As the Predacons and Decepticons assemble before Scourge, in ''Car Robots'', Mega-Octane gives them the news that Rollbar and Ro-Tor have acquired Fortress Maximus's location. ''Robots in Disguise'' replaced this dialogue with another reference to Maximus's command block.
*After everyone had their [[stock footage]] transformation party, the scene is silent in ''Car Robots'' until the show goes to commercial break, after which the scene of Koji and T-AI in the base plays. Scourge delivers a speech over this silence in ''Robots in Disguise'', which includes the first mention of the Emissary, which Koji and T-AI then wonder about; in ''Car Robots'', Koji just pointlessly restates facts the audience knows already (that Cerebros is the one who controls Maximus).
*In ''Robots in Disguise'', Wedge comments on Maximus's lack of a head, but in ''Car Robots'', he's just remarking with awe that the city has transformed. Likewise, when Prime speaks after the Emissary connects, in ''Robots in Disguise'' he's replying to Wedge's remark, but in ''Car Robots'', he's observing that Scourge is in control of Maximus.
*Koji just wants to get a look at Maximus up close in ''Car Robots'', while ''Robots in Disguise'' changes it up so that he thinks he can maybe do something to help.
*The shot of Sky-Byte reacting to Galvatron's arrival is extended just a ''teeeeny'' bit for ''Robots in Disguise'', in order to accommodate a fade-out as the show goes to commercial break.
*When ''Robots in Disguise'' returns from the commercial break, it adds a shot of Galvatron in bat mode, and one of Optimus Prime reacting to him, before his transformation sequence.
*''Car Robots'' gives no real explanation for why Maximus goes bonkers and tries to shoot everyone, as he merely continues to shout "Access Error" throughout; in ''Robots in Disguise'', a line of dialogue is added to note that he is enacting his "unauthorized access protocol".
*While in ''Robots in Disguise'', Galvatron tells Scourge to forget trying to order Maximus around (with the odd remark that Maximus has "got his memory back"), in ''Car Robots'', he orders Scourge to ''keep trying'' to get Maximus to attack the Autobots. In-keeping with this, some later lines from Scourge that are barked commands to Maximus in ''Car Robots'' are changed to awed reactions to Maximus's power in ''Robots in Disguise''.
[[File:MaximusEmerges deletedscene.gif|right|thumb|upright=1.5|"I can see their parachutes, they're okay!"]]
*When Optimus saves Magnus from being squished under Maximus's foot, in ''Car Robots'', he wryly remarks that Optimus must be desperate to merge with him, and when Optimus responds that he ''does'' want to merge, Magnus, his joke having not quite worked out, gets angry and snaps that okay, they'll merge, but just this one time! In ''Robots in Disguise'', this is replaced with some of Magnus's characteristic angry muttering about how he's not under Optimus's command and will only merge with him if it's not an order.
*In a moment of post-9/11 caution, a wide shot of Fortress Maximus raking the entire city with his lasers is deleted from ''Robots in Disguise'' (right), and replaced with a mirror-flipped shot of Maximus simply towering over the surrounding buildings. The same shot is reviewed on a monitor in the Autobot base at the end of the episode, and ''Robots in Disguise'' replaces it again with the same footage.
*In ''Robots in Disguise'', everyone basically realizes right away that Koji's words were responsible for stopping Maximus; in ''Car Robots'', none of the characters remark on this until Scourge is retreating and reviews video footage of Koji's plea.
*In the final scene of ''Car Robots'', Side Burn laments that the Decepticons came away the victors, while T-AI point out that at least Scourge has lost control of Maximus. ''Robots in Disguise'' changes this to be a bit more technical, with Side Burn wondering ''why'' Scourge lost control, and T-AI speculating that his recognition program rebooted for some reason—another foreshadowy line tied in with the "command block" stuff that'll be explained in the future.

===Animation and/or technical glitches===
*When Rollbar and Armorhide transform prior to the battle for Maximus, there's a tree floating in the air on the right-hand side of the screen. Additionally, they ''both'' seem to shout "Rollbar, transform" in unison, despite the fact that, y'know, only one of them is called Rollbar.

===Continuity errors===
*As with most of the recap animations featured in the series, the brief flashback of Megatron's "death" uses animation taken from [[Peril from the Past|the previous episode]], but with altered dialogue.
*Galvatron rose from the grave last episode, right where the Predacon Trio were... so why does he only turn up at the end? Why didn't he go back to the Megastar when they did?
*Cerebros is supposed to obey the leader of the Autobots, i.e. Optimus Prime, and that's why he obeyed Scourge's search command in the first place. Funnily enough, throughout the whole battle it just doesn't occur to Prime or any of Autobots that Optimus should try commanding Maximus. It's like they don't even know just as much about Maximus and Cerebros as the Decepticons do.

===Trivia===
*Apparently all you need to rule the universe is a really big robot.
*The Predacon trio don't seem to have suffered any ill effects from their draining by Galvatron; indeed, none of them even bother to mention that it ever happened.
*It's amazing that the Decepticons need Cerebros to find Fortress Maximus.
*Galvatron claims that Megatron is dead and that he himself is a different person. [[Galvatron (G1)|Not that again!]]
*Megatron's grand return as the all-powerful Galvatron consists of him jetting into battle, getting lightly beaten up, and calling a unilateral retreat. Even when you're a ten-changer, some things never change.
*T-AI's "scolding face" sure makes her looks like she has a toothache.

==Home video releases==
{{homevidnote}}
;DVD
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 2001 — ''Transformers: Car Robots'' — Vol. 9 ([[Pony Canyon]]) — Japanese audio only.<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2005 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Three-Disc Box Set: Part 2 of 2 ([[Maximum Entertainment]])<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2007 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Season Two (Maximum Entertainment)<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2007 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Ultimate Collection (Maximum Entertainment)

==External links==
*[http://www.ridforever.info/episode-transcripts/rid-episode-33-maximus-emerges "Maximus Emerges" transcript on RiDForever.info]

[[Category:Robots in Disguise (2001) episodes]]

Power to Burn!

2016-11-05T13:19:20Z

Furhun: /* Continuity errors */

{{episode
|series=RiD
|ep=28
|title="Power to Burn!"
|japanese=発動! ダブルマトリクス
|romaji=Hatsudō! Double Matrix
|translation=Activate! Double Matrix
|image=Power to Burn Magnusrollbararmorhide.jpg
|caption=This is [[Carnage in C-Minor|easier with Constructicons]]
|production code=
|production company=[[TV Tokyo]], [[Nihon Ad Systems|NAS]], [[Studio Gallop]]
|written by=[[Tadashi Hayakawa]] (Japanese)<br>[[Tom Wyner]] (English)
|director=[[Yoshiaki Tsutsui]]
|animation studio=Studio Gallop
|airdate=[[October 11|11 October]] [[2000]] (Japanese)<br>[[October 19]], [[2001]] (English)
|continuity=
}}

'''Scourge wants a team up'''<br>
'''Ultra Magnus turns him down'''<br>
'''A big fight ensues'''

==Synopsis==
[[File:Power to Burn Magnussideburn.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|heY MAgnuS, dO yOu liK JaAm?]]
[[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus]], [[T-AI]] and [[Koji Onishi|Koji]] puzzle over how the [[Autobot Brothers]] were able to super-charge and, on reviewing footage of the incident, realise that the power came from [[Ultra Magnus (RID)|Ultra Magnus]].

Meanwhile [[Scourge (RID)|Scourge]] tells [[Megatron (RID)|Megatron]] that he is going to try to persuade Ultra Magnus to join them and help them defeat Optimus. Megatron is impressed (having apparently forgotten that they ''just tried that'').

T-AI contacts [[Side Burn (RID)|Side Burn]], eventually managing to jolt him out of daydreaming about red sports cars, and asks him to be on the lookout for Magnus. The Autobot is soon distracted by the appearance of [[Kelly (RID)|Kelly]] in yet another red sports car, but finds himself unexpectedly powering up. [[Prowl (RID)|Prowl]], coming up behind him, suggests this means Ultra Magnus must be near, and sure enough they spot a familiar car carrier up ahead. Magnus is not happy to see the two brothers, and speeds ahead, soon sighting Scourge.

[[File:Power to Burn Xbrawnruination.jpg|right|upright=1.1|thumb|Dynamic entry!!]]
The [[Decepticon]] lures Magnus to a clearing and proposes they join forces to destroy both Optimus and Megatron. Magnus turns him down, and the [[Commando (RID)|Commandos]] promptly appear, ready to fight, with Side Burn and Prowl quickly joining in as well. Annoyed, Magnus leaves the pair to it. The Commandos form [[Ruination (RID)|Ruination]], and the two brothers power up, with Side Burn contacting T-AI for backup.

[[File:Power to Burn Optimuspoint.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|OBJECTION!]]
As [[X-Brawn]] joins the fight by kicking Ruination in the head, Side Burn and Prowl both unexpectedly power down, suddenly as weak as kittens. Magnus witnesses what's happening and regrets leaving the two brothers to the Decepticons, but before he can intercede, Optimus arrives. The Autobot leader proceeds to distract the Decepticons while X-Brawn helps his brothers to safety. Ruination separates and the Decepticons begin a concentrated attack on Prime, who attempts to shoot down as many of their missiles as he can. Magnus rejoins the fight.

It's not long before Megatron turns up with [[Sky-Byte (RID)|Sky-Byte]] and the Predacon trio and attack Optimus as well. After the Autobot leader gives a stirring speech about how good will prevail, he combines with Magnus into [[Omega Prime]] and shrugs off a full salvo of all the firepower the Decepticons and Predacons can muster. After a brief amount of return fire, Megatron calls a retreat, and Optimus thanks Magnus for his help. The Autobot brothers speculate that next time Magnus just might join the Autobot team.

==Featured characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
*[[T-AI]] (1)
*[[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus Prime]] (3)
*[[Ultra Magnus (RID)|Ultra Magnus]] (4)
*[[X-Brawn]] (6)
*[[Side Burn (RID)|Side Burn]] (7)
*[[Prowl (RID)|Prowl]] (8)
*[[Omega Prime]] (19)

|h2=[[Predacon (RID)|Predacons]]
|c2=
*[[Megatron (RID)|Megatron]] (5)
*[[Slapper (RID)|Slapper]] (9)
*[[Sky-Byte (RID)|Sky-Byte]] (10)
*[[Scourge (RID)|Scourge]] (11)
*[[Armorhide (RID)|Armorhide]] (13)
*[[Mega-Octane]] (14)
*[[Movor]] (15)
*[[Ro-Tor (RID)|Ro-Tor]] (16)
*[[Rollbar (RID)|Rollbar]] (17)
*[[Ruination (RID)|Ruination]] (18)

|c3=
*[[Koji Onishi]] (2)
*[[Kelly (RID)|Kelly]] (12)
}}

==Quotes==
'''Side Burn''': ''[eyes twitching and bulging]'' Hey, Ultra Magnus! I'm glad we found you. I wanted to thank you for that power burst you gave me. I'm handling great, got lots of acceleration and dude, I'm a whole lot faster than I ever was before! The way I'm feeling now, nobody's gonna catch me!<br>
'''Ultra Magnus''': Stay away from me!
:—And the lesson here is: even when you're an Autobot, people find you less approachable when you're clearly on crack.

"We can destroy both Megatron and Optimus and fulfill our destinies. Will you join me?"
:—'''Scourge''' channels [[Darth Vader]].

'''X-Brawn''': Don't worry, little brother. I just got to this hoedown and I'm raring to dance with these boys.<br>
'''Scourge''': Sorry, the first dance goes to Side Burn. I want to see him kick up his heels!
:—Scourge is really getting the hang of this "banter" thing.

"Power wielded by incompetence leads to nothing but self-destruction."
:—'''Scourge''' channels Yoda.

'''Optimus:''' As long as our circuits flow with faith and justice will prevail, you cannot win!<br>
'''Slapper:''' Yuck! Disgusting! We should destroy him just for that!
:—Slapper doesn't appreciate corny dialog.

==Notes==
===Differences with ''Car Robots''===
*The whole 45-second clip from the previous episode, played as a video recording for Koji by Optimus Prime, is added for the ''Robots in Disguise'' episode. The two shots of Koji which bookened this sequence are a continuous shot in ''Car Robots'', and involve him asking not about the Autobot Brothers becoming supercharged, but about Optimus's Energon Matrix.
*The rest of the conversation that follows is the same in ''spirit'' between the two versions, but re-framed for ''Robots in Disguise'' to be about the unique nature of the Matrix of Leadership and the possibility that Magnus is sharing its energy with Prime, where ''Car Robots'' is able to talk about how it appears God Magnus has an Energon Matrix of his own. However, ''Car Robots'' will never actually explore this concept again, and exactly what was going on with Magnus and if or how he had his own Energon Matrix is seemingly left unresolved until ''seven episodes later'' during the [[clip show|recap episode]] "[[Gelshark's Blues]]", in which Ultra Magnus finally confirms that this energy ''is'' his own Energon Matrix after all. Would have been nice for that fact to have instead come in ''this'' episode, wouldn't it?
*When Side Burn is cruising along, ''Robots in Disguise'' adds a gag that involves T-AI calling his name, and him not hearing her because he's caught up in his own thoughts. In ''Car Robots'', she doesn't speak until she appears on his internal monitor. As such, the dialogue after their conversation is also different; in ''Robots in Disguise'' it reflects the gag, with T-AI telling him to check his audio and him apologizing, while in ''Car Robots'', Side Burn observes to himself that Optimus is worried about Ultra Magnus, and that he too would like to find him to express his thanks for the power boost.
*''Robots in Disguise'' cuts out some anime "shock" reaction effects when Side Burn supercharges.
*Prowl's observation that Side Burn has supercharged because Ultra Magnus is nearby is an invention for ''Robots in Disguise''; in ''Car Robots'', he's just commenting on Side Burn's sudden change, which has simply occurred because of the young 'bot's lack of control over his new power.
*When Side Burn and Prowl find Ultra Magnus, ''Robots in Disguise'' changes the dialogue so that he detects them right away; in ''Car Robots'', he's still lost in thought over the mysterious supercharging incident. This change shapes what happens next: when Prowl reports to Optimus and the brothers are told to keep their distance, ''Robots in Disguise'' has Prowl tell him that Magnus has scanned them already, while in ''Car Robots'', Prowl has to embarrassedly report that Side Burn has started talking to Magnus already. ''Robots in Disguise'' cuts a short scene of an anime "sweat drop" effect appears over Prowl as he delivers this information.
*''Robots in Disguise'' makes a series of video edits to Side Burn and Magnus's conversation, shortening four separate shots: the initial shot of Side Burn pulling up alongside Magnus and thanking him (removing a line from ''Car Robots'' in which Magnus notes he never intended to give them the power boost), the subsequent shot of Side Burn and Magnus's heads on Magnus's monitor, the rear angle shot as Side Burn pulls up beside Magnus a second time, and the top-down view of both 'bots as they alongside one another. The end result is that the scene, from the moment Side Burn pulls up until it cuts to commercial, runs for 1:14, compared to the 1:29 it ran for in ''Car Robots''. Said cut-to-commercial take the place of a scene transition in ''Car Robots''.
*Magnus is a bit less standoffish in ''Car Robots'', as he and Side Burn talk about what it's like to be a younger brother; after Side Burn tells him that Optimus is worried about him, Magnus remarks that even Side Burn's own elder brothers probably worry about ''him'' when he's off on his own. This is the remark that prompts Side Burn to nearly swerve off the road in surprise; in ''Robots in Disguise'', this is changed to a non-sequiter steering accident, which he covers with a simple "Whoopsie!"
*Similarly, in ''Car Robots'', Magnus thinks that if Prime ''is'' worried about him, it's because he thinks he might join up with the Predacons, while in ''Robots in Disguise'', this is changed to Magnus thinking Prime is worried about him taking the Matrix and assuming his position as Autobot leader.
*When Prowl tracks Scourge and Magnus, ''Robots in Disguise'' omits a line he has in ''Car Robots'' about how his radar is more powerful after his supercharging.
*When Scourge tells Magnus to forget about Megatron, and to join forces with ''him'' specifically, his follow up line is thought to himself in ''Car Robots'', but spoken aloud to Magnus in ''Robots in Disguise''. The second half of Magnus and Scourge's conversation is also completely changed between versions, save for Magnus's refusal to join forces. In ''Robots in Disguise'', Magnus's primary point is that Prime is ''his'' to deal with, and Scourge retorts that if he ''could'' defeat Prime, he would have done so already. ''Car Robots'', on the other hand, focuses on Scourge's newly-introduced treacherous intentions: when questioned on them by Magnus, Scourge explains that he is a "Decepticon with the face of a Prime", but that in reality, he is neither of these things, and owes no loyalty to either ideal as a result.
*After X-Brawn arrives, the ''Robots in Disguise'' dialogue for Scourge makes it sound as if this is the first time he is seeing their powered-up forms, when he saw them last episode. In ''Car Robots'', he merely thinks to himself on what a bad situation it is.
*When ''Robots in Disguise'' returns from it's middle-of-the-episode commercial break, it begins with a shot of Magnus watching the battle from nearby, moved to before the panning shot of Ruination holding Side Burn aloft instead of after, as it was in ''Car Robots''.
*In ''Robots in Disguise'', Prime encourages Scourge to beat a retreat, and Scourge naturally refuses, followed by a bit of waffling from both parties that says little. In ''Car Robots'', on the other hand, Prime is actually ''calling Scourge out'', and when Scourge asks if he wants a one-on-one battle, Prime informs him that, nope, ''he'll'' be fighting alone, but that Scourge can call as many Decepticons to help him as he wants. Phew, Prime's hardcore in this one!
*As such, at the start of the conversation in ''Robots in Disguise'', where Prime tells X-Brawn and Side Burn to handle Ruination while he deals with Scourge, in ''Car Robots'', he tells X-Brawn to get his brothers to his repair bay while he handles the two villains.
*''Robots in Disguise'' extends the attack from Scourge's battle station slightly, repeating footage of the base opening fire and of Prime trying to shoot down some of the projectiles twice (!), and of the bombs dropping around Side Burn.
*When Magnus re-enters the fray, in ''Car Robots'', Scourge briefly thinks he might be returning to join forces with him. After Magnus makes clear that is not the case, and Optimus rises in the background, Scourge's next line is directed at Magnus in ''Robots in Disguise'' ("You're going to take us all on by yourself?") but at Optimus in ''Car Robots'' ("You can still stand?") before he vows to destroy them both.
*The Predacon trio grumble about Scourge still being Megatron's favourite in ''Robots in Disguise''; that's ''basically'' their sentiment in ''Car Robots'' too, but they express it by pointing out amongst themselves that actually, Scourge was in a tough spot until Megatron turned up and isn't actually worthy of the praise Megatron is giving him.
*A good illustration of the East-West cultural gap: while the Predacons laugh at how "corny" Optimus's speech is in ''Robots in Disguise'', in ''Car Robots'', their reaction is more akin to squeeing at how cool it is. After Prime is done, ''Robots in Disguise'' has them continue to deride his speechification, while in ''Car Robots'', it has ''worked'' on them, and they've lost the will to fight—which is why they don't take part in the battle after this.
*After Omega Prime is formed, the Predacons simply remark that things have gone wrong and it would be a good idea to leave in ''Robots in Disguise'', but in ''Car Robots'', as they're playing a "spectator" role after "losing the will to fight", they instead offer up peanut-gallery-style commentary on the power of Omega Prime's special weapons.

===Animation errors/technical glitches===
*In one shot, when Scourge is fighting Prowl, his sword is colored black instead of pink.

===Continuity errors===
*When Optimus, T-AI and Koji are reviewing the events of their last battle, the footage seen on the viewscreen is lifted directly from "[[The Two Faces of Ultra Magnus]]", except X-Brawn's line "What the bejillickers?" has been replaced with "What in tarnation's going on?". The new line can probably be seen as an improvement, by virtue of "tarnation" actually being a real word.
*Scourge reacts with surprise at the Autobot brothers' power up, apparently having completely forgotten the events of the [[The Two Faces of Ultra Magnus|previous episode]].
*Optimus and Magnus, both have always been able to easily deal with Scourge and the Decepticon Commandos, even Ruination, on their own. Now however, they seem to be losing their touch. Getting lazier by the minute because they know they could always call on one another and merge?

===Trivia===
*Optimus's concerns about his death spelling destruction for the [[Matrix of Leadership|Matrix]] suggests that the ''Robots in Disguise'' Matrix is tethered to its holder's lifeforce, unlike the [[The Transformers (cartoon)|original ''The Transformers'' cartoon]] incarnation of the artifact. Guess they don't make Matrices like they used to...

==Home video releases==
{{homevidnote}}
;DVD
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 2001 — ''Transformers: Car Robots'' — Vol. 7 ([[Pony Canyon]]) — Japanese audio only.<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2005 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Three-Disc Box Set: Part 2 of 2 ([[Maximum Entertainment]])<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2007 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Season Two (Maximum Entertainment)<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2007 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Ultimate Collection (Maximum Entertainment)

==External links==
*[http://www.ridforever.info/episode-transcripts/rid-episode-28-power-to-burn "Power to Burn!" transcript on RiDForever.info]

[[Category:Robots in Disguise (2001) episodes]]

The Ultimate Robot Warrior

2016-10-28T08:13:55Z

Furhun: /* Trivia */

{{disambig2|the ''Robots in Disguise'' episode|the Transformer someitmes called the "Ultimate Warrior"|Last Autobot}}

{{episode|
|series=RiD
|ep=12
|next=Hope for the Future
|series2=Transformers: Car Robots
|next2=Gigatron's Ambitions Revealed!
|title="The Ultimate Robot Warrior"
|japanese=究極! 大仏トランスフォーマー
|romaji=Kyūkyoku! Daibutsu Transformer
|translation=The Ultimate Extreme! The Large Buddha Statue Transformer
|image=Ultimate Robot Warrior Statuemissiles.jpg
|caption=Hey, where's his face paint and arm tassels?
|production code=
|production company=[[TV Tokyo]], [[Nihon Ad Systems|NAS]], [[Studio Gallop]]
|written by=[[Kazuhiko Gōdo]] (Japanese)<br>[[Richard Epcar]] (English)
|director=[[Yoshiaki Tsutsui]]
|animation studio=Studio Gallop
|airdate=[[June 21]], [[2000]] (Japanese)<br>[[September 21]], [[2001]] (English)
|continuity=
}}

'''Ultimate robot?'''<br>
'''Megatron, you silly sod'''<br>
'''It's just a movie.'''

==Synopsis==
[[File:Ultimate Robot Warrior Gasskunkdragon.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|Hey, Ricky Steamboat isn't supposed to be in this episode!]]
Sifting through [[Kenneth Onishi|Doctor Onishi]]'s mind with the [[psycho-probe]], [[Megatron (RID)|Megatron]] finds a mention of the mysterious "[[Cave of the Dragon]]". [[Sky-Byte (RID)|Sky-Byte]] suggests there may be something important concealed there; this intrigues Megatron, who orders the [[Predacon (RID)|Predacons]] to look into it. A sulky [[Gas Skunk]] would rather watch TV...where he stumbles on a news broadcast at the cave, purporting to show a giant statue which changes into a firebreathing dragon. Gas Skunk promptly races off to inform Megatron and Sky-Byte, thus conveniently failing to hear that the dragon is a special effect for a movie. Megatron is eager to recruit this apparently powerful Transformer into his ranks, and Sky-Byte assures him he'll take care of it.

Unsure where the cave is, the Predacons start hunting for statues all over the planet; unsurprisingly, they don't have a lot of luck getting them to transform. When the [[Autobot]]s show up to chase [[Slapper (RID)|Slapper]] away from his latest target, they have no idea what he's talking about, but their confused denials only encourage the Predacons' delusions.

Back at Autobot headquarters, [[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus]] and [[T-AI]] are trying to figure out the Predacons' sudden statue obsession. [[Koji Onishi|Koji]] mentions that there are statues in the Cave of the Dragon, where his dad used to spend a lot of time. T-AI thinks he may be on to something, as [[Doctor Onishi's microchip]] also mentions the cave. The [[Autobot Brothers]] are sent out to investigate.

[[File:Ultimate Robot Warrior Skybytestatue.jpg|right|upright=1.1|thumb|What evil deeds must one do to be reincarnated as Sky-Byte?]]
[[Side Burn (RID)|Side Burn]], however, is more interested in chasing after [[Kelly (RID)|Kelly]]. His courtship attempts are cut short when a sudden blinding fog rolls in; trying to find his automotive amour, he runs into Sky-Byte, who's finally located the cave. Both are startled to see a huge figure come towards them in the fog—and then vanish! Sky-Byte promptly reports the sighting to Megatron (who is not terribly impressed by a view of empty space and an assurance that "it was here a second ago"). Back at Autobot HQ, T-AI explains to Side Burn that the whole thing was just more special effects. This gives Optimus an idea....

[[File:Ultimate Robot Warrior Dragonpredacons.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|"Chinese fire drill! For real this time!"]]
Sky-Byte goes exploring in the cave, leaving the Predacons outside to keep the Autobots away—and then passes directly by [[Railspike (RID)|Railspike]] and [[Rapid Run (RID)|Rapid Run]] without noticing. He finally locates the "dragon" (actually the two trainbots in clever disguise) and promptly runs away screaming when it chases him. Outside, the Autobot Brothers show up, claiming they're here to stop the Predacons from desecrating a "sacred place," and a fight ensues until the dragon arrives; the Autobots retreat, pretending (badly) to be terrified of it. The Predacons think this is their opportunity, but they are driven back when the dragon "transforms" into a giant statue firing storms of missiles at them (despite a slight hitch when the statue, or rather the Autobots inside it, falls over and can't get up). When Optimus manages to disentangle himself from the statue and declares that he's here to defend the "giant robot", the Predacons decide retreat is definitely the wiser course.

Back in the cave, the Autobots discover that one of the real statues has a [[O-Part|mysterious Cybertronian artifact]] in its forehead. Optimus comments on the irony: the Predacons were chasing after a mythical dragon when what they really wanted was right here.

==Featured characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
*[[Rapid Run (RID)|Rapid Run]] (7)
*[[X-Brawn]] (8)
*[[Prowl (RID)|Prowl]] (9)
*[[Side Burn (RID)|Side Burn]] (10)
*[[T-AI]] (11)
*[[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus Prime]] (12)
*[[Railspike (RID)|Railspike]] (16)
*[[Tow-Line (RID)|Tow-Line]] (17)
*[[Midnight Express (RID)|Midnight Express]] (18)

|h2=[[Predacon (RID)|Predacons]]
|c2=
*[[Megatron (RID)|Megatron]] (2)
*[[Sky-Byte (RID)|Sky-Byte]] (3)
*[[Gas Skunk]] (4)
*[[Slapper (RID)|Slapper]] (6)
*[[Dark Scream]] (14)

|c3=
*[[Kenneth Onishi|Doctor Kenneth Onishi]] (1)
*[[Dorie Dutton]] (5)
*[[Koji Onishi]] (13)
*[[Kelly (RID)|Kelly]] (15)
}}

==Quotes==
"Oh honey, you take those curves like a pro! I must say, sweetheart, your driving skills have improved a lot!"<br>
"The only reason my driving skills improve is because you're always chasing me!"
:—'''Side Burn''' and '''Kelly'''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s version of flirtatious banter

"I really resent having to be the caboose."<br>
"Part's perfect for you. So pipe down and keep walking."
:—'''Rapid Run''' and '''Railspike''' discuss who gets to be which part of the dragon.

'''X-Brawn''': "He's too powerful for us!"<br>
'''Side Burn''': "He's unstoppable! We should really get out of here while we still have the chance!"<br>
'''Rapid Run''': "That was terrible. Sounded like they were just reading their lines. They need to give it some umph!"
:—'''Rapid Run''', acting critic

'''Slapper:''' "Why are you always the first to run away?"<br>
'''Sky-Byte:''' "I lead the retreat."

==Notes==
===Differences with ''Car Robots''===
*In ''Car Robots'', Gas Skunk is trying to repair a malfunctioning monitor, while in ''Robots in Disguise'', he's goofing off trying to watch TV.
*In ''Car Robots'', the Cave of the Dragon is the real-life [[Wikipedia:Longmen Grottoes|Longmen Grottoes]], also known as the "Dragon's Gate Grottoes."
*''Robots in Disguise'' adds some extra dialogue from Dorrie Dutton that makes clear for the audience from the outset that the Buddha statue's transformation is the work of Hollywood special effects.
*As Gas Skunk explains what he's seen to Megatron, ''Car Robots'' has the Predacon leader ask his underling if he is sure of what he's seen. ''Robots in Disguise'' appears to miss this, and Gas Skunk continues talking even though his mouth stops moving and Megatron's starts.
*In ''Car Robots'', Sky-Byte wonders about the accuracy of Gas Skunk's report, and Gas Skunk angrily insists it's true. In ''Robots in Disguise'', on the other hand, Sky-Byte leaps in to promise Megatron he'll bring the Buddha back, and Gas Skunk is miffed since he found out about it first. Additionally, ''Robots in Disguise'' adds an extra shot of Megatron to the end of this scene warning Sky-Byte not to fail.
*As is standard for the series, ''Robots in Disguise'' omits some specific references to the Japanese cities of Kamakura and Nara, where the Predacons start looking for Buddha statues. The statues they investigate exist in these locations in real life.
*In ''Robots in Disguise'', Megatron seems to rather randomly transform to bat-mode for no reason; in ''Car Robots'', it's because he's planning to go to the Cave of the Dragon with the other Predacons. Of course, he ''doesn't'', so, um...
*''Robots in Disguise'' again omits some of the specific reference Side Burn makes to their location amidst his attempts at pitching woo in ''Car Robots'', including mentions of the [[Wikipedia: Silk Road|Silk Road]] and the [[Wikipedia:Tian Shan|Tian Shan]].
[[File:UltimateRobotWarrior POVs.jpg|right|thumb|225px]]
*''Robots in Disguise'' enhances Sky-Byte's POV tracking shot (of the same shark-mouth design as that seen in "The Secret of the Ruins") with a CGI overlay.
*An extra shot of T-AI turning back to Optimus after declaring the Battle Protocol is added to ''Robots in Disguise'' to segue into commercial break.
*Slapper expects the Buddha to be inside the cave in ''Car Robots'', but he's doubtful as to why it would be in there in ''Robots in Disguise''.
*''Robots in Disguise'' has Darkscream think the Buddha won't be hard to spot, while in ''Car Robots'', he's concerned the fog will make the situation just the opposite.
*Gas Skunk is excited to find the Buddha in ''Car Robots'', but bored and eager to get out of the cave in ''Robots in Disguise''.
*''Robots in Disguise'' slows down the footage of the Autobot Brothers' transformation outside the Cave of the Dragon just a little.
*In ''Robots in Disguise'', the petrified Sky-Byte's focus is entirely on recruiting the dragon inside the cave, while in ''Car Robots'', he's more worried about the distraction the Autobot Brothers are causing from the creature's threat.
*In ''Car Robots'', it's Gas Skunk who realizes the dragon is not attacking the Autobots, while in ''Robots in Disguise'', it's Sky-Byte.
*The Autobots stand around and joke about the Predacons retreating in ''Car Robots''; then, after Tow-Line drops the statue, Prime orders them into the cave. ''Robots in Disguise'' replaces their joking with Prime giving his order, so they can fit in a different joke: when Tow-Line drops the Buddha statue, ''Robots in Disguise'' replaces Prime's order with him despairing, since they were supposed to return it to the movie set.
*''Car Robots'' has Prime refer to the O-Part that the team discovers in the cave by name. ''Robots in Disguise'' omitted this, which would wind up causing headaches down the line when the airing order of the series, and this plotline in particular, was badly disrupted.
*''Robots in Disguise'' has Optimus say that he hasn't seen "one of these" (the O-Part) since the Golden Age of Cybertron (see below), while in ''Car Robots'', he instead expresses confusion about how it's even possible for an O-Part to "exist during this time."
*Scenes briefly extended for ''Robots in Disguise'' include:
**The lingering shot of the Psycho-Probe
**Megatron's throne room just before Gas Skunk runs in
**The Autobot Brothers' puzzled reaction to Slapper's words about the transforming Buddha
**Side Burn backing up before transforming to face Sky-Byte
**Side Burn reacting to T-Ai's explanation about the Buddha
**Optimus issuing his orders
**Railspike and Rapid Run dodging Sky-Byte
**Sky-Byte marvelling at the dragon fresco
**Sky-Byte reeling after the dragon roars at him
**X-Brawn warning the Predacons not to try battling the dragon
**Midnight Express informing Optimus he's ready to go
**Tow-Line giving instructions to Railspike and Rapid Run
**The Autobots watching the Predacons retreat
**Tow-Line lowering the Buddha statue

===Continuity notes===
*Doctor Onishi's microchip was retrieved by the Autobots in "[[The Secret of the Ruins]]".
*Optimus recognises the O-Parts from the [[Golden Age]], implying he's been around since then. (Of course we don't know when the Golden Age in RID ''was''...)

===Real-world references===
*Side Burn chases Kelly along the [[Great Wall of China]], though it is never identified as such.
*Despite the statues featured in this episode all very clearly being those of [[w:Amitābha|Amida Buddha]], they are never referred to as such (in the dub, that is).

===Animation and technical errors===
*Despite being a hologram T-AI is able to type on the keyboards when she and Prime decide to contact the other Autobots.

===Trivia===
*As noted above, this episode goes out of its way to avoid mentioning the fact the events take place in China, or that the statues involved with the plot are Buddhist in nature.
*Thanks to [[Side Burn (RID)|Side Burn]], [[Kelly (RID)|Kelly]]'s car fell off a cliff, and naturally, Kelly did too. But the disappearing statue is so overwhelming, that his top priority is to get its news back to [[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus]], and most certainly not the girl whose car he chased off a cliff. We don't really know who rescued Kelly, but we could assume that it was the humans from the film set, or it could have been the Autobots, when they arrived to stage their prank.

==Home video releases==
{{homevidnote}}
;DVD
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 2000 — ''Transformers: Car Robots'' — Vol. 3 ([[Pony Canyon]]) — Japanese audio only.<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2004 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Three-Disc Box Set: Part 1 of 2 ([[Maximum Entertainment]])<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2007 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Season One (Maximum Entertainment)<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2007 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Ultimate Collection (Maximum Entertainment)

==External links==
*[http://www.ridforever.info/episode-transcripts/rid-episode-12-the-ultimate-robot-warrior "The Ultimate Robot Warrior" transcript on RiDForever.info]

{{DEFAULTSORT:Ultimate Robot Warrior}}
[[Category:Robots in Disguise (2001) episodes]]

The Ultimate Robot Warrior

2016-10-28T08:13:20Z

Furhun: /* Trivia */

{{disambig2|the ''Robots in Disguise'' episode|the Transformer someitmes called the "Ultimate Warrior"|Last Autobot}}

{{episode|
|series=RiD
|ep=12
|next=Hope for the Future
|series2=Transformers: Car Robots
|next2=Gigatron's Ambitions Revealed!
|title="The Ultimate Robot Warrior"
|japanese=究極! 大仏トランスフォーマー
|romaji=Kyūkyoku! Daibutsu Transformer
|translation=The Ultimate Extreme! The Large Buddha Statue Transformer
|image=Ultimate Robot Warrior Statuemissiles.jpg
|caption=Hey, where's his face paint and arm tassels?
|production code=
|production company=[[TV Tokyo]], [[Nihon Ad Systems|NAS]], [[Studio Gallop]]
|written by=[[Kazuhiko Gōdo]] (Japanese)<br>[[Richard Epcar]] (English)
|director=[[Yoshiaki Tsutsui]]
|animation studio=Studio Gallop
|airdate=[[June 21]], [[2000]] (Japanese)<br>[[September 21]], [[2001]] (English)
|continuity=
}}

'''Ultimate robot?'''<br>
'''Megatron, you silly sod'''<br>
'''It's just a movie.'''

==Synopsis==
[[File:Ultimate Robot Warrior Gasskunkdragon.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|Hey, Ricky Steamboat isn't supposed to be in this episode!]]
Sifting through [[Kenneth Onishi|Doctor Onishi]]'s mind with the [[psycho-probe]], [[Megatron (RID)|Megatron]] finds a mention of the mysterious "[[Cave of the Dragon]]". [[Sky-Byte (RID)|Sky-Byte]] suggests there may be something important concealed there; this intrigues Megatron, who orders the [[Predacon (RID)|Predacons]] to look into it. A sulky [[Gas Skunk]] would rather watch TV...where he stumbles on a news broadcast at the cave, purporting to show a giant statue which changes into a firebreathing dragon. Gas Skunk promptly races off to inform Megatron and Sky-Byte, thus conveniently failing to hear that the dragon is a special effect for a movie. Megatron is eager to recruit this apparently powerful Transformer into his ranks, and Sky-Byte assures him he'll take care of it.

Unsure where the cave is, the Predacons start hunting for statues all over the planet; unsurprisingly, they don't have a lot of luck getting them to transform. When the [[Autobot]]s show up to chase [[Slapper (RID)|Slapper]] away from his latest target, they have no idea what he's talking about, but their confused denials only encourage the Predacons' delusions.

Back at Autobot headquarters, [[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus]] and [[T-AI]] are trying to figure out the Predacons' sudden statue obsession. [[Koji Onishi|Koji]] mentions that there are statues in the Cave of the Dragon, where his dad used to spend a lot of time. T-AI thinks he may be on to something, as [[Doctor Onishi's microchip]] also mentions the cave. The [[Autobot Brothers]] are sent out to investigate.

[[File:Ultimate Robot Warrior Skybytestatue.jpg|right|upright=1.1|thumb|What evil deeds must one do to be reincarnated as Sky-Byte?]]
[[Side Burn (RID)|Side Burn]], however, is more interested in chasing after [[Kelly (RID)|Kelly]]. His courtship attempts are cut short when a sudden blinding fog rolls in; trying to find his automotive amour, he runs into Sky-Byte, who's finally located the cave. Both are startled to see a huge figure come towards them in the fog—and then vanish! Sky-Byte promptly reports the sighting to Megatron (who is not terribly impressed by a view of empty space and an assurance that "it was here a second ago"). Back at Autobot HQ, T-AI explains to Side Burn that the whole thing was just more special effects. This gives Optimus an idea....

[[File:Ultimate Robot Warrior Dragonpredacons.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|"Chinese fire drill! For real this time!"]]
Sky-Byte goes exploring in the cave, leaving the Predacons outside to keep the Autobots away—and then passes directly by [[Railspike (RID)|Railspike]] and [[Rapid Run (RID)|Rapid Run]] without noticing. He finally locates the "dragon" (actually the two trainbots in clever disguise) and promptly runs away screaming when it chases him. Outside, the Autobot Brothers show up, claiming they're here to stop the Predacons from desecrating a "sacred place," and a fight ensues until the dragon arrives; the Autobots retreat, pretending (badly) to be terrified of it. The Predacons think this is their opportunity, but they are driven back when the dragon "transforms" into a giant statue firing storms of missiles at them (despite a slight hitch when the statue, or rather the Autobots inside it, falls over and can't get up). When Optimus manages to disentangle himself from the statue and declares that he's here to defend the "giant robot", the Predacons decide retreat is definitely the wiser course.

Back in the cave, the Autobots discover that one of the real statues has a [[O-Part|mysterious Cybertronian artifact]] in its forehead. Optimus comments on the irony: the Predacons were chasing after a mythical dragon when what they really wanted was right here.

==Featured characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
*[[Rapid Run (RID)|Rapid Run]] (7)
*[[X-Brawn]] (8)
*[[Prowl (RID)|Prowl]] (9)
*[[Side Burn (RID)|Side Burn]] (10)
*[[T-AI]] (11)
*[[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus Prime]] (12)
*[[Railspike (RID)|Railspike]] (16)
*[[Tow-Line (RID)|Tow-Line]] (17)
*[[Midnight Express (RID)|Midnight Express]] (18)

|h2=[[Predacon (RID)|Predacons]]
|c2=
*[[Megatron (RID)|Megatron]] (2)
*[[Sky-Byte (RID)|Sky-Byte]] (3)
*[[Gas Skunk]] (4)
*[[Slapper (RID)|Slapper]] (6)
*[[Dark Scream]] (14)

|c3=
*[[Kenneth Onishi|Doctor Kenneth Onishi]] (1)
*[[Dorie Dutton]] (5)
*[[Koji Onishi]] (13)
*[[Kelly (RID)|Kelly]] (15)
}}

==Quotes==
"Oh honey, you take those curves like a pro! I must say, sweetheart, your driving skills have improved a lot!"<br>
"The only reason my driving skills improve is because you're always chasing me!"
:—'''Side Burn''' and '''Kelly'''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s version of flirtatious banter

"I really resent having to be the caboose."<br>
"Part's perfect for you. So pipe down and keep walking."
:—'''Rapid Run''' and '''Railspike''' discuss who gets to be which part of the dragon.

'''X-Brawn''': "He's too powerful for us!"<br>
'''Side Burn''': "He's unstoppable! We should really get out of here while we still have the chance!"<br>
'''Rapid Run''': "That was terrible. Sounded like they were just reading their lines. They need to give it some umph!"
:—'''Rapid Run''', acting critic

'''Slapper:''' "Why are you always the first to run away?"<br>
'''Sky-Byte:''' "I lead the retreat."

==Notes==
===Differences with ''Car Robots''===
*In ''Car Robots'', Gas Skunk is trying to repair a malfunctioning monitor, while in ''Robots in Disguise'', he's goofing off trying to watch TV.
*In ''Car Robots'', the Cave of the Dragon is the real-life [[Wikipedia:Longmen Grottoes|Longmen Grottoes]], also known as the "Dragon's Gate Grottoes."
*''Robots in Disguise'' adds some extra dialogue from Dorrie Dutton that makes clear for the audience from the outset that the Buddha statue's transformation is the work of Hollywood special effects.
*As Gas Skunk explains what he's seen to Megatron, ''Car Robots'' has the Predacon leader ask his underling if he is sure of what he's seen. ''Robots in Disguise'' appears to miss this, and Gas Skunk continues talking even though his mouth stops moving and Megatron's starts.
*In ''Car Robots'', Sky-Byte wonders about the accuracy of Gas Skunk's report, and Gas Skunk angrily insists it's true. In ''Robots in Disguise'', on the other hand, Sky-Byte leaps in to promise Megatron he'll bring the Buddha back, and Gas Skunk is miffed since he found out about it first. Additionally, ''Robots in Disguise'' adds an extra shot of Megatron to the end of this scene warning Sky-Byte not to fail.
*As is standard for the series, ''Robots in Disguise'' omits some specific references to the Japanese cities of Kamakura and Nara, where the Predacons start looking for Buddha statues. The statues they investigate exist in these locations in real life.
*In ''Robots in Disguise'', Megatron seems to rather randomly transform to bat-mode for no reason; in ''Car Robots'', it's because he's planning to go to the Cave of the Dragon with the other Predacons. Of course, he ''doesn't'', so, um...
*''Robots in Disguise'' again omits some of the specific reference Side Burn makes to their location amidst his attempts at pitching woo in ''Car Robots'', including mentions of the [[Wikipedia: Silk Road|Silk Road]] and the [[Wikipedia:Tian Shan|Tian Shan]].
[[File:UltimateRobotWarrior POVs.jpg|right|thumb|225px]]
*''Robots in Disguise'' enhances Sky-Byte's POV tracking shot (of the same shark-mouth design as that seen in "The Secret of the Ruins") with a CGI overlay.
*An extra shot of T-AI turning back to Optimus after declaring the Battle Protocol is added to ''Robots in Disguise'' to segue into commercial break.
*Slapper expects the Buddha to be inside the cave in ''Car Robots'', but he's doubtful as to why it would be in there in ''Robots in Disguise''.
*''Robots in Disguise'' has Darkscream think the Buddha won't be hard to spot, while in ''Car Robots'', he's concerned the fog will make the situation just the opposite.
*Gas Skunk is excited to find the Buddha in ''Car Robots'', but bored and eager to get out of the cave in ''Robots in Disguise''.
*''Robots in Disguise'' slows down the footage of the Autobot Brothers' transformation outside the Cave of the Dragon just a little.
*In ''Robots in Disguise'', the petrified Sky-Byte's focus is entirely on recruiting the dragon inside the cave, while in ''Car Robots'', he's more worried about the distraction the Autobot Brothers are causing from the creature's threat.
*In ''Car Robots'', it's Gas Skunk who realizes the dragon is not attacking the Autobots, while in ''Robots in Disguise'', it's Sky-Byte.
*The Autobots stand around and joke about the Predacons retreating in ''Car Robots''; then, after Tow-Line drops the statue, Prime orders them into the cave. ''Robots in Disguise'' replaces their joking with Prime giving his order, so they can fit in a different joke: when Tow-Line drops the Buddha statue, ''Robots in Disguise'' replaces Prime's order with him despairing, since they were supposed to return it to the movie set.
*''Car Robots'' has Prime refer to the O-Part that the team discovers in the cave by name. ''Robots in Disguise'' omitted this, which would wind up causing headaches down the line when the airing order of the series, and this plotline in particular, was badly disrupted.
*''Robots in Disguise'' has Optimus say that he hasn't seen "one of these" (the O-Part) since the Golden Age of Cybertron (see below), while in ''Car Robots'', he instead expresses confusion about how it's even possible for an O-Part to "exist during this time."
*Scenes briefly extended for ''Robots in Disguise'' include:
**The lingering shot of the Psycho-Probe
**Megatron's throne room just before Gas Skunk runs in
**The Autobot Brothers' puzzled reaction to Slapper's words about the transforming Buddha
**Side Burn backing up before transforming to face Sky-Byte
**Side Burn reacting to T-Ai's explanation about the Buddha
**Optimus issuing his orders
**Railspike and Rapid Run dodging Sky-Byte
**Sky-Byte marvelling at the dragon fresco
**Sky-Byte reeling after the dragon roars at him
**X-Brawn warning the Predacons not to try battling the dragon
**Midnight Express informing Optimus he's ready to go
**Tow-Line giving instructions to Railspike and Rapid Run
**The Autobots watching the Predacons retreat
**Tow-Line lowering the Buddha statue

===Continuity notes===
*Doctor Onishi's microchip was retrieved by the Autobots in "[[The Secret of the Ruins]]".
*Optimus recognises the O-Parts from the [[Golden Age]], implying he's been around since then. (Of course we don't know when the Golden Age in RID ''was''...)

===Real-world references===
*Side Burn chases Kelly along the [[Great Wall of China]], though it is never identified as such.
*Despite the statues featured in this episode all very clearly being those of [[w:Amitābha|Amida Buddha]], they are never referred to as such (in the dub, that is).

===Animation and technical errors===
*Despite being a hologram T-AI is able to type on the keyboards when she and Prime decide to contact the other Autobots.

===Trivia===
*As noted above, this episode goes out of its way to avoid mentioning the fact the events take place in China, or that the statues involved with the plot are Buddhist in nature.
*Thanks to [[Side Burn (RID)|Side Burn]], [[Kelly (RID)|Kelly]]'s car fell off a cliff, and naturally, Kelly did too. But the disappearing statue is so overwhelming, that his top priority is to get its news back to [[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus]], and most certainly not the girl whose car he chased off a cliff. We don't really know who rescued Kelly, but we could assume that it was the humans from the film set, or it could have been the [[Autobots (RID)|Autobots]], when they arrived to stage their prank.

==Home video releases==
{{homevidnote}}
;DVD
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 2000 — ''Transformers: Car Robots'' — Vol. 3 ([[Pony Canyon]]) — Japanese audio only.<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2004 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Three-Disc Box Set: Part 1 of 2 ([[Maximum Entertainment]])<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2007 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Season One (Maximum Entertainment)<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2007 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Ultimate Collection (Maximum Entertainment)

==External links==
*[http://www.ridforever.info/episode-transcripts/rid-episode-12-the-ultimate-robot-warrior "The Ultimate Robot Warrior" transcript on RiDForever.info]

{{DEFAULTSORT:Ultimate Robot Warrior}}
[[Category:Robots in Disguise (2001) episodes]]

The Ultimate Robot Warrior

2016-10-28T08:12:21Z

Furhun: /* Trivia */

{{disambig2|the ''Robots in Disguise'' episode|the Transformer someitmes called the "Ultimate Warrior"|Last Autobot}}

{{episode|
|series=RiD
|ep=12
|next=Hope for the Future
|series2=Transformers: Car Robots
|next2=Gigatron's Ambitions Revealed!
|title="The Ultimate Robot Warrior"
|japanese=究極! 大仏トランスフォーマー
|romaji=Kyūkyoku! Daibutsu Transformer
|translation=The Ultimate Extreme! The Large Buddha Statue Transformer
|image=Ultimate Robot Warrior Statuemissiles.jpg
|caption=Hey, where's his face paint and arm tassels?
|production code=
|production company=[[TV Tokyo]], [[Nihon Ad Systems|NAS]], [[Studio Gallop]]
|written by=[[Kazuhiko Gōdo]] (Japanese)<br>[[Richard Epcar]] (English)
|director=[[Yoshiaki Tsutsui]]
|animation studio=Studio Gallop
|airdate=[[June 21]], [[2000]] (Japanese)<br>[[September 21]], [[2001]] (English)
|continuity=
}}

'''Ultimate robot?'''<br>
'''Megatron, you silly sod'''<br>
'''It's just a movie.'''

==Synopsis==
[[File:Ultimate Robot Warrior Gasskunkdragon.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|Hey, Ricky Steamboat isn't supposed to be in this episode!]]
Sifting through [[Kenneth Onishi|Doctor Onishi]]'s mind with the [[psycho-probe]], [[Megatron (RID)|Megatron]] finds a mention of the mysterious "[[Cave of the Dragon]]". [[Sky-Byte (RID)|Sky-Byte]] suggests there may be something important concealed there; this intrigues Megatron, who orders the [[Predacon (RID)|Predacons]] to look into it. A sulky [[Gas Skunk]] would rather watch TV...where he stumbles on a news broadcast at the cave, purporting to show a giant statue which changes into a firebreathing dragon. Gas Skunk promptly races off to inform Megatron and Sky-Byte, thus conveniently failing to hear that the dragon is a special effect for a movie. Megatron is eager to recruit this apparently powerful Transformer into his ranks, and Sky-Byte assures him he'll take care of it.

Unsure where the cave is, the Predacons start hunting for statues all over the planet; unsurprisingly, they don't have a lot of luck getting them to transform. When the [[Autobot]]s show up to chase [[Slapper (RID)|Slapper]] away from his latest target, they have no idea what he's talking about, but their confused denials only encourage the Predacons' delusions.

Back at Autobot headquarters, [[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus]] and [[T-AI]] are trying to figure out the Predacons' sudden statue obsession. [[Koji Onishi|Koji]] mentions that there are statues in the Cave of the Dragon, where his dad used to spend a lot of time. T-AI thinks he may be on to something, as [[Doctor Onishi's microchip]] also mentions the cave. The [[Autobot Brothers]] are sent out to investigate.

[[File:Ultimate Robot Warrior Skybytestatue.jpg|right|upright=1.1|thumb|What evil deeds must one do to be reincarnated as Sky-Byte?]]
[[Side Burn (RID)|Side Burn]], however, is more interested in chasing after [[Kelly (RID)|Kelly]]. His courtship attempts are cut short when a sudden blinding fog rolls in; trying to find his automotive amour, he runs into Sky-Byte, who's finally located the cave. Both are startled to see a huge figure come towards them in the fog—and then vanish! Sky-Byte promptly reports the sighting to Megatron (who is not terribly impressed by a view of empty space and an assurance that "it was here a second ago"). Back at Autobot HQ, T-AI explains to Side Burn that the whole thing was just more special effects. This gives Optimus an idea....

[[File:Ultimate Robot Warrior Dragonpredacons.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|"Chinese fire drill! For real this time!"]]
Sky-Byte goes exploring in the cave, leaving the Predacons outside to keep the Autobots away—and then passes directly by [[Railspike (RID)|Railspike]] and [[Rapid Run (RID)|Rapid Run]] without noticing. He finally locates the "dragon" (actually the two trainbots in clever disguise) and promptly runs away screaming when it chases him. Outside, the Autobot Brothers show up, claiming they're here to stop the Predacons from desecrating a "sacred place," and a fight ensues until the dragon arrives; the Autobots retreat, pretending (badly) to be terrified of it. The Predacons think this is their opportunity, but they are driven back when the dragon "transforms" into a giant statue firing storms of missiles at them (despite a slight hitch when the statue, or rather the Autobots inside it, falls over and can't get up). When Optimus manages to disentangle himself from the statue and declares that he's here to defend the "giant robot", the Predacons decide retreat is definitely the wiser course.

Back in the cave, the Autobots discover that one of the real statues has a [[O-Part|mysterious Cybertronian artifact]] in its forehead. Optimus comments on the irony: the Predacons were chasing after a mythical dragon when what they really wanted was right here.

==Featured characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
*[[Rapid Run (RID)|Rapid Run]] (7)
*[[X-Brawn]] (8)
*[[Prowl (RID)|Prowl]] (9)
*[[Side Burn (RID)|Side Burn]] (10)
*[[T-AI]] (11)
*[[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus Prime]] (12)
*[[Railspike (RID)|Railspike]] (16)
*[[Tow-Line (RID)|Tow-Line]] (17)
*[[Midnight Express (RID)|Midnight Express]] (18)

|h2=[[Predacon (RID)|Predacons]]
|c2=
*[[Megatron (RID)|Megatron]] (2)
*[[Sky-Byte (RID)|Sky-Byte]] (3)
*[[Gas Skunk]] (4)
*[[Slapper (RID)|Slapper]] (6)
*[[Dark Scream]] (14)

|c3=
*[[Kenneth Onishi|Doctor Kenneth Onishi]] (1)
*[[Dorie Dutton]] (5)
*[[Koji Onishi]] (13)
*[[Kelly (RID)|Kelly]] (15)
}}

==Quotes==
"Oh honey, you take those curves like a pro! I must say, sweetheart, your driving skills have improved a lot!"<br>
"The only reason my driving skills improve is because you're always chasing me!"
:—'''Side Burn''' and '''Kelly'''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s version of flirtatious banter

"I really resent having to be the caboose."<br>
"Part's perfect for you. So pipe down and keep walking."
:—'''Rapid Run''' and '''Railspike''' discuss who gets to be which part of the dragon.

'''X-Brawn''': "He's too powerful for us!"<br>
'''Side Burn''': "He's unstoppable! We should really get out of here while we still have the chance!"<br>
'''Rapid Run''': "That was terrible. Sounded like they were just reading their lines. They need to give it some umph!"
:—'''Rapid Run''', acting critic

'''Slapper:''' "Why are you always the first to run away?"<br>
'''Sky-Byte:''' "I lead the retreat."

==Notes==
===Differences with ''Car Robots''===
*In ''Car Robots'', Gas Skunk is trying to repair a malfunctioning monitor, while in ''Robots in Disguise'', he's goofing off trying to watch TV.
*In ''Car Robots'', the Cave of the Dragon is the real-life [[Wikipedia:Longmen Grottoes|Longmen Grottoes]], also known as the "Dragon's Gate Grottoes."
*''Robots in Disguise'' adds some extra dialogue from Dorrie Dutton that makes clear for the audience from the outset that the Buddha statue's transformation is the work of Hollywood special effects.
*As Gas Skunk explains what he's seen to Megatron, ''Car Robots'' has the Predacon leader ask his underling if he is sure of what he's seen. ''Robots in Disguise'' appears to miss this, and Gas Skunk continues talking even though his mouth stops moving and Megatron's starts.
*In ''Car Robots'', Sky-Byte wonders about the accuracy of Gas Skunk's report, and Gas Skunk angrily insists it's true. In ''Robots in Disguise'', on the other hand, Sky-Byte leaps in to promise Megatron he'll bring the Buddha back, and Gas Skunk is miffed since he found out about it first. Additionally, ''Robots in Disguise'' adds an extra shot of Megatron to the end of this scene warning Sky-Byte not to fail.
*As is standard for the series, ''Robots in Disguise'' omits some specific references to the Japanese cities of Kamakura and Nara, where the Predacons start looking for Buddha statues. The statues they investigate exist in these locations in real life.
*In ''Robots in Disguise'', Megatron seems to rather randomly transform to bat-mode for no reason; in ''Car Robots'', it's because he's planning to go to the Cave of the Dragon with the other Predacons. Of course, he ''doesn't'', so, um...
*''Robots in Disguise'' again omits some of the specific reference Side Burn makes to their location amidst his attempts at pitching woo in ''Car Robots'', including mentions of the [[Wikipedia: Silk Road|Silk Road]] and the [[Wikipedia:Tian Shan|Tian Shan]].
[[File:UltimateRobotWarrior POVs.jpg|right|thumb|225px]]
*''Robots in Disguise'' enhances Sky-Byte's POV tracking shot (of the same shark-mouth design as that seen in "The Secret of the Ruins") with a CGI overlay.
*An extra shot of T-AI turning back to Optimus after declaring the Battle Protocol is added to ''Robots in Disguise'' to segue into commercial break.
*Slapper expects the Buddha to be inside the cave in ''Car Robots'', but he's doubtful as to why it would be in there in ''Robots in Disguise''.
*''Robots in Disguise'' has Darkscream think the Buddha won't be hard to spot, while in ''Car Robots'', he's concerned the fog will make the situation just the opposite.
*Gas Skunk is excited to find the Buddha in ''Car Robots'', but bored and eager to get out of the cave in ''Robots in Disguise''.
*''Robots in Disguise'' slows down the footage of the Autobot Brothers' transformation outside the Cave of the Dragon just a little.
*In ''Robots in Disguise'', the petrified Sky-Byte's focus is entirely on recruiting the dragon inside the cave, while in ''Car Robots'', he's more worried about the distraction the Autobot Brothers are causing from the creature's threat.
*In ''Car Robots'', it's Gas Skunk who realizes the dragon is not attacking the Autobots, while in ''Robots in Disguise'', it's Sky-Byte.
*The Autobots stand around and joke about the Predacons retreating in ''Car Robots''; then, after Tow-Line drops the statue, Prime orders them into the cave. ''Robots in Disguise'' replaces their joking with Prime giving his order, so they can fit in a different joke: when Tow-Line drops the Buddha statue, ''Robots in Disguise'' replaces Prime's order with him despairing, since they were supposed to return it to the movie set.
*''Car Robots'' has Prime refer to the O-Part that the team discovers in the cave by name. ''Robots in Disguise'' omitted this, which would wind up causing headaches down the line when the airing order of the series, and this plotline in particular, was badly disrupted.
*''Robots in Disguise'' has Optimus say that he hasn't seen "one of these" (the O-Part) since the Golden Age of Cybertron (see below), while in ''Car Robots'', he instead expresses confusion about how it's even possible for an O-Part to "exist during this time."
*Scenes briefly extended for ''Robots in Disguise'' include:
**The lingering shot of the Psycho-Probe
**Megatron's throne room just before Gas Skunk runs in
**The Autobot Brothers' puzzled reaction to Slapper's words about the transforming Buddha
**Side Burn backing up before transforming to face Sky-Byte
**Side Burn reacting to T-Ai's explanation about the Buddha
**Optimus issuing his orders
**Railspike and Rapid Run dodging Sky-Byte
**Sky-Byte marvelling at the dragon fresco
**Sky-Byte reeling after the dragon roars at him
**X-Brawn warning the Predacons not to try battling the dragon
**Midnight Express informing Optimus he's ready to go
**Tow-Line giving instructions to Railspike and Rapid Run
**The Autobots watching the Predacons retreat
**Tow-Line lowering the Buddha statue

===Continuity notes===
*Doctor Onishi's microchip was retrieved by the Autobots in "[[The Secret of the Ruins]]".
*Optimus recognises the O-Parts from the [[Golden Age]], implying he's been around since then. (Of course we don't know when the Golden Age in RID ''was''...)

===Real-world references===
*Side Burn chases Kelly along the [[Great Wall of China]], though it is never identified as such.
*Despite the statues featured in this episode all very clearly being those of [[w:Amitābha|Amida Buddha]], they are never referred to as such (in the dub, that is).

===Animation and technical errors===
*Despite being a hologram T-AI is able to type on the keyboards when she and Prime decide to contact the other Autobots.

===Trivia===
*As noted above, this episode goes out of its way to avoid mentioning the fact the events take place in China, or that the statues involved with the plot are Buddhist in nature.
*Thanks to [[Side Burn (RID)]], [[Kelly (RID)|Kelly]]'s car fell off a cliff, and naturally, Kelly did too. But the disappearing statue is so overwhelming, that his top priority is to get its news back to [[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus]], and most certainly not the girl whose car he chased off a cliff. We don't really know who rescued Kelly, but we could assume that it was the humans from the film set, or it could have been the [[Autobots (RID)|Autobots]], when they arrived to stage their prank.

==Home video releases==
{{homevidnote}}
;DVD
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 2000 — ''Transformers: Car Robots'' — Vol. 3 ([[Pony Canyon]]) — Japanese audio only.<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2004 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Three-Disc Box Set: Part 1 of 2 ([[Maximum Entertainment]])<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2007 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Season One (Maximum Entertainment)<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2007 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Ultimate Collection (Maximum Entertainment)

==External links==
*[http://www.ridforever.info/episode-transcripts/rid-episode-12-the-ultimate-robot-warrior "The Ultimate Robot Warrior" transcript on RiDForever.info]

{{DEFAULTSORT:Ultimate Robot Warrior}}
[[Category:Robots in Disguise (2001) episodes]]

File:Tow-Line Goes Haywire OptimusBattleMode.jpg

2016-10-28T07:24:06Z

Furhun:

{{RID2001cap|The first shot shows [[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus]] chilling at the Autobot base while in his battle mode. I mean, you gotta flaunt those gains every once in a while?
The second shot shows how he wisely chose to fight in his standard mode.
|Tow-Line Goes Haywire|1}}

Tow-Line Goes Haywire

2016-10-28T07:18:42Z

Furhun: /* Trivia */

{{episode|
|series=RiD
|ep=11
|title="Tow-Line Goes Haywire"
|japanese=駐車違反だ! レッカーフック
|romanji=Chūshaihan da! Wrecker Hook
|translation=Parking Violation! Wrecker Hook
|image=Tow-Line Goes Haywire Side burn.jpg
|caption=Usually Side Burn has to pay for this sort of treatment
|production code=
|production company=[[TV Tokyo]], [[Nihon Ad Systems|NAS]], [[Studio Gallop]]
|airdate=[[June 14]], [[2000]] (Japanese)<br>[[September 20]], [[2001]] (English)
|written by=[[Yukiyoshi Ōhashi]] (Japanese)<br>[[Matthew V. Lewis]] (English)
|director=[[Akira Katō]]
|animation studio=Studio Gallop
|continuity=
}}

'''Tow-Line has one rule''':<br>
'''No Parking Means No Parking'''<br>
'''Even for his friends.'''

==Synopsis==
[[File:Tow-Line Goes Haywire Towlineprowl.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|This is such a drag.]]
[[Side Burn (RID)|Side Burn]], up to his usual antics, tries to seduce a red sports car, but his attempts to woo are arrested by [[Tow-Line (RID)|Tow-Line]], who punishes the [[Autobot]] for parking in a No Parking Zone. The tow-truck drags Side Burn to [[Prowl (RID)|Prowl]], who introduces the truck as the newest Autobot soldier. Inside the Autobot base, Prowl inducts Tow-Line into the police's traffic patrol. (Illegal parking is apparently a high priority for the Autobots.)

Tow-Line starts working immediately, and takes his job with extreme dedication. Eventually, Tow-Line's mania goes out of control, and he begins to impound misplaced tricycles and wedding vehicles. After Prowl explains the limits of Tow-Line's jurisdiction, [[Sky-Byte (RID)|Sky-Byte]] and [[Gas Skunk]] notice the new Autobot and begin a sinister plot.

[[File:Tow-Line Goes Haywire Slappermetronome.jpg|right|upright=1.1|thumb|They're digging in the wrong place!]]
The [[Predacon (RID)|Predacon]] trio wait inside of a mis-parked truck, and when Tow Line inevitably comes to tow the truck away, the three Predacons ambush the rookie. They bring Tow-Line to Sky-Byte and begin the process of brainwashing the truck into a loyal Predacon. [[Slapper (RID)|Slapper]] tries to hypnotize Tow-Line using a dangling pendant, but only succeeds in putting himself to sleep. [[Gas Skunk]] explains they should try using a metronome (again, failing). Eventually, [[Dark Scream]] loads a brainwashing program into the captive via disc drive. Tow-Line, unbalanced, is released to enforce his own rules on the Autobots.

A misguided Tow-Line first steals a bewildered [[X-Brawn]] away from an indignant [[Kelly (RID)|Kelly]]. On the road, X-Brawn uses his own grappling apparatus to try to stop Tow-Line's deluded quest, but merely harms Tow-Line's memory banks. Even more confused than before, Tow-Line brings X-Brawn to a power plant and deposits the Autobot into a holding box.

[[File:Tow-Line Goes Haywire Towlinerapidrun.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|Bullet trains do not work that way! Good night!]]
Tow-Line's next victim is Side Burn, who is deposited into the same box. Next, Tow-Line captures [[Rapid Run (RID)|Rapid Run]] and carries the large train through the city to the deposit box. Prowl and [[Koji Onishi|Koji]] see the capture and give chase, but lose their target in rush hour traffic. But at least now the other Autobots know that something is afoot.

Once they meet up, Prowl and [[Optimus Prime (RID)|Prime]] confront Tow-Line in part of a staged intervention to help him deal with his towing addiction. Tow-Line makes it clear that he's gone a bit wonko when he accuses Prime of being the Autobots' "evil mastermind." Sky-Byte and the Predacons arrive to help their "friend", but Prime quickly blasts away the goons. Taking Tow-Line home for diagnostics, Prime notices the disc placed inside of Tow-Line by Dark Scream. With his mind restored, Tow-Line brings the two Autobots to rescue the others he stored at the power plant.

The Autobots find their allies, and Tow-Line apologizes for the kidnapping. [[Megatron (RID)|Megatron]] and all the Predacons show up again, but are defeated almost as quickly as they were earlier. Tow-Line goes back to apologize, and Optimus explains that compassion and understanding are important values to uphold (even if it means arresting Prowl during the epilogue).

==Featured characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
*[[Side Burn (RID)|Side Burn]] (1)
*[[Tow-Line (RID)|Tow-Line]] (2)
*[[Prowl (RID)|Prowl]] (4)
*[[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus Prime]] (5)
*[[T-AI]] (6)
*[[X-Brawn]] (7)
*[[Rapid Run (RID)|Rapid Run]] (13)

|h2=[[Predacon (RID)|Predacons]]
|c2=
*[[Sky-Byte (RID)|Sky-Byte]] (8)
*[[Gas Skunk]] (9)
*[[Slapper (RID)|Slapper]] (10)
*[[Dark Scream]] (11)
*[[Megatron (RID)|Megatron]] (14)

|c3=
*[[Koji Onishi]] (3)
*[[Kelly (RID)|Kelly]] (12)
}}

==Quotes==
"No parking means no parking!"
:—'''Tow-Line''', all the time

"There's nothing I can do. You knew the law, you broke the law, and now the law is towing you away."
:—'''Tow-Line''' to his first <s>victim</s> offender

"Okay, so I'm not allowed to tow away bicycles, wedding cars, ambulances, broken-down buses, funeral escorts, parade floats, campaigning senators or mailmen named [[Moe]]. Is that all?"<br>
"Uh, no mailmen, period. ''(muttered)'' Oh, boy."
:—'''Tow-Line''' gets very detailed instructions from a long-suffering '''Prowl'''.

"First he towed away a couple of kids' bikes, then he completely messed up a honeymoon. It's almost as if he's already working for us."
:—'''Gas Skunk''' doesn't have very high standards for the Predacons.

"Can I have the harbor? I love those little boats."
:—'''Gas Skunk''' doesn't have very high standards for real estate either.

'''Sky-Byte''': If all goes as planned, that fool Tow-Line will bring the Autobots to us. And when he delivers them, they'll be totally helpless.<br>
'''Slapper''': Hey, this is even better than having a pizza delivered!<br>
'''Gas Skunk''': I wonder if we get the guarantee. I want 'em all here in thirty minutes or less.
:— Evidently, robotic toads and smelly skunks like pizza. Oooookay...

==Notes==
===Differences with ''Car Robots''===
*In ''Car Robots'', Side Burn spends the whole opening scene talking to the red sports car on display; ''Robots in Disguise'' has him rattle off its specs to no-one in particular, only attempting to communicate with it towards the end of the scene. His attempt at singing a song is a fun dub addition.
*In ''Car Robots'', the parking code is practically a religion for Tow-Line—he's not just a stickler for the rules like in ''Robots in Disguise'', but also gives florid speeches about how God will never forgive someone who parks improperly!
*''Car Robots'' explains that the "no parking" sticker-thing that Tow-Line clamps on Side Burn prevents him from transforming. ''Robots in Disguise'' doesn't explain what it's for.
*Rather than ask if Tow-Line has been briefed on Battle Protocol as she does in ''Robots in Disguise'', ''Car Robots'' has T-AI simply ask if he knows the other Autobots.
*The truck driver who is Tow-Line's first victim gets some extra off-screen dialogue in ''Robots in Disguise'' setting up his situation before he pokes his head out the window.
*''Robots in Disguise'' has Prowl lay some specific ground rules for Tow-Line in between scenes, which the tow-truck repeats as he hauls the next perpetrator off. In ''Car Robots'', that didn't happen, and Tow-Line makes the tow in silence; Prowl doesn't seem to be too bothered by his over-enthusiastic methods in the Japanese version!
*Gas Skunk deems Tow-Line "heroic" in ''Car Robots'', while ''Robots in Disguise'' has him crack that the trouble he's caused makes the new Autobot already seem to be working for the Predacons.
*CGI POV targeting overlays are added to ''Robots in Disguise'' as the Predacon trio take Tow-Line down.
*As the Predacons watch Tow-Line drive off, ''Car Robots'' has them gloat over their plan and the fact they can take it easy while the Autobot does all the work. In ''Robots in Disguise'', they talk about dividing up the conquered city between them.
*In ''Robots in Disguise'', Tow-Line accuses the Autobots he captures of various generic energy thefts, but in ''Car Robots'', on the other hand, he's been specifically programmed to believe past Predacon plots were the work of the Autobots. As such, he believes X-Brawn was behind the trouble with the [[Linear RFG]] back in "[[Bullet Train to the Rescue]]", and Side Burn was responsible for the attack on the truck carrying the [[Plutonium Energy Generator]] in "[[Spychangers to the Rescue]]".
*His memory scrambled, ''Car Robots'' has Tow-Line try to remember whether he had to take X-Brawn to either a bakery or a police station. To explain why he decides to trap him where he does, ''Robots in Disguise'' changes this to him choosing between the docks and a power plant, opting for the latter.
*In ''Car Robots'', Side Burn briefly believes that rather than ''capture'' him, Tow-Line has brought him to meet with X-Brawn at his elder brother's request.
*When listing off Rapid Run's crimes, ''Car Robots'' has Tow-Line add the damage caused to the building by their sharp cornering, over Rapid Run's spluttering protestations that it was Tow-Line's own fault.
*After being hauled out of their prison pit, the Autobots are quite understanding in ''Robots in Disguise'', having been informed by Optimus of what happened. In ''Car Robots'', they haven't been clued in, and turn on Tow-Line until he offers up the explanation.
*Another CGI overlay is added when Optimus blasts Sky-Byte with his Strafe Attack.
*''Robots in Disguise'' tacks a bit of a strained moral about bending the rules to do the right thing onto the end of the episode; in ''Car Robots'', the scene just consists of Tow-Line continuing to say sorry, and Rapid Run accepting his apology.
*Scenes briefly extended for ''Robots in Disguise'' by looping and repeating footage include:
**Most of the first scene in the impound lot, including Prowl greeting Tow-Line, Side Burn offering up his apologies, Prowl admonishing him, and Prowl congratulating Tow-Line
**Tow-Line preparing to round up three violators at once
**Sky-Byte welcoming the captured Tow-Line
**Tow-Line rounding up Side Burn a second time
**Koji alerting Prowl to Tow-Line's actions
**X-Brawn discussing their situation with Rapid Run
**Optimus giving orders to T-AI
**Darkscream informing Sky-Byte he has found Tow-Line
**Tow-Line preparing to arrest Prowl
**Prowl and Optimus facing down Tow-Line
**Prowl encouraging Optimus to take care of the Predacons
**Prowl being dragged off by Tow-Line, complete with a long rant that fades out as the episode ends

===Animation and technical errors===
*As Rapid Run, X-Brawn, and Side Burn stand on each other's shoulders in the power plant, Rapid Run's torso is colored entirely gray in one shot.
*When Tow-Line prepares to tow away Prowl near the episode's end, the underside of Prowl's raised vehicle mode rear end is colored entirely green like Tow-Line at one point.

===Continuity errors===
*X-Brawn uses his grappling hook to break Tow-Line's right-hand window and strike his dash, but the glass is fixed in the next shot where it appears and remains so for the rest of the episode.

===Real-world references===
*When T-AI locates Tow-Line, she says that he's headed westbound on "[[w:Interstate 275|Interstate 275]]". In reality, there are four different interstate highways with this number: One in Florida, one in Tennessee, one in Michigan, and one that loops through Ohio, Indiana, and Kentucky.

===Trivia===
[[File:Tow-Line Goes Haywire OptimusBattleMode.jpg|right|upright=1.1|thumb|When your Super Mode so "super" that you choose to not brawl in it.]]
*Although the Predacon plots that Tow-Line accuses the Autobots of doing are typical of the plots the Predacons usually go through, they don't specifically match foiled schemes that have happened in the series thus far. This implies that the Predacons have been in several off screen adventures that never made it into the episodes. The most shocking thing about these tidbits is that it implies the Predacons have been ''successful'' at stealing energy on multiple occasions. That's pretty embarrassing.
*For no apparent reason, Optimus is seeing parading around the Autobot base in his Super/Battle Mode, but when he actually does get into a fight, he chooses to fight it in his standard robot mode.
*This is the second time Optimus has been seen walking the base in his robot mode. (The first being in the episode "[[Mirage's_Betrayal]]") Reason? Sell more toys.

==Home video releases==
{{homevidnote}}
;DVD
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 2000 — ''Transformers: Car Robots'' — Vol. 3 ([[Pony Canyon]]) — Japanese audio only.<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2004 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Three-Disc Box Set: Part 1 of 2 ([[Maximum Entertainment]])<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2007 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Season One (Maximum Entertainment)<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2007 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Ultimate Collection (Maximum Entertainment)

==External links==
*[http://www.ridforever.info/episode-transcripts/rid-episode-11-tow-line-goes-haywire Tow-Line Goes Haywire transcript on RiDForever.info]

[[Category:Robots in Disguise (2001) episodes]]

File:Tow-Line Goes Haywire OptimusBattleMode.jpg

2016-10-28T07:14:51Z

Furhun: The first shot shows Optimus chilling at the Autobot base while in his battle mode. I mean, you gotta flaunt those gains every once in a while? The second shot shows how he wisely chose to fight in his standard mode.

The first shot shows Optimus chilling at the Autobot base while in his battle mode. I mean, you gotta flaunt those gains every once in a while?
The second shot shows how he wisely chose to fight in his standard mode.

Tow-Line Goes Haywire

2016-10-28T07:02:54Z

Furhun: /* Trivia */

{{episode|
|series=RiD
|ep=11
|title="Tow-Line Goes Haywire"
|japanese=駐車違反だ! レッカーフック
|romanji=Chūshaihan da! Wrecker Hook
|translation=Parking Violation! Wrecker Hook
|image=Tow-Line Goes Haywire Side burn.jpg
|caption=Usually Side Burn has to pay for this sort of treatment
|production code=
|production company=[[TV Tokyo]], [[Nihon Ad Systems|NAS]], [[Studio Gallop]]
|airdate=[[June 14]], [[2000]] (Japanese)<br>[[September 20]], [[2001]] (English)
|written by=[[Yukiyoshi Ōhashi]] (Japanese)<br>[[Matthew V. Lewis]] (English)
|director=[[Akira Katō]]
|animation studio=Studio Gallop
|continuity=
}}

'''Tow-Line has one rule''':<br>
'''No Parking Means No Parking'''<br>
'''Even for his friends.'''

==Synopsis==
[[File:Tow-Line Goes Haywire Towlineprowl.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|This is such a drag.]]
[[Side Burn (RID)|Side Burn]], up to his usual antics, tries to seduce a red sports car, but his attempts to woo are arrested by [[Tow-Line (RID)|Tow-Line]], who punishes the [[Autobot]] for parking in a No Parking Zone. The tow-truck drags Side Burn to [[Prowl (RID)|Prowl]], who introduces the truck as the newest Autobot soldier. Inside the Autobot base, Prowl inducts Tow-Line into the police's traffic patrol. (Illegal parking is apparently a high priority for the Autobots.)

Tow-Line starts working immediately, and takes his job with extreme dedication. Eventually, Tow-Line's mania goes out of control, and he begins to impound misplaced tricycles and wedding vehicles. After Prowl explains the limits of Tow-Line's jurisdiction, [[Sky-Byte (RID)|Sky-Byte]] and [[Gas Skunk]] notice the new Autobot and begin a sinister plot.

[[File:Tow-Line Goes Haywire Slappermetronome.jpg|right|upright=1.1|thumb|They're digging in the wrong place!]]
The [[Predacon (RID)|Predacon]] trio wait inside of a mis-parked truck, and when Tow Line inevitably comes to tow the truck away, the three Predacons ambush the rookie. They bring Tow-Line to Sky-Byte and begin the process of brainwashing the truck into a loyal Predacon. [[Slapper (RID)|Slapper]] tries to hypnotize Tow-Line using a dangling pendant, but only succeeds in putting himself to sleep. [[Gas Skunk]] explains they should try using a metronome (again, failing). Eventually, [[Dark Scream]] loads a brainwashing program into the captive via disc drive. Tow-Line, unbalanced, is released to enforce his own rules on the Autobots.

A misguided Tow-Line first steals a bewildered [[X-Brawn]] away from an indignant [[Kelly (RID)|Kelly]]. On the road, X-Brawn uses his own grappling apparatus to try to stop Tow-Line's deluded quest, but merely harms Tow-Line's memory banks. Even more confused than before, Tow-Line brings X-Brawn to a power plant and deposits the Autobot into a holding box.

[[File:Tow-Line Goes Haywire Towlinerapidrun.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|Bullet trains do not work that way! Good night!]]
Tow-Line's next victim is Side Burn, who is deposited into the same box. Next, Tow-Line captures [[Rapid Run (RID)|Rapid Run]] and carries the large train through the city to the deposit box. Prowl and [[Koji Onishi|Koji]] see the capture and give chase, but lose their target in rush hour traffic. But at least now the other Autobots know that something is afoot.

Once they meet up, Prowl and [[Optimus Prime (RID)|Prime]] confront Tow-Line in part of a staged intervention to help him deal with his towing addiction. Tow-Line makes it clear that he's gone a bit wonko when he accuses Prime of being the Autobots' "evil mastermind." Sky-Byte and the Predacons arrive to help their "friend", but Prime quickly blasts away the goons. Taking Tow-Line home for diagnostics, Prime notices the disc placed inside of Tow-Line by Dark Scream. With his mind restored, Tow-Line brings the two Autobots to rescue the others he stored at the power plant.

The Autobots find their allies, and Tow-Line apologizes for the kidnapping. [[Megatron (RID)|Megatron]] and all the Predacons show up again, but are defeated almost as quickly as they were earlier. Tow-Line goes back to apologize, and Optimus explains that compassion and understanding are important values to uphold (even if it means arresting Prowl during the epilogue).

==Featured characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
*[[Side Burn (RID)|Side Burn]] (1)
*[[Tow-Line (RID)|Tow-Line]] (2)
*[[Prowl (RID)|Prowl]] (4)
*[[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus Prime]] (5)
*[[T-AI]] (6)
*[[X-Brawn]] (7)
*[[Rapid Run (RID)|Rapid Run]] (13)

|h2=[[Predacon (RID)|Predacons]]
|c2=
*[[Sky-Byte (RID)|Sky-Byte]] (8)
*[[Gas Skunk]] (9)
*[[Slapper (RID)|Slapper]] (10)
*[[Dark Scream]] (11)
*[[Megatron (RID)|Megatron]] (14)

|c3=
*[[Koji Onishi]] (3)
*[[Kelly (RID)|Kelly]] (12)
}}

==Quotes==
"No parking means no parking!"
:—'''Tow-Line''', all the time

"There's nothing I can do. You knew the law, you broke the law, and now the law is towing you away."
:—'''Tow-Line''' to his first <s>victim</s> offender

"Okay, so I'm not allowed to tow away bicycles, wedding cars, ambulances, broken-down buses, funeral escorts, parade floats, campaigning senators or mailmen named [[Moe]]. Is that all?"<br>
"Uh, no mailmen, period. ''(muttered)'' Oh, boy."
:—'''Tow-Line''' gets very detailed instructions from a long-suffering '''Prowl'''.

"First he towed away a couple of kids' bikes, then he completely messed up a honeymoon. It's almost as if he's already working for us."
:—'''Gas Skunk''' doesn't have very high standards for the Predacons.

"Can I have the harbor? I love those little boats."
:—'''Gas Skunk''' doesn't have very high standards for real estate either.

'''Sky-Byte''': If all goes as planned, that fool Tow-Line will bring the Autobots to us. And when he delivers them, they'll be totally helpless.<br>
'''Slapper''': Hey, this is even better than having a pizza delivered!<br>
'''Gas Skunk''': I wonder if we get the guarantee. I want 'em all here in thirty minutes or less.
:— Evidently, robotic toads and smelly skunks like pizza. Oooookay...

==Notes==
===Differences with ''Car Robots''===
*In ''Car Robots'', Side Burn spends the whole opening scene talking to the red sports car on display; ''Robots in Disguise'' has him rattle off its specs to no-one in particular, only attempting to communicate with it towards the end of the scene. His attempt at singing a song is a fun dub addition.
*In ''Car Robots'', the parking code is practically a religion for Tow-Line—he's not just a stickler for the rules like in ''Robots in Disguise'', but also gives florid speeches about how God will never forgive someone who parks improperly!
*''Car Robots'' explains that the "no parking" sticker-thing that Tow-Line clamps on Side Burn prevents him from transforming. ''Robots in Disguise'' doesn't explain what it's for.
*Rather than ask if Tow-Line has been briefed on Battle Protocol as she does in ''Robots in Disguise'', ''Car Robots'' has T-AI simply ask if he knows the other Autobots.
*The truck driver who is Tow-Line's first victim gets some extra off-screen dialogue in ''Robots in Disguise'' setting up his situation before he pokes his head out the window.
*''Robots in Disguise'' has Prowl lay some specific ground rules for Tow-Line in between scenes, which the tow-truck repeats as he hauls the next perpetrator off. In ''Car Robots'', that didn't happen, and Tow-Line makes the tow in silence; Prowl doesn't seem to be too bothered by his over-enthusiastic methods in the Japanese version!
*Gas Skunk deems Tow-Line "heroic" in ''Car Robots'', while ''Robots in Disguise'' has him crack that the trouble he's caused makes the new Autobot already seem to be working for the Predacons.
*CGI POV targeting overlays are added to ''Robots in Disguise'' as the Predacon trio take Tow-Line down.
*As the Predacons watch Tow-Line drive off, ''Car Robots'' has them gloat over their plan and the fact they can take it easy while the Autobot does all the work. In ''Robots in Disguise'', they talk about dividing up the conquered city between them.
*In ''Robots in Disguise'', Tow-Line accuses the Autobots he captures of various generic energy thefts, but in ''Car Robots'', on the other hand, he's been specifically programmed to believe past Predacon plots were the work of the Autobots. As such, he believes X-Brawn was behind the trouble with the [[Linear RFG]] back in "[[Bullet Train to the Rescue]]", and Side Burn was responsible for the attack on the truck carrying the [[Plutonium Energy Generator]] in "[[Spychangers to the Rescue]]".
*His memory scrambled, ''Car Robots'' has Tow-Line try to remember whether he had to take X-Brawn to either a bakery or a police station. To explain why he decides to trap him where he does, ''Robots in Disguise'' changes this to him choosing between the docks and a power plant, opting for the latter.
*In ''Car Robots'', Side Burn briefly believes that rather than ''capture'' him, Tow-Line has brought him to meet with X-Brawn at his elder brother's request.
*When listing off Rapid Run's crimes, ''Car Robots'' has Tow-Line add the damage caused to the building by their sharp cornering, over Rapid Run's spluttering protestations that it was Tow-Line's own fault.
*After being hauled out of their prison pit, the Autobots are quite understanding in ''Robots in Disguise'', having been informed by Optimus of what happened. In ''Car Robots'', they haven't been clued in, and turn on Tow-Line until he offers up the explanation.
*Another CGI overlay is added when Optimus blasts Sky-Byte with his Strafe Attack.
*''Robots in Disguise'' tacks a bit of a strained moral about bending the rules to do the right thing onto the end of the episode; in ''Car Robots'', the scene just consists of Tow-Line continuing to say sorry, and Rapid Run accepting his apology.
*Scenes briefly extended for ''Robots in Disguise'' by looping and repeating footage include:
**Most of the first scene in the impound lot, including Prowl greeting Tow-Line, Side Burn offering up his apologies, Prowl admonishing him, and Prowl congratulating Tow-Line
**Tow-Line preparing to round up three violators at once
**Sky-Byte welcoming the captured Tow-Line
**Tow-Line rounding up Side Burn a second time
**Koji alerting Prowl to Tow-Line's actions
**X-Brawn discussing their situation with Rapid Run
**Optimus giving orders to T-AI
**Darkscream informing Sky-Byte he has found Tow-Line
**Tow-Line preparing to arrest Prowl
**Prowl and Optimus facing down Tow-Line
**Prowl encouraging Optimus to take care of the Predacons
**Prowl being dragged off by Tow-Line, complete with a long rant that fades out as the episode ends

===Animation and technical errors===
*As Rapid Run, X-Brawn, and Side Burn stand on each other's shoulders in the power plant, Rapid Run's torso is colored entirely gray in one shot.
*When Tow-Line prepares to tow away Prowl near the episode's end, the underside of Prowl's raised vehicle mode rear end is colored entirely green like Tow-Line at one point.

===Continuity errors===
*X-Brawn uses his grappling hook to break Tow-Line's right-hand window and strike his dash, but the glass is fixed in the next shot where it appears and remains so for the rest of the episode.

===Real-world references===
*When T-AI locates Tow-Line, she says that he's headed westbound on "[[w:Interstate 275|Interstate 275]]". In reality, there are four different interstate highways with this number: One in Florida, one in Tennessee, one in Michigan, and one that loops through Ohio, Indiana, and Kentucky.

===Trivia===
*Although the Predacon plots that Tow-Line accuses the Autobots of doing are typical of the plots the Predacons usually go through, they don't specifically match foiled schemes that have happened in the series thus far. This implies that the Predacons have been in several off screen adventures that never made it into the episodes. The most shocking thing about these tidbits is that it implies the Predacons have been ''successful'' at stealing energy on multiple occasions. That's pretty embarrassing.
*For no apparent reason, Optimus is seeing parading around the Autobot base in his Super/Battle Mode, but when he actually does get into a fight, he chooses to fight it in his standard robot mode.
*This is the second time Optimus has been seen walking the base in his robot mode. (The first being in the episode "[[Mirage's_Betrayal]]") Reason? Sell more toys.

==Home video releases==
{{homevidnote}}
;DVD
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 2000 — ''Transformers: Car Robots'' — Vol. 3 ([[Pony Canyon]]) — Japanese audio only.<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2004 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Three-Disc Box Set: Part 1 of 2 ([[Maximum Entertainment]])<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2007 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Season One (Maximum Entertainment)<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2007 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Ultimate Collection (Maximum Entertainment)

==External links==
*[http://www.ridforever.info/episode-transcripts/rid-episode-11-tow-line-goes-haywire Tow-Line Goes Haywire transcript on RiDForever.info]

[[Category:Robots in Disguise (2001) episodes]]

Tow-Line Goes Haywire

2016-10-28T07:02:16Z

Furhun: /* Trivia */

{{episode|
|series=RiD
|ep=11
|title="Tow-Line Goes Haywire"
|japanese=駐車違反だ! レッカーフック
|romanji=Chūshaihan da! Wrecker Hook
|translation=Parking Violation! Wrecker Hook
|image=Tow-Line Goes Haywire Side burn.jpg
|caption=Usually Side Burn has to pay for this sort of treatment
|production code=
|production company=[[TV Tokyo]], [[Nihon Ad Systems|NAS]], [[Studio Gallop]]
|airdate=[[June 14]], [[2000]] (Japanese)<br>[[September 20]], [[2001]] (English)
|written by=[[Yukiyoshi Ōhashi]] (Japanese)<br>[[Matthew V. Lewis]] (English)
|director=[[Akira Katō]]
|animation studio=Studio Gallop
|continuity=
}}

'''Tow-Line has one rule''':<br>
'''No Parking Means No Parking'''<br>
'''Even for his friends.'''

==Synopsis==
[[File:Tow-Line Goes Haywire Towlineprowl.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|This is such a drag.]]
[[Side Burn (RID)|Side Burn]], up to his usual antics, tries to seduce a red sports car, but his attempts to woo are arrested by [[Tow-Line (RID)|Tow-Line]], who punishes the [[Autobot]] for parking in a No Parking Zone. The tow-truck drags Side Burn to [[Prowl (RID)|Prowl]], who introduces the truck as the newest Autobot soldier. Inside the Autobot base, Prowl inducts Tow-Line into the police's traffic patrol. (Illegal parking is apparently a high priority for the Autobots.)

Tow-Line starts working immediately, and takes his job with extreme dedication. Eventually, Tow-Line's mania goes out of control, and he begins to impound misplaced tricycles and wedding vehicles. After Prowl explains the limits of Tow-Line's jurisdiction, [[Sky-Byte (RID)|Sky-Byte]] and [[Gas Skunk]] notice the new Autobot and begin a sinister plot.

[[File:Tow-Line Goes Haywire Slappermetronome.jpg|right|upright=1.1|thumb|They're digging in the wrong place!]]
The [[Predacon (RID)|Predacon]] trio wait inside of a mis-parked truck, and when Tow Line inevitably comes to tow the truck away, the three Predacons ambush the rookie. They bring Tow-Line to Sky-Byte and begin the process of brainwashing the truck into a loyal Predacon. [[Slapper (RID)|Slapper]] tries to hypnotize Tow-Line using a dangling pendant, but only succeeds in putting himself to sleep. [[Gas Skunk]] explains they should try using a metronome (again, failing). Eventually, [[Dark Scream]] loads a brainwashing program into the captive via disc drive. Tow-Line, unbalanced, is released to enforce his own rules on the Autobots.

A misguided Tow-Line first steals a bewildered [[X-Brawn]] away from an indignant [[Kelly (RID)|Kelly]]. On the road, X-Brawn uses his own grappling apparatus to try to stop Tow-Line's deluded quest, but merely harms Tow-Line's memory banks. Even more confused than before, Tow-Line brings X-Brawn to a power plant and deposits the Autobot into a holding box.

[[File:Tow-Line Goes Haywire Towlinerapidrun.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|Bullet trains do not work that way! Good night!]]
Tow-Line's next victim is Side Burn, who is deposited into the same box. Next, Tow-Line captures [[Rapid Run (RID)|Rapid Run]] and carries the large train through the city to the deposit box. Prowl and [[Koji Onishi|Koji]] see the capture and give chase, but lose their target in rush hour traffic. But at least now the other Autobots know that something is afoot.

Once they meet up, Prowl and [[Optimus Prime (RID)|Prime]] confront Tow-Line in part of a staged intervention to help him deal with his towing addiction. Tow-Line makes it clear that he's gone a bit wonko when he accuses Prime of being the Autobots' "evil mastermind." Sky-Byte and the Predacons arrive to help their "friend", but Prime quickly blasts away the goons. Taking Tow-Line home for diagnostics, Prime notices the disc placed inside of Tow-Line by Dark Scream. With his mind restored, Tow-Line brings the two Autobots to rescue the others he stored at the power plant.

The Autobots find their allies, and Tow-Line apologizes for the kidnapping. [[Megatron (RID)|Megatron]] and all the Predacons show up again, but are defeated almost as quickly as they were earlier. Tow-Line goes back to apologize, and Optimus explains that compassion and understanding are important values to uphold (even if it means arresting Prowl during the epilogue).

==Featured characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
*[[Side Burn (RID)|Side Burn]] (1)
*[[Tow-Line (RID)|Tow-Line]] (2)
*[[Prowl (RID)|Prowl]] (4)
*[[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus Prime]] (5)
*[[T-AI]] (6)
*[[X-Brawn]] (7)
*[[Rapid Run (RID)|Rapid Run]] (13)

|h2=[[Predacon (RID)|Predacons]]
|c2=
*[[Sky-Byte (RID)|Sky-Byte]] (8)
*[[Gas Skunk]] (9)
*[[Slapper (RID)|Slapper]] (10)
*[[Dark Scream]] (11)
*[[Megatron (RID)|Megatron]] (14)

|c3=
*[[Koji Onishi]] (3)
*[[Kelly (RID)|Kelly]] (12)
}}

==Quotes==
"No parking means no parking!"
:—'''Tow-Line''', all the time

"There's nothing I can do. You knew the law, you broke the law, and now the law is towing you away."
:—'''Tow-Line''' to his first <s>victim</s> offender

"Okay, so I'm not allowed to tow away bicycles, wedding cars, ambulances, broken-down buses, funeral escorts, parade floats, campaigning senators or mailmen named [[Moe]]. Is that all?"<br>
"Uh, no mailmen, period. ''(muttered)'' Oh, boy."
:—'''Tow-Line''' gets very detailed instructions from a long-suffering '''Prowl'''.

"First he towed away a couple of kids' bikes, then he completely messed up a honeymoon. It's almost as if he's already working for us."
:—'''Gas Skunk''' doesn't have very high standards for the Predacons.

"Can I have the harbor? I love those little boats."
:—'''Gas Skunk''' doesn't have very high standards for real estate either.

'''Sky-Byte''': If all goes as planned, that fool Tow-Line will bring the Autobots to us. And when he delivers them, they'll be totally helpless.<br>
'''Slapper''': Hey, this is even better than having a pizza delivered!<br>
'''Gas Skunk''': I wonder if we get the guarantee. I want 'em all here in thirty minutes or less.
:— Evidently, robotic toads and smelly skunks like pizza. Oooookay...

==Notes==
===Differences with ''Car Robots''===
*In ''Car Robots'', Side Burn spends the whole opening scene talking to the red sports car on display; ''Robots in Disguise'' has him rattle off its specs to no-one in particular, only attempting to communicate with it towards the end of the scene. His attempt at singing a song is a fun dub addition.
*In ''Car Robots'', the parking code is practically a religion for Tow-Line—he's not just a stickler for the rules like in ''Robots in Disguise'', but also gives florid speeches about how God will never forgive someone who parks improperly!
*''Car Robots'' explains that the "no parking" sticker-thing that Tow-Line clamps on Side Burn prevents him from transforming. ''Robots in Disguise'' doesn't explain what it's for.
*Rather than ask if Tow-Line has been briefed on Battle Protocol as she does in ''Robots in Disguise'', ''Car Robots'' has T-AI simply ask if he knows the other Autobots.
*The truck driver who is Tow-Line's first victim gets some extra off-screen dialogue in ''Robots in Disguise'' setting up his situation before he pokes his head out the window.
*''Robots in Disguise'' has Prowl lay some specific ground rules for Tow-Line in between scenes, which the tow-truck repeats as he hauls the next perpetrator off. In ''Car Robots'', that didn't happen, and Tow-Line makes the tow in silence; Prowl doesn't seem to be too bothered by his over-enthusiastic methods in the Japanese version!
*Gas Skunk deems Tow-Line "heroic" in ''Car Robots'', while ''Robots in Disguise'' has him crack that the trouble he's caused makes the new Autobot already seem to be working for the Predacons.
*CGI POV targeting overlays are added to ''Robots in Disguise'' as the Predacon trio take Tow-Line down.
*As the Predacons watch Tow-Line drive off, ''Car Robots'' has them gloat over their plan and the fact they can take it easy while the Autobot does all the work. In ''Robots in Disguise'', they talk about dividing up the conquered city between them.
*In ''Robots in Disguise'', Tow-Line accuses the Autobots he captures of various generic energy thefts, but in ''Car Robots'', on the other hand, he's been specifically programmed to believe past Predacon plots were the work of the Autobots. As such, he believes X-Brawn was behind the trouble with the [[Linear RFG]] back in "[[Bullet Train to the Rescue]]", and Side Burn was responsible for the attack on the truck carrying the [[Plutonium Energy Generator]] in "[[Spychangers to the Rescue]]".
*His memory scrambled, ''Car Robots'' has Tow-Line try to remember whether he had to take X-Brawn to either a bakery or a police station. To explain why he decides to trap him where he does, ''Robots in Disguise'' changes this to him choosing between the docks and a power plant, opting for the latter.
*In ''Car Robots'', Side Burn briefly believes that rather than ''capture'' him, Tow-Line has brought him to meet with X-Brawn at his elder brother's request.
*When listing off Rapid Run's crimes, ''Car Robots'' has Tow-Line add the damage caused to the building by their sharp cornering, over Rapid Run's spluttering protestations that it was Tow-Line's own fault.
*After being hauled out of their prison pit, the Autobots are quite understanding in ''Robots in Disguise'', having been informed by Optimus of what happened. In ''Car Robots'', they haven't been clued in, and turn on Tow-Line until he offers up the explanation.
*Another CGI overlay is added when Optimus blasts Sky-Byte with his Strafe Attack.
*''Robots in Disguise'' tacks a bit of a strained moral about bending the rules to do the right thing onto the end of the episode; in ''Car Robots'', the scene just consists of Tow-Line continuing to say sorry, and Rapid Run accepting his apology.
*Scenes briefly extended for ''Robots in Disguise'' by looping and repeating footage include:
**Most of the first scene in the impound lot, including Prowl greeting Tow-Line, Side Burn offering up his apologies, Prowl admonishing him, and Prowl congratulating Tow-Line
**Tow-Line preparing to round up three violators at once
**Sky-Byte welcoming the captured Tow-Line
**Tow-Line rounding up Side Burn a second time
**Koji alerting Prowl to Tow-Line's actions
**X-Brawn discussing their situation with Rapid Run
**Optimus giving orders to T-AI
**Darkscream informing Sky-Byte he has found Tow-Line
**Tow-Line preparing to arrest Prowl
**Prowl and Optimus facing down Tow-Line
**Prowl encouraging Optimus to take care of the Predacons
**Prowl being dragged off by Tow-Line, complete with a long rant that fades out as the episode ends

===Animation and technical errors===
*As Rapid Run, X-Brawn, and Side Burn stand on each other's shoulders in the power plant, Rapid Run's torso is colored entirely gray in one shot.
*When Tow-Line prepares to tow away Prowl near the episode's end, the underside of Prowl's raised vehicle mode rear end is colored entirely green like Tow-Line at one point.

===Continuity errors===
*X-Brawn uses his grappling hook to break Tow-Line's right-hand window and strike his dash, but the glass is fixed in the next shot where it appears and remains so for the rest of the episode.

===Real-world references===
*When T-AI locates Tow-Line, she says that he's headed westbound on "[[w:Interstate 275|Interstate 275]]". In reality, there are four different interstate highways with this number: One in Florida, one in Tennessee, one in Michigan, and one that loops through Ohio, Indiana, and Kentucky.

===Trivia===
*Although the Predacon plots that Tow-Line accuses the Autobots of doing are typical of the plots the Predacons usually go through, they don't specifically match foiled schemes that have happened in the series thus far. This implies that the Predacons have been in several off screen adventures that never made it into the episodes. The most shocking thing about these tidbits is that it implies the Predacons have been ''successful'' at stealing energy on multiple occasions. That's pretty embarrassing.
*For no apparent reason, Optimus is seeing parading around the Autobot base in his Super/Battle Mode, but when he actually does get into a fight, he chooses to fight it in his standard robot mode.
*This is the second time Optimus has been seen walking the base in his robot mode. (The first being in the episode "[Mirage's_Betrayal]") Reason? Sell more toys.

==Home video releases==
{{homevidnote}}
;DVD
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 2000 — ''Transformers: Car Robots'' — Vol. 3 ([[Pony Canyon]]) — Japanese audio only.<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2004 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Three-Disc Box Set: Part 1 of 2 ([[Maximum Entertainment]])<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2007 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Season One (Maximum Entertainment)<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2007 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Ultimate Collection (Maximum Entertainment)

==External links==
*[http://www.ridforever.info/episode-transcripts/rid-episode-11-tow-line-goes-haywire Tow-Line Goes Haywire transcript on RiDForever.info]

[[Category:Robots in Disguise (2001) episodes]]

Tow-Line Goes Haywire

2016-10-28T06:58:52Z

Furhun: /* Trivia */

{{episode|
|series=RiD
|ep=11
|title="Tow-Line Goes Haywire"
|japanese=駐車違反だ! レッカーフック
|romanji=Chūshaihan da! Wrecker Hook
|translation=Parking Violation! Wrecker Hook
|image=Tow-Line Goes Haywire Side burn.jpg
|caption=Usually Side Burn has to pay for this sort of treatment
|production code=
|production company=[[TV Tokyo]], [[Nihon Ad Systems|NAS]], [[Studio Gallop]]
|airdate=[[June 14]], [[2000]] (Japanese)<br>[[September 20]], [[2001]] (English)
|written by=[[Yukiyoshi Ōhashi]] (Japanese)<br>[[Matthew V. Lewis]] (English)
|director=[[Akira Katō]]
|animation studio=Studio Gallop
|continuity=
}}

'''Tow-Line has one rule''':<br>
'''No Parking Means No Parking'''<br>
'''Even for his friends.'''

==Synopsis==
[[File:Tow-Line Goes Haywire Towlineprowl.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|This is such a drag.]]
[[Side Burn (RID)|Side Burn]], up to his usual antics, tries to seduce a red sports car, but his attempts to woo are arrested by [[Tow-Line (RID)|Tow-Line]], who punishes the [[Autobot]] for parking in a No Parking Zone. The tow-truck drags Side Burn to [[Prowl (RID)|Prowl]], who introduces the truck as the newest Autobot soldier. Inside the Autobot base, Prowl inducts Tow-Line into the police's traffic patrol. (Illegal parking is apparently a high priority for the Autobots.)

Tow-Line starts working immediately, and takes his job with extreme dedication. Eventually, Tow-Line's mania goes out of control, and he begins to impound misplaced tricycles and wedding vehicles. After Prowl explains the limits of Tow-Line's jurisdiction, [[Sky-Byte (RID)|Sky-Byte]] and [[Gas Skunk]] notice the new Autobot and begin a sinister plot.

[[File:Tow-Line Goes Haywire Slappermetronome.jpg|right|upright=1.1|thumb|They're digging in the wrong place!]]
The [[Predacon (RID)|Predacon]] trio wait inside of a mis-parked truck, and when Tow Line inevitably comes to tow the truck away, the three Predacons ambush the rookie. They bring Tow-Line to Sky-Byte and begin the process of brainwashing the truck into a loyal Predacon. [[Slapper (RID)|Slapper]] tries to hypnotize Tow-Line using a dangling pendant, but only succeeds in putting himself to sleep. [[Gas Skunk]] explains they should try using a metronome (again, failing). Eventually, [[Dark Scream]] loads a brainwashing program into the captive via disc drive. Tow-Line, unbalanced, is released to enforce his own rules on the Autobots.

A misguided Tow-Line first steals a bewildered [[X-Brawn]] away from an indignant [[Kelly (RID)|Kelly]]. On the road, X-Brawn uses his own grappling apparatus to try to stop Tow-Line's deluded quest, but merely harms Tow-Line's memory banks. Even more confused than before, Tow-Line brings X-Brawn to a power plant and deposits the Autobot into a holding box.

[[File:Tow-Line Goes Haywire Towlinerapidrun.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|Bullet trains do not work that way! Good night!]]
Tow-Line's next victim is Side Burn, who is deposited into the same box. Next, Tow-Line captures [[Rapid Run (RID)|Rapid Run]] and carries the large train through the city to the deposit box. Prowl and [[Koji Onishi|Koji]] see the capture and give chase, but lose their target in rush hour traffic. But at least now the other Autobots know that something is afoot.

Once they meet up, Prowl and [[Optimus Prime (RID)|Prime]] confront Tow-Line in part of a staged intervention to help him deal with his towing addiction. Tow-Line makes it clear that he's gone a bit wonko when he accuses Prime of being the Autobots' "evil mastermind." Sky-Byte and the Predacons arrive to help their "friend", but Prime quickly blasts away the goons. Taking Tow-Line home for diagnostics, Prime notices the disc placed inside of Tow-Line by Dark Scream. With his mind restored, Tow-Line brings the two Autobots to rescue the others he stored at the power plant.

The Autobots find their allies, and Tow-Line apologizes for the kidnapping. [[Megatron (RID)|Megatron]] and all the Predacons show up again, but are defeated almost as quickly as they were earlier. Tow-Line goes back to apologize, and Optimus explains that compassion and understanding are important values to uphold (even if it means arresting Prowl during the epilogue).

==Featured characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
*[[Side Burn (RID)|Side Burn]] (1)
*[[Tow-Line (RID)|Tow-Line]] (2)
*[[Prowl (RID)|Prowl]] (4)
*[[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus Prime]] (5)
*[[T-AI]] (6)
*[[X-Brawn]] (7)
*[[Rapid Run (RID)|Rapid Run]] (13)

|h2=[[Predacon (RID)|Predacons]]
|c2=
*[[Sky-Byte (RID)|Sky-Byte]] (8)
*[[Gas Skunk]] (9)
*[[Slapper (RID)|Slapper]] (10)
*[[Dark Scream]] (11)
*[[Megatron (RID)|Megatron]] (14)

|c3=
*[[Koji Onishi]] (3)
*[[Kelly (RID)|Kelly]] (12)
}}

==Quotes==
"No parking means no parking!"
:—'''Tow-Line''', all the time

"There's nothing I can do. You knew the law, you broke the law, and now the law is towing you away."
:—'''Tow-Line''' to his first <s>victim</s> offender

"Okay, so I'm not allowed to tow away bicycles, wedding cars, ambulances, broken-down buses, funeral escorts, parade floats, campaigning senators or mailmen named [[Moe]]. Is that all?"<br>
"Uh, no mailmen, period. ''(muttered)'' Oh, boy."
:—'''Tow-Line''' gets very detailed instructions from a long-suffering '''Prowl'''.

"First he towed away a couple of kids' bikes, then he completely messed up a honeymoon. It's almost as if he's already working for us."
:—'''Gas Skunk''' doesn't have very high standards for the Predacons.

"Can I have the harbor? I love those little boats."
:—'''Gas Skunk''' doesn't have very high standards for real estate either.

'''Sky-Byte''': If all goes as planned, that fool Tow-Line will bring the Autobots to us. And when he delivers them, they'll be totally helpless.<br>
'''Slapper''': Hey, this is even better than having a pizza delivered!<br>
'''Gas Skunk''': I wonder if we get the guarantee. I want 'em all here in thirty minutes or less.
:— Evidently, robotic toads and smelly skunks like pizza. Oooookay...

==Notes==
===Differences with ''Car Robots''===
*In ''Car Robots'', Side Burn spends the whole opening scene talking to the red sports car on display; ''Robots in Disguise'' has him rattle off its specs to no-one in particular, only attempting to communicate with it towards the end of the scene. His attempt at singing a song is a fun dub addition.
*In ''Car Robots'', the parking code is practically a religion for Tow-Line—he's not just a stickler for the rules like in ''Robots in Disguise'', but also gives florid speeches about how God will never forgive someone who parks improperly!
*''Car Robots'' explains that the "no parking" sticker-thing that Tow-Line clamps on Side Burn prevents him from transforming. ''Robots in Disguise'' doesn't explain what it's for.
*Rather than ask if Tow-Line has been briefed on Battle Protocol as she does in ''Robots in Disguise'', ''Car Robots'' has T-AI simply ask if he knows the other Autobots.
*The truck driver who is Tow-Line's first victim gets some extra off-screen dialogue in ''Robots in Disguise'' setting up his situation before he pokes his head out the window.
*''Robots in Disguise'' has Prowl lay some specific ground rules for Tow-Line in between scenes, which the tow-truck repeats as he hauls the next perpetrator off. In ''Car Robots'', that didn't happen, and Tow-Line makes the tow in silence; Prowl doesn't seem to be too bothered by his over-enthusiastic methods in the Japanese version!
*Gas Skunk deems Tow-Line "heroic" in ''Car Robots'', while ''Robots in Disguise'' has him crack that the trouble he's caused makes the new Autobot already seem to be working for the Predacons.
*CGI POV targeting overlays are added to ''Robots in Disguise'' as the Predacon trio take Tow-Line down.
*As the Predacons watch Tow-Line drive off, ''Car Robots'' has them gloat over their plan and the fact they can take it easy while the Autobot does all the work. In ''Robots in Disguise'', they talk about dividing up the conquered city between them.
*In ''Robots in Disguise'', Tow-Line accuses the Autobots he captures of various generic energy thefts, but in ''Car Robots'', on the other hand, he's been specifically programmed to believe past Predacon plots were the work of the Autobots. As such, he believes X-Brawn was behind the trouble with the [[Linear RFG]] back in "[[Bullet Train to the Rescue]]", and Side Burn was responsible for the attack on the truck carrying the [[Plutonium Energy Generator]] in "[[Spychangers to the Rescue]]".
*His memory scrambled, ''Car Robots'' has Tow-Line try to remember whether he had to take X-Brawn to either a bakery or a police station. To explain why he decides to trap him where he does, ''Robots in Disguise'' changes this to him choosing between the docks and a power plant, opting for the latter.
*In ''Car Robots'', Side Burn briefly believes that rather than ''capture'' him, Tow-Line has brought him to meet with X-Brawn at his elder brother's request.
*When listing off Rapid Run's crimes, ''Car Robots'' has Tow-Line add the damage caused to the building by their sharp cornering, over Rapid Run's spluttering protestations that it was Tow-Line's own fault.
*After being hauled out of their prison pit, the Autobots are quite understanding in ''Robots in Disguise'', having been informed by Optimus of what happened. In ''Car Robots'', they haven't been clued in, and turn on Tow-Line until he offers up the explanation.
*Another CGI overlay is added when Optimus blasts Sky-Byte with his Strafe Attack.
*''Robots in Disguise'' tacks a bit of a strained moral about bending the rules to do the right thing onto the end of the episode; in ''Car Robots'', the scene just consists of Tow-Line continuing to say sorry, and Rapid Run accepting his apology.
*Scenes briefly extended for ''Robots in Disguise'' by looping and repeating footage include:
**Most of the first scene in the impound lot, including Prowl greeting Tow-Line, Side Burn offering up his apologies, Prowl admonishing him, and Prowl congratulating Tow-Line
**Tow-Line preparing to round up three violators at once
**Sky-Byte welcoming the captured Tow-Line
**Tow-Line rounding up Side Burn a second time
**Koji alerting Prowl to Tow-Line's actions
**X-Brawn discussing their situation with Rapid Run
**Optimus giving orders to T-AI
**Darkscream informing Sky-Byte he has found Tow-Line
**Tow-Line preparing to arrest Prowl
**Prowl and Optimus facing down Tow-Line
**Prowl encouraging Optimus to take care of the Predacons
**Prowl being dragged off by Tow-Line, complete with a long rant that fades out as the episode ends

===Animation and technical errors===
*As Rapid Run, X-Brawn, and Side Burn stand on each other's shoulders in the power plant, Rapid Run's torso is colored entirely gray in one shot.
*When Tow-Line prepares to tow away Prowl near the episode's end, the underside of Prowl's raised vehicle mode rear end is colored entirely green like Tow-Line at one point.

===Continuity errors===
*X-Brawn uses his grappling hook to break Tow-Line's right-hand window and strike his dash, but the glass is fixed in the next shot where it appears and remains so for the rest of the episode.

===Real-world references===
*When T-AI locates Tow-Line, she says that he's headed westbound on "[[w:Interstate 275|Interstate 275]]". In reality, there are four different interstate highways with this number: One in Florida, one in Tennessee, one in Michigan, and one that loops through Ohio, Indiana, and Kentucky.

===Trivia===
*Although the Predacon plots that Tow-Line accuses the Autobots of doing are typical of the plots the Predacons usually go through, they don't specifically match foiled schemes that have happened in the series thus far. This implies that the Predacons have been in several off screen adventures that never made it into the episodes. The most shocking thing about these tidbits is that it implies the Predacons have been ''successful'' at stealing energy on multiple occasions. That's pretty embarrassing.
*For no apparent reason, Optimus is seeing parading around the Autobot base in his Super/Battle Mode, but when he actually does get into a fight, he chooses to fight it in his standard robot mode.
*This is the second time Optimus has been seen walking the base in his robot mode. (The first being in the episode "[tfwiki.net/wiki/Mirage's_Betrayal Mirage's Betrayal.]") Reason? Sell more toys.

==Home video releases==
{{homevidnote}}
;DVD
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 2000 — ''Transformers: Car Robots'' — Vol. 3 ([[Pony Canyon]]) — Japanese audio only.<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2004 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Three-Disc Box Set: Part 1 of 2 ([[Maximum Entertainment]])<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2007 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Season One (Maximum Entertainment)<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2007 — ''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' — Ultimate Collection (Maximum Entertainment)

==External links==
*[http://www.ridforever.info/episode-transcripts/rid-episode-11-tow-line-goes-haywire Tow-Line Goes Haywire transcript on RiDForever.info]

[[Category:Robots in Disguise (2001) episodes]]

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2016-10-24T23:37:19Z

Furhun: /* A proposal for reducing clutter */

__NEWSECTIONLINK__

This is the place for discussion of topics that affect the entire wiki. Some topics that would ordinarily be here have merited their own pages:

{{chapters|title=Specific Discussion Subjects|align=left|content=
<div class="list-header">'''Moving From Wikia:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving|Arriving]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving|Leaving]]
* [[Transformers Wiki:Community Portal/Complaints|Complaints]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''New Ad Policy:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki:Ads|Ads]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Bookworm Database-Crash:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central|Damage Control Central]]
* [[Project:Bookworm Crash]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving2|Leaving Take 2]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Server Move:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving2|Arriving Take 2]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Relicensing:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Relicensing|Relicensing]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Dealing With Vandalism:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Vandalism|Vandalism]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''GoBots Sister Wiki:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/GoBots|Discussion on the place of GoBots in this wiki]]
<br/> <div class="list-header">'''Wiki Technical Information:'''</div>
* [[Transformers_Wiki:Tech|A Not So Brief Summary of the Horrible Things That McFly and Co. Have Done To Keep This Wiki From Melting Down]]
}}<br/>

{{:{{FULLPAGENAMEE}}/Archive}}


== IDW Revolution ==

So the preview for ''Rom'' #1 shows the EDC in it and we can probably expect more of this sort of thing. This could be a problem for recording stuff, since the EDC is a Transformers concept but if it becomes a ''Rom'' one too, we technically need to put a lot of Rom storylinks here.

So should we do a rule that it has to be ''specifically'' a Transformer appearing to get covered, and otherwise we'll put it in Notes ("the EDC also shoot Rom!!")? --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 17:17, 7 June 2016 (GMT)

:I think the closest thing we have to an existing standard is [[Unfoldings!|G.I. Joe #138]], a comic that is not an identified crossover with Transformers and contains the most minor of guest-appearances inside. The full issue is summarized on this site, and details of that issue appear in the fiction section of every character, even ones like [[Wild Bill]] who had no contact with Transformers whatsoever for the story.

:Beyond that "standard", though, you're right that we will need to establish a rule for when Hasbro/IDW Universe stories are covered. Only when Transformers appear in the issue? Transformers characters? Transformers concepts? If Blackrock appears in MASK #3, do we cover that issue based on that alone? What if there's also a one-panel flashback of Blackrock with Galvatron? Do we cover it then? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 12:50, 7 June 2016 (EDT)

::My two cents. If it's not a piece of Transformers fiction, it generally only gets mentioned in the notes, even if a nominally-TF character appears. Major characters (you can decide who fits) can tip the scales, and situations like GI Joe #138 get included because that issue is essential to understanding issue #139 (where the crossover is first explicitly mentioned, but where the action is already well in play as the issue opens, and #138 is necessary to understand how we got there. Note also that a major TF character appears in #138, if only briefly). These general guidelines should be able to suffice for the most part. --[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] ([[User talk:G.B. Blackrock|talk]]) 13:32, 7 June 2016 (EDT)

:::Disagree on #138. It's completely unnecessary for understanding #139 ("Megatron is attacking the castle!" is pretty clearly conveyed by the splash page), and it actually ''confuses'' the situation, since the shadowy conversation in #138 is ignored or outright contradicted later in the story.

:::But regardless, that brings us back around to "What's a major character?" Only Transformers? Pre-IDW humans like Fairborne, Spike, and Blackrock as well? Jimmy Pink and Jones? What if Battle Force 2000 encounters the Enigma of Combination? What if MASK travels to Cybertron, but no identifiable Transformers appear? I realize a lot of these questions can't be answered until it happens, but some idea where everyone sits on the matter should be established ahead of time, if we can. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 13:46, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::If it's not an explicit and branded crossover we should have minimal coverage. If an actual Transformer shows up in another book, we cover his appearance but that's it. 138 is probably covered in too much detail already. Transformers concepts and settings and human companions appearing in other books are notes. --[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 14:15, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::I think if a Transformer or other Clearly A Transformers-Franchise Character like Blackrock, Marissa, Spike, etc. shows up in another title's issue, than that issue should get fully covered as a crossover regardless of "branding." A TF-originated ''concept'', however, like the EDC, putting in an appearance probably doesn't need to be more than a note somewhere. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 14:49, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::No. We don't cover every Marvel Comics issue Death's Head's shown up in following his departure from the TF universe. And before you "WELL ACTUALLY" me, he's only not a Fully Legal Transformers Character on the most petty of technicalities. He was made to be a Transformers character and given a legal out to be used elsewhere without paying Hasbro.<br>
::::::AT MOST, non-Transformers books should be lumped together in a fiction section on the franchise in question's page. Personally I have grave doubts as to just how much character bleed there actually will be, as well as how long any of these titles are even going to ''last''. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 15:03, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::WELL ACTUALLY another difference there is that, like you said, Death's Head ''departed'' the TF universe. He was taken away from the TF franchise and given to Marvel-at-large. This has not happened with say, Marissa Fairborn, who is still a Transformers character. Her "home title" is still The Transformers. A hypothetical Marissa Fairborn guest appearance in an issue of M.A.S.K. is, IMO, just as much of a TF crossover as an appearance of, say, Cosmos or Soundwave would be. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 15:22, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::::Which should still be relegated to a singular fiction section on the not-Transformers franchise page. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 15:41, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::But the fact that that legal out was ''created'' would, I think, make him a Marvel-by-way-of-Transformers character. He may have been ''created'' for Transformers, but he was also created to be ''used'' outside Transformers. Plus, uh, what Kil said.
:::::::My proposal: only issues with Transformers in get their own pages; any other appearances of TF characters and concepts go on a single page for the whole franchise/comic. Doesn't leave anything out, but also doesn't overstep the wiki's bounds. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 15:44, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::::Death's Head's legal reality is exactly why he's in those non-Transformers stories in the first place; I don't think he's a good example. I think sticking to things that cannot exist out of a ''Transformers'' context (i.e. the Enigma of Combination, Optimus Prime, etc.) is a okay baseline. The EDC can always serve as a generic "defense against aggressive aliens" organization independent of Transformers, but things like the Matrix can't. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:56, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::Transformers get full writeups and bestow full writeup coverage on the issues in which they appear. TF-originating non-TF characters and concepts (Spike, EDC, the Enigma, cosmic rust) get very brief mentions within the main bodies of their articles, in proper chronological order in the IDW Fiction sections, with storylinks properly annotated; these storylinks would be redirected to the main non-TF-franchise comic page. IE "storylink|ROM #6" just goes to the ROM comic. ROM (character) does not have any of his own adventures chronicled ever except when he's doing it right next to a Transformer, regardless of title. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 19:11, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::"Transformers get full writeups and bestow full writeup coverage on the issues in which they appear." No. A one-panel cameo does not mean we write up the entire issue as its own article. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 19:34, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::We've got full pages for the non-Transformers Infestation comics and Unit:E, just putting that out there. It's not like covering issues in which Transformers appear is going to lead to people insisting we cover the entirety of okay actually I may be giving the average wiki user too much credit --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 19:46, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::::I'd much rather just lose the full page coverage for Unit E and non-TF Infestation than start giving it to all these new comics. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep|talk]]) 19:49, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::BINGO. It's not before anymore. We live in a very different world than when a lot of this wiki's "standards" were crafted. What worked when TFs was a healthy-yet-niche franchise, perhaps not so much now that it's being used as a tentpole for a lot of other things. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 20:27, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::Disagreed, I guess. I feel like if it's a book by a Hasbro licensee using their Transformers license to use Transformers in the story, it doesn't particularly matter what the name on the book is. Sure, if it's, like, a 1-panel flashback or something we wouldn't even mention otherwise, we can leave it out, but if they have a bigger role, it shouldn't need "The Transformers" on the cover to get a writeup. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:23, 8 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::I'm down with "Transformers get full writeups and bestow full writeup coverage on the issues in which they appear", with the caveat of "except when it's a minor cameo" (i.e. not Megatron showing up in Joe #138 as he's the cliffhanger but like how Nick Fury's making a cameo in TF #3 to go "look this guy's paying attention). Anything else goes in Notes unless & until it explicitly impacts on a Transformers comic, i.e. crossover stories. --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]} 04:05, 8 June 2016 GMT
::::::: Hum, so... Not a total coverage, got it. But some Locations have had their own articles just because they were in the Hasbro 'verse. All that Star Wars stuff for example is mostly unrelated. If there is such a thing like an official Hasbro 'verse... shouldn't we start to list planets from other continuities? Or does that also fall under the category of "only if a Transformer / EDC member ever puts his feet /wheels on it"? Other more precise locations may clearly not fit in here, but planets? I feel as if the Planets and stars existing in IDW's Rom are are much more observable from Earth or Cybertron than some other stuff we already have. Anyway, I'm just asking before I begin to do any unnecessary work.[[User:Xunk16|Xunk16]] ([[User talk:Xunk16|talk]]) 02:19, 23 September 2016 (EDT)
::::::::If it appears in an issue that we're covering (i.e. an issue with Transformers in), then it can get an article. If it doesn't, it doesn't. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 04:23, 23 September 2016 (EDT)

==Gobots Sister Wiki Progress==
Has anyone ever made any progress on the Gobots sister wiki? I have no experience in creating wikis, but would love to see this get made. -[[User:Halfshell25|Halfshell25]] ([[User talk:Halfshell25|talk]]) 19:21, 22 June 2016 (EDT)

== "Foreign Names" ==
The original Mandarin names of the Chinese MMO characters are not their "foreign names" and it is factually inaccurate to label them as such. The AVP replacement names are actually the "foreign" ones. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 08:45, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:Wouldn't the same objection apply to [[Ricochet (Headmasters)]] and the entirety of the Unicron Trilogy's characters? Perhaps a change to the title of the section would be appropriate, but I just read the heading as "names in a language other than English". --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 09:16, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::UT characters are in a much different position, since they were developed with both the English-speaking audience and the Japanese audience in mind, they weren't created for Japan and then imported elsewhere. I would also note that "Foreign names" isn't used to mean "names in a language other than English" on the Beastformers' articles, which list their English names under that header. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 09:56, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::What kind of a change would you suggest? Is it a matter of semantics, like we could change the headers to "International names"? Personally, I never thought the "Foreign names" header intimated something suggesting that the names were "secondary", just that we use English language names where appropriate and list the international/foreign ones at the bottom where appropriate. I don't think country of origin ever really factored into it. And we use the Foreign names section even when characters have the same names across languages, but render them in that language's alphabet for ease of reference (admittedly, we've been rather sloppy about that, particularly the similar Foreign localization sections of episodes where sometimes we list a language's info and sometimes we don't). While we could definitely stand to be more complete/precise across the board, I think altering the section titles based on country of origin would only confuse things for casual browsers. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 10:28, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::Honestly the main thing I wanna suggest is un-reverting the changes to the MMO characters back to "Original Mandarin Name" in place of "Foreign name" as that just more accurate, IMO. I also think that if the intent of the wiki is that "Foreign names" be read as "non-English names" then maybe "English" shouldn't actually appear under that header, as it does for Beastformers and Omni Producion dubs. And if "Foreign names" is actually supposed to mean "Names given to character in foreign markets" then should the name given in their ''original'' market actually be under there? Should a character's original name ever be labelled "foreign"? My gut instinct is to say "no" to that. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 11:16, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::They are foreign to our main readership, which is primarily Americans. That's what it means, regardless of whether the character is a foreign creation. We've had examples like [[Ricochet (Headmasters)|Ricochet/Stepper]], [[Snowblind|Snowblind/Beacon]], and [[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus Prime/Fire Convoy]] for years. Why is this any different? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 12:04, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::I don't know! Maybe it isn't! Maybe all characters should always have their original name listed as such instead of just being under the "Foreign names" header! Maybe they shouldn't! Maybe! --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:16, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::Foreign is always understood as being in relation to the speaker. As this wiki is English speaking, all non-English names are foreign, even if they are the original names for those characters. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:11, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::::Again, if "all non-English name are foreign" then maaaaaaaaybe the word "English" shouldn't be appearing beneath the "Foreign names" header on any articles? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:19, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::::That's a more valid point, though it is mainly used for the Omni Productions dub which is pretty foreign to anything close to English...or good.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:23, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::As we currently have it set up for English/Omni names, it looks like this:

*''English:'' '''Billy''' ([[Omni Productions]] dub), '''Blaster''' ([[Omni Productions]] dub Twincast)

While it seems pretty clear by having the Omni Productions note in parenthesis by the names, maybe it would look better like this?

*''English ([[Omni Productions]] dub):'' '''Billy''' (as Blaster), '''Blaster''' (as Twincast)

Is that better or worse or not even worth the effort? Personally, I don't have a dog in this race; I kinda think things are okay as-is. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 12:35, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:I was walking about the presence of "English" beneath a "Foreign names" header at all if the intended meaning of "Foreign names" is "non-English." So this isn't really addressing that? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:45, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::There isn't really any other good place for these names to go. Unless you want to elevate them to the level of legitimate English variants (like Hot Rod vs Rodimus Prime or Bluestreak vs Silverstreak). I would find it a lot more disturbing to see "Also known as Billy" in Blaster's intro. Oh, and I agree with Speng's new version of the listing. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:57, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::Okay, but then, what else could we call it? How else could we catalog that info? Should we put the Omni names at the top of the article alongside the "Sometimes he is known as..." notation at the bottom of the intro? I dunno if anybody would like that. I get what you're saying about having "English" under Foreign names when we default to English as a standard, but I'm not sure of a better way to catalog their Omni names aside from how we have it (English with Omni in parenthesis) (EDIT: Ah, Khajida beat me to the punch by 2 minutes). --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 12:59, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::I mean, I suppose just listing "Omni Productions Dub" without the word English next to it would read better? Or listing it's country of origin instead of language, rendering the meaning on "Foreign" as "non-American" rather than "non-English?" --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 13:05, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::The Omni dubs are a very strange situation, though, and probably not something we need to build a whole policy around. Surely if we have a working system in place that reads a little strange in this one case we don't need to revamp everything. We can make some kind of reasonable exception just for Omni and call it a day.--[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 13:39, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::Right. I think we're digressing from Kil's original complaint. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:38, 14 July 2016 (EDT)

== Striking Unit:E from the record ==

As someone who has been adding a bunch of pages for the newly introduced Hasbro properties that are part of IDW's Revolution, I think we're hitting a bit of a snag: Unit:E.
Unit:E was supposed to spin-out of Prime, which would put it in the Aligned continuity, while all the Revolution stuff is based in G1 continuity. As such, including info on both IDW Action Man and Unit:E Action Man on the same page doesn't make sense (especially when that page was built solely with IDW in mind.) However, this is a Transformers Wiki, and I don't think we need Action Man (IDW) and Action Man (Unit:E)
This kind of thing WILL spiral out of control, and will only get worse with things like G.I. Joe characters (who are all G1 based) and Micronauts (because Acroyear is so different between the two incarnations.)
As such, I propose that we set a precedent to excise ANY Unit:E-based material, with the exception of how it directly relates to the Transformers. Meaning the page on the actual group mentioned in Prime and the comic itself would stay, but unless Transformers were involved, the events aren't referenced. [[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 19:57 15 July 2016 (EST)
:Or we could just leave them on the same pages like we already are now. Don't overcomplicate things. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 20:27, 15 July 2016 (EDT)
::The way we handle non-Transformers original characters is to keep all appearances together on the same page. So, if Destro shows up in Animated, and again in G1, we don't make two articles. No need for an Action Man (Aligned) and an Action Man (G1) under this scheme. Having them on the same page is a simple and elegant solution. --[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 20:39, 15 July 2016 (EDT)
:::My issue with Unit:E is that none of the characters actually interact, and the multiversal nature of the story means that the Action Man featured there may not even have Transformers in his own universe, meaning his adventures would fall into the Megaverse, and thus outside this wiki's domain. The Unit:E information is therefore superfluous. Unit:E is also not a Transformers-branded piece of media. Notice we don't record the G.I. Joe events of Infestation. --[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 20:53 15 July 2015 (EST)
::::Because those issues do not have Transformers in them. Unit:E does, and I'm seriously having a hard time seeing the harm in detailing an one-shot issue that didn't amount to anything and that nobody else will cover. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 22:57, 15 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::The Unit:E stuff is G1 already though. Arcee, Jazz, Optimus Prime and Bumblebee are all seen as distinctly G1 incarnations of those characters. There isn't even a need to consider the fact that one spin-off is G1 and another is Aligned since that's not the case. --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron|talk]]) 00:40, 16 July 2016 (EDT)

== Aligned characters ==

[http://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/101932-tfwikinet-thread-30/page-247 As brought up here on the Allspark], is there any momentum to split the RiD2015 incarnations of characters such as [[Grimlock (WFC)]], [[Sideswipe (WFC)]], and [[Kickback (FOC)]]? A highly broken concept as it is, the Aligned continuity family does roughly fit together as one timeline. As the three aforementioned RiD characters quite obviously do not share the looks and personalities of the WfC/FoC characters, I, for one, do not see how to reconcile them as the WfC/FoC characters at a new stage of their lives. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 01:57, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
:Yeah, I've come around to the idea that they just don't have that much in common between names and altmodes (or, er, robot modes). I vote to split. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 04:52, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
::For the reasons I've laid out on the AllSpark and on Sideswipe (WFC)'s talk page, I also think they should be split. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 07:24, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
:::I also vote split. And just because I think this is a really useful way to conceptualize things, I want to repeat my formulation from the AllSpark thread:
::::''Let me present this little thought experiment. Let's say that the RID 15 guy was named "Trapjaw", an early name for Grimlock. Maybe for copyright reasons, maybe for creative reasons, we don't know specifically. Would we still be inclined to keep the pages merged? This is an issue that has been a part of the Transformers brand since 1984 (see: Jetfire and Skyfire, who do indeed share a page). Shockblasts comfortably share pages with Shockwaves, Silverstreaks with Bluestreaks, Jazzs with Meisters. Likewise, characters since G1 have shared names and yet not been the same characters: Sky High is the earliest example. In this case, take away the name, and is there any reason to keep them merged? If your answer to this question is no, then you should probably be in favor of a split. ''
:::I think this is an abstract enough test to be useful in a variety of cases where there is name reuse but little else. I've tested it against various counterexamples and (BW vs G1 Megatron, Octane and Tankor, various Unicron Trilogy Mini-Con nameslaps, toon vs comic Blaster) and it always seems to produce the 'correct' answer. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 09:52, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
::::This test is a fantastic measure and one I wholly advocate, but I'll note that this metric places ROTF and AOE Lockdown's merger on relatively shaky footing. Whether that's a good or bad thing is uncertain, but I'd say it's worth it to make sure these RID articles are split. [[User:Sky Shadow|Sky Shadow]] ([[User talk:Sky Shadow|talk]]) 08:29, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
[http://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/101932-tfwikinet-thread-30/?p=3302429 Spectre makes a good point here] about the distinctiveness of Grimlock and Sideswipe. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 21:26, 4 August 2016 (EDT)

So...absent any complaints or counter-arguments in the next 24 hours, I say we go ahead and begin splitting these three characters. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 10:38, 5 August 2016 (EDT)
:As much as my vote matters, I agree with splitting them. [[User:Stealthyboy|Stealthyboy]] ([[User talk:Stealthyboy|talk]]) 13:04, 5 August 2016 (EDT)

So far what I'm getting from the Allspark thread is that it's highly subjective whether anyone thinks FOC Grimlock and RID Grimlock should share a page because they're both based on G1 Grimlock, or whether the differences between the two characters are enough that they should get separate pages. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 19:37, 5 August 2016 (EDT)
: Really? I got the sense that there was one guy that really thought they should be together, several people that really thought they should be separate, and a few people who seemed on the fence. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 23:19, 5 August 2016 (EDT)
:: '''Keep''' them merged. Any argument for splitting them is either arbitrary and could be applied to numerous other characters ([[Brawl (Movie)]], [[Vortex (Movie)]], [[Sideswipe (Movie)]], [[Swerve (Movie)]], [[Hound (Movie)]] and [[Lockdown (ROTF)]], to name a few), or based on [[authorial intent]].--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 09:02, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
::: None of those guys have the same problem of irreconcilable fiction and lots of it, and none of them right now have new material coming up on a regular basis. (The only big issue there is Brawl because Titan went "oh uh it's twins" and in practice that's been easy to skim over) --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 14:52, 6 August 2016 (GMT)
::::Yeah, if we'd got any significant fiction for Movie 1 Hound or ROTF Lockdown, I'd argue that they should be split. Hell, I'm still not convinced that the Lockdowns should share a page, but I'm flexible on that. Most of the ones you've brought up, I would think should share a page only because they ''both'' are based on the same vague concept ''and'' don't have large amounts of fiction in contradictory incarnations. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 11:49, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
:::::I would be up for splitting Brawl, Vortex, Sideswipe, etc though I think it would be unnecessary give how little material their non-screen versions received. But we already have [[Jetfire (Movie)]] and [[Jetfire (ROTF)]] split despite the former having no fiction whatsoever. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 12:49, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
::::::I think, fundamentally, what it comes down to me is: ''will splitting help casual fans to understand better/stop them being confused?'' In the case of RID Grimlock, Sideswipe, and probably Kickback, I think that yes, it would. With Movie Hound and Sideswipe and Vortex, there's very little understanding that would be improved by doing so, and would likely just confuse fans searching for "movie Hound", etc. In the case of the Lockdowns, they're arguably the same character by virtue of Q-Transformers, though that's obviously kinda shaky. (And splitting Brawl would be the most unnecessary pedantry in the whole world, damn.) --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 15:14, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

:: I'd vote to keep them merged, with the stipulation that we add a note of some kind explaining the discrepancy. [[User:Grum|Grum]] ([[User talk:Grum|talk]]) 09:02, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

::Split. They're wildly different characters with no visual similarity and aren't based on the same toy (WFC Grimlock not even originally from a toy!) and it means anyone browsing to look up RID Grimlock, the one they most likely will be, atm has to get through a lot of different Grimlock. --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 14:46, 6 August 2016 (GMT)

A lot of what I'm hearing from the "Keep them merged" crowd is that they don't think some of the reasons for splitting are good reasons. Let me flip it around for a minute -- can anyone think of a ''benefit'' to keeping these characters merged? Besides a slippery-slope argument that it may, someday in the future, be used to justify other splits? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 10:03, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

Split. They're very different characters. And there's no conflict between Hasbro statements and author intent here; the most relevant Hasbro statement is the one that would indicate that FoC and RiD do take place in the same timeline, in which case there can be no "different interpretation of the same characters" between them; characters who cannot be the actual same individual at different times in the same timeline therefore must be different ones with the same name. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 15:02, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

Can I vote that there should be no blanket policy here, to just evaluate on a case-by-case basis? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 16:33, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
: Absolutely, and seconded. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 16:45, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

So I count '''Split: 10''' (Xaaron, SHIELD Agent 47, Charles RB, Jim S, Riptide, Sky Shadow, Stealthyboy, NovaSaber, abates, Sabrblade), '''Keep: 2''' (Nevermore, Grum), with no guiding hand from Admin/Owners. Can we go ahead with splitting these three characters, with the understanding that no larger administrative policy is being established, and future cases should still be evaluated on an individual basis? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 10:42, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
:I mentioned it on the Allspark, but I don't have any particularly strong preference so long it's applied consistently for all the applicable Aligned characters, and not just Grimlock. I do kind of question the sense in still treating Aligned like it's still a single timeline under Squint Test rules, since it seems reasonably certain, between RID Grimlock's existence and the departure of Hasbro folks like Archer, that that concept has been thrown out the window. But I also feel like splitting these characters has benefits in terms of accessibility for the casual user, and I guess that's why I'm not going to vote against – I think I probably would if it felt entirely like meaningless "furniture rearrangement" (as Sipher puts it). I think it's worth putting out one final call for people to 'vote' on the Allspark thread before going ahead with the split. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 11:19, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
::Also, as a postscript: if the splits do go ahead, links will need updating pretty hasty-like, or else there'll be a hell of a lot of potential for confusion. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 11:26, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
:::Relinked episodes 1-12 and the main RID series page so far. Moving on to the non-show relinks now. --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 02:00, 8 August 2016 (GMT)
::::Every image and linked-to non-TV-story on Grim's page has been relinked, plus the RID toyline page. Just the rest of the eps and other character's pages to go--[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 02:30, 8 August 2016 (GMT)
:::::Eps and main Autobots relinked--[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 02:50, 8 August 2016 (GMT)
::::::I think I've got all of the remaining articles, so there's just a pile of images with links to the wrong Grimlock in their descriptions. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 07:11, 8 August 2016 (EDT)
:Throwing my vote in while I still can. I said it on The Allspark an will say it here that I'm in favor of splitting the Grimlock, Sideswipe, and Kickback articles. Although... [[Blurr (Prime)]] might be a fourth contender for splitting as well, but I'm not as eager to see that one split as the other three, so I won't fight for that one as much if enough people object to splitting the Blurr page. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 14:27, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
::Hrm. Yeah, I'd say split the Blurrs, too. They've really only got "car what goes fast" in common, and really, what ''else'' is a bot called Blurr going to turn into? With that one in particular, they're so different that there's no way to reconcile them for an opening paragraph other than the faux-narrative of "first he was this, then he was this". --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:38, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
:I'm actually in favour of split. Not sure I'm particularly worried about Kickback, but Grimlock and Sideswipe definitely. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 18:34, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
Starting on Sideswipe now. Though, come to think of it, is it necessary to title ''Robots in Disguise'' Sideswipe at "Sideswipe (RID 2015)" since the 2001 guy has a space in his name? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 11:15, 8 August 2016 (EDT)
::No, strictly speaking it wouldn't need the 2015, though it's probably a case where an argument could be made for making an exception? [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 12:36, 8 August 2016 (EDT)

== Generations toyline page ==

A thought: do the ''Combiner Wars'' and ''Titans Return'' sublines merit their own pages? The [[Transformers: Generations|''Generations'' page]] has exceeded the length of even the [[The Transformers (toyline)|U.S. G1 toyline page]], and barring some unforeseen financial disaster at Hasbro, we know that the Prime Wars Trilogy will get another entry after ''Titans Return''. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 16:28, 14 August 2016 (EDT)
:I agree. Given how the "''Combiner Wars''" and "''Titans Return''" names overshadow the "''Generations''" name on the packaging, I think we should give them their own page. The fact that each also has a [[Combiner Wars (franchise)|franchise]] [[Titans Return (franchise)|page]] I think warrants this expansion. --[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 18:20, 14 August 2016 (EDT)
:I'm on board with that.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 06:27, 15 August 2016 (EDT)
::Given that Combiner Wars, Titans Return and the next line are under the "Prime Wars" umbrella, maybe we should make a Prime Wars subpage for Generations, similar to the way certain character pages have a separate Toys page, and put the toys in those three lines on that page.[[User:Stealthyboy|Stealthyboy]] ([[User talk:Stealthyboy|talk]]) 17:10, 18 August 2016 (EDT)
Anyone in opposition to this motion? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 00:09, 21 August 2016 (EDT)
:Splitting is probably the least unwieldy option, or will be eventually, so I don't see why not. [[User:Item42|Item42]] ([[User talk:Item42|talk]]) 00:32, 21 August 2016 (EDT)
I'd been considering this myself for a while. My suggestion, I guess, would be splitting it three ways, by logo/branding - original, FOC/T30, and Prime Wars. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 04:45, 21 August 2016 (EDT)
:I think the original Deluxe line, FoC, and T30 can all stay on the same Generations page since their packaging has "Transformers: Generations" as the main thing. I'd even argue splitting up Combiner Wars and Titans Return into their own pages given that (as far as I know) Prime Wars wasn't mentioned on their toy packaging. --[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 11:55, 21 August 2016 (EDT)
::Of course the argument "size of the logo on the packaging" opens a whole can of worms again regarding ''[[Reveal the Shield]]'', which we currently consider a [[subline imprint]] of [[Transformers (2010 toyline)|''Transformers'' (2010)]]… Long story short, the title "Reveal the Shield" on the packaging has the same size and font and all as the concurrently available original ''[[Transformers: Generations|Generations]]'' Deluxe line's title (seriouly, just judging from the packaging alone, [http://imgur.com/a/Mhhjr how is the right one a toy line and the left one only a subline imprint]?)… on the other hand, all the ''Reveal the Shield'' assortments were continued from the 2010 ''Transformers'' line's general retail assortments ([http://imgur.com/B2YWKYd same assortment numbers]), which were simpy branded ''Transformers'' with additional stickers for the ''[[Hunt for the Decepticons]]'' promotion and Jesus Christ on a bicycle 2010's branding was confusing as hell.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 15:34, 22 August 2016 (EDT)
:::''Combiner Wars'' and ''Titans Return'', though, are subline imprints with noteworthy fiction due to their status as multimedia branding. If and when I get to separating out the toylines into their own articles, I believe I will focus on those two. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 23:40, 25 August 2016 (EDT)

== Masterforce humans and transtectors ==

Um, why are we separating the human Minerva, Ginrai, etc. from the robot Minerva, Ginrai, etc? Especially considering that we just fairly recently combined the organic Nebulan Peacemaker (et al.) and the robotic Peaceman (et al.). --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:39, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
:Well, it's not really a comparable situation to Peacemaker and co. - this is robot and human versions of the same character co-existing together in the same world, not a character being variably robot or human in different universes. With new fiction (and probably more to come) of the humans and robots off doing separate stuff, splitting them out is probably the solution that leads to the least-confusing biography write-ups... [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 12:46, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
::We already did this almost two years ago for [[Shūta Gō]] and [[Goshooter]] when they appeared simultaneously in order to keep track of them better. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 12:49, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
:::What Jalaguy said. Otherwise we get alternating paragraphs of human and robot Minerva fiction which only confuse readers. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 16:16, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
::::Should their toys be split onto subpages as well then? It seems redundant to have exactly the same section on both pages.[[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 17:10, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
:::::They're not that long and they don't have the exact same set of toys. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 17:14, 30 August 2016 (EDT)

==Bios by Universal Stream==
For characters like Jhiaxus who have totally different personalities, I think we should have individual bios placed above their fiction. Though we do note that certain characters have wildly different portrayals, we never really explain their personality, simply listing what happens in their fictional appearances. This could also count for locations as well. For example, Cybertron is a very different planet in several continuities, yet we don't usually have individual descriptions of each version. Currently we (for the most part) only list the history of the planet, not its defining physical characteristics. I'm not talking about a long bio, just a few sentences to clarify the differences with its other versions. Does anyone else agree? --[[User:Halfshell25|Halfshell25]] 12:31, 04 September 2016 (EDT)

== Titan Master toy info accessibility ==

To account for ''Titans Return'' Titan Masters whose names and personalities match the large classic dudes instead of the small classic dudes they tend to physically resemble, I have added links in the 1980s Nebulans' toy sections pointing to the large guy's ''Titans Return'' toys. How does everyone feel about this? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 22:23, 8 September 2016 (EDT)
:Sounds good to me. I was going to put the full entries on their pages, but this probably works better. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 06:57, 9 September 2016 (EDT)
::Personalities? I am intrigued. How do you know what their personalities are? There are no bios or anything. - [[User:Gimmick|Gimmick]] ([[User talk:Gimmick|talk]]) 18:18, 9 September 2016 (EDT)
:::Haven't you seen the packaging backsides? Or the [[Titans Return: The Power of the Titan Masters|available on the Internet catalog]]? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 19:25, 9 September 2016 (EDT)
::::I know about the catalog bios, but the single-packed Titan Masters really don't have bios anywhere on their package. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 20:28, 9 September 2016 (EDT)
:::::Yeah, the single-packed TMs don't have their bios on their packaging, just in the storybook/catalogue and on their Hasbro.com listings. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 08:02, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
::::::I haven't read the Comic-Con storybook, but thanks for the heads up on the Hasbro.com bios. The Wiki could probably say more about that. Although I think I would rather not have known that some Titan Masters have their big-guy personality just because in the real life universe, their toy was packaged individually. Personal canon: Titan Master Fangry's superpower is that he comes with Google Maps preinstalled. - [[User:Gimmick|Gimmick]] ([[User talk:Gimmick|talk]]) 10:49, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
:Should the same system be used for [[Emissary (Generations)|Emissary]] on [[Spike_Witwicky_(G1)|Spike]] and [[Galen Kord|Galen's]] pages? At the moment the full entry for Emissary is on Spike's page with nothing on Galen's, even though the G1 toy is on both. [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 07:06, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
::Emissary is designed to look like Spike and Galen's armor, though. That's more in common than there is between the single Titan Masters and their corresponding Nebulans, who basically have "turns into the same head" as the only reason to associate them. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 14:59, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I suppose, but there are a lot of toys that look very similar to a previous character but aren't on their page. [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 11:34, 12 September 2016 (EDT)

== Add links to uploaded videos of episodes in the articles for episodes? ==

I have been watching the G1 on dailymotion and all thanks to this wiki, I just check the list of episodes and look for it in a couple of chosen favorite channels.
I thought that maybe it'd be cool if we could simply add links to the episodes in the articles themselves?

As a bonus, we could also form a team and:
* Set up our own channel.
* Collect the best quality versions of the episodes from various sources.
* Link to those videos in the articles. --[[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 03:20, 14 September 2016 (EDT)
:Nope. The wiki is ''not'' going to endorse piracy. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 03:28, 14 September 2016 (EDT)
::That would give Hasbro a nice, easy reason to shut the wiki down, which is not what we're after. When it's all out for purchase, it's not fair to them to put it up illegally. [[User:AkibaSilver|AkibaSilver]] ([[User talk:AkibaSilver|talk]]) 08:31, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:Christ no. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 15:25, 15 September 2016 (EDT)

== Animation/continuity errors ==

Hey, this is just a little thing - I'm not proposing anything, just mentioning this with a view to moving forward, but I really dislike how on episode pages we put errors first. I get why, it's a carryover from our G1 episode pages being some of the first things we ever did, and errors being perhaps the most famous, most catalogue-able thing about that series. But it's an out-of-place, and frankly I think demeaning, thing to have as the first entry for an average modern cartoon episode when there's plenty of other, more "relevant" information to provide ahead of mistakes. We don't do it for comics, and I don't like it on episodes either. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 14:06, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'd say go ahead and make a proposal to change it. You have my vote behind you. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 14:49, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'm beyond okay with this and absolutely in favor of making this a broad-scale change to existing pages. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 15:13, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:Yup, also very much behind this. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 15:21, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:If we're re-ordering anyway, does anyone else think it would be more informative to "continuity errors" always follow "continuity notes" for episodes that have both, even if it means "continuity errors" is no longer consecutive with "animation and technical errors"? [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 15:51, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
::I wouldn't be adverse to making the errors a subset of notes, really. I mean, a continuity error IS technically a note about continuity. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 16:05, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I'm not sure, with modern shows, that we even ''need'' separate sections for "continuity errors" and "animation errors." Again, with G1 - yes, we did, because there were so many. But such things are so rare now that a simple "Errors" section seems like all we need to everything effectively.
::::Ehn, I feel like keeping all the continuity bits together, be they complimentary or clashing, makes more sense than lumping the continuity-clashes with "someone forgot to texture that panel in that one shot". --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 16:15, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
::I agree. Although, personally, I don't see a reason to bundle it up under one "Errors" heading. As a reader, I would like them to be under relevant headings. --[[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 14:29, 18 September 2016 (EDT)

== Japanese UT character disambig tags ==

Would anyone object to me simplifying the tags "(Micron Densetsu)", "(Super Link)", and "(Galaxy Force)" for Japanese-original Unicron Trilogy characters with such tags down to just "(MD)", "(SL)", and "(GF)"? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 00:48, 20 September 2016 (EDT)
:Go for it! --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 01:09, 20 September 2016 (EDT)

== RID/G1 character merges ==

What with the steadily increasing numbers of RID 2001 characters imported into Generation 1 based continuities with basically no differences, I feel like we should probably just merge their G1 counterparts into the RID pages and be done with it, especially with the blurred lines of Car Robots involved; we're already doing so for Wind Sheer and Skyfire. This would (probably) mean merging the following pages:
* Bruticus (CR) into [[Bruticus (RID)]]
* [[Cryotek (Universe)]] into [[Cryotek (RID)]]
* Dark Scream (G1) into [[Dark Scream]]
* Emissary (BW) into [[Emissary (RID)]]
* Gigatron (G1) into [[Megatron (RID)]]
* [[Jhiaxus (RID)]] into [[Jhiaxus (G2)]]
* Side Burn (G1) into [[Side Burn (RID)]] (arguable)
* Sky-Byte (G2) into [[Sky-Byte (RID)]]
* Slapper (Universe) into [[Slapper (RID)]]
* And probably [[Predacon (RID)]] into [[Predacon (BW)]] as well; the latter kind of needs a more continuity-neutral reformat anyway.
I just feel like all these fairly arbitrary splits for guys who are intended to be ''pretty much'' the same characters, coupled with the explanatory blocks of text about Japanese G1 continuity, is making this more complicated than it needs to be. Thoughs? --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 11:54, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:Yup. About time too. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 12:04, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'm down. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 12:11, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:[[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive60#Probably an unpopular thought, but...|Always been for it.]] I'm not sure if I'm on board with Hasbro-original characters like Jhiaxus and Cryotek, but I'll accept them if it means the CR guys get merged. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 12:21, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:Oppose. RID is not only a separate continuity, but also a separate multiversal stream. To start merging these characters just because they're broadly similar doesn't really make sense. After all, ''Animated'' [[Ransack (Animated)|Ransack]] and [[Crumplezone (Animated)|Crumplezone]] are practically identical in personality and design to their ''Cybertron'' counterparts, but we acknowledge them as separate distinct entities. And characters imported into G1 like Sky-Byte have shown up in three different continuities. Would this also mean ''Universe'' [[Ratchet (Universe)|Ratchet]] gets folded in with G1 [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]]? Plus, this could lead to confusion by someone wondering "Why isn't all the info about Fire Truck Optimus with Old Optimus?" I think by this point we're long past merging RID and G1 in any form other than the brief "in Japan, this cartoon is G1 because dumb reasons." --[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 12:47, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::The difference between G1 and RID is inherently different to the difference between G1 and Animated because of Car Robots. People wouldn't wonder why RID Optimus wasn't with G1 Optimus because they have distinct designs and personalities, and have existed in the same continuity. We already have different incarnations of the same character from separate continuity families sharing pages, so it's not like this is going to start a slippery slope. (And no, Universe and G1 Ratchet would not be merged, for the same reason that RID and G1 Prowl would not be merged.) --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 13:02, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:::The only slippery slope involved here is the one we're already sliding down that involves more and more RID characters appearing in G1 stories that makes this a more plausible action to take. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:06, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:::Except this wiki has always used the American-based fiction as it's primary source, where RID is separate from everything. And even Car Robots being G1 is the result of a freaking RETCON. I'd even argue that any characters who do have multiple continuities on their page be split (though the only examples that come to mind are former Multiversal Singularities like Unicron or Vector Prime, which were only created that way ''because'' they were multiversal singularities.)

:::Also, If I end up getting out voted on this, I'd at least like to argue against merging Side Burn, Jhiaxus, and GIgatron/Megatron. Because G1 Side Burn does differ from RID in a few notable ways (most notably NOT being brother to a guy named Prowl), Jhiaxus is more of a repurposing, and not only is there already a Megatron in the IDW comics, there's a Gigatron in the Animated universe that is also based on RID Megs. And if we're merging BW Bruticus into RID Bruticus, we'd also have to merge TF 2010 Backstop, Underbite, and Wreckloose in with their Cybertron counterparts. All in all, this seems like it's becoming more of a headache than just keeping them separate.--[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 14:41, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::::This is kind of a weird string of complaints that don't really logically bear on anything. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:17, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'd be fine with this. Certainly seems preferable to weird crap like Sky-Byte having Japanese G1 fiction on one article and Hasbro G1 fiction on another. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]])
:I agree with the general idea and most of the examples, but I'd say Jhiaxus isn't really the same situation as the rest. I'm not sure about the factions either. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 14:45, 21 September 2016 (EDT)

Some other stuff that could stand to be merged:
*Hound (RID) into [[Hound (G1)]]
*Sky Lynx (RID) into [[Sky Lynx (G1)]]
*Teletraan I (RID) into Teletraan I (G1)
Mmmmmmaybe [[Alpha Trion (RID)]]? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 13:38, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:Three "CHRIST YES"es, and a "hmnnn." - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:41, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:For what it's worth, [[Ultra Trion]]'s "Trion" bits do sure look like they came off of G1 A3... --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:15, 21 September 2016 (EDT)

How do we feel about the likes of [[Ransack (IDW)|Ransack]]? Could he stand to be merged into his ''Cybertron'' page? --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee|talk]]) 15:22, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:Eh, hang on I think I'm caught up now. Without ''Car Robots'' there's no link to G1 so he's a separate character unlike the RID guys. Is that right? --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee|talk]]) 15:27, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::Yeah, that's a separate discussion (and a merge I'd disagree with, but let's focus on the RID guys for now). [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:35, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I agree that they should be merged except Jhiaxus.--[[User:Primestar3|Primestar3]] ([[User talk:Primestar3|talk]]) 15:38, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:I think I'd be against merging anyone from different continuity families other than between G1/BW and RiD. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 15:55, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::That seems to be a reasonable rule of thumb. --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee|talk]]) 16:09, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::To be honest, I'd be kind of inclined to merge the BWU Micromaster/Mini-Con repurposings as well, just because both iterations of the characters are so insignificant, and AVP seemed to make a point of having a lot of Mini-Cons exist across continuity families... but that's a separate argument and one with no real solid logic behind it. In this particular instance, yes, leave it as G1 and RID. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 16:16, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
I'm not sure exactly what position to take, but I would say that Hasbro-original characters are somewhat different from the guys who share a CR/RiD cartoon narrative. Thus, I think RiD Alpha Trion should be looked at the same way as RiD Optimus Prime and RiD Ultra Magnus. And to add to the list of pages up for consideration:
*Plasma into [[Cerebros (RID)]]
Also, I note that the one-off text mention of IDW G1 Side Burn. Anyone know if that iteration is tied to RiD 2001 Side Burn or is an independent conception? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 16:32, 21 September 2016 (EDT)

So should we merge Cryotek and Jhiaxus? I opposed it back when because there was no real reason to while we had the others split, but now I think that it's a close enough situation that they should be merged, even if they don't have Car Robots equivalents; it's still "RID guy is used in a G1 universe". (Plus, Bruticus only has a "Car Robots" counterpart because of AVP fiction, so merging him solely on that basis while leaving the other Hasbro-originals separate feels overly nitpicky.) --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 09:02, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
:I feel like Jhiaxus is more "RID Optimus Prime and G1 Optimus Prime"—he would have had his article all along if it wasn't for 3H saying it was the original Jhiaxus. I admit I don't have an argument for Cryotek. Just preference. If you want to merge them, *shrug* [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 09:16, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
::I think they should remain separate. RiD Cryotek and Jhiaxus had independent Viron existences in the first place due to their toys, and I think their personalities are distinct. That their toys were repurposed is like ''Prime'' Ratchet's design getting repurposed in G1 for that X-Files Hearts of Steel story. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 10:33, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I think, at least in the case of Jhiaxus, "distinct personality" doesn't matter that much, because he's never been consistent. Really, I just think it's neater to have them together if the other RID characters are, especially since they both predate recent official repurposing trends; 3H's thinking was probably "Cryotek is Cryotek"/"Jhiaxus is Jhiaxus". --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 10:39, 22 September 2016 (EDT)

Wait, better argument: we're already keeping the Hasbro-original, toyline-only characters Skyfire and Wind Sheer merged across continuity families, and it'd be patently silly to split them out. I don't want to argue for consistency above all things, but in this matter, I think it'd be a good idea. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 12:42, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
:Okay, I do not necessarily agree, but I can see a case to be made that similarly to Wind Sheer and Skyfire, Cryotek is a Hasbro RiD-original guy who was extended into G1. But that does not apply to Jhiaxus. G2 Jhiaxus existed by himself for a decade before the independent RiD toy came along. RiD Jhiaxus by our policies and by logic should remain an independent page. Otherwise, we should merge ''Prime'' Ratchet into G1 Ratchet's page. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 04:20, 23 September 2016 (EDT)
::Really? Because his page only got built when I mentioned his name in Ask Vector Prime as a continuity patch as far as I know. That hardly seems like a cut-and-dried case. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 07:41, 23 September 2016 (EDT)
:::Yeah, I think that the fact that for a decade and a half the ''only'' use of RID Jhiaxus was as the G2 character makes it more fair to fudge categorization for the sake of consistency. Plus, as I said, G2 Jhiaxus is already both "tyrannical leader" and "sycophantic scientist"; is "dedicated, loyal lieutenant" that much of a step away? (Hell, you could even look at it as a halfway point between the two...)

:I disagree. One of the things I like about this wiki, is the fact that every continuity get's its own share of articles. And RID and G1 are not even part of the same continuity family. I don't see why it's even being considered and agreed to. Also, they weren't just different families, but RID is a japanese cartoon.
:You say that there are virtually no differences, so I assume that they look identical to their G1 counterparts, but what about the story? Take hound for example. I haven't watched the cartoon so I don't know, but if he didn't get a redesign, does that mean that he wasn't relevant to the story either? If that is the case, then I guess it won't kill to merge.
:And why would you want to merge the Predacon(BW) with Predacon(RID)? The BW Predacons came after the decepticons, and are rather like their descendants or successors, while in RID, the decepticons are like a really small sub-group of the Predacons. That alone, I believe shows that it makes no sense to merge the two. --[[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 09:44, 24 September 2016 (EDT)
::Surely that's more of an argument for splitting the Decepticons, then? I think if the Autobots and Decepticons are broadly similar enough across continuities to have only one page for each, the same's true of the BW/RID Predacons. (The Prime Predacons have a different insignia, story role and altmodes, so they wouldn't be merged.) --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 12:14, 24 September 2016 (EDT)
:::Let's compare the two, shall we?
:::Similarities:
:::* Both evil.
:::* Both led by a Megatron.
:::* Both transform into animals.
:::* Terrorize.
:::* Logo.

:::Differences:
:::* The RID Predacons have a long lasting enmity with Autobots while the BW Predacons have it with the Maximals.
:::* The BW Predacons were descended or derived from the Decepticons, while in RID, the Decepticons were a subgroup of the Predacons.
:::* Predacon Council vs Tripedacus Council
:::* The RID Predacons are rougly the same size as the Autobots while the average BW Predacons are smaller than Prime's head.
:::* Virtually no similarity at all between the story.
:::* Not a single common character. Megatron doesn't count (also he seems closer to the G1 Megatron than the Beast Megatron.)--[[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 11:14, 2 October 2016 (EDT)
::::Why does the size matter? In some JG1 stories and in ''Wings'', Beast Era characters appear as the same size as G1 characters. And what does story matter? In IDW, Autobots and Decepticons are vastly more morally gray than in Sunbow, but they're both still Autobots and Decepticons. Also, versions of Sky-Byte, Dark Scream, and Slapper have appeared variably as RiD Predacons and Beast Era Predacons.
::Hound wasn't ''in'' the RiD cartoon; or toyline, for that matter. Some guy who looks like Hound just had a small role in a convention story whose continuity family wasn't even confirmed until Ask Vector Prime said it was a "Viron" universe. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 12:06, 24 September 2016 (EDT)

== National Toy Hall of Fame nomination ==

The Transformers toyline is 1 of 12 nominees (2 or 3 will be inducted) to the [[wikipedia:National_Toy_Hall_of_Fame|National Toy Hall of Fame]], according to http://www.toyhalloffame.org/2016-finalists (which uses as an illustration the most prominent and sought-after of all Transformers, [[Topspin_(G1)#Generation_1|G1 Topspin]]).

On the http://www.toyhalloffame.org/ main page (which uses a [http://www.tfu.info/1986/Autobot/Metroplex/metroplex.htm G1 Metroplex] with broken/missing parts as an illustration) visitors can vote for their favorite nominee.

i feel like this is relevant to the wiki, but i'm not sure where to put it. Possibly a new article for the National Toy Hall of Fame? (Maybe also under Notes/Trivia in Topspin's and Metroplex's articles?)

--[[User:Rhymus|Rhymus]] ([[User talk:Rhymus|talk]]) 03:35, 26 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'm not sure about a page for the National Toy Hall of Fame (for comparison, we don't have pages for the museums that have G1 Grimlock or G1 Slag in their exhibits), but mentioning it on the pages of those two individuals sounds good. I would also recommend a mention on the [[Transformers brand]] page, as this concerns Transformers as a toy concept.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 07:04, 26 September 2016 (EDT)

== Easter eggs and homages ==

We usually try to point out Easter eggs and homages [http://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Nook&diff=1125477&oldid=1125466 such] [http://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Roboid&diff=1125475&oldid=1125465 as] [http://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Equinoid&diff=1124708&oldid=1120461 these], don't we?

--[[User:Rhymus|Rhymus]] ([[User talk:Rhymus|talk]]) 03:40, 26 September 2016 (EDT)
:Yeah, I think the fact that one of the Roboids looks like Nook should be pointed out on one or both of those pages. However, I wouldn't call the Equinoids MLP homages unless they're identifiable as based on specific ones, which I don't think is the case. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 13:48, 26 September 2016 (EDT)

== Transformers-Universe links? ==
I've noticed some pages now have additional links to the toy summaries at Transformers-Universe.com, for instance [[Scourge (RID)]]. Is this necessary, and was there a discussion of it at the time? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 23:26, 2 October 2016 (EDT)
:It looks like Philister's been adding them. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 23:45, 2 October 2016 (EDT)

== Captions/Humor ==
So it kinda hit me that maybe we need a slight updating to our Captions policy page. [[User:M_Sipher/Sandbox:Caption_page|I've put up a Sandbox]] which reflects the "cleanup" direction we've been going in. I'm open to thoughts/rewording. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 05:08, 6 October 2016 (EDT)
:"Yes, she is a girl." and "Any and all variations of "dude looks like a lady" or similar "jokes" about transgender people. No. No. NO. (This will get you more than a revert.)" Aren't these already implicitly covered by the note about no gender or sexuality? Should we change to explicitly mention gender identity in that previous note to make it clear? Or leave as is? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 07:17, 6 October 2016 (EDT)
::The first one is more a "joke" on the incredibly awkward phrasing of an old Hasbro-written AVP from the Cybertron era... which is frankly so obscure at this point I'm not sure why it's there anyway. "Dude looks like a lady" in particular popped up a distressing number of times in the past ''and'' is a well-known pop music reference, thus the callout, so maybe that should stay, with a "see above" rather than the longer followup. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 13:16, 6 October 2016 (EDT)
:::Maybe make it more obvious that it's ok for new users to get rid of a caption if the joke is blatantly racist/sexist/phobic? --[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 15:50, 6 October 2016 (EDT)

== Combiner team member toys ==

Looking at the pages for various combiner teams, I see several ways of handling the toy section. Some include write ups for every toy of every member, some give bare links to the individual members' toy sections with write ups only for releases of a complete set, some only list complete sets (ignoring releases of individual members, such as Universe Silverbolt, completely). Is there a consensus on how this should be handled? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 08:48, 17 October 2016 (EDT)

== Japan-exclusive AoE toys ==

If we aim to match Japanese-original toys with the corresponding Japanese franchise, then "[[Buzz Saw (AOE)]]", "[[Jolt (AOE)]]", and "[[Sling (AOE)]]" should all have the disambig tag "(LA)" for ''Lost Age'', yes? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 00:26, 20 October 2016 (EDT)
:Normally I'd agree with a suggestion like this, but in this case, I'd be more inclined to keep them at "(AOE)", as there was one overall franchise for the fourth movie but two distinctly-named Japanese toylines for it: Movie Advanced Series and Lost Age Series. The former toyline even bore the English "Age of Extinction" logo from the American toyline on its packaging in addition to its own logo. And with the film itself being renamed "Transformers: Lost Age" in Japanese, that makes a third name involved in this franchise that differs from the other two. I feel it would be more informative/less obstructive to consider the overall franchise under the umbrella term of "Age of Extinction" with the movie itself called "Lost Age" and the two toylines called "Movie Advanced Series" and "Lost Age Series". After all, the franchises of the first three films kept their American names in their Japanese toylines despite the films of both ROTF and DOTM being renamed "Transformers: Revenge" and "Transformers: Darkside Moon" respectively, and the American AOE franchise had two separately-named lines of its own in "Generations" and "Robots in Disguise" as well. Likewise, a similar case could be made for the TF: Prime franchise having ''three'' uniquely named lines in "First Edition", "Robots in Disguise" and "Beast Hunters". A single, consistent, and unifying umbrella term for the overall franchise helps to bring order to all this name chaos and makes information more easily accessible and understood for the Average Joe. That's my piece, anyway. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 01:11, 20 October 2016 (EDT)
::I feel like Jolt and Buzz Saw should be merged to their obvious inspirations, anyway. Their categorization under Movieverse is honestly kind of arbitrary. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 01:24, 20 October 2016 (EDT)
Excellent point. I concur with your judgment, Sabrblade. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 01:51, 21 October 2016 (EDT)

== Remaining Masterforce humans and transtectors ==

Would anyone object if I went ahead and separated out all the remaining ''Masterforce'' humans and independent robots so that we can have a clear delineation of what the humans versus robots did post-series? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 03:15, 21 October 2016 (EDT)
:I think we should pull the toys and merchandise out to another page in the suite. Any toy that represents either is likely to be repurposed as the other, so this would reduce the degree of repetition on the pages. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 11:20, 21 October 2016 (EDT)
::No, there's no point in making people jump through hoops to get info on maybe two toys. The repetition there is not a bother. Let's stop thinking pedantic and start thinking "does this help the reader in any way at all". --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 13:48, 21 October 2016 (EDT)
:::One extra click is hardly jumping through hoops, and it will make things easier on editors to not have to keep the two sections in sync. [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 19:00, 22 October 2016 (EDT)

== A proposal for reducing clutter ==

I made this proposal on The Allspark Forums' TFWiki thread and am bringing it here for further consideration. I'd like to re-open a discussion that has been discussed several times before. As a result of the above "RID/G1 character merges" topic, several Viron characters who had virtually identical Primax analogues, or who themselves were virtually identical analogues to Primax characters, got the analogues merged with the originals not too long ago. In a similar vein to that, I'd like to open up the suggestion of doing the same for other very similar cases in other continuity families, such as for Henkei! Henkei! Hot Shot, IDW Knock Out, Beast Wars: Uprising Thunderhoof, etc.

Now I know very good and well why we have disambiguated these kinds of characters over the years, but with the merging of several Viron and Primax carbon-copy duplicates, I feel the same could possibly be done for other carbon-copy duplicates of other continuity families. I am also well aware of the potential confusion that could arise from this (i.e. - "How is Knock Out BOTH a Prime guy and an IDW G1 guy?!!! That's IMPOSSIBLE!!!"), but bear with me, for I have a very simple proposal that could be the first step in making this kind of character mergers be less confusing than it could be. And that is to simply add the word "originally" to the Continuity Identifier at the top of each original character version's page.

For example, RID Thunderhoof's current line of:

"''Thunderhoof is a Decepticon from the Robots in Disguise portion of the Aligned continuity family.''"

would instead read as:

"''Thunderhoof is a Decepticon originally from the Robots in Disguise portion of the Aligned continuity family.''"

A simple, elegant, and straightforward addition to the sentence that tells us what is true and factual, and as well that the character type has gone beyond the scope of its continuity family of origin.

Of course, we'd have to be very selective and particular about which articles get merged and which don't. Like, all the prose story namedrops and certain comic background cameos could definitely be merged, while things like G1 and RID Windblade would best remain separate. Any yays, nays, or other comments on this? --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 20:10, 23 October 2016 (EDT)
:As I said over on AllSpark, I am impressed with the simplicity and elegance of this solution and it's ability to reduce useless clutter and improved user accessibility. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 20:12, 23 October 2016 (EDT)
:The entire backbone of this wiki's organization is via continuity family. Ignoring that just because somebody thinks an extra page here or there is "clutter" seems more confusing than the status quo. I'm not even sure what the platonic ideal is here. If there's a Maximal Thunderhoof in the G1 continuity family, I'd rather go to a page specifically for that iteration of the character, as with every other single character on the wiki, rather than have to go dig him out of the bottom of somebody else's page. It's not clutter reduction, it's obfuscation to remove a problem we don't even have. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 21:26, 23 October 2016 (EDT)
: I was about to bring up Side Burn, but... god dammit, we already DID this with him? This makes me FURIOUS. Is there a discussion somewhere? I don't see it on this Community Portal. This isn't "reducing clutter," it's shoving the wiki up its own ass. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 21:32, 23 October 2016 (EDT)
::ugh. found it. what in the fuck --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 21:34, 23 October 2016 (EDT)
::Yeah, I can't get behind this. It feels wrong and trying to solve a problem that's not really a problem. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 21:38, 23 October 2016 (EDT)
:::I'm fine if we don't go through with this. To be frank, it was the aforementioned merging of all those Viron and Primax guys (which Jim and Chris were in favor of as well) that got me to think of this idea. Had it not been for all those mergers, I mightn't have even bothered. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 21:48, 23 October 2016 (EDT)
::::Something ''else'' I don't really get the point of. This is veering well into Wikipedia-level mooshing. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 21:54, 23 October 2016 (EDT)
:::::Apparently Sabrblade has unwittingly demonstrated the mysterious yet elusive Slippery Slope. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 22:15, 23 October 2016 (EDT)
::::::Well, I had no involvement in those Viron/Primax mergers, so I dunno what to say about those. I wouldn't be opposed to those mergers being undone if such an undertaking were to be carried out. Seeing them merged came as a surprise to me as well the first time I noticed that they had all been merged. Whatever call everyone decides upon I'm willing to go along with for the good of the Wiki. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 22:17, 23 October 2016 (EDT)

:Bluntly, this "issue" can be solved with a Notes section addition.
:"Knock Out has a nigh-identical counterpart in the IDW Generation One continuity, because Maighread Scott really likes Knock Out."
:That Note on ''Prime'' Knock Out's page would link to G1 IDW Knock Out, boom, done. And this is '''''really''''' only necessary for bots like Knock Out who share names with more completely different characters than alt-continuity analogues. We wouldn't merge ''or'' make a similar Note for G1/RID Sky-Byte because the only Sky-Bytes that exist are all based directly on that first Sky-Byte. Same with Thunderhoof, because there's only two and that disambiguation up top ought to take care of that. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 22:53, 23 October 2016 (EDT)
::Agreed, it doesn't need to be more complicated than that. I dislike the Primax/Viron mergers as well but I can put up with those. [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 18:12, 24 October 2016 (EDT)
:I was for the Primax/Viron mergers, but I'm against this, and between the two this is the one I'm more certain about. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 01:20, 24 October 2016 (EDT)
:Definitely not. It's like asking someone to give you their best car in exchange for a Fiat Multipla. Continuity specific character pages keep the wiki organized, while this "solution" would only add to the confusion of the average new reader. --[[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 19:37, 24 October 2016 (EDT)

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2016-10-02T17:08:26Z

Furhun:

__NEWSECTIONLINK__

This is the place for discussion of topics that affect the entire wiki. Some topics that would ordinarily be here have merited their own pages:

{{chapters|title=Specific Discussion Subjects|align=left|content=
<div class="list-header">'''Moving From Wikia:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving|Arriving]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving|Leaving]]
* [[Transformers Wiki:Community Portal/Complaints|Complaints]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''New Ad Policy:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki:Ads|Ads]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Bookworm Database-Crash:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central|Damage Control Central]]
* [[Project:Bookworm Crash]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving2|Leaving Take 2]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Server Move:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving2|Arriving Take 2]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Relicensing:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Relicensing|Relicensing]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Dealing With Vandalism:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Vandalism|Vandalism]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''GoBots Sister Wiki:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/GoBots|Discussion on the place of GoBots in this wiki]]
<br/> <div class="list-header">'''Wiki Technical Information:'''</div>
* [[Transformers_Wiki:Tech|A Not So Brief Summary of the Horrible Things That McFly and Co. Have Done To Keep This Wiki From Melting Down]]
}}<br/>

{{:{{FULLPAGENAMEE}}/Archive}}


== IDW Revolution ==

So the preview for ''Rom'' #1 shows the EDC in it and we can probably expect more of this sort of thing. This could be a problem for recording stuff, since the EDC is a Transformers concept but if it becomes a ''Rom'' one too, we technically need to put a lot of Rom storylinks here.

So should we do a rule that it has to be ''specifically'' a Transformer appearing to get covered, and otherwise we'll put it in Notes ("the EDC also shoot Rom!!")? --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 17:17, 7 June 2016 (GMT)

:I think the closest thing we have to an existing standard is [[Unfoldings!|G.I. Joe #138]], a comic that is not an identified crossover with Transformers and contains the most minor of guest-appearances inside. The full issue is summarized on this site, and details of that issue appear in the fiction section of every character, even ones like [[Wild Bill]] who had no contact with Transformers whatsoever for the story.

:Beyond that "standard", though, you're right that we will need to establish a rule for when Hasbro/IDW Universe stories are covered. Only when Transformers appear in the issue? Transformers characters? Transformers concepts? If Blackrock appears in MASK #3, do we cover that issue based on that alone? What if there's also a one-panel flashback of Blackrock with Galvatron? Do we cover it then? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 12:50, 7 June 2016 (EDT)

::My two cents. If it's not a piece of Transformers fiction, it generally only gets mentioned in the notes, even if a nominally-TF character appears. Major characters (you can decide who fits) can tip the scales, and situations like GI Joe #138 get included because that issue is essential to understanding issue #139 (where the crossover is first explicitly mentioned, but where the action is already well in play as the issue opens, and #138 is necessary to understand how we got there. Note also that a major TF character appears in #138, if only briefly). These general guidelines should be able to suffice for the most part. --[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] ([[User talk:G.B. Blackrock|talk]]) 13:32, 7 June 2016 (EDT)

:::Disagree on #138. It's completely unnecessary for understanding #139 ("Megatron is attacking the castle!" is pretty clearly conveyed by the splash page), and it actually ''confuses'' the situation, since the shadowy conversation in #138 is ignored or outright contradicted later in the story.

:::But regardless, that brings us back around to "What's a major character?" Only Transformers? Pre-IDW humans like Fairborne, Spike, and Blackrock as well? Jimmy Pink and Jones? What if Battle Force 2000 encounters the Enigma of Combination? What if MASK travels to Cybertron, but no identifiable Transformers appear? I realize a lot of these questions can't be answered until it happens, but some idea where everyone sits on the matter should be established ahead of time, if we can. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 13:46, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::If it's not an explicit and branded crossover we should have minimal coverage. If an actual Transformer shows up in another book, we cover his appearance but that's it. 138 is probably covered in too much detail already. Transformers concepts and settings and human companions appearing in other books are notes. --[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 14:15, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::I think if a Transformer or other Clearly A Transformers-Franchise Character like Blackrock, Marissa, Spike, etc. shows up in another title's issue, than that issue should get fully covered as a crossover regardless of "branding." A TF-originated ''concept'', however, like the EDC, putting in an appearance probably doesn't need to be more than a note somewhere. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 14:49, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::No. We don't cover every Marvel Comics issue Death's Head's shown up in following his departure from the TF universe. And before you "WELL ACTUALLY" me, he's only not a Fully Legal Transformers Character on the most petty of technicalities. He was made to be a Transformers character and given a legal out to be used elsewhere without paying Hasbro.<br>
::::::AT MOST, non-Transformers books should be lumped together in a fiction section on the franchise in question's page. Personally I have grave doubts as to just how much character bleed there actually will be, as well as how long any of these titles are even going to ''last''. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 15:03, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::WELL ACTUALLY another difference there is that, like you said, Death's Head ''departed'' the TF universe. He was taken away from the TF franchise and given to Marvel-at-large. This has not happened with say, Marissa Fairborn, who is still a Transformers character. Her "home title" is still The Transformers. A hypothetical Marissa Fairborn guest appearance in an issue of M.A.S.K. is, IMO, just as much of a TF crossover as an appearance of, say, Cosmos or Soundwave would be. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 15:22, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::::Which should still be relegated to a singular fiction section on the not-Transformers franchise page. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 15:41, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::But the fact that that legal out was ''created'' would, I think, make him a Marvel-by-way-of-Transformers character. He may have been ''created'' for Transformers, but he was also created to be ''used'' outside Transformers. Plus, uh, what Kil said.
:::::::My proposal: only issues with Transformers in get their own pages; any other appearances of TF characters and concepts go on a single page for the whole franchise/comic. Doesn't leave anything out, but also doesn't overstep the wiki's bounds. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 15:44, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::::Death's Head's legal reality is exactly why he's in those non-Transformers stories in the first place; I don't think he's a good example. I think sticking to things that cannot exist out of a ''Transformers'' context (i.e. the Enigma of Combination, Optimus Prime, etc.) is a okay baseline. The EDC can always serve as a generic "defense against aggressive aliens" organization independent of Transformers, but things like the Matrix can't. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:56, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::Transformers get full writeups and bestow full writeup coverage on the issues in which they appear. TF-originating non-TF characters and concepts (Spike, EDC, the Enigma, cosmic rust) get very brief mentions within the main bodies of their articles, in proper chronological order in the IDW Fiction sections, with storylinks properly annotated; these storylinks would be redirected to the main non-TF-franchise comic page. IE "storylink|ROM #6" just goes to the ROM comic. ROM (character) does not have any of his own adventures chronicled ever except when he's doing it right next to a Transformer, regardless of title. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 19:11, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::"Transformers get full writeups and bestow full writeup coverage on the issues in which they appear." No. A one-panel cameo does not mean we write up the entire issue as its own article. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 19:34, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::We've got full pages for the non-Transformers Infestation comics and Unit:E, just putting that out there. It's not like covering issues in which Transformers appear is going to lead to people insisting we cover the entirety of okay actually I may be giving the average wiki user too much credit --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 19:46, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::::I'd much rather just lose the full page coverage for Unit E and non-TF Infestation than start giving it to all these new comics. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep|talk]]) 19:49, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::BINGO. It's not before anymore. We live in a very different world than when a lot of this wiki's "standards" were crafted. What worked when TFs was a healthy-yet-niche franchise, perhaps not so much now that it's being used as a tentpole for a lot of other things. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 20:27, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::Disagreed, I guess. I feel like if it's a book by a Hasbro licensee using their Transformers license to use Transformers in the story, it doesn't particularly matter what the name on the book is. Sure, if it's, like, a 1-panel flashback or something we wouldn't even mention otherwise, we can leave it out, but if they have a bigger role, it shouldn't need "The Transformers" on the cover to get a writeup. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:23, 8 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::I'm down with "Transformers get full writeups and bestow full writeup coverage on the issues in which they appear", with the caveat of "except when it's a minor cameo" (i.e. not Megatron showing up in Joe #138 as he's the cliffhanger but like how Nick Fury's making a cameo in TF #3 to go "look this guy's paying attention). Anything else goes in Notes unless & until it explicitly impacts on a Transformers comic, i.e. crossover stories. --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]} 04:05, 8 June 2016 GMT
::::::: Hum, so... Not a total coverage, got it. But some Locations have had their own articles just because they were in the Hasbro 'verse. All that Star Wars stuff for example is mostly unrelated. If there is such a thing like an official Hasbro 'verse... shouldn't we start to list planets from other continuities? Or does that also fall under the category of "only if a Transformer / EDC member ever puts his feet /wheels on it"? Other more precise locations may clearly not fit in here, but planets? I feel as if the Planets and stars existing in IDW's Rom are are much more observable from Earth or Cybertron than some other stuff we already have. Anyway, I'm just asking before I begin to do any unnecessary work.[[User:Xunk16|Xunk16]] ([[User talk:Xunk16|talk]]) 02:19, 23 September 2016 (EDT)
::::::::If it appears in an issue that we're covering (i.e. an issue with Transformers in), then it can get an article. If it doesn't, it doesn't. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 04:23, 23 September 2016 (EDT)

==Gobots Sister Wiki Progress==
Has anyone ever made any progress on the Gobots sister wiki? I have no experience in creating wikis, but would love to see this get made. -[[User:Halfshell25|Halfshell25]] ([[User talk:Halfshell25|talk]]) 19:21, 22 June 2016 (EDT)

== "Foreign Names" ==
The original Mandarin names of the Chinese MMO characters are not their "foreign names" and it is factually inaccurate to label them as such. The AVP replacement names are actually the "foreign" ones. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 08:45, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:Wouldn't the same objection apply to [[Ricochet (Headmasters)]] and the entirety of the Unicron Trilogy's characters? Perhaps a change to the title of the section would be appropriate, but I just read the heading as "names in a language other than English". --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 09:16, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::UT characters are in a much different position, since they were developed with both the English-speaking audience and the Japanese audience in mind, they weren't created for Japan and then imported elsewhere. I would also note that "Foreign names" isn't used to mean "names in a language other than English" on the Beastformers' articles, which list their English names under that header. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 09:56, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::What kind of a change would you suggest? Is it a matter of semantics, like we could change the headers to "International names"? Personally, I never thought the "Foreign names" header intimated something suggesting that the names were "secondary", just that we use English language names where appropriate and list the international/foreign ones at the bottom where appropriate. I don't think country of origin ever really factored into it. And we use the Foreign names section even when characters have the same names across languages, but render them in that language's alphabet for ease of reference (admittedly, we've been rather sloppy about that, particularly the similar Foreign localization sections of episodes where sometimes we list a language's info and sometimes we don't). While we could definitely stand to be more complete/precise across the board, I think altering the section titles based on country of origin would only confuse things for casual browsers. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 10:28, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::Honestly the main thing I wanna suggest is un-reverting the changes to the MMO characters back to "Original Mandarin Name" in place of "Foreign name" as that just more accurate, IMO. I also think that if the intent of the wiki is that "Foreign names" be read as "non-English names" then maybe "English" shouldn't actually appear under that header, as it does for Beastformers and Omni Producion dubs. And if "Foreign names" is actually supposed to mean "Names given to character in foreign markets" then should the name given in their ''original'' market actually be under there? Should a character's original name ever be labelled "foreign"? My gut instinct is to say "no" to that. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 11:16, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::They are foreign to our main readership, which is primarily Americans. That's what it means, regardless of whether the character is a foreign creation. We've had examples like [[Ricochet (Headmasters)|Ricochet/Stepper]], [[Snowblind|Snowblind/Beacon]], and [[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus Prime/Fire Convoy]] for years. Why is this any different? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 12:04, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::I don't know! Maybe it isn't! Maybe all characters should always have their original name listed as such instead of just being under the "Foreign names" header! Maybe they shouldn't! Maybe! --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:16, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::Foreign is always understood as being in relation to the speaker. As this wiki is English speaking, all non-English names are foreign, even if they are the original names for those characters. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:11, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::::Again, if "all non-English name are foreign" then maaaaaaaaybe the word "English" shouldn't be appearing beneath the "Foreign names" header on any articles? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:19, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::::That's a more valid point, though it is mainly used for the Omni Productions dub which is pretty foreign to anything close to English...or good.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:23, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::As we currently have it set up for English/Omni names, it looks like this:

*''English:'' '''Billy''' ([[Omni Productions]] dub), '''Blaster''' ([[Omni Productions]] dub Twincast)

While it seems pretty clear by having the Omni Productions note in parenthesis by the names, maybe it would look better like this?

*''English ([[Omni Productions]] dub):'' '''Billy''' (as Blaster), '''Blaster''' (as Twincast)

Is that better or worse or not even worth the effort? Personally, I don't have a dog in this race; I kinda think things are okay as-is. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 12:35, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:I was walking about the presence of "English" beneath a "Foreign names" header at all if the intended meaning of "Foreign names" is "non-English." So this isn't really addressing that? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:45, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::There isn't really any other good place for these names to go. Unless you want to elevate them to the level of legitimate English variants (like Hot Rod vs Rodimus Prime or Bluestreak vs Silverstreak). I would find it a lot more disturbing to see "Also known as Billy" in Blaster's intro. Oh, and I agree with Speng's new version of the listing. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:57, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::Okay, but then, what else could we call it? How else could we catalog that info? Should we put the Omni names at the top of the article alongside the "Sometimes he is known as..." notation at the bottom of the intro? I dunno if anybody would like that. I get what you're saying about having "English" under Foreign names when we default to English as a standard, but I'm not sure of a better way to catalog their Omni names aside from how we have it (English with Omni in parenthesis) (EDIT: Ah, Khajida beat me to the punch by 2 minutes). --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 12:59, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::I mean, I suppose just listing "Omni Productions Dub" without the word English next to it would read better? Or listing it's country of origin instead of language, rendering the meaning on "Foreign" as "non-American" rather than "non-English?" --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 13:05, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::The Omni dubs are a very strange situation, though, and probably not something we need to build a whole policy around. Surely if we have a working system in place that reads a little strange in this one case we don't need to revamp everything. We can make some kind of reasonable exception just for Omni and call it a day.--[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 13:39, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::Right. I think we're digressing from Kil's original complaint. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:38, 14 July 2016 (EDT)

== Striking Unit:E from the record ==

As someone who has been adding a bunch of pages for the newly introduced Hasbro properties that are part of IDW's Revolution, I think we're hitting a bit of a snag: Unit:E.
Unit:E was supposed to spin-out of Prime, which would put it in the Aligned continuity, while all the Revolution stuff is based in G1 continuity. As such, including info on both IDW Action Man and Unit:E Action Man on the same page doesn't make sense (especially when that page was built solely with IDW in mind.) However, this is a Transformers Wiki, and I don't think we need Action Man (IDW) and Action Man (Unit:E)
This kind of thing WILL spiral out of control, and will only get worse with things like G.I. Joe characters (who are all G1 based) and Micronauts (because Acroyear is so different between the two incarnations.)
As such, I propose that we set a precedent to excise ANY Unit:E-based material, with the exception of how it directly relates to the Transformers. Meaning the page on the actual group mentioned in Prime and the comic itself would stay, but unless Transformers were involved, the events aren't referenced. [[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 19:57 15 July 2016 (EST)
:Or we could just leave them on the same pages like we already are now. Don't overcomplicate things. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 20:27, 15 July 2016 (EDT)
::The way we handle non-Transformers original characters is to keep all appearances together on the same page. So, if Destro shows up in Animated, and again in G1, we don't make two articles. No need for an Action Man (Aligned) and an Action Man (G1) under this scheme. Having them on the same page is a simple and elegant solution. --[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 20:39, 15 July 2016 (EDT)
:::My issue with Unit:E is that none of the characters actually interact, and the multiversal nature of the story means that the Action Man featured there may not even have Transformers in his own universe, meaning his adventures would fall into the Megaverse, and thus outside this wiki's domain. The Unit:E information is therefore superfluous. Unit:E is also not a Transformers-branded piece of media. Notice we don't record the G.I. Joe events of Infestation. --[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 20:53 15 July 2015 (EST)
::::Because those issues do not have Transformers in them. Unit:E does, and I'm seriously having a hard time seeing the harm in detailing an one-shot issue that didn't amount to anything and that nobody else will cover. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 22:57, 15 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::The Unit:E stuff is G1 already though. Arcee, Jazz, Optimus Prime and Bumblebee are all seen as distinctly G1 incarnations of those characters. There isn't even a need to consider the fact that one spin-off is G1 and another is Aligned since that's not the case. --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron|talk]]) 00:40, 16 July 2016 (EDT)

== Aligned characters ==

[http://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/101932-tfwikinet-thread-30/page-247 As brought up here on the Allspark], is there any momentum to split the RiD2015 incarnations of characters such as [[Grimlock (WFC)]], [[Sideswipe (WFC)]], and [[Kickback (FOC)]]? A highly broken concept as it is, the Aligned continuity family does roughly fit together as one timeline. As the three aforementioned RiD characters quite obviously do not share the looks and personalities of the WfC/FoC characters, I, for one, do not see how to reconcile them as the WfC/FoC characters at a new stage of their lives. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 01:57, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
:Yeah, I've come around to the idea that they just don't have that much in common between names and altmodes (or, er, robot modes). I vote to split. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 04:52, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
::For the reasons I've laid out on the AllSpark and on Sideswipe (WFC)'s talk page, I also think they should be split. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 07:24, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
:::I also vote split. And just because I think this is a really useful way to conceptualize things, I want to repeat my formulation from the AllSpark thread:
::::''Let me present this little thought experiment. Let's say that the RID 15 guy was named "Trapjaw", an early name for Grimlock. Maybe for copyright reasons, maybe for creative reasons, we don't know specifically. Would we still be inclined to keep the pages merged? This is an issue that has been a part of the Transformers brand since 1984 (see: Jetfire and Skyfire, who do indeed share a page). Shockblasts comfortably share pages with Shockwaves, Silverstreaks with Bluestreaks, Jazzs with Meisters. Likewise, characters since G1 have shared names and yet not been the same characters: Sky High is the earliest example. In this case, take away the name, and is there any reason to keep them merged? If your answer to this question is no, then you should probably be in favor of a split. ''
:::I think this is an abstract enough test to be useful in a variety of cases where there is name reuse but little else. I've tested it against various counterexamples and (BW vs G1 Megatron, Octane and Tankor, various Unicron Trilogy Mini-Con nameslaps, toon vs comic Blaster) and it always seems to produce the 'correct' answer. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 09:52, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
::::This test is a fantastic measure and one I wholly advocate, but I'll note that this metric places ROTF and AOE Lockdown's merger on relatively shaky footing. Whether that's a good or bad thing is uncertain, but I'd say it's worth it to make sure these RID articles are split. [[User:Sky Shadow|Sky Shadow]] ([[User talk:Sky Shadow|talk]]) 08:29, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
[http://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/101932-tfwikinet-thread-30/?p=3302429 Spectre makes a good point here] about the distinctiveness of Grimlock and Sideswipe. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 21:26, 4 August 2016 (EDT)

So...absent any complaints or counter-arguments in the next 24 hours, I say we go ahead and begin splitting these three characters. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 10:38, 5 August 2016 (EDT)
:As much as my vote matters, I agree with splitting them. [[User:Stealthyboy|Stealthyboy]] ([[User talk:Stealthyboy|talk]]) 13:04, 5 August 2016 (EDT)

So far what I'm getting from the Allspark thread is that it's highly subjective whether anyone thinks FOC Grimlock and RID Grimlock should share a page because they're both based on G1 Grimlock, or whether the differences between the two characters are enough that they should get separate pages. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 19:37, 5 August 2016 (EDT)
: Really? I got the sense that there was one guy that really thought they should be together, several people that really thought they should be separate, and a few people who seemed on the fence. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 23:19, 5 August 2016 (EDT)
:: '''Keep''' them merged. Any argument for splitting them is either arbitrary and could be applied to numerous other characters ([[Brawl (Movie)]], [[Vortex (Movie)]], [[Sideswipe (Movie)]], [[Swerve (Movie)]], [[Hound (Movie)]] and [[Lockdown (ROTF)]], to name a few), or based on [[authorial intent]].--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 09:02, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
::: None of those guys have the same problem of irreconcilable fiction and lots of it, and none of them right now have new material coming up on a regular basis. (The only big issue there is Brawl because Titan went "oh uh it's twins" and in practice that's been easy to skim over) --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 14:52, 6 August 2016 (GMT)
::::Yeah, if we'd got any significant fiction for Movie 1 Hound or ROTF Lockdown, I'd argue that they should be split. Hell, I'm still not convinced that the Lockdowns should share a page, but I'm flexible on that. Most of the ones you've brought up, I would think should share a page only because they ''both'' are based on the same vague concept ''and'' don't have large amounts of fiction in contradictory incarnations. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 11:49, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
:::::I would be up for splitting Brawl, Vortex, Sideswipe, etc though I think it would be unnecessary give how little material their non-screen versions received. But we already have [[Jetfire (Movie)]] and [[Jetfire (ROTF)]] split despite the former having no fiction whatsoever. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 12:49, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
::::::I think, fundamentally, what it comes down to me is: ''will splitting help casual fans to understand better/stop them being confused?'' In the case of RID Grimlock, Sideswipe, and probably Kickback, I think that yes, it would. With Movie Hound and Sideswipe and Vortex, there's very little understanding that would be improved by doing so, and would likely just confuse fans searching for "movie Hound", etc. In the case of the Lockdowns, they're arguably the same character by virtue of Q-Transformers, though that's obviously kinda shaky. (And splitting Brawl would be the most unnecessary pedantry in the whole world, damn.) --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 15:14, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

:: I'd vote to keep them merged, with the stipulation that we add a note of some kind explaining the discrepancy. [[User:Grum|Grum]] ([[User talk:Grum|talk]]) 09:02, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

::Split. They're wildly different characters with no visual similarity and aren't based on the same toy (WFC Grimlock not even originally from a toy!) and it means anyone browsing to look up RID Grimlock, the one they most likely will be, atm has to get through a lot of different Grimlock. --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 14:46, 6 August 2016 (GMT)

A lot of what I'm hearing from the "Keep them merged" crowd is that they don't think some of the reasons for splitting are good reasons. Let me flip it around for a minute -- can anyone think of a ''benefit'' to keeping these characters merged? Besides a slippery-slope argument that it may, someday in the future, be used to justify other splits? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 10:03, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

Split. They're very different characters. And there's no conflict between Hasbro statements and author intent here; the most relevant Hasbro statement is the one that would indicate that FoC and RiD do take place in the same timeline, in which case there can be no "different interpretation of the same characters" between them; characters who cannot be the actual same individual at different times in the same timeline therefore must be different ones with the same name. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 15:02, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

Can I vote that there should be no blanket policy here, to just evaluate on a case-by-case basis? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 16:33, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
: Absolutely, and seconded. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 16:45, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

So I count '''Split: 10''' (Xaaron, SHIELD Agent 47, Charles RB, Jim S, Riptide, Sky Shadow, Stealthyboy, NovaSaber, abates, Sabrblade), '''Keep: 2''' (Nevermore, Grum), with no guiding hand from Admin/Owners. Can we go ahead with splitting these three characters, with the understanding that no larger administrative policy is being established, and future cases should still be evaluated on an individual basis? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 10:42, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
:I mentioned it on the Allspark, but I don't have any particularly strong preference so long it's applied consistently for all the applicable Aligned characters, and not just Grimlock. I do kind of question the sense in still treating Aligned like it's still a single timeline under Squint Test rules, since it seems reasonably certain, between RID Grimlock's existence and the departure of Hasbro folks like Archer, that that concept has been thrown out the window. But I also feel like splitting these characters has benefits in terms of accessibility for the casual user, and I guess that's why I'm not going to vote against – I think I probably would if it felt entirely like meaningless "furniture rearrangement" (as Sipher puts it). I think it's worth putting out one final call for people to 'vote' on the Allspark thread before going ahead with the split. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 11:19, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
::Also, as a postscript: if the splits do go ahead, links will need updating pretty hasty-like, or else there'll be a hell of a lot of potential for confusion. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 11:26, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
:::Relinked episodes 1-12 and the main RID series page so far. Moving on to the non-show relinks now. --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 02:00, 8 August 2016 (GMT)
::::Every image and linked-to non-TV-story on Grim's page has been relinked, plus the RID toyline page. Just the rest of the eps and other character's pages to go--[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 02:30, 8 August 2016 (GMT)
:::::Eps and main Autobots relinked--[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 02:50, 8 August 2016 (GMT)
::::::I think I've got all of the remaining articles, so there's just a pile of images with links to the wrong Grimlock in their descriptions. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 07:11, 8 August 2016 (EDT)
:Throwing my vote in while I still can. I said it on The Allspark an will say it here that I'm in favor of splitting the Grimlock, Sideswipe, and Kickback articles. Although... [[Blurr (Prime)]] might be a fourth contender for splitting as well, but I'm not as eager to see that one split as the other three, so I won't fight for that one as much if enough people object to splitting the Blurr page. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 14:27, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
::Hrm. Yeah, I'd say split the Blurrs, too. They've really only got "car what goes fast" in common, and really, what ''else'' is a bot called Blurr going to turn into? With that one in particular, they're so different that there's no way to reconcile them for an opening paragraph other than the faux-narrative of "first he was this, then he was this". --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:38, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
:I'm actually in favour of split. Not sure I'm particularly worried about Kickback, but Grimlock and Sideswipe definitely. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 18:34, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
Starting on Sideswipe now. Though, come to think of it, is it necessary to title ''Robots in Disguise'' Sideswipe at "Sideswipe (RID 2015)" since the 2001 guy has a space in his name? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 11:15, 8 August 2016 (EDT)
::No, strictly speaking it wouldn't need the 2015, though it's probably a case where an argument could be made for making an exception? [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 12:36, 8 August 2016 (EDT)

== Generations toyline page ==

A thought: do the ''Combiner Wars'' and ''Titans Return'' sublines merit their own pages? The [[Transformers: Generations|''Generations'' page]] has exceeded the length of even the [[The Transformers (toyline)|U.S. G1 toyline page]], and barring some unforeseen financial disaster at Hasbro, we know that the Prime Wars Trilogy will get another entry after ''Titans Return''. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 16:28, 14 August 2016 (EDT)
:I agree. Given how the "''Combiner Wars''" and "''Titans Return''" names overshadow the "''Generations''" name on the packaging, I think we should give them their own page. The fact that each also has a [[Combiner Wars (franchise)|franchise]] [[Titans Return (franchise)|page]] I think warrants this expansion. --[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 18:20, 14 August 2016 (EDT)
:I'm on board with that.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 06:27, 15 August 2016 (EDT)
::Given that Combiner Wars, Titans Return and the next line are under the "Prime Wars" umbrella, maybe we should make a Prime Wars subpage for Generations, similar to the way certain character pages have a separate Toys page, and put the toys in those three lines on that page.[[User:Stealthyboy|Stealthyboy]] ([[User talk:Stealthyboy|talk]]) 17:10, 18 August 2016 (EDT)
Anyone in opposition to this motion? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 00:09, 21 August 2016 (EDT)
:Splitting is probably the least unwieldy option, or will be eventually, so I don't see why not. [[User:Item42|Item42]] ([[User talk:Item42|talk]]) 00:32, 21 August 2016 (EDT)
I'd been considering this myself for a while. My suggestion, I guess, would be splitting it three ways, by logo/branding - original, FOC/T30, and Prime Wars. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 04:45, 21 August 2016 (EDT)
:I think the original Deluxe line, FoC, and T30 can all stay on the same Generations page since their packaging has "Transformers: Generations" as the main thing. I'd even argue splitting up Combiner Wars and Titans Return into their own pages given that (as far as I know) Prime Wars wasn't mentioned on their toy packaging. --[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 11:55, 21 August 2016 (EDT)
::Of course the argument "size of the logo on the packaging" opens a whole can of worms again regarding ''[[Reveal the Shield]]'', which we currently consider a [[subline imprint]] of [[Transformers (2010 toyline)|''Transformers'' (2010)]]… Long story short, the title "Reveal the Shield" on the packaging has the same size and font and all as the concurrently available original ''[[Transformers: Generations|Generations]]'' Deluxe line's title (seriouly, just judging from the packaging alone, [http://imgur.com/a/Mhhjr how is the right one a toy line and the left one only a subline imprint]?)… on the other hand, all the ''Reveal the Shield'' assortments were continued from the 2010 ''Transformers'' line's general retail assortments ([http://imgur.com/B2YWKYd same assortment numbers]), which were simpy branded ''Transformers'' with additional stickers for the ''[[Hunt for the Decepticons]]'' promotion and Jesus Christ on a bicycle 2010's branding was confusing as hell.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 15:34, 22 August 2016 (EDT)
:::''Combiner Wars'' and ''Titans Return'', though, are subline imprints with noteworthy fiction due to their status as multimedia branding. If and when I get to separating out the toylines into their own articles, I believe I will focus on those two. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 23:40, 25 August 2016 (EDT)

== Masterforce humans and transtectors ==

Um, why are we separating the human Minerva, Ginrai, etc. from the robot Minerva, Ginrai, etc? Especially considering that we just fairly recently combined the organic Nebulan Peacemaker (et al.) and the robotic Peaceman (et al.). --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:39, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
:Well, it's not really a comparable situation to Peacemaker and co. - this is robot and human versions of the same character co-existing together in the same world, not a character being variably robot or human in different universes. With new fiction (and probably more to come) of the humans and robots off doing separate stuff, splitting them out is probably the solution that leads to the least-confusing biography write-ups... [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 12:46, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
::We already did this almost two years ago for [[Shūta Gō]] and [[Goshooter]] when they appeared simultaneously in order to keep track of them better. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 12:49, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
:::What Jalaguy said. Otherwise we get alternating paragraphs of human and robot Minerva fiction which only confuse readers. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 16:16, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
::::Should their toys be split onto subpages as well then? It seems redundant to have exactly the same section on both pages.[[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 17:10, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
:::::They're not that long and they don't have the exact same set of toys. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 17:14, 30 August 2016 (EDT)

==Bios by Universal Stream==
For characters like Jhiaxus who have totally different personalities, I think we should have individual bios placed above their fiction. Though we do note that certain characters have wildly different portrayals, we never really explain their personality, simply listing what happens in their fictional appearances. This could also count for locations as well. For example, Cybertron is a very different planet in several continuities, yet we don't usually have individual descriptions of each version. Currently we (for the most part) only list the history of the planet, not its defining physical characteristics. I'm not talking about a long bio, just a few sentences to clarify the differences with its other versions. Does anyone else agree? --[[User:Halfshell25|Halfshell25]] 12:31, 04 September 2016 (EDT)

== Titan Master toy info accessibility ==

To account for ''Titans Return'' Titan Masters whose names and personalities match the large classic dudes instead of the small classic dudes they tend to physically resemble, I have added links in the 1980s Nebulans' toy sections pointing to the large guy's ''Titans Return'' toys. How does everyone feel about this? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 22:23, 8 September 2016 (EDT)
:Sounds good to me. I was going to put the full entries on their pages, but this probably works better. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 06:57, 9 September 2016 (EDT)
::Personalities? I am intrigued. How do you know what their personalities are? There are no bios or anything. - [[User:Gimmick|Gimmick]] ([[User talk:Gimmick|talk]]) 18:18, 9 September 2016 (EDT)
:::Haven't you seen the packaging backsides? Or the [[Titans Return: The Power of the Titan Masters|available on the Internet catalog]]? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 19:25, 9 September 2016 (EDT)
::::I know about the catalog bios, but the single-packed Titan Masters really don't have bios anywhere on their package. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 20:28, 9 September 2016 (EDT)
:::::Yeah, the single-packed TMs don't have their bios on their packaging, just in the storybook/catalogue and on their Hasbro.com listings. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 08:02, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
::::::I haven't read the Comic-Con storybook, but thanks for the heads up on the Hasbro.com bios. The Wiki could probably say more about that. Although I think I would rather not have known that some Titan Masters have their big-guy personality just because in the real life universe, their toy was packaged individually. Personal canon: Titan Master Fangry's superpower is that he comes with Google Maps preinstalled. - [[User:Gimmick|Gimmick]] ([[User talk:Gimmick|talk]]) 10:49, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
:Should the same system be used for [[Emissary (Generations)|Emissary]] on [[Spike_Witwicky_(G1)|Spike]] and [[Galen Kord|Galen's]] pages? At the moment the full entry for Emissary is on Spike's page with nothing on Galen's, even though the G1 toy is on both. [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 07:06, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
::Emissary is designed to look like Spike and Galen's armor, though. That's more in common than there is between the single Titan Masters and their corresponding Nebulans, who basically have "turns into the same head" as the only reason to associate them. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 14:59, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I suppose, but there are a lot of toys that look very similar to a previous character but aren't on their page. [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 11:34, 12 September 2016 (EDT)

== Add links to uploaded videos of episodes in the articles for episodes? ==

I have been watching the G1 on dailymotion and all thanks to this wiki, I just check the list of episodes and look for it in a couple of chosen favorite channels.
I thought that maybe it'd be cool if we could simply add links to the episodes in the articles themselves?

As a bonus, we could also form a team and:
* Set up our own channel.
* Collect the best quality versions of the episodes from various sources.
* Link to those videos in the articles. --[[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 03:20, 14 September 2016 (EDT)
:Nope. The wiki is ''not'' going to endorse piracy. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 03:28, 14 September 2016 (EDT)
::That would give Hasbro a nice, easy reason to shut the wiki down, which is not what we're after. When it's all out for purchase, it's not fair to them to put it up illegally. [[User:AkibaSilver|AkibaSilver]] ([[User talk:AkibaSilver|talk]]) 08:31, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:Christ no. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 15:25, 15 September 2016 (EDT)

== Animation/continuity errors ==

Hey, this is just a little thing - I'm not proposing anything, just mentioning this with a view to moving forward, but I really dislike how on episode pages we put errors first. I get why, it's a carryover from our G1 episode pages being some of the first things we ever did, and errors being perhaps the most famous, most catalogue-able thing about that series. But it's an out-of-place, and frankly I think demeaning, thing to have as the first entry for an average modern cartoon episode when there's plenty of other, more "relevant" information to provide ahead of mistakes. We don't do it for comics, and I don't like it on episodes either. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 14:06, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'd say go ahead and make a proposal to change it. You have my vote behind you. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 14:49, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'm beyond okay with this and absolutely in favor of making this a broad-scale change to existing pages. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 15:13, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:Yup, also very much behind this. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 15:21, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:If we're re-ordering anyway, does anyone else think it would be more informative to "continuity errors" always follow "continuity notes" for episodes that have both, even if it means "continuity errors" is no longer consecutive with "animation and technical errors"? [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 15:51, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
::I wouldn't be adverse to making the errors a subset of notes, really. I mean, a continuity error IS technically a note about continuity. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 16:05, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I'm not sure, with modern shows, that we even ''need'' separate sections for "continuity errors" and "animation errors." Again, with G1 - yes, we did, because there were so many. But such things are so rare now that a simple "Errors" section seems like all we need to everything effectively.
::::Ehn, I feel like keeping all the continuity bits together, be they complimentary or clashing, makes more sense than lumping the continuity-clashes with "someone forgot to texture that panel in that one shot". --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 16:15, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
::I agree. Although, personally, I don't see a reason to bundle it up under one "Errors" heading. As a reader, I would like them to be under relevant headings. --[[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 14:29, 18 September 2016 (EDT)

== Japanese UT character disambig tags ==

Would anyone object to me simplifying the tags "(Micron Densetsu)", "(Super Link)", and "(Galaxy Force)" for Japanese-original Unicron Trilogy characters with such tags down to just "(MD)", "(SL)", and "(GF)"? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 00:48, 20 September 2016 (EDT)
:Go for it! --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 01:09, 20 September 2016 (EDT)

== RID/G1 character merges ==

What with the steadily increasing numbers of RID 2001 characters imported into Generation 1 based continuities with basically no differences, I feel like we should probably just merge their G1 counterparts into the RID pages and be done with it, especially with the blurred lines of Car Robots involved; we're already doing so for Wind Sheer and Skyfire. This would (probably) mean merging the following pages:
* Bruticus (CR) into [[Bruticus (RID)]]
* [[Cryotek (Universe)]] into [[Cryotek (RID)]]
* Dark Scream (G1) into [[Dark Scream]]
* Emissary (BW) into [[Emissary (RID)]]
* Gigatron (G1) into [[Megatron (RID)]]
* [[Jhiaxus (RID)]] into [[Jhiaxus (G2)]]
* Side Burn (G1) into [[Side Burn (RID)]] (arguable)
* Sky-Byte (G2) into [[Sky-Byte (RID)]]
* Slapper (Universe) into [[Slapper (RID)]]
* And probably [[Predacon (RID)]] into [[Predacon (BW)]] as well; the latter kind of needs a more continuity-neutral reformat anyway.
I just feel like all these fairly arbitrary splits for guys who are intended to be ''pretty much'' the same characters, coupled with the explanatory blocks of text about Japanese G1 continuity, is making this more complicated than it needs to be. Thoughs? --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 11:54, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:Yup. About time too. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 12:04, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'm down. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 12:11, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:[[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive60#Probably an unpopular thought, but...|Always been for it.]] I'm not sure if I'm on board with Hasbro-original characters like Jhiaxus and Cryotek, but I'll accept them if it means the CR guys get merged. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 12:21, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:Oppose. RID is not only a separate continuity, but also a separate multiversal stream. To start merging these characters just because they're broadly similar doesn't really make sense. After all, ''Animated'' [[Ransack (Animated)|Ransack]] and [[Crumplezone (Animated)|Crumplezone]] are practically identical in personality and design to their ''Cybertron'' counterparts, but we acknowledge them as separate distinct entities. And characters imported into G1 like Sky-Byte have shown up in three different continuities. Would this also mean ''Universe'' [[Ratchet (Universe)|Ratchet]] gets folded in with G1 [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]]? Plus, this could lead to confusion by someone wondering "Why isn't all the info about Fire Truck Optimus with Old Optimus?" I think by this point we're long past merging RID and G1 in any form other than the brief "in Japan, this cartoon is G1 because dumb reasons." --[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 12:47, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::The difference between G1 and RID is inherently different to the difference between G1 and Animated because of Car Robots. People wouldn't wonder why RID Optimus wasn't with G1 Optimus because they have distinct designs and personalities, and have existed in the same continuity. We already have different incarnations of the same character from separate continuity families sharing pages, so it's not like this is going to start a slippery slope. (And no, Universe and G1 Ratchet would not be merged, for the same reason that RID and G1 Prowl would not be merged.) --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 13:02, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:::The only slippery slope involved here is the one we're already sliding down that involves more and more RID characters appearing in G1 stories that makes this a more plausible action to take. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:06, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:::Except this wiki has always used the American-based fiction as it's primary source, where RID is separate from everything. And even Car Robots being G1 is the result of a freaking RETCON. I'd even argue that any characters who do have multiple continuities on their page be split (though the only examples that come to mind are former Multiversal Singularities like Unicron or Vector Prime, which were only created that way ''because'' they were multiversal singularities.)

:::Also, If I end up getting out voted on this, I'd at least like to argue against merging Side Burn, Jhiaxus, and GIgatron/Megatron. Because G1 Side Burn does differ from RID in a few notable ways (most notably NOT being brother to a guy named Prowl), Jhiaxus is more of a repurposing, and not only is there already a Megatron in the IDW comics, there's a Gigatron in the Animated universe that is also based on RID Megs. And if we're merging BW Bruticus into RID Bruticus, we'd also have to merge TF 2010 Backstop, Underbite, and Wreckloose in with their Cybertron counterparts. All in all, this seems like it's becoming more of a headache than just keeping them separate.--[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 14:41, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::::This is kind of a weird string of complaints that don't really logically bear on anything. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:17, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'd be fine with this. Certainly seems preferable to weird crap like Sky-Byte having Japanese G1 fiction on one article and Hasbro G1 fiction on another. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]])
:I agree with the general idea and most of the examples, but I'd say Jhiaxus isn't really the same situation as the rest. I'm not sure about the factions either. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 14:45, 21 September 2016 (EDT)

Some other stuff that could stand to be merged:
*Hound (RID) into [[Hound (G1)]]
*Sky Lynx (RID) into [[Sky Lynx (G1)]]
*Teletraan I (RID) into Teletraan I (G1)
Mmmmmmaybe [[Alpha Trion (RID)]]? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 13:38, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:Three "CHRIST YES"es, and a "hmnnn." - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:41, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:For what it's worth, [[Ultra Trion]]'s "Trion" bits do sure look like they came off of G1 A3... --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:15, 21 September 2016 (EDT)

How do we feel about the likes of [[Ransack (IDW)|Ransack]]? Could he stand to be merged into his ''Cybertron'' page? --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee|talk]]) 15:22, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:Eh, hang on I think I'm caught up now. Without ''Car Robots'' there's no link to G1 so he's a separate character unlike the RID guys. Is that right? --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee|talk]]) 15:27, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::Yeah, that's a separate discussion (and a merge I'd disagree with, but let's focus on the RID guys for now). [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:35, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I agree that they should be merged except Jhiaxus.--[[User:Primestar3|Primestar3]] ([[User talk:Primestar3|talk]]) 15:38, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:I think I'd be against merging anyone from different continuity families other than between G1/BW and RiD. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 15:55, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::That seems to be a reasonable rule of thumb. --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee|talk]]) 16:09, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::To be honest, I'd be kind of inclined to merge the BWU Micromaster/Mini-Con repurposings as well, just because both iterations of the characters are so insignificant, and AVP seemed to make a point of having a lot of Mini-Cons exist across continuity families... but that's a separate argument and one with no real solid logic behind it. In this particular instance, yes, leave it as G1 and RID. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 16:16, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
I'm not sure exactly what position to take, but I would say that Hasbro-original characters are somewhat different from the guys who share a CR/RiD cartoon narrative. Thus, I think RiD Alpha Trion should be looked at the same way as RiD Optimus Prime and RiD Ultra Magnus. And to add to the list of pages up for consideration:
*Plasma into [[Cerebros (RID)]]
Also, I note that the one-off text mention of IDW G1 Side Burn. Anyone know if that iteration is tied to RiD 2001 Side Burn or is an independent conception? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 16:32, 21 September 2016 (EDT)

So should we merge Cryotek and Jhiaxus? I opposed it back when because there was no real reason to while we had the others split, but now I think that it's a close enough situation that they should be merged, even if they don't have Car Robots equivalents; it's still "RID guy is used in a G1 universe". (Plus, Bruticus only has a "Car Robots" counterpart because of AVP fiction, so merging him solely on that basis while leaving the other Hasbro-originals separate feels overly nitpicky.) --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 09:02, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
:I feel like Jhiaxus is more "RID Optimus Prime and G1 Optimus Prime"—he would have had his article all along if it wasn't for 3H saying it was the original Jhiaxus. I admit I don't have an argument for Cryotek. Just preference. If you want to merge them, *shrug* [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 09:16, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
::I think they should remain separate. RiD Cryotek and Jhiaxus had independent Viron existences in the first place due to their toys, and I think their personalities are distinct. That their toys were repurposed is like ''Prime'' Ratchet's design getting repurposed in G1 for that X-Files Hearts of Steel story. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 10:33, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I think, at least in the case of Jhiaxus, "distinct personality" doesn't matter that much, because he's never been consistent. Really, I just think it's neater to have them together if the other RID characters are, especially since they both predate recent official repurposing trends; 3H's thinking was probably "Cryotek is Cryotek"/"Jhiaxus is Jhiaxus". --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 10:39, 22 September 2016 (EDT)

Wait, better argument: we're already keeping the Hasbro-original, toyline-only characters Skyfire and Wind Sheer merged across continuity families, and it'd be patently silly to split them out. I don't want to argue for consistency above all things, but in this matter, I think it'd be a good idea. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 12:42, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
:Okay, I do not necessarily agree, but I can see a case to be made that similarly to Wind Sheer and Skyfire, Cryotek is a Hasbro RiD-original guy who was extended into G1. But that does not apply to Jhiaxus. G2 Jhiaxus existed by himself for a decade before the independent RiD toy came along. RiD Jhiaxus by our policies and by logic should remain an independent page. Otherwise, we should merge ''Prime'' Ratchet into G1 Ratchet's page. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 04:20, 23 September 2016 (EDT)
::Really? Because his page only got built when I mentioned his name in Ask Vector Prime as a continuity patch as far as I know. That hardly seems like a cut-and-dried case. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 07:41, 23 September 2016 (EDT)
:::Yeah, I think that the fact that for a decade and a half the ''only'' use of RID Jhiaxus was as the G2 character makes it more fair to fudge categorization for the sake of consistency. Plus, as I said, G2 Jhiaxus is already both "tyrannical leader" and "sycophantic scientist"; is "dedicated, loyal lieutenant" that much of a step away? (Hell, you could even look at it as a halfway point between the two...)

:I disagree. One of the things I like about this wiki, is the fact that every continuity get's its own share of articles. And RID and G1 are not even part of the same continuity family. I don't see why it's even being considered and agreed to. Also, they weren't just different families, but RID is a japanese cartoon.
:You say that there are virtually no differences, so I assume that they look identical to their G1 counterparts, but what about the story? Take hound for example. I haven't watched the cartoon so I don't know, but if he didn't get a redesign, does that mean that he wasn't relevant to the story either? If that is the case, then I guess it won't kill to merge.
:And why would you want to merge the Predacon(BW) with Predacon(RID)? The BW Predacons came after the decepticons, and are rather like their descendants or successors, while in RID, the decepticons are like a really small sub-group of the Predacons. That alone, I believe shows that it makes no sense to merge the two. --[[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 09:44, 24 September 2016 (EDT)
::Surely that's more of an argument for splitting the Decepticons, then? I think if the Autobots and Decepticons are broadly similar enough across continuities to have only one page for each, the same's true of the BW/RID Predacons. (The Prime Predacons have a different insignia, story role and altmodes, so they wouldn't be merged.) --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 12:14, 24 September 2016 (EDT)
:::Let's compare the two, shall we?
:::Similarities:
:::* Both evil.
:::* Both led by a Megatron.
:::* Both transform into animals.
:::* Terrorize.
:::* Logo.

:::Differences:
:::* The RID Predacons have a long lasting enmity with Autobots while the BW Predacons have it with the Maximals.
:::* The BW Predacons were descended or derived from the Decepticons, while in RID, the Decepticons were a subgroup of the Predacons.
:::* Predacon Council vs Tripedacus Council
:::* The RID Predacons are rougly the same size as the Autobots while the average BW Predacons are smaller than Prime's head.
:::* Virtually no similarity at all between the story.
:::* Not a single common character. Megatron doesn't count (also he seems closer to the G1 Megatron than the Beast Megatron.)--[[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 11:14, 2 October 2016 (EDT)
::Hound wasn't ''in'' the RiD cartoon; or toyline, for that matter. Some guy who looks like Hound just had a small role in a convention story whose continuity family wasn't even confirmed until Ask Vector Prime said it was a "Viron" universe. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 12:06, 24 September 2016 (EDT)

== National Toy Hall of Fame nomination ==

The Transformers toyline is 1 of 12 nominees (2 or 3 will be inducted) to the [[wikipedia:National_Toy_Hall_of_Fame|National Toy Hall of Fame]], according to http://www.toyhalloffame.org/2016-finalists (which uses as an illustration the most prominent and sought-after of all Transformers, [[Topspin_(G1)#Generation_1|G1 Topspin]]).

On the http://www.toyhalloffame.org/ main page (which uses a [http://www.tfu.info/1986/Autobot/Metroplex/metroplex.htm G1 Metroplex] with broken/missing parts as an illustration) visitors can vote for their favorite nominee.

i feel like this is relevant to the wiki, but i'm not sure where to put it. Possibly a new article for the National Toy Hall of Fame? (Maybe also under Notes/Trivia in Topspin's and Metroplex's articles?)

--[[User:Rhymus|Rhymus]] ([[User talk:Rhymus|talk]]) 03:35, 26 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'm not sure about a page for the National Toy Hall of Fame (for comparison, we don't have pages for the museums that have G1 Grimlock or G1 Slag in their exhibits), but mentioning it on the pages of those two individuals sounds good. I would also recommend a mention on the [[Transformers brand]] page, as this concerns Transformers as a toy concept.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 07:04, 26 September 2016 (EDT)

== Easter eggs and homages ==

We usually try to point out Easter eggs and homages [http://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Nook&diff=1125477&oldid=1125466 such] [http://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Roboid&diff=1125475&oldid=1125465 as] [http://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Equinoid&diff=1124708&oldid=1120461 these], don't we?

--[[User:Rhymus|Rhymus]] ([[User talk:Rhymus|talk]]) 03:40, 26 September 2016 (EDT)
:Yeah, I think the fact that one of the Roboids looks like Nook should be pointed out on one or both of those pages. However, I wouldn't call the Equinoids MLP homages unless they're identifiable as based on specific ones, which I don't think is the case. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 13:48, 26 September 2016 (EDT)

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2016-10-02T17:07:28Z

Furhun:

__NEWSECTIONLINK__

This is the place for discussion of topics that affect the entire wiki. Some topics that would ordinarily be here have merited their own pages:

{{chapters|title=Specific Discussion Subjects|align=left|content=
<div class="list-header">'''Moving From Wikia:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving|Arriving]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving|Leaving]]
* [[Transformers Wiki:Community Portal/Complaints|Complaints]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''New Ad Policy:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki:Ads|Ads]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Bookworm Database-Crash:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central|Damage Control Central]]
* [[Project:Bookworm Crash]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving2|Leaving Take 2]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Server Move:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving2|Arriving Take 2]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Relicensing:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Relicensing|Relicensing]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Dealing With Vandalism:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Vandalism|Vandalism]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''GoBots Sister Wiki:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/GoBots|Discussion on the place of GoBots in this wiki]]
<br/> <div class="list-header">'''Wiki Technical Information:'''</div>
* [[Transformers_Wiki:Tech|A Not So Brief Summary of the Horrible Things That McFly and Co. Have Done To Keep This Wiki From Melting Down]]
}}<br/>

{{:{{FULLPAGENAMEE}}/Archive}}


== IDW Revolution ==

So the preview for ''Rom'' #1 shows the EDC in it and we can probably expect more of this sort of thing. This could be a problem for recording stuff, since the EDC is a Transformers concept but if it becomes a ''Rom'' one too, we technically need to put a lot of Rom storylinks here.

So should we do a rule that it has to be ''specifically'' a Transformer appearing to get covered, and otherwise we'll put it in Notes ("the EDC also shoot Rom!!")? --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 17:17, 7 June 2016 (GMT)

:I think the closest thing we have to an existing standard is [[Unfoldings!|G.I. Joe #138]], a comic that is not an identified crossover with Transformers and contains the most minor of guest-appearances inside. The full issue is summarized on this site, and details of that issue appear in the fiction section of every character, even ones like [[Wild Bill]] who had no contact with Transformers whatsoever for the story.

:Beyond that "standard", though, you're right that we will need to establish a rule for when Hasbro/IDW Universe stories are covered. Only when Transformers appear in the issue? Transformers characters? Transformers concepts? If Blackrock appears in MASK #3, do we cover that issue based on that alone? What if there's also a one-panel flashback of Blackrock with Galvatron? Do we cover it then? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 12:50, 7 June 2016 (EDT)

::My two cents. If it's not a piece of Transformers fiction, it generally only gets mentioned in the notes, even if a nominally-TF character appears. Major characters (you can decide who fits) can tip the scales, and situations like GI Joe #138 get included because that issue is essential to understanding issue #139 (where the crossover is first explicitly mentioned, but where the action is already well in play as the issue opens, and #138 is necessary to understand how we got there. Note also that a major TF character appears in #138, if only briefly). These general guidelines should be able to suffice for the most part. --[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] ([[User talk:G.B. Blackrock|talk]]) 13:32, 7 June 2016 (EDT)

:::Disagree on #138. It's completely unnecessary for understanding #139 ("Megatron is attacking the castle!" is pretty clearly conveyed by the splash page), and it actually ''confuses'' the situation, since the shadowy conversation in #138 is ignored or outright contradicted later in the story.

:::But regardless, that brings us back around to "What's a major character?" Only Transformers? Pre-IDW humans like Fairborne, Spike, and Blackrock as well? Jimmy Pink and Jones? What if Battle Force 2000 encounters the Enigma of Combination? What if MASK travels to Cybertron, but no identifiable Transformers appear? I realize a lot of these questions can't be answered until it happens, but some idea where everyone sits on the matter should be established ahead of time, if we can. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 13:46, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::If it's not an explicit and branded crossover we should have minimal coverage. If an actual Transformer shows up in another book, we cover his appearance but that's it. 138 is probably covered in too much detail already. Transformers concepts and settings and human companions appearing in other books are notes. --[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 14:15, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::I think if a Transformer or other Clearly A Transformers-Franchise Character like Blackrock, Marissa, Spike, etc. shows up in another title's issue, than that issue should get fully covered as a crossover regardless of "branding." A TF-originated ''concept'', however, like the EDC, putting in an appearance probably doesn't need to be more than a note somewhere. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 14:49, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::No. We don't cover every Marvel Comics issue Death's Head's shown up in following his departure from the TF universe. And before you "WELL ACTUALLY" me, he's only not a Fully Legal Transformers Character on the most petty of technicalities. He was made to be a Transformers character and given a legal out to be used elsewhere without paying Hasbro.<br>
::::::AT MOST, non-Transformers books should be lumped together in a fiction section on the franchise in question's page. Personally I have grave doubts as to just how much character bleed there actually will be, as well as how long any of these titles are even going to ''last''. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 15:03, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::WELL ACTUALLY another difference there is that, like you said, Death's Head ''departed'' the TF universe. He was taken away from the TF franchise and given to Marvel-at-large. This has not happened with say, Marissa Fairborn, who is still a Transformers character. Her "home title" is still The Transformers. A hypothetical Marissa Fairborn guest appearance in an issue of M.A.S.K. is, IMO, just as much of a TF crossover as an appearance of, say, Cosmos or Soundwave would be. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 15:22, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::::Which should still be relegated to a singular fiction section on the not-Transformers franchise page. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 15:41, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::But the fact that that legal out was ''created'' would, I think, make him a Marvel-by-way-of-Transformers character. He may have been ''created'' for Transformers, but he was also created to be ''used'' outside Transformers. Plus, uh, what Kil said.
:::::::My proposal: only issues with Transformers in get their own pages; any other appearances of TF characters and concepts go on a single page for the whole franchise/comic. Doesn't leave anything out, but also doesn't overstep the wiki's bounds. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 15:44, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::::Death's Head's legal reality is exactly why he's in those non-Transformers stories in the first place; I don't think he's a good example. I think sticking to things that cannot exist out of a ''Transformers'' context (i.e. the Enigma of Combination, Optimus Prime, etc.) is a okay baseline. The EDC can always serve as a generic "defense against aggressive aliens" organization independent of Transformers, but things like the Matrix can't. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:56, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::Transformers get full writeups and bestow full writeup coverage on the issues in which they appear. TF-originating non-TF characters and concepts (Spike, EDC, the Enigma, cosmic rust) get very brief mentions within the main bodies of their articles, in proper chronological order in the IDW Fiction sections, with storylinks properly annotated; these storylinks would be redirected to the main non-TF-franchise comic page. IE "storylink|ROM #6" just goes to the ROM comic. ROM (character) does not have any of his own adventures chronicled ever except when he's doing it right next to a Transformer, regardless of title. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 19:11, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::"Transformers get full writeups and bestow full writeup coverage on the issues in which they appear." No. A one-panel cameo does not mean we write up the entire issue as its own article. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 19:34, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::We've got full pages for the non-Transformers Infestation comics and Unit:E, just putting that out there. It's not like covering issues in which Transformers appear is going to lead to people insisting we cover the entirety of okay actually I may be giving the average wiki user too much credit --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 19:46, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::::I'd much rather just lose the full page coverage for Unit E and non-TF Infestation than start giving it to all these new comics. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep|talk]]) 19:49, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::BINGO. It's not before anymore. We live in a very different world than when a lot of this wiki's "standards" were crafted. What worked when TFs was a healthy-yet-niche franchise, perhaps not so much now that it's being used as a tentpole for a lot of other things. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 20:27, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::Disagreed, I guess. I feel like if it's a book by a Hasbro licensee using their Transformers license to use Transformers in the story, it doesn't particularly matter what the name on the book is. Sure, if it's, like, a 1-panel flashback or something we wouldn't even mention otherwise, we can leave it out, but if they have a bigger role, it shouldn't need "The Transformers" on the cover to get a writeup. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:23, 8 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::I'm down with "Transformers get full writeups and bestow full writeup coverage on the issues in which they appear", with the caveat of "except when it's a minor cameo" (i.e. not Megatron showing up in Joe #138 as he's the cliffhanger but like how Nick Fury's making a cameo in TF #3 to go "look this guy's paying attention). Anything else goes in Notes unless & until it explicitly impacts on a Transformers comic, i.e. crossover stories. --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]} 04:05, 8 June 2016 GMT
::::::: Hum, so... Not a total coverage, got it. But some Locations have had their own articles just because they were in the Hasbro 'verse. All that Star Wars stuff for example is mostly unrelated. If there is such a thing like an official Hasbro 'verse... shouldn't we start to list planets from other continuities? Or does that also fall under the category of "only if a Transformer / EDC member ever puts his feet /wheels on it"? Other more precise locations may clearly not fit in here, but planets? I feel as if the Planets and stars existing in IDW's Rom are are much more observable from Earth or Cybertron than some other stuff we already have. Anyway, I'm just asking before I begin to do any unnecessary work.[[User:Xunk16|Xunk16]] ([[User talk:Xunk16|talk]]) 02:19, 23 September 2016 (EDT)
::::::::If it appears in an issue that we're covering (i.e. an issue with Transformers in), then it can get an article. If it doesn't, it doesn't. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 04:23, 23 September 2016 (EDT)

==Gobots Sister Wiki Progress==
Has anyone ever made any progress on the Gobots sister wiki? I have no experience in creating wikis, but would love to see this get made. -[[User:Halfshell25|Halfshell25]] ([[User talk:Halfshell25|talk]]) 19:21, 22 June 2016 (EDT)

== "Foreign Names" ==
The original Mandarin names of the Chinese MMO characters are not their "foreign names" and it is factually inaccurate to label them as such. The AVP replacement names are actually the "foreign" ones. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 08:45, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:Wouldn't the same objection apply to [[Ricochet (Headmasters)]] and the entirety of the Unicron Trilogy's characters? Perhaps a change to the title of the section would be appropriate, but I just read the heading as "names in a language other than English". --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 09:16, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::UT characters are in a much different position, since they were developed with both the English-speaking audience and the Japanese audience in mind, they weren't created for Japan and then imported elsewhere. I would also note that "Foreign names" isn't used to mean "names in a language other than English" on the Beastformers' articles, which list their English names under that header. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 09:56, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::What kind of a change would you suggest? Is it a matter of semantics, like we could change the headers to "International names"? Personally, I never thought the "Foreign names" header intimated something suggesting that the names were "secondary", just that we use English language names where appropriate and list the international/foreign ones at the bottom where appropriate. I don't think country of origin ever really factored into it. And we use the Foreign names section even when characters have the same names across languages, but render them in that language's alphabet for ease of reference (admittedly, we've been rather sloppy about that, particularly the similar Foreign localization sections of episodes where sometimes we list a language's info and sometimes we don't). While we could definitely stand to be more complete/precise across the board, I think altering the section titles based on country of origin would only confuse things for casual browsers. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 10:28, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::Honestly the main thing I wanna suggest is un-reverting the changes to the MMO characters back to "Original Mandarin Name" in place of "Foreign name" as that just more accurate, IMO. I also think that if the intent of the wiki is that "Foreign names" be read as "non-English names" then maybe "English" shouldn't actually appear under that header, as it does for Beastformers and Omni Producion dubs. And if "Foreign names" is actually supposed to mean "Names given to character in foreign markets" then should the name given in their ''original'' market actually be under there? Should a character's original name ever be labelled "foreign"? My gut instinct is to say "no" to that. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 11:16, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::They are foreign to our main readership, which is primarily Americans. That's what it means, regardless of whether the character is a foreign creation. We've had examples like [[Ricochet (Headmasters)|Ricochet/Stepper]], [[Snowblind|Snowblind/Beacon]], and [[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus Prime/Fire Convoy]] for years. Why is this any different? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 12:04, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::I don't know! Maybe it isn't! Maybe all characters should always have their original name listed as such instead of just being under the "Foreign names" header! Maybe they shouldn't! Maybe! --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:16, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::Foreign is always understood as being in relation to the speaker. As this wiki is English speaking, all non-English names are foreign, even if they are the original names for those characters. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:11, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::::Again, if "all non-English name are foreign" then maaaaaaaaybe the word "English" shouldn't be appearing beneath the "Foreign names" header on any articles? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:19, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::::That's a more valid point, though it is mainly used for the Omni Productions dub which is pretty foreign to anything close to English...or good.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:23, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::As we currently have it set up for English/Omni names, it looks like this:

*''English:'' '''Billy''' ([[Omni Productions]] dub), '''Blaster''' ([[Omni Productions]] dub Twincast)

While it seems pretty clear by having the Omni Productions note in parenthesis by the names, maybe it would look better like this?

*''English ([[Omni Productions]] dub):'' '''Billy''' (as Blaster), '''Blaster''' (as Twincast)

Is that better or worse or not even worth the effort? Personally, I don't have a dog in this race; I kinda think things are okay as-is. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 12:35, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:I was walking about the presence of "English" beneath a "Foreign names" header at all if the intended meaning of "Foreign names" is "non-English." So this isn't really addressing that? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:45, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::There isn't really any other good place for these names to go. Unless you want to elevate them to the level of legitimate English variants (like Hot Rod vs Rodimus Prime or Bluestreak vs Silverstreak). I would find it a lot more disturbing to see "Also known as Billy" in Blaster's intro. Oh, and I agree with Speng's new version of the listing. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:57, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::Okay, but then, what else could we call it? How else could we catalog that info? Should we put the Omni names at the top of the article alongside the "Sometimes he is known as..." notation at the bottom of the intro? I dunno if anybody would like that. I get what you're saying about having "English" under Foreign names when we default to English as a standard, but I'm not sure of a better way to catalog their Omni names aside from how we have it (English with Omni in parenthesis) (EDIT: Ah, Khajida beat me to the punch by 2 minutes). --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 12:59, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::I mean, I suppose just listing "Omni Productions Dub" without the word English next to it would read better? Or listing it's country of origin instead of language, rendering the meaning on "Foreign" as "non-American" rather than "non-English?" --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 13:05, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::The Omni dubs are a very strange situation, though, and probably not something we need to build a whole policy around. Surely if we have a working system in place that reads a little strange in this one case we don't need to revamp everything. We can make some kind of reasonable exception just for Omni and call it a day.--[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 13:39, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::Right. I think we're digressing from Kil's original complaint. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:38, 14 July 2016 (EDT)

== Striking Unit:E from the record ==

As someone who has been adding a bunch of pages for the newly introduced Hasbro properties that are part of IDW's Revolution, I think we're hitting a bit of a snag: Unit:E.
Unit:E was supposed to spin-out of Prime, which would put it in the Aligned continuity, while all the Revolution stuff is based in G1 continuity. As such, including info on both IDW Action Man and Unit:E Action Man on the same page doesn't make sense (especially when that page was built solely with IDW in mind.) However, this is a Transformers Wiki, and I don't think we need Action Man (IDW) and Action Man (Unit:E)
This kind of thing WILL spiral out of control, and will only get worse with things like G.I. Joe characters (who are all G1 based) and Micronauts (because Acroyear is so different between the two incarnations.)
As such, I propose that we set a precedent to excise ANY Unit:E-based material, with the exception of how it directly relates to the Transformers. Meaning the page on the actual group mentioned in Prime and the comic itself would stay, but unless Transformers were involved, the events aren't referenced. [[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 19:57 15 July 2016 (EST)
:Or we could just leave them on the same pages like we already are now. Don't overcomplicate things. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 20:27, 15 July 2016 (EDT)
::The way we handle non-Transformers original characters is to keep all appearances together on the same page. So, if Destro shows up in Animated, and again in G1, we don't make two articles. No need for an Action Man (Aligned) and an Action Man (G1) under this scheme. Having them on the same page is a simple and elegant solution. --[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 20:39, 15 July 2016 (EDT)
:::My issue with Unit:E is that none of the characters actually interact, and the multiversal nature of the story means that the Action Man featured there may not even have Transformers in his own universe, meaning his adventures would fall into the Megaverse, and thus outside this wiki's domain. The Unit:E information is therefore superfluous. Unit:E is also not a Transformers-branded piece of media. Notice we don't record the G.I. Joe events of Infestation. --[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 20:53 15 July 2015 (EST)
::::Because those issues do not have Transformers in them. Unit:E does, and I'm seriously having a hard time seeing the harm in detailing an one-shot issue that didn't amount to anything and that nobody else will cover. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 22:57, 15 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::The Unit:E stuff is G1 already though. Arcee, Jazz, Optimus Prime and Bumblebee are all seen as distinctly G1 incarnations of those characters. There isn't even a need to consider the fact that one spin-off is G1 and another is Aligned since that's not the case. --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron|talk]]) 00:40, 16 July 2016 (EDT)

== Aligned characters ==

[http://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/101932-tfwikinet-thread-30/page-247 As brought up here on the Allspark], is there any momentum to split the RiD2015 incarnations of characters such as [[Grimlock (WFC)]], [[Sideswipe (WFC)]], and [[Kickback (FOC)]]? A highly broken concept as it is, the Aligned continuity family does roughly fit together as one timeline. As the three aforementioned RiD characters quite obviously do not share the looks and personalities of the WfC/FoC characters, I, for one, do not see how to reconcile them as the WfC/FoC characters at a new stage of their lives. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 01:57, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
:Yeah, I've come around to the idea that they just don't have that much in common between names and altmodes (or, er, robot modes). I vote to split. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 04:52, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
::For the reasons I've laid out on the AllSpark and on Sideswipe (WFC)'s talk page, I also think they should be split. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 07:24, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
:::I also vote split. And just because I think this is a really useful way to conceptualize things, I want to repeat my formulation from the AllSpark thread:
::::''Let me present this little thought experiment. Let's say that the RID 15 guy was named "Trapjaw", an early name for Grimlock. Maybe for copyright reasons, maybe for creative reasons, we don't know specifically. Would we still be inclined to keep the pages merged? This is an issue that has been a part of the Transformers brand since 1984 (see: Jetfire and Skyfire, who do indeed share a page). Shockblasts comfortably share pages with Shockwaves, Silverstreaks with Bluestreaks, Jazzs with Meisters. Likewise, characters since G1 have shared names and yet not been the same characters: Sky High is the earliest example. In this case, take away the name, and is there any reason to keep them merged? If your answer to this question is no, then you should probably be in favor of a split. ''
:::I think this is an abstract enough test to be useful in a variety of cases where there is name reuse but little else. I've tested it against various counterexamples and (BW vs G1 Megatron, Octane and Tankor, various Unicron Trilogy Mini-Con nameslaps, toon vs comic Blaster) and it always seems to produce the 'correct' answer. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 09:52, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
::::This test is a fantastic measure and one I wholly advocate, but I'll note that this metric places ROTF and AOE Lockdown's merger on relatively shaky footing. Whether that's a good or bad thing is uncertain, but I'd say it's worth it to make sure these RID articles are split. [[User:Sky Shadow|Sky Shadow]] ([[User talk:Sky Shadow|talk]]) 08:29, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
[http://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/101932-tfwikinet-thread-30/?p=3302429 Spectre makes a good point here] about the distinctiveness of Grimlock and Sideswipe. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 21:26, 4 August 2016 (EDT)

So...absent any complaints or counter-arguments in the next 24 hours, I say we go ahead and begin splitting these three characters. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 10:38, 5 August 2016 (EDT)
:As much as my vote matters, I agree with splitting them. [[User:Stealthyboy|Stealthyboy]] ([[User talk:Stealthyboy|talk]]) 13:04, 5 August 2016 (EDT)

So far what I'm getting from the Allspark thread is that it's highly subjective whether anyone thinks FOC Grimlock and RID Grimlock should share a page because they're both based on G1 Grimlock, or whether the differences between the two characters are enough that they should get separate pages. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 19:37, 5 August 2016 (EDT)
: Really? I got the sense that there was one guy that really thought they should be together, several people that really thought they should be separate, and a few people who seemed on the fence. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 23:19, 5 August 2016 (EDT)
:: '''Keep''' them merged. Any argument for splitting them is either arbitrary and could be applied to numerous other characters ([[Brawl (Movie)]], [[Vortex (Movie)]], [[Sideswipe (Movie)]], [[Swerve (Movie)]], [[Hound (Movie)]] and [[Lockdown (ROTF)]], to name a few), or based on [[authorial intent]].--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 09:02, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
::: None of those guys have the same problem of irreconcilable fiction and lots of it, and none of them right now have new material coming up on a regular basis. (The only big issue there is Brawl because Titan went "oh uh it's twins" and in practice that's been easy to skim over) --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 14:52, 6 August 2016 (GMT)
::::Yeah, if we'd got any significant fiction for Movie 1 Hound or ROTF Lockdown, I'd argue that they should be split. Hell, I'm still not convinced that the Lockdowns should share a page, but I'm flexible on that. Most of the ones you've brought up, I would think should share a page only because they ''both'' are based on the same vague concept ''and'' don't have large amounts of fiction in contradictory incarnations. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 11:49, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
:::::I would be up for splitting Brawl, Vortex, Sideswipe, etc though I think it would be unnecessary give how little material their non-screen versions received. But we already have [[Jetfire (Movie)]] and [[Jetfire (ROTF)]] split despite the former having no fiction whatsoever. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 12:49, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
::::::I think, fundamentally, what it comes down to me is: ''will splitting help casual fans to understand better/stop them being confused?'' In the case of RID Grimlock, Sideswipe, and probably Kickback, I think that yes, it would. With Movie Hound and Sideswipe and Vortex, there's very little understanding that would be improved by doing so, and would likely just confuse fans searching for "movie Hound", etc. In the case of the Lockdowns, they're arguably the same character by virtue of Q-Transformers, though that's obviously kinda shaky. (And splitting Brawl would be the most unnecessary pedantry in the whole world, damn.) --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 15:14, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

:: I'd vote to keep them merged, with the stipulation that we add a note of some kind explaining the discrepancy. [[User:Grum|Grum]] ([[User talk:Grum|talk]]) 09:02, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

::Split. They're wildly different characters with no visual similarity and aren't based on the same toy (WFC Grimlock not even originally from a toy!) and it means anyone browsing to look up RID Grimlock, the one they most likely will be, atm has to get through a lot of different Grimlock. --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 14:46, 6 August 2016 (GMT)

A lot of what I'm hearing from the "Keep them merged" crowd is that they don't think some of the reasons for splitting are good reasons. Let me flip it around for a minute -- can anyone think of a ''benefit'' to keeping these characters merged? Besides a slippery-slope argument that it may, someday in the future, be used to justify other splits? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 10:03, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

Split. They're very different characters. And there's no conflict between Hasbro statements and author intent here; the most relevant Hasbro statement is the one that would indicate that FoC and RiD do take place in the same timeline, in which case there can be no "different interpretation of the same characters" between them; characters who cannot be the actual same individual at different times in the same timeline therefore must be different ones with the same name. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 15:02, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

Can I vote that there should be no blanket policy here, to just evaluate on a case-by-case basis? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 16:33, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
: Absolutely, and seconded. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 16:45, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

So I count '''Split: 10''' (Xaaron, SHIELD Agent 47, Charles RB, Jim S, Riptide, Sky Shadow, Stealthyboy, NovaSaber, abates, Sabrblade), '''Keep: 2''' (Nevermore, Grum), with no guiding hand from Admin/Owners. Can we go ahead with splitting these three characters, with the understanding that no larger administrative policy is being established, and future cases should still be evaluated on an individual basis? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 10:42, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
:I mentioned it on the Allspark, but I don't have any particularly strong preference so long it's applied consistently for all the applicable Aligned characters, and not just Grimlock. I do kind of question the sense in still treating Aligned like it's still a single timeline under Squint Test rules, since it seems reasonably certain, between RID Grimlock's existence and the departure of Hasbro folks like Archer, that that concept has been thrown out the window. But I also feel like splitting these characters has benefits in terms of accessibility for the casual user, and I guess that's why I'm not going to vote against – I think I probably would if it felt entirely like meaningless "furniture rearrangement" (as Sipher puts it). I think it's worth putting out one final call for people to 'vote' on the Allspark thread before going ahead with the split. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 11:19, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
::Also, as a postscript: if the splits do go ahead, links will need updating pretty hasty-like, or else there'll be a hell of a lot of potential for confusion. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 11:26, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
:::Relinked episodes 1-12 and the main RID series page so far. Moving on to the non-show relinks now. --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 02:00, 8 August 2016 (GMT)
::::Every image and linked-to non-TV-story on Grim's page has been relinked, plus the RID toyline page. Just the rest of the eps and other character's pages to go--[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 02:30, 8 August 2016 (GMT)
:::::Eps and main Autobots relinked--[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 02:50, 8 August 2016 (GMT)
::::::I think I've got all of the remaining articles, so there's just a pile of images with links to the wrong Grimlock in their descriptions. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 07:11, 8 August 2016 (EDT)
:Throwing my vote in while I still can. I said it on The Allspark an will say it here that I'm in favor of splitting the Grimlock, Sideswipe, and Kickback articles. Although... [[Blurr (Prime)]] might be a fourth contender for splitting as well, but I'm not as eager to see that one split as the other three, so I won't fight for that one as much if enough people object to splitting the Blurr page. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 14:27, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
::Hrm. Yeah, I'd say split the Blurrs, too. They've really only got "car what goes fast" in common, and really, what ''else'' is a bot called Blurr going to turn into? With that one in particular, they're so different that there's no way to reconcile them for an opening paragraph other than the faux-narrative of "first he was this, then he was this". --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:38, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
:I'm actually in favour of split. Not sure I'm particularly worried about Kickback, but Grimlock and Sideswipe definitely. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 18:34, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
Starting on Sideswipe now. Though, come to think of it, is it necessary to title ''Robots in Disguise'' Sideswipe at "Sideswipe (RID 2015)" since the 2001 guy has a space in his name? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 11:15, 8 August 2016 (EDT)
::No, strictly speaking it wouldn't need the 2015, though it's probably a case where an argument could be made for making an exception? [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 12:36, 8 August 2016 (EDT)

== Generations toyline page ==

A thought: do the ''Combiner Wars'' and ''Titans Return'' sublines merit their own pages? The [[Transformers: Generations|''Generations'' page]] has exceeded the length of even the [[The Transformers (toyline)|U.S. G1 toyline page]], and barring some unforeseen financial disaster at Hasbro, we know that the Prime Wars Trilogy will get another entry after ''Titans Return''. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 16:28, 14 August 2016 (EDT)
:I agree. Given how the "''Combiner Wars''" and "''Titans Return''" names overshadow the "''Generations''" name on the packaging, I think we should give them their own page. The fact that each also has a [[Combiner Wars (franchise)|franchise]] [[Titans Return (franchise)|page]] I think warrants this expansion. --[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 18:20, 14 August 2016 (EDT)
:I'm on board with that.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 06:27, 15 August 2016 (EDT)
::Given that Combiner Wars, Titans Return and the next line are under the "Prime Wars" umbrella, maybe we should make a Prime Wars subpage for Generations, similar to the way certain character pages have a separate Toys page, and put the toys in those three lines on that page.[[User:Stealthyboy|Stealthyboy]] ([[User talk:Stealthyboy|talk]]) 17:10, 18 August 2016 (EDT)
Anyone in opposition to this motion? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 00:09, 21 August 2016 (EDT)
:Splitting is probably the least unwieldy option, or will be eventually, so I don't see why not. [[User:Item42|Item42]] ([[User talk:Item42|talk]]) 00:32, 21 August 2016 (EDT)
I'd been considering this myself for a while. My suggestion, I guess, would be splitting it three ways, by logo/branding - original, FOC/T30, and Prime Wars. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 04:45, 21 August 2016 (EDT)
:I think the original Deluxe line, FoC, and T30 can all stay on the same Generations page since their packaging has "Transformers: Generations" as the main thing. I'd even argue splitting up Combiner Wars and Titans Return into their own pages given that (as far as I know) Prime Wars wasn't mentioned on their toy packaging. --[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 11:55, 21 August 2016 (EDT)
::Of course the argument "size of the logo on the packaging" opens a whole can of worms again regarding ''[[Reveal the Shield]]'', which we currently consider a [[subline imprint]] of [[Transformers (2010 toyline)|''Transformers'' (2010)]]… Long story short, the title "Reveal the Shield" on the packaging has the same size and font and all as the concurrently available original ''[[Transformers: Generations|Generations]]'' Deluxe line's title (seriouly, just judging from the packaging alone, [http://imgur.com/a/Mhhjr how is the right one a toy line and the left one only a subline imprint]?)… on the other hand, all the ''Reveal the Shield'' assortments were continued from the 2010 ''Transformers'' line's general retail assortments ([http://imgur.com/B2YWKYd same assortment numbers]), which were simpy branded ''Transformers'' with additional stickers for the ''[[Hunt for the Decepticons]]'' promotion and Jesus Christ on a bicycle 2010's branding was confusing as hell.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 15:34, 22 August 2016 (EDT)
:::''Combiner Wars'' and ''Titans Return'', though, are subline imprints with noteworthy fiction due to their status as multimedia branding. If and when I get to separating out the toylines into their own articles, I believe I will focus on those two. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 23:40, 25 August 2016 (EDT)

== Masterforce humans and transtectors ==

Um, why are we separating the human Minerva, Ginrai, etc. from the robot Minerva, Ginrai, etc? Especially considering that we just fairly recently combined the organic Nebulan Peacemaker (et al.) and the robotic Peaceman (et al.). --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:39, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
:Well, it's not really a comparable situation to Peacemaker and co. - this is robot and human versions of the same character co-existing together in the same world, not a character being variably robot or human in different universes. With new fiction (and probably more to come) of the humans and robots off doing separate stuff, splitting them out is probably the solution that leads to the least-confusing biography write-ups... [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 12:46, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
::We already did this almost two years ago for [[Shūta Gō]] and [[Goshooter]] when they appeared simultaneously in order to keep track of them better. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 12:49, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
:::What Jalaguy said. Otherwise we get alternating paragraphs of human and robot Minerva fiction which only confuse readers. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 16:16, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
::::Should their toys be split onto subpages as well then? It seems redundant to have exactly the same section on both pages.[[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 17:10, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
:::::They're not that long and they don't have the exact same set of toys. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 17:14, 30 August 2016 (EDT)

==Bios by Universal Stream==
For characters like Jhiaxus who have totally different personalities, I think we should have individual bios placed above their fiction. Though we do note that certain characters have wildly different portrayals, we never really explain their personality, simply listing what happens in their fictional appearances. This could also count for locations as well. For example, Cybertron is a very different planet in several continuities, yet we don't usually have individual descriptions of each version. Currently we (for the most part) only list the history of the planet, not its defining physical characteristics. I'm not talking about a long bio, just a few sentences to clarify the differences with its other versions. Does anyone else agree? --[[User:Halfshell25|Halfshell25]] 12:31, 04 September 2016 (EDT)

== Titan Master toy info accessibility ==

To account for ''Titans Return'' Titan Masters whose names and personalities match the large classic dudes instead of the small classic dudes they tend to physically resemble, I have added links in the 1980s Nebulans' toy sections pointing to the large guy's ''Titans Return'' toys. How does everyone feel about this? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 22:23, 8 September 2016 (EDT)
:Sounds good to me. I was going to put the full entries on their pages, but this probably works better. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 06:57, 9 September 2016 (EDT)
::Personalities? I am intrigued. How do you know what their personalities are? There are no bios or anything. - [[User:Gimmick|Gimmick]] ([[User talk:Gimmick|talk]]) 18:18, 9 September 2016 (EDT)
:::Haven't you seen the packaging backsides? Or the [[Titans Return: The Power of the Titan Masters|available on the Internet catalog]]? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 19:25, 9 September 2016 (EDT)
::::I know about the catalog bios, but the single-packed Titan Masters really don't have bios anywhere on their package. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 20:28, 9 September 2016 (EDT)
:::::Yeah, the single-packed TMs don't have their bios on their packaging, just in the storybook/catalogue and on their Hasbro.com listings. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 08:02, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
::::::I haven't read the Comic-Con storybook, but thanks for the heads up on the Hasbro.com bios. The Wiki could probably say more about that. Although I think I would rather not have known that some Titan Masters have their big-guy personality just because in the real life universe, their toy was packaged individually. Personal canon: Titan Master Fangry's superpower is that he comes with Google Maps preinstalled. - [[User:Gimmick|Gimmick]] ([[User talk:Gimmick|talk]]) 10:49, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
:Should the same system be used for [[Emissary (Generations)|Emissary]] on [[Spike_Witwicky_(G1)|Spike]] and [[Galen Kord|Galen's]] pages? At the moment the full entry for Emissary is on Spike's page with nothing on Galen's, even though the G1 toy is on both. [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 07:06, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
::Emissary is designed to look like Spike and Galen's armor, though. That's more in common than there is between the single Titan Masters and their corresponding Nebulans, who basically have "turns into the same head" as the only reason to associate them. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 14:59, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I suppose, but there are a lot of toys that look very similar to a previous character but aren't on their page. [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 11:34, 12 September 2016 (EDT)

== Add links to uploaded videos of episodes in the articles for episodes? ==

I have been watching the G1 on dailymotion and all thanks to this wiki, I just check the list of episodes and look for it in a couple of chosen favorite channels.
I thought that maybe it'd be cool if we could simply add links to the episodes in the articles themselves?

As a bonus, we could also form a team and:
* Set up our own channel.
* Collect the best quality versions of the episodes from various sources.
* Link to those videos in the articles. --[[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 03:20, 14 September 2016 (EDT)
:Nope. The wiki is ''not'' going to endorse piracy. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 03:28, 14 September 2016 (EDT)
::That would give Hasbro a nice, easy reason to shut the wiki down, which is not what we're after. When it's all out for purchase, it's not fair to them to put it up illegally. [[User:AkibaSilver|AkibaSilver]] ([[User talk:AkibaSilver|talk]]) 08:31, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:Christ no. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 15:25, 15 September 2016 (EDT)

== Animation/continuity errors ==

Hey, this is just a little thing - I'm not proposing anything, just mentioning this with a view to moving forward, but I really dislike how on episode pages we put errors first. I get why, it's a carryover from our G1 episode pages being some of the first things we ever did, and errors being perhaps the most famous, most catalogue-able thing about that series. But it's an out-of-place, and frankly I think demeaning, thing to have as the first entry for an average modern cartoon episode when there's plenty of other, more "relevant" information to provide ahead of mistakes. We don't do it for comics, and I don't like it on episodes either. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 14:06, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'd say go ahead and make a proposal to change it. You have my vote behind you. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 14:49, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'm beyond okay with this and absolutely in favor of making this a broad-scale change to existing pages. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 15:13, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:Yup, also very much behind this. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 15:21, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:If we're re-ordering anyway, does anyone else think it would be more informative to "continuity errors" always follow "continuity notes" for episodes that have both, even if it means "continuity errors" is no longer consecutive with "animation and technical errors"? [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 15:51, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
::I wouldn't be adverse to making the errors a subset of notes, really. I mean, a continuity error IS technically a note about continuity. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 16:05, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I'm not sure, with modern shows, that we even ''need'' separate sections for "continuity errors" and "animation errors." Again, with G1 - yes, we did, because there were so many. But such things are so rare now that a simple "Errors" section seems like all we need to everything effectively.
::::Ehn, I feel like keeping all the continuity bits together, be they complimentary or clashing, makes more sense than lumping the continuity-clashes with "someone forgot to texture that panel in that one shot". --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 16:15, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
::I agree. Although, personally, I don't see a reason to bundle it up under one "Errors" heading. As a reader, I would like them to be under relevant headings. --[[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 14:29, 18 September 2016 (EDT)

== Japanese UT character disambig tags ==

Would anyone object to me simplifying the tags "(Micron Densetsu)", "(Super Link)", and "(Galaxy Force)" for Japanese-original Unicron Trilogy characters with such tags down to just "(MD)", "(SL)", and "(GF)"? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 00:48, 20 September 2016 (EDT)
:Go for it! --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 01:09, 20 September 2016 (EDT)

== RID/G1 character merges ==

What with the steadily increasing numbers of RID 2001 characters imported into Generation 1 based continuities with basically no differences, I feel like we should probably just merge their G1 counterparts into the RID pages and be done with it, especially with the blurred lines of Car Robots involved; we're already doing so for Wind Sheer and Skyfire. This would (probably) mean merging the following pages:
* Bruticus (CR) into [[Bruticus (RID)]]
* [[Cryotek (Universe)]] into [[Cryotek (RID)]]
* Dark Scream (G1) into [[Dark Scream]]
* Emissary (BW) into [[Emissary (RID)]]
* Gigatron (G1) into [[Megatron (RID)]]
* [[Jhiaxus (RID)]] into [[Jhiaxus (G2)]]
* Side Burn (G1) into [[Side Burn (RID)]] (arguable)
* Sky-Byte (G2) into [[Sky-Byte (RID)]]
* Slapper (Universe) into [[Slapper (RID)]]
* And probably [[Predacon (RID)]] into [[Predacon (BW)]] as well; the latter kind of needs a more continuity-neutral reformat anyway.
I just feel like all these fairly arbitrary splits for guys who are intended to be ''pretty much'' the same characters, coupled with the explanatory blocks of text about Japanese G1 continuity, is making this more complicated than it needs to be. Thoughs? --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 11:54, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:Yup. About time too. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 12:04, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'm down. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 12:11, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:[[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive60#Probably an unpopular thought, but...|Always been for it.]] I'm not sure if I'm on board with Hasbro-original characters like Jhiaxus and Cryotek, but I'll accept them if it means the CR guys get merged. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 12:21, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:Oppose. RID is not only a separate continuity, but also a separate multiversal stream. To start merging these characters just because they're broadly similar doesn't really make sense. After all, ''Animated'' [[Ransack (Animated)|Ransack]] and [[Crumplezone (Animated)|Crumplezone]] are practically identical in personality and design to their ''Cybertron'' counterparts, but we acknowledge them as separate distinct entities. And characters imported into G1 like Sky-Byte have shown up in three different continuities. Would this also mean ''Universe'' [[Ratchet (Universe)|Ratchet]] gets folded in with G1 [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]]? Plus, this could lead to confusion by someone wondering "Why isn't all the info about Fire Truck Optimus with Old Optimus?" I think by this point we're long past merging RID and G1 in any form other than the brief "in Japan, this cartoon is G1 because dumb reasons." --[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 12:47, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::The difference between G1 and RID is inherently different to the difference between G1 and Animated because of Car Robots. People wouldn't wonder why RID Optimus wasn't with G1 Optimus because they have distinct designs and personalities, and have existed in the same continuity. We already have different incarnations of the same character from separate continuity families sharing pages, so it's not like this is going to start a slippery slope. (And no, Universe and G1 Ratchet would not be merged, for the same reason that RID and G1 Prowl would not be merged.) --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 13:02, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:::The only slippery slope involved here is the one we're already sliding down that involves more and more RID characters appearing in G1 stories that makes this a more plausible action to take. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:06, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:::Except this wiki has always used the American-based fiction as it's primary source, where RID is separate from everything. And even Car Robots being G1 is the result of a freaking RETCON. I'd even argue that any characters who do have multiple continuities on their page be split (though the only examples that come to mind are former Multiversal Singularities like Unicron or Vector Prime, which were only created that way ''because'' they were multiversal singularities.)

:::Also, If I end up getting out voted on this, I'd at least like to argue against merging Side Burn, Jhiaxus, and GIgatron/Megatron. Because G1 Side Burn does differ from RID in a few notable ways (most notably NOT being brother to a guy named Prowl), Jhiaxus is more of a repurposing, and not only is there already a Megatron in the IDW comics, there's a Gigatron in the Animated universe that is also based on RID Megs. And if we're merging BW Bruticus into RID Bruticus, we'd also have to merge TF 2010 Backstop, Underbite, and Wreckloose in with their Cybertron counterparts. All in all, this seems like it's becoming more of a headache than just keeping them separate.--[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 14:41, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::::This is kind of a weird string of complaints that don't really logically bear on anything. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:17, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'd be fine with this. Certainly seems preferable to weird crap like Sky-Byte having Japanese G1 fiction on one article and Hasbro G1 fiction on another. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]])
:I agree with the general idea and most of the examples, but I'd say Jhiaxus isn't really the same situation as the rest. I'm not sure about the factions either. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 14:45, 21 September 2016 (EDT)

Some other stuff that could stand to be merged:
*Hound (RID) into [[Hound (G1)]]
*Sky Lynx (RID) into [[Sky Lynx (G1)]]
*Teletraan I (RID) into Teletraan I (G1)
Mmmmmmaybe [[Alpha Trion (RID)]]? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 13:38, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:Three "CHRIST YES"es, and a "hmnnn." - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:41, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:For what it's worth, [[Ultra Trion]]'s "Trion" bits do sure look like they came off of G1 A3... --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:15, 21 September 2016 (EDT)

How do we feel about the likes of [[Ransack (IDW)|Ransack]]? Could he stand to be merged into his ''Cybertron'' page? --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee|talk]]) 15:22, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:Eh, hang on I think I'm caught up now. Without ''Car Robots'' there's no link to G1 so he's a separate character unlike the RID guys. Is that right? --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee|talk]]) 15:27, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::Yeah, that's a separate discussion (and a merge I'd disagree with, but let's focus on the RID guys for now). [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:35, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I agree that they should be merged except Jhiaxus.--[[User:Primestar3|Primestar3]] ([[User talk:Primestar3|talk]]) 15:38, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:I think I'd be against merging anyone from different continuity families other than between G1/BW and RiD. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 15:55, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::That seems to be a reasonable rule of thumb. --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee|talk]]) 16:09, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::To be honest, I'd be kind of inclined to merge the BWU Micromaster/Mini-Con repurposings as well, just because both iterations of the characters are so insignificant, and AVP seemed to make a point of having a lot of Mini-Cons exist across continuity families... but that's a separate argument and one with no real solid logic behind it. In this particular instance, yes, leave it as G1 and RID. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 16:16, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
I'm not sure exactly what position to take, but I would say that Hasbro-original characters are somewhat different from the guys who share a CR/RiD cartoon narrative. Thus, I think RiD Alpha Trion should be looked at the same way as RiD Optimus Prime and RiD Ultra Magnus. And to add to the list of pages up for consideration:
*Plasma into [[Cerebros (RID)]]
Also, I note that the one-off text mention of IDW G1 Side Burn. Anyone know if that iteration is tied to RiD 2001 Side Burn or is an independent conception? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 16:32, 21 September 2016 (EDT)

So should we merge Cryotek and Jhiaxus? I opposed it back when because there was no real reason to while we had the others split, but now I think that it's a close enough situation that they should be merged, even if they don't have Car Robots equivalents; it's still "RID guy is used in a G1 universe". (Plus, Bruticus only has a "Car Robots" counterpart because of AVP fiction, so merging him solely on that basis while leaving the other Hasbro-originals separate feels overly nitpicky.) --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 09:02, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
:I feel like Jhiaxus is more "RID Optimus Prime and G1 Optimus Prime"—he would have had his article all along if it wasn't for 3H saying it was the original Jhiaxus. I admit I don't have an argument for Cryotek. Just preference. If you want to merge them, *shrug* [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 09:16, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
::I think they should remain separate. RiD Cryotek and Jhiaxus had independent Viron existences in the first place due to their toys, and I think their personalities are distinct. That their toys were repurposed is like ''Prime'' Ratchet's design getting repurposed in G1 for that X-Files Hearts of Steel story. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 10:33, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I think, at least in the case of Jhiaxus, "distinct personality" doesn't matter that much, because he's never been consistent. Really, I just think it's neater to have them together if the other RID characters are, especially since they both predate recent official repurposing trends; 3H's thinking was probably "Cryotek is Cryotek"/"Jhiaxus is Jhiaxus". --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 10:39, 22 September 2016 (EDT)

Wait, better argument: we're already keeping the Hasbro-original, toyline-only characters Skyfire and Wind Sheer merged across continuity families, and it'd be patently silly to split them out. I don't want to argue for consistency above all things, but in this matter, I think it'd be a good idea. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 12:42, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
:Okay, I do not necessarily agree, but I can see a case to be made that similarly to Wind Sheer and Skyfire, Cryotek is a Hasbro RiD-original guy who was extended into G1. But that does not apply to Jhiaxus. G2 Jhiaxus existed by himself for a decade before the independent RiD toy came along. RiD Jhiaxus by our policies and by logic should remain an independent page. Otherwise, we should merge ''Prime'' Ratchet into G1 Ratchet's page. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 04:20, 23 September 2016 (EDT)
::Really? Because his page only got built when I mentioned his name in Ask Vector Prime as a continuity patch as far as I know. That hardly seems like a cut-and-dried case. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 07:41, 23 September 2016 (EDT)
:::Yeah, I think that the fact that for a decade and a half the ''only'' use of RID Jhiaxus was as the G2 character makes it more fair to fudge categorization for the sake of consistency. Plus, as I said, G2 Jhiaxus is already both "tyrannical leader" and "sycophantic scientist"; is "dedicated, loyal lieutenant" that much of a step away? (Hell, you could even look at it as a halfway point between the two...)

:I disagree. One of the things I like about this wiki, is the fact that every continuity get's its own share of articles. And RID and G1 are not even part of the same continuity family. I don't see why it's even being considered and agreed to. Also, they weren't just different families, but RID is a japanese cartoon.
:You say that there are virtually no differences, so I assume that they look identical to their G1 counterparts, but what about the story? Take hound for example. I haven't watched the cartoon so I don't know, but if he didn't get a redesign, does that mean that he wasn't relevant to the story either? If that is the case, then I guess it won't kill to merge.
:And why would you want to merge the Predacon(BW) with Predacon(RID)? The BW Predacons came after the decepticons, and are rather like their descendants or successors, while in RID, the decepticons are like a really small sub-group of the Predacons. That alone, I believe shows that it makes no sense to merge the two. --[[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 09:44, 24 September 2016 (EDT)
::Surely that's more of an argument for splitting the Decepticons, then? I think if the Autobots and Decepticons are broadly similar enough across continuities to have only one page for each, the same's true of the BW/RID Predacons. (The Prime Predacons have a different insignia, story role and altmodes, so they wouldn't be merged.) --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 12:14, 24 September 2016 (EDT)
:::Let's compare the two, shall we?
:::Similarities:
:::* Both evil.
:::* Both led by a Megatron.
:::* Both transform into animals.
:::* Terrorize.

:::Differences:
:::* The RID Predacons have a long lasting enmity with Autobots while the BW Predacons have it with the Maximals.
:::* The BW Predacons were descended or derived from the Decepticons, while in RID, the Decepticons were a subgroup of the Predacons.
:::* Predacon Council vs Tripedacus Council
:::* The RID Predacons are rougly the same size as the Autobots while the average BW Predacons are smaller than Prime's head.
:::* Virtually no similarity at all between the story.
:::* Not a single common character. Megatron doesn't count (also he seems closer to the G1 Megatron than the Beast Megatron.)--[[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 11:14, 2 October 2016 (EDT)
::Hound wasn't ''in'' the RiD cartoon; or toyline, for that matter. Some guy who looks like Hound just had a small role in a convention story whose continuity family wasn't even confirmed until Ask Vector Prime said it was a "Viron" universe. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 12:06, 24 September 2016 (EDT)

== National Toy Hall of Fame nomination ==

The Transformers toyline is 1 of 12 nominees (2 or 3 will be inducted) to the [[wikipedia:National_Toy_Hall_of_Fame|National Toy Hall of Fame]], according to http://www.toyhalloffame.org/2016-finalists (which uses as an illustration the most prominent and sought-after of all Transformers, [[Topspin_(G1)#Generation_1|G1 Topspin]]).

On the http://www.toyhalloffame.org/ main page (which uses a [http://www.tfu.info/1986/Autobot/Metroplex/metroplex.htm G1 Metroplex] with broken/missing parts as an illustration) visitors can vote for their favorite nominee.

i feel like this is relevant to the wiki, but i'm not sure where to put it. Possibly a new article for the National Toy Hall of Fame? (Maybe also under Notes/Trivia in Topspin's and Metroplex's articles?)

--[[User:Rhymus|Rhymus]] ([[User talk:Rhymus|talk]]) 03:35, 26 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'm not sure about a page for the National Toy Hall of Fame (for comparison, we don't have pages for the museums that have G1 Grimlock or G1 Slag in their exhibits), but mentioning it on the pages of those two individuals sounds good. I would also recommend a mention on the [[Transformers brand]] page, as this concerns Transformers as a toy concept.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 07:04, 26 September 2016 (EDT)

== Easter eggs and homages ==

We usually try to point out Easter eggs and homages [http://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Nook&diff=1125477&oldid=1125466 such] [http://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Roboid&diff=1125475&oldid=1125465 as] [http://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Equinoid&diff=1124708&oldid=1120461 these], don't we?

--[[User:Rhymus|Rhymus]] ([[User talk:Rhymus|talk]]) 03:40, 26 September 2016 (EDT)
:Yeah, I think the fact that one of the Roboids looks like Nook should be pointed out on one or both of those pages. However, I wouldn't call the Equinoids MLP homages unless they're identifiable as based on specific ones, which I don't think is the case. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 13:48, 26 September 2016 (EDT)

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2016-10-02T15:14:12Z

Furhun: /* RID/G1 character merges */

__NEWSECTIONLINK__

This is the place for discussion of topics that affect the entire wiki. Some topics that would ordinarily be here have merited their own pages:

{{chapters|title=Specific Discussion Subjects|align=left|content=
<div class="list-header">'''Moving From Wikia:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving|Arriving]]
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<br/><div class="list-header">'''New Ad Policy:'''</div>
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<br/><div class="list-header">'''Bookworm Database-Crash:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central|Damage Control Central]]
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<br/><div class="list-header">'''Relicensing:'''</div>
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<br/><div class="list-header">'''Dealing With Vandalism:'''</div>
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<br/><div class="list-header">'''GoBots Sister Wiki:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/GoBots|Discussion on the place of GoBots in this wiki]]
<br/> <div class="list-header">'''Wiki Technical Information:'''</div>
* [[Transformers_Wiki:Tech|A Not So Brief Summary of the Horrible Things That McFly and Co. Have Done To Keep This Wiki From Melting Down]]
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{{:{{FULLPAGENAMEE}}/Archive}}


== IDW Revolution ==

So the preview for ''Rom'' #1 shows the EDC in it and we can probably expect more of this sort of thing. This could be a problem for recording stuff, since the EDC is a Transformers concept but if it becomes a ''Rom'' one too, we technically need to put a lot of Rom storylinks here.

So should we do a rule that it has to be ''specifically'' a Transformer appearing to get covered, and otherwise we'll put it in Notes ("the EDC also shoot Rom!!")? --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 17:17, 7 June 2016 (GMT)

:I think the closest thing we have to an existing standard is [[Unfoldings!|G.I. Joe #138]], a comic that is not an identified crossover with Transformers and contains the most minor of guest-appearances inside. The full issue is summarized on this site, and details of that issue appear in the fiction section of every character, even ones like [[Wild Bill]] who had no contact with Transformers whatsoever for the story.

:Beyond that "standard", though, you're right that we will need to establish a rule for when Hasbro/IDW Universe stories are covered. Only when Transformers appear in the issue? Transformers characters? Transformers concepts? If Blackrock appears in MASK #3, do we cover that issue based on that alone? What if there's also a one-panel flashback of Blackrock with Galvatron? Do we cover it then? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 12:50, 7 June 2016 (EDT)

::My two cents. If it's not a piece of Transformers fiction, it generally only gets mentioned in the notes, even if a nominally-TF character appears. Major characters (you can decide who fits) can tip the scales, and situations like GI Joe #138 get included because that issue is essential to understanding issue #139 (where the crossover is first explicitly mentioned, but where the action is already well in play as the issue opens, and #138 is necessary to understand how we got there. Note also that a major TF character appears in #138, if only briefly). These general guidelines should be able to suffice for the most part. --[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] ([[User talk:G.B. Blackrock|talk]]) 13:32, 7 June 2016 (EDT)

:::Disagree on #138. It's completely unnecessary for understanding #139 ("Megatron is attacking the castle!" is pretty clearly conveyed by the splash page), and it actually ''confuses'' the situation, since the shadowy conversation in #138 is ignored or outright contradicted later in the story.

:::But regardless, that brings us back around to "What's a major character?" Only Transformers? Pre-IDW humans like Fairborne, Spike, and Blackrock as well? Jimmy Pink and Jones? What if Battle Force 2000 encounters the Enigma of Combination? What if MASK travels to Cybertron, but no identifiable Transformers appear? I realize a lot of these questions can't be answered until it happens, but some idea where everyone sits on the matter should be established ahead of time, if we can. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 13:46, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::If it's not an explicit and branded crossover we should have minimal coverage. If an actual Transformer shows up in another book, we cover his appearance but that's it. 138 is probably covered in too much detail already. Transformers concepts and settings and human companions appearing in other books are notes. --[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 14:15, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::I think if a Transformer or other Clearly A Transformers-Franchise Character like Blackrock, Marissa, Spike, etc. shows up in another title's issue, than that issue should get fully covered as a crossover regardless of "branding." A TF-originated ''concept'', however, like the EDC, putting in an appearance probably doesn't need to be more than a note somewhere. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 14:49, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::No. We don't cover every Marvel Comics issue Death's Head's shown up in following his departure from the TF universe. And before you "WELL ACTUALLY" me, he's only not a Fully Legal Transformers Character on the most petty of technicalities. He was made to be a Transformers character and given a legal out to be used elsewhere without paying Hasbro.<br>
::::::AT MOST, non-Transformers books should be lumped together in a fiction section on the franchise in question's page. Personally I have grave doubts as to just how much character bleed there actually will be, as well as how long any of these titles are even going to ''last''. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 15:03, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::WELL ACTUALLY another difference there is that, like you said, Death's Head ''departed'' the TF universe. He was taken away from the TF franchise and given to Marvel-at-large. This has not happened with say, Marissa Fairborn, who is still a Transformers character. Her "home title" is still The Transformers. A hypothetical Marissa Fairborn guest appearance in an issue of M.A.S.K. is, IMO, just as much of a TF crossover as an appearance of, say, Cosmos or Soundwave would be. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 15:22, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::::Which should still be relegated to a singular fiction section on the not-Transformers franchise page. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 15:41, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::But the fact that that legal out was ''created'' would, I think, make him a Marvel-by-way-of-Transformers character. He may have been ''created'' for Transformers, but he was also created to be ''used'' outside Transformers. Plus, uh, what Kil said.
:::::::My proposal: only issues with Transformers in get their own pages; any other appearances of TF characters and concepts go on a single page for the whole franchise/comic. Doesn't leave anything out, but also doesn't overstep the wiki's bounds. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 15:44, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::::Death's Head's legal reality is exactly why he's in those non-Transformers stories in the first place; I don't think he's a good example. I think sticking to things that cannot exist out of a ''Transformers'' context (i.e. the Enigma of Combination, Optimus Prime, etc.) is a okay baseline. The EDC can always serve as a generic "defense against aggressive aliens" organization independent of Transformers, but things like the Matrix can't. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:56, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::Transformers get full writeups and bestow full writeup coverage on the issues in which they appear. TF-originating non-TF characters and concepts (Spike, EDC, the Enigma, cosmic rust) get very brief mentions within the main bodies of their articles, in proper chronological order in the IDW Fiction sections, with storylinks properly annotated; these storylinks would be redirected to the main non-TF-franchise comic page. IE "storylink|ROM #6" just goes to the ROM comic. ROM (character) does not have any of his own adventures chronicled ever except when he's doing it right next to a Transformer, regardless of title. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 19:11, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::"Transformers get full writeups and bestow full writeup coverage on the issues in which they appear." No. A one-panel cameo does not mean we write up the entire issue as its own article. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 19:34, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::We've got full pages for the non-Transformers Infestation comics and Unit:E, just putting that out there. It's not like covering issues in which Transformers appear is going to lead to people insisting we cover the entirety of okay actually I may be giving the average wiki user too much credit --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 19:46, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::::I'd much rather just lose the full page coverage for Unit E and non-TF Infestation than start giving it to all these new comics. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep|talk]]) 19:49, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::BINGO. It's not before anymore. We live in a very different world than when a lot of this wiki's "standards" were crafted. What worked when TFs was a healthy-yet-niche franchise, perhaps not so much now that it's being used as a tentpole for a lot of other things. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 20:27, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::Disagreed, I guess. I feel like if it's a book by a Hasbro licensee using their Transformers license to use Transformers in the story, it doesn't particularly matter what the name on the book is. Sure, if it's, like, a 1-panel flashback or something we wouldn't even mention otherwise, we can leave it out, but if they have a bigger role, it shouldn't need "The Transformers" on the cover to get a writeup. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:23, 8 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::I'm down with "Transformers get full writeups and bestow full writeup coverage on the issues in which they appear", with the caveat of "except when it's a minor cameo" (i.e. not Megatron showing up in Joe #138 as he's the cliffhanger but like how Nick Fury's making a cameo in TF #3 to go "look this guy's paying attention). Anything else goes in Notes unless & until it explicitly impacts on a Transformers comic, i.e. crossover stories. --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]} 04:05, 8 June 2016 GMT
::::::: Hum, so... Not a total coverage, got it. But some Locations have had their own articles just because they were in the Hasbro 'verse. All that Star Wars stuff for example is mostly unrelated. If there is such a thing like an official Hasbro 'verse... shouldn't we start to list planets from other continuities? Or does that also fall under the category of "only if a Transformer / EDC member ever puts his feet /wheels on it"? Other more precise locations may clearly not fit in here, but planets? I feel as if the Planets and stars existing in IDW's Rom are are much more observable from Earth or Cybertron than some other stuff we already have. Anyway, I'm just asking before I begin to do any unnecessary work.[[User:Xunk16|Xunk16]] ([[User talk:Xunk16|talk]]) 02:19, 23 September 2016 (EDT)
::::::::If it appears in an issue that we're covering (i.e. an issue with Transformers in), then it can get an article. If it doesn't, it doesn't. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 04:23, 23 September 2016 (EDT)

==Gobots Sister Wiki Progress==
Has anyone ever made any progress on the Gobots sister wiki? I have no experience in creating wikis, but would love to see this get made. -[[User:Halfshell25|Halfshell25]] ([[User talk:Halfshell25|talk]]) 19:21, 22 June 2016 (EDT)

== "Foreign Names" ==
The original Mandarin names of the Chinese MMO characters are not their "foreign names" and it is factually inaccurate to label them as such. The AVP replacement names are actually the "foreign" ones. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 08:45, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:Wouldn't the same objection apply to [[Ricochet (Headmasters)]] and the entirety of the Unicron Trilogy's characters? Perhaps a change to the title of the section would be appropriate, but I just read the heading as "names in a language other than English". --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 09:16, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::UT characters are in a much different position, since they were developed with both the English-speaking audience and the Japanese audience in mind, they weren't created for Japan and then imported elsewhere. I would also note that "Foreign names" isn't used to mean "names in a language other than English" on the Beastformers' articles, which list their English names under that header. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 09:56, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::What kind of a change would you suggest? Is it a matter of semantics, like we could change the headers to "International names"? Personally, I never thought the "Foreign names" header intimated something suggesting that the names were "secondary", just that we use English language names where appropriate and list the international/foreign ones at the bottom where appropriate. I don't think country of origin ever really factored into it. And we use the Foreign names section even when characters have the same names across languages, but render them in that language's alphabet for ease of reference (admittedly, we've been rather sloppy about that, particularly the similar Foreign localization sections of episodes where sometimes we list a language's info and sometimes we don't). While we could definitely stand to be more complete/precise across the board, I think altering the section titles based on country of origin would only confuse things for casual browsers. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 10:28, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::Honestly the main thing I wanna suggest is un-reverting the changes to the MMO characters back to "Original Mandarin Name" in place of "Foreign name" as that just more accurate, IMO. I also think that if the intent of the wiki is that "Foreign names" be read as "non-English names" then maybe "English" shouldn't actually appear under that header, as it does for Beastformers and Omni Producion dubs. And if "Foreign names" is actually supposed to mean "Names given to character in foreign markets" then should the name given in their ''original'' market actually be under there? Should a character's original name ever be labelled "foreign"? My gut instinct is to say "no" to that. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 11:16, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::They are foreign to our main readership, which is primarily Americans. That's what it means, regardless of whether the character is a foreign creation. We've had examples like [[Ricochet (Headmasters)|Ricochet/Stepper]], [[Snowblind|Snowblind/Beacon]], and [[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus Prime/Fire Convoy]] for years. Why is this any different? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 12:04, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::I don't know! Maybe it isn't! Maybe all characters should always have their original name listed as such instead of just being under the "Foreign names" header! Maybe they shouldn't! Maybe! --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:16, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::Foreign is always understood as being in relation to the speaker. As this wiki is English speaking, all non-English names are foreign, even if they are the original names for those characters. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:11, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::::Again, if "all non-English name are foreign" then maaaaaaaaybe the word "English" shouldn't be appearing beneath the "Foreign names" header on any articles? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:19, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::::That's a more valid point, though it is mainly used for the Omni Productions dub which is pretty foreign to anything close to English...or good.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:23, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::As we currently have it set up for English/Omni names, it looks like this:

*''English:'' '''Billy''' ([[Omni Productions]] dub), '''Blaster''' ([[Omni Productions]] dub Twincast)

While it seems pretty clear by having the Omni Productions note in parenthesis by the names, maybe it would look better like this?

*''English ([[Omni Productions]] dub):'' '''Billy''' (as Blaster), '''Blaster''' (as Twincast)

Is that better or worse or not even worth the effort? Personally, I don't have a dog in this race; I kinda think things are okay as-is. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 12:35, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:I was walking about the presence of "English" beneath a "Foreign names" header at all if the intended meaning of "Foreign names" is "non-English." So this isn't really addressing that? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:45, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::There isn't really any other good place for these names to go. Unless you want to elevate them to the level of legitimate English variants (like Hot Rod vs Rodimus Prime or Bluestreak vs Silverstreak). I would find it a lot more disturbing to see "Also known as Billy" in Blaster's intro. Oh, and I agree with Speng's new version of the listing. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:57, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::Okay, but then, what else could we call it? How else could we catalog that info? Should we put the Omni names at the top of the article alongside the "Sometimes he is known as..." notation at the bottom of the intro? I dunno if anybody would like that. I get what you're saying about having "English" under Foreign names when we default to English as a standard, but I'm not sure of a better way to catalog their Omni names aside from how we have it (English with Omni in parenthesis) (EDIT: Ah, Khajida beat me to the punch by 2 minutes). --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 12:59, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::I mean, I suppose just listing "Omni Productions Dub" without the word English next to it would read better? Or listing it's country of origin instead of language, rendering the meaning on "Foreign" as "non-American" rather than "non-English?" --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 13:05, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::The Omni dubs are a very strange situation, though, and probably not something we need to build a whole policy around. Surely if we have a working system in place that reads a little strange in this one case we don't need to revamp everything. We can make some kind of reasonable exception just for Omni and call it a day.--[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 13:39, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::Right. I think we're digressing from Kil's original complaint. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:38, 14 July 2016 (EDT)

== Striking Unit:E from the record ==

As someone who has been adding a bunch of pages for the newly introduced Hasbro properties that are part of IDW's Revolution, I think we're hitting a bit of a snag: Unit:E.
Unit:E was supposed to spin-out of Prime, which would put it in the Aligned continuity, while all the Revolution stuff is based in G1 continuity. As such, including info on both IDW Action Man and Unit:E Action Man on the same page doesn't make sense (especially when that page was built solely with IDW in mind.) However, this is a Transformers Wiki, and I don't think we need Action Man (IDW) and Action Man (Unit:E)
This kind of thing WILL spiral out of control, and will only get worse with things like G.I. Joe characters (who are all G1 based) and Micronauts (because Acroyear is so different between the two incarnations.)
As such, I propose that we set a precedent to excise ANY Unit:E-based material, with the exception of how it directly relates to the Transformers. Meaning the page on the actual group mentioned in Prime and the comic itself would stay, but unless Transformers were involved, the events aren't referenced. [[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 19:57 15 July 2016 (EST)
:Or we could just leave them on the same pages like we already are now. Don't overcomplicate things. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 20:27, 15 July 2016 (EDT)
::The way we handle non-Transformers original characters is to keep all appearances together on the same page. So, if Destro shows up in Animated, and again in G1, we don't make two articles. No need for an Action Man (Aligned) and an Action Man (G1) under this scheme. Having them on the same page is a simple and elegant solution. --[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 20:39, 15 July 2016 (EDT)
:::My issue with Unit:E is that none of the characters actually interact, and the multiversal nature of the story means that the Action Man featured there may not even have Transformers in his own universe, meaning his adventures would fall into the Megaverse, and thus outside this wiki's domain. The Unit:E information is therefore superfluous. Unit:E is also not a Transformers-branded piece of media. Notice we don't record the G.I. Joe events of Infestation. --[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 20:53 15 July 2015 (EST)
::::Because those issues do not have Transformers in them. Unit:E does, and I'm seriously having a hard time seeing the harm in detailing an one-shot issue that didn't amount to anything and that nobody else will cover. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 22:57, 15 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::The Unit:E stuff is G1 already though. Arcee, Jazz, Optimus Prime and Bumblebee are all seen as distinctly G1 incarnations of those characters. There isn't even a need to consider the fact that one spin-off is G1 and another is Aligned since that's not the case. --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron|talk]]) 00:40, 16 July 2016 (EDT)

== Aligned characters ==

[http://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/101932-tfwikinet-thread-30/page-247 As brought up here on the Allspark], is there any momentum to split the RiD2015 incarnations of characters such as [[Grimlock (WFC)]], [[Sideswipe (WFC)]], and [[Kickback (FOC)]]? A highly broken concept as it is, the Aligned continuity family does roughly fit together as one timeline. As the three aforementioned RiD characters quite obviously do not share the looks and personalities of the WfC/FoC characters, I, for one, do not see how to reconcile them as the WfC/FoC characters at a new stage of their lives. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 01:57, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
:Yeah, I've come around to the idea that they just don't have that much in common between names and altmodes (or, er, robot modes). I vote to split. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 04:52, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
::For the reasons I've laid out on the AllSpark and on Sideswipe (WFC)'s talk page, I also think they should be split. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 07:24, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
:::I also vote split. And just because I think this is a really useful way to conceptualize things, I want to repeat my formulation from the AllSpark thread:
::::''Let me present this little thought experiment. Let's say that the RID 15 guy was named "Trapjaw", an early name for Grimlock. Maybe for copyright reasons, maybe for creative reasons, we don't know specifically. Would we still be inclined to keep the pages merged? This is an issue that has been a part of the Transformers brand since 1984 (see: Jetfire and Skyfire, who do indeed share a page). Shockblasts comfortably share pages with Shockwaves, Silverstreaks with Bluestreaks, Jazzs with Meisters. Likewise, characters since G1 have shared names and yet not been the same characters: Sky High is the earliest example. In this case, take away the name, and is there any reason to keep them merged? If your answer to this question is no, then you should probably be in favor of a split. ''
:::I think this is an abstract enough test to be useful in a variety of cases where there is name reuse but little else. I've tested it against various counterexamples and (BW vs G1 Megatron, Octane and Tankor, various Unicron Trilogy Mini-Con nameslaps, toon vs comic Blaster) and it always seems to produce the 'correct' answer. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 09:52, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
::::This test is a fantastic measure and one I wholly advocate, but I'll note that this metric places ROTF and AOE Lockdown's merger on relatively shaky footing. Whether that's a good or bad thing is uncertain, but I'd say it's worth it to make sure these RID articles are split. [[User:Sky Shadow|Sky Shadow]] ([[User talk:Sky Shadow|talk]]) 08:29, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
[http://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/101932-tfwikinet-thread-30/?p=3302429 Spectre makes a good point here] about the distinctiveness of Grimlock and Sideswipe. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 21:26, 4 August 2016 (EDT)

So...absent any complaints or counter-arguments in the next 24 hours, I say we go ahead and begin splitting these three characters. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 10:38, 5 August 2016 (EDT)
:As much as my vote matters, I agree with splitting them. [[User:Stealthyboy|Stealthyboy]] ([[User talk:Stealthyboy|talk]]) 13:04, 5 August 2016 (EDT)

So far what I'm getting from the Allspark thread is that it's highly subjective whether anyone thinks FOC Grimlock and RID Grimlock should share a page because they're both based on G1 Grimlock, or whether the differences between the two characters are enough that they should get separate pages. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 19:37, 5 August 2016 (EDT)
: Really? I got the sense that there was one guy that really thought they should be together, several people that really thought they should be separate, and a few people who seemed on the fence. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 23:19, 5 August 2016 (EDT)
:: '''Keep''' them merged. Any argument for splitting them is either arbitrary and could be applied to numerous other characters ([[Brawl (Movie)]], [[Vortex (Movie)]], [[Sideswipe (Movie)]], [[Swerve (Movie)]], [[Hound (Movie)]] and [[Lockdown (ROTF)]], to name a few), or based on [[authorial intent]].--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 09:02, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
::: None of those guys have the same problem of irreconcilable fiction and lots of it, and none of them right now have new material coming up on a regular basis. (The only big issue there is Brawl because Titan went "oh uh it's twins" and in practice that's been easy to skim over) --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 14:52, 6 August 2016 (GMT)
::::Yeah, if we'd got any significant fiction for Movie 1 Hound or ROTF Lockdown, I'd argue that they should be split. Hell, I'm still not convinced that the Lockdowns should share a page, but I'm flexible on that. Most of the ones you've brought up, I would think should share a page only because they ''both'' are based on the same vague concept ''and'' don't have large amounts of fiction in contradictory incarnations. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 11:49, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
:::::I would be up for splitting Brawl, Vortex, Sideswipe, etc though I think it would be unnecessary give how little material their non-screen versions received. But we already have [[Jetfire (Movie)]] and [[Jetfire (ROTF)]] split despite the former having no fiction whatsoever. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 12:49, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
::::::I think, fundamentally, what it comes down to me is: ''will splitting help casual fans to understand better/stop them being confused?'' In the case of RID Grimlock, Sideswipe, and probably Kickback, I think that yes, it would. With Movie Hound and Sideswipe and Vortex, there's very little understanding that would be improved by doing so, and would likely just confuse fans searching for "movie Hound", etc. In the case of the Lockdowns, they're arguably the same character by virtue of Q-Transformers, though that's obviously kinda shaky. (And splitting Brawl would be the most unnecessary pedantry in the whole world, damn.) --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 15:14, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

:: I'd vote to keep them merged, with the stipulation that we add a note of some kind explaining the discrepancy. [[User:Grum|Grum]] ([[User talk:Grum|talk]]) 09:02, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

::Split. They're wildly different characters with no visual similarity and aren't based on the same toy (WFC Grimlock not even originally from a toy!) and it means anyone browsing to look up RID Grimlock, the one they most likely will be, atm has to get through a lot of different Grimlock. --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 14:46, 6 August 2016 (GMT)

A lot of what I'm hearing from the "Keep them merged" crowd is that they don't think some of the reasons for splitting are good reasons. Let me flip it around for a minute -- can anyone think of a ''benefit'' to keeping these characters merged? Besides a slippery-slope argument that it may, someday in the future, be used to justify other splits? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 10:03, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

Split. They're very different characters. And there's no conflict between Hasbro statements and author intent here; the most relevant Hasbro statement is the one that would indicate that FoC and RiD do take place in the same timeline, in which case there can be no "different interpretation of the same characters" between them; characters who cannot be the actual same individual at different times in the same timeline therefore must be different ones with the same name. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 15:02, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

Can I vote that there should be no blanket policy here, to just evaluate on a case-by-case basis? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 16:33, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
: Absolutely, and seconded. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 16:45, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

So I count '''Split: 10''' (Xaaron, SHIELD Agent 47, Charles RB, Jim S, Riptide, Sky Shadow, Stealthyboy, NovaSaber, abates, Sabrblade), '''Keep: 2''' (Nevermore, Grum), with no guiding hand from Admin/Owners. Can we go ahead with splitting these three characters, with the understanding that no larger administrative policy is being established, and future cases should still be evaluated on an individual basis? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 10:42, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
:I mentioned it on the Allspark, but I don't have any particularly strong preference so long it's applied consistently for all the applicable Aligned characters, and not just Grimlock. I do kind of question the sense in still treating Aligned like it's still a single timeline under Squint Test rules, since it seems reasonably certain, between RID Grimlock's existence and the departure of Hasbro folks like Archer, that that concept has been thrown out the window. But I also feel like splitting these characters has benefits in terms of accessibility for the casual user, and I guess that's why I'm not going to vote against – I think I probably would if it felt entirely like meaningless "furniture rearrangement" (as Sipher puts it). I think it's worth putting out one final call for people to 'vote' on the Allspark thread before going ahead with the split. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 11:19, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
::Also, as a postscript: if the splits do go ahead, links will need updating pretty hasty-like, or else there'll be a hell of a lot of potential for confusion. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 11:26, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
:::Relinked episodes 1-12 and the main RID series page so far. Moving on to the non-show relinks now. --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 02:00, 8 August 2016 (GMT)
::::Every image and linked-to non-TV-story on Grim's page has been relinked, plus the RID toyline page. Just the rest of the eps and other character's pages to go--[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 02:30, 8 August 2016 (GMT)
:::::Eps and main Autobots relinked--[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 02:50, 8 August 2016 (GMT)
::::::I think I've got all of the remaining articles, so there's just a pile of images with links to the wrong Grimlock in their descriptions. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 07:11, 8 August 2016 (EDT)
:Throwing my vote in while I still can. I said it on The Allspark an will say it here that I'm in favor of splitting the Grimlock, Sideswipe, and Kickback articles. Although... [[Blurr (Prime)]] might be a fourth contender for splitting as well, but I'm not as eager to see that one split as the other three, so I won't fight for that one as much if enough people object to splitting the Blurr page. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 14:27, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
::Hrm. Yeah, I'd say split the Blurrs, too. They've really only got "car what goes fast" in common, and really, what ''else'' is a bot called Blurr going to turn into? With that one in particular, they're so different that there's no way to reconcile them for an opening paragraph other than the faux-narrative of "first he was this, then he was this". --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:38, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
:I'm actually in favour of split. Not sure I'm particularly worried about Kickback, but Grimlock and Sideswipe definitely. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 18:34, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
Starting on Sideswipe now. Though, come to think of it, is it necessary to title ''Robots in Disguise'' Sideswipe at "Sideswipe (RID 2015)" since the 2001 guy has a space in his name? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 11:15, 8 August 2016 (EDT)
::No, strictly speaking it wouldn't need the 2015, though it's probably a case where an argument could be made for making an exception? [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 12:36, 8 August 2016 (EDT)

== Generations toyline page ==

A thought: do the ''Combiner Wars'' and ''Titans Return'' sublines merit their own pages? The [[Transformers: Generations|''Generations'' page]] has exceeded the length of even the [[The Transformers (toyline)|U.S. G1 toyline page]], and barring some unforeseen financial disaster at Hasbro, we know that the Prime Wars Trilogy will get another entry after ''Titans Return''. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 16:28, 14 August 2016 (EDT)
:I agree. Given how the "''Combiner Wars''" and "''Titans Return''" names overshadow the "''Generations''" name on the packaging, I think we should give them their own page. The fact that each also has a [[Combiner Wars (franchise)|franchise]] [[Titans Return (franchise)|page]] I think warrants this expansion. --[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 18:20, 14 August 2016 (EDT)
:I'm on board with that.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 06:27, 15 August 2016 (EDT)
::Given that Combiner Wars, Titans Return and the next line are under the "Prime Wars" umbrella, maybe we should make a Prime Wars subpage for Generations, similar to the way certain character pages have a separate Toys page, and put the toys in those three lines on that page.[[User:Stealthyboy|Stealthyboy]] ([[User talk:Stealthyboy|talk]]) 17:10, 18 August 2016 (EDT)
Anyone in opposition to this motion? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 00:09, 21 August 2016 (EDT)
:Splitting is probably the least unwieldy option, or will be eventually, so I don't see why not. [[User:Item42|Item42]] ([[User talk:Item42|talk]]) 00:32, 21 August 2016 (EDT)
I'd been considering this myself for a while. My suggestion, I guess, would be splitting it three ways, by logo/branding - original, FOC/T30, and Prime Wars. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 04:45, 21 August 2016 (EDT)
:I think the original Deluxe line, FoC, and T30 can all stay on the same Generations page since their packaging has "Transformers: Generations" as the main thing. I'd even argue splitting up Combiner Wars and Titans Return into their own pages given that (as far as I know) Prime Wars wasn't mentioned on their toy packaging. --[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 11:55, 21 August 2016 (EDT)
::Of course the argument "size of the logo on the packaging" opens a whole can of worms again regarding ''[[Reveal the Shield]]'', which we currently consider a [[subline imprint]] of [[Transformers (2010 toyline)|''Transformers'' (2010)]]… Long story short, the title "Reveal the Shield" on the packaging has the same size and font and all as the concurrently available original ''[[Transformers: Generations|Generations]]'' Deluxe line's title (seriouly, just judging from the packaging alone, [http://imgur.com/a/Mhhjr how is the right one a toy line and the left one only a subline imprint]?)… on the other hand, all the ''Reveal the Shield'' assortments were continued from the 2010 ''Transformers'' line's general retail assortments ([http://imgur.com/B2YWKYd same assortment numbers]), which were simpy branded ''Transformers'' with additional stickers for the ''[[Hunt for the Decepticons]]'' promotion and Jesus Christ on a bicycle 2010's branding was confusing as hell.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 15:34, 22 August 2016 (EDT)
:::''Combiner Wars'' and ''Titans Return'', though, are subline imprints with noteworthy fiction due to their status as multimedia branding. If and when I get to separating out the toylines into their own articles, I believe I will focus on those two. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 23:40, 25 August 2016 (EDT)

== Masterforce humans and transtectors ==

Um, why are we separating the human Minerva, Ginrai, etc. from the robot Minerva, Ginrai, etc? Especially considering that we just fairly recently combined the organic Nebulan Peacemaker (et al.) and the robotic Peaceman (et al.). --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:39, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
:Well, it's not really a comparable situation to Peacemaker and co. - this is robot and human versions of the same character co-existing together in the same world, not a character being variably robot or human in different universes. With new fiction (and probably more to come) of the humans and robots off doing separate stuff, splitting them out is probably the solution that leads to the least-confusing biography write-ups... [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 12:46, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
::We already did this almost two years ago for [[Shūta Gō]] and [[Goshooter]] when they appeared simultaneously in order to keep track of them better. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 12:49, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
:::What Jalaguy said. Otherwise we get alternating paragraphs of human and robot Minerva fiction which only confuse readers. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 16:16, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
::::Should their toys be split onto subpages as well then? It seems redundant to have exactly the same section on both pages.[[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 17:10, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
:::::They're not that long and they don't have the exact same set of toys. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 17:14, 30 August 2016 (EDT)

==Bios by Universal Stream==
For characters like Jhiaxus who have totally different personalities, I think we should have individual bios placed above their fiction. Though we do note that certain characters have wildly different portrayals, we never really explain their personality, simply listing what happens in their fictional appearances. This could also count for locations as well. For example, Cybertron is a very different planet in several continuities, yet we don't usually have individual descriptions of each version. Currently we (for the most part) only list the history of the planet, not its defining physical characteristics. I'm not talking about a long bio, just a few sentences to clarify the differences with its other versions. Does anyone else agree? --[[User:Halfshell25|Halfshell25]] 12:31, 04 September 2016 (EDT)

== Titan Master toy info accessibility ==

To account for ''Titans Return'' Titan Masters whose names and personalities match the large classic dudes instead of the small classic dudes they tend to physically resemble, I have added links in the 1980s Nebulans' toy sections pointing to the large guy's ''Titans Return'' toys. How does everyone feel about this? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 22:23, 8 September 2016 (EDT)
:Sounds good to me. I was going to put the full entries on their pages, but this probably works better. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 06:57, 9 September 2016 (EDT)
::Personalities? I am intrigued. How do you know what their personalities are? There are no bios or anything. - [[User:Gimmick|Gimmick]] ([[User talk:Gimmick|talk]]) 18:18, 9 September 2016 (EDT)
:::Haven't you seen the packaging backsides? Or the [[Titans Return: The Power of the Titan Masters|available on the Internet catalog]]? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 19:25, 9 September 2016 (EDT)
::::I know about the catalog bios, but the single-packed Titan Masters really don't have bios anywhere on their package. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 20:28, 9 September 2016 (EDT)
:::::Yeah, the single-packed TMs don't have their bios on their packaging, just in the storybook/catalogue and on their Hasbro.com listings. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 08:02, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
::::::I haven't read the Comic-Con storybook, but thanks for the heads up on the Hasbro.com bios. The Wiki could probably say more about that. Although I think I would rather not have known that some Titan Masters have their big-guy personality just because in the real life universe, their toy was packaged individually. Personal canon: Titan Master Fangry's superpower is that he comes with Google Maps preinstalled. - [[User:Gimmick|Gimmick]] ([[User talk:Gimmick|talk]]) 10:49, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
:Should the same system be used for [[Emissary (Generations)|Emissary]] on [[Spike_Witwicky_(G1)|Spike]] and [[Galen Kord|Galen's]] pages? At the moment the full entry for Emissary is on Spike's page with nothing on Galen's, even though the G1 toy is on both. [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 07:06, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
::Emissary is designed to look like Spike and Galen's armor, though. That's more in common than there is between the single Titan Masters and their corresponding Nebulans, who basically have "turns into the same head" as the only reason to associate them. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 14:59, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I suppose, but there are a lot of toys that look very similar to a previous character but aren't on their page. [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 11:34, 12 September 2016 (EDT)

== Add links to uploaded videos of episodes in the articles for episodes? ==

I have been watching the G1 on dailymotion and all thanks to this wiki, I just check the list of episodes and look for it in a couple of chosen favorite channels.
I thought that maybe it'd be cool if we could simply add links to the episodes in the articles themselves?

As a bonus, we could also form a team and:
* Set up our own channel.
* Collect the best quality versions of the episodes from various sources.
* Link to those videos in the articles. --[[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 03:20, 14 September 2016 (EDT)
:Nope. The wiki is ''not'' going to endorse piracy. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 03:28, 14 September 2016 (EDT)
::That would give Hasbro a nice, easy reason to shut the wiki down, which is not what we're after. When it's all out for purchase, it's not fair to them to put it up illegally. [[User:AkibaSilver|AkibaSilver]] ([[User talk:AkibaSilver|talk]]) 08:31, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:Christ no. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 15:25, 15 September 2016 (EDT)

== Animation/continuity errors ==

Hey, this is just a little thing - I'm not proposing anything, just mentioning this with a view to moving forward, but I really dislike how on episode pages we put errors first. I get why, it's a carryover from our G1 episode pages being some of the first things we ever did, and errors being perhaps the most famous, most catalogue-able thing about that series. But it's an out-of-place, and frankly I think demeaning, thing to have as the first entry for an average modern cartoon episode when there's plenty of other, more "relevant" information to provide ahead of mistakes. We don't do it for comics, and I don't like it on episodes either. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 14:06, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'd say go ahead and make a proposal to change it. You have my vote behind you. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 14:49, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'm beyond okay with this and absolutely in favor of making this a broad-scale change to existing pages. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 15:13, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:Yup, also very much behind this. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 15:21, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:If we're re-ordering anyway, does anyone else think it would be more informative to "continuity errors" always follow "continuity notes" for episodes that have both, even if it means "continuity errors" is no longer consecutive with "animation and technical errors"? [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 15:51, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
::I wouldn't be adverse to making the errors a subset of notes, really. I mean, a continuity error IS technically a note about continuity. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 16:05, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I'm not sure, with modern shows, that we even ''need'' separate sections for "continuity errors" and "animation errors." Again, with G1 - yes, we did, because there were so many. But such things are so rare now that a simple "Errors" section seems like all we need to everything effectively.
::::Ehn, I feel like keeping all the continuity bits together, be they complimentary or clashing, makes more sense than lumping the continuity-clashes with "someone forgot to texture that panel in that one shot". --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 16:15, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
::I agree. Although, personally, I don't see a reason to bundle it up under one "Errors" heading. As a reader, I would like them to be under relevant headings. --[[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 14:29, 18 September 2016 (EDT)

== Japanese UT character disambig tags ==

Would anyone object to me simplifying the tags "(Micron Densetsu)", "(Super Link)", and "(Galaxy Force)" for Japanese-original Unicron Trilogy characters with such tags down to just "(MD)", "(SL)", and "(GF)"? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 00:48, 20 September 2016 (EDT)
:Go for it! --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 01:09, 20 September 2016 (EDT)

== RID/G1 character merges ==

What with the steadily increasing numbers of RID 2001 characters imported into Generation 1 based continuities with basically no differences, I feel like we should probably just merge their G1 counterparts into the RID pages and be done with it, especially with the blurred lines of Car Robots involved; we're already doing so for Wind Sheer and Skyfire. This would (probably) mean merging the following pages:
* Bruticus (CR) into [[Bruticus (RID)]]
* [[Cryotek (Universe)]] into [[Cryotek (RID)]]
* Dark Scream (G1) into [[Dark Scream]]
* Emissary (BW) into [[Emissary (RID)]]
* Gigatron (G1) into [[Megatron (RID)]]
* [[Jhiaxus (RID)]] into [[Jhiaxus (G2)]]
* Side Burn (G1) into [[Side Burn (RID)]] (arguable)
* Sky-Byte (G2) into [[Sky-Byte (RID)]]
* Slapper (Universe) into [[Slapper (RID)]]
* And probably [[Predacon (RID)]] into [[Predacon (BW)]] as well; the latter kind of needs a more continuity-neutral reformat anyway.
I just feel like all these fairly arbitrary splits for guys who are intended to be ''pretty much'' the same characters, coupled with the explanatory blocks of text about Japanese G1 continuity, is making this more complicated than it needs to be. Thoughs? --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 11:54, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:Yup. About time too. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 12:04, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'm down. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 12:11, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:[[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive60#Probably an unpopular thought, but...|Always been for it.]] I'm not sure if I'm on board with Hasbro-original characters like Jhiaxus and Cryotek, but I'll accept them if it means the CR guys get merged. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 12:21, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:Oppose. RID is not only a separate continuity, but also a separate multiversal stream. To start merging these characters just because they're broadly similar doesn't really make sense. After all, ''Animated'' [[Ransack (Animated)|Ransack]] and [[Crumplezone (Animated)|Crumplezone]] are practically identical in personality and design to their ''Cybertron'' counterparts, but we acknowledge them as separate distinct entities. And characters imported into G1 like Sky-Byte have shown up in three different continuities. Would this also mean ''Universe'' [[Ratchet (Universe)|Ratchet]] gets folded in with G1 [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]]? Plus, this could lead to confusion by someone wondering "Why isn't all the info about Fire Truck Optimus with Old Optimus?" I think by this point we're long past merging RID and G1 in any form other than the brief "in Japan, this cartoon is G1 because dumb reasons." --[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 12:47, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::The difference between G1 and RID is inherently different to the difference between G1 and Animated because of Car Robots. People wouldn't wonder why RID Optimus wasn't with G1 Optimus because they have distinct designs and personalities, and have existed in the same continuity. We already have different incarnations of the same character from separate continuity families sharing pages, so it's not like this is going to start a slippery slope. (And no, Universe and G1 Ratchet would not be merged, for the same reason that RID and G1 Prowl would not be merged.) --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 13:02, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:::The only slippery slope involved here is the one we're already sliding down that involves more and more RID characters appearing in G1 stories that makes this a more plausible action to take. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:06, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:::Except this wiki has always used the American-based fiction as it's primary source, where RID is separate from everything. And even Car Robots being G1 is the result of a freaking RETCON. I'd even argue that any characters who do have multiple continuities on their page be split (though the only examples that come to mind are former Multiversal Singularities like Unicron or Vector Prime, which were only created that way ''because'' they were multiversal singularities.)

:::Also, If I end up getting out voted on this, I'd at least like to argue against merging Side Burn, Jhiaxus, and GIgatron/Megatron. Because G1 Side Burn does differ from RID in a few notable ways (most notably NOT being brother to a guy named Prowl), Jhiaxus is more of a repurposing, and not only is there already a Megatron in the IDW comics, there's a Gigatron in the Animated universe that is also based on RID Megs. And if we're merging BW Bruticus into RID Bruticus, we'd also have to merge TF 2010 Backstop, Underbite, and Wreckloose in with their Cybertron counterparts. All in all, this seems like it's becoming more of a headache than just keeping them separate.--[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 14:41, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::::This is kind of a weird string of complaints that don't really logically bear on anything. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:17, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'd be fine with this. Certainly seems preferable to weird crap like Sky-Byte having Japanese G1 fiction on one article and Hasbro G1 fiction on another. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]])
:I agree with the general idea and most of the examples, but I'd say Jhiaxus isn't really the same situation as the rest. I'm not sure about the factions either. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 14:45, 21 September 2016 (EDT)

Some other stuff that could stand to be merged:
*Hound (RID) into [[Hound (G1)]]
*Sky Lynx (RID) into [[Sky Lynx (G1)]]
*Teletraan I (RID) into Teletraan I (G1)
Mmmmmmaybe [[Alpha Trion (RID)]]? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 13:38, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:Three "CHRIST YES"es, and a "hmnnn." - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:41, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:For what it's worth, [[Ultra Trion]]'s "Trion" bits do sure look like they came off of G1 A3... --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:15, 21 September 2016 (EDT)

How do we feel about the likes of [[Ransack (IDW)|Ransack]]? Could he stand to be merged into his ''Cybertron'' page? --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee|talk]]) 15:22, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:Eh, hang on I think I'm caught up now. Without ''Car Robots'' there's no link to G1 so he's a separate character unlike the RID guys. Is that right? --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee|talk]]) 15:27, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::Yeah, that's a separate discussion (and a merge I'd disagree with, but let's focus on the RID guys for now). [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:35, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I agree that they should be merged except Jhiaxus.--[[User:Primestar3|Primestar3]] ([[User talk:Primestar3|talk]]) 15:38, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:I think I'd be against merging anyone from different continuity families other than between G1/BW and RiD. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 15:55, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::That seems to be a reasonable rule of thumb. --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee|talk]]) 16:09, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::To be honest, I'd be kind of inclined to merge the BWU Micromaster/Mini-Con repurposings as well, just because both iterations of the characters are so insignificant, and AVP seemed to make a point of having a lot of Mini-Cons exist across continuity families... but that's a separate argument and one with no real solid logic behind it. In this particular instance, yes, leave it as G1 and RID. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 16:16, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
I'm not sure exactly what position to take, but I would say that Hasbro-original characters are somewhat different from the guys who share a CR/RiD cartoon narrative. Thus, I think RiD Alpha Trion should be looked at the same way as RiD Optimus Prime and RiD Ultra Magnus. And to add to the list of pages up for consideration:
*Plasma into [[Cerebros (RID)]]
Also, I note that the one-off text mention of IDW G1 Side Burn. Anyone know if that iteration is tied to RiD 2001 Side Burn or is an independent conception? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 16:32, 21 September 2016 (EDT)

So should we merge Cryotek and Jhiaxus? I opposed it back when because there was no real reason to while we had the others split, but now I think that it's a close enough situation that they should be merged, even if they don't have Car Robots equivalents; it's still "RID guy is used in a G1 universe". (Plus, Bruticus only has a "Car Robots" counterpart because of AVP fiction, so merging him solely on that basis while leaving the other Hasbro-originals separate feels overly nitpicky.) --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 09:02, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
:I feel like Jhiaxus is more "RID Optimus Prime and G1 Optimus Prime"—he would have had his article all along if it wasn't for 3H saying it was the original Jhiaxus. I admit I don't have an argument for Cryotek. Just preference. If you want to merge them, *shrug* [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 09:16, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
::I think they should remain separate. RiD Cryotek and Jhiaxus had independent Viron existences in the first place due to their toys, and I think their personalities are distinct. That their toys were repurposed is like ''Prime'' Ratchet's design getting repurposed in G1 for that X-Files Hearts of Steel story. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 10:33, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I think, at least in the case of Jhiaxus, "distinct personality" doesn't matter that much, because he's never been consistent. Really, I just think it's neater to have them together if the other RID characters are, especially since they both predate recent official repurposing trends; 3H's thinking was probably "Cryotek is Cryotek"/"Jhiaxus is Jhiaxus". --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 10:39, 22 September 2016 (EDT)

Wait, better argument: we're already keeping the Hasbro-original, toyline-only characters Skyfire and Wind Sheer merged across continuity families, and it'd be patently silly to split them out. I don't want to argue for consistency above all things, but in this matter, I think it'd be a good idea. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 12:42, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
:Okay, I do not necessarily agree, but I can see a case to be made that similarly to Wind Sheer and Skyfire, Cryotek is a Hasbro RiD-original guy who was extended into G1. But that does not apply to Jhiaxus. G2 Jhiaxus existed by himself for a decade before the independent RiD toy came along. RiD Jhiaxus by our policies and by logic should remain an independent page. Otherwise, we should merge ''Prime'' Ratchet into G1 Ratchet's page. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 04:20, 23 September 2016 (EDT)
::Really? Because his page only got built when I mentioned his name in Ask Vector Prime as a continuity patch as far as I know. That hardly seems like a cut-and-dried case. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 07:41, 23 September 2016 (EDT)
:::Yeah, I think that the fact that for a decade and a half the ''only'' use of RID Jhiaxus was as the G2 character makes it more fair to fudge categorization for the sake of consistency. Plus, as I said, G2 Jhiaxus is already both "tyrannical leader" and "sycophantic scientist"; is "dedicated, loyal lieutenant" that much of a step away? (Hell, you could even look at it as a halfway point between the two...)

:I disagree. One of the things I like about this wiki, is the fact that every continuity get's its own share of articles. And RID and G1 are not even part of the same continuity family. I don't see why it's even being considered and agreed to. Also, they weren't just different families, but RID is a japanese cartoon.
:You say that there are virtually no differences, so I assume that they look identical to their G1 counterparts, but what about the story? Take hound for example. I haven't watched the cartoon so I don't know, but if he didn't get a redesign, does that mean that he wasn't relevant to the story either? If that is the case, then I guess it won't kill to merge.
:And why would you want to merge the Predacon(BW) with Predacon(RID)? The BW Predacons came after the decepticons, and are rather like their descendants or successors, while in RID, the decepticons are like a really small sub-group of the Predacons. That alone, I believe shows that it makes no sense to merge the two. --[[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 09:44, 24 September 2016 (EDT)
::Surely that's more of an argument for splitting the Decepticons, then? I think if the Autobots and Decepticons are broadly similar enough across continuities to have only one page for each, the same's true of the BW/RID Predacons. (The Prime Predacons have a different insignia, story role and altmodes, so they wouldn't be merged.) --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 12:14, 24 September 2016 (EDT)
:::Let's compare the two, shall we?
:::Similarities:
:::* Both evil.
:::* Both led by a Megatron.
:::* Both transform into animals.

:::Differences:
:::* The RID Predacons have a long lasting enmity with Autobots while the BW Predacons have it with the Maximals.
:::* The BW Predacons were descended or derived from the Decepticons, while in RID, the Decepticons were a subgroup of the Predacons.
:::* Predacon Council vs Tripedacus Council
:::* The RID Predacons are rougly the same size as the Autobots while the average BW Predacons are smaller than Prime's head.
:::* Virtually no similarity at all between the story.
:::* Not a single common character. Megatron doesn't count (also he seems closer to the G1 Megatron than the Beast Megatron.)--[[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 11:14, 2 October 2016 (EDT)
::Hound wasn't ''in'' the RiD cartoon; or toyline, for that matter. Some guy who looks like Hound just had a small role in a convention story whose continuity family wasn't even confirmed until Ask Vector Prime said it was a "Viron" universe. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 12:06, 24 September 2016 (EDT)

== National Toy Hall of Fame nomination ==

The Transformers toyline is 1 of 12 nominees (2 or 3 will be inducted) to the [[wikipedia:National_Toy_Hall_of_Fame|National Toy Hall of Fame]], according to http://www.toyhalloffame.org/2016-finalists (which uses as an illustration the most prominent and sought-after of all Transformers, [[Topspin_(G1)#Generation_1|G1 Topspin]]).

On the http://www.toyhalloffame.org/ main page (which uses a [http://www.tfu.info/1986/Autobot/Metroplex/metroplex.htm G1 Metroplex] with broken/missing parts as an illustration) visitors can vote for their favorite nominee.

i feel like this is relevant to the wiki, but i'm not sure where to put it. Possibly a new article for the National Toy Hall of Fame? (Maybe also under Notes/Trivia in Topspin's and Metroplex's articles?)

--[[User:Rhymus|Rhymus]] ([[User talk:Rhymus|talk]]) 03:35, 26 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'm not sure about a page for the National Toy Hall of Fame (for comparison, we don't have pages for the museums that have G1 Grimlock or G1 Slag in their exhibits), but mentioning it on the pages of those two individuals sounds good. I would also recommend a mention on the [[Transformers brand]] page, as this concerns Transformers as a toy concept.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 07:04, 26 September 2016 (EDT)

== Easter eggs and homages ==

We usually try to point out Easter eggs and homages [http://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Nook&diff=1125477&oldid=1125466 such] [http://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Roboid&diff=1125475&oldid=1125465 as] [http://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Equinoid&diff=1124708&oldid=1120461 these], don't we?

--[[User:Rhymus|Rhymus]] ([[User talk:Rhymus|talk]]) 03:40, 26 September 2016 (EDT)
:Yeah, I think the fact that one of the Roboids looks like Nook should be pointed out on one or both of those pages. However, I wouldn't call the Equinoids MLP homages unless they're identifiable as based on specific ones, which I don't think is the case. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 13:48, 26 September 2016 (EDT)

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2016-09-24T14:01:29Z

Furhun: /* RID/G1 character merges */

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2016-09-24T14:00:30Z

Furhun: /* RID/G1 character merges */

__NEWSECTIONLINK__

This is the place for discussion of topics that affect the entire wiki. Some topics that would ordinarily be here have merited their own pages:

{{chapters|title=Specific Discussion Subjects|align=left|content=
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{{:{{FULLPAGENAMEE}}/Archive}}


== IDW Revolution ==

So the preview for ''Rom'' #1 shows the EDC in it and we can probably expect more of this sort of thing. This could be a problem for recording stuff, since the EDC is a Transformers concept but if it becomes a ''Rom'' one too, we technically need to put a lot of Rom storylinks here.

So should we do a rule that it has to be ''specifically'' a Transformer appearing to get covered, and otherwise we'll put it in Notes ("the EDC also shoot Rom!!")? --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 17:17, 7 June 2016 (GMT)

:I think the closest thing we have to an existing standard is [[Unfoldings!|G.I. Joe #138]], a comic that is not an identified crossover with Transformers and contains the most minor of guest-appearances inside. The full issue is summarized on this site, and details of that issue appear in the fiction section of every character, even ones like [[Wild Bill]] who had no contact with Transformers whatsoever for the story.

:Beyond that "standard", though, you're right that we will need to establish a rule for when Hasbro/IDW Universe stories are covered. Only when Transformers appear in the issue? Transformers characters? Transformers concepts? If Blackrock appears in MASK #3, do we cover that issue based on that alone? What if there's also a one-panel flashback of Blackrock with Galvatron? Do we cover it then? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 12:50, 7 June 2016 (EDT)

::My two cents. If it's not a piece of Transformers fiction, it generally only gets mentioned in the notes, even if a nominally-TF character appears. Major characters (you can decide who fits) can tip the scales, and situations like GI Joe #138 get included because that issue is essential to understanding issue #139 (where the crossover is first explicitly mentioned, but where the action is already well in play as the issue opens, and #138 is necessary to understand how we got there. Note also that a major TF character appears in #138, if only briefly). These general guidelines should be able to suffice for the most part. --[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] ([[User talk:G.B. Blackrock|talk]]) 13:32, 7 June 2016 (EDT)

:::Disagree on #138. It's completely unnecessary for understanding #139 ("Megatron is attacking the castle!" is pretty clearly conveyed by the splash page), and it actually ''confuses'' the situation, since the shadowy conversation in #138 is ignored or outright contradicted later in the story.

:::But regardless, that brings us back around to "What's a major character?" Only Transformers? Pre-IDW humans like Fairborne, Spike, and Blackrock as well? Jimmy Pink and Jones? What if Battle Force 2000 encounters the Enigma of Combination? What if MASK travels to Cybertron, but no identifiable Transformers appear? I realize a lot of these questions can't be answered until it happens, but some idea where everyone sits on the matter should be established ahead of time, if we can. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 13:46, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::If it's not an explicit and branded crossover we should have minimal coverage. If an actual Transformer shows up in another book, we cover his appearance but that's it. 138 is probably covered in too much detail already. Transformers concepts and settings and human companions appearing in other books are notes. --[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 14:15, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::I think if a Transformer or other Clearly A Transformers-Franchise Character like Blackrock, Marissa, Spike, etc. shows up in another title's issue, than that issue should get fully covered as a crossover regardless of "branding." A TF-originated ''concept'', however, like the EDC, putting in an appearance probably doesn't need to be more than a note somewhere. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 14:49, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::No. We don't cover every Marvel Comics issue Death's Head's shown up in following his departure from the TF universe. And before you "WELL ACTUALLY" me, he's only not a Fully Legal Transformers Character on the most petty of technicalities. He was made to be a Transformers character and given a legal out to be used elsewhere without paying Hasbro.<br>
::::::AT MOST, non-Transformers books should be lumped together in a fiction section on the franchise in question's page. Personally I have grave doubts as to just how much character bleed there actually will be, as well as how long any of these titles are even going to ''last''. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 15:03, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::WELL ACTUALLY another difference there is that, like you said, Death's Head ''departed'' the TF universe. He was taken away from the TF franchise and given to Marvel-at-large. This has not happened with say, Marissa Fairborn, who is still a Transformers character. Her "home title" is still The Transformers. A hypothetical Marissa Fairborn guest appearance in an issue of M.A.S.K. is, IMO, just as much of a TF crossover as an appearance of, say, Cosmos or Soundwave would be. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 15:22, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::::Which should still be relegated to a singular fiction section on the not-Transformers franchise page. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 15:41, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::But the fact that that legal out was ''created'' would, I think, make him a Marvel-by-way-of-Transformers character. He may have been ''created'' for Transformers, but he was also created to be ''used'' outside Transformers. Plus, uh, what Kil said.
:::::::My proposal: only issues with Transformers in get their own pages; any other appearances of TF characters and concepts go on a single page for the whole franchise/comic. Doesn't leave anything out, but also doesn't overstep the wiki's bounds. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 15:44, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::::Death's Head's legal reality is exactly why he's in those non-Transformers stories in the first place; I don't think he's a good example. I think sticking to things that cannot exist out of a ''Transformers'' context (i.e. the Enigma of Combination, Optimus Prime, etc.) is a okay baseline. The EDC can always serve as a generic "defense against aggressive aliens" organization independent of Transformers, but things like the Matrix can't. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:56, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::Transformers get full writeups and bestow full writeup coverage on the issues in which they appear. TF-originating non-TF characters and concepts (Spike, EDC, the Enigma, cosmic rust) get very brief mentions within the main bodies of their articles, in proper chronological order in the IDW Fiction sections, with storylinks properly annotated; these storylinks would be redirected to the main non-TF-franchise comic page. IE "storylink|ROM #6" just goes to the ROM comic. ROM (character) does not have any of his own adventures chronicled ever except when he's doing it right next to a Transformer, regardless of title. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 19:11, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::"Transformers get full writeups and bestow full writeup coverage on the issues in which they appear." No. A one-panel cameo does not mean we write up the entire issue as its own article. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 19:34, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::We've got full pages for the non-Transformers Infestation comics and Unit:E, just putting that out there. It's not like covering issues in which Transformers appear is going to lead to people insisting we cover the entirety of okay actually I may be giving the average wiki user too much credit --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 19:46, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::::I'd much rather just lose the full page coverage for Unit E and non-TF Infestation than start giving it to all these new comics. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep|talk]]) 19:49, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::BINGO. It's not before anymore. We live in a very different world than when a lot of this wiki's "standards" were crafted. What worked when TFs was a healthy-yet-niche franchise, perhaps not so much now that it's being used as a tentpole for a lot of other things. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 20:27, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::Disagreed, I guess. I feel like if it's a book by a Hasbro licensee using their Transformers license to use Transformers in the story, it doesn't particularly matter what the name on the book is. Sure, if it's, like, a 1-panel flashback or something we wouldn't even mention otherwise, we can leave it out, but if they have a bigger role, it shouldn't need "The Transformers" on the cover to get a writeup. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:23, 8 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::I'm down with "Transformers get full writeups and bestow full writeup coverage on the issues in which they appear", with the caveat of "except when it's a minor cameo" (i.e. not Megatron showing up in Joe #138 as he's the cliffhanger but like how Nick Fury's making a cameo in TF #3 to go "look this guy's paying attention). Anything else goes in Notes unless & until it explicitly impacts on a Transformers comic, i.e. crossover stories. --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]} 04:05, 8 June 2016 GMT
::::::: Hum, so... Not a total coverage, got it. But some Locations have had their own articles just because they were in the Hasbro 'verse. All that Star Wars stuff for example is mostly unrelated. If there is such a thing like an official Hasbro 'verse... shouldn't we start to list planets from other continuities? Or does that also fall under the category of "only if a Transformer / EDC member ever puts his feet /wheels on it"? Other more precise locations may clearly not fit in here, but planets? I feel as if the Planets and stars existing in IDW's Rom are are much more observable from Earth or Cybertron than some other stuff we already have. Anyway, I'm just asking before I begin to do any unnecessary work.[[User:Xunk16|Xunk16]] ([[User talk:Xunk16|talk]]) 02:19, 23 September 2016 (EDT)
::::::::If it appears in an issue that we're covering (i.e. an issue with Transformers in), then it can get an article. If it doesn't, it doesn't. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 04:23, 23 September 2016 (EDT)

==Gobots Sister Wiki Progress==
Has anyone ever made any progress on the Gobots sister wiki? I have no experience in creating wikis, but would love to see this get made. -[[User:Halfshell25|Halfshell25]] ([[User talk:Halfshell25|talk]]) 19:21, 22 June 2016 (EDT)

== "Foreign Names" ==
The original Mandarin names of the Chinese MMO characters are not their "foreign names" and it is factually inaccurate to label them as such. The AVP replacement names are actually the "foreign" ones. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 08:45, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:Wouldn't the same objection apply to [[Ricochet (Headmasters)]] and the entirety of the Unicron Trilogy's characters? Perhaps a change to the title of the section would be appropriate, but I just read the heading as "names in a language other than English". --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 09:16, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::UT characters are in a much different position, since they were developed with both the English-speaking audience and the Japanese audience in mind, they weren't created for Japan and then imported elsewhere. I would also note that "Foreign names" isn't used to mean "names in a language other than English" on the Beastformers' articles, which list their English names under that header. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 09:56, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::What kind of a change would you suggest? Is it a matter of semantics, like we could change the headers to "International names"? Personally, I never thought the "Foreign names" header intimated something suggesting that the names were "secondary", just that we use English language names where appropriate and list the international/foreign ones at the bottom where appropriate. I don't think country of origin ever really factored into it. And we use the Foreign names section even when characters have the same names across languages, but render them in that language's alphabet for ease of reference (admittedly, we've been rather sloppy about that, particularly the similar Foreign localization sections of episodes where sometimes we list a language's info and sometimes we don't). While we could definitely stand to be more complete/precise across the board, I think altering the section titles based on country of origin would only confuse things for casual browsers. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 10:28, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::Honestly the main thing I wanna suggest is un-reverting the changes to the MMO characters back to "Original Mandarin Name" in place of "Foreign name" as that just more accurate, IMO. I also think that if the intent of the wiki is that "Foreign names" be read as "non-English names" then maybe "English" shouldn't actually appear under that header, as it does for Beastformers and Omni Producion dubs. And if "Foreign names" is actually supposed to mean "Names given to character in foreign markets" then should the name given in their ''original'' market actually be under there? Should a character's original name ever be labelled "foreign"? My gut instinct is to say "no" to that. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 11:16, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::They are foreign to our main readership, which is primarily Americans. That's what it means, regardless of whether the character is a foreign creation. We've had examples like [[Ricochet (Headmasters)|Ricochet/Stepper]], [[Snowblind|Snowblind/Beacon]], and [[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus Prime/Fire Convoy]] for years. Why is this any different? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 12:04, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::I don't know! Maybe it isn't! Maybe all characters should always have their original name listed as such instead of just being under the "Foreign names" header! Maybe they shouldn't! Maybe! --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:16, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::Foreign is always understood as being in relation to the speaker. As this wiki is English speaking, all non-English names are foreign, even if they are the original names for those characters. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:11, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::::Again, if "all non-English name are foreign" then maaaaaaaaybe the word "English" shouldn't be appearing beneath the "Foreign names" header on any articles? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:19, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::::That's a more valid point, though it is mainly used for the Omni Productions dub which is pretty foreign to anything close to English...or good.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:23, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::As we currently have it set up for English/Omni names, it looks like this:

*''English:'' '''Billy''' ([[Omni Productions]] dub), '''Blaster''' ([[Omni Productions]] dub Twincast)

While it seems pretty clear by having the Omni Productions note in parenthesis by the names, maybe it would look better like this?

*''English ([[Omni Productions]] dub):'' '''Billy''' (as Blaster), '''Blaster''' (as Twincast)

Is that better or worse or not even worth the effort? Personally, I don't have a dog in this race; I kinda think things are okay as-is. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 12:35, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:I was walking about the presence of "English" beneath a "Foreign names" header at all if the intended meaning of "Foreign names" is "non-English." So this isn't really addressing that? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:45, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::There isn't really any other good place for these names to go. Unless you want to elevate them to the level of legitimate English variants (like Hot Rod vs Rodimus Prime or Bluestreak vs Silverstreak). I would find it a lot more disturbing to see "Also known as Billy" in Blaster's intro. Oh, and I agree with Speng's new version of the listing. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:57, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::Okay, but then, what else could we call it? How else could we catalog that info? Should we put the Omni names at the top of the article alongside the "Sometimes he is known as..." notation at the bottom of the intro? I dunno if anybody would like that. I get what you're saying about having "English" under Foreign names when we default to English as a standard, but I'm not sure of a better way to catalog their Omni names aside from how we have it (English with Omni in parenthesis) (EDIT: Ah, Khajida beat me to the punch by 2 minutes). --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 12:59, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::I mean, I suppose just listing "Omni Productions Dub" without the word English next to it would read better? Or listing it's country of origin instead of language, rendering the meaning on "Foreign" as "non-American" rather than "non-English?" --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 13:05, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::The Omni dubs are a very strange situation, though, and probably not something we need to build a whole policy around. Surely if we have a working system in place that reads a little strange in this one case we don't need to revamp everything. We can make some kind of reasonable exception just for Omni and call it a day.--[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 13:39, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::Right. I think we're digressing from Kil's original complaint. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:38, 14 July 2016 (EDT)

== Striking Unit:E from the record ==

As someone who has been adding a bunch of pages for the newly introduced Hasbro properties that are part of IDW's Revolution, I think we're hitting a bit of a snag: Unit:E.
Unit:E was supposed to spin-out of Prime, which would put it in the Aligned continuity, while all the Revolution stuff is based in G1 continuity. As such, including info on both IDW Action Man and Unit:E Action Man on the same page doesn't make sense (especially when that page was built solely with IDW in mind.) However, this is a Transformers Wiki, and I don't think we need Action Man (IDW) and Action Man (Unit:E)
This kind of thing WILL spiral out of control, and will only get worse with things like G.I. Joe characters (who are all G1 based) and Micronauts (because Acroyear is so different between the two incarnations.)
As such, I propose that we set a precedent to excise ANY Unit:E-based material, with the exception of how it directly relates to the Transformers. Meaning the page on the actual group mentioned in Prime and the comic itself would stay, but unless Transformers were involved, the events aren't referenced. [[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 19:57 15 July 2016 (EST)
:Or we could just leave them on the same pages like we already are now. Don't overcomplicate things. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 20:27, 15 July 2016 (EDT)
::The way we handle non-Transformers original characters is to keep all appearances together on the same page. So, if Destro shows up in Animated, and again in G1, we don't make two articles. No need for an Action Man (Aligned) and an Action Man (G1) under this scheme. Having them on the same page is a simple and elegant solution. --[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 20:39, 15 July 2016 (EDT)
:::My issue with Unit:E is that none of the characters actually interact, and the multiversal nature of the story means that the Action Man featured there may not even have Transformers in his own universe, meaning his adventures would fall into the Megaverse, and thus outside this wiki's domain. The Unit:E information is therefore superfluous. Unit:E is also not a Transformers-branded piece of media. Notice we don't record the G.I. Joe events of Infestation. --[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 20:53 15 July 2015 (EST)
::::Because those issues do not have Transformers in them. Unit:E does, and I'm seriously having a hard time seeing the harm in detailing an one-shot issue that didn't amount to anything and that nobody else will cover. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 22:57, 15 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::The Unit:E stuff is G1 already though. Arcee, Jazz, Optimus Prime and Bumblebee are all seen as distinctly G1 incarnations of those characters. There isn't even a need to consider the fact that one spin-off is G1 and another is Aligned since that's not the case. --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron|talk]]) 00:40, 16 July 2016 (EDT)

== Aligned characters ==

[http://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/101932-tfwikinet-thread-30/page-247 As brought up here on the Allspark], is there any momentum to split the RiD2015 incarnations of characters such as [[Grimlock (WFC)]], [[Sideswipe (WFC)]], and [[Kickback (FOC)]]? A highly broken concept as it is, the Aligned continuity family does roughly fit together as one timeline. As the three aforementioned RiD characters quite obviously do not share the looks and personalities of the WfC/FoC characters, I, for one, do not see how to reconcile them as the WfC/FoC characters at a new stage of their lives. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 01:57, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
:Yeah, I've come around to the idea that they just don't have that much in common between names and altmodes (or, er, robot modes). I vote to split. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 04:52, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
::For the reasons I've laid out on the AllSpark and on Sideswipe (WFC)'s talk page, I also think they should be split. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 07:24, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
:::I also vote split. And just because I think this is a really useful way to conceptualize things, I want to repeat my formulation from the AllSpark thread:
::::''Let me present this little thought experiment. Let's say that the RID 15 guy was named "Trapjaw", an early name for Grimlock. Maybe for copyright reasons, maybe for creative reasons, we don't know specifically. Would we still be inclined to keep the pages merged? This is an issue that has been a part of the Transformers brand since 1984 (see: Jetfire and Skyfire, who do indeed share a page). Shockblasts comfortably share pages with Shockwaves, Silverstreaks with Bluestreaks, Jazzs with Meisters. Likewise, characters since G1 have shared names and yet not been the same characters: Sky High is the earliest example. In this case, take away the name, and is there any reason to keep them merged? If your answer to this question is no, then you should probably be in favor of a split. ''
:::I think this is an abstract enough test to be useful in a variety of cases where there is name reuse but little else. I've tested it against various counterexamples and (BW vs G1 Megatron, Octane and Tankor, various Unicron Trilogy Mini-Con nameslaps, toon vs comic Blaster) and it always seems to produce the 'correct' answer. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 09:52, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
::::This test is a fantastic measure and one I wholly advocate, but I'll note that this metric places ROTF and AOE Lockdown's merger on relatively shaky footing. Whether that's a good or bad thing is uncertain, but I'd say it's worth it to make sure these RID articles are split. [[User:Sky Shadow|Sky Shadow]] ([[User talk:Sky Shadow|talk]]) 08:29, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
[http://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/101932-tfwikinet-thread-30/?p=3302429 Spectre makes a good point here] about the distinctiveness of Grimlock and Sideswipe. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 21:26, 4 August 2016 (EDT)

So...absent any complaints or counter-arguments in the next 24 hours, I say we go ahead and begin splitting these three characters. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 10:38, 5 August 2016 (EDT)
:As much as my vote matters, I agree with splitting them. [[User:Stealthyboy|Stealthyboy]] ([[User talk:Stealthyboy|talk]]) 13:04, 5 August 2016 (EDT)

So far what I'm getting from the Allspark thread is that it's highly subjective whether anyone thinks FOC Grimlock and RID Grimlock should share a page because they're both based on G1 Grimlock, or whether the differences between the two characters are enough that they should get separate pages. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 19:37, 5 August 2016 (EDT)
: Really? I got the sense that there was one guy that really thought they should be together, several people that really thought they should be separate, and a few people who seemed on the fence. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 23:19, 5 August 2016 (EDT)
:: '''Keep''' them merged. Any argument for splitting them is either arbitrary and could be applied to numerous other characters ([[Brawl (Movie)]], [[Vortex (Movie)]], [[Sideswipe (Movie)]], [[Swerve (Movie)]], [[Hound (Movie)]] and [[Lockdown (ROTF)]], to name a few), or based on [[authorial intent]].--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 09:02, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
::: None of those guys have the same problem of irreconcilable fiction and lots of it, and none of them right now have new material coming up on a regular basis. (The only big issue there is Brawl because Titan went "oh uh it's twins" and in practice that's been easy to skim over) --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 14:52, 6 August 2016 (GMT)
::::Yeah, if we'd got any significant fiction for Movie 1 Hound or ROTF Lockdown, I'd argue that they should be split. Hell, I'm still not convinced that the Lockdowns should share a page, but I'm flexible on that. Most of the ones you've brought up, I would think should share a page only because they ''both'' are based on the same vague concept ''and'' don't have large amounts of fiction in contradictory incarnations. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 11:49, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
:::::I would be up for splitting Brawl, Vortex, Sideswipe, etc though I think it would be unnecessary give how little material their non-screen versions received. But we already have [[Jetfire (Movie)]] and [[Jetfire (ROTF)]] split despite the former having no fiction whatsoever. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 12:49, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
::::::I think, fundamentally, what it comes down to me is: ''will splitting help casual fans to understand better/stop them being confused?'' In the case of RID Grimlock, Sideswipe, and probably Kickback, I think that yes, it would. With Movie Hound and Sideswipe and Vortex, there's very little understanding that would be improved by doing so, and would likely just confuse fans searching for "movie Hound", etc. In the case of the Lockdowns, they're arguably the same character by virtue of Q-Transformers, though that's obviously kinda shaky. (And splitting Brawl would be the most unnecessary pedantry in the whole world, damn.) --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 15:14, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

:: I'd vote to keep them merged, with the stipulation that we add a note of some kind explaining the discrepancy. [[User:Grum|Grum]] ([[User talk:Grum|talk]]) 09:02, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

::Split. They're wildly different characters with no visual similarity and aren't based on the same toy (WFC Grimlock not even originally from a toy!) and it means anyone browsing to look up RID Grimlock, the one they most likely will be, atm has to get through a lot of different Grimlock. --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 14:46, 6 August 2016 (GMT)

A lot of what I'm hearing from the "Keep them merged" crowd is that they don't think some of the reasons for splitting are good reasons. Let me flip it around for a minute -- can anyone think of a ''benefit'' to keeping these characters merged? Besides a slippery-slope argument that it may, someday in the future, be used to justify other splits? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 10:03, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

Split. They're very different characters. And there's no conflict between Hasbro statements and author intent here; the most relevant Hasbro statement is the one that would indicate that FoC and RiD do take place in the same timeline, in which case there can be no "different interpretation of the same characters" between them; characters who cannot be the actual same individual at different times in the same timeline therefore must be different ones with the same name. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 15:02, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

Can I vote that there should be no blanket policy here, to just evaluate on a case-by-case basis? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 16:33, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
: Absolutely, and seconded. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 16:45, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

So I count '''Split: 10''' (Xaaron, SHIELD Agent 47, Charles RB, Jim S, Riptide, Sky Shadow, Stealthyboy, NovaSaber, abates, Sabrblade), '''Keep: 2''' (Nevermore, Grum), with no guiding hand from Admin/Owners. Can we go ahead with splitting these three characters, with the understanding that no larger administrative policy is being established, and future cases should still be evaluated on an individual basis? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 10:42, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
:I mentioned it on the Allspark, but I don't have any particularly strong preference so long it's applied consistently for all the applicable Aligned characters, and not just Grimlock. I do kind of question the sense in still treating Aligned like it's still a single timeline under Squint Test rules, since it seems reasonably certain, between RID Grimlock's existence and the departure of Hasbro folks like Archer, that that concept has been thrown out the window. But I also feel like splitting these characters has benefits in terms of accessibility for the casual user, and I guess that's why I'm not going to vote against – I think I probably would if it felt entirely like meaningless "furniture rearrangement" (as Sipher puts it). I think it's worth putting out one final call for people to 'vote' on the Allspark thread before going ahead with the split. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 11:19, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
::Also, as a postscript: if the splits do go ahead, links will need updating pretty hasty-like, or else there'll be a hell of a lot of potential for confusion. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 11:26, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
:::Relinked episodes 1-12 and the main RID series page so far. Moving on to the non-show relinks now. --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 02:00, 8 August 2016 (GMT)
::::Every image and linked-to non-TV-story on Grim's page has been relinked, plus the RID toyline page. Just the rest of the eps and other character's pages to go--[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 02:30, 8 August 2016 (GMT)
:::::Eps and main Autobots relinked--[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 02:50, 8 August 2016 (GMT)
::::::I think I've got all of the remaining articles, so there's just a pile of images with links to the wrong Grimlock in their descriptions. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 07:11, 8 August 2016 (EDT)
:Throwing my vote in while I still can. I said it on The Allspark an will say it here that I'm in favor of splitting the Grimlock, Sideswipe, and Kickback articles. Although... [[Blurr (Prime)]] might be a fourth contender for splitting as well, but I'm not as eager to see that one split as the other three, so I won't fight for that one as much if enough people object to splitting the Blurr page. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 14:27, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
::Hrm. Yeah, I'd say split the Blurrs, too. They've really only got "car what goes fast" in common, and really, what ''else'' is a bot called Blurr going to turn into? With that one in particular, they're so different that there's no way to reconcile them for an opening paragraph other than the faux-narrative of "first he was this, then he was this". --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:38, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
:I'm actually in favour of split. Not sure I'm particularly worried about Kickback, but Grimlock and Sideswipe definitely. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 18:34, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
Starting on Sideswipe now. Though, come to think of it, is it necessary to title ''Robots in Disguise'' Sideswipe at "Sideswipe (RID 2015)" since the 2001 guy has a space in his name? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 11:15, 8 August 2016 (EDT)
::No, strictly speaking it wouldn't need the 2015, though it's probably a case where an argument could be made for making an exception? [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 12:36, 8 August 2016 (EDT)

== Generations toyline page ==

A thought: do the ''Combiner Wars'' and ''Titans Return'' sublines merit their own pages? The [[Transformers: Generations|''Generations'' page]] has exceeded the length of even the [[The Transformers (toyline)|U.S. G1 toyline page]], and barring some unforeseen financial disaster at Hasbro, we know that the Prime Wars Trilogy will get another entry after ''Titans Return''. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 16:28, 14 August 2016 (EDT)
:I agree. Given how the "''Combiner Wars''" and "''Titans Return''" names overshadow the "''Generations''" name on the packaging, I think we should give them their own page. The fact that each also has a [[Combiner Wars (franchise)|franchise]] [[Titans Return (franchise)|page]] I think warrants this expansion. --[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 18:20, 14 August 2016 (EDT)
:I'm on board with that.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 06:27, 15 August 2016 (EDT)
::Given that Combiner Wars, Titans Return and the next line are under the "Prime Wars" umbrella, maybe we should make a Prime Wars subpage for Generations, similar to the way certain character pages have a separate Toys page, and put the toys in those three lines on that page.[[User:Stealthyboy|Stealthyboy]] ([[User talk:Stealthyboy|talk]]) 17:10, 18 August 2016 (EDT)
Anyone in opposition to this motion? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 00:09, 21 August 2016 (EDT)
:Splitting is probably the least unwieldy option, or will be eventually, so I don't see why not. [[User:Item42|Item42]] ([[User talk:Item42|talk]]) 00:32, 21 August 2016 (EDT)
I'd been considering this myself for a while. My suggestion, I guess, would be splitting it three ways, by logo/branding - original, FOC/T30, and Prime Wars. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 04:45, 21 August 2016 (EDT)
:I think the original Deluxe line, FoC, and T30 can all stay on the same Generations page since their packaging has "Transformers: Generations" as the main thing. I'd even argue splitting up Combiner Wars and Titans Return into their own pages given that (as far as I know) Prime Wars wasn't mentioned on their toy packaging. --[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 11:55, 21 August 2016 (EDT)
::Of course the argument "size of the logo on the packaging" opens a whole can of worms again regarding ''[[Reveal the Shield]]'', which we currently consider a [[subline imprint]] of [[Transformers (2010 toyline)|''Transformers'' (2010)]]… Long story short, the title "Reveal the Shield" on the packaging has the same size and font and all as the concurrently available original ''[[Transformers: Generations|Generations]]'' Deluxe line's title (seriouly, just judging from the packaging alone, [http://imgur.com/a/Mhhjr how is the right one a toy line and the left one only a subline imprint]?)… on the other hand, all the ''Reveal the Shield'' assortments were continued from the 2010 ''Transformers'' line's general retail assortments ([http://imgur.com/B2YWKYd same assortment numbers]), which were simpy branded ''Transformers'' with additional stickers for the ''[[Hunt for the Decepticons]]'' promotion and Jesus Christ on a bicycle 2010's branding was confusing as hell.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 15:34, 22 August 2016 (EDT)
:::''Combiner Wars'' and ''Titans Return'', though, are subline imprints with noteworthy fiction due to their status as multimedia branding. If and when I get to separating out the toylines into their own articles, I believe I will focus on those two. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 23:40, 25 August 2016 (EDT)

== Masterforce humans and transtectors ==

Um, why are we separating the human Minerva, Ginrai, etc. from the robot Minerva, Ginrai, etc? Especially considering that we just fairly recently combined the organic Nebulan Peacemaker (et al.) and the robotic Peaceman (et al.). --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:39, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
:Well, it's not really a comparable situation to Peacemaker and co. - this is robot and human versions of the same character co-existing together in the same world, not a character being variably robot or human in different universes. With new fiction (and probably more to come) of the humans and robots off doing separate stuff, splitting them out is probably the solution that leads to the least-confusing biography write-ups... [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 12:46, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
::We already did this almost two years ago for [[Shūta Gō]] and [[Goshooter]] when they appeared simultaneously in order to keep track of them better. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 12:49, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
:::What Jalaguy said. Otherwise we get alternating paragraphs of human and robot Minerva fiction which only confuse readers. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 16:16, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
::::Should their toys be split onto subpages as well then? It seems redundant to have exactly the same section on both pages.[[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 17:10, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
:::::They're not that long and they don't have the exact same set of toys. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 17:14, 30 August 2016 (EDT)

==Bios by Universal Stream==
For characters like Jhiaxus who have totally different personalities, I think we should have individual bios placed above their fiction. Though we do note that certain characters have wildly different portrayals, we never really explain their personality, simply listing what happens in their fictional appearances. This could also count for locations as well. For example, Cybertron is a very different planet in several continuities, yet we don't usually have individual descriptions of each version. Currently we (for the most part) only list the history of the planet, not its defining physical characteristics. I'm not talking about a long bio, just a few sentences to clarify the differences with its other versions. Does anyone else agree? --[[User:Halfshell25|Halfshell25]] 12:31, 04 September 2016 (EDT)

== Titan Master toy info accessibility ==

To account for ''Titans Return'' Titan Masters whose names and personalities match the large classic dudes instead of the small classic dudes they tend to physically resemble, I have added links in the 1980s Nebulans' toy sections pointing to the large guy's ''Titans Return'' toys. How does everyone feel about this? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 22:23, 8 September 2016 (EDT)
:Sounds good to me. I was going to put the full entries on their pages, but this probably works better. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 06:57, 9 September 2016 (EDT)
::Personalities? I am intrigued. How do you know what their personalities are? There are no bios or anything. - [[User:Gimmick|Gimmick]] ([[User talk:Gimmick|talk]]) 18:18, 9 September 2016 (EDT)
:::Haven't you seen the packaging backsides? Or the [[Titans Return: The Power of the Titan Masters|available on the Internet catalog]]? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 19:25, 9 September 2016 (EDT)
::::I know about the catalog bios, but the single-packed Titan Masters really don't have bios anywhere on their package. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 20:28, 9 September 2016 (EDT)
:::::Yeah, the single-packed TMs don't have their bios on their packaging, just in the storybook/catalogue and on their Hasbro.com listings. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 08:02, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
::::::I haven't read the Comic-Con storybook, but thanks for the heads up on the Hasbro.com bios. The Wiki could probably say more about that. Although I think I would rather not have known that some Titan Masters have their big-guy personality just because in the real life universe, their toy was packaged individually. Personal canon: Titan Master Fangry's superpower is that he comes with Google Maps preinstalled. - [[User:Gimmick|Gimmick]] ([[User talk:Gimmick|talk]]) 10:49, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
:Should the same system be used for [[Emissary (Generations)|Emissary]] on [[Spike_Witwicky_(G1)|Spike]] and [[Galen Kord|Galen's]] pages? At the moment the full entry for Emissary is on Spike's page with nothing on Galen's, even though the G1 toy is on both. [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 07:06, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
::Emissary is designed to look like Spike and Galen's armor, though. That's more in common than there is between the single Titan Masters and their corresponding Nebulans, who basically have "turns into the same head" as the only reason to associate them. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 14:59, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I suppose, but there are a lot of toys that look very similar to a previous character but aren't on their page. [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 11:34, 12 September 2016 (EDT)

== Add links to uploaded videos of episodes in the articles for episodes? ==

I have been watching the G1 on dailymotion and all thanks to this wiki, I just check the list of episodes and look for it in a couple of chosen favorite channels.
I thought that maybe it'd be cool if we could simply add links to the episodes in the articles themselves?

As a bonus, we could also form a team and:
* Set up our own channel.
* Collect the best quality versions of the episodes from various sources.
* Link to those videos in the articles. --[[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 03:20, 14 September 2016 (EDT)
:Nope. The wiki is ''not'' going to endorse piracy. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 03:28, 14 September 2016 (EDT)
::That would give Hasbro a nice, easy reason to shut the wiki down, which is not what we're after. When it's all out for purchase, it's not fair to them to put it up illegally. [[User:AkibaSilver|AkibaSilver]] ([[User talk:AkibaSilver|talk]]) 08:31, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:Christ no. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 15:25, 15 September 2016 (EDT)

== Animation/continuity errors ==

Hey, this is just a little thing - I'm not proposing anything, just mentioning this with a view to moving forward, but I really dislike how on episode pages we put errors first. I get why, it's a carryover from our G1 episode pages being some of the first things we ever did, and errors being perhaps the most famous, most catalogue-able thing about that series. But it's an out-of-place, and frankly I think demeaning, thing to have as the first entry for an average modern cartoon episode when there's plenty of other, more "relevant" information to provide ahead of mistakes. We don't do it for comics, and I don't like it on episodes either. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 14:06, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'd say go ahead and make a proposal to change it. You have my vote behind you. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 14:49, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'm beyond okay with this and absolutely in favor of making this a broad-scale change to existing pages. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 15:13, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:Yup, also very much behind this. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 15:21, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:If we're re-ordering anyway, does anyone else think it would be more informative to "continuity errors" always follow "continuity notes" for episodes that have both, even if it means "continuity errors" is no longer consecutive with "animation and technical errors"? [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 15:51, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
::I wouldn't be adverse to making the errors a subset of notes, really. I mean, a continuity error IS technically a note about continuity. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 16:05, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I'm not sure, with modern shows, that we even ''need'' separate sections for "continuity errors" and "animation errors." Again, with G1 - yes, we did, because there were so many. But such things are so rare now that a simple "Errors" section seems like all we need to everything effectively.
::::Ehn, I feel like keeping all the continuity bits together, be they complimentary or clashing, makes more sense than lumping the continuity-clashes with "someone forgot to texture that panel in that one shot". --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 16:15, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
::I agree. Although, personally, I don't see a reason to bundle it up under one "Errors" heading. As a reader, I would like them to be under relevant headings. --[[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 14:29, 18 September 2016 (EDT)

== Japanese UT character disambig tags ==

Would anyone object to me simplifying the tags "(Micron Densetsu)", "(Super Link)", and "(Galaxy Force)" for Japanese-original Unicron Trilogy characters with such tags down to just "(MD)", "(SL)", and "(GF)"? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 00:48, 20 September 2016 (EDT)
:Go for it! --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 01:09, 20 September 2016 (EDT)

== RID/G1 character merges ==

What with the steadily increasing numbers of RID 2001 characters imported into Generation 1 based continuities with basically no differences, I feel like we should probably just merge their G1 counterparts into the RID pages and be done with it, especially with the blurred lines of Car Robots involved; we're already doing so for Wind Sheer and Skyfire. This would (probably) mean merging the following pages:
* Bruticus (CR) into [[Bruticus (RID)]]
* [[Cryotek (Universe)]] into [[Cryotek (RID)]]
* Dark Scream (G1) into [[Dark Scream]]
* Emissary (BW) into [[Emissary (RID)]]
* Gigatron (G1) into [[Megatron (RID)]]
* [[Jhiaxus (RID)]] into [[Jhiaxus (G2)]]
* Side Burn (G1) into [[Side Burn (RID)]] (arguable)
* Sky-Byte (G2) into [[Sky-Byte (RID)]]
* Slapper (Universe) into [[Slapper (RID)]]
* And probably [[Predacon (RID)]] into [[Predacon (BW)]] as well; the latter kind of needs a more continuity-neutral reformat anyway.
I just feel like all these fairly arbitrary splits for guys who are intended to be ''pretty much'' the same characters, coupled with the explanatory blocks of text about Japanese G1 continuity, is making this more complicated than it needs to be. Thoughs? --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 11:54, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:Yup. About time too. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 12:04, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'm down. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 12:11, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:[[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive60#Probably an unpopular thought, but...|Always been for it.]] I'm not sure if I'm on board with Hasbro-original characters like Jhiaxus and Cryotek, but I'll accept them if it means the CR guys get merged. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 12:21, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:Oppose. RID is not only a separate continuity, but also a separate multiversal stream. To start merging these characters just because they're broadly similar doesn't really make sense. After all, ''Animated'' [[Ransack (Animated)|Ransack]] and [[Crumplezone (Animated)|Crumplezone]] are practically identical in personality and design to their ''Cybertron'' counterparts, but we acknowledge them as separate distinct entities. And characters imported into G1 like Sky-Byte have shown up in three different continuities. Would this also mean ''Universe'' [[Ratchet (Universe)|Ratchet]] gets folded in with G1 [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]]? Plus, this could lead to confusion by someone wondering "Why isn't all the info about Fire Truck Optimus with Old Optimus?" I think by this point we're long past merging RID and G1 in any form other than the brief "in Japan, this cartoon is G1 because dumb reasons." --[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 12:47, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::The difference between G1 and RID is inherently different to the difference between G1 and Animated because of Car Robots. People wouldn't wonder why RID Optimus wasn't with G1 Optimus because they have distinct designs and personalities, and have existed in the same continuity. We already have different incarnations of the same character from separate continuity families sharing pages, so it's not like this is going to start a slippery slope. (And no, Universe and G1 Ratchet would not be merged, for the same reason that RID and G1 Prowl would not be merged.) --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 13:02, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:::The only slippery slope involved here is the one we're already sliding down that involves more and more RID characters appearing in G1 stories that makes this a more plausible action to take. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:06, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:::Except this wiki has always used the American-based fiction as it's primary source, where RID is separate from everything. And even Car Robots being G1 is the result of a freaking RETCON. I'd even argue that any characters who do have multiple continuities on their page be split (though the only examples that come to mind are former Multiversal Singularities like Unicron or Vector Prime, which were only created that way ''because'' they were multiversal singularities.)

:::Also, If I end up getting out voted on this, I'd at least like to argue against merging Side Burn, Jhiaxus, and GIgatron/Megatron. Because G1 Side Burn does differ from RID in a few notable ways (most notably NOT being brother to a guy named Prowl), Jhiaxus is more of a repurposing, and not only is there already a Megatron in the IDW comics, there's a Gigatron in the Animated universe that is also based on RID Megs. And if we're merging BW Bruticus into RID Bruticus, we'd also have to merge TF 2010 Backstop, Underbite, and Wreckloose in with their Cybertron counterparts. All in all, this seems like it's becoming more of a headache than just keeping them separate.--[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 14:41, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::::This is kind of a weird string of complaints that don't really logically bear on anything. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:17, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'd be fine with this. Certainly seems preferable to weird crap like Sky-Byte having Japanese G1 fiction on one article and Hasbro G1 fiction on another. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]])
:I agree with the general idea and most of the examples, but I'd say Jhiaxus isn't really the same situation as the rest. I'm not sure about the factions either. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 14:45, 21 September 2016 (EDT)

Some other stuff that could stand to be merged:
*Hound (RID) into [[Hound (G1)]]
*Sky Lynx (RID) into [[Sky Lynx (G1)]]
*Teletraan I (RID) into Teletraan I (G1)
Mmmmmmaybe [[Alpha Trion (RID)]]? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 13:38, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:Three "CHRIST YES"es, and a "hmnnn." - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:41, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:For what it's worth, [[Ultra Trion]]'s "Trion" bits do sure look like they came off of G1 A3... --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:15, 21 September 2016 (EDT)

How do we feel about the likes of [[Ransack (IDW)|Ransack]]? Could he stand to be merged into his ''Cybertron'' page? --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee|talk]]) 15:22, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:Eh, hang on I think I'm caught up now. Without ''Car Robots'' there's no link to G1 so he's a separate character unlike the RID guys. Is that right? --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee|talk]]) 15:27, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::Yeah, that's a separate discussion (and a merge I'd disagree with, but let's focus on the RID guys for now). [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:35, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I agree that they should be merged except Jhiaxus.--[[User:Primestar3|Primestar3]] ([[User talk:Primestar3|talk]]) 15:38, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:I think I'd be against merging anyone from different continuity families other than between G1/BW and RiD. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 15:55, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::That seems to be a reasonable rule of thumb. --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee|talk]]) 16:09, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::To be honest, I'd be kind of inclined to merge the BWU Micromaster/Mini-Con repurposings as well, just because both iterations of the characters are so insignificant, and AVP seemed to make a point of having a lot of Mini-Cons exist across continuity families... but that's a separate argument and one with no real solid logic behind it. In this particular instance, yes, leave it as G1 and RID. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 16:16, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
I'm not sure exactly what position to take, but I would say that Hasbro-original characters are somewhat different from the guys who share a CR/RiD cartoon narrative. Thus, I think RiD Alpha Trion should be looked at the same way as RiD Optimus Prime and RiD Ultra Magnus. And to add to the list of pages up for consideration:
*Plasma into [[Cerebros (RID)]]
Also, I note that the one-off text mention of IDW G1 Side Burn. Anyone know if that iteration is tied to RiD 2001 Side Burn or is an independent conception? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 16:32, 21 September 2016 (EDT)

So should we merge Cryotek and Jhiaxus? I opposed it back when because there was no real reason to while we had the others split, but now I think that it's a close enough situation that they should be merged, even if they don't have Car Robots equivalents; it's still "RID guy is used in a G1 universe". (Plus, Bruticus only has a "Car Robots" counterpart because of AVP fiction, so merging him solely on that basis while leaving the other Hasbro-originals separate feels overly nitpicky.) --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 09:02, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
:I feel like Jhiaxus is more "RID Optimus Prime and G1 Optimus Prime"—he would have had his article all along if it wasn't for 3H saying it was the original Jhiaxus. I admit I don't have an argument for Cryotek. Just preference. If you want to merge them, *shrug* [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 09:16, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
::I think they should remain separate. RiD Cryotek and Jhiaxus had independent Viron existences in the first place due to their toys, and I think their personalities are distinct. That their toys were repurposed is like ''Prime'' Ratchet's design getting repurposed in G1 for that X-Files Hearts of Steel story. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 10:33, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I think, at least in the case of Jhiaxus, "distinct personality" doesn't matter that much, because he's never been consistent. Really, I just think it's neater to have them together if the other RID characters are, especially since they both predate recent official repurposing trends; 3H's thinking was probably "Cryotek is Cryotek"/"Jhiaxus is Jhiaxus". --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 10:39, 22 September 2016 (EDT)

Wait, better argument: we're already keeping the Hasbro-original, toyline-only characters Skyfire and Wind Sheer merged across continuity families, and it'd be patently silly to split them out. I don't want to argue for consistency above all things, but in this matter, I think it'd be a good idea. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 12:42, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
:Okay, I do not necessarily agree, but I can see a case to be made that similarly to Wind Sheer and Skyfire, Cryotek is a Hasbro RiD-original guy who was extended into G1. But that does not apply to Jhiaxus. G2 Jhiaxus existed by himself for a decade before the independent RiD toy came along. RiD Jhiaxus by our policies and by logic should remain an independent page. Otherwise, we should merge ''Prime'' Ratchet into G1 Ratchet's page. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 04:20, 23 September 2016 (EDT)
::Really? Because his page only got built when I mentioned his name in Ask Vector Prime as a continuity patch as far as I know. That hardly seems like a cut-and-dried case. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 07:41, 23 September 2016 (EDT)
:::Yeah, I think that the fact that for a decade and a half the ''only'' use of RID Jhiaxus was as the G2 character makes it more fair to fudge categorization for the sake of consistency. Plus, as I said, G2 Jhiaxus is already both "tyrannical leader" and "sycophantic scientist"; is "dedicated, loyal lieutenant" that much of a step away? (Hell, you could even look at it as a halfway point between the two...)

:I disagree. One of the things I like about this wiki, is the fact that every continuity get's its own share of articles. And RID and G1 are not even part of the same continuity family. I don't see why it's even being considered and agreed to. Also, they weren't just different families, but RID is a japanese cartoon.
:You say that there are virtually no differences, so I assume that they look identical to their G1 counterparts, but what about the story? Take hound for example. I haven't watched the cartoon so I don't know, but if he didn't get a redesign, does that mean that he wasn't relevant to the story either? If that is the case, then I guess it won't kill to merge.
:And why would you want to merge the Predacon(BW) with Predacon(RID)? The BW Predacons came after the decepticons, and are rather like their descendants or successors, while in RID, the decepticons are like a really small sub-group of the Predacons. That alone, I believe shows that it makes no sense to merge the two.
--[[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 09:44, 24 September 2016 (EDT)

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2016-09-24T13:46:40Z

Furhun: /* RID/G1 character merges */

__NEWSECTIONLINK__

This is the place for discussion of topics that affect the entire wiki. Some topics that would ordinarily be here have merited their own pages:

{{chapters|title=Specific Discussion Subjects|align=left|content=
<div class="list-header">'''Moving From Wikia:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving|Arriving]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving|Leaving]]
* [[Transformers Wiki:Community Portal/Complaints|Complaints]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''New Ad Policy:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki:Ads|Ads]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Bookworm Database-Crash:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central|Damage Control Central]]
* [[Project:Bookworm Crash]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving2|Leaving Take 2]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Server Move:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving2|Arriving Take 2]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Relicensing:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Relicensing|Relicensing]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Dealing With Vandalism:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Vandalism|Vandalism]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''GoBots Sister Wiki:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/GoBots|Discussion on the place of GoBots in this wiki]]
<br/> <div class="list-header">'''Wiki Technical Information:'''</div>
* [[Transformers_Wiki:Tech|A Not So Brief Summary of the Horrible Things That McFly and Co. Have Done To Keep This Wiki From Melting Down]]
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{{:{{FULLPAGENAMEE}}/Archive}}


== IDW Revolution ==

So the preview for ''Rom'' #1 shows the EDC in it and we can probably expect more of this sort of thing. This could be a problem for recording stuff, since the EDC is a Transformers concept but if it becomes a ''Rom'' one too, we technically need to put a lot of Rom storylinks here.

So should we do a rule that it has to be ''specifically'' a Transformer appearing to get covered, and otherwise we'll put it in Notes ("the EDC also shoot Rom!!")? --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 17:17, 7 June 2016 (GMT)

:I think the closest thing we have to an existing standard is [[Unfoldings!|G.I. Joe #138]], a comic that is not an identified crossover with Transformers and contains the most minor of guest-appearances inside. The full issue is summarized on this site, and details of that issue appear in the fiction section of every character, even ones like [[Wild Bill]] who had no contact with Transformers whatsoever for the story.

:Beyond that "standard", though, you're right that we will need to establish a rule for when Hasbro/IDW Universe stories are covered. Only when Transformers appear in the issue? Transformers characters? Transformers concepts? If Blackrock appears in MASK #3, do we cover that issue based on that alone? What if there's also a one-panel flashback of Blackrock with Galvatron? Do we cover it then? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 12:50, 7 June 2016 (EDT)

::My two cents. If it's not a piece of Transformers fiction, it generally only gets mentioned in the notes, even if a nominally-TF character appears. Major characters (you can decide who fits) can tip the scales, and situations like GI Joe #138 get included because that issue is essential to understanding issue #139 (where the crossover is first explicitly mentioned, but where the action is already well in play as the issue opens, and #138 is necessary to understand how we got there. Note also that a major TF character appears in #138, if only briefly). These general guidelines should be able to suffice for the most part. --[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] ([[User talk:G.B. Blackrock|talk]]) 13:32, 7 June 2016 (EDT)

:::Disagree on #138. It's completely unnecessary for understanding #139 ("Megatron is attacking the castle!" is pretty clearly conveyed by the splash page), and it actually ''confuses'' the situation, since the shadowy conversation in #138 is ignored or outright contradicted later in the story.

:::But regardless, that brings us back around to "What's a major character?" Only Transformers? Pre-IDW humans like Fairborne, Spike, and Blackrock as well? Jimmy Pink and Jones? What if Battle Force 2000 encounters the Enigma of Combination? What if MASK travels to Cybertron, but no identifiable Transformers appear? I realize a lot of these questions can't be answered until it happens, but some idea where everyone sits on the matter should be established ahead of time, if we can. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 13:46, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::If it's not an explicit and branded crossover we should have minimal coverage. If an actual Transformer shows up in another book, we cover his appearance but that's it. 138 is probably covered in too much detail already. Transformers concepts and settings and human companions appearing in other books are notes. --[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 14:15, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::I think if a Transformer or other Clearly A Transformers-Franchise Character like Blackrock, Marissa, Spike, etc. shows up in another title's issue, than that issue should get fully covered as a crossover regardless of "branding." A TF-originated ''concept'', however, like the EDC, putting in an appearance probably doesn't need to be more than a note somewhere. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 14:49, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::No. We don't cover every Marvel Comics issue Death's Head's shown up in following his departure from the TF universe. And before you "WELL ACTUALLY" me, he's only not a Fully Legal Transformers Character on the most petty of technicalities. He was made to be a Transformers character and given a legal out to be used elsewhere without paying Hasbro.<br>
::::::AT MOST, non-Transformers books should be lumped together in a fiction section on the franchise in question's page. Personally I have grave doubts as to just how much character bleed there actually will be, as well as how long any of these titles are even going to ''last''. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 15:03, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::WELL ACTUALLY another difference there is that, like you said, Death's Head ''departed'' the TF universe. He was taken away from the TF franchise and given to Marvel-at-large. This has not happened with say, Marissa Fairborn, who is still a Transformers character. Her "home title" is still The Transformers. A hypothetical Marissa Fairborn guest appearance in an issue of M.A.S.K. is, IMO, just as much of a TF crossover as an appearance of, say, Cosmos or Soundwave would be. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 15:22, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::::Which should still be relegated to a singular fiction section on the not-Transformers franchise page. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 15:41, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::But the fact that that legal out was ''created'' would, I think, make him a Marvel-by-way-of-Transformers character. He may have been ''created'' for Transformers, but he was also created to be ''used'' outside Transformers. Plus, uh, what Kil said.
:::::::My proposal: only issues with Transformers in get their own pages; any other appearances of TF characters and concepts go on a single page for the whole franchise/comic. Doesn't leave anything out, but also doesn't overstep the wiki's bounds. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 15:44, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::::Death's Head's legal reality is exactly why he's in those non-Transformers stories in the first place; I don't think he's a good example. I think sticking to things that cannot exist out of a ''Transformers'' context (i.e. the Enigma of Combination, Optimus Prime, etc.) is a okay baseline. The EDC can always serve as a generic "defense against aggressive aliens" organization independent of Transformers, but things like the Matrix can't. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:56, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::Transformers get full writeups and bestow full writeup coverage on the issues in which they appear. TF-originating non-TF characters and concepts (Spike, EDC, the Enigma, cosmic rust) get very brief mentions within the main bodies of their articles, in proper chronological order in the IDW Fiction sections, with storylinks properly annotated; these storylinks would be redirected to the main non-TF-franchise comic page. IE "storylink|ROM #6" just goes to the ROM comic. ROM (character) does not have any of his own adventures chronicled ever except when he's doing it right next to a Transformer, regardless of title. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 19:11, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::"Transformers get full writeups and bestow full writeup coverage on the issues in which they appear." No. A one-panel cameo does not mean we write up the entire issue as its own article. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 19:34, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::We've got full pages for the non-Transformers Infestation comics and Unit:E, just putting that out there. It's not like covering issues in which Transformers appear is going to lead to people insisting we cover the entirety of okay actually I may be giving the average wiki user too much credit --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 19:46, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::::I'd much rather just lose the full page coverage for Unit E and non-TF Infestation than start giving it to all these new comics. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep|talk]]) 19:49, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::BINGO. It's not before anymore. We live in a very different world than when a lot of this wiki's "standards" were crafted. What worked when TFs was a healthy-yet-niche franchise, perhaps not so much now that it's being used as a tentpole for a lot of other things. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 20:27, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::Disagreed, I guess. I feel like if it's a book by a Hasbro licensee using their Transformers license to use Transformers in the story, it doesn't particularly matter what the name on the book is. Sure, if it's, like, a 1-panel flashback or something we wouldn't even mention otherwise, we can leave it out, but if they have a bigger role, it shouldn't need "The Transformers" on the cover to get a writeup. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:23, 8 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::I'm down with "Transformers get full writeups and bestow full writeup coverage on the issues in which they appear", with the caveat of "except when it's a minor cameo" (i.e. not Megatron showing up in Joe #138 as he's the cliffhanger but like how Nick Fury's making a cameo in TF #3 to go "look this guy's paying attention). Anything else goes in Notes unless & until it explicitly impacts on a Transformers comic, i.e. crossover stories. --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]} 04:05, 8 June 2016 GMT
::::::: Hum, so... Not a total coverage, got it. But some Locations have had their own articles just because they were in the Hasbro 'verse. All that Star Wars stuff for example is mostly unrelated. If there is such a thing like an official Hasbro 'verse... shouldn't we start to list planets from other continuities? Or does that also fall under the category of "only if a Transformer / EDC member ever puts his feet /wheels on it"? Other more precise locations may clearly not fit in here, but planets? I feel as if the Planets and stars existing in IDW's Rom are are much more observable from Earth or Cybertron than some other stuff we already have. Anyway, I'm just asking before I begin to do any unnecessary work.[[User:Xunk16|Xunk16]] ([[User talk:Xunk16|talk]]) 02:19, 23 September 2016 (EDT)
::::::::If it appears in an issue that we're covering (i.e. an issue with Transformers in), then it can get an article. If it doesn't, it doesn't. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 04:23, 23 September 2016 (EDT)

==Gobots Sister Wiki Progress==
Has anyone ever made any progress on the Gobots sister wiki? I have no experience in creating wikis, but would love to see this get made. -[[User:Halfshell25|Halfshell25]] ([[User talk:Halfshell25|talk]]) 19:21, 22 June 2016 (EDT)

== "Foreign Names" ==
The original Mandarin names of the Chinese MMO characters are not their "foreign names" and it is factually inaccurate to label them as such. The AVP replacement names are actually the "foreign" ones. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 08:45, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:Wouldn't the same objection apply to [[Ricochet (Headmasters)]] and the entirety of the Unicron Trilogy's characters? Perhaps a change to the title of the section would be appropriate, but I just read the heading as "names in a language other than English". --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 09:16, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::UT characters are in a much different position, since they were developed with both the English-speaking audience and the Japanese audience in mind, they weren't created for Japan and then imported elsewhere. I would also note that "Foreign names" isn't used to mean "names in a language other than English" on the Beastformers' articles, which list their English names under that header. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 09:56, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::What kind of a change would you suggest? Is it a matter of semantics, like we could change the headers to "International names"? Personally, I never thought the "Foreign names" header intimated something suggesting that the names were "secondary", just that we use English language names where appropriate and list the international/foreign ones at the bottom where appropriate. I don't think country of origin ever really factored into it. And we use the Foreign names section even when characters have the same names across languages, but render them in that language's alphabet for ease of reference (admittedly, we've been rather sloppy about that, particularly the similar Foreign localization sections of episodes where sometimes we list a language's info and sometimes we don't). While we could definitely stand to be more complete/precise across the board, I think altering the section titles based on country of origin would only confuse things for casual browsers. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 10:28, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::Honestly the main thing I wanna suggest is un-reverting the changes to the MMO characters back to "Original Mandarin Name" in place of "Foreign name" as that just more accurate, IMO. I also think that if the intent of the wiki is that "Foreign names" be read as "non-English names" then maybe "English" shouldn't actually appear under that header, as it does for Beastformers and Omni Producion dubs. And if "Foreign names" is actually supposed to mean "Names given to character in foreign markets" then should the name given in their ''original'' market actually be under there? Should a character's original name ever be labelled "foreign"? My gut instinct is to say "no" to that. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 11:16, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::They are foreign to our main readership, which is primarily Americans. That's what it means, regardless of whether the character is a foreign creation. We've had examples like [[Ricochet (Headmasters)|Ricochet/Stepper]], [[Snowblind|Snowblind/Beacon]], and [[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus Prime/Fire Convoy]] for years. Why is this any different? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 12:04, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::I don't know! Maybe it isn't! Maybe all characters should always have their original name listed as such instead of just being under the "Foreign names" header! Maybe they shouldn't! Maybe! --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:16, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::Foreign is always understood as being in relation to the speaker. As this wiki is English speaking, all non-English names are foreign, even if they are the original names for those characters. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:11, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::::Again, if "all non-English name are foreign" then maaaaaaaaybe the word "English" shouldn't be appearing beneath the "Foreign names" header on any articles? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:19, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::::That's a more valid point, though it is mainly used for the Omni Productions dub which is pretty foreign to anything close to English...or good.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:23, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::As we currently have it set up for English/Omni names, it looks like this:

*''English:'' '''Billy''' ([[Omni Productions]] dub), '''Blaster''' ([[Omni Productions]] dub Twincast)

While it seems pretty clear by having the Omni Productions note in parenthesis by the names, maybe it would look better like this?

*''English ([[Omni Productions]] dub):'' '''Billy''' (as Blaster), '''Blaster''' (as Twincast)

Is that better or worse or not even worth the effort? Personally, I don't have a dog in this race; I kinda think things are okay as-is. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 12:35, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:I was walking about the presence of "English" beneath a "Foreign names" header at all if the intended meaning of "Foreign names" is "non-English." So this isn't really addressing that? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:45, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::There isn't really any other good place for these names to go. Unless you want to elevate them to the level of legitimate English variants (like Hot Rod vs Rodimus Prime or Bluestreak vs Silverstreak). I would find it a lot more disturbing to see "Also known as Billy" in Blaster's intro. Oh, and I agree with Speng's new version of the listing. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:57, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::Okay, but then, what else could we call it? How else could we catalog that info? Should we put the Omni names at the top of the article alongside the "Sometimes he is known as..." notation at the bottom of the intro? I dunno if anybody would like that. I get what you're saying about having "English" under Foreign names when we default to English as a standard, but I'm not sure of a better way to catalog their Omni names aside from how we have it (English with Omni in parenthesis) (EDIT: Ah, Khajida beat me to the punch by 2 minutes). --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 12:59, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::I mean, I suppose just listing "Omni Productions Dub" without the word English next to it would read better? Or listing it's country of origin instead of language, rendering the meaning on "Foreign" as "non-American" rather than "non-English?" --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 13:05, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::The Omni dubs are a very strange situation, though, and probably not something we need to build a whole policy around. Surely if we have a working system in place that reads a little strange in this one case we don't need to revamp everything. We can make some kind of reasonable exception just for Omni and call it a day.--[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 13:39, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::Right. I think we're digressing from Kil's original complaint. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:38, 14 July 2016 (EDT)

== Striking Unit:E from the record ==

As someone who has been adding a bunch of pages for the newly introduced Hasbro properties that are part of IDW's Revolution, I think we're hitting a bit of a snag: Unit:E.
Unit:E was supposed to spin-out of Prime, which would put it in the Aligned continuity, while all the Revolution stuff is based in G1 continuity. As such, including info on both IDW Action Man and Unit:E Action Man on the same page doesn't make sense (especially when that page was built solely with IDW in mind.) However, this is a Transformers Wiki, and I don't think we need Action Man (IDW) and Action Man (Unit:E)
This kind of thing WILL spiral out of control, and will only get worse with things like G.I. Joe characters (who are all G1 based) and Micronauts (because Acroyear is so different between the two incarnations.)
As such, I propose that we set a precedent to excise ANY Unit:E-based material, with the exception of how it directly relates to the Transformers. Meaning the page on the actual group mentioned in Prime and the comic itself would stay, but unless Transformers were involved, the events aren't referenced. [[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 19:57 15 July 2016 (EST)
:Or we could just leave them on the same pages like we already are now. Don't overcomplicate things. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 20:27, 15 July 2016 (EDT)
::The way we handle non-Transformers original characters is to keep all appearances together on the same page. So, if Destro shows up in Animated, and again in G1, we don't make two articles. No need for an Action Man (Aligned) and an Action Man (G1) under this scheme. Having them on the same page is a simple and elegant solution. --[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 20:39, 15 July 2016 (EDT)
:::My issue with Unit:E is that none of the characters actually interact, and the multiversal nature of the story means that the Action Man featured there may not even have Transformers in his own universe, meaning his adventures would fall into the Megaverse, and thus outside this wiki's domain. The Unit:E information is therefore superfluous. Unit:E is also not a Transformers-branded piece of media. Notice we don't record the G.I. Joe events of Infestation. --[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 20:53 15 July 2015 (EST)
::::Because those issues do not have Transformers in them. Unit:E does, and I'm seriously having a hard time seeing the harm in detailing an one-shot issue that didn't amount to anything and that nobody else will cover. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 22:57, 15 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::The Unit:E stuff is G1 already though. Arcee, Jazz, Optimus Prime and Bumblebee are all seen as distinctly G1 incarnations of those characters. There isn't even a need to consider the fact that one spin-off is G1 and another is Aligned since that's not the case. --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron|talk]]) 00:40, 16 July 2016 (EDT)

== Aligned characters ==

[http://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/101932-tfwikinet-thread-30/page-247 As brought up here on the Allspark], is there any momentum to split the RiD2015 incarnations of characters such as [[Grimlock (WFC)]], [[Sideswipe (WFC)]], and [[Kickback (FOC)]]? A highly broken concept as it is, the Aligned continuity family does roughly fit together as one timeline. As the three aforementioned RiD characters quite obviously do not share the looks and personalities of the WfC/FoC characters, I, for one, do not see how to reconcile them as the WfC/FoC characters at a new stage of their lives. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 01:57, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
:Yeah, I've come around to the idea that they just don't have that much in common between names and altmodes (or, er, robot modes). I vote to split. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 04:52, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
::For the reasons I've laid out on the AllSpark and on Sideswipe (WFC)'s talk page, I also think they should be split. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 07:24, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
:::I also vote split. And just because I think this is a really useful way to conceptualize things, I want to repeat my formulation from the AllSpark thread:
::::''Let me present this little thought experiment. Let's say that the RID 15 guy was named "Trapjaw", an early name for Grimlock. Maybe for copyright reasons, maybe for creative reasons, we don't know specifically. Would we still be inclined to keep the pages merged? This is an issue that has been a part of the Transformers brand since 1984 (see: Jetfire and Skyfire, who do indeed share a page). Shockblasts comfortably share pages with Shockwaves, Silverstreaks with Bluestreaks, Jazzs with Meisters. Likewise, characters since G1 have shared names and yet not been the same characters: Sky High is the earliest example. In this case, take away the name, and is there any reason to keep them merged? If your answer to this question is no, then you should probably be in favor of a split. ''
:::I think this is an abstract enough test to be useful in a variety of cases where there is name reuse but little else. I've tested it against various counterexamples and (BW vs G1 Megatron, Octane and Tankor, various Unicron Trilogy Mini-Con nameslaps, toon vs comic Blaster) and it always seems to produce the 'correct' answer. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 09:52, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
::::This test is a fantastic measure and one I wholly advocate, but I'll note that this metric places ROTF and AOE Lockdown's merger on relatively shaky footing. Whether that's a good or bad thing is uncertain, but I'd say it's worth it to make sure these RID articles are split. [[User:Sky Shadow|Sky Shadow]] ([[User talk:Sky Shadow|talk]]) 08:29, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
[http://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/101932-tfwikinet-thread-30/?p=3302429 Spectre makes a good point here] about the distinctiveness of Grimlock and Sideswipe. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 21:26, 4 August 2016 (EDT)

So...absent any complaints or counter-arguments in the next 24 hours, I say we go ahead and begin splitting these three characters. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 10:38, 5 August 2016 (EDT)
:As much as my vote matters, I agree with splitting them. [[User:Stealthyboy|Stealthyboy]] ([[User talk:Stealthyboy|talk]]) 13:04, 5 August 2016 (EDT)

So far what I'm getting from the Allspark thread is that it's highly subjective whether anyone thinks FOC Grimlock and RID Grimlock should share a page because they're both based on G1 Grimlock, or whether the differences between the two characters are enough that they should get separate pages. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 19:37, 5 August 2016 (EDT)
: Really? I got the sense that there was one guy that really thought they should be together, several people that really thought they should be separate, and a few people who seemed on the fence. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 23:19, 5 August 2016 (EDT)
:: '''Keep''' them merged. Any argument for splitting them is either arbitrary and could be applied to numerous other characters ([[Brawl (Movie)]], [[Vortex (Movie)]], [[Sideswipe (Movie)]], [[Swerve (Movie)]], [[Hound (Movie)]] and [[Lockdown (ROTF)]], to name a few), or based on [[authorial intent]].--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 09:02, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
::: None of those guys have the same problem of irreconcilable fiction and lots of it, and none of them right now have new material coming up on a regular basis. (The only big issue there is Brawl because Titan went "oh uh it's twins" and in practice that's been easy to skim over) --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 14:52, 6 August 2016 (GMT)
::::Yeah, if we'd got any significant fiction for Movie 1 Hound or ROTF Lockdown, I'd argue that they should be split. Hell, I'm still not convinced that the Lockdowns should share a page, but I'm flexible on that. Most of the ones you've brought up, I would think should share a page only because they ''both'' are based on the same vague concept ''and'' don't have large amounts of fiction in contradictory incarnations. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 11:49, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
:::::I would be up for splitting Brawl, Vortex, Sideswipe, etc though I think it would be unnecessary give how little material their non-screen versions received. But we already have [[Jetfire (Movie)]] and [[Jetfire (ROTF)]] split despite the former having no fiction whatsoever. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 12:49, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
::::::I think, fundamentally, what it comes down to me is: ''will splitting help casual fans to understand better/stop them being confused?'' In the case of RID Grimlock, Sideswipe, and probably Kickback, I think that yes, it would. With Movie Hound and Sideswipe and Vortex, there's very little understanding that would be improved by doing so, and would likely just confuse fans searching for "movie Hound", etc. In the case of the Lockdowns, they're arguably the same character by virtue of Q-Transformers, though that's obviously kinda shaky. (And splitting Brawl would be the most unnecessary pedantry in the whole world, damn.) --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 15:14, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

:: I'd vote to keep them merged, with the stipulation that we add a note of some kind explaining the discrepancy. [[User:Grum|Grum]] ([[User talk:Grum|talk]]) 09:02, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

::Split. They're wildly different characters with no visual similarity and aren't based on the same toy (WFC Grimlock not even originally from a toy!) and it means anyone browsing to look up RID Grimlock, the one they most likely will be, atm has to get through a lot of different Grimlock. --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 14:46, 6 August 2016 (GMT)

A lot of what I'm hearing from the "Keep them merged" crowd is that they don't think some of the reasons for splitting are good reasons. Let me flip it around for a minute -- can anyone think of a ''benefit'' to keeping these characters merged? Besides a slippery-slope argument that it may, someday in the future, be used to justify other splits? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 10:03, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

Split. They're very different characters. And there's no conflict between Hasbro statements and author intent here; the most relevant Hasbro statement is the one that would indicate that FoC and RiD do take place in the same timeline, in which case there can be no "different interpretation of the same characters" between them; characters who cannot be the actual same individual at different times in the same timeline therefore must be different ones with the same name. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 15:02, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

Can I vote that there should be no blanket policy here, to just evaluate on a case-by-case basis? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 16:33, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
: Absolutely, and seconded. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 16:45, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

So I count '''Split: 10''' (Xaaron, SHIELD Agent 47, Charles RB, Jim S, Riptide, Sky Shadow, Stealthyboy, NovaSaber, abates, Sabrblade), '''Keep: 2''' (Nevermore, Grum), with no guiding hand from Admin/Owners. Can we go ahead with splitting these three characters, with the understanding that no larger administrative policy is being established, and future cases should still be evaluated on an individual basis? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 10:42, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
:I mentioned it on the Allspark, but I don't have any particularly strong preference so long it's applied consistently for all the applicable Aligned characters, and not just Grimlock. I do kind of question the sense in still treating Aligned like it's still a single timeline under Squint Test rules, since it seems reasonably certain, between RID Grimlock's existence and the departure of Hasbro folks like Archer, that that concept has been thrown out the window. But I also feel like splitting these characters has benefits in terms of accessibility for the casual user, and I guess that's why I'm not going to vote against – I think I probably would if it felt entirely like meaningless "furniture rearrangement" (as Sipher puts it). I think it's worth putting out one final call for people to 'vote' on the Allspark thread before going ahead with the split. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 11:19, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
::Also, as a postscript: if the splits do go ahead, links will need updating pretty hasty-like, or else there'll be a hell of a lot of potential for confusion. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 11:26, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
:::Relinked episodes 1-12 and the main RID series page so far. Moving on to the non-show relinks now. --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 02:00, 8 August 2016 (GMT)
::::Every image and linked-to non-TV-story on Grim's page has been relinked, plus the RID toyline page. Just the rest of the eps and other character's pages to go--[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 02:30, 8 August 2016 (GMT)
:::::Eps and main Autobots relinked--[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 02:50, 8 August 2016 (GMT)
::::::I think I've got all of the remaining articles, so there's just a pile of images with links to the wrong Grimlock in their descriptions. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 07:11, 8 August 2016 (EDT)
:Throwing my vote in while I still can. I said it on The Allspark an will say it here that I'm in favor of splitting the Grimlock, Sideswipe, and Kickback articles. Although... [[Blurr (Prime)]] might be a fourth contender for splitting as well, but I'm not as eager to see that one split as the other three, so I won't fight for that one as much if enough people object to splitting the Blurr page. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 14:27, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
::Hrm. Yeah, I'd say split the Blurrs, too. They've really only got "car what goes fast" in common, and really, what ''else'' is a bot called Blurr going to turn into? With that one in particular, they're so different that there's no way to reconcile them for an opening paragraph other than the faux-narrative of "first he was this, then he was this". --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:38, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
:I'm actually in favour of split. Not sure I'm particularly worried about Kickback, but Grimlock and Sideswipe definitely. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 18:34, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
Starting on Sideswipe now. Though, come to think of it, is it necessary to title ''Robots in Disguise'' Sideswipe at "Sideswipe (RID 2015)" since the 2001 guy has a space in his name? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 11:15, 8 August 2016 (EDT)
::No, strictly speaking it wouldn't need the 2015, though it's probably a case where an argument could be made for making an exception? [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 12:36, 8 August 2016 (EDT)

== Generations toyline page ==

A thought: do the ''Combiner Wars'' and ''Titans Return'' sublines merit their own pages? The [[Transformers: Generations|''Generations'' page]] has exceeded the length of even the [[The Transformers (toyline)|U.S. G1 toyline page]], and barring some unforeseen financial disaster at Hasbro, we know that the Prime Wars Trilogy will get another entry after ''Titans Return''. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 16:28, 14 August 2016 (EDT)
:I agree. Given how the "''Combiner Wars''" and "''Titans Return''" names overshadow the "''Generations''" name on the packaging, I think we should give them their own page. The fact that each also has a [[Combiner Wars (franchise)|franchise]] [[Titans Return (franchise)|page]] I think warrants this expansion. --[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 18:20, 14 August 2016 (EDT)
:I'm on board with that.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 06:27, 15 August 2016 (EDT)
::Given that Combiner Wars, Titans Return and the next line are under the "Prime Wars" umbrella, maybe we should make a Prime Wars subpage for Generations, similar to the way certain character pages have a separate Toys page, and put the toys in those three lines on that page.[[User:Stealthyboy|Stealthyboy]] ([[User talk:Stealthyboy|talk]]) 17:10, 18 August 2016 (EDT)
Anyone in opposition to this motion? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 00:09, 21 August 2016 (EDT)
:Splitting is probably the least unwieldy option, or will be eventually, so I don't see why not. [[User:Item42|Item42]] ([[User talk:Item42|talk]]) 00:32, 21 August 2016 (EDT)
I'd been considering this myself for a while. My suggestion, I guess, would be splitting it three ways, by logo/branding - original, FOC/T30, and Prime Wars. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 04:45, 21 August 2016 (EDT)
:I think the original Deluxe line, FoC, and T30 can all stay on the same Generations page since their packaging has "Transformers: Generations" as the main thing. I'd even argue splitting up Combiner Wars and Titans Return into their own pages given that (as far as I know) Prime Wars wasn't mentioned on their toy packaging. --[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 11:55, 21 August 2016 (EDT)
::Of course the argument "size of the logo on the packaging" opens a whole can of worms again regarding ''[[Reveal the Shield]]'', which we currently consider a [[subline imprint]] of [[Transformers (2010 toyline)|''Transformers'' (2010)]]… Long story short, the title "Reveal the Shield" on the packaging has the same size and font and all as the concurrently available original ''[[Transformers: Generations|Generations]]'' Deluxe line's title (seriouly, just judging from the packaging alone, [http://imgur.com/a/Mhhjr how is the right one a toy line and the left one only a subline imprint]?)… on the other hand, all the ''Reveal the Shield'' assortments were continued from the 2010 ''Transformers'' line's general retail assortments ([http://imgur.com/B2YWKYd same assortment numbers]), which were simpy branded ''Transformers'' with additional stickers for the ''[[Hunt for the Decepticons]]'' promotion and Jesus Christ on a bicycle 2010's branding was confusing as hell.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 15:34, 22 August 2016 (EDT)
:::''Combiner Wars'' and ''Titans Return'', though, are subline imprints with noteworthy fiction due to their status as multimedia branding. If and when I get to separating out the toylines into their own articles, I believe I will focus on those two. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 23:40, 25 August 2016 (EDT)

== Masterforce humans and transtectors ==

Um, why are we separating the human Minerva, Ginrai, etc. from the robot Minerva, Ginrai, etc? Especially considering that we just fairly recently combined the organic Nebulan Peacemaker (et al.) and the robotic Peaceman (et al.). --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:39, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
:Well, it's not really a comparable situation to Peacemaker and co. - this is robot and human versions of the same character co-existing together in the same world, not a character being variably robot or human in different universes. With new fiction (and probably more to come) of the humans and robots off doing separate stuff, splitting them out is probably the solution that leads to the least-confusing biography write-ups... [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 12:46, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
::We already did this almost two years ago for [[Shūta Gō]] and [[Goshooter]] when they appeared simultaneously in order to keep track of them better. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 12:49, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
:::What Jalaguy said. Otherwise we get alternating paragraphs of human and robot Minerva fiction which only confuse readers. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 16:16, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
::::Should their toys be split onto subpages as well then? It seems redundant to have exactly the same section on both pages.[[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 17:10, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
:::::They're not that long and they don't have the exact same set of toys. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 17:14, 30 August 2016 (EDT)

==Bios by Universal Stream==
For characters like Jhiaxus who have totally different personalities, I think we should have individual bios placed above their fiction. Though we do note that certain characters have wildly different portrayals, we never really explain their personality, simply listing what happens in their fictional appearances. This could also count for locations as well. For example, Cybertron is a very different planet in several continuities, yet we don't usually have individual descriptions of each version. Currently we (for the most part) only list the history of the planet, not its defining physical characteristics. I'm not talking about a long bio, just a few sentences to clarify the differences with its other versions. Does anyone else agree? --[[User:Halfshell25|Halfshell25]] 12:31, 04 September 2016 (EDT)

== Titan Master toy info accessibility ==

To account for ''Titans Return'' Titan Masters whose names and personalities match the large classic dudes instead of the small classic dudes they tend to physically resemble, I have added links in the 1980s Nebulans' toy sections pointing to the large guy's ''Titans Return'' toys. How does everyone feel about this? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 22:23, 8 September 2016 (EDT)
:Sounds good to me. I was going to put the full entries on their pages, but this probably works better. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 06:57, 9 September 2016 (EDT)
::Personalities? I am intrigued. How do you know what their personalities are? There are no bios or anything. - [[User:Gimmick|Gimmick]] ([[User talk:Gimmick|talk]]) 18:18, 9 September 2016 (EDT)
:::Haven't you seen the packaging backsides? Or the [[Titans Return: The Power of the Titan Masters|available on the Internet catalog]]? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 19:25, 9 September 2016 (EDT)
::::I know about the catalog bios, but the single-packed Titan Masters really don't have bios anywhere on their package. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 20:28, 9 September 2016 (EDT)
:::::Yeah, the single-packed TMs don't have their bios on their packaging, just in the storybook/catalogue and on their Hasbro.com listings. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 08:02, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
::::::I haven't read the Comic-Con storybook, but thanks for the heads up on the Hasbro.com bios. The Wiki could probably say more about that. Although I think I would rather not have known that some Titan Masters have their big-guy personality just because in the real life universe, their toy was packaged individually. Personal canon: Titan Master Fangry's superpower is that he comes with Google Maps preinstalled. - [[User:Gimmick|Gimmick]] ([[User talk:Gimmick|talk]]) 10:49, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
:Should the same system be used for [[Emissary (Generations)|Emissary]] on [[Spike_Witwicky_(G1)|Spike]] and [[Galen Kord|Galen's]] pages? At the moment the full entry for Emissary is on Spike's page with nothing on Galen's, even though the G1 toy is on both. [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 07:06, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
::Emissary is designed to look like Spike and Galen's armor, though. That's more in common than there is between the single Titan Masters and their corresponding Nebulans, who basically have "turns into the same head" as the only reason to associate them. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 14:59, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I suppose, but there are a lot of toys that look very similar to a previous character but aren't on their page. [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 11:34, 12 September 2016 (EDT)

== Add links to uploaded videos of episodes in the articles for episodes? ==

I have been watching the G1 on dailymotion and all thanks to this wiki, I just check the list of episodes and look for it in a couple of chosen favorite channels.
I thought that maybe it'd be cool if we could simply add links to the episodes in the articles themselves?

As a bonus, we could also form a team and:
* Set up our own channel.
* Collect the best quality versions of the episodes from various sources.
* Link to those videos in the articles. --[[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 03:20, 14 September 2016 (EDT)
:Nope. The wiki is ''not'' going to endorse piracy. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 03:28, 14 September 2016 (EDT)
::That would give Hasbro a nice, easy reason to shut the wiki down, which is not what we're after. When it's all out for purchase, it's not fair to them to put it up illegally. [[User:AkibaSilver|AkibaSilver]] ([[User talk:AkibaSilver|talk]]) 08:31, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:Christ no. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 15:25, 15 September 2016 (EDT)

== Animation/continuity errors ==

Hey, this is just a little thing - I'm not proposing anything, just mentioning this with a view to moving forward, but I really dislike how on episode pages we put errors first. I get why, it's a carryover from our G1 episode pages being some of the first things we ever did, and errors being perhaps the most famous, most catalogue-able thing about that series. But it's an out-of-place, and frankly I think demeaning, thing to have as the first entry for an average modern cartoon episode when there's plenty of other, more "relevant" information to provide ahead of mistakes. We don't do it for comics, and I don't like it on episodes either. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 14:06, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'd say go ahead and make a proposal to change it. You have my vote behind you. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 14:49, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'm beyond okay with this and absolutely in favor of making this a broad-scale change to existing pages. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 15:13, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:Yup, also very much behind this. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 15:21, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:If we're re-ordering anyway, does anyone else think it would be more informative to "continuity errors" always follow "continuity notes" for episodes that have both, even if it means "continuity errors" is no longer consecutive with "animation and technical errors"? [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 15:51, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
::I wouldn't be adverse to making the errors a subset of notes, really. I mean, a continuity error IS technically a note about continuity. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 16:05, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I'm not sure, with modern shows, that we even ''need'' separate sections for "continuity errors" and "animation errors." Again, with G1 - yes, we did, because there were so many. But such things are so rare now that a simple "Errors" section seems like all we need to everything effectively.
::::Ehn, I feel like keeping all the continuity bits together, be they complimentary or clashing, makes more sense than lumping the continuity-clashes with "someone forgot to texture that panel in that one shot". --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 16:15, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
::I agree. Although, personally, I don't see a reason to bundle it up under one "Errors" heading. As a reader, I would like them to be under relevant headings. --[[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 14:29, 18 September 2016 (EDT)

== Japanese UT character disambig tags ==

Would anyone object to me simplifying the tags "(Micron Densetsu)", "(Super Link)", and "(Galaxy Force)" for Japanese-original Unicron Trilogy characters with such tags down to just "(MD)", "(SL)", and "(GF)"? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 00:48, 20 September 2016 (EDT)
:Go for it! --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 01:09, 20 September 2016 (EDT)

== RID/G1 character merges ==

What with the steadily increasing numbers of RID 2001 characters imported into Generation 1 based continuities with basically no differences, I feel like we should probably just merge their G1 counterparts into the RID pages and be done with it, especially with the blurred lines of Car Robots involved; we're already doing so for Wind Sheer and Skyfire. This would (probably) mean merging the following pages:
* Bruticus (CR) into [[Bruticus (RID)]]
* [[Cryotek (Universe)]] into [[Cryotek (RID)]]
* Dark Scream (G1) into [[Dark Scream]]
* Emissary (BW) into [[Emissary (RID)]]
* Gigatron (G1) into [[Megatron (RID)]]
* [[Jhiaxus (RID)]] into [[Jhiaxus (G2)]]
* Side Burn (G1) into [[Side Burn (RID)]] (arguable)
* Sky-Byte (G2) into [[Sky-Byte (RID)]]
* Slapper (Universe) into [[Slapper (RID)]]
* And probably [[Predacon (RID)]] into [[Predacon (BW)]] as well; the latter kind of needs a more continuity-neutral reformat anyway.
I just feel like all these fairly arbitrary splits for guys who are intended to be ''pretty much'' the same characters, coupled with the explanatory blocks of text about Japanese G1 continuity, is making this more complicated than it needs to be. Thoughs? --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 11:54, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:Yup. About time too. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 12:04, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'm down. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 12:11, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:[[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive60#Probably an unpopular thought, but...|Always been for it.]] I'm not sure if I'm on board with Hasbro-original characters like Jhiaxus and Cryotek, but I'll accept them if it means the CR guys get merged. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 12:21, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:Oppose. RID is not only a separate continuity, but also a separate multiversal stream. To start merging these characters just because they're broadly similar doesn't really make sense. After all, ''Animated'' [[Ransack (Animated)|Ransack]] and [[Crumplezone (Animated)|Crumplezone]] are practically identical in personality and design to their ''Cybertron'' counterparts, but we acknowledge them as separate distinct entities. And characters imported into G1 like Sky-Byte have shown up in three different continuities. Would this also mean ''Universe'' [[Ratchet (Universe)|Ratchet]] gets folded in with G1 [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]]? Plus, this could lead to confusion by someone wondering "Why isn't all the info about Fire Truck Optimus with Old Optimus?" I think by this point we're long past merging RID and G1 in any form other than the brief "in Japan, this cartoon is G1 because dumb reasons." --[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 12:47, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::The difference between G1 and RID is inherently different to the difference between G1 and Animated because of Car Robots. People wouldn't wonder why RID Optimus wasn't with G1 Optimus because they have distinct designs and personalities, and have existed in the same continuity. We already have different incarnations of the same character from separate continuity families sharing pages, so it's not like this is going to start a slippery slope. (And no, Universe and G1 Ratchet would not be merged, for the same reason that RID and G1 Prowl would not be merged.) --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 13:02, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:::The only slippery slope involved here is the one we're already sliding down that involves more and more RID characters appearing in G1 stories that makes this a more plausible action to take. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:06, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:::Except this wiki has always used the American-based fiction as it's primary source, where RID is separate from everything. And even Car Robots being G1 is the result of a freaking RETCON. I'd even argue that any characters who do have multiple continuities on their page be split (though the only examples that come to mind are former Multiversal Singularities like Unicron or Vector Prime, which were only created that way ''because'' they were multiversal singularities.)

:::Also, If I end up getting out voted on this, I'd at least like to argue against merging Side Burn, Jhiaxus, and GIgatron/Megatron. Because G1 Side Burn does differ from RID in a few notable ways (most notably NOT being brother to a guy named Prowl), Jhiaxus is more of a repurposing, and not only is there already a Megatron in the IDW comics, there's a Gigatron in the Animated universe that is also based on RID Megs. And if we're merging BW Bruticus into RID Bruticus, we'd also have to merge TF 2010 Backstop, Underbite, and Wreckloose in with their Cybertron counterparts. All in all, this seems like it's becoming more of a headache than just keeping them separate.--[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 14:41, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::::This is kind of a weird string of complaints that don't really logically bear on anything. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:17, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'd be fine with this. Certainly seems preferable to weird crap like Sky-Byte having Japanese G1 fiction on one article and Hasbro G1 fiction on another. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]])
:I agree with the general idea and most of the examples, but I'd say Jhiaxus isn't really the same situation as the rest. I'm not sure about the factions either. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 14:45, 21 September 2016 (EDT)

Some other stuff that could stand to be merged:
*Hound (RID) into [[Hound (G1)]]
*Sky Lynx (RID) into [[Sky Lynx (G1)]]
*Teletraan I (RID) into Teletraan I (G1)
Mmmmmmaybe [[Alpha Trion (RID)]]? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 13:38, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:Three "CHRIST YES"es, and a "hmnnn." - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:41, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:For what it's worth, [[Ultra Trion]]'s "Trion" bits do sure look like they came off of G1 A3... --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:15, 21 September 2016 (EDT)

How do we feel about the likes of [[Ransack (IDW)|Ransack]]? Could he stand to be merged into his ''Cybertron'' page? --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee|talk]]) 15:22, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:Eh, hang on I think I'm caught up now. Without ''Car Robots'' there's no link to G1 so he's a separate character unlike the RID guys. Is that right? --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee|talk]]) 15:27, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::Yeah, that's a separate discussion (and a merge I'd disagree with, but let's focus on the RID guys for now). [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:35, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I agree that they should be merged except Jhiaxus.--[[User:Primestar3|Primestar3]] ([[User talk:Primestar3|talk]]) 15:38, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:I think I'd be against merging anyone from different continuity families other than between G1/BW and RiD. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 15:55, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::That seems to be a reasonable rule of thumb. --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee|talk]]) 16:09, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::To be honest, I'd be kind of inclined to merge the BWU Micromaster/Mini-Con repurposings as well, just because both iterations of the characters are so insignificant, and AVP seemed to make a point of having a lot of Mini-Cons exist across continuity families... but that's a separate argument and one with no real solid logic behind it. In this particular instance, yes, leave it as G1 and RID. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 16:16, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
I'm not sure exactly what position to take, but I would say that Hasbro-original characters are somewhat different from the guys who share a CR/RiD cartoon narrative. Thus, I think RiD Alpha Trion should be looked at the same way as RiD Optimus Prime and RiD Ultra Magnus. And to add to the list of pages up for consideration:
*Plasma into [[Cerebros (RID)]]
Also, I note that the one-off text mention of IDW G1 Side Burn. Anyone know if that iteration is tied to RiD 2001 Side Burn or is an independent conception? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 16:32, 21 September 2016 (EDT)

So should we merge Cryotek and Jhiaxus? I opposed it back when because there was no real reason to while we had the others split, but now I think that it's a close enough situation that they should be merged, even if they don't have Car Robots equivalents; it's still "RID guy is used in a G1 universe". (Plus, Bruticus only has a "Car Robots" counterpart because of AVP fiction, so merging him solely on that basis while leaving the other Hasbro-originals separate feels overly nitpicky.) --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 09:02, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
:I feel like Jhiaxus is more "RID Optimus Prime and G1 Optimus Prime"—he would have had his article all along if it wasn't for 3H saying it was the original Jhiaxus. I admit I don't have an argument for Cryotek. Just preference. If you want to merge them, *shrug* [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 09:16, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
::I think they should remain separate. RiD Cryotek and Jhiaxus had independent Viron existences in the first place due to their toys, and I think their personalities are distinct. That their toys were repurposed is like ''Prime'' Ratchet's design getting repurposed in G1 for that X-Files Hearts of Steel story. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 10:33, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I think, at least in the case of Jhiaxus, "distinct personality" doesn't matter that much, because he's never been consistent. Really, I just think it's neater to have them together if the other RID characters are, especially since they both predate recent official repurposing trends; 3H's thinking was probably "Cryotek is Cryotek"/"Jhiaxus is Jhiaxus". --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 10:39, 22 September 2016 (EDT)

Wait, better argument: we're already keeping the Hasbro-original, toyline-only characters Skyfire and Wind Sheer merged across continuity families, and it'd be patently silly to split them out. I don't want to argue for consistency above all things, but in this matter, I think it'd be a good idea. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 12:42, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
:Okay, I do not necessarily agree, but I can see a case to be made that similarly to Wind Sheer and Skyfire, Cryotek is a Hasbro RiD-original guy who was extended into G1. But that does not apply to Jhiaxus. G2 Jhiaxus existed by himself for a decade before the independent RiD toy came along. RiD Jhiaxus by our policies and by logic should remain an independent page. Otherwise, we should merge ''Prime'' Ratchet into G1 Ratchet's page. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 04:20, 23 September 2016 (EDT)
::Really? Because his page only got built when I mentioned his name in Ask Vector Prime as a continuity patch as far as I know. That hardly seems like a cut-and-dried case. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 07:41, 23 September 2016 (EDT)
:::Yeah, I think that the fact that for a decade and a half the ''only'' use of RID Jhiaxus was as the G2 character makes it more fair to fudge categorization for the sake of consistency. Plus, as I said, G2 Jhiaxus is already both "tyrannical leader" and "sycophantic scientist"; is "dedicated, loyal lieutenant" that much of a step away? (Hell, you could even look at it as a halfway point between the two...)

:I disagree. One of the things I like about this wiki, is the fact that every continuity get's its own share of articles. And RID and G1 are not even part of the same continuity family. I don't see why it's even being considered and agreed to. Also, they weren't just different families, but RID is a japanese cartoon.
:You say that there are virtually no differences, so I assume that they look identical to their G1 counterparts, but what about the story? Take hound for example. I haven't watched the cartoon so I don't know, but if he didn't get a redesign, does that mean that he wasn't relevant to the story either? If that is the case, then I guess it won't kill to merge. --[[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 09:44, 24 September 2016 (EDT)

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2016-09-24T13:44:15Z

Furhun: /* RID/G1 character merges */

__NEWSECTIONLINK__

This is the place for discussion of topics that affect the entire wiki. Some topics that would ordinarily be here have merited their own pages:

{{chapters|title=Specific Discussion Subjects|align=left|content=
<div class="list-header">'''Moving From Wikia:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving|Arriving]]
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{{:{{FULLPAGENAMEE}}/Archive}}


== IDW Revolution ==

So the preview for ''Rom'' #1 shows the EDC in it and we can probably expect more of this sort of thing. This could be a problem for recording stuff, since the EDC is a Transformers concept but if it becomes a ''Rom'' one too, we technically need to put a lot of Rom storylinks here.

So should we do a rule that it has to be ''specifically'' a Transformer appearing to get covered, and otherwise we'll put it in Notes ("the EDC also shoot Rom!!")? --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 17:17, 7 June 2016 (GMT)

:I think the closest thing we have to an existing standard is [[Unfoldings!|G.I. Joe #138]], a comic that is not an identified crossover with Transformers and contains the most minor of guest-appearances inside. The full issue is summarized on this site, and details of that issue appear in the fiction section of every character, even ones like [[Wild Bill]] who had no contact with Transformers whatsoever for the story.

:Beyond that "standard", though, you're right that we will need to establish a rule for when Hasbro/IDW Universe stories are covered. Only when Transformers appear in the issue? Transformers characters? Transformers concepts? If Blackrock appears in MASK #3, do we cover that issue based on that alone? What if there's also a one-panel flashback of Blackrock with Galvatron? Do we cover it then? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 12:50, 7 June 2016 (EDT)

::My two cents. If it's not a piece of Transformers fiction, it generally only gets mentioned in the notes, even if a nominally-TF character appears. Major characters (you can decide who fits) can tip the scales, and situations like GI Joe #138 get included because that issue is essential to understanding issue #139 (where the crossover is first explicitly mentioned, but where the action is already well in play as the issue opens, and #138 is necessary to understand how we got there. Note also that a major TF character appears in #138, if only briefly). These general guidelines should be able to suffice for the most part. --[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] ([[User talk:G.B. Blackrock|talk]]) 13:32, 7 June 2016 (EDT)

:::Disagree on #138. It's completely unnecessary for understanding #139 ("Megatron is attacking the castle!" is pretty clearly conveyed by the splash page), and it actually ''confuses'' the situation, since the shadowy conversation in #138 is ignored or outright contradicted later in the story.

:::But regardless, that brings us back around to "What's a major character?" Only Transformers? Pre-IDW humans like Fairborne, Spike, and Blackrock as well? Jimmy Pink and Jones? What if Battle Force 2000 encounters the Enigma of Combination? What if MASK travels to Cybertron, but no identifiable Transformers appear? I realize a lot of these questions can't be answered until it happens, but some idea where everyone sits on the matter should be established ahead of time, if we can. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 13:46, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::If it's not an explicit and branded crossover we should have minimal coverage. If an actual Transformer shows up in another book, we cover his appearance but that's it. 138 is probably covered in too much detail already. Transformers concepts and settings and human companions appearing in other books are notes. --[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 14:15, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::I think if a Transformer or other Clearly A Transformers-Franchise Character like Blackrock, Marissa, Spike, etc. shows up in another title's issue, than that issue should get fully covered as a crossover regardless of "branding." A TF-originated ''concept'', however, like the EDC, putting in an appearance probably doesn't need to be more than a note somewhere. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 14:49, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::No. We don't cover every Marvel Comics issue Death's Head's shown up in following his departure from the TF universe. And before you "WELL ACTUALLY" me, he's only not a Fully Legal Transformers Character on the most petty of technicalities. He was made to be a Transformers character and given a legal out to be used elsewhere without paying Hasbro.<br>
::::::AT MOST, non-Transformers books should be lumped together in a fiction section on the franchise in question's page. Personally I have grave doubts as to just how much character bleed there actually will be, as well as how long any of these titles are even going to ''last''. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 15:03, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::WELL ACTUALLY another difference there is that, like you said, Death's Head ''departed'' the TF universe. He was taken away from the TF franchise and given to Marvel-at-large. This has not happened with say, Marissa Fairborn, who is still a Transformers character. Her "home title" is still The Transformers. A hypothetical Marissa Fairborn guest appearance in an issue of M.A.S.K. is, IMO, just as much of a TF crossover as an appearance of, say, Cosmos or Soundwave would be. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 15:22, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::::Which should still be relegated to a singular fiction section on the not-Transformers franchise page. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 15:41, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::But the fact that that legal out was ''created'' would, I think, make him a Marvel-by-way-of-Transformers character. He may have been ''created'' for Transformers, but he was also created to be ''used'' outside Transformers. Plus, uh, what Kil said.
:::::::My proposal: only issues with Transformers in get their own pages; any other appearances of TF characters and concepts go on a single page for the whole franchise/comic. Doesn't leave anything out, but also doesn't overstep the wiki's bounds. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 15:44, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::::Death's Head's legal reality is exactly why he's in those non-Transformers stories in the first place; I don't think he's a good example. I think sticking to things that cannot exist out of a ''Transformers'' context (i.e. the Enigma of Combination, Optimus Prime, etc.) is a okay baseline. The EDC can always serve as a generic "defense against aggressive aliens" organization independent of Transformers, but things like the Matrix can't. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:56, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::Transformers get full writeups and bestow full writeup coverage on the issues in which they appear. TF-originating non-TF characters and concepts (Spike, EDC, the Enigma, cosmic rust) get very brief mentions within the main bodies of their articles, in proper chronological order in the IDW Fiction sections, with storylinks properly annotated; these storylinks would be redirected to the main non-TF-franchise comic page. IE "storylink|ROM #6" just goes to the ROM comic. ROM (character) does not have any of his own adventures chronicled ever except when he's doing it right next to a Transformer, regardless of title. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 19:11, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::"Transformers get full writeups and bestow full writeup coverage on the issues in which they appear." No. A one-panel cameo does not mean we write up the entire issue as its own article. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 19:34, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::We've got full pages for the non-Transformers Infestation comics and Unit:E, just putting that out there. It's not like covering issues in which Transformers appear is going to lead to people insisting we cover the entirety of okay actually I may be giving the average wiki user too much credit --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 19:46, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::::I'd much rather just lose the full page coverage for Unit E and non-TF Infestation than start giving it to all these new comics. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep|talk]]) 19:49, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::BINGO. It's not before anymore. We live in a very different world than when a lot of this wiki's "standards" were crafted. What worked when TFs was a healthy-yet-niche franchise, perhaps not so much now that it's being used as a tentpole for a lot of other things. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 20:27, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::Disagreed, I guess. I feel like if it's a book by a Hasbro licensee using their Transformers license to use Transformers in the story, it doesn't particularly matter what the name on the book is. Sure, if it's, like, a 1-panel flashback or something we wouldn't even mention otherwise, we can leave it out, but if they have a bigger role, it shouldn't need "The Transformers" on the cover to get a writeup. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:23, 8 June 2016 (EDT)
::::::I'm down with "Transformers get full writeups and bestow full writeup coverage on the issues in which they appear", with the caveat of "except when it's a minor cameo" (i.e. not Megatron showing up in Joe #138 as he's the cliffhanger but like how Nick Fury's making a cameo in TF #3 to go "look this guy's paying attention). Anything else goes in Notes unless & until it explicitly impacts on a Transformers comic, i.e. crossover stories. --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]} 04:05, 8 June 2016 GMT
::::::: Hum, so... Not a total coverage, got it. But some Locations have had their own articles just because they were in the Hasbro 'verse. All that Star Wars stuff for example is mostly unrelated. If there is such a thing like an official Hasbro 'verse... shouldn't we start to list planets from other continuities? Or does that also fall under the category of "only if a Transformer / EDC member ever puts his feet /wheels on it"? Other more precise locations may clearly not fit in here, but planets? I feel as if the Planets and stars existing in IDW's Rom are are much more observable from Earth or Cybertron than some other stuff we already have. Anyway, I'm just asking before I begin to do any unnecessary work.[[User:Xunk16|Xunk16]] ([[User talk:Xunk16|talk]]) 02:19, 23 September 2016 (EDT)
::::::::If it appears in an issue that we're covering (i.e. an issue with Transformers in), then it can get an article. If it doesn't, it doesn't. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 04:23, 23 September 2016 (EDT)

==Gobots Sister Wiki Progress==
Has anyone ever made any progress on the Gobots sister wiki? I have no experience in creating wikis, but would love to see this get made. -[[User:Halfshell25|Halfshell25]] ([[User talk:Halfshell25|talk]]) 19:21, 22 June 2016 (EDT)

== "Foreign Names" ==
The original Mandarin names of the Chinese MMO characters are not their "foreign names" and it is factually inaccurate to label them as such. The AVP replacement names are actually the "foreign" ones. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 08:45, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:Wouldn't the same objection apply to [[Ricochet (Headmasters)]] and the entirety of the Unicron Trilogy's characters? Perhaps a change to the title of the section would be appropriate, but I just read the heading as "names in a language other than English". --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 09:16, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::UT characters are in a much different position, since they were developed with both the English-speaking audience and the Japanese audience in mind, they weren't created for Japan and then imported elsewhere. I would also note that "Foreign names" isn't used to mean "names in a language other than English" on the Beastformers' articles, which list their English names under that header. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 09:56, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::What kind of a change would you suggest? Is it a matter of semantics, like we could change the headers to "International names"? Personally, I never thought the "Foreign names" header intimated something suggesting that the names were "secondary", just that we use English language names where appropriate and list the international/foreign ones at the bottom where appropriate. I don't think country of origin ever really factored into it. And we use the Foreign names section even when characters have the same names across languages, but render them in that language's alphabet for ease of reference (admittedly, we've been rather sloppy about that, particularly the similar Foreign localization sections of episodes where sometimes we list a language's info and sometimes we don't). While we could definitely stand to be more complete/precise across the board, I think altering the section titles based on country of origin would only confuse things for casual browsers. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 10:28, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::Honestly the main thing I wanna suggest is un-reverting the changes to the MMO characters back to "Original Mandarin Name" in place of "Foreign name" as that just more accurate, IMO. I also think that if the intent of the wiki is that "Foreign names" be read as "non-English names" then maybe "English" shouldn't actually appear under that header, as it does for Beastformers and Omni Producion dubs. And if "Foreign names" is actually supposed to mean "Names given to character in foreign markets" then should the name given in their ''original'' market actually be under there? Should a character's original name ever be labelled "foreign"? My gut instinct is to say "no" to that. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 11:16, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::They are foreign to our main readership, which is primarily Americans. That's what it means, regardless of whether the character is a foreign creation. We've had examples like [[Ricochet (Headmasters)|Ricochet/Stepper]], [[Snowblind|Snowblind/Beacon]], and [[Optimus Prime (RID)|Optimus Prime/Fire Convoy]] for years. Why is this any different? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 12:04, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::I don't know! Maybe it isn't! Maybe all characters should always have their original name listed as such instead of just being under the "Foreign names" header! Maybe they shouldn't! Maybe! --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:16, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::Foreign is always understood as being in relation to the speaker. As this wiki is English speaking, all non-English names are foreign, even if they are the original names for those characters. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:11, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::::Again, if "all non-English name are foreign" then maaaaaaaaybe the word "English" shouldn't be appearing beneath the "Foreign names" header on any articles? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:19, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::::That's a more valid point, though it is mainly used for the Omni Productions dub which is pretty foreign to anything close to English...or good.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:23, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::::::As we currently have it set up for English/Omni names, it looks like this:

*''English:'' '''Billy''' ([[Omni Productions]] dub), '''Blaster''' ([[Omni Productions]] dub Twincast)

While it seems pretty clear by having the Omni Productions note in parenthesis by the names, maybe it would look better like this?

*''English ([[Omni Productions]] dub):'' '''Billy''' (as Blaster), '''Blaster''' (as Twincast)

Is that better or worse or not even worth the effort? Personally, I don't have a dog in this race; I kinda think things are okay as-is. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 12:35, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:I was walking about the presence of "English" beneath a "Foreign names" header at all if the intended meaning of "Foreign names" is "non-English." So this isn't really addressing that? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:45, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::There isn't really any other good place for these names to go. Unless you want to elevate them to the level of legitimate English variants (like Hot Rod vs Rodimus Prime or Bluestreak vs Silverstreak). I would find it a lot more disturbing to see "Also known as Billy" in Blaster's intro. Oh, and I agree with Speng's new version of the listing. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:57, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::Okay, but then, what else could we call it? How else could we catalog that info? Should we put the Omni names at the top of the article alongside the "Sometimes he is known as..." notation at the bottom of the intro? I dunno if anybody would like that. I get what you're saying about having "English" under Foreign names when we default to English as a standard, but I'm not sure of a better way to catalog their Omni names aside from how we have it (English with Omni in parenthesis) (EDIT: Ah, Khajida beat me to the punch by 2 minutes). --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 12:59, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::I mean, I suppose just listing "Omni Productions Dub" without the word English next to it would read better? Or listing it's country of origin instead of language, rendering the meaning on "Foreign" as "non-American" rather than "non-English?" --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 13:05, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::The Omni dubs are a very strange situation, though, and probably not something we need to build a whole policy around. Surely if we have a working system in place that reads a little strange in this one case we don't need to revamp everything. We can make some kind of reasonable exception just for Omni and call it a day.--[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 13:39, 14 July 2016 (EDT)
::::::Right. I think we're digressing from Kil's original complaint. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:38, 14 July 2016 (EDT)

== Striking Unit:E from the record ==

As someone who has been adding a bunch of pages for the newly introduced Hasbro properties that are part of IDW's Revolution, I think we're hitting a bit of a snag: Unit:E.
Unit:E was supposed to spin-out of Prime, which would put it in the Aligned continuity, while all the Revolution stuff is based in G1 continuity. As such, including info on both IDW Action Man and Unit:E Action Man on the same page doesn't make sense (especially when that page was built solely with IDW in mind.) However, this is a Transformers Wiki, and I don't think we need Action Man (IDW) and Action Man (Unit:E)
This kind of thing WILL spiral out of control, and will only get worse with things like G.I. Joe characters (who are all G1 based) and Micronauts (because Acroyear is so different between the two incarnations.)
As such, I propose that we set a precedent to excise ANY Unit:E-based material, with the exception of how it directly relates to the Transformers. Meaning the page on the actual group mentioned in Prime and the comic itself would stay, but unless Transformers were involved, the events aren't referenced. [[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 19:57 15 July 2016 (EST)
:Or we could just leave them on the same pages like we already are now. Don't overcomplicate things. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 20:27, 15 July 2016 (EDT)
::The way we handle non-Transformers original characters is to keep all appearances together on the same page. So, if Destro shows up in Animated, and again in G1, we don't make two articles. No need for an Action Man (Aligned) and an Action Man (G1) under this scheme. Having them on the same page is a simple and elegant solution. --[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 20:39, 15 July 2016 (EDT)
:::My issue with Unit:E is that none of the characters actually interact, and the multiversal nature of the story means that the Action Man featured there may not even have Transformers in his own universe, meaning his adventures would fall into the Megaverse, and thus outside this wiki's domain. The Unit:E information is therefore superfluous. Unit:E is also not a Transformers-branded piece of media. Notice we don't record the G.I. Joe events of Infestation. --[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 20:53 15 July 2015 (EST)
::::Because those issues do not have Transformers in them. Unit:E does, and I'm seriously having a hard time seeing the harm in detailing an one-shot issue that didn't amount to anything and that nobody else will cover. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 22:57, 15 July 2016 (EDT)
:::::The Unit:E stuff is G1 already though. Arcee, Jazz, Optimus Prime and Bumblebee are all seen as distinctly G1 incarnations of those characters. There isn't even a need to consider the fact that one spin-off is G1 and another is Aligned since that's not the case. --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron|talk]]) 00:40, 16 July 2016 (EDT)

== Aligned characters ==

[http://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/101932-tfwikinet-thread-30/page-247 As brought up here on the Allspark], is there any momentum to split the RiD2015 incarnations of characters such as [[Grimlock (WFC)]], [[Sideswipe (WFC)]], and [[Kickback (FOC)]]? A highly broken concept as it is, the Aligned continuity family does roughly fit together as one timeline. As the three aforementioned RiD characters quite obviously do not share the looks and personalities of the WfC/FoC characters, I, for one, do not see how to reconcile them as the WfC/FoC characters at a new stage of their lives. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 01:57, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
:Yeah, I've come around to the idea that they just don't have that much in common between names and altmodes (or, er, robot modes). I vote to split. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 04:52, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
::For the reasons I've laid out on the AllSpark and on Sideswipe (WFC)'s talk page, I also think they should be split. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 07:24, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
:::I also vote split. And just because I think this is a really useful way to conceptualize things, I want to repeat my formulation from the AllSpark thread:
::::''Let me present this little thought experiment. Let's say that the RID 15 guy was named "Trapjaw", an early name for Grimlock. Maybe for copyright reasons, maybe for creative reasons, we don't know specifically. Would we still be inclined to keep the pages merged? This is an issue that has been a part of the Transformers brand since 1984 (see: Jetfire and Skyfire, who do indeed share a page). Shockblasts comfortably share pages with Shockwaves, Silverstreaks with Bluestreaks, Jazzs with Meisters. Likewise, characters since G1 have shared names and yet not been the same characters: Sky High is the earliest example. In this case, take away the name, and is there any reason to keep them merged? If your answer to this question is no, then you should probably be in favor of a split. ''
:::I think this is an abstract enough test to be useful in a variety of cases where there is name reuse but little else. I've tested it against various counterexamples and (BW vs G1 Megatron, Octane and Tankor, various Unicron Trilogy Mini-Con nameslaps, toon vs comic Blaster) and it always seems to produce the 'correct' answer. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 09:52, 4 August 2016 (EDT)
::::This test is a fantastic measure and one I wholly advocate, but I'll note that this metric places ROTF and AOE Lockdown's merger on relatively shaky footing. Whether that's a good or bad thing is uncertain, but I'd say it's worth it to make sure these RID articles are split. [[User:Sky Shadow|Sky Shadow]] ([[User talk:Sky Shadow|talk]]) 08:29, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
[http://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/101932-tfwikinet-thread-30/?p=3302429 Spectre makes a good point here] about the distinctiveness of Grimlock and Sideswipe. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 21:26, 4 August 2016 (EDT)

So...absent any complaints or counter-arguments in the next 24 hours, I say we go ahead and begin splitting these three characters. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 10:38, 5 August 2016 (EDT)
:As much as my vote matters, I agree with splitting them. [[User:Stealthyboy|Stealthyboy]] ([[User talk:Stealthyboy|talk]]) 13:04, 5 August 2016 (EDT)

So far what I'm getting from the Allspark thread is that it's highly subjective whether anyone thinks FOC Grimlock and RID Grimlock should share a page because they're both based on G1 Grimlock, or whether the differences between the two characters are enough that they should get separate pages. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 19:37, 5 August 2016 (EDT)
: Really? I got the sense that there was one guy that really thought they should be together, several people that really thought they should be separate, and a few people who seemed on the fence. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 23:19, 5 August 2016 (EDT)
:: '''Keep''' them merged. Any argument for splitting them is either arbitrary and could be applied to numerous other characters ([[Brawl (Movie)]], [[Vortex (Movie)]], [[Sideswipe (Movie)]], [[Swerve (Movie)]], [[Hound (Movie)]] and [[Lockdown (ROTF)]], to name a few), or based on [[authorial intent]].--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 09:02, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
::: None of those guys have the same problem of irreconcilable fiction and lots of it, and none of them right now have new material coming up on a regular basis. (The only big issue there is Brawl because Titan went "oh uh it's twins" and in practice that's been easy to skim over) --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 14:52, 6 August 2016 (GMT)
::::Yeah, if we'd got any significant fiction for Movie 1 Hound or ROTF Lockdown, I'd argue that they should be split. Hell, I'm still not convinced that the Lockdowns should share a page, but I'm flexible on that. Most of the ones you've brought up, I would think should share a page only because they ''both'' are based on the same vague concept ''and'' don't have large amounts of fiction in contradictory incarnations. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 11:49, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
:::::I would be up for splitting Brawl, Vortex, Sideswipe, etc though I think it would be unnecessary give how little material their non-screen versions received. But we already have [[Jetfire (Movie)]] and [[Jetfire (ROTF)]] split despite the former having no fiction whatsoever. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 12:49, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
::::::I think, fundamentally, what it comes down to me is: ''will splitting help casual fans to understand better/stop them being confused?'' In the case of RID Grimlock, Sideswipe, and probably Kickback, I think that yes, it would. With Movie Hound and Sideswipe and Vortex, there's very little understanding that would be improved by doing so, and would likely just confuse fans searching for "movie Hound", etc. In the case of the Lockdowns, they're arguably the same character by virtue of Q-Transformers, though that's obviously kinda shaky. (And splitting Brawl would be the most unnecessary pedantry in the whole world, damn.) --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 15:14, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

:: I'd vote to keep them merged, with the stipulation that we add a note of some kind explaining the discrepancy. [[User:Grum|Grum]] ([[User talk:Grum|talk]]) 09:02, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

::Split. They're wildly different characters with no visual similarity and aren't based on the same toy (WFC Grimlock not even originally from a toy!) and it means anyone browsing to look up RID Grimlock, the one they most likely will be, atm has to get through a lot of different Grimlock. --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 14:46, 6 August 2016 (GMT)

A lot of what I'm hearing from the "Keep them merged" crowd is that they don't think some of the reasons for splitting are good reasons. Let me flip it around for a minute -- can anyone think of a ''benefit'' to keeping these characters merged? Besides a slippery-slope argument that it may, someday in the future, be used to justify other splits? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 10:03, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

Split. They're very different characters. And there's no conflict between Hasbro statements and author intent here; the most relevant Hasbro statement is the one that would indicate that FoC and RiD do take place in the same timeline, in which case there can be no "different interpretation of the same characters" between them; characters who cannot be the actual same individual at different times in the same timeline therefore must be different ones with the same name. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 15:02, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

Can I vote that there should be no blanket policy here, to just evaluate on a case-by-case basis? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 16:33, 6 August 2016 (EDT)
: Absolutely, and seconded. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 16:45, 6 August 2016 (EDT)

So I count '''Split: 10''' (Xaaron, SHIELD Agent 47, Charles RB, Jim S, Riptide, Sky Shadow, Stealthyboy, NovaSaber, abates, Sabrblade), '''Keep: 2''' (Nevermore, Grum), with no guiding hand from Admin/Owners. Can we go ahead with splitting these three characters, with the understanding that no larger administrative policy is being established, and future cases should still be evaluated on an individual basis? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 10:42, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
:I mentioned it on the Allspark, but I don't have any particularly strong preference so long it's applied consistently for all the applicable Aligned characters, and not just Grimlock. I do kind of question the sense in still treating Aligned like it's still a single timeline under Squint Test rules, since it seems reasonably certain, between RID Grimlock's existence and the departure of Hasbro folks like Archer, that that concept has been thrown out the window. But I also feel like splitting these characters has benefits in terms of accessibility for the casual user, and I guess that's why I'm not going to vote against – I think I probably would if it felt entirely like meaningless "furniture rearrangement" (as Sipher puts it). I think it's worth putting out one final call for people to 'vote' on the Allspark thread before going ahead with the split. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 11:19, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
::Also, as a postscript: if the splits do go ahead, links will need updating pretty hasty-like, or else there'll be a hell of a lot of potential for confusion. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 11:26, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
:::Relinked episodes 1-12 and the main RID series page so far. Moving on to the non-show relinks now. --[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 02:00, 8 August 2016 (GMT)
::::Every image and linked-to non-TV-story on Grim's page has been relinked, plus the RID toyline page. Just the rest of the eps and other character's pages to go--[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 02:30, 8 August 2016 (GMT)
:::::Eps and main Autobots relinked--[[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] ([[User talk:Charles RB|talk]]) 02:50, 8 August 2016 (GMT)
::::::I think I've got all of the remaining articles, so there's just a pile of images with links to the wrong Grimlock in their descriptions. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 07:11, 8 August 2016 (EDT)
:Throwing my vote in while I still can. I said it on The Allspark an will say it here that I'm in favor of splitting the Grimlock, Sideswipe, and Kickback articles. Although... [[Blurr (Prime)]] might be a fourth contender for splitting as well, but I'm not as eager to see that one split as the other three, so I won't fight for that one as much if enough people object to splitting the Blurr page. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 14:27, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
::Hrm. Yeah, I'd say split the Blurrs, too. They've really only got "car what goes fast" in common, and really, what ''else'' is a bot called Blurr going to turn into? With that one in particular, they're so different that there's no way to reconcile them for an opening paragraph other than the faux-narrative of "first he was this, then he was this". --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:38, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
:I'm actually in favour of split. Not sure I'm particularly worried about Kickback, but Grimlock and Sideswipe definitely. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 18:34, 7 August 2016 (EDT)
Starting on Sideswipe now. Though, come to think of it, is it necessary to title ''Robots in Disguise'' Sideswipe at "Sideswipe (RID 2015)" since the 2001 guy has a space in his name? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 11:15, 8 August 2016 (EDT)
::No, strictly speaking it wouldn't need the 2015, though it's probably a case where an argument could be made for making an exception? [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 12:36, 8 August 2016 (EDT)

== Generations toyline page ==

A thought: do the ''Combiner Wars'' and ''Titans Return'' sublines merit their own pages? The [[Transformers: Generations|''Generations'' page]] has exceeded the length of even the [[The Transformers (toyline)|U.S. G1 toyline page]], and barring some unforeseen financial disaster at Hasbro, we know that the Prime Wars Trilogy will get another entry after ''Titans Return''. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 16:28, 14 August 2016 (EDT)
:I agree. Given how the "''Combiner Wars''" and "''Titans Return''" names overshadow the "''Generations''" name on the packaging, I think we should give them their own page. The fact that each also has a [[Combiner Wars (franchise)|franchise]] [[Titans Return (franchise)|page]] I think warrants this expansion. --[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 18:20, 14 August 2016 (EDT)
:I'm on board with that.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 06:27, 15 August 2016 (EDT)
::Given that Combiner Wars, Titans Return and the next line are under the "Prime Wars" umbrella, maybe we should make a Prime Wars subpage for Generations, similar to the way certain character pages have a separate Toys page, and put the toys in those three lines on that page.[[User:Stealthyboy|Stealthyboy]] ([[User talk:Stealthyboy|talk]]) 17:10, 18 August 2016 (EDT)
Anyone in opposition to this motion? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 00:09, 21 August 2016 (EDT)
:Splitting is probably the least unwieldy option, or will be eventually, so I don't see why not. [[User:Item42|Item42]] ([[User talk:Item42|talk]]) 00:32, 21 August 2016 (EDT)
I'd been considering this myself for a while. My suggestion, I guess, would be splitting it three ways, by logo/branding - original, FOC/T30, and Prime Wars. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 04:45, 21 August 2016 (EDT)
:I think the original Deluxe line, FoC, and T30 can all stay on the same Generations page since their packaging has "Transformers: Generations" as the main thing. I'd even argue splitting up Combiner Wars and Titans Return into their own pages given that (as far as I know) Prime Wars wasn't mentioned on their toy packaging. --[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 11:55, 21 August 2016 (EDT)
::Of course the argument "size of the logo on the packaging" opens a whole can of worms again regarding ''[[Reveal the Shield]]'', which we currently consider a [[subline imprint]] of [[Transformers (2010 toyline)|''Transformers'' (2010)]]… Long story short, the title "Reveal the Shield" on the packaging has the same size and font and all as the concurrently available original ''[[Transformers: Generations|Generations]]'' Deluxe line's title (seriouly, just judging from the packaging alone, [http://imgur.com/a/Mhhjr how is the right one a toy line and the left one only a subline imprint]?)… on the other hand, all the ''Reveal the Shield'' assortments were continued from the 2010 ''Transformers'' line's general retail assortments ([http://imgur.com/B2YWKYd same assortment numbers]), which were simpy branded ''Transformers'' with additional stickers for the ''[[Hunt for the Decepticons]]'' promotion and Jesus Christ on a bicycle 2010's branding was confusing as hell.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 15:34, 22 August 2016 (EDT)
:::''Combiner Wars'' and ''Titans Return'', though, are subline imprints with noteworthy fiction due to their status as multimedia branding. If and when I get to separating out the toylines into their own articles, I believe I will focus on those two. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 23:40, 25 August 2016 (EDT)

== Masterforce humans and transtectors ==

Um, why are we separating the human Minerva, Ginrai, etc. from the robot Minerva, Ginrai, etc? Especially considering that we just fairly recently combined the organic Nebulan Peacemaker (et al.) and the robotic Peaceman (et al.). --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:39, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
:Well, it's not really a comparable situation to Peacemaker and co. - this is robot and human versions of the same character co-existing together in the same world, not a character being variably robot or human in different universes. With new fiction (and probably more to come) of the humans and robots off doing separate stuff, splitting them out is probably the solution that leads to the least-confusing biography write-ups... [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 12:46, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
::We already did this almost two years ago for [[Shūta Gō]] and [[Goshooter]] when they appeared simultaneously in order to keep track of them better. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 12:49, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
:::What Jalaguy said. Otherwise we get alternating paragraphs of human and robot Minerva fiction which only confuse readers. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 16:16, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
::::Should their toys be split onto subpages as well then? It seems redundant to have exactly the same section on both pages.[[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 17:10, 30 August 2016 (EDT)
:::::They're not that long and they don't have the exact same set of toys. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 17:14, 30 August 2016 (EDT)

==Bios by Universal Stream==
For characters like Jhiaxus who have totally different personalities, I think we should have individual bios placed above their fiction. Though we do note that certain characters have wildly different portrayals, we never really explain their personality, simply listing what happens in their fictional appearances. This could also count for locations as well. For example, Cybertron is a very different planet in several continuities, yet we don't usually have individual descriptions of each version. Currently we (for the most part) only list the history of the planet, not its defining physical characteristics. I'm not talking about a long bio, just a few sentences to clarify the differences with its other versions. Does anyone else agree? --[[User:Halfshell25|Halfshell25]] 12:31, 04 September 2016 (EDT)

== Titan Master toy info accessibility ==

To account for ''Titans Return'' Titan Masters whose names and personalities match the large classic dudes instead of the small classic dudes they tend to physically resemble, I have added links in the 1980s Nebulans' toy sections pointing to the large guy's ''Titans Return'' toys. How does everyone feel about this? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 22:23, 8 September 2016 (EDT)
:Sounds good to me. I was going to put the full entries on their pages, but this probably works better. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 06:57, 9 September 2016 (EDT)
::Personalities? I am intrigued. How do you know what their personalities are? There are no bios or anything. - [[User:Gimmick|Gimmick]] ([[User talk:Gimmick|talk]]) 18:18, 9 September 2016 (EDT)
:::Haven't you seen the packaging backsides? Or the [[Titans Return: The Power of the Titan Masters|available on the Internet catalog]]? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 19:25, 9 September 2016 (EDT)
::::I know about the catalog bios, but the single-packed Titan Masters really don't have bios anywhere on their package. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 20:28, 9 September 2016 (EDT)
:::::Yeah, the single-packed TMs don't have their bios on their packaging, just in the storybook/catalogue and on their Hasbro.com listings. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 08:02, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
::::::I haven't read the Comic-Con storybook, but thanks for the heads up on the Hasbro.com bios. The Wiki could probably say more about that. Although I think I would rather not have known that some Titan Masters have their big-guy personality just because in the real life universe, their toy was packaged individually. Personal canon: Titan Master Fangry's superpower is that he comes with Google Maps preinstalled. - [[User:Gimmick|Gimmick]] ([[User talk:Gimmick|talk]]) 10:49, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
:Should the same system be used for [[Emissary (Generations)|Emissary]] on [[Spike_Witwicky_(G1)|Spike]] and [[Galen Kord|Galen's]] pages? At the moment the full entry for Emissary is on Spike's page with nothing on Galen's, even though the G1 toy is on both. [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 07:06, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
::Emissary is designed to look like Spike and Galen's armor, though. That's more in common than there is between the single Titan Masters and their corresponding Nebulans, who basically have "turns into the same head" as the only reason to associate them. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 14:59, 10 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I suppose, but there are a lot of toys that look very similar to a previous character but aren't on their page. [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 11:34, 12 September 2016 (EDT)

== Add links to uploaded videos of episodes in the articles for episodes? ==

I have been watching the G1 on dailymotion and all thanks to this wiki, I just check the list of episodes and look for it in a couple of chosen favorite channels.
I thought that maybe it'd be cool if we could simply add links to the episodes in the articles themselves?

As a bonus, we could also form a team and:
* Set up our own channel.
* Collect the best quality versions of the episodes from various sources.
* Link to those videos in the articles. --[[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 03:20, 14 September 2016 (EDT)
:Nope. The wiki is ''not'' going to endorse piracy. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 03:28, 14 September 2016 (EDT)
::That would give Hasbro a nice, easy reason to shut the wiki down, which is not what we're after. When it's all out for purchase, it's not fair to them to put it up illegally. [[User:AkibaSilver|AkibaSilver]] ([[User talk:AkibaSilver|talk]]) 08:31, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:Christ no. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 15:25, 15 September 2016 (EDT)

== Animation/continuity errors ==

Hey, this is just a little thing - I'm not proposing anything, just mentioning this with a view to moving forward, but I really dislike how on episode pages we put errors first. I get why, it's a carryover from our G1 episode pages being some of the first things we ever did, and errors being perhaps the most famous, most catalogue-able thing about that series. But it's an out-of-place, and frankly I think demeaning, thing to have as the first entry for an average modern cartoon episode when there's plenty of other, more "relevant" information to provide ahead of mistakes. We don't do it for comics, and I don't like it on episodes either. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 14:06, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'd say go ahead and make a proposal to change it. You have my vote behind you. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 14:49, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'm beyond okay with this and absolutely in favor of making this a broad-scale change to existing pages. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 15:13, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:Yup, also very much behind this. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 15:21, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:If we're re-ordering anyway, does anyone else think it would be more informative to "continuity errors" always follow "continuity notes" for episodes that have both, even if it means "continuity errors" is no longer consecutive with "animation and technical errors"? [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 15:51, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
::I wouldn't be adverse to making the errors a subset of notes, really. I mean, a continuity error IS technically a note about continuity. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 16:05, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I'm not sure, with modern shows, that we even ''need'' separate sections for "continuity errors" and "animation errors." Again, with G1 - yes, we did, because there were so many. But such things are so rare now that a simple "Errors" section seems like all we need to everything effectively.
::::Ehn, I feel like keeping all the continuity bits together, be they complimentary or clashing, makes more sense than lumping the continuity-clashes with "someone forgot to texture that panel in that one shot". --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 16:15, 15 September 2016 (EDT)
::I agree. Although, personally, I don't see a reason to bundle it up under one "Errors" heading. As a reader, I would like them to be under relevant headings. --[[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 14:29, 18 September 2016 (EDT)

== Japanese UT character disambig tags ==

Would anyone object to me simplifying the tags "(Micron Densetsu)", "(Super Link)", and "(Galaxy Force)" for Japanese-original Unicron Trilogy characters with such tags down to just "(MD)", "(SL)", and "(GF)"? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 00:48, 20 September 2016 (EDT)
:Go for it! --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 01:09, 20 September 2016 (EDT)

== RID/G1 character merges ==

What with the steadily increasing numbers of RID 2001 characters imported into Generation 1 based continuities with basically no differences, I feel like we should probably just merge their G1 counterparts into the RID pages and be done with it, especially with the blurred lines of Car Robots involved; we're already doing so for Wind Sheer and Skyfire. This would (probably) mean merging the following pages:
* Bruticus (CR) into [[Bruticus (RID)]]
* [[Cryotek (Universe)]] into [[Cryotek (RID)]]
* Dark Scream (G1) into [[Dark Scream]]
* Emissary (BW) into [[Emissary (RID)]]
* Gigatron (G1) into [[Megatron (RID)]]
* [[Jhiaxus (RID)]] into [[Jhiaxus (G2)]]
* Side Burn (G1) into [[Side Burn (RID)]] (arguable)
* Sky-Byte (G2) into [[Sky-Byte (RID)]]
* Slapper (Universe) into [[Slapper (RID)]]
* And probably [[Predacon (RID)]] into [[Predacon (BW)]] as well; the latter kind of needs a more continuity-neutral reformat anyway.
I just feel like all these fairly arbitrary splits for guys who are intended to be ''pretty much'' the same characters, coupled with the explanatory blocks of text about Japanese G1 continuity, is making this more complicated than it needs to be. Thoughs? --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 11:54, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:Yup. About time too. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 12:04, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'm down. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 12:11, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:[[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive60#Probably an unpopular thought, but...|Always been for it.]] I'm not sure if I'm on board with Hasbro-original characters like Jhiaxus and Cryotek, but I'll accept them if it means the CR guys get merged. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 12:21, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:Oppose. RID is not only a separate continuity, but also a separate multiversal stream. To start merging these characters just because they're broadly similar doesn't really make sense. After all, ''Animated'' [[Ransack (Animated)|Ransack]] and [[Crumplezone (Animated)|Crumplezone]] are practically identical in personality and design to their ''Cybertron'' counterparts, but we acknowledge them as separate distinct entities. And characters imported into G1 like Sky-Byte have shown up in three different continuities. Would this also mean ''Universe'' [[Ratchet (Universe)|Ratchet]] gets folded in with G1 [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]]? Plus, this could lead to confusion by someone wondering "Why isn't all the info about Fire Truck Optimus with Old Optimus?" I think by this point we're long past merging RID and G1 in any form other than the brief "in Japan, this cartoon is G1 because dumb reasons." --[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 12:47, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::The difference between G1 and RID is inherently different to the difference between G1 and Animated because of Car Robots. People wouldn't wonder why RID Optimus wasn't with G1 Optimus because they have distinct designs and personalities, and have existed in the same continuity. We already have different incarnations of the same character from separate continuity families sharing pages, so it's not like this is going to start a slippery slope. (And no, Universe and G1 Ratchet would not be merged, for the same reason that RID and G1 Prowl would not be merged.) --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 13:02, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:::The only slippery slope involved here is the one we're already sliding down that involves more and more RID characters appearing in G1 stories that makes this a more plausible action to take. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:06, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:::Except this wiki has always used the American-based fiction as it's primary source, where RID is separate from everything. And even Car Robots being G1 is the result of a freaking RETCON. I'd even argue that any characters who do have multiple continuities on their page be split (though the only examples that come to mind are former Multiversal Singularities like Unicron or Vector Prime, which were only created that way ''because'' they were multiversal singularities.)

:::Also, If I end up getting out voted on this, I'd at least like to argue against merging Side Burn, Jhiaxus, and GIgatron/Megatron. Because G1 Side Burn does differ from RID in a few notable ways (most notably NOT being brother to a guy named Prowl), Jhiaxus is more of a repurposing, and not only is there already a Megatron in the IDW comics, there's a Gigatron in the Animated universe that is also based on RID Megs. And if we're merging BW Bruticus into RID Bruticus, we'd also have to merge TF 2010 Backstop, Underbite, and Wreckloose in with their Cybertron counterparts. All in all, this seems like it's becoming more of a headache than just keeping them separate.--[[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 14:41, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::::This is kind of a weird string of complaints that don't really logically bear on anything. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:17, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:I'd be fine with this. Certainly seems preferable to weird crap like Sky-Byte having Japanese G1 fiction on one article and Hasbro G1 fiction on another. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]])
:I agree with the general idea and most of the examples, but I'd say Jhiaxus isn't really the same situation as the rest. I'm not sure about the factions either. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 14:45, 21 September 2016 (EDT)

Some other stuff that could stand to be merged:
*Hound (RID) into [[Hound (G1)]]
*Sky Lynx (RID) into [[Sky Lynx (G1)]]
*Teletraan I (RID) into Teletraan I (G1)
Mmmmmmaybe [[Alpha Trion (RID)]]? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 13:38, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:Three "CHRIST YES"es, and a "hmnnn." - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:41, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:For what it's worth, [[Ultra Trion]]'s "Trion" bits do sure look like they came off of G1 A3... --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:15, 21 September 2016 (EDT)

How do we feel about the likes of [[Ransack (IDW)|Ransack]]? Could he stand to be merged into his ''Cybertron'' page? --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee|talk]]) 15:22, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:Eh, hang on I think I'm caught up now. Without ''Car Robots'' there's no link to G1 so he's a separate character unlike the RID guys. Is that right? --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee|talk]]) 15:27, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::Yeah, that's a separate discussion (and a merge I'd disagree with, but let's focus on the RID guys for now). [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:35, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I agree that they should be merged except Jhiaxus.--[[User:Primestar3|Primestar3]] ([[User talk:Primestar3|talk]]) 15:38, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
:I think I'd be against merging anyone from different continuity families other than between G1/BW and RiD. [[User:NovaSaber|NovaSaber]] ([[User talk:NovaSaber|talk]]) 15:55, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::That seems to be a reasonable rule of thumb. --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee|talk]]) 16:09, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
::To be honest, I'd be kind of inclined to merge the BWU Micromaster/Mini-Con repurposings as well, just because both iterations of the characters are so insignificant, and AVP seemed to make a point of having a lot of Mini-Cons exist across continuity families... but that's a separate argument and one with no real solid logic behind it. In this particular instance, yes, leave it as G1 and RID. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 16:16, 21 September 2016 (EDT)
I'm not sure exactly what position to take, but I would say that Hasbro-original characters are somewhat different from the guys who share a CR/RiD cartoon narrative. Thus, I think RiD Alpha Trion should be looked at the same way as RiD Optimus Prime and RiD Ultra Magnus. And to add to the list of pages up for consideration:
*Plasma into [[Cerebros (RID)]]
Also, I note that the one-off text mention of IDW G1 Side Burn. Anyone know if that iteration is tied to RiD 2001 Side Burn or is an independent conception? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 16:32, 21 September 2016 (EDT)

So should we merge Cryotek and Jhiaxus? I opposed it back when because there was no real reason to while we had the others split, but now I think that it's a close enough situation that they should be merged, even if they don't have Car Robots equivalents; it's still "RID guy is used in a G1 universe". (Plus, Bruticus only has a "Car Robots" counterpart because of AVP fiction, so merging him solely on that basis while leaving the other Hasbro-originals separate feels overly nitpicky.) --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 09:02, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
:I feel like Jhiaxus is more "RID Optimus Prime and G1 Optimus Prime"—he would have had his article all along if it wasn't for 3H saying it was the original Jhiaxus. I admit I don't have an argument for Cryotek. Just preference. If you want to merge them, *shrug* [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 09:16, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
::I think they should remain separate. RiD Cryotek and Jhiaxus had independent Viron existences in the first place due to their toys, and I think their personalities are distinct. That their toys were repurposed is like ''Prime'' Ratchet's design getting repurposed in G1 for that X-Files Hearts of Steel story. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 10:33, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
:::I think, at least in the case of Jhiaxus, "distinct personality" doesn't matter that much, because he's never been consistent. Really, I just think it's neater to have them together if the other RID characters are, especially since they both predate recent official repurposing trends; 3H's thinking was probably "Cryotek is Cryotek"/"Jhiaxus is Jhiaxus". --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 10:39, 22 September 2016 (EDT)

Wait, better argument: we're already keeping the Hasbro-original, toyline-only characters Skyfire and Wind Sheer merged across continuity families, and it'd be patently silly to split them out. I don't want to argue for consistency above all things, but in this matter, I think it'd be a good idea. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 12:42, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
:Okay, I do not necessarily agree, but I can see a case to be made that similarly to Wind Sheer and Skyfire, Cryotek is a Hasbro RiD-original guy who was extended into G1. But that does not apply to Jhiaxus. G2 Jhiaxus existed by himself for a decade before the independent RiD toy came along. RiD Jhiaxus by our policies and by logic should remain an independent page. Otherwise, we should merge ''Prime'' Ratchet into G1 Ratchet's page. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 04:20, 23 September 2016 (EDT)
::Really? Because his page only got built when I mentioned his name in Ask Vector Prime as a continuity patch as far as I know. That hardly seems like a cut-and-dried case. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 07:41, 23 September 2016 (EDT)
:::Yeah, I think that the fact that for a decade and a half the ''only'' use of RID Jhiaxus was as the G2 character makes it more fair to fudge categorization for the sake of consistency. Plus, as I said, G2 Jhiaxus is already both "tyrannical leader" and "sycophantic scientist"; is "dedicated, loyal lieutenant" that much of a step away? (Hell, you could even look at it as a halfway point between the two...)

:I disagree. One of the things I like about this wiki, is the fact that every continuity get's its own share of articles. And RID and G1 are not even part of the same continuity family. I don't see why it's even being considered and agreed to. Also, they weren't just different families, but RID is a japanese cartoon.
You say that there are virtually no differences, so I assume that they look identical to their G1 counterparts, but what about the story? Take hound for example. I haven't watched the cartoon so I don't know, but if he didn't get a redesign, does that mean that he wasn't relevant to the story either? If that is the case, then I guess it won't kill to merge. --[[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 09:44, 24 September 2016 (EDT)

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2016-09-18T18:29:15Z

Furhun: /* Animation/continuity errors */

Randall Ng

2016-09-17T13:44:26Z

Furhun: /* External links */

'''Randall Ng''' is a professional 3d animator who has worked on video games (including Justice League Heroes and HALO 4). He is best known in the fandom for directing, modeling, and animating promotional videos for [[BotCon]] and [[Fun Publications]], which featured voiceover work by [[DR.SMOOV]].

* "[[BotCon 2009: Join the Elite Guard!]]"
* "[[BotCon 2009!]]"
* "[[BotCon 2010 - Generation 2: Redux]]"
* "[[BotCon 2010 Promo]]"
* "[[Mega Spice -- The Transformer Your Fan Could Be Like]]"
* "[[Who is the Greatest Starscream Of All Time?]]"
* "[[BotCon 2012: Figure Reveal!]]"
* "[[Blaster VS Soundwave 2013]]"

In addition, his fan video collaboration with DR.SMOOV, [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msJxEhOXieE TRANSFORMERS: Generation One], won first place at the BotCon 2009 film festival and was also included as a bonus feature on the [[Shout! Factory]] Complete DVD Series release of ''[[The Transformers (cartoon)|The Transformers]]'' cartoon. In 2011, Randall collaborated with musician Stan Bush to create a music video featuring Transformers ("Your Time") and again in 2014 ("Thunder in Your Heart").

==External links==
*http://www.randallng.com
*http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1432943/
*https://www.youtube.com/user/ngsmoov

{{DEFAULTSORT:Ng, Randall}}

[[Category:Fun Publications]]
[[Category:Directors]]
[[Category:Illustrators]]
[[Category:Writers]]

DR.SMOOV

2016-09-17T13:43:44Z

Furhun: Added link to YT channel.

'''DR. SMOOV''' is a Transformers [[fandom|fan]] and media professional, known in the fandom for his satirical dubs of classic ''Transformers'' cartoons. He has also provided voiceover work for G4TV and College Humor.

In addition to having made promotional videos for [[BotCon 2009]], his fan video collaboration with [[Randall Ng]], [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9RXW5gtydI TRANSFORMERS Generation One], won first place at the BotCon 2009 film festival and was subsequently included as a bonus feature on the Shout!Factory Complete DVD Series release of the [[The Transformers (cartoon)|Transformers]] cartoon.

=="[[BotCon 2009: Join the Elite Guard!]]"==
* [[Kup (G1)|Kup]]

=="[[BotCon 2009!]]"==
* [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]
* [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]]
* [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]]

=="[[BotCon 2010 - Generation 2: Redux]]"==
* Narration

=="[[BotCon 2010 Promo]]"==
* Megatron
* Starscream
* [[Breakdown (G1)|Breakdown]]
* [[Punch (G1)|Punch/Counterpunch]]
* Optimus Prime
* [[Teletraan I (G1)|Teletraan I]]

=="[[Mega Spice -- The Transformer Your Fan Could Be Like]]"==
* Megatron

=="[[Who is the Greatest Starscream Of All Time?]]"==
* Megatron
* [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]]
* Starscream
* [[Starscream (Animated)|''Animated'' Starscream]]

=="[[BotCon 2012: Figure Reveal!]]"==
* Starscream

==External links==
* http://www.drsmoov.com
* http://www.ngsmoov.com
* https://www.youtube.com/user/ngsmoov

{{DEFAULTSORT:Drsmoov}}
[[category:English voice actors]]
[[category:Fun Publications]]

Talk:Bee in the City

2016-09-14T09:46:36Z

Furhun: /* Is this just a scipt? */

Right, this page been created. Somebody ought to fill it in, seeing as how I wasn't there, maybe with the cast? [[User:Metal Gear NOIZE|Metal Gear NOIZE]] 19:39, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
:You really need to create a page more fully, otherwise it'll get marked for deletion, as it is now. NO article is preferable to a very poor one. I've filled in the rest of the cast and what I can remember of the plot, but you should've waited until you had more info or for someone who WAS there (preferably one of the writers) to start the article.
:I'm leaving the pending deletion up for now, in case I still haven't brought the article up to snuff despite adding all I could remember. If someone else feels it doesn't merit that any more, great, but I don't feel qualified to judge this one.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 23:39, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

It's up on YouTube; I'm loathe to edit the wikipage on something I wrote. I will correct some non-synopsis things, tho.
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4rUveSq7vg Part 1
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRLwZZV1YJ4 Part 2
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sww0sue3xTs Part 3
<br>--[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 02:26, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

== Script reading category? ==

I'm just curious, would it be a good idea to create a "Script reading" category for all these Botcon/OTFCC script readings? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 06:16, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
:I'd like to see it, as a way to tie them all together. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 06:19, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

==Quotes==
Uh, yeah. I think it's way too easy to overdo quotes on this, seeing as the script is at its core a procession of verbal gags. I think we can lay off them... but ones that are specific references, like the "hard hat" one, should get explanations. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 22:53, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

== Is this just a scipt? ==

I know it was read by the voice actors at the botcon 2008, but is that it? Was it never made into an episode? Is that the case with all the ''script-reading'' scripts? --[[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 05:46, 14 September 2016 (EDT)

Talk:Bee in the City

2016-09-14T09:46:20Z

Furhun: /* Is this just a scipt? */ new section

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2016-09-14T07:20:40Z

Furhun: /* Add links to uploaded videos of episodes in the articles for episodes? */ new section

One Shall Fall

2016-09-14T07:13:55Z

Furhun: /* Notes */

{{disambig2|an episode of ''[[Transformers: Prime (cartoon)|Transformers: Prime]]''|the week-long event in the [[Transformers Legends (mobile game)|''Transformers legends'' mobile game]]|One Shall Fall...}}
{{episode|
|otherseries=''[[Transformers: Prime (cartoon)|Transformers: Prime]]'' ep 23
|prev=Stronger, Faster
|next=One Shall Rise, Part 1
|image=OneShallFall-visionfulfilled.jpg
|caption=''Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make men slay each other. To him was given a large sword!''
|title="One Shall Fall"
|airdate=[[August 21]], [[2011]]
|written by=[[Joseph Kuhr]] and [[Duane Capizzi]]
|directed by=[[Vinton Heuck]]
|animation studio=[[Polygon Pictures]]
|production company=[[Hasbro Studios]]
}}

'''A prophecy predicts dark times ahead, which Megatron intends to see through.'''

==Synopsis==
[[File:OneShallFall-MegatronKnockOut.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.67|Miiiight not be the best time to examine your manicure, Knock Out.]]

[[Optimus Prime (WFC)|Optimus Prime]] recites a passage from the [[Covenant of Primus]], foretelling that a perpetual conflict will culminate when the forty-seven spheres align. Despite the other [[Autobot]]s' lack of faith, [[Ratchet (WFC)|Ratchet]] realizes that the "world forged of chaos" referred to in the prophecy is [[Earth]]—and that the alignment will occur in a matter of days.

Aboard the ''[[Trypticon (WFC)|Nemesis]]'', [[Megatron (WFC)|Megatron]] explains to [[Knock Out (Prime)|Knock Out]] that he sought the [[Dark Energon|blood]] of [[Unicron]] so that he could conquer worlds with [[Terrorcon (Prime)|undead armies]]. Knock Out assures him that more Dark Energon awaits amongst the stars, but advises him not to push himself, since he was in stasis. Megatron then claims that he is the "rising darkness" of which the prophecy speaks.

[[Jack Darby|Jack]], [[Raf Esquivel|Raf]], and [[Miko Nakadai|Miko]] find a picture of [[Bumblebee (WFC)|Bumblebee]] while searching a conspiracy website. Raf replaces the image with a dancing cat, which makes Ratchet laugh. Jack then invites Optimus to take a look, but is flatly denied. Ratchet then states that, before he became a [[Prime (rank)|Prime]], Optimus behaved quite similarly to Jack. [[William Fowler|Agent Fowler]] suddenly interrupts and reveals that the [[Decepticon]]s have been stealing components to build a second [[space bridge]]. Back aboard the ''Nemesis'', Knock Out and [[Soundwave (WFC)|Soundwave]] inform Megatron that the only item left on the list is an ample power source, which can be found in a heavily fortified human base. [[Airachnid (Prime)|Airachnid]] could simply tunnel in, but Megatron rather angrily declares that the time for stealth is over, and he sends a massive squad of [[Vehicon (Prime)|Vehicons]] to retrieve it. Optimus warns Fowler to have his troops evacuate, for fear of human casualties.

[[File:PrimeEp23-BumblebeeRaf.jpg|right|thumb|upright=1.67|Where is your BS&P now???]]

Optimus, [[Bulkhead (Prime)|Bulkhead]], and [[Arcee (WFC)|Arcee]] arrive to fend off the Vehicons, and all goes well until Megatron himself heads out toward the battlefield. En route, he spots Bumblebee, who was taking Raf racing. Megatron opens fire, frying Bumblebee's systems and knocking Raf out cold. Megatron arrives at the base just as the Autobots disable the last of his drones, and he taunts Optimus as Bumblebee arrives whilst carrying a wounded Raf. Bulkhead restrains the enraged scout before Optimus orders Arcee to take him and Raf back to base. Megatron then ascends onto the ''Nemesis'' with the power source. Unbeknownst to Megatron, Optimus and Bulkhead climb aboard the ''Nemesis''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s hull.

Back at [[Autobot Outpost Omega One]], Ratchet panics that his tools are wrong for human examination, and Jack suggests that they call in [[June Darby|his mother]]. Meanwhile, Megatron has another vision in which he sees a [[Unicron|sinister face]] and a volcano. He then orders Knock Out and Airachnid to complete the space bridge, as there is something he must attend to. June arrives at the Autobot base and quickly unnerves Ratchet with the knowledge that Raf will die unless she can stabilize him immediately. Bumblebee vents his frustration on a nearby wall, but Arcee manages to calm him...a little. Ratchet regrets having not bothered to learn human science and medicine, despite accepting the children into their lives. He then states that he has grown to need Rafael, just as Raf needs him.

Bulkhead and Optimus storm the ''Nemesis'', and Optimus claims to have had a change of heart: He orders Bulkhead back to base with the power source, declaring that there is something he must do. He then muses grimly that he has realized that Autobots and Decepticons will never co-exist peacefully, and he vows to destroy Megatron.

As the planetary alignment nears, Megatron arrives at the volcano site, and Optimus uses a Vehicon comm link to challenge him. Optimus soon joins him at the base of the volcano, and the two exchange brief banter before engaging each other in fierce battle.

[[File:PrimeEp23-PrimeMegatron.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.67|"Why throw away your life so recklessly?" <br> "I keep [[The many deaths of Optimus Prime|''trying'']] to, but Hasbro won't [[To sell toys|let me]] anymore!"]]

Meanwhile, Ratchet realizes that Raf has been infected with [[Dark Energon]] and theorizes that exposure to normal energon should cure him. He takes a sample from Bumblebee, placing Raf in a sealed chamber to test his theory as the others watch helplessly. Rafael soon opens his eyes, his pulse stabilizing.

Optimus appears to defeat Megatron and prepares to deal the final blow, but the Decepticon leader catches his sword with unusual strength as the volcano begins to erupt. Strange purple markings glow to life across his body, and he quickly overpowers Optimus. He realizes that the volcano is spewing forth Dark Energon, and he moves to kill Optimus, as he saw himself doing in a previous vision.

To be continued...
{{--}}

==Featured characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
*[[Optimus Prime (WFC)|Optimus Prime]] (1)
*[[Arcee (WFC)|Arcee]] (2)
*[[Bulkhead (Prime)|Bulkhead]] (3)
*[[Ratchet (WFC)|Ratchet]] (4)
*[[Bumblebee (WFC)|Bumblebee]] (14)
|c2=
*[[Megatron (WFC)|Megatron]] (5)
*[[Knock Out (Prime)|Knock Out]] (6)
*[[Vehicon (Prime)|Vehicon]]s (13)
*[[Soundwave (WFC)|Soundwave]] (11)
*[[Airachnid (Prime)|Airachnid]] (12)
|c3=
*[[Miko Nakadai]] (7)
*[[Raf Esquivel]] (8)
*[[Jack Darby]] (9)
*[[William Fowler]] (10)
*[[June Darby]] (16)
|c4=
*[[Unicron]] (15)
}}

==Quotes==

"And it was written in the Covenant of Primus that 'when the 47 spheres align, a perpetual conflict will culminate upon a world forged from chaos. And the weak shall perish in the shadow of a rising darkness.'"
:—'''Optimus Prime''' recites a passage of ill tidings.

"Mars Cat says, 'Take me to your feeder!'"
:—'''Miko''' starts a new internet meme

"Um, Optimus! You wanna see something funny?"<br>
"No."
:—'''Jack''' learns of '''Optimus Prime'''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s minimal sense of humor.

"Does he seem to be...'losing it'?"<br>
"A bit..."
:—'''Knock Out''' and '''Airachnid''' discuss Megatron's state of mind.

"I have been foolish not to see what history has proven over and over again...that Autobots and Decepticons will never mend their ways. If there can be no diplomatic solution to this perpetual conflict, then I must not allow more darkness to fall upon this or any planet. Megatron must be destroyed!"
:—It's about slaggin' time, '''Optimus Prime'''.

"Your defeat was foreseen here by the ancients. What was it they wrote? 'The weak shall perish'?"<br>
"Do not believe everything you read."
:—'''Megatron''' and '''Optimus Prime''', unusually philosophical in the middle of a death match.

==Notes==
*This is one of the few episodes storyboarded by the artist [[Adam_Van_Wyk|Adam Van Wyk]].

===Animation and technical errors===
*When the flying Vehicons arrive to help retrieve the power source from the military base, the Vehicon ground units which stole it in the first place vanish.
*When Megatron arrives at the volcano, the points of his helmet disappear through his neck armor.
*As Megatron extends his blade when Optimus leaps at him, the sound effect is that of his cannon firing.
*When Optimus tries to strike the finishing blow, he's standing on Megatron's chest. Once Megatron catches the blade, Optimus is standing much further back.

===Continuity errors===
*Megatron's jet mode cannons score a direct hit on Bumblebee, yet do no apparent damage other than briefly stopping him. When Arcee was hit in "[[Darkness Rising, Part 5]]", it nearly killed her. On a similar note, Bumblebee should have taken the brunt of the Dark Energon exposure, but only Raf shows any symptoms. Remember that Arcee was weakened by exposure to a few drops from [[Cliffjumper (WFC)|Cliffjumper]]'s animated corpse in "[[Darkness Rising, Part 2]]".
**However, Optimus tells Arcee to look after Raf AND Bumblebee; it's likely that Bee's just being strong for his partner's sake. Bumblebee also handled a shard of Dark Energon during "[[Out of His Head]]" without any ill effects, so maybe he's just resistant to the stuff.
*Bumblebee knows Raf is injured, so why does he drive nearly two miles (three klicks) to the battlefield instead of just calling for a [[GroundBridge]] immediately?
*Raf says he can't see without his glasses in "[[Shadowzone (episode)|Shadowzone]]", but his first person shot is perfectly clear. This is a common thing for TV and movies, but still...

===Continuity notes===
*Megatron refers to his feeling by saying "it's as if" he can hear Unicron's thoughts, which he gibbered about back in "[[Darkness Rising, Part 3]]".
*The story revolves around the idea that Dark Energon is out in space, another "Darkness Rising" plot point. Turns out that it's not as far out as the characters think...
*Agent Fowler's men at first thought it was [[MECH]] who stole the phase conductor until they found the security image of Soundwave.
*[[Starscream (WFC)|Starscream]] demonstrated that energon does not agree with human physiology in "[[Darkness Rising, Part 3]]" and "[[Darkness Rising, Part 4|Part 4]]", which Ratchet confirms here. Apparently, Dark Energon has similar effects, but the two types cancel each other out (at least in a human).
*Arcee tells Bumblebee that she knows what it's like to see a partner <s>killed</s> harmed, referring to [[Tailgate (Prime)|Tailgate]]'s death at Airachnid's claws in "[[Predatory]]". Her general speech seems to call back to the lesson she learned at the end of "[[Partners]]". Ironically, Bumblebee was the one who prevented Arcee from giving into her desire for vengeance in that episode.
*Ratchet extracts energon from Bumblebee with the same device that he used to inject himself with synthetic energon in [[Stronger, Faster|the previous episode]].

===Transformers references===
[[File:Tfprime23 unicron.jpg|right|thumb|Hey look, it's Unicron! Wait, why does he have Cyclonus's helmet horns?]]
*The [[Covenant of Primus]] first appeared in the ''[[Beast Wars: Transformers (cartoon)|Beast Wars]]'' episode "[[Nemesis Part 1]]".
*Megatron and Optimus punch each other in the style of the opening credits, only on opposite sides. This isn't [[Sick Mind|the first time]] the show has done this.
*Yeah, yeah, "[[The Transformers: The Movie|One shall stand, one shall fall]]." This is the third time in this series alone, following "[[Darkness Rising, Part 5]]" and "[[Sick Mind]]", and that's not even including the title of THIS episode. Megatron even completes the saying for Optimus, he's heard it plenty of times by now.
*Ratchet mentions that he has known Optimus for longer than any of the other Earth-stationed Autobots, even before he was a Prime. Taking the character's appearance in ''[[Transformers: War for Cybertron (360/PS3/PC)|War for Cybertron]]'' into account, this would be true, as Ratchet was under the direct command of Optimus prior to, and at the start of the game's storyline.
**In comparison, the first cutscene of the Autobot campaign showed Bumblebee's first meeting with Optimus, and whilst Arcee was in the game, she never personally interacted with Optimus during the story. Bulkhead was mentioned as having joined Optimus during a later period of time.
*Megatron refers to Optimus as "the last of the Primes". He was also called this by the head of the [[Autobot High Council|High Council]] in ''War for Cybertron'', upon his ascension to the rank of Prime. It is also a term used to refer to his [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|live-action film]] counterpart.
*Megatron breaks Prime's sword in the same way as in "[[Darkness Rising, Part 5]]."

===Real-world references===
*The picture on the conspiracy website of a supposed alien looking through a window is a reference to the famed "Denver Alien" sighting where a man called Jeff Peckman claimed he filmed an extraterrestrial outside of his home.

===Trivia===
*The episode was first broadcast on Canada's Teletoon channel. It later first aired in the United States on [[September 24]], [[2011]].
*At the beginning of the episode, as Megatron explains why he sought out the blood of Unicron, Knock Out totally checks out his "nails" in the background. How vain can you get?
*Megatron laments that the only shard of Dark Energon he has is the one in his chest. It would seem that, despite his machinations being discovered, Starscream never gave Megatron's original shard back.
*Bulkhead states that he has never seen Optimus "laugh, cry or lose his cool". While it could just be an offhand expression, this inadvertently raises an interesting question as to whether Cybertronians actually have the ability to cry...[[Humanization#Crying|hmmmmmmmm]].
*Ratchet tells the kids that the title of Prime can only be earned, not inherited or born into. This is the inverse of what [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|a different Optimus]] told [[Megatron (Movie)|his archenemy]] in [[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (franchise)|a different universe]].
*This is the first time in the series an Autobot weaponizes a part of their [[alternate mode|vehicle mode]]—in this case, Optimus's wheels on his legs.
*Ratchet actually ''laughs'' in this episode, and at a cartoon space cat, of all things!
*When Jack dials his mother, it is evident he has her on speed dial from the sound of him pushing one button on his mobile phone and the phone dialing itself.

===Foreign localization===
'''Brazilian'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Um Deverá se Render''''" ("One Shall Surrender")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[April 9|9 April]] [[2012]]

'''German'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Die Prophezeiung'''" ("The Prophecy")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[February 24|24 February]] [[2012]]

'''Hungarian'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Egyikünk elbukik'''" ("One of Us Falls")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[February 8|8 February]] [[2012]]

'''Indonesian'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Satu Harus Jatuh'''" ("One Shall Fall")
:*''Original airdate:'' 1 October [[2012]]

'''Italian'''
:*''Title:'' "'''L'antica profezia!'''" ("The Ancient Prophecy!")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[December 11|11 December]] [[2011]]

'''Japanese'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Ichigeki Henkei! Optimus Prime VS Megatron'''" (一撃変形!オプティマスプライムVSメガトロン, "One-Shot Transformation! Optimus Prime VS Megatron")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[September 8|8 September]] [[2012]]

'''Korean'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Godae ui Yeeon'''" (고대의 예언, "The Ancient Prophecy")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[November 14|14 November]] [[2011]]

'''Polish'''
:*''Title:'' ?
:*''Original airdate:'' [[January 4|4 January]] [[2012]]

'''Spanish (Spain)'''
:*''Title:'' "Uno caerá'''" ("One Shall Fall")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[July 21|21 July]] [[2012]]

[[Category:Prime episodes]]

Talk:Adam Van Wyk

2016-09-14T07:13:03Z

Furhun:

Did he or did he ''not'' storyboard [[One_Shall_Fall|One Shall Fall]].

I know that this article suggests that he did, but according to IMDB, he has only contributed to two episodes. However, my not-living under a rock, and years of experience at using the internet, has taught me that IMDB can be fairly wrong and can definitely be short on info.

I looked him up and checked out his blog and his site. The site showed just one result ''(obviously not relevant)'' when I searched for ''"Transformers"'', while the blog was created in 2013 which was roughly 2 years after the episode was aired, and while I could still go through the archives, it seems that the man himself personally cares little for his contributions to ''Transformers: Prime''. {{unsigned|Furhun}}
:He is listed in the end credits for "One Shall Fall" under storyboard artists. I guess it's possible the credits are wrong! --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 15:11, 13 September 2016 (EDT)
::Of course! It's funny how I didn't think of checking the credits. Thank you! --[[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 03:13, 14 September 2016 (EDT)

Help talk:Contents

2016-09-14T07:12:02Z

Furhun:

==Restructuring==
[[User:Jeysie/Help:_Contents]]<br/>
Originally did this right before the crash (luckily the Google cache saved it after all...)<br/>
Basically I attempted to re-word some parts of it to be terser and a little less... confrontational, and I also attempted to make sure every help page was included on it (some pages are missing on the current version) and in a more coherent structure. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 11:53, 5 June 2009 (EDT)
:Bumping in the hopes of comments, since I think we at least need to make the currently missing help links more easily findable, especially the example articles. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:11, 12 July 2009 (EDT)

== Am I seriously the only one who feels that we need like a forum page or something? ==

Or am I the only idiot who can't find one.
Sorry, first things first! Yes I'm new, and this is the first time I've ever signed up on a MediaWIki ''wiki''.

I've been a big fan of this particular one for quite a while and being the only transformers fan I know, I decided to sign up here and meet the community.

So is there like a page for discussions or something only visible to members? Cause I can't find one.
I would like to express my beliefs about MediaWiki being really ugly and I must ask you, do you not have access to the CSS or something? Just make it prettier!

P.S. Transformers.wikia ''was'' managed by the same people? {{Unsigned|Furhun|08:12, 13 September 2016}}

:First: Sign your comments with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>.
:Second: sounds like you want the [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal|Community Portal]].
:Third: I think you're probably the first person ever to complain about the wiki's appearance, and I'm curious as to what you actually think is wrong with it.
:Fourth: Yes, it was, but now the wikia isn't managed by... anyone, really. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 08:31, 13 September 2016 (EDT)

::Oh, I did check out the community portal. Just confused about how things are done... as you can see, I don't even know how to sign an comment.. Well, the only thing wrong with the appearance is the same as whatever's wrong with all mediawiki wikis. One could argue that we could make it more readible. [[User:Furhun|Furhun]] ([[User talk:Furhun|talk]]) 03:12, 14 September 2016 (EDT)

The Killing Jar (episode)

2016-09-13T14:57:38Z

Furhun: /* Animation or technical glitches */

{{disambig2|the [[The Transformers (cartoon)|Generation 1 episode]]|the [[The Transformers: Punishment|Punishment]] issue|The Killing Jar (issue)}}
{{episode
|series=G1toon
|ep=71
|series2=2010
|ep2=10
|prev2=Forever Is a Long Time Coming (episode)
|next2=Chaos (episode)
|title="The Killing Jar"
|image=Captured KillingJar.jpg
|caption=When I hear that whistle blowin', I hang my head and cry.
|airdate=[[September 29]], 1986
|written by=[[Michael Charles Hill]]<br>[[Joey Kurihara Piedra]]
|production code=700-91
|production company=[[Sunbow Productions]]
|animation studio=[[Toei]]
|continuity=[[Generation 1 cartoon continuity]]
}}

'''Ultra Magnus, Cyclonus, Marissa Faireborn, and Wreck-Gar are captured by a Quintesson scientist for experiments, but are sucked into a more dangerous problem—a black hole.'''

==Synopsis==
[[File:Killing Jar Fakegalvatron.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|[[jaAm]]?]]

As [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ultra Magnus]] stargazes, he's being spied on by a [[Quintesson]] scientist and his [[Allicon]] guard. Disguising their ship as [[Sky Lynx (G1)|Sky Lynx]], the pair lure Magnus on board where he's attacked by a fake [[Hot Rod/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Rodimus Prime]]. The scientist correctly predicts Magnus's actions as the [[Autobot]] attempts to restrain his leader without harming him. With Magnus safely imprisoned, the scientist sets course for [[Chaar]]. Once there, the ship is again disguised, this time as [[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]], and [[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]] lured on board. Again, the scientist predicts that Cyclonus will behave in a similar manner to Magnus when confronted with a hostile illusion of his leader. On [[Junkion (planet)|Junkion]], [[Wreck-Gar (G1)|Wreck-Gar]] is enjoying [[Lippo the Clown]]'s TV show when the clown himself turns up in a spacecraft and lures Wreck-Gar on board. Naturally it is soon revealed to be the Quintesson ship. The scientist predicts that placing a [[Junkion (species)|Junkion]] in a clean, uncluttered room will cause him to go catatonic. Instead Wreck-Gar proceeds to tear up the walls to make the chamber more like "home sweet home".

Disguised as a shuttle, the Quintesson ship docks with an [[Earth Defense Command|EDC]] space station, and [[Marissa Faireborn]] is lured on board by an illusion of her father. Once the ship leaves the space station, Marissa is shocked when her father's face changes into the Quintesson "death" face. She strikes the illusion to the ground and it disappears — the Quintesson scientist observes that violence is always the human way. Finally the bars on Marissa's cell appear and all four captives are able to communicate.

[[File:Killing Jar Allicon storm.jpg|right|upright=1.1|thumb]]

The scientist visits the cell area, instructing his guard to activate a [[submission field]], pinning Marissa to the floor. As the pair move in, Wreck-Gar fires his fist, deactivating the field and allowing Marissa to attack the Quintesson and attempt to free Ultra Magnus. Before she can free him, the room begins crackling with electrical energy — the ship has flown into an [[electron storm]].

As the captives are assaulted by the energy, the Quintesson and his guard head for the control room and attempt to steer the ship through the storm. After a wrong move, the guard manages to guide the ship out of the storm. In the cell area, Magnus grabs hold of the electron bars, short-circuiting the bars on all four cells and freeing everyone. When the scientist and guard return to the cell area, they're jumped by Marissa and Wreck-Gar while Magnus and Cyclonus fight over what they're going to do with the ship. Marissa gets the better of the Quintesson and begins to plot a course back to Earth, but discovers that the ship has fallen into the gravity field of a [[black hole]].

[[File:Killing Jar Black hole viewer.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|In, through, ... AND BEYOND!]]

She interrupts the fighting to let everyone know they've got bigger problems, but while the Allicon guard activates a distress signal, the Quintesson slips away to the rear of the ship where the escape pods are located. The others follow him, only to find that most of the pods have been rendered useless by the electron storm and only one remains operational. Magnus yanks the scientist from the escape pod, but the launch sequence has already started. Though Cyclonus intends to use it himself, Wreck-Gar tackles him so that Magnus can help Marissa into the pod. While they're fighting, the pod launches with no one aboard and Magnus is pulled out as the whole room begins to depressurise.

To Magnus's surprise, Cyclonus saves him with a tractor beam. The scientist explodes angrily at them for allowing the escape pod to launch unmanned but during the ensuing discussion, they begin to receive a transmission and spy a ship coming up behind them. Although they believe rescue is imminent, it turns out merely to be a derelict ship, which is dragged into the black hole ahead of them. Finally the Quintesson ship's engines overload, and the ship follows the derelict into the black hole...

[[File:Newcolors KillingJar.jpg|right|upright=1.1|thumb|Get on it, e-Hobby.]]

...only to emerge into a [[negative universe]] where the color spectrum is drastically altered. While the Quintesson works on a plan to return them to their own universe, the others set about repairing the overloaded engines. Once repairs are complete, the Quintesson slingshots the ship through the white hole, re-emerging from the black hole into the middle of a battle. Magnus radios for help from Sky Lynx, who docks with the ship. The group goes their separate ways, Ultra Magnus, Wreck-Gar and Marissa returning to [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] in Sky Lynx.
{{-}}

==Featured characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
*[[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ultra Magnus]] (1)
*[[Wreck-Gar (G1)|Wreck-Gar]] (8)
*[[Sky Lynx (G1)|Sky Lynx]] (12)

|c2=
*[[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]] (5)
*[[Astrotrain (G1)|Astrotrain]] (13)

|c3=
*[[Marissa Faireborn]] (10)

|c4=
*[[Quintesson]] Scientist (2)
*[[Quintesson]] Guard (3)
*Fake [[Sky Lynx (G1)|Sky Lynx]] (3)
*Fake [[Hot Rod/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Rodimus Prime]] (4)
*Fake [[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]] (6)
*Fake [[Galvatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Galvatron]] (7)
*Fake [[Lippo the Clown]] (9)
*Fake [[Flint (G.I. Joe)|Flint]] (11)
}}

==Quotes==
"Ultra Magnus is a soldier first and foremost."<br>
"This Decepticon and the Autobot are two of a kind. One is good and one is evil, but to me that is no difference at all."<br>
"As an Autobot, this Junkion should have reacted as I predicted. Remarkable."<br>
"Humans are disgusting creatures, but worthy of study, if just to find a better way of destroying them."<br>
"Violence is always the humans' way of solving problems."<br>
:—Various observations made by the '''Quintesson scientist''' after capturing his test subjects.

"Galvatron! Why would you attack me, your most loyal soldier?"
:—'''Cyclonus''' asks an almost rhetorical question.

"Greetings, specimens! ''[aside to guard]'' They are much smarter than they appear to be on the monitor."
:— the '''Quintesson scientist'''

"We wouldn't be in this situation at all…"<br>
"…If you had not captured us."<br>
"Cyclonus, I can finish my own thoughts. I don't need you to do it for me."<br>
"Maybe the thought was not yours to begin with, Ultra Magnus."
:—'''Ultra Magnus''' and '''Cyclonus'''

"Cyclonus, you saved me? But why?"<br>
"Warriors such as you and I should meet their end in battle."
:—'''Ultra Magnus''' and '''Cyclonus'''

"Sky Lynx! Disengage and take a reverse heading!"<br>
"Ultra Magnus, where are you?"<br>
"Behind you! What do you think reverse means?!"
:—'''Ultra Magnus''' and '''Sky Lynx'''

==Notes==
===Animation or technical glitches===
*All of the shots of Unicron's head have it entirely in gold other than his mouth, when his face should be gray as well. It was correct the last time we saw it in "[[Five Faces of Darkness, Part 1]]".
*The first shot of Unicron's head shows it with black eye holes (in "Five Faces of Darkness, Part 1" it had broken green eyes). A few shots later, it has intact purple eyes.
*When we first see Ultra Magnus on the Quintesson's screen, his left foot flashes from blue to white several times.
*Several times in the episode, the area on top of Ultra Magnus' back is colored grey instead of red.
*Hardly unique to this episode, but Sky Lynx has only 2 thrusters instead of three throughout the episode.
*"Sky Lynx"'s transport section is all white and red - missing its blue - after he lands.
*Rodimus mouths Ultra Magnus' line "Rodimus! What do you mean Sky Lynx is.."
*The [[Knockoff|fake]] Rodimus is missing his spoiler in all but one shot of the illusion sequence, and is consistently colored in the lighter magneta color scheme of Hot Rod. Furthermore, in most shots, he is drawn to the specifications of a much earlier design for the character, which positions his Autobot insignia on his "collar", rather than in the center of his chest-flames. This design had previously been seen in animation in Hot Rod's [[Commercial#1986|commercial]] and [[The Transformers: The Movie promo]].
*Cyclonus gets a slightly modulated version of the Autobot laser sound effect as he shoots down the practice drone. He also sounds more like Motormaster as he gives himself the commands "Ready... aim... fire!"
*When Cyclonus first transforms to [[robot mode]], he's missing the transformation sound effect.
*The second time the fake Galvatron rushes Cyclonus, his Decepticon symbol is red rather than purple.
*"No Candid Camera insta-clicks me!" - Wreck-Gar's mouth doesn't move for this line.
*The fake Lippo the Clown's mouth is disconnected from his face as he invites Wreck-Gar inside.
*After the Quintesson reacts to Wreck-Gar's behavior, the Quintesson ship is shown drifting backwards (thrusters-first) through space. (Or more precisely, someone scrolled the star background in the wrong direction.)
*[[Wreck-Gar (G1)|Wreck-Gar]] fires his hand like a rocket to free Marissa, but he is incorrectly shown with both hands for two scenes before we see him picking up the lost hand and re-attaching it.
*Marissa is shown hitting the button on Magnus' door while standing straight, but later it's located way above where she could reach it.
*As the ship is buffeted by the electron storm, letters and numbers are visible in the clouds at the bottom of the screen.
*The Quintesson's mouth has been consistently red, but is white as he calls for resuming study of the human.
*The Allicon is shown with a moving mouthplate early in the episode, similar to Optimus Prime or Soundwave. When he announces "Aft section! Escape pods!" he's drawn with an opening mouth at the top of his mouthplate. Then as the players watch the arrival of the derilict ship, he's got a mouth at the ''bottom'' of his mouthplate - which still woobers normally!
*The Allicon's voice - and mannerisms - suddenly change during the black hole sequence; he seems to get a lot dumber and more robotic.
*In the shot of the escape pod chamber, Cyclonus is shown taller than Magnus, and again as they mutually loom over the Quintesson.
*During the first shot of the Quintesson preparing to use the escape pod, the escape pod is missing from the launch tube.
*The digital countdown timer is given an analog counter effect.
*Cyclonus's line is slightly clipped off: "Only Decepticons would travel this fa[r]".
*The Quintesson explains that the derelict ship has no engines, but a second later it gets engine sound effects as it falls victim to the black hole.
*As Magnus and Cyclonus square off after the big jailbreak, a wide shot has Magnus' face colored entirely blue for a second. When they come to grips in a continuation of the sequence a few shots later, Cyclonus' wings flash in and out of existence.
*After it emerges from the white hole, one shot shows the Quintesson ship in the usual (non-negative) colors.
*After they arrive in the negative universe and Magnus throws the scientist at the Allicon, the Allicon's right forearm goes missing. It reappears after this scene so that Marissa can remove it and use it to repair the engines, but then it's right back in place a moment later as he and the Quintesson prepare the ship's launch. It's gone again when Magnus manhandles him by the head.
*[[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]] is drawn mouthing the second half of the Quintesson scientist's line, "You all realize if the ship enters the white hole at the incorrect trajectory..."
*Cybertron's post-movie appearance remains consistently inconsistent; here, the matte painting of the planet in the epilogue features giant spikey buildings at a scale even more ludicrous than those of the standard model sheet design.
*In the exterior shot of Magnus standing in Sky Lynx's cockpit, Sky Lynx is missing his center window mullions. Instead he has a big gray hunk of machinery blocking the center of the windows.

====Rhino release====
*When [[Kid Rhino]] went back to the original film elements of this episode, a couple of shots of the Quintesson talking do not feature mouth movements, including when he announces they're going to test Ultra Magnus's reactions. These shots were originally corrected for broadcast, and the [[Shout! Factory]] DVD includes the corrected shots spliced in from the broadcast master - though with visibly softer image quality and slightly different color hues.

===Continuity errors===
[[File:Fakebroadside KillingJar.jpg|right|upright=1.1|thumb|The Quints have bad intel on Broadside—and so has Cyclonus.]]
*The illusion that the Quintessons used to trick Cyclonus is of the [[Triple Changer]] [[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]], which is really weird, since Broadside is an Autobot. He even speaks in Broadside's correct voice.
*Cyclonus requires an escape pod to escape from the Quintesson ship, even though he turns into a spaceship. If there is a relevant difference between the pod's capabilities and his alt mode's, it is never mentioned.
*The Quintesson says he understands the Transformers' programming because he helped design the Autobots. Even assuming he means the ancestors of the current generation of Autobots, it still doesn't explain how he knows anything about Cyclonus's programming, since Cyclonus was built by Unicron.
*Ultra Magnus smashes the cockpit of the escape pod to get the Quintesson out. How does he expect Marissa to use it when she doesn't have a space suit?

===Continuity notes===
*The Quintesson makes the interesting claim that he "contributed to the Autobots' design".
*Gadgets and powers:
**The Quintesson ship has a "mirage sequence" which lets it emulate all kinds of other ships, and even the voices of Transformers. It gets Sky Lynx's voice and personality spot-on!
**Cyclonus fires lasers out of his fists, joining a small cadre of Transformers ([[Beachcomber (G1)|Beachcomber]], [[Seaspray (G1)|Seaspray]], [[Ironhide (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ironhide]], [[Grimlock (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Grimlock]]) who have shown this ability.
**Wreck-Gar can fire off his hand like a rocket.
**Wreck-Gar also loses an arm and pops it right back on, in line with the Junkions' self-rebuilding abilities.
**Cyclonus has an arm-mounted tractor beam.
*The Quintesson scientist refers to his guard's transformed mode as his [[alternate mode]], the first use of that term in official fiction.
*Although he is not named, Marissa's father has the same voice actor and sounds the same as [[G.I. Joe (team)|G.I. Joe]]'s [[Flint (G.I. Joe)|Flint]], all indicating that Marissa is Flint's daughter. Additionally, the file name presented on the back of Flint's G.I. Joe toy packaging is "Dashiell R. Faireborn." This connection was later confirmed by ''Transformers'' writer and story editor [[Flint Dille]].

===Real-world references===
*A [[wikipedia:Killing jar|killing jar]] is an [[wikipedia:Entomology|entomological]] tool for killing insect specimens, usually with gas.
*As usual, most of Wreck-Gar's lines are drawn from television, film and radio:
**When lured into the Quintesson ship, Wreck-Gar says, "No candid camera insta-clicks me!" This refers to the TV series ''[[wikipedia: Candid Camera|Candid Camera]]'', one of the earliest (if not THE earliest) prank/practical joke shows on television.
**When Marissa remarks she's in a zoo or a jail, Wreck-Gar responds with "Book me, Danno, I have the right to remain silent!" "Book 'em, Danno," is a catch phrase of Jack Lord's character from the '70s action-detective series ''[[wikipedia: Hawaii Five-O|Hawaii Five-O]]''.
**As the ship gets struck by the electron storm, Wreck-Gar remarks, "What a revoltin' development!" This catchphrase originated on the 1940s radio show, ''[[Wikipedia:The Life of Riley|The Life of Riley]]''; in geek circles, it's probably better known as one of the trademark lines of the [[Thing]], the powerful member of the superhero team the [[Fantastic Four]].
**Shortly afterward, Wreck-Gar exclaims, "We've gotta get out of this place!", a likely reference to the song of the same name by [[wikipedia: The Animals|The Animals]].
**As Wreck-Gar deflects the guard's spear, he mentions "Shield is in good hands," referring to the slogan for [[wikipedia: Allstate|Allstate Insurance]].
**"Away go troubles down the drain" is the long-running slogan of Roto-Rooter plumbing services. Wreck-Gar even gets the tune and cadence right.
**When Wreck-Gar tackles Cyclonus during the escape pod feud, he says that Marissa will be staying up "All Night Long" quoting the [[Wikipedia: Lionel Richie|Lionel Richie]] song.
**When Magnus dismisses the potential rescue ship as not being a "Decepticon junk", Wreck-Gar says, "Junk? Wreck-Gar phoned home!" This plays on the famous "E.T. phone home." quote from ''[[Wikipedia: E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial|E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial]]''.
**When the Quintesson ship is about to go back through the white hole, Wreck-Gar says that they can "go back, Jack, and do it again," quoting the [[wikipedia: Steely Dan|Steely Dan]] song "Do It Again".
*Despite the wonky science that unfolds in the episode's plot, the Quintesson scientist gives us a pretty accurate summation of what a black hole is.
*''[[Star Wars (franchise)|Star Wars]]'' sound effects:
**Sparking and clashing [[lightsaber]]s throughout the electron storm sequence.
**A sped-up version of the [[TIE Fighter]] roar and [[X-wing Fighter|X-wing]] engine whine as the derelict ship spirals into the black hole, and again as the Quintesson ship emerges from the white hole.
**[[Death Star]] super laser - once again, sped up and modulated - as the Quintesson ship makes its approach to the white hole.
**''[[Millennium Falcon]]'' engine roar as Sky Lynx approaches Cybertron.

===Trivia===
[[File:KillingJar negative Magnus Marissa.jpg|thumb|upright=1.1|right]]
*While one would expect that the characters' colors while in the white hole would be the "negative" values of their originals, this is not the case. They appear to be pretty much random sets of colors.
*The background music which plays during the "working together" montage in the final act is the first piece of new music composed for season three (besides the [[theme song|opening theme]]), and would appear to have been created specifically for the scene in question. Tiny snippets of it can be heard in a selection of other episodes, and also in the ''G.I. Joe'' episode "Second Hand Emotions".

===Foreign localization===
'''German'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Der Sog des schwarzen Loches'''" ("The Maelstrom of the Black Hole")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?

'''Japanese'''
:*''Title:'' 4人の捕虜 (''Yonnin no Horyo'', "Four Captives")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[January 23]], [[1987]]
::*The Japanese version of the episode would appear to have missed the ''G.I. Joe'' reference. In the Japanese dub of the ''G.I. Joe'' cartoon, Flint was voiced by ''Transformers'' regular [[Hōchū Ōtsuka]]. However, in this episode, Marissa's father is voiced by another ''Transformers'' regular, [[Takurō Kitagawa]]. Despite overlooking it the first go around, the reference would eventually be embraced by future Japanese ''Transformers'' authors, such as [[Hirofumi Ichikawa]] and [[Yuki Ohshima]].

'''Latin American'''
:*''Title:'' El Agujero Negro ("The Black Hole")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?

'''Russian'''
:*''Title:'' '''Душегубка''' (''Dooshegoobka'', "The Killing Jar")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?

==Home video releases==
{{homevidnote}}
;VHS
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2000 — ''The Original Transformers'' — Volume 8: Evil Experiments ([[The Original Transformers|Rhino Entertainment]])
;[[Wikipedia:LaserDisc|LaserDisc]]
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 1999 — ''The Transformers: 2010'' ([[Geneon Universal Entertainment|Pioneer LDC]]) — Japanese audio only.
;DVD
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 2001 — ''The Transformers: 2010'' — DVD Box (Pioneer LDC) — Japanese audio only.<br>
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2003 — ''The Original Transformers'' — Season 3 Part 1 ([[The Original Transformers|Rhino Entertainment]])<br>
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2003 — ''The Original Transformers'' — Season 3 Part 1: Vol. 1 (Rhino Entertainment)<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2004 — ''Transformers'' — Season 3 and Season 4 ([[Metrodome]])<br>
[[File:Flag of Australia.png|20px|Australia]] 2004 — ''Transformers'' — Collection 4: Series 3.1 ([[Madman Entertainment]])<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2006 — ''Transformers'' — The Complete Generation One Collection (Metrodome)<br>
[[File:Flag of Australia.png|20px|Australia]] 2007 — ''The Transformers'' — Complete Collection (Madman Entertainment)<br>
[[File:Flag of Germany.png|20px|Germany]] 2007 — ''Transformers'' — Box-Set (3DVDs) ([[Flex Media]]) — German audio only.<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2009 — ''Transformers'' — Season's Three & Four {{sic}} (Metrodome)<br>
[[File:Flag of Australia.png|20px|Australia]] 2009 — ''The Transformers'' — Complete Collection: Decepticon Edition (Madman Entertainment)<br>
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2009 — ''The Transformers'' — The Complete Series: 25th Anniversary "Matrix of Leadership" Collection ([[Shout! Factory]])<br>
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2010 — ''The Transformers'' — Seasons Three & Four: 25th Anniversary Edition (Shout! Factory)<br>
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2011 — ''The Transformers'' — The Complete Original Series (Shout! Factory)<br>
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2014 — ''The Transformers'' — Seasons Three & Four: 30th Anniversary Edition (Shout! Factory)<br>
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2014 — ''Transformers'' — The Classic Animated Series (Metrodome)

==External links==
*[http://imdb.com/title/tt0733024/ IMDb's page for this episode]
*[http://cybertronchronicle.com/cartoon-dossier/season-3/synopses/700-91.html Episode Dossier at The Cybertron Chronicle]

{{DEFAULTSORT:Killing Jar}}
[[Category:The Transformers episodes]]
[[Category:MSTF]]

Talk:Adam Van Wyk

2016-09-13T12:41:33Z

Furhun: Created page with "Did he or did he ''not'' storyboard One Shall Fall. I know that this article suggests that he did, but according to IMDB, he has only contributed to two e..."

Rock Bottom

2016-09-13T12:29:27Z

Furhun: /* Notes */

{{episode|
|otherseries=''[[Transformers: Prime (cartoon)|Transformers: Prime]]'' ep 19
|prev=Metal Attraction
|next=Partners
|image=RockBottom-energonmine.jpg‎
|caption=That's Rock Bottom.
|title="Rock Bottom"
|airdate=[[July 16]], [[2011]]
|written by=[[Tim Jones]]
|directed by=[[Shaunt Nigoghossian]]
|animation studio=[[Polygon Pictures]]
|production company=[[Hasbro Studios]]
}}
'''The Autobots, Jack and Miko find themselves trapped inside a cave with Megatron and Starscream.'''

==Synopsis==
Waiting outside [[Stripped energon mine|a mine]] opening, [[Miko Nakadai|Miko]] complains loudly to [[Jack Darby|Jack]] that she'd rather be at the [[Slash Monkey]] metal concert she's been looking forward to. [[Arcee (WFC)|Arcee]] and [[Bulkhead (Prime)|Bulkhead]] emerge from the entrance, confused that the mine seems to be stripped, yet there's an [[energon]] signal coming from inside. While they're still discussing the conundrum, Miko runs into the mine to take a look, resulting in Bulkhead chasing her in and Jack persuading Arcee to let him go in as well. Moments after they step inside, [[Megatron (WFC)|Megatron]] and [[Starscream (WFC)|Starscream]] land at the mine entrance. Starscream is confused as to why have they come to an exhausted mine, but Megatron leads the way inside.

Bulkhead finds Miko testing the acoustics in a cavern. While she's whooping and yelling, Bulkhead's detector bleeps, and he attempts to contact Arcee. The comms, however, are useless due to interference from the rock surrounding them. Bulkhead decides to get a sample for [[Ratchet (WFC)|Ratchet]] and begins breaking pieces off the rock he's found.

[[Image:RockBottom-Starscreamprays.jpg‎|250px|thumb|left|When this life makes you mad enough to kill.]]

Megatron and Starscream find [[Decepticon]] mining equipment. Starscream tries to blame its presence on an error by [[Soundwave (WFC)|Soundwave]], but Megatron plucks a chunk of energon from the wall and explains that he's been keeping up with Starscream's many plottings, thanks to Soundwave's spying. He's let Starscream continue until now for his own amusement, but enough's enough. Starscream pleads for his life...and it's this scene that Jack and Arcee stumble on. Megatron begins firing on the two newcomers and Starscream sees his chance to try to escape. Enraged, Megatron fires after him. Arcee takes advantage of Megatron's distraction and fires, causing him to discharge his [[fusion cannon]] into the ceiling, which gives way. Massive rocks fall on Megatron, causing the floor to start caving in as well, and both Arcee and Jack fall into a swiftly widening hole.

[[Image:RockBottom-Bulkheadpassion.jpg‎|250px|thumb|When you want something bad enough to steal.]]

In the cavern, Bulkhead protects Miko from the falling rocks.

Starscream, speeding through the mine in his jet mode, is hit by rocks and can only cry out as the tunnel to the mine entrance collapses.

In the aftermath, Jack struggles up to find himself alone in the cave and goes searching for the others.

Miko likewise picks herself up to find Bulkhead holding up a huge chunk of the ceiling from caving in on them. They have no idea as to what caused the cave-in, but Miko starts trying to clear the rocks away so they can get out.

Starscream pulls himself free of the mine and into the open air. He experiences a brief moment of triumph before realizing that Megatron has survived worse and if he doesn't make some attempt to rescue his leader, the other Decepticons surely will, which will mean problems for Starscream in the long run. Besides, he can take the credit if he succeeds.

Still searching, Jack stumbles upon one of the Decepticon mining drills.

As night falls outside, Miko is tiring from her work. Bulkhead points out there's limited oxygen, and she's using it faster by exerting herself. Despite Miko saying she has to get Bulkhead out, he says he's fine, though his creaking servos tell a different story.

Jack gets the mining drill working and begins guiding it to find the others.

Bulkhead and Miko hear drilling. Miko yells out weakly, and Bulkhead tells her to hit his foot with a rock to make a noise.

[[Image:RockBottom-Megstrapped.jpg|thumb|250px|left|When you feel like you have had it up to here.]]

Elsewhere, Jack uses the drill to clear a path only to uncover Megatron's face, the rest of him still pinned by fallen rock. Megatron suggests that Jack use the drill to finish him, but Jack doesn't believe [[Optimus Prime (WFC)|Optimus Prime]] would want Megatron finished that way and drills off in another direction.

[[Image:RockBottom-Mikocries.jpg‎|250px|thumb|'Cause you mad enough to scream but you sad enough to tear.]]

Miko continues banging Bulkhead's foot, but a noise stops her and Bulkhead has to admit that his arms are starting to fail. She hits him a couple more times before someone starts to break through the wall. Unfortunately, their joy is short-lived as it turns out to be Starscream. Bulkhead asks him to let Miko go, but Miko refuses to leave Bulkhead. Starscream menaces her until Bulkhead gives him a solid kick. Starscream recovers from that, only to be knocked down by Jack's drill as it comes through the wall. Miko is quickly persuaded to hop aboard the drill, which she does tearfully, and the two humans back out, leaving Bulkhead and Starscream alone. Jack and Miko start trying to dig their way out, but Jack suddenly stops the drill dead as a large foot comes down in front of them.

Starscream is pleased. Now not only will he be able to rescue Megatron, but he'll have Bulkhead as a gift. Unfortunately for him, Arcee appears with a gun pointed at his head and tells him to raise his hands.

The Autobots exit the mine with the kids and briefly discuss finishing off the Decepticons. When they decide that Optimus wouldn't do it, they go home instead.

Starscream strains to hold up the rock that Bulkhead had been supporting when he spots Megatron leaning through the nearby opening. Starscream is reduced to begging for mercy once more and the Decepticon leader responds with a menacing look.

==Featured characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
*[[Arcee (WFC)|Arcee]] (3)
*[[Bulkhead (Prime)|Bulkhead]] (4)

|c2=
*[[Megatron (WFC)|Megatron]] (5)
*[[Starscream (WFC)|Starscream]] (6)

|c3=
*[[Miko Nakadai]] (1)
*[[Jack Darby]] (2)

}}

==Quotes==

"Do you have any idea how long I've been waiting to see Slash Monkey?"<br>
"Uhh—"<br>
"''Forever!'' And it's their only U.S. date!"<br>
"Well, there's a shock. I mean, who doesn't love obscure Bulgarian shriek metal?"
:—'''Miko''' and '''Jack''' discuss rock concerts.

"She went in. Unbelievable."<br>
"Really? Have you...met her?"
:—'''Arcee''' and '''Jack''' watch Miko run into the cave.

"Do not take me for a fool, Starscream! I have been wise to your transgressions from the beginning. Not only did you pluck the Dark Energon from my chest in a failed attempt to snuff my spark, but you tried to raise your own undead warrior with it. It's no secret that you lost an arm in the process, which you've since had replaced."<br>
"You know about that?!"<br>
"Soundwave is quite competent at surveillance, I can assure you. The fact is Starscream, despite your treachery, I've allowed you to carry on this long because I took a certain delight in following your string of failures. But you've finally become tiresome, predictable...you've hit rock bottom."
:—'''Megatron''' and '''Starscream''' discuss the latter's endeavors.

"Roll out."
:—'''Jack''' being genre savvy as he activates some Decepticon mining equipment.

"Well, what are you waiting for? Think of the glory—seize the day! Optimus would."<br>
"No, he wouldn't. Not like this."<br>
"I will be sure to share the details of our little conversation with Optimus—the day I rip out his spark!"
:—A pinned '''Megatron''' is discovered by '''Jack''', who refuses to take advantage of the situation and kill him.

"Run Miko!"<br>
"Yes, run Miko! I would love to see you try! Really, I would!"
:—'''Starscream''' mocks '''Bulkhead''' before getting knocked down by a drill. Karma, baby.

"If you think I'm going to beg for mercy, Starscream, forget it!"<br>
"Er, yes, begging for mercy would be quite pathetic, wouldn't it?"
:—'''Bulkhead''' unintentionally insults '''Starscream'''.

"Master! You're alive! Thank the Allspark. I... I did not abandon you, master! I returned! To save you!"<br>
"Save me?"<br>
"Look into my spark, Lord Megatron! My intentions were true! ''Please! Have mercy!!''"<br>
:—'''Starscream''' begs '''Megatron''' for mercy.

==Notes==
*This is one of the few episodes storyboarded by the artist [[Adam_Van_Wyk|Adam Van Wyk]].

===Animation and technical errors===
*When the cave-in begins, Bulkhead gets down on his hands and knees to shield Miko from the collapsing ceiling. In the next scene, however, he's standing upright and holding up a far larger piece of rock than he had been previously covered with.
*During Megatron's first rant at the beginning of the episode his optics are momentarily off-center. It appears as if he's gone wall-eyed.

===Continuity errors===
*Bulkhead has Miko hit him with a rock to signal Jack. Either he's devoting ''all'' his energon to holding up the rock, or he's forgotten about his sound system.
*Not so much an error as a curiosity, but based on the day/night cycle shown outside the cave, at least 12 hours passed during the episode. In all that time, the other Autobots made no apparent effort to look for their lost comrades. Considering Miko's concert was supposed to happen two hours after the start of the episode, they should have noticed something was amiss when no one came back.
*Even though the sounds of robots stomping around and yelling should echo throughout the cave, Megatron and Starscream go completely unnoticed until Arcee and Jack stumble upon them by accident. Furthermore, Megatron and Starscream enter the cave mere minutes after Arcee and Jack, yet somehow manage to get ahead of them in the tunnels undetected.
*Bulkhead says that Autobots don't need to breathe, but when Starscream gets out of the cave, he coughs and gasps for air.

===Continuity notes===
*Megatron references the events of "[[Masters & Students]]" and "[[Shadowzone (episode)|Shadowzone]]" while discussing Starscream's previous failed attempts at treachery.
*Starscream also refers to the events of "Masters & Students" when he remembers that Megatron has survived far worse than a simple cave-in.
*Miko loosely references the space bridge battle from "[[Darkness Rising, Part 5]]" when Bulkhead reminds her that Autobots don't need to breathe.

===Transformers references===
*As Jack starts up the mining drill, he quietly says, "[[Roll out]]."
*Just like the previous episode Optimus Prime and Bumblebee did not show up but since Rescue Bots and Prime run concurrently, and around this time the Rescue Bots needed Optimus Prime and Bumbleebee, I think we know [[It's a Bot Time|where they]] [[Bot to the Future|actually were]] again

===Real-world references===
*Bulkhead's "Did I do that?" line is almost certainly a reference to Steve Urkel's catchphrase from ''Family Matters''.
*Starscream says "Rust in peace!" as in "Rest in peace".

===Trivia===
*Megatron seems awfully surprised that Starscream would run at the first opportunity. Did he think Starscream wouldn't care about his earlier death threat?
*Ratchet probably never got that rock sample. Too bad.
*Miko exercises her right to charge into [[Darkness Rising, Part 3|situations]] that almost get her killed... [[Shadowzone (episode)|again]].

===Foreign localization===
'''Brazilian'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Rock Bottom'''"
:*''Original airdate:'' [[March 12|12 March]] [[2012]]

'''German'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Unter der Erde'''" ("Under the Earth")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[January 27|27 January]] [[2012]]

'''Hungarian'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Omlás'''" ("Cave In")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[February 2|2 February]] [[2012]]

'''Indonesian'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Terjebak dalam Tambang'''" ("Trapped in a Mine")
:*''Original airdate:'' 26 September [[2012]]

'''Italian'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Toccare il fondo'''" ("Touching the Bottom")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[November 27|27 November]] [[2011]]

'''Japanese'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Tansa Henkei! Chiteikara no Dasshutsu'''" (探査変形!地底からの脱出, "Exploration Transformation! Escape from the Underground")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[August 11|11 August]] [[2012]]

'''Korean'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Gwangsan Maemol'''" (광산 매몰, "Buried in the Mine")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[October 31|31 October]] [[2011]]

'''Polish'''
:*''Title:'' ?
:*''Original airdate:'' [[December 29|29 December]] [[2011]]

'''Spanish (Spain)'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Tocar fondo'''" ("Touch Bottom")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[June 23|23 June]] [[2012]]

[[Category:Prime episodes]]

Out of His Head

2016-09-13T12:28:42Z

Furhun: /* Notes */

{{episode|
|otherseries=''[[Transformers: Prime (cartoon)|Transformers: Prime]]'' ep 14
|prev=Sick Mind
|next=Shadowzone (episode)
|image=OutOfHisHead-evileye.jpg
|caption=If looks could kill.
|title="Out of His Head"
|airdate=[[May 7]], [[2011]]
|written by=[[Nicole Dubuc]]
|directed by=[[Vinton Heuck]]
|animation studio=[[Polygon Pictures]]
|production company=[[Hasbro Studios]]
}}
'''Megatron attempts to resurrect himself using Dark Energon by controlling Bumblebee's mind.'''

==Synopsis==
[[Image:OutOfHisHead-basketball.jpg|left|thumb|250px|I really enjoyed playing with you guys. Let's play some basketball. I really enjoyed playing with you guys. Let's play some basketball. I really enjoyed playing with you guys. Let's play some basketball.]]
[[Ratchet (WFC)|Ratchet]] concludes his tests on [[Optimus Prime (WFC)|Optimus Prime]] and gives their leader a clean bill of health. Optimus thanks Ratchet and [[Bumblebee (WFC)|Bumblebee]], while [[Arcee (WFC)|Arcee]] is unsure whether she managed to successfully end [[Megatron (WFC)|Megatron]]'s life during their mission on the [[Trypticon (WFC)|Decepticon ship]]. In truth and unknown to any of the others, Megatron's psyche still dwells in Bumblebee's processor, and he's determined to reclaim his own body.

[[Miko Nakadai|Miko]] referees a [[basketball]] game between Bumblebee and [[Bulkhead (Prime)|Bulkhead]]. Bulkhead easily sinks the first basket, but as Bumblebee goes to shoot, he suddenly flashes back to the [[space bridge]] explosion. When Bulkhead interrupts the vision, he gets the ball thrown at his head. Bumblebee apologizes and they play on. Later on, Bumblebee freezes as Megatron takes control. Megatron wonders how he escaped the destruction of the space bridge, and he recalls [[Starscream (WFC)|Starscream]] pulling the sliver of [[Dark Energon]] from his chest. Now knowing what he needs to restore his body, Megatron vows to take revenge upon his subordinate.

On the Decepticon warship, Starscream taunts Megatron's body with the Dark Energon sliver, announcing that he has come up with a new, epic plan that will convince the other Decepticons that he's worthy of leadership. [[Knock Out (Prime)|Knock Out]] arrives in time to hear the tail end of the speech.

Waiting outside his house, [[Raf Esquivel|Raf]] calls [[Jack Darby|Jack]], who is already in class, to complain that Bumblebee hasn't picked him up for [[Memorial High School|school]]. Bumblebee is at [[Autobot Outpost Omega One|base]], being puppeted by Megatron to crush a piece of equipment. Ratchet is irritated by the destruction, and Bumblebee explains his visions of Megatron. Ratchet induces a power-down to allow Bumblebee's mind time to rest. While he's explaining this to Optimus and Raf, they get a call from [[William Fowler|Agent Fowler]], who says that [[Decepticon]]s have broken into the [[Kauai Naval Observatory]] in [[Hawaii]] and stolen the [[Heuck Nigoghossian telescope]]'s primary lens. Fortunately, the lens has a tracking device, and the Autobots trace it to the [[Arctic]], where there's a massive, unmineable [[energon]] deposit—unmineable unless the glacier it's in is melted, something that would devastate coastal cities.

Indeed, the Decepticons have already created a heat ray with the lens, and Starscream begins melting the glacier in question.

[[Image:OutOfHisHead-vigil.jpg|right|thumb|300px|''While You Were Beeping'', starring Sandra Bullock.]]

Raf chats with the shut-down Bumblebee, despite Ratchet pointing out that Bumblebee can't hear him. Raf asserts that Bumblebee is family and shows off a photo of his parents and siblings.

Optimus, Arcee and Bulkhead walk through the Arctic and locate the Decepticon warship, which is warming things up with its heat ray.

Ratchet leaves Raf and Bumblebee to find parts to repair the equipment Bumblebee damaged. While he's gone, Bumblebee suddenly powers up and heads to the main control room, where he activates the [[GroundBridge]]. Ratchet and Raf are surprised to find him departing through the GroundBridge and wonder where the diminutive [[Autobot]] is going. Bumblebee arrives at the battlefield where Optimus and Ratchet once fought Megatron's army of [[Terrorcon (Prime)|Terrorcons]], in search of the Dark Energon shard Megatron used to raise the dead. Ratchet attempts to use the GroundBridge to follow Bumblebee, but once he activates it, Bumblebee promptly steps back through, carrying the Dark Energon, and decks the medic. Having placed Raf out of the way, Bumblebee runs back through the GroundBridge. Ratchet realizes that Megatron's mind has taken over Bumblebee, and he tracks the scout to coordinates in the Arctic. Raf insists on going too.

Atop the Decepticon warship, Starscream spots Bulkhead and Arcee. Knock Out orders [[Breakdown (WFC)|Breakdown]] to deal with the two Autobots, and the big 'Con starts laying into them. Meanwhile, the unseen Optimus scales a nearby cliff.

Ratchet and Raf arrive in the Decepticon ship to find disabled [[Vehicon (Prime)|Vehicon]]s everywhere. They reach the lab, where Bumblebee has hooked himself up to Megatron's body, but when Ratchet attacks Bumblebee, he's knocked across the room. Raf manages to encourage Bumblebee to retake control, but it's only a brief respite. Ratchet yanks the life support cable from Megatron, only to again be tossed across the room. Despite a last-ditch attempt by Raf to stop Bumblebee, the scout plunges the Dark Energon shard into Megatron's body, and Megatron awakens. A group of Vehicons arrives to find Megatron has risen from the dead, and he orders them to terminate the Autobots, as he has his own "extermination to perform". Under fire from the Vehicons, Ratchet, Bumblebee and Raf retreat.

[[Image:OutOfHisHead-grabby.jpg|left|thumb|250px|"Exit, stage lef—GURRK!"]]

Optimus reaches the top of his cliff and takes a flying leap onto the Decepticon ship. On the ground, Arcee and Bulkhead continue to battle Breakdown. Starscream and Knock Out spot Optimus coming towards them across the hull of the ship, and Starscream turns the heat ray on the Autobot leader. Undeterred, Optimus drives all the way up to the heat ray and slices it with his sword, causing the whole thing to explode. Optimus is thrown to the ground, only to face the rage of Starscream, who begins diving towards him, missiles at the ready. Starscream is intercepted halfway through the dive by Megatron, who takes his disloyal lieutenant back to the Decepticon warship. Faced with his old leader, Starscream attempts to flee in his vehicle mode, only for Megatron to grab him by the tail and toss him against the ship. Even the promise of nearby Autobots to destroy isn't enough to distract Megatron, who begins dragging Starscream away by the head.

Watching the still-blazing ship depart, Optimus radios Ratchet for a bridge, but Ratchet, Bumblebee and Raf appear nearby.

Later at base, Ratchet finishes checking over Bumblebee, who thanks Raf for helping to rescue him.
{{-}}

==Featured characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
*[[Optimus Prime (WFC)|Optimus Prime]] (1)
*[[Ratchet (WFC)|Ratchet]] (2)
*[[Bumblebee (WFC)|Bumblebee]] (3)
*[[Arcee (WFC)|Arcee]] (4)
*[[Bulkhead (Prime)|Bulkhead]] (7)

|c2=
*[[Megatron (WFC)|Megatron]] (5)
*[[Starscream (WFC)|Starscream]] (10)
*[[Knock Out (Prime)|Knock Out]] (11)
*[[Vehicon (Prime)|Vehicons]] (14)
*[[Breakdown (WFC)|Breakdown]] (15)

|c3=
*[[Miko Nakadai]] (6)
*[[Jack Darby]] (8)
*[[Raf Esquivel]] (9)
*[[Sierra's friend]] (12)
*[[William Fowler]] (13)

}}

==Quotes==


"Lucky for us, Megatron was still alive."<br>
''<Bumblebee says something>''<br>
"Yeah, I actually said that."
:—'''Arcee''' surprising us all.

"Prime, you spot any Decepticons wearing hula skirts lately?"<br>
"No, Special Agent Fowler. ''Why?''"
:—'''Agent Fowler''' says something that makes sense in context that '''Optimus Prime''' hasn't received yet.

"Mm-hmm. Yes, very nice."
:—'''Ratchet''' is unimpressed with Raf's picture of his family.

"Yes! I love when a plan comes together!"
:—'''Starscream''', fan of the A-Team.

"Decepticons! Your rightful lord and master has returned!"
:—'''Megatron''' reawakens.

"Megatron's greatest mistake was ever allowing you to live, Prime!"
:—'''Starscream''', a few seconds before Megatron shows up.

"Lord Megatron? You are...you're healed! Praise the AllSpark! It is a miracle!"<br>
"Oh, it will be a miracle all right, Starscream...if you survive what I have planned for ''you''!"
:—'''Starscream''' discovers that '''Megatron''' [[Megatron Rising - Part 2|doesn't]] [[Mission Accomplished|tolerate]] [[A Fistful of Energon|traitors]] [[Endgame, Part I|anymore]].

"But the Autobots—Optimus—right there, waiting for you!"<br>
"My greatest mistake? I've made a few. But there is ''one'' I do not intend to make again!"<br>
"N-no! Master! NOOOOOO!!!"
:—A desperate '''Starscream''' and a surprisingly self-aware '''Megatron'''.

==Notes==
*This is one of the few episodes storyboarded by the artist [[Adam_Van_Wyk|Adam Van Wyk]].

===Animation and technical errors===
*Starscream's eye is misaligned when he spots Arcee and Bulkhead approaching.
*When Ratchet rips away the life support tube from Megatron's chest, we see the buckled hole left from his wounds during the space bridge accident. However, after the Dark Energon shard restores Megatron to life, we see his chest armor completely fixed and sporting a snazzy fresh Decepticon [[insignia|sigil]]. Looks like Dark Energon can be used not only to power evil Decepticon tyrants, but as a super polish as well.
*Starscream's thruster is not producing any flames or exhaust when Megatron grabs him as he tries to fly away.

===Continuity errors===
*How did the Autobots get back to base without a GroundBridge operator?
*Megatron somehow manages to speak through Bumblebee, despite the fact that Bumblebee's damaged voice-box renders him incapable of such complex vocalizations.

===Continuity notes===
*Arcee hasn't forgotten her trip to the Arctic in "[[Scrapheap (episode)|Scrapheap]]".
*It seems that Megatron was conscious (and able to perfectly remember) when Starscream extracted the fragment of Dark Energon from his chest in "[[Masters & Students]]".
*The fight with the Dark Energon zombies took place in "[[Darkness Rising, Part 4]]".
*Bulkhead and Bumblebee play with a hollowed-out version of the ball he used for lobbing with [[Wheeljack (Prime)|Wheeljack]] in "[[Con Job]]".
*Raf doesn't know how he understands Bumblebee, as stated in his [[Raf's Notes|notebook]].

===Transformers references===
*Optimus Prime recalls their "end run on [[Polyhex]]".

===Real-world references===
*The Heuck Nigoghossian telescope is named for ''Prime'' directors Vinton Heuck and [[Shaunt Nigoghossian]].
*Starscream [[Wikipedia:The A-Team|loves it when a plan comes together.]]

===Trivia===
*In the real world, large telescopes use mirrors, not lenses.
*Raf apparently has seven people in his family, including himself. He also has at least two sisters with one of them named [[Pilar Esquivel|Pilar]].
*Sierra's friend sits in front of Jack in at least one class (or perhaps homeroom). And yet she is still unnamed.
*Even Raf doesn't know how he understands Bumblebee. [[Sari Sumdac (Animated)|He's a robot]], isn't he?
*Jack's ringtone is the same as in "[[Darkness Rising, Part 1]]".
*Raf is the first of the humans to see Megatron face to face.
*Raf finally gets to see snow. But does Optimus remember the snowball [[Scrapheap (episode)|he promised to give him]]?
*In the final scene, while Ratchet is talking, Optimus has his battle mask on, despite normally only wearing it when going out on a mission.
*Starscream states that his Dark Energon shard is the only chunk of Dark Energon on Earth. Aside from the one Megatron retrieves, [[One Shall Rise, Part 1|this would be proven wrong later]].
*It's pretty impressive that Starscream kept landing on the spires of the ships. You would think that since Megatron just aimlessly threw him aside, he wouldn't be necessarily aiming for another spire?
*Adaptations of this episode include a prose version as part of ''[[Bumblebee in Danger!]]''.
*In later episodes, Optimus condemns the concept of killing a helpless life form, yet in this episode Arcee nonchalantly boasts about her attempt to kill Megs right in front of him. Guess Optimus' hearing took a hit from the cybonic plague?

===Foreign localization===
'''German'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Ausser Kontrolle'''" ("Out of Control")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[December 23|23 December]] [[2011]]

'''Hungarian'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Elbitorolt elme'''" ("Usurped Mind")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[January 26|26 January]] [[2012]]

'''Indonesian'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Kembalinya Megatron: Invasi Bumblebee'''" ("The Return of Megatron: Bumblebee Invation")
:*''Original airdate:'' 19 September [[2012]]

'''Italian'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Fuori di testa'''" ("Out of Mind")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[November 12|12 November]] [[2011]]

'''Japanese'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Gyakushū Henkei! Megatron Fukkatsu!'''" (逆襲変形!メガトロン復活!, "Counterattack Transformation! The Resurrection of Megatron!")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[July 7|7 July]] [[2012]]

'''Korean'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Du Eolgul ui Beombeulbi'''" (두 얼굴의 범블비, "The Two-Faced Bumblebee")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[October 11|11 October]] [[2011]]

'''Polish'''
:*''Title:'' ?
:*''Original airdate:'' [[December 22|22 December]] [[2011]]

'''Portuguese'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Fora de Si'''" ("Not Himself")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[February 6|6 February]] [[2012]]

'''Spanish (Spain)'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Fuera de su cabeza'''" ("Out of his head")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[May 12|12 May]] [[2012]]

[[Category:Prime episodes]]

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2016-09-13T12:12:06Z

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