MediaWiki - User contributions [en]

Knock-off

2008-01-18T06:18:35Z

Sofaman: New page: A '''knock-off''' (often abbreviated to KO) is a reproduction of a toy produced without authorisation from the license-holder for that toy. In the case of Transformers, this means any tra...

A '''knock-off''' (often abbreviated to KO) is a reproduction of a toy produced without authorisation from the license-holder for that toy. In the case of Transformers, this means any transformers toy that is produced without authority from [[TakaraTomy]] or [[Hasbro]].

These toys are often (though not always) of poorer manufacturing quality than the original versions. They are frequently produced to be sold cheaply, produced in different colours or even different sizes to the originals. Only occasionally do these knock-offs actually pretend to be authentic Transformers - some are produced to a manufacturing standard comparable to the originals, and can be easily confused with originals on the secondary market.

Opinion is divided amongst fans about the value of knock-off toys - some fans see them as providing the only means of affordably acquiring certain toy moulds, while other fans insist that this attitude is what prevents TakaraTomy and Hasbro from being able to produce authorised reissues.

Some Transformers toys known to have knock-off versions are:

* [[Constructicons]]
* [[Aerialbots]]
* [[Protectobots]]
* [[Technobots]]
* [[Rumble]]
* [[Frenzy (G1)|Frenzy]]
* [[Ratbat]]
* [[Swoop (G1)|Swoop]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Bumblebee (Movie)

2008-01-03T14:00:45Z

Sofaman: /* Transformers (2007) */

{{disambig3|Bumblebee}}

:''Bumblebee is an [[Autobot]] from the [[Movie (franchise)|Movie]] [[continuity family]]. He is also known as N.B.E.-02 and Satan's Camaro.''

[[Image:MovieBumblebee_promorender2.jpg|right|thumb|300px|"Groovy, bee-otch!"]]

'''Bumblebee''' is one of [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]]'s most trusted lieutenants. Although he is not the strongest or most powerful of the Autobots, Bumblebee more than makes up for this with a bottomless well of pluck, determination and bravery. He would gladly give his life to protect others and stop the [[Decepticon]]s.

Badly damaged in a conflict with [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]], Bumblebee lost the ability to speak verbally, though he can still communicate over inter-Autobot frequencies (in a fashion that seems somewhat akin to instant messaging, a usable but more distant and less personal means of interaction).

:''Hungarian name'': '''Űrdongó''' (Space-bumblebee)

==Fiction==
{{charstub}}

===''Prime Directives'' prequel comic===

Bumblebee commanded the Autobot forces at [[Tyger Pax]] attempting to hold the Decepticons off while the [[All Spark]] was launched off-planet. He succeeded, but Megatron crushed his voice box, and he lost his ability to speak in the process. [[Ratchet (Movie)|Ratchet]] has been having trouble fixing it ever since. Later he was the first to track the All Spark to Earth, where he learned to express his emotions by tuning in appropriately emotive music on his car radio. Awww...

===''Transformers: Beginnings''===
:''Voice actor:'' [[Mark Ryan]]

===''Ghosts of Yesterday'' prequel novel===

In-between Tyger Pax and his arrival on Earth Bumblebee and the rest of the [[Ark (Movie)|Ark]] crew encountered some humans in deep space and got their first clues to where Megatron and the All Spark rest. {{Storylink|Transformers: Ghosts of Yesterday}}

===''Transformers'' (2007) film===
:''Voice actor:'' [[Mark Ryan]]

[[Image:Movie_BoliviasFinestQualityUsedCars_2.jpg|thumb|left|200px|The [[Bumblebee (G1)|old]] old and the new old.]]

Bumblebee is [[Sam Witwicky]]'s first car. Sam's father promised his son a car if Sam paid half of the money and achieved three 'A's in school. After doing so with the help of his genealogy project, [[Ronald Witwicky|his father]] and Sam drove to the [[Bolivia's Finest Quality Used Cars and Petting Zoo|car lot with the exceedingly long name]]. Following them to the lot, Bumblebee quietly placed himself among the other cars. To prevent Sam from having to choose another car, he used a high-frequency soundwave to blow out the windows of every other car in the lot, leaving [[Bobby Bolivia|Bobby]] with no choice but to sell Bumblebee to the Witwickys.

[[Image:Movie_Bumblebee_transformation1.jpg|thumb|right|200px|A Transforming car? Thats just crazy!]]

The next day Sam and his friend [[Miles Lancaster|Miles]] drove Bumblebee down to the lake in a misguided attempt to impress the popular girls at a party. Observing the exchange of thinly-veiled insults between Sam and the football jocks, Bumblebee decided to help out Sam when he noticed [[Mikaela Banes]] walking home after a falling out with her now ex-boyfriend. Playing 'Drive' on his radio, Sam was inspired to kick Miles out and drive Mikaela home. As the two awkwardly chatted, Bumblebee suddenly turned off his engine as they neared a romantic spot overlooking the city, playing 'Sexual Healing' and 'I Feel Good'. However Sam, not knowing his car has a mind of its own, misinterpreted this as a break-down. Mikaela attempted to fix Bumblebee with her mechanical know-how, only to leave after Sam asked her why she tolerated jerks like her ex-boyfriend. Trying to help as much as he could, Bumblebee allowed Sam to start up his engine as she walked away, this time playing 'Baby Come Back'. Arriving at Mikaela's house, Sam advanced a step towards her by stating that he doesn't believe her to be shallow at all and making a reference that there's -quote- "'More than meets the eye' with you". After she leaves, Sam quietly said to himself "I love my car."

Later that night, Bumblebee drove off by himself with Sam in hot pursuit, believing it to be a car theft. Unwittingly leading his human owner to a junkyard, Bumblebee transformed and activated his communications beacon requesting assistance from Optimus Prime and the other Autobots. Unknown to him, Sam had seen his robot form and ran off, now being being pursued by two dogs guarding the junkyard. Bumblebee came to Sam's aid, scaring off the dogs but had to escape when the police (that Sam had previously summoned when Bumblebee drove away from his house) arrived to arrest Sam for breaking-in the junkyard.

[[Image:Movie_Bumblebee_factorychase.jpg|thumb|left|200px|Need for speed!]]

The next day Bumblebee drove back to the Witwicky house sometime after Sam had been bailed out by his dad. Frightened and confused, Sam rode away from what he dubbed '[[Unicron|Satan]]'s Camaro', ending up in the city and encountering Mikaela in front of a ''Burger King''. Bumblebee followed Sam towards an industrial area, not realizing that the Decepticon [[Barricade (Movie)|Barricade]] was stalking the boy, intent on finding Captain Witwicky's glasses. Sam ran away from the attacking Decepticon and literally ran into Mikaela after she had followed him. As Barricade bore down on the pair, Bumblebee suddenly appeared, knocking the Decepticon off his feet, then drove the humans away as Barricade gave chase.

[[Image:Movie_Bumblebee_winner.jpg|left|thumb|[[Public service announcement|And you'll show them how mean YOU can be!]]]]

Racing through dilapidated factories and warehouses, Bumblebee eventually arrived at a deserted chemical plant on the outskirts of town, where he waited until Barricade's back was turned before dumping Sam and Mikaela out of his passenger side door then transforming into robot mode to protect his friends. Barricade transformed and attacked, hitting Bumblebee with his tire spikes and knocking the Autobot into a chemical tank. In retaliation, Bumblebee grabbed Barricade and threw him into a electrical substation, seriously damaging the Decepticon and putting him into stasis lock. After Sam and Mikaela took care of [[Frenzy (Movie)|Frenzy]], Bumblebee introduced himself to them entirely through the use of his radio, explaining that it was the only way he could communicate, that he was an alien and that Sam witnessed him calling to his friends the previous night. Transforming back into vehicle mode, Bumblebee invited his friends to enter (after a moment's hesitation they did) and began to drive them to nearby [[Griffith Observatory]].

On the way, Mikaela (who had refused to sit in the driver's seat as Bumblebee was driving), rhetorically asked Sam that if Bumblebee was a super-advanced robot, why did he turn into a piece of crap Camaro? Mildly insulted, Bumblebee stopped in the middle of a packed tunnel and forced the humans out, then drove away. As Sam lamented the fact that "four thousand dollars just drove away", Bumblebee passed another car and scanned it, driving back to the pair as a sleek and shiny 2009 Camaro. Amazed and impressed, Sam and Mikaela got back in and Bumblebee continued their journey to the observatory. Arriving, the humans observed as the other Autobots entered the Earth's atmosphere and crashed landed in various parts of the city.

[[Image:Movie_Bumblebee_Mikaela_observatory.jpg|right|thumb|Still think I'm a piece of crap, lady?]]

Bumblebee then took his friends to a secluded alleyway where Sam and Mikaela meet the Autobots. Introducing themselves, Sam learned that Bumblebee was his guardian and that the Autobot's vocal processors were damaged in battle, Ratchet was still working on them as he fired a regenerative plasma beam [http://transformerslive.blogspot.com/2007/07/kurtzman-and-orci-post-move-q.html] at the damaged area. Optimus Prime explained that their mission was to find the All Spark, and that Sam Witwicky was the key due to his grandfather discovering Megatron on his arctic voyage.

[[Image:Movie_BumblebeeCC_guardian.jpg|left|thumb|I may be your guardian, but I will not carry you through a crowd to the music of Whitney Houston.]]

Arriving at the Witwicky residence, Bumblebee attempted to convince his comrades to remain out of sight while Sam was talking to his father. When Sam and Mikaela were captured by [[Sector Seven]], Bumblebee helped rescue them. The interrogation of [[Reggie Simmons|Agent Simmons]] went nowhere, however, and Bumblebee became so annoyed with his attitude that he released lubricant onto the agent. Soon, Sector Seven reinforcements arrived, intent on recapturing the kids and any 'N.B.E.s' they could get their hands on. Optimus Prime tried to protect Sam and Mikaela as they hid under a bridge, but both almost fell to their deaths when they slipped. Bumblebee raced forward, transforming and catching them in mid-air. Unfortunately, this also gave Sector Seven a clear and obvious target for them to attack. Firing harpoon cables from helicopters, the clandestine human organization dragged Bumblebee to the ground as their soldiers began to freeze the helpless Autobot who reached out to Sam. The boy broke free from an agent's grip, pushing the soldiers away until he was tackled by several agents and taken away. Though [[Jazz (Movie)|Jazz]] objected to allowing Sector Seven to leave with their friend, Optimus Prime ordered his men to stand down, as there was no way to save them without incurring human casualties.

[[Image:Movie_Allspark_reformatting.jpg|right|thumb|Also available in pocket size.]]

Taken to [[Hoover Dam]], Bumblebee was continually doused with cryoblasts to keep him docile and inert as Sector Seven performed experiments on him. Sam and Mikaela (with some armed persuasion from [[William Lennox|Captain Lennox]]) convinced Sector Seven to release Bumblebee. Upon his release, Bumblebee converted to battle mode and almost lashed out at his human oppressors until Sam calmed him down, informing him of the presence of the All Spark and Megatron in the facility, and that the Decepticons were coming for both. Following the humans to the All Spark's chamber, Bumblebee hesitantly reached out to the life source of his people and reformatted it, shrinking the cube until it was the size that the humans could manipulate. Bumblebee and a military escort fled to [[Mission City]], meeting the Autobots en route.

[[Image:Movie_Bumblebee_giveAllSpark.jpg|thumb|left|Yay! Lego!]]

After arriving at the city, [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] soon appeared. Recognizing the Decepticon, [[Ironhide (Movie)|Ironhide]] and Bumblebee lifted up an abandoned truck in order to shield the humans from any collateral Starscream's attack would inevitably bring. One of the Decepticon's missiles struck the truck, sending both Autobots flying, with Bumblebee landing in a store front. Crawling out, Sam discovered to his horror that Bumblebee's legs had broken off and he was barely functional. Soon, the other Decepticons arrived, led by Megatron and the remaining Autobots were engaged. Mikaela and Sam hoisted Bumblebee onto a abandoned tow truck, but refused to leave Bumblebee's side. The Autobot silently handed his friend the All Spark, trusting the fate of his people into the boy's hands and urged him to run while he still could. As Sam ran away Mikaela drove Bumblebee away from the battle to relative safety.

[[Image:Bumblebee armed.JPG|right|150px|thumb|Small and weak my ass.]]

However, she was soon overcome with guilt for leaving Sam and the battle. She looked at Bumblebee, who gave a nod of agreement, then turned the truck around and headed back in. As Mikaela drove down the street in reverse, Bumblebee activated his weapon systems, then fired his [[plasma cannon]] and missiles at [[Brawl (Movie)|Devastator]], who was pinning down Captain Lennox and the rest of the combined Ranger/Sector Seven soldiers. His contribution was the deciding factor, confusing Devastator enough for the soldiers to counter attack, and the Decepticon was finally destroyed when Bumblebee's final cannon blast pierced his spark. Bumblebee was rather pleased with himself, and Mikaela complimented his shooting.

After the destruction of Megatron and the All Spark, Bumblebee (who had regained his voice [http://transformerslive.blogspot.com/2007/07/kurtzman-and-orci-post-move-q.html]) requested permission to remain with Sam, to which the young man agreed. After his legs were repaired, he allowed Sam and Mikaela to make out on top of him, as the other Autobots watched.

It was the best day ever. Well, maybe not for Jazz.

===Games===
====''Transformers: The Game''====

voice actor: [[Mark Ryan]]

====''Transformers: Autobots''====

voice actor: [[Mark Ryan]]

Bumblebee arrives in Tranquility to meet up with [[Create-A-Bot (Autobot)|Create-A-Bot]], and after a short discussion created from radio sound clips, instructs Create-a-Bot to scan a number of vehicles, the last of which is a Decepticon. After a short battle, Bumblebee then uses Create-a-Bot's mad h4x0r skills to break into the internet and find the location of [[Archibald Witwicky]]'s glasses, which turn out to be conveniently in Tranquility. Going to retrieve them, Bumblebee finds [[Barricade (Movie)|Barricade]] at the house, who then blows up a car and runs, blaming the explosion on the yellow car now chasing him down the highway. Meeting on the bridge, they fight. Once Bumblebee wins, Barricade once again runs.

Later, Bumblebee receives a mission to destroy several [[Sector Seven]] turrets designed to shoot down the reported [[N.B.E.]]s seen around the city. Afterward, he'll serve as a distraction, driving to various markers to fight off the police while the other Autobots do their thing. Once completed, he gets captured by S7 forces and taken to the Hoover Dam, where he must be rescued by the others. Once free of his restraints, he searches the base for the AllSpark, finding it in the deepest part of the dam. Once discovered, the AllSpark turns the computers into mechanical scorpions... to defend itself. From the good guys. Once retrieved, Bumblebee has to escape in under 30 seconds to avoid getting locked in. After a quick getaway with Create-a-Bot providing cover fire, they meet with Optimus. After another quick gun-and-cover mission, Blackout and Barricade are waiting for a two-on-two battle, where Prime must keep not just himself alive, but also Bumblebee.

Finally, Bumblebee's last mission once again takes place in Tranquility. AllSpark in hand, he must run to meet up with the Autobots, avoiding as many Decepticons as possible, with a time limit. Blackout is gunning for him the entire time, and lots of Decepticons are in the way. Once there, Create-a-Bot will need to keep Bumblebee from being [[Blastification|blast]]ed into [[slag (slang)|slag]] as they race to meet up with Optimus.

====''Transformers: Decepticons''====

After sending troops to slow down Barricade and the Decepticon [[Create-A-Bot (Decepticon)|Create-A-Bot]], Bumblebee shows up in person to take care of business himself, serving as little more than a distraction. After running away, Bumblebee later acquires the AllSpark, transporting it across Tranquility while [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] gave chase. Stopping in the suburbs, Starscream pounded his face to custard and pried the AllSpark from his cold, nonfunctioning fingers.
{{-}}

==Toys==

===Transformers (2007)===
*'''Bumblebee''' (Deluxe, 2007)
:''Japanese ID number:'' '''MA-03'''

[[Image:Bumblebeemovietoydeluxe67.jpg|left|thumb|These used cars are fully loaded!]]

: The first version of Movie Bumblebee transforms into a yellow [[wikipedia:Second-generation_Chevrolet_Camaro|1976 Chevrolet Camaro]] with a quite reasonable level of sculpted detail. In contrast to the other Deluxe-class car Transformers in the Movie toyline, he does not have clear windows, instead opting for opaque yellow plastic with painted metallic blue.

[[Image:Movie_Deluxe_1974_Bumblebee_JPtoy.jpg|right|thumb|150px|Never seen so much translucent plastic in all my life.]]

: In robot mode, Bumblebee does not quite accurately replicate his movie appearance due to his chest remaining mostly unchanged and the sparse yellow paint applications render his limbs largely colorless. Due to the extensive use of ball joints, he features an excellent range of articulation. Unusually for an all-new sculpt in the Movie toyline, he features traditional-styled fists with 5mm holes. Bumblebee is armed with two shoulder-mounted spring-loaded missile launchers (inspired by the shoulder-mounted missiles launchers he uses to fight Brawl/Devastator in the movie, even tough he is in his 08 Camaro mold at this point), which also double as hand-held weapons or can be mounted on ports on the undersides of his elbows. His legs and chest [[Automorph]] during transformation. Press the button or you'll break him. Seriously.

: Packaging photos and early [[prototype|test shots]] of Bumblebee featured transparent blue plastic windows and missile parts. However, the final Hasbro production toy has opaque yellow plastic. The Japanese [[TakaraTomy]] release of Bumblebee retains the transparent blue plastic parts.

*'''Bumblebee''' (Cyber Slammers, 2007)

[[Image:Bumblebeemoviecyberslammer.jpg|left|thumb|100px|A [[Battlecharger]] for the new millennium.]]

: Cyber Slammers Bumblebee is an amazingly cute 1976 Camaro that transforms into an amazingly cute Autobot buddy of human characters. 'Slam' his robot mode down into car mode and he rolls along, slowly transforming back up into robot mode.

: This toy was also made available during the 2007 holiday season as a freebie "Bonus Buy" packaged with Cyber Stomper [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] at Wal-Mart stores.

{{-}}
*'''Bumblebee vs. Barricade: First Encounter''' (Multi-pack, 2007)

[[Image:Bumblebee_Barricade_deluxeboxset.jpg|right|thumb|130px|"Go ahead, make my day!"]]

: This battle pack contains the 1976 Camaro deluxe-class Bumblebee and the deluxe-class [[Barricade (Movie)|Barricade]]/[[Frenzy (Movie)|Frenzy]] figures, based upon their confrontation as seen in the movie. The box features a diorama-style background from a movie scene, but toys themselves are unchanged from their original carded releases.

: The set originally retailed for only slightly less than buying the two individual toys. However, for a short while, it was about the only way to ''get'' Bumblebee in the first place, thanks to the [[Movie (toyline)#.22Drought.22|toy drought]] following the movie's record-smashing opening.

*'''Bumblebee''' (Legends, 2007)

[[Image:Bumblebeemovielegends.jpg|left|thumb|100px|It's 4 bucks. Whatcha gonna do?]]

: Legends Bumblebee transforms into a yellow 1976 Camaro. Being a highly simplified toy of a highly complex design, Legends-class Bumblebee does not replicate the appearance of the robot mode very well, and has very limited articulation, detail and paint application. On the other hand, he's pocket-sized and inexpensive, perfect for the younger set.

{{-}}
*'''Bumblebee''' (Cyber Stompin' Robots, 2007)
[[Image:Bumblebeemoviecyberstompin.jpg|right|thumb|100px|These boots were made for -- you know the rest.]]

: [[Cyber Stompin' Robots]] Bee is a large electronic action figure, featuring a rather cutified design. He's got electronic lights and sounds up the whazzoo, and fires missiles and a fist. He totally plays the original theme song.

: Later in the year, Wal-Mart stores sold this toy as a "Bonus Buy" item, which came with a free Cyber Slammer [[Barricade (Movie)|Barricade]] attached to the boxback.

{{-}}
*'''Bumblebee (Camaro Concept)''' (Deluxe, 2007)
:''Japanese ID number:'' '''MA-10'''

[[Image:Movie_Deluxe_2009_Bumblebee_toy.jpg|thumb|left|250px|How come my face looks so weird?]]

: The second Deluxe class Bumblebee toy transforms into the [[wikipedia:Fifth-generation_Chevrolet_Camaro|concept vehicle for the 2009 Chevrolet Camaro]]. Maintaining the high standard for car accuracy in the movie line, Bumblebee is very faithful to the real-life vehicle, featuring clear blue windows in contrast to the opaque windows seen in both his previous Deluxe class toy and the Ultimate Bumblebee toy.

: Bumblebee features two [[Automorph]]ing gimmicks during transformation: ''(a)'' swinging his hood down into robot mode position also moves his arms up and ''(b)'', swinging his feet down will move the rear fenders up and behind his calves, as well as swinging the rear windows to his inner calves in a spring-loaded action. Unusually, this version of Bumblebee is much more accurate to the CGI design than either the older-model deluxe OR the Ultimate figures, with the chest properly articulating in a fairly Movie-accurate manner. He's also slightly taller than most of the other Deluxe class figures.

: Bumblebee features a superb range of articulation, with ball joints in his shoulders, neck, torso, wrists and upper legs, with ratcheting and swivels making up the remaining joints. Instead of the rather inaccurate missile launchers from the 1976 Camaro toy, 09 Bumblebee comes with a mostly accurate version of his plasma cannon as it appears in the movie, but for added play value can Automorph into an energy blade by opening up the halves of the gun barrel and swinging them back. The cannon can be held in either of his hands.

: Care should be taken when removing the cannon from Bumblebee's hands, as excessive force can damage the wrist ball joint socket.

: Contrary to popular opinion, the yellow pieces on the back of Bumblebee's feet are ''not'' supposed to be heel spurs, nor have they been misassembled. They are supposed to fold up to emulate the detail found on the CGI design.

: This mold was also used to make "All Spark Power" [[Cliffjumper (Movie)|Cliffjumper]].
''Note:This figure is quite rare, however; K-mart has had it in stock.''

*'''Bumblebee''' (Robot Replicas, 2007)

[[Image:Movie_RobotReplica_Bumblebee.jpg|thumb|right|120px| [[Heli-pack]] not included]]

: As part of the [[Robot Replicas]] sub-line, this version of concept-Camaro Bumblebee is a non-transforming action figure that hews very close to the movie's CGI model. It features joints similar to the [[Revoltech]] toys, plus his right forearm can be replaced with his blaster-arm (or any other arm attachments from other Robot Replicas, which could lead to some fun Frankensteins). For some reason, he's closer to orange than his normal yellow.

{{-}}
*'''Plasma Punch Bumblebee''' (Fast Action Battler, 2007)
[[Image:Bumblebeemoviefab.jpg|left|thumb|150px|The hood becomes the chest? Well, that's new!]] [[Fast Action Battler|Fast Action Battlers]] Bumblebee transforms from concept-Camaro to robot with a considerably simpler transformation than the standard deluxe toy, intended for the slightly-younger set. As such, his hood does not collapse or deform into the multi-segmented piece seen in other toys. His main "gimmick" is a spring-loaded missile launcher in his right arm.

*'''Rally Rocket Bumblebee''' (Fast Action Battler, 2007)
:A [[redeco]] of FAB Bumblebee using the newer "stealth" deco (inverted colour scheme).

{{-}}
*'''Ultimate Bumblebee''' (Ultimate, 2007)

[[Image:Ultimate_Bumblebee_toy.jpg|right|250px|thumb|Ironically less accurate than the Deluxe-class toy.]]

: Similar in appearance to the second Deluxe class Bumblebee toy, albeit much larger and more complex, the 'Ultimate' version of Bumblebee also transforms into a concept vehicle of the 2009 Camaro. The toy features animatronic movement in robot mode (flapping wings, moving arms and a rotating head) and light-up eyes and headlights, activated by the movement or sounds made by the person playing with the toy, or by pressing his buttons, which also activate an obscene number of interactive electronic sound effects. His chest button yields various phrases and a new version of the ''Transformers'' theme tune, while a button on his side produces blaster noises, more speech, and musical samples, including four different ones from Devo's "Whip It." This button also causes the toy to raise its cannon-arm and automatically fire a missile. Playing with the toy by moving it will make him repeat various phrases and samples activated by other features, as well as crashing battle noises, but when he is left idle, more unique phrases will be uttered inquiring where everyone has gone, as well as radio snippets to the same effect, before the toy eventually deactivates. Pressing any button will bring him back online with a cheerful shout.

: Transforming the toy between modes is accompanied by the classic transformation noise, and if left unattended between modes, stalling engine noises, a car horn and a car alarm will be heard. Once in car mode, new electronics are unlocked, beginning with the sound of an engine starting up. The chest button now activates the car's horn, and rolling the figure along will create an accelerating noise that increases the faster the toy is moved. More unique musical snippets will play as the car rolls along; when the rolling stops, brake lights activate and the tires screech. Yet more sounds are produced when Bumblebee is rolled backwards, and the car mode also features different crashing battle noises to the robot mode.

: All of the toy's features can be turned off by a switch, and it has an additional "Try Me" mode which allows you to hear various sounds from the toy's various functions just by pressing the chest button.

: The toy is mistransformed in the package, and all promo photos of the figure made the same mistake, presenting the car hood as a solid block resting on Bumblebee's chest. In reality, it splits up into five separate pieces to fold and collapse into a more movie-like appearance.

: In the holiday season, Wal-Mart carried an exclusive "Bonus Buy" version of the toy, which had the Deluxe [[Brawl (Movie)|Brawl]] and [[Scorponok (Movie)|Scorponok]] toys added as freebies. Costco also carried an exclusive version, with the 3" [[Titanium Series]] version of Bumblebee packed in. However, it does not include the display stand.

*'''Bumblebee Scanning Ver.''' (EZ Collection, 2007)

: A Japanese-exclusive version of the Legends Bumblebee toy, "scanning version" Bumblebee uses transparent plastics for his yellow parts. He was available as a mail-order item from ''Hyper Hobby'' Magazine in September of 2007.

*'''Trans-Scan Bumblebee'''

: This version of Bumblebee transforms into a [[protoform]] and entry mode, and comes with clip on parts to create his earth Camaro mode.

{{Comingsoontoy}}

*'''Evolution of a Hero''' (Multi-pack, 2007)

[[Image:Movie_Bumblebee_Evolutionofahero.jpg|left|thumb|Hey, look, Concept Camaro, Now ''you'' are the piece o' crap.]]

: A Target-exclusive, this figure multi-pack contains an unchanged Deluxe class 1976 Bumblebee and an exclusive 'battle damaged' 2009 Camaro Concept Bumblebee. Even though the 2009 figure is supposed to represent Bumblebee's damaged state as he appeared during the final battle in the movie, oddly enough the "damage" paint decos do not appear to extend to his legs, restricting themselves to his upper torso and car roof/door parts.

{{-}}
*'''Allspark Legends''' (Multi-pack, 2007)

[[Image:Movie_Allspark_Legends_pack.jpg|thumb|right|120px| Everybody! Everybody!]]

: A Toys R Us exclusive, this six-pack of Legends class figures contains unmodified toys of [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]], [[Jazz (Movie)|Jazz]], Bumblebee, [[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]], [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] and [[Barricade (Movie)|Barricade]].

{{-}}
*'''Bumblebee''' (Cyber Slammer, 2007)

[[Image:Movie_Bumblebee_CamaroConcept_CyberSlammer.jpg|thumb|left|150px|And so, Bumblebee rejoins the [[Throttlebot]]s.]]

:Bumblebee, like other [[Cyber Slammers]], has motorized action. When you push down on the car, it zooms forward and slowly pops into robot mode! Sure to please the toddler you brought with you to the PG-13 movie. Like most Cyber Slammers, Bumblebee manages to cram most of his vehicle mode's major details into a compact, super-deformed version of that mode.

: This toy was later redecoed into [[Cliffjumper (Movie)|Cliffjumper]].

{{-}}

*'''Towed to Safety''' (Multi-pack, 2007)

[[Image:Movie_TowedtoSafety_toys.jpg|thumb|right|150px|Why [[Hasbro|the company]] sold '76 instead of '08 with Longarm?]]

: This set features an unaltered Deluxe class [[Longarm (Movie)|Longarm]] figure and a Deluxe class 1976 Camaro Bumblebee figure. The window box features a diorama background of the battle in [[Mission City]] (basically the same packaging inner tray from the "Bumblebee vs. Barricade: First Encounter" pack.

:It's possible that this set might be exclusive to Europe.

{{-}}

*'''Capture of Bumblebee''' (Screen Battles, 2007)
:''Japanese ID number:'' '''SB-04'''

[[Image:Movie_ScreenBattles_CaptureofBB.jpg|thumb|left|250px|Well, maybe your odds just went up.]]

: This ''Screen Battles'' pack comes a [[redeco]]ed Camaro Concept Deluxe class Bumblebee featuring a more accurate gray color scheme for his robot mode parts and a silver painted face and toes. The pack also comes with non-posable figurines of [[Sector Seven]] agent [[Reggie Simmons]] and two Sector Seven soldiers; one carrying a cryo-freezing cannon and one carrying a grenade launcher.

: This set comes in a special window box featuring a diorama background of the scene where Bumblebee is captured by Sector Seven forces.

{{Comingsoontoy}}
{{-}}

*'''Final Stand''' (Screen Battles, 2007)
:''Japanese ID number:'' '''SB-02'''

[[Image:Movie_ScreenBattles_FinalStand1.jpg|thumb|right|250px|"''I'll shoot, you drive!''"]]

: This ''Screen Battles'' pack comes with an altered [[Longarm (Movie)|Longarm]] toy and a non-transforming battle-damaged posable Bumblebee figure similar to the ''Robot Replicas'' toy. This set comes in a special window box featuring a diorama background of the battle in Mission City.

{{Comingsoontoy}}
{{-}}

*'''Stealth Bumblebee''' (Deluxe, 2008)

: Deluxe '09 Bumblebee with an inverted colour scheme (black with yellow stripes), and a new head mould featuring Bumblebee's 'battle mask'.

{{Comingsoontoy}}

====''Transformers'' Premium====
*'''Bumblebee''' (Deluxe, 2008)

{{Comingsoontoy}}

===Titanium Series===
*'''Bumblebee''' (Robot Masters, 2007)

[[Image:Bumblebeemoviets3.jpg|right|thumb|80px|Special feature: Can't talk, just like the real Bumblebee!]]

: This Bumblebee is a three-inch tall painted mini-statue of his 1976 Camaro bodyform. He features die-cast in his torso and thighs, and he has swivel-joints at the shoulders, head and waist. Oh, and he comes with a Movie-style Autobot logo base to stand on.

: This item was also packed in with Ultimate Bumblebee as a Costco-exclusive set.
{{-}}
===Micro IR Transformers Cars===
*'''Bumblebee''' (2007)

[[Image:Movie_Bumblebee_MircroIR.jpg|left|thumb|100px|Drives ''and'' shoots!]]

: Made by [[Radio Shack]] under license from [[Hasbro]] and [[Dreamworks]]. Three-function infrared remote, in Bumblebee's signature colors, gives you control of the car with forward and reverse turn movement. More than just a car styled after the Movie character, the car also transforms to robot mode. The top of the gun-shaped IR remote's barrel serves as a display stand.

{{-}}

==Merchandise==
===Transformers (2007)===
*'''Beatmix Bumblebee''' (2007)

: ''Beatmix'' Bumblebee is a device that hooks up to a music device, similarly to an ''iDog''. Like the aforementioned product, ''Beatmix'' Bumblebee reacts to the music being played (outputted via a speaker within him). With a touch, he can also sample the owner's music tracks and replays them with sound effects from the movie. His arms are posable, but Bumblebee cannot transform.
{{-}}
*'''Bumblebee AllSpark Blaster''' (2008)

[[Image:Movie_Bumblebee_Allsparkblaster.jpg|thumb|right|150px|]]
{{comingsoontoy}}
{{-}}

*'''Transformers car air freshener''' (2007)

: A faithful replica of the "Bee-Otch" air freshener dangling from Bumblebee's rearview mirror, with cinnamon scent. It was given out by the handful at [[BotCon 2007]]. Supposedly it was also available at retail, but no reliable sightings have been reported.

{{-}}
*'''Bumblebee''' (2007)

[[Image:Unleashed_movie_bumblebee.jpg|thumb|left|150px|What are YOU lookin at?]]
{{-}}
*'''Bumblebee vs. Barricade''' (2007)

*'''Armored Bumblebee vs. Starscream''' (2007)
[[Image:Rhstarbee.jpg|right|thumb|150px|Bee's gonna pull it away when Screamer runs up to kick it.]]

{{-}}
*'''XMODS® Evolution Transformers Bumblebee''' (2007)
:''Model Number'': '''60-186'''

[[Image:Movie_Bumblebee_XMODS.jpg|left|thumb|120px|Transforms from vehicle mode to modified vehicle!]]

[[Image:Movie_Bumblebee_XMODS_Weapons.jpg|right|thumb|120px|Bumblebee is now more battle ready than Ironhide...I think.]]

: Bumblebee, in his Camaro Concept form, is one of the first Transformers characters to be licensed by [[Radio Shack]] from [[Hasbro]] and [[Dreamworks]] for their XMODS Evolution line of radio control cars. "The maximum in modification", Bumblebee is a base kit that can be upgraded with a '''Evolution Weapons and Light Kit for Bumblebee''' (''Model Number'': '''60-191''') which adds two racks of missiles to his doors, his plasma cannon onto the hood as well as LED red tail and white headlights. Bumblebee is also compatable with any of the optional motor upgrades, body kits, steering and suspension upgrades, and more available for the brand.

*'''ZipZaps® Micro RC Starter Kit 1.0 Transformers® Bumblebee™''' (2007)
:''Model Number'': '''60-180'''

[[Image:Movie_Bumblebee_ZipZaps.jpg|left|thumb|150px|Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]]

: Bumblebee is also one of the first Transformers characters licensed by Radio Shack for their ZipZaps line of pocket-size radio control cars. As a ZipZap, Bumblebee can be customized, trimmed, and tuned with any other accessories available for the brand. He has working headlights and requires four "AAA" batteries for the charger.

*'''TRANSFORMERS Chess Set''' (2007)
: Two identical bronze-colored plastic statues of Bumblebee serve as the [[Chess]] set's Autobot-side knights.
{{-}}

==Trivia==
* According to an article on [http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=121138?imw=Y#12 Edmunds.com], the filmmakers wanted Bumblebee's original Earth form to be the 1976 iteration of the Camaro because it was the worst Camaro possible that also had chrome bumpers.

* The same article indicates that the 1976 Camaros used in the film were all purchased via online auction for under $6000 each, one for less than $2000. That one didn't run.

* One of the 1976 Camaros was sold on eBay, the bidding ended on July 18, 2007. The final price was $40,100.01.

* The Bumblebee computer generated model consisted of 7608 individual parts, 1,511,727 polygons, 19,722 rig nodes, and 8094 texture maps. The volume of all the pieces came to 1069.01 cubic feet.<ref>Robertson, Barbara (2007). Heavy Metal. ''Computer Graphics, 30''(7), 12-17.</ref>

* Bumblebee stands approximately 16 feet tall, according to the [[Transformers: The Game|official game]] strategy guide

* Bumblebee's character animation is based on the performance of [[wikipedia:Michael J. Fox|Michael J. Fox]] in the ''[[wikipedia:Back to the Future|Back to the Future]]'' movies. <ref>From ''Cinefex'' magazine, issue number 111, published October 2007.</ref>
{{-}}

==References==

<references />

{{-}}

[[Category: Autobots]]
[[Category: Exclusives]]
[[Category: Legends of Cybertron]]
[[Category: Movie characters]]
[[Category: Robot Heroes]]
[[Category: Titanium Series]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Ultra Magnus (Animated)

2007-12-29T13:00:32Z

Sofaman: /* Animated */

{{disambig3|Ultra Magnus}}

:''Ultra Magnus is an [[Autobot]] in the [[Transformers Animated]] [[continuity family]].''

[[Image:Animated_UltraMagnus.JPG|right|300px|thumb|I can deal with that.]]
'''Ultra Magnus''' is [[Optimus Prime (Animated)|Optimus Prime's]] superior officer who apparently isn't very nice to him. He is also the [[Supreme Commander]] of the Autobots and the leader of the [[Cybertron Elite Guard]]. His earth alt-mode is a multi-wheeled missle platform.

Strangely, he can deal with that.

==Fiction==
===Animated===
:''Voice actor: [[Jeff Bennett]] (US), ? (Japan)''
Though nearly denied by [[Sentinel Prime (Animated)|Sentinel Prime]], Optimus Prime gets patched through to Ultra Magnus to report on the discovery of the [[All Spark (Animated)|All Spark]]. Magnus still doesn't believe the Decepticons will pose much of a threat, but agrees to dispatch some ships to escort the ''Ark''. He warns Prime not to pull any heroics, as it's not in his programming.

This of course all goes out the window once it's discovered that the Decepticons in pursuit are in [[Megatron (Animated)|Megatron]]'s flagship. {{storylink|Transform and Roll Out!}}

==Toys==
Surprisingly, his toy will ''not'' be an [[Optimus Prime (Animated)|Optimus Prime]] redeco. The fandom rejoiced (and hopefully will not complain).

==External links==

{{charstub}}

[[Category:Animated characters]]
[[Category:Autobot leaders]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Ultra Magnus (Animated)

2007-12-29T12:59:14Z

Sofaman: /* Animated */

{{disambig3|Ultra Magnus}}

:''Ultra Magnus is an [[Autobot]] in the [[Transformers Animated]] [[continuity family]].''

[[Image:Animated_UltraMagnus.JPG|right|300px|thumb|I can deal with that.]]
'''Ultra Magnus''' is [[Optimus Prime (Animated)|Optimus Prime's]] superior officer who apparently isn't very nice to him. He is also the [[Supreme Commander]] of the Autobots and the leader of the [[Cybertron Elite Guard]]. His earth alt-mode is a multi-wheeled missle platform.

Strangely, he can deal with that.

==Fiction==
===Animated===
:''Voice actor: [[Jeff Bennett]] (US), ? (Japan)''
Though nearly denied by [[Sentinel Prime (Animated)]], Optimus Prime gets patched through to Ultra Magnus to report on the discovery of the [[All Spark (Animated)|All Spark]]. Magnus still doesn't believe the Decepticons will pose much of a threat, but agrees to dispatch some ships to escort the ''Ark''. He warns Prime not to pull any heroics, as it's not in his programming.

This of course all goes out the window once it's discovered that the Decepticons in pursuit are in [[Megatron (Animated)|Megatron]]'s flagship. {{storylink|Transform and Roll Out!}}

==Toys==
Surprisingly, his toy will ''not'' be an [[Optimus Prime (Animated)|Optimus Prime]] redeco. The fandom rejoiced (and hopefully will not complain).

==External links==

{{charstub}}

[[Category:Animated characters]]
[[Category:Autobot leaders]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Grimlock (G1)

2007-12-01T11:48:27Z

Sofaman: /* Trivia */

{{disambig3|Grimlock}}

:''Me Grimlock [[Autobot]] in [[Generation 1]] and [[Maximal]] in [[Beast Wars]] portion of the Generation 1 [[continuity family]].''

[[Image:Grimlockg1.jpg|right|thumb|250px|Me Grimlock draw self-portrait.]]

Some Autobots wonder why '''Grimlock''' is even on their side. His disposition is much more suited to the [[Decepticons]]. After all, he values power and strength over wisdom and compassion, and furthermore, he doesn't really get along with most Autobots. When faced with a problem, his usual responses are to slice it with his [[energo-sword]], tear it to pieces with his bare hands, or outright eat it. He is more willing to accept casualties than most of the Autobot leadership, and doesn't seem particularly concerned about the [[Human|fleshie]]s either. These things, coupled with his dislike of [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]], have led to a defection or two on Grimlock's part. He'd have no problem offing the [[Prime (rank)|Autobot leader]] if he thought he could get away with it, though. However, despite their disagreements, Grimlock holds a respect for Prime's strength and leadership.

Grimlock is the leader of the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobot]]s, a small but powerful strike squad. Grimlock himself is extremely strong and durable, and is one of the few Transformers who can not only stand toe-to-toe with Optimus Prime and [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]], but actually give them a run for their money.

{{quote|Me Grimlock not nice dino. Me bash brains!|Grimlock on himself|''[[The Transformers: The Movie (1986)|TFTM]]''}}

:''('''Note''': Grimlock's intelligence-level differed greatly between the comic and cartoon, leading to vastly different portrayals. See the entries below for details.)''

:''French-Canadian name'': '''La Menace'''<br>
:''Italian name'': '''Tiran'''<br>
:''Preliminary name'': '''Tyrex'''
:''Hungarian name'': '''Mogorva''' -- '''Grimlock''' in one of The Movie dubs.

==Fiction==
===Marvel Comics continuity===
====Generation 1====
:''('''Note''': The comic Dinobots had average, functional intellects. Grimlock affected a caveman-esque speech pattern to mask his intelligence<ref>Grimlock possesses a brilliant mind but considers intellectuals weak. He chooses to talk dumb rather than be thought of as weak. ''Marvel UK #200 'Secrets of the Transformers' booklet.''</ref>, leaving his fellow Autobots to think he has a glitch in his speech processor. The other Dinobots speak normally. )

:''Events from UK-only stories are italicized.''

While the Autobots remained dormant inside [[Mount St. Hilary]], the [[Ark]] detected Cybertronian life. Dispatching a probe, the Ark learned that [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] had come to Earth and was wandering the [[Savage Land]]. The Ark used data gathered from the Savage Land to convert five of the dormant Autobots into the Dinobots. They traveled to fight Shockwave, but all combatants became trapped in a tar pit. {{storylink|The Last Stand}} The Dinobots were later freed by [[Ratchet]], and joined the Autobots from time to time, but they were usually seen wandering on their own under Grimlock's orders.

Grimlock was a powerful and arrogant warrior who believed he knew best. He ascended to the post of overall Autobot leader on several occasions, growing in the process and eventually, despite their original conflict, becoming Optimus's hand-picked lieutenant and likely successor. Early on, [[Blaster]] was a major thorn in his side, deserting his command. Later, he tended to fight with the straight-laced, logical [[Prowl]].
[[Image:Biggrim_me_king.jpg|left|thumb|250px|Me Grimlock no bozo, me king!]]
One of the many casualties in an [[Underbase]]-powered [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream's]] rampage, Grimlock was brought back on-line by [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]], using [[Pretender]] technology stolen from Megatron. {{storylink|All the Familiar Faces!}} While Grimlock, along with [[Jazz]] and [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]], handily defeated Megatron's minions, he was unable to save Ratchet when Megatron's base exploded. {{storylink|Skin Deep}}

Afterward, Grimlock, Jazz and Bumblebee briefly joined the Autobot resistance movement on Cybertron before attempting to return to Earth via [[Trans-Time Dimensional Portal|trans-time dimensional portal]]. However, [[Thunderwing (G1)|Thunderwing]], seeking to crush the resistance's momentum, sent ''the latest incarnation of'' the [[Mayhem Attack Squad]] to destroy the three Autobot Pretenders. Infiltrating [[Autobase]], the three Decepticons sabotaged the portal, teleporting all six Transformers (and the [[Micromaster]] [[Rescue Patrol]]) deep into the heart of Cybertron, where the Autobots discovered the resting place of their god, [[Primus]]. {{storylink|Yesterday's Heroes!}}

Grimlock at first thought it was all a Decepticon trick, and was [[Atechnogenesis|skeptical]] that the Transformers even had a god. When the [[Keeper]] appeared, Grimlock demanded the ancient Transformer "prove it" by telling them the story of the Transformers' origin. The Keeper's story (complete with holographic slide-show) was suitably convincing, but unfortunately gave the Mayhem Attack Squad time to sneak up on the Autobots, and another battle ensued. The outnumbered Decepticons were no match for Grimlock and company, but [[Bludgeon (G1)|Bludgeon's]] last-ditch shot ricocheted off the Dinobot's back, waking Primus. A few seconds too late, the Autobots in Autobase repaired the portal, sending the lost Transformers to Earth. Grimlock immediately demanded they find the Earth-based Autobots to warn them of [[Unicron]]. {{storylink|Primal Scream}}

After rejoining Optimus Prime's forces, Grimlock, Jazz and Bumblebee formed a team in the search for the lost [[Matrix of Leadership|Creation Matrix]]. Traveling to [[VsQs]], where Optimus Prime's funeral barge had crashed, the three began to search an abandoned science station for any clue as to the Matrix's whereabouts. While Bumblebee searched the computer logs, Grimlock went looking for the science team - only to discover they had all been killed. Before the Autobots could formulate a plan, Thunderwing attacked. Grimlock's first reaction was to attack, but all three could not defeat the Decepticon leader. Instead, they were "saved" by the [[Matrix Spawn]], which became Thunderwing's new target. The three Autobots searched the wrecked station independently and recovered the Matrix. Low on [[Energon]], the three attempted to return to their shuttle, but the moon's heavy gravity slowed them down, allowing Thunderwing to overtake them, defeating the three weakened Autobots and claiming the Matrix for his own. {{storylink|Dark Creation}}

After Thunderwing's defeat, the Autobots sent a shuttle to VsQs to rescue Grimlock and the others, who were low on Energon and on the verge of [[stasis lock]]. Grimlock was none to grateful for his rescue, instead berating himself for failing to destroy Thunderwing and guilty that he was alive while the other Dinobots were still deactivated. However, without Ratchet or the Matrix, the Autobots knew of no way to bring back their fallen. Grimlock sought Optimus' permission to travel to [[Hydrus Four]] and investigate the rumors of the substance [[Nucleon]]. When Optimus refused, Grimlock stole a shuttle and the bodies of the Dinobots and went anyway, which everyone really should have seen coming. {{storylink|Eye of the Storm!}}

Once on Hydrus Four, Grimlock sought out the medi-center on the island of Farooth, where the well of Nucleon was kept. Along the way, he encountered the substance's three guardians, zombie-like mechanoids who attempted to bar visitors from tapping the Nucleon. Two engaged him in combat, but Grimlock dispatched them easily. Unlike destroying Decepticons, he could take no pleasure in his victories, which seemed pointless. He began to question his motives - was he really trying to save the Dinobots, or just prove himself a better leader than Prime? By the time he reached the island of Farooth, Grimlock simply wanted the grim business done with.

At the well, Grimlock encountered the final guardian. The Hydrusian didn't want to fight, but instead warned him that Nucleon always came with unexpected side effects. To quell the doubts that had plagued him since his arrival, Grimlock decided to test the Nucleon on himself, plunging a hand into the well. Feeling a surge of power and no immediate side effects, Grimlock decided it had to be safe, and went to work reviving the other Dinobots, ignoring the Hydrusian's parting words, "Time will tell". {{storylink|The Price of Life!}}

With the Dinobots revived, Grimlock loaded up as much Nucleon as he could and returned to the Ark. {{storylink|...All This and Civil War 2}} The Dinobots found it empty (as Primus had teleported the Earth-bound Transformers back to Cybertron). Electing not to waste time looking for the others, Grimlock ordered [[Swoop (G1)|Swoop]] to set course for Cybertron while [[Sludge (G1)|Sludge]] and [[Slag (G1)|Slag]] pumped the Nucleon into the Ark's life-support pods. The Dinobots were unaware that the life-support pods also held Megatron, as Grimlock departed before Ratchet's rescue. {{storylink|The Void!}}

Grimlock was the first Transformer to begin feeling the Nucleon's effect. Before he even left Hydrus Four, he began suffering erratic joint locks. He tried to hide the symptoms as long as he could, but after Unicron's defeat they began to worsen, until his entire body seized up during a battle. [[Hi-Q]] came to his rescue, recognizing that the Nucleon was still transforming Grimlock's body. Hi-Q accelerated the process, as the Nucleon granted Grimlock a new, more powerful body, but at the cost of [[Action Master|his ability to transform]].{{storylink|Still Life!}}

'''(Note: The following three sections all split off from the end of the Generation 1 comic, but in three different, irreconcilable directions.)'''

====''Another Time and Place'' text story====
====Generation 2====
After the coming of the [[Last Autobot]], much of the Autobot army scattered. Grimlock took command of a small commando team, leading strikes against [[Cybertronian|Decepticon outposts]] across the galaxy. After encountering seventeen conquered worlds, cyberformed into "little Cybertrons", Grimlock realized the problem was greater than he had originally imagined, and contacts Optimus Prime. After comparing notes in an abandoned base, the Autobots were captured by [[Jhiaxus]]. While Optimus begins to despair after learning Jhiaxus' origins, Grimlock refuses to give up, bolstering the Autobot leader's spirits as they lead an escape from [[Twilight|Jhiaxus' flagship]]. {{storylink|War Without End!}}

Despite his loyalty to Autobot ways, Grimlock still chafed under Optimus' leadership. Disobeying his orders (which somehow still surprised Optimus), Grimlock led a raiding party against Jhiaxus, seeking to destroy the ''Twilight''. Unfortunately, the Dinobot failed to anticipated Jhiaxus' increased security measures, and the mission cost [[Red Alert (G1)|Red Alert]] and [[Mirage (G1)|Mirage]] their lives. Their deaths forced Grimlock to question his methods and his attitude toward Optimus Prime. He admitted that he envied Prime for the loyalty he inspired in the Autobots, and that this, not the leadership of the Autobots, was what he'd truly desired. Thus, no one was more surprised than Grimlock when Optimus Prime placed the Dinobot in command while he traveled back to Cybertron. {{storylink|Devices and Desires}}

Grimlock's command status proved invaluable when Optimus met Megatron on Earth alone, intending to form an alliance against Jhiaxus. Megatron beat Optimus half to death and he only lived because Grimlock disobeyed orders and lead an Autobot brigade to Earth. When Megatron finally agreed to the alliance, Grimlock showed a great dislike for having to work with him, as well as the insults Megatron threw his way.

[[Image:Biggrim.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Me Grimlock work hard!]]
Eventually both the Empire attacked Autobase on Earth, with Grimlock gunning down scores of them. With the Empire came the Swarm, and with both Optimus and Megatron out of contact, it fell to Grimlock to organise the Transformers in a desperate defensive action. His plans caused the Autobots to hold out just long enough - bar a few casualties like his comrade Slag - for Megatron to arrive with the Rheanimanium that ensured their survival.

''(In the convention story [[Alignment]], which ties up plot threads from Generation 2, Grimlock sacrifices himself in the final battle against the [[Liege Maximo]]. (Despite being written by Simon Furman, this story was not approved by Hasbro and produced for an unofficial convention so the canonicity of this all is debatable.)''

====Fun Publications ''Classics'' comics====
[[Image:Classics_Ultramagnus_Springer_Grimlock_comic.jpg|left|thumb|250px|Me Grimlock like to make self look smart by hanging around bots who no hold binoculars correctly.]]

He liked to call [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] "Little Prime". {{Storylink|Games of Deception}}

BWWWHHHAHAHAHAHAHA

{{-}}

===Animated continuity===
:''Voice Actor:'' [[Gregg Berger]] (US), [[Takurō Kitagawa]] (Japan)

''(Note: In the animated series, Grimlock was more dimwitted than in most other continuities. As the series progressed, he was portrayed increasingly as a comic relief character.)''

[[Image:Grimlockskywarp.jpg|right|thumb|Mmm. Me Grimlock think Skywarp taste like chicken.]]

Cartoon Grimlock, like all the cartoon Dinobots, has a stereotypical "caveman" type personality and intellect level. They originally decide to help the Autobots, for instance, because "them have face like this on chest..." Pre-movie this lack of intelligence is usually coupled together with their great power to make them dangerous wild cards; Post-movie, however, Grimlock and the Dinobots are generally played as just plain dumb for comic relief.

When mysterious tremors shook the [[Ark|Autobot base]], [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]]'s investigation revealed strange objects behind a rock wall. After removing the wall, the Autobots found a cave full of dinosaur bones. The Autobots decided the idea of dinosaurs was interesting and researched the prehistoric beasts. Wheeljack and [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]] asked Optimus Prime if they could build robot dinosaurs, and Prime agreed this was a good idea. Grimlock, [[Slag (G1)|Slag]], and [[Sludge (G1)|Sludge]] were built and unveiled to the Autobots, but the Dinobots were dimwitted and violent, and they attacked their makers. Grimlock blasted [[Teletraan I]] with his fire-breath, damaging it. Optimus Prime decreed that the Dinobots ''must be destroyed''. However, Wheeljack convinced him instead to lock them away, and the trio were herded back into the cave and buried alive.

Later, the Decepticons took over a hydroelectric plant, but when the Autobots arrived to stop them, the Autobots were defeated and captured. Wheeljack, Ratchet, and [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]], left behind at Autobot base to finish repairing Teletraan-I, decided to go against Optimus' orders and release the Dinobots, but not before upgrading their brains to be smarter and more obedient. After the Dinobots are reactivated, Wheeljack asks them to save their friends. Grimlock says he will obey... this time. They successfully attack the Decepticons and free the imprisoned Autobots. Optimus forgives Wheeljack, Ratchet, and Bumblebee for disobeying his orders and welcomes the victorious Dinobots back to the Autobots. {{storylink|S.O.S. Dinobots}}

After a meteor surging with unknown energies struck the Earth, Optimus ordered the three Dinobots to guard it. He was so pleased with the Dinobots he asked Ratchet and Wheeljack to build two more. Meanwhile, Megatron was frustrated at the Dinobots' success, and sent [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]] to probe them for potential weaknesses. Reading the Dinobots' minds, he discovered that Grimlock was arrogant and believed he would make a better leader than the weak Optimus Prime. Megatron decided to use this to his advantage, and approached them himself. He played to Grimlock's jealousy and agreed with him that the strongest should be leader. The Dinobots declared Optimus Prime their enemy.

[[Image:Grimlockapologize.jpg|left|thumb|After we stop shaking hands, me Grimlock am going to eat him!!!!]]

Realizing the meteorite was due to explode, Optimus left to warn the Dinobots, but they attacked him. Instead of destroying him completely, however, Grimlock carried him to the Decepticons, who had stolen the meteorite during the battle. Megatron was angry that Optimus Prime was not destroyed, and Starscream suggested that despite Grimlock's arrogance, inside he was still compassionate(or as compassionate as Grimlock can get). Grimlock didn't take this well, and blasted Starscream right in the chest. They were interrupted by the two new Dinobots, [[Snarl (G1)|Snarl]] and [[Swoop (G1)|Swoop]], whom Megatron ordered the original three Dinobots to attack. At the climax of the battle, the meteorite exploded, but Optimus Prime pushed Grimlock out of the way, saving him. Grimlock realized the error of his ways and the Dinobots forced the Decepticons into retreat. Grimlock apologized for his jealousy. {{storylink|War of the Dinobots}}

The Decepticons joined forces with [[Sub-Atlantica]] and staged a full-scale attack on [[Washington, D.C.]]. The Autobots were overwhelmed, forcing Wheeljack to call for the Dinobots' assistance. Grimlock expressed his frustration at being called whenever the Autobots were in over their heads. With their help, the Autobots were able to overturn the Decepticons' advance and plunge the city of Sub-Atlantica, burning, into the sea. {{storylink|Atlantis, Arise!}} This pattern of the Autobots' dependence on the Dinobots repeated when the artificial intelligence [[TORQ III]] turned machines against mankind. With every piece of help he and his troops gave, Grimlock was never slow to add a scathing remark about the inabilities of the Autobots. {{storylink|Day of the Machines}} That said, he was not unwilling to admit the failings of his own troops, either, and willingly took them to the time-displaced "Dinobot Island," where they trained in the wilderness {{storylink|Dinobot Island, Part 1}} and helped stop a Decepticon raid on the prehistoric paradise, with Grimlock inspiring the native [[Dinosaur]]s to help them fight the Decepticons. {{storylink|Dinobot Island, Part 2}}

[[Image:Grimlock01.JPG|right|thumb|200px|Me say YOU PREGNANT.]]

The final straw for Grimlock came when he and the Dinobots were injured in a Decepticon trap at an airfield. Enraged, Grimlock refused to take orders from Optimus Prime any more, and led the Dinobots away from the Ark. When the Autobots began to suffer from Cybertonium deficiency, Spike Witwicky and his girlfriend Carly attempted to persuade the Dinobots - who continued to function perfectly, as they had been built on Earth without Cybertonium - to steal some of the mineral from a Decepticon shipment coming in from Cybertron. Although Grimlock was willing to let the Autobots die and decided to crush the humans, he recognized the Cybertron connection to the Cybertonium. Instead of securing the element, Grimlock opted to lead the Dinobots to Cybertron itself, where they were captured by [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]]. {{storylink|Desertion of the Dinobots, Part 1}}. He altered the Dinobots' [[Circuits|memory circuits]] and put them to work in the Cybertonium mines, until Spike and Carly repaired them. Grimlock and Spike faked having an argument, compelling the guards to lower the energy fences to remove the troublesome humans -- only to find themselves obliterated by the Dinobots. Grimlock led the group back to Earth, where the Dinobots agreed to follow Prime's order again -- until such time as Grimlock didn't feel like it. {{storylink|Desertion of the Dinobots, Part 2}}

[[Image:Grimlock.jpg|left|thumb|250px|Me Grimlock upset name "[[T-Wrecks]]" already taken. <small>(Albeit possilby by me Grimlock.)</small>]]

In the year 2005, Grimlock and the other Dinobots were stationed on the Autobots' Moonbase 1, seemingly overseeing weapons production. When word arrived from Earth that Autobot City was suffering a massive Decepticon attack, they travelled to Earth with Optimus Prime, and were dispatched by the Autobot leader to take on Devastator. Though they attacked fearlessly, the giant combiner robot was too much for them, shrugging off their attacks and overwhelming them in short order.

After fleeing [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]]'s attack on [[Autobot City]], the Dinobots, along with [[Kup]] and [[Hot Rod]], crashed on [[Quintessa]], and were separated from the two Autobots. During their search, the Dinobots met [[Wheelie]]. Grimlock initially didn't like the rhyming little robot, but eventually grew quite fond of him, letting him ride his back. Eventually, the Dinobots managed to locate where Kup and Hot Rod were being held. The Dinobots entered the execution room with all the grace they could muster, and Grimlock immediately declared his desire to munch metal. After saving Hot Rod and Kup from the [[Sharkticon (G1)|Sharkticon]]s, a [[Quintesson]] judge ordered the Sharkticons to execute the Dinobots. Grimlock stompped his foot on the ground, and ordered the Sharkticons to execute the Quintessons. They complied with the Dinobot's order. Heading for [[Junkion (planet)|the planet of Junk]], Grimlock watched the Autobots and the [[Junkion]]s celebrate their new friendship. The party was ended when a Junkion [[kiss]]ed Grimlock, causing him to reassert his status as "king". Later, Grimlock did one of his greatest life-accomplishment by literally kicking the butt of [[Unicron|a deity]]. {{storylink|The Transformers: The Movie (1986)|TFTM}}

[[Image:GrimlockManga.jpg|right|200px|thumb|If he REALLY smart he know how stupid he look.]]

By the Earth year 2005, it seemed apparent that Grimlock had undergone some degree of a personality change, becoming more childish and petulant, rather than brutish and stubborn. Throughout 2006, he regularly participated in missions with his fellow Autobots rather than the other Dinobots, battling on the planets of [[Chaar]], Goo, Dredd and [[Eurhythma]]. He and [[Daniel Witwicky]] were transported to the sorcerous other-dimensional realm of Menonia, where Grimlock was duped into fighting on the side of the tyrannical [[Quintesson]] [[Mara-Al-Utha]] {{storylink|Madman's Paradise}}, and later, he helped to sniff out the "[[dinosaur transform static]]" that implicated [[Trypticon]] in the theft of world monuments {{storylink|Thief in the Night}}. Later in the year, when Decepticon leader [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]] had Cybertron infused with function-inverting anti-electrons, a dose of the particles gave Grimlock super-intelligence. During a mission to [[Unicron]]'s disembodied head, where the Autobots were outmatched by the new Decepticon [[Terrorcon (G1)|Terrorcons]], Grimlock used components of Unicron's head to construct the [[Technobot|Technobots]] to battle them. Combined as Computron, the Technobots felt they could not match the Terrorcons, until Grimlock transferred his super-intelligence into Computron, reverting to his old self and allowing the Technobots to claim victory. {{storylink|Grimlock's New Brain}}

Grimlock's greatest victory came when he and a large number of other Transformers with animal transformations were summoned to a world at the centre of the galaxy by the ex-assistant of the ancient genius, [[Primacron]], creator of Unicron. The assistant had assembled these "[[Primitive]]" Transformers in the hope that their simple instincts could defeat Primacron's newest creation, [[Tornedron]], but one by one they fell to him, with Grimlock apparently crushed under [[Trypticon]]. Grimlock survived, however, and followed Tornedron back to Primacron's lab. When Tornedron turned on his master, like his predecessor, Primacron's complicated plans and equations could not find a way to stop him; Grimlock, on the other hand, randomly flicked a switch which reversed Tornedron's energy polarity, undoing the damage he had done and dissipating. Dancing around over his successful saving of the universe, Grimlock decimated Primacron's lab, dubbing it the smartest thing he'd ever done. {{storylink|Call of the Primitives}}

====Season 5====
Grimlock piloted the shuttle bringing [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] to an important meeting<ref>The meeting was with [[Tommy Kennedy]] and its importance was debatable, but Prime was upset at being late.</ref>, and took a wrong turn, making Prime very late. Prime subsequently took him to have his brain circuits upgraded. <ref>From the 'Season 5' shell sequence retelling of TF:TM, part 4.</ref>

====The Headmasters====

In the year 2011, the Decepticons invaded Cybertron in full force. Grimlock was deployed by [[Wreck-Gar]] to fend off the invaders. He was seen fighting alongside his fellow Dinobots as well as the [[Throttlebot]]s against the invading Decepticons, however, they didn't fare too well against the Decepticon [[Headmaster]]s, as they were all quickly put to sleep by [[Mindwipe]]'s hypnosis attack.

===Transformers PD-Type===
[[Star Saber (G1)|Star Saber]] recruited Grimlock as backup for a duel with [[Deathsaurus (G1)|Deathsaurus]]. Grimlock became bored watching the two of them fight in the sky, but when Star Saber finally succeeded in knocking Deathsaurus to the ground, Grimlock ate his head while Star Saber looked on, pleased at the outcome of his clever plan.<ref>From the [[Transformer_PD_Type|TF-PD type]] comic [http://www.tfarchive.com/comics/japanese/superdeformed.php?dgallery_show=deformed/SDComicTrans06.jpg Me Strongest! Me Grimlock]</ref>

===''Binaltech''===
After the Dinobots were defeated and deactivated on [[Earth]] by a strange alien virus, Grimlock was rebuilt using [[Binaltech]] technology to save his life. He hates his new Ford Mustang form. No teeth to munch metal, ya see.

===Dreamwave comics continuity===
{{quote|Me Grimlock--badass!!|Grimlock on himself|[[The War Within, Part 5]]}}
[[Image:ScrollDinobots.jpg|left|200px|thumb|"Give me Grimlock purse!"]]

Grimlock, years ago, before the war, was part of a cage-fighting arena. He and [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] fought beside and against each other on numerous occasions. Starscream believed Grimlock was a natural born killer, but Grimlock really just carried alot of rage and anger and needed an outlet.

When the war began, Grimlock sided with the Decepticons. Then, after a while, he switched sides and went to the Autobots. Nobody is quite sure why or what happened. He eventually became leader of a squad including [[Ironhide (G1)|Ironhide]], Kup, and Wheeljack.

By the time [[Sentinel Prime]] is killed and a new Prime must be chosen, Grimlock calls a secret meeting: If new [[Prime (rank)|Prime]] isn't up to doing what has to be done, then they'll do it for him - and take the Prime out in the process.

Optimus Prime, having defeated a team of Decepticons by himself, still didn't settle Grimlock's nerves. Prime's decision to evacuate Cybertron did it; Grimlock had enough. He left and went to brood by himself.

Starscream and his Seekers dropped by while Grimlock was alone. Starscream baited Grimlock, telling him he was a Decepticon inside and just was in denial. He gave him a choice: go to Sector Zero-Six and help the Seekers take out the Autobot command post, or warn them about their arrival.

Grimlock, out of spite, instead evacuated the Autobots from the base and planted a bomb, and a message: "Me not like Optimus Prime or Autobots that much...but me like you and yours even less!"

While he was on his way back to Iacon to help with the defense, Prowl ordered him away, instead telling him to go find Optimus Prime. Grimlock decided that it was a good opportunity to give the new Prime a piece of his mind.

While he and the team went deep in Cybertron's core to find Prime, they found out about Megatron's plan; to win the war, and turn Cybertron into a mobile battlestation with which to conquer the universe. He split up the team - he would go find Optimus Prime, the rest of the team would shut down the transformation system for Cybertron.

To his surprise, Prime abruptly was standing next to him. Prime ordered Grimlock to help him find Megatron. Grimlock shoved his [[energo-sword]] into Prime's hands and gave clear instructions: if Megatron is the problem, then fix it.

When the crisis was over, Grimlock no longer questioned Optimus Prime. He knew that Prime had figured things out, and though he didn't execute Megatron, he wasn't going to spend his time in the war running away. {{storylink|The War Within}}

During the Dark Ages, Optimus Prime and Megatron were seemingly destroyed in a [[space bridge]] explosion, Grimlock broke off from the Autobots lead by Prowl and formed the [[Lightning Strike Coalition]]. Grimlock was targeted, along with [[Jetfire (G1)|Jetfire]], Blitzwing and [[Hot Spot (G1)|Hot Spot]] by the [[Fallen]], who wished to use their apparently unique [[Spark]]s to help in his revival of [[Primus]], which would allow Unicron to locate him. Sending [[Bludgeon (G1)|Bludgeon]], [[Mindwipe]] and [[Bugly]], they arranged for Grimlock to recieve a communication between Jetfire and Shockwave. Believing Jetfire was intending to defect, Grimlock headed for the meeting. However, when the [[Chaos Trinity]] arrived and captured Jetfire, Grimlock jumped out of the shadows and attacked. The Fallen had to watch his followers take a sound beating. After dispatching the mystics, Grimlock attempted to execute Jetfire. The Autobot scientist was saved only because the Fallen himself soon arrived. Grimlock being Grimlock, he launched himself at the Fallen, but was completely overwhelmed. He woke up later strapped to a table and had to listen to Jetfire trying to convince him to help them both escape. Grimlock broke free with ease, and was part of the multi faction army that attempted to halt the Fallen's plans. {{storylink|The War Within: The Dark Ages}}

Later, Grimlock served both as leader of the Dynobots and the right hand bot to Ultra Magnus, who had taken control in Optimus' absence and had managed to secure a truce with Shockwave. Grimlock was less then happy about this, partly because he didn't trust the Decepticons, and partly because he had no idea what to with himself in peace time. He never got to find out, as the truce was betrayed and Grimlock was apparently killed when he dove in front of a blast meant for Magnus. {{storylink|The War Within: The Age of Wrath}}

''Due to Dreamwave's the closure, the War Within series, and Grimlock's subsequent return never seen. It's safe to assume however it was intended that Grimlock would be restored to his former glory in the second half of the mini-series. Also, did you actually think Furman would kill off Grimlock?''

Millenia later, on Earth, Megatron captured the other four Dinobots, a fact which he used as leverage to get Grimlock to turn traitor and join the Decepticons after they were reactivated by [[Lazarus]]. It didn't last very long, though, as [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] soon showed up with his Triple Changers. Grimlock's true loyalty became obvious when he stopped Blitzwing from blowing off Optimus' head by grabbing his tank turret and bending it into a pretzel with one hand. After that, Shockwave Megatron off to Cybertron, prompting Grimlock to rejoin the Autobots in the Ark. When Optimus' group surrendered to Ultra Magnus, some of the autobots remained on Earth, Grimlock among them. He headed for the frozen north, and then freed the other Dinobots from Megatron's holding tank. Stealing a decepticon shuttle, the Dinobot's then headed for Cybertron, meaning to free Prime and his group. After a rough landing, they acquired some transportation from Octane and hurried to Iacon. There, Grimlock did his part by leading a massive Dinobot assault on Shockwave's complex, before breaking off to take care of the Decepticon leader himself. Blitzwing again got in his way however, and Grimlock was forced to battle both, a battle that was going his way until Ultra Magnus shot him in the face. Preceptor repaired him and Grimlock did his part for the rebellion by giving Hot Rod some back up. For a third and final time he fought Blitzwing, this time taking the Decepticon out with ease, grabbing him by the tank turret and throwing him into a Guardian. Leaving the main conflict, Grimlock followed Shockwave, Optimus and Ultra Magnus and ended up saving the Autobot pair, stating he'd hate the lose the chance to pay back the "stuffy traitor". As Prime thanked Primus, Grimlock said he should be thanking him. {{storylink|War and Peace}}

While the main group of Earth Autobots returned, the Dinobots remained on Cybertron to give Ultra Magnus some needed muscle.

===The Beast Within===
In a devastating battle with the Decepticons, Grimlock makes the decision to combine with the other Dinobots to form the "[[Beast]]". {{storylink|The Beast Within}}

===Beast Wars animated continuity===
====3H ''Reaching the Omega Point'' comics====
====IDW ''Beast Wars'' comics====
[[Image:Acvra.jpg|right|thumb|150px|Give starring role, Magmatron, or me Grimlock take it by force.]]

Grimlock was among the [[Axalon (BW)|Axalon]]'s protoforms when the ship crashed on Earth. When [[Razorbeast]] and [[Optimus Minor]] were attempting to "rescue" [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]] from [[Magmatron]], the Predacons detected a spark signature that was apparently off the scale, big and mad. Grimlock showed up and acted as the perfect distraction, making ''very'' short work of the Predacons (apparently he was in a very bad mood after waking up and took it out on the Preds). Magmatron offered Grimlock the chance to withdraw, and when the incredulous Grimlock refused, the Predacon general attacked. Magmatron narrowly arose as the victor by use of his triple beast modes. Grimlock was knocked out, but later helped to construct the [[Maximal]]'s new base. {{Storylink|The Gathering, Part 4}}

Later, when [[Prowl (Transmetal)|Prowl]] remarked they had work to do on Earth, with [[Ravage]]'s Predacon militia still a threat, [[Wolfang]] reminded him that they had Grimlock on their side. {{Storylink|The Ascending, Part 1}}. The bot in question was patrolling the jungle around the base at the time, and bumped into the three mech team of Manterror, Retrax and Snapper. He only noticed Manterror and Retrax however, as Snapper was being crushed under his right foot at the time. While Retrax rolled for his life, Manterror had to face Grimlock on his own, and lost his wings for his trouble. This little group turned out to be a distraction however, with the intent of luring the Maximals big gun away while Ravage led an all out strike on the base.

The former Dinobot wasn't about to beleft out in the cold however, and he returned to base, ready for ''the main course'' which consisted of crushing Spittor under his foot, and tearing Iguanus and half a dozen other predacons apart. Still, even with him and Torca working overtime, things might have gone poorly without Lio Convoy's arrival.

===IDW comics continuity===
Grimlock and the rest of the D'''y'''nobots were a close-knit group of hunters, suffering from neither low intelligence nor Grimlock's traditional speech impairment.

At the start of Megatron's rise to power the Dynobots turned out to an open casting call for Megatron's underground Gladatorial games. It turned out to be a recruitment drive for the Decepticon army. What they thought of that is unknown as Autobot security forces raided the party soon after.

After [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] destroyed a cache of Energon the Dynobots had been hoarding, causing them severe Energon burns and equally severe humiliation, they swore revenge. So, against orders from Optimus Prime, they followed Shockwave when he left Cybertron to stabilize "Ultra-Energon" deposits he had sent to other worlds as a precaution against the depletion of Cybertron's own Energon reserves.

When Shockwave reached his first destination - Earth, at the end of the last Ice Age - the Dynobots destroyed his ship, but Slag revealed that the high energon levels of the planet would put them in stasis lock, since they hadn't come prepared like Shockwave. Slag then came up with the idea that they should scan the local life forms and create alt-modes based on those animals, but with synthetic flesh coatings to protect against the high levels of energon radiation. Grimlock was completely against the idea, but since Slag couldn't come up with something better, he relented. However, he refused to take on the form of the weak mammalians that dominated the planet, demanding "Something with some...bite." Scanning fossil deposits, Slag found the remains of some extinct reptilian animals and brought up a holographic representation of one to see if Grimlock approved. What popped up was a Tyrannosaurus Rex, which Grimlock seemed to fall in love with the moment he saw it. The choice made, Grimlock took the Tyrannosaur as his altmode and had Slag find more dinosaurs as templates for the rest of the Dynobots.

On transporting down to the planet's surface to confront Shockwave, they gained an initial advantage, as Shockwave's logic was unable to comprehend the effort and risks they had taken for their revenge. However, when Shockwave recognized this weakness, shut down his logic processors and operated a "rage" program to enable him to operate on pure instinct, he shrugged off their attacks and beat them severely, ending the assault by burning off their organic coatings. Unable to accept another defeat, Grimlock transformed to robot mode and fought against his imminent [[stasis lock]] to no avail.

However, before leaving the Dynobots' ship, he had enabled a "dead man's switch" designed to take Shockwave with them if they were defeated. When he entered stasis lock, this failsafe activated, firing on a nearby dormant volcano and causing an eruption which buried Shockwave and the Dynobots under ash and lava.

However, in 2006, Shockwave was discovered by a team of human archeologists. Whether he, Grimlock or the rest of the Dynobots can/will be reactivated remains to be seen.

===Universe===

{{-}}

==Toys==
===Generation 1===
* '''Grimlock''' (Dinobot, 1985/1986/1991/1992)
: ''Japanese ID number:'' '''C-26'''

[[Image:Grimlockg185toy.jpg|left|thumb|150px|And the debate goes on...... "Me Grimlock am greatest warrior!" ::: "No! Me Grimlock am greatest warrior!"]]

: Grimlock's toy was originally part of [[Takara]]'s ''[[Diaclone]]'' [[Dinosaur Robo]] series. When [[Hasbro]] imported the toy in 1985 for the ''Transformers'' line, the blue crotch was changed to red and the Diaclone driver mini-figure was dropped.

:The original Grimlock changes from a robot into a robotic T-Rex and comes with a red [[energo-sword]], a black double-barreled rifle, and a rocket launcher with three silver rockets.

: Grimlock was later reissued in the European/Australian-exclusive "[[Classics (Euro)|Classics]]" series. In Japan, he and the other four Dinobots were offered as mail-away items during [[Operation Combination]]; Grimlock cost 2300 yen (his original retail price) and 2 [[robot points]].

* '''Grimlock''' ([[Classic Pretender]], 1989)
[[Image:Pretender_Grimlock_toy.jpg|right|thumb|130px|Me Grimlock look like Ed Asner?]]

: A simplified and slightly-modified version of Grimlock, he transforms into a robotic T-Rex whose tail becomes a handgun. He came with a large human [[Pretender]] shell with a rather knight-like armor theme, with a helmet and large cannon.

: His human shell looks a lot like [[Wikipedia:Ed Asner|Ed Asner]].
:''('''Note''': Pretender Classic Grimlock's fuction was Lieutenant Commander instead of Dinobot Commander.)''

* '''Grimlock''' ([[Legends (G1)|Legends]], 1989)
[[Image:GrimlockLegends_toy.jpg|left|thumb|130px|Me Grimlock say cut it out.]]

: A K-Mart [[exclusive]] in its Hasbro release, this version of Grimlock is simply the inner robot of his Classic Pretender form without the shell or its accessories, leaving him only his tail/gun. In Japan, he was only available in a boxed "Hero Set" with the other three Legends toys, but with a silver face rather than the Hasbro version's orange.

* '''Grimlock''' (Action Master, 1990)

[[Image:Grimlock action master.jpg|thumb|right|50px|Me Grimlock no longer able to transform.]]

: Part of the initial assortment of non-transforming [[Action Master]] figures, Grimlock's design combines his cartoon model with extra toy-based detailing. He came with the [[Anti-tank cannon]] "partner" machine which Grimlock could ride, or be unfolded to form a really ''big'' "long range mortar launcher."

{{-}}

===Generation 2===
* '''Grimlock''' (Dinobot, 1992)

: Grimlock's original toy was [[redeco]]ed for release in ''Generation 2'', this time lacking the missile launcher accessory. He was available in three different colors; the first --and rarest-- in his original silver (the easiest way to spot if this is a G2 or original is by the "Autobot" tampograph on his leg), then in a medium turquoise-blue, and finally (and most commonly) in a dark blue.

:''('''Note''': Grimlock outranked Optimus Prime in the G2 toyline! (Prime had a rank of 9.)''

===Beast Wars===
* '''Grimlock''' (Deluxe, 1997)

[[Image:BeastWarsgrimlock_toy.jpg|left|thumb|150px|[[Ben Yee]] think me Grimlock look like dalmatian... :(]]

: Beast Wars Grimlock is a [[redeco]] of [[Dinobot (BW)|Dinobot]] in gray and gold with black spots, transforming into a "raptor" of some variety. His tail becomes a sword and a rotate-blade. He was slightly [[retool]]ed to have space for an "energon chip" [[rubsign]]. Unfortunately, Grimlock suffers from [[Gold Plastic Syndrome]].

: This mold is also used by [[Dinobots (toyline)|Dinobots]] [[Grimlock (Dinobots)|Grimlock]], and was retooled to make [[Dinotron (BM)|Dinotron]], [[Hardhead (BW)|Hardhead]] and [[Thrustor (BW)|Thrustor]].

===Beast Machines===
:[[T-Wrecks]] may have been intended to be a new form for Grimlock, based on the references in his tech spec bio to his ''Beast Wars'' "Attack Specialist" function and other hints. However, T-Wrecks' appearances in the ''Universe: The Wreckers'' comics suggests he is a new, unrelated character.

===Alternators===
* '''Grimlock''' (2005)
:''Alternator ID number:'' '''9'''
:''Japanese ID number:'' '''BT-10'''
[[Image:AlternatorsGrimlock_toy.jpg|right|thumb|200px|Me Grimlock no longer munch metal, so me Grimlock burn rubber.]]

: ''[[Alternators]]'' Grimlock transforms into a silver 1:24 scale Ford Mustang with opening doors, hood, and trunk. His engine transforms into a double-barreled gun, and he also carries an orange sword which can attach to the underside of his vehicle mode. The toy is one of the most-complained-about Alternators toys, due to its notoriously finicky transformation (with many small steps that must be performed in exactly the right order) and to several pieces which have a tendency to pop off with relatively small amounts of force.

:This mold was remolded into ''Alternators'' [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]].

{{-}}

===Universe===
:The [[Grimlock (Energon)|Grimlock]] toy released in ''[[Energon (franchise)|Energon]]'' was originally created by Hasbro for release as a special new-mold addition for the ''Universe'' toyline and was intended to represent ''Generation 1'' Grimlock. However, it wasn't and it didn't.

===Classics===
*'''Grimlock''' (Deluxe, 2006)
[[Image:Grimlockclassicstoy.jpg|right|thumb|100px|Me Grimlock just come from ''Jurassic Park 4'' audition. Me ate all other actors.]]

: ''Classics'' Grimlock, a gray and gold ''Tyrannosaurus rex'', is a reimagined form of his original toy. His dinosaur mode's sculpt is based heavily upon [[TakaraTomy]]'s Zoids Genosaurer toy, although for Grimlock the Zoids Tyrannosaurus toy [[Wikipedia:Berserk Führer|Berserk Führer]] might have been more apropos. It features articulated jaws, some neck and arm movement, posable legs, a segmented, articulated tail, and is notably designed to run rather than drag (theories on the T-Rex having changed from "caveman adversary" to "Carl Lewis in lizard skin" since the G1 incarnation).

:There are several similarities between Grimlock's Classic toy and his Pretender Classic toy:
:* The T-Rex's arms are on the sides of the robot-mode legs.
:* In robot mode, his tail detaches to become a sword/whip, similar to his Pretender Classic toy.
:* His bayonet blaster bears a [[Media:Grimlock_gun_prt_clsc.JPG|similarity]] to his Pretender toy's.
:His bayonet blaster can be deployed in either mode and fires a clear red projectile. Both weapons can be stored on his back when not used. As with most ''Classics'' toys, Grimlock features a heat-sensitive [[rubsign]], placed on the left side of the tyrannosaurus torso/his left leg.

:A common complaint about the figure is the size of the peg being too small in relation to the peg-hole, making it impossible to lock the arms into place. In addition, the bayonet blaster has a hair-trigger.

:An unpainted ''Classics'' Grimlock was used at the [[BotCon 2007]] customization classes to create ''[[Timelines]]'' [[Overkill]].

:Classic Grimlock later comes with Classic Jetfire in a twin-pack set in 2007.

{{-}}

===Titanium Series===
*'''Grimlock''' (3" Robot Masters, 2006)
[[Image:Titanium_RM_Grimlock.jpg|right|thumb|150px|Me Grimlock say, boogie down!!]]

: ''Titanium'' Grimlock is a non-transforming, three inch die-cast metal figurine based on his toy and comic/cartoon model. He has very limited articulation, in his neck, waist and shoulders. Grimlock is posed squatting and/or dancing.

*'''Grimlock''' (6" Cybertron Heroes, 200?)

===Attacktix===
*'''Grimlock''' (Booster, 2007)
[[Image:Attacktix_Grimlock.jpg|left|thumb|150px|Me Grimlock can no move.]]

: '''Attacktix''' Grimlock is depicted in his ''Tyrannosarus'' mode, and has a sculpt based heavily upon his original G1 toy. Pressing down on his back will cause his head to extend and presumably hit whatever he's facing.

{{-}}

===MyClone===
*'''Grimlock''' (Takara, 2003)

{{-}}

===Robot Heroes===
*'''Grimlock Vs Shockwave''' (Two Pack, 2007)
[[Image:Robot_Hero_Grimlock.jpg|right|thumb|120px|Me Grimlock no cutie, me king!]]

Packed with [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] Grimlock is a detailed two-inch tall figurine with exaggerated, cartoony proportions. He is sculpted holding his sword in his left hand. He brings cuddly wuddly death.

{{-}}

==Trivia==
[[Image:Grimlock_Natural_History_Museum.JPG|thumb|right|150px|Me Grimlock BIG person, so they put my statue in Natural History Museum.]]
* In the original Diaclone commercial for Grimlock, it showed him spewing fire from his mouth. Guess why ''that'' was removed, huh?
* There is a Grimlock's toy placed in the showcase in the Dinosaur Section from [[Wikipedia:Natural History Museum|Natural History Museum]], London, United Kindom.
* Grimlock is generally regarded as Simon Furman's signature character.
* According to [[Gone But Not Forgotten|Marvel UK issue #107]]'s letters page Grimlock considers the 23rd of August 1986, his birthday. It's the date he took over the Transformers letters page. He also thinks he could take out Soundwave in a fight.
* Grimlock's fuction is '''Lieutenant Commander''' instead of Dinobot Commander on his Pretender Classic and Alternator toys. Lieutenant Commander is [[Sky Lynx (G1)|Sky Lynx]]'s rank. Deal with it, egobot.
* The Energon Grimlock toy was originally intended to be the original Generation 1 character, and was to be released in Universe. However, it was ultimately shunted into Energon, reportedly for a combination of budgetary concerns and keeping the combination gimmick (since he combines with the packed-in Swoop to form a super robot) only in the main-line, which had combination as a central theme.
* A working name for the [[Alternators]] Ford Mustang mold which ultimately ended up as Grimlock was "[[Freeway]]", according to various early store listings.
* Grimlock's beast mode in The Gathering does not actually match any dromeaosaur on record, seeming to combine elements of both the dromeaosaur body type with that of a carnosaur or tyrannosaurid. Why, because Grimlock only does massive deus ex machina powerhouse, not speed merchant, like [[Dinobot (BW)|some]] people.
* Simon Furman announced on the IDW forums that Grimlock will be receiving a Spotlight in 2008.

{{-}}

==Footnotes==
<references/>

==External links==
*[http://www.tfu.info/1985/Autobot/Grimlock/grimlock.htm Grimlock at TFU.info]

*[http://www.ntfa.net/universe/english/index.php?act=view&char=Grimlock Grimlock's Universe profile at NTFA.net]

{{charstub}}
[[Category: Alternators]]
[[Category: Attacktix]]
[[Category: Autobot leaders]]
[[Category: Beast Wars characters]]
[[Category: Classics characters]]
[[Category: Combiners]]
[[Category: Deputy Commanders]]
[[Category: Dinobots]]
[[Category: Pretenders]]
[[Category: Generation 2 characters]]
[[Category: Headmasters characters]]
[[Category: K-Mart exclusives]]
[[Category: Letters page answerers]]
[[Category: Maximals]]
[[Category: MyClone]]
[[Category: Primitives]]
[[Category: Robot Heroes]]
[[Category: Titanium Series]]
[[Category: Turncoats]]
[[Category: Universe characters]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Transformers (2007 toyline)

2007-07-17T14:26:25Z

Sofaman: /* Other Action Figures */

Remarkably, the producers of the small independent [[Transformers (2007)|Transformers film]] opening in July 2007 have obtained part of their financing by selling the ''merchandising'' rights for the movie.

==Toyline==

====Preview Figures (Movie Deluxe class)====
*Protoform [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]]
*Protoform [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]

===Action Figures ("main" line)===
====Wave 1====
'''Movie Deluxe'''
*[[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]]
*[[Jazz (Movie)|Autobot Jazz]]
*[[Brawl (Movie)|Decepticon Brawl]]
*[[Barricade (Movie)|Barricade]]
*[[Scorponok (Movie)|Scorponok]]
*[[Wreckage (Movie)|Wreckage]] (apparently a non-Movie character, may appear in the Movie Game)
*[[Bonecrusher (Movie)|Bonecrusher]]
*[[Swindle (Movie)|Swindle]] (a non-Movie character, appears in the Movie Game)

'''Movie Voyager'''
*[[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]
*[[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]] (includes non-transforming [[Scale|scaled-down]] figurine of [[Scorponok (Movie)|Scorponok]])
*[[Ratchet (Movie)|Autobot Ratchet]]
*[[Ironhide (Movie)|Ironhide]]

'''Movie Leader'''
*[[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]]
*[[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]]

====Other Action Figures====
'''Movie [[Real Gear Robots]]'''
*[[Speed Dial 800]] (Mobile Phone)
*[[Longview]] (Binoculars)
*[[Spy Shot 6]] (Digital Camera)
*[[Power Up VT6]] (Portable Video Game Player)
*[[Booster X10]] (MP3 Player)
*[[Zoom Out 25X]] (Digital Video Camera)
*[[Meantime]] (Digital Watch)
*[[High Score 100]] (Game Console Controller)
*[[Wire Tap V20]] (Mobile Phone)
*[[Nightbeat 7]] (MP3 Player)

'''Movie Legends'''
*[[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]]
*[[Barricade (Movie)|Barricade]]
*[[Jazz (Movie)|Autobot Jazz]]
*[[Ratchet (Movie)|Autobot Ratchet]]

===Fast Transformers Fun===
'''Cyber Stompin' Robots'''
(non-transforming)
*Cyber Stompin' [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]]
*Cyber Stompin' [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]]

'''Cyber Slammers'''
*[[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]]
*[[Barricade (Movie)|Barricade]]

'''Fast Action Battlers'''
*Cannon Blast [[Ironhide (Movie)|Ironhide]]
*Battle Blade [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]
*Power Hook [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]]
*Ion Blast [[Jazz (Movie)|Autobot Jazz]]

'''Role Play'''
*[[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] Voice Changer (helmet)
*[[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] Battle Rig Blaster
*[[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] Barrel Roll Blaster
*Transformers Water Shooter

===Plain Transformers Fun===
'''Mr Potato Head Transformers'''
*[[Optimash Prime]]

'''Plush Transformers'''
*[[Optimus Prime (G1) toys|Softimus Prime]] ([[G1]]-style Prime, soft toy transforms by turning inside out, using velcro)
*[[Bumblebee (G1)|Slumblebee]] (ditto, for G1-styled Bumblebee)

'''Robot Heroes'''
(2-inch non-transforming cutified figurines similar to Star Wars Galactic Heroes et al. [[Generation 1 (cartoon)|G1 cartoon]] characters in Movie packaging)
*[[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] vs. [[Ravage]]
*[[Hot Rod|Rodimus]] vs. [[Shrapnel (G1)|Insecticon]] (Actually Hot Rod vs. Shrapnel)
*[[Grimlock (G1)|Grimlock]] vs. [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]]
*[[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] vs. [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]]
*[[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]] vs. [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]]

===Collector===
'''Unleashed'''
*[[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]]

'''Movie Titanium'''
*[[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]]
*[[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]]
*[[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]]

====Wave 2====

==Merchandise==
* [http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showthread.php?t=123245 Exhaustive Transformers 2007 merchandise list, maintained by AMS.]

==Trivia==
*As of the Movie toyline, the "Ultra" pricepoint has been abolished. Whether this will continue to be the case for future lines remains to be seen.

[[Category: Movie]]
[[Category: Toys]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Transformers (2007 toyline)

2007-06-09T13:50:21Z

Sofaman: /* Other Action Figures */ added other 2 Real Gear figures

Remarkably, the producers of the small independent [[Transformers (2007)|Transformers film]] opening in July 2007 have obtained part of their financing by selling the ''merchandising'' rights for the movie.

==Toyline==

====Preview Figures (Movie Deluxe class)====
*Protoform [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]]
*Protoform [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]

===Action Figures ("main" line)===
====Wave 1====
'''Movie Deluxe'''
*[[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]]
*[[Jazz (Movie)|Autobot Jazz]]
*[[Brawl (Movie)|Decepticon Brawl]]
*[[Barricade (Movie)|Barricade]]
*[[Scorponok (Movie)|Scorponok]]
*[[Wreckage (Movie)|Wreckage]] (apparently a non-Movie character, may appear in the Movie Game)
*[[Bonecrusher (Movie)|Bonecrusher]]
*[[Swindle (Movie)|Swindle]] (a non-Movie character, appears in the Movie Game)

'''Movie Voyager'''
*[[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]
*[[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]] (includes non-transforming [[Scale|scaled-down]] figurine of [[Scorponok (Movie)|Scorponok]])
*[[Ratchet (Movie)|Autobot Ratchet]]
*[[Ironhide (Movie)|Ironhide]]

'''Movie Leader'''
*[[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]]
*[[Megatron (Movie)|Megatron]]

====Other Action Figures====
'''Movie [[Real Gear Robots]]'''
*[[Speed Dial 800]] (Mobile Phone)
*[[Longview]] (Binoculars)
*[[Spy Shot 6]] (Digital Camera)
*[[Power Up VT6]] (Portable Video Game Player)
*[[Booster X10]] (MP3 Player)
*[[Zoom Out 25X]] (Digital Video Camera)

'''Movie Legends'''
*[[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]]
*[[Barricade (Movie)|Barricade]]
*[[Jazz (Movie)|Autobot Jazz]]
*[[Ratchet (Movie)|Autobot Ratchet]]

===Fast Transformers Fun===
'''Cyber Stompin' Robots'''
(non-transforming)
*Cyber Stompin' [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]]
*Cyber Stompin' [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]]

'''Cyber Slammers'''
*[[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]]
*[[Barricade (Movie)|Barricade]]

'''Fast Action Battlers'''
*Cannon Blast [[Ironhide (Movie)|Ironhide]]
*Battle Blade [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]
*Power Hook [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]]
*Ion Blast [[Jazz (Movie)|Autobot Jazz]]

'''Role Play'''
*[[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] Voice Changer (helmet)
*[[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] Battle Rig Blaster
*[[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]] Barrel Roll Blaster
*Transformers Water Shooter

===Plain Transformers Fun===
'''Mr Potato Head Transformers'''
*[[Optimash Prime]]

'''Plush Transformers'''
*[[Optimus Prime (G1) toys|Softimus Prime]] ([[G1]]-style Prime, soft toy transforms by turning inside out, using velcro)
*[[Bumblebee (G1)|Slumblebee]] (ditto, for G1-styled Bumblebee)

'''Robot Heroes'''
(2-inch non-transforming cutified figurines similar to Star Wars Galactic Heroes et al. [[Generation 1 (cartoon)|G1 cartoon]] characters in Movie packaging)
*[[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] vs. [[Ravage]]
*[[Hot Rod|Rodimus]] vs. [[Shrapnel (G1)|Insecticon]] (Actually Hot Rod vs. Shrapnel)
*[[Grimlock (G1)|Grimlock]] vs. [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]]
*[[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] vs. [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]]
*[[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]] vs. [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]]

===Collector===
'''Unleashed'''
*[[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]]

'''Movie Titanium'''
*[[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]]
*[[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]]
*[[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]]

====Wave 2====

==Merchandise==

==Trivia==
The new Movie toyline provides some new [[Scale|scale challenges]]. Like several lines prior, the 2007 film toyline provides some instances of multiple differently-scaled versions of the same character within a single line. Even ignoring the different "styles" of product such as [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Ultimate Bumblebee]], "Movie Legends" and "Fast Action Battlers", the "main" line itself will feature both [[Size class|Voyager class and Leader class]] versions of [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Movie Prime]] and [[Megatron (Movie)|Movie Megatron]]. Also confirmed are [[Brawl (Movie)|Brawl]], who will be produced in both Deluxe and Leader classes, and [[Scorponok (Movie)|Scorponok]], who appears as both a presumably scale-accurate non-transforming figurine that can be deployed by (and is included with) Voyager class [[Blackout (Movie)|Blackout]], while also being released as a much larger Deluxe class figure that can also [[combiner|combine]] and be incorporated into a dual gimmick function with the same Voyager Blackout.
{{stub}}<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Size class

2006-12-25T08:21:57Z

Sofaman: /* Classics */

'''Size class''' is how [[Hasbro]] determines the size and price of a toy. It also determines the amount of budget spent on the production of a toy, such as paint or electronics.

Size class has not been consistent from line to line, with names often changed to affect marketability.

==Beast Wars==
''[[Beast Wars (toyline)|Beast Wars]]'' had five size classes. The cheapest, with the price around US$5, was Basic. Deluxe was the next cheapest, being around US$10 in price. The two smallest classes are sold on cards to this day. The next step is Mega, with a price of US$15. Toys of this size were often [[shelfwarmer]]s. Only six toys were sold as the next largest size, Ultra, with a price of US$20. The largest size, Super, was only attained by one toy, [[Optimal Optimus]], which was sold for US$35. All of the classes larger than Deluxe were, and are, sold in boxes.

==Beast Machines==
''[[Beast Machines (toyline)|Beast Machines]]'' continued ''Beast Wars''<nowiki>'</nowiki> size classes, but increased the price of Basic to US$7. Supreme was introduced as a US$40 size class; [[Cheetor (BW)|Cheetor]] was the only Supreme in this line; a Supreme [[Optimus Primal]] toy was planned to be in this line, but was moved to ''Robots in Disguise''. Two other size classes were added, [[Deployer]]s and [[Beast Rider]]s. The size of Ultra toys were increased while maintaining the price.

==Robots in Disguise==
''[[Robots in Disguise (toyline)|Robots in Disguise]]'' used the ''Beast Wars'' size classes, with an added US$3 price point for individual [[Spychanger]]s.

==Armada==
''[[Armada (toyline)|Armada]]'' discontinued the Mega size class and gave new names to some size classes. Deluxe was renamed Supercon and Ultra to Maxcon. The US$25 size class was introduced as Gigacon. Basics were replaced with packs of three [[Mini-Con]]s. The US$40 class was renamed "Super-Base", and the US$50 class was introduced as "Chaos Bringer". There was also a US$15 price point for the Roleplay Star Saber swords and [[Laserbeak (Armada)|Laserbeak]].

==Universe==
''[[Universe]]'' used the ''Beast Wars'' size classes, but only had Deluxe and Ultra. Some [[exclusive]] toys, such as [[Sunstorm (Universe)|Sunstorm]] with [[Perceptor (Universe)|Perceptor]], and [[Ruination]] were sold in their own size class.

==Energon==
''[[Energon (toyline)|Energon]]'' returned to the ''Beast Wars'' naming, and brought Basics back. However, "Supreme" was used for the US$50 class, "Super" for the US$40 class, "Ultra" for the US$25 class, and "Mega" was used for the US$20 size class

==Cybertron==
''[[Cybertron (toyline)|Cybertron]]'' changed the naming of some size classes, but retained Deluxe, Ultra, and Supreme. Basic was changed to Scout, Mega to Voyager, and Super to Leader. A new class, Mini-Con, was added for the Minicon two-packs, and was set at US$5. The Legends of Cybertron figures are set at US$4 at Toys "R" Us, but varied at the drug stores the figures were first released at.

==Classics==
''Classics'' so far has only the Scout, Deluxe and Voyager size classes.
[[Category:Toys]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Micromaster

2006-12-18T04:53:52Z

Sofaman:

'''Micromasters''' were Transformers who downsized their bodies considerably to be more fuel efficient. Transforming into tiny cars, planes, and other vehicles, many team up in four-member patrols, while others commandeer vehicles or battlestations which can transform into other things.

Some Micromasters were also Combiners, and could each form either the front or back half of a combined vehicle. They were not constrained to joining only with their Combiner partner; they also could join with any other Combiner.

Micromasters were usually grouped as Patrols, Squads, Transports, Stations or Bases:

'''Micromaster Patrols'''

''Autobots''
* Off Road Patrol ([[Highjump (G1)|Highjump]], [[Mudslinger]], [[Powertrain]] & [[Tote]])
* Race Car Patrol ([[Tailspin]], [[Free Wheeler]], [[Roadhandler (G1)|Roadhandler]] & [[Swindler]])
* Rescue Patrol ([[Seawatch]], [[Stakeout]], [[Fixit]] & [[Red Hot]])
* Battle Patrol ([[Big Shot]], [[Sidetrack]], [[Sunrunner]] & [[Flak]])
* Construction Patrol ([[Neutro]], [[Groundpounder]], [[Crumble]] & [[Takedown]])
* Air Patrol ([[Sky High (Micromaster)|Sky High]], [[Eagle Eye (G1)|Eagle Eye]], [[Blaze Master]] & [[Tread Bolt]])
* Monster Truck Patrol ([[Hydraulic]], [[Slow Poke]], [[Big Hauler]] & [[Heavy Tread]])
* Hot Rod Patrol ([[Big Daddy]], [[Trip-Up]], [[Greaser]] & [[Hubs]])

''Decepticons''
* Air Strike Patrol ([[Nightflight]], [[Storm Cloud (G1)|Storm Cloud]], [[Whisper]] & [[Tailwind]])
* Sports Car Patrol ([[Detour]], [[Blackjack]], [[Hyperdrive]] & [[Road Hugger]])
* Race Track Patrol ([[Roller Force]], [[Barricade]], [[Ground Hog]] & [[Motorhead]])
* Military Patrol ([[Bombshock]], [[Tracer (Decepticon)|Tracer]], [[Dropshot (G1)|Dropshot]] & [[Growl]])

'''Micromaster Combiner Squads'''

''Autobots''
* Metro Squad ([[Wheel Blaze]], [[Roadburner]], [[Oiler]], [[Slide]], [[Power Run]] & [[Strikedown]])
* Astro Squad ([[Phaser]], [[Blast Master]], [[Moonrock]], [[Missile Master]], [[Barrage (Autobot)|Barrage]] & [[Heave]])

''Decepticons''
* Battle Squad ([[Meltdown]], [[Half-Track]], [[Direct-Hit]], [[Power Punch]], [[Fireshot]] & [[Vanquish]])
* Constructor Squad ([[Stonecruncher]], [[Excavator]], [[Sledge]], [[Hammer]], [[Grit]] & [[Knockout (G1)|Knockout]])

'''Micromaster Transports'''

''Autobots''
* [[Erector]]
* [[Overload (G1)|Overload]]

''Decepticons''
* [[Flattop (Decepticon)|Flattop]]
* [[Roughstuff]]

'''Micromaster Combiner Transports'''

''Autobots''
* Missile Launcher (with [[Retro]] & [[Surge]])
* Tanker Truck (with [[Pipeline]] & [[Gusher]])

''Decepticons''
* Cannon Transport (with [[Terror-Tread]] & [[Cement-Head]])

'''Micromaster Stations'''

''Autobots''
* [[Hot House]]
* [[Ironworks]]

''Decepticons''
* [[Greasepit]]
* [[Airwave]]

'''Micromaster Bases'''
* [[Groundshaker]]
* [[Skyhopper]]
'''Micromaster Autobot Rocket Base'''
* [[Countdown]]
'''Micromaster Decepticon Jet Command Center'''
* [[Skystalker]]
'''Micromaster Combiner Autobot Battlefield Headquarters'''
* Battlefield Headquarters with [[Full-Barrel]] & [[Overflow]]
'''Micromaster Combiner Decepticon Anti-Aircraft Base'''
* Anti-Aircraft Base with [[Blackout (G1)|Blackout]] & [[Spaceshot]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Micromaster

2006-12-18T04:52:23Z

Sofaman:

Does anyone have a scan (or a trsanscript) of the card-blurb Micromaster origin involvign the Pretenders?

(Or has Derik finally lost his mind, and is remembering things that never existed?)

Did the American 1989 Boxback art feature the Micromasters? Botch'a archive lacks it.-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:19, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Will the Universe Micromasters go here too? --[[User:Terrocon Blot|Terrocon Blot]] 04:31, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
:I believe so. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 04:49, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

::I thought so too - I was just starting with what I knew. --[[User:Sofaman|Sofaman]] 04:51, 18 December 2006 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Micromaster

2006-12-18T04:52:02Z

Sofaman:

Does anyone have a scan (or a trsanscript) of the card-blurb Micromaster origin involvign the Pretenders?

(Or has Derik finally lost his mind, and is remembering things that never existed?)

Did the American 1989 Boxback art feature the Micromasters? Botch'a archive lacks it.-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:19, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Will the Universe Micromasters go here too? --[[User:Terrocon Blot|Terrocon Blot]] 04:31, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
:I believe so. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 04:49, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

::I thought so too - I was just starting with what I knew.
--[[User:Sofaman|Sofaman]] 04:51, 18 December 2006 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Micromaster

2006-12-18T04:51:41Z

Sofaman:

Does anyone have a scan (or a trsanscript) of the card-blurb Micromaster origin involvign the Pretenders?

(Or has Derik finally lost his mind, and is remembering things that never existed?)

Did the American 1989 Boxback art feature the Micromasters? Botch'a archive lacks it.-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:19, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Will the Universe Micromasters go here too? --[[User:Terrocon Blot|Terrocon Blot]] 04:31, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
:I believe so. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 04:49, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
::I thought so too - I was just starting with what I knew. --[[User:Sofaman|Sofaman]] 04:51, 18 December 2006 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Micromaster

2006-12-18T03:59:19Z

Sofaman: Added list of US released toys, and info about Combiners

'''Micromasters''' were Transformers who downsized their bodies considerably to be more fuel efficient. Transforming into tiny cars, planes, and other vehicles, many team up in four-member squads, while others commandeer vehicles or battlestations which can transform into other things.

Some Micromasters were also Combiners, and could each form either the front or back half of a combined vehicle. They were not constrained to joining only with their Combiner partner; they also could join with any other Combiner.

Micromasters were usually grouped as Patrols, Squads, Transports, Stations or Bases:

'''Micromaster Patrols'''

''Autobots''
* Off Road Patrol ([[Highjump (G1)|Highjump]], [[Mudslinger]], [[Powertrain]] & [[Tote]])
* Race Car Patrol ([[Tailspin]], [[Free Wheeler]], [[Roadhandler (G1)|Roadhandler]] & [[Swindler]])
* Rescue Patrol ([[Seawatch]], [[Stakeout]], [[Fixit]] & [[Red Hot]])
* Battle Patrol ([[Big Shot]], [[Sidetrack]], [[Sunrunner]] & [[Flak]])
* Construction Patrol ([[Neutro]], [[Groundpounder]], [[Crumble]] & [[Takedown]])
* Air Patrol ([[Sky High (Micromaster)|Sky High]], [[Eagle Eye (G1)|Eagle Eye]], [[Blaze Master]] & [[Tread Bolt]])
* Monster Truck Patrol ([[Hydraulic]], [[Slow Poke]], [[Big Hauler]] & [[Heavy Tread]])
* Hot Rod Patrol ([[Big Daddy]], [[Trip-Up]], [[Greaser]] & [[Hubs]])

''Decepticons''
* Air Strike Patrol ([[Nightflight]], [[Storm Cloud (G1)|Storm Cloud]], [[Whisper]] & [[Tailwind]])
* Sports Car Patrol ([[Detour]], [[Blackjack]], [[Hyperdrive]] & [[Road Hugger]])
* Race Track Patrol ([[Roller Force]], [[Barricade]], [[Ground Hog]] & [[Motorhead]])
* Military Patrol ([[Bombshock]], [[Tracer (Decepticon)|Tracer]], [[Dropshot (G1)|Dropshot]] & [[Growl]])

'''Micromaster Combiner Squads'''

''Autobots''
* Metro Squad ([[Wheel Blaze]], [[Roadburner]], [[Oiler]], [[Slide]], [[Power Run]] & [[Strikedown]])
* Astro Squad ([[Phaser]], [[Blast Master]], [[Moonrock]], [[Missile Master]], [[Barrage (Autobot)|Barrage]] & [[Heave]])

''Decepticons''
* Battle Squad ([[Meltdown]], [[Half-Track]], [[Direct-Hit]], [[Power Punch]], [[Fireshot]] & [[Vanquish]])
* Constructor Squad ([[Stonecruncher]], [[Excavator]], [[Sledge]], [[Hammer]], [[Grit]] & [[Knockout (G1)|Knockout]])

'''Micromaster Transports'''

''Autobots''
* [[Erector]]
* [[Overload (G1)|Overload]]

''Decepticons''
* [[Flattop (Decepticon)|Flattop]]
* [[Roughstuff]]

'''Micromaster Combiner Transports'''

''Autobots''
* Missile Launcher (with [[Retro]] & [[Surge]])
* Tanker Truck (with [[Pipeline]] & [[Gusher]])

''Decepticons''
* Cannon Transport (with [[Terror-Tread]] & [[Cement-Head]])

'''Micromaster Stations'''

''Autobots''
* [[Hot House]]
* [[Ironworks]]

''Decepticons''
* [[Greasepit]]
* [[Airwave]]

'''Micromaster Bases'''
* [[Groundshaker]]
* [[Skyhopper]]
'''Micromaster Autobot Rocket Base'''
* [[Countdown]]
'''Micromaster Decepticon Jet Command Center'''
* [[Skystalker]]
'''Micromaster Combiner Autobot Battlefield Headquarters'''
* Battlefield Headquarters with [[Full-Barrel]] & [[Overflow]]
'''Micromaster Combiner Decepticon Anti-Aircraft Base'''
* Anti-Aircraft Base with [[Blackout (G1)|Blackout]] & [[Spaceshot]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Female Transformer

2006-11-26T12:20:10Z

Sofaman:

'''Strika'''

There seems to be some vehemence about Strika's status (or not) as a female.

While I agree that there is no 'definitive' evidence that Strika is female, neither is there 'definitive' evidence that most TFs are male, yet we have no difficulty accepting that fact. To dismiss the (in my view) quite reasonable assumption that Strika is female as 'fan-conjecture' ignores a number of common-sense factors:

* The fact that in the cartoon she was voiced by female voice actor - there is no instance I can recall of a female TF character being voiced by a male actor or vice versa.

* That she is referred to as Obsidian's consort (rather than associate) is not insignificant. There is a nuance of meaning in the term that implies that they are not merely associates, but their relationship would be more similar to that of husband and wife, or domestic companions. The primary meaning of consort is the spouse of a monarch, which would sit well with Obsidian's perceived status.

On this basis, I think that it is reasonable to assert that Strika is intended to be a female character until there is conclusive evidence to the contrary. Perhaps she should be included in this listing, with a disclaimer about lack of formal evidence. To do otherwise would smack of legalistic hair-splitting.

:...I wasn't aware this was even in doubt. It'd require a fairly baroque misreading of Beast Machines to make Strika a dude. (BWR might change that.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:25, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
: I was also unaware. How can she not be a girl? ''Her tech spec calls her a girl.'' --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 04:35, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
: I'd like to third this "what the hell?". --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 04:42, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

::...what do you mean fan-conjecture? He identifies her as his consort. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 06:06, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
:::http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/consort<br>
:::Of the SIX DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS, several of which are military in nature, only ONE is romantic. And again, there is absolutely fuck-all outside of one word with multiple accurate non-romatic applications to suggest any form of romance between the two. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 06:21, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

::::Really? Huh, I didn't think any of the other definitions actually fit...
::::''1. a husband or wife; spouse, esp. of a reigning monarch. Compare PRINCE CONSORT , QUEEN CONSORT.
::::''2. one ship accompanying another.
::::''3. a. a group of instrumentalists and singers who perform music, esp. old music. b. a group of instruments of the same family, as viols, played in concert.
::::''4. a companion, associate, or partner.
::::''5. accord or agreement.
::::That leaves us #1 or #4... on reflection, the way Obsidian says it really '''does''' fit #4 better. *checks TF ultimate guide* Huh, there it calls her his cohort, which again seems to support Obsidian meant she was his partner, not sexytime toy.
::::Perhaps there should be a note on the Strika page? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:10, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
:::::Er... perhaps there should be a Strika page? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:10, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

::::::Ah, I think I follow something of the "WTF?" I have created - the conjecture is not about Strika's status as a female, but about the nature of the relationship with Obsidian implied from this. Apologies for this misreading.

::::::Having said this, some fundamental points remain - yes, there are 6 definitions of consort, but these are not equal or interchangeable - the most common or accepted usage of the term is almost always the one defined first.

::::::If the creators of Beast Machines had intended a more neutral relationship like associate, partner or companion, they could easily have used those words, and thus have prevented this current debate. However, the fact that they chose to use the word consort does make certain implications far more reasonable. There have been few (if any) female TFs introduced who did not have some manner of romantic or intimate entanglement. Since there is little doubt of Strika's gender, it is reasonable on this basis to assert that Obsidian and Strika were in an interdependent relationship similar to a marriage. Whether this included physical intimacy is neither here nor there, since many marriages can be founded on mutual attachment without intimacy. We can debate the nature of romance until the cows come home, though this wiki is probably not the best forum for this.

::::::So, relationship or not? --[[User:Sofaman|Sofaman]] 12:20, 26 November 2006 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Female Transformer

2006-11-26T04:19:14Z

Sofaman:

Vorns

2006-10-25T08:47:40Z

Sofaman:

A '''vorn''' is a [[Cybertronian]] unit of time, approximately 83 Earth years in length.<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Gold Plastic Syndrome

2006-10-24T10:01:14Z

Sofaman: /* Toys commonly associated with Gold Plastic Syndrome */ Added Pretender Monsters

A term coined by the fandom, '''Gold Plastic Syndrome''' (commonly shorthanded to '''GPS''') is used to describe the phenomenon of a toy's plastic decomposing and becoming brittle to the point of shattering or crumbling under minimal-stress conditions. This is different from the relatively more common stress-fracture type of plastic breakage that can occur in some Transformers toys. All noted instances of GPS have occured in hard, glossy gold-colored plastics that appear to have a "swirl" to their coloraton.

GPS is notably widespread among toys made in the tail-end of [[Generation 1]], typically the second year of [[Pretender]]s and even some European-market exclusives, but examples have surfaced from lines as recent as ''[[Generation 2]]'' and the ''[[Beast Wars (toyline)|Beast Wars]]'' series. Transformers toys are not the only ones to suffer from this; there have been reports of G.I. Joe and Visionaries toys' gold plastics also crumbling seemingly of their own accord.

==The cause of GPS==
==GPS misconceptions==
The most common misconception about GPS is that ''all'' gold-colored plastic can suffer from this rot. Only certain plastic grades (described above) have been noted to be susceptible to GPS crumbling; in the past few years, more durable, pliable plastics have become the norm for toy construction, so the gold plastic on more recent toys like [[Cannonball (UT)|Cannonball]] are highly unlikely to have the flaw.

Also, not every type of plastic breakage is the kind caused by GPS. In most instances of broken toys, visible stress marks appear long before any breakage in the form of discoloration (since these plastics havea bit more "give" to them), and are typically very clean "snaps" due to excess pressure. GPS breakages seemingly come from simple decomposition of the plastic without any form of excess force at all, and the breaks tend to leave shards of plastic and dust.

==Toys commonly associated with Gold Plastic Syndrome==
* [[Black Zarak]]
* [[Electro]]
* ''Beast Wars'' [[Grimlock (G1)|Grimlock]]
* [[Pretender Monsters]]
* [[Randy]]
* ''Generation 1'' [[Roadblock (G1)|Roadblock]]
* [[Skyhammer]]
* ''Generation 2'' [[Slingshot]]
* [[Serpentor]], while not a Transformer, is also known to suffer from this problem.

{{stub}}
[[Category: Diseases]]
[[Category: Toys]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Recon Mini-Con Team

2006-10-21T06:08:24Z

Sofaman: /* Cybertron */ Team is available for sale in Australia.

[[Image:ReconTeam-card.jpg|thumb|250px|right|Pop-O-Matic pops the dice.]]

The '''Recon Mini-Con Team''' (also known as the '''Mini-Con Data Retrieval Team''') originally hail from [[Gigantion]] the Giant Planet, but have since joined [[Vector Prime]] in his journey to preserve the fabric of time and space. Now on [[Earth]], they have formed a deep friendship with the [[human]] kids [[Coby Hansen|Coby]], [[Bud Hansen|Bud]] and [[Lori]].

The Recon Mini-Con team consists of...

*[[Jolt (Cybertron)|Jolt]] the helicopter.

*[[Reverb]] the pickup truck.

*[[Six-Speed]] the LeMans race car.

''Japanse name:'' '''Micron Team'''

==Toys==
===Cybertron===
*'''Recon Mini-Con Team''' (Scout-Class, 2005)
:''Japanese ID number:'' '''GC-07'''

: This trio of Mini-Cons was originally only sold as a three-pack. There are severla small paint differences between the [[Takara]] and [[Hasbro]] versions of the team.

: This mold-set was also used to make the [[Platinum Mini-Cons]], and the [[Micron Booster]] Mini-Cons [[Bit]], [[Plier]] and [[Socket]]. [[Change Micron]] versions of each member were sold in individual boxes as [[candy toy]]s by [[Kabaya]].

*'''Shadow Recon Mini-Con Team''' (Scout-Class, 2006)

: As part of the presumably-final wave of ''[[Cybertron (franchise)|Cybertron]]'' Scout-class toys, the Shadow Recon Mini-Con Team is a [[redeco]] of the Team in a variety of transparent plastics.

==Trivia/Notes==
* Even though the Team did not come with a [[Cyber Planet Key]], they have an active [[Cyber Key Codes|Cyber Key Code]] on Hasbro's website. Their code is "'''sh26'''".

[[Category: Autobots]]
[[Category: Cybertron characters]]
[[Category: Gigantion]]
[[Category: Mini-Con teams]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Shelfwarmer

2006-10-12T07:26:41Z

Sofaman:

'''Shelfwarmer''' is a colloquial term for a toy that fails to sell well, leaving residual quantities on store shelves for months or even years after its original release.

A related term is '''pegwarmer''', used to refer to toys packaged on cards (which thereby hang on pegs), rather than in boxes.<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Shelfwarmer

2006-10-12T07:22:34Z

Sofaman:

A shelfwarmer is a colloquial term for a toy that fails to sell well, leaving residual quantities on store shelves for months or even years after its original release.<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Fuzor

2006-10-12T02:52:33Z

Sofaman:

Is Magmatron a Fuzor? What's the basis for that? --[[User:Sofaman|Sofaman]] 15:09, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
: The packaging on his US Target-exclusive release said so. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:32, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
::''Following an interplanetary quest for energy capsules, Magmatron returned to Cybertron to find an alarmingly growing population of Vehicon drones. Revered by his followers and reviled by his enemies, Magmatron is known by all as an "emperor of destruction." His determination to succeed is unshakable and he accepts nothing less than total victory. Mitotic spark allows for separation into three aggressive dinosaur modes: Landsaur, Seasaur, Skysaur then recombines into an unstoppable tri-dinosaur Fuzor.''
:From TFU.info. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:32, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

:: That's cool then. --[[User:Sofaman|Sofaman]] 02:52, 12 October 2006 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Razor Claw

2006-10-11T15:12:29Z

Sofaman: Added Fuzors to Categories

{{disambig3|Razorclaw}}
:''Razor Claw is a [[Mutant (BW)|Mutant]] from the [[Beast Wars]] portion of the [[Generation 1]] continuity family''

'''Razor Claw''' is loyal, self-sacrificing warrior, who fights with crusader-like enthusiasm. He harbours a secret jealously towards those Transformers who still possess a robot mode. As a wolverine, his tremendous speed borders on teleportation. As a velociraptor, he is impervious to firepower.

==Fiction==

===Universe===

''('''Note''': Their toy package blurbs and character bios, as well as the 3H [[Universe]] comics, place the Mutants on Cybertron during the events of [[Beast Machines]]. (Their creation via Megatron's virus is a direct reference to the Beast Machines cartoon, as are mentions of the [[Oracle]] in their bios.) The IDW Beast Wars comics place them instead on prehistoric Earth during Beast Wars. It is unclear if this is a [[retcon]] or will be explained at a later date. It should also be noted that Razor Claw is the only Mutant not to have appeared so far in the IDW Beast Wars comics.
''

== Toys ==
=== Beast Wars ===
* '''Razor Claw''' (Mutant, 2000)
:Razor Claw was a [[deluxe]]-sized toy, and could transform between a velociraptor and a wolverine. His robot head could be revealed by lifting the top of the velociraptor head. He lacked the 'hidden robot parts' feature shared by the other 3 Mutant toys.

== External links ==
* [http://tfu.info/2000/Mutant/RazorClaw/razorclaw.htm Razor Claw at TFU.info]

{{stub}}
[[Category: Beast Machines]]
[[Category:Beast Wars characters]]
[[Category:Fuzors]]
[[Category:Universe]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Fuzor

2006-10-11T15:09:47Z

Sofaman:

Is Magmatron a Fuzor? What's the basis for that? --[[User:Sofaman|Sofaman]] 15:09, 11 October 2006 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Fuzor

2006-10-11T15:08:17Z

Sofaman: Fixed Razor Claw link

A '''Fuzor''' is a Transformer whose alternate mode is a fusion of two or more distinct kinds of beasts. This condition can be brought on by a [[stasis pod]] malfuction, often when its scanner chooses two native life forms simultaneously.

Known Fuzors include:

* [[Air Hammer]]
* [[Bantor]]
* [[Buzzclaw (BW)|Buzzclaw]]
* [[Icebird]]
* [[Injector]]
* [[Magmatron]]
* [[Noctorro]]
* [[Poison Bite]]
* [[Quickstrike (BW)|Quickstrike]]
* [[Razor Claw (Mutant)|Razor Claw]]
* [[Silverbolt (Fuzor)|Silverbolt]]
* [[Sky Shadow (BW)|Sky Shadow]]
* [[Soundwave (BW)|Soundwave]]
* [[Terragator]]
* [[Torca]]

[[Category: Beast Wars]]
[[Category: Fuzors| ]]
[[Category: Subgroups]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Fuzor

2006-10-11T12:31:33Z

Sofaman: Added list of known Fuzors

A '''Fuzor''' is a Transformer whose alternate mode is a fusion of two or more distinct kinds of beasts. This condition can be brought on by a [[stasis pod]] malfuction, often when its scanner chooses two native life forms simultaneously.

Known Fuzors include:
* [[Silverbolt (Fuzor)|Silverbolt]]
* [[Quickstrike (BW)|Quickstrike]]
* [[Air Hammer]]
* [[Bantor]]
* [[Buzzclaw (BW)|Buzzclaw]]
* [[Injector]]
* [[Noctorro]]
* [[Sky Shadow (BW)|Sky Shadow]]
* [[Terragator]]
* [[Torca]]

[[Category: Beast Wars]]
[[Category: Fuzors| ]]
[[Category: Subgroups]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2006-10-10T11:45:11Z

Sofaman: /* Currency */

==Archives==
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive1|Archive1]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive2|Archive2]]

==Control art==
There's been a lot of control art thrown up recently -- try [Megatron (BW)] for example -- but I'm not sure how to treat it yet. I certainly don't think it belongs up at the top of the article with the bios, and it would probably work better down near the toy section, but that area's going to be swamped with toy pics already. (I'm also concerned with the ethics of putting them all up on the wiki. Placing the entire contents of the BW Reborn DVD on the wiki can't possibly fall under Fair Use.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:35, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
:I figured it was fair game since there certainly seem to be a fair amount of comic scans, Genesis scans, DVD screenshots, as well as having Dan Khanna and Guido Guidi art posted. There's far more on the Golden Disc, but the only thing that really seemed needed was the toy art. And true, I had no clue where it would fit, so it can be moved to wherever.--MCRG
::It's a matter of proportion. There's a difference between scanning a panel from a comic book for an entry and having the entire comic book issue scanned, page-by-page. This is a simple distinction. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 23:49, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
:::I'm not putting up the entire disc.--MCRG
::I think putting up every single piece of control art from the disc would be very different, fair-use wise, than is having up a few scattered comic panels and character portraits. Even if there is more to the disc than just the control art. So I definitely do not think they should all be uploaded to this Wiki. I'm also not sure what the point of uploading them here is... They are neat, of course, but we aren't really envisioning this Wiki as a repository of every single piece of Transformers information ever. It's a TF encyclopedia, basically. I think having an article called [[control art]] would be a great idea, and could include a few examples. And we can include control art for some of the characters' toys in the character articles if there's something especially interesting about it, like the spark figure on TM2 Megatron. But including all of them is, I think, neither fair use nor useful. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 01:18, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
:::Is this on an archive somewhere? Create a Control Art article, upload a few examples, and put a link to the off-site online archive.
:::If it's NOT online soemwhere, maybe you have to ask yourself- in an era when '''everything''' tf-related is online, why isn't this? Possibly peopel decided it was a tad ''gauche'' to upload a big chunk of the exclusive content of a comercial product while it was still being widely sold.
:::And even if ti wasn't- this wiki is not an archive for that kind of thing. We dont' have everyon'es box art up, or their tech-specs, or anythign else relatign to them. In fact, we tend to fall back on box art just when there's no other images of characters. On tech-specs for content when the character has no media appearances to guide us.
:::Control art is interesting- for what it is. It's appropriate to show off for, like, Megatron and Dinobot, where it shows off features that didnt' make it into the final toys. The wiki is not an archive.
:::That said, the internet is full of archives. I love the control art. Go put it up at one of the archives. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:15, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

::: I basically agree with everything Steve-O said. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 02:38, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

==Franchise Designations, part three==
Since part 2's gotten huge...

I'm fine with the idea of dropping the tags from any characters who don't need disambiguation, I guess. Since most entries still need work ANYWAY, no big whoop, we can get to them over the normal course of things.

It doesn't really solve the issue of the tags when we NEED them, though. As it is, I vote "franchise of origin" using 2~3-letter abbreviations as the starter to reduce the number of double-tags out there. "Armorhide (ARM)" and "Armorhide (CYB)". We're gonna HAVE to do SOME doubles, but less is better. That second one... go with allegiance first, if that's the same, instead go with a subgroup or such. "Sky High (G1) (Pretender)" "Sky High (G1) (Micromaster)". I'd keep the franchise tag in these instances, because you never know when we might get a UT Sky High.

There IS some repetition between US/UK-G1 and J-G1, I'd rather go "series" for consistency's sake. "Guzzle (G1)" "Guzzle (MF)".

I favor the method with the least number of exceptions to it.--[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:19, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

:Part of my protests that we're losing some context- but then I remember that same context comes form categories (G1 v Beast Era).
:I'm still not... delighted by this proposal (mostly because I think the automatic 'Generation' designations made it easier to put links up without checking for escoteric naming) but I'm pretty alright with it. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:28, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
::I still don't like it, and think it makes things needlessly complicated. I'd rather things be manageable than consistent, and I absolutely dread a (tag) system that has 40 different possibilities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:44, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
:::I don't get where this is supposedly "complicated". It's so ''incredibly'' cut-and-dried. "Complicated" is trying to decide which fiction carries more weight for what character, which version of the tag should be used for any random instance. "Series of origin" as the tag is '''simple'''. It's how the fandom refers to the characters as it is, as Steve-o has already noted. "What series did the character first appear in" is not a difficult question. Plus, I don't see how this is any different from how we handle the likes of G1 Grimlock or BW Cheetor.
:::My JOB is sorting through vast piles of data to present it as cleanly, simply and consistantly as possible. There is a big difference between "expansive" and "complicated". Yes, there are a lot of series. But we know where everyone debuted in our world. I can argue Trailbreaker was more important to Universe than G1. I'd rather not leave things up to that train of thought, espeically with how wonky the fiction is. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 04:23, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't see any reason why we should even have double tags at all. They're redundant. I mean, there's no reason why we can't have Sky High (Pretender), Sky High (Micromaster), and if we ever get a UT Sky High, we can just deal with that then. It's ''incredibly'' simple to move a page. Two clicks, and a line of text. That's it. It's really not worth designing a system based around what will happen in the future, when it's so simple to just deal with problems when they come up.

Disambiguation's supposed to be to distinguish between multiple pages that would otherwise have the same name. It's not a categorization system. It's not meant for people to be able to guess what each and every URL on the wiki is. Under no system will there never be "esoteric" naming, since things like Sky High are going to be problematic no matter what. I'm really not in favour of this idea that we have to have this long pre-approved list of disambiguation tags and everything ''must'' follow that. I'd far rather just keep it simple. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 03:21, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
: I agree we can probably get away with removing most of the tags, mostly because I find that infinitely preferable to the Giant Freakin' Tag List Of Doom. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 04:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

:I would just as soon have SOME form of FACT-based, inarguable and consistant "how to mark this" when articles would need disambigution to AT LEAST START WITH. Yes, there's going to be some exceptions. But there's LESS of them that way, less room for ambiguity. As for using only single tags and no acronyms of single-word titles, fine. "Sky High (Pretender)", fine, because series-of-origin does fail there (we're lucky this happened in the era of rampant subgroups). "Thunderblast (Decepticon)", fine (if we end up with a non-Cybertron Thunderblast, then they can be "Thunderblast (Douche Wars)" or whatever... we're lucky Hasbro, despite name-re-uses, is generally good at keeping the re-uses spread out across difference series or at least factions). "Guzzle (Masterforce)", fine. "Armorhide (Armada)", fine. "Ricochet (Timelines)", fine. Multi-word tiles, sure, compress them. "Stampy (BWN)". This is about as simple AND consistant as it can get. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 04:23, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
::I completely agree with everything you said. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 04:29, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

There are a few things going on in the page moves that I think have gotten not quite enough discussion, so I wanted to raise them here:

''RiD versus RID'' - As ItsWalky commented on [[Talk:Hot Shot (RID)]], I don't remember reaching a consensus on this. I strongly prefer the all-caps version, but every time I've brought it up, nobody has said anything in response. But now there are pages being moved. Anybody want to express an opinion on this?

''Preferred order of disambiguation'' - I noticed a couple of page moves such as ''(Scavenger (Universe Deluxe) moved to Scavenger (Deluxe))'' which I thought might be a bad choice. I don't think any article should be disambiguated by size class alone. Maybe it's just me, but I do not remember the size classes of a lot of my toys, and certainly don't remember the size classes for a lot of the toys I don't own. Seeing "Scavenger (Deluxe)" tells me absolutely nothing. First choice for disambiguating should be franchise of origin. If that fails, then using subgroup or faction instead will usually do the trick. If that doesn't help, I would almost prefer something like altmode to size class. Size class, in my opinion, should be a last resort, and used only in conjunction with another word (usually franchise). Hence, "universe deluxe" would be okay.

Reactions, anybody?

--[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 16:37, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
: The Constructicons are probably the only time we'll have such a huge problem with this. We can't do them by faction, color, altmode, name, what-have-you, and in the case of the Universe ones, we can't use their franchise either. They just keep makin' freakin' Constructicons, and none of them are the same guys, even though they're all identical. Deluxe by itself is kinda wonky, because not only were they sold in two-packs as an ultra, but, well... we just don't have very many things descriptive enough to distinguish them. I think we just need to admit that we can't have a single-word disambiguation parenthetical for everyone. (Though, actually, upon reflection, perhaps [[Bonecrusher (Target)]] may suffice.)
:In regards to RiD/RID, I'm opposite Steve, in that RID looks bleh to me, and much prefer RiD, and I'm wondering where this was discussed that we would change all the countless RiDs to RIDs. I'm open to changing my mind, and the people may overwhelm my opinion, but in the absence of this discussion, I want to know what's going on. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 17:00, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

:: (Target) works for me. It's a pretty easy identifier. Fuckin' Constructicons.
:: And I prefer (RiD) too. Something about (RID) just doesn't ''look'' right.
::--[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 17:25, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

:::With RID vs. RiD, that was... well, me not seeing anyone argue with Steve-o against it, and agreeing with the logic as he presented it. Sorry if I jumped the gun there.

:::On the other hand, I obviously agreed enough with what he said to go through with the moves in the first place. We don't have random case-drops in any other acronym, and if acronyms themselves don't ''work'' with random case-drops (except for something like, say, OpComb - two words smushed together, as noted above), then I think it ''should'' be all-caps.

:::I would personally favor consistent capitalization across acronyms over the possibility of it looking weird. I grant that we don't have any other three-word acronyms, though...

:::As to the Constructicons, I thought Universe Ultra was fine. I'm not entirely sure about store-origin as a possible tag, but I suppose my worry about it is in the same field as Steve's "would people remember what sizeclass this toy is?" issue; that is, if people would remember what store it came from. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 20:42, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

:::Yea, it would probably be easyest to go with (Target) and (Micromaster) tags, assuming we count the toys European Energon release to be the same guys.
::: On a similar note, how are we going to handle the Color Changers vs. the Stormtroopers and Aquaspeeders? Although the specs are copied almost word-for word from the European G1 specs, and the names were ''switched'', not just changed, and diffrent molds were used. Are the US and Euro characters with matching specs and bios the same guys, or are they diffrent characters alltogether? --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 21:13, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

One thing I feel can be confusing having the article of the predominate user of a name not have the series tags. When two or more characters share a name, it would probably be best for all to have the series tags, as it makes it easier to differeeniate between characters on searches. When there are only two uses of the name, it would be best to have the tagless page link to the more prominate character, which puts the other character one click away on the disambig template. For three or more uses, redirecting the tagless page to the disambig page would also keep any pages a minimum of one click away. Having the most prominate character out of three at the tagless entry would put the others two clicks away. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 02:33, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

==Infoboxes==
Should we have an infobox to unite all of the tangling information, like foreign naming, voice actors and continuity into one nice place? Something like [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimus_Prime this]? [[User:Singularity|Singularity]] 08:04, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

If we were to adopt a convention of that sort, the layout of the box would have to be drastically different than the one they use on Wikipedia. (For example, no motto because different versions of a character may have different mottos. No English (Japanese) name in the box's title because there are way more languages than two to cover. Etc., etc.) I think that we already provide all the important information in our "standard" character layout, though, so I don't really see the need for it. Did you have something specific in mind? If you can make a good case for it I'm sure people would be willing to consider it. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 16:58, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

==Citing sources==
I've lost track of the various places this has come up, but some of us have previously discussed how we can cite sources of information without interrupting the flow of an article's text. Derik has even experimented with some templates that could be used. Well, apparently the Wikimedia software has a built-in footnote mechanism, which I noticed somebody else using when I got back from my vacation. (But of course I've forgotten who it was and where they used it.) But anyway, here is the [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Footnotes|Wikipedia footnotes]] mechanism. It inserts subscripts in the text that link down to a list of references at the end of the article. I think this is probably unobtrusive enough for those of you who didn't like the idea of "breaking the fourth wall" by making citations in the article text. I recommend that we encourage use of this mechanism. Opinions? --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 18:28, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

:Frequently when reading this wiki, I ask myself, where did that info come from? Often, I'd like to go to the source and find out more info (i.e. curiosity). But I can't because there is no source listed, and I end up asking a question in the discussion page and getting ItsWalky mad at me. For example: [[Noble/Savage]]'s article says that Silverbolt was to be the traitor, and Megatron would absorb his wolf parts. I am 1) interested in learning more about that, and 2) wondering if this information is even true. Without citing sources, crazy claims like that are left to faith. I don't know how anyone could possibly know that information. Is this information that can be looked up and verified, or is this something the author heard three years ago and decided to write down? How accurate can that be? A footnote system, as is used in the Wikipedia, would go along way to solving these problems. AND, it's not like it's hard to do, Insert a couple pieces of code, and ''say where you got that information from!!'' --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 11:25, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

==First-line continuity statements==
We have had some brief discussions about how to format the italicized first-line statements that exist in most articles, and I'd like to see if anybody has ideas for making things simpler. Currently the format goes like "Sunstreaker is an Autobot in the G1 continuity." When more specific information is needed, we may say, for example, "Lander is an Autobot Pretender in the Masterforce portion of Generation 1 continuity."

One problem with this is that Generation 1 isn't a single continuity. "Continuity family" would really be more appropriate. Additionally, when we move beyond G1 into later franchises that are part of the same family (BW and Universe for example) we run into our old problem of not having a name for this "main" continuity.

If we were to simply drop the word "continuity" from the statements, it would solve a lot of problems, but I feel like that's not quite a complete solution. If the word continuity remains, I think "family" should probably be attached to it.

Naming this monster continuity family ''would'' be a complete solution to the problem, because then we could be pretty specific, but of course that is a big problem in itself. (Personally I think "Classic Continuity" would be self-explanatory and sufficiently non-fawning, although I could probably warm to simply "Original Continuity".)

So, if anybody else has issues with the current scheme, or ideas for improving it, I'd like to hear about them. Post away.

--[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 02:48, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

:I agree that "the Generation 1 continuity," singular, stuff isn't such a good thing. We could simply pluaralize it, make it "continuities" rather than adding "family," but I'm not sure how well that would work. I'd also like to suggest "continuity group" as a possible alternative phrase. As for a name for the Generation 1/Beast Era family well, how about just that? "Generation 1/Beast Era"? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 04:21, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

:: We're lucky that Aaron provided an "umbrella term" for the Unicron Trilogy, giving us something at least quasi-official. I'm loathe to suggest anything for any others for a variety of reasons (I'm not even wild about "Beast Era", in all honesty), other than if we DID need one that encapsulated everything "fictionally" pre-BW (G1, G2, MW, RM, etc) I'd vote "Great War". As for some giant umbrella term for the G1-through-BW vaguely-timeline/tree? Ugh. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 04:36, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I move we put off this sidcussion by 6 months until the second Transformers Elseworlds come out from IDW. I suspect that those two points of reference, whch START with G1, but are very much NOT G1 in ways other iterations of G1 ARE, will (witht he DD Joe/TF series) allow us to make a sound judgement on this issue.
:::Attemptign to define broad parameters just BEFORE we're about to get data that will cause ot to define/redefine just where those boundaries lie strieks me as either stupid or futile, possible both.
:::DD's Joe/TF, for instance, features elements from the classic Joe timeline- and Sigma Six. (Their 'Armada' lets say.) They've also stolen dome character design elements from Armada- but not much. I anticipate that SOME FUTURE IDW elseworld will completely shatter existing defintions of 'G1 or not' by mixing elements much more agressively.
:::(This doesnt' mean we can't ''talk'' about it. But I suggest holding off on a fina decision) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:50, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
::::...Sigma Six? Dare I ask what you think is Sigma Sixy about the DD crossovers? I know I'm going to regret it. (But seriously, about the name for G1/BW/BM, we need to bug Archer a bunch.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 05:20, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::Well, the BATs from Art of War #1 use the Sigma Six Sky BAT design. But that seems to be about it. - [[User:RolonBolon|RolonBolon]] 05:42, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

::::::I just said some elements! Bat's qualifies! (And, as we previously established, soem character designe lement in the previous series based on Armada stuff.)
::::::At this point,t hey're minor design touches. But we could end up with a myuch more... post-crisis series someday. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 06:50, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

=="Manga" vs. "Story Pages"==

This never really mattered to me until now, because we had so little info on it, but we have the stories for Battlestars, Operation Combination G2, etc listed as "manga" or sometimes "mini manga". This can be confusing, as save for a few mail-away mangas or instruction manual pack-in comics, these stories were told through "story pages", those full-color magazine spreads. They aren't manga, really. Now, before I went and editted the many pages that list things like "Battlestars manga", I wanted to get your thoughts. "Story pages" an acceptable term for this? --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 01:08, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

:That works for me. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:41, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
::Oh, also, yeah, I think it might just be your machine regarding the 250px images. I don't know what's up with that. Any rate, if you're gonna have a 300px "main" image of Sky Garry... I might suggest somehting better than what's there now, honestly. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:44, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay, if it's just my shotty computer then I'll just shrink the pics back down to 250. As long as they work for everybody else, that's what I care about. And between 10 story pages, a good shot of Sky Garry that isn't butchered by a page-crease is hard to come by. That head-shot is the best I could do, hoenstly. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 01:56, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
:There's nothing from a catalog, maybe? I don't exactly know which of the approximately 4889 plastic storage tubs I've got the old catalogs in to check... any chance of digging up his box-art? --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 02:14, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

*I have 3 catalogue advertisements for Sky Garry, but they all use the same super imposed pic of the toy. One of them has his box art, but it's thumbnail size. I uploaded it, but man is the quality something awful.

[[deleted]]

Still, if you think it's better than that saluting mugshot, I can swap it out. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 02:47, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

:... hm. Tough call. I tend to prefer main images to be at least waist-up when possible (but that's me)... hrm. Well, if we find something else later... --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 02:50, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

*Well, there IS this: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v461/TFAscans/?action=view&current=Battlestars1.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch10

But, as you can see, it's got a black line through it and story page text over parts. I could try and use that one, if you think it's the best of the crop. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 02:57, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

: Hm. Actually, I kinda like that shot in the corner of him punching a Galaman. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 03:20, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

*Alright, you think this'll work?:

[[Image:GarryGalaman1.jpg]]

--[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 03:37, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

==Site name change?==
We never actually went ahead and changed the site's name to the proper spelling: "Teletraan I". ...are we going to do that? I kinda think we should. Aurax hasn't made an edit in a long time, but I'm sure he can be contacted through [http://booknine.blogspot.com/ his website] to send somebody like Walky the PSD he used for the logo graphic so we can update it too. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 21:20, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
:Fixed! Shift-refresh yer browsers. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:07, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
::Thanks for that. No, I haven't edited much (too busy with the rest of life), but I do check in from time to time. Sorry I missed the request for this. Walky, Steve-O... if either of you want the original PSD and the fonts used, let me know and I'll fire them off to you. [[User:Aurax|Aurax]] 17:25, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I've looked through the various things I ''can'' change, and the site title does not appear to be one of them; as was noted by Sannse in [[Transformers_Wiki_talk:Community_Portal/Archive1|the first archive of this page]], it seems that the Wikia tech guys have to do that themselves. It shouldn't be very hard to figure out who should be contacted for that. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 02:27, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

== image problems ==

Am I the only one unable to see anything under the /images/ directory. All I get is a "cannot connect to server" error. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 02:43, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

It's not just you. Wikia sometimes has hosting/database glitches. It will probably pass in a day or two. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 04:11, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Fandom articles ==

I was kinda hoping that despite [[:Category:Fandom]], we'd manage to avoid articles on fandom-related things in favour of more useful content until a decent standard got figured out. Or at least only get the [[BotCon|really important stuff]] done. But I guess not. So right now there isn't really any standard as to what counts as notable enough for an article on a fandom-related topic, and maybe this is just me, but I'm not really sure that [[Chewed caramels|things that somebody]] said [[EI/AD|once on a.t.t.]] are significant enough to be worth noting here.

If it's just me, I'll shut up. Anyone else have any thoughts? --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 22:50, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I think the chewed caramel article should go. EI/AD I'm kinda borderline on. It was a pretty well established term within the internet fandom at one time, but, it's almost entirely unknown now and certainly not relevant to the contemporary fandom. It could arguably be included as a sort of "historical" thing, but, I dunno. Like I said, I'm not sure. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 23:09, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm with Brits and Steve on this. There's a lot more important things to be done... like, say, various unnamed actual canonical characters, on up to yes, BotCon and episode/comic articles. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:00, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Troo. And as I discovered, one person's 'popular in fandom' is another's 'strange and obscure', so I think if nothing else it's the sort of category we want to really consider before putting an article to. --[[User:Ratbat|Ratbat]] 01:17, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:By a similar argument, I kind of think the [[neon]] article isn't really called for, but on the other hand I personally find it amusing and don't mind it being there. [[Trukk not munky]] probably is notable, however. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 05:19, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

::Count me in as not seeing the need for anything beyond the most major of fandom notions, especially since some of these really didn't make it outside of ATT by much, if at all ("chewed caramels" and the "woobers" note on [[faceplate]] come to mind). Even TRUKK NOT MUNKY and GEEWUNNER might be skirting it a bit, although those two in particular might see a resurgence post-TF2007 movie. [[Neon]] seems to be more of a pet peeve than an actual reference point, but it's laughable enough to make it worthwhile.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 08:40, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

==Television series vs Cartoon==
At some point we will need to disambiguate the [[Scramble City]] OVA from the "toyline"/subline/toy category Scramble City. When we do, what suffix are we going to give that article? It's not a television series. We could just use (OVA), admittedly, but this is a good excuse for me to bring up something that's been bugging me for a while -- I think the suffix should be (cartoon), and I think all the "(television series)" articles should also be (cartoon). Cartoon is more succinct and more inclusive and is more parallel with "comic" (not "comic series"). It's also a lot easier to remember. I have noticed in the changelogs that I'm not the only person who can't remember "television series" as opposed to "animated series" or other similar constructions. We started out with cartoon, but then in Singularity's initial burst of doing things, before he left and came back, he moved a bunch of them to television series, and I never got around to moving them back, and now there is some inertia to the television series scheme. But I still prefer "cartoon". Anybody have an opinion one way or the other? --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 02:49, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:I prefer cartoon for the same reason. It's shorter and easier to remember, and there just isn't any advantage to using the longer one. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 05:57, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
::Thirded. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 05:59, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:::(Television series) "feels" right to me. As would (animated series), I think. (Cartoon), though of course accurate and having the advantage of being a single word, wouldn't. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 06:00, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:::To add a bit more, I think it's because (television series) or (animated series) seem more... encyclopedish... to me. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 06:04, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
::::I moved the articles to "television series" as that was what Wikipedia used. I don't particularly care about it now. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 06:17, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:I don't like "cartoon." Cartoons can be anything, from comic books to doodles to animated series. To some folks, the Marvel Comics are cartoons. I mean, heck, ''I'm'' a ''cartoonist'', that's my job, but I sure as hell don't animate anything. That's why I prefer "animated series" or "television series," just to be precise. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

==Toy Bio/Citiation==
Moved from [[Talk: Optimus Minor]]

I know I introduced a new concept with putting toy bio sections under fiction, but frequently, toy bio info contradicts other fictions, and therefore doesn't belong in the introductory paragraph. For axample, Minor's toy bio discribes him as having trouble controlling his savage animal side, but this is not displayed in the IDW comics, AND in IDW he is not a product of Megatron's cloning experiments. Is there an inherent incompatibility between a Toy Bio section and this wiki? Why is it bad to have a toy bio section? --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 15:05, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
:I agree with Crockalley: in the event where a character has a bio that doesn't match-up with his cartoon/comic portrayal, I think it is entirely appropriate to have separate section to cover that under the fiction heading. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 17:26, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

::Seconded. It makes sense when necessary. Also, sometimes bios have events that dont' belong int he bio proper. (Optimus Prime's battle int he Mirtonian constellation, for sinstance, does not belong in his main bio.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:55, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

:::Thirded. Also, can we be more aggressive about source-citing in the intro paragraph? Whenever an intro is longer than a sentence or two, I start to doubt its relevance. For instance, I'll see a bunch of suspiciously-highly-detailed info about some Nebulan's personality and history, and I'll wonder: Did this come from a Marvel TFU profile, a DW profile, an actual story, a tech-spec bio, what? As a rule, I think that ANY piece of info that only exists in one place should be confined to its continuity of origin. But, if that's too extreme a policy, then there should be citations of some sort within the intro. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 18:58, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
::::I agree. I often find myself wondering where a lot of this information comes from. If it's not under a heading in the fiction section, there's often no clues as to the information's origin. --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 19:12, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::I think that, unless we have another contradictory source, the assumption is that information is universal, which feels right to me. But getting more strict about inclusing a 'sources cited' section might not be bad. (Not necessarily footnoted, in most case that level fo distinction is unnecessary.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:42, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

::::::And my assumption regarding TF fiction is that if something is stated in only one continuity, then it's not necessarily applicable to the others. It ''can'' be, but presenting it as though it's universal limits the possibilities of all the other continuities. For instance, [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]]. His intro-paragraph presents the backstabbing-opportunist-who-everybody-hates-and-distrusts aspect of his tech-spec bio as though it applies universally. Yet there's little to no sign of that in his cartoon portrayal. He MIGHT be blackmailing other 'Cons "off-camera," but he could also be as straightforward as he seems. In fact, the "Animated continuity" section has to specifically mention he "only infrequently exhibit[ed] any traits that could be consider[ed] to be in line with his tech spec." So if it wasn't universal, why was it in the intro? I think tech-spec bios should get their own "Fiction" subsection, and for that matter, comic profiles should be separately called out within their continuities. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 20:14, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

::::::In reply to you, Derik: If the info is under the heading "Marvel Comics", that's self explanatory. But there's a lot of info that's not under a heading, and in those cases, I think it would be appropriate to indicate a source. --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 20:51, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

:::: I think the best approach is this: If there is only one real portrayle of a character (say Bumblebee) that goes at the begining. If there are different portrayles given fairly equal establishment (say Blaster, Comic vrs. Toon) then there should just be a note up top and appropriate character profiles under the respective fiction sections. If (as with OP Minor here) there's one Major fictive portrayle (IDW where there's an actual story) but then one minor that disagrees (a few techspec lines) the Major should go at the top, and then in the fiction section should be a seperate Toy Bio entry with the differnt persona. Would that make sense? [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 23:47, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::I agree fully with this. A one-sentence opening for a character page just... looks bad if there's anything that could actually fill it. Besides, it'd hardly be the first time fiction and bio didn't line up completely. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 23:56, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::Agreed --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 00:09, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

::::::It sounds like we have a fundamental difference in taste. Not only does a short opening not look bad to me, but like I said above, the longer it is, the less I trust it. I quickly begin to suspect that it's either paraphrased from a comic profile (which seem in most cases apocryphal to the actual stories) or cobbled together from multiple continuities into a whole that doesn't really exist in any (see Soundwave again). As for OpMinor in particular: Since he gets actual characterization in only one continuity, I don't think he needs an intro at ALL. Just weave his personality traits into his "IDW Comics" bio. The only reason I can think of for an intro to even ''exist'' is if the story-bio section is too long or complicated to expect an average Wiki-surfer to read. But that's certainly not the case here, and in the places where it ''is'' the case (such as, say, [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]), there are enough universal elements supported by all continuities to construct an unobjectionable, relevant intro. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 03:13, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I see where you're coming from, you want to avoid character bios that have ca jumbled continuity. That works fine for '''most''' characters, but a character with multiple incarnations... how the hell do you write a bio without mixing continuities?
:::::::Look at [[Springer]]. He's a wise-cracking Han Solo type who thinks of hismelf a a modern knight in the cartoon, an angsty self-doubting Wrecker in the Marvel Uk comics, and a confident but non-joking team leader in Dreamwave. In the cartoon he frequently uses a sword or lance, in the Marvel comic he's a gun-wielder, in Dreamwave he actually uses the jumping abilities his bios talked about but he never used.
:::::::Where does the truth of thie character lie? The bio here tries to be as broad as possible, mentioning all hsi abilities, and putting his different characterizations into a context that makes them not seem like total contradictions, but just two sides of the same coin.
:::::::I argue that the entire '''point''' of the top bios is the give that at-a-glance no-particular-continuity view of a character. If a reader wants to knwo all the introcacies, they can read the entire entry. The point of the introduction is to '''introduce'''. And further- whu ''should'' the introduction '''choose''' one continuity to favor aboce others? "Well, there's a wide degree of variation, but this is the RIGHT one."

:::::::Also? Soundwave WAS a traitorous backstabber in almost every continuity except the sunbow cartoon and the Kids Stuff storybooks. You can argue tyhat the cartoon was so priminent that maybe the backstabber aspect of his personality shouldn't be given such a front-and-center highlighting in the introduction, I might even ''agree'' with you, but it's only a 'glaring inaccuracy' if you hold the cartoon up above all other continuities. In the UK, Soudnwave became leader of the Decepticons for a time based entirely on his worst examnple of backstabbery. That part of his personality deserves highlighting just as much as his 'loyal spearcarrier' side. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:59, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

::::::::Certainly I don't think the intros should ''favor'' one continuity over the others. Like I said, the only information that I think properly belongs in an intro is that which can be supported universally. For instance, "Shockwave is a cold, unemotional, high-ranking Decepticon who never took on a Terran alt-mode." Those statements are all evidenced by his portrayals across continuities. Since I'm in favor of keeping the intros as brief as possible, I'm happy to stop there. But if more is really called for, then I think distinctions have to be made. "Across continuities, he has been portrayed in distinctly different ways: As hyper-logical and obsessed with attaining leadership of the Earth-bound Decepticons; as steadfastly loyal to Megatron and content to maintain stewardship over Cybertron for him; or as a seemingly benevolent but iron-fisted dictator who ruled a peaceful Cybertron for ages and considered the still-battling Earth-bound TFs barbaric." This goes hand-in-hand with my earlier call for better citation. That text could easily be accompanied with footnotes or sidenotes. Or even be rewritten to include mentions of which continuities the various portrayals came from. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 06:56, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::Actually, Shockwave took a Terran alt-mode in Hearts of Steel. And probably the DW Joe crossover, too. So we're down to "Shockwave is a cold, unemotional, high-ranking Decepticon." Except sometimes he's called Shockblast. And I bet you could make the point that the cartoon didn't really convey the "cold and unemotional" aspect very well, and to state it in the top could be considered kind of misleading, so we're really down to only "Shock*." Which is really ridiculous. Are we going to be pairing down everyone's bios as new continuities are established which don't touch on every single point of a character's personality? IDW's given Dogfight lines, but they haven't shown that he's quick to anger yet. Should we dump half his profile section until they get to that part? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:57, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

: I understand where you're coming from, wanting it to be absolutely clear where a character's personality info is from, but at the same time I '''REALLY''' dislike the idea of doing away with the characterization paragraph intro. I think it's probably most likely that folks will look up a character to find out what they were like, that first techspec bio style paragraph, as much as what they did (their fiction biography). It's certainly why I'd look up an obscure character. If you hide that info or obfuscate it by diffusing it throughout the fiction's chronicle of events you make the wiki a lot less useful and helpful in many situations.

:Really characters with multiple conflicting portrayles are still BY FAR a minority across the huge spectrum of TF fiction. I see no problem in treating them as what they are: Special Cases, giving them a note to that effect, and seperate characterization profiles at the start of each fiction section. This way, the ones it is an issue for are delt with and the majority, for whom it poses no problem, maintain the more attractive and useful profile first style. [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 10:39, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I have a few comments to add to this discussion:
*This conversation probably should have been moved to [[Transformers Wiki Talk:Community Portal|the community portal's talk page]] because it concerns site-wide policies. I only randomly decided to look at it because I'm bored and it seemed like a lot of people had been posting to it. It it were posted to the portal, though, I would have known it was important.
*Toy bio information should absolutely be allowed under "Fiction".
*I wish nearly everything on the Wiki were cited, but that would be a lot of work, and also most of the editors aside from me don't like the idea of "breaking the fourth wall" by giving citations.
*I like that our character pages have an intro, and I like that it is a continuity-nonspecific overview of the character's personality. As Walky describes, we can't really limit the intro to things which we know are correct in all continuities, because there's always going to be some "minor" universe where it isn't true and you end up with nothing to say at all.
*On the other hand, if some portrayals are ''vastly'' different than others, then (as the discussion seems to be settling on) I think there should be some sort of statement of that before the table of contents. I don't know how to do that without breaking the fourth wall. I also don't care. But some of you do.
*Like Jackpot, I don't like it when the intros get long, although my threshold is higher than his. A three paragraph "overview" is excessive except for especially notable characters ([[Optimus Primal]] and [[Megatron (BW)]] both have long, but appropriate introductions). I don't mind an intro which is only two sentences. If that's all there is that can really be said without pushing into inaccurate continuity-melding, then so be it. The intro for [[Omega Supreme (G1)]], for example, seems quite sufficient to me.
*There's no reason that a "Fiction" subsection can't start with a personality overview instead of diving right into a list of events in those cases where a separate overview is needed.
--[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 02:53, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

== Currency ==
How do people feel about requiring that any instances of price listings include a clarifier of which currency is being used? In practice, all this would mean is changing the instances of ''$'' to ''US$'', just to distinguish between all of those other countries that also use dollars. Also, by giving a clear point of reference, it mean we avoid the cumbersome silliness of potentially listing any prices in every major currency. Triganic Pu, anyone? --[[User:Sofaman|Sofaman]] 08:41, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

:Sounds reasonable to me. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 16:59, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
::Yeah. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 17:01, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

:::That's good then - does this proposal get added to the Style Guide, or what happens? --[[User:Sofaman|Sofaman]] 00:12, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

:::To clarify (well, add) - for the majority of toys the above is fine, but we should probably also have a Yen standard for Japan-only toys, and perhaps Pounds Sterling for Euro-only releases (since that's pretty much the only late G1/G2-era European currency still in existence)? --[[User:Sofaman|Sofaman]] 07:40, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

One thing I awlays wanted to incorporate into the toy entires, though I have yet to figure out a good way HOW, is the original prices for the toys. While from the BW (and posisbly G2) era on this is not so difficult, but early G1 espeically, prices were all over the fucking map on even a single piece. I have a big list of them (even bigger if Karl ever sends me the images from their collection, thankfully they took photos of EVERYTHING), but how to incorporate them... whoo. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 21:36, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

:We could just list whatever the Recommended Retail Price was, couldn't we? --[[User:Sofaman|Sofaman]] 00:12, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

:: Retailers made up MSRPs all the damn time. Unreliable and inaccurate. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 02:16, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

::: Didn't Hasbro issue its own RRPs though? I seem to recall they did here in Australia - was that practice different in other countries? I don't dispute that having all sorts of different pricing makes it more confusing, but if there is a fairly standard RRP, that at least would give a 'ball park' for each figure. --[[User:Sofaman|Sofaman]] 07:40, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

:::: We could use the KayBee 'original prices'! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 10:43, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::Why not? The discussion just seems to be about finding the least-inaccurate or most-agreeable 'standard' for base G1 pricing. (Help me out if I've missed a joke, BTW - we don't have KayBee in Australia) --[[User:Sofaman|Sofaman]] 11:45, 10 October 2006 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Bulk

2006-10-10T09:22:30Z

Sofaman:

What's the source on this? It's probably a TF comic I haven't read (which is a fair few), but I'd love to know.<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2006-10-10T07:40:18Z

Sofaman: /* Currency */

==Archives==
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive1|Archive1]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive2|Archive2]]

==Control art==
There's been a lot of control art thrown up recently -- try [Megatron (BW)] for example -- but I'm not sure how to treat it yet. I certainly don't think it belongs up at the top of the article with the bios, and it would probably work better down near the toy section, but that area's going to be swamped with toy pics already. (I'm also concerned with the ethics of putting them all up on the wiki. Placing the entire contents of the BW Reborn DVD on the wiki can't possibly fall under Fair Use.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:35, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
:I figured it was fair game since there certainly seem to be a fair amount of comic scans, Genesis scans, DVD screenshots, as well as having Dan Khanna and Guido Guidi art posted. There's far more on the Golden Disc, but the only thing that really seemed needed was the toy art. And true, I had no clue where it would fit, so it can be moved to wherever.--MCRG
::It's a matter of proportion. There's a difference between scanning a panel from a comic book for an entry and having the entire comic book issue scanned, page-by-page. This is a simple distinction. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 23:49, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
:::I'm not putting up the entire disc.--MCRG
::I think putting up every single piece of control art from the disc would be very different, fair-use wise, than is having up a few scattered comic panels and character portraits. Even if there is more to the disc than just the control art. So I definitely do not think they should all be uploaded to this Wiki. I'm also not sure what the point of uploading them here is... They are neat, of course, but we aren't really envisioning this Wiki as a repository of every single piece of Transformers information ever. It's a TF encyclopedia, basically. I think having an article called [[control art]] would be a great idea, and could include a few examples. And we can include control art for some of the characters' toys in the character articles if there's something especially interesting about it, like the spark figure on TM2 Megatron. But including all of them is, I think, neither fair use nor useful. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 01:18, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
:::Is this on an archive somewhere? Create a Control Art article, upload a few examples, and put a link to the off-site online archive.
:::If it's NOT online soemwhere, maybe you have to ask yourself- in an era when '''everything''' tf-related is online, why isn't this? Possibly peopel decided it was a tad ''gauche'' to upload a big chunk of the exclusive content of a comercial product while it was still being widely sold.
:::And even if ti wasn't- this wiki is not an archive for that kind of thing. We dont' have everyon'es box art up, or their tech-specs, or anythign else relatign to them. In fact, we tend to fall back on box art just when there's no other images of characters. On tech-specs for content when the character has no media appearances to guide us.
:::Control art is interesting- for what it is. It's appropriate to show off for, like, Megatron and Dinobot, where it shows off features that didnt' make it into the final toys. The wiki is not an archive.
:::That said, the internet is full of archives. I love the control art. Go put it up at one of the archives. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:15, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

::: I basically agree with everything Steve-O said. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 02:38, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

==Franchise Designations, part three==
Since part 2's gotten huge...

I'm fine with the idea of dropping the tags from any characters who don't need disambiguation, I guess. Since most entries still need work ANYWAY, no big whoop, we can get to them over the normal course of things.

It doesn't really solve the issue of the tags when we NEED them, though. As it is, I vote "franchise of origin" using 2~3-letter abbreviations as the starter to reduce the number of double-tags out there. "Armorhide (ARM)" and "Armorhide (CYB)". We're gonna HAVE to do SOME doubles, but less is better. That second one... go with allegiance first, if that's the same, instead go with a subgroup or such. "Sky High (G1) (Pretender)" "Sky High (G1) (Micromaster)". I'd keep the franchise tag in these instances, because you never know when we might get a UT Sky High.

There IS some repetition between US/UK-G1 and J-G1, I'd rather go "series" for consistency's sake. "Guzzle (G1)" "Guzzle (MF)".

I favor the method with the least number of exceptions to it.--[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:19, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

:Part of my protests that we're losing some context- but then I remember that same context comes form categories (G1 v Beast Era).
:I'm still not... delighted by this proposal (mostly because I think the automatic 'Generation' designations made it easier to put links up without checking for escoteric naming) but I'm pretty alright with it. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:28, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
::I still don't like it, and think it makes things needlessly complicated. I'd rather things be manageable than consistent, and I absolutely dread a (tag) system that has 40 different possibilities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:44, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
:::I don't get where this is supposedly "complicated". It's so ''incredibly'' cut-and-dried. "Complicated" is trying to decide which fiction carries more weight for what character, which version of the tag should be used for any random instance. "Series of origin" as the tag is '''simple'''. It's how the fandom refers to the characters as it is, as Steve-o has already noted. "What series did the character first appear in" is not a difficult question. Plus, I don't see how this is any different from how we handle the likes of G1 Grimlock or BW Cheetor.
:::My JOB is sorting through vast piles of data to present it as cleanly, simply and consistantly as possible. There is a big difference between "expansive" and "complicated". Yes, there are a lot of series. But we know where everyone debuted in our world. I can argue Trailbreaker was more important to Universe than G1. I'd rather not leave things up to that train of thought, espeically with how wonky the fiction is. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 04:23, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't see any reason why we should even have double tags at all. They're redundant. I mean, there's no reason why we can't have Sky High (Pretender), Sky High (Micromaster), and if we ever get a UT Sky High, we can just deal with that then. It's ''incredibly'' simple to move a page. Two clicks, and a line of text. That's it. It's really not worth designing a system based around what will happen in the future, when it's so simple to just deal with problems when they come up.

Disambiguation's supposed to be to distinguish between multiple pages that would otherwise have the same name. It's not a categorization system. It's not meant for people to be able to guess what each and every URL on the wiki is. Under no system will there never be "esoteric" naming, since things like Sky High are going to be problematic no matter what. I'm really not in favour of this idea that we have to have this long pre-approved list of disambiguation tags and everything ''must'' follow that. I'd far rather just keep it simple. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 03:21, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
: I agree we can probably get away with removing most of the tags, mostly because I find that infinitely preferable to the Giant Freakin' Tag List Of Doom. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 04:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

:I would just as soon have SOME form of FACT-based, inarguable and consistant "how to mark this" when articles would need disambigution to AT LEAST START WITH. Yes, there's going to be some exceptions. But there's LESS of them that way, less room for ambiguity. As for using only single tags and no acronyms of single-word titles, fine. "Sky High (Pretender)", fine, because series-of-origin does fail there (we're lucky this happened in the era of rampant subgroups). "Thunderblast (Decepticon)", fine (if we end up with a non-Cybertron Thunderblast, then they can be "Thunderblast (Douche Wars)" or whatever... we're lucky Hasbro, despite name-re-uses, is generally good at keeping the re-uses spread out across difference series or at least factions). "Guzzle (Masterforce)", fine. "Armorhide (Armada)", fine. "Ricochet (Timelines)", fine. Multi-word tiles, sure, compress them. "Stampy (BWN)". This is about as simple AND consistant as it can get. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 04:23, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
::I completely agree with everything you said. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 04:29, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

There are a few things going on in the page moves that I think have gotten not quite enough discussion, so I wanted to raise them here:

''RiD versus RID'' - As ItsWalky commented on [[Talk:Hot Shot (RID)]], I don't remember reaching a consensus on this. I strongly prefer the all-caps version, but every time I've brought it up, nobody has said anything in response. But now there are pages being moved. Anybody want to express an opinion on this?

''Preferred order of disambiguation'' - I noticed a couple of page moves such as ''(Scavenger (Universe Deluxe) moved to Scavenger (Deluxe))'' which I thought might be a bad choice. I don't think any article should be disambiguated by size class alone. Maybe it's just me, but I do not remember the size classes of a lot of my toys, and certainly don't remember the size classes for a lot of the toys I don't own. Seeing "Scavenger (Deluxe)" tells me absolutely nothing. First choice for disambiguating should be franchise of origin. If that fails, then using subgroup or faction instead will usually do the trick. If that doesn't help, I would almost prefer something like altmode to size class. Size class, in my opinion, should be a last resort, and used only in conjunction with another word (usually franchise). Hence, "universe deluxe" would be okay.

Reactions, anybody?

--[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 16:37, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
: The Constructicons are probably the only time we'll have such a huge problem with this. We can't do them by faction, color, altmode, name, what-have-you, and in the case of the Universe ones, we can't use their franchise either. They just keep makin' freakin' Constructicons, and none of them are the same guys, even though they're all identical. Deluxe by itself is kinda wonky, because not only were they sold in two-packs as an ultra, but, well... we just don't have very many things descriptive enough to distinguish them. I think we just need to admit that we can't have a single-word disambiguation parenthetical for everyone. (Though, actually, upon reflection, perhaps [[Bonecrusher (Target)]] may suffice.)
:In regards to RiD/RID, I'm opposite Steve, in that RID looks bleh to me, and much prefer RiD, and I'm wondering where this was discussed that we would change all the countless RiDs to RIDs. I'm open to changing my mind, and the people may overwhelm my opinion, but in the absence of this discussion, I want to know what's going on. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 17:00, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

:: (Target) works for me. It's a pretty easy identifier. Fuckin' Constructicons.
:: And I prefer (RiD) too. Something about (RID) just doesn't ''look'' right.
::--[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 17:25, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

:::With RID vs. RiD, that was... well, me not seeing anyone argue with Steve-o against it, and agreeing with the logic as he presented it. Sorry if I jumped the gun there.

:::On the other hand, I obviously agreed enough with what he said to go through with the moves in the first place. We don't have random case-drops in any other acronym, and if acronyms themselves don't ''work'' with random case-drops (except for something like, say, OpComb - two words smushed together, as noted above), then I think it ''should'' be all-caps.

:::I would personally favor consistent capitalization across acronyms over the possibility of it looking weird. I grant that we don't have any other three-word acronyms, though...

:::As to the Constructicons, I thought Universe Ultra was fine. I'm not entirely sure about store-origin as a possible tag, but I suppose my worry about it is in the same field as Steve's "would people remember what sizeclass this toy is?" issue; that is, if people would remember what store it came from. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 20:42, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

:::Yea, it would probably be easyest to go with (Target) and (Micromaster) tags, assuming we count the toys European Energon release to be the same guys.
::: On a similar note, how are we going to handle the Color Changers vs. the Stormtroopers and Aquaspeeders? Although the specs are copied almost word-for word from the European G1 specs, and the names were ''switched'', not just changed, and diffrent molds were used. Are the US and Euro characters with matching specs and bios the same guys, or are they diffrent characters alltogether? --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 21:13, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

One thing I feel can be confusing having the article of the predominate user of a name not have the series tags. When two or more characters share a name, it would probably be best for all to have the series tags, as it makes it easier to differeeniate between characters on searches. When there are only two uses of the name, it would be best to have the tagless page link to the more prominate character, which puts the other character one click away on the disambig template. For three or more uses, redirecting the tagless page to the disambig page would also keep any pages a minimum of one click away. Having the most prominate character out of three at the tagless entry would put the others two clicks away. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 02:33, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

==Infoboxes==
Should we have an infobox to unite all of the tangling information, like foreign naming, voice actors and continuity into one nice place? Something like [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimus_Prime this]? [[User:Singularity|Singularity]] 08:04, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

If we were to adopt a convention of that sort, the layout of the box would have to be drastically different than the one they use on Wikipedia. (For example, no motto because different versions of a character may have different mottos. No English (Japanese) name in the box's title because there are way more languages than two to cover. Etc., etc.) I think that we already provide all the important information in our "standard" character layout, though, so I don't really see the need for it. Did you have something specific in mind? If you can make a good case for it I'm sure people would be willing to consider it. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 16:58, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

==Citing sources==
I've lost track of the various places this has come up, but some of us have previously discussed how we can cite sources of information without interrupting the flow of an article's text. Derik has even experimented with some templates that could be used. Well, apparently the Wikimedia software has a built-in footnote mechanism, which I noticed somebody else using when I got back from my vacation. (But of course I've forgotten who it was and where they used it.) But anyway, here is the [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Footnotes|Wikipedia footnotes]] mechanism. It inserts subscripts in the text that link down to a list of references at the end of the article. I think this is probably unobtrusive enough for those of you who didn't like the idea of "breaking the fourth wall" by making citations in the article text. I recommend that we encourage use of this mechanism. Opinions? --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 18:28, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

:Frequently when reading this wiki, I ask myself, where did that info come from? Often, I'd like to go to the source and find out more info (i.e. curiosity). But I can't because there is no source listed, and I end up asking a question in the discussion page and getting ItsWalky mad at me. For example: [[Noble/Savage]]'s article says that Silverbolt was to be the traitor, and Megatron would absorb his wolf parts. I am 1) interested in learning more about that, and 2) wondering if this information is even true. Without citing sources, crazy claims like that are left to faith. I don't know how anyone could possibly know that information. Is this information that can be looked up and verified, or is this something the author heard three years ago and decided to write down? How accurate can that be? A footnote system, as is used in the Wikipedia, would go along way to solving these problems. AND, it's not like it's hard to do, Insert a couple pieces of code, and ''say where you got that information from!!'' --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 11:25, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

==First-line continuity statements==
We have had some brief discussions about how to format the italicized first-line statements that exist in most articles, and I'd like to see if anybody has ideas for making things simpler. Currently the format goes like "Sunstreaker is an Autobot in the G1 continuity." When more specific information is needed, we may say, for example, "Lander is an Autobot Pretender in the Masterforce portion of Generation 1 continuity."

One problem with this is that Generation 1 isn't a single continuity. "Continuity family" would really be more appropriate. Additionally, when we move beyond G1 into later franchises that are part of the same family (BW and Universe for example) we run into our old problem of not having a name for this "main" continuity.

If we were to simply drop the word "continuity" from the statements, it would solve a lot of problems, but I feel like that's not quite a complete solution. If the word continuity remains, I think "family" should probably be attached to it.

Naming this monster continuity family ''would'' be a complete solution to the problem, because then we could be pretty specific, but of course that is a big problem in itself. (Personally I think "Classic Continuity" would be self-explanatory and sufficiently non-fawning, although I could probably warm to simply "Original Continuity".)

So, if anybody else has issues with the current scheme, or ideas for improving it, I'd like to hear about them. Post away.

--[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 02:48, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

:I agree that "the Generation 1 continuity," singular, stuff isn't such a good thing. We could simply pluaralize it, make it "continuities" rather than adding "family," but I'm not sure how well that would work. I'd also like to suggest "continuity group" as a possible alternative phrase. As for a name for the Generation 1/Beast Era family well, how about just that? "Generation 1/Beast Era"? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 04:21, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

:: We're lucky that Aaron provided an "umbrella term" for the Unicron Trilogy, giving us something at least quasi-official. I'm loathe to suggest anything for any others for a variety of reasons (I'm not even wild about "Beast Era", in all honesty), other than if we DID need one that encapsulated everything "fictionally" pre-BW (G1, G2, MW, RM, etc) I'd vote "Great War". As for some giant umbrella term for the G1-through-BW vaguely-timeline/tree? Ugh. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 04:36, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I move we put off this sidcussion by 6 months until the second Transformers Elseworlds come out from IDW. I suspect that those two points of reference, whch START with G1, but are very much NOT G1 in ways other iterations of G1 ARE, will (witht he DD Joe/TF series) allow us to make a sound judgement on this issue.
:::Attemptign to define broad parameters just BEFORE we're about to get data that will cause ot to define/redefine just where those boundaries lie strieks me as either stupid or futile, possible both.
:::DD's Joe/TF, for instance, features elements from the classic Joe timeline- and Sigma Six. (Their 'Armada' lets say.) They've also stolen dome character design elements from Armada- but not much. I anticipate that SOME FUTURE IDW elseworld will completely shatter existing defintions of 'G1 or not' by mixing elements much more agressively.
:::(This doesnt' mean we can't ''talk'' about it. But I suggest holding off on a fina decision) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:50, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
::::...Sigma Six? Dare I ask what you think is Sigma Sixy about the DD crossovers? I know I'm going to regret it. (But seriously, about the name for G1/BW/BM, we need to bug Archer a bunch.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 05:20, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::Well, the BATs from Art of War #1 use the Sigma Six Sky BAT design. But that seems to be about it. - [[User:RolonBolon|RolonBolon]] 05:42, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

::::::I just said some elements! Bat's qualifies! (And, as we previously established, soem character designe lement in the previous series based on Armada stuff.)
::::::At this point,t hey're minor design touches. But we could end up with a myuch more... post-crisis series someday. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 06:50, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

=="Manga" vs. "Story Pages"==

This never really mattered to me until now, because we had so little info on it, but we have the stories for Battlestars, Operation Combination G2, etc listed as "manga" or sometimes "mini manga". This can be confusing, as save for a few mail-away mangas or instruction manual pack-in comics, these stories were told through "story pages", those full-color magazine spreads. They aren't manga, really. Now, before I went and editted the many pages that list things like "Battlestars manga", I wanted to get your thoughts. "Story pages" an acceptable term for this? --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 01:08, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

:That works for me. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:41, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
::Oh, also, yeah, I think it might just be your machine regarding the 250px images. I don't know what's up with that. Any rate, if you're gonna have a 300px "main" image of Sky Garry... I might suggest somehting better than what's there now, honestly. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:44, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay, if it's just my shotty computer then I'll just shrink the pics back down to 250. As long as they work for everybody else, that's what I care about. And between 10 story pages, a good shot of Sky Garry that isn't butchered by a page-crease is hard to come by. That head-shot is the best I could do, hoenstly. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 01:56, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
:There's nothing from a catalog, maybe? I don't exactly know which of the approximately 4889 plastic storage tubs I've got the old catalogs in to check... any chance of digging up his box-art? --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 02:14, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

*I have 3 catalogue advertisements for Sky Garry, but they all use the same super imposed pic of the toy. One of them has his box art, but it's thumbnail size. I uploaded it, but man is the quality something awful.

[[deleted]]

Still, if you think it's better than that saluting mugshot, I can swap it out. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 02:47, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

:... hm. Tough call. I tend to prefer main images to be at least waist-up when possible (but that's me)... hrm. Well, if we find something else later... --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 02:50, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

*Well, there IS this: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v461/TFAscans/?action=view&current=Battlestars1.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch10

But, as you can see, it's got a black line through it and story page text over parts. I could try and use that one, if you think it's the best of the crop. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 02:57, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

: Hm. Actually, I kinda like that shot in the corner of him punching a Galaman. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 03:20, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

*Alright, you think this'll work?:

[[Image:GarryGalaman1.jpg]]

--[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 03:37, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

==Site name change?==
We never actually went ahead and changed the site's name to the proper spelling: "Teletraan I". ...are we going to do that? I kinda think we should. Aurax hasn't made an edit in a long time, but I'm sure he can be contacted through [http://booknine.blogspot.com/ his website] to send somebody like Walky the PSD he used for the logo graphic so we can update it too. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 21:20, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
:Fixed! Shift-refresh yer browsers. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:07, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
::Thanks for that. No, I haven't edited much (too busy with the rest of life), but I do check in from time to time. Sorry I missed the request for this. Walky, Steve-O... if either of you want the original PSD and the fonts used, let me know and I'll fire them off to you. [[User:Aurax|Aurax]] 17:25, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I've looked through the various things I ''can'' change, and the site title does not appear to be one of them; as was noted by Sannse in [[Transformers_Wiki_talk:Community_Portal/Archive1|the first archive of this page]], it seems that the Wikia tech guys have to do that themselves. It shouldn't be very hard to figure out who should be contacted for that. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 02:27, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

== image problems ==

Am I the only one unable to see anything under the /images/ directory. All I get is a "cannot connect to server" error. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 02:43, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

It's not just you. Wikia sometimes has hosting/database glitches. It will probably pass in a day or two. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 04:11, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Fandom articles ==

I was kinda hoping that despite [[:Category:Fandom]], we'd manage to avoid articles on fandom-related things in favour of more useful content until a decent standard got figured out. Or at least only get the [[BotCon|really important stuff]] done. But I guess not. So right now there isn't really any standard as to what counts as notable enough for an article on a fandom-related topic, and maybe this is just me, but I'm not really sure that [[Chewed caramels|things that somebody]] said [[EI/AD|once on a.t.t.]] are significant enough to be worth noting here.

If it's just me, I'll shut up. Anyone else have any thoughts? --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 22:50, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I think the chewed caramel article should go. EI/AD I'm kinda borderline on. It was a pretty well established term within the internet fandom at one time, but, it's almost entirely unknown now and certainly not relevant to the contemporary fandom. It could arguably be included as a sort of "historical" thing, but, I dunno. Like I said, I'm not sure. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 23:09, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm with Brits and Steve on this. There's a lot more important things to be done... like, say, various unnamed actual canonical characters, on up to yes, BotCon and episode/comic articles. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:00, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Troo. And as I discovered, one person's 'popular in fandom' is another's 'strange and obscure', so I think if nothing else it's the sort of category we want to really consider before putting an article to. --[[User:Ratbat|Ratbat]] 01:17, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:By a similar argument, I kind of think the [[neon]] article isn't really called for, but on the other hand I personally find it amusing and don't mind it being there. [[Trukk not munky]] probably is notable, however. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 05:19, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

::Count me in as not seeing the need for anything beyond the most major of fandom notions, especially since some of these really didn't make it outside of ATT by much, if at all ("chewed caramels" and the "woobers" note on [[faceplate]] come to mind). Even TRUKK NOT MUNKY and GEEWUNNER might be skirting it a bit, although those two in particular might see a resurgence post-TF2007 movie. [[Neon]] seems to be more of a pet peeve than an actual reference point, but it's laughable enough to make it worthwhile.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 08:40, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

==Television series vs Cartoon==
At some point we will need to disambiguate the [[Scramble City]] OVA from the "toyline"/subline/toy category Scramble City. When we do, what suffix are we going to give that article? It's not a television series. We could just use (OVA), admittedly, but this is a good excuse for me to bring up something that's been bugging me for a while -- I think the suffix should be (cartoon), and I think all the "(television series)" articles should also be (cartoon). Cartoon is more succinct and more inclusive and is more parallel with "comic" (not "comic series"). It's also a lot easier to remember. I have noticed in the changelogs that I'm not the only person who can't remember "television series" as opposed to "animated series" or other similar constructions. We started out with cartoon, but then in Singularity's initial burst of doing things, before he left and came back, he moved a bunch of them to television series, and I never got around to moving them back, and now there is some inertia to the television series scheme. But I still prefer "cartoon". Anybody have an opinion one way or the other? --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 02:49, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:I prefer cartoon for the same reason. It's shorter and easier to remember, and there just isn't any advantage to using the longer one. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 05:57, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
::Thirded. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 05:59, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:::(Television series) "feels" right to me. As would (animated series), I think. (Cartoon), though of course accurate and having the advantage of being a single word, wouldn't. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 06:00, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:::To add a bit more, I think it's because (television series) or (animated series) seem more... encyclopedish... to me. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 06:04, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
::::I moved the articles to "television series" as that was what Wikipedia used. I don't particularly care about it now. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 06:17, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:I don't like "cartoon." Cartoons can be anything, from comic books to doodles to animated series. To some folks, the Marvel Comics are cartoons. I mean, heck, ''I'm'' a ''cartoonist'', that's my job, but I sure as hell don't animate anything. That's why I prefer "animated series" or "television series," just to be precise. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

==Toy Bio/Citiation==
Moved from [[Talk: Optimus Minor]]

I know I introduced a new concept with putting toy bio sections under fiction, but frequently, toy bio info contradicts other fictions, and therefore doesn't belong in the introductory paragraph. For axample, Minor's toy bio discribes him as having trouble controlling his savage animal side, but this is not displayed in the IDW comics, AND in IDW he is not a product of Megatron's cloning experiments. Is there an inherent incompatibility between a Toy Bio section and this wiki? Why is it bad to have a toy bio section? --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 15:05, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
:I agree with Crockalley: in the event where a character has a bio that doesn't match-up with his cartoon/comic portrayal, I think it is entirely appropriate to have separate section to cover that under the fiction heading. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 17:26, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

::Seconded. It makes sense when necessary. Also, sometimes bios have events that dont' belong int he bio proper. (Optimus Prime's battle int he Mirtonian constellation, for sinstance, does not belong in his main bio.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:55, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

:::Thirded. Also, can we be more aggressive about source-citing in the intro paragraph? Whenever an intro is longer than a sentence or two, I start to doubt its relevance. For instance, I'll see a bunch of suspiciously-highly-detailed info about some Nebulan's personality and history, and I'll wonder: Did this come from a Marvel TFU profile, a DW profile, an actual story, a tech-spec bio, what? As a rule, I think that ANY piece of info that only exists in one place should be confined to its continuity of origin. But, if that's too extreme a policy, then there should be citations of some sort within the intro. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 18:58, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
::::I agree. I often find myself wondering where a lot of this information comes from. If it's not under a heading in the fiction section, there's often no clues as to the information's origin. --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 19:12, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::I think that, unless we have another contradictory source, the assumption is that information is universal, which feels right to me. But getting more strict about inclusing a 'sources cited' section might not be bad. (Not necessarily footnoted, in most case that level fo distinction is unnecessary.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:42, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

::::::And my assumption regarding TF fiction is that if something is stated in only one continuity, then it's not necessarily applicable to the others. It ''can'' be, but presenting it as though it's universal limits the possibilities of all the other continuities. For instance, [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]]. His intro-paragraph presents the backstabbing-opportunist-who-everybody-hates-and-distrusts aspect of his tech-spec bio as though it applies universally. Yet there's little to no sign of that in his cartoon portrayal. He MIGHT be blackmailing other 'Cons "off-camera," but he could also be as straightforward as he seems. In fact, the "Animated continuity" section has to specifically mention he "only infrequently exhibit[ed] any traits that could be consider[ed] to be in line with his tech spec." So if it wasn't universal, why was it in the intro? I think tech-spec bios should get their own "Fiction" subsection, and for that matter, comic profiles should be separately called out within their continuities. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 20:14, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

::::::In reply to you, Derik: If the info is under the heading "Marvel Comics", that's self explanatory. But there's a lot of info that's not under a heading, and in those cases, I think it would be appropriate to indicate a source. --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 20:51, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

:::: I think the best approach is this: If there is only one real portrayle of a character (say Bumblebee) that goes at the begining. If there are different portrayles given fairly equal establishment (say Blaster, Comic vrs. Toon) then there should just be a note up top and appropriate character profiles under the respective fiction sections. If (as with OP Minor here) there's one Major fictive portrayle (IDW where there's an actual story) but then one minor that disagrees (a few techspec lines) the Major should go at the top, and then in the fiction section should be a seperate Toy Bio entry with the differnt persona. Would that make sense? [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 23:47, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::I agree fully with this. A one-sentence opening for a character page just... looks bad if there's anything that could actually fill it. Besides, it'd hardly be the first time fiction and bio didn't line up completely. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 23:56, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::Agreed --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 00:09, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

::::::It sounds like we have a fundamental difference in taste. Not only does a short opening not look bad to me, but like I said above, the longer it is, the less I trust it. I quickly begin to suspect that it's either paraphrased from a comic profile (which seem in most cases apocryphal to the actual stories) or cobbled together from multiple continuities into a whole that doesn't really exist in any (see Soundwave again). As for OpMinor in particular: Since he gets actual characterization in only one continuity, I don't think he needs an intro at ALL. Just weave his personality traits into his "IDW Comics" bio. The only reason I can think of for an intro to even ''exist'' is if the story-bio section is too long or complicated to expect an average Wiki-surfer to read. But that's certainly not the case here, and in the places where it ''is'' the case (such as, say, [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]), there are enough universal elements supported by all continuities to construct an unobjectionable, relevant intro. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 03:13, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I see where you're coming from, you want to avoid character bios that have ca jumbled continuity. That works fine for '''most''' characters, but a character with multiple incarnations... how the hell do you write a bio without mixing continuities?
:::::::Look at [[Springer]]. He's a wise-cracking Han Solo type who thinks of hismelf a a modern knight in the cartoon, an angsty self-doubting Wrecker in the Marvel Uk comics, and a confident but non-joking team leader in Dreamwave. In the cartoon he frequently uses a sword or lance, in the Marvel comic he's a gun-wielder, in Dreamwave he actually uses the jumping abilities his bios talked about but he never used.
:::::::Where does the truth of thie character lie? The bio here tries to be as broad as possible, mentioning all hsi abilities, and putting his different characterizations into a context that makes them not seem like total contradictions, but just two sides of the same coin.
:::::::I argue that the entire '''point''' of the top bios is the give that at-a-glance no-particular-continuity view of a character. If a reader wants to knwo all the introcacies, they can read the entire entry. The point of the introduction is to '''introduce'''. And further- whu ''should'' the introduction '''choose''' one continuity to favor aboce others? "Well, there's a wide degree of variation, but this is the RIGHT one."

:::::::Also? Soundwave WAS a traitorous backstabber in almost every continuity except the sunbow cartoon and the Kids Stuff storybooks. You can argue tyhat the cartoon was so priminent that maybe the backstabber aspect of his personality shouldn't be given such a front-and-center highlighting in the introduction, I might even ''agree'' with you, but it's only a 'glaring inaccuracy' if you hold the cartoon up above all other continuities. In the UK, Soudnwave became leader of the Decepticons for a time based entirely on his worst examnple of backstabbery. That part of his personality deserves highlighting just as much as his 'loyal spearcarrier' side. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:59, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

::::::::Certainly I don't think the intros should ''favor'' one continuity over the others. Like I said, the only information that I think properly belongs in an intro is that which can be supported universally. For instance, "Shockwave is a cold, unemotional, high-ranking Decepticon who never took on a Terran alt-mode." Those statements are all evidenced by his portrayals across continuities. Since I'm in favor of keeping the intros as brief as possible, I'm happy to stop there. But if more is really called for, then I think distinctions have to be made. "Across continuities, he has been portrayed in distinctly different ways: As hyper-logical and obsessed with attaining leadership of the Earth-bound Decepticons; as steadfastly loyal to Megatron and content to maintain stewardship over Cybertron for him; or as a seemingly benevolent but iron-fisted dictator who ruled a peaceful Cybertron for ages and considered the still-battling Earth-bound TFs barbaric." This goes hand-in-hand with my earlier call for better citation. That text could easily be accompanied with footnotes or sidenotes. Or even be rewritten to include mentions of which continuities the various portrayals came from. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 06:56, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::Actually, Shockwave took a Terran alt-mode in Hearts of Steel. And probably the DW Joe crossover, too. So we're down to "Shockwave is a cold, unemotional, high-ranking Decepticon." Except sometimes he's called Shockblast. And I bet you could make the point that the cartoon didn't really convey the "cold and unemotional" aspect very well, and to state it in the top could be considered kind of misleading, so we're really down to only "Shock*." Which is really ridiculous. Are we going to be pairing down everyone's bios as new continuities are established which don't touch on every single point of a character's personality? IDW's given Dogfight lines, but they haven't shown that he's quick to anger yet. Should we dump half his profile section until they get to that part? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:57, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

: I understand where you're coming from, wanting it to be absolutely clear where a character's personality info is from, but at the same time I '''REALLY''' dislike the idea of doing away with the characterization paragraph intro. I think it's probably most likely that folks will look up a character to find out what they were like, that first techspec bio style paragraph, as much as what they did (their fiction biography). It's certainly why I'd look up an obscure character. If you hide that info or obfuscate it by diffusing it throughout the fiction's chronicle of events you make the wiki a lot less useful and helpful in many situations.

:Really characters with multiple conflicting portrayles are still BY FAR a minority across the huge spectrum of TF fiction. I see no problem in treating them as what they are: Special Cases, giving them a note to that effect, and seperate characterization profiles at the start of each fiction section. This way, the ones it is an issue for are delt with and the majority, for whom it poses no problem, maintain the more attractive and useful profile first style. [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 10:39, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I have a few comments to add to this discussion:
*This conversation probably should have been moved to [[Transformers Wiki Talk:Community Portal|the community portal's talk page]] because it concerns site-wide policies. I only randomly decided to look at it because I'm bored and it seemed like a lot of people had been posting to it. It it were posted to the portal, though, I would have known it was important.
*Toy bio information should absolutely be allowed under "Fiction".
*I wish nearly everything on the Wiki were cited, but that would be a lot of work, and also most of the editors aside from me don't like the idea of "breaking the fourth wall" by giving citations.
*I like that our character pages have an intro, and I like that it is a continuity-nonspecific overview of the character's personality. As Walky describes, we can't really limit the intro to things which we know are correct in all continuities, because there's always going to be some "minor" universe where it isn't true and you end up with nothing to say at all.
*On the other hand, if some portrayals are ''vastly'' different than others, then (as the discussion seems to be settling on) I think there should be some sort of statement of that before the table of contents. I don't know how to do that without breaking the fourth wall. I also don't care. But some of you do.
*Like Jackpot, I don't like it when the intros get long, although my threshold is higher than his. A three paragraph "overview" is excessive except for especially notable characters ([[Optimus Primal]] and [[Megatron (BW)]] both have long, but appropriate introductions). I don't mind an intro which is only two sentences. If that's all there is that can really be said without pushing into inaccurate continuity-melding, then so be it. The intro for [[Omega Supreme (G1)]], for example, seems quite sufficient to me.
*There's no reason that a "Fiction" subsection can't start with a personality overview instead of diving right into a list of events in those cases where a separate overview is needed.
--[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 02:53, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

== Currency ==
How do people feel about requiring that any instances of price listings include a clarifier of which currency is being used? In practice, all this would mean is changing the instances of ''$'' to ''US$'', just to distinguish between all of those other countries that also use dollars. Also, by giving a clear point of reference, it mean we avoid the cumbersome silliness of potentially listing any prices in every major currency. Triganic Pu, anyone? --[[User:Sofaman|Sofaman]] 08:41, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

:Sounds reasonable to me. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 16:59, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
::Yeah. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 17:01, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

:::That's good then - does this proposal get added to the Style Guide, or what happens? --[[User:Sofaman|Sofaman]] 00:12, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

:::To clarify (well, add) - for the majority of toys the above is fine, but we should probably also have a Yen standard for Japan-only toys, and perhaps Pounds Sterling for Euro-only releases (since that's pretty much the only late G1/G2-era European currency still in existence)? --[[User:Sofaman|Sofaman]] 07:40, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

One thing I awlays wanted to incorporate into the toy entires, though I have yet to figure out a good way HOW, is the original prices for the toys. While from the BW (and posisbly G2) era on this is not so difficult, but early G1 espeically, prices were all over the fucking map on even a single piece. I have a big list of them (even bigger if Karl ever sends me the images from their collection, thankfully they took photos of EVERYTHING), but how to incorporate them... whoo. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 21:36, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

:We could just list whatever the Recommended Retail Price was, couldn't we? --[[User:Sofaman|Sofaman]] 00:12, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

:: Retailers made up MSRPs all the damn time. Unreliable and inaccurate. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 02:16, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

::: Didn't Hasbro issue its own RRPs though? I seem to recall they did here in Australia - was that practice different in other countries? I don't dispute that having all sorts of different pricing makes it more confusing, but if there is a fairly standard RRP, that at least would give a 'ball park' for each figure. --[[User:Sofaman|Sofaman]] 07:40, 10 October 2006 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2006-10-10T00:12:54Z

Sofaman: /* Currency */

==Archives==
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive1|Archive1]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive2|Archive2]]

==Control art==
There's been a lot of control art thrown up recently -- try [Megatron (BW)] for example -- but I'm not sure how to treat it yet. I certainly don't think it belongs up at the top of the article with the bios, and it would probably work better down near the toy section, but that area's going to be swamped with toy pics already. (I'm also concerned with the ethics of putting them all up on the wiki. Placing the entire contents of the BW Reborn DVD on the wiki can't possibly fall under Fair Use.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:35, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
:I figured it was fair game since there certainly seem to be a fair amount of comic scans, Genesis scans, DVD screenshots, as well as having Dan Khanna and Guido Guidi art posted. There's far more on the Golden Disc, but the only thing that really seemed needed was the toy art. And true, I had no clue where it would fit, so it can be moved to wherever.--MCRG
::It's a matter of proportion. There's a difference between scanning a panel from a comic book for an entry and having the entire comic book issue scanned, page-by-page. This is a simple distinction. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 23:49, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
:::I'm not putting up the entire disc.--MCRG
::I think putting up every single piece of control art from the disc would be very different, fair-use wise, than is having up a few scattered comic panels and character portraits. Even if there is more to the disc than just the control art. So I definitely do not think they should all be uploaded to this Wiki. I'm also not sure what the point of uploading them here is... They are neat, of course, but we aren't really envisioning this Wiki as a repository of every single piece of Transformers information ever. It's a TF encyclopedia, basically. I think having an article called [[control art]] would be a great idea, and could include a few examples. And we can include control art for some of the characters' toys in the character articles if there's something especially interesting about it, like the spark figure on TM2 Megatron. But including all of them is, I think, neither fair use nor useful. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 01:18, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
:::Is this on an archive somewhere? Create a Control Art article, upload a few examples, and put a link to the off-site online archive.
:::If it's NOT online soemwhere, maybe you have to ask yourself- in an era when '''everything''' tf-related is online, why isn't this? Possibly peopel decided it was a tad ''gauche'' to upload a big chunk of the exclusive content of a comercial product while it was still being widely sold.
:::And even if ti wasn't- this wiki is not an archive for that kind of thing. We dont' have everyon'es box art up, or their tech-specs, or anythign else relatign to them. In fact, we tend to fall back on box art just when there's no other images of characters. On tech-specs for content when the character has no media appearances to guide us.
:::Control art is interesting- for what it is. It's appropriate to show off for, like, Megatron and Dinobot, where it shows off features that didnt' make it into the final toys. The wiki is not an archive.
:::That said, the internet is full of archives. I love the control art. Go put it up at one of the archives. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:15, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

::: I basically agree with everything Steve-O said. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 02:38, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

==Franchise Designations, part three==
Since part 2's gotten huge...

I'm fine with the idea of dropping the tags from any characters who don't need disambiguation, I guess. Since most entries still need work ANYWAY, no big whoop, we can get to them over the normal course of things.

It doesn't really solve the issue of the tags when we NEED them, though. As it is, I vote "franchise of origin" using 2~3-letter abbreviations as the starter to reduce the number of double-tags out there. "Armorhide (ARM)" and "Armorhide (CYB)". We're gonna HAVE to do SOME doubles, but less is better. That second one... go with allegiance first, if that's the same, instead go with a subgroup or such. "Sky High (G1) (Pretender)" "Sky High (G1) (Micromaster)". I'd keep the franchise tag in these instances, because you never know when we might get a UT Sky High.

There IS some repetition between US/UK-G1 and J-G1, I'd rather go "series" for consistency's sake. "Guzzle (G1)" "Guzzle (MF)".

I favor the method with the least number of exceptions to it.--[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:19, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

:Part of my protests that we're losing some context- but then I remember that same context comes form categories (G1 v Beast Era).
:I'm still not... delighted by this proposal (mostly because I think the automatic 'Generation' designations made it easier to put links up without checking for escoteric naming) but I'm pretty alright with it. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:28, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
::I still don't like it, and think it makes things needlessly complicated. I'd rather things be manageable than consistent, and I absolutely dread a (tag) system that has 40 different possibilities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:44, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
:::I don't get where this is supposedly "complicated". It's so ''incredibly'' cut-and-dried. "Complicated" is trying to decide which fiction carries more weight for what character, which version of the tag should be used for any random instance. "Series of origin" as the tag is '''simple'''. It's how the fandom refers to the characters as it is, as Steve-o has already noted. "What series did the character first appear in" is not a difficult question. Plus, I don't see how this is any different from how we handle the likes of G1 Grimlock or BW Cheetor.
:::My JOB is sorting through vast piles of data to present it as cleanly, simply and consistantly as possible. There is a big difference between "expansive" and "complicated". Yes, there are a lot of series. But we know where everyone debuted in our world. I can argue Trailbreaker was more important to Universe than G1. I'd rather not leave things up to that train of thought, espeically with how wonky the fiction is. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 04:23, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't see any reason why we should even have double tags at all. They're redundant. I mean, there's no reason why we can't have Sky High (Pretender), Sky High (Micromaster), and if we ever get a UT Sky High, we can just deal with that then. It's ''incredibly'' simple to move a page. Two clicks, and a line of text. That's it. It's really not worth designing a system based around what will happen in the future, when it's so simple to just deal with problems when they come up.

Disambiguation's supposed to be to distinguish between multiple pages that would otherwise have the same name. It's not a categorization system. It's not meant for people to be able to guess what each and every URL on the wiki is. Under no system will there never be "esoteric" naming, since things like Sky High are going to be problematic no matter what. I'm really not in favour of this idea that we have to have this long pre-approved list of disambiguation tags and everything ''must'' follow that. I'd far rather just keep it simple. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 03:21, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
: I agree we can probably get away with removing most of the tags, mostly because I find that infinitely preferable to the Giant Freakin' Tag List Of Doom. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 04:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

:I would just as soon have SOME form of FACT-based, inarguable and consistant "how to mark this" when articles would need disambigution to AT LEAST START WITH. Yes, there's going to be some exceptions. But there's LESS of them that way, less room for ambiguity. As for using only single tags and no acronyms of single-word titles, fine. "Sky High (Pretender)", fine, because series-of-origin does fail there (we're lucky this happened in the era of rampant subgroups). "Thunderblast (Decepticon)", fine (if we end up with a non-Cybertron Thunderblast, then they can be "Thunderblast (Douche Wars)" or whatever... we're lucky Hasbro, despite name-re-uses, is generally good at keeping the re-uses spread out across difference series or at least factions). "Guzzle (Masterforce)", fine. "Armorhide (Armada)", fine. "Ricochet (Timelines)", fine. Multi-word tiles, sure, compress them. "Stampy (BWN)". This is about as simple AND consistant as it can get. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 04:23, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
::I completely agree with everything you said. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 04:29, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

There are a few things going on in the page moves that I think have gotten not quite enough discussion, so I wanted to raise them here:

''RiD versus RID'' - As ItsWalky commented on [[Talk:Hot Shot (RID)]], I don't remember reaching a consensus on this. I strongly prefer the all-caps version, but every time I've brought it up, nobody has said anything in response. But now there are pages being moved. Anybody want to express an opinion on this?

''Preferred order of disambiguation'' - I noticed a couple of page moves such as ''(Scavenger (Universe Deluxe) moved to Scavenger (Deluxe))'' which I thought might be a bad choice. I don't think any article should be disambiguated by size class alone. Maybe it's just me, but I do not remember the size classes of a lot of my toys, and certainly don't remember the size classes for a lot of the toys I don't own. Seeing "Scavenger (Deluxe)" tells me absolutely nothing. First choice for disambiguating should be franchise of origin. If that fails, then using subgroup or faction instead will usually do the trick. If that doesn't help, I would almost prefer something like altmode to size class. Size class, in my opinion, should be a last resort, and used only in conjunction with another word (usually franchise). Hence, "universe deluxe" would be okay.

Reactions, anybody?

--[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 16:37, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
: The Constructicons are probably the only time we'll have such a huge problem with this. We can't do them by faction, color, altmode, name, what-have-you, and in the case of the Universe ones, we can't use their franchise either. They just keep makin' freakin' Constructicons, and none of them are the same guys, even though they're all identical. Deluxe by itself is kinda wonky, because not only were they sold in two-packs as an ultra, but, well... we just don't have very many things descriptive enough to distinguish them. I think we just need to admit that we can't have a single-word disambiguation parenthetical for everyone. (Though, actually, upon reflection, perhaps [[Bonecrusher (Target)]] may suffice.)
:In regards to RiD/RID, I'm opposite Steve, in that RID looks bleh to me, and much prefer RiD, and I'm wondering where this was discussed that we would change all the countless RiDs to RIDs. I'm open to changing my mind, and the people may overwhelm my opinion, but in the absence of this discussion, I want to know what's going on. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 17:00, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

:: (Target) works for me. It's a pretty easy identifier. Fuckin' Constructicons.
:: And I prefer (RiD) too. Something about (RID) just doesn't ''look'' right.
::--[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 17:25, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

:::With RID vs. RiD, that was... well, me not seeing anyone argue with Steve-o against it, and agreeing with the logic as he presented it. Sorry if I jumped the gun there.

:::On the other hand, I obviously agreed enough with what he said to go through with the moves in the first place. We don't have random case-drops in any other acronym, and if acronyms themselves don't ''work'' with random case-drops (except for something like, say, OpComb - two words smushed together, as noted above), then I think it ''should'' be all-caps.

:::I would personally favor consistent capitalization across acronyms over the possibility of it looking weird. I grant that we don't have any other three-word acronyms, though...

:::As to the Constructicons, I thought Universe Ultra was fine. I'm not entirely sure about store-origin as a possible tag, but I suppose my worry about it is in the same field as Steve's "would people remember what sizeclass this toy is?" issue; that is, if people would remember what store it came from. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 20:42, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

:::Yea, it would probably be easyest to go with (Target) and (Micromaster) tags, assuming we count the toys European Energon release to be the same guys.
::: On a similar note, how are we going to handle the Color Changers vs. the Stormtroopers and Aquaspeeders? Although the specs are copied almost word-for word from the European G1 specs, and the names were ''switched'', not just changed, and diffrent molds were used. Are the US and Euro characters with matching specs and bios the same guys, or are they diffrent characters alltogether? --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 21:13, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

One thing I feel can be confusing having the article of the predominate user of a name not have the series tags. When two or more characters share a name, it would probably be best for all to have the series tags, as it makes it easier to differeeniate between characters on searches. When there are only two uses of the name, it would be best to have the tagless page link to the more prominate character, which puts the other character one click away on the disambig template. For three or more uses, redirecting the tagless page to the disambig page would also keep any pages a minimum of one click away. Having the most prominate character out of three at the tagless entry would put the others two clicks away. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 02:33, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

==Infoboxes==
Should we have an infobox to unite all of the tangling information, like foreign naming, voice actors and continuity into one nice place? Something like [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimus_Prime this]? [[User:Singularity|Singularity]] 08:04, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

If we were to adopt a convention of that sort, the layout of the box would have to be drastically different than the one they use on Wikipedia. (For example, no motto because different versions of a character may have different mottos. No English (Japanese) name in the box's title because there are way more languages than two to cover. Etc., etc.) I think that we already provide all the important information in our "standard" character layout, though, so I don't really see the need for it. Did you have something specific in mind? If you can make a good case for it I'm sure people would be willing to consider it. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 16:58, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

==Citing sources==
I've lost track of the various places this has come up, but some of us have previously discussed how we can cite sources of information without interrupting the flow of an article's text. Derik has even experimented with some templates that could be used. Well, apparently the Wikimedia software has a built-in footnote mechanism, which I noticed somebody else using when I got back from my vacation. (But of course I've forgotten who it was and where they used it.) But anyway, here is the [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Footnotes|Wikipedia footnotes]] mechanism. It inserts subscripts in the text that link down to a list of references at the end of the article. I think this is probably unobtrusive enough for those of you who didn't like the idea of "breaking the fourth wall" by making citations in the article text. I recommend that we encourage use of this mechanism. Opinions? --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 18:28, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

:Frequently when reading this wiki, I ask myself, where did that info come from? Often, I'd like to go to the source and find out more info (i.e. curiosity). But I can't because there is no source listed, and I end up asking a question in the discussion page and getting ItsWalky mad at me. For example: [[Noble/Savage]]'s article says that Silverbolt was to be the traitor, and Megatron would absorb his wolf parts. I am 1) interested in learning more about that, and 2) wondering if this information is even true. Without citing sources, crazy claims like that are left to faith. I don't know how anyone could possibly know that information. Is this information that can be looked up and verified, or is this something the author heard three years ago and decided to write down? How accurate can that be? A footnote system, as is used in the Wikipedia, would go along way to solving these problems. AND, it's not like it's hard to do, Insert a couple pieces of code, and ''say where you got that information from!!'' --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 11:25, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

==First-line continuity statements==
We have had some brief discussions about how to format the italicized first-line statements that exist in most articles, and I'd like to see if anybody has ideas for making things simpler. Currently the format goes like "Sunstreaker is an Autobot in the G1 continuity." When more specific information is needed, we may say, for example, "Lander is an Autobot Pretender in the Masterforce portion of Generation 1 continuity."

One problem with this is that Generation 1 isn't a single continuity. "Continuity family" would really be more appropriate. Additionally, when we move beyond G1 into later franchises that are part of the same family (BW and Universe for example) we run into our old problem of not having a name for this "main" continuity.

If we were to simply drop the word "continuity" from the statements, it would solve a lot of problems, but I feel like that's not quite a complete solution. If the word continuity remains, I think "family" should probably be attached to it.

Naming this monster continuity family ''would'' be a complete solution to the problem, because then we could be pretty specific, but of course that is a big problem in itself. (Personally I think "Classic Continuity" would be self-explanatory and sufficiently non-fawning, although I could probably warm to simply "Original Continuity".)

So, if anybody else has issues with the current scheme, or ideas for improving it, I'd like to hear about them. Post away.

--[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 02:48, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

:I agree that "the Generation 1 continuity," singular, stuff isn't such a good thing. We could simply pluaralize it, make it "continuities" rather than adding "family," but I'm not sure how well that would work. I'd also like to suggest "continuity group" as a possible alternative phrase. As for a name for the Generation 1/Beast Era family well, how about just that? "Generation 1/Beast Era"? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 04:21, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

:: We're lucky that Aaron provided an "umbrella term" for the Unicron Trilogy, giving us something at least quasi-official. I'm loathe to suggest anything for any others for a variety of reasons (I'm not even wild about "Beast Era", in all honesty), other than if we DID need one that encapsulated everything "fictionally" pre-BW (G1, G2, MW, RM, etc) I'd vote "Great War". As for some giant umbrella term for the G1-through-BW vaguely-timeline/tree? Ugh. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 04:36, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I move we put off this sidcussion by 6 months until the second Transformers Elseworlds come out from IDW. I suspect that those two points of reference, whch START with G1, but are very much NOT G1 in ways other iterations of G1 ARE, will (witht he DD Joe/TF series) allow us to make a sound judgement on this issue.
:::Attemptign to define broad parameters just BEFORE we're about to get data that will cause ot to define/redefine just where those boundaries lie strieks me as either stupid or futile, possible both.
:::DD's Joe/TF, for instance, features elements from the classic Joe timeline- and Sigma Six. (Their 'Armada' lets say.) They've also stolen dome character design elements from Armada- but not much. I anticipate that SOME FUTURE IDW elseworld will completely shatter existing defintions of 'G1 or not' by mixing elements much more agressively.
:::(This doesnt' mean we can't ''talk'' about it. But I suggest holding off on a fina decision) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:50, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
::::...Sigma Six? Dare I ask what you think is Sigma Sixy about the DD crossovers? I know I'm going to regret it. (But seriously, about the name for G1/BW/BM, we need to bug Archer a bunch.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 05:20, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::Well, the BATs from Art of War #1 use the Sigma Six Sky BAT design. But that seems to be about it. - [[User:RolonBolon|RolonBolon]] 05:42, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

::::::I just said some elements! Bat's qualifies! (And, as we previously established, soem character designe lement in the previous series based on Armada stuff.)
::::::At this point,t hey're minor design touches. But we could end up with a myuch more... post-crisis series someday. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 06:50, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

=="Manga" vs. "Story Pages"==

This never really mattered to me until now, because we had so little info on it, but we have the stories for Battlestars, Operation Combination G2, etc listed as "manga" or sometimes "mini manga". This can be confusing, as save for a few mail-away mangas or instruction manual pack-in comics, these stories were told through "story pages", those full-color magazine spreads. They aren't manga, really. Now, before I went and editted the many pages that list things like "Battlestars manga", I wanted to get your thoughts. "Story pages" an acceptable term for this? --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 01:08, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

:That works for me. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:41, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
::Oh, also, yeah, I think it might just be your machine regarding the 250px images. I don't know what's up with that. Any rate, if you're gonna have a 300px "main" image of Sky Garry... I might suggest somehting better than what's there now, honestly. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:44, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay, if it's just my shotty computer then I'll just shrink the pics back down to 250. As long as they work for everybody else, that's what I care about. And between 10 story pages, a good shot of Sky Garry that isn't butchered by a page-crease is hard to come by. That head-shot is the best I could do, hoenstly. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 01:56, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
:There's nothing from a catalog, maybe? I don't exactly know which of the approximately 4889 plastic storage tubs I've got the old catalogs in to check... any chance of digging up his box-art? --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 02:14, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

*I have 3 catalogue advertisements for Sky Garry, but they all use the same super imposed pic of the toy. One of them has his box art, but it's thumbnail size. I uploaded it, but man is the quality something awful.

[[deleted]]

Still, if you think it's better than that saluting mugshot, I can swap it out. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 02:47, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

:... hm. Tough call. I tend to prefer main images to be at least waist-up when possible (but that's me)... hrm. Well, if we find something else later... --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 02:50, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

*Well, there IS this: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v461/TFAscans/?action=view&current=Battlestars1.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch10

But, as you can see, it's got a black line through it and story page text over parts. I could try and use that one, if you think it's the best of the crop. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 02:57, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

: Hm. Actually, I kinda like that shot in the corner of him punching a Galaman. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 03:20, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

*Alright, you think this'll work?:

[[Image:GarryGalaman1.jpg]]

--[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 03:37, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

==Site name change?==
We never actually went ahead and changed the site's name to the proper spelling: "Teletraan I". ...are we going to do that? I kinda think we should. Aurax hasn't made an edit in a long time, but I'm sure he can be contacted through [http://booknine.blogspot.com/ his website] to send somebody like Walky the PSD he used for the logo graphic so we can update it too. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 21:20, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
:Fixed! Shift-refresh yer browsers. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:07, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
::Thanks for that. No, I haven't edited much (too busy with the rest of life), but I do check in from time to time. Sorry I missed the request for this. Walky, Steve-O... if either of you want the original PSD and the fonts used, let me know and I'll fire them off to you. [[User:Aurax|Aurax]] 17:25, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I've looked through the various things I ''can'' change, and the site title does not appear to be one of them; as was noted by Sannse in [[Transformers_Wiki_talk:Community_Portal/Archive1|the first archive of this page]], it seems that the Wikia tech guys have to do that themselves. It shouldn't be very hard to figure out who should be contacted for that. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 02:27, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

== image problems ==

Am I the only one unable to see anything under the /images/ directory. All I get is a "cannot connect to server" error. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 02:43, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

It's not just you. Wikia sometimes has hosting/database glitches. It will probably pass in a day or two. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 04:11, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Fandom articles ==

I was kinda hoping that despite [[:Category:Fandom]], we'd manage to avoid articles on fandom-related things in favour of more useful content until a decent standard got figured out. Or at least only get the [[BotCon|really important stuff]] done. But I guess not. So right now there isn't really any standard as to what counts as notable enough for an article on a fandom-related topic, and maybe this is just me, but I'm not really sure that [[Chewed caramels|things that somebody]] said [[EI/AD|once on a.t.t.]] are significant enough to be worth noting here.

If it's just me, I'll shut up. Anyone else have any thoughts? --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 22:50, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I think the chewed caramel article should go. EI/AD I'm kinda borderline on. It was a pretty well established term within the internet fandom at one time, but, it's almost entirely unknown now and certainly not relevant to the contemporary fandom. It could arguably be included as a sort of "historical" thing, but, I dunno. Like I said, I'm not sure. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 23:09, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm with Brits and Steve on this. There's a lot more important things to be done... like, say, various unnamed actual canonical characters, on up to yes, BotCon and episode/comic articles. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:00, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Troo. And as I discovered, one person's 'popular in fandom' is another's 'strange and obscure', so I think if nothing else it's the sort of category we want to really consider before putting an article to. --[[User:Ratbat|Ratbat]] 01:17, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:By a similar argument, I kind of think the [[neon]] article isn't really called for, but on the other hand I personally find it amusing and don't mind it being there. [[Trukk not munky]] probably is notable, however. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 05:19, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

::Count me in as not seeing the need for anything beyond the most major of fandom notions, especially since some of these really didn't make it outside of ATT by much, if at all ("chewed caramels" and the "woobers" note on [[faceplate]] come to mind). Even TRUKK NOT MUNKY and GEEWUNNER might be skirting it a bit, although those two in particular might see a resurgence post-TF2007 movie. [[Neon]] seems to be more of a pet peeve than an actual reference point, but it's laughable enough to make it worthwhile.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 08:40, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

==Television series vs Cartoon==
At some point we will need to disambiguate the [[Scramble City]] OVA from the "toyline"/subline/toy category Scramble City. When we do, what suffix are we going to give that article? It's not a television series. We could just use (OVA), admittedly, but this is a good excuse for me to bring up something that's been bugging me for a while -- I think the suffix should be (cartoon), and I think all the "(television series)" articles should also be (cartoon). Cartoon is more succinct and more inclusive and is more parallel with "comic" (not "comic series"). It's also a lot easier to remember. I have noticed in the changelogs that I'm not the only person who can't remember "television series" as opposed to "animated series" or other similar constructions. We started out with cartoon, but then in Singularity's initial burst of doing things, before he left and came back, he moved a bunch of them to television series, and I never got around to moving them back, and now there is some inertia to the television series scheme. But I still prefer "cartoon". Anybody have an opinion one way or the other? --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 02:49, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:I prefer cartoon for the same reason. It's shorter and easier to remember, and there just isn't any advantage to using the longer one. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 05:57, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
::Thirded. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 05:59, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:::(Television series) "feels" right to me. As would (animated series), I think. (Cartoon), though of course accurate and having the advantage of being a single word, wouldn't. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 06:00, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:::To add a bit more, I think it's because (television series) or (animated series) seem more... encyclopedish... to me. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 06:04, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
::::I moved the articles to "television series" as that was what Wikipedia used. I don't particularly care about it now. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 06:17, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:I don't like "cartoon." Cartoons can be anything, from comic books to doodles to animated series. To some folks, the Marvel Comics are cartoons. I mean, heck, ''I'm'' a ''cartoonist'', that's my job, but I sure as hell don't animate anything. That's why I prefer "animated series" or "television series," just to be precise. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

==Toy Bio/Citiation==
Moved from [[Talk: Optimus Minor]]

I know I introduced a new concept with putting toy bio sections under fiction, but frequently, toy bio info contradicts other fictions, and therefore doesn't belong in the introductory paragraph. For axample, Minor's toy bio discribes him as having trouble controlling his savage animal side, but this is not displayed in the IDW comics, AND in IDW he is not a product of Megatron's cloning experiments. Is there an inherent incompatibility between a Toy Bio section and this wiki? Why is it bad to have a toy bio section? --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 15:05, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
:I agree with Crockalley: in the event where a character has a bio that doesn't match-up with his cartoon/comic portrayal, I think it is entirely appropriate to have separate section to cover that under the fiction heading. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 17:26, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

::Seconded. It makes sense when necessary. Also, sometimes bios have events that dont' belong int he bio proper. (Optimus Prime's battle int he Mirtonian constellation, for sinstance, does not belong in his main bio.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:55, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

:::Thirded. Also, can we be more aggressive about source-citing in the intro paragraph? Whenever an intro is longer than a sentence or two, I start to doubt its relevance. For instance, I'll see a bunch of suspiciously-highly-detailed info about some Nebulan's personality and history, and I'll wonder: Did this come from a Marvel TFU profile, a DW profile, an actual story, a tech-spec bio, what? As a rule, I think that ANY piece of info that only exists in one place should be confined to its continuity of origin. But, if that's too extreme a policy, then there should be citations of some sort within the intro. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 18:58, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
::::I agree. I often find myself wondering where a lot of this information comes from. If it's not under a heading in the fiction section, there's often no clues as to the information's origin. --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 19:12, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::I think that, unless we have another contradictory source, the assumption is that information is universal, which feels right to me. But getting more strict about inclusing a 'sources cited' section might not be bad. (Not necessarily footnoted, in most case that level fo distinction is unnecessary.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:42, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

::::::And my assumption regarding TF fiction is that if something is stated in only one continuity, then it's not necessarily applicable to the others. It ''can'' be, but presenting it as though it's universal limits the possibilities of all the other continuities. For instance, [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]]. His intro-paragraph presents the backstabbing-opportunist-who-everybody-hates-and-distrusts aspect of his tech-spec bio as though it applies universally. Yet there's little to no sign of that in his cartoon portrayal. He MIGHT be blackmailing other 'Cons "off-camera," but he could also be as straightforward as he seems. In fact, the "Animated continuity" section has to specifically mention he "only infrequently exhibit[ed] any traits that could be consider[ed] to be in line with his tech spec." So if it wasn't universal, why was it in the intro? I think tech-spec bios should get their own "Fiction" subsection, and for that matter, comic profiles should be separately called out within their continuities. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 20:14, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

::::::In reply to you, Derik: If the info is under the heading "Marvel Comics", that's self explanatory. But there's a lot of info that's not under a heading, and in those cases, I think it would be appropriate to indicate a source. --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 20:51, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

:::: I think the best approach is this: If there is only one real portrayle of a character (say Bumblebee) that goes at the begining. If there are different portrayles given fairly equal establishment (say Blaster, Comic vrs. Toon) then there should just be a note up top and appropriate character profiles under the respective fiction sections. If (as with OP Minor here) there's one Major fictive portrayle (IDW where there's an actual story) but then one minor that disagrees (a few techspec lines) the Major should go at the top, and then in the fiction section should be a seperate Toy Bio entry with the differnt persona. Would that make sense? [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 23:47, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::I agree fully with this. A one-sentence opening for a character page just... looks bad if there's anything that could actually fill it. Besides, it'd hardly be the first time fiction and bio didn't line up completely. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 23:56, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::Agreed --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 00:09, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

::::::It sounds like we have a fundamental difference in taste. Not only does a short opening not look bad to me, but like I said above, the longer it is, the less I trust it. I quickly begin to suspect that it's either paraphrased from a comic profile (which seem in most cases apocryphal to the actual stories) or cobbled together from multiple continuities into a whole that doesn't really exist in any (see Soundwave again). As for OpMinor in particular: Since he gets actual characterization in only one continuity, I don't think he needs an intro at ALL. Just weave his personality traits into his "IDW Comics" bio. The only reason I can think of for an intro to even ''exist'' is if the story-bio section is too long or complicated to expect an average Wiki-surfer to read. But that's certainly not the case here, and in the places where it ''is'' the case (such as, say, [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]), there are enough universal elements supported by all continuities to construct an unobjectionable, relevant intro. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 03:13, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I see where you're coming from, you want to avoid character bios that have ca jumbled continuity. That works fine for '''most''' characters, but a character with multiple incarnations... how the hell do you write a bio without mixing continuities?
:::::::Look at [[Springer]]. He's a wise-cracking Han Solo type who thinks of hismelf a a modern knight in the cartoon, an angsty self-doubting Wrecker in the Marvel Uk comics, and a confident but non-joking team leader in Dreamwave. In the cartoon he frequently uses a sword or lance, in the Marvel comic he's a gun-wielder, in Dreamwave he actually uses the jumping abilities his bios talked about but he never used.
:::::::Where does the truth of thie character lie? The bio here tries to be as broad as possible, mentioning all hsi abilities, and putting his different characterizations into a context that makes them not seem like total contradictions, but just two sides of the same coin.
:::::::I argue that the entire '''point''' of the top bios is the give that at-a-glance no-particular-continuity view of a character. If a reader wants to knwo all the introcacies, they can read the entire entry. The point of the introduction is to '''introduce'''. And further- whu ''should'' the introduction '''choose''' one continuity to favor aboce others? "Well, there's a wide degree of variation, but this is the RIGHT one."

:::::::Also? Soundwave WAS a traitorous backstabber in almost every continuity except the sunbow cartoon and the Kids Stuff storybooks. You can argue tyhat the cartoon was so priminent that maybe the backstabber aspect of his personality shouldn't be given such a front-and-center highlighting in the introduction, I might even ''agree'' with you, but it's only a 'glaring inaccuracy' if you hold the cartoon up above all other continuities. In the UK, Soudnwave became leader of the Decepticons for a time based entirely on his worst examnple of backstabbery. That part of his personality deserves highlighting just as much as his 'loyal spearcarrier' side. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:59, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

::::::::Certainly I don't think the intros should ''favor'' one continuity over the others. Like I said, the only information that I think properly belongs in an intro is that which can be supported universally. For instance, "Shockwave is a cold, unemotional, high-ranking Decepticon who never took on a Terran alt-mode." Those statements are all evidenced by his portrayals across continuities. Since I'm in favor of keeping the intros as brief as possible, I'm happy to stop there. But if more is really called for, then I think distinctions have to be made. "Across continuities, he has been portrayed in distinctly different ways: As hyper-logical and obsessed with attaining leadership of the Earth-bound Decepticons; as steadfastly loyal to Megatron and content to maintain stewardship over Cybertron for him; or as a seemingly benevolent but iron-fisted dictator who ruled a peaceful Cybertron for ages and considered the still-battling Earth-bound TFs barbaric." This goes hand-in-hand with my earlier call for better citation. That text could easily be accompanied with footnotes or sidenotes. Or even be rewritten to include mentions of which continuities the various portrayals came from. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 06:56, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::Actually, Shockwave took a Terran alt-mode in Hearts of Steel. And probably the DW Joe crossover, too. So we're down to "Shockwave is a cold, unemotional, high-ranking Decepticon." Except sometimes he's called Shockblast. And I bet you could make the point that the cartoon didn't really convey the "cold and unemotional" aspect very well, and to state it in the top could be considered kind of misleading, so we're really down to only "Shock*." Which is really ridiculous. Are we going to be pairing down everyone's bios as new continuities are established which don't touch on every single point of a character's personality? IDW's given Dogfight lines, but they haven't shown that he's quick to anger yet. Should we dump half his profile section until they get to that part? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:57, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

: I understand where you're coming from, wanting it to be absolutely clear where a character's personality info is from, but at the same time I '''REALLY''' dislike the idea of doing away with the characterization paragraph intro. I think it's probably most likely that folks will look up a character to find out what they were like, that first techspec bio style paragraph, as much as what they did (their fiction biography). It's certainly why I'd look up an obscure character. If you hide that info or obfuscate it by diffusing it throughout the fiction's chronicle of events you make the wiki a lot less useful and helpful in many situations.

:Really characters with multiple conflicting portrayles are still BY FAR a minority across the huge spectrum of TF fiction. I see no problem in treating them as what they are: Special Cases, giving them a note to that effect, and seperate characterization profiles at the start of each fiction section. This way, the ones it is an issue for are delt with and the majority, for whom it poses no problem, maintain the more attractive and useful profile first style. [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 10:39, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I have a few comments to add to this discussion:
*This conversation probably should have been moved to [[Transformers Wiki Talk:Community Portal|the community portal's talk page]] because it concerns site-wide policies. I only randomly decided to look at it because I'm bored and it seemed like a lot of people had been posting to it. It it were posted to the portal, though, I would have known it was important.
*Toy bio information should absolutely be allowed under "Fiction".
*I wish nearly everything on the Wiki were cited, but that would be a lot of work, and also most of the editors aside from me don't like the idea of "breaking the fourth wall" by giving citations.
*I like that our character pages have an intro, and I like that it is a continuity-nonspecific overview of the character's personality. As Walky describes, we can't really limit the intro to things which we know are correct in all continuities, because there's always going to be some "minor" universe where it isn't true and you end up with nothing to say at all.
*On the other hand, if some portrayals are ''vastly'' different than others, then (as the discussion seems to be settling on) I think there should be some sort of statement of that before the table of contents. I don't know how to do that without breaking the fourth wall. I also don't care. But some of you do.
*Like Jackpot, I don't like it when the intros get long, although my threshold is higher than his. A three paragraph "overview" is excessive except for especially notable characters ([[Optimus Primal]] and [[Megatron (BW)]] both have long, but appropriate introductions). I don't mind an intro which is only two sentences. If that's all there is that can really be said without pushing into inaccurate continuity-melding, then so be it. The intro for [[Omega Supreme (G1)]], for example, seems quite sufficient to me.
*There's no reason that a "Fiction" subsection can't start with a personality overview instead of diving right into a list of events in those cases where a separate overview is needed.
--[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 02:53, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

== Currency ==
How do people feel about requiring that any instances of price listings include a clarifier of which currency is being used? In practice, all this would mean is changing the instances of ''$'' to ''US$'', just to distinguish between all of those other countries that also use dollars. Also, by giving a clear point of reference, it mean we avoid the cumbersome silliness of potentially listing any prices in every major currency. Triganic Pu, anyone? --[[User:Sofaman|Sofaman]] 08:41, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

:Sounds reasonable to me. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 16:59, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
::Yeah. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 17:01, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

:::That's good then - does this proposal get added to the Style Guide, or what happens? --[[User:Sofaman|Sofaman]] 00:12, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

One thing I awlays wanted to incorporate into the toy entires, though I have yet to figure out a good way HOW, is the original prices for the toys. While from the BW (and posisbly G2) era on this is not so difficult, but early G1 espeically, prices were all over the fucking map on even a single piece. I have a big list of them (even bigger if Karl ever sends me the images from their collection, thankfully they took photos of EVERYTHING), but how to incorporate them... whoo. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 21:36, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

:We could just list whatever the Recommended Retail Price was, couldn't we? --[[User:Sofaman|Sofaman]] 00:12, 10 October 2006 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Soundwave (BW)

2006-10-09T13:40:02Z

Sofaman: /* Beast Wars */ Updated toy year

{{disambig3|Soundwave}}
:''Soundwave is a [[Mutant (BW)|Mutant]] from the [[Beast Wars]] portion of the [[Generation 1]] continuity family''

[[Image:Bw_soundwave.jpg|right|thumb|250px|You want fries with that?]]
'''Soundwave''' is a brooder, like his fellows, with a tendency towards the dramatic. Has ultra-sensitive internal radar, and tail can send seismic shockwaves through the ground.

==Fiction==

===Universe===

===IDW Comics===

''('''Note''': Their toy package blurbs and character bios, as well as the 3H [[Universe]] comics, place the Mutants on Cybertron during the events of [[Beast Machines]]. (Their creation via Megatron's virus is a direct reference to the Beast Machines cartoon, as are mentions of the [[Oracle]] in their bios.) The IDW Beast Wars comics place them instead on prehistoric Earth during Beast Wars. It is unclear if this is a [[retcon]] or will be explained at a later date.
''

== Toys ==
=== Beast Wars ===
* '''Soundwave''' (Mutant, 2000)
:Soundwave was a [[deluxe]]-sized toy, and could transform between an bat and an alligator. He had a panel on the chest of his bat mode that could be lifted to reveal mechanical parts. His robot face could be revealed within the bat's mouth by pressing a spine on the back of the bat head.

== External links ==
* [http://tfu.info/2000/Mutant/Soundwave/soundwave.htm Soundwave at TFU.info]

{{stub}}
[[Category: Beast Machines]]
[[Category:Beast Wars characters]]
[[Category:Universe]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Razor Claw

2006-10-09T13:39:28Z

Sofaman: /* Beast Wars */ Updated toy year

{{disambig3|Razorclaw}}
:''Razor Claw is a [[Mutant (BW)|Mutant]] from the [[Beast Wars]] portion of the [[Generation 1]] continuity family''

'''Razor Claw''' is loyal, self-sacrificing warrior, who fights with crusader-like enthusiasm. He harbours a secret jealously towards those Transformers who still possess a robot mode. As a wolverine, his tremendous speed borders on teleportation. As a velociraptor, he is impervious to firepower.

==Fiction==

===Universe===

''('''Note''': Their toy package blurbs and character bios, as well as the 3H [[Universe]] comics, place the Mutants on Cybertron during the events of [[Beast Machines]]. (Their creation via Megatron's virus is a direct reference to the Beast Machines cartoon, as are mentions of the [[Oracle]] in their bios.) The IDW Beast Wars comics place them instead on prehistoric Earth during Beast Wars. It is unclear if this is a [[retcon]] or will be explained at a later date. It should also be noted that Razor Claw is the only Mutant not to have appeared so far in the IDW Beast Wars comics.
''

== Toys ==
=== Beast Wars ===
* '''Razor Claw''' (Mutant, 2000)
:Razor Claw was a [[deluxe]]-sized toy, and could transform between a velociraptor and a wolverine. His robot head could be revealed by lifting the top of the velociraptor head. He lacked the 'hidden robot parts' feature shared by the other 3 Mutant toys.

== External links ==
* [http://tfu.info/2000/Mutant/RazorClaw/razorclaw.htm Razor Claw at TFU.info]

{{stub}}
[[Category: Beast Machines]]
[[Category:Beast Wars characters]]
[[Category:Universe]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Poison Bite

2006-10-09T13:38:57Z

Sofaman: /* Beast Wars */ Updated toy year

:''Poison Bite is a [[Mutant (BW)|Mutant]] from the [[Beast Wars]] portion of the [[Generation 1]] continuity family''

[[Image:Bw_poisonbite.jpg|right|thumb|250px|Poison Bite politely requests some respect for his personal space]]
'''Poison Bite''' is the Mutant's special operative. He seems to be more religiously-inclined that his fellow mutants, as he accepts the Mutant mission as part of a higher vision, but also feels abandoned by the [[Oracle]]. He often broods about what he believes is the approaching extinction of the Mutants, but despite his seeming pessimism, he is well-liked by his fellows. He can teleport up to 30 metres in either mode.

==Fiction==

===Universe===

===IDW Comics===

''('''Note''': Their toy package blurbs and character bios, as well as the 3H [[Universe]] comics, place the Mutants on Cybertron during the events of [[Beast Machines]]. (Their creation via Megatron's virus is a direct reference to the Beast Machines cartoon, as are mentions of the Oracle in their bios.) The IDW Beast Wars comics place them instead on prehistoric Earth during Beast Wars. It is unclear if this is a [[retcon]] or will be explained at a later date.
''

== Toys ==
=== Beast Wars ===
* '''Poison Bite''' (Mutant, 2000)
:Poison Bite was a [[deluxe]]-sized toy, and could transform between a scorpion and a barracuda. He had a small panel on his right scorpion claw that could be lifted to reveal mechanical parts. The robot face could be revealed by pressing the stinger tip on the scorpion tail.

== External links ==
* [http://tfu.info/2000/Mutant/PoisonBite/poisonbite.htm Poison Bite at TFU.info]

{{stub}}
[[Category: Beast Machines]]
[[Category:Beast Wars characters]]
[[Category:Universe]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Icebird

2006-10-09T13:38:06Z

Sofaman: /* Beast Wars */ Updated toy year

:''Icebird is a [[Mutant (BW)|Mutant]] from the [[Beast Wars]] portion of the [[Generation 1]] continuity family''

[[Image:Bw_icebird.jpg|right|thumb|250px|Icebird dislikes surprises]]
'''Icebird''' is the wise and powerful leader of the Mutants, though he resents his inability to return to robot mode. He has as a goal to eschew technology completely and evolve to a completely organic existence. As a side-effect of his mutation, he is able to read minds & communicate telepathically, shut down machinery at will, and become invisible.

==Fiction==

===Universe===

===IDW Comics===

''('''Note''': Their toy package blurbs and character bios, as well as the 3H [[Universe]] comics, place the Mutants on Cybertron during the events of [[Beast Machines]]. (Their creation via Megatron's virus is a direct reference to the Beast Machines cartoon, as are mentions of the [[Oracle]] in their bios.) The IDW Beast Wars comics place them instead on prehistoric Earth during Beast Wars. It is unclear if this is a [[retcon]] or will be explained at a later date.
''

== Toys ==
=== Beast Wars ===
* '''Icebird''' (Mutant, 2000)
:Icebird was a [[deluxe]]-sized toy, and could transform between an owl and a polar bear. He had a small panel on his front right bear leg that could be lifted to reveal mechanical parts. His robot head could be revealed by lifting the panel behind the polar bear head.

== External links ==
* [http://tfu.info/2000/Mutant/Icebird/icebird.htm Icebird at TFU.info]

{{stub}}
[[Category: Beast Machines]]
[[Category:Beast Wars characters]]
[[Category:Universe]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2006-10-09T08:41:52Z

Sofaman:

==Archives==
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive1|Archive1]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive2|Archive2]]

==Control art==
There's been a lot of control art thrown up recently -- try [Megatron (BW)] for example -- but I'm not sure how to treat it yet. I certainly don't think it belongs up at the top of the article with the bios, and it would probably work better down near the toy section, but that area's going to be swamped with toy pics already. (I'm also concerned with the ethics of putting them all up on the wiki. Placing the entire contents of the BW Reborn DVD on the wiki can't possibly fall under Fair Use.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:35, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
:I figured it was fair game since there certainly seem to be a fair amount of comic scans, Genesis scans, DVD screenshots, as well as having Dan Khanna and Guido Guidi art posted. There's far more on the Golden Disc, but the only thing that really seemed needed was the toy art. And true, I had no clue where it would fit, so it can be moved to wherever.--MCRG
::It's a matter of proportion. There's a difference between scanning a panel from a comic book for an entry and having the entire comic book issue scanned, page-by-page. This is a simple distinction. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 23:49, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
:::I'm not putting up the entire disc.--MCRG
::I think putting up every single piece of control art from the disc would be very different, fair-use wise, than is having up a few scattered comic panels and character portraits. Even if there is more to the disc than just the control art. So I definitely do not think they should all be uploaded to this Wiki. I'm also not sure what the point of uploading them here is... They are neat, of course, but we aren't really envisioning this Wiki as a repository of every single piece of Transformers information ever. It's a TF encyclopedia, basically. I think having an article called [[control art]] would be a great idea, and could include a few examples. And we can include control art for some of the characters' toys in the character articles if there's something especially interesting about it, like the spark figure on TM2 Megatron. But including all of them is, I think, neither fair use nor useful. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 01:18, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
:::Is this on an archive somewhere? Create a Control Art article, upload a few examples, and put a link to the off-site online archive.
:::If it's NOT online soemwhere, maybe you have to ask yourself- in an era when '''everything''' tf-related is online, why isn't this? Possibly peopel decided it was a tad ''gauche'' to upload a big chunk of the exclusive content of a comercial product while it was still being widely sold.
:::And even if ti wasn't- this wiki is not an archive for that kind of thing. We dont' have everyon'es box art up, or their tech-specs, or anythign else relatign to them. In fact, we tend to fall back on box art just when there's no other images of characters. On tech-specs for content when the character has no media appearances to guide us.
:::Control art is interesting- for what it is. It's appropriate to show off for, like, Megatron and Dinobot, where it shows off features that didnt' make it into the final toys. The wiki is not an archive.
:::That said, the internet is full of archives. I love the control art. Go put it up at one of the archives. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:15, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

::: I basically agree with everything Steve-O said. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 02:38, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

==Franchise Designations, part three==
Since part 2's gotten huge...

I'm fine with the idea of dropping the tags from any characters who don't need disambiguation, I guess. Since most entries still need work ANYWAY, no big whoop, we can get to them over the normal course of things.

It doesn't really solve the issue of the tags when we NEED them, though. As it is, I vote "franchise of origin" using 2~3-letter abbreviations as the starter to reduce the number of double-tags out there. "Armorhide (ARM)" and "Armorhide (CYB)". We're gonna HAVE to do SOME doubles, but less is better. That second one... go with allegiance first, if that's the same, instead go with a subgroup or such. "Sky High (G1) (Pretender)" "Sky High (G1) (Micromaster)". I'd keep the franchise tag in these instances, because you never know when we might get a UT Sky High.

There IS some repetition between US/UK-G1 and J-G1, I'd rather go "series" for consistency's sake. "Guzzle (G1)" "Guzzle (MF)".

I favor the method with the least number of exceptions to it.--[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:19, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

:Part of my protests that we're losing some context- but then I remember that same context comes form categories (G1 v Beast Era).
:I'm still not... delighted by this proposal (mostly because I think the automatic 'Generation' designations made it easier to put links up without checking for escoteric naming) but I'm pretty alright with it. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:28, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
::I still don't like it, and think it makes things needlessly complicated. I'd rather things be manageable than consistent, and I absolutely dread a (tag) system that has 40 different possibilities. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:44, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
:::I don't get where this is supposedly "complicated". It's so ''incredibly'' cut-and-dried. "Complicated" is trying to decide which fiction carries more weight for what character, which version of the tag should be used for any random instance. "Series of origin" as the tag is '''simple'''. It's how the fandom refers to the characters as it is, as Steve-o has already noted. "What series did the character first appear in" is not a difficult question. Plus, I don't see how this is any different from how we handle the likes of G1 Grimlock or BW Cheetor.
:::My JOB is sorting through vast piles of data to present it as cleanly, simply and consistantly as possible. There is a big difference between "expansive" and "complicated". Yes, there are a lot of series. But we know where everyone debuted in our world. I can argue Trailbreaker was more important to Universe than G1. I'd rather not leave things up to that train of thought, espeically with how wonky the fiction is. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 04:23, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't see any reason why we should even have double tags at all. They're redundant. I mean, there's no reason why we can't have Sky High (Pretender), Sky High (Micromaster), and if we ever get a UT Sky High, we can just deal with that then. It's ''incredibly'' simple to move a page. Two clicks, and a line of text. That's it. It's really not worth designing a system based around what will happen in the future, when it's so simple to just deal with problems when they come up.

Disambiguation's supposed to be to distinguish between multiple pages that would otherwise have the same name. It's not a categorization system. It's not meant for people to be able to guess what each and every URL on the wiki is. Under no system will there never be "esoteric" naming, since things like Sky High are going to be problematic no matter what. I'm really not in favour of this idea that we have to have this long pre-approved list of disambiguation tags and everything ''must'' follow that. I'd far rather just keep it simple. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 03:21, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
: I agree we can probably get away with removing most of the tags, mostly because I find that infinitely preferable to the Giant Freakin' Tag List Of Doom. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 04:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

:I would just as soon have SOME form of FACT-based, inarguable and consistant "how to mark this" when articles would need disambigution to AT LEAST START WITH. Yes, there's going to be some exceptions. But there's LESS of them that way, less room for ambiguity. As for using only single tags and no acronyms of single-word titles, fine. "Sky High (Pretender)", fine, because series-of-origin does fail there (we're lucky this happened in the era of rampant subgroups). "Thunderblast (Decepticon)", fine (if we end up with a non-Cybertron Thunderblast, then they can be "Thunderblast (Douche Wars)" or whatever... we're lucky Hasbro, despite name-re-uses, is generally good at keeping the re-uses spread out across difference series or at least factions). "Guzzle (Masterforce)", fine. "Armorhide (Armada)", fine. "Ricochet (Timelines)", fine. Multi-word tiles, sure, compress them. "Stampy (BWN)". This is about as simple AND consistant as it can get. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 04:23, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
::I completely agree with everything you said. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 04:29, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

There are a few things going on in the page moves that I think have gotten not quite enough discussion, so I wanted to raise them here:

''RiD versus RID'' - As ItsWalky commented on [[Talk:Hot Shot (RID)]], I don't remember reaching a consensus on this. I strongly prefer the all-caps version, but every time I've brought it up, nobody has said anything in response. But now there are pages being moved. Anybody want to express an opinion on this?

''Preferred order of disambiguation'' - I noticed a couple of page moves such as ''(Scavenger (Universe Deluxe) moved to Scavenger (Deluxe))'' which I thought might be a bad choice. I don't think any article should be disambiguated by size class alone. Maybe it's just me, but I do not remember the size classes of a lot of my toys, and certainly don't remember the size classes for a lot of the toys I don't own. Seeing "Scavenger (Deluxe)" tells me absolutely nothing. First choice for disambiguating should be franchise of origin. If that fails, then using subgroup or faction instead will usually do the trick. If that doesn't help, I would almost prefer something like altmode to size class. Size class, in my opinion, should be a last resort, and used only in conjunction with another word (usually franchise). Hence, "universe deluxe" would be okay.

Reactions, anybody?

--[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 16:37, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
: The Constructicons are probably the only time we'll have such a huge problem with this. We can't do them by faction, color, altmode, name, what-have-you, and in the case of the Universe ones, we can't use their franchise either. They just keep makin' freakin' Constructicons, and none of them are the same guys, even though they're all identical. Deluxe by itself is kinda wonky, because not only were they sold in two-packs as an ultra, but, well... we just don't have very many things descriptive enough to distinguish them. I think we just need to admit that we can't have a single-word disambiguation parenthetical for everyone. (Though, actually, upon reflection, perhaps [[Bonecrusher (Target)]] may suffice.)
:In regards to RiD/RID, I'm opposite Steve, in that RID looks bleh to me, and much prefer RiD, and I'm wondering where this was discussed that we would change all the countless RiDs to RIDs. I'm open to changing my mind, and the people may overwhelm my opinion, but in the absence of this discussion, I want to know what's going on. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 17:00, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

:: (Target) works for me. It's a pretty easy identifier. Fuckin' Constructicons.
:: And I prefer (RiD) too. Something about (RID) just doesn't ''look'' right.
::--[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 17:25, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

:::With RID vs. RiD, that was... well, me not seeing anyone argue with Steve-o against it, and agreeing with the logic as he presented it. Sorry if I jumped the gun there.

:::On the other hand, I obviously agreed enough with what he said to go through with the moves in the first place. We don't have random case-drops in any other acronym, and if acronyms themselves don't ''work'' with random case-drops (except for something like, say, OpComb - two words smushed together, as noted above), then I think it ''should'' be all-caps.

:::I would personally favor consistent capitalization across acronyms over the possibility of it looking weird. I grant that we don't have any other three-word acronyms, though...

:::As to the Constructicons, I thought Universe Ultra was fine. I'm not entirely sure about store-origin as a possible tag, but I suppose my worry about it is in the same field as Steve's "would people remember what sizeclass this toy is?" issue; that is, if people would remember what store it came from. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 20:42, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

:::Yea, it would probably be easyest to go with (Target) and (Micromaster) tags, assuming we count the toys European Energon release to be the same guys.
::: On a similar note, how are we going to handle the Color Changers vs. the Stormtroopers and Aquaspeeders? Although the specs are copied almost word-for word from the European G1 specs, and the names were ''switched'', not just changed, and diffrent molds were used. Are the US and Euro characters with matching specs and bios the same guys, or are they diffrent characters alltogether? --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 21:13, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

One thing I feel can be confusing having the article of the predominate user of a name not have the series tags. When two or more characters share a name, it would probably be best for all to have the series tags, as it makes it easier to differeeniate between characters on searches. When there are only two uses of the name, it would be best to have the tagless page link to the more prominate character, which puts the other character one click away on the disambig template. For three or more uses, redirecting the tagless page to the disambig page would also keep any pages a minimum of one click away. Having the most prominate character out of three at the tagless entry would put the others two clicks away. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 02:33, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

==Infoboxes==
Should we have an infobox to unite all of the tangling information, like foreign naming, voice actors and continuity into one nice place? Something like [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimus_Prime this]? [[User:Singularity|Singularity]] 08:04, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

If we were to adopt a convention of that sort, the layout of the box would have to be drastically different than the one they use on Wikipedia. (For example, no motto because different versions of a character may have different mottos. No English (Japanese) name in the box's title because there are way more languages than two to cover. Etc., etc.) I think that we already provide all the important information in our "standard" character layout, though, so I don't really see the need for it. Did you have something specific in mind? If you can make a good case for it I'm sure people would be willing to consider it. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 16:58, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

==Citing sources==
I've lost track of the various places this has come up, but some of us have previously discussed how we can cite sources of information without interrupting the flow of an article's text. Derik has even experimented with some templates that could be used. Well, apparently the Wikimedia software has a built-in footnote mechanism, which I noticed somebody else using when I got back from my vacation. (But of course I've forgotten who it was and where they used it.) But anyway, here is the [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Footnotes|Wikipedia footnotes]] mechanism. It inserts subscripts in the text that link down to a list of references at the end of the article. I think this is probably unobtrusive enough for those of you who didn't like the idea of "breaking the fourth wall" by making citations in the article text. I recommend that we encourage use of this mechanism. Opinions? --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 18:28, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

:Frequently when reading this wiki, I ask myself, where did that info come from? Often, I'd like to go to the source and find out more info (i.e. curiosity). But I can't because there is no source listed, and I end up asking a question in the discussion page and getting ItsWalky mad at me. For example: [[Noble/Savage]]'s article says that Silverbolt was to be the traitor, and Megatron would absorb his wolf parts. I am 1) interested in learning more about that, and 2) wondering if this information is even true. Without citing sources, crazy claims like that are left to faith. I don't know how anyone could possibly know that information. Is this information that can be looked up and verified, or is this something the author heard three years ago and decided to write down? How accurate can that be? A footnote system, as is used in the Wikipedia, would go along way to solving these problems. AND, it's not like it's hard to do, Insert a couple pieces of code, and ''say where you got that information from!!'' --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 11:25, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

==First-line continuity statements==
We have had some brief discussions about how to format the italicized first-line statements that exist in most articles, and I'd like to see if anybody has ideas for making things simpler. Currently the format goes like "Sunstreaker is an Autobot in the G1 continuity." When more specific information is needed, we may say, for example, "Lander is an Autobot Pretender in the Masterforce portion of Generation 1 continuity."

One problem with this is that Generation 1 isn't a single continuity. "Continuity family" would really be more appropriate. Additionally, when we move beyond G1 into later franchises that are part of the same family (BW and Universe for example) we run into our old problem of not having a name for this "main" continuity.

If we were to simply drop the word "continuity" from the statements, it would solve a lot of problems, but I feel like that's not quite a complete solution. If the word continuity remains, I think "family" should probably be attached to it.

Naming this monster continuity family ''would'' be a complete solution to the problem, because then we could be pretty specific, but of course that is a big problem in itself. (Personally I think "Classic Continuity" would be self-explanatory and sufficiently non-fawning, although I could probably warm to simply "Original Continuity".)

So, if anybody else has issues with the current scheme, or ideas for improving it, I'd like to hear about them. Post away.

--[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 02:48, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

:I agree that "the Generation 1 continuity," singular, stuff isn't such a good thing. We could simply pluaralize it, make it "continuities" rather than adding "family," but I'm not sure how well that would work. I'd also like to suggest "continuity group" as a possible alternative phrase. As for a name for the Generation 1/Beast Era family well, how about just that? "Generation 1/Beast Era"? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 04:21, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

:: We're lucky that Aaron provided an "umbrella term" for the Unicron Trilogy, giving us something at least quasi-official. I'm loathe to suggest anything for any others for a variety of reasons (I'm not even wild about "Beast Era", in all honesty), other than if we DID need one that encapsulated everything "fictionally" pre-BW (G1, G2, MW, RM, etc) I'd vote "Great War". As for some giant umbrella term for the G1-through-BW vaguely-timeline/tree? Ugh. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 04:36, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I move we put off this sidcussion by 6 months until the second Transformers Elseworlds come out from IDW. I suspect that those two points of reference, whch START with G1, but are very much NOT G1 in ways other iterations of G1 ARE, will (witht he DD Joe/TF series) allow us to make a sound judgement on this issue.
:::Attemptign to define broad parameters just BEFORE we're about to get data that will cause ot to define/redefine just where those boundaries lie strieks me as either stupid or futile, possible both.
:::DD's Joe/TF, for instance, features elements from the classic Joe timeline- and Sigma Six. (Their 'Armada' lets say.) They've also stolen dome character design elements from Armada- but not much. I anticipate that SOME FUTURE IDW elseworld will completely shatter existing defintions of 'G1 or not' by mixing elements much more agressively.
:::(This doesnt' mean we can't ''talk'' about it. But I suggest holding off on a fina decision) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:50, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
::::...Sigma Six? Dare I ask what you think is Sigma Sixy about the DD crossovers? I know I'm going to regret it. (But seriously, about the name for G1/BW/BM, we need to bug Archer a bunch.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 05:20, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::Well, the BATs from Art of War #1 use the Sigma Six Sky BAT design. But that seems to be about it. - [[User:RolonBolon|RolonBolon]] 05:42, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

::::::I just said some elements! Bat's qualifies! (And, as we previously established, soem character designe lement in the previous series based on Armada stuff.)
::::::At this point,t hey're minor design touches. But we could end up with a myuch more... post-crisis series someday. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 06:50, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

=="Manga" vs. "Story Pages"==

This never really mattered to me until now, because we had so little info on it, but we have the stories for Battlestars, Operation Combination G2, etc listed as "manga" or sometimes "mini manga". This can be confusing, as save for a few mail-away mangas or instruction manual pack-in comics, these stories were told through "story pages", those full-color magazine spreads. They aren't manga, really. Now, before I went and editted the many pages that list things like "Battlestars manga", I wanted to get your thoughts. "Story pages" an acceptable term for this? --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 01:08, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

:That works for me. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:41, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
::Oh, also, yeah, I think it might just be your machine regarding the 250px images. I don't know what's up with that. Any rate, if you're gonna have a 300px "main" image of Sky Garry... I might suggest somehting better than what's there now, honestly. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:44, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay, if it's just my shotty computer then I'll just shrink the pics back down to 250. As long as they work for everybody else, that's what I care about. And between 10 story pages, a good shot of Sky Garry that isn't butchered by a page-crease is hard to come by. That head-shot is the best I could do, hoenstly. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 01:56, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
:There's nothing from a catalog, maybe? I don't exactly know which of the approximately 4889 plastic storage tubs I've got the old catalogs in to check... any chance of digging up his box-art? --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 02:14, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

*I have 3 catalogue advertisements for Sky Garry, but they all use the same super imposed pic of the toy. One of them has his box art, but it's thumbnail size. I uploaded it, but man is the quality something awful.

[[deleted]]

Still, if you think it's better than that saluting mugshot, I can swap it out. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 02:47, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

:... hm. Tough call. I tend to prefer main images to be at least waist-up when possible (but that's me)... hrm. Well, if we find something else later... --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 02:50, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

*Well, there IS this: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v461/TFAscans/?action=view&current=Battlestars1.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch10

But, as you can see, it's got a black line through it and story page text over parts. I could try and use that one, if you think it's the best of the crop. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 02:57, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

: Hm. Actually, I kinda like that shot in the corner of him punching a Galaman. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 03:20, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

*Alright, you think this'll work?:

[[Image:GarryGalaman1.jpg]]

--[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 03:37, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

==Site name change?==
We never actually went ahead and changed the site's name to the proper spelling: "Teletraan I". ...are we going to do that? I kinda think we should. Aurax hasn't made an edit in a long time, but I'm sure he can be contacted through [http://booknine.blogspot.com/ his website] to send somebody like Walky the PSD he used for the logo graphic so we can update it too. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 21:20, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
:Fixed! Shift-refresh yer browsers. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:07, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
::Thanks for that. No, I haven't edited much (too busy with the rest of life), but I do check in from time to time. Sorry I missed the request for this. Walky, Steve-O... if either of you want the original PSD and the fonts used, let me know and I'll fire them off to you. [[User:Aurax|Aurax]] 17:25, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I've looked through the various things I ''can'' change, and the site title does not appear to be one of them; as was noted by Sannse in [[Transformers_Wiki_talk:Community_Portal/Archive1|the first archive of this page]], it seems that the Wikia tech guys have to do that themselves. It shouldn't be very hard to figure out who should be contacted for that. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 02:27, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

== image problems ==

Am I the only one unable to see anything under the /images/ directory. All I get is a "cannot connect to server" error. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 02:43, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

It's not just you. Wikia sometimes has hosting/database glitches. It will probably pass in a day or two. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 04:11, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Fandom articles ==

I was kinda hoping that despite [[:Category:Fandom]], we'd manage to avoid articles on fandom-related things in favour of more useful content until a decent standard got figured out. Or at least only get the [[BotCon|really important stuff]] done. But I guess not. So right now there isn't really any standard as to what counts as notable enough for an article on a fandom-related topic, and maybe this is just me, but I'm not really sure that [[Chewed caramels|things that somebody]] said [[EI/AD|once on a.t.t.]] are significant enough to be worth noting here.

If it's just me, I'll shut up. Anyone else have any thoughts? --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 22:50, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I think the chewed caramel article should go. EI/AD I'm kinda borderline on. It was a pretty well established term within the internet fandom at one time, but, it's almost entirely unknown now and certainly not relevant to the contemporary fandom. It could arguably be included as a sort of "historical" thing, but, I dunno. Like I said, I'm not sure. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 23:09, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm with Brits and Steve on this. There's a lot more important things to be done... like, say, various unnamed actual canonical characters, on up to yes, BotCon and episode/comic articles. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:00, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Troo. And as I discovered, one person's 'popular in fandom' is another's 'strange and obscure', so I think if nothing else it's the sort of category we want to really consider before putting an article to. --[[User:Ratbat|Ratbat]] 01:17, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:By a similar argument, I kind of think the [[neon]] article isn't really called for, but on the other hand I personally find it amusing and don't mind it being there. [[Trukk not munky]] probably is notable, however. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 05:19, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

::Count me in as not seeing the need for anything beyond the most major of fandom notions, especially since some of these really didn't make it outside of ATT by much, if at all ("chewed caramels" and the "woobers" note on [[faceplate]] come to mind). Even TRUKK NOT MUNKY and GEEWUNNER might be skirting it a bit, although those two in particular might see a resurgence post-TF2007 movie. [[Neon]] seems to be more of a pet peeve than an actual reference point, but it's laughable enough to make it worthwhile.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 08:40, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

==Television series vs Cartoon==
At some point we will need to disambiguate the [[Scramble City]] OVA from the "toyline"/subline/toy category Scramble City. When we do, what suffix are we going to give that article? It's not a television series. We could just use (OVA), admittedly, but this is a good excuse for me to bring up something that's been bugging me for a while -- I think the suffix should be (cartoon), and I think all the "(television series)" articles should also be (cartoon). Cartoon is more succinct and more inclusive and is more parallel with "comic" (not "comic series"). It's also a lot easier to remember. I have noticed in the changelogs that I'm not the only person who can't remember "television series" as opposed to "animated series" or other similar constructions. We started out with cartoon, but then in Singularity's initial burst of doing things, before he left and came back, he moved a bunch of them to television series, and I never got around to moving them back, and now there is some inertia to the television series scheme. But I still prefer "cartoon". Anybody have an opinion one way or the other? --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 02:49, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:I prefer cartoon for the same reason. It's shorter and easier to remember, and there just isn't any advantage to using the longer one. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 05:57, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
::Thirded. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 05:59, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:::(Television series) "feels" right to me. As would (animated series), I think. (Cartoon), though of course accurate and having the advantage of being a single word, wouldn't. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 06:00, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:::To add a bit more, I think it's because (television series) or (animated series) seem more... encyclopedish... to me. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 06:04, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
::::I moved the articles to "television series" as that was what Wikipedia used. I don't particularly care about it now. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 06:17, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:I don't like "cartoon." Cartoons can be anything, from comic books to doodles to animated series. To some folks, the Marvel Comics are cartoons. I mean, heck, ''I'm'' a ''cartoonist'', that's my job, but I sure as hell don't animate anything. That's why I prefer "animated series" or "television series," just to be precise. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

==Toy Bio/Citiation==
Moved from [[Talk: Optimus Minor]]

I know I introduced a new concept with putting toy bio sections under fiction, but frequently, toy bio info contradicts other fictions, and therefore doesn't belong in the introductory paragraph. For axample, Minor's toy bio discribes him as having trouble controlling his savage animal side, but this is not displayed in the IDW comics, AND in IDW he is not a product of Megatron's cloning experiments. Is there an inherent incompatibility between a Toy Bio section and this wiki? Why is it bad to have a toy bio section? --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 15:05, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
:I agree with Crockalley: in the event where a character has a bio that doesn't match-up with his cartoon/comic portrayal, I think it is entirely appropriate to have separate section to cover that under the fiction heading. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 17:26, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

::Seconded. It makes sense when necessary. Also, sometimes bios have events that dont' belong int he bio proper. (Optimus Prime's battle int he Mirtonian constellation, for sinstance, does not belong in his main bio.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:55, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

:::Thirded. Also, can we be more aggressive about source-citing in the intro paragraph? Whenever an intro is longer than a sentence or two, I start to doubt its relevance. For instance, I'll see a bunch of suspiciously-highly-detailed info about some Nebulan's personality and history, and I'll wonder: Did this come from a Marvel TFU profile, a DW profile, an actual story, a tech-spec bio, what? As a rule, I think that ANY piece of info that only exists in one place should be confined to its continuity of origin. But, if that's too extreme a policy, then there should be citations of some sort within the intro. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 18:58, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
::::I agree. I often find myself wondering where a lot of this information comes from. If it's not under a heading in the fiction section, there's often no clues as to the information's origin. --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 19:12, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::I think that, unless we have another contradictory source, the assumption is that information is universal, which feels right to me. But getting more strict about inclusing a 'sources cited' section might not be bad. (Not necessarily footnoted, in most case that level fo distinction is unnecessary.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:42, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

::::::And my assumption regarding TF fiction is that if something is stated in only one continuity, then it's not necessarily applicable to the others. It ''can'' be, but presenting it as though it's universal limits the possibilities of all the other continuities. For instance, [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]]. His intro-paragraph presents the backstabbing-opportunist-who-everybody-hates-and-distrusts aspect of his tech-spec bio as though it applies universally. Yet there's little to no sign of that in his cartoon portrayal. He MIGHT be blackmailing other 'Cons "off-camera," but he could also be as straightforward as he seems. In fact, the "Animated continuity" section has to specifically mention he "only infrequently exhibit[ed] any traits that could be consider[ed] to be in line with his tech spec." So if it wasn't universal, why was it in the intro? I think tech-spec bios should get their own "Fiction" subsection, and for that matter, comic profiles should be separately called out within their continuities. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 20:14, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

::::::In reply to you, Derik: If the info is under the heading "Marvel Comics", that's self explanatory. But there's a lot of info that's not under a heading, and in those cases, I think it would be appropriate to indicate a source. --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 20:51, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

:::: I think the best approach is this: If there is only one real portrayle of a character (say Bumblebee) that goes at the begining. If there are different portrayles given fairly equal establishment (say Blaster, Comic vrs. Toon) then there should just be a note up top and appropriate character profiles under the respective fiction sections. If (as with OP Minor here) there's one Major fictive portrayle (IDW where there's an actual story) but then one minor that disagrees (a few techspec lines) the Major should go at the top, and then in the fiction section should be a seperate Toy Bio entry with the differnt persona. Would that make sense? [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 23:47, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::I agree fully with this. A one-sentence opening for a character page just... looks bad if there's anything that could actually fill it. Besides, it'd hardly be the first time fiction and bio didn't line up completely. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 23:56, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::Agreed --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] 00:09, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

::::::It sounds like we have a fundamental difference in taste. Not only does a short opening not look bad to me, but like I said above, the longer it is, the less I trust it. I quickly begin to suspect that it's either paraphrased from a comic profile (which seem in most cases apocryphal to the actual stories) or cobbled together from multiple continuities into a whole that doesn't really exist in any (see Soundwave again). As for OpMinor in particular: Since he gets actual characterization in only one continuity, I don't think he needs an intro at ALL. Just weave his personality traits into his "IDW Comics" bio. The only reason I can think of for an intro to even ''exist'' is if the story-bio section is too long or complicated to expect an average Wiki-surfer to read. But that's certainly not the case here, and in the places where it ''is'' the case (such as, say, [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]), there are enough universal elements supported by all continuities to construct an unobjectionable, relevant intro. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 03:13, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I see where you're coming from, you want to avoid character bios that have ca jumbled continuity. That works fine for '''most''' characters, but a character with multiple incarnations... how the hell do you write a bio without mixing continuities?
:::::::Look at [[Springer]]. He's a wise-cracking Han Solo type who thinks of hismelf a a modern knight in the cartoon, an angsty self-doubting Wrecker in the Marvel Uk comics, and a confident but non-joking team leader in Dreamwave. In the cartoon he frequently uses a sword or lance, in the Marvel comic he's a gun-wielder, in Dreamwave he actually uses the jumping abilities his bios talked about but he never used.
:::::::Where does the truth of thie character lie? The bio here tries to be as broad as possible, mentioning all hsi abilities, and putting his different characterizations into a context that makes them not seem like total contradictions, but just two sides of the same coin.
:::::::I argue that the entire '''point''' of the top bios is the give that at-a-glance no-particular-continuity view of a character. If a reader wants to knwo all the introcacies, they can read the entire entry. The point of the introduction is to '''introduce'''. And further- whu ''should'' the introduction '''choose''' one continuity to favor aboce others? "Well, there's a wide degree of variation, but this is the RIGHT one."

:::::::Also? Soundwave WAS a traitorous backstabber in almost every continuity except the sunbow cartoon and the Kids Stuff storybooks. You can argue tyhat the cartoon was so priminent that maybe the backstabber aspect of his personality shouldn't be given such a front-and-center highlighting in the introduction, I might even ''agree'' with you, but it's only a 'glaring inaccuracy' if you hold the cartoon up above all other continuities. In the UK, Soudnwave became leader of the Decepticons for a time based entirely on his worst examnple of backstabbery. That part of his personality deserves highlighting just as much as his 'loyal spearcarrier' side. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:59, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

::::::::Certainly I don't think the intros should ''favor'' one continuity over the others. Like I said, the only information that I think properly belongs in an intro is that which can be supported universally. For instance, "Shockwave is a cold, unemotional, high-ranking Decepticon who never took on a Terran alt-mode." Those statements are all evidenced by his portrayals across continuities. Since I'm in favor of keeping the intros as brief as possible, I'm happy to stop there. But if more is really called for, then I think distinctions have to be made. "Across continuities, he has been portrayed in distinctly different ways: As hyper-logical and obsessed with attaining leadership of the Earth-bound Decepticons; as steadfastly loyal to Megatron and content to maintain stewardship over Cybertron for him; or as a seemingly benevolent but iron-fisted dictator who ruled a peaceful Cybertron for ages and considered the still-battling Earth-bound TFs barbaric." This goes hand-in-hand with my earlier call for better citation. That text could easily be accompanied with footnotes or sidenotes. Or even be rewritten to include mentions of which continuities the various portrayals came from. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 06:56, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::Actually, Shockwave took a Terran alt-mode in Hearts of Steel. And probably the DW Joe crossover, too. So we're down to "Shockwave is a cold, unemotional, high-ranking Decepticon." Except sometimes he's called Shockblast. And I bet you could make the point that the cartoon didn't really convey the "cold and unemotional" aspect very well, and to state it in the top could be considered kind of misleading, so we're really down to only "Shock*." Which is really ridiculous. Are we going to be pairing down everyone's bios as new continuities are established which don't touch on every single point of a character's personality? IDW's given Dogfight lines, but they haven't shown that he's quick to anger yet. Should we dump half his profile section until they get to that part? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:57, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

: I understand where you're coming from, wanting it to be absolutely clear where a character's personality info is from, but at the same time I '''REALLY''' dislike the idea of doing away with the characterization paragraph intro. I think it's probably most likely that folks will look up a character to find out what they were like, that first techspec bio style paragraph, as much as what they did (their fiction biography). It's certainly why I'd look up an obscure character. If you hide that info or obfuscate it by diffusing it throughout the fiction's chronicle of events you make the wiki a lot less useful and helpful in many situations.

:Really characters with multiple conflicting portrayles are still BY FAR a minority across the huge spectrum of TF fiction. I see no problem in treating them as what they are: Special Cases, giving them a note to that effect, and seperate characterization profiles at the start of each fiction section. This way, the ones it is an issue for are delt with and the majority, for whom it poses no problem, maintain the more attractive and useful profile first style. [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 10:39, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I have a few comments to add to this discussion:
*This conversation probably should have been moved to [[Transformers Wiki Talk:Community Portal|the community portal's talk page]] because it concerns site-wide policies. I only randomly decided to look at it because I'm bored and it seemed like a lot of people had been posting to it. It it were posted to the portal, though, I would have known it was important.
*Toy bio information should absolutely be allowed under "Fiction".
*I wish nearly everything on the Wiki were cited, but that would be a lot of work, and also most of the editors aside from me don't like the idea of "breaking the fourth wall" by giving citations.
*I like that our character pages have an intro, and I like that it is a continuity-nonspecific overview of the character's personality. As Walky describes, we can't really limit the intro to things which we know are correct in all continuities, because there's always going to be some "minor" universe where it isn't true and you end up with nothing to say at all.
*On the other hand, if some portrayals are ''vastly'' different than others, then (as the discussion seems to be settling on) I think there should be some sort of statement of that before the table of contents. I don't know how to do that without breaking the fourth wall. I also don't care. But some of you do.
*Like Jackpot, I don't like it when the intros get long, although my threshold is higher than his. A three paragraph "overview" is excessive except for especially notable characters ([[Optimus Primal]] and [[Megatron (BW)]] both have long, but appropriate introductions). I don't mind an intro which is only two sentences. If that's all there is that can really be said without pushing into inaccurate continuity-melding, then so be it. The intro for [[Omega Supreme (G1)]], for example, seems quite sufficient to me.
*There's no reason that a "Fiction" subsection can't start with a personality overview instead of diving right into a list of events in those cases where a separate overview is needed.
--[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 02:53, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

== Currency ==
How do people feel about requiring that any instances of price listings include a clarifier of which currency is being used? In practice, all this would mean is changing the instances of ''$'' to ''US$'', just to distinguish between all of those other countries that also use dollars. Also, by giving a clear point of reference, it mean we avoid the cumbersome silliness of potentially listing any prices in every major currency. Triganic Pu, anyone? --[[User:Sofaman|Sofaman]] 08:41, 9 October 2006 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Size class

2006-10-09T08:31:19Z

Sofaman: Added Scout size-class for Classics, since that's presumably what the upcoming Minicon teams will be released as.

'''Size class''' is how [[Hasbro]] determines the size and price of a toy. It also determines the amount of budget spent on the production of a toy, such as paint or electronics.

Size class has not been consistent from line to line, with names often changed to affect marketability.

==Beast Wars==
''[[Beast Wars (toyline)|Beast Wars]]'' had five size classes. The cheapest, with the price around US$5, was Basic. Deluxe was the next cheapest, being around US$10 in price. The two smallest classes are sold on cards to this day. The next step is Mega, with a price of US$15. Toys of this size were often [[shelfwarmer]]s. Only six toys were sold as the next largest size, Ultra, with a price of US$20. The largest size, Super, was only attained by one toy, [[Optimal Optimus]], which was sold for US$35. All of the classes larger than Deluxe were, and are, sold in boxes.

==Beast Machines==
''[[Beast Machines (toyline)|Beast Machines]]'' continued ''Beast Wars''<nowiki>'</nowiki> size classes, but increased the price of Basic to US$7. Supreme was introduced as a US$40 size class; [[Cheetor (BW)|Cheetor]] was the only Supreme in this line; a Supreme [[Optimus Primal]] toy was planned to be in this line, but was moved to ''Robots in Disguise''. Two other size classes were added, [[Deployer]]s and [[Beast Rider]]s. The size of Ultra toys were increased while maintaining the price.

==Robots in Disguise==
''[[Robots in Disguise (toyline)|Robots in Disguise]]'' used the ''Beast Wars'' size classes, with an added US$3 price point for individual [[Spychanger]]s.

==Armada==
''[[Armada (toyline)|Armada]]'' discontinued the Mega size class and gave new names to some size classes. Deluxe was renamed Supercon and Ultra to Maxcon. The US$25 size class was introduced as Gigacon. Basics were replaced with packs of three [[Mini-Con]]s. The US$40 class was renamed "Super-Base", and the US$50 class was introduced as "Chaos Bringer". There was also a US$15 price point for the Roleplay Star Saber swords and [[Laserbeak (Armada)|Laserbeak]].

==Universe==
''[[Universe]]'' used the ''Beast Wars'' size classes, but only had Deluxe and Ultra. Some [[exclusive]] toys, such as [[Sunstorm (Universe)|Sunstorm]] with [[Perceptor (Universe)|Perceptor]], and [[Ruination]] were sold in their own size class.

==Energon==
''[[Energon (toyline)|Energon]]'' returned to the ''Beast Wars'' naming, and brought Basics back. However, "Supreme" was used for the US$50 class, "Super" for the US$40 class, "Ultra" for the US$25 class, and "Mega" was used for the US$20 size class

==Cybertron==
''[[Cybertron (toyline)|Cybertron]]'' changed the naming of some size classes, but retained Deluxe, Ultra, and Supreme. Basic was changed to Scout, Mega to Voyager, and Super to Leader. A new class, Mini-Con, was added for the Minicon two-packs, and was set at US$5. The Legends of Cybertron figures are set at US$4 at Toys "R" Us, but varied at the drug stores the figures were first released at.

==Classics==
''Classics'' is said to only have the Scout, Deluxe and Voyager size classes.
[[Category:Toys]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Doubledealer

2006-10-09T04:27:55Z

Sofaman:

:''Doubledealer is an [[Autobot]] and a [[Decepticon]] in [[Generation One]] continuity.''

'''Doubledealer''' is unique among Transformers as he holds a place in both the Autobot and Decepticon armies. The truth, however, is that this ruthless mechanoid is loyal only to whoever is paying him, and then only if no better offer catches his eye. His skills and power make him a valuable asset to both sides, but neither really trust him as far as they could throw a [[Guardian Robot]]. Doubledealer is also unique among [[Powermasters]] in possessing two binary bonded powermaster partners: [[Knok]] unlocks his humanoid Autobot mode, while the bat-creature [[Skar]] unlocks his transformation into a Decepticon falcon. His default alternate mode is a futuristic missle truck armed with an intercontinental ballistic missile.

== Fiction ==

===Marvel Comics continuity===

Doubledealer appears in one black and white UK back-up story, where he cons both Autobots and Decepticons into situations that allow him to make a good profit.

===Dreamwave comics continuity===

He does not appear in any actual DW stories, but in their "More Than Meets The Eye" profile book it is revealed that he carefully chose his partners to best represent him to each faction. Neither Knok or Skar knows of the other's existance, nor of their master's double life (something that seems to conflict with the Marvel UK story). Also, his two partners are described as being a loyal Autobot and Decepticon respectively and are drawn to appear totally robotic. The profile seems to suggest that they are Cybertronians themselves, and not organic beings as all other Powermaster partners have been portrayed. How exactly the powermaster process would opperate between mechanoids is unknown.

== Notes ==
Though his toy bio and all other material describe his Decepticon bird mode as a "falcon" the head of the toy actually looks like a vulture, which would seem more fitting given his mercenary nature.

His partner Skar is the only non-humanoid powermaster partner in US canon. However, several other animal-like Headmaster partners were sold in Japan and are considered rarities.

[[Category: Powermasters]]
[[Category: Autobots]]
[[Category: Decepticons]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Slamdance (G1)

2006-10-09T03:39:12Z

Sofaman: added link for MacGuffin

''Slamdance is an [[Autobot]] in the [[Generation 1]] continuity.''

'''Slamdance''' is not a great warrior, but he is a brilliant journalist. The combined form of [[Grand Slam (G1)|Grand Slam]] and [[Raindance (G1)|Raindance]], he combines the former's gravitas and vanity with the latter's mastery in data gathering. He can be a bit stuffy, but his dedication to presenting an accurate and unbiased account of current events is welcomed in his war-tossed times. He keeps the Autobots honest.

=Fiction=
===Marvel Comics continuity===
Slamdance did not appear in his combined form, but his components Grand Slam and Raindance did. And only in cassette modes. And they were [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macguffin MacGuffins].
===Dreamwave Comics continuity===
====War Within: The Dark Ages====

=Toys=
* '''Slamdance'''

=External links=
* [http://www.tfu.info/1988/Autobot/Slamdance/slamdance.htm Slamdance at TFU.info]

{{stub}}

[[Category: Autobots]]
[[Category: Combiners]]
[[Category: Journalists]]
[[Category: Mini-Cassettes]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

User:Sofaman

2006-10-08T10:44:12Z

Sofaman:

[[Image:Sofaman-bb.jpg|right|thumb|250px|Make yourself comfortable!]]
[[Image:Sofaman-alt.jpg|right|thumb|250px|Combines with any Beast warrior, who needs to take a load off and maybe have a beer]]
Sofaman has been collecting Transformers for far far too long. He also has talented illustrator friends who make him cool avatars.<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

File:Sofaman-bb.jpg

2006-10-08T10:37:51Z

Sofaman: Sofaman robot avatar

Sofaman robot avatar<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Mutant (BW)

2006-10-08T10:32:26Z

Sofaman: /* ''Universe: The Wreckers'' comics */ Corrected link to Sharkticon

{{disambig2|the robot mode-less faction|the sub-Cybertron marauders|Mutant (G1)}}

[[Image:Mutants symbol.png|thumb|SCIENCE!]]

The '''Mutants''' (also commonly referred to as '''Mutant Beasts''') are a powerful group of beast warriors who've lost their robot modes, but are able to transform between two beast modes. Led by Icebird, the mutants seek to create a purely organic existence. The mutants don't belong to either faction, and will attack [[Predacon]]s on sight, but they tolerate the [[Maximal]]s as a necessary component of their goals.

Members are:

*[[Icebird]]
*[[Poison Bite]]
*[[Razor Claw (Mutant)|Razor Claw]]
*[[Soundwave (BW)|Soundwave]]

==Fiction==

===Toy Bios===

[[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]] developed an anti-conversion virus, intended to prevent the infected host converting into robot mode, resulting in eventual shutdown. The Mutants were previously Fuzors, and the virus reacted in an unanticipated way with their physiognomy; it caused their conversion abilities to change, trapping their robot modes inside two different beast modes. The virus also bestowed 'potent extrasensory powers' upon the Mutants, with each member having unique abilities.

The Mutants are on Cybertron during the events of [[Beast Machines]]. (Their creation via Megatron's virus is a direct reference to the Beast Machines cartoon, as are mentions of the [[Oracle]] in their bios.)

===''Universe: The Wreckers'' comics===
[[Image:Wreckers Mutants.jpg|thumb|200px|Now you see them, now you don't.]]
The Mutants report along with the [[Dinobot (BM)| Dinobots]] and the [[Wreckers]] to the Oracle and are given a mission to fullfill: to save Cybertron's future. It was all a set-up however, by [[Cryotek]] and the [[Quintessons]], and the Mutants are led instead to their apparent deaths by [[Sharkticon (G1)|Sharkticons]].

===''[[The Gathering|Beast Wars: The Gathering]]''===
The remaining [[Stasis pod|stasis pods]] from the [[Axalon]] were activated by [[Razorbeast]]. The majority of the newly-born Transformers were either Maximal or Predacon. But a few were born Mutants. They fiercly defend their swamp against intruding Predacons, making it clear that no Transformer is welcome in their peaceful home.

''(This continuity is alone in portraying the Mutants as Beast Wars, rather than Beast Machines era characters.)''

== Toys ==
The four toys in this sub-group were originally designed for the ill-fated [[Animorphs]] toyline, and upon its failure were slightly retooled and brought over to Transformers. They have a couple of common features. Each toy had a robot head hidden somewhere within its body, to indicate that their personas were still essentially sentient rather than bestial. Also, three of the four toys had flip-up panels underneath their Mutant insignia, which were lifted to reveal robotic components (to convey they were still essentially robots, although they lacked a 'robot' mode); for some reason Razor Claw lacked this feature.

[[Category: Beast Machines]]
[[Category: Beast Wars]]
[[Category: Factions]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Razor Claw

2006-10-08T10:29:52Z

Sofaman:

{{disambig3|Razorclaw}}
:''Razor Claw is a [[Mutant (BW)|Mutant]] from the [[Beast Wars]] portion of the [[Generation 1]] continuity family''

'''Razor Claw''' is loyal, self-sacrificing warrior, who fights with crusader-like enthusiasm. He harbours a secret jealously towards those Transformers who still possess a robot mode. As a wolverine, his tremendous speed borders on teleportation. As a velociraptor, he is impervious to firepower.

==Fiction==

===Universe===

''('''Note''': Their toy package blurbs and character bios, as well as the 3H [[Universe]] comics, place the Mutants on Cybertron during the events of [[Beast Machines]]. (Their creation via Megatron's virus is a direct reference to the Beast Machines cartoon, as are mentions of the [[Oracle]] in their bios.) The IDW Beast Wars comics place them instead on prehistoric Earth during Beast Wars. It is unclear if this is a [[retcon]] or will be explained at a later date. It should also be noted that Razor Claw is the only Mutant not to have appeared so far in the IDW Beast Wars comics.
''

== Toys ==
=== Beast Wars ===
* '''Razor Claw''' (Mutant, 1999)
:Razor Claw was a [[deluxe]]-sized toy, and could transform between a velociraptor and a wolverine. His robot head could be revealed by lifting the top of the velociraptor head. He lacked the 'hidden robot parts' feature shared by the other 3 Mutant toys.

<div style="margin:0 1em; padding:.5em; background:#f7f8ff; border:thin solid #aaa">''This article is a [[:Category:Stub|stub]]. You can help '''{{SITENAME}}''' by [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit}} expanding it].''</div>
<includeonly>[[Category:Stub]]</includeonly>

[[Category: Beast Machines]]
[[Category:Beast Wars characters]]
[[Category:Universe]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Razor Claw

2006-10-08T10:28:22Z

Sofaman:

{{disambig3|Razorclaw}}
:''Razor Claw is a [[Mutant (BW)|Mutant]] from the [[Beast Wars]] portion of the [[Generation 1]] continuity family''

'''Razorclaw''' is loyal, self-sacrificing warrior, who fights with crusader-like enthusiasm. He harbours a secret jealously towards those Transformers who still possess a robot mode. As a wolverine, his tremendous speed borders on teleportation. As a velociraptor, he is impervious to firepower.

==Fiction==

===Universe===

''('''Note''': Their toy package blurbs and character bios, as well as the 3H [[Universe]] comics, place the Mutants on Cybertron during the events of [[Beast Machines]]. (Their creation via Megatron's virus is a direct reference to the Beast Machines cartoon, as are mentions of the [[Oracle]] in their bios.) The IDW Beast Wars comics place them instead on prehistoric Earth during Beast Wars. It is unclear if this is a [[retcon]] or will be explained at a later date. It should also be noted that Razor Claw is the only Mutant not to have appeared so far in the IDW Beast Wars comics.
''

== Toys ==
=== Beast Wars ===
* '''Razor Claw''' (Mutant, 1999)
:Razor Claw was a [[deluxe]]-sized toy, and could transform between a velociraptor and a wolverine. His robot head could be revealed by lifting the top of the velociraptor head. He lacked the 'hidden robot parts' feature shared by the other 3 Mutant toys.

<div style="margin:0 1em; padding:.5em; background:#f7f8ff; border:thin solid #aaa">''This article is a [[:Category:Stub|stub]]. You can help '''{{SITENAME}}''' by [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit}} expanding it].''</div>
<includeonly>[[Category:Stub]]</includeonly>

[[Category: Beast Machines]]
[[Category:Beast Wars characters]]
[[Category:Universe]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Mutant (BW)

2006-10-08T09:57:03Z

Sofaman: /* Toys */

{{disambig2|the robot mode-less faction|the sub-Cybertron marauders|Mutant (G1)}}

[[Image:Mutants symbol.png|thumb|SCIENCE!]]

The '''Mutants''' (also commonly referred to as '''Mutant Beasts''') are a powerful group of beast warriors who've lost their robot modes, but are able to transform between two beast modes. Led by Icebird, the mutants seek to create a purely organic existence. The mutants don't belong to either faction, and will attack [[Predacon]]s on sight, but they tolerate the [[Maximal]]s as a necessary component of their goals.

Members are:

*[[Icebird]]
*[[Poison Bite]]
*[[Razor Claw (Mutant)|Razor Claw]]
*[[Soundwave (BW)|Soundwave]]

==Fiction==

===Toy Bios===

[[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]] developed an anti-conversion virus, intended to prevent the infected host converting into robot mode, resulting in eventual shutdown. The Mutants were previously Fuzors, and the virus reacted in an unanticipated way with their physiognomy; it caused their conversion abilities to change, trapping their robot modes inside two different beast modes. The virus also bestowed 'potent extrasensory powers' upon the Mutants, with each member having unique abilities.

The Mutants are on Cybertron during the events of [[Beast Machines]]. (Their creation via Megatron's virus is a direct reference to the Beast Machines cartoon, as are mentions of the [[Oracle]] in their bios.)

===''Universe: The Wreckers'' comics===
[[Image:Wreckers Mutants.jpg|thumb|200px|Now you see them, now you don't.]]
The Mutants report along with the [[Dinobot (BM)| Dinobots]] and the [[Wreckers]] to the Oracle and are given a mission to fullfill: to save Cybertron's future. It was all a set-up however, by [[Cryotek]] and the [[Quintessons]], and the Mutants are lead instead to their apparent deaths by [[Sharkticon]]s.

===''[[The Gathering|Beast Wars: The Gathering]]''===
The remaining [[Stasis pod|stasis pods]] from the [[Axalon]] were activated by [[Razorbeast]]. The majority of the newly-born Transformers were either Maximal or Predacon. But a few were born Mutants. They fiercly defend their swamp against intruding Predacons, making it clear that no Transformer is welcome in their peaceful home.

''(This continuity is alone in portraying the Mutants as Beast Wars, rather than Beast Machines era characters.)''

== Toys ==
The four toys in this sub-group were originally designed for the ill-fated [[Animorphs]] toyline, and upon its failure were slightly retooled and brought over to Transformers. They have a couple of common features. Each toy had a robot head hidden somewhere within its body, to indicate that their personas were still essentially sentient rather than bestial. Also, three of the four toys had flip-up panels underneath their Mutant insignia, which were lifted to reveal robotic components (to convey they were still essentially robots, although they lacked a 'robot' mode); for some reason Razor Claw lacked this feature.

[[Category: Beast Machines]]
[[Category: Beast Wars]]
[[Category: Factions]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Mutant (BW)

2006-10-08T09:56:20Z

Sofaman: Eliminated redundant link for Icebird

{{disambig2|the robot mode-less faction|the sub-Cybertron marauders|Mutant (G1)}}

[[Image:Mutants symbol.png|thumb|SCIENCE!]]

The '''Mutants''' (also commonly referred to as '''Mutant Beasts''') are a powerful group of beast warriors who've lost their robot modes, but are able to transform between two beast modes. Led by Icebird, the mutants seek to create a purely organic existence. The mutants don't belong to either faction, and will attack [[Predacon]]s on sight, but they tolerate the [[Maximal]]s as a necessary component of their goals.

Members are:

*[[Icebird]]
*[[Poison Bite]]
*[[Razor Claw (Mutant)|Razor Claw]]
*[[Soundwave (BW)|Soundwave]]

==Fiction==

===Toy Bios===

[[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]] developed an anti-conversion virus, intended to prevent the infected host converting into robot mode, resulting in eventual shutdown. The Mutants were previously Fuzors, and the virus reacted in an unanticipated way with their physiognomy; it caused their conversion abilities to change, trapping their robot modes inside two different beast modes. The virus also bestowed 'potent extrasensory powers' upon the Mutants, with each member having unique abilities.

The Mutants are on Cybertron during the events of [[Beast Machines]]. (Their creation via Megatron's virus is a direct reference to the Beast Machines cartoon, as are mentions of the [[Oracle]] in their bios.)

===''Universe: The Wreckers'' comics===
[[Image:Wreckers Mutants.jpg|thumb|200px|Now you see them, now you don't.]]
The Mutants report along with the [[Dinobot (BM)| Dinobots]] and the [[Wreckers]] to the Oracle and are given a mission to fullfill: to save Cybertron's future. It was all a set-up however, by [[Cryotek]] and the [[Quintessons]], and the Mutants are lead instead to their apparent deaths by [[Sharkticon]]s.

===''[[The Gathering|Beast Wars: The Gathering]]''===
The remaining [[Stasis pod|stasis pods]] from the [[Axalon]] were activated by [[Razorbeast]]. The majority of the newly-born Transformers were either Maximal or Predacon. But a few were born Mutants. They fiercly defend their swamp against intruding Predacons, making it clear that no Transformer is welcome in their peaceful home.

''(This continuity is alone in portraying the Mutants as Beast Wars, rather than Beast Machines era characters.)''

== Toys ==
The four toys in this sub-group were originally designed for the ill-fated [[Animorphs]] toyline, and upon it's failure were slightly retooled and brought over to Transformers. They have a couple of common features. Each toy had a robot head hidden somewhere within its body, to indicate that their personas were still essentially sentient rather than bestial. Also, three of the four toys had flip-up panels underneath their Mutant insignia, which were lifted to reveal robotic components (to convey they were still essentially robots, although they lacked a 'robot' mode); for some reason Razor Claw lacked this feature.

[[Category: Beast Machines]]
[[Category: Beast Wars]]
[[Category: Factions]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Soundwave (BW)

2006-10-08T09:53:06Z

Sofaman:

{{disambig3|Soundwave}}
:''Soundwave is a [[Mutant (BW)|Mutant]] from the [[Beast Wars]] portion of the [[Generation 1]] continuity family''

[[Image:Bw_soundwave.jpg|right|thumb|250px|You want fries with that?]]
'''Soundwave''' is a brooder, like his fellows, with a tendency towards the dramatic. Has ultra-sensitive internal radar, and tail can send seismic shockwaves through the ground.

==Fiction==

===Universe===

===IDW Comics===

''('''Note''': Their toy package blurbs and character bios, as well as the 3H [[Universe]] comics, place the Mutants on Cybertron during the events of [[Beast Machines]]. (Their creation via Megatron's virus is a direct reference to the Beast Machines cartoon, as are mentions of the [[Oracle]] in their bios.) The IDW Beast Wars comics place them instead on prehistoric Earth during Beast Wars. It is unclear if this is a [[retcon]] or will be explained at a later date.
''

== Toys ==
=== Beast Wars ===
* '''Soundwave''' (Mutant, 1999)
:Soundwave was a [[deluxe]]-sized toy, and could transform between an bat and an alligator. He had a panel on the chest of his bat mode that could be lifted to reveal mechanical parts. His robot face could be revealed within the bat's mouth by pressing a spine on the back of the bat head.

<div style="margin:0 1em; padding:.5em; background:#f7f8ff; border:thin solid #aaa">''This article is a [[:Category:Stub|stub]]. You can help '''{{SITENAME}}''' by [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit}} expanding it].''</div>
<includeonly>[[Category:Stub]]</includeonly>

[[Category: Beast Machines]]
[[Category:Beast Wars characters]]
[[Category:Universe]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

File:Bw soundwave.jpg

2006-10-08T09:46:42Z

Sofaman: Panel from IDW's "Beast Wars: The Gathering" #3

Panel from IDW's "Beast Wars: The Gathering" #3<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Poison Bite

2006-10-08T09:05:35Z

Sofaman: Added powers

:''Poison Bite is a [[Mutant (BW)|Mutant]] from the [[Beast Wars]] portion of the [[Generation 1]] continuity family''

[[Image:Bw_poisonbite.jpg|right|thumb|250px|Poison Bite politely requests some respect for his personal space]]
'''Poison Bite''' is the Mutant's special operative. He seems to be more religiously-inclined that his fellow mutants, as he accepts the Mutant mission as part of a higher vision, but also feels abandoned by the [[Oracle]]. He often broods about what he believes is the approaching extinction of the Mutants, but despite his seeming pessimism, he is well-liked by his fellows. He can teleport up to 30 metres in either mode.

==Fiction==

===Universe===

===IDW Comics===

''('''Note''': Their toy package blurbs and character bios, as well as the 3H [[Universe]] comics, place the Mutants on Cybertron during the events of [[Beast Machines]]. (Their creation via Megatron's virus is a direct reference to the Beast Machines cartoon, as are mentions of the Oracle in their bios.) The IDW Beast Wars comics place them instead on prehistoric Earth during Beast Wars. It is unclear if this is a [[retcon]] or will be explained at a later date.
''

== Toys ==
=== Beast Wars ===
* '''Poison Bite''' (Mutant, 1999)
:Poison Bite was a [[deluxe]]-sized toy, and could transform between a scorpion and a barracuda. He had a small panel on his right scorpion claw that could be lifted to reveal mechanical parts. The robot face could be revealed by pressing the stinger tip on the scorpion tail.

<div style="margin:0 1em; padding:.5em; background:#f7f8ff; border:thin solid #aaa">''This article is a [[:Category:Stub|stub]]. You can help '''{{SITENAME}}''' by [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit}} expanding it].''</div>
<includeonly>[[Category:Stub]]</includeonly>

[[Category: Beast Machines]]
[[Category:Beast Wars characters]]
[[Category:Universe]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Icebird

2006-10-08T05:58:28Z

Sofaman: Added location of robot head

:''Icebird is a [[Mutant (BW)|Mutant]] from the [[Beast Wars]] portion of the [[Generation 1]] continuity family''

[[Image:Bw_icebird.jpg|right|thumb|250px|Icebird dislikes surprises]]
'''Icebird''' is the wise and powerful leader of the Mutants, though he resents his inability to return to robot mode. He has as a goal to eschew technology completely and evolve to a completely organic existence. As a side-effect of his mutation, he is able to read minds & communicate telepathically, shut down machinery at will, and become invisible.

==Fiction==

===Universe===

===IDW Comics===

''('''Note''': Their toy package blurbs and character bios, as well as the 3H [[Universe]] comics, place the Mutants on Cybertron during the events of [[Beast Machines]]. (Their creation via Megatron's virus is a direct reference to the Beast Machines cartoon, as are mentions of the [[Oracle]] in their bios.) The IDW Beast Wars comics place them instead on prehistoric Earth during Beast Wars. It is unclear if this is a [[retcon]] or will be explained at a later date.
''

== Toys ==
=== Beast Wars ===
* '''Icebird''' (Mutant, 1999)
:Icebird was a [[deluxe]]-sized toy, and could transform between an owl and a polar bear. He had a small panel on his front right bear leg that could be lifted to reveal mechanical parts. His robot head could be revealed by lifting the panel behind the polar bear head.

<div style="margin:0 1em; padding:.5em; background:#f7f8ff; border:thin solid #aaa">''This article is a [[:Category:Stub|stub]]. You can help '''{{SITENAME}}''' by [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit}} expanding it].''</div>
<includeonly>[[Category:Stub]]</includeonly>

[[Category:Beast Wars characters]]
[[Category:Universe]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Poison Bite

2006-10-08T05:56:16Z

Sofaman:

:''Poison Bite is a [[Mutant (BW)|Mutant]] from the [[Beast Wars]] portion of the [[Generation 1]] continuity family''

[[Image:Bw_poisonbite.jpg|right|thumb|250px|Poison Bite politely requests some respect for his personal space]]
'''Poison Bite''' is the Mutant's special operative. He seems to be more religiously-inclined that his fellow mutants, as he accepts the Mutant mission as part of a higher vision, but also feels abandoned by the [[Oracle]]. He often broods about what he believes is the approaching extinction of the Mutants, but despite his seeming pessimism, he is well-liked by his fellows.

==Fiction==

===Universe===

===IDW Comics===

''('''Note''': Their toy package blurbs and character bios, as well as the 3H [[Universe]] comics, place the Mutants on Cybertron during the events of [[Beast Machines]]. (Their creation via Megatron's virus is a direct reference to the Beast Machines cartoon, as are mentions of the [[Oracle]] in their bios.) The IDW Beast Wars comics place them instead on prehistoric Earth during Beast Wars. It is unclear if this is a [[retcon]] or will be explained at a later date.
''

== Toys ==
=== Beast Wars ===
* '''Poison Bite''' (Mutant, 1999)
:Poison Bite was a [[deluxe]]-sized toy, and could transform between a scorpion and a barracuda. He had a small panel on his right scorpion claw that could be lifted to reveal mechanical parts. The robot face could be revealed by pressing the stinger tip on the scorpion tail.

<div style="margin:0 1em; padding:.5em; background:#f7f8ff; border:thin solid #aaa">''This article is a [[:Category:Stub|stub]]. You can help '''{{SITENAME}}''' by [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit}} expanding it].''</div>
<includeonly>[[Category:Stub]]</includeonly>

[[Category:Beast Wars characters]]
[[Category:Universe]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

File:Bw poisonbite.jpg

2006-10-08T05:39:38Z

Sofaman: Panel from IDW's "Beast Wars: The Gathering" #3