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A Prime Problem

2016-01-25T23:08:23Z

Markatron:

{{episode
|series=G1toon
|ep=27
|series2=SRLFtoon
|ep2=22
|prev2=The Insecticon Syndrome
|next2=City of Steel (episode)
|series3=''[[Transformers: Generation 2 (cartoon)|Transformers: Generation 2]]''
|ep3=31
|prev3=Enter the Nightbird
|next3=The Insecticon Syndrome
|image=Primedeux.jpg
|caption=Double your pleasure...
|title="A Prime Problem"
|production code=#700-26
|airdate=[[October 2]], 1985
|written by=[[Dick Robbins]] [[Bryce Malek]]
|production company=[[Sunbow Productions]]
|animation studio=[[Toei]] (maybe)
|continuity=[[Generation 1 cartoon continuity]]
}}

'''Megatron creates a clone of Optimus Prime to lure the Autobots to their doom.'''

==Synopsis==
[[File:PrimeProblem Decepticons at crevasse.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|All right, who wants to dive first?]]

The Decepticons discover a crevasse in the [[Earth]] from which is emanating strange energy readings. [[Megatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Megatron]] stops [[Starscream (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Starscream]] from diving straight in, and orders [[Soundwave (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Soundwave]] to send in an [[autoscout]]. They quickly determine that the crevasse is full of dangerous [[korlonium crystal]]s, which destroy anything with electronic [[circuits|circuitry]] on contact, and decide to try to trick the [[Autobot]]s into entering the crevasse. To that end they retire to their nearby [[Incredibly tall rocket|temporary operations base]].

[[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]] and the Autobots show up at the scene shortly, but before they can learn more about the lights, they are attacked by a Decepticon squad led by Starscream. Megatron dispatches [[Laserbeak (G1)|Laserbeak]], who knocks Prime over a cliff with a few well-aimed shots and puts him out of commission. The Decepticon then beams holographic pictures of the Autobot leader back to Megatron, who uses them to create a [[Optimus Prime clone|remote-controlled clone]] out of a [[clone synthesizer]].

[[File:PrimeProblem Megatron prime splitscreen.jpg|right|upright=1.1|thumb|Speed, I will not let you race in this race!]]

While the real Optimus is still clambering out of the pit he fell into, the clone leads the Autobots back to base. There are some awkward moments when the clone addresses [[Ironhide (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ironhide]] as "[[Bumblebee (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Bumblebee]]", fails to work [[Teletraan I (G1)|Teletraan I]], and doesn't even remember giving Teletraan I a check up earlier that day, but the Autobots are distracted by the perimeter alarm sounding — the real Optimus Prime has arrived back at base. Under the clone's leadership, the Autobots prepare to shoot the real Prime as an impostor, but Ironhide stops them, announcing that no one's shooting anyone until they determine who's really Optimus Prime.

[[File:PrimeProblem Twin primes rev up.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|THIS is how you REALLY blow off steam!]]

Teletraan I scans both Primes, but is unable to determine which of them is fake. The clone excels at sharp-shooting, and when it's the real Prime's turn, the rocky outcrop they're using as a target falls on him. Fortunately Optimus shrugs the rubble off. A race to the end of the flats and back is even less conclusive. Any further tests are interrupted by Teletraan I reporting an increase in activity from the crevasse — in reality the work of Megatron's [[energy amplifier]]s. Ironhide announces he's taking command while Optimus Prime's identity is uncertain and the Autobots set out for the crevasse.

Naturally, they soon run into a Decepticon ambush. From the Decepticon base, Megatron and Starscream watch the fight. Megatron has decided that to win the Autobots' trust completely, the false Prime will have to destroy a Decepticon. Furthermore he's picked Starscream to take the fall. Starscream isn't too enthusiastic about this plan, and makes a run for it. He's seen leaving the base by [[Windcharger (G1)|Windcharger]] and [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Spike Witwicky]], who then watch Laserbeak drag the protesting Decepticon back to base, enabling the pair to slip in unnoticed. Megatron explains the part of his plan that he neglected to mention earlier: that the Prime clone will only be destroying a clone of Starscream. Windcharger and Spike watch the production of Starscream's clone, and start back to warn the Autobots, but are spotted — Spike is captured by Laserbeak while Windcharger falls into the crevasse.

[[File:PrimeProblem Windcharger scrap.jpg|right|upright=1.1|thumb|No bacon on the salad!]]
Out on the battlefield, both Autobots and Decepticons alike are surprised when the [[Starscream clone (G1)|Starscream clone]] joins in and immediately challenges one of the Optimus Primes to a duel to the death. The Decepticon at first gets the upper hand, but is blown apart when he stops to gloat. The rest of the Decepticons flee. Now convinced that the clone is the real thing after the battle, the Autobots follow the clone to the crevasse, ignoring the warnings from the real Optimus. But before they are led to their doom, Windcharger pulls up from the crevasse and reveals the truth, letting them know that the Decepticons have Spike captive.

[[File:PrimeProblem Prime pats Spike.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|Prime rubs Spike's head for good luck.]]

The clone says to disregard Windcharger's report and Spike's plight, and orders the Autobots forward into the crevasse. Ironhide declares the clone to be the fake, because the real Prime would save Spike. The Autobots shoot the fake Optimus into oblivion and follow Prime on a rescue mission. The Decepticon rocket base quickly launches, dropping Spike in mid-air, but fortunately [[Powerglide (G1)|Powerglide]] is able to execute a mid-air rescue. Optimus assures Spike that he's the real thing, and pets the boy like a puppy.
{{--}}

==Featured characters==
{{featuredcharacters
|c1=
*[[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]] (5)
*[[Ironhide (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Ironhide]] (6)
*[[Cliffjumper (G1)|Cliffjumper]] (7)
*[[Jazz (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Jazz]] (8)
*[[Trailbreaker (G1)|Trailbreaker]] (9)
*[[Windcharger (G1)|Windcharger]] (10)
*[[Teletraan I (G1)|Teletraan I]] (18)
*[[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]] (19)
*[[Bluestreak (G1)|Bluestreak]] (20)
*[[Sideswipe (G1)|Sideswipe]] (21)
*[[Bumblebee (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Bumblebee]] (22)
*[[Sunstreaker (G1)|Sunstreaker]] (23)
*[[Gears (G1)|Gears]] (24)
*[[Brawn (G1)|Brawn]] (25)
*[[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] (26)
*[[Mirage (G1)|Mirage]] (27)
*[[Huffer (G1)|Huffer]] (28)
*[[Hound (G1)|Hound]] (30)
*[[Warpath (G1)|Warpath]] (31)
*[[Prowl (G1)|Prowl]] (32)
*[[Powerglide (G1)|Powerglide]] (33)
|c2=
*[[Soundwave (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Soundwave]] (1)
*[[Megatron (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Megatron]] (2)
*[[Starscream (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Starscream]] (3)
*[[Autoscout]] (4)
*[[Reflector (G1)|Reflector]] (12)
*[[Skywarp (G1)|Skywarp]] (13)
*[[Thundercracker (G1)|Thundercracker]] (14)
*[[Rumble (G1)|Rumble]] (15)
*[[Laserbeak (G1)|Laserbeak]] (16)
*[[Optimus Prime clone]] (17)
*[[Starscream clone (G1)|Starscream clone]] (29)
|c3=
*[[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Spike Witwicky]] (11)
}}

==Quotes==
"It's just such ignorance which forever relegates you to the ranks of underlings, Starscream!"
:—'''Megatron'''

"All the danger you can handle is already here, Floptimus Prime!"
:—'''Starscream''' comes up with a clever insult.

"I'm sorry there are only three of you. Clobbering less than four Decepticons at a time is boring."
:—'''Optimus Prime'''

''"Laserbeak... you tin-foil turkey!"''
:—'''Optimus Prime''' dishes out the trash talk like a pro.

'''Optimus Prime clone''': Bumblebee, come over here. The computer's not responding to my input.... Bumblebee, I'm speaking to you. 
'''Ironhide''': You talking to me? 
'''Optimus Prime clone''': Of course. 
'''Ironhide''': But I'm not Bumblebee, I'm Ironhide, Prime. 
'''Optimus Prime clone''': I meant Ironhide, naturally.
:—The fake Optimus Prime totally flubs Ironhide's name, even though Ironhide's the only other one there, and the Southern-fried lug still doesn't get it...

"I don't mind hitting the dirt, but I don't enjoy eating it!"
:—'''Gears'''

"Heh-heh! These energy amplifiers are giving Teletraan I exactly the ''wrong'' readings, which are just the '''right''' readings to lure the Autobots back to the crevice, and ''their doom!'' Hruhruhruhruhruhahaha!!"
:—Good-old '''Megatron''' is nothing if not precise.

"No, DO NOT! ARGH, my magnificent creation, vaporized! With Prime's replica destroyed, we must escape, now!"
:—'''Megatron''', not being at all melodramatic.

"Is it really you, Optimus Prime? I mean ''really?''" 
"Yes, Spike. This time I am definitely me. Or I. Myself. Oh, whoever I am. Put 'er there, partner."
:—A cautious but hopeful '''Spike''' questions '''Optimus Prime''', who doesn't do the best job of keeping a sentence together.

==Notes==
===Animation or technical glitches===
* The entire episode has strangely desaturated colors, even the indoor scenes. The outdoor scenes are mostly washed with a dusk-like yellow and blue, even away from the strange light of the crystals.
* Coloring errors:
** When Megatron grabs Starscream, his insignia is gray, he's missing the black "eye liner" above his optics and his dark gray helmet details are colored light gray.
** Soundwave's optics turn white a couple of times, first when ejecting the Autoscout, and then when ejecting Laserbeak for the first time.
** When Megatron orders him to eject Laserbeak, Soundwave's chest is blue instead of light gray. (The subsequent animation of Soundwave turning and ejecting the cassettebot is recycled from the episode's opening scene, and recycled again when Soundwave sends Laserbeak to retrieve Starscream.)
** When the Prime clone is first shown, it is several heads taller than Megatron. They should be the same height.
** Megatron has blue eyes as he tests out his voice control of the clone.
** The clone's eyes are white instead of blue when Ironhide stops the Autobots from destroying Prime.
**Bumblebee's arm briefly changes to gray when he asks Teletraan I who the real Optimus Prime is.
** Starscream sports a red Decepticon [[insignia]] when he objects to Megatron's plan.[[File:Starscream clone G1.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1|So often, in fact, you'd be hard-pressed to get a screencap that didn't show it that way.]]
** Starscream's chest-cockpit is repeatedly colored entirely yellow, missing the bit of gray that it's supposed to have near the bottom. In fact, through the course of the episode, it's colored wrong more frequently than right.
** As he and Spike climb the mountain and spot Laserbeak, Windcharger is sporting a red Decepticon insignia.
** Starscream's eyes turn blue when he dodges Laserbeak's first attack.
** Windcharger's head is a darker gray than his body when he ducks to avoid Laserbeak outside the mountain, and again when Ratchet identifies the fake Prime.
* A strange animation shortcut has Optimus pick up Thundercracker to throw him. The camera angle changes, and suddenly it's Starscream that he's throwing. The next shot shows all three Seekers lying defeated, so it may or may not be an actual error. (The same color/character changing trick is used in "[[The Ultimate Doom, Part 1]]".)
* Improbable viewpoints:
** Does Megatron have a camera that flies alongside Laserbeak to take a video of him? How else to account for the third-person camera angle that he gets on his screen as he talks to Laserbeak? Considering how often Laserbeak himself is dispatched for the purpose of obtaining video footage, this would be ludicrous.
** Megatron seems to have filled the whole valley with [[The Master Builders (episode)|cameras in rocks]]. He's able to keep constant tabs on the battle from a variety of viewpoints, including one head-on shot of the Autobots that travels with them as they run! There's no indication that these are the viewpoints of his troops (one comes right from just a foot or two above ground level.)
* Teletraan I's initial statement ("Detail comparison forthcoming") is strangely muffled, as if coming over an AM radio broadcast.
* Wheeljack's ears don't flash as he says "take your positions".
* After the clone announces that they'll spring any traps that need to be sprung, the real Prime's [[The Search for Alpha Trion|mouthplate disappears]].
* Starscream's arm lasers disappear and reappear as he agrees with Megatron's plan to have the clone destroy a Decepticon.
* Laserbeak makes no transformation sound as he returns to Soundwave's chest compartment.
* When Starscream's clone takes a few steps out of the clone synthesizer, his headgear is colored blatantly white.
* Laserbeak is magically ejected from Soundwave's chest when he starts to chase Windcharger and Spike.
* The animators seem to have forgotten that the [[incredibly tall rocket]] is a ship / base. Soundwave is seen entering the control room through a rocky tunnel.
* The clone Prime, after ordering Jazz to "hit the deck", just stands there for a remarkably long time doing nothing.
* Megatron's gun barrel is dark gray as he orders Starscream to say his line.
* After the fake Starscream is destroyed by the fake Optimus, Starscream is seen standing next to the other Decepticons (it's not even a coloring error as Thundercracker and Skywarp are both standing next to him).
* In a hilariously placed dialogue flub, Optimus calls Trailbreaker "Trailblazer", just as he's trying to convince the Autobots that he's the real Prime.
* A moment later, as Megatron tosses Spike out of the ship, Peter Cullen's delivery of Prime's line makes it sound like Prime is calling Spike "Splick."
* Powerglide catches Spike by swooping beneath him a second before Spike hits the rocks. But slamming into a metal airplane really wouldn't be much better for a human than slamming into the rocky ground.
* Prime's not the only one having personal pronoun troubles in this episode, as Starscream repeatedly says "I" when, to make sense, let alone be grammatically correct, he should be saying "me".

===Continuity errors===
[[File:Primeproblem prime and clone.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1|"I'm the real Optimus Prime, Stick." "It's ''Spike'', Prime. Now if only we could devise a way to figure out who's the real you!"]]
[[File:IncrediblyTallRocket1.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1|The Decepticons already blew through all their camouflage budget.]]
[[File:PrimeProblem Corlonium crystals.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1|Even more powerful than the [[Earth's core|Earth's molten core]]? The [[ruby crystal]]s of Burma? [[Oil]]? Explosive meteorites? Volcanoes? Dr. Arkeville's brain?]]
* The basic premise of the episode—that nobody can tell which Optimus Prime is real—requires all the Autobots (and Spike) to be ''incredibly'' stupid. Nobody thought to take the two Primes into separate rooms and grill them about things only the real Prime would know? Not even ''Prime himself'' thinks to suggest this? Even after Windcharger and Spike observe that something's very wrong with Prime, nobody puts two and two together when the real Prime shows up? The fake Prime's bloodthirsty response doesn't make it flagrantly obvious who's the fake? Nobody thinks to mark one of the Primes to tell them apart? Races and sharpshooting contests are supposed to prove who's who? Nobody gets suspicious at how easily Starscream is utterly annihilated?
** On the other hand, the ''real'' Optimus Prime calls Trailbreaker "Trailblazer" and Spike "Splick," so maybe we should cut the Autobots a little slack.
* Megatron makes it even easier for the Autobots; he calls Ironhide "Bumblebee", despite being able to identify Ironhide by name in "[[The Autobot Run]]", and flagrantly sets himself for discovery by mucking around with Teletraan I, asking ridiculously leading questions of the Autobots, and responding to the real Prime's appearance with an uncharacteristic "KILL IT NOW" reaction.
* Furthermore, why didn't Megatron just have Laserbeak kill, capture or disable Optimus Prime while he was down, thus avoiding all the "two Optimus Primes" trouble in the first place??
* Heck, if it's so easy to make perfect reproductions of the strongest Autobot, why not just make a ton of them and overwhelm the Autobots? Why not just make a ton of [[Megatron Corps|''Megatron'' clones]] and overwhelm the Autobots?
* Megatron describes the crystals as "the most rare and dangerous form of raw energy in this [[solar system]]". More dangerous and rare than [[electro-cell]]s, [[Crystal of Power|Crystals of Power]], the [[Energy crystal|crystals]] on [[Titan (moon)|Titan]], the [[Sun]], etc.? Really?
*It doesn't make much sense that Megatron knows about the korlonium crystals and Starscream doesn't, considering it's established that Starscream is a ''scientist'' and has visited the [[Solar System]] before.
* Though the [[incredibly tall rocket|temporary base]] is mostly camouflaged as a mountain peak, there are some mechanical bits at its base that remain undisguised. Luckily for Megatron, nobody seems to notice.
* "It is Optimus Prime!" declares a shocked Soundwave as the clone is revealed. Was he just not paying attention to what Megatron was doing for the last few minutes, up to and including his saying "Now to begin the '''''cloning''''' process!"?
* As Megatron feeds lines to the newly created clone, the clone's vocal inflections don't really match those of Megatron.
* Megatron should be saying everything that the clone says on-screen, but is silent as the clone first meets up with Jazz and Trailbreaker.
* The cloning machine also somehow manages to clone Prime's trailer even though Prime was scanned in his [[robot mode]].
* After the Decepticons retreat, why does the Prime clone lead the Autobots back to [[Ark (G1)|Autobot Headquarters]], instead of investigating the energy source that drew them there in the first place?
[[File:G1 APrimeProblem Warpath shot.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1|"Hound, do we know that guy?" "Huh? There was a guy?"]]
* Only Jazz and Trailbreaker are seen withdrawing alongside the Prime clone, even though half a dozen Autobots are present at the battle.
* It's only an error retroactively, but when both Primes get X-rayed, neither one possesses the [[Matrix of Leadership]] in his chest cavity. In fact their chest interior design is completely different than the design from [[The Transformers: The Movie|the movie]].
* If the clone is completely remote controlled, then what is clone Optimus Prime doing while Megatron is not wearing his control helmet? (seen several times, such as the beginning of the second battle and when Megatron gloats to Spike.) We never see him passing the helmet to any other Decepticon. The clone's physical motions never seem to correspond to what Megatron is doing, though, so perhaps it just loses the ability to speak.
* The clone's order for Jazz to "hit the deck" is completely useless; Jazz wasn't even remotely in Prime's way. (After this moment of tactical idiocy, Megatron takes a moment to gloat about his "brilliant scenario of Autobot destruction". We dare say this is ''ironic!'')
* Powerglide and Warpath both just show up out of nowhere during the final battle.

===Continuity notes===
[[File:PrimeProblem laserbeak scan.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1|Yeah, that fancy scanning beam and complex mechanical stuff on the camera? Half the episode's art budget, right there.]]
* This episode features the only appearance of the [[Autoscout]], a cassette drone launched by Soundwave.
* Gadgets and powers:
** Laserbeak uses his head-camera once again when he scans Optimus Prime. It sees action in a number of other episodes, as well as the Movie.
* This episode has the first appearances of [[Powerglide (G1)|Powerglide]] and [[Warpath (G1)|Warpath]]. However, no explanation of their origins is made, which is made all the more irksome by the fact that this episode was written by the show's own dang story editors. Warpath gets no lines at all.

===Trivia===
[[File:Autoscout2.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.1|Totally toy-makable. Hasbro, we're waiting!]]
* The episode goes an unusually long time before featuring its first [[scene transition]], which finally comes around the six minute mark.
* Man, Starscream sure is eager to throw away the life of one of his fellow Decepticons, huh? He suggests it be "a trusted officer", which pretty much narrows the selection down to Soundwave (or mayyyybe Reflector). Make of that what you will!
* Laserbeak is pretty hardcore. Optimus is easily able to overpower Starscream, Thundercracker, and Skywarp with his bare hands, yet a few blasts from Laserbeak take him down. Laserbeak also manages to open a pretty nice can of whoop-ass on Starscream when Starscream tries to run away; then he captures Spike and causes Windcharger to fall to his near-death.
* Based on the absurdity of this episode, "WE MUST HAVE A RACE" has become a popular fandom meme any time two things might be remotely confused with one another.

===Foreign localization===
'''Italian'''
:*''Title (dub 1):'' "'''Un problema per Commander'''" ("A Problem for Optimus Prime")
:*''Title (dub 2):'' "'''Un problema per Optimus Prime'''" ("A Problem for Optimus Prime")
:*''Original airdate:'' ?

'''Japanese'''
:*''Title:'' "'''Futari no Convoy'''" (二人のコンボイ, "The Two Convoys")
:*''Original airdate:'' [[December 6]], [[1985]]

==Home video releases==
{{homevidnote}}
;VHS
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 1999 — ''The Original Transformers'' — Volume 1: Prime Threat ([[The Original Transformers|Kid Rhino]])
;[[Wikipedia:LaserDisc|LaserDisc]]
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 1994 — ''Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers'' — Convoy Set ([[TakaraTomy|Takara]]) — Japanese audio only. 
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 1998 — ''The Transformers'' — Autobot Edition ([[Geneon Universal Entertainment|Pioneer LDC]]) — Japanese audio only.
;DVD
[[File:Flag of Japan.png|20px|Japan]] 2001 — ''The Transformers'' — DVD Box 1 (Pioneer LDC) — Japanese audio only. 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2002 — ''The Original Transformers'' — Season 2 Part 1 ([[The Original Transformers|Rhino Entertainment]]) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2002 — ''The Original Transformers'' — Season 2 Part 1: Vol. 2 (Rhino Entertainment) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2003 — ''Transformers'' — Season 2 Part 1 ([[Metrodome]]) 
[[File:Flag of Australia.png|20px|Australia]] 2004 — ''Transformers'' — Collection 2: Series 2.1 ([[Madman Entertainment]]) 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2006 — ''Transformers'' — The Complete Generation One Collection (Metrodome) 
[[File:Flag of Australia.png|20px|Australia]] 2007 — ''The Transformers'' — Complete Collection (Madman Entertainment) 
[[File:Flag of Italy.png|20px|Italy]] 2008 — ''Transformers'' — Volume 03: Stagione Due Parte Prima ([[Medianetwork Communication]]) — English and Italian audio. 
[[File:Flag of UK.png|20px|United Kingdom]] 2009 — ''Transformers'' — Season Two: Part One (Metrodome) 
[[File:Flag of Australia.png|20px|Australia]] 2009 — ''The Transformers'' — Complete Collection: Decepticon Edition (Madman Entertainment) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2009 — ''The Transformers'' — Season Two, Volume One: 25th Anniversary Edition ([[Shout! Factory]]) 
[[File:Flag of USA.png|20px|United States of America]] 2009 — ''The Transformers'' — The Complete Series: 25th Anniversary "Matrix of Leadership" Collection (Shout! Factory)

==External links==
*[http://cybertronchronicle.com/cartoon-dossier/season-2/synopses/700-26.html Episode Dossier at The Cybertron Chronicle]

{{DEFAULTSORT:Prime Problem}}
[[Category:The Transformers episodes]]
[[Category:Generation 2 episodes]]
[[Category:MSTF]]

User:Markatron

2015-08-02T03:12:36Z

Markatron: Created page with "I am a Transformers fan who is here for the same reason you are."

I am a Transformers fan who is here for the same reason you are.

Talk:Ruined FOREVER

2015-08-02T03:09:40Z

Markatron:

==Regarding deletion==
I see no point to having this article. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 07:11, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:There are 4 instances of Ruined Forever on [[Transformers timeline|this page]] alone. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:16, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

::I see no point to having those, either. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 07:20, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:::JaAm has a page. 'Ruined Forever' is used ironically within the fandom- and this is clearly marked as a fandom article just like [[True fan]] is. Ruined Forever is clearly more prominent than [[Dull surprise]], though possibly not as widely as [[Neon]]. (Which now that I look at it need its opening quote reformatted...) My entire impetus for creating it was that Sntint made an ironic Ruined Forever joke on a talk page and I was like- "huh, why dont' we have a page for that?" (Well, also I wanted to wash the bad tast of [[Don Murphy|Don Murray]] out of my brain.)
:::Ruined Forever appears to rest comfortably within the range of existing articles on the Wiki, but I am content to allow others to decide. If a majority think it's not relevant to Transformers the article can be deleted, as always. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:37, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
::::I say it's as relevant as Playskool, neon, and FIRRIB. {{unsigned|Terrocon Blot}}
:::::And Derik on the rebound to make me feel dumber. It's not enough that I misspelled my own screenname, he's also got to sign my posts for me. Damn that Derik. YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWN. --[[User:Terrocon Blot|Terrocon Blot]] 07:49, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I vote for keeping the page. As already stated, a number of other pages already exist to explain similar fandom colloquialisms. --[[User:Sntint|Sntint]] 13:20, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:I don't see this article as explaining anything. It seems to exist purely to ridicule fandom behavior that we don't like, and thus I see no point to keeping it. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 19:35, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I think it needs to stay too. Where else would terms like ''Ruined FOREVER'', [[Furmanism]], and Chewed caramels be documented for all time, if not here?--[[User:Evil-yuusha|Evil-yuusha]] 14:59, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:Do these fandom terms need to be ones that are famous/infamous, known or used widely? Then how about TFW2005's 'HE TELL ME' (in reference to that guy who claimed Peter Cullen was cast as RID Prime)? TFW2005 is probably the most prominent of the Transformers fan sites, as well as the one that Hasbro seems to unofficially prefer. I personally never even heard of 'dull surprise' until I read it on this wiki. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 20:49, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
::Nor I. But I don't think we're just documenting memes-- each of these articles, Truk !Munky, Chewed caramels even JaAm are 'about' a belief/response/tendency in fandom- not just the phrase used to illustrate it. Dull Surprise is a belief the masturbatory praise heaped on Superstar Funana was undeserved, JaAm is about the backlash against Dreamwave's style-over-sanity lack of visual storytelling, Truk not Monkey encompasses both knee-jerk hatred of BW and frustration about knee-jerks, and Chewed caramels ''seems'' to be about a desire that all TF toylines subscribe to some broad interpretation of G1's design aesthetic. I doubt anyone put ''conscious thought'' into this, but the fandom-meme articles people found worthy of creating aren't ''just'' about the phrase- they're about phrases that expresses something larger about how fans relate to Transformers.
::(I'm not familiar with 'HE TELL ME' and where it may fall with this.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:21, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:::Personally, I think dull surprise is way too limited in use (basically just #wiigii! as far as I know) to really belong here, but Derik does sort of have a point about the article being about a little more than that. I also don't know "HE TELL ME" but it sounds like something worth considering -- claims of unnamed inside sources and all that. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 01:27, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

::::Oops, it was actually Peter Cullen as Armada Prime. The posts (being from 2002), no longer exists, but fortunately blitz_64 managed to save the posts for posterity [http://www.geocities.com/blitz_64/HETELLME.html The Saga of HE TELL ME and GoOP].

::::Actually, Steve-o, I'd say "Secret Inside Sources" would be a more appropriate meme/article to describe that last one. Having never heard of "HE TELL ME", and seeing that few others apparently have either, I'm not sure it's as much a meme as "Secret Inside Sources" is.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 13:45, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

::::Around the same period, I recall some other idiot who claimed to be a Hasbro photographer and described crazy things like the Mini-Cons becoming body armour and Prime's minicon transforming into his Matrix. These claims, while totally false, were important because they apparently spurred Aaron to emerge as ORSON and totally destroy that other dude, IIRC. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:28, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
:::::I remember that quite vividly indeed. The guy who claimed to be the photographer actually revealed himself over [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=26415&st=20&p=551756&#entry551756 at the Allspark this year], actually. Oh yeah, and I think the animu thing was 4Chan leakage [http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=animu].--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 05:46, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I say we keep it. [[User:Compy-Rex|Compy-Rex]] 18:55, 16 March 2008 (UTC)Compy-Rex
:If this page is deleted I will cry. [[User:(Undecided)|(Undecided)]] 05:14, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

==Usage==
Has "ruined forever" ever been used seriously by fans? While it describes a real and annoying sentiment, I'm not sure I like basing an article on a phrase that was sarcastic in the first place. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 18:26, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:Seconded. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 18:32, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:I'm sure something very similar, at least, has been used. But regardless, you say that it describes a real sentiment, so, what's the problem? Can you recommend a better title for the article? Or are you saying the article shouldn't exist at all? --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 19:08, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
::Well, my vote is for not existing at all. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 19:22, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
::: I (and a number of others) used to think "Rapeing my childood" was only used for sarcastic reasons. Then I read the thread on the promo poster for Transformers Animated, which had a number or people using the seriously. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 20:30, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:Has Trukk not Munky ever been used in a non Ironic/Sarcastic way? It's still a catchphrase used by the fandom, as is this. Both rate articles under the fandom category, IMo.--[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 20:24, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

:The '''scream your head off in outraged panic''' / '''call for mass-firings or send death threats over something that has/will ruin/ed TF''' ''behavior'' of this article certainly was in evidence during Beast Machines- and I think the "sky is falling" aspect is amply evidenced by the sheer ''number'' of times fans have declared TF ruined forever. (And, clearly, been wrong every time, or every time but 1 depending on your belief system.)
:If you have some other title you'd prefer for this article like 'Clicken-Little Syndrome' by all means propose it and see what people think, but the article speaks to a genuine (and highly mockable) aspect of fandom psychology.
:And frankly, while the ''behavior'' itself is worthy of ridicule, the ''reason'' for it- an exaggerated concern for the health and future of the brand- is actually kinda ''endearing'' and speaks well of fans. At least their ''hearts'' are in the right place. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:32, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

==Paul Dini==

I think accusing the fandom of saying the art style of Paul Dini ''the writer'' being used for Animated will "RUIN TRANSFORMERS FOREVER" is making the article simply too mean-spirited. I've never seen any individual display the idiocy we're accusing the fandom of with that line. -[[User:Rotty|Rotty]] 05:40, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I have.
Scary, scary stuff.

Also, the last line of the entry seems to cut a little into the humor by overexplaining. Replace it with a "general hasbro idiocy" linking to "transformers" or somesuch?

==Marked for deletion.==

This is getting out of hand.

This page has become the epicenter of an edit war that has gone on for nearly a week now. As of the time of this writing, only six other pages link to this article. While I fully support the light tone of Teletraan I, and I understand that some explanation of aspects of the fandom complete the Wiki, I believe this particular article and debate at this point only detracts from the issue.

I DO agree that it was biased in the form in which it existed before our anonymous editor "friend" decided to change it, but I do not think that matters any longer. This article does not add anything inherently positive to the wiki, indeed, it does not chronicle anything positive ''or'' negative about Transformers itself at all. Its relation to Transformers is tangential at best.

By deleting this, we would not lose anything except the beginnings of what appear to be the modern equivalent of a Usenet flamewar. Deleting it, I believe, can only benefit Teletraan I. --[[User:Sntint|Sntint]] 12:16, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

:I whole-heartedly agree. [[User:Detour|Detour]] 12:23, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
::I agree. I didn't feel this article was necessary, and I still don't. I agree that the fandom is full of idiots who never bothered to grow up after 1986, but our mockery of them doesn't belong in the wiki. Not to say that Mister "integrity of the characters" is right, though. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 12:30, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:::I'm putting in a vote for keeping it. It's a fun article to read, and it speaks a lot of truth in it's wonderfully snarky way.--[[User:Gouki|Gouki]] 12:32, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
::::Snarkyness can be fun but this article is just pushing it, IMO. [[User:Detour|Detour]] 12:38, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::I think it should stay, it's funny. Also, if you delete it then the terrorists win.
::::::I would keep it. I think it describes a real sentiment, that needs to be pointed out as overblown. [[User:JW|JW]] 13:55, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
The edit war was only between registered users and a single unregistered dude. I've fixed things, at least for the moment, by protecting the page from unregistered editors. If you're gonna get in a pissy editing war, we'd damn well better know who you are. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:26, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:Our anonymous friend is from the Netherlands, if anybody cares. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 14:33, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

This "Ruined FOREVER" article is stupid and don't make any sense. Its just shit

: [[Seafood Louis]]. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:00, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if the opinion of an anon means anything, but I think this article is freaking hilarious. I was talking with a friend about TF:Animated and he said that the girl with the transforming bike 'ruined it permanently' so I linked him this article. He laughed and said, 'ok, well maybe I'm over-reacting.'

I think the article is funny and provides valuable perspective. {{unsigned|66.167.253.76}}
: Well said, citizen. [[User:JW|JW]] 16:23, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
:Well, you've cancelled out the other anon from earlier, at any rate. And yeah, I agree with your assessment of it.--[[User:Andrusi|Andrusi]] 22:43, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
:Same --[[User:Chiasaur11|Chiasaur11]]

I happen to think this article is incredibly useful in charting the tendency for all fans everywhere (but especially TF fans) to react in comical and hyperbolic ways. I think the breadth of what people determine can/has ruined TF forever automatically makes the article an amusing and insightful look for the novice fan into the fandom's reactionary past.

Indeed, I actually have shown this article to people just coming back (or getting into) TF. It's inspired about as many laughs as it has genuine curiosity as to what the fandom and franchise are like as entities. Isn't that the idea of this wiki? I would think reference materials as to the history of the fandom, good and bad, are always a boon.

(and that aside, I just think it's really, really funny)

.... Aaaaaaand I had to go and screw up. Bah. That's me above. --[[User:Cmdr Crayfish|Cmdr Crayfish]] 10:24, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

==Where do we draw the line?==
How do we stop this from becoming just a giant list of everything that anyone has ever expressed any dislike for ever? Why, for instance, is ''The Beast Within'' in there? Or Gonzo (which I thought was generally accepted as at least ''better'' than We've, even if not as good at Mainframe)? - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 18:34, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:I've kinda been watching this list grow with some mild irritation- it went from about 1 item for every 2 years to ''twice'' that in fairly short order, and that bothers me.
:I've sorta resolved to edit the list down this October, pruning it (so to speak) with some opportunity for people to say what should stay and what should go.
:The Beast Within has to stay though- at the ''very'' least it ruined the Dinobots forever- now whenever George Rodd brings up combiner Dinobots we have to grudgingly admit they're canon. Also, it was the reason for the article's creation in the first place. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:58, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
::Why wait? If we want this to be a list of developments that prompted widespread fury that lingered for years, we can shorten it to "Actionmasters, BW, BM, Armada, Hallit, and Bay," and perhaps a few others, right now. Then a "Trivia" note saying that The Beast Within really DID ruin Transformers, or at least Dinobots, forever. Just a thought... but yeah, having every single series in there dilutes the point. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 19:12, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Problem is, how do you decide what deserves to be listed as ruining TF forever, if none of it really did in the first place. I've seen just about everything listed there used as an example of why ____ TF series/movie/toyline will fail--[[User:Carrion|Carrion]] 20:15, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Also, Thy, I'd append your list with a general "*-masters" thing, as a lot of armchair CEOs claim that the entire -master trend killed the line, not the fact that it had, you know, run its course. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 14:03, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
:::I'll just basically agree with Thy and Hoop that whatever's listed here should have a certain "endurance" as a scapegoat. The turnaround of opinion on Animated was what, two weeks? "* Masters" certainly counts, as should Pretenders. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 14:35, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

:::What, a simple a Google newsgroup search for [http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22killed+transformers%22&start=10&sa=N&scoring=d&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&|"killed transformers"] ain't enough? /:] -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 05:15, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

:I doubt I'd get objections if I added it, but I'd like to throw it by the community: Should we readd [[Transformers: Kiss Players (franchise)|Kiss Players]]? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 04:53, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

::I really think Animated should stay in there, if only because it's '''such a dramatic departure.''' Turn around was fast, but the initial reaction was strong. I mean, for the first time in fifteen years of being a fan, I actually found myself muttering "My god... they've finally done it. It's ruined..." --[[User:70.190.251.10|70.190.251.10]] 05:07, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

beast wars didnt reuin tf beast machines sorta did but it was still quite good ,if u ignore some minor things - Unsigned post by [[User:80.6.180.141|80.6.180.141]]
:You're missing the point of the article, then. The point is that every time something new comes along, the fandom screams about how it will ruin Transformers forever, when in reality it's usually the opposite. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 22:16, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

==Last Deletion Locked in?==
Spotted a couple of points on the list removed by [[Special:Contributions/Teletraan|someone who seems to like deleting stuff just because]], but when I tried to restore the page, it was already locked. Were his edits accepted, then?--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 15:30, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
:There are two facets to this. First, without occasional pruning, the list in this article tends to grow, and grow, and grow. Every now and then, someone has to come along and cut it back. Since this is a wiki, the question of what gets cut is made by the person willing to do the cutting.
:The second facet is that the items cut were in fact less core to the "ruined forever" concept. "Runined forever" is a cry that springs up whenever ''something new is added to the Transformers brand'' by HasTak, and it happens every single time. Thus, the fans ''can't'' ruin TF forver, because they don't add new canon. And, while HasTak ''can'' ruin TF forever, it's because they're the only ones who can do so. I.e., one of the cut items was in error, and one was redundant. [[User:JW|JW]] 15:54, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
::Fair enough, I suppose. It was a combination of both the deletions and the person who committed them that made me question their validity.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 17:00, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
:::Yah, user Teletraan is not exactly a primo contributor. Still, this particular edit seems (at minimum) defensible. [[User:JW|JW]] 17:03, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

==Masters of the Universe link==
I've never, ever been interested in MOTU, so I have no idea what was the cause of the revamp line's failure, but given the extreme slant of the article, I can only assume it failed because it concentrated on collectors rather than kids. If so, why does it link to a Wikipedia article that cites Mattel's ''"excessive focus on attempting to mass-market the line to a new generation of children rather than focusing on a safer collector-based approach"'' as the reason for the line's failure? Am I missing something or does that sound like the line tanked because it focused on selling toys to kids rather than what this article is railing against? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 11:09, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
: Guess who wrote the Wikipedia article. (Hint: It wasn't kids.) [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 12:04, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

:: The fact is the line failed, no one can say *exactly* why. There are reasons for both oppinions.

::'''Fact:''' The line DID court fans rather than kids in many ways. It didn't reinvent the boat but took the exact looks, exact characters, and in some cases even exact stories the fans clamored for and did them again, only better, prettier, smarter, and more "realisticly". In that respect it was pretty much EXACTLY what older fans of '80s properties clamor for, and said fans generally loved it. But for whatever reason it never caught on with '''actual kids''' in the way the simple, campy, primitive, bowlegged original did. So some see that and blame the line's failure on the older fan mentality.

::'''Also Fact:''' Mattel tried to sell the toyline the way they had Batman. I.E. A million goofy variations on He-man and Skelator (and one or two others) and everyone else was almost impossible to find or didn't get a figure at all. This was very much NOT what collectors wanted. Many blame it for the line's failure at retail, arguing that part of what made the original a hit where the huge variety of strange and different warriors and monsters that Mattel had left out this time in favor of flooding the shelves with He-man repaints and ill-concieved alterations (The entire wave of "samori repaints on stilts" is often pointed to, but are only one of many examples.) Some see this and blame an ill-concieved inapropriate retail stratagy aimed at marketing to kids having crippled the line's retail appeal.

::Personally I think there's some truth to BOTH. For whatever reason (timing, approach, luck,) the older fan oriented cartoon never clicked with the kiddies, '''AND''' the Batman-style retail stratagy was a bad choice for a MOTU type toyline. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 14:17, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

:::Yes, that was the feeling I got, that is there is no clear cut side to 'blame', and in this case, I think we should ditch the Masters of the Universe link, given the information there contradicts the slant of this article, and in any case it's not a clear cut case of 'it's all the collectors fault'. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:32, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
::::Hrm, there's some legitimate thought there... but it ruins the G.I. Joe comparison. (Why catering to adult collectors and abandoning attempts at reinvention is a losing strategy in the long run necause ther old dudes die off and uyou're not bringing new fans in.)
::::For what it's worth, I meant from design and marketing- I agree that the actual toyline was schitzophrenic- alternating between a slavish adherence to the original designs and case assortments aimed at kida who weren't watching the cartoon.-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:45, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::Here's an idea - how about one of you guys (who actually know about MOTU) edit the wikipedia article so it's more balanced, so we don't end up looking like idiots in this article? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 17:30, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I think it's worth noting that even in today's environment, the military has ''some'' pull to kids. Not so much the gay, gay fur-bikini barbarians. Sword-and-sorcery has some appeal nowadays, but mostly when it's very Japanesey kids-anime-style. (One could also note that the "big" Joe revival frankly isn't very big. It's pretty damn low-key, really, where He-Man was some major-league THIS WILL BE BIG!!! Lower expectations = greater chance of meeting and exceeding them.) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 17:06, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah, I'd also imagine that production costs on the 25th anniversary Joe figs are pretty darn reasonable on Hasbro's bookkeeping. They've done similar lines for Star Wars for decades, so they know what they're doing.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 17:10, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
::I'm really annoyed that the GI Joe 25th line isn't available here, because Hasbro AU's last attempt to revive GI Joe in Australia totally tanked. If you can believe it, Toys R Us stores here languished under piles of unsold Cobra Trooper 6-packs, which, as I've read in forums, collectors were fighting over. They're not on pegs anymore, so I guess they've been shredded or incinerated by now.--[[User:FFN|FFN]] 17:28, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

So have we decided on this link yet? The Wikipedia link still contradicts the snarky joke link of this article. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:38, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
:It's always going to, because there will always, ''always'' be enough people who are going to make sure that the bullshit boogeyman "CASE RATIOS!! CASE RATIOS!!! KIDS WANTED ALL THOSE OBSCURE ONE-EPISODE GUYS AND USELESS MINOR VILLANS!!!!!" (while patently ignoring the fact that if you can't sell your ''two primary characters in the line'', maybe there's something wrong with your franchise, not case ratios... it'd be like if a Batman line couldn't sell toys of Batman) is squarely blamed for MOTU's failure. Frankly, I'd say just add a note to OUR article saying "ignore the bullshit about case ratios. Kids just didn't want a line about a boring gay man in a fur bikini." --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 15:19, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

::Ignoring your general disdain for He-man here, and even the whole case ratio issue, the fact remains that saying (as our snark does) that the newer He-man line "catered exclusively to older collectors" and that this caused its failure is both unprovable, AND very widely disputed. I'd say we should remove the link on those issues alone. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 15:35, 21 February 2008 (UTC) (-'''Edit:''' On a side-note, given the apparent success of the 25th ann. line and the coming movie, the critical G.I.Joe link in there may soon be meaninglessly out of date as well...)

:::And this is my point - we'll start looking like idiots who can't even get our facts or jokes straight if we insist on keeping these links. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 08:28, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
:::I see Zac's point- but I think he's reacting to something that's not in the article. We're holding the MOTU reboot as an example of a line that abandoned all attempt at reinvention. Since there ''was'' not reinvention in the reboot line, at all, this should not be up for dispute.
:::We do not say that this is ''why'' the line failed. It probably ''was'', but we don't say that. We merely hold it up as an apporach that's probably unhealthy for Transformers to follow.
:::So to be really blunt-- I don't care what whiny fanboys may have edited Wikipedia to say in support of their view that the line was perfect and viable the way it was. '''A)''' That's masturbatory. '''B)''' It's not what this article is talking about, so it's simply not relevant. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:00, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
::::But it says 'cater exclusively to the old-school collectors', which the line evidently did not do. In which case, regardless of if we are holding up as an approach that TF should not follow, it's not a good example in the context of the very joke-link, especially if it sends the reader to an article that disputes the joke. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:28, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
::::In this context, that 'catering' refers to design, not case assortments. We're discussing ''reinvention''. One does not 'reinvent' case assortments! And in terms of designs, characters etc... MOTU ''did'' cater. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:31, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::More to the point- we're discussing changign the content on ''this'' page because highly dubious artument on Wikipedia disagrees with something ''we're not even saying here''.
:::::If Wikipedia had a bullshit argument we were actually refuting I might kinda understand this. But we're not! We are actually arguing about removing a link to an article because fanboys have jizzed across it in ways that contradict things our article ''doesn't'' say, but which 'might run through that same fanboy's mind as they read our article.'
:::::While '''I''' clearly feel the fanboy argument is specious-at-best '''it doesn't matter'''. We say it catered to collectors. That's it! '''It's just an example of one extreme a toyline can take.''' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:40, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

== Why? ==

Why is The [[Transformers: Armada (franchise)|Armada]] series , [[Beast Wars: Transformers (franchise)|Beast Wars]] series, the [[The Transformers: The Movie|Movie]], and [[Exclusive]]s listed here?[[User:Autobot Soundwave|Autobot Soundwave]] 19:12, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
:Because fans reacted [[Trukk not munky|very]] [[Pokeformers|negatively]] to a lot of these things, which went on to become major successes. It's satire. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 19:15, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
:Because they ruined Transformers forever, of course.--[[User:Carrion|Carrion]] 19:16, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

== Adding to the list ==

The Cliff Notes version: there's very little reason to.

The full version: Contrary to what [http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Ruined_FOREVER many people think], this is not a list of [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Ruined_FOREVER everything Transformers ever]. It is not even a list of everything Transformers that fans have ever complained about. It is a list of the relative handful of times that something ground-shaking and new has come along, something totally different from what's gone before, something that's not exactly like 1984, that causes people to complain that Transformers has irrevocably jumped the shark and begun sinking into an irreversible oblivion. All this doomsaying is then typically followed by the franchise surging back to life as the awful horrible new thing turns out to be a smashing success. Alternately, the horrible new thing quietly fades away while the franchise chugs along to the next new thing.

Thing is, anybody who's stuck with Transformers to this point is used to these reinventions. Perspective has grown long enough that plenty of fans now understand that anything they don't like will be gone in a year or two. Maybe I'm biased 'cause I only read the Allspark boards and they're fairly intelligent, but cries of RUINED FOREVER are increasingly rare these days.

I don't see why Drift is on the list. Plenty of people think he sucks, but nobody's claiming he's going to bring down the whole franchise. ''All Hail Megatron'' would be a better candidate, because people (including myself!) ''are'' claiming that IDW's whole storyline has been permanently destroyed by it. (You could also make a case for ''Energon'' ("bad anime"), ''Prime Directive'' ("MATURE ADULT XXX" or "Buckets of Blood" or "Pat Lee"), and/or Dreamwave ("The Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man", "Superstars", "Bankruptcy").

I don't see why stolen prototypes are on the list. Yeah, some of us make a fuss over them. Y'know why? Because HASBRO THEMSELVES HAS SAID THEY ARE A THREAT TO THEIR BUSINESS. There's no ridiculously overblown grasping-at-straws fandom absurdity to mock here.

And I'd need to see a LOT of linked posts before I'd accept ROTF on the list. I can't fathom someone having complaints about ROTF that didn't also apply to the first movie. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 12:10, 25 June 2009 (EDT)

:There are new complaints about ROTF - about [[Mudflap (ROTF)|these]] [[Skids (ROTF)|two]].--[[Special:Contributions/172.162.17.159|172.162.17.159]] 08:34, 10 August 2009 (EDT)
::I agree with Repowers 100%. If anything, I think the list could use some trimming. Are people complaining about the Twins? Sure! Is ANYONE saying that Transformers, as a franchise, is over/tainted? Umm ... not that I've heard. Certainly no substantial block of the fandom.
::And stolen prototypes, while I DO think people make a somewhat biggish deal about them, don't really belong on the list either. A: as Repowers points out, Hasbro itself has legitimized the concern. B: people getting annoyed about something is NOT the same as saying that the Transformers brand is beyond recovery. Hell, even AHM seems like a stretch. I think that most of the fandom has gained enough hindsight to know that, at worst, AHM represents a change in direction for *IDW'S* story, but certainly not the end of Transformers as we know it. Hell, ROTF and Animated were contemporary, and both were tremendous successes.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 09:48, 10 August 2009 (EDT)

I'm not sure we we can't have Energon on this list, seeing all the complaints on this very wiki, but, eh.--[[User:Spin-Out|Spin-Out]] 08:00, 14 September 2009 (EDT)
:I disagree. I've read on here that people LIKED it at first, but eventually lost faith/the will to live after watching it. The list chronicles the events which work the OTHER way around. [[User:Metal Gear NOIZE|Metal Gear NOIZE]] 09:07, 14 September 2009 (EDT)
::Yeah, I'd say the list has nothing to do with how good something is, but more with complaints from the fandom and especially even before the thing in question has been released. Having said that, does RiD really warrant a place on the list? Was there really that much of a commotion about it? -[[User:Mazenoise|Mazenoise]] 10:10, 14 September 2009 (EDT)
:::I'm surprised "G1 Bayformers", aka Don Figueroa's new drawing style isn't on this list, given that almost every single opinion on it I found was a flame.....--[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:30, 14 September 2009 (EDT)
::::I loath it to the core of my petty, petty being... but i don't see it as something that will kill or taint the franchise. Kiss-Player is still squicking people ''years'' later... the fact the Japanese owners basically licensed TF loli guro porn is something that genuinely shocks people and lessens their opinion of TF as a whole-- especially since it's not one of those 'worse than it sounds' things, the closer you look, the more disturbing it actually gets. An unpleasant art style inflicted on the comparatively small comic-book audience... just isn't in the same ballpark.
::::I think it's harmed ''IDW'''s Transformers brand equity... people seem a lot more skeptical and a lot more negative of editorially-generated jerking around of the TF brand, because they've now repeatedly dumped directions they committed to in order to chase imaginary gains that never materialized-- apparently heedless of the negative baggage piled on the story in the process. (One more major reset in pursuit of some sort of magical deckchair configuration the editors are convinced is more important than telling good stories... and I might as well be reading DC!) But not the brand overall. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:46, 13 October 2009 (EDT)
:::::Not to get all chat roomy here, but... what he said. Oh dear lord, WHAT HE SAID. (Derik, have you posted that sentiment to IDW's boards?) -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 19:49, 13 October 2009 (EDT)

==How about that B.O.T episode==

To many fans, it's considered to be the worst G1 episode ever, so I think it should be placed here. [[User:Dinoman96|Dinoman96]] 17:23, 23 November 2009 (EST)
:Yea, but this isn't a list of what people just call "bad" - it's a list of the things that threw the fandom into a colossal uproar and actually caused people to say Transformers was ruined forever, more for the fact that they were drastically or outlandishly new and different than for their actually being of poor quality. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 17:46, 23 November 2009 (EST)

==Drift==
Shouldn't we add [[Drift (G1)| this Mary Sue]] to Runied FOREVER? {{unsigned|24.62.9.241}}
:No. He hasn't ruined anything forever. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:55, 17 August 2010 (EDT)
:Maybe you should read the page above before you add to it. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:02, 18 August 2010 (EDT)

==A quick question (not about adding additional items)...==

Anyone else think that a funnier name for ''Prime'' would be Bayformers Teen Titans? I ask because we've got Bayformers and Teen Titans on the list, and Bayformers Animated kind of throws off the flow. [[User:Ratbatman|Ratbatman]] 20:03, 16 December 2010 (EST)
:To me at least, "Bayformers Animated" flows much better than "Bayformers Teen Titans". --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 20:04, 16 December 2010 (EST)
::A fair point. I meant it more in the manner of fitting with what else was in the article. Not a big deal either way, I suppose. [[User:Ratbatman|Ratbatman]] 20:12, 16 December 2010 (EST)

== Parodies of this page in other media ==

Just in case you didn't noticed it, this page has been parodied several times and in different media:

* http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DarthWiki/RuinedFOREVER (As noted, this wiki is the trope namer for "Ruined FOREVER")
* http://www.queenzone.com/forums/1224448/ruined-forever.aspx
* http://www.helloweenboard.com/topic/4063-seven-sinner-discussion-thread/page__view__findpost__p__336072
* http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47999&page=1
* http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Ruined_FOREVER
* http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/warmachine/163237-blight-spreading-nites-cryx-blog.html#post1416664
* http://halofanon.wikia.com/wiki/Halo:_Ruined_FOREVER
{{unsigned|201.212.60.105}}

:I love how the Wookiepedia people completely missed the point. [[User:Ratbatman|Ratbatman]] 12:40, 18 May 2011 (EDT)
::...their version seems basically the same sarcastic treatment as ours. Are you reading a different page? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 12:43, 18 May 2011 (EDT)
:::They seemed a lot more concerned with insignificant detail than this wiki is. However, in retrospect, "completely missed the point" was a bit strong on my part. Maybe the Star Wars fandom is more temperamental than we are? [[User:Ratbatman|Ratbatman]] 12:49, 18 May 2011 (EDT)
::::"''MAYBE''", he says! :D - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 12:54, 18 May 2011 (EDT)
: Not really parodies, more just... versions. [[User:Esser-Z|Esser-Z]] 11:40, 29 December 2011 (EST)
::Adaptations. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:54, 29 December 2011 (EST)

== Literal for once ==

Pat Lee. --[[Special:Contributions/96.225.181.135|96.225.181.135]] 21:31, 16 April 2012 (EDT)
: Transformers survived him, so not really literally, no. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:00, 16 April 2012 (EDT)
:: The franchise as a whole, but not Dreamwave. Or his reputation. --[[Special:Contributions/96.225.181.135|96.225.181.135]] 21:17, 17 April 2012 (EDT)
::: Not the point of the page. --[[User:King Starscream|King Starscream]] 21:20, 17 April 2012 (EDT)

== Autobots who didn't turn into cars ==

[http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-general-discussion/615489-what-characters-killed-g1.html Transformers was ruined FOREVER in 1985!] Seriously.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 14:39, 17 June 2012 (EDT)
:TFW2005 ruined Transformers forever.--[[User:Carrion|Carrion]] 15:07, 17 June 2012 (EDT)

== Dark of the Moon ==
*The first and second movies by Michael bay are on the list, but why not the third. Lots of people complained about the third one. [[User:Black rhino ranger|Black rhino ranger]] 07:49, 11 August 2012 (EDT)
::Getting on this page takes more than simple complaints. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 08:16, 11 August 2012 (EDT)

== Rescue Bots ==
I propose adding rescue bots to this list, only listed as rescue heroes, or Eureka. [[User:Bookwormdalek|Bookwormdalek]] 20:26, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
:...but it's universally beloved. Surely no Transformers fan could hate ''fun''?! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 15:51, 12 December 2012 (EST)
::While I agree that in moderation fun is enjoyable, its creation did cause the standard "Ruined FOREVER" response that would deem it necessary to add to the page in the best interests of keeping an accurate database. [[User:Bookwormdalek|Bookwormdalek]] 18:29, 30 June 2013 (EDT)
:::...Which died down about a week later, with only the few stubborn mules of the fandom remaining intolerant of it. This list contains things that have had lasting backlash that ran deep. Rescue Bots never got such deep-filled hatred as the things covered by this list. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 01:09, 1 July 2013 (EDT)

== Windblade ==
Given the kerfuffle a certain segment of the fanbase made over Windblade, ahould she and/or her series be added to this list? And if so, as what? [[User:Nemesis Primal|Nemesis Primal]] ([[User talk:Nemesis Primal|talk]]) 22:10, 20 April 2014 (EDT)
:This is just me, but I'd say we wait a bit more and see how her series and its portrayal of her character are received first. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 22:22, 20 April 2014 (EDT)
::You know this fandom better than I do... I'm not always active in forums or anything... so I'll defer to your judgement. But from what I heard, the drama got really stupid at some points. [[User:Nemesis Primal|Nemesis Primal]] ([[User talk:Nemesis Primal|talk]]) 21:45, 21 April 2014 (EDT)
:::The loudmouths are a minority at this point, people are being really vocal about how much they're enjoying the book. People are being mixed about whether they like the writing or the art more, but in general I'm seeing a favorable response to the art and an appreciation for its snappy writing. [[User:Antimatter|Antimatter]] ([[User talk:Antimatter|talk]]) 22:06, 21 April 2014 (EDT)
::::IMO the drama was less to do with Windblade and more about the "brief conflict" between Scott and Furman referenced on ''Spotlight: Arcee'''s page - the worst criticism of Windblade I've seen is that she's kinda dull so far (and that was from me). I remember Drift raising far more ire when he was introduced and Drift isn't listed here. --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee|talk]]) 02:58, 23 April 2014 (EDT)
:::::That's because IDW shilled Drift as "super cool" and that he'd be "their Wolverine". Windblade, on the other hand, wasn't shilled as a super cool "Wolverine", which is probably why she's been received better than Drift was.[[User:Spin-Out|Spin-Out]] ([[User talk:Spin-Out|talk]]) 21:11, 1 May 2014 (EDT)

== Japanese-exclusive G1/Modern-era Cartoons ==
I was wondering: is anyone willing to add The Headmasters and/or Transformers Go! in it? ([[User talk:FigureGunplaFan|talk]]) 00:33, 28th May 2014 (MYT)
:Given that they've never been accused of Ruining Transformers Forever in any way... no. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 13:12, 27 May 2014 (EDT)
::I'm under the impression that most of the things that were never translated and made widely agailable to the Enlish-speaking fandom just didn't make much of an impression on them beyond "Hey, that guy looks cool/lame" ("Kiss Players" and the controversy it stirred up probably being the big exception), and that "Go!" in particular is not so much reviled as it is simply not noticed. And as I don't speak Japanese, I couldn't begin to speculate upon how something like "Beast Wars Neo" or "15 Go! Go!" was recieved in its native land.--[[User:Nemesis Primal|Nemesis Primal]] ([[User talk:Nemesis Primal|talk]]) 19:33, 5 July 2014 (EDT)

== Masterpiece Star Saber's English-language bio for the Australian release ==

Wow, the nerdrage over a little bonus addition for a limited run official import of a Japanese toy that references established IDW fiction is ''amazing''. If that bio doesn't ruin Transformers FOREVER, nothing can.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 18:11, 4 February 2015 (EST)
:As always, my instinct in a situation like this is to wait for at least 3-4 months to see if there is widespread and sustained griping. Many people want to find a way to include, well, virtually everything on this page, and most TF franchises just don't get that level of sustained vitriol to warrant inclusion.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 23:20, 4 February 2015 (EST)
::I don't think we even need to be that conservative. Nobody is going to claim that one regional release of one toy has ''ruined the entire Transformers franchise''. There's no new innovation or franchise re-invention going on here. It's just one bio on one toy and some people raging for a day or two.
::As I've said before, RUINED FOREVER is not just "BUHR ME FAN HATE THING". It's "This new and different thing means that Transformers cannot and will not ever be good again" (add "because new things are bad" as needed), followed by Transformers surviving, thriving, and continuing to be good. In this age of live action movies, there's not much left that can shake the franchise to its core like that. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] ([[User talk:Repowers|talk]]) 00:04, 5 February 2015 (EST)

== DOTM Soundwave and Wheeljack cancelled in USA ==

Is that ruined forever? Many fans compalined about them cancelled and how they got too many Bumblebees.[[User:Pat|Pat]] ([[User talk:Pat|talk]]) 06:43, 10 February 2015 (EST)
:No, that is not "ruined forever". Ruined Forever is large scale complaining about things that have supposedly irredeemably damaged the brand. And the complaining has to continue for a long period of time. Fans were upset about this, but it didn't drag on for years and years. Or even months and months. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 06:52, 10 February 2015 (EST)

== Autobot Megatron ==

Alot of fans were really upset with Megatron joining the autobots...That can be considered as a `RUINED FOREVER".
[[User:Hyruk|Hyruk]] ([[User talk:Hyruk|talk]]) 16:21, 10 February 2015 (EST)
:This doesn't sound like something that happened. --[[User:Nu-Priest|Nu-Priest]] ([[User talk:Nu-Priest|talk]]) 18:13, 10 February 2015 (EST)
::Megatron never joined the Autobots ([[Megatron (SG)|though there is a mirrorverse Megatron of course]]) but we don't talk about fanfics, only official fiction.[[User:Pat|Pat]] ([[User talk:Pat|talk]]) 08:34, 12 February 2015 (EST)
:::Go read the IDW comics, it happened. Or wait for [[Megatron (G1)/toys#Leader|this toy]]. But again, this is nowhere near the level of complaining that is necessary for Ruined Forever. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 08:58, 12 February 2015 (EST)
::::But what's wrong if Megatron is an Autobot? It's supposed to be nice because that means there are no Decepticons and no war.[[User:Pat|Pat]] ([[User talk:Pat|talk]]) 03:45, 13 February 2015 (EST)
:::::Which would pretty much END the fiction. No conflict, no drama, no story.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 07:02, 13 February 2015 (EST)

In the allinged continuity, he becomes an Autobot in the Beast Hunters Predicons Rising movie. [[User:Markatron|Markatron]] ([[User talk:Markatron|talk]]) 23:09, 1 August 2015 (EDT)

Talk:AndrÃ© Sogliuzzo

2015-04-22T02:16:07Z

Markatron: Created page with "Why was this guy replaced by James Remar in DOTM in voicing Sidesipe? ~~~~"

Why was this guy replaced by [[James Remar]] in DOTM in voicing Sidesipe? [[User:Markatron|Markatron]] ([[User talk:Markatron|talk]]) 22:16, 21 April 2015 (EDT)

Grindor (ROTF)

2015-04-18T15:48:59Z

Markatron:

{{factions|decepticonfilm}}
{{disambig3|Grindor}}
:''Grindor is a [[Decepticon]] from the [[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (franchise)|Revenge of the Fallen franchise]] in the [[Live-action film series|live-action film]] [[continuity family]].''
[[Image:Grindor rotfgame trailer.jpg|thumb|250px|right|I copied [[Blackout (Movie)|another character's]] alt-mode 'cause [[Scavenger (ROTF)|all]] [[Buffalo MPV Decepticon|the]] [[Rampage (ROTF)|cool]] [[Mixmaster (ROTF)|'cons]] [[Long Haul (ROTF)|were]] [[Scrapper (ROTF)|doing]] it.]]

You have to get up pretty early in the morning to get one over on '''Grindor'''. A master strategist, and close combat specialist, Grindor can predict his opponents' next move before they know it themselves. It's reached the point where it's less planning and more instinct on his part. With every possible move planned out beforehand, Grindor confidently wades into the center of battle, ready for any and all comers.

Except [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|this guy]].

Don't confuse him with [[Blackout (Movie)|that guy]].

{{bigquote|Objectives will win a battle, but it is sheer ruthlessness that will win a war.|Grindor's sagely advice to the Decepticons|''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)|ROTF: The Game]]''}}

==Fiction==
===Titan Magazines===
{{note|Unlike his bio, Grindor here comes off more like a working stiff.}}

[[Image:GrindorTitan_talkinghislanguage.jpg|thumb|left|250px|He and [[Raoul]] were in the same engineering course.]]

Grindor was dispatched to [[Las Vegas]] by [[Soundwave (ROTF)|Soundwave]], who refused to tell him what he was looking for and directed him to [[Seeker (ROTF)|some old car]]. He was a bit fed up until he was told to cut open said car and remove its insides, fun fun fun! Once he'd secured the Cybertronian "memory tree", he came under attack by [[NEST]] forces intending to capture him. Using his rotors, he created a whirlwind that hurled cars at his enemies, but they easily managed to anchor him to the ground with an electrified cable before he could retreat.

Luckily [[Skids (ROTF)|two]] [[Mudflap (ROTF)|dumbasses]] turned up and shot the cable off, allowing Grindor to escape! {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.3|Learning Curve}}

[[Image:Titan_deceptitwins.jpg|thumb|right|250px|The scale here is so messed up.]]

Later, as part of Soundwave's plan, those two dumbasses were in the Decepticons, and poor Grindor had to put up with them jabbering in his ear. He pleaded with Soundwave to tell him that he didn't really trust them to bring in [[Ransack (ROTF)|Ransack]], and was relieved to find out they were just bait; when he asked what would happen if they survived, he was told he would make sure they didn't. Happy day!

To his annoyance, the twins succeeded by talking instead of shooting. He agreed with [[Sideways (ROTF)|Sideways]] that this sort of thing was an abomination and must be stopped, and shot Ransack out the sky. Skids was able to keep him contained and occupied with suppressive fire, while Mudflap took down Sideways, but Grindor decided to just grab Ransack and bug out, leaving Sideways behind and threatening to get even with the twins another time. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.7|Turnabout}}

Back at base, he sat in on Soundwave's interrogation of Ransack, but it was interrupted by the Autobot twins. Grindor took fire and was not seen again after that, presumably fleeing later with Soundwave. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.8|Back-to-Back}}

{{-}}

===''Revenge of the Fallen'' film===
:''Voice actor:'' [[Frank Welker]]

Ordered by [[The Fallen]] to capture [[Sam Witwicky]] for the information that the [[AllSpark]] had imprinted in his mind, [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]] led [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] and Grindor to [[Earth]], waiting for the [[human]] boy to be flushed out by [[Alice|one of their agents]]. Grindor captured the humans' escape vehicle and brought it to [[Broadwater Metal Works|an abandoned industrial facility]] where Starscream and Megatron were waiting. While Grindor waited outside, Megatron and [[Scalpel (ROTF)|Scalpel]] interrogated the boy, preparing to extract the information by removing his brain, a process that was interrupted by the arrival of [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] and [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]]. Optimus briefly fought off Megatron and Starscream before escaping with Sam into the woods.

[[Image:ROTF Optimus vs Grindor.jpg|thumb|left|250px|I predict a checkmate in 4 mo-*stab*.]]
Megatron followed, but soon called in his minions for assistance. Grindor played little part in the opening attack, grabbing the Autobot leader and sawing into his face before being knocked away, but eventually gathered on the outnumbered and outgunned, but defiant Optimus Prime. The [[Autobot]] [[Prime (rank)|leader]] immediately unsheathed both [[Dual Energon Swords|battle blade]]s and attacked the Decepticons, cutting off Grindor's right arm, slashing into his chest, sending some of Starscream's artillery his way and throwing his right battle blade into the Decepticon's leg. Badly hurt, Grindor required some downtime before he could rejoin the battle, during which Optimus stabbed Megatron and ripped off Starscream's arm.

[[Image:Grindor-ROTFhooks.jpg|right|thumb|250px| No, wait, I miscal-[[Furmanism|SHEEAAAGH!!!]]]]

Grindor was just pulling out the deenergized blade Prime had swung into him when the Autobot unleashed his [[Energon Hooks]] and jabbed it into his [[optic]], using the leverage to pull himself onto the Decepticon. Once on top, Prime then struck another hook into Grindor, then proceeded to ''tear his head apart'', killing Grindor. As he pushed the lifeless and headless hulk to the ground, Optimus contemptuously commented on the material Grindor was made of. ''(Tin, to be specific)'' {{storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen}}
{{-}}

===''Revenge of the Fallen'' toy bios===
The meticulous Grindor's careful scheming and power of flight put him at a great advantage during an encounter with the Autobot [[Ratchet (Movie)|Ratchet]]. Only Ratchet doing something completely unpredictable could save him! {{storylink|#SurfaceToAirShowdown|Surface To Air Showdown bio}}

===Transformers (2010) toy bios===
During a running battle with [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]] through a city's streets, the flying Grindor stayed out of the mute Autobot's range and rained down explosives with "chaotic glee". The rubber-burnin' Bumblebee planned to bring Grindor down to his level by making him quickly maneuver past buildings, hoping his rotor would catch, and signs pointed to Grindor soon making a costly mistake... {{storylink|#Legends Class 2|Bombing Run Battle}}

===Transformers Annual 2011===
Grindor and [[Barricade (Movie)|Barricade]] were sent to [[Tokyo]] to act as a diversion. After Barricade was located by the Autobots, Grindor hovered in the air and shot missiles at Optimus. Optimus responded by scaling the side of a nearby office tower and punching him out of the air. After crash-landing on Barricade, Grindor picked his comrade up and, after taking a moment to gloat that the diversion had worked, departed. {{storylink|Sam in Danger}}
===''Unite for the Universe'' manga===
The body of either Grindor or Blackout was among the Decepticon corpses waiting to be melted down at the [[N.E.S.T. N.B.E. Resource Redistribution Plant]]. {{storylink|Unite for the Universe issue 1|Ambition Instigated}}
{{-}}

==Games==
===''Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen'' - The Game===
{{voiceactor|[[Fred Tatasciore]] (English)|[[Jarosław Boberek]] (Polish)}}

====Xbox 360/Sony PS3/PC====
=====Decepticon campaign=====
[[Image:ROTFgame-Grindor.jpg|left|thumb|I have light blue parts! That's how you know.]]

Grindor served in a similar capacity amongst the Decepticons to that which [[Ironhide (Movie)|Ironhide]] served for the Autobots - he was the Heavy Weapons Guy. Big, slow, durable, and seriously over-armed with a gatling gun and an energon wave cannon. Grindor could even drop off gun turrets for that extra added overkill.

During the Decepticons' missions in [[China]], Grindor oversaw their supposedly secret mission in [[Shanghai]], until his forces were detected and routed by [[NEST]] and the Autobots. Imprisoned in the docks, [[Sideways (ROTF)|Sideways]] had to come and rescue his comrade.

On the United States West Coast, Grindor was assigned to hack into NEST's communication network in the downtown area. Fighting through its Autobot [[Protectobot Scout|Protectobot]] defenders, Grindor managed to link up with each of the town's five communications arrays, furthering the Decepticon cause.

On the East Coast, Grindor was assigned to capture Ladiesman217, designation Samuel Witwicky. After destroying the human's dorm building, Grindor took Witwicky to the nearby foundry where he would be interrogated by Megatron. However, during this process, the Autobots sent waves of Protectobots against Grindor in an attempt to save the boy, but they failed. {{Storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)|Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)}}
{{-}}

=====Autobot campaign=====
While Grindor secured their position by deploying [[Combaticon (ROTF)|Combaticon]] and [[Constructicon (ROTF)|Constructicon]] drones around the town, [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]] arrived to rescue Sam. Assisted by his drones, the Decepticon almost overwhelmed the plucky little Autobot, but in the end Bumblebee reduced Grindor and his unit into scrap metal. {{Storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)|Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)}}

====PSP====
{{charstubgame}}
{{storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (PSP)}}
{{-}}

===Transformers Autobots/Decepticons===
====Decepticons Campaign====
Grindor was present in Brazil when he and Sideways met the new Decepticon recruit. He later called Starscream a waste of Decepticon after the former stated that reviving Megatron would be a waste of the AllSpark shard's power, and was the first Decepticon to mention [[The Fallen]]. He and Starscream later destroyed an oil rig and he later helped tell the recruit about The Fallen's history.

In Asia, he sent the recruit on a mission to destroy some forcefield generators in Tokyo. During the mission to revive Megatron, he dropped off the recruit at the base where the shard was being kept, and Starscream protected him from NEST jets while Megatron was being revived. When [[Soundwave (ROTF)|Soundwave]] learned about the energy signature in New York City, Grindor urged Megatron to send him there. Megatron, however, had other work for him, but promised that he would get this chance, but for [[NEST|one reason]] or [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|another]], he was never seen again. {{storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen: Autobots/Decepticons|Revenge of the Fallen: Autobots/Decepticons}}

====Autobots Campaign====
Grindor lead an invasion in Rome, [[Italy]], and came across the new Autobot recruit in the ruins. After a long, tiring fight, the recruit redirected an airstrike that killed the Blackout lookalike, but not before learning about The Fallen. {{storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen: Autobots/Decepticons|Revenge of the Fallen: Autobots/Decepticons}}

===''Transformers: The Ride – 3D''===
:''Voice actor:'' [[Frank Welker]]

Grindor flew into action when Megatron ordered the destruction of the Autobot Evac. He transformed and stomped through the streets, all the while swinging his rotor blades at the fleeing Autobot. He smashed himself partly through a tunnel that Evac had entered and reached out for him, when he realized too late that it was a train tunnel and that he was in the path of an oncoming train. The train sped by, bashing his upper body and face while severing his out-stretched arm and keeping him from catching Evac. His fate after the encounter is unknown.{{storylink|Transformers: The Ride – 3D}}

==Toys==
===Revenge of the Fallen===
====Legends Class toys====
[[Image:ROTF_Legends_Grindor.jpg|thumb|300px|No, I'm not Blackout! There is NO missing scene dammit! We're nothing alike. I would never let myself get shot in the balls.]]
*'''Grindor''' (Legends, 2009)

:''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (toyline)|Revenge of the Fallen]]'' Legends Grindor is a [[redeco]] of the [[Movie (franchise)|first movie]]'s Legends class [[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]] toy in a light blue base color with digital camouflage. Legends Grindor is a small and highly simplified version of the character, featuring limited articulation and detail, with the helicopter mode not being a particularly faithful recreation of a [[wikipedia:MH-53_Pave_Low|Sikorsky MH-53 Pave Low]] heavy-lift helicopter. (The placement of the fuel tanks, in particular, makes him look more like a [[Wikipedia:CH-53 Sea Stallion|CH-53 Sea Stallion]].) Even though the robot mode sports an attempt to emulate the movie character's chest design, this does not involve the use of obvious fake elements of the helicopter mode's cockpit, unlike [[Jazz (Movie)|other]] Legends Class toys of movie characters. As with all wave three Legends figures, the photo on the back of the figure's packaging shows a mis-transformed robot mode, where his arms are not folded down.

:This mold was also redecoed as [[Spinister (ROTF)|Spinister]] for the [[Kmart]]-[[exclusive]] "War for the Skies" battlepack.

::*''[http://tfu.info/2009/Decepticon/LegGrindor/grindor.htm More information on Grindor at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

====Voyager Class toys====
[[Image:ROTF_Voyager_Grindor.jpg|thumb|300px|Just you wait, someone will call him [[Leader-1 (Armada)|Leader-1]].]]
*'''Grindor''' (Voyager, 2009)
**''Japanese ID number:'' '''RD-18'''
**''Accessories:'' Scorponok mini-figure

:Grindor is a redeco of the first movie's Voyager class Blackout figure in a more military-accurate grey colour scheme. The little [[Scorponok (Movie)|Scorponok]] mini-figure has been redecoed to reflect the colour changes on the ''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (toyline)|Revenge of the Fallen]]'' release of Deluxe class Scorponok (even though the two never appear together in the film).

:Grindor transforms into a reasonably accurate MH-53 Pave Low. An aft "cage" compartment can be opened to release a small PVC figurine of his partner, Scorponok. A button under his tail rotor can be pressed in a geared action to rotate his rotor blades. By attaching the Deluxe-class Scorponok to his underside, the rotor [[gimmick]] also spins Scorponok's claws.

: During transformation, Grindor's (mind-numbingly delicate) [[Automorph Technology|Automorphing]] gimmick is activated when the user swings down his legs, which in turn flips the gray chest section his head is mounted upon up and into position, and lifts his back assembly and locks it into place behind his head. Another, less impressive automorph is in his legs—if you pull his knees down, his shin armor pops out a bit. The entire rotor assembly on his back can be removed and converted into a gigantic fan weapon, to represent ''vaguely'' the hand-held rotor-blade weapon he and Blackout wield in the films. Because of the size of his rotor assembly, Grindor is also much shorter than most Voyager-class figures despite his bulk, barely taller than a Deluxe figure.

: It is ''very'' easy for the gears in the cockpit/chest to become misaligned during transformation, enough so that the chest/head section refuses to align with the cockpit halves. Getting the gears back into alignment is a veritable nightmare, as so many other parts shift and move as you attempt to manipulate the respective pieces. Swinging the legs down locks the back assembly into place for robot mode, but simply swinging the legs back does ''not'' ''un''lock it, with the user being required to separate the parts actively by hand. Failing to do so is sure to misalign your Grindor to bejeezus.

: This version of Grindor is in perfect scale with ''[[Optimus Prime (Movie)/toys#Cyberverse|Cyberverse Commander Optimus Prime]]''.

: An interesting side note is that the two hard points located on Grindor's shoulders, intended to support his abominably large weapon, are actually the same size as the [[Mini-Con]] [[Powerlinx]] plugs on most [[Unicron Trilogy]] figures.

:The original Blackout release of this mold was retooled as ''[[Movie (toyline)|Movie]]'' [[Evac (Movie)|Evac]] and ''Revenge of the Fallen'' [[Whirl (ROTF)|Whirl]].

::*''[http://tfu.info/2009/Decepticon/Grindor/grindor.htm More information on Grindor at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

{{anchor|SurfaceToAirShowdown}}
[[Image:ROTFSurfaceToAirShowdown.jpg|thumb|300px|Unbeknownest to all, Grindor actually takes his name from his love of coffee.]]
*'''Surface To Air Showdown''' (Voyager 2-pack, 2009)
**''Accessories:'' Scorponok mini-figure

:A [[Costco]]-[[exclusive]] two-pack featuring Grindor squaring off against [[Ratchet (Movie)|Ratchet]], strangely reminiscent of Ratchet's fight with [[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]] in the [[Transformers Autobots/Decepticons|Transformers: Autobots]] Nintendo DS game. Both toys remain unchanged from their individual retail release.
{{-}}

====Fast Action Battlers====
[[Image:Grindor ROTF FAB toy.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Hey, is that Leader-1?]]
*'''Missile Assault Grindor''' (Fast Action Battler, 2009)
**''Accessories:'' Projectile

:Missile Assault Grindor is a redeco of the first movie's Gyro Blade Blackout in a more military-accurate grey colour scheme. He is a simplified version of Grindor/Blackout design, designed for smaller children. His rotor blade can be detached and inserted into his left hand to represent the hand-held rotor blade seen in the film, just like the Voyager class version. He also features a chest cannon which can be flipped up from his back. Oddly, you can only see one-fourth of Grindor's head from a 90-degree angle. Even less of it is visible when his chest cannon is flipped up. He features a firing missile.

::*''[http://tfu.info/2009/Decepticon/FABGrindor/grindor.htm More information on Missile Assault Grindor at TFU.info]''

{{-}}
===Transformers (2010)===
====Legends Class toys====
[[Image:WMBombRunBattleBumblebeeGrindor.jpg|thumb|300px|Doesn't this remind you of [[Jolt (Armada)|something?]].]]
*'''Bombing Run Battle''' (Walmart exclusive multi-pack, 2010)

:This [[Walmart]] exclusive multi-pack contains a tan and orange [[Sandstorm (G1)|Sandstorm]]-themed redeco of Legends Class Grindor and a redeco of Deluxe Class [[Bumblebee (Movie)/toys|Cannon Bumblebee]].

::*''[http://tfu.info/2010/Decepticon/WMGrindor/grindor.htm More information on Bombing Run Battle Grindor at TFU.info]''

{{--}}

==Notes==
===Blackout vs. Grindor===
{{quote|Blackout. Grindor. They all look the same to me.|[[Ironhide (Movie)|Ironhide]]|"[[Transformers Comic issue 2.10|Law and Disorder]]"}}
* ''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen]]'' never explicitly establishes Grindor as a separate character from Blackout. Screenwriter [[Roberto Orci]], when asked, was not sure whether they were supposed to be the same character or not.<ref name="orci">[http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-movie-discussion/180451-welcome-mr-roberto-orci-you-may-ask-him-questions-283.html#post3785383 Q&A with Roberto Orci at TFW2005]</ref> In the [[Hasbro Q&A/July 2009: Answers|{{SITENAME_SHORT}} Hasbro Q&A for July 2009]], it was confirmed that Grindor, not Blackout, appears in the movie.
*In the novel, his name is never used, just a '''huge Russian helicopter'''. Who can blame them, [[Roberto Orci]] couldn't remember it either.
*Internal files for the ''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)|Revenge of the Fallen]]'' video game identify this character as Blackout, indicating that the game had been developed with the understanding that they were the same character... but had dialogue re-recorded to refer to him as Grindor.
*On the [[cross-sell]] for "[[The Fury of Fearswoop]]" multipack, Grindor is mistakenly given the name Blackout. Still, at least he remained [[Long Haul (ROTF)|a Decepticon.]]
*In ''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen: The Movie Universe|Revenge of the Fallen: The Movie Universe]]'', Blackout is featured instead of Grindor. Guess [[Simon Furman|the writer]] didn't get the memo in time.
*In the ''[[Revenge of the Fallen: The Junior Novel|Revenge of the Fallen: The Junior Novel]]'', Blackout is the character assisting Megatron and Starscream in the Forest against Optimus rather than Grindor.
*The 2-disc special edition of ''Revenge of the Fallen'' features some still poses of the Autobots and Decepticons, and names the helicopter as Blackout.

===Alternate mode===
*Although his toys (and seemingly the CG model of his robot mode) are identical to Blackout's, and although the toys' packaging retains Pave Low [[licensed vehicle alternate modes|licensing]] information, Grindor's alt mode in the movie is in fact a [[Wikipedia:CH-53E_Super_Stallion|Sikorsky CH-53E Super Stallion]]—essentially a slightly upsized Pave Low operated by the [[United States Marine Corps|US Marine Corps]]. The ROTF video games include licensing information for the Super Stallion instead of the Pave Low. The alt mode switch may be explained by the retirement of the USAF's Pave Lows in 2008.
*Grindor only has six main rotor blades on his back while a normal CH-53E Super Stallion has seven main rotor blades. Strangely, his anti-torque tail rotor blade weapon in the film appears to have six blades like Blackout while a normal Super Stallion has four blades on the anti-torque tail rotor.
*The CH-53E has a different nose from the Pave Low, with the large bulb replaced by two windows, another feature not incorporated in his robot mode.

===Other===
*Frank Welker is not credited for the voice of Grindor in the credits of the film itself, but his "[http://www.frankwelker.net/ Official Homepage]" would later credit him for the role. While we're not entirely convinced that the page wasn't simply updated by someone who read it on Wikipedia, the "sheeeagh" that Grindor lets out as Optimus Prime rips his head apart is pretty unmistakeably Welker.
*The master strategic skills and battle prowess his on-package bio goes on about come off a little less than impressive when you realize his tech specs give him a "Skill" level of... 4. That makes him one better at his job than [[Skids (ROTF)|these]] [[Mudflap (ROTF)|guys]].
*Grindor is stated to be 33 feet tall. Despite that being his height in the ''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)|game]]'', one can see that during the Forest Battle, he is clearly much taller than ''[[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]]'' (Who is 35 feet tall) and about twice the size of ''[[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus]]'', who is 28 feet tall, thus making him about 55 feet tall.

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Grindor''' (グラインダー ''Guraindā'')

==Footnotes==
<references/>

[[Category:Costco exclusives]]
[[Category:Revenge of the Fallen Decepticons]]
[[Category:Strategists]]
[[Category:Transformers (2010) Decepticons]]
[[Category:Wal-Mart exclusives]]
[http://www.example.com link title]

Talk:Transformers: Cyber Missions

2015-04-01T01:02:19Z

Markatron:

So, hey, I thought I'd watch the [http://www.hasbro.com/monkeybartv/default.cfm?page=Entertainment/Videos/VideoSelect&aid=4258 GIJOE Operation HISS shorts] as well, and THEY have CREDITS. They say the Joe shorts are produced by [http://www.steelehouse.com/main.html Steelhouse Productions]. They proooobably also do the Transformers shorts. Voice actors include Jake Minton, LaMorne Harris, Nathan Allen, Marika Mashburn, Chris Burnham, and Susan Bishop, so they do seem to be hiring more than one person to do everyone, if this is representative of the TF shorts. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 17:03, 9 March 2010 (EST)
: After some more Google digging, it looks like Steelehouse might be affiliated with Joe's animation shorts only. I get lots of hits for Steelehouse and Joe, but none for Steelehouse and Transformers. So I guess it's probably a different studio for TF after all. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 17:19, 9 March 2010 (EST)

== Episode 4 ==

If anyone feels like watching and making a page... [http://promos.ytv.com/transformersROTF/ Cyber Missions 4 is up at YTV.com]. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 08:19, 27 March 2010 (EDT)
:<s>Hmm, it's not working for me - I just get a repeated message about the content not being available. Has anyone been able to view it?</s> It's Canadian viewers only! Darn! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:29, 27 March 2010 (EDT)

[[Image:]]
== Upcoming episodes==
You know there is an episode 9, 10 and 11? I tried creating a page on them but it was so bad that it was deleted.
: [[Smolder (PCC)|We probably know.]] --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:40, 28 August 2010 (EDT)

== Category ==

There should be a category that ties all of the Cyber Missions featured characters together (Bumblebee, Ratchet, Smolder...). [[:Category:Revenge of the Fallen]] doesn't seem quite right since this is, at best, post-ROTF movieverse fiction. How about "Category:Cyber Missions characters"? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 17:41, 3 August 2010 (EDT)

:I agree, [[:Category:Revenge of the Fallen]] isn't exactly accurate enough.{{unsigned|219.79.212.52|00:10, August 28, 2010}}
::Hey, it looks like the Cyber Missions-related categories are moving from "Revenge of the Fallen" to "Live-action film series". The [[Talk:Cyber Missions 1#Franchise?|consensus up until now was pretty clearly]] "Revenge of the Fallen". Interrobang certainly seemed to agree. Anyway, I won't argue about the new category, except I have a question about character pages. Characters like [[Smolder (PCC)|Smolder]] were added to [[:Category:Revenge of the Fallen characters]] because of his Cyber Missions appearance. Where should he go now? Should we have a "Category:Cyber Missions characters"? And what about all the Revenge of the Fallen stuff at the top of this page, like the logo and menu? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 21:18, 9 October 2010 (EDT)

== Cyber Mission dubbed in spanish ==

[http://transformersmexico.com/]
Can I note that this is the first series since Robots in Disguise to be dubbed in Mexico? It's a milestone for Latin American fans, also, the cast is composed by respected voice actors that have been involved in past Transformers fiction, for example: the one that voices Bludgeon originally voiced Rhinox in Beast Wars, the one that voices Megatron was Megatron in Rid and the live-action films, etc. Seems that Hasbro understood that dubbing the third season of Transformers Animated in Colombia was a bad idea, the dubbing was as bad as the Omni Productions dubs of the japanese series, in fact, it was so bad, that the third season was never rerun in Cartoon Network or any other channel.-[[User:ACIDSTORM92|ACIDSTORM92]] 20:07, 8 September 2010 (EDT)
:Yes, that would be great information! - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 22:52, 8 September 2010 (EDT)
:: Is it okay if I add this? "It is at this point unknown if it will ever air on television in Latin America or get released in DVD, as it is presumed to be competing against ''Max Steel Turbo Missions'' which is another series of shorts based on popular toylines in that region."-[[User:ACIDSTORM92|ACIDSTORM92]] 02:26, 12 September 2010 (EDT)

==Question==
Anybody know why 1. Bumblebee has three or four different voices and 2. if this is cannon to the actual movies? [[User:Markatron|Markatron]] ([[User talk:Markatron|talk]]) 21:02, 31 March 2015 (EDT)

Talk:Starscream the Mysterious Mercenary

2015-03-29T00:01:07Z

Markatron:

Did anyone find it odd that no one seemed to recognize Starscream? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 21:22, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
:Well, he was in a brand new body, plus he was only visible for a few seconds at a time. --[[User:Fortress Minimus|Fortress Minimus]] 08:21, 10 May 2010 (EDT)

Who voiced Demolisher in this episode? [[User:Markatron|Markatron]] ([[User talk:Markatron|talk]]) 20:01, 28 March 2015 (EDT)

The Transformers: Masterpiece

2015-02-21T17:06:39Z

Markatron: /* Hasbro versions */

'''''The Transformers: Masterpiece''''' (トランスフォーマーマスターピース) is a toyline of collector-focused toys that are mostly based upon characters from the [[The Transformers (cartoon)|''Generation 1'' cartoon]], but manufactured with today's advanced engineering techniques. As a line aimed towards collectors, ''Masterpiece'' Transformers tend to be very expensive.

Though the ''Masterpiece'' line is largely developed by [[TakaraTomy|Takara/TakaraTomy]] with the [[Japan]]ese market in mind, the line is also distributed by [[Hasbro]] in Asian markets outside Japan, and in [[Australia]] as [[Target]] and [[Toys"R"Us]] [[exclusive]]s. Hasbro has also [[redeco]]ed/[[retool]]ed molds from this line for release in their own markets under various toy lines, and almost always as store exclusives. These Hasbro versions originally saw release as [[Walmart]] exclusives until 2009, when they were succeeded by Toys"R"Us. From 2013 onwards, Hasbro released its versions as a single cohesive line (instead of as part of other, contemporary lines), with a numbering system similar to the one used by TakaraTomy.

==Scale and rate of releases==
The ''Masterpiece'' line started at a slow pace in 2003, with new molds being released every two years or so, and with redecos/retools being released in-between. The figures that were released back then were exclusively of the larger main characters, and [[scale]] wasn't very consistent due to price constraints and their large size, with the results being that figures of certain huge characters (such as Grimlock) were too short compared to other characters they were meant to tower over (such as Convoy).

With the release of a new tooling of Convoy in 2011, the line was rebooted, featuring a smaller, more consistent scale based on MP-09 Rodimus Convoy, and a ''significant'' increase in releases per year. Rather notably, ''Masterpieces'' of the smaller characters were introduced.

==Sublines==
Two sub-lines emerged, one designated as MP-B## and being based upon the ''[[Brave (franchise)|Brave]]'' franchise (not covered in this wiki), and another with the MPM-# designation to represent [[live-action film series]] Transformers (see [[#Live-action movie series|below]]).

==Products==

<center>
===Generation 1===
====Standard Takara Versions====
<gallery>
File:20thAnniversary_OptimusPrimesm.jpg|MP-1 [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#20th Anniversary/Masterpiece|Convoy]] ([[2003]])
File:Masterpiece_UltraMagnus_toy.jpg|MP-2 [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/toys#Masterpiece|Ultra Magnus]] ([[2005]])
File:MasterpieceStarscream_toy.jpg|MP-3 [[Starscream (G1)/toys#Masterpiece|Starscream]] ([[2006]])
File:MP04Convoy2.jpg|MP-4 [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#mp4|Convoy Perfect Edition]] (2006/[[October 1|10-01]]-[[2009]])
File:MP05_megatron.jpg|MP-5 [[Megatron (G1)/toys#MasterpieceMegs|Megatron]] ([[2007]])
File:MP-6_Skywarp.jpg|MP-6 [[Skywarp (G1)/toys#Masterpiece|Skywarp]] ([[September 1|9-1]]-[[2007]])
File:MP_Thundercracker_toy.jpg|MP-7 [[Thundercracker (G1)/toys#Masterpiece|Thundercracker]] ([[November 20|11-20]]-[[2008]])
File:Grimlock_Masterpiece.jpg|MP-8 [[Grimlock (G1)/toys#Masterpiece|Grimlock]] ([[March 26|3-26]]-2009)
File:Takara Masterpiece Rodimus.jpg|MP-9 [[Hot Rod (G1)/toys#Masterpiece|Rodimus Convoy]] ([[January 29|1-29]]-[[2011]]/[[September 24|9-24]]-2011)
File:MP-10_toy_photo.jpg|MP-10 [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#mp10|Convoy]] (9-24-2011)
File:Masterpiecetoy coronation starscream.jpg|MP-11 [[Starscream (G1)/toys#MP11|Starscream]] ([[March 31|3-31]]-[[2012]])
File:Masterpiece-MP12Lambor.jpg|MP-12 [[Sideswipe (G1)#Masterpiece|Lambor]] ([[October 27|10-27]]-2012)
File:Masterpiece-MP14Alert.jpg|MP-14 [[Red Alert (G1)#Masterpiece|Alert]] ([[December 15|12-15]]-2012)
File:Masterpiece_Soundwave.jpg|MP-13 [[Soundwave (G1)/toys#Masterpiece|Soundwave]] (with [[Laserbeak (G1)#Masterpiece|Condor]]) ([[January 26|1-26]]-[[2013]]/[[September 28|9-28]]-2013)
File:MP_Rumble_Ravage.JPG|MP-15 [[Rumble (G1)#Masterpiece|Rumble]] & [[Ravage (G1)/toys#Masterpiece|Jaguar]] ([[February 23|2-23]]-[[2013]])
File:MP_Frenzy_Buzzsaw.jpg|MP-16 [[Frenzy (G1)#Masterpiece|Frenzy]] & [[Buzzsaw (G1)#Masterpiece|Buzzsaw]] ([[March 23|3-23]]-2013)
File:MP_Prowl.jpg|MP-17 [[Prowl (G1)/toys#Masterpiece|Prowl]] (9-28-2013)
File:MP_Bluestreak.jpg|MP-18 [[Bluestreak (G1)#Masterpiece|Streak]] ([[October 26|10-16]]-2013)
File:MP19-Smokescreen.jpg|MP-19 [[Smokescreen (G1)#Masterpiece|Smokescreen]] ([[December 14|12-14]]-2013)
File:MP-20_Wheeljack.jpg|MP-20 [[Wheeljack (G1)/toys#Masterpiece|Wheeljack]] ([[September 20|9-20]]-[[2014]])
File:Bumble Bee Masterpiece.jpg|MP-21 [[Bumblebee (G1)/toys#Masterpiece|Bumble]] ([[November 29|11-29]]-2014)
File:MP22-UltraMagnus.jpg|MP-22 [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/toys#MP22|Ultra Magnus]] ([[December 27|12-27]]-2014)
File:MP Exhaust.jpg|MP-23 [[Exhaust]] ([[March 21|3-21]]-2015)
File:MP24-StarSaber.jpg|MP-24 [[Star Saber (Victory)#Masterpiece|Star Saber]] (03-21-2015)
File:Soon-silhouette.jpg|MP-25 [[Tracks (G1)#Masterpiece|Tracks]] (2015)
</gallery>

====Special editions====
<gallery>
File:Gold masterpiece prime.jpg|MP-1 [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#goldmp|Convoy]] ([[Lucky Draw figure]], 2004)
File:MP-01B-BlackOptimusPrime-1.jpg|MP-1B [[Eldedroid#Masterpiece|Convoy Black Ver.]] ([[November 21|11-21]]-2009/1-2010)
File:Masterpiecetoy-GrimlockKing.jpg|MP-8X [[Grimlock (G1)/toys#King|King Grimlock]] (12-2009)
File:Masterpiece_ghost_starscream.jpg|MP-3G [[Starscream (G1)/toys#MP3G|Starscream Ghost Ver.]] (6-2010)
File:MP4Sconvoysleepmode.jpg|MP-4S [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#sleepmode|Convoy Sleep Mode]] (6-2010)
File:MPtoy_last_shot_convoy.jpg|MP-1L [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#lastshot|Convoy Last Production]] ([[March 26|3-26]]-2011)
File:MasterpieceBlackRodimus.jpg|MP-09B [[Black Rodimus Convoy#Masterpiece|Black Rodimus Convoy]] ([[November 28|11-28]]-2011)
File:MPtoy-Sunstorm.jpg|MP-11S [[Sunstorm (G1)#Masterpiece|Sunstorm]] ([[August 25|8-25]]-2012)
File:MP10_Black_Convoy_Official.jpg|MP-10B [[Nemesis Prime (G1)#Masterpiece|Black Convoy]] ([[March 30|3-30]]-2013)
File:Masterpiece-MP12TTigertrack.jpg|MP-12T [[Tigertrack#Masterpiece|Tigertrack]] (7-2013)
File:TRU Masterpiece Acid Storm.jpg|MP-11A [[Acid Storm (G1)#Masterpiece|Acid Storm]] (2013)
File:Masterpiece-MP12G-G2Lambor.jpg|MP-12G [[Sideswipe (G1)#G2Masterpiece|Lambor G-2 Ver.]] (2014)
File:Masterpiece-soundblaster-ratbat.jpg|MP-13B [[Soundwave (G1)/toys#MP13B|Soundblaster]] (with [[Ratbat (G1)#Masterpiece|Ratbat]]) (2014)
File:MP-18S-Silverstreak.jpg|MP-18S [[Bluestreak (G1)#MP18S|Silverstreak]] ([[June 14|6-14]]-2014)
File:Bape-mp-optimus.jpg|MP-10A [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#mpbape|Convoy (BAPE ver.)]] ([[August 19|7-19]]-2014)
File:Eva-optimus.jpg|MP-10 [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#eva|Convoy Mode "Eva"]] ([[November 28|11-28]]-2014)
File:MasterpieceGoldMegs.jpg|MP-05G [[Megatron (G1)/toys#MasterpieceGoldMegs|30th Anniversary Megatron]] (12-2014)
File:MP-11SW Skywarp.jpg|MP-11SW [[Skywarp (G1)/toys#Masterpiece11SW|Skywarp]] (1-[[2015]])
File:Bumble Bee Masterpiece G2.jpg|MP-21G [[Bumblebee (G1)/toys#G2Masterpiece|Bumble]] (7-[[2015]])
</gallery>

===Live-action movie series===
<gallery>
File:Masterpiece_Movie_Starscream.jpg|MPM-1 [[Starscream (Movie)/toys#Masterpiece|Starscream]] ([[October 30|10-30]]-2010)
File:Masterpiece Movie Bumblebee.jpg|MPM-2 [[Bumblebee (Movie)/toys#Masterpiece|Bumblebee]] ([[December 25|12-25]]-2010)
</gallery>

===Hasbro versions===
<gallery>
File:20thAnniversary OptimusPrimesm.jpg|20th Anniversary [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#20th Anniversary/Masterpiece|Optimus Prime]] (2003/2004)
File:DVD 20thPrime.jpg|20th Anniversary DVD Edition [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#20thDVD|Optimus Prime]] ([[Transformers: Classics|''Classics'']], 2006)
File:Hasbro Masterpiece Starscream toy.jpg|Masterpiece [[Starscream (G1)/toys#MasterpieceUS|Starscream]] (''Classics'', 2007)
File:Universe2008-toy MasterpieceSkywarp.jpg|Masterpiece [[Skywarp (G1)/toys#Universe (2008)|Skywarp]] ([[Transformers: Universe (2008 toyline)|''Universe'']], 2009)
File:MPGrimlock Hasbro.jpg|Masterpiece [[Grimlock (G1)/toys#MPHasbro|Grimlock]] ([[Transformers (2010 toyline)|''Transformers'']], 2010)
File:TF2010toy masterpiece rodimus.jpg|Masterpiece [[Hot Rod (G1)/toys#Transformers (2010)|Rodimus Prime]] (''Transformers'', 2011)
File:Transformers2010toy-HasbroMP10OptimusPrime.jpg|Masterpiece [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#mp10hasbro|Optimus Prime]] (''Transformers'', 2012)
File:TRU Masterpiece Thundercracker.jpg|Masterpiece [[Thundercracker (G1)/toys#Transformers (2010)|Thundercracker]] (''Transformers'', 2012)
File:TRU Masterpiece Acid Storm.jpg|MP-01 [[Acid Storm (G1)#Masterpiece|Acid Storm]] (2013)
File:TRU Masterpiece Soundwave with Cassettes.jpg|MP-02 [[Soundwave (G1)/toys#HasbroMasterpiece|Soundwave]] (2013)
File:PlatinumEditiontoy-Year of the horse Optimus Prime.jpg|Year of the Horse [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#Platinum Edition|Optimus Prime]] (''[[Transformers: Platinum Edition|Platinum Edition]]'', 2014)
File:Masterpiece-grimlock-hasbro-2014.jpg |MP-03 [[Grimlock (G1)/toys|Grimlock]] (2014)
File:Hasbro MP Prowl.jpg|MP-04 [[Prowl (G1)/toys#Masterpiece|Prowl]] (2014)
File:Masterpiece-sunstorm-hasbro-2014.jpg|MP-05 [[Sunstorm (G1)#Masterpiece|Sunstorm]] (2014)
File:MP-YOTGSoundwave.jpg|Year Of The Goat [[Soundwave (G1)/toys#SoundwaveMasterpieceYOTG|Soundwave]] (2015)
</gallery>
File:Soon-silhouette.jpg|MP-0? [[Starscream (G1)#Masterpiece|Starscream]] (2015)
</gallery>

==Design==
[[Hironori Kobayashi]] was the designer on the first nine ''Masterpieces'' that Takara/TakaraTomy released, from MP-01 Convoy/20th Anniversary Optimus Prime to MP-09 Rodimus Convoy. [[Shogo Hasui]] took over the reigns from MP-10 Convoy up to 2014, when it was reported<ref>[http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-masterpiece-47/new-designer-for-2014-masterpiece-series-transformers-178998/ New Designer for 2014 Masterpiece Series Transformers], from TFW2005.</ref> that Kobayashi would retake the design role that year.

''Masterpiece'' Star Saber was designed by [[Hisashi Yuki]] in order for the other Masterpieces to be released on schedule.

==References==
{{reflist}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Masterpiece}}
[[Category:Generation 1 toylines]]
[[Category:Japanese toylines]]
[[Category:Masterpiece| ]]

Grindor (ROTF)

2014-11-14T02:09:32Z

Markatron:

{{factions|decepticonfilm}}
{{disambig3|Grindor}}
:''Grindor is a [[Decepticon]] from the [[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (franchise)|Revenge of the Fallen franchise]] in the [[Live-action film series|live-action film]] [[continuity family]].''
[[Image:Grindor rotfgame trailer.jpg|thumb|250px|right|I copied another character's alt-mode 'cause [[Scavenger (ROTF)|all]] [[Buffalo MPV Decepticon|the]] [[Rampage (ROTF)|cool]] [[Mixmaster (ROTF)|'cons]] [[Long Haul (ROTF)|were]] [[Scrapper (ROTF)|doing]] it.]]

You have to get up pretty early in the morning to get one over on '''Grindor'''. A master strategist, and close combat specialist, Grindor can predict his opponents' next move before they know it themselves. It's reached the point where it's less planning and more instinct on his part. With every possible move planned out beforehand, Grindor confidently wades into the center of battle, ready for any and all comers.

Except [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|this guy]].

Don't confuse him with [[Blackout (Movie)|that guy]].

{{bigquote|Objectives will win a battle, but it is sheer ruthlessness that will win a war.|Grindor's sagely advice to the Decepticons|''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)|Revenge of the Fallen: The Game]]''}}

==Fiction==
===Titan Magazines===
{{note|Unlike his bio, Grindor here comes off more like a working stiff.}}

[[Image:GrindorTitan_talkinghislanguage.jpg|thumb|left|250px|He and [[Raoul]] were in the same engineering course.]]

Grindor was dispatched to [[Las Vegas]] by [[Soundwave (ROTF)|Soundwave]], who refused to tell him what he was looking for and directed him to [[Seeker (ROTF)|some old car]]. He was a bit fed up until he was told to cut open said car and remove its insides, fun fun fun! Once he'd secured the Cybertronian "memory tree", he came under attack by [[NEST]] forces intending to capture him. Using his rotors, he created a whirlwind that hurled cars at his enemies, but they easily managed to anchor him to the ground with an electrified cable before he could retreat.

Luckily [[Skids (ROTF)|two]] [[Mudflap (ROTF)|dumbasses]] turned up and shot the cable off, allowing Grindor to escape! {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.3|Learning Curve}}

[[Image:Titan_deceptitwins.jpg|thumb|right|250px|The scale here is so messed up.]]

Later, as part of Soundwave's plan, those two dumbasses were in the Decepticons, and poor Grindor had to put up with them jabbering in his ear. He pleaded with Soundwave to tell him that he didn't really trust them to bring in [[Ransack (ROTF)|Ransack]], and was relieved to find out they were just bait; when he asked what would happen if they survived, he was told he would make sure they didn't. Happy day!

To his annoyance, the twins succeeded by talking instead of shooting. He agreed with [[Sideways (ROTF)|Sideways]] that this sort of thing was an abomination and must be stopped, and shot Ransack out the sky. Skids was able to keep him contained and occupied with suppressive fire, while Mudflap took down Sideways, but Grindor decided to just grab Ransack and bug out, leaving Sideways behind and threatening to get even with the twins another time. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.7|Turnabout}}

Back at base, he sat in on Soundwave's interrogation of Ransack, but it was interrupted by the Autobot twins. Grindor took fire and was not seen again after that, presumably fleeing later with Soundwave. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 2.8|Back-to-Back}}

{{-}}

===''Revenge of the Fallen'' film===
:''Voice actor:'' [[Frank Welker]]

Ordered by [[The Fallen]] to capture [[Sam Witwicky]] for the information that the [[AllSpark]] had imprinted in his mind, [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]] led [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] and Grindor to [[Earth]], waiting for the [[human]] boy to be flushed out by [[Alice|one of their agents]]. Grindor captured the humans' escape vehicle and brought it to [[Broadwater Metal Works|an abandoned industrial facility]] where Starscream and Megatron were waiting. While Grindor waited outside, Megatron and [[Scalpel (ROTF)|Scalpel]] interrogated the boy, preparing to extract the information by removing his brain, a process that was interrupted by the arrival of [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] and [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]]. Optimus briefly fought off Megatron and Starscream before escaping with Sam into the woods.

[[Image:ROTF Optimus vs Grindor.jpg|thumb|left|250px|I predict a checkmate in 4 mo-*stab*.]]
Megatron followed, but soon called for his soldiers to assist. Grindor played little part in the opening attack, grabbing the Autobot and sawing into his face before being knocked away, but eventually gathered on the outnumbered and outgunned but defiant Optimus Prime. The [[Autobot]] [[Prime (rank)|leader]] immediately unsheathed both [[Dual Energon Swords|battle blade]]s and attacked the Decepticons, cutting off Grindor's right arm, slashing into his chest, sending some of Starscream's artillery his way and throwing his right battle blade into the Decepticon's torso. Badly hurt, Grindor required some downtime before he could rejoin the battle, during which Optimus stabbed Megatron and knocked off Starscream's arm.

[[Image:Grindor-ROTFhooks.jpg|right|thumb|250px|I think you'll find your death is [[Subsector Hooks|beyond imagination]].]]

Grindor was just pulling out the deenergized blade Prime had swung into him when the Autobot unleashed his [[Energon Hooks]] and jabbed it into his [[optic]], using the leverage to pull himself onto the Decepticon. Once on top, Prime then struck another hook into Grindor, then proceeded to ''tear his head apart'', killing Grindor. As he pushed the lifeless hulk to the ground, Optimus contemptuously commented on the material Grindor was made of. ''(Tin, to be specific)'' {{storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen}}
{{-}}

===''Revenge of the Fallen'' toy bios===
The meticulous Grindor's careful scheming and power of flight put him at a great advantage during an encounter with the Autobot [[Ratchet (Movie)|Ratchet]]. Only Ratchet doing something completely unpredictable could save him! {{storylink|#SurfaceToAirShowdown|Surface To Air Showdown bio}}

===Transformers (2010) toy bios===
During a running battle with [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]] through a city's streets, the flying Grindor stayed out of the mute Autobot's range and rained down explosives with "chaotic glee". The rubber-burnin' Bumblebee planned to bring Grindor down to his level by making him quickly maneuver past buildings, hoping his rotor would catch, and signs pointed to Grindor soon making a costly mistake... {{storylink|#Legends Class 2|Bombing Run Battle}}

===Transformers Annual 2011===
Grindor and [[Barricade (Movie)|Barricade]] were sent to [[Tokyo]] to act as a diversion. After Barricade was located by the Autobots, Grindor hovered in the air and shot missiles at Optimus. Optimus responded by scaling the side of a nearby office tower and punching him out of the air. After crash-landing on Barricade, Grindor picked his comrade up and, after taking a moment to gloat that the diversion had worked, departed. {{storylink|Sam in Danger}}

==Games==
===''Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen'' - The Game===
{{voiceactor|[[Fred Tatasciore]] (English)|[[Jarosław Boberek]] (Polish)}}

====Xbox 360/Sony PS3/PC====
=====Decepticon campaign=====
[[Image:ROTFgame-Grindor.jpg|left|thumb|I have light blue parts! That's how you know.]]

Grindor served in a similar capacity amongst the Decepticons to that which [[Ironhide (Movie)|Ironhide]] served for the Autobots - he was the Heavy Weapons Guy. Big, slow, durable, and seriously over-armed with a machine gun and an energon wave cannon. Grindor could even drop off gun turrets for that extra added overkill.

During the Decepticons' missions in [[China]], Grindor oversaw their supposedly secret mission in [[Shanghai]], until his forces were detected and routed by [[NEST]] and the Autobots. Imprisoned in the docks, [[Sideways (ROTF)|Sideways]] had to come and rescue his comrade.

On the United States West Coast, Grindor was assigned to hack into NEST's communication network in the downtown area. Fighting through its Autobot [[Protectobot Scout|Protectobot]] defenders, Grindor managed to link up with each of the town's five communications arrays, furthering the Decepticon cause.

On the East Coast, Grindor was assigned to capture Ladiesman217, designation Samuel Witwicky. After destroying the human's dorm building, Grindor took Witwicky to the nearby foundry where he would be interrogated by Megatron. However, during this process, the Autobots sent waves of Protectobots against Grindor in an attempt to save the boy, but they failed. {{Storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)|Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)}}
{{-}}

=====Autobot campaign=====
While Grindor secured their position by deploying [[Combaticon (ROTF)|Combaticon]] and [[Constructicon (ROTF)|Constructicon]] drones around the town, [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]] arrived to rescue Sam. Assisted by his drones, the Decepticon almost overwhelmed the plucky little Autobot, but in the end Bumblebee reduced Grindor and his unit into scrap metal. {{Storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)|Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)}}

===Transformers Autobots/Decepticons===
====Decepticons Campaign====
Grindor was present in Brazil when he and Sideways met the new Decepticon recruit. He later called Starscream a waste of Decepticon after the former stated that reviving Megatron would be a waste of the AllSpark shard's power, and was the first Decepticon to mention [[The Fallen]]. He and Starscream later destroyed an oil rig and he later helped tell the recruit about The Fallen's history.

In Asia, he sent the recruit on a mission to destroy some forcefield generators in Tokyo. During the mission to revive Megatron, he dropped off the recruit at the base where the shard was being kept, and Starscream protected him from NEST jets while Megatron was being revived. When [[Soundwave (ROTF)|Soundwave]] learned about the energy signature in New York City, Grindor urged Megatron to send him there. Megatron, however, had other work for him, but promised that he would get this chance, but for [[NEST|one reason]] or [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|another]], he was never seen again. {{storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen: Autobots/Decepticons|Revenge of the Fallen: Autobots/Decepticons}}

====Autobots Campaign====
Grindor lead an invasion in Rome, [[Italy]], and came across the new Autobot recruit in the ruins. After a long, tiring fight, the recruit redirected an airstrike that killed the Blackout lookalike, but not before learning about The Fallen. {{storylink|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen: Autobots/Decepticons|Revenge of the Fallen: Autobots/Decepticons}}

===''Transformers: The Ride – 3D''===
:''Voice actor:'' [[Frank Welker]]

Grindor flew into action when Megatron ordered the destruction of the Autobot Evac. He transformed and stomped through the streets, all the while swinging his rotor blades at the fleeing Autobot. He smashed himself partly through a tunnel that Evac had entered and reached out for him, when he realized too late that it was a train tunnel and that he was in the path of an oncoming train. The train sped by, bashing his upper body and face while severing his out-stretched arm and keeping him from catching Evac. His fate after the encounter is unknown.{{storylink|Transformers: The Ride – 3D}}

==Toys==
===Revenge of the Fallen===
====Legends Class toys====
[[Image:ROTF_Legends_Grindor.jpg|thumb|300px|No, I'm not Blackout! There is NO missing scene dammit! We're nothing alike. I would never let myself get shot in the balls.]]
*'''Grindor''' (Legends, 2009)

:''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (toyline)|Revenge of the Fallen]]'' Legends Grindor is a [[redeco]] of the [[Movie (franchise)|first movie]]'s Legends class [[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]] toy in a light blue base color with digital camouflage. Legends Grindor is a small and highly simplified version of the character, featuring limited articulation and detail, with the helicopter mode not being a particularly faithful recreation of a [[wikipedia:MH-53_Pave_Low|Sikorsky MH-53 Pave Low]] heavy-lift helicopter. (The placement of the fuel tanks, in particular, makes him look more like a [[Wikipedia:CH-53 Sea Stallion|CH-53 Sea Stallion]].) Even though the robot mode sports an attempt to emulate the movie character's chest design, this does not involve the use of obvious fake elements of the helicopter mode's cockpit, unlike [[Jazz (Movie)|other]] Legends Class toys of movie characters. As with all wave three Legends figures, the photo on the back of the figure's packaging shows a mis-transformed robot mode, where his arms are not folded down.

:This mold was also redecoed as [[Spinister (ROTF)|Spinister]] for the [[Kmart]]-[[exclusive]] "War for the Skies" battlepack.

::*''[http://tfu.info/2009/Decepticon/LegGrindor/grindor.htm More information on Grindor at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

====Voyager Class toys====
[[Image:ROTF_Voyager_Grindor.jpg|thumb|300px|Just you wait, someone will call him [[Leader-1 (Armada)|Leader-1]].]]
*'''Grindor''' (Voyager, 2009)
**''Japanese ID number:'' '''RD-18'''
**''Accessories:'' Scorponok mini-figure

:Grindor is a redeco of the first movie's Voyager class Blackout figure in a more military-accurate grey colour scheme. The little [[Scorponok (Movie)|Scorponok]] mini-figure has been redecoed to reflect the colour changes on the ''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (toyline)|Revenge of the Fallen]]'' release of Deluxe class Scorponok (even though the two never appear together in the film).

:Grindor transforms into a reasonably accurate MH-53 Pave Low. An aft "cage" compartment can be opened to release a small PVC figurine of his partner, Scorponok. A button under his tail rotor can be pressed in a geared action to rotate his rotor blades. By attaching the Deluxe-class Scorponok to his underside, the rotor [[gimmick]] also spins Scorponok's claws.

: During transformation, Grindor's (mind-numbingly delicate) [[Automorph Technology|Automorphing]] gimmick is activated when the user swings down his legs, which in turn flips the gray chest section his head is mounted upon up and into position, and lifts his back assembly and locks it into place behind his head. Another, less impressive automorph is in his legs—if you pull his knees down, his shin armor pops out a bit. The entire rotor assembly on his back can be removed and converted into a gigantic fan weapon, to represent ''vaguely'' the hand-held rotor-blade weapon he and Blackout wield in the films. Because of the size of his rotor assembly, Grindor is also much shorter than most Voyager-class figures despite his bulk, barely taller than a Deluxe figure.

: It is ''very'' easy for the gears in the cockpit/chest to become misaligned during transformation, enough so that the chest/head section refuses to align with the cockpit halves. Getting the gears back into alignment is a veritable nightmare, as so many other parts shift and move as you attempt to manipulate the respective pieces. Swinging the legs down locks the back assembly into place for robot mode, but simply swinging the legs back does ''not'' ''un''lock it, with the user being required to separate the parts actively by hand. Failing to do so is sure to misalign your Grindor to bejeezus.

: This version of Grindor is in perfect scale with ''[[Optimus Prime (Movie)/toys#Cyberverse|Cyberverse Commander Optimus Prime]]''.

: An interesting side note is that the two hard points located on Grindor's shoulders, intended to support his abominably large weapon, are actually the same size as the [[Mini-Con]] [[Powerlinx]] plugs on most [[Unicron Trilogy]] figures.

:The original Blackout release of this mold was retooled as ''[[Movie (toyline)|Movie]]'' [[Evac (Movie)|Evac]] and ''Revenge of the Fallen'' [[Whirl (ROTF)|Whirl]].

::*''[http://tfu.info/2009/Decepticon/Grindor/grindor.htm More information on Grindor at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

{{anchor|SurfaceToAirShowdown}}
[[Image:ROTFSurfaceToAirShowdown.jpg|thumb|300px|Unbeknownest to all, Grindor actually takes his name from his love of coffee.]]
*'''Surface To Air Showdown''' (Voyager 2-pack, 2009)
**''Accessories:'' Scorponok mini-figure

:A [[Costco]]-[[exclusive]] two-pack featuring Grindor squaring off against [[Ratchet (Movie)|Ratchet]], strangely reminiscent of Ratchet's fight with [[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]] in the [[Transformers Autobots/Decepticons|Transformers: Autobots]] Nintendo DS game. Both toys remain unchanged from their individual retail release.
{{-}}

====Fast Action Battlers====
[[Image:Grindor ROTF FAB toy.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Hey, is that Leader-1?]]
*'''Missile Assault Grindor''' (Fast Action Battler, 2009)
**''Accessories:'' Projectile

:Missile Assault Grindor is a redeco of the first movie's Gyro Blade Blackout in a more military-accurate grey colour scheme. He is a simplified version of Grindor/Blackout design, designed for smaller children. His rotor blade can be detached and inserted into his left hand to represent the hand-held rotor blade seen in the film, just like the Voyager class version. He also features a chest cannon which can be flipped up from his back. Oddly, you can only see one-fourth of Grindor's head from a 90-degree angle. Even less of it is visible when his chest cannon is flipped up. He features a firing missile.

::*''[http://tfu.info/2009/Decepticon/FABGrindor/grindor.htm More information on Missile Assault Grindor at TFU.info]''

{{-}}
===Transformers (2010)===
====Legends Class toys====
[[Image:WMBombRunBattleBumblebeeGrindor.jpg|thumb|300px|Doesn't this remind you of something?.]]
*'''Bombing Run Battle''' (Walmart exclusive multi-pack, 2010)

:This [[Walmart]] exclusive multi-pack contains a tan and orange [[Sandstorm (G1)|Sandstorm]]-themed redeco of Legends Class Grindor and a redeco of Deluxe Class [[Bumblebee (Movie)/toys|Cannon Bumblebee]].

::*''[http://tfu.info/2010/Decepticon/WMGrindor/grindor.htm More information on Bombing Run Battle Grindor at TFU.info]''

{{--}}

==Notes==
===Blackout vs. Grindor===
{{quote|Blackout. Grindor. They all look the same to me.|[[Ironhide (Movie)|Ironhide]]|"[[Transformers Comic issue 2.10|Law and Disorder]]"}}
* ''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen]]'' never explicitly establishes Grindor as a separate character from Blackout. Screenwriter [[Roberto Orci]], when asked, was not sure whether they were supposed to be the same character or not.<ref name="orci">[http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-movie-discussion/180451-welcome-mr-roberto-orci-you-may-ask-him-questions-283.html#post3785383 Q&A with Roberto Orci at TFW2005]</ref> In the [[Hasbro Q&A/July 2009: Answers|{{SITENAME_SHORT}} Hasbro Q&A for July 2009]], it was confirmed that Grindor, not Blackout, appears in the movie.
*In the novel, his name is never used, just a '''huge Russian helicopter'''. Who can blame them, [[Roberto Orci]] couldn't remember it either.
*Internal files for the ''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)|Revenge of the Fallen]]'' video game identify this character as Blackout, indicating that the game had been developed with the understanding that they were the same character... but had dialog re-recorded to refer to him as Grindor.
*On the [[cross-sell]] for "[[The Fury of Fearswoop]]" multipack, Grindor is mistakenly given the name Blackout. Still, at least he remained [[Long Haul (ROTF)|a Decepticon.]]
*In ''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen: The Movie Universe|Revenge of the Fallen: The Movie Universe]]'', Blackout is featured instead of Grindor. Guess [[Simon Furman|the writer]] didn't get the memo in time.
*In the ''[[Revenge of the Fallen: The Junior Novel|Revenge of the Fallen: The Junior Novel]]'', Blackout is the character assisting Megatron and Starscream in the Forest against Optimus rather than Grindor.
*The 2-disc special edition of ''Revenge of the Fallen'' features some still poses of the Autobots and Decepticons, and names the helicopter as Blackout.

===Alternate mode===
*Although his toys (and seemingly the CG model of his robot mode) are identical to Blackout's, and although the toys' packaging retains Pave Low [[licensed vehicle alternate modes|licensing]] information, Grindor's alt mode in the movie is in fact a [[Wikipedia:CH-53E_Super_Stallion|Sikorsky CH-53E Super Stallion]]—essentially a slightly upsized Pave Low operated by the [[United States Marine Corps|US Marine Corps]]. The ROTF video games include licensing information for the Super Stallion instead of the Pave Low. The alt mode switch may be explained by the retirement of the USAF's Pave Lows in 2008.
*Grindor only has six main rotor blades on his back while a normal CH-53E Super Stallion has seven main rotor blades. Strangely, his anti-torque tail rotor blade weapon in the film appears to have six blades like Blackout while a normal Super Stallion has four blades on the anti-torque tail rotor.
*The CH-53E has a different nose from the Pave Low, with the large bulb replaced by two windows, another feature not incorporated in his robot mode.

===Other===
*Frank Welker is not credited for the voice of Grindor in the credits of the film itself, but his "[http://www.frankwelker.net/ Official Homepage]" would later credit him for the role. While we're not entirely convinced that the page wasn't simply updated by someone who read it on Wikipedia, the "sheeeagh" that Grindor lets out as Optimus Prime rips his head apart is pretty unmistakeably Welker.
*The master strategic skills and battle prowess his on-package bio goes on about come off a little less than impressive when you realize his tech specs give him a "Skill" level of... 4. That makes him one better at his job than [[Skids (ROTF)|these]] [[Mudflap (ROTF)|guys]].
*Grindor is stated to be 33 feet tall. Despite that being his height in the ''[[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (Xbox 360/PS3/PC)|game]]'', one can see that during the Forest Battle, he is clearly much taller than ''[[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]]'' (Who is 35 feet tall) and about twice the size of ''[[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus]]'', who is 28 feet tall, thus making him about 55 feet tall.

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Grindor''' (グラインダー ''Guraindā'')

==Footnotes==
<references/>

[[Category:Costco exclusives]]
[[Category:Revenge of the Fallen Decepticons]]
[[Category:Strategists]]
[[Category:Transformers (2010) Decepticons]]
[[Category:Wal-Mart exclusives]]
[http://www.example.com link title]