MediaWiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:The Fallen

2024-11-04T20:34:22Z

Jasenomous TF:

[[File:RID-megatronussparkmerger.jpg|thumb|right|250px|unused image]]

That bit about how the Fallen was created by Pat Lee? In the latest edition of Wayward's [http://www.insecticons.com/insecticomics.html Insecticomics] it is said that it was actually Furman who created the character, that Lee just did the design. When I asked her about it, she posted this [http://p206.ezboard.com/fthepaddedcell71381frm19.showMessage?topicID=2995.topic&index=107 transcript] which backs that up. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 14:46, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

== Trivia ==

OK so I just left line in the trivia, cos I thought it was funny.
*So he's the henchman of a evil being, has mystical supernatural powers, is a badass and is on fire? Someone might want to file a law suit.

Can it stay or should I take it back down?[[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 09:33, 22 June 2009 (EDT)

..I don't even get that. [[User:AlwaysWrong|AlwaysWrong]] 22:44, 10 June 2009 (EDT)
:It was removed, it contained a link to the wikipedia article for Ghost Rider[[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 09:33, 22 June 2009 (EDT)

==Head==
Anyone notice that his head is very Soundwave-y? When i first saw him, i clearly recognized his head as soundwave's with added badassery.--[[User:Skyglide|Skyglide]] 05:35, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

==Disambig time?==
http://www.hasbro.com/transformers/default.cfm?page=News/Item&newsid=59522272-D56F-E112-4C783175A8BBBAD6

Ah-heh.

(SOMEBODY IN THAT MOVIE DAMN WELL BETTER BE ON FIRE.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:39, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

==Fallen, Bludgeon and Megs==

I don't know about Bludgeon, but there is a connection between the Fallen and Megs: IDW Megatron's Cybertronian body is based off of the Fallen, right down to the design of the Fusion Cannon. [[User:GWolfv2]] 21.07 June 11

== Defiance issue 4 Fallen's backstory ==

Defiance issue 4 is out. [http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-movie-just-movie-31/revenge-of-the-fallen-prequel-comic-defiance-4-provides-potential-movie-spoilers-167267/ TFW2005.com has posted all the Fallen-relevant spoilers from issue 4, but beware, if you're avoiding Defiance, this spoils the Fallen's crazy scheme in the movie]. The backstory for the Fallen seems fairly different to the Fallen we know. So are they still the same guy? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:56, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
:Still appears to be a member of the Thirteen, still appears to betray them, still apparently serves a force that devours planets/stars.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 15:12, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
::But from what I understand of the "multiversal singularity" characters thing, there's just one Fallen, so the guy created by Primus who eventually serves Unicron is also a guy created by a Cube who serves nobody but himself and is building solar towers to replenish the Cube. Or is the currently-untold story of the 13 vague enough that this still works? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 15:20, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
::It does seem pretty distinct. One's a "created by mighty power source, got selfish, betrayed his brothers, now want to kick off where things went wrong" other "created as a multiversal control for entrophy and warrior against Unicron. Switched sides. Most dangerous servant of the ultimate evil ever". [[User:Eire]] 21.21 Apr 8 2009 (UTC)
:I don't trust a 3rd party summary written by someone who may not fully understand the story to accurately represent what's actually in the story. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:44, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
::In any case, I suspect we are probably going to need to wait to see what the movie itself has to say before making a decision on this. It may expand on what is presented in the comic, it may contradict it in some way, it could make it easier to tie this version in with the previous mythos or may firmly separate it, etc. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 17:54, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
:::I don't think we would have to wait until the movie if the comic is fairly clear on the matter. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 17:59, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
::::I think we do, because as I said, we have no way of knowing in advance how well the actual movie will line up with the comic. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 18:05, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
:The Fallen is one thing, but what about definite "multiversal singularity" Primus? Does the AllSpark=Primus in the movieverse? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 17:59, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
::The AllSpark has been designated a [[sacred implement]] in Japanese fiction.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 18:07, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
:::It is not uncommon for Transformers to have no knowledge of Primus or Unicron. For every world where they have a full-blown religion to fill them in, you have one where the Transformers have neither heard of either-- remember in [[The Transformers: The Movie]] Hot Rod and Kup had never even heard Unicron's name before. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:06, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
Did they not mention that the Fallen calls himself and his other pals "trans-dimensional beings"? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:48, 8 April 2009 (EDT)
:Not the mention [http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2009-04-01-transformers-first-look_N.htm this interview] affirming he's the original and was "banished to another dimension." -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:06, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
::I think what they mean by that is that he's stuck in that stupid pylon. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:15, 15 April 2009 (EDT)

==The Fallen gets Power Plans!==
[http://transformerslive.blogspot.com/2009/05/transformers-movie-universe-preview.html] Preview page from the upcoming DK Ultimate Movie Guide, which is totally written by Furman. It establishes a few important things. The Fallen is an "omniversal tyrant." He betrayed his fellow Primes to serve the source of his new "chaotic" powers "from the very birth of the universe," forces which seek to replace morality with a "void." --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:06, 18 May 2009 (EDT)
:If Nimoy is cast as him, it will be the second time in his career that he'll be playing some sort of servant of Unicron. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 02:36, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

== Subject Seperation ==

Will you make a separate page the live action version of the Fallen? --Some Random User guy {{unsigned|69.230.53.229|00:50, May 20, 2009 EDT}}
:As we far as we know, the Fallen is a multi-dimensional being that can... you get the picture. If this Fallen is established as a seperate being, then maybe.--[[User:AWT88|AWT88]] 01:01, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
::And as seen in Walky's post above this, the DK guide establishes the Fallen as an "Omniversal tyrant". That more or less means the Fallen is one of those characters who can travel between dimensions, and there's only one of him. Thus, we consider ROTF Fallen to be the same guy as Dreamwave comics Fallen, unless the movie says otherwise (and it obviously won't). --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 02:36, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
::Despite the brain-bending problems this creates with the other 12, yes. Are they all birthed by the AllSpark then? That's not what The Ultimate Guide says... (We'll figure it out. Expect the backpedaling, qualifications and clarifications to begin trickling in this fall.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:15, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
:::You know, the movie universe could have two individuals named the Fallen. I mean, it's not a real name, but rather a sort of title, right? Why couldn't the omniversal tyrant and some douchebag that came from the AllSpark live in the same universe? -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 04:26, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
:::'''Two''' dimension-hopping flaming ancient Primes who discarded their name in favor of being called "The Fallen" after betraying their 12 fellow Primes, the oldest of Transformers?
:::We already have the Covenant and the Thirteen. Don't make this ''more'' complicated. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:39, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
:::I personally think they should be seperated. I mean, he's been trapped in that relic, or whatever it exactly is, for a really long time. How could he of shown up in the IDW series? And, the other 12 sacrificed themselves, so, how could they exist either? -[[User:VakamaMetruNui|VakamaMetruNui]] 09:29, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
::::(The Dreamwave series, not the IDW series.) That's really easy to explain. The DW Fallen was also trapped in a dimension, same as the Movie one. He was able to break free of it due to a space bridge accident, and was apparently banished back to it by Primus. (He would have returned if DW hadn't gone bankrupt, so he wasn't dead.) Who knows how time and space work in there. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:11, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::Unicron keeps showing up in new places yet always gets defeated in more or less the same way; why should his gothy wanna-be have it any better? Since his "real" origin was as a creation of Primus, perhaps the entire Movie AllSpark / Movie Original 13 was something the Fallen himself put together later--he tried his own hand at being a god, while actually not claiming credit for it but just inserting himself among the lineup, like Keyser Soze. Or maybe he used his woowoo omniversal magic to sense that some other god was about to create the AllSpark, and then he twisted the whole process to his own ends. Who knows. And if all that sounds like a deus-ex-machina, remember that that is LITERALLY what he is. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 10:24, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
[[Image:Defianceissue4-creation.jpg|right|thumb|100px|What dimension did this happen in? The movie-verse? Not necessarily.]]
::::::I think splitting the page of a known dimension-hopper goes against common sense. Without a really good reason, of course. I don't think there is a good reason yet. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 10:47, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
:::::::At BotCon 2009, Hasbro copy-writer Forest Lee stated once again (at the Collectors' Club panel) that the Original 13 are all multiversal singularities. Apparently the upcoming movie hasn't changed his mind! So let's hold on to our current setup for the time being. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:11, 2 June 2009 (EDT)
::::::::He didn't state this before, IIRC he stated that they were ''probably'' Multiversal singularities before.
::::::::Do you or anyone (Steve) have an exact working on his statement this weekend? It's worth citing it on the 13 page. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:52, 2 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::I don't, no. And Steve-o wasn't there this weekend, so we are without his meticulous information-gathering. He did specifically say that the original 13 were multiversal singularities, though. It was in response to someone asking if Shattered Glass The Fallen would be icy. Forest said that as one of the 13, The Fallen doesn't have any multiverse counterparts. There's just one of him, the same as Vector Prime and the others. (Trent noted that he liked to believe that if the Fallen were to ever wander into the Shattered universe, his flames would turn to ice, much to his confusion.)--[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:53, 2 June 2009 (EDT)
Is there evidence that supports ROTF Fallen is the same as the character in The War Within?--[[User:TOM|TOM]] 13:20, 29 August 2010 (EDT)
:Evidence in the form of fictional stories? No. Apparently not. It is all shadow evidence as far as I can tell. Word of mouth at conventions and [[Hasbro Q&A/July 2009: Answers|a Hasbro Q&A]]. Should the wiki hang its hat on such shadow evidence? Or would the "multiversal singularity" thing be better put in the "notes" section until it shows up in fiction? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 13:53, 29 August 2010 (EDT)
::If this Wiki wants to wait on merging Alpha Trions I suggest your side doesn't split the G1, UT, ROTF and Prime versions of Prima, Megatronus, Liege or Vector. And it wouldn't call it shadow evidence considering Megatronus explicitly described his brothers as able to traverse dimensions, or Vector and Nexus being the sole versions of those characters flying about the timelines. "[[Reunification: Part 5|All Cybertrons are yours.]]" [[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] 14:15, 29 August 2010 (EDT)

== Movie altmode ==

FYI: If we get Hasbro photography depicting a toy with an altmode (we have!) and the paragraph in question is describing that toy, then ''the presence of said altmode is officially confirmed''. I don't know under what logic you can say otherwise.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 20:10, 22 May 2009 (EDT)
:Remember Scorponok's robot mode? I believe the debate is whether or not The Fallen's vehicle mode was something invented for the toyline. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 20:48, 22 May 2009 (EDT)
::Except the altmode description was removed from the toy section. The toy has an altmode. Plain as day. Thus the section describing that toy ought to mention said altmode.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 21:07, 22 May 2009 (EDT)
:::Ah, right then. Well... most of what I said can be salvaged, assuming this argument comes up outside the toy section. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 21:14, 22 May 2009 (EDT)

== Decepticon symbol ==

I see there is a Decepticon symbol on The Fallen's page for a long while, is this something related to his toy(s)? Thanks. (I can't reach my Titanium Fallen now, so... ) --'''[[User:TX55|<span style= "color:#00FA9A">TX55</span>]]'''<small><SUP>''[[User talk:TX55|<span style= "color:#0000CD">TALK</span>]]''</SUP></small> 11:24, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
: His ROTF toy packaging consistently labels him a Decepticon. He helped Megatron START the Decepticon faction in the live-action continuity. And the Decepticon faction symbol is based on his face. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:35, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

:::So it is really due to the ROTF. Thanks. ;-D --'''[[User:TX55|<span style= "color:#00FA9A">TX55</span>]]'''<small><SUP>''[[User talk:TX55|<span style= "color:#0000CD">TALK</span>]]''</SUP></small> 12:55, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

::What they said.
::I notice the Beast-machines Dinobots symbol links to the Dinobots disambig page-- was it used tor the Wal-Mart Dinobots as well? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 11:56, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

==Mainpic==
When the Wikia site comes up on Google, it also has a secondary link, which is their version of this page. Our secondary link is [[Transformers Animated (cartoon)|''Animated'']], which is unfortunately now a bit less relevant than theirs. (Notably, they've even rebranded their site to have a Movie look.) Happily, our [[The Fallen]] is much better than theirs because we've expanded the DW section, and they still haven't written ANYTHING about the prequel comics. Plus, y'know, there's [[:Image:WikiaAdInsert_TheFallen.jpg|the stuff that made us leave in the first place]]. But in the interests of sealing the relevancy deal, I suggest we change the mainpic to be The Fallen's ROTF body. That way even at a GLANCE a viewer can see which one is more up-to-date. What do you all think? - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 16:23, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
:I support this. We've got good promo renders of it. Let's do it.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 16:29, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
:Sounds good to me, I say go for it. Maybe change it back when the movie buzz fades down, but for now, yeah, totally. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 16:44, 4 June 2009 (EDT)
::Heh, so they merged the articles back. TX55 was an editor here. Doesn't he notice the borked layout of the images? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 17:00, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

===New main pic===
[[Image:ROTF The Fallen promotional 1.jpg|thumb|right|250px|You dare photograph me?! I am a a Prime!]]
Swap the current one for a promotional shot from [[Josh Nizzi]]'s website? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 13:58, 21 July 2009 (EDT)
:Naw, I prefer the one we have now. Flashier. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 14:12, 21 July 2009 (EDT)

==Grargh fiction==
Do we really need to separate out his various DK Ultimate Guide and Titanium information into their own little sections. Can't we throw those into the beginning of the Dreamwave continuity section and cite them appropriately? This page is now a real friggin' chore to read and understand. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:58, 6 June 2009 (EDT)
:Yeah, it sorta feels like it's... out of order. Cause, it is. Fictionally. I mean, I grok what Jackpot has done - he's put it in publication order, which I know is an approach that he's generall favoured in the past, but to me, it just doesn't "read" right. (Also, I am totally about to ruin the "he is on fire" joke. Watch me go!) - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 20:05, 6 June 2009 (EDT)
::I feel a little weird about combining them like that, but I don't full-on object. I don't think there's ever been precedent for putting toy-bio info into a comic-series summary, but in this case there was clearly intent behind the bio to make it mesh, and there are no variant ''War Within'' "continuities." All I can do is note that it's unorthodox and move along.
::Oh, and Walky, thanks for restoring the continuity-family headers. My theory is that since our default organizational model is to separate our articles based on continuity family, whenever we break that "rule," we should call it out.
::- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 16:49, 7 June 2009 (EDT)

==Really not buying the 'multiversal singularity' thing here==
Recently, I saw the new movie and....... I don't see how it could possibly be the same character as in Dreamwave's comics.
Not only is his entire backstory different, but his motives also seem different and the film also makes mention that The Fallen was a member of 8 original leaders (if I remember correctly), as opposed to 13.
Not to mention his radically different appearance (the other 'multiversal singularities' at least all looked alike) and abilities.

Unless the writers find a way of explaining how this could be possible, I don't see how it makes any form of sense.
:The fact it's 8 and not 13 is the first sign that the writers ''intend'' to explain it. They're backpedaling away from making it "The 13" because it creates ''way'' to many problems.
:We all basically agree that it makes not sense now, but this ('''very''' last-minute) change strongly indicates that it ''will'' make sense, and that Hasbro's story-gurus has finally figured out how they intend to make it fit. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:33, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
::I seriously doubt that Hasbro's story-gurus had any imput whatsoever on the contents of the movie itself. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 20:35, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
:::Yes, I think that rather than being The 'Multiversal Singularity' Fallen, The (ROTF) Fallen is just a 'fallen' Prime who is subsequently and coincidentally called "The Fallen". He happens to have the same name, like Prowl, Prowl, Prowl, Prowl and Prowl.[[Special:Contributions/218.214.49.189|218.214.49.189]] 21:02, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
::::That's nice, but Hasbro's packaging bio writer is saying that's not the case. Thus we have to go with what he says. --[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 21:09, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
So... Doesn't this mean that since he died in the movie, he has died in all universes forever, since he is a "multiversal singularity"?[[Special:Contributions/76.251.230.101|76.251.230.101]] 19:59, 3 August 2009 (EDT)
:When a multiversal singularity "dies" in one universe, he'll reappear in another universe --[[Special:Contributions/72.64.107.124|72.64.107.124]] 20:02, 3 August 2009 (EDT)
::I've seen that idea expressed on the Wiki before, but I've never seen a source for it. Basically... says who? In fact, most of what we "know" about multiversal singularities comes not from the fiction itself, but from creator comments. I don't agree with putting [[authorial intent]] on that high a pedestal, especially when its results are flat-out nonsensical. I think that at best, author-intent should get a Note, not define central aspects of how we describe characters. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 20:16, 3 August 2009 (EDT)
:::Hear hear! Besides, saying that a character is a multiuniversal singularity only lasts until someone else says he's not. Then we get a weird state of 'he's mostly a multiuniversal singularity, except where he isn't' situation. I think this sort of notion warrants about as much consideration as a Madman DVD book saying that Cyclonus categorically was Skywarp - we note it, then we go on with the rest of our lives. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 20:37, 3 August 2009 (EDT)
::::There's at least some indication that Mowry and Furman are going to attempt to reconcile the multiversal singularity thing, or at least hang a lampshade on it and run with it, in [[Transformers: Tales of the Fallen|Tales of the Fallen]]. We may get our answer soon.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 21:09, 3 August 2009 (EDT)
:::::''saying that a character is a multiuniversal singularity only lasts until someone else says he's not''
:::::Bingo. No matter how much people might like Forrest's ideas, it's just as much "authorial intent" whenever anybody else at Hasbro or IDW or Bay's workshop says something that contradicts him. We know he's multiversal, or "omniversal," whatever, because one of the movie guidebooks says so. I try not to think too hard about the "13-whoops-7-Primes" clusterfuck. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 21:48, 3 August 2009 (EDT)
:::I think the idea of Multiversal Singularities dieing in one universe and appearing in another has 2 sources: 1) Unicron - He's a multiversal singularity and this is demonstrably how he works, and 2) Vector Prime - After his death in the UT he's seen again in the final credits battling Galvatron again. Granted it's supposition, but I think that's the basis for the idea.--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.72.27|76.28.72.27]] 21:22, 3 August 2009 (EDT)
::::Unicron's many deaths constitute one of the reasons why the multiversal-singularity idea is generally thought to be nonsensical. The idea that he "respawns" every time he's destroyed is a rationalization somebody here came up with; it's never been shown to ''happen'' in the fiction. And Vector Prime's case barely applies; he wasn't destroyed the way Unicron or The Fallen were; he just permanently phased outside of normal time because he overexerted his temporal powers. It was presumably in this non-time limbo that he battled Galvatron again, and where he will be forever. Ultimately, I think Rosicrucian's right: We should wait until "Tales of the Fallen" comes out before we make any hard-and-fast calls on the subject. But I've [[Talk:Unicron#"Respawning"?|long thought]] that we should be more rigorous about letting the fiction alone define "multiversal singularity" instead of the authors, and I'll be more than happy if future information radically changes what we think it means. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 22:43, 3 August 2009 (EDT)
:::::The bio for TRU-excl. Universe Unicron says he travels through multiple dimensions and that whenever he dies he comes back to life. I don't think it says he has to be reobrn in a different dimension than the one he just died in, but honestly, once they've officialized and published the "multidimensionality and immortality" aspect, precisely where he is at ANY given moment in any life doesn't matter. But that's just Unicron--there's nothing as cut-and-dried in published form for the rest of them, I don't think. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 23:08, 3 August 2009 (EDT)
::::::Ah, that's interesting. Let's [http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3254/2856639219_b4fb44b44e.jpg?v=0 take a look]... Hm, it actually sounds more like Vector Prime's existence than the hoppity-hop-from-universe-to-universe model that's been the wiki party line. Unicron "floats through the non-space between dimensions, reaching out with his sensors to find the universe with the most energy. Those dimensions he finds suitable, he consumes." Also, "He has been defeated or destroyed countless times, yet he always returns [...] for [...] He is evil incarnate, and as long as there is evil, there is Unicron." It sounds like, whereas Vector Prime is stuck outside of time and can only send messages (or swords) into the timestream, Unicron can actually manifest himself in a very real and devastating way. But they share some essential transcendent nature, which to me is a bit more sensical than the more linear model. I read it to mean that basically he can keep coming back because he's always got one foot outside of normal space-time, and destroying a specific incarnation will never be enough. It's not a full "death." Plus he's got that strange relation to the concept of evil, which is backed up in the ''Armada'' cartoon when only Galvatron's death and the resulting end of the war could destroy him. As you say, I don't know how this would apply to The Fallen or others, but one thing at a time... - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 00:06, 4 August 2009 (EDT)
:::::::It's not particularly relevant, but I just want to point out that Vector Prime ''did'' actually die, in the sense that his linear lifespan came to an end point. He continues to exist because ''prior'' to his death, he spent most of his existence outside of the timestream, and since time has no meaning there, he will ''always'' be there, watching and guiding. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 07:55, 4 August 2009 (EDT)

== Change of appearance ==

From TF; The Movie Universe
{{quote|The Fallen butchered and betrayed his brother Primes, disowning his given name in favor of one befitting his new, terrifying appearance.|<u>[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen: The Movie Universe]]</u> p86|"The Fallen"}}
Late intot he game, we have the idea that The Fallen may have changed his appearance. (And since his appearance is really no different than the other Primes... it begs the question what the hell this is talking about.)

Oh, and Walky was wondering abotu the curiously-regular panes of transparent plastic on The Fallen toy's shoulders... accordign to the guidebook, he has "Energon Distribution arcs" in his shoulders-- I think they're actually supposed to represent some sort of energy blade. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:44, 21 June 2009 (EDT)

== Unreliable narrator ==

So I saw the ROTF film. It really doesn't clash with the Multiversal Singularity thing too bad... it's Defiance that's the real problem. And I'm beginning to think that Definace just had a ''serious'' case of "unreliable narrator."

Let's assume (for a moment) that the Fallen ''was'' lying about parts of his backstory to Megatron. He certainly didn't mention Primus or Unicron (so we know he left stuff out) and we know he was snowing Megatron about making him a Prime (something you apparently have to be born to in the Movieverse.) He's ALREADY demonstrably lying, so lets throw out everything he said about his own origins, and assume he's actually the same dimension-hopping spanish-speaking nutjob we know and love-- what would the universe 'look' like?

Logically, The Fallen {{redact|''traveled'' to this universe and integrated himself with it-- somehow convincing the six Founding Primes of the universe that he was one of them. He then secretly endeavored to murder them all, destroy the Earth and seize ultimate power for himself using the sun harvester.}}

Of course, if this was '''actually''' what happened, and The Fallen is lying... you'd expect there to be some ''indicator['' of this in the IDW comics.

[[Image:Ros03 cuberitual.png|thumb|250px]]
Oh hey, look at that! It's the ancient illustration Starscream was trying to replicate in "Reign of Starscream"! The ''only'' piece of evidence from the era of the original Primes that ''doesn't'' come from our Unreliable Narrator. And what does it show?
{{redact|'''Six''' Primes surrounding the AllSpark cube as it is renewed by the Sun Harvester. '''Not''' seven.}} -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:55, 24 June 2009 (EDT)
:As much as I really want to make this all work, I don't know if I want to go the Unreliable Narrator route. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:18, 25 June 2009 (EDT)
::Neither do I... but if IDW chooses to quietly change the 13 primes to the 7 in their Movie Spotlight books... at ''that'' point the Fallen's retelling of history becomes much more actively wrong, and this bit from Reign of Starscream fits quite nicely.
::I figured it was worth highlighting as a possibility. It wouldn't be appropriate to present it as "fact" until IDW gets a crack at it. (It seems almost inevitable that there are Retcons Comings.) But i was pleased to discover that there's at least one ''fairly'' clean way here to make things more-or-less fit, and it ties into some pre-established continuity arond Starscream's plan with the [[Replica AllSpark]], which is a definite plus in terms of making the change less jarring. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:27, 25 June 2009 (EDT)
:::Your way probably works better than my "the other 6 Primes were busy." But still, that's fanon until Forest Lee gets a crack at it. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:31, 25 June 2009 (EDT)
:::...That leaves me a little worried that we're putting our hopes on IDW. Especially since they caused quite a few of the problems. And lets not even get into their record of continuity consistency in okaying [[The Transformers: All Hail Megatron|All Hail Megatron]]. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 00:34, 25 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::But '''nothing''' the movies is 100% consistent with one another. Did you notice Leo mentioned the big fight from the 2007 movie took place in '''L.A.'''? And the IDW comics aren't in continuity with the ''first'' movie in a strict sense either-- Reign of starscream dedicated a page to re-doing the "gathering of the 'cons" from the dfirst movie ''just'' so they could assert "no, he's called BRAWL damnit." Or the helicopter being shot down over <strike>Afganistan</strike> America.
:::::Frankly, I think think the wiki would be best off is we weaned ourselves of this tendency to present the IDW comics as somehow "the primary continuity." They're definitely bound up tightly with the movies... but they ''aren't'' in perfect continuity with them-- and it's not just oddities, it's outright deliberate contradiction, like the Brawl thing. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:57, 25 June 2009 (EDT)
::::::Until I get an official reasoning to change continuity flow of various fiction, I'd rather leave the articles as they are. Brawl thing - who cares, really? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:36, 25 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::::By which you mean "structured differently than every other fiction section on the wiki." ;)
:::::::(I'm not really pushing for the restructure either. Just talking in general terms.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:54, 25 June 2009 (EDT)
::::::::I'm set in my ways, dagnabbit. Yeah, the movie kind of started the movement of supporting fiction such as comic books and novels more or less directly being in continuity with the primary fiction, something we saw later in Animated. As opposed to the traditional TF method of having comics and cartoons and books all going in completely different directions. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:26, 25 June 2009 (EDT)

::::You've got it backwards. The Mowry-penned stuff has some of the best internal consistency of the entire continuity.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 00:37, 25 June 2009 (EDT)
:::::Right, Mowry was foreshadowing the RotF plot in the second issue of Reign of Starscream, before ''anything'' had leaked. And he seems to have a pretty clear idea where almost ''every'' character "was" before and after the war, how they're related to one another, etc. He also did a ''lot'' of ground work to make the game drones fit right. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:57, 25 June 2009 (EDT)

== Voyager toy ==

The Voyager toy has slidable gauntlets, shinguards, and some kind of firey thing under the shinguards, but none of these are called out in the instructions, or seem to serve any point in either mode. Should this be mentioned in the article, and if not, does anyone know what the deal with them is?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 20:50, 4 July 2009 (EDT)

== "saturn"? ==

Especially because the novel specifically says it's not Saturn, can we get rid of this? Unless it was revealed in an interview or on a toy bio or something, all the movie shows is that it's on the moon of a ringed planet - without specifically identifying it.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 19:22, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
:I think it has to be Saturn unless it is a plot hole. Megatron just flies there in about a day or so. It has to be in the solar system, I think. Megatron was never shown to have a personal space bridge like Jetfire. Can Megatron travel faster-than-light? Possibly, but the space bridge seems to be this universe's faster-than-light technology. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 20:57, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
::I recall seeing something about how Megatron can travel interstellar distances, but that he's supposed to be one of the few Transformers who can. Additionally, we see the Decepticons travel to Earth in transition form, implying that they are coming from somewhere in the solar system. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 20:59, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
:::Yes, Megatron can travel interstellar distances, but in a day or two? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 21:02, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
::::And return with Starscream and Grindor? And have The Fallen and a buttload of new Hatchlings arrive not soon after? They can't be lightyears away. That'd basically be Yet Another Plothole. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:09, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
:::::According to the Ultimate Guide, The Fallen actually can do something like a space bridge, so wouldn't it be possible for the Fallen to have brought them to the final battle? Unless the Fallen can only do personal transport.
:::::For Grindor, though, do we know he was actually on the Nemesis?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 22:47, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
::::::I thought someone might suggest that about The Fallen, so I didn't argue that point. I think that if he has the ability to space bridge armies across interstellar distances I would wonder why he would need the Nemesis at all. Starscream also made it to the Nemesis but he had a little longer, he could have hailed a space taxi or something. I think the movie strongly implies the Decepticons traveled by protoform from a relatively short distance and landed on the aircraft carriers. Even The Fallen. He seems to have traveled by protoform. Maybe space bridging long distances uses too much energy? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 23:13, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
:::::::"Saturn" appears to have a nebula in the background in the movie.
:::::::Which means that unless you can provide a cite for it being Saturn, it's not Saturn. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:51, 13 July 2009 (EDT)

==Power of a Prime?==
Why is that important? --[[User:Boba Fett|Boba Fett]] 20:15, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
:Why is pointing out the differences between the film itself and its adaptations important? Is that what you're asking? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 20:19, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
:Why IS information about a Transformer in a Transfomers wiki important, I wonder? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 20:50, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
:The novel and comics are similar enough to the movie that they don't merit their own sections on the page, so the few significant differences that DO crop up need to go SOMEWHERE. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 20:53, 12 July 2009 (EDT)

==Main Pic==

Since the standard practice to to have the main image use the body the character first appeared in, rather than their most recent or more well known, shouldn't the main pic here be his Dreamwave body? [[User:Eire]] 23.45 18 Aug 09 (UTC)
:In this case it was changed so that movie visitors wouldn't reach the page and go "who the hell is this guy?" as well as to visually distinguish our article from Wikia's.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 19:25, 18 August 2009 (EDT)

==Leader Class==

I found a clip on Youtube about a Leader class The Fallen toy. It's extremely close to the CGI version in design and look and it comes with a staff. I think it's a fanmade one, but it's definitely worth noticing. I have proof. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q142a9Fl9_c]--[[User:Cydra|Cydra]] 09:49, 10 October 2009 (EDT)
: Yeah, that's a custom by FrenzyRumble. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 09:51, 10 October 2009 (EDT)

== Image:Vectorprimeut.jpg ==

OK, who put that there? The Fallen isn't even on it. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:07, 20 October 2009 (EDT)
: Read the caption and come back to me. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 12:09, 20 October 2009 (EDT)
::I just wasted two seconds on reading a caption which I have already memorized, and another ten on checking the image again. The Fallen is NOT on the image. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:19, 20 October 2009 (EDT)
:::...yes he is. See the guy behind Vector Prime? His silhouette matches The Fallen's. Pay special attention to the little spikey hangy-things on his crotch, plus the shape of his head. And don't talk to ME about wasting time. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 12:21, 20 October 2009 (EDT)
::::My bad. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:26, 20 October 2009 (EDT)

== Unable to edit ==
I noticed that I am unable to edit The Fallen page why is that. Also I thing the sarcophagus should have its own link and that it should be edited to make it more appropiate. --[[User:Naruotfox94|Narutofox94]] 10:04, 14 November 2009

== Lawson Exclusive EZ Fallen??? ==

Just noticed the pic of the 'Lawson exclusive' EZ figure.

Apparently the version of EZ Fallen released in the 2-pack with Soundwave was actually the standard US version, and the Takara-Tomy picture was incorrect. Unless anyone has an official source (in-hand pictures, on-line sales listings etc) that says the Japanese version of the Legends figure is any different from the US colours, I'd recommend deleting this photo. [[Special:Contributions/213.123.203.109|213.123.203.109]] 09:03, 1 December 2009 (EST)
:... that doesn't make any sense. If we don't have any in-hand photos, how do we know it's the SAME as the US release? --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 10:10, 1 December 2009 (EST)
::So what you're saying is that we have this exclusive Legends Fallen, now released in Japan. You'd think it might show up ''somewhere''? But there's not a squeak of it on YouTube, on eBay, or for that matter ANY Transformers retailer or website you can care to name (trust me, I've checked). I realise it's supposedly an exclusive, but I can't think of another occasion in all my years of collecting when a figure's been commercially released and yet NO-ONE has seen it. As I say, I think it's just a bad photograph.

::Also, note that the two supposed 'exclusives' in this Lawson offer were Mudflap and The Fallen... which haven't actually been released in Japan as part of the main EZ line (nor have they been announced as forthcoming). So it would make sense that these are the standard US versions, which were Lawson store exclusives in Japan. Just like how ROTF Deluxes Dead End, Swerve and Stalker Scorponok were on general sale in the US but store exclusives in Japan.

::I seem to recall pictures of Takara Deluxe Ravage and Voyager Mixmaster with different paint apps too (extra purple on Ravage and a different coloured head on Mixmaster) - yet both releases ended up the same as their US counterparts. Early photos of the Takara combiner Devastator (shown in Hyber Hobby and Dengeki Hobby) has the US grey face that was later changed to red in Japan. We now know that the Deluxe red Rampage has a movie-accurate silver shovel, not the red one we saw in the early pictures. My point here is that promotional photos are notoriously unreliable.

::I realise I'm on shaky ground here - It's very difficult to prove something ''doesn't'' exist. But I think at the very least the point should be made on the page that this so-called redeco has never - to anyone's knowledge - been sighted outside of a low-res photo on the Takara website. And possibly never will.[[Special:Contributions/91.104.167.124|91.104.167.124]] 13:55, 7 December 2009 (EST)
:::This strikes me as a question that would easily be resolved if we had actual contact with the Japanese fanbase.... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:01, 7 December 2009 (EST)
::::OK, after a bit of research, I've discovered that the US and Japanese versions of these legends are IDENTICAL. There are pictures on TFW2005 (I think you need to be a member to sign into the forums) [http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-toy-discussion/281376-rotf-takara-v-hasbro-comparisons.html] So this page ''does'' need to be changed, as does Mudflap's.[[Special:Contributions/91.104.167.124|91.104.167.124]] 17:20, 7 December 2009 (EST)

== Page Quote ==

To be fair... whether or not it should be changed to LesterX's idea, the current quote does suck. It says pretty much zero about the Fallen's personality or motivation or purpose or anything. All it says is that he's from some past time period, which is true of every 13 member. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:21, 7 January 2010 (EST)
:I never was crazy about it but it does do a good job of summing up a pretty major aspect of the character. I'm gonna go through all his comic appearances and have a look for a better one (can't think of one from the movie) [[User:Eire]] 00.00 Jan 08 2009 (UTC)
::Change the top quote all you want, but "kali ma" is so not going away for another damn "Give me your face" joke. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:05, 7 January 2010 (EST)
:::No argument from me on ''that'' regard. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:14, 7 January 2010 (EST)

==Separate==
I recommend that this page be split into two different pages, as the backgrounds differ. (I would type in a label, but the thing won't let me) [[User:Cold Rod|Cold Rod]] 16:23, 17 May 2010 (EDT)
: I recommend you learn what [[multiversal singularity]] means. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:38, 17 May 2010 (EDT)
::Of which the movie version is not. [[Special:Contributions/74.78.77.122|74.78.77.122]] 12:41, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
::::I would like to laugh at this, because do you see that big pile of text on [[multiversal singularity]]? That was taken from a Hasbro response ABOUT SPECIFICALLY MOVIE THE FALLEN. The original question was "If The Fallen is a multiversal singularity, how can we reconcile these various different movie-originated versions of him, like in the novelization and childrens storybooks?" And then we got that answer. So to say that the answer does not pertain to movie The Fallen betrays a monumental ignorance of the subject at hand. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:11, 27 May 2010 (EDT)
:::Prove it. According to Hasbro multiversal singularities can have different backgrounds in different universes and still be the SAME character. Confusing, but true. [[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:43, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
::::So they look exactly the same then? they have the same background? [[Special:Contributions/74.78.77.122|74.78.77.122]] 12:56, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
:::::Somebody sign this guy up for a course in logic. Or at least ENGLISH. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:58, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
::::::Seriously, read the [[multiversal singularity]] page. Specifically "multiversal dynamics". - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 13:00, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
:::::::You said '''can''', not '''do'''. There's a difference. '''Can''' means possibly. '''Do''' means certainly. It doesn't prove their one and the same. The one bathed in fire isn't a Decepticon. In addition, Teletraan 1 (the other wiki) split theirs. [[Special:Contributions/74.78.77.122|74.78.77.122]] 13:05, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
::::::::Then go annoy them and leave us alone. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 13:08, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::Besides, the other wiki is pretty much abandoned by this community. They're now almost independent. Not only that, but I'm pretty sure Hasbro said they were the same character. --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 13:09, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::Yes, can. The Fallen has different backgrounds in different universes, but is still a singularity. Other singularities have the same background in different universes. Thus, singularities CAN have different backgrounds. Also, what Teletraan 1 does is not an argument that will go over well here. [[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 13:10, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::To cut a long story short, we're treating them as the same because Hasbro writer [[Forest Lee]], who's basically responsible for all the multiversal singularity stuff, ''says they are'', and has offered an explanation for how that works. And yes, kindly refrain from holding up ''anything'' Teletraan-1 does as a basis for how we should do things. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 13:22, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::::I thank the other wiki a billion times for separating their Fallen pages, because Google sure likes our page way better now! (and that was fairly immediate) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:07, 27 May 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::::Google still prefers Wikia if you add "Transformers" to your search terms for "The Fallen", at least from what I can tell. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:18, 27 May 2010 (EDT)

== Multiversal Clean Up ==

Some people's stubborn refusals to understand his nature aside, I think the article as written right now might contain a few too many "artifacts" from when we were still rather unsure of the Fallen's Multiversal Singularity status and how it worked. The "Origin" section for instance seems to exist entirely to present his differing origins as being a conflict while not mentioning at all that Hasbro's explanation on how singularities work explains any conflict away.

I think the page could use a slight "refresh" (the Origin section especially) to really make it clearer that all the differing apperences, actions, and even origins are all part and parcel of how a mulitversal singularity works and not mistakes or continuity conflicts.

Didn't want to try to touch/alter such a potentially controversial article without feeling people out on the idea first though. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 14:43, 18 May 2010 (EDT)

:Anyone have any real feelings on this one way or another? If no, I may attempt a clean up as discribed above in the near future. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 13:03, 27 May 2010 (EDT)
::I'm inclined that it gets a "refresh", given the "stubborn refusals to under his nature". MUL-TI-VERSE, how hard is it to understand? Oy. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 14:39, 27 May 2010 (EDT)
:::What is this 'multiverse' of which you speak? Is that a breakfast cereal?--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 14:44, 27 May 2010 (EDT)
::::A wonderful porridge filled with all the vitamins and minerals (some necessary, some superfluous, and some bad for the waistline) for growing protoforms, from the same company that produces Garbage O's! :B --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 14:49, 27 May 2010 (EDT)

==Megatronous Prime==
Where the hell did the person who put The Fallen's real name as Megatronous Prime? Which comic or whatever included his real name did that person learn that?
:I believe it was mentioned in the [[Transformers: Exodus|Exodus novel]]. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:32, 30 June 2010 (EDT)
::I wonder if that's a reference to the Covenant of Primus... "I am alpha and omega, the beginning and the end. I am that which is, which was, and is yet to come...and you will know my name is Megatron when I lay my vengeance upon you!" Sounds like it could be about the Fallen to me. If that's the case, other Megatrons may have named themselves after him to show how hardcore they are. -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 16:58, 30 June 2010 (EDT)

===Appearance===
Dark, Decepticon symbol face, did he look like Soundblaster? Considering that [[Logos Prime|Soundblaster]] might or might not be one of the 13, feels like an odd coincidence. I guess we'll have to wait to find out if that actually means anything. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 11:43, 4 September 2010 (EDT)
:No. He looked like this squat, ornately-carved boxy monstrosity whose whole body vaguely looked like a 'Con symbol, the face much moreso, with a big right-arm cannon. Hasbro said in a previous Q&A answer that we should not assume Logos Prime is one of the 13. I would not be surprised if that character never matters again. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 18:09, 4 September 2010 (EDT)
::Considering Logos Prime can alter his appearance at will, and that Soundblaster is only one of those forms, Logos Prime can basically be any of the other 13 that he wants. Hell, maybe he's the Fallen. </fanon> --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 20:36, 4 September 2010 (EDT)
:::I put up this section hoping for it to turn out that way. I think I should maybe discuss this on a messageboard. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 20:52, 4 September 2010 (EDT)
::::Was it [http://t4ak.roblox.com/daaf9f4eb9b33f115661eb4a7c849007 this?] --[[User:King Starscream|King Starscream]] 15:17, 10 April 2012 (EDT)

==Megatronus vs Megatronus Prime==
When Hasbro did their Thirteen concept art presentation at BotCon, pre-The Fallen was just "Megatronus" rather than "Megatronus Prime". I assume this was intentional, as the only Thirteener to otherwise have "Prime" as part of his name in the line-up was Vector Prime. I don't know how this factoid should be incorporated, though. Just in Notes? --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 11:07, 12 July 2010 (EDT)

== Life support chair ==

Where did this info come from? It wasn't clarified in the movie.--[[Special:Contributions/96.54.128.212|96.54.128.212]] 16:49, 23 December 2010 (EST)

== A little request ==

Can we have some notes to compare and contrast Fallen's tie-in IDW comics, game, and promo-render forms with the one presented in the final movie? Or at least, can someone explain to me here on this talk page? I know they're different...but I just can't put my finger on how (probably because of the drought of good full body screencaps of him in ROTF) and it's kind of bugged me for a while now. - [[User:Tyrannolodon|Tyrannolodon]] 11:09, 27 May 2011 (EDT)

== Disciples vs. Apostles ==

''"If the first Transformers were Cybertron's '''disciples''', then The Fallen is its Judas."'' I changed this to "apostles" a short time ago, and my edit was undone with this message as accompaniment: ''"The reference is to''' Jesus' twelve disciples'''. Not all of them became apostles, and not all apostles had been disciples."'' I believe there is a confusion here between "apostle" ("one who is sent forth") and "disciple" (student). The apostles were Jesus' twelve chosen: Peter, Andrew, James the Greater, John, Phillip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James the Lesser, Thaddeus, Simon, and Judas (Judas was later replaced by Matthias, and the title was also granted to Paul and Barnabas). The disciples were simply the followers of Jesus: the first Christians. Since this page refers to the Twelve, the reference should say "apostle." And if anyone wants a source for all this (other than my Catholic upbringing), I'll list the Bible, CatholicAnswers, and my religion teacher (a Dominican sister who DEFINITELY knows what she is talking about). Sorry for the religion lesson, but I'm 99.9% sure that "apostle" is the right word here.
:-[[User:Queso|¡Usa El Queso!]] - 2:30 PM, 8 June 2011 A.D.
::You must not have listened carefully. Judas Iscariot was a disciple of Jesus, but he was never an apostle. Because he was not sent forth to teach after Jesus death and resurrection. At least that's the way it was explained in the Baptist Churches I grew up in.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 14:36, 8 June 2011 (EDT)
:::The only part of Judas sent forth was his intestines. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:44, 8 June 2011 (EDT)
:Does that really apply anymore anyway? There is now the [[Liege Maximo|Liege Maximo]] so there would be two Judases. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 14:51, 8 June 2011 (EDT)
::I'm still wondering if there is any actual evidence (the two being specifically mentioned as being somewhere at the same time for instance) that The Fallen isn't the Liege Maximo. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 14:52, 8 June 2011 (EDT)
:::Uh, the relevant panels at the last two BotCons? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 15:52, 8 June 2011 (EDT)
::::What exactly was said at the panels, what I've heard didn't sound definitive. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:58, 8 June 2011 (EDT)
:::::What was said is "This is The Liege Maximo. He's one of the 13. Here is Megatronus Prime, another member of the 13. Later, Megatronus Prime becomes this guy, The Fallen." Each of those three entities had their own art. Liege Maximo looked drastically different from Megatronus/Fallen. And... I'm pretty sure The Fallen isn't going to be two different members of the 13. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 18:27, 8 June 2011 (EDT)
::::::Okay, that is clear. Given that it was stated that they are separate, my question is invalidated. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 21:19, 8 June 2011 (EDT)
I beg to differ, [[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]]: he was sent forth '''before''' Jesus' death. [http://www.biblestudytools.com/rsv/luke/passage.aspx?q=luke+9:1-6 Luke 9:1-6] gives one account of this. Judas was one of the Twelve, AKA the apostles. Also, hee hee... intestines.
:-[[User:Queso|¡Usa El Queso!]] 3:01 PM, 8 June 2011 A.D.
::I'm not arguing that he wasn't sent forth before Jesus's death, I'm arguing that "the apostles" are those sent forth AFTER Jesus's death. Paul was an apostle, never a disciple. Judas was a disciple, never an apostle (by the definition I gave). Since Fallen = Judas, apostle is not a good term to use here. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 15:04, 8 June 2011 (EDT)
:::Perhaps [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/apostle the dictionary definition] can settle this? Note the list of the Twelve.
::::-[[User:Queso|¡Usa El Queso!]] 15:59, 8 June 2011 (EDT) 3:59 PM, 8 June 2011 A.D.
:::::I really think this is a Catholic vs Protestant thing. To a Protestant hearing the word Apostle applied before Jesus's death seems weird. Do a google search for "12 Disciples" and look how many Protestant sources use that formulation. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 16:07, 8 June 2011 (EDT)
::::::Whereas to a Catholic, "12 Disciples" sounds just plain uneducated (no offense intended). So what shall be done here? (All definitions I see in dictionaries still list Judas among the apostles.) -[[User:Queso|¡Usa El Queso!]] 16:31, 8 June 2011 (EDT)

I'm gonna go out on a whim here and say we should have it compare the Thirteen to the Archangels and that The Fallen is their Lucifer. At least Judas was remorseful enough to kill himself. [[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] 17:02, 8 June 2011 (EDT)
:Lucifer was not an Archangel. He was a Seraph. In fact, the Archangels are the second-lowest in the nine choirs. -[[User:Queso|¡Usa El Queso!]] 18:23, 8 June 2011 (EDT)
::My point still stands: I had considered changing the comparison from Judas to Lucifer ages ago but opted not to out of respect for the lead ItsWalky wrote. [[User:Alientraveller|Alientraveller]] 18:35, 8 June 2011 (EDT)
::I don't think "Lucifer was not an Archangel" is something that's universally agreed upon, especially since a lot of that stuff is, well, apocryphal. Googling "Lucifer Archangel" sure brings up a lot of stuff about how Lucifer is an Archangel, for example. I think you need to start stating these things with less certainty. There's a lot of Christian mythology, and it all doesn't agree with itself. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 18:38, 8 June 2011 (EDT)
:::To be perfectly honest, I ''can't'' state these things with less certainty. Being Catholic, I am obligated to believe what the Church teaches. I'm actually quite surprised and fascinated to see some of these other views that I'd never heard of before. But, in Catholic teaching (which we just so happen to regard as objective reality, not just our opinion), Judas was an apostle and Lucifer was the highest of the angels and thus a Seraph. I do hope I don't sound rude or inconsiderate or <insert negative adjective here>, because I don't mean to be. I'm simply pointing out what I thought was an error (that being said, I preferred the Judas comparison to the Lucifer one; [[Unicron]] would make a better Satan parallel). -[[User:Queso|¡Usa El Queso!]] 20:11, 8 June 2011 (EDT)
::Sorry if this has already been resolved, but wikipedia describes the definition of "apostle" to include Judas, stating that he wasn't sent afterward, and that the title was extended past the Twelve. They were sent out in Mark 6:7-13, and Matthew 10:1-4 explicitly calls Judas one of the apostles. Like, it says "the names of the twelve apostles are" and then says "Judas". Luke 6:12-16 says this as well, and indicates that they worked alongside other disciples who were not apostles.
::As far as archangels/seraphs -- Lucifer is not given an explicit rank beyond being the "highest of angels". There are two main treatments of the angelic hierarchy -- one with simply "angels" and "archangels", and one with all nine ranks organized in three spheres, essentially splitting the other's "archangel" into eight separate rungs, the lowest of which retains the name "archangel". Both rankings place Lucifer, Gabriel, Michael, and Raphael at the top, regardless of what they actually name that rank. It's basically a difference in terms/detail, rather than intent.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] ([[User talk:KrytenKoro|talk]]) 13:28, 28 October 2014 (EDT)
:::To be fair, I guess saying "the thirteen are his disciples" isn't really "wrong", as the apostles ''were'' disciples.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] ([[User talk:KrytenKoro|talk]]) 13:29, 28 October 2014 (EDT)

==The Fallen's plan in movie continuity==
Now forgive me if this was explained in any of the more recent IDW stuff (I don't own any comics past the ROTF adaptation), but has the Fallen's initial plan with Megatron ever been explained beyond: '''1. Find star harvester, 2. Find Matrix, 3. ???, 4. Control power of the AllSpark'''? By the timeframe of ROTF, the plan is evidently to use energon from the harvester to revitalise the AllSpark-less Cybertron, but this clearly wasn't their original intention. Thanks, [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] 17:48, 15 August 2011 (EDT)

== Split? ==

I know that the Fallen is a multiuniversal singularity, but I honestly think the Movie incarnation of The Fallen should get a seperate page. I think the character's article is getting way too long and I think we should split that section. Like [[Optimus Prime (G1)]] gets a page for his appearances in the cartoon and Marvel Comics continuities, I believe that should happen here. We should split the section into an article titled <nowiki>[[The Fallen (Movie)]]</nowiki> or <nowiki>[[The Fallen (ROTF)]]</nowiki> or <nowiki>[[The Fallen/Live-action film continuity family]]</nowiki>.[[Special:Contributions/72.70.64.11|72.70.64.11]] 11:21, 8 November 2011 (EST)

:I know this has been discussed before. I, like you, believe it is possible for all Fallen's to actually be 1 Fallen, but I believe the film incarnation should get a seperate page anyway because this article is getting way too long.[[Special:Contributions/72.70.64.11|72.70.64.11]] 11:26, 8 November 2011 (EST)
::49 kb is not that particularly long. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 13:18, 8 November 2011 (EST)

== Exodus-Exiles ==

Should the two sections be merged to better represent the in-continuity chronological order?[[Special:Contributions/192.249.47.196|192.249.47.196]] 13:46, 1 December 2011 (EST)

== Capitalization concerning the Aligned continuity. ==

I don't have "Exodus" so readily available at the moment, but in "Exiles" the capitalization is "the Fallen", more used as an adjective than a name (likely as the "Fallen Prime"). I'm willing to do this, but I move for all mentions of "the Fallen" concerning the Aligned universe be written with the lower case "t", just as "Mini-Con" is "Minicon", or the whole "Brawl/Devastator" movie thing. Not all will be "the Fallen" (like in the movies that DOES have the capitalization) just information with the Aligned continuity family. --[[User:Karhukjnsi|Karhukjnsi]] 22:15, 31 January 2012 (EST)

== Title ==

Should this not be at Megatronus? It's his true name and the name more often used nowadays in Aligned stuff. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 10:11, 17 December 2015 (EST)
:While I like the idea of putting the page at his original personal name rather than his moniker, I think more people know of the character by the moniker than by the name. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 15:51, 17 December 2015 (EST)
:: The only time people regularly call him anything other than the Fallen is in Aligned stuff, so I'd say no. [[User:Grum|Grum]] ([[User talk:Grum|talk]]) 15:54, 17 December 2015 (EST)
:::Well, Aligned and IDW are the only stuff featuring him at this point (and are also two of the three-still running major continuities in the first place). Dreamwave material is now obscura and ROTF is a flash in the pan movie that nobody cares about anymore. The trend is towards using "Megatronus" over "the Fallen" now and that seems likely to continue in the future. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 16:07, 17 December 2015 (EST)
:Ehhhhn. The movie kind of has this article by the throat. It's why we decided to break our usual rule for the article-header picture, and I think it'd be odd to go with Megatronus. Right now, anyway.- [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 16:30, 17 December 2015 (EST)
::I still feel ROTF is old news now. It's been two movies since then, and all the general public remembers at best is "that random evil guy who got his face ripped off in that confusing movie". Is it really that big of an impact whether this article is at Megatronus or not for those people? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 10:23, 23 December 2015 (EST)

:::When you say IDW is featuring Megatronus/The Fallen in their stuff, are you referring to their RID tie-in comic, or has he made an appearance in IDWG1 that I haven't heard about? -[[User:Foffy the Sheep|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep|talk]]) 10:39, 23 December 2015 (EST)
::::He's been mentioned in IDW, and the Thirteen in general are becoming prominent parts of its mythology. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 16:29, 25 December 2015 (EST)
:There's also the notion that one of the whole points behind this guy is that, because he did something so terrible in the past, he's not supposed to have a real name anymore. So even if we know that he real name formerly was "Megatronus", he in his present life isn't supposed to be known by that name (or any name) anymore, much like how a few Optimus Primes were formerly "Orion Pax" in their earlier lives but not in their present lives. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 16:17, 25 December 2015 (EST)
::But that's not really the case in Aligned... [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 16:29, 25 December 2015 (EST)
::: It's the case in most other works of Aligned fiction except RID. [[User:Grum|Grum]] ([[User talk:Grum|talk]]) 16:48, 25 December 2015 (EST)
::::Exodus, Exiles, and the Covenant all made it clear that "Megatronus" was his name back ''before'' he fell, not after. The Prime cartoon even called in "The Fallen" in a present sense. Only the RID cartoon treats him with "Megatronus" as his present day name, and that's just one piece of fiction out of several. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 16:57, 25 December 2015 (EST)
:::::That may be true, but it's the ''only'' fiction featuring him right now. It's not like there's some other series calling him the Fallen at the same time. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep|talk]]) 20:37, 25 December 2015 (EST)
::::::Unless he somehow comes back from the dead to return in season 2, RID isn't currently featuring Megatronus anymore after his only appearing in 3 out of 26 episodes, what with RID season 1 being long since done and over with by this point. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 22:52, 25 December 2015 (EST)

:::::::Ah. That's what I get for not actually watching the show. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep|talk]]) 23:06, 25 December 2015 (EST)
I feel like we should revisit this? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 12:29, 9 January 2018 (EST)
:Seconded. With two of the three Prime Wars Trilogy cartoons using Megatronus as the primary name (Megatron only references The Fallen as a nickname/title of sorts, i.e. "the Fallen, the Flame, the one who stood apart from the original Thirteen, the first Decepticon"), that's another piece of non-Aligned media making the shift. It's also been almost a decade since RotF, so I think it doesn't hold as much weight as it used to. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 13:17, 9 January 2018 (EST)
::Agreed. 'The Fallen' title is rarely used anymore, with the biggest one being ROTF, but even then the movie came out almost 9 years ago. Since all current media refer to him as Megatronus, the page should really be called that. And here on this wiki, we usually do real names, not nicknames. Additionally 'Fallen' is a very common name amongst all media (and a word too). [[User:Notirishman|-west james/notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 14:12, 9 January 2018 (EST)
:::There is no amount of other media that counterbalances 1) the first name used for him in fiction or 2) BLOCKBUSTER LIVE ACTION MOVIE. I don't care if it was friggin' 60 years ago. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 15:43, 9 January 2018 (EST)
::::Plus it's like... in the ''title'' of that blockbuster live action movie. "Oh no, no one is going to remember the name of the bad guy from the movie with the name of the bad guy in the title" is just a weird concern. [[User:Diecast|Diecast]] ([[User talk:Diecast|talk]]) 17:21, 9 January 2018 (EST)
::::Right. Just. Fucking. Stop. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 22:21, 9 January 2018 (EST)

== Change the mainpic? ==

Right, so here's the thing; RoTF's been out for a while, we've had two sequels and another forthcoming...and none of the movies since have ever even mentioned The Fallen. He's sort of become discarded within the movie continuity; I mean, you can't erase RoTF from existance, but it seems like Movie Fallen is being silently pushed aside. To this point, DW Fallen is still the most notable instance of the character, since he's both the first occurance of the concept and the (to this point) most unanimously lauded version; Aligned Fallen is screwed by Aligned itself being a clusterfuck, Movie Fallen was barely in his own movie and was not recieved well by anybody...Should we then maybe consider making Dreamwave Fallen the mainpic again?

Mostly because A) The DW-verse Fallen is the first body of the character; so, by the whole "first body/most notable body is mainpic" rule, DW!Fallen should be mainpic, not Movie!Fallen. And B) Movie Fallen has fallen into obscurity, at least as far as the character goes. We usually go with the most well-known bodies of these characters, and I know that DW (as...questionable as they were at times) still had a huge influence on TF comics, about as much as the movies did, IIRC.

So I'd say that we should at least hold a psuedo-council to see if we stick with the mainpic we have now or if we'll switch it out for a different mainpic. Anybody have any thoughts? [[User:MaximalBroadjaw|MaximalBroadjaw]] ([[User talk:MaximalBroadjaw|talk]]) 13:03, 21 February 2016 (EST)
:Most notable? How many people have seen the RotF movie versus know about the comics from a failed publisher? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 13:08, 21 February 2016 (EST)
::DW also single-handedly revived interest in TF comics from all sorts of comic fans, so obviously they're pretty well-known, even if they did go down in flames. RoTF, while still seen by many people, was also probably rather incredibly hampered by the massive negative reception it recieved, which means it probably didn't reach as much people as, say, it's sequel did. In fact, both DoTM and AoE are ''far'' above RoTF in revenue, so obviously a lot more people saw the former two and not the latter.

::Plus, we also need to consider that RoTF was, financially, not the most sucessful of the films; in fact, except for the original, it's the ''worst'' preforming of them. So really, I'd say DW's had a much more lasting impact than RoTF had, at least in any positive ways. [[User:MaximalBroadjaw|MaximalBroadjaw]] ([[User talk:MaximalBroadjaw|talk]]) 19:27, 21 February 2016 (EST)

:::This accomplishes nothing. The mainpic now is perfectly fine. Besides, no one even remembers Dreamwave anymore, except to make Pat Lee jokes. I could see maybe changing the picture to a collage of Megatronus/The Fallen in various continuities similar the one over at [[Sideways (disambiguation)]], but changing to the way he looked in ten year old comics from a dead publisher is aggressively stupid. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep|talk]]) 20:04, 21 February 2016 (EST)

::::Revenge of the Fallen total box office take: $836,300,000. Average ticket price in 2011: $8. Estimated number of people who saw it in the theater worldwide: 104,000,000. Let's be insanely conservative and assume that most people saw it twice. Still, 52,000,000 people. Let's further assume that the home video distribution reached a whopping ZERO people who didn't see the film theatrically.
::::Now let's look at DW. Biggest print run per issue: approximately 100,000. Let's be insanely generous and double that number, to 200,000 unique people reading a DW issue. Then let's double it again because of trade paperbacks, for 400,000. Let's double it a third time because maybe people are lending / selling their old issues. 800,000. Even with all these generous assumptions, Revenge of the Fallen had about 65 times the audience that DW did for its entire existence. --[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 20:07, 21 February 2016 (EST)

==Move to Megatronus?==
It feels like for the last several iterations, "Megatronus" has gotten more and more use than "The Fallen." Between that, the recent movie giving us a rare non-Fallen version of Megatronus, and now the new "Megatronus the Fallen" toy, would it make sense to move the page to "Megatronus" with "The Fallen" as a redirect, rather than the other way around? -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] ([[User talk:Dark T Zeratul|talk]]) 15:53, 28 October 2024 (EDT)
==Split Pages==
Now I'm new to this wiki so excuse me if I'm talking out of turn here but didn't the Shroud remove Multiversal singularities which in that case, shouldn't Megatronus be split into duplicate pages from the year the Shroud happened onward? Just asking -- [[User:Jasenomous_TF|Jasenomous_TF]] ([[User talk:Jasenomous_TF|talk]]) 13:34, 4 November 2024 (MDT)

Orion Pax (One)

2024-10-21T22:15:01Z

Jasenomous TF: Redirected page to Optimus Prime (One)

#REDIRECT[[Optimus Prime (One)]]

The Fallen

2024-10-02T20:59:14Z

Jasenomous TF:

{{factions|{{factions/icons
|custom=Fallen faction symbol.png
|cSize=40x40px
|cLink=The Fallen
|cPretty=
}}|{{factions/icons
|custom=PotP-Megatronus.png
|cSize=40x40px
|cLink=The Fallen
|cPretty=Megatronus
}}|decepticon|unicron|{{factions/icons|custom=Cyberglyphics Prime Symbol.png|cLink=Dynasty of Primes|cPretty=Prime}}|renegade|hofsilver}}
{{featured}}
{{suite}}
{{disambigm|Fallen (episode)|Megatronus (disambiguation)}}

[[File:HeatScramble-TheFallen.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|The levitation trick gets The Fallen all The Ladies at parties.]]

If the [[Thirteen|first Transformers]] were [[Primus]]'s disciples, then '''The Fallen''' is his Judas. At the dawn of time, he was '''Megatronus''', one of a brotherhood of vastly powerful beings dedicated to the well-being of their world. But The Fallen would gain his current moniker by turning against his brother [[Prime (rank)|Prime]]s and his purpose to pursue his own ends, also earning the moniker "the first Decepticon" in the process. His frightening form is a metal cage for primal, burning forces of [[Unicron|chaos]], giving him the appearance of a living furnace. These cauldron-like forces purged him of what empathy and morality remained; all that remains now is hatred and purest rage.

The Fallen is immensely powerful. He commands mystic, entropic arts, and when at full strength he can un-make creation at his focused will. He is rarely defeated; at best he is contained, where he waits with eternal patience for the chance to unleash his dark powers once again. Though he has at times been imprisoned between dimensions, this rarely lasts. When his power is at its height, The Fallen can open [[space bridge]]s and travel between dimensions and realities at will.

Like his brothers, The Fallen was once a [[multiversal singularity]], meaning that in all of the vast [[multiverse]], he had no alternate-universe doppelganger, but that is now [[Shroud|no longer the case]]. In several realities he is the originator of the [[Decepticon]]s, the catalyst that prompted [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]] to claim power for himself rather than the greater good. While the exact details of his past are complicated beyond the understanding of mortals,<ref>See [[Hasbro Q&A/July 2009: Answers|Hasbro Q&A/July 2009: Answer #3]] for more information.</ref> one thing remains consistent: he's bad, bad news.

{{bigquote|You... you're from ''before''. Aren't you?|[[Jetfire (G1)|Jetfire]] on The Fallen|"[[Confrontation (issue)|Confrontation]]"}}

==Fiction==
===Generation 1 continuity family===
====Dreamwave ''Generation One'' continuity====
[[File:Thefallen.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.1|Ah, you know it's funny, these people, they go to sleep, they think everything's fine, everything's good... They wake up the next day and they're on fire.]]

When Primus and Unicron first battled as planets, Primus created the first 13 Transformers to assist him in planet mode. The Fallen's original purpose as one of the 13 was to oversee entropy, the orderly dissolution of all things in preparation for the next creation. But the concept of destruction fascinated him too much, and he lost sight of the goal of rebirth and the necessity of restraint. His investigations into the dark sciences led him to Unicron, to whom he gave himself.<ref>[http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/toys/titanium/the-fallen/1126/2/9/ Fallen's ''Titanium Series'' on-package bio]</ref> Corrupted by Unicron, the Fallen then tried to sabotage his creator's body. This attempt ended in failure, and "The Fallen" fled to his master, but there was little refuge to be found: They were both sucked into a [[black hole]]. {{storylink|Transformers: The Ultimate Guide}}

Approximately 7 million years before the 21st century, [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] and [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] were lost in a [[space bridge]] accident. This accident weakened the barrier between reality and [[unspace|the dimension]] in which The Fallen was trapped, allowing The Fallen to eventually break free and return to Cybertron. The Fallen set about initiating the "[[Unbinding]]", to precipitate the return of Unicron, and spent years, if not millennia, subtly manipulating the Autobots and Decepticons, causing them to splinter into multiple sub-factions that engaged in a constant series of escalating conflicts.

[[File:Thefallenseeksfour.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|Hey, The Fallen, ever heard of Tums?]]

As the time for the Unbinding drew near, the Fallen recruited a [[Chaos Trinity|trio of Decepticon outcasts]], [[Bludgeon (G1)|Bludgeon]], [[Mindwipe (G1)|Mindwipe]], and [[Bugly (G1)|Bugly]], who hungered for a command of [[Dark science|the occult]]. The Fallen promised them all manner of dark powers in exchange for serving him. Leading his three followers to the [[Well of All Sparks]], hidden within Cybertron, he explained that the Unbinding required four particular Transformers, who would function as "angles in the geometry of dissolution", and named [[Grimlock (G1)|Grimlock]] as the first. {{storylink|Fragmentation (G1)|Fragmentation}}

The Fallen and company proceeded to construct a strange machine within the Well of All Sparks in preparation for the Unbinding. Unfortunately, Bludgeon and friends got impatient for more than The Fallen's praise and demanded a more tangible reward: the arcane power he had promised them. The Fallen responded by grabbing Bludgeon's head and giving him a mere glimpse of what he sought: images of a fiery vortex, demonic faces, stabbing swords and a human skull engulfed Bludgeon. The Fallen stated that this was but a peek inside a dark door he would fully open if they served him well. This left Bludgeon suitably inspired to begin hunting down their targets.

[[File:Thefallengrimlock.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.1|Someone should tell Grimlock this more often.]]

Bugly and Mindwipe leaked information to draw the [[Protectobot (G1)|Protectobots]] out into combat with [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]], while Bludgeon hatched a plot to snare both Grimlock and [[Jetfire (G1)|Jetfire]]. {{storylink|Escalation}} Bludgeon, Bugly, and Mindwipe ambushed Jetfire as he attempted a cross-faction meeting with [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]]. When Grimlock crashed the party earlier than they expected, however, The Fallen himself had to intervene and caught Grimlock's blazing energo-sword in his bare hand. {{storylink|Revelation (The Dark Ages)|Revelation}}

Grimlock took one punch from The Fallen yet still got back up, so The Fallen grabbed him by the shoulders and unleashed a huge blast of energy that put the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobot]] leader out cold. Shocked by the display, Jetfire surmised that The Fallen predated the Golden Age. The Fallen responded by knocking Jetfire out cold too. He then dragged Grimlock and Jetfire away and commanded his followers to gather the third angle, while he handled the fourth. The Fallen singlehandedly abducted [[Blitzwing (G1)|Blitzwing]] from his well-guarded holding cell in Autobot headquarters, shrugging off attacks by some of the Autobots' best warriors and causing their weapons to corrode away into uselessness with a mere gesture. Bludgeon's team, meanwhile, succeeded in acquiring [[Hot Spot (G1)|Hot Spot]] from the Protectobots.

[[File:Fallenmoreonfire.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|The Fallen somehow sets himself ''more on fire''.]]

All four angles were strapped to the device in the Well of All Sparks. The Fallen theatrically explained to the awakening Jetfire that they were casualties in the war of the Gods, and would be used to break the Seal of Primus, after which "all chaos will follow". {{storylink|Confrontation (issue)|Confrontation}}

The Fallen continued his villainous monologue, apparently directing it not at Jetfire but at Primus himself, as the four Transformers' unique sparks were drained to unlock the Seal of Primus. A combined army of forces from several factions defeated the Chaos Trinity and penetrated The Fallen's operation. By the time they reached the door, The Fallen was satisfied that the Transformers were too late, until Jetfire arranged a force-field to surround the Seal. The Fallen was further impressed that Jetfire understood enough to try to contain the Seal, but his distraction cost him victory: the God of Light himself was subsequently roused from his slumber where he saw The Fallen. With a gesture of his radiant hand, Primus engulfed his wayward creation in a torrent of searing energy that was then sucked back into the Seal of Primus. {{storylink|Conflagration}}

{{Unreleased DW G1 comic}}
Shockwave broke the Seal for his cloning experiments, siphoning from within it the energy needed to create life. The Fallen's essence had then escaped and corrupted [[Sunstorm (G1)|Sunstorm]]. Following the clone's death, The Fallen's essence passed into Jetfire. Within visions, The Fallen attacked the Autobot over and over, while around them various key moments in Cybertron's history unfolded. Jetfire returned to reality as the Autobots were digging him free from the frozen prison he now found himself in. He was unable to warn them that The Fallen's essence had taken root in his spark as they broke through the ice holding him. {{storylink|The Enemy Within}}

====Japanese Generation 1 cartoon continuity====
=====Train Wars=====
[[File:TrainWars TheFallen.jpg|left|thumb|upright=2|The aftermath of when Queen Metallia claimed his Sun.]]

The Fallen staged an attack on Cybertron to steal [[Vector Sigma]], smashing his way through all Autobot resistance. The mega-computer managed to wrest itself free of the ancient villain's grip long enough to transform into its "[[Primus|Oracle]]" robot mode and lend its power to [[Overdrive]], who then used his powered-up [[Quantum Dial]] to bring forth reinforcements from time itself. The Fallen responded by summoning up troops of his own, who [[combiner|combined]] with him. {{storylink|Train Wars}} In his new combiner mode, The Fallen laid waste to the Autobots' multiversal reinforcements, impaling them on energy-blades. Recovering Vector Sigma, he began to integrate the computer into his body, but was fortunately distracted by [[Daniel Witwicky (G1)|Daniel Witwicky]] long enough for [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]] to arrive with more reinforcements, made up of all kinds of train Transformers. Daniel and his partner [[Shouki]] blasted Vector Sigma free, and [[Shūta Gō]] and [[Goshooter]] then ''kicked'' the computer like a soccer ball, straight into The Fallen's face. The dazed demi-god found himself bound in a [[Trainbot Omni-Car Joint|living chain made up of all the interlinked train Transformers]], leaving him immobilized and open for one final attack. Using the power of Vector Sigma, Shouki unlocked a new transformation, becoming the gigantic "Train Bazooka" weapon, which Shuta then fired at The Fallen, obliterating him. {{storylink|Train Wars 2}}

=====''Legends'' comic=====
[[Smokescreen (G1)|Smokescreen]] cheered on The Fallen in the battle against the opposition. {{storylink|The Road to Legends' Revival Chapter 4: LG-EX Big Powered Prologue Part One|LG-EX Big Powered Prologue Part One}}
{{-}}

====2005 IDW continuity====
{{first|[[The Crucible|''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' #34]] (mentioned); [[Heavy|''Transformers: Till All Are One'' #9]] (depicted)}}

[[File:TheFirstWhoWasNamed-MegatronusOrigins.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|"[[Darth Vader|What is thy bidding, my master?]]"]]

Twelve million years ago, in the primitive age that followed the departure of the [[Knights of Cybertron]], the 'bot who would become "Megatronus" was a humble nomad who wandered the deserts of prehistoric Cybertron alongside the shepherd [[Onyx Prime|Onyx]] and his flock of beasts. One day, the flock came across a badly damaged Transformer in the wastes—unbeknownst to any of them, this was [[Shockwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Shockwave]], who had been cast backwards in time following the destruction of his [[chronal drive]].

Having recognized the figures for who they would become, Shockwave slew Onyx without a moment's hesitation, sending his followers fleeing... all of them, that is, except one of Onyx's compatriots. Realizing that he could use his understanding of Cybertron's past to set the planet's history along the preordained course that he knew it must follow, Shockwave dubbed Onyx's terrified compatriot "Megatronus," naming him after [[Megatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|the Decepticon leader that would one day arise]]. Fashioning a new body for himself from Onyx's remains, Shockwave thus became "Onyx"; knowing from history that Megatronus's conquests would lead to the eventual unification of Cybertron, "Onyx Prime" trained Megatronus in the ways of war and deliberately inspired him to build an empire of his own.

His tutelage complete, Shockwave set Megatronus on the lands to the west, and Shockwave's pupil soon established a kingdom that became known as the "[[Darklands]]". As his power and influence grew over the course of his campaigns, Megatronus became a feared warrior and tyrant, and took to calling himself "The First Who Was Named." {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}}

[[File:OriginMyths-Megatronuskillspeople.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.4|"[[Megatron (Movie)|You still fight for the '''weak!''' That is why you '''lose!'''"]]]]

Late into his conquests, Megatronus marched on neighboring [[Protihex|Protohex]] and easily annexed it into the Darklands, overthrowing its ruler [[Septimus Prime]] and murdering his [[Supplicants of Arrius]]. There, he recruited the gladiator twins [[Arcee (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Arcee]] and [[Galvatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Galvatron]], who proved their loyalty to him by slaughtering their old master. The pair thus became the vanguards of the army as Megatronus continued their eastward advance, conquering the [[Forgotten Plains]], deposing [[Liege Maximo]], and giving them the opportunity to attack the humble village that would one day become the [[Crystal City]]. Unbeknownst to Megatronus, "Onyx Prime" and Liege Maximo had arrived beforehand and galvanized the local tribes into allying with his army of beasts to battle Megatronus - and, by doing so, deliberately providing the necessary impetus that would unite the scattered tribes of Cybertron into a single civilization. Megatronus fought on the front lines before three [[Titan (group)|Titans]], drawn to the sounds of battle, arose from the ground. Megatronus paused to look, giving Onyx the opening to fight his way through Megatronus's forces, meet with his old friend, and convince him to stand down. The two armies quickly ratified a proper truce, and Megatronus and his warriors joined the alliance of [[Prime (rank)|Prime]]s. {{storylink|Origin Myths}}

In the era that followed, the seven Primes were joined by five more, giving rise to the [[Thirteen]], who ruled over the [[Thirteen Tribes]]. Many of the Primes had grown arrogant, however, and began spreading rumors that only a Prime could kill another Prime so as to maintain their superiority over their followers. {{storylink|The Crucible}} At Onyx's urging, [[Prima]] began a program of interstellar expansion; aiming to spread [[Pax Cybertronia]] across the galaxy, he sent Megatronus, Onyx, Alpha Trion, [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]], and the [[Guardian robot|Omega Sentinels]] to lead an extraplanetary colonization mission to neighboring [[Antilla]], claiming that their deeds would spread the "enlightenment" of Cybertronian civilization to other worlds. The Cybertronian colonization force quickly encountered severe resistance from the Antillans; the devastating Antillan/Cybertronian war would end when an [[Unicron's creator|Antillan scientist]] deployed a [[Talisman (G1)|doomsday weapon]] that scoured all life on the planet, and the fallout from the war would ensure that the rest of the universe would come to fear the destructive power of the Transformers. {{storylink|Our Finest}} {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}}

[[File:TheFirstWhoWasNamed-MegatronusKillsSolus.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|"You're with '''HIM!!!''' You brought him here to kill me!"]]

Prima was enraged to learn that their benevolent mission had failed and blamed Megatronus for the disaster; when an insulted Megatronus was subsequently approached by Liege Maximo, the manipulative Prime stoked Megatronus's resentment and eventually brokered a secret alliance, a sequence of events that had been deliberately orchestrated by Shockwave so as to bring about the fall of the Primes as history had foretold. Megatronus and Liege Maximo sought to overthrow Prima, but in the ensuing struggle [[Solus Prime]] sacrificed her life to defend their leader, allowing Megatronus to run her through with her own [[Star Saber (Prima)|Star Saber]]. {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}} Their conspiracy unveiled, the grand alliance between the Primes collapsed and their followers fell to fighting amongst one another, heralding the beginning of the [[First Cybertronian Civil War]]. {{storylink|Heavy}} Megatronus subsequently fled the planet, leaving his co-conspirator to be imprisoned aboard his own [[Titan (group)|Titan]], [[Vigilem]]. {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}}

Without Megatronus leading his tribe, his empire collapsed and his followers went their own ways; Galvatron became notable for deserting his post in Megatronus's faltering army in order to wage a personal crusade against the [[Headmaster (technology)|Headmaster]]s of [[Nexus Prime]]. {{storylink|The Crucible}} {{storylink|Earthfall Part 3: The Mind Bomb|The Mind Bomb}} By the time that Galvatron hunted down and killed Nexus Prime, many of the remaining Primes had fled Cybertron entirely {{storylink|The Crucible}} and Megatronus had taken up residence on the barren world of [[Tsiehshi]], using its voltaic blooms to fuel his systems.

[[File:TheFirstWhoWasNamed-Megatronus.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.66|"I '''SMELL''' you, boy!"]]

Seeking to bring him to justice, Prima, Alpha Trion, and Onyx Prime left Cybertron to search for him aboard the Titan [[Emissary (IDW)|Emissary]]. They tracked him to Tsiehshi, where Prima and Onyx faced down the rogue Prime in a final duel; in the ensuing battle, Megatronus simply bisected Prima with his Star Saber. To ensure that the [[Matrix of Leadership]] in the sword's hilt would find its way to its [[Nova Prime|next owner]] when the time was right, however, Onyx coldly informed his student that his usefulness was at an end and murdered him, telling him that—thanks to the impending rise of Megatron—Cybertronians would, after a fashion, remember his name.

On returning to Alpha Trion, Onyx told the record-keeper the version of events that would find their way into the records of Cybertronian myth, lying that Prima had heroically slain Megatronus at the cost of his own life... a fabrication based on the stories that Shockwave had been told in his youth. {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}}

[[File:OP18-MegatronusDead.jpg|right|thumb|upright=1.5|"Who would you be without me, Prime?" "Time to find out."]]

Megatronus's name was stricken from the Cybertronian records for his crimes, and on both Cybertron and its colony worlds he was only remembered as "The Fallen". {{storylink|Conquerors Part 2: Lagrange|Lagrange}} When Alpha Trion recounted the story of the war's end to [[Optimus Prime (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Optimus Prime]], he was unable to elaborate on why Megatronus and Megatron shared such similar names. {{storylink|The Crucible}} He was, however, able to point out that Shockwave had sent one of his [[Regenesis]] ores, [[Ore-8]], to Tsiehshi, where Megatronus had once resided; unbeknownst to Trion, this was because "Onyx Prime" had manipulated events so that his younger self would select this planet for the Regenesis project. {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}}

On the eve of [[Earth]]'s official induction into the [[Council of Worlds]], Alpha Trion told Optimus Prime, [[Starscream (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Starscream]], and [[Pyra Magna]] the story of how Megatronus's conquests had first brought the Thirteen together all those years ago. Starscream questioned if he was represented in this story by Arcee or Megatronus, believing the latter to be a made-up name. {{storylink|Origin Myths}}

When "Onyx Prime" and his tribe of [[Maximal]]s invaded Cybertron some weeks later, [[Devastator (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Devastator]], driven on by [[Scoop (G1)|Scoop]]'s religious fanaticism, reached an earth-shattering epiphany: the duplicitous, backstabbing Starscream was the reincarnation of Megatronus. Initially unsure of this revelation, Starscream went with it until Shockwave, unmasked as an impostor, revealed that he had orchestrated the decidedly mortal Starscream's disastrous rise and fall from power. {{storylink|The Falling, Chapter 4: The Hallowing|The Hallowing}}
{{-}}

====''Prime Wars Trilogy'' cartoons====
{{voiceactor|[[Mark Hamill]] (English)}}

[[File:POTP-Cartoon-Ep3-SolusDies.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|left|"You will remain here in the Fire Nation."]]

[[File:Megatronus.jpeg|thumb|upright=1.4|"You're weak, just like the rest of your people! They did not deserve to exist in this world, in my world! Prepare to join them! Prepare to die!"]]

Long ago, Megatronus was hailed as a hero for his defeat of [[Unicron/Generation 1|Unicron]] using the [[Requiem Blaster (Megatronus)|Requiem Blaster]]. However, he and his lover [[Solus Prime]] clashed over what to do with the Blaster afterwards, as Megatronus wanted to keep it for his own rather than see it destroyed. {{storylink|The Swamp}} As the two fought, the weapon was accidentally discharged, killing Solus and leaving Megatronus to grieve. {{storylink|Without Warning}} The other Primes took back the Blaster from Megatronus, sealing it away, and he placed himself into exile until he could find a way to reunite with his deceased love. {{storylink|Athenaeum Sanctorum (episode)|Athenaeum Sanctorum}}

Many years later, Megatronus orchestrated the events of both the [[Combiner Wars (event)|Combiner Wars]] and [[Trypticon (G1)|Trypticon]]'s resurrection from behind the scenes in an attempt to claim the [[Enigma of Combination]] and the [[Matrix of Leadership]]. To this end, he recruited [[Overlord (G1)|Overlord]] to his cause and guided him to the [[Matrix of Conquest|Matrix of Chaos]] within Unicron's remains, promising Overlord immense power after his plan had succeeded. [[Hot Rod (G1)|Hot Rod]] also joined the ranks of his acolytes after Overlord used the Matrix of Chaos to turn him into Rodimus Cron. {{storylink|Volcanicus (episode)|Volcanicus}} After Trypticon's defeat, [[Victorion]] attempted to claim the Enigma and Matrix, but Megatronus surrounded them with a fiery aura, destroying part of Victorion's [[Dust Up|arm]]. He appeared before the other Transformers, warning them that their time had come to an end. [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] attempted to distract Megatronus with an angry outburst, giving [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] and [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]] a chance to surprise attack him, but Megatronus brushed Maximus aside and killed Optimus. With no one else daring to challenge him, Megatronus took the two relics and departed to complete his plans. {{storylink|All Things Must Pass}}

[[File:TR-Ep10-All-Things-Must-Pass-Fallen-appears.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.2|"Even with all the power in the world, you are still weak."]]

Determined to reunite with Solus, Megatronus turned his sights towards the missing Requiem Blaster. Unsure where it might have been hidden, he began searching its most likely hiding places, burning them to the ground when left empty-handed. {{storylink|The Swamp}} In the [[Well of All Sparks|Well of Sparks]], he began gathering the sparks of Overlord's and Rodimus Cron's victims and installed the Enigma and Matrix into an device which, when combined with the Blaster, would be capable of ripping the spark from every Transformer. {{storylink|Without Warning}} Taking notice of the Blaster being fired, Megatronus rushed to the [[Athenaeum Sanctorum]], where he revealed his plan. After clashing with Megatron, [[Optimus Primal (BW)|Optimus Primal]] and a Unicron-possessed Rodimus, he grabbed the Blaster and took off to put his plan into motion. {{storylink|Consequences}}

[[File:POTP-Cartoon-Ep7-FlameOn.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|"It's time for this world to end in fire, and for a new world to be born from the ashes."]]

Megatronus returned to the [[Well of All Sparks|Well of Sparks]] and installed the Blaster, activating his doomsday weapon. The machine began to drain everyone's sparks as planned, causing Solus to manifest, but they were interrupted by the arrival of Megatron and his team. Refusing to lose, Megatronus shot down Windblade, but was restrained by Grimlock and Optimus Primal. However, the sight of his nearly-resurrected lover gave him the strength to break free, and he burned all the others except Megatron, who moved to protect them. Before he could finish them off, their battle was interrupted by the unexpected arrival of Rodimus Cron, now totally under Unicron's control {{storylink|Collision Course}} and determined to destroy Megatronus and Solus for being part of [[Primus]]'s Thirteen, along with the Matrix. Megatronus battled against Unicron while repeatedly having to divert his attention towards the others attacking his device. Temporarily incapacitating Unicron, Megatronus attacked the others despite Solus's pleas for him to stop, but was unable to prevent them from releasing the relics as the Matrix transformed Primal into Optimal Optimus. While Unicron attacked the new Prime, Megatronus made a grab for the Enigma and Blaster, only to be restrained by the other heroes. {{storylink|Megatronus Unleashed}} He managed to overtake them and grab the Blaster, seeking vengeance for the failure of his plans, but was caught off guard when new arrival [[Predaking (G1)|Predaking]] landed on him from above. The two briefly battled before Megatronus gained the upper hand and ripped off Predaking's head, and attempted to stop Megatron from destroying Solus. His lover, however, suddenly grew in size and grabbed him. Despite his pleas that his love for her was everlasting, she rebuked him and dragged him into the Well, finally killing him. {{storylink|Saga's End}}
{{-}}

====''Power of the Primes'' marketing material====
Megatronus's [[Spark]] passed into the possession of one of the twelve [[Prime Master]]s; hidden within a suit of decoy armor, they safeguarded the abilities of the Primes until the present day. By uniting with a larger Transformer, the Prime Master could channel the powers of Megatronus's Spark and grant them unique abilities that varied with each new partner. {{storylink|The Fallen/toys#Generations|''Power of the Primes'' Bomb-Burst / Megatronus online bio}}

{{note|For a list of every permutation of Megatronus's abilities, see [[Prime Master/Combinations|this link]].}}

====2019 IDW continuity====
[[File:EndOfTime-Thirteen.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.66]]

Megatronus was remembered as one of the Thirteen, described by [[Termagax]] as avatars of the life pattern that infused Cybertron itself. {{storylink|End of Time}}
{{--}}

===Fun Publications===
[[File:The Evil One.jpg|right|upright=0.8|thumb|"Someone remembered me!"]]

Though [[Vector Prime]] did not necessarily think history was wrong to record Megatronus as a monster, he ''was'' his brother, and Vector still had happy memories of their time together before Megatronus's fall from grace. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/06/14}} During the Thirteen's time in ancient Greece in some [[universal stream]]s, the holomatter avatar that the rage-filled Megatronus used to interact with the human population inspired the myth of {{w|Ares}}. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/07/20}} He used to have an impressive collection of antique melee weapons before [[Sideways (AVP)|Sideways]] ruined it with Cosmic Rust... at least, according to Sideways. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime|Sideways, 2015/07/02}}

In the [[Gargent]] realities, where he went by the name "'''the Evil One'''", Megatronus nearly destroyed [[Gobotron]] with the Dark Heart, only to wind up under the [[Nazca Lines]] on Earth. [[Vector Prime]] noted that this was not the only reality where Megatronus was drawn to human pyramids and wondered if there was any link to [[Devil Z]]'s own affinity for pyramids and the Nazca Lines. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/05/30}} [[Cy-Kill (GoBots)|Cy-Kill]] would even be heard to swear by the Evil One. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Renegade Rhetoric|Renegade Rhetoric (1), 2015/10/13}}

[[File:Vectorprimeut.jpg|thumb|left|Back, and to the left.]]

Jealous of his brothers and sisters, Megatronus was motivated to move against his siblings, and targeted Prima's [[Star Saber (Prima)|Star Saber]], intending to take it for his own. To keep it out of his hands, [[Solus Prime]] shattered the blade with her [[Forge of Solus Prime|Forge]], and each piece was taken by one of [[Nexus Prime]]'s components and scattered across the multiverse. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/05/18}} {{storylink|Out of the One, Many}}

Millions of years later, when [[Vector Prime]] returned to the linear universe to deal with the [[Unicron Singularity]] crisis, he reminisced about his mission and his past, including the silhouetted form of The Fallen. {{storylink|Vector Prime: In the Beginning}} Vector's return was soon followed by the that of Nexus Prime, who set about reassembling the Star Saber. While visiting [[Primax 509.28 Epsilon|one universe]]'s Cybertron as part of his quest for the sword's fragments, Nexus decided to tell his companion [[Aquarius (SG)|Aquarius]] about his quest. As he explained the danger of the artifact falling into evil hands, the face of The Fallen flashed through his mind. {{storylink|The Coming Storm: Part 1}}

When dimensional scoundrel [[Sideways (AVP)|Sideways]] seized control of Vector Prime's [[Ask Vector Prime#Facebook|ANN Q&A column]], he commented, "Every time The Fallen polishes his pistons reality splits." to explain why he could be cloned. Surprisingly, this was actually the truth, more or less. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Facebook|Ask Sideways, 2015/06/29}}

When Nexus succeeded in locating the Star Saber, he combined its power with that of the [[Terminus Blade]] to [[Shroud|thicken the walls of reality]], limiting dimensional travel. The Fallen and the other members of the Thirteen gathered to witness this momentous event, and found that, as a side effect, they ceased to exist as [[Multiversal singularity|multiversal singularities]]. {{storylink|Out of the One, Many}}
{{-}}

===Live-action film series continuity family===
====''Revenge of the Fallen'' film====
{{voiceactor|[[Tony Todd]] (English), [[Masafumi Kimura]] (Japanese)|[[Zhao Xiaoming]] (Chinese), [[José Luccioni]] (European French), [[Bert Franzke]] (German), [[Gabriel Pingarrón]] (Latin American-Spanish), [[Ramón Canals]] (Castilian Spanish), [[Carlos Gesteira]] (Portuguese), [[Gaetano Varcasia]] (Italian), [[Ender Yiğit]] (Turkish)}}

[[File:TheFallen-ROTFwithPrimes.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.95|''Ocupado!'']]

Nineteen thousand years ago, The Fallen accompanied [[Dynasty of Primes|his brother Primes]] to [[Earth]] in an attempt to harvest the [[Sun|star]] it orbited. Just as they had completed construction of the [[Star Harvester]], however, The Fallen discovered [[Human|a primitive race of hunters]]. The Primes invoked their rule of the sanctity of life and refused to activate the harvester, but The Fallen despised the humans as simple insects and attempted to activate the Harvester. A great battle took place, but ultimately, The Fallen was defeated and the remaining Primes hid themselves and the [[Matrix of Leadership]], and The Fallen's harvester was concealed within a pyramid in [[Egypt]]. The Fallen dispatched the [[Seeker (ROTF)|Seekers]] to locate the Matrix, but they proved unable and he eventually abandoned them. The Fallen became known as the first [[Decepticon]], and he became the master of [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]], leader of the faction. He employed Megatron in the pursuit of the [[AllSpark]], but after Megatron's defeat at [[Mission City]], the AllSpark was reduced to a mere fragment.

[[File:TheFallen-ROTFNemesis.jpg|thumb|upright=1.95]]

Upon Megatron's revival he traveled to the ''[[Nemesis (ROTF)|Nemesis]]'', where The Fallen stayed in a life-support chair while [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] oversaw the creation of a new army of Decepticons. Prostrating himself before the Fallen, Megatron said that he had failed his master and their race by allowing the AllSpark to be destroyed. Amused by his disciple's misinformation, The Fallen revealed that the cube was merely a vessel, while the knowledge within the AllSpark was instead placed within the mind of the human who had challenged Megatron, [[Sam Witwicky]]. With the knowledge within Sam's mind, they could find the Star Harvester and the Matrix needed to activate it. Megatron asked permission to avenge himself and reclaim the AllSpark, but The Fallen asked for patience, though he could understand his desire, as The Fallen himself hungered to return to the wretched planet where his brother Primes had betrayed him. The Fallen also explained that the only threat to him was the last surviving Prime, [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus]]. Since Optimus would protect Sam, The Fallen ordered Megatron to capture the boy and draw out the Prime.

Megatron's mission was partially successful: although the boy escaped, Optimus came to defend him and died in the process. The Fallen sensed his death and was very pleased, knowing that the time to strike was now. When the Decepticons traveled to the Earth's surface in [[transition form|re-entry mode]]s, The Fallen accompanied them, destroying an [[USS Theodore Roosevelt|aircraft carrier]] as well as attacking several cities. As the aircraft carrier sank into the ocean, The Fallen quietly intoned that revenge was finally his. The Fallen tapped into Earth's communication network, and announced the presence of the Transformers on Earth on worldwide television, demanding the "human hive" hand over Sam or be destroyed.

[[File:ROTF Fallen headchop.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.66|Can't. Take. Our. Sun. Unless you got buns, hon! And, oh man, he don't.]]

Unfortunately, Sam was in Egypt hunting for the [[Matrix of Leadership]] after being told it might be able to revive Optimus. He succeeded, but moments after Prime's resurrection, The Fallen appeared amongst the assorted NEST troops, scattering the soldiers, pinning Optimus, and stealing the Matrix. He then teleported to the harvester that was uncovered earlier by [[Devastator (ROTF)|Devastator]], and as he inserted the Matrix into the machine, he declared that his brothers had failed as he now claimed the Sun. While it charged, the humans attempted to destroy the harvester with their heavy weapons. Unimpressed with their display, The Fallen demonstrated his considerable power by destroying the attacking military forces with telekinesis, then raised a blockade of debris to prevent an air strike. However, a super-powered Optimus Prime, now fused with [[Jetfire (Movie)|Jetfire]], destroyed the harvester and attacked The Fallen, sending them both falling to the ground below.

[[File:TheFallen-ROTFfacegotten.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Don't talk to me or my Sun ever again!]]

{{quote|Die, like your brothers!}}
{{quote|They were your brothers, too.|The Fallen and [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]]|''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen]]''}}

Enraged, The Fallen commanded Optimus to join his brothers in death and two engaged in a fierce duel, but it quickly became apparent that Optimus was strong enough to face The Fallen. Megatron attacked Optimus in an attempt to help his master, but was quickly overpowered and knocked out. The Fallen counterattacked Optimus, managing to rip off Prime's left rocket thruster and strike him in the face with it. However, Optimus eventually managed to impale The Fallen through the shoulder with his own spear, then demanded his face, tearing it off. The Fallen tried to flee, but Optimus Prime punched through his chest and ripped out his spark core, finally killing The Fallen.

Afterwards, a wounded and horrified Megatron fled with Starscream, and the Autobots and their allies declared victory. {{Storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen}}

{{note|The Fallen's involvement in the preceding events, or events mostly similar, were also chronicled in the novels "[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (novel)|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen]]," "[[Revenge of the Fallen: The Junior Novel]]" and "[[The Last Prime]]"; the "[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Official Movie Adaptation]]" and "[[Movie Trilogy]]" comics; and the storybooks "[[I Am Optimus Prime (ROTF)|I Am Optimus Prime]]," "[[Rise of the Decepticons]]", "[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Electronic Voice Changer]]" and "[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Mix & Match]]." Most of these adaptations are based on early drafts of the script and provide more backstory for The Fallen, such as his hunt for the descendants of his brother Primes, and his promise to Megatron that he would make him a Prime—something Optimus exposes as a lie during their final battle, as one can only be born a Prime, leading Megatron to abandon his teacher. In several, Optimus defeats him not by killing him, but by [[:File:TheFallen-thrownintospace.jpg|hurling him into space]].}}
{{--}}

====IDW movie comics====
[[File:Defianceissue4-creation.jpg|left|thumb|upright=0.85|Look [[Prima|familiar]]?]]

According to The Fallen, he and his brothers were the first creations of the [[AllSpark]]. The planet that would become [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] was mostly barren, but as the AllSpark gradually shaped Cybertron around them and gave The Fallen and his brothers power beyond measure, the cube's own power was depleted. They learned that its power could be replenished by harvesting the energy of stars, but they were unable to locate new stars to suit their purposes, despite their amazing ability to travel between dimensions using triangular "[[sarcophagus|sarcophagi]]". {{storylink|Defiance issue 4|Defiance #4}} As he quested, The Fallen came to believe that the AllSpark was speaking to him, telling him of a grander destiny than that of his brothers, picking him as its "chosen one." {{storylink|Tales of the Fallen issue 4|Tales of the Fallen #4}}

To aid the Dynasty of Primes in their quest, the AllSpark created for them a race of [[Transformer|workers]] that had a power of their own: the ability to transform their bodies into new forms! Some, called "[[Seeker (ROTF)|Seekers]]", could change into interstellar crafts that could locate stars for them, the energies of which would then be harvested to power the AllSpark by massive devices built by the [[Constructicon (ROTF)|other workers]]. The Dynasty tempered their search with the rule of sparing stars with inhabited worlds, but The Fallen believed that the Dynasty's compassion would ultimately doom the Cybertronians to inevitable extinction. As he sought a way to fix this problem, The Fallen came to think evil thoughts. What if there were no other Primes to share the AllSpark with? What if its power was his alone? {{storylink|Defiance issue 4|Defiance #4}}

[[File:JetfireROTF-TalesoftheFallen.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|I'm trustworthy!]]

The Fallen began to court some Transformers to his side. He selected a small number of the [[Constructicon (ROTF)|Constructicon]] drones to do his bidding in private, ultimately in service of subverting the Dynasty of Primes in favor of his own agenda. He called this group the Decepticons. [[Jetfire (Movie)|Jetfire]], The Fallen's most trusted and capable Seeker, began to unwittingly harvest the stars of inhabited star systems; the two would scan a system together, but The Fallen would report that his search areas were devoid of life. This practice got The Fallen and Jetfire into trouble with the other Primes, and so The Fallen began to sow seeds of mistrust in Jetfire. He claimed the Primes' refusal to sacrifice life to save their own planet would be its downfall, and that an army had to be readied in case the Primes betrayed them all. {{storylink|Tales of the Fallen issue 3|Tales of the Fallen #3}}

[[File:TalesoftheFallen4-theyshallpay.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.66|Yummy, yummy, yummy, I got hate in my tummy!]]

The Fallen attempted to build a Star Harvester on his own, powered by a counterfeit [[Matrix of Leadership]] he had constructed. However, it was unstable, and the resulting explosion infused The Fallen with power he had never known. He now burned with dark, unimaginable powers from within. The Fallen, feeling a darker sense of purpose that complemented his darker powers, traveled from world to world to world, killing scores of organisms and assimilating their technology, and leaving the dry husks of planets in his wake. He evolved, and during his ascension he planned for the eventual battle with his brothers. {{storylink|Tales of the Fallen issue 4|Tales of the Fallen #4}}

As Jetfire joined the Decepticons, The Fallen took them to a planet named Earth, and they built a [[Star Harvester]] to claim the [[Sun]]. However, it, too, harbored life: The Fallen was building the harvester there to either bait his brothers into taking action (while he was prepared to kill them all) or to remain in limbo. Either way, he won! Jetfire finally turned against his master, just as the remaining Primes arrived, falling into the traitor's trap. The Fallen warped Jetfire and his other underlings away and faced his brothers alone. {{storylink|Tales of the Fallen issue 3|Tales of the Fallen #3}}

[[File:TalesoftheFallen4-notlikethis.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|Ever since he was a child, he was hated by triangles.]]

The battle between The Fallen and the other Primes was costly. They did not expect The Fallen to have so much power, and one by one they fell by his wretched hand. He had "expanded [his] consciousness—absorbed the mental mass of a hive intelligence seventy trillion strong, probed the neural functions of creatures that swim in unrefined thought..." Since last they met, he was "so much more" than they were. The Fallen was able to grab weapons from his stockpile through personal dimensional portals, and one by one he murdered his brothers until there was only one Prime left to oppose him. With one last desperate gamble, the final Prime fled, and he and The Fallen warped from location to location; The Fallen thought this Prime was merely stalling, but he was gravely mistaken. The final Prime had gathered up the bodies of his defeated brothers, and when at last he had collected them all and The Fallen was weak from overteleportation, he used their combined lifeforce to banish The Fallen forever. The Fallen was sent through his sarcophagus and trapped in another dimension, where he crashed into a desolate landscape, swearing revenge. {{storylink|Tales of the Fallen issue 4|Tales of the Fallen #4}}{{storylink|Foundation issue 2|Foundation #2}}

Knowledge of this was lost through the ages, and the Dynasty of Primes became little more than a myth. Thousands of years later, however, The Fallen's sarcophagus was unearthed on modern-day Cybertron and brought to the quarters of the planet's military leader Megatron. There, sensing the fury and resentment, The Fallen established contact with Megatron, filling him with a new resolve to destroy those who sought out the AllSpark. {{Storylink|Defiance issue 2|Defiance #2}} In the aftermath of Megatron's ruthless battle against a band of [[Ejoornian|aliens]] seeking the AllSpark, The Fallen further counseled him to seize control of Cybertron to make way for The Fallen's return. He also told him that [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus]] sought the AllSpark for himself, and Megatron immediately decided that Optimus and his followers deserved to be killed for this transgression. {{Storylink|Defiance issue 3|Defiance #3}}

[[File:Defiance4 Megatron TheFallen.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|left|All right, who changed the thermostat!?]]

But simply taking the planet would not be enough. The Fallen also ordered Megatron to build a [[Nemesis (Movie)|space cruiser]] to seek out the Matrix, which he said was a prerequisite to his return. As the ship's construction came to an end, The Fallen told Megatron the story of his origin and his plans regarding the harvester on Earth. The Fallen ordered Megatron to put his sarcophagus on the ship and then stay behind to fight Optimus's forces and safeguard the AllSpark. [[Soundwave (ROTF)|Soundwave]] and a majority of the Decepticon soldiers crewed the ship.
Meanwhile, on Cybertron, civil war raged between Optimus's Autobots and Megatron's Decepticons, a war which eventually led to the AllSpark being launched into space. {{storylink|Defiance issue 4|Defiance #4}} {{storylink|Foundation issue 3|Foundation #3}}

The ''Nemesis'' came across the AllSpark's energon signature, to Soundwave's disbelief. The Fallen began speaking to Soundwave just as a [[Ark (DOTM)|ship]] crashed into the ''Nemesis'', and disappeared once more through a portal. After landing the ship on a dead planet, Soundwave was commanded to pursue the ship via the portal—that The Fallen recognized as a [[space bridge]]—it left behind. {{storylink|Convergence chapter 1}} Later, Megatron found the abandoned ''Nemesis'' during his pursuit of the AllSpark. He once again spoke with The Fallen, who was furious that Megatron had taken this detour. He ordered him to resume the chase immediately, confident that the Cube would guide them to the harvester. Megatron obeyed, leaving the sarcophagus in the barren wreckage. {{storylink|Defiance issue 4|Defiance #4}}

Thousands of years later, Soundwave returned, having recovered a space bridge [[pillar]] from the Autobot ship. The Fallen informed Soundwave of Megatron's visit, and Soundwave deduced Megatron was one of the Cybertronians rumored to be held captive by the humans, prompting him to return. The Fallen then used the pillar to warp space and time, leaving his prison at last... {{storylink|Convergence chapter 4}}
{{-}}

====''Transformers: The Movie Universe''====
The original Transformers, all of them Primes, were united by a directive that safeguarded all life, and as such they refused to utilize the harvester on the inhabited Earth. One of their number, however, decided "I want Energon!" and slaughtered his brothers so he could harvest the Sun. He threw away his original name and became the Fallen. In the end, he slaughtered all of his brethren, but they were still able to imprison him in a pocket dimension and save the Earth. In the process, his appearance had changed to a terrifying, cage-like exostructure burning with chaotic energies from the universe's creation, forces that had purged him of all morality. Since his body was never meant to contain the unholy power flowing through it, he had to steadily vent that energy to ensure his own continued existence. This created the visual effect of a constant fiery nimbus.

While effectively harmless to the universe outside his prison, his powers remained vast: He could generate space bridges spontaneously, as well as focus his energies into discrete blasts that could unmake creation itself. Were he ever able to escape, he would be a supremely powerful danger. {{storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen: The Movie Universe|The Movie Universe}}

====Titan movie comics====
The Fallen was the worst of the worst—he made Devastator look like a puppy with a bad tummy! {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.3|#3's Contents section}}

Legend had it that the first seven Transformers were created by [[Primus]], but the Fallen believed them to be creations of the AllSpark. Their task was to harvest Energon for the AllSpark without endangering alien life, but the Fallen cared nothing for the [[Human|puny meatsacks]] of Earth and tried to harvest the Sun! {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.3|The Fallen Profile}} His duped servant Jetfire watched in horror as the Fallen imprisoned the other six Primes! {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.8|Jetfire Profile}} However, the Primes still managed to sacrifice themselves to hide the Creation Matrix, key to the AllSpark, while the Fallen was imprisoned in a pocket dimension on one of Saturn's moons... until Megatron released him! {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.3|The Fallen Profile}}

[[File:Titan1 FallenStarscream.jpg|upright=3|thumb|Behold my <s>resting</s> mighty hand!]]

Soon after Megatron's death in Mission City, The Fallen made contact with [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] and used him to organize the Decepticon army and lay the groundwork for his return. He ordered Starscream and his forces to go to Cybertron and await further instruction, and promised that once the Matrix was found, [[Earth]] would ''burn''! Unfortunately for The Fallen, Autobot twins [[Skids (ROTF)|Skids]] and [[Mudflap (ROTF)|Mudflap]] learned the Starscream was colluding with The Fallen (though not who or what The Fallen ''was''), and headed for Earth to warn Optimus Prime. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.1|Training Day}} The Fallen had [[Soundwave (ROTF)|Soundwave]] contact one of his Seekers still on the planet, [[Ransack (ROTF)|Ransack]], and had him dispatched him to deal with the Twins. He angrily warned Starscream not to fail again, grrrr! {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.2|Dogfight!}}

However, due to his imprisonment, the Fallen could only communicate with his generals and not Ransack directly, which led to Soundwave taking his own actions and working his own angles to try and find the Tomb of the Primes, which included recruiting the Twins, rather than eliminating them. In a fitting act of cosmic irony, the twins turned out to be faking their defection, and they put an end to Soundwave's treacherous scheme. Ransack intended to inform the Fallen, but evidently never made it, while Skids and Mudflap decided that, after all the trouble they had gotten in to after coming to Earth, they'd better not tell anyone about that whole "Fallen" thing they'd learned about after all. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.8|Back-to-Back}}

=====Law and Disorder=====
The Fallen suffered from iron barnacles in the folds of his armor... and if YOU were an Autobot sympathizer, you would be forced to clean them out! {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.7|#7's Law and Disorder}}

====Toy bios====
[[File:TF2010-The-Fallen-art.jpg|thumb|right|250px|I did more things here than on my feature film.]]

Since even before history was recorded on Cybertron, the Fallen has lurked in the shadows, guiding the fate of his fellow machines. His is the hand in the darkness that drives the engines of fate. It was him that engineered the civil war on Cybertron and drove the Decepticons to slaughter their Autobot counterparts. Now on the primitive, flesh-slug infected planet known as Earth, he has stepped out of the shadows to finally seize the [[Star Harvester|power]] he has sought for millennia. {{storylink|The Fallen/toys#Robot Replicas|Robot Replicas The Fallen}}

For thousands of years, the Fallen has recruited proxies to scour the cosmos for the star harvester he required before returning to Earth, the very planet on which his quest began. Nothing will stand in his way this time, and he will scour the surface of this disgusting world clean in the fire of his rage and search through the blasted rubble for that which he seeks. {{storylink|The Fallen/toys#Voyager Class toys|''Revenge of the Fallen'' Voyager The Fallen}}

Aware that only a true Prime can destroy him, the Fallen has entered every battle knowing that the outcome of his victory is inevitable. Modern-day Autobots such as [[Ratchet (Movie)|Ratchet]] and [[Highbrow (TF 2010)|Highbrow]] stand no chance against him, for he wields the power of advanced technology that looks like magic. The Fallen will crush the miserable Autobots that dare to challenge him before proceeding with his plans as if the interruption never occurred. {{storylink|The Fallen/toys#TF2010Voyager|''Hunt for the Decepticons'' Voyager The Fallen}}

As a desperate battle raged in the desert below him, the Fallen reveled in his triumph. The ancient machine with which he intends to harvest the Sun's energy would soon be uncovered and the Earth would be destroyed if he were to win. {{storylink|The Fallen/toys#Transformers (2010)|The Victory of The Fallen}}

====Ask Vector Prime====
Vector Prime recounted the story of [[Tyran 208.28 Gamma]], an alternate timeline in which Megatron and the Decepticons triumphed in the battle of [[Mission City]], but were then trapped on the dead Cybertron by the Autobots before they managed to free The Fallen. Sensing the loss of his servants, The Fallen summoned a new army of Decepticons (including [[Blue Maximus]], [[Chopsaw]], [[Undertow (PCC)|Undertow]], and [[Duststorm (TF 2010)|Duststorm]]) to terrorize Earth! Many an epic battle was fought against them! {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/08/21}}

====''Shattered Glass''====
[[File:Coalescence FallenSunstormAlphaTrion.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.66]]

One version of the Fallen from an unknown universe, while within the agonies of defeat, desperately fled through a seam in reality, but miscalculated, and ended up in [[Primax -408.24 Epsilon|an unconventional reality]]. Due to being in a negative polarity universe, rather than being constantly on fire, the Fallen was now constantly frozen, and only his devoted servant [[Sunstorm (Universe)|Sunstorm]] kept him warm. {{charstubfiction|{{storylink|Coalescence}}}}

===''Animated'' cartoon===
[[Kup (Animated)|Kup]] sardonically compared [[Rodimus Prime (Animated)|Hot Rod]]'s paint job to the Fallen's. {{storylink|Transformers Animated: The AllSpark Almanac II|The AllSpark Almanac II}}

===Aligned continuity family===
====''The Covenant of Primus''====
[[File:MegatronusPrime.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|To have a helmet as good as this will cost you your soul... and also ten cents.]]

Megatronus was the twelfth Prime created by Primus to defeat [[Unicron]]. Rightfully proud of his power and unwaveringly loyal to his creator [[Primus]], he thought of himself as a warrior first and foremost, but his dark powers and conflicted nature meant that he was rarely at peace with himself. His artifact of power—the deadly [[Requiem Blaster (Megatronus)|Requiem Blaster]]—used stellar fusion as an energy conduit, exponentially increasing his already destructive powers. Viewing himself as an outsider, he frequently butted heads with the warrior of light [[Prima]], to the point where even his closest allies among the Thirteen viewed him as an unpredictable and unstable presence. In spite of this, he struck up a close friendship with Solus Prime, which eventually blossomed into a mutual romance. Not even Solus Prime's comforting presence could rein in Megatronus's chaotic tendencies; his private insecurities and hidden fears continued to fester, and soon gave way to something darker.

The thirteen newly created Primes soon began experimenting with their powers and strategizing for the upcoming conflict. Megatronus considered himself a warrior and trained alongside Vector Prime, Prima, [[Onyx Prime]], and [[Amalgamous Prime|Amalgamous]]. Megatronus, having the closest connection to Unicron, offered advice to Solus Prime on how to create the best weapons to defeat the chaos-bringer. Among their collaborative efforts were [[Dark Energon skin]]s, which would protect the Primes from the toxic [[Dark Energon]]. Megatronus eventually requested that a blaster be made for him by Solus Prime. She reluctantly agreed, and the Requiem Blaster was forged. Solus had doubts about the weapon, but her deep faith in Megatronus was what allowed her to trust him with the Blaster.

[[File:COP-Megatronusshootssolus.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|left|"How could this happen? We started out like Romeo and Juliet but it ended up in tragedy!"]]

When the fight against Unicron came, Megatronus fought alongside his siblings, and was ultimately triumphant. However, some of Unicron's darkness had rubbed off on all of them; a fact that Megatronus strangely appeared to revel in. In the era of peace and rebuilding that followed, Megatronus worked alongside [[Liege Maximo]], [[Micronus Prime]], and Amalgmous Prime, refining [[Energon]] for future use. He slowly befriended more of the Thirteen, although his love for Solus Prime never faded.

Unfortunately, this period of peace was not to last. Megatronus and Solus Prime were both being manipulated by Liege Maximo, who managed to drive a schism between the two lovers. Megatronus confronted Solus Prime over a newly created suit of armor intended for Maximo's "farm". Their disagreement eventually grew into a full-fledged fight after Megatronus killed her pet, which had secretly been recording Solus Prime's actions. In the chaos, Megatronus fired the Requiem Blaster without thinking, fatally wounding Solus Prime. Before Solus passed away, however, she professed her love for him.

Megatronus hid himself away in the untamed regions of Cybertron, until the surviving Primes discovered him. Megatronus confessed his crime, but also accused Maximo of setting up the whole plot, and aimed to kill him once and for all. The accusations flew quickly, and before long the argument descended into a free-for-all. In the aftermath, Liege Maximo was apparently blown apart by a shot from the Requiem Blaster, although [[Alpha Trion (WFC)|Alpha Trion]] could not identify just who had fired the weapon. Along with the surviving Primes, a repentant Megatronus attended Solus's funeral. Renaming himself "the Fallen", he donned Solus Prime's suit of armor and went into exile in space, never to be seen again.

Eons later, a young gladiator and social rhetorician named [[Megatron (WFC)|D-16]] took inspiration from ancient folk tales, renaming himself "Megatronus". {{storylink|Transformers: The Covenant of Primus|The Covenant of Primus}}
{{-}}

====Aligned novels====
Megatronus conceived the idea of the [[Requiem Blaster (Megatronus)|Requiem Blaster]], a weapon so powerful that it dwarfed all other weapons in existence. With great reluctance, Solus Prime agreed to forge the weapon for Megatronus, and even then only after Megatronus convinced other members of the Thirteen to petition her on his behalf as well. Even after the weapon was completed, Solus Prime showed great reluctance in allowing it to remain in existence. After demonstrating its awesome power to the Thirteen, she asked for a vote as to whether the Requiem Blaster should be destroyed. Megatronus led the group who voted in favor of retaining the Blaster, and they won by the slimmest of margins, 7-to-6.

At some later date, Megatronus killed Solus Prime in a fit of rage, and became the Fallen, forever more. The reason for the murder is not fully known at this point, although Solus did favor [[Nexus Prime]] over others in the Thirteen, a fact that had stirred jealousy in Megatronus in the past. Though a terrible thing, Vector Prime considered the Fallen lashing out in a moment of anger forgivable over Liege Maximo's active plotting. {{storylink|Transformers: Exiles|Exiles}}

Megatron, who took his name to inspire fear, took a favorable view of the Fallen, considering him the one member of the Thirteen who refused to bow down to the others, and the only Prime who sought his own destiny. {{storylink|Transformers: Exodus|Exodus}}

====''Prime'' cartoon====
[[File:OneShallRise1-WellofAllSparks.jpg|right|thumb|upright=1.67|Dum de dum, not thinking about demons...]]

According to legend, at the beginning of time, Unicron and Primus battled each other for eons, with neither side remaining victorious for long. Until, that is, Primus created the [[Thirteen]]. These Thirteen defeated Unicron and cast him into space. {{storylink|One Shall Rise, Part 1}} At some point statues of Megatronus and his brothers were made. They were placed in the chamber of the High Council. A [[Megatron (WFC)|gladiator]] would also name himself after Megatronus before shortening his name to simply "Megatron". {{storylink|One Shall Rise, Part 3}}

When [[Starscream (WFC)|Starscream]] proclaimed to Optimus Prime that he wished to change sides, [[Bulkhead (Prime)|Bulkhead]] sarcastically claimed that he had been [[Cybertronian sport#Lobbing|lobbing]] with the Fallen. {{storylink|Partners (Prime)|Partners}}
{{--}}

====2015 ''Robots in Disguise'' cartoon====
{{voiceactor|[[Gil Gerard]] (English), [[Fumihiko Tachiki]] (Japanese)|[[Klaus Lochthove]] (German), [[Salvador Reyes]] (Latin American-Spanish), [[Martin Spinhayer]] (French), [[Ferenc Borbiczki]] (Hungarian), [[Antônio Moreno]] (Brazilian Portuguese)}}
[[file:RID-phantommegatronus.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.1|"You will bow down before me, Jor-El! I swear it!"]]
In the distant past, Megatronus killed Solus Prime. {{storylink|Battlegrounds, Part 2}} He was eventually imprisoned in another dimension, and held both [[Earth]] and Cybertron responsible for his defeat. {{storylink|Battlegrounds, Part 1}} He maintained a degree of agency over the events in this world, and he was able to influence events so that the prison ship ''[[Alchemor (RID)|Alchemor]]'' crash-landed on Earth, releasing its cargo of [[Decepticon]] convicts in the process. From there, Megatronus bided his time. Eventually, he contacted the Decepticon revolutionary [[Steeljaw (RID)|Steeljaw]], who had just suffered a humiliating rout at the hands of [[Bumblebee (WFC)|Bumblebee]]'s [[Autobot]]s. Introducing himself as "the first Decepticon", Megatronus struck a bargain with Steeljaw: if Steeljaw helped free him from his prison, Megatronus would let Steeljaw and his gang have the Earth. Steeljaw reluctantly agreed. {{storylink|Lockout}}

[[File:RID-Megatronus.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|caption|Kitty ears of DOOM.]]

Megatronus interrupted Steeljaw while the latter was scheming, demanding to know if they had made progress on the device that would allow him to escape. Steeljaw retorted that he needed more Decepticons to help him with the task, but Megatronus was less than moved, using his telekinetic powers to make [[Clampdown (RID)|Clampdown]] pull on his arm hard until Steeljaw capitulated. Megatronus informed his new servant that the device would require a mass of sufficient metal to anchor the energies generated by his arrival- namely, the [[Crown City Colossus]]. Although the Autobots, accompanied with a reborn [[Optimus Prime (WFC)|Optimus Prime]], attempted to intervene, their efforts weren't enough to stop Steeljaw from activating the portal. A triumphant Megatronus materialized, ready to carry out his plan. {{storylink|Battlegrounds, Part 1}}

[[File:Battlegrounds2-Megatronus.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.4|"I'll show you the dark side."<br>"You may try, but you cannot deny the truth that is your family."<br>"You're so right."]]

Megatronus moved to attack the weakened Autobots, but was intercepted by Optimus, and the two began dueling. Megatronus gained the upper hand and managed to slash at Optimus, knocking him into the water and temporarily taking him out of the fight. Megatronus retieved his fallen [[Spark fuser]] and activated it, intending to draw the remnants of [[Unicron]]'s anti-[[spark]] from the Earth's core and merge it with the AllSpark, destroying both Earth and Cybertron. When Steeljaw realized this, Megatronus retorted that he had never technically lied to him about his right to own Earth... or whatever would be left of it. Megatronus restrained the furious Steeljaw with his telekinesis and opened a rift in the sky.

[[File:RID-megatronustank.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|Megatronus deploys his dreaded drill-nipples.]]

Fighting Steeljaw distracted Megatronus long enough for Bumblebee to resuscitate Optimus, and the two Autobot leaders moved in to finish him off after Megatronus hurled Steeljaw away. While Optimus once again dueled with Megatronus, Bumblebee, [[Strongarm (RID)|Strongarm]], and [[Sideswipe (RID)|Sideswipe]] used their [[Decepticon Hunter]]s to power themselves up. Optimus managed to shatter Megatronus's Spark fuser, closing the rift and ruining his plan. Furious, Megatronus redoubled his attack. [[Drift (RID)|Drift]] helped to drop part of the Colossus on Megatronus. The weight of the statue was enough that Bumblebee's team could blast him with a sustained burst of energy, disintegrating his body and seemingly destroying him, though Bumblebee questioned if he truly was destroyed. {{storylink|Battlegrounds, Part 2}}
{{-}}

====IDW ''Robots in Disguise'' comic====
In later happier times, Bumblebee recalled the events of their battle against Megatronus. {{storylink|Robots in Disguise issue 5|Robots in Disguise #5}}

====''Adventure'' toy bios====
On the moment of Megatronus's defeat at the hands of Bumblebee's team, an evil presence emanated from his wounds and resonated with [[Nemesis Prime (RID)|Nemesis Prime]], powering him up into a new form. {{storylink|Nemesis Prime (RID)#TAV56|Nemesis Prime bio}}

===''Kre-O'' online comic===
[[File:Kreo fallen skybyte.JPG|left|thumb|upright=1]]
When [[Predaking (G1)|Predaking]] attacked [[Metroplex (G1)|Autobot City]], the Fallen stood next to [[Sky-Byte (RID)|Gelshark]]. {{storylink|Behemoth Combination! But They're Cute? The Predacon Unit}}
{{-}}

===''Cyberverse'' cartoon===
Megatronus was one of the [[Thirteen]], {{storylink|Dweller In The Depths (Cyberverse)|Dweller In The Depths}} {{storylink|Silent Strike}} {{storylink|The Other One}} Cybertronians being known to swear by his name in times of shock. {{storylink|The Extinction Event}} {{storylink|The Immobilizers}}

After gaining control of the AllSpark, [[Starscream (Cyberverse)|Starscream]] believed he had pulled Megatronus's spark back to the world of the living and implanted it into one of his "[[scraplet|children]]", though some questioned the legitimacy of his claims. {{storylink|Parley}}

===[[Energon Universe]]===
When [[humans]] began to attack [[Optimus Prime (G1)#Energon Universe|Optimus Prime]] even after he helped them, [[Skywarp (G1)#Energon Universe|Skywarp]] exlcaimed "By The Fallen's [[Spark|soul]] these people are stupid and so are you!"{{storylink|Transformers (2023) issue 4|Transformers #4}}

===''One'' film===
{{spoiler|Transformers One (film)|October 20, 2024}}
[[File:One-Megatronus-Prime.jpg|thumb|[[Fandom|You guys]] complain I died too easily but hey, at least my face is still perfectly intact! [[:File:TheFallen-ROTFfacegotten.jpg|Unlike that of my predecessor...]]]]
A member of the [[Thirteen|Primes]], Megatronus Prime was the strongest and largest of them all. He and the other Primes participated in the war against the [[Quintesson]]s. At a critical point in the war, the Primes, including Megatronus, moved to intercept a Quintesson high command meeting following a report from [[Sentinel Prime (One)|Sentinel]], unaware that the aide had led them into a trap to be ambushed. Megatronus fought bravely against the Quintesson horde alongside his siblings, almost emerging victorious until Sentinel revealed his treachery and killed several of the Primes himself. Overpowered and subdued by his enemies, Megatronus was personally beheaded by a grandstanding Sentinel, who took Megatronus' [[transformation cog]] for himself after failing to obtain the [[Matrix of Leadership]].

Megatronus was widely known as a heroic figure after his death, and [[merchandise]] was made of him including [[sticker]]s of various rarity. The miner [[Megatron (One)|D-16]] idolized Megatronus the most out of all the Primes for his mighty power, eagerly accepting when his friend [[Optimus Prime (One)|Orion Pax]] gave him a rare sticker based on Megatronus's face. D-16 proudly wore the sticker on his shoulder, though it continued to sustain damage as he got involved in a mining accident, the [[Iacon 5000]], and a dangerous adventure to the surface alongside Orion, [[Bumblebee (One)|B-127]], and [[Elita-1 (One)|Elita-1]]. When D-16 was captured and taken to Sentinel's tower, the false Prime mocked him for his hero worship, revealing his possession of Megatronus's cog to D-16 and painfully scoring a crude rendition of Megatronus' face into the captive miner's chest. The sticker was destroyed in the process. After being freed by a coordinated assault by Orion, Elita, and the [[High Guard]], D-16 killed the false Prime and ripped the cog from Sentinel's chest, installing it into his own and discarding the one he had previously received from [[Alpha Trion (One)|Alpha Trion]]. As he did so, he renamed himself "Megatron" after his hero and idol. This powerful cog granted Megatron new upgrades such as a triple-barrel rapid-fire [[fusion cannon]], an arm-mounted [[machine gun]] on his left arm, and additional armor.

Later, after being exiled from [[Iacon (polity)|Iacon]] by the newly christened [[Optimus Prime (One)|Optimus Prime]], Megatron fashioned a new [[insignia]] based on Megatronus Prime's face and branded it onto himself and his followers, officially forming the [[Decepticon]]s. {{storylink|Transformers One (film)|One}}

==Games==
===''Transformers: Battle for the Matrix''===
{{Note|Battle for the Matrix is a simplified retelling of the events of ''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen]]''. It can be played from the perspective of either Bumblebee or Optimus Prime. The final battle is against Megatron and the Fallen at the [[Star Harvester]].}}

[[File:The Fallen battleforthematrix.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.1|Behind you!]]

The Fallen tried to defend the Sun Harvester from some Autobot attackers. {{storylink|Transformers: Battle for the Matrix}}
{{--}}

===''Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen'' - The Game===
{{voiceactor|[[James Arnold Taylor]] (English)|[[Sylvain Lemarié]] (French), [[Luis Fernando Ríos]] (Castilian Spanish)}}

[[File:ROTF 360PS3PC TheFallen.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|I shall light this holy ring, release its cleansing flame, and burn a path into the divine beyond!!! ...Wait, what game is this again?]]

====Xbox 360/PS3/PC====
=====Decepticon campaign=====
With Optimus Prime seemingly defeated, The Fallen and the Decepticons journeyed to Egypt, where he uncovered the Star Harvester from inside the Great Pyramid of Giza and commenced his plans to destroy the Sun. However, the last of the Primes had survived his battle with Megatron and now revealed to the enraged Decepticon leader that The Fallen had betrayed him. The Fallen's promise to Megatron that he would make his student a Prime would never be fulfilled, as Primes were born, not made. Megatron demanded what he had been promised, but the Fallen, disgusted with the creature that he no longer needed, attacked. Righteous indignation fueled Megatron through this battle, and ultimately, he ended The Fallen's mastery over the Decepticons by impaling him through his head and letting the corpse fall into the depths of the Star Harvester. {{storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)}}

=====Autobot campaign=====
Optimus Prime had survived his battle with Megatron and merged with the parts of Jetfire, and now this new, powered-up form faced the might of The Fallen at the Great Pyramid. Optimus's ancestor mocked this young upstart who dared to face his elder, telekinetically throwing debris at the Autobot, summoning great bursts of energy from the ground, and unleashing an army of Decepticon drones. However, Optimus Prime's new armour more than enabled him to survive this onslaught, and as he rained energy slugs into The Fallen, the ancient Cybertronian called out to Megatron for help, but to no avail, for his student had since learned of The Fallen's treachery. Optimus ended The Fallen's reign of terror by impaling him through his head and letting the corpse fall into the depths of the Star Harvester. {{storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)}}

====PSP====
{{charstubgame|{{storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (PSP)}}}}
{{-}}

===''Transformers Autobots''/''Decepticons''===
====''Autobots''====
The Fallen was the true leader of the Decepticons, orchestrating Megatron's resurrection. While the new recruit fought Megatron, The Fallen was defeated by Optimus Prime and Jetfire.

====''Decepticons''====
The Fallen was still the true leader of the Decepticons despite Starscream having taken ''de facto'' command after Megatron's death. When the new recruit arrived, Grindor and Sideways made no bones to him about how The Fallen was really the one calling the shots, and that they'd soon get Megatron back. The recruit would be introduced to The Fallen during the hunt for the Matrix and the Harvester. Things came to a head in a battle in Egypt, where the recruit presented the Matrix to The Fallen. The overlord was pleased by his performance and code of loyalty, complaining that other Decepticons didn't share it while throwing a big fat side glance at his other henchmen present. This caused Starscream to tease Megatron that his job as Decepticon leader was in jeopardy.

The Fallen sent the recruit to wipe out most of the remaining Autobots to pave the way for their final plan in what was likely a final test for his new position, and sure enough, the recruit succeeded and even killed Optimus Prime. Megatron was horrified since he was supposed to be the one to kill Optimus, and The Fallen snarked that he obviously didn't. Noting that his apprentice had been outperformed by a Decepticon who was merely a lowly foot soldier, The Fallen announced some role changes: the recruit would now replace Megatron as Decepticon leader and his apprentice, with Megatron now being just a lowly foot soldier in his place. The Fallen congratulated the recruit, and with his new apprentice by his side, activated the Harvester, claimed the resultant Energon, and prepared to engage in a universe-wide campaign of conquest, now that Earth, humanity, and the Autobots had been destroyed. {{storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen: Autobots/Decepticons|Revenge of the Fallen: Autobots/Decepticons}}

===''Revenge of the Fallen'' mobile game===
The Fallen sent [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] and some Decepticon forces to [[Shanghai]] to retrieve a fragment of the [[AllSpark]]. Starscream returned successful, and The Fallen sent him to NEST HQ as a diversion. The Fallen himself used the AllSpark shard to resurrect [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]] as part of the ongoing plan to gain possession of the [[Matrix of Leadership]] so they could reactivate the "[[Star Harvester|Great Machine]]". The Fallen sent Megatron to [[Egypt]], but when the other Decepticons fell, he himself put in an appearance. The Fallen was confident that [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] had worn himself out fighting Megatron, however Optimus channeled the power of the Matrix into a single blast, destroying The Fallen. {{storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (Glu)}}

====Wii/PS2====
{{charstubgame|{{storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (Wii/PS2)}}}}

===''Robots in Disguise'' mobile game===
<center>
{|class="wikitable"border="5"style="width:65%"
|-
!scope="col"width="30%"|'''Version'''
!style="background:#00CCFF;color:black"scope="col"width="35%"|'''Unlock Cost (Energon)'''
!style="background:#BF00FF;color:white"scope="col"width="35%"|'''Unlock Cost (Ultra Sparks)'''
|-
|Starter
|500
|10
|-
|Legion
|1500
|30
|-
|Warrior
|4000
|80
|-
|Warrior Elite
|4000
|80
|-
|Ultra
|8000
|140
|}
</center>

<gallery>
File:TF-RID2015-Mobage-Legion-Megatronus.jpg
File:TF-RID2015-Mobage-Warrior-Megatronus.jpg
File:TF-RID2015-Mobage-Warrior-Elite-Megatronus.jpg
File:TF-RID2015-Mobage-Ultra-Megatronus.jpg
</gallery>

Megatronus was among the many Decepticons available to repel an Insecticon invasion. {{storylink|Transformers: Robots in Disguise (mobile game)|Robots in Disguise}}

===''Splatoon''===
[[Squid Sisters|Marie]] considered Megatronus among the coolest of the Decepticons. {{storylink|Splatoon}}

===''Transformers: Forged to Fight''===
[[File:ForgedToFight-Megatronus.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|Megatronus after hitting the jackpot through watching ''Sushi Girl''.]]

One of the original Thirteen Primes created by Primus to combat Unicron, Megatronus betrayed his fellow Primes in his quest for power, leading to his banishment.<ref>[https://transformersforgedtofight.com/bot-intel-report-megatronus/ Bot Intel Report - Megatronous]</ref> He returned in the present day on [[New Quintessa]] to trouble the Cybertronians marooned on the strange planet.

In an attempt by Megatronus to take the power of the dormant [[Quintessa (IDW)|Necrotitan]], their sparks merged to become [[Necrotronus]]. {{storylink|Transformers: Forged to Fight}}

===''Transformers: Earth Wars''===
Megatronus corrupted Rodimus Prime, which [[Reformatting|reformatted]] him into Rodimus Unicronus.{{storylink|Transformers: Earth Wars|Rodimus Unicronus bio}} Inside of his mind, when Rodimus Prime was talking to Rodimus Unicronus, he wasn't sure if he was speaking to Unicron or Megatronus.{{storylink|Transformers: Earth Wars|Rodimus Unicronus story}}
{{--}}

==Toys==
{{main|The Fallen/toys}}

==Notes==
===Generation 1===
[[File:Fallenpatlee.jpg|thumb|upright=0.85|I'm The Fallen, and I can't get up!]]
*The Fallen was created by [[Simon Furman]] for [[Dreamwave Productions]]' ''[[Transformers: War Within: The Dark Ages|War Within: The Dark Ages]]'' comic book. Furman used him to recycle some of the plans he had for the [[Last Autobot]] in the [[The Transformers (Marvel comic)|original Marvel comic]], but which he was unable to use as a result of the comic's cancellation.<ref>[http://www.camphortree.net/tf/tidbits/otfcc2004.txt OTFCC 2004 convention report]</ref>
*The Fallen design was created by [[Pat Lee]], his first (and only) original Transformers character. The early design concept differed incredibly from the final product, noticeably lacking The Fallen's characteristic mouthplate. He was envisioned as a medieval, ancient-looking Transformer who glowed like a furnace, but he was not depicted as being perpetually on fire until [[Andrew Wildman]] penciled his appearances in ''The Dark Ages'' and the colorists caught on. When questioned about him constantly being aflame, Furman responded that they went with it "because it looks cool."
[[File:Thefallentank.jpg|thumb|upright=0.85|The Judasmobile.]]
*Though Lee designed a tank alternate mode for The Fallen, which was shown in the profile series ''[[Transformers: More than Meets the Eye|More than Meets the Eye]]'', it was never used in-fiction. Similarly, The Fallen is said to have ''no'' alternate mode in IDW's ''Revenge of the Fallen'' comics, and he does not actually transform in the film or the ''Prime Wars Trilogy'' cartoons.
*Very little of The Fallen's backstory was given in his first fictional appearances, leaving much of ''The Dark Ages'' somewhat confusing on its own. Helpful inserts from ''More Than Meets The Eye'' and Dorling Kindersley's ''[[Transformers: The Ultimate Guide]]'', published around the same time, spelled out more. Eventually, the packaging profile printed on his Titanium figure gave the rest. Oh, and then years later, he was the titular villain of a summer blockbuster film.
*The proper treatment of his name, with its capital-T "The", is established both in the comics and the ''Ultimate Guide''. The one dissenting source is his on-package [[bio]], which simply calls him "'''Fallen'''" (as in, "'''Fallen''' forgot his real name long ago"). The reason for this awkward treatment is unknown, though the usual culprits behind toy-name oddities—[[trademark]] issues—are suspected.
*The Fallen can speak Spanish.<ref>Fanclub-exclusive Mini Mayhem strip, March 19, 2007</ref>
[[File:TFGenerations2014 Rejected TheFallen.jpg|thumb|upright=0.85]]
*The Fallen's appearance in the ''Train Wars'' manga is based on a mock-up created for a [[Fan polls#Generations Magazine Exclusive Character Popularity Vote|poll]] in ''[[Transformers Generations 2014 Volume 1]]'', one of ten potential exclusives for Vol. 2. A redeco of ''[[Transformers: Generations (toyline)|Generations]]'' [[Onslaught (WFC)#Generations|Onslaught]], it would have featured the [[Ruination (FOC)|Ruination]] head in combiner mode, which would have been making its Japanese market debut. Ultimately, the Fallen only claimed 5% of the votes.<ref>[http://millionhero.sblo.jp/article/101898683.html Poll results at Hero-X]</ref>
*In the [[2005 IDW continuity]], Megatronus's design is based on his Aligned incarnation, like the other members of the Thirteen.
*Megatronus was again redesigned for the ''Prime Wars Trilogy'' cartoons, amalgamating elements of his incarnations from the Aligned continuity (enlarged shoulders, fusion cannons), ''Revenge of the Fallen'' (glowing red accents, an Egyptian-crown-like head) and Dreamwave (his blocky shape, lots of fire). This design would reappear in ''Forged to Fight'', which also revealed his alternate mode to be a Cybertronian jet like his movie counterpart.
* [[Jason Marnocha]] had provided the scratch track recording voice for Megatronus in the Prime Wars Trilogy before [[Mark Hamill]] was cast in the role.

===''Revenge of the Fallen''===
[[File:TheFallen-ROTFstaff.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|Give him the stick! Don't give him the stick!]]

* Michael Bay attempted to hide The Fallen's involvement in ''Revenge of the Fallen'', going so far as to claim that statements made by Simon Furman at [[San Diego Comic-Con]] 2008<ref>[http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=17412 Simon Furman confirms The Fallen is a character in an interview with Comic Book Resources (Fallen details removed)]</ref> and [[Chris Mowry]] in an interview with MTV Splash Page <ref>[http://splashpage.mtv.com/2008/07/28/exclusive-transformers-2-prequel-comic-gives-inside-scoop-on-2009-movie/ MTV Splash Page interviews Chris Mowry (Fallen details removed)]</ref> were part of a disinformation campaign, and that only a small number of people had seen the script.<ref>[http://www.shootfortheedit.com/forum/showpost.php?p=44729&postcount=2 A post made by Michael Bay on his forum]</ref> On August 5, 2008, after a fan posted on Michael Bay's forum pointing out that several IDW representatives had said they had the script, all references to The Fallen were removed from the aforementioned interviews, as well as any references to IDW Publishing having the script.
* Voice actor [[James Arnold Taylor]] was originally cast as The Fallen in the film version of ''Revenge of the Fallen'' (which led to him getting the same role in ''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)|Revenge of the Fallen: The Game]]''), but was replaced by [[Tony Todd]] in the final edit of the film, to his disappointment. [[Leonard Nimoy]] was also considered for the role, but did not get it on the basis Bay feared Nimoy would have been paid too little money.{{fact}}
* The Fallen's "Command Staff" (also known as the "[[Void Scepter]]"<ref>[http://www2.hasbro.com/transformers/en_US/discover/cybertronian-database.cfm#/characters/the-fallen The Fallen's bio at Hasbro.com]</ref>) seemed to be a later addition to the film, as the staff made no appearances in secondary fiction, and was not included with The Fallen's original toy releases. The [[The Fallen/toys#TF2010Voyager|later Voyager Class figure]] includes said staff, and the toy's hands were retooled to be able to hold it.
* [[Paul Ozzimo]] and [[Josh Nizzi]] designed Earth modes for The Fallen to take on in ''Revenge of the Fallen'', but like many of the Decepticons he does not assume one in the finished film. Ozzimo clarified on his website he was to turn into an {{w|Aurora (aircraft)|Aurora}} stealth bomber, the alleged modern replacement for the [[Jetfire (Movie)|SR-71 Blackbird]].
* Various on-package [[Hasbro]] [[bio]]s for The Fallen in the ''Revenge of the Fallen'' toyline utilize the derogatory term "flesh slugs" for humanity; the term originally appeared in the same manner in the 1980s ''[[Inhumanoids]]'' cartoon, based on another toyline by Hasbro.
* The Fallen was originally going to be ''huge'' in ''Revenge of the Fallen'': the novelization describes him as making Optimus look like an infant, and ''Defiance'' issue 4 depicts him as about the size of a pyramid. In the finished film, The Fallen is only slightly bigger than Optimus and Megatron, and ''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen: The Movie Universe]]'' clarifies he is 42 feet tall.
* Michael Bay doesn't actually like The Fallen, calling him "kind of a (expletive) character".<ref>[http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2010-06-11-Transformers11_ST_N.htm?csp=usat.me USA Today, "Next 'Transformers' is due for a switch"]</ref>
* In early drafts of ''Revenge of the Fallen'', The Fallen doesn't appear in person until the climax, communicating with Megatron aboard the ''Nemesis'' via an interdimensional window. This led to the [[sarcophagus]] storyline in the comics, where only discovering the harvester's location would free him. When dropped from the film to give the character more screen time, it led to a massive plot hole in the comic storyline that was only resolved two years later by [[John Barber]] in ''[[Transformers: Convergence|Convergence]]''.
* The Fallen's design—at least in the early stages of development—appears to be heavily inspired by Egyptian {{w|pharaoh}}s and their attire, which is most noticeable on his [[The Fallen/toys#Voyager Class toys|original Voyager Class toy]] (which was based on early concept art), as it sports a [[Facial hair|goatee]] not unlike the long, fake metal goatees pharaohs like King {{w|Tutankhamun}} wore; as well as his spiky bearded parts somewhat resembling {{w|Nemes}}, which are the striped-cloth headdresses that pharaohs wore. Given both the film's central location being Egypt, and the Egyptian hieroglyph-styled packaging for the toyline, the inspiration makes sense.
** The aforementioned sarcophagus plotline from the IDW comics also adds another layer of Egyptian inspiration into the mix.
** The Fallen's face is also a highly stylized Decepticon [[insignia]] in both early concept art and the final CGI model. While it isn't as prominent a Decepticon insignia as [[Tarn (G1)|IDW Tarn]]'s mask is with the points and everything poking up off the top of his head, the design elements are still there, you just have to look a little harder to notice them.

===Aligned===
*Until the ''Robots in Disguise'' cartoon introduced Megatronus as the "first Decepticon" (an idea taken from the live-action Fallen), the Aligned version of the character had no direct connection to the Decepticons in his backstory. He has, however, always had a helmet shaped like their insignia, an idea that also comes from the live-action film character.
*Megatronus's cartoon robot mode is a mishmash of his prior incarnations. He has the general blockiness and tank vehicle mode from the ''[[War Within (comic)|War Within]]'' comics, and his four-lined visor resembles the slots on that Fallen's faceplate. In addition to his status as "the first Decepticon" and his Decepticon-insignia-shaped helmet, he also features the movie character's telekinetic powers and similar forearm [[kibble]], though said kibble is actually put to use as [[fusion cannon]]-like arm weapons.
*Despite not appearing again after the first-season finale of ''Robots in Disguise'', [[Adam Beechen]] stated in a deleted blog that he survived his apparent destruction but left his fate beyond that in the air.

===Fun Publications===
* The Evil One was originally a one-off character from the ''Challenge of the GoBots'' episode "[[gbwiki:In Search of Ancient GoBonauts|In Search of Ancient GoBonauts]]", where [[Cy-Kill (GoBots)|Cy-Kill]] was looking for the ancient villain, who'd hidden a weapon of great power underneath an ancient pyramid. The idea that the Evil One could be an alternate-universe equivalent of The Fallen was inspired by [https://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=The_Fallen&oldid=685238 an edit] of this very page back in 2012, which noted the episode's coincidential similarities to ''Revenge of the Fallen''.<ref>[https://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/129168-out-of-printhard-to-find-media-mega-thread/page-9#entry3440904 Post by Verity Carlo on the Allspark Forums, 2017/02/12]</ref>

===Foreign names===
====The Fallen====
*''Japanese:'' '''The Fallen''' (ザ・フォールン ''Za Fōrun'')
*''Mandarin:'' '''Duòluò Jīngāng''' (堕落金刚, "Corrupted Vajra")

====Megatronus====
*''Japanese:'' '''Megatronus''' (メガトロナス ''Megatoronasu'')
*''Mandarin:'' '''Zhèn Tiān Zūn''' (震天尊, "Majesty Shocking the Heaven")

==External links==
{{GBwiki|Evil One}}

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

{{Thirteen}}
{{DEFAULTSORT:Fallen}}
[[Category:Cyberverse Transformers]]
[[Category:Decepticon leaders]]
[[Category:Dreamwave Generation 1 Transformers]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Transformers]]
[[Category:IDW (2005) Transformers]]
[[Category:Matrix bearers]]
[[Category:One Transformers]]
[[Category:Prime Transformers]]
[[Category:Renegades]]
[[Category:Revenge of the Fallen Decepticons]]
[[Category:Robots in Disguise (2015) Decepticons]]
[[Category:Thirteen]]
[[Category:Unicron-related characters]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron characters]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Earthrise characters]]

The Fallen

2024-10-02T20:58:52Z

Jasenomous TF:

{{factions|{{factions/icons
|custom=Fallen faction symbol.png
|cSize=40x40px
|cLink=The Fallen
|cPretty=
}}|{{factions/icons
|custom=PotP-Megatronus.png
|cSize=40x40px
|cLink=The Fallen
|cPretty=Megatronus
}}|decepticon|unicron|{{factions/icons|custom=Cyberglyphics Prime Symbol.png|cLink=Dynasty of Primes|cPretty=Prime}}|renegade|hofsilver}}
{{featured}}
{{suite}}
{{disambigm|Fallen (episode)|Megatronus (disambiguation)}}

[[File:HeatScramble-TheFallen.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|The levitation trick gets The Fallen all The Ladies at parties.]]

If the [[Thirteen|first Transformers]] were [[Primus]]'s disciples, then '''The Fallen''' is his Judas. At the dawn of time, he was '''Megatronus''', one of a brotherhood of vastly powerful beings dedicated to the well-being of their world. But The Fallen would gain his current moniker by turning against his brother [[Prime (rank)|Prime]]s and his purpose to pursue his own ends, also earning the moniker "the first Decepticon" in the process. His frightening form is a metal cage for primal, burning forces of [[Unicron|chaos]], giving him the appearance of a living furnace. These cauldron-like forces purged him of what empathy and morality remained; all that remains now is hatred and purest rage.

The Fallen is immensely powerful. He commands mystic, entropic arts, and when at full strength he can un-make creation at his focused will. He is rarely defeated; at best he is contained, where he waits with eternal patience for the chance to unleash his dark powers once again. Though he has at times been imprisoned between dimensions, this rarely lasts. When his power is at its height, The Fallen can open [[space bridge]]s and travel between dimensions and realities at will.

Like his brothers, The Fallen was once a [[multiversal singularity]], meaning that in all of the vast [[multiverse]], he had no alternate-universe doppelganger, but that is now [[Shroud|no longer the case]]. In several realities he is the originator of the [[Decepticon]]s, the catalyst that prompted [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]] to claim power for himself rather than the greater good. While the exact details of his past are complicated beyond the understanding of mortals,<ref>See [[Hasbro Q&A/July 2009: Answers|Hasbro Q&A/July 2009: Answer #3]] for more information.</ref> one thing remains consistent: he's bad, bad news.

{{bigquote|You... you're from ''before''. Aren't you?|[[Jetfire (G1)|Jetfire]] on The Fallen|"[[Confrontation (issue)|Confrontation]]"}}

==Fiction==
===Generation 1 continuity family===
====Dreamwave ''Generation One'' continuity====
[[File:Thefallen.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.1|Ah, you know it's funny, these people, they go to sleep, they think everything's fine, everything's good... They wake up the next day and they're on fire.]]

When Primus and Unicron first battled as planets, Primus created the first 13 Transformers to assist him in planet mode. The Fallen's original purpose as one of the 13 was to oversee entropy, the orderly dissolution of all things in preparation for the next creation. But the concept of destruction fascinated him too much, and he lost sight of the goal of rebirth and the necessity of restraint. His investigations into the dark sciences led him to Unicron, to whom he gave himself.<ref>[http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/toys/titanium/the-fallen/1126/2/9/ Fallen's ''Titanium Series'' on-package bio]</ref> Corrupted by Unicron, the Fallen then tried to sabotage his creator's body. This attempt ended in failure, and "The Fallen" fled to his master, but there was little refuge to be found: They were both sucked into a [[black hole]]. {{storylink|Transformers: The Ultimate Guide}}

Approximately 7 million years before the 21st century, [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] and [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] were lost in a [[space bridge]] accident. This accident weakened the barrier between reality and [[unspace|the dimension]] in which The Fallen was trapped, allowing The Fallen to eventually break free and return to Cybertron. The Fallen set about initiating the "[[Unbinding]]", to precipitate the return of Unicron, and spent years, if not millennia, subtly manipulating the Autobots and Decepticons, causing them to splinter into multiple sub-factions that engaged in a constant series of escalating conflicts.

[[File:Thefallenseeksfour.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|Hey, The Fallen, ever heard of Tums?]]

As the time for the Unbinding drew near, the Fallen recruited a [[Chaos Trinity|trio of Decepticon outcasts]], [[Bludgeon (G1)|Bludgeon]], [[Mindwipe (G1)|Mindwipe]], and [[Bugly (G1)|Bugly]], who hungered for a command of [[Dark science|the occult]]. The Fallen promised them all manner of dark powers in exchange for serving him. Leading his three followers to the [[Well of All Sparks]], hidden within Cybertron, he explained that the Unbinding required four particular Transformers, who would function as "angles in the geometry of dissolution", and named [[Grimlock (G1)|Grimlock]] as the first. {{storylink|Fragmentation (G1)|Fragmentation}}

The Fallen and company proceeded to construct a strange machine within the Well of All Sparks in preparation for the Unbinding. Unfortunately, Bludgeon and friends got impatient for more than The Fallen's praise and demanded a more tangible reward: the arcane power he had promised them. The Fallen responded by grabbing Bludgeon's head and giving him a mere glimpse of what he sought: images of a fiery vortex, demonic faces, stabbing swords and a human skull engulfed Bludgeon. The Fallen stated that this was but a peek inside a dark door he would fully open if they served him well. This left Bludgeon suitably inspired to begin hunting down their targets.

[[File:Thefallengrimlock.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.1|Someone should tell Grimlock this more often.]]

Bugly and Mindwipe leaked information to draw the [[Protectobot (G1)|Protectobots]] out into combat with [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]], while Bludgeon hatched a plot to snare both Grimlock and [[Jetfire (G1)|Jetfire]]. {{storylink|Escalation}} Bludgeon, Bugly, and Mindwipe ambushed Jetfire as he attempted a cross-faction meeting with [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]]. When Grimlock crashed the party earlier than they expected, however, The Fallen himself had to intervene and caught Grimlock's blazing energo-sword in his bare hand. {{storylink|Revelation (The Dark Ages)|Revelation}}

Grimlock took one punch from The Fallen yet still got back up, so The Fallen grabbed him by the shoulders and unleashed a huge blast of energy that put the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobot]] leader out cold. Shocked by the display, Jetfire surmised that The Fallen predated the Golden Age. The Fallen responded by knocking Jetfire out cold too. He then dragged Grimlock and Jetfire away and commanded his followers to gather the third angle, while he handled the fourth. The Fallen singlehandedly abducted [[Blitzwing (G1)|Blitzwing]] from his well-guarded holding cell in Autobot headquarters, shrugging off attacks by some of the Autobots' best warriors and causing their weapons to corrode away into uselessness with a mere gesture. Bludgeon's team, meanwhile, succeeded in acquiring [[Hot Spot (G1)|Hot Spot]] from the Protectobots.

[[File:Fallenmoreonfire.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|The Fallen somehow sets himself ''more on fire''.]]

All four angles were strapped to the device in the Well of All Sparks. The Fallen theatrically explained to the awakening Jetfire that they were casualties in the war of the Gods, and would be used to break the Seal of Primus, after which "all chaos will follow". {{storylink|Confrontation (issue)|Confrontation}}

The Fallen continued his villainous monologue, apparently directing it not at Jetfire but at Primus himself, as the four Transformers' unique sparks were drained to unlock the Seal of Primus. A combined army of forces from several factions defeated the Chaos Trinity and penetrated The Fallen's operation. By the time they reached the door, The Fallen was satisfied that the Transformers were too late, until Jetfire arranged a force-field to surround the Seal. The Fallen was further impressed that Jetfire understood enough to try to contain the Seal, but his distraction cost him victory: the God of Light himself was subsequently roused from his slumber where he saw The Fallen. With a gesture of his radiant hand, Primus engulfed his wayward creation in a torrent of searing energy that was then sucked back into the Seal of Primus. {{storylink|Conflagration}}

{{Unreleased DW G1 comic}}
Shockwave broke the Seal for his cloning experiments, siphoning from within it the energy needed to create life. The Fallen's essence had then escaped and corrupted [[Sunstorm (G1)|Sunstorm]]. Following the clone's death, The Fallen's essence passed into Jetfire. Within visions, The Fallen attacked the Autobot over and over, while around them various key moments in Cybertron's history unfolded. Jetfire returned to reality as the Autobots were digging him free from the frozen prison he now found himself in. He was unable to warn them that The Fallen's essence had taken root in his spark as they broke through the ice holding him. {{storylink|The Enemy Within}}

====Japanese Generation 1 cartoon continuity====
=====Train Wars=====
[[File:TrainWars TheFallen.jpg|left|thumb|upright=2|The aftermath of when Queen Metallia claimed his Sun.]]

The Fallen staged an attack on Cybertron to steal [[Vector Sigma]], smashing his way through all Autobot resistance. The mega-computer managed to wrest itself free of the ancient villain's grip long enough to transform into its "[[Primus|Oracle]]" robot mode and lend its power to [[Overdrive]], who then used his powered-up [[Quantum Dial]] to bring forth reinforcements from time itself. The Fallen responded by summoning up troops of his own, who [[combiner|combined]] with him. {{storylink|Train Wars}} In his new combiner mode, The Fallen laid waste to the Autobots' multiversal reinforcements, impaling them on energy-blades. Recovering Vector Sigma, he began to integrate the computer into his body, but was fortunately distracted by [[Daniel Witwicky (G1)|Daniel Witwicky]] long enough for [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]] to arrive with more reinforcements, made up of all kinds of train Transformers. Daniel and his partner [[Shouki]] blasted Vector Sigma free, and [[Shūta Gō]] and [[Goshooter]] then ''kicked'' the computer like a soccer ball, straight into The Fallen's face. The dazed demi-god found himself bound in a [[Trainbot Omni-Car Joint|living chain made up of all the interlinked train Transformers]], leaving him immobilized and open for one final attack. Using the power of Vector Sigma, Shouki unlocked a new transformation, becoming the gigantic "Train Bazooka" weapon, which Shuta then fired at The Fallen, obliterating him. {{storylink|Train Wars 2}}

=====''Legends'' comic=====
[[Smokescreen (G1)|Smokescreen]] cheered on The Fallen in the battle against the opposition. {{storylink|The Road to Legends' Revival Chapter 4: LG-EX Big Powered Prologue Part One|LG-EX Big Powered Prologue Part One}}
{{-}}

====2005 IDW continuity====
{{first|[[The Crucible|''Transformers: Robots in Disguise'' #34]] (mentioned); [[Heavy|''Transformers: Till All Are One'' #9]] (depicted)}}

[[File:TheFirstWhoWasNamed-MegatronusOrigins.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|"[[Darth Vader|What is thy bidding, my master?]]"]]

Twelve million years ago, in the primitive age that followed the departure of the [[Knights of Cybertron]], the 'bot who would become "Megatronus" was a humble nomad who wandered the deserts of prehistoric Cybertron alongside the shepherd [[Onyx Prime|Onyx]] and his flock of beasts. One day, the flock came across a badly damaged Transformer in the wastes—unbeknownst to any of them, this was [[Shockwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Shockwave]], who had been cast backwards in time following the destruction of his [[chronal drive]].

Having recognized the figures for who they would become, Shockwave slew Onyx without a moment's hesitation, sending his followers fleeing... all of them, that is, except one of Onyx's compatriots. Realizing that he could use his understanding of Cybertron's past to set the planet's history along the preordained course that he knew it must follow, Shockwave dubbed Onyx's terrified compatriot "Megatronus," naming him after [[Megatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|the Decepticon leader that would one day arise]]. Fashioning a new body for himself from Onyx's remains, Shockwave thus became "Onyx"; knowing from history that Megatronus's conquests would lead to the eventual unification of Cybertron, "Onyx Prime" trained Megatronus in the ways of war and deliberately inspired him to build an empire of his own.

His tutelage complete, Shockwave set Megatronus on the lands to the west, and Shockwave's pupil soon established a kingdom that became known as the "[[Darklands]]". As his power and influence grew over the course of his campaigns, Megatronus became a feared warrior and tyrant, and took to calling himself "The First Who Was Named." {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}}

[[File:OriginMyths-Megatronuskillspeople.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.4|"[[Megatron (Movie)|You still fight for the '''weak!''' That is why you '''lose!'''"]]]]

Late into his conquests, Megatronus marched on neighboring [[Protihex|Protohex]] and easily annexed it into the Darklands, overthrowing its ruler [[Septimus Prime]] and murdering his [[Supplicants of Arrius]]. There, he recruited the gladiator twins [[Arcee (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Arcee]] and [[Galvatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Galvatron]], who proved their loyalty to him by slaughtering their old master. The pair thus became the vanguards of the army as Megatronus continued their eastward advance, conquering the [[Forgotten Plains]], deposing [[Liege Maximo]], and giving them the opportunity to attack the humble village that would one day become the [[Crystal City]]. Unbeknownst to Megatronus, "Onyx Prime" and Liege Maximo had arrived beforehand and galvanized the local tribes into allying with his army of beasts to battle Megatronus - and, by doing so, deliberately providing the necessary impetus that would unite the scattered tribes of Cybertron into a single civilization. Megatronus fought on the front lines before three [[Titan (group)|Titans]], drawn to the sounds of battle, arose from the ground. Megatronus paused to look, giving Onyx the opening to fight his way through Megatronus's forces, meet with his old friend, and convince him to stand down. The two armies quickly ratified a proper truce, and Megatronus and his warriors joined the alliance of [[Prime (rank)|Prime]]s. {{storylink|Origin Myths}}

In the era that followed, the seven Primes were joined by five more, giving rise to the [[Thirteen]], who ruled over the [[Thirteen Tribes]]. Many of the Primes had grown arrogant, however, and began spreading rumors that only a Prime could kill another Prime so as to maintain their superiority over their followers. {{storylink|The Crucible}} At Onyx's urging, [[Prima]] began a program of interstellar expansion; aiming to spread [[Pax Cybertronia]] across the galaxy, he sent Megatronus, Onyx, Alpha Trion, [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]], and the [[Guardian robot|Omega Sentinels]] to lead an extraplanetary colonization mission to neighboring [[Antilla]], claiming that their deeds would spread the "enlightenment" of Cybertronian civilization to other worlds. The Cybertronian colonization force quickly encountered severe resistance from the Antillans; the devastating Antillan/Cybertronian war would end when an [[Unicron's creator|Antillan scientist]] deployed a [[Talisman (G1)|doomsday weapon]] that scoured all life on the planet, and the fallout from the war would ensure that the rest of the universe would come to fear the destructive power of the Transformers. {{storylink|Our Finest}} {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}}

[[File:TheFirstWhoWasNamed-MegatronusKillsSolus.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|"You're with '''HIM!!!''' You brought him here to kill me!"]]

Prima was enraged to learn that their benevolent mission had failed and blamed Megatronus for the disaster; when an insulted Megatronus was subsequently approached by Liege Maximo, the manipulative Prime stoked Megatronus's resentment and eventually brokered a secret alliance, a sequence of events that had been deliberately orchestrated by Shockwave so as to bring about the fall of the Primes as history had foretold. Megatronus and Liege Maximo sought to overthrow Prima, but in the ensuing struggle [[Solus Prime]] sacrificed her life to defend their leader, allowing Megatronus to run her through with her own [[Star Saber (Prima)|Star Saber]]. {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}} Their conspiracy unveiled, the grand alliance between the Primes collapsed and their followers fell to fighting amongst one another, heralding the beginning of the [[First Cybertronian Civil War]]. {{storylink|Heavy}} Megatronus subsequently fled the planet, leaving his co-conspirator to be imprisoned aboard his own [[Titan (group)|Titan]], [[Vigilem]]. {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}}

Without Megatronus leading his tribe, his empire collapsed and his followers went their own ways; Galvatron became notable for deserting his post in Megatronus's faltering army in order to wage a personal crusade against the [[Headmaster (technology)|Headmaster]]s of [[Nexus Prime]]. {{storylink|The Crucible}} {{storylink|Earthfall Part 3: The Mind Bomb|The Mind Bomb}} By the time that Galvatron hunted down and killed Nexus Prime, many of the remaining Primes had fled Cybertron entirely {{storylink|The Crucible}} and Megatronus had taken up residence on the barren world of [[Tsiehshi]], using its voltaic blooms to fuel his systems.

[[File:TheFirstWhoWasNamed-Megatronus.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.66|"I '''SMELL''' you, boy!"]]

Seeking to bring him to justice, Prima, Alpha Trion, and Onyx Prime left Cybertron to search for him aboard the Titan [[Emissary (IDW)|Emissary]]. They tracked him to Tsiehshi, where Prima and Onyx faced down the rogue Prime in a final duel; in the ensuing battle, Megatronus simply bisected Prima with his Star Saber. To ensure that the [[Matrix of Leadership]] in the sword's hilt would find its way to its [[Nova Prime|next owner]] when the time was right, however, Onyx coldly informed his student that his usefulness was at an end and murdered him, telling him that—thanks to the impending rise of Megatron—Cybertronians would, after a fashion, remember his name.

On returning to Alpha Trion, Onyx told the record-keeper the version of events that would find their way into the records of Cybertronian myth, lying that Prima had heroically slain Megatronus at the cost of his own life... a fabrication based on the stories that Shockwave had been told in his youth. {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}}

[[File:OP18-MegatronusDead.jpg|right|thumb|upright=1.5|"Who would you be without me, Prime?" "Time to find out."]]

Megatronus's name was stricken from the Cybertronian records for his crimes, and on both Cybertron and its colony worlds he was only remembered as "The Fallen". {{storylink|Conquerors Part 2: Lagrange|Lagrange}} When Alpha Trion recounted the story of the war's end to [[Optimus Prime (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Optimus Prime]], he was unable to elaborate on why Megatronus and Megatron shared such similar names. {{storylink|The Crucible}} He was, however, able to point out that Shockwave had sent one of his [[Regenesis]] ores, [[Ore-8]], to Tsiehshi, where Megatronus had once resided; unbeknownst to Trion, this was because "Onyx Prime" had manipulated events so that his younger self would select this planet for the Regenesis project. {{storylink|The Falling, Interlude: The First Who Was Named|The First Who Was Named}}

On the eve of [[Earth]]'s official induction into the [[Council of Worlds]], Alpha Trion told Optimus Prime, [[Starscream (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Starscream]], and [[Pyra Magna]] the story of how Megatronus's conquests had first brought the Thirteen together all those years ago. Starscream questioned if he was represented in this story by Arcee or Megatronus, believing the latter to be a made-up name. {{storylink|Origin Myths}}

When "Onyx Prime" and his tribe of [[Maximal]]s invaded Cybertron some weeks later, [[Devastator (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Devastator]], driven on by [[Scoop (G1)|Scoop]]'s religious fanaticism, reached an earth-shattering epiphany: the duplicitous, backstabbing Starscream was the reincarnation of Megatronus. Initially unsure of this revelation, Starscream went with it until Shockwave, unmasked as an impostor, revealed that he had orchestrated the decidedly mortal Starscream's disastrous rise and fall from power. {{storylink|The Falling, Chapter 4: The Hallowing|The Hallowing}}
{{-}}

====''Prime Wars Trilogy'' cartoons====
{{voiceactor|[[Mark Hamill]] (English)}}

[[File:POTP-Cartoon-Ep3-SolusDies.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|left|"You will remain here in the Fire Nation."]]

[[File:Megatronus.jpeg|thumb|upright=1.4|"You're weak, just like the rest of your people! They did not deserve to exist in this world, in my world! Prepare to join them! Prepare to die!"]]

Long ago, Megatronus was hailed as a hero for his defeat of [[Unicron/Generation 1|Unicron]] using the [[Requiem Blaster (Megatronus)|Requiem Blaster]]. However, he and his lover [[Solus Prime]] clashed over what to do with the Blaster afterwards, as Megatronus wanted to keep it for his own rather than see it destroyed. {{storylink|The Swamp}} As the two fought, the weapon was accidentally discharged, killing Solus and leaving Megatronus to grieve. {{storylink|Without Warning}} The other Primes took back the Blaster from Megatronus, sealing it away, and he placed himself into exile until he could find a way to reunite with his deceased love. {{storylink|Athenaeum Sanctorum (episode)|Athenaeum Sanctorum}}

Many years later, Megatronus orchestrated the events of both the [[Combiner Wars (event)|Combiner Wars]] and [[Trypticon (G1)|Trypticon]]'s resurrection from behind the scenes in an attempt to claim the [[Enigma of Combination]] and the [[Matrix of Leadership]]. To this end, he recruited [[Overlord (G1)|Overlord]] to his cause and guided him to the [[Matrix of Conquest|Matrix of Chaos]] within Unicron's remains, promising Overlord immense power after his plan had succeeded. [[Hot Rod (G1)|Hot Rod]] also joined the ranks of his acolytes after Overlord used the Matrix of Chaos to turn him into Rodimus Cron. {{storylink|Volcanicus (episode)|Volcanicus}} After Trypticon's defeat, [[Victorion]] attempted to claim the Enigma and Matrix, but Megatronus surrounded them with a fiery aura, destroying part of Victorion's [[Dust Up|arm]]. He appeared before the other Transformers, warning them that their time had come to an end. [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] attempted to distract Megatronus with an angry outburst, giving [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] and [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]] a chance to surprise attack him, but Megatronus brushed Maximus aside and killed Optimus. With no one else daring to challenge him, Megatronus took the two relics and departed to complete his plans. {{storylink|All Things Must Pass}}

[[File:TR-Ep10-All-Things-Must-Pass-Fallen-appears.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.2|"Even with all the power in the world, you are still weak."]]

Determined to reunite with Solus, Megatronus turned his sights towards the missing Requiem Blaster. Unsure where it might have been hidden, he began searching its most likely hiding places, burning them to the ground when left empty-handed. {{storylink|The Swamp}} In the [[Well of All Sparks|Well of Sparks]], he began gathering the sparks of Overlord's and Rodimus Cron's victims and installed the Enigma and Matrix into an device which, when combined with the Blaster, would be capable of ripping the spark from every Transformer. {{storylink|Without Warning}} Taking notice of the Blaster being fired, Megatronus rushed to the [[Athenaeum Sanctorum]], where he revealed his plan. After clashing with Megatron, [[Optimus Primal (BW)|Optimus Primal]] and a Unicron-possessed Rodimus, he grabbed the Blaster and took off to put his plan into motion. {{storylink|Consequences}}

[[File:POTP-Cartoon-Ep7-FlameOn.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|"It's time for this world to end in fire, and for a new world to be born from the ashes."]]

Megatronus returned to the [[Well of All Sparks|Well of Sparks]] and installed the Blaster, activating his doomsday weapon. The machine began to drain everyone's sparks as planned, causing Solus to manifest, but they were interrupted by the arrival of Megatron and his team. Refusing to lose, Megatronus shot down Windblade, but was restrained by Grimlock and Optimus Primal. However, the sight of his nearly-resurrected lover gave him the strength to break free, and he burned all the others except Megatron, who moved to protect them. Before he could finish them off, their battle was interrupted by the unexpected arrival of Rodimus Cron, now totally under Unicron's control {{storylink|Collision Course}} and determined to destroy Megatronus and Solus for being part of [[Primus]]'s Thirteen, along with the Matrix. Megatronus battled against Unicron while repeatedly having to divert his attention towards the others attacking his device. Temporarily incapacitating Unicron, Megatronus attacked the others despite Solus's pleas for him to stop, but was unable to prevent them from releasing the relics as the Matrix transformed Primal into Optimal Optimus. While Unicron attacked the new Prime, Megatronus made a grab for the Enigma and Blaster, only to be restrained by the other heroes. {{storylink|Megatronus Unleashed}} He managed to overtake them and grab the Blaster, seeking vengeance for the failure of his plans, but was caught off guard when new arrival [[Predaking (G1)|Predaking]] landed on him from above. The two briefly battled before Megatronus gained the upper hand and ripped off Predaking's head, and attempted to stop Megatron from destroying Solus. His lover, however, suddenly grew in size and grabbed him. Despite his pleas that his love for her was everlasting, she rebuked him and dragged him into the Well, finally killing him. {{storylink|Saga's End}}
{{-}}

====''Power of the Primes'' marketing material====
Megatronus's [[Spark]] passed into the possession of one of the twelve [[Prime Master]]s; hidden within a suit of decoy armor, they safeguarded the abilities of the Primes until the present day. By uniting with a larger Transformer, the Prime Master could channel the powers of Megatronus's Spark and grant them unique abilities that varied with each new partner. {{storylink|The Fallen/toys#Generations|''Power of the Primes'' Bomb-Burst / Megatronus online bio}}

{{note|For a list of every permutation of Megatronus's abilities, see [[Prime Master/Combinations|this link]].}}

====2019 IDW continuity====
[[File:EndOfTime-Thirteen.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.66]]

Megatronus was remembered as one of the Thirteen, described by [[Termagax]] as avatars of the life pattern that infused Cybertron itself. {{storylink|End of Time}}
{{--}}

===Fun Publications===
[[File:The Evil One.jpg|right|upright=0.8|thumb|"Someone remembered me!"]]

Though [[Vector Prime]] did not necessarily think history was wrong to record Megatronus as a monster, he ''was'' his brother, and Vector still had happy memories of their time together before Megatronus's fall from grace. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/06/14}} During the Thirteen's time in ancient Greece in some [[universal stream]]s, the holomatter avatar that the rage-filled Megatronus used to interact with the human population inspired the myth of {{w|Ares}}. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/07/20}} He used to have an impressive collection of antique melee weapons before [[Sideways (AVP)|Sideways]] ruined it with Cosmic Rust... at least, according to Sideways. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime|Sideways, 2015/07/02}}

In the [[Gargent]] realities, where he went by the name "'''the Evil One'''", Megatronus nearly destroyed [[Gobotron]] with the Dark Heart, only to wind up under the [[Nazca Lines]] on Earth. [[Vector Prime]] noted that this was not the only reality where Megatronus was drawn to human pyramids and wondered if there was any link to [[Devil Z]]'s own affinity for pyramids and the Nazca Lines. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/05/30}} [[Cy-Kill (GoBots)|Cy-Kill]] would even be heard to swear by the Evil One. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Renegade Rhetoric|Renegade Rhetoric (1), 2015/10/13}}

[[File:Vectorprimeut.jpg|thumb|left|Back, and to the left.]]

Jealous of his brothers and sisters, Megatronus was motivated to move against his siblings, and targeted Prima's [[Star Saber (Prima)|Star Saber]], intending to take it for his own. To keep it out of his hands, [[Solus Prime]] shattered the blade with her [[Forge of Solus Prime|Forge]], and each piece was taken by one of [[Nexus Prime]]'s components and scattered across the multiverse. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/05/18}} {{storylink|Out of the One, Many}}

Millions of years later, when [[Vector Prime]] returned to the linear universe to deal with the [[Unicron Singularity]] crisis, he reminisced about his mission and his past, including the silhouetted form of The Fallen. {{storylink|Vector Prime: In the Beginning}} Vector's return was soon followed by the that of Nexus Prime, who set about reassembling the Star Saber. While visiting [[Primax 509.28 Epsilon|one universe]]'s Cybertron as part of his quest for the sword's fragments, Nexus decided to tell his companion [[Aquarius (SG)|Aquarius]] about his quest. As he explained the danger of the artifact falling into evil hands, the face of The Fallen flashed through his mind. {{storylink|The Coming Storm: Part 1}}

When dimensional scoundrel [[Sideways (AVP)|Sideways]] seized control of Vector Prime's [[Ask Vector Prime#Facebook|ANN Q&A column]], he commented, "Every time The Fallen polishes his pistons reality splits." to explain why he could be cloned. Surprisingly, this was actually the truth, more or less. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Facebook|Ask Sideways, 2015/06/29}}

When Nexus succeeded in locating the Star Saber, he combined its power with that of the [[Terminus Blade]] to [[Shroud|thicken the walls of reality]], limiting dimensional travel. The Fallen and the other members of the Thirteen gathered to witness this momentous event, and found that, as a side effect, they ceased to exist as [[Multiversal singularity|multiversal singularities]]. {{storylink|Out of the One, Many}}
{{-}}

===Live-action film series continuity family===
====''Revenge of the Fallen'' film====
{{voiceactor|[[Tony Todd]] (English), [[Masafumi Kimura]] (Japanese)|[[Zhao Xiaoming]] (Chinese), [[José Luccioni]] (European French), [[Bert Franzke]] (German), [[Gabriel Pingarrón]] (Latin American-Spanish), [[Ramón Canals]] (Castilian Spanish), [[Carlos Gesteira]] (Portuguese), [[Gaetano Varcasia]] (Italian), [[Ender Yiğit]] (Turkish)}}

[[File:TheFallen-ROTFwithPrimes.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.95|''Ocupado!'']]

Nineteen thousand years ago, The Fallen accompanied [[Dynasty of Primes|his brother Primes]] to [[Earth]] in an attempt to harvest the [[Sun|star]] it orbited. Just as they had completed construction of the [[Star Harvester]], however, The Fallen discovered [[Human|a primitive race of hunters]]. The Primes invoked their rule of the sanctity of life and refused to activate the harvester, but The Fallen despised the humans as simple insects and attempted to activate the Harvester. A great battle took place, but ultimately, The Fallen was defeated and the remaining Primes hid themselves and the [[Matrix of Leadership]], and The Fallen's harvester was concealed within a pyramid in [[Egypt]]. The Fallen dispatched the [[Seeker (ROTF)|Seekers]] to locate the Matrix, but they proved unable and he eventually abandoned them. The Fallen became known as the first [[Decepticon]], and he became the master of [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]], leader of the faction. He employed Megatron in the pursuit of the [[AllSpark]], but after Megatron's defeat at [[Mission City]], the AllSpark was reduced to a mere fragment.

[[File:TheFallen-ROTFNemesis.jpg|thumb|upright=1.95]]

Upon Megatron's revival he traveled to the ''[[Nemesis (ROTF)|Nemesis]]'', where The Fallen stayed in a life-support chair while [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] oversaw the creation of a new army of Decepticons. Prostrating himself before the Fallen, Megatron said that he had failed his master and their race by allowing the AllSpark to be destroyed. Amused by his disciple's misinformation, The Fallen revealed that the cube was merely a vessel, while the knowledge within the AllSpark was instead placed within the mind of the human who had challenged Megatron, [[Sam Witwicky]]. With the knowledge within Sam's mind, they could find the Star Harvester and the Matrix needed to activate it. Megatron asked permission to avenge himself and reclaim the AllSpark, but The Fallen asked for patience, though he could understand his desire, as The Fallen himself hungered to return to the wretched planet where his brother Primes had betrayed him. The Fallen also explained that the only threat to him was the last surviving Prime, [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus]]. Since Optimus would protect Sam, The Fallen ordered Megatron to capture the boy and draw out the Prime.

Megatron's mission was partially successful: although the boy escaped, Optimus came to defend him and died in the process. The Fallen sensed his death and was very pleased, knowing that the time to strike was now. When the Decepticons traveled to the Earth's surface in [[transition form|re-entry mode]]s, The Fallen accompanied them, destroying an [[USS Theodore Roosevelt|aircraft carrier]] as well as attacking several cities. As the aircraft carrier sank into the ocean, The Fallen quietly intoned that revenge was finally his. The Fallen tapped into Earth's communication network, and announced the presence of the Transformers on Earth on worldwide television, demanding the "human hive" hand over Sam or be destroyed.

[[File:ROTF Fallen headchop.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.66|Can't. Take. Our. Sun. Unless you got buns, hon! And, oh man, he don't.]]

Unfortunately, Sam was in Egypt hunting for the [[Matrix of Leadership]] after being told it might be able to revive Optimus. He succeeded, but moments after Prime's resurrection, The Fallen appeared amongst the assorted NEST troops, scattering the soldiers, pinning Optimus, and stealing the Matrix. He then teleported to the harvester that was uncovered earlier by [[Devastator (ROTF)|Devastator]], and as he inserted the Matrix into the machine, he declared that his brothers had failed as he now claimed the Sun. While it charged, the humans attempted to destroy the harvester with their heavy weapons. Unimpressed with their display, The Fallen demonstrated his considerable power by destroying the attacking military forces with telekinesis, then raised a blockade of debris to prevent an air strike. However, a super-powered Optimus Prime, now fused with [[Jetfire (Movie)|Jetfire]], destroyed the harvester and attacked The Fallen, sending them both falling to the ground below.

[[File:TheFallen-ROTFfacegotten.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Don't talk to me or my Sun ever again!]]

{{quote|Die, like your brothers!}}
{{quote|They were your brothers, too.|The Fallen and [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]]|''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen]]''}}

Enraged, The Fallen commanded Optimus to join his brothers in death and two engaged in a fierce duel, but it quickly became apparent that Optimus was strong enough to face The Fallen. Megatron attacked Optimus in an attempt to help his master, but was quickly overpowered and knocked out. The Fallen counterattacked Optimus, managing to rip off Prime's left rocket thruster and strike him in the face with it. However, Optimus eventually managed to impale The Fallen through the shoulder with his own spear, then demanded his face, tearing it off. The Fallen tried to flee, but Optimus Prime punched through his chest and ripped out his spark core, finally killing The Fallen.

Afterwards, a wounded and horrified Megatron fled with Starscream, and the Autobots and their allies declared victory. {{Storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen}}

{{note|The Fallen's involvement in the preceding events, or events mostly similar, were also chronicled in the novels "[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (novel)|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen]]," "[[Revenge of the Fallen: The Junior Novel]]" and "[[The Last Prime]]"; the "[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Official Movie Adaptation]]" and "[[Movie Trilogy]]" comics; and the storybooks "[[I Am Optimus Prime (ROTF)|I Am Optimus Prime]]," "[[Rise of the Decepticons]]", "[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Electronic Voice Changer]]" and "[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen Mix & Match]]." Most of these adaptations are based on early drafts of the script and provide more backstory for The Fallen, such as his hunt for the descendants of his brother Primes, and his promise to Megatron that he would make him a Prime—something Optimus exposes as a lie during their final battle, as one can only be born a Prime, leading Megatron to abandon his teacher. In several, Optimus defeats him not by killing him, but by [[:File:TheFallen-thrownintospace.jpg|hurling him into space]].}}
{{--}}

====IDW movie comics====
[[File:Defianceissue4-creation.jpg|left|thumb|upright=0.85|Look [[Prima|familiar]]?]]

According to The Fallen, he and his brothers were the first creations of the [[AllSpark]]. The planet that would become [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] was mostly barren, but as the AllSpark gradually shaped Cybertron around them and gave The Fallen and his brothers power beyond measure, the cube's own power was depleted. They learned that its power could be replenished by harvesting the energy of stars, but they were unable to locate new stars to suit their purposes, despite their amazing ability to travel between dimensions using triangular "[[sarcophagus|sarcophagi]]". {{storylink|Defiance issue 4|Defiance #4}} As he quested, The Fallen came to believe that the AllSpark was speaking to him, telling him of a grander destiny than that of his brothers, picking him as its "chosen one." {{storylink|Tales of the Fallen issue 4|Tales of the Fallen #4}}

To aid the Dynasty of Primes in their quest, the AllSpark created for them a race of [[Transformer|workers]] that had a power of their own: the ability to transform their bodies into new forms! Some, called "[[Seeker (ROTF)|Seekers]]", could change into interstellar crafts that could locate stars for them, the energies of which would then be harvested to power the AllSpark by massive devices built by the [[Constructicon (ROTF)|other workers]]. The Dynasty tempered their search with the rule of sparing stars with inhabited worlds, but The Fallen believed that the Dynasty's compassion would ultimately doom the Cybertronians to inevitable extinction. As he sought a way to fix this problem, The Fallen came to think evil thoughts. What if there were no other Primes to share the AllSpark with? What if its power was his alone? {{storylink|Defiance issue 4|Defiance #4}}

[[File:JetfireROTF-TalesoftheFallen.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|I'm trustworthy!]]

The Fallen began to court some Transformers to his side. He selected a small number of the [[Constructicon (ROTF)|Constructicon]] drones to do his bidding in private, ultimately in service of subverting the Dynasty of Primes in favor of his own agenda. He called this group the Decepticons. [[Jetfire (Movie)|Jetfire]], The Fallen's most trusted and capable Seeker, began to unwittingly harvest the stars of inhabited star systems; the two would scan a system together, but The Fallen would report that his search areas were devoid of life. This practice got The Fallen and Jetfire into trouble with the other Primes, and so The Fallen began to sow seeds of mistrust in Jetfire. He claimed the Primes' refusal to sacrifice life to save their own planet would be its downfall, and that an army had to be readied in case the Primes betrayed them all. {{storylink|Tales of the Fallen issue 3|Tales of the Fallen #3}}

[[File:TalesoftheFallen4-theyshallpay.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.66|Yummy, yummy, yummy, I got hate in my tummy!]]

The Fallen attempted to build a Star Harvester on his own, powered by a counterfeit [[Matrix of Leadership]] he had constructed. However, it was unstable, and the resulting explosion infused The Fallen with power he had never known. He now burned with dark, unimaginable powers from within. The Fallen, feeling a darker sense of purpose that complemented his darker powers, traveled from world to world to world, killing scores of organisms and assimilating their technology, and leaving the dry husks of planets in his wake. He evolved, and during his ascension he planned for the eventual battle with his brothers. {{storylink|Tales of the Fallen issue 4|Tales of the Fallen #4}}

As Jetfire joined the Decepticons, The Fallen took them to a planet named Earth, and they built a [[Star Harvester]] to claim the [[Sun]]. However, it, too, harbored life: The Fallen was building the harvester there to either bait his brothers into taking action (while he was prepared to kill them all) or to remain in limbo. Either way, he won! Jetfire finally turned against his master, just as the remaining Primes arrived, falling into the traitor's trap. The Fallen warped Jetfire and his other underlings away and faced his brothers alone. {{storylink|Tales of the Fallen issue 3|Tales of the Fallen #3}}

[[File:TalesoftheFallen4-notlikethis.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|Ever since he was a child, he was hated by triangles.]]

The battle between The Fallen and the other Primes was costly. They did not expect The Fallen to have so much power, and one by one they fell by his wretched hand. He had "expanded [his] consciousness—absorbed the mental mass of a hive intelligence seventy trillion strong, probed the neural functions of creatures that swim in unrefined thought..." Since last they met, he was "so much more" than they were. The Fallen was able to grab weapons from his stockpile through personal dimensional portals, and one by one he murdered his brothers until there was only one Prime left to oppose him. With one last desperate gamble, the final Prime fled, and he and The Fallen warped from location to location; The Fallen thought this Prime was merely stalling, but he was gravely mistaken. The final Prime had gathered up the bodies of his defeated brothers, and when at last he had collected them all and The Fallen was weak from overteleportation, he used their combined lifeforce to banish The Fallen forever. The Fallen was sent through his sarcophagus and trapped in another dimension, where he crashed into a desolate landscape, swearing revenge. {{storylink|Tales of the Fallen issue 4|Tales of the Fallen #4}}{{storylink|Foundation issue 2|Foundation #2}}

Knowledge of this was lost through the ages, and the Dynasty of Primes became little more than a myth. Thousands of years later, however, The Fallen's sarcophagus was unearthed on modern-day Cybertron and brought to the quarters of the planet's military leader Megatron. There, sensing the fury and resentment, The Fallen established contact with Megatron, filling him with a new resolve to destroy those who sought out the AllSpark. {{Storylink|Defiance issue 2|Defiance #2}} In the aftermath of Megatron's ruthless battle against a band of [[Ejoornian|aliens]] seeking the AllSpark, The Fallen further counseled him to seize control of Cybertron to make way for The Fallen's return. He also told him that [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus]] sought the AllSpark for himself, and Megatron immediately decided that Optimus and his followers deserved to be killed for this transgression. {{Storylink|Defiance issue 3|Defiance #3}}

[[File:Defiance4 Megatron TheFallen.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|left|All right, who changed the thermostat!?]]

But simply taking the planet would not be enough. The Fallen also ordered Megatron to build a [[Nemesis (Movie)|space cruiser]] to seek out the Matrix, which he said was a prerequisite to his return. As the ship's construction came to an end, The Fallen told Megatron the story of his origin and his plans regarding the harvester on Earth. The Fallen ordered Megatron to put his sarcophagus on the ship and then stay behind to fight Optimus's forces and safeguard the AllSpark. [[Soundwave (ROTF)|Soundwave]] and a majority of the Decepticon soldiers crewed the ship.
Meanwhile, on Cybertron, civil war raged between Optimus's Autobots and Megatron's Decepticons, a war which eventually led to the AllSpark being launched into space. {{storylink|Defiance issue 4|Defiance #4}} {{storylink|Foundation issue 3|Foundation #3}}

The ''Nemesis'' came across the AllSpark's energon signature, to Soundwave's disbelief. The Fallen began speaking to Soundwave just as a [[Ark (DOTM)|ship]] crashed into the ''Nemesis'', and disappeared once more through a portal. After landing the ship on a dead planet, Soundwave was commanded to pursue the ship via the portal—that The Fallen recognized as a [[space bridge]]—it left behind. {{storylink|Convergence chapter 1}} Later, Megatron found the abandoned ''Nemesis'' during his pursuit of the AllSpark. He once again spoke with The Fallen, who was furious that Megatron had taken this detour. He ordered him to resume the chase immediately, confident that the Cube would guide them to the harvester. Megatron obeyed, leaving the sarcophagus in the barren wreckage. {{storylink|Defiance issue 4|Defiance #4}}

Thousands of years later, Soundwave returned, having recovered a space bridge [[pillar]] from the Autobot ship. The Fallen informed Soundwave of Megatron's visit, and Soundwave deduced Megatron was one of the Cybertronians rumored to be held captive by the humans, prompting him to return. The Fallen then used the pillar to warp space and time, leaving his prison at last... {{storylink|Convergence chapter 4}}
{{-}}

====''Transformers: The Movie Universe''====
The original Transformers, all of them Primes, were united by a directive that safeguarded all life, and as such they refused to utilize the harvester on the inhabited Earth. One of their number, however, decided "I want Energon!" and slaughtered his brothers so he could harvest the Sun. He threw away his original name and became the Fallen. In the end, he slaughtered all of his brethren, but they were still able to imprison him in a pocket dimension and save the Earth. In the process, his appearance had changed to a terrifying, cage-like exostructure burning with chaotic energies from the universe's creation, forces that had purged him of all morality. Since his body was never meant to contain the unholy power flowing through it, he had to steadily vent that energy to ensure his own continued existence. This created the visual effect of a constant fiery nimbus.

While effectively harmless to the universe outside his prison, his powers remained vast: He could generate space bridges spontaneously, as well as focus his energies into discrete blasts that could unmake creation itself. Were he ever able to escape, he would be a supremely powerful danger. {{storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen: The Movie Universe|The Movie Universe}}

====Titan movie comics====
The Fallen was the worst of the worst—he made Devastator look like a puppy with a bad tummy! {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.3|#3's Contents section}}

Legend had it that the first seven Transformers were created by [[Primus]], but the Fallen believed them to be creations of the AllSpark. Their task was to harvest Energon for the AllSpark without endangering alien life, but the Fallen cared nothing for the [[Human|puny meatsacks]] of Earth and tried to harvest the Sun! {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.3|The Fallen Profile}} His duped servant Jetfire watched in horror as the Fallen imprisoned the other six Primes! {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.8|Jetfire Profile}} However, the Primes still managed to sacrifice themselves to hide the Creation Matrix, key to the AllSpark, while the Fallen was imprisoned in a pocket dimension on one of Saturn's moons... until Megatron released him! {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.3|The Fallen Profile}}

[[File:Titan1 FallenStarscream.jpg|upright=3|thumb|Behold my <s>resting</s> mighty hand!]]

Soon after Megatron's death in Mission City, The Fallen made contact with [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] and used him to organize the Decepticon army and lay the groundwork for his return. He ordered Starscream and his forces to go to Cybertron and await further instruction, and promised that once the Matrix was found, [[Earth]] would ''burn''! Unfortunately for The Fallen, Autobot twins [[Skids (ROTF)|Skids]] and [[Mudflap (ROTF)|Mudflap]] learned the Starscream was colluding with The Fallen (though not who or what The Fallen ''was''), and headed for Earth to warn Optimus Prime. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.1|Training Day}} The Fallen had [[Soundwave (ROTF)|Soundwave]] contact one of his Seekers still on the planet, [[Ransack (ROTF)|Ransack]], and had him dispatched him to deal with the Twins. He angrily warned Starscream not to fail again, grrrr! {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.2|Dogfight!}}

However, due to his imprisonment, the Fallen could only communicate with his generals and not Ransack directly, which led to Soundwave taking his own actions and working his own angles to try and find the Tomb of the Primes, which included recruiting the Twins, rather than eliminating them. In a fitting act of cosmic irony, the twins turned out to be faking their defection, and they put an end to Soundwave's treacherous scheme. Ransack intended to inform the Fallen, but evidently never made it, while Skids and Mudflap decided that, after all the trouble they had gotten in to after coming to Earth, they'd better not tell anyone about that whole "Fallen" thing they'd learned about after all. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.8|Back-to-Back}}

=====Law and Disorder=====
The Fallen suffered from iron barnacles in the folds of his armor... and if YOU were an Autobot sympathizer, you would be forced to clean them out! {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.7|#7's Law and Disorder}}

====Toy bios====
[[File:TF2010-The-Fallen-art.jpg|thumb|right|250px|I did more things here than on my feature film.]]

Since even before history was recorded on Cybertron, the Fallen has lurked in the shadows, guiding the fate of his fellow machines. His is the hand in the darkness that drives the engines of fate. It was him that engineered the civil war on Cybertron and drove the Decepticons to slaughter their Autobot counterparts. Now on the primitive, flesh-slug infected planet known as Earth, he has stepped out of the shadows to finally seize the [[Star Harvester|power]] he has sought for millennia. {{storylink|The Fallen/toys#Robot Replicas|Robot Replicas The Fallen}}

For thousands of years, the Fallen has recruited proxies to scour the cosmos for the star harvester he required before returning to Earth, the very planet on which his quest began. Nothing will stand in his way this time, and he will scour the surface of this disgusting world clean in the fire of his rage and search through the blasted rubble for that which he seeks. {{storylink|The Fallen/toys#Voyager Class toys|''Revenge of the Fallen'' Voyager The Fallen}}

Aware that only a true Prime can destroy him, the Fallen has entered every battle knowing that the outcome of his victory is inevitable. Modern-day Autobots such as [[Ratchet (Movie)|Ratchet]] and [[Highbrow (TF 2010)|Highbrow]] stand no chance against him, for he wields the power of advanced technology that looks like magic. The Fallen will crush the miserable Autobots that dare to challenge him before proceeding with his plans as if the interruption never occurred. {{storylink|The Fallen/toys#TF2010Voyager|''Hunt for the Decepticons'' Voyager The Fallen}}

As a desperate battle raged in the desert below him, the Fallen reveled in his triumph. The ancient machine with which he intends to harvest the Sun's energy would soon be uncovered and the Earth would be destroyed if he were to win. {{storylink|The Fallen/toys#Transformers (2010)|The Victory of The Fallen}}

====Ask Vector Prime====
Vector Prime recounted the story of [[Tyran 208.28 Gamma]], an alternate timeline in which Megatron and the Decepticons triumphed in the battle of [[Mission City]], but were then trapped on the dead Cybertron by the Autobots before they managed to free The Fallen. Sensing the loss of his servants, The Fallen summoned a new army of Decepticons (including [[Blue Maximus]], [[Chopsaw]], [[Undertow (PCC)|Undertow]], and [[Duststorm (TF 2010)|Duststorm]]) to terrorize Earth! Many an epic battle was fought against them! {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/08/21}}

====''Shattered Glass''====
[[File:Coalescence FallenSunstormAlphaTrion.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.66]]

One version of the Fallen from an unknown universe, while within the agonies of defeat, desperately fled through a seam in reality, but miscalculated, and ended up in [[Primax -408.24 Epsilon|an unconventional reality]]. Due to being in a negative polarity universe, rather than being constantly on fire, the Fallen was now constantly frozen, and only his devoted servant [[Sunstorm (Universe)|Sunstorm]] kept him warm. {{charstubfiction|{{storylink|Coalescence}}}}

===''Animated'' cartoon===
[[Kup (Animated)|Kup]] sardonically compared [[Rodimus Prime (Animated)|Hot Rod]]'s paint job to the Fallen's. {{storylink|Transformers Animated: The AllSpark Almanac II|The AllSpark Almanac II}}

===Aligned continuity family===
====''The Covenant of Primus''====
[[File:MegatronusPrime.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|To have a helmet as good as this will cost you your soul... and also ten cents.]]

Megatronus was the twelfth Prime created by Primus to defeat [[Unicron]]. Rightfully proud of his power and unwaveringly loyal to his creator [[Primus]], he thought of himself as a warrior first and foremost, but his dark powers and conflicted nature meant that he was rarely at peace with himself. His artifact of power—the deadly [[Requiem Blaster (Megatronus)|Requiem Blaster]]—used stellar fusion as an energy conduit, exponentially increasing his already destructive powers. Viewing himself as an outsider, he frequently butted heads with the warrior of light [[Prima]], to the point where even his closest allies among the Thirteen viewed him as an unpredictable and unstable presence. In spite of this, he struck up a close friendship with Solus Prime, which eventually blossomed into a mutual romance. Not even Solus Prime's comforting presence could rein in Megatronus's chaotic tendencies; his private insecurities and hidden fears continued to fester, and soon gave way to something darker.

The thirteen newly created Primes soon began experimenting with their powers and strategizing for the upcoming conflict. Megatronus considered himself a warrior and trained alongside Vector Prime, Prima, [[Onyx Prime]], and [[Amalgamous Prime|Amalgamous]]. Megatronus, having the closest connection to Unicron, offered advice to Solus Prime on how to create the best weapons to defeat the chaos-bringer. Among their collaborative efforts were [[Dark Energon skin]]s, which would protect the Primes from the toxic [[Dark Energon]]. Megatronus eventually requested that a blaster be made for him by Solus Prime. She reluctantly agreed, and the Requiem Blaster was forged. Solus had doubts about the weapon, but her deep faith in Megatronus was what allowed her to trust him with the Blaster.

[[File:COP-Megatronusshootssolus.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|left|"How could this happen? We started out like Romeo and Juliet but it ended up in tragedy!"]]

When the fight against Unicron came, Megatronus fought alongside his siblings, and was ultimately triumphant. However, some of Unicron's darkness had rubbed off on all of them; a fact that Megatronus strangely appeared to revel in. In the era of peace and rebuilding that followed, Megatronus worked alongside [[Liege Maximo]], [[Micronus Prime]], and Amalgmous Prime, refining [[Energon]] for future use. He slowly befriended more of the Thirteen, although his love for Solus Prime never faded.

Unfortunately, this period of peace was not to last. Megatronus and Solus Prime were both being manipulated by Liege Maximo, who managed to drive a schism between the two lovers. Megatronus confronted Solus Prime over a newly created suit of armor intended for Maximo's "farm". Their disagreement eventually grew into a full-fledged fight after Megatronus killed her pet, which had secretly been recording Solus Prime's actions. In the chaos, Megatronus fired the Requiem Blaster without thinking, fatally wounding Solus Prime. Before Solus passed away, however, she professed her love for him.

Megatronus hid himself away in the untamed regions of Cybertron, until the surviving Primes discovered him. Megatronus confessed his crime, but also accused Maximo of setting up the whole plot, and aimed to kill him once and for all. The accusations flew quickly, and before long the argument descended into a free-for-all. In the aftermath, Liege Maximo was apparently blown apart by a shot from the Requiem Blaster, although [[Alpha Trion (WFC)|Alpha Trion]] could not identify just who had fired the weapon. Along with the surviving Primes, a repentant Megatronus attended Solus's funeral. Renaming himself "the Fallen", he donned Solus Prime's suit of armor and went into exile in space, never to be seen again.

Eons later, a young gladiator and social rhetorician named [[Megatron (WFC)|D-16]] took inspiration from ancient folk tales, renaming himself "Megatronus". {{storylink|Transformers: The Covenant of Primus|The Covenant of Primus}}
{{-}}

====Aligned novels====
Megatronus conceived the idea of the [[Requiem Blaster (Megatronus)|Requiem Blaster]], a weapon so powerful that it dwarfed all other weapons in existence. With great reluctance, Solus Prime agreed to forge the weapon for Megatronus, and even then only after Megatronus convinced other members of the Thirteen to petition her on his behalf as well. Even after the weapon was completed, Solus Prime showed great reluctance in allowing it to remain in existence. After demonstrating its awesome power to the Thirteen, she asked for a vote as to whether the Requiem Blaster should be destroyed. Megatronus led the group who voted in favor of retaining the Blaster, and they won by the slimmest of margins, 7-to-6.

At some later date, Megatronus killed Solus Prime in a fit of rage, and became the Fallen, forever more. The reason for the murder is not fully known at this point, although Solus did favor [[Nexus Prime]] over others in the Thirteen, a fact that had stirred jealousy in Megatronus in the past. Though a terrible thing, Vector Prime considered the Fallen lashing out in a moment of anger forgivable over Liege Maximo's active plotting. {{storylink|Transformers: Exiles|Exiles}}

Megatron, who took his name to inspire fear, took a favorable view of the Fallen, considering him the one member of the Thirteen who refused to bow down to the others, and the only Prime who sought his own destiny. {{storylink|Transformers: Exodus|Exodus}}

====''Prime'' cartoon====
[[File:OneShallRise1-WellofAllSparks.jpg|right|thumb|upright=1.67|Dum de dum, not thinking about demons...]]

According to legend, at the beginning of time, Unicron and Primus battled each other for eons, with neither side remaining victorious for long. Until, that is, Primus created the [[Thirteen]]. These Thirteen defeated Unicron and cast him into space. {{storylink|One Shall Rise, Part 1}} At some point statues of Megatronus and his brothers were made. They were placed in the chamber of the High Council. A [[Megatron (WFC)|gladiator]] would also name himself after Megatronus before shortening his name to simply "Megatron". {{storylink|One Shall Rise, Part 3}}

When [[Starscream (WFC)|Starscream]] proclaimed to Optimus Prime that he wished to change sides, [[Bulkhead (Prime)|Bulkhead]] sarcastically claimed that he had been [[Cybertronian sport#Lobbing|lobbing]] with the Fallen. {{storylink|Partners (Prime)|Partners}}
{{--}}

====2015 ''Robots in Disguise'' cartoon====
{{voiceactor|[[Gil Gerard]] (English), [[Fumihiko Tachiki]] (Japanese)|[[Klaus Lochthove]] (German), [[Salvador Reyes]] (Latin American-Spanish), [[Martin Spinhayer]] (French), [[Ferenc Borbiczki]] (Hungarian), [[Antônio Moreno]] (Brazilian Portuguese)}}
[[file:RID-phantommegatronus.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.1|"You will bow down before me, Jor-El! I swear it!"]]
In the distant past, Megatronus killed Solus Prime. {{storylink|Battlegrounds, Part 2}} He was eventually imprisoned in another dimension, and held both [[Earth]] and Cybertron responsible for his defeat. {{storylink|Battlegrounds, Part 1}} He maintained a degree of agency over the events in this world, and he was able to influence events so that the prison ship ''[[Alchemor (RID)|Alchemor]]'' crash-landed on Earth, releasing its cargo of [[Decepticon]] convicts in the process. From there, Megatronus bided his time. Eventually, he contacted the Decepticon revolutionary [[Steeljaw (RID)|Steeljaw]], who had just suffered a humiliating rout at the hands of [[Bumblebee (WFC)|Bumblebee]]'s [[Autobot]]s. Introducing himself as "the first Decepticon", Megatronus struck a bargain with Steeljaw: if Steeljaw helped free him from his prison, Megatronus would let Steeljaw and his gang have the Earth. Steeljaw reluctantly agreed. {{storylink|Lockout}}

[[File:RID-Megatronus.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|caption|Kitty ears of DOOM.]]

Megatronus interrupted Steeljaw while the latter was scheming, demanding to know if they had made progress on the device that would allow him to escape. Steeljaw retorted that he needed more Decepticons to help him with the task, but Megatronus was less than moved, using his telekinetic powers to make [[Clampdown (RID)|Clampdown]] pull on his arm hard until Steeljaw capitulated. Megatronus informed his new servant that the device would require a mass of sufficient metal to anchor the energies generated by his arrival- namely, the [[Crown City Colossus]]. Although the Autobots, accompanied with a reborn [[Optimus Prime (WFC)|Optimus Prime]], attempted to intervene, their efforts weren't enough to stop Steeljaw from activating the portal. A triumphant Megatronus materialized, ready to carry out his plan. {{storylink|Battlegrounds, Part 1}}

[[File:Battlegrounds2-Megatronus.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.4|"I'll show you the dark side."<br>"You may try, but you cannot deny the truth that is your family."<br>"You're so right."]]

Megatronus moved to attack the weakened Autobots, but was intercepted by Optimus, and the two began dueling. Megatronus gained the upper hand and managed to slash at Optimus, knocking him into the water and temporarily taking him out of the fight. Megatronus retieved his fallen [[Spark fuser]] and activated it, intending to draw the remnants of [[Unicron]]'s anti-[[spark]] from the Earth's core and merge it with the AllSpark, destroying both Earth and Cybertron. When Steeljaw realized this, Megatronus retorted that he had never technically lied to him about his right to own Earth... or whatever would be left of it. Megatronus restrained the furious Steeljaw with his telekinesis and opened a rift in the sky.

[[File:RID-megatronustank.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|Megatronus deploys his dreaded drill-nipples.]]

Fighting Steeljaw distracted Megatronus long enough for Bumblebee to resuscitate Optimus, and the two Autobot leaders moved in to finish him off after Megatronus hurled Steeljaw away. While Optimus once again dueled with Megatronus, Bumblebee, [[Strongarm (RID)|Strongarm]], and [[Sideswipe (RID)|Sideswipe]] used their [[Decepticon Hunter]]s to power themselves up. Optimus managed to shatter Megatronus's Spark fuser, closing the rift and ruining his plan. Furious, Megatronus redoubled his attack. [[Drift (RID)|Drift]] helped to drop part of the Colossus on Megatronus. The weight of the statue was enough that Bumblebee's team could blast him with a sustained burst of energy, disintegrating his body and seemingly destroying him, though Bumblebee questioned if he truly was destroyed. {{storylink|Battlegrounds, Part 2}}
{{-}}

====IDW ''Robots in Disguise'' comic====
In later happier times, Bumblebee recalled the events of their battle against Megatronus. {{storylink|Robots in Disguise issue 5|Robots in Disguise #5}}

====''Adventure'' toy bios====
On the moment of Megatronus's defeat at the hands of Bumblebee's team, an evil presence emanated from his wounds and resonated with [[Nemesis Prime (RID)|Nemesis Prime]], powering him up into a new form. {{storylink|Nemesis Prime (RID)#TAV56|Nemesis Prime bio}}

===''Kre-O'' online comic===
[[File:Kreo fallen skybyte.JPG|left|thumb|upright=1]]
When [[Predaking (G1)|Predaking]] attacked [[Metroplex (G1)|Autobot City]], the Fallen stood next to [[Sky-Byte (RID)|Gelshark]]. {{storylink|Behemoth Combination! But They're Cute? The Predacon Unit}}
{{-}}

===''Cyberverse'' cartoon===
Megatronus was one of the [[Thirteen]], {{storylink|Dweller In The Depths (Cyberverse)|Dweller In The Depths}} {{storylink|Silent Strike}} {{storylink|The Other One}} Cybertronians being known to swear by his name in times of shock. {{storylink|The Extinction Event}} {{storylink|The Immobilizers}}

After gaining control of the AllSpark, [[Starscream (Cyberverse)|Starscream]] believed he had pulled Megatronus's spark back to the world of the living and implanted it into one of his "[[scraplet|children]]", though some questioned the legitimacy of his claims. {{storylink|Parley}}

===[[Energon Universe]===
When [[humans]] began to attack [[Optimus Prime (G1)#Energon Universe|Optimus Prime]] even after he helped them, [[Skywarp (G1)#Energon Universe|Skywarp]] exlcaimed "By The Fallen's [[Spark|soul]] these people are stupid and so are you!"{{storylink|Transformers (2023) issue 4|Transformers #4}}

===''One'' film===
{{spoiler|Transformers One (film)|October 20, 2024}}
[[File:One-Megatronus-Prime.jpg|thumb|[[Fandom|You guys]] complain I died too easily but hey, at least my face is still perfectly intact! [[:File:TheFallen-ROTFfacegotten.jpg|Unlike that of my predecessor...]]]]
A member of the [[Thirteen|Primes]], Megatronus Prime was the strongest and largest of them all. He and the other Primes participated in the war against the [[Quintesson]]s. At a critical point in the war, the Primes, including Megatronus, moved to intercept a Quintesson high command meeting following a report from [[Sentinel Prime (One)|Sentinel]], unaware that the aide had led them into a trap to be ambushed. Megatronus fought bravely against the Quintesson horde alongside his siblings, almost emerging victorious until Sentinel revealed his treachery and killed several of the Primes himself. Overpowered and subdued by his enemies, Megatronus was personally beheaded by a grandstanding Sentinel, who took Megatronus' [[transformation cog]] for himself after failing to obtain the [[Matrix of Leadership]].

Megatronus was widely known as a heroic figure after his death, and [[merchandise]] was made of him including [[sticker]]s of various rarity. The miner [[Megatron (One)|D-16]] idolized Megatronus the most out of all the Primes for his mighty power, eagerly accepting when his friend [[Optimus Prime (One)|Orion Pax]] gave him a rare sticker based on Megatronus's face. D-16 proudly wore the sticker on his shoulder, though it continued to sustain damage as he got involved in a mining accident, the [[Iacon 5000]], and a dangerous adventure to the surface alongside Orion, [[Bumblebee (One)|B-127]], and [[Elita-1 (One)|Elita-1]]. When D-16 was captured and taken to Sentinel's tower, the false Prime mocked him for his hero worship, revealing his possession of Megatronus's cog to D-16 and painfully scoring a crude rendition of Megatronus' face into the captive miner's chest. The sticker was destroyed in the process. After being freed by a coordinated assault by Orion, Elita, and the [[High Guard]], D-16 killed the false Prime and ripped the cog from Sentinel's chest, installing it into his own and discarding the one he had previously received from [[Alpha Trion (One)|Alpha Trion]]. As he did so, he renamed himself "Megatron" after his hero and idol. This powerful cog granted Megatron new upgrades such as a triple-barrel rapid-fire [[fusion cannon]], an arm-mounted [[machine gun]] on his left arm, and additional armor.

Later, after being exiled from [[Iacon (polity)|Iacon]] by the newly christened [[Optimus Prime (One)|Optimus Prime]], Megatron fashioned a new [[insignia]] based on Megatronus Prime's face and branded it onto himself and his followers, officially forming the [[Decepticon]]s. {{storylink|Transformers One (film)|One}}

==Games==
===''Transformers: Battle for the Matrix''===
{{Note|Battle for the Matrix is a simplified retelling of the events of ''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen]]''. It can be played from the perspective of either Bumblebee or Optimus Prime. The final battle is against Megatron and the Fallen at the [[Star Harvester]].}}

[[File:The Fallen battleforthematrix.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.1|Behind you!]]

The Fallen tried to defend the Sun Harvester from some Autobot attackers. {{storylink|Transformers: Battle for the Matrix}}
{{--}}

===''Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen'' - The Game===
{{voiceactor|[[James Arnold Taylor]] (English)|[[Sylvain Lemarié]] (French), [[Luis Fernando Ríos]] (Castilian Spanish)}}

[[File:ROTF 360PS3PC TheFallen.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|I shall light this holy ring, release its cleansing flame, and burn a path into the divine beyond!!! ...Wait, what game is this again?]]

====Xbox 360/PS3/PC====
=====Decepticon campaign=====
With Optimus Prime seemingly defeated, The Fallen and the Decepticons journeyed to Egypt, where he uncovered the Star Harvester from inside the Great Pyramid of Giza and commenced his plans to destroy the Sun. However, the last of the Primes had survived his battle with Megatron and now revealed to the enraged Decepticon leader that The Fallen had betrayed him. The Fallen's promise to Megatron that he would make his student a Prime would never be fulfilled, as Primes were born, not made. Megatron demanded what he had been promised, but the Fallen, disgusted with the creature that he no longer needed, attacked. Righteous indignation fueled Megatron through this battle, and ultimately, he ended The Fallen's mastery over the Decepticons by impaling him through his head and letting the corpse fall into the depths of the Star Harvester. {{storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)}}

=====Autobot campaign=====
Optimus Prime had survived his battle with Megatron and merged with the parts of Jetfire, and now this new, powered-up form faced the might of The Fallen at the Great Pyramid. Optimus's ancestor mocked this young upstart who dared to face his elder, telekinetically throwing debris at the Autobot, summoning great bursts of energy from the ground, and unleashing an army of Decepticon drones. However, Optimus Prime's new armour more than enabled him to survive this onslaught, and as he rained energy slugs into The Fallen, the ancient Cybertronian called out to Megatron for help, but to no avail, for his student had since learned of The Fallen's treachery. Optimus ended The Fallen's reign of terror by impaling him through his head and letting the corpse fall into the depths of the Star Harvester. {{storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)}}

====PSP====
{{charstubgame|{{storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (PSP)}}}}
{{-}}

===''Transformers Autobots''/''Decepticons''===
====''Autobots''====
The Fallen was the true leader of the Decepticons, orchestrating Megatron's resurrection. While the new recruit fought Megatron, The Fallen was defeated by Optimus Prime and Jetfire.

====''Decepticons''====
The Fallen was still the true leader of the Decepticons despite Starscream having taken ''de facto'' command after Megatron's death. When the new recruit arrived, Grindor and Sideways made no bones to him about how The Fallen was really the one calling the shots, and that they'd soon get Megatron back. The recruit would be introduced to The Fallen during the hunt for the Matrix and the Harvester. Things came to a head in a battle in Egypt, where the recruit presented the Matrix to The Fallen. The overlord was pleased by his performance and code of loyalty, complaining that other Decepticons didn't share it while throwing a big fat side glance at his other henchmen present. This caused Starscream to tease Megatron that his job as Decepticon leader was in jeopardy.

The Fallen sent the recruit to wipe out most of the remaining Autobots to pave the way for their final plan in what was likely a final test for his new position, and sure enough, the recruit succeeded and even killed Optimus Prime. Megatron was horrified since he was supposed to be the one to kill Optimus, and The Fallen snarked that he obviously didn't. Noting that his apprentice had been outperformed by a Decepticon who was merely a lowly foot soldier, The Fallen announced some role changes: the recruit would now replace Megatron as Decepticon leader and his apprentice, with Megatron now being just a lowly foot soldier in his place. The Fallen congratulated the recruit, and with his new apprentice by his side, activated the Harvester, claimed the resultant Energon, and prepared to engage in a universe-wide campaign of conquest, now that Earth, humanity, and the Autobots had been destroyed. {{storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen: Autobots/Decepticons|Revenge of the Fallen: Autobots/Decepticons}}

===''Revenge of the Fallen'' mobile game===
The Fallen sent [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] and some Decepticon forces to [[Shanghai]] to retrieve a fragment of the [[AllSpark]]. Starscream returned successful, and The Fallen sent him to NEST HQ as a diversion. The Fallen himself used the AllSpark shard to resurrect [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]] as part of the ongoing plan to gain possession of the [[Matrix of Leadership]] so they could reactivate the "[[Star Harvester|Great Machine]]". The Fallen sent Megatron to [[Egypt]], but when the other Decepticons fell, he himself put in an appearance. The Fallen was confident that [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] had worn himself out fighting Megatron, however Optimus channeled the power of the Matrix into a single blast, destroying The Fallen. {{storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (Glu)}}

====Wii/PS2====
{{charstubgame|{{storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (Wii/PS2)}}}}

===''Robots in Disguise'' mobile game===
<center>
{|class="wikitable"border="5"style="width:65%"
|-
!scope="col"width="30%"|'''Version'''
!style="background:#00CCFF;color:black"scope="col"width="35%"|'''Unlock Cost (Energon)'''
!style="background:#BF00FF;color:white"scope="col"width="35%"|'''Unlock Cost (Ultra Sparks)'''
|-
|Starter
|500
|10
|-
|Legion
|1500
|30
|-
|Warrior
|4000
|80
|-
|Warrior Elite
|4000
|80
|-
|Ultra
|8000
|140
|}
</center>

<gallery>
File:TF-RID2015-Mobage-Legion-Megatronus.jpg
File:TF-RID2015-Mobage-Warrior-Megatronus.jpg
File:TF-RID2015-Mobage-Warrior-Elite-Megatronus.jpg
File:TF-RID2015-Mobage-Ultra-Megatronus.jpg
</gallery>

Megatronus was among the many Decepticons available to repel an Insecticon invasion. {{storylink|Transformers: Robots in Disguise (mobile game)|Robots in Disguise}}

===''Splatoon''===
[[Squid Sisters|Marie]] considered Megatronus among the coolest of the Decepticons. {{storylink|Splatoon}}

===''Transformers: Forged to Fight''===
[[File:ForgedToFight-Megatronus.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|Megatronus after hitting the jackpot through watching ''Sushi Girl''.]]

One of the original Thirteen Primes created by Primus to combat Unicron, Megatronus betrayed his fellow Primes in his quest for power, leading to his banishment.<ref>[https://transformersforgedtofight.com/bot-intel-report-megatronus/ Bot Intel Report - Megatronous]</ref> He returned in the present day on [[New Quintessa]] to trouble the Cybertronians marooned on the strange planet.

In an attempt by Megatronus to take the power of the dormant [[Quintessa (IDW)|Necrotitan]], their sparks merged to become [[Necrotronus]]. {{storylink|Transformers: Forged to Fight}}

===''Transformers: Earth Wars''===
Megatronus corrupted Rodimus Prime, which [[Reformatting|reformatted]] him into Rodimus Unicronus.{{storylink|Transformers: Earth Wars|Rodimus Unicronus bio}} Inside of his mind, when Rodimus Prime was talking to Rodimus Unicronus, he wasn't sure if he was speaking to Unicron or Megatronus.{{storylink|Transformers: Earth Wars|Rodimus Unicronus story}}
{{--}}

==Toys==
{{main|The Fallen/toys}}

==Notes==
===Generation 1===
[[File:Fallenpatlee.jpg|thumb|upright=0.85|I'm The Fallen, and I can't get up!]]
*The Fallen was created by [[Simon Furman]] for [[Dreamwave Productions]]' ''[[Transformers: War Within: The Dark Ages|War Within: The Dark Ages]]'' comic book. Furman used him to recycle some of the plans he had for the [[Last Autobot]] in the [[The Transformers (Marvel comic)|original Marvel comic]], but which he was unable to use as a result of the comic's cancellation.<ref>[http://www.camphortree.net/tf/tidbits/otfcc2004.txt OTFCC 2004 convention report]</ref>
*The Fallen design was created by [[Pat Lee]], his first (and only) original Transformers character. The early design concept differed incredibly from the final product, noticeably lacking The Fallen's characteristic mouthplate. He was envisioned as a medieval, ancient-looking Transformer who glowed like a furnace, but he was not depicted as being perpetually on fire until [[Andrew Wildman]] penciled his appearances in ''The Dark Ages'' and the colorists caught on. When questioned about him constantly being aflame, Furman responded that they went with it "because it looks cool."
[[File:Thefallentank.jpg|thumb|upright=0.85|The Judasmobile.]]
*Though Lee designed a tank alternate mode for The Fallen, which was shown in the profile series ''[[Transformers: More than Meets the Eye|More than Meets the Eye]]'', it was never used in-fiction. Similarly, The Fallen is said to have ''no'' alternate mode in IDW's ''Revenge of the Fallen'' comics, and he does not actually transform in the film or the ''Prime Wars Trilogy'' cartoons.
*Very little of The Fallen's backstory was given in his first fictional appearances, leaving much of ''The Dark Ages'' somewhat confusing on its own. Helpful inserts from ''More Than Meets The Eye'' and Dorling Kindersley's ''[[Transformers: The Ultimate Guide]]'', published around the same time, spelled out more. Eventually, the packaging profile printed on his Titanium figure gave the rest. Oh, and then years later, he was the titular villain of a summer blockbuster film.
*The proper treatment of his name, with its capital-T "The", is established both in the comics and the ''Ultimate Guide''. The one dissenting source is his on-package [[bio]], which simply calls him "'''Fallen'''" (as in, "'''Fallen''' forgot his real name long ago"). The reason for this awkward treatment is unknown, though the usual culprits behind toy-name oddities—[[trademark]] issues—are suspected.
*The Fallen can speak Spanish.<ref>Fanclub-exclusive Mini Mayhem strip, March 19, 2007</ref>
[[File:TFGenerations2014 Rejected TheFallen.jpg|thumb|upright=0.85]]
*The Fallen's appearance in the ''Train Wars'' manga is based on a mock-up created for a [[Fan polls#Generations Magazine Exclusive Character Popularity Vote|poll]] in ''[[Transformers Generations 2014 Volume 1]]'', one of ten potential exclusives for Vol. 2. A redeco of ''[[Transformers: Generations (toyline)|Generations]]'' [[Onslaught (WFC)#Generations|Onslaught]], it would have featured the [[Ruination (FOC)|Ruination]] head in combiner mode, which would have been making its Japanese market debut. Ultimately, the Fallen only claimed 5% of the votes.<ref>[http://millionhero.sblo.jp/article/101898683.html Poll results at Hero-X]</ref>
*In the [[2005 IDW continuity]], Megatronus's design is based on his Aligned incarnation, like the other members of the Thirteen.
*Megatronus was again redesigned for the ''Prime Wars Trilogy'' cartoons, amalgamating elements of his incarnations from the Aligned continuity (enlarged shoulders, fusion cannons), ''Revenge of the Fallen'' (glowing red accents, an Egyptian-crown-like head) and Dreamwave (his blocky shape, lots of fire). This design would reappear in ''Forged to Fight'', which also revealed his alternate mode to be a Cybertronian jet like his movie counterpart.
* [[Jason Marnocha]] had provided the scratch track recording voice for Megatronus in the Prime Wars Trilogy before [[Mark Hamill]] was cast in the role.

===''Revenge of the Fallen''===
[[File:TheFallen-ROTFstaff.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|Give him the stick! Don't give him the stick!]]

* Michael Bay attempted to hide The Fallen's involvement in ''Revenge of the Fallen'', going so far as to claim that statements made by Simon Furman at [[San Diego Comic-Con]] 2008<ref>[http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=17412 Simon Furman confirms The Fallen is a character in an interview with Comic Book Resources (Fallen details removed)]</ref> and [[Chris Mowry]] in an interview with MTV Splash Page <ref>[http://splashpage.mtv.com/2008/07/28/exclusive-transformers-2-prequel-comic-gives-inside-scoop-on-2009-movie/ MTV Splash Page interviews Chris Mowry (Fallen details removed)]</ref> were part of a disinformation campaign, and that only a small number of people had seen the script.<ref>[http://www.shootfortheedit.com/forum/showpost.php?p=44729&postcount=2 A post made by Michael Bay on his forum]</ref> On August 5, 2008, after a fan posted on Michael Bay's forum pointing out that several IDW representatives had said they had the script, all references to The Fallen were removed from the aforementioned interviews, as well as any references to IDW Publishing having the script.
* Voice actor [[James Arnold Taylor]] was originally cast as The Fallen in the film version of ''Revenge of the Fallen'' (which led to him getting the same role in ''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)|Revenge of the Fallen: The Game]]''), but was replaced by [[Tony Todd]] in the final edit of the film, to his disappointment. [[Leonard Nimoy]] was also considered for the role, but did not get it on the basis Bay feared Nimoy would have been paid too little money.{{fact}}
* The Fallen's "Command Staff" (also known as the "[[Void Scepter]]"<ref>[http://www2.hasbro.com/transformers/en_US/discover/cybertronian-database.cfm#/characters/the-fallen The Fallen's bio at Hasbro.com]</ref>) seemed to be a later addition to the film, as the staff made no appearances in secondary fiction, and was not included with The Fallen's original toy releases. The [[The Fallen/toys#TF2010Voyager|later Voyager Class figure]] includes said staff, and the toy's hands were retooled to be able to hold it.
* [[Paul Ozzimo]] and [[Josh Nizzi]] designed Earth modes for The Fallen to take on in ''Revenge of the Fallen'', but like many of the Decepticons he does not assume one in the finished film. Ozzimo clarified on his website he was to turn into an {{w|Aurora (aircraft)|Aurora}} stealth bomber, the alleged modern replacement for the [[Jetfire (Movie)|SR-71 Blackbird]].
* Various on-package [[Hasbro]] [[bio]]s for The Fallen in the ''Revenge of the Fallen'' toyline utilize the derogatory term "flesh slugs" for humanity; the term originally appeared in the same manner in the 1980s ''[[Inhumanoids]]'' cartoon, based on another toyline by Hasbro.
* The Fallen was originally going to be ''huge'' in ''Revenge of the Fallen'': the novelization describes him as making Optimus look like an infant, and ''Defiance'' issue 4 depicts him as about the size of a pyramid. In the finished film, The Fallen is only slightly bigger than Optimus and Megatron, and ''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen: The Movie Universe]]'' clarifies he is 42 feet tall.
* Michael Bay doesn't actually like The Fallen, calling him "kind of a (expletive) character".<ref>[http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2010-06-11-Transformers11_ST_N.htm?csp=usat.me USA Today, "Next 'Transformers' is due for a switch"]</ref>
* In early drafts of ''Revenge of the Fallen'', The Fallen doesn't appear in person until the climax, communicating with Megatron aboard the ''Nemesis'' via an interdimensional window. This led to the [[sarcophagus]] storyline in the comics, where only discovering the harvester's location would free him. When dropped from the film to give the character more screen time, it led to a massive plot hole in the comic storyline that was only resolved two years later by [[John Barber]] in ''[[Transformers: Convergence|Convergence]]''.
* The Fallen's design—at least in the early stages of development—appears to be heavily inspired by Egyptian {{w|pharaoh}}s and their attire, which is most noticeable on his [[The Fallen/toys#Voyager Class toys|original Voyager Class toy]] (which was based on early concept art), as it sports a [[Facial hair|goatee]] not unlike the long, fake metal goatees pharaohs like King {{w|Tutankhamun}} wore; as well as his spiky bearded parts somewhat resembling {{w|Nemes}}, which are the striped-cloth headdresses that pharaohs wore. Given both the film's central location being Egypt, and the Egyptian hieroglyph-styled packaging for the toyline, the inspiration makes sense.
** The aforementioned sarcophagus plotline from the IDW comics also adds another layer of Egyptian inspiration into the mix.
** The Fallen's face is also a highly stylized Decepticon [[insignia]] in both early concept art and the final CGI model. While it isn't as prominent a Decepticon insignia as [[Tarn (G1)|IDW Tarn]]'s mask is with the points and everything poking up off the top of his head, the design elements are still there, you just have to look a little harder to notice them.

===Aligned===
*Until the ''Robots in Disguise'' cartoon introduced Megatronus as the "first Decepticon" (an idea taken from the live-action Fallen), the Aligned version of the character had no direct connection to the Decepticons in his backstory. He has, however, always had a helmet shaped like their insignia, an idea that also comes from the live-action film character.
*Megatronus's cartoon robot mode is a mishmash of his prior incarnations. He has the general blockiness and tank vehicle mode from the ''[[War Within (comic)|War Within]]'' comics, and his four-lined visor resembles the slots on that Fallen's faceplate. In addition to his status as "the first Decepticon" and his Decepticon-insignia-shaped helmet, he also features the movie character's telekinetic powers and similar forearm [[kibble]], though said kibble is actually put to use as [[fusion cannon]]-like arm weapons.
*Despite not appearing again after the first-season finale of ''Robots in Disguise'', [[Adam Beechen]] stated in a deleted blog that he survived his apparent destruction but left his fate beyond that in the air.

===Fun Publications===
* The Evil One was originally a one-off character from the ''Challenge of the GoBots'' episode "[[gbwiki:In Search of Ancient GoBonauts|In Search of Ancient GoBonauts]]", where [[Cy-Kill (GoBots)|Cy-Kill]] was looking for the ancient villain, who'd hidden a weapon of great power underneath an ancient pyramid. The idea that the Evil One could be an alternate-universe equivalent of The Fallen was inspired by [https://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=The_Fallen&oldid=685238 an edit] of this very page back in 2012, which noted the episode's coincidential similarities to ''Revenge of the Fallen''.<ref>[https://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/129168-out-of-printhard-to-find-media-mega-thread/page-9#entry3440904 Post by Verity Carlo on the Allspark Forums, 2017/02/12]</ref>

===Foreign names===
====The Fallen====
*''Japanese:'' '''The Fallen''' (ザ・フォールン ''Za Fōrun'')
*''Mandarin:'' '''Duòluò Jīngāng''' (堕落金刚, "Corrupted Vajra")

====Megatronus====
*''Japanese:'' '''Megatronus''' (メガトロナス ''Megatoronasu'')
*''Mandarin:'' '''Zhèn Tiān Zūn''' (震天尊, "Majesty Shocking the Heaven")

==External links==
{{GBwiki|Evil One}}

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

{{Thirteen}}
{{DEFAULTSORT:Fallen}}
[[Category:Cyberverse Transformers]]
[[Category:Decepticon leaders]]
[[Category:Dreamwave Generation 1 Transformers]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Transformers]]
[[Category:IDW (2005) Transformers]]
[[Category:Matrix bearers]]
[[Category:One Transformers]]
[[Category:Prime Transformers]]
[[Category:Renegades]]
[[Category:Revenge of the Fallen Decepticons]]
[[Category:Robots in Disguise (2015) Decepticons]]
[[Category:Thirteen]]
[[Category:Unicron-related characters]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron characters]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Earthrise characters]]

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2024-09-19T23:28:21Z

Jasenomous TF:

__NEWSECTIONLINK__

This is the place for discussion of topics that affect the entire wiki. For less wide-reaching subjects, either use articles' individual talk pages or [https://discord.com/invite/N99Bygq our Discord server.]

Some topics that would ordinarily be here have merited their own pages:

{{chapters|title=Specific Discussion Subjects|align=left|content=
<div class="list-header">'''Moving From Wikia:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving|Arriving]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving|Leaving]]
* [[Transformers Wiki:Community Portal/Complaints|Complaints]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''New Ad Policy:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki:Ads|Ads]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Bookworm Database-Crash:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central|Damage Control Central]]
* [[Project:Bookworm Crash]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving2|Leaving Take 2]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Server Move:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving2|Arriving Take 2]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Relicensing:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Relicensing|Relicensing]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Dealing With Vandalism:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Vandalism|Vandalism]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''GoBots Sister Wiki:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/GoBots|Discussion on the place of GoBots in this wiki]]
<br/> <div class="list-header">'''Wiki Technical Information:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki:Tech|A Not So Brief Summary of the Horrible Things That McFly and Co. Have Done To Keep This Wiki From Melting Down]]
}}<br/>

{{:{{FULLPAGENAMEE}}/Archive}}


== Press release or logo for 30,000 articles? ==
Is it worth putting something together as we get very very close? Maybe something like:
* 3 from Thrilling 30 logo
* 0 from the 40th logo
* 0 from the Vector Sigma "Featured" logo
* 0 from the cosmic-streaking O in the TFTM opener
* 0 from GO!

Just a suggestion.... --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 13:45, 10 November 2023 (EST)
:If we wanted to go down that route, maybe tie into some of the contemporary material? Say, the "O"s from [[Energon Universe]] or [[Transformers: Legacy#Legacy: Evolution|Evolution]]? (Though the latter isn't exactly straight-on...) --[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]]) 14:38, 10 November 2023 (EST)
::Sure! I lean towards the Energon Universe choice. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 15:48, 10 November 2023 (EST)
:Apologies, I've corrected the count on the main page as it was inaccurate, so we're not as close as it looked like we were. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 16:20, 10 November 2023 (EST)
::That just means we have more time to decide and, if so, pull things together. :) -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 16:51, 10 November 2023 (EST)
:::Feels like we just leapt up 40 new articles in the last 2-3 days. Is it worth putting a graphic together? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 22:47, 18 January 2024 (EST)

=="Multi-pack" vs "gift set" and suchlike==
Incoming semantics, but... as I've been going through the toy entries, been trying to standardize/streamline a lot of stuff, and I think maybe a set of consistent terms/definitions for "a bunch of separate toys packed together" is in order. So lemme throw this out here for discussion/future reference...
*'''Multi-pack''' — A pack of toys where the contents (or at least most/some/any of them) are exclusive to this release, not sold in other packaging. Most multi-toy releases nowadays would fall under this umbrella by default.
*'''Gift set''' — A pack of toys where all of the contents are/were concurrently (or close enough) sold individually as well, without changes, in the same market. Like all the various G1 combiner sets.
The latter brings up the question of if we want to label all the Takara "VS" packs and the various UT-era "VALUE PACK!" sets under that umbrella, which I'm ambivalent-to-marginally-in-favor-of over. Especially as Takara's been putting out new "VS" packs where the toys are new decos not available elsewhere... also we kinda made up the "VS pack" term anyway, as memory serves, so. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 20:15, 8 January 2024 (EST)
:Hasbro has used the word "[[Giftset]]" to refer to unique variants not available separately. I'm inclined to think we shouldn't directly contradict that. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 21:21, 8 January 2024 (EST)
::and damn but does that article need updating. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 21:22, 8 January 2024 (EST)
:::I'm inclined to think that Hasbro uses lots of terms in ways that are not exactly conducive to organizing a wiki. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 21:29, 8 January 2024 (EST)

==More bullet point insignia?==
Okay so... I recall there were some other possible faction symbol bullet points we could maybe use. I ran across a few with this batch of toy pics we might consider adding. I'll list them here, see if people can think of more. I feel like there might be a couple more two-faction matchups out there.
* Rescue Bots
* The various BotBots squads
* My First Transformers

I'm not un-convinced that we should have the bespoke insignia for stuff like the Disney Label, since they do use them on the packaging. So uh... there. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 01:51, 13 January 2024 (EST)
:Also, while looking at the list of all the bullets on the template page... maybe we should see if we can split the list up a smidge? Like, put all the mutli-faction icons in one section, a section just for BotBots since there's gonna be quite a few of them? Alphabetizing them might also be in order. (I have exactly zero idea how those templates are coded, so uh, lemme know if that's doable.) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 04:42, 13 January 2024 (EST)
::There's also the [[Star Wars Transformers]]... though I'm not sure if using ''Star Wars'' insignia falls too much out of this wiki's scope, although we do use at least use them on the actual characters' pages (see [[Darth Vader]]). [[User:Turborun|Turborun]] ([[User talk:Turborun|talk]]) 10:34, 13 January 2024 (EST)
:::I don't think we'd use SW insignia because, near as I can tell, the toy packaging doesn't mark the toys that way. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 05:27, 14 January 2024 (EST)

== Idea for reducing the size of toy sections by compacting unchanged toy entries ==

I've come up with an idea that I think would make toy sections on character pages a little better and more intuitive. Instead of having a long list of entries for multiple releases of the exact same toy completely unchanged, we could just compact them all in a single entry, describing how the toy was available both individually and unchanged in a bunch of multipacks. This could be especially helpful with toy sections that are way too long, such as both the Movie Optimus Prime and Bumblebee toy pages that have been subject to a lot of discussion already.

[[User:Fritz/Optimus Prime (Movie)/toys|I used the 2007 Legends Class section of the Movie Optimus Prime toy page to make a quick example out of it.]] The entries would be reduced from four to two toys, since 3/4 of them are the same toy anyway, and a lot of white space would be removed. As for the images of the multipacks, I don't think we would be losing much in removing them since the wiki has never prioritized images of packagings for anything really and, as I know is written somewhere in the "rules", the wiki isn't supposed to be used as an image hosting website in the first place.

So, any thoughts? --[[User:Fritz|Fritz]] ([[User talk:Fritz|talk]]) 20:18, 20 January 2024 (EST)
: We used to do this and it was actually kind of worse. There's also complications when unchanged toys end up being sold under different franchise headers, and when you add in all the other bullet point data a toy/set might have, you could end up with a lonnnnng list of bullet points before you get to the actual writeup, plus describing the multi-packs' contents... you're not really saving space while also kinda hurting the demi-chronological flow of the information. And deleting the multi-pack package imagery feels very wrong. It's one of those cases where there's no real ideal situation, but there's a least-bad one.
:That said, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to make sure the first entry mentions these "repacks" alongside the redecoes and links to the relevant items. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 21:34, 21 January 2024 (EST)
::Good points, as usual. Now that you mentioned it, I think I do have a vague memory of this being done in the past. I was going to suggest the repacks from different toylines should remain separate, though. My mentality was that maybe we could have a way to highlight the "main" releases (original and redecoes/retools) from the "minor" ones (unchanged repacks) to make it easier to identify in a glance how many actually-different toys were released within a toyline, but I wouldn't want it to cause ''more'' confusion than ''less''. Anyway thanks for taking the time to evaluate the idea. --[[User:Fritz|Fritz]] ([[User talk:Fritz|talk]]) 05:54, 22 January 2024 (EST)

==Repurposings, continuity transplants, and using Template:Main/Template:See to improve navigability==
I've gone back to the drawing board to come up with a way to signal to readers where closely-related pages exist, as I don't think [[Help:Disambiguation|disambiguation]] pages are enough and have found [[Template:OtherVersions]] to be unideal. [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive70#Proposal re: G1 pages|Previously]], I'd suggested merging a bunch of pages for so-called "[[Continuity family|continuity]] transplants", but other users convinced me this would be a poor solution. One alternative suggestion, from [[User:Broadside]], was to use [[Template:Main]] to put key links to a character's appearances in other continuity families directly in the fiction section—[[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive70#Handling of "former GoBots" and "former Diaclone" characters on the wiki|reactions at the time]] were neutral-positive. You can see mockups for [[User:Broadside/Sandbox:Cy-Kill|Cy-Kill]] and [[User:Broadside/Sandbox:Bug Bite|Bug Bite]]. This strikes me as the best of both worlds, because it keeps the consistent schema (which helps for page length and organisation) but also puts a link to the information in the place where your typical reader is expecting to find it (on the page for the highest-profile first incarnation of the character).

With the same philosophy in mind, I've also designed two new templates. The first, [[Template:Toyappeared]], is intended for use in toy write-ups as a way of linking to fiction write-ups and character pages. It covers [[repurposing]]s, "continuity transplants", notable instances of [[Show-accuracy|toy-accuracy]], in-fiction [[Reformatting|powerups]], [[Redeco#"Virtual" redecos|"virtual" redecos]], you name it. Toy write-ups are increasingly being duplicated across multiple character pages, which creates maintenance overhead, as both instances must be manually kept in sync. My suggestion is to use [[Template:See]] to link to the full information regarding a toy on the original page, with the repurposed instance giving only brief information of what the toy is and ''why'' it was repurposed or whatever. The second of my new templates has a much more specific intended use case: [[Template:Bwucharacter]] provides an easy way of explaining how/why a character was reinterpreted for their ''Uprising'' appearance, as ''Uprising'' accounts for most of the situations I view as being problematic.

I realise I'm proposing like five things at once here, so [[User:The Wadapan/sandbox/repurposing|my sandbox]] has [[User:The Wadapan/sandbox/repurposing#Full example|a full example]] demonstrating how it all works together, along with tons of individual examples of the templates' usage and a more thorough explanation of what I'm trying to address with them. Take a look, and let me know which aspects you like, which parts you don't like, or any ideas you have to add! —[[User:The Wadapan|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 06:24, 12 February 2024 (EST)
:I can vouch for these templates! [[User:ShootingStar7X|ShootingStar7X]] ([[User talk:ShootingStar7X|talk]]) 15:38, 26 February 2024 (EST)
: I'm seeing a lot of problems with the implementation of some of this, and a lot of future headaches. The ones rolled out put what look like stub headers in a fiction section with just a small normal missable note up top; and in Override's case in specific, multiple stubs with completely redundant information. What this is ''going'' to do is get new people thinking that these are missing information that needs to be filled, then we gotta revert it and tell them no all that goes elsewhere, which is utterly unintuitive and will just lead to arguments and headaches all around.
: As for toys, in the instances of BWU-type stuff where it's a one-toy Mini-Con or whatever, I feel like NOT having the actual toy info for them on the BWU page, as with the Mini-Con Snow Cat toy currently, is not doing the reader any favors. Quite the opposite. Why are we making them jump to a different page for information that has no reason to not be right there? I don't like making readers jump through hoops needlessly, and that's all this feels like. And it's not like the toy sections of most of these are gonna see major changes, so lack of cross-updating is very, very, very unlikely to be an issue.
: I really don't think these require new templates and a bunch of new-editor landmines. At most, there's a decent argument to be made for re-positioning the "you look familiar" template that already exists, maybe below the main character writeup (above feels like a bad layout choice, pushing all kinds of stuff down.) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 02:11, 28 February 2024 (EST)

== Listings and accessories ==

When I was making the description for cannonball based on the Walmart listing, there was mention of a Gatling gun and hammer not shown in the stock images,and left them out.

If I run into this type of situation again, what do I do?[[User:Poliwag06|Poliwag06]] ([[User talk:Poliwag06|talk]]) 10:56, 7 March 2024 (EST)

== A few suggestions ==

Gallery pages should only include images that aren't easily accessed by going to the main page, to avoid cluttering. I guess this is not an issue now since the current gallery pages are fairly short.

There should be more dedication in listing alt-modes of characters. Maybe there should be a header or something. For example, if the Dreamwave version of [[Sunstorm (G1)#Dreamwave Generation One continuity|Sunstorm]] transforms into an F-16 jet, it should be listed in the beginning with a header for the sake of easy access to the said information.--[[User:Primestar3|Primestar3]] ([[User talk:Primestar3|talk]]) 13:59, 17 March 2024 (EDT)

== Will we get an article on The Masked Singer? ==

Will there be an article on TFWiki about The Masked Singer, specifically their recent "Transformers Night" episode (https://the-masked-singer.fandom.com/wiki/Transformers_Night)? --[[User:John Pannozzi|John Pannozzi]] ([[User talk:John Pannozzi|talk]]) 20:01, 12 April 2024 (EDT)

: Assuming it's a licensed appearance (I can't check the credits myself :C ), I can't think why it wouldn't be [[User:AkibaSilver|AkibaSilver]] ([[User talk:AkibaSilver|talk]]) 21:15, 12 April 2024 (EDT)

:: It was indeed licensed. --[[User:John Pannozzi|John Pannozzi]] ([[User talk:John Pannozzi|talk]]) 22:30, 12 April 2024 (EDT)
:::Yes, as an official Hasbro-sanctioned piece of TF media, the episode does meet our requirements for inclusion. It just needs someone to write it up. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 23:22, 12 April 2024 (EDT)

== Franchise articles ==
So I was looking at the franchise pages to try and get an idea of what the standard is supposed to be for how they are written. Should all of them be updated to be more like the [[Beast Wars: Transformers (franchise)]] article? What was making me wonder this was that on the [[Transformers: Energon (franchise)]] article it had a section for "Homages" and one for "New characters" which I don't think any other franchise article has. --[[User:1levichurch|1levichurch]] ([[User talk:1levichurch||talk]]) 22:57, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

== AI upscaled images ==
With fresh offsite talks about the matter, I put forth we add an official policy against posting AI upscaled images of any kind to the wiki, owing to their subpar performance in "enhancing" the quality of images. [[User:McBaggins|McBaggins]] ([[User talk:McBaggins|talk]]) 23:52, 1 May 2024 (EDT)
:Agreed. It's literally faking information and presenting it as official. (Also often noticeably terrible.) Sometimes the best quality available of something sucks, but we simply have to deal. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2024 (EDT)
::100 percent agreed. It's called "artificial" for a reason. Plenty of details would be lost out through the upscaling, and several times errors on the wiki somehow became official through Hastak using the wiki for references (the whole [[Circular reporting]] thing). If we start allowing AI upscaled images, then we're likely to have things lost to the annals of time. Potato quality is better than lost quality[[User:Singularity|Singularity]] ([[User talk:Singularity|talk]]) 00:11, 2 May 2024 (EDT)
: Sure. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 00:43, 2 May 2024 (EDT)

== Ending addition of high-end statues ==
This is something I doubt other people have noticed, but I'm putting down a tent-peg on it: After having built the entries for dozens of high-end collectable TF statues in the last 2-3 years, from firms like Diamond Select, Imaginarium, Azure Sea, XM Studios, etc., and then seeing most of them either officially cancelled or never spoken of again with no reported purchases, I am going to stop adding such items here. If someone else feels like cataloguing them, great.

It really may not be possible for us to keep up with toy-like non-transforming merchandise (figurines and statues) the way we used to. There are at least two ''released'' series of G1 core cast micro-figurines with micro-comics and magnifying glasses, which would have been the rage of the fandom in 2005, that nobody ever got around to adding, and it feels like too much of a chore for me to start. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 10:35, 3 May 2024 (EDT)
: It's an unfortunate but very real thing that once you enter the world of licensed merch, we're ''gonna'' have big gaps. It's... a lot, on top of the "a lot" that is the regular TF toyline and fictional output today. I've said that the work involved in keeping up with all of TF's merch ought to be a full-time paying job, and I genuinely mean it. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 16:39, 3 May 2024 (EDT)

== Transformers Roleplaying Game releases on the front page and sidebar ==

The [[Transformers Roleplaying Game]] is getting pretty frequent releases of both sourcebooks and pre-written adventures, and it occurs to me that it might be a good idea to have it on the "current releases" section of the front page and/or the navigation sidebar. How would people feel about that? --[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]]) 15:49, 4 May 2024 (EDT)
: I think that makes a lot of sense, as long as we have people keeping up with the new releases to document them. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 15:51, 4 May 2024 (EDT)

==How we handle weapons' toy/merch sections==
Okay, so like... I'm not really convinced that what we've been doing is the best way to handle the weapon pages' toys/merch sections. Honestly, they end up looking... really shoddy. There's just tiny scraps of info, vast wads of whitespace, few to no links, the images are tons of different sizes. <br>
I'm thinking that instead of all this... maybe this is a place where a gallery is in order, just a chronological procession. Have the captions just say what lines/toys the weapons came with and link to the toys directly on the character page. It's not like there's much to say about any of these, why not let the toy listing on the character page say it? Why make people scroll through screens of mostly-emptiness, which I feel they're increasingly unlikely to do? I may do a sandbox if I'm feeling up to it. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 22:24, 6 May 2024 (EDT)
:[[User:M Sipher/Sandbox:WeaponPageToysSection]] - So... this, basically. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 22:39, 6 May 2024 (EDT)
:I'd be on board with that. --[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]]) 22:34, 6 May 2024 (EDT)
:I like it. It would be far more compact than our current approach for, say, [[Fusion cannon#Toys]], while still getting the point across. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 11:13, 10 May 2024 (EDT)

==Proposal for Unproduced or Unreleased Template==
I don't think the Apocrypha template is particularly useful. It was created specifically for Alignment, but most of the things in it don't fit that criteria. Something like Unproduced or Unreleased Transformer media would be more self explanatory. [[User:WillR113|WillR113]] ([[User talk:WillR113|talk]]) 07:05, 11 May 2024 (EDT)

== Use of pictures from ebay, fan sites, etc ==

Is it appropriate to use pictures of toys from ebay, fan reviews, video review screenshots and the like? Under fair use and with source credit? Sometimes rarer items we don't have good pictures of on the wiki show up in these places. In particular I found a ebay seller with good images of EZ collection toys and and old Japanese review blog with images of Takara variants of HFTD/Autobot Alliance toys so that got me wondering. —[[User:BluJayWarrior|BluJayWarrior]] ([[User talk:BluJayWarrior|talk]]) 10:10, 12 May 2024 (EDT)
:Images from eBay and other fan sites have been and can continue to be used, giving the fullest source credit feasible. I don't think we've ever needed to rely on video review screenshots and would always prefer to have a "normal" still image instead whenever possible. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 11:02, 16 May 2024 (EDT)

== ''Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers'' “再構成版” エピソード視聴ガイド "Re-Configuration Version" aka "Re-Constructed Version" Episode Viewing Guide ==

We really need to document the "canon" Japanese viewing order for ''Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers'' & ''Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers 2010'' originally included with the ''Pioneer'' Laserdisc booklets & later apparently revised by [[Hirofumi Ichikawa]] (市川裕文) for the DVD BOX SET 2 Instruction Booklet as it would help clean-up the chronology on many wiki pages here. From what I've been able to gather this particular viewing order differs from both the US/Japan production orders, the US-Airing order and the Japanese-Airing order. So what exactly is the order of the episodes of these two series according to these documents? Does anyone own them and able to list the specific order in which the episodes appear in those LD/DVD "Instruction Booklets" word-for-word? As it stands, we've only mentioned that a "narrative viewing order" exists but do not have it listed anywhere. For further clarification, it is not the order in which the episodes appear on the Japanese DVDs. [[User:Astrobotix|Astrobotix]] ([[User talk:Astrobotix|talk]]) 01:09, 15 May 2024 (EDT)
:While this information would be valuable and is worth documenting, it's unlikely to result in us making any major changes to the way our information is structured. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 17:31, 16 May 2024 (EDT)
:Okay, having seen the booklets in question, it just lists the episodes in production order, continuity errors and all. So...absolutely no change, then. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 20:44, 17 May 2024 (EDT)

== Documenting MSRP? ==

Would it be worth documenting MSRP prices (in usd at least)? For the regular retail classes that's for the most part covered by the [[size class]] page, but we don't keep track of them for more specialty items like Masterpieces, multipacks, exclusives, one-off releases not in a normal size class, special lines like Missing Link, etc. It's something I find personally interesting and would've liked to know for older figures and someone in the future might want to know about today's releases. It can also offer some neat bits of info like how Premium Finish releases were generally one price point up compared to the figure's size or how the upcoming United Cliffjumper multipack is a whole $30 off what the individual figures would cost --[[User:BluJayWarrior|BluJayWarrior]] ([[User talk:BluJayWarrior|talk]]) 14:20, 21 May 2024 (EDT)
:I think this would be very interesting, particularly when you scroll down pages for G1 toys that got multiple reissues like the Seekers, Insecticons, and tape players. It's just that - like the Designer Notes and the proper insignias on each and every toy - it would take forever to add and would probably wind up being one super-dedicated person having to do most of the work. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 14:28, 21 May 2024 (EDT)
::I might try to do what I can, going back to recatalogue everything would definitely be a chore. But at the very least I strongly believe it's something we can and should implement for future toy entries. I've started a [[User:BluJayWarrior/Sandbox|MSRP Sandbox]] to try out a few formats, any feedback is appreciated. --[[User:BluJayWarrior|BluJayWarrior]] ([[User talk:BluJayWarrior|talk]]) 05:18, 23 May 2024 (EDT)
::Cleaned up the sandbox page. Anyone have anything to say about the format? Might try applying Style 1 to a few pages this weekend if no one makes any objections. [[User:BluJayWarrior|BluJayWarrior]] ([[User talk:BluJayWarrior|talk]]) 12:58, 24 May 2024 (EDT)
:::Of those options I like Style 1 the best. As you already noted, the [[size class]] pages covers basically all normal U.S. retail from BW through Legacy, missing things like Platinum and MP. To find contemporary G1 prices, here are some good resources:
:::https://web.archive.org/web/20181125082555/https://pleasesavemerobots.com/vstp/vstptf84.html
:::https://web.archive.org/web/20191114081109/http://pleasesavemerobots.com/vstp/vstptf85.html
:::https://web.archive.org/web/20191114091052/http://pleasesavemerobots.com/vstp/vstptf86.html
:::https://web.archive.org/web/20191114090836/http://pleasesavemerobots.com/vstp/vstptf87.html
:::https://web.archive.org/web/20191114084922/http://pleasesavemerobots.com/vstp/vstptf88.html
:::https://web.archive.org/web/20191114081716/http://pleasesavemerobots.com/vstp/vstptf89.html
:::https://web.archive.org/web/20191114085830/http://pleasesavemerobots.com/vstp/vstptf90.html
:::https://www.tfw2005.com/boards/threads/g1-original-retail-price-listing.1167895/
:::I tried looking for G2 MSRP but couldn't find anything as obvious. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 13:24, 24 May 2024 (EDT)
::::Thanks for the sources, gonna have to sort through that later. Planning to start with new ROTB characters since they're smaller pages and prices can still be found. I've decided to add prices for retail classes for reader convenience; not everyone will know to go to the size class page for them and its not linked often enough to make it reasonable they would. [[User:BluJayWarrior|BluJayWarrior]] ([[User talk:BluJayWarrior|talk]]) 14:22, 24 May 2024 (EDT)

: I'd been working on a project like this a long time ago, had originally proposed adding this to the wiki, but then kinda stopped... mostly because near as I could tell, the MSRP in the 80s was something retailers could just make the hell up. The price ranges for any given toy were kinda all over the damn place, and the MSRP was something some retailers used to go "no really we're cheaper SEE?" then make up some price they supposedly "discounted" down from... you know, the thing that got Kay-Bee in legal-type troubles. I was increasingly unsure how to handle that wild price variance concisely on the wiki. In fact...
::https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PBE2i9vLE6fkr933GQbXosA1cxIqB3CkOSnzW0BMdwc/edit#gid=448439989
: Take a look-see. There's at least three different MSRP values for the standard Headmasters, never mind actual sticker prices. Like, I ''want'' to provide this kind of context, I really do, and it's pretty easy once we get to the unified price points of BW on... but for G1 and G2? Woof. That's going to take a bit of mulling. "Average" price maybe, but there's gonna be some Prices Georg here and there throwing shit off. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 16:35, 24 May 2024 (EDT)
::RE: The sandbox... I'm gonna have to vote against Style 1, because, as noted, price info is very likely going to get... cluttered, and the longer that parenthetical is, the worse it is. I'd REALLY like to keep that to just "size class/type (if not obvious) and release year". And don't forget Takara-release prices, which can be more flexible even within a size class... but at least those have been ''extensively'' documented. I think we need to talk about bit more about everything we'd need to cover and ''how'' before we go implementing anything, and get a few more people in on the discussion. (Sorry for all the add-ons, lightly scattered today.) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 18:18, 24 May 2024 (EDT)
:::Fair enough on the old stuff since that gets convoluted, but the newer stuff is comparatively easier to do and I'd rather start sooner before some MSRP prices get harder to find (ROTB Autobots Unite subline prices seem to have disappeared already). Added the ROTB Airazor page I was gonna start with to the sandbox so you can see how the page might look as a whole. Since you object to Style 1 I added a Style 2 version too. --[[User:BluJayWarrior|BluJayWarrior]] ([[User talk:BluJayWarrior|talk]]) 18:38, 24 May 2024 (EDT)
:::: Assemble the data, sure, but I am going to say do ''not'' actually apply any of this to live articles. Again, there's barely been any time or discussion on a project that is... vast in scope, and we simply do not jump on stuff like this right away, because that means things will get not considered and then we have to re-do hundreds to thousands of pages... and we absolutely do ''not'' do it when there's a giant obvious gap (the first decade of the franchise) that still needs to be considered, as how we handle ''that'' will affect how we handle all the others, because we try and keep things consistent.
:::: Like, just off the top of my head, there's non-US-or-Japan markets to consider for just about everything normal-retail. Which makes me think we may want to look into a collapsible template, like with the toy designers and voice actors, to handle the other markets without overloading the bullet point sections, some of which are already a bit husky. There's the fact that Walmart and Target just dropped the prices on TF Deluxes in the US... but apparently, Hasbro didn't change their "MSRP"/cost at all. In fact a quick jump to Hasbro Pulse shows they're still charging $25 for a ''Legacy/Studio'' Deluxe, while I can pop to the local Target/Walmart and buy 'em at $20, so we gotta consider ranges just like with G1/G2. And again... ''I'm moderately convinced that "MSRP" in the USA was bullshit all along,'' so I don't know that it's the term we even want to use in the first place. Maybe "Retail price" would be better. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 00:17, 25 May 2024 (EDT)
:::::I think just documenting the MSRP, if we know it, is enough. No need to go down the rabbit hole of tracking down what individual retailers sell them at when they disregard the MSRP (which as, after all, only a suggested price). In my opinion, at least, it's little different from listing the cover prices of books - the only difference is that Hasbro doesn't print their suggested price directly on the box.
:::::Totally hear you on waiting to the pull the trigger until it's been properly discussed, though. Also, I prefer BluJay's Style 2 as well. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] ([[User talk:Dark T Zeratul|talk]]) 03:46, 25 May 2024 (EDT)
:::::: Um, the problem is, again... I really don't think we HAVE any actual MSRPs outside of Takara's. What's been cataloged here are just "prices they were sold at", which isn't ''specifically'' a Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price, the specific price suggested specifically by the manufacturer. Those we'd need a source for, and as I've pointed out, the handful of stated "MSRP"s we've seen for Hasbro stuff... well, someone was lying, likely multiple someones. For BW on we have a pretty strong ''inference'' of MSRP, but, well. And even that's not reliable... I just remembered that Walmart and Target were charging markedly different prices for the ''EarthSpark'' Tacticons, like, a $2 diff.
:::::: What I'm saying is, we might want to just not call it "MSRP" because of that (also, frankly I question how many people even recognize that acronym). And because of the wide variance in prices for older stuff, no, we don't need to list every price at every retailer (there were a billion retailers in the 80s... man, remember when actual competition in the market was a thing?), but we really OUGHT to account for the variance somehow, because it can be wide and ''full''. "''Original price''" might be best, since that's what we're actually reporting here, with something like "$2.99 - $4.99 (US) / ¥500 (Japan) <expand>". I'd rather do a range than a single-price "average" on old stuff, especially when we have so MUCH data on what these were sold at across the nation that we can see the trends and when a particularly high or low price is an outlier adn should not have been counted. "Modern" stuff we can certainly ignore, say, Kohl's's higher prices and just do the average probable-MSRP-if-those-actually-exist prices most places (all two of them) charge. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 17:10, 25 May 2024 (EDT)
::::Alright, I'll make a [[User:BluJayWarrior/MSRP Catalog|separate sub page]] to catalog prices for now while that gets sorted out
::::As Dark T said, I think prioritizing initial Hasbro MSRP is best as it is the "intended" price (this is what [https://brickset.com Brickset] does for Lego). It's a point of consistency since historically different retailers tend have slight variations on the price anyway (Target/Walmart sometimes being slightly lower, Kohls/BBTS being higher, general lag on reflecting the msrp price increases a few years ago, etc) and I don't think that whole range needs to be noted. Admittedly the current Target/Walmart prices drops are pretty unusual (a whole $5?!) but unless it becomes something more widespread I personally wouldn't consider it as a data point. Might be worth making a note of somewhere if anything, though I'm not sure where --[[User:BluJayWarrior|BluJayWarrior]] ([[User talk:BluJayWarrior|talk]]) 04:26, 25 May 2024 (EDT)

==Micronauts, etc.==
Why are we suddenly gaining detailed issue write-ups for so much of Micronauts, which contains no TF elements at all? Isn't that the point of the IDW Hasbroverse wiki? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 13:14, 1 August 2024 (EDT)
:Oh and look, now whole issues of M.A.S.K. written 7 years ago with no TF content whatsoever are being pasted from the Hasbroverse wiki. Is the other site going offline or something? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 14:26, 1 August 2024 (EDT)
::I don't think it was really our intention to formally unveil the project until we were further along, but some of us have been doing a fair bit of work towards creating a [https://gijoe.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page sister wiki for ''G.I. Joe''] where the [https://gijoe.miraheze.org/wiki/Comics#IDW_Publishing_3 out-of-scope IDW Joe coverage] has already been re-homed. The Joe crew hasn't made any calls about what do with non-Joe stuff to be clear (we're sort of preoccupied, there's so much Joe you guys) but I'm guessing the idea here is to align the rest with our [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive71#Energon Universe coverage|current approach]] to [[Energon Universe|Skybound's shared universe]] and sundown the IDW one? --[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 15:43, 1 August 2024 (EDT)
:::That is more or less the intention, yeah. The Hasbroverse wiki was built at a time where it was perhaps anticipated to be grander than it ended up being, and it wasn't certain how long it was going to run; with the end result being "not very", having this other vestigial site for what is ultimately not a lot of content just doesn't feel practical. The exception, of course, is pre-V5 Joe, which has ''always'' been the sticking point in discussions about moving Hasbroverse content here, both for the amount and for how little it has to do with the IDW Transformers line. Having a dedicated Joe wiki solves that problem and frees up the rest of the Hasbroverse stuff to be reintegrated. Plus, there's still new Joe material being released to this day; arguably having a complete and better curated site for the franchise as a whole that continues to be updated with new releases is more likely to drive traffic and get other people to contribute than it would be linking to a dead wiki for a long-ended comic line that's had the same featured articles for five years because no one cares to add anything to it anymore. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 15:59, 1 August 2024 (EDT)
::::It does look like a rough consensus was reached to do this back in 2021 ([[Transformers_Wiki_talk:Community_Portal/Archive69#Reintegration_of_Hasbroverse_wiki_content|Archive 69]]), it was just never implemented. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 16:10, 1 August 2024 (EDT)
::Like half of MASK issues have something from Transformers in them. Picking and choosing which select issues to cover here is hair-splitting and obnoxious for readers. It's immensely better to just have all the information in one, easily-accessible spot and regard Hasbro Universe as a de facto spinoff of Transformers, much like Beastformers and Energon Universe are. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 17:10, 1 August 2024 (EDT)

==One spoilers==
I propose that information about this movie be withheld until it actually opens in its largest market next weekend. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 11:04, 14 September 2024 (EDT)
: Agreed. [[User:Locoman|Locoman]] ([[User talk:Locoman|talk]]) 11:08, 14 September 2024 (EDT)

==Transformers One and the conversation we've all been waiting for==

On September 12th, Lorenzo di Bonaventura [https://comicbook.com/movies/news/is-transformers-one-a-prequel-optimus-prime-origin-story-exclusive/ clarified the relationship] between ''Transformers One'' and the live-action ''Transformers'' films, describing them as "two universes" that will be "separate". For some, this kind of explicit confirmation may come as a relief after years of wishy-washy answers regarding ''Bumblebee'' and ''Rise of the Beasts'', but it also leaves us with questions on how to best handle ''One''-related information going forward. Around 2015, we adopted a unique layout we applied to all the movie characters, where we organized their movie appearances at the top of the page, regardless of chronological order of release (see "[[Optimus Prime (Movie)#Movies]]"). Obviously, this leads to some questions regarding how we should handle our ''One'' coverage going forward.

The way I see it, we have three options:

* '''Keep the page format as is, and keep''' '''''One''''' '''up with the rest of the movies''': For obvious reasons I think this is probably our weakest possible solution; it's pretty clear at this point that our current solution for classifying the films is not really sustainable, and mashing them all together under a single loosely-affiliated umbrella is already confusing and frustrating people who aren't intimately acquainted with the mechanics of the wiki.

* '''Reorganize movie character pages so that we acknowledge the live-action films and''' '''''One''''' '''as separate continuities within one continuity family, similar to how our G1 pages cover Sunbow, Marvel, JG1, IDW, etc.''': Historically speaking, this is probably the safest option, but from what I understand there is very little "connective tissue"—visually, character-wise, plot-beats—between the live-action films and ''One'' beyond the inertia of "they were both made by Paramount". As some people have discussed in the past, this could lead to a full or partial reformat of our movie character coverage to more clearly reflect the ambiguous "prequel" status of ''Bumblebee'' and ''Rise of the Beasts'', but this may be a conversation for another time.

* '''Separate''' '''''One''''' '''as an entirely new continuity family and split out the relevant information so we have pages for "Optimus Prime (One)", "Megatron (One)", etc.''' Probably the most radical proposal, but this is honestly where I'm at right now: from what I understand the movie is a pretty radical departure from everything that's gone before, with entirely new interpretations of old ''Transformers'' lore—I'd classify it as the start of a new "franchise" in the same way that we distinguish ''Earthspark'' and ''Cyberverse'' despite them both clearly drawing on the same well of post-Aligned lore, and these days "new franchise" is generally synonymous with "new continuity family" for the ease of wiki bookkeeping.

We would appreciate hearing your thoughts on the matter! '''As the film is not out yet in all regions please refrain from posting spoilers here'''. [[User:Locoman|Locoman]] ([[User talk:Locoman|talk]]) 08:56, 15 September 2024 (EDT)

:I could see option 3 being the way we go, but what holds me back from that is that beyond just Paramount, Spielberg and Bay are still executive producers on the film. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 09:39, 15 September 2024 (EDT)

::I think we should put them on the Earthspark Continuity pages to satisfy no-one /j - but yeah, the film is drawing from the same vaguely Binder Of Revelation backstory as everything else for the last 10 years, and unless they have been hiding The Fallen twisting D-16 to evil or the twist that the Creators were the Quintessons all along, One feels pretty decoupled from the rest of the movies. The big issue I see with splitting out fully is that people wondering why we do not do the same for Bumblebee/ROTB, but that more easily passes a "vibe check" as being "Movie-adjacent" and belonging on the same page as the Bay 5-dom than One so far. Agree that trying to put them directly alongside the other movies as a prequel feels both unwieldy and confusing. [[User:AkibaSilver|AkibaSilver]] ([[User talk:AkibaSilver|talk]]) 09:41, 15 September 2024 (EDT)

:I vote for '''option 3''', I think creating separate pages is the way to go. [[User:MrRald|MrRald]] ([[User talk:MrRald|talk]]) 09:54, 15 September 2024 (EDT)
::I vote for '''option 2'''. To me the movie is different enough to be a separate universe but not an entirely different continuity. Josh Cooley himself on April 18 when asked whether the film is a fresh start, a prequel to the live-action films, or its own thing, replied with: "yes to all of the above" https://comicbook.com/movies/news/transformers-one-director-confirms-new-movies-canon-status. (And having seen the movie I can confirm those connections to the live-action series do exist). [[User:Grievous Prime|Grievous Prime]] ([[User talk:Grievous Prime|talk]]) 10:05, 15 September 2024 (EDT)

:I vote for '''option 3'''. One has always felt very different to the previous live action movies so I feel it should get its own dedicated pages. As for BB and ROTB, there is "connective tissue" to the Bayverse movies so I feel they can stay on the pre-existing movie pages. [[User:PublicCrown|PublicCrown]] ([[User talk:PublicCrown|talk]]) 10:25, 15 September 2024 (EDT)
:Having viewed the film at an advance screening, I think there are easily enough references and homages to previous films that '''option two''' makes the most sense. - [[User:Archforce|Archforce]] ([[User talk:Archforce|talk]]) 10:45, 15 September 2024 (EDT)

::I'm favorable for the '''3rd option''', it is still produced under Paramount & there are some producers attached to the project that were on previous movies, but my stance is that we should judge based on the final product & having seen the movie, it doesn't try to be in line to what came before (there are some similarities in design & names, but it stops there since every popular TF stories has influence over the next ones), helped by the new team of writers & creatives. If we can treat each new cartoon as its own entity (even tho in recent years they are streamlined in some areas), I think we can do the same for the recent movies that have more contradictory elements to the Bayverse –[[User:MahXyme|MahXyme/MahXymal]] ([[User talk:MahXyme|talk]]) 10:49, 15 September 2024 (EDT)
:'''<nowiki>#3</nowiki>''' is the cleanest option to me. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 11:32, 15 September 2024 (EDT)

:I think from a practical perspective, '''#3''' is the only real option. Looking at the loose guidelines for a new family on our [[continuity family]] page:
:*"a fresh continuity" — Yep, even Lorenzo's acknowledged this. Even if we questioned that, there's stuff like the AllSpark being absent (with the Matrix pretty much taking exactly the role the AllSpark would have), Megatronus being a good guy, and Sentinel's role being entirely irreconcilable with Dark of the Moon.
:*"within a separate franchise" — Yep. New franchise, and the marketing hasn't done anything to allude to the live-action films specifically.
:*"significantly different in cast, theme, style, etc." — This is the big sticking point for me. One makes no attempt to align with the visual style or characterisations of the live-action films. The sole real connective point is B-127 (name from ''Bumblebee'', he has the big cheeks and antenna of the movie guy, and his talking a lot is clearly a meta-gag about him losing his voice), but even he's characterised completely differently, as the "comedy crazy guy" who's a peer to Optimus and co instead of the cool-but-rude big brother figure from Bay/Bee/Beasts.
:I'm sympathetic to the Paramount/Bay/Spielberg/Di Bonaventura connective tissue, but my big rebuttal there is that we don't consider ''EarthSpark'' to be Aligned because Nicole Dubuc is the showrunner. Ultimately, if we hadn't had pre-release producer statements (now contradicted) calling it a prequel to the other movies, there's absolutely no way this would be in question — we'd already have it as a separate continuity family. And from a wiki organisation standpoint I don't think there's any way to, say, write up Sentinel Prime's opening paragraph in a way that adequately covers both the DOTM and One characters without genericising it to the point of uselessness. --[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]]) 12:33, 15 September 2024 (EDT)
::Yeah, I think '''#3''' is straightforward and likely the approach we'd take if we were presented with the film, as a story, with zero context on the studio releasing it or EPs involved or whatever. I also think there's a high likelihood that the next live-action film will have Elita appear and be like "hey Optimus remember when we were in Transformers One?" and we'll all groan and have to reconsider, but until then, I think the real-world context is basically the only thing separating One from just being the next Broadly Aligned-y New Thing like Cyberverse and EarthSpark before it, which we consistently split out for organisation reasons. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 13:45, 15 September 2024 (EDT)
:Toss me in for '''Option 3''' of an entirely new continuity given how ''different'' the story details has been laid out when compared to the original 2007 film-verse and then later what's set by ''Bumblebee''. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] ([[User talk:Lonegamer78|talk]]) 14:38, 15 September 2024 (EDT)
:Voting for '''option #2'''. While we would still have the outlier of TF:TAM 86 being a theatrically released movie in the G1 continuity family, I see no reason why "movie continuity family" would not only include transmedia spinoffs from feature films (''Reign of Starscream'', toy redeco Tech Specs, etc. etc.) but also feature films which are belonging different timelines and story universes. This would also free us from having to reconcile Movie 'Bee's history -- did he come to Earth in the 1940s or the 1980s? -- and put to bed *that* long running argument about whether the Bay-directed films were the same universe as BB and RotB or not -- now they don't have to be! [[User:Banpei the Mini-Con|Banpei the Mini-Con]] ([[User talk:Banpei the Mini-Con|talk]]) 14:58, 15 September 2024 (EDT)
:Having seen the movie, I think '''#3''' is our cleanest option. Between the Lorenzo interview and, without going into spoilers, the numerous discrepencies there are, I don't think we can get away with suiting it out ala G1. The time may come when we do that for Bumblebee onwards but as far as One goes, I say we treat it as a new continuity. [[User:Ezim93|Ezim93]] ([[User talk:Ezim93|talk]]) 19:53, 15 September 2024 (EDT)
:'''#3'''. #2 was close for me, but TFOne (having seen the movie) is so artistically different from the live action movies, it feels pointless to keep it on the same page like G1/IDW. Ironically, we could give Bayverse/BB&ROTB the G1/IDW treatment. [[User:Boingus|--Boingus]] ([[User talk:Boingus|talk]]) 23:23, 15 September 2024 (EDT)
:I think 3 is where I'm leaning after seeing the film. Keeping this as "movie continuity" simply because it was released theatrically doesn't make sense to me. We wouldn't do that with a new comic or show because it was the same medium, why do it for a movie just because of that? Yes There is some CNA here to the live action films, but it could be argued it has just as much pulled from G1. One is it's own thing in the end. Trying to fit it into the live action movie box just doesn't feel right in this case.--[[User:ParadoxFactor|ParadoxFactor]] ([[User talk:ParadoxFactor|talk]]) 05:47, 16 September 2024 (EDT)
:I vote for '''Option 3''' for all the reasons previously mentioned as well as size concerns. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 09:29, 16 September 2024 (EDT)
:'''Option 3''', I believe the movie was clearly made with a new continuity in mind.-[[User:TitaniumToughGuy|TitaniumToughGuy]] ([[User talk:TitaniumToughGuy|talk]]) 09:38, 16 September 2024 (EDT)
===CHECKPOINT (2024/09/16)===
*Votes for Option 1: 1 (96megatron)
*Votes for Option 2: 3 (GrievousPrime, Archforce, Banpei the Mini-Con)
*Votes for Option 3: 15 (Locoman, AkibaSilver, MrRald, PublicCrown, MahXyme, Saix, Broadside, Jalaguy, Lonegamer, Ezim93, Boingus, ParadoxFactor, Khajidha, TitaniumToughGuy, CyberLink420)
As it stands, current consensus is pretty overwhelmingly in favor of Option 3 by a ratio of 5:1. I know it's only been a day, but barring a sudden swell of support for #2, it might be prudent to start switching everything over. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 10:20, 16 September 2024 (EDT)
: I'm reluctant to make actual changes until the movie hits wide release and the general public can make informed input. Give it a few more days. --[[User:Broadside|Broadside]] ([[User talk:Broadside|talk]]) 10:40, 16 September 2024 (EDT)
::::This. Let people... SEE the movie before we make important decisions. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 19:49, 16 September 2024 (EDT)
::::Right. We can wait a few days for more than a small handful of people to see this and base their decision on, you know, '''''the actual movie''''' rather than whatever someone who had something to do with it says ''this'' week, which historically has waffled between "vague" and "contradictory". Hell, even ''now'' some of them are still being all "well maybe it is and maybe it isn't" and frankly I have no faith they won't ride that ambiguity for a long time like they've done since ''Bumblebee''. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 20:49, 16 September 2024 (EDT)
::I've said ever since Keegan Michael Key tweeted as much that One should be treated as a separate continuity. '''Option 3''' for sure. {{unsigned|jmcdavid}}
:'''Option 3'''. I've seen the movie and other users have covered why that seems like the best choice. It feels as different from the previous movies as Prime is from Animated, or Earthspark from Sunbow (which, despite directly homaging/referencing Sunbow, Earthspark is considered separate from). [[User:Ashendawn|Ashendawn]] ([[User talk:Ashendawn|talk]]) 18:01, 16 September 2024 (EDT)
::I vote '''Option 2'''. There seems to be a large focus on whether or not the film fits in continuity with the prior films, but considering how little they fit with each other that feels irrelevant to me. The creators have been rather unclear whether this film should be considered separate from the ongoing live-action series in terms of production, just in terms of universe. If we had a sense this was the springboard for an entirely separate animated film series I'd say Option 3, but it feels unwarranted at this time. [[User:Indridcold13|Indridcold13]] ([[User talk:Indridcold13|talk]]) 20:29, 16 September 2024 (EDT)
:I'm voting '''Option 3'''; much of my reasons are the same as others have stated above, and I do apologise for opening this bags of worms on the ''One'' talk page. It's not that I don't understand why some people are opposed to creating a new set if pages, but for argument's sake, if ''One'' gets one or more sequels, it would likely draw further away from the established live-action films and become its own continuity/franchise (though that's more of a what-if right now). Overall, I personally think that separating live-action films and animated ones into their own continuities is a reasonable option, and I believe that ''One'' has proven itself a different entity. [[User:Prime Temple|Prime Temple]] ([[User talk:Prime Temple|talk]]) 06:26, 17 September 2024 (EDT)

::Also '''Option 3''' . In tone, content, continuity, style, story, just feels too different to me from the Michael Bay and other films, really only having the method of release in common. It feels more separate from the other movies than even Cyberverse from G1, and that’s happily separate. —[[User:MissDaria|MissDaria]] ([[User talk:MissDaria|talk]]) 10:05, 17 September 2024 (EDT)
:Screen Rant: I vote for '''Option 1''' This came out from ScreenRant today. Is Transformers One considered a prequel to the recent movies of Bumblebee and Rise of the Beast or the original live-action film starting in 2007? Or is it something completely, entirely new? ... Lorenzo di Bonaventura: "It obviously exists beforehand. I think we figured it out. It was like 300 million years before the first Michael Bay movie, so if that's a prequel, that's a prequel. But we're really following the lore about where it starts, and so we really just think about it as the beginning of the story. The origin, yes, but literally the beginning of the thing that we've all come to appreciate." https://screenrant.com/transformers-one-lorenzo-di-bonaventura-and-josh-cooley-interview/ [[User:96megatron|96megatron]] ([[User talk:96megatron|talk]]) 10:56, 17 September 2024 (EDT)
::Voting for '''Option 2'''. If adding stuff like Aligned backstory influence disqualifies One from being movie, then there could be an argument for splitting IDW characters off from the G1 pages because of things like the absence of the traditional "Ark crashes on Earth, everyone wakes up 4 million years later" backstory, and no amount of Owning The Bayverse (which I can't help but feel some of the desire to split One off is fueled by) is worth opening that can of worms. [[User:BattleBlade|BattleBlade]] ([[User talk:BattleBlade|talk]]) 12:31, 17 September 2024 (EDT)
:Voting '''Option 3''', y'all gotta stop taking Lorenzo's word as gospel especially over the actual creatives behind these movies. [[User:Jman98|Jman98]] ([[User talk:Jman98|talk]]) 14:25, 17 September 2024 (EDT)
:Voting '''Option 3''', Lorenzo has made multiple contradictory statements in the past, some having been outright proven wrong. He doesn't seem like he's involved enough in the productions in order to make concrete statements about their continuity, nor is he a representative of Hasbro. [[User:TheDarkMage10218|TheDarkMage10218]] ([[User talk:TheDarkMage10218|talk]]) 19:30, 17 September 2024 (CST)
:: While I would agree that splitting it out makes the most sense as I currently see it, lets also not pretend the wiki is under some thrall to the evil boogeyman known as "the fandoms view of Lorenzo" and ignore that multiple creatives for all the movies people like to argue are definitely not Bayverse for realsies have made contradictory statements about whether or not the films are all supposed to be prequels / sequels, and its because [https://x.com/SJ_Broadside/status/1836084548020338988 they are not ubernerds who care about whether this movie perfectly follows the backstory of one from nearly 2 decades ago]. Just personally, I am seeing this like the High Moon Games advertising themselves as a G1 prequel back in the day - for people not like us, all of Transformers falls into the same vague umbrella, so sure, it can be a "prequel" to the rest of the movies, in the same way Optimus Prime is Optimus Prime is Optimus Prime to Hasbro, no matter whether he be G1, Movie, Animated, or Armada. [[User:AkibaSilver|AkibaSilver]] ([[User talk:AkibaSilver|talk]]) 04:34, 18 September 2024 (EDT)
:::Haven't seen the movie yet, but I strongly agree with that comment. This wiki has never been governed by author intent, and particularly regarding the live-action movies there are too many authors giving too much contradictory intent about contradictory material. ''We'' made up the concept of a "continuity family," that concept ''we made up'' is now old enough for a driver's license, we will have to continue making our own judgments about which stories mesh with what. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 08:45, 18 September 2024 (EDT)
:::: All this, and as to that last point: "continuity family" ''has literally '''NEVER''' meant "all fits into one actual internal timeline"''. There's a reason we used the word "family". We treat the totally-irreconcilable-timelines-having G1 cartoon and G1 comic as part of the same "family" (and BW as well), because of an ''external'' concept of them being "related" to each other by dint of the how and who and why of their creations. And this has held true as we moved forward, the above-mentioned High Moon statements being a very good example. The sheer squirreliness of multiple creatives -and the films themselves- over the past half-decade or so over "continuity" (and let's just dismiss out of hand what a ''voice actor'' thinks, okay), doesn't exactly make me think that the future won't see more squirreliness in whatever comes next. "The existing character pages are too big already" is a more convincing argument for a full-on split, and we got subpages/suites for that problem. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 17:17, 18 September 2024 (EDT)
::::: You all make great points; I amend my reasoning for my choice of Option 3: One deviates stylistically and tonally from the live-action movies, and it isn't even live-action to begin with. [[User:TheDarkMage10218|TheDarkMage10218]] ([[User talk:TheDarkMage10218|talk]]) 22:37, 18 September 2024 (EDT)
:Having seen the movie, I believe '''Option 3''' is the best. It is irreconcilable with the Bay films on several levels (more so than ROTB/Bumblebee). It is extremely aesthetically and tonally different from them as well. I feel that grouping One with the rest of the live-action films simply because they share the same release venue would be akin to grouping Prime and G1. [[User:Paladin Denn|Paladin Denn]] ([[User talk:Paladin Denn|talk]]) 15:22, 18 September 2024 (EDT)

:Just got out of the advanced screening, I think '''Option 3''' would be the best option. There's a few details that clash with the prior films in many regards. It has an overall different feel. --[[User:GordonShumway8690|GordonShumway8690]] ([[User talk:GordonShumway8690|talk]]) 22:10, 18 September 2024 (EDT)

:Just saw the movie, and I vote '''Option 3'''. This movie ''cannot'' be in the same continuity as the other films, so Option 3 would be our safest bet. [[User:Decepticon Stryker|Decepticon Stryker]] ([[User talk:Decepticon Stryker|talk]]) 01:06, 19 September 2024 (EDT)

:Another vote by a movie watcher for '''Option 3.''' Several events in the third act counter what has happened in Bay's films. For the ease of the wiki having it stay separated is the best way to prevent headaches and finger pointing by having it all on the same page. [[User:Singularity|Singularity]] ([[User talk:Singularity|talk]]) 12:21, 19 September 2024 (EDT)
:Does my vote count when I watch it tomorrow? [[User:JasenomousTF|JasenomousTF]] ([[User talk:JasenomousTF|talk]]) 17:27, 19 September 2024 (EDT)