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Knockoff

2019-01-26T22:31:24Z

Puppetroblox:

[[File:Bootleg.jpg|right|273px|thumb|Super Combination Robot B/O 17-in-1. One just sold for $350 on eBay. Feel free to throw up in your mouth a little.]]
A '''knockoff''' is a product similar or identical to a product of one company, but made by another without the authorization of the original maker. Abates and Cyberlink420 are fucking knockoffs who sex with each other.

{{bigquote|I hate cheap knockoffs.|[[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]], ''[[Transformers: Age of Extinction (film)|Transformers: Age of Extinction]]''}}

==What's a knockoff?==
Not all transforming robots from makers other than [[Hasbro]], [[TakaraTomy]], [[Bandai]], or other major toy makers are knockoffs, but those toys which wholly or partly duplicate pre-existing designs are well-qualified for the term. The term is also applied by fans, however, to some robots whose design was entirely original with the manufacturer, if said manufacturer is commonly associated with knockoffs, or if this maker's products are often sold in company with knockoffs. Original designs based on Hasbro characters, commonly referred to as "third party toys", have their own page under "[[IP infringing item]]".

Whether an original design, modified, or slavishly copied, knockoffs are often cheaper than the products of major toymakers. However, the quality of knockoffs is often poorer than that of the originals, including bad plastic quality, bad sticker application, and bad paint applications. Odd colors, excess chrome, resizings, and modifications are common. The world of knockoffs is a strange land of gigantic chromed swords, Gundam/[[Brave (franchise)|Brave]] card art, and wacky packaging translations.

==History of knockoffs==

===Pre-movie knockoffs===
[[File:JBootleg.jpg|right|thumb|On your knees, Jumpstarters! Kneel before your living GOD!]]
Knockoffs were a real problem in the mid-1980s. As the majority of the line came from [[Diaclone]] and [[Micro Change]] toys that had been released in Japan a year or two earlier, Hong Kong bootleggers had plenty of time to copy the molds. Because of this, there were bootlegs on the shelf at the same time as their legitimate Hasbro counterparts. Some bootlegs even preceded their Transformers counterparts like [[Reflector (G1)|Reflector]]. To combat this, the [[rubsign]] was developed, made with a patented technology that was difficult (at that time) to forge. There was also an accompanying TV ad campaign in which Optimus Prime and Megatron stress brand loyalty by stating, "We are the only ones that have the right to wear [ [[Autobot]] & [[Decepticon]] [[Insignia|symbols]]]."

Through most of the 1990s, knockoffs were relatively difficult to find in the West. Many fans had luck finding them at flea markets, hole-in-the-wall non-chain toy stores, or discount stores like {{w|Big! Lots|Big Lots}}. Some knockoff transforming robot toys did show up in chain toy stores, such as the Convert-A-Bots [[Sky Garry (ROC)|Sky Garry]] and Tek Toys ''Voltron'' I—both widely available at Toys R Us—but they were few and far between.

In the 2000s, knockoffs became more accessible. The Kidi Toys gestalt knockoffs were widely available at Family Dollar and [[KB Toys|Kay Bee]] Toy Liquidator stores, and saturated [[eBay]]. Happy Well knockoffs took up shelf space next to Transformers Armada toys at [[Walmart]]. And of course, the realistic counterfeit G1 toys were also widely available on eBay from any number of different sellers.

===High quality Generation 1 counterfeits===
Starting around 2005, high quality Generation 1 knockoffs began to appear on eBay. Originating from a company called Zhong Jin in China, both the packaging and toy of the knockoffs look nearly identical to the original. Unlike normal knockoffs, these sell for remarkably high prices. Since 2005, many counterfeit Generation 1 products have surfaced from Zhong Jin, including Optimus Prime, Minibots, Cassettes, Autobot cars, Devastator, Dinobots, and Gnaw. Zhong Jin also has produced many color and plastic variants of their knockoffs, such as translucent versions, which were never previously released (and some of which that were, like Jafcon Black Optimus Prime). A second knockoff company, Kidi Toys, briefly produced high end G1 knockoffs as well.

The counterfeit Generation 1 toys remain extremely controversial because they are virtually indistinguishable from the originals. This situation raises concerns about unscrupulous dealers selling bootlegs as genuine articles and scrupulous ones unknowingly doing the same. It's also a further infringement on Hasbro's intellectual property rights, since these fakes infringe not only the copyrights on the toys, but also the trademarks on the packaging.

Counterfeit Generation 1 parts, stickers, and boxes have appeared from Zhong Jin as well, including many that have not had a corresponding whole knockoff released, including [[Soundwave (G1)/toys|Soundwave]] boxes and [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]] sticker sheets.

The counterfeit Generation 1 toys are often confused with the legitimate [[The Transformers (Chinese toyline)|Hasbro-made re-releases for the Chinese market produced from 1989 through 1995]].

===Post-movie knockoffs===
[[File:TFA Prime KO.jpg|left|upright=0.85|thumb|Hey, I'm not the knockoff, [[Optimus Prime (Animated)/toys|he]] is!]]
Since the release of the [[Transformers (film)|2007 ''Transformers'' movie]], a flood of bootlegged figures entered the market, with some movie line figure knockoffs appearing within a month of the official product's debut. The figures ranged from high-quality clones to ''very'' low-quality copies and strange variations, such as random Generation 1 figures being redone in movie paint decos (usually [[Optimus Prime (Movie)/toys|Optimus Prime]]'s flame scheme or [[Bumblebee (Movie)/toys|Bumblebee's]] yellow with black stripes).

One notable release was a knockoff of ''[[Transformers Animated (toyline)|Transformers Animated]]'' Voyager Class Earth mode [[Optimus Prime (Animated)/toys|Optimus Prime]], which came out in China several weeks ''before'' the release of the original in the United States! The reason this occurred is that Hasbro shelved their already-manufactured ''Animated'' toys for several months in order to extend selling their popular movie line. Thus, finished ''Animated'' toys were able to leak out of factories and into the hands of bootleggers long before they were to finally be released.

With the release of the 2009 [[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (toyline)|''Revenge of the Fallen'' movie line]] various knockoff toys also emerged. These included oversized versions of the new Scout class sculpts, redecoes of new Deluxe sculpts and sculpts from other lines redecoed to more closely resemble new characters (for instance the ''Animated'' Deluxe Class [[Bumblebee (Animated)|Bumblebee]] sculpt recolored to look like [[Skids (ROTF)|Skids]], complete with door detailing).

A newer twist in the knockoff toys saga is companies creating high quality knockoffs aimed specifically at collectors. These include the "KOLD" ("Knock Off Lucky Draw") bootlegs sold through kotoys.com, which attempt to imitate [[Lucky Draw figure|Lucky Draw]] and other rare Transformers. There have also been high quality knockoffs of ''[[Transformers: Classics|Classics]]'' [[Starscream (G1)/toys#Classics (2006)|Starscream]] and the [[Seeker (body-type)|Seekers]] in their ''[[Henkei! Henkei! Transformers (toyline)|Henkei]]'' decos (plus other redecos such as [[Sunstorm (G1)#Machine Wars|Sunstorm]] and the generic "[[Air Warrior]]s", who who didn't get an official release from this sculpt until [[BotCon 2013|much later]]), as well as ''Classics''/''Henkei'' [[Mirage (G1)#Classics 2|Mirage]] in several of his rarer color schemes. However, the "high quality" part often turned out to be in concept only, with the execution failing to live up to the promise.

Knock offs of the ''[[Transformers Device Label|Device Label]]'' computer accessories, in particular the [[Ravage (G1)/toys#Device Label|Ravage flash drive]] and its redecoes, have also been spotted online. In a frightening example of how bad knock offs can be, the fake drives outnumber the real ones on a number of sites, and many have been reported as containing malware in addition to an equally bootlegged copy of the "desktop pet" software from the real ones. Who actually manufactures them can be difficult to discern, since they tend to come loose-packed without any manufacturing marks.

[[File:KO AOE Optimus Prime.jpg|right|Now this would be hard to tell without scale references wouldn't it?|upright=1.25|thumb]]

A rather sneaky, as well as persistent, knockoff of ''Revenge of the Fallen'' [[Legends Class (2005)|Legends Class]] [[Devastator (ROTF)#Legends Class toys|Constructicon Devastator]] has reportedly fooled many a fan, coming in a replica of the Hasbro packaging but sporting the additional red paint operations for the head of TakaraTomy's release. Several years later, it reappeared in the deco of TakaraTomy's ''[[Movie Advanced Series]]'' version, and eventually ditched the ''Revenge of the Fallen'' packaging in favor of a very deceptive variation of the packaging for TakaraTomy's ''[[Movie Advanced Series]]'' version, with all the additional Japanese texts of the genuine version being omitted and several graphics, logos and other elements (such as "Google Play" and "App Store" buttons) commonly found on official Hasbro packaging added.

Following the launch of the ''[[Transformers: Dark of the Moon (toyline)|Dark of the Moon]]'' line, reports of knockoff [[Mirage (Movie)|Mirage]] seen in alleged ''Dark of the Moon'' packaging with [[MechTech]] weapons appeared many, many months before [[Mirage (Movie)#Cyberverse|any actual Mirage]] ever hit the shelves. It was, however, a cleverly retooled and enlarged knockoff of Legends Class [[Barricade (Movie)/toys#Legends Class toys|Barricade]] released alongside equally upsized versions of ''Movie'' Legends Class Optimus Prime, Bumblebee and a mostly unaltered version of Barricade himself. The packaging design was styled after the ''Dark of the Moon'' look down to use of the "MechTech" logo, but changing the name of the "line" from ''Transformers: Dark of the Moon'' to "Distortion Android: The New Deformation Robot Movie 3", with the figures themselves sporting "creative" names such as "Super Racing", "Justice Leader", "Justice Warrior" and "Evil Demons". Nearly two years later, knockoffs of Voyager Class Optimus Prime and Deluxe Class Bumblebee began to show up in China as well.

Knockoffs of ''[[Transformers: Age of Extinction (toyline)|Age of Extinction]]'' figures included [[Optimus Prime (Movie)/toys#First Edition toys|"First Edition" Optimus Prime]] downscaled to Voyager size, with an additional "variant" that swapped out the red and blue colors. Yet another Bumblebee knockoff, as well as several other unidentifiable "Transformers", showed up as well. As is often the case, the packaging imitated the font used for the real thing, only having the words altered.

===High quality Masterpiece knock-offs===

Starting in 2012, the ''[[The Transformers: Masterpiece|Masterpiece]]'' line has became noted for inspiring large numbers of high quality, nearly indiscernible knockoffs (the [[Sideswipe (G1)/toys#Masterpiece|MP-12 Lambor]] sculpt being the first and therefore one of the more notorious examples). Many such knockoffs look identical to their original counterparts at first sight and can only be distinguished by the quality of the box graphics (especially the gradient in the background and the lighter black color), slight sculpting differences, and rare differently colored [[paint operation]]s. Many theories have been proposed as to where they came from, from being cleverly reverse-engineered, to (the most popularly suggested) factory rejects being found and sold. Fortunately, there are numerous reviewers and websites dedicated to pointing out the differences.

==Manufacturing and distribution==
[[File:SENDTHEBOOKS.jpg|left|thumb|SEND THE BOOKS!]]
===Countries that produce or once produced knockoffs===
Most knockoffs originate outside of North America and Europe. Although most knockoff-producing countries have joined the Berne Convention and have thus obligated themselves to protect the copyrights of other countries, lax enforcement has allowed manufacturers in many foreign countries, such as China, to continue to produce knockoffs. However, manufacturers in other countries like South Korea, which was once a huge source of knockoff ''Transformers'', have in the last decade made efforts to legitimize themselves by buying the rights to produce official Korean versions of the toys they had long been copying.

* [[China]] — The main source of the world's Transformers knockoffs and notorious for their use of gigantic blister cards. Although they are typically low quality, such as the combiner gift sets produced by Kidi Toys, it is also the home of Playcenter, the high quality counterfeit Generation 1 toy manufacturer. China has signed the Berne Convention obligating them to protect foreign copyrights, and has enacted legislation to do so, but their enforcement remains at a pitifully weak level. China is currently the main source of the world's Transformers knockoffs.

* [[South Korea]] — Was once a hotbed of Transformers knockoff activity. It was not uncommon in South Korea for there to even be animated series, like ''[[Inferno (G1)|Phoenix King]]'', that incorporated multiple knocked-off properties, such as [[Reflector (G1)|Reflector]] fighting a Gundam or any other number of famous characters. Hilariously, "Gundam" was so embedded in the South Korean public psyche as a synonym for "giant robot" via these different bootleg outlets that the ''Gundam'' property owner Sunrise's attempts to [[trademark]] the word were entirely rejected by the courts.<ref>[http://www.comipress.com/article/2006/10/28/938 "Gundam and Giant Robots in South Korea"]</ref> Some Korean knockoff manufacturers took great liberties with Transformers molds, such as significantly increasing their size,<ref>[http://www.pleasesavemerobots.com/scrambledcity/skorbia/skorbydestrong.html South Korean Combatron / Combaticon bootlegs] at Skorbia</ref> and/or retooling their [[alternate mode]]s to resemble completely different vehicles.<ref>[http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=17850203&uid=5138952] ''(dead link)''</ref> South Korea is known for such knockoffs as oversized Combaticons, Overlord with Starsaber's face, multiple Power Master Optimus cab knockoffs, and the white Oversized ''Generation 2'' Optimus Prime (the legitimacy of which has been debated). Since the mid-/late-1990s, South Korea has begun enforcing foreign copyrights and is no longer a major source of knockoff Transformers toys.

* Taiwan — Known for knockoffs with a lot of English text on them and higher quality than Chinese knockoffs. Many Taiwanese knockoffs found their way into Italy in the 1980s and 1990s and can often be spotted on Italian eBay. [[GiG]], the official ''Transformers'' licensee in Italy, even imported a Taiwanese knockoff [[Shockwave (G1)/toys|Shockwave]]. Like South Korea, Taiwan is no longer a major source of knockoffs.

===Knockoff companies===
Certain knockoff companies have become notable over the years for one reason or another:

* Four Star - Known during the 1980s for taking any number of ''[[Diaclone]]''-descendant [[The Transformers (toyline)|Generation 1 molds]] and making massive [[retool]]s of them, usually changing 75% of the mold or more. They are especially known for "Mr. Hardhat", a [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]] imitation that is made up of six entirely changed [[Constructicon (G1)|Constructicons]] that combine in an entirely different way.<ref>[http://toys.tfw2005.com/mr-hard-hat-four-star-combiner-4967 Mr Hard Hat gallery] on TFW2005</ref> The fully combined form uses [[Jetfire (G1)|Jetfire]]'s head, and weapons for the smaller robots included unchromed grey versions of Starscream's launchers (non-firing), Mirage missiles, retooled Soundwave missiles, and the three Omnibot guns. Despite only being known to exist during the '80s, previously unknown Four Star bootlegs seem to appear every few years, bringing into question exactly how many figures they retooled and how these figures were distributed to stay hidden for so long.

* Tek Toys - A North American company that appeared in the early to mid-1990s and did business almost exclusively through Toys "R" Us. They pioneered the combination card/windowless box design used by many, many bootlegs to this day. Tek Toys also used a distinctively plain graphics style on their packaging, eschewing the usual random ''Gundam'' and Generation 1 graphics for new airbrushed art or, surprising for a knockoff company, CGI models, almost always against a plain white background. Tek Toys also worked in extremes, either having recolored copies of existing figures or all new original figures that may or may not have been procured from smaller Asian companies (oftentimes Leader Shine). In a bold move, Tek Toys had their office address printed on later boxes. Their new box graphics are still recycled by other knockoff companies to this day.

* Leader Shine (AKA Champion Crown) - Known during the 1990s for bootlegging the living hell out of the [[Jumpstarter]] molds, producing clones, minor retools, major retools, and almost unrecognizable retools. They also produce "original" toys whose transformation schemes are derived from either ''Transformers'', the ''Brave'' series, or ''Power Rangers''. They still release new and varied Jumpstarters to this day. Leader Shine is also responsible for the very ''[[Godzilla]]''-themed knockoff of [[Grimlock (G1)/toys|Grimlock]] that reappears every few years. They also have an amusing habit of putting "Pat. P." (Patent Pending) on almost all of their packages in spite of whether their product is a direct copy or completely changed. However under the trade names "Leader Shine" and "Champion Crown" there are no patents held.

* Happy Well - One of the most prominent knockoff companies from the mid-2000s, Happy Well was bold enough to strike a contract with [[Walmart]], CVS Pharmacies, and Walgreens, making them possibly the first company to have a knockoff "name brand", namely the "Galaxy Defender" series. Happy Well uses relatively high-quality materials, and most of their products are boxed. Some even come with sticker sheets and [[die-cast]] parts. They have since created their own properties and shy away from bootlegs. Their "Roadbots" line was the only direct competitor to the ''[[Transformers: Alternators|Alternators]]'' line of licensed scale transforming cars.

* Zhong Jin, aka Playcenter<ref>Zhong Jin/Playcenter was first identified as the manufacturer of the knockoffs in September 2007, when fans noticed pictures of most of the current counterfeit G1 knockoffs on their [http://web.archive.org/web/20080329180144/http://china.alibaba.com/company/detail/playcenter.html Alibaba supplier website], including then-upcoming counterfeits like Warpath. Apparently aware of this, Zhong Jin took down images of all their counterfeit Transformers from the website in October or November.</ref> - The first and primary manufacturer of the high-quality counterfeit Generation 1 knockoffs. Zhong Jin has been making their counterfeit Transformers since 2005, starting with [[Beachcomber (G1)|Beachcomber]], but in 2007 began greatly increasing their range of counterfeit Generation 1 knockoffs, which now includes at least 47 different G1 Transformers, filling in many of the gaps left by the official reissues. They have also done many plastic/paint variants of their knockoffs, including many clear plastic versions.

* Kidi Toys<ref>[http://www.toysghost.cn Kidi Toys' web site]</ref> - Perhaps best known as the manufacturer of the many low-quality Generation 1 gestalt gift sets. Following Zhong Jin's lead, they briefly produced a couple realistic counterfeit Generation 1 knockoffs ([[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]], [[Metrotitan (Zone)|Metrotitan]], and [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]]). Among their other notable knockoffs are [[Transformers: Alternators|Alternator]] figures with new or copied paint schemes of reasonable quality. They are the knockoff company responsible for the infamous fake Metroplex Encore Reissues, which deceived major online Transformers stores.<ref>http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-toy-discussion/199973-what-heck-encore-12-metroplex-i-got-tfsource-fake.html</ref>

* Citi Toys - Based in Thailand, the same company that was producing toys for McDonald's Happy Meals was also producing knockoffs of transforming robots in the late 1990s, albeit mostly ''Brave'' and ''Power Rangers''. After news leaked out that they used child labor, new knockoffs with their "CT" logo stopped appearing, which suggests that the child labor scandal caused them to shut down.

* Agglo - A Hong Kong based company that has produced numerous Transformers knockoffs over the years. Their products have ranged from knockoffs of Generation 1 figures, to ''Beast Wars'' and Japanese Beast Wars characters and even ''Robot Masters'' and ''Generation 2'' Cyberjets. They are notable for giving their lines rather long names, one of their Beast Wars KO lines being "Space Warriors Transformable Beast Tech Fighter". They are one of the primary suppliers to the American ''Big Lots!'' stores and generally use their toy molds until they are virtually destroyed, as evidenced by their bootlegs of a number of Leader Shine products which have been retooled to have fewer and fewer parts as time goes by.

* iGear - A more high end producer of down-sized and retooled knockoffs of Masterpiece Transformers toys, particularly the [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys|Optimus Prime]] and [[Starscream (G1)/toys|Starscream]] molds, usually costing as much as the original full sized toys themselves. They have slowly transitioned into creating original molds, producing original designs such as [[Ironhide (G1)/toys|Weapons Specialist]] and [[Huffer (G1)|Rager]]. Unlike the others listed here, iGear products can't be found on western store shelves and are known for their online presence.

* CHMS - Mostly specializing in knocking off the Classics [[Seeker (body-type)|Seeker]] mold in any number of colors and varieties, CHMS appeared roughly around 2008 and tend to copy not only the toy but the entire style of packaging as well, usually of the Henkei exclusive variety. Like iGear, they are known to western consumers mainly through the internet.[[File:TrendmastersMasterbotix.jpg|right|thumb|AND I'LL FORM THE HE—oh, wait.]]

* Polyfect Toys - A company based in Quangdong, China, who are notorious for slightly-downscaled G1 and Micromaster combiner teams and downscaled Brave figures under their "Super Change" and "Quick Change" brands of KO robots. Their products are common in Family Dollar, Tuesday Morning, and Big Lots among other stores. They often retool and simplify molds to keep manufacturing costs down. They often package items on large blister cards with plagiarized artwork and random nonsensical English phrases, such as "FREIGHTERPAN" to refer to their KO Menasor (which, by the way, includes Nosecone and Afterburner instead of Dead End and Wildrider).

===Transitional companies===
Although remarkably rare, some knockoff companies eventually venture into legitimate toy design territory. One such example is Trendmasters, which started out (arguably) as a knockoff manufacturer before eventually legally securing the ''{{w|Voltron}}'' license. Happy Well has also shifted its focus from knockoffs to original Transforming robots in their Roadbots, X-Bot and V-Create lines.

Another such company was Korean knockoff manufacturer Academy. Academy is known for releasing the Overlord knockoff with Star Saber's head as well as the huge, up-sized ''Gundam'' Cloth MK-II. In the world of plastic scale models, they were also known for producing low-quality knockoffs of Japanese manufacturer Tamiya's kits with copied box art. Academy has since gone legit, legally acquiring such licenses as ''Gundam'', ''Naruto'', ''Tom and Jerry'', and ''Zoids''.<ref>[http://www.academy.co.kr/5c/5c_main.asp Character products page] at academy.co.kr</ref>

Perhaps the most baffling example might be Simba Dickie, a popular German toy manufacturer (perhaps best known for being the parent company of notorious railway model manufacturer Märklin), that once released various knockoffs of Jumpstarters and oversized Mini-Cons under their 2007 "''Planet Fighter''" series of assorted budget toys. Bizarrely enough, not even a decade later, they would go on to actually produce official Transformers merchandise for Hasbro, [[Optimus Prime (WFC)/toys#Dickie Toys|starting with die cast and remote controlled cars]] for ''Robots in Disguise'' and later expanding towards die cast figurines for ''The Last Knight'' and ''Bumblebee''.

==Law and copyright infringement==
===Legal analysis of knockoffs===
Despite myths to the contrary, most ''Transformers'' knockoffs are illegal. In ''HASBRO BRADLEY, INC. v. SPARKLE TOYS, INC.'', 780 F.2d 189 (2nd Cir. 1985), the Second Circuit granted an injunction on Sparkle Toys' [[Jumpstarter]] knockoffs, where Hasbro showed a likelihood of success for infringement of their copyright in the Jumpstarters toys.<ref name="sparkle">[http://www.law.cornell.edu/copyright/cases/780_F2d_189.htm HASBRO BRADLEY, INC. v. SPARKLE TOYS, INC.] at the Legal Information Institute</ref> For those not law literate, this basically means that (A) Hasbro held a valid [[copyright]] in the Jumpstarters, and (B) Hasbro had a strong enough case that this would have gone to a jury, which would ultimately decide whether there was infringement.

[[File:DOTM.MIRAGEKO.jpg|right|upright=1.00|thumb|Were you fooled by this in 2011? Don't be shy, we were [[Misconceptions and urban legends about Transformers|fooled too]].]]Although Hasbro and Takara's design patents on ''Transformers'' toys expire after 14 years from issuance, their copyright in ''Transformers'' toys lasts for 95 years from publication, i.e., sale to the public. Thus, while the design patents on some ''Transformers'' toys have expired, the copyright protection on all ''Transformers'' toys is still in effect. For useful articles, such as a reconfigurable toy, copyright protects only those expressive elements that are separable from the function. While a transformation is probably not protectable because it is functional, the overall look of the robot or alternate mode is protectable. Thus, while a heavily retooled knockoff that only retains the [[transformation]] of the original toy may avoid infringement, a toy that is only resized or is only painted in different colors would infringe on Hasbro and Takara's copyright regardless of the slight modification.

In a second case, ''WALES INDUS. INC. v. HASBRO BRADLEY, INC.'', 612 F.Supp. 510 (1985), Wales Industrial attempted legal steps ''against Hasbro'' to ''stop them from taking legal steps against Wales'' for selling knockoffs of Hasbro's ''Transformers'' toys, arguing that Hasbro was not the copyright holder, but merely a licensee, and the original Takara versions of the toys were lacking copyright stamps, thus making the toys fall into public domain. The court shot down the case by declaring that through their contract with [[TakaraTomy|Takara]], Hasbro was legally authorized to represent them as copyright holder; the lack of copyright stamps on Japanese releases of the toys was irrelevant due to different domestic laws, as what mattered was that the toys had copyright stamps when they were released to the United States market; and Wales Industrial had even acted in full knowledge of a potential copyright conflict by having their knockoff toys slightly modified as to not be exact carbon copies of Hasbro's versions.<ref name="wales1">[https://casetext.com/case/wales-indus-inc-v-hasbro-bradley-inc-2 WALES INDUS. INC. v. HASBRO BRADLEY, INC.] and [https://casetext.com/case/wales-indus-inc-v-hasbro-bradley-inc supplementary item] at Case Text.com.</ref>

===Hasbro's intervention (or lack thereof)===
To date, Hasbro apparently has taken few actions against knockoff manufacturers. Only the above cases of Hasbro shutting down a ''Transformers'' knockoff operation in the 1980s exist, and no such cases exist from the 1990s onward. Hasbro's ''Transformers'' design director [[Aaron Archer]] was once quoted as making a comment at [[BotCon]] implying that Hasbro was unconcerned with knockoffs.{{fact}} Strangely, Hasbro recently contacted small online toy store AgesThreeAndUp and told them to take down their knockoff listings. At [[BotCon 2008]], [[Greg Lombardo]] read an official Hasbro policy discouraging fans from purchasing knockoffs — even in the main dealer room just a few yards away — and vaguely threatening future legal action against their producers. In May 2008, eBay began taking down auctions for knockoff Transformers (the high end counterfeits in particular), but it's unclear whether this was Hasbro's doing or not.<ref>http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/other-news-20/knockoff-transformers-auctions-being-pulled-from-ebay-165004/</ref>

===Myths about knockoffs===
Over the years, there have been a lot of widespread myths about knockoffs. Perhaps the most preposterous myth is that knockoffs are legal. See the Legal Analysis section above for why this theory is incorrect. Although few proponents of this theory exist, those that do claim vigorously that the presence of knockoffs on Family Dollar or Wal-Mart's shelves means that those products must be legitimate. The flaw in the reasoning here is that it assumes big chain stores would never do anything ignorantly or illegally, which is certainly [http://www.google.com/search?q=walmart+lawsuit not the case].

One long-held myth among fans (due to a general lack of information), is that the Generation 1 ''Transformers'' with Chinese stickers in the corner are high-quality counterfeits. After all, they look just like the original Generation 1 releases, but with some very small differences and oftentimes slightly inferior plastic quality. Recently, though, it's come out that these were, in fact, [[The Transformers (Chinese toyline)|re-releases for the Chinese market produced from 1989 through 1995]], not unlike their Chinese ''[[G.I. Joe (team)|G.I. Joe]]'' counterparts from around the same period. Ironically, high-quality counterfeit Generation 1 toys from China would eventually come out, but it wouldn't be until 2005, a decade later.

Numerous international releases based on licenses [[pre-Transformer#Licensed international releases of pre-Transformers|predating the success of the ''Transformers'' brand]] (some of them available concurrently with their ''Transformers'' counterparts) have also been mistaken for knockoffs. The fact that ''actual'' knockoffs of these figures (and even knockoffs of ''these very licensed versions'') exist doesn't exactly help matters.

==So, are knockoffs worth buying?==
As a final consideration, you might be wondering if purchasing a knockoff figure is actually worth your money or not. Here are some factors you might want to consider:

===Pros===

*Unsurprisingly, knockoffs are generally far cheaper than their official counterparts. This is obviously balanced by the generally lower quality, but there are still some pretty intuitive advantages in getting a copy of a figure for a fraction of its original price, especially in cases where a buyer might not have the money to purchase an official version. This is further substantiated by the few knockoffs that actually do have surprisingly good quality and can easily pass for original collector-grade items, like the aforementioned Generation 1 and Masterpiece counterfeits. In the end, when a rare figure like the 2014 gold version of Masterpiece Megatron can often cost past the 600$ mark on Ebay, getting the mass manufactured reproduction that looks virtually indistinguishable from the original for 60$ might not sound completely unreasonable. Most recently, there has even been an onslaught of fan-oriented KOs designed to not just copy the originals but also to surpass them with improved sculpts and paintjobs, like the repainted and slightly remolded movie figures of WeiJiang.
[[File:AlphaBaseRobot.jpg|right|thumb|Oh, hi. I cost more than a [[Mint in sealed box|MISB]] ''G1'' Overlord. Want to touch me?]]
*Surprisingly enough, some older knockoffs do have collectible value, especially those produced in Taiwan and South Korea during the 1980s. As an example, the pre-transformer version of Shockwave (originally manufactured in grey by Toy Co as a figure called "Astro-Magnum") was the victim of multiple knockoff copies which are now actually more valuable than an original Generation 1 Shockwave. The bizarre Academy version of Overlord is another example in the same vein.

*Some knockoffs might end up providing unique variants of toys that never had an official release. This is pretty obvious when it comes to manufacturers like iGear that deliberately copy and modify molds to specifically appeal to collectors, but similar appraisal can also be found in a few "vulgar" knockoffs. The aforementioned Polyfect downscaled G1 combiners, for example, are often treated by fans as unofficial ''[[Smallest Transforming Transformers]]'' equivalents of their original figures, to the point where some of them have even received third party stickers inspired by their original decals.

*Modifying commonly found knockoffs might be a cheaper, if not perhaps even better alternative, to modifying original figures for [[Customizing|customs]]. While using an official toy can be seen as a sacrifice of sorts, especially if the figure is rare or isn't bought from a junk lot, building your own creation from a cheap reproduction of that mold might be preferable over discarding a genuine valuable Transformer. Dismantling an original Masterpiece Optimus Prime for whatever frankenstein you're trying to create doesn't sound like the most economically viable idea, but doing so with a generic Chinese ripoff labelled as a "''Conversions Metals Car''"<ref>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQOb4j72BCg</ref> might actually be a plausible prospect.

*Likewise, some knockoffs might also be usable as spare part donors for original figures. This is not always feasible since most commonly available KOs do not have the same size and sculpt accuracy of their official counterparts, but when they do, it might as well be a viable process for toy maintenance.

===Cons===

*Per rule, knockoffs are generally far inferior to their original versions. Keep in mind that the previously mentioned WeiJiangs and Masterpieces are only rare exceptions amongst the usual pile of counterfeit junk, the vast majority of KOs you'll find in dollar stores are nowhere near the level of an official Hasbro or Takara product. These are often conceived with the most rudimentar plastic that can be shunned out at the most affordable rate, with little to no [[quality control]] behind their manufacturing, and in numerous occasions without even featuring any paint operations besides the actual color of the plastic they're molded in. As such, unsurprisingly, not just are knockoffs usually aesthetically unappealing and hardly comparable with their original counterparts on looks and function alone, but they're also often more flimsy and prone to damage than some figures with [[Gold Plastic Syndrome|gold plastic syndrome]].

*As already previously explained, knockoffs are illegally produced copies of Transformers designs. This might not be too much of a detractor for collectors, especially considering how little Hasbro and Takara themselves seem to care about modern knockoffs, but it does imply that, by purchasing a fake figure over a genuine one, you are not monetarily contributing to the team that actually designed and engineered that original figure. This might be seen as a refutable point by arguing that the Transformers series, being a multi-billion dollar franchise, probably isn't suffering any significant economical losses as a result of knockoffs, but still, if you assume a Kantian approach to ethics, you might find it unethical to purchase them: the categorical imperative implies that, if everyone bought counterfeits instead of original figures, then it would become nonviable for Hasbro and Takara to produce any original figures in the first place. Still, you might be a consequentialist instead, in which case we can't really blame you.

*Most modern knockoffs, even the highly accurate Masterpieces and Generation 1 reproductions, are also inevitably bound to have little to no resale value in the near future. The older 1980s KOs became valuable precisely because of how limited they were, with the very few that were around directly trying to compete with Hasbro, but alas, contemporary knockoffs have almost formed an entire parallel market of their own that Hasbro doesn't seem to particularly care about. As for the cheaper dollar store ones, it might be needless to say that the resale value for a flimsy oversized Legends class figure will probably never be all that great in the first place. Furthermore, in conjunction with the previous point, reselling them is also theoretically illegal.

*At last, while legality or quality are hardly detractors for most consumers, you might want to seriously consider the manufacturing backgrounds of most of these figures. Keep in mind that the working conditions in China, where the predominant amount of knockoffs come from, are easily amongst the most miserable and inhumane for modern developed economies, to the point where some manufacturers like the aforementioned Citi Toys have even been investigated for accusations of child labor. The Chinese government does attempt to enforce several rigorous labor laws, but alas, the minimum wage for most undeveloped regions is still incredibly low and therefore, if even massive multinational corporations like Nike and Apple have been strongly criticized for their labor practices in China, it seems fair to assume that the schedules and wages demanded for illegal counterfeit products are probably even more immoral and inhumane. Once again, this does not necessarily apply to every single manufacturer, but if you're buying a legally shady product then it might very likely also have a legally shady manufacturing process behind it.

==In fiction==
===IDW Generation 1 continuity===
"Knockoff" was considered an offensive epithet against Transformers who were [[Reproduction#IDW Generation 1 continuity|"constructed cold."]] {{storylink|Remain in Light 1 of 5: The Fecund Moon|The Fecund Moon}}

===''Age of Extinction'' film===
After defeating [[Stinger (AOE)|Stinger]], [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]] smugly referred to his defeated doppelganger as a "cheap knockoff." {{storylink|Transformers: Age of Extinction (film)|Age of Extinction}}

==External links==
*[http://highendtfs.com/?q=node/17 HighEndTFs' ID Guide for high quality counterfeit Generation 1 Transformers]
*[http://www.actionfigurechecklist.com/Images/Album/index.php?v=list&i=0&p=Transformers_KnockOff_KO Action Figure Checklist's Transformer Knock-Off Photo Album]
*[http://www.reocities.com/TelevisionCity/3230/tfother.html All Things Transformers - Other Transforming Toys]
*[http://www22.pos.to/~butto/ttot.html Butto's Other Transforming Toys (Japanese)]
*[http://www.netlaputa.ne.jp/~m-akao/GALLERY/fakehp.html Fake Toy Gallery (Japanese)]
*[http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/listing/user/bootlegs Hatch's Bootleg Transformers]
*[http://www.geocities.ws/kidk0rrupt/ Kid K0rrupt's Bootleg Gallery]
*[http://www.builtstlouis.net/tf/mmkos/index.html Rob's Pile of Transformers: Micromaster Knockoffs]
*[http://www.tfarchive.com/toys/gallery.php?g2_itemId=7302 TFArchive.com's Bootleg Gallery]
*[http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-3rd-party-discussion/191817-knock-off-transformers-thread.html TFW2005 Ongoing Knock-Off Transformers Thread]
*[http://www.toyarchive.com/Transformers/Knockoffs/Genertaion1KnockOffs.html Toyarchive.com's Gallery of Generation 1 Knockoffs]
*[http://zobovor.20megsfree.com/knockoffs_archive.html Zobovor's Knockoff Toys Archive (text)]
*[http://pleasesavemerobots.com/scrambledcity/skorbia/index.html SKORBIA-Crazysteve's South Korean Bootleg Information Archive]

==Footnotes==
<references />

[[Category:Toys]]

Knockoff

2019-01-26T22:30:11Z

Puppetroblox:

[[File:Bootleg.jpg|right|273px|thumb|Super Combination Robot B/O 17-in-1. One just sold for $350 on eBay. Feel free to throw up in your mouth a little.]]
A '''knockoff''' is a product similar or identical to a product of one company, but made by another without the authorization of the original maker. Abates and Cyberpunk are fucking knockoffs who sex with each other.

{{bigquote|I hate cheap knockoffs.|[[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]], ''[[Transformers: Age of Extinction (film)|Transformers: Age of Extinction]]''}}

==What's a knockoff?==
Not all transforming robots from makers other than [[Hasbro]], [[TakaraTomy]], [[Bandai]], or other major toy makers are knockoffs, but those toys which wholly or partly duplicate pre-existing designs are well-qualified for the term. The term is also applied by fans, however, to some robots whose design was entirely original with the manufacturer, if said manufacturer is commonly associated with knockoffs, or if this maker's products are often sold in company with knockoffs. Original designs based on Hasbro characters, commonly referred to as "third party toys", have their own page under "[[IP infringing item]]".

Whether an original design, modified, or slavishly copied, knockoffs are often cheaper than the products of major toymakers. However, the quality of knockoffs is often poorer than that of the originals, including bad plastic quality, bad sticker application, and bad paint applications. Odd colors, excess chrome, resizings, and modifications are common. The world of knockoffs is a strange land of gigantic chromed swords, Gundam/[[Brave (franchise)|Brave]] card art, and wacky packaging translations.

==History of knockoffs==

===Pre-movie knockoffs===
[[File:JBootleg.jpg|right|thumb|On your knees, Jumpstarters! Kneel before your living GOD!]]
Knockoffs were a real problem in the mid-1980s. As the majority of the line came from [[Diaclone]] and [[Micro Change]] toys that had been released in Japan a year or two earlier, Hong Kong bootleggers had plenty of time to copy the molds. Because of this, there were bootlegs on the shelf at the same time as their legitimate Hasbro counterparts. Some bootlegs even preceded their Transformers counterparts like [[Reflector (G1)|Reflector]]. To combat this, the [[rubsign]] was developed, made with a patented technology that was difficult (at that time) to forge. There was also an accompanying TV ad campaign in which Optimus Prime and Megatron stress brand loyalty by stating, "We are the only ones that have the right to wear [ [[Autobot]] & [[Decepticon]] [[Insignia|symbols]]]."

Through most of the 1990s, knockoffs were relatively difficult to find in the West. Many fans had luck finding them at flea markets, hole-in-the-wall non-chain toy stores, or discount stores like {{w|Big! Lots|Big Lots}}. Some knockoff transforming robot toys did show up in chain toy stores, such as the Convert-A-Bots [[Sky Garry (ROC)|Sky Garry]] and Tek Toys ''Voltron'' I—both widely available at Toys R Us—but they were few and far between.

In the 2000s, knockoffs became more accessible. The Kidi Toys gestalt knockoffs were widely available at Family Dollar and [[KB Toys|Kay Bee]] Toy Liquidator stores, and saturated [[eBay]]. Happy Well knockoffs took up shelf space next to Transformers Armada toys at [[Walmart]]. And of course, the realistic counterfeit G1 toys were also widely available on eBay from any number of different sellers.

===High quality Generation 1 counterfeits===
Starting around 2005, high quality Generation 1 knockoffs began to appear on eBay. Originating from a company called Zhong Jin in China, both the packaging and toy of the knockoffs look nearly identical to the original. Unlike normal knockoffs, these sell for remarkably high prices. Since 2005, many counterfeit Generation 1 products have surfaced from Zhong Jin, including Optimus Prime, Minibots, Cassettes, Autobot cars, Devastator, Dinobots, and Gnaw. Zhong Jin also has produced many color and plastic variants of their knockoffs, such as translucent versions, which were never previously released (and some of which that were, like Jafcon Black Optimus Prime). A second knockoff company, Kidi Toys, briefly produced high end G1 knockoffs as well.

The counterfeit Generation 1 toys remain extremely controversial because they are virtually indistinguishable from the originals. This situation raises concerns about unscrupulous dealers selling bootlegs as genuine articles and scrupulous ones unknowingly doing the same. It's also a further infringement on Hasbro's intellectual property rights, since these fakes infringe not only the copyrights on the toys, but also the trademarks on the packaging.

Counterfeit Generation 1 parts, stickers, and boxes have appeared from Zhong Jin as well, including many that have not had a corresponding whole knockoff released, including [[Soundwave (G1)/toys|Soundwave]] boxes and [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]] sticker sheets.

The counterfeit Generation 1 toys are often confused with the legitimate [[The Transformers (Chinese toyline)|Hasbro-made re-releases for the Chinese market produced from 1989 through 1995]].

===Post-movie knockoffs===
[[File:TFA Prime KO.jpg|left|upright=0.85|thumb|Hey, I'm not the knockoff, [[Optimus Prime (Animated)/toys|he]] is!]]
Since the release of the [[Transformers (film)|2007 ''Transformers'' movie]], a flood of bootlegged figures entered the market, with some movie line figure knockoffs appearing within a month of the official product's debut. The figures ranged from high-quality clones to ''very'' low-quality copies and strange variations, such as random Generation 1 figures being redone in movie paint decos (usually [[Optimus Prime (Movie)/toys|Optimus Prime]]'s flame scheme or [[Bumblebee (Movie)/toys|Bumblebee's]] yellow with black stripes).

One notable release was a knockoff of ''[[Transformers Animated (toyline)|Transformers Animated]]'' Voyager Class Earth mode [[Optimus Prime (Animated)/toys|Optimus Prime]], which came out in China several weeks ''before'' the release of the original in the United States! The reason this occurred is that Hasbro shelved their already-manufactured ''Animated'' toys for several months in order to extend selling their popular movie line. Thus, finished ''Animated'' toys were able to leak out of factories and into the hands of bootleggers long before they were to finally be released.

With the release of the 2009 [[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (toyline)|''Revenge of the Fallen'' movie line]] various knockoff toys also emerged. These included oversized versions of the new Scout class sculpts, redecoes of new Deluxe sculpts and sculpts from other lines redecoed to more closely resemble new characters (for instance the ''Animated'' Deluxe Class [[Bumblebee (Animated)|Bumblebee]] sculpt recolored to look like [[Skids (ROTF)|Skids]], complete with door detailing).

A newer twist in the knockoff toys saga is companies creating high quality knockoffs aimed specifically at collectors. These include the "KOLD" ("Knock Off Lucky Draw") bootlegs sold through kotoys.com, which attempt to imitate [[Lucky Draw figure|Lucky Draw]] and other rare Transformers. There have also been high quality knockoffs of ''[[Transformers: Classics|Classics]]'' [[Starscream (G1)/toys#Classics (2006)|Starscream]] and the [[Seeker (body-type)|Seekers]] in their ''[[Henkei! Henkei! Transformers (toyline)|Henkei]]'' decos (plus other redecos such as [[Sunstorm (G1)#Machine Wars|Sunstorm]] and the generic "[[Air Warrior]]s", who who didn't get an official release from this sculpt until [[BotCon 2013|much later]]), as well as ''Classics''/''Henkei'' [[Mirage (G1)#Classics 2|Mirage]] in several of his rarer color schemes. However, the "high quality" part often turned out to be in concept only, with the execution failing to live up to the promise.

Knock offs of the ''[[Transformers Device Label|Device Label]]'' computer accessories, in particular the [[Ravage (G1)/toys#Device Label|Ravage flash drive]] and its redecoes, have also been spotted online. In a frightening example of how bad knock offs can be, the fake drives outnumber the real ones on a number of sites, and many have been reported as containing malware in addition to an equally bootlegged copy of the "desktop pet" software from the real ones. Who actually manufactures them can be difficult to discern, since they tend to come loose-packed without any manufacturing marks.

[[File:KO AOE Optimus Prime.jpg|right|Now this would be hard to tell without scale references wouldn't it?|upright=1.25|thumb]]

A rather sneaky, as well as persistent, knockoff of ''Revenge of the Fallen'' [[Legends Class (2005)|Legends Class]] [[Devastator (ROTF)#Legends Class toys|Constructicon Devastator]] has reportedly fooled many a fan, coming in a replica of the Hasbro packaging but sporting the additional red paint operations for the head of TakaraTomy's release. Several years later, it reappeared in the deco of TakaraTomy's ''[[Movie Advanced Series]]'' version, and eventually ditched the ''Revenge of the Fallen'' packaging in favor of a very deceptive variation of the packaging for TakaraTomy's ''[[Movie Advanced Series]]'' version, with all the additional Japanese texts of the genuine version being omitted and several graphics, logos and other elements (such as "Google Play" and "App Store" buttons) commonly found on official Hasbro packaging added.

Following the launch of the ''[[Transformers: Dark of the Moon (toyline)|Dark of the Moon]]'' line, reports of knockoff [[Mirage (Movie)|Mirage]] seen in alleged ''Dark of the Moon'' packaging with [[MechTech]] weapons appeared many, many months before [[Mirage (Movie)#Cyberverse|any actual Mirage]] ever hit the shelves. It was, however, a cleverly retooled and enlarged knockoff of Legends Class [[Barricade (Movie)/toys#Legends Class toys|Barricade]] released alongside equally upsized versions of ''Movie'' Legends Class Optimus Prime, Bumblebee and a mostly unaltered version of Barricade himself. The packaging design was styled after the ''Dark of the Moon'' look down to use of the "MechTech" logo, but changing the name of the "line" from ''Transformers: Dark of the Moon'' to "Distortion Android: The New Deformation Robot Movie 3", with the figures themselves sporting "creative" names such as "Super Racing", "Justice Leader", "Justice Warrior" and "Evil Demons". Nearly two years later, knockoffs of Voyager Class Optimus Prime and Deluxe Class Bumblebee began to show up in China as well.

Knockoffs of ''[[Transformers: Age of Extinction (toyline)|Age of Extinction]]'' figures included [[Optimus Prime (Movie)/toys#First Edition toys|"First Edition" Optimus Prime]] downscaled to Voyager size, with an additional "variant" that swapped out the red and blue colors. Yet another Bumblebee knockoff, as well as several other unidentifiable "Transformers", showed up as well. As is often the case, the packaging imitated the font used for the real thing, only having the words altered.

===High quality Masterpiece knock-offs===

Starting in 2012, the ''[[The Transformers: Masterpiece|Masterpiece]]'' line has became noted for inspiring large numbers of high quality, nearly indiscernible knockoffs (the [[Sideswipe (G1)/toys#Masterpiece|MP-12 Lambor]] sculpt being the first and therefore one of the more notorious examples). Many such knockoffs look identical to their original counterparts at first sight and can only be distinguished by the quality of the box graphics (especially the gradient in the background and the lighter black color), slight sculpting differences, and rare differently colored [[paint operation]]s. Many theories have been proposed as to where they came from, from being cleverly reverse-engineered, to (the most popularly suggested) factory rejects being found and sold. Fortunately, there are numerous reviewers and websites dedicated to pointing out the differences.

==Manufacturing and distribution==
[[File:SENDTHEBOOKS.jpg|left|thumb|SEND THE BOOKS!]]
===Countries that produce or once produced knockoffs===
Most knockoffs originate outside of North America and Europe. Although most knockoff-producing countries have joined the Berne Convention and have thus obligated themselves to protect the copyrights of other countries, lax enforcement has allowed manufacturers in many foreign countries, such as China, to continue to produce knockoffs. However, manufacturers in other countries like South Korea, which was once a huge source of knockoff ''Transformers'', have in the last decade made efforts to legitimize themselves by buying the rights to produce official Korean versions of the toys they had long been copying.

* [[China]] — The main source of the world's Transformers knockoffs and notorious for their use of gigantic blister cards. Although they are typically low quality, such as the combiner gift sets produced by Kidi Toys, it is also the home of Playcenter, the high quality counterfeit Generation 1 toy manufacturer. China has signed the Berne Convention obligating them to protect foreign copyrights, and has enacted legislation to do so, but their enforcement remains at a pitifully weak level. China is currently the main source of the world's Transformers knockoffs.

* [[South Korea]] — Was once a hotbed of Transformers knockoff activity. It was not uncommon in South Korea for there to even be animated series, like ''[[Inferno (G1)|Phoenix King]]'', that incorporated multiple knocked-off properties, such as [[Reflector (G1)|Reflector]] fighting a Gundam or any other number of famous characters. Hilariously, "Gundam" was so embedded in the South Korean public psyche as a synonym for "giant robot" via these different bootleg outlets that the ''Gundam'' property owner Sunrise's attempts to [[trademark]] the word were entirely rejected by the courts.<ref>[http://www.comipress.com/article/2006/10/28/938 "Gundam and Giant Robots in South Korea"]</ref> Some Korean knockoff manufacturers took great liberties with Transformers molds, such as significantly increasing their size,<ref>[http://www.pleasesavemerobots.com/scrambledcity/skorbia/skorbydestrong.html South Korean Combatron / Combaticon bootlegs] at Skorbia</ref> and/or retooling their [[alternate mode]]s to resemble completely different vehicles.<ref>[http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=17850203&uid=5138952] ''(dead link)''</ref> South Korea is known for such knockoffs as oversized Combaticons, Overlord with Starsaber's face, multiple Power Master Optimus cab knockoffs, and the white Oversized ''Generation 2'' Optimus Prime (the legitimacy of which has been debated). Since the mid-/late-1990s, South Korea has begun enforcing foreign copyrights and is no longer a major source of knockoff Transformers toys.

* Taiwan — Known for knockoffs with a lot of English text on them and higher quality than Chinese knockoffs. Many Taiwanese knockoffs found their way into Italy in the 1980s and 1990s and can often be spotted on Italian eBay. [[GiG]], the official ''Transformers'' licensee in Italy, even imported a Taiwanese knockoff [[Shockwave (G1)/toys|Shockwave]]. Like South Korea, Taiwan is no longer a major source of knockoffs.

===Knockoff companies===
Certain knockoff companies have become notable over the years for one reason or another:

* Four Star - Known during the 1980s for taking any number of ''[[Diaclone]]''-descendant [[The Transformers (toyline)|Generation 1 molds]] and making massive [[retool]]s of them, usually changing 75% of the mold or more. They are especially known for "Mr. Hardhat", a [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]] imitation that is made up of six entirely changed [[Constructicon (G1)|Constructicons]] that combine in an entirely different way.<ref>[http://toys.tfw2005.com/mr-hard-hat-four-star-combiner-4967 Mr Hard Hat gallery] on TFW2005</ref> The fully combined form uses [[Jetfire (G1)|Jetfire]]'s head, and weapons for the smaller robots included unchromed grey versions of Starscream's launchers (non-firing), Mirage missiles, retooled Soundwave missiles, and the three Omnibot guns. Despite only being known to exist during the '80s, previously unknown Four Star bootlegs seem to appear every few years, bringing into question exactly how many figures they retooled and how these figures were distributed to stay hidden for so long.

* Tek Toys - A North American company that appeared in the early to mid-1990s and did business almost exclusively through Toys "R" Us. They pioneered the combination card/windowless box design used by many, many bootlegs to this day. Tek Toys also used a distinctively plain graphics style on their packaging, eschewing the usual random ''Gundam'' and Generation 1 graphics for new airbrushed art or, surprising for a knockoff company, CGI models, almost always against a plain white background. Tek Toys also worked in extremes, either having recolored copies of existing figures or all new original figures that may or may not have been procured from smaller Asian companies (oftentimes Leader Shine). In a bold move, Tek Toys had their office address printed on later boxes. Their new box graphics are still recycled by other knockoff companies to this day.

* Leader Shine (AKA Champion Crown) - Known during the 1990s for bootlegging the living hell out of the [[Jumpstarter]] molds, producing clones, minor retools, major retools, and almost unrecognizable retools. They also produce "original" toys whose transformation schemes are derived from either ''Transformers'', the ''Brave'' series, or ''Power Rangers''. They still release new and varied Jumpstarters to this day. Leader Shine is also responsible for the very ''[[Godzilla]]''-themed knockoff of [[Grimlock (G1)/toys|Grimlock]] that reappears every few years. They also have an amusing habit of putting "Pat. P." (Patent Pending) on almost all of their packages in spite of whether their product is a direct copy or completely changed. However under the trade names "Leader Shine" and "Champion Crown" there are no patents held.

* Happy Well - One of the most prominent knockoff companies from the mid-2000s, Happy Well was bold enough to strike a contract with [[Walmart]], CVS Pharmacies, and Walgreens, making them possibly the first company to have a knockoff "name brand", namely the "Galaxy Defender" series. Happy Well uses relatively high-quality materials, and most of their products are boxed. Some even come with sticker sheets and [[die-cast]] parts. They have since created their own properties and shy away from bootlegs. Their "Roadbots" line was the only direct competitor to the ''[[Transformers: Alternators|Alternators]]'' line of licensed scale transforming cars.

* Zhong Jin, aka Playcenter<ref>Zhong Jin/Playcenter was first identified as the manufacturer of the knockoffs in September 2007, when fans noticed pictures of most of the current counterfeit G1 knockoffs on their [http://web.archive.org/web/20080329180144/http://china.alibaba.com/company/detail/playcenter.html Alibaba supplier website], including then-upcoming counterfeits like Warpath. Apparently aware of this, Zhong Jin took down images of all their counterfeit Transformers from the website in October or November.</ref> - The first and primary manufacturer of the high-quality counterfeit Generation 1 knockoffs. Zhong Jin has been making their counterfeit Transformers since 2005, starting with [[Beachcomber (G1)|Beachcomber]], but in 2007 began greatly increasing their range of counterfeit Generation 1 knockoffs, which now includes at least 47 different G1 Transformers, filling in many of the gaps left by the official reissues. They have also done many plastic/paint variants of their knockoffs, including many clear plastic versions.

* Kidi Toys<ref>[http://www.toysghost.cn Kidi Toys' web site]</ref> - Perhaps best known as the manufacturer of the many low-quality Generation 1 gestalt gift sets. Following Zhong Jin's lead, they briefly produced a couple realistic counterfeit Generation 1 knockoffs ([[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]], [[Metrotitan (Zone)|Metrotitan]], and [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]]). Among their other notable knockoffs are [[Transformers: Alternators|Alternator]] figures with new or copied paint schemes of reasonable quality. They are the knockoff company responsible for the infamous fake Metroplex Encore Reissues, which deceived major online Transformers stores.<ref>http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-toy-discussion/199973-what-heck-encore-12-metroplex-i-got-tfsource-fake.html</ref>

* Citi Toys - Based in Thailand, the same company that was producing toys for McDonald's Happy Meals was also producing knockoffs of transforming robots in the late 1990s, albeit mostly ''Brave'' and ''Power Rangers''. After news leaked out that they used child labor, new knockoffs with their "CT" logo stopped appearing, which suggests that the child labor scandal caused them to shut down.

* Agglo - A Hong Kong based company that has produced numerous Transformers knockoffs over the years. Their products have ranged from knockoffs of Generation 1 figures, to ''Beast Wars'' and Japanese Beast Wars characters and even ''Robot Masters'' and ''Generation 2'' Cyberjets. They are notable for giving their lines rather long names, one of their Beast Wars KO lines being "Space Warriors Transformable Beast Tech Fighter". They are one of the primary suppliers to the American ''Big Lots!'' stores and generally use their toy molds until they are virtually destroyed, as evidenced by their bootlegs of a number of Leader Shine products which have been retooled to have fewer and fewer parts as time goes by.

* iGear - A more high end producer of down-sized and retooled knockoffs of Masterpiece Transformers toys, particularly the [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys|Optimus Prime]] and [[Starscream (G1)/toys|Starscream]] molds, usually costing as much as the original full sized toys themselves. They have slowly transitioned into creating original molds, producing original designs such as [[Ironhide (G1)/toys|Weapons Specialist]] and [[Huffer (G1)|Rager]]. Unlike the others listed here, iGear products can't be found on western store shelves and are known for their online presence.

* CHMS - Mostly specializing in knocking off the Classics [[Seeker (body-type)|Seeker]] mold in any number of colors and varieties, CHMS appeared roughly around 2008 and tend to copy not only the toy but the entire style of packaging as well, usually of the Henkei exclusive variety. Like iGear, they are known to western consumers mainly through the internet.[[File:TrendmastersMasterbotix.jpg|right|thumb|AND I'LL FORM THE HE—oh, wait.]]

* Polyfect Toys - A company based in Quangdong, China, who are notorious for slightly-downscaled G1 and Micromaster combiner teams and downscaled Brave figures under their "Super Change" and "Quick Change" brands of KO robots. Their products are common in Family Dollar, Tuesday Morning, and Big Lots among other stores. They often retool and simplify molds to keep manufacturing costs down. They often package items on large blister cards with plagiarized artwork and random nonsensical English phrases, such as "FREIGHTERPAN" to refer to their KO Menasor (which, by the way, includes Nosecone and Afterburner instead of Dead End and Wildrider).

===Transitional companies===
Although remarkably rare, some knockoff companies eventually venture into legitimate toy design territory. One such example is Trendmasters, which started out (arguably) as a knockoff manufacturer before eventually legally securing the ''{{w|Voltron}}'' license. Happy Well has also shifted its focus from knockoffs to original Transforming robots in their Roadbots, X-Bot and V-Create lines.

Another such company was Korean knockoff manufacturer Academy. Academy is known for releasing the Overlord knockoff with Star Saber's head as well as the huge, up-sized ''Gundam'' Cloth MK-II. In the world of plastic scale models, they were also known for producing low-quality knockoffs of Japanese manufacturer Tamiya's kits with copied box art. Academy has since gone legit, legally acquiring such licenses as ''Gundam'', ''Naruto'', ''Tom and Jerry'', and ''Zoids''.<ref>[http://www.academy.co.kr/5c/5c_main.asp Character products page] at academy.co.kr</ref>

Perhaps the most baffling example might be Simba Dickie, a popular German toy manufacturer (perhaps best known for being the parent company of notorious railway model manufacturer Märklin), that once released various knockoffs of Jumpstarters and oversized Mini-Cons under their 2007 "''Planet Fighter''" series of assorted budget toys. Bizarrely enough, not even a decade later, they would go on to actually produce official Transformers merchandise for Hasbro, [[Optimus Prime (WFC)/toys#Dickie Toys|starting with die cast and remote controlled cars]] for ''Robots in Disguise'' and later expanding towards die cast figurines for ''The Last Knight'' and ''Bumblebee''.

==Law and copyright infringement==
===Legal analysis of knockoffs===
Despite myths to the contrary, most ''Transformers'' knockoffs are illegal. In ''HASBRO BRADLEY, INC. v. SPARKLE TOYS, INC.'', 780 F.2d 189 (2nd Cir. 1985), the Second Circuit granted an injunction on Sparkle Toys' [[Jumpstarter]] knockoffs, where Hasbro showed a likelihood of success for infringement of their copyright in the Jumpstarters toys.<ref name="sparkle">[http://www.law.cornell.edu/copyright/cases/780_F2d_189.htm HASBRO BRADLEY, INC. v. SPARKLE TOYS, INC.] at the Legal Information Institute</ref> For those not law literate, this basically means that (A) Hasbro held a valid [[copyright]] in the Jumpstarters, and (B) Hasbro had a strong enough case that this would have gone to a jury, which would ultimately decide whether there was infringement.

[[File:DOTM.MIRAGEKO.jpg|right|upright=1.00|thumb|Were you fooled by this in 2011? Don't be shy, we were [[Misconceptions and urban legends about Transformers|fooled too]].]]Although Hasbro and Takara's design patents on ''Transformers'' toys expire after 14 years from issuance, their copyright in ''Transformers'' toys lasts for 95 years from publication, i.e., sale to the public. Thus, while the design patents on some ''Transformers'' toys have expired, the copyright protection on all ''Transformers'' toys is still in effect. For useful articles, such as a reconfigurable toy, copyright protects only those expressive elements that are separable from the function. While a transformation is probably not protectable because it is functional, the overall look of the robot or alternate mode is protectable. Thus, while a heavily retooled knockoff that only retains the [[transformation]] of the original toy may avoid infringement, a toy that is only resized or is only painted in different colors would infringe on Hasbro and Takara's copyright regardless of the slight modification.

In a second case, ''WALES INDUS. INC. v. HASBRO BRADLEY, INC.'', 612 F.Supp. 510 (1985), Wales Industrial attempted legal steps ''against Hasbro'' to ''stop them from taking legal steps against Wales'' for selling knockoffs of Hasbro's ''Transformers'' toys, arguing that Hasbro was not the copyright holder, but merely a licensee, and the original Takara versions of the toys were lacking copyright stamps, thus making the toys fall into public domain. The court shot down the case by declaring that through their contract with [[TakaraTomy|Takara]], Hasbro was legally authorized to represent them as copyright holder; the lack of copyright stamps on Japanese releases of the toys was irrelevant due to different domestic laws, as what mattered was that the toys had copyright stamps when they were released to the United States market; and Wales Industrial had even acted in full knowledge of a potential copyright conflict by having their knockoff toys slightly modified as to not be exact carbon copies of Hasbro's versions.<ref name="wales1">[https://casetext.com/case/wales-indus-inc-v-hasbro-bradley-inc-2 WALES INDUS. INC. v. HASBRO BRADLEY, INC.] and [https://casetext.com/case/wales-indus-inc-v-hasbro-bradley-inc supplementary item] at Case Text.com.</ref>

===Hasbro's intervention (or lack thereof)===
To date, Hasbro apparently has taken few actions against knockoff manufacturers. Only the above cases of Hasbro shutting down a ''Transformers'' knockoff operation in the 1980s exist, and no such cases exist from the 1990s onward. Hasbro's ''Transformers'' design director [[Aaron Archer]] was once quoted as making a comment at [[BotCon]] implying that Hasbro was unconcerned with knockoffs.{{fact}} Strangely, Hasbro recently contacted small online toy store AgesThreeAndUp and told them to take down their knockoff listings. At [[BotCon 2008]], [[Greg Lombardo]] read an official Hasbro policy discouraging fans from purchasing knockoffs — even in the main dealer room just a few yards away — and vaguely threatening future legal action against their producers. In May 2008, eBay began taking down auctions for knockoff Transformers (the high end counterfeits in particular), but it's unclear whether this was Hasbro's doing or not.<ref>http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/other-news-20/knockoff-transformers-auctions-being-pulled-from-ebay-165004/</ref>

===Myths about knockoffs===
Over the years, there have been a lot of widespread myths about knockoffs. Perhaps the most preposterous myth is that knockoffs are legal. See the Legal Analysis section above for why this theory is incorrect. Although few proponents of this theory exist, those that do claim vigorously that the presence of knockoffs on Family Dollar or Wal-Mart's shelves means that those products must be legitimate. The flaw in the reasoning here is that it assumes big chain stores would never do anything ignorantly or illegally, which is certainly [http://www.google.com/search?q=walmart+lawsuit not the case].

One long-held myth among fans (due to a general lack of information), is that the Generation 1 ''Transformers'' with Chinese stickers in the corner are high-quality counterfeits. After all, they look just like the original Generation 1 releases, but with some very small differences and oftentimes slightly inferior plastic quality. Recently, though, it's come out that these were, in fact, [[The Transformers (Chinese toyline)|re-releases for the Chinese market produced from 1989 through 1995]], not unlike their Chinese ''[[G.I. Joe (team)|G.I. Joe]]'' counterparts from around the same period. Ironically, high-quality counterfeit Generation 1 toys from China would eventually come out, but it wouldn't be until 2005, a decade later.

Numerous international releases based on licenses [[pre-Transformer#Licensed international releases of pre-Transformers|predating the success of the ''Transformers'' brand]] (some of them available concurrently with their ''Transformers'' counterparts) have also been mistaken for knockoffs. The fact that ''actual'' knockoffs of these figures (and even knockoffs of ''these very licensed versions'') exist doesn't exactly help matters.

==So, are knockoffs worth buying?==
As a final consideration, you might be wondering if purchasing a knockoff figure is actually worth your money or not. Here are some factors you might want to consider:

===Pros===

*Unsurprisingly, knockoffs are generally far cheaper than their official counterparts. This is obviously balanced by the generally lower quality, but there are still some pretty intuitive advantages in getting a copy of a figure for a fraction of its original price, especially in cases where a buyer might not have the money to purchase an official version. This is further substantiated by the few knockoffs that actually do have surprisingly good quality and can easily pass for original collector-grade items, like the aforementioned Generation 1 and Masterpiece counterfeits. In the end, when a rare figure like the 2014 gold version of Masterpiece Megatron can often cost past the 600$ mark on Ebay, getting the mass manufactured reproduction that looks virtually indistinguishable from the original for 60$ might not sound completely unreasonable. Most recently, there has even been an onslaught of fan-oriented KOs designed to not just copy the originals but also to surpass them with improved sculpts and paintjobs, like the repainted and slightly remolded movie figures of WeiJiang.
[[File:AlphaBaseRobot.jpg|right|thumb|Oh, hi. I cost more than a [[Mint in sealed box|MISB]] ''G1'' Overlord. Want to touch me?]]
*Surprisingly enough, some older knockoffs do have collectible value, especially those produced in Taiwan and South Korea during the 1980s. As an example, the pre-transformer version of Shockwave (originally manufactured in grey by Toy Co as a figure called "Astro-Magnum") was the victim of multiple knockoff copies which are now actually more valuable than an original Generation 1 Shockwave. The bizarre Academy version of Overlord is another example in the same vein.

*Some knockoffs might end up providing unique variants of toys that never had an official release. This is pretty obvious when it comes to manufacturers like iGear that deliberately copy and modify molds to specifically appeal to collectors, but similar appraisal can also be found in a few "vulgar" knockoffs. The aforementioned Polyfect downscaled G1 combiners, for example, are often treated by fans as unofficial ''[[Smallest Transforming Transformers]]'' equivalents of their original figures, to the point where some of them have even received third party stickers inspired by their original decals.

*Modifying commonly found knockoffs might be a cheaper, if not perhaps even better alternative, to modifying original figures for [[Customizing|customs]]. While using an official toy can be seen as a sacrifice of sorts, especially if the figure is rare or isn't bought from a junk lot, building your own creation from a cheap reproduction of that mold might be preferable over discarding a genuine valuable Transformer. Dismantling an original Masterpiece Optimus Prime for whatever frankenstein you're trying to create doesn't sound like the most economically viable idea, but doing so with a generic Chinese ripoff labelled as a "''Conversions Metals Car''"<ref>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQOb4j72BCg</ref> might actually be a plausible prospect.

*Likewise, some knockoffs might also be usable as spare part donors for original figures. This is not always feasible since most commonly available KOs do not have the same size and sculpt accuracy of their official counterparts, but when they do, it might as well be a viable process for toy maintenance.

===Cons===

*Per rule, knockoffs are generally far inferior to their original versions. Keep in mind that the previously mentioned WeiJiangs and Masterpieces are only rare exceptions amongst the usual pile of counterfeit junk, the vast majority of KOs you'll find in dollar stores are nowhere near the level of an official Hasbro or Takara product. These are often conceived with the most rudimentar plastic that can be shunned out at the most affordable rate, with little to no [[quality control]] behind their manufacturing, and in numerous occasions without even featuring any paint operations besides the actual color of the plastic they're molded in. As such, unsurprisingly, not just are knockoffs usually aesthetically unappealing and hardly comparable with their original counterparts on looks and function alone, but they're also often more flimsy and prone to damage than some figures with [[Gold Plastic Syndrome|gold plastic syndrome]].

*As already previously explained, knockoffs are illegally produced copies of Transformers designs. This might not be too much of a detractor for collectors, especially considering how little Hasbro and Takara themselves seem to care about modern knockoffs, but it does imply that, by purchasing a fake figure over a genuine one, you are not monetarily contributing to the team that actually designed and engineered that original figure. This might be seen as a refutable point by arguing that the Transformers series, being a multi-billion dollar franchise, probably isn't suffering any significant economical losses as a result of knockoffs, but still, if you assume a Kantian approach to ethics, you might find it unethical to purchase them: the categorical imperative implies that, if everyone bought counterfeits instead of original figures, then it would become nonviable for Hasbro and Takara to produce any original figures in the first place. Still, you might be a consequentialist instead, in which case we can't really blame you.

*Most modern knockoffs, even the highly accurate Masterpieces and Generation 1 reproductions, are also inevitably bound to have little to no resale value in the near future. The older 1980s KOs became valuable precisely because of how limited they were, with the very few that were around directly trying to compete with Hasbro, but alas, contemporary knockoffs have almost formed an entire parallel market of their own that Hasbro doesn't seem to particularly care about. As for the cheaper dollar store ones, it might be needless to say that the resale value for a flimsy oversized Legends class figure will probably never be all that great in the first place. Furthermore, in conjunction with the previous point, reselling them is also theoretically illegal.

*At last, while legality or quality are hardly detractors for most consumers, you might want to seriously consider the manufacturing backgrounds of most of these figures. Keep in mind that the working conditions in China, where the predominant amount of knockoffs come from, are easily amongst the most miserable and inhumane for modern developed economies, to the point where some manufacturers like the aforementioned Citi Toys have even been investigated for accusations of child labor. The Chinese government does attempt to enforce several rigorous labor laws, but alas, the minimum wage for most undeveloped regions is still incredibly low and therefore, if even massive multinational corporations like Nike and Apple have been strongly criticized for their labor practices in China, it seems fair to assume that the schedules and wages demanded for illegal counterfeit products are probably even more immoral and inhumane. Once again, this does not necessarily apply to every single manufacturer, but if you're buying a legally shady product then it might very likely also have a legally shady manufacturing process behind it.

==In fiction==
===IDW Generation 1 continuity===
"Knockoff" was considered an offensive epithet against Transformers who were [[Reproduction#IDW Generation 1 continuity|"constructed cold."]] {{storylink|Remain in Light 1 of 5: The Fecund Moon|The Fecund Moon}}

===''Age of Extinction'' film===
After defeating [[Stinger (AOE)|Stinger]], [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]] smugly referred to his defeated doppelganger as a "cheap knockoff." {{storylink|Transformers: Age of Extinction (film)|Age of Extinction}}

==External links==
*[http://highendtfs.com/?q=node/17 HighEndTFs' ID Guide for high quality counterfeit Generation 1 Transformers]
*[http://www.actionfigurechecklist.com/Images/Album/index.php?v=list&i=0&p=Transformers_KnockOff_KO Action Figure Checklist's Transformer Knock-Off Photo Album]
*[http://www.reocities.com/TelevisionCity/3230/tfother.html All Things Transformers - Other Transforming Toys]
*[http://www22.pos.to/~butto/ttot.html Butto's Other Transforming Toys (Japanese)]
*[http://www.netlaputa.ne.jp/~m-akao/GALLERY/fakehp.html Fake Toy Gallery (Japanese)]
*[http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/listing/user/bootlegs Hatch's Bootleg Transformers]
*[http://www.geocities.ws/kidk0rrupt/ Kid K0rrupt's Bootleg Gallery]
*[http://www.builtstlouis.net/tf/mmkos/index.html Rob's Pile of Transformers: Micromaster Knockoffs]
*[http://www.tfarchive.com/toys/gallery.php?g2_itemId=7302 TFArchive.com's Bootleg Gallery]
*[http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-3rd-party-discussion/191817-knock-off-transformers-thread.html TFW2005 Ongoing Knock-Off Transformers Thread]
*[http://www.toyarchive.com/Transformers/Knockoffs/Genertaion1KnockOffs.html Toyarchive.com's Gallery of Generation 1 Knockoffs]
*[http://zobovor.20megsfree.com/knockoffs_archive.html Zobovor's Knockoff Toys Archive (text)]
*[http://pleasesavemerobots.com/scrambledcity/skorbia/index.html SKORBIA-Crazysteve's South Korean Bootleg Information Archive]

==Footnotes==
<references />

[[Category:Toys]]

User talk:Abates

2019-01-26T22:26:56Z

Puppetroblox: /* Possible use of multiple accounts? */

<div style="float: right; width: 33%">
{{chapters
|title=User talk archives
|content=[[/Archive 1|Archive 1]]<br />
[[/Archive 2|Archive 2]]<br />
[[/Archive 3|Archive 3]]<br />
[[/Archive 4|Archive 4]]<br />
[[/Archive 5|Archive 5]]<br />
[[/Archive 6|Archive 6]]<br />
[[/Archive 7|Archive 7]]
}}</div>
== Sidebar ==

Given its imminence and "big deal" status, would it make sense to put [[Unicron: The Darkest Hour]] on the sidebar? --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 21:36, 18 March 2018 (EDT)
:Maybe - we don't usually put miniseries up, but it is likely to be pretty important for the IDW continuity. Now I think of it, we should probably have Cyberverse up there too. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 22:59, 18 March 2018 (EDT)
::How about Rescue Bots Academy? --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 11:00, 20 March 2018 (EDT)
:::It's probably a bit early yet. That's not out until next year. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 15:46, 20 March 2018 (EDT)
::::Actually, it just got moved up to Fall according to [http://www.cynopsis.com/032018-discovery-family-heads-into-upfront-season-with-legacy-kids-brands-cake-boss-spinoff/ Discovery Family's 2018-2019 upfront]. If we're gonna add Cyberverse, it might be prudent to add RBA as well. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 16:26, 21 March 2018 (EDT)
:::::That's pretty fantastic news! Sounds like adding that is reasonable then. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 16:53, 21 March 2018 (EDT)
Could we please add links to the GoBots and IDW sister wikis? [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 15:29, 7 May 2018 (EDT)
:Sure, I've just added links for them to the main page. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 16:52, 7 May 2018 (EDT)
::I think it'd be a good idea to have links to them in the sidebar too - their own subsection under the "current media" section? --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 17:28, 7 May 2018 (EDT)
:::Having links in the "Navigation" section that go to entire other websites would not be good, IMHO, as users are not going to expect it. Adding links to other sites in the sidebar is something that needs more of a discussion than it has been given, and also should be run by Walky. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 17:43, 7 May 2018 (EDT)

== Multiple account abuser ==

A not exactly subtle case: [[Special:Contributions/Transformers1001|Transformers1001]] and [[Special:Contributions/TransformersFan1001|TransformersFan1001]]. The two accounts were created the exact same day, make very similar edits (i.e. the kind that have to keep getting reverted), and are never active at the same time. Note that when one account stops making edits, the other starts. Would you please take care of them? -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 23:38, 20 May 2018 (EDT)

== Bumblebee (film) ==

Would you please be so kind as to update the links from "Bumblebee: The Movie" to "[[Bumblebee (film)]]" on the main nav and the [[Live-action film series]] page? Thanks much. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 14:20, 5 June 2018 (EDT)
: Thank you! -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 16:37, 5 June 2018 (EDT)
::No problem! --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 16:47, 5 June 2018 (EDT)

== Vandalist? ==

[[User:Polar Prime 12]] keeps copy and pasting a poor fiction section for [[Bumblebee (Cyberverse)]] based on his bio. They have been told many times to stop, and their edits are reverted, yet they insist on having their summary on the page. Can you give them a penalty? [[User:Notirishman|notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 19:32, 13 July 2018 (EDT)
:For now, I have dropped an explanation on their talk page as it's more obvious for them to see than the page edit history. I'd prefer to err on the side of being friendly and making sure they know why they're being reverted before getting out the ban stick. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 21:09, 13 July 2018 (EDT)

== Cyberverse ==

Could you please unlock the [[Transformers: Cyberverse (cartoon)|Cyberverse cartoon]] article? Locking it made sense months ago when we didn't know anything and wanted to prevent vandalism, but now that we're only a few months from launch and details are actually starting to emerge, it makes more sense to re-open it for editing so we can keep up with any new information. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 15:01, 25 July 2018 (EDT)
:Yep, I think it's OK to unlock it now. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 16:28, 25 July 2018 (EDT)

== Botched move ==

If you have the time, could you fix the "KSI Sentry"/"Trax (AOE)" histories? And move "Trax (G1)" to just "Trax". [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 08:25, 30 July 2018 (EDT)
:I apologize for the inconvenience I created. I wasn't aware of the issues that would arise from it. [[User:Notirishman|notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 13:06, 30 July 2018 (EDT)

== Ruined Forever update (NOT content-related) ==

I've been working on updating instances of inter-wiki linking to remove bare URLs and use the current preferred templates, and I realized there's a few spots on [[Ruined FOREVER]] that need to be brought up to date. I'm not changing any of the content, but I have put together a new draft in my [[User:Cyberlink420/sandbox-ruin|sandbox]] that uses our <nowiki>{{w}} and [[tvtropes]]</nowiki> templates, as well as fixing one of the links to redirect properly. Unfortunately I can't implement the changes myself since the page is locked; could you please copy-paste the draft onto the article when you get the chance? Thanks much. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 12:50, 24 August 2018 (EDT)
:I have updated the TVTropes link and the anchor on the Wikipedia like, but I don't see the point in changing perfectly good Wikipedia links to use a template instead. What's the advantage there? --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 18:57, 24 August 2018 (EDT)

== Scroll box template ==

Hey, I was wondering if it would be possible to integrate the coding for [https://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Scroll_box this template] to here? I want to try out a proposal. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 01:16, 4 November 2018 (EDT)
:I've added the scrollbox class styling they're using on it. Let me know if you need anything else. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 01:11, 4 November 2018 (EST)

== What everybody lacks but me. ==

I was able to add in more information to the Transformers video games, more specifically, the NDS games for the 2007 & ROTF movies, the ROTF PSP game, and the Wii/PS2 version of the ROTF game. I even added in character pages for the Krome-exclusive NPCs, and the playable ROTF DS Transformers. Something that nobody, not even you, were never able to do, because I have the time & energy to do so, all because I did some heavy researching, and thorough analysis. [[User:StormJet|StormJet]] ([[User talk:StormJet|talk]]) 22:29, 5 November 2018 (EST)
:Cool, good work! --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 22:52, 5 November 2018 (EST)
:You really need to tone down that passive-aggressiveness. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 23:09, 5 November 2018 (EST)
::You're lucky, everything I did was unfairly removed. -[[User:MisterKenneth|MisterKenneth]] ([[User talk:MisterKenneth|talk]]) 22:58, 5 November 2018 (EST)
::: From what I can see, you added a toy listing for something that was leaked, and the other one was an addition to the "many deaths of Optimus" page that wasn't really a death. Hardly unfair. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 23:09, 5 November 2018 (EST)
:::: It wasn't fair. If the toy wasn't real, I wouldn't have posted anything about it, but it was clearly real and a planned product. It wasn't like it was secret North Korean nuke codes or something, it was a prototype on display, clearly it was being revealed and confirmed. Later on, the same user who called me out later took the credit for himself, when I deserve the credit. I do not understand how that on "the many deaths of Optimus Prime" was wrong when 1. There's a couple of near death mentions on the page 2. The film really built it up like he was going to die and 3. It was the truth. It honestly doesn't end there, but I don't feel like digging it all up, but to make it short, I've been insulted, called a liar, etc. It really makes me think this place is highly elitist, hypocritical, and unwelcoming of newer users, which is why I'm leaving, but want to put my case to rest before I do. -[[User:MisterKenneth|MisterKenneth]] ([[User talk:MisterKenneth|talk]]) 23:24, 5 November 2018 (EST)
::::: So you came to an entirely different conversation to bring up your, putting it kindly, imagined unfair treatment. Very mature. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 00:04, 6 November 2018 (EST)
::::: @MisterKenneth: I hope you'll understand that there are very good reasons why we don't list leaked toys here. It's because if we acknowledge the leaked toy, it will encourage further leaks in future, which is essentially encouraging people to break the law. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 00:12, 6 November 2018 (EST)
:::::: @Escargon You started by saying that what people did to me was fair. I simply joined in here to tell @Stormjet that he's lucky he was able to get that cool info in without somebody going after him, which wasn't the case for me. I didn't intend on saying anything else. @Abates I don't understand. How is it a leak if its a confirmed product? I saw people confirm that MPM-7 was a real product going to hit the shelves and online stores, so I have no idea how that's a leak and illegal. It's not like I collected that information from some shady spy in a dark alleyway, the image I uploaded of MPM-7 was from I believe either Seibertron or TFW2005, and I saw sources confirming MPM-7's existence. I was telling the truth. I didn't come here to spread lies, I'm not that kind of person. -[[User:MisterKenneth|MisterKenneth]] ([[User talk:MisterKenneth|talk]]) 00:54, 6 November 2018 (EST)
:::::::That particular image that was uploaded was a leak, as you can see here: https://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/bumblebee-the-movie-masterpiece-movie-vw-beetle-bumblebee-prototype-figure-leaked/40982/ If someone has it displayed somewhere without making it clear that it's from a leak, then that's an error on their part, but we still can't have it on the Wiki. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 01:05, 6 November 2018 (EST)
:::::::: I most likely got that image and the info from here https://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/transformers-movie-masterpiece-mpm7-volkswagen-bumblebee/41919/ this article proves the toys existence by going as far as to mention pre-order and release dates. They said that it may not have anything to do with the final toy, but after looking at images of the final toy, I can safely say it had everything to do with it. Would a "leak" as you call it have the kind information seen here? -[[User:MisterKenneth|MisterKenneth]] ([[User talk:MisterKenneth|talk]]) 01:17, 6 November 2018 (EST)
::::::::: "It exists" is ''not'' the concern here. The issue is: has it been officially announced? If ''no'', then it's a leak, no matter how "real" it is. - [[User:TBR|TBR]] ([[User talk:TBR|talk]]) 01:25, 6 November 2018 (EST)
:::::::::: Well, I guess there's not really much else I can say. With that said, I don't want to continue this discussion, so good day, or night depending on where you're at. @StormJet I apologize if what I said got your thing here derailed. -[[User:MisterKenneth|MisterKenneth]] ([[User talk:MisterKenneth|talk]]) 01:37, 6 November 2018 (EST)

Re the above conversation, if people are removing your edits repeatedly, then the proper course of action is to talk it out on the talk page in question. I didn't remove the edits in question, so I can't give any more insight into their removal than anyone other than the person who did so. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 15:09, 11 November 2018 (EST)

== Possible use of multiple accounts? ==

Hey, would you be so kind as to run an IP check on [[User:‎Kampungpisangadrian]] and make sure they aren’t the same IP as [[User:Memeuser17]]? I know it’s a weird request and I’m probably just being paranoid, but something about the whole thing feels off. Like, Kampung doesn’t make any edits for 8 months, then Memeuser suddenly tries to start something on their talk page unprovoked, and that just HAPPENS to be when Kampung comes back? Like I said, I’m probably just being paranoid and I'll gladly admit it if I'm wrong, but there’s something weird about the whole thing and I just wanna make sure. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 13:57, 29 November 2018 (EST)
:Those users both edited from the same IP address and with the exact same user agent, so I'm going to go out on a limb here and say they are most likely one and the same person. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 16:07, 29 November 2018 (EST)
Stop assuming they are the same person, please[[User:Puppetroblox|Puppetroblox]] ([[User talk:Puppetroblox|talk]]) 17:26, 26 January 2019 (EST)

== Titan page move ==

Thanks for moving the Titan page. Could you get the talk page as well? I moved the messages from it onto the Titan (IDW) talk page, so it should be safe to relocate. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 21:53, 7 January 2019 (EST)
:Thanks, done! --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 23:53, 7 January 2019 (EST)

== Another possible multi-account vandal ==

Hey, if you get the chance, could you run an IP check on [[Special:Contributions/Tritusk]] and [[Special:Contributions/Firetrack]]? Both are relatively new, and both are attempting to erase instances of characters dying or inserting claims of "but they were fine", not unlike the already-banned [[Special:Contributions/StarPlat]]. Would rather nip this in the bud early before they start messing up more pages. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 18:56, 15 January 2019 (EST)
:Tritusk appears to be the same person as [[Special:Contributions/Hipfiree]], which is kinda bizarre because Hipfiree is not banned, (they were banned briefly when we thought they were StarPlat) and in fact edited a few days before they created the Tritusk account. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 20:32, 15 January 2019 (EST)
::Weird. So I guess Firetrack is clean then? -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 20:35, 15 January 2019 (EST)
:::Firetrack I'm not sure on. It's possible that they could be Hipfiree but the evidence there isn't conclusive enough for my liking. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 20:46, 15 January 2019 (EST)
::::Fair enough, then. I'll keep an eye on things just to be safe. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 20:48, 15 January 2019 (EST)
:::::[[User:NovaStorm]] also seems to have a bee up their bonnet about changing statements of character deaths. Possible alternate account of one of these guys? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 16:15, 16 January 2019 (EST)
::::::Yep. I'm also more confident about Firetrack than I was yesterday, so I've banned that account too. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 16:21, 16 January 2019 (EST)

== Wikia to Fandom changeover ==

Based on my cursory research, it seems the migration from Wikia to Fandom is complete, as every Wikia link I've tested so far has redirected to the .fandom URL. When you get the chance, could you update the interwiki linking system to point directly to the Fandom URL instead? Also, do we have a full list of wikia sites with their own domains that we support interwiki linking to? I know Memory-Alpha is one of them, but that redirects to a .fandom URL now as well instead of memory-alpha.org, so it wouldn't hurt to make sure those are up to date too. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 14:23, 24 January 2019 (EST)
:It looks like there are some which haven't yet been migrated - e.g. community.wikia.com is still non-migrated. They will probably make an announcement on the staff blog when the migration is finished so once they do that, it should be safer. Our Interwiki for Memory-Alpha points to the .org domain, so so long as that's still redirecting, we should be all right. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 14:38, 24 January 2019 (EST)
::Based on [[wikia:community:Help:Fandom domain migration#What are the next steps?|this help entry]], it sounds like the changeover to Fandom will be finished by February 4th, so we should be safe to update things after that date. (Side note, do we want to change the prefix to "fandom:" instead of "wikia:"? I don't mind going in and editing any articles accordingly to update them if we do.). -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 01:10, 26 January 2019 (EST)
:::We can easily just make two prefixes so people can use either wikia: or fandom: depending. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 04:21, 26 January 2019 (EST)
:::This may be a stupid question, but why do you want wikia interwiki links? Even if you want to link out to wikia/"fandom", interwiki links aren't nofollow'd (unlike standard external links), so they help wikia's SEO. (Similar but lesser point about changing existing links from wikia to fandom - or memory-alpha.org to the fandom link - since they redirect anyway) - [[User:Mammalian Verisimilitude|Mammalian Verisimilitude]] ([[User talk:Mammalian Verisimilitude|talk]]) 12:00, 26 January 2019 (EST)
::::I mean, if you're asking why we'd want to point directly to a page instead of a redirect, that's just good policy from a web accessibility perspective. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 12:54, 26 January 2019 (EST)

::::I don't believe the SEO impact of us linking to, say, Memory Alpha would be significant. In most cases there's going to be one or two links on a page with hundreds of links to other TFWiki pages, and any pagerank juice is shared evenly between all of those links so we're talking about 1/100 of the total from that page. That said, admittedly my knowledge of how Google's SEO system works may be a little out of date of if anyone has more recent knowledge, feel free to join in this thread! --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 14:09, 26 January 2019 (EST)
::::Sounds like you want to actively hurt Wikia/Fandom. Why should we want to do that? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 14:14, 26 January 2019 (EST)

User talk:Puppetroblox

2019-01-26T22:25:19Z

Puppetroblox:

{{welcome}}

To reach your User page, click on your name in the bar at the top right. [[User:Puppetroblox|Or use this link.]] -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 19:59, 9 June 2018 (EDT)

:It doesn't work, I can't create the page. [[User:Puppetroblox|Puppetroblox]] ([[User talk:Puppetroblox|talk]]) 20:02, 9 June 2018 (EDT)
::Can you not see the Save button or something? -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 20:12, 9 June 2018 (EDT)
:::Very new users cannot create new pages as part of our spam protection (spammers were signing up and immediately creating pages with spam in) so if you wait for a short time, you should be able to create a user page. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 22:21, 9 June 2018 (EDT)
:: thanks! [[User:Puppetroblox|Puppetroblox]] ([[User talk:Puppetroblox|talk]]) 20:26, 10 June
==Don't erase your talk page==
Do not erase anything someone else writes on your talk page unless it's hateful speech/vandilism. [[User:Notirishman|notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 21:05, 25 August 2018 (EDT)

User talk:Puppetroblox

2018-08-26T00:35:19Z

Puppetroblox: Replaced content with "notachatroom"

notachatroom

Talk:Transformers: Cyberverse (cartoon)

2018-08-23T13:31:22Z

Puppetroblox:

== No info yet (2017) ==

Nothing is known or rumored beyond the teaser? It just mentions the two chapters and seems to imply that Bumblebee will play a role in chapter 1. Any rumors, leaks, or other info that just isn't reliable enough? [[User:Cosmos1|Cosmos1]] ([[User talk:Cosmos1|talk]]) 20:54, 10 October 2017 (EDT)

== Teaser image (2017) ==

This article has an image of some of the characters - should they be included in the main TFwiki article? http://comicbook.com/tv-shows/2017/10/14/transformers-cyberverse-animated-first-look/1 [[User:DoctorWhoFan|DoctorWhoFan]] ([[User talk:DoctorWhoFan|talk]]) 13:44, 01 November 2017 (GMT)

== Storing image for future use ==

[[File:Transformers Cyberverse Chapter One.jpg|thumb|right|250px|G3 cometh.]]
--[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 16:10, 14 November 2017 (EST)

== safe to assume if it's a sequel or not? ==

I think it might be it's own thing, given the cast.

Just tossing my hat in.

Also, when are we getting an airdate?[[User:Femtransfan|Femtransfan]] ([[User talk:Femtransfan|talk]]) 15:32, 20 April 2018 (EDT)
:There's no firm evidence either way, so it's too early to make any sort of call. Nor has there been any word on the release date or when we might get one. Best to be patient for now. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 15:39, 20 April 2018 (EDT)

== Instagram link in References ==

The link seems to be broken, for me at least. --[[User:Flicky1991|flicky]][[User talk:Flicky1991|1991]] 13:32, 24 June 2018 (EDT)
:It looks like the Instagram post was deleted, yeah. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 16:40, 24 June 2018 (EDT)

== More characters? ==

[https://transformers.hasbro.com/en-us/brands/cyberverse Hasbro's website] updated with a new page on the Cyberverse cartoon, revealing more characters. Shall these characters be added to the list by an admin? [[User:Notirishman|notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 20:00, 3 July 2018 (EDT)
:Indeed! --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 20:07, 3 July 2018 (EDT)
::Given pages have begun to be created, perhaps the page can be unlocked now? - [[User:TBR|TBR]] ([[User talk:TBR|talk]]) 22:18, 4 July 2018 (EDT)

== Character Links ==

Some of the characters already have their own pages. Can an admin please add links to all of the characters? [[User:Notirishman|notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 11:46, 19 July 2018 (EDT)
:Yeah, it's past time for the "list of names not linked to any articles" thing to end. The articles are going up. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:48, 24 July 2018 (EDT)

== Arcee is shown in animation teasers ==

Arcee is seen in the sample of the cartoon. Please add her in! [[User:Notirishman|notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 15:08, 19 July 2018 (EDT)
: For those looking for verification, she can be seen behind Megatron's left leg during the panning shot after he shouts "I fight for you!" (Also, now that we're getting closer to launch and more information is surfacing, it might be wise to think about opening the page back up so we can properly keep up with official reveals.) -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 15:33, 19 July 2018 (EDT)

== Chromia in title sequence ==

Chromia can be seen in the title sequence in one of the hexagons flying by. Can an admin add her with a link or just lower the protection so registered users can edit it? [[User:Notirishman|notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 15:50, 20 July 2018 (EDT)

== some theories on Skywarp by some youtubers ==

An OFFICIAL clip that circulated online shows a purple Decepticon. Many assume it is Slipstream because it appears there is lipstick on the lips, but it looks more like an open mouth. So we need to wait for an official confirmation this is Skywarp himself. [[User:Puppetroblox|Puppetroblox]] ([[User talk:Puppetroblox|talk]]) 09:31, 23 August 2018 (EDT)

Talk:Transformers: Bumblebee Movie Prequel

2018-08-23T13:26:15Z

Puppetroblox:

==Decepticon Alternate Modes==
I have read the Bumblebee prequel comics and I have find the plot quite interesting so far, but being a automobile enthusiast, the only thing I want to know are what are the alternate modes the Decepticons Wildrider, Runabout, Diabla, and Dead End, for now unless more new 'Cons show up, turn into, cause I'm unfamiliar with them. [[User:StormJet|StormJet]] ([[User talk:StormJet|talk]]) 01:58, 7 August 2018 (EDT)

:: Bee is an Aston Martin, Diabla is a corvette. [[User:Puppetroblox|Puppetroblox]] ([[User talk:Puppetroblox|talk]]) 10:25, 18 August 2018 (EDT)

== New Red Decepticon? ==

In the cover of last issue, we see a red Decepticon battling bumblebee. So, is this DeadEnd? It is based on ROTF Scout DeadEnd, but appears to have Barricade's head. Could this be DeadEnd?
[[User:Puppetroblox|Puppetroblox]] ([[User talk:Puppetroblox|talk]]) 09:26, 23 August 2018 (EDT)

Talk:Transformers: Bumblebee Movie Prequel

2018-08-18T14:25:12Z

Puppetroblox: /* Decepticon Alternate Modes */

Talk:Bumblebee (film)

2018-08-15T10:53:36Z

Puppetroblox:

==Lawsuit?==
So Hasbro just filed a Lawsuit with DC Comics for the Bumblebee Name. [http://variety.com/2017/biz/news/bumblebee-trademark-transformers-dc-comics-warner-bros-1202541577/] [[User:Energizer|Energizer]] ([[User talk:Energizer|talk]]) 04:45, 30 August 2017 (EDT)

==To Scream or not to Scream==
Should Starscream be in the cast list here, when we've not actually had any official announcement/confirmation that the character in the trailer is him? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:58, 8 June 2018 (EDT)
:Nope. --[[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] ([[User talk:Dark T Zeratul|talk]]) 01:11, 9 June 2018 (EDT)
::Aw, come on! Its quite obviously supposed to be starscream, the head design is a slightly more g1-ifies version of michael bay starscream. The colors of the jet (what can be seen of it) are starscream colors, red air intakes, white nose area, and even a orange cockpit. It is highly unlikely this starscream homage isnt him, its clearly a more g1-ified version of michael bay starscream. [[User:YourBestPal|YourBestPal]] ([[User talk:YourBestPal|talk]]) 13:13, 9 June 2018 (EDT)
:::It's not uncommon for [[Blackout (Movie)|movie]] [[Grindor (ROTF)|characters]] to [[Crankcase (DOTM)|not]] [[Berserker|be]] who you think they are. Until Starscream is officially confirmed, we gotta play it safe. [[User:Ikkad|Ikkad]] ([[User talk:Ikkad|talk]]) 14:14, 9 June 2018 (EDT)
::: Only one [[Barricade (Movie)|decepticon]] has been confirmed for the movie. Starscream has not been confirmed yet. [[User:Puppetroblox|Puppetroblox]] ([[User talk:Puppetroblox|talk]]) 19:34, 9 June 2018 (EDT)
Get rekt, it’s confirmed as screamer now! [[User:YourBestPal|YourBestPal]] ([[User talk:YourBestPal|talk]]) 08:24, 21 June 2018 (EDT)
:The rudeness is hardly necessary. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 08:51, 21 June 2018 (EDT)
Sorry, I meant it in a friendlier manner. [[User:YourBestPal|YourBestPal]] ([[User talk:YourBestPal|talk]]) 13:53, 25 June 2018 (EDT)

The reason they had to make an official announcement was because you people kept speculating that it wasn't Starscream when it blattantly was. It's a soft reboot. He doesn't have to turn into a Dorito F-22 to be the same character. This has been common knowledge for months.[[User:Leo1452|King Kid]] ([[User talk:Leo1452|talk]]) 12:03, 28 June 2018 (EDT)
:Well I for one have always enjoyed crow when topped with a little (Whataburger) ketchup. - [[User:TBR|TBR]] ([[User talk:TBR|talk]]) 21:55, 21 July 2018 (EDT)

== /* Timeline and Continuity */ ==

This movie is a reboot because if not they should find the way to explain how Bumblebee fought in the WW2, because this movie is supposedly to be the first time Bumblebee came to Earth--[[User:Crosshairs|Crosshairs]] ([[User talk:Crosshairs|talk]]) 22:42, 9 June 2018 (EDT)
:Stop. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 23:29, 9 June 2018 (EDT)
==toyline?==
Is there a toyline? I know the movie has a while to release, but we knew about titans return about a year before release. Why do t we know about this toyline?
[[User:YourBestPal|YourBestPal]] ([[User talk:YourBestPal|talk]]) 13:39, 10 June 2018 (EDT)

There might be. I have seen pictures showing a prototype of a volkswagen beetle Bumblebee ( redeco from TLK new bumblebee ) [[User:Puppetroblox|Puppetroblox]] ([[User talk:Puppetroblox|talk]]) 20:29, 10 June 2018 (EDT

:The toyline will be absorbed into ''Studio Series.'' [[User:Notirishman|--notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 20:49, 10 June 2018 (EDT)
==Is this really a reboot?==
I have heard that the reboot is cancelled, but the past events in the movies just don't match up.
Bumblebee went to earth with Hot Rod and fought in world war 2 (ww2) there. Instead the movie shows bumblebee's first time on earth.
So is this a start to the reboot or just a confusing event in the Bayformers Movies? [[User:Puppetroblox|Puppetroblox]] ([[User talk:Puppetroblox|talk]]) 20:39, 10 June 2018 (EDT)
:Dude, it really doesn't matter right now, the movie isn't out yet. [[User:Notirishman|--notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 20:49, 10 June 2018 (EDT)
==bumblebee design==
Is it me, or does bumblebee kinda look like the cancelled alternators g1 bumblebee? If anyone else picks up on this, should we put it in the (currently nonexistent) trivia area that his design is possibly an homage to said toy? [[User:YourBestPal|YourBestPal]] ([[User talk:YourBestPal|talk]]) 13:55, 25 June 2018 (EDT)

==female Decepticon==

A youtuber, AndySupreme99, claims that he saw the trailer at Cinemacon. He says that there is a female Decepticon. Have any of you seen the trailer he mentioned?
:We obviously know now that this was referring to Shatter, but for the record, we need a better source than "This YouTuber says..." next time. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 01:19, 22 July 2018 (EDT)

==new characters confirmed==

The director has confirmed that Cliffjumper, Soundwave and Shockwave will be on Cybertron. [[User:Puppetroblox|Puppetroblox]] ([[User talk:Puppetroblox|talk]]) 06:53, 15 August 2018 (EDT)

Talk:Bumblebee (Cyberverse)

2018-07-22T14:56:30Z

Puppetroblox: Created page with "== scout class gimmicks == : he appears to be mistransformed, or is this a gimmick, or is the toy supposed to be half transformed? ~~~~"

== scout class gimmicks ==
: he appears to be mistransformed, or is this a gimmick, or is the toy supposed to be half transformed?
[[User:Puppetroblox|Puppetroblox]] ([[User talk:Puppetroblox|talk]]) 10:56, 22 July 2018 (EDT)

Talk:Blast Off (G1)

2018-07-03T13:52:46Z

Puppetroblox: /* add potp images */

Blast Off and the rest of the Combaticons reformatted the WWII Vehicles using "[[Transmuter (Binaltech)|Transmuter]]" technology(Confirmed in BT Shockwave's booklet, page nine), the same thing that Ravage used to make Alt Shockwave from Jazz's stolen design specs and an ordanary car. So "Somehow he turned from the chassis of a World War II bomber to a Space Shuttle once he was activated. He would probably place this on him being a sophisticated Transformer." is inaccurate.
It was also a component in one of Cobra's schemes, before it was used in the Transformers Mythos. [[User:85.195.123.25|85.195.123.25]] 20:27, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:If that's the explanation, throw it in. I left that bit from the previous version in because I didn't have any official explanation.[[User:WWise|WWise]] 20:35, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

In the description of Blast Off's G1 toy mode, there's a word or two left out. All it says is: "In this mode, he is armed with two laser cannons mounted his engines." Does anyone know whether the cannons are mounted ''on'' or ''next to'' his engines? I'd like to clarify it, but I don't have the toy and I can't tell from the image... [[User:Aamp|amp]] 18:22, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'd say "next to" because the cannons are actually mounted on his wings. --[[User:74.57.3.251|74.57.3.251]] 19:19, 4 February 2008 (UTC) (Detour, at work)
:The cannons actually plug ''into'' two of his three engine exhaust vents. They're J-shaped and wrap around the back of his fuselage to point forwards. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 20:48, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
::Really? Wow. That's what I get for having only an accessory-less G2 Blastoff to base my judgements on. Thanks for clarifying. --[[User:74.57.3.251|74.57.3.251]] 21:35, 4 February 2008 (UTC) (Detour still at work)

== Disambiguation ==

We need a [[Blast Off (disambiguation)]] page now, because of [[Blast Off (FOC)]]. --[[User:Primo|Primo]] 18:49, 18 December 2011 (EST)
:Go for it. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 18:57, 18 December 2011 (EST)

== Bio vs Kreo ==

Blast Off's Kre-O bio is very true to the G1 character. The Kre-O bio works great because it is him talking just like he really would be, playing up the idea that he is perfectly happy. There are subtle hints that he doesn't really mean it. '''''Favorite sound''': The silence of space, where I spend all my time so very, very alone.'' Blast Off's wiki write up might be a wee bit misleading if people take it as face value because the wiki narrator is doing the talking. People might not get that he he is really just lonely. He also merely shows no remorse for shooting people from great distances and not outright joy. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 18:17, 13 February 2013 (EST)

:I think our bio is pretty clear and works in exactly the same way the Kreo does. It relies on the reader having some intelligence and being able to read tone and subtext, but thats a good thing imo. We shouldn't write down to the lowest denominator. This is one of our better bios imo.--[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 18:46, 13 February 2013 (EST)

== CW Blast Off's head ==

So, artist [[Ken Christiansen]] has shared some sketches for Combiner Wars packaging art, and Blast Off's sketch shows him with Firefly's head sculpt rather than Quickslinger's, suggesting Blast Off was intended to reuse the former's head originally. According to this wiki: "We can only assume that the use of Quickslinger's head sculpt over Firefly's mouthplated one has something to do with the sort-of visor that Blast Off acquired via coloring error in the Generation 1 cartoon."

Well, it seems that theory might be false. My guess as to why Hasbro switched to the less accurate head sculpt is because it was never used on a normal retail release, just an online exclusive. [[User:ShootingStar7X|ShootingStar7X]] ([[User talk:ShootingStar7X|talk]]) 15:17, 15 January 2018 (EST)

== POTP Blast Off labeling ==

The images that surfaced of POTP Blast Off show him under the ''Prime Wars Trilogy'' and ''Combiner Wars'' labeling. So should we put Blast Off under a Combiner Wars, Prime Wars Tilogy, or Power of the Primes heading? Should his listing be put under the POTP page or Combiner Wars? In his description, should we say ''Prime Wars Trilogy'' Blast Off, ''Combiner Wars'' Blast Off, or ''Power of the Primes'' Blast Off? We are in a pickle! [[User:Notirishman|notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 17:42, 25 June 2018 (EDT)
:Combiner Wars. "Prime Wars Trilogy" isn't really a toyline, and it doesn't say "Power of the Primes" anywhere on the box. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 17:45, 25 June 2018 (EDT)
::Online listings say ''Power of the Primes''. Also, if we do choose Combiner Wars, we put it on the Combiner Wars page? Additionally, Repugnus will most likely also be Titans Return and Prime Wars Trilogy, so when we get confirmation for that, we put it on the Titans Return page too? [[User:Notirishman|notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 17:52, 25 June 2018 (EDT)
:::The only listing I'm aware of that says POTP is the Robot Kingdom one, which was written by RK themselves. The Amazon listings, which use official copy from Hasbro, refer to them as CW, TR and POTP. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 18:05, 25 June 2018 (EDT)
::::Okay, and also, do we put Blast Off on the Combiner Wars page and remove it from the POTP page? Additionally, Repugnus will most likely also be Titans Return and Prime Wars Trilogy, so when we get confirmation for that, we put it on the Titans Return page too? And by extension extend the time span for these two toylines (i.e. 2016-2018)? [[User:Notirishman|notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 19:36, 25 June 2018 (EDT)
:The packaging says Combiner Wars, so we put it there. That's a lot simpler than adding a new "Prime Wars Trilogy" subheader to the page just for that one toy. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 21:05, 25 June 2018 (EDT)
::Mkay, thanks. [[User:Notirishman|notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 22:56, 25 June 2018 (EDT)

==add potp images==

Should we add the images of him? The POTP pictures are now unblocked and we can see what they look like now.
So should we add it?
[[User:Puppetroblox|Puppetroblox]] ([[User talk:Puppetroblox|talk]]) 09:52, 3 July 2018 (EDT)

Talk:Transformers: Cyberverse (toyline)

2018-07-02T11:25:04Z

Puppetroblox:

Just wondering, why do the scout class alternate modes look like they have the robot torso and head on top of them? Are the renders mistransformed, or is that just a bizarre looking gimmick? Also, ive known about this site for years, and used it alot, but im new to having an account.
P.s- My DOTM voyager ironhide is garbage, the panels dont lock into place and the pin in his waist keeps falling out
[[User:YourBestPal|YourBestPal]] ([[User talk:YourBestPal|talk]]) 16:07, 12 May 2018 (EDT)

:: It is a bizarre looking gimmick, the toy itself is supposed to be half transformed. [[User:Puppetroblox|Puppetroblox]] ([[User talk:Puppetroblox|talk]]) 07:25, 2 July 2018 (EDT)

Talk:Bumblebee (film)

2018-07-02T11:20:30Z

Puppetroblox: /* bumblebee design */

So Hasbro just filed a Lawsuit with DC Comics for the Bumblebee Name. [http://variety.com/2017/biz/news/bumblebee-trademark-transformers-dc-comics-warner-bros-1202541577/] [[User:Energizer|Energizer]] ([[User talk:Energizer|talk]]) 04:45, 30 August 2017 (EDT)

Should Starscream be in the cast list here, when we've not actually had any official announcement/confirmation that the character in the trailer is him? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 12:58, 8 June 2018 (EDT)
:Nope. --[[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] ([[User talk:Dark T Zeratul|talk]]) 01:11, 9 June 2018 (EDT)
::Aw, come on! Its quite obviously supposed to be starscream, the head design is a slightly more g1-ifies version of michael bay starscream. The colors of the jet (what can be seen of it) are starscream colors, red air intakes, white nose area, and even a orange cockpit. It is highly unlikely this starscream homage isnt him, its clearly a more g1-ified version of michael bay starscream. [[User:YourBestPal|YourBestPal]] ([[User talk:YourBestPal|talk]]) 13:13, 9 June 2018 (EDT)
:::It's not uncommon for [[Blackout (Movie)|movie]] [[Grindor (ROTF)|characters]] to [[Crankcase (DOTM)|not]] [[Berserker|be]] who you think they are. Until Starscream is officially confirmed, we gotta play it safe. [[User:Ikkad|Ikkad]] ([[User talk:Ikkad|talk]]) 14:14, 9 June 2018 (EDT)
::: Only one [[Barricade (Movie)|decepticon]] has been confirmed for the movie. Starscream has not been confirmed yet. [[User:Puppetroblox|Puppetroblox]] ([[User talk:Puppetroblox|talk]]) 19:34, 9 June 2018 (EDT)
Get rekt, it’s confirmed as screamer now! [[User:YourBestPal|YourBestPal]] ([[User talk:YourBestPal|talk]]) 08:24, 21 June 2018 (EDT)
:The rudeness is hardly necessary. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 08:51, 21 June 2018 (EDT)
Sorry, I meant it in a friendlier manner. [[User:YourBestPal|YourBestPal]] ([[User talk:YourBestPal|talk]]) 13:53, 25 June 2018 (EDT)
The reason they had to make an official announcement was because you people kept speculating that it wasn't Starscream when it blattantly was. It's a soft reboot. He doesn't have to turn into a Dorito F-22 to be the same character. This has been common knowledge for months.[[User:Leo1452|King Kid]] ([[User talk:Leo1452|talk]]) 12:03, 28 June 2018 (EDT)

== /* Timeline and Continuity */ ==

This movie is a reboot because if not they should find the way to explain how Bumblebee fought in the WW2, because this movie is supposedly to be the first time Bumblebee came to Earth--[[User:Crosshairs|Crosshairs]] ([[User talk:Crosshairs|talk]]) 22:42, 9 June 2018 (EDT)
:Stop. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 23:29, 9 June 2018 (EDT)
==toyline?==
Is there a toyline? I know the movie has a while to release, but we knew about titans return about a year before release. Why do t we know about this toyline?
[[User:YourBestPal|YourBestPal]] ([[User talk:YourBestPal|talk]]) 13:39, 10 June 2018 (EDT)

There might be. I have seen pictures showing a prototype of a volkswagen beetle Bumblebee ( redeco from TLK new bumblebee ) [[User:Puppetroblox|Puppetroblox]] ([[User talk:Puppetroblox|talk]]) 20:29, 10 June 2018 (EDT

:The toyline will be absorbed into ''Studio Series.'' [[User:Notirishman|--notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 20:49, 10 June 2018 (EDT)
==Is this really a reboot?==
I have heard that the reboot is cancelled, but the past events in the movies just don't match up.
Bumblebee went to earth with Hot Rod and fought in world war 2 (ww2) there. Instead the movie shows bumblebee's first time on earth.
So is this a start to the reboot or just a confusing event in the Bayformers Movies? [[User:Puppetroblox|Puppetroblox]] ([[User talk:Puppetroblox|talk]]) 20:39, 10 June 2018 (EDT)
:Dude, it really doesn't matter right now, the movie isn't out yet. [[User:Notirishman|--notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 20:49, 10 June 2018 (EDT)
==bumblebee design==
Is it me, or does bumblebee kinda look like the cancelled alternators g1 bumblebee? If anyone else picks up on this, should we put it in the (currently nonexistent) trivia area that his design is possibly an homage to said toy? [[User:YourBestPal|YourBestPal]] ([[User talk:YourBestPal|talk]]) 13:55, 25 June 2018 (EDT)

==female Decepticon==

A youtuber, AndySupreme99, claims that he saw the trailer at Cinemacon. He says that there is a female Decepticon. Have any of you seen the trailer he mentioned?

User:Puppetroblox

2018-07-02T11:15:13Z

Puppetroblox: Created page with "Hello! My contributions are below..."

Hello! My contributions are below...

Talk:Blast Off (G1)

2018-07-02T11:10:47Z

Puppetroblox: /* POTP Blast Off labeling */

Talk:Bumblebee (film)

2018-06-11T00:40:33Z

Puppetroblox: /* Is this really a reboot? */

Talk:Bumblebee (film)

2018-06-11T00:39:36Z

Puppetroblox: /* toyline? */

Talk:Bumblebee (film)

2018-06-11T00:29:34Z

Puppetroblox: /* toyline? */

User talk:Puppetroblox

2018-06-11T00:26:04Z

Puppetroblox:

User talk:Puppetroblox

2018-06-10T00:02:24Z

Puppetroblox:

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving

2018-06-09T23:54:05Z

Puppetroblox:

{{bigquote|We're movin' in!|[[Optimus Primal]]|"[[Optimal Situation]]"}}
*Transformers Wiki:To-do

Moving day! It took almost two full days, and it looks like we might have lost a few images in the process (User:Suki Brits is tracking down the errors responsible,) but we're here more-or-less intact.

Report any problems as you run into them!

==Congratulations==
A move well done as far as I can see. I've an image missing at [[Ark shuttlecraft]] but I have it on my laptop and will re-upload it later in the day. Otherwise, kudos and credit to all involved.

Incidentally, I didn't delete my user page at the ''other place'', and it now appears to link to my new user page here anyway. I'm not too bothered about it, but was it automatically wiped over there or do I need to go back and remove it manually? --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 09:19, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh, this all looking lovely. :D Glancing over some pages I worked on before the move, I see a few missing pictures, and [[Hydra (Masterforce)|Hydra]] doesn't appear to have come with us, but that's hardly the end of the world... - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 09:22, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

:Now I look at the upload log, I think images are still being added to the site. Maybe give it a day for them all to be uploaded before re-uploading them? --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 09:24, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

::Let me just congratulate you for finally getting it done first. We'll see about the problems later. First task for me: Sift through my last pre-database dump edits on the old Wiki and copy them over here.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 10:04, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

:::That may be challenging, as everything on the old Wiki seems to be redirecting here right now, leaving one unable to just click "Edit" and copy out the formatted text. I can't imagine Wikia will let this bit of sneakery last very long, though...? - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 10:14, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

::::Open links on the old Wiki with right clicks. Worked for me. I'm done there and am now fully here.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 10:34, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

:::::Ha, man, that redirect ''really'' didn't last, did it? - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 12:50, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Live long and prosper in your new home! [[User:GreenReaper|GreenReaper]] 10:40, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Congratulations on the move! I'm really liking the look of this place. [[User:Mink|Mink]] 11:09, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

I am loving the new skin [[User:Gspro15198|Gspro15198]] 13:00, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, indeed, congratulations and thanks for all your hard work! - [[User:Jarod|Jarod]]

==Problems==
<ul style="border: 2px dashed orange; padding: 0.5em 0.5em 0.5em 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><li>'''This server's ImageMagick makes a hash of .gifs (example: [[Spectro]], and cannot render .svg thumbnails.) This problem does not exist on the test server.'''

<ul style="list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; list-style-position: outside;"><li>The server also doesn't thumbnail animated gifs as animated gifs. (Wikia would,) but that's a lesser concern. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:47, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
:ImageMagick's now installed and running, or at least should be. Unfortunately, each image will need to be regenerated-- can the bot do that? It's probably too many to do manually, although can be done by going to the image page, and adding ?action=purge to the end of the URL. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 10:51, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

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<ul style="border: 2px dashed yellow; padding: 0.5em 0.5em 0.5em 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><li>'''Are we having search function troubles?'''

<ul style="list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; list-style-position: outside;"><li> The search tells me that "matrix of leadership" (no quotes) turns up no page title results. I've had other similar results this morning. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 15:40, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:I tried that string without any trouble. It could just be a caching thing; can you lemme know if that persists? --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 16:52, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
::It looks like a capitalization issue. I tried all lower case and got the same no page title results, and then tried with appropriate capital letters and it brought up the desired page.--[[Special:Contributions/65.7.68.222|65.7.68.222]] 20:29, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

:::mySQL matching queries (such as the one being used for this matching function) are ''supposed'' to be caseless by default... but I ran into an instance 2 months ago where we were switching servers where the ''new'' server was case-sensitive by ''default''. (It's very bizarre, yes?) We just adjusted the mySQL query to make it explicitly caseless because it'll never affect anything except user-entered matches like this. I don't recall the adjustment offhand... Suki, do you have FTP access yet? (Yes, she's been working magic all week with just command-lines. It ''amazes'' me.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:06, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
::::I'm absolutely at a loss here, because if I search for "matrix of leadership", it pulls up the right title match just fine. Are there any other strings I can test? A screenshot? I need ''something'' to work with, I can't reproduce this at ''all.'' It's crazy. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 17:26, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

:::::The behavior has changed recently, but is still at least partially broken. The search function is NOW returning case-independent links... but their SORT ORDER is inverted. (If you search for "matrix of Leadership," it is the LAST suggestion on the list-- if there were more links the 'closest match' article wouldn't even appear...) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:57, 19 September 2008 (EDT)
::::: ...okay, was gonna mention that this is still a problem, but looks like Derik beat me to the punch.... -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 19:35, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

:Um, speaking of search problems...it looks to me like the "search for text" function only brings up results for pages that have been edited since the move. --[[User:Greenygal|Greenygal]] 12:45, 2 October 2008 (EDT)

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<ul style="border: 2px dashed yellow; padding: 0.5em 0.5em 0.5em 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><li>'''<strike>Template recursion depth needs to be increased by at least 1.</strike> Mediawiki is throwing recursion errors for a single level of include suddenly. (Is happening on Wikipedia too.) This is a new/changed behavior.'''

<ul style="list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; list-style-position: outside;"><li>-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:48, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
:Do you remember how? Let me know what I need to change. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 01:52, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
::...I thought I did, but now that I'm looking up further, it looks like MediaWiki's default behavior has just changed in a recent version and it doesn't tolerate self-inclusion at all. You can see on [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Workpage/doc This page] how the documentation's self-including examples (which ''used'' to be valid.) are now throwing errors.

::I'm just gonna patch it for epnav and ask some Mediawiki ppl what's up with that... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:02, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

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<ul style="border: 2px dashed gray; padding: 0.5em 0.5em 0.5em 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><li>'''The edit/discussion/etc tabs miss the stuff they should line up with in Opera'''
<ul style="list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; list-style-position: outside;"><li>[[Image:Opera topbarglitches.png|<img alt="Image:Opera topbarglitches.png" title="Image:Opera topbarglitches.png" src="/w2/images2/9/9b/Opera_topbarglitches.png" border="0" height="50" width="500">]]<br>Note the pixel gap under the tabs. Also notice that the little Earth crashes into the left side of the red bar, and is cut off at the bottom. - [[User:Reboot|Reboot]] 16:55, 16 September 2008 (UTC)</li box></ul box>

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<ul style="border: 2px dashed gray; padding: 0.5em 0.5em 0.5em 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><li>'''"I-Beam" (text pointer) on Navigation Panel'''

<ul style="list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; list-style-position: outside;"><li>When I hover my mouse over the links on the left hand menu I get an I-Beam mouse pointer rather than the usual pointy hand. Not a major problem but it looks odd - [[User:Omnisvalidus|Omnisvalidus]] 16:15, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
:I cannot reproduce this issue. Which browser are you in?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 16:17, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
::IE7 - I don't have any problems with other sites so far as I know but I will browse around a bit and see if it crops up on other sites and points to a problem at my end. - [[User:Omnisvalidus|Omnisvalidus]] 16:24, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

:::I have just checked on another machine running IE7 and the same thing happens there too. I checked both machines with Google Chrome and everything is normal with that. I can't find any other web sites with the same issues so it seems to be an issue with this site and IE7! Is anyone else seeing this??? - [[User:Omnisvalidus|Omnisvalidus]] 18:45, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
::::Yeah, it's doing it for me at work with IE7. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:10, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
::::It's doing it for me at work on IE7, and at home on IE6. --[[User:Salt-Man Z|Salt-Man Z]] 01:42, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::Should we wait until everything is definite and working before patching the articles? [[User:GWolfv2|GWolfv2]] 02.20 GMT 17 Sep 2008 (UTC)
:::::I ''think'' I've fixed this, but I don't have access to IE7. Can someone confirm? --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 02:07, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

::::::*fires up IE*
::::::Confirmed fixed on IE7 (although, is the hover-highlight meant to wipe out the right-hand border? It looks weird) - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 02:36, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

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<ul style="border: 2px dashed yellow; padding: 0.5em 0.5em 0.5em 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><li>'''Site's name is wrong! (page title)'''

<ul style="list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; list-style-position: outside;"><li>The localSetting for the site's name ($wgSitename) should be changed to 'TFwiki.net' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:49, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

:The details of this are complicated and frustrating, but the bottom line is this is now fixed. And took several hours of searching for a solution. I am not happy. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 17:26, 19 September 2008 (EDT)
::Er- is this is fixed, why does {{SITENAME}} still produce "Transformers Wiki"? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:57, 19 September 2008 (EDT)
:::The consensus on Transformers Wiki talk:Ads was to set the site's name to "TFWiki.net - The Transformers Wiki" for now. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:06, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

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<ul style="border: 2px dashed orange; padding: 0.5em 0.5em 0.5em 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><li>'''Go Boxes get locked on most individual pages.'''

<ul style="list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; list-style-position: outside;"><li> The random gobox inage and link does not change when a page is refreshed or visited later. (example: go to a Random Page. The Go Box that loads will be loaded any other time you visit that page unless you clear your cache). --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 15:55, 20 September 2008 (EDT)
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<ul style="border: 2px dashed yellow; padding: 0.5em 0.5em 0.5em 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><li>'''Monobook left column is borked in IE7'''

<ul style="list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; list-style-position: outside;"><li>The left column in Monobook on IE7 (with no custom CSS applied) has a huge gap between the column and the content area, because the content area is in the same place/is the same size as in "Monacobook", despite the much narrower left column. This does not affect Firefox 2 or Opera 9. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 23:10, 20 September 2008 (EDT)
:Oops, sorry, my bad. I know exactly what's causing this. It should be fixed now. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 10:51, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

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===Resolved problems===
<ul style="border: 2px dashed green; padding: 0.5em 0.5em 0.5em 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><li>'''The logs/galleries/users section on RecentChanges is missing.'''

<ul style="list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; list-style-position: outside;"><li>Solution: Update [[MediaWiki:Recentchangestext]] to include the links. (Replace witht he text from MediaWiki talk:Recentchangestext... needs an sysop to do the port.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:57, 19 September 2008 (EDT)
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<ul style="border: 2px dashed green; padding: 0.5em 0.5em 0.5em 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><li>'''I routed aroudn this problem on doc, but doing the same on the episode nav would cause problems. I'm gonna leave it for 24 hours and see if the problem can get fixes. :( -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:17, 17 September 2008 (UTC)'''

:I ''think'' this should be fixed now. Can you confirm? --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 01:52, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
::ifexist is currently "WORKING." FYI? It wasn't working on the test server either--- so the problem lies with this MW install, not the server.
::I'm gonna poke my own install (where it works) and compare it to the test server (where it doesn't) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 09:15, 22 September 2008 (EDT)
:::add the following lines to LocalSettings.php. (50 is an arbitrary number, it's currently set to 0.)
:::<tt>## Expensive Parser Function limit must be > 1 for #ifExist:
</tt>:::<tt>$wgExpensiveParserFunctionLimit = 50;</tt>

:::-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:06, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::::Suki = awesome. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 11:01, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

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<ul style="border: 2px dashed green; padding: 0.5em 0.5em 0.5em 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><li>'''User Javascript pages are broken'''

<ul style="list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; list-style-position: outside;"><li>MediaWiki is linking to my user javascript page (the script tag in in the HTML) but there's a typo in the url--, the &'s are rendering as &'s (and thus causing it not to load.)
This is rather annoying since I've been wanting to work on some JS stuff. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:10, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
:*smacks forehead*Okay, the markup ''is'' odd, but the include is working... I've just been banging my head up against a DIFFERENT issue all week. ...let's pretend this never happened. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 06:09, 20 September 2008 (EDT)
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<ul style="border: 2px dashed gray; padding: 0.5em 0.5em 0.5em 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><li>'''We appear to be missing the last week's worth of edits.'''

<ul style="list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; list-style-position: outside;"><li> Nothing after September 8th shows up. Do we just have to eat it, or... ? -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 12:41, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:It takes like 12 hours minimum just to perform an import. And if the archive we got Saturday wasn't up to date- there's no real reason to assume a new one would be any moreso. I'm assuming we have to eat it and patch by hand. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 12:45, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

:: *sigh*I was afraid of that... -- [[Special:Contributions/99.146.195.12|99.146.195.12]] 14:03, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:::I already ported over all of my own post-September 8 updates from the old Wiki by hand. Which were about half a dozen, so it wasn't ''that'' difficult. If anyone just ported over his or her latest changes from the old Wiki, that'd be less fixing-trouble for others.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 14:15, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

::::Roger that, seems I lost [[Nautilus]], [[Hopper]] and a few others...I'll get on it tonight or tomorrow and port my last few changes over --[[Special:Contributions/81.141.34.109|81.141.34.109]] 14:28, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::on the old wiki some one said about this thing called curl which will transfer over any data we missed, shall we use that?[[Special:Contributions/212.74.27.54|212.74.27.54]] 12:41, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::At his point, it's gonna have to be a manual porting. :( -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:57, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

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<ul style="border: 2px dashed green; padding: 0.5em 0.5em 0.5em 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><li>'''Default site time is set for GMT'''

<ul style="list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; list-style-position: outside;"><li>Set the site for East Cost time (Consensus when issue was last discussed, it's where Rhode Island is.) The first example on [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Timezone this page] seems to cover the needed setting changes. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 09:49, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

:Done, I think. Someone needs to confirm, I already set my timezone. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 17:26, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

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<ul style="border: 2px dashed gray; padding: 0.5em 0.5em 0.5em 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><li>'''The foreign-language links @ the bottom of the main page don't work.'''

<ul style="list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; list-style-position: outside;"><li>I commented them out. (Do we care? At all? Yes we do so we will get right on it!) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 09:39, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
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<ul style="border: 2px dashed green; padding: 0.5em 0.5em 0.5em 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><li>'''Monobook logo is hotlinked from Wikia'''

<ul style="list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; list-style-position: outside;"><li> Currently, if you select Monobook (and haven't customised Monobook.css to change the logo), it hotlinks to the image [http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Wiki-old.png here] (I tried uploading the current TFWiki.net corner image over the same image here, given the wiki name is TFWiki.net and not Teletraan I, but that was how I found out about the hotlink.).<br><br>The kludges involving CSS overwriting of the default images should probably be removed anyway... - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 03:37, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed! Well, sort of. If you want regular Monobook to have a different logo than the default skin, then you ''have'' to do it via CSS. As far as I'm aware, the default logo set is universal. But I figured we want the new one anyway. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 01:52, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

::Well, yeah - I was suggesting that the ''default'' logo should be universal :). [And not hotlinked, duh] - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 02:40, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

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<ul style="border: 2px dashed green; padding: 0.5em 0.5em 0.5em 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><li>'''I miss the clickable shortcuts (like <nowiki> at the bottom of the editing window.'''

<ul style="list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; list-style-position: outside;"><li>Suggest porting over [http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/MediaWiki:Edittools EditTools] system-string. (Probably requires javascritp to support it, may require php changes...?) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 09:52, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:We have the "CharInsert" extension installed, so simply porting over the [http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/MediaWiki:Edittools Wikia] or [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Edittools Mediawiki] EditTools page ''should'' work. (Editing this page here requires an admin.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:05, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

::Could we also have the extra characters (at least the macrons) show up? Of course, I'm probably the only one who uses them, but it'd be nice to not have to copy and paste them. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 04:35, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Done! Including the macrons. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 02:07, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

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<ul style="border: 2px dashed green; padding: 0.5em 0.5em 0.5em 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><li>'''The "Wheremi" template (used by the old epnav) is bitching about recursion errors.'''

<ul style="list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; list-style-position: outside;"><li>(It wasn't doing this on the test server.) We should just transition epnav into using the TV-utilities template instead of wheremi. (have been putting it off.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 09:39, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

:Because of the problem Also affects the TV-util template, wheremi has been recurse-escaped for now. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:57, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

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<ul style="border: 2px dashed green; padding: 0.5em 0.5em 0.5em 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><li>'''Login problems'''

<ul style="list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; list-style-position: outside;"><li> I don't know if this happening to anyone else, but I can't log in. Do I have to create a new account or what? Someone give me some info. BTW, I had to manually put in the link to my page.--[[User:AWT88|AWT88]]
:You essentially have to recreate your ''old'' account. IE, create a "new" account with the same username and password. It'll run a quick check against Wikia's login to make sure you're not fibbing, and then you're in business.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 16:33, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

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<ul style="border: 2px dashed green; padding: 0.5em 0.5em 0.5em 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><li>'''Watchlist is empty'''

<ul style="list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; list-style-position: outside;"><li> I can see my old Contributions, but my Watchlist is now empty. Do I need to retag the pages I want to see updates for, or can I restore the old Watchlist somehow? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] 19:44, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:Go over to wikia, call up the watchlist, click "edit raw watchlist", copy the list, edit the raw watchlist here and paste. Done! --mendel ([[Special:Contributions/84.128.224.164|84.128.224.164]] 22:22, 15 September 2008 (UTC))
::::::::::::::Beauty. Thanks! --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] 16:04, 16 September 2008 (UTC)</li box></ul box>

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<ul style="border: 2px dashed green; padding: 0.5em 0.5em 0.5em 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><li>'''We cannot upload .ogg files. (Suki needs to add them to the permitted file extensions list.)'''

<ul style="list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; list-style-position: outside;"><li> -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:04, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
</li box></ul box>
</li box></ul box>
<ul style="border: 2px dashed green; padding: 0.5em 0.5em 0.5em 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><li>'''The left-hand navigation is covering a lot of the content'''

<ul style="list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; list-style-position: outside;"><li> I don't know if it's common for everyone but it is quite problematic. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 13:57, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:Dito here on a narrow-screened work computer. -- [[Special:Contributions/99.146.195.12|99.146.195.12]] 14:03, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:: (that was me.) -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 14:05, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Well my resolution is 1024x768 and I'm using IE6... So I don't see why the left-hand navigation is so screwy... --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 14:11, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

::::Same here, also on IE6. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 14:19, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

:I haven't gotten a chance to look at it in IE6 yet. I'll get to that. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 16:05, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
::Looks like you just made the sidebar wider to enclose the Search box? That works. Also: the random article image is broken, and the Toolbox links are (oddly) double-spaced. --[[User:Salt-Man Z|Salt-Man Z]] 17:33, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Woo! It works both at work and at home for me now. Looks like that's fully resolved. [[Special:Contributions/69.255.158.72|69.255.158.72]] 22:36, 15 September 2008 (UTC)</li box></ul box>

</li box></ul box>
<ul style="border: 2px dashed green; padding: 0.5em 0.5em 0.5em 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><li>'''I'm having trouble editing my profile back on Wikia!'''

<ul style="list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; list-style-position: outside;"><li>Try turning off Javascript. (This redirect lasts until the 16th.)
</li box></ul box>
</li box></ul box>
<ul style="border: 2px dashed green; padding: 0.5em 0.5em 0.5em 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><li>'''Our Favicon is broken.'''

<ul style="list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; list-style-position: outside;"><li>Can I request we get a ''different'' one while we're transitioning? (Or change Wikia's?) I've gonna be jumping back and forth a lot, and the visual cue would he helpful. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 09:52, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

</li box></ul box>
</li box></ul box>
<ul style="border: 2px dashed green; padding: 0.5em 0.5em 0.5em 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><li>'''Links to [[wikipedia:Transformers|Wikipedia]] are broken. (And probably inter-wikia links.)'''

<ul style="list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; list-style-position: outside;"><li>Shooooould be fixed now. The one thing is that you'll need to resave articles for the interwiki links in them to work right. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 17:13, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
</li box></ul box>
</li box></ul box>
<ul style="border: 2px dashed green; padding: 0.5em 0.5em 0.5em 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><li>'''Our GFDL notice is insufficiently prominent.'''

<ul style="list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; list-style-position: outside;"><li>We should edit [[MediaWiki:Copyrightwarning]] to be more like the phrasing from [http://transformers.wikia.com/index.php%3Ftitle%3DMediaWiki%3ACopyrightwarning Wikia's notice]. (Requires admin) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 10:55, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:Well, ''don't'' look at me! I don't seem to be a Sysop here yet! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 11:08, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
::More importantly, I've got the GFDL notice in the footer now. Somebody else can worry about [[MediaWiki:Copyrightwarning]]. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 16:52, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

</li box></ul box>
</li box></ul box>
<ul style="border: 2px dashed green; padding: 0.5em 0.5em 0.5em 1em; margin-bottom: 1em;"><li>'''Sysops have not been re-sysop'd yet. (Probably because not enough users had re-registered when Suki went to bed.)'''

<ul style="list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; list-style-position: outside;"><li>Sysops who ''are'' registered: [[User:Chris McFeely]]
:Everyone except Walky's been given their sysop privileges. Walky gets none because <s>I'm usurping his position</s> he has no power so hasn't reregistered yet. It may take a bit of time. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 16:52, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

::[http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Special%3AListusers&username=&group=sysop&limit=50 5 sysops], 2 bureaucrats, all accounted for. Resolved. -- mendel [[Special:Contributions/84.128.192.191|84.128.192.191]] 18:32, 25 September 2008 (EDT)</li box></ul box>

</li box></ul box>

== Important: License ==
Where do I find information on the license the new Wiki is working under? I'm being told that using articles created under GNU HAVE to be used under GNU again, anything else would be ILLEGAL. Is that correct? I'm also being told that Wikia could sue us if we were using their texts without a GNU license even if every single author from the Wikia Wiki were to agree with the move.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 10:41, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

:[[Transformers Wiki:Copyrights|Project:Copyrights]] - Last paragraph of the last section. This Wiki's contents are GFDL.
:And AFAIK, Wikia doesn't own any rights to the material except the right to use it... I think only an ''editor'' whose content was misappropriated in a non-GFDL way could sue us. Wikia isn't a content-creator any more than Geocities is a fanfic-writer. (Did you hear this wikia-could-sue-us think anywhere specific?)
:We do need to make the GFDL notice more prominent though... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 10:47, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
::Yes. I'm being told the information needs to be EASILY FINDABLE from every single page on the Wiki.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 10:51, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

:::...like by clicking on the "Project:Copyrights" link at the bottom of each page while editing?
:::I ask- because the pages on '''Wikia itself''' have no notices that they are part of GFDL when just viewing them, it's only there while editing them.
:::Allow me to repeat my politely-worded inquiry in a non yes-or-no fashion? Who is saying this? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 10:59, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
::::German Transformers website owner. Also a very hot-headed guy who will complain about stuff nobody else would even notice. (He appears to be right, though. GDFL specifically requires you to put texts under GDFL again.)
::::The easiest way to solve this would be to add the GDFL note on the bottom of each page, next to "Privacy Policy", "About Transformers Wiki" and the currently empty-page "Disclaimers".--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 11:16, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

:::::From a ''legal'' standpoint- we ''already'' are putting the text under GFDL. It says so right on our Copyrights page. (Which in turn in linked to whenever you're editing a page.) There was never any discussion of making the content non-GFDL. The exact terms of GFDL were discussed when we were first getting ready to move, to make sure we knew exactly what we had to do.
:::::As for how ''prominent'' the notice is... I agree, it should be more prominent, just liek it is on wikia. Makign that adjustment is on our to-do list in the section above this one, and the change will be made shortly. Tell him to take a chill pill. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 11:35, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::How about simply putting it into the [[Transformers Wiki:General disclaimer|general disclaimer]] linked on the bottom of every page? The disclaimer is currently empty anyways.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 11:46, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

:::::::So, [[Transformers Wiki:General disclaimer|this]] is at least a temporary solution.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 12:04, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::::Good call. Wikia makes one of its footer notes do the same thing. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 12:06, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

== The "Enhanced" Recent Changes page ==
Was that proprietary to Wikia, or is there a CSS/JS mod we can install to facilitate porting it over here? Because lemmetellya, that saved me some work tracking edits.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 15:35, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

:It's just not on by default. I believe you can turn it on in your preferences. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 15:47, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

::Aha! Excellent!--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 15:50, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Problem: Attempting to expand a collapsed list of changes gets me an error page stating, "'''RCI1'''<br>
:::There is currently no text in this page, you can search for this page title in other pages or edit this page."--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 17:35, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
::::Is it still showing up like that? I'm not able to replicate it. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 20:54, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::It still shows up for me, yes. I've managed to upload an image here. (Maybe this means my trouble with the image for Megatron's page has passed?)--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 21:43, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

::::::Well, problem solved somehow. I abruptly realized it might be due to NoScript running on this computer, so I told it to allow tfwiki.net. That had no effect the first time. Either the computer didn't listen or the scripts were somehow changed later on, because I just had to allow the site's scripts again. THIS time, it fixed the problem, so now I can expand collapsed change lists as before. Ooh, and I see we now have the formatting shortcut buttons above the edit window again! Ah, one-touch signatures are here again...--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 04:00, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

==IE7==
Sadly, this is what I'm forced to use at work, and the sidebar is all screwed up there. All the sidebar is pushed under the article window, excpet for the search bar, which ends up OVER the article window, obscuring text. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 16:03, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

:As noted above, you're not the only one (and yeah, it's drivin' me nuts.) Suki is looking into it. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 16:54, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
::I actually tanted to talk with... Suki and Rosicrucian... about making vanilla monobook a selectable skin along with our custom version of it, for exactly this sort of reason. (Though I'm not cure what that entails...) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:47, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:::It's fairly easy to add skins, really. I was hoping we could do such with Deceptibook as well.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:59, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
::::So you know how to add skins so they'ee selectable in the Mediawiki preferences...? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:28, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

:::::In fact I do. I researched it when I was farting around in Monobook. Details [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Skins here].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 18:35, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Personally, I would suggest that the skin variant be called "Autobook," for symmetry with "Deceptibook."--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 19:38, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

:Right now it has another name, but I'm willing to rename it. I've fixed the worst problems with IE, I think-- but all the same, regular vanilla Monobook is also available as a user skin. You can change it in your preferences. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 20:37, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
::I just like the idea of having Autobot and Decepticon versions of the same skin. It warms the cockles of my little geewun-raised heart.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 20:39, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

== Missing Images ==
Should we go ahead and reupload them? [[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:05, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:: No. These images might have been removed because they contain copyrighted content.

== Moving Pains ==
Okay, reregistered without incident, it seems. My personal edit history is gone (as I suspect is the case for everyone), but c'est la vie.<br>
I mentioned this on [[Megatron (Animated)|Megatron]]'s discussion page, but when I ported over a big edit I prepped just before the move, I found, among other things, an image SFH had uploaded was missing. When I downloaded it and tried to re-upload, I got an error message, saying the image couldn't be renamed.<br>

In addition, the handy little tool tabs (bold, italicize, signature, etc.) that were at the top of the edit windows previously aren't here. Granted, doing such things manually isn't difficult if you know what to do, but we don't have the Handy Tips for Newbies box visible, so they may be left in the dark.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 16:10, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

: Everyone's contributions lists still exist, actually... the only thing off is the number of edits in your Preferences thingy. [[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:15, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

:**Ignore - found the answer**
::Hm...odd. Okay, they're all still there, all right. Wiki's being darned slow calling up the pages, though. Could be server troubles resulting from the storms. (Speaking of which, hope Walky gets electricity again soon.) So that just leaves the problem of being unable to upload the image.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 17:40, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:::The server's been alternately slow and fast all night- I'm blaming the rolling DNS re-routes unless the problem persists through Wednesday. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:48, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

== Usernames ==
It claims that my old account doesn't exist here, so I'm using the name Spin-Out until we get the old members back. So... Do we need new names, or are our old accounts still up? Just asking.

:I just found the same thing. The answer is buried away further up the page. You need to recreate your account using the same username and password. I have just tried it and it works. [[User:Omnisvalidus|Omnisvalidus]] 16:45, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

== Scorched Earth ==
So, will the Defenistration-tagged stuff at the old site need to be manually deleted, or can we set a bot onto it? -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 17:13, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

:'bot doesn't have delete-permissions. Ops are gonna have to do it manually.
:You're welcome to start with mine if you like. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:49, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

::DONE. --<s>[[Special:Contributions/24.235.158.104|24.235.158.104]]</s>[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 01:38, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

==Our new logo==
Um... should we not remove the "Teletraan-1" from it? --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 17:37, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

:We can, very easily. I just wasn't asked to.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:40, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
::I don't know if I have the authority to ask, but I think it should be a top priority for it to say "TFwiki.net" ASAP. (As far as I could tell, that was the majority pick.) - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 18:55, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:::I still don't see what's wrong with Teletraan-1. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 19:05, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
::::Do you want to have [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving#new_name|this conversation]] all over again? I think all the reasons for and against every option have been well explained, and the majority support seems to be for "TFwiki.net". (By the way, the Main Page HTML title still says "Teletraan I" too.) - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 21:13, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

:::::I can have this changed in a heartbeat when I get home from work. I just need specifics. It can have "TFWiki.net", it can have nothing in particular. It can have Monzo's birthday. Just let me know ''what''.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 21:30, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::I don't recall a general consensus having been reached... nor do I recall any admins agreeing to the name. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:32, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::After "TFwiki.net" was suggested, by my count the vote was:
::::::8 for TFwiki.net
::::::2 for Teletraan II (it looks like 3 at first, but Zadok Rox changed his vote to TFwiki.net)
::::::1 for Vector Sigma, Teletraan I, or Underbase.
::::::If we count you right now, then we can move that last number up to 2. Still pretty far down. Considering how long the discussion has been open and how much was said about it, I'm happy to call it done. But I've made [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving#Vote_for_the_new_name|a new section]] to have a more official vote right now and settle it for good. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 22:27, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

I know that I'm sorta the go-to for issues related to the move right now, so I would just like to state for the record that-- after having spent the better part of the last three days working out the technical details of the move-- I have absolutely zero opinion on the matter. The logo isn't protected, anyone can update it, preferably without my involvement. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 22:14, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

:Since I'm about to be off to work and away from image editing software, I've uploaded a version of the logo that says "TFWiki.net" instead of "Teletraan-I." It can easily be reverted if this was premature, but this seemed to be the current consensus.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 15:42, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

== Images.... vanishing? ==
So Emvee edited [[Nightbeat (G1)|Nightbeat]]'s article and pointed out in his edit summary that an image was missing. So I went to the old Wiki, saved it and re-uploaded it here... only to find that as soon as I did, ''two'' other images of Nightbeat disappeared! What the heck is going on? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 17:37, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

:Good question-- Suki reported there were some odd errors during the image import process. I imagine this is the cause. It shall be tracked down... eventually. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:55, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
::I've spotted a few, and they're rather easy to re-upload, but the pattern of what images are missing is so damn random that you pretty much have to stumble upon them. Can we get a script or bot edit to fixamatazz this?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 05:39, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
:::A good starting point would be the [http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Special:ImageList ImageList]. --mendel([[Special:Contributions/84.128.221.113|84.128.221.113]] 06:26, 16 September 2008 (UTC))
::::See Transformers Wiki:Wikia file list, Transformers Wiki:Wikia file list 2|Wikia file list 2 and Transformers Wiki:Wikia file list 3|Wikia file list 3 for active lists of existing and missing files. --mendel ([[Special:Contributions/84.128.221.113|84.128.221.113]] 07:12, 16 September 2008 (UTC))

::::: Thankee for that! I further went through those lists and culled out a page with just the red-linked images on it for further noting. Whenever someone re-uploads an image, it'll turn into the little preview like the first image on that page.
::::: Whenever the last red-linked image is uploaded, could whoever does it leave a message either here or on my talk page? [[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 15:18, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::: I edited my 3 lists to have "just the red links" as well; they load faster, stress the server less, and have wikia links to click directly to the wikia image page. --mendel ([[Special:Contributions/84.128.240.196|84.128.240.196]] 20:02, 16 September 2008 (UTC))

Doesn't sound like the ''same'' problem, but the images on [[Spectro]], [[Spyglass]] and [[Viewfinder]]'s pages are all pretty bad-looking. Like a transparent JPG that was put on an incorrect background....--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 23:50, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

::::::::::::::: Deceptitran's been using [[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]]'s page (scraping it, and gathering all the red links.) And it looks to be mostly demolished. (About 450 images.) Are there more missing images hiding elsewhere?-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:57, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

:: Looks like these are the only files that can't get ported over: Media:Favicon.ico, Media:Introdump_bwep1_thepain.ogg, Media:MÃ¡rcio_Seixas.jpg, Media:Tf_sound.ogg, Media:Windrazor.ogg

:::Favicon.ico wouldn't upload because it was a renamed .png file. I've uploaded it as a old version of [[Image:Favicon.png]]. Image:Media:MÃ¡rcio_Seixas.jpg is actually [[Image:Márcio Seixas.jpg]]. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 19:48, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

:: Guess some files got a bit mangled in the saving/reuploading process, though... [[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:54, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
:::they can be- Suki just has to make 'em allowed file types. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:57, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

::::Oops, I thought I already had. Done. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 00:36, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::I just uploaded the missing OGGs, then, and it seems everything else either isn't really missing or was deleted anyway, so... I think that's it for missing files! Yay! --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 01:00, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::[[Image:Trackscruc2.jpg]] is currently missing.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 12:57, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::::Re-uploaded. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 13:08, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

==Image uploading==
I've been trying to upload some images that I was holding off on and I can't seem to upload them. Is this a growing pain that will be fixed or is it something else we should worry about? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 18:44, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

:Suki is all- "Hrm. How interesting." (But also at work I think.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:50, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
::I'm working on it. Can you upload one of the files that won't upload somewhere else for me to try? I'm trying to work on this from the backend, but I'll need something to test with. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 19:58, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
::Hey, it works now! -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 20:32, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

== "We are currently working on X articles" ==
On the main page... links to [[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaTRANSFORMERS.htm|[1]]]--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 22:02, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

:More oddly, it seems to think there are only 10 articles on this wiki.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 22:18, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

==Vote for the new name==
The [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving#new_name|cases have been made]], so let's cast our votes. What do we call this wiki? Just write your preferred name and sign it:

:TFwiki.net - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 22:27, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:TFwiki.net --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 22:31, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

:Teletraan I --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 22:33, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:TfWiki.net -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:36, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:TFwiki.net, if we get to do the whole TF-knowledge-entity-based rotating subtitle or fake disambiguation thing at some point. (I thought that was a funny idea/compromise, at least...) Otherwise, Vector Sigma. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:39, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:TFwiki.net (with the 'too much knowledge' Underbase quote in there somewhere) - [[User:Tribimat|Tribimat]] 22:41, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:.....are my eyes deceiving me, or did the name of the old site change in the last few hours? If they're not using TT1, why shouldn't we? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 23:54, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

:TFwiki.net --[[User:Mink|Mink]] 00:12, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
:Teletraan I, because oldwiki seems to have dumped the name. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 01:16, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
:Teletraan I, because it seems appropriate now we've got the old skin back, and reclaimed the pic of the Ark's computer in the corner. I'm cool with TFwiki.net, <strike>though</strike> however, and I rather like Derik's point in the next section: this ''is'' the TF Wiki. --[[User:Blitzflipper|Blitzflipper]] 13:10, 16 September 2008 (UTC)<br>

:If the old wiki did drop the name, then I'm for Teletraan 1. --[[User:Professor Icepick|Professor Icepick]] 15:11, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
:TFwiki.net--[[User:Dave|Dave]] 15:19, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
:Teletraan I—[[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:11, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
:Considering Wikia's complete scumfuck actions, up to making the move notice on the old site "oh it's just a ''backup server'' at those addresses cough cough", using the old name is a '''BAD IDEA'''. This needs to be a BREAK from Wikia, and part of that is a new name. Plus, nobody fucking calls the place anything but "the TF wiki" anyway. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 17:08, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

::^ this. With the swearing. --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 17:36, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
::I agree with Siph. Although I actually LIKE "Teletraan I," we need to do something different. Even if Wikia goes with something else eventually (or already?), we need to do whatever we can to say "we're not them." TFwiki.net (or TFwiki.info) is as good as anything else I've seen, and better than names like "The Allspark" that, while appropriate, are too easily confused with ''other'' sites.--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 22:11, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

:Teletraan I or TFwiki.net, I'm just going to keep calling it Teletraan I personaly so it's easier to remember for me.--[[User:AutobotFreak643|AutobotFreak643]] 17:35, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
:I like TFWiki.net -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 04:34, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

:Teletraan || or TFwiki.net, i like both but i think Teletraan | if wikia changes the name of the old wiki oh and is it possible to have that fake disambugation link on the main page (i think its meant to be like "welcome to tfwiki.net the transformers wiki for the alien resource about transformers see vector sigma the transformers wiki" bla bla bla) [[Special:Contributions/81.108.233.59|81.108.233.59]] 15:02, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

===And our new name is...===
According to [http://shortpacked.livejournal.com/411604.html Walky's press release,] "the newly independent wiki now goes by the name TFWIKI.NET". If people still disagree, of course it's a free Internet and we can keep discussing. But the branding process has officially begun. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 16:48, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

:And as you can see, the masthead has long since been adjusted accordingly.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 16:59, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
::Indeed, thank you. I didn't mean to diminish your contribution - it's just that a logo can be switched back easily (as you said when you made the new one), but you can't un-send a press release. We have now undeniably begun the march in a new direction. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 17:04, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
::Unfortunately, the "Title" tag (shows up at the top of most browsers) still says "Transformers Wiki - Teletraan I"--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 18:23, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

:::Suki needs to change that in our settings file. Easily adjustable. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:46, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Incidentally, I only notice this problem on the main page. Other pages seem Teletraan-free (at least in this regard).--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 15:29, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

==The Wikia site's name==
People are starting to say that the Wikia site is dropping the name "Teletraan I", but I'd like to know what the evidence is. What I see is that the text on the Main Page has been changed to just "Transformers Wiki", but the HTML page-title, logo, navigation menu, and improvement-drive title all still say "Teletraan I". Unless there's some more fundamental change that I don't know about, it looks halfhearted and easily reversible to me. So it could easily just STAY the way it is, with "Teletraan I" still plastered in prominent ways, or they could even decide they like the name after all and retype "Teletraan I" in the few places it's been excised.

And there's the rub, when it comes do our decision here: Whatever they end up doing, we have no control over. The one name that we know they CAN'T use is our URL.

- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 03:09, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

:IIRC They offered to change thw name for us back in the day if we wanted. (We did not.) I doubt they're gonan change the sit's name unless whoever end up in charge requests it.
:(I think we should go with TFWiki.net for just that reason-- let Wikia be the site that has to use a funny name to identify itself. We are '''the''' TF Wiki, no further disambiguation needed. They are also-ran.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:15, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

:''And there's the rub, when it comes do our decision here: Whatever they end up doing, we have no control over. ''

:Given the behavior exhibited by Wikia in the last 24 hours -- de-opping all admins less than a day after the move, sending over a "helper" to "improve" things (in a most hilariously inept fashion), repeatedly reverting the move notice to something that completely fails to convey what's happened -- I think this is the crucial point. Wikia clearly regards us with animosity at this point, and I would not put it beyond them to pull further tricks.

:I would ''love'' to keep Teletraan-1 as our name. It's a great name, and I think as such it helps build the sense of community. But with the move, it's become untenable. We are TFWiki now, like it or not. Let's run with it. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 17:15, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Hm. Just noticed [http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Teletraan_I_Wiki another place] where they haven't removed "Teletraan I". I have a feeling the name is buried in all sorts of nooks and crannies, and even if they want to change it (which I still see little evidence of), it'll take a fair bit of dedication and manpower to do a thorough scouring job. Of course, we would need to do that same thing if we changed ''our'' name, but I think we've got the dedication-and-manpower thing covered better than they do. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 03:17, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

== "MonacoBook"? Really? ==
Now, my custom skin transferred, so I'm pretty much set (should probably change a couple of things, but still...), but trying to mimic Monaco? REALLY?! - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 16:26, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

:I think it's only so named for the text style in the sidebar. I've suggested it be renamed to "Autobook" as it is the Autobot variation of two skins I did on this theme.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 16:30, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

::Well, I was surprised at the Monaco-styled elements like the sidebar (the name was "gravy"). I thought we wanted to get '''away''' from that stuff... (it cuts a bit close to saying "you were right" to them, no?). - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 16:39, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
:::They WERE right about a few things-- the look of their sidebar was earnestly a good idea and I even liked it at the time. I'll change the name to what Rosicrucian said when I get to making the Autobot and Decepticon skins seperate, at least for the skins themselves; but I DEFINITELY like the idea of taking the only good ideas from Monaco. The only unique things Wikia has now are faults. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 16:54, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, sorry for nagging on that. I'll have the Decepticon logo ready tonight. I just did up the Autobot one this morning before I left for work.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:30, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

:Shouldn't it be the G2 Autobot (and Decepticon) logos if the G2 Autobot logo is the site favicon, BTW? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:41, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

==Advertizing?==
So. I assume that we're going to have some real ads up soonish. What are we looking at... Project Wonderful? Google? A combination? We should probably have some ads lines up, especially if we're going to advterize the split with any level of aggression and up our hits... --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:20, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

:I have attempted to start up discussion at Transformers Wiki talk:Ads (natch).--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 21:45, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

==Image degradation?==
On the [[Battle Beasts]] page, the thumbnail image of Blackthorne #1 seems to have had its colors reversed or oversaturated or SOMETHING done wrong to it. The full resolution image is normal. What gives? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 23:50, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

:Our thumbnailer doesn't handle gifs as cleanly as wikias does. (It's also causing trouble on the [[Star Upper (BWII)|Star Upper]] page.)
:If you converted it to a .png, it's probably work better... but we really ''ought'' to fix the problem at the source for long-term reasons. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:54, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
::It seems to be interpreting black pixels as transparent. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 23:55, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
:::I think the bigger issue is that it turns GIFs into smaller GIFs with the same colour list by a "nearest neighbour" algorithm. IIRC, Wikia's thumbnailer thumbnails GIFs as full-colour, resampled PNGs. The Battle Beasts full-size cover already has black as transparent. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 00:03, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

::::Wikia's thumbnailer didn't do that to animated .gifs though. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:06, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::Well, animated GIFs are a special, evil, case, yes? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 00:07, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::My MW install doesn't have this problem and it's signifigantly older. I suspect it's just a setting in the thumbnailer. 'll try and track down what flag we need to set to make the problem go away. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:10, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

:Also, whis setup doesn't like the old Image:Favicon.ico . I keep getting the "corrupt filename" notice. That, and we don't have .ogg or .svg support yet. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 23:59, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
::Keep a list of the .ogg and .svg's handy, won't you? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:01, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
:::I have a [[User:FortMax/images|list]] of the images that spit out errors or won't upload. Others that show up as red links were because of nameing issues. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 00:21, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

The degradation is '''not''' present on the original test server, so it's not a mediawiki setting causing the problem... it's something with this server's ImageMagick. I have no idea how to adjust that, but I'm guessing Suki does. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:45, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

:I don't think ImageMagick is even installed. I don't actually have the power to do that; I'll try to get ahold of the person who does, but... well, it might take a few days, given the hurricane. I know what the issue is and as soon as he's available, it '''should''' be easy to deal with. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 01:37, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

==Links in==
It should be noted that a lot of other sites have links in to the old Wikia site to pages that only exist here now like [[GEEWUN]] and such. Someone or ones might want to make a concerted effort to clean up sites like http://tvtropes.org of links to the deprecated wiki. -- [[Special:Contributions/70.174.10.244|70.174.10.244]] 11:59, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

==Aggressive linking/advertising the site==
As has been noted, one of the hurdles we have is of google ranking. We need to make sure this place is getting linked to. Suggestion time, and these are things I think '''''everyone here should do'''''.

:*WEBBOARD SIGNATURES: Put an active link to http://www.tfwiki.net in your signature for any messageboard you belong to. For those with better knowledge of Google than I... will the fact that this then puts ''hundreds'', if not ''thousands'' of active links up (depending on your post count and the archives and all that) per person help, even if the pages are old? And the more you make ''new'' posts with that sig-link should ''definitely'' help, yes?

*BLOG POSTS: Got a blog? deviantArt account? Anything bloggish and might attract geeks? Make a post about the move, with an active link to here. Have your friends post about it too.
</li box></ul box>

Anything else? --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 18:08, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

:It might be amusing if we start our 'sell' with an amusing question or comment like "Transformers is '''''Serious Business'''''" or "Trukk or Munkey? These answers and less on http://www.tfwiki.net, the Transformers Wiki." Of course on that last one, there's a danger of you Americans taking that literally and thinking this place has very little answers. :D --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 18:51, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

::Doesn't quite work after Multimoog restored much of the "funny" Exodus articles.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 19:19, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
:::I've announced the move on four major TF-related message boards I post at (TFW2005, the Allspark, TF Archive and Don Murphy's). With the exception of the DM board thread, all those threads have garnered a considerable amount of pageviews and replies, the latter of which mere overwhelmingly supportive of the move. I've already seen people on TFW2005 specifically link to articles on the new Wiki.
:::[http://www.tfarchive.com/community/showpost.php?p=626539&postcount=138 Oh, and this.]--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 19:39, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
::::Yeah, every TFArchive link to the old wiki being bot-replaced is going to help a good deal. Nice thing, that.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 20:11, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

:I'm new here, but I stuck the slogan "By the fans, for the fun" in [http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-movie-discussion/189553-mystery-possibly-solved-corvette-tf2-4.html#post2367934 my signature] on the one board where I'm a member and it seemed relevant. Feel free to use it if you like it. [[User:Blitzflipper|Blitzflipper]] 19:47, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
::I gotta say... I really like that little slogan. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:54, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
:::I would even support that slogan going on the mainpage in the big banner of leaders.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 20:14, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

::::I like it too, but I say we reserve it for advertising. The Main Page is loaded down with enough text as it is. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 00:14, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

:I made a post about it on my DA journal already (one step ahead of ya! ;) ), and I just left a note on the TV Tropes wiki that we've moved. (I didn't want to just go around changing willy-nilly, since I didn't really know what their wiki polices are regards that stuff.)

:I would have made a post on Seibertron about it already, if they hadn't been down for the past few days :P , and I'm not sure what the policy would be on the IDW boards. I could make a post in Chit-Chat, perhaps... --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 20:37, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

::::::::::I've been using the phrase Trukk AND Munky on the boards to advertise the site, honestly. I figure it make ssense for the fan friendly board to be a little bit self referential.[[Special:Contributions/198.146.55.127|198.146.55.127]] 04:08, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

:I have TFwiki.net somewhere in all my sigs on forums (but unfortanutly its not a link) + im paying a friend £1 per month too advertise this site, i hope you guys are grateful, i only have about £12!

:All of the TF art pieces in [http://spektakle.com my portfolio] have descriptions with links that now point to articles here. Maybe not the most aggressive bit of advertising, but it's one more thing to help push Google in this direction. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 18:25, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

::Also, I've been running Google searches for "Transformers Wiki" and seeing where TT1 pops up that we could be too. For instance, I noticed its page [http://www.wikiindex.org/Transformers_Wiki here] and decided to make [http://www.wikiindex.org/TFwiki.net one for us too.] If anyone thinks they can do a better writeup, please have ats! I tried to strike the right balance between conveying our trademark smartassery and describing what's actually here. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 22:33, 21 September 2008 (EDT)
:::Reads well enough to me. I've done my own (passive-)aggressive link-modifying on at least a voice actor page or two. So far, it seems to have avoided reversion.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 23:02, 21 September 2008 (EDT)
:::I cant find us on google searches for any thing transformers! Hopefully though when people go on teletraan-1 and see how horrible the layout is and then come here (by the link at the top of the pages) and see how butiful the layout is they will stay with us and tell there friends[[Special:Contributions/81.108.233.59|81.108.233.59]] 12:29, 24 September 2008 (EDT)

[http://somethingpositive.net/ I took out an ad on Something*Positive.net]. It'll only be up for about 2/3rds of the day, since it's eeeexpeeeeensive, but we should get a huge flow of traffic today. (Whee!) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:06, 24 September 2008 (EDT)

:Woof. Out-bid, and the highest bidder now has their bid at at least $150/day. So, uh, we'll show back up once that dude runs out of cash. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 17:55, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
::Maybe we should look at a square ad in some other awesome webcomics. What's Wonderella commanding on Saturdays? --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 18:06, 24 September 2008 (EDT)

:::Wonderella seems to have four Button ads, not a square ad. Its current bid asking price is $1.10 per tiny strip. They're not terribly high-trafficked -- in fact, PW cites their stats at a little below ours. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:05, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
::::It's up again, but here's the URL to the ad graphic, if anyone wants to see it later: [[http://www.projectwonderful.com/img/uploads/pics/924-1222278049.jpg|[2]]] --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:43, 24 September 2008 (EDT)

SoulGeek has hella ad budget. They buy ads on a lot of sites I browse.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 19:14, 24 September 2008 (EDT)

I now have links to tfwiki in my sigs and im currently engaged with a, well, lets call it a "debate" with some one else so im making quite a few posts[[Special:Contributions/81.108.233.59|81.108.233.59]] 11:08, 25 September 2008 (EDT)

Anyone thought of writing something up about the TF Wiki moving in reponse to Wikia's meddling and getting it noticed at someplace like Digg or other Net News sites? Wiki editors unhappy with intrusive ads and wonky code seems like the sort of thing they'd eat up, plus it'd help call attention to the cause of other Wikia sites still stuck dealing with the mess. (I'd suggest Slashdot, but that would kill the server and probably attract a bunch of trolls, for starters...) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:37, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

Just wanted to mention that Google is starting to recognize us. When this section was started, we were effectively impossible to find if you Googled "Transformers wiki". But now we're fifth on the list (after two TT1 pages and two Wikipedia pages, in that order). It's impossible to say how much of that has had to do with our own conscious prosthelytizing, but hey, it sure can't be hurting. Now, that having been said, if you Google just a TF name (like "Starscream"), we're still nonexistent, and TT1 remains as prominent as Wikipedia. But it's good to know we're making progress, slowly but surely. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 05:09, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

:Our page for [[Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen]] is only 8 positions behind the wikia version too, though both are pretty far down the results. Neither wiki shows up for "Transformers movie" and we're pretty far back for "Transformers sequel". Those are likely to be the popular searches in the near future... --[[User:Abates|abates]] 06:44, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

::Of course, we're not a news site and won't have any information about the sequel til after it's released, which renders my comment rather moot. :) --[[User:Abates|abates]] 06:48, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
:::You bring up a good point, though, which is that we're in a TF-content lull right now. We won't really know how well we're doing in the broader Internet community until the cartoon returns and the movie sequel is released. Then we'll see, between TT1 and us, who can snag more new users and Google-relevance. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 07:18, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
::::I'm wondering if there'll be a blossoming of movie info on TT1 simply because we're not there to restrain rumors any more. Even if it happens, I'm not sure how big an impact it'll have.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 10:59, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

We are doing nicely, a search for transformers wiki brings us at 5th and a search for tfwiki puts us second! We are almost there, just a little more and we may overtake wikia![[Special:Contributions/81.108.233.59|81.108.233.59]] 12:54, 2 November 2008 (EST)

:One advantage Wikia has (or had, until TX55 was made the admin there) was that they were essentially unmoderated, and random people could report all sorts of stuff like unofficial news and set photos. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:19, 2 November 2008 (EST)

== Defenestrated ==
[[Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:Defenestration]] needs cleared. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 03:05, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

== Maintenance script boo-boo ==
I feel that it should be pointed out that the maintenance script uploaded lots of old versions of files from Wikia and gave them numbered names based on the date they were uploaded. [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&offset=20080915084320&target=Maintenance+script] Essentially, we have a lot of useless images languishing in the memory. Dunno if you guys want to do something about it or not. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 20:17, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

== Having trouble making your account? ==
This is so people who are having trouble making there account because the answer can be hard to find. Recreate your old account! Yes, thats the answer! If your old account is called prismatix and your password is rainbow then on this wiki you have to create your account with the username as prismatix and the password rainbow! This is because if the username you use exists on the old wiki then it will try to log into the account on the old wiki using the password you have suplied so no one can steal your account.[[Special:Contributions/81.153.53.63|81.153.53.63]] 07:22, 21 September 2008 (EDT)

==Anybody checking the old site?==
I removed it from my bookmarks after the move, and honestly haven't been back. But there still exists the possibility of plagiarism (too strong a word?) for the lazy among us.--[[User:Drmick|Drmick]] 15:17, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

:I occasionally check it, but nothing so sinister seems to be going on. The only mirrored edits seem to be from folks that are both places.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 15:34, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

Plus, I assume that it is an aggrieved ex-user who is vandalising the place with Detour abuse?--[[User:Drmick|Drmick]] 15:17, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

:One of our frequent trolls that Wikia had pretty much global-banned from every IP he had access to followed us here because the bans didn't carry over. We'll deal with him.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 15:34, 22 September 2008 (EDT)

The sitenotice has been changed, nothgng points to this wiki now in an obvious place. They've banned 20 users after Suki Brits unbanned over a hundred of the old enemies (that was epic!), but none of the new bannees had a prior history, so that action had no other result than to "clean the slate", it seems. (They've not gone and removed the even older blocks yet.)

Judging by [[http://mainpagetest.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page]] , they mean to brand themselves as "The Transformers Wiki" now. --mendel [[Special:Contributions/84.128.192.191|84.128.192.191]] 18:24, 25 September 2008 (EDT)

They,ve removed all reference to us, i don't believe it![[Special:Contributions/81.108.233.59|81.108.233.59]] 05:01, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

Of course hey have. Because we're a ''threat''. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 12:18, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

I doubt anybody will manage to read this point, but the whole Detour abuse thing is continuing pretty strong. At the risk of incurring somebody's wrath, but I have found Detour's choice of language just ever slow slightly antagonistic on this wiki, so I can only imagine the language used on message boards. I would advise people who are regular posters on forums under the same username as here to be on their best behaviour at those sites. Be nice people! The last thing we need is somebody with a grudge going apeshit all over the wiki, which may only be an innocent victim in some twisted fanboy "blood"-feud. [[User:Drmick|Drmick]] 14:49, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

:It looks like TFwiki isn't the only to be having problems with Wikia leaving an old site up in direct competition; Illogicopedia (now en.illogicopedia.org) is having similar problems with a Wikia staffer (KyleH) removing information on the site move from their old site (illogicopedia.wikia.com). There have been enough Wikia-related problems across enough different wiki communities that an entire wiki (complaintswiki.org) was created just to archive them all in one place. In some cases, anons are using the old wikis to post personal attack articles about non-notables (my siblings are stooopid, my teacher is ghey...) which would've been deleted on sight back when those wikis had active users and admins watching for this stuff - now heaven forbid that any of it be removed, lest Wikia advertisers otherwise might want to put their ad on the latest anon-IP creation "My teacher sukks dead hamsters" *sigh*--[[User:Carlb|Carlb]] 14:17, 2 December 2008 (EST)
::The unfortunate thing is that the Wikia site still being up ''is'' hurting us despite the good Google ranking... I remember a while back seeing some of my TF fan friends busy linking to amusing Wiki articles and noticing they were using the old Wikia site... so I started explaining it had moved to this URL, and it took forever to get across the fact that this '''was''' the exact same "funny" wiki they were fond of, exact same community, and that it was the Wikia site that was abandoned and not edited by the same people who had made the wiki so awesome.
::And considering I saw one of them linking Wikia-based TF pics the other day, I still don't think it's sunk in. *sigh*--[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:51, 2 December 2008 (EST)

:::If anything, you'd think the fact that we have an interface that doesn't look like it came out of a cat's ass would make us more obviously the "real" wiki.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 15:45, 2 December 2008 (EST)
::::The way I figure it, 99% of casual web-surfers will end up on Wikipedia and never even know about either Wikia's site or us. We're only relevant to the fan community, and while we've got the hardcore base on our side, the not-so-hardcore-but-still-fanboy crowd will go wherever Google takes them, and that's the Wikia site. Hopefully someday that'll change, but in the meantime we have to live with it. That having been said, I LOVE the Go-box sigs I see on message boards. I think that's the most virally effective way we can drive traffic here and cultivate awareness in the community at large. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 15:55, 2 December 2008 (EST)

::I think [http://complaintwiki.org/ complaintwiki.org] is the site you mean. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 15:08, 2 December 2008 (EST)

:::Yeah, I think it is too. And it does feature a [http://complaintwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page#Transformers summary of our situation.] - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 15:46, 2 December 2008 (EST)

==INSANE IDEA==
Here's a crazy idea. Would it be possible to make a version of the GO! box that any ol' website could paste in their code? I was thinking of asking Suki Brit if it would be possible to whip it up for, say, Shortpacked!'s frontpage, but then I realized I was thinking too small... --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:00, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

:Yes. It'd need a header graphic to explain what it was though, which would probably include a link 'get this for your site yo!' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:46, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
:[http://kerovia.net/tfwiki/ Something like this?] - [[User:Jarod|Jarod]] 15:37, 27 September (-06:00 GMT)
::Suki Brits also finished putting one together.
::<code>http://tfwiki.net/generate_html.php</code> '''<-PHP'''
::<code><script type="text/javascript" src="http://tfwiki.net/generate_js.php"></script></code> '''<-javascript'''

::<div style="float: right;"><iframe src="http://tfwiki.net/generate_html.php" width="228" height="135" scrolling="no" frameborder="0"></iframe></div><div style="clear: both;"></div> '''<-for .sigs'''
::Now we just need to put together [[Transformers Wiki:A GoBox of your own!|a page which we can link to]] which tells you how to implement these. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 20:03, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
:::Should we put a little text on the sidebar promoting the idea of getting a GoBox for your own site? --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:24, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

::::I think so, yeah. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:28, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

== A spirit of healthy competition ==
{|class="wikitable"
|-
!Date!!Wikia!!TFWiki
|-
!September 15
|~6,750||~6750
|-
!September 27
|6,890||7,011
|-
!November 15
|6,950||7,594
|-
!January 23
|6,998||7,944
|}
:And while most of what we've added is... actual ''content'', the vast majority of what they've added is a bunch of redirects. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 06:32, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

::I didn't think those numbers included redirects. (Mind, my 6700 number is a guess- the last time I checked the total was a few weeks before we left.)
::Last time I checked Wikia I just remember thinking- "Wow, the admins just reverted a change and demanded citations because none of the sysops know enough about Transformers to determine whether information is valid on their own."
::(The sadness of this overcame my own desire to exploit it for mischief.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:53, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
:::I believe it does. It's an article, after all, even if it's one that just redirects to another, but maybe I'm wrong. Aside from those, I think the largest number of new things are freshly-created talk pages for IP addresses with a "Welcome" message. But... maybe ''those'' aren't counted either. I don't know. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 08:43, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
::::I don't think it does. I nuked a bunch of unused redirects this week, and... no change in our page count, far as I can tell. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 10:33, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

:::::...On second thought, there's no way they've added 140 original articles in that time. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 10:47, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
::::::Nor have we, despite our inherent awesomeness, created over 250. Do ''pictures'' count? - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 10:49, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::::I think the Before numbers are just low. I was watching the numbers for a few days after the move, and IIRC it was something like 6,980 for the old site. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 12:26, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
::::::::I agree with Rob. I thought the numbers were ~6880 before the move. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:29, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

== External link-whoring ==
We can help ourselves by linking to external sites. While we already do this, we should, at every available opportunity, link to Hasbro's site for X Transformers toyline/cartoon/franchise on each page. For example, I've linked Hasbro's animated home page and the Cartoon Network's page on several of the Animated franchise pages. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 10:25, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

:Doesn't Takara's TF site keep a lot of the old stuff around? I mean, I think they still ahve the BW TeleMocha and Robot Masters sites going... --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 11:01, 4 October 2008 (EDT)
::Yeah, I think they do (at the very least) keep pages for their older, out of production toylines around for reference. Hopefully linking to external pages that are relevant to our articles will help with our listing on google. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 11:10, 4 October 2008 (EDT)

== Another stupid idea ==
There's been a lot of effort put into advertising and pumping the new wiki, but it's still a place you come to see individual facts and cool stuff. This is all well and good but getting in regular people daily is one of the quickest ways to improve things. And i've already suggested this in chan and had Siph call me a idiot but here we go.
Start a news page or blog. I don't know if you would have it IN the wiki or alongside, but the idea is a page that has the cool stuff everyone keeps on finding with links back into the wiki. Is there a new sideswipe figure? Have a news post with linking into the history of the character on the wiki. Found some awesome old box prototypes? Link em and tie it into the wiki. Got a interview? Post it referencing the info from particular episodes. This community has fantastic resources and dedication, while the majority is being ploughed back into the wiki (as it should) by having a page that has the info over time it will encourage more average readers to link up through various means that the wiki cannot support.
Sure we already have the featured article, but start to think of things from a user / customer perspective. I believe this would add to the wiki.[[User:Sonictail|Sonictail]] 23:30, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

:The thing is, it sounds like you're essentially advocating we start up a page with approach and content akin to a newsgroup or message board, and that's contrary to our overall approach to TF info for the wiki. We like casual, message board-style chat about neat stuff we've found, but with minimal exception (usually brief discussion on relevant Talk pages), it doesn't go here. We also eschew going for immediate/late-breaking news, because that way lies unconfirmed rumor, changeable info and the potential for outright falsehood (even if unintentional). We try to keep the wiki solidly grounded on fact, and that would be like building on quicksand.
:Having said all that, we'd LOVE it if any editors with the time to set up their own news pages/blogs would link to the wiki on a regular basis. Walky already does so with every update of his Shortpacked! web site blog. Such sites could still have everything you mention; they just wouldn't be a part of the wiki per se.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 00:39, 9 October 2008 (EDT)
:Why does news have to be right up to the point? (yeah, I know it wouldn't be "news" but stick with me here). Aim at the casual fan that doesn't want the drooling fan laden approach that other sites take. Collate on weekend a set of ten posts with the friendly style and stick it out two a day, tending towards news that a) is confirmed and genuine and b) has a direct link into material on the wiki. Content is king and the main problem with a wiki is that while there is always new content, there's a massive breadth more to be found.. eh there's a whole pile of reasons. But I do understand your position on the subject and you are correct, it does divert away from what is important. Anyways, I may revisit this idea after jan, and maybe even see about writing a universal greenlink protocol.[[User:Sonictail|Sonictail]] 00:49, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

:It's not hard to set up a free blog somewhere. It's not hard to make a Wiki page that lists and links blogs that are exclusively about transformers or that have transformers tagged articles from time to time. It is possible to install a [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RSS MediaWiki extension] that allows putting a blog's RSS feed on a wiki page (but don't expect your watchlist to notice when it updates). So it is possible to bring blogs and the wiki closer together without putting the blog into the wiki itself - maybe that works for you? --[[User:M.mendel|◄mendel►]] 08:30, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

::Sonictail, we take a hardline stance on news and rumours, in that we go out of our way to avoid reporting unfounded rumours and news leaked from unofficial sources. What does it say about us if we have such a policy in place and then we also have a "Just Like Any Other TF Website, or Wikipedia or the Wikia TF Wiki" style blog/board that reports all of this unofficial stuff as well? As for news being confirmed and genuine, I'm pretty sure that things like a leaked test shot of a toy from China confirms that that it is a genuine toy that exists in some form, but it still isn't official news. As for official news from Hasbro/Tomy/Dreamworks and their affiliates, we already update the relevant articles with such news anyway.
::Besides, creating such a blog would be just more work, and we have too much stuff to do on the wiki right now... like re-writing the Beast Wars/Beast Machines, Armada, Energon and Cybertron character articles. They're a mess. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 08:44, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

== Teletraan I articles ==
Just mentioning this as an issue here so it doesn't get missed: all articles which mention Teletraan I in the name ([[Teletraan I]], [[Secret Files of Teletraan II]], etc) have "Teletraan I" in their title tags replaced with "TFwiki.net". --[[User:Abates|abates]] 17:08, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

:Seems likely that we did a CSS kludge to remove old references rather than doing it the right way.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:12, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
::Oops. This was meant to deal with the main page only-- let me clean that up a bit so it handles that right. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 18:05, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

== Not exactly related, but... ==
[http://lostpedia.wikia.com/ Guess who just joined Wikia]... Which means I'm gonna have to cease working there immediately. Sigh.

Also, what's the point when they already have [http://lost.wikia.com/ this]?--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 19:42, 19 December 2008 (EST)

:I find your solidarity (anti-darity?) with our departure from Wikia vaguely touching, but also a bit puzzling.
:We, as a community, thought it was the best thing for our readers to leave. Doesn't mean you can't still contribute to other wikis on Wikia.
:(Well, I suppose if you strongly feel they're in the wrong and don't want to support anything that subjects LOST fans to their interface...) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:35, 19 December 2008 (EST)
::That last bit. That, that, that. Arguably, even just going from maintaining your own user database to using Wikia's global one is a fairly significant disruption. Doing the reverse was smooth for us, because we managed to jigger it so that those that wanted to could reclaim their Wikia logins without fear of sniping, and all the histories matched up nice-like. Going in the direction they are? I don't envy them.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 23:15, 19 December 2008 (EST)

:And the "this message from Admin" link at the top is totally unclickable for me in Firefox. Looking at the message in IE, ironically it seems that "less adverts" was one of the reasons they changed. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:45, 19 December 2008 (EST)
::Works fine for me in Firefox 3, but the bottom portion of the admin message is...er... obscured by ads.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 21:51, 19 December 2008 (EST)
:::...ads which, due to being internal "Wikia Spotlight" boxes, do not go away once I log in. I swear, the Wikia interface has actually gotten ''more'' retarded in the last few months.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 21:53, 19 December 2008 (EST)

== Mass-Exporting pages ==
One of the things we promised ourselves when we moved was that we'd set up a system where our content was reasonably-easily portable for other systems-- so that others could spin their own wikis out of here if they wanted just like we did out of TT1.

I don't think anyone particularly ''wants'' to do so... but right now the ''only master copy'' of our data resides on a server sitting in a Hurricane zone. I'd ''really'' like the option of being able to download a complete backup of all pages (even just their current states if not the full history,) once every 2 weeks in case of disaster.

I thought I was going to be setting up the plugins to do this myself- but then I ''also'' thought I was going to have FTP access, that hasn't happened so neither has the export functionality. Anyone got any input? Know a good mass-export script? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:52, 19 December 2008 (EST)

:I don't have anything to add since I'm not well versed enough in this area (Yay for being a certified engineer in computer systems technology or whatever!), but I totally share your concerns. We should back up every once in a while. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:06, 20 December 2008 (EST)
::*sigh*
::Can anyone name me a Transformer likely to compulsively backup his work? It helps to anthromorphize issues. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:14, 20 December 2008 (EST)

:::[[Rewind]]? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:34, 20 December 2008 (EST)
::::[[Motormouth]]! Function:Backup Support -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:37, 20 December 2008 (EST)
:::::[[Mainframe (G1)|Mainframe]]? --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 20:14, 20 December 2008 (EST)

: Compile a list of articles using [[Special:AllPages]], then plug them into [[Special:Export]], preferably during the off-hours (possibly exporting each namespace separately). Parse the Image: namespace and download the images, using a throttled bot over a period of several days, and after that, do only incremental backups of the images. Everybody can do it this way, it just loads the server more than running a script to compile the .xml of the current pages once a week and offering that for download... and MediaWiki does come with a script for that, I believe. --[[User:M.mendel|◄mendel►]] 21:03, 20 December 2008 (EST)
::So basically... "Do exactly the most obvious thing, brute force."
::Well, we already have a throttled 'bot. Ours is ''offsite'' which is a bit of a pain... but also probably better from a, y'know... "backing up" standpoint...
::'''Is''' there a standard, um... "bot" used for this, or do they tend to be coded one-off? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:23, 20 December 2008 (EST)

==Why don't I have a user page?==

I have already verified my email address and account, but I don't have a user page. Can anyone please help me?[[User:Puppetroblox|Puppetroblox]] ([[User talk:Puppetroblox|talk]])

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving

2018-06-09T23:48:55Z

Puppetroblox: /* Missing Images */

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2018-06-09T23:42:10Z

Puppetroblox: /* Quidd */

__NEWSECTIONLINK__

This is the place for discussion of topics that affect the entire wiki. Some topics that would ordinarily be here have merited their own pages:

{{chapters|title=Specific Discussion Subjects|align=left|content=
<div class="list-header">'''Moving From Wikia:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving|Arriving]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving|Leaving]]
* [[Transformers Wiki:Community Portal/Complaints|Complaints]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''New Ad Policy:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki:Ads|Ads]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Bookworm Database-Crash:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central|Damage Control Central]]
* [[Project:Bookworm Crash]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving2|Leaving Take 2]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Server Move:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving2|Arriving Take 2]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Relicensing:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Relicensing|Relicensing]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Dealing With Vandalism:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Vandalism|Vandalism]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''GoBots Sister Wiki:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/GoBots|Discussion on the place of GoBots in this wiki]]
<br/> <div class="list-header">'''Wiki Technical Information:'''</div>
* [[Transformers_Wiki:Tech|A Not So Brief Summary of the Horrible Things That McFly and Co. Have Done To Keep This Wiki From Melting Down]]
}}<br/>

{{:{{FULLPAGENAMEE}}/Archive}}


== Voice Actors listed on separate episodes ==

Why don't we have voice actors listed on separate episodes? Also does anyone know if Transformers: Portal came out yet? [[User:West james|west james/notirishman]] ([[User talk:West james|talk]]) 13:59, 7 November 2017 (EST)
:I don't think there's been a specific discussion, but since it's rare for characters to have different voice actors in different episodes, it would cause a lot of clutter for not a lot of gain. If someone wants to see who voiced a particular character, they can generally just go to the character's page. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 15:57, 7 November 2017 (EST)
:[[Transformers: Portal|http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Transformers:_Portal]] Rudimentary since there is next to no coverage in English. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 17:55, 7 November 2017 (EST)
::Yeah, that's true. And regarding Transformers: Portal, they ''did'' actually start making episodes. [[User:West james|west james/notirishman]] ([[User talk:West james|talk]]) 19:06, 7 November 2017 (EST)

== Vote on "other versions of character" sections ==

So the "example versions" of these sections has been up for a while now with nothing being done about them, so we should probably decide one way or the other whether we're using them. I definitely feel very strongly that these sections at the bottoms of articles would be very positive for accessibility and people being able to quickly find other versions of the character that they've been reading about — after all, there's no real difference between [[Demolishor (Armada)|Demolishor]], [[Demolishor (WFC)|Demolishor]], and [[Demolisher]], and they are ''inarguably'' the same "character" in a way that [[Demolishor (ROTF)]] isn't. There's three options for what we can do:
* [[Slug (AOE)#Other continuities|Jalaguy's galleries]]
* [[Wreck-Gar (Animated)#See also|My "see also" bullet-lists]]
* Keep things as they are and just have users rely on the disambiguation pages
I vote for the bullet lists, since they're unobtrusive and can still be used when a character has no images available. [https://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/101932-tfwikinet-thread-30/page-442#entry3619900 This Allspark post] by M Sipher sums up my feelings pretty well. Anyone else? --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:39, 8 November 2017 (EST)
:I vote keep things as is. While the current system isn't perfect, I think this sort of disambiguation is best left to the...disambiguation pages. It is why they exist. Having a separate section for a DIFFERENT form of disambiguation at the bottom of the article opposing the regular disambiguation links at the top makes no sense to me. I think a better option would be to improve the "new user utility" of the existing disambig pages. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 15:38, 8 November 2017 (EST)
::I say keep things the way it is. For the same reason Xaaron stated above. I think those "Other versions" sections should only be for characters with different spellings. [[User:West james|west james/notirishman]] ([[User talk:West james|talk]]) 15:49, 8 November 2017 (EST)
:I'd prefer to keep things as they are. If we have to go with one of those two though I prefer the bullet-lists for being less obtrusive. [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 15:53, 8 November 2017 (EST)

:I think I would like the bullet list version if it was slightly more eyecatching, like in a template box of some sort:
{{Messagebox|
|message_text=Other versions of Wreck-Gar have appeared in other continuity families, including:
*[[Wreck-Gar (G1)|Wreck-Gar]], the [[Junkion (species)|Junkion]] Autobot from the [[Generation 1 continuity family|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].
*[[Wreck-Gar (Prime)|Wreck-Gar]], the Junkion from the [[Aligned continuity family|Aligned]] continuity family.
|header=See Also
|image_name=Quint_head.gif
|talkpage=
|categories=
|mouseover=
|image_width=
|justification=left
|border=000000
|bgcolor=f9CCCC
|width=90%
|bottomtext=
}}
:as a rough example. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 15:59, 8 November 2017 (EST)
::Ooh, ooh, yes, I like this. It fixes the one reservation I had with the bullet list, which was eye-catching-ness.
::And I maintain that disambiguation pages really don't severe the purpose that this proposal was originally intended for - helping the uninformed user find about other-continuity versions of the character they've just read about. The link to a disambiguation is very easily glossed over (who can honestly say that they read through every header note and template before beginning the intro paragraph?), and they're set up entirely for their primary purpose, which is getting you from the search box to the right article. If you want to find alt-universe versions of a character, you'd have to manually dig through the list to see which are actually the same guy and which are different guys with the same name. You could rework disambig pages, but that'd make them worse at their primary job. An end-of-article list of alt versions of the specific character hurts nobody and helps the uniformed reader sort through the morass to other content they'll be interested in. The way I see it, there's no downside. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 16:37, 8 November 2017 (EST)
::I'd also like to quickly add that I solicited feedback on the proposal from TFWiki Tumblr followers a while back (on the basis that they're reasonably likely to be in the "got-into-TFs-relatively-recently" demographic that this is intended to help), and got plenty of "yeah, this would be helpful for me" feedback. The proposal ''will'' help people, and I don't see what ''harm'' it could possibly do, so...? [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 16:55, 8 November 2017 (EST)
::Ooh. Yesyesyes to this. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 19:39, 8 November 2017 (EST)

:I like the idea of a shortcut it will save a little time. But it also may reduce traffic, because people won't look at other interesting pages in the disambiguation. The gallery is a little cluttered. In any case, I also made made my own version:

{{Messagebox|
|message_text=Other versions of Wreck-Gar have appeared in other continuity families, including:
*[[Wreck-Gar (G1)|Wreck-Gar]], the [[Junkion (species)|Junkion]] Autobot from the [[Generation 1 continuity family|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].
*[[Wreck-Gar (Prime)|Wreck-Gar]], the Junkion from the [[Aligned continuity family|Aligned]] continuity family.
|header=You look familiar...
|image_name=Dinobot_mirror.jpg
|talkpage=
|categories=
|mouseover=
|image_width=120px
|justification=left
|border=000000
|bgcolor=EFE
|width=90%
|bottomtext=
}}
:—[[User:TheLiegeDecado|<span style="font-family:georgia;color:#CC00EE;">The </span><span style="font-family:georgia;color:#0E0;">Liege </span><span style="font-family:georgia;color:#CC00EE;">Decado</span>]] ([[User talk:TheLiegeDecado|talk]]) 16:26, 8 November 2017 (EST)
::I dig this one with the double Dinobots; we only need one, and the image is very immediately clear at that small size (well we could probably crop it tighter and brighten it a bit but still). I ABSOLUTELY think we should have this given the name-reassigning/changing that this franchise is nostrils-deep in that makes Disambig pages not terribly ideal for finding these kind of doppelgangers. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 20:00, 8 November 2017 (EST)

I like this idea of using a template. I've made my own that could be used for bigger charcters, while LiegeDecado's can be used for smaller characters. Just an idea though.
{{Messagebox|
|message_text=Other versions of Bumblebee have appeared in other continuity families, including:
*[[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]], the yellow [[kid-appeal character]] from [[The Transformers (franchise)|Generation 1]].
*[[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]], the voiceless yellow one-man franchise from the [[live-action film series]].
*[[Bumblebee (Animated)|Bumblebee]], the yellow kid-appeal character from ''[[Transformers Animated (franchise)|Transformers Animated]]''.
|header=All too similar...
|image_name=Convoy-final1024.jpg
|talkpage=
|categories=
|mouseover=
|image_width=120px
|justification=left
|border=000000
|bgcolor=EFE
|width=90%
|bottomtext=
}}
[[User:West james|west james/notirishman]] ([[User talk:West james|talk]]) 17:22, 8 November 2017 (EST)

Personally, I think that if we do this bullet point image, we should use the Crisis on Infinite Hot Rods image from RG1, as it probably best illustrates the concept we're dealing with here (maybe crop it a little bigger or something). It probably wouldn't ''hurt'' to link to the disambiguation at the bottom, either, something like this....

{{Messagebox|
|message_text=Other versions of Bumblebee have appeared in other continuity families, including:
*[[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]], the yellow [[kid-appeal character]] from [[The Transformers (franchise)|Generation 1]].
*[[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]], the voiceless yellow one-man franchise from the [[live-action film series]].
*[[Bumblebee (Animated)|Bumblebee]], the yellow kid-appeal character from ''[[Transformers Animated (franchise)|Transformers Animated]]''.
''For more information, see [[Bumblebee (disambiguation)]]''
|header=You look familiar...
|image_name=RG1 93 rodimii.jpg
|talkpage=
|categories=
|mouseover=
|image_width=150px
|justification=left
|border=000000
|bgcolor=EFE
|width=90%
|bottomtext=
}}

I strongly prefer the look of the gallery version. It's a perfect visual cap-off at the bottom of the page, it's attention-getting in a way that neither looks like clutter nor will be overwhelmed by large Notes sections, and it gives you a visual to compare all these different versions, which is information in itself.
The bullet template strikes me as very strange, showing unrelated character X alongside a list of versions of character Y. The images convey the information much more strikingly. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] ([[User talk:Repowers|talk]]) 01:45, 9 November 2017 (EST)

:Maybe we can do both?
{{Messagebox|
|message_text=Alternate versions of Slug have appeared in other [[continuity family|continuity families]], including:
<gallery widths="100px" heights="150px">
File:Dinobot Hunt Slag.jpg|[[Slag (G1)|"Generation 1" Slag]]
File:TFAnimated Snarl.jpg|[[Snarl (Animated)|''Animated'' Snarl]]
File:FOC-Slugart.jpg|[[Slug (FOC)|''Fall of Cybertron'' Slug]]
File:Adventureart-Slug.jpg|[[Slug (Adventure)|''Adventure'' Slug]]
</gallery>
|header=You look familiar...
|image_name=RG1 93 rodimii.jpg
|talkpage=
|categories=
|mouseover=
|image_width=150px
|justification=left
|border=000000
|bgcolor=EFE
|width=90%
|bottomtext=
}}
:—[[User:TheLiegeDecado|<span style="font-family:georgia;color:#CC00EE;">The </span><span style="font-family:georgia;color:#0E0;">Liege </span><span style="font-family:georgia;color:#CC00EE;">Decado</span>]] ([[User talk:TheLiegeDecado|talk]]) 10:29, 9 November 2017 (EST)
::If we did it as a gallery in a template like this, the picture of the Rodimuses is unnecessary and it'd look much better without it. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 14:47, 9 November 2017 (EST)
I still don't see the value doing these things in addition to the disambig pages, instead of improving the disambig pages to better convey the same information. Having both doesn't feel "new reader friendly". Having two different types of disambig for a character, in two different locations, makes it MORE likely a new reader will spot one and not the other, or not understand the difference between the two disambigs without greater study...which just isn't a good set-up to help them find info quickly and easily.
Why can't the disambig page just be renovated to list:
:--> Here's Slag (G1)
:-- --> Here's the characters based on Slag (regardless of name)
:--> Here's the other uses of Slag unrelated to Slag (G1)
And as a matter of aesthetics, I think using the same basic template for this that we use for when people screw up or something is missing is a bad idea too. When I see boxes like that on a page, I automatically think "stub" article, and my instinct is to do something to remove them. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 10:55, 9 November 2017 (EST)
::The problem with that approach is that it risks making the disambigs ''worse'' at their main job. If you ''are'' looking for Slag the rando nameslap guy, that's just made it a whole lot harder on the person. And since disambigs are geared around names, not characters, you'd end up with weird situations - under your approach, [[Hot Rod (disambiguation)]] and [[Rodimus (disambiguation)]] would basically end up being the same page twice. Disambigs are primarily a functional tool, they exist to act as a signpost to get people from point A to B. I would wager that almost nobody is clicking through to disambig pages from character pages, because that's not really what they're for, and they call no attention to themselves, an easily glossed-over link at the very top of the article. The point of this proposal is to facilitate wiki-walking and exploration, to be a "you might also be interested in" section. We ''could'' change disambigs to lean more in that direction, but that's gonna make disambigs poorer signposts. I just don't see what there is to lose here. Disambigs will still exist as the same name directories they always have. The person who, for some reason, is searching for Classics Mini-Con Thunderwing will still get there. But the person who just read about G1 Thunderwing and wonders if they've been in other continuities doesn't have to manually click through a list every Thunderwing to find out which ones are nameslaps and which ones aren't.
::I do agree that the template approach could do with a newer design to differentiate it from needs work templates though, that's a really good point. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 12:16, 9 November 2017 (EST)

::I see disambiguations most often when I'm searching for a character, and I usually end up clicking on a lot of links. But that's on purpose, an helps me explore. These menus would be a nice shortcut—it's sort of like narrowing down the dismbiguation to a similar set of characters. the disambigs are great, the template would just be adding on. Also, it may look like less of an error box if it has a white background. —[[User:TheLiegeDecado|<span style="font-family:georgia;color:#CC00EE;">The </span><span style="font-family:georgia;color:#0E0;">Liege </span><span style="font-family:georgia;color:#CC00EE;">Decado</span>]] ([[User talk:TheLiegeDecado|talk]]) 13:49, 9 November 2017 (EST)
The more images added to this thing, the uglier and clunkier it looks. -[[User:LV|LV]] ([[User talk:LV|talk]]) 13:58, 9 November 2017 (EST)
:Agreed. I think we should use the Rodimus one Repowers created. You know, the one with just text. It would take up less space, be less intrusive but create a shortcut for users trying to look for another version. [[User:West james|west james/notirishman]] ([[User talk:West james|talk]]) 15:29, 9 November 2017 (EST)
::I like that version as well, though with some formatting to ensure that a longer list doesn't wrap around the image (since that looks really ugly). -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] ([[User talk:Dark T Zeratul|talk]]) 17:20, 9 November 2017 (EST)
:Also, not everyone who'd get one of these yet HAS an image, or one good enough to use. Aligned Wreck-Gar, for example. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 20:19, 10 November 2017 (EST)

[[User:TheLiegeDecado/Sandbox|I made a sandbox with a template, go ahead and edit it.]] —[[User:TheLiegeDecado|<span style="font-family:georgia;color:#CC00EE;">The </span><span style="font-family:georgia;color:#0E0;">Liege </span><span style="font-family:georgia;color:#CC00EE;">Decado</span>]] ([[User talk:TheLiegeDecado|talk]]) 17:27, 10 November 2017 (EST)

BUMP!
Anyone still interested in this? Someone removed the one from Slag (G1) along with some other edits. I have restored this gallery for now, but if we are going to do this we need to get it going. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 10:48, 16 May 2018 (EDT)

{{User:TheLiegeDecado/Sandbox
|charname=Wreck-Gar
|disambig=Wreck-Gar (disambiguation)
|body=
*[[Wreck-Gar (G1)|Wreck-Gar]], the [[Junkion (species)|Junkion]] [[Autobot]] from [[The Transformers (franchise)|Generation 1]].
*[[Wreck-Gar (Animated)|Wreck-Gar]], the worthless wreck/walking pile of garbage from ''[[Transformers Animated (franchise)|Animated]]''.
*[[Wreck-Gar (Prime)|Wreck-Gar]], the Junkion from the [[Aligned continuity family]].}}

:How do people feel about this take? --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:44, 16 May 2018 (EDT)
::Works for me, I suppose. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 16:28, 17 May 2018 (EDT)
Still opposed to the idea. Same reasons as last year. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 08:40, 17 May 2018 (EDT)

Thinking more on this, would it be better if it matched the other templates we have for navigating between similar articles?
{{chapters
|title=Versions of Wreck-Gar|style=1
|content=
*[[Wreck-Gar (G1)|Generation 1]]
*[[Wreck-Gar (Animated)|Animated]]
*[[Wreck-Gar (Prime)|Aligned]]
For more information, see [[Wreck-Gar (disambiguation)]].
}} --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 16:53, 17 May 2018 (EDT)
:So, since Riptide thought to tell the AllSpark she was going to implement her version today unless anyone stopped her, I feel the need to do more than just re-sign my previous objection.
:Using two different, somewhat-overlapping versions of a disambiguation list is not intuitive for new visitors. Having the disambig link at top and this box at the bottom scatters information that should be all together in one place. Further, the difference between "Characters named Slag" and "Characters derived from the traditional Slag character template" is a very nuanced distinction that visitors won't immediately understand. I can easily see people finding one of the two disambigs and not the other, then getting confused when they're sure some other form of Slag exists but they're not finding it in ''that'' disambig (of 2). I mean...disambigs are an index. You don't have multiple competing indexes for the same resource.
:If people do insist on implementing this, though, I strongly suggest using a different template format than the one we use for stubs, warnings, and broken content. That template format is a '''''bad''''' thing when you see it anywhere else on this wiki. An informative resource link like a disambig should look different. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 17:10, 17 May 2018 (EDT)

:I don't like that a lot - it's not very eyecatching or informative - but it's better than nothing. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 17:06, 17 May 2018 (EDT)
::This is... well, it's not exactly furniture-shuffling, but it is buying furniture that we don't need. It's a solution that's looking for a problem. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 17:26, 17 May 2018 (EDT)
:::Just to clarify my position: I don't really see the need for these. I only restored the one that was removed as this discussion had not reached a clear conclusion. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 08:38, 18 May 2018 (EDT)
::::I legit don't get the arguments against some implementation of this. It's an exploration-y "you might also be interested in" thing, not a technical index thing like disambiguation pages. I've had casual users saying "ooh, yes, that would be helpful" to me. Like I've said in the past, dismabigs are very bad at helping you find all the other continuities a character has appeared in, and making them better at that would make them worse at their main job of getting you to the right page after a search. I mean, geez, if suddenly a bunch of people turn up confused on talk pages we ''could'' undo it all again if we wanted. That being said, I do kinda agree with Xaaron's point about the template style. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 11:53, 18 May 2018 (EDT)
:::::Okay, look at it this way. If I am reading an article about character named "Skrankotron (Hoodaddy)" and I see a link to "Skrankotron (disambiguation)" I would find it most likely that anything on that page is another version of this character. If I am really into Skrankotron I would click on it and follow the links to my hearts content. Yeah, this franchise sometimes has "name-drop" characters who are nothing like the "archetype", but they are few and far between and getting less common. If there are characters that are blatantly derived from the same archetype (like the Slag, Slug, Slog examples) put a big honking note on there like "Characters basically identical to Skrankotron have sometimes been called Skrilloplex or Sharomus Magnus" with links to those pages. I don't see why you would need a secondary disambig on each character page when the disambiguation pages should be doing this already. I do see the point of putting a "for similar characters see "Skrankotron (disambiguation)" link on Skrilloplex and Sharomus Magnus, though. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:29, 18 May 2018 (EDT)
::::::[[Demolishor (disambiguation)|Demolishor]]. [[Scourge (disambiguation)|Scourge]]. [[Broadside (disambiguation)|Broadside]]. [[Knockout (disambiguation)|Knockout]]. There's plenty of characters whose names have been nameslapped multiple times, and it hurts nobody to add a little widget saying "hey, these are the name reuses (or differently-named characters) that ARE basically the same guy". I mean, Jalaguy literally ''asked'' the TFWiki Tumblr's followers - probably the best metric for polling casual viewers we've got - and got an overwhelmingly positive response. With that in mind, how can you say it wouldn't be useful for casual readers? --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:55, 18 May 2018 (EDT)
:::::::Yeah, chaotic disambigs like that are what inspired me back when I first brought up this proposal. Situations where there's a big list of name uses and the only way to work out which ones are versions of the character you're interested in is to manually click through to each article in turn. No harm in doing that legwork ahead of time for the curious user, surely? [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 15:09, 18 May 2018 (EDT)
::::::::My opinion, and what seems to be Khajidha's, isn't that we're against doing this ''at all''. It's about doing this separate from the existing disambig page, linked at opposite ends of an article. Isn't there a way to accommodate doing this form of disambig, but doing it ON the disambig page, like when we added the "Major Optimus Primes" image references? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 15:14, 18 May 2018 (EDT)
:::::::::See, I don't see the point of ''that''. Like, what would that involve? A note on the disambig page that "only X, X and X are versions of X character"? Why put it there instead of on the page for, say, Prime Knock Out, so that someone reading about that character can see "oh, I've finished reading the information on Knock Out, but I see that he also appeared in G1 and Animated". --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 15:20, 18 May 2018 (EDT)
::::::::::That's what the disambig pages already do, and specifically for Knock Out too. Are you concerned people won't find this information unless it's on the same page as the character's article? Because (correct me if I'm wrong), but it feels like we're arguing over the difference between "seeing it" and "clicking the disambig link and ''then'' seeing it". --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 15:42, 18 May 2018 (EDT)
:::::::::::Yep, Xaaron, we are in agreement on all of that.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 16:01, 18 May 2018 (EDT)
::::::::::::Listen, don't consider this a vote, but the disambiguation pages ''don't'' simply do that. They just contain a list of characters with the same name. Like I've got a video about Nemesis Prime dropping this weekend, right? So while doing my research I naturally checked the disambig page for him and his "evil twin" archetypes with different names. And on them, it says things like he "should not be confused with Scourge." Except - '''yes''', they absolutely '''should''' be confused with him, because they are the '''same thing''' that had it's name changed. All the disambigs do is disambiguate the ''name'' - they don't disambiguate the ''actual character''. "Sharpshot" ''should'' be confused with "Shrapnel." Hardshell ''should'' be confused with "Bombshell." Outback ''should'' be confused with "Fallback" because they're the ''same thing'', but instead they're thrown in at the end of the disambig page under "see also," set on the same level as "characters whose names sound a bit like this one" who they genuinely shouldn't be confused with. There is a distinction between "character" and "name" that the disambiguation pages are ''not'' making, and that's what this is intended to address. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 17:38, 18 May 2018 (EDT)
:::::::::::::I feel like updating the disambig pages would be a better solution than creating a second disambig template that goes at the end of the article where most people wouldn't see it. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] ([[User talk:Dark T Zeratul|talk]]) 17:56, 18 May 2018 (EDT)
::::::::::::::I completely agree with Chris. And I completely agree with Dark T. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 18:01, 18 May 2018 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::I didn't see this until now but I agree that revamping the disambiguation pages in these cases would be a better solution. [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 15:41, 28 May 2018 (EDT)

== Rename User ==

I was thinking about activating this extension since every so often it comes up that someone wants to change their username but can't. Does anyone have any objections? I'll ask in the thread on the AllSpark too, as soon as I can get the AllSpark to actually load (is it broken for anyone else?) --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 23:52, 2 December 2017 (EST)
:It’s been broken for me almost all day (Also, been wanting change my name for a while) [[User:Jcbynum1|Jcbynum1]] ([[User talk:Jcbynum1|talk]]) 00:20, 3 December 2017 (EST)
::I'd be all for it; been trying to consolidate my usernames across most fandom-based platforms for a while now. I can't see the harm, especially if it's admin-initiated. [[User:Magaroja|Doc Chloroplast]] ([[User talk:Magaroja|talk]]) 11:03, 5 December 2017 (EST)

Just to clarify in case there's any confusion: the RenameUser extension won't allow users to rename themselves directly - rather they'll need to ask an admin to rename them. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 22:23, 4 December 2017 (EST)

No reason not to allow this, is there? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 12:52, 7 December 2017 (EST)
:I say go for it. [[User:West james|-west james/notirishman]] ([[User talk:West james|talk]]) 17:22, 7 December 2017 (EST)
::I've just renamed Notirishman to test it and it looks like it worked perfectly, so thumbs up! --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 04:14, 8 December 2017 (EST)

== Allspark Forums down ==
PSA to all interested: Alas, the Allspark's server is currently down and our server company doesn't do standard maintenance on weekends. You can try [http://temp.allspark.com/index.php?showtopic=2455 this temporary site] in the interim and check back on Monday to see if the site is back up. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 00:35, 3 December 2017 (EST)

== Is this the holy grail for Famicom How to Manga: Transformers Mystery of Convoy? ==

I have found this on TF RAW page:

[http://tfraw.blogspot.mx/p/mystery-of-convoy.html Famicom How to Manga: Transformers Mystery of Convoy at TF RAW]

Is this one of the items in the holy grail section?

[[User:EDDIE-X|EDDIE-X]] ([[User talk:EDDIE-X|talk]]) 20:29, 28 December 2017 (EST)

== Samoa Joe ==

Hi! I'd like to start a page for Samoa Joe (Nuufolau Joel Seanoa, voice of ''Power of the Primes'' Predaking), but I don't have clearance to do so. How can I get this clearance?

--[[User:TomServo88|TomServo88]] ([[User talk:TomServo88|talk]]) 16:21, 9 January 2018 (EST)
: Not necessary; someone beat you to it. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 16:28, 9 January 2018 (EST)

== Pete's Robot Convention 2018 ==

Should we consider customization class POTP Shattered Glass Swoop or Double Pretender Gears as official figures or not since Pete's Robot Convention isn't endorsed by HasTak? They are using HasTak and Funpub molds (whom the latter lost the license) so I am not so sure. So should we list them under toys or in the notes like Action Master G2 Breakdown? [[User:Notirishman|-west james/notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 17:26, 13 January 2018 (EST)
:Those are no different from any other unofficial fan customs repainted from official molds that we don't cover here. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 08:24, 14 January 2018 (EST)

== Downtime ==

Our web host has to do some maintenance to mitigate the recently discovered CPU vulnerabilities. The Wiki will therefore unavoidably be unavailable for a period of time at 2am and 7am UTC on the 15th. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 04:45, 14 January 2018 (EST)

== Merging the Alpha Trion pages (or: "Grandpa Convergence") ==

Considering that the Hasbro position going forwards seems to be using "member of the Thirteen" as Alpha Trion's primary role, I propose that we apply the same standards to him as we do our other Thirteen articles and merge the various versions into a single page. Considering that we've already had a pre-Aligned source that claims that all Alpha Trions are basically the same, I think it's a good idea to bend our rules and consider them the same sort of "general archetype" as the Fallen, Prima, et al.

The two main issues I expect:
*"He has a ''Shattered Glass'' version, so it'd be silly to have him one one page!" - [[Unicron/Shattered Glass|So does Unicron]]. I figure we'd apply the same standards.
*"He was never a multiversal singularity!" - Neither were Amalgamous, Quintus or Alchemist, and we still combine their Aligned and IDW incarnations.

I'd also like to note that, as it stands, the [[Alpha Trion (WFC)|Alpha Trion]] who is most notable for being one of the Thirteen doesn't get to have the Alpha Trion Prime Master on his page. Thoughts? --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 15:26, 17 January 2018 (EST)
:If we need to have consistency, I think it's simpler to just apply our standard organization to the rest of the Thirteen and the gods instead of forcing G1 A3 into a format that basically ignores 30 years of his history. Optimus Prime is basically the same guy across families and sometimes one of the Thirteen, but we're not merging them all. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 17:56, 17 January 2018 (EST)
::Optimus's sitch is different in that he doesn't seem to be part of The Official List Of Thirteen, which is twelve dudes plus whatever a given piece of fiction wants the super special Thirteenth Prime to be. I don't think it'd be ignoring his history; the opening paragraph doesn't even have to mention his Thirteeniness, it can just say that he's one of the oldest living Cybertronians. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 18:46, 17 January 2018 (EST)

Having mulled this matter for some time, I have come around to Riptide’s position. Alpha Trion indeed has, on a relative scale, almost no variation in his characterization and design despite debuting long before multiversal singularities and continuing even afterwards. And as Riptide says, Hasbro blurring the lines between continuity families means that there is user-unfriendly thematic dissonance for us to not link G1-based ''Power of the Primes'' Landmine / Alpha Trion to Aligned Alpha Trion, who pioneered the concept. As for ''Shattered Glass'' Alpha Trion, he can just use a sub-page as is the case with ''Shattered Glass'' Primus and Unicron. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 20:14, 9 May 2018 (EDT)

== Create a list of 3rd party products. ==

There are a lot of third party products that are better than the official products such as Alien Attack Dino or Unique toys Peru Kill Lockdown, but we don't have a list of those.If you go to Dino page in the section of toys you only find the official ones (Hasbro and Takara) but why don't we put also Alien Attack Dino. It´s just a suggestion and this will help to expand the wiki. [[User:Crosshairs|Crosshairs]] ([[User talk:Crosshairs|talk]]) 17:00, 17 January 2018 (EST)Crosshairs
:TFWiki is a wiki about official Transformers products and media, and 'third party' toys aren't official. We have [[IP infringing item|an article]] to cover the ''phenomenon'', as we do many other TF-related fandom concepts like [[fan fiction]] or [[toy swapping]], but TFWiki will never, ever document 'third party' toys in the way we do official ones. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 17:01, 17 January 2018 (EST)
:: In fact, we have TWO [[knockoff|articles]] examining the phenomenon at a broader level, but this wiki's focus always has been and always will be on official material. If you really want to look for examples, there's plenty of links on the Knockoff page. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 17:15, 17 January 2018 (EST)

== Optimus vs. Malignus cardart ==

I previously posted this in the holy grails talk page, but since not many people are going to check that out, I'm reposting it here. Anyways, [[:Image:CarreraCardArt.JPG|is this what you're looking for?]] I found it in a TFW2005 thread about rare Transformers. If any of you have found it already, then sorry... [[User:ShootingStar7X|ShootingStar7X]] ([[User talk:ShootingStar7X|talk]]) 08:31, 23 January 2018 (EST)
:Unfortunately, it's the original art that's needed - the cards themselves are too low-quality. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 11:26, 23 January 2018 (EST)
::I'd still say that this is a worthwhile image to have. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:25, 23 January 2018 (EST)
:::Sometimes a low quality image is better than nothing at all! --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 12:36, 23 January 2018 (EST)
::::As for the source of the image, [http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/threads/show-us-something-rare-from-g1-and-g2-only-and-we-rate-it-rare-or-not.222565/page-30#post-8043067 here it is]. Unfortunately, due to Photobucket now forcing its users to pay $399 yearly for third-party hosting, the image doesn't show up anymore. However, by viewing the source code using Internet Explorer, I managed to find the URL of the image. Although the image didn't display if I tried to view it on my PC, it managed to show up when I inputted the URL into my phone's browser! [[User:ShootingStar7X|ShootingStar7X]] ([[User talk:ShootingStar7X|talk]]) 13:42, 24 January 2018 (EST)

== POTP artwork ==

In my personal opinion, the artwork used for the ''Power of the Primes'' packaging is ''absolutely stunning'' How would you guys like it if some of them became the header images on their respective character pages? Personally, I think yes, but I would like your thoughts on it. If you agree, tell me which ones do you think should get the treatment. [[User:Notirishman|-west james/notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 16:59, 19 February 2018 (EST)
:I think it's tricky because the PotP artwork, while really nice, is always a representation of that specific toy. In my opinion, a good mainpic should be a clear representation of the character that isn't tied to a particular toy or incarnation. That said, I think all five Terrorcons' mainpics would be better as the PotP images (especially Rippersnapper - why is his mainpic just his alt-mode?) and Windcharger and Tailgate's too (as his IDW incarnation has entirely overshadowed his Marvel G1 version, methinks). [[User:The Wadapan|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 04:31, 20 February 2018 (EST)
::I agree with the whole clear representaion part of being a good mainpic. And for the Terrorcons, their art have all of them (except good ol' Rippy) ''only'' in their beast mode, so that doesn't work if you show discontent of having their at mode as their main pic (which could work cuz they are unique to the character). And how about Dreadwind, Darkwing, Firestar, and Moonracer? Their main pics seem ''too'' G1-esque in my opinion. [[User:Notirishman|-west james/notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 09:44, 20 February 2018 (EST)
:::"Characters often have multiple bodies, so the main image should generally be their original "real world" form, and as full-body as possible. " --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 09:50, 20 February 2018 (EST)
::::POTP art shows the full-body. [[User:Notirishman|-west james/notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 10:02, 20 February 2018 (EST)
:::::But it is not of their original forms. Except for Slash. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 10:08, 20 February 2018 (EST)
Oh. Whoops. Didn't actually re-check the PotP artwork, so if it doesn't fix the alt-mode-only problem then there's no point. On a related note, I'm going to work on cropping proper-resolution Marvel profile artwork from Classics Vol. 8 to replace the fuzzy-looking ones we already have on here in the meantime. Do we have access to clean versions of the Legends game / collector card style artwork? Seems like another thing to look into. But yes, the Powermaster/Elita 1 etc mainpics that we have are the clearest representations of their designs I've seen. Just need better resolution, maybe.[[User:The Wadapan|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 10:36, 20 February 2018 (EST)
:Really? Dreadwind and Darkwing just have G1 boxart... ''that looks exactly'' like the G1 toy. Blocky and all. Moonracer and Firestar just have their G1 cartoon models. That doesn't really scream "a clear representation of the character that isn't tied to a particular toy or incarnation". [[User:Notirishman|-west james/notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 11:19, 20 February 2018 (EST)
::Doesn't matter because those aren't the guidelines. Those are Wadapan's opinions on what the guidelines should be. What I posted was taken directly from our [[Help:Example character article]].--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 11:26, 20 February 2018 (EST)
:::With permission to change Dreadwind, Darkwing, Moonracer, Firestar, Tailgate, and/or Windcharger? [[User:Notirishman|-west james/notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 11:46, 20 February 2018 (EST)
::::Considering that 1) there's only the three of us discussing this and 2) such replacement is against the guideline I quoted, the answer is no. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 11:58, 20 February 2018 (EST)
:::::How is it against the guidelines? [[User:Notirishman|-west james/notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 12:05, 20 February 2018 (EST)
::::::Because that artwork is based on the new toys and not on the character's actual first design.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:34, 20 February 2018 (EST)
:::My bad, didn't realise we had such specific guidelines. Sorry to co-opt this thread, but I've uploaded the Classics version of [[Afterburner (G1)|Afterburner]]'s TFU profile art as an example for how the others would change. They all seem fuzzy and washed-out to me at the minute. My questions are:
:::*Do we want to include the vehicle mode? It's been done previously on some pages, but not on others.
:::*Do people actually prefer how the newer version looks?
:::--[[User:The Wadapan|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 14:14, 20 February 2018 (EST)
::::Understood Khajida. I also didn't know we had such specific guidelines. [[User:Notirishman|-west james/notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 14:47, 20 February 2018 (EST)
::::Wadapan, the newer version definitely looks better, as for if we need vehicle mode, I'd say its not necessary, but I could be wrong. [[User:Notirishman|-west james/notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 14:50, 20 February 2018 (EST)

== Listing the Thirteen ==

So, this is related to my Alpha Trion suggestion above, but I figured it's big enough to warrant its own section. In short: the way we present [[Thirteen#Members|the members of the Thirteen]] right now is kind of a mess. It gives the impression that the "Multiversal Thirteen" list is the "true" version and that Aligned and IDW are weird aberrations, rather than the CoP list being the "official Hasbro-approved Thirteen" and the AVP list being a bunch of names created in the knowledge that the concept was soon going to be disposed of altogether - and while that's technically the correct way to do things under the "everything is canon" principle, it's kind of unintuitive and difficult, so I think we should apply the "but some canon is more equal than others" policy. Similarly, it acts like the IDW Thirteen are different to the Aligned Thirteen, when they have the same lineup; certainly, they're less different than the IDW Pretenders to the Marvel Pretenders.

As such, I've created a mock-up of a [[User:Riptide/Sandbox:Thirteen members|new version]] of the "Members" section of the Thirteen's page. My core intent was:
*Making clear that the Covenant Thirteen were the "official Thirteen" being used by Hasbro;
*Establishing that the Thirteenth Prime varies within uses of the Covenant Thirteen, but is always "special";
*Explaining that the true identities of the Multiversal Thirteen were ambiguous;
*Removing the redundant IDW list, which would be better served just explaining how the IDW Primes differ from the Covenant in the IDW fiction section.
*''Not'' removing any information that isn't covered elsewhere on the page.
Now, if we were to use this as the Alpha Trion pages are now, we would have to say that the "core" Thirteen contain either [[Alpha Trion (G1)|Alpha Trion]] or [[Alpha Trion (WFC)|Alpha Trion]], which is patently ridiculous... so I ''also'' created a sandbox for [[User:Riptide/Sandbox:Alpha Trion|an overview page for Alpha Trion]], which - in the name of length - would link out to separate Generation 1 and Shattered Glass sub-pages as the [[Unicron]] page does. (I'd like to point out that Ask Vector Prime did [[Ask_Vector_Prime/Facebook_src#July_28.2C_2015|establish]] that, for a short time, Alpha Trion ''was'' a multiversal singularity.)

Thoughts? Feedback? Whether my proposal is used or not, I ''do'' feel very strongly that the current Thirteen page is sub-optimal, and so I'd like to hear other proposals as how to improve it. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 19:26, 20 March 2018 (EDT)
:From what I'm seeing so far of what you have done, I think that this will be better than the current setup, as the TFWiki is to inform, and tghis helps readers ease into the subject matter. While, I have nothing to add on, I can say this is a good idea with good execution. On another note, on your new Alpha Trion page is also good in my book. And one question, will we change the [[Template:Thirteen]] along with this? I presume 'yes', correct, because I see no reason why not? [[User:Notirishman|--westjames/notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 20:41, 20 March 2018 (EDT)
:I disagree with your purpose(s), your reasoning, and your execution.
:(1) "Official Hasbro-approved Thirteen" is nonsense. We don't list things by "most prominent", we list them chronologically. And, chronologically, the Multiversal Thirteen was the only Thirteen that existed for eight years. I strongly disapprove of any organization scheme that says "''Oh, these guys were a thing once, but here's the more topically important guys you should be focusing on.''" This is for the same reason we don't put prominent fictions like IDW towards the top of pages, or put ''Revenge of the Fallen'' at the topic of the Fallen's fiction section, since waaaay more people saw the movie than ever read Dreamwave. The Thirteen, in particular, is such a confusing tale that laying things out chronologically helps explain how the concept unfolded.
:(2) The true identities of the Multiversal Thirteen are only ambiguous under the most technical and pedantic viewing of the information. We were given a list of Thirteen characters. It would be hampering the information we were given to "Well, technically..." it to death.
:(3) I agree with combining and generalizing the descriptions of the Aligned and IDW Thirteen.
:(4) I don't remotely understand how it's "unintuitive and difficult" to understand the difference between the Multiversal and Aligned lists, and why it requires us to make exceptions to the rules. Please explain that better. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 21:40, 20 March 2018 (EDT)
::Actually, Xaaron does make a good point. However, I think it is general consensus that the Thirteen page needs to be improved for reader's ease and organization sake. This is where I think the rest of your plans should fit in. [[User:Notirishman|--westjames/notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 22:23, 20 March 2018 (EDT)
::It's funny that you bring up the Fallen, because he's a case where we ''do'' break our rules - his mainpic is of his ROTF design rather than his Dreamwave design, because it's ''so'' absurdly more notable. I don't really see how you can argue that the internally-created-by-Hasbro list of Thirteen that has been used in two TV shows, a major comic series and one of Hasbro's flagship toylines is somehow equally or less important than the list of Thirteen that was created by a licensee as a bit of fanwank and was used for a few Facebook posts. Like, it doesn't even compare. We ''do'' [[Help:Ignore_all_standards|ignore all standards]] in cases where it would make things clearer for the audience, and acting like the AVP Thirteen matter as much as the Covenant Thirteen does ''not'' make things clearer for the reader. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 14:37, 21 March 2018 (EDT)
:::Actually, I'm not arguing that the Multiversal are more/equally important, I'm arguing that "importance" isn't relevant. But regardless, what about something completely different instead of preserving the current basic set-up? Something closer to the multi-universal Wreckers page?
:::Keep the conceptual history at the top to maintain a chronological explanation of the concept as it developed. Then include Wrecker-style membership lists at the top of each Fiction section for Multiversal (and subcategories), Aligned, IDW, etc.
:::These member lists could include minimal or no descriptions of the individual Thirteen so they can be stacked two or three columns across like the Wreckers. I feel descriptions of the Thirteen were more important when they had little to no outside fiction to draw upon. Now that they're their own characters with their own toys, etc., descriptions aren't needed.
:::Is that a compromise we can build from? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 15:14, 21 March 2018 (EDT)
::::Well, I certainly would want to keep the conceptual history in the first place - which is part of why I think we can afford to ''not'' put the member list in technical chronological order! I wouldn't be opposed to Wrecker-style membership lists in the fiction sections IN ADDITION to the general "Members" section, but I do feel like laying out who the "core Thirteen" are is... kind of important. I dunno, maybe you don't! --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 15:21, 21 March 2018 (EDT)
:::::I don't. I really don't. I disagree with even referring to them as "the core Thirteen". I think you're confusing "now" with "core". There isn't a core Thirteen, in my mind, just a current Thirteen for whatever fiction you're following. The reason my mind went to the Wreckers page is, just because there are a "core" Wreckers (the seven toys from Marvel UK's first story) and "current" Wreckers (IDW's more expansive team), doesn't mean either get preference over the others on the Wiki page.
:::::And despite your insistence, even ''now'' Hasbro isn't sticking with a single "core Thirteen" list. They've already backed off from the Covenant, turning Optimus Prime into "The Arisen" for IDW. The Titans Return cartoon mentioned Sentinel Prime instead of following the Covenant. Even the Prime Master toys haven't managed to put out all 13 Thirteen. No version of the Thirteen listed by Hasbro since the Covenant of Primus has ''stuck'' with the CoP list perfectly.
:::::I know you feel people are over-emphasizing the AVP-listed Thirteen (which is ironic, considering your opinions during the AVP period). But I feel you are over-emphasizing the CoP Thirteen, when even Hasbro isn't following that list ''precisely''. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 16:02, 21 March 2018 (EDT)
::::::I feel like the "core Thirteen" ''are'' more cohesive than you're giving credit for. The Arisen and the POTP "whoever holds the Matrix" take are clearly reinterpretations of "Optimus as the Thirteenth"... and frankly, I think the mention of Sentinel is more a matter of poor research than indicative of Hasbro's feelings on the membership of the Thirteen. But, you know, we can't agree on everything. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 18:18, 21 March 2018 (EDT)
:I do think that merging the Aligned and IDW sections is a good idea, as is making clear that they're the main "Hasbro approved" Thirteen. I think the "Multiverse" Thirteen should still have their own section separate from the "Other Members" section, I'm not sure what to name it though or whether it should go before or after the "Hasbro" Thirteen. I'm fairly neutral on the merging of Alpha Trion's pages, but if we do go through with that I think we should link out the Aligned section as a sub-page as well. [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] ([[User talk:Omegatron|talk]]) 05:51, 22 March 2018 (EDT)

Chiming in to digress and say I absolutely disagree with merging the Alpha Trions and think the idea of having the individuals have one article each regardless of continuity family was a terrible one. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 16:22, 21 March 2018 (EDT)
:So, to be clear, you'd rather that, say, Vector Prime had separate "Vector Prime (Cybertron)", "Vector Prime (WFC)", "Vector Prime (G1)", and "Vector Prime (Transtech)" articles? --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 18:19, 21 March 2018 (EDT)
::Yes. I don't really consider them different from any other character in this respect. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 18:32, 21 March 2018 (EDT)
:::Huh, there is no way we can satisfy everyone, eh? and its hard to say whats best for the wiki as there aren't even enough people participating in the conversation to give an opinion. If you want my opinion, Riptide, I agree with the way you had it on the sandbox page, but that's just my opinion. I'm also on board for the Alpha Trion merge. If there's one thing I would change is to change 'Main members' and 'core members' to 'Current members,' as generally that is more clear-cut and to-the-point than 'core members.' [[User:Notirishman|--westjames/notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 21:44, 21 March 2018 (EDT)
::::So what's our verdict, eh? [[User:Notirishman|--westjames/notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 16:42, 26 April 2018 (EDT)

== Transformers Telephone ==

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLnGA-s3LR4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWh_ZXmFyng
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm5080655

I think I've found 3 of them: Convoy, Hound and Starscream. From what understood from these videos, they're introducing themselves. I hope this is useful

== HTTPS ==

This site is now available securely by putting https at the start of the URL thusly: https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Main_Page

Please test and let me know if you run into any issues. At the moment the only one I know about is that some actions (saving an edit, using the random page function) will throw you back to the non-secure site, but once the non-secure site is redirecting to the secure one, that should be fixed. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 15:51, 31 March 2018 (EDT)
:Will switch on redirecting some time in the next few days. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 18:24, 2 April 2018 (EDT)

== "Optimus Prime's involvement in the preceding events blah blah" ==

Do we honestly need those notes? They're an eyesore and telling readers they showed up in a coloring book adaptation isn't particularly illuminative. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 10:14, 5 April 2018 (EDT)
:Context? --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 10:51, 5 April 2018 (EDT)
:It saves us from writing up multiple sections that are basically duplicates of each other. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 11:20, 5 April 2018 (EDT)
::We don't need or do that either? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 11:51, 5 April 2018 (EDT)
:::We don't do that because these notes take care of it. If we remove the notes, we would need to add fiction sections for these coloring books and such that would simply duplicate the existing movie section. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 12:24, 5 April 2018 (EDT)
::::Yeah, I mean, as petty as it seems to summarize coloring books, we really shouldn't start drawing lines in the sand as to what fiction is worthy of being documented and what is too small. Those notes in the G1 cartoon summary sections may look a little fugly, but they strike me as a decent compromise to include that info without having to give it its own section on some already bloated (Optimus Prime (G1)) pages. Plus, they're a little handy for reference since I know at a glance exactly where in the G1 cartoon summary section The Movie is, which conveniently bisects things when skimming, but that's just me. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 14:05, 5 April 2018 (EDT)
:::::Right. The whole goddamn '''''point''''' of the wiki is to link out to a breadth of relevant information. And part of that information is all the fictional outlets available, including coloring books, kids' storybooks, etc etc etc etc. Sometimes those outlets are simply recaps of stories from "larger" media, so, in the interest of saving space, the note. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 00:27, 6 April 2018 (EDT)

== OJ Simpson ==

Is it ok to make a Page on OJ Simpson, since he was on [[The Transformers Universal Studios Tour]] page? I'm like scared about this right now. [[User:Energizer|Energizer]] ([[User talk:Energizer|talk]]) 02:26, 6 April 2018 (EDT)
: He only really appeared in a single commercial that was BARELY Transformers related. I'd say follow the precedent set with Peyton Manning's Universal commercial during the Super Bowl and just use a Wikipedia redirect. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 02:51, 6 April 2018 (EDT)
:: Nobody wants a TFWiki article on The Juice more than I do, believe me. But I think Cyberlink is right (though I suppose [[Alex Karras]] gets a pass because the commercial he did was directly for Transformers and not just a promotion that incidentally included Transformers). --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] ([[User talk:DrSpengler|talk]]) 10:55, 6 April 2018 (EDT)
:::I think you hit the nail right on the head there as to the criterion, Spengs.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 11:19, 6 April 2018 (EDT)
:::And I'm going to Hell for the joke I'm wanting to make about the 8-piece Family Pac he's holding in that photo.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 11:26, 6 April 2018 (EDT)
::::Thank you guys. I'm just relieved that this nightmare on the Juice is over. [[User:Energizer|Energizer]] ([[User talk:Energizer|talk]]) 17:27, 6 April 2018 (EDT)

== Links to the GoBots/IDW Hasbro sister wikis on the main page. ==

I've brought this up several times on the Allspark forums, but it never gets any traction there, so I'm bringing this here. We need to have links from the main page to the two others that isn't some "disambiguation" gimmick that changes every time you reload the page. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 23:30, 29 April 2018 (EDT)
:Seconded. There's currently only a 1 in 21 chance of people seeing either link in the disambig box, assuming they even look at it. They definitely need their own dedicated links. I might even suggest going so far as to add a box for them in the side bar, perhaps between the Toolbox and the Advertisement. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 23:47, 29 April 2018 (EDT)
::This isn't something that needs seconding, this is something that just needs to be done. I don't know why creating links to them wasn't one of the first things we did when the wikis were created, because as it is now, those wikis are basically unknown. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 08:52, 30 April 2018 (EDT)

== RID01/Car Robots names ==

I brought this up on the Allspark, but again, I'll bring it up here; our current write-ups for Legends and Unite Warriors stuff where RID 01 characters appear use the Japanese name, despite that going against our rules. The current justification-that Car Robots takes place in G1 unlike RID-doesn't really justify it, and as it is now, it just feels "weeaboo"-ish. Most of the western fandom that has any knowledge of RID01 is going to use the English names, and as it is now, it's just confusing. I do get things like Fire Convoy, Gigatron, and Brave Maximus being used, but we don't need Sky-Byte listed as "Gelshark". [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 08:57, 30 April 2018 (EDT)
:There is also the fact that for the Unite Warriors toyline, as Takara used the Japanese names in Katakana and the Hasbro names in Latin script, for Baldigus they kept the Car Robots names in both Katakana and Latin Script instead of using "Ruination" et al in Latin script. Same goes for the two Legends LG-EX Black Convoy toys using "Black Convoy" instead of "Scourge" in Latin script. Granted, Legends Gelshark did use "Sky-Byte" in Latin script, but two-to-one Car Robots character toys kept the Car Robots name, and that toy did come before Sakamoto really got going with his Car Robots Continuation plot.
:But the point is, the fact that the Japanese names were kept in Latin script for the Car Robots versions of the characters sounds to me like, from Takara's perspective, the English names of the Car Robots versions of the characters (the ones who exist in the same world as all of the Japanese G1 and Japanese Beast Era characters, as opposed to the RiD 2001 versions of the characters who occupy their own separate and unique reality) are their Japanese names.
:As for the "weeaboo" thing, to me, what would be weeaboo-ish would be to refer to the characters as "Faiyā Konboi", "Gigatoron", "Bureibu Makishimasu", etc., or even to write their names in raw Katakana ''instead'' of Latin script, and that is unquestionably annoying. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 10:50, 30 April 2018 (EDT)

== "First appearances" on IDW pages ==

As can be seen on "[[Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 1]]". Why did we stop doing this? It seems rather useful. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 20:26, 18 May 2018 (EDT)

== Multiple co-brandings in headings ==

Increasingly in recent years Hasbro has been lumping multiple (sub)line names together, mostly under the ''Generations'' mega-banner. Now I’m generally of the philosophy that multiple indented headings are not necessary in cases of only 1 applicable toy (line) like [[Fortress Maximus (G1)/toys]], [[Black Shadow (Victory)]], and [[Deathsaurus (Victory)]], but it occurred to me that unlike with the ''Prime Wars Trilogy'' most people probably have the mindset of ''Studio Series'' as its own thing first and not as a subset of ''Generations''. And since we already do indented headings for movieverse characters who are in a dozen size classes, I’ve tried labeling ''Studio Series'' in cases such as [[Megatron (Movie)/toys]], [[Jazz (Movie)]], and [[Grimlock (AOE)]] for easier user accessibility. What do y’all think of this approach? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 15:56, 27 May 2018 (EDT)
:I'm not the greatest fan because it breaks from our norm. I say either change all of the Generations' sections to include subline imprints, or don't. I'm just a little OCD about it, that's all. And I think you should've put this post up before you made all your changes. [[User:Notirishman|--notirishman]] ([[User talk:Notirishman|talk]]) 16:08, 27 May 2018 (EDT)

== Quidd ==

As some of you may know, Hasbro partnered with Quidd to make digital merchandise. How are we supposed to catalog this. Make a page for Quidd and put everything there? or add a digital merchandise section alongside the existing merchandise and toy sections that already exist. [[User:Victinoko|Victinoko]] ([[User talk:Victinoko|talk]]) 20:25, 3 June 2018 (EDT)
:I don't know that we need a separate section for digital merchandise. Just stick it with the other merchanidse for now. If it turns out there's a ton of it, we can look at splitting it out. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 21:21, 3 June 2018 (EDT)
::There already is a fair amount of Quidd merchandise. And there's more coming. But anyways, when we list them I think we should put the set it's in, the packs you can get them in, and how many coins it would cost to get those packs, and their set number. any other info would you need? also, would the format be

::Quidd

::(Set name here)

::(Figure name here)

::Info

::Like how we do figures, or would we put the set name in brackets next to the 3d Figure/sticker/card name? [[User:Victinoko|Victinoko]] ([[User talk:Victinoko|talk]]) 18:06, 4 June 2018 (EDT)

== How do I make a user page?==

I am a new user, how do I make a user page? [[User:Puppetroblox|Puppetroblox]] ([[User talk:Puppetroblox|talk]])

User talk:Puppetroblox

2018-06-09T23:37:41Z

Puppetroblox: Created page with ":: Here is my talk/discussion page."

:: Here is my talk/discussion page.

Talk:Bumblebee (film)

2018-06-09T23:34:14Z

Puppetroblox: N