MediaWiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Prima

2013-12-07T13:55:48Z

IGFlanders: /* Ed Flanders */

Is Prima pronounced 'Prime-uh' or 'Preem-ah'? -[[User:69.88.91.218|69.88.91.218]] 20:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
:I doubt there any official sources on pronunciation for this, but I'd go with "Prime-uh" given the general "Primus" connection from which this name is obviously derived.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 20:25, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:Uh, I think Prima was the FIRST Matrix-bearer, according to the Creation Matrix. I don't think Primus counts as one. He's listed first because he IS the Matrix. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:30, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

So it is! I was thinking Primon came first.
:Primon is only ever mentioned in the Omega Point BotCon fiction. We're not really sure what his deal is, compared to Prima. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:41, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm feeling entirely too lazy to think up how to integrate it into the existing text, but it'd be important to mention that DK's "Ultimate Guide" book specifically states that Prima was the first Transformer of 'em all, accompanied by the panel from the G2 comic that showed the first TF emerging. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 21:49, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
:Aaaand, I see Derik's made that point already elsewhere. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 21:50, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Cartoon ==

I don't see how the bot previously known as "Powerful Robot" can be the first Transformer. He was a pre-Transformer for one thing, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt that "the first Transformer" doesn't literally mean he could transform. But, as the article says, he "was created from the corpse of another robot" so he was created late in the game. By Quintessons. Unless it was actually the guy who was recycled into "Powerful Robot" who was Prima. In which case, his entry has to be changed to make that clear. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 02:26, 2 July 2010 (EDT)
:Powerful Robot being Prima makes no damn sense at all. We see his creation, on screen, and it sure as hell wasn't as one of the original 13 Primus made way back before any Quintessons were around. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 16:29, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
::[[Unicron|The G1 cartoon not aligning with later retcons is not a new thing.]] [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 16:32, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
:::I also really hate after-the-fact presumptions and limitations on what prehistoric TFs actually could do / were doing, and like to minimize them as much as possible. Prima was there now? Well, if you say so. Since he was all godly and shit, let's say he was on the astral plane guiding the construction of what would turn out to be his body--so it SEEMED like he was being built, but he really wasn't. This can explain the sequencing too. I don't enjoy bullshit-fu, but it is a defensive martial art. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 16:46, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
::::That is some interesting fanon there, but FFoD tells us/shows us that "Powerful Robot" was recycled from "generic assembly line guy". That isn't an after the fact presumption, it is what happened. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:59, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::There's nothing stopping them from coming up with an explanation along the lines of "this dude was imbued with Prima's essence after being recycled". But we're getting off on a tangent. Regardless of how little sense it may make, canon says it's Prima, so here we go. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 17:11, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
:::This is a very specific G1 cartoon retcon. I thought maybe there was some logic to it I wasn't seeing. Like maybe Prima was the guy pulled off the assembly line and his essence somehow survived being recycled or something. I guess not. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:59, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
::::''The point is'', when you involve divinities, you can handwave away any contradiction as divine intervention and they just have to lie there and take it. His essence was involved SOMEWHERE to keep the sequencing intact. It's "fanon," but since all of the story material depicting Prima as the 1st TF can't go around contradicting itself with him being the 2nd, there is going to have to be SOME response to it on the part of the reader, be it in terms of ignoring it utterly or some form of bullshit-fu. You know where I stand. And no, of course none of that goes in the articles. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 17:14, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::I did not know Prima was a "divinity". For a guy created by the Quintessons from a different dead guy then soon after effortlessly shot dead by Quintessons, I think "divinity" might be stretching it. Where exactly was he depicted as godly anyway? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:11, 11 July 2010 (EDT)
::::::Have you read Forest Lee's multiversal explanation thing about The Fallen? The Thirteen are pretty much demigods. {{unsigned|173.71.105.23|15:35, July 11, 2010 (EDT)}}
:::::::Yes, I read that. I don't really know what to make of it. It is canon, I guess, but it hasn't actually happened (in fiction), as far as I know. People seem fond of saying that it is "bullshit-fu". Maybe it is just straight up bullshit. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:55, 11 July 2010 (EDT)
::::::::The eventual story of Prima, as sketched out at BC10, will reveal him to have been an "epic warrior of light" "like a Greek god", whose sword hilt has a little gem on it that gets used as the Matrix of Leadership--and based on how big Optimus Prime's chest is compared to the sword, Prima would be ~500 feet tall. If something that cosmic is supposed to be reconciled with "little dinky nobody who rolled off an assembly line in a completely different time period," then sure, he did some magic ghost woowoo. Again, it wouldn't go into the article, especially if, y'know, it's never actually published or said. But, again, people have to intellectually reconcile the notions ''somehow''. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 22:20, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

== Optimus Prime's ancestor ==

I only know it has been confirmed that Optimus Prime's ancestor has bee assigned to Prima. But I think we need to write down a source in Note section just like how we mention AllSpark Almanac II declared "Powerful Robot" is Prima via an Ask Vector Prime entry. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 03:44, 2 July 2010 (EDT)

==Recordicons nullification==
Apparently a Recordicons strip featured a Cybertronix declaration that Vector Prime was lying about FFOD. Stamped and licensed and published. Since the G1 retcons of the 13 were just a bad in-joke from the onset, I'm fine with seeing another in-joke obliterate it. Seriously. Does anyone else want to see the character concepts separated again? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 10:03, 3 March 2012 (EST)
:<s>The strip only said that Vector Prime "lies". Nothing specific.</s> Why are we taking the news ticker as more truthful than Vector Prime? And only one of them was one of the Thirteen. All of the others were just aligned with preexisting Prime names, which are always going to be better than "Brooding Robot" or "New Narrator". [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 10:13, 3 March 2012 (EST)

==Nitpicking==
Since the comic design is no longer Prima's official design shouldn't the Aligned one be up there instead? - Kohu

:I don't see why. Just because it's more recent doesn't mean it's more valid, I don't see G1 Optimus Prime's mainpic being in his new IDW Cybertronic form. The current pic shows him being, quite literally, the first Autobot. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 16:57, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

::With the Thirteen, there isn't really a "No longer their official design" factor. They look different in various universes.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 17:23, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

:::I vote not to change with the reason mentioned by above. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 20:23, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

::::Despite past canon I believe Hasbro's official stance is that Aligned is not part of the Multiverse which technically means Aligned Primus is not this guy and should have his own page anyway.--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 17:38, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::I think they overstated it or people have over interpreted it. Hasbro still considers the Prime characters as being the same (in some way) as the previous multiverse characters, as demonstrated by the Hall of Fame bios including data from Prime alongside data from other continuities. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 10:44, 21 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::: What they said was that anything established about previous versions of the characters will not be held as binding or true in the Aligned universe, including established "singularities" in that. Since the whole point of singularities is that their being is the same individual everywhere in the multiverse, saying that they are not so in Aligned kinda breaks connection to the multiverse. Now we could easily timely-wimpy up some be pseudo physics that patches that up, but until someone does it in canon I think their fairly officially seperate.--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 13:20, 21 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::::This has been discussed before, mostly re: Alpha Trion. What it comes down to is "nobody has gotten around to separating the Aligned versions of the Thirteen out, either because it's too much work or because they don't want to get yelled at the whole time they're doing it". -LV, not logged in
::::::::Wasn't there something about it qualifying as authorial intent and we wouldn't put that much work into it until something in-fiction would disprove their multiverse singularityness? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 17:56, 21 March 2012 (EDT)

== Ed Flanders ==

Well I'm just going to have to say I find that highly circumspect. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CMcZurH2vY Listen] (skip to 15:22). You will have to provide some kind of proof to me that that is NOT Neil Ross. Because... that's Neil Ross's voice. The non-Optimus Matrix spirit guides are only voiced by actors who are already in the episode performing a regular role (Bell as Scrapper, Ross as Springer, Jamin as Blast Off, Adler as Silverbolt, Clarke as Dead End, Angel as Magnus) and could freely double up for these no-name bit-roles. We know that FFoD had at least one major piece of cast re-recording (Gautier replacing Schwartz) so I guess Flanders could have done it and then Ross might've re-recorded it, but... [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 07:42, 7 December 2013 (EST)

:Actually it was more difficult than that. I recall that my father told me that he went to a non-ensemble recording for this episode (He didn't knew why, but he told me that Wally Burr seemed somewhat pressured that day). He later found out that it was because the two actors he had chosen for the role (Regis Cordic and Neil Ross), didn't seem to fit the role. He used Cordic in the ensemble session, then he went for Ross to replace Cordic's lines, and after watching the narration my father did for the beginning of The Ninth Configuration (in which he played Col. Fell), he decided to use him (because my father had already played some Sweeps for the five-parter anyway). My father did two takes, Wally liked the first but he asked my father if he could do it again, this time with an English accent, and at a slower pace, and that's the recording you hear in the final cut of the episode.

:Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2aND3Y9bc8

:My father's narration starts at 5:47.

:--[[User:IGFlanders|IGFlanders]] ([[User talk:IGFlanders|talk]]) 08:10, 7 December 2013 (EST)
::I'm trying not to be standoffish or insensitive here, but are you honestly asking us all to take at face value your ability to recall stories that your father told you over twenty years ago in in this ''insane'' level of minimal detail about a five-second unnamed bit-part fill-in role in a thirty-year-old cartoon? I'm sorry, but I'm finding this entire thing dubious. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 08:23, 7 December 2013 (EST)

:::Not at all, I thought you would love to hear an interesting anecdote. And yeah, I recall that I also had the same feeling as you, Mr. McFeely. My father was often insanely detailed when he talked about this show. After he told me this, I said to myself "Why does he talk so much about a bit-part in an animated TV show". I remember that when the show ended, he barely even spoke about what he had been doing lately, even though he had a lot of important roles after Transformers ended. I don't recall everything he told me (aside from the toy characters he played, like Scattershot or Mindwipe, this is the anecdote I will never forget, because of my odd reaction to his detailed description), but I recall his somewhat reaction everytime he talked about the show. It drove me nuts.
:::--[[User:IGFlanders|IGFlanders]] ([[User talk:IGFlanders|talk]]) 08:40, 7 December 2013 (EST)

Talk:Prima

2013-12-07T13:41:24Z

IGFlanders: /* Ed Flanders */

Is Prima pronounced 'Prime-uh' or 'Preem-ah'? -[[User:69.88.91.218|69.88.91.218]] 20:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
:I doubt there any official sources on pronunciation for this, but I'd go with "Prime-uh" given the general "Primus" connection from which this name is obviously derived.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 20:25, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:Uh, I think Prima was the FIRST Matrix-bearer, according to the Creation Matrix. I don't think Primus counts as one. He's listed first because he IS the Matrix. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:30, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

So it is! I was thinking Primon came first.
:Primon is only ever mentioned in the Omega Point BotCon fiction. We're not really sure what his deal is, compared to Prima. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:41, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm feeling entirely too lazy to think up how to integrate it into the existing text, but it'd be important to mention that DK's "Ultimate Guide" book specifically states that Prima was the first Transformer of 'em all, accompanied by the panel from the G2 comic that showed the first TF emerging. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 21:49, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
:Aaaand, I see Derik's made that point already elsewhere. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 21:50, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Cartoon ==

I don't see how the bot previously known as "Powerful Robot" can be the first Transformer. He was a pre-Transformer for one thing, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt that "the first Transformer" doesn't literally mean he could transform. But, as the article says, he "was created from the corpse of another robot" so he was created late in the game. By Quintessons. Unless it was actually the guy who was recycled into "Powerful Robot" who was Prima. In which case, his entry has to be changed to make that clear. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 02:26, 2 July 2010 (EDT)
:Powerful Robot being Prima makes no damn sense at all. We see his creation, on screen, and it sure as hell wasn't as one of the original 13 Primus made way back before any Quintessons were around. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 16:29, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
::[[Unicron|The G1 cartoon not aligning with later retcons is not a new thing.]] [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 16:32, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
:::I also really hate after-the-fact presumptions and limitations on what prehistoric TFs actually could do / were doing, and like to minimize them as much as possible. Prima was there now? Well, if you say so. Since he was all godly and shit, let's say he was on the astral plane guiding the construction of what would turn out to be his body--so it SEEMED like he was being built, but he really wasn't. This can explain the sequencing too. I don't enjoy bullshit-fu, but it is a defensive martial art. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 16:46, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
::::That is some interesting fanon there, but FFoD tells us/shows us that "Powerful Robot" was recycled from "generic assembly line guy". That isn't an after the fact presumption, it is what happened. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:59, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::There's nothing stopping them from coming up with an explanation along the lines of "this dude was imbued with Prima's essence after being recycled". But we're getting off on a tangent. Regardless of how little sense it may make, canon says it's Prima, so here we go. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 17:11, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
:::This is a very specific G1 cartoon retcon. I thought maybe there was some logic to it I wasn't seeing. Like maybe Prima was the guy pulled off the assembly line and his essence somehow survived being recycled or something. I guess not. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:59, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
::::''The point is'', when you involve divinities, you can handwave away any contradiction as divine intervention and they just have to lie there and take it. His essence was involved SOMEWHERE to keep the sequencing intact. It's "fanon," but since all of the story material depicting Prima as the 1st TF can't go around contradicting itself with him being the 2nd, there is going to have to be SOME response to it on the part of the reader, be it in terms of ignoring it utterly or some form of bullshit-fu. You know where I stand. And no, of course none of that goes in the articles. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 17:14, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::I did not know Prima was a "divinity". For a guy created by the Quintessons from a different dead guy then soon after effortlessly shot dead by Quintessons, I think "divinity" might be stretching it. Where exactly was he depicted as godly anyway? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:11, 11 July 2010 (EDT)
::::::Have you read Forest Lee's multiversal explanation thing about The Fallen? The Thirteen are pretty much demigods. {{unsigned|173.71.105.23|15:35, July 11, 2010 (EDT)}}
:::::::Yes, I read that. I don't really know what to make of it. It is canon, I guess, but it hasn't actually happened (in fiction), as far as I know. People seem fond of saying that it is "bullshit-fu". Maybe it is just straight up bullshit. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:55, 11 July 2010 (EDT)
::::::::The eventual story of Prima, as sketched out at BC10, will reveal him to have been an "epic warrior of light" "like a Greek god", whose sword hilt has a little gem on it that gets used as the Matrix of Leadership--and based on how big Optimus Prime's chest is compared to the sword, Prima would be ~500 feet tall. If something that cosmic is supposed to be reconciled with "little dinky nobody who rolled off an assembly line in a completely different time period," then sure, he did some magic ghost woowoo. Again, it wouldn't go into the article, especially if, y'know, it's never actually published or said. But, again, people have to intellectually reconcile the notions ''somehow''. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 22:20, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

== Optimus Prime's ancestor ==

I only know it has been confirmed that Optimus Prime's ancestor has bee assigned to Prima. But I think we need to write down a source in Note section just like how we mention AllSpark Almanac II declared "Powerful Robot" is Prima via an Ask Vector Prime entry. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 03:44, 2 July 2010 (EDT)

==Recordicons nullification==
Apparently a Recordicons strip featured a Cybertronix declaration that Vector Prime was lying about FFOD. Stamped and licensed and published. Since the G1 retcons of the 13 were just a bad in-joke from the onset, I'm fine with seeing another in-joke obliterate it. Seriously. Does anyone else want to see the character concepts separated again? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 10:03, 3 March 2012 (EST)
:<s>The strip only said that Vector Prime "lies". Nothing specific.</s> Why are we taking the news ticker as more truthful than Vector Prime? And only one of them was one of the Thirteen. All of the others were just aligned with preexisting Prime names, which are always going to be better than "Brooding Robot" or "New Narrator". [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 10:13, 3 March 2012 (EST)

==Nitpicking==
Since the comic design is no longer Prima's official design shouldn't the Aligned one be up there instead? - Kohu

:I don't see why. Just because it's more recent doesn't mean it's more valid, I don't see G1 Optimus Prime's mainpic being in his new IDW Cybertronic form. The current pic shows him being, quite literally, the first Autobot. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 16:57, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

::With the Thirteen, there isn't really a "No longer their official design" factor. They look different in various universes.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 17:23, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

:::I vote not to change with the reason mentioned by above. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 20:23, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

::::Despite past canon I believe Hasbro's official stance is that Aligned is not part of the Multiverse which technically means Aligned Primus is not this guy and should have his own page anyway.--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 17:38, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::I think they overstated it or people have over interpreted it. Hasbro still considers the Prime characters as being the same (in some way) as the previous multiverse characters, as demonstrated by the Hall of Fame bios including data from Prime alongside data from other continuities. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 10:44, 21 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::: What they said was that anything established about previous versions of the characters will not be held as binding or true in the Aligned universe, including established "singularities" in that. Since the whole point of singularities is that their being is the same individual everywhere in the multiverse, saying that they are not so in Aligned kinda breaks connection to the multiverse. Now we could easily timely-wimpy up some be pseudo physics that patches that up, but until someone does it in canon I think their fairly officially seperate.--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 13:20, 21 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::::This has been discussed before, mostly re: Alpha Trion. What it comes down to is "nobody has gotten around to separating the Aligned versions of the Thirteen out, either because it's too much work or because they don't want to get yelled at the whole time they're doing it". -LV, not logged in
::::::::Wasn't there something about it qualifying as authorial intent and we wouldn't put that much work into it until something in-fiction would disprove their multiverse singularityness? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 17:56, 21 March 2012 (EDT)

== Ed Flanders ==

Well I'm just going to have to say I find that highly circumspect. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CMcZurH2vY Listen] (skip to 15:22). You will have to provide some kind of proof to me that that is NOT Neil Ross. Because... that's Neil Ross's voice. The non-Optimus Matrix spirit guides are only voiced by actors who are already in the episode performing a regular role (Bell as Scrapper, Ross as Springer, Jamin as Blast Off, Adler as Silverbolt, Clarke as Dead End, Angel as Magnus) and could freely double up for these no-name bit-roles. We know that FFoD had at least one major piece of cast re-recording (Gautier replacing Schwartz) so I guess Flanders could have done it and then Ross might've re-recorded it, but... [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 07:42, 7 December 2013 (EST)

:Actually it was more difficult than that. I recall that my father told me that he went to a non-ensemble recording for this episode (He didn't knew why, but he told me that Wally Burr seemed somewhat pressured that day). He later found out that it was because the two actors he had chosen for the role (Regis Cordic and Neil Ross), didn't seem to fit the role. He used Cordic in the ensemble session, then he went for Ross to replace Cordic's lines, and after watching the narration my father did for the beginning of The Ninth Configuration (in which he played Col. Fell), he decided to use him (because my father had already played some Sweeps for the five-parter anyway). My father did two takes, Wally liked the first but he asked my father if he could do it again, this time with an English accent, and at a slower pace, and that's the recording you hear in the final cut of the episode.

:Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2aND3Y9bc8

:My father's narration starts at 5:47.

:--[[User:IGFlanders|IGFlanders]] ([[User talk:IGFlanders|talk]]) 08:10, 7 December 2013 (EST)
::I'm trying not to be standoffish or insensitive here, but are you honestly asking us all to take at face value your ability to recall stories that your father told you over twenty years ago in in this ''insane'' level of minimal detail about a five-second unnamed bit-part fill-in role in a thirty-year-old cartoon? I'm sorry, but I'm finding this entire thing dubious. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 08:23, 7 December 2013 (EST)

:::Not at all, I thought you would love to hear an interesting anecdote. And yeah, I recall that I also had the same feeling as you, Mr. McFeely. My father was often insanely detailed when he talked about this show. After he told me this, I said to myself "Why does he talk so much about a bit-part in an animated TV show". I remember that when the show ended, he barely even spoke about what he had been doing lately, even though he had a lot of important roles after Transformers ended. I don't recall everything he told me (this is the anecdote I will never forget, because of my odd reaction to his detailed description), but I recall his somewhat reaction everytime he talked about the show. It drove me nuts.
:::--[[User:IGFlanders|IGFlanders]] ([[User talk:IGFlanders|talk]]) 08:40, 7 December 2013 (EST)

Talk:Prima

2013-12-07T13:40:31Z

IGFlanders: /* Ed Flanders */

Is Prima pronounced 'Prime-uh' or 'Preem-ah'? -[[User:69.88.91.218|69.88.91.218]] 20:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
:I doubt there any official sources on pronunciation for this, but I'd go with "Prime-uh" given the general "Primus" connection from which this name is obviously derived.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 20:25, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:Uh, I think Prima was the FIRST Matrix-bearer, according to the Creation Matrix. I don't think Primus counts as one. He's listed first because he IS the Matrix. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:30, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

So it is! I was thinking Primon came first.
:Primon is only ever mentioned in the Omega Point BotCon fiction. We're not really sure what his deal is, compared to Prima. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:41, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm feeling entirely too lazy to think up how to integrate it into the existing text, but it'd be important to mention that DK's "Ultimate Guide" book specifically states that Prima was the first Transformer of 'em all, accompanied by the panel from the G2 comic that showed the first TF emerging. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 21:49, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
:Aaaand, I see Derik's made that point already elsewhere. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 21:50, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Cartoon ==

I don't see how the bot previously known as "Powerful Robot" can be the first Transformer. He was a pre-Transformer for one thing, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt that "the first Transformer" doesn't literally mean he could transform. But, as the article says, he "was created from the corpse of another robot" so he was created late in the game. By Quintessons. Unless it was actually the guy who was recycled into "Powerful Robot" who was Prima. In which case, his entry has to be changed to make that clear. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 02:26, 2 July 2010 (EDT)
:Powerful Robot being Prima makes no damn sense at all. We see his creation, on screen, and it sure as hell wasn't as one of the original 13 Primus made way back before any Quintessons were around. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 16:29, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
::[[Unicron|The G1 cartoon not aligning with later retcons is not a new thing.]] [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 16:32, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
:::I also really hate after-the-fact presumptions and limitations on what prehistoric TFs actually could do / were doing, and like to minimize them as much as possible. Prima was there now? Well, if you say so. Since he was all godly and shit, let's say he was on the astral plane guiding the construction of what would turn out to be his body--so it SEEMED like he was being built, but he really wasn't. This can explain the sequencing too. I don't enjoy bullshit-fu, but it is a defensive martial art. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 16:46, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
::::That is some interesting fanon there, but FFoD tells us/shows us that "Powerful Robot" was recycled from "generic assembly line guy". That isn't an after the fact presumption, it is what happened. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:59, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::There's nothing stopping them from coming up with an explanation along the lines of "this dude was imbued with Prima's essence after being recycled". But we're getting off on a tangent. Regardless of how little sense it may make, canon says it's Prima, so here we go. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 17:11, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
:::This is a very specific G1 cartoon retcon. I thought maybe there was some logic to it I wasn't seeing. Like maybe Prima was the guy pulled off the assembly line and his essence somehow survived being recycled or something. I guess not. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:59, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
::::''The point is'', when you involve divinities, you can handwave away any contradiction as divine intervention and they just have to lie there and take it. His essence was involved SOMEWHERE to keep the sequencing intact. It's "fanon," but since all of the story material depicting Prima as the 1st TF can't go around contradicting itself with him being the 2nd, there is going to have to be SOME response to it on the part of the reader, be it in terms of ignoring it utterly or some form of bullshit-fu. You know where I stand. And no, of course none of that goes in the articles. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 17:14, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::I did not know Prima was a "divinity". For a guy created by the Quintessons from a different dead guy then soon after effortlessly shot dead by Quintessons, I think "divinity" might be stretching it. Where exactly was he depicted as godly anyway? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:11, 11 July 2010 (EDT)
::::::Have you read Forest Lee's multiversal explanation thing about The Fallen? The Thirteen are pretty much demigods. {{unsigned|173.71.105.23|15:35, July 11, 2010 (EDT)}}
:::::::Yes, I read that. I don't really know what to make of it. It is canon, I guess, but it hasn't actually happened (in fiction), as far as I know. People seem fond of saying that it is "bullshit-fu". Maybe it is just straight up bullshit. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:55, 11 July 2010 (EDT)
::::::::The eventual story of Prima, as sketched out at BC10, will reveal him to have been an "epic warrior of light" "like a Greek god", whose sword hilt has a little gem on it that gets used as the Matrix of Leadership--and based on how big Optimus Prime's chest is compared to the sword, Prima would be ~500 feet tall. If something that cosmic is supposed to be reconciled with "little dinky nobody who rolled off an assembly line in a completely different time period," then sure, he did some magic ghost woowoo. Again, it wouldn't go into the article, especially if, y'know, it's never actually published or said. But, again, people have to intellectually reconcile the notions ''somehow''. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 22:20, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

== Optimus Prime's ancestor ==

I only know it has been confirmed that Optimus Prime's ancestor has bee assigned to Prima. But I think we need to write down a source in Note section just like how we mention AllSpark Almanac II declared "Powerful Robot" is Prima via an Ask Vector Prime entry. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 03:44, 2 July 2010 (EDT)

==Recordicons nullification==
Apparently a Recordicons strip featured a Cybertronix declaration that Vector Prime was lying about FFOD. Stamped and licensed and published. Since the G1 retcons of the 13 were just a bad in-joke from the onset, I'm fine with seeing another in-joke obliterate it. Seriously. Does anyone else want to see the character concepts separated again? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 10:03, 3 March 2012 (EST)
:<s>The strip only said that Vector Prime "lies". Nothing specific.</s> Why are we taking the news ticker as more truthful than Vector Prime? And only one of them was one of the Thirteen. All of the others were just aligned with preexisting Prime names, which are always going to be better than "Brooding Robot" or "New Narrator". [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 10:13, 3 March 2012 (EST)

==Nitpicking==
Since the comic design is no longer Prima's official design shouldn't the Aligned one be up there instead? - Kohu

:I don't see why. Just because it's more recent doesn't mean it's more valid, I don't see G1 Optimus Prime's mainpic being in his new IDW Cybertronic form. The current pic shows him being, quite literally, the first Autobot. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 16:57, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

::With the Thirteen, there isn't really a "No longer their official design" factor. They look different in various universes.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 17:23, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

:::I vote not to change with the reason mentioned by above. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 20:23, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

::::Despite past canon I believe Hasbro's official stance is that Aligned is not part of the Multiverse which technically means Aligned Primus is not this guy and should have his own page anyway.--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 17:38, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::I think they overstated it or people have over interpreted it. Hasbro still considers the Prime characters as being the same (in some way) as the previous multiverse characters, as demonstrated by the Hall of Fame bios including data from Prime alongside data from other continuities. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 10:44, 21 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::: What they said was that anything established about previous versions of the characters will not be held as binding or true in the Aligned universe, including established "singularities" in that. Since the whole point of singularities is that their being is the same individual everywhere in the multiverse, saying that they are not so in Aligned kinda breaks connection to the multiverse. Now we could easily timely-wimpy up some be pseudo physics that patches that up, but until someone does it in canon I think their fairly officially seperate.--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 13:20, 21 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::::This has been discussed before, mostly re: Alpha Trion. What it comes down to is "nobody has gotten around to separating the Aligned versions of the Thirteen out, either because it's too much work or because they don't want to get yelled at the whole time they're doing it". -LV, not logged in
::::::::Wasn't there something about it qualifying as authorial intent and we wouldn't put that much work into it until something in-fiction would disprove their multiverse singularityness? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 17:56, 21 March 2012 (EDT)

== Ed Flanders ==

Well I'm just going to have to say I find that highly circumspect. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CMcZurH2vY Listen] (skip to 15:22). You will have to provide some kind of proof to me that that is NOT Neil Ross. Because... that's Neil Ross's voice. The non-Optimus Matrix spirit guides are only voiced by actors who are already in the episode performing a regular role (Bell as Scrapper, Ross as Springer, Jamin as Blast Off, Adler as Silverbolt, Clarke as Dead End, Angel as Magnus) and could freely double up for these no-name bit-roles. We know that FFoD had at least one major piece of cast re-recording (Gautier replacing Schwartz) so I guess Flanders could have done it and then Ross might've re-recorded it, but... [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 07:42, 7 December 2013 (EST)

:Actually it was more difficult than that. I recall that my father told me that he went to a non-ensemble recording for this episode (He didn't knew why, but he told me that Wally Burr seemed somewhat pressured that day). He later found out that it was because the two actors he had chosen for the role (Regis Cordic and Neil Ross), didn't seem to fit the role. He used Cordic in the ensemble session, then he went for Ross to replace Cordic's lines, and after watching the narration my father did for the beginning of The Ninth Configuration (in which he played Col. Fell), he decided to use him (because my father had already played some Sweeps for the five-parter anyway). My father did two takes, Wally liked the first but he asked my father if he could do it again, this time with an English accent, and at a slower pace, and that's the recording you hear in the final cut of the episode.

:Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2aND3Y9bc8

:My father's narration starts at 5:47.

:--[[User:IGFlanders|IGFlanders]] ([[User talk:IGFlanders|talk]]) 08:10, 7 December 2013 (EST)
::I'm trying not to be standoffish or insensitive here, but are you honestly asking us all to take at face value your ability to recall stories that your father told you over twenty years ago in in this ''insane'' level of minimal detail about a five-second unnamed bit-part fill-in role in a thirty-year-old cartoon? I'm sorry, but I'm finding this entire thing dubious. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 08:23, 7 December 2013 (EST)

:::Not at all, I thought you would love to hear an interesting anecdote. And yeah, I recall that I also had the same feeling as you, Mr. McFeely. My father was often insanely detailed when he talked about this show. I always said to myself "Why does he talk so much about a bit-part in an animated TV show". I remember that when the show ended, he barely even spoke about what he had been doing lately, even though he had a lot of important roles after Transformers ended. I don't recall everything he told me (this is the anecdote I will never forget, because of my odd reaction to his detailed description), but I recall his somewhat reaction everytime he talked about the show. It drove me nuts.
:::--[[User:IGFlanders|IGFlanders]] ([[User talk:IGFlanders|talk]]) 08:40, 7 December 2013 (EST)

Talk:Prima

2013-12-07T13:20:01Z

IGFlanders: /* Ed Flanders */

Talk:Prima

2013-12-07T13:18:06Z

IGFlanders: /* Ed Flanders */

Is Prima pronounced 'Prime-uh' or 'Preem-ah'? -[[User:69.88.91.218|69.88.91.218]] 20:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
:I doubt there any official sources on pronunciation for this, but I'd go with "Prime-uh" given the general "Primus" connection from which this name is obviously derived.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 20:25, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:Uh, I think Prima was the FIRST Matrix-bearer, according to the Creation Matrix. I don't think Primus counts as one. He's listed first because he IS the Matrix. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:30, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

So it is! I was thinking Primon came first.
:Primon is only ever mentioned in the Omega Point BotCon fiction. We're not really sure what his deal is, compared to Prima. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:41, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm feeling entirely too lazy to think up how to integrate it into the existing text, but it'd be important to mention that DK's "Ultimate Guide" book specifically states that Prima was the first Transformer of 'em all, accompanied by the panel from the G2 comic that showed the first TF emerging. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 21:49, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
:Aaaand, I see Derik's made that point already elsewhere. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 21:50, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Cartoon ==

I don't see how the bot previously known as "Powerful Robot" can be the first Transformer. He was a pre-Transformer for one thing, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt that "the first Transformer" doesn't literally mean he could transform. But, as the article says, he "was created from the corpse of another robot" so he was created late in the game. By Quintessons. Unless it was actually the guy who was recycled into "Powerful Robot" who was Prima. In which case, his entry has to be changed to make that clear. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 02:26, 2 July 2010 (EDT)
:Powerful Robot being Prima makes no damn sense at all. We see his creation, on screen, and it sure as hell wasn't as one of the original 13 Primus made way back before any Quintessons were around. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 16:29, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
::[[Unicron|The G1 cartoon not aligning with later retcons is not a new thing.]] [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 16:32, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
:::I also really hate after-the-fact presumptions and limitations on what prehistoric TFs actually could do / were doing, and like to minimize them as much as possible. Prima was there now? Well, if you say so. Since he was all godly and shit, let's say he was on the astral plane guiding the construction of what would turn out to be his body--so it SEEMED like he was being built, but he really wasn't. This can explain the sequencing too. I don't enjoy bullshit-fu, but it is a defensive martial art. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 16:46, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
::::That is some interesting fanon there, but FFoD tells us/shows us that "Powerful Robot" was recycled from "generic assembly line guy". That isn't an after the fact presumption, it is what happened. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:59, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::There's nothing stopping them from coming up with an explanation along the lines of "this dude was imbued with Prima's essence after being recycled". But we're getting off on a tangent. Regardless of how little sense it may make, canon says it's Prima, so here we go. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 17:11, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
:::This is a very specific G1 cartoon retcon. I thought maybe there was some logic to it I wasn't seeing. Like maybe Prima was the guy pulled off the assembly line and his essence somehow survived being recycled or something. I guess not. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:59, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
::::''The point is'', when you involve divinities, you can handwave away any contradiction as divine intervention and they just have to lie there and take it. His essence was involved SOMEWHERE to keep the sequencing intact. It's "fanon," but since all of the story material depicting Prima as the 1st TF can't go around contradicting itself with him being the 2nd, there is going to have to be SOME response to it on the part of the reader, be it in terms of ignoring it utterly or some form of bullshit-fu. You know where I stand. And no, of course none of that goes in the articles. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 17:14, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::I did not know Prima was a "divinity". For a guy created by the Quintessons from a different dead guy then soon after effortlessly shot dead by Quintessons, I think "divinity" might be stretching it. Where exactly was he depicted as godly anyway? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:11, 11 July 2010 (EDT)
::::::Have you read Forest Lee's multiversal explanation thing about The Fallen? The Thirteen are pretty much demigods. {{unsigned|173.71.105.23|15:35, July 11, 2010 (EDT)}}
:::::::Yes, I read that. I don't really know what to make of it. It is canon, I guess, but it hasn't actually happened (in fiction), as far as I know. People seem fond of saying that it is "bullshit-fu". Maybe it is just straight up bullshit. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:55, 11 July 2010 (EDT)
::::::::The eventual story of Prima, as sketched out at BC10, will reveal him to have been an "epic warrior of light" "like a Greek god", whose sword hilt has a little gem on it that gets used as the Matrix of Leadership--and based on how big Optimus Prime's chest is compared to the sword, Prima would be ~500 feet tall. If something that cosmic is supposed to be reconciled with "little dinky nobody who rolled off an assembly line in a completely different time period," then sure, he did some magic ghost woowoo. Again, it wouldn't go into the article, especially if, y'know, it's never actually published or said. But, again, people have to intellectually reconcile the notions ''somehow''. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 22:20, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

== Optimus Prime's ancestor ==

I only know it has been confirmed that Optimus Prime's ancestor has bee assigned to Prima. But I think we need to write down a source in Note section just like how we mention AllSpark Almanac II declared "Powerful Robot" is Prima via an Ask Vector Prime entry. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 03:44, 2 July 2010 (EDT)

==Recordicons nullification==
Apparently a Recordicons strip featured a Cybertronix declaration that Vector Prime was lying about FFOD. Stamped and licensed and published. Since the G1 retcons of the 13 were just a bad in-joke from the onset, I'm fine with seeing another in-joke obliterate it. Seriously. Does anyone else want to see the character concepts separated again? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 10:03, 3 March 2012 (EST)
:<s>The strip only said that Vector Prime "lies". Nothing specific.</s> Why are we taking the news ticker as more truthful than Vector Prime? And only one of them was one of the Thirteen. All of the others were just aligned with preexisting Prime names, which are always going to be better than "Brooding Robot" or "New Narrator". [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 10:13, 3 March 2012 (EST)

==Nitpicking==
Since the comic design is no longer Prima's official design shouldn't the Aligned one be up there instead? - Kohu

:I don't see why. Just because it's more recent doesn't mean it's more valid, I don't see G1 Optimus Prime's mainpic being in his new IDW Cybertronic form. The current pic shows him being, quite literally, the first Autobot. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 16:57, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

::With the Thirteen, there isn't really a "No longer their official design" factor. They look different in various universes.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 17:23, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

:::I vote not to change with the reason mentioned by above. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 20:23, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

::::Despite past canon I believe Hasbro's official stance is that Aligned is not part of the Multiverse which technically means Aligned Primus is not this guy and should have his own page anyway.--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 17:38, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::I think they overstated it or people have over interpreted it. Hasbro still considers the Prime characters as being the same (in some way) as the previous multiverse characters, as demonstrated by the Hall of Fame bios including data from Prime alongside data from other continuities. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 10:44, 21 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::: What they said was that anything established about previous versions of the characters will not be held as binding or true in the Aligned universe, including established "singularities" in that. Since the whole point of singularities is that their being is the same individual everywhere in the multiverse, saying that they are not so in Aligned kinda breaks connection to the multiverse. Now we could easily timely-wimpy up some be pseudo physics that patches that up, but until someone does it in canon I think their fairly officially seperate.--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 13:20, 21 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::::This has been discussed before, mostly re: Alpha Trion. What it comes down to is "nobody has gotten around to separating the Aligned versions of the Thirteen out, either because it's too much work or because they don't want to get yelled at the whole time they're doing it". -LV, not logged in
::::::::Wasn't there something about it qualifying as authorial intent and we wouldn't put that much work into it until something in-fiction would disprove their multiverse singularityness? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 17:56, 21 March 2012 (EDT)

== Ed Flanders ==

Well I'm just going to have to say I find that highly circumspect. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CMcZurH2vY Listen] (skip to 15:22). You will have to provide some kind of proof to me that that is NOT Neil Ross. Because... that's Neil Ross's voice. The non-Optimus Matrix spirit guides are only voiced by actors who are already in the episode performing a regular role (Bell as Scrapper, Ross as Springer, Jamin as Blast Off, Adler as Silverbolt, Clarke as Dead End, Angel as Magnus) and could freely double up for these no-name bit-roles. We know that FFoD had at least one major piece of cast re-recording (Gautier replacing Schwartz) so I guess Flanders could have done it and then Ross might've re-recorded it, but... [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 07:42, 7 December 2013 (EST)

:Actually it was more difficult than that. I recall that my father told me that he went to a non-ensemble recording for this episode (He didn't knew why, but he told me that Wally Burr seemed somewhat pressured that day). He later found out that it was because the two actors he had chosen for the role (Regis Cordic and Neil Ross), didn't seem to fit the role. He used Cordic in the ensemble session, then he went for Ross to replace Cordic's lines, and after watching the narration my father did for the beginning of The Ninth Configuration (in which he played Col. Fell), he decided to use him (because my father had already played some Sweeps for the five-parter anyway). My father did two takes, Wally liked the first but he asked my father if he could do it again, this time with an English accent, and that's the recording you hear in the final cut of the episode.

Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2aND3Y9bc8

My father's narration starts at 5:47.

:--[[User:IGFlanders|IGFlanders]] ([[User talk:IGFlanders|talk]]) 08:10, 7 December 2013 (EST)

Talk:Prima

2013-12-07T13:10:23Z

IGFlanders: /* Ed Flanders */

Is Prima pronounced 'Prime-uh' or 'Preem-ah'? -[[User:69.88.91.218|69.88.91.218]] 20:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
:I doubt there any official sources on pronunciation for this, but I'd go with "Prime-uh" given the general "Primus" connection from which this name is obviously derived.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 20:25, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:Uh, I think Prima was the FIRST Matrix-bearer, according to the Creation Matrix. I don't think Primus counts as one. He's listed first because he IS the Matrix. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:30, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

So it is! I was thinking Primon came first.
:Primon is only ever mentioned in the Omega Point BotCon fiction. We're not really sure what his deal is, compared to Prima. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:41, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm feeling entirely too lazy to think up how to integrate it into the existing text, but it'd be important to mention that DK's "Ultimate Guide" book specifically states that Prima was the first Transformer of 'em all, accompanied by the panel from the G2 comic that showed the first TF emerging. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 21:49, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
:Aaaand, I see Derik's made that point already elsewhere. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 21:50, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Cartoon ==

I don't see how the bot previously known as "Powerful Robot" can be the first Transformer. He was a pre-Transformer for one thing, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt that "the first Transformer" doesn't literally mean he could transform. But, as the article says, he "was created from the corpse of another robot" so he was created late in the game. By Quintessons. Unless it was actually the guy who was recycled into "Powerful Robot" who was Prima. In which case, his entry has to be changed to make that clear. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 02:26, 2 July 2010 (EDT)
:Powerful Robot being Prima makes no damn sense at all. We see his creation, on screen, and it sure as hell wasn't as one of the original 13 Primus made way back before any Quintessons were around. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 16:29, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
::[[Unicron|The G1 cartoon not aligning with later retcons is not a new thing.]] [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 16:32, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
:::I also really hate after-the-fact presumptions and limitations on what prehistoric TFs actually could do / were doing, and like to minimize them as much as possible. Prima was there now? Well, if you say so. Since he was all godly and shit, let's say he was on the astral plane guiding the construction of what would turn out to be his body--so it SEEMED like he was being built, but he really wasn't. This can explain the sequencing too. I don't enjoy bullshit-fu, but it is a defensive martial art. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 16:46, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
::::That is some interesting fanon there, but FFoD tells us/shows us that "Powerful Robot" was recycled from "generic assembly line guy". That isn't an after the fact presumption, it is what happened. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:59, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::There's nothing stopping them from coming up with an explanation along the lines of "this dude was imbued with Prima's essence after being recycled". But we're getting off on a tangent. Regardless of how little sense it may make, canon says it's Prima, so here we go. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 17:11, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
:::This is a very specific G1 cartoon retcon. I thought maybe there was some logic to it I wasn't seeing. Like maybe Prima was the guy pulled off the assembly line and his essence somehow survived being recycled or something. I guess not. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:59, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
::::''The point is'', when you involve divinities, you can handwave away any contradiction as divine intervention and they just have to lie there and take it. His essence was involved SOMEWHERE to keep the sequencing intact. It's "fanon," but since all of the story material depicting Prima as the 1st TF can't go around contradicting itself with him being the 2nd, there is going to have to be SOME response to it on the part of the reader, be it in terms of ignoring it utterly or some form of bullshit-fu. You know where I stand. And no, of course none of that goes in the articles. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 17:14, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
:::::I did not know Prima was a "divinity". For a guy created by the Quintessons from a different dead guy then soon after effortlessly shot dead by Quintessons, I think "divinity" might be stretching it. Where exactly was he depicted as godly anyway? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:11, 11 July 2010 (EDT)
::::::Have you read Forest Lee's multiversal explanation thing about The Fallen? The Thirteen are pretty much demigods. {{unsigned|173.71.105.23|15:35, July 11, 2010 (EDT)}}
:::::::Yes, I read that. I don't really know what to make of it. It is canon, I guess, but it hasn't actually happened (in fiction), as far as I know. People seem fond of saying that it is "bullshit-fu". Maybe it is just straight up bullshit. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:55, 11 July 2010 (EDT)
::::::::The eventual story of Prima, as sketched out at BC10, will reveal him to have been an "epic warrior of light" "like a Greek god", whose sword hilt has a little gem on it that gets used as the Matrix of Leadership--and based on how big Optimus Prime's chest is compared to the sword, Prima would be ~500 feet tall. If something that cosmic is supposed to be reconciled with "little dinky nobody who rolled off an assembly line in a completely different time period," then sure, he did some magic ghost woowoo. Again, it wouldn't go into the article, especially if, y'know, it's never actually published or said. But, again, people have to intellectually reconcile the notions ''somehow''. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 22:20, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

== Optimus Prime's ancestor ==

I only know it has been confirmed that Optimus Prime's ancestor has bee assigned to Prima. But I think we need to write down a source in Note section just like how we mention AllSpark Almanac II declared "Powerful Robot" is Prima via an Ask Vector Prime entry. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 03:44, 2 July 2010 (EDT)

==Recordicons nullification==
Apparently a Recordicons strip featured a Cybertronix declaration that Vector Prime was lying about FFOD. Stamped and licensed and published. Since the G1 retcons of the 13 were just a bad in-joke from the onset, I'm fine with seeing another in-joke obliterate it. Seriously. Does anyone else want to see the character concepts separated again? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 10:03, 3 March 2012 (EST)
:<s>The strip only said that Vector Prime "lies". Nothing specific.</s> Why are we taking the news ticker as more truthful than Vector Prime? And only one of them was one of the Thirteen. All of the others were just aligned with preexisting Prime names, which are always going to be better than "Brooding Robot" or "New Narrator". [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 10:13, 3 March 2012 (EST)

==Nitpicking==
Since the comic design is no longer Prima's official design shouldn't the Aligned one be up there instead? - Kohu

:I don't see why. Just because it's more recent doesn't mean it's more valid, I don't see G1 Optimus Prime's mainpic being in his new IDW Cybertronic form. The current pic shows him being, quite literally, the first Autobot. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 16:57, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

::With the Thirteen, there isn't really a "No longer their official design" factor. They look different in various universes.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 17:23, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

:::I vote not to change with the reason mentioned by above. --'''[[User:TX55|TX55]]'''''[[User talk:TX55|TALK]]'' 20:23, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

::::Despite past canon I believe Hasbro's official stance is that Aligned is not part of the Multiverse which technically means Aligned Primus is not this guy and should have his own page anyway.--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 17:38, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::I think they overstated it or people have over interpreted it. Hasbro still considers the Prime characters as being the same (in some way) as the previous multiverse characters, as demonstrated by the Hall of Fame bios including data from Prime alongside data from other continuities. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 10:44, 21 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::: What they said was that anything established about previous versions of the characters will not be held as binding or true in the Aligned universe, including established "singularities" in that. Since the whole point of singularities is that their being is the same individual everywhere in the multiverse, saying that they are not so in Aligned kinda breaks connection to the multiverse. Now we could easily timely-wimpy up some be pseudo physics that patches that up, but until someone does it in canon I think their fairly officially seperate.--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.76.206|76.28.76.206]] 13:20, 21 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::::This has been discussed before, mostly re: Alpha Trion. What it comes down to is "nobody has gotten around to separating the Aligned versions of the Thirteen out, either because it's too much work or because they don't want to get yelled at the whole time they're doing it". -LV, not logged in
::::::::Wasn't there something about it qualifying as authorial intent and we wouldn't put that much work into it until something in-fiction would disprove their multiverse singularityness? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 17:56, 21 March 2012 (EDT)

== Ed Flanders ==

Well I'm just going to have to say I find that highly circumspect. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CMcZurH2vY Listen] (skip to 15:22). You will have to provide some kind of proof to me that that is NOT Neil Ross. Because... that's Neil Ross's voice. The non-Optimus Matrix spirit guides are only voiced by actors who are already in the episode performing a regular role (Bell as Scrapper, Ross as Springer, Jamin as Blast Off, Adler as Silverbolt, Clarke as Dead End, Angel as Magnus) and could freely double up for these no-name bit-roles. We know that FFoD had at least one major piece of cast re-recording (Gautier replacing Schwartz) so I guess Flanders could have done it and then Ross might've re-recorded it, but... [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 07:42, 7 December 2013 (EST)

:Actually it was more difficult than that. I recall that my father told me that he went to a non-ensemble recording for this episode (He didn't knew why, but he told me that Wally Burr seemed somewhat pressured that day). He later found out that it was because the two actors he had chosen for the role (Regis Cordic and Neil Ross), didn't seem to fit the role. He used Cordic in the ensemble session, then he went for Ross to replace Cordic's lines, and after watching the narration my father did for the beginning of The Ninth Configuration (in which he played Col. Fell), he decided to use him (because my father had already played some Sweeps for the five-parter anyway). My father did two takes, Wally liked the first but he asked my father if he could do it again, this time with an English accent, and that's the recording you hear in the final cut of the episode.

:--[[User:IGFlanders|IGFlanders]] ([[User talk:IGFlanders|talk]]) 08:10, 7 December 2013 (EST)

Chief Lanarqan

2013-12-07T12:51:57Z

IGFlanders: /* The Transformers cartoon */

{{noname-designation}}

:''The Chief Lanarqan is an [[alien]] from the [[The Transformers (cartoon)|cartoon portion]] of the [[Generation 1 continuity family]].''

[[File:QuintessonJournal Chief Lanarqan.jpg|thumb|300px|"I will not give in to someone who hates nipple piercings!"]]

The '''Chief Lanarqan''' is the [[Lanarqan]] representative. He is not very flexible, quick to anger, and reluctant to compromise, much like his [[Aagar|opposite number]] on the [[Xetaxxan]] negotiating team.

==Fiction==
===''The Transformers'' cartoon===
:''Voice actor:'' [[Ed Flanders]] (English), [[Takurō Kitagawa]] (Japanese), [[Ulf Jürgen Söhmisch]] (German)

[[File:QuintessonJournal Delegate struggle.jpg|thumb|left|Why does he get a name and not me. This is an uneven negotiation!]]
The Chief Lanarqan attended a peace conference in the hopes of negotiating an end to the war between the neighbouring planets of [[Xetaxxis]] and [[Lanarq]], though the introductory handshake quickly turned into a scuffle. As the talks denigrated further and Aagar promised strong action, the Chief Lanarqan announced that he would respond in kind and both sides both stormed out. Returning to the Lanarqan quarters, he contacted the [[Quintesson]]s to ask for an update on their [[omega bomb]] delivery. The Chief Lanarqan was happy that the defeat of the Xetaxxans was imminent, unaware that the Quintessons were also delivering an omega bomb to their enemy.

Both diplomatic teams returned to the debating chamber and soon were engaged in a brawl which the [[Autobot]]s had to break up. The Chief Lenarqan announced it was the last straw, and returned to his quarters to demand the Quintessons make their delivery post haste. He subsequently returned to the negotiations and immediately charged at Aagar, only to be seized by [[Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Rodimus Prime]]. Rodimus attempted to get talks restarted, but the delegates merely pulled out guns and restarted the fight. It wasn't until more Autobots arrived with a [[Quintesson Journal]] detailing how the Quintessons had manipulated the two races that the delegates stopped fighting. Aagar and the Lanarqan leader swiftly agreed to keep to their own planets in future. {{storylink|The Quintesson Journal}}

==Notes==
===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Lanarq-sei daihyō ''' (ラナーク星代表 ''Ranāki-sei daihyō'', "Planet Lanarq Representative")

[[Category:Cartoon-only characters]]
[[Category:Generation 1 aliens]]

Sweep (G1)

2013-12-07T12:18:51Z

IGFlanders: /* The Transformers cartoon */

{{factions|decepticon|unicron}}
{{picsneeded|And no, we will not accept pictures that are actually Scourge!}}
{{disambig2|the 1986 Decepticon|the 2003 Mini-con known as "Sweep" in Japan|Run-Over}}
:''Sweeps are [[Decepticon]]s from the [[Generation 1 continuity family|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''

[[File:TVM0287Sweeps.jpg|thumb|350px|Noticeably not involved in a heart-warming musical number with Dick van Dyke and Julie Andrews.]]

'''Sweeps''' are the minions of [[Scourge (G1)|Scourge]] created by [[Unicron]]. Sweeps are visually indistinguishable from Scourge himself, although Sweeps do not necessarily have identical voices. Although only a few are seen initially during Unicron's threat, there appears to be an inexhaustible supply of them later on. That's actually a good thing, as [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]] tends to shoot them.

Like, all the time.

Only three Sweeps have been graced with defined personalities and identifiers, namely Sweeps [[Sweep Two|Two]], [[Sweep Six|Six]] and [[Sweep Seven|Seven]].

{{quote|Dumb Sweep.|[[Sludge (G1)|Sludge]] calling the kettle black|"[[Webworld]]"}}

==Fiction==
===Generation 1 cartoon continuity===
====''The Transformers'' cartoon====
{{voiceactor|[[Jack Angel]], [[Ed Flanders]], [[Dick Gautier]], [[Jerry Houser]], [[Aron Kincaid]], [[Chris Latta]], [[Hal Rayle]], [[Frank Welker]] (English), [[Yoku Shioya]] (Japanese)|[[Holger Schwiers]], [[Reinhard Brock]], [[Imo Heite]], [[Hans-Rainer Müller]], [[Ulrich Bernsdorff]], [[Gerhard Acktun]], [[Bernd Simon]], [[Gernot Duda]], [[Thomas Rau]], [[Gerd Wiedenhofen]] (German)}}

Two Sweeps were created by Unicron from the fallen Decepticons [[Shrapnel (G1)|Shrapnel]] and [[Kickback (G1)|Kickback]], though seconds later there were suddenly more of them. They soon followed [[Galvatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Galvatron]] to [[Autobot City (G1)|Autobot City]], where one Sweep was destroyed by the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobots]]' [[fire-breath]]. The [[Autobot]]s fled the city, but Galvatron's troops followed suit, and the Sweeps killed [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ultra Magnus]] on the [[Junkion (planet)|planet of Junk]]. {{storylink|The Transformers: The Movie}}

{{note|One of the great continuity problems within the G1 animated series concerns the minions of Unicron. Namely, Cyclonus, Scourge, and the Sweeps. The issue stems from the original script never specifying which Decepticons were thrown off Astrotrain and remade into Galvatron’s followers essentially rendering them [[generic]]s. As the third season episodes were most likely made using the script and not the as-yet-unfinished film, the Insecticons regularly reappeared in later episodes as well as later on in the movie itself. Much scuttlebutt has been made about who has been turned into whom, but ultimately, it falls on the viewer to decide who were the genuine article and who were Decepticons that simply looked like these characters.}}

[[File:FFOD3 Sweeps.JPG|left|280px|thumb|A rare moment of not being shot by Galvatron.]]

After Galvatron's defeat at the hands of [[Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Rodimus Prime]], the Sweeps followed Scourge and [[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]] in their search for him. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 1}} They eventually discovered him on the planet of [[Thrull]], only to be attacked by their crazed leader. Galvatron sent every single Sweep crashing into the planet's plasma pits, and the only one that fought back did no damage whatsoever to his leader. They all survived, though, and followed Galvatron's commands after he regained his senses (kind of). {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 2}}

One of them got shot in the face by [[Wheelie (G1)|Wheelie]], and promptly crashed into a storm on the surface of [[Jupiter]], screaming all the way down. As this Sweep died an agonizing death, the last thing he likely heard was his own commander calling him a big baby. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 3}} Next, Galvatron led the Sweeps to the planet [[Goo 8739B|Goo]] and ordered them to fire on all Decepticons who were following the [[Quintesson]]s instead of him. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 4}} After Galvatron joined forces with the Quintessons, the Sweeps participated in an all-out attack on [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]. [[Slingshot (G1)|Slingshot]] sent one of them spinning out of control, causing a bunch of them to crash into each other (and Cyclonus). {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 5}}

[[File:StarscreamsGhost Sweeps.jpg|250px|thumb|"They're mongrels. No spots! No spots at all!"]]
Some Sweeps were part of the Decepticon armada that pursued an Autobot ship. They pursued the ship to an [[Autobot Mausoleum]], where they were fought off by the resurrected [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]. {{storylink|Dark Awakening}} Much later, three Sweeps hunted the Decepticon exile [[Octane]] alongside Scourge and Cyclonus, and cornered him in a [[Decepticon Crypt|crypt]] on Cybertron. When Scourge ordered the Sweeps to enter the crypt, all three cowardly refused to be the first one in, until Cyclonus got fed up with it and offered to fight whoever was the last one in. The Sweeps were suddenly very quick on their feet after that. {{storylink|Starscream's Ghost}}

Cyclonus and Scourge were accompanied by some Sweeps when they followed [[Daniel Witwicky (G1)|Daniel Witwicky]] and [[Wheelie (G1)|Wheelie]] to a [[Lost Cybertronian Storage Asteroid|storage asteroid]]. Ultra Magnus turned up to rescue Daniel, and made short work of the Sweeps. {{storylink|Surprise Party}} Scourge was later possessed by the ghost of [[Starscream (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Starscream]], and the Sweeps briefly fell under the command of Cyclonus. {{storylink|Ghost in the Machine (episode)|Ghost in the Machine}}

[[File:Webworld Sweeps.jpg|thumb|left|230px|Don't be fooled by the dynamic camera shot, they get beaten up shortly.]]
More Sweeps were unfortunately enough to be with Galvatron during a battle over [[isidrite]], and were bashed around by their leader nearly as much as by the Autobots. {{storylink|Webworld}} Cyclonus was accompanied by a number of Sweeps as he investigated strange activity on Junk. Once the [[Junkion (species)|Junkion]]s had been fried from the influence of the Quintessons, they sent Cyclonus and hsi men packing. {{storylink|The Big Broadcast of 2006 (episode)|The Big Broadcast of 2006}} They later helped Galvatron temporarily take possession of a [[Quintesson Journal]], at least until the Quintessons themselves arrived and took it back. {{storylink|The Quintesson Journal}}

A number of Sweeps later followed Galvatron when he was tricked by the [[Quintesson]]s into releasing the dangerous [[Trans-Organic]]s sealed beneath Cybertron's surface. They didn't fare too well against the monsters, and even worse against the one known as the "[[Dweller]]". As Galvatron fled from the beast, he threw the remaining Sweeps at its horde of [[energy vampire]]s in order to slow them down. The Sweeps all became energy vampires themselves, but were later cured by a massive power surge. {{storylink|The Dweller in the Depths}}

During a battle with the Autobots on the [[Moon (moon)|moon]], "Sweeps [[Sweep Six|Six]] and [[Sweep Seven|Seven]]" made an attack run on the enemy position. This is the only known occasion when the Sweeps received any form of individual identification. {{storylink|Call of the Primitives}} The Sweeps took part in a couple of attacks on [[Japan]], but were beaten back by the Autobots both times. {{storylink|The Burden Hardest to Bear}} When the madness-inducing [[Hate Plague]] spread throughout the universe, the Sweeps were among its numerous victims. At least one of them was shot down by Galvatron as they chased him across [[Chaar]]. {{storylink|The Return of Optimus Prime, Part 2}}

{{note|The varying number of Sweeps is never explained in-fiction. As many as five excluding Scourge have appeared simultaneously, "[[The Dweller in the Depths]]", not even counting the various destroyed Sweeps. One fairly popular [[fanon]] explanation is that since the Sweeps were formed from the bodies of [[Insecticon (G1)|Insecticons]], they possess similar [[cloning]] powers, but this has never been supported by any official material.}}

====''The Headmasters'' cartoon====
[[File:HM6 Galvatron, Scourge and Sweeps.jpg|thumb|right|200px|The one on the right is actually Scourge.]]
Peeking their heads out to see if Galvatron was still kill-crazy, two Sweeps joined Scourge in sabotaging Autobot rescue operations after [[Metamorphose]] twisted the [[Aerialbot (G1)|Aerialbot]]s into a mess. {{storylink|Approach of the Demon Meteorite}} Several Sweeps were also seen on the [[Moon (moon)|moon]] during [[Scorponok (G1)|Scorponok]]'s grand declaration of leadership. {{storylink|Return of the Immortal Emperor}}
{{--}}

====''Wings Universe''====
Cyclonus, Scourge, and his Sweeps surrounded an [[Autobot shuttle]] during a surprise attack. They temporarily lost track of the shuttle when it disappeared into a nebula, but eventually found it again and blasted their way into it. Unfortunately, what they found inside was five ''very'' angry [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobots]], who promptly tore the Sweeps apart. {{storylink|Wings of Honor}}

===Marvel Comics continuity===
The Sweeps were created by Unicron to be a pack of hunters for the sole purpose of hunting Autobots and their human allies. Their leader is Scourge. {{storylink|The Transformers Universe|Scourge's ''Universe'' profile}}

===''G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers''===
[[File:GIJoeVsTFII3 Sweeps.jpg|thumb|left|250px]]
In a dystopian future where the Decepticons had conquered Earth, Sweeps patrolled the ruins of [[New York City]]. They discovered a group of time-displaced [[G.I. Joe (team)|G.I. Joes]] and [[Cobra]] members, but were taken out by the [[Dreadnok]]s. {{storylink|G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers II issue 3|G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers II #3}} Some time after that timeline was averted via [[time travel]], the Sweeps were seen among [[Serpentor|Serpent O.R.]]'s forces on Cybertron, fighting back against a combined Autobot/[[G.I. Joe (team)|G.I. Joe]] strike force. {{storylink|The Art of War issue 5|The Art of War #5}}
{{--}}

===IDW Generation 1 continuity===
On [[Gorlam Prime]], [[Galvatron (G1)/IDW Generation 1 continuity|Galvatron]] tossed the dying [[Scourge (G1)|Scourge]] into a [[solar pool]] and using the power of the [[Darkness (G1)|Heart of Darkness]], brought him back to full strength. The pool, which also contained the remains of denizens from the [[Dead Universe]], reformatted the bodies into clones of Scourge, who would be their master. Galvatron was incensed that the Sweeps were not created in ''his'' image. Scourge, his Sweeps and [[Cyclonus (G1)/IDW Generation 1 continuity|Cyclonus]] then began to aid Galvatron on his new quest. {{storylink|All Hail Megatron issue 14|All Hail Megatron #14}} Their first mission was to scour Gorlam Prime for its inhabitants, who had disappeared without a trace. While Galvatron, Scourge and Cyclonus went underground and found [[Jhiaxus (G2)|Jhiaxus]], the Sweeps were apparently all busy searching other parts of the planet. {{storylink|Heart of Darkness issue 1|Heart of Darkness #1}}

The Sweeps accompanied Galvatron as he traveled the galaxy raising the dead to form an army with which to oppose [[D-Void]]. Among the many planets they visited was [[Spindrift]]. {{storylink|Heart of Darkness issue 3|Heart of Darkness #3}} They were present when Galvatron fought [[Nova Prime|Nemesis Prime]] on the planet [[Dykayra]], and several of them were killed when Scourge ordered them to attack the D-Void-powered menace. {{storylink|Heart of Darkness issue 4|Heart of Darkness #4}} Over time, members of Galvatron's undead army were gradually turned into additional Sweeps until the army consisted of nothing but identical soldiers, a change likely brought about by the Heart of Darkness. {{storylink|A Better Tomorrow}}

In a universe where a [[zombie]] virus collectively called [[Undermind]] was attempting to spread to other universes, four portals opened that depicted scenes from four separate universes. In one of these portals, an infected Sweep or two was seen amongst zombified robots and humans. {{storylink|Infestation issue 1|Infestation #1}} The infection had occurred when Galvatron's ship encountered a space-time anomaly on its way to [[Earth]]. He ordered three Sweeps to retrieve a frozen chunk of wreckage that had been flung from the anomaly, but when it was brought on board, zombie humans and robots erupted from it, infecting the three Sweeps. Eventually, the ship crash-landed on Earth, where the infected Sweeps scattered through [[Las Vegas]]. {{storylink|The Transformers: Infestation issue 1|The Transformers: Infestation #1}}

After the zombie threat had been dealt with, Galvatron took his army with him to [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]], their first line of defense against D-Void. As the Sweeps were sent out to scout the planet, one of them discovered [[Hot Rod (G1)|Rodimus]] and [[Wheelie (G1)|Wheelie]]. Noting that they were [[Slingshot (weapon)|armed]], he broke Galvatron's orders by engaging the Autobots, and was subsequently shot down by Wheelie. Galvatron used the Darkness to heal the Sweep's injuries and scolded him, telling him that all Transformers needed to work together. The other Sweeps then tried and failed to stop Rodimus's starship from leaving Cybertron. {{storylink|Heart of Darkness issue 4|Heart of Darkness #4}} {{storylink|Space Opera Act 2: Out of the Silent Planet}}

Under the command of Cyclonus, a large number of Sweeps invaded [[Kimia Facility]] in order to take control of it for Galvatron's use. Their numbers easily overwhelmed the Autobot defenders, and some of them were even seen ''eating'' their enemies. Meanwhile, [[Optimus Prime (G1)/IDW Generation 1 continuity|Optimus Prime]] arrived on Cybertron but refused to join Galvatron's army, and several Sweeps were sent to destroy him and his landing party. They were all killed, and [[Ironhide (G1)|Ironhide]] used one of the corpses to clobber Galvatron. {{storylink|Chaos Part One: Lamentations}} While a number of Sweeps defended Kimia from aerial Autobot forces, most stayed behind with Galvatron until Wheelie tried to snipe him only to kill a Sweep instead. An enraged Galvatron sent his entire Sweep army at him and [[Cliffjumper (G1)|Cliffjumper]], who in turn called for reinforcements, leading to a large-scale battle between the Sweeps and Optimus Prime's troops. Wheelie and Cliffjumper were almost overrun, but were suddenly saved by [[Megatron (G1)/IDW Generation 1 continuity|Megatron]]. {{storylink|Chaos Part Two: Numbers}}

Megatron, heavily upgraded and very unhappy, took on hundreds and hundreds of Sweeps on his own with little trouble. Together with Megatron's Decepticon forces, the entire Sweep army then came under the influence of D-Void, causing them to combine into an enormous monster. {{storylink|Chaos Part Three: Kings}} Megatron challenged this "[[Deceptigod]]", blowing huge chunks of Sweeps off its body with his blasts and ultimately defeating it. When Galvatron gave up the Heart of Darkness and D-Void began to enter the universe, the Sweeps began disintegrating and returned to being dead. {{storylink|Chaos Part Four: Genesis}}

After Galvatron was defeated and Cybertron was "reset" into a primordial state, Sweep corpses could be found littering the planet. {{storylink|Transformers: The Death of Optimus Prime|The Death of Optimus Prime}} The less-than-balanced [[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]] used some of them as stress relief, mutilating the dead bodies and stringing them up on walls. {{storylink|Liars, A to D Part 1: How to Say Goodbye and Mean It|How to Say Goodbye and Mean It}} Later, [[Sky-Byte (G2)|Sky-Byte]] found some of them and was reminded of someone he once knew. {{storylink|A Better Tomorrow}} Megatron was carrying several Sweep heads when he reemerged months after his battle with them. {{storylink|City on Fire}}

==Toys==
===Timelines===
[[File:Timelinestoy-SweepsWoH.jpg|thumb|300px|Why are all the armybuilding versions of this mold rare exclusives?]]
*'''Sweeps''' (multipack, 2009)
**''Accessories:'' Six wings/blades (left and right), three yellow [[Planet X (Cybertron)|Planet X]]-style [[Cyber Key]]s

: Sweeps [[Sweep Two#Toys|Two]], [[Sweep Six#Toys|Six]] and [[Sweep Seven#Toys|Seven]] came in an [[exclusive]] three-pack at [[BotCon 2009]], all three being identical [[redeco]]s of the ''Timelines'' [[Scourge (G1)#Timelines|Scourge]] toy available at the same convention. The mold is a [[retool]] of ''[[Transformers: Cybertron (franchise)|Cybertron]]'' [[Sideways (RID)#Cybertron|Sideways]] with a new head, transforming into a teal and white alien spacefighter with yellow detailing. The Sweeps are armed with "battle shields" with Cyber Key-activated pop-out blades. Their wings can also detach from their ankles and also be used as blades, with both [[5mm post|pegging]] into their hands, either with one blade in each hand, or with both blades pegging into the top and bottom of a single hand, forming a double-bladed weapon. They come with three yellow Planet X-style Cyber Keys with teal deco.

: The Sweeps were later repurposed as ''[[Transformers: Shattered Glass (toyline)|Shattered Glass]]'' [[Scourge (SG)|Scourge]]. The original version of this mold was also used for the Japanese DVD-exclusive [[Noisemaze Mass Production Type Version#Galaxy Force|Noisemaze Mass Production Type Version]] and ''[[Transformers: Universe (2008 franchise)|Universe]]'' [[Ratbat (G1)#Universe (2008)|Ratbat]].

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2009/Decepticon/BCSweeps/sweeps.htm More information on Sweeps at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

==Notes==
[[File:Scourge and Sweeps.jpg|thumb|300px|Imaginaaaaation-land!]]
* While there have been no ''official'' toys of the Sweeps that were mass-released, and no official toys ''at all'' prior to 2009, anyone interested in [[army-building|building a Sweep army]] is not without options! As the Sweeps are physically identical to Scourge, an enterprising fan, like the one who created the scene pictured at right, can purchase multiples of Scourge's original 1986 toy, his [[Titanium Series]] figure or his [[Scourge (G1)#Generations|2011 Generations toy]], and make pretend.

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Sweeps''' (スウィープス ''Suīpusu'')
*''Italian:'' '''Incrociatori'''

[[Category:Decepticon subgroups]]
[[Category:Generation 1 subgroups]]
[[Category:Mass-produced Transformers]]
[[Category:Unicron]]
[[Category:Wings Universe Decepticons]]
[[Category:Zombies]]

Prima

2013-12-07T12:05:57Z

IGFlanders: Undo revision 841124 by Chris McFeely (talk) Actually, this was my father's first character

{{factions|quintesson|{{factions/icons|custom=Cyberglyphics Prime Symbol.png|cLink=Dynasty of Primes|cPretty=Prime}}}}
{{quote|We are '''Primus'''. We are '''Prima'''. We are '''Prime Nova'''. We are '''Sentinel Prime'''. We are '''Optimus Prime'''.|The essence of the Primes|"[[Dark Creation]]"}}

[[File:Prima.jpg|300px|thumb|Prima? What? It's a manly name.]]
'''Prima''' was the first [[Transformer]]. Created by [[Primus]], he was appointed the Warrior of Light and given the legendary [[Star Saber (Prima)|Star Saber]] sword with the [[Matrix of Leadership]] in its hilt.<ref>According to the [[Keeper (Transformer)|Keeper]] in "[[The Primal Scream|Primal Scream]]", Marvel US #61</ref><ref>[[Nexus Prime]]'s bio in [[Hasbro Transformers Collectors' Club issue 30]]</ref> Chosen to lead the [[Thirteen]] against their eternal enemy [[Unicron]], he and the rest of the Thirteen were made stewards of Primus' planetary form, [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]. Its [[planetary engine]]s carried Cybertron across space to Unicron, where they sought battle, but Prima and the Thirteen were betrayed by one of their own, a being who would be known as [[The Fallen]].

Despite this betrayal, and despite the Thirteen's apparent demise, The Fallen and Unicron were defeated and sucked through a black hole and into another dimension.<ref>DK's ''[[Transformers: The Ultimate Guide]]''</ref>

It is uncertain what relationship Prima has, if any, to [[Primon]], another early Matrix bearer.

==Fiction==
===''The Transformers'' cartoon===
{{voiceactor|[[Ed Flanders]] (English)}}
[[File:Powerfulrobot ffod.jpg|left|250px|thumb|I am Sparktacus!]]

Prima was created from the corpse of another robot which the [[Quintesson]]s deactivated for its underperformance in its tasks. The robot was instantly smelted down and reformed into Prima, who, through unknown circumstances, became the second documented bearer of the [[Matrix of Leadership]]. Prima was unusual amongst his consumer goods brethren in that he was equipped for combat, and was made to battle in the Quintessons' gladiatorial pits. He found the endless fighting repellent, and, after a battle with [[Sentinel Prime (G1)|Sentinel Major]], decided to strike back at his masters, leaping at the group of Quintessons that had been watching the match. He was blasted out of the air, and fell to the ground in a smoking wreck, apparently deceased. He was succeeded as Matrix-bearer by [[Prime Nova]].

When [[Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Rodimus Prime]] journeyed inside the Matrix, Prima was the second guide he encountered, and told him the story of the Quintessons' gladiatorial matches. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 4}}
{{-}}

===Marvel Comics continuity===
[[File:Primag2.jpg|200px|thumb|Prima. For reals.<ref>''The Ultimate Guide'' identified the robot in this series of panels as Prima.</ref>]]
After [[Primus]] had imprisoned his and [[Unicron]]'s astral forms in asteroids, he reshaped his new body into the planet [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]. From the material of this world was born the first Transformer, Prima. Prima and his fellow Transformers were given the gift of transformation, an ability that mirrored Unicron's own powers, so that one day they would be able unite against him and defeat him. Prima was given the [[Matrix of Leadership|Genetic Matrix]], a powerful artifact endowed with Primus' own life essence, which would allow Prima to create further generations of Transformers. {{storylink|The Primal Scream}} {{storylink|The Power and the Glory}}

It is not known what Prima's fate was, but [[Prime Nova]] is recorded as the next Matrix bearer.{{storylink|Dark Creation}}
{{-}}

===IDW ''Generation 1'' comics===
[[File:GrandImperiumChaosTheory.jpg|left|thumb|150px|''[[Transformers Vault]]'' is popular reading in the Grand Imperium.]]
Before the war statues of Prima wielding his sword oversaw the Senate chamber within the [[Grand Imperium]] {{storylink|Chaos Theory Part 2}} and the [[Primal Basilica]]. {{storylink|Shadowplay (Conclusion): An Intimate Beheading|An Intimate Beheading}}
{{-}}

===Live-action movie continuity===
====IDW ''Revenge of the Fallen'' comics====
[[File:TalesoftheFallen4-notlikethis.jpg|thumb|300px|Optimus got his father's everything.]]
Prima proposed to the [[Dynasty of Primes]] that they should make it a rule to not destroy the stars from systems with life. He also renamed [[the Fallen]] after the latter intentionally destroyed such a system. When the Fallen attempted this again on [[Earth]], the original seven Primes battled him and fell one by one, until only Prima was left. Prima let the Fallen chase him around the planet until he was weakened by overusing [[space bridge]]s, allowing Prima to gather his brothers' bodies and use their remaining power to banish the Fallen to his [[sarcophagus]]. {{storylink|Tales of the Fallen issue 4|Tales of the Fallen #4}}

Prima presumably created a [[Tomb of the Primes|tomb]] from his and his brothers' bodies to hide the [[Matrix of Leadership]], giving his own spark to seal it from within. Though the Fallen's evil would return to [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] to kill the rest of the Dynasty, it would be his [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|orphaned descendant]] who would be hidden away. {{storylink|Revenge of the Fallen issue 3|Revenge of the Fallen #3}}

====''Revenge of the Fallen'' film====
After the Fallen was caught trying to harvest a [[Sun|star]] from a system with life, he turned on the other Primes and made war on them. In order to prevent the Fallen from harvesting the star, the remaining Primes (including Prima) hid the [[Matrix of Leadership|key to the harvester]] inside a tomb made of their own bodies and sealed it with their own life essence. {{storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen}}

{{note|All of the Primes in the film are stylistically different from the protoform Optimus Prime toy, so identifying which one is Prima is not possible.}}

===''Timelines''===
In order to protect the location of Prima's incredibly powerful [[Star Saber (Prima)|Star Saber]] sword, [[Vector Prime]] and [[Alpha Trion (WFC)|Alpha Trion]] cut [[Nexus Prime]] into five pieces and scattered them across the cosmos. {{storylink|Hasbro Transformers Collectors' Club issue 30|Nexus Prime's profile}}

===Aligned continuity===
[[File:TransformersVault-Prima.jpg|thumb|left|Whoever lives by the sword shall die by the sword.]]
Prima was the first Transformer on Cybertron, and the leader of the 13. A hero known as the Warrior of Light, he is white in appearance and carries a [[Star Saber (Prima)|massive sword]] with the Matrix of Leadership embedded within its hilt.<ref>[http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/conventions-15/botcon-2010-hasbro-designers-panel-170066/page13.html TFW2005 discussion of BotCon 2010 Hasbro designer panel]</ref> Transformers who claim Prima in their lineage possess a "Primian" polarity. Among these Transformers are [[Optimus Prime (WFC)|Optimus Prime]], whose primary polarity is Primian. {{storylink|Transformers Vault}}

====''Prime'' cartoon====
[[File:OneShallRise1-Prima.jpg|thumb|200px|He's the leader of the bunch. You know him well.]]

According to legend, at the beginning of time, [[Unicron]] and [[Primus]] battled each other for eons, with neither side remaining victorious for long. Till, that is, Primus created the [[Thirteen]]. These Thirteen defeated Unicron and cast him into space. {{storylink|One Shall Rise, Part 1}}

At some point statues of Prima and his brothers were made. They were placed in the chamber of the High Council. {{storylink|One Shall Rise, Part 3}}

====''The Covenant of Primus''====
{{storylink|Transformers: The Covenant of Primus|The Covenant of Primus}}
{{comingsoon|when=December 3, 2013}}

==Toys==
===''Transformers'' (2007)===
[[File:Movie ProtoformOptimusPrime toy.jpg|250px|thumb|Guess who ya gotta buy now to finish your [[Thirteen]] collection?]]
*'''Protoform Optimus Prime''' (Deluxe Class, 2007)
**''Japanese ID number:'' '''MA-05'''
**''Accessories:'' Gun with flame attachment
:Prima was [[repurposing|repurposed]] from [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Protoform Optimus Prime]]. Based upon the "[[Protoform]]" (Cybertronian) appearances of the Transformers in the Movie, Protoform [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] transforms into his "entry" mode. This mode somewhat resembles a cybertronic truck, with false wheels sculpted onto the sides and Optimus Prime's trademark windows in front. A flame decoration piece fits to the back of the "vehicle", creating the illusion of a flaming comet's tail. The bottom of the vehicle has small wheels to roll the toy across smooth surfaces. Oddly, it has NO [[Automorph Technology]] gimmick at all, a feature most main-line figures have.

:In robot mode, he resembles previous Optimus characters: His angular chest windows are reminiscent of ''[[Transformers: Cybertron (franchise)|Cybertron]]'' [[Optimus Prime (Armada)|Optimus Prime]], while his near-animalistic limbs and color scheme are evocative of ''[[Beast Wars: Transformers (franchise)|Beast Wars]]'' [[Optimus Primal]]. He has excellent articulation due to his many ball joints, and is armed with a rifle. The flame attachment can fit onto the end of the (non-firing) gun barrel.

:Some packaging variants of this figure (perhaps a Wal-Mart exclusive) included a free movie poster depicting a Cybertronian eye overlooking Earth. While an added sticker to the outer plastic bubble says "Exclusive movie poster!", it is more of a preview of upcoming figures.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2007/Autobot/ProtoformOptimusPrime/optimusprime.htm More information on Protoform Optimus Prime at TFU.info]''

==Notes==
*The Generation 1 cartoon incarnation of Prima was never named in the cartoon, instead being named "'''Powerful Robot'''" in the dialogue script for "Five Faces of Darkness, Part 4". An edition of [[Ask Vector Prime]] in ''[[Transformers Animated: The AllSpark Almanac II|The AllSpark Almanac II]]'' came along and dubbed the character Prima. How that gels with other appearances of Prima, who knows.
* Prima's Generation 1 cartoon [[character model]] appears to use [[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]] as a base, with heavily-re-worked details.
* In a 1989 Marvel UK issue, [[Dreadwind (G1)|Dreadwind]] told a reader "I don't think anyone knows who was actually the first ever Transformer. Correct me if I'm wrong though."<ref>[http://transfans.co.uk/comics_guide_detail.php?id=297&page=12 #240's letters page]</ref> It took many years but [[Hasbro|someone]] finally did!

==Footnotes==
{{Reflist}}

{{spiritguides nav}}

[[Category:Generation 1 Transformers]]
[[Category:Gladiators]]
[[Category:Matrix bearers]]
[[Category:Prime Transformers]]
[[Category:Repurposed toys]]
[[Category:Revenge of the Fallen Transformers]]
[[Category:Thirteen]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron characters]]