MediaWiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:War Dawn (episode)

2024-08-10T01:33:17Z

JoseBxR: Created page with "==About The Second Act== Now that I've watched the Japanese dub, I have a dilemma. It's a personal one regarding collecting this series in digital form, but I won't bore you. ..."

==About The Second Act==
Now that I've watched the Japanese dub, I have a dilemma. It's a personal one regarding collecting this series in digital form, but I won't bore you. It does lead into this clarification, but I have a question before editing. 
''"Kid Rhino corrected (the pitch-shifted audio) when they released the episode on DVD, but unfortunately, when Shout! Factory went back to the broadcast masters for their original audio tracks, this error was re-introduced to their DVD of the episode. The uncorrected version was also uploaded to YouTube by Hasbro in 2021; unusually, since all the other episodes uploaded were the Rhino versions."'' 
This couldn't quite be characterized as an "error" that was "corrected". I'll quote from this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt25zRJbN4o), where the description shows a more accurate explanation: 
''"While all episodes of The Transformers clock in at about 22:45 with the opening, end credits, and commercial bumpers... Rhino's Season 2, Part 2 release featured a running time of 22:29, as the second act was played as filmed, and without the slowdown. Shout! Factory's recent release, however, corrects only the pitch of the audio, as the episode still runs at 22:29.''" 
"Corrects" doesn't quite apply here either, but what happened to the 2nd act was a time-stretch edit, and I don't necessarily like the result, but since it was broadcast that way, that ought to be preserved. Both DVD releases have it wrong, and so does the Hasbro Pulse channel, but what happened in that youtube release was that the audio was pitched to match the broadcast, but then heavily and poorly edited to match the "film rate" running time of the Rhino release. What a mess. I don't own the Shout! release, so my question is: Can anyone who does confirm that the audio is edited the exact same way? I suspect that the youtube audio was taken from that, and so I can edit accordingly upon confirmation.[[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 21:33, 9 August 2024 (EDT)

Heavy Metal War

2024-07-28T15:44:28Z

JoseBxR: /* Quotes */

{{disambig2|the cartoon episode|the mobile game event|Heavy Metal War - Part 1}}
{{episode
|series=G1toon
|ep=16
|series2=SRLFtoon
|ep2=10
|prev2=Countdown to Extinction (episode)
|next2=Autobot Spike
|series3=''[[Transformers: Generation 2 (cartoon)|Transformers: Generation 2]]''
|ep3=5
|prev3=S.O.S. Dinobots
|next3=The Autobot Run
|image=HeavyMetalWar Primedefeated.jpg
|caption=The agony of defeat.
|title="Heavy Metal War"
|season=1
|season ep=16
|production code=#700-13
|airdate=[[December 15]], 1984
|written by=[[Donald F. Glut]]
|animation studio=[[Toei Animation|Toei]], [[Ashi Productions]], [[Nakamura Production]]
|production company=[[Sunbow Productions]]
|continuity=[[Generation 1 cartoon continuity]]
|video=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4eqsJ72_7Q
|videosite=YouTube
}}
'''Megatron challenges Optimus Prime to a one on one battle to end the war.'''

==Synopsis==
[[File:HeavyMetalWar Megatron invitation.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|Silly Megs, tricks are for kids!]]
A busy construction site is attacked by driver-less construction equipment, and several components are stolen. The construction vehicles return to Decepticon headquarters and are revealed to be the newly built [[Constructicon (G1)|Constructicons]]. The components they stole are parts to a machine that will allow [[Megatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Megatron]] to absorb the [[power chip rectifier]]s from his [[Decepticon]] warriors.

While the final preparations are completed on the machine, Megatron flies to [[Autobot]] headquarters and makes [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]] an offer he cannot refuse. Megatron offers the Autobot leader a one on one battle with the winner staying on [[Earth]] to do as he pleases, and the loser taking his army and exiling themselves to deep space. Confident in his own abilities, Prime accepts the challenge and sets the match.

[[File:HeavyMetalWar Megatron powerup.jpg|upright=1.1|thumb|Fear me, for I have the power of... poo gas!!]]
Knowing that Prime would be unable to resist a chance to honorably end their conflict, Megatron returns to the Decepticon base and uses the newly completed machine to gain all of the special powers of his warriors. [[Skywarp (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Skywarp]]'s teleportation, [[Thundercracker (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Thundercracker]]'s sonic boom, [[Rumble (G1)|Rumble]]'s seismic attack, etc. Knowing that Megatron would now be unbeatable, [[Starscream (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Starscream]] voices concerns that the Autobot computer [[Teletraan I]] would be able to detect what Megatron had done. Anticipating this problem, Megatron dispatches the Constructicons to take care of the computer.

The two armies arrive at the battle site, and the contest begins. Megatron unleashes a barrage of powers (while Starscream gives a running commentary), and Prime is outclassed at every step. Not knowing that he has been deceived, Prime concedes the fight and comments that he underestimated Megatron. The shocked Autobots begin the trek back to base, and the Decepticons follow to make sure they leave.

[[File:Heavy Metal War Devastator.JPG|left|upright=1.1|thumb|Not Brawl.]]
Meanwhile, the Constructicons have nearly tunneled their way into the [[Ark (G1)|Ark]] and Teletraan I. Sensing the imminent danger, Teletraan I activates the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobots]]. The Dinobots respond and start pounding on the Constructicons, opening up a lava channel in the process. The battle not going in their favor, the Constructicons pull out one last trick and combine into the super warrior, [[Devastator (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Devastator]]. The returning Autobots see the battle, but are unable to help. Inside the Ark, Teletraan I is able to show that Megatron cheated, and the Autobots rush outside to help the Dinobots.

[[File:Heavy Metal War Decepticons beat.JPG|upright=1.1|thumb|You'd think Starscream would be used to this, but no...]]
Despite the arrival of the rest of the Autobots to the fight, Devastator is still too powerful to be defeated, so [[Hound (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Hound]] distracts the monstrous Decepticon with a [[hologram]] of [[Halonix Maximus|a colossal Autobot]]. Stunned at the sudden appearance of a robot even bigger than he is, Devastator is shot by Optimus Prime and falls apart. The Constructicons try to drive away, but the Dinobots blast them into the lava. The other Decepticons are routed by the Autobots and also pushed or knocked back by gunfire into the lava. There is much rejoicing.

...Until Megatron rises from the lava, vowing that the Decepticons will rise again.
{{-}}

==Featured characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
*[[Wheeljack (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Wheeljack]] (13)
*[[Bumblebee (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Bumblebee]] (14)
*[[Ratchet (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ratchet]] (15)
*[[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]] (16)
*[[Cliffjumper (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Cliffjumper]] (20)
*[[Ironhide (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ironhide]] (21)
*[[Jazz (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Jazz]] (24)
*[[Hound (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Hound]] (25)
*[[Teletraan I]] (26)
*[[Trailbreaker (G1)|Trailbreaker]] (27)
*[[Bluestreak (G1)|Bluestreak]] (28)
*[[Brawn (G1)|Brawn]] (29)
*[[Prowl (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Prowl]] (30)
*[[Sunstreaker (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Sunstreaker]] (31)
*[[Sideswipe (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Sideswipe]] (32)
*[[Mirage (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Mirage]] (33)
*[[Huffer (G1)|Huffer]] (36)
*[[Grimlock (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Grimlock]] (37)
*[[Snarl (G1)|Snarl]] (38)
*[[Slag (G1)|Slag]] (39)
*[[Swoop (G1)|Swoop]] (40)
*[[Sludge (G1)|Sludge]] (41)
*[[Halonix Maximus|Giant Autobot]] hologram (43)
|c2=
*[[Hook (G1)|Hook]] (2)
*[[Scrapper (G1)|Scrapper]] (3)
*[[Bonecrusher (G1)|Bonecrusher]] (4)
*[[Long Haul (G1)|Long Haul]] (5)
*[[Scavenger (G1)|Scavenger]] (6)
*[[Mixmaster (G1)|Mixmaster]] (7)
*[[Starscream (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Starscream]] (8)
*[[Megatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Megatron]] (9)
*[[Soundwave (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Soundwave]] (10)
*[[Skywarp (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Skywarp]] (11)
*[[Thundercracker (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Thundercracker]] (12)
*[[Rumble (G1)|Rumble]] (22)
*[[Reflector (G1)|Reflector]] (23)
*[[Ravage (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ravage]] (34)
*[[Laserbeak (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Laserbeak]] (35)
*[[Devastator (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Devastator]] (42)
|c3=
*Construction Workers (1)
*[[Sparkplug Witwicky]] (17)
*[[Chip Chase]] (18)
*[[Spike Witwicky (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Spike Witwicky]] (19)
}}

==Quotes==
"They've got the power converter, too! HELP! POLICE!"
:—The construction site '''Foreman''', in a strange line read that turns into a panicked Spike impression.

"Forgive me, but I believe your boast sounds vaguely familiar."
:—'''Starscream''', after hearing another of Megatron's promises to destroy the Autobots.

[[File:Shockblastcannon.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|I'm alright! I'm alright. That was supposed to happen.]]
"Let's see how he likes my new [[Shock blast cannon|shockblast cannon]]! ''[The cannon explodes in his hands]'' Uhh... hnh... that's a shock, all right."
:—'''Wheeljack'''

"But I need my power chip rectifier. Besides, the Cybertron Code of Combat requires each warrior to fight as he is, without additional reinforcement. You wouldn't want to cheat, would you, Megatron?" 
"I will win by any means! At any cost! Even if it means terminating ''you'', Starscream!" 
"I was only raising a legal point..."
:—'''Starscream''' and '''Megatron'''

"Doesn't this remind you of the gladiatorial combats in ancient Rome?" 
"Maybe it would if I knew what you were talkin' about."
:—'''Chip''' and '''Ironhide''' on the duel between Optimus and Megatron.

"Sludge not see these Decepticons before." 
"Not see again either. Because we dino-mite them to pieces!" 
:—'''Sludge''' and '''Snarl''' vs. the Constructicons.

"It is ended." 
"Is it really over, Optimus? I mean, have we seen the end of this war? Forever?" 
"Who can say, Spike? In this vast universe, is anything truly forever?"
:—'''Optimus Prime''' and '''Spike''', with a question that is quickly answered, at least for the audience

==Notes==
===Production information===
* First draft script: 27th July 1984
* Script revised by [[Ron Friedman]]: 1st August 1984
* Final script: 13th August 1984
* Dialogue recording: 23rd August 1984 (Note - [[Gregg Berger]] not present for main session, later pick-up session required)
* Returned to the US for telecine: 3rd December 1984

===Continuity notes===
*This episode introduces the [[Constructicon (G1)|Constructicons]] and [[Devastator (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Devastator]].
[[File:Heavymeatlwar megatron powers.jpg|thumb|upright=1.1|This fist of mine glows with an awesome power chip rectifier!]]
[[File:HeavyMetalWar Scavenger.jpg|thumb|upright=1.1|This shovel of mine glows with an awesome sensor reading!]]
*Gadgets and powers:
**The Constructicons show off a variety of armaments and abilities, such as Mixmaster melting a whole steam roller into goop and later firing a stream of rock-melting liquid (the cannon flipping up from his cab is perhaps a nod to his toy's "attack mode"), Long Haul having dump truck mode missile launchers (also a possible nod to his toy's "attack mode"), and Scavenger's shovel-based sensors.
**Long Haul has the rather ''amazing'' ability to fill up his cargo bed with a payload, transform to robot mode, then convert back to dump truck mode... and still have the cargo be there!
**Ironhide detects Megatron's approach using a sensor that displays on his chest, not unlike abilities he displayed in "[[S.O.S. Dinobots]]" and "[[The Ultimate Doom, Part 1]]".
**Cliffjumper's [[glass gas]], if that's what it's supposed to be, acts a lot more like Ironhide's liquid nitrogen. He shoots a huge stream of it from his retracted wrists, and it encases Megatron in ice.
**Speaking of which, being encased in ice does not affect Megatron's ability to fly.
**Ironhide doesn't even bother retracting his fists; he just shoots lasers right out of them. It's an unusual conceit for ''Transformers'', though [[Megatron's Master Plan, Part 2|not]] [[Dinobot Island, Part 2|unheard of]].
**As explained in this episode, [[power chip rectifier]]s are what give Transformers their unique special abilities.
**The episode gives us a showcase of the Decepticons' most notable abilities, as Megatron uses Starscream's [[cluster bomb]]s and null rays, Reflector's light-generating abilities, Rumble's earthquakes, Skywarp's teleportation, and Thundercracker's sonic abilities.
***Incidentally, this is the first time said sonic abilities have been used explicitly. And it's not even by the guy they belong to.
**Optimus shows the strange ability to fire lasers out of his palm. He's blocking Megatron's shot with the other arm at the same time, almost like he's [[Optimus Primal (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity#Beast Machines cartoon|absorbing the energy and shooting it back]].
**Teletraan-1 can make up its own mind to wake up the Dinobots when a threat is detected.
**Grimlock actually uses his rocket launcher, though it's drawn as one of the barrels of his laser rifle shooting off like a rocket.
**Snarl's sword can fire energy blasts from its tip. The Dinobots actually using their swords is something that doesn't happen often, but this is the second time Snarl has been shown with his. Instead of being red, as per the toy and comics, it uses the gray coloring it has in Snarl's package art.
**While the lasers in the Dinobots' dinosaur modes come out of their eyes, horns or mouths, Snarl's dinosaur mode lasers come out of his nostrils. ''Yeah.''
**Hound projects one of his holograms out of both fists.
**Hey, turns out the Constructicons can turn themselves all into one big robot! Wonder if the toys can do that??
*When the Constructicons are tunneling, Scrapper refers to [[Scavenger (G1)|Scavenger]] with his working name "[[Scrounge (G1)|Scrounge]]". In their [[Transformers: More than Meets the Eye|''More than Meets the Eye'']] bio, Dreamwave would paint this as a deliberate derogatory term other Decepticons sometimes refer to him as.
*Soundwave totally pets Ravage on the head like a kittycat. Adorable!
*This episode is also the "source" of the aborted "Lava Bath Safety" deco for the original Megatron toy.
*The ''Law of Cybertron'' will be invoked again many years later, to resolve the Generation 2 War. {{storylink|Transformers: G-2 (story page)|The Autobots Triumph in the Battle of Good Vs. Evil!}}

===Real-world references===
*''[[Star Wars (franchise)|Star Wars]]'' sound effects:
**''[[Millennium Falcon]]'' engine burst/whine as the Constructicons take off from the construction site.
**Same effect as Megatron leaves Autobot Headquarters.
**[[Lightsaber]] ignition sound when Megatron activates Reflector's light powers.
*Chip provides the episode's requisite dose of "Oh, it's ''educational''" by likening the leaders' combat to the gladiatorial matches of ancient Rome.
*Mixmaster gets in on the act by naming a couple of acids by formula: H2SO4 (sulfuric acid) and HCl (hydrochloric acid).
*Oh, and the construction site will make energy from the earth's magnetic field. "Magnetic field" sounds like science, right??

===Technical or animation glitches===
*It seems the artists might have had only script directions to go by when drawing the Constructicons' vehicular attack modes, and not actual character models. Both Long Haul and Mixmaster deploy weapons that are of similar description to their toys' attack forms (cab-mounted cannon, twin missile launchers), but look nothing like them.
*Coloring errors:
**As Long Haul deploys his missiles, his Decepticon symbol is red, and missing its "cheeks".
**The top of Hook's head is green as Scrapper bows to Megatron... and again in the very next shot.
**Scavenger's face is colored all-green as he welds. If it was a stylistic decision to show the light from his welding, then it should flicker along with the welding lights.
**As Scrapper directs the others working on the infuser, his head is green instead of black, and Mixmaster's drum and torso are purple instead of green.
**The top of Wheeljack's chest is colored glass-blue instead of white after the shock cannon blows up.
**During the pan across the Decepticons before the strength transfer, Soundwave is missing the line in the middle of his mask, and his yellow stripes are mostly colored blue.
**Megatron's waist is red instead of silver after the transfer.
**When Megatron talks to Starscream after that, Starscream's air vent "boobs" are colored white instead of black.
**The front of Scrapper's head is red instead of black as Megatron orders him to move out.
**As Scrapper transforms, his whole helmet is green.
**As Optimus explains the code to Spike, Ironhide's forehead isn't fully drawn in.
**"Defeat, Megatron?" Megatron's fusion cannon is white instead of black during this line.
**At the end of the across the Decepticons seating themselves, Soundwave's optic visor is blue instead of red.
**Laserbeak's head is light gray as he ejects from Soundwave.
**Megatron's faction emblem is missing before he teleports.
**And it's missing again as he says the Autobots must exile.
**After Megatron teleports, Skywarp is colored like Starscream as he talks about the his ability.
**Starscream's right arm is colored dark gray for a moment, while he talks to Skywarp about the rectifiers.
**Wheeljack's missing one of the lines on his "ears" as he and the others listen to Optimus say he was not prepared.
**Prime's tires are light gray as he transforms to truck mode, and his headlights aren't colored in.[[File:Heavymetalwar constructicons target teletraan.jpg|thumb|upright=1.1|Oh, and Scavenger's chest shouldn't be purple, either.]]
**Scrapper's helmet is green in two shots as he and the others run into Autobot Headquarters.
**Scavenger's back is purple as he and the others back away from the Dinobots.
**Snarl's helmet is the same medium gray as his body as he joins Sludge.
**As Devastator walks toward the Dinobots, Swoop's head is white, while Sludge and Slag are block-colored gray.
**Devastator's hand is green instead of purple as he throws Grimlock.
**The top of Starscream's chest is red instead of gray as Megatron rants about the hologram.
*"Besides, the Cybertron code of combat requires..." Starscream's hand phases behind the transfer machine's light during his monologue.
*There's a discontinuity between shots as Megatron is infused; in one shot he's moving and reacting in visible pain to the power transfer; in the next, he's just standing there like a statue.
*Also in the above scene, when Megatron says "I now possess all your powers in addition to my own" his "helmet" is significantly wider than his usual onscreen character model's, and in the NEXT shot ("Optimus Prime and the Autobots... are FINISHED!! Huhuhwarhahahahaha!!") his helmet suddenly shrinks back to its usual narrow width. It would therefore be reasonable to surmise the animators were using Megatron's G1 Toy as a drawing reference for the former shot, as his helmet IS significantly wider than the "normal" Megatron's onscreen model.
*After Megatron talks of the Constructicons destroying Teletraan I, he's suddenly no longer attached to the machine.
*When Megatron laughs maniacally after being infused with the power of the other Decepticons, his head is disproportionately small, and his Decepticon insignia moves independently of his body.
*When the Autobots transform into their alternate modes right before leaving to the duel, Trailbreaker transforms outside the Ark somehow.
*When the Autobots transform back into robot mode when they arrive at the duel, Ironhide, already in robot mode, transforms into his alternate mode. The next scene shows him in robot mode again.
*When Starscream lands behind Megatron before the latter's duel with Optimus Prime, the animators forgot to animate the dust Starscream's feet stir up, so we can see that his legs are not fully drawn, and instead of feet, they end in paint blotches.
*Chip is drawn speaking Spike's line "It's Earth history, Ironhide!"
*During the duel, what are the Autobots supposed to be sitting on? Air?
*After the boulder Prime threw at Megatron splits in two, it completely disappears before the shot ends.
[[File:HeavyMetalWar Huffer towing Prime's trailer.jpg|thumb|upright=1.1|"Rise Huffimus Prime!"]]
*Huffer is drawn with six wheels instead of four as he takes Prime's trailer.
*Only a moment after Huffer takes Prime's trailer, as the Autobots depart the battlefield, the animators have drawn Prime towing his trailer again, but covered up their error by coloring him orange like Huffer.
*Mixmaster's cab-weapon changes color and form between scenes (it's a gray sphere when the Constructicons start tunneling; it's a green gun when they reach Autobot Headquarters.)
*Mixmaster's acid-laser changes from pink to orange between shots. The weapon that fires it has gone back to gray in the second shot.
*The animation doesn't really show a hole ''melting'' in the floor; a section of the floor just vanishes and is replaced with a melted hole.
*Grimlock has his original head design in this episode, rather than the later, toy-based one he normally is drawn with.
*Grimlock's [[galaxial rocket launcher]] is drawn as one of the barrels of his laser rifle shooting off.
*The Dinobots' voices are ''heavily'' processed in his episode, far beyond the norm, giving them a crunchy, gravely sound.
*The inside of Sludge's [[robot mode]] mouth is glowing orange ''again''. Clearly this is part of his character model, but why and how did such a bizarre choice come about in the first place?
*As Scrapper clutches his wounded shoulder, he has two small eyes instead of a visor. (It makes him look a lot like [[Rewind (G1)|Rewind]].)
[[File:G1DevastatorHeads.jpg|thumb|upright=1.1|But let's face it - he looks much, much cooler with the visor.]]
*Much like [[A Plague of Insecticons|Kickback's insect head]], the cartoon could never quite make up its mind whether Devastator was supposed to have two small eyes or one big visor. This episode shows him with eyes as he monologues, then the visor shows up just a shot or two later.
*"Then -- Then Megatron cheated!" Ironhide's mouth is drawn with [[teeth]] and a [[tongue]].
*When the Autobots cheer inside their headquarters, [[Bumblebee (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Bumblebee]]'s insignia is missing, Wheeljack's ears aren't flashing, and Jazz's mouth is blinking on and off.
*As the hologram fades out, Hound isn't shown in the nearby cave from which he's supposed to be projecting it.
*When [[Megatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Megatron]] finds out the "Giant [[Autobot]]" is a hologram, his cannon [[kibble]] is gone for a brief second.
*In the final closeup of Megatron's face, several of the lava streams are flowing ''behind'' his eyes and back out. OUCH!
*When we first see the Autobots in the Ark after the duel, Ironhide punches empty air, the whole screen shakes, and he says, “Uh, sorry about that” to no-one.

===Rhino DVD release===
More than most episodes, the [[Rhino Entertainment|Kid Rhino]] DVD version of this episode is full of animation errors that do not appear in the original broadcast version or prior home video releases (as a result of incomplete film masters being used for the DVD), as well as crude attempts made by Rhino to fix some of these errors.

Some are merely aesthetic complaints:
*In one shot, the camera pans sideways to follow the Constructicons, however they aren't moving, so they actually lag behind the screen. Then, as they round a corner, they are animated above the animation cel of the building they drive around, and you can see they are not fully drawn. Their [[alternate mode|vehicle mode]]s end in unfinished lines and paint blotches until they come fully into view.
*As the Constructicons make their big introductory transformations, the camera doesn't pan up with Bonecrusher, Long Haul, and Mixmaster, leaving them cut out of the shot from the thighs upward. Bonecrusher is also visibly floating above the ground.
*After Long Haul transforms, the equipment he's supposedly carrying simply pops into view. As the outlines tell us, it has been retroactively shopped into the image.
*The Rhino DVD portrays the power-chip smelter as a featureless rectangular smear, lacking all the light effects and animation that should be present.
*When Megatron says "Scrapper, you have your orders...", the Constructicons' eyes / eye visors no longer glow red in response.
*As he drives up to start digging, [[Mixmaster (G1)|Mixmaster]] is constantly jumping a bit back and forth while driving, as if the animation frames are not ordered properly.
*The shot of Spike saying "I mean, they don't call those creeps Decepticons for nothing." is much cruder and more anime-esque.
*When the Autobots transform to leave base for the battlefield, Optimus Prime's left headlight blinks in and out a couple of times.
*Then, as they all drive out of the Ark, the screen freezes for a moment. The Autobots seem to have teleported after the animation finally continues.
*Spike's animation during the shot of Chip saying "That answer your question, Ironhide?" is different.
*The sky behind Ironhide, when he is informing us of his ignorance of Earth's history, jumps noticeably at the beginning of the shot, and the shadowy outlines around him vibrate wildly.
*The audience isn't actually sitting on the edge of the pit, rather they are all somehow seated on the slopes.
*The black shading around Megatron's eyes is missing during a closeup shot of him. In the same shot, his body is wildly moving around as if he is running.
*At two points during the duel with Optimus Prime (one of them recycled as him landing at Autobot Headquarters), Megatron is colored dark gray.
*When the miscolored Megatron blasts Prime away, the background isn't moving to simulate the camera pan, whereas Prime's animation is.
*The humans in one shot are drawn horribly off-model, with terrible looking teeth, may we add. Spike shows his pre-final print uppers again in a later shot.
*When Skywarp boasts that Megatron acquired the power of teleportation from him, he is colored like Starscream, who is seen sitting right next to him.
*During the Dinobots' fight scene with the Constructicons, some of the laser-firing animation is missing, leaving the characters with huge "holes" and gaps on their bodies where said laser shots should have been animated. This also renders the shot of Sludge firing his eye-beams completely pointless.
*And as Swoop fires his missiles, the background art isn't moving, making it look like he is floating.
*Also in one shot, the rock covering the Constructicons is missing from the foreground, and again, we see incomplete drawings instead of fully-drawn robots.
**However a later shot has a cave mouth drawn over the screen's outer rim, which shouldn't be there, as the scene takes place outside.
*The shot of the Constructicons falling in lava features slightly less detailed lava.

However, some of the screwups actually confuse the plot:
[[File:HeavyMetalWar-Rhino VS Shout.jpg|thumb|upright=1.1|Rare appearance of the yellow Cliffjumper variant.]]
*Power chip rectifier only appear in the finished animation as little more than small glowing pink dots. When Starscream removes his, this glowing effect is missing, meaning he's holding nothing, and that none of the rectifiers ever actually appear on-screen in the Rhino version.
*When Rhino DVD Optimus Prime hurls a boulder at Megatron, Megatron still lights up to use Skywarp's teleportation ability to get out of the way... but after the teleporation glow effect fades, Megatron is ''still standing there''. The boulder ''flies straight through him'' with nobody seeming to care, including Megatron himself.
*When Megatron is talking to Starscream while the Constructicons are building the infuser machine, Starscream is colored like Skywarp.
**Speaking about the Constructicons being hard at work, this sequence is completely missing. We are instead treated to a shot of Megatron and Starscream standing silently for seconds.
*When [[Cliffjumper (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Cliffjumper]] runs up and uses his [[glass gas]], he is coloured like [[Bumblebee (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Bumblebee]].
[[File:HeavyMetalWar Mixmaster spray.JPG|thumb|upright=1.1|That sure isn't a cave you're in there, Mixmaster.]]
*The animation sequence of Megatron landing at the Autobot base ''is missing entirely'', and is replaced by looped animation from later in the episode of Megatron landing after a jump, along with a recycled snippet of Cliffjumper looking elated after encasing Megatron in ice from just a few seconds earlier.
*When Megatron lands, there are two Optimus Primes and Ironhides there to greet him.
*As the Autobots help Prime make his decision, the camera pans are missing, and the scene is instead shown as multiple, separate shots. Secondly, Wheeljack's light effects are mis-aligned. Finally, the added lens-effects in Prime's optics makes him look like he's about to cry.
*When the Constructicons move out to dig the passage to the Autobot headquarters, they're all shown outdoors instead of inside the base.
*A transformation sequence for Trailbreaker, recycled from "[[More than Meets the Eye, Part 1]]", still retains its exterior background even though it's supposed to happen inside Autobot Headquarters.
*When the Autobots arrive at the pit in vehicle mode, Ironhide is seen transforming from robot mode to vehicle mode. Then, he is back in his robot form.
*Where the finished episode tries to disguise the fact that the animators have drawn Prime towing his own trailer by coloring him life Huffer, in the unfinished animation used for the DVD, Prime is colored in his normal colors.
*Instead of using the finished shot, we see recycled animation of a standing Prime being hit when Megatron delivers his final blow. He should be lying on the ground.
*The animation of the lava is absent in a couple of shots.

But, uhhh, hey, that silver DVD case sure is shiny and pretty!

===Shout! Factory DVD release===
*Like "[[Countdown to Extinction (episode)|Countdown to Extinction]]" before it, the sound effects of this episode are cranked down to near-inaudibility, compared to the music and vocal tracks.
*This episode is also one of several affected by Shout!'s inability to obtain complete master reels to restore the incomplete animation used in the Kid Rhino releases, resulting in 1-inch tape versions being used instead. Picture quality is thus all over the map. The scenes of Megatron approaching Autobot Headquarters are noticeably under-lit. Several scenes are in visibly softer focus compared to shots before and after, such as the pan of Autobots as Cliffjumper says "I don't trust 'im!"

===Continuity errors===
[[File:Lineup.jpg|thumb|upright=2.2|"Where'd you get the Constructicons?" "We found them." "Found them? On Earth? Constructicons are Cybertronian!" "The Cosmos may fly into the sun or the Omega Supreme or the Astrotrain may seek warmer climes in winter, yet these are not strangers to our land." "Are you suggesting that Constructicons migrate?"]]
*This episode gives the first of [[Constructicon (G1)|three contradictory origins]] for the Constructicons.

*The building site that the Constructicons raid is a power plant. One of the construction workers states that it will be able to provide the whole planet with limitless energy, raising the question of why the Decepticons didn't raid such a powerful energy source for energon.

*So this head worker guy sees driverless, talking construction vehicles, that turn into giant malevolent thieving robots with the Decepticon symbol on 'em... but somehow he only figures out that they're Decepticons when Scrapper says they work for Megatron. Is Megatron's name more famous than all the defining aspects of his faction?

*Ironhide is apparently able to detect the Decepticons by himself, without relying on Teletraan I. However, in "[[The Ultimate Doom, Part 1]]", the Autobots were unable to detect the approaching Decepticons with Teletraan I sabotaged.

*Optimus Prime takes out Devastator with a single shot from his laser rifle, something rather at odds with the later portrayal of combiners as nigh-invulnerable. Maybe they were upgraded?

*It's a bit strange that Starscream of all mechs should be concerned with legalities and suggest that Megatron try to fight honorably... but there ''is'' a touch of sarcasm when he says "You wouldn't want to ''cheat'', would you, Megatron?"

*There is a rather ''huge'' hole in Megatron's "Destroy Teletraan I" plot: When the Autobots come back from Optimus Prime's defeat, wouldn't a burning-and-smoking Teletraan I ''immediately'' scream "Megatron DID cheat" rather than cover that fact up?

*Mind you, the Autobots confidently rely on Teletraan I to let them know if Megatron is cheating but then don't leave anyone monitoring it or have a real time communication link with it. It's only by the Decepticon's good graces that they were allowed to go back to Autobot HQ and check its findings before potentially taking up their exile in space.

[[File:DinobotsG1.jpg|thumb|upright=2.2]]
*The Autobots return to headquarters as the Dinobots have begun their battle with Devastator. They have time enough to repair Optimus Prime and detect the Decepticon deception, and meanwhile, the Dinobots are ''still'' fighting Devastator.
**On that note the Autobots don't even try to tell the Dinobots that they were leaving and the fight was over. Were the Autobots going to leave the Dinobots behind and strand them on Earth!?

*Speaking of which, didn't anybody notice the big flaming hole in the floor of Autobot Headquarters?

*So the Decepticons couldn't '''FLY''' out of the lava when they fell in?

*Doesn't anybody notice Megatron down there floating in the lava?

===Trivia===
[[File:SnarlG1.jpg|thumb|upright=1.1|''Transformers'' was anime before it was [[Transformers: The Headmasters (cartoon)|anime]].]]
*The art style of this episode has a distinctively Japanese flavor to it (in a handful of scenes), similar to that of "[[Roll for It]]" and "[[S.O.S. Dinobots]]". [[Masami Ōbari]]'s believed to be involved with this episode.<ref>http://mimizun.com/log/2ch/ranime/1118994758/</ref> [[Nobuyoshi Habara]] was also involved with the episode, working on some shots during the actual battle between Optimus Prime and Megatron, though which shots are unspecified.<ref>https://w.atwiki.jp/sakuga/?cmd=word&word=%E3%83%88%E3%83%A9%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B9%E3%83%95%E3%82%A9%E3%83%BC%E3%83%9E%E3%83%BC&type=&pageid=309</ref>
*The animation pretty much gets Devastator's transformation spot-on. Enjoy it while you can; it [[The Core|won't]] [[The Autobot Run|last]].
*Storyboards for this episode indicate that at one point in the scripting process, power chip rectifiers were also tied into the ability to transform. Upon giving up their rectifiers, the Decepticons lose their ability to transform, and during the fight, Megatron transforms into a jet! <ref>[http://cartoonpaperwork.com/network/dt/003.shtml "Heavy Metal War" storyboards at CartoonPaperwork.com]</ref>
*Scenes and dialogue deleted from this episode include Wheeljack showing off the latest improvements he has made to the Dinobots outside Autobot Headquarters (during which Megatron arrives), Scavenger referring to Scrapper with his working name "[[Gravedigger]]", Megatron using Soundwave's mind-reading powers on Optimus Prime during their fight, and Starscream sarcastically pointing out that the other Decepticons could help Devastator fight the Dinobots - except that they don't have their powers (to which Megatron retorts that "my Devastator needs no help").
**An extended portion of dialogue is also cut from Megatron's address to Optimus Prime, resulting in the rather clumsy line in the finished episode, "Our war has gone on for millions of years — Decepticons fighting Autobots — in which opposing leaders — you and I, Optimus Prime — may do battle." In the episode's dialogue script, following "Decepticons fighting Autobots," Megatron finishes his first sentence by lamenting the endless nature of the war. Prime shares in his regret, but deems it necessary as long as Megatron continues his pursuit of conquest. Megatron then speaks again, raising the topic of the "age-old law of combat," then picking up the finished line from "in which opposing leaders..."
**Ironhide's "sorry about that" non-sequitur is the result of a cut to the start of the scene: while watching the battle through the hole blasted out the side of the volcano and frustrated at not being able to join in, Ironhide slams his fist against the cavern wall, causing it to shake. He sheepishly apologizes.
[[File:RumbleisRed.jpg|thumb|upright=1.1|The "red robot" is clearly blue.]]
*During Teletraan I's montage of the sources of Megatron's acquired powers, the descriptions for the individual Decepticons are verbatim quotes from the [http://tfarchive.com/cartoons/bible/ Transformers Series Bible's "Decepticon Rollcall" page], albeit including several lost-in-translation typographical errors ("Decepticon Lider", "Decepticon Commicator", "Sky Warp"). The most notable of those is [[Rumble (G1)|Rumble]] (misspelled as "Runble") being identified as a [[FIRRIB|"red robot"]]. Furthermore, the seemingly random numbers listed on those screens are actually Hasbro's product codes for the respective toys. Interestingly enough, [[Reflector (G1)|Reflector]] is given a product number, even though he was never released at mass retail. However, the renditions of the Decepticons are ''not'' the official [[character model]] poses for those characters, but rather all-new drawings.
*The head construction worker's cry as Scavenger drops him is recycled from "[[The Ultimate Doom, Part 2]]" (from when Laserbeak kidnaps two security guards.)
*The episode's ending sure seems intended as a potential conclusion to the series, just in case it wasn't renewed for a second season. Turns out that ''Transformers'' was a bit of a hit, so that whole falling-into-lava thing was ignored (though it was alluded to in the [[title sequence]] animation for season two, as the Insecticons traverse in lava).
*The giant Autobot hologram image Hound projected went anonymous for 26 years until it received an identity at [[BotCon 2010]] as the [[Elite Guard]] member [[Halonix Maximus]].
[[File:RavagePet.jpg|thumb|upright=1.1|Who's a good widdle killy-kitty? YOU IS!]]
*When the Autobots and Decepticons are getting ready to watch the fight, Soundwave lets Ravage out and Ravage then sits beside Soundwave and audibly ''purrs'' while Soundwave pets him. This is both very cute and very creepy.
*Devastator referring to himself as "the Devastator" might be a leftover reference to the character's working name of "the Destructoid".
*When aired on [[Hub Network]]'s video-on-demand, the Kid Rhino version is used for some reason, even though Hub Network otherwise airs the original pre-Kid Rhino versions.

===Foreign localization===
'''French'''
:*''Title (European French broadcast):'' "'''Le sursis'''" ("The reprieve")
:*''Title (Canadian French broadcast & European French DVD release):'' "'''La guerre du métal lourd'''" ("Heavy metar war")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?
::*About the European French dub:
:::*All the scenes in which the Constructicons talk in vehicle mode are not dubbed. Only Scrapper is fully dubbed and Hook has one line when he talks in robot mode. This results in frozen shots of construction vehicles with catchy music. They must hate the Constructicons, since the same will happen [[City of Steel (episode)|a few episodes later]]...
:::*Scrapper introduces his colleagues with French names, "Perforeur", "Tronçonneur", "Creuseur", "Dévastateur", "Phénix" and himself. These names will ''never'' be used ever again in the series.
:::*Moreover, "Dévastateur" is used for both Bonecrusher and Devastator in the episode.

'''German'''
:*''Title (Generation 2 dub):'' "'''Der Zweikampf'''" ("The Duel")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[May 28]], [[1994]]

'''Italian'''
:*''Title (both dubs):'' "'''Il duello'''" ("The Duel")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?
::*In the first dub Huffer is called "Piedone" ("Big Foot") in this episode, despite his Italian name being Turbo.

'''Japanese'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Cybertron-sei no Okite'''" (せイバートロン星の掟, "The Laws of Planet Cybertron")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[September 7]], [[1985]]
::*In Japanese anime fashion, Megatron yells the names of several of the special attacks he's purloined from his minions; namely, Reflector's "Flash Beam" and Thundercracker's "Sonic Beam".

'''Mandarin'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Shuāng Xióng Dàzhàn '''" (双雄大战, "Fight between Double Leaders")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?

'''Brazilian Portuguese'''
:*''Title:'' "'''A Guerra dos Metaleiros'''" ("The War of the Metalheads")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?

'''Russian'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Voyna tyazhelogo metalla'''" (Война тяжёлого металла, "Heavy Metal War")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?

'''Serbian'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Sukob metalnih ratnika'''" (Сукоб металних ратника, "Battle of the Metal Warriors")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?

'''Latin Spanish'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Fuerte Guerra de Metal'''" ("Heavy Metal War")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?

===Toys inspired by this episode===
* '''''[[War for Cybertron: Kingdom]]'' [[Huffer (G1)#War for Cybertron: Kingdom|Huffer]] (2021)'''
:This Deluxe class version of Huffer is specifically molded to be able to tow the trailer of ''[[War for Cybertron: Earthrise|Earthrise]]'' [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generations toys#War for Cybertron: Earthrise|Optimus Prime]], recreating a scene from this episode.

==Home video releases==
{{homevidnote}}
;VHS
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] [[1986]] — ''The Transformers'' — Volume 10: "Heavy Metal War" ([[Family Home Entertainment]]) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] [[1987]] — ''Transformers'' — Heavy Metal Wars / The Girl Who Loved Powerglide ([[Tempo Video]]) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] [[1989]] — ''Transformers'' — A Ghost in the Machine / Heavy Metal Wars (Tempo Video) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] [[1990]] — ''Transformers'' — Heavy Metal Wars / The Girl Who Loved Powerglide ([[Tempo Video|Abbey Home Entertainment]]) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] [[2000]] — ''The Original Transformers'' — Volume 6: Evolution Revolution ([[The Original Transformers|Rhino Entertainment]])
;{{w|LaserDisc}}
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] [[1994]] — ''Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers'' — Convoy Set ([[TakaraTomy|Takara]]) — Japanese audio only. 
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] [[1998]] — ''The Transformers'' — Autobot Edition ([[Geneon Universal Entertainment|Pioneer LDC]]) — Japanese audio only.
;DVD
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] [[2001]] — ''The Transformers'' — DVD Box 1 (Pioneer LDC) — Japanese audio only. 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] [[2002]] — ''Transformers: Generation 2'' ([[Maverick Entertainment|Sony Wonder]]) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2002 — ''Transformers'' — Original Series: Volume Three (Sony Wonder) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2002 — ''Transformers'' — Complete Original Series: Deluxe Edition (Sony Wonder) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2002 — ''The Original Transformers'' — First Season Collector's Edition ([[The Original Transformers|Rhino Entertainment]]) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2002 — ''The Original Transformers'' — Volume Three (Rhino Entertainment) 
[[File:Flag of Australia.png|20px|Australia]] [[2003]] — ''Transformers'' — Collection 1: Series 1 ([[Madman Entertainment]]) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] [[2004]] — ''Transformers'' — Season 1 ([[Metrodome]]) 
[[File:Flag of France.png|20px|France]] 2004 — ''Transformers'' — Volume 4 ([[Déclic Images]]) — European French audio only. 
[[File:Flag of Australia.png|20px|Australia]] [[2006]] — The Best of ''The Transformers'' (Madman Entertainment) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2006 — ''Transformers'' — The Complete Generation One Collection (Metrodome) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] [[2007]] — ''Transformers'' — The Classic Episodes (Metrodome) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2007 — ''Classic Transformers'' — Series One: Part Two (Metrodome) 
[[File:Flag of Australia.png|20px|Australia]] 2007 — ''The Transformers'' — Complete Collection (Madman Entertainment) 
[[File:Flag of Italy.png|20px|Italy]] [[2008]] — ''Transformers'' — Volume 02: Stagione Uno Parte Seconda ([[Medianetwork Communication]]) — English and Italian audio. 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] [[2009]] — ''Transformers'' — Season One (Metrodome) 
[[File:Flag of Australia.png|20px|Australia]] 2009 — ''The Transformers'' — Complete Collection: Decepticon Edition (Madman Entertainment) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2009 — ''The Transformers'' — The Complete First Season: 25th Anniversary Edition ([[Shout! Factory]]) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2009 — ''The Transformers'' — The Complete Series: 25th Anniversary "Matrix of Leadership" Collection (Shout! Factory) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] [[2011]] — ''The Transformers'' — The Complete Original Series (Shout! Factory) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] [[2014]] — ''The Transformers'' — The Complete First Season: 30th Anniversary Edition (Shout! Factory) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2014 — ''The Transformers'' — Roar of the Dinobots (Shout! Factory) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2014 — ''Transformers'' — The Classic Animated Series (Metrodome)

==References==
{{reflist}}
==External links==
*[https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vbr04lZGZRfV8r8xDO7WeRH_HKAurRfQ Full episode script, finalised on 13th August 1984]
*[https://sunbowmarvelarchive.blogspot.com/p/the-transformers-mp-700-13-heavy-metal.html Gallery of full episode storyboards]

[[Category:The Transformers episodes]]
[[Category:Generation 2 episodes]]
[[Category:MSTF]]

Talk:Rik Thomas

2024-07-24T23:47:38Z

JoseBxR: /* TOUGH GUYS */

I also so busting out my DVDs when I get home and cataloguing everyone I can that was him. I don't have Victory, though! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 06:51, 25 November 2011 (EST)
:''Formerly a soldier in the British Special Forces, Thomas settled in Hong Kong following a tour in Vietnam'' Um, what? This makes it sound like he fought in the Vietnam war, which the UK didn't participate in? Or did they? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 13:15, 25 November 2011 (EST)
::I'd quite like to read the interview with Rik Thomas from ''Giant Robot'' - I'm sure it'd shed more light on this, but I haven't been able to find a copy online and issue 30 isn't available as a back issue on their web site. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:28, 25 November 2011 (EST)
:::I found some on eBay, and Interrobang's bought one. :) - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 04:57, 26 November 2011 (EST)
::::Excellent! Maybe it'll point us to some of the other actors too. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 05:05, 26 November 2011 (EST)
:: You can be stationed in countries without there being a war there. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 18:32, 25 November 2011 (EST)

== ''Giant Robot'' article ==

I'm skipping sections that aren't relevant to Rik (it's mostly the writer reminiscing about kung fu or explaining what dubbing is). [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 17:25, 5 December 2011 (EST)

===SHAOLIN DUBBER===
:words | Daniel Wu

[...]

====SLICK RIK====
Rik Thomas is a hardass, maybe even harder than the characters he voiced in kung fu movies. Even at 60, one look at Thomas' meaty hands reveals he is not some geeky anime voice actor. Formerly a lieutenant colonel of the British Special Forces who served in Vietnam and the Congo, Rik was discharged and settled in Hong Kong in the early '70s. In 1972, while tossing back a few pints in a pub, a stranger aksed Rik if he wanted to try dubbing. He said, "Why not?" and his second career began.

[...]

====TOUGH GUYS====
When Rik entered the world of dubbing, Golden Harvest and the Shaw Brothers studios were the top kung fu movie makers in Hong Kong. At the same time, urban Americans were eating up kung fu movies and the competing companies responded by furiously pumping out English versions of their products to pad their profits.

The ex-solder and his colleagues had no idea how many peopel were religiously watching the films—to the voice actors, the industry was just a way of making some extra cash. As they furiously dubbed every kung fu feature that made it to America, their voices buried themselves into pop culture fans' subconscious. Any movie with "One-Armed Swordsman." "Wu Tang," or "Shaolin" in its title probably has Rik's vocal stamp on it. As his eerily familiar voice recounts stories, I keep expecting him to blurt out in a warbly voice, "My Wu Tang sword will destroy you!"

Rik met Bruce Lee on the set of ''Game of Death''. Bruce would show off his speed and accuracy by snap-kicking Rik's tie and flipping it up in the air. Rik, who was an extra, finally got tired of being treated as the gweilo guinea pig and told Bruce, "You're very fast, but all it would take is for me to land one punch in the middle of your chest and both your arms and legs would fall off." After recalling this moment, he adds, "But, man, he was the fastest guy I've ever seen in my life."

The golden age of kung fu movies died out, but Rik's highly developed and specialized skills allowed him to keep working. Eventually he stated his own company, Omni Productions, which has dubbed everything from Communist propaganda films to Japanese TV dramas to the latest Hong Kong cinema for English-speaking markets around the world. With 15 to 20 voice actors working for him, he directs every project and considers himself "a big fish in a tiny drop of water." There are simply very few people with his expertise or experience in the field.

::This page almost makes it look like Rik established his own company as soon as he settled in HK, but that's fine, 'cuz I appreciate the backstory here. Judging from the many, many kung films I watched (understanding that film/video release timelines of English dubs didn't necessarily correlate with those of original theatrical releases), Rik had a long career working under the likes of HK voice legend Teddy Thomas and possibly others, at least a decade before Omni was founded. Speaking for myself, the specific quality of his voice seems to have changed at around the 90's; can't describe it, but for a while I actually didn't recognize several voices as Rik's looking at Omni's G1 output. It didn't quite match the stuff from his "heyday". FWIW, the "heyday" I refer to is the stuff us kung fu mavens remember about Rik most of all, long before we even knew his name. Easily the two most memorable characters are the infamous "Ghost-Faced Killer" from "Mystery of Chess Boxing" and the "Tai Chi" master from "Born Invincible", with the high-pitched "eunuch" voice. To me, ''that's'' classic Rik. [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 19:47, 24 July 2024 (EDT)

====SECRET HISTORY====
Rik is not exactly impressed with the work that comes form the Hong Kong film industry these days. "Hong Kong is about manufactured packaging of pop stars," he says. "Back in the old days, people had real skill and talent.Today, we have people like Edison Chen. He is a talentless, arrogant little bastard who thinks he's Leonardo DiCaprio. But you know what? It doesn't matter, because it sells! People out there are buying it. It doesn't matter if the movies are no good because they are making money, and that's the bottom line."

The bottom line about Rik is not his mountain of work, infamous voice, or encounters with Bruce Lee; it's the fact that he is a non-Chinese who has racked up an impressive 30-year career in the Hong Kong film industry. It just doesn't seem fair for someone liek that to be left out of the cinematic history books, but Rik is fine with it. Come to think of it, I don't give a shit about the guy who dubs David Hasselhoff's voice into German for the Euro version of ''Baywatch'', either.

:That's pretty awesome! I wonder if there are any good shots of him to be had in Game of Death. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:07, 5 December 2011 (EST)
::Unfortunately, the only image of Rik Thomas in the article is a tiny picture with the author. The other images are of random kung fu characters that I couldn't even begin to identify. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 18:17, 5 December 2011 (EST)
::If he's visible ''in'' Game of Death, then it's be in Clouse's footage, which means he wouldn't have even met Bruce to begin with. If he was involved in the original Game of Death concept, then he was never on camera because footage only involved Bruce, James Tien, Chieh Yuan, Dan Inosanto, Ji Han Jae and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Doing a bit of research, I'm starting to think he made that up. [http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2003/Aug/07/il/il01a.html Here] it's said the incident happened when he was auditioning for Way of the Dragon and issued his threat, which resulted in him not getting the part. It also claims he'd "known Bruce for a while". Then again a lot of the other "mythbusting" in that article just comes to "this one guy says otherwise", regardless of the validity of his claims. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:09, 4 October 2012 (EDT)

Soundwave (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity

2024-07-24T22:07:26Z

JoseBxR: /* Notes */

{{factions|decepticon}}
{{suite}}
[[File:Soundwave and company.jpg|thumb|upright=1.95|Can't touch this.]]
If you only remember two things from the ''Transformers'' cartoon, odds are one of them is Optimus Prime, and the other is '''that tape guy with the cool voice''' (or it's the [[animation error]]s but whatever).

==''The Transformers'' cartoon==
{{voiceactor|[[Frank Welker]] (English), [[Issei Masamune]] (Japanese)|[[Lin Dongfu]] (Chinese), [[Albert Augier]] (European French), [[Francis Lax]] (European French, "City of Steel" & "The Insecticon Syndrome"), [[François Leccia]] (European French, 5 episodes), [[Jacques Ferrière]] (European French, "A Prime Problem"), [[Georges Atlas]] (European French, 6 episodes), [[Bruno Magne]] (European French, "Child's Play"), [[Éric Etcheverry]] (European French, "Five Faces of Darkness, Part 2"), [[Michel Barbey]] (European French, "Webworld" & "Carnage in C-Minor"), [[János Bácskai]] (Hungarian, second "The Movie" dub), [[Mario Milita]] (Italian, seasons 1 & 2, first dub), [[Federico Di Pofi]] (Italian, seasons 1 & 2, second dub), [[Santo Verduci]] (Italian, season 3, second dub), [[Toni Orlandi]] (Italian, second "The Movie" dub), [[Giorgio Bassanelli Bisbal]] (Italian, ''40th Anniversary Event'' dub), [[Alejandro Abdalah]] (Latin American Spanish), [[Miroslav Bijelić]] (Serbian), [[Michael Rüth]] (German, seasons 1 & 2), [[Ulf Jürgen Söhmisch]] (German, "Roll For It" & ''Generation 2'' dub of "Fight or Flee"), [[Bernd Simon]] (German, most of season 3), [[Gerhard Acktun]] (German, "Webworld"), [[Thomas Rauscher]] (German, "The Movie" TV dub & ''Generation 2'' season 1), [[Christoph Jablonka]] (German, ''Generation 2'' dub of "War of the Dinobots", "Atlantis, Arise!" & "Auto Berserk"), [[Christoph Lindert]] (German, ''Generation 2'' dub of "Kremzeek!"), [[Gerd Rigauer]] (German, ''Generation 2'' dub of "Starscream's Brigade"), [[Gunnar Ernblad]] (Swedish), [[Charlie Elvegård]] (Swedish, Generation 2), [[Dario Lourenço]] (Portuguese), [[Garcia Neto]] (Portuguese, "Megatron's Master Plan, Part 1"), [[Marcos Miranda]] (Portuguese, "The Golden Lagoon"), [[Ulisses Bezerra]] (Portuguese, DVD dub), [[Ronaldo Magalhães]] (Portuguese, "The Movie" VHS dub), [[Gilberto Baroli]] (Portuguese, "The Movie" Fox Kids dub), [[Ladislav Cigánek]] (Czech)}}

[[File:Cybertronsoundwave.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.2|Before the tape recorder, he was a lamppost. It's hard to take him seriously sometimes.]]
Nine million years ago, during the [[Golden Age]] of [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]], Soundwave was one of [[Megatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Megatron]]'s first [[Decepticon]]s and was seen flying through the planet's skies alongside his leader and [[Shockwave (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Shockwave]] by [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Orion Pax]]. {{storylink|War Dawn (episode)|War Dawn}} When the [[Great War (G1)|Great War]] with the [[Autobot]]s erupted not long after, Soundwave served as Megatron's intelligence officer and most loyal subordinate, and as keeper of the [[Decepticon Mini-Cassette]]s, diminutive robots designed for espionage. While Soundwave was a nigh-constant battlefield presence, he would himself often play no major role in combat, more regularly being present merely to deploy his cassette minions, and, off the field of battle, to replay for his fellow Decepticons the information they would gather for him.

After five million years of war, Cybertron found itself in the throes of an energy crisis, and Soundwave was charged with spying on the Autobots to learn how they were dealing with it. Using his unconventional [[alternate mode]] as a space-age "lamp-post" to position himself on the street outside [[Great Dome|Iacon]], Soundwave was able to deploy [[Laserbeak (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Laserbeak]] to snoop even closer. Laserbeak discovered that the Autobots were preparing to depart Cybertron to search for new sources of energy on other planets, and Soundwave quickly took this news back to Megatron, prompting the Decepticons to pursue the Autobots' [[Ark (G1)|spacecraft]] when it left the planet. After navigating a treacherous meteor shower, the Decepticons intercepted and boarded the Autobots' ship, and battle erupted between the two factions, during which Soundwave displayed his prowess by holding his own against [[Jazz (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Jazz]], [[Prowl (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Prowl]], [[Sideswipe (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Sideswipe]], [[Ironhide (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ironhide]] ''and'' [[Ratchet (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ratchet]]. However, the fighting was soon cut short when the Autobot spacecraft was caught in the gravity of the nearby prehistoric planet [[Earth]] and crash-landed. The ship impacted with the side of a [[Mount St. Hilary|volcano]] in a collision so violent that all the Transformers on board, Soundwave included, were knocked off line.

[[File:Mtmte1 prepare the energon cubes.jpg|thumb|upright=1.2|Soundwave auditions for a guest spot on Baywatch as Mitch's hot sister.]]
Four million years later, in the Earth year [[1984]], a volcanic eruption jarred the ship's computer, [[Teletraan I]] back on-line, and it reactivated and repaired the Transformers indiscriminately, reformatting Soundwave with the Earthly alternate mode of a portable cassette player. Before the Autobots were restored, the Decepticons pulled out of the ruined hulk of the ship, and Megatron immediately charged Soundwave with drawing up plans for a new [[Victory (G1)|space cruiser]] to return the Decepticons to Cybertron. Soundwave then deployed [[Rumble (G1)|Rumble]] to help [[Starscream (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Starscream]] ransack a power plant to gather materials for construction, sent [[Ravage (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ravage]] to scare off humans who came to investigate, and dispatched Laserbeak to search the planet for sources of energy. Laserbeak soon returned to report his discovery of an offshore oil platform, which the Decepticons promptly attacked, gathering oil and storing it in the [[energon cube]]s Soundwave generated from his chest. The Autobots soon arrived to stop the Decepticons, but Megatron collapsed the rig, forcing the Autobots to save the human workers and allowing the Decepticons to escape. {{storylink|More than Meets the Eye, Part 1}}

[[File:Mtmte2 soundwave and teletraan.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.2|Ugh Megatron, there's no one here...they just left the TV on. Hello? Anyone?]]
Seeking to exploit the data that Teletraan I had gathered on Earth in its short time on the planet, Soundwave positioned himself close to the Autobots' base, where he transformed into his cassette player mode and allowed himself to be found by the Autobots' new human friend, [[Spike Witwicky (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Spike Witwicky]]. Unaware of the true nature of the unassuming tape player he had found, Spike brought Soundwave into the Autobot ship and then left him unattended, allowing the Decepticon communicator to release Ravage. The feline felon interfaced with Teletraan I and located the computer's data on energy sources, which Soundwave then recorded. Soundwave was soon caught in the act by Spike, but managed to escape to report to Megatron. Using the information Soundwave obtained, Megatron decided to attack [[Sherman Dam]], where Soundwave instructed Rumble to use his earthquake-generating powers to create a tidal wave that maximized the plant's energy output. {{storylink|More than Meets the Eye, Part 2}}

The Decepticons' raids continued apace, until only one more theft was necessary. As Megatron put his plan to attack an Air Force base together, Starscream attempted another of his infamous coups by trying to shoot him in the back, but Soundwave proved his loyalty to Megatron by warning his leader of the attack. The subsequent raid on the [[Cape Carlson|Air Force base]] went smoothly, and the Decepticons were at last poised to return to Cybertron when the Autobots made one last-ditch attack on their launch site. Soundwave and his tapes went into action, but Megatron soon called the battle off and ordered the Decepticons to board the completed space cruiser. Soundwave served as the ship's helmsman as it blasted off from Earth, but the flight proved a short one, as Soundwave discovered that the Autobot spy [[Mirage (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Mirage]] has used his invisibility powers to stow away. Before the Decepticons could react, Mirage had sabotaged the ship and sent it plummeting back towards Earth. With Soundwave unable to stop its descent, the ship crashed into the ocean, and the Autobots believed the Decepticons destroyed. {{storylink|More than Meets the Eye, Part 3}}

[[File:RollForIt SoundwavescansChip.jpg|thumb|upright=1.2|Soundwave performs telepathy for children's birthday parties]]
In truth, however, Soundwave and the other Decepticons had survived the crash, and after months of working in secret, reconstructed their spaceship into a [[Decepticon Headquarters (G1 Earth)|undersea headquarters]]. The villains revealed their continued existence to the world when Soundwave again used his inconspicuous tape player form to infiltrate a solar power plant and proceeded to take control of it, allowing the Decepticons to harvest its energy that they planned to send back to Cybertron over their new intergalactic "[[space bridge]]" transport system. Soundwave repelled an Autobot counterattack by wielding Megatron in pistol mode, but ultimately, the plan backfired when Megatron himself was caught in the space bridge's pull and believed destroyed, leaving Starscream to take control of the Decepticons. {{storylink|Transport to Oblivion (episode)|Transport to Oblivion}} Soundwave chafed under Starscream's inept leadership, and their first sortie with the air commander in charge ended in a comical defeat that saw Soundwave bowled over by Prowl as he ran away. Thankfully, Megatron soon returned, with a scheme to steal [[Alcazar|Doctor Alcazar]]'s [[antimatter]] formula, and Soundwave happily latched back onto his master. After Alcazar deleted the formula from his own computer, Soundwave used his mind-reading talents to acquire the formula from the brain of [[Chip Chase]]. {{storylink|Roll for It}}

[[File:FireontheMountain SoundwaveMegsgun.jpg|left|upright=1.2|thumb|Soundwave was actually Starscream's understudy.]]
Soundwave participated in a Decepticon attack on Autobot Headquarters when Optimus Prime was mistakenly believed to be fatally wounded. {{storylink|Divide and Conquer}} Soon after, during a scheme to drain heat energy from the [[Earth's core]], the Decepticons unearthed the frozen body of Starscream's old friend [[Jetfire (G1)|Skyfire]] in the North Pole. Soundwave helped reactivate him by delivering a million-volt shock to his systems, but Skyfire ultimately sided with the Autobots to stop the Decepticons' plan. {{storylink|Fire in the Sky}} Later, Soundwave and [[Reflector (G1)|Reflector]] were sent on a data-gathering mission, acquiring information about the [[Great Falls]] to facilitate a Decepticon attack on the hydro-electric plant there. {{storylink|S.O.S. Dinobots}}

[[File:Fireonthemountain soundwave vs brawn round1.jpg|thumb|upright=1.2|Soundwave's conscience is his guide, and he's not taking no crap offa nobody.]]
On a mission to the Peruvian Andes, Soundwave successfully proved that the legend of the Incan [[Crystal of Power]] was true when he deduced that the pyramid containing the fabled gemstone rested on a shaft leading to the Earth's core. On a mission to gather steel for a weapon frame to channel the crystal's power, Soundwave and Reflector were ambushed by [[Brawn (G1)|Brawn]] and [[Windcharger (G1)|Windcharger]] in mid-air, and Soundwave found himself driven face-first into a mountain by the small Autobot in the first of several clashes that they would engage in over the years. Soundwave tried to fight back with his own rifle, and even tried blasting Brawn with Megatron in pistol mode, but the little Autobot took everything he had to give and escaped in one piece. {{storylink|Fire on the Mountain (episode)|Fire on the Mountain}} Later, Soundwave's mind-reading abilities came into use again when he scanned the brains of the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobot]]s, [[Grimlock (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Grimlock]], [[Slag (G1)|Slag]] and [[Sludge (G1)|Sludge]], in order to determine their weaknesses. {{storylink|War of the Dinobots}}

[[File:Tud2 audio disruptor waves.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.2|Come to me, jungle friends.]]
When Megatron schemed to use the space bridge to transport Cybertron into Earth's orbit, he required human slaves to gather the energy that would result from the massive natural catastrophes such an action would cause. Soundwave and his cassettes were dispatched to capture [[Sparkplug Witwicky]], who served as a guinea pig for the mind-controlling [[hypno-chip]]s created by the Decepticons' new ally, [[Doctor Arkeville]]. {{storylink|The Ultimate Doom, Part 1}} The plan to transport Cybertron was subsequently accomplished despite Autobot interference, and Soundwave ensured that energy collection could begin quickly by forcing the Autobots to flee with a barrage of painful audio disruptor waves. {{storylink|The Ultimate Doom, Part 2}} Soundwave later transported a cache of energon cubes to the orbiting Cybertron, and was still there when a group of Autobots arrived, searching for the hypno-chip master control. In another encounter with Brawn, Soundwave was taken down by a single blast from his undersized rival, and then alerted the Decepticon forces on the planet to the Autobots' escape. It did little good, as the heroes were able to evade capture, find the hypno-chip control, free the slaves and blast Cybertron out of orbit.{{storylink|The Ultimate Doom, Part 3}}

Megatron was briefly thought destroyed by the explosion that pushed Cybertron out of orbit; Soundwave mostly kept himself above the fray though he took a shot at [[Thundercracker (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Thundercracker's]] inability to rein in their more [[Skywarp (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|tempestuous]] [[Rumble (G1)|comrades]]. Once Megatron returned to Earth, Soundwave immediately informed him of Starscream's latest play for leadership. {{storylink|Countdown to Extinction (episode)|Countdown to Extinction}} Soundwave later accompanied Megatron and Thundercracker to [[Bali]], where they met the [[Insecticon (G1)|Insecticons]]. {{storylink|A Plague of Insecticons}} Later still, when Megatron challenged Optimus Prime to a one-on-one duel, Soundwave and the other Decepticons contributed their [[power chip rectifier]]s to a machine built by the [[Constructicon (G1)|Constructicons]] that would transfer all their powers into Megatron, so that he could win the fight with ease. While Megatron never used Soundwave's powers in the duel,<ref>In the finished episode, that is. A scene deleted from "Heavy Metal War" saw Megatron use Soundwave's mind-reading abilities to deduce Prime's next attack move.</ref> he still claimed victory, but when his breach of the rules was revealed, he, Soundwave and all the Decepticons were sent tumbling into a river of lava by the fighting-mad Autobots.{{storylink|Heavy Metal War}}

[[File:Cityofsteel console destroyed.jpg|thumb|upright=1.2|God, I hate Vista so much!]]
As [[1985]] rolled in, Soundwave participated in a Decepticon attack on an Air Force base, {{storylink|Autobot Spike}} and helped in the construction of the [[Solar Needle]] in the jungles of [[South America]]. {{storylink|Changing Gears}} When Megatron sought to conquer [[New York City]], Soundwave, Rumble and [[Frenzy (G1)|Frenzy]] battled a group of Autobots in [[Central Park]], and Soundwave was later put in charge of the weapons systems of the so-called "[[New Cybertron]]" that New York was being turned into. That control was soon lost, unfortunately, when a stray blast from an irate Megatron destroyed Soundwave's console. {{storylink|City of Steel (episode)|City of Steel}}

Soundwave and his cassettes were next sent on a distraction mission, keeping the Autobots occupied while Megatron and Starscream snuck inside their base and sabotaged their [[recharging chamber]]s with a [[Personality destabilizer device]], narrowly avoiding another pounding from Brawn in the process. {{storylink|Attack of the Autobots (episode)|Attack of the Autobots}} After helping to steal [[electro-cell]]s {{storylink|Traitor (episode)|Traitor}} and the Autobots' new [[Wheeljack Instant Immobilizer|Immobilizer]] invention, {{storylink|The Immobilizer}} Soundwave was appointed to guard the captive Autobots after Megatron succeeded in trapping them in vehicle mode with the [[Transfixatron]]. The communications officer put his skills to work disabling the Autobots' communicators, but neglected to disable [[Hound (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Hound]]'s hologram projector, which the Autobot was able to use to summon the small number of his comrades who had not been affected by the Transfixatron. [[Wheeljack (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Wheeljack]] and Ratchet developed a grenade to undo the device's effects, and together, Spike and [[Chip Chase]] outran Soundwave and Ravage to detonate it and restore the Autobots. {{storylink|The Autobot Run}}

[[File:Dayofthemachines espionage.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.2|Let's see. Guitar, sound system and suspiciously plain brown box.]]
When Laserbeak and [[Buzzsaw (G1)|Buzzsaw]] stumbled upon the subaquatic city of [[Sub-Atlantica]], Soundwave immediately summoned Megatron to view their findings. Megatron and the Decepticons set out for the city at once, and forged an alliance with its leader, the boastful telepathic [[Nergill|King Nergill]], in order to conquer [[Washington, D.C.]] Starscream, however, did not trust the fish-man, and had Soundwave put his own telepathic powers to use to decrypt the scrambled messages Nergill repeatedly gave to his underlings. Soundwave discovered that Nergill was planning to betray the Decepticons, leading to the breakdown of their alliance. {{storylink|Atlantis, Arise!}}

Soundwave and Megatron used their [[size changing|diminutive]] alternate modes to infiltrate [[Quantum Laboratories]] as part of a plan to take over the computer [[TORQ III]]. {{storylink|Day of the Machines}} Later, Soundwave helped steal the human-made robot ninja [[Nightbird (G1)|Nightbird]] (finally getting one over on Brawn in the process by collapsing a balcony out from under him), and aided [[Bombshell (G1)|Bombshell]] in reprogramming the femme-bot to serve the Decepticons.{{storylink|Enter the Nightbird}}

[[File:Insecticonsyndrome soundwave cerebroshelled.jpg|thumb|upright=1.2|He bears the mark!]]
When the Decepticons discovered strange energy emanations coming from a crevice, Soundwave dispatched the [[Autoscout]] to investigate, discovering the crevice was filled with [[Korlonium crystal]]s. Megatron schemed to create a [[Optimus Prime clone|clone of Optimus Prime]] as part of a plan to harness the crystals' power, and while the plan failed, the clone was at least impressive enough to completely fool Soundwave, and he was in on it! {{storylink|A Prime Problem}} Subsequently, Soundwave took part in the Decepticons' plan to drill to the Earth's core, {{storylink|The Core}} and was then made a mind-controlled pawn of the Insecticons, who used him to download data from the human military defense computer at [[Iron Mountain]]. Megatron and Optimus Prime were forced to team up to stop the Insecticons and destroy the [[cerebro-shell]] controlling Soundwave, erasing the data he had gathered in the process. {{storylink|The Insecticon Syndrome}}

While spying on Autobot Headquarters, Soundwave learned of the existence of the mysterious prehistoric [[Dinobot Island (G1)|Dinobot Island]], and sent Laserbeak to follow the Dinobots as they travelled there. {{storylink|Dinobot Island, Part 1}} Soundwave proceeded to join the Decepticons in raiding the island's energy sources, before the Autobots, Dinobots and the island's native [[dinosaur (dinosaur)|dinosaurs]] saw them off. {{storylink|Dinobot Island, Part 2}}

Using his alternate mode to infiltrate a military testing site, Soundwave and his cassettes made a hard-fought but ultimately failed attempt to steal the Autobots' new [[Negavator]] weapon. {{storylink|Auto Berserk}} Later, when human archaeologists uncovered the wreckage of the Decepticons' old space cruiser in South America, Soundwave alerted Megatron to the news report about their findings, then accompanied him to the wreckage, where they removed the ship's power source, the [[Heart of Cybertron]]. Celebrating the new power that the Heart bestowed upon Megatron, Soundwave joined his fellow Decepticons in over-energizing on energon, leaving him too inebriated to do much of anything.{{storylink|Microbots}}

[[File:Masterplan2 disco dolly.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.2|All the ladies love Soundwave!]]
When Megatron framed the Autobots for energy theft and had them exiled from Earth, Soundwave took part in the Decepticons' pretense of being heroes. {{storylink|Megatron's Master Plan, Part 1}} Soundwave was quite popular among the humans: a young child was heard cheering for him by name, and when he and his cassettes attended a disco, he acquired many female admirers. After Megatron revealed his deception, however, Soundwave was made the slave-master of the work camp that [[Central City (Earth)|Central City]] was turned into. Thankfully, the Autobots soon returned to Earth to clear their names and rout the Decepticons. {{storylink|Megatron's Master Plan, Part 2}}

[[File:Dotd1 sneakiest soundwave.jpg‎|thumb|upright=1.2|He's ''good''.]]
In one of his most impressible displays of sneakitude, Soundwave was able to position himself, in tape player mode, ''inside'' Ironhide's vehicle mode, ''right next'' to [[Blaster (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Blaster]], and spy on the test run of the [[Ultra Plane]], with neither Autobot noticing until he deployed Ravage. While Blaster wrestled with Ravage, Soundwave escaped to report to Megatron, after which he and Starscream joined their leader in attacking the lab containing the blueprints for the plane. The Autobots saw them off, but during their flight away, the Decepticons' systems began to malfunction as a result of [[cybertonium]] degradation. Soundwave's cassettes began ejecting without his command, and his flight powers gave out, sending him crashing to the ground. {{storylink|Desertion of the Dinobots, Part 1}} Once repaired with fresh cybertonium from Cybertron, Soundwave joined the Decepticons on a mission to [[United Kingdom|Great Britain]]. {{storylink|A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court (episode)|A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court}}

Soundwave was among the Decepticons who were granted invincible [[electrum]] coating by the "Golden Lagoon". With their new power, the Decepticons captured [[Seaspray (G1)|Seaspray]] and [[Perceptor (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Perceptor]], but when Starscream attempted to have the two Autobots fight each other for the villains' amusement, Soundwave immediately ran off and tattled on him to Megatron. {{storylink|The Golden Lagoon (episode)|The Golden Lagoon}}

[[File:Child's Play Nitro Soundwave.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.2|Soundwave forever regretted wearing the novelty cat pheromone spray.]]
Following the Decepticons' alliance with the [[Geddis brothers]], {{storylink|Make Tracks}} Soundwave joined in the Decepticon attempt to create a space bridge in a baseball stadium, where he wickedly delighted in playing catch with one of the players (literally!). The Autobots soon arrived, and another brawl between Soundwave and Brawn erupted, ending when the small Autobot threw Soundwave into the space bridge. When a stray blast then activated the bridge, Soundwave and a small group of Autobots and Decepticons were inadvertently hurled to a world of alien giants. After being menaced by the huge cat [[Nitro (G1)|Nitro]] and trapped in a toybox by Nitro's owner [[Aron]], Soundwave was taken with the other Transformers to the planet's authorities for study and dissection. Ravage succeeded in freeing them, and the Decepticons all escaped back to Earth through a mock space bridge Perceptor created out of a telescope. {{storylink|Child's Play (episode)|Child's Play}} Upon his return, Soundwave was caught up in the menace of the [[Morphobot]]s, {{storylink|Quest for Survival}} analyzed the energy of an alien asteroid, {{storylink|The Secret of Omega Supreme (episode)|The Secret of Omega Supreme}} and helped operate the Decepticons' new [[energy magnet]]. {{storylink|Kremzeek!}}

[[File:Autobop soundwave vs blaster.jpg|upright=1.2|thumb|That's not sound, it's Darkseid popping up in the wrong universe.]]
After joining Megatron on a mission to [[Tlalakan (planet)|the planet]] of the [[Tlalakan (species)|Tlalakans]], {{storylink|Sea Change}} Soundwave embarked on one of his most notable misadventures when, under the command of Starscream, he set about brainwashing humans with ultrasonic vibrations inside the Decepticon-built nightclub [[Dancitron]] in New York City. This led to his first major confrontation with his Autobot communications officer counterpart, Blaster, with whom he engaged in a sonic duel. Soundwave had the upper hand in the violent jam session, until Blaster used the club's sound system to magnify his own sonic attacks and win the fight. {{storylink|Auto-Bop}}

When the Decepticons captured [[Hybrid Technologies]] heiress [[Astoria Carlton-Ritz]], Soundwave tried to use the [[psycho-probe]] to read her mind, but her innate ability to jinx machines made it a challenge, and eventually led to Soundwave and Rumble being electrocuted. When [[Powerglide (G1)|Powerglide]] subsequently caused the Decepticons' new sub-orbital base to crash, it fell to Soundwave to inform Megatron that the base didn't have any forcefields. Whoops! {{storylink|The Girl Who Loved Powerglide}}

[[File:Ktvs2 see you next fall.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.2|Doesn't have the heart to tell Megatron it's just chocolate wrapped in gold foil.]]
On a mission to recover some incriminating footage taken by a movie studio of their activities, Soundwave showed up Starscream by pointing out that while the air commander had recovered the film reel, he had not destroyed the negative. Soundwave then helped Megatron track the negative down, but they were tricked into thinking it was destroyed by [[Hoist (G1)|Hoist]]. {{storylink|Hoist Goes Hollywood (episode)|Hoist Goes Hollywood}} Soon after, Soundwave accompanied Megatron to Cybertron to give life to his new [[Stunticon (G1)|Stunticons]], helping him locate the [[Key to Vector Sigma|key]] to [[Vector Sigma]] and unlocking the door to the mega-computer's chamber. {{storylink|The Key to Vector Sigma, Part 1}} Upon their return to Earth with the now-living Stuncticons, Soundwave aided Megatron in analyzing the key to discover what other powers it possessed. By happenstance, its power to de-energize matter and turn it into metal was only discovered when Soundwave tripped and dropped it. {{storylink|The Key to Vector Sigma, Part 2}}

[[File:TransEuropeExpress Galata Valley.jpg|thumb|upright=1.2|"Soundwave, why always rings? I demand a parallelogram or two!"]]
Soundwave soon returned to Cybertron to take part in Megatron's plan to trap the newest addition to the Autobot ranks, the [[Aerialbot (G1)|Aerialbot]]s, in the distant past, {{storylink|War Dawn (episode)|War Dawn}} then went back to Earth and used his scanning powers to help Megatron locate the [[Pearl of Bahoudin]]. {{storylink|Trans-Europe Express}} Soundwave later had Laserbeak monitor the [[Cosmic Rust (disease)|Cosmic Rust]] infection spreading through the Autobot ranks, {{storylink|Cosmic Rust (episode)|Cosmic Rust}}, and had the cassette remove Starscream from Decepticon Headquarters after Megatron finally banished the perennial traitor from the Decepticon ranks. When Starscream returned with his own army, the [[Combaticon (G1)|Combaticons]], Soundwave was almost able to shoot the traitor in the back until [[Swindle (G1)|Swindle]] caused his shot to go wild. Soundwave tried to summon the Stunticons to help, and while they initially rebuffed him, they eventually arrived to tip the scales in Megatron's favor. {{storylink|Starscream's Brigade}}

Suspecting the Autobots had tampered with Megatron's new ruby laser cannon, Soundwave advised his leader to abandon the weapon, but Megatron was caught up in a battle-frenzy and ignored him. Predictably, the weapon promptly exploded. {{storylink|Masquerade}} For his final recorded adventure in the 20th century, Soundwave invented a device to control the flow of Earth's tides. Before the Decepticons could use it, however, it was necessary to blast the moon out of orbit to remove its controlling influence, so they developed an [[orbit disruptor cannon]] to do the job. Unfortunately, the cannon would only be operated by [[Bruticus (G1)|Bruticus]], and all the Combaticons save Swindle had been destroyed, so Soundwave installed a bomb in Swindle's head to give him the incentive to gather up their parts and rebuild them. Bruticus was restored, and Soundwave participated in the Decepticon attack upon Autobot Headquarters that served as a test run for the disruptor cannon, but the complex plot was foiled when three college students used [[B.O.T. (G1)|makeshift robot]] to destroy the cannon. {{storylink|B.O.T. (episode)|B.O.T.}}

[[File:Tftm dont leave me soundwave.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.4|Do you think I'd leave you dying, when there's room on my horse for two?]]
Over the course of the following twenty years, the Decepticons withdrew from Earth and focused all their efforts on conquering Cybertron entirely. By the year 2005, they had accomplished this goal, and the Autobots were consigned to their new "[[Autobot City (G1)|Autobot City]]" on Earth, and to bases on two of Cybertron's moon. Thanks to Laserbeak and Soundwave, Megatron learned of an upcoming Autobot strike against Cybertron, and resolved to cripple their war effort by destroying Autobot City. During [[Battle of Autobot City|the subsequent battle]], Soundwave was instructed to jam a distress call to Optimus Prime from Blaster, so he sent Ravage, Rumble, Frenzy and [[Ratbat (G1)|Ratbat]] to dismantle the communications array being used to broadcast it. Blaster's own team of cassettes fended Soundwave's off, and the call made it through, summoning Optimus Prime and a support team to aid the stricken city. A fateful final battle between Prime and Megatron ensued, which ended with Prime's death and Megatron mortally wounded. As the other Decepticons beat a hasty retreat, Soundwave demonstrated his loyalty to his leader by recovering his damaged body and carrying him aboard [[Astrotrain (G1)|Astrotrain]], but when it became necessary to jettison excess weight so that the Decepticons could safely make it back to Cybertron, Soundwave made no move to stop Starscream from setting Megatron adrift in space. In fact, with Megatron gone, Soundwave himself made a bid for leadership, declaring himself a superior choice to the Constructicons and deploying his cassettes to fight for his honor. Starscream ultimately emerged victorious in the fight for leadership, but during his coronation ceremony, Megatron returned, having been recreated by the giant transforming god-planet [[Unicron/Generation 1|Unicron]] into [[Galvatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Galvatron]]. Galvatron promptly killed Starscream, and Soundwave started cheering for his returned leader.

[[File:Ffod1 cons on chaar.jpg|thumb|upright=1.2|"I used to have [[Cyclonus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|that guy's]] job ya know". "Suuure, gramps, suuuuure".]]
Galvatron's leadership did not get off to a great start, however: Unicron soon attacked Cybertron, and while he was destroyed by the Autobot [[Matrix of Leadership]], Galvatron was lost to the depths of space, and the leaderless Decepticons, in a state of disarray after Unicron's attack, were easily routed and forced off Cybertron by the Autobots and their new leader, [[Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Rodimus Prime]]. {{storylink|The Transformers: The Movie}}
{{note|Soundwave’s involvement in these events, or events mostly similar, were also chronicled in the comic mini-series "[[Transformers: The Animated Movie]]" and the storybook "[[Transformers the Movie (Ladybird adaptation)|Transformers the Movie]]."}}

Low on energy, Soundwave and the other Decepticons were forced to relocate to the burned-out planet [[Chaar]], where they eked out a miserable existence on the brink of death. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 1}} When Rodimus Prime and Grimlock came to Chaar to investigate a mysterious attack on the [[Galactic Olympics]], Soundwave and the Decepticons attacked them, {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 2}} and were then later approached by the true instigators of the Olympics attack, the alien [[Quintesson]]s, with the prospect of an alliance. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 3}} Under the Quintessons' instructions, Soundwave and the other Decepticons launched an attack on the Autobots on the planet [[Goo 8739-B]], during which Galvatron returned, having been found by [[Cyclonus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Cyclonus]] and [[Scourge (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Scourge]]. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 4}} With Galvatron back in charge, Soundwave was amongst the Decepticons who were sent to Earth to try and stop [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]]'s [[Transformation cog|transforming cog]] from being delivered. {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 5}}

[[File:Cminor soundwave white noise.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.2|Disco! Disco!]]
In 2006, Soundwave went with Galvatron, Cyclonus, Scourge and the [[Sweep (G1)|Sweeps]] to search for [[isidrite]] in an asteroid belt. Soundwave dispatched Ratbat to search for the mineral, only for the cassette to discover that the Autobots were already mining it. {{storylink|Webworld}} Soon after, Soundwave accompanied Galvatron to the planet [[Eurythma]] to investigate a mysterious sonic weapon. They discovered that sound and music were the way of life on the planet, and Soundwave was entranced by the planet's perfect melodies, specifically the destructive [[harmony]] weapon, which was shared by three Eurythmans. One by one, Soundwave coerced from them each piece of the harmony, recording and combing them with the intention of turning the musical maelstrom upon Autobot City. He was defeated, however, when the Eurythmans countered the harmony with [[anti-sound]], and Blaster erased his recordings. {{storylink|Carnage in C-Minor}}

[[File:Ejectcall.jpg|right|thumb|upright=1.2]]
Soundwave was among those transfixed by a hypnotic Quintesson signal {{storylink|The Big Broadcast of 2006 (episode)|The Big Broadcast of 2006}}, then later aided in the Decepticon conquest of the peaceful planet [[Paradron]]. {{storylink|Fight or Flee (episode)|Fight or Flee}} Later still, during a battle on Earth's [[moon (moon)|moon]], Soundwave was shocked when his ejection system activated on its own, releasing Ravage, Ratbat, [[Slugfest (G1)|Slugfest]] and [[Overkill (G1)|Overkill]], who departed with all the other "[[Primitive]]" Transformers present to follow a mysterious [[Oracle (G1)|voice]]. An enraged Galvatron decided that punishing the deserters took priority over defeating the Autobots, and so Soundwave departed the battle alongside his leader and Cyclonus. As the three pursued the Primitives, Soundwave detected the very threat these Primitives had been summoned to fight, [[Tornedron]], who having just drained the Autobots on the moon now turned his sights on the Decepticons; the immobilized Soundwave was left floating in space. Thankfully, the Primitives succeeded in defeating Tornedron and restoring everyone's energy. {{storylink|Call of the Primitives}}

Soundwave later played back a piece of information gathered by Ratbat: two human scientists had discovered the body of Optimus Prime, which Galvatron resolved to destroy once and for all. {{storylink|The Return of Optimus Prime, Part 1}}

==Japanese cartoon continuity==
{{note|The events of American cartoon continuity, as detailed above, occur in the Japanese timeline, except the events of 2006 are pushed back to 2010. The Japanese continuity proceeds to insert many new storylines and events in, around, before and after the events of the Generation 1 cartoon, as covered below.}}

===e-HOBBY comics===
Early during Megatron's attempted conquest of Cybertron, Soundwave was among his troops of [[Seeker (body-type)|Seeker]]s and the [[Silver Company]], raiding Autobot energy warehouses. Their attack was cut short by the unexpected arrival of a [[Guardian robot]], who quickly trounced everybody. {{storylink|64 Cybertron Urban Defense Robot GADEP}}

===''Unite Warriors''===
[[Moonheart]] trained under Soundwave as a medic. {{storylink|Moonheart#Unite Warriors 2|''Unite Warriors'' Moonheart bio}}

===''Beast Wars Metals'' cartoon===
{{main|Soundwave (G1)#Beast Wars cartoon}}

===''Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers'' story pages===
Soundwave was one of the Decepticons who attacked New York City early in their conflict with the Autobots on Earth. {{storylink|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers (story page)#Part 1|Broadcasting on TV! Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers}}

When Soundwave learned that the Autobots were keeping themselves in shape by having a friendly race, he set up a trap within a narrow canyon, walling the Autobots in and opening fire on them. Luckily, [[Hound (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Hound]] arrived on the scene and delivered a powerful punch to Soundwave's chest, shattering his tape door once again. Soundwave immediately fled. {{storylink|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers (story page)|Anime Theater 2: Sic' Em, Hound!}}

Blaster battled Soundwave in what seemed to be the foothills of the Alps, while Perceptor kept the Decepticon communicator's cassettes busy. {{storylink|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers (story page)#Part 5|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers story page #5}}

===Scramble City===
{{voiceactor|[[Issei Masamune]] (Japanese)}}
[[File:Soundwave scramblecity.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.2|"Soundwave...you do know there are laws against exposing yourself, right?"]]
Before the 1980s were over, the Decepticons detected some unusual magnetic field fluctuations, and Megatron ordered Soundwave to send Ratbat, Laserbeak and Ravage to investigate. The cassettes discovered a hidden cavern where the Autobots were constructing a mighty battle fortress named "[[Metroplex (G1)|Scramble City]]", and Soundwave promptly took this information to Megatron. {{storylink|Scramble City: Mobilization}}

===''Legends'' comic (1)===
In the early days of the Transformers' war on Earth sometime between 1985 and 2004, Soundwave was among Megatron's Decepticons, waging war against the Autobots. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 6|Bonus Edition Vol. 6}} During an attack on the Autobots to steal their [[Transform Super Cog]] in the late 1980s, Soundwave sent [[Overkill (G1)|Overkill]] and [[Slugfest (G1)|Slugfest]] to take out the Autobots' intruder alarm before deploying [[Enemy (G1)|Enemy]], [[Wingthing (G1)|Wingthing]], [[Howlback (G1)|Howlback]], [[Garboil (G1)|Garboil]] and [[Glit (KP)|Glit]] to join the battle. {{storylink|Slugslinger's Ambition}} He was part of a group of Decepticons who fell in a pitfall trap prepared by [[Twin Twist]], but being Decepticons, they simply flew out. {{storylink|Jumpstarter Chapter#Operation: Destroy the Decepticons|Operation: Destroy the Decepticons}}

===''The Battle of the Star Gate''===
[[File:Soundwave stargate battles.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|left|Fear his [[Mickey Mouse]] ears.]]
In the 1990s, continued Autobot/human interaction led to a formal alliance being forged between the heroic robots and the American government and the construction of an interstellar teleport system called the ''[[Trigger]]''. Naturally, the ''Trigger'' space station was a prime target for the Decepticons, and Soundwave was instrumental in taking over the device, as he hacked into its systems and placed it under Decepticon control. Unfortunately for the Decepticons, the sole surviving member of the ''Trigger''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s crew, [[Makoto (Star Gate)|Makoto]], activated the system and blasted them into space before they could take control of it, and the Autobots soon arrived to send the Decepticons packing. {{storylink|First Contact (Star Gate)|First Contact}}

[[File:Stargatebattles soundwave and megs.jpg|thumb|upright=1.5|"You ever feel the magic has gone out of our relationship?" "Shut up, Soundwave".]]
Three months later, while the ''Trigger'' was still undergoing repairs after the damage the previous battle had caused, Soundwave patched through a transmission from Laserbeak, who was spying on a test run of the new human-built [[C-X]] battle droid. When the droid ran amok during the test and tried to kill Optimus Prime, the amused Megatron thought Soundwave was responsible for hacking the robot's systems, but Soundwave denied it. {{storylink|Divided Views}} In truth, the drone had been possessed by the time-displaced ghost of Starscream from the future, and he was not yet through making mischief in the past. Starscream's ghost teamed up with his present day counterpart, and together, the two Starscreams took control of the repaired ''Trigger'' and possessed it, transforming it into a giant, twisted robot form. Soundwave was among the massive armada of Decepticons and Autobots who battled the giant Starscream-thing, which was ultimately defeated when Prime and Megatron combined their power to destroy the traitor's new body. Soundwave and all the other Transformers were caught in the backwash of the explosion and sent tumbling towards Earth in uncontrolled re-entry, not to be heard from again for many months. {{storylink|The Battle of the Star Gate}}

===''Music Label''===
In 2007, Soundwave created a series of diminutive clones of himself, disguised as portable MP3 players, and disseminated them among the populace of Earth as part of a plan to brainwash the youth of the world with hypnotic music.

{{note|While the [[Japanese Generation 1 cartoon timeline|2007 Takara timeline]] placed the events of the ''[[Transformers Music Label]]'' storyline in the Generation 1 cartoon continuity, this is not without confusion. According to the ''Music Label'' story, Soundwave was foiled in this plan by Optimus Prime, who added a pair of speakers to his trailer that broadcast a frequency to stop the Decepticon's brainwashing. As Prime was ''dead'' at this point in the timeline, this can't have been how things went down in this version of events. However, [[Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 36|"Bonus Edition Vol. 36" of ''Legends'']] made reference to this event, so...it did happen somehow?}}

===Controverse===
At the trial of [[Primacron]], Soundwave and the Decepticons interrupted the proceedings for their own gain. Soundwave battled [[Grimlock (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Grimlock]] outside the Galactic Courts while sending his cassettes inside. {{storylink|Controverse}}

===''The Headmasters'' cartoon===
{{voiceactor|[[Issei Masamune]] (Japanese)|[[John Culkin]] (English, Omni Productions dub), [[Jesús Brock]] (Latin-American Spanish)}}

[[File:MysteryPlanetMaster BlasterVsSoundwave.jpg|upright=1.2|thumb|"Stop! I'm unarmed!"]]
The Decepticons went off the radar for the year that followed Optimus Prime's resurrection, but in 2011, they returned in full force. When Vector Sigma began to destabilize as a consequence of Optimus Prime releasing the energy of the Matrix, Galvatron led the Decepticons' newest troops, the [[Headmaster (technology)|Headmasters]], in an attack on Cybertron in an attempt to secure the computer and restore a Decepticon power balance to the planet. To prevent Autobot reinforcements from Earth reaching Cybertron, Soundwave and a legion of other Decepticons under the command of the faction's new Earth commander, [[Sixshot (G1)|Sixshot]], kept the Autobots on the planet busy in a large battle. {{storylink|Four Warriors Come out of the Sky}} In an attempt to learn the Autobots' plan of action, Soundwave and his cassettes infiltrated Autobot City, and although they were discovered by Blaster and his own cassettes, they were able to escape with the knowledge that the Matrix was hidden somewhere on Earth, and that the Autobots were preparing to search for it. Blaster and [[Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Hot Rod]] subsequently embarked on a search mission to the [[Arctic]], where Soundwave and his cassettes attacked them. Blaster covered Hot Rod's escape, and he and Soundwave engaged in a one-on-one battle, with shattered chests and severed limbs aplenty. It momentarily appeared that Soundwave had won the battle when Blaster collapsed, but seconds later, the fatal damage Blaster had inflicted upon him made itself apparent, as Soundwave's body exploded. His cassettes scooped up as much of his remains as they could and beat a retreat, but Soundwave was triumphant in death, as Blaster too died seconds later. {{storylink|The Mystery of Planet Master}}

[[File:ReturnImmortal Emperor Soundblaster.jpg|left|upright=1.2|thumb|He's gone black. Will he go back?]]
Soundwave's remains were brought back to Chaar by his cassettes, where the Decepticon Headmaster leader [[Scorponok (G1)|Scorponok]] was able to use the super-science of planet [[Master (planet)|Master]] to restore him to life. Reborn in a new black body, Soundwave was rechristened '''Soundblaster''', and following a reunion with his delighted cassettes, immediately went straight back to working for the Decepticon cause. Soundblaster was, in fact, instrumental to the Decepticons' newest plan, as he used his broadcasting powers to send signals from a sonic control device implanted in his chest to direct the actions of the villains' newest weapon, the [[Madmachine]], in another attack on Cybertron. As coincidence would have it, Autobot Headmaster leader [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress]] had also used the science of Master to restore Blaster to life as "Twincast", and the two rivals clashed for the first time in their new lives when the Autobot destroyed Soundblaster's sonic control and foiled the Decepticons' plot. {{storylink|The Great Cassette Operation}}

Soundblaster was among the Decepticons who invaded and enslaved the planet [[Beast (planet)|Beast]]. {{storylink|Rebellion on Planet Beast}} Later, he dispatched Ratbat to spy on the Autobots and learn more about a mysterious blackmailer holding six countries to ransom, reporting his findings to Cyclonus and Scourge. {{storylink|Terror! The Six Shadows}} Later still, Soundblaster and his cassette force were able to infiltrate Cybertron's lowest levels and spy on Vector Sigma, discovering that the mega-computer had developed a powerful new alloy named [[cybertonuron]]. Acting on Soundblaster's information, Galvatron staged a massive attack on Cybertron, {{storylink|Cybertron Is in Grave Danger, Part 1}} but Scorponok plotted treachery, planting a bomb in Vector Sigma's chamber in order to destroy the alloy, rather than let Galvatron gain its power. When Galvatron discovered this, Soundblaster attempted to stop him from going to Vector Sigma's chamber, but Galvatron ignored him, and paid for his hubris when the bomb detonated in his face, destroying the cybertonuron and reducing Cybertron to a burnt out husk. {{storylink|Cybertron Is in Grave Danger, Part 2}}

[[File:Hm11 reporting to scorponok.jpg|thumb|upright=1.2|Will the undead please stand up?]]
With Galvatron having disappeared in the destruction of Cybertron, Soundblaster met with the other senior Decepticons to discuss what should be done next. During their meeting, the shadowed figure of Galvatron appeared in the room, but Soundblaster quickly analyzed the newcomer's voice pattern, and realized it was not Galvatron, but Scorponok engaging in a bout of gallows humor. Shedding his disguise, Scorponok claimed that Galvatron was still alive, and that while he could not reveal where he was, he had commanded Scorponok to lead in his absence. None of the Decepticons were entirely convinced (in truth, it was a bold-faced lie), but Soundblaster, in need of a leader to follow, chose to accept it as truth, and followed Scorponok's command to send Ratbat to spy on the Autobot/human launch of the [[Sol 1]] satellite. {{storylink|The Shadow Emperor, Scorponok}} Soon after, when Scorponok began scheming to keep the Autobots occupied on Earth with various threads, Soundblaster and his cassettes kept an eye on the Autobots' movements and were able to inform their leader that his plans were working. {{storylink|The Dormant Volcano Mysteriously Erupts}}{{storylink|Head On!! Fortress Maximus}}

[[File:Hm14 soundblaster triggers bombs.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.2|Hey diddle diddle, what's there in the middle?]]
Following Scorponok's instructions, Soundwave directed the planting of [[plasma energy]] bombs beneath the surface of [[Mars (planet)|Mars]], in order to destroy the planet and harvest even more of the energy. {{storylink|Explosion on Mars!! Maximus Is in Danger}} At Scorponok's command, Soundblaster then recalled all available Decepticons to Chaar, where they all witnessed their leader's dramatic unveiling of his gigantic new Transtector. With this powerful new body, Scorponok kept the Autobots occupied while Soundblaster himself pressed the fateful button that detonated the plasma bombs and destroyed Mars. {{storylink|Explosion on Mars!! MegaZarak Appears}}

Soundblaster and his cassettes did not take kindly to the arrival of Scorponok's new intelligence officer, [[Punch (G1)|Counterpunch]], who irked Soundblaster with his remarkable ability to dig up information that Soundblaster couldn't. Of course, Soundblaster had no idea that Counterpunch was able to do this because he was really the Autobot spy, Punch, and so he and his cassettes set out to prove themselves by going to Earth to see what Autobots secrets they could unearth. Unable to find any information, Soundblaster was moping around the Decepticon Earth base when a story suddenly dropped itself right into his lap: a glowing UFO descended from the sky and abducted Sixshot right before his eyes! Soundblaster attempted to report his findings to Scorponok during a battle with the Autobots on Earth's moon, but there and then, the UFO reappeared, and its owner was revealed to be Galvatron, who had survived his appeared destruction and retook leadership of the Decepticons. {{storylink|Return of the Immortal Emperor}}

[[File:Hm23 soundblaster draws.jpg|thumb|upright=1.2|Sound doesn't travel in space, moron.]]
Soundblaster and the Decepticon Headmasters were manning the scanners at the Decepticon base on Chaar when the [[Horrorcon (G1)|Horrorcons]] arrived to join up with Galvatron's forces. {{storylink|Daniel Faces His Biggest Crisis Ever!!}} Soon after, Soundblaster joined the Decepticons on a series of interplanetary energy raids, helping to scan the spaceways and communications channels to keep his leader appraised of Autobot and alien activity as they went from planet [[Hive (planet)|Hive]] {{storylink|Fight to the Death on Planet Hive!!}} to [[Twin Star]] {{storylink|Battle for Defense of the False Planet}} to [[Daros]]. {{storylink|Find MegaZarak's Weak Spot!!}} The Decepticons' quest eventually brought them to [[Pirate Planet]], where they were stymied in their pursuit of the planet's fabled energy by their inability to enter the pyramid that held it. Soundblaster observed [[Highbrow (G1)|Highbrow]] and [[Daniel Witwicky (G1)|Daniel Witwicky]] departing for the field of debris near the planet, and, suspecting they knew something he didn't, followed them. Soundblaster proceeded to ambush the two heroes and demand they share their information, but Daniel was able to get the drop on the Decepticon with his video game light gun, which Highbrow had amped up into a real weapon. {{storylink|Mystery of the Space Pirate Ship}}

When the Decepticons returned to Earth, Sixshot proceeded to lead a series of major attacks upon the Autobot forces. Soundblaster reported to Galvatron on the departure of Fortress Maximus from Athenia, and suggested sending Scorponok to keep him busy. Galvatron was wary, knowing Scorponok had his own agenda, but Soundblaster vowed to follow him and keep an eye on him, and Galvatron agreed. However, Soundblaster was surprisingly lax in his duty, as Scorponok didn't bother engaging Fortress, and Soundblaster didn't report this at all! {{storylink|Ultra Magnus Dies!!}}

[[File:Hm30 soundblaster in hiding.jpg||left|thumb|upright=1.2|Grand Cybertron Hide N'Seek Champion, 7 million years running.]]
Following Galvatron's death at the hands of the Headmasters and Scorponok's subsequent re-assumption of Decepticon leadership, Soundblaster was among the Decepticons who travelled with his new leader to the planet [[Master (planet)|Master]]. {{storylink|Miraculous Warriors, Targetmasters (Part 2)}} When the Autobots followed them there, Soundblaster boldly infiltrated their spaceship, the ''Maximus'', and spied on them with Ratbat. When he was discovered, however, he leapt overboard and flew back to the surface of Master, inadvertently leading the Autobot [[Targetmaster (technology)|Targetmasters]] to the Decepticons' hidden subterranean base. {{storylink|The Zarak Shield Turns the Tide}} Soundblaster was able to repay them in kind after a later battle, though, when he stealthily followed the retreating Targetmasters and discovered that the Autobots had started working with the young warriors of Master. {{storylink|Operation: Destroy the Decepticons}}

After Scorponok successfully completed construction of his new [[Zarak Shield]] weapon, the Decepticons headed back to Earth, but as they were passing through the asteroid belt, Soundblaster noticed a malfunction in their propulsion system that required them to set down for repairs. While they were resting there, Soundblaster detected the approach of an object, which turned out to be Sixshot, who had become separated from the Decepticons on an earlier leg of their journey. {{storylink|Duel on the Asteroid}}

Finally, once the Decepticons returned to Earth, Scorponok began raising "[[Death Tower]]s" of [[crysmagnetal]] at strategic points around the Earth, intending to use them to tear the planet apart. While on patrol in the Alps, Soundblaster observed the passage of the Autobots' battleship, and radioed the Decepticons in Egypt to let them know of their enemies' approach. Subsequently, with all the Death Towers in place, Soundblaster participated in the climactic battle between the Autobot and Decepticons armies at the South Pole, which ended when Fortress Maximus destroyed Scorponok's Transtector and saved the planet. {{storylink|The Final Showdown on Earth (Part 2)}}

===''Legacy VS500 Collection Special Comic''===
Soundblaster was at the second week of the [[Speedia 500]] race on [[Velocitron]], where he attempted to ambush [[Blaster (G1)|Twincast]] and [[Rewind (G1)|Rewind]]. {{storylink|Velocitron Speedia 500 Part 3}}

===''Legends'' comic (2)===
In the year 2021, Soundblaster joined the revived Scorponok in a scheme to use a [[black hole]] to create plasma energy. The scheme backfired thanks to the interference of Fortress Maximus and his Autobots, causing the black hole to release smaller black holes called "[[Blackball]]s". Soundblaster was among the Decepticons struck by a Blackball, which began causing his body to shrink. To avoid destruction, the afflicted Autobots and Decepticons traveled to the Legends World to receive new Headmaster upgrades. Soundblaster and the other Decepticons sought their upgrades from [[Tarantulas (BW)|Tarantulas]], who gladly cooperated, though he seemed to have ulterior motives. {{storylink|Headmaster Chapter Prologue}} {{storylink|Targetmaster Chapter Prologue}}

The Decepticons joined forces with Tarantulas's employer, [[Tera-Kura Co.]], creating a "Decepticon Tera-Kura Co." in which Soundblaster once more served as communications officer. He had Laserbeak spy on their rivals, the Autobot [[Axalon Trading Company]], and steal data the Decepticons could use to build [[transtector]]s. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 22|Bonus Edition Vol. 22}} After [[Skullcruncher (G1)|Skullcruncher]] went on a rampage in his new body, Soundblaster attended a meeting during which the company's chairman, Megatron from another time period, chewed them out for resorting to violence. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 23|Bonus Edition Vol. 23}}

Soundblaster continued his rivalry with Twincast in his universe, but fell behind when the Autobot acquired a transtector that let him become Blaster again. Noting that the [[Zodiac]] had let Blaster reshape his body into a base mode, Soundblaster established a new [[Dancitron]] and hypnotized the guests into attacking Blaster, distracting him while Soundblaster stole the Zodiac and used its powers in reverse to transform the Dancitron into a transtector based on his original body. Reclaiming the name of Soundwave, he revealed that since Blaster had left the Autobot army to become an artist, he saw no value in besting him in battle and vowed to defeat him on the battlefield of his choice—the music industry. [[Devil Z]] disapproved of his resignation from Decepticon Tera-Kura Co. and attacked him using a transtector powered by a captive Megatron, but Soundwave freed his leader and bested Devil Z with help from Blaster, who shared data on the [[harmony]] with him. Their alliance was temporary, however, as Soundwave was enraged to learn that Blaster had made the harmony playable only once. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 36|Bonus Edition Vol. 36}}

Upon learning from Laserbeak that the Decepticons loyal to Scorponok were trying to overthrow Megatron by rebuilding [[Trypticon (G1)|Trypticon]], Soundwave reported his findings to Megatron. He fought with Megatron's troops to defend [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]]'s [[transformation cog]] from the rival Decepticon faction, but they failed. {{storylink|LG43 Trypticon Mobilization Chapter: Decepticon Civil War|Decepticon Civil War}} He was then knocked out during [[Slugslinger (G1)|Slugslinger]] [[anti-electron]] attack on all all Transformers in the city. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 55|Bonus Edition Vol. 55}} When [[Quintesson]]s invaded the Legends World in spite of having been defeated by 2021, Soundblaster theorized that they were likely time travelers from the past. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 59|Bonus Edition Vol. 59}} During a [[Concurrence]] attack, he also explained how the attackers had used [[synthoid]] technology to turn [[Megatron (BW)|Beast Megatron]] purely robotic. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 63|Bonus Edition Vol. 63}} Soundblaster later witnessed the [[Twin Twist]] remove the Zodiac from his transtector. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 65|Bonus Edition Vol. 65}}

Soundwave was among the Decepticons who defended the city from [[Majin Zarak]]'s attack, {{storylink|Targetmaster Chapter Finale: Legends World in Imminent Danger! Part One|Legends World in Imminent Danger! Part One}} and stood by as Megatron ordered the evacuation of the doomed Legends World. {{storylink|Targetmaster Chapter Finale: Legends World in Imminent Danger! Part Two|Legends World in Imminent Danger! Part Two}} Soundwave and the other Transformers from the Headmaster era returned to their own dimension in the year [[2023]], appearing on the planet [[Beast (planet)|Beast]] and assisting its [[Beastformer]]s in their war with the [[Laser Beast]]s. {{storylink|The Road to Legends' Revival Chapter 1}}

At some point returning to not being a Headmaster and as Soundwave instead of Soundblaster, he then waited until Megatron's own return in [[2038]], keeping mum about already having met his leader's future self in order to avoid causing a time paradox. {{storylink|The Road to Legends' Revival Chapter 2}} The Decepticons aboard [[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]] made contact with Optimus Prime, hoping to reinstate the [[Cybertron Alliance]] in order to pool resources for the reconstruction of the Legends World. However, they were attacked in transit by the mysterious Unicron Neo. {{storylink|The Road to Legends' Revival Chapter 4: LG-EX Big Powered Prologue Part One|LG-EX Big Powered Prologue Part One}} In fact, "Unicron Neo" was [[Dark Nova]], a malevolent entity that kidnapped Megatron and forced him to merge with it again to become the [[Dark Nova|Star Giant]]. Soundwave and the Decepticons arrived on [[Micro|Zone]] to warn its Autobot defenders that Megatron was not a willing component of the Star Giant. {{storylink|The Road to Legends' Revival Chapter 5: LG-EX Big Powered Prologue Part Two|LG-EX Big Powered Prologue Part Two}} The Decepticons were helpless to attack the Star Giant without hurting Megatron, but his old foes the [[Powered Master]]s had no compunctions against doing so. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. EX 1 Sonic Bomber Chapter|Sonic Bomber Chapter}} They tried to defend him, but [[Dai Atlas (G1)|Dai Atlas]] struck them down mercilessly to cut a path towards the Star Giant. At the last moment, however, Dai Atlas recognized Megatron was holding the Star Giant back. He still destroyed the threat, but agreed to lend the support of his [[Powered Engine]] to help restore the Legends World and, potentially with it, Megatron. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. EX 3 Dai Atlas Chapter|Dai Atlas Chapter}}

On behalf of Megatron and in accordance with his last wishes, Soundwave lay down arms for the Decepticons and lent support to the Legends restoration project. With the Powered Engines, the [[Zodiac]], proton energy, the [[Zamojin (species)|Zamojin]], and many other components, the Legends World was restored and its people rebuilt Megatron as well. He spent some time among them again as Mayor Megatron before returning to the G1 World. With Soundwave in attendance, Megatron formally reinstated the Cybertron Alliance in a handshake with Optimus Prime. {{storylink|Transformers Legends Final Chapter "Epiloge"|Epiloge}}

===''Generations Selects Special Comic''===
In [[2050]], Soundwave was one of the Decepticons supporting the [[Selector]] revolt at [[Neo Scramble City]]. {{storylink|Volcanicus comic 1}} He was overpowered by [[Grimlock (G1)|Grimlock]] when the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobot]]s stood against the revolution. {{storylink|Volcanicus comic 2}}

==''TV Magazine'' comic continuity==
[[File:Soundwave srlf manga.jpg|thumb|It's like if Power Rangers had really cheap zords.]]

===''Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers'' comic===
In the late 1980s, while Megatron and the Decepticons engaged the Autobots in battle in Arizona, Soundwave and his cassettes were dispatched to do something unspecified (but likely ''evil'') in [[Tokyo]]. Optimus Prime dispatched a unit of Autobots led by [[Bumblebee (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Bumblebee]] and [[Kenji]] to track them down. He was ultimately defeated when Bumblebee got the drop on him with a patented "Bumble-Kick" and shattered his chest. This made it impossible for his cassette forces to return to him, leaving them to be captured as well. {{storylink|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers issue 2|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers #2}} When he next appeared, Soundwave hadn't quite got over his injuries, and was seen with bandages stuck to his chest-window. {{storylink|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers issue 3|Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers #3}}

===''The Headmasters'' comic===
[[File:Hm manga8 master chrome hurricane.jpg|thumb|left]]
After their [[2011]] defeat at the North Pole, the Decepticons were preparing to retreat from Earth entirely when Scorponok instructed Soundblaster to remain on the planet in secret to act as a spy for the Decepticons. Soundblaster proved that he wasn't up to the challenge by making his presence and intentions known almost instantly when he kicked [[Wheelie (G1)|Wheelie]] square in the face and took the [[Witwicky (surname)|Witwicky]] family hostage. [[Chromedome (G1)|Chromedome]] was left powerless to do anything but surrender, as [[Slugfest (G1)|Slugfest]] and [[Overkill (G1)|Overkill]] brutalized [[Spike Witwicky (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Spike]] and threatened [[Carly]]. Daniel was propelled into action by his family's peril, leaped onto Slugfest, and tricked him into charging into Overkill. This left Soundblaster open to Chromedome's poorly named "Master-Chrome Hurricane Throw to the End of Hell!" Chromedome chucked Soundblaster over the horizon, and when he recovered from his fall, he found Sixshot staring down at him. Demanding to know what Sixshot wanted, Soundblaster was informed that the six-changer was no longer affiliated with the Decepticons, and wanted to travel from planet to planet, learning new transformations. One day, Sixshot told him, he wanted to learn how to transform into a human! Soundblaster was left absolutely dumbfounded by this, unable to even compute such a concept, and wagering it would be a few million years before he could. {{storylink|The Headmasters issue 8|The Headmasters #8}}

===''Super-God Masterforce'' comic===
The image of Soundwave was among the holograms of older Decepticons projected by [[King Poseidon]] to deceive and confuse the Autobots under [[Ginrai (human)|Ginrai]]'s command. {{storylink|Burn, Chokon! New Commander Super Ginrai!}}

==Full Throttle Scramble Power!==
[[File:Fullthrottle tape fight.jpg|thumb|My buddy!]]
Soundwave was present when the Decepticons terrorized the Earth with their new "[[Omega Wave Cannon]]" cannon and captured the Autobots' human allies [[Tōru]] and [[Jenny (G1)|Jenny]]. When the two humans tried to escape, Soundwave released Ravage to stop them, but Blaster then appeared to dispatch the cassette. Blaster and Soundwave proceeded to grapple as more Autobots arrived and the battle grew bigger and bigger, and when Metroplex arrived, he actually collided with Soundwave and knocked the Decepticon for a loop. {{storylink|Full Throttle Scramble Power!}}

==''Transformers Legends'' anthology==
Soundwave was extremely amused by the footage Laserbeak and Ravage gathered of Starscream falling on his head. He let Megatron know, and they went to pick up Starscream, only to find him gone, taken by the Autobots. The discovery that Starscream appeared to be working with the Autobots only amused Soundwave more, and the Decepticons went to retrieve their former comrade. When it turned out that Starscream wanted to stay with the Autobots, Megatron was enraged, and Soundwave reflected that it was the most fun he'd had in years. Starscream eventually returned to the Decepticons, claiming it was all an act, and Soundwave suggested he should be more careful while mountain climbing in future. {{storylink|Redemption Center}}

==Madman ''The Transformers'' comic==
[[File:Madman comic Soundwave ejects tapes.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|He's a good guy. Animals like him.]]
In 2001, Soundwave and his squad of cassettes were deployed to the construction site of [[Autobot City (G1)|Autobot City]] while the balance of the Autobot forces were engaged in an evacuation of Cybertron. He managed to record a secret conversation between Optimus Prime and [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ultra Magnus]] where the Autobot leaders discussed hiding the Autobot [[Matrix of Leadership]] in a bunker at the build site, against the chance Prime would be captured or destroyed while off-world. Soundwave returned to the not-so-secret bunker and deployed his minions to dig up the Matrix. Just as the artifact had been secured and Soundwave was about to call for retrieval, the young Autobot [[Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Hot Rod]] took the Matrix and defeated Soundwave's team. {{storylink|The Transformers (Madman)|The Transformers}}
{{--}}

==''Wings Universe''==
{{Wingsnote}}
When [[Megatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Megatron]] captured [[Deathsaurus (G1)|Deathsaurus]]'s base, Soundwave was by his side. After defeating Deathsaurus in single combat, Megatron ordered Soundwave to check the computers for information on [[Combiner]] technology, and sent [[Starscream (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Starscream]] with him. A week later, Soundwave was part of the Decepticon forces who entered [[Iacon (polity)|Iacon]] after [[Devastator (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Devastator]] breached the city walls. {{storylink|Battle Lines, Part 5}} He was still by Megatron's side when Devastator fell, and took part in the subsequent retreat. {{storylink|Battle Lines, Part 6}}

In [[2012]], Soundwave's face was on a computer screen in [[Jhiaxus (G2)|Jhiaxus]]'s laboratory as Jhiaxus was creating [[Soundwave (G2)|a clone of him]]. {{storylink|A Flash Forward, Part 2}}

Circa [[2013]], Jhiaxus cloned Soundwave yet again to create [[Soundwave (MW)|a clone commander]] of him. {{storylink|Termination}}

[[Tornado]] disliked [[Laserbeak (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Laserbeak]] and [[Buzzsaw (G1)|Buzzsaw]] because as Soundwave considered himself superior, they considered themselves superior by extension. {{storylink|Tornado - Decepticon Saboteur|Tornado - Decepticon Saboteur, 2015/01/07}}

==''Mars Attacks: The Transformers''==
[[File:Mars Attacks The Transformers - Get him off me!.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66]]
Following a defeat at the hands of the Autobots, the Decepticons were [[stasis cuffs|stasis cuffed]] and taken away by humans. A [[Martian]] invasion gave them the opportunity to slip their bonds and attempt to form an alliance with the invasion, but when the Martians trapped them in a [[force field]], the Decepticons were forced to align with the Autobots instead. Soundwave and [[Blaster (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Blaster]] combined their power to bring the force field down. When Megatron was later reduced to the size of a toy by the Martians, Soundwave successfully reversed the effects of the shrink ray. {{storylink|Mars Attacks: The Transformers}}

==''Cloud''==
Soundwave was one of several Decepticons who wound up on the receiving end of a beating from a [[Megatron (G1)#Cloud|Megatron from another universe]], as he fought his way through them to get to [[Optimus Prime (G1)#Cloud|his world's Optimus]] and the super-powerful entity [[SARA]]. {{storylink|TFC-A01}}

==Ask Vector Prime==
In one iteration of the battle of Autobot City, those dimensional hoodlums [[Sideways (AVP)|Sideways]] and [[Gong (GoBots)|Gong]] decided to spice things up by throwing some [[GoBot]]s into the mix. Accordingly, the usual war for Autobot City became a contest for ''[[Guardian (GoBots)|Guardian]]'' City instead; in this version of the battle, Soundwave and his cassettes were responsible for offlining [[Hi-Way]] and [[Street Heat]]. When Megatron fell in his duel against [[Leader-1 (GoBots)|Leader-1]], Soundwave, loyal as ever, carried him to safety. After history blipped again, Soundwave was replaced by [[Doctor Go|Dr. Go]] and [[Warpath (GoBots)|Warpath]] in the combined Decepticon-Renegade force. Thus aboard Astrotrain, it was Dr. Go who mocked [[Tic Tac]]'s declaration of leadership, neutralized the gestalt [[Puzzler]], and was tackled by [[Snoop (GoBots)|Snoop]]. Later, after Galvatron killed the upstart [[Zero]], Warpath was asked by [[Clutch (GoBots)|Clutch]] what the new arrival called himself. {{storylink|Echoes and Fragments}}

==''Deviations''==
In an alternate universe where Megatron died at Autobot City, Soundwave was one of the many Decepticons who were forced to retreat aboard Astrotrain.
Back on Cybertron, Soundwave was present to witness Starscream's coronation. The ceremony was interrupted by Unicron, who chose to reformat Starscream into his new servant "Megascream." As part of Starscream's bargain, Soundwave was one of the warriors who received enhancements.

During Unicron's final attack on Cybertron, Soundwave accompanied Megascream when the Decepticon leader attacked Optimus, and merged with Megascream to form a massive combiner. Soundwave was presumably killed when Hot Rod opened the Matrix shortly afterwards. {{storylink|Transformers: Deviations|Deviations}}

==Notes==
[[File:SoundwaveButtonUD3.jpg|upright=1.1|thumb|"When I think about you, I touch myself."]]
*The Generation 1 cartoon almost always depicted him as having to press all his own controls to eject minions or perform other functions, even though these are actually part of him. This resulted in many, many shots of Soundwave touching his crotch. What will the children think?
*According to the original script<ref>http://boltax.blogspot.com/2011/02/ron-friedman-auctions-scripts-part-3-of.html</ref> for "[[More than Meets the Eye, Part 1]]", "Sound Wave" transformed into "a LIGHT STANDARD - identical to the one that exists a short distance away, the perfect camouflage". So... yes, he really ''did'' turn into a lamppost on Cybertron.
*Soundwave's distinctive voice proved to be one of Generation 1's most memorable aspects. The {{w|Vocoder|highly processed voice}} (processed by [[Scott Brownlee]]) began with [[Frank Welker]] basically doing his "Dr. Claw" voice from ''{{w|Inspector Gadget}}''. Whether due to variations in the performance or the processing, the final result varied quite a bit across Soundwave's three seasons on the show. Occasionally, as in the episodes "[[Roll for It]]", "[[Carnage in C-Minor]]" and "[[Webworld]]", the processing was left out and Welker's actual voice can be heard. This Dr. Claw version of Soundwave's voice made a return when Welker reprised the [[Soundwave (ROTF)|role]] for ''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen]]'' and ''[[Transformers: Dark of the Moon (film)|Dark of the Moon]]'' as the processing was, again, left out.
*Similarly, he often emphasizes words at random, such as his well-known "RavAAAAAGE", or "LAAZABEEK". This may be a side effect of the voice doctoring in the cartoon.
*In the Mandarin dub from China, Soundwave had a glorious, operatic voice. In the Spanish dub, which strangely had several characters with flat monotones, Soundwave's was the flattest and "monotoniest", and arguably the most hilarious.
[[File:Soundwave fly.jpg|upright=1.1|thumb|"Hey, wait for me!"]]
*The typically emotionally-barren Soundwave actually ''laughs'' on two separate occasions in the Generation 1 cartoon ("[[Quest for Survival]]" and "[[Auto-Bop]]"), while he is heard screaming only once ("[[Roll for It]]"). In "[[Call of the Primitives]]" he is heard to groan in pain as Tornedron attacks the Decepticons as they pursue Trypticon.
*Soundwave has flown in his [[alternate mode|alt mode]] one time, in the episode "[[Masquerade]]." In [[Atlus]]'s ''[[The Transformers (G1 PS2)|Transformers]]'' game, Soundwave can transform to tape deck mode and kind of bounces around to move in that form. No, really.
*In the Japanese dub of the [[The Transformers (cartoon)|original ''The Transformers'' cartoon]], as well as the supporting [[manga]], all of Soundwave's cassette forces which could talk referred to him as "aniki" (兄貴) or "big brother". This is a fairly common way to refer to others you admire and such in Japanese. It's also a term that gang members use toward older, more experienced members who aren't actual gang bosses. Take it as you will. Whatever it says about his relationship with them, it does give new meaning to the phrase "{{w|Big Brother (Nineteen Eighty-Four)|Big Brother is watching over you}}".
*After [[Blaster (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Blaster]] and Soundwave were rebuilt into Twincast and Soundblaster respectively in ''[[Transformers: The Headmasters (cartoon)|The Headmasters]]'' cartoon, their [[character model|animation models]] weren't a simple recoloring as one might assume; to match the [[retool]]ing found on the respective toys released in [[1987]] that allowed for two cassettes to be stored, their animation models were [[:File:TV-Magazine-Soundblaster-Twincast.jpg|slighty modified]] to include bigger chest doors that protruded from their bodies. Soundblaster also featured a modified head design that had pointier horns.
{{--}}

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Beast Wars Decepticons]]
[[Category:Cloud Decepticons]]
[[Category:Combiners]]
[[Category:Generation 1 cartoon Decepticons]]
[[Category:Generations Selects Decepticons]]
[[Category:Headmasters]]
[[Category:Legends Decepticons]]
[[Category:Scientists]]
[[Category:Second Cybertron Alliance]]
[[Category:Spies]]
[[Category:Super-God Masterforce Decepticons]]
[[Category:The Headmasters Decepticons]]
[[Category:Wings Universe Decepticons]]

Talk:Robert J. Walsh

2024-07-24T21:34:37Z

JoseBxR:

'''"Walsh was not credited for his work on The Transformers until season 1 episode 6."'''
Before I did some editing, this page said that Walsh wasn't credited for his work in seasons 1 & 2. I checked the credits, and found he was credited starting at episode 6. I changed the page to the text above, but I'm not sure it is still accurate. It sounds like he worked on episodes before episode 6 and was not credited, but do we know that for sure? Did he do work in episodes 1–5? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 12:50, 15 July 2013 (EDT)
:I don't think the credits are particularly accurate. Transport to Oblivion and Roll for It just recycle the MTMTE credits, which therefore name George Arthur Bloom as the writer for both of those episodes. When I've been making articles for people who worked on the toon, I've been stating in broad terms which season they're known to have worked on. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 20:05, 15 July 2013 (EDT)

==This another case of Rhino confusing everyone?==

I've said on youtube that Rob Walsh had nothing to do with the Season 1 opening, and maybe not the Season 1 music. Someone asked for evidence, and that's when I found out what happened on the DVDs. Those credits are all reconstructed with new text, and there are incorrect listings everywhere. I can't explain how Walsh got included in the Season 1 credits - maybe certain season 1 reruns had an addition, but very likely Rhino screwed up again - but my clear memory of the broadcasts tell me that Walsh was never credited on Season 1. Youtube has evidence: there are credit sequences from VHS releases of the Pilot and of "Heavy Metal War", and you can also see that the "Eras Bold ITC"-style font is not quite the same as in the DVDs (The lone exception being the "Toei Doga" slide, presumably because they needed the logo). More evidence at iMDB: Walsh's contributions match the credits, as his work is listed in only(!) 82 episodes out of 98. I'm not ready to state as fact or make edits there, however, because I don't follow the community and the fandom at all heavily, and maybe there's confirmation somewhere, maybe from Walsh himself before he passed. I will need to know for certain before I complete my own set of reconstructed credits. [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 17:34, 24 July 2024 (EDT)

The Transformers (cartoon)/credits

2024-07-23T16:19:10Z

JoseBxR: /* Notes */ Clarifying that Korean names are not necessarily misspelled or typo'ed

{{Nav-G1cartoon}}

==End Credits==
===Season 1 More than Meets the Eye miniseries===
[[File:G1season1intro01.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6]]
*Supervising Director – [[John Gibbs]]
*Sequence Directors – [[Dave Brain]], [[Gerry Chiniquy]], [[Jeff Hale]], [[Norm McCabe]], [[Tom Ray]], [[Dan Thompson]], [[James T. Walker]], [[John Walker]], [[Warren Batchelder]],
*Voice Director – [[Wally Burr]]
*Voice Talents of – [[Michael Bell]], [[Corey Burton]], [[Peter Cullen]], [[Dan Gilvezan]], [[Casey Kasem]], [[Chris Latta]], [[Don Messick]], [[Ken Sansom]], [[Scatman Crothers]], [[John Stephenson]], [[Victor Caroli]]
*Voice Processing – [[Scott Brownlee]], [[Soundtraxx]]
*[[Storyboard]] by – [[Floro Dery]], [[Jim Fletcher]], [[George Goode]], [[Paul Gruwell]], [[Peter Chung]], [[David Russell]], [[Don Sheppard]], [[Bob Smith]], [[Victor Dal Chele|Vic Dalchele]], [[Gregg Davidson|Greg Davidson]]
*[[Character model|Model]] and Background Design by – Floro Dery, George Goode, [[Andy Kim]]
*Supervising Editor – [[Robert T. Gillis]]
*Music Editors – [[Joe Siracusa]], [[Mark Shiney]]
*Sound Effects Editors – [[Richard Gannon]], [[Bruce Elliott]], [[Ron Fedele]], [[Michael Tomack|Mike Tomack]], [[Jim Blodgett]], [[John Detra]], [[Michael L. DePatie]]
*Production Manager – [[Carole Weitzman]]
*Production Assistant – [[Yung Shin]]
*Creative Director – [[Jay Bacal]]
*Distributed by – [[Claster Television|Claster TV Productions]]
**A Division of [[Hasbro]] Industries
*Hasbro logo image
**Copyright [[1984]] Hasbro Industries Inc. All Rights Reserved
**Trademark of Hasbro Industries Inc. and is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office.
* Produced in Association with – [[Toei Animation|Toei Doga]]
**Copyright [[1984]] [[Sunbow Productions]] Inc.
*Music by – [[Johnny Douglas]]
*Title Song by – [[Ford Kinder]] and [[Anne Bryant|Ann Bryant]]
*Executive in Charge of Production – [[Lee Gunther]]
*Written by – [[George Arthur Bloom]]
*Produced by – [[Nelson Shin]]
*Executive Producers – [[Joe Bacal]], [[Margaret Loesch]], [[Tom Griffin]]
*Sunbow Productions and [[Marvel Productions]] title card

===Season 1 Expanded Credits===
*Story Editors – [[Dick Robbins]], [[Bryce Malek]]
*Written By – [[Douglas Booth]], [[Donald F. Glut]], [[Alfred A. Pegal]], [[Larry Strauss]], [[Earl Kress]], [[Leo D. Paur]], [[Reed Robbins]], [[Peter Salas]]
*Additional Dialogue by – [[Ron Friedman]]
*Voice Talents of – Michael Bell, Corey Burton, Peter Cullen, Dan Gilvezan, Casey Kasem, Chris Latta, Don Messick, Ken Sansom, Scatman Crothers, John Stephenson
*Voice Talents of – Victor Caroli, [[Gregg Berger]], [[Michael Horton]], [[Mona Marshall]], [[Hal Rayle]], [[Clive Revill]], [[Neil Ross]], [[Frank Welker]], [[Arthur Burghardt]]
*Voice Processing – Scott Brownlee, Soundtraxx
*Director – John Walker
*Sequence Directors – John Gibbs, Norm McCabe, Jeff Hale, [[Brad Case]]
*Storyboard Supervisor – [[Don Goodman]]
*Storyboard by – Floro Dery, George Goode, Peter Chung, [[Wendell Washer]], David Russell, Bob Smith, Greg Davidson, [[Lindsay Dawson]], [[Doug Lefler]], [[Gerald Moeller]], [[Brian Ray]], [[Rhoydon Shishido|Roy Shishido]], [[George Scribner]]
*Model and Background Design by – Floro Dery
*Assistant Designs by – [[Gabriel Hoyos]], [[Leandro Martinez]]
*Key Background – [[Dennis Venizelos]]
*Supervising Editor – Robert T. Gillis
*Music Editors – Joe Siracusa, Mark Shiney
*Sound Effects Editors – Michael L. DePatie, Richard Gannon, [[Richard Allen]], Jim Blodgett, Bruce Elliott, Mike Tomack, John Detra, Ron Fedele
*Director of Production – Carole Weitzman
*Production Assistant – Yung Shin
*Creative Director – Jay Bacal
*Copyright [[1985]] Sunbow productions Inc.
*Distributed by – Claster TV Productions
**A Division of Hasbro Industries
*Hasbro logo image
**Copyright 1984 Hasbro Industries Inc. All Rights Reserved
**Trademark of Hasbro Industries Inc. and is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office.
*Title Song by – Ford Kinder and Ann Bryant
*Music Composed and Conducted by – Johnny Douglas, [[Robert J. Walsh|Rob Walsh]]
*Executive in Charge of Production – Lee Gunther
*Produced by – Nelson Shin
*Executive Producers – Joe Bacal, Margaret Loesch, Tom Griffin
*Sunbow Productions and Marvel Productions title card

===Season 2===
[[File:G1 Blitzwing crushed season 2 intro.JPG|thumb|upright=1.6]]
*Supervising Producer – Nelson Shin
*Producers – [[George Singer]], John Walker, [[Gwen Wetzler]]
*Production Coordinator – [[Paul Davids]]
*Director of Production – [[Jim Graziano]]
*Supervising Director – Terry Lennon
*Directors – Norm McCabe, [[Bob Shellhorn]], [[Karen Peterson]], [[Bob Kirk]], [[Bob Treat]], Tom Ray, [[Margaret Nichols]], [[Bob Matz]], [[Al Kouzel]], Andy Kim
*Production Manager – Yung Shin
*Story Editors – Dick Robbins, Bryce Malek
*Additional Dialogue by – Ron Friedman
*Voice Director – Wally Burr
*Voice Talents of – [[Jack Angel]], [[Arlene Banas]], Michael Bell, Gregg Berger, Arthur Burghardt, Corey Burton, [[Michael Chain]], Scatman Crothers, Peter Cullen, [[Bud Davis]], [[Walker Edmiston]], [[Paul Eiding]], [[Ed Gilbert]], Dan Gilvezan, Michael Horton, [[Buster Jones]], Victor Caroli
*Voice Talents of – Casey Kasem, Chris Latta, [[Morgan Lofting]], Don Messick, [[Michael McConnohie|Mike McConnohie]], [[Alan Oppenheimer]], Hal Rayle, [[Peter Renaday|Peter Reneday]], Clive Revill, Neil Ross, Ken Sansom, John Stephenson, Frank Welker
*Voice Processing – Scott Brownlee, [[Wally Burr Recording]]
*Storyboard Supervisor – [[Don Goodman]]
*Storyboard by – Peter Chung, Greg Davidson, George Goode, Doug Lefler, Gerald Moeller, David Russell, [[David Shin]], Roy Shishido, [[Vincenzo Trippetti]], Wendell Washer
*Model and Background Design by – Floro Dery, Gadriel Hoyos, [[Dell Barras]], [[Fred Carrillo]], [[Romeo Tanghal]], [[Pat Agnasin]], [[Romeo Francisco]]
*Color Models – [[Phyllis Craig]]
*Key Background – Dennis Venizelos, [[Bob Schaefer]], [[Phil Phillipson]]
*Supervising Editor – Robert T. Gillis
*Music Editors – Joe Siracusa, Mark Shiney, [[Peter Collier]]
*Sound Effects Editors – Richard Gannon, Jim Blodgett, Michael L. DePatie, [[Nicholas James]], [[Efraim Reuveni]], Bruce Elliott, Michael Tomack, John Detra, Ron Fedele, Allison Cobb
*Sunbow Productions
**Associate Producers – [[Flint Dille]], [[Roger Slifer]]
**Production Manager – Carole Weitzman
**Production Assistant – [[Terri Gruskin]]
*Creative Director – Jay Bacal
**Copyright 1985 Sunbow Productions Inc.
**Copyright 1985 [[Wildstar Music]], Inc.
*Distributed by – Claster Television Productions
**A Division of Hasbro, Inc.
*Hasbro, Inc.
**Copyright 1985 Hasbro Industries Inc. All Rights Reserved.
**Trademark of Hasbro Industries Inc. and is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office
*Title Song by – Ford Kinder and Ann Bryant
*Music Composed and Conducted by – Johnny Douglas, Rob Walsh
*Executive in Charge of Production – Lee Gunther
*Executive Producers – Joe Bacal, Margaret Loesch, Tom Griffin
*Sunbow Productions and Marvel Productions title card

===Season 3===
[[File:Intro3 4 with error.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6]]
*Supervising Director – [[Ray Lee]], Andy Kim
*Sequence Directors – Warren Batchelder, [[Bob Bemiller]], [[Rudy Cataldi]], Gerry Chiniquy, [[Charlie Downs]], [[Lillian Evans]], [[Caroline Heyward]], Bob Kirk, [[Bill Knoll]], Bob Matz, Norm McCabe, [[Joe Morrison]], Margaret Nichols, [[Spencer Peel]], Karen Peterson, [[Stan Phillips]], Tom Ray, Bob Treat, [[Neal Warner]]
*Assistants to the Supervisors – [[Myrna Bushman]], [[Lisa Wilson]]
*Background Supervisors – Dennis Venizelos
*Voice Talents of – [[Charlie Adler]], Jack Angel, Arlene Banas, [[Roger Behr]], Michael Bell, Gregg Berger, [[Susan Blu]], Corey Burton, [[Roger C. Carmel]], Victor Caroli, Michael Chain, [[Philip L. Clarke|Phillip Clarke]], [[Regis Cordic|Rege Cordic]], Peter Cullen, Bud Davis, Paul Eiding, [[Laurie Faso]], [[Ron Feinberg]], [[Ron Gans]], [[Linda Gary]], [[Brad Garrett]], [[Dick Gautier]], Ed Gilbert, Dan Gilvezan, [[Johnny Haymer|John Haymer]], [[John Hostetter]], [[Jerry Houser]]
*Voice Talents of – [[Milt Jamin]], Buster Jones, Casey Kasem, [[Aron Kincaid]], Chris Latta, [[Joe Leahy]], [[Jeff MacKay]], [[Terry McGovern]], [[David Mendenhall]], [[Denise Mora]], [[John Moschitta]], Allen Oppenheimer, [[Rob Paulsen]], [[Tony Pope]], [[Bill Ratner]], Hal Rayle, Clive Revill, Neil Ross, [[Ted Schwartz]], [[Tony St. James]], John Stephenson, Frank Welker, [[Beau Weaver]]
*Voices Directed by – Wally Burr
* Voice Recording Engineer – [[Joel Iwataki]]
*Recording Coordinator – [[Ellen Burr]]
*Storyboard Artists – Dell Barras, [[Bill Barry]], [[Danny Bulanadi]], [[Su-yong Jeong|Soo Young Chung]], [[Joo In Kim]], David Shin, [[Leo Sullivan]], [[Young Sang Yoon]]
*Model and Background Design – [[Pat Agnasin]], Fred Carrillo, [[Eufronio R. Cruz]], Romeo Francisco, Gadriel Hoyos, [[Rico Rival]]
*Key Background Design – Dennis Venizelos, Bob Schaffer, Phil Phillipson, [[Jeff Richards]], [[Fred Warter]]
*Color Models – Phyllis Craig
*Supervising Editor – [[Steven C. Brown]]
*Assistants to the Supervising Editor – [[Larry Whelan]], [[Rick Gehr]]
*Music Editors – Joe Siracusa, Mark Shiney, Peter Collier
* Effects Editors – Jim Blodgett, [[Matt Cope]], Mike DePatie, John Detra, [[Karen Doulac]], Ron Fedele, Allison Cobb, [[Lenny Geschke]], [[Brad Gunther]], [[David Hankins]], Nick James, [[Richard Raderman]], [[Joseph Sorokin]], [[Warren Taylor]], Michael Tomack, [[Peter Tomaszewicz]]
*Music Editors – Mark Shiney, Peter Collier, [[Robert Randles]] S.M.E., [[Bob Mayer]], Richard Allen
*Dubbing Supervisors – [[Jacquie Freeman]], [[John Hart]]
*Telecine Supervisors – [[Sarah Swiskow]], [[Andrew Golov]]
*Post Production Supervisors – [[Eric Early]], [[Steven Heth]]
*Production Managers – Carole Weitzman, Yung Shin
*Production Coordinators – Paul Davids, [[Elise Goyette]], [[Hildy Mesnik]]
*Production Assistants – [[Mitsuko Hayes]], [[Lizabeth Elliott]]
*Director of Production – Jim Graziano
*Supervising Producer – Nelson Shin
*Producers – Gerald Moeller, George Singer
*Original Music Score Composed and Conducted by – Robert J. Walsh, Johnny Douglas
*Main Title Theme
**Music and Lyrics by – Ford Kinder, Anne Bryant
*Post-Production Services – [[L. Ed Walsh]], [[Terry Jennings]], [[Saturday Morning Incorporated]]
*Co-Producer – Roger Slifer
*Story Editors – Flint Dille, [[Steve Gerber]], [[Marv Wolfman]]
*Creative Director – Jay Bacal
*Copyright [[1986]] Sunbow Productions, Inc.
*Copyright 1986 Wildstar Music, Inc.
*Copyright 1986 [[Starwild Music]], Inc.
*Distributed by – Claster Television Productions
**A Division of Hasbro, Inc.
*Hasbro, Inc.
**Copyright 1986 Hasbro Industries Inc. All Rights Reserved.
**Trademark of Hasbro Industries Inc. and is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office
* Executive in Charge of Production – Lee Gunther
*Executive Producers – Joe Bacal, Margaret Loesch, Tom Griffin
*Sunbow Productions and Marvel Productions title card

===Season 4===
[[File:Scorponok-Rebirth.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6]]
*Director – [[Jae ho Hong]]
*Assistant Directors – [[Mooyoung Song]], [[Kyungme Kim]]
*Animators – [[Youngduk Kim]], [[Kyungkwan Kim]], [[Baekyup Sung]], [[Sungok Sung]], [[Chiman Park]], [[Byungchong Oh]], [[Nosoo Kwak]], [[Byungnam Choi]], [[Eynam Park]], [[Myunghi Park]], [[Chigeun Kang]], [[Hanyong Chung]], [[Sang Il Sim]], [[Namyul Baik]], [[Youngchan Shin]]
*Voice Talents of – Charlie Adler, Jack Angel, [[Jered Barclay]], Michael Bell, Susan Blu, [[Steve Bulen]], Corey Burton, Victor Caroli, Peter Cullen, Dick Gautier, Dan Gilvezan, John Haymer, Milt Jamin, [[Stan Jones]], [[Stephen Keener]], Chris Latta, [[Danny Mann]], David Mendenhall, Rob Paulson, Neil Ross, John Stephenson, Frank Welker
*Voices Directed by – Wally Burr
* Voice Recording Engineers – Joel Iwataki, [[Sylvester Rivers]], Scott Brownlee
*Recording Coordinator – Ellen Burr
*Editor – [[Al Breitenbach]]
*Assistant Editor – [[David Weathers]]
*Post Production Services – [[Paul Vitello]] & Associates
*Telecine Supervisor – Sarah Swiskow
*Post Production Supervisors – Eric Early
*Production Managers – Gerald Moeller, Elise Goyette
*Production Assistant – [[Laurie Pessell]]
*Director of Production – Jim Graziano
*Senior Production Manager – Carole Weitzman
*Original Music Score Composed and Conducted by – Robert J. Walsh, Johnny Douglas
*Main Title Theme by – Kinder and Bryant
*Copyright [[1987]] Sunbow Productions, Inc.
*Copyright 1986 Wildstar Music, Inc.
*Copyright 1986 Starwild Music, Inc.
*Creative Director – Jay Bacal
*Distributed by – Claster Television Productions
**A Division of Hasbro, Inc.
*Hasbro, Inc.
**Copyright 1986 Hasbro Industries Inc. All Rights Reserved.
**Trademark of Hasbro Industries Inc. and is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office
*Produced by – Nelson Shin
*Executive in Charge of Production – Lee Gunther
*Executive Producers – Joe Bacal, Margaret Loesch, Tom Griffin
*Sunbow Productions and Marvel Productions title card

===Season 5===
[[File:PrimeTommyCommercialBumper.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6]]
*Live Action Sequences
**Tommy – [[Jason Jansen]]
**[[Optimus Prime (G1) |Optimus Prime]] – Peter Cullen
**Head Puppeteer – [[Marty Robinson]]
**Director – [[Peter Wallach]]
**Production Designer – [[Mike Sullivan]]
**Director of Photography – Mike Sullivan
**Writer – Roger Slifer
**Producer – [[Tim Speidel]]
**Line Producer – [[Edward Lee Rapp]]
**Animator – [[Joe Laudati]]
**Supervising Editor – [[Lisa Orlando]]
**Production Manager – [[Nel Lombardo]]

As season 5 was a repackage of older episodes, the original credits for the appropriate season were used.

==Notes==
*Frank Welker is not listed in the credits for the [[More than Meets the Eye (mini-series)|More than Meets the Eye]] miniseries.
*Some names are presented with misspellings or typos, and certain Korean names are transliterated differently from other productions:
**Paul Gruwell last name is misspelled as Grewell.
**Larry Strauss is credited as Larry Strass.
**Lindsay Dawson's first name is misspelled as Lynsey.
**Leandro Martinez's first name is spelled Leondro.
**Alan Oppenheimer's first name is listed as Allan.
**Bob Schaefer's last name is misspelled as Schaffer.
**Casey Kasem's first name is incorrectly listed as Kasey in season 3.
**Aron Kincaid's last name is misspelled as Kindaid.
**Rob Paulsen's last name is listed as Paulson.
**Gerald Moeller's last name is spelled as Modeller in the season 3 credits.
**Su-yong Jeong is credited as Soo Young Chung.
**Jae ho Hong is credited as Jaeho Hong.
**Sang Il Sim is listed as Sangil Shim.
**Jered Barclay's first name is misspelled as Jared.
*For the DVD releases, the Season 1 footage restoration included rebuilt credits, using "textless" shots from the miniseries and overlaying "newly" created text layers, in a font similar to the originals, but there are a few new errors introduced. Norm McCabe is displayed as "NOR M McCABE" in the restored miniseries credits, and (small nitpick) there is a period missing from the phrase "Trademark Office". [[Transport to Oblivion (episode)|Transport to Oblivion]] and [[Roll for It]] use the miniseries credits instead of the expanded season 1 credits. [[Divide and Conquer]], [[Fire in the Sky]], [[War of the Dinobots]], [[The Ultimate Doom, Part 3]], and [[Countdown to Extinction (episode)|Countdown to Extinction]] use the season 2 credits overlayed onto the season 1 closing animation.

[[Category:Generation 1 media]]
[[Category:Media credits]]

The Transformers (cartoon)/credits

2024-07-22T20:51:44Z

JoseBxR: /* Season 1 Expanded Credits */

{{Nav-G1cartoon}}

==End Credits==
===Season 1 More than Meets the Eye miniseries===
[[File:G1season1intro01.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6]]
*Supervising Director – [[John Gibbs]]
*Sequence Directors – [[Dave Brain]], [[Gerry Chiniquy]], [[Jeff Hale]], [[Norm McCabe]], [[Tom Ray]], [[Dan Thompson]], [[James T. Walker]], [[John Walker]], [[Warren Batchelder]],
*Voice Director – [[Wally Burr]]
*Voice Talents of – [[Michael Bell]], [[Corey Burton]], [[Peter Cullen]], [[Dan Gilvezan]], [[Casey Kasem]], [[Chris Latta]], [[Don Messick]], [[Ken Sansom]], [[Scatman Crothers]], [[John Stephenson]], [[Victor Caroli]]
*Voice Processing – [[Scott Brownlee]], [[Soundtraxx]]
*[[Storyboard]] by – [[Floro Dery]], [[Jim Fletcher]], [[George Goode]], [[Paul Gruwell]], [[Peter Chung]], [[David Russell]], [[Don Sheppard]], [[Bob Smith]], [[Victor Dal Chele|Vic Dalchele]], [[Gregg Davidson|Greg Davidson]]
*[[Character model|Model]] and Background Design by – Floro Dery, George Goode, [[Andy Kim]]
*Supervising Editor – [[Robert T. Gillis]]
*Music Editors – [[Joe Siracusa]], [[Mark Shiney]]
*Sound Effects Editors – [[Richard Gannon]], [[Bruce Elliott]], [[Ron Fedele]], [[Michael Tomack|Mike Tomack]], [[Jim Blodgett]], [[John Detra]], [[Michael L. DePatie]]
*Production Manager – [[Carole Weitzman]]
*Production Assistant – [[Yung Shin]]
*Creative Director – [[Jay Bacal]]
*Distributed by – [[Claster Television|Claster TV Productions]]
**A Division of [[Hasbro]] Industries
*Hasbro logo image
**Copyright [[1984]] Hasbro Industries Inc. All Rights Reserved
**Trademark of Hasbro Industries Inc. and is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office.
* Produced in Association with – [[Toei Animation|Toei Doga]]
**Copyright [[1984]] [[Sunbow Productions]] Inc.
*Music by – [[Johnny Douglas]]
*Title Song by – [[Ford Kinder]] and [[Anne Bryant|Ann Bryant]]
*Executive in Charge of Production – [[Lee Gunther]]
*Written by – [[George Arthur Bloom]]
*Produced by – [[Nelson Shin]]
*Executive Producers – [[Joe Bacal]], [[Margaret Loesch]], [[Tom Griffin]]
*Sunbow Productions and [[Marvel Productions]] title card

===Season 1 Expanded Credits===
*Story Editors – [[Dick Robbins]], [[Bryce Malek]]
*Written By – [[Douglas Booth]], [[Donald F. Glut]], [[Alfred A. Pegal]], [[Larry Strauss]], [[Earl Kress]], [[Leo D. Paur]], [[Reed Robbins]], [[Peter Salas]]
*Additional Dialogue by – [[Ron Friedman]]
*Voice Talents of – Michael Bell, Corey Burton, Peter Cullen, Dan Gilvezan, Casey Kasem, Chris Latta, Don Messick, Ken Sansom, Scatman Crothers, John Stephenson
*Voice Talents of – Victor Caroli, [[Gregg Berger]], [[Michael Horton]], [[Mona Marshall]], [[Hal Rayle]], [[Clive Revill]], [[Neil Ross]], [[Frank Welker]], [[Arthur Burghardt]]
*Voice Processing – Scott Brownlee, Soundtraxx
*Director – John Walker
*Sequence Directors – John Gibbs, Norm McCabe, Jeff Hale, [[Brad Case]]
*Storyboard Supervisor – [[Don Goodman]]
*Storyboard by – Floro Dery, George Goode, Peter Chung, [[Wendell Washer]], David Russell, Bob Smith, Greg Davidson, [[Lindsay Dawson]], [[Doug Lefler]], [[Gerald Moeller]], [[Brian Ray]], [[Rhoydon Shishido|Roy Shishido]], [[George Scribner]]
*Model and Background Design by – Floro Dery
*Assistant Designs by – [[Gabriel Hoyos]], [[Leandro Martinez]]
*Key Background – [[Dennis Venizelos]]
*Supervising Editor – Robert T. Gillis
*Music Editors – Joe Siracusa, Mark Shiney
*Sound Effects Editors – Michael L. DePatie, Richard Gannon, [[Richard Allen]], Jim Blodgett, Bruce Elliott, Mike Tomack, John Detra, Ron Fedele
*Director of Production – Carole Weitzman
*Production Assistant – Yung Shin
*Creative Director – Jay Bacal
*Copyright [[1985]] Sunbow productions Inc.
*Distributed by – Claster TV Productions
**A Division of Hasbro Industries
*Hasbro logo image
**Copyright 1984 Hasbro Industries Inc. All Rights Reserved
**Trademark of Hasbro Industries Inc. and is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office.
*Title Song by – Ford Kinder and Ann Bryant
*Music Composed and Conducted by – Johnny Douglas, [[Robert J. Walsh|Rob Walsh]]
*Executive in Charge of Production – Lee Gunther
*Produced by – Nelson Shin
*Executive Producers – Joe Bacal, Margaret Loesch, Tom Griffin
*Sunbow Productions and Marvel Productions title card

===Season 2===
[[File:G1 Blitzwing crushed season 2 intro.JPG|thumb|upright=1.6]]
*Supervising Producer – Nelson Shin
*Producers – [[George Singer]], John Walker, [[Gwen Wetzler]]
*Production Coordinator – [[Paul Davids]]
*Director of Production – [[Jim Graziano]]
*Supervising Director – Terry Lennon
*Directors – Norm McCabe, [[Bob Shellhorn]], [[Karen Peterson]], [[Bob Kirk]], [[Bob Treat]], Tom Ray, [[Margaret Nichols]], [[Bob Matz]], [[Al Kouzel]], Andy Kim
*Production Manager – Yung Shin
*Story Editors – Dick Robbins, Bryce Malek
*Additional Dialogue by – Ron Friedman
*Voice Director – Wally Burr
*Voice Talents of – [[Jack Angel]], [[Arlene Banas]], Michael Bell, Gregg Berger, Arthur Burghardt, Corey Burton, [[Michael Chain]], Scatman Crothers, Peter Cullen, [[Bud Davis]], [[Walker Edmiston]], [[Paul Eiding]], [[Ed Gilbert]], Dan Gilvezan, Michael Horton, [[Buster Jones]], Victor Caroli
*Voice Talents of – Casey Kasem, Chris Latta, [[Morgan Lofting]], Don Messick, [[Michael McConnohie|Mike McConnohie]], [[Alan Oppenheimer]], Hal Rayle, [[Peter Renaday|Peter Reneday]], Clive Revill, Neil Ross, Ken Sansom, John Stephenson, Frank Welker
*Voice Processing – Scott Brownlee, [[Wally Burr Recording]]
*Storyboard Supervisor – [[Don Goodman]]
*Storyboard by – Peter Chung, Greg Davidson, George Goode, Doug Lefler, Gerald Moeller, David Russell, [[David Shin]], Roy Shishido, [[Vincenzo Trippetti]], Wendell Washer
*Model and Background Design by – Floro Dery, Gadriel Hoyos, [[Dell Barras]], [[Fred Carrillo]], [[Romeo Tanghal]], [[Pat Agnasin]], [[Romeo Francisco]]
*Color Models – [[Phyllis Craig]]
*Key Background – Dennis Venizelos, [[Bob Schaefer]], [[Phil Phillipson]]
*Supervising Editor – Robert T. Gillis
*Music Editors – Joe Siracusa, Mark Shiney, [[Peter Collier]]
*Sound Effects Editors – Richard Gannon, Jim Blodgett, Michael L. DePatie, [[Nicholas James]], [[Efraim Reuveni]], Bruce Elliott, Michael Tomack, John Detra, Ron Fedele, Allison Cobb
*Sunbow Productions
**Associate Producers – [[Flint Dille]], [[Roger Slifer]]
**Production Manager – Carole Weitzman
**Production Assistant – [[Terri Gruskin]]
*Creative Director – Jay Bacal
**Copyright 1985 Sunbow Productions Inc.
**Copyright 1985 [[Wildstar Music]], Inc.
*Distributed by – Claster Television Productions
**A Division of Hasbro, Inc.
*Hasbro, Inc.
**Copyright 1985 Hasbro Industries Inc. All Rights Reserved.
**Trademark of Hasbro Industries Inc. and is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office
*Title Song by – Ford Kinder and Ann Bryant
*Music Composed and Conducted by – Johnny Douglas, Rob Walsh
*Executive in Charge of Production – Lee Gunther
*Executive Producers – Joe Bacal, Margaret Loesch, Tom Griffin
*Sunbow Productions and Marvel Productions title card

===Season 3===
[[File:Intro3 4 with error.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6]]
*Supervising Director – [[Ray Lee]], Andy Kim
*Sequence Directors – Warren Batchelder, [[Bob Bemiller]], [[Rudy Cataldi]], Gerry Chiniquy, [[Charlie Downs]], [[Lillian Evans]], [[Caroline Heyward]], Bob Kirk, [[Bill Knoll]], Bob Matz, Norm McCabe, [[Joe Morrison]], Margaret Nichols, [[Spencer Peel]], Karen Peterson, [[Stan Phillips]], Tom Ray, Bob Treat, [[Neal Warner]]
*Assistants to the Supervisors – [[Myrna Bushman]], [[Lisa Wilson]]
*Background Supervisors – Dennis Venizelos
*Voice Talents of – [[Charlie Adler]], Jack Angel, Arlene Banas, [[Roger Behr]], Michael Bell, Gregg Berger, [[Susan Blu]], Corey Burton, [[Roger C. Carmel]], Victor Caroli, Michael Chain, [[Philip L. Clarke|Phillip Clarke]], [[Regis Cordic|Rege Cordic]], Peter Cullen, Bud Davis, Paul Eiding, [[Laurie Faso]], [[Ron Feinberg]], [[Ron Gans]], [[Linda Gary]], [[Brad Garrett]], [[Dick Gautier]], Ed Gilbert, Dan Gilvezan, [[Johnny Haymer|John Haymer]], [[John Hostetter]], [[Jerry Houser]]
*Voice Talents of – [[Milt Jamin]], Buster Jones, Casey Kasem, [[Aron Kincaid]], Chris Latta, [[Joe Leahy]], [[Jeff MacKay]], [[Terry McGovern]], [[David Mendenhall]], [[Denise Mora]], [[John Moschitta]], Allen Oppenheimer, [[Rob Paulsen]], [[Tony Pope]], [[Bill Ratner]], Hal Rayle, Clive Revill, Neil Ross, [[Ted Schwartz]], [[Tony St. James]], John Stephenson, Frank Welker, [[Beau Weaver]]
*Voices Directed by – Wally Burr
* Voice Recording Engineer – [[Joel Iwataki]]
*Recording Coordinator – [[Ellen Burr]]
*Storyboard Artists – Dell Barras, [[Bill Barry]], [[Danny Bulanadi]], [[Su-yong Jeong|Soo Young Chung]], [[Joo In Kim]], David Shin, [[Leo Sullivan]], [[Young Sang Yoon]]
*Model and Background Design – [[Pat Agnasin]], Fred Carrillo, [[Eufronio R. Cruz]], Romeo Francisco, Gadriel Hoyos, [[Rico Rival]]
*Key Background Design – Dennis Venizelos, Bob Schaffer, Phil Phillipson, [[Jeff Richards]], [[Fred Warter]]
*Color Models – Phyllis Craig
*Supervising Editor – [[Steven C. Brown]]
*Assistants to the Supervising Editor – [[Larry Whelan]], [[Rick Gehr]]
*Music Editors – Joe Siracusa, Mark Shiney, Peter Collier
* Effects Editors – Jim Blodgett, [[Matt Cope]], Mike DePatie, John Detra, [[Karen Doulac]], Ron Fedele, Allison Cobb, [[Lenny Geschke]], [[Brad Gunther]], [[David Hankins]], Nick James, [[Richard Raderman]], [[Joseph Sorokin]], [[Warren Taylor]], Michael Tomack, [[Peter Tomaszewicz]]
*Music Editors – Mark Shiney, Peter Collier, [[Robert Randles]] S.M.E., [[Bob Mayer]], Richard Allen
*Dubbing Supervisors – [[Jacquie Freeman]], [[John Hart]]
*Telecine Supervisors – [[Sarah Swiskow]], [[Andrew Golov]]
*Post Production Supervisors – [[Eric Early]], [[Steven Heth]]
*Production Managers – Carole Weitzman, Yung Shin
*Production Coordinators – Paul Davids, [[Elise Goyette]], [[Hildy Mesnik]]
*Production Assistants – [[Mitsuko Hayes]], [[Lizabeth Elliott]]
*Director of Production – Jim Graziano
*Supervising Producer – Nelson Shin
*Producers – Gerald Moeller, George Singer
*Original Music Score Composed and Conducted by – Robert J. Walsh, Johnny Douglas
*Main Title Theme
**Music and Lyrics by – Ford Kinder, Anne Bryant
*Post-Production Services – [[L. Ed Walsh]], [[Terry Jennings]], [[Saturday Morning Incorporated]]
*Co-Producer – Roger Slifer
*Story Editors – Flint Dille, [[Steve Gerber]], [[Marv Wolfman]]
*Creative Director – Jay Bacal
*Copyright [[1986]] Sunbow Productions, Inc.
*Copyright 1986 Wildstar Music, Inc.
*Copyright 1986 [[Starwild Music]], Inc.
*Distributed by – Claster Television Productions
**A Division of Hasbro, Inc.
*Hasbro, Inc.
**Copyright 1986 Hasbro Industries Inc. All Rights Reserved.
**Trademark of Hasbro Industries Inc. and is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office
* Executive in Charge of Production – Lee Gunther
*Executive Producers – Joe Bacal, Margaret Loesch, Tom Griffin
*Sunbow Productions and Marvel Productions title card

===Season 4===
[[File:Scorponok-Rebirth.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6]]
*Director – [[Jae ho Hong]]
*Assistant Directors – [[Mooyoung Song]], [[Kyungme Kim]]
*Animators – [[Youngduk Kim]], [[Kyungkwan Kim]], [[Baekyup Sung]], [[Sungok Sung]], [[Chiman Park]], [[Byungchong Oh]], [[Nosoo Kwak]], [[Byungnam Choi]], [[Eynam Park]], [[Myunghi Park]], [[Chigeun Kang]], [[Hanyong Chung]], [[Sang Il Sim]], [[Namyul Baik]], [[Youngchan Shin]]
*Voice Talents of – Charlie Adler, Jack Angel, [[Jered Barclay]], Michael Bell, Susan Blu, [[Steve Bulen]], Corey Burton, Victor Caroli, Peter Cullen, Dick Gautier, Dan Gilvezan, John Haymer, Milt Jamin, [[Stan Jones]], [[Stephen Keener]], Chris Latta, [[Danny Mann]], David Mendenhall, Rob Paulson, Neil Ross, John Stephenson, Frank Welker
*Voices Directed by – Wally Burr
* Voice Recording Engineers – Joel Iwataki, [[Sylvester Rivers]], Scott Brownlee
*Recording Coordinator – Ellen Burr
*Editor – [[Al Breitenbach]]
*Assistant Editor – [[David Weathers]]
*Post Production Services – [[Paul Vitello]] & Associates
*Telecine Supervisor – Sarah Swiskow
*Post Production Supervisors – Eric Early
*Production Managers – Gerald Moeller, Elise Goyette
*Production Assistant – [[Laurie Pessell]]
*Director of Production – Jim Graziano
*Senior Production Manager – Carole Weitzman
*Original Music Score Composed and Conducted by – Robert J. Walsh, Johnny Douglas
*Main Title Theme by – Kinder and Bryant
*Copyright [[1987]] Sunbow Productions, Inc.
*Copyright 1986 Wildstar Music, Inc.
*Copyright 1986 Starwild Music, Inc.
*Creative Director – Jay Bacal
*Distributed by – Claster Television Productions
**A Division of Hasbro, Inc.
*Hasbro, Inc.
**Copyright 1986 Hasbro Industries Inc. All Rights Reserved.
**Trademark of Hasbro Industries Inc. and is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office
*Produced by – Nelson Shin
*Executive in Charge of Production – Lee Gunther
*Executive Producers – Joe Bacal, Margaret Loesch, Tom Griffin
*Sunbow Productions and Marvel Productions title card

===Season 5===
[[File:PrimeTommyCommercialBumper.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6]]
*Live Action Sequences
**Tommy – [[Jason Jansen]]
**[[Optimus Prime (G1) |Optimus Prime]] – Peter Cullen
**Head Puppeteer – [[Marty Robinson]]
**Director – [[Peter Wallach]]
**Production Designer – [[Mike Sullivan]]
**Director of Photography – Mike Sullivan
**Writer – Roger Slifer
**Producer – [[Tim Speidel]]
**Line Producer – [[Edward Lee Rapp]]
**Animator – [[Joe Laudati]]
**Supervising Editor – [[Lisa Orlando]]
**Production Manager – [[Nel Lombardo]]

As season 5 was a repackage of older episodes, the original credits for the appropriate season were used.

==Notes==
*Frank Welker is not listed in the credits for the [[More than Meets the Eye (mini-series)|More than Meets the Eye]] miniseries.
*Some credits had misspellings or typos in the credited names:
**Paul Gruwell last name is misspelled as Grewell.
**Larry Strauss is credited as Larry Strass.
**Lindsay Dawson's first name is misspelled as Lynsey.
**Leandro Martinez's first name is spelled Leondro.
**Alan Oppenheimer's first name is listed as Allan.
**Bob Schaefer's last name is misspelled as Schaffer.
**Casey Kasem's first name is incorrectly listed as Kasey in season 3.
**Aron Kincaid's last name is misspelled as Kindaid.
**Rob Paulsen's last name is listed as Paulson.
**Gerald Moeller's last name is spelled as Modeller in the season 3 credits.
**Su-yong Jeong is credited as Soo Young Chung.
**Jae ho Hong was credited as Jaeho Hong.
**Sang Il Sim was listed as Sangil Shim.
**Jered Barclay's first name is misspelled as Jared.
*For the DVD releases, the Season 1 footage restoration included rebuilt credits, using "textless" shots from the miniseries and overlaying "newly" created text layers, in a font similar to the originals, but there were a few new errors introduced. Norm McCabe is displayed as "NOR M McCABE" in the restored miniseries credits, and (small nitpick) there is a period missing from the phrase "Trademark Office". [[Transport to Oblivion (episode)|Transport to Oblivion]] and [[Roll for It]] use the miniseries credits instead of the expanded season 1 credits. [[Divide and Conquer]], [[Fire in the Sky]], [[War of the Dinobots]], [[The Ultimate Doom, Part 3]], and [[Countdown to Extinction (episode)|Countdown to Extinction]] use the season 2 credits overlayed onto the season 1 closing animation.

[[Category:Generation 1 media]]
[[Category:Media credits]]

The Transformers (cartoon)/credits

2024-07-22T20:51:02Z

JoseBxR: /* Season 1 More than Meets the Eye miniseries */

{{Nav-G1cartoon}}

==End Credits==
===Season 1 More than Meets the Eye miniseries===
[[File:G1season1intro01.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6]]
*Supervising Director – [[John Gibbs]]
*Sequence Directors – [[Dave Brain]], [[Gerry Chiniquy]], [[Jeff Hale]], [[Norm McCabe]], [[Tom Ray]], [[Dan Thompson]], [[James T. Walker]], [[John Walker]], [[Warren Batchelder]],
*Voice Director – [[Wally Burr]]
*Voice Talents of – [[Michael Bell]], [[Corey Burton]], [[Peter Cullen]], [[Dan Gilvezan]], [[Casey Kasem]], [[Chris Latta]], [[Don Messick]], [[Ken Sansom]], [[Scatman Crothers]], [[John Stephenson]], [[Victor Caroli]]
*Voice Processing – [[Scott Brownlee]], [[Soundtraxx]]
*[[Storyboard]] by – [[Floro Dery]], [[Jim Fletcher]], [[George Goode]], [[Paul Gruwell]], [[Peter Chung]], [[David Russell]], [[Don Sheppard]], [[Bob Smith]], [[Victor Dal Chele|Vic Dalchele]], [[Gregg Davidson|Greg Davidson]]
*[[Character model|Model]] and Background Design by – Floro Dery, George Goode, [[Andy Kim]]
*Supervising Editor – [[Robert T. Gillis]]
*Music Editors – [[Joe Siracusa]], [[Mark Shiney]]
*Sound Effects Editors – [[Richard Gannon]], [[Bruce Elliott]], [[Ron Fedele]], [[Michael Tomack|Mike Tomack]], [[Jim Blodgett]], [[John Detra]], [[Michael L. DePatie]]
*Production Manager – [[Carole Weitzman]]
*Production Assistant – [[Yung Shin]]
*Creative Director – [[Jay Bacal]]
*Distributed by – [[Claster Television|Claster TV Productions]]
**A Division of [[Hasbro]] Industries
*Hasbro logo image
**Copyright [[1984]] Hasbro Industries Inc. All Rights Reserved
**Trademark of Hasbro Industries Inc. and is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office.
* Produced in Association with – [[Toei Animation|Toei Doga]]
**Copyright [[1984]] [[Sunbow Productions]] Inc.
*Music by – [[Johnny Douglas]]
*Title Song by – [[Ford Kinder]] and [[Anne Bryant|Ann Bryant]]
*Executive in Charge of Production – [[Lee Gunther]]
*Written by – [[George Arthur Bloom]]
*Produced by – [[Nelson Shin]]
*Executive Producers – [[Joe Bacal]], [[Margaret Loesch]], [[Tom Griffin]]
*Sunbow Productions and [[Marvel Productions]] title card

===Season 1 Expanded Credits===
*Story Editors – [[Dick Robbins]], [[Bryce Malek]]
*Written By – [[Douglas Booth]], [[Donald F. Glut]], [[Alfred A. Pegal]], [[Larry Strauss]], [[Earl Kress]], [[Leo D. Paur]], [[Reed Robbins]], [[Peter Salas]]
*Additional Dialogue by – [[Ron Friedman]]
*Voice Talents of – Michael Bell, Corey Burton, Peter Cullen, Dan Gilvezan, Casey Kasem, Chris Latta, Don Messick, Ken Sansom, Scatman Crothers, John Stephenson
*Voice Talents of – Victor Caroli, [[Gregg Berger]], [[Michael Horton]], [[Mona Marshall]], [[Hal Rayle]], [[Clive Revill]], [[Neil Ross]], [[Frank Welker]], [[Arthur Burghardt]]
*Voice Processing – Scott Brownlee, Soundtraxx
*Director – John Walker
*Sequence Directors – John Gibbs, Norm McCabe, Jeff Hale, [[Brad Case]]
*Storyboard Supervisor – [[Don Goodman]]
*Storyboard by – Floro Dery, George Goode, Peter Chung, [[Wendell Washer]], David Russell, Bob Smith, Greg Davidson, [[Lindsay Dawson]], [[Doug Lefler]], [[Gerald Moeller]], [[Brian Ray]], [[Rhoydon Shishido|Roy Shishido]], [[George Scribner]]
*Model and Background Design by – Floro Dery
*Assistant Designs by – [[Gabriel Hoyos]], [[Leandro Martinez]]
*Key Background – [[Dennis Venizelos]]
*Supervising Editor – Robert T. Gillis
*Music Editors – Joe Siracusa, Mark Shiney
*Sound Effects Editors – Michael L. DePatie, Richard Gannon, [[Richard Allen]], Jim Blodgett, Bruce Elliott, Mike Tomack, John Detra, Ron Fedele
*Director of Production – Carole Weitzman
*Production Assistant – Yung Shin
*Creative Director – Jay Bacal
*Copyright [[1985]] Sunbow productions Inc.
*Distributed by – Claster TV Productions
**A Division of Hasbro Industries
*Hasbro logo image
**Copyright 1984 Hasbro Industries Inc. All Rights Reserved.
**Trademark of Hasbro Industries Inc. and is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office
*Title Song by – Ford Kinder and Ann Bryant
*Music Composed and Conducted by – Johnny Douglas, [[Robert J. Walsh|Rob Walsh]]
*Executive in Charge of Production – Lee Gunther
*Produced by – Nelson Shin
*Executive Producers – Joe Bacal, Margaret Loesch, Tom Griffin
*Sunbow Productions and Marvel Productions title card

===Season 2===
[[File:G1 Blitzwing crushed season 2 intro.JPG|thumb|upright=1.6]]
*Supervising Producer – Nelson Shin
*Producers – [[George Singer]], John Walker, [[Gwen Wetzler]]
*Production Coordinator – [[Paul Davids]]
*Director of Production – [[Jim Graziano]]
*Supervising Director – Terry Lennon
*Directors – Norm McCabe, [[Bob Shellhorn]], [[Karen Peterson]], [[Bob Kirk]], [[Bob Treat]], Tom Ray, [[Margaret Nichols]], [[Bob Matz]], [[Al Kouzel]], Andy Kim
*Production Manager – Yung Shin
*Story Editors – Dick Robbins, Bryce Malek
*Additional Dialogue by – Ron Friedman
*Voice Director – Wally Burr
*Voice Talents of – [[Jack Angel]], [[Arlene Banas]], Michael Bell, Gregg Berger, Arthur Burghardt, Corey Burton, [[Michael Chain]], Scatman Crothers, Peter Cullen, [[Bud Davis]], [[Walker Edmiston]], [[Paul Eiding]], [[Ed Gilbert]], Dan Gilvezan, Michael Horton, [[Buster Jones]], Victor Caroli
*Voice Talents of – Casey Kasem, Chris Latta, [[Morgan Lofting]], Don Messick, [[Michael McConnohie|Mike McConnohie]], [[Alan Oppenheimer]], Hal Rayle, [[Peter Renaday|Peter Reneday]], Clive Revill, Neil Ross, Ken Sansom, John Stephenson, Frank Welker
*Voice Processing – Scott Brownlee, [[Wally Burr Recording]]
*Storyboard Supervisor – [[Don Goodman]]
*Storyboard by – Peter Chung, Greg Davidson, George Goode, Doug Lefler, Gerald Moeller, David Russell, [[David Shin]], Roy Shishido, [[Vincenzo Trippetti]], Wendell Washer
*Model and Background Design by – Floro Dery, Gadriel Hoyos, [[Dell Barras]], [[Fred Carrillo]], [[Romeo Tanghal]], [[Pat Agnasin]], [[Romeo Francisco]]
*Color Models – [[Phyllis Craig]]
*Key Background – Dennis Venizelos, [[Bob Schaefer]], [[Phil Phillipson]]
*Supervising Editor – Robert T. Gillis
*Music Editors – Joe Siracusa, Mark Shiney, [[Peter Collier]]
*Sound Effects Editors – Richard Gannon, Jim Blodgett, Michael L. DePatie, [[Nicholas James]], [[Efraim Reuveni]], Bruce Elliott, Michael Tomack, John Detra, Ron Fedele, Allison Cobb
*Sunbow Productions
**Associate Producers – [[Flint Dille]], [[Roger Slifer]]
**Production Manager – Carole Weitzman
**Production Assistant – [[Terri Gruskin]]
*Creative Director – Jay Bacal
**Copyright 1985 Sunbow Productions Inc.
**Copyright 1985 [[Wildstar Music]], Inc.
*Distributed by – Claster Television Productions
**A Division of Hasbro, Inc.
*Hasbro, Inc.
**Copyright 1985 Hasbro Industries Inc. All Rights Reserved.
**Trademark of Hasbro Industries Inc. and is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office
*Title Song by – Ford Kinder and Ann Bryant
*Music Composed and Conducted by – Johnny Douglas, Rob Walsh
*Executive in Charge of Production – Lee Gunther
*Executive Producers – Joe Bacal, Margaret Loesch, Tom Griffin
*Sunbow Productions and Marvel Productions title card

===Season 3===
[[File:Intro3 4 with error.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6]]
*Supervising Director – [[Ray Lee]], Andy Kim
*Sequence Directors – Warren Batchelder, [[Bob Bemiller]], [[Rudy Cataldi]], Gerry Chiniquy, [[Charlie Downs]], [[Lillian Evans]], [[Caroline Heyward]], Bob Kirk, [[Bill Knoll]], Bob Matz, Norm McCabe, [[Joe Morrison]], Margaret Nichols, [[Spencer Peel]], Karen Peterson, [[Stan Phillips]], Tom Ray, Bob Treat, [[Neal Warner]]
*Assistants to the Supervisors – [[Myrna Bushman]], [[Lisa Wilson]]
*Background Supervisors – Dennis Venizelos
*Voice Talents of – [[Charlie Adler]], Jack Angel, Arlene Banas, [[Roger Behr]], Michael Bell, Gregg Berger, [[Susan Blu]], Corey Burton, [[Roger C. Carmel]], Victor Caroli, Michael Chain, [[Philip L. Clarke|Phillip Clarke]], [[Regis Cordic|Rege Cordic]], Peter Cullen, Bud Davis, Paul Eiding, [[Laurie Faso]], [[Ron Feinberg]], [[Ron Gans]], [[Linda Gary]], [[Brad Garrett]], [[Dick Gautier]], Ed Gilbert, Dan Gilvezan, [[Johnny Haymer|John Haymer]], [[John Hostetter]], [[Jerry Houser]]
*Voice Talents of – [[Milt Jamin]], Buster Jones, Casey Kasem, [[Aron Kincaid]], Chris Latta, [[Joe Leahy]], [[Jeff MacKay]], [[Terry McGovern]], [[David Mendenhall]], [[Denise Mora]], [[John Moschitta]], Allen Oppenheimer, [[Rob Paulsen]], [[Tony Pope]], [[Bill Ratner]], Hal Rayle, Clive Revill, Neil Ross, [[Ted Schwartz]], [[Tony St. James]], John Stephenson, Frank Welker, [[Beau Weaver]]
*Voices Directed by – Wally Burr
* Voice Recording Engineer – [[Joel Iwataki]]
*Recording Coordinator – [[Ellen Burr]]
*Storyboard Artists – Dell Barras, [[Bill Barry]], [[Danny Bulanadi]], [[Su-yong Jeong|Soo Young Chung]], [[Joo In Kim]], David Shin, [[Leo Sullivan]], [[Young Sang Yoon]]
*Model and Background Design – [[Pat Agnasin]], Fred Carrillo, [[Eufronio R. Cruz]], Romeo Francisco, Gadriel Hoyos, [[Rico Rival]]
*Key Background Design – Dennis Venizelos, Bob Schaffer, Phil Phillipson, [[Jeff Richards]], [[Fred Warter]]
*Color Models – Phyllis Craig
*Supervising Editor – [[Steven C. Brown]]
*Assistants to the Supervising Editor – [[Larry Whelan]], [[Rick Gehr]]
*Music Editors – Joe Siracusa, Mark Shiney, Peter Collier
* Effects Editors – Jim Blodgett, [[Matt Cope]], Mike DePatie, John Detra, [[Karen Doulac]], Ron Fedele, Allison Cobb, [[Lenny Geschke]], [[Brad Gunther]], [[David Hankins]], Nick James, [[Richard Raderman]], [[Joseph Sorokin]], [[Warren Taylor]], Michael Tomack, [[Peter Tomaszewicz]]
*Music Editors – Mark Shiney, Peter Collier, [[Robert Randles]] S.M.E., [[Bob Mayer]], Richard Allen
*Dubbing Supervisors – [[Jacquie Freeman]], [[John Hart]]
*Telecine Supervisors – [[Sarah Swiskow]], [[Andrew Golov]]
*Post Production Supervisors – [[Eric Early]], [[Steven Heth]]
*Production Managers – Carole Weitzman, Yung Shin
*Production Coordinators – Paul Davids, [[Elise Goyette]], [[Hildy Mesnik]]
*Production Assistants – [[Mitsuko Hayes]], [[Lizabeth Elliott]]
*Director of Production – Jim Graziano
*Supervising Producer – Nelson Shin
*Producers – Gerald Moeller, George Singer
*Original Music Score Composed and Conducted by – Robert J. Walsh, Johnny Douglas
*Main Title Theme
**Music and Lyrics by – Ford Kinder, Anne Bryant
*Post-Production Services – [[L. Ed Walsh]], [[Terry Jennings]], [[Saturday Morning Incorporated]]
*Co-Producer – Roger Slifer
*Story Editors – Flint Dille, [[Steve Gerber]], [[Marv Wolfman]]
*Creative Director – Jay Bacal
*Copyright [[1986]] Sunbow Productions, Inc.
*Copyright 1986 Wildstar Music, Inc.
*Copyright 1986 [[Starwild Music]], Inc.
*Distributed by – Claster Television Productions
**A Division of Hasbro, Inc.
*Hasbro, Inc.
**Copyright 1986 Hasbro Industries Inc. All Rights Reserved.
**Trademark of Hasbro Industries Inc. and is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office
* Executive in Charge of Production – Lee Gunther
*Executive Producers – Joe Bacal, Margaret Loesch, Tom Griffin
*Sunbow Productions and Marvel Productions title card

===Season 4===
[[File:Scorponok-Rebirth.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6]]
*Director – [[Jae ho Hong]]
*Assistant Directors – [[Mooyoung Song]], [[Kyungme Kim]]
*Animators – [[Youngduk Kim]], [[Kyungkwan Kim]], [[Baekyup Sung]], [[Sungok Sung]], [[Chiman Park]], [[Byungchong Oh]], [[Nosoo Kwak]], [[Byungnam Choi]], [[Eynam Park]], [[Myunghi Park]], [[Chigeun Kang]], [[Hanyong Chung]], [[Sang Il Sim]], [[Namyul Baik]], [[Youngchan Shin]]
*Voice Talents of – Charlie Adler, Jack Angel, [[Jered Barclay]], Michael Bell, Susan Blu, [[Steve Bulen]], Corey Burton, Victor Caroli, Peter Cullen, Dick Gautier, Dan Gilvezan, John Haymer, Milt Jamin, [[Stan Jones]], [[Stephen Keener]], Chris Latta, [[Danny Mann]], David Mendenhall, Rob Paulson, Neil Ross, John Stephenson, Frank Welker
*Voices Directed by – Wally Burr
* Voice Recording Engineers – Joel Iwataki, [[Sylvester Rivers]], Scott Brownlee
*Recording Coordinator – Ellen Burr
*Editor – [[Al Breitenbach]]
*Assistant Editor – [[David Weathers]]
*Post Production Services – [[Paul Vitello]] & Associates
*Telecine Supervisor – Sarah Swiskow
*Post Production Supervisors – Eric Early
*Production Managers – Gerald Moeller, Elise Goyette
*Production Assistant – [[Laurie Pessell]]
*Director of Production – Jim Graziano
*Senior Production Manager – Carole Weitzman
*Original Music Score Composed and Conducted by – Robert J. Walsh, Johnny Douglas
*Main Title Theme by – Kinder and Bryant
*Copyright [[1987]] Sunbow Productions, Inc.
*Copyright 1986 Wildstar Music, Inc.
*Copyright 1986 Starwild Music, Inc.
*Creative Director – Jay Bacal
*Distributed by – Claster Television Productions
**A Division of Hasbro, Inc.
*Hasbro, Inc.
**Copyright 1986 Hasbro Industries Inc. All Rights Reserved.
**Trademark of Hasbro Industries Inc. and is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office
*Produced by – Nelson Shin
*Executive in Charge of Production – Lee Gunther
*Executive Producers – Joe Bacal, Margaret Loesch, Tom Griffin
*Sunbow Productions and Marvel Productions title card

===Season 5===
[[File:PrimeTommyCommercialBumper.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6]]
*Live Action Sequences
**Tommy – [[Jason Jansen]]
**[[Optimus Prime (G1) |Optimus Prime]] – Peter Cullen
**Head Puppeteer – [[Marty Robinson]]
**Director – [[Peter Wallach]]
**Production Designer – [[Mike Sullivan]]
**Director of Photography – Mike Sullivan
**Writer – Roger Slifer
**Producer – [[Tim Speidel]]
**Line Producer – [[Edward Lee Rapp]]
**Animator – [[Joe Laudati]]
**Supervising Editor – [[Lisa Orlando]]
**Production Manager – [[Nel Lombardo]]

As season 5 was a repackage of older episodes, the original credits for the appropriate season were used.

==Notes==
*Frank Welker is not listed in the credits for the [[More than Meets the Eye (mini-series)|More than Meets the Eye]] miniseries.
*Some credits had misspellings or typos in the credited names:
**Paul Gruwell last name is misspelled as Grewell.
**Larry Strauss is credited as Larry Strass.
**Lindsay Dawson's first name is misspelled as Lynsey.
**Leandro Martinez's first name is spelled Leondro.
**Alan Oppenheimer's first name is listed as Allan.
**Bob Schaefer's last name is misspelled as Schaffer.
**Casey Kasem's first name is incorrectly listed as Kasey in season 3.
**Aron Kincaid's last name is misspelled as Kindaid.
**Rob Paulsen's last name is listed as Paulson.
**Gerald Moeller's last name is spelled as Modeller in the season 3 credits.
**Su-yong Jeong is credited as Soo Young Chung.
**Jae ho Hong was credited as Jaeho Hong.
**Sang Il Sim was listed as Sangil Shim.
**Jered Barclay's first name is misspelled as Jared.
*For the DVD releases, the Season 1 footage restoration included rebuilt credits, using "textless" shots from the miniseries and overlaying "newly" created text layers, in a font similar to the originals, but there were a few new errors introduced. Norm McCabe is displayed as "NOR M McCABE" in the restored miniseries credits, and (small nitpick) there is a period missing from the phrase "Trademark Office". [[Transport to Oblivion (episode)|Transport to Oblivion]] and [[Roll for It]] use the miniseries credits instead of the expanded season 1 credits. [[Divide and Conquer]], [[Fire in the Sky]], [[War of the Dinobots]], [[The Ultimate Doom, Part 3]], and [[Countdown to Extinction (episode)|Countdown to Extinction]] use the season 2 credits overlayed onto the season 1 closing animation.

[[Category:Generation 1 media]]
[[Category:Media credits]]

The Transformers (cartoon)/credits

2024-07-22T20:50:16Z

JoseBxR: /* Notes */ Clarifying the nature of the DVD credits, and moving the "NOR M" reference here

{{Nav-G1cartoon}}

==End Credits==
===Season 1 More than Meets the Eye miniseries===
[[File:G1season1intro01.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6]]
*Supervising Director – [[John Gibbs]]
*Sequence Directors – [[Dave Brain]], [[Gerry Chiniquy]], [[Jeff Hale]], [[Norm McCabe]], [[Tom Ray]], [[Dan Thompson]], [[James T. Walker]], [[John Walker]], [[Warren Batchelder]],
*Voice Director – [[Wally Burr]]
*Voice Talents of – [[Michael Bell]], [[Corey Burton]], [[Peter Cullen]], [[Dan Gilvezan]], [[Casey Kasem]], [[Chris Latta]], [[Don Messick]], [[Ken Sansom]], [[Scatman Crothers]], [[John Stephenson]], [[Victor Caroli]]
*Voice Processing – [[Scott Brownlee]], [[Soundtraxx]]
*[[Storyboard]] by – [[Floro Dery]], [[Jim Fletcher]], [[George Goode]], [[Paul Gruwell]], [[Peter Chung]], [[David Russell]], [[Don Sheppard]], [[Bob Smith]], [[Victor Dal Chele|Vic Dalchele]], [[Gregg Davidson|Greg Davidson]]
*[[Character model|Model]] and Background Design by – Floro Dery, George Goode, [[Andy Kim]]
*Supervising Editor – [[Robert T. Gillis]]
*Music Editors – [[Joe Siracusa]], [[Mark Shiney]]
*Sound Effects Editors – [[Richard Gannon]], [[Bruce Elliott]], [[Ron Fedele]], [[Michael Tomack|Mike Tomack]], [[Jim Blodgett]], [[John Detra]], [[Michael L. DePatie]]
*Production Manager – [[Carole Weitzman]]
*Production Assistant – [[Yung Shin]]
*Creative Director – [[Jay Bacal]]
*Distributed by – [[Claster Television|Claster TV Productions]]
**A Division of [[Hasbro]] Industries
*Hasbro logo image
**Copyright [[1984]] Hasbro Industries Inc. All Rights Reserved.
**Trademark of Hasbro Industries Inc. and is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office
* Produced in Association with – [[Toei Animation|Toei Doga]]
**Copyright [[1984]] [[Sunbow Productions]] Inc.
*Music by – [[Johnny Douglas]]
*Title Song by – [[Ford Kinder]] and [[Anne Bryant|Ann Bryant]]
*Executive in Charge of Production – [[Lee Gunther]]
*Written by – [[George Arthur Bloom]]
*Produced by – [[Nelson Shin]]
*Executive Producers – [[Joe Bacal]], [[Margaret Loesch]], [[Tom Griffin]]
*Sunbow Productions and [[Marvel Productions]] title card

===Season 1 Expanded Credits===
*Story Editors – [[Dick Robbins]], [[Bryce Malek]]
*Written By – [[Douglas Booth]], [[Donald F. Glut]], [[Alfred A. Pegal]], [[Larry Strauss]], [[Earl Kress]], [[Leo D. Paur]], [[Reed Robbins]], [[Peter Salas]]
*Additional Dialogue by – [[Ron Friedman]]
*Voice Talents of – Michael Bell, Corey Burton, Peter Cullen, Dan Gilvezan, Casey Kasem, Chris Latta, Don Messick, Ken Sansom, Scatman Crothers, John Stephenson
*Voice Talents of – Victor Caroli, [[Gregg Berger]], [[Michael Horton]], [[Mona Marshall]], [[Hal Rayle]], [[Clive Revill]], [[Neil Ross]], [[Frank Welker]], [[Arthur Burghardt]]
*Voice Processing – Scott Brownlee, Soundtraxx
*Director – John Walker
*Sequence Directors – John Gibbs, Norm McCabe, Jeff Hale, [[Brad Case]]
*Storyboard Supervisor – [[Don Goodman]]
*Storyboard by – Floro Dery, George Goode, Peter Chung, [[Wendell Washer]], David Russell, Bob Smith, Greg Davidson, [[Lindsay Dawson]], [[Doug Lefler]], [[Gerald Moeller]], [[Brian Ray]], [[Rhoydon Shishido|Roy Shishido]], [[George Scribner]]
*Model and Background Design by – Floro Dery
*Assistant Designs by – [[Gabriel Hoyos]], [[Leandro Martinez]]
*Key Background – [[Dennis Venizelos]]
*Supervising Editor – Robert T. Gillis
*Music Editors – Joe Siracusa, Mark Shiney
*Sound Effects Editors – Michael L. DePatie, Richard Gannon, [[Richard Allen]], Jim Blodgett, Bruce Elliott, Mike Tomack, John Detra, Ron Fedele
*Director of Production – Carole Weitzman
*Production Assistant – Yung Shin
*Creative Director – Jay Bacal
*Copyright [[1985]] Sunbow productions Inc.
*Distributed by – Claster TV Productions
**A Division of Hasbro Industries
*Hasbro logo image
**Copyright 1984 Hasbro Industries Inc. All Rights Reserved.
**Trademark of Hasbro Industries Inc. and is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office
*Title Song by – Ford Kinder and Ann Bryant
*Music Composed and Conducted by – Johnny Douglas, [[Robert J. Walsh|Rob Walsh]]
*Executive in Charge of Production – Lee Gunther
*Produced by – Nelson Shin
*Executive Producers – Joe Bacal, Margaret Loesch, Tom Griffin
*Sunbow Productions and Marvel Productions title card

===Season 2===
[[File:G1 Blitzwing crushed season 2 intro.JPG|thumb|upright=1.6]]
*Supervising Producer – Nelson Shin
*Producers – [[George Singer]], John Walker, [[Gwen Wetzler]]
*Production Coordinator – [[Paul Davids]]
*Director of Production – [[Jim Graziano]]
*Supervising Director – Terry Lennon
*Directors – Norm McCabe, [[Bob Shellhorn]], [[Karen Peterson]], [[Bob Kirk]], [[Bob Treat]], Tom Ray, [[Margaret Nichols]], [[Bob Matz]], [[Al Kouzel]], Andy Kim
*Production Manager – Yung Shin
*Story Editors – Dick Robbins, Bryce Malek
*Additional Dialogue by – Ron Friedman
*Voice Director – Wally Burr
*Voice Talents of – [[Jack Angel]], [[Arlene Banas]], Michael Bell, Gregg Berger, Arthur Burghardt, Corey Burton, [[Michael Chain]], Scatman Crothers, Peter Cullen, [[Bud Davis]], [[Walker Edmiston]], [[Paul Eiding]], [[Ed Gilbert]], Dan Gilvezan, Michael Horton, [[Buster Jones]], Victor Caroli
*Voice Talents of – Casey Kasem, Chris Latta, [[Morgan Lofting]], Don Messick, [[Michael McConnohie|Mike McConnohie]], [[Alan Oppenheimer]], Hal Rayle, [[Peter Renaday|Peter Reneday]], Clive Revill, Neil Ross, Ken Sansom, John Stephenson, Frank Welker
*Voice Processing – Scott Brownlee, [[Wally Burr Recording]]
*Storyboard Supervisor – [[Don Goodman]]
*Storyboard by – Peter Chung, Greg Davidson, George Goode, Doug Lefler, Gerald Moeller, David Russell, [[David Shin]], Roy Shishido, [[Vincenzo Trippetti]], Wendell Washer
*Model and Background Design by – Floro Dery, Gadriel Hoyos, [[Dell Barras]], [[Fred Carrillo]], [[Romeo Tanghal]], [[Pat Agnasin]], [[Romeo Francisco]]
*Color Models – [[Phyllis Craig]]
*Key Background – Dennis Venizelos, [[Bob Schaefer]], [[Phil Phillipson]]
*Supervising Editor – Robert T. Gillis
*Music Editors – Joe Siracusa, Mark Shiney, [[Peter Collier]]
*Sound Effects Editors – Richard Gannon, Jim Blodgett, Michael L. DePatie, [[Nicholas James]], [[Efraim Reuveni]], Bruce Elliott, Michael Tomack, John Detra, Ron Fedele, Allison Cobb
*Sunbow Productions
**Associate Producers – [[Flint Dille]], [[Roger Slifer]]
**Production Manager – Carole Weitzman
**Production Assistant – [[Terri Gruskin]]
*Creative Director – Jay Bacal
**Copyright 1985 Sunbow Productions Inc.
**Copyright 1985 [[Wildstar Music]], Inc.
*Distributed by – Claster Television Productions
**A Division of Hasbro, Inc.
*Hasbro, Inc.
**Copyright 1985 Hasbro Industries Inc. All Rights Reserved.
**Trademark of Hasbro Industries Inc. and is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office
*Title Song by – Ford Kinder and Ann Bryant
*Music Composed and Conducted by – Johnny Douglas, Rob Walsh
*Executive in Charge of Production – Lee Gunther
*Executive Producers – Joe Bacal, Margaret Loesch, Tom Griffin
*Sunbow Productions and Marvel Productions title card

===Season 3===
[[File:Intro3 4 with error.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6]]
*Supervising Director – [[Ray Lee]], Andy Kim
*Sequence Directors – Warren Batchelder, [[Bob Bemiller]], [[Rudy Cataldi]], Gerry Chiniquy, [[Charlie Downs]], [[Lillian Evans]], [[Caroline Heyward]], Bob Kirk, [[Bill Knoll]], Bob Matz, Norm McCabe, [[Joe Morrison]], Margaret Nichols, [[Spencer Peel]], Karen Peterson, [[Stan Phillips]], Tom Ray, Bob Treat, [[Neal Warner]]
*Assistants to the Supervisors – [[Myrna Bushman]], [[Lisa Wilson]]
*Background Supervisors – Dennis Venizelos
*Voice Talents of – [[Charlie Adler]], Jack Angel, Arlene Banas, [[Roger Behr]], Michael Bell, Gregg Berger, [[Susan Blu]], Corey Burton, [[Roger C. Carmel]], Victor Caroli, Michael Chain, [[Philip L. Clarke|Phillip Clarke]], [[Regis Cordic|Rege Cordic]], Peter Cullen, Bud Davis, Paul Eiding, [[Laurie Faso]], [[Ron Feinberg]], [[Ron Gans]], [[Linda Gary]], [[Brad Garrett]], [[Dick Gautier]], Ed Gilbert, Dan Gilvezan, [[Johnny Haymer|John Haymer]], [[John Hostetter]], [[Jerry Houser]]
*Voice Talents of – [[Milt Jamin]], Buster Jones, Casey Kasem, [[Aron Kincaid]], Chris Latta, [[Joe Leahy]], [[Jeff MacKay]], [[Terry McGovern]], [[David Mendenhall]], [[Denise Mora]], [[John Moschitta]], Allen Oppenheimer, [[Rob Paulsen]], [[Tony Pope]], [[Bill Ratner]], Hal Rayle, Clive Revill, Neil Ross, [[Ted Schwartz]], [[Tony St. James]], John Stephenson, Frank Welker, [[Beau Weaver]]
*Voices Directed by – Wally Burr
* Voice Recording Engineer – [[Joel Iwataki]]
*Recording Coordinator – [[Ellen Burr]]
*Storyboard Artists – Dell Barras, [[Bill Barry]], [[Danny Bulanadi]], [[Su-yong Jeong|Soo Young Chung]], [[Joo In Kim]], David Shin, [[Leo Sullivan]], [[Young Sang Yoon]]
*Model and Background Design – [[Pat Agnasin]], Fred Carrillo, [[Eufronio R. Cruz]], Romeo Francisco, Gadriel Hoyos, [[Rico Rival]]
*Key Background Design – Dennis Venizelos, Bob Schaffer, Phil Phillipson, [[Jeff Richards]], [[Fred Warter]]
*Color Models – Phyllis Craig
*Supervising Editor – [[Steven C. Brown]]
*Assistants to the Supervising Editor – [[Larry Whelan]], [[Rick Gehr]]
*Music Editors – Joe Siracusa, Mark Shiney, Peter Collier
* Effects Editors – Jim Blodgett, [[Matt Cope]], Mike DePatie, John Detra, [[Karen Doulac]], Ron Fedele, Allison Cobb, [[Lenny Geschke]], [[Brad Gunther]], [[David Hankins]], Nick James, [[Richard Raderman]], [[Joseph Sorokin]], [[Warren Taylor]], Michael Tomack, [[Peter Tomaszewicz]]
*Music Editors – Mark Shiney, Peter Collier, [[Robert Randles]] S.M.E., [[Bob Mayer]], Richard Allen
*Dubbing Supervisors – [[Jacquie Freeman]], [[John Hart]]
*Telecine Supervisors – [[Sarah Swiskow]], [[Andrew Golov]]
*Post Production Supervisors – [[Eric Early]], [[Steven Heth]]
*Production Managers – Carole Weitzman, Yung Shin
*Production Coordinators – Paul Davids, [[Elise Goyette]], [[Hildy Mesnik]]
*Production Assistants – [[Mitsuko Hayes]], [[Lizabeth Elliott]]
*Director of Production – Jim Graziano
*Supervising Producer – Nelson Shin
*Producers – Gerald Moeller, George Singer
*Original Music Score Composed and Conducted by – Robert J. Walsh, Johnny Douglas
*Main Title Theme
**Music and Lyrics by – Ford Kinder, Anne Bryant
*Post-Production Services – [[L. Ed Walsh]], [[Terry Jennings]], [[Saturday Morning Incorporated]]
*Co-Producer – Roger Slifer
*Story Editors – Flint Dille, [[Steve Gerber]], [[Marv Wolfman]]
*Creative Director – Jay Bacal
*Copyright [[1986]] Sunbow Productions, Inc.
*Copyright 1986 Wildstar Music, Inc.
*Copyright 1986 [[Starwild Music]], Inc.
*Distributed by – Claster Television Productions
**A Division of Hasbro, Inc.
*Hasbro, Inc.
**Copyright 1986 Hasbro Industries Inc. All Rights Reserved.
**Trademark of Hasbro Industries Inc. and is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office
* Executive in Charge of Production – Lee Gunther
*Executive Producers – Joe Bacal, Margaret Loesch, Tom Griffin
*Sunbow Productions and Marvel Productions title card

===Season 4===
[[File:Scorponok-Rebirth.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6]]
*Director – [[Jae ho Hong]]
*Assistant Directors – [[Mooyoung Song]], [[Kyungme Kim]]
*Animators – [[Youngduk Kim]], [[Kyungkwan Kim]], [[Baekyup Sung]], [[Sungok Sung]], [[Chiman Park]], [[Byungchong Oh]], [[Nosoo Kwak]], [[Byungnam Choi]], [[Eynam Park]], [[Myunghi Park]], [[Chigeun Kang]], [[Hanyong Chung]], [[Sang Il Sim]], [[Namyul Baik]], [[Youngchan Shin]]
*Voice Talents of – Charlie Adler, Jack Angel, [[Jered Barclay]], Michael Bell, Susan Blu, [[Steve Bulen]], Corey Burton, Victor Caroli, Peter Cullen, Dick Gautier, Dan Gilvezan, John Haymer, Milt Jamin, [[Stan Jones]], [[Stephen Keener]], Chris Latta, [[Danny Mann]], David Mendenhall, Rob Paulson, Neil Ross, John Stephenson, Frank Welker
*Voices Directed by – Wally Burr
* Voice Recording Engineers – Joel Iwataki, [[Sylvester Rivers]], Scott Brownlee
*Recording Coordinator – Ellen Burr
*Editor – [[Al Breitenbach]]
*Assistant Editor – [[David Weathers]]
*Post Production Services – [[Paul Vitello]] & Associates
*Telecine Supervisor – Sarah Swiskow
*Post Production Supervisors – Eric Early
*Production Managers – Gerald Moeller, Elise Goyette
*Production Assistant – [[Laurie Pessell]]
*Director of Production – Jim Graziano
*Senior Production Manager – Carole Weitzman
*Original Music Score Composed and Conducted by – Robert J. Walsh, Johnny Douglas
*Main Title Theme by – Kinder and Bryant
*Copyright [[1987]] Sunbow Productions, Inc.
*Copyright 1986 Wildstar Music, Inc.
*Copyright 1986 Starwild Music, Inc.
*Creative Director – Jay Bacal
*Distributed by – Claster Television Productions
**A Division of Hasbro, Inc.
*Hasbro, Inc.
**Copyright 1986 Hasbro Industries Inc. All Rights Reserved.
**Trademark of Hasbro Industries Inc. and is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office
*Produced by – Nelson Shin
*Executive in Charge of Production – Lee Gunther
*Executive Producers – Joe Bacal, Margaret Loesch, Tom Griffin
*Sunbow Productions and Marvel Productions title card

===Season 5===
[[File:PrimeTommyCommercialBumper.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6]]
*Live Action Sequences
**Tommy – [[Jason Jansen]]
**[[Optimus Prime (G1) |Optimus Prime]] – Peter Cullen
**Head Puppeteer – [[Marty Robinson]]
**Director – [[Peter Wallach]]
**Production Designer – [[Mike Sullivan]]
**Director of Photography – Mike Sullivan
**Writer – Roger Slifer
**Producer – [[Tim Speidel]]
**Line Producer – [[Edward Lee Rapp]]
**Animator – [[Joe Laudati]]
**Supervising Editor – [[Lisa Orlando]]
**Production Manager – [[Nel Lombardo]]

As season 5 was a repackage of older episodes, the original credits for the appropriate season were used.

==Notes==
*Frank Welker is not listed in the credits for the [[More than Meets the Eye (mini-series)|More than Meets the Eye]] miniseries.
*Some credits had misspellings or typos in the credited names:
**Paul Gruwell last name is misspelled as Grewell.
**Larry Strauss is credited as Larry Strass.
**Lindsay Dawson's first name is misspelled as Lynsey.
**Leandro Martinez's first name is spelled Leondro.
**Alan Oppenheimer's first name is listed as Allan.
**Bob Schaefer's last name is misspelled as Schaffer.
**Casey Kasem's first name is incorrectly listed as Kasey in season 3.
**Aron Kincaid's last name is misspelled as Kindaid.
**Rob Paulsen's last name is listed as Paulson.
**Gerald Moeller's last name is spelled as Modeller in the season 3 credits.
**Su-yong Jeong is credited as Soo Young Chung.
**Jae ho Hong was credited as Jaeho Hong.
**Sang Il Sim was listed as Sangil Shim.
**Jered Barclay's first name is misspelled as Jared.
*For the DVD releases, the Season 1 footage restoration included rebuilt credits, using "textless" shots from the miniseries and overlaying "newly" created text layers, in a font similar to the originals, but there were a few new errors introduced. Norm McCabe is displayed as "NOR M McCABE" in the restored miniseries credits, and (small nitpick) there is a period missing from the phrase "Trademark Office". [[Transport to Oblivion (episode)|Transport to Oblivion]] and [[Roll for It]] use the miniseries credits instead of the expanded season 1 credits. [[Divide and Conquer]], [[Fire in the Sky]], [[War of the Dinobots]], [[The Ultimate Doom, Part 3]], and [[Countdown to Extinction (episode)|Countdown to Extinction]] use the season 2 credits overlayed onto the season 1 closing animation.

[[Category:Generation 1 media]]
[[Category:Media credits]]

The Transformers (cartoon)/credits

2024-07-22T20:16:19Z

JoseBxR: /* Notes */ Line removed for being a Rhino DVD error. "Norm McCabe" was always correctly displayed

{{Nav-G1cartoon}}

==End Credits==
===Season 1 More than Meets the Eye miniseries===
[[File:G1season1intro01.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6]]
*Supervising Director – [[John Gibbs]]
*Sequence Directors – [[Dave Brain]], [[Gerry Chiniquy]], [[Jeff Hale]], [[Norm McCabe]], [[Tom Ray]], [[Dan Thompson]], [[James T. Walker]], [[John Walker]], [[Warren Batchelder]],
*Voice Director – [[Wally Burr]]
*Voice Talents of – [[Michael Bell]], [[Corey Burton]], [[Peter Cullen]], [[Dan Gilvezan]], [[Casey Kasem]], [[Chris Latta]], [[Don Messick]], [[Ken Sansom]], [[Scatman Crothers]], [[John Stephenson]], [[Victor Caroli]]
*Voice Processing – [[Scott Brownlee]], [[Soundtraxx]]
*[[Storyboard]] by – [[Floro Dery]], [[Jim Fletcher]], [[George Goode]], [[Paul Gruwell]], [[Peter Chung]], [[David Russell]], [[Don Sheppard]], [[Bob Smith]], [[Victor Dal Chele|Vic Dalchele]], [[Gregg Davidson|Greg Davidson]]
*[[Character model|Model]] and Background Design by – Floro Dery, George Goode, [[Andy Kim]]
*Supervising Editor – [[Robert T. Gillis]]
*Music Editors – [[Joe Siracusa]], [[Mark Shiney]]
*Sound Effects Editors – [[Richard Gannon]], [[Bruce Elliott]], [[Ron Fedele]], [[Michael Tomack|Mike Tomack]], [[Jim Blodgett]], [[John Detra]], [[Michael L. DePatie]]
*Production Manager – [[Carole Weitzman]]
*Production Assistant – [[Yung Shin]]
*Creative Director – [[Jay Bacal]]
*Distributed by – [[Claster Television|Claster TV Productions]]
**A Division of [[Hasbro]] Industries
*Hasbro logo image
**Copyright [[1984]] Hasbro Industries Inc. All Rights Reserved.
**Trademark of Hasbro Industries Inc. and is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office
* Produced in Association with – [[Toei Animation|Toei Doga]]
**Copyright [[1984]] [[Sunbow Productions]] Inc.
*Music by – [[Johnny Douglas]]
*Title Song by – [[Ford Kinder]] and [[Anne Bryant|Ann Bryant]]
*Executive in Charge of Production – [[Lee Gunther]]
*Written by – [[George Arthur Bloom]]
*Produced by – [[Nelson Shin]]
*Executive Producers – [[Joe Bacal]], [[Margaret Loesch]], [[Tom Griffin]]
*Sunbow Productions and [[Marvel Productions]] title card

===Season 1 Expanded Credits===
*Story Editors – [[Dick Robbins]], [[Bryce Malek]]
*Written By – [[Douglas Booth]], [[Donald F. Glut]], [[Alfred A. Pegal]], [[Larry Strauss]], [[Earl Kress]], [[Leo D. Paur]], [[Reed Robbins]], [[Peter Salas]]
*Additional Dialogue by – [[Ron Friedman]]
*Voice Talents of – Michael Bell, Corey Burton, Peter Cullen, Dan Gilvezan, Casey Kasem, Chris Latta, Don Messick, Ken Sansom, Scatman Crothers, John Stephenson
*Voice Talents of – Victor Caroli, [[Gregg Berger]], [[Michael Horton]], [[Mona Marshall]], [[Hal Rayle]], [[Clive Revill]], [[Neil Ross]], [[Frank Welker]], [[Arthur Burghardt]]
*Voice Processing – Scott Brownlee, Soundtraxx
*Director – John Walker
*Sequence Directors – John Gibbs, Norm McCabe, Jeff Hale, [[Brad Case]]
*Storyboard Supervisor – [[Don Goodman]]
*Storyboard by – Floro Dery, George Goode, Peter Chung, [[Wendell Washer]], David Russell, Bob Smith, Greg Davidson, [[Lindsay Dawson]], [[Doug Lefler]], [[Gerald Moeller]], [[Brian Ray]], [[Rhoydon Shishido|Roy Shishido]], [[George Scribner]]
*Model and Background Design by – Floro Dery
*Assistant Designs by – [[Gabriel Hoyos]], [[Leandro Martinez]]
*Key Background – [[Dennis Venizelos]]
*Supervising Editor – Robert T. Gillis
*Music Editors – Joe Siracusa, Mark Shiney
*Sound Effects Editors – Michael L. DePatie, Richard Gannon, [[Richard Allen]], Jim Blodgett, Bruce Elliott, Mike Tomack, John Detra, Ron Fedele
*Director of Production – Carole Weitzman
*Production Assistant – Yung Shin
*Creative Director – Jay Bacal
*Copyright [[1985]] Sunbow productions Inc.
*Distributed by – Claster TV Productions
**A Division of Hasbro Industries
*Hasbro logo image
**Copyright 1984 Hasbro Industries Inc. All Rights Reserved.
**Trademark of Hasbro Industries Inc. and is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office
*Title Song by – Ford Kinder and Ann Bryant
*Music Composed and Conducted by – Johnny Douglas, [[Robert J. Walsh|Rob Walsh]]
*Executive in Charge of Production – Lee Gunther
*Produced by – Nelson Shin
*Executive Producers – Joe Bacal, Margaret Loesch, Tom Griffin
*Sunbow Productions and Marvel Productions title card

===Season 2===
[[File:G1 Blitzwing crushed season 2 intro.JPG|thumb|upright=1.6]]
*Supervising Producer – Nelson Shin
*Producers – [[George Singer]], John Walker, [[Gwen Wetzler]]
*Production Coordinator – [[Paul Davids]]
*Director of Production – [[Jim Graziano]]
*Supervising Director – Terry Lennon
*Directors – Norm McCabe, [[Bob Shellhorn]], [[Karen Peterson]], [[Bob Kirk]], [[Bob Treat]], Tom Ray, [[Margaret Nichols]], [[Bob Matz]], [[Al Kouzel]], Andy Kim
*Production Manager – Yung Shin
*Story Editors – Dick Robbins, Bryce Malek
*Additional Dialogue by – Ron Friedman
*Voice Director – Wally Burr
*Voice Talents of – [[Jack Angel]], [[Arlene Banas]], Michael Bell, Gregg Berger, Arthur Burghardt, Corey Burton, [[Michael Chain]], Scatman Crothers, Peter Cullen, [[Bud Davis]], [[Walker Edmiston]], [[Paul Eiding]], [[Ed Gilbert]], Dan Gilvezan, Michael Horton, [[Buster Jones]], Victor Caroli
*Voice Talents of – Casey Kasem, Chris Latta, [[Morgan Lofting]], Don Messick, [[Michael McConnohie|Mike McConnohie]], [[Alan Oppenheimer]], Hal Rayle, [[Peter Renaday|Peter Reneday]], Clive Revill, Neil Ross, Ken Sansom, John Stephenson, Frank Welker
*Voice Processing – Scott Brownlee, [[Wally Burr Recording]]
*Storyboard Supervisor – [[Don Goodman]]
*Storyboard by – Peter Chung, Greg Davidson, George Goode, Doug Lefler, Gerald Moeller, David Russell, [[David Shin]], Roy Shishido, [[Vincenzo Trippetti]], Wendell Washer
*Model and Background Design by – Floro Dery, Gadriel Hoyos, [[Dell Barras]], [[Fred Carrillo]], [[Romeo Tanghal]], [[Pat Agnasin]], [[Romeo Francisco]]
*Color Models – [[Phyllis Craig]]
*Key Background – Dennis Venizelos, [[Bob Schaefer]], [[Phil Phillipson]]
*Supervising Editor – Robert T. Gillis
*Music Editors – Joe Siracusa, Mark Shiney, [[Peter Collier]]
*Sound Effects Editors – Richard Gannon, Jim Blodgett, Michael L. DePatie, [[Nicholas James]], [[Efraim Reuveni]], Bruce Elliott, Michael Tomack, John Detra, Ron Fedele, Allison Cobb
*Sunbow Productions
**Associate Producers – [[Flint Dille]], [[Roger Slifer]]
**Production Manager – Carole Weitzman
**Production Assistant – [[Terri Gruskin]]
*Creative Director – Jay Bacal
**Copyright 1985 Sunbow Productions Inc.
**Copyright 1985 [[Wildstar Music]], Inc.
*Distributed by – Claster Television Productions
**A Division of Hasbro, Inc.
*Hasbro, Inc.
**Copyright 1985 Hasbro Industries Inc. All Rights Reserved.
**Trademark of Hasbro Industries Inc. and is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office
*Title Song by – Ford Kinder and Ann Bryant
*Music Composed and Conducted by – Johnny Douglas, Rob Walsh
*Executive in Charge of Production – Lee Gunther
*Executive Producers – Joe Bacal, Margaret Loesch, Tom Griffin
*Sunbow Productions and Marvel Productions title card

===Season 3===
[[File:Intro3 4 with error.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6]]
*Supervising Director – [[Ray Lee]], Andy Kim
*Sequence Directors – Warren Batchelder, [[Bob Bemiller]], [[Rudy Cataldi]], Gerry Chiniquy, [[Charlie Downs]], [[Lillian Evans]], [[Caroline Heyward]], Bob Kirk, [[Bill Knoll]], Bob Matz, Norm McCabe, [[Joe Morrison]], Margaret Nichols, [[Spencer Peel]], Karen Peterson, [[Stan Phillips]], Tom Ray, Bob Treat, [[Neal Warner]]
*Assistants to the Supervisors – [[Myrna Bushman]], [[Lisa Wilson]]
*Background Supervisors – Dennis Venizelos
*Voice Talents of – [[Charlie Adler]], Jack Angel, Arlene Banas, [[Roger Behr]], Michael Bell, Gregg Berger, [[Susan Blu]], Corey Burton, [[Roger C. Carmel]], Victor Caroli, Michael Chain, [[Philip L. Clarke|Phillip Clarke]], [[Regis Cordic|Rege Cordic]], Peter Cullen, Bud Davis, Paul Eiding, [[Laurie Faso]], [[Ron Feinberg]], [[Ron Gans]], [[Linda Gary]], [[Brad Garrett]], [[Dick Gautier]], Ed Gilbert, Dan Gilvezan, [[Johnny Haymer|John Haymer]], [[John Hostetter]], [[Jerry Houser]]
*Voice Talents of – [[Milt Jamin]], Buster Jones, Casey Kasem, [[Aron Kincaid]], Chris Latta, [[Joe Leahy]], [[Jeff MacKay]], [[Terry McGovern]], [[David Mendenhall]], [[Denise Mora]], [[John Moschitta]], Allen Oppenheimer, [[Rob Paulsen]], [[Tony Pope]], [[Bill Ratner]], Hal Rayle, Clive Revill, Neil Ross, [[Ted Schwartz]], [[Tony St. James]], John Stephenson, Frank Welker, [[Beau Weaver]]
*Voices Directed by – Wally Burr
* Voice Recording Engineer – [[Joel Iwataki]]
*Recording Coordinator – [[Ellen Burr]]
*Storyboard Artists – Dell Barras, [[Bill Barry]], [[Danny Bulanadi]], [[Su-yong Jeong|Soo Young Chung]], [[Joo In Kim]], David Shin, [[Leo Sullivan]], [[Young Sang Yoon]]
*Model and Background Design – [[Pat Agnasin]], Fred Carrillo, [[Eufronio R. Cruz]], Romeo Francisco, Gadriel Hoyos, [[Rico Rival]]
*Key Background Design – Dennis Venizelos, Bob Schaffer, Phil Phillipson, [[Jeff Richards]], [[Fred Warter]]
*Color Models – Phyllis Craig
*Supervising Editor – [[Steven C. Brown]]
*Assistants to the Supervising Editor – [[Larry Whelan]], [[Rick Gehr]]
*Music Editors – Joe Siracusa, Mark Shiney, Peter Collier
* Effects Editors – Jim Blodgett, [[Matt Cope]], Mike DePatie, John Detra, [[Karen Doulac]], Ron Fedele, Allison Cobb, [[Lenny Geschke]], [[Brad Gunther]], [[David Hankins]], Nick James, [[Richard Raderman]], [[Joseph Sorokin]], [[Warren Taylor]], Michael Tomack, [[Peter Tomaszewicz]]
*Music Editors – Mark Shiney, Peter Collier, [[Robert Randles]] S.M.E., [[Bob Mayer]], Richard Allen
*Dubbing Supervisors – [[Jacquie Freeman]], [[John Hart]]
*Telecine Supervisors – [[Sarah Swiskow]], [[Andrew Golov]]
*Post Production Supervisors – [[Eric Early]], [[Steven Heth]]
*Production Managers – Carole Weitzman, Yung Shin
*Production Coordinators – Paul Davids, [[Elise Goyette]], [[Hildy Mesnik]]
*Production Assistants – [[Mitsuko Hayes]], [[Lizabeth Elliott]]
*Director of Production – Jim Graziano
*Supervising Producer – Nelson Shin
*Producers – Gerald Moeller, George Singer
*Original Music Score Composed and Conducted by – Robert J. Walsh, Johnny Douglas
*Main Title Theme
**Music and Lyrics by – Ford Kinder, Anne Bryant
*Post-Production Services – [[L. Ed Walsh]], [[Terry Jennings]], [[Saturday Morning Incorporated]]
*Co-Producer – Roger Slifer
*Story Editors – Flint Dille, [[Steve Gerber]], [[Marv Wolfman]]
*Creative Director – Jay Bacal
*Copyright [[1986]] Sunbow Productions, Inc.
*Copyright 1986 Wildstar Music, Inc.
*Copyright 1986 [[Starwild Music]], Inc.
*Distributed by – Claster Television Productions
**A Division of Hasbro, Inc.
*Hasbro, Inc.
**Copyright 1986 Hasbro Industries Inc. All Rights Reserved.
**Trademark of Hasbro Industries Inc. and is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office
* Executive in Charge of Production – Lee Gunther
*Executive Producers – Joe Bacal, Margaret Loesch, Tom Griffin
*Sunbow Productions and Marvel Productions title card

===Season 4===
[[File:Scorponok-Rebirth.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6]]
*Director – [[Jae ho Hong]]
*Assistant Directors – [[Mooyoung Song]], [[Kyungme Kim]]
*Animators – [[Youngduk Kim]], [[Kyungkwan Kim]], [[Baekyup Sung]], [[Sungok Sung]], [[Chiman Park]], [[Byungchong Oh]], [[Nosoo Kwak]], [[Byungnam Choi]], [[Eynam Park]], [[Myunghi Park]], [[Chigeun Kang]], [[Hanyong Chung]], [[Sang Il Sim]], [[Namyul Baik]], [[Youngchan Shin]]
*Voice Talents of – Charlie Adler, Jack Angel, [[Jered Barclay]], Michael Bell, Susan Blu, [[Steve Bulen]], Corey Burton, Victor Caroli, Peter Cullen, Dick Gautier, Dan Gilvezan, John Haymer, Milt Jamin, [[Stan Jones]], [[Stephen Keener]], Chris Latta, [[Danny Mann]], David Mendenhall, Rob Paulson, Neil Ross, John Stephenson, Frank Welker
*Voices Directed by – Wally Burr
* Voice Recording Engineers – Joel Iwataki, [[Sylvester Rivers]], Scott Brownlee
*Recording Coordinator – Ellen Burr
*Editor – [[Al Breitenbach]]
*Assistant Editor – [[David Weathers]]
*Post Production Services – [[Paul Vitello]] & Associates
*Telecine Supervisor – Sarah Swiskow
*Post Production Supervisors – Eric Early
*Production Managers – Gerald Moeller, Elise Goyette
*Production Assistant – [[Laurie Pessell]]
*Director of Production – Jim Graziano
*Senior Production Manager – Carole Weitzman
*Original Music Score Composed and Conducted by – Robert J. Walsh, Johnny Douglas
*Main Title Theme by – Kinder and Bryant
*Copyright [[1987]] Sunbow Productions, Inc.
*Copyright 1986 Wildstar Music, Inc.
*Copyright 1986 Starwild Music, Inc.
*Creative Director – Jay Bacal
*Distributed by – Claster Television Productions
**A Division of Hasbro, Inc.
*Hasbro, Inc.
**Copyright 1986 Hasbro Industries Inc. All Rights Reserved.
**Trademark of Hasbro Industries Inc. and is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office
*Produced by – Nelson Shin
*Executive in Charge of Production – Lee Gunther
*Executive Producers – Joe Bacal, Margaret Loesch, Tom Griffin
*Sunbow Productions and Marvel Productions title card

===Season 5===
[[File:PrimeTommyCommercialBumper.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6]]
*Live Action Sequences
**Tommy – [[Jason Jansen]]
**[[Optimus Prime (G1) |Optimus Prime]] – Peter Cullen
**Head Puppeteer – [[Marty Robinson]]
**Director – [[Peter Wallach]]
**Production Designer – [[Mike Sullivan]]
**Director of Photography – Mike Sullivan
**Writer – Roger Slifer
**Producer – [[Tim Speidel]]
**Line Producer – [[Edward Lee Rapp]]
**Animator – [[Joe Laudati]]
**Supervising Editor – [[Lisa Orlando]]
**Production Manager – [[Nel Lombardo]]

As season 5 was a repackage of older episodes, the original credits for the appropriate season were used.

==Notes==
*Frank Welker is not listed in the credits for the [[More than Meets the Eye (mini-series)|More than Meets the Eye]] miniseries.
*Some credits had misspellings or typos in the credited names:
**Paul Gruwell last name is misspelled as Grewell.
**Larry Strauss is credited as Larry Strass.
**Lindsay Dawson's first name is misspelled as Lynsey.
**Leandro Martinez's first name is spelled Leondro.
**Alan Oppenheimer's first name is listed as Allan.
**Bob Schaefer's last name is misspelled as Schaffer.
**Casey Kasem's first name is incorrectly listed as Kasey in season 3.
**Aron Kincaid's last name is misspelled as Kindaid.
**Rob Paulsen's last name is listed as Paulson.
**Gerald Moeller's last name is spelled as Modeller in the season 3 credits.
**Su-yong Jeong is credited as Soo Young Chung.
**Jae ho Hong was credited as Jaeho Hong.
**Sang Il Sim was listed as Sangil Shim.
**Jered Barclay's first name is misspelled as Jared.
*For the DVD releases, there were a few errors with credits on some season 1 episodes. [[Transport to Oblivion (episode)|Transport to Oblivion]], and [[Roll for It]] use the miniseries credits instead of the expanded season 1 credits. [[Divide and Conquer]], [[Fire in the Sky]], [[War of the Dinobots]], [[The Ultimate Doom, Part 3]], and [[Countdown to Extinction (episode)|Countdown to Extinction]] use the season 2 credits overlayed onto the season 1 closing animation.

[[Category:Generation 1 media]]
[[Category:Media credits]]

Talk:Rhino Entertainment

2024-07-22T19:58:02Z

JoseBxR: Created page with "==I'm Going Deep== As it turns out, this Rhino editing "rabbit hole" goes deeper than I could have imagined. It's more than unfinished footage, incorrect colors and "5.1" audi..."

==I'm Going Deep==
As it turns out, this Rhino editing "rabbit hole" goes deeper than I could have imagined. It's more than unfinished footage, incorrect colors and "5.1" audio. There are poor frame edits, mis-timed audio edits and more subtle and obscure restoration attempts that go awry. I have no choice at my end but to tally all of it, and how and whether to present it in some form for the wiki may be decided in future, with the community's input, of course. For the time being, I just wanted to mention one mistake that was misidentified here: In the MTMTE P1 page, someone pointed out that Norm McCabe's name was displayed as "Nor M McCabe" in the credits, but those were not the original credits. Some may not be aware that the Rhino DVD release actually "restored" the credits using remastered footage and newly created "text overlays" (in Eras Bold ITC font or some equivalent). Since there are credit sequences out there captured from VHS, they were used to confirm that McCabe's name was in fact spelled correctly originally. In turn, I removed the line from the aforementioned page, and clarified the note about the error on the Norm McCabe page. The credits pages on this wiki will likely be tackled next in the cause of accuracy.

More than Meets the Eye, Part 1

2024-07-22T19:38:23Z

JoseBxR: /* Animation and technical errors */ Line removed for being a Rhino DVD error, not an anim/tech one

{{episode
|series=G1toon
|ep=1
|series2=SRLFtoon
|ep2=1
|next2=More than Meets the Eye, Part 2
|series3=''[[Transformers: Generation 2 (cartoon)|Transformers: Generation 2]]''
|ep3=1
|next3=More than Meets the Eye, Part 2
|image=MTMtE Part1 Prime repair.jpg
|caption=Prime spends a few hours at a discount tanning salon.
|title="More than Meets the Eye, Part 1"
|season=1
|season ep=1
|production code=4023
|airdate=[[September 17]], [[1984]]
|written by=[[George Arthur Bloom]]
|animation studio=[[Toei Animation|Toei]]
|production company=[[Sunbow Productions]]
|continuity=[[Generation 1 cartoon continuity]]
|packaged with=[[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#Universe (2008)|Optimus Prime]]
|video=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1ujpoDlgRU
|videosite=YouTube
}}
'''In search of energy, the Autobots leave Cybertron and are pursued by the Decepticons.'''

==Synopsis==
[[File:MTMtE1 Wheeljack and Bumblebee collect energy.jpg|left|thumb|"That's not that impressive. I can transform too, y'know."]]
On [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]], many [[MYA|millions of years ago]], the [[Autobot]]s are on the verge of extinction. Eons of war with the [[Decepticon]]s, their bitter enemies, have drained the planet's once plentiful resources. Autobots [[Wheeljack (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Wheeljack]] and [[Bumblebee (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Bumblebee]] have managed to find a scant few [[Conductor|energy conductors]] and muse that what they've found won't last very long. Bumblebee loads the conductors into Wheeljack and they head back towards [[Iacon (polity)|Iacon]]. However, as they reach the bridge to home base, they run into a Decepticon patrol. Wheeljack's attempt to drive through is cut short by enemy fire, and they're soon literally surrounded by a ring of fire, thanks to the Decepticons' flame throwers. The pair manage to escape the flames and ram their way through the Decepticons, two of whom give chase. The pursuing Decepticons manage to hit Bumblebee with their lasers, and the smaller Autobot is forced to drive aboard Wheeljack. Wheeljack manages to evade the two Decepticons by heading underground and arrives at Iacon. As they enter the fortress, a nearby sensor lamp reveals itself to be [[Soundwave (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Soundwave]], who dispatches [[Laserbeak (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Laserbeak]] to do some spying. Also returning to Iacon is [[Jazz (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Jazz]], who reports to [[Prime (rank)|Autobot leader]] [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]] that he was unable to find any energy in Cybertron's lower regions. Optimus confers with Jazz, [[Prowl (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Prowl]] and [[Trailbreaker (G1)|Trailbreaker]] on the plan to leave Cybertron on a mission to search for energy elsewhere. Having heard all they need, Laserbeak and Soundwave depart.

[[File:MTMtE1 Ark and Nemesis over Earth.jpg|thumb|Starting a long, long tradition of Transformer ships crashing on Earth.]]
Inside [[Decepticon Headquarters (G1 Cybertron)|their base]], [[Decepticon leader]] [[Megatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Megatron]] plots to intercept the Autobots, and leaves his [[second-in-command|first lieutenant]] [[Shockwave (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Shockwave]] in charge of Cybertron. [[Starscream (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Starscream]] asserts the war would have been won if the Decepticons were under his leadership.

The Autobots blast off aboard [[Ark (G1)|their spaceship]], and the Decepticons give chase in their [[Nemesis (G1)|Decepticon cruiser]]. The Autobots immediately run into trouble when two large asteroids collide in front of them, resulting in a storm of rock that pelts both ships, until [[Ironhide (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ironhide]] uses the ship's weapons to clear a path. The Autobots next detect the pursuing ship, but are unable to outrun the Decepticon cruiser, which locks onto them with [[tractor beam]]s. The Autobot ship's lasers are out of power, so the Autobots are forced to instead engage the Decepticons in combat once they board. With no one at the respective helms, both ships drift into [[Earth]]'s gravity well, and despite Prime's best efforts to right the Autobot ship, both vessels spin out of control and crash. The Autobot ship embeds itself in the side of a volcano.

Four million years pass. It is the year 1984, and volcanic activity stirs the half-buried ship, awakening the computer systems aboard. [[Teletraan I]] sends out a [[Sky Spy]] satellite to reconnoiter this new world, and scans examples of terrestrial machinery in order to reformat the Transformers into new [[Alternate mode|alt modes]]. The Decepticon [[Skywarp (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Skywarp]] happens to be the one who is in the path of the repair beam, and thus is awakened first. He revives Megatron, and the other Decepticons follow. Leaving the Autobot ship, Megatron observes that much time has passed since the crash but declares their mission to find energy is unchanged. An impudent Starscream leaves a parting shot, blasting the rocks over the ship in an attempt to bury it further. However, he unwittingly knocks Optimus Prime into the repair beam and the Autobot leader is revived.

[[File:Cliffgun.JPG|thumb|left|"You see the size of that gun he fired at us? It was bigger than him!"]]
The Decepticons locate a clearing and Megatron puts Starscream in charge of converting the area for the construction of a [[Victory (G1)|new star cruiser]]. Soundwave, Starscream and [[Rumble (G1)|Rumble]] head for a nearby power station to find the needed raw materials. Meanwhile, the Autobots have all been repaired. Optimus Prime announces that they need to find out what the Decepticons are doing, and dispatches [[Hound (G1)|Hound]] and [[Cliffjumper (G1)|Cliffjumper]] to scout the area. Starscream and his team arrive at the power station, where Starscream again grouses about wanting to lead the Decepticons, and has Rumble use his pile drivers to level the plant. Some time later, Hound and Cliffjumper find the Decepticons in the middle of work on their ship. Though Cliffjumper's keen to wade in, Hound listens in as the Decepticons plan to take [[energon cube]]s back to Cybertron. Cliffjumper rashly takes a shot at Megatron, but misses, and Soundwave unleashes Laserbeak in pursuit. Though the pair split up, Laserbeak detaches a laser cannon so he can pursue both Autobots. While Cliffjumper manages to deal with the cannon, Laserbeak blasts Hound, sending him off a cliff.

[[File:MTMtE Part1 OilRig battle.jpg|thumb|Do yourself a favor, don't smoke at a Cybertronian waterpark.]]
Autobot medic [[Ratchet (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ratchet]] and [[Hauler]] come to fetch Hound. Cliffjumper apologizes for giving away their position as Hound is winched to safety. Meanwhile, Decepticons [[Thundercracker (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Thundercracker]] and [[Reflector (G1)|Reflector]] spot an Earth vehicle approaching. The two human workers find the demolished power station, but while they're puzzling over what happened to it, [[Ravage (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ravage]] attacks and frightens them away.

Hound is repaired, and reports what he overheard: that the Decepticons are on the hunt for energy. Prime has Jazz assemble a battle group to go after them and the Autobots roll out. Elsewhere Laserbeak returns to the Decepticon construction site with the news that he's found a new source of energy. The Decepticons attack an off-shore [[oil rig]], where [[Sparkplug Witwicky]] and his son [[Spike Witwicky (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Spike]] work. The humans attempt to resist, but it's futile and they end up jumping or falling overboard. The Decepticons begin filling energon cubes from the [[oil]] pipeline, but as Megatron is telling Starscream that they will need a lot more energy, the Autobots arrive to spoil their party. A battle erupts on the drilling platform until the Decepticons simply grab what they can and take off. Megatron blasts the rig's supports, tipping it into the ocean and taking the Autobots with it. Another shot ignites the oil, turning the surface of the sea into an inferno. Realizing the humans are in danger, Optimus Prime tries to save Spike and Sparkplug while the Decepticons retreat with their energon plunder.

'''[[More than Meets the Eye, Part 2|To be continued...]]'''
{{--}}

==Featured characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
*[[Wheeljack (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Wheeljack]] (1)
*[[Bumblebee (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Bumblebee]] (2)
*[[Prowl (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Prowl]] (12)
*[[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]] (13)
*[[Trailbreaker (G1)|Trailbreaker]] (14)
*[[Jazz (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Jazz]] (15)
*[[Ratchet (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ratchet]] (18)
*[[Ironhide (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ironhide]] (19)
*[[Sideswipe (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Sideswipe]] (20)
*[[Teletraan I]] (21)
*[[Cliffjumper (G1)|Cliffjumper]] (24)
*[[Hound (G1)|Hound]] (25)
*[[Hauler]] (26)
*[[Sunstreaker (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Sunstreaker]] (32)
*[[Bluestreak (G1)|Bluestreak]] (33)
*[[Huffer (G1)|Huffer]] (34)
*[[Mirage (G1)|Mirage]] (35)
*[[Brawn (G1)|Brawn]] (36)
*[[Gears (G1)|Gears]] (37)
*[[Windcharger (G1)|Windcharger]] (38)

|c2=
*[[Starscream (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Starscream]] (3)
*[[Thundercracker (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Thundercracker]] (4)
*[[Skywarp (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Skywarp]] (5)
*[[Sunstorm (G1)|Yellow Seeker]] (6)
*[[Hotlink (G1)|Purple Seeker]] (7)
*[[Bitstream (G1)|Light blue Seeker]] (8)
*[[Nacelle (G1)|Dark blue Seeker]] (9)
*[[Soundwave (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Soundwave]] (10)
*[[Laserbeak (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Laserbeak]] (11)
*[[Megatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Megatron]] (16)
*[[Shockwave (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Shockwave]] (17)
*[[Reflector (G1)|Reflector]] (22)
*[[Rumble (G1)|Rumble]] (23)
*[[Ravage (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ravage]] (27)

|c3=
*[[Joe (MTMTE)|Joe]] (28)
*[[Frank (G1)|Power plant worker]] (29)
*[[Spike Witwicky (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Spike Witwicky]] (30)
*[[Sparkplug Witwicky]] (31)
}}

==Quotes==
[[File:MTMTE1-JazzProwlPrimeTrailbreaker.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4]]
"Prime told me there'd be days like this." 
"And you didn't believe him?" 
"I do now!"
:—'''Bumblebee''' and '''Wheeljack''' under fire.

"When do we start the search mission?" 
"Soon as you're ready to launch."
:—'''Prowl''' is told to hurry up by '''Optimus Prime'''.

"Fear not, Megatron. Cybertron shall remain as you leave it."
:—'''Shockwave''', more accurate than he realizes.

"Leakin' lubricant!"
:—'''Ironhide'''

"What about materials?" 
"Use your imagination!"
:—'''Starscream''' and '''Megatron'''

"Here's something to keep you warm."
:—'''Megatron''' as he ignites the oil spill.

==Season 5==
{{note|When this episode was rebroadcast in [[The Transformers (cartoon)#Season 5|the fifth season]] of ''The Transformers'', it contained new bookending segments with original story material.}}

[[File:PrimeTakesTommyIntoSpace.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|"There's no ''air'' in space!" "But there's an Air in Space Museum!"]]

The young human [[Tommy Kennedy]], a resident of [[Autobot City (G1)|Autobot City]], needs help from [[Powermaster]] [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]]. He runs out into the middle of a barren wasteland, calling Prime's name. Prime arrives via rocket-boots and, after lifting Tommy up to his head, asks him what's the trouble. As it turns out, Tommy has a "special project" for school that's due soon and only Prime can help him. Optimus inquires what the project is about, but Tommy dodges the question, simply saying that he needs to know how the Autobots arrived on Earth. Prime concedes, "Okay Tommy, I've handled enough emergencies to know that ''some things'' just can't wait." Prime then launches into the tale of how the Autobots and the Decepticons left Cybertron, crash-landed on Earth and began their war for energy anew...

Prime continues into the next part of his story, about their first encounter with humans and whatnot, but Tommy stops him. Tommy says he's out of time and he ''really'' has to get back to Autobot City. Prime offers to give him the ride on the condition that next time they hang out, he tells him the juicy details of this "special project". Prime then blasts off into space with Tommy clinging to his shoulder (and somehow not dying horribly).

{{--}}

==Notes==
===Production information===
* Script revisions: 13th March 1984
* Returned to the US for telecine: 27th August 1984
* Official Sunbow Productions synopsis:
:''In search of the precious energy needed to rebuild their war torn planet Cybertron - the Autobots venture forth into outer space. But the evil Decepticons attack them and the two robot armies crash on Earth.''
:''Four million years later, the Autobots and Decepticons are reactivated and the battle between the forces of good and evil rages anew. Megatron, the brutal leader of the Decepticons, vows to conquer the Universe. And only the Autobots have a chance of stopping him. Megatron's first step: to plunder the Earth's sources of energy.''
:''The Decepticons capture an offshore oil rig, convert the oil into Energon cubes and destroy the rig, leaving the workers and their Autobot rescuers trapped in the burning wreckage.''
:''Then the evil robots create a tremendous tidal wave which threatens to destroy a power plant and flood an entire valley...''
:''And Megatron discovers the Ruby Crystals of Burma - the ultimate power source that will enable him to conquer the universe...''
:''In a race against time, the Autobots track the Decepticons to the Crystal Mines of Burma, but their dangerous mission backfires and Optimus Prime must risk his very existence in a desperate space battle as the Decepticons rocket back to Cybertron with enough energy to rule the universe forever.''<ref>This is the only time an official Sunbow Productions synopsis would cover an entire miniseries instead of the individual episodes.</ref>

===Deleted scenes===
Added Scenes
* Shockwave's appearance was added in script revisions during March 1984, under the early name of Flash Beam. Presumably as a reaction to the toy line's retail success at Toyfair 1984 the month before, as Hasbro would have given the green light to plans for the toyline's second year.

Changed Scenes
* After the montage at the start of Act II, after the volcanic eruption “Four Million Years Later”. We cut to “Several Days Later” when the lava from the eruption has dried and hardened. Inside the ship, Teletraan I comes back online. It uses an Electron Gun that emerges from the side of the ship to blast through the rock. Its beam punching through the volcano wall and bouncing off several rocks in the area to form a “satellite dish” of energy. Through this energy, Teletraan receives data on Earth, displayed on its monitor. It then uses this data to repair the wrecked occupants of the ship, with Soundwave the first to be revived. This sequence was changed during storyboard revisions to have Teletraan I send out manual Sky Spies to collect data for Earth modes, rebuilding those placed in its repair beam into those new modes.
* Throughout the miniseries, wherever possible to do so without affecting the plot, instances of the Autobots flying are replaced by them driving or are cut entirely.
* Some scale issues are present, likely due to using toys for reference. The script describes Soundwave as being the size of Andre The Giant, while Megatron does not mass-shift when transforming to gun mode, nor is he wielded by other Decepticons. Instead he transforms into a giant gun mode and remains in mid-air while firing (similar to the show's intro).

Deleted Scenes
* The Decepticon “welcoming committee” is a blockade at one end of a bridge. Wheeljack deploys his deflector shields and he and Bumblebee crash through the barriers, with several generic Decepticons in pursuit. The two get halfway across the bridge before they see another blockade waiting for them at the other end. Wheeljack swerves to a halt as the two Autobots are now caught in crossfire.
* As Wheeljack brings the damaged Bumblebee into Iacon, Soundwave is skulking in the shadows outside. We get many establishing shots of the Ark being constructed. Ratchet works on Bumblebee in the med bay, who is praised for his energy-finding efforts by Optimus Prime.
* After Soundwave recalls Laserbeak and takes off, we cut to a “futuristic” airfield with the Decepticon starship in the distance, resting at a launch tower. A plane-mode Soundwave lands and transforms. Like his earlier lamppost mode, this was an example of George Arthur Bloom's idea that the Transformers could assume any form for disguise, which would be largely eliminated during script revisions to maintain [[Show-accuracy|toy-accuracy]].
* General scenes aboard the Ark include Trailbreaker and Prime consulting on energy sources. Ironhide complaining to Mirage about wanting to see action. Mirage in turn reminiscing about Cybertron before the war.
* Prowl reports to Prime that they're possibly being followed. Prime orders “release the Viewtrex!”. A metallic sensor rod emerges from the ship and scans space. Meanwhile, aboard the Decepticon ship, Megatron orders Soundwave to “execute cover phase”. Much to Starscream's irritation, who suggests blowing up the Autobots instead. Megatron shoots down that idea “If Optimus Prime knows of an energy source, let him lead us to it.”, thus explaining why Megatron didn't take Starscream's suggestion and just end them right there when they were all in one place. “Cover phase” is a form of cloaking device, the Decepticon ship disappearing both onscreen and on the Autobots’ monitors.
* Rumble uses his piledriver arms at the base of a mountain that supports one end of a railroad trestle. A freight train above is crossing as the trestle begins to fall apart, its cars plunging into the water while the engine makes it to safety. The other Decepticons collect the steel girders of the wrecked trestle, Starscream noting “I’m glad you’re on our side, Rumble!”
* While Hound and Cliffjumper are spying on the Decepticon base, Skywarp and Thundercracker are grumbling about doing grunt work. Megatron appears before them and berates Skywarp. When Thundercracker attempts to apologise, Megatron hits him in the head with such force that he is sent flying across the construction site. Landing in a heap and having to twist his own head back into place.
* As Thundercracker reports back to base about the approaching humans, Skywarp randomly finds a frisbee (“some Earth gadget”). Throwing it to a disinterested Starscream, who throws it back, only for it to be blasted out of mid-air by Megatron. Demanding Starscream get to work, who then chafes at being given orders. This argument is interrupted by Thundercracker's transmission reaching Soundwave.
* Discussing Hound's report, Prowl suggests warning humanity about the Decepticons, to which Jazz replies “They’d never believe us, Prowl.”. Optimus Prime agrees, stating “...and it’s up to us. We brought them here.”
* The Autobot “battle unit” is brought to a halt by Prime, who sees on his “vista scope” the Decepticons flying to the oil rig. The Autobots transform and take to the skies in pursuit.
* The final major scene of the episode sees Brawn and Huffer atop the last intact derrick on the burning oil rig, carrying the rig's large hose. Ignoring Huffer's complaints that it won't work, Brawn calls down to Windcharger to turn the water on. Their firefighting efforts aren't enough, even with the water supply turned all the way up. The derrick collapses and tips into the sea. Brawn jumps free, but Huffer lands with the Derrick and is entangled in the metal girders. Brawn rushes over to free him, while a short distance away, Prime is still trying to free Spike and Sparkplug with the ring of fire coming ever closer.

===Continuity notes===
* Wheeljack says there isn't enough energy in the conductors they find to "last a [[Units of time|quartrex]]". Bumblebee and Wheeljack were "one [[Units of length|megamile]]" from the bridge to Iacon. Prowl provides a report from the Autobot ship's "[[Viewtrex]]".
* Along with the [[The Transformers (Marvel comic)|first issue of the Marvel comic]] (of which this series is ''technically'' an adaptation), this episode establishes several iconic aspects of the cartoon and the entire [[Transformers brand]]. The planet Cybertron and its city Iacon both appear in many other media and continuities. The crash of the Ark and the four-million-year slumber of its inhabitants likewise recur in several other versions of the Generation 1 story.
* The orange Seeker from the "welcoming committee", visible for all of about two seconds, was [[Retcon|retroactively established]] to be the neo-G1 character [[Sunstorm (G1)|Sunstorm]]. Other characters in the same shot were later named [[Hotlink (G1)|Hotlink]] (the purple Seeker with the flamethrower), [[Bitstream (G1)|Bitstream]] (the blue Seeker behind him holding his weapon like a rifle), and [[Nacelle (G1)|Nacelle]] (the dark blue Seeker barely visible between Sunstorm and Hotlink).
[[File:Cybertronlaserbeak.jpg|thumb|Tommy! How's the peeping?]]
* We get a look at Cybertronian alternate modes for Bumblebee, Wheeljack, Skywarp, Thundercracker, Jazz, and Soundwave. Meanwhile, Laserbeak is given a Cybertronian ''robot'' mode. Soundwave's toy can totally be configured into that lamp-post mode.
*Trailbreaker's presence alongside Jazz and Prowl on Cybertron is just about the ''only'' indication of his "defense strategist" [[function]] in the cartoon.
*Three episodes from now, we will see that Shockwave was true to his word, and Cybertron has not changed one iota in four million years.
*The Decepticon vessel is last seen spiraling out of control, unpiloted, toward Earth. It will be rediscovered in the Season 2 episode "[[Microbots]]". The unnamed ship would finally be given a title almost 15 years later, when it was referred to as the ''[[Nemesis (G1)|Nemesis]]'' in the [[Beast Wars: Transformers (cartoon)|''Beast Wars'']] episode "[[Nemesis Part 1]]".
*The events of the ''[[Beast Wars: Transformers (cartoon)|Beast Wars]]'' cartoon take place during the 4 million years in which the Autobots and Decepticons lie dormant in the wreckage of the Ark... a time frame covered by about 5 seconds of footage in this episode.
[[File:Sky Spy.jpg|thumb]]
*As the satellite-like probe (later dubbed a [[Sky Spy]]) leaves the Ark, we see a city skyline in the distance. While the cartoon's animation could never make up its mind about what was around the crashed ship (oceanside cliffs? desert? forests and rivers?), one might take this city to be [[Central City (Earth)|Central City]], later established to have jurisdiction over the land where the Autobot ship rests.
[[File:MTME1 Reflector camera.jpg|thumb|Yep, pretty clearly an SLR.]]
[[File:Ratchetg1cartoon.jpg|thumb|Repair bay optional.]]
*Gadgets and powers:
**Wheeljack raises deflector shields<ref>Specifically named in deleted dialogue.</ref> in vehicle mode to block the Decepticon laser-blasts.
**Wheeljack deploys a pair of tiny spinning blades from his front bumper, which lets him... drive through fire? Per the original script, it was supposed to be a metal battering ram with "spinning propeller-like blades" on the end of it.
**Laserbeak spies with a pair of cylindrical doodads that come out of the side of his head.
**Rumble demonstrates his earth-quake-making power, which consists of banging the ground with a couple of big pile drivers that replace his arms. This will become one of the cartoon's most frequently-seen special powers, to the point that it eventually would carry over to the Marvel comics as well. (This power also seems to exclude Rumble himself from its effects, as the ground under him never cracks open.)
**Hound pops out a little wrist radar dish that lets him hear what the Decepticons are saying from some distance away.
**Soundwave can display graphics—the space cruiser, in this case—on his chest door.
**Cliffjumper somehow stores on his person a [[Cliffjumper's bazooka|bazooka]] that's as big as he is. We don't want to know how he does this. Although it does look like it's collapsible.
**Cliffjumper also can deploy a gun from the rear of vehicle mode that fires his signature [[glass gas]].
**Laserbeak's cannons are shown to be able to disconnect from him, fly on their own and target Autobots independently. Although an ability actively described in his ''[[The Transformers Universe (Marvel)|Universe]]'' profile, this would be the only time Laserbeak would employ his weapons this way.
**Ratchet is shown splitting into his robot form and his repair bay; however, the repair bay is never seen again.
**Reflector, being a super-advanced space robot, can take a photograph and instantly spit out a paper print of the resulting image. Instant photographs?! It must be THE FUTURE!
**Starscream "activates the <s>noal</s> null ray", which freezes the device it's aimed at.
[[File:Hauler01-sm.jpg|thumb|Frank Lloyd ''Wrong''.]]
*A [[Grapple (G1)|Grapple]]-like crane named [[Hauler]] is seen with Cliffjumper, recovering Hound; he's never seen again, however. Fans have speculated that this was to be an earlier release of Grapple's toy, aborted for reasons unknown.
*[[Energon cube]]s make their first appearance here. They have to be compressed before they convert the fuel they have been filled with into energon, at which point they glow a sort of yellowish-white iridescent-y rainbow-y sort of color. The "compressing a stack" aspect of the cubes was quickly done away with after the pilot mini-series, but the rainbow-glow would stick around for a little while before being phased out in favor of a pink-purple coloration that became the standard representation of energon cubes down through ''Transformers'' history.
*Despite being known for the command "Autobots, transform!", Optimus Prime doesn't actually issue it until two episodes later, in [[More than Meets the Eye, Part 3|part 3]]. Megatron beats him to it with the less-common counterpart "Decepticons, transform!" command to his troops on the oil-rig. They, however, do not actually transform - just Megatron himself.

===Real-world references===
*As with the corresponding [[The Transformers (issue)|first issue of the Marvel comic]], the here-unnamed [[Mount St. Hilary|volcano]] is certainly inspired by the 1980 eruption of Mount St. Helens.
*''The Transformers'' made heavy use of the sound effects library that sprung out of the movie ''[[Star Wars (franchise)|Star Wars]]''. Fans have a tendency to make tiresome shocked exclamations that Laserbeak sounds like a [[TIE Fighter]]; it is therefore instructive to catalog these sound effects, which are used ''far'' more extensively than just a couple of TIE engine roars. About half a dozen sound effects tend to appear in nearly every episode, and at least a dozen total are known to have been used on ''The Transformers''. In this episode:
**The sound of the [[Death Star]] firing to destroy Alderaan, and Alderaan's subsequent explosion, is used as Skywarp and Thundercracker strafe Bumblebee and Wheeljack, and again as they abandon their pursuit.
**The sound of the Seeker training sphere aboard the ''[[Millennium Falcon]]'', along with [[Luke Skywalker|Luke]]'s [[lightsaber]] humming and igniting, is used as Soundwave begins making energon cubes.
*We also get the lesser-used ''[[Star Trek]]'' sliding door sound effect as Soundwave sends Laserbeak after Hound and Cliffjumper.
*There are also hints of the Sonic Screwdriver sound effect from ''[[Doctor Who]]'', most notably Wheeljack opening and closing his rear door.

===Animation and technical errors===
*In the very first shot, stars are shown passing in front of Cybertron.
*Soundwave's mouthplate doesn't move during his "Autobots are set to launch" line.
[[File:Sunstorm Cartoon.jpg|thumb|Then again, Thundercracker has ''two'' wings.]]
*The Decepticon "welcoming committee" is a bit confusing:
**The initial shot shows [[Starscream (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Starscream]], [[Skywarp (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Skywarp]], and [[Thundercracker (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Thundercracker]]. None of these characters were in this scene in the original script, which just credited the characters as "Decepticons"; Starscream, in particular, is shown to be at Decepticon headquarters in a minute, and the voice that comes out of his mouth ("Autobots! Stop them!") is intended for a generic character and is provided by [[Dan Gilvezan]] instead of [[Chris Latta]].
**All three are absent from the second shot, which shows four new characters: a purple one with a flamethrower, a golden-yellow one, a rich blue one, and a dark navy one.
**The third shot, as Wheeljack bears down on the group, shows a total of five Seekers, all very small figures with block coloring, one purple, one black, and the other three grey. In the very next shot, Wheeljack is shown barrelling through Starscream, Skywarp, and Thundercracker again.
**The final shot of the group sees Thundercracker and Skywarp transforming to pursue them. Though originally scripted only to be generic Decepticons, the pair subsequently have lines in what will become recognizable as their normal voices ("They've gone underground, we'll never catch 'em now!"/"We'd better report back to Megatron," provided by [[John Stephenson]] and [[Frank Welker]] respectively), indicating the script was reworked with the genuine intention of placing the two characters in the scene.
**Less explicable, though, is the voice heard declaring "After them!" just before Skywarp and Thundercracker take off. No speaker is obvious (nobody's mouth is seen moving on-screen) and the line was not in the original teleplay for the episode. Presumably, it was meant to be another generic Decepticon from the group ordering the two into action, but as the line is provided by Frank Welker, the possibility exists that it's supposed to be Skywarp speaking. If so, though, the voice is way off from his normal one, sounding almost exactly like Megatron.
*Bumblebee steps out of Wheeljack and immediately fires a shot in the completely opposite direction from their attackers. Was he testing his gun??
*Bumblebee is repeatedly shown to be a hovercar... yet somehow he's got wheels and an axle when the Seekers manage to hit him.
*Bumblebee is repeatedly shown to be ''wider'' than Wheeljack in [[alternate mode|vehicle mode]], yet he has no trouble driving right into Wheeljack's cargo compartment. He ''keeps'' driving in until he's completely out of sight, even though we can see at least half of the compartment.
*As Wheeljack opens his cargo compartment to let Bumblebee in, the energy conductors clip through his vehicle mode.
*Coloring errors:
**As Megatron gives Shockwave his orders, Starscream is missing his canopy lines, and Soundwave's eject button is blue, while his backpack is white.[[File:MTMTEProwlstreak.jpg|thumb|TakaraTomy later used this shot as a justification for giving ''Masterpiece'' Prowl his shoulder cannons.]]
**Bluestreak is colored like Prowl as the Autobots stumble around in the wake of the asteroid collision; Trailbreaker, meanwhile, has one white and one gray hand.
**Starscream has a red "collar" around his neck as he prepares the tractor beam.
**When the Autobots and Decepticons fight aboard the ''Ark'', there are two Starscreams - one fighting Prowl, the other fighting Ironhide.
**As Starscream fires on the Autobot ship, the top segment of his canopy is red instead of gray in some frames.
**As the gathered Decepticons gaze at the desert from atop the volcano, Skywarp's arm cannon is colored teal.
**Part of Megatron's fusion cannon is white as he says "we'll set up here".
**Soundwave's eject button is blue instead of white as Megatron orders him to plan the new space cruiser.
**After landing at the power plant, Soundwave's eject button is blue, instead of... y'know what? Let's just say the colorists screwed up this little detail ''all the freaking time'', and leave it at that.
**As Starscream talks about his plans with Soundwave and Rumble standing behind him, the tip of Soundwave's shoulder cannon is colored entirely black.
**When Optimus Prime assigns Hound his mission, the establishing shot has Cliffjumper with Bumblebee's yellow colors.
**In the long shot of the Decepticons building their base, Soundwave appears in Sideswipe's colors. The Seekers also appear to have the wrong colors in this shot - the one standing behind Megatron is colored as Skywarp and the one opposite him is colored as Starscream, but in the next shot they become Starscream and Thundercracker respectively.
**Cliffjumper's mirror housings are white instead of red as he delivers his "moonbeam" line.
**Ratchet's Autobot symbol is gray before he jumps off the cliff.
**Prime's running light housings are white instead of red as he orders Jazz to organize a battle unit.
**In the pan across the battle unit, Sideswipe's helm is red instead of black, and the top of Trailbreaker's chest is white instead of black.
**The center segment of Megatron's fusion cannon is white as the wrenches & etc. bounce off of him.
**Soundwave's cheekguards are blue instead of white as he starts making energon cubes.
*The retracting segments of Iacon's dome appear to come out of solid, unbroken metal. The interior shot of the bridge also shows the segments retracting incorrectly. Since the ship is upright at a 90-degree angle, the retracting segments should go from camera-right to camera-left, down the length of the ship.
*Sideswipe's missing his shoulder launcher as he mans an Ark console.
[[File:ArkCartoon1.jpg|thumb|If it's supposed to be transparent, then it probably shouldn't be blocking out the scenery behind it.]]
*The Ark's exhaust comes from ''behind'' the thruster ports.
*The Decepticon insignia on the Nemesis is missing its "eyes" as the Ark blasts off.
*Presumably, an impact is supposed to be knocking Jazz out of the pilot's seat; what the animation actually shows, however, is Prime saying "Jazz!", to which Jazz responds by spontaneously flying out of his seat.
*Immediately after a shot of Optimus Prime rallying his troops to prepare to repulse Decepticon boarders ("Prepare for battle!"), the same animation is re-used, but this time with Megatron's voice urging his troops to "Attack! Attack!" When the episode was re-done for the ''[[Transformers: Generation 2 (cartoon)|Generation 2]]'' series, this scene was amended by placing a shot of Megatron sitting on this throne from earlier in the episode over the image, shouting the command. (In the same shot, Prowl's eye is missing and the cameraman's hand can be seen for a few frames during the second instance, which ''was'' fixed for the Rhino DVD release)
*A shot of Soundwave being kicked out of frame by Ironhide is immediately followed by Soundwave sparring with Ratchet.
*After Ratchet is thrown into the console, Optimus Prime and Megatron enter the frame, struggling with each other. Megatron is missing his fusion cannon in this shot, but it reappears when the angle changes to show them grappling as Prime asks for a status report.
*Ratchet is shown being thrown by Soundwave, but after Optimus Prime asks for a status report, Ratchet is seen fighting with Thundercracker on the other side of the room.
*When Soundwave tosses Ratchet into a console aboard the Ark, the Autobot Medic is sporting a Decepticon symbol in the center of his chest windshield, most likely the result of the animator carrying over Soundwave's design.
*As the above shot pans across the bridge to the right, we see Soundwave has teleported from one side of the bridge to the other, slumped against a console.
*In the pan shot on the Ark when the Transformers find out they're going to crash, there are TWO Soundwaves and TWO Starscreams.
*As the Ark rocks and sends the combatants tumbling, the left arm of the second Soundwave turns into an extended smear of gray paint for a couple of frames.
*The voice that reports about g-forces is Prowl's, but he's struggling with Starscream and doesn't seem to have time to read a console or make a report or anything. Although it's hard to tell due to the ship shaking, Jazz's mouth seems to be moving, and he ''does'' seem to be looking at machinery.
*Quite a few generic robots are mixed in among the identifiable inert Transformers in the crashed ship, including [[Hauler]] and a yellow version of Jazz.
*The land around the volcano changes frequently between shots. Sometimes it's rocky desert; other times it's got forests and a river, sometimes both at once. This trend would continue throughout the whole series.
*When Megatron orders Skywarp to revive the other Decepticons, his voice is missing the metallic echo usually applied to it.
*Megatron is missing his barrel as he speaks to his newly revived troops. In a close-up, he has a "five o'clock shadow", as the central segment of his face is a darker shade than the rest of it.
[[File:Mtmte1 prepare the energon cubes.jpg|thumb]]
*Starscream has no transformation sound as he lands at the power plant.
*Hound's voice carries a soundproof-room echo as he comments on how different Earth is.
*Hound says that he got shot in the drive train, but Laserbeak shot him topside. Did the shot go straight through him??
*Reflector's three component robots are standing shoulder-to-shoulder as they turn to look at the truck, but are standing in a line in the next shot.
*After Thundercracker informs Soundwave about the approaching vehicle, there's a [[scene transition]]. The final frame of the scene transition is faded into an image of Sparkplug and Wheeljack working on Optimus Prime from "Divide and Conquer".
*In the Autobot roll call scene, when Jazz calls Prowl's name, Cliffjumper transforms as well. Ratchet is shown in vehicle mode, even though Jazz never called his name. Finally, near the end, Optimus Prime's headlights are red instead of white, but in the next scene this is corrected.
*Rumble isn't a big guy, but he should at ''least'' be a few feet taller than a human. He's shown the same height as Sparkplug.
*Starscream is missing his wing insignia as Megatron returns to his robot form.
*Ironhide and Starscream are shown sparring with poles, while Prowl and Thundercracker have a shootout from cover. In the very next shot, Ironhide is taking on Skywarp and Thundercracker, while Starscream is now busy with Huffer and Gears, and Prowl is grappling with a Reflector. In the shot after that, Prowl is suddenly free from Reflector and charging toward Skywarp.
*A red robot of indeterminate character model is shown retreating with the Decepticons. It looks a bit like an upside-down Sideswipe.
*When Rumble knocks Spike into the water, Sparkplug yells "Pike!", due to an editing error in the creation of the dialog track. (The original 'unslugged' cassette from the recording session has "Spike!")
*Frank Welker is not listed among the voice actors in the credits sequence. This error would be repeated in the other two parts of the miniseries as well.

===Continuity errors===
[[File:MTMtE Part1 Cybertron.jpg|thumb|Pale silver dot]]
*Later episodes will go to some length to establish that Cybertron is outside of our galaxy. There's even some implication that it's not inside ''any'' galaxy, but that unlikely notion is put to the lie by the very first shots of this episode, which show its surface illuminated by an unseen sun, and the space around it filled with stars.
*Whether for reasons of cost (unlikely considering how much effort was expended on this episode's artwork) or to avoid confusing the kiddies, hardly any of the Transformers were designed to have Cybertronian [[robot mode]]s (Laserbeak is the sole exception). Thus we get the strange phenomena of, for example, Jazz having a Porsche 911 bumper on his chest, four million years before Porsches were invented. This also leads to some strange transformations, with guys like Bumblebee and Wheeljack not having a single part from their vehicle forms visible in their robot modes.
*Soundwave is in robot mode outside of Iacon, not transforming back to lamppost mode until Jazz is practically on top of him. How could Jazz have failed to notice the big blue Decepticon right in front of him?
[[File:Shockwave Hands.jpg|thumb|''My honey my baby Don't put Shockwave upon no shelf She said don't gimme no lines And keep your hands... hand... whatever... to yourself!'']]
*During the scene in [[Decepticon Headquarters (G1 Cybertron)|Decepticon Headquarters]], Shockwave is consistently drawn with two hands. This may not be an error ''per se'', as he shows up a couple of other times with two hands, and plenty of characters can retract their hands and replace them with various gadgets and weapons. Not to mention that the 4 million year gap between this episode and his next appearance (when his left hand is replaced with a laser cannon) leaves plenty of time for him to have lost and subsequently replaced the hand offscreen. However, this still goes against his toy design and his established character model.
*Two asteroids in deep space just show up out of nowhere and collide? Right by the passing ship? The cosmic improbability beggars the imagination.
*Oddly enough, nobody opens fire during the scuffle when the Decepticons board the Ark... not even Megatron.
*The Transformers' interplanetary cruise is ''incredibly'' short. At no point do they engage any kind of faster-than-light drive, yet somehow they go from Cybertron to Earth in what seems to be a matter of minutes. The only possible gap that might account for this is the scene cut between the Decepticon launch and the asteroid collision.
*The animation would have us believe that the Autobot spacecraft has just been sticking out of the side of this active volcano for ages, without anybody noticing. The intended gist might have been that the eruption uncovered it, but the animation doesn't show it.
*Cliffjumper somehow stores on his person a [[Cliffjumper's bazooka|cannon]] that's as big as he is.
*Okay, maybe it's not an actual error. But considering how many ordinary Transformers are shown to have enhanced visual abilities (Hot Rod, Rumble, Arcee, etc.) it seems a tad ridiculous that Thundercracker needs to use Reflector's camera mode to zoom in a little bit on the approaching truck. It's ''insanely'' ridiculous that Reflector produces Polaroid prints. He's not even that kind of camera! (More to the point, he should just be able to see what's visible through his own viewfinder.)
*While he is getting repaired by Ratchet, Hound refers to an Energon cube as "some kind of cube", implying that the Autobots don't know what Energon cubes are. The inference that energon cubes are a Decepticon invention holds true for almost the entirety of the pre-movie cartoon, during which time they are never used by the Autobots (something that is even made a plot point in "[[Traitor (episode)|Traitor]]"). We say "almost" because of a contradictory flashback in "[[War Dawn (episode)|War Dawn]]" that shows what appear to be energon cubes being used by Autobots nine million years in the past. By the time of the movie, the Autobots are shown to have begun using the cubes, and continue to do so throughout the third season. It's possible that Hound is a younger Autobot and was not created until after Autobots stopped using Energon cubes. Optimus would know what they are, since he was there back then in "War Dawn".
*During Jazz's roll-call of the Autobots, he neglects to call out Cliffjumper's name. The little red guy transforms anyway.
*The large cast frequently gave the animators trouble in remembering which secondary characters should or should not be present, especially concerning the Autobots. Thus, we frequently must catalog appearing/disappearing Autobots:
**Jazz's battle group consists of Prowl, Cliffjumper, Trailbreaker, Wheeljack, Mirage, Sunstreaker, Sideswipe, and Ironhide. Even before they've left headquarters, the problems start, as Ironhide disappears and Ratchet takes his place. Ratchet is still with the group when they arrive.
**Bluestreak joins the group as they fly toward the oil rig.
**Huffer and Brawn are with them as they land on the platform.
**Gears is visible in a wide shot of the battle.
*In what ''universe'' is it legal for a fourteen-year-old American kid to be working on an oil rig, even ''with'' his father? The original script offers an unexpected answer for this: Spike was SUPPOSED to be seventeen! While still not meeting real-life legal requirements (you have to be 18 to work on an oil rig), it's at least a ''little'' better. This intended info about Spike's age was either unnoticed or ignored by the writer(s) who put together the show's subsequent story bible, which declared Spike to be fourteen—a fact that worked its way into "[[A Plague of Insecticons]]", where Spike states he isn't old enough to drive yet.
[[File:MTMtE1 spare seeker.jpg|thumb|right]]
*Until the oil platform attack, the episode has consistently portrayed the Decepticon forces as Megatron, Soundwave, 3 tapes, 3 jets, and 3 Reflectors. Things start to fall apart here, as a purple jet is shown diving alongside Thundercracker. It gets ''much'' worse in the following episodes.
*''The Transformers'' had a tendency to frequently exaggerate the capabilities of humans to survive being dropped, punched, swatted, hit, etc. As a main protagonist, Spike Witwicky was especially susceptible to this treatment; thus we catalog the adventures of ''Superhuman Spike!'':
**Spike punches Rumble in the back without breaking or even seeming to hurt his fist.
**Spike survives being bashed aside by Rumble's metal fist without even bruising a rib.
*When Starscream fires his [[null-ray]], ice appears on the machinery that the ray hits. However, a null ray only stops the flow of electricity; it doesn't cause freezing. (Megatron prompts him with the strange command to "activate the null ray", as if it's some external piece of equipment.)
*Flying Autobots:
**In this and the following two episodes, the Autobots are all shown flying just as easily as the Decepticons. Once the show went into full production, this ability mostly disappeared, with occasional exceptions due to special abilities (Wheeljack, Sideswipe, the Dinobots), and some [[Roll for It|scripting]], [[Attack of the Autobots (episode)|animation]] and [[The Master Builders (episode)|sound]] [[Fire on the Mountain (episode)|effect]] screw-ups. The change was, in part, to help distinguish the two forces (and perhaps because it doesn't make sense for the Autobots to drive places if they can just fly there instead).

===Trivia===
*Shockwave's appearance hints that Hasbro was already planning for expansion of the toyline. His toy was not among the initial 28 characters advertised by the 1984 Transformers catalog, yet there he is, making a short appearance that obviously sets up the possibility of future appearances. His toy would be one of the very first 1985 toys to see release, and his character would return in the very first post-pilot episode.
[[File:Cartoon Cybertron Marvel Iacon case 1.jpg|upright=1.95|thumb]]
*While Ironhide exclaiming "leakin' lubricant!" was in the original script, him ''physically'' leaking lubricant was not called for, suggesting the storyboard artist was unaware that Ironhide was merely using a catchphase from his character bio.
*The episode ends with a preview of "Part 2". While other multi-part Transformers episodes generally refer to the episode by its title ("Next time, on ''The Transformers'': 'The Ultimate Doom'"), this preview uses the series title, ''The Transformers'', as "More Than Meets the Eye" is a retroactive name for the three-part episode, which began as a mini-series before becoming a regular program.
*Many later episodes would mine this one for recycled footage, particularly the line up of transforming Autobots near the end. Transformation sequences (with and without new backgrounds) from this episode appear in "[[Heavy Metal War]]", "[[Blaster Blues]]", and others. Optimus Prime's third-act transformation sequence from this episode was revised and improved for "[[Transport to Oblivion (episode)|Transport to Oblivion]]", and the revision was used in ''dozens'' of episodes thereafter.
*Imagery of Cybertron from this episode was used to depict Iacon in the [[The Transformers (Marvel comic)|Marvel story]] "[[And There Shall Come...a Leader!]]". Several buildings are clearly taken from the cartoon, and the most precious comparison has to be the tunnel entrance used by Wheeljack and Bumblebee to get energy conductors to the cartoon's dome-shaped Autobot headquarters, which is exactly the same as the one [[Fusion (Marvel)|Fusion]] and [[Bluestreak (G1)|Bluestreak]] used to get shatter bombs to the [[Great Dome]]. The only difference is that the next piece of road for Fusion and Bluestreak is the same road Wheeljack and Bumblebee drove over before entering the tunnel.
[[File:G2DoubleTargetmasters.jpg|upright=1.95|thumb|The new RCA Colortrak, with Commercial-in-Commercial feature!]]
*The mid-80s [[Family Home Entertainment]] VHS release of "More Than Meets the Eye" was granted the {{w|Film Advisory Board}} Award of Excellence, proudly displayed on the video box cover above. However, this particular "award" does not reflect the ''quality'' of any work submitted, but rather that the work is "family-friendly". Cheeky, that.
*The three parter was released on video in the United Kingdom in 1986 under the title "Arrival from Cybertron".
*Footage from the [[commercial]] featuring the Autobot [[Targetmaster (technology)|Double Targetmaster]] trio was spliced into the ''[[Transformers: Generation 2 (cartoon)|Generation 2]]'' version of this episode by way of the [[Cybernet Space Cube]]. Outside of this, they never actually appeared in the cartoon.
*Footage from this episode was used to represent a historical video in "[[Transform and Roll Out]]", the opening movie for ''[[Transformers Animated (cartoon)|Transformers Animated]]''.
*In 2016, "Transformers At The Moon" released onto YouTube<ref>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwOQhJ_UA5E</ref> a collection of audio clips from the original Sunbow Productions "unslugged" cassette tapes and included many scenes deleted from the final show.
** Also on this tape is what [[Wally Burr]] terms "Body English", which consists of various Autobots and Decepticons grunting and groaning during the fight on the oil platform; "Body English" was recorded for Optimus Prime, Megatron, Starscream, Wheeljack, Reflector, all of the Decepticon troops, and the workers
{{--}}

===Foreign localization===
'''French'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Plein la vue - Partie 1'''" ("Show off - Part 1")
:*''Original airdate (France):'' [[June 1]], [[1985]]
:*''Original airdate (Canada):'' [[March 30]], [[1985]]
::*Concerning the European French dub:
:::*When transforming back as [[Wheeljack (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Wheeljack]] arrives, [[Soundwave (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Soundwave]] does not say anything. In the original version, he warns [[Laserbeak (G1)|Laserbeak]].
:::*For some reason, the dialog between [[Thundercracker (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Thundercracker]] and Soundwave is left in English. ("Thundercracker to Soundwave, Thundercracker to Soundwave!" - "Proceed, Thundercracker.")
:::*This is the first episode of a long series in which various Transformers names are replaced by additional dialogue to avoid pronouncing the rather difficult English names ("Move!", "We have no choice!", "Come on!", or Soundwave saying "Warning!" every time he ejects a cassette). Some other names are distorted (Irok, Soundax, Balbee...).

'''German'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Im Weltraum verschollen'''" (''Generation 2'', "Lost in Space")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[April 30]], [[1994]]

'''Italian'''
:*''Title (dub 1):'' "'''Fuga da Cybertron'''" ("Escape from Cybertron")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?
::*Hauler is not named, so it looks like he is actually Grapple.
::*Reflector is called "Reflector'''s'''".
::*When Megatron orders Soundwave to release Ravage, in this dub he instead orders Ravage to attack, despite the latter being inside Soundwave.
::*When Jazz calls the Autobots by name, he says nothing when he calls Sunstreaker in English, and then calls his name when he should instead call Sideswipe. The latter in not mentioned at all.
::*In the next episode preview, Sherman Dam is called by its English name, despite being translated as ''diga di Sherman'' in the episode itself.

:*''Title (dub 2):'' "'''Molto più di quel che appare - Prima parte'''" ("Much More than What Appears - First Part")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?
::*Hauler is renamed "Grapple" in order to retcon them as the same character.
::*When Rumble is ejected for the first time, Soundwave [[FIRRIB|calls him Frenzy]].

'''Japanese'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Chikyū e no Michi'''" (地球への道, "The Road to Earth")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[July 6]], [[1985]]
::*When [[Hotlink (G1)|the Seeker]] fires the ring of flame around [[Bumblebee (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Bumblebee]] and [[Wheeljack (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Wheeljack]] from his flame-thrower, he shouts out the name of his "special attack" in traditional anime-style. It was called the "Fire Attack", by the way.
::*'''Cut:''' Immediately after [[Skywarp (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Skywarp]] says, "Megatron, my leader, we are alive again", a few seconds of the close-up of him and [[Megatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Megatron]] staring at each other and the fade away into the next scene is cut. Megatron's line, "Quickly, we must revive the other Decepticons", followed by him carrying and dropping [[Reflector (G1)|Reflector]], was also cut. The sequence resumes right after Megatron sets Reflector down next to [[Soundwave (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Soundwave]].
::*"[[Hauler]]" is not referred to by name in this version and most Japanese fans just presumed him to have been [[Grapple (G1)|Grapple]]. Most Japanese fans, [[Hirofumi Ichikawa|but not all]].

'''Mandarin'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Dìyī Tiān'''" (第一天, "The First Day")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?

'''Brazilian Portuguese'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Mais do Que Os Olhos Veem, Parte 1'''" ("More than Meets the Eye, Part 1")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?
::*This episode did not air in the 1980s and was first released on DVD with a different dub from the rest of the show.

'''Russian'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Ne vsjo tak prosto (Chast' 1)'''" (Не всё так просто (Часть 1), "Not All Is So Simple (Part 1)")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?

'''Serbian'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Više nego što se vidi prvi deo'''" (''Generation 2'', Више него што се види први део, "More than Meets the Eye Part 1"), "'''Sile zla prvi deo'''" (''Generation 2'', Силе зла први део, "Forces of Evil Part 1")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?

===Toys inspired by this episode===
[[File:G1toy-SunstormeHobby.jpg|thumb|upright=0.8|right|WHAT HAVE WE DONE]]
*'''''[[The Transformers: Collector's Edition|Collector's Edition]]'' 89 [[Sunstorm (G1)#Collector's Edition|Sunstorm]] ([[TakaraTomy|Takara]], 2003/2009)'''
:An [[e-HOBBY]] [[exclusive]] redeco of the original ''[[The Transformers (toyline)|Generation 1]]'' [[Starscream (G1)/toys#Generation 1|Starscream]] toy, representing the yellow [[generic]] [[Seeker (body-type)|Seeker]] seen in this episode. In part thanks to being given additional prominence in [[Dreamwave Productions]]' comic books, the character would subsequently spawn a plethora of additional toys, including ''[[The Transformers: Masterpiece|Masterpiece]]'' figures by both Hasbro and Takara. While most "Sunstorm" figures are based on the standard Seeker body-type that transforms into an Earth jet, both the ''[[Titanium Series]]'' "Cybertron Heroes" [[Sunstorm (G1)#Titanium Series|Sunstorm]] figure and the ''[[Legends Class (2005)|Legends]] of [[Transformers: Cybertron (toyline)|Cybertron]]'' [[Sunstorm (Universe)#Cybertron|Sunstorm]] figure (the latter of which represents the [[Unicron Trilogy continuity family|Unicron Trilogy]] version of Sunstorm) transform into Cybertronian fighter jets that are heavily inspired by the Seekers' "tetrajet" alternate mode seen in this episode. The original Sunstorm figure was later re-released in 2009, once again exclusive to e-HOBBY.

[[File:MP Prowl.jpg|thumb|upright=0.8|right|The shoulder cannons absolutely needed to be justified with an episode screencap… which actually shows an animation error.]]
*'''''Collector's Edition'' 88 [[Hauler#Collector's Edition|RoadHauler]] (Takara, 2003)'''
:An e-HOBBY exclusive redeco of the original ''Generation 1'' [[Grapple (G1)#Generation 1|Grapple]] toy in a [[Constructicon (G1)|Constructicon]]-inspired green color scheme, intended to represent the Grapple lookalike seen in this episode, with the choice for his colors taking inspiration from "[[The Secret of Omega Supreme (episode)|The Secret of Omega Supreme]]" and "[[Five Faces of Darkness, Part 4]]".

*'''''[[The Transformers: Masterpiece|Masterpiece]]'' MP-13 [[Soundwave (G1)/toys#Masterpiece|Soundwave]] (TakaraTomy, 2013)'''
:One of the accessories included with the figure is a display grid that attaches over his chest door: The last page of the instruction booklet features a pair of cutouts you can place underneath the grid to simulate Soundwave projecting them on his chest, one of them being the space cruiser blueprints from this episode.

*'''''Masterpiece'' MP-17 [[Prowl (G1)/toys#Masterpiece|Prowl]] (TakaraTomy, 2013)'''
:Although they were technically based on the original ''Generation 1'' toy, TakaraTomy specifically used a screencap from this episode to "justify" the inclusion of shoulder cannons with their ''Masterpiece'' toy of Prowl… a screencap that actually depicts an ''animation error'' with ''[[Bluestreak (G1)|Bluestreak]]'' colored like Prowl (see above), hence the shoulder cannons.

*'''''Masterpiece'' MP-29 [[Shockwave (G1)/toys#Masterpiece|Destron Laserwave]] (TakaraTomy, 2016)'''
:Among the other accessories, this figure includes a normal left hand that replaces his laser gun to recreate Shockwave's two-handed appearance in this episode, plus an alternate right hand to recreate the salute he gives to Megatron.

*'''''[[War for Cybertron: Siege]]'' (2019)'''
:Representing Cybertronian forms rather than Earth modes, many of the figures from ''Siege'' are either directly based upon or incorporate features or design elements referencing this episode. Voyager [[Starscream (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Siege|Starscream]] transforms into a tetrajet based on thie episode, [[Soundwave (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Siege|Soundwave]] has an "easter egg" third mode of "Cybertronian Sensor Lamp", and although ''Siege'' [[Laserbeak (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Siege|Laserbeak]] still resembles his more bird-like form, his head design is a direct reference to his cartoon Cybertronian form.

*'''''[[War for Cybertron: Earthrise]]'' [[Cliffjumper (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Earthrise|Cliffjumper]] (2020)'''
:This figure comes with the giant cannon from this episode as one of its accessories. The ''Buzzworthy Bumblebee'' redeco of the figure features a deco that closely resembles the weapon's color in the show.

*'''''[[War for Cybertron: Kingdom]]'' [[Ark (G1)#War for Cybertron: Kingdom|Autobot Ark]] (2021)'''
:A Titan-class transforming figure based directly off the Ark's appearance in this episode. One of it's included accessories is the [[Sky Spy]] drone that provided the Autobots and Decepticons their Earth alt-modes

*'''''[[Buzzworthy Bumblebee]]'' [[Bumblebee (G1)/toys#BuzzworthyOrigin|Origin Bumblebee]] (2021)'''
:This figure is based on Bumblebee's Cybertronian form, and comes with five [[Conductor|conductor rods]].

*'''''[[Studio Series]]'' [[Starscream (G1)/toys#Studio Series|Coronation Starscream]] (2022)'''
:The throne accessory included with this figure is based on the one Megatron [[:File:Mtmte1 megatron throne.jpg|uses]] in the Nemesis from this episode.

*'''''[[Buzzworthy Bumblebee]]'' [[Jazz (G1)/toys#Buzzworthy Bumblebee|Origin Autobot Jazz]] (2023)''
:This figure is based on Jazz's Cybertronian form.

*'''''[[Transformers: Legacy|Transformers Legacy Evolution]]'' [[Nemesis (G1)#Legacy 2|Nemesis]] (2023)''
:A Titan class transforming figure based directly on the ship the Decepticons used to follow the Autobots to Earth. One of its advertised features is a boarding dock to simulate the Decepticon attack on the Ark.

*'''''[[Transformers: Legacy|Transformers Legacy United]]'' [[Wheeljack (G1)/toys#Legacy|Origin Wheeljack]] (2024)''
:A Voyager class based on his Cybertronian form, being the first on-screen Transformer, and can fit [[Bumblebee (G1)/toys#BuzzworthyOrigin|Bumblebee]] (even including sculpted conductor rod storage racks!) into his trunk. Oddly, this toy is not part of the Buzzworthy lineup.
{{-}}

==Home video releases==
{{homevidnote}}
;VHS
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 1985 — ''The Transformers'' — Volume 1: "More than Meets the Eye" ([[Family Home Entertainment]]) 
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 1985 — ''Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers'' ([[VAP]]) — Japanese audio only. 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 1986 — ''The Transformers'' — Arrival from Cybertron ([[Video Gems|A.M.T. Video Gems]]) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 1988 — ''The Transformers'' — Arrival from Cybertron ([[Video Gems|V.I.P. Video Gems]]) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 1991 — ''The Transformers'' — Arrival from Cybertron ([[Video Gems|Little Gems Junior Video Club]]) 
[[File:Flag of Canada.png|20px|Canada]] 1999 — ''The Transformers: Generation 2'' — More than Meets the Eye ([[Malofilm|Seville Entertainment]]) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2001 — ''The Original Transformers'' — Exclusively from Blockbuster ([[The Original Transformers|Rhino Entertainment]])
;{{w|LaserDisc}}
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 1994 — ''Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers'' — Convoy Set ([[TakaraTomy|Takara]]) — Japanese audio only. 
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 1998 — ''The Transformers'' — Autobot Edition ([[Geneon Universal Entertainment|Pioneer LDC]]) — Japanese audio only.
;DVD
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 2001 — ''The Transformers'' — DVD Box 1 (Pioneer LDC) — Japanese audio only. 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2002 — ''Transformers: Generation 2'' ([[Maverick Entertainment|Sony Wonder]]) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2002 — ''Transformers'' — Original Series: Volume Two (Sony Wonder) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2002 — ''Transformers'' — Complete Original Series: Deluxe Edition (Sony Wonder) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2002 — ''The Original Transformers'' — First Season Collector's Edition ([[The Original Transformers|Rhino Entertainment]]) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2002 — ''The Original Transformers'' — Volume One (Rhino Entertainment) 
[[File:Flag of Australia.png|20px|Australia]] 2003 — ''Transformers'' — Collection 1: Series 1 ([[Madman Entertainment]]) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2004 — ''Transformers'' — Season 1 ([[Metrodome]]) 
[[File:Flag of France.png|20px|France]] 2004 — ''Transformers'' — Volume 1 ([[Déclic Images]]) — European French audio only. 
[[File:Flag of Australia.png|20px|Australia]] 2006 — The Best of ''The Transformers'' (Madman Entertainment) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2006 — ''Transformers'' — The Complete Generation One Collection (Metrodome) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2006 — Cult Sci-Fi Legends (Metrodome) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2007 — ''Transformers'' — The Classic Episodes (Metrodome) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2007 — ''Classic Transformers'' — Series One: Part One (Metrodome) 
[[File:Flag of Australia.png|20px|Australia]] 2007 — ''The Transformers'' — Complete Collection (Madman Entertainment) 
[[File:Flag of Italy.png|20px|Italy]] 2008 — ''Transformers'' — Volume 01: Stagione Uno Parte Prima ([[Medianetwork Communication]]) — English and Italian audio. 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2009 — ''Transformers'' — Season One (Metrodome) 
[[File:Flag of Australia.png|20px|Australia]] 2009 — ''The Transformers'' — Complete Collection: Decepticon Edition (Madman Entertainment) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2009 — ''The Transformers'' — The Complete First Season: 25th Anniversary Edition ([[Shout! Studios|Shout! Factory]]) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2009 — ''The Transformers'' — More than Meets the Eye (Shout! Factory) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2009 — ''The Transformers'' — The Complete Series: 25th Anniversary "Matrix of Leadership" Collection (Shout! Factory) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2011 — ''The Transformers'' — The Complete Original Series (Shout! Factory) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2014 — ''The Transformers'' — The Complete First Season: 30th Anniversary Edition (Shout! Factory) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2014 — ''Transformers'' — The Classic Animated Series (Metrodome)

==External links==
*[https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hd2wbHm760yJOXTQ2toOyVUAPosa2suB/view?usp=drive_link Full episode script, with revision pages dated 13th March 1984]

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

[[Category:The Transformers episodes]]
[[Category:Generation 2 episodes]]
[[Category:MSTF]]
[[Category:Pack-in material]]
[[Category:Universe (2008)]]

Norm McCabe

2024-07-22T19:36:00Z

JoseBxR: /* Notes */ Clarifying that this is an error from Rhino, not from broadcast

[[Image:Norm McCabe.jpg|thumb|right|150px]]
'''Norm McCabe''' ([[February 10]], [[1911]]–[[January 18]], [[2006]]) was a veteran animation director and animator. While he was born in Newcastle upon Tyne, England, his family moved to America where he was raised. In the 1930s, he began animating for [[Warner Bros.]] and worked on many of their classic cartoons alongside the likes of Bob Clampett and Tex Avery. In '43, he was drafted to fight in World War II, and it wasn't until 1963 that he returned to animation. He worked on the likes of the ''Pink Panther'', ''Fritz the Cat'', and ''Bugs Bunny'' all through the 60s and 70s. In the 80s, he ended up on ''[[The Transformers (cartoon)|The Transformers]]'', credited variously as a sequence director or a plain director. He also worked on ''[[Jem]]'', ''[[G.I. Joe (franchise)|G.I. Joe]]'', ''Muppet Babies'', ''Animaniacs'' and ''Taz-Mania''. He was presented with the Windsor McCay Award at the Annie Awards in 2000.

==Directing work==
*''[[The Transformers (cartoon)|The Transformers]]'' (seasons 1–3, unknown episodes)
*"[[The Transformers: The Movie]]"

==Notes==
In the credits restoration for the [[Rhino Entertainment|Rhinomation]] DVD release of the [[More than Meets the Eye (mini-series)|More than Meets the Eye mini series]], he is incorrectly credited as Nor M McCabe.

==External links==
*[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0564495/ Norm McCabe] at the IMDB.
*{{w|Norman McCabe}} at Wikipedia.

{{DEFAULTSORT:McCabe, Norm}}
[[Category:Directors]]

User:JoseBxR

2024-07-20T16:29:18Z

JoseBxR: /* Animation Determination As Of May 12, 2023 */

==About==
Music artist and Media Editor for OverClocked ReMix. 
Creative talent with absolutely no free time to create. 
Maintaining a YouTube channel for multimedia product, but so far is mostly a collection of funny English dubs of martial arts films. 
Animation maven from the prehistoric (before Internet) era. Areas of interest: U.S. theatrical shorts from 1930-1954; U.S. theatrical cel animation; Animation produced in Japan for Japan from 1970-1995; TV animation co-produced in Japan from 1980-1995.

This page is to be a repository for information regarding my research in '''identifying G1 animation works''', and also possibly information on poor G1 English dubbing, perhaps even the music from the series and my issues with presenting so many show oddities as "errors". 
'''UPDATE July 20. 2024:''' I decided after decades to finally get around to '''restoring and compiling''' my G1 collection digitally; I think there are enough tools out there to do the job somewhat conveniently, although I still don't have the free time to do it as quickly as I'd like. This is concurrent with the task of figuring out which animation was done where, because a lot of overlap occurred during research on both fronts. It turns out that the '''Rhino releases''', which I own, has a far larger rabbit hole of editing errors than I think most of us even realize (even Shout Factory managed to ignore a lot of it), and so I'm forced to '''keep a running tally of what I discover.''' Of a huge help is the release of G1 episodes dubbed in Japanese by the Takara Tomy channel on youtube. I also want to try for a new, more definitive, higher-quality collection of '''BGM from Douglas and Walsh''', to add '''Japanese and Spanish audio''' (I can't do much about the quality of those, regrettably), and may ask for or contribute to efforts to '''translate and create subtitles in English, Spanish and Japanese.''' Since I'm here at the wiki, this will be the '''hub for all info''' on this project. I understand there must be other similar media efforts out there (I've seen little truly promising work except perhaps for the Grim2 channel), and whenever I get the chance, I'll "compile and eval" those. I apologize in advance for not having any sort of timetable for anything (maybe after I retire from my job; I'm still far too "young"), so I won't ask folks to "stay tuned", but I promise to work steadily (as I type, I'm currently working thru Episode 1 issues).

==All notes on identifying G1 animation (subject to change)==
Following is pure draft speculation, and is being updated constantly as I uncover new evidence. '''''Nothing is 100 percent, so please do not spread this info elsewhere, unless it's in an episode's discussion tab.''''' Everything so far is mostly attributed to "my own eyes and my own experience", which may be what got us into this mess regarding AKOM's work, but the difference with me is I keep my conclusion-jumping to an absolute minimum. Anyone can feel free to comment and point me to any and all additional, even contradictory, evidence for consideration within the discussion tab. I intend to compile video evidence of animation techniques, movement and styles between episodes '''(eps)''', and present them somewhere for the community, possibly for linking to talk pages.

===Animation Determination As Of May 12, 2023===
'''Season 1 (s1):'''
*16 TOEI and/or TOEI-Outsourced
'''Season 2 (s2):'''
*39 TOEI and/or TOEI-Outsourced
*At least 7 AKOM and/or AKOM-Outsourced
**"[[Auto Berserk]]"
**"[[A Prime Problem]]"
**"[[A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court (episode)|A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court]]"
**"[[Make Tracks]]"
**"[[The Secret of Omega Supreme (episode)|The Secret of Omega Supreme]]"
**"[[Kremzeek!]]"
**"[[Triple Takeover]]" (evidence of Sei Young animation, suggesting TOEI/AKOM collab)
*3 HANHO HEUNG-UP, possibly produced by MIHAHN
**"[[City of Steel (episode)|City of Steel]]"
**"[[The Autobot Run]]"
**"[[The Core]]"
'''Season 3 (s3):'''
*13 TOEI-Outsourced
*15 AKOM and/or AKOM-Outsourced
*2 SEI YOUNG
**"[[Surprise Party]]"
**"[[Only Human]]"
'''Season 4 (s4):'''
*3 AKOM

===Factual Evidence===
This collection of facts and creator claims is the basis for research on all eps, on the understanding that there may be errors here as well.

AKOM '''claims work on 39 eps''' from the entire series (according to their website)

Toei (according to archived "resume" webpage) '''claims work on'''
*'''all 3 eps''' from pilot miniseries
*'''all 13 eps''' from "Part 1" (season 1)
*'''39 eps''' from "Part 2" (season 2)
*'''13 eps''' from "Part 3" (season 3)

'''The Megna Co-Productions Database''' is quite valuable as a resource for identifying studios, but at the same time as horrifying as any other source for the lack of attributions, bibliography or citations. Major props to member [[User:Danja|Danja]] for the find.

Production materials allude to '''AKOM out-sourcing to Sam Young''' studio. Production materials belonging to Paul Davids indicate '''Sei Young worked on''' "Surprise Party", with no evidence of Toei involvement. Davids also claims some work came from a '''studio in the Philippines'''. There is confirmed evidence of '''storyboards shipped to Korea or Japan''' for preliminary work, which may or may not offer clues on the studio(s) ultimately selected for animation work. '''Nobuyoshi Habara (apparently with Ashi Pro at the time)''' claims work on several episodes; it's unclear which ones based on the episode numbers he offers, but his impressive technique is highly recognizable, which will make it relatively easy to identify episodes. '''Eiji Suganuma''' claims work as animation director on "Call of the Primitives" and says Toei passed work to Studio Look, which in turn passed some work to "International Animation Research Institute". Daewon Media of South Korea confirms on their website that their previous incarnation, '''Dai Won Animation''', has provided OEM work for Marvel's productions as a Toei subcontractor.

===Challenges===
It is admittedly difficult to identify studios in general, and non-Toei animation in particular, as explained below. However, I’m still baffled as to why only three eps out of s2 were readily identified as AKOM, ''and nothing else'', considering that Nelson Shin was supervising producer, his wife was production manager, and especially with so many other eps unidentified. There should have been no “unknown studio” as understood up to this point: if it’s not Toei, then the next reasonable thought would be that ''Nelson got '''his''' people to do it''. Now that we have some numbers out there, any “unknowns” that exist will likely not match the accepted info.

I want to note here: '''the mission for now is to determine which eps are claimed by Toei and which by AKOM, that is, which studio produced key animation''', whether outsourced or in-house, and after I'm satisfied with the result, I'll see if it's possible to look into the various other studios being mentioned, keeping in mind that listing of an extra studio doesn't indicate anything more than involvement, let alone main animation production. I didn’t necessarily wish to go into the weeds of exactly who was outsourced to do which ep, but some of that work will have to be done to the extent of gathering evidence for identifying Toei and AKOM work, and maybe it’s worth trying so that the wiki could be able to link to and track all evidence linking studios to this work.

'''''I need help on citations:''''' This site links to that one tweet about Studio Look, since everyone was dying to know who was behind "Call of the Primitives" (what made you all think it was TMS? LOL), and then there is the archived Toei resume and the aforementioned Megna Database where mentions of "Nakamura", "Dai Won", etc. come from, but the latter is the only place that has apparent authority of any sort, yet still no citations. Sites such as iMDB, TV Tropes and ANN welcome contributions, but with no apparent links to authoritative resources, not even on an "some guy said to me over DMs" level. '''''This is maddening'''''. Anything real that I collect I want to try to get preserved on this page, at least until we have something better established in the community.

Speaking for myself, this process is not as easy when there aren’t enough human characters running around to compare with. Robot characters make it more difficult. Most times you can only rely on mouth movement, a few poses and possibly some special effects, and that’s about it.

The greatest difficulty with identifying AKOM work is that this show is essentially their very first product: Marvel helped establish the studio in South Korea in 1985, and they probably hit the ground running, even though their first official work may be “My Little Pony: the Movie”. There’s almost nothing else from the time period, all the way until “Spiral Zone” in 1987, and by then their style changed significantly in some areas. Still, there are some good clues in that show, ''and they credit the animators''!

Some folks are using “models” as a way of identifying animation. Although bad animation wouldn’t necessarily follow models anyway, and I wouldn’t want us to overthink about how something ''looks'', at the expense of how something ''moves'', this could be helpful in spots. In the case of Hoist, it helps me confirm where there’s a previous suspicion; The “alternate" Hoist model is identified only in eps that I already suspected were done by AKOM.

AKOM's majority of work in s3 is on another level of garbage generally, and IMO it should not be used as any sort of guide for comparing techniques in other seasons or shows. It just doesn't look like anything else out there; it seems to be almost exclusively the work of Sam Young, and I hesitate to even assign blame to AKOM, except for agreeing to outsource work to this bootleg outlet. AKOM ''is'' capable of good animation, even great animation in the view of some. They apparently allowed their dregs to work on s3, but s2 had a few legit awesome sequences. I’m convinced “A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur’s Court” is one of theirs, and it’s arguably their best TF work. By the time s4 came around, AKOM settled on a style similar to most contemporaneous South Korean output, but still characterized by their almost singular sloppy line work.

===THOSE “Three”===
"City of Steel", "The Autobot Run" and "The Core" are in my view very, very obviously produced by some studio out of South Korea employed by Marvel around this time (basically MiHahn and/or Dong Seo, with a Hong Kong outfit called Pan Sang East possibly collaborating with Dong Seo), because the work is virtually identical to work on "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends", as well as other Marvel shows of that period, not to mention several Ruby/Spears productions. “Amazing” explicitly credits an "association" with MiHahn, and “Incredible Hulk” is said to be from Pan Sang East. I have seen credits from either “Hulk” or “Hulk & Spider-Man” that mention Pan Sang East. It’s my guess the "Philippines" remark references something from these ranks, although they're not located there. Those eps are '''not''' AKOM-style to my eyes, and apparently no one has challenged this for a long time. Previously, I didn't rule out the possibility that this unknown studio may have ended up as an AKOM sub-contractor, because we have evidence of AKOM outsourcing due to the Sam Young materials. However, more evidence from Megna leads me to what may be a conclusion.

'''IF it is TRUE that''' 1) Dong Seo worked on “Spider-Friends”, “Hulk”, and several Ruby/Spears shows, 2) Steven Hahn founded MiHahn (which produced for “Spider-Friends” apparently with Dong Seo) in 1984, then founded Hanho Heung-Up soon afterward, out of animators at Dong Seo, 3) MiHahn and Hanho then formed a partnership on several 80’s shows, mostly for Nelvana in Canada, '''THEN''' the animation in “those three” could plausibly have been produced ''after'' the combination of MiHahn/Hanho was in effect, but ''before'' AKOM was formally established in '85, especially considering the talk at TV Tropes that Marvel didn’t want to keep paying Toei. Until I get contradicting info, '''I'm awfully close to concluding that those 3 are “Hanho Heung-Up” or “Mihahn & Hanho Heung-Up” productions.''' Interestingly, Toei and Hanho are said to have worked on "Turbo Teen". I’d still like to know what the deal was with Pan Sang East, tho. (Current suspicion: after working on "Pandamonium" and "Meatballs and Spaghetti", the Hong Kong studio went on to create all the ''awesome'' transformation sequences for "The Incredible Hulk", leaving all other animation in the series to Dong Seo.)

===Overlap?===
Some folks have it right that because one studio claims an ep, it doesn’t preclude other studios laying claim to the same ep. The numbers from Toei and AKOM imply some overlap. I have come to rely on depictions of Megatron for identifying Toei works, and Starscream for identifying AKOM works, but it's not foolproof. I worked out all the Toei claims, stupidly not considering that the community has already done most of that good work, but the AKOM stuff will require much more study, especially since, unlike with Toei, there are no numbers on how many eps they produced for s2. '''Has anyone tried to ask Nelson Shin?''' People have indeed contacted him about possibly releasing his magnum opus “Empress Chung” internationally. Unless AKOM themselves come clean about which 39 eps they are claiming, we may never have a complete resolution. I don’t expect they’ll cooperate after decades of (some undeserved) scorn and ridicule heaped on them by the fandom, but maybe worth a shot?

'''More new evidence to consider. IF it is TRUE that''' 1) Toei, according to their resume, produced 33 out of 39 episodes of “Jem Part 2” (understood to be Seasons 2 and 3), 2) “Jem” was animated, according to Megna, by Toei, Shin Won and Sam Young, 3) the work went to Shin Won and Sam Young because, according to TV Tropes, Marvel couldn’t afford to keep paying Toei for this show, 4) AKOM (which employed Sam Young) produced six of these 39 eps of “Jem”, according to Wikipedia, 5) Shin Won, according to TV Tropes, worked on specific s2 eps, '''THEN''' the question that could blow this case wide open becomes: '''What if Shin Won was indeed another AKOM subcontractor?''' I said before that Shin Won might not have done anything beyond in-betweening, but that was because I assumed they worked for Toei, but if it was AKOM, then that changes the game. The problem so far is they don’t seem to be working for AKOM in every show said to be theirs, and I’m also ''highly skeptical'' of some of the Shin Won assertions at TV Tropes, but I admit it’s an interesting clue.

===Recycling===
Recycled animation is virtually a dead giveaway for identifying studios. I started with the idea that any ep that reuses animation from Toei could be assumed to be claimed by Toei. I strongly suspected that even if an episode has nothing else from Toei except that Prime animation, then Toei claims it. “Attack of the Autobots” doesn’t seem to have anything else Toei-like, but I'm not sold in either direction yet. Same for "Starscream's Brigade", which is likely a cheap Sei Young product, but has the Prime sequence, and also a Lazerbeak eject sequence actually re-traced from the original shot in the Toei-produced "Changing Gears". I am marking stuff like this in my research. It’s not just Prime: “Golden Lagoon” features stock Toei animation of Omega Supreme; a Bruticus merge is repeated in “Revenge of Bruticus”; certain cassette ejections are repeated in certain episodes; etc.

===Other Eps and Other Shows===
My research spreadsheet has descriptions of certain styles from Toei such as "Traitor" animation and "Immobilizer" animation, so I could try to compare between eps, but I'm watching other shows of the period as well. “G.I. Joe” and “Defenders of the Earth”, as mentioned, are very good study resources. For example, I realized that although “Aerial Assault” is unique for Transformers, this animation (possibly in-house) is in quite a few “Joe” eps (most notably the “Pyramid of Darkness” 5-parter), and I'm now seeing plenty of this work in "Jem" eps. That's another very helpful source. In the case of Sei Young, “Defenders” gives us much more than “Surprise Party” to use as a reference, because they produced so many eps on that show. I’m convinced “Only Human” is a Sei Young product, which would actually reconcile some of the available info. Here’s why: The Toei resume indicates 13 “Part 3” eps, but also indicates a production year of “1987”; that would seem incorrect, unless they either didn’t count “The Return of Optimus Prime” (which aired Feb. ‘87) or didn't work on two of the non-AKOM eps. However, if the two Sei Young eps don’t count as Toei-produced, the numbers check out. Toei’s resume claims only two eps of “Defenders”, so we know Sei Young doesn’t count under Toei in that case. "Starscream's Brigade" is said to be done by Sei Young, and I believe that as well, but on the other hand there is also the Toei Prime animation and evidence of a "retraced" Toei shot of Soundwave, which points to a Toei claim as well. If anyone has evidence of other shows, animes and animation confirmed to be produced by certain studios mentioned here (I already checked AKOM's other stuff), please call to my attention.

'''Case in point on this subject:''' There's been a lot of activity over the past month at TV Tropes (March/April 2023), with a couple members entering a whole lot of G1 animation info. Some of it seems quite legit, some of it harder to believe, and at least one seems to have come from my offhand comment about “G.I. Joe” at "Unknown Studios" (not cool). My spreadsheet now has all this info entered under a new column called “WHO THE HELL SAYS?”, and I don’t know how to begin reconciling because, ''LIKE ALWAYS, this new info has no attribution and no source citation.'' If I had hair on my head, I’d be pulling it right out.

===Ink & Paint===
Folks should keep in mind that “later” stages in animation, such as ink & paint, could be done by other studios. I feel as though certain episodes may have farmed that work out, so when folks, for example, say that “Starscream’s Ghost” is so much better qualitatively than their other s3 works, I don’t see that as much as I see slightly better work enhanced with better ink & paint. In the case of “Only Human”, ink & paint seems to make Sei Young’s animation better than their exact same output for “Surprise Party”. “Return of Optimus” Part 2, IMO, is ''quite terrible'', but with very impressive ink & paint work that I believe makes people think the animation is better than it actually is.

User:JoseBxR

2024-07-20T16:25:01Z

JoseBxR: /* About */

==About==
Music artist and Media Editor for OverClocked ReMix. 
Creative talent with absolutely no free time to create. 
Maintaining a YouTube channel for multimedia product, but so far is mostly a collection of funny English dubs of martial arts films. 
Animation maven from the prehistoric (before Internet) era. Areas of interest: U.S. theatrical shorts from 1930-1954; U.S. theatrical cel animation; Animation produced in Japan for Japan from 1970-1995; TV animation co-produced in Japan from 1980-1995.

This page is to be a repository for information regarding my research in '''identifying G1 animation works''', and also possibly information on poor G1 English dubbing, perhaps even the music from the series and my issues with presenting so many show oddities as "errors". 
'''UPDATE July 20. 2024:''' I decided after decades to finally get around to '''restoring and compiling''' my G1 collection digitally; I think there are enough tools out there to do the job somewhat conveniently, although I still don't have the free time to do it as quickly as I'd like. This is concurrent with the task of figuring out which animation was done where, because a lot of overlap occurred during research on both fronts. It turns out that the '''Rhino releases''', which I own, has a far larger rabbit hole of editing errors than I think most of us even realize (even Shout Factory managed to ignore a lot of it), and so I'm forced to '''keep a running tally of what I discover.''' Of a huge help is the release of G1 episodes dubbed in Japanese by the Takara Tomy channel on youtube. I also want to try for a new, more definitive, higher-quality collection of '''BGM from Douglas and Walsh''', to add '''Japanese and Spanish audio''' (I can't do much about the quality of those, regrettably), and may ask for or contribute to efforts to '''translate and create subtitles in English, Spanish and Japanese.''' Since I'm here at the wiki, this will be the '''hub for all info''' on this project. I understand there must be other similar media efforts out there (I've seen little truly promising work except perhaps for the Grim2 channel), and whenever I get the chance, I'll "compile and eval" those. I apologize in advance for not having any sort of timetable for anything (maybe after I retire from my job; I'm still far too "young"), so I won't ask folks to "stay tuned", but I promise to work steadily (as I type, I'm currently working thru Episode 1 issues).

==All notes on identifying G1 animation (subject to change)==
Following is pure draft speculation, and is being updated constantly as I uncover new evidence. '''''Nothing is 100 percent, so please do not spread this info elsewhere, unless it's in an episode's discussion tab.''''' Everything so far is mostly attributed to "my own eyes and my own experience", which may be what got us into this mess regarding AKOM's work, but the difference with me is I keep my conclusion-jumping to an absolute minimum. Anyone can feel free to comment and point me to any and all additional, even contradictory, evidence for consideration within the discussion tab. I intend to compile video evidence of animation techniques, movement and styles between episodes '''(eps)''', and present them somewhere for the community, possibly for linking to talk pages.

===Animation Determination As Of May 12, 2023===
'''Season 1 (s1):'''
*16 TOEI and/or TOEI-Outsourced
'''Season 2 (s2):'''
*39 TOEI and/or TOEI-Outsourced
*At least 7 AKOM and/or AKOM-Outsourced
**"[[Auto Berserk]]"
**"[[A Prime Problem]]"
**"[[A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court (episode)|A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court]]"
**"[[Make Tracks]]"
**"[[The Secret of Omega Supreme (episode)|The Secret of Omega Supreme]]"
**"[[Kremzeek!]]"
**"[[Triple Takeover]]"
*3 HANHO HEUNG-UP, possibly produced by MIHAHN
**"[[City of Steel (episode)|City of Steel]]"
**"[[The Autobot Run]]"
**"[[The Core]]"
'''Season 3 (s3):'''
*13 TOEI-Outsourced
*15 AKOM and/or AKOM-Outsourced
*2 SEI YOUNG
**"[[Surprise Party]]"
**"[[Only Human]]"
'''Season 4 (s4):'''
*3 AKOM

===Factual Evidence===
This collection of facts and creator claims is the basis for research on all eps, on the understanding that there may be errors here as well.

AKOM '''claims work on 39 eps''' from the entire series (according to their website)

Toei (according to archived "resume" webpage) '''claims work on'''
*'''all 3 eps''' from pilot miniseries
*'''all 13 eps''' from "Part 1" (season 1)
*'''39 eps''' from "Part 2" (season 2)
*'''13 eps''' from "Part 3" (season 3)

'''The Megna Co-Productions Database''' is quite valuable as a resource for identifying studios, but at the same time as horrifying as any other source for the lack of attributions, bibliography or citations. Major props to member [[User:Danja|Danja]] for the find.

Production materials allude to '''AKOM out-sourcing to Sam Young''' studio. Production materials belonging to Paul Davids indicate '''Sei Young worked on''' "Surprise Party", with no evidence of Toei involvement. Davids also claims some work came from a '''studio in the Philippines'''. There is confirmed evidence of '''storyboards shipped to Korea or Japan''' for preliminary work, which may or may not offer clues on the studio(s) ultimately selected for animation work. '''Nobuyoshi Habara (apparently with Ashi Pro at the time)''' claims work on several episodes; it's unclear which ones based on the episode numbers he offers, but his impressive technique is highly recognizable, which will make it relatively easy to identify episodes. '''Eiji Suganuma''' claims work as animation director on "Call of the Primitives" and says Toei passed work to Studio Look, which in turn passed some work to "International Animation Research Institute". Daewon Media of South Korea confirms on their website that their previous incarnation, '''Dai Won Animation''', has provided OEM work for Marvel's productions as a Toei subcontractor.

===Challenges===
It is admittedly difficult to identify studios in general, and non-Toei animation in particular, as explained below. However, I’m still baffled as to why only three eps out of s2 were readily identified as AKOM, ''and nothing else'', considering that Nelson Shin was supervising producer, his wife was production manager, and especially with so many other eps unidentified. There should have been no “unknown studio” as understood up to this point: if it’s not Toei, then the next reasonable thought would be that ''Nelson got '''his''' people to do it''. Now that we have some numbers out there, any “unknowns” that exist will likely not match the accepted info.

I want to note here: '''the mission for now is to determine which eps are claimed by Toei and which by AKOM, that is, which studio produced key animation''', whether outsourced or in-house, and after I'm satisfied with the result, I'll see if it's possible to look into the various other studios being mentioned, keeping in mind that listing of an extra studio doesn't indicate anything more than involvement, let alone main animation production. I didn’t necessarily wish to go into the weeds of exactly who was outsourced to do which ep, but some of that work will have to be done to the extent of gathering evidence for identifying Toei and AKOM work, and maybe it’s worth trying so that the wiki could be able to link to and track all evidence linking studios to this work.

'''''I need help on citations:''''' This site links to that one tweet about Studio Look, since everyone was dying to know who was behind "Call of the Primitives" (what made you all think it was TMS? LOL), and then there is the archived Toei resume and the aforementioned Megna Database where mentions of "Nakamura", "Dai Won", etc. come from, but the latter is the only place that has apparent authority of any sort, yet still no citations. Sites such as iMDB, TV Tropes and ANN welcome contributions, but with no apparent links to authoritative resources, not even on an "some guy said to me over DMs" level. '''''This is maddening'''''. Anything real that I collect I want to try to get preserved on this page, at least until we have something better established in the community.

Speaking for myself, this process is not as easy when there aren’t enough human characters running around to compare with. Robot characters make it more difficult. Most times you can only rely on mouth movement, a few poses and possibly some special effects, and that’s about it.

The greatest difficulty with identifying AKOM work is that this show is essentially their very first product: Marvel helped establish the studio in South Korea in 1985, and they probably hit the ground running, even though their first official work may be “My Little Pony: the Movie”. There’s almost nothing else from the time period, all the way until “Spiral Zone” in 1987, and by then their style changed significantly in some areas. Still, there are some good clues in that show, ''and they credit the animators''!

Some folks are using “models” as a way of identifying animation. Although bad animation wouldn’t necessarily follow models anyway, and I wouldn’t want us to overthink about how something ''looks'', at the expense of how something ''moves'', this could be helpful in spots. In the case of Hoist, it helps me confirm where there’s a previous suspicion; The “alternate" Hoist model is identified only in eps that I already suspected were done by AKOM.

AKOM's majority of work in s3 is on another level of garbage generally, and IMO it should not be used as any sort of guide for comparing techniques in other seasons or shows. It just doesn't look like anything else out there; it seems to be almost exclusively the work of Sam Young, and I hesitate to even assign blame to AKOM, except for agreeing to outsource work to this bootleg outlet. AKOM ''is'' capable of good animation, even great animation in the view of some. They apparently allowed their dregs to work on s3, but s2 had a few legit awesome sequences. I’m convinced “A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur’s Court” is one of theirs, and it’s arguably their best TF work. By the time s4 came around, AKOM settled on a style similar to most contemporaneous South Korean output, but still characterized by their almost singular sloppy line work.

===THOSE “Three”===
"City of Steel", "The Autobot Run" and "The Core" are in my view very, very obviously produced by some studio out of South Korea employed by Marvel around this time (basically MiHahn and/or Dong Seo, with a Hong Kong outfit called Pan Sang East possibly collaborating with Dong Seo), because the work is virtually identical to work on "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends", as well as other Marvel shows of that period, not to mention several Ruby/Spears productions. “Amazing” explicitly credits an "association" with MiHahn, and “Incredible Hulk” is said to be from Pan Sang East. I have seen credits from either “Hulk” or “Hulk & Spider-Man” that mention Pan Sang East. It’s my guess the "Philippines" remark references something from these ranks, although they're not located there. Those eps are '''not''' AKOM-style to my eyes, and apparently no one has challenged this for a long time. Previously, I didn't rule out the possibility that this unknown studio may have ended up as an AKOM sub-contractor, because we have evidence of AKOM outsourcing due to the Sam Young materials. However, more evidence from Megna leads me to what may be a conclusion.

'''IF it is TRUE that''' 1) Dong Seo worked on “Spider-Friends”, “Hulk”, and several Ruby/Spears shows, 2) Steven Hahn founded MiHahn (which produced for “Spider-Friends” apparently with Dong Seo) in 1984, then founded Hanho Heung-Up soon afterward, out of animators at Dong Seo, 3) MiHahn and Hanho then formed a partnership on several 80’s shows, mostly for Nelvana in Canada, '''THEN''' the animation in “those three” could plausibly have been produced ''after'' the combination of MiHahn/Hanho was in effect, but ''before'' AKOM was formally established in '85, especially considering the talk at TV Tropes that Marvel didn’t want to keep paying Toei. Until I get contradicting info, '''I'm awfully close to concluding that those 3 are “Hanho Heung-Up” or “Mihahn & Hanho Heung-Up” productions.''' Interestingly, Toei and Hanho are said to have worked on "Turbo Teen". I’d still like to know what the deal was with Pan Sang East, tho. (Current suspicion: after working on "Pandamonium" and "Meatballs and Spaghetti", the Hong Kong studio went on to create all the ''awesome'' transformation sequences for "The Incredible Hulk", leaving all other animation in the series to Dong Seo.)

===Overlap?===
Some folks have it right that because one studio claims an ep, it doesn’t preclude other studios laying claim to the same ep. The numbers from Toei and AKOM imply some overlap. I have come to rely on depictions of Megatron for identifying Toei works, and Starscream for identifying AKOM works, but it's not foolproof. I worked out all the Toei claims, stupidly not considering that the community has already done most of that good work, but the AKOM stuff will require much more study, especially since, unlike with Toei, there are no numbers on how many eps they produced for s2. '''Has anyone tried to ask Nelson Shin?''' People have indeed contacted him about possibly releasing his magnum opus “Empress Chung” internationally. Unless AKOM themselves come clean about which 39 eps they are claiming, we may never have a complete resolution. I don’t expect they’ll cooperate after decades of (some undeserved) scorn and ridicule heaped on them by the fandom, but maybe worth a shot?

'''More new evidence to consider. IF it is TRUE that''' 1) Toei, according to their resume, produced 33 out of 39 episodes of “Jem Part 2” (understood to be Seasons 2 and 3), 2) “Jem” was animated, according to Megna, by Toei, Shin Won and Sam Young, 3) the work went to Shin Won and Sam Young because, according to TV Tropes, Marvel couldn’t afford to keep paying Toei for this show, 4) AKOM (which employed Sam Young) produced six of these 39 eps of “Jem”, according to Wikipedia, 5) Shin Won, according to TV Tropes, worked on specific s2 eps, '''THEN''' the question that could blow this case wide open becomes: '''What if Shin Won was indeed another AKOM subcontractor?''' I said before that Shin Won might not have done anything beyond in-betweening, but that was because I assumed they worked for Toei, but if it was AKOM, then that changes the game. The problem so far is they don’t seem to be working for AKOM in every show said to be theirs, and I’m also ''highly skeptical'' of some of the Shin Won assertions at TV Tropes, but I admit it’s an interesting clue.

===Recycling===
Recycled animation is virtually a dead giveaway for identifying studios. I started with the idea that any ep that reuses animation from Toei could be assumed to be claimed by Toei. I strongly suspected that even if an episode has nothing else from Toei except that Prime animation, then Toei claims it. “Attack of the Autobots” doesn’t seem to have anything else Toei-like, but I'm not sold in either direction yet. Same for "Starscream's Brigade", which is likely a cheap Sei Young product, but has the Prime sequence, and also a Lazerbeak eject sequence actually re-traced from the original shot in the Toei-produced "Changing Gears". I am marking stuff like this in my research. It’s not just Prime: “Golden Lagoon” features stock Toei animation of Omega Supreme; a Bruticus merge is repeated in “Revenge of Bruticus”; certain cassette ejections are repeated in certain episodes; etc.

===Other Eps and Other Shows===
My research spreadsheet has descriptions of certain styles from Toei such as "Traitor" animation and "Immobilizer" animation, so I could try to compare between eps, but I'm watching other shows of the period as well. “G.I. Joe” and “Defenders of the Earth”, as mentioned, are very good study resources. For example, I realized that although “Aerial Assault” is unique for Transformers, this animation (possibly in-house) is in quite a few “Joe” eps (most notably the “Pyramid of Darkness” 5-parter), and I'm now seeing plenty of this work in "Jem" eps. That's another very helpful source. In the case of Sei Young, “Defenders” gives us much more than “Surprise Party” to use as a reference, because they produced so many eps on that show. I’m convinced “Only Human” is a Sei Young product, which would actually reconcile some of the available info. Here’s why: The Toei resume indicates 13 “Part 3” eps, but also indicates a production year of “1987”; that would seem incorrect, unless they either didn’t count “The Return of Optimus Prime” (which aired Feb. ‘87) or didn't work on two of the non-AKOM eps. However, if the two Sei Young eps don’t count as Toei-produced, the numbers check out. Toei’s resume claims only two eps of “Defenders”, so we know Sei Young doesn’t count under Toei in that case. "Starscream's Brigade" is said to be done by Sei Young, and I believe that as well, but on the other hand there is also the Toei Prime animation and evidence of a "retraced" Toei shot of Soundwave, which points to a Toei claim as well. If anyone has evidence of other shows, animes and animation confirmed to be produced by certain studios mentioned here (I already checked AKOM's other stuff), please call to my attention.

'''Case in point on this subject:''' There's been a lot of activity over the past month at TV Tropes (March/April 2023), with a couple members entering a whole lot of G1 animation info. Some of it seems quite legit, some of it harder to believe, and at least one seems to have come from my offhand comment about “G.I. Joe” at "Unknown Studios" (not cool). My spreadsheet now has all this info entered under a new column called “WHO THE HELL SAYS?”, and I don’t know how to begin reconciling because, ''LIKE ALWAYS, this new info has no attribution and no source citation.'' If I had hair on my head, I’d be pulling it right out.

===Ink & Paint===
Folks should keep in mind that “later” stages in animation, such as ink & paint, could be done by other studios. I feel as though certain episodes may have farmed that work out, so when folks, for example, say that “Starscream’s Ghost” is so much better qualitatively than their other s3 works, I don’t see that as much as I see slightly better work enhanced with better ink & paint. In the case of “Only Human”, ink & paint seems to make Sei Young’s animation better than their exact same output for “Surprise Party”. “Return of Optimus” Part 2, IMO, is ''quite terrible'', but with very impressive ink & paint work that I believe makes people think the animation is better than it actually is.

User:JoseBxR

2023-06-17T16:55:06Z

JoseBxR: /* THOSE “Three” */

==About==
Music artist and Media Editor for OverClocked ReMix. 
Creative talent with absolutely no free time to create. 
Maintaining a YouTube channel for multimedia product, but so far is mostly a collection of funny English dubs of martial arts films. 
Animation maven from the prehistoric (before Internet) era. Areas of interest: U.S. theatrical shorts from 1930-1954; U.S. theatrical cel animation; Animation produced in Japan for Japan from 1970-1995; TV animation co-produced in Japan from 1980-1995.

This page is to be a repository for information regarding my research in '''identifying G1 animation works''', and also possibly information on poor G1 English dubbing, perhaps even the music from the series and my issues with presenting so many show oddities as "errors".

==All notes on identifying G1 animation (subject to change)==
Following is pure draft speculation, and is being updated constantly as I uncover new evidence. '''''Nothing is 100 percent, so please do not spread this info elsewhere, unless it's in an episode's discussion tab.''''' Everything so far is mostly attributed to "my own eyes and my own experience", which may be what got us into this mess regarding AKOM's work, but the difference with me is I keep my conclusion-jumping to an absolute minimum. Anyone can feel free to comment and point me to any and all additional, even contradictory, evidence for consideration within the discussion tab. I intend to compile video evidence of animation techniques, movement and styles between episodes '''(eps)''', and present them somewhere for the community, possibly for linking to talk pages.

===Animation Determination As Of May 12, 2023===
'''Season 1 (s1):'''
*16 TOEI and/or TOEI-Outsourced
'''Season 2 (s2):'''
*39 TOEI and/or TOEI-Outsourced
*At least 7 AKOM and/or AKOM-Outsourced
**"[[Auto Berserk]]"
**"[[A Prime Problem]]"
**"[[A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court (episode)|A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court]]"
**"[[Make Tracks]]"
**"[[The Secret of Omega Supreme (episode)|The Secret of Omega Supreme]]"
**"[[Kremzeek!]]"
**"[[Triple Takeover]]"
*3 HANHO HEUNG-UP, possibly produced by MIHAHN
**"[[City of Steel (episode)|City of Steel]]"
**"[[The Autobot Run]]"
**"[[The Core]]"
'''Season 3 (s3):'''
*13 TOEI-Outsourced
*15 AKOM and/or AKOM-Outsourced
*2 SEI YOUNG
**"[[Surprise Party]]"
**"[[Only Human]]"
'''Season 4 (s4):'''
*3 AKOM

===Factual Evidence===
This collection of facts and creator claims is the basis for research on all eps, on the understanding that there may be errors here as well.

AKOM '''claims work on 39 eps''' from the entire series (according to their website)

Toei (according to archived "resume" webpage) '''claims work on'''
*'''all 3 eps''' from pilot miniseries
*'''all 13 eps''' from "Part 1" (season 1)
*'''39 eps''' from "Part 2" (season 2)
*'''13 eps''' from "Part 3" (season 3)

'''The Megna Co-Productions Database''' is quite valuable as a resource for identifying studios, but at the same time as horrifying as any other source for the lack of attributions, bibliography or citations. Major props to member [[User:Danja|Danja]] for the find.

Production materials allude to '''AKOM out-sourcing to Sam Young''' studio. Production materials belonging to Paul Davids indicate '''Sei Young worked on''' "Surprise Party", with no evidence of Toei involvement. Davids also claims some work came from a '''studio in the Philippines'''. There is confirmed evidence of '''storyboards shipped to Korea or Japan''' for preliminary work, which may or may not offer clues on the studio(s) ultimately selected for animation work. '''Nobuyoshi Habara (apparently with Ashi Pro at the time)''' claims work on several episodes; it's unclear which ones based on the episode numbers he offers, but his impressive technique is highly recognizable, which will make it relatively easy to identify episodes. '''Eiji Suganuma''' claims work as animation director on "Call of the Primitives" and says Toei passed work to Studio Look, which in turn passed some work to "International Animation Research Institute". Daewon Media of South Korea confirms on their website that their previous incarnation, '''Dai Won Animation''', has provided OEM work for Marvel's productions as a Toei subcontractor.

===Challenges===
It is admittedly difficult to identify studios in general, and non-Toei animation in particular, as explained below. However, I’m still baffled as to why only three eps out of s2 were readily identified as AKOM, ''and nothing else'', considering that Nelson Shin was supervising producer, his wife was production manager, and especially with so many other eps unidentified. There should have been no “unknown studio” as understood up to this point: if it’s not Toei, then the next reasonable thought would be that ''Nelson got '''his''' people to do it''. Now that we have some numbers out there, any “unknowns” that exist will likely not match the accepted info.

I want to note here: '''the mission for now is to determine which eps are claimed by Toei and which by AKOM, that is, which studio produced key animation''', whether outsourced or in-house, and after I'm satisfied with the result, I'll see if it's possible to look into the various other studios being mentioned, keeping in mind that listing of an extra studio doesn't indicate anything more than involvement, let alone main animation production. I didn’t necessarily wish to go into the weeds of exactly who was outsourced to do which ep, but some of that work will have to be done to the extent of gathering evidence for identifying Toei and AKOM work, and maybe it’s worth trying so that the wiki could be able to link to and track all evidence linking studios to this work.

'''''I need help on citations:''''' This site links to that one tweet about Studio Look, since everyone was dying to know who was behind "Call of the Primitives" (what made you all think it was TMS? LOL), and then there is the archived Toei resume and the aforementioned Megna Database where mentions of "Nakamura", "Dai Won", etc. come from, but the latter is the only place that has apparent authority of any sort, yet still no citations. Sites such as iMDB, TV Tropes and ANN welcome contributions, but with no apparent links to authoritative resources, not even on an "some guy said to me over DMs" level. '''''This is maddening'''''. Anything real that I collect I want to try to get preserved on this page, at least until we have something better established in the community.

Speaking for myself, this process is not as easy when there aren’t enough human characters running around to compare with. Robot characters make it more difficult. Most times you can only rely on mouth movement, a few poses and possibly some special effects, and that’s about it.

The greatest difficulty with identifying AKOM work is that this show is essentially their very first product: Marvel helped establish the studio in South Korea in 1985, and they probably hit the ground running, even though their first official work may be “My Little Pony: the Movie”. There’s almost nothing else from the time period, all the way until “Spiral Zone” in 1987, and by then their style changed significantly in some areas. Still, there are some good clues in that show, ''and they credit the animators''!

Some folks are using “models” as a way of identifying animation. Although bad animation wouldn’t necessarily follow models anyway, and I wouldn’t want us to overthink about how something ''looks'', at the expense of how something ''moves'', this could be helpful in spots. In the case of Hoist, it helps me confirm where there’s a previous suspicion; The “alternate" Hoist model is identified only in eps that I already suspected were done by AKOM.

AKOM's majority of work in s3 is on another level of garbage generally, and IMO it should not be used as any sort of guide for comparing techniques in other seasons or shows. It just doesn't look like anything else out there; it seems to be almost exclusively the work of Sam Young, and I hesitate to even assign blame to AKOM, except for agreeing to outsource work to this bootleg outlet. AKOM ''is'' capable of good animation, even great animation in the view of some. They apparently allowed their dregs to work on s3, but s2 had a few legit awesome sequences. I’m convinced “A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur’s Court” is one of theirs, and it’s arguably their best TF work. By the time s4 came around, AKOM settled on a style similar to most contemporaneous South Korean output, but still characterized by their almost singular sloppy line work.

===THOSE “Three”===
"City of Steel", "The Autobot Run" and "The Core" are in my view very, very obviously produced by some studio out of South Korea employed by Marvel around this time (basically MiHahn and/or Dong Seo, with a Hong Kong outfit called Pan Sang East possibly collaborating with Dong Seo), because the work is virtually identical to work on "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends", as well as other Marvel shows of that period, not to mention several Ruby/Spears productions. “Amazing” explicitly credits an "association" with MiHahn, and “Incredible Hulk” is said to be from Pan Sang East. I have seen credits from either “Hulk” or “Hulk & Spider-Man” that mention Pan Sang East. It’s my guess the "Philippines" remark references something from these ranks, although they're not located there. Those eps are '''not''' AKOM-style to my eyes, and apparently no one has challenged this for a long time. Previously, I didn't rule out the possibility that this unknown studio may have ended up as an AKOM sub-contractor, because we have evidence of AKOM outsourcing due to the Sam Young materials. However, more evidence from Megna leads me to what may be a conclusion.

'''IF it is TRUE that''' 1) Dong Seo worked on “Spider-Friends”, “Hulk”, and several Ruby/Spears shows, 2) Steven Hahn founded MiHahn (which produced for “Spider-Friends” apparently with Dong Seo) in 1984, then founded Hanho Heung-Up soon afterward, out of animators at Dong Seo, 3) MiHahn and Hanho then formed a partnership on several 80’s shows, mostly for Nelvana in Canada, '''THEN''' the animation in “those three” could plausibly have been produced ''after'' the combination of MiHahn/Hanho was in effect, but ''before'' AKOM was formally established in '85, especially considering the talk at TV Tropes that Marvel didn’t want to keep paying Toei. Until I get contradicting info, '''I'm awfully close to concluding that those 3 are “Hanho Heung-Up” or “Mihahn & Hanho Heung-Up” productions.''' Interestingly, Toei and Hanho are said to have worked on "Turbo Teen". I’d still like to know what the deal was with Pan Sang East, tho. (Current suspicion: after working on "Pandamonium" and "Meatballs and Spaghetti", the Hong Kong studio went on to create all the ''awesome'' transformation sequences for "The Incredible Hulk", leaving all other animation in the series to Dong Seo.)

===Overlap?===
Some folks have it right that because one studio claims an ep, it doesn’t preclude other studios laying claim to the same ep. The numbers from Toei and AKOM imply some overlap. I have come to rely on depictions of Megatron for identifying Toei works, and Starscream for identifying AKOM works, but it's not foolproof. I worked out all the Toei claims, stupidly not considering that the community has already done most of that good work, but the AKOM stuff will require much more study, especially since, unlike with Toei, there are no numbers on how many eps they produced for s2. '''Has anyone tried to ask Nelson Shin?''' People have indeed contacted him about possibly releasing his magnum opus “Empress Chung” internationally. Unless AKOM themselves come clean about which 39 eps they are claiming, we may never have a complete resolution. I don’t expect they’ll cooperate after decades of (some undeserved) scorn and ridicule heaped on them by the fandom, but maybe worth a shot?

'''More new evidence to consider. IF it is TRUE that''' 1) Toei, according to their resume, produced 33 out of 39 episodes of “Jem Part 2” (understood to be Seasons 2 and 3), 2) “Jem” was animated, according to Megna, by Toei, Shin Won and Sam Young, 3) the work went to Shin Won and Sam Young because, according to TV Tropes, Marvel couldn’t afford to keep paying Toei for this show, 4) AKOM (which employed Sam Young) produced six of these 39 eps of “Jem”, according to Wikipedia, 5) Shin Won, according to TV Tropes, worked on specific s2 eps, '''THEN''' the question that could blow this case wide open becomes: '''What if Shin Won was indeed another AKOM subcontractor?''' I said before that Shin Won might not have done anything beyond in-betweening, but that was because I assumed they worked for Toei, but if it was AKOM, then that changes the game. The problem so far is they don’t seem to be working for AKOM in every show said to be theirs, and I’m also ''highly skeptical'' of some of the Shin Won assertions at TV Tropes, but I admit it’s an interesting clue.

===Recycling===
Recycled animation is virtually a dead giveaway for identifying studios. I started with the idea that any ep that reuses animation from Toei could be assumed to be claimed by Toei. I strongly suspected that even if an episode has nothing else from Toei except that Prime animation, then Toei claims it. “Attack of the Autobots” doesn’t seem to have anything else Toei-like, but I'm not sold in either direction yet. Same for "Starscream's Brigade", which is likely a cheap Sei Young product, but has the Prime sequence, and also a Lazerbeak eject sequence actually re-traced from the original shot in the Toei-produced "Changing Gears". I am marking stuff like this in my research. It’s not just Prime: “Golden Lagoon” features stock Toei animation of Omega Supreme; a Bruticus merge is repeated in “Revenge of Bruticus”; certain cassette ejections are repeated in certain episodes; etc.

===Other Eps and Other Shows===
My research spreadsheet has descriptions of certain styles from Toei such as "Traitor" animation and "Immobilizer" animation, so I could try to compare between eps, but I'm watching other shows of the period as well. “G.I. Joe” and “Defenders of the Earth”, as mentioned, are very good study resources. For example, I realized that although “Aerial Assault” is unique for Transformers, this animation (possibly in-house) is in quite a few “Joe” eps (most notably the “Pyramid of Darkness” 5-parter), and I'm now seeing plenty of this work in "Jem" eps. That's another very helpful source. In the case of Sei Young, “Defenders” gives us much more than “Surprise Party” to use as a reference, because they produced so many eps on that show. I’m convinced “Only Human” is a Sei Young product, which would actually reconcile some of the available info. Here’s why: The Toei resume indicates 13 “Part 3” eps, but also indicates a production year of “1987”; that would seem incorrect, unless they either didn’t count “The Return of Optimus Prime” (which aired Feb. ‘87) or didn't work on two of the non-AKOM eps. However, if the two Sei Young eps don’t count as Toei-produced, the numbers check out. Toei’s resume claims only two eps of “Defenders”, so we know Sei Young doesn’t count under Toei in that case. "Starscream's Brigade" is said to be done by Sei Young, and I believe that as well, but on the other hand there is also the Toei Prime animation and evidence of a "retraced" Toei shot of Soundwave, which points to a Toei claim as well. If anyone has evidence of other shows, animes and animation confirmed to be produced by certain studios mentioned here (I already checked AKOM's other stuff), please call to my attention.

'''Case in point on this subject:''' There's been a lot of activity over the past month at TV Tropes (March/April 2023), with a couple members entering a whole lot of G1 animation info. Some of it seems quite legit, some of it harder to believe, and at least one seems to have come from my offhand comment about “G.I. Joe” at "Unknown Studios" (not cool). My spreadsheet now has all this info entered under a new column called “WHO THE HELL SAYS?”, and I don’t know how to begin reconciling because, ''LIKE ALWAYS, this new info has no attribution and no source citation.'' If I had hair on my head, I’d be pulling it right out.

===Ink & Paint===
Folks should keep in mind that “later” stages in animation, such as ink & paint, could be done by other studios. I feel as though certain episodes may have farmed that work out, so when folks, for example, say that “Starscream’s Ghost” is so much better qualitatively than their other s3 works, I don’t see that as much as I see slightly better work enhanced with better ink & paint. In the case of “Only Human”, ink & paint seems to make Sei Young’s animation better than their exact same output for “Surprise Party”. “Return of Optimus” Part 2, IMO, is ''quite terrible'', but with very impressive ink & paint work that I believe makes people think the animation is better than it actually is.

Talk:Megatron's Master Plan, Part 2

2023-05-15T23:05:30Z

JoseBxR: /* Cleanup? */

== Cleanup? ==

This is presently looking pretty good to me. Does it need anything else, or can it be taken off the list?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]] 21:56, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
:I cleaned it up a few weeks agao (trust me, it was bad) but I left the tag on in case I missed something. If you haven't seen anything, I say go ahead. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 22:02, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

::It looks like it's only a couple screeencaps from being complete! (I wonder if there ought to be a 'episode pics' template distinct from the general Need Pics template...) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:12, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Re. this:

"Is anyone brave, or ''stupid'' enough, to oppose us? This city is under martial law ... and ''I'' am the marshal!"
:—'''Megatron''' spells doom for the people of Central City ... and makes a funny.

Not sure that this is an intentional joke on Megatron's part. I read it more as: he mainly experiences English by hearing it, not reading it, so he won't know that "martial" and "marshal" are two different words with two different meanings. Thoughts?

::Unless we want to go into the whole matter of how 'Formers either "learned" or "translated" English after their dormancy - not to mention the absurd abuse of exclusively American catchphrases and idioms, even at Cybertron - my guess is the scriptwriter meant for Megatron to "funny", yes. Seems reinforced by Welker's self-satisfied reading of it, as well. But exactly how, though? Amazingly, I don't see a script for this yet, so I dunno if this was meant to be homophone wordplay, or if the writer goofed on the spelling. EDIT: I found the script elsewhere; there ''was'' a spelling screwup, because "martial" is ''not a noun''. Quote: "This city is under Martial Law, and I am the martial!" [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 15:59, 15 May 2023 (EDT)
:::It's not a mistake, it's wordplay. Lou Reed had a song with basically those lyrics, and Patrick Stewart said it in a movie. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 18:07, 15 May 2023 (EDT)
::::Wordplay, and a mistake: "martial" is still not a noun, but I guess everyone understood the ref, even if Glut slipped. The reason I thought to look up the script is because I had a feeling it wasn't going to be correct. Incidentally, the first search result for lyrics to Reed's "Martial Law" misspells "marshal". [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 19:05, 15 May 2023 (EDT)

== Pics? ==

Looks like we do have some pics on tap already-
*[[:Image:Berger DecepticonDay.jpg]]
*[[:Image:Berger Sad Enslaved.jpg]]
*[[:Image:BergerInc SpaceshipLabel.jpg]]
*[[:Image:Decepticon-day-boy.jpg]]

Easy enough to insert those tastefully, no?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]] 22:21, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

:Go for it! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:25, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
::Done. Matched them up as closely as I could recall to the story.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]] 22:33, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

== RBFATE ==
Were Cosmos and Trailbreaker in the big fight in the end? It'd be a nice bit of continuity if they were absent, since they both should have been pretty exhausted by the time the 'bots got back to Earth. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 20:11, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

: I would assume not, as many episode summaries describe the ending like this: "The Autobots return to Earth low on energy, but still manage to defeat the Decepticons.". -- Tricob (05/01/2010) 09:40 P.M. Central Time.

::I see Trailbreaker during the final battle. Also you're answering a question which is over a year old. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 22:48, 1 May 2010 (EDT)

== Easter Egg ==

In the bonus material of the Rhino release, a voice actor claims to have submitted an "Easter Egg" somewhere in one of the episodes, where he substitutes one or two lines of Meagtron's dialog with his voice. This appears to be when Megatron says, "Thrust! Bring him back." Listen closely - his voice not only sounds different, but it isn't modulated, either. This feature seems to be fully intact in the Shout! factory release as well. You'll also find a similar "Easter Egg" in the "Fire On The Mountain" episode, when he says that the power of absolute destruction is his. A third instance of the "Easter Egg" seems to appear in "The Key To Vector Sigma Part 1", where he says the lines, "Alpha Trion, eh? Heh heh! Let's go pay the old fool a visit."

- Tricob (05/01/2010) 09:40 P.M. Central Time.
:That actor is [[Neil Kaplan]], and he's not referring to the G1 cartoon, he's talking about a time he once filled in as ''RiD'' Megatron during the recording of that show (not that anyone's ever identified where that happened either). He didn't figure he was being interviewed for a G1 boxset, because, really, why the hell would he be? Eh, Rhino? - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 11:03, 2 May 2010 (EDT)

Talk:Megatron's Master Plan, Part 2

2023-05-15T19:59:46Z

JoseBxR: /* Cleanup? */

== Cleanup? ==

This is presently looking pretty good to me. Does it need anything else, or can it be taken off the list?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]] 21:56, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
:I cleaned it up a few weeks agao (trust me, it was bad) but I left the tag on in case I missed something. If you haven't seen anything, I say go ahead. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 22:02, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

::It looks like it's only a couple screeencaps from being complete! (I wonder if there ought to be a 'episode pics' template distinct from the general Need Pics template...) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:12, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Re. this:

"Is anyone brave, or ''stupid'' enough, to oppose us? This city is under martial law ... and ''I'' am the marshal!"
:—'''Megatron''' spells doom for the people of Central City ... and makes a funny.

Not sure that this is an intentional joke on Megatron's part. I read it more as: he mainly experiences English by hearing it, not reading it, so he won't know that "martial" and "marshal" are two different words with two different meanings. Thoughts?

::Unless we want to go into the whole matter of how 'Formers either "learned" or "translated" English after their dormancy - not to mention the absurd abuse of exclusively American catchphrases and idioms, even at Cybertron - my guess is the scriptwriter meant for Megatron to "funny", yes. Seems reinforced by Welker's self-satisfied reading of it, as well. But exactly how, though? Amazingly, I don't see a script for this yet, so I dunno if this was meant to be homophone wordplay, or if the writer goofed on the spelling. EDIT: I found the script elsewhere; there ''was'' a spelling screwup, because "martial" is ''not a noun''. Quote: "This city is under Martial Law, and I am the martial!" [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 15:59, 15 May 2023 (EDT)

== Pics? ==

Looks like we do have some pics on tap already-
*[[:Image:Berger DecepticonDay.jpg]]
*[[:Image:Berger Sad Enslaved.jpg]]
*[[:Image:BergerInc SpaceshipLabel.jpg]]
*[[:Image:Decepticon-day-boy.jpg]]

Easy enough to insert those tastefully, no?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]] 22:21, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

:Go for it! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:25, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
::Done. Matched them up as closely as I could recall to the story.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]] 22:33, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

== RBFATE ==
Were Cosmos and Trailbreaker in the big fight in the end? It'd be a nice bit of continuity if they were absent, since they both should have been pretty exhausted by the time the 'bots got back to Earth. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 20:11, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

: I would assume not, as many episode summaries describe the ending like this: "The Autobots return to Earth low on energy, but still manage to defeat the Decepticons.". -- Tricob (05/01/2010) 09:40 P.M. Central Time.

::I see Trailbreaker during the final battle. Also you're answering a question which is over a year old. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 22:48, 1 May 2010 (EDT)

== Easter Egg ==

In the bonus material of the Rhino release, a voice actor claims to have submitted an "Easter Egg" somewhere in one of the episodes, where he substitutes one or two lines of Meagtron's dialog with his voice. This appears to be when Megatron says, "Thrust! Bring him back." Listen closely - his voice not only sounds different, but it isn't modulated, either. This feature seems to be fully intact in the Shout! factory release as well. You'll also find a similar "Easter Egg" in the "Fire On The Mountain" episode, when he says that the power of absolute destruction is his. A third instance of the "Easter Egg" seems to appear in "The Key To Vector Sigma Part 1", where he says the lines, "Alpha Trion, eh? Heh heh! Let's go pay the old fool a visit."

- Tricob (05/01/2010) 09:40 P.M. Central Time.
:That actor is [[Neil Kaplan]], and he's not referring to the G1 cartoon, he's talking about a time he once filled in as ''RiD'' Megatron during the recording of that show (not that anyone's ever identified where that happened either). He didn't figure he was being interviewed for a G1 boxset, because, really, why the hell would he be? Eh, Rhino? - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 11:03, 2 May 2010 (EDT)

Talk:Megatron's Master Plan, Part 2

2023-05-15T19:32:17Z

JoseBxR: /* Cleanup? */

== Cleanup? ==

This is presently looking pretty good to me. Does it need anything else, or can it be taken off the list?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]] 21:56, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
:I cleaned it up a few weeks agao (trust me, it was bad) but I left the tag on in case I missed something. If you haven't seen anything, I say go ahead. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 22:02, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

::It looks like it's only a couple screeencaps from being complete! (I wonder if there ought to be a 'episode pics' template distinct from the general Need Pics template...) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:12, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Re. this:

"Is anyone brave, or ''stupid'' enough, to oppose us? This city is under martial law ... and ''I'' am the marshal!"
:—'''Megatron''' spells doom for the people of Central City ... and makes a funny.

Not sure that this is an intentional joke on Megatron's part. I read it more as: he mainly experiences English by hearing it, not reading it, so he won't know that "martial" and "marshal" are two different words with two different meanings. Thoughts?

::Unless we want to go into the whole matter of how 'Formers either "learned" or "translated" English after their dormancy - not to mention the absurd abuse of exclusively American catchphrases and idioms, even at Cybertron - my guess is the scriptwriter meant for Megatron to "funny", yes. Seems reinforced by Welker's self-satisfied reading of it, as well. But exactly how, though? Amazingly, I don't see a script for this yet, so I dunno if this was meant to be homophone wordplay, or if the writer goofed on the spelling. [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 15:32, 15 May 2023 (EDT)

== Pics? ==

Looks like we do have some pics on tap already-
*[[:Image:Berger DecepticonDay.jpg]]
*[[:Image:Berger Sad Enslaved.jpg]]
*[[:Image:BergerInc SpaceshipLabel.jpg]]
*[[:Image:Decepticon-day-boy.jpg]]

Easy enough to insert those tastefully, no?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]] 22:21, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

:Go for it! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:25, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
::Done. Matched them up as closely as I could recall to the story.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]] 22:33, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

== RBFATE ==
Were Cosmos and Trailbreaker in the big fight in the end? It'd be a nice bit of continuity if they were absent, since they both should have been pretty exhausted by the time the 'bots got back to Earth. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 20:11, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

: I would assume not, as many episode summaries describe the ending like this: "The Autobots return to Earth low on energy, but still manage to defeat the Decepticons.". -- Tricob (05/01/2010) 09:40 P.M. Central Time.

::I see Trailbreaker during the final battle. Also you're answering a question which is over a year old. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 22:48, 1 May 2010 (EDT)

== Easter Egg ==

In the bonus material of the Rhino release, a voice actor claims to have submitted an "Easter Egg" somewhere in one of the episodes, where he substitutes one or two lines of Meagtron's dialog with his voice. This appears to be when Megatron says, "Thrust! Bring him back." Listen closely - his voice not only sounds different, but it isn't modulated, either. This feature seems to be fully intact in the Shout! factory release as well. You'll also find a similar "Easter Egg" in the "Fire On The Mountain" episode, when he says that the power of absolute destruction is his. A third instance of the "Easter Egg" seems to appear in "The Key To Vector Sigma Part 1", where he says the lines, "Alpha Trion, eh? Heh heh! Let's go pay the old fool a visit."

- Tricob (05/01/2010) 09:40 P.M. Central Time.
:That actor is [[Neil Kaplan]], and he's not referring to the G1 cartoon, he's talking about a time he once filled in as ''RiD'' Megatron during the recording of that show (not that anyone's ever identified where that happened either). He didn't figure he was being interviewed for a G1 boxset, because, really, why the hell would he be? Eh, Rhino? - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 11:03, 2 May 2010 (EDT)

User:JoseBxR

2023-05-15T17:28:22Z

JoseBxR: /* Recycling */

==About==
Music artist and Media Editor for OverClocked ReMix. 
Creative talent with absolutely no free time to create. 
Maintaining a YouTube channel for multimedia product, but so far is mostly a collection of funny English dubs of martial arts films. 
Animation maven from the prehistoric (before Internet) era. Areas of interest: U.S. theatrical shorts from 1930-1954; U.S. theatrical cel animation; Animation produced in Japan for Japan from 1970-1995; TV animation co-produced in Japan from 1980-1995.

This page is to be a repository for information regarding my research in '''identifying G1 animation works''', and also possibly information on poor G1 English dubbing, perhaps even the music from the series and my issues with presenting so many show oddities as "errors".

==All notes on identifying G1 animation (subject to change)==
Following is pure draft speculation, and is being updated constantly as I uncover new evidence. '''''Nothing is 100 percent, so please do not spread this info elsewhere, unless it's in an episode's discussion tab.''''' Everything so far is mostly attributed to "my own eyes and my own experience", which may be what got us into this mess regarding AKOM's work, but the difference with me is I keep my conclusion-jumping to an absolute minimum. Anyone can feel free to comment and point me to any and all additional, even contradictory, evidence for consideration within the discussion tab. I intend to compile video evidence of animation techniques, movement and styles between episodes '''(eps)''', and present them somewhere for the community, possibly for linking to talk pages.

===Animation Determination As Of May 12, 2023===
'''Season 1 (s1):'''
*16 TOEI and/or TOEI-Outsourced
'''Season 2 (s2):'''
*39 TOEI and/or TOEI-Outsourced
*At least 7 AKOM and/or AKOM-Outsourced
**"[[Auto Berserk]]"
**"[[A Prime Problem]]"
**"[[A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court (episode)|A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court]]"
**"[[Make Tracks]]"
**"[[The Secret of Omega Supreme (episode)|The Secret of Omega Supreme]]"
**"[[Kremzeek!]]"
**"[[Triple Takeover]]"
*3 HANHO HEUNG-UP, possibly produced by MIHAHN
**"[[City of Steel (episode)|City of Steel]]"
**"[[The Autobot Run]]"
**"[[The Core]]"
'''Season 3 (s3):'''
*13 TOEI-Outsourced
*15 AKOM and/or AKOM-Outsourced
*2 SEI YOUNG
**"[[Surprise Party]]"
**"[[Only Human]]"
'''Season 4 (s4):'''
*3 AKOM

===Factual Evidence===
This collection of facts and creator claims is the basis for research on all eps, on the understanding that there may be errors here as well.

AKOM '''claims work on 39 eps''' from the entire series (according to their website)

Toei (according to archived "resume" webpage) '''claims work on'''
*'''all 3 eps''' from pilot miniseries
*'''all 13 eps''' from "Part 1" (season 1)
*'''39 eps''' from "Part 2" (season 2)
*'''13 eps''' from "Part 3" (season 3)

'''The Megna Co-Productions Database''' is quite valuable as a resource for identifying studios, but at the same time as horrifying as any other source for the lack of attributions, bibliography or citations. Major props to member [[User:Danja|Danja]] for the find.

Production materials allude to '''AKOM out-sourcing to Sam Young''' studio. Production materials belonging to Paul Davids indicate '''Sei Young worked on''' "Surprise Party", with no evidence of Toei involvement. Davids also claims some work came from a '''studio in the Philippines'''. There is confirmed evidence of '''storyboards shipped to Korea or Japan''' for preliminary work, which may or may not offer clues on the studio(s) ultimately selected for animation work. '''Nobuyoshi Habara (apparently with Ashi Pro at the time)''' claims work on several episodes; it's unclear which ones based on the episode numbers he offers, but his impressive technique is highly recognizable, which will make it relatively easy to identify episodes. '''Eiji Suganuma''' claims work as animation director on "Call of the Primitives" and says Toei passed work to Studio Look, which in turn passed some work to "International Animation Research Institute". Daewon Media of South Korea confirms on their website that their previous incarnation, '''Dai Won Animation''', has provided OEM work for Marvel's productions as a Toei subcontractor.

===Challenges===
It is admittedly difficult to identify studios in general, and non-Toei animation in particular, as explained below. However, I’m still baffled as to why only three eps out of s2 were readily identified as AKOM, ''and nothing else'', considering that Nelson Shin was supervising producer, his wife was production manager, and especially with so many other eps unidentified. There should have been no “unknown studio” as understood up to this point: if it’s not Toei, then the next reasonable thought would be that ''Nelson got '''his''' people to do it''. Now that we have some numbers out there, any “unknowns” that exist will likely not match the accepted info.

I want to note here: '''the mission for now is to determine which eps are claimed by Toei and which by AKOM, that is, which studio produced key animation''', whether outsourced or in-house, and after I'm satisfied with the result, I'll see if it's possible to look into the various other studios being mentioned, keeping in mind that listing of an extra studio doesn't indicate anything more than involvement, let alone main animation production. I didn’t necessarily wish to go into the weeds of exactly who was outsourced to do which ep, but some of that work will have to be done to the extent of gathering evidence for identifying Toei and AKOM work, and maybe it’s worth trying so that the wiki could be able to link to and track all evidence linking studios to this work.

'''''I need help on citations:''''' This site links to that one tweet about Studio Look, since everyone was dying to know who was behind "Call of the Primitives" (what made you all think it was TMS? LOL), and then there is the archived Toei resume and the aforementioned Megna Database where mentions of "Nakamura", "Dai Won", etc. come from, but the latter is the only place that has apparent authority of any sort, yet still no citations. Sites such as iMDB, TV Tropes and ANN welcome contributions, but with no apparent links to authoritative resources, not even on an "some guy said to me over DMs" level. '''''This is maddening'''''. Anything real that I collect I want to try to get preserved on this page, at least until we have something better established in the community.

Speaking for myself, this process is not as easy when there aren’t enough human characters running around to compare with. Robot characters make it more difficult. Most times you can only rely on mouth movement, a few poses and possibly some special effects, and that’s about it.

The greatest difficulty with identifying AKOM work is that this show is essentially their very first product: Marvel helped establish the studio in South Korea in 1985, and they probably hit the ground running, even though their first official work may be “My Little Pony: the Movie”. There’s almost nothing else from the time period, all the way until “Spiral Zone” in 1987, and by then their style changed significantly in some areas. Still, there are some good clues in that show, ''and they credit the animators''!

Some folks are using “models” as a way of identifying animation. Although bad animation wouldn’t necessarily follow models anyway, and I wouldn’t want us to overthink about how something ''looks'', at the expense of how something ''moves'', this could be helpful in spots. In the case of Hoist, it helps me confirm where there’s a previous suspicion; The “alternate" Hoist model is identified only in eps that I already suspected were done by AKOM.

AKOM's majority of work in s3 is on another level of garbage generally, and IMO it should not be used as any sort of guide for comparing techniques in other seasons or shows. It just doesn't look like anything else out there; it seems to be almost exclusively the work of Sam Young, and I hesitate to even assign blame to AKOM, except for agreeing to outsource work to this bootleg outlet. AKOM ''is'' capable of good animation, even great animation in the view of some. They apparently allowed their dregs to work on s3, but s2 had a few legit awesome sequences. I’m convinced “A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur’s Court” is one of theirs, and it’s arguably their best TF work. By the time s4 came around, AKOM settled on a style similar to most contemporaneous South Korean output, but still characterized by their almost singular sloppy line work.

===THOSE “Three”===
"City of Steel", "The Autobot Run" and "The Core" are in my view very, very obviously produced by some studio out of South Korea employed by Marvel around this time (basically MiHahn and/or Dong Seo, with a Hong Kong outfit called Pan Sang East possibly collaborating with Dong Seo), because the work is virtually identical to work on "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends", as well as other Marvel shows of that period, not to mention several Ruby/Spears productions. “Amazing” explicitly credits an "association" with MiHahn, and “Incredible Hulk” is said to be from Pan Sang East. I have seen credits from either “Hulk” or “Hulk & Spider-Man” that mention Pan Sang East. It’s my guess the "Philippines" remark references something from these ranks, although they're not located there. Those eps are '''not''' AKOM-style to my eyes, and apparently no one has challenged this for a long time. Previously, I didn't rule out the possibility that this unknown studio may have ended up as an AKOM sub-contractor, because we have evidence of AKOM outsourcing due to the Sam Young materials. However, more evidence from Megna leads me to what may be a conclusion.

'''IF it is TRUE that''' 1) Dong Seo worked on “Spider-Friends”, “Hulk”, and several Ruby/Spears shows, 2) Steven Hahn founded MiHahn (which produced for “Spider-Friends” apparently with Dong Seo) in 1984, then founded Hanho Heung-Up soon afterward, out of animators at Dong Seo, 3) MiHahn and Hanho then formed a partnership on several 80’s shows, mostly for Nelvana in Canada, '''THEN''' the animation in “those three” could plausibly have been produced ''after'' the combination of MiHahn/Hanho was in effect, but ''before'' AKOM was formally established in '85, especially considering the talk at TV Tropes that Marvel didn’t want to keep paying Toei. Until I get contradicting info, '''I'm awfully close to concluding that those 3 are “Hanho Heung-Up” or “Mihahn & Hanho Heung-Up” productions.''' Interestingly, Toei and Hanho are said to have worked on "Turbo Teen". I’d still like to know what the deal was with Pan Sang East, tho.

===Overlap?===
Some folks have it right that because one studio claims an ep, it doesn’t preclude other studios laying claim to the same ep. The numbers from Toei and AKOM imply some overlap. I have come to rely on depictions of Megatron for identifying Toei works, and Starscream for identifying AKOM works, but it's not foolproof. I worked out all the Toei claims, stupidly not considering that the community has already done most of that good work, but the AKOM stuff will require much more study, especially since, unlike with Toei, there are no numbers on how many eps they produced for s2. '''Has anyone tried to ask Nelson Shin?''' People have indeed contacted him about possibly releasing his magnum opus “Empress Chung” internationally. Unless AKOM themselves come clean about which 39 eps they are claiming, we may never have a complete resolution. I don’t expect they’ll cooperate after decades of (some undeserved) scorn and ridicule heaped on them by the fandom, but maybe worth a shot?

'''More new evidence to consider. IF it is TRUE that''' 1) Toei, according to their resume, produced 33 out of 39 episodes of “Jem Part 2” (understood to be Seasons 2 and 3), 2) “Jem” was animated, according to Megna, by Toei, Shin Won and Sam Young, 3) the work went to Shin Won and Sam Young because, according to TV Tropes, Marvel couldn’t afford to keep paying Toei for this show, 4) AKOM (which employed Sam Young) produced six of these 39 eps of “Jem”, according to Wikipedia, 5) Shin Won, according to TV Tropes, worked on specific s2 eps, '''THEN''' the question that could blow this case wide open becomes: '''What if Shin Won was indeed another AKOM subcontractor?''' I said before that Shin Won might not have done anything beyond in-betweening, but that was because I assumed they worked for Toei, but if it was AKOM, then that changes the game. The problem so far is they don’t seem to be working for AKOM in every show said to be theirs, and I’m also ''highly skeptical'' of some of the Shin Won assertions at TV Tropes, but I admit it’s an interesting clue.

===Recycling===
Recycled animation is virtually a dead giveaway for identifying studios. I started with the idea that any ep that reuses animation from Toei could be assumed to be claimed by Toei. I strongly suspected that even if an episode has nothing else from Toei except that Prime animation, then Toei claims it. “Attack of the Autobots” doesn’t seem to have anything else Toei-like, but I'm not sold in either direction yet. Same for "Starscream's Brigade", which is likely a cheap Sei Young product, but has the Prime sequence, and also a Lazerbeak eject sequence actually re-traced from the original shot in the Toei-produced "Changing Gears". I am marking stuff like this in my research. It’s not just Prime: “Golden Lagoon” features stock Toei animation of Omega Supreme; a Bruticus merge is repeated in “Revenge of Bruticus”; certain cassette ejections are repeated in certain episodes; etc.

===Other Eps and Other Shows===
My research spreadsheet has descriptions of certain styles from Toei such as "Traitor" animation and "Immobilizer" animation, so I could try to compare between eps, but I'm watching other shows of the period as well. “G.I. Joe” and “Defenders of the Earth”, as mentioned, are very good study resources. For example, I realized that although “Aerial Assault” is unique for Transformers, this animation (possibly in-house) is in quite a few “Joe” eps (most notably the “Pyramid of Darkness” 5-parter), and I'm now seeing plenty of this work in "Jem" eps. That's another very helpful source. In the case of Sei Young, “Defenders” gives us much more than “Surprise Party” to use as a reference, because they produced so many eps on that show. I’m convinced “Only Human” is a Sei Young product, which would actually reconcile some of the available info. Here’s why: The Toei resume indicates 13 “Part 3” eps, but also indicates a production year of “1987”; that would seem incorrect, unless they either didn’t count “The Return of Optimus Prime” (which aired Feb. ‘87) or didn't work on two of the non-AKOM eps. However, if the two Sei Young eps don’t count as Toei-produced, the numbers check out. Toei’s resume claims only two eps of “Defenders”, so we know Sei Young doesn’t count under Toei in that case. "Starscream's Brigade" is said to be done by Sei Young, and I believe that as well, but on the other hand there is also the Toei Prime animation and evidence of a "retraced" Toei shot of Soundwave, which points to a Toei claim as well. If anyone has evidence of other shows, animes and animation confirmed to be produced by certain studios mentioned here (I already checked AKOM's other stuff), please call to my attention.

'''Case in point on this subject:''' There's been a lot of activity over the past month at TV Tropes (March/April 2023), with a couple members entering a whole lot of G1 animation info. Some of it seems quite legit, some of it harder to believe, and at least one seems to have come from my offhand comment about “G.I. Joe” at "Unknown Studios" (not cool). My spreadsheet now has all this info entered under a new column called “WHO THE HELL SAYS?”, and I don’t know how to begin reconciling because, ''LIKE ALWAYS, this new info has no attribution and no source citation.'' If I had hair on my head, I’d be pulling it right out.

===Ink & Paint===
Folks should keep in mind that “later” stages in animation, such as ink & paint, could be done by other studios. I feel as though certain episodes may have farmed that work out, so when folks, for example, say that “Starscream’s Ghost” is so much better qualitatively than their other s3 works, I don’t see that as much as I see slightly better work enhanced with better ink & paint. In the case of “Only Human”, ink & paint seems to make Sei Young’s animation better than their exact same output for “Surprise Party”. “Return of Optimus” Part 2, IMO, is ''quite terrible'', but with very impressive ink & paint work that I believe makes people think the animation is better than it actually is.

User:JoseBxR

2023-05-15T17:26:36Z

JoseBxR: /* Overlap? */

==About==
Music artist and Media Editor for OverClocked ReMix. 
Creative talent with absolutely no free time to create. 
Maintaining a YouTube channel for multimedia product, but so far is mostly a collection of funny English dubs of martial arts films. 
Animation maven from the prehistoric (before Internet) era. Areas of interest: U.S. theatrical shorts from 1930-1954; U.S. theatrical cel animation; Animation produced in Japan for Japan from 1970-1995; TV animation co-produced in Japan from 1980-1995.

This page is to be a repository for information regarding my research in '''identifying G1 animation works''', and also possibly information on poor G1 English dubbing, perhaps even the music from the series and my issues with presenting so many show oddities as "errors".

==All notes on identifying G1 animation (subject to change)==
Following is pure draft speculation, and is being updated constantly as I uncover new evidence. '''''Nothing is 100 percent, so please do not spread this info elsewhere, unless it's in an episode's discussion tab.''''' Everything so far is mostly attributed to "my own eyes and my own experience", which may be what got us into this mess regarding AKOM's work, but the difference with me is I keep my conclusion-jumping to an absolute minimum. Anyone can feel free to comment and point me to any and all additional, even contradictory, evidence for consideration within the discussion tab. I intend to compile video evidence of animation techniques, movement and styles between episodes '''(eps)''', and present them somewhere for the community, possibly for linking to talk pages.

===Animation Determination As Of May 12, 2023===
'''Season 1 (s1):'''
*16 TOEI and/or TOEI-Outsourced
'''Season 2 (s2):'''
*39 TOEI and/or TOEI-Outsourced
*At least 7 AKOM and/or AKOM-Outsourced
**"[[Auto Berserk]]"
**"[[A Prime Problem]]"
**"[[A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court (episode)|A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court]]"
**"[[Make Tracks]]"
**"[[The Secret of Omega Supreme (episode)|The Secret of Omega Supreme]]"
**"[[Kremzeek!]]"
**"[[Triple Takeover]]"
*3 HANHO HEUNG-UP, possibly produced by MIHAHN
**"[[City of Steel (episode)|City of Steel]]"
**"[[The Autobot Run]]"
**"[[The Core]]"
'''Season 3 (s3):'''
*13 TOEI-Outsourced
*15 AKOM and/or AKOM-Outsourced
*2 SEI YOUNG
**"[[Surprise Party]]"
**"[[Only Human]]"
'''Season 4 (s4):'''
*3 AKOM

===Factual Evidence===
This collection of facts and creator claims is the basis for research on all eps, on the understanding that there may be errors here as well.

AKOM '''claims work on 39 eps''' from the entire series (according to their website)

Toei (according to archived "resume" webpage) '''claims work on'''
*'''all 3 eps''' from pilot miniseries
*'''all 13 eps''' from "Part 1" (season 1)
*'''39 eps''' from "Part 2" (season 2)
*'''13 eps''' from "Part 3" (season 3)

'''The Megna Co-Productions Database''' is quite valuable as a resource for identifying studios, but at the same time as horrifying as any other source for the lack of attributions, bibliography or citations. Major props to member [[User:Danja|Danja]] for the find.

Production materials allude to '''AKOM out-sourcing to Sam Young''' studio. Production materials belonging to Paul Davids indicate '''Sei Young worked on''' "Surprise Party", with no evidence of Toei involvement. Davids also claims some work came from a '''studio in the Philippines'''. There is confirmed evidence of '''storyboards shipped to Korea or Japan''' for preliminary work, which may or may not offer clues on the studio(s) ultimately selected for animation work. '''Nobuyoshi Habara (apparently with Ashi Pro at the time)''' claims work on several episodes; it's unclear which ones based on the episode numbers he offers, but his impressive technique is highly recognizable, which will make it relatively easy to identify episodes. '''Eiji Suganuma''' claims work as animation director on "Call of the Primitives" and says Toei passed work to Studio Look, which in turn passed some work to "International Animation Research Institute". Daewon Media of South Korea confirms on their website that their previous incarnation, '''Dai Won Animation''', has provided OEM work for Marvel's productions as a Toei subcontractor.

===Challenges===
It is admittedly difficult to identify studios in general, and non-Toei animation in particular, as explained below. However, I’m still baffled as to why only three eps out of s2 were readily identified as AKOM, ''and nothing else'', considering that Nelson Shin was supervising producer, his wife was production manager, and especially with so many other eps unidentified. There should have been no “unknown studio” as understood up to this point: if it’s not Toei, then the next reasonable thought would be that ''Nelson got '''his''' people to do it''. Now that we have some numbers out there, any “unknowns” that exist will likely not match the accepted info.

I want to note here: '''the mission for now is to determine which eps are claimed by Toei and which by AKOM, that is, which studio produced key animation''', whether outsourced or in-house, and after I'm satisfied with the result, I'll see if it's possible to look into the various other studios being mentioned, keeping in mind that listing of an extra studio doesn't indicate anything more than involvement, let alone main animation production. I didn’t necessarily wish to go into the weeds of exactly who was outsourced to do which ep, but some of that work will have to be done to the extent of gathering evidence for identifying Toei and AKOM work, and maybe it’s worth trying so that the wiki could be able to link to and track all evidence linking studios to this work.

'''''I need help on citations:''''' This site links to that one tweet about Studio Look, since everyone was dying to know who was behind "Call of the Primitives" (what made you all think it was TMS? LOL), and then there is the archived Toei resume and the aforementioned Megna Database where mentions of "Nakamura", "Dai Won", etc. come from, but the latter is the only place that has apparent authority of any sort, yet still no citations. Sites such as iMDB, TV Tropes and ANN welcome contributions, but with no apparent links to authoritative resources, not even on an "some guy said to me over DMs" level. '''''This is maddening'''''. Anything real that I collect I want to try to get preserved on this page, at least until we have something better established in the community.

Speaking for myself, this process is not as easy when there aren’t enough human characters running around to compare with. Robot characters make it more difficult. Most times you can only rely on mouth movement, a few poses and possibly some special effects, and that’s about it.

The greatest difficulty with identifying AKOM work is that this show is essentially their very first product: Marvel helped establish the studio in South Korea in 1985, and they probably hit the ground running, even though their first official work may be “My Little Pony: the Movie”. There’s almost nothing else from the time period, all the way until “Spiral Zone” in 1987, and by then their style changed significantly in some areas. Still, there are some good clues in that show, ''and they credit the animators''!

Some folks are using “models” as a way of identifying animation. Although bad animation wouldn’t necessarily follow models anyway, and I wouldn’t want us to overthink about how something ''looks'', at the expense of how something ''moves'', this could be helpful in spots. In the case of Hoist, it helps me confirm where there’s a previous suspicion; The “alternate" Hoist model is identified only in eps that I already suspected were done by AKOM.

AKOM's majority of work in s3 is on another level of garbage generally, and IMO it should not be used as any sort of guide for comparing techniques in other seasons or shows. It just doesn't look like anything else out there; it seems to be almost exclusively the work of Sam Young, and I hesitate to even assign blame to AKOM, except for agreeing to outsource work to this bootleg outlet. AKOM ''is'' capable of good animation, even great animation in the view of some. They apparently allowed their dregs to work on s3, but s2 had a few legit awesome sequences. I’m convinced “A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur’s Court” is one of theirs, and it’s arguably their best TF work. By the time s4 came around, AKOM settled on a style similar to most contemporaneous South Korean output, but still characterized by their almost singular sloppy line work.

===THOSE “Three”===
"City of Steel", "The Autobot Run" and "The Core" are in my view very, very obviously produced by some studio out of South Korea employed by Marvel around this time (basically MiHahn and/or Dong Seo, with a Hong Kong outfit called Pan Sang East possibly collaborating with Dong Seo), because the work is virtually identical to work on "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends", as well as other Marvel shows of that period, not to mention several Ruby/Spears productions. “Amazing” explicitly credits an "association" with MiHahn, and “Incredible Hulk” is said to be from Pan Sang East. I have seen credits from either “Hulk” or “Hulk & Spider-Man” that mention Pan Sang East. It’s my guess the "Philippines" remark references something from these ranks, although they're not located there. Those eps are '''not''' AKOM-style to my eyes, and apparently no one has challenged this for a long time. Previously, I didn't rule out the possibility that this unknown studio may have ended up as an AKOM sub-contractor, because we have evidence of AKOM outsourcing due to the Sam Young materials. However, more evidence from Megna leads me to what may be a conclusion.

'''IF it is TRUE that''' 1) Dong Seo worked on “Spider-Friends”, “Hulk”, and several Ruby/Spears shows, 2) Steven Hahn founded MiHahn (which produced for “Spider-Friends” apparently with Dong Seo) in 1984, then founded Hanho Heung-Up soon afterward, out of animators at Dong Seo, 3) MiHahn and Hanho then formed a partnership on several 80’s shows, mostly for Nelvana in Canada, '''THEN''' the animation in “those three” could plausibly have been produced ''after'' the combination of MiHahn/Hanho was in effect, but ''before'' AKOM was formally established in '85, especially considering the talk at TV Tropes that Marvel didn’t want to keep paying Toei. Until I get contradicting info, '''I'm awfully close to concluding that those 3 are “Hanho Heung-Up” or “Mihahn & Hanho Heung-Up” productions.''' Interestingly, Toei and Hanho are said to have worked on "Turbo Teen". I’d still like to know what the deal was with Pan Sang East, tho.

===Overlap?===
Some folks have it right that because one studio claims an ep, it doesn’t preclude other studios laying claim to the same ep. The numbers from Toei and AKOM imply some overlap. I have come to rely on depictions of Megatron for identifying Toei works, and Starscream for identifying AKOM works, but it's not foolproof. I worked out all the Toei claims, stupidly not considering that the community has already done most of that good work, but the AKOM stuff will require much more study, especially since, unlike with Toei, there are no numbers on how many eps they produced for s2. '''Has anyone tried to ask Nelson Shin?''' People have indeed contacted him about possibly releasing his magnum opus “Empress Chung” internationally. Unless AKOM themselves come clean about which 39 eps they are claiming, we may never have a complete resolution. I don’t expect they’ll cooperate after decades of (some undeserved) scorn and ridicule heaped on them by the fandom, but maybe worth a shot?

'''More new evidence to consider. IF it is TRUE that''' 1) Toei, according to their resume, produced 33 out of 39 episodes of “Jem Part 2” (understood to be Seasons 2 and 3), 2) “Jem” was animated, according to Megna, by Toei, Shin Won and Sam Young, 3) the work went to Shin Won and Sam Young because, according to TV Tropes, Marvel couldn’t afford to keep paying Toei for this show, 4) AKOM (which employed Sam Young) produced six of these 39 eps of “Jem”, according to Wikipedia, 5) Shin Won, according to TV Tropes, worked on specific s2 eps, '''THEN''' the question that could blow this case wide open becomes: '''What if Shin Won was indeed another AKOM subcontractor?''' I said before that Shin Won might not have done anything beyond in-betweening, but that was because I assumed they worked for Toei, but if it was AKOM, then that changes the game. The problem so far is they don’t seem to be working for AKOM in every show said to be theirs, and I’m also ''highly skeptical'' of some of the Shin Won assertions at TV Tropes, but I admit it’s an interesting clue.

===Recycling===
Recycled animation is virtually a dead giveaway for identifying studios. I started with the idea that any ep that reuses animation from Toei could be assumed to be claimed by Toei. I strongly suspected that even if an episode has nothing else from Toei except that Prime animation, then Toei claims it. “Attack of the Autobots” doesn’t seem to have anything else Toei-like, but I'm not sold in either direction yet. Same for "Starscream's Brigade", which is likely a cheap Sei Young product, but has the Prime sequence, and also a Lazerbeak eject sequence actually re-traced from the original shot in the Toei-produced "Changing Gears". I am marking stuff like this in my research. It’s not just Prime: “Golden Lagoon” features stock Toei animation of Omega Supreme; a Bruticus merge is repeated in “Aerial Assault”; certain cassette ejections are repeated in certain episodes; etc.

===Other Eps and Other Shows===
My research spreadsheet has descriptions of certain styles from Toei such as "Traitor" animation and "Immobilizer" animation, so I could try to compare between eps, but I'm watching other shows of the period as well. “G.I. Joe” and “Defenders of the Earth”, as mentioned, are very good study resources. For example, I realized that although “Aerial Assault” is unique for Transformers, this animation (possibly in-house) is in quite a few “Joe” eps (most notably the “Pyramid of Darkness” 5-parter), and I'm now seeing plenty of this work in "Jem" eps. That's another very helpful source. In the case of Sei Young, “Defenders” gives us much more than “Surprise Party” to use as a reference, because they produced so many eps on that show. I’m convinced “Only Human” is a Sei Young product, which would actually reconcile some of the available info. Here’s why: The Toei resume indicates 13 “Part 3” eps, but also indicates a production year of “1987”; that would seem incorrect, unless they either didn’t count “The Return of Optimus Prime” (which aired Feb. ‘87) or didn't work on two of the non-AKOM eps. However, if the two Sei Young eps don’t count as Toei-produced, the numbers check out. Toei’s resume claims only two eps of “Defenders”, so we know Sei Young doesn’t count under Toei in that case. "Starscream's Brigade" is said to be done by Sei Young, and I believe that as well, but on the other hand there is also the Toei Prime animation and evidence of a "retraced" Toei shot of Soundwave, which points to a Toei claim as well. If anyone has evidence of other shows, animes and animation confirmed to be produced by certain studios mentioned here (I already checked AKOM's other stuff), please call to my attention.

'''Case in point on this subject:''' There's been a lot of activity over the past month at TV Tropes (March/April 2023), with a couple members entering a whole lot of G1 animation info. Some of it seems quite legit, some of it harder to believe, and at least one seems to have come from my offhand comment about “G.I. Joe” at "Unknown Studios" (not cool). My spreadsheet now has all this info entered under a new column called “WHO THE HELL SAYS?”, and I don’t know how to begin reconciling because, ''LIKE ALWAYS, this new info has no attribution and no source citation.'' If I had hair on my head, I’d be pulling it right out.

===Ink & Paint===
Folks should keep in mind that “later” stages in animation, such as ink & paint, could be done by other studios. I feel as though certain episodes may have farmed that work out, so when folks, for example, say that “Starscream’s Ghost” is so much better qualitatively than their other s3 works, I don’t see that as much as I see slightly better work enhanced with better ink & paint. In the case of “Only Human”, ink & paint seems to make Sei Young’s animation better than their exact same output for “Surprise Party”. “Return of Optimus” Part 2, IMO, is ''quite terrible'', but with very impressive ink & paint work that I believe makes people think the animation is better than it actually is.

User:JoseBxR

2023-05-15T17:21:11Z

JoseBxR: /* Factual Evidence */

==About==
Music artist and Media Editor for OverClocked ReMix. 
Creative talent with absolutely no free time to create. 
Maintaining a YouTube channel for multimedia product, but so far is mostly a collection of funny English dubs of martial arts films. 
Animation maven from the prehistoric (before Internet) era. Areas of interest: U.S. theatrical shorts from 1930-1954; U.S. theatrical cel animation; Animation produced in Japan for Japan from 1970-1995; TV animation co-produced in Japan from 1980-1995.

This page is to be a repository for information regarding my research in '''identifying G1 animation works''', and also possibly information on poor G1 English dubbing, perhaps even the music from the series and my issues with presenting so many show oddities as "errors".

==All notes on identifying G1 animation (subject to change)==
Following is pure draft speculation, and is being updated constantly as I uncover new evidence. '''''Nothing is 100 percent, so please do not spread this info elsewhere, unless it's in an episode's discussion tab.''''' Everything so far is mostly attributed to "my own eyes and my own experience", which may be what got us into this mess regarding AKOM's work, but the difference with me is I keep my conclusion-jumping to an absolute minimum. Anyone can feel free to comment and point me to any and all additional, even contradictory, evidence for consideration within the discussion tab. I intend to compile video evidence of animation techniques, movement and styles between episodes '''(eps)''', and present them somewhere for the community, possibly for linking to talk pages.

===Animation Determination As Of May 12, 2023===
'''Season 1 (s1):'''
*16 TOEI and/or TOEI-Outsourced
'''Season 2 (s2):'''
*39 TOEI and/or TOEI-Outsourced
*At least 7 AKOM and/or AKOM-Outsourced
**"[[Auto Berserk]]"
**"[[A Prime Problem]]"
**"[[A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court (episode)|A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court]]"
**"[[Make Tracks]]"
**"[[The Secret of Omega Supreme (episode)|The Secret of Omega Supreme]]"
**"[[Kremzeek!]]"
**"[[Triple Takeover]]"
*3 HANHO HEUNG-UP, possibly produced by MIHAHN
**"[[City of Steel (episode)|City of Steel]]"
**"[[The Autobot Run]]"
**"[[The Core]]"
'''Season 3 (s3):'''
*13 TOEI-Outsourced
*15 AKOM and/or AKOM-Outsourced
*2 SEI YOUNG
**"[[Surprise Party]]"
**"[[Only Human]]"
'''Season 4 (s4):'''
*3 AKOM

===Factual Evidence===
This collection of facts and creator claims is the basis for research on all eps, on the understanding that there may be errors here as well.

AKOM '''claims work on 39 eps''' from the entire series (according to their website)

Toei (according to archived "resume" webpage) '''claims work on'''
*'''all 3 eps''' from pilot miniseries
*'''all 13 eps''' from "Part 1" (season 1)
*'''39 eps''' from "Part 2" (season 2)
*'''13 eps''' from "Part 3" (season 3)

'''The Megna Co-Productions Database''' is quite valuable as a resource for identifying studios, but at the same time as horrifying as any other source for the lack of attributions, bibliography or citations. Major props to member [[User:Danja|Danja]] for the find.

Production materials allude to '''AKOM out-sourcing to Sam Young''' studio. Production materials belonging to Paul Davids indicate '''Sei Young worked on''' "Surprise Party", with no evidence of Toei involvement. Davids also claims some work came from a '''studio in the Philippines'''. There is confirmed evidence of '''storyboards shipped to Korea or Japan''' for preliminary work, which may or may not offer clues on the studio(s) ultimately selected for animation work. '''Nobuyoshi Habara (apparently with Ashi Pro at the time)''' claims work on several episodes; it's unclear which ones based on the episode numbers he offers, but his impressive technique is highly recognizable, which will make it relatively easy to identify episodes. '''Eiji Suganuma''' claims work as animation director on "Call of the Primitives" and says Toei passed work to Studio Look, which in turn passed some work to "International Animation Research Institute". Daewon Media of South Korea confirms on their website that their previous incarnation, '''Dai Won Animation''', has provided OEM work for Marvel's productions as a Toei subcontractor.

===Challenges===
It is admittedly difficult to identify studios in general, and non-Toei animation in particular, as explained below. However, I’m still baffled as to why only three eps out of s2 were readily identified as AKOM, ''and nothing else'', considering that Nelson Shin was supervising producer, his wife was production manager, and especially with so many other eps unidentified. There should have been no “unknown studio” as understood up to this point: if it’s not Toei, then the next reasonable thought would be that ''Nelson got '''his''' people to do it''. Now that we have some numbers out there, any “unknowns” that exist will likely not match the accepted info.

I want to note here: '''the mission for now is to determine which eps are claimed by Toei and which by AKOM, that is, which studio produced key animation''', whether outsourced or in-house, and after I'm satisfied with the result, I'll see if it's possible to look into the various other studios being mentioned, keeping in mind that listing of an extra studio doesn't indicate anything more than involvement, let alone main animation production. I didn’t necessarily wish to go into the weeds of exactly who was outsourced to do which ep, but some of that work will have to be done to the extent of gathering evidence for identifying Toei and AKOM work, and maybe it’s worth trying so that the wiki could be able to link to and track all evidence linking studios to this work.

'''''I need help on citations:''''' This site links to that one tweet about Studio Look, since everyone was dying to know who was behind "Call of the Primitives" (what made you all think it was TMS? LOL), and then there is the archived Toei resume and the aforementioned Megna Database where mentions of "Nakamura", "Dai Won", etc. come from, but the latter is the only place that has apparent authority of any sort, yet still no citations. Sites such as iMDB, TV Tropes and ANN welcome contributions, but with no apparent links to authoritative resources, not even on an "some guy said to me over DMs" level. '''''This is maddening'''''. Anything real that I collect I want to try to get preserved on this page, at least until we have something better established in the community.

Speaking for myself, this process is not as easy when there aren’t enough human characters running around to compare with. Robot characters make it more difficult. Most times you can only rely on mouth movement, a few poses and possibly some special effects, and that’s about it.

The greatest difficulty with identifying AKOM work is that this show is essentially their very first product: Marvel helped establish the studio in South Korea in 1985, and they probably hit the ground running, even though their first official work may be “My Little Pony: the Movie”. There’s almost nothing else from the time period, all the way until “Spiral Zone” in 1987, and by then their style changed significantly in some areas. Still, there are some good clues in that show, ''and they credit the animators''!

Some folks are using “models” as a way of identifying animation. Although bad animation wouldn’t necessarily follow models anyway, and I wouldn’t want us to overthink about how something ''looks'', at the expense of how something ''moves'', this could be helpful in spots. In the case of Hoist, it helps me confirm where there’s a previous suspicion; The “alternate" Hoist model is identified only in eps that I already suspected were done by AKOM.

AKOM's majority of work in s3 is on another level of garbage generally, and IMO it should not be used as any sort of guide for comparing techniques in other seasons or shows. It just doesn't look like anything else out there; it seems to be almost exclusively the work of Sam Young, and I hesitate to even assign blame to AKOM, except for agreeing to outsource work to this bootleg outlet. AKOM ''is'' capable of good animation, even great animation in the view of some. They apparently allowed their dregs to work on s3, but s2 had a few legit awesome sequences. I’m convinced “A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur’s Court” is one of theirs, and it’s arguably their best TF work. By the time s4 came around, AKOM settled on a style similar to most contemporaneous South Korean output, but still characterized by their almost singular sloppy line work.

===THOSE “Three”===
"City of Steel", "The Autobot Run" and "The Core" are in my view very, very obviously produced by some studio out of South Korea employed by Marvel around this time (basically MiHahn and/or Dong Seo, with a Hong Kong outfit called Pan Sang East possibly collaborating with Dong Seo), because the work is virtually identical to work on "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends", as well as other Marvel shows of that period, not to mention several Ruby/Spears productions. “Amazing” explicitly credits an "association" with MiHahn, and “Incredible Hulk” is said to be from Pan Sang East. I have seen credits from either “Hulk” or “Hulk & Spider-Man” that mention Pan Sang East. It’s my guess the "Philippines" remark references something from these ranks, although they're not located there. Those eps are '''not''' AKOM-style to my eyes, and apparently no one has challenged this for a long time. Previously, I didn't rule out the possibility that this unknown studio may have ended up as an AKOM sub-contractor, because we have evidence of AKOM outsourcing due to the Sam Young materials. However, more evidence from Megna leads me to what may be a conclusion.

'''IF it is TRUE that''' 1) Dong Seo worked on “Spider-Friends”, “Hulk”, and several Ruby/Spears shows, 2) Steven Hahn founded MiHahn (which produced for “Spider-Friends” apparently with Dong Seo) in 1984, then founded Hanho Heung-Up soon afterward, out of animators at Dong Seo, 3) MiHahn and Hanho then formed a partnership on several 80’s shows, mostly for Nelvana in Canada, '''THEN''' the animation in “those three” could plausibly have been produced ''after'' the combination of MiHahn/Hanho was in effect, but ''before'' AKOM was formally established in '85, especially considering the talk at TV Tropes that Marvel didn’t want to keep paying Toei. Until I get contradicting info, '''I'm awfully close to concluding that those 3 are “Hanho Heung-Up” or “Mihahn & Hanho Heung-Up” productions.''' Interestingly, Toei and Hanho are said to have worked on "Turbo Teen". I’d still like to know what the deal was with Pan Sang East, tho.

===Overlap?===
Some folks have it right that because one studio claims an ep, it doesn’t preclude other studios laying claim to the same ep. The numbers from Toei and AKOM imply some overlap. I have come to rely on depictions of Megatron for identifying Toei works, and Starscream for identifying AKOM works, but it's not foolproof. I worked out all the Toei claims, stupidly not considering that the community has already done most of that good work, but the AKOM stuff will require much more study, especially since, unlike with Toei, there are no numbers on how many eps they produced for s2. '''Has anyone tried to ask Nelson Shin?''' People have indeed contacted him about possibly releasing his magnum opus “Empress Chung” internationally. Unless AKOM themselves come clean about which 39 eps they are claiming, we may never have a complete resolution. I don’t expect they’ll cooperate after decades of (some undeserved) scorn and ridicule heaped on them by the fandom, but maybe worth a shot?

'''More new evidence to consider. IF it is TRUE that''' 1) Toei, according to their resume, produced 33 out of 39 episodes of “Jem Part 2” (understood to be Seasons 2 and 3), 2) “Jem” was animated, according to Megna, by Toei, Shin Won and Sam Young, 3) the work went to Shin Won and Sam Young because, according to TV Tropes, Marvel couldn’t afford to keep paying Toei for this show, 4) AKOM (which employed Sam Young) produced six of these 39 eps of “Jem”, according to Wikipedia, 5) Shin Won, according to TV Tropes, worked on specific eps of “Transformers” Season 2, '''THEN''' the question that could blow this case wide open becomes: '''What if Shin Won was indeed another AKOM subcontractor?''' I said before that Shin Won might not have done anything beyond in-betweening, but that was because I assumed they worked for Toei, but if it was AKOM, then that changes the game. The problem so far is they don’t seem to be working for AKOM in every show said to be theirs, and I’m also ''highly skeptical'' of some of the Shin Won assertions at TV Tropes, but I admit it’s an interesting clue.

===Recycling===
Recycled animation is virtually a dead giveaway for identifying studios. I started with the idea that any ep that reuses animation from Toei could be assumed to be claimed by Toei. I strongly suspected that even if an episode has nothing else from Toei except that Prime animation, then Toei claims it. “Attack of the Autobots” doesn’t seem to have anything else Toei-like, but I'm not sold in either direction yet. Same for "Starscream's Brigade", which is likely a cheap Sei Young product, but has the Prime sequence, and also a Lazerbeak eject sequence actually re-traced from the original shot in the Toei-produced "Changing Gears". I am marking stuff like this in my research. It’s not just Prime: “Golden Lagoon” features stock Toei animation of Omega Supreme; a Bruticus merge is repeated in “Aerial Assault”; certain cassette ejections are repeated in certain episodes; etc.

===Other Eps and Other Shows===
My research spreadsheet has descriptions of certain styles from Toei such as "Traitor" animation and "Immobilizer" animation, so I could try to compare between eps, but I'm watching other shows of the period as well. “G.I. Joe” and “Defenders of the Earth”, as mentioned, are very good study resources. For example, I realized that although “Aerial Assault” is unique for Transformers, this animation (possibly in-house) is in quite a few “Joe” eps (most notably the “Pyramid of Darkness” 5-parter), and I'm now seeing plenty of this work in "Jem" eps. That's another very helpful source. In the case of Sei Young, “Defenders” gives us much more than “Surprise Party” to use as a reference, because they produced so many eps on that show. I’m convinced “Only Human” is a Sei Young product, which would actually reconcile some of the available info. Here’s why: The Toei resume indicates 13 “Part 3” eps, but also indicates a production year of “1987”; that would seem incorrect, unless they either didn’t count “The Return of Optimus Prime” (which aired Feb. ‘87) or didn't work on two of the non-AKOM eps. However, if the two Sei Young eps don’t count as Toei-produced, the numbers check out. Toei’s resume claims only two eps of “Defenders”, so we know Sei Young doesn’t count under Toei in that case. "Starscream's Brigade" is said to be done by Sei Young, and I believe that as well, but on the other hand there is also the Toei Prime animation and evidence of a "retraced" Toei shot of Soundwave, which points to a Toei claim as well. If anyone has evidence of other shows, animes and animation confirmed to be produced by certain studios mentioned here (I already checked AKOM's other stuff), please call to my attention.

'''Case in point on this subject:''' There's been a lot of activity over the past month at TV Tropes (March/April 2023), with a couple members entering a whole lot of G1 animation info. Some of it seems quite legit, some of it harder to believe, and at least one seems to have come from my offhand comment about “G.I. Joe” at "Unknown Studios" (not cool). My spreadsheet now has all this info entered under a new column called “WHO THE HELL SAYS?”, and I don’t know how to begin reconciling because, ''LIKE ALWAYS, this new info has no attribution and no source citation.'' If I had hair on my head, I’d be pulling it right out.

===Ink & Paint===
Folks should keep in mind that “later” stages in animation, such as ink & paint, could be done by other studios. I feel as though certain episodes may have farmed that work out, so when folks, for example, say that “Starscream’s Ghost” is so much better qualitatively than their other s3 works, I don’t see that as much as I see slightly better work enhanced with better ink & paint. In the case of “Only Human”, ink & paint seems to make Sei Young’s animation better than their exact same output for “Surprise Party”. “Return of Optimus” Part 2, IMO, is ''quite terrible'', but with very impressive ink & paint work that I believe makes people think the animation is better than it actually is.

Talk:Unknown Generation 1 animation studios

2023-05-13T23:51:02Z

JoseBxR: /* I'm on a mission to identify all AKOM eps and it's quite a chore (update below) */

I did wonder about [http://www.philippinebusiness.com.ph/archives/magazine/vol9-2002/9-3/industry_p2.htm this news item] which [[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] linked to on the [[Talk:Toei Animation|Talk:Toei]] page, which seems to suggest that it was Toei's Filipino branch. But that were only set up in 1986, unless they're wrong about the date... --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:48, 7 July 2009 (EDT)
::Yeah, I forgot about that little nugget. I added it to the article, though since the dates don't match up, we can't be certain, I suppose. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 18:37, 7 July 2009 (EDT)

The current reference link for Burbank is a 404. --[[User:Flicky1991|flicky]][[User talk:Flicky1991|1991]] 14:38, 10 February 2016 (EST)

== Maybe it was Burbank Animation? ==

Maybe this studio was Burbank Animation? The studio was a Philippine division of Burbank Films Australia, based out of Makati, and multiple people who worked there mentioned several Marvel shows on their resume, including My Little Pony, Jem and Defenders of the Earth.--[[Special:Contributions/71.142.249.86|71.142.249.86]] 01:13, 4 November 2009 (EST)
:Indeed! And it was set up in 1983, so it'd fit the time period. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 02:04, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::[http://www.burbankanimation.com/ Burbank's official website] doesn't list any of their farmed-out work for other studios, unfortunately. IMDB doesn't even list their work prior to 1989. Then again, that site just seems to be focused on their Australian division with no mention of their Filipino joint. [http://asianjournal.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/filipinos-on-top-of-hollywood-animation/ This article] says the Filipino studio was founded in 1983, but I can't find anything listing the shows they've worked on. Any way we can get a link to interviews with some of those Burbank employees who said they worked on Marvel/Sunbow productions? --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 08:55, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::: I found a "Boy Sibulo Aureliano" who lists Transformers in his resume, and he wa an animator for Burbank Animations from '83 to '88. I've sent him an email. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 14:08, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::::Awesome. I know only, like, 4 people are going to end up caring, but if we manage to solve this mystery I think it'll be really, really cool. After that, we'll just have to find a way to figure out what 7 episodes from season 2 they animated. That might actually be even ''harder'' to figure out. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 14:10, 4 November 2009 (EST)
:::::Stuff like this is why the wiki exists. First we get more information on the horribly awesome (or awesomely horrible) Headmasters dub, and now the possibility of this. Fall's shaping up to be grand here. --[[User:Bluestreak7|Bluestreak7]] 14:18, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::::::Stuff like this is only going to help the wiki. (And hurt the server.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:29, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::If we can get some more names from people working for Burbank's Filipino division during hte 80s, we might be able to find their online resumes and hit paydirt. I've found [http://www.cristofani.com/resume.html a couple] [http://www.linkedin.com/in/jocelynsy so far], though none of the ones I've found list Transformers under the shows they worked on. We might be able to get lucky, though. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 14:34, 4 November 2009 (EST)
:::Keep trying. Figuring this out = this site gets a little more famous = this site gets a little more hits = this site climbs up in search engine rankings = the Squid caching system dies. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:37, 4 November 2009 (EST)
:I think Burbank is probably the most likely choice. I've been rooting around on Google and found [http://dirp3.pids.gov.ph/ris/taps/tapspp0102.pdf this PDF document] which says that the first animation company to open in the Philippines was Burbank in 83, followed by a company called Optifex and then Fil-Cartoon over the next couple of years. From various CVs and other sites I've found, Optifex was exclusively doing out-sourced work for Hanna-Barbera until 88, when Hanna-Barbera opened Fil-Cartoon as a wholly owned subsidiary and Optifex was left doing domestic animation before rebranding. So that only really leaves Burbank, who multiple people list as having worked on Jem, MLP and DotE on their CVs. Of course the other possibility is that Paul Davids was mistaken in saying that any of Transformers was sent to the Philippines and confused it with these other shows out-sourcing there. [[User:Danja|Danja]] 06:56, 14 July 2011 (EDT)
Ok, '''definitely not Burbank'''. I sent a Facebook message to Jess Espanola, currently an assistant director on the Simpsons and formerly an animator at Burbank at the time the episodes were animated and he actually replying, saying "We didn't do any Transformer shows at Burbank. Maybe Toei Animation studio did it because Toei had a subsidiary studio ijn the Philippines". [[User:Danja|Danja]] 04:54, 15 September 2011 (EDT)
:Quite out of the blue I got another Facebook message from Jess Espanola. He was in the Philippines last month and while seeing friends at Toei's Philippines branch asked about Transformers production (which is pretty awesome of him). The manager, Nestor Palabrica, confirmed that Toei Philippines did Transformers animation in '86 (so season three). Is this the first confirmation of Toei's Philippines branch working on G1? It might explain Davids' comments/memories. [[User:Danja|Danja]] 08:42, 20 June 2012 (EDT)
::Hey, uh, should this Toei stuff not be on the page? It seems to be the biggest lead we have... --[[User:Flicky1991|flicky]][[User talk:Flicky1991|1991]] 14:21, 30 June 2013 (EDT)
:::I think this has to be another mistaken recollection. The website says it was established in ''November'' 1986 - ''well'' after all of season 3 would have been produced. Literally the only thing it could refer to would be "The Return of Optimus Prime," which would mean its work is indistinguishable from Toei proper. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 19:08, 10 February 2016 (EST)
::::The original article that credited Toei's Philippine branch with working on Transformers also mentioned G.I. Joe (presumably only the Marvel/Sunbow version), the final episodes of which were broadcast in November 1986, which really messes things up! I checked the credits to the Joe movie, the only production released after this date, and there're no names or credits with an obvious Philippine connection, but there are a boatload of Japanese staff names credited under Toei. Therefore my suspicion is that the founding date of the studio genuinely might be off, and it's possible that they could actually have done some Transformers episodes prior to "The Return of Optimus Prime".

::::Being a Toei branch, I would expect them to have copies of the correct character models. Plus, Toei's old website indicated they were responsible for the animation for all 95 episodes of the original Joe series. Therefore, if the Philippine branch actually animated any of those Joe episodes, as is suggested in that article, Toei still counted it as their work. The same would have to apply to Transformers. I don't necessarily think any of the thirteen season 3 episodes most closely identified with Toei were done in the Philippines, as they generally have a higher standard of animation than many of Toei's season 2 episodes. An example of a very likely candidate for a prior episode that might have been animated by them would be "Starscream's Ghost".

::::Another possibility to muddy the waters further is that the "Transformers" credited to Toei's Philippine branch could actually have been episodes some of the later three Japanese-exclusive series. That article mentioned G.I. Joe, but also undisputed anime series Dragon Ball Z and Sailor Moon. There's a fair number of artistic variations to be found in the G1 anime episodes, particularly in Masterforce, where there are a few episodes that aren't *quite* up to scratch when it comes to character renditions.

::::Whoever the mysterious third studio was, I don't think it was Toei's Philippine branch. - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 20:06, 12 February 2016 (EST)

== [[Hasbro Q&A]] ==

Anyone tried the [[Hasbro Q&A]] yet? Maybe that ''might'' help. If no-one has, can somebody do that in the next Q&A? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 10:44, 11 June 2010 (EDT)
:No one has yet. Would Hasbro even have that information? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:59, 11 June 2010 (EDT)
:Maybe they don't.But it would be helpful if they can tell us pretty much ''anything'' whatsoever. That's better than what we have now. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 01:51, 12 June 2010 (EDT)

==Identification criteria?==

I just noticed that some while back, a user identified which episodes from season 2 were done by the Filipino studio. For the record, what visual criteria was used to identify those episodes, so I can make a note of it in the article? --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 12:10, 11 July 2013 (EDT)

==Is there any proof at all about Philippine animation?==
We're basing all of this on one writer's (who wasn't even involved in the animation production of the show) vague 30 year old recollection? I think it's very presumptuous to attribute those episodes to this likely non-existent studio. Japanese wikipedia lists Japanese studio Anime R ([[wikipedia:ja:アニメアール|アニメアール]]) as working on the show and also Korean studio [[Dai Won Animation Co.|Daewon Animation]] ([[wikipedia:ja:テウォンメディア|大元動画]]); it's more likely either of these studios did those episodes as they both worked on American cartoons during the '80s.{{unsigned|Evan1975}}

== I might have cracked it ==

If you didn't catch my edit to Inferno's article earlier today, I observed that his different head design (with a more rounded helmet, softer features, and differently-colored head fins) occurred in both "[[Auto Berserk]]" and "[[Kremzeek!]]", two episodes we'd previously suspected of being done by this mystery studio. Following this line of thought, I've done more studying, I think I might actually have spotted some visual clues that identify this studio's episodes. First off, "[[Make Tracks]]" also features Inferno's alternate head design. Further, all these episodes have a common trait - they soften the faces of new 1985 characters, by changing lines that are supposed to run from the points of their eyes down to their chins into more curved "cheekbone-ish" contours, making their faces look more like they're "one piece", instead of the collection of angled planes Toei normally do. "[[Triple Takeover]]" is another that's I've spotted that does this. Check out these comparisons of Red from "Auto-Berserk" and Astrotrain from "Triple Takeover" next to their angular, Toei faces from "The God Gambit":

[[File:Cheekbonescomparison.jpg|300px]]

I literally never noticed Astrotrain's grey helmet in this episode before, and I thought it could be another indicator to look for, but can't find any other instance of it. Adding in "[[A Prime Problem]]", which conventional wisdom has always held is animated by the same team as "[[Auto Berserk]]", that's five of the eight episodes. I've got more examining to do, but I really think I might be onto something with this - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 16:49, 12 January 2016 (EST)

:I think there were only 7 non-Toei, non-AKOM episodes from season 2, so you're even closer than you think. The onion in the ointment though is whether or not more than 7 episodes have traces of those clues. It could mean that Toei and the unknown studio did sections of the same episode (not unheard of) but that only makes things muddier. Keep us updated! --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 17:08, 12 January 2016 (EST)
::Just curious, but what's the criteria for picking "Prime Problem" out as a non-Toei episode? I recall The Guy We Had to Wipe From History had selected it, too. I don't recall it looking particularly unToei-like and the overall lack of season 2 characters to give the "cheekbone test" to makes it even harder. It also has little moments of nice animation, if I recall correctly, and the cited episodes like "Triple Takeover" and "Kremzeek" were all much more listless or just plain fugly. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 17:16, 12 January 2016 (EST)
:::It goes back to Zobovor. Both it and "Auto Berserk" have moments of pretty incomparable fluidity, and a general softness of line and warmth of colour about them. They both have scenes where a soft white "airbrush" effect is used to create a metallic effect that I don't know I've seen anywhere else in the show. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 17:21, 12 January 2016 (EST)
::::Gotcha. Now, I hate to even suggest this but... There's no guarantee that the 7 uncreditted episodes were ALL done by the same studio. There's a chance that multiple studios could have done them, hence why some seem to look better than others. OR, they could have ALL been done by the same studio like we've assumed, but different directors resulted in different looks and feels (like those season 1 episodes such as "Roll For It" that look super duper anime, while others don't look it at all). Working blind like this kinda sucks. I'm kind of wondering if we should change this article to something like "Unknown Generation 1 animation studio" rather than assume they were all done by the Filipino place (which may not have even been in the Philippines based on recent contention). --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 17:26, 12 January 2016 (EST)
:::::Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, to be honest. Fiddling around with this article to explain the sheer ambiguity of the whole thing would be a good move. If nothing else, I feel very confident about Inferno's alternate head being the biggest, most easily-spotted visual identifier. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]])
::::::OH-HO-HO!! I think I found another! In "Make Tracks," Tracks is coloured a bit differently to normal - in robot mode, he has black windows instead of clear ones, and his wheels are the same grey as his arms and legs, instead of the darker shade they normally are. Now, "Make Tracks" has the alternate Inferno head design, so I thought this alternate color model could be another hallmark to look out for, and after some searching, it appears in only one other episode - "The Secret of Omega Supreme", another famously shoddy one that was suspected of being non-Toei! That's six.... one more to suss out!! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 15:56, 22 January 2016 (EST)
:::::::It's always been a difficult exercise to try and identify the non-Toei, non-AKOM episodes of season 2, particularly since Toei clearly had multiple teams of animators working on the series. We know Toei did all of season 1 for instance, but there's a wild variation of animation styles and quality to be seen in those 16 episodes. Thus, the difference between a poorly animated Toei episode and one of the Filipino-animated episodes is not necessarily that distinct (such as the really shoddy Toei animation in "Divide and Conquer" or "The Ultimate Doom Part 1").
:::::::Two episodes not mentioned that I used to be fairly sure were animated by the Filipino studio are "[[War Dawn (episode)|War Dawn]]" and "[[Starscream's Brigade]]"; the style in both of them is just a little too off at times, particularly in the latter episode, even accounting for Toei's quality range. I agree that another suspect episode was "[[The Secret of Omega Supreme (episode)|The Secret of Omega Supreme]]", and as an added bonus, Astrotrain has his grey helmet in that episode too. His helmet is purple in "Starscream's Brigade", but they might have had access to the correct colour model by then.
:::::::That takes us to eight episodes, so the one I'd be tempted to knock off the list would be "A Prime Problem"; it's not up to standard efforts clearly from Toei, but other than the "airbrush" effect I wouldn't be quite as quick to identify it as one of the Filipino episodes, but instead a sub-par Toei effort.
:::::::From a real-world perspective, it probably makes sense that there would be a smattering of episodes from this studio produced roughly mid-to-late range in season 2, when Toei would also have been assigning animators to the Movie. - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 17:07, 22 January 2016 (EST)
::::::::I, too, considered "Starscream's Brigade," because it has that very soft, warm look, but I've discounted it because Grapple and Astrotrain (and following today's discovery, yep, Tracks) have the correct color models in it. We know from Akom's series-long goofs, it just wasn't likely that updated versions of these things got sent around. I DID miss that Astrotrain has the alternate helmet in "Secret," though!
::::::::Although it's certainly the case with "Secret" or "Kremzeek," I don't really think of "sub-par" as being a way of defining the non-Akom/Toei episodes. "A Prime Problem" and "Auto Berserk" have some really beautiful moments of fluid, high-frame rate stuff in them (the auto-scout weaving between the crytals, the missile shooting down the corridor into the bunker) that I don't know I can think of a really comparable example of from a Toei episodes. I spotted something similar in "Make Tracks" today, when Sideswipe tackles Ravage, that ties them together for me. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 17:20, 22 January 2016 (EST)
:::::::::For "sub-par", I'd refer to the actual character renderings rather than the fluidity of the animation itself, as the AKOM episodes are well-known for having some exceptionally fluid animated sequences. I still strongly suspect "Starscream's Brigade" was one of their episodes and that they simply had the colour models all updated by then. Personally, I wouldn't say it's necessarily a given that just because AKOM never received the correct colour models that the Filipino studio also never did, especially if they were a Toei subcontractor. Anyway, that's my take on it! - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 18:41, 22 January 2016 (EST)
:::::::::::I can't deny, I keep coming back to "Brigade," because it does have that soft-lined quality. But I'd still say "Prime Problem" or "Auto Berserk" have better character renderings than a low-end Toei episode! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 18:49, 22 January 2016 (EST)
I've been going through the suspect episodes again, and another colour-identifier to watch out for is Thrust; his shoulders and air intakes in robot mode are consistently red in every single shot he appears in both "Auto Berserk" and "Triple Takeover".

There's also a semi-recurrent error with Starscream's eyes occasionally being blue in "Auto Berserk", "Triple Takeover", and "Starscream's Brigade", but it's not quite as compelling an argument.

It's from 2012, but Zob [https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.toys.transformers/ro0LGSJfMD4/5M6uQVXqtqIJ| posted a list] on ATT (where else?) of his take on the non-Toei, non-AKOM episodes of season 2. Zob's list includes both "A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court" and "Hoist Goes Hollywood", which *really* look like Toei efforts.

Between us all, there's a consensus that "Make Tracks", "The Secret of Omega Supreme", "Kremzeek!" and "Triple Takeover" are almost certainly all non-Toei, non-AKOM episodes, and although Zob didn't include it in his list, observations on the episode make it pretty clear that "Auto Berserk" should also be included for a total 5 episodes identified.

Therefore, between all the lists, that would leave the remaining two episodes to probably be among "A Prime Problem", "War Dawn", or "Starscream's Brigade". Not much new here, but thought it worth noting! - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 17:56, 7 February 2016 (EST)
:OOh, good spot with Thrust's shoulders! I wonder what Zob was seeing "Hoist Goes Hollywood"? I can ''sort'' of see "Decepticon Raider" and "Brigade" we've talked about, but not that one. I think I'm going to put the five we've agreed upon up on the article, though. And also, move the article to a better name. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 14:22, 9 February 2016 (EST)
::Excellent work so far, as always! In the meantime, I've gone through the suspect episodes again, and I now agree with you on "A Prime Problem", and think the remaining episode is very probably "War Dawn". One of the smoking guns is the use (or lack thereof) of Toei-originated stock animation. That is, an episode featuring *two* Optimus Primes somehow doesn't use his stock transformation sequence at any point?

::Prime's stock transformation sequence does appear in "Starscream's Brigade", and they also tinker with it slightly as he gets in a whole line before actually transforming, so they clearly had access to the original cels. Every other episode that ever used the sequence was clearly a Toei-animated episode, so I think "Brigade" may just be one of their episodes assigned to a lesser team, like "Divide and Conquer" (which we know was a Toei episode).

::And of the episodes that didn't use Prime's transformation animation, this leaves "War Dawn" as the only other one that isn't in the same style as Toei's main animation teams. The aforementioned lack of season 2 characters makes this one really tough to 100% identify, but it's notable that the top of Slingshot's head is consistently white in every single shot, and we've seen before that the unknown studio were nothing if not consistent with their non-standard colours for newer characters. I know that particular error also cropped up in Toei episodes (most particularly "Aerial Assault"), but never for the entire episode, let alone one actually focussing on the Aerialbots. Yes, there's some Toei-looking shots in the episode, but these could have been retakes picked up by them later. - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 19:53, 9 February 2016 (EST)
:::Oh NICE, I would NOT have thought to look for Prime's stock footage! Actually, let's crunch the numbers on that out in the open here on the talk page for everyone playing along at home.
:::Okay, so, thanks to the Cybertron Chronicle's records of it, we know that the only season 2 episodes that DON'T have the stock footage in them are (taking its use in any two-parters as evidence that both parts were done by the same studio): "City of Steel," "The Autobot Run," "A Prime Problem," "The Core," "The Master Builders," "Auto Berserk," "Microbots," "Decepticon Raider," "Golden Lagoon," "God Gambit," "Make Tracks," "Quest for Survival," "Secret of Omega Supreme," "Kremzeek," "Sea Change," "Triple Takeover," "Prime Target," "Auto Bop," "Girl Who Loved Powerglide," "Hoist Goes Hollywood," "Aerial Assault," "War Dawn," "Trans Europe Express," "Cosmic Rust," and "BOT."
:::From that list, we can remove "City of Steel," "The Autobot Run," "The Core," "Auto Berserk," "Make Tracks," "Secret of Omega Supreme," "Kremzeek," and "Triple Takeover" as being the work of AKOM or ones we have definitely identified as "unknown studio" episodes based on the presence of outdated character models.
:::So then, going through the remaining episodes with that list of outdated character models as reference, we can eliminate the following episodes based on the fact the characters appear ''correctly'' in them: "The Master Builders" (Grapple, Inferno, and Tracks), "Microbots" (Smokescreen), "Golden Lagoon" (Thrust), "God Gambit" (Astrotrain), "Quest for Suvival" (Tracks, Smokescreen, and Grapple), "Sea Change" (Astrotrain), "Prime Target" (Astrotrain, Inferno, Grapple, and Tracks), "Auto Bop" (Tracks), "Girl Who Loved Powerglide" (Thrust), "Hoist Goes Hollywood" (Tracks, Astrotrain, and Thrust), "Trans Europe Express" (Tracks and Smokescreen), and "Cosmic Rust" (Astrotrain, Tracks, Smokescreen, and Inferno).
:::That leaves our only ''possible'' contenders as "A Prime Problem," "Decepticon Raider," "Aerial Assault," "War Dawn," and "BOT." "A Prime Problem" is visually quite distinct from all of these and I think we all agree it must be one of them. "BOT can be ruled out, as it features Ironhide using the generic Autobot laser pistol design, which only appears in Toei episodes. "Aerial Assault" is definitely ''way'' too good to be anything but a Toei episode, so that only leaves "Raider" and "War Dawn," but focusing on Slingshot's white skullcap, I checked out all his season 3 appearances, and he appears with it in ''every'' one of them animated by AKOM, which ''screams'' "outdated character model." Add that consistent use to the generally slipshod "War Dawn" (which also lacks the generic laser pistol, arming Ironhide and Ratchet with grey versions of Optimus's gun instead) and yes, I do believe we have our seven episodes!
:::Jon, what are you thoughts on my supposition that "Starscream's Ghost" and "Only Human" are also this studio's work? - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 06:57, 10 February 2016 (EST)
::::Aside from the general competence of animation being higher than an average AKOM episode, I've always had suspicions about both episodes, and before Toei's website put the numbers up I seriously thought "Only Human" could have been one of theirs. I remember Rik Bakke also saying he had a production schedule that claimed Toei animated "Starscream's Ghost", casting more suspicion on that episode, although we now know neither episode is from Toei, as the numbers literally don't add up.

::::Based on further observations, "Starscream's Ghost" and "Only Human" do look to be from the same animators as each other. I concentrated on Rodimus as he's one of the few characters prominently seen in both episodes. His spoiler is invariably depicted as being mostly horizontal rather than angled/curved (when seen from the front) in AKOM or Toei episodes. The tyres on his upper arms also seem to be coloured red quite often (like in the Toei episodes), but with the hub cap still rendered white (like the AKOM episodes). Most tellingly, his rifle is coloured the same way between both episodes, whereas otherwise it's either black (Toei) or red (AKOM).

::::One quirk both episodes share with clear AKOM episodes is the use of outdated colour schemes, as with Galvatron's pink (rather than purple "underpants". They also share with AKOM the colouring of the inside of the season 3 characters' mouths. Plus, the centre of the square just below Perceptor's chest is coloured red in AKOM episodes, as well as in "Starscream's Ghost" (it's only one shot, but it's there) and "Only Human". This is particularly notable, as in "The Secret of Omega Supreme", he has his correct colour scheme seen in Toei productions, with the square being coloured completely white. Starscream's colourful back, with the orange back cowling and blue engines, isn't seen in any other episode.

::::Another observation from the same episode is that Galvatron transforms twice, and each time this occurs, his particle cannon correctly detaches itself from his arm and joins back with him once he's transformed. AKOM really liked to "cheat" this, with the cannon being either being "swallowed up" in his transformation or simply falling out of shot, never seen to be reattaching itself. Only rarely was this depicted correctly outside of a Toei episode (although amazingly, one example can be seen in "Carnage in C-Minor").

::::Given the prominent and consistent use of outdated character designs and generally much higher-quality animation, I think it makes for a compelling argument that these two were not in fact animated by AKOM. If not for their use of blatantly outdated models, the same sort of confusion that we've seen with the seven season 2 episodes might have also applied to these two when comparing to Toei's efforts. Whether it was actually the same studio as the unknown one that worked on season 2 may still be up for debate however (why did they suddenly start using AKOM's colours for Perceptor?). But one of the biggest supporting factors, aside from animation quality, is probably their propensity for adding lips to the characters, like in their last pre-Movie episode, "War Dawn".

::::Between the shared colour schemes with AKOM, and AKOM's own episode-long use of Cyclonus's alternate character model in "The Rebirth Part 2", it's easy to see why these two episodes were lumped in with AKOM's work for years.

::::And on that note, it makes it all the more compelling an argument that maybe "Carnage in C-Minor" might not have been animated by AKOM after all either. AKOM tended to be consistent with their incorrect colour models, so it doesn't entirely make sense that for this one episode they suddenly started correctly colouring the inside of all the season 3 characters' mouths grey in every shot. AKOM look to have only stopped colouring the characters' mouths in the following season's "The Rebirth".

::::From a numbers point-of-view, it might make some sense that for season 3, Toei and AKOM both got 13 episode (i.e. a season's worth) orders, with the remaining episodes divided up into another three unknown studios. AKOM's work was bad, but there was a limit to how bad it got. "Carnage in C-Minor" is way underneath even AKOM's worst work.

::::Oh, and as a final observation I noticed two Thrusts show up with his alternate colour scheme in "Thief in the Night", if that's worth noting! - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 20:02, 12 February 2016 (EST)
:::::I find the thing I look for in particular on Rodimus is the extra trapezoid on his crotch, which isn't part of his "early" animation model, and so comes and goes from AKOM episodes depending what a particular scene is animated using. They ''always'' use the early ''colors'', though, like Galvatron (whose early model isn't very different and really quite tricky to spot), so it's never colored in, and that's made me miss it more than once when it's there. The curved tips to his shoudlers are probably a better "tell." His gun is that odd color scheme in some parts of FFoD too, as I recall.
:::::(Actually, speaking of Galvatron's early model, I ''think'' he might spend ''all'' of "Starscream's Ghost" in it.)
:::::The Perceptor thing might not be ''that'' unusual - there's at least one scene in "Triple Takeover" where Astrotrain has his purple helmet, and another in "Secret of Omega" too. If this is only one scene in "Starscream's Ghost," I ''feeeeel'' like it's maybe negligible for our purposes.
:::::It's sounding like it might be a good idea to move this page to "Unknown Generation 1 animation studio'''s'''", so we can detail all of this on it. That "thirteen episode" theory makes an ''aaaaawful'' lot of sense...
:::::I also spotted the red Thrusts after you pointed them out in the other episodes, and I went looking to see if AKOM did them too! AKOM ''also'' used grey-helmet Astrotrain consistently, I discovered! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 20:40, 12 February 2016 (EST)
===A sudden twist!===
But wait! Could it be! I've just discovered that ''Hoist'' also has an early color model! In Toei episodes, the hinge in the centre of his chest is solid orange, and his tyres are white on the circular side, and black on the edge. On his outdate model, only the outermost points of his chest hinge are orange, with the central piece being green (which is actually-toy accurate), and his tyres are completely white (which is not). Like the others, this model appears in the original advert for the toy... in "Auto Berserk"... in "Kremzeek!"... '''aaaand'''... in "Decepticon Raider"!!!! Coooooould just be we've made the wrong call on "War Dawn" - the only potential monkey wrench is that for the three shots of "Kremzeek!" he appears in, Hoist is in his outdated model for two of them, but his finalized model for one, but then, that happens with Astrotrain in other episodes too. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 17:17, 16 February 2016 (EST)
:I am consistently impressed and intimidated by your thoroughness to this endeavor. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 17:21, 16 February 2016 (EST)
::As am I. Say, it sounds like most of the 2nd year Autobot Cars have alternate models...have you tried checking [[Skids (G1)|Skids]]'s appearance in [[Triple Takeover]] for differences with his other appearance in [[Quest for Survival]]? Perhaps he had different models as well, aseeing as how he's grouped with them (sort of). Just a thought. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep|talk]]) 18:07, 16 February 2016 (EST)
:::I haven't mentioned it as we're already certain about "Triple Takeover," but he does, actually! His Toei color model is a bit piecemeal anyway, as it colors parts that ought to be the same shade of blue in a mixture of dark and pale blues. In "TT," his robot mode appearances are all tiny figures in the distance, but his windows are light instead of dark, and the top of his chest is consistently the lighter blue, compared to the darker blue it was in "Quest."
:::Red Alert also has an alternate model, but it's barely worth noting, as "Auto Berserk" is on the only "unknown studio" episode he appears in, and the only difference is that they colour him bright white instead of off-white. But that ''does'' mean that all the '85 cars have early models; I suspect these were drawn up for the commercial that starred all of them (except Skids), and were later refined. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 19:00, 16 February 2016 (EST)
::::Yes, another good catch on Hoist! The 1985 Autobot Cars commercial that his, and the other alternate models appear in, is definitely the key. I haven't seen the clearer copy that's on Youtube before now, but taking a closer look, the clear airbrushed look on Optimus Prime does look atypical for Toei's work. I wonder if the other studio animated this ad?
::::There are elements of "Raider" that do still look like Toei work, such as the faces of the human cast in multiple shots. Could this be circumstantial evidence that the other studio may have been a Japanese one? Plus the inclusion of an in-joke referencing Dungeons & Dragons (26 of its 27 episodes animated by Toei) is another element that originally threw the scent off. "Hank" may have been included in the original storyboards by a Marvel staffer, or perhaps by the same studio who did the one non-Toei D&D episode (I don't know which one it is, but it's a first season episode according to the old Toei website).
::::If Hoist's other model literally appears in no other episode that we've identified as being a Toei episode, then "Raider" *has* to be included in the list of non-Toei ones. "War Dawn" is the obvious suspect to remove, but Slingshot's persistently white skullcap is still a noteworthy anomaly. If we're agreed it's a Toei episode, then it may very well have been done by the same low-rent team that did "Starscream's Brigade".
::::With all the animation and production memorabilia collectors out there, it would be nice if *someone* had documentation that proved *something* - most crucially, the names of the other studios! - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 19:04, 17 February 2016 (EST)
:::::My only qualm with the Unknown Studio being Japanese in origin is all the bad Japanese text seen in "Kremzeek!" There's the possibility that the Unknown Studio farmed those backgrounds out to one of the Korean sub studios like Dai Won that did in-betweening and photography work, but that's getting so nitty-gritty we'd never be able to figure it out. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 10:15, 18 February 2016 (EST)
:::::Oh YEAH, look at that! I didn't look closely at Prime before but yeah, there's the airbrushing from "Auto Berserk" and "A Prime Problem!" You know, it makes an extra little touch of sense that "A Prime Problem" would be the first episode to be done by this studio, if they did this commercial, being that it's the first one to feature any new 1985 product - in the script from the Ron Friedman auction, there are even deleted scenes that show it was supposed to introduce Inferno and Ramjet as well.
:::::Y'know, I took a quick look, and Slingshot's even got his white skullcap in "Call of the Primitives." Added to the times it popped up in Toei episodes, if this was an early model (and it probably was since AKOM used it all the time), it seems like it must have made it pretty late in there. Like maybe his full-body model had the white head and his close-up head turnaround had the orange - two models that would have co-existed at Toei, and so the studio would have had them both at the same time and gone back and forth between them, but the head turnaround wouldn't likely have made it out to AKOM. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 12:05, 18 February 2016 (EST)

AND HERE'S ANOTHER!! Thinking about "Decepticon Raider" and Warpath, I remembered the inconsistency we have noted on his article about what his face did when he talked, and thought there could be something to check there. So, yes, for my sins, I have just checked... sigh... every single piece of season 2 Warpath dialogue outside of "Raider"... and they are ALL in Toei episodes, and ALL* of the episodes in which his face is shown (because he delivers a LOT of his dialogue in tank mode, and from off-screen), he has the glowing blue slats. It's only in "Raider" that his mouthplate jiggles (and taking a second look, it actually only does ''that'' in one or two scenes, not moving otherwise) which seems to me to be more evidence it's done by the Unknown Studio.

(*Mitigating circumstances for "Quest for Survival," in which Warpath does not have the slats, but the only line he speaks while his face is on-screen in the episode is the partial finishing-off of a sentence begun from off-screen, which I think is enough to mitigate them not doing the effect. His plate certainly doesn't jiggle either.) - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:48, 18 February 2016 (EST)

==That's some good work, Lou==

I didn't follow half of your sleuthing, but I believe it, so good job Chris and Jon. With the 7 episodes more or less pinpointed, do you want to update the Season 2 info boxes to state the unknown studio definitively and not just "Toei (maybe)"? --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 12:53, 18 February 2016 (EST)
::Hey, thanks, Chief! I feel pretty good about going ahead and doing that. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:48, 18 February 2016 (EST)

== Carnage in C-Minor ==

Feeling like I'm on a roll, I decided to go back to Jon's suggestion that "Carnage in C-Minor" might not have been an AKOM episode, but the work of another unknown studio, since it's ''so'' bad, and lacks AKOM's characteristic interior-mouth coloring. I don't know that I've found anything useful yet - Soundwave's still in the wrong color scheme, Devastator still uses his oudated color model, like normal AKOM episodes, but I thought Broadside might be one to look at, since his outdated model extends to his alternate forms, rather than just his robot mode. "Carnage" was his first robot mode appearance, but when AKOM animated him again in "Grimlock's New Brain," they used his finalized model, and if we've learned anything from this endeavour, it's that studios that weren't Toei didn't get updated materials. So here's what I found: in "The Killing Jar," Broadside appears only in jet mode, but it's the jet mode from his finalized model. In "Thief in the Night," he appears only in carrier mode; in his first scene, it's a conglomerate of both his early and finished models - the hull of his early model, but the communications tower of his finished model (they have different dishes) - but in his second, transporting the Autobots, it's all the old model. And in "Carnage," both his robot and jet are from the early model... but the carrier is from the ''finished'' model. So... no, I don't know what to make of that at all. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 05:42, 20 February 2016 (EST)

==Companies mentioned on animenewsnetwork.com==

Has anyone looked into the companies listed as having worked, uncredited, in the animation for the Transformers TV series according to animenewsnetwork.com ? According to them, Anime R, Ashi Productions, Kaname Production, Nakamura Production, and TMS Entertainment (Tokyo Movie Shinsha) all did so.
:Firstly, ANN isn't always an accurate source of information thanks to it being user-contributed like this wiki. So information isn't always accurate to a fault. Second, most of those companies, save Ashi, are already on the main page listed as support studios. While we can't rule out anything based on what little information we actually have on the studios to begin with, I'd highly doubt they'd be hired by anyone else but Toei to work on the series. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 20:04, 10 December 2018 (EST)

== Ashi Productions ==

The page for "[[Call of the Primitives]]" says based on the staff and timing, the episode was likely animated by this company, [[Ashi Productions]]? They don't seem to be based in the Philippines, but as a Toei subcontractor would they be a contender for this studio? - [[User:TFfan1|TFfan1]], March 29 2020, 11:09 PST
:The animation style of "Call of the Primitives" is completely different from any of the episodes we've attributed to this studio, so unlikely. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 14:14, 29 March 2020 (EDT)

== Sei Young Animation Co ==

A possibility worth exploring is Korean company Sei Young Animation Co. Marvel used them for 63 episodes of Defenders Of The Earth in 1985 and 1986. They had a very Toei-esque style, having collaborated with them at various points since 1978. It would make sense if the purpose of sending 10 episodes to other studios in season 2, apart from the immediate benefit of taking pressure off Toei, was a test run before commissioning these studios full-time on other shows (AKOM would gradually become Marvel's primary animator). [[User:Greebtron|Greebtron]] ([[User talk:Greebtron|talk]]) 20:18, 21 April 2020 (EDT)
: I think you might be on to something here, at least with a few of the uglier looking episodes like "Kremzeek". It reminds me a bit of the feel and quality seen in some Toei-associated episodes of the time like "Child's Play" or "The Gambler". Heck, it actually wouldn't surprise me if Sei Young actually did those episodes too (under contract of Toei and not Marvel directly, of course). But that's just my thoughts on the matter, anyway. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 19:43, 20 July 2020 (EDT)

== (Season 3) Toei's 13th episode? ==

So I was skimming through the Season 3 episode articles because this was bothering me, but since "Surprise Party" was recently found out to be a Sei Young episode, that leaves Toei with only twelve confirmed Season 3 episodes, even though their resume says they did thirteen.

So my theories are:

1. Either "Surprise Party" was a Toei episode that Sei Young worked on (which would be expected giving their working relationship) and Sei Young simply sent Marvel the finished episode in Toei's place (I don't know the ins-and-outs of outsourcing animation but I think it's a possibility), leaving "Call of the Primitives" the weird outlier.

OR

2. "Surprise Party" was directly assigned to Sei Young, and "Call of the Primitives" was assigned to Toei, and Toei decided to subcontract the work to another studio (possibly Ashi Productions, going by the trivia note on the episode page). We know AKOM did the same thing with "Starscream's Ghost" and "Only Human", so it's not without precedent.

I could just be rambling nonsense, and the edit to the "Surprise" article was very recent, but I felt this needed to be brought up. --[[User:TheAmazingPoncho|TheAmazingPoncho]] ([[User talk:TheAmazingPoncho|talk]]) 21:33, 28 July 2020 (EDT)

== A possibility, perhaps? ==

So seeing how we finally found out that "Call' was a Toei episode farmed to another company ([[Studio Look]]), it got me wondering about Ashi Pro's involvement in the series regarding their work on the show and I found [https://w.atwiki.jp/sakuga/?cmd=word&word=%E3%83%88%E3%83%A9%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B9%E3%83%95%E3%82%A9%E3%83%BC%E3%83%9E%E3%83%BC&type=&pageid=309 this]. It mentions both Habara's involvement on "Heavy Metal War" and Ashi's overall work on the show to his best recollection. The other episodes featured are labeled as "3, 8, 13, 22 and 32". Problem number 1 is that it's difficult as to what order the list is referring to as the English and Japanese broadcast airings are different to both.

Going by the English order, the episodes consist of "More Than Meets the Eye, Part 3", "S.O.S. Dinobots", "The Ultimate Doom, Part 3", "The Imobilizer" and "The Master Builders". Whereas in Japanese, while the first episode is identical, the other ones in that order consists of "War of the Dinobots", "Traitor", "A Prime Problem" and "The God Gambit". Problem no. 2 with that is with the Japanese order, which just straight on Toei or Korean-contracted-under-Toei titles (barring "Prime Problem", which we know is the work of the still-unidentified mystery studio), so I assume the page meant the original English order, which by extension marks "Roll For It" as a possible Ashi episode due to the similarities between it and "S.O.S." But again, that order is also pretty suspect as neither "Imobilizer" or "Master Builders" look anything like an Ashi-contracted episode and more like one of the Toei-supervised Korean episodes of Season 2.

Still, thought this was interesting all things considered. Any thoughts? [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 17:14, 12 September 2020 (EDT)
:What if you exclude the More Than Meets the Eye miniseries from the enumeration? It was produced separately, after all. What are episodes 3, 8, 13, 22, and 32 then? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 19:00, 12 September 2020 (EDT)
:And could it only be referring to Season 2? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 19:03, 12 September 2020 (EDT)
::Now that's the million dollar question I want to know the answer to, as the page I linked to considers it and the rest of Season 1 as one entity and not two separately produced batches. Not to mention this very wiki doesn't seem to discern the difference either and lumps the pilot in with the rest of the series, so I'm mostly basing my speculations towards that. Also, I think the count is for both, Seasons 1 and 2 if we take that into consideration. Only thing to do now is either ask Habara for clarification or wait until production sheets for the first two seasons surface before making better judgement.[[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 11:43, 14 September 2020 (EDT)
:::Seasons 1 and 2 use the same format of production codes, but the pilot is separate. The pilot is codes 4023, 4024, and 4025. Season 1 proper runs from 700-01 to 700-13 and Season 2 runs from 700-16 to 700-64. You have to go to the individual episode pages to get these, though. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 11:49, 14 September 2020 (EDT)
::::3 = [[Divide and Conquer]], 8 = [[The Ultimate Doom, Part 1]], 13 = [[Heavy Metal War]], 22 = [[The Autobot Run]], and 32 = [[Auto Berserk]], based on production codes.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 10:56, 21 September 2020 (EDT)
:::::And that makes no sense we we already know The Autobot Run is very obviously AKOM, which again brings up the question of what the source I found is exactly meaning with its episode order. There's also the fact that the page seem to explicitly mention Heavy Metal War's order in both versions of the series (10 in Japanese, 16 in the original US). So I don't really know what to think.[[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 14:29, 26 September 2020 (EDT)

== Asking Dery ==

This might be opening a ''terrible'' idea (I've read his talk page), but do you think if anyone could get a hold of Floro Dery he could shed some light on this? He was a design supervisor and ''might'' have some info? I also have no idea if he's lived in the Philippines for all this time but if he was in the animation scene around then he might have a better idea of what studios were operating at the time that could've been the illusive studio. [[User:TransFormersfan1|TransFormersfan1]] ([[User talk:TransFormersfan1|talk]]) 13:18, 2 December 2020 (EST)

== Another Possibility ==

Been sitting on this for a while now, but a thought crossed my mind fairly recently. With the reveal that Sei Young was the one responsible (or at least credited for) Surprise Party, it got me to thinking- What if one or more of the episodes attributed to this unknown studio are actually Sei Young's work? Comparing their work on Surprise Party or even Season 2 episodes credited to Toei like Child's Play or The Master Builders to say, Kremzeek or Triple Takeover, they look pretty similar. Call me crazy, but I certainly feel I might have stumbled onto something. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 21:25, 23 January 2021 (EST)

== A Possible Suggestion ==

I know this is probably a longshot, but has anyone actually asked any of the show's animators on the Japanese side of things? Not many of the US-based crew seem willing to answer (presuming they even have the materials to begin with), but I feel like if anyone could get in touch with an animator from the Japan side of the coin. We could hopefully get a better idea as to who did what episode. The problem though, from what I see is two-fold. The first is that I wouldn't know which among us would even know enough Japanese to properly ask the question in the first place. The second is whether or not said animators would even remember working on the show to begin with (assuming they did in the first place). Especially since for most of them it'd be among their first credits, and animators who were active during the 1980s usually seem to ignore that period where Japan got most of America's animation outside of some exceptions. Either way though, I think it'd be worth an attempt if nothing more. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 01:16, 15 July 2022 (EDT)

==Shin Won?==

I tweeted to the Wiki account and [[User:Chris_McFeely|Chris McFeely]] about this last year and promptly forgot all about it, but it's a possible lead. The [https://web.archive.org/web/20211201064759/https://digilander.libero.it/dottor_vaffa/ Megna Co-Productions database] lists the following studios as having worked on Transformers: Toei, Sei Young, Dai Won, Shin Won, Sam Young and Akom. Most of those are accounted for here, except Shin Won, so I did some digging.

According to the [https://www.kmdb.or.kr/db/per/00003442 Korean Movie Database] they were known as "Educational Fairy Tale" (or just Gyoyuk, which I guess is Korean for educational fairy tale - I'm using Google Translate for most of this) until 1986, when they became Shin Won and then "Production Grimi" in the late 90s. They're now defunct, it seems. Their [https://web.archive.org/web/20030215231041fw_/http://www.grimi.co.kr/index02.html official website circa 2003] (thanks to the Wayback Machine) has them claiming credit for work on various anime, Transformers, GI Joe, Jem, Real Ghostbusters, Dennis and, crucially, Teddy Ruxpin. Checking back on Megna, the Shin Won is the ''only'' studio attributed to Teddy Ruxpin. The [https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/company.php?id=1361 Anime News Network] profile for them has them credited on different shows with everything from "colour co-ordination check" to in-betweening to finish animation to paint to just "animation". So while it's entirely possible their contribution to Transformers was out-source assistance work to Toei or Akom, like Dai Won and Sam Young, that variety of contributions and Teddy Ruxpin suggests they're capable of producing entire episodes independently and so could be the mystery studio.

There are potential issues with this of course. First is that Wikipedia credits Teddy Ruxpin to Atkinson Film-Arts (along with DiC), who I don't know enough about to know whether they animated in-house or out-sourced the main work uncredited. Megna doesn't mention Atkinson at all for Teddy Ruxpin. Second is that Megna doesn't cite its sources, although Shin Won's own website is presumably the source in this case. Would they have reason to lie? Seems unlikely, but can't be ruled out, I guess. I suppose the acid test would be watching some Teddy Ruxpin. [[User:Danja|Danja]] ([[User talk:Danja|talk]]) 07:02, 26 January 2023 (EST)

:It's possible, That database is weird when it comes to listing outsourcing studios. And given how little we know about the studios in question (acid testing is how I was able to deduce some of the efforts of Anime R, Nakamura Pro, and Studio Look for Toei's episodes since two of them --R and Look-- lack websites and the third --Nakamura Pro-- ''has'' a website, but lacks a proper resume thanks to all the work they've done), it's possible we might have Shin Won doing an episode or two on their own. And if so, I can see them handling "Krmezeek", "Triple Takeover" and "The Secret of Omega Supreme" at least, leaving "Make Tracks", "A Prime Problem" and "Auto-Berserk" the remaining outliers if that is the case.

:As far as Teddy Ruxpin is concerned, Atkinson handled most of the pre-production services. The animation, as per usual with DiC, went to Asian studios uncredited (no idea if this tied into union rules being exploited like with Marvel, or DiC just being dicks), so Shin Won being involved might be something to look into so we can try and acid wash some of their episodes. Again, it bites not having the proper documentation for these things.[[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 05:18, 4 February 2023 (EST)

UPDTATE (since I forgot this thought initially): Is it possible that Shin Won also worked on some of the uglier-looking Toei episodes as well? I'm looking over some of the more infamous ones like "Child's Play" and "Starscream's Brigade" (credited to both Nakamura Pro and Sei Young alongside Toei currently; though I have my doubts about the Korean studio's involvement going over it), and it certainly feels like "Kremzeek" and "Triple Takeover" both have similar faults as the other episodes I just mentioned. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 13:25, 14 February 2023 (EST)

:Speaking of acid tests, that's exactly what I did regarding "Teddy Ruxpin", so I'll mention that I had no help there. Good news is, the Megna database seems to be the most accurate resource to date, so I count this and the fact that most of our "research material" is readily available on youtube as the two most important breakthroughs. Bad news, at least as far as "Teddy" is concerned, is that Megna may only be listing Korean OEM in this case, so stuff has to be missing. "Teddy" makes no sense in that some episodes are clearly done in Japan and some in Korea, but they list a "Kazumi Fukushima" as "animation director" or "animation consultant", but also credit "key animation" to a bunch of people with ''Western'' and ''European'' names! What?!? I was much more successful after watching "Jem", because there are only 11 episodes not produced by Toei, they look quite a bit different from the rest, but also have, to my eyes, no similarity whatsoever to anything on "Transformers". I feel comfortable saying that Shin Won could not have done anything above the level of in-between work. [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 19:40, 7 May 2023 (EDT)

==I'm on a mission to identify all AKOM eps and it's a chore==

Longtime G1 fan, 1st time caller here. I can't say much now, because I have zero free time, but I'm just starting a couple of huge projects relating to a library of G1 episodes I'm editing for my personal collection, and it would likely be of interest to the community here. One project is heavy research on who did what animation. This started because I've been away from the fandom for decades, and noticed recently a hell of a lot of errors in information regarding the animation studios involved. This has been going on since I came across Hasbro Pulse TF eps on youtube several months ago, and you will see tons of comments left by me saying basically those 3 episodes (you know the ones) were absolutely NOT by AKOM, and a bunch of other mistaken assumptions came out of that mistaken assumption. It's amazing that no one seemed to make the connection to other, earlier Marvel shows. Remember "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends"? Since TF first aired, I immediately recognized animation similar to that show. Three eps are by Toei, but for all the rest, the credits say "Produced in association with MiHahn, Inc." They were a South Korean outfit, which according to scant info also outsourced to other studios. Whether any of those are based in the Phillipines, I don't know, but as far as I'm concerned, I go with "suspected to be by MiHahn". I'm maintaining a spreadsheet, and I will take everything else written here into consideration. When I'm finished identifying all AKOM eps to the best of my ability to detect these various animation techniques, I will let folks know. [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 20:27, 6 April 2023 (EDT)

:Anything helps, I'm getting really tired of trying to identify episodes by eye to the point I don't know how many I have accurate and how many I'm completely wrong about (the downside to acid testing is that there are plenty of episodes with similar styles). Both for Toei and AKOM alike. This is why I wish we had full production materials, if they still exist, regarding who did what, so can't wait for that spreadsheet. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 20:31, 8 April 2023 (EDT)

::Agreed with everything you say, but I haven't given up identifying by looking just yet. I now have other asks and thoughts available, '''so here's my update'''. I haven't completely ruled out AKOM possibly subcontracting whoever worked on what I call the three Season 2 "PSE-style" eps (for "Pan Sang East"). It's certainly not in-house. If that's what's happened, then I currently believe the ten non-Toei eps from Season 2 are all AKOM. I left a discussion note in "Only Human", and I'm writing one now for "Triple Takeover". I'm not ready to share the spreadsheet, but all of my thoughts and best guesses so far are now at my user page, and anyone can feel free to discuss there; I promise to consider everything. [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2023 (EDT)

::One more thing, because it occurred to me after being at the chat and after more research: I've said that Sam Young in Season 3 was such trash there's no point in comparing with anything else, but I've just run all the way thru the "Jem" series, and Sam Young's work seems to be quite a bit better, and that makes for a good reminder that '''budget''' may play as much of a role as any studio. We say that "Brigade" looks particularly nasty, so it couldn't be Sei Young, but I do see enough similarities that I don't disbelieve Sei Young involvement; it could be a matter of a lower budget making things worse and smushing the hell out of Powerglide's face, at least in this case. Check out the G.I. Joe episode "Haul Down the Heavens": I'm almost convinced it's the same situation, a really janky version of Sei Young. Some Sei Young stuff in "Defenders of the Earth" can get hella janky too at times. By the same token, Sam Young may have some arguably decent work in the "Jem" series, and then we get G1 "Carnage". I'm actually jealous of how many times Toei's good teams help the ladies out while us "lousy Autobot lovers" get shipped to Korea. [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2023 (EDT)

UPDATE: I don't want to repeat myself since all new info is reflected on my user page, but there are three interesting developments that I'll summarize here. '''First:''' I'm calling it.... "those three" are probably by '''Hanho Heung-Up''', possibly produced by MiHahn. I'm sorry I didn't catch the info earlier at Megna, but their summaries at the "home" page seem to point to this conclusion. '''Second:''' It was hinted at by Danja, but to me is now a serious consideration. That is, what if Shin Won was indeed another AKOM subcontractor? I said before that Shin Won might not have done anything beyond in-betweening, but that was because I assumed they worked for Toei, but if it was AKOM, it'd be nice to hope that would blow this case wide open, especially considering.... '''Third:''' Have you seen TV Tropes lately? suddenly, over the past month there's been a lot of new info entered regarding who did what on G1. Shin Won, Dai Won, Doga Kobo, etc.! I don't trust all of it - some info seems quite implausible - but the most interesting info concerns Shin Won working on episodes I always suspected were from AKOM. I'm considering all of it, but '''''GOT''''' dammit, ''why are there no citations?!?!?'' [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 19:51, 13 May 2023 (EDT)

User:JoseBxR

2023-05-13T16:52:26Z

JoseBxR: /* Animation Determination As Of May 12, 2023 */

==About==
Music artist and Media Editor for OverClocked ReMix. 
Creative talent with absolutely no free time to create. 
Maintaining a YouTube channel for multimedia product, but so far is mostly a collection of funny English dubs of martial arts films. 
Animation maven from the prehistoric (before Internet) era. Areas of interest: U.S. theatrical shorts from 1930-1954; U.S. theatrical cel animation; Animation produced in Japan for Japan from 1970-1995; TV animation co-produced in Japan from 1980-1995.

This page is to be a repository for information regarding my research in '''identifying G1 animation works''', and also possibly information on poor G1 English dubbing, perhaps even the music from the series and my issues with presenting so many show oddities as "errors".

==All notes on identifying G1 animation (subject to change)==
Following is pure draft speculation, and is being updated constantly as I uncover new evidence. '''''Nothing is 100 percent, so please do not spread this info elsewhere, unless it's in an episode's discussion tab.''''' Everything so far is mostly attributed to "my own eyes and my own experience", which may be what got us into this mess regarding AKOM's work, but the difference with me is I keep my conclusion-jumping to an absolute minimum. Anyone can feel free to comment and point me to any and all additional, even contradictory, evidence for consideration within the discussion tab. I intend to compile video evidence of animation techniques, movement and styles between episodes '''(eps)''', and present them somewhere for the community, possibly for linking to talk pages.

===Animation Determination As Of May 12, 2023===
'''Season 1 (s1):'''
*16 TOEI and/or TOEI-Outsourced
'''Season 2 (s2):'''
*39 TOEI and/or TOEI-Outsourced
*At least 7 AKOM and/or AKOM-Outsourced
**"[[Auto Berserk]]"
**"[[A Prime Problem]]"
**"[[A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court (episode)|A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court]]"
**"[[Make Tracks]]"
**"[[The Secret of Omega Supreme (episode)|The Secret of Omega Supreme]]"
**"[[Kremzeek!]]"
**"[[Triple Takeover]]"
*3 HANHO HEUNG-UP, possibly produced by MIHAHN
**"[[City of Steel (episode)|City of Steel]]"
**"[[The Autobot Run]]"
**"[[The Core]]"
'''Season 3 (s3):'''
*13 TOEI-Outsourced
*15 AKOM and/or AKOM-Outsourced
*2 SEI YOUNG
**"[[Surprise Party]]"
**"[[Only Human]]"
'''Season 4 (s4):'''
*3 AKOM

===Factual Evidence===
This collection of facts and creator claims is the basis for research on all eps, on the understanding that there may be errors here as well.

AKOM '''claims work on 39 eps''' from the entire series (according to their website)

Toei (according to archived "resume" webpage) '''claims work on'''
*'''all 3 eps''' from pilot miniseries
*'''all 13 eps''' from "Part 1" (season 1)
*'''39 eps''' from "Part 2" (season 2)
*'''13 eps''' from "Part 3" (season 3)

'''The Megna Co-Productions Database''' is quite valuable as a resource for identifying studios, but at the same time as horrifying as any other source for the lack of attributions, bibliography or citations. Major props to member [[User:Danja|Danja]] for the find.

Production materials allude to '''AKOM out-sourcing to Sam Young''' studio. Production materials belonging to Paul Davids indicate '''Sei Young worked on''' "Surprise Party", with no evidence of Toei involvement. Davids also claims some work came from a '''studio in the Philippines'''. There is confirmed evidence of '''storyboards shipped to Korea or Japan''' for preliminary work, which may or may not offer clues on the studio(s) ultimately selected for animation work. '''Nobuyoshi Habara (apparently with Ashi Pro at the time)''' claims work on several episodes; it's unclear which ones based on the episode numbers he offers, but his impressive technique is highly recognizable, which will make it relatively easy to identify episodes. '''Eiji Suganuma''' claims work as animation director on "Call of the Primitives" and says Toei passed work to Studio Look, which in turn passed some work to "International Animation Research Institute".

===Challenges===
It is admittedly difficult to identify studios in general, and non-Toei animation in particular, as explained below. However, I’m still baffled as to why only three eps out of s2 were readily identified as AKOM, ''and nothing else'', considering that Nelson Shin was supervising producer, his wife was production manager, and especially with so many other eps unidentified. There should have been no “unknown studio” as understood up to this point: if it’s not Toei, then the next reasonable thought would be that ''Nelson got '''his''' people to do it''. Now that we have some numbers out there, any “unknowns” that exist will likely not match the accepted info.

I want to note here: '''the mission for now is to determine which eps are claimed by Toei and which by AKOM, that is, which studio produced key animation''', whether outsourced or in-house, and after I'm satisfied with the result, I'll see if it's possible to look into the various other studios being mentioned, keeping in mind that listing of an extra studio doesn't indicate anything more than involvement, let alone main animation production. I didn’t necessarily wish to go into the weeds of exactly who was outsourced to do which ep, but some of that work will have to be done to the extent of gathering evidence for identifying Toei and AKOM work, and maybe it’s worth trying so that the wiki could be able to link to and track all evidence linking studios to this work.

'''''I need help on citations:''''' This site links to that one tweet about Studio Look, since everyone was dying to know who was behind "Call of the Primitives" (what made you all think it was TMS? LOL), and then there is the archived Toei resume and the aforementioned Megna Database where mentions of "Nakamura", "Dai Won", etc. come from, but the latter is the only place that has apparent authority of any sort, yet still no citations. Sites such as iMDB, TV Tropes and ANN welcome contributions, but with no apparent links to authoritative resources, not even on an "some guy said to me over DMs" level. '''''This is maddening'''''. Anything real that I collect I want to try to get preserved on this page, at least until we have something better established in the community.

Speaking for myself, this process is not as easy when there aren’t enough human characters running around to compare with. Robot characters make it more difficult. Most times you can only rely on mouth movement, a few poses and possibly some special effects, and that’s about it.

The greatest difficulty with identifying AKOM work is that this show is essentially their very first product: Marvel helped establish the studio in South Korea in 1985, and they probably hit the ground running, even though their first official work may be “My Little Pony: the Movie”. There’s almost nothing else from the time period, all the way until “Spiral Zone” in 1987, and by then their style changed significantly in some areas. Still, there are some good clues in that show, ''and they credit the animators''!

Some folks are using “models” as a way of identifying animation. Although bad animation wouldn’t necessarily follow models anyway, and I wouldn’t want us to overthink about how something ''looks'', at the expense of how something ''moves'', this could be helpful in spots. In the case of Hoist, it helps me confirm where there’s a previous suspicion; The “alternate" Hoist model is identified only in eps that I already suspected were done by AKOM.

AKOM's majority of work in s3 is on another level of garbage generally, and IMO it should not be used as any sort of guide for comparing techniques in other seasons or shows. It just doesn't look like anything else out there; it seems to be almost exclusively the work of Sam Young, and I hesitate to even assign blame to AKOM, except for agreeing to outsource work to this bootleg outlet. AKOM ''is'' capable of good animation, even great animation in the view of some. They apparently allowed their dregs to work on s3, but s2 had a few legit awesome sequences. I’m convinced “A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur’s Court” is one of theirs, and it’s arguably their best TF work. By the time s4 came around, AKOM settled on a style similar to most contemporaneous South Korean output, but still characterized by their almost singular sloppy line work.

===THOSE “Three”===
"City of Steel", "The Autobot Run" and "The Core" are in my view very, very obviously produced by some studio out of South Korea employed by Marvel around this time (basically MiHahn and/or Dong Seo, with a Hong Kong outfit called Pan Sang East possibly collaborating with Dong Seo), because the work is virtually identical to work on "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends", as well as other Marvel shows of that period, not to mention several Ruby/Spears productions. “Amazing” explicitly credits an "association" with MiHahn, and “Incredible Hulk” is said to be from Pan Sang East. I have seen credits from either “Hulk” or “Hulk & Spider-Man” that mention Pan Sang East. It’s my guess the "Philippines" remark references something from these ranks, although they're not located there. Those eps are '''not''' AKOM-style to my eyes, and apparently no one has challenged this for a long time. Previously, I didn't rule out the possibility that this unknown studio may have ended up as an AKOM sub-contractor, because we have evidence of AKOM outsourcing due to the Sam Young materials. However, more evidence from Megna leads me to what may be a conclusion.

'''IF it is TRUE that''' 1) Dong Seo worked on “Spider-Friends”, “Hulk”, and several Ruby/Spears shows, 2) Steven Hahn founded MiHahn (which produced for “Spider-Friends” apparently with Dong Seo) in 1984, then founded Hanho Heung-Up soon afterward, out of animators at Dong Seo, 3) MiHahn and Hanho then formed a partnership on several 80’s shows, mostly for Nelvana in Canada, '''THEN''' the animation in “those three” could plausibly have been produced ''after'' the combination of MiHahn/Hanho was in effect, but ''before'' AKOM was formally established in '85, especially considering the talk at TV Tropes that Marvel didn’t want to keep paying Toei. Until I get contradicting info, '''I'm awfully close to concluding that those 3 are “Hanho Heung-Up” or “Mihahn & Hanho Heung-Up” productions.''' Interestingly, Toei and Hanho are said to have worked on "Turbo Teen". I’d still like to know what the deal was with Pan Sang East, tho.

===Overlap?===
Some folks have it right that because one studio claims an ep, it doesn’t preclude other studios laying claim to the same ep. The numbers from Toei and AKOM imply some overlap. I have come to rely on depictions of Megatron for identifying Toei works, and Starscream for identifying AKOM works, but it's not foolproof. I worked out all the Toei claims, stupidly not considering that the community has already done most of that good work, but the AKOM stuff will require much more study, especially since, unlike with Toei, there are no numbers on how many eps they produced for s2. '''Has anyone tried to ask Nelson Shin?''' People have indeed contacted him about possibly releasing his magnum opus “Empress Chung” internationally. Unless AKOM themselves come clean about which 39 eps they are claiming, we may never have a complete resolution. I don’t expect they’ll cooperate after decades of (some undeserved) scorn and ridicule heaped on them by the fandom, but maybe worth a shot?

'''More new evidence to consider. IF it is TRUE that''' 1) Toei, according to their resume, produced 33 out of 39 episodes of “Jem Part 2” (understood to be Seasons 2 and 3), 2) “Jem” was animated, according to Megna, by Toei, Shin Won and Sam Young, 3) the work went to Shin Won and Sam Young because, according to TV Tropes, Marvel couldn’t afford to keep paying Toei for this show, 4) AKOM (which employed Sam Young) produced six of these 39 eps of “Jem”, according to Wikipedia, 5) Shin Won, according to TV Tropes, worked on specific eps of “Transformers” Season 2, '''THEN''' the question that could blow this case wide open becomes: '''What if Shin Won was indeed another AKOM subcontractor?''' I said before that Shin Won might not have done anything beyond in-betweening, but that was because I assumed they worked for Toei, but if it was AKOM, then that changes the game. The problem so far is they don’t seem to be working for AKOM in every show said to be theirs, and I’m also ''highly skeptical'' of some of the Shin Won assertions at TV Tropes, but I admit it’s an interesting clue.

===Recycling===
Recycled animation is virtually a dead giveaway for identifying studios. I started with the idea that any ep that reuses animation from Toei could be assumed to be claimed by Toei. I strongly suspected that even if an episode has nothing else from Toei except that Prime animation, then Toei claims it. “Attack of the Autobots” doesn’t seem to have anything else Toei-like, but I'm not sold in either direction yet. Same for "Starscream's Brigade", which is likely a cheap Sei Young product, but has the Prime sequence, and also a Lazerbeak eject sequence actually re-traced from the original shot in the Toei-produced "Changing Gears". I am marking stuff like this in my research. It’s not just Prime: “Golden Lagoon” features stock Toei animation of Omega Supreme; a Bruticus merge is repeated in “Aerial Assault”; certain cassette ejections are repeated in certain episodes; etc.

===Other Eps and Other Shows===
My research spreadsheet has descriptions of certain styles from Toei such as "Traitor" animation and "Immobilizer" animation, so I could try to compare between eps, but I'm watching other shows of the period as well. “G.I. Joe” and “Defenders of the Earth”, as mentioned, are very good study resources. For example, I realized that although “Aerial Assault” is unique for Transformers, this animation (possibly in-house) is in quite a few “Joe” eps (most notably the “Pyramid of Darkness” 5-parter), and I'm now seeing plenty of this work in "Jem" eps. That's another very helpful source. In the case of Sei Young, “Defenders” gives us much more than “Surprise Party” to use as a reference, because they produced so many eps on that show. I’m convinced “Only Human” is a Sei Young product, which would actually reconcile some of the available info. Here’s why: The Toei resume indicates 13 “Part 3” eps, but also indicates a production year of “1987”; that would seem incorrect, unless they either didn’t count “The Return of Optimus Prime” (which aired Feb. ‘87) or didn't work on two of the non-AKOM eps. However, if the two Sei Young eps don’t count as Toei-produced, the numbers check out. Toei’s resume claims only two eps of “Defenders”, so we know Sei Young doesn’t count under Toei in that case. "Starscream's Brigade" is said to be done by Sei Young, and I believe that as well, but on the other hand there is also the Toei Prime animation and evidence of a "retraced" Toei shot of Soundwave, which points to a Toei claim as well. If anyone has evidence of other shows, animes and animation confirmed to be produced by certain studios mentioned here (I already checked AKOM's other stuff), please call to my attention.

'''Case in point on this subject:''' There's been a lot of activity over the past month at TV Tropes (March/April 2023), with a couple members entering a whole lot of G1 animation info. Some of it seems quite legit, some of it harder to believe, and at least one seems to have come from my offhand comment about “G.I. Joe” at "Unknown Studios" (not cool). My spreadsheet now has all this info entered under a new column called “WHO THE HELL SAYS?”, and I don’t know how to begin reconciling because, ''LIKE ALWAYS, this new info has no attribution and no source citation.'' If I had hair on my head, I’d be pulling it right out.

===Ink & Paint===
Folks should keep in mind that “later” stages in animation, such as ink & paint, could be done by other studios. I feel as though certain episodes may have farmed that work out, so when folks, for example, say that “Starscream’s Ghost” is so much better qualitatively than their other s3 works, I don’t see that as much as I see slightly better work enhanced with better ink & paint. In the case of “Only Human”, ink & paint seems to make Sei Young’s animation better than their exact same output for “Surprise Party”. “Return of Optimus” Part 2, IMO, is ''quite terrible'', but with very impressive ink & paint work that I believe makes people think the animation is better than it actually is.

User:JoseBxR

2023-05-13T16:17:49Z

JoseBxR: /* Factual Evidence */

==About==
Music artist and Media Editor for OverClocked ReMix. 
Creative talent with absolutely no free time to create. 
Maintaining a YouTube channel for multimedia product, but so far is mostly a collection of funny English dubs of martial arts films. 
Animation maven from the prehistoric (before Internet) era. Areas of interest: U.S. theatrical shorts from 1930-1954; U.S. theatrical cel animation; Animation produced in Japan for Japan from 1970-1995; TV animation co-produced in Japan from 1980-1995.

This page is to be a repository for information regarding my research in '''identifying G1 animation works''', and also possibly information on poor G1 English dubbing, perhaps even the music from the series and my issues with presenting so many show oddities as "errors".

==All notes on identifying G1 animation (subject to change)==
Following is pure draft speculation, and is being updated constantly as I uncover new evidence. '''''Nothing is 100 percent, so please do not spread this info elsewhere, unless it's in an episode's discussion tab.''''' Everything so far is mostly attributed to "my own eyes and my own experience", which may be what got us into this mess regarding AKOM's work, but the difference with me is I keep my conclusion-jumping to an absolute minimum. Anyone can feel free to comment and point me to any and all additional, even contradictory, evidence for consideration within the discussion tab. I intend to compile video evidence of animation techniques, movement and styles between episodes '''(eps)''', and present them somewhere for the community, possibly for linking to talk pages.

===Animation Determination As Of May 12, 2023===
'''Season 1 (s1):'''
*16 TOEI and/or TOEI-Outsourced
'''Season 2 (s2):'''
*39 TOEI and/or TOEI-Outsourced
*At least 7 AKOM
**"[[Auto Berserk]]"
**"[[A Prime Problem]]"
**"[[A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court (episode)|A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court]]"
**"[[Make Tracks]]"
**"[[The Secret of Omega Supreme (episode)|The Secret of Omega Supreme]]"
**"[[Kremzeek!]]"
**"[[Triple Takeover]]"
*3 HANHO HEUNG-UP, possibly produced by MIHAHN
**"[[City of Steel (episode)|City of Steel]]"
**"[[The Autobot Run]]"
**"[[The Core]]"
'''Season 3 (s3):'''
*13 TOEI-Outsourced
*15 AKOM and/or AKOM-Outsourced
*2 SEI YOUNG
**"[[Surprise Party]]"
**"[[Only Human]]"
'''Season 4 (s4):'''
*3 AKOM

===Factual Evidence===
This collection of facts and creator claims is the basis for research on all eps, on the understanding that there may be errors here as well.

AKOM '''claims work on 39 eps''' from the entire series (according to their website)

Toei (according to archived "resume" webpage) '''claims work on'''
*'''all 3 eps''' from pilot miniseries
*'''all 13 eps''' from "Part 1" (season 1)
*'''39 eps''' from "Part 2" (season 2)
*'''13 eps''' from "Part 3" (season 3)

'''The Megna Co-Productions Database''' is quite valuable as a resource for identifying studios, but at the same time as horrifying as any other source for the lack of attributions, bibliography or citations. Major props to member [[User:Danja|Danja]] for the find.

Production materials allude to '''AKOM out-sourcing to Sam Young''' studio. Production materials belonging to Paul Davids indicate '''Sei Young worked on''' "Surprise Party", with no evidence of Toei involvement. Davids also claims some work came from a '''studio in the Philippines'''. There is confirmed evidence of '''storyboards shipped to Korea or Japan''' for preliminary work, which may or may not offer clues on the studio(s) ultimately selected for animation work. '''Nobuyoshi Habara (apparently with Ashi Pro at the time)''' claims work on several episodes; it's unclear which ones based on the episode numbers he offers, but his impressive technique is highly recognizable, which will make it relatively easy to identify episodes. '''Eiji Suganuma''' claims work as animation director on "Call of the Primitives" and says Toei passed work to Studio Look, which in turn passed some work to "International Animation Research Institute".

===Challenges===
It is admittedly difficult to identify studios in general, and non-Toei animation in particular, as explained below. However, I’m still baffled as to why only three eps out of s2 were readily identified as AKOM, ''and nothing else'', considering that Nelson Shin was supervising producer, his wife was production manager, and especially with so many other eps unidentified. There should have been no “unknown studio” as understood up to this point: if it’s not Toei, then the next reasonable thought would be that ''Nelson got '''his''' people to do it''. Now that we have some numbers out there, any “unknowns” that exist will likely not match the accepted info.

I want to note here: '''the mission for now is to determine which eps are claimed by Toei and which by AKOM, that is, which studio produced key animation''', whether outsourced or in-house, and after I'm satisfied with the result, I'll see if it's possible to look into the various other studios being mentioned, keeping in mind that listing of an extra studio doesn't indicate anything more than involvement, let alone main animation production. I didn’t necessarily wish to go into the weeds of exactly who was outsourced to do which ep, but some of that work will have to be done to the extent of gathering evidence for identifying Toei and AKOM work, and maybe it’s worth trying so that the wiki could be able to link to and track all evidence linking studios to this work.

'''''I need help on citations:''''' This site links to that one tweet about Studio Look, since everyone was dying to know who was behind "Call of the Primitives" (what made you all think it was TMS? LOL), and then there is the archived Toei resume and the aforementioned Megna Database where mentions of "Nakamura", "Dai Won", etc. come from, but the latter is the only place that has apparent authority of any sort, yet still no citations. Sites such as iMDB, TV Tropes and ANN welcome contributions, but with no apparent links to authoritative resources, not even on an "some guy said to me over DMs" level. '''''This is maddening'''''. Anything real that I collect I want to try to get preserved on this page, at least until we have something better established in the community.

Speaking for myself, this process is not as easy when there aren’t enough human characters running around to compare with. Robot characters make it more difficult. Most times you can only rely on mouth movement, a few poses and possibly some special effects, and that’s about it.

The greatest difficulty with identifying AKOM work is that this show is essentially their very first product: Marvel helped establish the studio in South Korea in 1985, and they probably hit the ground running, even though their first official work may be “My Little Pony: the Movie”. There’s almost nothing else from the time period, all the way until “Spiral Zone” in 1987, and by then their style changed significantly in some areas. Still, there are some good clues in that show, ''and they credit the animators''!

Some folks are using “models” as a way of identifying animation. Although bad animation wouldn’t necessarily follow models anyway, and I wouldn’t want us to overthink about how something ''looks'', at the expense of how something ''moves'', this could be helpful in spots. In the case of Hoist, it helps me confirm where there’s a previous suspicion; The “alternate" Hoist model is identified only in eps that I already suspected were done by AKOM.

AKOM's majority of work in s3 is on another level of garbage generally, and IMO it should not be used as any sort of guide for comparing techniques in other seasons or shows. It just doesn't look like anything else out there; it seems to be almost exclusively the work of Sam Young, and I hesitate to even assign blame to AKOM, except for agreeing to outsource work to this bootleg outlet. AKOM ''is'' capable of good animation, even great animation in the view of some. They apparently allowed their dregs to work on s3, but s2 had a few legit awesome sequences. I’m convinced “A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur’s Court” is one of theirs, and it’s arguably their best TF work. By the time s4 came around, AKOM settled on a style similar to most contemporaneous South Korean output, but still characterized by their almost singular sloppy line work.

===THOSE “Three”===
"City of Steel", "The Autobot Run" and "The Core" are in my view very, very obviously produced by some studio out of South Korea employed by Marvel around this time (basically MiHahn and/or Dong Seo, with a Hong Kong outfit called Pan Sang East possibly collaborating with Dong Seo), because the work is virtually identical to work on "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends", as well as other Marvel shows of that period, not to mention several Ruby/Spears productions. “Amazing” explicitly credits an "association" with MiHahn, and “Incredible Hulk” is said to be from Pan Sang East. I have seen credits from either “Hulk” or “Hulk & Spider-Man” that mention Pan Sang East. It’s my guess the "Philippines" remark references something from these ranks, although they're not located there. Those eps are '''not''' AKOM-style to my eyes, and apparently no one has challenged this for a long time. Previously, I didn't rule out the possibility that this unknown studio may have ended up as an AKOM sub-contractor, because we have evidence of AKOM outsourcing due to the Sam Young materials. However, more evidence from Megna leads me to what may be a conclusion.

'''IF it is TRUE that''' 1) Dong Seo worked on “Spider-Friends”, “Hulk”, and several Ruby/Spears shows, 2) Steven Hahn founded MiHahn (which produced for “Spider-Friends” apparently with Dong Seo) in 1984, then founded Hanho Heung-Up soon afterward, out of animators at Dong Seo, 3) MiHahn and Hanho then formed a partnership on several 80’s shows, mostly for Nelvana in Canada, '''THEN''' the animation in “those three” could plausibly have been produced ''after'' the combination of MiHahn/Hanho was in effect, but ''before'' AKOM was formally established in '85, especially considering the talk at TV Tropes that Marvel didn’t want to keep paying Toei. Until I get contradicting info, '''I'm awfully close to concluding that those 3 are “Hanho Heung-Up” or “Mihahn & Hanho Heung-Up” productions.''' Interestingly, Toei and Hanho are said to have worked on "Turbo Teen". I’d still like to know what the deal was with Pan Sang East, tho.

===Overlap?===
Some folks have it right that because one studio claims an ep, it doesn’t preclude other studios laying claim to the same ep. The numbers from Toei and AKOM imply some overlap. I have come to rely on depictions of Megatron for identifying Toei works, and Starscream for identifying AKOM works, but it's not foolproof. I worked out all the Toei claims, stupidly not considering that the community has already done most of that good work, but the AKOM stuff will require much more study, especially since, unlike with Toei, there are no numbers on how many eps they produced for s2. '''Has anyone tried to ask Nelson Shin?''' People have indeed contacted him about possibly releasing his magnum opus “Empress Chung” internationally. Unless AKOM themselves come clean about which 39 eps they are claiming, we may never have a complete resolution. I don’t expect they’ll cooperate after decades of (some undeserved) scorn and ridicule heaped on them by the fandom, but maybe worth a shot?

'''More new evidence to consider. IF it is TRUE that''' 1) Toei, according to their resume, produced 33 out of 39 episodes of “Jem Part 2” (understood to be Seasons 2 and 3), 2) “Jem” was animated, according to Megna, by Toei, Shin Won and Sam Young, 3) the work went to Shin Won and Sam Young because, according to TV Tropes, Marvel couldn’t afford to keep paying Toei for this show, 4) AKOM (which employed Sam Young) produced six of these 39 eps of “Jem”, according to Wikipedia, 5) Shin Won, according to TV Tropes, worked on specific eps of “Transformers” Season 2, '''THEN''' the question that could blow this case wide open becomes: '''What if Shin Won was indeed another AKOM subcontractor?''' I said before that Shin Won might not have done anything beyond in-betweening, but that was because I assumed they worked for Toei, but if it was AKOM, then that changes the game. The problem so far is they don’t seem to be working for AKOM in every show said to be theirs, and I’m also ''highly skeptical'' of some of the Shin Won assertions at TV Tropes, but I admit it’s an interesting clue.

===Recycling===
Recycled animation is virtually a dead giveaway for identifying studios. I started with the idea that any ep that reuses animation from Toei could be assumed to be claimed by Toei. I strongly suspected that even if an episode has nothing else from Toei except that Prime animation, then Toei claims it. “Attack of the Autobots” doesn’t seem to have anything else Toei-like, but I'm not sold in either direction yet. Same for "Starscream's Brigade", which is likely a cheap Sei Young product, but has the Prime sequence, and also a Lazerbeak eject sequence actually re-traced from the original shot in the Toei-produced "Changing Gears". I am marking stuff like this in my research. It’s not just Prime: “Golden Lagoon” features stock Toei animation of Omega Supreme; a Bruticus merge is repeated in “Aerial Assault”; certain cassette ejections are repeated in certain episodes; etc.

===Other Eps and Other Shows===
My research spreadsheet has descriptions of certain styles from Toei such as "Traitor" animation and "Immobilizer" animation, so I could try to compare between eps, but I'm watching other shows of the period as well. “G.I. Joe” and “Defenders of the Earth”, as mentioned, are very good study resources. For example, I realized that although “Aerial Assault” is unique for Transformers, this animation (possibly in-house) is in quite a few “Joe” eps (most notably the “Pyramid of Darkness” 5-parter), and I'm now seeing plenty of this work in "Jem" eps. That's another very helpful source. In the case of Sei Young, “Defenders” gives us much more than “Surprise Party” to use as a reference, because they produced so many eps on that show. I’m convinced “Only Human” is a Sei Young product, which would actually reconcile some of the available info. Here’s why: The Toei resume indicates 13 “Part 3” eps, but also indicates a production year of “1987”; that would seem incorrect, unless they either didn’t count “The Return of Optimus Prime” (which aired Feb. ‘87) or didn't work on two of the non-AKOM eps. However, if the two Sei Young eps don’t count as Toei-produced, the numbers check out. Toei’s resume claims only two eps of “Defenders”, so we know Sei Young doesn’t count under Toei in that case. "Starscream's Brigade" is said to be done by Sei Young, and I believe that as well, but on the other hand there is also the Toei Prime animation and evidence of a "retraced" Toei shot of Soundwave, which points to a Toei claim as well. If anyone has evidence of other shows, animes and animation confirmed to be produced by certain studios mentioned here (I already checked AKOM's other stuff), please call to my attention.

'''Case in point on this subject:''' There's been a lot of activity over the past month at TV Tropes (March/April 2023), with a couple members entering a whole lot of G1 animation info. Some of it seems quite legit, some of it harder to believe, and at least one seems to have come from my offhand comment about “G.I. Joe” at "Unknown Studios" (not cool). My spreadsheet now has all this info entered under a new column called “WHO THE HELL SAYS?”, and I don’t know how to begin reconciling because, ''LIKE ALWAYS, this new info has no attribution and no source citation.'' If I had hair on my head, I’d be pulling it right out.

===Ink & Paint===
Folks should keep in mind that “later” stages in animation, such as ink & paint, could be done by other studios. I feel as though certain episodes may have farmed that work out, so when folks, for example, say that “Starscream’s Ghost” is so much better qualitatively than their other s3 works, I don’t see that as much as I see slightly better work enhanced with better ink & paint. In the case of “Only Human”, ink & paint seems to make Sei Young’s animation better than their exact same output for “Surprise Party”. “Return of Optimus” Part 2, IMO, is ''quite terrible'', but with very impressive ink & paint work that I believe makes people think the animation is better than it actually is.

User:JoseBxR

2023-05-13T16:06:33Z

JoseBxR: /* Factual Evidence */

==About==
Music artist and Media Editor for OverClocked ReMix. 
Creative talent with absolutely no free time to create. 
Maintaining a YouTube channel for multimedia product, but so far is mostly a collection of funny English dubs of martial arts films. 
Animation maven from the prehistoric (before Internet) era. Areas of interest: U.S. theatrical shorts from 1930-1954; U.S. theatrical cel animation; Animation produced in Japan for Japan from 1970-1995; TV animation co-produced in Japan from 1980-1995.

This page is to be a repository for information regarding my research in '''identifying G1 animation works''', and also possibly information on poor G1 English dubbing, perhaps even the music from the series and my issues with presenting so many show oddities as "errors".

==All notes on identifying G1 animation (subject to change)==
Following is pure draft speculation, and is being updated constantly as I uncover new evidence. '''''Nothing is 100 percent, so please do not spread this info elsewhere, unless it's in an episode's discussion tab.''''' Everything so far is mostly attributed to "my own eyes and my own experience", which may be what got us into this mess regarding AKOM's work, but the difference with me is I keep my conclusion-jumping to an absolute minimum. Anyone can feel free to comment and point me to any and all additional, even contradictory, evidence for consideration within the discussion tab. I intend to compile video evidence of animation techniques, movement and styles between episodes '''(eps)''', and present them somewhere for the community, possibly for linking to talk pages.

===Animation Determination As Of May 12, 2023===
'''Season 1 (s1):'''
*16 TOEI and/or TOEI-Outsourced
'''Season 2 (s2):'''
*39 TOEI and/or TOEI-Outsourced
*At least 7 AKOM
**"[[Auto Berserk]]"
**"[[A Prime Problem]]"
**"[[A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court (episode)|A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court]]"
**"[[Make Tracks]]"
**"[[The Secret of Omega Supreme (episode)|The Secret of Omega Supreme]]"
**"[[Kremzeek!]]"
**"[[Triple Takeover]]"
*3 HANHO HEUNG-UP, possibly produced by MIHAHN
**"[[City of Steel (episode)|City of Steel]]"
**"[[The Autobot Run]]"
**"[[The Core]]"
'''Season 3 (s3):'''
*13 TOEI-Outsourced
*15 AKOM and/or AKOM-Outsourced
*2 SEI YOUNG
**"[[Surprise Party]]"
**"[[Only Human]]"
'''Season 4 (s4):'''
*3 AKOM

===Factual Evidence===
This collection of facts and creator claims is the basis for research on all eps, on the understanding that there may be errors here as well.

AKOM '''claims work on 39 eps''' from the entire series (according to their website)

Toei (according to archived "resume" webpage) '''claims work on'''
*'''all 3 eps''' from pilot miniseries
*'''all 13 eps''' from "Part 1" (season 1)
*'''39 eps''' from "Part 2" (season 2)
*'''13 eps''' from "Part 3" (season 3)

'''The Megna Co-Productions Database''' is quite valuable as a resource for identifying studios, but at the same time as horrifying as any other source for the lack of attributions, bibliography or citations. Major props to member [[User:Danja|Danja]] for the find.

Production materials allude to '''AKOM out-sourcing to Sam Young''' studio. Production materials belonging to Paul Davids indicate '''Sei Young worked on''' "Surprise Party", with no evidence of Toei involvement. Davids also claims some work came from a '''studio in the Philippines'''. There is confirmed evidence of '''storyboards shipped to Korea or Japan''' for preliminary work, which may or may not offer clues on the studio(s) ultimately selected for animation work. '''Nobuyoshi Habara (apparently with Ashi Pro at the time)''' claims work on several episodes; it's unclear which ones based on the episode numbers he offers, but his impressive technique is highly recognizable, which will make it relatively easy to identify episodes.

===Challenges===
It is admittedly difficult to identify studios in general, and non-Toei animation in particular, as explained below. However, I’m still baffled as to why only three eps out of s2 were readily identified as AKOM, ''and nothing else'', considering that Nelson Shin was supervising producer, his wife was production manager, and especially with so many other eps unidentified. There should have been no “unknown studio” as understood up to this point: if it’s not Toei, then the next reasonable thought would be that ''Nelson got '''his''' people to do it''. Now that we have some numbers out there, any “unknowns” that exist will likely not match the accepted info.

I want to note here: '''the mission for now is to determine which eps are claimed by Toei and which by AKOM, that is, which studio produced key animation''', whether outsourced or in-house, and after I'm satisfied with the result, I'll see if it's possible to look into the various other studios being mentioned, keeping in mind that listing of an extra studio doesn't indicate anything more than involvement, let alone main animation production. I didn’t necessarily wish to go into the weeds of exactly who was outsourced to do which ep, but some of that work will have to be done to the extent of gathering evidence for identifying Toei and AKOM work, and maybe it’s worth trying so that the wiki could be able to link to and track all evidence linking studios to this work.

'''''I need help on citations:''''' This site links to that one tweet about Studio Look, since everyone was dying to know who was behind "Call of the Primitives" (what made you all think it was TMS? LOL), and then there is the archived Toei resume and the aforementioned Megna Database where mentions of "Nakamura", "Dai Won", etc. come from, but the latter is the only place that has apparent authority of any sort, yet still no citations. Sites such as iMDB, TV Tropes and ANN welcome contributions, but with no apparent links to authoritative resources, not even on an "some guy said to me over DMs" level. '''''This is maddening'''''. Anything real that I collect I want to try to get preserved on this page, at least until we have something better established in the community.

Speaking for myself, this process is not as easy when there aren’t enough human characters running around to compare with. Robot characters make it more difficult. Most times you can only rely on mouth movement, a few poses and possibly some special effects, and that’s about it.

The greatest difficulty with identifying AKOM work is that this show is essentially their very first product: Marvel helped establish the studio in South Korea in 1985, and they probably hit the ground running, even though their first official work may be “My Little Pony: the Movie”. There’s almost nothing else from the time period, all the way until “Spiral Zone” in 1987, and by then their style changed significantly in some areas. Still, there are some good clues in that show, ''and they credit the animators''!

Some folks are using “models” as a way of identifying animation. Although bad animation wouldn’t necessarily follow models anyway, and I wouldn’t want us to overthink about how something ''looks'', at the expense of how something ''moves'', this could be helpful in spots. In the case of Hoist, it helps me confirm where there’s a previous suspicion; The “alternate" Hoist model is identified only in eps that I already suspected were done by AKOM.

AKOM's majority of work in s3 is on another level of garbage generally, and IMO it should not be used as any sort of guide for comparing techniques in other seasons or shows. It just doesn't look like anything else out there; it seems to be almost exclusively the work of Sam Young, and I hesitate to even assign blame to AKOM, except for agreeing to outsource work to this bootleg outlet. AKOM ''is'' capable of good animation, even great animation in the view of some. They apparently allowed their dregs to work on s3, but s2 had a few legit awesome sequences. I’m convinced “A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur’s Court” is one of theirs, and it’s arguably their best TF work. By the time s4 came around, AKOM settled on a style similar to most contemporaneous South Korean output, but still characterized by their almost singular sloppy line work.

===THOSE “Three”===
"City of Steel", "The Autobot Run" and "The Core" are in my view very, very obviously produced by some studio out of South Korea employed by Marvel around this time (basically MiHahn and/or Dong Seo, with a Hong Kong outfit called Pan Sang East possibly collaborating with Dong Seo), because the work is virtually identical to work on "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends", as well as other Marvel shows of that period, not to mention several Ruby/Spears productions. “Amazing” explicitly credits an "association" with MiHahn, and “Incredible Hulk” is said to be from Pan Sang East. I have seen credits from either “Hulk” or “Hulk & Spider-Man” that mention Pan Sang East. It’s my guess the "Philippines" remark references something from these ranks, although they're not located there. Those eps are '''not''' AKOM-style to my eyes, and apparently no one has challenged this for a long time. Previously, I didn't rule out the possibility that this unknown studio may have ended up as an AKOM sub-contractor, because we have evidence of AKOM outsourcing due to the Sam Young materials. However, more evidence from Megna leads me to what may be a conclusion.

'''IF it is TRUE that''' 1) Dong Seo worked on “Spider-Friends”, “Hulk”, and several Ruby/Spears shows, 2) Steven Hahn founded MiHahn (which produced for “Spider-Friends” apparently with Dong Seo) in 1984, then founded Hanho Heung-Up soon afterward, out of animators at Dong Seo, 3) MiHahn and Hanho then formed a partnership on several 80’s shows, mostly for Nelvana in Canada, '''THEN''' the animation in “those three” could plausibly have been produced ''after'' the combination of MiHahn/Hanho was in effect, but ''before'' AKOM was formally established in '85, especially considering the talk at TV Tropes that Marvel didn’t want to keep paying Toei. Until I get contradicting info, '''I'm awfully close to concluding that those 3 are “Hanho Heung-Up” or “Mihahn & Hanho Heung-Up” productions.''' Interestingly, Toei and Hanho are said to have worked on "Turbo Teen". I’d still like to know what the deal was with Pan Sang East, tho.

===Overlap?===
Some folks have it right that because one studio claims an ep, it doesn’t preclude other studios laying claim to the same ep. The numbers from Toei and AKOM imply some overlap. I have come to rely on depictions of Megatron for identifying Toei works, and Starscream for identifying AKOM works, but it's not foolproof. I worked out all the Toei claims, stupidly not considering that the community has already done most of that good work, but the AKOM stuff will require much more study, especially since, unlike with Toei, there are no numbers on how many eps they produced for s2. '''Has anyone tried to ask Nelson Shin?''' People have indeed contacted him about possibly releasing his magnum opus “Empress Chung” internationally. Unless AKOM themselves come clean about which 39 eps they are claiming, we may never have a complete resolution. I don’t expect they’ll cooperate after decades of (some undeserved) scorn and ridicule heaped on them by the fandom, but maybe worth a shot?

'''More new evidence to consider. IF it is TRUE that''' 1) Toei, according to their resume, produced 33 out of 39 episodes of “Jem Part 2” (understood to be Seasons 2 and 3), 2) “Jem” was animated, according to Megna, by Toei, Shin Won and Sam Young, 3) the work went to Shin Won and Sam Young because, according to TV Tropes, Marvel couldn’t afford to keep paying Toei for this show, 4) AKOM (which employed Sam Young) produced six of these 39 eps of “Jem”, according to Wikipedia, 5) Shin Won, according to TV Tropes, worked on specific eps of “Transformers” Season 2, '''THEN''' the question that could blow this case wide open becomes: '''What if Shin Won was indeed another AKOM subcontractor?''' I said before that Shin Won might not have done anything beyond in-betweening, but that was because I assumed they worked for Toei, but if it was AKOM, then that changes the game. The problem so far is they don’t seem to be working for AKOM in every show said to be theirs, and I’m also ''highly skeptical'' of some of the Shin Won assertions at TV Tropes, but I admit it’s an interesting clue.

===Recycling===
Recycled animation is virtually a dead giveaway for identifying studios. I started with the idea that any ep that reuses animation from Toei could be assumed to be claimed by Toei. I strongly suspected that even if an episode has nothing else from Toei except that Prime animation, then Toei claims it. “Attack of the Autobots” doesn’t seem to have anything else Toei-like, but I'm not sold in either direction yet. Same for "Starscream's Brigade", which is likely a cheap Sei Young product, but has the Prime sequence, and also a Lazerbeak eject sequence actually re-traced from the original shot in the Toei-produced "Changing Gears". I am marking stuff like this in my research. It’s not just Prime: “Golden Lagoon” features stock Toei animation of Omega Supreme; a Bruticus merge is repeated in “Aerial Assault”; certain cassette ejections are repeated in certain episodes; etc.

===Other Eps and Other Shows===
My research spreadsheet has descriptions of certain styles from Toei such as "Traitor" animation and "Immobilizer" animation, so I could try to compare between eps, but I'm watching other shows of the period as well. “G.I. Joe” and “Defenders of the Earth”, as mentioned, are very good study resources. For example, I realized that although “Aerial Assault” is unique for Transformers, this animation (possibly in-house) is in quite a few “Joe” eps (most notably the “Pyramid of Darkness” 5-parter), and I'm now seeing plenty of this work in "Jem" eps. That's another very helpful source. In the case of Sei Young, “Defenders” gives us much more than “Surprise Party” to use as a reference, because they produced so many eps on that show. I’m convinced “Only Human” is a Sei Young product, which would actually reconcile some of the available info. Here’s why: The Toei resume indicates 13 “Part 3” eps, but also indicates a production year of “1987”; that would seem incorrect, unless they either didn’t count “The Return of Optimus Prime” (which aired Feb. ‘87) or didn't work on two of the non-AKOM eps. However, if the two Sei Young eps don’t count as Toei-produced, the numbers check out. Toei’s resume claims only two eps of “Defenders”, so we know Sei Young doesn’t count under Toei in that case. "Starscream's Brigade" is said to be done by Sei Young, and I believe that as well, but on the other hand there is also the Toei Prime animation and evidence of a "retraced" Toei shot of Soundwave, which points to a Toei claim as well. If anyone has evidence of other shows, animes and animation confirmed to be produced by certain studios mentioned here (I already checked AKOM's other stuff), please call to my attention.

'''Case in point on this subject:''' There's been a lot of activity over the past month at TV Tropes (March/April 2023), with a couple members entering a whole lot of G1 animation info. Some of it seems quite legit, some of it harder to believe, and at least one seems to have come from my offhand comment about “G.I. Joe” at "Unknown Studios" (not cool). My spreadsheet now has all this info entered under a new column called “WHO THE HELL SAYS?”, and I don’t know how to begin reconciling because, ''LIKE ALWAYS, this new info has no attribution and no source citation.'' If I had hair on my head, I’d be pulling it right out.

===Ink & Paint===
Folks should keep in mind that “later” stages in animation, such as ink & paint, could be done by other studios. I feel as though certain episodes may have farmed that work out, so when folks, for example, say that “Starscream’s Ghost” is so much better qualitatively than their other s3 works, I don’t see that as much as I see slightly better work enhanced with better ink & paint. In the case of “Only Human”, ink & paint seems to make Sei Young’s animation better than their exact same output for “Surprise Party”. “Return of Optimus” Part 2, IMO, is ''quite terrible'', but with very impressive ink & paint work that I believe makes people think the animation is better than it actually is.

User:JoseBxR

2023-05-13T02:57:30Z

JoseBxR: /* THOSE “Three” */

==About==
Music artist and Media Editor for OverClocked ReMix. 
Creative talent with absolutely no free time to create. 
Maintaining a YouTube channel for multimedia product, but so far is mostly a collection of funny English dubs of martial arts films. 
Animation maven from the prehistoric (before Internet) era. Areas of interest: U.S. theatrical shorts from 1930-1954; U.S. theatrical cel animation; Animation produced in Japan for Japan from 1970-1995; TV animation co-produced in Japan from 1980-1995.

This page is to be a repository for information regarding my research in '''identifying G1 animation works''', and also possibly information on poor G1 English dubbing, perhaps even the music from the series and my issues with presenting so many show oddities as "errors".

==All notes on identifying G1 animation (subject to change)==
Following is pure draft speculation, and is being updated constantly as I uncover new evidence. '''''Nothing is 100 percent, so please do not spread this info elsewhere, unless it's in an episode's discussion tab.''''' Everything so far is mostly attributed to "my own eyes and my own experience", which may be what got us into this mess regarding AKOM's work, but the difference with me is I keep my conclusion-jumping to an absolute minimum. Anyone can feel free to comment and point me to any and all additional, even contradictory, evidence for consideration within the discussion tab. I intend to compile video evidence of animation techniques, movement and styles between episodes '''(eps)''', and present them somewhere for the community, possibly for linking to talk pages.

===Animation Determination As Of May 12, 2023===
'''Season 1 (s1):'''
*16 TOEI and/or TOEI-Outsourced
'''Season 2 (s2):'''
*39 TOEI and/or TOEI-Outsourced
*At least 7 AKOM
**"[[Auto Berserk]]"
**"[[A Prime Problem]]"
**"[[A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court (episode)|A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court]]"
**"[[Make Tracks]]"
**"[[The Secret of Omega Supreme (episode)|The Secret of Omega Supreme]]"
**"[[Kremzeek!]]"
**"[[Triple Takeover]]"
*3 HANHO HEUNG-UP, possibly produced by MIHAHN
**"[[City of Steel (episode)|City of Steel]]"
**"[[The Autobot Run]]"
**"[[The Core]]"
'''Season 3 (s3):'''
*13 TOEI-Outsourced
*15 AKOM and/or AKOM-Outsourced
*2 SEI YOUNG
**"[[Surprise Party]]"
**"[[Only Human]]"
'''Season 4 (s4):'''
*3 AKOM

===Factual Evidence===
This collection of facts and creator claims is the basis for research on all eps, on the understanding that there may be errors here as well.

AKOM '''claims work on 39 eps''' from the entire series (according to their website)

Toei (according to archived "resume" webpage) '''claims work on'''
*'''all 3 eps''' from pilot miniseries
*'''all 13 eps''' from "Part 1" (season 1)
*'''39 eps''' from "Part 2" (season 2)
*'''13 eps''' from "Part 3" (season 3)

'''The Megna Co-Productions Database''' is quite valuable as a resource for identifying studios, but at the same time as horrifying as any other source for the lack of attributions, bibliography or citations. Major props to member [[User:Danja|Danja]] for the find.

Production materials allude to '''AKOM out-sourcing to Sam Young''' studio. Production materials belonging to Paul Davids indicate '''Sei Young worked on''' "Surprise Party", with no evidence of Toei involvement. Davids also claims some work came from a '''studio in the Philippines'''. There is confirmed evidence of '''storyboards shipped to Korea or Japan''' for preliminary work, which may or may not offer clues on the studio(s) ultimately selected for animation work.

===Challenges===
It is admittedly difficult to identify studios in general, and non-Toei animation in particular, as explained below. However, I’m still baffled as to why only three eps out of s2 were readily identified as AKOM, ''and nothing else'', considering that Nelson Shin was supervising producer, his wife was production manager, and especially with so many other eps unidentified. There should have been no “unknown studio” as understood up to this point: if it’s not Toei, then the next reasonable thought would be that ''Nelson got '''his''' people to do it''. Now that we have some numbers out there, any “unknowns” that exist will likely not match the accepted info.

I want to note here: '''the mission for now is to determine which eps are claimed by Toei and which by AKOM, that is, which studio produced key animation''', whether outsourced or in-house, and after I'm satisfied with the result, I'll see if it's possible to look into the various other studios being mentioned, keeping in mind that listing of an extra studio doesn't indicate anything more than involvement, let alone main animation production. I didn’t necessarily wish to go into the weeds of exactly who was outsourced to do which ep, but some of that work will have to be done to the extent of gathering evidence for identifying Toei and AKOM work, and maybe it’s worth trying so that the wiki could be able to link to and track all evidence linking studios to this work.

'''''I need help on citations:''''' This site links to that one tweet about Studio Look, since everyone was dying to know who was behind "Call of the Primitives" (what made you all think it was TMS? LOL), and then there is the archived Toei resume and the aforementioned Megna Database where mentions of "Nakamura", "Dai Won", etc. come from, but the latter is the only place that has apparent authority of any sort, yet still no citations. Sites such as iMDB, TV Tropes and ANN welcome contributions, but with no apparent links to authoritative resources, not even on an "some guy said to me over DMs" level. '''''This is maddening'''''. Anything real that I collect I want to try to get preserved on this page, at least until we have something better established in the community.

Speaking for myself, this process is not as easy when there aren’t enough human characters running around to compare with. Robot characters make it more difficult. Most times you can only rely on mouth movement, a few poses and possibly some special effects, and that’s about it.

The greatest difficulty with identifying AKOM work is that this show is essentially their very first product: Marvel helped establish the studio in South Korea in 1985, and they probably hit the ground running, even though their first official work may be “My Little Pony: the Movie”. There’s almost nothing else from the time period, all the way until “Spiral Zone” in 1987, and by then their style changed significantly in some areas. Still, there are some good clues in that show, ''and they credit the animators''!

Some folks are using “models” as a way of identifying animation. Although bad animation wouldn’t necessarily follow models anyway, and I wouldn’t want us to overthink about how something ''looks'', at the expense of how something ''moves'', this could be helpful in spots. In the case of Hoist, it helps me confirm where there’s a previous suspicion; The “alternate" Hoist model is identified only in eps that I already suspected were done by AKOM.

AKOM's majority of work in s3 is on another level of garbage generally, and IMO it should not be used as any sort of guide for comparing techniques in other seasons or shows. It just doesn't look like anything else out there; it seems to be almost exclusively the work of Sam Young, and I hesitate to even assign blame to AKOM, except for agreeing to outsource work to this bootleg outlet. AKOM ''is'' capable of good animation, even great animation in the view of some. They apparently allowed their dregs to work on s3, but s2 had a few legit awesome sequences. I’m convinced “A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur’s Court” is one of theirs, and it’s arguably their best TF work. By the time s4 came around, AKOM settled on a style similar to most contemporaneous South Korean output, but still characterized by their almost singular sloppy line work.

===THOSE “Three”===
"City of Steel", "The Autobot Run" and "The Core" are in my view very, very obviously produced by some studio out of South Korea employed by Marvel around this time (basically MiHahn and/or Dong Seo, with a Hong Kong outfit called Pan Sang East possibly collaborating with Dong Seo), because the work is virtually identical to work on "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends", as well as other Marvel shows of that period, not to mention several Ruby/Spears productions. “Amazing” explicitly credits an "association" with MiHahn, and “Incredible Hulk” is said to be from Pan Sang East. I have seen credits from either “Hulk” or “Hulk & Spider-Man” that mention Pan Sang East. It’s my guess the "Philippines" remark references something from these ranks, although they're not located there. Those eps are '''not''' AKOM-style to my eyes, and apparently no one has challenged this for a long time. Previously, I didn't rule out the possibility that this unknown studio may have ended up as an AKOM sub-contractor, because we have evidence of AKOM outsourcing due to the Sam Young materials. However, more evidence from Megna leads me to what may be a conclusion.

'''IF it is TRUE that''' 1) Dong Seo worked on “Spider-Friends”, “Hulk”, and several Ruby/Spears shows, 2) Steven Hahn founded MiHahn (which produced for “Spider-Friends” apparently with Dong Seo) in 1984, then founded Hanho Heung-Up soon afterward, out of animators at Dong Seo, 3) MiHahn and Hanho then formed a partnership on several 80’s shows, mostly for Nelvana in Canada, '''THEN''' the animation in “those three” could plausibly have been produced ''after'' the combination of MiHahn/Hanho was in effect, but ''before'' AKOM was formally established in '85, especially considering the talk at TV Tropes that Marvel didn’t want to keep paying Toei. Until I get contradicting info, '''I'm awfully close to concluding that those 3 are “Hanho Heung-Up” or “Mihahn & Hanho Heung-Up” productions.''' Interestingly, Toei and Hanho are said to have worked on "Turbo Teen". I’d still like to know what the deal was with Pan Sang East, tho.

===Overlap?===
Some folks have it right that because one studio claims an ep, it doesn’t preclude other studios laying claim to the same ep. The numbers from Toei and AKOM imply some overlap. I have come to rely on depictions of Megatron for identifying Toei works, and Starscream for identifying AKOM works, but it's not foolproof. I worked out all the Toei claims, stupidly not considering that the community has already done most of that good work, but the AKOM stuff will require much more study, especially since, unlike with Toei, there are no numbers on how many eps they produced for s2. '''Has anyone tried to ask Nelson Shin?''' People have indeed contacted him about possibly releasing his magnum opus “Empress Chung” internationally. Unless AKOM themselves come clean about which 39 eps they are claiming, we may never have a complete resolution. I don’t expect they’ll cooperate after decades of (some undeserved) scorn and ridicule heaped on them by the fandom, but maybe worth a shot?

'''More new evidence to consider. IF it is TRUE that''' 1) Toei, according to their resume, produced 33 out of 39 episodes of “Jem Part 2” (understood to be Seasons 2 and 3), 2) “Jem” was animated, according to Megna, by Toei, Shin Won and Sam Young, 3) the work went to Shin Won and Sam Young because, according to TV Tropes, Marvel couldn’t afford to keep paying Toei for this show, 4) AKOM (which employed Sam Young) produced six of these 39 eps of “Jem”, according to Wikipedia, 5) Shin Won, according to TV Tropes, worked on specific eps of “Transformers” Season 2, '''THEN''' the question that could blow this case wide open becomes: '''What if Shin Won was indeed another AKOM subcontractor?''' I said before that Shin Won might not have done anything beyond in-betweening, but that was because I assumed they worked for Toei, but if it was AKOM, then that changes the game. The problem so far is they don’t seem to be working for AKOM in every show said to be theirs, and I’m also ''highly skeptical'' of some of the Shin Won assertions at TV Tropes, but I admit it’s an interesting clue.

===Recycling===
Recycled animation is virtually a dead giveaway for identifying studios. I started with the idea that any ep that reuses animation from Toei could be assumed to be claimed by Toei. I strongly suspected that even if an episode has nothing else from Toei except that Prime animation, then Toei claims it. “Attack of the Autobots” doesn’t seem to have anything else Toei-like, but I'm not sold in either direction yet. Same for "Starscream's Brigade", which is likely a cheap Sei Young product, but has the Prime sequence, and also a Lazerbeak eject sequence actually re-traced from the original shot in the Toei-produced "Changing Gears". I am marking stuff like this in my research. It’s not just Prime: “Golden Lagoon” features stock Toei animation of Omega Supreme; a Bruticus merge is repeated in “Aerial Assault”; certain cassette ejections are repeated in certain episodes; etc.

===Other Eps and Other Shows===
My research spreadsheet has descriptions of certain styles from Toei such as "Traitor" animation and "Immobilizer" animation, so I could try to compare between eps, but I'm watching other shows of the period as well. “G.I. Joe” and “Defenders of the Earth”, as mentioned, are very good study resources. For example, I realized that although “Aerial Assault” is unique for Transformers, this animation (possibly in-house) is in quite a few “Joe” eps (most notably the “Pyramid of Darkness” 5-parter), and I'm now seeing plenty of this work in "Jem" eps. That's another very helpful source. In the case of Sei Young, “Defenders” gives us much more than “Surprise Party” to use as a reference, because they produced so many eps on that show. I’m convinced “Only Human” is a Sei Young product, which would actually reconcile some of the available info. Here’s why: The Toei resume indicates 13 “Part 3” eps, but also indicates a production year of “1987”; that would seem incorrect, unless they either didn’t count “The Return of Optimus Prime” (which aired Feb. ‘87) or didn't work on two of the non-AKOM eps. However, if the two Sei Young eps don’t count as Toei-produced, the numbers check out. Toei’s resume claims only two eps of “Defenders”, so we know Sei Young doesn’t count under Toei in that case. "Starscream's Brigade" is said to be done by Sei Young, and I believe that as well, but on the other hand there is also the Toei Prime animation and evidence of a "retraced" Toei shot of Soundwave, which points to a Toei claim as well. If anyone has evidence of other shows, animes and animation confirmed to be produced by certain studios mentioned here (I already checked AKOM's other stuff), please call to my attention.

'''Case in point on this subject:''' There's been a lot of activity over the past month at TV Tropes (March/April 2023), with a couple members entering a whole lot of G1 animation info. Some of it seems quite legit, some of it harder to believe, and at least one seems to have come from my offhand comment about “G.I. Joe” at "Unknown Studios" (not cool). My spreadsheet now has all this info entered under a new column called “WHO THE HELL SAYS?”, and I don’t know how to begin reconciling because, ''LIKE ALWAYS, this new info has no attribution and no source citation.'' If I had hair on my head, I’d be pulling it right out.

===Ink & Paint===
Folks should keep in mind that “later” stages in animation, such as ink & paint, could be done by other studios. I feel as though certain episodes may have farmed that work out, so when folks, for example, say that “Starscream’s Ghost” is so much better qualitatively than their other s3 works, I don’t see that as much as I see slightly better work enhanced with better ink & paint. In the case of “Only Human”, ink & paint seems to make Sei Young’s animation better than their exact same output for “Surprise Party”. “Return of Optimus” Part 2, IMO, is ''quite terrible'', but with very impressive ink & paint work that I believe makes people think the animation is better than it actually is.

Talk:Unknown Generation 1 animation studios

2023-05-13T02:52:20Z

JoseBxR: /* I'm on a mission to identify all AKOM eps and it's quite a chore (update below) */

I did wonder about [http://www.philippinebusiness.com.ph/archives/magazine/vol9-2002/9-3/industry_p2.htm this news item] which [[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] linked to on the [[Talk:Toei Animation|Talk:Toei]] page, which seems to suggest that it was Toei's Filipino branch. But that were only set up in 1986, unless they're wrong about the date... --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:48, 7 July 2009 (EDT)
::Yeah, I forgot about that little nugget. I added it to the article, though since the dates don't match up, we can't be certain, I suppose. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 18:37, 7 July 2009 (EDT)

The current reference link for Burbank is a 404. --[[User:Flicky1991|flicky]][[User talk:Flicky1991|1991]] 14:38, 10 February 2016 (EST)

== Maybe it was Burbank Animation? ==

Maybe this studio was Burbank Animation? The studio was a Philippine division of Burbank Films Australia, based out of Makati, and multiple people who worked there mentioned several Marvel shows on their resume, including My Little Pony, Jem and Defenders of the Earth.--[[Special:Contributions/71.142.249.86|71.142.249.86]] 01:13, 4 November 2009 (EST)
:Indeed! And it was set up in 1983, so it'd fit the time period. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 02:04, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::[http://www.burbankanimation.com/ Burbank's official website] doesn't list any of their farmed-out work for other studios, unfortunately. IMDB doesn't even list their work prior to 1989. Then again, that site just seems to be focused on their Australian division with no mention of their Filipino joint. [http://asianjournal.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/filipinos-on-top-of-hollywood-animation/ This article] says the Filipino studio was founded in 1983, but I can't find anything listing the shows they've worked on. Any way we can get a link to interviews with some of those Burbank employees who said they worked on Marvel/Sunbow productions? --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 08:55, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::: I found a "Boy Sibulo Aureliano" who lists Transformers in his resume, and he wa an animator for Burbank Animations from '83 to '88. I've sent him an email. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 14:08, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::::Awesome. I know only, like, 4 people are going to end up caring, but if we manage to solve this mystery I think it'll be really, really cool. After that, we'll just have to find a way to figure out what 7 episodes from season 2 they animated. That might actually be even ''harder'' to figure out. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 14:10, 4 November 2009 (EST)
:::::Stuff like this is why the wiki exists. First we get more information on the horribly awesome (or awesomely horrible) Headmasters dub, and now the possibility of this. Fall's shaping up to be grand here. --[[User:Bluestreak7|Bluestreak7]] 14:18, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::::::Stuff like this is only going to help the wiki. (And hurt the server.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:29, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::If we can get some more names from people working for Burbank's Filipino division during hte 80s, we might be able to find their online resumes and hit paydirt. I've found [http://www.cristofani.com/resume.html a couple] [http://www.linkedin.com/in/jocelynsy so far], though none of the ones I've found list Transformers under the shows they worked on. We might be able to get lucky, though. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 14:34, 4 November 2009 (EST)
:::Keep trying. Figuring this out = this site gets a little more famous = this site gets a little more hits = this site climbs up in search engine rankings = the Squid caching system dies. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:37, 4 November 2009 (EST)
:I think Burbank is probably the most likely choice. I've been rooting around on Google and found [http://dirp3.pids.gov.ph/ris/taps/tapspp0102.pdf this PDF document] which says that the first animation company to open in the Philippines was Burbank in 83, followed by a company called Optifex and then Fil-Cartoon over the next couple of years. From various CVs and other sites I've found, Optifex was exclusively doing out-sourced work for Hanna-Barbera until 88, when Hanna-Barbera opened Fil-Cartoon as a wholly owned subsidiary and Optifex was left doing domestic animation before rebranding. So that only really leaves Burbank, who multiple people list as having worked on Jem, MLP and DotE on their CVs. Of course the other possibility is that Paul Davids was mistaken in saying that any of Transformers was sent to the Philippines and confused it with these other shows out-sourcing there. [[User:Danja|Danja]] 06:56, 14 July 2011 (EDT)
Ok, '''definitely not Burbank'''. I sent a Facebook message to Jess Espanola, currently an assistant director on the Simpsons and formerly an animator at Burbank at the time the episodes were animated and he actually replying, saying "We didn't do any Transformer shows at Burbank. Maybe Toei Animation studio did it because Toei had a subsidiary studio ijn the Philippines". [[User:Danja|Danja]] 04:54, 15 September 2011 (EDT)
:Quite out of the blue I got another Facebook message from Jess Espanola. He was in the Philippines last month and while seeing friends at Toei's Philippines branch asked about Transformers production (which is pretty awesome of him). The manager, Nestor Palabrica, confirmed that Toei Philippines did Transformers animation in '86 (so season three). Is this the first confirmation of Toei's Philippines branch working on G1? It might explain Davids' comments/memories. [[User:Danja|Danja]] 08:42, 20 June 2012 (EDT)
::Hey, uh, should this Toei stuff not be on the page? It seems to be the biggest lead we have... --[[User:Flicky1991|flicky]][[User talk:Flicky1991|1991]] 14:21, 30 June 2013 (EDT)
:::I think this has to be another mistaken recollection. The website says it was established in ''November'' 1986 - ''well'' after all of season 3 would have been produced. Literally the only thing it could refer to would be "The Return of Optimus Prime," which would mean its work is indistinguishable from Toei proper. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 19:08, 10 February 2016 (EST)
::::The original article that credited Toei's Philippine branch with working on Transformers also mentioned G.I. Joe (presumably only the Marvel/Sunbow version), the final episodes of which were broadcast in November 1986, which really messes things up! I checked the credits to the Joe movie, the only production released after this date, and there're no names or credits with an obvious Philippine connection, but there are a boatload of Japanese staff names credited under Toei. Therefore my suspicion is that the founding date of the studio genuinely might be off, and it's possible that they could actually have done some Transformers episodes prior to "The Return of Optimus Prime".

::::Being a Toei branch, I would expect them to have copies of the correct character models. Plus, Toei's old website indicated they were responsible for the animation for all 95 episodes of the original Joe series. Therefore, if the Philippine branch actually animated any of those Joe episodes, as is suggested in that article, Toei still counted it as their work. The same would have to apply to Transformers. I don't necessarily think any of the thirteen season 3 episodes most closely identified with Toei were done in the Philippines, as they generally have a higher standard of animation than many of Toei's season 2 episodes. An example of a very likely candidate for a prior episode that might have been animated by them would be "Starscream's Ghost".

::::Another possibility to muddy the waters further is that the "Transformers" credited to Toei's Philippine branch could actually have been episodes some of the later three Japanese-exclusive series. That article mentioned G.I. Joe, but also undisputed anime series Dragon Ball Z and Sailor Moon. There's a fair number of artistic variations to be found in the G1 anime episodes, particularly in Masterforce, where there are a few episodes that aren't *quite* up to scratch when it comes to character renditions.

::::Whoever the mysterious third studio was, I don't think it was Toei's Philippine branch. - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 20:06, 12 February 2016 (EST)

== [[Hasbro Q&A]] ==

Anyone tried the [[Hasbro Q&A]] yet? Maybe that ''might'' help. If no-one has, can somebody do that in the next Q&A? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 10:44, 11 June 2010 (EDT)
:No one has yet. Would Hasbro even have that information? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:59, 11 June 2010 (EDT)
:Maybe they don't.But it would be helpful if they can tell us pretty much ''anything'' whatsoever. That's better than what we have now. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 01:51, 12 June 2010 (EDT)

==Identification criteria?==

I just noticed that some while back, a user identified which episodes from season 2 were done by the Filipino studio. For the record, what visual criteria was used to identify those episodes, so I can make a note of it in the article? --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 12:10, 11 July 2013 (EDT)

==Is there any proof at all about Philippine animation?==
We're basing all of this on one writer's (who wasn't even involved in the animation production of the show) vague 30 year old recollection? I think it's very presumptuous to attribute those episodes to this likely non-existent studio. Japanese wikipedia lists Japanese studio Anime R ([[wikipedia:ja:アニメアール|アニメアール]]) as working on the show and also Korean studio [[Dai Won Animation Co.|Daewon Animation]] ([[wikipedia:ja:テウォンメディア|大元動画]]); it's more likely either of these studios did those episodes as they both worked on American cartoons during the '80s.{{unsigned|Evan1975}}

== I might have cracked it ==

If you didn't catch my edit to Inferno's article earlier today, I observed that his different head design (with a more rounded helmet, softer features, and differently-colored head fins) occurred in both "[[Auto Berserk]]" and "[[Kremzeek!]]", two episodes we'd previously suspected of being done by this mystery studio. Following this line of thought, I've done more studying, I think I might actually have spotted some visual clues that identify this studio's episodes. First off, "[[Make Tracks]]" also features Inferno's alternate head design. Further, all these episodes have a common trait - they soften the faces of new 1985 characters, by changing lines that are supposed to run from the points of their eyes down to their chins into more curved "cheekbone-ish" contours, making their faces look more like they're "one piece", instead of the collection of angled planes Toei normally do. "[[Triple Takeover]]" is another that's I've spotted that does this. Check out these comparisons of Red from "Auto-Berserk" and Astrotrain from "Triple Takeover" next to their angular, Toei faces from "The God Gambit":

[[File:Cheekbonescomparison.jpg|300px]]

I literally never noticed Astrotrain's grey helmet in this episode before, and I thought it could be another indicator to look for, but can't find any other instance of it. Adding in "[[A Prime Problem]]", which conventional wisdom has always held is animated by the same team as "[[Auto Berserk]]", that's five of the eight episodes. I've got more examining to do, but I really think I might be onto something with this - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 16:49, 12 January 2016 (EST)

:I think there were only 7 non-Toei, non-AKOM episodes from season 2, so you're even closer than you think. The onion in the ointment though is whether or not more than 7 episodes have traces of those clues. It could mean that Toei and the unknown studio did sections of the same episode (not unheard of) but that only makes things muddier. Keep us updated! --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 17:08, 12 January 2016 (EST)
::Just curious, but what's the criteria for picking "Prime Problem" out as a non-Toei episode? I recall The Guy We Had to Wipe From History had selected it, too. I don't recall it looking particularly unToei-like and the overall lack of season 2 characters to give the "cheekbone test" to makes it even harder. It also has little moments of nice animation, if I recall correctly, and the cited episodes like "Triple Takeover" and "Kremzeek" were all much more listless or just plain fugly. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 17:16, 12 January 2016 (EST)
:::It goes back to Zobovor. Both it and "Auto Berserk" have moments of pretty incomparable fluidity, and a general softness of line and warmth of colour about them. They both have scenes where a soft white "airbrush" effect is used to create a metallic effect that I don't know I've seen anywhere else in the show. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 17:21, 12 January 2016 (EST)
::::Gotcha. Now, I hate to even suggest this but... There's no guarantee that the 7 uncreditted episodes were ALL done by the same studio. There's a chance that multiple studios could have done them, hence why some seem to look better than others. OR, they could have ALL been done by the same studio like we've assumed, but different directors resulted in different looks and feels (like those season 1 episodes such as "Roll For It" that look super duper anime, while others don't look it at all). Working blind like this kinda sucks. I'm kind of wondering if we should change this article to something like "Unknown Generation 1 animation studio" rather than assume they were all done by the Filipino place (which may not have even been in the Philippines based on recent contention). --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 17:26, 12 January 2016 (EST)
:::::Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, to be honest. Fiddling around with this article to explain the sheer ambiguity of the whole thing would be a good move. If nothing else, I feel very confident about Inferno's alternate head being the biggest, most easily-spotted visual identifier. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]])
::::::OH-HO-HO!! I think I found another! In "Make Tracks," Tracks is coloured a bit differently to normal - in robot mode, he has black windows instead of clear ones, and his wheels are the same grey as his arms and legs, instead of the darker shade they normally are. Now, "Make Tracks" has the alternate Inferno head design, so I thought this alternate color model could be another hallmark to look out for, and after some searching, it appears in only one other episode - "The Secret of Omega Supreme", another famously shoddy one that was suspected of being non-Toei! That's six.... one more to suss out!! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 15:56, 22 January 2016 (EST)
:::::::It's always been a difficult exercise to try and identify the non-Toei, non-AKOM episodes of season 2, particularly since Toei clearly had multiple teams of animators working on the series. We know Toei did all of season 1 for instance, but there's a wild variation of animation styles and quality to be seen in those 16 episodes. Thus, the difference between a poorly animated Toei episode and one of the Filipino-animated episodes is not necessarily that distinct (such as the really shoddy Toei animation in "Divide and Conquer" or "The Ultimate Doom Part 1").
:::::::Two episodes not mentioned that I used to be fairly sure were animated by the Filipino studio are "[[War Dawn (episode)|War Dawn]]" and "[[Starscream's Brigade]]"; the style in both of them is just a little too off at times, particularly in the latter episode, even accounting for Toei's quality range. I agree that another suspect episode was "[[The Secret of Omega Supreme (episode)|The Secret of Omega Supreme]]", and as an added bonus, Astrotrain has his grey helmet in that episode too. His helmet is purple in "Starscream's Brigade", but they might have had access to the correct colour model by then.
:::::::That takes us to eight episodes, so the one I'd be tempted to knock off the list would be "A Prime Problem"; it's not up to standard efforts clearly from Toei, but other than the "airbrush" effect I wouldn't be quite as quick to identify it as one of the Filipino episodes, but instead a sub-par Toei effort.
:::::::From a real-world perspective, it probably makes sense that there would be a smattering of episodes from this studio produced roughly mid-to-late range in season 2, when Toei would also have been assigning animators to the Movie. - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 17:07, 22 January 2016 (EST)
::::::::I, too, considered "Starscream's Brigade," because it has that very soft, warm look, but I've discounted it because Grapple and Astrotrain (and following today's discovery, yep, Tracks) have the correct color models in it. We know from Akom's series-long goofs, it just wasn't likely that updated versions of these things got sent around. I DID miss that Astrotrain has the alternate helmet in "Secret," though!
::::::::Although it's certainly the case with "Secret" or "Kremzeek," I don't really think of "sub-par" as being a way of defining the non-Akom/Toei episodes. "A Prime Problem" and "Auto Berserk" have some really beautiful moments of fluid, high-frame rate stuff in them (the auto-scout weaving between the crytals, the missile shooting down the corridor into the bunker) that I don't know I can think of a really comparable example of from a Toei episodes. I spotted something similar in "Make Tracks" today, when Sideswipe tackles Ravage, that ties them together for me. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 17:20, 22 January 2016 (EST)
:::::::::For "sub-par", I'd refer to the actual character renderings rather than the fluidity of the animation itself, as the AKOM episodes are well-known for having some exceptionally fluid animated sequences. I still strongly suspect "Starscream's Brigade" was one of their episodes and that they simply had the colour models all updated by then. Personally, I wouldn't say it's necessarily a given that just because AKOM never received the correct colour models that the Filipino studio also never did, especially if they were a Toei subcontractor. Anyway, that's my take on it! - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 18:41, 22 January 2016 (EST)
:::::::::::I can't deny, I keep coming back to "Brigade," because it does have that soft-lined quality. But I'd still say "Prime Problem" or "Auto Berserk" have better character renderings than a low-end Toei episode! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 18:49, 22 January 2016 (EST)
I've been going through the suspect episodes again, and another colour-identifier to watch out for is Thrust; his shoulders and air intakes in robot mode are consistently red in every single shot he appears in both "Auto Berserk" and "Triple Takeover".

There's also a semi-recurrent error with Starscream's eyes occasionally being blue in "Auto Berserk", "Triple Takeover", and "Starscream's Brigade", but it's not quite as compelling an argument.

It's from 2012, but Zob [https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.toys.transformers/ro0LGSJfMD4/5M6uQVXqtqIJ| posted a list] on ATT (where else?) of his take on the non-Toei, non-AKOM episodes of season 2. Zob's list includes both "A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court" and "Hoist Goes Hollywood", which *really* look like Toei efforts.

Between us all, there's a consensus that "Make Tracks", "The Secret of Omega Supreme", "Kremzeek!" and "Triple Takeover" are almost certainly all non-Toei, non-AKOM episodes, and although Zob didn't include it in his list, observations on the episode make it pretty clear that "Auto Berserk" should also be included for a total 5 episodes identified.

Therefore, between all the lists, that would leave the remaining two episodes to probably be among "A Prime Problem", "War Dawn", or "Starscream's Brigade". Not much new here, but thought it worth noting! - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 17:56, 7 February 2016 (EST)
:OOh, good spot with Thrust's shoulders! I wonder what Zob was seeing "Hoist Goes Hollywood"? I can ''sort'' of see "Decepticon Raider" and "Brigade" we've talked about, but not that one. I think I'm going to put the five we've agreed upon up on the article, though. And also, move the article to a better name. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 14:22, 9 February 2016 (EST)
::Excellent work so far, as always! In the meantime, I've gone through the suspect episodes again, and I now agree with you on "A Prime Problem", and think the remaining episode is very probably "War Dawn". One of the smoking guns is the use (or lack thereof) of Toei-originated stock animation. That is, an episode featuring *two* Optimus Primes somehow doesn't use his stock transformation sequence at any point?

::Prime's stock transformation sequence does appear in "Starscream's Brigade", and they also tinker with it slightly as he gets in a whole line before actually transforming, so they clearly had access to the original cels. Every other episode that ever used the sequence was clearly a Toei-animated episode, so I think "Brigade" may just be one of their episodes assigned to a lesser team, like "Divide and Conquer" (which we know was a Toei episode).

::And of the episodes that didn't use Prime's transformation animation, this leaves "War Dawn" as the only other one that isn't in the same style as Toei's main animation teams. The aforementioned lack of season 2 characters makes this one really tough to 100% identify, but it's notable that the top of Slingshot's head is consistently white in every single shot, and we've seen before that the unknown studio were nothing if not consistent with their non-standard colours for newer characters. I know that particular error also cropped up in Toei episodes (most particularly "Aerial Assault"), but never for the entire episode, let alone one actually focussing on the Aerialbots. Yes, there's some Toei-looking shots in the episode, but these could have been retakes picked up by them later. - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 19:53, 9 February 2016 (EST)
:::Oh NICE, I would NOT have thought to look for Prime's stock footage! Actually, let's crunch the numbers on that out in the open here on the talk page for everyone playing along at home.
:::Okay, so, thanks to the Cybertron Chronicle's records of it, we know that the only season 2 episodes that DON'T have the stock footage in them are (taking its use in any two-parters as evidence that both parts were done by the same studio): "City of Steel," "The Autobot Run," "A Prime Problem," "The Core," "The Master Builders," "Auto Berserk," "Microbots," "Decepticon Raider," "Golden Lagoon," "God Gambit," "Make Tracks," "Quest for Survival," "Secret of Omega Supreme," "Kremzeek," "Sea Change," "Triple Takeover," "Prime Target," "Auto Bop," "Girl Who Loved Powerglide," "Hoist Goes Hollywood," "Aerial Assault," "War Dawn," "Trans Europe Express," "Cosmic Rust," and "BOT."
:::From that list, we can remove "City of Steel," "The Autobot Run," "The Core," "Auto Berserk," "Make Tracks," "Secret of Omega Supreme," "Kremzeek," and "Triple Takeover" as being the work of AKOM or ones we have definitely identified as "unknown studio" episodes based on the presence of outdated character models.
:::So then, going through the remaining episodes with that list of outdated character models as reference, we can eliminate the following episodes based on the fact the characters appear ''correctly'' in them: "The Master Builders" (Grapple, Inferno, and Tracks), "Microbots" (Smokescreen), "Golden Lagoon" (Thrust), "God Gambit" (Astrotrain), "Quest for Suvival" (Tracks, Smokescreen, and Grapple), "Sea Change" (Astrotrain), "Prime Target" (Astrotrain, Inferno, Grapple, and Tracks), "Auto Bop" (Tracks), "Girl Who Loved Powerglide" (Thrust), "Hoist Goes Hollywood" (Tracks, Astrotrain, and Thrust), "Trans Europe Express" (Tracks and Smokescreen), and "Cosmic Rust" (Astrotrain, Tracks, Smokescreen, and Inferno).
:::That leaves our only ''possible'' contenders as "A Prime Problem," "Decepticon Raider," "Aerial Assault," "War Dawn," and "BOT." "A Prime Problem" is visually quite distinct from all of these and I think we all agree it must be one of them. "BOT can be ruled out, as it features Ironhide using the generic Autobot laser pistol design, which only appears in Toei episodes. "Aerial Assault" is definitely ''way'' too good to be anything but a Toei episode, so that only leaves "Raider" and "War Dawn," but focusing on Slingshot's white skullcap, I checked out all his season 3 appearances, and he appears with it in ''every'' one of them animated by AKOM, which ''screams'' "outdated character model." Add that consistent use to the generally slipshod "War Dawn" (which also lacks the generic laser pistol, arming Ironhide and Ratchet with grey versions of Optimus's gun instead) and yes, I do believe we have our seven episodes!
:::Jon, what are you thoughts on my supposition that "Starscream's Ghost" and "Only Human" are also this studio's work? - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 06:57, 10 February 2016 (EST)
::::Aside from the general competence of animation being higher than an average AKOM episode, I've always had suspicions about both episodes, and before Toei's website put the numbers up I seriously thought "Only Human" could have been one of theirs. I remember Rik Bakke also saying he had a production schedule that claimed Toei animated "Starscream's Ghost", casting more suspicion on that episode, although we now know neither episode is from Toei, as the numbers literally don't add up.

::::Based on further observations, "Starscream's Ghost" and "Only Human" do look to be from the same animators as each other. I concentrated on Rodimus as he's one of the few characters prominently seen in both episodes. His spoiler is invariably depicted as being mostly horizontal rather than angled/curved (when seen from the front) in AKOM or Toei episodes. The tyres on his upper arms also seem to be coloured red quite often (like in the Toei episodes), but with the hub cap still rendered white (like the AKOM episodes). Most tellingly, his rifle is coloured the same way between both episodes, whereas otherwise it's either black (Toei) or red (AKOM).

::::One quirk both episodes share with clear AKOM episodes is the use of outdated colour schemes, as with Galvatron's pink (rather than purple "underpants". They also share with AKOM the colouring of the inside of the season 3 characters' mouths. Plus, the centre of the square just below Perceptor's chest is coloured red in AKOM episodes, as well as in "Starscream's Ghost" (it's only one shot, but it's there) and "Only Human". This is particularly notable, as in "The Secret of Omega Supreme", he has his correct colour scheme seen in Toei productions, with the square being coloured completely white. Starscream's colourful back, with the orange back cowling and blue engines, isn't seen in any other episode.

::::Another observation from the same episode is that Galvatron transforms twice, and each time this occurs, his particle cannon correctly detaches itself from his arm and joins back with him once he's transformed. AKOM really liked to "cheat" this, with the cannon being either being "swallowed up" in his transformation or simply falling out of shot, never seen to be reattaching itself. Only rarely was this depicted correctly outside of a Toei episode (although amazingly, one example can be seen in "Carnage in C-Minor").

::::Given the prominent and consistent use of outdated character designs and generally much higher-quality animation, I think it makes for a compelling argument that these two were not in fact animated by AKOM. If not for their use of blatantly outdated models, the same sort of confusion that we've seen with the seven season 2 episodes might have also applied to these two when comparing to Toei's efforts. Whether it was actually the same studio as the unknown one that worked on season 2 may still be up for debate however (why did they suddenly start using AKOM's colours for Perceptor?). But one of the biggest supporting factors, aside from animation quality, is probably their propensity for adding lips to the characters, like in their last pre-Movie episode, "War Dawn".

::::Between the shared colour schemes with AKOM, and AKOM's own episode-long use of Cyclonus's alternate character model in "The Rebirth Part 2", it's easy to see why these two episodes were lumped in with AKOM's work for years.

::::And on that note, it makes it all the more compelling an argument that maybe "Carnage in C-Minor" might not have been animated by AKOM after all either. AKOM tended to be consistent with their incorrect colour models, so it doesn't entirely make sense that for this one episode they suddenly started correctly colouring the inside of all the season 3 characters' mouths grey in every shot. AKOM look to have only stopped colouring the characters' mouths in the following season's "The Rebirth".

::::From a numbers point-of-view, it might make some sense that for season 3, Toei and AKOM both got 13 episode (i.e. a season's worth) orders, with the remaining episodes divided up into another three unknown studios. AKOM's work was bad, but there was a limit to how bad it got. "Carnage in C-Minor" is way underneath even AKOM's worst work.

::::Oh, and as a final observation I noticed two Thrusts show up with his alternate colour scheme in "Thief in the Night", if that's worth noting! - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 20:02, 12 February 2016 (EST)
:::::I find the thing I look for in particular on Rodimus is the extra trapezoid on his crotch, which isn't part of his "early" animation model, and so comes and goes from AKOM episodes depending what a particular scene is animated using. They ''always'' use the early ''colors'', though, like Galvatron (whose early model isn't very different and really quite tricky to spot), so it's never colored in, and that's made me miss it more than once when it's there. The curved tips to his shoudlers are probably a better "tell." His gun is that odd color scheme in some parts of FFoD too, as I recall.
:::::(Actually, speaking of Galvatron's early model, I ''think'' he might spend ''all'' of "Starscream's Ghost" in it.)
:::::The Perceptor thing might not be ''that'' unusual - there's at least one scene in "Triple Takeover" where Astrotrain has his purple helmet, and another in "Secret of Omega" too. If this is only one scene in "Starscream's Ghost," I ''feeeeel'' like it's maybe negligible for our purposes.
:::::It's sounding like it might be a good idea to move this page to "Unknown Generation 1 animation studio'''s'''", so we can detail all of this on it. That "thirteen episode" theory makes an ''aaaaawful'' lot of sense...
:::::I also spotted the red Thrusts after you pointed them out in the other episodes, and I went looking to see if AKOM did them too! AKOM ''also'' used grey-helmet Astrotrain consistently, I discovered! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 20:40, 12 February 2016 (EST)
===A sudden twist!===
But wait! Could it be! I've just discovered that ''Hoist'' also has an early color model! In Toei episodes, the hinge in the centre of his chest is solid orange, and his tyres are white on the circular side, and black on the edge. On his outdate model, only the outermost points of his chest hinge are orange, with the central piece being green (which is actually-toy accurate), and his tyres are completely white (which is not). Like the others, this model appears in the original advert for the toy... in "Auto Berserk"... in "Kremzeek!"... '''aaaand'''... in "Decepticon Raider"!!!! Coooooould just be we've made the wrong call on "War Dawn" - the only potential monkey wrench is that for the three shots of "Kremzeek!" he appears in, Hoist is in his outdated model for two of them, but his finalized model for one, but then, that happens with Astrotrain in other episodes too. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 17:17, 16 February 2016 (EST)
:I am consistently impressed and intimidated by your thoroughness to this endeavor. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 17:21, 16 February 2016 (EST)
::As am I. Say, it sounds like most of the 2nd year Autobot Cars have alternate models...have you tried checking [[Skids (G1)|Skids]]'s appearance in [[Triple Takeover]] for differences with his other appearance in [[Quest for Survival]]? Perhaps he had different models as well, aseeing as how he's grouped with them (sort of). Just a thought. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep|talk]]) 18:07, 16 February 2016 (EST)
:::I haven't mentioned it as we're already certain about "Triple Takeover," but he does, actually! His Toei color model is a bit piecemeal anyway, as it colors parts that ought to be the same shade of blue in a mixture of dark and pale blues. In "TT," his robot mode appearances are all tiny figures in the distance, but his windows are light instead of dark, and the top of his chest is consistently the lighter blue, compared to the darker blue it was in "Quest."
:::Red Alert also has an alternate model, but it's barely worth noting, as "Auto Berserk" is on the only "unknown studio" episode he appears in, and the only difference is that they colour him bright white instead of off-white. But that ''does'' mean that all the '85 cars have early models; I suspect these were drawn up for the commercial that starred all of them (except Skids), and were later refined. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 19:00, 16 February 2016 (EST)
::::Yes, another good catch on Hoist! The 1985 Autobot Cars commercial that his, and the other alternate models appear in, is definitely the key. I haven't seen the clearer copy that's on Youtube before now, but taking a closer look, the clear airbrushed look on Optimus Prime does look atypical for Toei's work. I wonder if the other studio animated this ad?
::::There are elements of "Raider" that do still look like Toei work, such as the faces of the human cast in multiple shots. Could this be circumstantial evidence that the other studio may have been a Japanese one? Plus the inclusion of an in-joke referencing Dungeons & Dragons (26 of its 27 episodes animated by Toei) is another element that originally threw the scent off. "Hank" may have been included in the original storyboards by a Marvel staffer, or perhaps by the same studio who did the one non-Toei D&D episode (I don't know which one it is, but it's a first season episode according to the old Toei website).
::::If Hoist's other model literally appears in no other episode that we've identified as being a Toei episode, then "Raider" *has* to be included in the list of non-Toei ones. "War Dawn" is the obvious suspect to remove, but Slingshot's persistently white skullcap is still a noteworthy anomaly. If we're agreed it's a Toei episode, then it may very well have been done by the same low-rent team that did "Starscream's Brigade".
::::With all the animation and production memorabilia collectors out there, it would be nice if *someone* had documentation that proved *something* - most crucially, the names of the other studios! - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 19:04, 17 February 2016 (EST)
:::::My only qualm with the Unknown Studio being Japanese in origin is all the bad Japanese text seen in "Kremzeek!" There's the possibility that the Unknown Studio farmed those backgrounds out to one of the Korean sub studios like Dai Won that did in-betweening and photography work, but that's getting so nitty-gritty we'd never be able to figure it out. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 10:15, 18 February 2016 (EST)
:::::Oh YEAH, look at that! I didn't look closely at Prime before but yeah, there's the airbrushing from "Auto Berserk" and "A Prime Problem!" You know, it makes an extra little touch of sense that "A Prime Problem" would be the first episode to be done by this studio, if they did this commercial, being that it's the first one to feature any new 1985 product - in the script from the Ron Friedman auction, there are even deleted scenes that show it was supposed to introduce Inferno and Ramjet as well.
:::::Y'know, I took a quick look, and Slingshot's even got his white skullcap in "Call of the Primitives." Added to the times it popped up in Toei episodes, if this was an early model (and it probably was since AKOM used it all the time), it seems like it must have made it pretty late in there. Like maybe his full-body model had the white head and his close-up head turnaround had the orange - two models that would have co-existed at Toei, and so the studio would have had them both at the same time and gone back and forth between them, but the head turnaround wouldn't likely have made it out to AKOM. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 12:05, 18 February 2016 (EST)

AND HERE'S ANOTHER!! Thinking about "Decepticon Raider" and Warpath, I remembered the inconsistency we have noted on his article about what his face did when he talked, and thought there could be something to check there. So, yes, for my sins, I have just checked... sigh... every single piece of season 2 Warpath dialogue outside of "Raider"... and they are ALL in Toei episodes, and ALL* of the episodes in which his face is shown (because he delivers a LOT of his dialogue in tank mode, and from off-screen), he has the glowing blue slats. It's only in "Raider" that his mouthplate jiggles (and taking a second look, it actually only does ''that'' in one or two scenes, not moving otherwise) which seems to me to be more evidence it's done by the Unknown Studio.

(*Mitigating circumstances for "Quest for Survival," in which Warpath does not have the slats, but the only line he speaks while his face is on-screen in the episode is the partial finishing-off of a sentence begun from off-screen, which I think is enough to mitigate them not doing the effect. His plate certainly doesn't jiggle either.) - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:48, 18 February 2016 (EST)

==That's some good work, Lou==

I didn't follow half of your sleuthing, but I believe it, so good job Chris and Jon. With the 7 episodes more or less pinpointed, do you want to update the Season 2 info boxes to state the unknown studio definitively and not just "Toei (maybe)"? --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 12:53, 18 February 2016 (EST)
::Hey, thanks, Chief! I feel pretty good about going ahead and doing that. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:48, 18 February 2016 (EST)

== Carnage in C-Minor ==

Feeling like I'm on a roll, I decided to go back to Jon's suggestion that "Carnage in C-Minor" might not have been an AKOM episode, but the work of another unknown studio, since it's ''so'' bad, and lacks AKOM's characteristic interior-mouth coloring. I don't know that I've found anything useful yet - Soundwave's still in the wrong color scheme, Devastator still uses his oudated color model, like normal AKOM episodes, but I thought Broadside might be one to look at, since his outdated model extends to his alternate forms, rather than just his robot mode. "Carnage" was his first robot mode appearance, but when AKOM animated him again in "Grimlock's New Brain," they used his finalized model, and if we've learned anything from this endeavour, it's that studios that weren't Toei didn't get updated materials. So here's what I found: in "The Killing Jar," Broadside appears only in jet mode, but it's the jet mode from his finalized model. In "Thief in the Night," he appears only in carrier mode; in his first scene, it's a conglomerate of both his early and finished models - the hull of his early model, but the communications tower of his finished model (they have different dishes) - but in his second, transporting the Autobots, it's all the old model. And in "Carnage," both his robot and jet are from the early model... but the carrier is from the ''finished'' model. So... no, I don't know what to make of that at all. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 05:42, 20 February 2016 (EST)

==Companies mentioned on animenewsnetwork.com==

Has anyone looked into the companies listed as having worked, uncredited, in the animation for the Transformers TV series according to animenewsnetwork.com ? According to them, Anime R, Ashi Productions, Kaname Production, Nakamura Production, and TMS Entertainment (Tokyo Movie Shinsha) all did so.
:Firstly, ANN isn't always an accurate source of information thanks to it being user-contributed like this wiki. So information isn't always accurate to a fault. Second, most of those companies, save Ashi, are already on the main page listed as support studios. While we can't rule out anything based on what little information we actually have on the studios to begin with, I'd highly doubt they'd be hired by anyone else but Toei to work on the series. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 20:04, 10 December 2018 (EST)

== Ashi Productions ==

The page for "[[Call of the Primitives]]" says based on the staff and timing, the episode was likely animated by this company, [[Ashi Productions]]? They don't seem to be based in the Philippines, but as a Toei subcontractor would they be a contender for this studio? - [[User:TFfan1|TFfan1]], March 29 2020, 11:09 PST
:The animation style of "Call of the Primitives" is completely different from any of the episodes we've attributed to this studio, so unlikely. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 14:14, 29 March 2020 (EDT)

== Sei Young Animation Co ==

A possibility worth exploring is Korean company Sei Young Animation Co. Marvel used them for 63 episodes of Defenders Of The Earth in 1985 and 1986. They had a very Toei-esque style, having collaborated with them at various points since 1978. It would make sense if the purpose of sending 10 episodes to other studios in season 2, apart from the immediate benefit of taking pressure off Toei, was a test run before commissioning these studios full-time on other shows (AKOM would gradually become Marvel's primary animator). [[User:Greebtron|Greebtron]] ([[User talk:Greebtron|talk]]) 20:18, 21 April 2020 (EDT)
: I think you might be on to something here, at least with a few of the uglier looking episodes like "Kremzeek". It reminds me a bit of the feel and quality seen in some Toei-associated episodes of the time like "Child's Play" or "The Gambler". Heck, it actually wouldn't surprise me if Sei Young actually did those episodes too (under contract of Toei and not Marvel directly, of course). But that's just my thoughts on the matter, anyway. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 19:43, 20 July 2020 (EDT)

== (Season 3) Toei's 13th episode? ==

So I was skimming through the Season 3 episode articles because this was bothering me, but since "Surprise Party" was recently found out to be a Sei Young episode, that leaves Toei with only twelve confirmed Season 3 episodes, even though their resume says they did thirteen.

So my theories are:

1. Either "Surprise Party" was a Toei episode that Sei Young worked on (which would be expected giving their working relationship) and Sei Young simply sent Marvel the finished episode in Toei's place (I don't know the ins-and-outs of outsourcing animation but I think it's a possibility), leaving "Call of the Primitives" the weird outlier.

OR

2. "Surprise Party" was directly assigned to Sei Young, and "Call of the Primitives" was assigned to Toei, and Toei decided to subcontract the work to another studio (possibly Ashi Productions, going by the trivia note on the episode page). We know AKOM did the same thing with "Starscream's Ghost" and "Only Human", so it's not without precedent.

I could just be rambling nonsense, and the edit to the "Surprise" article was very recent, but I felt this needed to be brought up. --[[User:TheAmazingPoncho|TheAmazingPoncho]] ([[User talk:TheAmazingPoncho|talk]]) 21:33, 28 July 2020 (EDT)

== A possibility, perhaps? ==

So seeing how we finally found out that "Call' was a Toei episode farmed to another company ([[Studio Look]]), it got me wondering about Ashi Pro's involvement in the series regarding their work on the show and I found [https://w.atwiki.jp/sakuga/?cmd=word&word=%E3%83%88%E3%83%A9%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B9%E3%83%95%E3%82%A9%E3%83%BC%E3%83%9E%E3%83%BC&type=&pageid=309 this]. It mentions both Habara's involvement on "Heavy Metal War" and Ashi's overall work on the show to his best recollection. The other episodes featured are labeled as "3, 8, 13, 22 and 32". Problem number 1 is that it's difficult as to what order the list is referring to as the English and Japanese broadcast airings are different to both.

Going by the English order, the episodes consist of "More Than Meets the Eye, Part 3", "S.O.S. Dinobots", "The Ultimate Doom, Part 3", "The Imobilizer" and "The Master Builders". Whereas in Japanese, while the first episode is identical, the other ones in that order consists of "War of the Dinobots", "Traitor", "A Prime Problem" and "The God Gambit". Problem no. 2 with that is with the Japanese order, which just straight on Toei or Korean-contracted-under-Toei titles (barring "Prime Problem", which we know is the work of the still-unidentified mystery studio), so I assume the page meant the original English order, which by extension marks "Roll For It" as a possible Ashi episode due to the similarities between it and "S.O.S." But again, that order is also pretty suspect as neither "Imobilizer" or "Master Builders" look anything like an Ashi-contracted episode and more like one of the Toei-supervised Korean episodes of Season 2.

Still, thought this was interesting all things considered. Any thoughts? [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 17:14, 12 September 2020 (EDT)
:What if you exclude the More Than Meets the Eye miniseries from the enumeration? It was produced separately, after all. What are episodes 3, 8, 13, 22, and 32 then? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 19:00, 12 September 2020 (EDT)
:And could it only be referring to Season 2? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 19:03, 12 September 2020 (EDT)
::Now that's the million dollar question I want to know the answer to, as the page I linked to considers it and the rest of Season 1 as one entity and not two separately produced batches. Not to mention this very wiki doesn't seem to discern the difference either and lumps the pilot in with the rest of the series, so I'm mostly basing my speculations towards that. Also, I think the count is for both, Seasons 1 and 2 if we take that into consideration. Only thing to do now is either ask Habara for clarification or wait until production sheets for the first two seasons surface before making better judgement.[[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 11:43, 14 September 2020 (EDT)
:::Seasons 1 and 2 use the same format of production codes, but the pilot is separate. The pilot is codes 4023, 4024, and 4025. Season 1 proper runs from 700-01 to 700-13 and Season 2 runs from 700-16 to 700-64. You have to go to the individual episode pages to get these, though. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 11:49, 14 September 2020 (EDT)
::::3 = [[Divide and Conquer]], 8 = [[The Ultimate Doom, Part 1]], 13 = [[Heavy Metal War]], 22 = [[The Autobot Run]], and 32 = [[Auto Berserk]], based on production codes.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 10:56, 21 September 2020 (EDT)
:::::And that makes no sense we we already know The Autobot Run is very obviously AKOM, which again brings up the question of what the source I found is exactly meaning with its episode order. There's also the fact that the page seem to explicitly mention Heavy Metal War's order in both versions of the series (10 in Japanese, 16 in the original US). So I don't really know what to think.[[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 14:29, 26 September 2020 (EDT)

== Asking Dery ==

This might be opening a ''terrible'' idea (I've read his talk page), but do you think if anyone could get a hold of Floro Dery he could shed some light on this? He was a design supervisor and ''might'' have some info? I also have no idea if he's lived in the Philippines for all this time but if he was in the animation scene around then he might have a better idea of what studios were operating at the time that could've been the illusive studio. [[User:TransFormersfan1|TransFormersfan1]] ([[User talk:TransFormersfan1|talk]]) 13:18, 2 December 2020 (EST)

== Another Possibility ==

Been sitting on this for a while now, but a thought crossed my mind fairly recently. With the reveal that Sei Young was the one responsible (or at least credited for) Surprise Party, it got me to thinking- What if one or more of the episodes attributed to this unknown studio are actually Sei Young's work? Comparing their work on Surprise Party or even Season 2 episodes credited to Toei like Child's Play or The Master Builders to say, Kremzeek or Triple Takeover, they look pretty similar. Call me crazy, but I certainly feel I might have stumbled onto something. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 21:25, 23 January 2021 (EST)

== A Possible Suggestion ==

I know this is probably a longshot, but has anyone actually asked any of the show's animators on the Japanese side of things? Not many of the US-based crew seem willing to answer (presuming they even have the materials to begin with), but I feel like if anyone could get in touch with an animator from the Japan side of the coin. We could hopefully get a better idea as to who did what episode. The problem though, from what I see is two-fold. The first is that I wouldn't know which among us would even know enough Japanese to properly ask the question in the first place. The second is whether or not said animators would even remember working on the show to begin with (assuming they did in the first place). Especially since for most of them it'd be among their first credits, and animators who were active during the 1980s usually seem to ignore that period where Japan got most of America's animation outside of some exceptions. Either way though, I think it'd be worth an attempt if nothing more. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 01:16, 15 July 2022 (EDT)

==Shin Won?==

I tweeted to the Wiki account and [[User:Chris_McFeely|Chris McFeely]] about this last year and promptly forgot all about it, but it's a possible lead. The [https://web.archive.org/web/20211201064759/https://digilander.libero.it/dottor_vaffa/ Megna Co-Productions database] lists the following studios as having worked on Transformers: Toei, Sei Young, Dai Won, Shin Won, Sam Young and Akom. Most of those are accounted for here, except Shin Won, so I did some digging.

According to the [https://www.kmdb.or.kr/db/per/00003442 Korean Movie Database] they were known as "Educational Fairy Tale" (or just Gyoyuk, which I guess is Korean for educational fairy tale - I'm using Google Translate for most of this) until 1986, when they became Shin Won and then "Production Grimi" in the late 90s. They're now defunct, it seems. Their [https://web.archive.org/web/20030215231041fw_/http://www.grimi.co.kr/index02.html official website circa 2003] (thanks to the Wayback Machine) has them claiming credit for work on various anime, Transformers, GI Joe, Jem, Real Ghostbusters, Dennis and, crucially, Teddy Ruxpin. Checking back on Megna, the Shin Won is the ''only'' studio attributed to Teddy Ruxpin. The [https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/company.php?id=1361 Anime News Network] profile for them has them credited on different shows with everything from "colour co-ordination check" to in-betweening to finish animation to paint to just "animation". So while it's entirely possible their contribution to Transformers was out-source assistance work to Toei or Akom, like Dai Won and Sam Young, that variety of contributions and Teddy Ruxpin suggests they're capable of producing entire episodes independently and so could be the mystery studio.

There are potential issues with this of course. First is that Wikipedia credits Teddy Ruxpin to Atkinson Film-Arts (along with DiC), who I don't know enough about to know whether they animated in-house or out-sourced the main work uncredited. Megna doesn't mention Atkinson at all for Teddy Ruxpin. Second is that Megna doesn't cite its sources, although Shin Won's own website is presumably the source in this case. Would they have reason to lie? Seems unlikely, but can't be ruled out, I guess. I suppose the acid test would be watching some Teddy Ruxpin. [[User:Danja|Danja]] ([[User talk:Danja|talk]]) 07:02, 26 January 2023 (EST)

:It's possible, That database is weird when it comes to listing outsourcing studios. And given how little we know about the studios in question (acid testing is how I was able to deduce some of the efforts of Anime R, Nakamura Pro, and Studio Look for Toei's episodes since two of them --R and Look-- lack websites and the third --Nakamura Pro-- ''has'' a website, but lacks a proper resume thanks to all the work they've done), it's possible we might have Shin Won doing an episode or two on their own. And if so, I can see them handling "Krmezeek", "Triple Takeover" and "The Secret of Omega Supreme" at least, leaving "Make Tracks", "A Prime Problem" and "Auto-Berserk" the remaining outliers if that is the case.

:As far as Teddy Ruxpin is concerned, Atkinson handled most of the pre-production services. The animation, as per usual with DiC, went to Asian studios uncredited (no idea if this tied into union rules being exploited like with Marvel, or DiC just being dicks), so Shin Won being involved might be something to look into so we can try and acid wash some of their episodes. Again, it bites not having the proper documentation for these things.[[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 05:18, 4 February 2023 (EST)

UPDTATE (since I forgot this thought initially): Is it possible that Shin Won also worked on some of the uglier-looking Toei episodes as well? I'm looking over some of the more infamous ones like "Child's Play" and "Starscream's Brigade" (credited to both Nakamura Pro and Sei Young alongside Toei currently; though I have my doubts about the Korean studio's involvement going over it), and it certainly feels like "Kremzeek" and "Triple Takeover" both have similar faults as the other episodes I just mentioned. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 13:25, 14 February 2023 (EST)

:Speaking of acid tests, that's exactly what I did regarding "Teddy Ruxpin", so I'll mention that I had no help there. Good news is, the Megna database seems to be the most accurate resource to date, so I count this and the fact that most of our "research material" is readily available on youtube as the two most important breakthroughs. Bad news, at least as far as "Teddy" is concerned, is that Megna may only be listing Korean OEM in this case, so stuff has to be missing. "Teddy" makes no sense in that some episodes are clearly done in Japan and some in Korea, but they list a "Kazumi Fukushima" as "animation director" or "animation consultant", but also credit "key animation" to a bunch of people with ''Western'' and ''European'' names! What?!? I was much more successful after watching "Jem", because there are only 11 episodes not produced by Toei, they look quite a bit different from the rest, but also have, to my eyes, no similarity whatsoever to anything on "Transformers". I feel comfortable saying that Shin Won could not have done anything above the level of in-between work. [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 19:40, 7 May 2023 (EDT)

==I'm on a mission to identify all AKOM eps and it's quite a chore (update below)==

Longtime G1 fan, 1st time caller here. I can't say much now, because I have zero free time, but I'm just starting a couple of huge projects relating to a library of G1 episodes I'm editing for my personal collection, and it would likely be of interest to the community here. One project is heavy research on who did what animation. This started because I've been away from the fandom for decades, and noticed recently a hell of a lot of errors in information regarding the animation studios involved. This has been going on since I came across Hasbro Pulse TF eps on youtube several months ago, and you will see tons of comments left by me saying basically those 3 episodes (you know the ones) were absolutely NOT by AKOM, and a bunch of other mistaken assumptions came out of that mistaken assumption. It's amazing that no one seemed to make the connection to other, earlier Marvel shows. Remember "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends"? Since TF first aired, I immediately recognized animation similar to that show. Three eps are by Toei, but for all the rest, the credits say "Produced in association with MiHahn, Inc." They were a South Korean outfit, which according to scant info also outsourced to other studios. Whether any of those are based in the Phillipines, I don't know, but as far as I'm concerned, I go with "suspected to be by MiHahn". I'm maintaining a spreadsheet, and I will take everything else written here into consideration. When I'm finished identifying all AKOM eps to the best of my ability to detect these various animation techniques, I will let folks know. [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 20:27, 6 April 2023 (EDT)

:Anything helps, I'm getting really tired of trying to identify episodes by eye to the point I don't know how many I have accurate and how many I'm completely wrong about (the downside to acid testing is that there are plenty of episodes with similar styles). Both for Toei and AKOM alike. This is why I wish we had full production materials, if they still exist, regarding who did what, so can't wait for that spreadsheet. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 20:31, 8 April 2023 (EDT)

::Agreed with everything you say, but I haven't given up identifying by looking just yet. I now have other asks and thoughts available, '''so here's my update'''. I haven't completely ruled out AKOM possibly subcontracting whoever worked on what I call the three Season 2 "PSE-style" eps (for "Pan Sang East"). It's certainly not in-house. If that's what's happened, then I currently believe the ten non-Toei eps from Season 2 are all AKOM. I left a discussion note in "Only Human", and I'm writing one now for "Triple Takeover". I'm not ready to share the spreadsheet, but all of my thoughts and best guesses so far are now at my user page, and anyone can feel free to discuss there; I promise to consider everything. [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2023 (EDT)

::One more thing, because it occurred to me after being at the chat and after more research: I've said that Sam Young in Season 3 was such trash there's no point in comparing with anything else, but I've just run all the way thru the "Jem" series, and Sam Young's work seems to be quite a bit better, and that makes for a good reminder that '''budget''' may play as much of a role as any studio. We say that "Brigade" looks particularly nasty, so it couldn't be Sei Young, but I do see enough similarities that I don't disbelieve Sei Young involvement; it could be a matter of a lower budget making things worse and smushing the hell out of Powerglide's face, at least in this case. Check out the G.I. Joe episode "Haul Down the Heavens": I'm almost convinced it's the same situation, a really janky version of Sei Young. Some Sei Young stuff in "Defenders of the Earth" can get hella janky too at times. By the same token, Sam Young may have some arguably decent work in the "Jem" series, and then we get G1 "Carnage". I'm actually jealous of how many times Toei's good teams help the ladies out while us "lousy Autobot lovers" get shipped to Korea. [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2023 (EDT)

UPDATE: I don't want to repeat myself since all new info is reflected on my user page, but there are three interesting developments that I'll summarize here. '''First:''' I'm calling it.... "those three" are probably by '''Hanho Heung-Up''', possibly produced by MiHahn. I'm sorry I didn't catch the info earlier at Megna, but their summaries at the "home" page seem to point to this conclusion. '''Second:''' It was hinted at by Danja, but to me is now a serious consideration. That is, what if Shin Won was indeed another AKOM subcontractor? I said before that Shin Won might not have done anything beyond in-betweening, but that was because I assumed they worked for Toei, but if it was AKOM, it'd be nice to hope that would blow this case wide open, especially considering.... '''Third:''' Have you seen TV Tropes lately? suddenly, over the past month there's been a lot of new info entered regarding who did what on G1. Shin Won, Dai Won, Doga Kobo, etc.! I don't trust all of it - some info seems quite implausible - but the most interesting info concerns Shin Won working on episodes I always suspected were from AKOM. I'm considering all of it, but '''''GOT''''' dammit, ''why are there no citations?!?!?''

User:JoseBxR

2023-05-13T02:38:31Z

JoseBxR: /* All notes on identifying G1 animation (subject to change) */

==About==
Music artist and Media Editor for OverClocked ReMix. 
Creative talent with absolutely no free time to create. 
Maintaining a YouTube channel for multimedia product, but so far is mostly a collection of funny English dubs of martial arts films. 
Animation maven from the prehistoric (before Internet) era. Areas of interest: U.S. theatrical shorts from 1930-1954; U.S. theatrical cel animation; Animation produced in Japan for Japan from 1970-1995; TV animation co-produced in Japan from 1980-1995.

This page is to be a repository for information regarding my research in '''identifying G1 animation works''', and also possibly information on poor G1 English dubbing, perhaps even the music from the series and my issues with presenting so many show oddities as "errors".

==All notes on identifying G1 animation (subject to change)==
Following is pure draft speculation, and is being updated constantly as I uncover new evidence. '''''Nothing is 100 percent, so please do not spread this info elsewhere, unless it's in an episode's discussion tab.''''' Everything so far is mostly attributed to "my own eyes and my own experience", which may be what got us into this mess regarding AKOM's work, but the difference with me is I keep my conclusion-jumping to an absolute minimum. Anyone can feel free to comment and point me to any and all additional, even contradictory, evidence for consideration within the discussion tab. I intend to compile video evidence of animation techniques, movement and styles between episodes '''(eps)''', and present them somewhere for the community, possibly for linking to talk pages.

===Animation Determination As Of May 12, 2023===
'''Season 1 (s1):'''
*16 TOEI and/or TOEI-Outsourced
'''Season 2 (s2):'''
*39 TOEI and/or TOEI-Outsourced
*At least 7 AKOM
**"[[Auto Berserk]]"
**"[[A Prime Problem]]"
**"[[A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court (episode)|A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court]]"
**"[[Make Tracks]]"
**"[[The Secret of Omega Supreme (episode)|The Secret of Omega Supreme]]"
**"[[Kremzeek!]]"
**"[[Triple Takeover]]"
*3 HANHO HEUNG-UP, possibly produced by MIHAHN
**"[[City of Steel (episode)|City of Steel]]"
**"[[The Autobot Run]]"
**"[[The Core]]"
'''Season 3 (s3):'''
*13 TOEI-Outsourced
*15 AKOM and/or AKOM-Outsourced
*2 SEI YOUNG
**"[[Surprise Party]]"
**"[[Only Human]]"
'''Season 4 (s4):'''
*3 AKOM

===Factual Evidence===
This collection of facts and creator claims is the basis for research on all eps, on the understanding that there may be errors here as well.

AKOM '''claims work on 39 eps''' from the entire series (according to their website)

Toei (according to archived "resume" webpage) '''claims work on'''
*'''all 3 eps''' from pilot miniseries
*'''all 13 eps''' from "Part 1" (season 1)
*'''39 eps''' from "Part 2" (season 2)
*'''13 eps''' from "Part 3" (season 3)

'''The Megna Co-Productions Database''' is quite valuable as a resource for identifying studios, but at the same time as horrifying as any other source for the lack of attributions, bibliography or citations. Major props to member [[User:Danja|Danja]] for the find.

Production materials allude to '''AKOM out-sourcing to Sam Young''' studio. Production materials belonging to Paul Davids indicate '''Sei Young worked on''' "Surprise Party", with no evidence of Toei involvement. Davids also claims some work came from a '''studio in the Philippines'''. There is confirmed evidence of '''storyboards shipped to Korea or Japan''' for preliminary work, which may or may not offer clues on the studio(s) ultimately selected for animation work.

===Challenges===
It is admittedly difficult to identify studios in general, and non-Toei animation in particular, as explained below. However, I’m still baffled as to why only three eps out of s2 were readily identified as AKOM, ''and nothing else'', considering that Nelson Shin was supervising producer, his wife was production manager, and especially with so many other eps unidentified. There should have been no “unknown studio” as understood up to this point: if it’s not Toei, then the next reasonable thought would be that ''Nelson got '''his''' people to do it''. Now that we have some numbers out there, any “unknowns” that exist will likely not match the accepted info.

I want to note here: '''the mission for now is to determine which eps are claimed by Toei and which by AKOM, that is, which studio produced key animation''', whether outsourced or in-house, and after I'm satisfied with the result, I'll see if it's possible to look into the various other studios being mentioned, keeping in mind that listing of an extra studio doesn't indicate anything more than involvement, let alone main animation production. I didn’t necessarily wish to go into the weeds of exactly who was outsourced to do which ep, but some of that work will have to be done to the extent of gathering evidence for identifying Toei and AKOM work, and maybe it’s worth trying so that the wiki could be able to link to and track all evidence linking studios to this work.

'''''I need help on citations:''''' This site links to that one tweet about Studio Look, since everyone was dying to know who was behind "Call of the Primitives" (what made you all think it was TMS? LOL), and then there is the archived Toei resume and the aforementioned Megna Database where mentions of "Nakamura", "Dai Won", etc. come from, but the latter is the only place that has apparent authority of any sort, yet still no citations. Sites such as iMDB, TV Tropes and ANN welcome contributions, but with no apparent links to authoritative resources, not even on an "some guy said to me over DMs" level. '''''This is maddening'''''. Anything real that I collect I want to try to get preserved on this page, at least until we have something better established in the community.

Speaking for myself, this process is not as easy when there aren’t enough human characters running around to compare with. Robot characters make it more difficult. Most times you can only rely on mouth movement, a few poses and possibly some special effects, and that’s about it.

The greatest difficulty with identifying AKOM work is that this show is essentially their very first product: Marvel helped establish the studio in South Korea in 1985, and they probably hit the ground running, even though their first official work may be “My Little Pony: the Movie”. There’s almost nothing else from the time period, all the way until “Spiral Zone” in 1987, and by then their style changed significantly in some areas. Still, there are some good clues in that show, ''and they credit the animators''!

Some folks are using “models” as a way of identifying animation. Although bad animation wouldn’t necessarily follow models anyway, and I wouldn’t want us to overthink about how something ''looks'', at the expense of how something ''moves'', this could be helpful in spots. In the case of Hoist, it helps me confirm where there’s a previous suspicion; The “alternate" Hoist model is identified only in eps that I already suspected were done by AKOM.

AKOM's majority of work in s3 is on another level of garbage generally, and IMO it should not be used as any sort of guide for comparing techniques in other seasons or shows. It just doesn't look like anything else out there; it seems to be almost exclusively the work of Sam Young, and I hesitate to even assign blame to AKOM, except for agreeing to outsource work to this bootleg outlet. AKOM ''is'' capable of good animation, even great animation in the view of some. They apparently allowed their dregs to work on s3, but s2 had a few legit awesome sequences. I’m convinced “A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur’s Court” is one of theirs, and it’s arguably their best TF work. By the time s4 came around, AKOM settled on a style similar to most contemporaneous South Korean output, but still characterized by their almost singular sloppy line work.

===THOSE “Three”===
"City of Steel", "The Autobot Run" and "The Core" are in my view very, very obviously produced by some studio out of South Korea employed by Marvel around this time (basically MiHahn and/or Dong Seo, with a Hong Kong outfit called Pan Sang East possibly collaborating with Dong Seo), because the work is virtually identical to work on "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends", as well as other Marvel shows of that period, not to mention several Ruby/Spears productions. “Amazing” explicitly credits an "association" with MiHahn, and “Incredible Hulk” is said to be from Pan Sang East. I have seen credits from either “Hulk” or “Hulk & Spider-Man” that mention Pan Sang East. It’s my guess the "Philippines" remark references something from these ranks, although they're not located there. Those eps are '''not''' AKOM-style to my eyes, and apparently no one has challenged this for a long time. Previously, I didn't rule out the possibility that this unknown studio may have ended up as an AKOM sub-contractor, because we have evidence of AKOM outsourcing due to the Sam Young materials. However, more evidence from Megna leads me to what may be a conclusion.

'''IF it is TRUE that''' 1) Dong Seo worked on “Spider-Friends”, “Hulk”, and several Ruby/Spears shows, 2) Steven Hahn founded MiHahn (which produced for “Spider-Friends” apparently with Dong Seo) in 1984, then founded Hanho Heung-Up soon afterward, out of animators at Dong Seo, 3) MiHahn and Hanho then formed a partnership on several 80’s shows, mostly for Nelvana in Canada, '''THEN''' the animation in “those three” could plausibly have been produced ''after'' the combination of MiHahn/Hanho was in effect, but ''before'' AKOM was formally established in '85, especially considering the talk at TV Tropes that Marvel didn’t want to keep paying Toei. Until I get contradicting info, '''I'm awfully close to concluding that those 3 are “Hanho Heung-Up” or “Mihahn & Hanho Heung-Up” productions.''' I’d still like to know what the deal was with Pan Sang East, tho.

===Overlap?===
Some folks have it right that because one studio claims an ep, it doesn’t preclude other studios laying claim to the same ep. The numbers from Toei and AKOM imply some overlap. I have come to rely on depictions of Megatron for identifying Toei works, and Starscream for identifying AKOM works, but it's not foolproof. I worked out all the Toei claims, stupidly not considering that the community has already done most of that good work, but the AKOM stuff will require much more study, especially since, unlike with Toei, there are no numbers on how many eps they produced for s2. '''Has anyone tried to ask Nelson Shin?''' People have indeed contacted him about possibly releasing his magnum opus “Empress Chung” internationally. Unless AKOM themselves come clean about which 39 eps they are claiming, we may never have a complete resolution. I don’t expect they’ll cooperate after decades of (some undeserved) scorn and ridicule heaped on them by the fandom, but maybe worth a shot?

'''More new evidence to consider. IF it is TRUE that''' 1) Toei, according to their resume, produced 33 out of 39 episodes of “Jem Part 2” (understood to be Seasons 2 and 3), 2) “Jem” was animated, according to Megna, by Toei, Shin Won and Sam Young, 3) the work went to Shin Won and Sam Young because, according to TV Tropes, Marvel couldn’t afford to keep paying Toei for this show, 4) AKOM (which employed Sam Young) produced six of these 39 eps of “Jem”, according to Wikipedia, 5) Shin Won, according to TV Tropes, worked on specific eps of “Transformers” Season 2, '''THEN''' the question that could blow this case wide open becomes: '''What if Shin Won was indeed another AKOM subcontractor?''' I said before that Shin Won might not have done anything beyond in-betweening, but that was because I assumed they worked for Toei, but if it was AKOM, then that changes the game. The problem so far is they don’t seem to be working for AKOM in every show said to be theirs, and I’m also ''highly skeptical'' of some of the Shin Won assertions at TV Tropes, but I admit it’s an interesting clue.

===Recycling===
Recycled animation is virtually a dead giveaway for identifying studios. I started with the idea that any ep that reuses animation from Toei could be assumed to be claimed by Toei. I strongly suspected that even if an episode has nothing else from Toei except that Prime animation, then Toei claims it. “Attack of the Autobots” doesn’t seem to have anything else Toei-like, but I'm not sold in either direction yet. Same for "Starscream's Brigade", which is likely a cheap Sei Young product, but has the Prime sequence, and also a Lazerbeak eject sequence actually re-traced from the original shot in the Toei-produced "Changing Gears". I am marking stuff like this in my research. It’s not just Prime: “Golden Lagoon” features stock Toei animation of Omega Supreme; a Bruticus merge is repeated in “Aerial Assault”; certain cassette ejections are repeated in certain episodes; etc.

===Other Eps and Other Shows===
My research spreadsheet has descriptions of certain styles from Toei such as "Traitor" animation and "Immobilizer" animation, so I could try to compare between eps, but I'm watching other shows of the period as well. “G.I. Joe” and “Defenders of the Earth”, as mentioned, are very good study resources. For example, I realized that although “Aerial Assault” is unique for Transformers, this animation (possibly in-house) is in quite a few “Joe” eps (most notably the “Pyramid of Darkness” 5-parter), and I'm now seeing plenty of this work in "Jem" eps. That's another very helpful source. In the case of Sei Young, “Defenders” gives us much more than “Surprise Party” to use as a reference, because they produced so many eps on that show. I’m convinced “Only Human” is a Sei Young product, which would actually reconcile some of the available info. Here’s why: The Toei resume indicates 13 “Part 3” eps, but also indicates a production year of “1987”; that would seem incorrect, unless they either didn’t count “The Return of Optimus Prime” (which aired Feb. ‘87) or didn't work on two of the non-AKOM eps. However, if the two Sei Young eps don’t count as Toei-produced, the numbers check out. Toei’s resume claims only two eps of “Defenders”, so we know Sei Young doesn’t count under Toei in that case. "Starscream's Brigade" is said to be done by Sei Young, and I believe that as well, but on the other hand there is also the Toei Prime animation and evidence of a "retraced" Toei shot of Soundwave, which points to a Toei claim as well. If anyone has evidence of other shows, animes and animation confirmed to be produced by certain studios mentioned here (I already checked AKOM's other stuff), please call to my attention.

'''Case in point on this subject:''' There's been a lot of activity over the past month at TV Tropes (March/April 2023), with a couple members entering a whole lot of G1 animation info. Some of it seems quite legit, some of it harder to believe, and at least one seems to have come from my offhand comment about “G.I. Joe” at "Unknown Studios" (not cool). My spreadsheet now has all this info entered under a new column called “WHO THE HELL SAYS?”, and I don’t know how to begin reconciling because, ''LIKE ALWAYS, this new info has no attribution and no source citation.'' If I had hair on my head, I’d be pulling it right out.

===Ink & Paint===
Folks should keep in mind that “later” stages in animation, such as ink & paint, could be done by other studios. I feel as though certain episodes may have farmed that work out, so when folks, for example, say that “Starscream’s Ghost” is so much better qualitatively than their other s3 works, I don’t see that as much as I see slightly better work enhanced with better ink & paint. In the case of “Only Human”, ink & paint seems to make Sei Young’s animation better than their exact same output for “Surprise Party”. “Return of Optimus” Part 2, IMO, is ''quite terrible'', but with very impressive ink & paint work that I believe makes people think the animation is better than it actually is.

User:JoseBxR

2023-05-09T01:17:18Z

JoseBxR: /* Challenges */

User:JoseBxR

2023-05-09T00:03:22Z

JoseBxR: /* Overlap? */

User:JoseBxR

2023-05-08T23:58:28Z

JoseBxR: /* Challenges */

Talk:Unknown Generation 1 animation studios

2023-05-07T23:40:21Z

JoseBxR: /* Shin Won? */

I did wonder about [http://www.philippinebusiness.com.ph/archives/magazine/vol9-2002/9-3/industry_p2.htm this news item] which [[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] linked to on the [[Talk:Toei Animation|Talk:Toei]] page, which seems to suggest that it was Toei's Filipino branch. But that were only set up in 1986, unless they're wrong about the date... --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:48, 7 July 2009 (EDT)
::Yeah, I forgot about that little nugget. I added it to the article, though since the dates don't match up, we can't be certain, I suppose. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 18:37, 7 July 2009 (EDT)

The current reference link for Burbank is a 404. --[[User:Flicky1991|flicky]][[User talk:Flicky1991|1991]] 14:38, 10 February 2016 (EST)

== Maybe it was Burbank Animation? ==

Maybe this studio was Burbank Animation? The studio was a Philippine division of Burbank Films Australia, based out of Makati, and multiple people who worked there mentioned several Marvel shows on their resume, including My Little Pony, Jem and Defenders of the Earth.--[[Special:Contributions/71.142.249.86|71.142.249.86]] 01:13, 4 November 2009 (EST)
:Indeed! And it was set up in 1983, so it'd fit the time period. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 02:04, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::[http://www.burbankanimation.com/ Burbank's official website] doesn't list any of their farmed-out work for other studios, unfortunately. IMDB doesn't even list their work prior to 1989. Then again, that site just seems to be focused on their Australian division with no mention of their Filipino joint. [http://asianjournal.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/filipinos-on-top-of-hollywood-animation/ This article] says the Filipino studio was founded in 1983, but I can't find anything listing the shows they've worked on. Any way we can get a link to interviews with some of those Burbank employees who said they worked on Marvel/Sunbow productions? --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 08:55, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::: I found a "Boy Sibulo Aureliano" who lists Transformers in his resume, and he wa an animator for Burbank Animations from '83 to '88. I've sent him an email. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 14:08, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::::Awesome. I know only, like, 4 people are going to end up caring, but if we manage to solve this mystery I think it'll be really, really cool. After that, we'll just have to find a way to figure out what 7 episodes from season 2 they animated. That might actually be even ''harder'' to figure out. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 14:10, 4 November 2009 (EST)
:::::Stuff like this is why the wiki exists. First we get more information on the horribly awesome (or awesomely horrible) Headmasters dub, and now the possibility of this. Fall's shaping up to be grand here. --[[User:Bluestreak7|Bluestreak7]] 14:18, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::::::Stuff like this is only going to help the wiki. (And hurt the server.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:29, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::If we can get some more names from people working for Burbank's Filipino division during hte 80s, we might be able to find their online resumes and hit paydirt. I've found [http://www.cristofani.com/resume.html a couple] [http://www.linkedin.com/in/jocelynsy so far], though none of the ones I've found list Transformers under the shows they worked on. We might be able to get lucky, though. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 14:34, 4 November 2009 (EST)
:::Keep trying. Figuring this out = this site gets a little more famous = this site gets a little more hits = this site climbs up in search engine rankings = the Squid caching system dies. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:37, 4 November 2009 (EST)
:I think Burbank is probably the most likely choice. I've been rooting around on Google and found [http://dirp3.pids.gov.ph/ris/taps/tapspp0102.pdf this PDF document] which says that the first animation company to open in the Philippines was Burbank in 83, followed by a company called Optifex and then Fil-Cartoon over the next couple of years. From various CVs and other sites I've found, Optifex was exclusively doing out-sourced work for Hanna-Barbera until 88, when Hanna-Barbera opened Fil-Cartoon as a wholly owned subsidiary and Optifex was left doing domestic animation before rebranding. So that only really leaves Burbank, who multiple people list as having worked on Jem, MLP and DotE on their CVs. Of course the other possibility is that Paul Davids was mistaken in saying that any of Transformers was sent to the Philippines and confused it with these other shows out-sourcing there. [[User:Danja|Danja]] 06:56, 14 July 2011 (EDT)
Ok, '''definitely not Burbank'''. I sent a Facebook message to Jess Espanola, currently an assistant director on the Simpsons and formerly an animator at Burbank at the time the episodes were animated and he actually replying, saying "We didn't do any Transformer shows at Burbank. Maybe Toei Animation studio did it because Toei had a subsidiary studio ijn the Philippines". [[User:Danja|Danja]] 04:54, 15 September 2011 (EDT)
:Quite out of the blue I got another Facebook message from Jess Espanola. He was in the Philippines last month and while seeing friends at Toei's Philippines branch asked about Transformers production (which is pretty awesome of him). The manager, Nestor Palabrica, confirmed that Toei Philippines did Transformers animation in '86 (so season three). Is this the first confirmation of Toei's Philippines branch working on G1? It might explain Davids' comments/memories. [[User:Danja|Danja]] 08:42, 20 June 2012 (EDT)
::Hey, uh, should this Toei stuff not be on the page? It seems to be the biggest lead we have... --[[User:Flicky1991|flicky]][[User talk:Flicky1991|1991]] 14:21, 30 June 2013 (EDT)
:::I think this has to be another mistaken recollection. The website says it was established in ''November'' 1986 - ''well'' after all of season 3 would have been produced. Literally the only thing it could refer to would be "The Return of Optimus Prime," which would mean its work is indistinguishable from Toei proper. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 19:08, 10 February 2016 (EST)
::::The original article that credited Toei's Philippine branch with working on Transformers also mentioned G.I. Joe (presumably only the Marvel/Sunbow version), the final episodes of which were broadcast in November 1986, which really messes things up! I checked the credits to the Joe movie, the only production released after this date, and there're no names or credits with an obvious Philippine connection, but there are a boatload of Japanese staff names credited under Toei. Therefore my suspicion is that the founding date of the studio genuinely might be off, and it's possible that they could actually have done some Transformers episodes prior to "The Return of Optimus Prime".

::::Being a Toei branch, I would expect them to have copies of the correct character models. Plus, Toei's old website indicated they were responsible for the animation for all 95 episodes of the original Joe series. Therefore, if the Philippine branch actually animated any of those Joe episodes, as is suggested in that article, Toei still counted it as their work. The same would have to apply to Transformers. I don't necessarily think any of the thirteen season 3 episodes most closely identified with Toei were done in the Philippines, as they generally have a higher standard of animation than many of Toei's season 2 episodes. An example of a very likely candidate for a prior episode that might have been animated by them would be "Starscream's Ghost".

::::Another possibility to muddy the waters further is that the "Transformers" credited to Toei's Philippine branch could actually have been episodes some of the later three Japanese-exclusive series. That article mentioned G.I. Joe, but also undisputed anime series Dragon Ball Z and Sailor Moon. There's a fair number of artistic variations to be found in the G1 anime episodes, particularly in Masterforce, where there are a few episodes that aren't *quite* up to scratch when it comes to character renditions.

::::Whoever the mysterious third studio was, I don't think it was Toei's Philippine branch. - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 20:06, 12 February 2016 (EST)

== [[Hasbro Q&A]] ==

Anyone tried the [[Hasbro Q&A]] yet? Maybe that ''might'' help. If no-one has, can somebody do that in the next Q&A? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 10:44, 11 June 2010 (EDT)
:No one has yet. Would Hasbro even have that information? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:59, 11 June 2010 (EDT)
:Maybe they don't.But it would be helpful if they can tell us pretty much ''anything'' whatsoever. That's better than what we have now. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 01:51, 12 June 2010 (EDT)

==Identification criteria?==

I just noticed that some while back, a user identified which episodes from season 2 were done by the Filipino studio. For the record, what visual criteria was used to identify those episodes, so I can make a note of it in the article? --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 12:10, 11 July 2013 (EDT)

==Is there any proof at all about Philippine animation?==
We're basing all of this on one writer's (who wasn't even involved in the animation production of the show) vague 30 year old recollection? I think it's very presumptuous to attribute those episodes to this likely non-existent studio. Japanese wikipedia lists Japanese studio Anime R ([[wikipedia:ja:アニメアール|アニメアール]]) as working on the show and also Korean studio [[Dai Won Animation Co.|Daewon Animation]] ([[wikipedia:ja:テウォンメディア|大元動画]]); it's more likely either of these studios did those episodes as they both worked on American cartoons during the '80s.{{unsigned|Evan1975}}

== I might have cracked it ==

If you didn't catch my edit to Inferno's article earlier today, I observed that his different head design (with a more rounded helmet, softer features, and differently-colored head fins) occurred in both "[[Auto Berserk]]" and "[[Kremzeek!]]", two episodes we'd previously suspected of being done by this mystery studio. Following this line of thought, I've done more studying, I think I might actually have spotted some visual clues that identify this studio's episodes. First off, "[[Make Tracks]]" also features Inferno's alternate head design. Further, all these episodes have a common trait - they soften the faces of new 1985 characters, by changing lines that are supposed to run from the points of their eyes down to their chins into more curved "cheekbone-ish" contours, making their faces look more like they're "one piece", instead of the collection of angled planes Toei normally do. "[[Triple Takeover]]" is another that's I've spotted that does this. Check out these comparisons of Red from "Auto-Berserk" and Astrotrain from "Triple Takeover" next to their angular, Toei faces from "The God Gambit":

[[File:Cheekbonescomparison.jpg|300px]]

I literally never noticed Astrotrain's grey helmet in this episode before, and I thought it could be another indicator to look for, but can't find any other instance of it. Adding in "[[A Prime Problem]]", which conventional wisdom has always held is animated by the same team as "[[Auto Berserk]]", that's five of the eight episodes. I've got more examining to do, but I really think I might be onto something with this - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 16:49, 12 January 2016 (EST)

:I think there were only 7 non-Toei, non-AKOM episodes from season 2, so you're even closer than you think. The onion in the ointment though is whether or not more than 7 episodes have traces of those clues. It could mean that Toei and the unknown studio did sections of the same episode (not unheard of) but that only makes things muddier. Keep us updated! --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 17:08, 12 January 2016 (EST)
::Just curious, but what's the criteria for picking "Prime Problem" out as a non-Toei episode? I recall The Guy We Had to Wipe From History had selected it, too. I don't recall it looking particularly unToei-like and the overall lack of season 2 characters to give the "cheekbone test" to makes it even harder. It also has little moments of nice animation, if I recall correctly, and the cited episodes like "Triple Takeover" and "Kremzeek" were all much more listless or just plain fugly. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 17:16, 12 January 2016 (EST)
:::It goes back to Zobovor. Both it and "Auto Berserk" have moments of pretty incomparable fluidity, and a general softness of line and warmth of colour about them. They both have scenes where a soft white "airbrush" effect is used to create a metallic effect that I don't know I've seen anywhere else in the show. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 17:21, 12 January 2016 (EST)
::::Gotcha. Now, I hate to even suggest this but... There's no guarantee that the 7 uncreditted episodes were ALL done by the same studio. There's a chance that multiple studios could have done them, hence why some seem to look better than others. OR, they could have ALL been done by the same studio like we've assumed, but different directors resulted in different looks and feels (like those season 1 episodes such as "Roll For It" that look super duper anime, while others don't look it at all). Working blind like this kinda sucks. I'm kind of wondering if we should change this article to something like "Unknown Generation 1 animation studio" rather than assume they were all done by the Filipino place (which may not have even been in the Philippines based on recent contention). --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 17:26, 12 January 2016 (EST)
:::::Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, to be honest. Fiddling around with this article to explain the sheer ambiguity of the whole thing would be a good move. If nothing else, I feel very confident about Inferno's alternate head being the biggest, most easily-spotted visual identifier. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]])
::::::OH-HO-HO!! I think I found another! In "Make Tracks," Tracks is coloured a bit differently to normal - in robot mode, he has black windows instead of clear ones, and his wheels are the same grey as his arms and legs, instead of the darker shade they normally are. Now, "Make Tracks" has the alternate Inferno head design, so I thought this alternate color model could be another hallmark to look out for, and after some searching, it appears in only one other episode - "The Secret of Omega Supreme", another famously shoddy one that was suspected of being non-Toei! That's six.... one more to suss out!! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 15:56, 22 January 2016 (EST)
:::::::It's always been a difficult exercise to try and identify the non-Toei, non-AKOM episodes of season 2, particularly since Toei clearly had multiple teams of animators working on the series. We know Toei did all of season 1 for instance, but there's a wild variation of animation styles and quality to be seen in those 16 episodes. Thus, the difference between a poorly animated Toei episode and one of the Filipino-animated episodes is not necessarily that distinct (such as the really shoddy Toei animation in "Divide and Conquer" or "The Ultimate Doom Part 1").
:::::::Two episodes not mentioned that I used to be fairly sure were animated by the Filipino studio are "[[War Dawn (episode)|War Dawn]]" and "[[Starscream's Brigade]]"; the style in both of them is just a little too off at times, particularly in the latter episode, even accounting for Toei's quality range. I agree that another suspect episode was "[[The Secret of Omega Supreme (episode)|The Secret of Omega Supreme]]", and as an added bonus, Astrotrain has his grey helmet in that episode too. His helmet is purple in "Starscream's Brigade", but they might have had access to the correct colour model by then.
:::::::That takes us to eight episodes, so the one I'd be tempted to knock off the list would be "A Prime Problem"; it's not up to standard efforts clearly from Toei, but other than the "airbrush" effect I wouldn't be quite as quick to identify it as one of the Filipino episodes, but instead a sub-par Toei effort.
:::::::From a real-world perspective, it probably makes sense that there would be a smattering of episodes from this studio produced roughly mid-to-late range in season 2, when Toei would also have been assigning animators to the Movie. - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 17:07, 22 January 2016 (EST)
::::::::I, too, considered "Starscream's Brigade," because it has that very soft, warm look, but I've discounted it because Grapple and Astrotrain (and following today's discovery, yep, Tracks) have the correct color models in it. We know from Akom's series-long goofs, it just wasn't likely that updated versions of these things got sent around. I DID miss that Astrotrain has the alternate helmet in "Secret," though!
::::::::Although it's certainly the case with "Secret" or "Kremzeek," I don't really think of "sub-par" as being a way of defining the non-Akom/Toei episodes. "A Prime Problem" and "Auto Berserk" have some really beautiful moments of fluid, high-frame rate stuff in them (the auto-scout weaving between the crytals, the missile shooting down the corridor into the bunker) that I don't know I can think of a really comparable example of from a Toei episodes. I spotted something similar in "Make Tracks" today, when Sideswipe tackles Ravage, that ties them together for me. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 17:20, 22 January 2016 (EST)
:::::::::For "sub-par", I'd refer to the actual character renderings rather than the fluidity of the animation itself, as the AKOM episodes are well-known for having some exceptionally fluid animated sequences. I still strongly suspect "Starscream's Brigade" was one of their episodes and that they simply had the colour models all updated by then. Personally, I wouldn't say it's necessarily a given that just because AKOM never received the correct colour models that the Filipino studio also never did, especially if they were a Toei subcontractor. Anyway, that's my take on it! - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 18:41, 22 January 2016 (EST)
:::::::::::I can't deny, I keep coming back to "Brigade," because it does have that soft-lined quality. But I'd still say "Prime Problem" or "Auto Berserk" have better character renderings than a low-end Toei episode! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 18:49, 22 January 2016 (EST)
I've been going through the suspect episodes again, and another colour-identifier to watch out for is Thrust; his shoulders and air intakes in robot mode are consistently red in every single shot he appears in both "Auto Berserk" and "Triple Takeover".

There's also a semi-recurrent error with Starscream's eyes occasionally being blue in "Auto Berserk", "Triple Takeover", and "Starscream's Brigade", but it's not quite as compelling an argument.

It's from 2012, but Zob [https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.toys.transformers/ro0LGSJfMD4/5M6uQVXqtqIJ| posted a list] on ATT (where else?) of his take on the non-Toei, non-AKOM episodes of season 2. Zob's list includes both "A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court" and "Hoist Goes Hollywood", which *really* look like Toei efforts.

Between us all, there's a consensus that "Make Tracks", "The Secret of Omega Supreme", "Kremzeek!" and "Triple Takeover" are almost certainly all non-Toei, non-AKOM episodes, and although Zob didn't include it in his list, observations on the episode make it pretty clear that "Auto Berserk" should also be included for a total 5 episodes identified.

Therefore, between all the lists, that would leave the remaining two episodes to probably be among "A Prime Problem", "War Dawn", or "Starscream's Brigade". Not much new here, but thought it worth noting! - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 17:56, 7 February 2016 (EST)
:OOh, good spot with Thrust's shoulders! I wonder what Zob was seeing "Hoist Goes Hollywood"? I can ''sort'' of see "Decepticon Raider" and "Brigade" we've talked about, but not that one. I think I'm going to put the five we've agreed upon up on the article, though. And also, move the article to a better name. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 14:22, 9 February 2016 (EST)
::Excellent work so far, as always! In the meantime, I've gone through the suspect episodes again, and I now agree with you on "A Prime Problem", and think the remaining episode is very probably "War Dawn". One of the smoking guns is the use (or lack thereof) of Toei-originated stock animation. That is, an episode featuring *two* Optimus Primes somehow doesn't use his stock transformation sequence at any point?

::Prime's stock transformation sequence does appear in "Starscream's Brigade", and they also tinker with it slightly as he gets in a whole line before actually transforming, so they clearly had access to the original cels. Every other episode that ever used the sequence was clearly a Toei-animated episode, so I think "Brigade" may just be one of their episodes assigned to a lesser team, like "Divide and Conquer" (which we know was a Toei episode).

::And of the episodes that didn't use Prime's transformation animation, this leaves "War Dawn" as the only other one that isn't in the same style as Toei's main animation teams. The aforementioned lack of season 2 characters makes this one really tough to 100% identify, but it's notable that the top of Slingshot's head is consistently white in every single shot, and we've seen before that the unknown studio were nothing if not consistent with their non-standard colours for newer characters. I know that particular error also cropped up in Toei episodes (most particularly "Aerial Assault"), but never for the entire episode, let alone one actually focussing on the Aerialbots. Yes, there's some Toei-looking shots in the episode, but these could have been retakes picked up by them later. - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 19:53, 9 February 2016 (EST)
:::Oh NICE, I would NOT have thought to look for Prime's stock footage! Actually, let's crunch the numbers on that out in the open here on the talk page for everyone playing along at home.
:::Okay, so, thanks to the Cybertron Chronicle's records of it, we know that the only season 2 episodes that DON'T have the stock footage in them are (taking its use in any two-parters as evidence that both parts were done by the same studio): "City of Steel," "The Autobot Run," "A Prime Problem," "The Core," "The Master Builders," "Auto Berserk," "Microbots," "Decepticon Raider," "Golden Lagoon," "God Gambit," "Make Tracks," "Quest for Survival," "Secret of Omega Supreme," "Kremzeek," "Sea Change," "Triple Takeover," "Prime Target," "Auto Bop," "Girl Who Loved Powerglide," "Hoist Goes Hollywood," "Aerial Assault," "War Dawn," "Trans Europe Express," "Cosmic Rust," and "BOT."
:::From that list, we can remove "City of Steel," "The Autobot Run," "The Core," "Auto Berserk," "Make Tracks," "Secret of Omega Supreme," "Kremzeek," and "Triple Takeover" as being the work of AKOM or ones we have definitely identified as "unknown studio" episodes based on the presence of outdated character models.
:::So then, going through the remaining episodes with that list of outdated character models as reference, we can eliminate the following episodes based on the fact the characters appear ''correctly'' in them: "The Master Builders" (Grapple, Inferno, and Tracks), "Microbots" (Smokescreen), "Golden Lagoon" (Thrust), "God Gambit" (Astrotrain), "Quest for Suvival" (Tracks, Smokescreen, and Grapple), "Sea Change" (Astrotrain), "Prime Target" (Astrotrain, Inferno, Grapple, and Tracks), "Auto Bop" (Tracks), "Girl Who Loved Powerglide" (Thrust), "Hoist Goes Hollywood" (Tracks, Astrotrain, and Thrust), "Trans Europe Express" (Tracks and Smokescreen), and "Cosmic Rust" (Astrotrain, Tracks, Smokescreen, and Inferno).
:::That leaves our only ''possible'' contenders as "A Prime Problem," "Decepticon Raider," "Aerial Assault," "War Dawn," and "BOT." "A Prime Problem" is visually quite distinct from all of these and I think we all agree it must be one of them. "BOT can be ruled out, as it features Ironhide using the generic Autobot laser pistol design, which only appears in Toei episodes. "Aerial Assault" is definitely ''way'' too good to be anything but a Toei episode, so that only leaves "Raider" and "War Dawn," but focusing on Slingshot's white skullcap, I checked out all his season 3 appearances, and he appears with it in ''every'' one of them animated by AKOM, which ''screams'' "outdated character model." Add that consistent use to the generally slipshod "War Dawn" (which also lacks the generic laser pistol, arming Ironhide and Ratchet with grey versions of Optimus's gun instead) and yes, I do believe we have our seven episodes!
:::Jon, what are you thoughts on my supposition that "Starscream's Ghost" and "Only Human" are also this studio's work? - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 06:57, 10 February 2016 (EST)
::::Aside from the general competence of animation being higher than an average AKOM episode, I've always had suspicions about both episodes, and before Toei's website put the numbers up I seriously thought "Only Human" could have been one of theirs. I remember Rik Bakke also saying he had a production schedule that claimed Toei animated "Starscream's Ghost", casting more suspicion on that episode, although we now know neither episode is from Toei, as the numbers literally don't add up.

::::Based on further observations, "Starscream's Ghost" and "Only Human" do look to be from the same animators as each other. I concentrated on Rodimus as he's one of the few characters prominently seen in both episodes. His spoiler is invariably depicted as being mostly horizontal rather than angled/curved (when seen from the front) in AKOM or Toei episodes. The tyres on his upper arms also seem to be coloured red quite often (like in the Toei episodes), but with the hub cap still rendered white (like the AKOM episodes). Most tellingly, his rifle is coloured the same way between both episodes, whereas otherwise it's either black (Toei) or red (AKOM).

::::One quirk both episodes share with clear AKOM episodes is the use of outdated colour schemes, as with Galvatron's pink (rather than purple "underpants". They also share with AKOM the colouring of the inside of the season 3 characters' mouths. Plus, the centre of the square just below Perceptor's chest is coloured red in AKOM episodes, as well as in "Starscream's Ghost" (it's only one shot, but it's there) and "Only Human". This is particularly notable, as in "The Secret of Omega Supreme", he has his correct colour scheme seen in Toei productions, with the square being coloured completely white. Starscream's colourful back, with the orange back cowling and blue engines, isn't seen in any other episode.

::::Another observation from the same episode is that Galvatron transforms twice, and each time this occurs, his particle cannon correctly detaches itself from his arm and joins back with him once he's transformed. AKOM really liked to "cheat" this, with the cannon being either being "swallowed up" in his transformation or simply falling out of shot, never seen to be reattaching itself. Only rarely was this depicted correctly outside of a Toei episode (although amazingly, one example can be seen in "Carnage in C-Minor").

::::Given the prominent and consistent use of outdated character designs and generally much higher-quality animation, I think it makes for a compelling argument that these two were not in fact animated by AKOM. If not for their use of blatantly outdated models, the same sort of confusion that we've seen with the seven season 2 episodes might have also applied to these two when comparing to Toei's efforts. Whether it was actually the same studio as the unknown one that worked on season 2 may still be up for debate however (why did they suddenly start using AKOM's colours for Perceptor?). But one of the biggest supporting factors, aside from animation quality, is probably their propensity for adding lips to the characters, like in their last pre-Movie episode, "War Dawn".

::::Between the shared colour schemes with AKOM, and AKOM's own episode-long use of Cyclonus's alternate character model in "The Rebirth Part 2", it's easy to see why these two episodes were lumped in with AKOM's work for years.

::::And on that note, it makes it all the more compelling an argument that maybe "Carnage in C-Minor" might not have been animated by AKOM after all either. AKOM tended to be consistent with their incorrect colour models, so it doesn't entirely make sense that for this one episode they suddenly started correctly colouring the inside of all the season 3 characters' mouths grey in every shot. AKOM look to have only stopped colouring the characters' mouths in the following season's "The Rebirth".

::::From a numbers point-of-view, it might make some sense that for season 3, Toei and AKOM both got 13 episode (i.e. a season's worth) orders, with the remaining episodes divided up into another three unknown studios. AKOM's work was bad, but there was a limit to how bad it got. "Carnage in C-Minor" is way underneath even AKOM's worst work.

::::Oh, and as a final observation I noticed two Thrusts show up with his alternate colour scheme in "Thief in the Night", if that's worth noting! - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 20:02, 12 February 2016 (EST)
:::::I find the thing I look for in particular on Rodimus is the extra trapezoid on his crotch, which isn't part of his "early" animation model, and so comes and goes from AKOM episodes depending what a particular scene is animated using. They ''always'' use the early ''colors'', though, like Galvatron (whose early model isn't very different and really quite tricky to spot), so it's never colored in, and that's made me miss it more than once when it's there. The curved tips to his shoudlers are probably a better "tell." His gun is that odd color scheme in some parts of FFoD too, as I recall.
:::::(Actually, speaking of Galvatron's early model, I ''think'' he might spend ''all'' of "Starscream's Ghost" in it.)
:::::The Perceptor thing might not be ''that'' unusual - there's at least one scene in "Triple Takeover" where Astrotrain has his purple helmet, and another in "Secret of Omega" too. If this is only one scene in "Starscream's Ghost," I ''feeeeel'' like it's maybe negligible for our purposes.
:::::It's sounding like it might be a good idea to move this page to "Unknown Generation 1 animation studio'''s'''", so we can detail all of this on it. That "thirteen episode" theory makes an ''aaaaawful'' lot of sense...
:::::I also spotted the red Thrusts after you pointed them out in the other episodes, and I went looking to see if AKOM did them too! AKOM ''also'' used grey-helmet Astrotrain consistently, I discovered! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 20:40, 12 February 2016 (EST)
===A sudden twist!===
But wait! Could it be! I've just discovered that ''Hoist'' also has an early color model! In Toei episodes, the hinge in the centre of his chest is solid orange, and his tyres are white on the circular side, and black on the edge. On his outdate model, only the outermost points of his chest hinge are orange, with the central piece being green (which is actually-toy accurate), and his tyres are completely white (which is not). Like the others, this model appears in the original advert for the toy... in "Auto Berserk"... in "Kremzeek!"... '''aaaand'''... in "Decepticon Raider"!!!! Coooooould just be we've made the wrong call on "War Dawn" - the only potential monkey wrench is that for the three shots of "Kremzeek!" he appears in, Hoist is in his outdated model for two of them, but his finalized model for one, but then, that happens with Astrotrain in other episodes too. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 17:17, 16 February 2016 (EST)
:I am consistently impressed and intimidated by your thoroughness to this endeavor. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 17:21, 16 February 2016 (EST)
::As am I. Say, it sounds like most of the 2nd year Autobot Cars have alternate models...have you tried checking [[Skids (G1)|Skids]]'s appearance in [[Triple Takeover]] for differences with his other appearance in [[Quest for Survival]]? Perhaps he had different models as well, aseeing as how he's grouped with them (sort of). Just a thought. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep|talk]]) 18:07, 16 February 2016 (EST)
:::I haven't mentioned it as we're already certain about "Triple Takeover," but he does, actually! His Toei color model is a bit piecemeal anyway, as it colors parts that ought to be the same shade of blue in a mixture of dark and pale blues. In "TT," his robot mode appearances are all tiny figures in the distance, but his windows are light instead of dark, and the top of his chest is consistently the lighter blue, compared to the darker blue it was in "Quest."
:::Red Alert also has an alternate model, but it's barely worth noting, as "Auto Berserk" is on the only "unknown studio" episode he appears in, and the only difference is that they colour him bright white instead of off-white. But that ''does'' mean that all the '85 cars have early models; I suspect these were drawn up for the commercial that starred all of them (except Skids), and were later refined. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 19:00, 16 February 2016 (EST)
::::Yes, another good catch on Hoist! The 1985 Autobot Cars commercial that his, and the other alternate models appear in, is definitely the key. I haven't seen the clearer copy that's on Youtube before now, but taking a closer look, the clear airbrushed look on Optimus Prime does look atypical for Toei's work. I wonder if the other studio animated this ad?
::::There are elements of "Raider" that do still look like Toei work, such as the faces of the human cast in multiple shots. Could this be circumstantial evidence that the other studio may have been a Japanese one? Plus the inclusion of an in-joke referencing Dungeons & Dragons (26 of its 27 episodes animated by Toei) is another element that originally threw the scent off. "Hank" may have been included in the original storyboards by a Marvel staffer, or perhaps by the same studio who did the one non-Toei D&D episode (I don't know which one it is, but it's a first season episode according to the old Toei website).
::::If Hoist's other model literally appears in no other episode that we've identified as being a Toei episode, then "Raider" *has* to be included in the list of non-Toei ones. "War Dawn" is the obvious suspect to remove, but Slingshot's persistently white skullcap is still a noteworthy anomaly. If we're agreed it's a Toei episode, then it may very well have been done by the same low-rent team that did "Starscream's Brigade".
::::With all the animation and production memorabilia collectors out there, it would be nice if *someone* had documentation that proved *something* - most crucially, the names of the other studios! - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 19:04, 17 February 2016 (EST)
:::::My only qualm with the Unknown Studio being Japanese in origin is all the bad Japanese text seen in "Kremzeek!" There's the possibility that the Unknown Studio farmed those backgrounds out to one of the Korean sub studios like Dai Won that did in-betweening and photography work, but that's getting so nitty-gritty we'd never be able to figure it out. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 10:15, 18 February 2016 (EST)
:::::Oh YEAH, look at that! I didn't look closely at Prime before but yeah, there's the airbrushing from "Auto Berserk" and "A Prime Problem!" You know, it makes an extra little touch of sense that "A Prime Problem" would be the first episode to be done by this studio, if they did this commercial, being that it's the first one to feature any new 1985 product - in the script from the Ron Friedman auction, there are even deleted scenes that show it was supposed to introduce Inferno and Ramjet as well.
:::::Y'know, I took a quick look, and Slingshot's even got his white skullcap in "Call of the Primitives." Added to the times it popped up in Toei episodes, if this was an early model (and it probably was since AKOM used it all the time), it seems like it must have made it pretty late in there. Like maybe his full-body model had the white head and his close-up head turnaround had the orange - two models that would have co-existed at Toei, and so the studio would have had them both at the same time and gone back and forth between them, but the head turnaround wouldn't likely have made it out to AKOM. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 12:05, 18 February 2016 (EST)

AND HERE'S ANOTHER!! Thinking about "Decepticon Raider" and Warpath, I remembered the inconsistency we have noted on his article about what his face did when he talked, and thought there could be something to check there. So, yes, for my sins, I have just checked... sigh... every single piece of season 2 Warpath dialogue outside of "Raider"... and they are ALL in Toei episodes, and ALL* of the episodes in which his face is shown (because he delivers a LOT of his dialogue in tank mode, and from off-screen), he has the glowing blue slats. It's only in "Raider" that his mouthplate jiggles (and taking a second look, it actually only does ''that'' in one or two scenes, not moving otherwise) which seems to me to be more evidence it's done by the Unknown Studio.

(*Mitigating circumstances for "Quest for Survival," in which Warpath does not have the slats, but the only line he speaks while his face is on-screen in the episode is the partial finishing-off of a sentence begun from off-screen, which I think is enough to mitigate them not doing the effect. His plate certainly doesn't jiggle either.) - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:48, 18 February 2016 (EST)

==That's some good work, Lou==

I didn't follow half of your sleuthing, but I believe it, so good job Chris and Jon. With the 7 episodes more or less pinpointed, do you want to update the Season 2 info boxes to state the unknown studio definitively and not just "Toei (maybe)"? --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 12:53, 18 February 2016 (EST)
::Hey, thanks, Chief! I feel pretty good about going ahead and doing that. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:48, 18 February 2016 (EST)

== Carnage in C-Minor ==

Feeling like I'm on a roll, I decided to go back to Jon's suggestion that "Carnage in C-Minor" might not have been an AKOM episode, but the work of another unknown studio, since it's ''so'' bad, and lacks AKOM's characteristic interior-mouth coloring. I don't know that I've found anything useful yet - Soundwave's still in the wrong color scheme, Devastator still uses his oudated color model, like normal AKOM episodes, but I thought Broadside might be one to look at, since his outdated model extends to his alternate forms, rather than just his robot mode. "Carnage" was his first robot mode appearance, but when AKOM animated him again in "Grimlock's New Brain," they used his finalized model, and if we've learned anything from this endeavour, it's that studios that weren't Toei didn't get updated materials. So here's what I found: in "The Killing Jar," Broadside appears only in jet mode, but it's the jet mode from his finalized model. In "Thief in the Night," he appears only in carrier mode; in his first scene, it's a conglomerate of both his early and finished models - the hull of his early model, but the communications tower of his finished model (they have different dishes) - but in his second, transporting the Autobots, it's all the old model. And in "Carnage," both his robot and jet are from the early model... but the carrier is from the ''finished'' model. So... no, I don't know what to make of that at all. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 05:42, 20 February 2016 (EST)

==Companies mentioned on animenewsnetwork.com==

Has anyone looked into the companies listed as having worked, uncredited, in the animation for the Transformers TV series according to animenewsnetwork.com ? According to them, Anime R, Ashi Productions, Kaname Production, Nakamura Production, and TMS Entertainment (Tokyo Movie Shinsha) all did so.
:Firstly, ANN isn't always an accurate source of information thanks to it being user-contributed like this wiki. So information isn't always accurate to a fault. Second, most of those companies, save Ashi, are already on the main page listed as support studios. While we can't rule out anything based on what little information we actually have on the studios to begin with, I'd highly doubt they'd be hired by anyone else but Toei to work on the series. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 20:04, 10 December 2018 (EST)

== Ashi Productions ==

The page for "[[Call of the Primitives]]" says based on the staff and timing, the episode was likely animated by this company, [[Ashi Productions]]? They don't seem to be based in the Philippines, but as a Toei subcontractor would they be a contender for this studio? - [[User:TFfan1|TFfan1]], March 29 2020, 11:09 PST
:The animation style of "Call of the Primitives" is completely different from any of the episodes we've attributed to this studio, so unlikely. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 14:14, 29 March 2020 (EDT)

== Sei Young Animation Co ==

A possibility worth exploring is Korean company Sei Young Animation Co. Marvel used them for 63 episodes of Defenders Of The Earth in 1985 and 1986. They had a very Toei-esque style, having collaborated with them at various points since 1978. It would make sense if the purpose of sending 10 episodes to other studios in season 2, apart from the immediate benefit of taking pressure off Toei, was a test run before commissioning these studios full-time on other shows (AKOM would gradually become Marvel's primary animator). [[User:Greebtron|Greebtron]] ([[User talk:Greebtron|talk]]) 20:18, 21 April 2020 (EDT)
: I think you might be on to something here, at least with a few of the uglier looking episodes like "Kremzeek". It reminds me a bit of the feel and quality seen in some Toei-associated episodes of the time like "Child's Play" or "The Gambler". Heck, it actually wouldn't surprise me if Sei Young actually did those episodes too (under contract of Toei and not Marvel directly, of course). But that's just my thoughts on the matter, anyway. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 19:43, 20 July 2020 (EDT)

== (Season 3) Toei's 13th episode? ==

So I was skimming through the Season 3 episode articles because this was bothering me, but since "Surprise Party" was recently found out to be a Sei Young episode, that leaves Toei with only twelve confirmed Season 3 episodes, even though their resume says they did thirteen.

So my theories are:

1. Either "Surprise Party" was a Toei episode that Sei Young worked on (which would be expected giving their working relationship) and Sei Young simply sent Marvel the finished episode in Toei's place (I don't know the ins-and-outs of outsourcing animation but I think it's a possibility), leaving "Call of the Primitives" the weird outlier.

OR

2. "Surprise Party" was directly assigned to Sei Young, and "Call of the Primitives" was assigned to Toei, and Toei decided to subcontract the work to another studio (possibly Ashi Productions, going by the trivia note on the episode page). We know AKOM did the same thing with "Starscream's Ghost" and "Only Human", so it's not without precedent.

I could just be rambling nonsense, and the edit to the "Surprise" article was very recent, but I felt this needed to be brought up. --[[User:TheAmazingPoncho|TheAmazingPoncho]] ([[User talk:TheAmazingPoncho|talk]]) 21:33, 28 July 2020 (EDT)

== A possibility, perhaps? ==

So seeing how we finally found out that "Call' was a Toei episode farmed to another company ([[Studio Look]]), it got me wondering about Ashi Pro's involvement in the series regarding their work on the show and I found [https://w.atwiki.jp/sakuga/?cmd=word&word=%E3%83%88%E3%83%A9%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B9%E3%83%95%E3%82%A9%E3%83%BC%E3%83%9E%E3%83%BC&type=&pageid=309 this]. It mentions both Habara's involvement on "Heavy Metal War" and Ashi's overall work on the show to his best recollection. The other episodes featured are labeled as "3, 8, 13, 22 and 32". Problem number 1 is that it's difficult as to what order the list is referring to as the English and Japanese broadcast airings are different to both.

Going by the English order, the episodes consist of "More Than Meets the Eye, Part 3", "S.O.S. Dinobots", "The Ultimate Doom, Part 3", "The Imobilizer" and "The Master Builders". Whereas in Japanese, while the first episode is identical, the other ones in that order consists of "War of the Dinobots", "Traitor", "A Prime Problem" and "The God Gambit". Problem no. 2 with that is with the Japanese order, which just straight on Toei or Korean-contracted-under-Toei titles (barring "Prime Problem", which we know is the work of the still-unidentified mystery studio), so I assume the page meant the original English order, which by extension marks "Roll For It" as a possible Ashi episode due to the similarities between it and "S.O.S." But again, that order is also pretty suspect as neither "Imobilizer" or "Master Builders" look anything like an Ashi-contracted episode and more like one of the Toei-supervised Korean episodes of Season 2.

Still, thought this was interesting all things considered. Any thoughts? [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 17:14, 12 September 2020 (EDT)
:What if you exclude the More Than Meets the Eye miniseries from the enumeration? It was produced separately, after all. What are episodes 3, 8, 13, 22, and 32 then? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 19:00, 12 September 2020 (EDT)
:And could it only be referring to Season 2? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 19:03, 12 September 2020 (EDT)
::Now that's the million dollar question I want to know the answer to, as the page I linked to considers it and the rest of Season 1 as one entity and not two separately produced batches. Not to mention this very wiki doesn't seem to discern the difference either and lumps the pilot in with the rest of the series, so I'm mostly basing my speculations towards that. Also, I think the count is for both, Seasons 1 and 2 if we take that into consideration. Only thing to do now is either ask Habara for clarification or wait until production sheets for the first two seasons surface before making better judgement.[[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 11:43, 14 September 2020 (EDT)
:::Seasons 1 and 2 use the same format of production codes, but the pilot is separate. The pilot is codes 4023, 4024, and 4025. Season 1 proper runs from 700-01 to 700-13 and Season 2 runs from 700-16 to 700-64. You have to go to the individual episode pages to get these, though. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 11:49, 14 September 2020 (EDT)
::::3 = [[Divide and Conquer]], 8 = [[The Ultimate Doom, Part 1]], 13 = [[Heavy Metal War]], 22 = [[The Autobot Run]], and 32 = [[Auto Berserk]], based on production codes.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 10:56, 21 September 2020 (EDT)
:::::And that makes no sense we we already know The Autobot Run is very obviously AKOM, which again brings up the question of what the source I found is exactly meaning with its episode order. There's also the fact that the page seem to explicitly mention Heavy Metal War's order in both versions of the series (10 in Japanese, 16 in the original US). So I don't really know what to think.[[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 14:29, 26 September 2020 (EDT)

== Asking Dery ==

This might be opening a ''terrible'' idea (I've read his talk page), but do you think if anyone could get a hold of Floro Dery he could shed some light on this? He was a design supervisor and ''might'' have some info? I also have no idea if he's lived in the Philippines for all this time but if he was in the animation scene around then he might have a better idea of what studios were operating at the time that could've been the illusive studio. [[User:TransFormersfan1|TransFormersfan1]] ([[User talk:TransFormersfan1|talk]]) 13:18, 2 December 2020 (EST)

== Another Possibility ==

Been sitting on this for a while now, but a thought crossed my mind fairly recently. With the reveal that Sei Young was the one responsible (or at least credited for) Surprise Party, it got me to thinking- What if one or more of the episodes attributed to this unknown studio are actually Sei Young's work? Comparing their work on Surprise Party or even Season 2 episodes credited to Toei like Child's Play or The Master Builders to say, Kremzeek or Triple Takeover, they look pretty similar. Call me crazy, but I certainly feel I might have stumbled onto something. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 21:25, 23 January 2021 (EST)

== A Possible Suggestion ==

I know this is probably a longshot, but has anyone actually asked any of the show's animators on the Japanese side of things? Not many of the US-based crew seem willing to answer (presuming they even have the materials to begin with), but I feel like if anyone could get in touch with an animator from the Japan side of the coin. We could hopefully get a better idea as to who did what episode. The problem though, from what I see is two-fold. The first is that I wouldn't know which among us would even know enough Japanese to properly ask the question in the first place. The second is whether or not said animators would even remember working on the show to begin with (assuming they did in the first place). Especially since for most of them it'd be among their first credits, and animators who were active during the 1980s usually seem to ignore that period where Japan got most of America's animation outside of some exceptions. Either way though, I think it'd be worth an attempt if nothing more. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 01:16, 15 July 2022 (EDT)

==Shin Won?==

I tweeted to the Wiki account and [[User:Chris_McFeely|Chris McFeely]] about this last year and promptly forgot all about it, but it's a possible lead. The [https://web.archive.org/web/20211201064759/https://digilander.libero.it/dottor_vaffa/ Megna Co-Productions database] lists the following studios as having worked on Transformers: Toei, Sei Young, Dai Won, Shin Won, Sam Young and Akom. Most of those are accounted for here, except Shin Won, so I did some digging.

According to the [https://www.kmdb.or.kr/db/per/00003442 Korean Movie Database] they were known as "Educational Fairy Tale" (or just Gyoyuk, which I guess is Korean for educational fairy tale - I'm using Google Translate for most of this) until 1986, when they became Shin Won and then "Production Grimi" in the late 90s. They're now defunct, it seems. Their [https://web.archive.org/web/20030215231041fw_/http://www.grimi.co.kr/index02.html official website circa 2003] (thanks to the Wayback Machine) has them claiming credit for work on various anime, Transformers, GI Joe, Jem, Real Ghostbusters, Dennis and, crucially, Teddy Ruxpin. Checking back on Megna, the Shin Won is the ''only'' studio attributed to Teddy Ruxpin. The [https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/company.php?id=1361 Anime News Network] profile for them has them credited on different shows with everything from "colour co-ordination check" to in-betweening to finish animation to paint to just "animation". So while it's entirely possible their contribution to Transformers was out-source assistance work to Toei or Akom, like Dai Won and Sam Young, that variety of contributions and Teddy Ruxpin suggests they're capable of producing entire episodes independently and so could be the mystery studio.

There are potential issues with this of course. First is that Wikipedia credits Teddy Ruxpin to Atkinson Film-Arts (along with DiC), who I don't know enough about to know whether they animated in-house or out-sourced the main work uncredited. Megna doesn't mention Atkinson at all for Teddy Ruxpin. Second is that Megna doesn't cite its sources, although Shin Won's own website is presumably the source in this case. Would they have reason to lie? Seems unlikely, but can't be ruled out, I guess. I suppose the acid test would be watching some Teddy Ruxpin. [[User:Danja|Danja]] ([[User talk:Danja|talk]]) 07:02, 26 January 2023 (EST)

:It's possible, That database is weird when it comes to listing outsourcing studios. And given how little we know about the studios in question (acid testing is how I was able to deduce some of the efforts of Anime R, Nakamura Pro, and Studio Look for Toei's episodes since two of them --R and Look-- lack websites and the third --Nakamura Pro-- ''has'' a website, but lacks a proper resume thanks to all the work they've done), it's possible we might have Shin Won doing an episode or two on their own. And if so, I can see them handling "Krmezeek", "Triple Takeover" and "The Secret of Omega Supreme" at least, leaving "Make Tracks", "A Prime Problem" and "Auto-Berserk" the remaining outliers if that is the case.

:As far as Teddy Ruxpin is concerned, Atkinson handled most of the pre-production services. The animation, as per usual with DiC, went to Asian studios uncredited (no idea if this tied into union rules being exploited like with Marvel, or DiC just being dicks), so Shin Won being involved might be something to look into so we can try and acid wash some of their episodes. Again, it bites not having the proper documentation for these things.[[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 05:18, 4 February 2023 (EST)

UPDTATE (since I forgot this thought initially): Is it possible that Shin Won also worked on some of the uglier-looking Toei episodes as well? I'm looking over some of the more infamous ones like "Child's Play" and "Starscream's Brigade" (credited to both Nakamura Pro and Sei Young alongside Toei currently; though I have my doubts about the Korean studio's involvement going over it), and it certainly feels like "Kremzeek" and "Triple Takeover" both have similar faults as the other episodes I just mentioned. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 13:25, 14 February 2023 (EST)

:Speaking of acid tests, that's exactly what I did regarding "Teddy Ruxpin", so I'll mention that I had no help there. Good news is, the Megna database seems to be the most accurate resource to date, so I count this and the fact that most of our "research material" is readily available on youtube as the two most important breakthroughs. Bad news, at least as far as "Teddy" is concerned, is that Megna may only be listing Korean OEM in this case, so stuff has to be missing. "Teddy" makes no sense in that some episodes are clearly done in Japan and some in Korea, but they list a "Kazumi Fukushima" as "animation director" or "animation consultant", but also credit "key animation" to a bunch of people with ''Western'' and ''European'' names! What?!? I was much more successful after watching "Jem", because there are only 11 episodes not produced by Toei, they look quite a bit different from the rest, but also have, to my eyes, no similarity whatsoever to anything on "Transformers". I feel comfortable saying that Shin Won could not have done anything above the level of in-between work. [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 19:40, 7 May 2023 (EDT)

==I'm on a mission to identify all AKOM eps and it's quite a chore (update below)==

Longtime G1 fan, 1st time caller here. I can't say much now, because I have zero free time, but I'm just starting a couple of huge projects relating to a library of G1 episodes I'm editing for my personal collection, and it would likely be of interest to the community here. One project is heavy research on who did what animation. This started because I've been away from the fandom for decades, and noticed recently a hell of a lot of errors in information regarding the animation studios involved. This has been going on since I came across Hasbro Pulse TF eps on youtube several months ago, and you will see tons of comments left by me saying basically those 3 episodes (you know the ones) were absolutely NOT by AKOM, and a bunch of other mistaken assumptions came out of that mistaken assumption. It's amazing that no one seemed to make the connection to other, earlier Marvel shows. Remember "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends"? Since TF first aired, I immediately recognized animation similar to that show. Three eps are by Toei, but for all the rest, the credits say "Produced in association with MiHahn, Inc." They were a South Korean outfit, which according to scant info also outsourced to other studios. Whether any of those are based in the Phillipines, I don't know, but as far as I'm concerned, I go with "suspected to be by MiHahn". I'm maintaining a spreadsheet, and I will take everything else written here into consideration. When I'm finished identifying all AKOM eps to the best of my ability to detect these various animation techniques, I will let folks know. [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 20:27, 6 April 2023 (EDT)

:Anything helps, I'm getting really tired of trying to identify episodes by eye to the point I don't know how many I have accurate and how many I'm completely wrong about (the downside to acid testing is that there are plenty of episodes with similar styles). Both for Toei and AKOM alike. This is why I wish we had full production materials, if they still exist, regarding who did what, so can't wait for that spreadsheet. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 20:31, 8 April 2023 (EDT)

::Agreed with everything you say, but I haven't given up identifying by looking just yet. I now have other asks and thoughts available, '''so here's my update'''. I haven't completely ruled out AKOM possibly subcontracting whoever worked on what I call the three Season 2 "PSE-style" eps (for "Pan Sang East"). It's certainly not in-house. If that's what's happened, then I currently believe the ten non-Toei eps from Season 2 are all AKOM. I left a discussion note in "Only Human", and I'm writing one now for "Triple Takeover". I'm not ready to share the spreadsheet, but all of my thoughts and best guesses so far are now at my user page, and anyone can feel free to discuss there; I promise to consider everything. [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2023 (EDT)

::One more thing, because it occurred to me after being at the chat and after more research: I've said that Sam Young in Season 3 was such trash there's no point in comparing with anything else, but I've just run all the way thru the "Jem" series, and Sam Young's work seems to be quite a bit better, and that makes for a good reminder that '''budget''' may play as much of a role as any studio. We say that "Brigade" looks particularly nasty, so it couldn't be Sei Young, but I do see enough similarities that I don't disbelieve Sei Young involvement; it could be a matter of a lower budget making things worse and smushing the hell out of Powerglide's face, at least in this case. Check out the G.I. Joe episode "Haul Down the Heavens": I'm almost convinced it's the same situation, a really janky version of Sei Young. Some Sei Young stuff in "Defenders of the Earth" can get hella janky too at times. By the same token, Sam Young may have some arguably decent work in the "Jem" series, and then we get G1 "Carnage". I'm actually jealous of how many times Toei's good teams help the ladies out while us "lousy Autobot lovers" get shipped to Korea. [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2023 (EDT)

Talk:Unknown Generation 1 animation studios

2023-05-07T22:23:32Z

JoseBxR: /* I'm on a mission to identify all AKOM eps and it's quite a chore (update below) */

I did wonder about [http://www.philippinebusiness.com.ph/archives/magazine/vol9-2002/9-3/industry_p2.htm this news item] which [[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] linked to on the [[Talk:Toei Animation|Talk:Toei]] page, which seems to suggest that it was Toei's Filipino branch. But that were only set up in 1986, unless they're wrong about the date... --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:48, 7 July 2009 (EDT)
::Yeah, I forgot about that little nugget. I added it to the article, though since the dates don't match up, we can't be certain, I suppose. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 18:37, 7 July 2009 (EDT)

The current reference link for Burbank is a 404. --[[User:Flicky1991|flicky]][[User talk:Flicky1991|1991]] 14:38, 10 February 2016 (EST)

== Maybe it was Burbank Animation? ==

Maybe this studio was Burbank Animation? The studio was a Philippine division of Burbank Films Australia, based out of Makati, and multiple people who worked there mentioned several Marvel shows on their resume, including My Little Pony, Jem and Defenders of the Earth.--[[Special:Contributions/71.142.249.86|71.142.249.86]] 01:13, 4 November 2009 (EST)
:Indeed! And it was set up in 1983, so it'd fit the time period. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 02:04, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::[http://www.burbankanimation.com/ Burbank's official website] doesn't list any of their farmed-out work for other studios, unfortunately. IMDB doesn't even list their work prior to 1989. Then again, that site just seems to be focused on their Australian division with no mention of their Filipino joint. [http://asianjournal.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/filipinos-on-top-of-hollywood-animation/ This article] says the Filipino studio was founded in 1983, but I can't find anything listing the shows they've worked on. Any way we can get a link to interviews with some of those Burbank employees who said they worked on Marvel/Sunbow productions? --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 08:55, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::: I found a "Boy Sibulo Aureliano" who lists Transformers in his resume, and he wa an animator for Burbank Animations from '83 to '88. I've sent him an email. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 14:08, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::::Awesome. I know only, like, 4 people are going to end up caring, but if we manage to solve this mystery I think it'll be really, really cool. After that, we'll just have to find a way to figure out what 7 episodes from season 2 they animated. That might actually be even ''harder'' to figure out. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 14:10, 4 November 2009 (EST)
:::::Stuff like this is why the wiki exists. First we get more information on the horribly awesome (or awesomely horrible) Headmasters dub, and now the possibility of this. Fall's shaping up to be grand here. --[[User:Bluestreak7|Bluestreak7]] 14:18, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::::::Stuff like this is only going to help the wiki. (And hurt the server.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:29, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::If we can get some more names from people working for Burbank's Filipino division during hte 80s, we might be able to find their online resumes and hit paydirt. I've found [http://www.cristofani.com/resume.html a couple] [http://www.linkedin.com/in/jocelynsy so far], though none of the ones I've found list Transformers under the shows they worked on. We might be able to get lucky, though. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 14:34, 4 November 2009 (EST)
:::Keep trying. Figuring this out = this site gets a little more famous = this site gets a little more hits = this site climbs up in search engine rankings = the Squid caching system dies. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:37, 4 November 2009 (EST)
:I think Burbank is probably the most likely choice. I've been rooting around on Google and found [http://dirp3.pids.gov.ph/ris/taps/tapspp0102.pdf this PDF document] which says that the first animation company to open in the Philippines was Burbank in 83, followed by a company called Optifex and then Fil-Cartoon over the next couple of years. From various CVs and other sites I've found, Optifex was exclusively doing out-sourced work for Hanna-Barbera until 88, when Hanna-Barbera opened Fil-Cartoon as a wholly owned subsidiary and Optifex was left doing domestic animation before rebranding. So that only really leaves Burbank, who multiple people list as having worked on Jem, MLP and DotE on their CVs. Of course the other possibility is that Paul Davids was mistaken in saying that any of Transformers was sent to the Philippines and confused it with these other shows out-sourcing there. [[User:Danja|Danja]] 06:56, 14 July 2011 (EDT)
Ok, '''definitely not Burbank'''. I sent a Facebook message to Jess Espanola, currently an assistant director on the Simpsons and formerly an animator at Burbank at the time the episodes were animated and he actually replying, saying "We didn't do any Transformer shows at Burbank. Maybe Toei Animation studio did it because Toei had a subsidiary studio ijn the Philippines". [[User:Danja|Danja]] 04:54, 15 September 2011 (EDT)
:Quite out of the blue I got another Facebook message from Jess Espanola. He was in the Philippines last month and while seeing friends at Toei's Philippines branch asked about Transformers production (which is pretty awesome of him). The manager, Nestor Palabrica, confirmed that Toei Philippines did Transformers animation in '86 (so season three). Is this the first confirmation of Toei's Philippines branch working on G1? It might explain Davids' comments/memories. [[User:Danja|Danja]] 08:42, 20 June 2012 (EDT)
::Hey, uh, should this Toei stuff not be on the page? It seems to be the biggest lead we have... --[[User:Flicky1991|flicky]][[User talk:Flicky1991|1991]] 14:21, 30 June 2013 (EDT)
:::I think this has to be another mistaken recollection. The website says it was established in ''November'' 1986 - ''well'' after all of season 3 would have been produced. Literally the only thing it could refer to would be "The Return of Optimus Prime," which would mean its work is indistinguishable from Toei proper. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 19:08, 10 February 2016 (EST)
::::The original article that credited Toei's Philippine branch with working on Transformers also mentioned G.I. Joe (presumably only the Marvel/Sunbow version), the final episodes of which were broadcast in November 1986, which really messes things up! I checked the credits to the Joe movie, the only production released after this date, and there're no names or credits with an obvious Philippine connection, but there are a boatload of Japanese staff names credited under Toei. Therefore my suspicion is that the founding date of the studio genuinely might be off, and it's possible that they could actually have done some Transformers episodes prior to "The Return of Optimus Prime".

::::Being a Toei branch, I would expect them to have copies of the correct character models. Plus, Toei's old website indicated they were responsible for the animation for all 95 episodes of the original Joe series. Therefore, if the Philippine branch actually animated any of those Joe episodes, as is suggested in that article, Toei still counted it as their work. The same would have to apply to Transformers. I don't necessarily think any of the thirteen season 3 episodes most closely identified with Toei were done in the Philippines, as they generally have a higher standard of animation than many of Toei's season 2 episodes. An example of a very likely candidate for a prior episode that might have been animated by them would be "Starscream's Ghost".

::::Another possibility to muddy the waters further is that the "Transformers" credited to Toei's Philippine branch could actually have been episodes some of the later three Japanese-exclusive series. That article mentioned G.I. Joe, but also undisputed anime series Dragon Ball Z and Sailor Moon. There's a fair number of artistic variations to be found in the G1 anime episodes, particularly in Masterforce, where there are a few episodes that aren't *quite* up to scratch when it comes to character renditions.

::::Whoever the mysterious third studio was, I don't think it was Toei's Philippine branch. - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 20:06, 12 February 2016 (EST)

== [[Hasbro Q&A]] ==

Anyone tried the [[Hasbro Q&A]] yet? Maybe that ''might'' help. If no-one has, can somebody do that in the next Q&A? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 10:44, 11 June 2010 (EDT)
:No one has yet. Would Hasbro even have that information? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:59, 11 June 2010 (EDT)
:Maybe they don't.But it would be helpful if they can tell us pretty much ''anything'' whatsoever. That's better than what we have now. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 01:51, 12 June 2010 (EDT)

==Identification criteria?==

I just noticed that some while back, a user identified which episodes from season 2 were done by the Filipino studio. For the record, what visual criteria was used to identify those episodes, so I can make a note of it in the article? --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 12:10, 11 July 2013 (EDT)

==Is there any proof at all about Philippine animation?==
We're basing all of this on one writer's (who wasn't even involved in the animation production of the show) vague 30 year old recollection? I think it's very presumptuous to attribute those episodes to this likely non-existent studio. Japanese wikipedia lists Japanese studio Anime R ([[wikipedia:ja:アニメアール|アニメアール]]) as working on the show and also Korean studio [[Dai Won Animation Co.|Daewon Animation]] ([[wikipedia:ja:テウォンメディア|大元動画]]); it's more likely either of these studios did those episodes as they both worked on American cartoons during the '80s.{{unsigned|Evan1975}}

== I might have cracked it ==

If you didn't catch my edit to Inferno's article earlier today, I observed that his different head design (with a more rounded helmet, softer features, and differently-colored head fins) occurred in both "[[Auto Berserk]]" and "[[Kremzeek!]]", two episodes we'd previously suspected of being done by this mystery studio. Following this line of thought, I've done more studying, I think I might actually have spotted some visual clues that identify this studio's episodes. First off, "[[Make Tracks]]" also features Inferno's alternate head design. Further, all these episodes have a common trait - they soften the faces of new 1985 characters, by changing lines that are supposed to run from the points of their eyes down to their chins into more curved "cheekbone-ish" contours, making their faces look more like they're "one piece", instead of the collection of angled planes Toei normally do. "[[Triple Takeover]]" is another that's I've spotted that does this. Check out these comparisons of Red from "Auto-Berserk" and Astrotrain from "Triple Takeover" next to their angular, Toei faces from "The God Gambit":

[[File:Cheekbonescomparison.jpg|300px]]

I literally never noticed Astrotrain's grey helmet in this episode before, and I thought it could be another indicator to look for, but can't find any other instance of it. Adding in "[[A Prime Problem]]", which conventional wisdom has always held is animated by the same team as "[[Auto Berserk]]", that's five of the eight episodes. I've got more examining to do, but I really think I might be onto something with this - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 16:49, 12 January 2016 (EST)

:I think there were only 7 non-Toei, non-AKOM episodes from season 2, so you're even closer than you think. The onion in the ointment though is whether or not more than 7 episodes have traces of those clues. It could mean that Toei and the unknown studio did sections of the same episode (not unheard of) but that only makes things muddier. Keep us updated! --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 17:08, 12 January 2016 (EST)
::Just curious, but what's the criteria for picking "Prime Problem" out as a non-Toei episode? I recall The Guy We Had to Wipe From History had selected it, too. I don't recall it looking particularly unToei-like and the overall lack of season 2 characters to give the "cheekbone test" to makes it even harder. It also has little moments of nice animation, if I recall correctly, and the cited episodes like "Triple Takeover" and "Kremzeek" were all much more listless or just plain fugly. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 17:16, 12 January 2016 (EST)
:::It goes back to Zobovor. Both it and "Auto Berserk" have moments of pretty incomparable fluidity, and a general softness of line and warmth of colour about them. They both have scenes where a soft white "airbrush" effect is used to create a metallic effect that I don't know I've seen anywhere else in the show. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 17:21, 12 January 2016 (EST)
::::Gotcha. Now, I hate to even suggest this but... There's no guarantee that the 7 uncreditted episodes were ALL done by the same studio. There's a chance that multiple studios could have done them, hence why some seem to look better than others. OR, they could have ALL been done by the same studio like we've assumed, but different directors resulted in different looks and feels (like those season 1 episodes such as "Roll For It" that look super duper anime, while others don't look it at all). Working blind like this kinda sucks. I'm kind of wondering if we should change this article to something like "Unknown Generation 1 animation studio" rather than assume they were all done by the Filipino place (which may not have even been in the Philippines based on recent contention). --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 17:26, 12 January 2016 (EST)
:::::Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, to be honest. Fiddling around with this article to explain the sheer ambiguity of the whole thing would be a good move. If nothing else, I feel very confident about Inferno's alternate head being the biggest, most easily-spotted visual identifier. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]])
::::::OH-HO-HO!! I think I found another! In "Make Tracks," Tracks is coloured a bit differently to normal - in robot mode, he has black windows instead of clear ones, and his wheels are the same grey as his arms and legs, instead of the darker shade they normally are. Now, "Make Tracks" has the alternate Inferno head design, so I thought this alternate color model could be another hallmark to look out for, and after some searching, it appears in only one other episode - "The Secret of Omega Supreme", another famously shoddy one that was suspected of being non-Toei! That's six.... one more to suss out!! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 15:56, 22 January 2016 (EST)
:::::::It's always been a difficult exercise to try and identify the non-Toei, non-AKOM episodes of season 2, particularly since Toei clearly had multiple teams of animators working on the series. We know Toei did all of season 1 for instance, but there's a wild variation of animation styles and quality to be seen in those 16 episodes. Thus, the difference between a poorly animated Toei episode and one of the Filipino-animated episodes is not necessarily that distinct (such as the really shoddy Toei animation in "Divide and Conquer" or "The Ultimate Doom Part 1").
:::::::Two episodes not mentioned that I used to be fairly sure were animated by the Filipino studio are "[[War Dawn (episode)|War Dawn]]" and "[[Starscream's Brigade]]"; the style in both of them is just a little too off at times, particularly in the latter episode, even accounting for Toei's quality range. I agree that another suspect episode was "[[The Secret of Omega Supreme (episode)|The Secret of Omega Supreme]]", and as an added bonus, Astrotrain has his grey helmet in that episode too. His helmet is purple in "Starscream's Brigade", but they might have had access to the correct colour model by then.
:::::::That takes us to eight episodes, so the one I'd be tempted to knock off the list would be "A Prime Problem"; it's not up to standard efforts clearly from Toei, but other than the "airbrush" effect I wouldn't be quite as quick to identify it as one of the Filipino episodes, but instead a sub-par Toei effort.
:::::::From a real-world perspective, it probably makes sense that there would be a smattering of episodes from this studio produced roughly mid-to-late range in season 2, when Toei would also have been assigning animators to the Movie. - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 17:07, 22 January 2016 (EST)
::::::::I, too, considered "Starscream's Brigade," because it has that very soft, warm look, but I've discounted it because Grapple and Astrotrain (and following today's discovery, yep, Tracks) have the correct color models in it. We know from Akom's series-long goofs, it just wasn't likely that updated versions of these things got sent around. I DID miss that Astrotrain has the alternate helmet in "Secret," though!
::::::::Although it's certainly the case with "Secret" or "Kremzeek," I don't really think of "sub-par" as being a way of defining the non-Akom/Toei episodes. "A Prime Problem" and "Auto Berserk" have some really beautiful moments of fluid, high-frame rate stuff in them (the auto-scout weaving between the crytals, the missile shooting down the corridor into the bunker) that I don't know I can think of a really comparable example of from a Toei episodes. I spotted something similar in "Make Tracks" today, when Sideswipe tackles Ravage, that ties them together for me. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 17:20, 22 January 2016 (EST)
:::::::::For "sub-par", I'd refer to the actual character renderings rather than the fluidity of the animation itself, as the AKOM episodes are well-known for having some exceptionally fluid animated sequences. I still strongly suspect "Starscream's Brigade" was one of their episodes and that they simply had the colour models all updated by then. Personally, I wouldn't say it's necessarily a given that just because AKOM never received the correct colour models that the Filipino studio also never did, especially if they were a Toei subcontractor. Anyway, that's my take on it! - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 18:41, 22 January 2016 (EST)
:::::::::::I can't deny, I keep coming back to "Brigade," because it does have that soft-lined quality. But I'd still say "Prime Problem" or "Auto Berserk" have better character renderings than a low-end Toei episode! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 18:49, 22 January 2016 (EST)
I've been going through the suspect episodes again, and another colour-identifier to watch out for is Thrust; his shoulders and air intakes in robot mode are consistently red in every single shot he appears in both "Auto Berserk" and "Triple Takeover".

There's also a semi-recurrent error with Starscream's eyes occasionally being blue in "Auto Berserk", "Triple Takeover", and "Starscream's Brigade", but it's not quite as compelling an argument.

It's from 2012, but Zob [https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.toys.transformers/ro0LGSJfMD4/5M6uQVXqtqIJ| posted a list] on ATT (where else?) of his take on the non-Toei, non-AKOM episodes of season 2. Zob's list includes both "A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court" and "Hoist Goes Hollywood", which *really* look like Toei efforts.

Between us all, there's a consensus that "Make Tracks", "The Secret of Omega Supreme", "Kremzeek!" and "Triple Takeover" are almost certainly all non-Toei, non-AKOM episodes, and although Zob didn't include it in his list, observations on the episode make it pretty clear that "Auto Berserk" should also be included for a total 5 episodes identified.

Therefore, between all the lists, that would leave the remaining two episodes to probably be among "A Prime Problem", "War Dawn", or "Starscream's Brigade". Not much new here, but thought it worth noting! - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 17:56, 7 February 2016 (EST)
:OOh, good spot with Thrust's shoulders! I wonder what Zob was seeing "Hoist Goes Hollywood"? I can ''sort'' of see "Decepticon Raider" and "Brigade" we've talked about, but not that one. I think I'm going to put the five we've agreed upon up on the article, though. And also, move the article to a better name. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 14:22, 9 February 2016 (EST)
::Excellent work so far, as always! In the meantime, I've gone through the suspect episodes again, and I now agree with you on "A Prime Problem", and think the remaining episode is very probably "War Dawn". One of the smoking guns is the use (or lack thereof) of Toei-originated stock animation. That is, an episode featuring *two* Optimus Primes somehow doesn't use his stock transformation sequence at any point?

::Prime's stock transformation sequence does appear in "Starscream's Brigade", and they also tinker with it slightly as he gets in a whole line before actually transforming, so they clearly had access to the original cels. Every other episode that ever used the sequence was clearly a Toei-animated episode, so I think "Brigade" may just be one of their episodes assigned to a lesser team, like "Divide and Conquer" (which we know was a Toei episode).

::And of the episodes that didn't use Prime's transformation animation, this leaves "War Dawn" as the only other one that isn't in the same style as Toei's main animation teams. The aforementioned lack of season 2 characters makes this one really tough to 100% identify, but it's notable that the top of Slingshot's head is consistently white in every single shot, and we've seen before that the unknown studio were nothing if not consistent with their non-standard colours for newer characters. I know that particular error also cropped up in Toei episodes (most particularly "Aerial Assault"), but never for the entire episode, let alone one actually focussing on the Aerialbots. Yes, there's some Toei-looking shots in the episode, but these could have been retakes picked up by them later. - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 19:53, 9 February 2016 (EST)
:::Oh NICE, I would NOT have thought to look for Prime's stock footage! Actually, let's crunch the numbers on that out in the open here on the talk page for everyone playing along at home.
:::Okay, so, thanks to the Cybertron Chronicle's records of it, we know that the only season 2 episodes that DON'T have the stock footage in them are (taking its use in any two-parters as evidence that both parts were done by the same studio): "City of Steel," "The Autobot Run," "A Prime Problem," "The Core," "The Master Builders," "Auto Berserk," "Microbots," "Decepticon Raider," "Golden Lagoon," "God Gambit," "Make Tracks," "Quest for Survival," "Secret of Omega Supreme," "Kremzeek," "Sea Change," "Triple Takeover," "Prime Target," "Auto Bop," "Girl Who Loved Powerglide," "Hoist Goes Hollywood," "Aerial Assault," "War Dawn," "Trans Europe Express," "Cosmic Rust," and "BOT."
:::From that list, we can remove "City of Steel," "The Autobot Run," "The Core," "Auto Berserk," "Make Tracks," "Secret of Omega Supreme," "Kremzeek," and "Triple Takeover" as being the work of AKOM or ones we have definitely identified as "unknown studio" episodes based on the presence of outdated character models.
:::So then, going through the remaining episodes with that list of outdated character models as reference, we can eliminate the following episodes based on the fact the characters appear ''correctly'' in them: "The Master Builders" (Grapple, Inferno, and Tracks), "Microbots" (Smokescreen), "Golden Lagoon" (Thrust), "God Gambit" (Astrotrain), "Quest for Suvival" (Tracks, Smokescreen, and Grapple), "Sea Change" (Astrotrain), "Prime Target" (Astrotrain, Inferno, Grapple, and Tracks), "Auto Bop" (Tracks), "Girl Who Loved Powerglide" (Thrust), "Hoist Goes Hollywood" (Tracks, Astrotrain, and Thrust), "Trans Europe Express" (Tracks and Smokescreen), and "Cosmic Rust" (Astrotrain, Tracks, Smokescreen, and Inferno).
:::That leaves our only ''possible'' contenders as "A Prime Problem," "Decepticon Raider," "Aerial Assault," "War Dawn," and "BOT." "A Prime Problem" is visually quite distinct from all of these and I think we all agree it must be one of them. "BOT can be ruled out, as it features Ironhide using the generic Autobot laser pistol design, which only appears in Toei episodes. "Aerial Assault" is definitely ''way'' too good to be anything but a Toei episode, so that only leaves "Raider" and "War Dawn," but focusing on Slingshot's white skullcap, I checked out all his season 3 appearances, and he appears with it in ''every'' one of them animated by AKOM, which ''screams'' "outdated character model." Add that consistent use to the generally slipshod "War Dawn" (which also lacks the generic laser pistol, arming Ironhide and Ratchet with grey versions of Optimus's gun instead) and yes, I do believe we have our seven episodes!
:::Jon, what are you thoughts on my supposition that "Starscream's Ghost" and "Only Human" are also this studio's work? - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 06:57, 10 February 2016 (EST)
::::Aside from the general competence of animation being higher than an average AKOM episode, I've always had suspicions about both episodes, and before Toei's website put the numbers up I seriously thought "Only Human" could have been one of theirs. I remember Rik Bakke also saying he had a production schedule that claimed Toei animated "Starscream's Ghost", casting more suspicion on that episode, although we now know neither episode is from Toei, as the numbers literally don't add up.

::::Based on further observations, "Starscream's Ghost" and "Only Human" do look to be from the same animators as each other. I concentrated on Rodimus as he's one of the few characters prominently seen in both episodes. His spoiler is invariably depicted as being mostly horizontal rather than angled/curved (when seen from the front) in AKOM or Toei episodes. The tyres on his upper arms also seem to be coloured red quite often (like in the Toei episodes), but with the hub cap still rendered white (like the AKOM episodes). Most tellingly, his rifle is coloured the same way between both episodes, whereas otherwise it's either black (Toei) or red (AKOM).

::::One quirk both episodes share with clear AKOM episodes is the use of outdated colour schemes, as with Galvatron's pink (rather than purple "underpants". They also share with AKOM the colouring of the inside of the season 3 characters' mouths. Plus, the centre of the square just below Perceptor's chest is coloured red in AKOM episodes, as well as in "Starscream's Ghost" (it's only one shot, but it's there) and "Only Human". This is particularly notable, as in "The Secret of Omega Supreme", he has his correct colour scheme seen in Toei productions, with the square being coloured completely white. Starscream's colourful back, with the orange back cowling and blue engines, isn't seen in any other episode.

::::Another observation from the same episode is that Galvatron transforms twice, and each time this occurs, his particle cannon correctly detaches itself from his arm and joins back with him once he's transformed. AKOM really liked to "cheat" this, with the cannon being either being "swallowed up" in his transformation or simply falling out of shot, never seen to be reattaching itself. Only rarely was this depicted correctly outside of a Toei episode (although amazingly, one example can be seen in "Carnage in C-Minor").

::::Given the prominent and consistent use of outdated character designs and generally much higher-quality animation, I think it makes for a compelling argument that these two were not in fact animated by AKOM. If not for their use of blatantly outdated models, the same sort of confusion that we've seen with the seven season 2 episodes might have also applied to these two when comparing to Toei's efforts. Whether it was actually the same studio as the unknown one that worked on season 2 may still be up for debate however (why did they suddenly start using AKOM's colours for Perceptor?). But one of the biggest supporting factors, aside from animation quality, is probably their propensity for adding lips to the characters, like in their last pre-Movie episode, "War Dawn".

::::Between the shared colour schemes with AKOM, and AKOM's own episode-long use of Cyclonus's alternate character model in "The Rebirth Part 2", it's easy to see why these two episodes were lumped in with AKOM's work for years.

::::And on that note, it makes it all the more compelling an argument that maybe "Carnage in C-Minor" might not have been animated by AKOM after all either. AKOM tended to be consistent with their incorrect colour models, so it doesn't entirely make sense that for this one episode they suddenly started correctly colouring the inside of all the season 3 characters' mouths grey in every shot. AKOM look to have only stopped colouring the characters' mouths in the following season's "The Rebirth".

::::From a numbers point-of-view, it might make some sense that for season 3, Toei and AKOM both got 13 episode (i.e. a season's worth) orders, with the remaining episodes divided up into another three unknown studios. AKOM's work was bad, but there was a limit to how bad it got. "Carnage in C-Minor" is way underneath even AKOM's worst work.

::::Oh, and as a final observation I noticed two Thrusts show up with his alternate colour scheme in "Thief in the Night", if that's worth noting! - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 20:02, 12 February 2016 (EST)
:::::I find the thing I look for in particular on Rodimus is the extra trapezoid on his crotch, which isn't part of his "early" animation model, and so comes and goes from AKOM episodes depending what a particular scene is animated using. They ''always'' use the early ''colors'', though, like Galvatron (whose early model isn't very different and really quite tricky to spot), so it's never colored in, and that's made me miss it more than once when it's there. The curved tips to his shoudlers are probably a better "tell." His gun is that odd color scheme in some parts of FFoD too, as I recall.
:::::(Actually, speaking of Galvatron's early model, I ''think'' he might spend ''all'' of "Starscream's Ghost" in it.)
:::::The Perceptor thing might not be ''that'' unusual - there's at least one scene in "Triple Takeover" where Astrotrain has his purple helmet, and another in "Secret of Omega" too. If this is only one scene in "Starscream's Ghost," I ''feeeeel'' like it's maybe negligible for our purposes.
:::::It's sounding like it might be a good idea to move this page to "Unknown Generation 1 animation studio'''s'''", so we can detail all of this on it. That "thirteen episode" theory makes an ''aaaaawful'' lot of sense...
:::::I also spotted the red Thrusts after you pointed them out in the other episodes, and I went looking to see if AKOM did them too! AKOM ''also'' used grey-helmet Astrotrain consistently, I discovered! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 20:40, 12 February 2016 (EST)
===A sudden twist!===
But wait! Could it be! I've just discovered that ''Hoist'' also has an early color model! In Toei episodes, the hinge in the centre of his chest is solid orange, and his tyres are white on the circular side, and black on the edge. On his outdate model, only the outermost points of his chest hinge are orange, with the central piece being green (which is actually-toy accurate), and his tyres are completely white (which is not). Like the others, this model appears in the original advert for the toy... in "Auto Berserk"... in "Kremzeek!"... '''aaaand'''... in "Decepticon Raider"!!!! Coooooould just be we've made the wrong call on "War Dawn" - the only potential monkey wrench is that for the three shots of "Kremzeek!" he appears in, Hoist is in his outdated model for two of them, but his finalized model for one, but then, that happens with Astrotrain in other episodes too. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 17:17, 16 February 2016 (EST)
:I am consistently impressed and intimidated by your thoroughness to this endeavor. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 17:21, 16 February 2016 (EST)
::As am I. Say, it sounds like most of the 2nd year Autobot Cars have alternate models...have you tried checking [[Skids (G1)|Skids]]'s appearance in [[Triple Takeover]] for differences with his other appearance in [[Quest for Survival]]? Perhaps he had different models as well, aseeing as how he's grouped with them (sort of). Just a thought. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep|talk]]) 18:07, 16 February 2016 (EST)
:::I haven't mentioned it as we're already certain about "Triple Takeover," but he does, actually! His Toei color model is a bit piecemeal anyway, as it colors parts that ought to be the same shade of blue in a mixture of dark and pale blues. In "TT," his robot mode appearances are all tiny figures in the distance, but his windows are light instead of dark, and the top of his chest is consistently the lighter blue, compared to the darker blue it was in "Quest."
:::Red Alert also has an alternate model, but it's barely worth noting, as "Auto Berserk" is on the only "unknown studio" episode he appears in, and the only difference is that they colour him bright white instead of off-white. But that ''does'' mean that all the '85 cars have early models; I suspect these were drawn up for the commercial that starred all of them (except Skids), and were later refined. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 19:00, 16 February 2016 (EST)
::::Yes, another good catch on Hoist! The 1985 Autobot Cars commercial that his, and the other alternate models appear in, is definitely the key. I haven't seen the clearer copy that's on Youtube before now, but taking a closer look, the clear airbrushed look on Optimus Prime does look atypical for Toei's work. I wonder if the other studio animated this ad?
::::There are elements of "Raider" that do still look like Toei work, such as the faces of the human cast in multiple shots. Could this be circumstantial evidence that the other studio may have been a Japanese one? Plus the inclusion of an in-joke referencing Dungeons & Dragons (26 of its 27 episodes animated by Toei) is another element that originally threw the scent off. "Hank" may have been included in the original storyboards by a Marvel staffer, or perhaps by the same studio who did the one non-Toei D&D episode (I don't know which one it is, but it's a first season episode according to the old Toei website).
::::If Hoist's other model literally appears in no other episode that we've identified as being a Toei episode, then "Raider" *has* to be included in the list of non-Toei ones. "War Dawn" is the obvious suspect to remove, but Slingshot's persistently white skullcap is still a noteworthy anomaly. If we're agreed it's a Toei episode, then it may very well have been done by the same low-rent team that did "Starscream's Brigade".
::::With all the animation and production memorabilia collectors out there, it would be nice if *someone* had documentation that proved *something* - most crucially, the names of the other studios! - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 19:04, 17 February 2016 (EST)
:::::My only qualm with the Unknown Studio being Japanese in origin is all the bad Japanese text seen in "Kremzeek!" There's the possibility that the Unknown Studio farmed those backgrounds out to one of the Korean sub studios like Dai Won that did in-betweening and photography work, but that's getting so nitty-gritty we'd never be able to figure it out. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 10:15, 18 February 2016 (EST)
:::::Oh YEAH, look at that! I didn't look closely at Prime before but yeah, there's the airbrushing from "Auto Berserk" and "A Prime Problem!" You know, it makes an extra little touch of sense that "A Prime Problem" would be the first episode to be done by this studio, if they did this commercial, being that it's the first one to feature any new 1985 product - in the script from the Ron Friedman auction, there are even deleted scenes that show it was supposed to introduce Inferno and Ramjet as well.
:::::Y'know, I took a quick look, and Slingshot's even got his white skullcap in "Call of the Primitives." Added to the times it popped up in Toei episodes, if this was an early model (and it probably was since AKOM used it all the time), it seems like it must have made it pretty late in there. Like maybe his full-body model had the white head and his close-up head turnaround had the orange - two models that would have co-existed at Toei, and so the studio would have had them both at the same time and gone back and forth between them, but the head turnaround wouldn't likely have made it out to AKOM. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 12:05, 18 February 2016 (EST)

AND HERE'S ANOTHER!! Thinking about "Decepticon Raider" and Warpath, I remembered the inconsistency we have noted on his article about what his face did when he talked, and thought there could be something to check there. So, yes, for my sins, I have just checked... sigh... every single piece of season 2 Warpath dialogue outside of "Raider"... and they are ALL in Toei episodes, and ALL* of the episodes in which his face is shown (because he delivers a LOT of his dialogue in tank mode, and from off-screen), he has the glowing blue slats. It's only in "Raider" that his mouthplate jiggles (and taking a second look, it actually only does ''that'' in one or two scenes, not moving otherwise) which seems to me to be more evidence it's done by the Unknown Studio.

(*Mitigating circumstances for "Quest for Survival," in which Warpath does not have the slats, but the only line he speaks while his face is on-screen in the episode is the partial finishing-off of a sentence begun from off-screen, which I think is enough to mitigate them not doing the effect. His plate certainly doesn't jiggle either.) - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:48, 18 February 2016 (EST)

==That's some good work, Lou==

I didn't follow half of your sleuthing, but I believe it, so good job Chris and Jon. With the 7 episodes more or less pinpointed, do you want to update the Season 2 info boxes to state the unknown studio definitively and not just "Toei (maybe)"? --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 12:53, 18 February 2016 (EST)
::Hey, thanks, Chief! I feel pretty good about going ahead and doing that. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:48, 18 February 2016 (EST)

== Carnage in C-Minor ==

Feeling like I'm on a roll, I decided to go back to Jon's suggestion that "Carnage in C-Minor" might not have been an AKOM episode, but the work of another unknown studio, since it's ''so'' bad, and lacks AKOM's characteristic interior-mouth coloring. I don't know that I've found anything useful yet - Soundwave's still in the wrong color scheme, Devastator still uses his oudated color model, like normal AKOM episodes, but I thought Broadside might be one to look at, since his outdated model extends to his alternate forms, rather than just his robot mode. "Carnage" was his first robot mode appearance, but when AKOM animated him again in "Grimlock's New Brain," they used his finalized model, and if we've learned anything from this endeavour, it's that studios that weren't Toei didn't get updated materials. So here's what I found: in "The Killing Jar," Broadside appears only in jet mode, but it's the jet mode from his finalized model. In "Thief in the Night," he appears only in carrier mode; in his first scene, it's a conglomerate of both his early and finished models - the hull of his early model, but the communications tower of his finished model (they have different dishes) - but in his second, transporting the Autobots, it's all the old model. And in "Carnage," both his robot and jet are from the early model... but the carrier is from the ''finished'' model. So... no, I don't know what to make of that at all. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 05:42, 20 February 2016 (EST)

==Companies mentioned on animenewsnetwork.com==

Has anyone looked into the companies listed as having worked, uncredited, in the animation for the Transformers TV series according to animenewsnetwork.com ? According to them, Anime R, Ashi Productions, Kaname Production, Nakamura Production, and TMS Entertainment (Tokyo Movie Shinsha) all did so.
:Firstly, ANN isn't always an accurate source of information thanks to it being user-contributed like this wiki. So information isn't always accurate to a fault. Second, most of those companies, save Ashi, are already on the main page listed as support studios. While we can't rule out anything based on what little information we actually have on the studios to begin with, I'd highly doubt they'd be hired by anyone else but Toei to work on the series. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 20:04, 10 December 2018 (EST)

== Ashi Productions ==

The page for "[[Call of the Primitives]]" says based on the staff and timing, the episode was likely animated by this company, [[Ashi Productions]]? They don't seem to be based in the Philippines, but as a Toei subcontractor would they be a contender for this studio? - [[User:TFfan1|TFfan1]], March 29 2020, 11:09 PST
:The animation style of "Call of the Primitives" is completely different from any of the episodes we've attributed to this studio, so unlikely. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 14:14, 29 March 2020 (EDT)

== Sei Young Animation Co ==

A possibility worth exploring is Korean company Sei Young Animation Co. Marvel used them for 63 episodes of Defenders Of The Earth in 1985 and 1986. They had a very Toei-esque style, having collaborated with them at various points since 1978. It would make sense if the purpose of sending 10 episodes to other studios in season 2, apart from the immediate benefit of taking pressure off Toei, was a test run before commissioning these studios full-time on other shows (AKOM would gradually become Marvel's primary animator). [[User:Greebtron|Greebtron]] ([[User talk:Greebtron|talk]]) 20:18, 21 April 2020 (EDT)
: I think you might be on to something here, at least with a few of the uglier looking episodes like "Kremzeek". It reminds me a bit of the feel and quality seen in some Toei-associated episodes of the time like "Child's Play" or "The Gambler". Heck, it actually wouldn't surprise me if Sei Young actually did those episodes too (under contract of Toei and not Marvel directly, of course). But that's just my thoughts on the matter, anyway. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 19:43, 20 July 2020 (EDT)

== (Season 3) Toei's 13th episode? ==

So I was skimming through the Season 3 episode articles because this was bothering me, but since "Surprise Party" was recently found out to be a Sei Young episode, that leaves Toei with only twelve confirmed Season 3 episodes, even though their resume says they did thirteen.

So my theories are:

1. Either "Surprise Party" was a Toei episode that Sei Young worked on (which would be expected giving their working relationship) and Sei Young simply sent Marvel the finished episode in Toei's place (I don't know the ins-and-outs of outsourcing animation but I think it's a possibility), leaving "Call of the Primitives" the weird outlier.

OR

2. "Surprise Party" was directly assigned to Sei Young, and "Call of the Primitives" was assigned to Toei, and Toei decided to subcontract the work to another studio (possibly Ashi Productions, going by the trivia note on the episode page). We know AKOM did the same thing with "Starscream's Ghost" and "Only Human", so it's not without precedent.

I could just be rambling nonsense, and the edit to the "Surprise" article was very recent, but I felt this needed to be brought up. --[[User:TheAmazingPoncho|TheAmazingPoncho]] ([[User talk:TheAmazingPoncho|talk]]) 21:33, 28 July 2020 (EDT)

== A possibility, perhaps? ==

So seeing how we finally found out that "Call' was a Toei episode farmed to another company ([[Studio Look]]), it got me wondering about Ashi Pro's involvement in the series regarding their work on the show and I found [https://w.atwiki.jp/sakuga/?cmd=word&word=%E3%83%88%E3%83%A9%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B9%E3%83%95%E3%82%A9%E3%83%BC%E3%83%9E%E3%83%BC&type=&pageid=309 this]. It mentions both Habara's involvement on "Heavy Metal War" and Ashi's overall work on the show to his best recollection. The other episodes featured are labeled as "3, 8, 13, 22 and 32". Problem number 1 is that it's difficult as to what order the list is referring to as the English and Japanese broadcast airings are different to both.

Going by the English order, the episodes consist of "More Than Meets the Eye, Part 3", "S.O.S. Dinobots", "The Ultimate Doom, Part 3", "The Imobilizer" and "The Master Builders". Whereas in Japanese, while the first episode is identical, the other ones in that order consists of "War of the Dinobots", "Traitor", "A Prime Problem" and "The God Gambit". Problem no. 2 with that is with the Japanese order, which just straight on Toei or Korean-contracted-under-Toei titles (barring "Prime Problem", which we know is the work of the still-unidentified mystery studio), so I assume the page meant the original English order, which by extension marks "Roll For It" as a possible Ashi episode due to the similarities between it and "S.O.S." But again, that order is also pretty suspect as neither "Imobilizer" or "Master Builders" look anything like an Ashi-contracted episode and more like one of the Toei-supervised Korean episodes of Season 2.

Still, thought this was interesting all things considered. Any thoughts? [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 17:14, 12 September 2020 (EDT)
:What if you exclude the More Than Meets the Eye miniseries from the enumeration? It was produced separately, after all. What are episodes 3, 8, 13, 22, and 32 then? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 19:00, 12 September 2020 (EDT)
:And could it only be referring to Season 2? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 19:03, 12 September 2020 (EDT)
::Now that's the million dollar question I want to know the answer to, as the page I linked to considers it and the rest of Season 1 as one entity and not two separately produced batches. Not to mention this very wiki doesn't seem to discern the difference either and lumps the pilot in with the rest of the series, so I'm mostly basing my speculations towards that. Also, I think the count is for both, Seasons 1 and 2 if we take that into consideration. Only thing to do now is either ask Habara for clarification or wait until production sheets for the first two seasons surface before making better judgement.[[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 11:43, 14 September 2020 (EDT)
:::Seasons 1 and 2 use the same format of production codes, but the pilot is separate. The pilot is codes 4023, 4024, and 4025. Season 1 proper runs from 700-01 to 700-13 and Season 2 runs from 700-16 to 700-64. You have to go to the individual episode pages to get these, though. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 11:49, 14 September 2020 (EDT)
::::3 = [[Divide and Conquer]], 8 = [[The Ultimate Doom, Part 1]], 13 = [[Heavy Metal War]], 22 = [[The Autobot Run]], and 32 = [[Auto Berserk]], based on production codes.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 10:56, 21 September 2020 (EDT)
:::::And that makes no sense we we already know The Autobot Run is very obviously AKOM, which again brings up the question of what the source I found is exactly meaning with its episode order. There's also the fact that the page seem to explicitly mention Heavy Metal War's order in both versions of the series (10 in Japanese, 16 in the original US). So I don't really know what to think.[[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 14:29, 26 September 2020 (EDT)

== Asking Dery ==

This might be opening a ''terrible'' idea (I've read his talk page), but do you think if anyone could get a hold of Floro Dery he could shed some light on this? He was a design supervisor and ''might'' have some info? I also have no idea if he's lived in the Philippines for all this time but if he was in the animation scene around then he might have a better idea of what studios were operating at the time that could've been the illusive studio. [[User:TransFormersfan1|TransFormersfan1]] ([[User talk:TransFormersfan1|talk]]) 13:18, 2 December 2020 (EST)

== Another Possibility ==

Been sitting on this for a while now, but a thought crossed my mind fairly recently. With the reveal that Sei Young was the one responsible (or at least credited for) Surprise Party, it got me to thinking- What if one or more of the episodes attributed to this unknown studio are actually Sei Young's work? Comparing their work on Surprise Party or even Season 2 episodes credited to Toei like Child's Play or The Master Builders to say, Kremzeek or Triple Takeover, they look pretty similar. Call me crazy, but I certainly feel I might have stumbled onto something. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 21:25, 23 January 2021 (EST)

== A Possible Suggestion ==

I know this is probably a longshot, but has anyone actually asked any of the show's animators on the Japanese side of things? Not many of the US-based crew seem willing to answer (presuming they even have the materials to begin with), but I feel like if anyone could get in touch with an animator from the Japan side of the coin. We could hopefully get a better idea as to who did what episode. The problem though, from what I see is two-fold. The first is that I wouldn't know which among us would even know enough Japanese to properly ask the question in the first place. The second is whether or not said animators would even remember working on the show to begin with (assuming they did in the first place). Especially since for most of them it'd be among their first credits, and animators who were active during the 1980s usually seem to ignore that period where Japan got most of America's animation outside of some exceptions. Either way though, I think it'd be worth an attempt if nothing more. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 01:16, 15 July 2022 (EDT)

==Shin Won?==

I tweeted to the Wiki account and [[User:Chris_McFeely|Chris McFeely]] about this last year and promptly forgot all about it, but it's a possible lead. The [https://web.archive.org/web/20211201064759/https://digilander.libero.it/dottor_vaffa/ Megna Co-Productions database] lists the following studios as having worked on Transformers: Toei, Sei Young, Dai Won, Shin Won, Sam Young and Akom. Most of those are accounted for here, except Shin Won, so I did some digging.

According to the [https://www.kmdb.or.kr/db/per/00003442 Korean Movie Database] they were known as "Educational Fairy Tale" (or just Gyoyuk, which I guess is Korean for educational fairy tale - I'm using Google Translate for most of this) until 1986, when they became Shin Won and then "Production Grimi" in the late 90s. They're now defunct, it seems. Their [https://web.archive.org/web/20030215231041fw_/http://www.grimi.co.kr/index02.html official website circa 2003] (thanks to the Wayback Machine) has them claiming credit for work on various anime, Transformers, GI Joe, Jem, Real Ghostbusters, Dennis and, crucially, Teddy Ruxpin. Checking back on Megna, the Shin Won is the ''only'' studio attributed to Teddy Ruxpin. The [https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/company.php?id=1361 Anime News Network] profile for them has them credited on different shows with everything from "colour co-ordination check" to in-betweening to finish animation to paint to just "animation". So while it's entirely possible their contribution to Transformers was out-source assistance work to Toei or Akom, like Dai Won and Sam Young, that variety of contributions and Teddy Ruxpin suggests they're capable of producing entire episodes independently and so could be the mystery studio.

There are potential issues with this of course. First is that Wikipedia credits Teddy Ruxpin to Atkinson Film-Arts (along with DiC), who I don't know enough about to know whether they animated in-house or out-sourced the main work uncredited. Megna doesn't mention Atkinson at all for Teddy Ruxpin. Second is that Megna doesn't cite its sources, although Shin Won's own website is presumably the source in this case. Would they have reason to lie? Seems unlikely, but can't be ruled out, I guess. I suppose the acid test would be watching some Teddy Ruxpin. [[User:Danja|Danja]] ([[User talk:Danja|talk]]) 07:02, 26 January 2023 (EST)

:It's possible, That database is weird when it comes to listing outsourcing studios. And given how little we know about the studios in question (acid testing is how I was able to deduce some of the efforts of Anime R, Nakamura Pro, and Studio Look for Toei's episodes since two of them --R and Look-- lack websites and the third --Nakamura Pro-- ''has'' a website, but lacks a proper resume thanks to all the work they've done), it's possible we might have Shin Won doing an episode or two on their own. And if so, I can see them handling "Krmezeek", "Triple Takeover" and "The Secret of Omega Supreme" at least, leaving "Make Tracks", "A Prime Problem" and "Auto-Berserk" the remaining outliers if that is the case.

:As far as Teddy Ruxpin is concerned, Atkinson handled most of the pre-production services. The animation, as per usual with DiC, went to Asian studios uncredited (no idea if this tied into union rules being exploited like with Marvel, or DiC just being dicks), so Shin Won being involved might be something to look into so we can try and acid wash some of their episodes. Again, it bites not having the proper documentation for these things.[[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 05:18, 4 February 2023 (EST)

UPDTATE (since I forgot this thought initially): Is it possible that Shin Won also worked on some of the uglier-looking Toei episodes as well? I'm looking over some of the more infamous ones like "Child's Play" and "Starscream's Brigade" (credited to both Nakamura Pro and Sei Young alongside Toei currently; though I have my doubts about the Korean studio's involvement going over it), and it certainly feels like "Kremzeek" and "Triple Takeover" both have similar faults as the other episodes I just mentioned. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 13:25, 14 February 2023 (EST)

==I'm on a mission to identify all AKOM eps and it's quite a chore (update below)==

Longtime G1 fan, 1st time caller here. I can't say much now, because I have zero free time, but I'm just starting a couple of huge projects relating to a library of G1 episodes I'm editing for my personal collection, and it would likely be of interest to the community here. One project is heavy research on who did what animation. This started because I've been away from the fandom for decades, and noticed recently a hell of a lot of errors in information regarding the animation studios involved. This has been going on since I came across Hasbro Pulse TF eps on youtube several months ago, and you will see tons of comments left by me saying basically those 3 episodes (you know the ones) were absolutely NOT by AKOM, and a bunch of other mistaken assumptions came out of that mistaken assumption. It's amazing that no one seemed to make the connection to other, earlier Marvel shows. Remember "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends"? Since TF first aired, I immediately recognized animation similar to that show. Three eps are by Toei, but for all the rest, the credits say "Produced in association with MiHahn, Inc." They were a South Korean outfit, which according to scant info also outsourced to other studios. Whether any of those are based in the Phillipines, I don't know, but as far as I'm concerned, I go with "suspected to be by MiHahn". I'm maintaining a spreadsheet, and I will take everything else written here into consideration. When I'm finished identifying all AKOM eps to the best of my ability to detect these various animation techniques, I will let folks know. [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 20:27, 6 April 2023 (EDT)

:Anything helps, I'm getting really tired of trying to identify episodes by eye to the point I don't know how many I have accurate and how many I'm completely wrong about (the downside to acid testing is that there are plenty of episodes with similar styles). Both for Toei and AKOM alike. This is why I wish we had full production materials, if they still exist, regarding who did what, so can't wait for that spreadsheet. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 20:31, 8 April 2023 (EDT)

::Agreed with everything you say, but I haven't given up identifying by looking just yet. I now have other asks and thoughts available, '''so here's my update'''. I haven't completely ruled out AKOM possibly subcontracting whoever worked on what I call the three Season 2 "PSE-style" eps (for "Pan Sang East"). It's certainly not in-house. If that's what's happened, then I currently believe the ten non-Toei eps from Season 2 are all AKOM. I left a discussion note in "Only Human", and I'm writing one now for "Triple Takeover". I'm not ready to share the spreadsheet, but all of my thoughts and best guesses so far are now at my user page, and anyone can feel free to discuss there; I promise to consider everything. [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2023 (EDT)

::One more thing, because it occurred to me after being at the chat and after more research: I've said that Sam Young in Season 3 was such trash there's no point in comparing with anything else, but I've just run all the way thru the "Jem" series, and Sam Young's work seems to be quite a bit better, and that makes for a good reminder that '''budget''' may play as much of a role as any studio. We say that "Brigade" looks particularly nasty, so it couldn't be Sei Young, but I do see enough similarities that I don't disbelieve Sei Young involvement; it could be a matter of a lower budget making things worse and smushing the hell out of Powerglide's face, at least in this case. Check out the G.I. Joe episode "Haul Down the Heavens": I'm almost convinced it's the same situation, a really janky version of Sei Young. Some Sei Young stuff in "Defenders of the Earth" can get hella janky too at times. By the same token, Sam Young may have some arguably decent work in the "Jem" series, and then we get G1 "Carnage". I'm actually jealous of how many times Toei's good teams help the ladies out while us "lousy Autobot lovers" get shipped to Korea. [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2023 (EDT)

User talk:JoseBxR

2023-05-07T22:16:51Z

JoseBxR: Blanked the page

User:JoseBxR

2023-05-07T22:08:14Z

JoseBxR: /* Recycling */

Talk:Unknown Generation 1 animation studios

2023-05-07T08:18:43Z

JoseBxR: /* I'm on a mission to identify all AKOM eps and it's quite a chore (update below) */

I did wonder about [http://www.philippinebusiness.com.ph/archives/magazine/vol9-2002/9-3/industry_p2.htm this news item] which [[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] linked to on the [[Talk:Toei Animation|Talk:Toei]] page, which seems to suggest that it was Toei's Filipino branch. But that were only set up in 1986, unless they're wrong about the date... --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:48, 7 July 2009 (EDT)
::Yeah, I forgot about that little nugget. I added it to the article, though since the dates don't match up, we can't be certain, I suppose. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 18:37, 7 July 2009 (EDT)

The current reference link for Burbank is a 404. --[[User:Flicky1991|flicky]][[User talk:Flicky1991|1991]] 14:38, 10 February 2016 (EST)

== Maybe it was Burbank Animation? ==

Maybe this studio was Burbank Animation? The studio was a Philippine division of Burbank Films Australia, based out of Makati, and multiple people who worked there mentioned several Marvel shows on their resume, including My Little Pony, Jem and Defenders of the Earth.--[[Special:Contributions/71.142.249.86|71.142.249.86]] 01:13, 4 November 2009 (EST)
:Indeed! And it was set up in 1983, so it'd fit the time period. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 02:04, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::[http://www.burbankanimation.com/ Burbank's official website] doesn't list any of their farmed-out work for other studios, unfortunately. IMDB doesn't even list their work prior to 1989. Then again, that site just seems to be focused on their Australian division with no mention of their Filipino joint. [http://asianjournal.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/filipinos-on-top-of-hollywood-animation/ This article] says the Filipino studio was founded in 1983, but I can't find anything listing the shows they've worked on. Any way we can get a link to interviews with some of those Burbank employees who said they worked on Marvel/Sunbow productions? --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 08:55, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::: I found a "Boy Sibulo Aureliano" who lists Transformers in his resume, and he wa an animator for Burbank Animations from '83 to '88. I've sent him an email. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 14:08, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::::Awesome. I know only, like, 4 people are going to end up caring, but if we manage to solve this mystery I think it'll be really, really cool. After that, we'll just have to find a way to figure out what 7 episodes from season 2 they animated. That might actually be even ''harder'' to figure out. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 14:10, 4 November 2009 (EST)
:::::Stuff like this is why the wiki exists. First we get more information on the horribly awesome (or awesomely horrible) Headmasters dub, and now the possibility of this. Fall's shaping up to be grand here. --[[User:Bluestreak7|Bluestreak7]] 14:18, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::::::Stuff like this is only going to help the wiki. (And hurt the server.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:29, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::If we can get some more names from people working for Burbank's Filipino division during hte 80s, we might be able to find their online resumes and hit paydirt. I've found [http://www.cristofani.com/resume.html a couple] [http://www.linkedin.com/in/jocelynsy so far], though none of the ones I've found list Transformers under the shows they worked on. We might be able to get lucky, though. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 14:34, 4 November 2009 (EST)
:::Keep trying. Figuring this out = this site gets a little more famous = this site gets a little more hits = this site climbs up in search engine rankings = the Squid caching system dies. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:37, 4 November 2009 (EST)
:I think Burbank is probably the most likely choice. I've been rooting around on Google and found [http://dirp3.pids.gov.ph/ris/taps/tapspp0102.pdf this PDF document] which says that the first animation company to open in the Philippines was Burbank in 83, followed by a company called Optifex and then Fil-Cartoon over the next couple of years. From various CVs and other sites I've found, Optifex was exclusively doing out-sourced work for Hanna-Barbera until 88, when Hanna-Barbera opened Fil-Cartoon as a wholly owned subsidiary and Optifex was left doing domestic animation before rebranding. So that only really leaves Burbank, who multiple people list as having worked on Jem, MLP and DotE on their CVs. Of course the other possibility is that Paul Davids was mistaken in saying that any of Transformers was sent to the Philippines and confused it with these other shows out-sourcing there. [[User:Danja|Danja]] 06:56, 14 July 2011 (EDT)
Ok, '''definitely not Burbank'''. I sent a Facebook message to Jess Espanola, currently an assistant director on the Simpsons and formerly an animator at Burbank at the time the episodes were animated and he actually replying, saying "We didn't do any Transformer shows at Burbank. Maybe Toei Animation studio did it because Toei had a subsidiary studio ijn the Philippines". [[User:Danja|Danja]] 04:54, 15 September 2011 (EDT)
:Quite out of the blue I got another Facebook message from Jess Espanola. He was in the Philippines last month and while seeing friends at Toei's Philippines branch asked about Transformers production (which is pretty awesome of him). The manager, Nestor Palabrica, confirmed that Toei Philippines did Transformers animation in '86 (so season three). Is this the first confirmation of Toei's Philippines branch working on G1? It might explain Davids' comments/memories. [[User:Danja|Danja]] 08:42, 20 June 2012 (EDT)
::Hey, uh, should this Toei stuff not be on the page? It seems to be the biggest lead we have... --[[User:Flicky1991|flicky]][[User talk:Flicky1991|1991]] 14:21, 30 June 2013 (EDT)
:::I think this has to be another mistaken recollection. The website says it was established in ''November'' 1986 - ''well'' after all of season 3 would have been produced. Literally the only thing it could refer to would be "The Return of Optimus Prime," which would mean its work is indistinguishable from Toei proper. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 19:08, 10 February 2016 (EST)
::::The original article that credited Toei's Philippine branch with working on Transformers also mentioned G.I. Joe (presumably only the Marvel/Sunbow version), the final episodes of which were broadcast in November 1986, which really messes things up! I checked the credits to the Joe movie, the only production released after this date, and there're no names or credits with an obvious Philippine connection, but there are a boatload of Japanese staff names credited under Toei. Therefore my suspicion is that the founding date of the studio genuinely might be off, and it's possible that they could actually have done some Transformers episodes prior to "The Return of Optimus Prime".

::::Being a Toei branch, I would expect them to have copies of the correct character models. Plus, Toei's old website indicated they were responsible for the animation for all 95 episodes of the original Joe series. Therefore, if the Philippine branch actually animated any of those Joe episodes, as is suggested in that article, Toei still counted it as their work. The same would have to apply to Transformers. I don't necessarily think any of the thirteen season 3 episodes most closely identified with Toei were done in the Philippines, as they generally have a higher standard of animation than many of Toei's season 2 episodes. An example of a very likely candidate for a prior episode that might have been animated by them would be "Starscream's Ghost".

::::Another possibility to muddy the waters further is that the "Transformers" credited to Toei's Philippine branch could actually have been episodes some of the later three Japanese-exclusive series. That article mentioned G.I. Joe, but also undisputed anime series Dragon Ball Z and Sailor Moon. There's a fair number of artistic variations to be found in the G1 anime episodes, particularly in Masterforce, where there are a few episodes that aren't *quite* up to scratch when it comes to character renditions.

::::Whoever the mysterious third studio was, I don't think it was Toei's Philippine branch. - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 20:06, 12 February 2016 (EST)

== [[Hasbro Q&A]] ==

Anyone tried the [[Hasbro Q&A]] yet? Maybe that ''might'' help. If no-one has, can somebody do that in the next Q&A? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 10:44, 11 June 2010 (EDT)
:No one has yet. Would Hasbro even have that information? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:59, 11 June 2010 (EDT)
:Maybe they don't.But it would be helpful if they can tell us pretty much ''anything'' whatsoever. That's better than what we have now. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 01:51, 12 June 2010 (EDT)

==Identification criteria?==

I just noticed that some while back, a user identified which episodes from season 2 were done by the Filipino studio. For the record, what visual criteria was used to identify those episodes, so I can make a note of it in the article? --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 12:10, 11 July 2013 (EDT)

==Is there any proof at all about Philippine animation?==
We're basing all of this on one writer's (who wasn't even involved in the animation production of the show) vague 30 year old recollection? I think it's very presumptuous to attribute those episodes to this likely non-existent studio. Japanese wikipedia lists Japanese studio Anime R ([[wikipedia:ja:アニメアール|アニメアール]]) as working on the show and also Korean studio [[Dai Won Animation Co.|Daewon Animation]] ([[wikipedia:ja:テウォンメディア|大元動画]]); it's more likely either of these studios did those episodes as they both worked on American cartoons during the '80s.{{unsigned|Evan1975}}

== I might have cracked it ==

If you didn't catch my edit to Inferno's article earlier today, I observed that his different head design (with a more rounded helmet, softer features, and differently-colored head fins) occurred in both "[[Auto Berserk]]" and "[[Kremzeek!]]", two episodes we'd previously suspected of being done by this mystery studio. Following this line of thought, I've done more studying, I think I might actually have spotted some visual clues that identify this studio's episodes. First off, "[[Make Tracks]]" also features Inferno's alternate head design. Further, all these episodes have a common trait - they soften the faces of new 1985 characters, by changing lines that are supposed to run from the points of their eyes down to their chins into more curved "cheekbone-ish" contours, making their faces look more like they're "one piece", instead of the collection of angled planes Toei normally do. "[[Triple Takeover]]" is another that's I've spotted that does this. Check out these comparisons of Red from "Auto-Berserk" and Astrotrain from "Triple Takeover" next to their angular, Toei faces from "The God Gambit":

[[File:Cheekbonescomparison.jpg|300px]]

I literally never noticed Astrotrain's grey helmet in this episode before, and I thought it could be another indicator to look for, but can't find any other instance of it. Adding in "[[A Prime Problem]]", which conventional wisdom has always held is animated by the same team as "[[Auto Berserk]]", that's five of the eight episodes. I've got more examining to do, but I really think I might be onto something with this - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 16:49, 12 January 2016 (EST)

:I think there were only 7 non-Toei, non-AKOM episodes from season 2, so you're even closer than you think. The onion in the ointment though is whether or not more than 7 episodes have traces of those clues. It could mean that Toei and the unknown studio did sections of the same episode (not unheard of) but that only makes things muddier. Keep us updated! --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 17:08, 12 January 2016 (EST)
::Just curious, but what's the criteria for picking "Prime Problem" out as a non-Toei episode? I recall The Guy We Had to Wipe From History had selected it, too. I don't recall it looking particularly unToei-like and the overall lack of season 2 characters to give the "cheekbone test" to makes it even harder. It also has little moments of nice animation, if I recall correctly, and the cited episodes like "Triple Takeover" and "Kremzeek" were all much more listless or just plain fugly. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 17:16, 12 January 2016 (EST)
:::It goes back to Zobovor. Both it and "Auto Berserk" have moments of pretty incomparable fluidity, and a general softness of line and warmth of colour about them. They both have scenes where a soft white "airbrush" effect is used to create a metallic effect that I don't know I've seen anywhere else in the show. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 17:21, 12 January 2016 (EST)
::::Gotcha. Now, I hate to even suggest this but... There's no guarantee that the 7 uncreditted episodes were ALL done by the same studio. There's a chance that multiple studios could have done them, hence why some seem to look better than others. OR, they could have ALL been done by the same studio like we've assumed, but different directors resulted in different looks and feels (like those season 1 episodes such as "Roll For It" that look super duper anime, while others don't look it at all). Working blind like this kinda sucks. I'm kind of wondering if we should change this article to something like "Unknown Generation 1 animation studio" rather than assume they were all done by the Filipino place (which may not have even been in the Philippines based on recent contention). --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 17:26, 12 January 2016 (EST)
:::::Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, to be honest. Fiddling around with this article to explain the sheer ambiguity of the whole thing would be a good move. If nothing else, I feel very confident about Inferno's alternate head being the biggest, most easily-spotted visual identifier. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]])
::::::OH-HO-HO!! I think I found another! In "Make Tracks," Tracks is coloured a bit differently to normal - in robot mode, he has black windows instead of clear ones, and his wheels are the same grey as his arms and legs, instead of the darker shade they normally are. Now, "Make Tracks" has the alternate Inferno head design, so I thought this alternate color model could be another hallmark to look out for, and after some searching, it appears in only one other episode - "The Secret of Omega Supreme", another famously shoddy one that was suspected of being non-Toei! That's six.... one more to suss out!! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 15:56, 22 January 2016 (EST)
:::::::It's always been a difficult exercise to try and identify the non-Toei, non-AKOM episodes of season 2, particularly since Toei clearly had multiple teams of animators working on the series. We know Toei did all of season 1 for instance, but there's a wild variation of animation styles and quality to be seen in those 16 episodes. Thus, the difference between a poorly animated Toei episode and one of the Filipino-animated episodes is not necessarily that distinct (such as the really shoddy Toei animation in "Divide and Conquer" or "The Ultimate Doom Part 1").
:::::::Two episodes not mentioned that I used to be fairly sure were animated by the Filipino studio are "[[War Dawn (episode)|War Dawn]]" and "[[Starscream's Brigade]]"; the style in both of them is just a little too off at times, particularly in the latter episode, even accounting for Toei's quality range. I agree that another suspect episode was "[[The Secret of Omega Supreme (episode)|The Secret of Omega Supreme]]", and as an added bonus, Astrotrain has his grey helmet in that episode too. His helmet is purple in "Starscream's Brigade", but they might have had access to the correct colour model by then.
:::::::That takes us to eight episodes, so the one I'd be tempted to knock off the list would be "A Prime Problem"; it's not up to standard efforts clearly from Toei, but other than the "airbrush" effect I wouldn't be quite as quick to identify it as one of the Filipino episodes, but instead a sub-par Toei effort.
:::::::From a real-world perspective, it probably makes sense that there would be a smattering of episodes from this studio produced roughly mid-to-late range in season 2, when Toei would also have been assigning animators to the Movie. - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 17:07, 22 January 2016 (EST)
::::::::I, too, considered "Starscream's Brigade," because it has that very soft, warm look, but I've discounted it because Grapple and Astrotrain (and following today's discovery, yep, Tracks) have the correct color models in it. We know from Akom's series-long goofs, it just wasn't likely that updated versions of these things got sent around. I DID miss that Astrotrain has the alternate helmet in "Secret," though!
::::::::Although it's certainly the case with "Secret" or "Kremzeek," I don't really think of "sub-par" as being a way of defining the non-Akom/Toei episodes. "A Prime Problem" and "Auto Berserk" have some really beautiful moments of fluid, high-frame rate stuff in them (the auto-scout weaving between the crytals, the missile shooting down the corridor into the bunker) that I don't know I can think of a really comparable example of from a Toei episodes. I spotted something similar in "Make Tracks" today, when Sideswipe tackles Ravage, that ties them together for me. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 17:20, 22 January 2016 (EST)
:::::::::For "sub-par", I'd refer to the actual character renderings rather than the fluidity of the animation itself, as the AKOM episodes are well-known for having some exceptionally fluid animated sequences. I still strongly suspect "Starscream's Brigade" was one of their episodes and that they simply had the colour models all updated by then. Personally, I wouldn't say it's necessarily a given that just because AKOM never received the correct colour models that the Filipino studio also never did, especially if they were a Toei subcontractor. Anyway, that's my take on it! - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 18:41, 22 January 2016 (EST)
:::::::::::I can't deny, I keep coming back to "Brigade," because it does have that soft-lined quality. But I'd still say "Prime Problem" or "Auto Berserk" have better character renderings than a low-end Toei episode! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 18:49, 22 January 2016 (EST)
I've been going through the suspect episodes again, and another colour-identifier to watch out for is Thrust; his shoulders and air intakes in robot mode are consistently red in every single shot he appears in both "Auto Berserk" and "Triple Takeover".

There's also a semi-recurrent error with Starscream's eyes occasionally being blue in "Auto Berserk", "Triple Takeover", and "Starscream's Brigade", but it's not quite as compelling an argument.

It's from 2012, but Zob [https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.toys.transformers/ro0LGSJfMD4/5M6uQVXqtqIJ| posted a list] on ATT (where else?) of his take on the non-Toei, non-AKOM episodes of season 2. Zob's list includes both "A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court" and "Hoist Goes Hollywood", which *really* look like Toei efforts.

Between us all, there's a consensus that "Make Tracks", "The Secret of Omega Supreme", "Kremzeek!" and "Triple Takeover" are almost certainly all non-Toei, non-AKOM episodes, and although Zob didn't include it in his list, observations on the episode make it pretty clear that "Auto Berserk" should also be included for a total 5 episodes identified.

Therefore, between all the lists, that would leave the remaining two episodes to probably be among "A Prime Problem", "War Dawn", or "Starscream's Brigade". Not much new here, but thought it worth noting! - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 17:56, 7 February 2016 (EST)
:OOh, good spot with Thrust's shoulders! I wonder what Zob was seeing "Hoist Goes Hollywood"? I can ''sort'' of see "Decepticon Raider" and "Brigade" we've talked about, but not that one. I think I'm going to put the five we've agreed upon up on the article, though. And also, move the article to a better name. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 14:22, 9 February 2016 (EST)
::Excellent work so far, as always! In the meantime, I've gone through the suspect episodes again, and I now agree with you on "A Prime Problem", and think the remaining episode is very probably "War Dawn". One of the smoking guns is the use (or lack thereof) of Toei-originated stock animation. That is, an episode featuring *two* Optimus Primes somehow doesn't use his stock transformation sequence at any point?

::Prime's stock transformation sequence does appear in "Starscream's Brigade", and they also tinker with it slightly as he gets in a whole line before actually transforming, so they clearly had access to the original cels. Every other episode that ever used the sequence was clearly a Toei-animated episode, so I think "Brigade" may just be one of their episodes assigned to a lesser team, like "Divide and Conquer" (which we know was a Toei episode).

::And of the episodes that didn't use Prime's transformation animation, this leaves "War Dawn" as the only other one that isn't in the same style as Toei's main animation teams. The aforementioned lack of season 2 characters makes this one really tough to 100% identify, but it's notable that the top of Slingshot's head is consistently white in every single shot, and we've seen before that the unknown studio were nothing if not consistent with their non-standard colours for newer characters. I know that particular error also cropped up in Toei episodes (most particularly "Aerial Assault"), but never for the entire episode, let alone one actually focussing on the Aerialbots. Yes, there's some Toei-looking shots in the episode, but these could have been retakes picked up by them later. - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 19:53, 9 February 2016 (EST)
:::Oh NICE, I would NOT have thought to look for Prime's stock footage! Actually, let's crunch the numbers on that out in the open here on the talk page for everyone playing along at home.
:::Okay, so, thanks to the Cybertron Chronicle's records of it, we know that the only season 2 episodes that DON'T have the stock footage in them are (taking its use in any two-parters as evidence that both parts were done by the same studio): "City of Steel," "The Autobot Run," "A Prime Problem," "The Core," "The Master Builders," "Auto Berserk," "Microbots," "Decepticon Raider," "Golden Lagoon," "God Gambit," "Make Tracks," "Quest for Survival," "Secret of Omega Supreme," "Kremzeek," "Sea Change," "Triple Takeover," "Prime Target," "Auto Bop," "Girl Who Loved Powerglide," "Hoist Goes Hollywood," "Aerial Assault," "War Dawn," "Trans Europe Express," "Cosmic Rust," and "BOT."
:::From that list, we can remove "City of Steel," "The Autobot Run," "The Core," "Auto Berserk," "Make Tracks," "Secret of Omega Supreme," "Kremzeek," and "Triple Takeover" as being the work of AKOM or ones we have definitely identified as "unknown studio" episodes based on the presence of outdated character models.
:::So then, going through the remaining episodes with that list of outdated character models as reference, we can eliminate the following episodes based on the fact the characters appear ''correctly'' in them: "The Master Builders" (Grapple, Inferno, and Tracks), "Microbots" (Smokescreen), "Golden Lagoon" (Thrust), "God Gambit" (Astrotrain), "Quest for Suvival" (Tracks, Smokescreen, and Grapple), "Sea Change" (Astrotrain), "Prime Target" (Astrotrain, Inferno, Grapple, and Tracks), "Auto Bop" (Tracks), "Girl Who Loved Powerglide" (Thrust), "Hoist Goes Hollywood" (Tracks, Astrotrain, and Thrust), "Trans Europe Express" (Tracks and Smokescreen), and "Cosmic Rust" (Astrotrain, Tracks, Smokescreen, and Inferno).
:::That leaves our only ''possible'' contenders as "A Prime Problem," "Decepticon Raider," "Aerial Assault," "War Dawn," and "BOT." "A Prime Problem" is visually quite distinct from all of these and I think we all agree it must be one of them. "BOT can be ruled out, as it features Ironhide using the generic Autobot laser pistol design, which only appears in Toei episodes. "Aerial Assault" is definitely ''way'' too good to be anything but a Toei episode, so that only leaves "Raider" and "War Dawn," but focusing on Slingshot's white skullcap, I checked out all his season 3 appearances, and he appears with it in ''every'' one of them animated by AKOM, which ''screams'' "outdated character model." Add that consistent use to the generally slipshod "War Dawn" (which also lacks the generic laser pistol, arming Ironhide and Ratchet with grey versions of Optimus's gun instead) and yes, I do believe we have our seven episodes!
:::Jon, what are you thoughts on my supposition that "Starscream's Ghost" and "Only Human" are also this studio's work? - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 06:57, 10 February 2016 (EST)
::::Aside from the general competence of animation being higher than an average AKOM episode, I've always had suspicions about both episodes, and before Toei's website put the numbers up I seriously thought "Only Human" could have been one of theirs. I remember Rik Bakke also saying he had a production schedule that claimed Toei animated "Starscream's Ghost", casting more suspicion on that episode, although we now know neither episode is from Toei, as the numbers literally don't add up.

::::Based on further observations, "Starscream's Ghost" and "Only Human" do look to be from the same animators as each other. I concentrated on Rodimus as he's one of the few characters prominently seen in both episodes. His spoiler is invariably depicted as being mostly horizontal rather than angled/curved (when seen from the front) in AKOM or Toei episodes. The tyres on his upper arms also seem to be coloured red quite often (like in the Toei episodes), but with the hub cap still rendered white (like the AKOM episodes). Most tellingly, his rifle is coloured the same way between both episodes, whereas otherwise it's either black (Toei) or red (AKOM).

::::One quirk both episodes share with clear AKOM episodes is the use of outdated colour schemes, as with Galvatron's pink (rather than purple "underpants". They also share with AKOM the colouring of the inside of the season 3 characters' mouths. Plus, the centre of the square just below Perceptor's chest is coloured red in AKOM episodes, as well as in "Starscream's Ghost" (it's only one shot, but it's there) and "Only Human". This is particularly notable, as in "The Secret of Omega Supreme", he has his correct colour scheme seen in Toei productions, with the square being coloured completely white. Starscream's colourful back, with the orange back cowling and blue engines, isn't seen in any other episode.

::::Another observation from the same episode is that Galvatron transforms twice, and each time this occurs, his particle cannon correctly detaches itself from his arm and joins back with him once he's transformed. AKOM really liked to "cheat" this, with the cannon being either being "swallowed up" in his transformation or simply falling out of shot, never seen to be reattaching itself. Only rarely was this depicted correctly outside of a Toei episode (although amazingly, one example can be seen in "Carnage in C-Minor").

::::Given the prominent and consistent use of outdated character designs and generally much higher-quality animation, I think it makes for a compelling argument that these two were not in fact animated by AKOM. If not for their use of blatantly outdated models, the same sort of confusion that we've seen with the seven season 2 episodes might have also applied to these two when comparing to Toei's efforts. Whether it was actually the same studio as the unknown one that worked on season 2 may still be up for debate however (why did they suddenly start using AKOM's colours for Perceptor?). But one of the biggest supporting factors, aside from animation quality, is probably their propensity for adding lips to the characters, like in their last pre-Movie episode, "War Dawn".

::::Between the shared colour schemes with AKOM, and AKOM's own episode-long use of Cyclonus's alternate character model in "The Rebirth Part 2", it's easy to see why these two episodes were lumped in with AKOM's work for years.

::::And on that note, it makes it all the more compelling an argument that maybe "Carnage in C-Minor" might not have been animated by AKOM after all either. AKOM tended to be consistent with their incorrect colour models, so it doesn't entirely make sense that for this one episode they suddenly started correctly colouring the inside of all the season 3 characters' mouths grey in every shot. AKOM look to have only stopped colouring the characters' mouths in the following season's "The Rebirth".

::::From a numbers point-of-view, it might make some sense that for season 3, Toei and AKOM both got 13 episode (i.e. a season's worth) orders, with the remaining episodes divided up into another three unknown studios. AKOM's work was bad, but there was a limit to how bad it got. "Carnage in C-Minor" is way underneath even AKOM's worst work.

::::Oh, and as a final observation I noticed two Thrusts show up with his alternate colour scheme in "Thief in the Night", if that's worth noting! - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 20:02, 12 February 2016 (EST)
:::::I find the thing I look for in particular on Rodimus is the extra trapezoid on his crotch, which isn't part of his "early" animation model, and so comes and goes from AKOM episodes depending what a particular scene is animated using. They ''always'' use the early ''colors'', though, like Galvatron (whose early model isn't very different and really quite tricky to spot), so it's never colored in, and that's made me miss it more than once when it's there. The curved tips to his shoudlers are probably a better "tell." His gun is that odd color scheme in some parts of FFoD too, as I recall.
:::::(Actually, speaking of Galvatron's early model, I ''think'' he might spend ''all'' of "Starscream's Ghost" in it.)
:::::The Perceptor thing might not be ''that'' unusual - there's at least one scene in "Triple Takeover" where Astrotrain has his purple helmet, and another in "Secret of Omega" too. If this is only one scene in "Starscream's Ghost," I ''feeeeel'' like it's maybe negligible for our purposes.
:::::It's sounding like it might be a good idea to move this page to "Unknown Generation 1 animation studio'''s'''", so we can detail all of this on it. That "thirteen episode" theory makes an ''aaaaawful'' lot of sense...
:::::I also spotted the red Thrusts after you pointed them out in the other episodes, and I went looking to see if AKOM did them too! AKOM ''also'' used grey-helmet Astrotrain consistently, I discovered! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 20:40, 12 February 2016 (EST)
===A sudden twist!===
But wait! Could it be! I've just discovered that ''Hoist'' also has an early color model! In Toei episodes, the hinge in the centre of his chest is solid orange, and his tyres are white on the circular side, and black on the edge. On his outdate model, only the outermost points of his chest hinge are orange, with the central piece being green (which is actually-toy accurate), and his tyres are completely white (which is not). Like the others, this model appears in the original advert for the toy... in "Auto Berserk"... in "Kremzeek!"... '''aaaand'''... in "Decepticon Raider"!!!! Coooooould just be we've made the wrong call on "War Dawn" - the only potential monkey wrench is that for the three shots of "Kremzeek!" he appears in, Hoist is in his outdated model for two of them, but his finalized model for one, but then, that happens with Astrotrain in other episodes too. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 17:17, 16 February 2016 (EST)
:I am consistently impressed and intimidated by your thoroughness to this endeavor. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 17:21, 16 February 2016 (EST)
::As am I. Say, it sounds like most of the 2nd year Autobot Cars have alternate models...have you tried checking [[Skids (G1)|Skids]]'s appearance in [[Triple Takeover]] for differences with his other appearance in [[Quest for Survival]]? Perhaps he had different models as well, aseeing as how he's grouped with them (sort of). Just a thought. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep|talk]]) 18:07, 16 February 2016 (EST)
:::I haven't mentioned it as we're already certain about "Triple Takeover," but he does, actually! His Toei color model is a bit piecemeal anyway, as it colors parts that ought to be the same shade of blue in a mixture of dark and pale blues. In "TT," his robot mode appearances are all tiny figures in the distance, but his windows are light instead of dark, and the top of his chest is consistently the lighter blue, compared to the darker blue it was in "Quest."
:::Red Alert also has an alternate model, but it's barely worth noting, as "Auto Berserk" is on the only "unknown studio" episode he appears in, and the only difference is that they colour him bright white instead of off-white. But that ''does'' mean that all the '85 cars have early models; I suspect these were drawn up for the commercial that starred all of them (except Skids), and were later refined. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 19:00, 16 February 2016 (EST)
::::Yes, another good catch on Hoist! The 1985 Autobot Cars commercial that his, and the other alternate models appear in, is definitely the key. I haven't seen the clearer copy that's on Youtube before now, but taking a closer look, the clear airbrushed look on Optimus Prime does look atypical for Toei's work. I wonder if the other studio animated this ad?
::::There are elements of "Raider" that do still look like Toei work, such as the faces of the human cast in multiple shots. Could this be circumstantial evidence that the other studio may have been a Japanese one? Plus the inclusion of an in-joke referencing Dungeons & Dragons (26 of its 27 episodes animated by Toei) is another element that originally threw the scent off. "Hank" may have been included in the original storyboards by a Marvel staffer, or perhaps by the same studio who did the one non-Toei D&D episode (I don't know which one it is, but it's a first season episode according to the old Toei website).
::::If Hoist's other model literally appears in no other episode that we've identified as being a Toei episode, then "Raider" *has* to be included in the list of non-Toei ones. "War Dawn" is the obvious suspect to remove, but Slingshot's persistently white skullcap is still a noteworthy anomaly. If we're agreed it's a Toei episode, then it may very well have been done by the same low-rent team that did "Starscream's Brigade".
::::With all the animation and production memorabilia collectors out there, it would be nice if *someone* had documentation that proved *something* - most crucially, the names of the other studios! - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 19:04, 17 February 2016 (EST)
:::::My only qualm with the Unknown Studio being Japanese in origin is all the bad Japanese text seen in "Kremzeek!" There's the possibility that the Unknown Studio farmed those backgrounds out to one of the Korean sub studios like Dai Won that did in-betweening and photography work, but that's getting so nitty-gritty we'd never be able to figure it out. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 10:15, 18 February 2016 (EST)
:::::Oh YEAH, look at that! I didn't look closely at Prime before but yeah, there's the airbrushing from "Auto Berserk" and "A Prime Problem!" You know, it makes an extra little touch of sense that "A Prime Problem" would be the first episode to be done by this studio, if they did this commercial, being that it's the first one to feature any new 1985 product - in the script from the Ron Friedman auction, there are even deleted scenes that show it was supposed to introduce Inferno and Ramjet as well.
:::::Y'know, I took a quick look, and Slingshot's even got his white skullcap in "Call of the Primitives." Added to the times it popped up in Toei episodes, if this was an early model (and it probably was since AKOM used it all the time), it seems like it must have made it pretty late in there. Like maybe his full-body model had the white head and his close-up head turnaround had the orange - two models that would have co-existed at Toei, and so the studio would have had them both at the same time and gone back and forth between them, but the head turnaround wouldn't likely have made it out to AKOM. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 12:05, 18 February 2016 (EST)

AND HERE'S ANOTHER!! Thinking about "Decepticon Raider" and Warpath, I remembered the inconsistency we have noted on his article about what his face did when he talked, and thought there could be something to check there. So, yes, for my sins, I have just checked... sigh... every single piece of season 2 Warpath dialogue outside of "Raider"... and they are ALL in Toei episodes, and ALL* of the episodes in which his face is shown (because he delivers a LOT of his dialogue in tank mode, and from off-screen), he has the glowing blue slats. It's only in "Raider" that his mouthplate jiggles (and taking a second look, it actually only does ''that'' in one or two scenes, not moving otherwise) which seems to me to be more evidence it's done by the Unknown Studio.

(*Mitigating circumstances for "Quest for Survival," in which Warpath does not have the slats, but the only line he speaks while his face is on-screen in the episode is the partial finishing-off of a sentence begun from off-screen, which I think is enough to mitigate them not doing the effect. His plate certainly doesn't jiggle either.) - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:48, 18 February 2016 (EST)

==That's some good work, Lou==

I didn't follow half of your sleuthing, but I believe it, so good job Chris and Jon. With the 7 episodes more or less pinpointed, do you want to update the Season 2 info boxes to state the unknown studio definitively and not just "Toei (maybe)"? --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 12:53, 18 February 2016 (EST)
::Hey, thanks, Chief! I feel pretty good about going ahead and doing that. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:48, 18 February 2016 (EST)

== Carnage in C-Minor ==

Feeling like I'm on a roll, I decided to go back to Jon's suggestion that "Carnage in C-Minor" might not have been an AKOM episode, but the work of another unknown studio, since it's ''so'' bad, and lacks AKOM's characteristic interior-mouth coloring. I don't know that I've found anything useful yet - Soundwave's still in the wrong color scheme, Devastator still uses his oudated color model, like normal AKOM episodes, but I thought Broadside might be one to look at, since his outdated model extends to his alternate forms, rather than just his robot mode. "Carnage" was his first robot mode appearance, but when AKOM animated him again in "Grimlock's New Brain," they used his finalized model, and if we've learned anything from this endeavour, it's that studios that weren't Toei didn't get updated materials. So here's what I found: in "The Killing Jar," Broadside appears only in jet mode, but it's the jet mode from his finalized model. In "Thief in the Night," he appears only in carrier mode; in his first scene, it's a conglomerate of both his early and finished models - the hull of his early model, but the communications tower of his finished model (they have different dishes) - but in his second, transporting the Autobots, it's all the old model. And in "Carnage," both his robot and jet are from the early model... but the carrier is from the ''finished'' model. So... no, I don't know what to make of that at all. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 05:42, 20 February 2016 (EST)

==Companies mentioned on animenewsnetwork.com==

Has anyone looked into the companies listed as having worked, uncredited, in the animation for the Transformers TV series according to animenewsnetwork.com ? According to them, Anime R, Ashi Productions, Kaname Production, Nakamura Production, and TMS Entertainment (Tokyo Movie Shinsha) all did so.
:Firstly, ANN isn't always an accurate source of information thanks to it being user-contributed like this wiki. So information isn't always accurate to a fault. Second, most of those companies, save Ashi, are already on the main page listed as support studios. While we can't rule out anything based on what little information we actually have on the studios to begin with, I'd highly doubt they'd be hired by anyone else but Toei to work on the series. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 20:04, 10 December 2018 (EST)

== Ashi Productions ==

The page for "[[Call of the Primitives]]" says based on the staff and timing, the episode was likely animated by this company, [[Ashi Productions]]? They don't seem to be based in the Philippines, but as a Toei subcontractor would they be a contender for this studio? - [[User:TFfan1|TFfan1]], March 29 2020, 11:09 PST
:The animation style of "Call of the Primitives" is completely different from any of the episodes we've attributed to this studio, so unlikely. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 14:14, 29 March 2020 (EDT)

== Sei Young Animation Co ==

A possibility worth exploring is Korean company Sei Young Animation Co. Marvel used them for 63 episodes of Defenders Of The Earth in 1985 and 1986. They had a very Toei-esque style, having collaborated with them at various points since 1978. It would make sense if the purpose of sending 10 episodes to other studios in season 2, apart from the immediate benefit of taking pressure off Toei, was a test run before commissioning these studios full-time on other shows (AKOM would gradually become Marvel's primary animator). [[User:Greebtron|Greebtron]] ([[User talk:Greebtron|talk]]) 20:18, 21 April 2020 (EDT)
: I think you might be on to something here, at least with a few of the uglier looking episodes like "Kremzeek". It reminds me a bit of the feel and quality seen in some Toei-associated episodes of the time like "Child's Play" or "The Gambler". Heck, it actually wouldn't surprise me if Sei Young actually did those episodes too (under contract of Toei and not Marvel directly, of course). But that's just my thoughts on the matter, anyway. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 19:43, 20 July 2020 (EDT)

== (Season 3) Toei's 13th episode? ==

So I was skimming through the Season 3 episode articles because this was bothering me, but since "Surprise Party" was recently found out to be a Sei Young episode, that leaves Toei with only twelve confirmed Season 3 episodes, even though their resume says they did thirteen.

So my theories are:

1. Either "Surprise Party" was a Toei episode that Sei Young worked on (which would be expected giving their working relationship) and Sei Young simply sent Marvel the finished episode in Toei's place (I don't know the ins-and-outs of outsourcing animation but I think it's a possibility), leaving "Call of the Primitives" the weird outlier.

OR

2. "Surprise Party" was directly assigned to Sei Young, and "Call of the Primitives" was assigned to Toei, and Toei decided to subcontract the work to another studio (possibly Ashi Productions, going by the trivia note on the episode page). We know AKOM did the same thing with "Starscream's Ghost" and "Only Human", so it's not without precedent.

I could just be rambling nonsense, and the edit to the "Surprise" article was very recent, but I felt this needed to be brought up. --[[User:TheAmazingPoncho|TheAmazingPoncho]] ([[User talk:TheAmazingPoncho|talk]]) 21:33, 28 July 2020 (EDT)

== A possibility, perhaps? ==

So seeing how we finally found out that "Call' was a Toei episode farmed to another company ([[Studio Look]]), it got me wondering about Ashi Pro's involvement in the series regarding their work on the show and I found [https://w.atwiki.jp/sakuga/?cmd=word&word=%E3%83%88%E3%83%A9%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B9%E3%83%95%E3%82%A9%E3%83%BC%E3%83%9E%E3%83%BC&type=&pageid=309 this]. It mentions both Habara's involvement on "Heavy Metal War" and Ashi's overall work on the show to his best recollection. The other episodes featured are labeled as "3, 8, 13, 22 and 32". Problem number 1 is that it's difficult as to what order the list is referring to as the English and Japanese broadcast airings are different to both.

Going by the English order, the episodes consist of "More Than Meets the Eye, Part 3", "S.O.S. Dinobots", "The Ultimate Doom, Part 3", "The Imobilizer" and "The Master Builders". Whereas in Japanese, while the first episode is identical, the other ones in that order consists of "War of the Dinobots", "Traitor", "A Prime Problem" and "The God Gambit". Problem no. 2 with that is with the Japanese order, which just straight on Toei or Korean-contracted-under-Toei titles (barring "Prime Problem", which we know is the work of the still-unidentified mystery studio), so I assume the page meant the original English order, which by extension marks "Roll For It" as a possible Ashi episode due to the similarities between it and "S.O.S." But again, that order is also pretty suspect as neither "Imobilizer" or "Master Builders" look anything like an Ashi-contracted episode and more like one of the Toei-supervised Korean episodes of Season 2.

Still, thought this was interesting all things considered. Any thoughts? [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 17:14, 12 September 2020 (EDT)
:What if you exclude the More Than Meets the Eye miniseries from the enumeration? It was produced separately, after all. What are episodes 3, 8, 13, 22, and 32 then? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 19:00, 12 September 2020 (EDT)
:And could it only be referring to Season 2? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 19:03, 12 September 2020 (EDT)
::Now that's the million dollar question I want to know the answer to, as the page I linked to considers it and the rest of Season 1 as one entity and not two separately produced batches. Not to mention this very wiki doesn't seem to discern the difference either and lumps the pilot in with the rest of the series, so I'm mostly basing my speculations towards that. Also, I think the count is for both, Seasons 1 and 2 if we take that into consideration. Only thing to do now is either ask Habara for clarification or wait until production sheets for the first two seasons surface before making better judgement.[[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 11:43, 14 September 2020 (EDT)
:::Seasons 1 and 2 use the same format of production codes, but the pilot is separate. The pilot is codes 4023, 4024, and 4025. Season 1 proper runs from 700-01 to 700-13 and Season 2 runs from 700-16 to 700-64. You have to go to the individual episode pages to get these, though. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 11:49, 14 September 2020 (EDT)
::::3 = [[Divide and Conquer]], 8 = [[The Ultimate Doom, Part 1]], 13 = [[Heavy Metal War]], 22 = [[The Autobot Run]], and 32 = [[Auto Berserk]], based on production codes.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 10:56, 21 September 2020 (EDT)
:::::And that makes no sense we we already know The Autobot Run is very obviously AKOM, which again brings up the question of what the source I found is exactly meaning with its episode order. There's also the fact that the page seem to explicitly mention Heavy Metal War's order in both versions of the series (10 in Japanese, 16 in the original US). So I don't really know what to think.[[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 14:29, 26 September 2020 (EDT)

== Asking Dery ==

This might be opening a ''terrible'' idea (I've read his talk page), but do you think if anyone could get a hold of Floro Dery he could shed some light on this? He was a design supervisor and ''might'' have some info? I also have no idea if he's lived in the Philippines for all this time but if he was in the animation scene around then he might have a better idea of what studios were operating at the time that could've been the illusive studio. [[User:TransFormersfan1|TransFormersfan1]] ([[User talk:TransFormersfan1|talk]]) 13:18, 2 December 2020 (EST)

== Another Possibility ==

Been sitting on this for a while now, but a thought crossed my mind fairly recently. With the reveal that Sei Young was the one responsible (or at least credited for) Surprise Party, it got me to thinking- What if one or more of the episodes attributed to this unknown studio are actually Sei Young's work? Comparing their work on Surprise Party or even Season 2 episodes credited to Toei like Child's Play or The Master Builders to say, Kremzeek or Triple Takeover, they look pretty similar. Call me crazy, but I certainly feel I might have stumbled onto something. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 21:25, 23 January 2021 (EST)

== A Possible Suggestion ==

I know this is probably a longshot, but has anyone actually asked any of the show's animators on the Japanese side of things? Not many of the US-based crew seem willing to answer (presuming they even have the materials to begin with), but I feel like if anyone could get in touch with an animator from the Japan side of the coin. We could hopefully get a better idea as to who did what episode. The problem though, from what I see is two-fold. The first is that I wouldn't know which among us would even know enough Japanese to properly ask the question in the first place. The second is whether or not said animators would even remember working on the show to begin with (assuming they did in the first place). Especially since for most of them it'd be among their first credits, and animators who were active during the 1980s usually seem to ignore that period where Japan got most of America's animation outside of some exceptions. Either way though, I think it'd be worth an attempt if nothing more. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 01:16, 15 July 2022 (EDT)

==Shin Won?==

I tweeted to the Wiki account and [[User:Chris_McFeely|Chris McFeely]] about this last year and promptly forgot all about it, but it's a possible lead. The [https://web.archive.org/web/20211201064759/https://digilander.libero.it/dottor_vaffa/ Megna Co-Productions database] lists the following studios as having worked on Transformers: Toei, Sei Young, Dai Won, Shin Won, Sam Young and Akom. Most of those are accounted for here, except Shin Won, so I did some digging.

According to the [https://www.kmdb.or.kr/db/per/00003442 Korean Movie Database] they were known as "Educational Fairy Tale" (or just Gyoyuk, which I guess is Korean for educational fairy tale - I'm using Google Translate for most of this) until 1986, when they became Shin Won and then "Production Grimi" in the late 90s. They're now defunct, it seems. Their [https://web.archive.org/web/20030215231041fw_/http://www.grimi.co.kr/index02.html official website circa 2003] (thanks to the Wayback Machine) has them claiming credit for work on various anime, Transformers, GI Joe, Jem, Real Ghostbusters, Dennis and, crucially, Teddy Ruxpin. Checking back on Megna, the Shin Won is the ''only'' studio attributed to Teddy Ruxpin. The [https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/company.php?id=1361 Anime News Network] profile for them has them credited on different shows with everything from "colour co-ordination check" to in-betweening to finish animation to paint to just "animation". So while it's entirely possible their contribution to Transformers was out-source assistance work to Toei or Akom, like Dai Won and Sam Young, that variety of contributions and Teddy Ruxpin suggests they're capable of producing entire episodes independently and so could be the mystery studio.

There are potential issues with this of course. First is that Wikipedia credits Teddy Ruxpin to Atkinson Film-Arts (along with DiC), who I don't know enough about to know whether they animated in-house or out-sourced the main work uncredited. Megna doesn't mention Atkinson at all for Teddy Ruxpin. Second is that Megna doesn't cite its sources, although Shin Won's own website is presumably the source in this case. Would they have reason to lie? Seems unlikely, but can't be ruled out, I guess. I suppose the acid test would be watching some Teddy Ruxpin. [[User:Danja|Danja]] ([[User talk:Danja|talk]]) 07:02, 26 January 2023 (EST)

:It's possible, That database is weird when it comes to listing outsourcing studios. And given how little we know about the studios in question (acid testing is how I was able to deduce some of the efforts of Anime R, Nakamura Pro, and Studio Look for Toei's episodes since two of them --R and Look-- lack websites and the third --Nakamura Pro-- ''has'' a website, but lacks a proper resume thanks to all the work they've done), it's possible we might have Shin Won doing an episode or two on their own. And if so, I can see them handling "Krmezeek", "Triple Takeover" and "The Secret of Omega Supreme" at least, leaving "Make Tracks", "A Prime Problem" and "Auto-Berserk" the remaining outliers if that is the case.

:As far as Teddy Ruxpin is concerned, Atkinson handled most of the pre-production services. The animation, as per usual with DiC, went to Asian studios uncredited (no idea if this tied into union rules being exploited like with Marvel, or DiC just being dicks), so Shin Won being involved might be something to look into so we can try and acid wash some of their episodes. Again, it bites not having the proper documentation for these things.[[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 05:18, 4 February 2023 (EST)

UPDTATE (since I forgot this thought initially): Is it possible that Shin Won also worked on some of the uglier-looking Toei episodes as well? I'm looking over some of the more infamous ones like "Child's Play" and "Starscream's Brigade" (credited to both Nakamura Pro and Sei Young alongside Toei currently; though I have my doubts about the Korean studio's involvement going over it), and it certainly feels like "Kremzeek" and "Triple Takeover" both have similar faults as the other episodes I just mentioned. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 13:25, 14 February 2023 (EST)

==I'm on a mission to identify all AKOM eps and it's quite a chore (update below)==

Longtime G1 fan, 1st time caller here. I can't say much now, because I have zero free time, but I'm just starting a couple of huge projects relating to a library of G1 episodes I'm editing for my personal collection, and it would likely be of interest to the community here. One project is heavy research on who did what animation. This started because I've been away from the fandom for decades, and noticed recently a hell of a lot of errors in information regarding the animation studios involved. This has been going on since I came across Hasbro Pulse TF eps on youtube several months ago, and you will see tons of comments left by me saying basically those 3 episodes (you know the ones) were absolutely NOT by AKOM, and a bunch of other mistaken assumptions came out of that mistaken assumption. It's amazing that no one seemed to make the connection to other, earlier Marvel shows. Remember "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends"? Since TF first aired, I immediately recognized animation similar to that show. Three eps are by Toei, but for all the rest, the credits say "Produced in association with MiHahn, Inc." They were a South Korean outfit, which according to scant info also outsourced to other studios. Whether any of those are based in the Phillipines, I don't know, but as far as I'm concerned, I go with "suspected to be by MiHahn". I'm maintaining a spreadsheet, and I will take everything else written here into consideration. When I'm finished identifying all AKOM eps to the best of my ability to detect these various animation techniques, I will let folks know. [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 20:27, 6 April 2023 (EDT)

:Anything helps, I'm getting really tired of trying to identify episodes by eye to the point I don't know how many I have accurate and how many I'm completely wrong about (the downside to acid testing is that there are plenty of episodes with similar styles). Both for Toei and AKOM alike. This is why I wish we had full production materials, if they still exist, regarding who did what, so can't wait for that spreadsheet. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 20:31, 8 April 2023 (EDT)

::Agreed with everything you say, but I haven't given up identifying by looking just yet. I now have other asks and thoughts available, '''so here's my update'''. I haven't completely ruled out AKOM possibly subcontracting whoever worked on what I call the three Season 2 "PSE-style" eps (for "Pan Sang East"). It's certainly not in-house. If that's what's happened, then I currently believe the ten non-Toei eps from Season 2 are all AKOM. I left a discussion note in "Only Human", and I'm writing one now for "Triple Takeover". I'm not ready to share the spreadsheet, but all of my thoughts and best guesses so far are now at my user page, and anyone can feel free to discuss there; I promise to consider everything. [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2023 (EDT)

::One more thing, because it occurred to me after being at the chat and after more research: I've said that Sam Young in Season 3 was such trash there's no point in comparing with anything else, but I've just run all the way thru the "Jem" series, and Sam Young's work seems to be quite a bit better, and that makes for a good reminder that '''budget''' may play as much of a role as any studio. We say that "Brigade" looks particularly nasty, so it couldn't be Sei Young, but I do see enough similarities that I don't disbelieve Sei Young involvement; it could be a matter of a lower budget making things worse and smushing the hell out of Powerglide's face, at least in this case. Some Sei Young stuff in "Defenders of the Earth" can get hella janky too at times. By the same token, Sam Young may have some arguably decent work in the "Jem" series, and then we get G1 "Carnage". I'm actually jealous of how many times Toei's good teams help the ladies out while us "lousy Autobot lovers" get shipped to Korea. [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2023 (EDT)

User:JoseBxR

2023-05-07T07:44:18Z

JoseBxR: /* Challenges */

User:JoseBxR

2023-05-07T04:53:58Z

JoseBxR: /* Other Shows */

User:JoseBxR

2023-05-07T03:05:22Z

JoseBxR: /* Other Shows */

User:JoseBxR

2023-05-07T01:46:13Z

JoseBxR: /* Other Shows */

Talk:Triple Takeover

2023-05-06T22:42:13Z

JoseBxR:

==Coaching a Scrimmage==

The coach appearing to switch sides during the "game" that Blitzwing interrupts may not be a continuity error. Since there were no spectators evident in the stadium, it was probably just a practice scrimmage. At least, that's how I always interpreted it, going back to when it first aired in '85! [[User:Shegomaniac|Shegomaniac]] 23:59, 1 December 2009 (EST)

== Thrust error ==

Thrust is shown during Thundercracker's "Leader?! How do you figure that?" line.

I wouldn't say it's an animation error, as you say. But of course, I haven't watched the episode. [[Special:Contributions/69.19.14.20|69.19.14.20]] 17:59, 5 January 2012 (EST)

== Pretty certain this is AKOM ==

Huge update in my research on who did what, all within my user page, and I encourage anyone with good info to discuss. This is another of my preliminary findings (along with "Only Human"). I always suspected comparing techniques in other eps and shows that this is an AKOM work, but during a comment thread on YouTube for "Rebirth Part 3" I happened to notice a very unique special effect used on the shot of Optimus Prime while he says to Spike, "You... MUST COME!" (don't laugh). VFX can certainly be done by outside studios, but this is quite an un-Japanese visual, and you know which other episode has it? "Triple Takeover"! You see it when that "dumbass" Prime hits Meg and Screamer "with them lights"! [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 18:42, 6 May 2023 (EDT)

Talk:Unknown Generation 1 animation studios

2023-05-06T22:20:08Z

JoseBxR: /* I'm almost done identifying all AKOM eps */

I did wonder about [http://www.philippinebusiness.com.ph/archives/magazine/vol9-2002/9-3/industry_p2.htm this news item] which [[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] linked to on the [[Talk:Toei Animation|Talk:Toei]] page, which seems to suggest that it was Toei's Filipino branch. But that were only set up in 1986, unless they're wrong about the date... --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:48, 7 July 2009 (EDT)
::Yeah, I forgot about that little nugget. I added it to the article, though since the dates don't match up, we can't be certain, I suppose. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 18:37, 7 July 2009 (EDT)

The current reference link for Burbank is a 404. --[[User:Flicky1991|flicky]][[User talk:Flicky1991|1991]] 14:38, 10 February 2016 (EST)

== Maybe it was Burbank Animation? ==

Maybe this studio was Burbank Animation? The studio was a Philippine division of Burbank Films Australia, based out of Makati, and multiple people who worked there mentioned several Marvel shows on their resume, including My Little Pony, Jem and Defenders of the Earth.--[[Special:Contributions/71.142.249.86|71.142.249.86]] 01:13, 4 November 2009 (EST)
:Indeed! And it was set up in 1983, so it'd fit the time period. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 02:04, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::[http://www.burbankanimation.com/ Burbank's official website] doesn't list any of their farmed-out work for other studios, unfortunately. IMDB doesn't even list their work prior to 1989. Then again, that site just seems to be focused on their Australian division with no mention of their Filipino joint. [http://asianjournal.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/filipinos-on-top-of-hollywood-animation/ This article] says the Filipino studio was founded in 1983, but I can't find anything listing the shows they've worked on. Any way we can get a link to interviews with some of those Burbank employees who said they worked on Marvel/Sunbow productions? --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 08:55, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::: I found a "Boy Sibulo Aureliano" who lists Transformers in his resume, and he wa an animator for Burbank Animations from '83 to '88. I've sent him an email. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 14:08, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::::Awesome. I know only, like, 4 people are going to end up caring, but if we manage to solve this mystery I think it'll be really, really cool. After that, we'll just have to find a way to figure out what 7 episodes from season 2 they animated. That might actually be even ''harder'' to figure out. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 14:10, 4 November 2009 (EST)
:::::Stuff like this is why the wiki exists. First we get more information on the horribly awesome (or awesomely horrible) Headmasters dub, and now the possibility of this. Fall's shaping up to be grand here. --[[User:Bluestreak7|Bluestreak7]] 14:18, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::::::Stuff like this is only going to help the wiki. (And hurt the server.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:29, 4 November 2009 (EST)
::If we can get some more names from people working for Burbank's Filipino division during hte 80s, we might be able to find their online resumes and hit paydirt. I've found [http://www.cristofani.com/resume.html a couple] [http://www.linkedin.com/in/jocelynsy so far], though none of the ones I've found list Transformers under the shows they worked on. We might be able to get lucky, though. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 14:34, 4 November 2009 (EST)
:::Keep trying. Figuring this out = this site gets a little more famous = this site gets a little more hits = this site climbs up in search engine rankings = the Squid caching system dies. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:37, 4 November 2009 (EST)
:I think Burbank is probably the most likely choice. I've been rooting around on Google and found [http://dirp3.pids.gov.ph/ris/taps/tapspp0102.pdf this PDF document] which says that the first animation company to open in the Philippines was Burbank in 83, followed by a company called Optifex and then Fil-Cartoon over the next couple of years. From various CVs and other sites I've found, Optifex was exclusively doing out-sourced work for Hanna-Barbera until 88, when Hanna-Barbera opened Fil-Cartoon as a wholly owned subsidiary and Optifex was left doing domestic animation before rebranding. So that only really leaves Burbank, who multiple people list as having worked on Jem, MLP and DotE on their CVs. Of course the other possibility is that Paul Davids was mistaken in saying that any of Transformers was sent to the Philippines and confused it with these other shows out-sourcing there. [[User:Danja|Danja]] 06:56, 14 July 2011 (EDT)
Ok, '''definitely not Burbank'''. I sent a Facebook message to Jess Espanola, currently an assistant director on the Simpsons and formerly an animator at Burbank at the time the episodes were animated and he actually replying, saying "We didn't do any Transformer shows at Burbank. Maybe Toei Animation studio did it because Toei had a subsidiary studio ijn the Philippines". [[User:Danja|Danja]] 04:54, 15 September 2011 (EDT)
:Quite out of the blue I got another Facebook message from Jess Espanola. He was in the Philippines last month and while seeing friends at Toei's Philippines branch asked about Transformers production (which is pretty awesome of him). The manager, Nestor Palabrica, confirmed that Toei Philippines did Transformers animation in '86 (so season three). Is this the first confirmation of Toei's Philippines branch working on G1? It might explain Davids' comments/memories. [[User:Danja|Danja]] 08:42, 20 June 2012 (EDT)
::Hey, uh, should this Toei stuff not be on the page? It seems to be the biggest lead we have... --[[User:Flicky1991|flicky]][[User talk:Flicky1991|1991]] 14:21, 30 June 2013 (EDT)
:::I think this has to be another mistaken recollection. The website says it was established in ''November'' 1986 - ''well'' after all of season 3 would have been produced. Literally the only thing it could refer to would be "The Return of Optimus Prime," which would mean its work is indistinguishable from Toei proper. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 19:08, 10 February 2016 (EST)
::::The original article that credited Toei's Philippine branch with working on Transformers also mentioned G.I. Joe (presumably only the Marvel/Sunbow version), the final episodes of which were broadcast in November 1986, which really messes things up! I checked the credits to the Joe movie, the only production released after this date, and there're no names or credits with an obvious Philippine connection, but there are a boatload of Japanese staff names credited under Toei. Therefore my suspicion is that the founding date of the studio genuinely might be off, and it's possible that they could actually have done some Transformers episodes prior to "The Return of Optimus Prime".

::::Being a Toei branch, I would expect them to have copies of the correct character models. Plus, Toei's old website indicated they were responsible for the animation for all 95 episodes of the original Joe series. Therefore, if the Philippine branch actually animated any of those Joe episodes, as is suggested in that article, Toei still counted it as their work. The same would have to apply to Transformers. I don't necessarily think any of the thirteen season 3 episodes most closely identified with Toei were done in the Philippines, as they generally have a higher standard of animation than many of Toei's season 2 episodes. An example of a very likely candidate for a prior episode that might have been animated by them would be "Starscream's Ghost".

::::Another possibility to muddy the waters further is that the "Transformers" credited to Toei's Philippine branch could actually have been episodes some of the later three Japanese-exclusive series. That article mentioned G.I. Joe, but also undisputed anime series Dragon Ball Z and Sailor Moon. There's a fair number of artistic variations to be found in the G1 anime episodes, particularly in Masterforce, where there are a few episodes that aren't *quite* up to scratch when it comes to character renditions.

::::Whoever the mysterious third studio was, I don't think it was Toei's Philippine branch. - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 20:06, 12 February 2016 (EST)

== [[Hasbro Q&A]] ==

Anyone tried the [[Hasbro Q&A]] yet? Maybe that ''might'' help. If no-one has, can somebody do that in the next Q&A? [[User:Item42|Item42]] 10:44, 11 June 2010 (EDT)
:No one has yet. Would Hasbro even have that information? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:59, 11 June 2010 (EDT)
:Maybe they don't.But it would be helpful if they can tell us pretty much ''anything'' whatsoever. That's better than what we have now. [[User:Item42|Item42]] 01:51, 12 June 2010 (EDT)

==Identification criteria?==

I just noticed that some while back, a user identified which episodes from season 2 were done by the Filipino studio. For the record, what visual criteria was used to identify those episodes, so I can make a note of it in the article? --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 12:10, 11 July 2013 (EDT)

==Is there any proof at all about Philippine animation?==
We're basing all of this on one writer's (who wasn't even involved in the animation production of the show) vague 30 year old recollection? I think it's very presumptuous to attribute those episodes to this likely non-existent studio. Japanese wikipedia lists Japanese studio Anime R ([[wikipedia:ja:アニメアール|アニメアール]]) as working on the show and also Korean studio [[Dai Won Animation Co.|Daewon Animation]] ([[wikipedia:ja:テウォンメディア|大元動画]]); it's more likely either of these studios did those episodes as they both worked on American cartoons during the '80s.{{unsigned|Evan1975}}

== I might have cracked it ==

If you didn't catch my edit to Inferno's article earlier today, I observed that his different head design (with a more rounded helmet, softer features, and differently-colored head fins) occurred in both "[[Auto Berserk]]" and "[[Kremzeek!]]", two episodes we'd previously suspected of being done by this mystery studio. Following this line of thought, I've done more studying, I think I might actually have spotted some visual clues that identify this studio's episodes. First off, "[[Make Tracks]]" also features Inferno's alternate head design. Further, all these episodes have a common trait - they soften the faces of new 1985 characters, by changing lines that are supposed to run from the points of their eyes down to their chins into more curved "cheekbone-ish" contours, making their faces look more like they're "one piece", instead of the collection of angled planes Toei normally do. "[[Triple Takeover]]" is another that's I've spotted that does this. Check out these comparisons of Red from "Auto-Berserk" and Astrotrain from "Triple Takeover" next to their angular, Toei faces from "The God Gambit":

[[File:Cheekbonescomparison.jpg|300px]]

I literally never noticed Astrotrain's grey helmet in this episode before, and I thought it could be another indicator to look for, but can't find any other instance of it. Adding in "[[A Prime Problem]]", which conventional wisdom has always held is animated by the same team as "[[Auto Berserk]]", that's five of the eight episodes. I've got more examining to do, but I really think I might be onto something with this - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 16:49, 12 January 2016 (EST)

:I think there were only 7 non-Toei, non-AKOM episodes from season 2, so you're even closer than you think. The onion in the ointment though is whether or not more than 7 episodes have traces of those clues. It could mean that Toei and the unknown studio did sections of the same episode (not unheard of) but that only makes things muddier. Keep us updated! --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 17:08, 12 January 2016 (EST)
::Just curious, but what's the criteria for picking "Prime Problem" out as a non-Toei episode? I recall The Guy We Had to Wipe From History had selected it, too. I don't recall it looking particularly unToei-like and the overall lack of season 2 characters to give the "cheekbone test" to makes it even harder. It also has little moments of nice animation, if I recall correctly, and the cited episodes like "Triple Takeover" and "Kremzeek" were all much more listless or just plain fugly. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 17:16, 12 January 2016 (EST)
:::It goes back to Zobovor. Both it and "Auto Berserk" have moments of pretty incomparable fluidity, and a general softness of line and warmth of colour about them. They both have scenes where a soft white "airbrush" effect is used to create a metallic effect that I don't know I've seen anywhere else in the show. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 17:21, 12 January 2016 (EST)
::::Gotcha. Now, I hate to even suggest this but... There's no guarantee that the 7 uncreditted episodes were ALL done by the same studio. There's a chance that multiple studios could have done them, hence why some seem to look better than others. OR, they could have ALL been done by the same studio like we've assumed, but different directors resulted in different looks and feels (like those season 1 episodes such as "Roll For It" that look super duper anime, while others don't look it at all). Working blind like this kinda sucks. I'm kind of wondering if we should change this article to something like "Unknown Generation 1 animation studio" rather than assume they were all done by the Filipino place (which may not have even been in the Philippines based on recent contention). --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 17:26, 12 January 2016 (EST)
:::::Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, to be honest. Fiddling around with this article to explain the sheer ambiguity of the whole thing would be a good move. If nothing else, I feel very confident about Inferno's alternate head being the biggest, most easily-spotted visual identifier. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]])
::::::OH-HO-HO!! I think I found another! In "Make Tracks," Tracks is coloured a bit differently to normal - in robot mode, he has black windows instead of clear ones, and his wheels are the same grey as his arms and legs, instead of the darker shade they normally are. Now, "Make Tracks" has the alternate Inferno head design, so I thought this alternate color model could be another hallmark to look out for, and after some searching, it appears in only one other episode - "The Secret of Omega Supreme", another famously shoddy one that was suspected of being non-Toei! That's six.... one more to suss out!! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 15:56, 22 January 2016 (EST)
:::::::It's always been a difficult exercise to try and identify the non-Toei, non-AKOM episodes of season 2, particularly since Toei clearly had multiple teams of animators working on the series. We know Toei did all of season 1 for instance, but there's a wild variation of animation styles and quality to be seen in those 16 episodes. Thus, the difference between a poorly animated Toei episode and one of the Filipino-animated episodes is not necessarily that distinct (such as the really shoddy Toei animation in "Divide and Conquer" or "The Ultimate Doom Part 1").
:::::::Two episodes not mentioned that I used to be fairly sure were animated by the Filipino studio are "[[War Dawn (episode)|War Dawn]]" and "[[Starscream's Brigade]]"; the style in both of them is just a little too off at times, particularly in the latter episode, even accounting for Toei's quality range. I agree that another suspect episode was "[[The Secret of Omega Supreme (episode)|The Secret of Omega Supreme]]", and as an added bonus, Astrotrain has his grey helmet in that episode too. His helmet is purple in "Starscream's Brigade", but they might have had access to the correct colour model by then.
:::::::That takes us to eight episodes, so the one I'd be tempted to knock off the list would be "A Prime Problem"; it's not up to standard efforts clearly from Toei, but other than the "airbrush" effect I wouldn't be quite as quick to identify it as one of the Filipino episodes, but instead a sub-par Toei effort.
:::::::From a real-world perspective, it probably makes sense that there would be a smattering of episodes from this studio produced roughly mid-to-late range in season 2, when Toei would also have been assigning animators to the Movie. - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 17:07, 22 January 2016 (EST)
::::::::I, too, considered "Starscream's Brigade," because it has that very soft, warm look, but I've discounted it because Grapple and Astrotrain (and following today's discovery, yep, Tracks) have the correct color models in it. We know from Akom's series-long goofs, it just wasn't likely that updated versions of these things got sent around. I DID miss that Astrotrain has the alternate helmet in "Secret," though!
::::::::Although it's certainly the case with "Secret" or "Kremzeek," I don't really think of "sub-par" as being a way of defining the non-Akom/Toei episodes. "A Prime Problem" and "Auto Berserk" have some really beautiful moments of fluid, high-frame rate stuff in them (the auto-scout weaving between the crytals, the missile shooting down the corridor into the bunker) that I don't know I can think of a really comparable example of from a Toei episodes. I spotted something similar in "Make Tracks" today, when Sideswipe tackles Ravage, that ties them together for me. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 17:20, 22 January 2016 (EST)
:::::::::For "sub-par", I'd refer to the actual character renderings rather than the fluidity of the animation itself, as the AKOM episodes are well-known for having some exceptionally fluid animated sequences. I still strongly suspect "Starscream's Brigade" was one of their episodes and that they simply had the colour models all updated by then. Personally, I wouldn't say it's necessarily a given that just because AKOM never received the correct colour models that the Filipino studio also never did, especially if they were a Toei subcontractor. Anyway, that's my take on it! - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 18:41, 22 January 2016 (EST)
:::::::::::I can't deny, I keep coming back to "Brigade," because it does have that soft-lined quality. But I'd still say "Prime Problem" or "Auto Berserk" have better character renderings than a low-end Toei episode! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 18:49, 22 January 2016 (EST)
I've been going through the suspect episodes again, and another colour-identifier to watch out for is Thrust; his shoulders and air intakes in robot mode are consistently red in every single shot he appears in both "Auto Berserk" and "Triple Takeover".

There's also a semi-recurrent error with Starscream's eyes occasionally being blue in "Auto Berserk", "Triple Takeover", and "Starscream's Brigade", but it's not quite as compelling an argument.

It's from 2012, but Zob [https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.toys.transformers/ro0LGSJfMD4/5M6uQVXqtqIJ| posted a list] on ATT (where else?) of his take on the non-Toei, non-AKOM episodes of season 2. Zob's list includes both "A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court" and "Hoist Goes Hollywood", which *really* look like Toei efforts.

Between us all, there's a consensus that "Make Tracks", "The Secret of Omega Supreme", "Kremzeek!" and "Triple Takeover" are almost certainly all non-Toei, non-AKOM episodes, and although Zob didn't include it in his list, observations on the episode make it pretty clear that "Auto Berserk" should also be included for a total 5 episodes identified.

Therefore, between all the lists, that would leave the remaining two episodes to probably be among "A Prime Problem", "War Dawn", or "Starscream's Brigade". Not much new here, but thought it worth noting! - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 17:56, 7 February 2016 (EST)
:OOh, good spot with Thrust's shoulders! I wonder what Zob was seeing "Hoist Goes Hollywood"? I can ''sort'' of see "Decepticon Raider" and "Brigade" we've talked about, but not that one. I think I'm going to put the five we've agreed upon up on the article, though. And also, move the article to a better name. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 14:22, 9 February 2016 (EST)
::Excellent work so far, as always! In the meantime, I've gone through the suspect episodes again, and I now agree with you on "A Prime Problem", and think the remaining episode is very probably "War Dawn". One of the smoking guns is the use (or lack thereof) of Toei-originated stock animation. That is, an episode featuring *two* Optimus Primes somehow doesn't use his stock transformation sequence at any point?

::Prime's stock transformation sequence does appear in "Starscream's Brigade", and they also tinker with it slightly as he gets in a whole line before actually transforming, so they clearly had access to the original cels. Every other episode that ever used the sequence was clearly a Toei-animated episode, so I think "Brigade" may just be one of their episodes assigned to a lesser team, like "Divide and Conquer" (which we know was a Toei episode).

::And of the episodes that didn't use Prime's transformation animation, this leaves "War Dawn" as the only other one that isn't in the same style as Toei's main animation teams. The aforementioned lack of season 2 characters makes this one really tough to 100% identify, but it's notable that the top of Slingshot's head is consistently white in every single shot, and we've seen before that the unknown studio were nothing if not consistent with their non-standard colours for newer characters. I know that particular error also cropped up in Toei episodes (most particularly "Aerial Assault"), but never for the entire episode, let alone one actually focussing on the Aerialbots. Yes, there's some Toei-looking shots in the episode, but these could have been retakes picked up by them later. - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 19:53, 9 February 2016 (EST)
:::Oh NICE, I would NOT have thought to look for Prime's stock footage! Actually, let's crunch the numbers on that out in the open here on the talk page for everyone playing along at home.
:::Okay, so, thanks to the Cybertron Chronicle's records of it, we know that the only season 2 episodes that DON'T have the stock footage in them are (taking its use in any two-parters as evidence that both parts were done by the same studio): "City of Steel," "The Autobot Run," "A Prime Problem," "The Core," "The Master Builders," "Auto Berserk," "Microbots," "Decepticon Raider," "Golden Lagoon," "God Gambit," "Make Tracks," "Quest for Survival," "Secret of Omega Supreme," "Kremzeek," "Sea Change," "Triple Takeover," "Prime Target," "Auto Bop," "Girl Who Loved Powerglide," "Hoist Goes Hollywood," "Aerial Assault," "War Dawn," "Trans Europe Express," "Cosmic Rust," and "BOT."
:::From that list, we can remove "City of Steel," "The Autobot Run," "The Core," "Auto Berserk," "Make Tracks," "Secret of Omega Supreme," "Kremzeek," and "Triple Takeover" as being the work of AKOM or ones we have definitely identified as "unknown studio" episodes based on the presence of outdated character models.
:::So then, going through the remaining episodes with that list of outdated character models as reference, we can eliminate the following episodes based on the fact the characters appear ''correctly'' in them: "The Master Builders" (Grapple, Inferno, and Tracks), "Microbots" (Smokescreen), "Golden Lagoon" (Thrust), "God Gambit" (Astrotrain), "Quest for Suvival" (Tracks, Smokescreen, and Grapple), "Sea Change" (Astrotrain), "Prime Target" (Astrotrain, Inferno, Grapple, and Tracks), "Auto Bop" (Tracks), "Girl Who Loved Powerglide" (Thrust), "Hoist Goes Hollywood" (Tracks, Astrotrain, and Thrust), "Trans Europe Express" (Tracks and Smokescreen), and "Cosmic Rust" (Astrotrain, Tracks, Smokescreen, and Inferno).
:::That leaves our only ''possible'' contenders as "A Prime Problem," "Decepticon Raider," "Aerial Assault," "War Dawn," and "BOT." "A Prime Problem" is visually quite distinct from all of these and I think we all agree it must be one of them. "BOT can be ruled out, as it features Ironhide using the generic Autobot laser pistol design, which only appears in Toei episodes. "Aerial Assault" is definitely ''way'' too good to be anything but a Toei episode, so that only leaves "Raider" and "War Dawn," but focusing on Slingshot's white skullcap, I checked out all his season 3 appearances, and he appears with it in ''every'' one of them animated by AKOM, which ''screams'' "outdated character model." Add that consistent use to the generally slipshod "War Dawn" (which also lacks the generic laser pistol, arming Ironhide and Ratchet with grey versions of Optimus's gun instead) and yes, I do believe we have our seven episodes!
:::Jon, what are you thoughts on my supposition that "Starscream's Ghost" and "Only Human" are also this studio's work? - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 06:57, 10 February 2016 (EST)
::::Aside from the general competence of animation being higher than an average AKOM episode, I've always had suspicions about both episodes, and before Toei's website put the numbers up I seriously thought "Only Human" could have been one of theirs. I remember Rik Bakke also saying he had a production schedule that claimed Toei animated "Starscream's Ghost", casting more suspicion on that episode, although we now know neither episode is from Toei, as the numbers literally don't add up.

::::Based on further observations, "Starscream's Ghost" and "Only Human" do look to be from the same animators as each other. I concentrated on Rodimus as he's one of the few characters prominently seen in both episodes. His spoiler is invariably depicted as being mostly horizontal rather than angled/curved (when seen from the front) in AKOM or Toei episodes. The tyres on his upper arms also seem to be coloured red quite often (like in the Toei episodes), but with the hub cap still rendered white (like the AKOM episodes). Most tellingly, his rifle is coloured the same way between both episodes, whereas otherwise it's either black (Toei) or red (AKOM).

::::One quirk both episodes share with clear AKOM episodes is the use of outdated colour schemes, as with Galvatron's pink (rather than purple "underpants". They also share with AKOM the colouring of the inside of the season 3 characters' mouths. Plus, the centre of the square just below Perceptor's chest is coloured red in AKOM episodes, as well as in "Starscream's Ghost" (it's only one shot, but it's there) and "Only Human". This is particularly notable, as in "The Secret of Omega Supreme", he has his correct colour scheme seen in Toei productions, with the square being coloured completely white. Starscream's colourful back, with the orange back cowling and blue engines, isn't seen in any other episode.

::::Another observation from the same episode is that Galvatron transforms twice, and each time this occurs, his particle cannon correctly detaches itself from his arm and joins back with him once he's transformed. AKOM really liked to "cheat" this, with the cannon being either being "swallowed up" in his transformation or simply falling out of shot, never seen to be reattaching itself. Only rarely was this depicted correctly outside of a Toei episode (although amazingly, one example can be seen in "Carnage in C-Minor").

::::Given the prominent and consistent use of outdated character designs and generally much higher-quality animation, I think it makes for a compelling argument that these two were not in fact animated by AKOM. If not for their use of blatantly outdated models, the same sort of confusion that we've seen with the seven season 2 episodes might have also applied to these two when comparing to Toei's efforts. Whether it was actually the same studio as the unknown one that worked on season 2 may still be up for debate however (why did they suddenly start using AKOM's colours for Perceptor?). But one of the biggest supporting factors, aside from animation quality, is probably their propensity for adding lips to the characters, like in their last pre-Movie episode, "War Dawn".

::::Between the shared colour schemes with AKOM, and AKOM's own episode-long use of Cyclonus's alternate character model in "The Rebirth Part 2", it's easy to see why these two episodes were lumped in with AKOM's work for years.

::::And on that note, it makes it all the more compelling an argument that maybe "Carnage in C-Minor" might not have been animated by AKOM after all either. AKOM tended to be consistent with their incorrect colour models, so it doesn't entirely make sense that for this one episode they suddenly started correctly colouring the inside of all the season 3 characters' mouths grey in every shot. AKOM look to have only stopped colouring the characters' mouths in the following season's "The Rebirth".

::::From a numbers point-of-view, it might make some sense that for season 3, Toei and AKOM both got 13 episode (i.e. a season's worth) orders, with the remaining episodes divided up into another three unknown studios. AKOM's work was bad, but there was a limit to how bad it got. "Carnage in C-Minor" is way underneath even AKOM's worst work.

::::Oh, and as a final observation I noticed two Thrusts show up with his alternate colour scheme in "Thief in the Night", if that's worth noting! - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 20:02, 12 February 2016 (EST)
:::::I find the thing I look for in particular on Rodimus is the extra trapezoid on his crotch, which isn't part of his "early" animation model, and so comes and goes from AKOM episodes depending what a particular scene is animated using. They ''always'' use the early ''colors'', though, like Galvatron (whose early model isn't very different and really quite tricky to spot), so it's never colored in, and that's made me miss it more than once when it's there. The curved tips to his shoudlers are probably a better "tell." His gun is that odd color scheme in some parts of FFoD too, as I recall.
:::::(Actually, speaking of Galvatron's early model, I ''think'' he might spend ''all'' of "Starscream's Ghost" in it.)
:::::The Perceptor thing might not be ''that'' unusual - there's at least one scene in "Triple Takeover" where Astrotrain has his purple helmet, and another in "Secret of Omega" too. If this is only one scene in "Starscream's Ghost," I ''feeeeel'' like it's maybe negligible for our purposes.
:::::It's sounding like it might be a good idea to move this page to "Unknown Generation 1 animation studio'''s'''", so we can detail all of this on it. That "thirteen episode" theory makes an ''aaaaawful'' lot of sense...
:::::I also spotted the red Thrusts after you pointed them out in the other episodes, and I went looking to see if AKOM did them too! AKOM ''also'' used grey-helmet Astrotrain consistently, I discovered! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 20:40, 12 February 2016 (EST)
===A sudden twist!===
But wait! Could it be! I've just discovered that ''Hoist'' also has an early color model! In Toei episodes, the hinge in the centre of his chest is solid orange, and his tyres are white on the circular side, and black on the edge. On his outdate model, only the outermost points of his chest hinge are orange, with the central piece being green (which is actually-toy accurate), and his tyres are completely white (which is not). Like the others, this model appears in the original advert for the toy... in "Auto Berserk"... in "Kremzeek!"... '''aaaand'''... in "Decepticon Raider"!!!! Coooooould just be we've made the wrong call on "War Dawn" - the only potential monkey wrench is that for the three shots of "Kremzeek!" he appears in, Hoist is in his outdated model for two of them, but his finalized model for one, but then, that happens with Astrotrain in other episodes too. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 17:17, 16 February 2016 (EST)
:I am consistently impressed and intimidated by your thoroughness to this endeavor. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 17:21, 16 February 2016 (EST)
::As am I. Say, it sounds like most of the 2nd year Autobot Cars have alternate models...have you tried checking [[Skids (G1)|Skids]]'s appearance in [[Triple Takeover]] for differences with his other appearance in [[Quest for Survival]]? Perhaps he had different models as well, aseeing as how he's grouped with them (sort of). Just a thought. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep|talk]]) 18:07, 16 February 2016 (EST)
:::I haven't mentioned it as we're already certain about "Triple Takeover," but he does, actually! His Toei color model is a bit piecemeal anyway, as it colors parts that ought to be the same shade of blue in a mixture of dark and pale blues. In "TT," his robot mode appearances are all tiny figures in the distance, but his windows are light instead of dark, and the top of his chest is consistently the lighter blue, compared to the darker blue it was in "Quest."
:::Red Alert also has an alternate model, but it's barely worth noting, as "Auto Berserk" is on the only "unknown studio" episode he appears in, and the only difference is that they colour him bright white instead of off-white. But that ''does'' mean that all the '85 cars have early models; I suspect these were drawn up for the commercial that starred all of them (except Skids), and were later refined. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 19:00, 16 February 2016 (EST)
::::Yes, another good catch on Hoist! The 1985 Autobot Cars commercial that his, and the other alternate models appear in, is definitely the key. I haven't seen the clearer copy that's on Youtube before now, but taking a closer look, the clear airbrushed look on Optimus Prime does look atypical for Toei's work. I wonder if the other studio animated this ad?
::::There are elements of "Raider" that do still look like Toei work, such as the faces of the human cast in multiple shots. Could this be circumstantial evidence that the other studio may have been a Japanese one? Plus the inclusion of an in-joke referencing Dungeons & Dragons (26 of its 27 episodes animated by Toei) is another element that originally threw the scent off. "Hank" may have been included in the original storyboards by a Marvel staffer, or perhaps by the same studio who did the one non-Toei D&D episode (I don't know which one it is, but it's a first season episode according to the old Toei website).
::::If Hoist's other model literally appears in no other episode that we've identified as being a Toei episode, then "Raider" *has* to be included in the list of non-Toei ones. "War Dawn" is the obvious suspect to remove, but Slingshot's persistently white skullcap is still a noteworthy anomaly. If we're agreed it's a Toei episode, then it may very well have been done by the same low-rent team that did "Starscream's Brigade".
::::With all the animation and production memorabilia collectors out there, it would be nice if *someone* had documentation that proved *something* - most crucially, the names of the other studios! - [[User:Jon T|Jon T]] ([[User talk:Jon T|talk]]) 19:04, 17 February 2016 (EST)
:::::My only qualm with the Unknown Studio being Japanese in origin is all the bad Japanese text seen in "Kremzeek!" There's the possibility that the Unknown Studio farmed those backgrounds out to one of the Korean sub studios like Dai Won that did in-betweening and photography work, but that's getting so nitty-gritty we'd never be able to figure it out. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 10:15, 18 February 2016 (EST)
:::::Oh YEAH, look at that! I didn't look closely at Prime before but yeah, there's the airbrushing from "Auto Berserk" and "A Prime Problem!" You know, it makes an extra little touch of sense that "A Prime Problem" would be the first episode to be done by this studio, if they did this commercial, being that it's the first one to feature any new 1985 product - in the script from the Ron Friedman auction, there are even deleted scenes that show it was supposed to introduce Inferno and Ramjet as well.
:::::Y'know, I took a quick look, and Slingshot's even got his white skullcap in "Call of the Primitives." Added to the times it popped up in Toei episodes, if this was an early model (and it probably was since AKOM used it all the time), it seems like it must have made it pretty late in there. Like maybe his full-body model had the white head and his close-up head turnaround had the orange - two models that would have co-existed at Toei, and so the studio would have had them both at the same time and gone back and forth between them, but the head turnaround wouldn't likely have made it out to AKOM. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 12:05, 18 February 2016 (EST)

AND HERE'S ANOTHER!! Thinking about "Decepticon Raider" and Warpath, I remembered the inconsistency we have noted on his article about what his face did when he talked, and thought there could be something to check there. So, yes, for my sins, I have just checked... sigh... every single piece of season 2 Warpath dialogue outside of "Raider"... and they are ALL in Toei episodes, and ALL* of the episodes in which his face is shown (because he delivers a LOT of his dialogue in tank mode, and from off-screen), he has the glowing blue slats. It's only in "Raider" that his mouthplate jiggles (and taking a second look, it actually only does ''that'' in one or two scenes, not moving otherwise) which seems to me to be more evidence it's done by the Unknown Studio.

(*Mitigating circumstances for "Quest for Survival," in which Warpath does not have the slats, but the only line he speaks while his face is on-screen in the episode is the partial finishing-off of a sentence begun from off-screen, which I think is enough to mitigate them not doing the effect. His plate certainly doesn't jiggle either.) - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:48, 18 February 2016 (EST)

==That's some good work, Lou==

I didn't follow half of your sleuthing, but I believe it, so good job Chris and Jon. With the 7 episodes more or less pinpointed, do you want to update the Season 2 info boxes to state the unknown studio definitively and not just "Toei (maybe)"? --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 12:53, 18 February 2016 (EST)
::Hey, thanks, Chief! I feel pretty good about going ahead and doing that. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:48, 18 February 2016 (EST)

== Carnage in C-Minor ==

Feeling like I'm on a roll, I decided to go back to Jon's suggestion that "Carnage in C-Minor" might not have been an AKOM episode, but the work of another unknown studio, since it's ''so'' bad, and lacks AKOM's characteristic interior-mouth coloring. I don't know that I've found anything useful yet - Soundwave's still in the wrong color scheme, Devastator still uses his oudated color model, like normal AKOM episodes, but I thought Broadside might be one to look at, since his outdated model extends to his alternate forms, rather than just his robot mode. "Carnage" was his first robot mode appearance, but when AKOM animated him again in "Grimlock's New Brain," they used his finalized model, and if we've learned anything from this endeavour, it's that studios that weren't Toei didn't get updated materials. So here's what I found: in "The Killing Jar," Broadside appears only in jet mode, but it's the jet mode from his finalized model. In "Thief in the Night," he appears only in carrier mode; in his first scene, it's a conglomerate of both his early and finished models - the hull of his early model, but the communications tower of his finished model (they have different dishes) - but in his second, transporting the Autobots, it's all the old model. And in "Carnage," both his robot and jet are from the early model... but the carrier is from the ''finished'' model. So... no, I don't know what to make of that at all. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 05:42, 20 February 2016 (EST)

==Companies mentioned on animenewsnetwork.com==

Has anyone looked into the companies listed as having worked, uncredited, in the animation for the Transformers TV series according to animenewsnetwork.com ? According to them, Anime R, Ashi Productions, Kaname Production, Nakamura Production, and TMS Entertainment (Tokyo Movie Shinsha) all did so.
:Firstly, ANN isn't always an accurate source of information thanks to it being user-contributed like this wiki. So information isn't always accurate to a fault. Second, most of those companies, save Ashi, are already on the main page listed as support studios. While we can't rule out anything based on what little information we actually have on the studios to begin with, I'd highly doubt they'd be hired by anyone else but Toei to work on the series. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 20:04, 10 December 2018 (EST)

== Ashi Productions ==

The page for "[[Call of the Primitives]]" says based on the staff and timing, the episode was likely animated by this company, [[Ashi Productions]]? They don't seem to be based in the Philippines, but as a Toei subcontractor would they be a contender for this studio? - [[User:TFfan1|TFfan1]], March 29 2020, 11:09 PST
:The animation style of "Call of the Primitives" is completely different from any of the episodes we've attributed to this studio, so unlikely. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 14:14, 29 March 2020 (EDT)

== Sei Young Animation Co ==

A possibility worth exploring is Korean company Sei Young Animation Co. Marvel used them for 63 episodes of Defenders Of The Earth in 1985 and 1986. They had a very Toei-esque style, having collaborated with them at various points since 1978. It would make sense if the purpose of sending 10 episodes to other studios in season 2, apart from the immediate benefit of taking pressure off Toei, was a test run before commissioning these studios full-time on other shows (AKOM would gradually become Marvel's primary animator). [[User:Greebtron|Greebtron]] ([[User talk:Greebtron|talk]]) 20:18, 21 April 2020 (EDT)
: I think you might be on to something here, at least with a few of the uglier looking episodes like "Kremzeek". It reminds me a bit of the feel and quality seen in some Toei-associated episodes of the time like "Child's Play" or "The Gambler". Heck, it actually wouldn't surprise me if Sei Young actually did those episodes too (under contract of Toei and not Marvel directly, of course). But that's just my thoughts on the matter, anyway. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 19:43, 20 July 2020 (EDT)

== (Season 3) Toei's 13th episode? ==

So I was skimming through the Season 3 episode articles because this was bothering me, but since "Surprise Party" was recently found out to be a Sei Young episode, that leaves Toei with only twelve confirmed Season 3 episodes, even though their resume says they did thirteen.

So my theories are:

1. Either "Surprise Party" was a Toei episode that Sei Young worked on (which would be expected giving their working relationship) and Sei Young simply sent Marvel the finished episode in Toei's place (I don't know the ins-and-outs of outsourcing animation but I think it's a possibility), leaving "Call of the Primitives" the weird outlier.

OR

2. "Surprise Party" was directly assigned to Sei Young, and "Call of the Primitives" was assigned to Toei, and Toei decided to subcontract the work to another studio (possibly Ashi Productions, going by the trivia note on the episode page). We know AKOM did the same thing with "Starscream's Ghost" and "Only Human", so it's not without precedent.

I could just be rambling nonsense, and the edit to the "Surprise" article was very recent, but I felt this needed to be brought up. --[[User:TheAmazingPoncho|TheAmazingPoncho]] ([[User talk:TheAmazingPoncho|talk]]) 21:33, 28 July 2020 (EDT)

== A possibility, perhaps? ==

So seeing how we finally found out that "Call' was a Toei episode farmed to another company ([[Studio Look]]), it got me wondering about Ashi Pro's involvement in the series regarding their work on the show and I found [https://w.atwiki.jp/sakuga/?cmd=word&word=%E3%83%88%E3%83%A9%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B9%E3%83%95%E3%82%A9%E3%83%BC%E3%83%9E%E3%83%BC&type=&pageid=309 this]. It mentions both Habara's involvement on "Heavy Metal War" and Ashi's overall work on the show to his best recollection. The other episodes featured are labeled as "3, 8, 13, 22 and 32". Problem number 1 is that it's difficult as to what order the list is referring to as the English and Japanese broadcast airings are different to both.

Going by the English order, the episodes consist of "More Than Meets the Eye, Part 3", "S.O.S. Dinobots", "The Ultimate Doom, Part 3", "The Imobilizer" and "The Master Builders". Whereas in Japanese, while the first episode is identical, the other ones in that order consists of "War of the Dinobots", "Traitor", "A Prime Problem" and "The God Gambit". Problem no. 2 with that is with the Japanese order, which just straight on Toei or Korean-contracted-under-Toei titles (barring "Prime Problem", which we know is the work of the still-unidentified mystery studio), so I assume the page meant the original English order, which by extension marks "Roll For It" as a possible Ashi episode due to the similarities between it and "S.O.S." But again, that order is also pretty suspect as neither "Imobilizer" or "Master Builders" look anything like an Ashi-contracted episode and more like one of the Toei-supervised Korean episodes of Season 2.

Still, thought this was interesting all things considered. Any thoughts? [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 17:14, 12 September 2020 (EDT)
:What if you exclude the More Than Meets the Eye miniseries from the enumeration? It was produced separately, after all. What are episodes 3, 8, 13, 22, and 32 then? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 19:00, 12 September 2020 (EDT)
:And could it only be referring to Season 2? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 19:03, 12 September 2020 (EDT)
::Now that's the million dollar question I want to know the answer to, as the page I linked to considers it and the rest of Season 1 as one entity and not two separately produced batches. Not to mention this very wiki doesn't seem to discern the difference either and lumps the pilot in with the rest of the series, so I'm mostly basing my speculations towards that. Also, I think the count is for both, Seasons 1 and 2 if we take that into consideration. Only thing to do now is either ask Habara for clarification or wait until production sheets for the first two seasons surface before making better judgement.[[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 11:43, 14 September 2020 (EDT)
:::Seasons 1 and 2 use the same format of production codes, but the pilot is separate. The pilot is codes 4023, 4024, and 4025. Season 1 proper runs from 700-01 to 700-13 and Season 2 runs from 700-16 to 700-64. You have to go to the individual episode pages to get these, though. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 11:49, 14 September 2020 (EDT)
::::3 = [[Divide and Conquer]], 8 = [[The Ultimate Doom, Part 1]], 13 = [[Heavy Metal War]], 22 = [[The Autobot Run]], and 32 = [[Auto Berserk]], based on production codes.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 10:56, 21 September 2020 (EDT)
:::::And that makes no sense we we already know The Autobot Run is very obviously AKOM, which again brings up the question of what the source I found is exactly meaning with its episode order. There's also the fact that the page seem to explicitly mention Heavy Metal War's order in both versions of the series (10 in Japanese, 16 in the original US). So I don't really know what to think.[[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 14:29, 26 September 2020 (EDT)

== Asking Dery ==

This might be opening a ''terrible'' idea (I've read his talk page), but do you think if anyone could get a hold of Floro Dery he could shed some light on this? He was a design supervisor and ''might'' have some info? I also have no idea if he's lived in the Philippines for all this time but if he was in the animation scene around then he might have a better idea of what studios were operating at the time that could've been the illusive studio. [[User:TransFormersfan1|TransFormersfan1]] ([[User talk:TransFormersfan1|talk]]) 13:18, 2 December 2020 (EST)

== Another Possibility ==

Been sitting on this for a while now, but a thought crossed my mind fairly recently. With the reveal that Sei Young was the one responsible (or at least credited for) Surprise Party, it got me to thinking- What if one or more of the episodes attributed to this unknown studio are actually Sei Young's work? Comparing their work on Surprise Party or even Season 2 episodes credited to Toei like Child's Play or The Master Builders to say, Kremzeek or Triple Takeover, they look pretty similar. Call me crazy, but I certainly feel I might have stumbled onto something. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 21:25, 23 January 2021 (EST)

== A Possible Suggestion ==

I know this is probably a longshot, but has anyone actually asked any of the show's animators on the Japanese side of things? Not many of the US-based crew seem willing to answer (presuming they even have the materials to begin with), but I feel like if anyone could get in touch with an animator from the Japan side of the coin. We could hopefully get a better idea as to who did what episode. The problem though, from what I see is two-fold. The first is that I wouldn't know which among us would even know enough Japanese to properly ask the question in the first place. The second is whether or not said animators would even remember working on the show to begin with (assuming they did in the first place). Especially since for most of them it'd be among their first credits, and animators who were active during the 1980s usually seem to ignore that period where Japan got most of America's animation outside of some exceptions. Either way though, I think it'd be worth an attempt if nothing more. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 01:16, 15 July 2022 (EDT)

==Shin Won?==

I tweeted to the Wiki account and [[User:Chris_McFeely|Chris McFeely]] about this last year and promptly forgot all about it, but it's a possible lead. The [https://web.archive.org/web/20211201064759/https://digilander.libero.it/dottor_vaffa/ Megna Co-Productions database] lists the following studios as having worked on Transformers: Toei, Sei Young, Dai Won, Shin Won, Sam Young and Akom. Most of those are accounted for here, except Shin Won, so I did some digging.

According to the [https://www.kmdb.or.kr/db/per/00003442 Korean Movie Database] they were known as "Educational Fairy Tale" (or just Gyoyuk, which I guess is Korean for educational fairy tale - I'm using Google Translate for most of this) until 1986, when they became Shin Won and then "Production Grimi" in the late 90s. They're now defunct, it seems. Their [https://web.archive.org/web/20030215231041fw_/http://www.grimi.co.kr/index02.html official website circa 2003] (thanks to the Wayback Machine) has them claiming credit for work on various anime, Transformers, GI Joe, Jem, Real Ghostbusters, Dennis and, crucially, Teddy Ruxpin. Checking back on Megna, the Shin Won is the ''only'' studio attributed to Teddy Ruxpin. The [https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/company.php?id=1361 Anime News Network] profile for them has them credited on different shows with everything from "colour co-ordination check" to in-betweening to finish animation to paint to just "animation". So while it's entirely possible their contribution to Transformers was out-source assistance work to Toei or Akom, like Dai Won and Sam Young, that variety of contributions and Teddy Ruxpin suggests they're capable of producing entire episodes independently and so could be the mystery studio.

There are potential issues with this of course. First is that Wikipedia credits Teddy Ruxpin to Atkinson Film-Arts (along with DiC), who I don't know enough about to know whether they animated in-house or out-sourced the main work uncredited. Megna doesn't mention Atkinson at all for Teddy Ruxpin. Second is that Megna doesn't cite its sources, although Shin Won's own website is presumably the source in this case. Would they have reason to lie? Seems unlikely, but can't be ruled out, I guess. I suppose the acid test would be watching some Teddy Ruxpin. [[User:Danja|Danja]] ([[User talk:Danja|talk]]) 07:02, 26 January 2023 (EST)

:It's possible, That database is weird when it comes to listing outsourcing studios. And given how little we know about the studios in question (acid testing is how I was able to deduce some of the efforts of Anime R, Nakamura Pro, and Studio Look for Toei's episodes since two of them --R and Look-- lack websites and the third --Nakamura Pro-- ''has'' a website, but lacks a proper resume thanks to all the work they've done), it's possible we might have Shin Won doing an episode or two on their own. And if so, I can see them handling "Krmezeek", "Triple Takeover" and "The Secret of Omega Supreme" at least, leaving "Make Tracks", "A Prime Problem" and "Auto-Berserk" the remaining outliers if that is the case.

:As far as Teddy Ruxpin is concerned, Atkinson handled most of the pre-production services. The animation, as per usual with DiC, went to Asian studios uncredited (no idea if this tied into union rules being exploited like with Marvel, or DiC just being dicks), so Shin Won being involved might be something to look into so we can try and acid wash some of their episodes. Again, it bites not having the proper documentation for these things.[[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 05:18, 4 February 2023 (EST)

UPDTATE (since I forgot this thought initially): Is it possible that Shin Won also worked on some of the uglier-looking Toei episodes as well? I'm looking over some of the more infamous ones like "Child's Play" and "Starscream's Brigade" (credited to both Nakamura Pro and Sei Young alongside Toei currently; though I have my doubts about the Korean studio's involvement going over it), and it certainly feels like "Kremzeek" and "Triple Takeover" both have similar faults as the other episodes I just mentioned. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 13:25, 14 February 2023 (EST)

==I'm on a mission to identify all AKOM eps and it's quite a chore (update below)==

Longtime G1 fan, 1st time caller here. I can't say much now, because I have zero free time, but I'm just starting a couple of huge projects relating to a library of G1 episodes I'm editing for my personal collection, and it would likely be of interest to the community here. One project is heavy research on who did what animation. This started because I've been away from the fandom for decades, and noticed recently a hell of a lot of errors in information regarding the animation studios involved. This has been going on since I came across Hasbro Pulse TF eps on youtube several months ago, and you will see tons of comments left by me saying basically those 3 episodes (you know the ones) were absolutely NOT by AKOM, and a bunch of other mistaken assumptions came out of that mistaken assumption. It's amazing that no one seemed to make the connection to other, earlier Marvel shows. Remember "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends"? Since TF first aired, I immediately recognized animation similar to that show. Three eps are by Toei, but for all the rest, the credits say "Produced in association with MiHahn, Inc." They were a South Korean outfit, which according to scant info also outsourced to other studios. Whether any of those are based in the Phillipines, I don't know, but as far as I'm concerned, I go with "suspected to be by MiHahn". I'm maintaining a spreadsheet, and I will take everything else written here into consideration. When I'm finished identifying all AKOM eps to the best of my ability to detect these various animation techniques, I will let folks know. [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 20:27, 6 April 2023 (EDT)

:Anything helps, I'm getting really tired of trying to identify episodes by eye to the point I don't know how many I have accurate and how many I'm completely wrong about (the downside to acid testing is that there are plenty of episodes with similar styles). Both for Toei and AKOM alike. This is why I wish we had full production materials, if they still exist, regarding who did what, so can't wait for that spreadsheet. [[User:Wiffletron|Wiffletron]] ([[User talk:Wiffletron|talk]]) 20:31, 8 April 2023 (EDT)

::Agreed with everything you say, but I haven't given up identifying by looking just yet. I now have other asks and thoughts available, '''so here's my update'''. I haven't completely ruled out AKOM possibly subcontracting whoever worked on what I call the three Season 2 "PSE-style" eps (for "Pan Sang East"). It's certainly not in-house. If that's what's happened, then I currently believe the ten non-Toei eps from Season 2 are all AKOM. I left a discussion note in "Only Human", and I'm writing one now for "Triple Takeover". I'm not ready to share the spreadsheet, but all of my thoughts and best guesses so far are now at my user page, and anyone can feel free to discuss there; I promise to consider everything. [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 18:20, 6 May 2023 (EDT)

User:JoseBxR

2023-05-06T22:03:06Z

JoseBxR: /* Other Shows */

User:JoseBxR

2023-05-06T21:59:57Z

JoseBxR: /* All notes on identifying G1 animation (subject to change) */

User:JoseBxR

2023-05-06T21:59:36Z

JoseBxR: /* All notes on identifying G1 animation (subject to change) */

User:JoseBxR

2023-05-06T21:47:56Z

JoseBxR: /* Animation Determination As Of May 6, 2023 */

Talk:Brobdingnagian scientist

2023-05-06T21:04:54Z

JoseBxR:

Wouldn't it be "Brobdingnagian scientist"? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 16:32, 19 April 2012 (EDT)
:While that would be fun, I don't think we've ever gotten an official name for the species. But if you wanna move it, go ahead. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 16:33, 19 April 2012 (EDT)

Someone at the "Child's Play" page says Japanese Wiki credits Jack Angel as "Scientist". I agree, because I can tell by listening. It's not John Stephenson. Another clue: Stephenson has no TF characters in this ep, but Angel has Smokescreen (barely). [[User:JoseBxR|JoseBxR]] ([[User talk:JoseBxR|talk]]) 17:04, 6 May 2023 (EDT)

User:JoseBxR

2023-05-06T19:38:37Z

JoseBxR: /* Challenges */

User:JoseBxR

2023-05-06T19:16:29Z

JoseBxR: /* Other Shows */