MediaWiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Cybertronian: The Unofficial Transformers Recognition Guide

2009-05-27T15:08:48Z

PTX-015R: /* Value of the books */

== Hi! ==
Hi guys,
PacifistPrime here with my third originated article. I hope you'll please contribute.

Personally I ''love'' these books (mags, whatever), even though they cost me a SERIOUS wad, having foolishly NOT bought them at the time due to their outrageous price even then. Oh foolish, foolish poppet... One of many such decisions my wallet has come to regret.

I'll try and get around to issue/volume summaries soon, but if anyone else wants to jump in first I'd be happy for you to do so.

Also, does anyone know what befell the series, i.e. why they stopped publishing with vol.1 of ''Beast Wars'', only to later put out the index? Also, as I don't have the Index myself, I don't really know why it was so unpopular. Anyone wanna dish in?

Anyway, hope you like it, and let me know what you think. Cheers! [[User:PacifistPrime|PacifistPrime]].

::I heard that much as Doug Dlin would like the magazine to continue, there are some logistics issues in getting all the right resources lined up at all the right times. I imagine a collection like the one used in the books doesn't come along every day, for a start! :) --[[User:Ratbat|Ratbat]] 12:38, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I skipped buying this too when it came out, 'cause I thought it was a little too costly... more fool I.

I don't see a problem with having this series of books having an entry, by the by. [[User:Dj convoy|Dj convoy]] 17:44, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

:Dreawave used them for reference material, no? -[[User:150.253.70.105|150.253.70.105]] 22:47, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

==Unofficial guide==

I am still unsure on whether we should be putting up pages like this on unofficial guides. I am inclined to delete it before this page becomes the precedent for putting up pages on every unofficial guide ever published. And there are a lot. And they shouldn't be on this wiki. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:52, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

: I've been unsure on this as well. It's that "slippery slope" deal again... as much as I LIKE the Cyb guides... we should probably delete this page. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:24, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

I dunno, I think the Cybertronian might be an exception. They at least got permission from Hasbro to use images and artwork of the actual characters and toys. Other books like Prime Targets couldn't even do that much and had to smatter ugly "generic" looking robots and vehicles all over the book. But that's just me. Do most other unofficial guides use official artwork and images? --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 20:31, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

I guess I'm just of the mind that wants to see an entry about these things, regardless of their official status (similarly, I'd want to see something about Prime Targets and the series of books J. Alverez has put together)... Whether Hasbro has placed the stamp of approval on these books or not, these are books that have been published about Transformers, which, to my mind, elevates them from being something more than a fanzine or whatever, and, therefore, makes them worthy of inclusion here. [[User:Dj convoy|Dj convoy]] 21:11, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

:I disagree, and I LIKE the Cybertronian guides. The Hasbro/Takara stamp IS important. I DON'T want a precedent for unofficial works getting pages, because then we're talking about every last Lee's or Tomarts or ToyFare or whatever that published an unlicensed TF whatever. The purpose of the wiki is to catalog the official stuff, and there's still tons more of that to go through that we don't have on here yet to even bother with unofficial items. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 21:30, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

I understand many users' wish to cover a fine piece of work like this guide on our Wiki, but I regretfully fall into the "slippery slope" camp with the other naysayers. If we are to cover *any* unofficial fanworks at all, we need to have a very clear and defensible demarcation between what we will and will not include. If a published book can be covered, does it matter whether it was made by a real publisher versus a vanity press? 
If we say "no fan works except books published on paper" does that include TransManual, which you can download as a PDF but was, at one time, printed out? How do we JUSTIFY allowing books, even if they are crappy, but excluding really well-made websites? People are going to ask these sorts of questions when they try to create an article for their favorite fan project and somebody tells them 'no'. What sort of division can we make among fanworks that isn't arbitrary? I would LIKE to have articles about things like unofficial conventions, the major discussion boards, TransMasters, etc., but I don't know how to allow those sorts of article without making up totally broken guidelines for what to include and what not to, like Wikipedia's "notability" criterion. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 21:45, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
: Bingo, especially the note about Wikipedia. I think it's less crummy to cut out any and all unofficial product (unofficial stuff can be MENTIONED on pages when exceptionally relevant, like how Macromasters is noted on Don F's page or "Chronicles" on Ichikawa's, though neither of those items should have their own pages) than to either 1) Open the doors to every unlicensed TF-based whatever ever or B) get ourselves embroiled in arguments over Who We Like Gets To Be In The Wiki. Both, I feel, defeat the purpose of the enterprise. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 21:58, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
::Would've thought the main purpose of the enterprise might be to provide a useful resource to fans. (And if there's enough information to justify a separate page, isn't it better to split to a separate page to improve readability?) A published retail work with an ISBN and specific focus on TFs is hardly comparable to a fansite. --[[User:Denyer|Denyer]] 19:21, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Bumping... we should maybe, you know, make the call on this. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 07:19, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

:I say we have a single [[Unofficial guidebooks]] article, and move this content to there, and we can (potentially) also list other guidebooks there. One article for all of them, sort of like the Tonka GoBots or unofficial conventions or something. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 13:40, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
::I agree with this. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:00, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
:::Thirded. --[[User:Sntint|Sntint]] 16:09, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
::::Fourth'd. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 18:58, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

== Deletion/merge ==

While (as always) I realize we're not Wikipedia, in my mind it's sound policy to split off articles if there's enough material to merit a full article. This article seems to demonstrate such and would just make the unofficial guidebooks article rather unwieldy if merged.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 19:36, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

: And I think it's sound policy to not go into such length for unofficial products. Again, where does it end? Why is ''Cybertronian'' exempt, and why not have gigantic pages on every other unofficial guide? Cyb should get a paragraph on a "bulk" page for Unofficial Guides, maybe a second to note the links to official things (reused artwork or cover artists who have done official TF work), and leave it at that. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:41, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

::Agreed. Despite being a big fan of ''Cybertronian'', I dislike the idea of starting a precedent where unofficial things can have enough written about them here that they warrant their own articles. If nothing else, it would make it very hard to fairly prevent articles for unofficial things we ''don't'' like, such as crappy guidebooks, random regional fan gatherings, etc.. (Although saying that suddenly leaves me wondering whether the [[alt.toys.transformers]] article should exist or be merged into [[Fandom]] or something...)--[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 15:57, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

:::Hi, Paci here. I state from the outset my bias, in that I originated this article. Anyway, I understand all the problems people are having with the issue of precedent, but I think this should merit an exception. Firstly, as noted earlier by DrSpengler, it was actually "semi-approved" in the sense that they gained Hasbro's permission to use the images, which clearly indicates the level to which it was a condoned publication, albeit "unofficial". Secondly, for whatever it's worth, several of the original cover artworks have been "retconned official" by their inclusion in the book ''[[Genesis: The Art of Transformers |Genesis]]''. But also, I think that it has a modestly significant place in TransFandom, as the first major English-language comprehensive reference text on the franchise, predating the Dreamwave-spearheaded wave of retro interest in G1 Transformers. As noted in the article, ''Cybertronian'' is believed to have influenced later official publications, and stands as an extremely well-researched, professionally produced guide made with implicit consent by Hasbro.
:::I would argue that the article deserves to stay, clearly noted as belonging in the [[Fandom]] category. After all, if we can have an article on [[unofficial guidebooks]] in general, then surely there is little cogent argument to support deleting (or merging and drastically reducing) a standalone article on a work of ''Cybertronian'''s stature? If we can have standalone articles on totally unofficial things like [[Alt.toys.transformers]] as Steve-o pointed out (not to mention the various "joke" pages like [[JaAm]], [[Seafood Louis]] etc. or descriptions of fan-phenomena like [[Ruined FOREVER]] or [[Toy scalping]] etc.), then I think the horse has bolted.
:::Frankly I think this speaks somewhat to the question of '''what is this wiki's purpose?''' If it is ''only'' concerned with cataloging official HasTak product, then by that argument pretty much '''everything''' in the Fandom category should be deleted or merged. If, however, it is a resource for Trasformers Fans that includes the wider tapestry of significant elements in the Transformers zeitgeist/meta-text (which is what Teletraan 1 certainly ''seems'' to be intended as), then I think a solo article on ''Cybertronian'' most certainly has its place here.
:::Anyway, that's my two cents (personal bias noted).[[User:PacifistPrime|PacifistPrime]][[User:PacifistPrime|PP]] 02:31, 4 May 2008 (UTC).

::::Wow! I'm a recent contributor, and as opposed to lurking started contributing straight away. However, I was immediately struck by the amount of censorship that was applied to this wiki. I think this discussion on the Cybertronians highlights that there are several schools of thought about the purpose of this wiki, yet it seems that the moderators collectively belong to just one school really.

::::My opinion on the wiki, is that it should include EVERY possible scrap of information about Transformers. Pretend, for the moment, that a Martian (or a Human that has NEVER heard/seen TF) lands on earth and discovers these fascinating transforming robots. It's not too difficult to imagine, as most of us can remember our first experiences. Now say he wants to bring back a book (in English, it's a well known fact Martian brain physiology can only cope with European languages) to show all the other Martians. Or to bring back a book archiving all the Transformers, as he'll never get back to see them again. Where would he find details on such a book? Google would help, sure. But a resource, say this wiki, that had set to be the most complete repository of information would be good place to start. What this wiki has, that most other sites don't is things like behind-the-scenes info on licensing, trademarks, economics, unpublished and unreleased items etc etc. Other than scrolling through forums, you can't get all that info anywhere else. Who are we (you) to decide what information should be witheld?

::::I appreciate that to open up the door to all info is likely result in a flood of crappy fan fiction, baseless gossip and crappy customs. Personally I feel some of the character profiles start with juvenile humour bios that equate to fanwank anyhow. Thus the antithesis of the "only official" argument would to replace all the bios with the official ones. I'm not suggesting this, but official-ness is really a spectrum rather than a yes-no thing. Check out he [[continuity]] aticle as proof that even HasTak, Marvel, IDW etc show no respect for their own previous work.

::::I would like to hav this wiki reference every USEFUL bit of trivia. This includes a lot of unofficial resources such as Botch's site, TFW2005, Tformers.com, TFU.info, Prime Targets book, JE Alaveres' books (as his was the first), the [http://s90690880.onlinehome.us/jhiaxus/| Obscure TF website] and Bigbot.com. I would also like to see it reference some of the best comedy tributes such as LILFORMERS and the [http://www.cybertronenquirer.co.uk/| Cybetron Enquirer]. And I especiall would like to see i include these Cybertronians. I have all of them, but even I didn't know some of the background info until today. So I say: KEEP THIS ARTICLE!

::::Incidentally, has anyone considered the other wikis. The Star Trek one has the Official-only Memory Alpha. But they also have Memory Beta to inlude the (mostly awful) novels and books. And I think there is a Memory Gamma for fan-fiction. A similar thing could be applied here: '''Teletraan 1 for official stuff, Teltraan 2 for unofficial stuff (websites, reference works, novels, games etc), Teletraan 3 for fan-fiction, Teletraan 4 for customs etc etc'''. Just a thought. [[User:Drmick|Drmick]] 13:32, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

:::

== Value of the books ==
Just wondering, are the comments about the (alleged) value of these books really necessary? The caption under the picture and second paragraph in the Trivia section are what I refer to. Having bought all of the books over the past year for well under the $24.95 list price (including shipping to Europe, even) on eBay it seems to be a gross exaggeration, not to mention inappropriate for a wiki to try and factually state something as relative as the value of collectibles. --[[User:PTX-015R|PTX-015R]] 11:08, 27 May 2009 (EDT)

Classics (Europe)

2009-05-27T11:40:53Z

PTX-015R: Added details on variations between Classic Streetwise/Sandstorm/Throttlebots and the originals

{{disambig3|Classics}}
'''Classics''' is a Transformer toyline from the later days of [[The Transformers (toyline)|Generation 1]].

In 1990 and 1991, the toy market in Australia and Europe saw many re-releases of earlier Transformers toys. The new packaging was gold-coloured and bore the subtitle 'Classics' for the UK, Scandinavian, Dutch and French markets (Spain and Italy omitted the title "Classic" from the packaging). Unlike the [[Classics (2006)|US-originated Classics line of 2006-2007]], the characters' toys bore little (if, indeed, any) change from their previous releases. The toys released in 1990 even still bore [[rubsigns]], even though the 'standard' lines had ceased this practice by 1988. The 1991 toys featured rubsign indents but no longer sported rubsigns. They were also retooled to block out details stating the original year of manufacture and the original country of manufacture.

Is has been suggested, that the toys produced for this line originate from the same production run and facilities of the [[Generation 1 China (toyline)|chinese Generation 1 line]].

==Releases==
===1990===
====Autobots====
'''Classic Heroes'''

:[[Sunstreaker (G1)|Sunstreaker]]
:[[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]]
:[[Ironhide (G1)|Ironhide]]
:[[Inferno (G1)|Inferno]]
:[[Jazz (G1)|Jazz]]
:[[Prowl (G1)|Prowl]]

{{note|Oddly enough, "Classic" Prowl was available with stickers sporting the name "[[Diaclone]]", unlike all previous or subsequent versions of the toy available as part of a Transformers line.}}
'''Classic [[Aerialbot (G1)|Aerialbots]]'''

:[[Silverbolt (G1)|Silverbolt]]
:[[Skydive (G1 Aerialbot)|Skydive]]
:[[Air Raid (G1)|Air Raid]]
:[[Fireflight (G1)|Fireflight]]
:[[Slingshot]]

====Decepticons====
'''Classic [[Stunticon|Stunticons]]'''

:[[Motormaster]]
:[[Drag Strip]]
:[[Breakdown (G1)|Breakdown]]
:[[Wildrider]]
:[[Dead End (G1)|Dead End]]

===1991===
====Autobots====
'''Original Autobot Leader'''

:[[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]

{{note|Optimus Prime actually isn't called a "Classic" anywhere on the packaging. Instead, he's called "''Original'' Autobot Leader". However, since he's a reissue of an original toy from 1984 that's available in the same kind of packaging as the various "Classic" reissues from the same year, he's generally considered to be part of the "Classic" line, rather than being the single release from a one-of-a-kind sub-line named "Original".}}
'''Classic Heroes'''

:[[Sideswipe (G1)|Sideswipe]]
:[[Tracks (G1)|Tracks]]

'''Classic [[Protectobot (G1)|Protectobots]]'''

:[[Hot Spot (G1)|Hot Spot]]
:[[Streetwise (G1)|Streetwise]]
{{note|Streetwise was retooled to make the light bar an extension of the roof painted red, instead of being separately cast in red plastic as with the original.}}
:[[Groove (G1)|Groove]]
:[[First Aid (G1)|First Aid]]
:[[Blades]]

'''Classic [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobots]]'''

:[[Grimlock (G1)|Grimlock]]
:[[Sludge (G1)|Sludge]]
:[[Snarl (G1)|Snarl]]

'''Classic [[Triple Changer|Triple Changers]]'''

:[[Springer (G1)|Springer]]
:[[Sandstorm (G1)|Sandstorm]]
{{note|Unlike the initial 1986 release with metal toes painted orange, and the running change with solid orange plastic toes, the Classic reissue sported black plastic toes painted orange.}}

'''Classic [[Throttlebot|Throttlebots]]'''

:[[Bumblebee (G1)|Goldbug]]
:[[Rollbar (G1)|Rollbar]]
:[[Wide Load]]
:[[Chase (G1)|Chase]]
:[[Freeway]]
:[[Searchlight]]
{{note|All of the Throttlebots were retooled to have their rubsign indents removed.}}

====Decepticons====
'''Classic [[Combaticon|Combaticons]]'''

:[[Onslaught (G1)|Onslaught]]
:[[Blast Off]]
:[[Vortex (G1)|Vortex]]
:[[Brawl (G1)|Brawl]]
:[[Swindle (G1)|Swindle]]

'''Classic Triple Changers'''

:[[Astrotrain (G1)|Astrotrain]]
:[[Octane]]

==Australian exclusives==
Additionally, Australia saw the limited release of several toys in their original G1 packaging, but they were also retooled to block out the original year of manufacture and the original country of manufacture. These releases included:

===Autobots===
:[[Blaster (G1)|Blaster]]

===Decepticons===
:[[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]]
:[[Ramjet (G1)|Ramjet]]
:[[Scourge (G1)|Scourge]]
:[[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave (with Buzzsaw)]]
:[[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]]

==Fiction==
*While not officially branded or recognised as 'Classics' fiction, the [[Earthforce]] stories in the Marvel UK comic were inspired by, and responding to, the reissues.

==External links==
*[http://www.cliffbee.com/aussietf.htm Information about Australian and European G1 releases at Cliffbee.com]

[[Category:Toys]]
[[Category:Generation 1]]

Talk:Gold Plastic Syndrome

2009-05-13T15:34:40Z

PTX-015R:

About TM megs, I think the plastic used has some form of GPScombined with problems with stress. From what I've found, the ''Beast Wars Metals'' Metals Megatron does not have the problems Hasbro's TM megatron has, nor does ''Armada'' Predacon. That, and the post common breaking points on toys with GPS are stressed areas like joints, pegs, and fist holes. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 15:47, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I've been talking with Kyde, and he says that ABS plastic is the kind that GPS affects. (Versus PVC or nylon). I'll bug 'im to research it a bit more. You know, find out what causes the "swirlies." --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:24, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:Might not be the right answer, but my hypothesis is that the fillers and paint added to the plastic don't mix entirely right, like oil and water, and over time either chemically seperate or oxidize, leaving behind a messy gold powder and broken childhood memories. [[User:70.161.57.72|70.161.57.72]] 03:33, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Having talked with a few people who have snapped Megatrons, the breaks on that toy all sound very clean to me, and sound liek a "Gradual pressure" situation. As such, I can only conclude that the original TM Megatrons simply had the wrong kind of plastic for that joint, one that would not stand up to the constant pressure applied in transformation, not "bad" plastic. And as the article notes, GPS breaks are anything but clean... I've got a few toys that suffer from it... virtually all of them were like-new (being either purchased in sealed bubbles or were obvious display pieces), and they CRUMBLED near-instantly. There was no give, no pressure, just *turn * *CRUNCH* *flinders*. I'll be taking pictures of my GPS-affected Roadblock to illustrate. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:49, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:Will one of those pictures be used to illustrate this article? (I suppose for aesteric purposes, it should be a picture of Electro...)-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 06:26, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

::No, I thought I'd just let it sit on my hard drive and I'd never show anyone. What the fuck do you THINK I even brought it UP for? --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 09:58, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:::Hey, I take notes and snap all sorts of TF related stuff and just have it sit on my hard drive. Mostly out of laziness for actualyl doing anythign with it. The Wiki is funt hat way- it's so much less WORK to put it up someplace... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 12:00, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

RE: Joes: I clearly remember seeing posts in the Joe fandom, I forget where, though, that Serpentor suffered from GPS, and that one guy had Serpentor's entire thigh assembly collapse into dust and shards. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 23:16, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

== Skyquake ==

Does anyone know if the Predator Skyquake (aside from the missile launcher) suffers from GPS? I've been wanting to get all of the Predators and Turbomasters, but since I like to play with my TFs, I don't want to spend a lot of money on one who will crumble apart when I pick it up. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 16:06, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

:Skyquake isn't actually gold. That deeper bronzey color plastic is not at all known for disintegrating, although Skyquake IS notable for breaking off Predator gun handles because of his giant deep fists and overall mass going up against the same tiny pegs his little friends have.

(It is HILARIOUS that Siph hasn't actually uploaded those pictures of Roadblock ten months later.) -[[User:LV|LV]] 16:57, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
: Thanks. Do you know if the Predator launchers get GPS? The launcher from my Stalker broke at the trigger, but I'm not sure if it was GPS or just because it was old hard plastic that really should have had a hinge to push the trigger. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 21:17, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

::"That deeper bronzey color plastic is not at all known for disintegrating" - I appreciate it was said two years ago, but *what*? Skyquake's supersight contraption breaks ludicrously easily, without warning or stress marks.--[[User:PTX-015R|PTX-015R]] 11:34, 13 May 2009 (EDT)

== Couple'a questions... ==

With the new Movie figures coming out, I've noticed Starscream has the characteristic streaks of color that are evident in toys that suffer from GPS. So what I'm wondering is a) do the swirls only appear in the ABS grade plastics, or so they appear in PVC as well? and b) What is the general life-span of a toy that suffers this lamentable condition? [[User:Dracokanji|Dracokanji]] 12:51, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I forgot to mention in the above post that I noticed Energon Starscream's transparent green wings seem to suffer from GPS. I myself rarely used the hinge on the wings used for the missile launchers (considering I LOST one of the missiles... ) but one day I noticed a break in the plastic around where the pin that holds it in place was situated. It didn't look like a stress fracture, but more like plastic rot. If anyone else has noticed this, maybe it should be added to the main article.

:There's already been one reported case of a Protoform Starscream suffering from a GPS-like disintegration, but that user added extra paint details using some kind of paint markers, which may have accelerated or enhanced the process. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 17:47, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

::Yeah. Enamel paints can have odd chemical effects on certain TF plastics. I painted an old Tracks black about a decade back, and the paint made the blue car-panel parts all gummy. I'm disinclined to think Protoscream will have issues unless you start adding chemicals into his mix. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:42, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

::I forgot to mention one last thing. Is there any way to prevent the plastic from deteriorating? I don't do custom painting, so that won't be a problem. What I am worried about is if oxidation has something to do with it, and how long older figures (g1, beast wars, etc.) lasted before turning to powder. [[User:Dracokanji|Dracokanji]] 01:32, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

==Thunder Clash==
Okay, I see Thunder Clash got pulled off the list, but I'm going to dispute that one. Mine in particular, which I keep in the box 95% of the time, cleanly (no whiteness) snapped off both ratchet tabs within the feet a couple years back. A year after the right fist split cleanly on the inside (also without whiteness). I'm terrified to touch the handgun. This sure as hell sounds like GPS to me, don't you think?--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 07:06, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

:Yeah, TC is a textbook example of GPS. That's the whole reason why his gun is impossible to find. I don't remember anyone's lasting more than a few months "back in the day". The missile launcher bays are also known to just fall apart, as well as the tabs inside his feet.. --[[User:PTX-015R|PTX-015R]] 11:34, 13 May 2009 (EDT)

== Seibertron's Slingshot gallery ==

Seibertron's G2 Slingshot gallery has come pics of a very broken one. We might want to use one of those for the main pic. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 03:22, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

== Variants==
Can a similar form of GPS happen to Alternators? My Rarley played with Hound Alternator is showing MAJOR signs of stress all over, especially on the shiny green areas. He is one of my favorite figures, I really don't want him to break :([[User:AutobotFreak643|AutobotFreak643]] 19:09, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
:GPS breaks don't show stress marks.--[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 20:05, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
::Worth noting though that it's only called "Gold Plastic Syndrome" because that's the most common plastic to show the classic symptoms. It's really a problem with ''any'' swirly/metallic plastic.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 20:10, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
:::That's something else - other shiny/metallic plastic is more prone to *breaking* due to stress, yes. Looking at you, TM Megatron, but it's not the sort of "randomly crumble into flinders/dust out of nowhere" behavior that GPS specifically refers to. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 19:25, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
::::Right. GPS is CRUMBLING like dried-out clay, not snapping. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 21:35, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

== UT Optimus Prime ==

You haven't really specified ''which'' UT Optimus Prime has GPS. You say "Leader Class," but there isn't a toy from that entire franchise family that has metallic plastic for its fists. Can you be more specific?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:51, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
:Of course, the simple answer is that none of them have GPS, unless the K-Mart super base version's cab starts exploding.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 13:55, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::Armada leader prime,his arms suffer from GPS. Who keeps removing the info about protoform starscream? [[User:Rhinox555|Decepticon Rhinox]] 22:22, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Armada leader prime had no gold plastic on him, just gold paint applications.. Even the K-Mart super base version didn't have any on the ''arms''. As for Starscream, the only confirmed cases of him showing symptoms are on custom figures who have been repainted.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 22:33, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
::::His cab's arms crumbled on mine for no reason. :-(. [[User:Rhinox555|Decepticon Rhinox]] 22:36, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Superbase Prime does indeed have gold plastic, most notably the cab elbow joints, supermode "ears" and minicon-activated blasters, but he does not suffer from GPS. GPS breaks are uneven and leave plastic dust and plastic shards. They also do not leave white marks on the plastic since GPS isn't a stress fracture. I don't have my Superbase Prime in front of me, but I'm pretty sure his gold plastic is unpaintable, meaning it isn't the type of plactic that can be affected. Also, there has been exactly ONE case of Protoform Starscream disintegrating, and it was a figure the owner had painted. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 22:59, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::My prime did not have stressmarks either,it just shattered for no reason. [[User:Rhinox555|Decepticon Rhinox]] 08:00, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

== Torca & Killbison ==

Does he actually have GPS? All I've seen are ones with a snapped tail joint. Also, I've heard varying reports on whether Killbison actually has GPS or not. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 19:06, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Gold Plastic Syndrome

2009-05-13T15:23:40Z

PTX-015R: Added Thunder Clash to GPS list.

[[Image:GPSSlingshot.jpg|right|250px|thumb|Emoformer: He breaks himself.]]
'''Gold Plastic Syndrome''' (commonly shorthanded to '''GPS''') is fandom terminology used to describe the phenomenon of a toy's [[plastic]]
decomposing and becoming brittle to the point of shattering or
crumbling under minimal-stress conditions. In the most extreme cases,
toys have been reported to spontaneously crumble to small bits without
any applied force at all, even if they're fresh out of their [[MISB|unopened package]].

This breakage is different from the relatively more common stress-fracture type of plastic breakage that can occur in some [[Toy|Transformers toys]].
All noted instances of GPS have occurred in hard, glossy gold-colored
plastics that appear to have a "swirl" to their coloration.

==Notability==
GPS is notably widespread among toys made in the tail-end of [[Generation 1]], typically the second year of [[Pretender|Pretenders]] and even some European-market exclusives, but examples have surfaced from lines as recent as ''[[Generation 2]]'' and the ''[[Beast Wars (toyline)|Beast Wars]]'' series. Transformers toys are not the only ones to suffer from this; there have been reports of ''[[G.I. Joe]]'' and ''Visionaries'' toys' gold plastics also crumbling seemingly of their own accord.

==Cause of GPS==

{{bigquote|The problem likely arises, as with many composites, when the bonding between the polymer and the dye/particles breaks down. This could occur do to a natural chemical/phase change of the plastic, due to oxidation, for example, or by another mechanism, say the forces incurred by the toy being played with, or more likely, due to some combination thereof. In any case, when the bonds between the particles and the polymers break down, you would get small voids in the plastic structure. If this occurs frequently enough, the structure would become effectively porous (that is, it would be filled with lots of tiny voids/cracks where the polymers and particles have come apart). With even a slight amount of force, some of these cracks/voids could expand, even slightly, to the point where they intersect another void and join, making an even bigger crack. Once a critical crack length is reached, the sample fractures.

So effectively, the plastic becomes more brittle, and this would also explain it "crumbling" as well as cracking.}}
:-Aernaroth suggests a cause for GPS [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=57191&view=findpost&p=1174876 on the Allspark]

==GPS misconceptions==
[[Image:Brownplasticsyndrome.jpg|right|250px|thumb|The one image for the wiki you don't want to be able to make.]]
The most common misconception about GPS is that ''all''
gold-colored plastic can suffer from this rot. Only certain plastic
grades (described above) have been noted to be susceptible to GPS
crumbling; in the past few years, more durable, pliable plastics have
become the norm for toy construction, so the gold plastic on more
recent toys like [[Cannonball]] are highly unlikely to have the flaw.

Also, not every type of plastic breakage is the kind caused by
GPS. In most instances of broken toys, visible stress marks appear long
before any breakage in the form of discoloration (since these plastics
have a bit more "give" to them), and are typically very clean "snaps"
due to excess pressure.
Even if not subject to "true" GPS breakage, older gold
plastics tend to be rather brittle and more likely than most to snap
under relatively light stresses. But "true" GPS breakages seemingly
come from simple decomposition of the plastic without any form of
excess force at all, and the breaks tend to leave shards of plastic and
dust, appearing similar to dry Play-Doh crumbling.

Additionally, it is not limited to gold plastic. Some other
older metally-swirled plastics may also suffer. However, it is far less
common and is possibly related, though it is just as likely (such as
Transmetal Megatron) that it is simply cast out of more easily broken
plastic.
{{-}}
==Toys commonly associated with Gold Plastic Syndrome==
====Generation 1====
* [[Scorponok (G1)|BlackZarak]]
* [[Bristleback]]
* [[Roadblock (G1)|Roadblock]]
* [[Skyhammer (G1)|Skyhammer]]
* [[Slog]]
* [[Killbison]]
* [[Thunder Clash]]

====Generation 1-2 Transitional Phase====
* [[Pyro]]

====Generation 2====
* [[Electro]]
* [[Slingshot]]
(Slingshot is infamous for being made almost entirely of gold plastic,
and has been reported to come apart straight out of the package [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/msg/2b8b3dec846e5479?hl=en].)

====Beast Wars====
* [[Grimlock (G1)|Grimlock]]
* [[Randy (BWN)|Randy]]
* [[Silverbolt (G1)|Silverbolt]]
* [[Torca]] - His legs, tail hinge and sides are prone to Gold Plastic Syndrome.
* NOT Transmetal Megatron. He suffers from something different entirely: Brown Plastic Syndrome.

====Other notable instances====
* [[Predator]] [[missile]] launchers
* [[Serpentor]], while not a Transformer, is also known to suffer from this problem.

==Clear Plastic Syndrome==
There is a similar condition in figures made with translucent and
transparent colored plastics. Though it doesn't seem anywhere near as
bad as Gold Plastic Syndrome (which can affect ANY part of a figure),
it seems to affect mostly the joints, either pivot or ball versions.
The main cause of this is the higher friction ratio the plastic has
(pin joints seem to be more susceptible) and the lower flexibility of
the plastic. Some toys were made entirely of clear plastic and didn't
fare much better than ones made entirely of gold plastic. Sorry, [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]].

==Etymology==
The earliest use of the term that can be found in the
alt.toys.transformers archives dates to September 2002 in a post by
user Sky Shadow [http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt.toys.transformers/msg/2b3d532961b2c2dc],
though it is unclear from his usage of the term whether or not it was
already in use. A post by Dave "Zobovor" Edwards, meanwhile, made in
June of the previous year,[http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt.toys.transformers/msg/6ed7e0f3586f37e4], is the earliest identifiable acknowledgment of the widespread nature of the phenomenon within the Transformers fan community.

[[Category:Diseases]]
[[Category:Toys]]