Talk:Main Page

2009-03-19T21:00:44Z

Random Idiot 8:

THE FUNNY STAYS.
-The Management

__TOC__

Please use this talk page for discussion about the [[Main Page]].

To discuss site-wide policies, please visit [[Transformers Wiki Talk:Community Portal|the Community Portal talk page]].

==Archives==
*[[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1|Archive1]]
*[[Talk:Main_Page/Archive2|Archive2]]
*[[Talk:Main_Page/Archive3|Archive3]]

==WHA'PPEN?==

So...what on Earth has happened to the TFWiki? Also, for some reason the old Wikia seems to have gained all of the articles that are now missing from here. (Such as the Season 3 animated stuff)
:Seems to me that we've reverted to a June 2008 version of the database which could be really bad news. Some of my articles [[Macabre]] for example are at the old site but not here, which would make sense since I wrote it in September 2008 before we moved here. I don't even have a login here anymore - Emvee :( [[Special:Contributions/77.102.92.218|77.102.92.218]] 19:31, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::Looks like our brain-damaged friend is back again.
:::There's some more info on the [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=51208&view=findpost&p=1155749 wiki thread in the Allspark forums]. Looks like an upgrade handled very very sloppily. I'm hoping once they restore the old database it'll overwrite the changes made in the interim, seeing as how our favorite Idiot Vandal With No Life is on a rampage. (Sigh.) Wiping out his stupid crap in one go would be priceless. (This is Jeysie, BTW.) --[[Special:Contributions/72.79.219.120|72.79.219.120]] 19:41, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::Thank Primus. I was worried someone had hacked in and deleted the database. The thought of 6 months work lost filled me with dread. --abates 19:46, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::Ditto. Dread all round here too. Good to know it's in hand. --Emvee [[Special:Contributions/77.102.92.218|77.102.92.218]] 19:48, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::You know... assuming it does get overwritten so we don't have to worry about undoing it, watching our pet vandal complain about how the wiki malfunctioning prevents him from vandalizing properly is one of the most morbidly hilarious things I've seen in a while. -Jeysie --[[Special:Contributions/72.79.219.120|72.79.219.120]] 20:07, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::::Don't I know it, I was just having a laugh at that with the other half :) --Emvee [[Special:Contributions/77.102.92.218|77.102.92.218]] 20:16, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::You know, there are some benefits about this. On the one hand, people don't have to worry about being spoiled about TransWarped. On the other, we get to see Assaulthead self-destruct in rage as he can't vandalize the wiki. However, there is one concern: What if they can't retrieve the lost information? -- (SFH) [[Special:Contributions/67.164.210.225|67.164.210.225]] 20:11, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::I'm assuming that Bookworm made a database backup before he started work. Should be fairly simple to upload it again. Which means this conversation never happened. --Emvee [[Special:Contributions/77.102.92.218|77.102.92.218]] 20:16, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::I've decided I don't want to think about what happens if he didn't. (Realistically about all we could do is a crapload of trawling through Google's cache, but even then we'd pretty much be seriously hosed.) --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.219.120|72.79.219.120]] 20:18, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::I didn't spot this thread until right after emailing Suki and Walky (one knows the code well, the other is right by the servers) about the situation (though I figure they already know), as I thought it might have been Assaulthead showing a heretofore hidden hacking genius. (Hey, if Bulkhead can be a space bridge genius...) I hope to heck we don't lose all those months of work. Someone really needs to work on that update process... --Apcog [[Special:Contributions/99.158.0.251|99.158.0.251]] 20:21, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::It would be a real pain if all that work was lost. I hope it's not. How long would it take to get everything back up again? --Tribor

Guys, stop worrying and check out the community portal talk page. That's been restored and its last post was only a couple of days ago. Unless that's the ''only'' page on the enitire wiki that was backed-up, the most that could maybe have been lost is a couple of days' worth. (Okay, as soon as I wrote this, that page got fucked up, too.) The main thing to think about is first-time visitors seeing the site like this. - Magnus Maximus
:I just find it sad that the only person who can log in (with multiple usernames, it seems) is the guy with the (so imaginative) gift for profanity. --Emvee [[Special:Contributions/77.102.92.218|77.102.92.218]] 20:49, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::That's only because he keeps making new accounts every time he shows up, since we keep blocking the old ones.--Apcog [[Special:Contributions/72.48.68.223|72.48.68.223]] 00:15, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

What worries me, is... why is the database even that far back? Even if we somehow lost everything, we should at least be stuck in how the wiki looked when we first arrived, but we've been rolled almost three months before that. (The last edits in the histories all seem to be mid-June 2008, but didn't we move here in mid-September 2008?) --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.219.120|72.79.219.120]] 21:02, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
: Yeah, but IIRC we moved in with an older backup and ended up losing a little bit of stuff? -hx [[Special:Contributions/24.30.97.198|24.30.97.198]] 21:14, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::Only a few weeks at most, though, IIRC, not three months' worth. (Not that it really matters if we did lose everything, it just makes me even more worried that this backup/upgrade wasn't done right.) --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.219.120|72.79.219.120]] 21:24, 15 March 2009 (EDT)

:::I just don't uderstand why there wasn't a working failsafe in case something like this happened. I mean come on have you ever heard of an SD card or floppy disk? --E-Bot
Somebody set up us the bomb. --Interrobang 21:26, 15 March 2009 (EDT)

Straight up! I agree, it dosesn't make any sense Dawg. Yo but you know i'm still concerned if something like this could happen again, and if the damage could much more worse than it is now. --The Man 21:19, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::There had been discussion for several months about creating a proper back-up system.
::::No one really thought it was important. *eyeroll* -[[Special:Contributions/207.224.69.82|207.224.69.82]] 23:00, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::I had a look at the page for exporting the database a week or so ago but couldn't work out how to make it give me any data. I kinda wish I'd stuck at it now. Oh well, I'm just hanging out for some sort of official word on what's happening now... --abates 23:09, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::Who are we gonna get the offical word from? Admin? I've only been able to track two. This is what really gets me though, I've put more work into this wiki in the past four months than any other time. But I'm kinda doubting that this entire thing was Assualthead, even though his fancy with profanity is some kind of wonderment. I hate worrying because it's like a rocking chair, it gives you something to do but doesn't get you anywhere.--AWT88--[[Special:Contributions/98.19.92.58|98.19.92.58]] 23:25, 15 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::Walky just [http://shortpacked.livejournal.com/481400.html blogged] on the matter.
::::::It looks like our host decided to spontaneously upgrade our software without warning or asking us first, forgot to make a database backup while doing so, things got corrupted and now he's slapped in the database we had during transition just to get things working while he digs through the backup archives to find the most up-to-date regular update.
::::::(I am not relaxing until this update is in-hand. That's the kind of flim-flam answer I usually associate with "oops it's all gone" unless I'm informed somethign is going to happen AHEAD of time.) -Derik
:::::::OK, I have [http://www.aldenbates.com/allpages.txt here] a list of all content pages on the Wiki from roughly 4 days ago. I am thinking of writing something to request and save the Google cache of every damn one of them tonight. Actually converting them to Wiki format and restoring them is another matter. --abates 00:34, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::::Google Cache is passable - I tried a few links that I was able to access and they were about at least a week to three weeks off. --lonegamer78 [[Special:Contributions/76.95.138.16|76.95.138.16]] 00:44, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::If you can automate such a thing, I'd say go for it, Abates, just in case. The TV Tropes folks saved their own wiki from a crash with Google's cache, so while it'll be a crapton of work, it'll still be way better than starting over after losing 9 months of work. And if it turns out we didn't need it because Idiot Server guy gets things running again, well... just a little time wasted, then. --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.218.38|72.79.218.38]] 01:21, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::::::::::Hrm, as I more or less expected, Google throttled me. I'm not sure of a better way to get the cache pages though. :/ --abates 02:26, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

The not-entirely-ultrahorrific news is that the Google cache of every page I've tested for is from March 9th. So at least there IS a record of really everything we've done here; we've only "lost" TransWarped and one or two comic issues.

But for fuck's sake we have to get this nailed down SOON.

First question: is it possible for Google to make a cache of the current lobotomized pages? How long will they rely on their March 9th cache of, say, Kup, before they make a new image of it based on the piece of shit Bookworm reverted us to? Can we ask them to STOP updating?

And does this current incarnation of TFWiki still have the quarter-million implanted redirects to Wikia in it? 'Cos if it does, fuck, we're better off pulling the plug on the site altogether and only putting it back when it's presentable. '''Thylacine 2000''' --[[Special:Contributions/74.73.131.210|74.73.131.210]] 11:03, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

:Agreed. There is absolutely no reason for the site to be up right now. We're begging Google to overwrite their old cache. '''Chip''' [[Special:Contributions/161.203.16.1|161.203.16.1]] 11:39, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

===Another thing comin'===
Okay, people, look here. I don't know jack from shit about databases and backups and servers and whatnot, but what I do know is this:

''This is a fucking catastrophe.''

In the very best possible scenario, we've had a site that's been down all freakin' day. That's if we're very, very lucky, apparently. This is also a site that goes down every single night at 1:10am central time, and stays down from several minutes up to an hour. Every. Single. Night. Like clockwork. This is a known issue and in 6 months, nothing has been done about it.

That's if we're lucky. If we're ''not'' lucky, and I'm seeing no reason to think we are, then we've lost ''eight months of work'', all thanks to some bizarre software update that... does what? Was it even necessary? Was something broken here? Was that whole thing where the site appeared to be working, was that just me hallucinating?

Furthermore, if this required taking down the whole site, ''why on god's green earth was a full backup not made immediately beforehand???''

Daily outages for 6 months, lost backups, no backups before software updates, and a site that's now rudderless. We were supposed to make a clean, sharp, snazzy break from Wikia, show that we'd be better off on our own and didn't need them. At the moment, we instead look like ''idiots'' who can't hack it.

We HAVE advertising money, yes? It is time to find a ''professional'' site host, and PAY THEM for their services so we can in turn get reliable hosting. The free charity hosting thing was very nice, but it seems we've gotten what we paid for. -- repowers, not freakin' signed in.

: Yeah, seriously, what was the server guy ''thinking''? The way this should have been done:
#Ask us first.
#Give at least a week's scheduled warning once we gave permission. (I mean... premiere of the first big TF info in a while kind of is a ''really'' bad time to be doing this sort of thing...)
#Put the wiki in locked-down Maintenance Mode.
#Backup the wiki.
#Upgrade.
#Test it out.
#Unlock the wiki.

:...I'm with you, there's gotta be some webhost we can pay that's better than this silliness. (I'd recommend Dreamhost, but admittedly, while they're more reliable than these folks, I still wouldn't offer it up for more than simple hobby sites.) --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.222.241|72.79.222.241]] 23:51, 15 March 2009 (EDT)

:Yeah, this was the ''one reservation'' I had against ditching Wikia - that entrusting our work to some random host would be riskier than a company that does nothing ''but'' wikis. Every time I mentioned it, I was either patted on the head or ignored. Maybe NOW the danger will be taken more seriously. - Jackpot [[Special:Contributions/216.231.37.133|216.231.37.133]] 00:53, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::In all fairness, this wasn't "some random host." This would be "the guy Walky pays to host Blank Label, where his livelihood resides." --Rosicrucian --[[Special:Contributions/67.232.209.132|67.232.209.132]] 01:15, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::Not just Walky, but all the other people on BLC. Near as I can tell, this kind of thing has ''never happened'' with the BLC servers before. '''M Sipher'''--[[Special:Contributions/75.177.130.173|75.177.130.173]] 05:38, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::And the problem is that Wikia was unreliable too, in entirely different ways. If we'd stayed with them the wiki might be up... but they'd also be randomly breaking things by upgrading without our permission, and screwing around with our content. Personally, I wish we simply had a webhost where we were allowed to do our own backups/upgrades... --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.218.38|72.79.218.38]] 01:21, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
::::Well, we had no real reason to suspect this would happen. Walkypedia has been on this same server, with the same hosting and same maintenance guy for years (albeit it's not a wiki of anywhere near this scale). Bookworm had, previously, seemed to have his act together. We just have to hope that he gets it back up, and that he's properly chastised by this.--Rosicrucian, [[Special:Contributions/67.232.209.132|67.232.209.132]] 01:24, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::It's just that... personally, I'm dismayed we were trusting an "outside" IT person to maintain our site anyway. I had thought Suki and Derik were handling things. I mean, If I'm going to host something on my own webspace from a webhost, I'm of the "Take my money, give me webspace, keep the space online, and let me handle the rest" mentality. Or at the very least, not do anything to my site unless I authorize it and I'm there watching... --Jeysie [[Special:Contributions/72.79.218.38|72.79.218.38]] 01:30, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

I beleve that we must do everything in our power to restore the wiki post-hast. Otherwise we will fall behind so far it may set us back weeks even months just to get caught up again. And if I might add that if anyone copied any of the articales we can use that information help fix the problem. I know it sounds complcated but we have to try. To me this not just a wiki it stands for everything Transfomers are. --D.J.Sky 03:35 15 March (2009)
:Ruined FOREVER, you mean? - Magnus Maximus 04:39, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

Aw, jesus, I was ''really'' hoping that when I woke up, this would all have been a dream or something. - - McFeely [[Special:Contributions/78.32.44.57|78.32.44.57]] 06:27, 16 March 2009 (EDT)
:That's exactly what I was hoping McFreely, but sadly it wasn't. I was hoping the site would be back up by now and we'd have four days of work to recreate, but no, it's still down. I mean ''come on'', the half-ass guys over at the wikia have almost everything we've put up in the past four days (not to our quality but still). I don't know guys... I hope it'll be back up by the time I get home from work tonight and might pull an all nighter trying to do what I can.--AWT88--[[Special:Contributions/98.19.92.58|98.19.92.58]] 10:53, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

::It's really a bad nightmare. Oww... I have same feeling with Chris. --(TX55) [[Special:Contributions/61.229.26.192|61.229.26.192]] 11:42, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

===Damage control===
Figured there should be a link here to the discussion Rob started on how to go about fixing all of this: [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central]] - '''Jackpot''' [[Special:Contributions/216.231.37.133|216.231.37.133]] 13:52, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

== Featured article ==

We have had the same thing there for like 50 years{{unsigned|Human in Disguise|02:22, 7 April 2008}}
:Not really. Jhiaxus was only made a Featured Article on March 2, 2008.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 06:05, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::With 6k articles, maybe we could switch the featured article every month?[[User:Spriteless|Spriteless]] 05:45, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
:::We try to when we can, but usually that involves a big push to improve the given article to featured article standards.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 06:30, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
:::: If someone was just going through the Wikia wikis they might assume that this wiki is a bit quiet. What about just chosing some of the bigger articles every now and again? The larger ones tend to the most highly polished, researched and moderated articles. [[User:Drmick|Drmick]] 19:20, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::Some of the big articles need work because alot of the stuff in them was written in 2006 before we established standards. For instance, G1 Ratchet's article was featured last year I believe, but it was really unevenly written in terms of quality. I mean, for some reason half of the article eschewed storylinks in favour of references. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 20:26, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
:We probably should set up some ground rules on what makes a featured article. Right now, it's pretty much what ever Walky wants. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 20:34, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Thunderwing, Nice. --[[User:Human in Disguise|Human in disguise]]

Out of curiosity, how often does it change, or is it just on a whim? [[User:Jeep!|Jeep!]] 14:30, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

== front tf page ==

i hate april fool pranks on my fave tf front page -dr
:What? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 23:11, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

== Funny ==
I think we should remove the funny nes on the page, If it stays, It will sound like a child has being messing up this place and Other people will think it doesn't make sense. [[User:Black rhino ranger|Black rhino ranger]] 09:01, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:You're going to find yourself in the minority regarding this opinion.--[[User:Suzyprime|Suzyprime]] 13:02, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

:Actually, Ranger, people are more likely to think this wiki "doesn't make sense" if it's edited by people who can't spell, conjugate, or use capital letters correctly. [[User:JW|JW]] 18:37, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Who made this again. [[User:Black rhino ranger|Black rhino ranger]] 19:55, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:If that's a question, I don't understand it. [[User:JW|JW]] 20:33, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

But we should Make the images Info not funny, Transformers is ment to be serious, not funny. [[Special:Contributions/82.17.140.55|82.17.140.55]] 15:47, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
:Bullshit. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 17:46, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
::Transformers be [[Bee in the City|'''''serious business''''']] yo. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 18:00, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
:Sir, your erudite argument has at last shown me the light. I have been in error all this time, and you have turned the glare of knowledge against the darkness of my ignorance. Verily, we must all change our ways, and treat the stories about outer space robots that turn into cars as Serious Business. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 18:20, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

But it is unencyclopediac. It looks like a two year old vandalism. [[Special:Contributions/82.17.140.55|82.17.140.55]] 11:33, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

:Thanks for sharing your viewpoint, but, you are very much in the minority. If you object that strongly, start your own Transformers wiki and make it boring. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 21:41, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

:: Or just read the transformers entries on wikipedia. I'm also guessing most people don't like it when you call our writing "like a two year old vandalism". [[User:(Undecided)|(Undecided)]] 03:10, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Face it! Not Everyone likes funny wikis. [[Special:Contributions/82.17.140.55|82.17.140.55]] 15:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
:Since we're one of the largest, highest-traffic wikis on Wikia, I don't think the people who object to "the funny" are a significant enough constituency to force us to change.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:27, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
:Not everyone likes peanut butter! Therefore they should stop making peanut butter. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:31, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

==Search==
So, uh, what happened to the ability to type something into the text box, click "search," and not have it take me directly to a page, but give me a list of pages the term appears in instead? There is no search button on the front page! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:37, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:For as long as I've used the wiki, the Search function has only done that for me if what I've typed didn't match the title of any article exactly. As for the front page, I still see the Search box. I don't know if it makes a difference, but I'm using the Monaco skin.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 14:12, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::That doesn't match my experiences. I could type in "Megatron," click Search, and then it'd give me a list of pages that mention "Megatron" in the body of the text. It was very useful. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:54, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::On the topic of the Monaco skin, can we get some admin feedback on the Monaco skin discussion, please? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:32, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::To be sure, yes, that would be useful. As it is, now you'd have to type something like "Megatron's" or "Megatron" and another word to get similar results. And yeah, I've seen notices for the admins from [[User:Toughpigs|Toughpigs]] asking for feedback and wondered when that was going to be resolved.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 15:13, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:Regarding the search box - typing something into the box and hitting "enter," or clicking "go," is the option that takes you directly to the page with the title you've typed. Typing something into the box and actually clicking the button marked "search" is the option that brings up a list of stuff containing the term, and that's the button we appear to have lost here (although on my screen at least, it's coming and going intermittently, but that's probably a browser cache thing). I've not got the Monaco skin on, but regarding that, I rather like it, and I'd like to see it implimented. There's something very "bare bones" about our set up here, and of course, I know that we kinda have that as a show of "not taking everything too seriously," but I'd personally like to see the Monaco skin in use. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 15:30, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::The same function is in the "Advanced Search" link. Am I the only one who sees it or something? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 18:17, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Cripes, I can't insert a comment before three more jump in before me. No, there's definitely no Search button visible in the Monaco skin as I'm using it, just an arrow with a magnifying glass icon in it (the equivalent of the "Go" button, obviously). I see the "Advanced search" link too, but it doesn't offer quite the same function, in that it doesn't default to the "all text occurrences" option. Rather, you have to choose settings to get that. Not a terrible extra step, but still...--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 18:32, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I see the advanced search link. I also ''REALLY LIKE'' the new 'random page image link' above the search box. Who do I have to thank for that? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 18:28, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I put it in, but it was Siph's idea. Breaking the "Search" button under non-Monaco themes was also my doing, I'm afraid; I was a little zealous with putting in a more useful search and it didn't quite work. It should be back in a day or two. I somehow totally missed any discussion on Monaco coming up; I'll get to commenting on that. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 19:50, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Primarily Wookieepedia for the idea, Blitz for the implementation, and I suppose me for harraunging her about it. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:48, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::A random page on search function is really a good idea because that would make us know about more characters. By the way, I think there still need a normal ''search button'' in the original place . :D --[[User:TX55|TX55]] 01:37, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Then I thank you guys for it. '''IF''' we switch to Monaco, is there any way to do a similar function with that skin? I think the function is very helpful for newcomers to the wiki (and Transformers in general) for they don't have to look through lists of names or randomly search for things. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:17, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::::I don't think it'd be too hard. If we ''do'' switch to Monaco, there'd need to be some changes done to the search box anyway, since under that, there's no "search" button. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 05:56, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
: Is there a way to make the search image load earlier? Right now it's the very last thing to load; even the flash ads come up earlier. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 02:24, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
:: The short answer is no, unfortunately. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 05:56, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Why does the bar show pictures of random characters, but when you go to their pages they have no visual representation? [[User:90.198.228.42|90.198.228.42]] 20:28, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
:Because... I don't know really. I don't know why the powers-at-be chose to create these little search pictures for characters that have no pictures. One would think if they had a reasonably sized image to create the search button picture, they could have uploaded the full size image for the page itself. And/or create searchbox pic-links for characters that DO have decent visual representation AND largely completed articles. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 22:39, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
==Familial relationships==

Should we put something up, relating to the idea of siblings or such[[User:GWolfv2]]
:See [[Relatives]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 15:07, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

== Redesigning the front page ==

Now that the Monaco skin is the default, and Toughpigs is around to help us out, I suggest we figure out a way to redesign the front page so it isn't just a columns of text. Is there any reasonable way for us to have the franchises in the By Series (or anywhere else, really) represented by the franchise logos? The logos can be as recognisable as the names alone, and given we're getting more and more visitors every day, it would be helpful to make the place more visually pleasing and more user-friendly. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 20:30, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
:I think that's still a [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive2#Logos_for_.27By_series.27_column|bad idea]]. The logos were never designed to look good together, and some (like the 2007 movie) are anti-informative. If you can present a design that somehow makes it work, please do. But I don't see how the new skin changes the basic problems. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 20:56, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
::I tend to think the Main Page and its columns of text are just fine as is. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 21:04, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
::Also, wouldn't it perhaps be best to wait a few days for everyone to get home from BotCon before starting a discussion on more major changes like this? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 21:08, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Didn't stop Toughpigs redesigning the whole Wiki... - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:18, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Toughpigs has been touting the switch to Monaco for quite some time, and he only finally got the nod from an admin just before BotCon.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 23:22, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
Just wanted to say I love the new look.

===Ad bar issues with Monaco?===
I don't know if it's just me, but trying to load the Wiki in Firefox results in it loading everything up to the adserver stuff, and then Firefox proceeds to hang the fuck up, completely use up all available memory, and force me to kill it through Task Manager. It's kind of a pain in the ass.(I'm using explorer right now) [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 00:22, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
:I've had no troubles with Firefox 2, nor Firefox 3 beta 5.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 00:37, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

== Improvement Drive ==
I have no idea how long the "Improvement Drive" column has been there, but it's a great idea, content-wise. However, IMO the links it contains should really be a permanent part of the Help/Start Here column. It's the kind of thing I was talking about [http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Transformers_Wiki_talk:Community_Portal#.22First_go_here.21__Next_go_here..22 a while ago]. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 22:56, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
:Giving this a bump. Input, anyone? Anyone? If nobody protests, I'd like to merge the contents of the "Improvement drive" section with the "Start here" section. Perhaps a blurb on a more specialized improvement drive -- say, our long-dormant BW improvement drive -- could take the place of the current one. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 20:20, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
::Giving this one last bump. If nobody objects, I'm making the changes. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 00:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:One of the reasons the Improvement Drive was disbanded on Wookieepedia was because we instead formed projects such as "Tales of the Jedi project" "The New Essential Chronology project". This allowed us to focus on groups of articles which were in need of updating instead of simply one article. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 00:42, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:::I fully support a "Project" initiative. (Cough cough prose stories cough.) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:07, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::::I can definitely live with that - it looks like one of the new users is actually working on RiD stuff, which is an area that I've felt could use more coverage - it's not my area of knowledge, tho. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 01:43, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::Yeah. I know a lot about the fiction in GENERAL, but when it comes to what happened in what specific episodes and issues? Not so much. Toys are more my forte... --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:49, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::It doesn't help that most of us would need to import the DVDs to write about the fiction. I've been thinking of doing that, but I've already bought a couple of hundred dollars worth of TF DVDs I don't really need soley for writing and screen capping articles for the wiki, which upon reflection is a little insane. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:03, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Please see [[User:Repowers/Sandbox]] for a test page. Feel free to tweak and/or comment. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 04:52, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
:I weaked the disclaimer, added a countdown to TF2 clock (the page de-caches a couple times a day, so it should remain accurate without having to re-edit, I did a sandbox text to verify) and I got rid of the clickable Animated logo, sicne that template still isn't working right and I haven't figured out how to make it work right.
:Re:Improvement Drive... How about we have a 'goals' list for the month? Like, 20 or 30 articles we want to get up to snuff, chosen for balance. A lot of piddling pages, a few episodes or comics no one's gonna get around to on their own, and one or two major character pages. We can track 'em at the end of the month and see how successful we were. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:47, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
::Giving this a bump.
::About the list of "ways to help"... thing is, those up-front lists should be geared toward attracting new editors -- new editors who by definition aren't going to know all the million little persnickety formatting things you have to know to set up a new page. Stuff like "fill in a stub" or "add storylinks" is a lot less intimidating, and a lot easier to slide into, than "here, make this page from scratch." I think an expanded list, akin to what's on my sample sandbox, should be near the top of the page, rather than a bunch of red links. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 22:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

== Main "Transformers Animated" image ==

It really ought to be clickable. Unfortunately, [[:Template:Click]] currently doesn't actually let you center an image-- it probably needs to be rewritten at some point. Unless someone else volunteers, this is mostly just a reminder to myself. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 18:53, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
:Someone just did that and now the link messes up the main page by covering the links to "Comics", "Generation 1", "(toyline/cartoon/comic)", "Generation 2", and "Help contents". Ugh, it was better off the way it was before. Besides, there was a link to the Animated franchise below the giant logo. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 23:27, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
::What poor excuse for a browser are you using? The TFA logo is ''above'' all that stuff. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 23:35, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
:::The image is, but the link is stretching down over the ones below it. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 23:59, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
::::I'm using Firefox, and the link ends WAY before that. I have no troubles whatsoever. - [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 00:20, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
::::Sabrblade, to repeat- "What browser are you using?" -[[Special:Contributions/75.168.112.43|75.168.112.43]] 01:35, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::Internet Explorer 7 is my browser on this particular computer (I use at least three different ones). --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 20:31, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::Well ''there's'' your problem. IE doesn't follow correct HTML protocol, and each version has a different way of not following it. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 21:19, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Just realized I'm having the same problem, using Firefox. The link to [[Transformers Animated (franchise)]] from the image is like, bleeding down or something, covering up some of the links below it. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 18:43, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::::Well, is there any other browser besides Internet Explorer and Firefox that doesn't have the problem? --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 01:31, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::I just went and had a look at [[:Template:Click]] and tried a few things, but it's beyond me. Can we not just do it in html? It would be a hell of a lot simpler...[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 12:51, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::Well, with the "no TF:A Dubai spoilers" text written by Chris McFeely, the image no longer covers the G1 and G2 links. It still bleeds down, but only over the link-free text. So until that text gets erased, the image bleeding isn't much of a problem (but it will be again once that text is gone).[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 01:02, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::Still covers them for me, and I'm using the latest Firefox. I'm going to edit this until someone can come up with a better solution - removing the Dubai text will just make it bleed lower down the page, surely... [[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 16:37, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::::If any one isn't getting the problem [http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h278/Undecided_tmn/Mainpage_error.jpg here is what it looks like] to me. It's the blue highlighted box. [http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h278/Undecided_tmn/Mainpage_error_IE-1.jpg Here is what it looks like in Internet Explorer]. Screen resolution is 1280x1024. [[User:(Undecided)|(Undecided)]] 22:15, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:I replaced it with an imagemap so it links directly to [[Transformers Animated (franchise)]]. Given that the same image is at the top of that page, I don't think we need the main page to link to the Image page if the only way of doing so messes up the rest of the page. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 21:50, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
::Imagemap is working on wikia now? Yay! IIRC it wasn't 18 months ago when you originally took a stab at <nowiki>{{click}}</nowiki> -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:10, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Just to check, can imagemap be set to pave part of the image link to the Image page, or is Click the only thing that can do that. (You'd think a template specificly created for use on the Wikia wiki wouldn't have these issues) --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 22:14, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
::::Wikipedia has a template like this that puts a little blue 'i' in the corner of an image- you click on that to get info about it. In this case it's moot-- a single click takes you to the TFA page that lets you access the image info. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:18, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

=="TF dates"?==
Something else Wookiepedia does on its frontpage we... might want to look at stealing... Putting up a "__/__/__: _____ was released" history box. I dunno. It would only be for like comic books, DVDs, TV episodes, street-release-date toys, etc. Though I dunno if TF really has enough... stuff to do that with. I dunno. Idle thought. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:47, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
:On paper, that's a cool idea. In execution, yeah, I don't think there's quite enough stuff to do it with. We know original episode air dates, and roughly know the street dates of the various comic issues, but we generally have no idea when various and sundry toys hit shelves before, what, '94? If we had enough stuff that there was something to put up at least twice a week (as a "This Week in TF History" thing) I'd say go for it. I guess we could stretch it and add birth dates of TF professionals and that sort of thing, but even then, we're a little sparse, I'd imagine. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 10:42, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

==Front page weirdness==
When clicking on the link for the Generation 1 (comic) or Generation 2 (comic) on the front page, I get taken to Animated (franchise)...but looking at the code the links appear to be correct, else I'd edit them. I've tried refreshing several times but the link is still wrong...anyone else seeing this? [[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 12:11, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] aha, just seen the discussion above about the link "bleeding down"...that would explain it [[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 12:15, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

==Search==
The current search bar only has a "Go" button,we can't look for articles by using keywords now. How are we supposed to look for things we don't know the name of now?[[Special:Contributions/86.87.28.191|86.87.28.191]] 20:54, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
:Isn't there a "Search" button right next to the "Go" button? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 20:57, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::I don't think there is a search button on the new skin but if you log in and set the wiki back to monobook in your preferences then you'll have a search button [[User:Donutter|Donut]] 21:02, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
: Are we talking Monaco skin, the one with the little arrow with the magnifying glass in it at the very top-left? Or the Monobook skin? I just put "thunder" in the former, clicked the arrow, and boom (ha ha), search results. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 21:23, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
::But "Thunder" isn't the name of an article. If it were, it would just give you the article without any other search results, even if you clicked on the magnifying-glass arrow. I can't tell if that's what the anthropomorphic IP address above was asking, but I do know I dislike the reduced functionality of Monaco's search box. As far as I can tell, typing a word and hitting Enter is the same as clicking the arrow. You CAN still search for all occurrences of a word by going to the "Search" link underneath the sidebar. But that's annoying for the need to go to a whole 'nother page. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 04:46, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Nevermind,i figured it out now. Just type "Search:" and then the keywoard before pressing enter. for example,to search for Optimus Prime without annoyingly being redirected,type Search:Optimus Prime .[[Special:Contributions/86.87.28.191|86.87.28.191]] 18:33, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
==Disambig pages==

I've seen three formats. The general, more common one like the Screamer one, the Prime style one and the BB one. Shouldn't we just stick with the one?[[User:GWolfv2]] 21.34 May 23rd
:The Prime page has to be like it is because there are so many things with "Prime" in their name that they need to be split. And why would we have a disambuig page for [[BB]]? If you're talking about Bumblebee, I don't think that page should be like that. Pictures do not help when the differences between one character's different bodies is about the same as the difference between his body and one belonging to another guy with the same name. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 22:00, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

==Prime Image==
Should an image Animated Prime be added to the front page? maybe replace Movie Prime in the picture if it needs to be a particular size? i think it should be updated to reflect the most modern incarnation of the character [[Special:Contributions/78.32.44.57|78.32.44.57]] 16:34, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
:Problem is, the front page's image is all from Takara's World Of Transformers page. We tried to add AniPrime in there but he didn't fit one bit, so until something better comes along, I do believe this image is going to stay as is. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 16:47, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

==Universe 2008==
I think you should ad a Universe 2008 link in the "by Series" section.
[[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:46, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
:Never mind, I got it. I didn't know I could edit the main page.[[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 17:07, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

== The Irony ==

:In a wiki about transformers their alt modes aren't even mentioned ANYWHERE! I find this odd... {{SUBST::User:Crystal lucario/Sig}} 21:06, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::There's two articles on popular vehicle and animal modes, transformation article etc. You can't list alt with every character when some don't stick with the one [[User:GWolfv2]] 22.11 June 4th
:::You can find the altmodes for characters, usually, on the Toys section of their articles. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:57, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
::::Ok, thanks. {{SUBST::User:Crystal lucario/Sig}} 11:19, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::psst- subst has to be lowercase. Also- too many colons. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 11:24, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Just as an example, G1 Optimus is often a semi-cab, but he's also officially transformed into...
* Cybertronic Mobile artillery (Marvel comics, pre-Earth)
* Sportscar (G2)
* Organic bat (super-early BW)
* Cybertronic truck-thing (War Within)
* HISS tank (Devil's Due G.I. Joe)
* Cybertronic pickup (e-hobby Orion Pax toy)
* Some kind of prehistoric animal (Hearts of Steel)
Plus, there was a canceled dump truck Optimus in G2, and plans to make him into a train for Hearts of Steel as well. I don't remember what he turned into for DW's Joe crossover. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 14:52, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
:Psst- I come from another wikia so it thought I had a sig. And to M Sipher thank you. I still think that should be somewhere in the artical. Maybe under Forms... {{SUBST::User:Crystal lucario/Sig}} 23:08, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Y'know, it just recently occurred to me that when we scan characters' profile art, we should probably include more than their robot mode. For instance, it seemed like [[:Image:Primal_FPUnivBio.jpg|this pic]] was served by including the gorilla mode because it emphasized the fact that it wasn't his original beast form. Then I uploaded [[:Image:SoundwaveCyb_FPbio.jpg|this image]] and included the jet because it was a particularly well-drawn alt mode. And now that I've done that... I'm going to make a point of including alt-modes whenever I can. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 02:39, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
:To save on space (tall images are the BANE of the wiki), I placed the smaller images (such as the alt mode) over part of the large images in a picture, such as [[:Image:G1Bomb-Burst_MTMTE1.jpg|what I did for Bomb Burst]]. Of course, I also mostly did it so the uploaded pics would look similar to the original Pretender boxart arrangement (shell behind, robot in the middle, vehicle in the foreground).
:Little Iron's Soundwave looks GREAT, btw. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

== 'Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen' countdown ==
There's 381 days (as of June 9th, 2008) until 'TF2:ROTF' comes out and already there's a countdown box? I know it's too late to remove it, but don't you think it's a ''little'' too soon to put one up? It's like this one 'Garfield' comic strip that was printed on December 26th with Garfield shutting off his alarm clock and declaring "365 days until Christmas!". Well, atleast the box isn't counting down the hours, minutes, and seconds. -[[User:Zadok Rox|Zadok Rox]] 12:47, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
:I started counting down the days in my head as soon as I learned the release date. I think it's all in good fun, no reason to remove it. [[User:(Undecided)|(Undecided)]] 01:13, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

== Since no one said anything... ==

The last discussion of a 'goals' list for the month... somewhere... petered out, so I just threw some on the front page. (Mostly nonexistant wanted articles.) They have a 'star' rating to show how complete they are which you can easily edit. Hopefully we can get these to 5 stars by the end of June! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
:Stubbed two of them already, hopefully with enough info that people can pick up easily.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|Talk]] 04:09, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

:As I said above -
:About the list of "ways to help"... thing is, those up-front lists should be geared toward attracting new editors -- new editors who by definition aren't going to know all the million little persnickety formatting things you have to know to set up a new page. Stuff like "fill in a stub" or "add storylinks" is a lot less intimidating, and a lot easier to slide into, than "here, make this page from scratch." I think an expanded list, akin to what's on my sample sandbox, should be near the top of the page, rather than a bunch of red links. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 22:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
::I would be for that. I wanted a lost of articles that needed to be brought to completion that were already clocked in. I just didn't know which to pick! Sub some out!
::I just-- I like the list because it gives a visible sense of progress (at the end of the month) on articles that no one would be inclined to work on on their own. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:59, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

==Should we have info boxes==
{{Transformers character|
name =Blitzwing
|image =blitzwing-animated.jpg
|caption =
|affiliation =Decepticon
|subgroup =Voyagers [[Triple Changer]]
|function =Berserker
|partner =
|motto =''"Whoooo, I'm freaking out!"'' <ref>[http://www.hasbro.com/transformers/animated/default.cfm?page=Bio&character=blitzwing Character bios for Transformers Animated characters]</ref>
|alternatemodes = Dual-Barreled Assault Tank/Fighter Jet
|series =[[Transformers: Animated]]
|engvoice = [[Bumper Robinson]]
|japanvoice =
}}

It is to include some detail like this for example

:It was decided against long ago for many logistical nightmare reasons, the primary ones being that so many characters have very different bodies, affiliations, functions, mottos, jump continuities... --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
:It would be a nightmare. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:32, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmmmmm, I see. [[Special:Contributions/82.17.140.55|82.17.140.55]] 09:26, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
:What is Optimsu Prime (G1)'s altmode? He's has close to 50. Even if 50% of them are trucks... the other 25 aren't. Character abilities, weapons and allegiance have shifted over ltierally millions of years, as have their bodies, catchphrases, names- and even genders.
:We've taken a serious look at character boxes at least 3 times, and every proposal, no matter comprehensive, it's easy to find a character for which the box simply... ''breaks'', being unable to accommodate the diversity of experience the character has had.
:Character boxes are a good idea, they provide a quick thumbnail overview of a character's history... but we don't want thumbnail overviews, we want in-depth infromation. If you wanted a thumbnail overview, go to Wikipedia, which deletes and trims articles containing 'unnecessarily in-depth information.' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 09:43, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

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