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Grimlock's New Brain

2026-05-06T20:22:18Z

Hello Goodbye: /* Animation and technical errors */

{{episode|
|series=G1toon
|image=Grimlock's New Brain Grimlock Technobots.JPG
|caption=Me Grimlock make geeks!
|ep=89
|prev2=Nightmare Planet
|next2=Call of the Primitives
|title="Grimlock's New Brain"
|season=3
|season ep=24
|Japanese=
|production code=700-110
|airdate=[[November 14]], 1986
|written by=[[Paul Davids]]
|series2=2010
|ep2=25
|production company=[[Sunbow Productions]]
|animation studio=[[AKOM]]
|continuity=[[Generation 1 cartoon continuity]]
|video=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y32IZVXBU9s
|videosite=YouTube
}}
'''Grimlock gains tremendous intelligence and creates the Technobots.'''

==Synopsis==
[[File:Grimlock's New Brain Skuxxoid Slizardo.JPG|left|upright=1.1|thumb|Purple stuff? Bah! I wanted Sunny D!]]
On [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]], the [[Autobot]]s are unveiling [[Power Platform Alpha|a new generator]] that will better supply them with power. As [[Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Rodimus Prime]] signals [[Grimlock (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Grimlock]] to activate the machine, Grimlock admits he's forgotten which switch to pull, and manages to trigger several alarms before Rodimus points out the switch he's supposed to pull. Grimlock points out that he is "smartest Dinobot of all," which [[Perceptor (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Perceptor]] notes is probably true, wishing the Dinobots had more sophisticated brains. Grimlock, mildly insulted, threatens to bash Perceptor's brain. Elsewhere, a [[Skuxxoid]] and [[Slizardo]] are sneaking into the generator to place [[anti-electron]]s inside the device, a mission [[Galvatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Galvatron]] has paid them to carry out with the aim of eventually killing the Autobots.

[[File:Grimlock's New Brain Grimlock generator off.JPG|upright=1.1|thumb|Me Grimlock hate Windows Vista.]]
In space, [[Cosmos (G1)|Cosmos]] and [[Sky Lynx (G1)|Sky Lynx]] are flying back to Cybertron, musing that they're late for the ceremony. Cosmos suddenty finds himself flying out of control, and when Sky Lynx swoops in to help, he loses control of his [[auto gyro]]s too. The other Autobots spot their predicament and rush to help as the two fliers crash into Power Platform Alpha. [[Springer (G1)|Springer]] tries to air lift Sky Lynx to repair bay, but also begins to malfunction. Perceptor concludes that the problem is originating in the generator and Rodimus, [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ultra Magnus]], Grimlock, and [[Kup (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Kup]] head down to investigate, using an [[electro map]] provided by Perceptor as a guide. The electro map is soon broken by Grimlock, who storms off in a huff after Rodimus yells at him, so while Kup babysits Grimlock, Rodimus and Magnus continue to search for the core. While Rodimus starts malfunctioning thanks to the anti-electrons, Grimlock and Kup reach the generator's controls, and Kup begins to suffer memory malfunctions. Grimlock deactivates the generator with the ever-appropriate tactic of biting it, but immediately begins to act differently. He speaks in a proper manner, with an extended vocabulary, and appears to have lost his taste for combat. He rescues Rodimus and Magnus from a security system they've tripped by simply switching it off. They soon spot [[Ratbat (G1)|Ratbat]] who has been observing them, but the Decepticon escapes. The Autobots return to the surface and pass the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobots]] [[fishing]] in a local pond. [[Snarl (G1)|Snarl]] invites Grimlock to join, but Grimlock declines, saying he has more important matters to attend to. The Dinobots are concerned, as they always fish together. Meanwhile Ratbat and reports back to Galvatron. Galvatron threatens to kill the Skuxxoid and Slizardo for ruining his plan, as the anti-electrons have already vaporized and were hard to find, but Slizardo reveals that there is another source of anti-electrons...in [[Unicron]]'s brain.

[[File:Grimlock's New Brain Dinobots fishing.JPG|left|upright=1.1|thumb|"Rodimus, isn't that a public pond?" "Quiet, Magnus, this is the only way we can get them to bathe."]]
Elsewhere, Grimlock concludes that anti-electrons were the source of the problem. As Galvatron's ship approaches Unicron's head, he cautions his soldiers, saying that Unicron may be quite powerful. On Cybertron, the Dinobots seek out Grimlock, who is building a new spaceship, and he asks for their help. [[Sludge (G1)|Sludge]] does not like Grimlock's change in attitude, and [[Slag (G1)|Slag]] declares that "Grimlock no fun". With their leader not acting like one of them, the Dinobots decide to go hunting without him. Later, Grimlock has taken Rodimus, Perceptor, and Kup to Unicron's head, having concluded that Unicron's body was the original source. However, Galvatron fires anti-electrons at the shuttle, causing it to crash and the Autobots to malfunction and even causing Rodimus to revert back to Hot Rod. Galvatron then unleashes the [[Terrorcon (G1)|Terrorcons]] on the Autobots while Grimlock runs off. Grimlock then uses components of Unicron to build [[Nosecone (G1)|Nosecone]] and asks him to drill a hole into Unicron's brain.

[[File:Grimlock's New Brain Computron Abominus.JPG|upright=1.1|thumb|Computron teaches Abominus to slow dance.]]
Elsewhere, [[Cyclonus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Cyclonus]] and [[Scourge (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Scourge]] are retrieving the anti-electrons when they reactivate Unicron. The Planet Eater's internal defenses activate, but [[Strafe (G1)|Strafe]], another robot built by Grimlock, destroys the defenses. Finally, Grimlock builds three more robots: [[Afterburner (G1)|Afterburner]], [[Lightspeed (G1 Technobot)|Lightspeed]], and [[Scattershot (G1)|Scattershot]], the last of whom he appoints as leader of the [[Technobot (G1)|Technobot]]s. He sends the Technobots to fight the Terrorcons. Cyclonus and Scourge are handing Galvatron the anti-electrons they've found when the jar is destroyed by the Technobots before they engage the Terrorcons in battle, until the Terrorcons merge into [[Abominus (G1)|Abominus]]. Retreating, the Technobots ask Grimlock for advice, and Grimlock reveals that they are also [[Combiner]]s, commanding them to merge into [[Computron (G1)|Computron]]. The computational capacity held by the gestalt is massive, yet he claims that he lacks the intelligence to feed it. Grimlock connects a device to Computron's head which transfers his super-intelligence to Computron. Now armed with incredible intelligence, Computron is able to defeat Abominus, using intense vibrations to cause the Decepticon combiner to separate, and sends the [[Decepticon]]s running.

On Cybertron, Rodimus is holding a celebration for the newly functioning generator, the creation of the Technobots, and Grimlock's efforts. However, Sludge reveals that Grimlock is fishing with the Dinobots. Grimlock says that being a genius all the time is no fun, and he'd rather be a regular Dinobot. The Autobots cheer his statement, apparently preferring their one-bot engines of destruction to be simple-minded.

==Featured Characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
{{collist|2|
*[[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ultra Magnus]] (1)
*[[Perceptor (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Perceptor]] (2)
*[[Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Rodimus Prime]] (3)
*[[Grimlock (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Grimlock]] (4)
*[[Snarl (G1)|Snarl]] (5)
*[[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]] (6)
*[[Blurr (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Blurr]] (7)
*[[Kup (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Kup]] (8)
*[[Sludge (G1)|Sludge]] (9)
*[[Springer (G1)|Springer]] (10)
*[[Wheelie (G1)|Wheelie]] (11)
*[[Slag (G1)|Slag]] (12)
*[[Sky Lynx (G1)|Sky Lynx]] (15)
*[[Cosmos (G1)|Cosmos]] (16)
*[[Blaster (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Blaster]] (17)
*[[Teletraan II]] (18)
*[[Nosecone (G1)|Nosecone]] (30)
*[[Strafe (G1)|Strafe]] (31)
*[[Lightspeed (G1 Technobot)|Lightspeed]] (32)
*[[Afterburner (G1)|Afterburner]] (33)
*[[Scattershot (G1)|Scattershot]] (34)
*[[Computron (G1)|Computron]] (36)
*[[Silverbolt (G1)|Silverbolt]] (37)
*[[Skydive (G1 Aerialbot)|Skydive]] (38)
}}
|c2=
*[[Ratbat (G1)|Ratbat]] (19)
*[[Sweep (G1)|Sweeps]] (20)
*[[Galvatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Galvatron]] (21)
*[[Rippersnapper (G1)|Rippersnapper]] (22)
*[[Blot (G1)|Blot]] (23)
*[[Sinnertwin (G1)|Sinnertwin]] (24)
*[[Scourge (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Scourge]] (25)
*[[Cyclonus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Cyclonus]] (26)
*[[Hun-Gurrr (G1)|Hun-Gurrr]] (28)
*[[Cutthroat (G1)|Cutthroat]] (29)
*[[Abominus (G1)|Abominus]] (35)
|c4=
*[[Skuxxoid]] (13)
*[[Slizardo]] (14)
*[[Unicron]] (27)
}}

==Quotes==
"Can't be that one, must be one of these. Eenie Menie miny moe. This switch real rad! Gonna pull." 
"Grimlock, no!!!!! It's this one over here!" 
"Uhhh, that Grimlock's next choice."
:—'''Grimlock''' showing '''Rodimus''' why he should not have been given such an important task.

"Why you think Grimlock stupid? Me no stupid. Grimlock is smartest Dinobot of all." 
"Unfortunately, that's probably true. I just wish the Dinobots had more sophisticated brains." 
"Brains?! Grimlock know how to bash brains. Maybe bash yours."
:—'''Grimlock''' threatening to beat up '''Perceptor'''.

'''Grimlock''': What go wrong? 
'''Perceptor''': Something incapacitated their aerial capabilities. 
'''Grimlock''': Huh? 
'''Rodimus Prime''': He means they couldn't fly, so they crashed. 
'''Grimlock''': Me knew that!
:—Simplifying things for a Dinobot isn't that simple.

"Hey, how did you shut down that baby?" 
"I, Grimlock...used my rear molars." 
"Uh that makes good sense, good going. You what?!" 
"Is your hearing impaired, Kup? Ohh, with some Autobots, you have to explain everything."
:—'''Kup''' and '''Grimlock''' the latter of whom has just received a great deal of intelligence

"Anti-electrons, of course! They attack our electrocircuits! Now why didn't I think of that?" 
"Perhaps because your mental abilities are so limited."
:—Oh snap! '''Perceptor''' just got dissed! By '''Grimlock'''!

[[File:GrimlocksNewBrain strafe robotmode.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1]]
'''Strafe''': Yahoo! It feels great to be a Technobot! My name is Strafe! 
'''Afterburner''': Far out! Fantastic! I'm Afterburner! I'm raring to burn neutrons and see some heavy action! 
'''Lightspeed''': Mellow out, Afterburner. 
'''Afterburner''': Says who? 
'''Lightspeed''': They call me Lightspeed, faster than a speeding photon. 
'''Grimlock''': And you, Scattershot, shall be the leader of the Technobots.
:—The newly created '''Technobots''' and '''Grimlock''' engage in a brief [[introdump]].

"Me Grimlock say you smart now. Me no can help you anymore!"
:—'''Grimlock''' transfers his intelligence and is done with his Skyfire impression.

"Me Grimlock say no fun to be genius all the time. Much more fun to be good old Dinobot Grimlock."
:—'''Grimlock''' on his recent bout with intelligence.

==Notes==
===Production information===
* Premise/Outline revised: 28th July 1986 (Original title: Creation Of The Technobots)
* Hun-Grr, Sinnertwin robot mode, Rippersnapper, Blot, Scattershot, Nosecone, Lightspeed, Afterburner robot mode models approved: 21st August 1986
* Sinnertwin alternate mode, Strafe models approved: 3rd September 1986
* Abominus, Computron models approved: 4th September 1986
* First draft script: 16th September 1986
* Script finalised by [[Marv Wolfman]]

===Continuity notes===
[[File:Broadsidegrimlocksnewbrain.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1|Snarl and Blurr are stepping on Broadside's feet, while Kup is stepping on Snarl's feet.]]
[[File:ScattershotGrimNewBrain.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1|Somehow these shots hit the Terrorcons, who are standing on the same surface as him.]]
*Final appearance of Cosmos.
*Broadside appears here in his revised toy-based model, with a faceplate and smaller head. He's also consistently shown to be huge - twice the size of the Dinobots, who loom over the average Autobot. This can be considered rather odd, as [[AKOM]] was typically handed out of date pre-final model sheets for most of their episodes.
*The Skuxxoid previously appeared in "[[Five Faces of Darkness]]" and "[[Starscream's Ghost]]", again working as a freelance agent in Galvatron's employ. He repeats his grumbly "wife and kids" schtick from the latter episode, though a lot more half-heartedly.
*Slizardo, meanwhile, hasn't been seen since Season 2's "The Gambler", when he was rocketing off with Devcon following a change of heart. Looks like it didn't take!
*Ratbat appears, but [[Soundwave (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Soundwave]] isn't in the episode.
*The Terrorcons make their inauspicious debut here; they appear without explanation or introduction.
*Cybertron circa 2005 has some standing water - the pool the Dinobots are "fishing" in.
*Unicron's head is shown to no longer orbit Cybertron, after the events of "[[Ghost in the Machine (G1)|Ghost in the Machine]]" saw it blasted off into space. It's also looking substantially worse for wear than it was the last time we saw it, presumably a consequence of the explosives that were set off in its immediate vicinity in that episode.
*The anti-electrons have a neat effect on Rodimus Prime the second time they cause his transformation systems to malfunction: he briefly reverts into Hot Rod! This is no error: in addition to transforming into his junior self's vehicle mode, his coloring changes to Hot Rod's traditional magenta, and actor [[Dick Gautier]] raises his voice in pitch to his normal Hot Rod voice. (It's one in a series of incidents that see Rodimus reverted to Hot Rod, presumably to push the toy.)
*Gadgets and powers:
**Scattershot displays his often-forgotten third mode, a stationary artillery piece.

===Real-world references===
*''[[Star Wars (franchise)|Star Wars]]'' sound effects:
**[[TIE Fighter]] roar as Sky Lynx and Cosmos crash.
**And again as Ratbat flees from Rodimus & company.
**''[[Millennium Falcon]]'' roar as Strafe takes off.
**TIE Fighter again as Scattershot makes his first attack.
**And again as he dives in front of Abominus.
**[[X-wing Fighter|X-wing]] diving whine as the Decepticons retreat.

===Animation and technical errors===
*"Grimlock's New Brain" features ''spectacularly'' low production values almost across the board. The animation is choppy, the artwork is poor, the shot blocking frequently cuts off characters (Kup utters his whole first line of dialog while we look at the back of his head; Magnus keeps blocking and unblocking our view of Perceptor while he delivers his opening speech), characters are often off-model, the visual effects are goofy, much of the voice processing is incorrect, and the story doesn't entirely make sense.
*As is par for the course post-Movie, Cybertron looks different in the opening establishing shot than any previous appearance.
[[File:GrimlocksNewBrain Slizardo with anti-electrons.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1|WOO YEAHHHH! I'm gonna chug this whole keg, then I'm gonna do the animation for "Grimlock's New Brain"!]]
*Coloring errors:
**Just as in Season 2, AKOM seems to have gotten incorrect color models for several characters. Thus:
***Rodimus and Galvatron are both consistently colored using outdated color models; Rodimus's shoulder indentations are red instead of white, his pelvis-windshield details are white instead of light burgundy, and his gun is red instead of black, while Galvatron has pale purple "underpants."
***The inside of Ultra Magnus's mouth is consistently portrayed as red.
**A long shot during Magnus's speech shows Perceptor's chest in all-red.
**In a pan over the listening Autobots, Sludge's dino mode eye is drawn too large and colored all-blue; Broadside has red bits on his cheeks that should be gray.
**Grimlock's entire neck is grey for a moment as he tries to remember which switch to throw; it should be yellow-gold.
***The back of his neck is grey in several subsequent shots.
**When he drops the container of anti-electrons, Slizardo's eye is green.
**And then both his eyes - including the one under the patch - are featureless yellow blobs as he and the Skuxxoid report to Galvatron.
**When Rodimus is grabbed by Hun-Gurrr, his spoiler is all-yellow. (It should be orange in the middle.)
*Rodimus is missing his spoiler as he reacts to Grimlock's first wrong button-push.
*Though he's speaking, Grimlock's mouth doesn't move as he deactivates the first switch and pulls the second.
*Rodimus's collar extends much too far into his chest as he corrrects Grimlock.
*When the Autobots applaud the activation of the power generator, Springer is twice as tall as Kup and [[Blurr (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Blurr]].
*Voice processing:
**The Skuxxoid's voice is missing the raspy flange it had back in "Five Faces of Darkness".
**Cosmos's voice is missing its usual self-echo effect throughout the episode.
**Blaster's voice is missing its usual modulation.
*The smoke that first bursts from Cosmos's engines is layered behind him, rather than emerging from the thrusters.
*When Blaster is struck by the beam of light, his switch is drawn as one long switch instead of three small ones.
*As Perceptor, Grimlock, and Rodimus walk forward to see Blaster's predicament, they seem to appear out of thin air.
*As Springer flies off to help his about-to-crash comrades, he clips through Grimlock.
[[File:RodimusPrimeG1-trailermanagement.jpg|thumb|right|upright=2.2|It follows him around everywhere: down stairs, into space, on other planets...]]
*Where's the trailer go?
**The cartoon never quite decided how Rodimus Prime was supposed to transform. More often than not, his robot form becomes his entire space Winnebago form, as when he transforms alongside Springer. Occasionally, though, his trailer portion is treated Optimus-style, sliding on or off the screen as needed - twice in this episode. It rolls off-screen as he returns to [[robot mode]] at the crash site, and it rolls in from off-screen when he involuntarily transforms in the tunnels. The latter instance is particularly [[Show-accuracy|toy-accurate]], as his lower body doesn't so much transform as "lie down and plug into the trailer".
[[File:GrimlocksNewBrain Cosmos and SkyLynx crashed.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1]]
*Cosmos transforms into robot mode, but is back in spaceship mode as Blaster tries to report.
*Teletraan II's report starts with a shot of space for some reason.
*The next shot shows a huge display in front of the Autobots instead of a framed screen.
*"Me Grimlock wonder how this happen" - the inside of Grimlock's dino-mouth is missing, making his head appear one-dimensional when his mouth is open; meanwhile, Rodimus's collar is dark red instead of orange.
*After Teletraan II's report, a shot is layered incorrectly, so Perceptor looks huge next to Rodimus Prime.
*As they enter the tunnels, Kup and Magnus are the same height; Kup should be several heads shorter.
*Rodimus's spoiler is too far up on his back after Grimlock storms off.
*When Rodimus starts reacting to the generator, he and Magnus are bathed in a bright blueish light; the subsequent two shots show them in normal colors.
*"What did you do, bite the controls?" - Rodimus is as tall as Magnus; he should be a bit shorter.
*"But Dinobots always go fish together!" - Slag's mouth is drawn moving (just barely), but Snarl's voice is speaking.
*Ratbat flies into one of the slots in Galvatron's terminal, but subsequent shots are missing the slots.
*When the Terrorcons open fire on Unicron's cerebral chamber, Hun-Gurrr and Sinnertwin's lasers don't come from any actual point on their bodies.
*"But - what you do?" Slag's horns are gray instead of red, and his foreleg is missing.
*Sludge's neck repeatedly flashes between yellow and grey for a few frames when Grimlock gives him orders.
*The Decepticon ship has no thrusters as it approaches Unicron's head.
*The Terrorcons are HUGE as they attack the Autobots. Hun-Gurrr ''has'' been shown to be a bit larger than the standard Transformer, but not to the point of towering over Rodimus in his low-slung [[beast mode]]!
[[File:Grimlocksnewbrain hotrod vs hungrr.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1|Rodimus's "EAT ME!!" challenge might've gone better if he were Tommy Lee Jones, but alas, he is not.]]
*Hot Rod's missing his spoiler as Hun-Gurrr grabs him. Hot Rod also has a red Decepticon insignia in this scene.
[[File:Grimlocks-new-brain-nosecone-vehicle.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1]]
*Nosecone is huge in his first few shots - he's taller than Grimlock after drilling into Unicron's brain, and his [[alternate mode|vehicle mode]] is large enough for Grimlock to hang onto the back of.
**Said drilling of a "passage deep into Unicron's brain" consists of drilling through... one wall.
*Cyclonus is missing the orange shapes on his chest and waist in several shots.
*Thanks to Roger C. Carmel's inconsistency with his voices, Unicron sounds similar to John Colicos's Apocalypse from the 1992 ''[[X-Men]]'' TV series (although it also sounds drunk).
*Afterburner's Autobot logo moves up his chest (and has a black frame instead of white) as Lightspeed introduces himself. Lightspeed's own logo is missing in the same shot.
*Scattershot's chest is misproportioned as Grimlock names him leader.
*In a subsequent closeup shot, Scattershot's optic visor has a white outline that shouldn't be there.
*An overhead shot shows the Autobots firing their weapons, but no beams coming out.
*As he dives to attack, Scattershot is layered over some parts of Unicron when he should be behind them.
*Much like the Stunticons and Combaticons before them, the Technobots appear to lack proper transformation sequence guides. One after the next, they morph from robot to vehicle and back with no correlation between the two modes.
*During [[Abominus (G1)|Abominus]]'s combination sequence, [[Hun-Gurrr (G1)|Hun-Gurrr]] transforms into [[Cutthroat (G1)|Cutthroat]] and [[Sinnertwin (G1)|Sinnertwin]], who then transform into Abominus's legs. Hun-Gurr himself then drops into the frame from above and merges with them.
**The same effect is used in reverse when Computron breaks Abominus apart. The Sinnertwin leg is also drawn with one of Cutthroat's wings attached to it.
*Hun-Gurrr's order to merge continues long after the combination sequence is complete.
*As Abominus reacts to Scattershot, the background behind him suddenly changes saturation.
*Even with Computron's combination sequence almost entirely off-screen, AKOM still screwed it up - two halves of Scattershot are seen separated and combining.
*As the Decepticons shoot Computron, Galvatron is shooting too, but we don't hear his cannon's sound effect.
*Computron shoots the Decepticons, but his laser is missing its beam.
*The Decepticons are far too big when they leave Unicron's head.
*As Rodimus delivers a closing speech to the Autobots, Cosmos's arms are drawn backwards, and Kup is portrayed as a generic in a vaguely Kup-esque color scheme. The same shot is also a good illustration of how the Technobots had no back-side character models - Scattershot's nosecone is drawn as a tiny flat cylinder on his left shoulder, for example.
*Afterburner is missing his mouth as he and the others turn to look for Grimlock.
*Earlier on, we saw Sludge devour a mechanical fish. In his final shot, Grimlock grabs what is clearly an organic fish (which must be like ten feet long). So... which is it?
*In the last shot of the episode, Blaster is missing his switches, Perceptor and Cosmos are missing their Autobot logos, and pretty much everyone is a malformed blob.

===Continuity errors===
*The creation of the Technobots seems to conflict with the premise established by "[[The Key to Vector Sigma, Part 1|The Key to Vector Sigma]]"; in those episodes, it is established that the supercomputer [[Vector Sigma]] is required to give personalities to Transformers, but here, the Technobots get personalities independently of it. We might hand-wave it by saying the super-smart Grimlock simply has the skill needed to program full, authentic cybernetic personalities into the Technobots on his own. With the introduction of the concept of [[spark]]s in much later fiction and the reclassification of Vector Sigma as a conduit to the Allspark, the events of this episode are called into question again.
**Note that this discrepancy is shared with ''every single other episode'' in which new Transformers are shown being created.
**''Maaaaany'' years later, [[Ask Vector Prime]] would offer the explanation—for the alternate-continuity "[[Transformers: Wings Universe|Wings Universe]]" version of the cartoon—that Grimlock had been able to use [[Dark Energon|Unicron's lifeblood]] to generate sparks for the Technobots, in the same way that [[Energon|Primus's lifeblood]] could.
*If Grimlock has proven himself so incompetent, why does Rodimus have Grimlock, of all 'bots, activate the generator at the beginning? Why not someone like Perceptor, who's even conveniently nearby when they decide to pull the switch?
*Likewise, why does Rodimus bring him along to find the power generator? There are plenty of other Autobots who can provide muscle.
*The anti-electrons affect Cosmos and Sky Lynx without any visual effect to convey that they were hit by them. But on the surface, the generator suddenly starts targeting random Autobots with pinkish anti-electron rays. Nobody seems to notice this peculiar behavior, even when it causes them to malfunction. Later, Rodimus and Kup suffer the effects again with no visual representation.
*Blaster's "This ain't ever happened before" claim is a bit hyperbolic - similar things happened to various Autobots during the events of "[[Desertion of the Dinobots, Part 1]]" and "[[Kremzeek!]]".
[[File:Grimlock's New Brain Electromap.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1]]
*Perceptor's "electro-map" looks a lot like a compass!
*When the Autobots near the power generator, why are Kup and Rodimus affected, but Ultra Magnus and Grimlock aren't?
*Swoop is curiously absent from the Dinobots, particularly since Snarl makes a fuss over them all fishing together.
*Blurr can be seen numerous times fighting alongside the Autobots, despite him not being present on the shuttle ride over.
[[File:GrimlocksNewBrain Brainwave Transfer.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1]]
*Even being super-intelligent, Grimlock somehow creates the Technobots in what seems like a few minutes. He also creates the intelligence transfer helmet in no time at all!
*Seems like a scene or two may have been swapped around: after Nosecone brings Grimlock into Unicron's brain, things cut away to Cyclonus and Scourge as they awaken Unicron, and when we return to Grimlock and Nosecone, Strafe and Lightspeed have suddenly appeared, and Strafe (referred to by name) is instrumental in disabling Unicron's defenses. We might simply assume Grimlock built these two new 'bots in the intermission, but then, after the action cuts to the fighting on the surface, we return to Grimlock, and he is finishing the construction of the Technobots, who then line up and give their introductory speeches and names, including Strafe, like we were supposed to be hearing of him for the first time. It appears that scene of Unicron awakening and his defenses being disabled should have come after this, rather than before.
*Galvatron, Cyclonus and Scourge are retreating by flying off Unicron's head. They are leaving their spaceship (and Terrorcons).

===Trivia===
*While the episode is centered around Grimlock, he never once transforms out of his dinosaur mode. Then again, seeing a ''T. rex'' talk with such an extensive vocabulary is kinda funny.
*The device Grimlock invents to transfer his intelligence into Computron was later rendered in plastic and included with the [[Heroes of Cybertron (toyline)|Super Collection Figure]] PVC version of Grimlock. It would subsequently be recreated in plastic ''again'' for the ''[[The Transformers: Masterpiece|Masterpiece]]'' version of Grimlock, which dubbed the contraption the "[[Brainwave Transfer Device]]".
*Voice actor [[Gregg Berger]] has stated that while this was the most difficult episode for him to do (in that it required figuring out how an intelligent Grimlock should sound), it was also the episode he enjoyed working on the most, as it shows him using his [[Jetfire (G1)|Skyfire]] voice for Grimlock's intelligent voice.
*The concept of Grimlock becoming smart for a single episode would be revisited in the ''[[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2015 cartoon)|Robots in Disguise]]'' episode "[[Brainpower]]".
*"Anti-electrons" in this episode are clearly meant to be a technobabble-sounding fictional substance with an adverse effect on electronics, rather than the {{w|positron|positrons}} that exist in reality and are also known as "antielectrons".

===Foreign localization===
[[File:GrimlockManga.jpg|upright=1.1|thumb|Meet Prof. Grimlock. Cheaters and plagiarists will not be expelled, merely eaten.]]
'''French'''
:*''Title (European French broadcast):'' ?
:*''Title (Canadian French broadcast and European French DVD release):'' "'''La nouvelle intelligence de La Menace'''" ("Grimlock's New Intelligence")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?
::*To date, and although there is probably one in existence, the European French dub of this episode is lost. The French DVD editions use the Canadian French dub instead.
::*In that same Canadian French dub, Sky Lynx is still called by his English name instead of "Chaînon".

'''German'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Grimlocks neues Gehirn'''" ("Grimlock's New Brain")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[July 6]], [[1990]]

'''Italian'''
:*''Title (first dub):'' "'''Tiran l'inventore'''" ("Grimlock the Inventor")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?
::*Usually in this dub Springer speaks using an aulic and poetic speech, but in this episode he speaks in normal Italian instead. He's also not voiced by his usual actor here.
::*Grimlock doesn't change his speech when he becomes intelligent. In fact, Kup's lines are slightly changed making it look like he simply didn't understand what Grimlock said instead of being surprised by how he was talking.
::*Skuxxoid's line: «I did what you asked and now I want my money 'cause my kids need it, you see» finishes '''after''' he stops moving his mouth and '''after''' Slizardo begins speaking (you can actually hear both talking at the same time). Skuxxoid also says that his friends need the money, istead of his kids.
::*When Grimlock tells the Technobots that he can't be their leader, he says that the reason is that they will live more than him, and that he's old. This is clearly not true since Grimlock is actually extremely young for an Autobot, being more or less twenty years old.
:*''Title (second dub):'' "'''Il nuovo cervello di Grimlock'''" ("Grimlock's New Brain")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?

'''Japanese'''
:*''Title:'' "'''グリムロックの新しい頭脳'''" (''Grimlock no Atarashii Zunō'', "Grimlock's New Brain")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[May 29]], [[1987]]
:*Artwork for the episode featured in ''[[TV Magazine]]'' showed Grimlock wearing a mortarboard and lecturing on something complicated.
:*A (very short) "[[Secret Files of Teletraan II]]" segment unique to Japan was attached to this episode. The segment focuses on [[Bruticus (G1)|Bruticus]], [[Menasor (G1)|Menasor]] and [[Superion (G1)|Superion]]. It replaces the original "Secret Files" segment used in the US broadcast which focused on [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ultra Magnus]]. The original segment was never used in the Japanese broadcast of the series.

'''Mandarin'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Cōngmíng de Gāngsuǒ '''" (聪明的钢锁, "Clever Grimlock")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?

'''Brazilian Portuguese'''
:*''Title:'' '''?'''
:*''Original airdate:'' ?
::*This episode's original translated title is currently lost due to a glitch in the only known surviving copy of the audio track.

'''Polish'''
:*''Title:'' '''Nowy mózg Grimlocka''' ("Grimlock's New Brain")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?
::*Cybertron is called Salvatron.
::*When talking about checking the Unicron's brain, Skuxxoid says "Unicornów" (in plural).
::*Abominus is not referred by name - he is either called Giant or Terrorcon (or rather Terricon).
::*Ratbat is just called "the enemy" (by Rodimus).
::*"Terrorcons, merge to become Abominus!" was misunderstood and translated "10 ton! Będę niepokonany" ("Ten tons! I will be invincible!").

==Home video releases==
{{homevidnote}}
;VHS
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 1988 — ''Transformers'' — Dark Awakening / Grimlock's New Brain ([[Tempo Video]]) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 1990 — ''Transformers'' — Dark Awakening / Grimlock's New Brain ([[Tempo Video|Abbey Home Entertainment]]) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2000 — ''The Original Transformers'' — Volume 9: Grimlock the Hero ([[The Original Transformers|Rhino Entertainment]])
;{{w|LaserDisc}}
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 1999 — ''The Transformers: 2010'' ([[Geneon Universal Entertainment|Pioneer LDC]]) — Japanese audio only.
;DVD
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 2001 — ''The Transformers: 2010'' — DVD Box (Pioneer LDC) — Japanese audio only. 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2004 — ''The Original Transformers'' — Season 3 Part 2 & Season 4 ([[The Original Transformers|Rhino Entertainment]]) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2004 — ''Transformers'' — Season 3 and Season 4 ([[Metrodome]]) 
[[File:Flag of Australia.png|20px|Australia]] 2004 — ''Transformers'' — Collection 5: Series 3.2 ([[Madman Entertainment]]) 
[[File:Flag of France.png|20px|France]] 2005 — ''Transformers'' — Volume 21 ([[Déclic Images]]) — Canadian French audio only. 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2006 — ''Transformers'' — The Complete Generation One Collection (Metrodome) 
[[File:Flag of Australia.png|20px|Australia]] 2007 — ''The Transformers'' — Complete Collection (Madman Entertainment) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2009 — ''Transformers'' — Season's Three & Four {{sic}} (Metrodome) 
[[File:Flag of Australia.png|20px|Australia]] 2009 — ''The Transformers'' — Complete Collection: Decepticon Edition (Madman Entertainment) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2009 — ''The Transformers'' — The Complete Series: 25th Anniversary "Matrix of Leadership" Collection ([[Shout! Factory]]) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2010 — ''The Transformers'' — Seasons Three & Four: 25th Anniversary Edition (Shout! Factory) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2011 — ''The Transformers'' — The Complete Original Series (Shout! Factory) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2014 — ''The Transformers'' — Seasons Three & Four: 30th Anniversary Edition (Shout! Factory) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2014 — ''The Transformers'' — Roar of the Dinobots (Shout! Factory) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2014 — ''Transformers'' — The Classic Animated Series (Metrodome)

==External links==
*[https://drive.google.com/open?id=1E-6fFXNC9RuWTq1Ypp5CRlRHzXg-LwAg Episode dialogue script]

[[Category:The Transformers episodes]]

Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity

2026-05-05T13:21:28Z

Hello Goodbye: /* Notes */

{{factions|autobot|autobotg2|wreckers}}
{{suite}}
[[File:TVMGuideHotRodDaniel.jpg|thumb|upright=1.95|Without a sterile, informative caption we'd never know which individual pictured is Hot Rod.]]
Whether causing trouble as '''Hot Rod''' or leading the Autobots in the long, long war against the Decepticons as '''Rodimus Prime''', he certainly left an impression in the [[Generation 1 cartoon continuity]]!

==''The Transformers'' cartoon==
{{voiceactor|[[Judd Nelson]] (English, ''The Movie''), [[Ted Schwartz]] (English, ''[[#Notes|see Notes]]''), [[Dick Gautier]] (English), [[Hiroya Ishimaru]] (Japanese), [[Akimitsu Takase]] (Japanese, "The Rebirth")|[[Lei Changxi]] (Chinese TV series), [[Zhang Lin]] (Chinese, "The Rebirth"), [[Daniel Gall]] (French, ''The Movie''), [[Francis Lax]] (European French, "Five Faces of Darkness" episodes & "The Rebirth, Part 2"), [[Henry Djanik]] (European French, season 3), [[Philippe Roullier]] (European French, "The Dweller in the Depths", "Only Human" & "The Face of the Nijika"), [[Serge Lhorca]] (European French, as Hot Rod, "Dark Awakening" & "The Return of Optimus Prime, Part 2"), [[Albert Augier]] (European French, "The Rebirth, Part 1"), [[Georges Atlas]] and [[Michel Barbey]] (European French, "The Rebirth, Part 3"), [[Hubert Gagnon]] (Canadian French, Season 3), [[Toni Mora]] (Spain-Spanish, ''The Movie''), [[Enrique Hernández]] (Spain-Spanish, TV series), [[Jorge García]] (Latin American Spanish), [[Stefano Mondini]] (Italian, Season 3), [[Christian Iansante]] (Italian, second movie dub), [[Thomas Rau]] (German), [[Franz Rudnick]] (German, as Hot Rod in "The Return of Optimus Prime, Part 2"), [[Hans-Rainer Müller]] (German, as Hot Rod in "The Rebirth, Part 1"), [[Peter Musäus]] (German, as Hot Rod in "The Rebirth, Part 2 & 3"), [[Crock Krumbiegel]] (German, The Movie TV Dub and Generation 2 Series), [[Achim Barrenstein]] (The Movie DVD dub, German), [[Júlio Chaves]] (Portuguese as Hot Rod, "The Movie"), [[Hélio Ribeiro]] (Portuguese as Rodimus Prime, "The Movie"), [[Affonso Amajones]] (Portuguese, "The Movie" Fox Kids dub), [[Márcio Simões]] (Portuguese, season 3), [[Seong-ho Shin]] (Korean, ''The Movie'' (KBS dub), [[Eom Joo-hwan]] (Korean, ''The Movie'' Iljin Video dub)}}

[[File:HotRodFishing1.jpg|upright=1.4|thumb|If you love fish like I do, you want them to die with dignity.]]
In 2005, Hot Rod was one of the many Autobots based in the completed Autobot City. He was close friends with the young human [[Daniel Witwicky (G1)|Daniel Witwicky]] and seemed to have a reputation for being something of a troublemaker, judging from a few of [[Kup (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Kup]]'s comments to him at the time. While out [[fishing]] with Daniel one day, he consoled his young human friend over the absence of his father Spike (currently stationed on one of Cybertron's moon bases), then attempted to cheer him up by proposing that they head to [[Lookout Mountain]] to watch the arrival of an Autobot shuttle. This required smashing through a security cordon that Kup and some other Autobots were in the process of setting up, but Hot Rod's breach of security was soon to fade to irrelevance. Observing the shuttle through a viewing scope, Daniel was alarmed to spot a hole in the side, and the concerned Hot Rod used his built-in telescopic visor to discern the horrifying truth of the situation: the shuttle had been hijacked by Decepticons! Hot Rod opened fire on the stolen shuttle and exposed their ruse before [[Megatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Megatron]] could enter the city, though he was nearly blasted by [[Blitzwing (G1)|Blitzwing]] for his troubles and had to be rescued by Kup. Hot Rod's action had given the rest of the Autobots time to begin transforming Autobot City and raising their defenses, but this in turn left Hot Rod trapped outside with Kup and Daniel, until the [[Insecticon (G1)|Insecticons]] helpfully chewed an opening into the city that the trio were able to use to gain access, swatting the pesky critters as they did so.

[[File:Tftm hotrod matrix.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.4|Dibs!]]
Fighting continued through the night, culminating with the arrival of a second shuttle commanded by [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]]. Prime engaged Megatron in a one-on-one battle, but at a pivotal moment, Hot Rod observed that Megatron was feigning defeat in an attempt to reach a fallen weapon. Hot Rod tackled Megatron, but proved no match for the Decepticon leader; Megatron seized him and used him as a human (well, robot) shield so that he could deliver the fatal blasts that mortally wounded Prime. Prime used the last of his strength to dispatch Megatron, but then collapsed; Hot Rod ran to his side, begging his fallen leader for forgiveness. On his deathbed, Optimus Prime passed the [[Matrix of Leadership]] to [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ultra Magnus]], reciting a prophecy that claimed an Autobot would use the Matrix to "light our darkest hour". When Prime's strength gave out and he dropped the talisman as he was handing it over, Hot Rod caught it before it fell to the floor, and it glowed brightly in his hands.

[[File:TFTM-HotRodcar.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|He's on the run from Barbie's garage.]]
After Prime's death, news reached Autobot City of a [[Unicron|monster planet]] that was advancing on Cybertron. Hot Rod had "this feeling" that the Matrix could stop the creature, but before any plans could be made, Autobot City came under Decepticon attack once again—by [[Galvatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Galvatron]]. The Autobots were able to flee into space aboard twin shuttles, and Hot Rod passed the time sparring with an [[auto-combatant]] before the Decepticons caught up to them. In the ensuing space battle, Hot Rod's shuttle was shot down by [[Cyclonus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Cyclonus]], and he, Kup and the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobots]] found themselves stranded on the planet [[Quintessa (planet)|Quintessa]]. Awakening underwater in one of Quintessa's oceans, in the clutches of some mechanical vines and beset by ferocious robotic fish, Hot Rod hacked his way to freedom with his buzzsaw-hand, then saved Kup from the grip of a huge metal squid-creature. Hot Rod took the damaged Kup to shore and pieced him back together, and the pair then set off to search for the Dinobots, only to wind up crossing paths with [[Allicon|more strange inhabitants]]. The [[universal greeting]] and [[energon goodie]]s only temporarily placated the creatures, who captured Hot Rod and Kup and brought them before their masters, the [[Quintesson]]s. They learned from another captive, [[Kranix (G1)|Kranix]], that the monster planet was known as "[[Unicron]]", then attempted to stage an escape when they were brought to trial and thrown to the [[Sharkticon (species)|Sharkticons]]. The pair gave a good account of themselves, but were hugely outmatched by the Sharkticon swarm and seemed doomed for certain, until the Dinobots and their new ally [[Wheelie (G1)|Wheelie]] arrived to turn the tide. Wheelie provided the team with a Quintesson ship to leave the planet.

[[File:TFTM-WreckGarbang.jpg|left|upright=1.4|thumb]]

Hot Rod was just in time to stop the native Junkions and their leader [[Wreck-Gar (G1)|Wreck-Gar]] from destroying the rest of the Autobot City refugees with a timely—and successful— use of the universal greeting. Together, they all traveled to [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] to stop Unicron before he could eat more than just its moons.

[[File:RodimusPrimeMovie1.jpg|upright=1.4|thumb|"The murderer could be ''anyone''. It could be him, it could be her, or maybe, it could even be...'''''YOU!'''''"]]
Hot Rod crashed the Quintesson ship through Unicron's eye, and was separated from his comrades as they fell through his giant body. Alone, deep in the bowels of the chaos-bringer, he found himself facing Galvatron in a battle to the death over the Matrix of Leadership, which Galvatron had previously stolen. Overpowered by Galvatron, Hot Rod was throttled by the Decepticon and was moments from death, until he seized the Matrix that hung around Galvatron's neck. Filled with its power, Hot Rod proved to be the "Chosen One" of legend, and was transformed into "Rodimus Prime": an older, larger, and more powerful version of himself. After overpowering Galvatron and hurling him through Unicron's hide into the void of space, he opened the Matrix and destroyed Unicron from within. He managed to make his way to the other Autobots and led them in escaping Unicrons imploding form. Upon arriving on the reclaimed Cybertron, he announced the start of a new Golden Age to the assembled Autobots. {{storylink|The Transformers: The Movie}}
{{note|Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime’s involvement in these events, or events mostly similar, were also chronicled in the comic mini-series "[[Transformers: The Animated Movie]]," the storybook "[[Transformers the Movie (Ladybird adaptation)|Transformers the Movie]]" and the "Special Edition The Transformers: The Movie extra page" of "[[Transformers: The Ultimate Pop-Up Universe]]."}}

[[File:Ffod4 rodimus in matrix.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.4|"You must take your place in the circle of life."]]

Peace reigned on Cybertron for at least long enough to put up some of the more important buildings, and Rodimus Prime began to ease into his role as the new Autobot leader. He even opened the first [[Galactic Olympics]], although the event was disrupted by mysterious assailants who kidnapped Ultra Magnus, Kup and Spike Witwicky. In an attempt to discover if the Decepticons were responsible, Rodimus took [[Grimlock (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Grimlock]] to spy on them, but the pair were discovered and attacked. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 1}} The two Autobots were rescued by Arcee and [[Springer (G1)|Springer]], but Rodimus had been injured in the attack, and his spirit entered the Matrix. The experience revealed to him that the Quintessons were behind the kidnapping. With this knowledge, the Autobots rescued their fellows from Quintessa, just as the Quintessons destroyed the planet. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 2}}

[[File:FFOD5 Rodimus victory speech.JPG|thumb|upright=1.4]]

The Autobots were flung through space, eventually crashing down on the planet [[Goo Number 8739-B|Goo 8739-B]]. After Springer's dismemberment at the hands of a giant machine, Rodimus faced the machine alone, clogging its intakes and causing it to crash. Their troubles weren't over, as the Quintesson-led Decepticon army soon showed up to renew hostilities. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 3}} Rescued by the Junkions, the Autobots were taken to Junk, where Rodimus short-circuited himself in order to consult the Matrix once again. The knowledge of [[Transformer]] history and their creation at the hands of the Quintessons was revealed to him, leading him to realise that Cybertron was in deadly danger. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 4}}

Returning to Cybertron, Rodimus led the defence of the planet against Galvatron's strike force. It wasn't until [[Blitzwing (G1)|Blitzwing]]'s warning that the true nature of the threat was revealed: a [[large switch|switch]] deep under the planet's surface which controlled the life force of every Transformer in existence. Although Rodimus headed off the contingent of Sharkticons who aimed to pull the switch, Galvatron himself pulled it, disabling all of the Transformers. Fortunately, Spike was on hand to turn them all back on again. After Galvatron was sent into retreat, Rodimus gave a speech to the Autobots about how they had won...for now. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 5}}

[[File:Zombiesmatrixmakesmetoostrong.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.4|Crap, I hope this isn't a popularity contest!]]
Throughout 2006, Rodimus Prime's greatest achievements revolved around his predecessor, Optimus Prime. While fleeing from a Decepticon attack, Rodimus and several other Autobots took refuge in a massive [[Autobot Mausoleum]] and discovered that their former leader seemed to have returned to life. Perhaps a little too trusting of Optimus (and possibly eager to relieve himself of the burden of leadership), Rodimus quickly passed the Matrix back to Optimus and, much to his glee, reverted to Hot Rod. His happiness was short-lived, however, as Optimus was quickly revealed to be nothing more than a puppet of the Quintessons, sent to trick the Autobots into an ambush from which none of them would escape. With no other choice, Hot Rod was forced to do battle with Optimus Prime for the fate of the Autobots. Although their duel was clearly in the favor of the more powerful Optimus, Hot Rod was able to re-awaken the true spirit of his leader. Returning the Matrix to Rodimus, Optimus then piloted his ship into the heart of the ambush and sacrificed himself to save them all. {{storylink|Dark Awakening (episode)|Dark Awakening}}

Soon after Perceptor left on a standard research mission to a nearby asteroid belt, Rodimus Prime and the Autobots received a distress call from the survey group. They arrived to find the asteroid infested with Quintessons, but managed to drive off the tentacled freaks and their Sharkticon shock troops. Perceptor was near deactivation due to injuries, however, and the rest of the Autobots were nowhere to be seen. The Quintessons attempted to retake the asteroid but, after failing, were soon desperate enough to tell the truth: Their technology on the rock was a [[Time Window]], and leaving it open was risking the fates of all time and space. With the help of the Quintesson scientist and a [[Alpha Trion|mysterious stranger with a devilish moustache]], Rodimus Prime retrieved his lost Autobots and shut down the time window. {{storylink|Forever Is a Long Time Coming (episode)|Forever Is a Long Time Coming}}

[[File:Fightorflee Rodimus explosion.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|He just needs a cigarette.]]
The Autobots learned of a lost Cybertronian colony known as [[Paradron]] after one of its citizens, [[Sandstorm (G1)|Sandstorm]], arrived on Cybertron begging for help. It seemed that Galvatron and the Decepticons had seized control over the planet and its vast energon reserves. Rodimus Prime and the Autobots staged a tactical infiltration, but the escalation of violence between the two forces led to total devastation. Rodimus gave the pacifistic Autobots of Paradron his impassioned "Move it or lose it!" speech before hustling them off-world so that Ultra Magnus could blow up their home. As Sandstorm sat there mourning the loss of his world, Rodimus Prime gave him some solemn advice.
{{bigquote|Well, no need to get all mushy. Cybertron's a better place anyway—not so...perfect.|}}
{{storylink|Fight or Flee (episode)|Fight or Flee}}

Rodimus and the Autobots were stumped when someone carried off [[Fort Knox]] in the middle of the night. They detected [[Dinosaur transform static]] at the scene (seriously), found a small pile of [[energon cube]]s, and had just been informed by [[Teletraan II]] that Trypticon was still alive. It was a head-scratcher, all right. They eventually figured it out, though, and sieged the occupied nation of [[Socialist Democratic Federated Republic of Carbombya|Carbombya]] to chase the Decepticons away, then recovered Fort Knox and the other monuments Trypticon had stolen. {{storylink|Thief in the Night}}

[[File:StarscreamsGhost Rodimus waves goodbye.JPG|left|thumb|upright=1.4|[[AKOM]] liked to color my crotch like my windshield (as was [[#Notes|originally intended]]). AKOM did a loooot of episodes.]]
When the freelance agent named [[Octane]] was being kidnapped from Cybertron's surface by Cyclonus and the Sweeps, Rodimus Prime and the Autobots stormed out to save their associate. Things were more complicated than they looked, however, as when Rodimus confronted Cyclonus, the Decepticon lieutenant spoke with [[Starscream (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Starscream]]'s voice! For some reason, learning Starscream was involved made Rodimus willing to let the Decepticons go. Crazy as it sounds, though, it worked—Starscream and Octane managed to lure Galvatron into an Autobot ambush. Rodimus Prime gave a friendly wave to Starscream for a job well done as he departed. ''Zuh''? {{storylink|Starscream's Ghost}}

While preparing for the first annual Cybertron peace conference, Rodimus Prime got together with [[Spike Witwicky (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Spike Witwicky]] to prepare a surprise party for Danny. They were interrupted by a [[Combaticon (G1)|Combaticon]] attack, as the Decepticons wanted to prevent the conference from occurring. The Combaticons were driven off, however, and only minor damage was done. {{storylink|Surprise Party}}

During a diplomatic function, Rodimus Prime was forced to play statesman and deal with Ambassador [[Ynara]] and the other delegates. Curiously, when Daniel Witwicky went missing and Rodimus had an excuse to duck out of the "festivities", he chose to delegate the search mission to Ultra Magnus and [[Blaster (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Blaster]]. Perhaps the normally action-hungry Rodimus Prime was actually becoming more accepting of his leadership duties. {{storylink|Madman's Paradise}}

[[File:NightmarePlanet Rodimus Daniel in bed.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|Rodimus really needs to learn how to delegate.]]
When Daniel Witwicky began experiencing recurring nightmares, Rodimus never dreamed he would have to face those nightmares personally. The Quintessons' latest experiment was to turn the young boy's imagination against his Autobot friends. Danny's own subconscious fought against the Quintessons' manipulations, though, and helped the Autobots save themselves. After that experience, Rodimus Prime stayed by Danny's bedside until he conquered his fears and ended the nightmares. {{storylink|Nightmare Planet}}

Cybertron was put on high alert after [[Scourge (G1)|Scourge]] broke into Metroplex on Earth, stealing his eyes and blowing up a bomb in his brain. Rodimus and the Autobots were eventually able to suss out that Scourge was working with the ghost of Starscream, and they in turn were acquiring those eyes for Unicron. Rodimus put together a strike team and sent Ultra Magnus, Springer, [[Hot Spot (G1)|Hot Spot]] and [[Groove (G1)|Groove]] to Unicron to investigate, but they were repulsed by the Chaos-Bringer's defenses. Their second mission was more successful, detonating a series of explosives underneath Unicron once he came down to Cybertron, intent on connecting himself to the planet and turning it into his new body. After Unicron was successfully blasted back into orbit, Rodimus congratulated his men on a job well done. As a joke, he told Magnus and the others their next mission would be to return to the head of their Living Devil and retrieve his stolen eyes. That Roddy—he's hilarious. {{storylink|Ghost in the Machine (G1)|Ghost in the Machine}}

[[File:Quintessonjournal diplomacy.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.4|Rodimus Prime: diplomat.]]
Rodimus was dutifully overseeing some reconstruction work on Cybertron when [[Sky Lynx (G1)|Sky Lynx]] and [[Superion (G1)|Superion]] reported odd activity over the planet of Junk and among the Junkions themselves. He assembled a task force aboard [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]] to take a look firsthand. Blaster managed to neutralize the hypnotic signals influencing the Junkions, but the Autobots were unable to learn the cause of the whole situation. {{storylink|The Big Broadcast of 2006 (episode)|The Big Broadcast of 2006}}

At a galactic peace conference, Rodimus and Ultra Magnus attempted to end the centuries of war between the planets of [[Xetaxxis]] and [[Lanarq]]. They might as well have asked Galvatron, "Why you so ''crazy''?" Every attempt at straight talk and reasonable discourse broke out into a brawl, fist-fighting and eventually laser fire. The two worlds only reached an accord once Blaster and Sky Lynx arrived with a Quintesson journal, detailing how the entire war between the two planets was a "case study" in escalation manipulated by the Quintessons to sell bigger and better armaments to both sides. {{storylink|The Quintesson Journal}}

[[File:UltimateWeapon-Rodimuspoint.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|"I did your mom!"]]
Rodimus Prime began to struggle with the burden of leadership again during a skirmish in Europe, where the Decepticons were working in conjunction with human terrorists. The pacifistic [[First Aid (G1)|First Aid]] chose to leave the Autobots after his refusal to fight cost Metroplex his transforming cog, and Rodimus chided himself for not having the words to convince the medic to stay. He was also unsettled by Galvatron's crowing about a new "[[Ultimate Weapon]]" which would bring the Autobots to their knees. Regardless of his internal strife, Rodimus continued the fight. He came up with a plan in which Spike and Daniel Witwicky posed as part of the (evil?) human repair crews working on Trypticon and liberated the Decepticon city-bot's transforming cog just as the 'Cons had taken Metroplex's. Rodimus and Ultra Magnus had to fight off Galvatron and the [[Stunticon (G1)|Stunticon]] in order to stall for time so that the Witwickys could complete their mission. Fortunately, the Stunticons had been off <s>the shelves</s> the field for a while by this point, and so were utterly demolished by the two Autobots. Eventually, First Aid returned to the Autobots to finish repair work on the cog, and Rodimus ultimately called Galvatron's bluff and uncovered his "Ultimate Weapon" as the sham it was. These victories renewed Rodimus's confidence in his leadership abilities...until next time. {{storylink|The Ultimate Weapon}}

One day, Rodimus Prime orchestrated the insertion of a new [[power core]] on Cybertron, designed by Perceptor to give the Autobots limitless free energy. Unfortunately, Perceptor also installed an emergency level to jettison the power core into space in the statistically impossible scenario that they would ever need to do such a wild, crazy thing. Sure enough, mere hours later, the power core was floating through space with a [[Trans-Organic]] [[Dweller (G1)|monster]] of Lovecraftian proportions latched to the outside of it. Rule of thumb: Installing any form of self-destruct switch increases the likelihood of needing said switch a billion percent. Encasing it behind glass adds another billion. {{storylink|The Dweller in the Depths}}

[[File:OnlyHuman Rodimus Michelle breakfast.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.4|That's right. He stayed for ''breakfast''.]]
Rodimus Prime and the Autobots joined forces with the human police to help stop a domestic terrorist named [[Victor Drath]]. They grossly underestimated their opponent and were easily captured by Drath after he lured them to his residence with an anonymous phone call. Using some <s>[[Cobra]]</s> mysterious technology, Drath siphoned the consciousnesses of Rodimus, Ultra Magnus, Springer and Arcee out of their bodies, inadvertently casting them into synthetic human forms. While trying to get back into Drath's headquarters, Rodimus and Springer were separated. Drath's girlfriend [[Michelle]] was intrigued enough by Rodimus's human form that she hid him from Drath's men. At least until after coffee...THEN she handed him over to Drath. Rodimus managed to overpower Drath and his men, and the villain's scheme was undone. Perceptor managed to reverse the process and restore the Autobots to their true forms. With one regretful look cast towards Michelle as she was led away by the police, Rodimus Prime rolled for home with the other Autobots. {{storylink|Only Human}}

[[File:Grimlocksnewbrain hotrod vs hungrr.jpg|upright=1.4|thumb]]
At the unveiling of a new power generator, Rodimus Prime got frustrated at Grimlock's gross stupidity. Things only got worse when the Autobots discovered [[anti-electron]]s being beamed out of the power generator and needed to negotiate the tunnels beneath Cybertron to reach the generator core...and Grimlock broke their only map. Luckily for Rodimus's sanity, Grimlock spontaneously developed super-intelligence after biting through the cables connecting the anti-electrons to the power generator. The Autobots then went on a mission to Unicron's head to prevent the Decepticons from recovering any more anti-electrons to use against them, but once there, they came under attack by the particles again, and Rodimus was affected so badly that he actually briefly transformed him back into Hot Rod. The Autobots were nearly overwhelmed by the animalistic [[Terrorcon (G1)|Terrorcons]], but Grimlock constructed [[Computron (G1)|Computron]] and the [[Technobot (G1)|Technobots]] as a counter-force against the bestial Decepticons. Rodimus and the others drove off the remaining Decepticons and restabilized the power generator for Cybertron's use. {{storylink|Grimlock's New Brain}}

On Earth's [[Moon (moon)|Moon]], Rodimus Prime and the Autobots were engaged in trench warfare with the Decepticon for some vague but no doubt important reason. Rodimus demonstrated his keen tactical brilliance when the Decepticons attacked, suggesting the Autobots do the unexpected... and counter-attack. No, really—Galvatron seemed utterly amazed when they did that. However, the non-bestial Transformers on both sides were rendered lifeless when the energy-draining creature known as [[Tornedron]] attacked them while en route to Earth. When the threat was eliminated by Grimlock, Rodimus and the others came back to life without realising that anything had happened. {{storylink|Call of the Primitives}}

[[File:FaceNijika-Rodimustruck.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.4|Rodimus goes camping in style.]]
Rodimus and the Autobots arrived at the scene of a Quintesson quadrant lock as Galvatron was trying to claim it for himself. The Quintessons attempted to stop further investigation of the quadrant lock by casting the Transformers through a warp. Their encounter with the native [[Zamojin (species)|Zamojin]]s inside the lock was less than cordial, but the Autobots eventually managed to disable the quadrant lock and return starlight to the Zamojin people. {{storylink|The Face of the Nijika}}

[[File:BurdenHardest Hot Rod retrieves matrix.jpg|upright=1.4|thumb|"I sure hope Optimus Prime doesn't come back next week or something."]]
After a particularly strenuous series of Decepticon attacks on Japan, Rodimus Prime was in no mood to be chewed out by the Japanese government for "not helping enough". When [[Marissa Faireborn]] stopped by at just the wrong time with yet another problem, Rodimus blew her off and went racing on the back roads to let off some exhaust. Unfortunately, he was spotted by the Stunticons [[Dead End (G1)|Dead End]] and [[Wildrider (G1)|Wildrider]], who knocked him for a loop and (surprisingly) shook the Matrix of Leadership loose from his chest cavity. After the Stunticons made off with the Matrix, Rodimus woke up as Hot Rod. Shockingly to Springer and Ultra Magnus, Roddy was in no hurry to go after the thieves and recover the Matrix. His ''giri'' had become too burdensome, and Hot Rod was hardly interested in reclaiming the burden so soon. He returned to a dojo that had been upset by [[Bruticus (G1)|Bruticus]] during the earlier attacks and observed the sensei and his pupils. After finding his center again, Hot Rod returned to the city, where the huntsman known as Scourge had been misusing the Matrix as a source of raw power to destroy everything around him. After a brief fight, Hot Rod reclaimed the Matrix from Scourge and became Rodimus Prime once more, accepting his path in life. Oh, and Kup was nodding sagely on the sidelines the entire time. Apparently, that helped somehow. {{storylink|The Burden Hardest to Bear}}

[[File:HotRodReturnOfOptimusPrime1.jpg|left|upright=1.4|thumb|"I did his mom, too."]]

As it turned out, far from being destroyed, Optimus Prime had been retrieved by a team of human scientists who were hoping to use him (again) as a weapon against the Autobots—this time as the bearer of a malignant "[[Hate Plague]]" that would cause them to destroy one another. When he learned of this, Rodimus swiftly formed a rescue party and led them to retrieve Optimus's body so that their former leader could rest in peace. When all of the rest of the Autobots with him were exposed to the Hate Plague, only Rodimus was able to escape unharmed—and with the still-uninfected body of Optimus. Returning to Autobot City, Rodimus ordered [[Sky Lynx (G1)|Sky-Lynx]] to find a Quintesson to repair Optimus, then risked his life to shut down [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]] before the Plague could spread to the titanic Autobot. Attacked by Ultra Magnus and Wreck-Gar in the process, he succumbed to the plague and became infected with hate. {{storylink|The Return of Optimus Prime, Part 1}} In order to stop the Plague, the resurrected Optimus had to defeat the crazed Rodimus and forcibly extract the Matrix from him, changing him back into Hot Rod once more. This time, as Optimus had decided to stick around, the change was a permanent one. {{storylink|The Return of Optimus Prime, Part 2}}

[[File:Rebirth3 hotrod spins.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|Not shown: Firebolt expelling the contents of his stomach shortly afterward.]]
Even after losing his position as Autobot leader, Hot Rod was not the sort to rest on his laurels. In 2007, he was on Cybertron sharpening his skills in a race with Blurr through an obstacle course called "[[Maze|the Maze]]", and won the contest with a little help from Daniel. This provided Autobot scientist [[Brainstorm (G1)|Brainstorm]] with more fodder to wax lyrical on his theories about Transformer-human partnership, but his lecture was cut short by the sudden arrival on the planet of the full force of the Decepticon army, who were intent on opening the [[Plasma energy|Plasma Energy Chamber]]. Hot Rod and his team were able to steal the key to the chamber from the Decepticons, but not before the chamber was briefly opened, releasing a blast of energy that catapulted their shuttle across the galaxy. They crash-landed on the planet [[Nebulos]], where they were captured by a group of native rebels that mistook them for the mechanical servants of the planet's evil rulers, the [[Hive (G1)|Hive]]. The rebels changed their tune when a team of Decepticons attacked, having tracked the Autobots to the planet, but half the Autobots, including Hot Rod, were taken captive by the villains. {{storylink|The Rebirth, Part 1}} Hot Rod and his fellows stood up to the Decepticons' torture, and were soon rescued by their teammates, who had [[binary bonding|bonded]] with the Nebulan rebels to become [[Headmaster (technology)|Headmasters]]. The Decepticons then teamed up with the Hive to create Headmasters of their own, and took the process further by creating [[Targetmaster (technology)|Targetmaster]]s as well. The Autobots copied the technology, and Hot Rod volunteered for the process, allowing his gun to be reconfigured into an exo-suit for the Nebulan sharpshooter Firebolt. {{storylink|The Rebirth, Part 2}} Hot Rod and Firebolt went on to aid in the defence of Cybertron as Galvatron attempted to use the Plasma Energy Chamber to destroy it. {{storylink|The Rebirth, Part 3}}

For [[Tommy Kennedy]]'s birthday, Rodimus Prime, among other Autobots, presented to the human boy a cake. {{Storylink|Surprise Party#Season 5|Season 5: Surprise Party}}

==Japanese cartoon continuity==
{{note|The events of the Generation 1 cartoon occur in Japanese animated continuity as described above, except without the events of "The Rebirth". Additionally, this continuity moves the events of 2006 forward to 2010 and inserts several additional events into the newly created intervening years.}}

===MC Axis comics===
[[File:Hot Rod MC Axis instruction comic.jpg|thumb|right]]

Some [[Decepticon]]s attempted to kill Hot Rod by ambushing him. Completely undisturbed, Hot Rod responded by blowing them to pieces with his dual pistols. Shooting them up, he confusingly explained that his mind and body had been "transformed into tough", making him more than strong enough to defeat a gang of thugs. {{storylink|The Transformers (MC Axis manga)|The Transformers: Hot Rod}}

===Dark Hot Rod toy bio===
Using a [[clone synthesizer]], Megatron created an evil duplicate of Hot Rod known as [[Dark Hot Rod]]. This doppelganger believed himself to be the one true Hot Rod and began a campaign to destroy the original and seize the Matrix of Leadership from Optimus Prime. In a confrontation with Hot Rod in a crystal-lined cave, a burst of energy finally made Dark Hot Rod aware of the truth. Accepting that he was a copy, and to atone for his crimes, he joined the Autobots. {{storylink|Dark Hot Rod#Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers|Dark Hot Rod toy bio}}

===''The Battle of the Star Gate''===
In the mid-1990s, Hot Rod joined numerous Autobots led by Optimus Prime and Ironhide on an all-out assault on the ''[[Trigger]]'' orbital warp gate. They were able to defeat the behemoth (which had been possessed by the time-traveling ghost of Starscream), but at a tremendous cost. Most of the Autobots were severely injured and had to leave the Earth for an extended period. {{storylink|The Battle of the Star Gate}}

===Rodimus Wars===
{{charstubfiction|{{storylink|Rodimus Wars}}}}

===''Story of Binaltech''===
In an alternate timeline where Optimus survived Cybertron's encounter with Unicron thanks to a temporally displaced Ravage, Hot Rod was shocked to hear that he would have become the Autobots' next leader, had the flow of time not been altered. After hearing so from Overdrive, who had investigated the other timeline with his dimensional powers, Hot Rod eyed the Matrix, now in Ultra Magnus's possession. Ultra Magnus told Hot Rod not to get any ideas. {{storylink|Binal Time}}

===''Kiss Players''===
{{voiceactor|[[Ryōtarō Okiayu]] (Japanese)}}

[[File:Kp3 toy accurate hotrod.jpg|upright=0.85|thumb|left]]
When Rodimus Prime hurled Galvatron into space at the conclusion of their battle within Unicron, he could not have predicted the tragic result of this action. Galvatron crash-landed on Earth, on top of [[Tokyo]], [[Japan]], devastating the city and sparking off a massive anti-Transformer movement spearheaded by the [[Earth Defense Command]]. Horrified by what his actions had wrought, Rodimus gave up the Matrix to Ultra Magnus and reverted to Hot Rod once more, seeking a way to redeem himself for his unintentional misdeeds. {{storylink|Tonight's Big Catch!?}}

Hot Rod returned to Earth in the year 2006, by which stage the planet had been scoured clean of Transformers by the E.D.C. He was badly damaged by the [[anti-electron]] field that the E.D.C. had set up around the planet, and wound up falling out of the sky and crashing into the E.D.C.'s headquarters, plunging through its levels into the subterranean chamber known as the [[Genital System]]. His explosive arrival interrupted a grotesque experiment involving former E.D.C. operative [[Shaoshao Li]] and the severed heads of several [[Legion (KP)|Legion]] (monstrous creatures created when Galvatron's cells, scattered by his impact, fused with Earthly creatures and machines). {{storylink|Kiss Players issue 2|Kiss Players #2}} The Legion attacked Hot Rod and began to [[Parasitech|fuse]] with him, but a [[kiss]] from Shaoshao—one of the E.D.C.'s [[Kiss Player]]s, also given fusing powers by Galvatron's cells—saved him, reformatting him into a Ford GT body. {{storylink|Kiss Players issue 3|Kiss Players #3}}

[[File:Kissplay3 hot rod tentacled.jpg|upright=1|thumb|There came a point during rehearsals that Hot Rod wondered if The Haunted Sunflower was the right role for him.]]
Together with Shaoshao, Hot Rod went on the run, battling the E.D.C. and the Legion, while working to expose the evil intentions behind of Shaoshao's former employers. {{storylink|Kiss Players episode 2|Kiss Players #2}} Shaoshao, a longtime robot-hater, was not pleased about the partnership, disgusted by both the fact that she had to kiss Hot Rod {{storylink|Kiss Players episode 5|Kiss Players #5}} and the Autobot's own smug self-confidence in his speed and sharpshooting skills. She insisted that he work hard on his martial arts training, but Rodimus preferred to simply use Shaoshao's own skills by fusing with her. {{storylink|Kiss Players episode 8|Kiss Players #8}} As part of his training, he learned to wield his tonfa weapons as guns, and embarked on a long-distance drive as a test of endurance. {{storylink|Kiss Players episode 11|Kiss Players #11}}

Drawn to the E.D.C. headquarters by a massive Legion attack on the facility, Hot Rod and Shaoshao were shocked to see Optimus Prime at the head of the Legion swarm! Given that Prime had died the previous year, Hot Rod assumed he was facing an imposter and attacked, unaware that this was actually the genuine article, who had been brought back to life by the Kiss Player powers of Shaoshao's old friend, [[Marissa Faireborn]]. The battle was broken up and the Legions turned away by the E.D.C.'s most powerful Kiss Player, [[Atari Hitotonari]], and Hot Rod and Shaoshao returned to their fugitive lifestyle. {{storylink|Kiss Players issue 3|Kiss Players #3}}

[[File:HotRodKP.jpg|thumb|upright=1|left|Flames on his arms and a spitfire in his tummy.]]
Despite being on the lam, Hot Rod still had time for a little [[fishing]] now and then, (even though Shaoshao hated the fishy stench he would invariably return covered in) {{storylink|Kiss Players episode 17|Kiss Players #17}} and even built himself a fishing pole that could transform into a set of blasters, dubbed the "[[exhaust weaponry|Exhaust Rod]]". {{storylink|Kiss Players episode 20|Kiss Players #20}} While Hot Rod was putting his new pole to use on a fishing trip to Tokyo Bay, he and Shaoshao were attacked by a mass of Legion and fused to fight back. It was during this latest fusion that Shaoshao glimpsed Hot Rod's memories and discovered that he was responsible for throwing Galvatron into space, and her fury caused the fusion to end quite violently. {{storylink|Tonight's Big Catch!?}} Despite Hot Rod's peace offering of new underwear (actually stolen from Marissa), {{storylink|Kiss Players episode 29|Kiss Players #29}} Shaoshao concluded that she really didn't care about his guilt, and was just using him to win Marissa back from Optimus Prime. {{storylink|Kiss Players episode 26|Kiss Players #26}}

Investigating a large number of Legion that seemed to be converging on Tokyo, Hot Rod and Shaoshao spotted a dark-haired girl riding on the shoulder of one of the creatures. As they watched, she disappeared into the Legion, and they believed she may have been a Kiss Player, until Hot Rod realised that his scanners had not picked up any body heat from the girl. {{storylink|Kiss Players episode 32|Kiss Players #32}} As if this haunting experience was not bad enough, Hot Rod then began to suffer from nightmares, filled with images of Megatron, caused by the Galvatron cells that the Legion had added to his system when they had tried to fuse with him. Shaoshao exploited the increase in Rodimus's violent tendencies that these nightmares caused by whispering in the Autobot's ear as he slept, telling him that he had to kill the impostor Optimus Prime so she could have Marissa back. {{storylink|Kiss Players episode 35|Kiss Players #35}}

When Marissa and Prime led another army of Legions in another attack on the E.D.C. headquarters, Shaoshao and Hot Rod were again there to face them. The two Autobots were overcome by the destructive impulses of their Galvatron cells and began viciously fighting, but as they did so, Marissa and Shaoshao were able to settle their own differences and bring the battle to an end, vowing to discover the dark secret at the heart of the E.D.C. {{storylink|Kiss Players episode 37|Kiss Players #37}} Together with Atari, the group ventured down into the Genital System, where they discovered a secret plot by E.D.C. commander [[Hitoshizuku Amaō]] to resurrect her dead daughter (the ghost girl Hot Rod and Shaoshao had seen) in Atari's body. Atari thwarted Amaō's fusion process, however, and instead caused all of the scattered Galvatron cells to be re-absorbed into the Decepticon leader's comatose body. Hot Rod destroyed the anti-electron field generator, and was then reverted to normal as his Galvatron cells were drawn out of him and reconstituted within Galvatron's body, which Atari then flung into space. {{storylink|Me, You, and the Spinning Earth}}

Hot Rod went on his way, but did not take back the Matrix and leadership of the Autobots until the year 2010. It is unknown whether he ever discovered that the true instigators of the Tokyo incident were Unicron's minions, the [[Sparkbot]]s, who had altered Galvatron's trajectory. {{storylink|Japanese Generation 1 cartoon timeline|Kiss Players timeline}}
{{--}}

===''Cloud''===
Some of Hot Rod's exploits with Shaoshao Li were witnessed by [[Hot Rodimus]] of [[Cloud World]] and [[SARA]] as they visited this spacetime. The latter Transformer was a bit weirded out by the whole thing and the innocent SARA later proposed kissing her companion, an idea Hot Rodimus shot down. {{storylink|Wandering}}

===e-HOBBY comics (1)===
[[File:Black Rodimus Convoy comic.jpg|thumb]]

Burdened by leadership and the shadow of his predecessor, Rodimus Prime let doubt creep into his mind. Unfortunately, the doubt didn't stay there—a [[clone synthesizer]] prepared by [[Starscream (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Starscream]] created a new duplicate body of Rodimus, and his negative emotions flowed into it to create a second whole personality. [[Black Rodimus Convoy|Black Rodimus]] emerged and caught his "creator" off-guard, stealing the power of the Matrix from his chest. Now back as Hot Rod, Rodimus was forced to fight to reclaim the mantle he never wanted to begin with. {{storylink|Destron Doppelgänger Black Rodimus Convoy}}

===''Macrocosmic Seekers''===
[[File:United Expanded Story 5.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.4]]
On [[Christmas|Christmas Eve]], 2010, Rodimus Prime was attending a party thrown by Daniel Witwicky when he received a transmission from the Junkion [[Scrapheap (G1)|Scrapheap]] about a mysterious "treasure" he had found on [[Junkion (planet)|Junkion]]. Sneaking out of the party with Kup, Rodimus headed for Junkion, where he discovered that Scrapheap's find was a piece of Optimus Prime's armor, shorn off in some ages-old battle, which had made its way to the Junk planet as all refuse does; valueless scrap to anyone else, but a precious reminder and a Christmas present like no other for the young Autobot leader. {{storylink|A Gift from the Planet of Scrap}} Unfortunately, Rodimus's communications with Scrapheap had been monitored by the Decepticons, and Galvatron, Cyclonus and Scourge then arrived to steal the "treasure", unaware of what it actually was. {{storylink|Unending Battle}} During the battle, Galvatron captured Kup and demanded the treasure in exchange for his life; Rodimus Prime was perfectly willing to comply, but before he could, the entire group was suddenly abducted by the mysterious alien known as the [[Seeker (United)|Seeker]]. {{storylink|A Treasure Lost}}

[[File:United Expanded Story 6.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4]]
Interested in studying the personalised, accelerated evolutions Rodimus and the three Decepticons had undergone in their lifetimes, the Seeker sealed them in capsules and used his powers to wind time back to the moment of their recreations: Rodimus was transformed back into Hot Rod, his body perpetually shimmering with the blue light of the Matrix, from the moment when he opened it and was transformed into Rodimus Prime. {{storylink|Eternal Moment}} Freed by Scrapheap, Rodimus and the youthful Junkion liberated the Decepticons, {{storylink|Time to Move}} who then set about destroying large portions of the Seeker's ship, eroding the alien's consciousness along with it. Throughout the firefight, Hot Rod protected Kup with a new power his Seeker-induced transformation had given him: the ability to project a forcefield from his buzzsaw. {{storylink|Those Who Resist}} With the Seeker destroyed, Hot Rod determined to end the fighting by handing the treasure over to Galvatron, who left in a rage when he discovered the whole fight had been over a piece of worthless metal. Even as he departed, however, Hot Rod held on to his morals and refused to shoot him in the back; amused, Galvatron refrained from any parting attacks also. {{storylink|A Treasure's True Worth}}

[[File:United Expanded Story 9.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.4]]
To cure the wounds [[Kup (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Kup]] had sustained in the fight, Scrapheap used an energy siphon recovered from the Seeker's ship to drain off the Matrix energy from Hot Rod's body and use it to heal the old Autobot. In the process, Hot Rod's own consciousness drifted into the Matrix, where he spoke once again with the ancient Autobots within, and finally asked them why he was chosen as the next leader when Ultra Magnus had seemed a more appropriate choice. The Autobots responded that while it was true that Magnus could well have been a leader of Optimus Prime's caliber, Optimus Prime had never succeeded in ending the war. It was only through innovation, through Hot Rod and the choices he could make, the actions he could perform, the things Optimus or Magnus could ''not'' do, that change could be brought about. With this realization, Hot Rod began to return to consciousness, but not before he heard Optimus Prime tell him that he would always be with him, regardless of what the future held. {{storylink|Journey to the Future}} Reawakening, Hot Rod found he was Rodimus Prime once more, and congratulated Scrapheap on his quick thinking with an offer to join the Autobots, which Scrapheap happily accepted. {{storylink|Macrocosmic Seekers (issue)|Macrocosmic Seekers}}
{{--}}

===Controverse===
Hot Rod attended the trial of [[Primacron]] held by the Galactic Courts. Though at first furious that a [[Adveraros|Quintesson]] was presiding over the tribunal, when the judge acquitted Primacron and ordered him sent to [[Doruka III]] for his protection, Hot Rod found the ruling to be surprisingly sensible. That is, until he was informed that the Quintessons likely planned on harvesting the scientist's brain on the asylum planet. The courtroom erupted into chaos as both Autobots and Decepticons made a grab for Primacron, and Hot Rod helped control the panicked crowd while others saw to Primacron's safety. {{storylink|Controverse}}

===''Generations Selects Special Comic'' (1)===
In 2011, Unicron attempted to reform himself out of the bodies of his disciples. Hot Rod was present with Autobot and Decepticon alike fighting to stop him. {{storylink|Super Megatron comic 1}} In the end, Optimus Prime called upon [[Primus|the Oracle]] and the purified [[Angolmois Energy]] of the [[Precursor World]] to defeat Unicron and seal him away at the [[Triple Z Point]]. {{storylink|Generations Selects Special Comic Finale|Finale}}

===''The Headmasters'' cartoon===
{{voiceactor|[[Hiroya Ishimaru]] (Japanese)|[[John Culkin]] (English, Omni Productions dub), [[Chen Daqian]] (Chinese)}}
[[File:MysteryofPlanetMaster-HotRod.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|"And ''you'' better stay close to ''me!''"]]
One year after the Hate Plague affair and the resurrection of Optimus Prime, Hot Rod maintained a high-level position among the Autobots as well as a new sense of duty and responsibility. Hot Rod was stationed on [[Athenia]] when the Decepticons, bolstered with the addition of new Headmaster warriors, attacked Cybertron in an attempt to take control of [[Vector Sigma]], which had become destabilized as a result of the Matrix's energy being released. {{storylink|Four Warriors Come out of the Sky}}

When a group of Autobot Headmasters arrived to help, Optimus Prime broke off from the battle and ventured into Cybertron's depths, hoping to find a way to stabilize Vector Sigma. This, however, would require the sacrifice of his own life if attempted without the Matrix, which was hidden somewhere on Earth, recharging. {{storylink|The Mystery of Planet Master}} Hot Rod and the Autobot Headmasters searched the Matrix out and returned to Cybertron with it, where the spirit of [[Alpha Trion]] recharged its empty shell, transforming Hot Rod back into Rodimus Prime. Optimus and Rodimus defeated the Decepticons together, but Optimus still wound up sacrificing himself to stabilize Vector Sigma, leaving Rodimus Prime in command of the Autobots once again. {{storylink|Birth of the Fantastic Double Prime}}

[[File:DoubleConvoy1.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.22|"Race ya to the Matrix!" "Yer on!"]]
Rodimus Prime chose to oversee Autobot operations largely from Athenia, leaving Earth as Ultra Magnus and Metroplex's jurisdiction, and maintaining a relatively minor presence on Cybertron itself. One of his actions as returning leader was to oversee the resurrection of [[Blaster (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Blaster]], who gave his life during the recent search for the Matrix. He had [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress]] employ [[Master (planet)|Master]] technology to revive the communications expert in a new body as Twincast. {{storylink|The Great Cassette Operation}} After Fortress and the Headmasters ran into trouble on the planet [[Beast (planet)|Beast]], Rodimus Prime brought the [[Trainbot]]s and [[Monsterbot (G1)|Monsterbot]]s with him as reinforcements to foil Galvatron's plans. {{storylink|Rebellion on Planet Beast}} He also oversaw the Autobots' efforts to defeat a [[Metamorphose|metal-warping meteorite]], and encouraged Daniel to be courageous enough to help the Autobots against the metal-sensitive menace. {{storylink|Approach of the Demon Meteorite}}

One day, Rodimus Prime accompanied Ultra Magnus to an energy research laboratory, where a new power source had supposedly been discovered. Upon arrival, however, they discovered the research team had been killed and no new power source existed. Reviewing the tape announcing the discovery, Rodimus realized the broadcasting scientist was actually under the control of [[Mindwipe (G1)|Mindwipe]], and the whole trip was to get him out of the way so that Scorponok could set a trap for the Headmasters on [[Praum]]. Taking the Trainbots, Rodimus Prime arrived on Praum in time to help the Headmasters chase off Galvatron and their evil counterparts. {{storylink|The Four-Million-Year-Old Veil of Mystery}} Rodimus Prime soon supervised the Autobots during a series of terrorist threats around the globe. He allowed [[Shouki]] and the Trainbots to take first crack at the robot threatening their homeland of Japan. {{storylink|Terror! The Six Shadows}}

[[File:Hm10 fortress appointed commander.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|"Don't worry, all you have to do to be a better leader than me is to ''not get the planet blown up.''"]]
When Vector Sigma created a new kind of super-metal known as [[Cybertonuron]], Rodimus Prime realized it would be a tempting target for the Decepticons. Sure enough, Galvatron soon launched an all-out attack on Cybertron to capture Vector Sigma and the Cybertonuron. Rodimus assembled a massive counterstrike force to transport to Cybertron, but Fortress cautioned that the whole ordeal thus far might be a trap. Rodimus recognized the possibility, but stated the idea of Galvatron controlling the Cybertonuron was too dangerous to risk. Rodimus Prime traveled to Cybertron himself aboard the [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Battleship Maximus]], and engaged Galvatron in hand-to-hand combat. Tragically, Rodimus was soundly defeated by his old foe, and would have been helplessly executed by Galvatron if [[Soundwave (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Soundblaster]] hadn't insisted on giving his leader an office memo Right. That. Minute. TPS reports wait for no 'bot. {{storylink|Cybertron Is in Grave Danger, Part 1}} As the fighting continued to escalate, [[Scorponok (G1)|Scorponok]] decided it was too dangerous to risk the Autobots keeping control of the Cybertonuron. He had Mindwipe and the Headmasters plant a series of bombs at Cybertron core, resulting in a massive planetary explosion, leaving Cybertron a burnt-out husk. Deciding that his time was over, and that newer, younger Transformers should take over, Rodimus passed leadership of the Autobots to [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress]], and departed for space with Kup and [[Blurr (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Blurr]] to search for a new planet that the Transformers could make their own. Arcee asked if she could go, too, but Rodimus instructed her to stay behind to look after Daniel and Wheelie. {{storylink|Cybertron Is in Grave Danger, Part 2}}

===''Super-God Masterforce'' cartoon===
Archive footage of Rodimus Prime and many other Autobots engaging the Decepticons in a space battle was used to educate the [[Headmaster Junior]]s on the history of the Transformer conflict. {{storylink|Birth! Headmaster Jrs}}

===''United EX''===
Rodimus Prime trained a young Autobot codenamed [[Rapido|Racemaster]], teaching him a lesson he himself had learned during the whole Ultimate Weapon business: that the strongest weapon is a sharp mind. In honor of his teacher, Racemaster wore a red and yellow paint job with flames on his hood. {{storylink|Weapons of a New Generation}}

===''Legends'' comic===
[[File:TFLegends19 micro transformers and rodimus.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.75|"Friends, robots, cybermen..."]]
In the years following his departure from command, Rodimus reverted to his Hot Rod identity and adopted a new [[Micromaster]] body, becoming leader of the Micromasters. He led his people to a new planet, which they named [[Micro]], and founded a new Micromaster civilization. {{storylink|Transformers 2015 Tailgate/G1 Mini-Con Chapter|Tailgate/G1 Mini-Con Chapter}} He invited Blurr to join him, but Blurr couldn't bring himself to become a Micromaster and left Hot Rod's side. {{storylink|LG25 Blurr}} Kup also left him after being traumatized by a Sharkticon they encountered while settling Micro. {{storylink|LG46 Targetmaster Kup}}

In [[2021]], Hot Rod left Micro and joined his old partner Shaoshao Li on a [[Universal Peace Alliance]] mission to recover the [[Targetmaster (technology)|Targetmasters]] lost in the [[Legends World]]. {{storylink|LG45 Targetmaster Hot Rod}} He converted from Micromaster to [[Headmaster (technology)|Headmaster]] in order to blend in with the many Headmasters living in that dimension, though he lacked a [[transtector]] of his own. {{storylink|Targetmaster Chapter Prologue}} Ever optimistic, he figured things would work themselves out and went [[fishing]], and was soon proven right when he fished up a Sharkticon that led them to Scourge's Sweeps, who were in possession of [[Blowpipe (G1)|Blowpipe]]. With some help from Grimlock, Hot Rod and Shaoshao captured the Sweeps and were offered jobs by the local police as thanks. {{storylink|LG44 Sharkticon}} Granted a transtector by the police force, Hot Rod used it to confront Scourge, who was using Blowpipe to clone himself and cause trouble. Scourge responded by creating evil clones of Hot Rod as well, but he defeated the villains using Shaoshao's own Targetmaster mode and successfully captured Blowpipe. {{storylink|LG45 Targetmaster Hot Rod}}

Hot Rod and Shaoshao recaptured Blowpipe after he was stolen away by [[Kickback (G1)|Kickback]], {{storylink|LG47 Kickback}} but couldn't contain the Targetmaster for long because of his [[plasma energy]] emissions. Hot Rod sought the help of the only person immune to Blowpipe's powers, his partner [[Triggerhappy (G1)|Triggerhappy]], and reluctantly inducted him into the police force after he succeeded. {{storylink|LG49 Targetmaster Triggerhappy}} The duo next investigated [[Misfire (G1)|Misfire]], discovering that his partner [[Aimless]] had developed the power to manipulate time. Misfire caught them snooping and tried to use this power against Hot Rod, but failed thanks to his poor aim and instead hit Shaoshao, reverting her age. Hot Rod promptly defeated him, captured Aimless and had him fix Shaoshao, though not before Misfire blasted Hot Rod by accident and temporarily transformed him back into Rodimus Prime. {{storylink|LG52 Targetmaster Misfire}}

When Blurr came to the police looking to report the missing [[White Lune]], Hot Rod recognized his speech pattern and was overjoyed to be reunited with his old pal. The search led to another happy reunion when they ran into Kup, and together the trio used their respective Targetmaster partners to save White Lune from the Sweeps. {{storylink|TF Legends Late Xmas Present Chapter|Late Xmas Present Chapter}} Hot Rod was then among [[Slugslinger (G1)|Slugslinger]]'s victims when he attacked all Transformers using [[anti-electron]]s. {{storylink|LG55 Targetmaster Slugslinger}} {{storylink|Slugslinger's Ambition}} and huddled behind [[Trailbreaker (G1)|Trailbreaker]]'s force field when the mutant Autobot Targetmasters went on a rampage. {{storylink|LG62 Targetmaster Windblade}} Following another attack on the city, he cheered when [[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]] used the [[Zodiac]] to repair the damage. {{storylink|LG66 Targetmaster Topspin}} Hot Rod and Shaoshao later interrogated the captive [[Devil Z]], but could do little to stop him from breaking out of jail once he was done talking. {{storylink|LG-EX Grand Maximus}}

Once they'd recovered all the Targetmasters, Hot Rod and Shaoshao handed them over to Perceptor so he could cleanse them of their plasma energy. {{storylink|Targetmaster Chapter Finale: Legends World in Imminent Danger! Part One|Legends World in Imminent Danger! Part One}} During the battle with Scorponok's [[Majin Zarak]], Hot Rod and his old friends made up "2010 Team", one of the many groups that helped blast the beast through a dimensional portal. When Scorponok's machinations led to the destruction of the Legends World immediately afterward, all the Transformers returned to their own dimension. {{storylink|Targetmaster Chapter Finale: Legends World in Imminent Danger! Part Two|Legends World in Imminent Danger! Part Two}} Hot Rod and everyone else from his era arrived on [[Beast (planet)|Beast]] in [[2023]], where they helped end the war between the [[Beastformer (species)|Beastformers]] and [[Laser Beast]]s. {{storylink|The Road to Legends' Revival Chapter 1}}

Sometime in the [[2030]]s, a past-his-prime Springer traversed time and space to find himself in the Legends World prior to Hot Rod's arrival. Upon arriving, he regaled the locals with stories of his adventures with Rodimus Prime (whom he egotistically characterized as an inconsequential background character). {{storylink|LG19 Springer Prologue}} In [[2038]], Hot Rod was on Cybertron when [[Violengiguar]] attacked Optimus Prime and stole the Zodiac. {{storylink|The Road to Legends' Revival Chapter 2}}

===''The Battlestars''===
Micromaster Hot Rod returned to Optimus Prime's side when Prime was resurrected as [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity#The Battlestars story pages and comic|Star Convoy]], taking up residence in Star Convoy's chest and boosting his Supreme Commander's power.

===''Regeneration One''===
[[File:RG1 93 rodimii.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.4|Micromaster Hot Rod is the micro one]]
An alternate timeline's [[Hot Rod (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Hot Rod]] traveled to the [[Primus]] chamber at the center of [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] with the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobots]], where he had a vision of all the various Hot Rods and Rodimuses across the [[multiverse]], including a Micromaster Hot Rod. {{storylink|Destiny, Part Three}} After the alternate Hot Rod got hold of the [[Matrix of Leadership|Matrix]] and became Rodimus Prime he used the [[Covenant of Primus]] to infiltrate [[Zero Space]] and confront the Dark Matrix creature, which summoned three versions of [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Optimus Prime]] to defend itself. Rodimus Prime then likewise sent ripples throughout the multiverse, bringing forth multiple versions of himself to battle the Dark Matrix creature. Having loosened its control over Optimus, the other Hot Rods allowed Rodimus Prime to seal the multiversal breach with the [[Sword of Primus]]. {{storylink|The War to End All Wars, Part 5}}

===''15 Go! Go!''===
[[File:Hotrod-micro.jpg|thumb|left|Well, at least this girl has clothes on.]]
While Star Convoy was occupied battling the reborn Megatron, Hot Rod was busy on Earth dealing with the threat posed by [[unspace|Transwarp]] wormholes that had randomly begun appearing around the planet. During his efforts, he came upon the human computer [[Teletraan 15]], who had traveled forward in time on an information-gathering mission, and saved her from a [[Novaroid]]. Having been familiar with Hot Rod in the past, 15 was a little surprised to see him in a Micromaster form, but he brushed off her comments and accused her of being responsible for the Transwarp disturbances. The appearance of a huge wormhole overhead, however, prompted Hot Rod to set his concerns aside, transform to [[alternate mode|vehicle mode]] and carry 15 away to safety. {{storylink|Hot Rod Volume}}

Before they got very far, Star Convoy appeared and requested Hot Rod's assistance, telling him that Megatron was fusing with [[Dark Nova]]. Hot Rod said his farewells to 15, preparing to depart with his leader, {{storylink|Star Convoy Volume}} but before he could leave, he was suddenly struck by an immense blast from the wormhole overhead. The shadowy form of [[Galvatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Galvatron]] descended from the rip in the sky, and 15 leaped in front of Hot Rod to protect him but was rewarded for her heroism by having her right arm torn off by the insane Decepticon. {{storylink|Galvatron Volume}} Rescued by [[Safety]] and [[Fly-Up]] of the [[Guard City]] team, the last thing Teletraan 15 saw before passing out was Galvatron throttling Hot Rod. {{storylink|Galvatron Volume 2}} The outcome of the battle and the fate of Hot Rod were left unknown, but he had obviously left his mark on 15, whose severed arm was replaced with a convertible buzz-saw blade, just like Hot Rod's own. {{storylink|Galvatron Volume 3}}

Their time-traveling next brought them to the year 2010. There, the [[Kiss Players (singing group)|Kiss Players]] (unknowingly being manipulated by the evil [[Sparkabot]]s) invisibly approached Rodimus Prime while he was opening the Galactic Games. They took a fragment of the Allspark from him and continued on their time-spanning adventure. {{storylink|Sparkbots Volume 1}}

===e-HOBBY comics (2)===
When a [[Socialist Democratic Federated Republic of Carbombya|Carbombyan]] freighter was attacked by strange bio-engineered monsters, Hot Rod was among the Autobots assembled by Optimus Prime to investigate. {{storylink|MP-1B Cybertron Commander / Convoy Black Ver.}} They eventually discovered that the monsters were created by the Decepticons in an undersea lab. When the creatures took [[Daniel Witwicky (G1)|Black Convoy]] hostage, Hot Rod joined a team to rescue him. {{storylink|MP-3G Destron Air Commander / Starscream Ghost Ver.}}

===''Generations Selects Special Comic'' (2)===
By 2050, humanity had created a race of robots powered by [[Angolmois Energy]] known as [[Selector]]s. The Selectors were sentient, however, and rose up in rebellion. The Autobots chose to support the Selectors against humanity's control, though Rodimus tried to avoid a direct confrontation with [[Shaoshao Li]] over this. {{storylink|Volcanicus comic 2}}

The Quintessons intervened on the side of humanity and made things infinitely worse. Their abuse of Angolmois Energy caused corrupted geysers of the power to erupt from the planet's core. Rodimus was caught in one of these blasts and was corrupted towards evil by the tainted Angolmois Energy. {{storylink|Abominus comic 1}} As he fought against his corrupted urges, Rodimus was comforted by Shaoshao Li, despite their earlier rift. {{storylink|Abominus comic 2}}

==''TV Magazine'' comic continuity==
===''The Story of Super Robot Lifeforms: The Transformers''===
[[File:Ep14.jpg|thumb|He's so dreeeaaaaamyyyy.]]
Rodimus Prime faced numerous bizarre challenges in the year 2010, one of which involved Galvatron attempting to seize spaceships with his ''own'' spaceship that ate ''other'' spaceships. Rodimus infiltrated the toothy craft in order to plant a bomb to destroy it. Unfortunately, Galvatron trapped him inside and beat him senseless. Rodimus was about to give up when the spirit of Optimus Prime spoke to him through the Matrix, urging him to fight on. Rodimus snapped out of it and escaped through a hole created by Galvatron's cannon. Before leaving, though, he dropped the bomb off in Cyclonus' hands, detonating the ship. {{storylink|The Story of Super Robot Lifeforms: The Transformers issue 1|The Story of Super Robot Lifeforms: The Transformers #1}}

During another adventure, Rodimus and his troops were taken under siege by a horde of Megatron clones calling themselves the [[Megatron Corps]]. The Megatron Corps made short work of Rodimus, leaving him to wonder how he could defeat a whole horde of the baddie, when Optimus Prime could barely deal with ''one''. Rodimus eventually realized that Galvatron was secretly controlling the clones and singled him out. With Galvatron defeated, the Megatron Corps ceased to function. {{storylink|The Story of Super Robot Lifeforms: The Transformers issue 2|The Story of Super Robot Lifeforms: The Transformers #2}}

Not long after that, Galvatron attacked [[Autobot City (G1)|Autobot City]] on Earth with the power of [[Trypticon (G1)|Trypticon]]. Though Trypticon was defeated by [[Six-Gun]], of all Autobots, Rodimus did not arrive on the scene until after the battle had ended. Young blonde [[human]] girls squealed at his hunkiness, though. {{storylink|The Story of Super Robot Lifeforms: The Transformers issue 3|The Story of Super Robot Lifeforms: The Transformers #3}}

During another battle, he was forced to team with his nemesis, Galvatron, to defeat the all-powerful [[Gilthor]]. Gilthor was a creation built by the [[Quintesson]]s utilizing the powers of both Optimus Prime and Megatron. Together, Rodimus and Galvatron defeated their foe (who it turned out was being controlled by the ghost of [[Starscream (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Starscream]]) and called off the truce. {{storylink|The Story of Super Robot Lifeforms: The Transformers issue 4|The Story of Super Robot Lifeforms: The Transformers #4}}

After that, Rodimus led the Autobots to the planet [[Feminia]] to protect its [[Prime Energy Tower]] from Galvatron and the Decepticons. The Autobots proved ineffectual against the might of [[Predaking (G1)|Predaking]]... at least until the [[Omnibot (G1)|Omnibots]] showed up to win the day. {{storylink|The Story of Super Robot Lifeforms: The Transformers issue 5|The Story of Super Robot Lifeforms: The Transformers #5}}

===''The Great Transformer War''===
[[File:Greattfwar rodimus.jpg|thumb|upright=1.45|left|Find out tonight on WWE: TRANSFORMERS!]]
After the [[Protectobot (G1)|Protectobot]]s rescued the scientist Doctor [[Dalton]] from the clutches of the Decepticons, Rodimus met with him to discuss upgrading the [[Technobot (G1)|Technobots]]. {{storylink|The Great Transformer War issue 1|The Great Transformer War #1}}

Rodimus then watched on in horror as the [[Terrorcon (G1)|Terrorcon]]s made short work of the upgraded Technobots and nearly turned them into Decepticons with [[Cohesive Control Liquid]]. [[Spike Witwicky (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Spike]] managed to save the Technobots and send the Decepticons into retreat, swearing vengeance. {{storylink|The Great Transformer War issue 2|The Great Transformer War #2}}

Early in [[2011]], after having given up the Matrix of Leadership and reverted to Hot Rod, he accompanied the newly resurrected Optimus Prime in a space battle against Galvatron and the Decepticons. The Decepticons fled, and though Hot Rod wished to pursue them, Optimus ordered him the return to base, as the entire battle seemed fishy. Indeed, it was all a distraction so that Galvatron could begin his ultimate invasion of Cybertron. {{storylink|The Great Transformer War issue 3|The Great Transformer War #3}}
{{--}}

===''The Headmasters'' comic===
[[File:RodimusHeadmasterManga08.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4]]
With Optimus Prime dead yet again, Hot Rod returned to being Rodimus Prime and erected a [[Optimus Prime memorial|statue]] of his fallen commander on Cybertron. During the dedication, the Decepticons were spotted approaching the planet. Rodimus dispatched the Autobot Headmasters to deal with the threat. {{storylink|The Headmasters issue 1|The Headmasters #1}}

Later, the Decepticons made a second attempt to seize planet [[Beast (planet)|Beast]] while the Autobot [[Beastformer (species)|Beastformer]] leader, [[White Leo]], was away. Rodimus Prime sent the Autobot Headmasters to Beast in order to drive back the invading Decepticons. {{storylink|The Decisive Battle of Planet Beast!}}

During his journey through space in search of a replacement homeworld for the Autobots, Rodimus faced many dangers and hardships, but was supported by the wisdom of the Matrix and the energy of the Earth that now coursed within it. Learning a new admiration for the human race and the planet Earth, he returned to Earth in the wake of the defeat of Scorponok, and reunited with the Autobots. {{storylink|The Headmasters issue 8|The Headmasters #8}}
{{--}}

==Madman ''The Transformers'' comic==
[[File:Madman comic HotRod sigh.jpg|left|upright=0.85|thumb|"You're gonna be the death of that guy, you know?"]]
In [[2001]], Hot Rod was on guard duty at the construction site of [[Autobot City (G1)|Autobot City]] on [[Earth]] while the main Autobot forces were evacuating from the Decepticon-conquered [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]. As he was complaining about his boring assignment to [[Spike Witwicky (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Spike Witwicky]], the Decepticon [[Soundwave (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Soundwave]] struck, intent on stealing the [[Matrix of Leadership|Autobot Matrix of Leadership]] which Optimus Prime had secreted in a bunker at the building site. When he reclaimed the Matrix, Hot Rod received a vision of the future where he fought [[Galvatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|a powerful Decepticon]]. After returning the Matrix to Optimus Prime, the Autobot leader considered that perhaps Hot Rod's destiny was greater than any of them realized. [[Kup (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Kup]] thought differently, however. {{storylink|The Transformers (Madman)|The Transformers}}
{{--}}

==Rodimus vs. Cyclonus==
[[File:RodimusVsCyclonus-lostyourbearings.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|Sure, his body looks off, but it's nothing compared to the shadow he casts.]]
After Hot Rod and company left Quintessa following the Battle of Autobot City, Wheelie helped track down the remains of Ultra Magnus's ship using its last known speed and trajectory. Kup surmised from the remaining wreckage that they had disengaged the nosecone and set down on the [[Junkion (planet)|Planet of Junk]] for repairs. Hot Rod's ship was then attacked by Cyclonus. Hot Rod, inspired by a flash of ancient knowledge during his brief contact with the Matrix during its passing to Ultra Magnus, invoked the [[Challenge of Aria-Bellum]] with Cyclonus. Cyclonus accepted, and the two faced off in the ship's anterior propulsion silo. Kup was surprised that Hot Rod managed to hold his own in battle, despite Cyclonus's overwhelming power. When Hot Rod began winning, the dishonorable Cyclonus fled.

In the meantime, Kup, fearing for Hot Rod's life, had radioed for help to distract Cyclonus. The gambit worked, and a short time later they were welcomed on the Planet of Junk by Wreck-Gar and Ultra Magnus's crew. {{storylink|Rodimus vs. Cyclonus}}
{{--}}

==''Wings Universe''==
[[File:WingsOfHonor-HotRod.jpg|thumb|left|upright=0.75]]
In the year [[2009]], Hot Rod, Kup, and the Dinobots experienced ''déja vu'' all over again when a horde of Decepticons attacked their shuttle. Cyclonus, Scourge, and 35 of his Sweeps chased them into a nebula where the Autobots lay low to finish repairs. When the boarding party finally found them, Kup's experience helped Hot Rod and the others drive off their attackers. {{Storylink|Wings of Honor}}

At some point, Hot Rod took the name Rodimus Major and joined the [[Wreckers]]. He died and the ''[[Rodimus Major]]'' was later named in his honor. {{storylink|Tornado - Decepticon Saboteur|Apelinq's personal logs}}

Unaware that Rodimus had passed on, the pirate captain [[Cannonball (G1)|Cannonball]] imagined that the Autobot would bear witness to his plundering of Cybertron. Since Cybertron had become a techno-organic planet by 2984, the plundering part didn't happen either. {{storylink|Hoist the Flag}}
{{--}}

==Ask Vector Prime==
In a universe where [[Primax]] and [[Gargent]] realities were merged on the eve of [[The Transformers: The Movie|events of cosmic significance]], Hot Rod was enjoying a relaxing day [[fishing]] with [[Nick Burns]] when they discovered at the last minute that [[Cy-Kill (GoBots)|Cy-Kill]] was about to unleash an ambush on Autobot City. He fired on the compromised Command Center, briefly battled [[Destroyer (GoBots)|Destroyer]] and [[Fly Trap]] and made for the safety of the city with Kup.

After the battle, he, Kup, and the Dinobots fled the advance of Galvatron and his minions, [[Fracture (Movie)|Fracture]] and [[Deadlift]] only to have his Command Center shot down over [[Antares 3|Antares III]]. He battled the Master Renegade's Monster GoBot forces with the help of the [[RoGun]]s, commandeering his ship to make his way to [[Major Mo]] and the other Autobots and [[Guardian (GoBots)|Guardians]] stranded on [[Quartex (planet)|Quartex]]. They made an alliance with some friendly [[Rock Lord]]s there and beat back an attack by hostile Rock Lords.

The Autobots, Guardians, RoGuns, and Rock Lords made their way to Cybertron, where they battled Unicron. Hot Rod found himself battling with Galvatron. He found himself unable to open the Guardian Matrix of Leadership, until [[Vector Prime]] fixed reality and restored the Matrix to its normal state. He opened the Matrix, evolved into Rodimus Prime, defeated Galvatron, and prepared to usher in a new era of Autobot hegemony. {{storylink|Echoes and Fragments}}

==''Timelines''==
In [[Primax 1086.01 Alpha]], Optimus Prime's corpse was vaporized in a Quintesson plot. Perhaps because Optimus's essence was more firmly integrated into the Matrix of Leadership, Scourge defeated Hot Rod and retained possession of the Matrix. {{storylink|Rook - Axiom Nexus News: Investigative Journalist|Rook - Axiom Nexus News, 2016/02/07}}

==''Deviations''==
[[File:TF-Deviations-Kup-slaps-Hot-Rod.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|Pretty cathartic, don't you say?]]
In an alternate universe, Kup tackled Hot Rod to the ground to prevent him from interfering with Optimus's battle against Megatron. As a result, the Autobot leader gained the upper hand and executed his longtime foe. In the aftermath, Hot Rod got chewed out by Ultra Magnus for his thoughts on the Decepticon retreat, and then got smacked by Kup for criticizing the Matrix of Leadership. Optimus assigned Hot Rod to Magnus's ship as the Autobots made preparations to evacuate, a decision which didn't please either of the Autobots.

En route to Moonbase Two, Hot Rod began experiencing strange dreams of Optimus dying. Magnus overheard his comments to Daniel and interpreted these visions as a sign of treachery. Before he could act the convoy came under attack by Megascream, the newly upgraded form of Starscream. Hot Rod suggested that they reverse the engines so that the Decepticons would overshoot them, although Perceptor shot down his idea. Hot Rod went ahead and did it anyway after an explosion took Perceptor out of commission. The plan failed and their engines burnt out, pushing their ships into a remote sector. Magnus ordered Hot Rod and Daniel into the last escape pod, which took them down onto the planet Junk shortly before the ship exploded.

Hot Rod moped around for a while, feeling responsible for the deaths of his friends, before Daniel reminded him of his earlier words about the Matrix. Shortly afterwards, Optimus found the two of them, and before long they had returned to Moonbase Two, just in time to prevent Unicron's final attack on the planet. When Optimus Prime headed out to confront Megascream, Hot Rod–still feeling the call of the Matrix–stowed away on Prime's shuttle. He broke cover and intervened in the fight after Megascream–now a monstrous combiner–crushed Prime and tried to seize the Matrix for himself. Slipping a [[teleport disc]] onto his leader, Hot Rod spirited Prime back to safety and then, with the last of his strength, opened the Matrix, destroying Megascream, Unicron, and himself.

In the aftermath, Optimus Prime commended Rodimus Prime, who had joined Alpha Trion and the other heroes of Cybertron in the Matrix. {{storylink|Transformers: Deviations|Deviations}}

==Notes==
* Voice actor Ted Schwartz was originally cast to succeed Judd Nelson as the voice of Rodimus Prime for the third season of the animated series, but was subsequently replaced by [[Dick Gautier]]. Before his replacement, however, Schwartz recorded Rodimus's lines for several episodes (most likely all five parts of "[[Five Faces of Darkness]]"), and although Gautier re-recorded the dialogue, technical oversight led to some of Schwartz's readings making it into the finished episodes. He can be heard delivering all of Rodimus's lines in the recap for [[Five Faces of Darkness, Part 1|part 1]] that plays at the beginning of [[Five Faces of Darkness, Part 2|part 2]], and speaking one line during the scene on [[Goo Number 8739-B]] in [[Five Faces of Darkness, Part 3|part 3]].
* At [[BotCon 2002]], Dick Gautier "confirmed", jokingly, that Rodimus Prime is gay.
* In ''[[Transformers: The Headmasters (cartoon)|The Headmasters]]'' cartoon, before regaining the [[Matrix of Leadership|Matrix]], '''Hot Rodimus''' (Hot Rod's name in Japanese continuity) notably lacks the "Hot" whenever he is referred to by name; being simply called "'''Rodimus'''" (''Rodimasu'') by everyone around him. "Rodimus" as a shortened name is usually given to '''Rodimus Convoy''' (the Japanese name of Rodimus Prime), which is how the name is generally shortened for Western audiences too. Whether this is an intentional in-universe name change, or just done for simplicity's sake to help the audience keep track of the character before and after regaining the Matrix, is uncertain.

===Character models===
[[File:G1-Hot-Rod-and-Rodimus-model-comparison.jpg|thumb|upright=2.2]]

* Like the rest of the [[1986]] movie's original characters, Hot Rod and Rodimus Prime had early designs by [[Floro Dery]] which the toys were based on, and then final models were drawn from the finished toys. The models that were used in ''[[The Transformers Universe (Marvel)|The Transformers Universe]]'' profile books and subsequent [[Marvel Comics|Marvel]] comics had them using their pre-final models.

* There are a total of at least four known Hot Rod [[character model]]s and four known Rodimus Prime models.
: Hot Rod's models include:
# A smaller, more simplified version of Rodimus's first model by Floro Dery.
# The same body but with a different head. This would also end up being the version published in the Marvel comics.
# [[Toei Animation|Toei]]'s pre-final model. This one features the sleeker design that would eventually be used in the movie. This one also features a slightly wider head design and places the Autobot insignia on his collar like Dery's original Rodimus and Hot Rod models. This one can also be seen in the 1986 [[Autobot Cars]] toy commercials that introduced [[Kup (G1)|Kup]], [[Blurr (G1)|Blurr]] and of course, Hot Rod. The colors of this Hot Rod model are the same as the final model. As noted in the image to the right, the vehicle mode art and color model for this revision of Hot Rod have yet to surface.
# Toei's final model.

: Rodimus Prime's models are where things start to get a little complicated:
# The first is by Floro Dery and is a larger version of Hot Rod's first model (also drawn by Dery). This one notably carries the bulk of the "[[Mobile Defense Bay|trailer]]" on his back, while also including additional [[kibble]] on the back of his forearms.
# The second is a massively refined version of the previous one, featuring a new head, shifting the Autobot insignia into the center of the flames, broadens the upper torso, and simplifies most of the original model's details. This is his pre-final model and has been utilized in [[The Ark series|''The Ark'' series]] books, the ''[[Transformers Generations (guidebook)|Generations]]'' guidebook, several other [[Japan]]ese cartoon guidebooks that were released at the time of the cartoon, and was also used in the Marvel comics and [[:File:StarscreamsGhost Rodimus waves goodbye.JPG|various]] [[:File:Quintessonjournal diplomacy.jpg|moments]] of episodes animated by [[AKOM]], [[Sam Young Studio]] and any [[Unknown Generation 1 animation studios#Season 3|other unknown studios]] in season 3. This model features a darker burgundy coloration on his lower torso/pelvis and picks out the windscreen details on his crotch in light gray, distinguishing it from the rest.
# Rodimus's final model is a head. Yup, just a head, that's it. No body, ''juuuust'' a head. In all seriousness though, the animators were just instructed to [[:File:Final-Rodimus-model-sheet-compilation.jpg|replace Hot Rod's head with Rodimus's]], meaning that both Rodimus and Hot Rod share the ''exact'' same body, with only the head, the size and the color scheme to distinguish the two from each other. This color scheme is the same as the first Rodimus model, with the only difference being that it follows the layout of Hot Rod's final model (e.g. yellow spoiler instead of red). It should also be noted that due to multiple animators and animation studios working on the 1986 movie, Rodimus kept Hot Rod's color scheme. Likewise, episodes of season 3 would often depict Hot Rod in Rodimus's color scheme.
# But wait a minute, if the previous one was the ''final'' model, then why are there ''four''? Well, that's because this one was never used in the US cartoon; instead this one was used in ''[[Transformers: The Headmasters (cartoon)|The Headmasters]]'' cartoon. This was likely done due to the lack of any ''real'' model for Rodimus—a character which appears more often than his younger form, Hot Rod—eliminating all the extra steps that have to be taken just to draw the dang character. Going solely off of the cartoon, this one appears to remain in the same colors as Rodimus's final model, but changes a few details to match the art style that the [[Japanese Generation 1 cartoon continuity]] would adopt from here on out. As such, Rodimus gains some new arms, with refined forearm pipes, the wheels shifted to the front of his upper arms (much like his Generation 1 toy) and squared hands, as opposed to the rounder hands that Floro Dery was known to use. Rodimus also gains yet ''another'' new head design, this time featuring some stylistic "eyeliner" and a taller head crest. This model's entire back view had also been redesigned squaring up the spoiler on his back and adding some new greebles for added flare. This model also notably lacks the square detail on the pelvis of the final Hot Rod and Rodimus models.

* Known to be "cheap" with their animation and having access to what appears to ''only'' be out of date model sheets, AKOM would often use the second Rodimus models' color scheme on both Rodimus and Hot Rod throughout season 3 and the entirety of "[[The Rebirth]]", thus leading to multiple episodes where both characters would have a windscreen-colored crotch. On some occasions, AKOM (or another studio) would also place Rodimus's pre-final model's head on Hot Rod's body as Rodimus, instead of the final head design.
* As stated above, Rodimus never actually received a proper final model for the movie and season 3 of the cartoon, he was always meant to just be a bigger Hot Rod with an older face. Any inconsistencies in the cartoon—such as scenes where Hot Rod has Rodimus's colors or head—were most likely all down to this one issue. This also means that Rodimus has some additional wheel kibble on his robot mode arms, that doesn't match up with the way his transformation works.
* Rodimus Prime's differing design used in ''The Headmasters'' was given an in-universe explanation by [[Hayato Sakamoto]] during a presentation and interview at [[BotCon 2016]]. Sakamoto explained that when [[Alpha Trion]] sacrificed himself to recharge the [[Matrix of Leadership]] in the [[Birth of the Fantastic Double Prime|third episode]] of the cartoon, the Matrix itself was changed, giving an all-new appearance to Rodimus, when compared to the "old Matrix".<ref>"In the episode 3 of The Headmasters, Alpha Trion sacrifices himself to become the contents of the now-empty Matrix. In Japan, the Matrix is thought to be an energy source which draws its energy from a culmination of experience and knowledge by former leaders who carried the Matrix. The idea behind Alpha Trion recharging the Matrix was that Alpha Trion being the oldest Transformer in the original cartoon universe had seen and known all these leaders, and thus had experience and knowledge of all these leaders. And so thus his presence could recharge the Matrix once again. And one thing that shows how the Matrix changed with Alpha Trion recharging it is how Rodimus Prime’s design changed by the new Matrix." - [https://www.seibertron.com/energonpub/my-japanese-g1-continuity-talk-with-hayato-sakamoto-at-botcon-2016-t106801.php#p1791912 My Japanese G1 Continuity Talk with Hayato Sakamoto at BotCon 2016] (Seibertron.com)</ref>

===Transformation scheme===
[[File:FaceOfNijika Rodimus Prime Car Mode.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1|The Car Mode of the Nijika]]
*Hot Rod does not transform the same way twice in the ''The Transformers: The Movie''. The reason for this appears to be down to him having more than one transformation reference; one depicting a different angle each time, likely to support any dynamic transformations used in the film, such as the one at the beginning of the film where he catches Daniel Witwicky, before placing him inside his passenger seat mid-transformation. The result of several references being used seems to have made for a little bit of confusion on the animators' part, as the higher angle references show where parts of his vehicle mode, like his windshield go, while lower angles don't show this at all, leading to a little bit of improvisation being used.<ref>{{citesocial|quote=Some rare model sheets from the Transformers movie. This set includes rough animation keys of Hot Rod's transformation from 2 angles. And some of Arcee's special poses. I did not draw these. They were from Toei. Only sharing.|link=https://www.instagram.com/p/CYZiM-mPuFT/|name=Peter Chung|site=Instagram|year=2022|month=01|day=07}}</ref>
*The transformation scheme given to Rodimus's second model (the pre-final model) would also be used by both Toei and AKOM in the cartoon, even though the design is entirely different, this would often lead to moments in the cartoon where he appears in an older body for short periods after transforming.
* Rodimus Prime's transformation in the cartoon was inconsistent - at some points, the trailer was shown to be part of his main body, while at in at least one episode {{storylink|The Face of the Nijika}}, he was shown to have a car mode (similar to, but distinct from, his Hot Rod vehicle mode) which the trailer surrounded.
*The model used for ''The Headmasters'' also revised his entire transformation scheme. Rodimus instead followed the same transformation as his Generation 1 toy, going from a face-flat robot whose legs slide under the trailer, with the bulk of his transformation residing in his upper body/cab section.

==References==
{{Reflist}}

[[Category:Autobot leaders]]
[[Category:Cloud Autobots]]
[[Category:Convoys]]
[[Category:Generation 1 cartoon Autobots]]
[[Category:Generations Selects Autobots]]
[[Category:Headmasters]]
[[Category:Kiss Players Autobots]]
[[Category:Legends Autobots]]
[[Category:Matrix bearers]]
[[Category:Micromasters]]
[[Category:Primes]]
[[Category:Regeneration One Autobots]]
[[Category:Return of Convoy Autobots]]
[[Category:Rulers of Cybertron]]
[[Category:Second Cybertron Alliance]]
[[Category:Targetmasters]]
[[Category:The Headmasters Autobots]]
[[Category:United Autobots]]
[[Category:Wings Universe Autobots]]
[[Category:Wreckers]]

The Face of the Nijika

2026-05-05T13:17:38Z

Hello Goodbye: /* Trivia */

{{episode
|series=G1toon
|ep=92
|series2=2010
|ep2=27
|prev2=Call of the Primitives
|next2=The Burden Hardest to Bear
|image=FaceOfNijika Katsu Don Nijika.jpg
|caption=Usually, women don't need help putting their face on.
|title="The Face of the Nijika"
|season=3
|season ep=27
|production code=700-113
|airdate=[[November 20]], 1986
|written by=[[Mary Skrenes]] and [[Steve Skeates]]
|production company=[[Sunbow Productions]]
|animation studio=[[AKOM]], [[Sam Young Studio]]
|continuity=[[Generation 1 cartoon continuity]]
|video=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVrI8N20gpE
|videosite=YouTube
}}

'''The Autobots discover a race of aliens who have also experienced persecution from the Quintessons.'''

==Synopsis==
[[File:FaceOfNijika Galvatron lock.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|Little pig, little pig, let me in!]]

[[Sky Lynx (G1)|Sky Lynx]], who is carrying [[Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Rodimus Prime]], [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ultra Magnus]], [[Blurr (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Blurr]], and [[Perceptor (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Perceptor]], detects a disturbance nearby and discovers [[Galvatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Galvatron]] bashing on some strange disk. They also detect a [[Quintesson]] [[Quintesson spacecraft|ship]] heading for that same location. Perceptor speculates that the Quintessons don't want Galvatron meddling with the disk, so Rodimus decides to meddle with the [[Decepticon]]s and the Quintessons.

At the disk, Galvatron continues bashing away, taking a moment to bash [[Cyclonus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Cyclonus]] when he warns the [[Decepticon leader]] that the Quintessons are approaching. The Quintessons fire at Galvatron and are thankful that the [[quadrant lock]] is not damaged. However, the [[Autobot]]s then arrive. The Quintessons refuse to let the Autobots learn anything about the lock...unless, say, they learn from the other side. Opening the lock, the Quintessons drive their ship through, taking Rodimus, Magnus, Blurr, and Perceptor with them. Unwilling to let the Autobots learn its secrets, Galvatron throws Cyclonus at them so he is also drawn through the lock, which closes. Unfortunately for the Quintessons, their [[isolator key]] has been damaged, and it is the only thing that can open the quadrant lock. However, Perceptor has a [[universal emulator]], which could serve as a replacement.

Falling into the gravity well of the nearby planet [[Zamojin (planet)|Zamojin]], Perceptor announces that he is suffering from [[transformation]] [[Transformation paralysis|paralysis]], and is stuck in [[Alternate mode|microscope mode]]. However, the other Autobots do not respond. On the planet, members of a primitive, humanoid civilization see their descent. One man declares that the "[[Quintesson|devils]]" have returned, leading an angry mob out of [[Tozin|their city]]. However, a blacksmith outside the city sees them and goes to investigate astride his mount, [[Bruta Lo]], and recovers Perceptor. Meanwhile, the Autobots are not doing so well after their crash-landing. Rodimus and Magnus hit the trees, which are as hard as rocks, while Blurr hit an actual rock and is so injured he cannot walk. Rodimus tells him to lean on "fearless [[Prime (rank)|leader]]", while Magnus wonders where Perceptor crashed.

At his hut, the blacksmith removes Perceptor's [[insignia]], which also contains his universal emulator. Having tracked Perceptor's descent, the Quintessons dispatch a pair of [[Sharkticon (species)|Sharkticons]] to retrieve the scientist, but someone follows them. The blacksmith places Perceptor's insignia on a small, female robot called [[Nijika]]. The Sharkticons arrive, but the blacksmith fights them off, damaging their armor with his bare hands. (Holy [[Slag (slang)|slag]]!) Meanwhile, Perceptor, having taken control of Nijika, asks the blacksmith, named [[Katsu Don]], what is going on. Perceptor learns that the [[Zamojin (species)|Zamojin]] were once advanced and that they had developed interstellar travel, protected by the guardian [[Kodu Ri]]. Katsu Don's ancestor, [[Niko Don]], built Nijika as an exploration drone, hoping to make contact with other races. However, the Quintessons attacked, damaging Kodu Ri and Nijika, then sealed them with the quadrant lock, which blacked out the stars. The Zamojin were reduced from technologically advanced to primitive within a very short amount of time and have been that way since. Perceptor concludes that something about the Zamojin terrified the Quintessons so much that they locked them in this part of space, and now he and Katsu Don need to warn the latter's people that the Quintessons have returned.

[[File:FaceOfNijika Magnus Rodimus.jpg|upright=1.1|thumb|"Damn it, I can't find any sign of the Quints, Rodimus!" "Uh, Magnus...never mind."]]

Elsewhere, Rodimus, Magnus, and Blurr are moving, but the injured Blurr is slowing them down. (That's a turnaround.) Blurr tells them to leave him and find Perceptor, as only he can repair Blurr. Though not happy, they agree. This proves a mistake, for moments later, a band of warriors finds Blurr. On the Quintesson ship, the Quintessons are debating what to do. One of them will have to go to the surface, but if a single Zamojin damaged two Sharkticons, [[Furmanism|what chance do they have?]] Cyclonus appears and offers them a deal: Give Galvatron the secrets of the quadrant lock, and he will go with one of them to retrieve Perceptor. Looking for Perceptor, Rodimus and Magnus are attacked by a group of warriors but are able to drive them off. They locate Perceptor's body, but without the emulator, he is offline. Rodimus and Magnus decide to search the city.

[[File:FaceOfNijika Blurr dangling.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|Now, now, now what did I do to this time? This is not right, not right, not right I tell you! Let me down, down, down from here! I’ve heard of hanging around, but is ridiculous! Not that I mind hanging, hanging is great, great, great fun, but I never, never, never meant it literally! Hello? Help me, help me, help me anyone? I’ve done nothing, nothing, nothing to deserve this!!]]

At the city of [[Tozin]], the Zamojin are preparing to execute Blurr, dangling him over a molten pit. Just to nudge things along, Cyclonus shouts out "Burn him now!", inciting the Zamojin to lower him in. However, the [[Zamojin Empress]] commands them to stop. She reveals Perceptor/Nijika, who tries to explain the situation. However, the Quintesson shouts that the doll is possessed, putting the crowd back into a mob mentality. Realizing that the Quintesson has just endangered the tool they've worked so hard to get, Cyclonus grabs Perceptor and orders the Quintesson to bring their ship.

[[File:FaceOfNijika Quintesson Nijika.jpg|upright=1.1|thumb|Not now, I'm watching the game!]]

Katsu Don grabs Cyclonus's legs as he flies off, and is carried into the Quintesson ship, where the remaining Quintesson traps him with some electrified headgear. The Quintesson orders Perceptor to hand over the emulator, or Katsu Don will die. Perceptor complies, while the other Quintesson shoots Blurr's rope, causing him to fall into the molten liquid...which he describes as a nice soak that lets him repair the bent strut that's been crippling him. Transforming, Blurr launches out of the pit and onto the Quintesson ship, with Rodimus and Magnus following. Blurr frees Katsu Don, while Magnus takes on Cyclonus. Rodimus throws Katsu Don out, while Blurr grabs the emulator and Magnus takes Cyclonus, who follows after the Quintessons.

The Zamojin Empress fears what the Quintessons will take this time, but Perceptor, now in his real body, says that the Quintessons are about to give the Zamojin something. The Quintesson ship passes through the quadrant lock...and it fades, revealing the stars. With the Quintessons unable to reseal the quadrant lock, the Autobots realize the Zamojin's technology is telepathic in nature and powered by starlight. The intelligence of the Zamojin advances rapidly, and they repair Kodu Ri. As Sky Lynx lands, Perceptor asks Katsu Don if he will continue his ancestor's research. Katsu Don vows that Perceptor will meet Nijika again...out among the stars.
{{-}}

==Featured Characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
* [[Sky Lynx (G1)|Sky Lynx]] (1)
* [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ultra Magnus]] (2)
* [[Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Rodimus Prime]] (3)
* [[Blurr (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Blurr]] (4)
* [[Perceptor (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Perceptor]] (5)

|c2=
* [[Galvatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Galvatron]] (6)
* [[Cyclonus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Cyclonus]] (7)

|c4=
* [[Quintesson]]s (8)
* [[Sharkticon (species)|Sharkticons]] (9)
* [[Allicon]] (10)
* [[Katsu Don]] (11)
* [[Zamojin Empress]] (past) (12)
* [[Niko Don]] (13)
* [[Bruta Lo]] (14)
* [[Nijika]] (15)
* [[Zamojin Empress]] (present) (16)
}}

==Notable quotes==
"Put yourself in idle, Blurr."
:—'''Rodimus Prime''', saying what we're all thinking.

"It's mine! I found it! Don't let them steal it!" 
"Mighty Galvatron, you-" 
"STOP THEM!" ''[throws Cyclonus]''
:—'''Galvatron''' demonstrates his leadership skills on '''Cyclonus'''.

"Great, so leave, beat it, amscray, split, depart, vamos, evaporate, move it, sayonara, do svidanya, goodbye! ...hel-lo?"
:—'''Blurr''' encourages Rodimus and Magnus to get moving... then meets some of the locals.

"We will be back, demons! You will not live to see the dawn!!!" 
"Yeah yeah, sure sure."
:— the '''Zamojins''' just don't impress '''Rodimus''' at all.

'''Cyclonus''': Burn him now! 
'''Quintesson''': Be silent! Don't call attention to us! 
'''Cyclonus''': VEEENNGEANNNNCE NOOOOOOOW! 
''[The crowd starts to cheer]'' 
'''Female Zamojin''': Yes! The devils must pay! They stole the stars in the sky! 
'''Male Zamojin''': They stole the light from our minds! 
'''Cyclonus''': Hahahaha. You've never understood mob psychology, have you?
:—Cyclonus must be an {{w|Bedivere#Modern depictions|Bedivere}} on dealing with witches.

"Hood in place, wheels in place, bumpers in place, engine hot, I'M OUTTA HERE!"
:—'''Blurr''' feels much better after a bath. Also, he seems to think he has wheels?

==Notes==
===Production information===
* Final script: 19th September 1986

===Continuity notes===
[[File:FaceOfNijika Autobots exit Sky-Lynx.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1|URRRRRRRRRP]]
* Sky Lynx transforms to robot mode and the Autobots exit by flying out through his mouth!
* Perceptor is equipped with a "[[universal emulator]]", which can, at the very least, mimic the function of the Quintessons' isolator key. It is presumably responsible for letting Perceptor take control of the Nijika construct and maybe the reason why his Autobot insignia morphs into Nijika's face.
* Perceptor reacts to his predicament with a "What in the name of [[Alpha Trion]]?"
* Blurr speaks at more-or-less normal speed several times in this episode.
* This episode marks the last appearance of Perceptor in the western cartoon.
* The "laughing" Quintesson face's voice is especially nasal and humorously over exaggerated in this episode.

===Real-world references===
[[File:FaceOfNijika Katsu don.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1]]
[[File:FaceOfNijika Kodu Ri.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1]]
* The character and set designs of the Zamojins are loosely based on some aspects of ancient East Asian culture - from their clothes, architecture, and [[Buddha]]-esque guardian to their harsh mountain climate. Katsu Don is generically patterned after a Chinese warrior, whereas Nijika's dress is a combination of a ''kosode, uchikake, and obi'' and she wears ''{{w|kumadori}}''-like makeup.
* Some of their nomenclature seems to be closely related to the Japanese language as well.
**The name "Zamojin" appears to use the Japanese suffix ''"-jin,"'' meaning "people or person from (x)."
**"Katsu Don" may or may not be a play on the Japanese pork-cutlet and rice dish [[w:Katsudon|katsudon]].
**Nijika is an actual Japanese girls' name. It can be written in a dozen different ways and its meaning is therefore up to debate.
* ''[[Star Wars (franchise)|Star Wars]]'' references:
** [[TIE Fighter]] roar as Blurr flies up to the Quintesson ship.

===Animation and technical errors===
* An AKOM episode, so watch for color model oddities, including:
**Rodimus and Galvatron are both consistently colored using outdated color models; Rodimus's shoulder indentations are red instead of white, his pelvis-windshield details are white instead of light burgundy, and his gun is red instead of black, while Galvatron has pale purple "underpants."
** The inside of Magnus' mouth is red.
** The inside of Blurr's mouth is blue.
** Cyclonus has purple eyebrows and a purple neck.
* In the first shot of Sky Lynx's display, the bottom of the image is clipped over the frame of the screen.
[[File:FaceNijika-Rodimustruck.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1]]
* Coloring errors:
** Perceptor's face is light blue instead of light gray as Blurr reacts to Galvatron's first appearance.
** When the Quintesson ship arrives in the flashback, its front section is grey instead of green.
** After the flashback, when Nijika walks towards Bruta Lo, her face is all white.
** When Rodimus and Magnus halt before the crowd of natives, Rodimus's roof is colored windshield-blue, and his windshield is colored red.
** "You will not live to see the dawn!!" - Rodimus's side windows are orange and yellow.
** More than once, Rodimus's burgundy is so dark it's verging on black.
* Cyclonus mouths Galvatron's first "GRRAHHH!" just before Galvatron slugs him.
* Galvatron is supposed to tumble away after being shot by the Quintesson ship, but freezes on the edge of the screen.
* When he exits Sky Lynx, Magnus is missing his Autobot logo.
* The red squares on Galvatron's shoulders are missing in many shots.
* Sky Lynx gets a non-standard laser sound as he blasts Galvatron and the Quintesson ship.
* "Except, perhaps, from the inside!" - the Quintesson rotates his head as if to bring the speaking face into view, but none of his mouths move.
* When the Quintesson ship moves past the Autobots into the quadrant lock, it seems mighty small.
* Magnus explains for the viewer that the lock passageway is shrinking... but the animation doesn't actually show it. In fact it's not clear at all why the Quintessons think the passage would be harmful to them at all.
* The first Zamojin to speak sees the falling Autobots and declares "Behold! Fire in the sky!" But the Autobots aren't showing any heating or burning effects at all - in fact they're floating rather gently to the ground.
* There is, somewhat obviously, no room in Nijika's head for the universal emulator to fit — but it does anyway. The universal emulator is elongated horizontally when first removed from Perceptor, but later shots show it as just a few inches thick.
* During the flashback to the original Nijika's launch, the stars show through the heads of the crowd as they cheer her along.
* Despite the culminating point of Katsu Don's story being the disappearance of the stars after the quadrant lock is activated... they don't actually disappear.
* Where's the trailer go?:
** Rodimus's trailer slides out of the frame when he transforms while rolling out-of-control down the hill. At the bottom, when he changes back, it's already down there waiting for him! It just rolls in from off-screen.
[[File:FaceOfNijika Cyclonus Quintesson crowd.jpg|right|upright=1.1|thumb|See, we didn't need those fake mustaches after all!]]
* A crowd of Zamojins gathered to watch Blurr's execution is apparently supposed to feature some of their number costumed as the hated five-faced demons and their robot servants, thus explaining why Cyclonus and the Quintesson can just stand around in the middle of the crowd that hates their kind. The animation, however, almost totally fails to convey this, having the Cybertronians tower over the largely un-costumed Zamojins, who are mostly just wearing some little face masks. Furthermore, the animation mistakenly colors the masks flesh-toned, almost completely hiding the fact they're wearing them at all.
* The crowd member's line "they stole the light from our minds" is delivered in Perceptor/Nijika's voice.
* "Your life is over, Autobot!" yells Cyclonus - but rather than shooting at Blurr, he just stands there for a moment, making some strange, faint grumbling noises. Then finally Magnus tackles him.
* Cyclonus is missing the orange shape below his chest when Magnus tackles him, and when flying back towards the Quintesson ship.
* Sky Lynx is tiny when he lands on the planet, only a tad taller than the other Autobots.

===Continuity errors===
[[File:FaceOfNijika Quint ship over Zamojin.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1|Is it a Quintesson ship? Or is it a ship belonging to the We Fly Ships That Look Just Like Quintesson Ships civilization?]]
* "Perceptor, is that a Quintesson ship?" Just how Rodimus Prime could mistake the Quintessons' unique corkscrew ships for anything else is a bit hard to understand.
* Flying Autobots:
** Sky Lynx advises his crew to "don your [[Jet pack|rocket pack]]s", and the Autobots subsequently fly out into space - however, they aren't shown actually wearing any rocket packs. Tiny invisible micro-rocket-pack technology, or pure animation oversight? [[Personal canon|You be the judge!]]
* A Quintesson guard (of the [[Allicon]] variety) briefly appears on their ship after everyone travels through the quadrant lock into Zamojin space, but is only visible from the waist down in the background. It wasn't there before, and doesn't appear anywhere else in the episode.
* It's an amazing coincidence that the part the Quintessons need happens to be inside Perceptor, ''and'' that it's located right behind the one part the blacksmith removes, ''and'' that it just happens to fit Nijika's face.
* If the quadrant lock blocks out the light from stars, shouldn't the planet be pitch black during the episode? And why are there stars on the Zamojin side of the lock as it closes behind the Autobots and Cyclonus, and on the Quintesson viewscreen as they discover the survival of their enemies?
* Rodimus, Magnus and Blurr all decide that the injured Blurr should be left behind rather than carried along in robot mode. Doesn't anyone remember that Magnus turns into a car carrier?
** They finally ''do'' use Magnus's carrier mode to transport Perceptor's inert form.
* Rodimus and Magnus apparently don't hear Blurr being jumped by a group of angry Zamojin, even though they left him 5 seconds ago.
* In a subtle bit of storytelling, the Quintesson picks up on Cyclonus's "mob psychology" notions and riles the crowd up against Perceptor/Nijika. Cyclonus immediately realizes that this is a huge mistake, because it endangers the universal emulator that they've gone through so much trouble to recover. However, we're never actually shown that the two ersatz allies have figured out that Nijika has the emulator, making Cyclonus's reaction a bit confusing.
* As noted above, Blurr mentions having wheels in vehicle mode... despite clearly being a wheel-less hovercar. Bumblebee had the same problem [[More than Meets the Eye, Part 1|many episodes ago]].
* It's not clear ''why'' the quadrant lock ceases to function. Did Perceptor work some sabotage? Could it not be re-activated without the emulator? Compounding the problem, the Quintesson ship isn't actually shown passing back through the lock - the ship simply fades off into the distance, and then the stars appear.

===Trivia===
[[File:FaceOfNijika Rodimus Prime Car Mode.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1|Proving the trailer is just Optimus envy since 1986.]]
* Internal Marvel/Sunbow documentation shows that this episode is ''supposed'' to be titled merely "The Face of Nijika," but an extra "the" wound up in the on-screen title that's never been corrected.
* This episode was originally assigned the production code 700-109, but the script was subsequently "put on hold" by Hasbro for unknown reasons. When later revised and approved, the episode was given a new production code of 700–113, according to a piece of internal correspondence from Marvel Productions.<ref>[https://twitter.com/MSipher/status/1107399668361650176 Marvel Productions internal correspondence, posted by MSipher on Twitter]</ref>
* The entrance to Kodu Ri is shown in a glowing pattern similar to that of [[Oracle (G1)|The Oracle]] from [[Call of the Primitives|a few episodes ago]].
* For one frame when falling down the slope, and in a longer shot a few seconds later, Rodimus Prime is shown to have a car mode - similar to, but distinct from, his Hot Rod car mode - when separated from his trailer in vehicle mode.

===Foreign localization===
'''French'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Le visage du Nijika'''" ("The Face of the Nijika")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?
::*This episode has been dubbed (or maybe re-dubbed) in the 2000s by a brand new team (including voice actors from the ''[[Transformers Animated (cartoon)|Animated]]'' dubbing team like [[Bruno Magne]] and [[Frédéric Cerdal]]). This was probably on demand from [[Déclic Images]] for their DVD collection. That may be because the original dub was lost or not usable. It is unknown if a dubbing of this episode was made in the 1980s and if so, where it is.
::*Despite this new dub being made in France, all the robots are called by their Canadian French names. However, the Sharkticons are called by their original name.
::*In the middle of the episode, another voice actor takes the place of Bruno Magne as Cyclonus. The voice is pitched to make a very deep voice. Despite Magne taking the character back for the rest of the episode, the pitch remains until the end.

'''German'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Nijika, die Himmelstänzerin'''" ("Nijika, the Heaven-dancer")
:*''Original airdate:'' February 22, 1992 on RTLpus (According to information from fernsehserien.de)

'''Italian'''
:*''Title (first dub):'' "'''La danzatrice celestiale'''" ("The Celestial Dancer")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?
::*Once, Perceptor weirdly speaks in rhymes.
:*''Title (second dub):'' "'''Il volto di Nijika'''" ("Nijika's Face")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?

'''Japanese'''
:*''Title:'' テレパシー惑星を救え (''Telepathy Wakusei o Sukue'', "Save the Planet of Telepathy")
:*''Original airdate:'' ''see below''
::*Much like "[[The Golden Lagoon (episode)|The Golden Lagoon]]", this episode was not broadcast in all regions in Japan and thus has no official airdate. While what day and what regions it ''was'' broadcast in are not currently known, official episode guides list it between [[June 5]] and [[June 11]], [[1987]].
::* A "[[Secret Files of Teletraan II]]" segment unique to Japan was attached to the end of this episode. It focuses on the [[Aerialbot (G1)|Aerialbot]]s. It is different from the segment attached to "[[Money Is Everything (episode)|Money Is Everything]]" which ''also'' focuses on the Aerialbots. This new "Secret Files" segment replaces the original US version which focused on the [[Mini-Cassette]]s. The US segment was never used in the Japanese broadcast of the series.

'''Mandarin'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Měi Xiān'gū'''" (美仙姑, "Fairy Beauty")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?

==Home video releases==
{{homevidnote}}
;{{w|LaserDisc}}
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 1999 — ''The Transformers: 2010'' ([[Geneon Universal Entertainment|Pioneer LDC]]) — Japanese audio only.
;DVD
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 2001 — ''The Transformers: 2010'' — DVD Box (Pioneer LDC) — Japanese audio only. 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2004 — ''The Original Transformers'' — Season 3 Part 2 & Season 4 ([[The Original Transformers|Rhino Entertainment]]) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2004 — ''Transformers'' — Season 3 and Season 4 ([[Metrodome]]) 
[[File:Flag of Australia.png|20px|Australia]] 2004 — ''Transformers'' — Collection 5: Series 3.2 ([[Madman Entertainment]]) 
[[File:Flag of France.png|20px|France]] 2005 — ''Transformers'' — Volume 23 ([[Déclic Images]]) — European French audio only. 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2006 — ''Transformers'' — The Complete Generation One Collection (Metrodome) 
[[File:Flag of Australia.png|20px|Australia]] 2007 — ''The Transformers'' — Complete Collection (Madman Entertainment) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2009 — ''Transformers'' — Season's Three & Four {{sic}} (Metrodome) 
[[File:Flag of Australia.png|20px|Australia]] 2009 — ''The Transformers'' — Complete Collection: Decepticon Edition (Madman Entertainment) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2009 — ''The Transformers'' — The Complete Series: 25th Anniversary "Matrix of Leadership" Collection ([[Shout! Factory]]) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2010 — ''The Transformers'' — Seasons Three & Four: 25th Anniversary Edition (Shout! Factory) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2011 — ''The Transformers'' — The Complete Original Series (Shout! Factory) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2014 — ''The Transformers'' — Seasons Three & Four: 30th Anniversary Edition (Shout! Factory) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2014 — ''Transformers'' — The Classic Animated Series (Metrodome)

==External links==
*[https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WpFVKB0TjQVgS93tcLlEfOVKPyder5Ld Episode dialogue script]

{{DEFAULTSORT:Face of the Nijika}}
[[Category:The Transformers episodes]]

==References==
{{reflist}}

The Face of the Nijika

2026-05-05T13:17:25Z

Hello Goodbye: /* Notes */

{{episode
|series=G1toon
|ep=92
|series2=2010
|ep2=27
|prev2=Call of the Primitives
|next2=The Burden Hardest to Bear
|image=FaceOfNijika Katsu Don Nijika.jpg
|caption=Usually, women don't need help putting their face on.
|title="The Face of the Nijika"
|season=3
|season ep=27
|production code=700-113
|airdate=[[November 20]], 1986
|written by=[[Mary Skrenes]] and [[Steve Skeates]]
|production company=[[Sunbow Productions]]
|animation studio=[[AKOM]], [[Sam Young Studio]]
|continuity=[[Generation 1 cartoon continuity]]
|video=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVrI8N20gpE
|videosite=YouTube
}}

'''The Autobots discover a race of aliens who have also experienced persecution from the Quintessons.'''

==Synopsis==
[[File:FaceOfNijika Galvatron lock.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|Little pig, little pig, let me in!]]

[[Sky Lynx (G1)|Sky Lynx]], who is carrying [[Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Rodimus Prime]], [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ultra Magnus]], [[Blurr (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Blurr]], and [[Perceptor (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Perceptor]], detects a disturbance nearby and discovers [[Galvatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Galvatron]] bashing on some strange disk. They also detect a [[Quintesson]] [[Quintesson spacecraft|ship]] heading for that same location. Perceptor speculates that the Quintessons don't want Galvatron meddling with the disk, so Rodimus decides to meddle with the [[Decepticon]]s and the Quintessons.

At the disk, Galvatron continues bashing away, taking a moment to bash [[Cyclonus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Cyclonus]] when he warns the [[Decepticon leader]] that the Quintessons are approaching. The Quintessons fire at Galvatron and are thankful that the [[quadrant lock]] is not damaged. However, the [[Autobot]]s then arrive. The Quintessons refuse to let the Autobots learn anything about the lock...unless, say, they learn from the other side. Opening the lock, the Quintessons drive their ship through, taking Rodimus, Magnus, Blurr, and Perceptor with them. Unwilling to let the Autobots learn its secrets, Galvatron throws Cyclonus at them so he is also drawn through the lock, which closes. Unfortunately for the Quintessons, their [[isolator key]] has been damaged, and it is the only thing that can open the quadrant lock. However, Perceptor has a [[universal emulator]], which could serve as a replacement.

Falling into the gravity well of the nearby planet [[Zamojin (planet)|Zamojin]], Perceptor announces that he is suffering from [[transformation]] [[Transformation paralysis|paralysis]], and is stuck in [[Alternate mode|microscope mode]]. However, the other Autobots do not respond. On the planet, members of a primitive, humanoid civilization see their descent. One man declares that the "[[Quintesson|devils]]" have returned, leading an angry mob out of [[Tozin|their city]]. However, a blacksmith outside the city sees them and goes to investigate astride his mount, [[Bruta Lo]], and recovers Perceptor. Meanwhile, the Autobots are not doing so well after their crash-landing. Rodimus and Magnus hit the trees, which are as hard as rocks, while Blurr hit an actual rock and is so injured he cannot walk. Rodimus tells him to lean on "fearless [[Prime (rank)|leader]]", while Magnus wonders where Perceptor crashed.

At his hut, the blacksmith removes Perceptor's [[insignia]], which also contains his universal emulator. Having tracked Perceptor's descent, the Quintessons dispatch a pair of [[Sharkticon (species)|Sharkticons]] to retrieve the scientist, but someone follows them. The blacksmith places Perceptor's insignia on a small, female robot called [[Nijika]]. The Sharkticons arrive, but the blacksmith fights them off, damaging their armor with his bare hands. (Holy [[Slag (slang)|slag]]!) Meanwhile, Perceptor, having taken control of Nijika, asks the blacksmith, named [[Katsu Don]], what is going on. Perceptor learns that the [[Zamojin (species)|Zamojin]] were once advanced and that they had developed interstellar travel, protected by the guardian [[Kodu Ri]]. Katsu Don's ancestor, [[Niko Don]], built Nijika as an exploration drone, hoping to make contact with other races. However, the Quintessons attacked, damaging Kodu Ri and Nijika, then sealed them with the quadrant lock, which blacked out the stars. The Zamojin were reduced from technologically advanced to primitive within a very short amount of time and have been that way since. Perceptor concludes that something about the Zamojin terrified the Quintessons so much that they locked them in this part of space, and now he and Katsu Don need to warn the latter's people that the Quintessons have returned.

[[File:FaceOfNijika Magnus Rodimus.jpg|upright=1.1|thumb|"Damn it, I can't find any sign of the Quints, Rodimus!" "Uh, Magnus...never mind."]]

Elsewhere, Rodimus, Magnus, and Blurr are moving, but the injured Blurr is slowing them down. (That's a turnaround.) Blurr tells them to leave him and find Perceptor, as only he can repair Blurr. Though not happy, they agree. This proves a mistake, for moments later, a band of warriors finds Blurr. On the Quintesson ship, the Quintessons are debating what to do. One of them will have to go to the surface, but if a single Zamojin damaged two Sharkticons, [[Furmanism|what chance do they have?]] Cyclonus appears and offers them a deal: Give Galvatron the secrets of the quadrant lock, and he will go with one of them to retrieve Perceptor. Looking for Perceptor, Rodimus and Magnus are attacked by a group of warriors but are able to drive them off. They locate Perceptor's body, but without the emulator, he is offline. Rodimus and Magnus decide to search the city.

[[File:FaceOfNijika Blurr dangling.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|Now, now, now what did I do to this time? This is not right, not right, not right I tell you! Let me down, down, down from here! I’ve heard of hanging around, but is ridiculous! Not that I mind hanging, hanging is great, great, great fun, but I never, never, never meant it literally! Hello? Help me, help me, help me anyone? I’ve done nothing, nothing, nothing to deserve this!!]]

At the city of [[Tozin]], the Zamojin are preparing to execute Blurr, dangling him over a molten pit. Just to nudge things along, Cyclonus shouts out "Burn him now!", inciting the Zamojin to lower him in. However, the [[Zamojin Empress]] commands them to stop. She reveals Perceptor/Nijika, who tries to explain the situation. However, the Quintesson shouts that the doll is possessed, putting the crowd back into a mob mentality. Realizing that the Quintesson has just endangered the tool they've worked so hard to get, Cyclonus grabs Perceptor and orders the Quintesson to bring their ship.

[[File:FaceOfNijika Quintesson Nijika.jpg|upright=1.1|thumb|Not now, I'm watching the game!]]

Katsu Don grabs Cyclonus's legs as he flies off, and is carried into the Quintesson ship, where the remaining Quintesson traps him with some electrified headgear. The Quintesson orders Perceptor to hand over the emulator, or Katsu Don will die. Perceptor complies, while the other Quintesson shoots Blurr's rope, causing him to fall into the molten liquid...which he describes as a nice soak that lets him repair the bent strut that's been crippling him. Transforming, Blurr launches out of the pit and onto the Quintesson ship, with Rodimus and Magnus following. Blurr frees Katsu Don, while Magnus takes on Cyclonus. Rodimus throws Katsu Don out, while Blurr grabs the emulator and Magnus takes Cyclonus, who follows after the Quintessons.

The Zamojin Empress fears what the Quintessons will take this time, but Perceptor, now in his real body, says that the Quintessons are about to give the Zamojin something. The Quintesson ship passes through the quadrant lock...and it fades, revealing the stars. With the Quintessons unable to reseal the quadrant lock, the Autobots realize the Zamojin's technology is telepathic in nature and powered by starlight. The intelligence of the Zamojin advances rapidly, and they repair Kodu Ri. As Sky Lynx lands, Perceptor asks Katsu Don if he will continue his ancestor's research. Katsu Don vows that Perceptor will meet Nijika again...out among the stars.
{{-}}

==Featured Characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
* [[Sky Lynx (G1)|Sky Lynx]] (1)
* [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ultra Magnus]] (2)
* [[Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Rodimus Prime]] (3)
* [[Blurr (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Blurr]] (4)
* [[Perceptor (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Perceptor]] (5)

|c2=
* [[Galvatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Galvatron]] (6)
* [[Cyclonus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Cyclonus]] (7)

|c4=
* [[Quintesson]]s (8)
* [[Sharkticon (species)|Sharkticons]] (9)
* [[Allicon]] (10)
* [[Katsu Don]] (11)
* [[Zamojin Empress]] (past) (12)
* [[Niko Don]] (13)
* [[Bruta Lo]] (14)
* [[Nijika]] (15)
* [[Zamojin Empress]] (present) (16)
}}

==Notable quotes==
"Put yourself in idle, Blurr."
:—'''Rodimus Prime''', saying what we're all thinking.

"It's mine! I found it! Don't let them steal it!" 
"Mighty Galvatron, you-" 
"STOP THEM!" ''[throws Cyclonus]''
:—'''Galvatron''' demonstrates his leadership skills on '''Cyclonus'''.

"Great, so leave, beat it, amscray, split, depart, vamos, evaporate, move it, sayonara, do svidanya, goodbye! ...hel-lo?"
:—'''Blurr''' encourages Rodimus and Magnus to get moving... then meets some of the locals.

"We will be back, demons! You will not live to see the dawn!!!" 
"Yeah yeah, sure sure."
:— the '''Zamojins''' just don't impress '''Rodimus''' at all.

'''Cyclonus''': Burn him now! 
'''Quintesson''': Be silent! Don't call attention to us! 
'''Cyclonus''': VEEENNGEANNNNCE NOOOOOOOW! 
''[The crowd starts to cheer]'' 
'''Female Zamojin''': Yes! The devils must pay! They stole the stars in the sky! 
'''Male Zamojin''': They stole the light from our minds! 
'''Cyclonus''': Hahahaha. You've never understood mob psychology, have you?
:—Cyclonus must be an {{w|Bedivere#Modern depictions|Bedivere}} on dealing with witches.

"Hood in place, wheels in place, bumpers in place, engine hot, I'M OUTTA HERE!"
:—'''Blurr''' feels much better after a bath. Also, he seems to think he has wheels?

==Notes==
===Production information===
* Final script: 19th September 1986

===Continuity notes===
[[File:FaceOfNijika Autobots exit Sky-Lynx.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1|URRRRRRRRRP]]
* Sky Lynx transforms to robot mode and the Autobots exit by flying out through his mouth!
* Perceptor is equipped with a "[[universal emulator]]", which can, at the very least, mimic the function of the Quintessons' isolator key. It is presumably responsible for letting Perceptor take control of the Nijika construct and maybe the reason why his Autobot insignia morphs into Nijika's face.
* Perceptor reacts to his predicament with a "What in the name of [[Alpha Trion]]?"
* Blurr speaks at more-or-less normal speed several times in this episode.
* This episode marks the last appearance of Perceptor in the western cartoon.
* The "laughing" Quintesson face's voice is especially nasal and humorously over exaggerated in this episode.

===Real-world references===
[[File:FaceOfNijika Katsu don.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1]]
[[File:FaceOfNijika Kodu Ri.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1]]
* The character and set designs of the Zamojins are loosely based on some aspects of ancient East Asian culture - from their clothes, architecture, and [[Buddha]]-esque guardian to their harsh mountain climate. Katsu Don is generically patterned after a Chinese warrior, whereas Nijika's dress is a combination of a ''kosode, uchikake, and obi'' and she wears ''{{w|kumadori}}''-like makeup.
* Some of their nomenclature seems to be closely related to the Japanese language as well.
**The name "Zamojin" appears to use the Japanese suffix ''"-jin,"'' meaning "people or person from (x)."
**"Katsu Don" may or may not be a play on the Japanese pork-cutlet and rice dish [[w:Katsudon|katsudon]].
**Nijika is an actual Japanese girls' name. It can be written in a dozen different ways and its meaning is therefore up to debate.
* ''[[Star Wars (franchise)|Star Wars]]'' references:
** [[TIE Fighter]] roar as Blurr flies up to the Quintesson ship.

===Animation and technical errors===
* An AKOM episode, so watch for color model oddities, including:
**Rodimus and Galvatron are both consistently colored using outdated color models; Rodimus's shoulder indentations are red instead of white, his pelvis-windshield details are white instead of light burgundy, and his gun is red instead of black, while Galvatron has pale purple "underpants."
** The inside of Magnus' mouth is red.
** The inside of Blurr's mouth is blue.
** Cyclonus has purple eyebrows and a purple neck.
* In the first shot of Sky Lynx's display, the bottom of the image is clipped over the frame of the screen.
[[File:FaceNijika-Rodimustruck.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1]]
* Coloring errors:
** Perceptor's face is light blue instead of light gray as Blurr reacts to Galvatron's first appearance.
** When the Quintesson ship arrives in the flashback, its front section is grey instead of green.
** After the flashback, when Nijika walks towards Bruta Lo, her face is all white.
** When Rodimus and Magnus halt before the crowd of natives, Rodimus's roof is colored windshield-blue, and his windshield is colored red.
** "You will not live to see the dawn!!" - Rodimus's side windows are orange and yellow.
** More than once, Rodimus's burgundy is so dark it's verging on black.
* Cyclonus mouths Galvatron's first "GRRAHHH!" just before Galvatron slugs him.
* Galvatron is supposed to tumble away after being shot by the Quintesson ship, but freezes on the edge of the screen.
* When he exits Sky Lynx, Magnus is missing his Autobot logo.
* The red squares on Galvatron's shoulders are missing in many shots.
* Sky Lynx gets a non-standard laser sound as he blasts Galvatron and the Quintesson ship.
* "Except, perhaps, from the inside!" - the Quintesson rotates his head as if to bring the speaking face into view, but none of his mouths move.
* When the Quintesson ship moves past the Autobots into the quadrant lock, it seems mighty small.
* Magnus explains for the viewer that the lock passageway is shrinking... but the animation doesn't actually show it. In fact it's not clear at all why the Quintessons think the passage would be harmful to them at all.
* The first Zamojin to speak sees the falling Autobots and declares "Behold! Fire in the sky!" But the Autobots aren't showing any heating or burning effects at all - in fact they're floating rather gently to the ground.
* There is, somewhat obviously, no room in Nijika's head for the universal emulator to fit — but it does anyway. The universal emulator is elongated horizontally when first removed from Perceptor, but later shots show it as just a few inches thick.
* During the flashback to the original Nijika's launch, the stars show through the heads of the crowd as they cheer her along.
* Despite the culminating point of Katsu Don's story being the disappearance of the stars after the quadrant lock is activated... they don't actually disappear.
* Where's the trailer go?:
** Rodimus's trailer slides out of the frame when he transforms while rolling out-of-control down the hill. At the bottom, when he changes back, it's already down there waiting for him! It just rolls in from off-screen.
[[File:FaceOfNijika Cyclonus Quintesson crowd.jpg|right|upright=1.1|thumb|See, we didn't need those fake mustaches after all!]]
* A crowd of Zamojins gathered to watch Blurr's execution is apparently supposed to feature some of their number costumed as the hated five-faced demons and their robot servants, thus explaining why Cyclonus and the Quintesson can just stand around in the middle of the crowd that hates their kind. The animation, however, almost totally fails to convey this, having the Cybertronians tower over the largely un-costumed Zamojins, who are mostly just wearing some little face masks. Furthermore, the animation mistakenly colors the masks flesh-toned, almost completely hiding the fact they're wearing them at all.
* The crowd member's line "they stole the light from our minds" is delivered in Perceptor/Nijika's voice.
* "Your life is over, Autobot!" yells Cyclonus - but rather than shooting at Blurr, he just stands there for a moment, making some strange, faint grumbling noises. Then finally Magnus tackles him.
* Cyclonus is missing the orange shape below his chest when Magnus tackles him, and when flying back towards the Quintesson ship.
* Sky Lynx is tiny when he lands on the planet, only a tad taller than the other Autobots.

===Continuity errors===
[[File:FaceOfNijika Quint ship over Zamojin.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1|Is it a Quintesson ship? Or is it a ship belonging to the We Fly Ships That Look Just Like Quintesson Ships civilization?]]
* "Perceptor, is that a Quintesson ship?" Just how Rodimus Prime could mistake the Quintessons' unique corkscrew ships for anything else is a bit hard to understand.
* Flying Autobots:
** Sky Lynx advises his crew to "don your [[Jet pack|rocket pack]]s", and the Autobots subsequently fly out into space - however, they aren't shown actually wearing any rocket packs. Tiny invisible micro-rocket-pack technology, or pure animation oversight? [[Personal canon|You be the judge!]]
* A Quintesson guard (of the [[Allicon]] variety) briefly appears on their ship after everyone travels through the quadrant lock into Zamojin space, but is only visible from the waist down in the background. It wasn't there before, and doesn't appear anywhere else in the episode.
* It's an amazing coincidence that the part the Quintessons need happens to be inside Perceptor, ''and'' that it's located right behind the one part the blacksmith removes, ''and'' that it just happens to fit Nijika's face.
* If the quadrant lock blocks out the light from stars, shouldn't the planet be pitch black during the episode? And why are there stars on the Zamojin side of the lock as it closes behind the Autobots and Cyclonus, and on the Quintesson viewscreen as they discover the survival of their enemies?
* Rodimus, Magnus and Blurr all decide that the injured Blurr should be left behind rather than carried along in robot mode. Doesn't anyone remember that Magnus turns into a car carrier?
** They finally ''do'' use Magnus's carrier mode to transport Perceptor's inert form.
* Rodimus and Magnus apparently don't hear Blurr being jumped by a group of angry Zamojin, even though they left him 5 seconds ago.
* In a subtle bit of storytelling, the Quintesson picks up on Cyclonus's "mob psychology" notions and riles the crowd up against Perceptor/Nijika. Cyclonus immediately realizes that this is a huge mistake, because it endangers the universal emulator that they've gone through so much trouble to recover. However, we're never actually shown that the two ersatz allies have figured out that Nijika has the emulator, making Cyclonus's reaction a bit confusing.
* As noted above, Blurr mentions having wheels in vehicle mode... despite clearly being a wheel-less hovercar. Bumblebee had the same problem [[More than Meets the Eye, Part 1|many episodes ago]].
* It's not clear ''why'' the quadrant lock ceases to function. Did Perceptor work some sabotage? Could it not be re-activated without the emulator? Compounding the problem, the Quintesson ship isn't actually shown passing back through the lock - the ship simply fades off into the distance, and then the stars appear.

===Trivia===
[[File:FaceOfNijika Rodimus Prime Car Mode.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1|Proving the trailer is just Optimus envy since 1986.]]
* Internal Marvel/Sunbow documentation shows that this episode is ''supposed'' to be titled merely "The Face of Nijika," but an extra "the" wound up in the on-screen title that's never been corrected.
* This episode was originally assigned the production code 700-109, but the script was subsequently "put on hold" by Hasbro for unknown reasons. When later revised and approved, the episode was given a new production code of 700–113, according to a piece of internal correspondence from Marvel Productions.<ref>[https://twitter.com/MSipher/status/1107399668361650176 Marvel Productions internal correspondence, posted by MSipher on Twitter]</ref>
* The entrance to Kodu Ri is shown in a glowing pattern similar to that of [[Oracle (G1)|The Oracle]] from [[Call of the Primitives|a few episodes ago]].B
* For one frame when falling down the slope, and in a longer shot a few seconds later, Rodimus Prime is shown to have a car mode - similar to, but distinct from, his Hot Rod car mode - when separated from his trailer in vehicle mode.

===Foreign localization===
'''French'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Le visage du Nijika'''" ("The Face of the Nijika")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?
::*This episode has been dubbed (or maybe re-dubbed) in the 2000s by a brand new team (including voice actors from the ''[[Transformers Animated (cartoon)|Animated]]'' dubbing team like [[Bruno Magne]] and [[Frédéric Cerdal]]). This was probably on demand from [[Déclic Images]] for their DVD collection. That may be because the original dub was lost or not usable. It is unknown if a dubbing of this episode was made in the 1980s and if so, where it is.
::*Despite this new dub being made in France, all the robots are called by their Canadian French names. However, the Sharkticons are called by their original name.
::*In the middle of the episode, another voice actor takes the place of Bruno Magne as Cyclonus. The voice is pitched to make a very deep voice. Despite Magne taking the character back for the rest of the episode, the pitch remains until the end.

'''German'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Nijika, die Himmelstänzerin'''" ("Nijika, the Heaven-dancer")
:*''Original airdate:'' February 22, 1992 on RTLpus (According to information from fernsehserien.de)

'''Italian'''
:*''Title (first dub):'' "'''La danzatrice celestiale'''" ("The Celestial Dancer")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?
::*Once, Perceptor weirdly speaks in rhymes.
:*''Title (second dub):'' "'''Il volto di Nijika'''" ("Nijika's Face")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?

'''Japanese'''
:*''Title:'' テレパシー惑星を救え (''Telepathy Wakusei o Sukue'', "Save the Planet of Telepathy")
:*''Original airdate:'' ''see below''
::*Much like "[[The Golden Lagoon (episode)|The Golden Lagoon]]", this episode was not broadcast in all regions in Japan and thus has no official airdate. While what day and what regions it ''was'' broadcast in are not currently known, official episode guides list it between [[June 5]] and [[June 11]], [[1987]].
::* A "[[Secret Files of Teletraan II]]" segment unique to Japan was attached to the end of this episode. It focuses on the [[Aerialbot (G1)|Aerialbot]]s. It is different from the segment attached to "[[Money Is Everything (episode)|Money Is Everything]]" which ''also'' focuses on the Aerialbots. This new "Secret Files" segment replaces the original US version which focused on the [[Mini-Cassette]]s. The US segment was never used in the Japanese broadcast of the series.

'''Mandarin'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Měi Xiān'gū'''" (美仙姑, "Fairy Beauty")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?

==Home video releases==
{{homevidnote}}
;{{w|LaserDisc}}
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 1999 — ''The Transformers: 2010'' ([[Geneon Universal Entertainment|Pioneer LDC]]) — Japanese audio only.
;DVD
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 2001 — ''The Transformers: 2010'' — DVD Box (Pioneer LDC) — Japanese audio only. 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2004 — ''The Original Transformers'' — Season 3 Part 2 & Season 4 ([[The Original Transformers|Rhino Entertainment]]) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2004 — ''Transformers'' — Season 3 and Season 4 ([[Metrodome]]) 
[[File:Flag of Australia.png|20px|Australia]] 2004 — ''Transformers'' — Collection 5: Series 3.2 ([[Madman Entertainment]]) 
[[File:Flag of France.png|20px|France]] 2005 — ''Transformers'' — Volume 23 ([[Déclic Images]]) — European French audio only. 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2006 — ''Transformers'' — The Complete Generation One Collection (Metrodome) 
[[File:Flag of Australia.png|20px|Australia]] 2007 — ''The Transformers'' — Complete Collection (Madman Entertainment) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2009 — ''Transformers'' — Season's Three & Four {{sic}} (Metrodome) 
[[File:Flag of Australia.png|20px|Australia]] 2009 — ''The Transformers'' — Complete Collection: Decepticon Edition (Madman Entertainment) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2009 — ''The Transformers'' — The Complete Series: 25th Anniversary "Matrix of Leadership" Collection ([[Shout! Factory]]) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2010 — ''The Transformers'' — Seasons Three & Four: 25th Anniversary Edition (Shout! Factory) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2011 — ''The Transformers'' — The Complete Original Series (Shout! Factory) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2014 — ''The Transformers'' — Seasons Three & Four: 30th Anniversary Edition (Shout! Factory) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2014 — ''Transformers'' — The Classic Animated Series (Metrodome)

==External links==
*[https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WpFVKB0TjQVgS93tcLlEfOVKPyder5Ld Episode dialogue script]

{{DEFAULTSORT:Face of the Nijika}}
[[Category:The Transformers episodes]]

==References==
{{reflist}}

File:FaceOfNijika Rodimus Prime Car Mode.jpg

2026-05-05T13:14:42Z

Hello Goodbye: {{G1cap|Rodimus Prime transformed into car mode, with his trailer about to come in to rejoin it.|The Face of the Nijika|6}}

{{G1cap|[[Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Rodimus Prime]] transformed into car mode, with his trailer about to come in to rejoin it.|The Face of the Nijika|6}}

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2026-03-14T15:31:03Z

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==The Thirteen and the other conversation we've been waiting for==

Over the last few years, the Thirteen have played a major role in multiple ''Transformers'' stories. However, this prominence—combined with Hasbro's increasingly loose approach their in-universe lore—has also led to increasingly divergent portrayals of the group and its individual members.

Around 2015, we took the step of consolidating all the different incarnations of the Thirteen on one page for each, with the rationale that the characters were former [[multiversal singularity|multiversal singularities]], and mostly shared similar backstories and personalities between incarnations. However, even at the time, this was not a completely ideal comporomise. Most notably, the various [[Alpha Trion]]s were not consolidated into one, partly due to length and partly because the existence of his [[Alpha Trion#Shattered Glass|murderously insane evil counterpart]] represented a massive contradiction to the entire notion.

However, over the years, multiple authors have drastically reinterpreted the Thirteen and their story. The role of "Thirteenth Prime" has been filled by multiple contradictory characters—[[Optimus Prime (WFC)|Optimus Prime]], [[Zeta Prime (One)|Zeta Prime]], [[Sentinel Prime (G1)|Sentinel Prime]]—and individual depictions of the Primes themselves have grown increasingly divergent. "Shattered Glass" Alpha Trion is no longer the outlier, but rather an increasing trend: for instance, ''Transformers One'' features a completely heroic Megatronus who never becomes The Fallen, a Liege Maximo that looks nothing like Loki, and an incarnation of Nexus Prime that does not seem to be a combiner. With these data points in mind—and the potential for even further divergence in the coming years—I and several other editors feel that it may be time to reorganize our Thirteen coverage, splitting them out into individual [[continuity family]]-based incarnations the way we would for stock characters like [[Optimus Prime (disambiguation)|Optimus Prime]], [[Bumblebee (disambiguation)|Bumblebee]], etc.

However, if we do adopt this approach, some further problems would need to be solved.

* '''How do we handle toys?''' With a few exceptions like ''Revenge of the Fallen'' The Fallen, the toys of the Thirteen are clearly meant to be somewhat continuity-agnostic. ''Age of the Primes'' Solus Prime is about as faithful to her depiction in ''The Covenant of Primus'' as it is to ''One'' or any of the IDW comics in which she appears. Even if we count them as "repurposes" across multiple pages, the format of the wiki means they'd have to be based ''somewhere''...

* '''FunPub stuff''': The Vector Prime of "Ask Vector Prime" is clearly meant to be a version of the same Vector Prime who appeared in the ''Cybertron'' cartoon, but at the same time makes reference to off-camera events, such as a time when he and the Thirteen lived in Ancient Greece—would we make a separate "FunPub" page for the Thirteen, or try and work these events onto Unicron Trilogy pages when necessary? Other similar problems exist: "[[Coalescence]]" is a story that features a movie universe Fallen jumping into the world of ''Shattered Glass'', and AVP established that "The Evil One" of GoBots fame, is another alternate-universe incarnation of The Fallen/Megatronus.

Feedback on this proposal is appreciated! [[User:Locoman|Locoman]] ([[User talk:Locoman|talk]]) 11:50, 7 December 2024 (EST)
:From my point of view, I think as it stands right now my thoughts on the Thirteenth Prime stuff is that I absolutely understand the concerns, but for me personally it kind of falls into the same view as like, IDW Primus being Rung, which I think our current model handles fairly well. For the other Primes, I'm tempted to say that like...as it stands, there's about as much divergence there as like, Unicron as he's depicted in The Last Knight (not really shown to be aggressive beyond being called Cybertron's enemy), and as it stands right now, I don't think that's enough to say there should be a full-on split, but I do think it's worth thinking about future-proofing. And I suppose my main concern right now about pushing ahead too soon is in the event there's some fiction accompanying the Age of the Primes stuff; certainly, the fact that we're getting a toy of the Fallen with the Megatronus name but with the original Dreamwave design does make me hesitant that there might be some further consolidation of disparate elements; and I remember that last time we did this in the early 2010s was that we figured the idea of the Aligned Primes not having any connections to the others was going to be the standard going forward, which turned out not to be the case, and I figure it might be worth considering if something like that happens again. But! I am open to ideas of how to implement this if we do go for it; I think the suite options we have for Primus and Unicron work perfectly fine if we go for something like that. Just figure it's worth considering the stuff I've brought up here first. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 12:35, 7 December 2024 (EST)
::Right now, I'm leaning toward the camp of not splitting them out for all the reasons you've given. I look at our current situation and, while not perfect, I feel that things can be tidied up simply with some "Conceptual history" sections for the pages that need them. The aforementioned Vector Prime is a particular case not just for everything stated about him above, but because [[Vector Prime: In the Beginning|his very first Fub Pub appearance]] written by [[Forest Lee]] leans so heavily far into the multiversal aspect of the character that it doesn't treat him like he is a native to the Cybertron cartoon universe but rather to the whole multiverse itself. Similarly, Nexus Prime was also continuity-agnostic by his very nature from the ground up. The safest solution for splitting him out would be to classify his Fun Pub incarnation under "(Timelines)" (the previous "(Classics)" tag we had him under was bleh), but that's typically a last-resort tag we have tried to avoid in the past.
::Regarding The Fallen, while he does tend to be evil in a majority of his depictions, and has had a few outlier cases where he either didn't go bad at all (TF One) or was the victim of other's manipulations (Covenant), it's implied that the majority of those evil versions weren't always evil from the start, and only went bad later. The TF One version of Megatronus never turned to the dark side, but one could argue that he was murdered before he ever would have gotten the chance to. ;-)
::Regarding the Thirteenth Prime and various conflicting the depictions, we solved that issue by simply creating the "[[Thirteenth Prime]]" article to explain everything there.
::You mention the situation with Alpha Trion, and I get it. The biggest reasons for simply not merging all of his pages together were that A) he was never originally meant to be one of the Thirteen since the original Dreamwave-based lore for the Thirteen had them all die before A3 was even born, and B) his Shattered Glass self. I used to be a proponent for keeping all of his versions separate because of A, but in the time since then we've had more and more depictions of him as a 13er who were all still pretty much the same as his traditional pre-Aligned depictions. If we were to merge all of his versions together, a "Conceptual history" section for him could explain the whole "Sometimes he's a 13er, sometimes he's not" situation.
::BUT, there still remains his SG version, which I wouldn't feel comfortable putting on the same page as his other versions. Reaching back to the [https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Transformers:_Shattered_Glass_(franchise)#Separate_Continuity.3F original discussion] about how to handle the SG characters, I find myself still agreeing with those like Steve-o who pointed out how awkward "'''Continuity X''': Bumblebee loves humans and does lots of funny and cute stuff to help save the universe. '''Continuity Y''': Bumblebee loves humans and does lots of different but still funny and cute stuff to help save the universe. '''Shattered Glass''': Bumblebee is hardcore evil and wants to kill you for no particular reason. '''Continuity Z''': Bumblebee loves humans and does yet another set of funny and cute stuff to help save the universe." reads as a page. But, there is one thing we have nowadays that we did not have back when that original discussion was held and makes me wonder how differently the conversation might have gone if they had existed back then: Subpages. Looking at our [[Primus]] and [[Unicron]] articles, I find it to be a very fair and workable compromise that their respective SG versions are placed not on their respective main pages but as subpages for each. Doing the same for SG Alpha Trion were we to merge all of the non-SG A3's together could be a valid solution too, in my eyes. Unlike others, I don't see subpages as an annoying evil that much be dealt with and eliminated, but as a handy tool to work around tricky situations like this.
::Had they even existed back then, it's very possible that ALL SG characters may have ended up on subpages for their positive polarity counterparts instead of separate pages entirely. And since then, SG has grown to expand not just beyond the original Fun Pub SG G1 continuity but to other non-G1 SG continuities, like for the Movies, Animated, and Cybertron, forcing us to create such unsightly tags as "(SG Movie)", "(SG Animated)", and "(SG Cybertron)", when subpages could have prevented that with "(Movie)/Shattered Glass" or "(Animated)/Shattered Glass" and so on.
::But, I'm getting off topic. Backing up to the Thirteen, I'm for keeping the Thirteen together. In addition to what all I've said above, the Age of the Primes toys seem to be treating them as the standard or definitive versions of the Thirteen that apply for every version/universe/continuity, pulling from all across the board rather than sticking to a single depicted version of them. Prima has his Aligned body but the Sunbow Powerful Robot's head. The Fallen is just the Dreamwave design but with Aligned Megatronus's weapons from the books and RID 2015 cartoon. Micronus is likely to be based on his RID 2015 design which was itself based on the Aligned design. The statue group artwork makes Amalgamous looks more like his TF One design than his Aligned design. Vector Prime is just straight-up Cybertron Vector Prime. And Star Convoy was never one of the Thirteen in any version before now. Yet, all these disparately-sourced designs are being treated as if they all belong to the same group no matter what continuity they come from. So keeping them together as they are would just make it easier for us to not have to split hairs over which versions of which 13ers these are supposed to be when the answer would simply be "all of the above" (and we wouldn't have to put multiple entries of the same toy on, like, six or seven different characters' pages that would have to maintained equally across all of those pages). This model makes this particular version of the group feel inherently multiversal, with each member either originating from a different universe as each other, or being a multiversal hybrids comprised of different aspects of different versions of them from across the dimensions, as if Hasbro is trying to say that the AOTP versions represent *every* version of the Thirteen (minus Star Optimus, of course, since we know he's not a member in every version of this group). --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 13:01, 7 December 2024 (EST)
:::As somebody who's pushed for this split for a long time, I'm obviously all for it. I feel we can easily determine where the toys go based on their main inspirations (Fallen is G1 Dreamwave, Micronus is Aligned RID, etc) are or just make the links go to the G1 pages (since G1 is effectively the wastebasket taxon of this franchise anyway). For the FunPub stuff, we can either do it Sideways style or just do it like we do for Kre-O and ancillary stuff: place them based on the characterization/design used by the work. Multiversal Vector Prime is pretty much just Cybertron Vector Prime (and the TransTech incarnation from the last portion of AVP can be split out).
:::I am pretty much opposed to "subpages" because that is just duplicating the parentheses system we already have just for the sake of pedantry. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 13:03, 7 December 2024 (EST)
:::Fully agree with both Escargon and Sabrblade, and their reasoning. I am biased against splits pretty much as a matter of cause, but the Thirteen ''in particular'' have for most of their history (including now, in the continuity-agnostic ''Age of the Primes!)'' been defined by their multiversal nature. I just don't think a split would be helpful. —[[User:The Wadapan|wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 16:05, 7 December 2024 (EST)
::::So we need to wait five years of more non-multiversal stories to have this discussion again? That doesn't make sense. The COP version of the Thirteen weren't characterized as singularities in the first place, regardless; only FunPub cared about that aspect (and not even with the usual lineup we have now) and they tossed it because they realized it was an unworkable concept in this franchise and it's unlikely to ever get resurrected. It's been nearly a decade since the Shroud (the concept only existed from 2009-2015). You bring up AOTP but toylines clearly don't and never thought about those characters in terms of our organizational schema. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 17:19, 7 December 2024 (EST)
:I think we can probably leave the most of the old content together, since it might be a mess to split them apart and much of that content is based on the Covenant mythos anyway. I feel new iterations of the Thirteen (post-POTP?) should get their own pages, like ''Earthspark'' Quintus and the ''One'' Primes (particularly Megatronus since he's quite different). Though I suppose that begs the question of what to use in the parentheses for their current pages... —[[User:BluJayWarrior|BluJayWarrior]] ([[User talk:BluJayWarrior|talk]]) 13:10, 7 December 2024 (EST)
::How much of it is actually sticking to the Covenant? IDW1 had them be regular guys and some pre-Covenant stuff (notably Megatronus/Fallen) is more prominent for the character and not really compatible. Other Aligned stuff has also influenced other "continuity families", but we're not merging those articles, so I don't really see why this is different regarding the Thirteen. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 13:49, 7 December 2024 (EST)
:I’m against splitting pages, mostly because The Thirteen haven’t had enough drastic and unique depictions of them to stop “breaking the rules” for them and give them split pages.
::> The Thirteen haven’t followed the traditional convention of “every character gets a new page for that universe’s depiction”, mostly because of the whole multiversal singularity issue. Now while that concept isn’t used in fiction anymore, ''Age of the Primes'' seems to lean towards having a standard, continuity-agnostic depiction of the Thirteen from which future teams can use as the foundation of their depictions.
::> Escargon and Sabrblade make some good points regarding subpages, particularly with the example of the standard '''“Primus = God”''' and '''Rung (G1)''' incarnations. Rung is a distinct and unique take on the Primus character whose backstory is incompatible with virtually every other Primus incarnation, so placing him on the same page as the Primus of the Marvel Comics, or Cybertron, or the Aligned continuity, wouldn’t seem right.
::> ''The Covenant of Primus'' has been the foundation of every depiction of the Thirteen since it was released. Certain things might be modified, such as the 2005 IDW’s take on them, but even those Primes still follow certain story beats: Megatronus kills Solus, Liege Maximo is a manipulator, Prima’s role as the leader and his conflict with Megatronus, etc. ''One'' offers a depiction of the Thirteen who don’t enter a War of the Primes situation, but because we don’t really get any more information about them besides how they died, I wouldn’t say that they’re distinct enough or important enough to warrant their own pages.
::> Then there’s the fact that a lot of the Primes either have had very small roles or haven’t had any real importance to the franchise in several years: '''Micronus'''’s last big role was a few episodes in ''Robots in Disguise'' and a clever tie-in to the Microspace of the 2005 IDW universe. '''Onyx'''’s only big role was in the ''Covenant'', mostly thanks to '''[[Shockwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|this guy]]''' taking his place in another universe. Onyx has a few mentions in ''Cyberverse'', but I don’t think that alone should be the reason for splitting his page up. '''Nexus Prime''' and '''Vector Prime''' haven’t really done anything notable since the Shroud. '''Solus Prime''' has seen some prominence thanks to IDW's Caminus and ''Power of the Primes'', but those depictions again don’t stray too far from the ''Covenant''. '''Amalgamous Prime''' has had virtually no exploration as a character. The most we’ve gotten for him is a much easier-to-look-at design in ''One''.
::> Character-wise, story-wise… they’re all still heavily based on the ''Covenant''. Even '''Quintus Prime'''’s ''Earthspark'' depiction (with his more human-looking face) is based on his “Johnny Appleseed, made the Quintessons” lore established from the ''Covenant''. Now if we had a full group of the Thirteen from a Shattered Glass universe or had some “What-If?” incarnations of the characters that made them very different… splitting pages would make more sense to me.
::> A lot of the Thirteen have also maintained a consistent visual look to them since their introduction: all the Primes introduced in the Covenant have kept their look (Alchemist’s Lenses, Onyx’s face, Solus’ hair and color scheme), and every version of Megatronus seems to have a Decepticon insignia face, flames, and/or both. While ''One'' may have changed some color schemes (Liege Maximo missing his green), I don’t think just having a different color scheme and nothing else different warrants a new page.
::> I like the idea of conceptual history sections for now, and as I said on ''The Fallen''’s talk page, I think the beginning to his page needs a general rewrite from its “frozen in 2009” version. But until drastic new interpretations of those characters are created, if a member of the Thirteen has a single page… we should keep it as a single page --[[User:Daytonjhammon|Daytonjhammon]] ([[User talk:Daytonjhammon|talk]]) 16:33, 7 December 2024 (EST)
: Splitting them would simply be a bigger headache. They're rather like Primus and Unicron where they're "bigger picture" characters (only this time around designed ''very specifically'' to '''''be''''' as such) and it's best to treat them as such, and really, there's not enough material to BOTHER splitting for most of them. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 18:29, 7 December 2024 (EST)
::Since it's related to this subject, it should probably also be mentioned here that there have recently been two discussions happening on the talk page for [[The Fallen]]. One about changing that article's mainpic and the other about moving the page's name to Megatronus. As of now, nothing has come out of either discussion, but I feel the results of this a bigger discussion may have an effect on either of those two smaller ones. Speaking as one who is in favor of not splitting out the Thirteen, my thoughts on these two smaller topics are that a good compromise would be to keep the article at its current name since many Megatronuses still become The Fallen, but replace the mainpic with The Fallen's Age of the Primes toy packaging art (as it depicts him in his original first body from Dreamwave but armed with his now-signature weapons from Aligned media, serving as a sort of visual overview for the character's history), along with a rewrite of his intro at the top of the page to be more all-encompassing, and the inclusion of a new "Conceptual history" section to give a proper overview of his different depictions. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 19:29, 7 December 2024 (EST)
:::I'm going to second this. I've mulled it over a little bit and while there is an argument to be made for splitting them out, I feel that 12 of the 13 primes really don't warrant it. They just haven't had as much an impact on the story and while it could be future proofing to split them, until we get prominent appearances from them I don't think it's a viable option right now. Megatronus is clearly the exception to this rule. I don't know if there's a clean solution to dealing with him at the moment. Part of me thinks maybe we should suite out the Movie and RiD versions since those are his too big appearences to date. At the bare minimum though I think we should use either his Dreamwave or Age of Primes art as the mainpic. It's his first body and I think it's influenced more designs than his RoTF design has. [[User:Ezim93|Ezim93]] ([[User talk:Ezim93|talk]]) 22:57, 7 December 2024 (EST)
::::Erm, no. Neither his Movie or RiD sections (certainly not the latter) are big enough to warrant subpages for either. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 00:57, 8 December 2024 (EST)
:::I'm also of the opinion that a split would be a massive hassle for very little gain, but I do feel we should move The Fallen to Megatronus. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] ([[User talk:Dark T Zeratul|talk]]) 06:54, 8 December 2024 (EST)
::::To me, renaming the page to Megatronus feels like renaming an Optimus Prime page to Orion Pax. The name was created to tell us what he was called ''before'' he became The Fallen, like how Orion Pax was what Optimus was called before he became Optimus Prime. TF One Megatronus never became The Fallen but he's an anomaly, not a new standard. As of now, the only impact TF One Megatronus has had on the brand is the official reveal video for Age of the Primes describing the very Dreamwave/Aligned-based AOTP version as "the most powerful Prime," while also putting a grim, pronounced emphasis on "The Fallen" when referring to him as "Megatronus... The Fallen". --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 13:16, 8 December 2024 (EST)
::::: '''Yes''' to changing The Fallen's mainpic back to the DW-style character design, huge-ass '''No''' to changing the page name; the Optimus/Orion comparison is spot-on. (And as to below... yes. The Thirteen are absolutely "set dressing that walks like a man" and best to approach them as such.) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 20:11, 8 December 2024 (EST)

:After meditating upon this a while I think I've come to agree with the broad majority above that splitting each member of the Thirteen would hurt more than it would help. The way I see it what we should be striving for here is the approach that involves the least "hallucinating data" within our organizational system, and splitting will require making a lot of different calls on what "counts" to formulate micro-characterizations for dozens of serial continuity transplants, none of which do much individually, while obfuscating the larger context they are gesturing towards. Fundamentally what we may be running up against here is that the closest most of these guys have to a true "home continuity" as we typically think of it is... the brand bible. They are set dressing that walks like a man.

:To go one step further, if we want to talk future-proofing I would advocate formalizing the approach of treating them as a squad of mini-Unicrons/Primuses such that:

::1) My suggestion for the issues currently plaguing the Fallen (and to a lesser degree Trion) would be to make "Conceptual History" sections more or less standard issue across the board for the Thirteen, laying out swerves in characterization and appearance as they happened rather than trying to pry them apart ''or'' smoosh them together.

::2) I think it's worth revisiting merging Alpha Trion for consistency. In the decade+ since Prime cludged him into the lineup, Alpha Trion has consistently appeared as a member of the Thirteen, an insubstantial cameo, or both in pretty much every continuity he's appeared, and looking backwards I cannot help but notice that the fact that there's next to no meaningful daylight between his depictions has been the running gag of his [[Alpha Trion|disambiguation page]] since day one. If Shattered Glass remains a sticking point the Unicron/Primus style suite split approach is a reasonable compromise.

:I wouldn't say I'm married to any of this and counter-counter-proposals are welcome, but that's my two cents. --[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 14:08, 8 December 2024 (EST)
:I think just put a line at the end of the fallens intro article that says "while mostly a bad guy, there exists at least one universe (link to TF one section) where he's managed to defy all logic and be...good for once).[[User:Poliwag06|Poliwag06]] ([[User talk:Poliwag06|talk]]) 21:53, 8 December 2024 (EST)

I'm for splitting the Thirteen, for the same reasons Saix gave. If that doesn't work, I think the versions of Alpha Trion should be merged. It's the inconsistency that drives me batty. [[User:Boingus|--Boingus]] ([[User talk:Boingus|talk]]) 22:12, 8 December 2024 (EST)

===Checkpoint? (01/18/2025)===
This topic seems to have gotten as much interaction as it's going to get, so to take stock before it falls off the agenda completely:

:*'''Votes for splitting the Thirteen across the board:''' 4 (Locoman, Saix, BlueJayWarrior, Boingus)
:*'''Votes against:''' 8 (Escargon, Sabrblade, Wadapan, Daytonjhammon, M Sipher, Exim93, Dark T Zeratul, AzimuthAcolyte)

That seems like a pretty resounding 2:1 "no," but the discussion also generated some possible compromises/suggestions for future-proofing:

:*'''Votes for more widespread use of "Conceptual History" sections:''' 3 (Sabrblade, Daytonjhammon, AzimuthAcolyte)
:*'''Votes to merge Alpha Trion (with potential SG suite) for consistency:''' 3 (Sabrblade, AzimuthAcolyte, Boingus)

Lastly it generated some cross-bleed from the debates on [[Talk:The Fallen|The Fallen's talk page]] about some updates now that we're 16 years out from his [[live-action film series]] star turn:

1) Moving the page to "Megatronus":
:*'''For:''' 1 (Dark T Zeratul)
:*'''Against:''' 2 (Sabrblade, M Sipher)

2) Swapping back to a Dreamwave-style mainpic:
:*'''For:''' 3 (Sabrblade, Ezim93, M Sipher)

If anyone wants to try to resuscitate the mega-split speak now. If not, thoughts on the compromise proposals?

The Fallen discussion should probably return to his own page. --[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 13:33, 18 January 2025 (EST)
:My stances remain unchanged on all of the above. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 13:55, 18 January 2025 (EST)
::I'd be fine with splitting, but if we don't, we ''absolutely'' need to merge the Alpha Trions. There's no good justification for the others being together and him being split.
::As for the Fallen... I feel the need to point out that it's not ''just'' One Megatronus that didn't use the name. EVERY toyline and piece of media in the last decade — RID15, the Prime Wars cartoons, the POTP toy, the offhand mentions in Cyberverse — have used "Megatronus", completely dropping the idea that he stopped being Megatronus and became the Fallen. It's evidently how Hasbro thinks of the character; the Studio Series toy provides plenty of evidence that they ''could'' have just called the AOTP toy "The Fallen" if they'd wanted to. -[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]]) 15:51, 18 January 2025 (EST)
:::I am also pro-merging Alpha Trions with a SG subpage along the lines of what we do for Primus and Unicron. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 16:11, 18 January 2025 (EST)
::::I disagree that we need to put SG Trion on a separate page. Just have his Shattered Glass section open with "In the mirror universe of Shattered Glass, Alpha Trion was..." --[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]]) 16:58, 18 January 2025 (EST)
::::I'm pro merging Alpha Trion as well and adding conceptual history. Fallen/Megatronus discussion I'm good with taking back to his page. [[User:Ezim93|Ezim93]] ([[User talk:Ezim93|talk]]) 16:20, 18 January 2025 (EST)

:Here's my 5 cents. We are under no obligation to be consistent with how we treat the members of the Thirteen. If it makes sense for the characters, we can have Alpha Trions on separate pages because he has a long rich history of appearances in wide and varied media, including media in which he is not a member of the Thirteen, and we can also have Amalgamous Prime on one page because he doesn't. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 16:48, 18 January 2025 (EST)
::I'm in agreement with this. "Consistency" is nice until it isn't, and merging Alpha's pages... isn't. I feel like that's just gonna result in a clusterfuck. "Conceptual history" is fine to add, but frankly I feel like only like... maybe only a third of the 13 would even ''need'' it. There's really not a lot to most of these. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 22:07, 18 January 2025 (EST)
:::I'm curious what would be the negative result of merging Alpha Trion's pages. The thing is that they ''are'' basically all identical barring the Shattered Glass version, and even that one is functionally the same guy, just evil. RID01, Energon, Animated and ROTF Alpha Trion are all footnotes, which just leaves us with G1 Trion (sometimes of the Thirteen), Aligned Trion (of the Thirteen), Cyberverse Trion (of the Thirteen) and One Trion (of the Thirteen). Is there some complicating factor that I'm missing...? --[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]]) 22:38, 18 January 2025 (EST)
:::: Honestly, I think this just sold me on the idea of merging all the Alpha Trion pages, including the Shattered Glass version, into one page. A Conceptual History section could explain his development from sage to member of the Thirteen, with a paragraph about his Shattered Glass version. [[User:Daytonjhammon|Daytonjhammon]] ([[User talk:Daytonjhammon|talk]]) 00:02, 19 January 2025 (EST)
:::::As I stated above, I used to be firmly against the idea of the Alpha Trions being merged, because of the facts that he wasn't originally supposed to be one of the Thirteen (a ship that has long since sailed), he was never a singularity like the other 13ers were (which no longer matters at all now since that concept was done away with), and he has a Shattered Glass version (but so too do Primus and Unicron, now, and their pages have set a good workable precedent for how to deal with SG versions of "set dressing characters" like them and the Thirteen). But now, as time goes on, the more it begins to feel like we're just keeping the Alpha Trions separate for more pedantic reasons than are necessary, especially since the AOTP toyline looks to be drawing influence from all continuities for its specific roster of the Thirteen, as if to say that the AOTP toys of the Thirteen represent *all* versions of the Thirteen (meaning AOTP Alpha Trion will represent *all* Alpha Trions).
:::::Sipher mentioned that conceptual history sections would only benefit a small number of the Thirteen, and, well, yes, that is a true statement. But the idea wouldn't be to give ''all'' of the Thirteen conceptual history sections, just the few that would need it. And a merged. But there being only a few that would need it no less diminishes the need of those few.
:::::However, I definitely draw the line at putting SG characters on the same webpages as their non-SG counterparts, as I go back to [https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Transformers:_Shattered_Glass_(franchise)#Separate_Continuity.3Fthe original discussion about that very subject] and all the reasons given there (particularly from Steve-o, whom I already quoted above) for why SG characters should '''not''' share a webpage with their non-SG counterparts. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 00:47, 19 January 2025 (EST)
::::I feel like "they're all basically the same" is a charge that can be leveled at a lot of characters who are present in multiple continuity families. I'm all in favour of keeping non-entities to one page each, but Alpha Trion meets the threshold for actually having enough detail to have separate articles. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 16:32, 19 January 2025 (EST)
:My votes: No to splitting the 13 articles, yes for conceptual history, no to merging Trion (maybe expanding his disambig a la Sideways'?), no to moving the Fallen, maybe to changing his mainpic (compare to UT or Aligned characteers with major body changes - UT generally sticks with the Armada bodies, but Aligned favours Prime bodies over WFC). [[User:BattleBlade|BattleBlade]] ([[User talk:BattleBlade|talk]]) 18:01, 18 January 2025 (EST)
:I also think that it wouldn´t be appropriate to separate the pages of the thirteen and that the articles about Alpha Trion should be merged, after he become one of the 13 he has been mostly the same across all media. --[[User:MikeOsix|MikeOsix]] ([[User_talk:MikeOsix|talk]]) 20:57, 18 January 2024 (EST)
My vote is that we should keep Prime pages *mostly* non-split- I do, however, think there is merit to a "Conceptual History" part, going over different variations of the characters over the Years. I originally wanted Alpha's pages to be kept apart- but after some talking, I figure it's best for him to also enjoy a conceptual history rather than a disambiguation page. (I still love Disambiguation pages though.)
On The Fallen's page getting a Dreamwave-style picture: I give it a hard thumbs up. That seems to be the design Hasbro is sticking with compared to the skeleton-furnace guy from the movies. -- [[User:OptiMay Primal|OptiMay Primal]] ([[User talk: BattleBlade|talk]]) 21:54, 18 January 2024 (PST)
:I cannot see any benefit to smushing all of the Alpha Trion articles together. Every time this happens, we get a lengthy, unfocused mess of a page that wards off attempts at maintenance because it's so large. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 12:16, 19 January 2025 (EST)
::I'm personally against merging all the Trions, but I could be convinced if someone sandboxes a merged page first as a proof of concept. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 13:59, 24 January 2025 (EST)
At Cyberlink's suggestion, I've slapped together a rough prototype of a merged Alpha Trion suite broadly mirroring the Fallen's setup that can be seen–
:*'''[[Alpha Trion|HERE]]'''
Intro etc not final, of course. --[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 16:27, 24 January 2025 (EST)
:I like this. It's no longer or less focused than [[Unicron]], for example. I'm still kind of dubious about the need to exclude Shattered Glass versions from these cross-continuity characters, but at least SG Trion is more substantial than SG Unicron. --[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]]) 16:31, 24 January 2025 (EST)
:Posting to confirm I'm in favor of this. [[User:Ezim93|Ezim93]] ([[User talk:Ezim93|talk]]) 12:49, 25 January 2025 (EST)
:Yeah I like it too, when so many of his incarnations are so similar the unified article feels more user friendly [[User:LenaPrime|LenaPrime]] ([[User talk:LenaPrime|talk]]) 12:57, 25 January 2025 (EST)
:Adding that I think this works pretty well. - [[User:IGEBM13|IGEBM13]] ([[User talk:IGEBM13|talk]]) 18:42, 25 January 2025 (EST)
:Thought I'd stick my two cents in. I think this would work. If Unicron can have a merged page like this, then it should certainly work for Trion. [[User:Hilfam|Hilfam]] ([[User talk:Hilfam|talk]]) 23:44, 25 January 2025 (EST)
I've also started working on prototypes of rewrites / updates to Prima and The Fallen's pages, which can be seen...
:*'''[[User:Daytonjhammon/Sandbox/Prima|HERE for Prima]]''' and '''[[User:Daytonjhammon/Sandbox/The Fallen|HERE for The Fallen]]'''.
Discussion for The Fallen should probably stay on his [[Talk:The Fallen|own talk page]], but I'm linking them here since both have "conceptual history" sections I've drafted up. [[User:Daytonjhammon|Daytonjhammon]] ([[User talk:Daytonjhammon|talk]]) 13:50, 26 January 2025 (EST)

===Checkpoint 2 (05/05/2025)===
This definitely fell way off the agenda but there was sufficient interest that I believe it is worth circling back. Following Dayton's excellent work on Prima and the Fallen's Conceptual History section going live, the final point of order remains the prospect of merging Alpha Trion (with SG suite) to reflect his Aligned-forward characterization and bring him in line with the other 12 + 2 (Thirteen, Primus, Unicron) "man-shaped set dressing" characters.

Again, a full mock-up of this concept can be seen-

:*'''[[Alpha Trion|HERE]]'''

The current tally stands at:

:*'''Votes for merging Alpha Trion into one cross-continuity article with SG sub-page:''' 12 (Sabrblade, AzimuthAcolyte, Boingus, Broadside, Escargon, Ezim93, Daytonjhammon, MikeOsix, OptiMay Primal, LenaPrime, IGEBM13, Hilfam)
:*'''Votes against:''' 5 (abates, M Sipher, BattleBlade, Saix, Cyberlink420)

That's overwhelming support a ways past 2:1. Does anyone care to answer a last call for comment?

Suggestions or concerns for the prototype are particularly welcome. For my part I would appreciate assistance drafting a Conceptual History section. --[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 14:18, 5 May 2025 (EDT)
: Chipping in to reiterate that I'm in favour, though I'm unconvinced that the SG subpage is necessary. I do recognise that it's in line with how we currently treat Unicron, but like... is there anything we gain from having it be a separate page that we couldn't get from just putting "in one mirror universe, alpha trion was a real sicko!" at the top of the section? --[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2025 (EDT)
::On principle alone, I'm against putting SG characters on the same pages as their non-SG counterparts, no matter what. The day we make such allowance for just one of them is the day we open the floodgates for potentially doing that for any and all SG characters. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 19:54, 6 May 2025 (EDT)
:::The (SG) system is simple. What exactly does messing with it accomplish? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 20:28, 8 May 2025 (EDT)
::::See, my understanding was not that SG characters are "special exceptions", it's that we treat Shattered Glass as its own continuity family (and likewise SG Animated, et al). It's not "messing with" the system to put the SG version of a character on a cross-continuity family page for that character. --[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]]) 16:53, 13 May 2025 (EDT)
:::::It's messing with what Thylacine mentions for the sake of insisting on making categorization exceptions for the Thirteen. It's not useful to either editor or reader, especially if we're going to do the pointless lateral move that is "/Shattered Glass" anyway. (SG) is straightforward and easy to parse as opposed to "here's the explicitly negative AU guy buried here because arbitrary wiki reasons". [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 18:42, 13 May 2025 (EDT)
:::Looks like it doesn't matter anymore, but the difference between SG and non-SG material - the whole fact that SG exists to be an irreconcilable opposite to G1 - is more fundamental and important than the sum total of all appearances and history of at least 10 of the 13. We should not be wiping away important conceptual distinctions for the sake of unimportant asterisk characters who basically only ever existed in a list. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 16:59, 13 May 2025 (EDT)

== International Sightings ==

So, as of late, mentions of "toy appeared in (non-US country) without prior announcement" type lines have been getting purged from the wiki. This makes me wonder: am I allowed to even mention them anymore when a new toy appears somewhere? I'm not really sure why these relatively harmless information lines are getting removed, nor am I really a fan of it, but if I can't mention them anymore I will happily oblige.[[User:Poliwag06|Poliwag06]] ([[User talk:Poliwag06|talk]]) 21:04, 7 January 2025 (EST)
:They're being removed because "toy first showed up at a random store in Asia" is not useful information. That's how toy retail has worked for decades. Hasbro deigning to announce some product doesn't make it the standard. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 22:57, 7 January 2025 (EST)
::Oh, ok, I'll keep that in mind from now on.[[User:Poliwag06|Poliwag06]] ([[User talk:Poliwag06|talk]]) 23:11, 7 January 2025 (EST)

==First revealed at (some regular online update)==
On a similar note to the international sightings, what do people think of "toy was first revealed in Hasbro Instagram post / Fans First Friday / Pulse livestream of whatever date," etc.? We note this constantly, because it's another fact to include about a just-announced toy nobody owns yet. A year later it looks unimportant. Is this something we like and value, or more of a space-filing habit? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 07:34, 8 January 2025 (EST)
:I think it's a lot of blather, but at least it's documenting Hasbro marketing as opposed to random retail appearances. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 09:25, 8 January 2025 (EST)
: I'm lukewarm at best on 'em. But often these announcements are followed up almost immediately by pre-orders opening up through official channels, and that feels a bit more... noteworthy. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 12:31, 8 January 2025 (EST)
: Seems pretty relevant to me! There's value in preserving a toy's history, after all. ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 10:14, 6 April 2025 (EDT))

==Update Navigation==
Should the Navigation sidebar be changed to replace [[Transformers: Legacy|Legacy]] with [[Transformers: Age of the Primes|Age of the Primes]] or should we wait a bit?--[[User:CyclonustheWarrior|CyclonustheWarrior]] ([[User talk:CyclonustheWarrior|talk]]) 20:49, 2 February 2025 (EST)
:Good question. I think we could change it now since almost all of wave 1 is out at retail over in Asia, but I’ll wait for someone higher than me to make the final decision lol - [[User:IGEBM13|IGEBM13]] ([[User talk:IGEBM13|talk]]) 23:10, 5 February 2025 (EST)

==Adding a "Transformers in [Country name]" section to country articles==
So, by some weird coincidence, a lot of my edits in these past months have involved expanding on the quirks of how individual aspects of the Transformers brand were represented in countries like [[Brazil]], [[Argentina]], [[Greece]], and [[Portugal]] - however; something that I've noticed is that there's usually no comprehensive summary of this information in the actual pages we have for those countries, with most or all of it being restricted to the individual articles regarding those things instead (for instance; Argentina had a whole three companies that produced Transformers toys with [[Antex]], [[Comando Toys]], and [[Lynsa]], but none of them are even mentioned in Argentina's page!). As such, and in the spirit of making our wiki more international, I propose that we add a small section to every country page specifically regarding the presence of the Transformers brand within it.

Some information that could go into these sections, if available (naturally, not ''everything'' here needs to be mentioned):
* When Transformers media first premiered in the country
* When Transformers toys first released in the country
* Previous releases of [[pre-Transformers]] in the country, if any (e.g.; Italy's ''Trasformer'', the UK's ''Convertors'', Finland's ''Diaclone'', etc.)
* Brands that might have made toys or merchandise for Transformers in the country, if any (e.g.; [[Estrela]] in Brazil, [[IGA]] in Mexico, [[GiG]] in Italy, [[El Greco]] in Greece, etc.)
* Notable figures, variants, and/or entire toylines that are exclusive to the country, if any (obviously, a fully comprehensive list would be difficult for a country like Japan, but it seems feasible for others here.)
* Transformers media that's unique to the country, if any (again; it would be hard to form a comprehensive list for Japan or the US, but it might not be too difficult elsewhere.)
* Peculiar quirks and factoids regarding the distribution of Transformers toys in the country, if any (e.g.; Galaxy Shuttle releasing in Italy, Star Saber releasing in Portugal, Spain's translated G1 blister cards, [[Sonokong]]'s many odd releases of Transformers toys in South Korea, etc.)
* Transformers-connected artists that were born in the country (e.g.; Brazil's [[Marcelo Matere]], Spain's [[José Avilés]], etc.)
* Perhaps some notable aspects of the fandom in the country (e.g., fan organizations, conventions - whether they're [[Convention|official]] or [[Unofficial conventions|unofficial]] - etc.)

Editing these sections could also make for a pretty fun multinational effort: certainly, Transformers fans from all over the world have pretty unique knowledge about the brand in their regions that's undocumented until now, and it would be pretty cool for them to visit the pages for their respective countries and see a section that basically invites them to add that knowledge. If this idea seems acceptable then I would be happy to move ahead with introducing the section to some of the countries that I'm most familiar with (mostly in Europe and Latin America) - let me know what everyone else thinks! ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 10:07, 6 April 2025 (EDT))
:I like this idea! I think it’ll be really helpful for both readers and the site’s general organization to have information about international Transformers products and media on their respective countries’ pages. I’m not too well-versed in the foreign aspects of the brand outside of Japan, but I do know one piece of information we can add to Russia’s page is that ''Masterforce'' was the first show to air there :D - [[User:IGEBM13|IGEBM13]] ([[User talk:IGEBM13|talk]]) 10:47, 6 April 2025 (EDT)
::I had no idea about that, how interesting! Hopefully more people can give the go-ahead to this. ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 11:04, 6 April 2025 (EDT))
:::This strikes me as a proposal with a lot potential if we can get enough manpower behind it. --[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 17:00, 6 April 2025 (EDT)
:I've made versions of this proposed section for the Portugal, Spain, and Brazil pages, and posted them on [[User:FortressMaxxing/Sandbox|my sandbox]]. Any thoughts would be welcome! Also, shouldn't we maybe add the country flags to their respective pages? The Wikipedia SVGs are on public domain, so I guess we could just import those. ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 09:43, 7 April 2025 (EDT))
::I like the way these early write-ups look, it could prove very interesting. Though we should only add the country flags if they appeared in fiction, as we do with the [[Soviet Union]] or [[United States of America]]. Otherwise it's just not important. Every country has a flag, you don't need to come ''here'' to look at them or find out their capital cities, populations, national birds, etc. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 11:01, 7 April 2025 (EDT)
:::I mean, if we're also to discuss the "meta" details of Transformers in the country - meaning that the pages are no longer restricted to just fiction - then I think it makes sense to at least have a country flag up on the opening paragraph, no? I'm not saying we need to add an Wikipedia-like infobox with the capital and population count and whatever else, but if we also have stuff like logos for companies in their respective pages then it makes sense to at least have what's basically the largest and most important international identifier that a country has attached to a page about it. ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 11:29, 7 April 2025 (EDT))
:Given how there seem to be no objections to this project, I hope that it's fine to begin adding these sections to their respective pages during this weekend. I have added entries for Argentina, Italy, and Greece [[User:FortressMaxxing/Sandbox|to my sandbox]], so, together with the other three I previously shared; that will be six "The Transformers franchise in X country" sections coming from me - hopefully others will also be interested in adding similar sections to the pages of whatever countries they're most familiar with! ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 18:37, 11 April 2025 (EDT))
::I think the names could be simplified to "Transformers in X". [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 19:51, 11 April 2025 (EDT)
:::That was actually close to the previous name I had in this topic ("The Transformers in X") before renaming it because I thought it could be a little ambiguous, haha - but actually, I think you're right, "Transformers in Brazil" / "Transformers in Greece" / etc. does sound better and I guess all the ambiguities are kinda cleared up in context of the contents of the sections themselves! "Transformers in X" it shall be then, I've now again renamed this topic accordingly. ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 20:06, 11 April 2025 (EDT))
::::Yeah, it could be an ambiguous statement by itself, but we're not making "Transformers in Brazil" for all the fictional times Transformers characters appeared in Brazil because that's already covered by [[Brazil]] itself. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2025 (EDT)
:Ayo, I posted the first batch of "Transformers in X" sections a few days ago in the [[Portugal]], [[Spain]], [[Italy]], [[Greece]], [[Brazil]], and [[Argentina]] pages! There are still way more countries that need a similar level of development and since I won't be able to do all of them alone, I wanted to highlight at least the most important ones in the hopes that maybe other users will have an interest in working on them. So, here are '''the pages that most urgently need a "Transformers in X" section''' (plus '''some of the things they should mention'''):

* [[Japan]], obviously: The birth of the transforming robot as a Japanese cultural product (see [[Yonezawa Toys|Yonezawa]] and some of the later transforming robot toys leading up to Takara's Cosmo Countach and eventually the Diaclone Car Robots), the country's transition from Diaclone to Transformers, the introduction of the original show to Japan, a brief mention of the original media and toylines that were only released there, an assessment of the popularity of the franchise in Japan relative to other 'giant robot'-centric media like Gundam and NGE (Also, I've noticed that there is already a small "non-fiction" section that briefly touches on the importance of Japan to the Transformers: it could be used as a starting basis, and I guess that it also suggests someone already had the idea for a similar wiki-project!)
* The [[United States of America|United States]], also quite obviously: Brief summarization of the birth and sustained popularity of the Transformers brand in America, the most prominent retail exclusives that were only launched in U.S. stores, BotCon and all the other big fan conventions
<s>* [[United Kingdom]]: Received a pair of pre-Transformers toylines with the Grandstand Convertors and Tandy's Galactic Man, the UK Marvel Transformers comic, large conventions like TFNation and TFUKcon</s> '''(Done!)'''
* [[France]]: Received a pre-Transformers toyline with [[Joustra|Ceji / Joustra]] releasing Diaclone, Orli Jouet's Robotrack, later Joustra-made G1 Transformers toys, original cartoon had a [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itPo0Q9zmrc|a pretty funky unique theme song], major national toy company [[Majorette]] would briefly become a Transformers licensee in the 2000s
* [[Finland]]: Received a pre-Transformers toyline with Takara directly releasing Diaclone, "black Tracks" was unique to it (and later homaged with [[Loudpedal]])
* [[China]]: Hasbro factories, the Chinese G1 reissue toyline, the commercial success of Age of Extinction and how it brought about a sharp rise in the popularity of Transformers across the country, [[Nezha: Transformers (franchise)|Nezha]]
* [[South Korea]]: The unusual line-ups of [[Young Toys]] and [[Sonokong]], the mystery of [[ToonTown]]
* [[Mexico]]: [[IGA]] and their unique variants of G1 figures
* [[Venezuela]] (which somehow doesn't exist yet despite [[Transformers Comic-Magazin issue 17|already having an in-fiction mention]]?): [[Rubiplas]] made some unique Mini-Vehicles
<s>* [[Peru]]: [[Lynsa]] released multiple unique Mini-Vehicles in both countries, Museo Transformers</s> '''(Done!)'''
* [[Chile]]: Also received [[Lynsa]] Mini-Vehicles
* [[Vietnam]]: Major manufacturing hub for Transformers toys '''(Work in progress)'''
* [[Germany]]: GAMA's "Trans Robot" (pre-Transformers Omega Supreme), had the biggest Transformers convention in continental Europe until it dissolved not too long ago

:On an unrelated note, check out these fancy new GoBoxes down below! If anyone wants to do more in this style (quirky collage of country flag, plus national iconography, plus a Transformer toy that's emblematic of that specific country in some way) then that'd be pretty sweet! ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 17:47, 16 April 2025 (EDT))
<center>
[[File:GB-Portugal.jpg|link=Portugal]] [[File:GB-Greece.jpg|link=Greece]] [[File:GB-Brazil.jpg|link=Brazil]]
</center>
::Hey, I noticed that a lot of your claims aren't really sourced, it would be nice if you could cite your sources for us. [[User:Wildstrike|Wildstrike]] ([[User talk:Wildstrike|talk]]) 08:01, 21 April 2025 (EDT)
:::For sure! A lot of what's been added to these pages isn't cited because it is already discussed at greater length in their respective articles (and usually cited in said articles) - nonetheless; I will go ahead and add a more extensive round of sources soon. ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 12:54, 21 April 2025 (EDT))
:::: Great! Remember to post about that here when it happens. [[User:Wildstrike|Wildstrike]] ([[User talk:Wildstrike|talk]]) 13:45, 21 April 2025 (EDT)
::::: All done, I've provided as many citations for whatever information's more obscure or not as well-documented in the English web as I could! ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 16:21, 21 April 2025 (EDT))
:::::: Thank you! I appreciate it, though I have noticed that your source about Portuguese people seeing Star Convoy on retail is only available to members of the Facebook group. I understand that information for things like this is hard to come by so if can't change it it's alright but it would be great if you could list a publicly available source instead. [[User:Wildstrike|Wildstrike]] ([[User talk:Wildstrike|talk]]) 08:58, 22 April 2025 (EDT)
::::::: Oops, I didn't realize that Transformers Portugal was private on Facebook - but let this not be a problem, because I've just added a translated screenshot to that citation instead! Although I must also add that, unfortunately, I don't know how to really cite the later portion of that trivia - that Star Convoy is also really common on the Portuguese secondary market - because this is basically the product of my own personal experience of living in Portugal and seeing at least four loose Star Convoys on the Portuguese secondary market in the past couple of years across various occasions, all of them being the original version with the white trailer rather than the later reissue (thus suggesting that they come from the aforementioned retail distribution), and all of them being sold for really cheap prices rounding just ~20-40 euros from people who clearly did not know about this being an unusual toy (I got one myself one circa ~2022!). It's just that I frankly didn't know how to cite this in the page (Would "[[User:FortressMaxxing|This editor]] can attest to seeing an inordinate amount of Portuguese Star Convoy copies on the secondary market" be too anecdotal of a reference to have?), so... There's that. ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 13:04, 22 April 2025 (EDT))
:::::::: Don't worry, the fist citation should be enough, now's the time to move on to the rest of the countries. I'm a bit busy at the moment but I might be able to take on the UK write up. [[User:Wildstrike|Wildstrike]] ([[User talk:Wildstrike|talk]]) 13:53, 22 April 2025 (EDT)
::::::::: Sweet, I'll be excited to see what you write up! Tell us here when you do :) ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 13:58, 22 April 2025 (EDT))
:I made a first draft of the UK write-up at my sandbox [[User:Wildstrike/Sandbox/United_Kingdom|here]]. It is not at all done I'm passing this through the people to make sure I didn't get anything wrong, and to hear out any suggestions. Also I didn't mention the Tandy's Galactic Man figure because it doesn't seem to be exclusive to to the UK. [[User:Wildstrike|Wildstrike]] ([[User talk:Wildstrike|talk]]) 11:14, 26 April 2025 (EDT)
::Hey, it's good, short but very well-cited! I do think Galactic Man merits at least a brief one-line mention since apparently the UK was the only other territory beyond the U.S. where it was released in (and also the UK Galactic Man might be slightly different, per how the pre-TF page describes him as [[Pre-Transformers#Pre-Transformers lines|"''almost'' identical"]]?), but otherwise, I have no disagreement with the information presented here. Very curious to see how you're gonna expand on that draft! ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 18:46, 27 April 2025 (EDT))
:::Okay, I did a bit of research and according to the [https://astromagnum.blogspot.com/2024/04/galactic-man-tandy-radio-shack-shackwave.html Astro Magnum] blog the Tandy version of Galactic Man has slightly different packaging, different stickers, and is made of materials more resistant to the yellowing prevalent in the Radio Shack versions of the toy. I'll be sure to edit the draft when I have time. Also, I found about an [https://batterseapowerstation.co.uk/retailers/transformers/ official transformers store] at the Battersea power station which I plan on incorporating at some point. [[User:Wildstrike|Wildstrike]] ([[User talk:Wildstrike|talk]]) 11:49, 28 April 2025 (EDT)
:Ooohh, here's a pretty cool thing that I found out which definitely should be added to the Peru page: there's a mall [https://www.facebook.com/MuseoTF with a Transformers toy museum within it], and apparently it's been in operation since 2020! It even features a display specifically for [https://scontent.flis9-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/483676983_1040341464571272_305592738604936521_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=OsCqdAxWZTQQ7kNvwGe1-WQ&_nc_oc=Adn6enKyI9P6hsp1VO2t492l7iu8t1CtWQCm3bbMYXOemGAOpKTj-0fB96Co-Jhqnm4&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.flis9-1.fna&_nc_gid=0aKRlr6ClLSdhzhjlFM8cA&oh=00_AfFq1ClChLr67ItyZAhHBe0MPRKxcrRFUfQLY48v0THRPA&oe=68149CCC Transformers stuff made in Peru], which I think would be a great photographic addition to the article :) ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 20:36, 27 April 2025 (EDT))

:I've finally expanded my write-up (link [[User:Wildstrike/Sandbox/United_Kingdom|here]]), and would like to receive comment on it if possible. As for the ''Transformers'' store I mentioned above, I'm not quite sure how to incorporate it into the rest of the article and am debating just leaving it in the notes section. [[User:Wildstrike|Wildstrike]] ([[User talk:Wildstrike|talk]]) 12:06, 30 May 2025 (EDT)
::Hey, sorry for taking so long to review it but it's good! I think the Transformers store can be added as its own small (even if one-line) paragraph in the section, no need to throw it all the way down to notes when it's a definitely pretty relevant to the history of Transformers in the UK. Regardless, I'd say it's time to go live with that section! ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 00:24, 12 June 2025 (EDT))
:::It's finally live baby! As you may have noticed, I decided to expand the section a little bit more and mention some of the other British people that have worked on Transformers over the years as well as [[BotCon Europe 1999]], I hope you're happy with all the changes. — [[User:Wildstrike|Wildstrike]] ([[User talk:Wildstrike|talk]]) 15:05, 12 June 2025 (EDT)
:Per recent edits, I'm scratching out the UK and Peru pages off the list, as they now also have proper "Transformers in [Country]" sections (great job on the UK one by the way, it's pretty extensive and rich in information and I feel like I learned quite a few new things with it!). I also added Germany and Vietnam to the list, so if any TF fans from those nationalities are around to see this some help in filling those out wold be greatly appreciated! ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 08:22, 18 June 2025 (EDT))

== Size of this page ==

Could someone archive the last year on this page? It's getting ridiculously long and is hard to scroll through. [[User:Hilfam|Hilfam]] ([[User talk:Hilfam|talk]]) 19:48, 15 April 2025 (EDT)
:Done. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 20:25, 15 April 2025 (EDT)

== ToonTown / Korean Transformers that might or might not be bootlegs ==
Hey, so... What do we do about [https://x.com/tfwiki/status/1036114311142363136?lang=ar this], and [https://lmb3.net/2024/12/29/blog-2500-toy-review-transformers-korean-modified-optimus-prime/ this], and [https://tformers.com/daily-prime-korean-generation-2-optimus-prime-gold-watch/43599/news.html this], and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYJ8Nev7DGo this]? It basically seems like there's a massive ambiguity as to whether or not these toys are bootlegs, and while at least one of them (see the recently-edited "Globo" section on the [[knockoff]] page) has distinct bootleg origins, it's also worth remembering that there is [[Radio AM Robot|at least one known case of a bootleg being later rebranded into an official Transformers toy]], so... Maybe this is not much of an indicator?

In the replies to that first tweet, there's a person who says that "[https://x.com/tfwiki/status/1036114311142363136/ Hasbro's legal stance is that if it has their copyright on the box, it is an official product. This is what they've told me in the past when inquiring about other products]". Assuming that this is the case, and given that all of these have a Hasbro copyright on their packaging despite how genuinely weird they are, should we add them to their respective character pages, as well as maybe creating a separate page for ToonTown as a Transformers-associated company? The [[Soundwave (G1)/merchandise#Transformers Gum|Soundwave]] and [[Starscream (G1)/merchandise#Transformers Gum|Starscream]] ''Transformers Gum'' tabs already mention their ToonTown releases, so it seems like it kind of follows to add the others, no? I've left them a mention on the knockoff page as of now, but it would be good to get a final decision as to where exactly they should stay on this wiki. ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 21:58, 19 April 2025 (EDT))
:Decades ago, [[Raksha]] wrote that the Toon Town stuff had been released in both South Korea and Taiwan (https://web.archive.org/web/20080917123934fw_/http://www.plumed-serpent.com/swartifacts.html). Added to what you wrote above, I believe that is the sum of all the knowledge we have on the issue, so it would be hard to write an article about it. I agree that since we have the Soundwave and Starscream stuff, the other confirmed releases are fair game to include too. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 15:18, 7 May 2025 (EDT)
::Here's another one, this time not saying Toon Town, still showing the "real" logos and symbols, and said by its owner to be a knockoff: https://toy-wizards.com/2019/03/16/super-rare-korean-transformers-toys-at-tf-con-and-the-conspiracy-theory-behind-them/?amp I'm really drawing a blank on Toon Town and it is possible we will never get enough verified info to be worth an article here. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 18:53, 7 May 2025 (EDT)
:::One more source for now: http://fredsworkshop.com/vkorea.html --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 18:57, 7 May 2025 (EDT)

::::Argh, another, and with even more links at the bottom, and were no closer to a conclusive truth. http://fredsworkshop.com/vkorea5.html --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 19:05, 7 May 2025 (EDT)
:::::For what it's worth, I think it'd be good to have a page laying out the ambiguity of the matter, explaining what we know and how hard to verify it all is. Sorta like the [[unknown Generation 1 animation studios]]. --[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]]) 19:35, 7 May 2025 (EDT)
:::::: Yeah, I'd agree with this. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 20:45, 7 May 2025 (EDT)
::::::: Seconding this, it seems like we have more than enough to at least create an article about this weird company that explains the ambiguity. ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 01:15, 8 May 2025 (EDT))
:Alright, as per the above discussion, the [[ToonTown]] article is now up! I didn't go over every source mentioned here yet and therefore still haven't added every ToonTown-branded figure to it (and neither to the character pages, the currently existing wikilinks just to go their broader toy sections for now), but hopefully this is a good start. Would love to see your contributions to this page, if you have any to give! ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 09:09, 8 May 2025 (EDT))
::Update, the remaining ToonTown toys and merchandise that I could find has also been added. Turn out to be a shorter affair than expected! ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 09:53, 8 May 2025 (EDT))
:::Thank you for setting this up so quickly! I am doing my best to state very clearly that these might or might not be legit, that if they're knockoffs they aren't like your typical ones... The last thing I'd ever want would be for this wiki to give people the sense that fake stuff was real, but we can present the nebulous case and leave it to readers to judge. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 10:58, 8 May 2025 (EDT)
::::All good! This is just such an interesting case that it does really feel like it needs to be in the wiki insofar as we don't know whether or not they're fake. ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 11:07, 8 May 2025 (EDT))
::Hey, Google Lens led me to the discovery of another ToonTown oddity and I'd love some community help in finding out more about it before it's added into the article: [https://m.blog.naver.com/eoiipp/130144214329 This Optimus Prime model kit] doesn't appear to be based on any Kabaya / Transformers Gum kit that I know of (and the Transformers Gum section on the Optimus merchandise page says that his ToonTown kit comes as a pack-in with Starscream rather than being a standalone like this one), and in fact; he actually looks to be fairly sizable and complex compared to the usual Kabaya affair. On [https://m.totoy.com/product/%EB%AF%B8%EB%8B%B4%EC%82%B0%EC%97%85-%ED%8A%B8%EB%9E%9C%EC%8A%A4%ED%8F%AC%EB%A8%B8-g2-%EB%A1%9C%EB%B4%87-%ED%8A%B8%EB%A0%88%EC%9D%BC%EB%9F%AC-%EC%98%B5%ED%8B%B0%EB%A8%B8%EC%8A%A4-%ED%94%84%EB%9D%BC%EC%9E%84/5333/ this listing] for the same kit, you can zoom in and see what seems to be the usual ToonTown / 3D Licensing International markings, but most importantly; both of those links identify him as being made by a company called "Midam Industry" which even seems to have its own unique logo on the upper right corner of the toys (albeit it's pretty difficult to make out with how low-res all these pictures are), but that I can't find anything about them on the web. Does anyone know more about this Midam Industry Optimus, as well as maybe potentially being aware of other kits from the same series? Cheers! ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 16:46, 8 May 2025 (EDT))
:::After searching for a little while, I believe that this is, in fact, the only Transformers kit released by Midam Industry (although it has a handful of variants!), thus; it - as well as a Midam Industry entry - has been added to their respective pages. I've taken the liberty to classify it as a toy rather than a piece of merchandise since it is, for the standards of a Transformers model kit, actually a fairly elaborate and fully-transforming model that doesn't really seem to count as "merchandise" in the same way that Transformers Gum stuff does (it doesn't even come with any food!) - hopefully others will be in agreement on this. ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 19:16, 8 May 2025 (EDT))
::::And, just as I thought I was done with editing the ToonTown page for the day, I realized that the packaging for these kits advertises other kits, even though no pictures of those seem to be available. Aw well, duty calls... ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 19:31, 8 May 2025 (EDT))

== Proposing a "The Transformers (Latin American toylines)" page ==
So the title is self-explanatory, but basically; I've noticed that our Generation 1 navbox is missing the many, many Latin American Transformers G1 toylines like those produced by [[Estrela]], [[Antex]], [[Lynsa]], [[IGA]], etc. Since there might be way too many for them to all to be individually listed in the navbox, and since we already have the "[[The Transformers (toyline)]]" (for the US toyline), "[[The Transformers (European toyline)]]", "[[Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers (toyline)|Generation 1 (Japanese toyline)]]", and "[[The Transformers (Chinese toyline)]]" pages all on the navbox, shouldn't we also make a "The Transformers (Latin American toylines)" page where we list all of the known releases from the various Latin American toylines, with the eventual addition of some "Main article" tags for the manufacturers of each of those toylines? ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 19:49, 24 April 2025 (EDT))
:I don't think the toyline or name was consistent across Latin America, so it would be more "Generation 1 toylines in Latin America"?
::That's fair, it is true that most of them removed the 'The' prefix and were usually just called ''Transformers''. Since we don't use the ''The Transformers'' name for the Japanese toyline page then it does make sense to also not use it in this instance. ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 22:33, 24 April 2025 (EDT))
:[[Generation 1 toylines in Latin America|Page has been made!]] ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 17:17, 25 April 2025 (EDT))

== Free Comic Book Day Worst Bot Ever preview ==

I know it’s standard procedure not to create articles for comic issues until the issue actually comes out, even if a small preview is officially released online. But I’m wondering if the Ballpoint preview issue should be an exception? It is just the online page preview Skybound put out a few months ago (I believe with a couple new pages), but since it is an officially released physical comic issue that new fans will be picking up and wanting to research, I figure there’s an argument to create the article now with what we know and simply update it when the graphic novel proper comes out. For now, the article would cover what’s in the FCBD issue, and when it comes out proper we’d add to/replace it with a full synopsis and include a note about how the first 16 pages were released on FCBD. Thoughts? [[User:Cylasbreakdown|Cylasbreakdown]] ([[User talk:Cylasbreakdown|talk]]) 16:58, 3 May 2025 (EDT)

== Shattered Glass and cross-continuity-family pages ==

Felt like this was worth being discussed in its own section, so: at present, [[Unicron]], [[Primus]] and [[Alpha Trion]] all have dedicated "Shattered Glass" subpages suited out. They're unique in this respect; every other page for concepts that span multiple continuity families keep the Shattered Glass versions on the same page as everything else. A good example is [[Spark]]; even though Embers have a different name and are supposedly fundamentally different in the mirror universe, they still share a page. If we're going to treat Unicron, Primus and the Thirteen like cross-continuity concepts, rather than how we treat most characters, then I don't think we should make an exception to that for Shattered Glass.

To be clear, '''this is NOT proposing that we merge all Shattered Glass characters into their G1 counterparts'''. My position is that Shattered Glass is its own continuity family, and so we keep their pages separate, and I don't think there's something special about Shattered Glass that makes it an exception to what we're doing with the cross-continuity pages. Input would be appreciated. --[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]]) 16:52, 14 May 2025 (EDT)
: I agree. Especially because Primus and Unicron have about a paragraph's worth of information on them each. [[User:Locoman|Locoman]] ([[User talk:Locoman|talk]]) 18:21, 14 May 2025 (EDT)
: SG is different enough that the character pages should be separated somehow. Otherwise it’d be jarring for those unfamiliar with SG to have the one batshit crazy evil Alpha Trion in and amongst all the nice ones. Personally, I’m on the same boat as Sabrblade back up in the Thirteen discussion from a few months ago. I think suite pages are a useful tool, not a necessary evil. It’s somewhat subjective, but I can see suite pages used in this way for other cross-continuity concepts where one universe diverges far enough from the norm. [[User:Cylasbreakdown|Cylasbreakdown]] ([[User talk:Cylasbreakdown|talk]]) 18:49, 15 May 2025 (EDT)
::Moreso than one crazy evil [[Star Saber (G1)|Star Saber]] in and among all the nice ones? I don't think you're giving readers enough credit, frankly. If we opened the section "In one mirror universe, Alpha Trion was not a kindly mentor, but a cruel manipulator" I don't think anyone would think twice. --[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]]) 22:25, 15 May 2025 (EDT)
:::Touché. [[User:Cylasbreakdown|Cylasbreakdown]] ([[User talk:Cylasbreakdown|talk]]) 02:04, 16 May 2025 (EDT)
:I was waiting to weigh in until the Alpha Trion merge was fully complete, but I now feel comfortable saying this strikes me as basically reasonable, both conceptually and in terms of the small volume of material involved. The Fallen's [[The Fallen#Shattered Glass|''Shattered Glass'' content]] is already folded into his main page by necessity, after all. I do think people might feel less skittish if we more clearly telegraphed that the 13+2 were unique character/concept article hybrids not to be used as precedent down the food chain. Maybe something like:
::* Category:Concept-Characters
::*With a description like, "These subjects act as facets of the ''Transformers'' brand's baseline worldbuilding first and characters in their own right second. For the defunct fictional concept riffing on this phenomenon, see [[multiversal singularity]]."
:Is that anything? --[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 18:20, 26 May 2025 (EDT)
::I like that idea. - [[User:IGEBM13|IGEBM13]] ([[User talk:IGEBM13|talk]]) 20:52, 26 May 2025 (EDT)
:::Seems like an excellent idea to me! --[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]]) 00:07, 27 May 2025 (EDT)
::::Yeah, seems alright for now. However, I do think it's worth having some kind of plan in place in case a concept-character winds up getting expanded on in the future. — [[User:Wildstrike|Wildstrike]] ([[User talk:Wildstrike|talk]]) 04:50, 2 June 2025 (EDT)
::::: I do like the category idea. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 18:51, 5 June 2025 (EDT)
Last call for objections before I go ahead with this? --[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]]) 16:01, 12 June 2025 (EDT)
:I think there's an exception to be made for Alpha Trion, as the SG page is pretty long, and still incomplete, but otherwise, yeah; was surprised by how short SG Primus and Unicron's articles are. [[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] ([[User talk:Alientraveller|talk]]) 16:24, 12 June 2025 (EDT)
:: It's not very long compared to the rest of the page, especially considering the toys are already on Trion's toys page. I feel like if we were gonna split a section off for length reasons it'd be Generation 1. --[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]]) 20:55, 12 June 2025 (EDT)

== Interwiki link request ==

Having reached another milestone in my ongoing project to document the non-''Transformers'' [[back-up strips]] printed in the Marvel UK book, I'd like to request that tfuk.app (<tt><nowiki>https://tfuk.app/wiki/$1</nowiki></tt>) gets added to the interwiki table. Thanks. [[User:TheLastGherkin|TheLastGherkin]] ([[User talk:TheLastGherkin|talk]]) 11:11, 20 May 2025 (EDT)
:Goddamn, this is an incredible amount of work: more than being added to the interwiki table, it frankly feels worthy of being pinned into the "sister wikis" section on the opening page. Great job! ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 12:08, 20 May 2025 (EDT))
::Seconding Fortress on front page sister wiki status, frankly. --[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 12:31, 20 May 2025 (EDT)
::Thirded on adding it to the sister wikis list, that’s amazing. - [[User:IGEBM13|IGEBM13]] ([[User talk:IGEBM13|talk]]) 16:07, 20 May 2025 (EDT)
::Fourthing! -- [[User:DannyBoy|DannyBoy]] ([[User talk:DannyBoy|talk]]) 10:19, 21 May 2025 (EDT)
:That seems eminently reasonable: [[tfuk:Main Page|The Transformers UK Appendix]] --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 16:15, 20 May 2025 (EDT)
::Thank you! [[User:TheLastGherkin|TheLastGherkin]] ([[User talk:TheLastGherkin|talk]]) 17:32, 20 May 2025 (EDT)

== Skybound’s Marvel compendium edits ==

So I’ve got Skybound’s [[The Transformers Compendium Volume 1]] in hand and am reading it. I was under the impression that Skybound was, for the most part, just using IDW’s Classics reprint with maybe some polish here and there, but comparing Skybound’s version to the wiki notes about IDW classics edits, there are actually several changes from those that are going to need to be noted on each issue’s article. (For instance, the Wheeljack/Hoist panel comparison on [[I, Robot-Master!]] has a new color scheme to add to it.) Are we gonna want to make a new section on each article underneath the “Classics edits” one? Are we gonna want to wait until the Kickstarter-exclusive versions come out so we can do it all at once? (I’m just talking about differences I’ve noticed while ''skimming'' articles; I imagine there are lots more. This is the first time I’ve read the comic and thus I don’t have originals/IDW reprints to directly compare to. Just something I wanted to bring to your guys’ attention.) [[User:Cylasbreakdown|Cylasbreakdown]] ([[User talk:Cylasbreakdown|talk]]) 02:04, 1 June 2025 (EDT)
:Making a new section under "Classics Edits" seems like the best move. As for the second question, I feel it would be best if we started making note of the changes now so that there will be less work to when the Kickstarter exclusives do release. — [[User:Wildstrike|Wildstrike]] ([[User talk:Wildstrike|talk]]) 04:58, 2 June 2025 (EDT)

== Continuity of origin listings? ==
I happened to see the [[Sentius Magnus]] and [[Sentius Malus]], and that sent me looking to see if there were any other new characters unique to [[Transformers: Earth Wars|Earth Wars]]. When I couldn't find any such listing, I realized I don't think we have any real way to identify original characters by their original continuity. Might it make sense to have, say, categories for brand-new characters that originated in each continuity? i.e. "Earth Wars original characters" or "IDW 2005 original characters" or "Marvel comics original characters", etc? Or, if not categories, some way of compiling that information? Also, to be clear, I wouldn't consider characters that began as toys to be original to whatever fiction they first appeared in; this would just be for the likes of the aforementioned Sentius twins, or [[Xaaron (G1)|Xaaron]], or [[Devcon (G1)|Devcon]], or [[Tarn (G1)|Tarn]]. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] ([[User talk:Dark T Zeratul|talk]]) 06:29, 16 June 2025 (EDT)
:I think that would be a good idea, and very helpful organization-wise. (Also, you’re correct in that there are no other TFEW-original characters beyond maybe SB Optimus Prime and SB Megatron.) - [[User:IGEBM13|IGEBM13]] ([[User talk:IGEBM13|talk]]) 09:09, 16 June 2025 (EDT)
: I feel that would be unnecessary, fans can find it out by looking at the work page. [[User:Vrung|Vrung]] ([[User talk:Vrung|talk]]) 16:53, 16 June 2025 (EDT)
::Unless there's a way I missed, the only way to "figure it out" by looking at the work page is to individually check the pages for every single listed character appearance to see if they've ever appeared anywhere else. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] ([[User talk:Dark T Zeratul|talk]]) 20:33, 16 June 2025 (EDT)

==Concept characters and sorting by continuity family==
Based on discussions above, I've implemented [[:Category:Deep lore characters|Category:Concept characters]] to cover things like the Thirteen and Primus and Unicron. However, I've noticed that these pages seem to have been rearranged so they aren't sorted by continuity family, except in the case of the movie and Aligned families? I gather that it's to "preserve the flow of conceptual development", but that seems silly when we have "conceputal history" sections on the relevant characters. Other concept pages (e.g. [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] are sorted by family, so this just seems unintuitive. --[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]]) 19:49, 18 June 2025 (EDT)
:I agree; we've always tried to sort concepts and ideas by continuity family and it's more confusing if we start arbitrarily enforcing this standard on some pages but not on others. [[User:Locoman|Locoman]] ([[User talk:Locoman|talk]]) 20:00, 18 June 2025 (EDT)
::I concur that how we've been organizing big pages like this by continuity family makes sense, especially if they have "Conceptual history" sections. Like, it's weird to jump around from a G1 section, to a Beast Era section, to a UT section, and then back to a G1 section, then to a Movie section, then Aligned, then back to another G1, then back to another Movie, then back to G1 again, then Cyberverse, then G1 again, then another Movie, and so forth. Just let the "Conceptual history" sections do their job. And if there isn't one, then, well... why not make one? They only ''enhance'' each article that has one. I'd say an article like "[[Cybertron (planet)]]" could definitely benefit from a good "Conceptual history" section of its own. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 20:00, 18 June 2025 (EDT)
:::Agreed on all fronts. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 20:20, 18 June 2025 (EDT)
I think if we're going to have cross-continuity pages for whatever reason, because the "continuity family" thing isn't working... why then organize the pages that way? "G1 continuity family" is a unit of wiki organization, not a Real Thing either narratively or creatively, unlike Aligned or Movieverse. That feels like trying to have our cake and eat it—either we're organizing things by continuity family or we aren't. IDW Megatronus is more linked to Aligned Megatronus than Dreamwave Fallen. Why does it make sense to put IDW and Dreamwave together in terms of the character? Forget arbitrary wiki categorization for a minute and ask what's the intended throughline there. Are we presenting the character's evolution in a logical way or are we simply sticking to continuity families because arbitrary wiki organization? (Also an excessive amount of tiny headers as you force them all down one level looks awful.) [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 21:00, 18 June 2025 (EDT)
:I don't buy that "movieverse" is any less arbitrary than "G1 continuity family". None of the Alpha Trion entries sorted under "movie continuity family" have anything to do with each other. I would argue that using continuity families for these pages provides a reasonable measure of organisation to make it easier to find specific fiction entries rather than having to scroll through the entire history of the character. --[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]]) 21:19, 18 June 2025 (EDT)
::Not to beat the dead horse, but that's why we had separate pages in the first place. Movieverse fiction uses the movies as the fundamental springing board for their narrative (and is especially relevant to the Fallen). G1 does not have that and is purely organized by aesthetics and convenience. Why are Cyberverse, EarthSpark, and Wild King not "G1" while IDW1 is? Arbitrary convenience. Which is fine, but it still drills in the point that it's not a meaningful categorization narratively or creatively, especially if we're going to eschew it at the article level regardless. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 21:51, 18 June 2025 (EDT
:::I simply think we should be consistent about how we sort fiction sections within "concept" articles. To use [[Cybertron (planet)]] as an example again, should we no longer organise the fiction entries on that page by continuity family? If you think so, fine, but I think that's a poor idea. --[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]]) 21:55, 18 June 2025 (EDT)
::::That page seems to eschew the Fiction header in the first place (which does take care of my tiny header complaint, I suppose), so it's not quite consistent to begin with. But I don't really consider location and character pages to have the same considerations; Cybertron is pretty much the same across all continuities (backstory varies, yes, but mechanical homeworld of the Transformers is always the status quo) while characters are always shifting, changing, and bringing forward new ideas into next iterations. (Gun to my head, yes, I would prefer chronological, but planet articles are not a priority to me.) [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 22:09, 18 June 2025 (EDT)
:::::Right, but the thing about the Thirteen et al is that they ''don't'' have the same considerations as other characters, so we treat them the same as other cross-continuity concept articles. I don't think they should have their own unique format that's the only thing on the wiki that ''completely'' eschews continuity families for organisation. --[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]]) 22:59, 18 June 2025 (EDT)
Two questions: 1. Are we talking about just the organization of Thirteen/Primus/Unicron pages or across the board, new standard for all pages? 2. For either side (organize by continuity family vs organize by chronology/release date), are there examples of pages with either formatting that can serve as proof of concepts or visuals that show why that specific way is the better one? [[User:Daytonjhammon|Daytonjhammon]] ([[User talk:Daytonjhammon|talk]]) 21:15, 18 June 2025 (EDT)

Bit of an aside but is there a different or more distinct category name we could use? For me and most tf fans I know "Concept characters" brings to mind "concept art" characters, aka unused designs and the like. I think renaming it to "Cross-continuity concept characters" or something similar would make it clearer. —[[User:BluJayWarrior|BluJayWarrior]] ([[User talk:BluJayWarrior|talk]]) 22:39, 18 June 2025 (EDT)
:That would be fine by me, yeah. --[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]]) 22:59, 18 June 2025 (EDT)
::Yeah, this was the problem that jumped out at me when I first saw the term proposed. Some other suggestions: continuity-agnostic, pan-continuity, meta-continuity, conceptual, lore, mythological, cosmological, multiversal, archetypal, foundational. I don't have a strong preference, just throwing these out there. —[[User:The Wadapan|wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 12:54, 19 June 2025 (EDT)
:::conceptual, lore, and mythological feel a bit too... intangible ig? multiversal is way too close to multiversal singularity imo. I'd say continuity-agnostic, pan-continuity or meta-continuity would all be good. (personally leaning towards meta-continuity) [[User:Arren1234|--Arren Meuchel]] ([[User talk:Arren1234|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2025 (EDT)

I'm definitely sympathetic towards [[User:Saix|Saix]] with regards to this specific change. The Thirteen are pretty much the tentpole for the "aligned" worldbuilding which pretty much marked the ''end'' of continuity families in the traditional sense, from a creative perspective at Hasbro (not that the concept was one they were considering to begin with). As he says, everything is G1 now, IDW is aligned, ''Cyberverse'' is IDW, and so on. After consideration I prefer the way he's laid it out. ''However'', there's also obviously an argument to be made from a wiki-consistency standpoint, and I want to state for the record that I don't think such a major reorganisation of those pages' contents should have been implemented without a consensus being reached on talkpages ''first''. This should have been a sandboxed proposal, not just something that was done hoping nobody would notice or care enough to raise an objection themselves. —[[User:The Wadapan|wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 12:54, 19 June 2025 (EDT)

I apologize if I'm a bit off-base here, since I haven't been following these discussions as closely as some, but it seems to me that there are fundamentally two different things that are being presented here: the evolution of the character concept, and the actual fictional history of the various iterations of the character. If that's the case, wouldn't a good solution be to make a separate section for the former while continuing to organize the latter by continuity family like every other page? -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] ([[User talk:Dark T Zeratul|talk]]) 14:57, 19 June 2025 (EDT)

== Commentary trivia ==

Something I find a bit sad is commentary sounding Trivia having to be deleted from episode pages. Those are funny and can be interesting to see, shame they also hog space. Can there be a middle ground where I cam dump them into, say, wild king episodes Synopsis without sounding...unprofessional? (Because the commentary is one of the best parts of some episode descriptions...)[[User:Poliwag06|Poliwag06]] ([[User talk:Poliwag06|talk]]) 00:02, 3 July 2025 (EDT)

== Mentioned characters ==

Something I did back when I was revamping our coverage of the BotCon/Club stuff was add a "mentioned characters" section to the notes; for examples, see [[Cybertron's Most Wanted]], [[Gone Too Far]], and other stories linked to on the [[Transformers Timelines (fiction)]] page. It's something that we lack on other pages, and I think that it's worth implementing; in particular, when looking through some of James Roberts' work recently for a side project, I was struck by how often characters that otherwise never appear on page are mentioned. What I wanna propose is adding something like to this our media pages in general.

The Problem: I think that the benefits speak for themselves, but it does also come against the fact that we have hundreds (if not thousands) of episodes/comics/other media by this point, and that it's going to be a non-trivial amount of work getting this up to speed. For that reason, I don't really think a template is the best way to go about, especially if they're going to be sitting empty until someone goes back to read those comics or rewatch that episode or whatever. What I do think might be worth considering is that we add in something about doing it for media pages in their notes section here on out, so that we can have a headstart on at least the currently published stuff; once it becomes something feasible for a template on various pages, then I think we can revisit that idea. For my end, I've been contemplating a re-read of the comics for a few years now, and I'm more than happy to add stuff over the time I do that.

If anyone has any suggestions or comments, please respond here. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 10:22, 9 July 2025 (EDT)
:I always liked how Wookieepedia lists every proper noun in "Appearances" sections ([https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Episode_V_The_Empire_Strikes_Back#Appearances example]). I think this concept should expand to include locations, weapons, et al.—basically everything we would make a page for. Yes, it's work to add stuff, but that's editing. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 10:32, 9 July 2025 (EDT)
::That sounds like something that could be pretty beneficial information-wise, even if it’s a lot of work. I can definitely start doing something like it for my ''Earth Wars'' write-ups as I go through the event stories. - [[User:IGEBM13|IGEBM13]] ([[User talk:IGEBM13|talk]]) 10:49, 9 July 2025 (EDT)
:I definitely remember thinking—back when you were regularly working on the Fun Publications pages—that your exhaustive approach to filling out the notes sections with mentioned characters and concepts was ''really useful'', but that it could stand to be formalised in some way. As you say, it'd be a huge amount of work to bring articles for even the most popular stories up to that standard. —[[User:The Wadapan|wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 11:20, 9 July 2025 (EDT)
::I agree this is something it would be valuable to do going forwards. --[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]])

== Plagiarism on the other site ==
Basically every EarthSpark character page on the other site is a copy-paste of our own. Some of Cyberverse too. Do we care about this? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 09:34, 11 July 2025 (EDT)
:I think the important first question is whether there's any attribution (though I assume the answer will be no). -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] ([[User talk:Dark T Zeratul|talk]]) 15:53, 11 July 2025 (EDT)
::As in, "this was written by TFWiki" or "this is a unique article we here at Fandom invented"? We can see which users have been doing the copy-pasting. There's one in particular who pasted in Earthspark content (just choose a character), another who has been doing some weapons (i.e. [[Electro-scrambler]]). I know full well that fan wikis tend to get copied, so if our position is to simply disregard everything Fandom does, we can stick to that. But their site has, supposedly, had a black-and-white policy dating right back to the split that copying from us is not allowed. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 08:29, 12 July 2025 (EDT)
:::I think it could be to try and make the fandom wikis page look as good the pages here are. I confess, I did the same to bulbapedia and the fandom pokemon wiki.[[User:Poliwag06|Poliwag06]] ([[User talk:Poliwag06|talk]]) 13:12, 12 July 2025 (EDT)
:::I see no reason to not make a stink about it to whatever passes for admin there. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 13:14, 12 July 2025 (EDT)
::::Thylacine - According to CC BY-SA 3.0, they are free to copy our material as long as they provide credit that it was copied from us. If they ''don't'' do that, and I'm very much assuming they don't, then we should absolutely raise hell about it, as M Sipher suggests.
::::As an example, after Wowpedia moved to wiki.gg and became Warcraft Wiki, Fandom put a blanket ban on linking to wiki.gg (for bullshit reasons) and so we've been aggressively deleting any Wowpedia pages that were copied from us because they are functionally unable to provide proper attribution and their staff fucked up and never depowered one of our admins. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] ([[User talk:Dark T Zeratul|talk]]) 14:31, 13 July 2025 (EDT)a
:::::They are definitely not providing any credit, and they also still have ''as their very first listed policy'' "no copying from Wikipedia or TFWiki." transformers dot fandom dot com/wiki/Transformers_Wiki:Policies#Plagiarism --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 16:29, 13 July 2025 (EDT)

Their site lists four admins, of whom two are obviously long retired. One who was last active in May is the source of some of the plagiarism, and also showed themself to be unresponsive to multiple direct questions posted on their wall by Fandom higher-ups. That leaves the one who was last active in June. I wrote that one a message summarizing all this as best I can, bearing in mind that systematically comparing pages on some other peoples' wiki is not at all something I am interested in doing. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 10:02, 14 July 2025 (EDT)
:Honestly, failing any response from their admins (which I will imagine will be the case), I think anyone happening to spot plagiarised material can happily just go ahead and delete it on the spot, citing their own policy of not copying from TFWiki. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 10:11, 14 July 2025 (EDT)
::A response: transformers dot fandom dot com/wiki/Message_Wall:Moviejunkie2009

::I msged the other suggested admins, no response. I did NOT msg the suggested Fandom "community manager" because they have no reason to help us, if anything I expect their response would be to simply erase the relict, circa-2008 anti-plagiarism policy that the current community knows nothing about.

::I do ''not'' enjoy scanning their New Articles page every day and maxing out my allowed daily edits by blanking the neverending incoming pasted pages. I am going to stop doing this. It pisses me off that a zero-effort community can ignore its own rules and steal our work, but it feels even worse to compulsively devote my free time to marginally cleaning up a zero-effort community's messes. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 20:07, 17 July 2025 (EDT)

== The General commercial with Bumblebee and Shaq ==

I think we should have information on this commercial for The General with Bumblebee and Shaq:

https://tformers.com/watch-bumblebee-shaq-acting-up-in-new-the-general-insurance-spot/55134/news.html
--[[User:John Pannozzi|John Pannozzi]] ([[User talk:John Pannozzi|talk]]) 13:11, 26 July 2025 (EDT)

== Maintenance heads up ==

Just to let everyone know, I'm going to take the site offline temporarily in about an hour for maintenance. Should not be offline for too long, hopefully. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 02:24, 29 August 2025 (EDT)
:And we're back. Thank you for your patience.--[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 03:43, 29 August 2025 (EDT)
::Thank you for your work, abates! [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 03:53, 29 August 2025 (EDT)

== Coverage idea ==

We should add a "Major events" section to the episode articles. It helps keep track of events alongside continuity notes and could help finding specific episodes better.[[User:Poliwag06|Poliwag06]] ([[User talk:Poliwag06|talk]]) 19:07, 16 September 2025 (EDT)
:Struggling to picture what exactly that would look like. --[[User:Arren1234 |Arren Meuchel]] [[User_talk:Arren1234 |(talk)]] 15:07, 17 September 2025 (EDT)
::Like a Major Events header, then the body text is any important Events that happen in the episode. (E.g. Darkest Hour in TFP: The autobot base is destroyed)[[User:Poliwag06|Poliwag06]] ([[User talk:Poliwag06|talk]]) 01:38, 13 October 2025 (EDT)
:::Perhaps you could put together an example on a sandbox page? [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 06:55, 14 October 2025 (EDT)
::::Uh, idk how to make sandboxes. There are examples over on Bulbapedia though, so that should give a rough idea on what im suggesting. [[User:Poliwag06|Poliwag06]] ([[User talk:Poliwag06|talk]]) 08:02, 14 October 2025 (EDT)
:::::https://tfwiki.net/wiki/User:Poliwag06/Sandbox [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 09:55, 14 October 2025 (EDT)
:::::: I think this works for something like Bulbapedia because Pokemon is a pretty episodic 1000 episode anime with a set of regular events that it's useful to track (X caught / traded / lost a Pokemon / gym battle), whereas Transformers doesn't really work the same way? And things similar to that are already tracked in the trivia notes (the Alchemor prisoner manifest) or kinda fall into listicles which aren't popular (ie who used Cyber Keys that episode, what mini-cons were collected). Trying to qualify what counts as a "major event" outside of, say, "Character debuts / final appearances", which are also already in the trivia notes for for some series (definitely Animated, maybe others), especially in plot terms, feels difficult and liable to cruft and for people to just read the headline of the article. [[User:AkibaSilver|AkibaSilver]] ([[User talk:AkibaSilver|talk]]) 18:01, 14 October 2025 (EDT)
:::::::Yeah, the notes already serve as a pseudo-"major events" section with all the stuff you just named, and if you were to look for anything else to add you’d probably end up with something that has so many details it may as well just be the synopsis. - [[User:IGEBM13|IGEBM13]] ([[User talk:IGEBM13|talk]]) 20:53, 14 October 2025 (EDT)

== Overview of pre-TF page ==
Hey, just posting here to provide a wiki-wide notification of sorts that I started an "Overview" section on the [[Pre-Transformers]] page and it's in dire need of some chunks of summarized information primarily regarding Diaclone and Micro Change and their respective Transformers localizations, as per the various stub markers left in specific sections. It feels like that page has been needing a proper written history of pre-TFs for a while now, so if anyone could help me fill it out then I'd be glad! ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 22:14, 12 October 2025 (EDT))
:I'll see about taking a crack at the Diaclone bits as I can. --[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 00:37, 13 October 2025 (EDT)
::Thank you for volunteering, and wow, I had no idea about [[Horloge Robot]]: his page has now been made! ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 05:06, 13 October 2025 (EDT))
:::Wahey, thank you! As you can imagine I'd been meaning to get around to that for ages. --[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 12:45, 13 October 2025 (EDT)

== Overgear continuity ==
Maybe I'm asking this question a bit too early since we only have a vague premise and prototype images for [[Transformers Overgear]], but... Should we archive the figures released underneath it under their characters' G1 pages (when applicable) as it is usually done with odd Takara releases, or should they get entirely new pages instead? This feels like a toyline with a very distinct concept from most other regular ''Transformers'' assortments, so I'm frankly leaning on the latter. ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 22:27, 16 October 2025 (EDT))
:It’s probably too early. And jumping the gun has bitten us in the ass before. Remember [[Cliffjumper (Yolopark)|Ladybug?]] [[User:Cylasbreakdown|Cylasbreakdown]] ([[User talk:Cylasbreakdown|talk]]) 12:40, 17 October 2025 (EDT)

== Proposing a comedic category for fraud ==

Given the ongoing hubhub over the probable scammers who call themselves [[Mbilia Studios]], how about we make up a "Category:Fraud" or "Category:Fraudsters" like we have "Category:Things that don't exist"? Pat Lee and Dreamwave Productions come to mind as possible members for such a wiki category. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 08:22, 4 November 2025 (EST)
:I see where you’re coming from but it also would be a massive vandal magnet. [[User:Hyperious|Hyperious]] ([[User talk:Hyperious|talk]]) 08:35, 4 November 2025 (EST)

::that also sounds legally actionable in a way the wiki probably doesn't want to deal with. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] ([[User talk:Hooper X|talk]]) 10:14, 4 November 2025 (EST)
:::Yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyeah nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnoooooooo let's not. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 14:01, 4 November 2025 (EST)
::::Sounds like a bad idea to me as well... - [[User:IGEBM13|IGEBM13]] ([[User talk:IGEBM13|talk]]) 16:52, 4 November 2025 (EST)
:Joining in to say that yeah, I also agree that this is a bad idea. But I do think that the Mbilia Studios page needs a Controversy section at the very least, the Trivia portion is ridiculously cluttered and it feels like a lot of it would be more comfortably read as just part of a standard couple of paragraphs. ([[User:FortressMaxxing|FortressMaxxing]] ([[User talk:FortressMaxxing|talk]]) 07:45, 12 November 2025 (EST))
::Agreed. I don't think we need that much detailing of how bad the AI video is. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 09:19, 12 November 2025 (EST)

== Binder of Revelation Illustration Credits ==
Okay, don't kill me here, I'm just hoping that the artists who contributed to the Binder fifteen-ish years ago get their proper due since it's out in the open now. I got in touch with the art director of the Binder of Revelation and have a fairly complete list of credits for who did what illustration. Since this isn't actually a published work, how do we go about giving proper illustration credits? Do we even credit anyone? Considering the document itself has no credits, I feel like it's worthwhile that the artists get recognized, even if we aren't putting any images up ourselves. [[User:MCRG|MCRG]] ([[User talk:MCRG|talk]]) 21:37, 25 November 2025 (EST)
:I don't think this is objectionable info to note at the least. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 23:03, 25 November 2025 (EST)
::For now, maybe put your raw info on a sandbox so we can get a better sense of it? Most of the Binder art I know of was by Ken Christiansen, for instance, so if all but a few pieces are by him, it would seem silly to list them all individually. But I'm guessing it's more varied than that. —[[User:The Wadapan|wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 00:26, 26 November 2025 (EST)
:::It's a pretty wide spread, surprisingly. A lot of the pieces are tag team works where Eric Siebenaler did roughs and other artists did the finals, but it's around 5-10 artists without me checking the exact notes at the moment. I'll start getting that together.[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] ([[User talk:MCRG|talk]]) 14:41, 26 November 2025 (EST)
::::All known credits added. On a side note, is it worth pointing out somewhere that the Binder itself is written in the style of a RPG manual instead of an actual franchise bible? It goes a long way in explaining why it was so quickly disregarded by other creative teams when comparing it to bibles from other franchises or just other series bibles within Transformers on the whole, and the pricetag attached to the project.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] ([[User talk:MCRG|talk]]) 15:23, 21 January 2026 (EST)

== What are we calling the new "Core" Transformers stuff? ==

So... what should we call the new generically branded "Transformers" toys that have been showing up? (Prime Changers, Smash Changers, Tiny Turbo Changers, maybe more in the future). Should it be a separate new thing or maybe part of [[Transformers Authentics|''Authentics'']]? The Prime Changer [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#Authentics|Optimus]], [[Bumblebee (G1)/toys#Authentics|Bumbleebee]], and [[Megatron (G1)/toys#PrimeChanger|Megatron]] were previously added under ''Authentics'', while someone just started using "Transformers (2026)" for the Tiny Turbo [[Arcee (G1)/toys#Tiny Turbo Changers|Arcee]] and [[Elita One (G1)#Tiny Turbo Changers|Elita]], which got me thinking that we should probably figure this out soon. From what I've gathered they all use "TRA Core" in their listing names, but their packaging design seems identical to current ''Authentics'' packaging design, also lacking a distinct subtitle and focusing on "Evergreen" characters to start off. Then again, Hasbro homogenizing all their packaging designs in the last year makes it hard to tell if this line is meant to be its own thing. Though it is notable that unlike prior ''Authentics'', this "Core" line is using bigger size classes and is available at bigger retailers like Target instead of dollar stores. –[[User:BluJayWarrior|BluJayWarrior]] ([[User talk:BluJayWarrior|talk]]) 18:24, 13 January 2026 (EST)

:I was JUST adding a section here and rather than rewriting... 
:Okay just kinda checking in, because thanks to Hasbro's goddamn infuriating thing about not promoting/announcing anything other than the expensive collector crap, the load of sub-line-less not-''Authentics'' "Core" stuff hitting Targets (at least, has anything popped up at Walmart?) is a bit of a "how do we handle this" deal. Both "how much product is there" and "do we treat this as a separate line, as an extension of Authentics despite it not being a 'discount' store line, or what". I'm leaning towards "just list it as its own line with G1 characters unless pretty explicitly otherwise". --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 18:30, 13 January 2026 (EST)
::Oh right, Walmart. Off memory they do have the ''Authentics''-styled [[Bumblebee (G1)/toys#MegaSting|Mega Sting Bumbleebee]] (could also be considered a "larger price point" I guess). No clue if any listings gave it a separate name like "Core" has. Walmart also has a bunch of merch stuff in ''Authentics''-style packaging like big head helicopters, Dancing Transformers and a giant RC Bumblebee. –[[User:BluJayWarrior|BluJayWarrior]] ([[User talk:BluJayWarrior|talk]]) 18:57, 13 January 2026 (EST)

== Size of the page again ==

This page is getting pretty long again, so could someone archive the last year? [[User:Hilfam|Hilfam]] ([[User talk:Hilfam|talk]]) 12:03, 22 January 2026 (EST)

== Idea for a page? ==

Perhaps a page discussing the various Transformers that have "base modes" as a third form, like Powermaster Prime, Motormaster, etc. It's a major recurring gimmick since G1. [[User:DrakeyC|DrakeyC]] ([[User talk:DrakeyC|talk]]) 09:09, 30 January 2026 (EST)
:I think a general "[[base mode]]" article would make sense, yeah. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 10:19, 30 January 2026 (EST)
::seconded. frankly shocked to learn there isn't one already --[[User:Arren1234 |Arren Meuchel]] [[User_talk:Arren1234 |(talk)]] 11:58, 30 January 2026 (EST)
:::I think base modes lend themselves better to a category page rather than a full-blown article. What would it even say? “Some Transformers have Base Modes. Here’s a list of all the toys, here’s a list of all the episodes/issues where a base mode appeared.” [[User:Cylasbreakdown|Cylasbreakdown]] ([[User talk:Cylasbreakdown|talk]]) 16:51, 4 February 2026 (EST)
::::I don't see why not. We have articles specifically for [[Beast mode]], [[Super Mode]], [[attack mode]], and [[transportation mode]]. For such a prominent feature of Transformers since its early days I'm surprised there doesn't seem to be a specific write-up about city/base modes anywhere, and not even as single mention on the main [[alternate mode]] page. Closest I can find is [[Titan (group)#Alternate modes]]. —[[User:BluJayWarrior|BluJayWarrior]] ([[User talk:BluJayWarrior|talk]]) 18:01, 4 February 2026 (EST)
:::::I attempted a [[User:MahXyme/Sandbox/Base Mode|sandbox for a Base Mode page]] long ago, but I stopped since I realized it would require an extensive amount of work to list all fiction usages & differentiate what counts/what does not count not (something I struggled with the [[Micromaster#The Transformers|Micromasters Transports]] assorments -[[User:MahXyme|MahXyme/MahXymal]] ([[User talk:MahXyme|talk]]) 17:53, 5 February 2026 (EST)
::::::Seems like a good start at least. I'd argue for listing "groups" of base modes (Micromaster Stations, Titans Return Leaders, etc.) rather than individual figures --[[User:Arren1234 |Arren Meuchel]] [[User_talk:Arren1234 |(talk)]] 20:36, 5 February 2026 (EST)

Agreed on the organizational aspects. And, that sandbox is a good start, though yeah, it'd need a lot of work to go through all the toylines and make a comprehensive list. There's also the fact that certain toys with base modes are intended to link to others, some universal and some just one specific bot, so it may be tricky to document when that play feature is prevelant. [[User:DrakeyC|DrakeyC]] ([[User talk:DrakeyC|talk]]) 10:35, 18 February 2026 (EST)

==About character name translations==
Um... I'm new here. I have a question, and I'm not sure if this question falls under [[Help:Official info]]...

That is, I want to add the translated names of some characters. But I want to know what basis this wiki uses to choose foreign translations. Must the foreign translations be ones used by Hasbro and/or TakaraTomy and their licensees in order to remain on this wiki? Can some of the names translated by fan Chinese translation groups be considered valid? Especially in cases where they were the first to provide a translation for a work (possibly the only one) and fixed certain character names.

There are also some characters (such as [[Sentinel Maximus]]) whose works may never be introduced by licensors in certain languages, but they do have a commonly used translated name. Should we include this translated name, or just keep it without a translation in that language?

For example, when IDW comic books were introduced in China, the translation team at the time translated [[Tarn (G1)]] as '''璇玑湖'''. So this would count as an authorized translation. However, because this translated name has nothing to do with the original meaning (as well as some other controversies surrounding that Chinese translation group), the more common and widely used Chinese translation for [[Tarn (G1)]] is the direct transliteration '''塔恩'''. '''璇玑湖''' has basically been abandoned. In this case, which translation should we choose?

:I suddenly realized that 塔恩 could be used. The packaging of Blokees does indeed call him 塔恩.

Also, does the foreign name used in the product titles by the Hasbro official flagship store count?

Uh, this question might seem a bit silly, or it might come across as a bit strange because I'm speaking English through a translator. But if the existing Wiki rules already cover this issue, please just tell me, thank you.[[User:Micheva|Micheva]] ([[User talk:Micheva|talk]]) 10:18, 12 February 2026 (EST)
:This is a fantastic question. I have no authority here so don’t take this as word of law, but I believe that Romanizations on this wiki (which I think is somewhat similar) are case-by-case. The first romanization of [[Deathsaurus (G1)|Deathsaurus]] was “Deszarus”, but the page is still titled “Deathsaurus” because that’s what the name actually is supposed to be. (Deathsaurus’ name issues are actually pretty interesting, at least to me, and I’d recommend reading the wiki article’s section on it.) Conversely, [[Jallguar]] IS the first romanization used, and the article title, but in that instance I suppose that there isn’t really any convincing reason to use any of the other romanizations we’ve gotten over the years since none of them actually mean anything (it’s just the Japanese word for Jaguar with an extra syllable inserted). I’m rambling. What I would do for foreign names is, stick with the first official translation used, unless you think there’s a compelling reason to use a different one (like what you said with Tarn), and in that case bring it up on the discussion page for the article in question or in the Discord server. [[User:Cylasbreakdown|Cylasbreakdown]] ([[User talk:Cylasbreakdown|talk]]) 02:43, 15 February 2026 (EST)
::They need to be translations used in official material. That's just the easiest line in the sand we can make. If different translations are used officially, we note them all, barring obvious typos and the such. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 05:22, 15 February 2026 (EST)
:::Does the name used for the flagship store count? Those works that were not introduced have kept them without translations, right?[[User:Micheva|Micheva]] ([[User talk:Micheva|talk]]) 06:52, 15 February 2026 (EST)

Some publications that contain many translations (such as the Chinese version of DW's MTMTE) I actually don't have the resources for, which is a pity.
I have come to realize some issues. For instance, if the translation team used a certain translation term when translating a publication, but later discovered that this term was incorrect, they made the correction in their subsequent fan-based translations. However, since the publication was not re-released after its introduction, the translation term in the authorized merchandise could not be modified. Can we adopt the revised translation term provided by this translation team?

There is another less rigorous question: Does THE translation given by the authorized Chinese translation and introduction team of Chris McFeely's TRANSFORMERS: THE BASICS count?[[User:Micheva|Micheva]] ([[User talk:Micheva|talk]]) 07:07, 15 February 2026 (EST)
:THE BASICS, while incredibly informative, is not official, so no, it would not count. [[User:Cylasbreakdown|Cylasbreakdown]] ([[User talk:Cylasbreakdown|talk]]) 15:52, 16 February 2026 (EST)
::I reiterate, official material only. Mistakes are unfortunate, but that's how it goes and we can't presume unofficial translations will make it into official material. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 17:42, 16 February 2026 (EST)
OK, I will do it this way. Strictly follow the official materials.

And one more question: Can the translation names used by Hasbro's official store be used in this Wiki?[[User:Micheva|Micheva]] ([[User talk:Micheva|talk]]) 23:40, 16 February 2026 (EST)
:Material from Hasbro is fine. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 01:50, 17 February 2026 (EST)

== So when are we splitting the Legends World characters off? ==

It made sense to keep them together when ''Legends'' first started as Jungle Animals in Decidedly Non-Jungle Situations, and this wasn't worth pursuing before now since it'd be just moving the furniture around. But the lore got deeper and now with ''New Legends'' as ongoing fiction I think it's worth looking at again. As much as Legends World is treated as its own dimension, it is fundamentally just a location easily accessible from the JG1 timeline populated with clones* of Transformers from the wider continuity that exists around it. And when we write pages for duplicate characters who co-exist, do we not typically split them off? If that's the yardstick, several Legends Worlders interact with or refer to their JG1 selves, including Rattrap, Rhinox, Waspinator, Arcee, and T-AI. Leo Prime even moves in with Lio Convoy, and keeping those same dudes on the same page is complicating the already complex timeline presented by "[[Age of Primes (End of G1 Universe)|Age of Primes]]". — [[User:TheLastGherkin|TheLastGherkin]] ([[User talk:TheLastGherkin|talk]]) 12:44, 3 March 2026 (EST)
*"clones" is a simpler term for these guys than "magically created lifeforms in a telepathic dream world based on real people from 300 years in the future" but same diff
:It's always been strange to me that they weren't split off already. Having them on the same page is extremely confusing. I'd say go for it. --[[User:Arren1234 |Arren Meuchel]] [[User_talk:Arren1234 |(talk)]] 12:57, 3 March 2026 (EST)
:Personally I think this might be overthinking things. I'd agree that it's not quite 1 to 1 with other cross dimension stuff, but functionally Legends Rattrap is a version of the Beast Wars character even if he is in this weird pocket dimension type thing, and ever single "native" to the dimension we see is basically just a comedic version of a pre-existing character. And we've always kept cross dimensional stories with versions of the same character on the same page (Universe, TransTech, et cetera). It makes things complicated, sure, but JG1 stuff has been like that for nearly two decades now. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 13:00, 3 March 2026 (EST)
::For my money, there's just ''so much'' with the Legends idiots now, and there's going to keep being more of it, so we'd be best off siloing them into their own pages <s>and not having to think about them any more</s>. Universe and TransTech stories that had the characters interacting were generally one-offs or short runs. This is a Cloud or Galvatron II situation, to me. --[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]]) 13:45, 3 March 2026 (EST)
:I am on the record as considering reader experience our prime directive and this would be such a drastic improvement to the readability of our coverage of the Legends rat's nest that I've been meaning to suggest it for years. Consider me emphatically in favor. --[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 20:12, 3 March 2026 (EST)
:I think I'm also generally leaning towards "this is already complicated and it's just going to get more complicated so let's detangle this shit sooner rather than later." -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 20:19, 3 March 2026 (EST)
::Fine with this idea. Are we using Japanese names since those characters have never shown up in material with Hasbro names? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 20:31, 3 March 2026 (EST)
:::That feels unnecessarily pedantic. --[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]]) 22:16, 3 March 2026 (EST)
::::One could make the argument that it's too steeped in Japanese fan culture/terminology to use the Hasbro names, but I really only care about the human characters having Japanese names (because they're normal people living in Tokyo and wouldn't be named things like "T-AI"). [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 22:25, 3 March 2026 (EST)
:::::Also, I think Roadbuster, Whirl, and Windblade can stay as they are, since all three are meant to be the main JG1 versions of those characters anyway. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 22:37, 3 March 2026 (EST)
:::I'm theoretically in favour of Japanese names, since it would improve legibility of say, the time Rattle and Rattrap teamed up – and we're absolutely keeping Lio Convoy, since Leo Prime has gone through a textual name change – BUT: characters with toys, at least, had both the Japanese and Hasbro names on their packaging. It would be inconsistent to have Rattrap and Waspinator and Optimus Primal alongside Cheetus and — I can't think of another example, but I'm interrupting this train of thought because I CAN think of Optimus Minor being made Primal's son on the basis of Beast Convoy's western name. And how many minor guys like, I dunno, Build Boy, are named in dialogue? We could always title the article Wedge and slap a Noname-uncomfirmed on that bad boy like how we did with ''Shattered Glass'' in the distant past.
:::Also, what are we feeling is best for a disambig? (Legends)? (LG)? (LW)? — [[User:TheLastGherkin|TheLastGherkin]] ([[User talk:TheLastGherkin|talk]]) 04:43, 4 March 2026 (EST)
::::Or we could go with the Kre-O approach of "major characters get their own pages, cameos don't" I GUESS — [[User:TheLastGherkin|TheLastGherkin]] ([[User talk:TheLastGherkin|talk]]) 04:53, 4 March 2026 (EST)
::::Minor is only called "Minor" in Legends, so he wouldn't get the full name. I vote (Legends). [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 05:01, 4 March 2026 (EST)
:::::I second the "(Legends)" motion. It's the name of the franchise these character debuted in, in the name of the world they live in, and it's one word. We don't put Masterforce characters at "MF", for instance, and "Legends" isn't even a compound word that ''could'' be abbreviated. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 16:32, 4 March 2026 (EST)
::::::Doing a cursory sweep we appear to have already used "(Legends)" for a [[:Category:Transformers Legends episodes|bazillion mobile game events]] such that it might be prudent to avoid that one. My two cents would be to either use the "(LG)" abbreviation from the packaging/story titles/etc or straight up spell out "(Legends World)" for absolute maximum clarity. --[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 17:50, 4 March 2026 (EST)
::::::I'm leaning towards LG: it's on every toy box and in the title of the vast majority of chapters. Plus, Deadlock uses it in-universe. And it's shorter! — [[User:TheLastGherkin|TheLastGherkin]] ([[User talk:TheLastGherkin|talk]]) 18:02, 4 March 2026 (EST)
:::::::"Legends" is also spoken in-universe countless times all throughout the Legends manga series, even in the most recent End of G1 Universe comic starring the green Lio Convoy. The reason "LG" is on every toy box is because it's part of each toy's ID number, which we have never let dictate any of our disambiguation tags. Otherwise, we'd be using "(BT)" instead of "(Binaltech)", "(MP)" instead of "(Masterpiece)", "(UN)" instead of "(United)", "(TG)" instead of "(Generations)", "(TAV)" instead of "(Adventure)", "(PP)" for Power of the Primes instead of "(POTP)", "(SG)" instead of "(Siege)", "(TCV)" instead of "(Cyberverse)", "(ER)" instead of "(Earthrise)", "(KD)" instead of "(Kingdom)", "(TL)" instead of "(Legacy)", etc. That [[Transformers Legends (mobile game)|Transformers Legends mobile game]] (which has been dead for over a decade, even) that "(Legends)" is currently being used for is a nonissue when "(Legends)" is ''also'' currently being used for things from the [[Transformers Legends (book)|Transformers Legends anthology book]], particularly [[Susan (Legends)]]. And "(Legends)" has already been in use for things from the Legends manga, too, like [[Groundshaker (Legends)]], [[Synapse (Legends)]], [[Duncan (Legends)]], and [[Plasma Energy Chamber (Legends)]]. It's no different from how we use "(RID)" for things from both the 2001 and 2025 franchises, "(Universe)" for things from both the 2003 and 2008 franchises, and "(Generations)" for things from both the pre-Combiner Wars toyline and from the series of Japanese guidebooks. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 00:37, 5 March 2026 (EST)
::::::::Yes, the principle was always "least disambiguation necessary for titles". A particular disambiguation is fine to be used by different things. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 02:13, 5 March 2026 (EST)
:::::::::Speaking personally I cannot say I am terribly invested in any specific disambig so if y'all feel that strongly about "(Legends)," so be it. --[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 15:00, 5 March 2026 (EST)
:Historically I've leaned more in the direction of "this feels like putting these dumb animals on too much of a pedestal", given the meta-importance that page splits tend to imply to the wiki's audience, ''but'' I find the "these are functionally clones who exist within JG1 continuity specifically, not just 'normal' alternate versions of the characters" framing pretty compelling, so I'm surprising myself by saying I wouldn't be opposed to a split at this point. Making stuff like multiple Lios Convoy interacting less insane to write about is definitely a bonus too. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 04:34, 4 March 2026 (EST)
::Oh, also, and I hope it would go without saying, but obviously the toys that technically represent Transformerised Legends World guys would need to go on both pages (which I think we're already doing anyway for cases like the Targetmasters that are actually technically Kiss Players and Beastformers and stuff). [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 04:41, 4 March 2026 (EST)

Thinking about it more, the Galvatron II example is more presuasive to me; a suite style situation would be fine. As for names, I don't really care about T-AI but for any of the Transformers I think that's a bit much. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 08:08, 4 March 2026 (EST)

Having gone through [[:Category:Legends World natives]] and [[:Category:Legends World humans]], if we apply the Kre-O Rule of Notability, that gives us the following:
*'''Split:''' Airazor, Arcee, Big Convoy, Bighorn, Blackarachnia, Cheetor, Dinobot, Lio Convoy, Lio Junior, Megatron, Nightscream, Optimus Minor, Optimus Primal, Rattrap, Rhinox, Scorponok, Scuba, Scylla, Silverbolt, Stampy, Starscream, Tarantulas, Terrorsaur, Tigatron, Waspinator, Nightbeat, T-AI
*'''Lump:''' Roadbuster, Whirl, basically every real person making a cameo
*'''Small roles:''' Archadis, Armordillo, BB, Break, Bump, Colada, Diver, Drill Nuts, Gas Skunk, Guiledart, Heinrad, Ikard, Inferno, Longrack, Magmatron, Megastorm, Kobanzametarō, Prowl, Quickstrike, Rampage, Randy, Ravage, Saberback, Sling, Star Upper, Tasmania Kid, Transmutate, Venom, Wedge, Wolfang, Kelly, Kenneth Onishi, Koji Onishi
*'''TBD:''' Botanica (doesn't have a write-up yet), Buzz Saw (does not appear in JG1 elsewhere), Savage and Noble, Tank Drones (do we split subgroups?)
— [[User:TheLastGherkin|TheLastGherkin]] ([[User talk:TheLastGherkin|talk]]) 09:02, 4 March 2026 (EST)
:The Kre-O thing is because some characters (in fiction or toys) can't be exclusively slotted into G1 or movie buckets since they shift design cues between them. I think it's easier to just be consistent with the Legends gremlin people (other than real people cameos). Sensible to keep the sentient toys (Mini-Cons, Encore Big Convoy) and the three JG1 inductees (Roadbuster, Whirl, Windblade) on their respective character pages, I think. Like Wolfang/Howlinger, Buzz Saw exists in JG1 somewhere off-camera, since they got his toy. I don't think Tank Drone needs another page; it's a mass-produced bodytype that can cover instances across universes, not a specific person. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 09:19, 4 March 2026 (EST)
::I'm somewhere in the middle between "splitting them off the main article would help improve readability, yes," and "splitting them off entirely feels a bit too far since all of them are essentially just different versions of the main Beast Wars et al characters", so I think going the aforementioned route of suiting them would be the cleanest solution. Keeps them joined at the hip with the main versions that they're basically new versions of, while also giving them their own webpages to tidy up readability on the main pages. The Galvatron II analogy is very apropos in this case. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 10:01, 4 March 2026 (EST)
::Coming back to this with refreshed knowledge, Botanica is split, Buzz Saw is small roles (which is now also split), Savage and Noble are split both from Noble (BM) and from each other, and Rhinox/Tankor can go on the same page. — [[User:TheLastGherkin|TheLastGherkin]] ([[User talk:TheLastGherkin|talk]]) 18:02, 4 March 2026 (EST)

So uh. I've come around on the split pages. However...I don't think completely removing any reference to them on the Beast Wars pages themselves is particularly helpful? Whether it be a suite or a "see this article for more information" I don't mind, but there should be some reference since like Sabrblade says, they are just comedic versions of the Beast Wars guys. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 07:37, 6 March 2026 (EST)
:Maybe do the disambiguation like this? [[User:Cylasbreakdown|Cylasbreakdown]] ([[User talk:Cylasbreakdown|talk]]) 14:09, 6 March 2026 (EST) {{disambig3.5|the Beast Wars Maximal|his Legends World counterpart|Rattrap (Legends)|Rattrap}}

Alright, I've decided that for now I'm just going to add a note and a link mostly because I have little patience when it comes to formatting suite links. It's going to be along these lines:

{{note|Due to the unique nature of ''Legends'' place within JG1 continuity, we've opted to separate out this version of the character into its own micro-page. See [article link] for more details.}}

If anyone has any objections or comments, leave them below. Otherwise I'll just implement it tomorrow. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 19:28, 6 March 2026 (EST)
:I don't think this is necessary, but this can be phrased in-universe if we really need it. (<nowiki>"In the [[Zamojin (species)|Zamojin]]-created [[Legends World]], its [[Character (Legends)|Character]]'s existence formed based on Character."</nowiki> or something around that.) [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 19:55, 6 March 2026 (EST)
::Yeah, I like that much better. If nothing else it draws way less attention to itself. --[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]]) 21:55, 6 March 2026 (EST)
:::Seconding Saix that this feels unnecessary, seconding Broadside that Saix's version is more straightforward if we must. --[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 22:12, 6 March 2026 (EST)
::::My thinking is that treating them as completely separate from the regular versions is not really accurate/a bit "inside baseball. Like I said at the start, they aren't quite the same as different counterparts from another universe, sure, but they are still very specifically comedic versions of the Beast Wars characters, down to the fact that they briefly turn into them late in the series. It's why I find the Galvatron II comparison more compelling for accessibility reasons (frankly, the main Galvatron article could also use a note explaining why he's separate too). As for the wording, again I think the in-universe thing is a bit inside baseball, and not clear immediately to users who have no idea what Legends is. If people have suggestions for a better way of wording a precise explanation, I'm all for it, but I still think the intent of my suggestion is more accessible to readers. I'm also still very open to suiting the articles, but I've always struggled with the way templates work, so if anyone else is up for the task, I'm all for it. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 22:27, 6 March 2026 (EST)
:::::If I'm being honest, I would prefer suites too, for all the reasons that have been given, and because the Legends World natives are stated by Leo Prime to be the "bunshin" (分身) of the normal BW characters, denoting an inherent connection between them: 君達レジェンズ世界のビースト市民は我らG1世界のビースト戦士の分身だ. 今こそ! その内なる野獣を全て呼び覚ますんだ. But if others feel that strongly enough against suites to overrule that preference, I can accept the little note proposal instead. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 00:01, 7 March 2026 (EST)
:For what it's worth, I'd planned to give Legends World headings to characters who exist fictionally in that world, [https://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Rattrap_%28BW%29&diff=1899083&oldid=1898497 like so,] to cover their "fictional" appearances. — [[User:TheLastGherkin|TheLastGherkin]] ([[User talk:TheLastGherkin|talk]]) 05:58, 7 March 2026 (EST)
::That was what I figured we would have as well in those cases; I know there's plenty of them who do show up fictionally or as toys just based on my memories. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 08:11, 7 March 2026 (EST)
:While attempting to get into the endgame metaphysical hooey connecting the Legends World natives to the Transformers of JG1 on every individual character article still feels like it would do more harm than good intelligibility-wise to me, I will say that after sitting with it a while I would not be opposed to making some kind of centralized "Legends World native" article laying it all out in detail and then linking out to it everywhere. --[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 16:13, 7 March 2026 (EST)
::I should clarify, my thinking is that there are bound to be users who will see images from the comics, recognize instinctively that they are comedy versions of the Beast Wars characters, and go to those pages and be confused why they aren't there. Yes, they could go to the disambiguation page, but I've always felt that we should optimize things for the least amount of clicking. What separates this from a Cloud type situation to me is that there are enough vagaries there that I understand the argument to split them out (the lore of that depiction of Cybertron, things like Grimlock's backstory); the Legends characters and a lot of the jokes around them exist solely in the context of either the JP Beast Wars and Beast Machines dubs (Silverbolt's depiction, Airazor and Nightscream's whole...thing, Depth Charge's fish gun thing being a character that can talk), or the BWII cartoon characters (Bighorn's infatuation with Scylla, Big Convoy being a teacher at a school as a comedic version of him as a military instructor). In-fiction, sure, they are kind of clones, but it's not the same thing as say, the Optimus Prime clone from the cartoon, because of the metaphysical stuff involved. I think that potentially presenting them as having no connection would not be fully honest. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 16:28, 7 March 2026 (EST)
:::I don’t think we need a dedicated “Legends World native” page, the existing [[Legends World]] article already sums it up pretty nicely. We could direct people there. [[User:Cylasbreakdown|Cylasbreakdown]] ([[User talk:Cylasbreakdown|talk]]) 18:02, 7 March 2026 (EST)
::::Although, if such a page for the Legends World inhabitants were to be made, the in-story name used for those people is "Legends World citizen" (レジェンズ世界の市民 ''Rejenzu sekai no shimin'') with those based on beast-moded characters (as in, those who possess [[Beast Power]]) referred to as either "Animal-type citizens" (動物型の市民 ''Dōbutsu-gata no shimin'') or "Beast citizens" (ビースト市民 ''Bīsuto shimin''). --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 14:47, 8 March 2026 (EDT)

== Out of date MediaWiki ==

So, uh, [[Special:Version|this place is on MediaWiki 1.19.20]]. The 1.19.* branch went EOL back in '''''2015''''', and isn't even the last 1.19.* (which was 1.19.24). That dpesn't seem safe for y'all.

(For context, the current LTS is 1.39.17, which is the oldest supported branch. The most current version is 1.45.1.)

Transformers (2023) issue 30

2026-03-14T15:22:24Z

Hello Goodbye: "diminitive" would be cassette-bot or smaller. He's more like average-Autobot now.

{{Comicstory
|seriesissue=''[[Transformers (2023 comic)|Transformers]]'' #30
|prev=Transformers (2023) issue 29
|next=Transformers (2023) issue 31
|image=Transformers 2023 30 Cover B.jpg
|caption=Nice argument, Elita, but unfortunately for you I've already depicted myself as the unflappable Autobot commander and you as the seething usurper.
|title=
|publisher=[[Image Comics]] [[Skybound Entertainment]]
|date=[[March 11]], [[2026]]
|coverdate= March 2026
|written by=[[Robert Kirkman]]
|art by=[[Dan Mora]]
|colors by=[[Mike Spicer]]
|letters by=[[Rus Wooton]]
|editor=[[Ben Abernathy]]
|publication design=[[Andres Juarez]]
|production=[[Ashby Florence]]
|continuity=[[Energon Universe]]
|chronology=
}}

'''Optimus and Elita clash, and the fate of all Autobotkind will be decided!'''

==Synopsis==
[[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] warns [[Elita One (G1)|Elita One]] that they do not have time to rehash their debate as the [[Decepticon]]s are getting away. However, he is interrupted by [[Cliffjumper (G1)|Cliffjumper]]'s horrified reaction to seeing [[Trailbreaker (G1)|Trailbreaker]]'s corpse. Elita still can't understand why Optimus continues to put the [[Earth]] before [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]], even as it continues to take the lives of their fellow [[Autobot]]s. She believes he's abandoned their war, while Optimus views [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]]'s presence on Earth to be the fault of the Autobots and their responsibility to protect the world from the devastation he will wreak. Elita coldly tells him that he is no longer fit to lead them and punches Prime. Prime refuses to fight her and orders the rest of the Autobots to not interfere. However, Cliffjumper jumps in anyway, forcing Optimus to retaliate in his defense. Elita then proceeds to pound on Optimus' chest, demanding he "give it to her". At that moment, [[Carly (G1)|Carly]] and [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Spike]] appear, only able to look on in horror as Elita attempts to rip Prime's chest open.

Optimus grabs Elita's hand and stops her. He tells her he understands: their people are dying and she believes him distracted, and he admits she might be right. She might be the better leader for the Autobots at this time. But such a role cannot be taken. One must be chosen. He then opens his chest, revealing the [[Matrix of Leadership]], and allowing the artifact to choose who will lead the Autobots...

And the Matrix chooses Elita, bestowing upon her a new [[Prime (rank)|Prime form]], as Optimus reverts to a smaller state.
[[File:Elita-Prime.jpeg|thumb|left|Funnily enough, this is [[Transformers One (film)|not the first time]] [[Elita-1 (One)|an Elita]] has named [[Optimus Prime (One)|a Prime]]]]

Optimus acquiesces to the choice, and defers leadership to Elita Prime. Elita orders all Autobots to return to Cybertron so that they might continue their efforts to defeat the Decepticons and save their world; anyone who decides to stay behind with Optimus will no longer be Autobots. She also warns that they do not know if they will be able to activate the [[space bridge]] on Cybertron again.

As the sun begins to set, Elita's Autobots depart, taking with them the wounded and inoperable Autobots left on the ''[[Ark (G1)|Ark]]'', hoping to restore them on their home planet. Those remaining behind now have their [[Insignia|Autobrand]]s crossed out. Optimus and Elita bid each other farewell, as those who remain behind — [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]], [[Arcee (G1)|Arcee Magnus]], [[Cliffjumper (G1)|Cliffjumper]], [[Shredhead]], [[Beachcomber (G1)|Beachcomber]], [[Thundercracker (G1)|Thundercracker]], and the [[Aerialbot (G1)|Aerialbots]] — ask what they do now. Optimus simply says that they complete their mission. Somehow...

==Featured characters==
Characters in ''italic text'' appear only in flashbacks. 
{{Featuredcharacters
|c1=
* [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime/Optimus]] (1)
* [[Trailbreaker (G1)|Trailbreaker]] (2)
* [[Cliffjumper (G1)|Cliffjumper]] (3)
* [[Elita One (G1)|Elita One/Elita Prime]] (4)
* [[Bulkhead (G1)|Bulkhead]] (5)
* [[Mirage (G1)|Mirage]] (6)
* [[Brawn (G1)|Brawn]] (7)
* [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] (8)
* [[Shredhead]] (9)
* [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] (10)
* [[Arcee (G1)|Arcee Magnus]] (11)
* [[Jetfire (G1)|Jetfire]] (12)
* [[Jazz (G1)|Jazz]] (13)
* [[Thundercracker (G1)|Thundercracker]] (14)
* [[Skydive (G1 Aerialbot)|Skydive]] (17)
* [[Silverbolt (G1)|Silverbolt]] (18)
* [[Fireflight (G1)|Fireflight]] (19)
* [[Air Raid (G1)|Air Raid]] (20)
* [[Beachcomber (G1)|Beachcomber]] (21)
* [[Sideswipe (G1)|Sideswipe]] (22)
* [[Blaster (G1)|Blaster]] (23)
* [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]] (24)
* [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]] (25)

|c3=
* [[Carly (G1)|Carly]] (15)
* [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Spike Witwicky]] (16)
}}

==Quotes==
"For '''millennia''' we fought together against the Decepticons. I am strongest... '''with you by my side.'''" 
"Elita, '''please.''' I fear that is but a distant memory. No matter how much I desire it, as well..."
:— '''Elita One''' and '''Optimus Prime'''

"Prime? Are you--" 
"No, Brawn... Not Prime. Only '''Optimus,''' now."
:— '''Brawn''' and '''Optimus'''

'''Ultra Magnus:''' "I'm sorry, Optimus. I just feel I'm needed--" 
'''Optimus:''' "Don't. I understand. I hope to join you soon, my friend." 
'''Elita Prime:''' "By [[Primus]], let that be true. [['Til all are one]]." 
'''Optimus:''' "'Til all are one."

==Notes==
===Continuity notes===
* This issue finally brings the conflict that has been brewing between Optimus and Elita since [[Transformers (2023) issue 12|issue #12]] to its boiling point.
* Optimus tells Elita that challenging for leadership is not the Autobot way, in stark contrast to the Decepticon way seen back in [[Transformers (2023) issue 13|issue #13]] when [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]] challenged [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]].
* Upon losing the Matrix, Optimus reverts to a smaller form, though he still calls himself “Optimus”. Notably, he does not revert to the Orion Pax that we saw in a flashback in ''[[Void Rivals]]'' [[Void Rivals issue 17|#17]].

===''Transformers'' references===
* When Optimus opens his chest to reveal the Matrix, the design of the "cover" to the Matrix is taken from its appearance in ''[[The Transformers: The Movie]]''.
* Elita's Prime form appears to have a jet [[alternate mode]] akin to her [[Elita One (G1)#Power of the Primes|Power of the Primes toy]].
* Optimus' post-Prime form has the chest of his [[Optimus Prime (Cyberworld)|Cyberworld counterpart]]

===Other notes===
* Due to an error with Google Books, this issue accidentally leaked almost a month in advance, leading to many of its shocking plot points being posted on social media, usually without context.
* Kirkman name-drops [[Delta Magnus]] in the letters pages as an example of "[[Magnus (rank)|Magnus]]" being a rank that can be passed on to [[Arcee (G1)#Energon Universe|different bots]].
* Energon Experience: Presented by Skybound Executive Editor Ben Abernathy.
** '''Character Spotlight:''' Optimus (not Prime)
** ''''Til All Are None!!:''' Reflects on Optimus and his outcast Autobots.
** '''Creator Spotlight:''' Ben asks Dan Mora who his favorite Transformer was to draw. Mora enjoyed drawing Wheeljack most, though he also highlights [[Rumble (G1)|Rumble]] and Elita One.

===Covers===
* '''Cover A:''' Elita One, by [[David Nakayama]]
* '''Cover B:''' Optimus vs Elita, by [[Daniel Warren Johnson]] and Mike Spicer.
* '''Cover C:''' Connecting cover, by [[Jorge Corona]] and Mike Spicer.
* '''Cover D:''' The Decepticons, by [[Taurin Clarke]].
* '''Cover E:''' Design for Megatron, by Dan Mora and [[Andres Juarez]].
* '''Cover F:''' Invincible crossover cover featuring Invincible and Robot fighting [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]] and Rumble, by [[Joshua Cassara]] and [[Romulo Fajardo Jr.]].

<gallery>
File:Transformers 2023 30 Cover A.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 30 Cover B.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 30 Cover C.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 30 Cover D.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 30 Cover E.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 30 Cover F.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 30 Redcode Cover.jpg|
File:Transformers 2023 30 Serg Acuña Cover.jpg|
</gallery>

===Advertisement===
* Explore the Energon Universe in ''[[G.I. Joe (2024 comic)|G.I. Joe]]'' [[G.I. Joe (2024) issue 20|#20]], ''[[Void Rivals]]'' [[Void Rivals issue 28|#28]], and Transformers #31.
* Invincible Universe: Battle Beast #7
* ''[[G.I. Joe (comic)|G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero]]'' Kickstarter Exclusive Hardcover Compendiums
* ''G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero: Silent Missions'' returns!

===Reprints===
* '''''Transformers Volume 5: Generation One''''' ([[June 2]], [[2026]]) ISBN 153433355X / ISBN 978-1534333550
** Collects ''Transformers'' issues #25–30
** Trade paperback format.

<gallery>
File:Transformers 2023 V5.jpg|'''''Volume 5: Generation One''''' – cover art by [[David Nakayama]]
</gallery>

==External links==

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Transformers (2023) issues]]