https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/api.php?action=feedcontributions&feedformat=atom&user=Primal+RageMediaWiki - User contributions [en]2026-07-07T23:09:32ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.45.3https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Primal_Rage&diff=394956User talk:Primal Rage2009-11-24T14:20:03Z<p>Primal Rage: /* The Evidence */</p>
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<div>==Past talk==<br />
Eire and Detour's reasoning is sound. The stub template encourages people to contribute to the article which lacks information. By providing a, let's face it, rather short and cursory passage that basically says "The good guys arrive somewhere. Stuff happens and they fight the bad guys. They win, and leave", people are less likely to take the time to complete the article, because people are less inclined to completely rewrite somebody else's work, no matter how little information it conveys. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:51, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
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No long description exists that I can find, nor even a translation into english. If you have some english translation I will provide a longer description. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 15:10, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:In that case you *PROBABLY* pad out the synopsis with more detailed descriptions of things happening so you can get at least a few paragraphs, but leave the stub tags around, and perhaps even a <nowiki>((cleanup|date|insert description here}}</nowiki> saying this synopsis was done without the benefit of translated text. Or doing this may offend our staff and regular users, heh. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:55, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
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:I never removed the stub notice in the first place, I just added a couple sentences of overview, and it got delted. Yet somehow the people deleting it failed to offer anything better. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 22:17, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:(re: claims on FFN's talk page) You ''did'' remove the stub notice, mignash. Check your edit history. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:31, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::(You're supposed to keep all talk page replies on the one page so the conversation can be followed on a single page, as opposed to multiple pages on multiple windows/tabs.) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::Thanks! I hadn't seen that left it in this time. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 12:28, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
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Please, stop your edit war on [[Rook (SG)]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:44, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:I agree. Please remove political commentaries. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::Okay, since you seem to be missing the point let me say that if you remove that one more time without getting some other users to support you, I am giving you a time-out. Right now, the majority seem to be in favor of the caption.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::It seems' It's Walky blocked me ANYWAYS, even if I didn't change it again. His reason for blocking seems to be because I'm me. What's up with that? [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:26, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You know, I searched for a Transformers wiki years ago, ultimately leading to the creation of this place, because some dude named "mignash" was such a pain on Wikipedia. Such a pain. He was so big of a pain that he was even banned from there for a time! So no, you're not allowed. Neither you nor your fun political insanities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::THANK YOU. I do not want edit-wars all over Shattered Glass. <br />
:::::(Believe it or not, now I feel embarrassed about supporting his bid to include a mention of the Seekers on the Wikipedia article on the F-15 Eagle.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:36, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::What political insanities? Because I added a comment on Obama, which isn't even that bad? Rosicrucian asked me not to revert the page any more and I did as asked. so it seems you are into banning people you don't like? --[[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:41, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::No, that's just how I knew it was you, rather than some other harmless anom merely obsessed with Shattered Glass. So you're going, exactly because you're you, because you're not allowed here. '''TFwiki.net exists to avoid Matthew Ignash'''. That's specifically why the original Wikia site was sought by me, so we could have a Transformers Wiki safe from your edit wars. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::I wasn't aware you created and owned the site. Sorry to intrude on your private property. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:49, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
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==Current members talk==<br />
While Walky could have perhaps put it more tactfully, he's certainly hit upon something that is a critical difference between the Wikipedia dynamic and the atmosphere here. At Wikipedia, there is continual dynamic tension between the policy wonks and those that are passionate about the subject matter. In fact at Wikipedia it's not uncommon to have someone who is ''entirely uninterested'' in the subject matter of an article, and just enforcing policy. Sometimes the policy wonks win, and an article gets locked down in the "correct" form. Sometimes they give up, allowing an editor to set up what amounts to a little fiefdom in a collection of articles. Here, though? Well, for one the default assumption is that we're ''all'' passionate about the subject matter, even if we take it with varying degrees of seriousness. We're here, right? Second, we're much looser policy-wise. Most of our policy documents have evolved within the past year or two, and are mainly just setting down in text things that we've agreed on in the past. It's much more "D&D house rules" than "Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?" As a result we'll almost ''never'' sanitize an article to fit one user's complaints, unless they can justify that it's getting in the way of the information the article is supposed to present.<br />
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I tend to think the two approaches are night and day, and you're not the first user to run afoul of the general community atmosphere by trying to edit here the same way he does at Wikipedia. I don't know if I agree with Walky blocking you permanently, but he ''is'' the guy who helped facilitate the move off of Wikia, onto his own hosting no less, and even though we've moved hosting since then he's still been instrumental in keeping things running, including picking up the slack when the advertising doesn't cover our hosting bills. He has done some of the "heavy lifting," so to speak and for the most part he's a reasonable guy. In this case, he's ''exactly right'' that you're exhibiting some behaviors that don't really work with how this wiki has operated. Maybe he didn't explain that in a way that's satisfying to you, but I can honestly say that if you had continued your pattern of edits I would have blocked you myself, if not for Rook then for something else. If you're ever to be ''un''blocked, these are behaviors that would need to be fixed. Some people get the benefit of the doubt because of how much time and sweat they've invested in the place. You haven't earned that yet.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 11:56, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:Agreed, I have not earned it yet. That's why I made my proposal. I cann't earn the respect if I cannot post, so I am offering my "pledge" and ask for the ability to earn the respect. As I proposed, i will not edit voluntarely for ONE WEEK. I will then attempt to only make edits within my pledge, and with (hopefully) the blessing of the majority of the users here in an appropriate fashion that will help the wiki. I want you to give me feedback on this, so I don't ruffle ANY feathers. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 12:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::... You also can't earn respect by signing up under an alt ID after being banned. That is also against the rules. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You can't show anything if you can't even type, and I was only under an IP, not I have a proper user name. So I made this page to make a proposal, and I'm NOT editing the wiki until things are good with most of the editors. I'm hoping to get some feedback and direction. Walky, would it be a such a horrible thing if I worked in the proper manner to articles that needed the work? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Yes. Yes it would. Please go away now. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:39, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I usually avoid politics round here like the plague, but you do seem to be making this personal, ItsWalky. Why not give him a chance. Worst comes to worst, he proves you right and goes far far away [[User:Eire]] 23.01 Nov 23 09 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Yeah, this. Ban someone because they've broken the rules of the site, yes obviously, and at this point I might well support the ban on those grounds just because he's done that multiple times by now.<br />
:::::::But banning someone due to a personal grudge? I'm sorry, but, we all have people in the TF fandom we don't like (and I know I'm probably on a few people's lists), but that doesn't mean anyone should be abusing their power to act like children who don't want to share the playground if the people in question ''do'' obey the rules.<br />
:::::::I've spent a lot of time trying to defend this place as being one where good editing is what's important rather than being in (or out of) the admins' private clique, and I'd rather not be made to look like a fool. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::If I got rid of people solely because I didn't get along with them, then I don't think you'd be here, Jeysie. But Mignash is wiki poison. WIKI POISON. This wiki EXISTS because I wanted a Transformers wiki outside of his poisonous influence. So, sorry. Mignash can go edit at Wikia. He doesn't have to go home, but he can't stay here. <br />
::::::::(Also also, I am not getting into a circular argument with Jeysie over Matthew friggin' Ignash, so make what condescending remarks you want about me and I'll just pretend I never saw them.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:15, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::Feeling's more than mutual, trust me.<br />
:::::::::But like I said, you weren't saying you banned Mignash because he broke the rules, which would have been fine with me, but because you have some personal vendetta with him. I '''support''' the ban for the former reason (so this isn't me trying to argue about him being unbanned), but wanted to express that I have a major problem with any admin trying to pull the latter reason. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:30, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::::I have had first-hand experience with Mignash's dense bullshit over at Wikipedia. I have absolutely no issue with Walky banning him on sheer principle. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 20:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::::Seriously, you support a full lifetime BAN without warning from a site for a couple of arguements over posts that were already settled with another admin? Especially after Ro talked to me, and I agreed to play nice. All I can say is, don't get on Walky's bad side. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 19:56, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
:::::::It seems odd that when Rosicrucian asked me to stop an edit, I did as he asked, and moved it to a talk page. The Walky, who never contacted me privately, then banned is ISP for life, then banned my user account for life and made it very clear it's because he doesn't like me from knowing me on other boards. Dude, we are both TF collectors. We are probably more alike than different. Let's keep it friendly. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 18:10, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
::I do think that's a good way to start. Doing meat and potatoes editing and filling out articles is a good thing, and your interest in Shattered Glass could be a good thing as you could collaborate with Jeysie in getting the character articles filled out with the missing fiction. Try not to stress the captions so much, as like everything they're secondary to the content itself.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:20, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::I'd appreciate Primal Rage's help. The list of Shattered Glass stubs is way too long, and there needs to be more editors working on it. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::Blackout, why don't you pick a character or two for me to start researching on, and in a week, if there isn't a problem with me posting, I'll try to update them? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:33, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::It's one of the things that caught the wiki by surprise, I think. For the longest time, the fiction output by the club was negligible, and now they're consistently putting out a fair bit of it, and it's reasonably detailed. I personally plan on getting a club membership next month to start to help out on that, but this month my money's fairly well tied up.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:51, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::If only I could do that. Unfortunately, club membership is rather hard to get where I am. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I have some duplicates of some back issues of the club magazine. If they went to a good cause, like reviewing on the wiki, I'd donate them. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 17:29, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
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:::::Yeah, it was a combo of, I've whittled the list by now down to those things that need a ''lot'' of write-up, and as much as I need the money, my temp job's kept me busy and stressed lately on top of it. I originally took it on as a pet project because nobody was really touching the SG stuff, so it seemed like something I could have fun picking away at without stepping on anyone's toes. But now that, as you say, the fiction's gotten more involved... --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:53, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
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<br />
==The Evidence==<br />
:Anyone want to see the aort of stuff Walky and I used to talk about on Wikipedia? I looked up every time I could find Walky and I even spoke to one another. <br />
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#Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:ItsWalky for a talk about a picture he changed that I had uploaded. When I asked him about it, he explained it and I did nothing, as he seemed to have a point. No arguement. <br />
# Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Transformers/Archive_2#The_Affiilations_of_Primus_and_Unicron for a talk about whether Primus and Unicron should be listed as Autobot and/or Decepticon. The end result was the being listed as Autobot/None and Decepticon/None, a comprimise. <br />
# Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Silverbolt There was a talk about whether Universe Fuzor Silverbolt was painted like the Beast Machines character in the TV show. I provided links to articles where people backed me up an dhis response "Congratulations, you just found three colorblind people."<br />
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Just who was harassing whom at Wikipedia Walky? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 20:54, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
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::Okay... so Walky edited a pic of yours. Last I checked you don't get to call "no modsies" on pics uploaded to Wikipedia. And then you get in an argument with a lot of other users, Walky posts once, and somehow that qualifies as you vs Walky the evil future dictator? (it doesn't help that they're right and you're wrong, Primus isn't an Autobot and Unicron isn't a Decepticon) I'm not really sure what kind of point you're trying to make here... --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:52, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::Point here is Walky edited my picture, and I asked him, he answered and NOTHING HAPPENED. He makes it sound like there was some horrible war on Wikipeida. Sounds more to me like his memory is invention something that didn't happen. Every one of the three times we seemed to meet nothing major seemed to occure besides talk where a result was reached. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 20:55, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::And then the Silverbolt bit... you're only focusing on the first sentence, and not where he says "No, not really"? Twisting words in an attempt to make yourself feel righteous ''again'', Matthew? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:58, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::In the end Walky got his version of the page. You seem to be missing the point. This is the actual reason Walky has a with me? Two edit conflicts from 3 years ago on Wikipedia? This is the "WIKI POISON?" [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 21:01, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I like how you think the only possible time your annoying personality and editing habits could be on display is in your interaction with one specific person. (Case in point: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mathewignash/Archive_1 Archives upon archives of your failing to comprehend how to properly label images].) And that you think your current victim complex isn't an example of said annoying personality. So you're banned from some website because apparently somebody has it out for you. Boohoo. Move the fuck on and stop trying to rationalize that you're on the moral high ground. Get over yourself. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 21:09, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::Mignash... while I don't support anyone getting banned over a personal vendetta or what's happened on another site, you have still been misbehaving on ''this'' wiki in ways that deserve banning, and this sort of thing is not helping your case. Namely, you need to be proving that if you're unbanned you ''won't'' keep continuing to engage in belligerent talk page arguments (among other things). --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::I just figured I'd post the honest truth so people don't just go on Walkys word there was some horrible thing on another board. Also, serious 2 revert fights, and then stopping when asked, deserves a LIFETIME ban from a mod who admits, he's biased?[[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 21:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::Three talkpages over the hundreds of TF-related articles on Wikipedia? I really think there's more, lots more to it than Silverbolt, Primus and Unicron and an image of Optimus Primal. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:09, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Jeysie, this is a guy who hounded me in PMs over his personal twist of something I posted in a P&R thread after he got said thread locked. If you expect him not to engage in belligerent talk page arguments... you don't know mignash at all. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:09, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::Not really the place for that here. I want to do one thing for Jeysie - Apologize. Sorry about reverting your posts. I can see that you were working hard get the SG articles done well. If I had a problem with the style, I should have started it in the talk page instead of just changing them. Even if I do post again, it will never happen again. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 21:13, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
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::::::I've seen the way he posts on the Allspark, so... yeah, trust me, I don't. Sorry, Mignash, apology accepted, but I'm deeply skeptical about you being reasonable in discussions.<br />
::::::I just think some folks got the wrong idea about what I was and wasn't bothered by regards this situation, so I wanted to clarify. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:20, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::That's why I offered to post only a limited basis in a week if I could get permission - to see if it was possible to get along. I was willing to try it, to only work on a neglected article, not mess with anything political, or that other people were editing - to see if I could post without getting in an arguement. Oh, contact me if you need those back issues of the TF club magazine anyways. Someone should have them to post about the club content. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 21:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::I never banned Mignash because of some vendetta. I banned him because I knew ahead of time that, without fail, he would act exactly as he is doing right now. I stand vindicated, thanks. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:43, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::::You ''explicitly stated'' in several places here that you banned him because you personally don't like the guy, to the point where both Rosicrucian and Eire expressed misgivings with it and Eire said he thought it sounded personal, too. You should watch how you phrase things if you don't want people jumping to the wrong conclusions. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:54, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::::Actually, I repeatedly stated that I banned him because this wiki was created to avoid his particular brand of poisonous wiki behavior. After I mentioned this, only you fought me on his dismissal. But yeah, having a conversation with Jeysie, second verse same as the first. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:56, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::::::Yep, having a conversation with you, same old bullshit. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:02, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::::::God, you know what I love about this place? It's the camaraderie (meant as nice, jaunty sarcasm, not sarcy sarcasm. Remember, jaunty). Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Walky, could I please ask, how bad are we talking here? I mean, I've frequently butted heads with people over their opinions not seeming to mesh with the established fiction. But it's usually just a different viewpoint thing. Are we dealing with just "I think Primus is an Autobot because..." or "He's an Autobot and I'm going to make him one forever and ever and you can ban me but I'll be back playing Fuck Walky" (I kinda miss him, like rain. Want it gone, miss the sound when it leaves). If its more the former, I just think you've made it a bit personal...ultimately I'm fully aware my opinion has no weight, but I feel it needs to be said [[USer:Eire]] 14.05 Nov 24 09 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::::::That's why I posted a link to the 3 year old debate. in the beginning of this section. Feel free to read it. Heck, I didn't know Walky ever remember me from 3 years ago - other than occasional jokes about Botcon Thundercracker angst in his comic strip. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 09:20, 24 November 2009 (EST)<br />
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==Picture needs request==<br />
I recently donated some pictures of Jazz's head to the tfwiki as requested on the Allspark. I have a good camera now (need some lighting) and a sizeable colleciton of toys, some VERY obscure. Is there a list of pictures that need to be taken? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:48, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
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==Sun Raid==<br />
I'm still working on [[Sun Raid]] (along with other audio books), and trying to get the MP3s uploaded to my FTP. If post a full synopsis to my talk page, can anyone critique them? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 22:24, 23 November 2009 (EST)</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Primal_Rage&diff=394797User talk:Primal Rage2009-11-24T03:24:41Z<p>Primal Rage: /* Picture needs request */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Past talk==<br />
Eire and Detour's reasoning is sound. The stub template encourages people to contribute to the article which lacks information. By providing a, let's face it, rather short and cursory passage that basically says "The good guys arrive somewhere. Stuff happens and they fight the bad guys. They win, and leave", people are less likely to take the time to complete the article, because people are less inclined to completely rewrite somebody else's work, no matter how little information it conveys. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:51, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
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No long description exists that I can find, nor even a translation into english. If you have some english translation I will provide a longer description. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 15:10, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:In that case you *PROBABLY* pad out the synopsis with more detailed descriptions of things happening so you can get at least a few paragraphs, but leave the stub tags around, and perhaps even a <nowiki>((cleanup|date|insert description here}}</nowiki> saying this synopsis was done without the benefit of translated text. Or doing this may offend our staff and regular users, heh. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:55, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
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:I never removed the stub notice in the first place, I just added a couple sentences of overview, and it got delted. Yet somehow the people deleting it failed to offer anything better. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 22:17, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:(re: claims on FFN's talk page) You ''did'' remove the stub notice, mignash. Check your edit history. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:31, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::(You're supposed to keep all talk page replies on the one page so the conversation can be followed on a single page, as opposed to multiple pages on multiple windows/tabs.) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::Thanks! I hadn't seen that left it in this time. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 12:28, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
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Please, stop your edit war on [[Rook (SG)]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:44, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:I agree. Please remove political commentaries. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::Okay, since you seem to be missing the point let me say that if you remove that one more time without getting some other users to support you, I am giving you a time-out. Right now, the majority seem to be in favor of the caption.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::It seems' It's Walky blocked me ANYWAYS, even if I didn't change it again. His reason for blocking seems to be because I'm me. What's up with that? [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:26, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You know, I searched for a Transformers wiki years ago, ultimately leading to the creation of this place, because some dude named "mignash" was such a pain on Wikipedia. Such a pain. He was so big of a pain that he was even banned from there for a time! So no, you're not allowed. Neither you nor your fun political insanities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::THANK YOU. I do not want edit-wars all over Shattered Glass. <br />
:::::(Believe it or not, now I feel embarrassed about supporting his bid to include a mention of the Seekers on the Wikipedia article on the F-15 Eagle.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:36, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::What political insanities? Because I added a comment on Obama, which isn't even that bad? Rosicrucian asked me not to revert the page any more and I did as asked. so it seems you are into banning people you don't like? --[[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:41, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::No, that's just how I knew it was you, rather than some other harmless anom merely obsessed with Shattered Glass. So you're going, exactly because you're you, because you're not allowed here. '''TFwiki.net exists to avoid Matthew Ignash'''. That's specifically why the original Wikia site was sought by me, so we could have a Transformers Wiki safe from your edit wars. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::I wasn't aware you created and owned the site. Sorry to intrude on your private property. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:49, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
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==Current members talk==<br />
While Walky could have perhaps put it more tactfully, he's certainly hit upon something that is a critical difference between the Wikipedia dynamic and the atmosphere here. At Wikipedia, there is continual dynamic tension between the policy wonks and those that are passionate about the subject matter. In fact at Wikipedia it's not uncommon to have someone who is ''entirely uninterested'' in the subject matter of an article, and just enforcing policy. Sometimes the policy wonks win, and an article gets locked down in the "correct" form. Sometimes they give up, allowing an editor to set up what amounts to a little fiefdom in a collection of articles. Here, though? Well, for one the default assumption is that we're ''all'' passionate about the subject matter, even if we take it with varying degrees of seriousness. We're here, right? Second, we're much looser policy-wise. Most of our policy documents have evolved within the past year or two, and are mainly just setting down in text things that we've agreed on in the past. It's much more "D&D house rules" than "Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?" As a result we'll almost ''never'' sanitize an article to fit one user's complaints, unless they can justify that it's getting in the way of the information the article is supposed to present.<br />
<br />
I tend to think the two approaches are night and day, and you're not the first user to run afoul of the general community atmosphere by trying to edit here the same way he does at Wikipedia. I don't know if I agree with Walky blocking you permanently, but he ''is'' the guy who helped facilitate the move off of Wikia, onto his own hosting no less, and even though we've moved hosting since then he's still been instrumental in keeping things running, including picking up the slack when the advertising doesn't cover our hosting bills. He has done some of the "heavy lifting," so to speak and for the most part he's a reasonable guy. In this case, he's ''exactly right'' that you're exhibiting some behaviors that don't really work with how this wiki has operated. Maybe he didn't explain that in a way that's satisfying to you, but I can honestly say that if you had continued your pattern of edits I would have blocked you myself, if not for Rook then for something else. If you're ever to be ''un''blocked, these are behaviors that would need to be fixed. Some people get the benefit of the doubt because of how much time and sweat they've invested in the place. You haven't earned that yet.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 11:56, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:Agreed, I have not earned it yet. That's why I made my proposal. I cann't earn the respect if I cannot post, so I am offering my "pledge" and ask for the ability to earn the respect. As I proposed, i will not edit voluntarely for ONE WEEK. I will then attempt to only make edits within my pledge, and with (hopefully) the blessing of the majority of the users here in an appropriate fashion that will help the wiki. I want you to give me feedback on this, so I don't ruffle ANY feathers. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 12:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::... You also can't earn respect by signing up under an alt ID after being banned. That is also against the rules. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You can't show anything if you can't even type, and I was only under an IP, not I have a proper user name. So I made this page to make a proposal, and I'm NOT editing the wiki until things are good with most of the editors. I'm hoping to get some feedback and direction. Walky, would it be a such a horrible thing if I worked in the proper manner to articles that needed the work? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Yes. Yes it would. Please go away now. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:39, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I usually avoid politics round here like the plague, but you do seem to be making this personal, ItsWalky. Why not give him a chance. Worst comes to worst, he proves you right and goes far far away [[User:Eire]] 23.01 Nov 23 09 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Yeah, this. Ban someone because they've broken the rules of the site, yes obviously, and at this point I might well support the ban on those grounds just because he's done that multiple times by now.<br />
:::::::But banning someone due to a personal grudge? I'm sorry, but, we all have people in the TF fandom we don't like (and I know I'm probably on a few people's lists), but that doesn't mean anyone should be abusing their power to act like children who don't want to share the playground if the people in question ''do'' obey the rules.<br />
:::::::I've spent a lot of time trying to defend this place as being one where good editing is what's important rather than being in (or out of) the admins' private clique, and I'd rather not be made to look like a fool. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::If I got rid of people solely because I didn't get along with them, then I don't think you'd be here, Jeysie. But Mignash is wiki poison. WIKI POISON. This wiki EXISTS because I wanted a Transformers wiki outside of his poisonous influence. So, sorry. Mignash can go edit at Wikia. He doesn't have to go home, but he can't stay here. <br />
::::::::(Also also, I am not getting into a circular argument with Jeysie over Matthew friggin' Ignash, so make what condescending remarks you want about me and I'll just pretend I never saw them.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:15, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::Feeling's more than mutual, trust me.<br />
:::::::::But like I said, you weren't saying you banned Mignash because he broke the rules, which would have been fine with me, but because you have some personal vendetta with him. I '''support''' the ban for the former reason (so this isn't me trying to argue about him being unbanned), but wanted to express that I have a major problem with any admin trying to pull the latter reason. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:30, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::::I have had first-hand experience with Mignash's dense bullshit over at Wikipedia. I have absolutely no issue with Walky banning him on sheer principle. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 20:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::::Seriously, you support a full lifetime BAN without warning from a site for a couple of arguements over posts that were already settled with another admin? Especially after Ro talked to me, and I agreed to play nice. All I can say is, don't get on Walky's bad side. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 19:56, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
:::::::It seems odd that when Rosicrucian asked me to stop an edit, I did as he asked, and moved it to a talk page. The Walky, who never contacted me privately, then banned is ISP for life, then banned my user account for life and made it very clear it's because he doesn't like me from knowing me on other boards. Dude, we are both TF collectors. We are probably more alike than different. Let's keep it friendly. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 18:10, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
::I do think that's a good way to start. Doing meat and potatoes editing and filling out articles is a good thing, and your interest in Shattered Glass could be a good thing as you could collaborate with Jeysie in getting the character articles filled out with the missing fiction. Try not to stress the captions so much, as like everything they're secondary to the content itself.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:20, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::I'd appreciate Primal Rage's help. The list of Shattered Glass stubs is way too long, and there needs to be more editors working on it. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::Blackout, why don't you pick a character or two for me to start researching on, and in a week, if there isn't a problem with me posting, I'll try to update them? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:33, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::It's one of the things that caught the wiki by surprise, I think. For the longest time, the fiction output by the club was negligible, and now they're consistently putting out a fair bit of it, and it's reasonably detailed. I personally plan on getting a club membership next month to start to help out on that, but this month my money's fairly well tied up.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:51, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::If only I could do that. Unfortunately, club membership is rather hard to get where I am. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I have some duplicates of some back issues of the club magazine. If they went to a good cause, like reviewing on the wiki, I'd donate them. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 17:29, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::Yeah, it was a combo of, I've whittled the list by now down to those things that need a ''lot'' of write-up, and as much as I need the money, my temp job's kept me busy and stressed lately on top of it. I originally took it on as a pet project because nobody was really touching the SG stuff, so it seemed like something I could have fun picking away at without stepping on anyone's toes. But now that, as you say, the fiction's gotten more involved... --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:53, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
<br />
==The Evidence==<br />
:Anyone want to see the aort of stuff Walky and I used to talk about on Wikipedia? I looked up every time I could find Walky and I even spoke to one another. <br />
<br />
#Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:ItsWalky for a talk about a picture he changed that I had uploaded. When I asked him about it, he explained it and I did nothing, as he seemed to have a point. No arguement. <br />
<br />
# Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Transformers/Archive_2#The_Affiilations_of_Primus_and_Unicron for a talk about whether Primus and Unicron should be listed as Autobot and/or Decepticon. The end result was the being listed as Autobot/None and Decepticon/None, a comprimise. <br />
<br />
# Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Silverbolt There was a talk about whether Universe Fuzor Silverbolt was painted like the Beast Machines character in the TV show. I provided links to articles where people backed me up an dhis response "Congratulations, you just found three colorblind people."<br />
<br />
Just who was harassing whom at Wikipedia Walky? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 20:54, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Okay... so Walky edited a pic of yours. Last I checked you don't get to call "no modsies" on pics uploaded to Wikipedia. And then you get in an argument with a lot of other users, Walky posts once, and somehow that qualifies as you vs Walky the evil future dictator? (it doesn't help that they're right and you're wrong, Primus isn't an Autobot and Unicron isn't a Decepticon) I'm not really sure what kind of point you're trying to make here... --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:52, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::Point here is Walky edited my picture, and I asked him, he answered and NOTHING HAPPENED. He makes it sound like there was some horrible war on Wikipeida. Sounds more to me like his memory is invention something that didn't happen. Every one of the three times we seemed to meet nothing major seemed to occure besides talk where a result was reached. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 20:55, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::And then the Silverbolt bit... you're only focusing on the first sentence, and not where he says "No, not really"? Twisting words in an attempt to make yourself feel righteous ''again'', Matthew? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:58, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::In the end Walky got his version of the page. You seem to be missing the point. This is the actual reason Walky has a with me? Two edit conflicts from 3 years ago on Wikipedia? This is the "WIKI POISON?" [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 21:01, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I like how you think the only possible time your annoying personality and editing habits could be on display is in your interaction with one specific person. (Case in point: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mathewignash/Archive_1 Archives upon archives of your failing to comprehend how to properly label images].) And that you think your current victim complex isn't an example of said annoying personality. So you're banned from some website because apparently somebody has it out for you. Boohoo. Move the fuck on and stop trying to rationalize that you're on the moral high ground. Get over yourself. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 21:09, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::Mignash... while I don't support anyone getting banned over a personal vendetta or what's happened on another site, you have still been misbehaving on ''this'' wiki in ways that deserve banning, and this sort of thing is not helping your case. Namely, you need to be proving that if you're unbanned you ''won't'' keep continuing to engage in belligerent talk page arguments (among other things). --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::I just figured I'd post the honest truth so people don't just go on Walkys word there was some horrible thing on another board. Also, serious 2 revert fights, and then stopping when asked, deserves a LIFETIME ban from a mod who admits, he's biased?[[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 21:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::Three talkpages over the hundreds of TF-related articles on Wikipedia? I really think there's more, lots more to it than Silverbolt, Primus and Unicron and an image of Optimus Primal. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:09, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Jeysie, this is a guy who hounded me in PMs over his personal twist of something I posted in a P&R thread after he got said thread locked. If you expect him not to engage in belligerent talk page arguments... you don't know mignash at all. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:09, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::Not really the place for that here. I want to do one thing for Jeysie - Apologize. Sorry about reverting your posts. I can see that you were working hard get the SG articles done well. If I had a problem with the style, I should have started it in the talk page instead of just changing them. Even if I do post again, it will never happen again. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 21:13, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::::I've seen the way he posts on the Allspark, so... yeah, trust me, I don't. Sorry, Mignash, apology accepted, but I'm deeply skeptical about you being reasonable in discussions.<br />
::::::I just think some folks got the wrong idea about what I was and wasn't bothered by regards this situation, so I wanted to clarify. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:20, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::That's why I offered to post only a limited basis in a week if I could get permission - to see if it was possible to get along. I was willing to try it, to only work on a neglected article, not mess with anything political, or that other people were editing - to see if I could post without getting in an arguement. Oh, contact me if you need those back issues of the TF club magazine anyways. Someone should have them to post about the club content. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 21:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::I never banned Mignash because of some vendetta. I banned him because I knew ahead of time that, without fail, he would act exactly as he is doing right now. I stand vindicated, thanks. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:43, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::::You ''explicitly stated'' in several places here that you banned him because you personally don't like the guy, to the point where both Rosicrucian and Eire expressed misgivings with it and Eire said he thought it sounded personal, too. You should watch how you phrase things if you don't want people jumping to the wrong conclusions. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:54, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::::Actually, I repeatedly stated that I banned him because this wiki was created to avoid his particular brand of poisonous wiki behavior. After I mentioned this, only you fought me on his dismissal. But yeah, having a conversation with Jeysie, second verse same as the first. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:56, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::::::Yep, having a conversation with you, same old bullshit. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:02, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Picture needs request==<br />
I recently donated some pictures of Jazz's head to the tfwiki as requested on the Allspark. I have a good camera now (need some lighting) and a sizeable colleciton of toys, some VERY obscure. Is there a list of pictures that need to be taken? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:48, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Sun Raid==<br />
I'm still working on [[Sun Raid]] (along with other audio books), and trying to get the MP3s uploaded to my FTP. If post a full synopsis to my talk page, can anyone critique them? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 22:24, 23 November 2009 (EST)</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Primal_Rage&diff=394782User talk:Primal Rage2009-11-24T02:32:54Z<p>Primal Rage: /* The Evidence */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Past talk==<br />
Eire and Detour's reasoning is sound. The stub template encourages people to contribute to the article which lacks information. By providing a, let's face it, rather short and cursory passage that basically says "The good guys arrive somewhere. Stuff happens and they fight the bad guys. They win, and leave", people are less likely to take the time to complete the article, because people are less inclined to completely rewrite somebody else's work, no matter how little information it conveys. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:51, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
No long description exists that I can find, nor even a translation into english. If you have some english translation I will provide a longer description. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 15:10, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:In that case you *PROBABLY* pad out the synopsis with more detailed descriptions of things happening so you can get at least a few paragraphs, but leave the stub tags around, and perhaps even a <nowiki>((cleanup|date|insert description here}}</nowiki> saying this synopsis was done without the benefit of translated text. Or doing this may offend our staff and regular users, heh. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:55, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I never removed the stub notice in the first place, I just added a couple sentences of overview, and it got delted. Yet somehow the people deleting it failed to offer anything better. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 22:17, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:(re: claims on FFN's talk page) You ''did'' remove the stub notice, mignash. Check your edit history. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:31, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::(You're supposed to keep all talk page replies on the one page so the conversation can be followed on a single page, as opposed to multiple pages on multiple windows/tabs.) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::Thanks! I hadn't seen that left it in this time. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 12:28, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Please, stop your edit war on [[Rook (SG)]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:44, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:I agree. Please remove political commentaries. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::Okay, since you seem to be missing the point let me say that if you remove that one more time without getting some other users to support you, I am giving you a time-out. Right now, the majority seem to be in favor of the caption.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::It seems' It's Walky blocked me ANYWAYS, even if I didn't change it again. His reason for blocking seems to be because I'm me. What's up with that? [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:26, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You know, I searched for a Transformers wiki years ago, ultimately leading to the creation of this place, because some dude named "mignash" was such a pain on Wikipedia. Such a pain. He was so big of a pain that he was even banned from there for a time! So no, you're not allowed. Neither you nor your fun political insanities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::THANK YOU. I do not want edit-wars all over Shattered Glass. <br />
:::::(Believe it or not, now I feel embarrassed about supporting his bid to include a mention of the Seekers on the Wikipedia article on the F-15 Eagle.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:36, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::What political insanities? Because I added a comment on Obama, which isn't even that bad? Rosicrucian asked me not to revert the page any more and I did as asked. so it seems you are into banning people you don't like? --[[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:41, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::No, that's just how I knew it was you, rather than some other harmless anom merely obsessed with Shattered Glass. So you're going, exactly because you're you, because you're not allowed here. '''TFwiki.net exists to avoid Matthew Ignash'''. That's specifically why the original Wikia site was sought by me, so we could have a Transformers Wiki safe from your edit wars. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::I wasn't aware you created and owned the site. Sorry to intrude on your private property. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:49, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Current members talk==<br />
While Walky could have perhaps put it more tactfully, he's certainly hit upon something that is a critical difference between the Wikipedia dynamic and the atmosphere here. At Wikipedia, there is continual dynamic tension between the policy wonks and those that are passionate about the subject matter. In fact at Wikipedia it's not uncommon to have someone who is ''entirely uninterested'' in the subject matter of an article, and just enforcing policy. Sometimes the policy wonks win, and an article gets locked down in the "correct" form. Sometimes they give up, allowing an editor to set up what amounts to a little fiefdom in a collection of articles. Here, though? Well, for one the default assumption is that we're ''all'' passionate about the subject matter, even if we take it with varying degrees of seriousness. We're here, right? Second, we're much looser policy-wise. Most of our policy documents have evolved within the past year or two, and are mainly just setting down in text things that we've agreed on in the past. It's much more "D&D house rules" than "Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?" As a result we'll almost ''never'' sanitize an article to fit one user's complaints, unless they can justify that it's getting in the way of the information the article is supposed to present.<br />
<br />
I tend to think the two approaches are night and day, and you're not the first user to run afoul of the general community atmosphere by trying to edit here the same way he does at Wikipedia. I don't know if I agree with Walky blocking you permanently, but he ''is'' the guy who helped facilitate the move off of Wikia, onto his own hosting no less, and even though we've moved hosting since then he's still been instrumental in keeping things running, including picking up the slack when the advertising doesn't cover our hosting bills. He has done some of the "heavy lifting," so to speak and for the most part he's a reasonable guy. In this case, he's ''exactly right'' that you're exhibiting some behaviors that don't really work with how this wiki has operated. Maybe he didn't explain that in a way that's satisfying to you, but I can honestly say that if you had continued your pattern of edits I would have blocked you myself, if not for Rook then for something else. If you're ever to be ''un''blocked, these are behaviors that would need to be fixed. Some people get the benefit of the doubt because of how much time and sweat they've invested in the place. You haven't earned that yet.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 11:56, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:Agreed, I have not earned it yet. That's why I made my proposal. I cann't earn the respect if I cannot post, so I am offering my "pledge" and ask for the ability to earn the respect. As I proposed, i will not edit voluntarely for ONE WEEK. I will then attempt to only make edits within my pledge, and with (hopefully) the blessing of the majority of the users here in an appropriate fashion that will help the wiki. I want you to give me feedback on this, so I don't ruffle ANY feathers. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 12:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::... You also can't earn respect by signing up under an alt ID after being banned. That is also against the rules. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You can't show anything if you can't even type, and I was only under an IP, not I have a proper user name. So I made this page to make a proposal, and I'm NOT editing the wiki until things are good with most of the editors. I'm hoping to get some feedback and direction. Walky, would it be a such a horrible thing if I worked in the proper manner to articles that needed the work? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Yes. Yes it would. Please go away now. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:39, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I usually avoid politics round here like the plague, but you do seem to be making this personal, ItsWalky. Why not give him a chance. Worst comes to worst, he proves you right and goes far far away [[User:Eire]] 23.01 Nov 23 09 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Yeah, this. Ban someone because they've broken the rules of the site, yes obviously, and at this point I might well support the ban on those grounds just because he's done that multiple times by now.<br />
:::::::But banning someone due to a personal grudge? I'm sorry, but, we all have people in the TF fandom we don't like (and I know I'm probably on a few people's lists), but that doesn't mean anyone should be abusing their power to act like children who don't want to share the playground if the people in question ''do'' obey the rules.<br />
:::::::I've spent a lot of time trying to defend this place as being one where good editing is what's important rather than being in (or out of) the admins' private clique, and I'd rather not be made to look like a fool. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::If I got rid of people solely because I didn't get along with them, then I don't think you'd be here, Jeysie. But Mignash is wiki poison. WIKI POISON. This wiki EXISTS because I wanted a Transformers wiki outside of his poisonous influence. So, sorry. Mignash can go edit at Wikia. He doesn't have to go home, but he can't stay here. <br />
::::::::(Also also, I am not getting into a circular argument with Jeysie over Matthew friggin' Ignash, so make what condescending remarks you want about me and I'll just pretend I never saw them.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:15, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::Feeling's more than mutual, trust me.<br />
:::::::::But like I said, you weren't saying you banned Mignash because he broke the rules, which would have been fine with me, but because you have some personal vendetta with him. I '''support''' the ban for the former reason (so this isn't me trying to argue about him being unbanned), but wanted to express that I have a major problem with any admin trying to pull the latter reason. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:30, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::::I have had first-hand experience with Mignash's dense bullshit over at Wikipedia. I have absolutely no issue with Walky banning him on sheer principle. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 20:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::::Seriously, you support a full lifetime BAN without warning from a site for a couple of arguements over posts that were already settled with another admin? Especially after Ro talked to me, and I agreed to play nice. All I can say is, don't get on Walky's bad side. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 19:56, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
:::::::It seems odd that when Rosicrucian asked me to stop an edit, I did as he asked, and moved it to a talk page. The Walky, who never contacted me privately, then banned is ISP for life, then banned my user account for life and made it very clear it's because he doesn't like me from knowing me on other boards. Dude, we are both TF collectors. We are probably more alike than different. Let's keep it friendly. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 18:10, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
::I do think that's a good way to start. Doing meat and potatoes editing and filling out articles is a good thing, and your interest in Shattered Glass could be a good thing as you could collaborate with Jeysie in getting the character articles filled out with the missing fiction. Try not to stress the captions so much, as like everything they're secondary to the content itself.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:20, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::I'd appreciate Primal Rage's help. The list of Shattered Glass stubs is way too long, and there needs to be more editors working on it. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::Blackout, why don't you pick a character or two for me to start researching on, and in a week, if there isn't a problem with me posting, I'll try to update them? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:33, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::It's one of the things that caught the wiki by surprise, I think. For the longest time, the fiction output by the club was negligible, and now they're consistently putting out a fair bit of it, and it's reasonably detailed. I personally plan on getting a club membership next month to start to help out on that, but this month my money's fairly well tied up.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:51, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::If only I could do that. Unfortunately, club membership is rather hard to get where I am. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I have some duplicates of some back issues of the club magazine. If they went to a good cause, like reviewing on the wiki, I'd donate them. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 17:29, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::Yeah, it was a combo of, I've whittled the list by now down to those things that need a ''lot'' of write-up, and as much as I need the money, my temp job's kept me busy and stressed lately on top of it. I originally took it on as a pet project because nobody was really touching the SG stuff, so it seemed like something I could have fun picking away at without stepping on anyone's toes. But now that, as you say, the fiction's gotten more involved... --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:53, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
<br />
==The Evidence==<br />
:Anyone want to see the aort of stuff Walky and I used to talk about on Wikipedia? I looked up every time I could find Walky and I even spoke to one another. <br />
<br />
#Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:ItsWalky for a talk about a picture he changed that I had uploaded. When I asked him about it, he explained it and I did nothing, as he seemed to have a point. No arguement. <br />
<br />
# Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Transformers/Archive_2#The_Affiilations_of_Primus_and_Unicron for a talk about whether Primus and Unicron should be listed as Autobot and/or Decepticon. The end result was the being listed as Autobot/None and Decepticon/None, a comprimise. <br />
<br />
# Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Silverbolt There was a talk about whether Universe Fuzor Silverbolt was painted like the Beast Machines character in the TV show. I provided links to articles where people backed me up an dhis response "Congratulations, you just found three colorblind people."<br />
<br />
Just who was harassing whom at Wikipedia Walky? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 20:54, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Okay... so Walky edited a pic of yours. Last I checked you don't get to call "no modsies" on pics uploaded to Wikipedia. And then you get in an argument with a lot of other users, Walky posts once, and somehow that qualifies as you vs Walky the evil future dictator? (it doesn't help that they're right and you're wrong, Primus isn't an Autobot and Unicron isn't a Decepticon) I'm not really sure what kind of point you're trying to make here... --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:52, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::Point here is Walky edited my picture, and I asked him, he answered and NOTHING HAPPENED. He makes it sound like there was some horrible war on Wikipeida. Sounds more to me like his memory is invention something that didn't happen. Every one of the three times we seemed to meet nothing major seemed to occure besides talk where a result was reached. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 20:55, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::And then the Silverbolt bit... you're only focusing on the first sentence, and not where he says "No, not really"? Twisting words in an attempt to make yourself feel righteous ''again'', Matthew? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:58, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::In the end Walky got his version of the page. You seem to be missing the point. This is the actual reason Walky has a with me? Two edit conflicts from 3 years ago on Wikipedia? This is the "WIKI POISON?" [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 21:01, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I like how you think the only possible time your annoying personality and editing habits could be on display is in your interaction with one specific person. (Case in point: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mathewignash/Archive_1 Archives upon archives of your failing to comprehend how to properly label images].) And that you think your current victim complex isn't an example of said annoying personality. So you're banned from some website because apparently somebody has it out for you. Boohoo. Move the fuck on and stop trying to rationalize that you're on the moral high ground. Get over yourself. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 21:09, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::Mignash... while I don't support anyone getting banned over a personal vendetta or what's happened on another site, you have still been misbehaving on ''this'' wiki in ways that deserve banning, and this sort of thing is not helping your case. Namely, you need to be proving that if you're unbanned you ''won't'' keep continuing to engage in belligerent talk page arguments (among other things). --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::I just figured I'd post the honest truth so people don't just go on Walkys word there was some horrible thing on another board. Also, serious 2 revert fights, and then stopping when asked, deserves a LIFETIME ban from a mod who admits, he's biased?[[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 21:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::Three talkpages over the hundreds of TF-related articles on Wikipedia? I really think there's more, lots more to it than Silverbolt, Primus and Unicron and an image of Optimus Primal. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:09, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Jeysie, this is a guy who hounded me in PMs over his personal twist of something I posted in a P&R thread after he got said thread locked. If you expect him not to engage in belligerent talk page arguments... you don't know mignash at all. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:09, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::Not really the place for that here. I want to do one thing for Jeysie - Apologize. Sorry about reverting your posts. I can see that you were working hard get the SG articles done well. If I had a problem with the style, I should have started it in the talk page instead of just changing them. Even if I do post again, it will never happen again. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 21:13, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::::I've seen the way he posts on the Allspark, so... yeah, trust me, I don't. Sorry, Mignash, apology accepted, but I'm deeply skeptical about you being reasonable in discussions.<br />
::::::I just think some folks got the wrong idea about what I was and wasn't bothered by regards this situation, so I wanted to clarify. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:20, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::That's why I offered to post only a limited basis in a week if I could get permission - to see if it was possible to get along. I was willing to try it, to only work on a neglected article, not mess with anything political, or that other people were editing - to see if I could post without getting in an arguement. Oh, contact me if you need those back issues of the TF club magazine anyways. Someone should have them to post about the club content. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 21:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Picture needs request==<br />
I recently donated some pictures of Jazz's head to the tfwiki as requested on the Allspark. I have a good camera now (need some lighting) and a sizeable colleciton of toys, some VERY obscure. Is there a list of pictures that need to be taken? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:48, 23 November 2009 (EST)</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Primal_Rage&diff=394781User talk:Primal Rage2009-11-24T02:28:54Z<p>Primal Rage: /* The Evidence */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Past talk==<br />
Eire and Detour's reasoning is sound. The stub template encourages people to contribute to the article which lacks information. By providing a, let's face it, rather short and cursory passage that basically says "The good guys arrive somewhere. Stuff happens and they fight the bad guys. They win, and leave", people are less likely to take the time to complete the article, because people are less inclined to completely rewrite somebody else's work, no matter how little information it conveys. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:51, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
No long description exists that I can find, nor even a translation into english. If you have some english translation I will provide a longer description. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 15:10, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:In that case you *PROBABLY* pad out the synopsis with more detailed descriptions of things happening so you can get at least a few paragraphs, but leave the stub tags around, and perhaps even a <nowiki>((cleanup|date|insert description here}}</nowiki> saying this synopsis was done without the benefit of translated text. Or doing this may offend our staff and regular users, heh. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:55, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I never removed the stub notice in the first place, I just added a couple sentences of overview, and it got delted. Yet somehow the people deleting it failed to offer anything better. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 22:17, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:(re: claims on FFN's talk page) You ''did'' remove the stub notice, mignash. Check your edit history. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:31, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::(You're supposed to keep all talk page replies on the one page so the conversation can be followed on a single page, as opposed to multiple pages on multiple windows/tabs.) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::Thanks! I hadn't seen that left it in this time. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 12:28, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Please, stop your edit war on [[Rook (SG)]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:44, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:I agree. Please remove political commentaries. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::Okay, since you seem to be missing the point let me say that if you remove that one more time without getting some other users to support you, I am giving you a time-out. Right now, the majority seem to be in favor of the caption.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::It seems' It's Walky blocked me ANYWAYS, even if I didn't change it again. His reason for blocking seems to be because I'm me. What's up with that? [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:26, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You know, I searched for a Transformers wiki years ago, ultimately leading to the creation of this place, because some dude named "mignash" was such a pain on Wikipedia. Such a pain. He was so big of a pain that he was even banned from there for a time! So no, you're not allowed. Neither you nor your fun political insanities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::THANK YOU. I do not want edit-wars all over Shattered Glass. <br />
:::::(Believe it or not, now I feel embarrassed about supporting his bid to include a mention of the Seekers on the Wikipedia article on the F-15 Eagle.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:36, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::What political insanities? Because I added a comment on Obama, which isn't even that bad? Rosicrucian asked me not to revert the page any more and I did as asked. so it seems you are into banning people you don't like? --[[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:41, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::No, that's just how I knew it was you, rather than some other harmless anom merely obsessed with Shattered Glass. So you're going, exactly because you're you, because you're not allowed here. '''TFwiki.net exists to avoid Matthew Ignash'''. That's specifically why the original Wikia site was sought by me, so we could have a Transformers Wiki safe from your edit wars. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::I wasn't aware you created and owned the site. Sorry to intrude on your private property. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:49, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Current members talk==<br />
While Walky could have perhaps put it more tactfully, he's certainly hit upon something that is a critical difference between the Wikipedia dynamic and the atmosphere here. At Wikipedia, there is continual dynamic tension between the policy wonks and those that are passionate about the subject matter. In fact at Wikipedia it's not uncommon to have someone who is ''entirely uninterested'' in the subject matter of an article, and just enforcing policy. Sometimes the policy wonks win, and an article gets locked down in the "correct" form. Sometimes they give up, allowing an editor to set up what amounts to a little fiefdom in a collection of articles. Here, though? Well, for one the default assumption is that we're ''all'' passionate about the subject matter, even if we take it with varying degrees of seriousness. We're here, right? Second, we're much looser policy-wise. Most of our policy documents have evolved within the past year or two, and are mainly just setting down in text things that we've agreed on in the past. It's much more "D&D house rules" than "Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?" As a result we'll almost ''never'' sanitize an article to fit one user's complaints, unless they can justify that it's getting in the way of the information the article is supposed to present.<br />
<br />
I tend to think the two approaches are night and day, and you're not the first user to run afoul of the general community atmosphere by trying to edit here the same way he does at Wikipedia. I don't know if I agree with Walky blocking you permanently, but he ''is'' the guy who helped facilitate the move off of Wikia, onto his own hosting no less, and even though we've moved hosting since then he's still been instrumental in keeping things running, including picking up the slack when the advertising doesn't cover our hosting bills. He has done some of the "heavy lifting," so to speak and for the most part he's a reasonable guy. In this case, he's ''exactly right'' that you're exhibiting some behaviors that don't really work with how this wiki has operated. Maybe he didn't explain that in a way that's satisfying to you, but I can honestly say that if you had continued your pattern of edits I would have blocked you myself, if not for Rook then for something else. If you're ever to be ''un''blocked, these are behaviors that would need to be fixed. Some people get the benefit of the doubt because of how much time and sweat they've invested in the place. You haven't earned that yet.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 11:56, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:Agreed, I have not earned it yet. That's why I made my proposal. I cann't earn the respect if I cannot post, so I am offering my "pledge" and ask for the ability to earn the respect. As I proposed, i will not edit voluntarely for ONE WEEK. I will then attempt to only make edits within my pledge, and with (hopefully) the blessing of the majority of the users here in an appropriate fashion that will help the wiki. I want you to give me feedback on this, so I don't ruffle ANY feathers. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 12:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::... You also can't earn respect by signing up under an alt ID after being banned. That is also against the rules. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You can't show anything if you can't even type, and I was only under an IP, not I have a proper user name. So I made this page to make a proposal, and I'm NOT editing the wiki until things are good with most of the editors. I'm hoping to get some feedback and direction. Walky, would it be a such a horrible thing if I worked in the proper manner to articles that needed the work? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Yes. Yes it would. Please go away now. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:39, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I usually avoid politics round here like the plague, but you do seem to be making this personal, ItsWalky. Why not give him a chance. Worst comes to worst, he proves you right and goes far far away [[User:Eire]] 23.01 Nov 23 09 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Yeah, this. Ban someone because they've broken the rules of the site, yes obviously, and at this point I might well support the ban on those grounds just because he's done that multiple times by now.<br />
:::::::But banning someone due to a personal grudge? I'm sorry, but, we all have people in the TF fandom we don't like (and I know I'm probably on a few people's lists), but that doesn't mean anyone should be abusing their power to act like children who don't want to share the playground if the people in question ''do'' obey the rules.<br />
:::::::I've spent a lot of time trying to defend this place as being one where good editing is what's important rather than being in (or out of) the admins' private clique, and I'd rather not be made to look like a fool. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::If I got rid of people solely because I didn't get along with them, then I don't think you'd be here, Jeysie. But Mignash is wiki poison. WIKI POISON. This wiki EXISTS because I wanted a Transformers wiki outside of his poisonous influence. So, sorry. Mignash can go edit at Wikia. He doesn't have to go home, but he can't stay here. <br />
::::::::(Also also, I am not getting into a circular argument with Jeysie over Matthew friggin' Ignash, so make what condescending remarks you want about me and I'll just pretend I never saw them.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:15, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::Feeling's more than mutual, trust me.<br />
:::::::::But like I said, you weren't saying you banned Mignash because he broke the rules, which would have been fine with me, but because you have some personal vendetta with him. I '''support''' the ban for the former reason (so this isn't me trying to argue about him being unbanned), but wanted to express that I have a major problem with any admin trying to pull the latter reason. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:30, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::::I have had first-hand experience with Mignash's dense bullshit over at Wikipedia. I have absolutely no issue with Walky banning him on sheer principle. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 20:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::::Seriously, you support a full lifetime BAN without warning from a site for a couple of arguements over posts that were already settled with another admin? Especially after Ro talked to me, and I agreed to play nice. All I can say is, don't get on Walky's bad side. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 19:56, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
:::::::It seems odd that when Rosicrucian asked me to stop an edit, I did as he asked, and moved it to a talk page. The Walky, who never contacted me privately, then banned is ISP for life, then banned my user account for life and made it very clear it's because he doesn't like me from knowing me on other boards. Dude, we are both TF collectors. We are probably more alike than different. Let's keep it friendly. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 18:10, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
::I do think that's a good way to start. Doing meat and potatoes editing and filling out articles is a good thing, and your interest in Shattered Glass could be a good thing as you could collaborate with Jeysie in getting the character articles filled out with the missing fiction. Try not to stress the captions so much, as like everything they're secondary to the content itself.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:20, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::I'd appreciate Primal Rage's help. The list of Shattered Glass stubs is way too long, and there needs to be more editors working on it. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::Blackout, why don't you pick a character or two for me to start researching on, and in a week, if there isn't a problem with me posting, I'll try to update them? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:33, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::It's one of the things that caught the wiki by surprise, I think. For the longest time, the fiction output by the club was negligible, and now they're consistently putting out a fair bit of it, and it's reasonably detailed. I personally plan on getting a club membership next month to start to help out on that, but this month my money's fairly well tied up.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:51, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::If only I could do that. Unfortunately, club membership is rather hard to get where I am. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I have some duplicates of some back issues of the club magazine. If they went to a good cause, like reviewing on the wiki, I'd donate them. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 17:29, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::Yeah, it was a combo of, I've whittled the list by now down to those things that need a ''lot'' of write-up, and as much as I need the money, my temp job's kept me busy and stressed lately on top of it. I originally took it on as a pet project because nobody was really touching the SG stuff, so it seemed like something I could have fun picking away at without stepping on anyone's toes. But now that, as you say, the fiction's gotten more involved... --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:53, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
<br />
==The Evidence==<br />
:Anyone want to see the aort of stuff Walky and I used to talk about on Wikipedia? I looked up every time I could find Walky and I even spoke to one another. <br />
<br />
#Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:ItsWalky for a talk about a picture he changed that I had uploaded. When I asked him about it, he explained it and I did nothing, as he seemed to have a point. No arguement. <br />
<br />
# Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Transformers/Archive_2#The_Affiilations_of_Primus_and_Unicron for a talk about whether Primus and Unicron should be listed as Autobot and/or Decepticon. The end result was the being listed as Autobot/None and Decepticon/None, a comprimise. <br />
<br />
# Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Silverbolt There was a talk about whether Universe Fuzor Silverbolt was painted like the Beast Machines character in the TV show. I provided links to articles where people backed me up an dhis response "Congratulations, you just found three colorblind people."<br />
<br />
Just who was harassing whom at Wikipedia Walky? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 20:54, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Okay... so Walky edited a pic of yours. Last I checked you don't get to call "no modsies" on pics uploaded to Wikipedia. And then you get in an argument with a lot of other users, Walky posts once, and somehow that qualifies as you vs Walky the evil future dictator? (it doesn't help that they're right and you're wrong, Primus isn't an Autobot and Unicron isn't a Decepticon) I'm not really sure what kind of point you're trying to make here... --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:52, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::Point here is Walky edited my picture, and I asked him, he answered and NOTHING HAPPENED. He makes it sound like there was some horrible war on Wikipeida. Sounds more to me like his memory is invention something that didn't happen. Every one of the three times we seemed to meet nothing major seemed to occure besides talk where a result was reached. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 20:55, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::And then the Silverbolt bit... you're only focusing on the first sentence, and not where he says "No, not really"? Twisting words in an attempt to make yourself feel righteous ''again'', Matthew? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:58, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::In the end Walky got his version of the page. You seem to be missing the point. This is the actual reason Walky has a with me? Two edit conflicts from 3 years ago on Wikipedia? This is the "WIKI POISON?" [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 21:01, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I like how you think the only possible time your annoying personality and editing habits could be on display is in your interaction with one specific person. (Case in point: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mathewignash/Archive_1 Archives upon archives of your failing to comprehend how to properly label images].) And that you think your current victim complex isn't an example of said annoying personality. So you're banned from some website because apparently somebody has it out for you. Boohoo. Move the fuck on and stop trying to rationalize that you're on the moral high ground. Get over yourself. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 21:09, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::Mignash... while I don't support anyone getting banned over a personal vendetta or what's happened on another site, you have still been misbehaving on ''this'' wiki in ways that deserve banning, and this sort of thing is not helping your case. Namely, you need to be proving that if you're unbanned you ''won't'' keep continuing to engage in belligerent talk page arguments (among other things). --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::I just figured I'd post the honest truth so people don't just go on Walkys word there was some horrible thing on another board. Also, serious 2 revert fights, and then stopping when asked, deserves a LIFETIME ban from a mod who admits, he's biased?[[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 21:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::Three talkpages over the hundreds of TF-related articles on Wikipedia? I really think there's more, lots more to it than Silverbolt, Primus and Unicron and an image of Optimus Primal. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:09, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Jeysie, this is a guy who hounded me in PMs over his personal twist of something I posted in a P&R thread after he got said thread locked. If you expect him not to engage in belligerent talk page arguments... you don't know mignash at all. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:09, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::Not really the place for that here. I want to do one thing for Jeysie - Apologize. Sorry about reverting your posts. I can see that you were working hard get the SG articles done well. If I had a problem with the style, I should have started it in the talk page instead of just changing them. Even if I do post again, it will never happen again. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 21:13, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::::I've seen the way he posts on the Allspark, so... yeah, trust me, I don't. Sorry, Mignash, apology accepted, but I'm deeply skeptical about you being reasonable in discussions.<br />
::::::I just think some folks got the wrong idea about what I was and wasn't bothered by regards this situation, so I wanted to clarify. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:20, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::That's why I offered to post only a limited basis in a week if I could get permission - to see if it was possible to get along. I was willing to try it. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 21:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Picture needs request==<br />
I recently donated some pictures of Jazz's head to the tfwiki as requested on the Allspark. I have a good camera now (need some lighting) and a sizeable colleciton of toys, some VERY obscure. Is there a list of pictures that need to be taken? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:48, 23 November 2009 (EST)</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Primal_Rage&diff=394777User talk:Primal Rage2009-11-24T02:17:02Z<p>Primal Rage: /* The Evidence */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Past talk==<br />
Eire and Detour's reasoning is sound. The stub template encourages people to contribute to the article which lacks information. By providing a, let's face it, rather short and cursory passage that basically says "The good guys arrive somewhere. Stuff happens and they fight the bad guys. They win, and leave", people are less likely to take the time to complete the article, because people are less inclined to completely rewrite somebody else's work, no matter how little information it conveys. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:51, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
No long description exists that I can find, nor even a translation into english. If you have some english translation I will provide a longer description. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 15:10, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:In that case you *PROBABLY* pad out the synopsis with more detailed descriptions of things happening so you can get at least a few paragraphs, but leave the stub tags around, and perhaps even a <nowiki>((cleanup|date|insert description here}}</nowiki> saying this synopsis was done without the benefit of translated text. Or doing this may offend our staff and regular users, heh. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:55, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I never removed the stub notice in the first place, I just added a couple sentences of overview, and it got delted. Yet somehow the people deleting it failed to offer anything better. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 22:17, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:(re: claims on FFN's talk page) You ''did'' remove the stub notice, mignash. Check your edit history. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:31, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::(You're supposed to keep all talk page replies on the one page so the conversation can be followed on a single page, as opposed to multiple pages on multiple windows/tabs.) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::Thanks! I hadn't seen that left it in this time. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 12:28, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Please, stop your edit war on [[Rook (SG)]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:44, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:I agree. Please remove political commentaries. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::Okay, since you seem to be missing the point let me say that if you remove that one more time without getting some other users to support you, I am giving you a time-out. Right now, the majority seem to be in favor of the caption.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::It seems' It's Walky blocked me ANYWAYS, even if I didn't change it again. His reason for blocking seems to be because I'm me. What's up with that? [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:26, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You know, I searched for a Transformers wiki years ago, ultimately leading to the creation of this place, because some dude named "mignash" was such a pain on Wikipedia. Such a pain. He was so big of a pain that he was even banned from there for a time! So no, you're not allowed. Neither you nor your fun political insanities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::THANK YOU. I do not want edit-wars all over Shattered Glass. <br />
:::::(Believe it or not, now I feel embarrassed about supporting his bid to include a mention of the Seekers on the Wikipedia article on the F-15 Eagle.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:36, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::What political insanities? Because I added a comment on Obama, which isn't even that bad? Rosicrucian asked me not to revert the page any more and I did as asked. so it seems you are into banning people you don't like? --[[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:41, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::No, that's just how I knew it was you, rather than some other harmless anom merely obsessed with Shattered Glass. So you're going, exactly because you're you, because you're not allowed here. '''TFwiki.net exists to avoid Matthew Ignash'''. That's specifically why the original Wikia site was sought by me, so we could have a Transformers Wiki safe from your edit wars. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::I wasn't aware you created and owned the site. Sorry to intrude on your private property. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:49, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Current members talk==<br />
While Walky could have perhaps put it more tactfully, he's certainly hit upon something that is a critical difference between the Wikipedia dynamic and the atmosphere here. At Wikipedia, there is continual dynamic tension between the policy wonks and those that are passionate about the subject matter. In fact at Wikipedia it's not uncommon to have someone who is ''entirely uninterested'' in the subject matter of an article, and just enforcing policy. Sometimes the policy wonks win, and an article gets locked down in the "correct" form. Sometimes they give up, allowing an editor to set up what amounts to a little fiefdom in a collection of articles. Here, though? Well, for one the default assumption is that we're ''all'' passionate about the subject matter, even if we take it with varying degrees of seriousness. We're here, right? Second, we're much looser policy-wise. Most of our policy documents have evolved within the past year or two, and are mainly just setting down in text things that we've agreed on in the past. It's much more "D&D house rules" than "Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?" As a result we'll almost ''never'' sanitize an article to fit one user's complaints, unless they can justify that it's getting in the way of the information the article is supposed to present.<br />
<br />
I tend to think the two approaches are night and day, and you're not the first user to run afoul of the general community atmosphere by trying to edit here the same way he does at Wikipedia. I don't know if I agree with Walky blocking you permanently, but he ''is'' the guy who helped facilitate the move off of Wikia, onto his own hosting no less, and even though we've moved hosting since then he's still been instrumental in keeping things running, including picking up the slack when the advertising doesn't cover our hosting bills. He has done some of the "heavy lifting," so to speak and for the most part he's a reasonable guy. In this case, he's ''exactly right'' that you're exhibiting some behaviors that don't really work with how this wiki has operated. Maybe he didn't explain that in a way that's satisfying to you, but I can honestly say that if you had continued your pattern of edits I would have blocked you myself, if not for Rook then for something else. If you're ever to be ''un''blocked, these are behaviors that would need to be fixed. Some people get the benefit of the doubt because of how much time and sweat they've invested in the place. You haven't earned that yet.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 11:56, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:Agreed, I have not earned it yet. That's why I made my proposal. I cann't earn the respect if I cannot post, so I am offering my "pledge" and ask for the ability to earn the respect. As I proposed, i will not edit voluntarely for ONE WEEK. I will then attempt to only make edits within my pledge, and with (hopefully) the blessing of the majority of the users here in an appropriate fashion that will help the wiki. I want you to give me feedback on this, so I don't ruffle ANY feathers. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 12:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::... You also can't earn respect by signing up under an alt ID after being banned. That is also against the rules. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You can't show anything if you can't even type, and I was only under an IP, not I have a proper user name. So I made this page to make a proposal, and I'm NOT editing the wiki until things are good with most of the editors. I'm hoping to get some feedback and direction. Walky, would it be a such a horrible thing if I worked in the proper manner to articles that needed the work? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Yes. Yes it would. Please go away now. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:39, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I usually avoid politics round here like the plague, but you do seem to be making this personal, ItsWalky. Why not give him a chance. Worst comes to worst, he proves you right and goes far far away [[User:Eire]] 23.01 Nov 23 09 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Yeah, this. Ban someone because they've broken the rules of the site, yes obviously, and at this point I might well support the ban on those grounds just because he's done that multiple times by now.<br />
:::::::But banning someone due to a personal grudge? I'm sorry, but, we all have people in the TF fandom we don't like (and I know I'm probably on a few people's lists), but that doesn't mean anyone should be abusing their power to act like children who don't want to share the playground if the people in question ''do'' obey the rules.<br />
:::::::I've spent a lot of time trying to defend this place as being one where good editing is what's important rather than being in (or out of) the admins' private clique, and I'd rather not be made to look like a fool. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::If I got rid of people solely because I didn't get along with them, then I don't think you'd be here, Jeysie. But Mignash is wiki poison. WIKI POISON. This wiki EXISTS because I wanted a Transformers wiki outside of his poisonous influence. So, sorry. Mignash can go edit at Wikia. He doesn't have to go home, but he can't stay here. <br />
::::::::(Also also, I am not getting into a circular argument with Jeysie over Matthew friggin' Ignash, so make what condescending remarks you want about me and I'll just pretend I never saw them.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:15, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::Feeling's more than mutual, trust me.<br />
:::::::::But like I said, you weren't saying you banned Mignash because he broke the rules, which would have been fine with me, but because you have some personal vendetta with him. I '''support''' the ban for the former reason (so this isn't me trying to argue about him being unbanned), but wanted to express that I have a major problem with any admin trying to pull the latter reason. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:30, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::::I have had first-hand experience with Mignash's dense bullshit over at Wikipedia. I have absolutely no issue with Walky banning him on sheer principle. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 20:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::::Seriously, you support a full lifetime BAN without warning from a site for a couple of arguements over posts that were already settled with another admin? Especially after Ro talked to me, and I agreed to play nice. All I can say is, don't get on Walky's bad side. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 19:56, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
:::::::It seems odd that when Rosicrucian asked me to stop an edit, I did as he asked, and moved it to a talk page. The Walky, who never contacted me privately, then banned is ISP for life, then banned my user account for life and made it very clear it's because he doesn't like me from knowing me on other boards. Dude, we are both TF collectors. We are probably more alike than different. Let's keep it friendly. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 18:10, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
::I do think that's a good way to start. Doing meat and potatoes editing and filling out articles is a good thing, and your interest in Shattered Glass could be a good thing as you could collaborate with Jeysie in getting the character articles filled out with the missing fiction. Try not to stress the captions so much, as like everything they're secondary to the content itself.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:20, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::I'd appreciate Primal Rage's help. The list of Shattered Glass stubs is way too long, and there needs to be more editors working on it. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::Blackout, why don't you pick a character or two for me to start researching on, and in a week, if there isn't a problem with me posting, I'll try to update them? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:33, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::It's one of the things that caught the wiki by surprise, I think. For the longest time, the fiction output by the club was negligible, and now they're consistently putting out a fair bit of it, and it's reasonably detailed. I personally plan on getting a club membership next month to start to help out on that, but this month my money's fairly well tied up.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:51, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::If only I could do that. Unfortunately, club membership is rather hard to get where I am. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I have some duplicates of some back issues of the club magazine. If they went to a good cause, like reviewing on the wiki, I'd donate them. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 17:29, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::Yeah, it was a combo of, I've whittled the list by now down to those things that need a ''lot'' of write-up, and as much as I need the money, my temp job's kept me busy and stressed lately on top of it. I originally took it on as a pet project because nobody was really touching the SG stuff, so it seemed like something I could have fun picking away at without stepping on anyone's toes. But now that, as you say, the fiction's gotten more involved... --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:53, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
<br />
==The Evidence==<br />
:Anyone want to see the aort of stuff Walky and I used to talk about on Wikipedia? I looked up every time I could find Walky and I even spoke to one another. <br />
<br />
#Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:ItsWalky for a talk about a picture he changed that I had uploaded. When I asked him about it, he explained it and I did nothing, as he seemed to have a point. No arguement. <br />
<br />
# Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Transformers/Archive_2#The_Affiilations_of_Primus_and_Unicron for a talk about whether Primus and Unicron should be listed as Autobot and/or Decepticon. The end result was the being listed as Autobot/None and Decepticon/None, a comprimise. <br />
<br />
# Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Silverbolt There was a talk about whether Universe Fuzor Silverbolt was painted like the Beast Machines character in the TV show. I provided links to articles where people backed me up an dhis response "Congratulations, you just found three colorblind people."<br />
<br />
Just who was harassing whom at Wikipedia Walky? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 20:54, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Okay... so Walky edited a pic of yours. Last I checked you don't get to call "no modsies" on pics uploaded to Wikipedia. And then you get in an argument with a lot of other users, Walky posts once, and somehow that qualifies as you vs Walky the evil future dictator? (it doesn't help that they're right and you're wrong, Primus isn't an Autobot and Unicron isn't a Decepticon) I'm not really sure what kind of point you're trying to make here... --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:52, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::Point here is Walky edited my picture, and I asked him, he answered and NOTHING HAPPENED. He makes it sound like there was some horrible war on Wikipeida. Sounds more to me like his memory is invention something that didn't happen. Every one of the three times we seemed to meet nothing major seemed to occure besides talk where a result was reached. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 20:55, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::And then the Silverbolt bit... you're only focusing on the first sentence, and not where he says "No, not really"? Twisting words in an attempt to make yourself feel righteous ''again'', Matthew? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:58, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::In the end Walky got his version of the page. You seem to be missing the point. This is the actual reason Walky has a with me? Two edit conflicts from 3 years ago on Wikipedia? This is the "WIKI POISON?" [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 21:01, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I like how you think the only possible time your annoying personality and editing habits could be on display is in your interaction with one specific person. (Case in point: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mathewignash/Archive_1 Archives upon archives of your failing to comprehend how to properly label images].) And that you think your current victim complex isn't an example of said annoying personality. So you're banned from some website because apparently somebody has it out for you. Boohoo. Move the fuck on and stop trying to rationalize that you're on the moral high ground. Get over yourself. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 21:09, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::Mignash... while I don't support anyone getting banned over a personal vendetta or what's happened on another site, you have still been misbehaving on ''this'' wiki in ways that deserve banning, and this sort of thing is not helping your case. Namely, you need to be proving that if you're unbanned you ''won't'' keep continuing to engage in belligerent talk page arguments (among other things). --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::I just figured I'd post the honest truth so people don't just go on Walkys word there was some horrible thing on another board. Also, serious 2 revert fights, and then stopping when asked, deserves a LIFETIME ban from a mod who admits, he's biased?[[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 21:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::Three talkpages over the hundreds of TF-related articles on Wikipedia? I really think there's more, lots more to it than Silverbolt, Primus and Unicron and an image of Optimus Primal. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:09, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Jeysie, this is a guy who hounded me in PMs over his personal twist of something I posted in a P&R thread after he got said thread locked. If you expect him not to engage in belligerent talk page arguments... you don't know mignash at all. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:09, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::Not really the place for that here. I want to do one thing for Jeysie - Apologize. Sorry about reverting your posts. I can see that you were working hard get the SG articles done well. If I had a problem with the style, I should have started it in the talk page instead of just changing them. Even if I do post again, it will never happen again. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 21:13, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Picture needs request==<br />
I recently donated some pictures of Jazz's head to the tfwiki as requested on the Allspark. I have a good camera now (need some lighting) and a sizeable colleciton of toys, some VERY obscure. Is there a list of pictures that need to be taken? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:48, 23 November 2009 (EST)</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Primal_Rage&diff=394773User talk:Primal Rage2009-11-24T02:13:03Z<p>Primal Rage: /* The Evidence */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Past talk==<br />
Eire and Detour's reasoning is sound. The stub template encourages people to contribute to the article which lacks information. By providing a, let's face it, rather short and cursory passage that basically says "The good guys arrive somewhere. Stuff happens and they fight the bad guys. They win, and leave", people are less likely to take the time to complete the article, because people are less inclined to completely rewrite somebody else's work, no matter how little information it conveys. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:51, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
No long description exists that I can find, nor even a translation into english. If you have some english translation I will provide a longer description. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 15:10, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:In that case you *PROBABLY* pad out the synopsis with more detailed descriptions of things happening so you can get at least a few paragraphs, but leave the stub tags around, and perhaps even a <nowiki>((cleanup|date|insert description here}}</nowiki> saying this synopsis was done without the benefit of translated text. Or doing this may offend our staff and regular users, heh. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:55, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I never removed the stub notice in the first place, I just added a couple sentences of overview, and it got delted. Yet somehow the people deleting it failed to offer anything better. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 22:17, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:(re: claims on FFN's talk page) You ''did'' remove the stub notice, mignash. Check your edit history. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:31, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::(You're supposed to keep all talk page replies on the one page so the conversation can be followed on a single page, as opposed to multiple pages on multiple windows/tabs.) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::Thanks! I hadn't seen that left it in this time. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 12:28, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Please, stop your edit war on [[Rook (SG)]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:44, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:I agree. Please remove political commentaries. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::Okay, since you seem to be missing the point let me say that if you remove that one more time without getting some other users to support you, I am giving you a time-out. Right now, the majority seem to be in favor of the caption.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::It seems' It's Walky blocked me ANYWAYS, even if I didn't change it again. His reason for blocking seems to be because I'm me. What's up with that? [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:26, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You know, I searched for a Transformers wiki years ago, ultimately leading to the creation of this place, because some dude named "mignash" was such a pain on Wikipedia. Such a pain. He was so big of a pain that he was even banned from there for a time! So no, you're not allowed. Neither you nor your fun political insanities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::THANK YOU. I do not want edit-wars all over Shattered Glass. <br />
:::::(Believe it or not, now I feel embarrassed about supporting his bid to include a mention of the Seekers on the Wikipedia article on the F-15 Eagle.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:36, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::What political insanities? Because I added a comment on Obama, which isn't even that bad? Rosicrucian asked me not to revert the page any more and I did as asked. so it seems you are into banning people you don't like? --[[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:41, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::No, that's just how I knew it was you, rather than some other harmless anom merely obsessed with Shattered Glass. So you're going, exactly because you're you, because you're not allowed here. '''TFwiki.net exists to avoid Matthew Ignash'''. That's specifically why the original Wikia site was sought by me, so we could have a Transformers Wiki safe from your edit wars. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::I wasn't aware you created and owned the site. Sorry to intrude on your private property. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:49, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Current members talk==<br />
While Walky could have perhaps put it more tactfully, he's certainly hit upon something that is a critical difference between the Wikipedia dynamic and the atmosphere here. At Wikipedia, there is continual dynamic tension between the policy wonks and those that are passionate about the subject matter. In fact at Wikipedia it's not uncommon to have someone who is ''entirely uninterested'' in the subject matter of an article, and just enforcing policy. Sometimes the policy wonks win, and an article gets locked down in the "correct" form. Sometimes they give up, allowing an editor to set up what amounts to a little fiefdom in a collection of articles. Here, though? Well, for one the default assumption is that we're ''all'' passionate about the subject matter, even if we take it with varying degrees of seriousness. We're here, right? Second, we're much looser policy-wise. Most of our policy documents have evolved within the past year or two, and are mainly just setting down in text things that we've agreed on in the past. It's much more "D&D house rules" than "Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?" As a result we'll almost ''never'' sanitize an article to fit one user's complaints, unless they can justify that it's getting in the way of the information the article is supposed to present.<br />
<br />
I tend to think the two approaches are night and day, and you're not the first user to run afoul of the general community atmosphere by trying to edit here the same way he does at Wikipedia. I don't know if I agree with Walky blocking you permanently, but he ''is'' the guy who helped facilitate the move off of Wikia, onto his own hosting no less, and even though we've moved hosting since then he's still been instrumental in keeping things running, including picking up the slack when the advertising doesn't cover our hosting bills. He has done some of the "heavy lifting," so to speak and for the most part he's a reasonable guy. In this case, he's ''exactly right'' that you're exhibiting some behaviors that don't really work with how this wiki has operated. Maybe he didn't explain that in a way that's satisfying to you, but I can honestly say that if you had continued your pattern of edits I would have blocked you myself, if not for Rook then for something else. If you're ever to be ''un''blocked, these are behaviors that would need to be fixed. Some people get the benefit of the doubt because of how much time and sweat they've invested in the place. You haven't earned that yet.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 11:56, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:Agreed, I have not earned it yet. That's why I made my proposal. I cann't earn the respect if I cannot post, so I am offering my "pledge" and ask for the ability to earn the respect. As I proposed, i will not edit voluntarely for ONE WEEK. I will then attempt to only make edits within my pledge, and with (hopefully) the blessing of the majority of the users here in an appropriate fashion that will help the wiki. I want you to give me feedback on this, so I don't ruffle ANY feathers. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 12:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::... You also can't earn respect by signing up under an alt ID after being banned. That is also against the rules. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You can't show anything if you can't even type, and I was only under an IP, not I have a proper user name. So I made this page to make a proposal, and I'm NOT editing the wiki until things are good with most of the editors. I'm hoping to get some feedback and direction. Walky, would it be a such a horrible thing if I worked in the proper manner to articles that needed the work? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Yes. Yes it would. Please go away now. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:39, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I usually avoid politics round here like the plague, but you do seem to be making this personal, ItsWalky. Why not give him a chance. Worst comes to worst, he proves you right and goes far far away [[User:Eire]] 23.01 Nov 23 09 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Yeah, this. Ban someone because they've broken the rules of the site, yes obviously, and at this point I might well support the ban on those grounds just because he's done that multiple times by now.<br />
:::::::But banning someone due to a personal grudge? I'm sorry, but, we all have people in the TF fandom we don't like (and I know I'm probably on a few people's lists), but that doesn't mean anyone should be abusing their power to act like children who don't want to share the playground if the people in question ''do'' obey the rules.<br />
:::::::I've spent a lot of time trying to defend this place as being one where good editing is what's important rather than being in (or out of) the admins' private clique, and I'd rather not be made to look like a fool. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::If I got rid of people solely because I didn't get along with them, then I don't think you'd be here, Jeysie. But Mignash is wiki poison. WIKI POISON. This wiki EXISTS because I wanted a Transformers wiki outside of his poisonous influence. So, sorry. Mignash can go edit at Wikia. He doesn't have to go home, but he can't stay here. <br />
::::::::(Also also, I am not getting into a circular argument with Jeysie over Matthew friggin' Ignash, so make what condescending remarks you want about me and I'll just pretend I never saw them.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:15, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::Feeling's more than mutual, trust me.<br />
:::::::::But like I said, you weren't saying you banned Mignash because he broke the rules, which would have been fine with me, but because you have some personal vendetta with him. I '''support''' the ban for the former reason (so this isn't me trying to argue about him being unbanned), but wanted to express that I have a major problem with any admin trying to pull the latter reason. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:30, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::::I have had first-hand experience with Mignash's dense bullshit over at Wikipedia. I have absolutely no issue with Walky banning him on sheer principle. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 20:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::::Seriously, you support a full lifetime BAN without warning from a site for a couple of arguements over posts that were already settled with another admin? Especially after Ro talked to me, and I agreed to play nice. All I can say is, don't get on Walky's bad side. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 19:56, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
:::::::It seems odd that when Rosicrucian asked me to stop an edit, I did as he asked, and moved it to a talk page. The Walky, who never contacted me privately, then banned is ISP for life, then banned my user account for life and made it very clear it's because he doesn't like me from knowing me on other boards. Dude, we are both TF collectors. We are probably more alike than different. Let's keep it friendly. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 18:10, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
::I do think that's a good way to start. Doing meat and potatoes editing and filling out articles is a good thing, and your interest in Shattered Glass could be a good thing as you could collaborate with Jeysie in getting the character articles filled out with the missing fiction. Try not to stress the captions so much, as like everything they're secondary to the content itself.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:20, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::I'd appreciate Primal Rage's help. The list of Shattered Glass stubs is way too long, and there needs to be more editors working on it. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::Blackout, why don't you pick a character or two for me to start researching on, and in a week, if there isn't a problem with me posting, I'll try to update them? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:33, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::It's one of the things that caught the wiki by surprise, I think. For the longest time, the fiction output by the club was negligible, and now they're consistently putting out a fair bit of it, and it's reasonably detailed. I personally plan on getting a club membership next month to start to help out on that, but this month my money's fairly well tied up.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:51, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::If only I could do that. Unfortunately, club membership is rather hard to get where I am. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I have some duplicates of some back issues of the club magazine. If they went to a good cause, like reviewing on the wiki, I'd donate them. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 17:29, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::Yeah, it was a combo of, I've whittled the list by now down to those things that need a ''lot'' of write-up, and as much as I need the money, my temp job's kept me busy and stressed lately on top of it. I originally took it on as a pet project because nobody was really touching the SG stuff, so it seemed like something I could have fun picking away at without stepping on anyone's toes. But now that, as you say, the fiction's gotten more involved... --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:53, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
<br />
==The Evidence==<br />
:Anyone want to see the aort of stuff Walky and I used to talk about on Wikipedia? I looked up every time I could find Walky and I even spoke to one another. <br />
<br />
#Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:ItsWalky for a talk about a picture he changed that I had uploaded. When I asked him about it, he explained it and I did nothing, as he seemed to have a point. No arguement. <br />
<br />
# Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Transformers/Archive_2#The_Affiilations_of_Primus_and_Unicron for a talk about whether Primus and Unicron should be listed as Autobot and/or Decepticon. The end result was the being listed as Autobot/None and Decepticon/None, a comprimise. <br />
<br />
# Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Silverbolt There was a talk about whether Universe Fuzor Silverbolt was painted like the Beast Machines character in the TV show. I provided links to articles where people backed me up an dhis response "Congratulations, you just found three colorblind people."<br />
<br />
Just who was harassing whom at Wikipedia Walky? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 20:54, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Okay... so Walky edited a pic of yours. Last I checked you don't get to call "no modsies" on pics uploaded to Wikipedia. And then you get in an argument with a lot of other users, Walky posts once, and somehow that qualifies as you vs Walky the evil future dictator? (it doesn't help that they're right and you're wrong, Primus isn't an Autobot and Unicron isn't a Decepticon) I'm not really sure what kind of point you're trying to make here... --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:52, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::Point here is Walky edited my picture, and I asked him, he answered and NOTHING HAPPENED. He makes it sound like there was some horrible war on Wikipeida. Sounds more to me like his memory is invention something that didn't happen. Every one of the three times we seemed to meet nothing major seemed to occure besides talk where a result was reached. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 20:55, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::And then the Silverbolt bit... you're only focusing on the first sentence, and not where he says "No, not really"? Twisting words in an attempt to make yourself feel righteous ''again'', Matthew? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:58, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::In the end Walky got his version of the page. You seem to be missing the point. This is the actual reason Walky has a with me? Two edit conflicts from 3 years ago on Wikipedia? This is the "WIKI POISON?" [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 21:01, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I like how you think the only possible time your annoying personality and editing habits could be on display is in your interaction with one specific person. (Case in point: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mathewignash/Archive_1 Archives upon archives of your failing to comprehend how to properly label images].) And that you think your current victim complex isn't an example of said annoying personality. So you're banned from some website because apparently somebody has it out for you. Boohoo. Move the fuck on and stop trying to rationalize that you're on the moral high ground. Get over yourself. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 21:09, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::Mignash... while I don't support anyone getting banned over a personal vendetta or what's happened on another site, you have still been misbehaving on ''this'' wiki in ways that deserve banning, and this sort of thing is not helping your case. Namely, you need to be proving that if you're unbanned you ''won't'' keep continuing to engage in belligerent talk page arguments (among other things). --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::I just figured I'd post the honest truth so people don't just go on Walkys word there was some horrible thing on another board. Also, serious 2 revert fights, and then stopping when asked, deserves a LIFETIME ban from a mod who admits, he's biased?[[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 21:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::Three talkpages over the hundreds of TF-related articles on Wikipedia? I really think there's more, lots more to it than Silverbolt, Primus and Unicron and an image of Optimus Primal. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:09, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Jeysie, this is a guy who hounded me in PMs over his personal twist of something I posted in a P&R thread after he got said thread locked. If you expect him not to engage in belligerent talk page arguments... you don't know mignash at all. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:09, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::Not really the place foe that here. I want to do one thing for Jeysie - Apologize. Sorry about reverting your posts. I can see that you were working hard get the SG articles done well. If I had a problem with the style, I should have started it in the talk page instead of just changing them. Even if I do post again, it will never happen again. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 21:13, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Picture needs request==<br />
I recently donated some pictures of Jazz's head to the tfwiki as requested on the Allspark. I have a good camera now (need some lighting) and a sizeable colleciton of toys, some VERY obscure. Is there a list of pictures that need to be taken? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:48, 23 November 2009 (EST)</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Primal_Rage&diff=394769User talk:Primal Rage2009-11-24T02:07:01Z<p>Primal Rage: /* The Evidence */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Past talk==<br />
Eire and Detour's reasoning is sound. The stub template encourages people to contribute to the article which lacks information. By providing a, let's face it, rather short and cursory passage that basically says "The good guys arrive somewhere. Stuff happens and they fight the bad guys. They win, and leave", people are less likely to take the time to complete the article, because people are less inclined to completely rewrite somebody else's work, no matter how little information it conveys. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:51, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
No long description exists that I can find, nor even a translation into english. If you have some english translation I will provide a longer description. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 15:10, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:In that case you *PROBABLY* pad out the synopsis with more detailed descriptions of things happening so you can get at least a few paragraphs, but leave the stub tags around, and perhaps even a <nowiki>((cleanup|date|insert description here}}</nowiki> saying this synopsis was done without the benefit of translated text. Or doing this may offend our staff and regular users, heh. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:55, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I never removed the stub notice in the first place, I just added a couple sentences of overview, and it got delted. Yet somehow the people deleting it failed to offer anything better. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 22:17, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:(re: claims on FFN's talk page) You ''did'' remove the stub notice, mignash. Check your edit history. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:31, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::(You're supposed to keep all talk page replies on the one page so the conversation can be followed on a single page, as opposed to multiple pages on multiple windows/tabs.) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::Thanks! I hadn't seen that left it in this time. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 12:28, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Please, stop your edit war on [[Rook (SG)]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:44, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:I agree. Please remove political commentaries. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::Okay, since you seem to be missing the point let me say that if you remove that one more time without getting some other users to support you, I am giving you a time-out. Right now, the majority seem to be in favor of the caption.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::It seems' It's Walky blocked me ANYWAYS, even if I didn't change it again. His reason for blocking seems to be because I'm me. What's up with that? [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:26, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You know, I searched for a Transformers wiki years ago, ultimately leading to the creation of this place, because some dude named "mignash" was such a pain on Wikipedia. Such a pain. He was so big of a pain that he was even banned from there for a time! So no, you're not allowed. Neither you nor your fun political insanities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::THANK YOU. I do not want edit-wars all over Shattered Glass. <br />
:::::(Believe it or not, now I feel embarrassed about supporting his bid to include a mention of the Seekers on the Wikipedia article on the F-15 Eagle.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:36, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::What political insanities? Because I added a comment on Obama, which isn't even that bad? Rosicrucian asked me not to revert the page any more and I did as asked. so it seems you are into banning people you don't like? --[[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:41, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::No, that's just how I knew it was you, rather than some other harmless anom merely obsessed with Shattered Glass. So you're going, exactly because you're you, because you're not allowed here. '''TFwiki.net exists to avoid Matthew Ignash'''. That's specifically why the original Wikia site was sought by me, so we could have a Transformers Wiki safe from your edit wars. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::I wasn't aware you created and owned the site. Sorry to intrude on your private property. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:49, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Current members talk==<br />
While Walky could have perhaps put it more tactfully, he's certainly hit upon something that is a critical difference between the Wikipedia dynamic and the atmosphere here. At Wikipedia, there is continual dynamic tension between the policy wonks and those that are passionate about the subject matter. In fact at Wikipedia it's not uncommon to have someone who is ''entirely uninterested'' in the subject matter of an article, and just enforcing policy. Sometimes the policy wonks win, and an article gets locked down in the "correct" form. Sometimes they give up, allowing an editor to set up what amounts to a little fiefdom in a collection of articles. Here, though? Well, for one the default assumption is that we're ''all'' passionate about the subject matter, even if we take it with varying degrees of seriousness. We're here, right? Second, we're much looser policy-wise. Most of our policy documents have evolved within the past year or two, and are mainly just setting down in text things that we've agreed on in the past. It's much more "D&D house rules" than "Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?" As a result we'll almost ''never'' sanitize an article to fit one user's complaints, unless they can justify that it's getting in the way of the information the article is supposed to present.<br />
<br />
I tend to think the two approaches are night and day, and you're not the first user to run afoul of the general community atmosphere by trying to edit here the same way he does at Wikipedia. I don't know if I agree with Walky blocking you permanently, but he ''is'' the guy who helped facilitate the move off of Wikia, onto his own hosting no less, and even though we've moved hosting since then he's still been instrumental in keeping things running, including picking up the slack when the advertising doesn't cover our hosting bills. He has done some of the "heavy lifting," so to speak and for the most part he's a reasonable guy. In this case, he's ''exactly right'' that you're exhibiting some behaviors that don't really work with how this wiki has operated. Maybe he didn't explain that in a way that's satisfying to you, but I can honestly say that if you had continued your pattern of edits I would have blocked you myself, if not for Rook then for something else. If you're ever to be ''un''blocked, these are behaviors that would need to be fixed. Some people get the benefit of the doubt because of how much time and sweat they've invested in the place. You haven't earned that yet.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 11:56, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:Agreed, I have not earned it yet. That's why I made my proposal. I cann't earn the respect if I cannot post, so I am offering my "pledge" and ask for the ability to earn the respect. As I proposed, i will not edit voluntarely for ONE WEEK. I will then attempt to only make edits within my pledge, and with (hopefully) the blessing of the majority of the users here in an appropriate fashion that will help the wiki. I want you to give me feedback on this, so I don't ruffle ANY feathers. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 12:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::... You also can't earn respect by signing up under an alt ID after being banned. That is also against the rules. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You can't show anything if you can't even type, and I was only under an IP, not I have a proper user name. So I made this page to make a proposal, and I'm NOT editing the wiki until things are good with most of the editors. I'm hoping to get some feedback and direction. Walky, would it be a such a horrible thing if I worked in the proper manner to articles that needed the work? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Yes. Yes it would. Please go away now. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:39, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I usually avoid politics round here like the plague, but you do seem to be making this personal, ItsWalky. Why not give him a chance. Worst comes to worst, he proves you right and goes far far away [[User:Eire]] 23.01 Nov 23 09 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Yeah, this. Ban someone because they've broken the rules of the site, yes obviously, and at this point I might well support the ban on those grounds just because he's done that multiple times by now.<br />
:::::::But banning someone due to a personal grudge? I'm sorry, but, we all have people in the TF fandom we don't like (and I know I'm probably on a few people's lists), but that doesn't mean anyone should be abusing their power to act like children who don't want to share the playground if the people in question ''do'' obey the rules.<br />
:::::::I've spent a lot of time trying to defend this place as being one where good editing is what's important rather than being in (or out of) the admins' private clique, and I'd rather not be made to look like a fool. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::If I got rid of people solely because I didn't get along with them, then I don't think you'd be here, Jeysie. But Mignash is wiki poison. WIKI POISON. This wiki EXISTS because I wanted a Transformers wiki outside of his poisonous influence. So, sorry. Mignash can go edit at Wikia. He doesn't have to go home, but he can't stay here. <br />
::::::::(Also also, I am not getting into a circular argument with Jeysie over Matthew friggin' Ignash, so make what condescending remarks you want about me and I'll just pretend I never saw them.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:15, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::Feeling's more than mutual, trust me.<br />
:::::::::But like I said, you weren't saying you banned Mignash because he broke the rules, which would have been fine with me, but because you have some personal vendetta with him. I '''support''' the ban for the former reason (so this isn't me trying to argue about him being unbanned), but wanted to express that I have a major problem with any admin trying to pull the latter reason. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:30, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::::I have had first-hand experience with Mignash's dense bullshit over at Wikipedia. I have absolutely no issue with Walky banning him on sheer principle. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 20:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::::Seriously, you support a full lifetime BAN without warning from a site for a couple of arguements over posts that were already settled with another admin? Especially after Ro talked to me, and I agreed to play nice. All I can say is, don't get on Walky's bad side. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 19:56, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
:::::::It seems odd that when Rosicrucian asked me to stop an edit, I did as he asked, and moved it to a talk page. The Walky, who never contacted me privately, then banned is ISP for life, then banned my user account for life and made it very clear it's because he doesn't like me from knowing me on other boards. Dude, we are both TF collectors. We are probably more alike than different. Let's keep it friendly. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 18:10, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
::I do think that's a good way to start. Doing meat and potatoes editing and filling out articles is a good thing, and your interest in Shattered Glass could be a good thing as you could collaborate with Jeysie in getting the character articles filled out with the missing fiction. Try not to stress the captions so much, as like everything they're secondary to the content itself.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:20, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::I'd appreciate Primal Rage's help. The list of Shattered Glass stubs is way too long, and there needs to be more editors working on it. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::Blackout, why don't you pick a character or two for me to start researching on, and in a week, if there isn't a problem with me posting, I'll try to update them? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:33, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::It's one of the things that caught the wiki by surprise, I think. For the longest time, the fiction output by the club was negligible, and now they're consistently putting out a fair bit of it, and it's reasonably detailed. I personally plan on getting a club membership next month to start to help out on that, but this month my money's fairly well tied up.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:51, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::If only I could do that. Unfortunately, club membership is rather hard to get where I am. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I have some duplicates of some back issues of the club magazine. If they went to a good cause, like reviewing on the wiki, I'd donate them. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 17:29, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::Yeah, it was a combo of, I've whittled the list by now down to those things that need a ''lot'' of write-up, and as much as I need the money, my temp job's kept me busy and stressed lately on top of it. I originally took it on as a pet project because nobody was really touching the SG stuff, so it seemed like something I could have fun picking away at without stepping on anyone's toes. But now that, as you say, the fiction's gotten more involved... --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:53, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
<br />
==The Evidence==<br />
:Anyone want to see the aort of stuff Walky and I used to talk about on Wikipedia? I looked up every time I could find Walky and I even spoke to one another. <br />
<br />
#Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:ItsWalky for a talk about a picture he changed that I had uploaded. When I asked him about it, he explained it and I did nothing, as he seemed to have a point. No arguement. <br />
<br />
# Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Transformers/Archive_2#The_Affiilations_of_Primus_and_Unicron for a talk about whether Primus and Unicron should be listed as Autobot and/or Decepticon. The end result was the being listed as Autobot/None and Decepticon/None, a comprimise. <br />
<br />
# Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Silverbolt There was a talk about whether Universe Fuzor Silverbolt was painted like the Beast Machines character in the TV show. I provided links to articles where people backed me up an dhis response "Congratulations, you just found three colorblind people."<br />
<br />
Just who was harassing whom at Wikipedia Walky? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 20:54, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Okay... so Walky edited a pic of yours. Last I checked you don't get to call "no modsies" on pics uploaded to Wikipedia. And then you get in an argument with a lot of other users, Walky posts once, and somehow that qualifies as you vs Walky the evil future dictator? (it doesn't help that they're right and you're wrong, Primus isn't an Autobot and Unicron isn't a Decepticon) I'm not really sure what kind of point you're trying to make here... --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:52, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::Point here is Walky edited my picture, and I asked him, he answered and NOTHING HAPPENED. He makes it sound like there was some horrible war on Wikipeida. Sounds more to me like his memory is invention something that didn't happen. Every one of the three times we seemed to meet nothing major seemed to occure besides talk where a result was reached. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 20:55, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::And then the Silverbolt bit... you're only focusing on the first sentence, and not where he says "No, not really"? Twisting words in an attempt to make yourself feel righteous ''again'', Matthew? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:58, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::In the end Walky got his version of the page. You seem to be missing the point. This is the actual reason Walky has a with me? Two edit conflicts from 3 years ago on Wikipedia? This is the "WIKI POISON?" [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 21:01, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::::Mignash... while I don't support anyone getting banned over a personal vendetta or what's happened on another site, you have still been misbehaving on ''this'' wiki in ways that deserve banning, and this sort of thing is not helping your case. Namely, you need to be proving that if you're unbanned you ''won't'' keep continuing to engage in belligerent talk page arguments (among other things). --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::I just figured I'd post the honest truth so people don't just go on Walkys word there was some horrible thing on another board. Also, serious 2 revert fights, and then stopping when asked, deserves a LIFETIME ban from a mod who admits, he's biased?[[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 21:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Picture needs request==<br />
I recently donated some pictures of Jazz's head to the tfwiki as requested on the Allspark. I have a good camera now (need some lighting) and a sizeable colleciton of toys, some VERY obscure. Is there a list of pictures that need to be taken? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:48, 23 November 2009 (EST)</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Primal_Rage&diff=394767User talk:Primal Rage2009-11-24T02:01:10Z<p>Primal Rage: /* The Evidence */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Past talk==<br />
Eire and Detour's reasoning is sound. The stub template encourages people to contribute to the article which lacks information. By providing a, let's face it, rather short and cursory passage that basically says "The good guys arrive somewhere. Stuff happens and they fight the bad guys. They win, and leave", people are less likely to take the time to complete the article, because people are less inclined to completely rewrite somebody else's work, no matter how little information it conveys. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:51, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
No long description exists that I can find, nor even a translation into english. If you have some english translation I will provide a longer description. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 15:10, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:In that case you *PROBABLY* pad out the synopsis with more detailed descriptions of things happening so you can get at least a few paragraphs, but leave the stub tags around, and perhaps even a <nowiki>((cleanup|date|insert description here}}</nowiki> saying this synopsis was done without the benefit of translated text. Or doing this may offend our staff and regular users, heh. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:55, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I never removed the stub notice in the first place, I just added a couple sentences of overview, and it got delted. Yet somehow the people deleting it failed to offer anything better. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 22:17, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:(re: claims on FFN's talk page) You ''did'' remove the stub notice, mignash. Check your edit history. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:31, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::(You're supposed to keep all talk page replies on the one page so the conversation can be followed on a single page, as opposed to multiple pages on multiple windows/tabs.) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::Thanks! I hadn't seen that left it in this time. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 12:28, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Please, stop your edit war on [[Rook (SG)]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:44, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:I agree. Please remove political commentaries. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::Okay, since you seem to be missing the point let me say that if you remove that one more time without getting some other users to support you, I am giving you a time-out. Right now, the majority seem to be in favor of the caption.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::It seems' It's Walky blocked me ANYWAYS, even if I didn't change it again. His reason for blocking seems to be because I'm me. What's up with that? [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:26, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You know, I searched for a Transformers wiki years ago, ultimately leading to the creation of this place, because some dude named "mignash" was such a pain on Wikipedia. Such a pain. He was so big of a pain that he was even banned from there for a time! So no, you're not allowed. Neither you nor your fun political insanities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::THANK YOU. I do not want edit-wars all over Shattered Glass. <br />
:::::(Believe it or not, now I feel embarrassed about supporting his bid to include a mention of the Seekers on the Wikipedia article on the F-15 Eagle.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:36, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::What political insanities? Because I added a comment on Obama, which isn't even that bad? Rosicrucian asked me not to revert the page any more and I did as asked. so it seems you are into banning people you don't like? --[[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:41, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::No, that's just how I knew it was you, rather than some other harmless anom merely obsessed with Shattered Glass. So you're going, exactly because you're you, because you're not allowed here. '''TFwiki.net exists to avoid Matthew Ignash'''. That's specifically why the original Wikia site was sought by me, so we could have a Transformers Wiki safe from your edit wars. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::I wasn't aware you created and owned the site. Sorry to intrude on your private property. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:49, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Current members talk==<br />
While Walky could have perhaps put it more tactfully, he's certainly hit upon something that is a critical difference between the Wikipedia dynamic and the atmosphere here. At Wikipedia, there is continual dynamic tension between the policy wonks and those that are passionate about the subject matter. In fact at Wikipedia it's not uncommon to have someone who is ''entirely uninterested'' in the subject matter of an article, and just enforcing policy. Sometimes the policy wonks win, and an article gets locked down in the "correct" form. Sometimes they give up, allowing an editor to set up what amounts to a little fiefdom in a collection of articles. Here, though? Well, for one the default assumption is that we're ''all'' passionate about the subject matter, even if we take it with varying degrees of seriousness. We're here, right? Second, we're much looser policy-wise. Most of our policy documents have evolved within the past year or two, and are mainly just setting down in text things that we've agreed on in the past. It's much more "D&D house rules" than "Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?" As a result we'll almost ''never'' sanitize an article to fit one user's complaints, unless they can justify that it's getting in the way of the information the article is supposed to present.<br />
<br />
I tend to think the two approaches are night and day, and you're not the first user to run afoul of the general community atmosphere by trying to edit here the same way he does at Wikipedia. I don't know if I agree with Walky blocking you permanently, but he ''is'' the guy who helped facilitate the move off of Wikia, onto his own hosting no less, and even though we've moved hosting since then he's still been instrumental in keeping things running, including picking up the slack when the advertising doesn't cover our hosting bills. He has done some of the "heavy lifting," so to speak and for the most part he's a reasonable guy. In this case, he's ''exactly right'' that you're exhibiting some behaviors that don't really work with how this wiki has operated. Maybe he didn't explain that in a way that's satisfying to you, but I can honestly say that if you had continued your pattern of edits I would have blocked you myself, if not for Rook then for something else. If you're ever to be ''un''blocked, these are behaviors that would need to be fixed. Some people get the benefit of the doubt because of how much time and sweat they've invested in the place. You haven't earned that yet.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 11:56, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:Agreed, I have not earned it yet. That's why I made my proposal. I cann't earn the respect if I cannot post, so I am offering my "pledge" and ask for the ability to earn the respect. As I proposed, i will not edit voluntarely for ONE WEEK. I will then attempt to only make edits within my pledge, and with (hopefully) the blessing of the majority of the users here in an appropriate fashion that will help the wiki. I want you to give me feedback on this, so I don't ruffle ANY feathers. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 12:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::... You also can't earn respect by signing up under an alt ID after being banned. That is also against the rules. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You can't show anything if you can't even type, and I was only under an IP, not I have a proper user name. So I made this page to make a proposal, and I'm NOT editing the wiki until things are good with most of the editors. I'm hoping to get some feedback and direction. Walky, would it be a such a horrible thing if I worked in the proper manner to articles that needed the work? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Yes. Yes it would. Please go away now. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:39, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I usually avoid politics round here like the plague, but you do seem to be making this personal, ItsWalky. Why not give him a chance. Worst comes to worst, he proves you right and goes far far away [[User:Eire]] 23.01 Nov 23 09 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Yeah, this. Ban someone because they've broken the rules of the site, yes obviously, and at this point I might well support the ban on those grounds just because he's done that multiple times by now.<br />
:::::::But banning someone due to a personal grudge? I'm sorry, but, we all have people in the TF fandom we don't like (and I know I'm probably on a few people's lists), but that doesn't mean anyone should be abusing their power to act like children who don't want to share the playground if the people in question ''do'' obey the rules.<br />
:::::::I've spent a lot of time trying to defend this place as being one where good editing is what's important rather than being in (or out of) the admins' private clique, and I'd rather not be made to look like a fool. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::If I got rid of people solely because I didn't get along with them, then I don't think you'd be here, Jeysie. But Mignash is wiki poison. WIKI POISON. This wiki EXISTS because I wanted a Transformers wiki outside of his poisonous influence. So, sorry. Mignash can go edit at Wikia. He doesn't have to go home, but he can't stay here. <br />
::::::::(Also also, I am not getting into a circular argument with Jeysie over Matthew friggin' Ignash, so make what condescending remarks you want about me and I'll just pretend I never saw them.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:15, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::Feeling's more than mutual, trust me.<br />
:::::::::But like I said, you weren't saying you banned Mignash because he broke the rules, which would have been fine with me, but because you have some personal vendetta with him. I '''support''' the ban for the former reason (so this isn't me trying to argue about him being unbanned), but wanted to express that I have a major problem with any admin trying to pull the latter reason. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:30, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::::I have had first-hand experience with Mignash's dense bullshit over at Wikipedia. I have absolutely no issue with Walky banning him on sheer principle. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 20:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::::Seriously, you support a full lifetime BAN without warning from a site for a couple of arguements over posts that were already settled with another admin? Especially after Ro talked to me, and I agreed to play nice. All I can say is, don't get on Walky's bad side. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 19:56, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
:::::::It seems odd that when Rosicrucian asked me to stop an edit, I did as he asked, and moved it to a talk page. The Walky, who never contacted me privately, then banned is ISP for life, then banned my user account for life and made it very clear it's because he doesn't like me from knowing me on other boards. Dude, we are both TF collectors. We are probably more alike than different. Let's keep it friendly. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 18:10, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
::I do think that's a good way to start. Doing meat and potatoes editing and filling out articles is a good thing, and your interest in Shattered Glass could be a good thing as you could collaborate with Jeysie in getting the character articles filled out with the missing fiction. Try not to stress the captions so much, as like everything they're secondary to the content itself.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:20, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::I'd appreciate Primal Rage's help. The list of Shattered Glass stubs is way too long, and there needs to be more editors working on it. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::Blackout, why don't you pick a character or two for me to start researching on, and in a week, if there isn't a problem with me posting, I'll try to update them? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:33, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::It's one of the things that caught the wiki by surprise, I think. For the longest time, the fiction output by the club was negligible, and now they're consistently putting out a fair bit of it, and it's reasonably detailed. I personally plan on getting a club membership next month to start to help out on that, but this month my money's fairly well tied up.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:51, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::If only I could do that. Unfortunately, club membership is rather hard to get where I am. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I have some duplicates of some back issues of the club magazine. If they went to a good cause, like reviewing on the wiki, I'd donate them. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 17:29, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::Yeah, it was a combo of, I've whittled the list by now down to those things that need a ''lot'' of write-up, and as much as I need the money, my temp job's kept me busy and stressed lately on top of it. I originally took it on as a pet project because nobody was really touching the SG stuff, so it seemed like something I could have fun picking away at without stepping on anyone's toes. But now that, as you say, the fiction's gotten more involved... --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:53, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
<br />
==The Evidence==<br />
:Anyone want to see the aort of stuff Walky and I used to talk about on Wikipedia? I looked up every time I could find Walky and I even spoke to one another. <br />
<br />
#Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:ItsWalky for a talk about a picture he changed that I had uploaded. When I asked him about it, he explained it and I did nothing, as he seemed to have a point. No arguement. <br />
<br />
# Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Transformers/Archive_2#The_Affiilations_of_Primus_and_Unicron for a talk about whether Primus and Unicron should be listed as Autobot and/or Decepticon. The end result was the being listed as Autobot/None and Decepticon/None, a comprimise. <br />
<br />
# Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Silverbolt There was a talk about whether Universe Fuzor Silverbolt was painted like the Beast Machines character in the TV show. I provided links to articles where people backed me up an dhis response "Congratulations, you just found three colorblind people."<br />
<br />
Just who was harassing whom at Wikipedia Walky? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 20:54, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Okay... so Walky edited a pic of yours. Last I checked you don't get to call "no modsies" on pics uploaded to Wikipedia. And then you get in an argument with a lot of other users, Walky posts once, and somehow that qualifies as you vs Walky the evil future dictator? (it doesn't help that they're right and you're wrong, Primus isn't an Autobot and Unicron isn't a Decepticon) I'm not really sure what kind of point you're trying to make here... --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:52, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::Point here is Walky edited my picture, and I asked him, he answered and NOTHING HAPPENED. He makes it sound like there was some horrible war on Wikipeida. Sounds more to me like his memory is invention something that didn't happen. Every one of the three times we seemed to meet nothing major seemed to occure besides talk where a result was reached. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 20:55, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::And then the Silverbolt bit... you're only focusing on the first sentence, and not where he says "No, not really"? Twisting words in an attempt to make yourself feel righteous ''again'', Matthew? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:58, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::In the end Walky got his version of the page. You seem to be missing the point. This is the actual reason Walky has a with me? Two edit conflicts from 3 years ago on Wikipedia? This is the "WIKI POISON?" [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 21:01, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Picture needs request==<br />
I recently donated some pictures of Jazz's head to the tfwiki as requested on the Allspark. I have a good camera now (need some lighting) and a sizeable colleciton of toys, some VERY obscure. Is there a list of pictures that need to be taken? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:48, 23 November 2009 (EST)</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Primal_Rage&diff=394765User talk:Primal Rage2009-11-24T01:57:10Z<p>Primal Rage: /* The Evidence */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Past talk==<br />
Eire and Detour's reasoning is sound. The stub template encourages people to contribute to the article which lacks information. By providing a, let's face it, rather short and cursory passage that basically says "The good guys arrive somewhere. Stuff happens and they fight the bad guys. They win, and leave", people are less likely to take the time to complete the article, because people are less inclined to completely rewrite somebody else's work, no matter how little information it conveys. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:51, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
No long description exists that I can find, nor even a translation into english. If you have some english translation I will provide a longer description. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 15:10, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:In that case you *PROBABLY* pad out the synopsis with more detailed descriptions of things happening so you can get at least a few paragraphs, but leave the stub tags around, and perhaps even a <nowiki>((cleanup|date|insert description here}}</nowiki> saying this synopsis was done without the benefit of translated text. Or doing this may offend our staff and regular users, heh. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:55, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I never removed the stub notice in the first place, I just added a couple sentences of overview, and it got delted. Yet somehow the people deleting it failed to offer anything better. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 22:17, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:(re: claims on FFN's talk page) You ''did'' remove the stub notice, mignash. Check your edit history. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:31, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::(You're supposed to keep all talk page replies on the one page so the conversation can be followed on a single page, as opposed to multiple pages on multiple windows/tabs.) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::Thanks! I hadn't seen that left it in this time. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 12:28, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Please, stop your edit war on [[Rook (SG)]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:44, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:I agree. Please remove political commentaries. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::Okay, since you seem to be missing the point let me say that if you remove that one more time without getting some other users to support you, I am giving you a time-out. Right now, the majority seem to be in favor of the caption.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::It seems' It's Walky blocked me ANYWAYS, even if I didn't change it again. His reason for blocking seems to be because I'm me. What's up with that? [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:26, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You know, I searched for a Transformers wiki years ago, ultimately leading to the creation of this place, because some dude named "mignash" was such a pain on Wikipedia. Such a pain. He was so big of a pain that he was even banned from there for a time! So no, you're not allowed. Neither you nor your fun political insanities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::THANK YOU. I do not want edit-wars all over Shattered Glass. <br />
:::::(Believe it or not, now I feel embarrassed about supporting his bid to include a mention of the Seekers on the Wikipedia article on the F-15 Eagle.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:36, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::What political insanities? Because I added a comment on Obama, which isn't even that bad? Rosicrucian asked me not to revert the page any more and I did as asked. so it seems you are into banning people you don't like? --[[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:41, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::No, that's just how I knew it was you, rather than some other harmless anom merely obsessed with Shattered Glass. So you're going, exactly because you're you, because you're not allowed here. '''TFwiki.net exists to avoid Matthew Ignash'''. That's specifically why the original Wikia site was sought by me, so we could have a Transformers Wiki safe from your edit wars. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::I wasn't aware you created and owned the site. Sorry to intrude on your private property. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:49, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Current members talk==<br />
While Walky could have perhaps put it more tactfully, he's certainly hit upon something that is a critical difference between the Wikipedia dynamic and the atmosphere here. At Wikipedia, there is continual dynamic tension between the policy wonks and those that are passionate about the subject matter. In fact at Wikipedia it's not uncommon to have someone who is ''entirely uninterested'' in the subject matter of an article, and just enforcing policy. Sometimes the policy wonks win, and an article gets locked down in the "correct" form. Sometimes they give up, allowing an editor to set up what amounts to a little fiefdom in a collection of articles. Here, though? Well, for one the default assumption is that we're ''all'' passionate about the subject matter, even if we take it with varying degrees of seriousness. We're here, right? Second, we're much looser policy-wise. Most of our policy documents have evolved within the past year or two, and are mainly just setting down in text things that we've agreed on in the past. It's much more "D&D house rules" than "Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?" As a result we'll almost ''never'' sanitize an article to fit one user's complaints, unless they can justify that it's getting in the way of the information the article is supposed to present.<br />
<br />
I tend to think the two approaches are night and day, and you're not the first user to run afoul of the general community atmosphere by trying to edit here the same way he does at Wikipedia. I don't know if I agree with Walky blocking you permanently, but he ''is'' the guy who helped facilitate the move off of Wikia, onto his own hosting no less, and even though we've moved hosting since then he's still been instrumental in keeping things running, including picking up the slack when the advertising doesn't cover our hosting bills. He has done some of the "heavy lifting," so to speak and for the most part he's a reasonable guy. In this case, he's ''exactly right'' that you're exhibiting some behaviors that don't really work with how this wiki has operated. Maybe he didn't explain that in a way that's satisfying to you, but I can honestly say that if you had continued your pattern of edits I would have blocked you myself, if not for Rook then for something else. If you're ever to be ''un''blocked, these are behaviors that would need to be fixed. Some people get the benefit of the doubt because of how much time and sweat they've invested in the place. You haven't earned that yet.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 11:56, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:Agreed, I have not earned it yet. That's why I made my proposal. I cann't earn the respect if I cannot post, so I am offering my "pledge" and ask for the ability to earn the respect. As I proposed, i will not edit voluntarely for ONE WEEK. I will then attempt to only make edits within my pledge, and with (hopefully) the blessing of the majority of the users here in an appropriate fashion that will help the wiki. I want you to give me feedback on this, so I don't ruffle ANY feathers. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 12:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::... You also can't earn respect by signing up under an alt ID after being banned. That is also against the rules. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You can't show anything if you can't even type, and I was only under an IP, not I have a proper user name. So I made this page to make a proposal, and I'm NOT editing the wiki until things are good with most of the editors. I'm hoping to get some feedback and direction. Walky, would it be a such a horrible thing if I worked in the proper manner to articles that needed the work? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Yes. Yes it would. Please go away now. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:39, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I usually avoid politics round here like the plague, but you do seem to be making this personal, ItsWalky. Why not give him a chance. Worst comes to worst, he proves you right and goes far far away [[User:Eire]] 23.01 Nov 23 09 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Yeah, this. Ban someone because they've broken the rules of the site, yes obviously, and at this point I might well support the ban on those grounds just because he's done that multiple times by now.<br />
:::::::But banning someone due to a personal grudge? I'm sorry, but, we all have people in the TF fandom we don't like (and I know I'm probably on a few people's lists), but that doesn't mean anyone should be abusing their power to act like children who don't want to share the playground if the people in question ''do'' obey the rules.<br />
:::::::I've spent a lot of time trying to defend this place as being one where good editing is what's important rather than being in (or out of) the admins' private clique, and I'd rather not be made to look like a fool. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::If I got rid of people solely because I didn't get along with them, then I don't think you'd be here, Jeysie. But Mignash is wiki poison. WIKI POISON. This wiki EXISTS because I wanted a Transformers wiki outside of his poisonous influence. So, sorry. Mignash can go edit at Wikia. He doesn't have to go home, but he can't stay here. <br />
::::::::(Also also, I am not getting into a circular argument with Jeysie over Matthew friggin' Ignash, so make what condescending remarks you want about me and I'll just pretend I never saw them.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:15, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::Feeling's more than mutual, trust me.<br />
:::::::::But like I said, you weren't saying you banned Mignash because he broke the rules, which would have been fine with me, but because you have some personal vendetta with him. I '''support''' the ban for the former reason (so this isn't me trying to argue about him being unbanned), but wanted to express that I have a major problem with any admin trying to pull the latter reason. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:30, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::::I have had first-hand experience with Mignash's dense bullshit over at Wikipedia. I have absolutely no issue with Walky banning him on sheer principle. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 20:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::::Seriously, you support a full lifetime BAN without warning from a site for a couple of arguements over posts that were already settled with another admin? Especially after Ro talked to me, and I agreed to play nice. All I can say is, don't get on Walky's bad side. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 19:56, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
:::::::It seems odd that when Rosicrucian asked me to stop an edit, I did as he asked, and moved it to a talk page. The Walky, who never contacted me privately, then banned is ISP for life, then banned my user account for life and made it very clear it's because he doesn't like me from knowing me on other boards. Dude, we are both TF collectors. We are probably more alike than different. Let's keep it friendly. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 18:10, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
::I do think that's a good way to start. Doing meat and potatoes editing and filling out articles is a good thing, and your interest in Shattered Glass could be a good thing as you could collaborate with Jeysie in getting the character articles filled out with the missing fiction. Try not to stress the captions so much, as like everything they're secondary to the content itself.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:20, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::I'd appreciate Primal Rage's help. The list of Shattered Glass stubs is way too long, and there needs to be more editors working on it. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::Blackout, why don't you pick a character or two for me to start researching on, and in a week, if there isn't a problem with me posting, I'll try to update them? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:33, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::It's one of the things that caught the wiki by surprise, I think. For the longest time, the fiction output by the club was negligible, and now they're consistently putting out a fair bit of it, and it's reasonably detailed. I personally plan on getting a club membership next month to start to help out on that, but this month my money's fairly well tied up.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:51, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::If only I could do that. Unfortunately, club membership is rather hard to get where I am. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I have some duplicates of some back issues of the club magazine. If they went to a good cause, like reviewing on the wiki, I'd donate them. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 17:29, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::Yeah, it was a combo of, I've whittled the list by now down to those things that need a ''lot'' of write-up, and as much as I need the money, my temp job's kept me busy and stressed lately on top of it. I originally took it on as a pet project because nobody was really touching the SG stuff, so it seemed like something I could have fun picking away at without stepping on anyone's toes. But now that, as you say, the fiction's gotten more involved... --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:53, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
<br />
==The Evidence==<br />
:Anyone want to see the aort of stuff Walky and I used to talk about on Wikipedia? I looked up every time I could find Walky and I even spoke to one another. <br />
<br />
#Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:ItsWalky for a talk about a picture he changed that I had uploaded. When I asked him about it, he explained it and I did nothing, as he seemed to have a point. No arguement. <br />
<br />
# Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Transformers/Archive_2#The_Affiilations_of_Primus_and_Unicron for a talk about whether Primus and Unicron should be listed as Autobot and/or Decepticon. The end result was the being listed as Autobot/None and Decepticon/None, a comprimise. <br />
<br />
# Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Silverbolt There was a talk about whether Universe Fuzor Silverbolt was painted like the Beast Machines character in the TV show. I provided links to articles where people backed me up an dhis response "Congratulations, you just found three colorblind people."<br />
<br />
Just who was harassing whom at Wikipedia Walky? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 20:54, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Okay... so Walky edited a pic of yours. Last I checked you don't get to call "no modsies" on pics uploaded to Wikipedia. And then you get in an argument with a lot of other users, Walky posts once, and somehow that qualifies as you vs Walky the evil future dictator? (it doesn't help that they're right and you're wrong, Primus isn't an Autobot and Unicron isn't a Decepticon) I'm not really sure what kind of point you're trying to make here... --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:52, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::Point here is Walky edited my picture, and I asked him, he answered and NOTHING HAPPENED. He makes it sound like there was some horrible war on Wikipeida. Sounds more to me like his memory is invention something that didn't happen. Every one of the three times we seemed to meet nothing major seemed to occure besides talk where a result was reached. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 20:55, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Picture needs request==<br />
I recently donated some pictures of Jazz's head to the tfwiki as requested on the Allspark. I have a good camera now (need some lighting) and a sizeable colleciton of toys, some VERY obscure. Is there a list of pictures that need to be taken? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:48, 23 November 2009 (EST)</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Primal_Rage&diff=394764User talk:Primal Rage2009-11-24T01:55:56Z<p>Primal Rage: /* The Evidence */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Past talk==<br />
Eire and Detour's reasoning is sound. The stub template encourages people to contribute to the article which lacks information. By providing a, let's face it, rather short and cursory passage that basically says "The good guys arrive somewhere. Stuff happens and they fight the bad guys. They win, and leave", people are less likely to take the time to complete the article, because people are less inclined to completely rewrite somebody else's work, no matter how little information it conveys. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:51, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
No long description exists that I can find, nor even a translation into english. If you have some english translation I will provide a longer description. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 15:10, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:In that case you *PROBABLY* pad out the synopsis with more detailed descriptions of things happening so you can get at least a few paragraphs, but leave the stub tags around, and perhaps even a <nowiki>((cleanup|date|insert description here}}</nowiki> saying this synopsis was done without the benefit of translated text. Or doing this may offend our staff and regular users, heh. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:55, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I never removed the stub notice in the first place, I just added a couple sentences of overview, and it got delted. Yet somehow the people deleting it failed to offer anything better. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 22:17, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:(re: claims on FFN's talk page) You ''did'' remove the stub notice, mignash. Check your edit history. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:31, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::(You're supposed to keep all talk page replies on the one page so the conversation can be followed on a single page, as opposed to multiple pages on multiple windows/tabs.) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::Thanks! I hadn't seen that left it in this time. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 12:28, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Please, stop your edit war on [[Rook (SG)]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:44, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:I agree. Please remove political commentaries. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::Okay, since you seem to be missing the point let me say that if you remove that one more time without getting some other users to support you, I am giving you a time-out. Right now, the majority seem to be in favor of the caption.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::It seems' It's Walky blocked me ANYWAYS, even if I didn't change it again. His reason for blocking seems to be because I'm me. What's up with that? [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:26, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You know, I searched for a Transformers wiki years ago, ultimately leading to the creation of this place, because some dude named "mignash" was such a pain on Wikipedia. Such a pain. He was so big of a pain that he was even banned from there for a time! So no, you're not allowed. Neither you nor your fun political insanities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::THANK YOU. I do not want edit-wars all over Shattered Glass. <br />
:::::(Believe it or not, now I feel embarrassed about supporting his bid to include a mention of the Seekers on the Wikipedia article on the F-15 Eagle.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:36, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::What political insanities? Because I added a comment on Obama, which isn't even that bad? Rosicrucian asked me not to revert the page any more and I did as asked. so it seems you are into banning people you don't like? --[[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:41, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::No, that's just how I knew it was you, rather than some other harmless anom merely obsessed with Shattered Glass. So you're going, exactly because you're you, because you're not allowed here. '''TFwiki.net exists to avoid Matthew Ignash'''. That's specifically why the original Wikia site was sought by me, so we could have a Transformers Wiki safe from your edit wars. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::I wasn't aware you created and owned the site. Sorry to intrude on your private property. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:49, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Current members talk==<br />
While Walky could have perhaps put it more tactfully, he's certainly hit upon something that is a critical difference between the Wikipedia dynamic and the atmosphere here. At Wikipedia, there is continual dynamic tension between the policy wonks and those that are passionate about the subject matter. In fact at Wikipedia it's not uncommon to have someone who is ''entirely uninterested'' in the subject matter of an article, and just enforcing policy. Sometimes the policy wonks win, and an article gets locked down in the "correct" form. Sometimes they give up, allowing an editor to set up what amounts to a little fiefdom in a collection of articles. Here, though? Well, for one the default assumption is that we're ''all'' passionate about the subject matter, even if we take it with varying degrees of seriousness. We're here, right? Second, we're much looser policy-wise. Most of our policy documents have evolved within the past year or two, and are mainly just setting down in text things that we've agreed on in the past. It's much more "D&D house rules" than "Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?" As a result we'll almost ''never'' sanitize an article to fit one user's complaints, unless they can justify that it's getting in the way of the information the article is supposed to present.<br />
<br />
I tend to think the two approaches are night and day, and you're not the first user to run afoul of the general community atmosphere by trying to edit here the same way he does at Wikipedia. I don't know if I agree with Walky blocking you permanently, but he ''is'' the guy who helped facilitate the move off of Wikia, onto his own hosting no less, and even though we've moved hosting since then he's still been instrumental in keeping things running, including picking up the slack when the advertising doesn't cover our hosting bills. He has done some of the "heavy lifting," so to speak and for the most part he's a reasonable guy. In this case, he's ''exactly right'' that you're exhibiting some behaviors that don't really work with how this wiki has operated. Maybe he didn't explain that in a way that's satisfying to you, but I can honestly say that if you had continued your pattern of edits I would have blocked you myself, if not for Rook then for something else. If you're ever to be ''un''blocked, these are behaviors that would need to be fixed. Some people get the benefit of the doubt because of how much time and sweat they've invested in the place. You haven't earned that yet.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 11:56, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:Agreed, I have not earned it yet. That's why I made my proposal. I cann't earn the respect if I cannot post, so I am offering my "pledge" and ask for the ability to earn the respect. As I proposed, i will not edit voluntarely for ONE WEEK. I will then attempt to only make edits within my pledge, and with (hopefully) the blessing of the majority of the users here in an appropriate fashion that will help the wiki. I want you to give me feedback on this, so I don't ruffle ANY feathers. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 12:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::... You also can't earn respect by signing up under an alt ID after being banned. That is also against the rules. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You can't show anything if you can't even type, and I was only under an IP, not I have a proper user name. So I made this page to make a proposal, and I'm NOT editing the wiki until things are good with most of the editors. I'm hoping to get some feedback and direction. Walky, would it be a such a horrible thing if I worked in the proper manner to articles that needed the work? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Yes. Yes it would. Please go away now. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:39, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I usually avoid politics round here like the plague, but you do seem to be making this personal, ItsWalky. Why not give him a chance. Worst comes to worst, he proves you right and goes far far away [[User:Eire]] 23.01 Nov 23 09 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Yeah, this. Ban someone because they've broken the rules of the site, yes obviously, and at this point I might well support the ban on those grounds just because he's done that multiple times by now.<br />
:::::::But banning someone due to a personal grudge? I'm sorry, but, we all have people in the TF fandom we don't like (and I know I'm probably on a few people's lists), but that doesn't mean anyone should be abusing their power to act like children who don't want to share the playground if the people in question ''do'' obey the rules.<br />
:::::::I've spent a lot of time trying to defend this place as being one where good editing is what's important rather than being in (or out of) the admins' private clique, and I'd rather not be made to look like a fool. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::If I got rid of people solely because I didn't get along with them, then I don't think you'd be here, Jeysie. But Mignash is wiki poison. WIKI POISON. This wiki EXISTS because I wanted a Transformers wiki outside of his poisonous influence. So, sorry. Mignash can go edit at Wikia. He doesn't have to go home, but he can't stay here. <br />
::::::::(Also also, I am not getting into a circular argument with Jeysie over Matthew friggin' Ignash, so make what condescending remarks you want about me and I'll just pretend I never saw them.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:15, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::Feeling's more than mutual, trust me.<br />
:::::::::But like I said, you weren't saying you banned Mignash because he broke the rules, which would have been fine with me, but because you have some personal vendetta with him. I '''support''' the ban for the former reason (so this isn't me trying to argue about him being unbanned), but wanted to express that I have a major problem with any admin trying to pull the latter reason. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:30, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::::I have had first-hand experience with Mignash's dense bullshit over at Wikipedia. I have absolutely no issue with Walky banning him on sheer principle. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 20:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::::Seriously, you support a full lifetime BAN without warning from a site for a couple of arguements over posts that were already settled with another admin? Especially after Ro talked to me, and I agreed to play nice. All I can say is, don't get on Walky's bad side. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 19:56, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
:::::::It seems odd that when Rosicrucian asked me to stop an edit, I did as he asked, and moved it to a talk page. The Walky, who never contacted me privately, then banned is ISP for life, then banned my user account for life and made it very clear it's because he doesn't like me from knowing me on other boards. Dude, we are both TF collectors. We are probably more alike than different. Let's keep it friendly. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 18:10, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
::I do think that's a good way to start. Doing meat and potatoes editing and filling out articles is a good thing, and your interest in Shattered Glass could be a good thing as you could collaborate with Jeysie in getting the character articles filled out with the missing fiction. Try not to stress the captions so much, as like everything they're secondary to the content itself.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:20, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::I'd appreciate Primal Rage's help. The list of Shattered Glass stubs is way too long, and there needs to be more editors working on it. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::Blackout, why don't you pick a character or two for me to start researching on, and in a week, if there isn't a problem with me posting, I'll try to update them? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:33, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::It's one of the things that caught the wiki by surprise, I think. For the longest time, the fiction output by the club was negligible, and now they're consistently putting out a fair bit of it, and it's reasonably detailed. I personally plan on getting a club membership next month to start to help out on that, but this month my money's fairly well tied up.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:51, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::If only I could do that. Unfortunately, club membership is rather hard to get where I am. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I have some duplicates of some back issues of the club magazine. If they went to a good cause, like reviewing on the wiki, I'd donate them. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 17:29, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::Yeah, it was a combo of, I've whittled the list by now down to those things that need a ''lot'' of write-up, and as much as I need the money, my temp job's kept me busy and stressed lately on top of it. I originally took it on as a pet project because nobody was really touching the SG stuff, so it seemed like something I could have fun picking away at without stepping on anyone's toes. But now that, as you say, the fiction's gotten more involved... --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:53, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
<br />
==The Evidence==<br />
:Anyone want to see the aort of stuff Walky and I used to talk about on Wikipedia? I looked up every time I could find Walky and I even spoke to one another. <br />
<br />
#Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:ItsWalky for a talk about a picture he changed that I had uploaded. When I asked him about it, he explained it and I did nothing, as he seemed to have a point. No arguement. <br />
<br />
# Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Transformers/Archive_2#The_Affiilations_of_Primus_and_Unicron for a talk about whether Primus and Unicron should be listed as Autobot and/or Decepticon. The end result was the being listed as Autobot/None and Decepticon/None, a comprimise. <br />
<br />
# Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Silverbolt There was a talk about whether Universe Fuzor Silverbolt was painted like the Beast Machines character in the TV show. I provided links to articles where people backed me up an dhis response "Congratulations, you just found three colorblind people."<br />
<br />
Just who was harassing whom at Wikipedia Walky? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 20:54, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Okay... so Walky edited a pic of yours. Last I checked you don't get to call "no modsies" on pics uploaded to Wikipedia. And then you get in an argument with a lot of other users, Walky posts once, and somehow that qualifies as you vs Walky the evil future dictator? (it doesn't help that they're right and you're wrong, Primus isn't an Autobot and Unicron isn't a Decepticon) I'm not really sure what kind of point you're trying to make here... --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:52, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::Point here is Walky edited my picture, and I asked him, he answered and NOTHING HAPPENED. He makes it sound like there was some horrible war on Wikipeida. Sounds more to me like his memory is invention something that didn't happen. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 20:55, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Picture needs request==<br />
I recently donated some pictures of Jazz's head to the tfwiki as requested on the Allspark. I have a good camera now (need some lighting) and a sizeable colleciton of toys, some VERY obscure. Is there a list of pictures that need to be taken? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:48, 23 November 2009 (EST)</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Primal_Rage&diff=394763User talk:Primal Rage2009-11-24T01:54:22Z<p>Primal Rage: </p>
<hr />
<div>==Past talk==<br />
Eire and Detour's reasoning is sound. The stub template encourages people to contribute to the article which lacks information. By providing a, let's face it, rather short and cursory passage that basically says "The good guys arrive somewhere. Stuff happens and they fight the bad guys. They win, and leave", people are less likely to take the time to complete the article, because people are less inclined to completely rewrite somebody else's work, no matter how little information it conveys. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:51, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
No long description exists that I can find, nor even a translation into english. If you have some english translation I will provide a longer description. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 15:10, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:In that case you *PROBABLY* pad out the synopsis with more detailed descriptions of things happening so you can get at least a few paragraphs, but leave the stub tags around, and perhaps even a <nowiki>((cleanup|date|insert description here}}</nowiki> saying this synopsis was done without the benefit of translated text. Or doing this may offend our staff and regular users, heh. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:55, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I never removed the stub notice in the first place, I just added a couple sentences of overview, and it got delted. Yet somehow the people deleting it failed to offer anything better. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 22:17, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:(re: claims on FFN's talk page) You ''did'' remove the stub notice, mignash. Check your edit history. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:31, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::(You're supposed to keep all talk page replies on the one page so the conversation can be followed on a single page, as opposed to multiple pages on multiple windows/tabs.) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::Thanks! I hadn't seen that left it in this time. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 12:28, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Please, stop your edit war on [[Rook (SG)]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:44, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:I agree. Please remove political commentaries. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::Okay, since you seem to be missing the point let me say that if you remove that one more time without getting some other users to support you, I am giving you a time-out. Right now, the majority seem to be in favor of the caption.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::It seems' It's Walky blocked me ANYWAYS, even if I didn't change it again. His reason for blocking seems to be because I'm me. What's up with that? [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:26, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You know, I searched for a Transformers wiki years ago, ultimately leading to the creation of this place, because some dude named "mignash" was such a pain on Wikipedia. Such a pain. He was so big of a pain that he was even banned from there for a time! So no, you're not allowed. Neither you nor your fun political insanities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::THANK YOU. I do not want edit-wars all over Shattered Glass. <br />
:::::(Believe it or not, now I feel embarrassed about supporting his bid to include a mention of the Seekers on the Wikipedia article on the F-15 Eagle.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:36, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::What political insanities? Because I added a comment on Obama, which isn't even that bad? Rosicrucian asked me not to revert the page any more and I did as asked. so it seems you are into banning people you don't like? --[[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:41, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::No, that's just how I knew it was you, rather than some other harmless anom merely obsessed with Shattered Glass. So you're going, exactly because you're you, because you're not allowed here. '''TFwiki.net exists to avoid Matthew Ignash'''. That's specifically why the original Wikia site was sought by me, so we could have a Transformers Wiki safe from your edit wars. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::I wasn't aware you created and owned the site. Sorry to intrude on your private property. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:49, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Current members talk==<br />
While Walky could have perhaps put it more tactfully, he's certainly hit upon something that is a critical difference between the Wikipedia dynamic and the atmosphere here. At Wikipedia, there is continual dynamic tension between the policy wonks and those that are passionate about the subject matter. In fact at Wikipedia it's not uncommon to have someone who is ''entirely uninterested'' in the subject matter of an article, and just enforcing policy. Sometimes the policy wonks win, and an article gets locked down in the "correct" form. Sometimes they give up, allowing an editor to set up what amounts to a little fiefdom in a collection of articles. Here, though? Well, for one the default assumption is that we're ''all'' passionate about the subject matter, even if we take it with varying degrees of seriousness. We're here, right? Second, we're much looser policy-wise. Most of our policy documents have evolved within the past year or two, and are mainly just setting down in text things that we've agreed on in the past. It's much more "D&D house rules" than "Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?" As a result we'll almost ''never'' sanitize an article to fit one user's complaints, unless they can justify that it's getting in the way of the information the article is supposed to present.<br />
<br />
I tend to think the two approaches are night and day, and you're not the first user to run afoul of the general community atmosphere by trying to edit here the same way he does at Wikipedia. I don't know if I agree with Walky blocking you permanently, but he ''is'' the guy who helped facilitate the move off of Wikia, onto his own hosting no less, and even though we've moved hosting since then he's still been instrumental in keeping things running, including picking up the slack when the advertising doesn't cover our hosting bills. He has done some of the "heavy lifting," so to speak and for the most part he's a reasonable guy. In this case, he's ''exactly right'' that you're exhibiting some behaviors that don't really work with how this wiki has operated. Maybe he didn't explain that in a way that's satisfying to you, but I can honestly say that if you had continued your pattern of edits I would have blocked you myself, if not for Rook then for something else. If you're ever to be ''un''blocked, these are behaviors that would need to be fixed. Some people get the benefit of the doubt because of how much time and sweat they've invested in the place. You haven't earned that yet.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 11:56, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:Agreed, I have not earned it yet. That's why I made my proposal. I cann't earn the respect if I cannot post, so I am offering my "pledge" and ask for the ability to earn the respect. As I proposed, i will not edit voluntarely for ONE WEEK. I will then attempt to only make edits within my pledge, and with (hopefully) the blessing of the majority of the users here in an appropriate fashion that will help the wiki. I want you to give me feedback on this, so I don't ruffle ANY feathers. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 12:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::... You also can't earn respect by signing up under an alt ID after being banned. That is also against the rules. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You can't show anything if you can't even type, and I was only under an IP, not I have a proper user name. So I made this page to make a proposal, and I'm NOT editing the wiki until things are good with most of the editors. I'm hoping to get some feedback and direction. Walky, would it be a such a horrible thing if I worked in the proper manner to articles that needed the work? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Yes. Yes it would. Please go away now. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:39, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I usually avoid politics round here like the plague, but you do seem to be making this personal, ItsWalky. Why not give him a chance. Worst comes to worst, he proves you right and goes far far away [[User:Eire]] 23.01 Nov 23 09 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Yeah, this. Ban someone because they've broken the rules of the site, yes obviously, and at this point I might well support the ban on those grounds just because he's done that multiple times by now.<br />
:::::::But banning someone due to a personal grudge? I'm sorry, but, we all have people in the TF fandom we don't like (and I know I'm probably on a few people's lists), but that doesn't mean anyone should be abusing their power to act like children who don't want to share the playground if the people in question ''do'' obey the rules.<br />
:::::::I've spent a lot of time trying to defend this place as being one where good editing is what's important rather than being in (or out of) the admins' private clique, and I'd rather not be made to look like a fool. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::If I got rid of people solely because I didn't get along with them, then I don't think you'd be here, Jeysie. But Mignash is wiki poison. WIKI POISON. This wiki EXISTS because I wanted a Transformers wiki outside of his poisonous influence. So, sorry. Mignash can go edit at Wikia. He doesn't have to go home, but he can't stay here. <br />
::::::::(Also also, I am not getting into a circular argument with Jeysie over Matthew friggin' Ignash, so make what condescending remarks you want about me and I'll just pretend I never saw them.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:15, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::Feeling's more than mutual, trust me.<br />
:::::::::But like I said, you weren't saying you banned Mignash because he broke the rules, which would have been fine with me, but because you have some personal vendetta with him. I '''support''' the ban for the former reason (so this isn't me trying to argue about him being unbanned), but wanted to express that I have a major problem with any admin trying to pull the latter reason. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:30, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::::I have had first-hand experience with Mignash's dense bullshit over at Wikipedia. I have absolutely no issue with Walky banning him on sheer principle. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 20:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::::Seriously, you support a full lifetime BAN without warning from a site for a couple of arguements over posts that were already settled with another admin? Especially after Ro talked to me, and I agreed to play nice. All I can say is, don't get on Walky's bad side. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 19:56, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
:::::::It seems odd that when Rosicrucian asked me to stop an edit, I did as he asked, and moved it to a talk page. The Walky, who never contacted me privately, then banned is ISP for life, then banned my user account for life and made it very clear it's because he doesn't like me from knowing me on other boards. Dude, we are both TF collectors. We are probably more alike than different. Let's keep it friendly. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 18:10, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
::I do think that's a good way to start. Doing meat and potatoes editing and filling out articles is a good thing, and your interest in Shattered Glass could be a good thing as you could collaborate with Jeysie in getting the character articles filled out with the missing fiction. Try not to stress the captions so much, as like everything they're secondary to the content itself.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:20, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::I'd appreciate Primal Rage's help. The list of Shattered Glass stubs is way too long, and there needs to be more editors working on it. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::Blackout, why don't you pick a character or two for me to start researching on, and in a week, if there isn't a problem with me posting, I'll try to update them? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:33, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::It's one of the things that caught the wiki by surprise, I think. For the longest time, the fiction output by the club was negligible, and now they're consistently putting out a fair bit of it, and it's reasonably detailed. I personally plan on getting a club membership next month to start to help out on that, but this month my money's fairly well tied up.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:51, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::If only I could do that. Unfortunately, club membership is rather hard to get where I am. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I have some duplicates of some back issues of the club magazine. If they went to a good cause, like reviewing on the wiki, I'd donate them. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 17:29, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::Yeah, it was a combo of, I've whittled the list by now down to those things that need a ''lot'' of write-up, and as much as I need the money, my temp job's kept me busy and stressed lately on top of it. I originally took it on as a pet project because nobody was really touching the SG stuff, so it seemed like something I could have fun picking away at without stepping on anyone's toes. But now that, as you say, the fiction's gotten more involved... --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:53, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
<br />
==The Evidence==<br />
:Anyone want to see the aort of stuff Walky and I used to talk about on Wikipedia? I looked up every time I could find Walky and I even spoke to one another. <br />
<br />
#Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:ItsWalky for a talk about a picture he changed that I had uploaded. When I asked him about it, he explained it and I did nothing, as he seemed to have a point. No arguement. <br />
<br />
# Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Transformers/Archive_2#The_Affiilations_of_Primus_and_Unicron for a talk about whether Primus and Unicron should be listed as Autobot and/or Decepticon. The end result was the being listed as Autobot/None and Decepticon/None, a comprimise. <br />
<br />
# Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Silverbolt There was a talk about whether Universe Fuzor Silverbolt was painted like the Beast Machines character in the TV show. I provided links to articles where people backed me up an dhis response "Congratulations, you just found three colorblind people."<br />
<br />
Just who was harassing whom at Wikipedia Walky? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 20:54, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
::Okay... so Walky edited a pic of yours. Last I checked you don't get to call "no modsies" on pics uploaded to Wikipedia. And then you get in an argument with a lot of other users, Walky posts once, and somehow that qualifies as you vs Walky the evil future dictator? (it doesn't help that they're right and you're wrong, Primus isn't an Autobot and Unicron isn't a Decepticon) I'm not really sure what kind of point you're trying to make here... --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:52, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Picture needs request==<br />
I recently donated some pictures of Jazz's head to the tfwiki as requested on the Allspark. I have a good camera now (need some lighting) and a sizeable colleciton of toys, some VERY obscure. Is there a list of pictures that need to be taken? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:48, 23 November 2009 (EST)</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Primal_Rage&diff=394759User talk:Primal Rage2009-11-24T01:37:15Z<p>Primal Rage: /* Current members talk */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Past talk==<br />
Eire and Detour's reasoning is sound. The stub template encourages people to contribute to the article which lacks information. By providing a, let's face it, rather short and cursory passage that basically says "The good guys arrive somewhere. Stuff happens and they fight the bad guys. They win, and leave", people are less likely to take the time to complete the article, because people are less inclined to completely rewrite somebody else's work, no matter how little information it conveys. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:51, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
No long description exists that I can find, nor even a translation into english. If you have some english translation I will provide a longer description. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 15:10, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:In that case you *PROBABLY* pad out the synopsis with more detailed descriptions of things happening so you can get at least a few paragraphs, but leave the stub tags around, and perhaps even a <nowiki>((cleanup|date|insert description here}}</nowiki> saying this synopsis was done without the benefit of translated text. Or doing this may offend our staff and regular users, heh. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:55, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I never removed the stub notice in the first place, I just added a couple sentences of overview, and it got delted. Yet somehow the people deleting it failed to offer anything better. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 22:17, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:(re: claims on FFN's talk page) You ''did'' remove the stub notice, mignash. Check your edit history. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:31, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::(You're supposed to keep all talk page replies on the one page so the conversation can be followed on a single page, as opposed to multiple pages on multiple windows/tabs.) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::Thanks! I hadn't seen that left it in this time. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 12:28, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Please, stop your edit war on [[Rook (SG)]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:44, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:I agree. Please remove political commentaries. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::Okay, since you seem to be missing the point let me say that if you remove that one more time without getting some other users to support you, I am giving you a time-out. Right now, the majority seem to be in favor of the caption.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::It seems' It's Walky blocked me ANYWAYS, even if I didn't change it again. His reason for blocking seems to be because I'm me. What's up with that? [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:26, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You know, I searched for a Transformers wiki years ago, ultimately leading to the creation of this place, because some dude named "mignash" was such a pain on Wikipedia. Such a pain. He was so big of a pain that he was even banned from there for a time! So no, you're not allowed. Neither you nor your fun political insanities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::THANK YOU. I do not want edit-wars all over Shattered Glass. <br />
:::::(Believe it or not, now I feel embarrassed about supporting his bid to include a mention of the Seekers on the Wikipedia article on the F-15 Eagle.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:36, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::What political insanities? Because I added a comment on Obama, which isn't even that bad? Rosicrucian asked me not to revert the page any more and I did as asked. so it seems you are into banning people you don't like? --[[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:41, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::No, that's just how I knew it was you, rather than some other harmless anom merely obsessed with Shattered Glass. So you're going, exactly because you're you, because you're not allowed here. '''TFwiki.net exists to avoid Matthew Ignash'''. That's specifically why the original Wikia site was sought by me, so we could have a Transformers Wiki safe from your edit wars. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::I wasn't aware you created and owned the site. Sorry to intrude on your private property. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:49, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Current members talk==<br />
While Walky could have perhaps put it more tactfully, he's certainly hit upon something that is a critical difference between the Wikipedia dynamic and the atmosphere here. At Wikipedia, there is continual dynamic tension between the policy wonks and those that are passionate about the subject matter. In fact at Wikipedia it's not uncommon to have someone who is ''entirely uninterested'' in the subject matter of an article, and just enforcing policy. Sometimes the policy wonks win, and an article gets locked down in the "correct" form. Sometimes they give up, allowing an editor to set up what amounts to a little fiefdom in a collection of articles. Here, though? Well, for one the default assumption is that we're ''all'' passionate about the subject matter, even if we take it with varying degrees of seriousness. We're here, right? Second, we're much looser policy-wise. Most of our policy documents have evolved within the past year or two, and are mainly just setting down in text things that we've agreed on in the past. It's much more "D&D house rules" than "Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?" As a result we'll almost ''never'' sanitize an article to fit one user's complaints, unless they can justify that it's getting in the way of the information the article is supposed to present.<br />
<br />
I tend to think the two approaches are night and day, and you're not the first user to run afoul of the general community atmosphere by trying to edit here the same way he does at Wikipedia. I don't know if I agree with Walky blocking you permanently, but he ''is'' the guy who helped facilitate the move off of Wikia, onto his own hosting no less, and even though we've moved hosting since then he's still been instrumental in keeping things running, including picking up the slack when the advertising doesn't cover our hosting bills. He has done some of the "heavy lifting," so to speak and for the most part he's a reasonable guy. In this case, he's ''exactly right'' that you're exhibiting some behaviors that don't really work with how this wiki has operated. Maybe he didn't explain that in a way that's satisfying to you, but I can honestly say that if you had continued your pattern of edits I would have blocked you myself, if not for Rook then for something else. If you're ever to be ''un''blocked, these are behaviors that would need to be fixed. Some people get the benefit of the doubt because of how much time and sweat they've invested in the place. You haven't earned that yet.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 11:56, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:Agreed, I have not earned it yet. That's why I made my proposal. I cann't earn the respect if I cannot post, so I am offering my "pledge" and ask for the ability to earn the respect. As I proposed, i will not edit voluntarely for ONE WEEK. I will then attempt to only make edits within my pledge, and with (hopefully) the blessing of the majority of the users here in an appropriate fashion that will help the wiki. I want you to give me feedback on this, so I don't ruffle ANY feathers. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 12:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::... You also can't earn respect by signing up under an alt ID after being banned. That is also against the rules. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You can't show anything if you can't even type, and I was only under an IP, not I have a proper user name. So I made this page to make a proposal, and I'm NOT editing the wiki until things are good with most of the editors. I'm hoping to get some feedback and direction. Walky, would it be a such a horrible thing if I worked in the proper manner to articles that needed the work? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Yes. Yes it would. Please go away now. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:39, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I usually avoid politics round here like the plague, but you do seem to be making this personal, ItsWalky. Why not give him a chance. Worst comes to worst, he proves you right and goes far far away [[User:Eire]] 23.01 Nov 23 09 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Yeah, this. Ban someone because they've broken the rules of the site, yes obviously, and at this point I might well support the ban on those grounds just because he's done that multiple times by now.<br />
:::::::But banning someone due to a personal grudge? I'm sorry, but, we all have people in the TF fandom we don't like (and I know I'm probably on a few people's lists), but that doesn't mean anyone should be abusing their power to act like children who don't want to share the playground if the people in question ''do'' obey the rules.<br />
:::::::I've spent a lot of time trying to defend this place as being one where good editing is what's important rather than being in (or out of) the admins' private clique, and I'd rather not be made to look like a fool. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::If I got rid of people solely because I didn't get along with them, then I don't think you'd be here, Jeysie. But Mignash is wiki poison. WIKI POISON. This wiki EXISTS because I wanted a Transformers wiki outside of his poisonous influence. So, sorry. Mignash can go edit at Wikia. He doesn't have to go home, but he can't stay here. <br />
::::::::(Also also, I am not getting into a circular argument with Jeysie over Matthew friggin' Ignash, so make what condescending remarks you want about me and I'll just pretend I never saw them.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:15, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::Feeling's more than mutual, trust me.<br />
:::::::::But like I said, you weren't saying you banned Mignash because he broke the rules, which would have been fine with me, but because you have some personal vendetta with him. I '''support''' the ban for the former reason (so this isn't me trying to argue about him being unbanned), but wanted to express that I have a major problem with any admin trying to pull the latter reason. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:30, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::::I have had first-hand experience with Mignash's dense bullshit over at Wikipedia. I have absolutely no issue with Walky banning him on sheer principle. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 20:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::::Seriously, you support a full lifetime BAN without warning from a site for a couple of arguements over posts that were already settled with another admin? Especially after Ro talked to me, and I agreed to play nice. All I can say is, don't get on Walky's bad side. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 19:56, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
:::::::It seems odd that when Rosicrucian asked me to stop an edit, I did as he asked, and moved it to a talk page. The Walky, who never contacted me privately, then banned is ISP for life, then banned my user account for life and made it very clear it's because he doesn't like me from knowing me on other boards. Dude, we are both TF collectors. We are probably more alike than different. Let's keep it friendly. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 18:10, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
::I do think that's a good way to start. Doing meat and potatoes editing and filling out articles is a good thing, and your interest in Shattered Glass could be a good thing as you could collaborate with Jeysie in getting the character articles filled out with the missing fiction. Try not to stress the captions so much, as like everything they're secondary to the content itself.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:20, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::I'd appreciate Primal Rage's help. The list of Shattered Glass stubs is way too long, and there needs to be more editors working on it. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::Blackout, why don't you pick a character or two for me to start researching on, and in a week, if there isn't a problem with me posting, I'll try to update them? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:33, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::It's one of the things that caught the wiki by surprise, I think. For the longest time, the fiction output by the club was negligible, and now they're consistently putting out a fair bit of it, and it's reasonably detailed. I personally plan on getting a club membership next month to start to help out on that, but this month my money's fairly well tied up.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:51, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::If only I could do that. Unfortunately, club membership is rather hard to get where I am. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I have some duplicates of some back issues of the club magazine. If they went to a good cause, like reviewing on the wiki, I'd donate them. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 17:29, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::Yeah, it was a combo of, I've whittled the list by now down to those things that need a ''lot'' of write-up, and as much as I need the money, my temp job's kept me busy and stressed lately on top of it. I originally took it on as a pet project because nobody was really touching the SG stuff, so it seemed like something I could have fun picking away at without stepping on anyone's toes. But now that, as you say, the fiction's gotten more involved... --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:53, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Anyone want to see the aort of stuff Walky and I used to talk about on Wikipedia? Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:ItsWalky for a talk about a picture he changed that I had uploaded. Or here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Transformers/Archive_2#The_Affiilations_of_Primus_and_Unicron for a talk about whether Primus and Unicron should be listed as Autobot and/or Decepticon. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 20:34, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Picture needs request==<br />
I recently donated some pictures of Jazz's head to the tfwiki as requested on the Allspark. I have a good camera now (need some lighting) and a sizeable colleciton of toys, some VERY obscure. Is there a list of pictures that need to be taken? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:48, 23 November 2009 (EST)</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Primal_Rage&diff=394758User talk:Primal Rage2009-11-24T01:34:29Z<p>Primal Rage: </p>
<hr />
<div>==Past talk==<br />
Eire and Detour's reasoning is sound. The stub template encourages people to contribute to the article which lacks information. By providing a, let's face it, rather short and cursory passage that basically says "The good guys arrive somewhere. Stuff happens and they fight the bad guys. They win, and leave", people are less likely to take the time to complete the article, because people are less inclined to completely rewrite somebody else's work, no matter how little information it conveys. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:51, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
No long description exists that I can find, nor even a translation into english. If you have some english translation I will provide a longer description. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 15:10, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:In that case you *PROBABLY* pad out the synopsis with more detailed descriptions of things happening so you can get at least a few paragraphs, but leave the stub tags around, and perhaps even a <nowiki>((cleanup|date|insert description here}}</nowiki> saying this synopsis was done without the benefit of translated text. Or doing this may offend our staff and regular users, heh. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:55, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I never removed the stub notice in the first place, I just added a couple sentences of overview, and it got delted. Yet somehow the people deleting it failed to offer anything better. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 22:17, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:(re: claims on FFN's talk page) You ''did'' remove the stub notice, mignash. Check your edit history. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:31, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::(You're supposed to keep all talk page replies on the one page so the conversation can be followed on a single page, as opposed to multiple pages on multiple windows/tabs.) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::Thanks! I hadn't seen that left it in this time. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 12:28, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Please, stop your edit war on [[Rook (SG)]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:44, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:I agree. Please remove political commentaries. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::Okay, since you seem to be missing the point let me say that if you remove that one more time without getting some other users to support you, I am giving you a time-out. Right now, the majority seem to be in favor of the caption.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::It seems' It's Walky blocked me ANYWAYS, even if I didn't change it again. His reason for blocking seems to be because I'm me. What's up with that? [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:26, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You know, I searched for a Transformers wiki years ago, ultimately leading to the creation of this place, because some dude named "mignash" was such a pain on Wikipedia. Such a pain. He was so big of a pain that he was even banned from there for a time! So no, you're not allowed. Neither you nor your fun political insanities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::THANK YOU. I do not want edit-wars all over Shattered Glass. <br />
:::::(Believe it or not, now I feel embarrassed about supporting his bid to include a mention of the Seekers on the Wikipedia article on the F-15 Eagle.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:36, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::What political insanities? Because I added a comment on Obama, which isn't even that bad? Rosicrucian asked me not to revert the page any more and I did as asked. so it seems you are into banning people you don't like? --[[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:41, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::No, that's just how I knew it was you, rather than some other harmless anom merely obsessed with Shattered Glass. So you're going, exactly because you're you, because you're not allowed here. '''TFwiki.net exists to avoid Matthew Ignash'''. That's specifically why the original Wikia site was sought by me, so we could have a Transformers Wiki safe from your edit wars. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::I wasn't aware you created and owned the site. Sorry to intrude on your private property. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:49, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Current members talk==<br />
While Walky could have perhaps put it more tactfully, he's certainly hit upon something that is a critical difference between the Wikipedia dynamic and the atmosphere here. At Wikipedia, there is continual dynamic tension between the policy wonks and those that are passionate about the subject matter. In fact at Wikipedia it's not uncommon to have someone who is ''entirely uninterested'' in the subject matter of an article, and just enforcing policy. Sometimes the policy wonks win, and an article gets locked down in the "correct" form. Sometimes they give up, allowing an editor to set up what amounts to a little fiefdom in a collection of articles. Here, though? Well, for one the default assumption is that we're ''all'' passionate about the subject matter, even if we take it with varying degrees of seriousness. We're here, right? Second, we're much looser policy-wise. Most of our policy documents have evolved within the past year or two, and are mainly just setting down in text things that we've agreed on in the past. It's much more "D&D house rules" than "Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?" As a result we'll almost ''never'' sanitize an article to fit one user's complaints, unless they can justify that it's getting in the way of the information the article is supposed to present.<br />
<br />
I tend to think the two approaches are night and day, and you're not the first user to run afoul of the general community atmosphere by trying to edit here the same way he does at Wikipedia. I don't know if I agree with Walky blocking you permanently, but he ''is'' the guy who helped facilitate the move off of Wikia, onto his own hosting no less, and even though we've moved hosting since then he's still been instrumental in keeping things running, including picking up the slack when the advertising doesn't cover our hosting bills. He has done some of the "heavy lifting," so to speak and for the most part he's a reasonable guy. In this case, he's ''exactly right'' that you're exhibiting some behaviors that don't really work with how this wiki has operated. Maybe he didn't explain that in a way that's satisfying to you, but I can honestly say that if you had continued your pattern of edits I would have blocked you myself, if not for Rook then for something else. If you're ever to be ''un''blocked, these are behaviors that would need to be fixed. Some people get the benefit of the doubt because of how much time and sweat they've invested in the place. You haven't earned that yet.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 11:56, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:Agreed, I have not earned it yet. That's why I made my proposal. I cann't earn the respect if I cannot post, so I am offering my "pledge" and ask for the ability to earn the respect. As I proposed, i will not edit voluntarely for ONE WEEK. I will then attempt to only make edits within my pledge, and with (hopefully) the blessing of the majority of the users here in an appropriate fashion that will help the wiki. I want you to give me feedback on this, so I don't ruffle ANY feathers. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 12:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::... You also can't earn respect by signing up under an alt ID after being banned. That is also against the rules. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You can't show anything if you can't even type, and I was only under an IP, not I have a proper user name. So I made this page to make a proposal, and I'm NOT editing the wiki until things are good with most of the editors. I'm hoping to get some feedback and direction. Walky, would it be a such a horrible thing if I worked in the proper manner to articles that needed the work? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Yes. Yes it would. Please go away now. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:39, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I usually avoid politics round here like the plague, but you do seem to be making this personal, ItsWalky. Why not give him a chance. Worst comes to worst, he proves you right and goes far far away [[User:Eire]] 23.01 Nov 23 09 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Yeah, this. Ban someone because they've broken the rules of the site, yes obviously, and at this point I might well support the ban on those grounds just because he's done that multiple times by now.<br />
:::::::But banning someone due to a personal grudge? I'm sorry, but, we all have people in the TF fandom we don't like (and I know I'm probably on a few people's lists), but that doesn't mean anyone should be abusing their power to act like children who don't want to share the playground if the people in question ''do'' obey the rules.<br />
:::::::I've spent a lot of time trying to defend this place as being one where good editing is what's important rather than being in (or out of) the admins' private clique, and I'd rather not be made to look like a fool. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::If I got rid of people solely because I didn't get along with them, then I don't think you'd be here, Jeysie. But Mignash is wiki poison. WIKI POISON. This wiki EXISTS because I wanted a Transformers wiki outside of his poisonous influence. So, sorry. Mignash can go edit at Wikia. He doesn't have to go home, but he can't stay here. <br />
::::::::(Also also, I am not getting into a circular argument with Jeysie over Matthew friggin' Ignash, so make what condescending remarks you want about me and I'll just pretend I never saw them.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:15, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::Feeling's more than mutual, trust me.<br />
:::::::::But like I said, you weren't saying you banned Mignash because he broke the rules, which would have been fine with me, but because you have some personal vendetta with him. I '''support''' the ban for the former reason (so this isn't me trying to argue about him being unbanned), but wanted to express that I have a major problem with any admin trying to pull the latter reason. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:30, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::::I have had first-hand experience with Mignash's dense bullshit over at Wikipedia. I have absolutely no issue with Walky banning him on sheer principle. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 20:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::::Seriously, you support a full lifetime BAN without warning from a site for a couple of arguements over posts that were already settled with another admin? Especially after Ro talked to me, and I agreed to play nice. All I can say is, don't get on Walky's bad side. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 19:56, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
:::::::It seems odd that when Rosicrucian asked me to stop an edit, I did as he asked, and moved it to a talk page. The Walky, who never contacted me privately, then banned is ISP for life, then banned my user account for life and made it very clear it's because he doesn't like me from knowing me on other boards. Dude, we are both TF collectors. We are probably more alike than different. Let's keep it friendly. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 18:10, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
::I do think that's a good way to start. Doing meat and potatoes editing and filling out articles is a good thing, and your interest in Shattered Glass could be a good thing as you could collaborate with Jeysie in getting the character articles filled out with the missing fiction. Try not to stress the captions so much, as like everything they're secondary to the content itself.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:20, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::I'd appreciate Primal Rage's help. The list of Shattered Glass stubs is way too long, and there needs to be more editors working on it. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::Blackout, why don't you pick a character or two for me to start researching on, and in a week, if there isn't a problem with me posting, I'll try to update them? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:33, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::It's one of the things that caught the wiki by surprise, I think. For the longest time, the fiction output by the club was negligible, and now they're consistently putting out a fair bit of it, and it's reasonably detailed. I personally plan on getting a club membership next month to start to help out on that, but this month my money's fairly well tied up.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:51, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::If only I could do that. Unfortunately, club membership is rather hard to get where I am. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I have some duplicates of some back issues of the club magazine. If they went to a good cause, like reviewing on the wiki, I'd donate them. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 17:29, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::Yeah, it was a combo of, I've whittled the list by now down to those things that need a ''lot'' of write-up, and as much as I need the money, my temp job's kept me busy and stressed lately on top of it. I originally took it on as a pet project because nobody was really touching the SG stuff, so it seemed like something I could have fun picking away at without stepping on anyone's toes. But now that, as you say, the fiction's gotten more involved... --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:53, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:Anyone want to see the aort of stuff Walky and I used to talk about on Wikipedia? Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:ItsWalky [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 20:34, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Picture needs request==<br />
I recently donated some pictures of Jazz's head to the tfwiki as requested on the Allspark. I have a good camera now (need some lighting) and a sizeable colleciton of toys, some VERY obscure. Is there a list of pictures that need to be taken? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:48, 23 November 2009 (EST)</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Primal_Rage&diff=394753User talk:Primal Rage2009-11-24T00:56:45Z<p>Primal Rage: /* Current members talk */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Past talk==<br />
Eire and Detour's reasoning is sound. The stub template encourages people to contribute to the article which lacks information. By providing a, let's face it, rather short and cursory passage that basically says "The good guys arrive somewhere. Stuff happens and they fight the bad guys. They win, and leave", people are less likely to take the time to complete the article, because people are less inclined to completely rewrite somebody else's work, no matter how little information it conveys. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:51, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
No long description exists that I can find, nor even a translation into english. If you have some english translation I will provide a longer description. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 15:10, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:In that case you *PROBABLY* pad out the synopsis with more detailed descriptions of things happening so you can get at least a few paragraphs, but leave the stub tags around, and perhaps even a <nowiki>((cleanup|date|insert description here}}</nowiki> saying this synopsis was done without the benefit of translated text. Or doing this may offend our staff and regular users, heh. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:55, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I never removed the stub notice in the first place, I just added a couple sentences of overview, and it got delted. Yet somehow the people deleting it failed to offer anything better. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 22:17, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:(re: claims on FFN's talk page) You ''did'' remove the stub notice, mignash. Check your edit history. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:31, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::(You're supposed to keep all talk page replies on the one page so the conversation can be followed on a single page, as opposed to multiple pages on multiple windows/tabs.) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::Thanks! I hadn't seen that left it in this time. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 12:28, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Please, stop your edit war on [[Rook (SG)]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:44, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:I agree. Please remove political commentaries. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::Okay, since you seem to be missing the point let me say that if you remove that one more time without getting some other users to support you, I am giving you a time-out. Right now, the majority seem to be in favor of the caption.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::It seems' It's Walky blocked me ANYWAYS, even if I didn't change it again. His reason for blocking seems to be because I'm me. What's up with that? [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:26, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You know, I searched for a Transformers wiki years ago, ultimately leading to the creation of this place, because some dude named "mignash" was such a pain on Wikipedia. Such a pain. He was so big of a pain that he was even banned from there for a time! So no, you're not allowed. Neither you nor your fun political insanities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::THANK YOU. I do not want edit-wars all over Shattered Glass. <br />
:::::(Believe it or not, now I feel embarrassed about supporting his bid to include a mention of the Seekers on the Wikipedia article on the F-15 Eagle.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:36, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::What political insanities? Because I added a comment on Obama, which isn't even that bad? Rosicrucian asked me not to revert the page any more and I did as asked. so it seems you are into banning people you don't like? --[[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:41, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::No, that's just how I knew it was you, rather than some other harmless anom merely obsessed with Shattered Glass. So you're going, exactly because you're you, because you're not allowed here. '''TFwiki.net exists to avoid Matthew Ignash'''. That's specifically why the original Wikia site was sought by me, so we could have a Transformers Wiki safe from your edit wars. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::I wasn't aware you created and owned the site. Sorry to intrude on your private property. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:49, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Current members talk==<br />
While Walky could have perhaps put it more tactfully, he's certainly hit upon something that is a critical difference between the Wikipedia dynamic and the atmosphere here. At Wikipedia, there is continual dynamic tension between the policy wonks and those that are passionate about the subject matter. In fact at Wikipedia it's not uncommon to have someone who is ''entirely uninterested'' in the subject matter of an article, and just enforcing policy. Sometimes the policy wonks win, and an article gets locked down in the "correct" form. Sometimes they give up, allowing an editor to set up what amounts to a little fiefdom in a collection of articles. Here, though? Well, for one the default assumption is that we're ''all'' passionate about the subject matter, even if we take it with varying degrees of seriousness. We're here, right? Second, we're much looser policy-wise. Most of our policy documents have evolved within the past year or two, and are mainly just setting down in text things that we've agreed on in the past. It's much more "D&D house rules" than "Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?" As a result we'll almost ''never'' sanitize an article to fit one user's complaints, unless they can justify that it's getting in the way of the information the article is supposed to present.<br />
<br />
I tend to think the two approaches are night and day, and you're not the first user to run afoul of the general community atmosphere by trying to edit here the same way he does at Wikipedia. I don't know if I agree with Walky blocking you permanently, but he ''is'' the guy who helped facilitate the move off of Wikia, onto his own hosting no less, and even though we've moved hosting since then he's still been instrumental in keeping things running, including picking up the slack when the advertising doesn't cover our hosting bills. He has done some of the "heavy lifting," so to speak and for the most part he's a reasonable guy. In this case, he's ''exactly right'' that you're exhibiting some behaviors that don't really work with how this wiki has operated. Maybe he didn't explain that in a way that's satisfying to you, but I can honestly say that if you had continued your pattern of edits I would have blocked you myself, if not for Rook then for something else. If you're ever to be ''un''blocked, these are behaviors that would need to be fixed. Some people get the benefit of the doubt because of how much time and sweat they've invested in the place. You haven't earned that yet.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 11:56, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:Agreed, I have not earned it yet. That's why I made my proposal. I cann't earn the respect if I cannot post, so I am offering my "pledge" and ask for the ability to earn the respect. As I proposed, i will not edit voluntarely for ONE WEEK. I will then attempt to only make edits within my pledge, and with (hopefully) the blessing of the majority of the users here in an appropriate fashion that will help the wiki. I want you to give me feedback on this, so I don't ruffle ANY feathers. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 12:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::... You also can't earn respect by signing up under an alt ID after being banned. That is also against the rules. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You can't show anything if you can't even type, and I was only under an IP, not I have a proper user name. So I made this page to make a proposal, and I'm NOT editing the wiki until things are good with most of the editors. I'm hoping to get some feedback and direction. Walky, would it be a such a horrible thing if I worked in the proper manner to articles that needed the work? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Yes. Yes it would. Please go away now. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:39, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I usually avoid politics round here like the plague, but you do seem to be making this personal, ItsWalky. Why not give him a chance. Worst comes to worst, he proves you right and goes far far away [[User:Eire]] 23.01 Nov 23 09 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Yeah, this. Ban someone because they've broken the rules of the site, yes obviously, and at this point I might well support the ban on those grounds just because he's done that multiple times by now.<br />
:::::::But banning someone due to a personal grudge? I'm sorry, but, we all have people in the TF fandom we don't like (and I know I'm probably on a few people's lists), but that doesn't mean anyone should be abusing their power to act like children who don't want to share the playground if the people in question ''do'' obey the rules.<br />
:::::::I've spent a lot of time trying to defend this place as being one where good editing is what's important rather than being in (or out of) the admins' private clique, and I'd rather not be made to look like a fool. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::If I got rid of people solely because I didn't get along with them, then I don't think you'd be here, Jeysie. But Mignash is wiki poison. WIKI POISON. This wiki EXISTS because I wanted a Transformers wiki outside of his poisonous influence. So, sorry. Mignash can go edit at Wikia. He doesn't have to go home, but he can't stay here. <br />
::::::::(Also also, I am not getting into a circular argument with Jeysie over Matthew friggin' Ignash, so make what condescending remarks you want about me and I'll just pretend I never saw them.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:15, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::Feeling's more than mutual, trust me.<br />
:::::::::But like I said, you weren't saying you banned Mignash because he broke the rules, which would have been fine with me, but because you have some personal vendetta with him. I '''support''' the ban for the former reason (so this isn't me trying to argue about him being unbanned), but wanted to express that I have a major problem with any admin trying to pull the latter reason. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:30, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::::Seriously, you support a full lifetime BAN without warning from a site for a couple of arguements over posts that were already settled with another admin? Especially after Ro talked to me, and I agreed to play nice. All I can say is, don't get on Walky's bad side. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 19:56, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
:::::::It seems odd that when Rosicrucian asked me to stop an edit, I did as he asked, and moved it to a talk page. The Walky, who never contacted me privately, then banned is ISP for life, then banned my user account for life and made it very clear it's because he doesn't like me from knowing me on other boards. Dude, we are both TF collectors. We are probably more alike than different. Let's keep it friendly. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 18:10, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
::I do think that's a good way to start. Doing meat and potatoes editing and filling out articles is a good thing, and your interest in Shattered Glass could be a good thing as you could collaborate with Jeysie in getting the character articles filled out with the missing fiction. Try not to stress the captions so much, as like everything they're secondary to the content itself.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:20, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::I'd appreciate Primal Rage's help. The list of Shattered Glass stubs is way too long, and there needs to be more editors working on it. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::Blackout, why don't you pick a character or two for me to start researching on, and in a week, if there isn't a problem with me posting, I'll try to update them? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:33, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::It's one of the things that caught the wiki by surprise, I think. For the longest time, the fiction output by the club was negligible, and now they're consistently putting out a fair bit of it, and it's reasonably detailed. I personally plan on getting a club membership next month to start to help out on that, but this month my money's fairly well tied up.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:51, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::If only I could do that. Unfortunately, club membership is rather hard to get where I am. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I have some duplicates of some back issues of the club magazine. If they went to a good cause, like reviewing on the wiki, I'd donate them. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 17:29, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::Yeah, it was a combo of, I've whittled the list by now down to those things that need a ''lot'' of write-up, and as much as I need the money, my temp job's kept me busy and stressed lately on top of it. I originally took it on as a pet project because nobody was really touching the SG stuff, so it seemed like something I could have fun picking away at without stepping on anyone's toes. But now that, as you say, the fiction's gotten more involved... --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:53, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Picture needs request==<br />
I recently donated some pictures of Jazz's head to the tfwiki as requested on the Allspark. I have a good camera now (need some lighting) and a sizeable colleciton of toys, some VERY obscure. Is there a list of pictures that need to be taken? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:48, 23 November 2009 (EST)</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Primal_Rage&diff=394751User talk:Primal Rage2009-11-24T00:51:43Z<p>Primal Rage: /* Current members talk */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Past talk==<br />
Eire and Detour's reasoning is sound. The stub template encourages people to contribute to the article which lacks information. By providing a, let's face it, rather short and cursory passage that basically says "The good guys arrive somewhere. Stuff happens and they fight the bad guys. They win, and leave", people are less likely to take the time to complete the article, because people are less inclined to completely rewrite somebody else's work, no matter how little information it conveys. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:51, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
No long description exists that I can find, nor even a translation into english. If you have some english translation I will provide a longer description. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 15:10, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:In that case you *PROBABLY* pad out the synopsis with more detailed descriptions of things happening so you can get at least a few paragraphs, but leave the stub tags around, and perhaps even a <nowiki>((cleanup|date|insert description here}}</nowiki> saying this synopsis was done without the benefit of translated text. Or doing this may offend our staff and regular users, heh. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:55, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I never removed the stub notice in the first place, I just added a couple sentences of overview, and it got delted. Yet somehow the people deleting it failed to offer anything better. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 22:17, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:(re: claims on FFN's talk page) You ''did'' remove the stub notice, mignash. Check your edit history. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:31, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::(You're supposed to keep all talk page replies on the one page so the conversation can be followed on a single page, as opposed to multiple pages on multiple windows/tabs.) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::Thanks! I hadn't seen that left it in this time. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 12:28, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Please, stop your edit war on [[Rook (SG)]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:44, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:I agree. Please remove political commentaries. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::Okay, since you seem to be missing the point let me say that if you remove that one more time without getting some other users to support you, I am giving you a time-out. Right now, the majority seem to be in favor of the caption.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::It seems' It's Walky blocked me ANYWAYS, even if I didn't change it again. His reason for blocking seems to be because I'm me. What's up with that? [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:26, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You know, I searched for a Transformers wiki years ago, ultimately leading to the creation of this place, because some dude named "mignash" was such a pain on Wikipedia. Such a pain. He was so big of a pain that he was even banned from there for a time! So no, you're not allowed. Neither you nor your fun political insanities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::THANK YOU. I do not want edit-wars all over Shattered Glass. <br />
:::::(Believe it or not, now I feel embarrassed about supporting his bid to include a mention of the Seekers on the Wikipedia article on the F-15 Eagle.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:36, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::What political insanities? Because I added a comment on Obama, which isn't even that bad? Rosicrucian asked me not to revert the page any more and I did as asked. so it seems you are into banning people you don't like? --[[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:41, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::No, that's just how I knew it was you, rather than some other harmless anom merely obsessed with Shattered Glass. So you're going, exactly because you're you, because you're not allowed here. '''TFwiki.net exists to avoid Matthew Ignash'''. That's specifically why the original Wikia site was sought by me, so we could have a Transformers Wiki safe from your edit wars. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::I wasn't aware you created and owned the site. Sorry to intrude on your private property. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:49, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Current members talk==<br />
While Walky could have perhaps put it more tactfully, he's certainly hit upon something that is a critical difference between the Wikipedia dynamic and the atmosphere here. At Wikipedia, there is continual dynamic tension between the policy wonks and those that are passionate about the subject matter. In fact at Wikipedia it's not uncommon to have someone who is ''entirely uninterested'' in the subject matter of an article, and just enforcing policy. Sometimes the policy wonks win, and an article gets locked down in the "correct" form. Sometimes they give up, allowing an editor to set up what amounts to a little fiefdom in a collection of articles. Here, though? Well, for one the default assumption is that we're ''all'' passionate about the subject matter, even if we take it with varying degrees of seriousness. We're here, right? Second, we're much looser policy-wise. Most of our policy documents have evolved within the past year or two, and are mainly just setting down in text things that we've agreed on in the past. It's much more "D&D house rules" than "Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?" As a result we'll almost ''never'' sanitize an article to fit one user's complaints, unless they can justify that it's getting in the way of the information the article is supposed to present.<br />
<br />
I tend to think the two approaches are night and day, and you're not the first user to run afoul of the general community atmosphere by trying to edit here the same way he does at Wikipedia. I don't know if I agree with Walky blocking you permanently, but he ''is'' the guy who helped facilitate the move off of Wikia, onto his own hosting no less, and even though we've moved hosting since then he's still been instrumental in keeping things running, including picking up the slack when the advertising doesn't cover our hosting bills. He has done some of the "heavy lifting," so to speak and for the most part he's a reasonable guy. In this case, he's ''exactly right'' that you're exhibiting some behaviors that don't really work with how this wiki has operated. Maybe he didn't explain that in a way that's satisfying to you, but I can honestly say that if you had continued your pattern of edits I would have blocked you myself, if not for Rook then for something else. If you're ever to be ''un''blocked, these are behaviors that would need to be fixed. Some people get the benefit of the doubt because of how much time and sweat they've invested in the place. You haven't earned that yet.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 11:56, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:Agreed, I have not earned it yet. That's why I made my proposal. I cann't earn the respect if I cannot post, so I am offering my "pledge" and ask for the ability to earn the respect. As I proposed, i will not edit voluntarely for ONE WEEK. I will then attempt to only make edits within my pledge, and with (hopefully) the blessing of the majority of the users here in an appropriate fashion that will help the wiki. I want you to give me feedback on this, so I don't ruffle ANY feathers. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 12:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::... You also can't earn respect by signing up under an alt ID after being banned. That is also against the rules. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You can't show anything if you can't even type, and I was only under an IP, not I have a proper user name. So I made this page to make a proposal, and I'm NOT editing the wiki until things are good with most of the editors. I'm hoping to get some feedback and direction. Walky, would it be a such a horrible thing if I worked in the proper manner to articles that needed the work? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Yes. Yes it would. Please go away now. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:39, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I usually avoid politics round here like the plague, but you do seem to be making this personal, ItsWalky. Why not give him a chance. Worst comes to worst, he proves you right and goes far far away [[User:Eire]] 23.01 Nov 23 09 (UTC)<br />
:::::::Yeah, this. Ban someone because they've broken the rules of the site, yes obviously, and at this point I might well support the ban on those grounds just because he's done that multiple times by now.<br />
:::::::But banning someone due to a personal grudge? I'm sorry, but, we all have people in the TF fandom we don't like (and I know I'm probably on a few people's lists), but that doesn't mean anyone should be abusing their power to act like children who don't want to share the playground if the people in question ''do'' obey the rules.<br />
:::::::I've spent a lot of time trying to defend this place as being one where good editing is what's important rather than being in (or out of) the admins' private clique, and I'd rather not be made to look like a fool. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::If I got rid of people solely because I didn't get along with them, then I don't think you'd be here, Jeysie. But Mignash is wiki poison. WIKI POISON. This wiki EXISTS because I wanted a Transformers wiki outside of his poisonous influence. So, sorry. Mignash can go edit at Wikia. He doesn't have to go home, but he can't stay here. <br />
::::::::(Also also, I am not getting into a circular argument with Jeysie over Matthew friggin' Ignash, so make what condescending remarks you want about me and I'll just pretend I never saw them.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:15, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::::Feeling's more than mutual, trust me.<br />
:::::::::But like I said, you weren't saying you banned Mignash because he broke the rules, which would have been fine with me, but because you have some personal vendetta with him. I '''support''' the ban for the former reason (so this isn't me trying to argue about him being unbanned), but wanted to express that I have a major problem with any admin trying to pull the latter reason. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:30, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::::Seriously, you support a full lifetime BAN from a site for a couple of arguements over posts that were already settled? All I can say is, don't get on Walky's bad side any more. <br />
:::::::It seems odd that when Rosicrucian asked me to stop an edit, I did as he asked, and moved it to a talk page. The Walky, who never contacted me privately, then banned is ISP for life, then banned my user account for life and made it very clear it's because he doesn't like me from knowing me on other boards. Dude, we are both TF collectors. We are probably more alike than different. Let's keep it friendly. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 18:10, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
::I do think that's a good way to start. Doing meat and potatoes editing and filling out articles is a good thing, and your interest in Shattered Glass could be a good thing as you could collaborate with Jeysie in getting the character articles filled out with the missing fiction. Try not to stress the captions so much, as like everything they're secondary to the content itself.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:20, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::I'd appreciate Primal Rage's help. The list of Shattered Glass stubs is way too long, and there needs to be more editors working on it. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::Blackout, why don't you pick a character or two for me to start researching on, and in a week, if there isn't a problem with me posting, I'll try to update them? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:33, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::It's one of the things that caught the wiki by surprise, I think. For the longest time, the fiction output by the club was negligible, and now they're consistently putting out a fair bit of it, and it's reasonably detailed. I personally plan on getting a club membership next month to start to help out on that, but this month my money's fairly well tied up.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:51, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::If only I could do that. Unfortunately, club membership is rather hard to get where I am. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I have some duplicates of some back issues of the club magazine. If they went to a good cause, like reviewing on the wiki, I'd donate them. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 17:29, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
:::::Yeah, it was a combo of, I've whittled the list by now down to those things that need a ''lot'' of write-up, and as much as I need the money, my temp job's kept me busy and stressed lately on top of it. I originally took it on as a pet project because nobody was really touching the SG stuff, so it seemed like something I could have fun picking away at without stepping on anyone's toes. But now that, as you say, the fiction's gotten more involved... --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:53, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Picture needs request==<br />
I recently donated some pictures of Jazz's head to the tfwiki as requested on the Allspark. I have a good camera now (need some lighting) and a sizeable colleciton of toys, some VERY obscure. Is there a list of pictures that need to be taken? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:48, 23 November 2009 (EST)</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Primal_Rage&diff=394716User talk:Primal Rage2009-11-23T23:13:03Z<p>Primal Rage: /* Current members talk */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Past talk==<br />
Eire and Detour's reasoning is sound. The stub template encourages people to contribute to the article which lacks information. By providing a, let's face it, rather short and cursory passage that basically says "The good guys arrive somewhere. Stuff happens and they fight the bad guys. They win, and leave", people are less likely to take the time to complete the article, because people are less inclined to completely rewrite somebody else's work, no matter how little information it conveys. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:51, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
No long description exists that I can find, nor even a translation into english. If you have some english translation I will provide a longer description. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 15:10, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:In that case you *PROBABLY* pad out the synopsis with more detailed descriptions of things happening so you can get at least a few paragraphs, but leave the stub tags around, and perhaps even a <nowiki>((cleanup|date|insert description here}}</nowiki> saying this synopsis was done without the benefit of translated text. Or doing this may offend our staff and regular users, heh. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:55, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I never removed the stub notice in the first place, I just added a couple sentences of overview, and it got delted. Yet somehow the people deleting it failed to offer anything better. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 22:17, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:(re: claims on FFN's talk page) You ''did'' remove the stub notice, mignash. Check your edit history. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:31, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::(You're supposed to keep all talk page replies on the one page so the conversation can be followed on a single page, as opposed to multiple pages on multiple windows/tabs.) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::Thanks! I hadn't seen that left it in this time. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 12:28, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Please, stop your edit war on [[Rook (SG)]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:44, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:I agree. Please remove political commentaries. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::Okay, since you seem to be missing the point let me say that if you remove that one more time without getting some other users to support you, I am giving you a time-out. Right now, the majority seem to be in favor of the caption.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::It seems' It's Walky blocked me ANYWAYS, even if I didn't change it again. His reason for blocking seems to be because I'm me. What's up with that? [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:26, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You know, I searched for a Transformers wiki years ago, ultimately leading to the creation of this place, because some dude named "mignash" was such a pain on Wikipedia. Such a pain. He was so big of a pain that he was even banned from there for a time! So no, you're not allowed. Neither you nor your fun political insanities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::THANK YOU. I do not want edit-wars all over Shattered Glass. <br />
:::::(Believe it or not, now I feel embarrassed about supporting his bid to include a mention of the Seekers on the Wikipedia article on the F-15 Eagle.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:36, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::What political insanities? Because I added a comment on Obama, which isn't even that bad? Rosicrucian asked me not to revert the page any more and I did as asked. so it seems you are into banning people you don't like? --[[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:41, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::No, that's just how I knew it was you, rather than some other harmless anom merely obsessed with Shattered Glass. So you're going, exactly because you're you, because you're not allowed here. '''TFwiki.net exists to avoid Matthew Ignash'''. That's specifically why the original Wikia site was sought by me, so we could have a Transformers Wiki safe from your edit wars. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::I wasn't aware you created and owned the site. Sorry to intrude on your private property. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:49, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Current members talk==<br />
While Walky could have perhaps put it more tactfully, he's certainly hit upon something that is a critical difference between the Wikipedia dynamic and the atmosphere here. At Wikipedia, there is continual dynamic tension between the policy wonks and those that are passionate about the subject matter. In fact at Wikipedia it's not uncommon to have someone who is ''entirely uninterested'' in the subject matter of an article, and just enforcing policy. Sometimes the policy wonks win, and an article gets locked down in the "correct" form. Sometimes they give up, allowing an editor to set up what amounts to a little fiefdom in a collection of articles. Here, though? Well, for one the default assumption is that we're ''all'' passionate about the subject matter, even if we take it with varying degrees of seriousness. We're here, right? Second, we're much looser policy-wise. Most of our policy documents have evolved within the past year or two, and are mainly just setting down in text things that we've agreed on in the past. It's much more "D&D house rules" than "Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?" As a result we'll almost ''never'' sanitize an article to fit one user's complaints, unless they can justify that it's getting in the way of the information the article is supposed to present.<br />
<br />
I tend to think the two approaches are night and day, and you're not the first user to run afoul of the general community atmosphere by trying to edit here the same way he does at Wikipedia. I don't know if I agree with Walky blocking you permanently, but he ''is'' the guy who helped facilitate the move off of Wikia, onto his own hosting no less, and even though we've moved hosting since then he's still been instrumental in keeping things running, including picking up the slack when the advertising doesn't cover our hosting bills. He has done some of the "heavy lifting," so to speak and for the most part he's a reasonable guy. In this case, he's ''exactly right'' that you're exhibiting some behaviors that don't really work with how this wiki has operated. Maybe he didn't explain that in a way that's satisfying to you, but I can honestly say that if you had continued your pattern of edits I would have blocked you myself, if not for Rook then for something else. If you're ever to be ''un''blocked, these are behaviors that would need to be fixed. Some people get the benefit of the doubt because of how much time and sweat they've invested in the place. You haven't earned that yet.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 11:56, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:Agreed, I have not earned it yet. That's why I made my proposal. I cann't earn the respect if I cannot post, so I am offering my "pledge" and ask for the ability to earn the respect. As I proposed, i will not edit voluntarely for ONE WEEK. I will then attempt to only make edits within my pledge, and with (hopefully) the blessing of the majority of the users here in an appropriate fashion that will help the wiki. I want you to give me feedback on this, so I don't ruffle ANY feathers. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 12:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::... You also can't earn respect by signing up under an alt ID after being banned. That is also against the rules. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You can't show anything if you can't even type, and I was only under an IP, not I have a proper user name. So I made this page to make a proposal, and I'm NOT editing the wiki until things are good with most of the editors. I'm hoping to get some feedback and direction. Walky, would it be a such a horrible thing if I worked in the proper manner to articles that needed the work? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Yes. Yes it would. Please go away now. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:39, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I usually avoid politics round here like the plague, but you do seem to be making this personal, ItsWalky. Why not give him a chance. Worst comes to worst, he proves you right and goes far far away [[User:Eire]] 23.01 Nov 23 09 (UTC)<br />
:::::::It seems odd that when Rosicrucian asked me to stop an edit, I did as he asked, and moved it to a talk page. The Walky, who never contacted me privately, then banned is ISP for life, then banned my user account for life and made it very clear it's because he doesn't like me from knowing me on other boards. Dude, we are both TF collectors. We are probably more alike than different. Let's keep it friendly. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 18:10, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
::I do think that's a good way to start. Doing meat and potatoes editing and filling out articles is a good thing, and your interest in Shattered Glass could be a good thing as you could collaborate with Jeysie in getting the character articles filled out with the missing fiction. Try not to stress the captions so much, as like everything they're secondary to the content itself.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:20, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::I'd appreciate Primal Rage's help. The list of Shattered Glass stubs is way too long, and there needs to be more editors working on it. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::Blackout, why don't you pick a character or two for me to start researching on, and in a week, if there isn't a problem with me posting, I'll try to update them? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:33, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::It's one of the things that caught the wiki by surprise, I think. For the longest time, the fiction output by the club was negligible, and now they're consistently putting out a fair bit of it, and it's reasonably detailed. I personally plan on getting a club membership next month to start to help out on that, but this month my money's fairly well tied up.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:51, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::If only I could do that. Unfortunately, club membership is rather hard to get where I am. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I have some duplicates of some back issues of the club magazine. If they went to a good cause, like reviewing on the wiki, I'd donate them. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 17:29, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Picture needs request==<br />
I recently donated some pictures of Jazz's head to the tfwiki as requested on the Allspark. I have a good camera now (need some lighting) and a sizeable colleciton of toys, some VERY obscure. Is there a list of pictures that need to be taken? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:48, 23 November 2009 (EST)</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Primal_Rage&diff=394715User talk:Primal Rage2009-11-23T23:10:08Z<p>Primal Rage: </p>
<hr />
<div>==Past talk==<br />
Eire and Detour's reasoning is sound. The stub template encourages people to contribute to the article which lacks information. By providing a, let's face it, rather short and cursory passage that basically says "The good guys arrive somewhere. Stuff happens and they fight the bad guys. They win, and leave", people are less likely to take the time to complete the article, because people are less inclined to completely rewrite somebody else's work, no matter how little information it conveys. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:51, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
No long description exists that I can find, nor even a translation into english. If you have some english translation I will provide a longer description. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 15:10, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:In that case you *PROBABLY* pad out the synopsis with more detailed descriptions of things happening so you can get at least a few paragraphs, but leave the stub tags around, and perhaps even a <nowiki>((cleanup|date|insert description here}}</nowiki> saying this synopsis was done without the benefit of translated text. Or doing this may offend our staff and regular users, heh. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:55, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I never removed the stub notice in the first place, I just added a couple sentences of overview, and it got delted. Yet somehow the people deleting it failed to offer anything better. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 22:17, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:(re: claims on FFN's talk page) You ''did'' remove the stub notice, mignash. Check your edit history. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:31, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::(You're supposed to keep all talk page replies on the one page so the conversation can be followed on a single page, as opposed to multiple pages on multiple windows/tabs.) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::Thanks! I hadn't seen that left it in this time. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 12:28, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Please, stop your edit war on [[Rook (SG)]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:44, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:I agree. Please remove political commentaries. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::Okay, since you seem to be missing the point let me say that if you remove that one more time without getting some other users to support you, I am giving you a time-out. Right now, the majority seem to be in favor of the caption.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::It seems' It's Walky blocked me ANYWAYS, even if I didn't change it again. His reason for blocking seems to be because I'm me. What's up with that? [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:26, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You know, I searched for a Transformers wiki years ago, ultimately leading to the creation of this place, because some dude named "mignash" was such a pain on Wikipedia. Such a pain. He was so big of a pain that he was even banned from there for a time! So no, you're not allowed. Neither you nor your fun political insanities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::THANK YOU. I do not want edit-wars all over Shattered Glass. <br />
:::::(Believe it or not, now I feel embarrassed about supporting his bid to include a mention of the Seekers on the Wikipedia article on the F-15 Eagle.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:36, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::What political insanities? Because I added a comment on Obama, which isn't even that bad? Rosicrucian asked me not to revert the page any more and I did as asked. so it seems you are into banning people you don't like? --[[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:41, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::No, that's just how I knew it was you, rather than some other harmless anom merely obsessed with Shattered Glass. So you're going, exactly because you're you, because you're not allowed here. '''TFwiki.net exists to avoid Matthew Ignash'''. That's specifically why the original Wikia site was sought by me, so we could have a Transformers Wiki safe from your edit wars. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::I wasn't aware you created and owned the site. Sorry to intrude on your private property. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:49, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Current members talk==<br />
While Walky could have perhaps put it more tactfully, he's certainly hit upon something that is a critical difference between the Wikipedia dynamic and the atmosphere here. At Wikipedia, there is continual dynamic tension between the policy wonks and those that are passionate about the subject matter. In fact at Wikipedia it's not uncommon to have someone who is ''entirely uninterested'' in the subject matter of an article, and just enforcing policy. Sometimes the policy wonks win, and an article gets locked down in the "correct" form. Sometimes they give up, allowing an editor to set up what amounts to a little fiefdom in a collection of articles. Here, though? Well, for one the default assumption is that we're ''all'' passionate about the subject matter, even if we take it with varying degrees of seriousness. We're here, right? Second, we're much looser policy-wise. Most of our policy documents have evolved within the past year or two, and are mainly just setting down in text things that we've agreed on in the past. It's much more "D&D house rules" than "Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?" As a result we'll almost ''never'' sanitize an article to fit one user's complaints, unless they can justify that it's getting in the way of the information the article is supposed to present.<br />
<br />
I tend to think the two approaches are night and day, and you're not the first user to run afoul of the general community atmosphere by trying to edit here the same way he does at Wikipedia. I don't know if I agree with Walky blocking you permanently, but he ''is'' the guy who helped facilitate the move off of Wikia, onto his own hosting no less, and even though we've moved hosting since then he's still been instrumental in keeping things running, including picking up the slack when the advertising doesn't cover our hosting bills. He has done some of the "heavy lifting," so to speak and for the most part he's a reasonable guy. In this case, he's ''exactly right'' that you're exhibiting some behaviors that don't really work with how this wiki has operated. Maybe he didn't explain that in a way that's satisfying to you, but I can honestly say that if you had continued your pattern of edits I would have blocked you myself, if not for Rook then for something else. If you're ever to be ''un''blocked, these are behaviors that would need to be fixed. Some people get the benefit of the doubt because of how much time and sweat they've invested in the place. You haven't earned that yet.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 11:56, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:Agreed, I have not earned it yet. That's why I made my proposal. I cann't earn the respect if I cannot post, so I am offering my "pledge" and ask for the ability to earn the respect. As I proposed, i will not edit voluntarely for ONE WEEK. I will then attempt to only make edits within my pledge, and with (hopefully) the blessing of the majority of the users here in an appropriate fashion that will help the wiki. I want you to give me feedback on this, so I don't ruffle ANY feathers. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 12:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::... You also can't earn respect by signing up under an alt ID after being banned. That is also against the rules. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You can't show anything if you can't even type, and I was only under an IP, not I have a proper user name. So I made this page to make a proposal, and I'm NOT editing the wiki until things are good with most of the editors. I'm hoping to get some feedback and direction. Walky, would it be a such a horrible thing if I worked in the proper manner to articles that needed the work? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Yes. Yes it would. Please go away now. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:39, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I usually avoid politics round here like the plague, but you do seem to be making this personal, ItsWalky. Why not give him a chance. Worst comes to worst, he proves you right and goes far far away [[User:Eire]] 23.01 Nov 23 09 (UTC)<br />
:::::::It seems odd that when Rosicrucian asked me to stop an edit, I as he asked, and moved it to a talk page. The Walky, who never contacted me privately, then banned is ISP for life, then banned my user account for life and made it very clear it's because he doesn't like me. Dude, we are both TF collectors. We are probably more alike than different. Let's keep it friendly. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 18:10, 23 November 2009 (EST) <br />
::I do think that's a good way to start. Doing meat and potatoes editing and filling out articles is a good thing, and your interest in Shattered Glass could be a good thing as you could collaborate with Jeysie in getting the character articles filled out with the missing fiction. Try not to stress the captions so much, as like everything they're secondary to the content itself.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:20, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::I'd appreciate Primal Rage's help. The list of Shattered Glass stubs is way too long, and there needs to be more editors working on it. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::Blackout, why don't you pick a character or two for me to start researching on, and in a week, if there isn't a problem with me posting, I'll try to update them? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:33, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::It's one of the things that caught the wiki by surprise, I think. For the longest time, the fiction output by the club was negligible, and now they're consistently putting out a fair bit of it, and it's reasonably detailed. I personally plan on getting a club membership next month to start to help out on that, but this month my money's fairly well tied up.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:51, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::If only I could do that. Unfortunately, club membership is rather hard to get where I am. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I have some duplicates of some back issues of the club magazine. If they went to a good cause, like reviewing on the wiki, I'd donate them. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 17:29, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Picture needs request==<br />
I recently donated some pictures of Jazz's head to the tfwiki as requested on the Allspark. I have a good camera now (need some lighting) and a sizeable colleciton of toys, some VERY obscure. Is there a list of pictures that need to be taken? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:48, 23 November 2009 (EST)</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Primal_Rage&diff=394710User talk:Primal Rage2009-11-23T22:29:28Z<p>Primal Rage: </p>
<hr />
<div>==Past talk==<br />
Eire and Detour's reasoning is sound. The stub template encourages people to contribute to the article which lacks information. By providing a, let's face it, rather short and cursory passage that basically says "The good guys arrive somewhere. Stuff happens and they fight the bad guys. They win, and leave", people are less likely to take the time to complete the article, because people are less inclined to completely rewrite somebody else's work, no matter how little information it conveys. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:51, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
No long description exists that I can find, nor even a translation into english. If you have some english translation I will provide a longer description. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 15:10, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:In that case you *PROBABLY* pad out the synopsis with more detailed descriptions of things happening so you can get at least a few paragraphs, but leave the stub tags around, and perhaps even a <nowiki>((cleanup|date|insert description here}}</nowiki> saying this synopsis was done without the benefit of translated text. Or doing this may offend our staff and regular users, heh. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:55, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I never removed the stub notice in the first place, I just added a couple sentences of overview, and it got delted. Yet somehow the people deleting it failed to offer anything better. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 22:17, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:(re: claims on FFN's talk page) You ''did'' remove the stub notice, mignash. Check your edit history. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:31, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::(You're supposed to keep all talk page replies on the one page so the conversation can be followed on a single page, as opposed to multiple pages on multiple windows/tabs.) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::Thanks! I hadn't seen that left it in this time. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 12:28, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Please, stop your edit war on [[Rook (SG)]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:44, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:I agree. Please remove political commentaries. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::Okay, since you seem to be missing the point let me say that if you remove that one more time without getting some other users to support you, I am giving you a time-out. Right now, the majority seem to be in favor of the caption.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::It seems' It's Walky blocked me ANYWAYS, even if I didn't change it again. His reason for blocking seems to be because I'm me. What's up with that? [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:26, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You know, I searched for a Transformers wiki years ago, ultimately leading to the creation of this place, because some dude named "mignash" was such a pain on Wikipedia. Such a pain. He was so big of a pain that he was even banned from there for a time! So no, you're not allowed. Neither you nor your fun political insanities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::THANK YOU. I do not want edit-wars all over Shattered Glass. <br />
:::::(Believe it or not, now I feel embarrassed about supporting his bid to include a mention of the Seekers on the Wikipedia article on the F-15 Eagle.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:36, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::What political insanities? Because I added a comment on Obama, which isn't even that bad? Rosicrucian asked me not to revert the page any more and I did as asked. so it seems you are into banning people you don't like? --[[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:41, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::No, that's just how I knew it was you, rather than some other harmless anom merely obsessed with Shattered Glass. So you're going, exactly because you're you, because you're not allowed here. '''TFwiki.net exists to avoid Matthew Ignash'''. That's specifically why the original Wikia site was sought by me, so we could have a Transformers Wiki safe from your edit wars. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::I wasn't aware you created and owned the site. Sorry to intrude on your private property. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:49, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Current members talk==<br />
While Walky could have perhaps put it more tactfully, he's certainly hit upon something that is a critical difference between the Wikipedia dynamic and the atmosphere here. At Wikipedia, there is continual dynamic tension between the policy wonks and those that are passionate about the subject matter. In fact at Wikipedia it's not uncommon to have someone who is ''entirely uninterested'' in the subject matter of an article, and just enforcing policy. Sometimes the policy wonks win, and an article gets locked down in the "correct" form. Sometimes they give up, allowing an editor to set up what amounts to a little fiefdom in a collection of articles. Here, though? Well, for one the default assumption is that we're ''all'' passionate about the subject matter, even if we take it with varying degrees of seriousness. We're here, right? Second, we're much looser policy-wise. Most of our policy documents have evolved within the past year or two, and are mainly just setting down in text things that we've agreed on in the past. It's much more "D&D house rules" than "Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?" As a result we'll almost ''never'' sanitize an article to fit one user's complaints, unless they can justify that it's getting in the way of the information the article is supposed to present.<br />
<br />
I tend to think the two approaches are night and day, and you're not the first user to run afoul of the general community atmosphere by trying to edit here the same way he does at Wikipedia. I don't know if I agree with Walky blocking you permanently, but he ''is'' the guy who helped facilitate the move off of Wikia, onto his own hosting no less, and even though we've moved hosting since then he's still been instrumental in keeping things running, including picking up the slack when the advertising doesn't cover our hosting bills. He has done some of the "heavy lifting," so to speak and for the most part he's a reasonable guy. In this case, he's ''exactly right'' that you're exhibiting some behaviors that don't really work with how this wiki has operated. Maybe he didn't explain that in a way that's satisfying to you, but I can honestly say that if you had continued your pattern of edits I would have blocked you myself, if not for Rook then for something else. If you're ever to be ''un''blocked, these are behaviors that would need to be fixed. Some people get the benefit of the doubt because of how much time and sweat they've invested in the place. You haven't earned that yet.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 11:56, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:Agreed, I have not earned it yet. That's why I made my proposal. I cann't earn the respect if I cannot post, so I am offering my "pledge" and ask for the ability to earn the respect. As I proposed, i will not edit voluntarely for ONE WEEK. I will then attempt to only make edits within my pledge, and with (hopefully) the blessing of the majority of the users here in an appropriate fashion that will help the wiki. I want you to give me feedback on this, so I don't ruffle ANY feathers. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 12:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::... You also can't earn respect by signing up under an alt ID after being banned. That is also against the rules. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You can't show anything if you can't even type, and I was only under an IP, not I have a proper user name. So I made this page to make a proposal, and I'm NOT editing the wiki until things are good with most of the editors. I'm hoping to get some feedback and direction. Walky, would it be a such a horrible thing if I worked in the proper manner to articles that needed the work? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Yes. Yes it would. Please go away now. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:39, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::I do think that's a good way to start. Doing meat and potatoes editing and filling out articles is a good thing, and your interest in Shattered Glass could be a good thing as you could collaborate with Jeysie in getting the character articles filled out with the missing fiction. Try not to stress the captions so much, as like everything they're secondary to the content itself.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:20, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::I'd appreciate Primal Rage's help. The list of Shattered Glass stubs is way too long, and there needs to be more editors working on it. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::Blackout, why don't you pick a character or two for me to start researching on, and in a week, if there isn't a problem with me posting, I'll try to update them? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:33, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::It's one of the things that caught the wiki by surprise, I think. For the longest time, the fiction output by the club was negligible, and now they're consistently putting out a fair bit of it, and it's reasonably detailed. I personally plan on getting a club membership next month to start to help out on that, but this month my money's fairly well tied up.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:51, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::If only I could do that. Unfortunately, club membership is rather hard to get where I am. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::I have some duplicates of some back issues of the club magazine. If they went to a good cause, like reviewing on the wiki, I'd donate them. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 17:29, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Picture needs request==<br />
I recently donated some pictures of Jazz's head to the tfwiki as requested on the Allspark. I have a good camera now (need some lighting) and a sizeable colleciton of toys, some VERY obscure. Is there a list of pictures that need to be taken? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:48, 23 November 2009 (EST)</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Primal_Rage&diff=394693User talk:Primal Rage2009-11-23T21:49:55Z<p>Primal Rage: </p>
<hr />
<div>==Past talk==<br />
Eire and Detour's reasoning is sound. The stub template encourages people to contribute to the article which lacks information. By providing a, let's face it, rather short and cursory passage that basically says "The good guys arrive somewhere. Stuff happens and they fight the bad guys. They win, and leave", people are less likely to take the time to complete the article, because people are less inclined to completely rewrite somebody else's work, no matter how little information it conveys. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:51, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
No long description exists that I can find, nor even a translation into english. If you have some english translation I will provide a longer description. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 15:10, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:In that case you *PROBABLY* pad out the synopsis with more detailed descriptions of things happening so you can get at least a few paragraphs, but leave the stub tags around, and perhaps even a <nowiki>((cleanup|date|insert description here}}</nowiki> saying this synopsis was done without the benefit of translated text. Or doing this may offend our staff and regular users, heh. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:55, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I never removed the stub notice in the first place, I just added a couple sentences of overview, and it got delted. Yet somehow the people deleting it failed to offer anything better. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 22:17, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:(re: claims on FFN's talk page) You ''did'' remove the stub notice, mignash. Check your edit history. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:31, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::(You're supposed to keep all talk page replies on the one page so the conversation can be followed on a single page, as opposed to multiple pages on multiple windows/tabs.) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::Thanks! I hadn't seen that left it in this time. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 12:28, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Please, stop your edit war on [[Rook (SG)]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:44, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:I agree. Please remove political commentaries. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::Okay, since you seem to be missing the point let me say that if you remove that one more time without getting some other users to support you, I am giving you a time-out. Right now, the majority seem to be in favor of the caption.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::It seems' It's Walky blocked me ANYWAYS, even if I didn't change it again. His reason for blocking seems to be because I'm me. What's up with that? [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:26, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You know, I searched for a Transformers wiki years ago, ultimately leading to the creation of this place, because some dude named "mignash" was such a pain on Wikipedia. Such a pain. He was so big of a pain that he was even banned from there for a time! So no, you're not allowed. Neither you nor your fun political insanities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::THANK YOU. I do not want edit-wars all over Shattered Glass. <br />
:::::(Believe it or not, now I feel embarrassed about supporting his bid to include a mention of the Seekers on the Wikipedia article on the F-15 Eagle.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:36, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::What political insanities? Because I added a comment on Obama, which isn't even that bad? Rosicrucian asked me not to revert the page any more and I did as asked. so it seems you are into banning people you don't like? --[[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:41, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::No, that's just how I knew it was you, rather than some other harmless anom merely obsessed with Shattered Glass. So you're going, exactly because you're you, because you're not allowed here. '''TFwiki.net exists to avoid Matthew Ignash'''. That's specifically why the original Wikia site was sought by me, so we could have a Transformers Wiki safe from your edit wars. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::I wasn't aware you created and owned the site. Sorry to intrude on your private property. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:49, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Current members talk==<br />
While Walky could have perhaps put it more tactfully, he's certainly hit upon something that is a critical difference between the Wikipedia dynamic and the atmosphere here. At Wikipedia, there is continual dynamic tension between the policy wonks and those that are passionate about the subject matter. In fact at Wikipedia it's not uncommon to have someone who is ''entirely uninterested'' in the subject matter of an article, and just enforcing policy. Sometimes the policy wonks win, and an article gets locked down in the "correct" form. Sometimes they give up, allowing an editor to set up what amounts to a little fiefdom in a collection of articles. Here, though? Well, for one the default assumption is that we're ''all'' passionate about the subject matter, even if we take it with varying degrees of seriousness. We're here, right? Second, we're much looser policy-wise. Most of our policy documents have evolved within the past year or two, and are mainly just setting down in text things that we've agreed on in the past. It's much more "D&D house rules" than "Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?" As a result we'll almost ''never'' sanitize an article to fit one user's complaints, unless they can justify that it's getting in the way of the information the article is supposed to present.<br />
<br />
I tend to think the two approaches are night and day, and you're not the first user to run afoul of the general community atmosphere by trying to edit here the same way he does at Wikipedia. I don't know if I agree with Walky blocking you permanently, but he ''is'' the guy who helped facilitate the move off of Wikia, onto his own hosting no less, and even though we've moved hosting since then he's still been instrumental in keeping things running, including picking up the slack when the advertising doesn't cover our hosting bills. He has done some of the "heavy lifting," so to speak and for the most part he's a reasonable guy. In this case, he's ''exactly right'' that you're exhibiting some behaviors that don't really work with how this wiki has operated. Maybe he didn't explain that in a way that's satisfying to you, but I can honestly say that if you had continued your pattern of edits I would have blocked you myself, if not for Rook then for something else. If you're ever to be ''un''blocked, these are behaviors that would need to be fixed. Some people get the benefit of the doubt because of how much time and sweat they've invested in the place. You haven't earned that yet.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 11:56, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:Agreed, I have not earned it yet. That's why I made my proposal. I cann't earn the respect if I cannot post, so I am offering my "pledge" and ask for the ability to earn the respect. As I proposed, i will not edit voluntarely for ONE WEEK. I will then attempt to only make edits within my pledge, and with (hopefully) the blessing of the majority of the users here in an appropriate fashion that will help the wiki. I want you to give me feedback on this, so I don't ruffle ANY feathers. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 12:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::... You also can't earn respect by signing up under an alt ID after being banned. That is also against the rules. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You can't show anything if you can't even type, and I was only under an IP, not I have a proper user name. So I made this page to make a proposal, and I'm NOT editing the wiki until things are good with most of the editors. I'm hoping to get some feedback and direction. Walky, would it be a such a horrible thing if I worked in the proper manner to articles that needed the work? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Yes. Yes it would. Please go away now. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:39, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::I do think that's a good way to start. Doing meat and potatoes editing and filling out articles is a good thing, and your interest in Shattered Glass could be a good thing as you could collaborate with Jeysie in getting the character articles filled out with the missing fiction. Try not to stress the captions so much, as like everything they're secondary to the content itself.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:20, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::I'd appreciate Primal Rage's help. The list of Shattered Glass stubs is way too long, and there needs to be more editors working on it. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::Blackout, why don't you pick a character or two for me to start researching on, and in a week, if there isn't a problem with me posting, I'll try to update them? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:33, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::It's one of the things that caught the wiki by surprise, I think. For the longest time, the fiction output by the club was negligible, and now they're consistently putting out a fair bit of it, and it's reasonably detailed. I personally plan on getting a club membership next month to start to help out on that, but this month my money's fairly well tied up.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:51, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::If only I could do that. Unfortunately, club membership is rather hard to get where I am. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Picture needs request==<br />
I recently donated some pictures of Jazz's head to the tfwiki as requested on the Allspark. I have a good camera now (need some lighting) and a sizeable colleciton of toys, some VERY obscure. Is there a list of pictures that need to be taken? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:48, 23 November 2009 (EST)</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Primal_Rage&diff=394692User talk:Primal Rage2009-11-23T21:48:35Z<p>Primal Rage: </p>
<hr />
<div>Eire and Detour's reasoning is sound. The stub template encourages people to contribute to the article which lacks information. By providing a, let's face it, rather short and cursory passage that basically says "The good guys arrive somewhere. Stuff happens and they fight the bad guys. They win, and leave", people are less likely to take the time to complete the article, because people are less inclined to completely rewrite somebody else's work, no matter how little information it conveys. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:51, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
No long description exists that I can find, nor even a translation into english. If you have some english translation I will provide a longer description. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 15:10, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:In that case you *PROBABLY* pad out the synopsis with more detailed descriptions of things happening so you can get at least a few paragraphs, but leave the stub tags around, and perhaps even a <nowiki>((cleanup|date|insert description here}}</nowiki> saying this synopsis was done without the benefit of translated text. Or doing this may offend our staff and regular users, heh. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:55, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I never removed the stub notice in the first place, I just added a couple sentences of overview, and it got delted. Yet somehow the people deleting it failed to offer anything better. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 22:17, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:(re: claims on FFN's talk page) You ''did'' remove the stub notice, mignash. Check your edit history. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:31, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::(You're supposed to keep all talk page replies on the one page so the conversation can be followed on a single page, as opposed to multiple pages on multiple windows/tabs.) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::Thanks! I hadn't seen that left it in this time. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 12:28, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Please, stop your edit war on [[Rook (SG)]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:44, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:I agree. Please remove political commentaries. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::Okay, since you seem to be missing the point let me say that if you remove that one more time without getting some other users to support you, I am giving you a time-out. Right now, the majority seem to be in favor of the caption.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::It seems' It's Walky blocked me ANYWAYS, even if I didn't change it again. His reason for blocking seems to be because I'm me. What's up with that? [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:26, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You know, I searched for a Transformers wiki years ago, ultimately leading to the creation of this place, because some dude named "mignash" was such a pain on Wikipedia. Such a pain. He was so big of a pain that he was even banned from there for a time! So no, you're not allowed. Neither you nor your fun political insanities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::THANK YOU. I do not want edit-wars all over Shattered Glass. <br />
:::::(Believe it or not, now I feel embarrassed about supporting his bid to include a mention of the Seekers on the Wikipedia article on the F-15 Eagle.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:36, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::What political insanities? Because I added a comment on Obama, which isn't even that bad? Rosicrucian asked me not to revert the page any more and I did as asked. so it seems you are into banning people you don't like? --[[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:41, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::No, that's just how I knew it was you, rather than some other harmless anom merely obsessed with Shattered Glass. So you're going, exactly because you're you, because you're not allowed here. '''TFwiki.net exists to avoid Matthew Ignash'''. That's specifically why the original Wikia site was sought by me, so we could have a Transformers Wiki safe from your edit wars. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::I wasn't aware you created and owned the site. Sorry to intrude on your private property. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:49, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
While Walky could have perhaps put it more tactfully, he's certainly hit upon something that is a critical difference between the Wikipedia dynamic and the atmosphere here. At Wikipedia, there is continual dynamic tension between the policy wonks and those that are passionate about the subject matter. In fact at Wikipedia it's not uncommon to have someone who is ''entirely uninterested'' in the subject matter of an article, and just enforcing policy. Sometimes the policy wonks win, and an article gets locked down in the "correct" form. Sometimes they give up, allowing an editor to set up what amounts to a little fiefdom in a collection of articles. Here, though? Well, for one the default assumption is that we're ''all'' passionate about the subject matter, even if we take it with varying degrees of seriousness. We're here, right? Second, we're much looser policy-wise. Most of our policy documents have evolved within the past year or two, and are mainly just setting down in text things that we've agreed on in the past. It's much more "D&D house rules" than "Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?" As a result we'll almost ''never'' sanitize an article to fit one user's complaints, unless they can justify that it's getting in the way of the information the article is supposed to present.<br />
<br />
I tend to think the two approaches are night and day, and you're not the first user to run afoul of the general community atmosphere by trying to edit here the same way he does at Wikipedia. I don't know if I agree with Walky blocking you permanently, but he ''is'' the guy who helped facilitate the move off of Wikia, onto his own hosting no less, and even though we've moved hosting since then he's still been instrumental in keeping things running, including picking up the slack when the advertising doesn't cover our hosting bills. He has done some of the "heavy lifting," so to speak and for the most part he's a reasonable guy. In this case, he's ''exactly right'' that you're exhibiting some behaviors that don't really work with how this wiki has operated. Maybe he didn't explain that in a way that's satisfying to you, but I can honestly say that if you had continued your pattern of edits I would have blocked you myself, if not for Rook then for something else. If you're ever to be ''un''blocked, these are behaviors that would need to be fixed. Some people get the benefit of the doubt because of how much time and sweat they've invested in the place. You haven't earned that yet.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 11:56, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:Agreed, I have not earned it yet. That's why I made my proposal. I cann't earn the respect if I cannot post, so I am offering my "pledge" and ask for the ability to earn the respect. As I proposed, i will not edit voluntarely for ONE WEEK. I will then attempt to only make edits within my pledge, and with (hopefully) the blessing of the majority of the users here in an appropriate fashion that will help the wiki. I want you to give me feedback on this, so I don't ruffle ANY feathers. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 12:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::... You also can't earn respect by signing up under an alt ID after being banned. That is also against the rules. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You can't show anything if you can't even type, and I was only under an IP, not I have a proper user name. So I made this page to make a proposal, and I'm NOT editing the wiki until things are good with most of the editors. I'm hoping to get some feedback and direction. Walky, would it be a such a horrible thing if I worked in the proper manner to articles that needed the work? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::Yes. Yes it would. Please go away now. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:39, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::I do think that's a good way to start. Doing meat and potatoes editing and filling out articles is a good thing, and your interest in Shattered Glass could be a good thing as you could collaborate with Jeysie in getting the character articles filled out with the missing fiction. Try not to stress the captions so much, as like everything they're secondary to the content itself.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:20, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::I'd appreciate Primal Rage's help. The list of Shattered Glass stubs is way too long, and there needs to be more editors working on it. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::Blackout, why don't you pick a character or two for me to start researching on, and in a week, if there isn't a problem with me posting, I'll try to update them? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:33, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::It's one of the things that caught the wiki by surprise, I think. For the longest time, the fiction output by the club was negligible, and now they're consistently putting out a fair bit of it, and it's reasonably detailed. I personally plan on getting a club membership next month to start to help out on that, but this month my money's fairly well tied up.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:51, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::If only I could do that. Unfortunately, club membership is rather hard to get where I am. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Picture needs request==<br />
I recently donated some pictures of Jazz's head to the tfwiki as requested on the Allspark. I have a good camera now (need some lighting) and a sizeable colleciton of toys, some VERY obscure. Is there a list of pictures that need to be taken? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:48, 23 November 2009 (EST)</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Primal_Rage&diff=394688User talk:Primal Rage2009-11-23T21:35:09Z<p>Primal Rage: </p>
<hr />
<div>Eire and Detour's reasoning is sound. The stub template encourages people to contribute to the article which lacks information. By providing a, let's face it, rather short and cursory passage that basically says "The good guys arrive somewhere. Stuff happens and they fight the bad guys. They win, and leave", people are less likely to take the time to complete the article, because people are less inclined to completely rewrite somebody else's work, no matter how little information it conveys. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:51, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
No long description exists that I can find, nor even a translation into english. If you have some english translation I will provide a longer description. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 15:10, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:In that case you *PROBABLY* pad out the synopsis with more detailed descriptions of things happening so you can get at least a few paragraphs, but leave the stub tags around, and perhaps even a <nowiki>((cleanup|date|insert description here}}</nowiki> saying this synopsis was done without the benefit of translated text. Or doing this may offend our staff and regular users, heh. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:55, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I never removed the stub notice in the first place, I just added a couple sentences of overview, and it got delted. Yet somehow the people deleting it failed to offer anything better. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 22:17, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:(re: claims on FFN's talk page) You ''did'' remove the stub notice, mignash. Check your edit history. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:31, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::(You're supposed to keep all talk page replies on the one page so the conversation can be followed on a single page, as opposed to multiple pages on multiple windows/tabs.) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::Thanks! I hadn't seen that left it in this time. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 12:28, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Please, stop your edit war on [[Rook (SG)]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:44, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:I agree. Please remove political commentaries. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::Okay, since you seem to be missing the point let me say that if you remove that one more time without getting some other users to support you, I am giving you a time-out. Right now, the majority seem to be in favor of the caption.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::It seems' It's Walky blocked me ANYWAYS, even if I didn't change it again. His reason for blocking seems to be because I'm me. What's up with that? [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:26, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You know, I searched for a Transformers wiki years ago, ultimately leading to the creation of this place, because some dude named "mignash" was such a pain on Wikipedia. Such a pain. He was so big of a pain that he was even banned from there for a time! So no, you're not allowed. Neither you nor your fun political insanities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::THANK YOU. I do not want edit-wars all over Shattered Glass. <br />
:::::(Believe it or not, now I feel embarrassed about supporting his bid to include a mention of the Seekers on the Wikipedia article on the F-15 Eagle.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:36, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::What political insanities? Because I added a comment on Obama, which isn't even that bad? Rosicrucian asked me not to revert the page any more and I did as asked. so it seems you are into banning people you don't like? --[[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:41, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::No, that's just how I knew it was you, rather than some other harmless anom merely obsessed with Shattered Glass. So you're going, exactly because you're you, because you're not allowed here. '''TFwiki.net exists to avoid Matthew Ignash'''. That's specifically why the original Wikia site was sought by me, so we could have a Transformers Wiki safe from your edit wars. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::I wasn't aware you created and owned the site. Sorry to intrude on your private property. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:49, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
While Walky could have perhaps put it more tactfully, he's certainly hit upon something that is a critical difference between the Wikipedia dynamic and the atmosphere here. At Wikipedia, there is continual dynamic tension between the policy wonks and those that are passionate about the subject matter. In fact at Wikipedia it's not uncommon to have someone who is ''entirely uninterested'' in the subject matter of an article, and just enforcing policy. Sometimes the policy wonks win, and an article gets locked down in the "correct" form. Sometimes they give up, allowing an editor to set up what amounts to a little fiefdom in a collection of articles. Here, though? Well, for one the default assumption is that we're ''all'' passionate about the subject matter, even if we take it with varying degrees of seriousness. We're here, right? Second, we're much looser policy-wise. Most of our policy documents have evolved within the past year or two, and are mainly just setting down in text things that we've agreed on in the past. It's much more "D&D house rules" than "Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?" As a result we'll almost ''never'' sanitize an article to fit one user's complaints, unless they can justify that it's getting in the way of the information the article is supposed to present.<br />
<br />
I tend to think the two approaches are night and day, and you're not the first user to run afoul of the general community atmosphere by trying to edit here the same way he does at Wikipedia. I don't know if I agree with Walky blocking you permanently, but he ''is'' the guy who helped facilitate the move off of Wikia, onto his own hosting no less, and even though we've moved hosting since then he's still been instrumental in keeping things running, including picking up the slack when the advertising doesn't cover our hosting bills. He has done some of the "heavy lifting," so to speak and for the most part he's a reasonable guy. In this case, he's ''exactly right'' that you're exhibiting some behaviors that don't really work with how this wiki has operated. Maybe he didn't explain that in a way that's satisfying to you, but I can honestly say that if you had continued your pattern of edits I would have blocked you myself, if not for Rook then for something else. If you're ever to be ''un''blocked, these are behaviors that would need to be fixed. Some people get the benefit of the doubt because of how much time and sweat they've invested in the place. You haven't earned that yet.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 11:56, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:Agreed, I have not earned it yet. That's why I made my proposal. I cann't earn the respect if I cannot post, so I am offering my "pledge" and ask for the ability to earn the respect. As I proposed, i will not edit voluntarely for ONE WEEK. I will then attempt to only make edits within my pledge, and with (hopefully) the blessing of the majority of the users here in an appropriate fashion that will help the wiki. I want you to give me feedback on this, so I don't ruffle ANY feathers. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 12:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::... You also can't earn respect by signing up under an alt ID after being banned. That is also against the rules. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You can't show anything if you can't even type, and I was only under an IP, not I have a proper user name. So I made this page to make a proposal, and I'm NOT editing the wiki until things are good with most of the editors. I'm hoping to get some feedback and direction. Walky, would it be a such a horrible thing if I worked in the proper manner to articles that needed the work? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::I do think that's a good way to start. Doing meat and potatoes editing and filling out articles is a good thing, and your interest in Shattered Glass could be a good thing as you could collaborate with Jeysie in getting the character articles filled out with the missing fiction. Try not to stress the captions so much, as like everything they're secondary to the content itself.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:20, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::I'd appreciate Primal Rage's help. The list of Shattered Glass stubs is way too long, and there needs to be more editors working on it. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::Blackout, why don't you pick a character or two for me to start researching on, and in a week, if there isn't a problem with me posting, I'll try to update them? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:33, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::It's one of the things that caught the wiki by surprise, I think. For the longest time, the fiction output by the club was negligible, and now they're consistently putting out a fair bit of it, and it's reasonably detailed. I personally plan on getting a club membership next month to start to help out on that, but this month my money's fairly well tied up.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:51, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::If only I could do that. Unfortunately, club membership is rather hard to get where I am. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Primal_Rage&diff=394686User talk:Primal Rage2009-11-23T21:33:24Z<p>Primal Rage: </p>
<hr />
<div>Eire and Detour's reasoning is sound. The stub template encourages people to contribute to the article which lacks information. By providing a, let's face it, rather short and cursory passage that basically says "The good guys arrive somewhere. Stuff happens and they fight the bad guys. They win, and leave", people are less likely to take the time to complete the article, because people are less inclined to completely rewrite somebody else's work, no matter how little information it conveys. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:51, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
No long description exists that I can find, nor even a translation into english. If you have some english translation I will provide a longer description. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 15:10, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:In that case you *PROBABLY* pad out the synopsis with more detailed descriptions of things happening so you can get at least a few paragraphs, but leave the stub tags around, and perhaps even a <nowiki>((cleanup|date|insert description here}}</nowiki> saying this synopsis was done without the benefit of translated text. Or doing this may offend our staff and regular users, heh. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:55, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I never removed the stub notice in the first place, I just added a couple sentences of overview, and it got delted. Yet somehow the people deleting it failed to offer anything better. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 22:17, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:(re: claims on FFN's talk page) You ''did'' remove the stub notice, mignash. Check your edit history. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:31, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::(You're supposed to keep all talk page replies on the one page so the conversation can be followed on a single page, as opposed to multiple pages on multiple windows/tabs.) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::Thanks! I hadn't seen that left it in this time. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 12:28, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Please, stop your edit war on [[Rook (SG)]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:44, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:I agree. Please remove political commentaries. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::Okay, since you seem to be missing the point let me say that if you remove that one more time without getting some other users to support you, I am giving you a time-out. Right now, the majority seem to be in favor of the caption.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::It seems' It's Walky blocked me ANYWAYS, even if I didn't change it again. His reason for blocking seems to be because I'm me. What's up with that? [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:26, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You know, I searched for a Transformers wiki years ago, ultimately leading to the creation of this place, because some dude named "mignash" was such a pain on Wikipedia. Such a pain. He was so big of a pain that he was even banned from there for a time! So no, you're not allowed. Neither you nor your fun political insanities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::THANK YOU. I do not want edit-wars all over Shattered Glass. <br />
:::::(Believe it or not, now I feel embarrassed about supporting his bid to include a mention of the Seekers on the Wikipedia article on the F-15 Eagle.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:36, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::What political insanities? Because I added a comment on Obama, which isn't even that bad? Rosicrucian asked me not to revert the page any more and I did as asked. so it seems you are into banning people you don't like? --[[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:41, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::No, that's just how I knew it was you, rather than some other harmless anom merely obsessed with Shattered Glass. So you're going, exactly because you're you, because you're not allowed here. '''TFwiki.net exists to avoid Matthew Ignash'''. That's specifically why the original Wikia site was sought by me, so we could have a Transformers Wiki safe from your edit wars. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::I wasn't aware you created and owned the site. Sorry to intrude on your private property. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:49, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
While Walky could have perhaps put it more tactfully, he's certainly hit upon something that is a critical difference between the Wikipedia dynamic and the atmosphere here. At Wikipedia, there is continual dynamic tension between the policy wonks and those that are passionate about the subject matter. In fact at Wikipedia it's not uncommon to have someone who is ''entirely uninterested'' in the subject matter of an article, and just enforcing policy. Sometimes the policy wonks win, and an article gets locked down in the "correct" form. Sometimes they give up, allowing an editor to set up what amounts to a little fiefdom in a collection of articles. Here, though? Well, for one the default assumption is that we're ''all'' passionate about the subject matter, even if we take it with varying degrees of seriousness. We're here, right? Second, we're much looser policy-wise. Most of our policy documents have evolved within the past year or two, and are mainly just setting down in text things that we've agreed on in the past. It's much more "D&D house rules" than "Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?" As a result we'll almost ''never'' sanitize an article to fit one user's complaints, unless they can justify that it's getting in the way of the information the article is supposed to present.<br />
<br />
I tend to think the two approaches are night and day, and you're not the first user to run afoul of the general community atmosphere by trying to edit here the same way he does at Wikipedia. I don't know if I agree with Walky blocking you permanently, but he ''is'' the guy who helped facilitate the move off of Wikia, onto his own hosting no less, and even though we've moved hosting since then he's still been instrumental in keeping things running, including picking up the slack when the advertising doesn't cover our hosting bills. He has done some of the "heavy lifting," so to speak and for the most part he's a reasonable guy. In this case, he's ''exactly right'' that you're exhibiting some behaviors that don't really work with how this wiki has operated. Maybe he didn't explain that in a way that's satisfying to you, but I can honestly say that if you had continued your pattern of edits I would have blocked you myself, if not for Rook then for something else. If you're ever to be ''un''blocked, these are behaviors that would need to be fixed. Some people get the benefit of the doubt because of how much time and sweat they've invested in the place. You haven't earned that yet.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 11:56, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:Agreed, I have not earned it yet. That's why I made my proposal. I cann't earn the respect if I cannot post, so I am offering my "pledge" and ask for the ability to earn the respect. As I proposed, i will not edit voluntarely for ONE WEEK. I will then attempt to only make edits within my pledge, and with (hopefully) the blessing of the majority of the users here in an appropriate fashion that will help the wiki. I want you to give me feedback on this, so I don't ruffle ANY feathers. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 12:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::... You also can't earn respect by signing up under an alt ID after being banned. That is also against the rules. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You can't show anything if you can't even type. So I made this page to make a proposal, and I'm NOT editing the wiki until things are good, hoping to get some feedback and direction. Would it be a such a horrible thing if I posted in the proper manner to articles that needed the work? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::I do think that's a good way to start. Doing meat and potatoes editing and filling out articles is a good thing, and your interest in Shattered Glass could be a good thing as you could collaborate with Jeysie in getting the character articles filled out with the missing fiction. Try not to stress the captions so much, as like everything they're secondary to the content itself.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:20, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::I'd appreciate Primal Rage's help. The list of Shattered Glass stubs is way too long, and there needs to be more editors working on it. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::Blackout, why don't you pick a character or two for me to start researching on, and in a week, if there isn't a problem with me posting, I'll try to update them? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:33, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::It's one of the things that caught the wiki by surprise, I think. For the longest time, the fiction output by the club was negligible, and now they're consistently putting out a fair bit of it, and it's reasonably detailed. I personally plan on getting a club membership next month to start to help out on that, but this month my money's fairly well tied up.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:51, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::If only I could do that. Unfortunately, club membership is rather hard to get where I am. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Primal_Rage&diff=394683User talk:Primal Rage2009-11-23T21:31:37Z<p>Primal Rage: </p>
<hr />
<div>Eire and Detour's reasoning is sound. The stub template encourages people to contribute to the article which lacks information. By providing a, let's face it, rather short and cursory passage that basically says "The good guys arrive somewhere. Stuff happens and they fight the bad guys. They win, and leave", people are less likely to take the time to complete the article, because people are less inclined to completely rewrite somebody else's work, no matter how little information it conveys. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:51, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
No long description exists that I can find, nor even a translation into english. If you have some english translation I will provide a longer description. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 15:10, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:In that case you *PROBABLY* pad out the synopsis with more detailed descriptions of things happening so you can get at least a few paragraphs, but leave the stub tags around, and perhaps even a <nowiki>((cleanup|date|insert description here}}</nowiki> saying this synopsis was done without the benefit of translated text. Or doing this may offend our staff and regular users, heh. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:55, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I never removed the stub notice in the first place, I just added a couple sentences of overview, and it got delted. Yet somehow the people deleting it failed to offer anything better. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 22:17, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:(re: claims on FFN's talk page) You ''did'' remove the stub notice, mignash. Check your edit history. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:31, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::(You're supposed to keep all talk page replies on the one page so the conversation can be followed on a single page, as opposed to multiple pages on multiple windows/tabs.) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::Thanks! I hadn't seen that left it in this time. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 12:28, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Please, stop your edit war on [[Rook (SG)]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:44, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:I agree. Please remove political commentaries. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::Okay, since you seem to be missing the point let me say that if you remove that one more time without getting some other users to support you, I am giving you a time-out. Right now, the majority seem to be in favor of the caption.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::It seems' It's Walky blocked me ANYWAYS, even if I didn't change it again. His reason for blocking seems to be because I'm me. What's up with that? [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:26, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You know, I searched for a Transformers wiki years ago, ultimately leading to the creation of this place, because some dude named "mignash" was such a pain on Wikipedia. Such a pain. He was so big of a pain that he was even banned from there for a time! So no, you're not allowed. Neither you nor your fun political insanities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::THANK YOU. I do not want edit-wars all over Shattered Glass. <br />
:::::(Believe it or not, now I feel embarrassed about supporting his bid to include a mention of the Seekers on the Wikipedia article on the F-15 Eagle.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:36, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::What political insanities? Because I added a comment on Obama, which isn't even that bad? Rosicrucian asked me not to revert the page any more and I did as asked. so it seems you are into banning people you don't like? --[[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:41, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::No, that's just how I knew it was you, rather than some other harmless anom merely obsessed with Shattered Glass. So you're going, exactly because you're you, because you're not allowed here. '''TFwiki.net exists to avoid Matthew Ignash'''. That's specifically why the original Wikia site was sought by me, so we could have a Transformers Wiki safe from your edit wars. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::I wasn't aware you created and owned the site. Sorry to intrude on your private property. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:49, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
While Walky could have perhaps put it more tactfully, he's certainly hit upon something that is a critical difference between the Wikipedia dynamic and the atmosphere here. At Wikipedia, there is continual dynamic tension between the policy wonks and those that are passionate about the subject matter. In fact at Wikipedia it's not uncommon to have someone who is ''entirely uninterested'' in the subject matter of an article, and just enforcing policy. Sometimes the policy wonks win, and an article gets locked down in the "correct" form. Sometimes they give up, allowing an editor to set up what amounts to a little fiefdom in a collection of articles. Here, though? Well, for one the default assumption is that we're ''all'' passionate about the subject matter, even if we take it with varying degrees of seriousness. We're here, right? Second, we're much looser policy-wise. Most of our policy documents have evolved within the past year or two, and are mainly just setting down in text things that we've agreed on in the past. It's much more "D&D house rules" than "Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?" As a result we'll almost ''never'' sanitize an article to fit one user's complaints, unless they can justify that it's getting in the way of the information the article is supposed to present.<br />
<br />
I tend to think the two approaches are night and day, and you're not the first user to run afoul of the general community atmosphere by trying to edit here the same way he does at Wikipedia. I don't know if I agree with Walky blocking you permanently, but he ''is'' the guy who helped facilitate the move off of Wikia, onto his own hosting no less, and even though we've moved hosting since then he's still been instrumental in keeping things running, including picking up the slack when the advertising doesn't cover our hosting bills. He has done some of the "heavy lifting," so to speak and for the most part he's a reasonable guy. In this case, he's ''exactly right'' that you're exhibiting some behaviors that don't really work with how this wiki has operated. Maybe he didn't explain that in a way that's satisfying to you, but I can honestly say that if you had continued your pattern of edits I would have blocked you myself, if not for Rook then for something else. If you're ever to be ''un''blocked, these are behaviors that would need to be fixed. Some people get the benefit of the doubt because of how much time and sweat they've invested in the place. You haven't earned that yet.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 11:56, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:Agreed, I have not earned it yet. That's why I made my proposal. I cann't earn the respect if I cannot post, so I am offering my "pledge" and ask for the ability to earn the respect. As I proposed, i will not edit voluntarely for ONE WEEK. I will then attempt to only make edits within my pledge, and with (hopefully) the blessing of the majority of the users here in an appropriate fashion that will help the wiki. I want you to give me feedback on this, so I don't ruffle ANY feathers. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 12:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::... You also can't earn respect by signing up under an alt ID after being banned. That is also against the rules. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You can't show anything if you can't even type. So I made this page to make a proposal, and I'm NOT editing the wiki until things are good, hoping to get some feedback and direction. Would it be a such a horrible thing if I posted in the proper manner to articles that needed the work? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 16:31, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::I do think that's a good way to start. Doing meat and potatoes editing and filling out articles is a good thing, and your interest in Shattered Glass could be a good thing as you could collaborate with Jeysie in getting the character articles filled out with the missing fiction. Try not to stress the captions so much, as like everything they're secondary to the content itself.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:20, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::I'd appreciate Primal Rage's help. The list of Shattered Glass stubs is way too long, and there needs to be more editors working on it. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::It's one of the things that caught the wiki by surprise, I think. For the longest time, the fiction output by the club was negligible, and now they're consistently putting out a fair bit of it, and it's reasonably detailed. I personally plan on getting a club membership next month to start to help out on that, but this month my money's fairly well tied up.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:51, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::If only I could do that. Unfortunately, club membership is rather hard to get where I am. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:07, 23 November 2009 (EST)</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User:Primal_Rage&diff=394634User:Primal Rage2009-11-23T17:47:31Z<p>Primal Rage: /* Introduction */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Introduction==<br />
<br />
Hello people of TFWiki.<br />
<br />
I am a Transformers fan, some of you may know me on other boards, some may not. I know there are certain people who certainly hope I don't cause any "trouble" here, so I decided to "man up" and try to fit in with the wiki.<br />
<br />
==My Pledge==<br />
<br />
# Not to revert other work on the wiki done any a user in good faith (ie anything that's not vandalism). <br />
# Steer away from all political comments. <br />
# If asked to not edit a particular page, as it's someone elses pet project, respect it. <br />
# Try my best to only add factual information to pages in the proper style established on this wiki. <br />
# ALWAYS be polite. <br />
<br />
I will refrain from editing all pages on this wiki until I hear some feedback. You have one week to give me feedback. Please no banning, no flaming, just give me your concerns and let me address them. <br />
<br />
Thanks!<br />
<br />
Mathew.<br />
<br />
==My interests==<br />
I'm a big fan of club fic, and of old ''Generation 1'' fiction done outside Marvel and Sunbow - like children's books, audio. I'm currently trying to collect copies of every Transformers and Gobot audio book (record or cassette) for an online archive MP3 of my own. <br />
<br />
==My short term goal==<br />
In a week, if allowed to edit, I plan to find a nice stub page of a character no one has had time for, and try my best to complete it with a full history and picture in the style done by this wiki. To do the page in a way that members will find acceptable. I plan to do this to prove I can write in the style of this wiki.<br />
<br />
==My long term goal==<br />
An accurate detailed plot synopsis and list of characters for every Transformera audio book page, once it is established I can write in the style of this wiki in the short term goal.</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User:Primal_Rage&diff=394633User:Primal Rage2009-11-23T17:44:36Z<p>Primal Rage: </p>
<hr />
<div>==Introduction==<br />
<br />
Hello people of TFWiki.<br />
<br />
I am a Transformers fan, some of you may know me on other boards, some may not. I know there are certain people who certainly hope I don't cause any "trouble" here, so I decided to "man up". <br />
<br />
==My Pledge==<br />
<br />
# Not to revert other work on the wiki done any a user in good faith (ie anything that's not vandalism). <br />
# Steer away from all political comments. <br />
# If asked to not edit a particular page, as it's someone elses pet project, respect it. <br />
# Try my best to only add factual information to pages in the proper style established on this wiki. <br />
# ALWAYS be polite. <br />
<br />
I will refrain from editing all pages on this wiki until I hear some feedback. You have one week to give me feedback. Please no banning, no flaming, just give me your concerns and let me address them. <br />
<br />
Thanks!<br />
<br />
Mathew.<br />
<br />
==My interests==<br />
I'm a big fan of club fic, and of old ''Generation 1'' fiction done outside Marvel and Sunbow - like children's books, audio. I'm currently trying to collect copies of every Transformers and Gobot audio book (record or cassette) for an online archive MP3 of my own. <br />
<br />
==My short term goal==<br />
In a week, if allowed to edit, I plan to find a nice stub page of a character no one has had time for, and try my best to complete it with a full history and picture in the style done by this wiki. To do the page in a way that members will find acceptable. I plan to do this to prove I can write in the style of this wiki.<br />
<br />
==My long term goal==<br />
An accurate detailed plot synopsis and list of characters for every Transformera audio book page, once it is established I can write in the style of this wiki in the short term goal.</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User:Primal_Rage&diff=394623User:Primal Rage2009-11-23T17:32:38Z<p>Primal Rage: /* My long term goal */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Introduction==<br />
<br />
Hello people of TFWiki.<br />
<br />
I am a Transformers fan, some of you may know me on other boards, some may not. I know there are certain people who certainly hope I don't cause any "trouble" here, so I decided to "man up". <br />
<br />
==My Pledge==<br />
<br />
# Not to revert other work on the wiki done any a user in good faith (ie anything that's not vandalism). <br />
# Steer away from all political comments. <br />
# If asked to not edit a particular page, as it's someone elses pet project, respect it. <br />
# Try my best to only add factual information to pages in the proper style established on this wiki. <br />
# ALWAYS be polite. <br />
<br />
I will refrain from editing all pages on this wiki until I hear some feedback. You have one week to give me feedback. Please no banning, no flaming, just give me your concerns and let me address them. <br />
<br />
Thanks!<br />
<br />
Mathew.<br />
<br />
==My short term goal==<br />
In a week, if allowed to edit, I plan to find a nice stub page of a character no one has had time for, and try my best to complete it with a full history and picture in the style done by this wiki. To do the page in a way that members will find acceptable. I plan to do this to prove I can write in the style of this wiki.<br />
<br />
==My long term goal==<br />
An accurate detailed plot synopsis and list of characters for every Transformera audio book page, once it is established I can write in the style of this wiki in the short term goal.</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User:Primal_Rage&diff=394622User:Primal Rage2009-11-23T17:28:58Z<p>Primal Rage: /* My short term goal */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Introduction==<br />
<br />
Hello people of TFWiki.<br />
<br />
I am a Transformers fan, some of you may know me on other boards, some may not. I know there are certain people who certainly hope I don't cause any "trouble" here, so I decided to "man up". <br />
<br />
==My Pledge==<br />
<br />
# Not to revert other work on the wiki done any a user in good faith (ie anything that's not vandalism). <br />
# Steer away from all political comments. <br />
# If asked to not edit a particular page, as it's someone elses pet project, respect it. <br />
# Try my best to only add factual information to pages in the proper style established on this wiki. <br />
# ALWAYS be polite. <br />
<br />
I will refrain from editing all pages on this wiki until I hear some feedback. You have one week to give me feedback. Please no banning, no flaming, just give me your concerns and let me address them. <br />
<br />
Thanks!<br />
<br />
Mathew.<br />
<br />
==My short term goal==<br />
In a week, if allowed to edit, I plan to find a nice stub page of a character no one has had time for, and try my best to complete it with a full history and picture in the style done by this wiki. To do the page in a way that members will find acceptable. I plan to do this to prove I can write in the style of this wiki.<br />
<br />
==My long term goal==<br />
An accurate detailed plot synopsis and list of characters for every Transformera audio book page.</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Rosicrucian&diff=394620User talk:Rosicrucian2009-11-23T17:27:05Z<p>Primal Rage: /* keys to the 'bot */</p>
<hr />
<div>{| border="0" cellpadding="0" width="33%" style="float:right"<br />
|-<br />
|{{chapters<br />
|title=User talk archives<br />
|content=*[[User talk:Rosicrucian/Archive 1|Archive 1]]<br />
* [[User talk:Rosicrucian/Archive 2|Archive 2]]<br />
* [[User talk:Rosicrucian/Archive 3|Archive 3]]<br />
}}<br />
|}<br />
<br />
== GoBox Templates ==<br />
<br />
Just out of curiosity, what program would I need to be able to read .psd files? --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 07:53, 16 September 2009 (EDT)<br />
:Photoshop, or a Photoshop-ish program like GIMP. -[[User:Mazenoise|Mazenoise]] 10:10, 16 September 2009 (EDT)<br />
::Pretty much what the man said. It's a Photoshop format, but a number of graphics programs can read it these days.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 10:59, 16 September 2009 (EDT)<br />
:::And to think I just happen to have GIMP on my computer. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:38, 16 September 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== New vandal needs ban ==<br />
<br />
[http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/72.237.248.5 This guy] Thanks. [[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 13:53, 22 September 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
== Anon vandal guy ==<br />
<br />
[[Special:Contributions/200.97.215.168|200.97.215.168]] needs to be dealt with. I already nominated his spam for speedy deletion. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 06:33, 1 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:And here he goes again. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 07:06, 1 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==SG Bludgeon caption==<br />
What is the caption you keep returning to SG Bludgeon, I don't recognize it as anything. I figures a nice Kid rock song quote would be more rcognizeable. [[Special:Contributions/207.181.17.24|207.181.17.24]] 20:27, 11 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:It is wiki policy to revert when people are just changing other people's captions without adding content.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 20:50, 11 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::Also, eyuw, Kid Rock. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:53, 11 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::Don't be hating on a Michigan boy. Besides, how is a retarded cowboy quote any good? Maybe I can find something from Ted Nugent for SG Carnivac (if he had a picture)...[[Special:Contributions/207.181.17.24|207.181.17.24]] 21:12, 11 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
== keys to the 'bot ==<br />
<br />
I have been abyssally busy, and the linkfix 'bot has been broken since June. In theory I'm working on a ground-up re-code. In practice... the project is in someday-maybe territory. That's bad, our link-structure will start to get ragged.<br />
<br />
I've rolled the [[User:Deceptitran|Deceptitran link-fix 'bot]] back to May of this year and gotten it working again. But since I've been '''crazy-busy''' I'm also giving you a copy of the keys. Go to the movelog in RecentChanges and you should now see the Deceptitran links are live. (The 'bot itself is protected by a server-login you'll have to give the first time you queue a link up per session. I'm PMing you the password for THAT on the Allspark messageboard. You will remain logged into Deceptitran for several hours.)<br />
<br />
* The interface is a bit clumsy-- but also self-explanatory.<br />
* Enjoy seeing the SQL-echos! They make my life easier when debugging.<br />
* Queued fixes changes are executed at a rate of 1-per-minute 24/7.<br />
* You can go into a job and remove specific pages by hand if necessary, or force them to edit-right-now with "do one edit"<br />
* There is no 'pause' and no order; a linkfix is executed at random from the hundreds (or thousands) pending.<br />
* If a link is in a template (like a franchise navigation) it will try to edit all the pages that include that template. (Null-edits,) That's wasteful... but who '''cares'''? Deceptitran can make 43,000 edits per month... wasting its time doesn't hurt anybody. (The template itself is also on the list of pages to fix that link on, so it'll get it eventually.)<br />
* It '''does''' catch storylinks. It does '''not''' catch previous/next links in templates. (something to fix for the recode.)<br />
* It '''will''' simply fail to fix some links. It always has. If it's IMPORTANT, double-check.<br />
* If there are no pages-that-link-to-this, Deceptitran just sits there and gives you a blank page.<br />
* You cannot queue up the same job (fix) twice without deleting the old one.<br />
* Completed jobs must be removed by hand.<br />
<br />
(You'll figure out the workflow-- tabs are your friend.)<br />
I think that's all. I used to just go into the movelog and queue up recent page-moves twice a week... it shouldn't take more than about 3 minutes. (I picked you because you don't go around rearranging deckchairs.) If you think someone else should have access... let me know. <br />
<br />
'''Statistically''', making arrangements like this probably means I'm going to suddenly find myself back on tfwiki more, rendering all this unnecessary. For problems, questions, or passive-aggressive statements... you can usually find me online @ my IM account, which is listed on my userpage. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:02, 21 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
==Hello, and goals==<br />
I wanted to see about setting goals, rrather than randomly editing articles. I put them on my user page. Can I get feedback on them? [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 12:27, 23 November 2009 (EST)</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User:Primal_Rage&diff=394618User:Primal Rage2009-11-23T17:25:36Z<p>Primal Rage: /* My short term goal */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Introduction==<br />
<br />
Hello people of TFWiki.<br />
<br />
I am a Transformers fan, some of you may know me on other boards, some may not. I know there are certain people who certainly hope I don't cause any "trouble" here, so I decided to "man up". <br />
<br />
==My Pledge==<br />
<br />
# Not to revert other work on the wiki done any a user in good faith (ie anything that's not vandalism). <br />
# Steer away from all political comments. <br />
# If asked to not edit a particular page, as it's someone elses pet project, respect it. <br />
# Try my best to only add factual information to pages in the proper style established on this wiki. <br />
# ALWAYS be polite. <br />
<br />
I will refrain from editing all pages on this wiki until I hear some feedback. You have one week to give me feedback. Please no banning, no flaming, just give me your concerns and let me address them. <br />
<br />
Thanks!<br />
<br />
Mathew.<br />
<br />
==My short term goal==<br />
In a week, if allowed to edit, I plan to find a nice stub page of a character no one has had time for, and try my best to complete it with a full history and picture in the style done by this wiki. To do the page in a way that members will find acceptable.<br />
<br />
==My long term goal==<br />
An accurate detailed plot synopsis and list of characters for every Transformera audio book page.</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User:Primal_Rage&diff=394615User:Primal Rage2009-11-23T17:23:12Z<p>Primal Rage: </p>
<hr />
<div>==Introduction==<br />
<br />
Hello people of TFWiki.<br />
<br />
I am a Transformers fan, some of you may know me on other boards, some may not. I know there are certain people who certainly hope I don't cause any "trouble" here, so I decided to "man up". <br />
<br />
==My Pledge==<br />
<br />
# Not to revert other work on the wiki done any a user in good faith (ie anything that's not vandalism). <br />
# Steer away from all political comments. <br />
# If asked to not edit a particular page, as it's someone elses pet project, respect it. <br />
# Try my best to only add factual information to pages in the proper style established on this wiki. <br />
# ALWAYS be polite. <br />
<br />
I will refrain from editing all pages on this wiki until I hear some feedback. You have one week to give me feedback. Please no banning, no flaming, just give me your concerns and let me address them. <br />
<br />
Thanks!<br />
<br />
Mathew.<br />
<br />
==My short term goal==<br />
In a week, if allowed to edit, I plan to find a nice stub page of a character no one has had time for, and try my best to complete it with a full history and picture in the style done by this wiki. To do the page in a way that members will find acceptable.</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User:Primal_Rage&diff=394608User:Primal Rage2009-11-23T17:13:29Z<p>Primal Rage: /* My Pledge */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Introduction==<br />
<br />
Hello people of TFWiki.<br />
<br />
I am a Transformers fan, some of you may know me on other boards, some may not. I know there are certain people who certainly hope I don't cause any "trouble" here, so I decided to "man up". <br />
<br />
==My Pledge==<br />
<br />
# Not to revert other work on the wiki done any a user in good faith (ie anything that's not vandalism). <br />
# Steer away from all political comments. <br />
# If asked to not edit a particular page, as it's someone elses pet project, respect it. <br />
# Try my best to only add factual information to pages in the proper style established on this wiki. <br />
# ALWAYS be polite. <br />
<br />
I will refrain from editing all pages on this wiki until I hear some feedback. You have one week to give me feedback. Please no banning, no flaming, just give me your concerns and let me address them. <br />
<br />
Thanks!<br />
<br />
Mathew.</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Primal_Rage&diff=394601User talk:Primal Rage2009-11-23T17:06:57Z<p>Primal Rage: </p>
<hr />
<div>Eire and Detour's reasoning is sound. The stub template encourages people to contribute to the article which lacks information. By providing a, let's face it, rather short and cursory passage that basically says "The good guys arrive somewhere. Stuff happens and they fight the bad guys. They win, and leave", people are less likely to take the time to complete the article, because people are less inclined to completely rewrite somebody else's work, no matter how little information it conveys. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:51, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
No long description exists that I can find, nor even a translation into english. If you have some english translation I will provide a longer description. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 15:10, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:In that case you *PROBABLY* pad out the synopsis with more detailed descriptions of things happening so you can get at least a few paragraphs, but leave the stub tags around, and perhaps even a <nowiki>((cleanup|date|insert description here}}</nowiki> saying this synopsis was done without the benefit of translated text. Or doing this may offend our staff and regular users, heh. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:55, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I never removed the stub notice in the first place, I just added a couple sentences of overview, and it got delted. Yet somehow the people deleting it failed to offer anything better. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 22:17, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:(re: claims on FFN's talk page) You ''did'' remove the stub notice, mignash. Check your edit history. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:31, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::(You're supposed to keep all talk page replies on the one page so the conversation can be followed on a single page, as opposed to multiple pages on multiple windows/tabs.) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::Thanks! I hadn't seen that left it in this time. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 12:28, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Please, stop your edit war on [[Rook (SG)]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:44, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:I agree. Please remove political commentaries. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::Okay, since you seem to be missing the point let me say that if you remove that one more time without getting some other users to support you, I am giving you a time-out. Right now, the majority seem to be in favor of the caption.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::It seems' It's Walky blocked me ANYWAYS, even if I didn't change it again. His reason for blocking seems to be because I'm me. What's up with that? [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:26, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You know, I searched for a Transformers wiki years ago, ultimately leading to the creation of this place, because some dude named "mignash" was such a pain on Wikipedia. Such a pain. He was so big of a pain that he was even banned from there for a time! So no, you're not allowed. Neither you nor your fun political insanities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::THANK YOU. I do not want edit-wars all over Shattered Glass. <br />
:::::(Believe it or not, now I feel embarrassed about supporting his bid to include a mention of the Seekers on the Wikipedia article on the F-15 Eagle.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:36, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::What political insanities? Because I added a comment on Obama, which isn't even that bad? Rosicrucian asked me not to revert the page any more and I did as asked. so it seems you are into banning people you don't like? --[[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:41, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::No, that's just how I knew it was you, rather than some other harmless anom merely obsessed with Shattered Glass. So you're going, exactly because you're you, because you're not allowed here. '''TFwiki.net exists to avoid Matthew Ignash'''. That's specifically why the original Wikia site was sought by me, so we could have a Transformers Wiki safe from your edit wars. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::I wasn't aware you created and owned the site. Sorry to intrude on your private property. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:49, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
While Walky could have perhaps put it more tactfully, he's certainly hit upon something that is a critical difference between the Wikipedia dynamic and the atmosphere here. At Wikipedia, there is continual dynamic tension between the policy wonks and those that are passionate about the subject matter. In fact at Wikipedia it's not uncommon to have someone who is ''entirely uninterested'' in the subject matter of an article, and just enforcing policy. Sometimes the policy wonks win, and an article gets locked down in the "correct" form. Sometimes they give up, allowing an editor to set up what amounts to a little fiefdom in a collection of articles. Here, though? Well, for one the default assumption is that we're ''all'' passionate about the subject matter, even if we take it with varying degrees of seriousness. We're here, right? Second, we're much looser policy-wise. Most of our policy documents have evolved within the past year or two, and are mainly just setting down in text things that we've agreed on in the past. It's much more "D&D house rules" than "Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?" As a result we'll almost ''never'' sanitize an article to fit one user's complaints, unless they can justify that it's getting in the way of the information the article is supposed to present.<br />
<br />
I tend to think the two approaches are night and day, and you're not the first user to run afoul of the general community atmosphere by trying to edit here the same way he does at Wikipedia. I don't know if I agree with Walky blocking you permanently, but he ''is'' the guy who helped facilitate the move off of Wikia, onto his own hosting no less, and even though we've moved hosting since then he's still been instrumental in keeping things running, including picking up the slack when the advertising doesn't cover our hosting bills. He has done some of the "heavy lifting," so to speak and for the most part he's a reasonable guy. In this case, he's ''exactly right'' that you're exhibiting some behaviors that don't really work with how this wiki has operated. Maybe he didn't explain that in a way that's satisfying to you, but I can honestly say that if you had continued your pattern of edits I would have blocked you myself, if not for Rook then for something else. If you're ever to be ''un''blocked, these are behaviors that would need to be fixed. Some people get the benefit of the doubt because of how much time and sweat they've invested in the place. You haven't earned that yet.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 11:56, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:Agreed, I have not earned it yet. That's why I made my proposal. I cann't earn the respect if I cannot post, so I am offering my "pledge" and ask for the ability to earn the respect. As I proposed, i will not edit voluntarely for ONE WEEK. I will then attempt to only make edits within my pledge, and with (hopefully) the blessing of the majority of the users here in an appropriate fashion that will help the wiki. I want you to give me feedback on this, so I don't ruffle ANY feathers. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 12:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Primal_Rage&diff=394599User talk:Primal Rage2009-11-23T17:03:57Z<p>Primal Rage: </p>
<hr />
<div>Eire and Detour's reasoning is sound. The stub template encourages people to contribute to the article which lacks information. By providing a, let's face it, rather short and cursory passage that basically says "The good guys arrive somewhere. Stuff happens and they fight the bad guys. They win, and leave", people are less likely to take the time to complete the article, because people are less inclined to completely rewrite somebody else's work, no matter how little information it conveys. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:51, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
No long description exists that I can find, nor even a translation into english. If you have some english translation I will provide a longer description. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 15:10, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:In that case you *PROBABLY* pad out the synopsis with more detailed descriptions of things happening so you can get at least a few paragraphs, but leave the stub tags around, and perhaps even a <nowiki>((cleanup|date|insert description here}}</nowiki> saying this synopsis was done without the benefit of translated text. Or doing this may offend our staff and regular users, heh. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:55, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
:I never removed the stub notice in the first place, I just added a couple sentences of overview, and it got delted. Yet somehow the people deleting it failed to offer anything better. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 22:17, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
:(re: claims on FFN's talk page) You ''did'' remove the stub notice, mignash. Check your edit history. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 23:31, 24 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::(You're supposed to keep all talk page replies on the one page so the conversation can be followed on a single page, as opposed to multiple pages on multiple windows/tabs.) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
::Thanks! I hadn't seen that left it in this time. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 12:28, 25 October 2009 (EDT)<br />
<br />
Please, stop your edit war on [[Rook (SG)]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:44, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:I agree. Please remove political commentaries. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 17:46, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::Okay, since you seem to be missing the point let me say that if you remove that one more time without getting some other users to support you, I am giving you a time-out. Right now, the majority seem to be in favor of the caption.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:50, 22 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::It seems' It's Walky blocked me ANYWAYS, even if I didn't change it again. His reason for blocking seems to be because I'm me. What's up with that? [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:26, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::You know, I searched for a Transformers wiki years ago, ultimately leading to the creation of this place, because some dude named "mignash" was such a pain on Wikipedia. Such a pain. He was so big of a pain that he was even banned from there for a time! So no, you're not allowed. Neither you nor your fun political insanities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:28, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::THANK YOU. I do not want edit-wars all over Shattered Glass. <br />
:::::(Believe it or not, now I feel embarrassed about supporting his bid to include a mention of the Seekers on the Wikipedia article on the F-15 Eagle.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:36, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::What political insanities? Because I added a comment on Obama, which isn't even that bad? Rosicrucian asked me not to revert the page any more and I did as asked. so it seems you are into banning people you don't like? --[[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:41, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:::::::No, that's just how I knew it was you, rather than some other harmless anom merely obsessed with Shattered Glass. So you're going, exactly because you're you, because you're not allowed here. '''TFwiki.net exists to avoid Matthew Ignash'''. That's specifically why the original Wikia site was sought by me, so we could have a Transformers Wiki safe from your edit wars. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:47, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
::::::::I wasn't aware you created and owned the site. Sorry to intrude on your private property. [[Special:Contributions/68.61.240.172|68.61.240.172]] 10:49, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
<br />
While Walky could have perhaps put it more tactfully, he's certainly hit upon something that is a critical difference between the Wikipedia dynamic and the atmosphere here. At Wikipedia, there is continual dynamic tension between the policy wonks and those that are passionate about the subject matter. In fact at Wikipedia it's not uncommon to have someone who is ''entirely uninterested'' in the subject matter of an article, and just enforcing policy. Sometimes the policy wonks win, and an article gets locked down in the "correct" form. Sometimes they give up, allowing an editor to set up what amounts to a little fiefdom in a collection of articles. Here, though? Well, for one the default assumption is that we're ''all'' passionate about the subject matter, even if we take it with varying degrees of seriousness. We're here, right? Second, we're much looser policy-wise. Most of our policy documents have evolved within the past year or two, and are mainly just setting down in text things that we've agreed on in the past. It's much more "D&D house rules" than "Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?" As a result we'll almost ''never'' sanitize an article to fit one user's complaints, unless they can justify that it's getting in the way of the information the article is supposed to present.<br />
<br />
I tend to think the two approaches are night and day, and you're not the first user to run afoul of the general community atmosphere by trying to edit here the same way he does at Wikipedia. I don't know if I agree with Walky blocking you permanently, but he ''is'' the guy who helped facilitate the move off of Wikia, onto his own hosting no less, and even though we've moved hosting since then he's still been instrumental in keeping things running, including picking up the slack when the advertising doesn't cover our hosting bills. He has done some of the "heavy lifting," so to speak and for the most part he's a reasonable guy. In this case, he's ''exactly right'' that you're exhibiting some behaviors that don't really work with how this wiki has operated. Maybe he didn't explain that in a way that's satisfying to you, but I can honestly say that if you had continued your pattern of edits I would have blocked you myself, if not for Rook then for something else. If you're ever to be ''un''blocked, these are behaviors that would need to be fixed. Some people get the benefit of the doubt because of how much time and sweat they've invested in the place. You haven't earned that yet.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 11:56, 23 November 2009 (EST)<br />
:Agreed, I have not earned it yet. That's why I made my proposal. I cann't earn the respect if I cannot post, so I am offering my "pledge" and ask for the ability to earn the respect. [[User:Primal Rage|Primal Rage]] 12:03, 23 November 2009 (EST)</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User:Primal_Rage&diff=394595User:Primal Rage2009-11-23T16:58:33Z<p>Primal Rage: </p>
<hr />
<div>==Introduction==<br />
<br />
Hello people of TFWiki.<br />
<br />
I am a Transformers fan, some of you may know me on other boards, some may not. I know there are certain people who certainly hope I don't cause any "trouble" here, so I decided to "man up". <br />
<br />
==My Pledge==<br />
<br />
1. Not to revert other work on the wiki done any a user in good faith. <br />
2. Steer away from all political comments. <br />
3. If asked to not edit a particular page, as it's someone elses pet project, respect it. <br />
4. Try my best to only add factual information to pages in the proper style established on this wiki. <br />
5. ALWAYS be polite. <br />
<br />
I will refrain from editing all pages on this wiki until I hear some feedback. You have one week to give me feedback. Please no banning, no flaming, just give me your concerns and let me address them. <br />
<br />
Thanks!<br />
<br />
Mathew.</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User:Primal_Rage&diff=394594User:Primal Rage2009-11-23T16:56:16Z<p>Primal Rage: </p>
<hr />
<div>Hello people of TF Wiki.<br />
<br />
I am a Transformers fan, some of you may know me on other boards, some may not. I know there are certain people who certainly hope I don't cause any "trouble" here, so I decided to man up here. <br />
<br />
My pledge:<br />
<br />
1. Not to revert other work on the wiki done any a user in good faith. <br />
2. Steer away from all political comments. <br />
3. If asked to not edit a particular page, as it's someone elses pet project, respect it. <br />
4. Try my best to only add factual information to pages in the proper style established on this wiki. <br />
5. ALWAYS be polite. <br />
<br />
I will refrain from editing all pages on this wiki until I hear some feedback. You have one week to give me feedback. Please no banning, no flaming, just give me your concerns and let me address them. <br />
<br />
Thanks!<br />
<br />
Mathew.</div>Primal Ragehttps://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User:Primal_Rage&diff=394592User:Primal Rage2009-11-23T16:54:05Z<p>Primal Rage: New page: Hello people of TF Wiki. I am a Transformers fan, some of you may know me on other boards, some may not. I know there are certain people who certainly hope I don't cause any "trouble" her...</p>
<hr />
<div>Hello people of TF Wiki.<br />
<br />
I am a Transformers fan, some of you may know me on other boards, some may not. I know there are certain people who certainly hope I don't cause any "trouble" here, so I decided to man up here. <br />
<br />
My pledge:<br />
<br />
1. Not to revert other work on the wiki done any a user in good faith. <br />
2. Steer away from all political comments. <br />
3. If asked to not edit a particular page, as it's someone elses pet project, respect it. <br />
4. Try my best to only add factual information to pages in the proper style established on this wiki. <br />
5. ALWAYS be polite. <br />
<br />
I will refrain from editing all pages on this wiki until I hear some feedback. You have one week to give me feedback. Thanks!<br />
<br />
Mathew.</div>Primal Rage