MediaWiki - User contributions [en]

User talk:Mathius

2010-08-16T04:02:42Z

Mathius: Undo revision 490959 by Bobpiecheese (Talk)

User talk:Mathius

2010-08-16T03:49:31Z

Mathius: Removing all content from page

User talk:Mathius

2010-08-16T03:47:49Z

Mathius: /* Blanking */

{{signyourposts}}
--[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 12:39, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

User talk:Mathius

2010-08-16T03:45:37Z

Mathius: Undo revision 490920 by SFH (Talk)

User talk:Mathius

2010-08-15T23:02:58Z

Mathius: Undo revision 490885 by -Blackout- (Talk)

User talk:Mathius

2010-08-15T19:33:52Z

Mathius: Removing all content from page

User talk:Mathius

2010-08-15T16:47:21Z

Mathius: Removing all content from page

Talk:Arcee (SG)

2010-06-06T19:27:00Z

Mathius:

I don't want to make this edit myself and remove information, but does it really make sense to have a pic of an Elita-1 toy on an Arcee page? And then on Elita-1's page (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Elita-One_%28SG%29) the toy isn't even listed, and instead we have a toy for a completely different character listed? (Override GTS) ? --[[User:Mathius|Mathius]] 02:06, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:Learn about [[repurposing]]. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 02:12, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

I know what repurposing is, but when you have an official Elita-1 toy, why isn't it under the Elita-1 character page? Makes zero sense at all. --[[User:Mathius|Mathius]] 02:36, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:Because the goddamn toy is a goddamn repaint of a goddamn Arcee toy so it was goddamn repurposed as goddamn Arcee. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 02:38, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

Are you like 2 or something that you have to act like that? Shattered glass isn't even official except for a few botcon exclusives, right? It's a "virtual" toyline. It doesn't even exist. I can repurpose characters all day long, that doesn't make them canon. --[[User:Mathius|Mathius]] 02:44, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:You repurposing toys doesn't make it canon, but the authors of the official prose stories repurposing toys as various characters ''does''. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 02:47, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:Shattered Glass ''is'' official. Hasbro stamp of approval and everything. Just because you're too cheap to shell out the dough for membership doesn't make it fanfiction. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 02:48, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

Shattered glass the franchise, prose, etc. IS, the toy isn't. Period. By that logic if Furman came around and propose RID ultra magnus as a repaint of Furman Prime it would be official. When they do an official repaint of the toy and offer it for sale or as an exclusive, then it's official. Until then it's just a digibash or an idea in someone's head. But I'm not arguing logic anymore with someone who just cusses and throws out insults. If you say an official Elita-One toy belongs on an Arcee page, who am I to argue that logic. --[[User:Mathius|Mathius]] 02:52, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:It is official, actually, whether you find it silly or not. Especially when you consider that the repurposed characters either have descriptions or illustrations showing they're the toy in question. (Meanwhile, Furman's Primes don't.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 02:55, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:Hence why the Toy section mentions it's a ''repurposing''. And yes, if Furman had RID Ultra Magnus show up in fiction under the moniker Furman Prime, and it happened in an official Hasbro-approved story (like what Shattered Glass happens to be), ''it would count''. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 02:58, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

The very definition of repurposing which you guys linked to points out that it's unofficial "The repurposed character has no official toy release of his own" http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Repurpose Now I suggest you look up the word Rhetoric. --[[User:Mathius|Mathius]] 03:00, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:And I suggest you look up the term Arguing For Argument's Sake and then finish the quote from the article: "but the toy can take on double-duty representing both the character he was originally released as (the character on the box) and the repurposed character established later on in fiction." --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 03:03, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:"''Rhetoric: The art or study of using language effectively and persuasively''" (according to www.thefreedictionary.com). Aaaand ''how'' was that relevant to your argument, weak as it was? [[User:Bobpiecheese|Bobpiecheese]] 03:12, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

:I'm confused. Why are you saying the Elita 1 toy is not on the Elita 1 page when it [[Elita-One (Movie)#Transformers_.282007.29|clearly is]]? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 03:28, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
::He was talking about the toy not appearing on Elita-1's SG page (which wouldn't make sense anyway, since SG Elita-1 doesn't look like that) --[[Special:Contributions/89.138.184.102|89.138.184.102]] 09:20, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

'''I'm''' acting like a dick? I'm not the one cussing and whining like a 2 year old throwing a tantrum. And if I was a dick I'd have just made the edit instead of discussing it first. I don't expect you guys to understand what the difference between a fanboy and a normal person is. It's built into the definition of a fanboy that you are incapable of understanding when you're in the wrong. You guys are like little kids sitting in the sandbox with your "repurposing" nonsense saying "Let's pretend that Hot Rod is bumblee because Hasbro didn't make one." Seriously? You claim there's no "cliche", but then you throw around the words "our" and "we" etc. etc. and talk about your "system" that "I don't understand." If your system works so well then what's with the glaring inconsistencies? ('''YOUR''' repurposing page says they're unofficial, but you argue here that they are official. Whatever) If people are continually trying to edit pages and you're locking them so they can't be editted, OBVIOUSLY they want the information there. But you don't want it there so it can't be. But there's no cliche. Whatever. --[[User:Mathius|Mathius]] 14:25, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:The problem here isn't that we don't understand how we're in the wrong. The problem is that you only think we're wrong because you don't understand how things work and won't pay attention to our explanations trying to show you how they work.
:As for the repurposing, Detour already explained that you didn't pay attention to the whole quote: "The repurposed character has no official toy release of his own, '''but the toy can take on double-duty representing both the character he was originally released as (the character on the box) and the repurposed character established later on in fiction'''."
:On top of that, the descriptions in the prose and/or illustrations for the prose or comic clearly describe/show the character as being represented by that toy (since that's what the author/artist had in mind as being the official representation while doing their art/description).
:So if you want to actually understand how things work and then see if something genuinely doesn't make sense, then drop the attitude and listen and then comment. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:42, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
::I read what Detour wrote. You fail to recognize that the rest of the quote doesn't change anything as far as logic is concern. And I read the 'prose' stories (with the exception of reunification), they have few illustrations in them. Again you fail to see your system doesn't work and your logic is distorted. You're arguing to me that this toy looks like this character, but your own wiki page says there is no official image of this person. In other words, you justified whatthis person should look like based on a textual description and are trying to argue with me the accuracy of what is essentially someone's interpretation of the text.
::Does this phrase look familiar? "'''This character has no official visual representation whatsoever'''... yet, at least."
::Another point to make is that part of the "guidelines" for this is to provide sources. Where are the sources for your "repurposed" pretend figures if they're "official" ?--[[User:Mathius|Mathius]] 14:51, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:::"In other words, you justified whatthis person should look like based on a textual description and are trying to argue with me the accuracy of what is essentially someone's interpretation of the text."
:::Well, yes, seeing as how the interpretation we're basing it on is the author's interpretation. Seeing as how both authors are active on the message boards and actively edit this wiki, so they can say, "Yes, that was the toy we were describing."
:::And, that phrase refers to characters who don't have an official illustration yet. They can still have an official ''textual description'' (and thus an official repurposed toy said description was based on). --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 15:08, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

Then where is the link, hm? Where is the source?

"What's important is that this information should have been cleared through official channels. Hasbro's website is a valid source, as is IDW's. Preorder and inventory listings from established retailers, such as Toys "R" Us or Amazon, are also fair game. Information revealed by individuals involved in the production of Transformers, if it's revealed in an "official" venue ('''such as a printed article or a convention panel''') counts, '''but your behind-the-scenes talk with Aaron Archer at BotCon does not count.''' "http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Help:Official_info--[[User:Mathius|Mathius]] 15:19, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:[http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?s=e32c5660a7e4b5b21dfa0f5038fa53ff&showtopic=64373&st=0&p=1390930&#entry1390930] How's this? --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 15:21, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
::Yes, what's being emphasized here is that the source needs to be something that other users can verify. In this case, Troop and Sepelak are on hand to clarify very easily.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 15:25, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
And I'm sorry, I missed the point where the allspark forums became official hasbro media. Can someone give me THAT link?--[[User:Mathius|Mathius]] 15:27, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

:: Mathius, if you don't settle down, I am going to excise you from here and spare us all this overbearing nonsense. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:23, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
I don't care. It's obvious I don't want anything to do with you people anyways. Wiki pages are supposed to be a reference tool, not your pulpit. At what point do you guys plan on following the criteria set by your own web page? It seems to me you make up the rules as you go along since every point that's been made has completely contradicted what is set down on the wiki pages for the characters and rules we're discussing.--[[User:Mathius|Mathius]] 15:27, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

Talk:Arcee (SG)

2010-06-06T19:20:26Z

Mathius:

Talk:Arcee (SG)

2010-06-06T19:19:21Z

Mathius:

I don't want to make this edit myself and remove information, but does it really make sense to have a pic of an Elita-1 toy on an Arcee page? And then on Elita-1's page (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Elita-One_%28SG%29) the toy isn't even listed, and instead we have a toy for a completely different character listed? (Override GTS) ? --[[User:Mathius|Mathius]] 02:06, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:Learn about [[repurposing]]. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 02:12, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

I know what repurposing is, but when you have an official Elita-1 toy, why isn't it under the Elita-1 character page? Makes zero sense at all. --[[User:Mathius|Mathius]] 02:36, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:Because the goddamn toy is a goddamn repaint of a goddamn Arcee toy so it was goddamn repurposed as goddamn Arcee. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 02:38, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

Are you like 2 or something that you have to act like that? Shattered glass isn't even official except for a few botcon exclusives, right? It's a "virtual" toyline. It doesn't even exist. I can repurpose characters all day long, that doesn't make them canon. --[[User:Mathius|Mathius]] 02:44, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:You repurposing toys doesn't make it canon, but the authors of the official prose stories repurposing toys as various characters ''does''. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 02:47, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:Shattered Glass ''is'' official. Hasbro stamp of approval and everything. Just because you're too cheap to shell out the dough for membership doesn't make it fanfiction. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 02:48, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

Shattered glass the franchise, prose, etc. IS, the toy isn't. Period. By that logic if Furman came around and propose RID ultra magnus as a repaint of Furman Prime it would be official. When they do an official repaint of the toy and offer it for sale or as an exclusive, then it's official. Until then it's just a digibash or an idea in someone's head. But I'm not arguing logic anymore with someone who just cusses and throws out insults. If you say an official Elita-One toy belongs on an Arcee page, who am I to argue that logic. --[[User:Mathius|Mathius]] 02:52, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:It is official, actually, whether you find it silly or not. Especially when you consider that the repurposed characters either have descriptions or illustrations showing they're the toy in question. (Meanwhile, Furman's Primes don't.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 02:55, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:Hence why the Toy section mentions it's a ''repurposing''. And yes, if Furman had RID Ultra Magnus show up in fiction under the moniker Furman Prime, and it happened in an official Hasbro-approved story (like what Shattered Glass happens to be), ''it would count''. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 02:58, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

The very definition of repurposing which you guys linked to points out that it's unofficial "The repurposed character has no official toy release of his own" http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Repurpose Now I suggest you look up the word Rhetoric. --[[User:Mathius|Mathius]] 03:00, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:And I suggest you look up the term Arguing For Argument's Sake and then finish the quote from the article: "but the toy can take on double-duty representing both the character he was originally released as (the character on the box) and the repurposed character established later on in fiction." --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 03:03, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:"''Rhetoric: The art or study of using language effectively and persuasively''" (according to www.thefreedictionary.com). Aaaand ''how'' was that relevant to your argument, weak as it was? [[User:Bobpiecheese|Bobpiecheese]] 03:12, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

:I'm confused. Why are you saying the Elita 1 toy is not on the Elita 1 page when it [[Elita-One (Movie)#Transformers_.282007.29|clearly is]]? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 03:28, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
::He was talking about the toy not appearing on Elita-1's SG page (which wouldn't make sense anyway, since SG Elita-1 doesn't look like that) --[[Special:Contributions/89.138.184.102|89.138.184.102]] 09:20, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

'''I'm''' acting like a dick? I'm not the one cussing and whining like a 2 year old throwing a tantrum. And if I was a dick I'd have just made the edit instead of discussing it first. I don't expect you guys to understand what the difference between a fanboy and a normal person is. It's built into the definition of a fanboy that you are incapable of understanding when you're in the wrong. You guys are like little kids sitting in the sandbox with your "repurposing" nonsense saying "Let's pretend that Hot Rod is bumblee because Hasbro didn't make one." Seriously? You claim there's no "cliche", but then you throw around the words "our" and "we" etc. etc. and talk about your "system" that "I don't understand." If your system works so well then what's with the glaring inconsistencies? ('''YOUR''' repurposing page says they're unofficial, but you argue here that they are official. Whatever) If people are continually trying to edit pages and you're locking them so they can't be editted, OBVIOUSLY they want the information there. But you don't want it there so it can't be. But there's no cliche. Whatever. --[[User:Mathius|Mathius]] 14:25, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:The problem here isn't that we don't understand how we're in the wrong. The problem is that you only think we're wrong because you don't understand how things work and won't pay attention to our explanations trying to show you how they work.
:As for the repurposing, Detour already explained that you didn't pay attention to the whole quote: "The repurposed character has no official toy release of his own, '''but the toy can take on double-duty representing both the character he was originally released as (the character on the box) and the repurposed character established later on in fiction'''."
:On top of that, the descriptions in the prose and/or illustrations for the prose or comic clearly describe/show the character as being represented by that toy (since that's what the author/artist had in mind as being the official representation while doing their art/description).
:So if you want to actually understand how things work and then see if something genuinely doesn't make sense, then drop the attitude and listen and then comment. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:42, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
::I read what Detour wrote. You fail to recognize that the rest of the quote doesn't change anything as far as logic is concern. And I read the 'prose' stories (with the exception of reunification), they have few illustrations in them. Again you fail to see your system doesn't work and your logic is distorted. You're arguing to me that this toy looks like this character, but your own wiki page says there is no official image of this person. In other words, you justified whatthis person should look like based on a textual description and are trying to argue with me the accuracy of what is essentially someone's interpretation of the text.
::Does this phrase look familiar? "'''This character has no official visual representation whatsoever'''... yet, at least."
::Another point to make is that part of the "guidelines" for this is to provide sources. Where are the sources for your "repurposed" pretend figures if they're "official" ?--[[User:Mathius|Mathius]] 14:51, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:::"In other words, you justified whatthis person should look like based on a textual description and are trying to argue with me the accuracy of what is essentially someone's interpretation of the text."
:::Well, yes, seeing as how the interpretation we're basing it on is the author's interpretation. Seeing as how both authors are active on the message boards and actively edit this wiki, so they can say, "Yes, that was the toy we were describing."
:::And, that phrase refers to characters who don't have an official illustration yet. They can still have an official ''textual description'' (and thus an official repurposed toy said description was based on). --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 15:08, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

Then where is the link, hm? Where is the source?

"What's important is that this information should have been cleared through official channels. Hasbro's website is a valid source, as is IDW's. Preorder and inventory listings from established retailers, such as Toys "R" Us or Amazon, are also fair game. Information revealed by individuals involved in the production of Transformers, if it's revealed in an "official" venue ('''such as a printed article or a convention panel''') counts, '''but your behind-the-scenes talk with Aaron Archer at BotCon does not count.''' "--[[User:Mathius|Mathius]] 15:19, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

Talk:Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Victory (cartoon)

2010-06-06T18:54:29Z

Mathius:

Is the list of characters intended to be expanded to include ''all'' the characters that appeared in Victory? If so, including Wheeljack and Perceptor is fine. If not, they really don't feature enough to merit mention, I shouldn't think....--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 22:37, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
: I'm not sure an "Appearing Characters" is appropriate for this page. Imagine if we were consistent and did that also on the page for the original animated series! I think a better use of this information would be on individual episode pages. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 23:02, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
:: I'm inclined to agree, which is rather the point. I don't think Wheeljack or Perceptor feature anything like prominently enough in Victory to be on this page.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 23:18, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

It'd be nice to have some production notes, to shed some light into the background on the making of the series. [[User:Takeshi357|Takeshi357]] 12:15, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

== Franchise page? ==

Victory appears to lack a franchise page. Could someone-who-is-not-me please crib one together from the short Masterforce page or something? I'm otherwise occupied, which is the only reason I noticed its lack. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:33, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

How about that episode list? [[User:Takeshi357|Takeshi357]] 02:33, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
:[[List of Victory episodes|This]]? What about it? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 07:42, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
::Nothing, I already found it and added the link to the article. :P Now if someone could be arsed to write articles for the rest of the episodes...but who would take upon such a task? [[User:Takeshi357|Takeshi357]] 15:20, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

== Clip shows vs. Recap episodes ==

I've marked the clip shows in the episode list here... but I'm not ''entirely'' sure these are two seperate beasts.

McFeely put ''some'' of these direct-to-video clip shows between episodes, and a bunch more at the end of the series. I'm ''assuming'' that this is because the mid-quel clip shows are "Holi and Jan sit aroudn the base and remember when..." where the episodes themselves have a shell story (however minimal) that actually takes place 'here and now,' while the later ones identified simply as 'clip shows' do not.

Can someone confirm if I'm right in this belief? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:46, 20 July 2009 (EDT)
:That's because the ones between legitimate episodes aired as part of the series proper, while the ones at the end were released on home video. That, and it's how the Japanese compile their episode lists. We really just follow what they do. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 04:59, 20 July 2009 (EDT)
::ah, i was thrown by some of the early clip shows not having airdates. They're simply missign airdate then-- they don't lack them. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:00, 20 July 2009 (EDT)
:::To further clarify, ''none'' of the episodes have any kind of shell story - they are 100% clips presided over by omniscient narration. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 07:17, 20 July 2009 (EDT)
::::Excellent! Thank you Mr. McFeely! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 08:28, 20 July 2009 (EDT)

== Deathcobra ==

The Victory page is locked and there's no mention of Deathcobra in the cast list. http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Deathcobra {{unsigned|Mathius|00:19, 6 June 2010 (EDT)}}
:It's not a cast list, it's a ''main cast'' list. Deathcobra appeared in all of '''one''' episode. The page got locked speficially because people kept adding one-episode characters to the list. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 00:22, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

Oh I see. This is an encyclopedia that has only partial knowledge. {{unsigned|Mathius|01:48, 6 June 2010 (EDT)}}

:No this is a wiki that differentiates between legidimate major characters and hundreds of one-shot nobodies. Deathcobra is mentioned where he's relevant. Which is not the main Victory page. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 01:51, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

"One shot nobodies" are still characters in the universe. You have more information dedicated to characters who don't even have toys. If I hadn't watched the episodes I wouldn't even know about this guy because you don't include him unless someone reads each and every one of your episode summaries. {{unsigned|Mathius|01:54, 6 June 2010 (EDT)}}
:'''Oh no!''' We're not including characters outside of articles to which they are ''relevant!'' The audacity of it all!!! --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 02:16, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

:We only list main cast on the series pages to give a clear impression about who the main and recurring characters are. You could list Deathcobra and Old Tom and so on on the Victory page, but it would just obscure who the regular case of the series is. If you listed every single character in the Victory universe, you'd have to list every Masterforce, Headmasters and Generation 1 guy as well. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 02:24, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
::And if we listed every character who ever appeared, things would get too out of hand. We'd have things like "Security Guard from Roll for It" and "Seeker #9" --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 07:44, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

And yet "the pisser" is listed from dreamwave comics. Like I said, there's no point in arguing with you. Fanboys are the same the world over. They don't like anyone not in their little "cliche" and they can't handle when someone tells them their "world" doesn't make sense. {{unsigned|Mathius|12:31, 6 June 2010 (EDT)}}
:On which page? --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 12:40, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:There is no page which contains an overview of the characters appearing in the Dreamwave comics for "The Pisser" to be listed on. He is listed on a page which lists all the human characters in Generation 1 and the page describing the issue in which he appears; neither is analogous to the general ''Victory'' cartoon page, as this page does not attempt to list every incidental character that appeared over the course of the ''Victory'' series. It's possible that there ''should'' be a section listing every incidental from a given series on its page, but at present our pages are not set up in that way. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 12:44, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:I choose to eschew decency. ''Shut up and fuck off''. Deathcobra is not a main character, therefore he doesn't go in the "main cast". Stop looking for - and failing to find - comparative situations. I imagine you're the guy who's been trying to add all the do-nothing Mini-Cons to the Armada page, and the five-second Headmasters cameo characters to the Masterforce page. These were locked to ''stop'' this stupid shit, because ''it is stupid''. You can wail about how we're a "clique" (although how we're "fanboys" and you're not when you're hearing trying to edit the wiki as well, I don't know), but it will do you no good, because you are in the wrong. It's not changing. Go bitch about us on a messageboard or something - that's what every other retard who tries to add something fucking stupid to the wiki and then gets it reverted does. ''Cry about it some fucking more.'' - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 13:28, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:The problem isn't people telling us something doesn't make sense. The problem is someone trying to tell us something doesn't make sense before they take the time to learn how our system actually works and the reasoning behind it.
:Which it's clear from your comments here and on SG Arcee's page that you haven't taken that time, and instead of simply asking reasonable questions so you could learn, you felt the need to act like a dick. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 13:39, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

'''I'm''' acting like a dick? I'm not the one cussing and whining like a 2 year old throwing a tantrum. And if I was a dick I'd have just made the edit instead of discussing it first. I don't expect you guys to understand what the difference between a fanboy and a normal person is. It's built into the definition of a fanboy that you are incapable of understanding when you're in the wrong. You guys are like little kids sitting in the sandbox with your "repurposing" nonsense saying "Let's pretend that Hot Rod is bumblee because Hasbro didn't make one." Seriously? You claim there's no "cliche", but then you throw around the words "our" and "we" etc. etc. and talk about your "system" that "I don't understand." If your system works so well then what's with the glaring inconsistencies? ('''YOUR''' repurposing page says they're unofficial, but you argue here that they are official. Whatever) If people are continually trying to edit pages and you're locking them so they can't be editted, OBVIOUSLY they want the information there. But you don't want it there so it can't be. But there's no cliche. Whatever. --[[User:Mathius|Mathius]] 14:25, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:You are using "clique" to describe "group of people who actually follow the established rules and way of doing things of the site." And have not provided any kind of real explanation for why Deathcobra belongs in a section named "Main Cast". - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 14:31, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:The problem here isn't that we don't understand how we're in the wrong. The problem is that you only think we're wrong because you don't understand how things work and won't pay attention to our explanations trying to show you how they work.
:We explained to you why we don't list minor cameo characters on main fiction pages, and the places we do list them.
:As for the repurposing, Detour already explained that you didn't pay attention to the whole quote: "The repurposed character has no official toy release of his own, '''but the toy can take on double-duty representing both the character he was originally released as (the character on the box) and the repurposed character established later on in fiction'''."
:On top of that, the descriptions in the prose and/or illustrations for the prose or comic clearly describe/show the character as being represented by that toy (since that's what the author/artist had in mind as being the official representation while doing their art/description).
:So if you want to actually understand how things work and then see if something genuinely doesn't make sense, then drop the attitude and listen and then comment. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:42, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
These are not established RULES, these are just things that are done that way because you as a group have decided they are this way. I read the rules pages, I know very well what they say. The list of rules lists what is deemed official and unofficial content, behaviorial restrictions, etc. There is a GUIDELINE as to where the content should be listed and how, there are not a list of RULES that say the front page of an established series should have a listing of main characters only, nor deem who is a main character and who isn't. Deathcobra was only in one episode because he "DIED" in said episode, but he was certainly a main character FOR that episode. I need not remind you that the Sunstorm character didn't even have a name until E-Hobby decided that this "One Shot Nobody" was worthy of a second look. The point of the matter is, if I'm researching Victory and I know nothing about it, one of the first places I'm going to look is the character casting list. He's a character. He had a decent role. He's not in it. He's also one of only 8 breastforce characters which is significant as well.

I read what Detour wrote. You fail to recognize that the rest of the quote doesn't change anything as far as logic is concern. And I read the 'prose' stories (with the exception of reunification), they have few illustrations in them. Again you fail to see your system doesn't work and your logic is distorted. You're arguing to me that this toy looks like this character, but your own wiki page says there is no official image of this person. In other words, you justified whatthis person should look like based on a textual description and are trying to argue with me the accuracy of what is essentially someone's interpretation of the text.

Does this phrase look familiar? "'''This character has no official visual representation whatsoever'''... yet, at least."

Another point to make is that part of the "guidelines" for this is to provide sources. Where are the sources for your "repurposed" pretend figures if they're "official" ?--[[User:Mathius|Mathius]] 14:51, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

Talk:Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Victory (cartoon)

2010-06-06T18:51:15Z

Mathius:

Is the list of characters intended to be expanded to include ''all'' the characters that appeared in Victory? If so, including Wheeljack and Perceptor is fine. If not, they really don't feature enough to merit mention, I shouldn't think....--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 22:37, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
: I'm not sure an "Appearing Characters" is appropriate for this page. Imagine if we were consistent and did that also on the page for the original animated series! I think a better use of this information would be on individual episode pages. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 23:02, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
:: I'm inclined to agree, which is rather the point. I don't think Wheeljack or Perceptor feature anything like prominently enough in Victory to be on this page.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 23:18, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

It'd be nice to have some production notes, to shed some light into the background on the making of the series. [[User:Takeshi357|Takeshi357]] 12:15, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

== Franchise page? ==

Victory appears to lack a franchise page. Could someone-who-is-not-me please crib one together from the short Masterforce page or something? I'm otherwise occupied, which is the only reason I noticed its lack. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:33, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

How about that episode list? [[User:Takeshi357|Takeshi357]] 02:33, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
:[[List of Victory episodes|This]]? What about it? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 07:42, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
::Nothing, I already found it and added the link to the article. :P Now if someone could be arsed to write articles for the rest of the episodes...but who would take upon such a task? [[User:Takeshi357|Takeshi357]] 15:20, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

== Clip shows vs. Recap episodes ==

I've marked the clip shows in the episode list here... but I'm not ''entirely'' sure these are two seperate beasts.

McFeely put ''some'' of these direct-to-video clip shows between episodes, and a bunch more at the end of the series. I'm ''assuming'' that this is because the mid-quel clip shows are "Holi and Jan sit aroudn the base and remember when..." where the episodes themselves have a shell story (however minimal) that actually takes place 'here and now,' while the later ones identified simply as 'clip shows' do not.

Can someone confirm if I'm right in this belief? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:46, 20 July 2009 (EDT)
:That's because the ones between legitimate episodes aired as part of the series proper, while the ones at the end were released on home video. That, and it's how the Japanese compile their episode lists. We really just follow what they do. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 04:59, 20 July 2009 (EDT)
::ah, i was thrown by some of the early clip shows not having airdates. They're simply missign airdate then-- they don't lack them. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:00, 20 July 2009 (EDT)
:::To further clarify, ''none'' of the episodes have any kind of shell story - they are 100% clips presided over by omniscient narration. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 07:17, 20 July 2009 (EDT)
::::Excellent! Thank you Mr. McFeely! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 08:28, 20 July 2009 (EDT)

== Deathcobra ==

The Victory page is locked and there's no mention of Deathcobra in the cast list. http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Deathcobra {{unsigned|Mathius|00:19, 6 June 2010 (EDT)}}
:It's not a cast list, it's a ''main cast'' list. Deathcobra appeared in all of '''one''' episode. The page got locked speficially because people kept adding one-episode characters to the list. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 00:22, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

Oh I see. This is an encyclopedia that has only partial knowledge. {{unsigned|Mathius|01:48, 6 June 2010 (EDT)}}

:No this is a wiki that differentiates between legidimate major characters and hundreds of one-shot nobodies. Deathcobra is mentioned where he's relevant. Which is not the main Victory page. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 01:51, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

"One shot nobodies" are still characters in the universe. You have more information dedicated to characters who don't even have toys. If I hadn't watched the episodes I wouldn't even know about this guy because you don't include him unless someone reads each and every one of your episode summaries. {{unsigned|Mathius|01:54, 6 June 2010 (EDT)}}
:'''Oh no!''' We're not including characters outside of articles to which they are ''relevant!'' The audacity of it all!!! --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 02:16, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

:We only list main cast on the series pages to give a clear impression about who the main and recurring characters are. You could list Deathcobra and Old Tom and so on on the Victory page, but it would just obscure who the regular case of the series is. If you listed every single character in the Victory universe, you'd have to list every Masterforce, Headmasters and Generation 1 guy as well. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 02:24, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
::And if we listed every character who ever appeared, things would get too out of hand. We'd have things like "Security Guard from Roll for It" and "Seeker #9" --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 07:44, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

And yet "the pisser" is listed from dreamwave comics. Like I said, there's no point in arguing with you. Fanboys are the same the world over. They don't like anyone not in their little "cliche" and they can't handle when someone tells them their "world" doesn't make sense. {{unsigned|Mathius|12:31, 6 June 2010 (EDT)}}
:On which page? --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 12:40, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:There is no page which contains an overview of the characters appearing in the Dreamwave comics for "The Pisser" to be listed on. He is listed on a page which lists all the human characters in Generation 1 and the page describing the issue in which he appears; neither is analogous to the general ''Victory'' cartoon page, as this page does not attempt to list every incidental character that appeared over the course of the ''Victory'' series. It's possible that there ''should'' be a section listing every incidental from a given series on its page, but at present our pages are not set up in that way. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 12:44, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:I choose to eschew decency. ''Shut up and fuck off''. Deathcobra is not a main character, therefore he doesn't go in the "main cast". Stop looking for - and failing to find - comparative situations. I imagine you're the guy who's been trying to add all the do-nothing Mini-Cons to the Armada page, and the five-second Headmasters cameo characters to the Masterforce page. These were locked to ''stop'' this stupid shit, because ''it is stupid''. You can wail about how we're a "clique" (although how we're "fanboys" and you're not when you're hearing trying to edit the wiki as well, I don't know), but it will do you no good, because you are in the wrong. It's not changing. Go bitch about us on a messageboard or something - that's what every other retard who tries to add something fucking stupid to the wiki and then gets it reverted does. ''Cry about it some fucking more.'' - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 13:28, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:The problem isn't people telling us something doesn't make sense. The problem is someone trying to tell us something doesn't make sense before they take the time to learn how our system actually works and the reasoning behind it.
:Which it's clear from your comments here and on SG Arcee's page that you haven't taken that time, and instead of simply asking reasonable questions so you could learn, you felt the need to act like a dick. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 13:39, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

'''I'm''' acting like a dick? I'm not the one cussing and whining like a 2 year old throwing a tantrum. And if I was a dick I'd have just made the edit instead of discussing it first. I don't expect you guys to understand what the difference between a fanboy and a normal person is. It's built into the definition of a fanboy that you are incapable of understanding when you're in the wrong. You guys are like little kids sitting in the sandbox with your "repurposing" nonsense saying "Let's pretend that Hot Rod is bumblee because Hasbro didn't make one." Seriously? You claim there's no "cliche", but then you throw around the words "our" and "we" etc. etc. and talk about your "system" that "I don't understand." If your system works so well then what's with the glaring inconsistencies? ('''YOUR''' repurposing page says they're unofficial, but you argue here that they are official. Whatever) If people are continually trying to edit pages and you're locking them so they can't be editted, OBVIOUSLY they want the information there. But you don't want it there so it can't be. But there's no cliche. Whatever. --[[User:Mathius|Mathius]] 14:25, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:You are using "clique" to describe "group of people who actually follow the established rules and way of doing things of the site." And have not provided any kind of real explanation for why Deathcobra belongs in a section named "Main Cast". - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 14:31, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
:The problem here isn't that we don't understand how we're in the wrong. The problem is that you only think we're wrong because you don't understand how things work and won't pay attention to our explanations trying to show you how they work.
:We explained to you why we don't list minor cameo characters on main fiction pages, and the places we do list them.
:As for the repurposing, Detour already explained that you didn't pay attention to the whole quote: "The repurposed character has no official toy release of his own, '''but the toy can take on double-duty representing both the character he was originally released as (the character on the box) and the repurposed character established later on in fiction'''."
:On top of that, the descriptions in the prose and/or illustrations for the prose or comic clearly describe/show the character as being represented by that toy (since that's what the author/artist had in mind as being the official representation while doing their art/description).
:So if you want to actually understand how things work and then see if something genuinely doesn't make sense, then drop the attitude and listen and then comment. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:42, 6 June 2010 (EDT)
These are not established RULES, these are just things that are done that way because you as a group have decided they are this way. I read the rules pages, I know very well what they say. The list of rules lists what is deemed official and unofficial content, behaviorial restrictions, etc. There is a GUIDELINE as to where the content should be listed and how, there are not a list of RULES that say the front page of an established series should have a listing of main characters only, nor deem who is a main character and who isn't. Deathcobra was only in one episode because he "DIED" in said episode, but he was certainly a main character FOR that episode. I need not remind you that the Sunstorm character didn't even have a name until E-Hobby decided that this "One Shot Nobody" was worthy of a second look. The point of the matter is, if I'm researching Victory and I know nothing about it, one of the first places I'm going to look is the character casting list. He's a character. He had a decent role. He's not in it. He's also one of only 8 breastforce characters which is significant as well.

I read what Detour wrote. You fail to recognize that the rest of the quote doesn't change anything as far as logic is concern. And I read the 'prose' stories (with the exception of reunification), they have few illustrations in them. Again you fail to see your system doesn't work and your logic is distorted. You're arguing to me that this toy looks like this character, but your own wiki page says there is no official image of this person. In other words, you justified whatthis person should look like based on a textual description and are trying to argue with me the accuracy of what is essentially someone's interpretation of the text.

Another point to make is that part of the "guidelines" for this is to provide sources. Where are the sources for your "repurposed" pretend figures if they're "official" ?--[[User:Mathius|Mathius]] 14:51, 6 June 2010 (EDT)

Talk:Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Victory (cartoon)

2010-06-06T18:30:03Z

Mathius:

Talk:Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Victory (cartoon)

2010-06-06T18:27:28Z

Mathius:

Talk:Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Victory (cartoon)

2010-06-06T18:25:55Z

Mathius:

Talk:Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Victory (cartoon)

2010-06-06T16:31:19Z

Mathius:

Talk:Arcee (SG)

2010-06-06T07:00:53Z

Mathius:

Talk:Arcee (SG)

2010-06-06T06:52:48Z

Mathius:

Talk:Arcee (SG)

2010-06-06T06:44:12Z

Mathius:

Talk:Arcee (SG)

2010-06-06T06:36:55Z

Mathius:

Talk:Arcee (SG)

2010-06-06T06:06:59Z

Mathius: New page: I don't want to make this edit myself and remove information, but does it really make sense to have a pic of an Elita-1 toy on an Arcee page? And then on Elita-1's page (http://tfwiki.net...

Talk:Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Victory (cartoon)

2010-06-06T05:54:55Z

Mathius: /* Deathcobra */

Talk:Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Victory (cartoon)

2010-06-06T05:48:19Z

Mathius: /* Deathcobra */

Talk:Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Victory (cartoon)

2010-06-06T04:19:33Z

Mathius: /* Deathcobra */ new section