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Ramjet (G1)/toys

2023-04-05T01:09:41Z

Spectre:

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[[File:G1 boxart Ramjet.jpg|upright=1.5|thumb]]

As a [[Conehead]] [[Seeker (body-type)|Seeker]], '''Ramjet''' less often receives a toy whenever [[Starscream (G1)/toys|Starscream]] does.

==Toys==
===''The Transformers''===
{{anchor|Generation 1}}
[[File:G1Ramjet toy.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|'Conehead' or 'Not Conehead']]
*'''Ramjet''' (1985, 1986, 1990)
**''Takara ID number:'' '''D-56'''
**''Accessories:'' 2 "Cluster Bombs", 2 fists (left & right), 2 wings (left & right), 2 tail fins (left & right), front landing gear
{{toydesigner|[[Kōjin Ōno]] (TakaraTomy, original mold)|[[Takayoshi Doi]] (TakaraTomy, new accessories)}}

:The original Ramjet toy is a [[retool]] of the ''[[Diaclone]]'' "Jet Robo Acrobat-Type" F-15 Eagle that was used for [[Starscream (G1)/toys#The Transformers|Starscream]], [[Thundercracker (G1)/toys#The Transformers|Thundercracker]], and [[Skywarp (G1)/toys#The Transformers|Skywarp]], with new wings that seem to be inspired by the prototype {{w|F-16XL}}, and new "Cluster Bombs" (though his [[The_Transformers_Universe|TFU]] profile states they are also laser beam rifles for his robot mode). He is otherwise identical to the other Decepticon jets aside from color. Ramjet's robot mode stickers are the same design as Starscream's, but in different colors.

:In [[robot mode]] his official instructions have the user pulling down his nose cone to complete his head transformation, like Starscream. However, Ramjet's character model depicts him as having his head untransformed, leaving a distinctive "conehead" shape to his appearance. This trait is shared by [[Thrust (G1)/toys#The Transformers|Thrust]] and [[Dirge (G1)/toys#The Transformers|Dirge]], leading many owners to do the same thing to differentiate the three later Decepticon jets from the three earlier ones.Ğ

: The [[Joustra]] version of Ramjet, released in parts of mainland Europe in 1986, has a number of small changes from the [[Hasbro]]/[[Takara]] version, most notably a hard-plastic nosecone (ouch!) and unchromed black landing gear wheels.

: Ramjet was reissued in his original packaging in Australia in 1990.

::*''[http://www.transformerland.com/wiki/toy-info/transformers-g1-decepticon-jets-ramjet/743/ Patent info, price guide, and further reading on Ramjet at Transformerland.com]''
::*''[http://tfu.info/1985/Decepticon/Ramjet/ramjet.htm More information on Ramjet at TFU.info]''
{{G1SeekerMold}}
{{-}}

===''Generation 2''===
[[File:G2 Ramjet toy.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|'90s fashion victim.]]
*'''Ramjet''' (Decepticon Jet, 1993 / 1994)
**''Accessories:'' 2 missile launchers, 2 missiles, 2 fists (left & right), 2 wings (left & right), 2 tail fins, front landing gear, sound effects box

:For the ''[[Transformers: Generation 2 (toyline)|Generation 2]]'' toyline, Ramjet was [[redeco]]ed with the purple replacing white, black replacing burgundy, and sky blue replacing the original black, leaving him to appear as if he were Skeletor's personal aircraft. Still, he features new firing missile launchers and a sound effects box which is mounted above his engines. These parts were also used on the ''Generation 2'' release of [[Starscream (G1)/toys#Generation 2|Starscream]].

:Of note is the fact that his sky blue parts are extremely prone to [[Photodegradation|''yellowing'']], or in this case ''greening''. Many ''Generation 2'' Ramjets can be found with their blue parts in a teal color.

:This version of the mold would also have been used to make ''Generation 2'' [[Sandstorm (G2)#Toys|Sandstorm]].

::*''[http://tfu.info/1993/Decepticon/Ramjet/ramjet.htm G2 Ramjet at TFU.info]''
{{G1SeekerMold}}
{{-}}

===''Collector's Edition''===
*'''Ramjet''' (2001)
**''ID number:'' '''Set D'''
**''Accessories'': 2 "Cluster Bombs", 2 fists (left & right), 2 wings (left & right), 2 tail fins (left & right), front landing gear

:Ramjet received a limited reissue as part of [[TakaraTomy|Takara]]'s ''[[The Transformers: Collector's Edition|Collector's Edition]]'' series. With no notable changes from the G1 release, ''Collector's Edition'' Ramjet was [[exclusive]]ly available at Jaf-Con 10 in July 2001, along with Thrust.
{{G1SeekerMold}}
{{-}}

===''Classics''===
{{anchor|Classics (2006)}}
[[File:Classics Ramjet toy.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|The flared pants craze strikes again]]
*'''Ramjet''' (Deluxe Class, 2007)
**''Accessories:'' 2 missile launchers (left & right), 2 missiles
{{toydesigner|[[Eric Siebenaler]] (Hasbro)|[[Don Figueroa]] (concept artist)}}

:''[[Transformers: Classics|Classics]]'' Ramjet, following the trend set by his original Generation 1 toy, is a retool of ''Classics'' [[Starscream (G1)/toys#Classics|Starscream]] and transforms into a modified fighter jet based off the hull of an F-15 Eagle. The figure's deco is greatly simplified from Ramjet's G1 toy and cartoon decos, largely reducing the amount of black and red in favor of white. Aside from the different deco, changes from Starscream include a new nose cone/head, new F-16XL inspired wings and new projectiles for his missile launchers. The new missiles, combined with their launchers, result in a mash-up between his G1 toy's non-firing weapons and his animation model's standard-issue Seeker rifles. Unlike Starscream, his shoulder movement is unimpeded due to a lack of wings behind his shoulders.

:As with most ''Classics'' toys, he features a heat-sensitive [[rubsign]].

:Ramjet's instructions neglect a couple of features on his toy; the wings can swivel back and forth and up and down in robot mode, to better balance the figure, and the circular air intakes on his chest can swivel out in either mode. The latter is used to form landing gear in his [[alternate mode|vehicle mode]], as it was in both Starscream and Skywarp.

::*''[http://tfu.info/2007/Decepticon/ClassicsRamjet/ramjet.htm Classics Ramjet at TFU.info]''
{{ClassicsSeekerMold}}
{{-}}

===''Henkei! Henkei!''===
[[File:Henkei Ramjet toy.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Beware the man in white]]
*'''Ramjet''' ([[July 17]], [[2008]])
**''ID number:'' '''D-04'''
**''Accessories:'' 2 missile launchers (left & right), 2 missiles

:''[[Henkei! Henkei! Transformers (toyline)|Henkei! Henkei!]] Transformers'' Ramjet is a redeco of ''Classics'' Deluxe Class Ramjet. He features a significantly altered color scheme, generally to make the toy even more closely resemble his appearance in the Generation 1 cartoon. His wings and missiles are molded in bright red plastic instead of gray plastic with red paint, with his missiles painted gray. His hands and feet are molded in white plastic instead of gray, to match more closely the cartoon model. Despite the figure's appearance, ''Henkei!'' Ramjet features no gray plastic at all, only white or red plastic painted gray, meaning he is is heavily painted and thus easily succeptable to paint chipping. Ramjet, like the other figures in the line features vacuum-metalized parts, his jet boosters and vertical stabilizers on his wings and his cockpit seat are chrome plated, though it is not uncommon for the innards of his jet boosters to be partially lacking the metalized coating. As ''Henkei!'' toys do not feature heat-sensitive rubsigns, ''Henkei'' Ramjet has five Decepticon sigils tampographed total, one each on the top side and under side of his two wings and one in front of his canopy.

:Ramjet was retooled into ''Gentei! Gentei!'' [[Thrust (G1)/toys#Henkei! Henkei!|Thrust]] and [[Dirge (G1)/toys#Henkei! Henkei!|Dirge]].
{{-}}

===''Universe'' (2008)===
[[File:Universe-AR-Ramjet.JPG|upright=1.66|thumb]]
*'''Aerial Rivals''' (Multi-pack, 2008)
**''Series'': '''Classic Series'''
{{toydesigner|[[Joe Kyde]] (deco artist)}}

:A [[redeco]] of ''[[Transformers: Cybertron (toyline)|Cybertron]]'' [[Legends Class (2005)|Legends of Cybertron]] [[Starscream (Armada)/toys#LOC|Starscream]], [[Transformers: Universe (2008 toyline)|''Universe'']] Ramjet transforms into a Cybertronic "tetrajet". His wings, which end up on his arms in robot mode, each feature a swing-out weapon; the right arm has a blade, while the left has a (non-firing) cannon. He was only available in a [[Target]]-[[exclusive]] five-pack with [[Air Raid (G1)#Universe (2008)|Air Raid]], [[Blades (G1)#LOC|Autobot Blades]], [[Skydive (G1 Aerialbot)#Universe (2008)|Skydive]], and [[Thrust (G1)/toys#Universe (2008)|Thrust]] (who shares his mold).

:Aside from Thrust, this mold was also used to make ''Cybertron'' [[Skywarp (Armada)#Cybertron|Skywarp]], [[Sunstorm (Universe)#Cybertron|Sunstorm]], & [[Ramjet (Universe)#Cybertron|Ramjet]], ''[[Transformers: War for Cybertron (franchise)#Toys|War for Cybertron]]'' [[Starscream (WFC)#War for Cybertron|Starscream]], and [[Transformers: Dark of the Moon (toyline)|''Dark of the Moon'']] [[Starscream (Movie)/toys#BeeStarscream|Cybertronian Starscream]].

::*''[http://tfu.info/2008/Decepticon/TFURamjet/ramjet.htm Universe (2008) Ramjet at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===''Timelines''===
[[File:Timelines-toy G2Ramjet.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|[[Joker|The Joker]] has a jet now?]]
*'''Ramjet''' (Club exclusive figure, 2011)
**''Accessories:'' 2 missile launchers (left & right), 2 missiles

:''[[Transformers Timelines (toyline)|Timelines]]''/''Generation 2'' Ramjet is one of the 2011 [[Transformers Collectors' Club]] exclusive figures. He is a redeco of ''Classics'' Deluxe Class Ramjet in the colors of [[#Generation 2|his ''Generation 2'' toy]], including replicating most of the sticker details. Most of the sticker details were recreated with paint, but the details on the insides of his shoulder intakes and on the tops of his feet were once again stickers, presumably because it was rough getting tampographs put in there. Ramjet was also slightly [[retool]]ed, as his nosecone is rounded off and made of rubber instead of plastic, presumably [[for safety reasons]]. Ramjet (and [[Cheetor (Animated)#Toys|Cheetor]]) went up for preorder on [[April 27]], [[2011]]. Ramjet was sold out by [[April 29]], 2011.

::*''[http://tfu.info/2011/Decepticon/TFCCRamjet/ramjet.htm More information on ''Timelines'' Ramjet at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===''United''===
{{anchor|elites}}
[[File:United Seekers Elites.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66]]
*'''Seekers: Elites''' (Three-pack, [[December 28]], [[2012]])
**''Accessories:'' Left & right launchers, 2 missiles

:''[[Transformers United|United]]'' Ramjet is a redeco of the [[#Classics|''Classics'' Ramjet]] mold. This release is the first time he is offered with both of his wing mates [[Dirge (G1)/toys#United|Dirge]] and [[Thrust (G1)/toys#United|Thrust]].

:This version of Ramjet is more closely based on his cartoon appearance, although he retains the bulkier G1 toy-inspired missiles of his earlier releases. His missile launchers are solid dark grey. His hands and forearms are dark grey plastic, with the forearms painted white. His wings are painted metallic red, while his jet boosters and stabilizers are dark grey plastic. Like his ''[[Henkei! Henkei! Transformers (toyline)|Henkei! Henkei!]]'' release, his Decepticon [[Insignia|faction symbols]] are tampographed on both sides of his wings, and on his nosecone in front of the cockpit.
{{-}}

===''Kre-O''===
[[File:KreO-Toy RamjetKreon.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|All we need now is a Rumble and we'll have the Kreon version of "[[A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court (episode)|A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court]]"!]]
* '''Ramjet''' (Kreon Micro-Changer, 2013)
**''Collection'': '''Collection 3'''
**''Bag number'': '''***** 53'''
**''Accessories'': Logo brick, 2 clip-on rifles
{{toydesigner|[[Ed Masiello]] (Hasbro)}}

:As part of the third wave of [[blindpacking|blindpacked]] ''[[Kre-O]]'' [[Micro-Changer]]s, Ramjet is a [[Kreon]] who can be rebuilt into a tiny jet. He is essentially a [[redeco]] of Kreon [[Dirge (G1)/toys#Kre-O|Dirge]], using almost all the same parts and construction; except that he comes with a new back-harness attachment piece to replace the flak jacket used in Dirge's assortment.

: This Micro-Changer assortment was the last one to appear at [[Target]], with later waves showing up only at [[Toys"R"Us]] or drug/discount stores.

::*''[http://tfu.info/2013/Decepticon/Kre-ORamjet/ramjet.htm More information on Micro-Changer Ramjet at TFU.info]''

{{-}}{{anchor|SDCC2015}}
*'''Kreon Class of '85''' (Kreon figure set, [[2015]])
**''Set number'': '''B5152'''
**''Voted'': Best Headbutt
**''Accessories'': 2 clip-on rifles

:[[Kreon Class of '85]] Ramjet's deco is much more heavily toy-detailed than the Micro-Changer. Oddly, his leg-wings are black instead of burgundy. Like the rest of the set, he uses the almost-totally-[[retool]]ed 2015 style of Kreon body.

:This box set of thirty Kreons was a [[San Diego Comic-Con]] 2015 [[exclusive]], with leftovers being sold on [[Hasbro Toy Shop]] online after the show.

::*''[http://tfu.info/2015/Decepticon/SDCCKre-ORamjet/ramjet.htm More information on Class of '85 Ramjet at TFU.info]''

{{-}}{{anchor|2015Kreon}}
*'''Ramjet''' (Kreon Micro-Changer, [[2017]])
**''Collection'': '''Collection 3'''
**''Accessories'': Logo plate, 2 clip-on rifles

:In 2017, the Collection 3 Micro-Changers were re-released in a whole new production run, first appearing at [[Walgreens]] stores in the U.S. These releases use the almost-entirely-[[retool]]ed 2015 Kreon (making most parts incompatible with older Kreons), with slightly-differently-hued plastics than the originals. Ramjet's [[tampograph]]s are slightly altered, changing the flat light gray to metallic silver.

:Sadly, this release has no individual-identification code on the bag, requiring you to use the feel-through-the-bag method or just buy blind and hope.

===''Platinum Edition''===
[[File:TF-Platinum-Edition-Seeker-Squadron.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb]]
*'''Seeker Squadron''' (Platinum Edition, 2015)
**''Accessories'': 2 "Cluster Bombs", 2 fists (left & right), 2 wings (left & right), 2 tail fins (left & right), front landing gear

:A reissue of the original Ramjet toy in a ''[[Transformers: Platinum Edition|Platinum Edition]]'' 3-pack with [[Thrust (G1)/toys#SeekerSquadron|Thrust]] and [[Dirge (G1)/toys#SeekerSquadron|Dirge]].

:In the United States, this set was officially a [[Target]] exclusive, though only ever found at a single Target store, otherwise only available via the company's website. However, it was also stocked by US-based online retailers [[BigBadToyStore]] and TFSource, who supposedly obtained it as an import from Asia. It was available in several of Hasbro's Asian markets (namely Singapore, Malaysia, and the Philippines; it's currently unknown whether it was exclusive to any particular stores there or not). In Australia, it was sold at Myer stores, whereas in Canada, it was available via the Canadian [[Walmart]] website (but never found in stores).

:In the United Kingdom, it was sold at [[Toys"R"Us]] stores and A1 Toys. In Spain, the set was officially available via the Spanish division of [[Amazon (website)|Amazon]]. In Germany, it was originally available via Bankroft, an online retailer that otherwise specializes in [[Nerf]] blasters and accessories, as part of a special "Fan Edition" arrangement through Hasbro Germany, with the help of several German [[fandom|fan]] sites. Due to low sales, the unsold stock was later sold to Actionfiguren24, a German online retailer that specializes in imported toys, who was able to lower its price for its existing stock of imported Seeker Squadron sets as a result.
{{G1SeekerMold}}
{{-}}

===''Masterpiece''===
[[File:TF-Masterpiece-MP-11NR-Ramjet.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Sadly does not come with real toast.]]
*'''Ramjet''' ([[March 19]], [[2016]])
**''ID number:'' '''MP-11NR'''
**''Accessories:'' 2 null rays, clear hologram pilot figurine

:''[[The Transformers: Masterpiece|Masterpiece]]'' MP11NR Ramjet was revealed on the TakaraTomy Mall website in October 2015 as a TakaraTomy Mall exclusive, the first [[Conehead]] retool of [[Starscream (G1)/toys#MP11|''Masterpiece'' MP-11 Starscream]]. Later the same day, the listing disappeared before the preorder period started. The listing reappeared at the end of November, with preorders staying open from [[November 30]] to [[December 8]]. It was limited to 2000 pieces in Japan.

:Compared to Starscream, Ramjet features new wing molds attached to his legs. His head is part of the nosecone but not the whole part, and during transformation the cockpit's upper half needs to be rotated 180 degrees. To match the cartoon accurate flatness of the undersides of the wings, the bottom parts of the black turbines can be lifted, rotated inside and closed, revealing a Decepticon symbol underneath. While he has the same null rays as Starscream, they can be socketed inside two-piece rocket parts to reproduce the original toy's larger rockets.

:The pictures in the original October listings had the figure slightly mistransformed in jet mode (the nosecone was not fully closed) and featured the hologram pilot cast in orange plastic, while the updated pics from the November listing show the figure's nosecone correctly closed and the hologram pilot is now cast in clear plastic.

:Unfortunately, quality control problems with this figure are very commonplace, with seemingly a majority of specimens having a [[misassembly]] in the robot shoulders that prevents fully locking the wings together in jet mode.

:Ramjet was further remolded, naturally, into [[Thrust (G1)/toys#Masterpiece|MP-11NT Thrust]] and [[Dirge (G1)/toys#Masterpiece|MP-11ND Dirge]], also TakaraTomy Mall exclusives.
{{MP11SeekerMold}}
{{-}}

===''War for Cybertron: Earthrise''===
[[File:TF-WFC-E-Ramjet.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Does not come with an Amazon exclusive toast.]]
*'''Ramjet & Dirge''' (multipack, [[2020]])
**''Hasbro ID number:'' '''WFC-E27'''
**''TakaraTomy ID number'': '''ER EX-19'''
**''TakaraTomy release date'': [[February 20]], [[2021]]
**''Accessories:'' 2 "Null-Ray blasters"

:Released with [[Dirge (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Earthrise|Dirge]] in the ''[[War for Cybertron: Earthrise|Earthrise]]'' toyline as a 2-pack, Ramjet is a heavy retooling of [[Starscream (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Earthrise|Starscream]] from the same line, transforming into a modified F-15 fighter jet with cranked-arrow delta wings based on the F-16XL prototype like his original toy. As one of the Coneheads, Ramjet features a new headsculpt based on the original conehead design, though it is a faux piece not formed from the actual nosecone. Ramjet's face also features a stern, almost grimaced expression.

:The figure's design and transformation scheme are heavily based on the 2006 ''Classics'' Starscream mold (and its subsequent retool of Ramjet), while adding points of articulation the earlier figure did not have such as pivoting ankles and a more expressive ball-jointed head. His head, chest and wings are susceptible to paint chipping due to the transformation scheme.

:As with Dirge, Ramjet uses the same, unchanged Null-Ray blasters that came with Starscream. His stock photos show him slightly mis-tranformed, with his feet splayed apart in jet mode.

:His map piece, shared with Dirge, features the bottom of [[Gigantion]], though unlabeled.

:This pack was exclusive to [[Amazon (website)|Amazon]] in the United States and Canada, though it seems that demand for the characters outstripped supply — several customers later had their orders cancelled by Amazon due to a lack of available stock. While Dirge would later receive a reissue in the ''[[Legacy]]: Evolution'' line, Ramjet remains exclusive to this set.

{{WFCEarthriseStarscreamMold}}
{{-}}

===''Generations Selects''===
[[File:Generations select G2 ramjet.jpeg|upright=1.66|thumb|He stole [[Sunstorm (G1)|Sunstorm]]'s invitation to ''Generations Selects''!]]
*'''Ramjet''' (Voyager Class, [[2021]])
**''Series'': '''''War for Cybertron: Earthrise'''''
**''Hasbro ID number:'' '''WFC-GS24'''
**''TakaraTomy release date'': [[December 29]], [[2021]]
**''Accessories:'' 2 "Null-Ray blasters"

:A ''[[Generations Selects (toyline)|Generations Selects]]'' add-on toy for ''[[War for Cybertron: Earthrise|Earthrise]]'', released concurrently with ''[[War for Cybertron: Kingdom|Kingdom]]'', this version of Ramjet is a redeco of the above ''Earthrise'' toy in the colors of Ramjet's [[#Generation 2|''Generation 2'']] figure.

:The plastic used for Ramjet's forearms has been reported to [[Photodegradation|yellow]] quickly.

:The toy is branded as part of the ''War for Cybertron Trilogy'' toyline by Hasbro in the US but as part of ''Generations Selects'' by [[TakaraTomy]], and is a [[TakaraTomy Mall]] exclusive, in [[Japan]].
{{WFCEarthriseStarscreamMold}}
{{--}}

==Merchandise==
===''Super Collection Figure''===
[[File:SCF Ramjet.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|But he wasn't really the Pope, just an alien robot with a funny hat.]]
*'''Ramjet''' (2003)
**''Act'': '''6'''
**''Accessories'': Stand

: A [[retool]]ing of the ''[[Heroes of Cybertron|Super Collection Figure]]'' [[Starscream (G1)/merchandise#Super Collection Figure|Starscream]] figure, Ramjet was released in the sixth "act" of the line. No he's not super cartoon-accurate. He was available in both full-color and pewter versions, one of each in a case of twelve.

: The pewter version of the figure has a potential problem with connector peg breakage, due to said pegs often getting a layer of pewter paint before being forced into a socket, leading to sticking and tearing. Care should be used when moving or removing the arms; shaving down the socket interior with a thin hobby knife is usually sufficient to fix the issue.

: In eight out of every ten cases, the pewter version of Ramjet was packed with the right arm of the Act's "build-a-figure" [[Grand Maximus#Super Collection Figure|Grand Maximus]]. This part too could be in either full color or pewter, packed at a ratio of six color pieces to two pewters.

: This Act was seemingly in shorter supply than the others before and since, and is not terribly common on the secondary market.

: This mold was also used to make his Act-mates [[Thrust (G1)/toys#Super Collection Figure|Thrust]] and [[Dirge (G1)/toys#Super Collection Figure|Dirge]]. The original tooling was also used to make [[Thundercracker (G1)/toys#Super Collection Figure|Thundercracker]], [[Skywarp (G1)/toys#Super Collection Figure|Skywarp]], and the ''Heroes of Cybertron'' special releases [[Sunstorm (G1)#Heroes of Cybertron|Sunstorm]] and [[Air Warrior#Heroes of Cybertron|Air Warrior]].

::*''[http://tfu.info/2002/Destron/Ramjet/ramjet.htm More information on ''Super Collection Figure'' Ramjet at TFU.info]''
::*''[http://tfu.info/2002/Destron/PewterRamjet/ramjet.htm More information on pewter Ramjet at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===''MyClone''===
[[File:MyCloneRamjet.jpg|thumb|upright=0.44|Ever been headbutted by a chibi? It HURTS!]]
*'''Ramjet''' (2003)
**''ID number:'' '''MTF016'''

:''[[MyClone]]'' Ramjet was released in the fifth series of the ''MyClone'' trading figure line, which was third and final series to feature ''Transformers'' characters. Following the ''MyClone'' aesthetic, he is a cutesy representation of Ramjet's animation model in super-deformed proportions. He features articulation in his head, shoulders, elbows, waist, hips and knees, all of the parts capable of being removed, then mixed and matched with any other ''MyClone'' figure.
{{-}}

===''3D Battle-Card Game''===
[[File:3DBattleCard Ramjet.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4]]
*'''Ramjet''' (2007)

:A 34-point "common" character in the [[3D Battle-Card Game]]'s "Energon Wars" expansion, Ramjet "transforms" into a white and red jet, generally following his ''Classics'' deco scheme. He uses the same parts layout as [[Transformers (film)|Movie]] [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]], [[Dreadwing (Movie)|Dreadwing]], [[Thundercracker (Movie)|Thundercracker]], and [[Jetfire (Movie)|Jetfire]], and Generation 1 [[Starscream (G1)/toys|Starscream]] and [[Skywarp (G1)/toys|Skywarp]].
{{-}}

===Transformers - Mini Bust===
[[File:Ramjet statue.jpg|thumb|More fragile than his tech spec would have you believe.]]
*'''Ramjet''' (Diamond Select, 2008)

:Ramjet was released by [[Diamond Select Toys]] in 2008 and exclusive to online retailer Big Bad Toy Store. He was sculpted by [[Mark Wong]] of [[Art Asylum]] and limited to 250 pieces. The sculpt features Ramjet's distinctive wings. Strangely enough his motto on the box is "The skies are my castle, and I like to live alone" as found *in* his tech spec as opposed to "If it flies, crash it" as it was in both his tech spec and [[The Transformers Universe|''Transformers Universe'' profile]].
{{-}}

===''The Loyal Subjects''===
[[File:Tlsramjet.jpg|thumb|upright=1.1|Undesirable #1]]
*'''Ramjet''' (2014)

:[[The Loyal Subjects]] Ramjet is a Wave 2 figure with standard articulation. He is mostly based on his ''Classics'' toy. For every 16 figures, there are 2 Ramjets. The basic mold, but not the accessories, was also used to make [[Dirge (G1)/toys#The Loyal Subjects|Dirge]] and [[Thrust (G1)/toys#The Loyal Subjects|Thrust]], as well as the "Ghost" versions of all three Coneheads.
{{-}}{{anchor|The Loyal Subjects Ghost}}
*'''Ghost Seekers''' (2014)
{{charstubtoys}}

===''Transformers Trading Card Game''===
[[File:W1Ramjet.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66]]
*'''Ramjet, Sky Smasher''' (2018)
**'''Wave 1'''
**''Rarity: '''''CT'''
**''Card Number: '''''T32/T40'''
**''Stars: ''10
:'''Ramjet, Sky Smasher''' is one of forty double-sided character cards available in Wave 1 of the [[Transformers Trading Card Game]].

:The artwork for the card is reused from the ''[[Transformers Legends (mobile game)|Transformers Legends]]'' mobile card game.
{{--}}

==Notes==
[[File:WhizBangNavyRamjetRedeco.jpg|thumb|upright=0.8|In the NA-VY, in the NA-VY...]]
* A 1980s Japanese [[:File:Ehobbygobotscatalog.jpg|catalog photo]] shows the then-new second year Seeker jet wings in different colors attached to unaltered first year Seeker bodies. In Ramjet's case, the [[prototype]] toy uses [[Starscream (G1)/toys|Starscream]]'s main body. This production stage lasted long enough to receive its own [[package art]] that was eventually published in the [[2014]] ''[[Legacy: The Art of Transformers Packaging]]'' book.
*The [[#Generation 2|''Generation 2'' Ramjet toy]] provided inspiration for generic Decepticons in [[IDW Publishing]]'s [[The Transformers: Robots in Disguise|''The Transformers'' vol. 2]] [[The Transgressors|#44]] and ''[[Transformers vs. G.I. Joe]]'' [[Pax Megatronus|#8]].
*Speaking of G2, Hasbro evidently had more redeco plans for Ramjet (and the paired [[Starscream (G1)/toys#Generation 2|Starscream]]) that fell through:
**''Generation 2'' concept art published in the 2011 ''[[Transformers Vault]]'' book shows an unreleased tannish variant of Ramjet that would have been named "[[Sandstorm (G2)|Sandstorm]]". Most likely, Sandstorm would have debuted alongside "[[Blackout (G2)|Blackout]]", whose prototypes and artwork have been uncovered under similar conditions.
**Another hand-painted mock-up, this time of the original Ramjet in "cloud camo" deco, is also known to exist. Whether it was ever meant to be taken into production and whether it was meant to be Ramjet or a new character remains unknown. It was originally offered for sale in [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/browse_thread/thread/4f98fe3d58bfe696/b1d0163d38587281?q=ramjet+whiz+bang+toys&pli=1 October of 2000] from Whiz Bang Collectibles, along with other items seemingly from a former Hasbro employee's collection.<ref>[http://www.toyarchive.com/Transformers/Prototypes/Generation2/RamjetRecolor1.html Blue Ramjet at Toyarchive.com]</ref> Possibly, "cloud camo Ramjet" would have been paired for release alongside "[[Starscream (G1)/toys#Notes|jungle attack Starscream]]".
* Hasbro designed a "pretooled" alternate head on the ''[[Combiner Wars (toyline)|Combiner Wars]]'' Deluxe Class [[Air Raid (G1)/toys#Generations|Air Raid]] body tooling styled on the 1985 Coneheads, but ultimately, only TakaraTomy used this head to make ''[[Transformers Unite Warriors|Unite Warriors]]'' [[Thrust (Armada)#Unite Warriors|Curse Armada Thrust]].<ref>[https://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/127888-tfss-50-live-update-now-open-to-formers-members-2012-and-on/?p=3441554 Post by Powered Convoy on The Allspark Forums, 13 February 2017]</ref>
{{--}}

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:3D Battle-Cards]]
[[Category:Amazon exclusives]]
[[Category:Classics Decepticons]]
[[Category:Fan Club exclusives]]
[[Category:Generation 1 toy Decepticons]]
[[Category:Generation 2 Decepticons]]
[[Category:Generations]]
[[Category:Generations Selects toy Decepticons]]
[[Category:Kre-O Decepticons]]
[[Category:Kreons]]
[[Category:Masterpiece]]
[[Category:MyClone]]
[[Category:Platinum Edition]]
[[Category:SDCC exclusives]]
[[Category:TakaraTomy Mall exclusives]]
[[Category:Target exclusives]]
[[Category:Timelines characters]]
[[Category:United Decepticons]]
[[Category:Universe (2008)]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Earthrise Decepticons]]

Dirge (G1)/toys

2023-04-05T01:06:37Z

Spectre:

{{suite}}

[[File:G1 boxart Dirge.jpg|upright=1.3|thumb|Dirge's figures aren't so much "toys" as they are miniature memorial statues.]]

As a [[Conehead]] [[Seeker (body-type)|Seeker]], '''Dirge''' less often receives a toy whenever [[Starscream (G1)/toys|Starscream]] does.

==Toys==
===''The Transformers''===
{{anchor|Generation 1}}
[[File:G1Dirge toy.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Closet [[Conehead]]]]
*'''Dirge''' (Decepticon Plane, [[1985]]/[[1986]])
**''Takara ID number'': '''97'''
**''Accessories'': Left & right fists, front landing gear, 2 [[concussion weapon|concussion missiles]]
{{toydesigner|[[Kōjin Ōno]] (TakaraTomy, original mold)|[[Takayoshi Doi]] (TakaraTomy, new accessories)}}

:A [[retool]] of the [[Starscream (G1)/toys#The Transformers|Starscream mold]], Dirge transforms into a modified F-15 fighter jet with a delta wing and front canard. The spring-loaded missile launchers were replaced with simplified non-firing... rifle barrels?

:In [[robot mode]] his official instructions have the user pulling down his nose cone to complete his head transformation, like Starscream. However, Dirge's character model depicts him as having his head untransformed, leaving a distinctive "conehead" shape to his appearance. This trait is shared by [[Thrust (G1)/toys#The Transformers|Thrust]] and [[Ramjet (G1)/toys#The Transformers|Ramjet]], leading many owners to do the same thing to differentiate the three later Decepticon jets from the three earlier ones. Dirge's robot mode stickers are the same design as [[Thundercracker (G1)/toys#The Transformers|Thundercracker's]], but in different colors.

: In Japan, Dirge was only available as a mail-away in 1986 (for 1980 yen and 4 [[Robot Point]]s).

: The [[Joustra]] version of Dirge, released in parts of mainland Europe in 1986, has a number of small changes from the Hasbro/Takara version, most notably a hard-plastic nosecone (ouch!) and unchromed black landing gear wheels.

:This sculpt was also used to make [[Ramjet (G1)/toys#The Transformers|Ramjet]], [[Skywarp (G1)/toys#The Transformers|Skywarp]], [[Sunstorm (G1)#Toys|Sunstorm]], [[Thrust (G1)/toys#The Transformers|Thrust]], and [[Thundercracker (G1)/toys#The Transformers|Thundercracker]].

::*''[http://www.transformerland.com/wiki/toy-info/transformers-g1-decepticon-jets-dirge/727/ Patent info, price guide, and further reading on Dirge at Transformerland.com]''
::*''[http://tfu.info/1985/Decepticon/Dirge/dirge.htm More information on Dirge at TFU.info]''
{{G1SeekerMold}}
{{-}}

===''Beast Wars''===
[[File:BWII-toy Dirge.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|I'm the closest this mold got to looking like Thundercracker, but instead I'm two different Dirges.]]
*'''Dirge''' ([[1998]])
**''ID number'': '''D-14'''
**''Accessories'': "Dirge Gun" rifle & barrel
{{note|''[[Transformers: Beast Wars (Japanese toyline)#1998 (Beast Wars II)|Beast Wars II]]'' [[Dirge (BW)|Dirge]] was officially [[repurposing|repurposed]] as Generation 1 Dirge's new form in the ''[[Beast Wars Shattered Glass]]'' comic.}}

:A [[redeco]] of the ''[[Machine Wars: Transformers|Machine Wars]]'' Basic Class [[Skywarp (G1)/toys|Skywarp]]/[[Thundercracker (G1)/toys|Thundercracker]] mold, Dirge transforms from a [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes#Dassault Rafale|Dassault Rafale fighter jet]] to robot mode with a single-step, spring-loaded transformation. The two halves of his "Dirge Gun" rifle store in his lower legs in jet mode.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/1998/Destron/Dirge/dirge.htm More information on Dirge at TFU.info]''
{{MWSkywarpMold}}
{{-}}

===''Collector's Edition''===
{{anchor|CollEd}}
*'''Dirge''' (Collector's Edition, July [[2001]])
**''ID number'': '''97'''
**''Accessories'': Left & right fists, front landing gear, 2 [[concussion weapon|concussion missiles]]
:As part of the ''[[The Transformers: Collector's Edition|Collector's Edition]]'' series of Japanese [[Generation 1 reissues|reissues]] in 2001, a limited run (an estimated 800 pieces made) of Dirge was available [[exclusive]] to the 20th Century Toy Museum event. Dirge came in standardized packaging also used by the other ''Collector's Edition'' [[Decepticon Planes|Jetron]] reissues. Unlike the other 2001 reissues, which were all sold as sets of two individually packaged figures, "Set E" consisted of Dirge all by himself.
{{G1SeekerMold}}
{{-}}

===''Commemorative Series''===
[[File:Commemorativeseriesdirge.jpg|upright=1.22|thumb|WYLD STALLYNS! deedleedleedleedleet]]
*'''Dirge''' (Commemorative Series VI, [[2004]])
**''Accessories'': Left & right fists, front landing gear, 2 [[concussion weapon|concussion missiles]]
:In 2004, a reissue of Dirge was released as part of the [[Toys"R"Us]] exclusive ''[[The Transformers: Generation One Commemorative Series|Commemorative Series]]''. Unlike the reissues of the other Decepticon Planes, Dirge didn't require any notable modifcations to his missiles [[for safety reasons]].

:The package art depicts him having a Seeker head instead of his trademark Cone head.
{{G1SeekerMold}}
{{-}}

===''Timelines''===
[[File:Classics Dirge Toy.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Conehead uncloseted.]]
*'''Games of Deception''' (Multi-pack, [[2007]])
**''Accessories'': Left & right missile launchers, 2 missiles

:''[[Transformers Timelines (toyline)|Timelines]]'' Dirge is part of the ''[[Transformers: Classics|Classics]]''-themed [[BotCon 2007]] box set, along with [[Bug Bite (GoBots)#Timelines|Bug Bite]], [[Dreadwind (G1)#Timelines|Dreadwind]], [[Thrust (G1)/toys#Timelines|Thrust]], and [[Thundercracker (G1)/toys#Timelines|Thundercracker]]. He is a [[redeco]] of the ''Classics'' Deluxe Class [[Ramjet (G1)/toys#Classics|Ramjet]] toy, transforming into a made up fighter based upon the F-15. Dirge's wings were not retooled from ''Classics'' Ramjet's, as the budget would not cover that as well as the more distinctive wings needed for Thrust. He also comes with two spring-loaded missile launchers that can mount on his biceps, under his wings, or be used as hand-held weapons. Like his set-mate Thrust, Dirge comes with ''Classics'' Ramjet's bulkier missiles. As with most ''Classics'' toys, he features a heat-sensitive [[rubsign]].

:There were 1500 ''Timelines'' Dirge figures produced.

:This tooling also served as the model for the non-toy [[Dirge (SG)|''Shattered Glass'' incarnation of Dirge]].

::*''[http://tfu.info/2007/Decepticon/BCDirge/dirge.htm More information on Timelines Dirge at TFU.info]''
{{ClassicsSeekerMold}}
{{-}}

===''Universe'' (2008)===
[[File:Universe 2008 Dirge toy.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Wait... if Dirge dies in the past, doesn't that create a [[Paul Eiding|time paradox]]?]]
*'''Autobot Ambush''' (Voyager Deluxe Comic 2-Pack, [[2008]])
**''Series:'' G1 Series
**''Accessories:'' Launcher, missile, Decepticon [[Planet X (Cybertron)|Planet X]]-style [[Cyber Key]]
{{toydesigner|[[Joe Kyde]] (deco artist)}}

:A Target-exclusive redeco of ''Galaxy Force'' [[Starscream (Armada)/toys#Cybertron|Starscream]], Dirge transforms into a Cybertronic starfighter. In both modes, plugging a [[Cyber Key]] into his back end flips out a spring-loaded "[[energon]] blade" from each arm. His spring-loaded missile launcher can be used as either a hand-held weapon, or mounted under his jet mode nosecone. His (conveniently color-coded) dark purple Cyber Key is unpainted, save for its silver ''[[Live-action film series|movie]]''-styled Decepticon symbol.

:Some samples of Dirge suffer from a partially compromised key-activated [[gimmick]], with the blade on the right arm not wanting to spring out even when the key is inserted. It can be fairly easily pried out with the included missile (or some other long object).

:He is packed with [[Roadbuster (G1)#Universe (2008)|Roadbuster]] (a redeco of ''[[Transformers: Cybertron (toyline)|Cybertron]]'' [[Hot Shot (Armada)/toys#CyCDF|Cybertron Defense Hot Shot]]) and a comic book. In its first release in Canada, the set did not include a comic (in spite of the ''INCLUDES COMIC!'' marking on the package), and in the US, the set included the ''wrong'' comic. Instead of ''The Dark Ages'' issue "[[Escalation]]", which was meant for the "Standoff Beneath the Streets" Voyager-Deluxe two-pack of [[Springer (G1)#Universe (2008)|Springer]] and [[Ratbat (G1)#Universe (2008)|Ratbat]], the right comic was to be a reprint of "[[Target: 2006]]" parts [[Target: 2006#Wreck and Rule.21|5]] and [[Target: 2006#The Devil You Know...|6]], which was similarly and erroneously included with the "Standoff Beneath the Streets" two-pack.

:This mold was also used for the [[BotCon 2008]]-exclusive ''[[Transformers: Shattered Glass (toyline)|Shattered Glass]]'' [[Starscream (SG)#Timelines|Starscream]].

::*''[http://tfu.info/2008/Decepticon/TFUDirge/dirge.htm More information on Universe Dirge at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===''Gentei! Gentei!''===
[[File:Henkei Dirge toy.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|AHA! Undeniable proof that Takara does things better than Hasbro! (Sometimes.)]]
*'''Dirge''' (Deluxe, [[2009]])
**''Accessories:'' Left & right missile launchers, 2 Sonic missiles

:''[[Henkei! Henkei! Transformers (toyline)|Gentei! Gentei!]]'' Dirge is a [[TakaraTomy Mall|Toy Hobby Market]] exclusive retool of ''Classics'' Ramjet. Unlike his [[BotCon 2007]] ''Timelines'' version, he has newly tooled wings based upon the wings from his original toy, uses the smaller gun missiles from Starscream, and, unusually for ''Henkei! Henkei!'', features an all-new, colorful [[Hasbro]] ''Classics''-style deco for his new wings. Like all ''Henkei! Henkei!'' toys, he features [[Vacuum metallizing|vacuum metallized]] parts, specifically the barrels of his missile launchers, his engine nozzles and his cockpit interior.

:Dirge was available for pre-order from [[November 13]]th through [[December 10]]th 2008, and shipped in late March of 2009.
{{ClassicsSeekerMold}}
{{-}}

===''Generations''===
[[File:Generations-toy Dirge.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|Death by mold degradation.]]
*'''Dirge''' (Deluxe Class, [[2010]])
**''Accessories:'' Left & right missile launchers, 2 missiles
:''[[Transformers: Generations (toyline)|Generations]]'' Dirge is a [[redeco]] of ''[[Henkei! Henkei! Transformers (toyline)|Gentei! Gentei!]]'' Dirge.

:Like [[Starscream (G1)/toys#Henkei! Henkei!|Ghost Starscream]] and ''Generations'' [[Thrust (G1)#Generations|Thrust]], Dirge uses the older version of the ''Classics'' Seeker mold used from ''Classics'' [[Skywarp (G1)/toys|Skywarp]] to [[Acid Storm (G1)|Acid Storm]], rather than the newer version used for the majority of the Henkei figures and [[Starscream (G1)/toys#Generation 1 Series|Universe Starscream]], right down to the 2006 copyright rather than 2008 featured on Gentei Dirge. Unlike the Gentei version, this figure only features wing deco on the top side; to compensate for the Decepticon [[insignia|faction symbols]] appearing only on the back in robot mode, a tiny symbol has been [[tampograph]]ed on the upper chest. The wing stripes are based on the G1 figure.

:Initial batches of Dirge [[quality control|lacked]] the white center of the head crest in all three tampographed Decepticon faction symbols. This was [[quality control|fixed]] by a [[variant|running change]].<ref name="dirge">[http://www.seibertron.com/toys/gallery.php?id=2160&size=0&start=176 Comparison between both versions of ''Generations'' Dirge.]</ref> Dirge unfortunately features many reported problems, seemingly caused by the extensive reuse of the original Starscream mold. Such issues include feet that are unable to stay in place in robot mode, extremely loose hip joints and weak butterfly hinges on his shoulders.

::*''[http://tfu.info/2010/Decepticon/GenerationsDirge/dirge.htm More information on Generations Dirge at TFU.info]''
{{ClassicsSeekerMold}}

===''United''===
{{anchor|elites}}
[[File:United Seekers Elites.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66]]
*'''Seekers: Elites''' (Three-pack, [[December 28]], [[2012]])
**''Accessories:'' Left & right launchers, 2 missiles

:''[[Transformers United|United]]'' Dirge is a redeco of the ''[[Henkei! Henkei! Transformers (toyline)|Gentei! Gentei!]]/[[Transformers: Generations (toyline)|Generations]]'' Dirge retooling of the ''[[Transformers: Classics|Classics]]'' [[Ramjet (G1)/toys#Classics|Ramjet]] mold. This release marks the first time he is offered with [[Ramjet (G1)/toys#United|Ramjet]] as well as [[Thrust (G1)/toys#United|Thrust]].

:This version of Dirge is more closely based on his cartoon appearance. Like his ''Gentei!''/''Generations'' releases, he comes with the thinner Starscream missiles. His missile launchers are solid dark grey. His wings are undecorated, save for tampographs of his Decepticon [[Insignia|faction symbols]] on both sides of each wing. Dirge features metallic blue paint applications on much of his blue plastic.
{{ClassicsSeekerMold}}
{{-}}

===''Kre-O''===
[[File:KreO-Toy DirgeKreon.jpg|right|thumb|upright=1.66|Seeing as how often Dirges die, the flak jacket is probably a good idea.]]
* '''Dirge''' (Kreon Micro-Changer, 2012)
**''Bag number'': '''***** 49'''
**''Accessories'': Stand brick, 2 clip-on blasters
{{toydesigner|[[Ed Masiello]] (Hasbro)}}

: Part of the first normal wave of [[Micro-Changer]] [[Kreon]]s, Dirge is a [[Blindpacking|blindpacked]]-bagged mini-figure, though a stamped ID number can be found on the back of the bag, top-right corner. He comes with extra parts to convert him into a jet. He features new wings which clip into his arms and a new jet nosecone helmet, but reuses [[Starscream (Kre-O)|Starscream]]'s arm-mounted missile pieces.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2013/Decepticon/Kre-ODirge/dirge.htm More information on Dirge at TFU.info]''

{{-}}{{anchor|SDCC2015}}
*'''Kreon Class of '85''' (Kreon figure set, 2015)
**''Set number'' '''B5152'''
**''Voted'': Most Likely to Be Found Wandering the Woods Wearing a Hockey Mask
**''Accessories'': 2 clip-on blasters

:[[Kreon Class of '85]] Dirge's tampographs are much more accurate to the original 1985 toy. He has the wrong wing color, tho. Like all the figures in the set, he uses the almost-wholly-[[retool]]ed 2015 style Kreon body.

: He was only available as part of the [[San Diego Comic-Con]]-[[exclusive]] "Kreon Class of '85" 30-Kreon set. This set was also sold online through [[Hasbro Toy Shop]] after the show.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2015/Decepticon/SDCCKre-ODirge/dirge.htm More information on Class of '85 Dirge at TFU.info]''

{{-}}{{Anchor|2016}}
* '''Dirge''' (Kreon Micro-Changer, 2016)
**''Collection'': '''1'''
**''Accessories'': Logo plate, 2 clip-on blasters

:In 2016, the Collection 1 Micro-Changers were re-released in a whole new production run for Dollar General stores in the US as part of a large collection of re-released ''Kre-O'' sets, later seeing release in other budget outlets and drug stores. But where most of these releases are nigh-identical to the originals, the re-released Micro-Changer blind-bags use the almost-entirely-retooled 2015 Kreon, with slightly-differently-hued plastics than the originals. (It is possible for some of the add-on pieces to be in the older hues.) Dirge's torso [[tampograph]] has also been reworked to be slightly more detailed, and the formerly-bare legs now have extra detail tampographing on them.

:Sadly, this release has no individual-identification code on the bag, requiring you to use the feel-through-the-bag method or just buy blind and hope.

{{-}}{{anchor|SeekerSquadron}}

===''Platinum Edition''===
[[File:TF-Platinum-Edition-Seeker-Squadron.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb]]
*'''Seeker Squadron''' (Platinum Edition, 2015)
**''Accessories'': Left & right fists, front landing gear, 2 [[concussion weapon|concussion missiles]]

:A reissue of the original Dirge toy in a ''[[Transformers: Platinum Edition|Platinum Edition]]'' 3-pack with [[Ramjet (G1)/toys#Generations|Ramjet]] and [[Thrust (G1)/toys#SeekerSquadron|Thrust]].

:In the United States, this set was officially a [[Target]] exclusive, though only ever found at a single Target store, otherwise only available via the company's website. However, it was also stocked by US-based online retailers [[BigBadToyStore]] and TFSource, who supposedly obtained it as an import from Asia. It was available in several of Hasbro's Asian markets (namely Singapore, Malaysia and the Philippines; it's currently unknown whether it was exclusive to any particular stores there or not). In Australia, it was sold at Myer stores, whereas in Canada, it was available via the Canadian [[Walmart]] website (but never found in stores).

:In the United Kingdom, it was sold at [[Toys"R"Us]] stores and A1 Toys, whereas in Spain, was officially available via the Spanish division of [[Amazon (website)|Amazon]]. In Germany, it was originally available via Bankroft, an online retailer that otherwise specializes in [[Nerf]] blasters and accessories, as part of a special "Fan Edition" arrangement through Hasbro Germany, with the help of several German [[fandom|fan]] sites. Due to low sales, the unsold stock was later sold to Actionfiguren24, a German online retailer that specializes in imported toys, who was able to lower its price for its existing stock of imported Seeker Squadron sets as a result.
{{G1SeekerMold}}
{{-}}

===''Alt-Modes''===
[[File:Alt-Modes-toy Dirge.jpg|upright=1.22|thumb|Died (Canned) During Production.]]
*'''Dirge''' (Alt-Modes, <s>2017</s>)
**''Series'': '''2'''
**''Collection'': '''2'''

:A retool of ''[[Alt-Modes]]'' [[Starscream (G1)/toys#Alt-Modes|Starscream]] with a new head and legs, Dirge was to be a super deformed toy whose body transforms into a jet when the Decepticon faction symbol on his head is flipped. He would have been [[Blindpacking|blind-boxed]] and available in the second series of the toyline, but the line was canceled before he could be released. The toy itself was never shown off even as a prototype, but a 3D render of it was used in solicitations.

:The original version of this mold was also used to make ''Alt-Modes'' [[Thundercracker (G1)/toys#Alt-Modes|Thundercracker]], [[Skywarp (G1)/toys#Alt-Modes|Skywarp]], [[Acid Storm (G1)#Alt-Modes|Acid Storm]] and [[Sunstorm (G1)#Alt-Modes|Sunstorm]].

{{canceledtoy}}
{{-}}

===''Masterpiece''===
[[File:TF-Masterpiece-MP-11ND-Dirge.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Very soon, I will die from Ramjet's flawed shoulders or Thrust's loose waist.]]
*'''Dirge''' ([[June 28]], [[2017]])
**''ID number'': '''MP-11ND'''
**''Accessories'': 2 null rays, 2 sonic missiles, clear hologram pilot figurine

:[[The Transformers: Masterpiece|''Masterpiece'']] Dirge is a redeco/retool of [[Ramjet (G1)/toys#Masterpiece|Ramjet]], with new delta wing and front canard parts.

:Dirge also includes two new "sonic missiles" which are hollow and slip over the mold's ever-present null rays, to recreate the character's signature weapons. When not in use in robot mode, they can be pegged onto his back, using holes on the underside of the front canards. Unlike the other ''Masterpiece'' Coneheads, Dirge does not suffer from any specific quality control issues, but does suffer from general joint looseness to a lesser degree.

:Like the rest of the Coneheads, Dirge was able to be pre-ordered at TakaraTomy Mall from [[December 12]], [[2016]] to [[January 19]], 2017; Dirge was originally scheduled to ship [[May 27]] but was delayed to [[June 28]].
{{MP11SeekerMold}}
{{-}}

===''War for Cybertron: Earthrise''===
[[File:TF-WFC-E-Dirge.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|At least he doesn't die from being a Walmart exclusive...]]
*'''Ramjet & Dirge''' (multipack, [[2020]])
**''Hasbro ID number:'' '''WFC-E27'''
**''TakaraTomy ID number'': '''ER EX-19'''
**''TakaraTomy release date'': '''[[February 20]], [[2021]]'''
**''Accessories:'' 2 "Null-Ray blasters"

:Released with [[Ramjet (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Earthrise|Ramjet]] in an ''[[War for Cybertron: Earthrise|Earthrise]]'' two-pack, Dirge is a heavy retooling of [[Starscream (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Earthrise|Starscream]] from the same line, transforming into a modified F-15 fighter jet with a delta wing and front canard like his original toy. As one of the Coneheads, Dirge features a new headsculpt based on the original conehead design, though it is a faux piece not formed from the actual nosecone. Dirge's face also features an open-mouthed expression.

:The figure's design and transformation scheme are heavily based on the 2006 ''Classics'' [[Starscream (G1)/toys#Classics|Starscream]] mold (and its subsequent ''Generations'' retool of [[#Generations|Dirge]]), while adding points of articulation the earlier figure did not have such as pivoting ankles, a more expressive ball-jointed head, and hinges that allow the wings to fold backwards on his legs in robot mode. His head, chest and wings are susceptible to paint chipping due to the transformation scheme.

:As with Ramjet, Dirge uses the same, unchanged Null-Ray blasters that came with Starscream. His stock photos show these attached to the jet mode beneath the canards, mounted on the same ports as the robot mode's shoulders; however there are ports on the wings to allow for storage more accurate to the original.

:This pack was exclusive to [[Amazon (website)|Amazon]] in the United States and Canada, though it seems that demand for the characters outstripped supply — several customers later had their orders cancelled by Amazon due to a lack of available stock. Acknowledging the difficulty in obtaining this set, Hasbro would later reissue Dirge on his own a few years later in ''[[Legacy]]: Evolution''.

:His Map Piece, shared with Ramjet, shows the bottom of Gigantion.
{{WFCEarthriseStarscreamMold}}
{{-}}

===''War for Cybertron Trilogy''===
[[File:Behold Galvatron Dirge.JPG|thumb|200px]]
* '''Behold, Galvatron! Unicron Companion Pack''' (Leader Class, 2022)
:''[[War for Cybertron Trilogy (toyline)|War for Cybertron Trilogy]]'' Dirge is a non-transforming and immobile [[Slug figure|minifigure]], barely 10mm tall, scaled to interact with the immense [[Unicron/toys#HasLab|HasLab Unicron]] figure and its clear display base. This was one of a set of 14 minifigures in the "Unicron Companion Pack" that was included with the [[Galvatron (G1)/toys#War_for_Cybertron_Trilogy|"reformatting" version of Galvatron]]. The set was [[exclusive]] to [[Hasbro Pulse]].
{{--}}

===''Legacy''===
[[File:TF-Legacy-Dirge.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Death by popular demand.]]
*'''Dirge''' (Voyager, 2023)
**''Accessories'': Null Rays

: ''[[Legacy]]: Evolution'' Voyager Class Dirge is a [[package refresh|repack]] of the ''Earthrise'' Voyager Dirge, re-released due to popular demand and the pronounced scarcity of his original release.

{{comingsoontoy}}

{{--}}

==Merchandise==
===''Super Collection Figure''===
[[File:SCF Dirge.jpg|right|thumb|300px|The reveal of chase-figure Dirge made a lot of team-completion-minded people... less than happy.]]
*'''Dirge''' ([[2002]])
**''Act'': '''6'''
**''Accessories'': Stand

:A [[retool]]ing of the ''[[Heroes of Cybertron|Super Collection Figure]]'' [[Starscream (G1)/merchandise#Super Collection Figure|Starscream]] mold, Dirge is a three-inch tall non-transforming figure. He was released as a rare "[[chase figure|Secret Figure]]" in the sixth wave of the line, packaged one per every ten cases. It is unknown what figure -if any in specific- he replaced in the lucky cases.

: This Act was seemingly in shorter supply than the others before and since, and is not terribly common on the secondary market.

:This mold was further retooled into normal-release wave-mates [[Ramjet (G1)/toys#Super Collection Figure|Ramjet]] and [[Thrust (G1)/toys#Super Collection Figure|Thrust]]. The original tooling was also used to make [[Thundercracker (G1)/toys#Super Collection Figure|Thundercracker]], [[Skywarp (G1)/toys#Super Collection Figure|Skywarp]], and the ''Heroes of Cybertron'' special releases [[Sunstorm (G1)#Heroes of Cybertron|Sunstorm]] and [[Air Warrior#Heroes of Cybertron|Air Warrior]].
{{-}}

===''Heroes of Cybertron''===
[[File:HOC Dirge.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66| My head's not pointy enough! Someone fix this before I start busting YOUR nice, flat heads.]]
*'''Dirge''' ([[2003]])

:''[[Heroes of Cybertron]]'' Dirge is [[redeco]] of ''Super Collection Figure'' Dirge, cast in translucent red plastic and painted over save his eyes and a spot on the back of his head to create a [[light-piping]] gimmick. His cone-helmet was also rounded off [[for safety reasons]].

: The Hasbro release of Dirge was ''much'' easier to find than his Japanese counterpart, as he was a normal release in wave four, and packed on a blister card rather than in a [[Blindpacking|blindpacked]] box. He was also the only one of the "coneheads" to see release in the ''Heroes of Cybertron'' line.

: Dirge came with the torso to the [[Fortress Maximus (G1)/toys#Heroes of Cybertron|Fortress Maximus]] Build-A-Figure.

::*''[http://tfu.info/2002/Decepticon/HoCDirge/dirge.htm More information on ''Heroes of Cybertron'' Dirge at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===''MyClone''===
*'''Dirge''' (MyClone, 2003)

:Dirge was a chase figure in the third wave of ''[[MyClone]]'' figures. He's a cute, [[Super deformed]] figure who can be disassembled to switch his components with other MyClones. Dirge shares many, but not all, of his component molds with ''MyClone'' [[Ramjet (G1)/toys|Ramjet]] and [[Thrust (G1)/toys|Thrust]].

===''Transformers - Mini Bust''===
[[File:Dirge statue.jpg|thumb|Worst case of petrification he's ever had.]]
*'''Dirge''' (Diamond Select, 2008)

:Dirge was released by [[Diamond Select Toys]] in 2008 and exclusive to online retailer Big Bad Toy Store. He was sculpted by [[Mark Wong]] of [[Art Asylum]] and limited to 250 pieces. The sculpt features Dirge's distinctive wings.
{{-}}

===''The Loyal Subjects''===
*'''Dirge''' (2014)
{{charstubtoys}}
{{anchor|The Loyal Subjects Ghost}}
*'''Ghost Seekers''' (2014)
{{charstubtoys}}
{{-}}

===''Transformers Trading Card Game''===
[[File:W2Dirge.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|"Let Dirge die or draw 25."]]
*'''Dirge, Doombringer''' (2019)
**'''Wave 2: Rise of the Combiners'''
**''Rarity: '''''UT'''
**''Card Number: '''''T22/T46'''
**''Stars: ''8

:Dirge, Doombringer is one of forty character cards released in Wave 2 of the [[Transformers Trading Card Game]], Rise of the Combiners.

:The artwork for the card is reused from the [[Transformers Legends (mobile game)|Transformers Legends]] mobile game and is based on the ''[[Transformers: Generations (toyline)|Transformers: Generations]]'' Dirge figure.
{{-}}

===''ReAction''===
*'''Dirge''' (2020)

: Released in the third wave of [[Super7]]'s line of multi-property 3.75-inch "retro" action figures, ''[[ReAction]]'' Dirge is a non-converting 3 3/4-inch action figure based on his appearance in the original cartoon, with 5 points of articulation (swivel neck, shoulders, hips) and holes in his feet for use with some variety of stand. Lacking any accessories, both of his fists are closed, a rarity at this point in the line.

: As with all releases in the ''ReAction'' toyline, Dirge comes packaged on a small cardback that emulates the nostalgic packaging style of [[Kenner]]'s ''[[Star Wars (franchise)|Star Wars]]'' action figures from the late 1970s to early '80s.
{{-}}

==Notes==
[[File:Ehobbygobotscatalog.jpg|right|upright=1.4|thumb]]
* A 1980s Japanese catalog picture shows the then-new second year Seeker jet wings in different colors attached to unaltered first year Seeker bodies. In Dirge's case, the preliminary toy uses [[Skywarp (G1)/toys|Skywarp]]'s main body parts. This production stage received its own [[packaging art]] that was eventually revealed in the ''[[Legacy: The Art of Transformers Packaging]]'' book.
* Hasbro designed a "pretooled" alternate head on the ''[[Combiner Wars (toyline)|Combiner Wars]]'' Deluxe Class [[Air Raid (G1)#Generations|Air Raid]] body tooling styled on the 1985 Coneheads, but ultimately, only TakaraTomy used this head to make ''[[Transformers Unite Warriors|Unite Warriors]]'' [[Thrust (Armada)#Unite Warriors|Curse Armada Thrust]].<ref>[https://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/127888-tfss-50-live-update-now-open-to-formers-members-2012-and-on/?p=3441554 Post by Powered Convoy on The Allspark Forums, 13 February 2017]</ref>
{{--}}

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Amazon exclusives]]
[[Category:BotCon exclusives]]
[[Category:Classics Decepticons]]
[[Category:Generation 1 toy Decepticons]]
[[Category:Generations]]
[[Category:Henkei! Henkei! Decepticons]]
[[Category:Kre-O Decepticons]]
[[Category:Kreons]]
[[Category:Legacy Decepticons]]
[[Category:Mail order exclusives]]
[[Category:Masterpiece]]
[[Category:MyClone]]
[[Category:Platinum Edition]]
[[Category:Repurposed toys]]
[[Category:SDCC exclusives]]
[[Category:TakaraTomy Mall exclusives]]
[[Category:Target exclusives]]
[[Category:Timelines characters]]
[[Category:United Decepticons]]
[[Category:Universe (2008)]]
[[Category:Universe Decepticons]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Earthrise Decepticons]]

Punch (G1)

2023-03-21T17:00:43Z

Spectre: Putting what is clearly a trademark-avoiding rename assigned to one minor toy up here suggests some kind of fictional history or association with the name Nightbeat that just isn't true.

{{factions|autobot|decepticon|wreckers}}
{{disambig3|Punch}}
:''Counterpunch is a [[Decepticon]] from the [[Generation 1 continuity family|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]]. His [[Autobot]] counterpart, Punch, is nearby. Real nearby.''
[[File:G1 PunchCounterpunch art.jpg|upright=1.95|thumb|He takes his energon shaken, AND stirred.]]
'''Punch''' possesses a unique transformation ability that allows him to adopt a second robot mode—posing as a Decepticon named '''Counterpunch''' to spy on the 'Cons as a double agent.

On the surface, Punch is a stoic individual that can take charge and keep others calm in a crisis. However, this is an act that hides how paranoid he's become. His responsibilities as a spy, in addition to the things he's seen among the Decepticons, have made him a mess internally. Punch's entire personality changes when he becomes Counterpunch—although still loyal to the Autobots, Counterpunch is a violent brute that even Decepticons prefer to avoid. More recently Punch has suffered blackouts while disguised, the invented Counterpunch personality taking on a life of its own.<ref>Dreamwave [[Transformers: More than Meets the Eye|''More than Meets the Eye'' #5]]</ref> Punch is suspicious of all those around him, fearing that there could be a double agent among the Autobots operating as easily as he does among the Decepticons.

Punch is armed with a [[Mortar cannon|twin mortar launcher]]. Counterpunch wields a [[photon cannon]] which fires a circuit-scrambling energy stream. All Autobots are given an energy damper that protects them from the gun's effects but generates pyrotechnics to keep Punch's cover.

In one universe, Punch gives in completely to his Counterpunch persona and combines with the [[Wreckers]] to form [[Wreckage (G1)|Wreckage]].

{{bigquote|When you're under, right in the belly of the beast, you have to ''be'' the role. Anything less, the slightest tremor or waver--it's over, finished.|Counterpunch|"[[Secrets & Lies issue 1|Secrets & Lies #1]]"}}

==Fiction==
===''The Transformers'' cartoon===
{{voiceactor|[[John Moschitta]] (English), [[Katsuhisa Hōki]] (Japanese)|[[Hans-Rainer Müller]] (German, ''The Rebirth, Part 1''), [[Albert Augier]] (European French)}}
[[File:Rebirth punch and counterpunch.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.4|"You're all of you quite out of your depth!"]]
In [[2007]], when the Decepticons attacked [[Autobot City (G1)|Autobot City]] after the end of a [[The Return of Optimus Prime, Part 2|short-lived truce]], Punch observed [[Pounce]] and [[Wingspan]] breaking into the city while the other Autobots were occupied with the battle. Seeking to discover their objective, he transformed into Counterpunch and caught up to them when they were breaking into a vault within the city. Informing them that [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]] had told him to check up on them, Counterpunch's offer of help was rebuffed by the two clones, and Counterpunch departed, making a big noise about how he had heard his "Autobot counterpart" was "nearby... real nearby."

[[File:TheRebirth pt1 Punch FAILS.jpg|upright=1.1|thumb|Look I found James Bond! Punch him!]]
Naturally, Counterpunch promptly transformed back to Punch as soon as he had stepped out of the clones' line of sight, and opened fire on them from behind. Wingspan was able to get behind Punch and grabbed him, holding him so that Pounce could savage him in puma mode. Punch collapsed, and the two clones made off with the contents of the vault – the [[key to the Plasma Energy Chamber|key]] to the [[Plasma energy|Plasma Energy Chamber]]. [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]] soon discovered Punch's unconscious body and roused him, but Punch could only silently point to the empty vault, confirming Prime's worst fear.

Punch was subsequently part of an Autobot contingent led by Prime who pursued the Decepticons to [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]. At Prime's order, Punch, [[Cloudraker (G1)|Cloudraker]] and [[Fastlane]] began searching the planet for the key, but unbeknownst to them, it had already been been used to briefly open the Plasma Energy Chamber. The resulting energy discharge blasted a group of Autobots led by [[Kup (G1)|Kup]] across the galaxy to the planet [[Nebulos]], and the key with them. {{storylink|The Rebirth, Part 1}} Punch and the Autobot clones soon reported back to Prime that there was no sign of Kup's team or the key, prompting Prime to consult [[Vector Sigma]] for answers. {{storylink|The Rebirth, Part 2}}
{{-}}

===Japanese Generation 1 cartoon continuity===
====''The Headmasters'' cartoon====
{{voiceactor|[[Masaharu Satō]] (Japanese)|[[John Culkin]] (English, Omni Productions dub)}}

[[File:Headmasters cartoon punch.jpg|left|thumb|Queens up front.]]
By [[2011]], Punch was installed within the Decepticon ranks as Counterpunch and serving as [[Scorponok (G1)|Scorponok]]'s closely-trusted informant. Among the true information Counterpunch fed the Decepticon leader in order to maintain his cover were details of the movements of the Autobot [[Headmaster (technology)|Headmasters]] when they attempted an impassioned attack on [[Chaar]] after the destruction of [[Mars (planet)|Mars]]. Using the information, Scorponok repelled their attack, much to the chagrin of [[Soundwave (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Soundblaster]], who was particularly infuriated that Counterpunch had "somehow" turned up information that his own spying had failed to. Soon thereafter, Punch returned to the Autobot base on [[Athenia]], and informed Autobot [[Supreme Commander]] [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress]] that Scorponok was about to hold a ceremony on [[Earth]]'s [[moon (moon)|moon]] to coronate himself emperor of the Decepticons. During the ceremony, Galvatron returned from his prior apparent demise, and retook leadership of the Decepticons from Scorponok. {{storylink|Return of the Immortal Emperor}}

When both the Autobots and Decepticons received an SOS signal from the energy-deprived planet [[Sandra (planet)|Sandra]], Fortress was unsure how to proceed. Punch arrived to with information to help him come to a decision, as he let him know that the Decepticons had chosen to ignore the signal. {{storylink|SOS from Planet Sandra}}

[[File:Headmasters cartoon counterpunch.jpg|225px|thumb|Brooklyn's in the back.]]
Later, Punch informed the Autobots on Athenia of the arrival of the newest Decepticon warriors, the [[Horrorcon]]s, on Chaar. Not long after, when Galvatron departed for Earth to conduct potential peace talks with [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Spike Witwicky]], Punch soon received a nasty surprise when he discovered that Spike was actually debating with a disguised [[Sixshot (G1)|Sixshot]], and that the true Galvatron was still on Chaar, preparing to lead the Decepticons on an interplanetary energy raid while the Autobots were distracted. Punch snuck away from the crowd to radio the Autobots on Athenia and clue them in, but unfortunately, even with Punch's inside information, the Autobots were unable to stop the Decepticons from departing on their mission of evil. {{storylink|Daniel Faces His Biggest Crisis Ever!!}}

As Counterpunch, Punch stayed with the Decepticons as they hopped from planet to planet. He met up with his Autobot comrades again when the Decepticons set down on the planet [[Daros]], informing them that Scorponok had sent the Decepticon Headmasters to kill a local [[Beastformer]] that knew of the location of Scorponok's secret weak spot. Punch informed the Autobot Headmasters that he believed the Beastformer, [[Tekna]], to be hiding in the [[South-North Caves]], and [[Chromedome (G1)|Chromedome]] and [[Hardhead (G1)|Hardhead]] set off to search for him. {{storylink|Find MegaZarak's Weak Spot!!}}

[[File:Punch sneakity sneak.jpg|left|thumb|Turn around! Your cover's blown!]]
Eventually, the Decepticons returned to Chaar with a huge stockpile of [[energon cube]]s, and it was Punch's duty to find out what Galvatron's master plan for the amassed energy was. {{storylink|Ultra Magnus Dies!!}} Punch had little luck at first, bluffing his way through a carelessly-worded conversation with Galvatron and failing to learn anything more about the Decepticon leader's plan, other than that he was about to depart for Earth. Despite his lack of information, Punch raced to Earth to report his finding to Fortress with such speed that he almost forgot to transform out of his Counterpunch form before entering Autobot City. Completing his report, he then headed for the Decepticons' Earth base, in hopes of listening in on the schemes Galvatron was cooking up there. Again, he bumbled his way through an altercation with Scourge, claiming that he had been kneeling by a door because he had dropped something and quickly crawling off around a corner in search of this phantom object. He even considered switching out of his Counterpunch disguise, before he realized how foolish he was being. Finally, Punch found success with the time-honored tradition of listening through an air-vent, and discovered that Galvatron's master plan was to use the energy to fuse himself with the Earth itself. In the course of the conversation, Galvatron revealed that his head was his weakest point, and Punch quickly returned to Autobot City to reveal all he had discovered to Fortress. Fortress flew Punch to Alaska, where a battle was currently raging between Galvatron and the Autobot Headmasters, and Punch called out to inform them of Galvatron's weak spot. Enraged to discover that Punch was a spy, Galvatron soon found insult added to injury, as the Headmasters used Punch's information to finally defeat him and entomb him beneath the polar ice. {{storylink|The Emperor of Destruction Vanishes on an Iceberg}}

[[File:Punch and fortress.jpg|thumb|He's been caught red-handed!]]
With the demise of Galvatron, Scorponok once again seized Decepticon leadership, a fact which Punch quickly passed along to the other Autobots. {{storylink|I Risk My Life for Earth}} When Scorponok took the Decepticons back to planet Master, Punch, as Counterpunch, went with them, then returned to Earth after Scorponok successfully forged his [[Zarak Shield]]. Setting down in the [[Strait of Gibraltar]], Scorponok instructed Counterpunch to observe the Autobots movements for him. Counterpunch leapt from Scorponok to the shore, but before he could even turn around, Scorponok had vanished beneath the waves, leaving Punch unable to inform Fortress of the evil emperor's whereabouts. Punch vowed to locate Scorponok for his commander. {{storylink|The Final Showdown on Earth (Part 1)}} Little could Punch have known that Scorponok was operating out of the sub-oceanic ruins of [[Lemuria (myth)|Lemuria]], and was using the sunken continent's [[crysmagnetal]] to forge "[[Death Tower]]s" that would rip the Earth apart. Punch soon discovered that Scorponok was planning to outfit the Death Towers with energy induction boosters that would magnify their destructive effects, and informed Fortress and the Autobots that the villain was on his way to [[Egypt]] to do so with the Death Tower there. {{storylink|The Final Showdown on Earth (Part 2)}}

====''Unite Warriors''====
Punch and his comrades' involvement in Galvatron's defeat and icy entombment was recounted. {{storylink|Grand Galvatron Chapter}}

===''Super-God Masterforce'' comic===
Punch was among the Autobots on Athenia when the Autobot [[Godmaster (lifeform)|Godmaster]] [[Ginrai (human)|Ginrai]] was brought to the planet so that Fortress could pass the mantle of Supreme Commander on to him. Unfortunately, this led to an attack by the Decepticons under the command of [[Devil Z]]. {{storylink|The Battle Begins! The Earth-Space Alliance Army}}

===Marvel Comics continuity===
====''Regeneration One''====
[[File:Punch scorponok grimlock natural selection.jpg|thumb|left|275px|"C'mon, Grimlock! I'm still waiting for my [[Legacy of Rust|series]] to come out!"]]
After more than twenty years of peace between the Cybertronian factions, the restored [[Scorponok (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Scorponok]] invaded Cybertron and began an assault against the Autobots by manipulating their [[CNA]] with a device he dubbed the [[Gene Key]]. He found Punch to be curiously immune to the key's personality-warping effects. Deeming therefore, that the Autobot was superfluous to his plan, Scorponok ordered [[Grimlock (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Grimlock]] to execute him. Grimlock however, was not able to go through with the deed. {{storylink|Natural Selection, Part Three}}
{{-}}

====''Transformers '84''====
[[File:TF84 CounterpunchReports.jpg|upright=1.4|thumb|right|"You can trust me, Megatron!"]]
Intensely loyal to [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Optimus Prime]], Punch was the [[Prime (rank)|Prime]]'s premier spy. In his persona of "Counterpunch", he rose to a position of prominence in the Decepticon ranks, even as he was forced to commit horrible deeds against his fellow Autobots.

Before the Decepticons invaded [[Stanix]], Counterpunch was sent to bring [[Shockwave (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Shockwave]] to the [[Presidium (facility)|Presidium]] before an explosion by a half-complete [[planetary engine|planetary turbine]] sent Cybertron on a direct course towards the dangerous [[Stellae Cimeterium]]. {{storylink|Secrets & Lies issue 1|Secrets & Lies #1}}

[[File:TF84 PunchReports.jpg|upright=1.35|thumb|left|"You can trust me, Optimus!"]]
With an [[asteroid belt]] proving a more immediate threat to Cybertron, Optimus commissioned the starship [[Ark (G1)|Ark]] to clear a path through the rocks, ordering Punch to allow [[Megatron (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Megatron]] to become aware of this development. At [[Castle Decepticon]], in his Decepticon disguise "Counterpunch", Punch reported this to the tyrant, who'd already known about it thanks to [[Ravage (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Ravage]], before he met Optimus in the [[Badlands (Cybertron)|Badlands]] and informed him of the mission's success. Punch then queried about the purpose of his mission, noting that it seemed as though Optimus wanted the Ark to be attacked. Wearily, Prime revealed that was his intent. With so many of the Autobots' most elite troops aboard one ship, the Decepticons would strike, whereupon Optimus intended to crash the warship on some distant world, hoping that by removing the Decepticon elite, the Autobots remaining on Cybertron would have a fighting chance. Before Optimus left, he issued Punch a final command: Ensure, no matter what, that the Ark would ''never'' be found. {{storylink|Transformers '84 issue 0|'84 #0}}

As Counterpunch began to suspect that [[Shockwave (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Shockwave]] had deliberately fired the turbine towards the Cimeterium, [[Ratbat (G1)|Ratbat]] ordered him to bring this information to the Autobots. When the starship [[Nemesis (G1)|''Nemesis'']], the Decepticon counter to the Ark, was to launch, Counterpunch informed the irate Megatron of where Shockwave likely was. Observing the ship's launch, Counterpunch bore witness to Shockwave making plans to overthrow Megatron. {{storylink|Secrets & Lies issue 1|Secrets & Lies #1}}

[[File:SecretsAndLies2 StraxusCounterpunch.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.2]]
Carrying out Shockwave's new orders, Counterpunch promoted [[Straxus (G1)|Straxus]] to Regional Liege, giving him command of [[Darkmount (Cybertron)|Darkmount]] in exchange for an immediate assault on [[Iacon (polity)|Iacon]]. After Optimus had crashed the Ark, Counterpunch communicated with Shockwave. Before the scientist could order Counterpunch to handle Ratbat, he was forced to incapacitate the [[Conehead]]s, whereupon he left the ''Nemesis'' to tie up loose ends. Solar cycles later, whereupon Shockwave was long overdue to return, Counterpunch hailed him again to question him about the delay. As Shockwave began to explain on the rich resources of the primordial [[Earth]], he was attacked by the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobots]], interrupting the call. {{storylink|Secrets & Lies issue 2|Secrets & Lies #2}}

After using an [[auto-assembly drone]] to keep tabs on the overfuelled Grimlock, Counterpunch joined Straxus by the [[smelting pool]] where he received the authorization to reactive [[Project Dreadnought]]. Bringing this information to [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Ultra Magnus]], Punch was initially denied a wrecking crew to attack the planetary turbines before [[Impactor (G1)|Impactor]] introduced him to the newly minted [[Wreckers]]. {{storylink|Secrets & Lies issue 3|Secrets & Lies #3}}

[[File:SecretsAndLies4 CounterpunchToPunch.jpg|upright=1.3|thumb|left|[[Scene transition|DUN DA DUN DA NAAAAAAA!]]]]
Joining the Wreckers on their inaugural mission, Punch led the group to [[Stanix]] to dismantle Project Dreadnought. As he explained the specifics behind the project's infrastructure, [[Abominus (G1)|Abominus]] made himself known, scattering the attack force. While [[Twin Twist]] and [[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]] managed to scuttle away and bore underground, the rest of the group charged the [[combiner]], managing to separate the [[Terrorcon (G1)|Terrorcons]], Punch facing off against [[Rippersnapper (G1)|Rippersnapper]] until the underground duo planted explosive charges that destroyed Dreadnought.

Returning his attention to Grimlock, Punch watched the Dinobot leader fight a remote controlled Megatron who was channelling [[antimatter]]. While Grimlock managed to pierce Megatron's armor, this only exacerbated the matter/antimatter reaction, creating a gamma wave that shorted out Punch's auto-assembly drone but since Earth didn't blow up, he theorized that Grimlock had managed to deactivate [[Aunty|AUNTIE]], later suspecting, based on Ratchet's reports, that the Dinobot leader had returned to the site of his battle with Shockwave and voluntarily deactivated.

[[File:TF84 CounterpunchVehicle.jpg|upright=1.0|thumb|right]]
Retaking his position at Straxus' side, Counterpunch bore silent witness to Straxus offering the stranded Coneheads a place of power in his new order if they kept silent about the Ark's location, an offer that they readily agreed to. {{storylink|Secrets & Lies issue 4|Secrets & Lies #4}}

Four million years later, in [[1017]], Counterpunch was part of a Decepticon scouting party that was following the Autobot rescue ship ''[[Mantlo]]'' for clues on the Ark. When on [[Earth]], [[Wingspan]] located the Ark forcing the spy to execute the [[Clone (subgroup)|Clone]]. Blaming the death on the Autobots, the Decepticons came to blows with [[Fastlane]] and [[Cloudraker (G1)|Cloudraker]]. Despite their numerical superiority and critically wounding Cloudraker, the Decepticons were defeated. As Fastlane carried his brother to the ''Mantlo'' so they could try and reach the Ark, Counterpunch, full of self-loathing, followed his Prime's last command and shot the ship's cockpit causing it to crash out of control into [[Stansham Castle]] where it became buried.

Reflecting on these events, Punch would grimly note that, although he dabbled in secrets daily, war was an awful thing that left no one unsoiled. {{storylink|Transformers '84 issue 0|'84 #0}}
{{-}}

===''TransTech''===
A Punch/Counterpunch who found his way to [[Axiom Nexus]] wound up in professional sports. He became rivals with his own alter-ego in the ring. During one match up, Counterpunch won after twelve rounds. Punch graciously conceded his defeat. The two of them then took turns answering questions for reporters, switching back and forth between the two modes. {{storylink|Andromeda - Axiom Nexus News Reporter|Andromeda - Axiom Nexus News, 2015/05/04}}

===''Of Masters and Mayhem''===
[[File:TheTruthWeMake PunchCounterpunch.jpg|thumb|right|250px|Hello, Doctor Banner. FYI: I'll be taking over the body from now on.]]

Before the war, Punch used to be an actor from [[Harmonex]]. When the war began, he was among the first denizens of his city to join the Autobots. The destruction of Harmonex twenty-seven years later drove Punch into a reckless rage, one that ended with the unit under his command massacred. Punch himself was impaled on a girder in the ensuing fight. When he came to, he was approached by Autobot command, who revealed to the wounded soldier that his [[Transformation cog|T-cog]] carried an incredibly rare, one-in-a-trillion mutation that would allow him to assume a second robot form—perfect for the High Command, who were in desperate need of a mole within the 'Cons. Using his acting talents, Punch created Counterpunch to go along with Punch the infiltration expert, and masquerading as these two characters allowed him to bury his grief.

As the war ground on, Punch was stationed at [[Gargoid]], where he began acting increasingly erratic. Eventually, his field commander [[Suppressor (Generations)|Suppressor]] confronted him over the recent Autobot defeat on [[Athenia]] and raised the question over Counterpunch's role in the slaughter—displaying a damning video feed of Counterpunch enabling the attack. This evidence got the Autobot thrown in the brig; while imprisoned, he began hallucinating Counterpunch, who claimed that ''Punch'' had been the lie, a convenient secret identity for the Decepticon and the ''real'' reason why nobody had ever heard of Harmonex. What's more, Counterpunch told him that he'd had enough of maintaining the Punch identity, and that it was time for the Autobot to die.

[[File:TheTruthWeMake DecepticonsShootPunch.jpg|thumb|left|250px|"Is this... Mon Dieu!"]]

Counterpunch came to seconds before a Decepticon extraction squad arrived to spring their old friend, and joined in as the team stormed the base and finished off the Autobot garrison. Counterpunch was challenged by Punch's old rival [[Firecracker]], eager to finally finish off the "traitor" in the Autobot ranks. Counterpunch froze up—even after [[Crash Test (G2)|Crash Test]] took the blow for him and finished off the Autobot. The sight of his dead ex-comrade shocked Punch back to life... who declared that no matter ''who'' he was, the Decepticons had killed his friends and he would finish them off. Shooting Crash Test, he was exposed to a volley of fire from the other Decepticons, taking him out. His last thoughts before passing out were of Harmonex. {{storylink|The Truth We Make}}

Punch was taken to [[Paradron]] for repairs and left in [[Lifeline (G1)|Lifeline]]'s care. She managed to save the Autobot's life, as most of the damage was confined to one form. The complications of having two beings inhabiting one body meant that she wasn't able to save his original "Punch" robot mode, leaving him confined to his "Counterpunch" body and vehicle mode. {{storylink|Insight}} {{storylink|The Truth We Make}} In the wake of [[Thunder Mayhem]]'s rampage, [[Impactor (G1)|Impactor]], desperate for new recruits, recruited the monumentally confused Counterpunch into the newest iteration of the [[Wreckers]]. {{storylink|The Truth We Make}}

[[File:LivelyPursuit Wreckers.jpg|thumb|right|250px|"He could be in this very room! He could be you! He could be me!"]]
Their next stop was the jungle world of [[Chicxulania]], where they picked up [[Fractyl]]. Counterpunch fitted the pterosaur Transformer with some new upgrades after the Predacon reformatted himself back into his original jet body. {{storylink|Life Finds a Way}} Fractyl's access to some old Decepticon files allowed them to find a lost experimental base, where they recruited the sociopathic bioweapon [[Toxitron (G1)|Toxitron]]. {{storylink|The Toxic Transformer}} The next two inductees, [[Offroad (CW)|Offroad]] and [[Alpha Bravo]], prompted Impactor and Fractyl to reveal their plan to take down Thunder Mayhem: merging the five Wreckers into a brand new combiner of their own. Once everybody had undergone the augmentation process, the team headed down to a planet infested with [[Mecannibal]]s to put their skills to the test. Their new combined form, [[Wreckage (G1)|Wreckage]], trounced the threat... but then went berserk. Realizing that their combined form was an even worse liability than Thunder Mayhem, Alpha Bravo shot Offroad and then allowed himself to die, depriving the team of their most powerful asset. {{storylink|Foundation and Wreckage Part 1: Deadly Aim|Deadly Aim}}

Impactor was on the verge of quitting after that, but Counterpunch pushed him into following up on a distress signal from Cybertron. They found the Autobot gunner [[Bluestreak (G1)|Bluestreak]] living among the ruins. Bluestreak had been promised by the alien [[Teklaan]]s that they could restore Cybertron through terraforming, but needed some sparks to jumpstart the revival of the Cybertronian race. Bluestreak initially turned over the Wreckers to the Teklaans, but they betrayed him in order to add another spark to their formula. Counterpunch got the Wreckers out of their cell and they attacked the terraforming emitter. With Impactor and Bluestreak incorporated into the mix, Wreckage was reformed and destroyed the Teklaans' systems. {{storylink|Lively Pursuit}}

Counterpunch and the Wreckers received a signal tracking Thunder Mayhem to the planet [[Earth]]. {{storylink|Pandora's Gift}} There they teamed up with [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]], [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]], and the humans and [[Mega Pretender]]s of another reality to battle Thunder Mayhem. The human [[Lisa|Elizabeth]] used her power to channel Wreckage's energies and shatter the [[Matrix of Malice]], forcing the evil combiner apart. Counterpunch and the Wreckers took the Mayhem Attack Squad into custody following that exchange. {{storylink|Finale (OMAM)|Finale}}

===''Beast Wars: Uprising''===
During the [[Great War (G1)|Great War]], Punch infiltrated the Decepticon Justice Division as Counterpunch and became Megatron's most elite spy. He made his way to the Decepticon capital [[Helex (polity)|Helex]] and, with the help of the locals, assassinated a [[triumvirate]] of Decepticon warlords who had decided to govern the city-state in Megatron's absence.

In the proto-former era, statues of the DJD remain standing at the [[Mandala]], home to the [[Predacon Secret Police]]. The statue of Counterpunch had long been removed, leaving behind a plinth that merely read "''Helex: Never forget''."

[[Wolfang (Predacon)|Wolfang]]'s faction-switching body owed something to Punch's cyberbiology. {{storylink|Trigger Warnings}}

===''War for Cybertron Trilogy'' marketing material===
With Cybertron's fate sealed and the Autobots gone, the Decepticons followed them closely through space aboard the ''[[Nemesis (G1)|Nemesis]]'' in pursuit of the [[AllSpark]]. {{storylink|War for Cybertron: Earthrise|''Earthrise'' webpage}}<ref>[https://transformers.hasbro.com/en-us/brands/earthrise ''Earthrise'' website]</ref> Using his Decepticon disguise Counterpunch, Punch infiltrated the crew of the ''Nemesis'' only for his cover to be blown by [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]]. Escaping the ''Nemesis'' in an escape pod, he made his way to the nearby Disaster Planet, [[Master (planet)|Dominus]] only to be pursued by [[Barricade (IDW)|Barricade]]. Luckily for Punch, Barricade's search became troublesome, as he was faced with the planet's disastrous weather conditions. {{Storylink|War for Cybertron: Earthrise|Dominus Criminal Pursuit marketing material}}<ref>[https://www.amazon.com/Transformers-F1144-Trans-Fall-3/dp/B0855748HF Dominus Criminal Pursuit on Amazon]</ref>
{{--}}

==Games==
===''The Transformers'' (PS2)===
{{Note|Punch is a non-playable character. He appears among the legion of Autobot duplicates in the Decepticon campaign.}}
{{storylink|The Transformers (PS2)|The Transformers}}

===''Transformers: Battle Tactics''===
[[File:BattleTacticsPunchCounterpunch.jpg|thumb|right|420px|Big gun, little guy.]]
Punch participated in battles against a variety of opponents, both Autobots and Decepticons. Sometimes there were many of him! He was a promotional Super Rare character who could be recruited via the Space Bridge. {{storylink|Transformers: Battle Tactics}}
{{--}}

===''Transformers: Earth Wars''===
{{charstubgame|{{storylink|Transformers: Earth Wars}}}}
[[File:Punch EarthWars.jpg|right|thumb|He's nearby...]]
[[File:Counterpunch EarthWars.jpg|right|thumb|...Real nearby.]]

*'''Class:''' Special
*'''Lowest Star Rating:''' 2 stars
*'''Ability: Covert Operation''' - You go undercover for 10 seconds and throw EMP grenades at defences dealing some damage per second and disabling them for several seconds.
[http://wiki.transformersearthwars.com/character:punch Punch at Transformers: Earth Wars Wiki]
<br>
[http://wiki.transformersearthwars.com/character:counterpunch Counterpunch at Transformers: Earth Wars Wiki]
{{--}}

==Commercial appearances==
[[File:PunchCounterpunchCommercial.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67|Unfortunately for the Autobots, Counterpunch was TWICE as loyal to the Decepticons.]]
*Within a mechanical room, [[Hot Rod (G1)|Rodimus Prime]] handed Punch an unknown device while [[Bumblebee (G1)|Goldbug]] looked on. Saluting, Punch assured Rodimus that he could trust him. He then transformed and drove off, speeding to a rocky area where [[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]] and [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]] awaited him. Changing from vehicle mode into Counterpunch, he gave Galvatron the device. Saluting, Counterpunch assured Galvatron that he could trust him. {{storylink|Commercial/Generation 1#Punch and Clones|Punch/Counterpunch and Clones commercial}}
{{-}}

[[File:BotCon2010Promo-PunchCounterpunch.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67|He's not a double agent, he just doesn't want to clash with his surroundings.]]
*When [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] gathered Counterpunch and [[Breakdown (G1)|Breakdown]] to brainstorm ideas for ultimate weapons, Breakdown suggested they might find what they're looking for at [[BotCon 2010]]. Counterpunch brought this information to the Autobots as Punch, and the Autobots likewise made BotCon plans. {{storylink|BotCon 2010 Promo}}
{{--}}

==Toys==
===''The Transformers''===
{{anchor|Generation 1}}
[[File:G1toy-Punch.jpg|upright=1.67|thumb|One toy, twice the fun!]]
*'''Punch-Counterpunch''' (Doublespy, [[1987]])
**''Takara ID number:'' '''C-111'''
**''Accessories:'' "Twin Mortar Launcher", "Photon Cannon"

:Punch transforms into a blue Pontiac Fiero. He has two distinct robot modes, with separate guns and [[rubsign]]s for each. They have separate arms, but the backs of Punch's torso, legs, and even head are the fronts of Counterpunch's and vice versa. The top of their shared head tilts to disguise the face not currently being used.

:The transformation for Punch's robot mode depicted in the toy's instructions and animation is, in fact, not the intended transformation for the toy. As illustrated in the inset of the image at right, rather than extend all the way, as they do for Counterpunch, the legs are supposed to fold back at the "knee" with Counterpunch's feet folded out 180 degrees to become Punch's own (this, then, gives a purpose to the otherwise-pointless ridges on his feet, which now serve to keep the robot stable). This transformation—depicted in the toy's box art and on the front of his instruction booklet (sans feet)—creates a much smaller robot mode for Punch, more in-line with the proportions of the 1984 and 85 Autobot Cars, that serves to further distinguish him from Counterpunch.
::*''[http://www.tfu.info/1987/Autobot/Punch/punch.htm More information on Punch at TFU.info]''
{{--}}

===''Timelines''===
[[File:Timelinestoy-Punch.jpg|thumb|upright=2.55|Headlights are painted over for extra G1 accuracy!]]
*'''Punch-Counterpunch''' (Deluxe Class, [[2010]])
**''Accessories:'' Pistol, engine supercharger intakes

:One of two [[Transformers Collectors' Club]] [[exclusive]] toys offered in [[2010]], Punch-Counterpunch is a [[retool]]ing of the [[Transformers: Universe (2008 franchise)|2008 ''Universe'' series]] [[Sunstreaker (G1)/toys#Universe (2008)|Sunstreaker]]/[[Sideswipe (G1)/toys#Universe (2008)|Sideswipe]] mold, transforming into a ''heavily'' modified {{w|Lamborghini Gallardo}} with customized engine supercharger intakes mounted just behind the roof. This supercharger can form a sort of "jetpack" by attaching to his back in Punch mode, chest armor in Counterpunch mode, or be attached to the pistol to make a larger gun. The pistol can also be mounted on a peg-hole in the robot-mode shoulder.

:Punch-Counterpunch makes use of the mold's two robot-mode configurations as a single toy. His new head replicates the original toy's two-faced "flip-cap" head, hiding the eyes of whichever face he isn't using at the time. (The fists need to be [[Partformer|physically swapped between the two if you ''really'' want to be super-accurate]].) Punch's face now has a mouth as per his "[[The Rebirth]]" model, but retains the toy's separate eyes. His head is very very very tiny, likely to accommodate his fliptop forehead during transformation. Coincidentally, Fun Publications failed to release photos of his robot mode until after the toy was already in buyers' hands.

:Punch went up for pre-order on the Club site on the evening of [[March 26]], 2010 at a price of $59. Despite pictures of his robot modes remaining unseen throughout, all 1800 units sold out by the morning of [[March 29]], the biggest and fastest sell out of a Club exclusive yet. Punch started shipping [[June 15]]. So great was the demand for Punch that a second run of only 300 figures was produced, which went on sale on [[August 11]]. These were limited to one-per-customer, and were only available to customers who had not purchased a Punch previously, but despite these restrictions, they were sold out within only a few hours.

:This mold was also used to make ''[[Henkei! Henkei! Transformers (toyline)|Henkei! Henkei!]]''/''[[Transformers: Generations (toyline)|Generations]]'' [[Red Alert (G1)/toys#Henkei! Henkei!|Red Alert]] and the [[BotCon 2010]] exclusive [[Breakdown (G1)#Timelines 2|Breakdown]]. This iteration of the mold also inspired the non-toy ''[[Beast Wars: Uprising]]'' version of [[Wolfang (Predacon)#Beast Wars: Uprising|Wolfang]].

:Punch features the hole where the light bar would screw in on ''Henkei! Henkei!'' Red Alert on the top of his car mode roof, though it is covered with a rub symbol.

:Anyone looking to buy this figure on the aftermarket be warned, there is a similar-looking [[knockoff]] that's been making the rounds since at least 2014, with the packaging bearing a small "CHMS" logo on it.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2010/Autobot/TFCCPunch/punch.htm More information on TFCC Punch at TFU.info]''
{{UniverseSunstreakerMold}}
{{--}}

===''Kre-O''===
[[File:KreO-Toy Nightbeat.jpg|thumb|right|300px|DEATH BY CHOCOLATE REAL NEAR BY]]

*'''Nightbeat''' (Kreon Micro-Changer, 2014)
**''Bag number'': '''40551 50'''
**''Accessories'': Stand brick, scoped pistol

: Part of the fifth assortment of [[blindpacking|blind-bagged]] [[Kreon]] [[Micro-Changer]]s, <s>Punch</s> Nightbeat can be rebuilt from robot mode into a car based on Punch's vehicle mode. He sports [[Sideswipe (Kre-O)|Sideswipe's]] helmet.

: We couldn't tell you how this toy received the name of a completely separate character, but subsequent toys having a prefix in front of "Punch" suggest trademark limitations were involved in this decision.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2014/Autobot/Kre-ONightbeat/nightbeat.htm More information on Nightbeat at TFU.info]''
{{--}}

===''Combiner Wars''===
{{anchor|TFSS}}
[[File:TFSS-5.0-Counterpunch.jpg|upright=0.83|thumb|I'm the reason there will never be a ''Combiner Wars'' [[Slicer (G1)|Slicer]].]]
*'''Wrecker Counterpunch''' (TFSS 5.0, [[2017]])

:Part of the [[Transformers Figure Subscription Service#Series 5.0 (2016)|Figure Subscription Service 5.0]], ''[[Combiner Wars (toyline)|Combiner Wars]]'' "Wrecker Counterpunch" (who doesn't turn into his Punch form) is a retool of ''Combiner Wars'' Deluxe Class [[Wheeljack (G1)/toys#Combiner Wars|Wheeljack]] using the mold's alternate head, transforming from a supercar resembling a Lancia Stratos to robot and back! As a ''Combiner Wars'' Deluxe limb he is able to combine with any ''Combiner Wars''-style Voyager Class figure or form one of [[Godbomber#Legends|''Legends'' Godbomber]]'s legs, though he is normally the left arm of [[Wreckage (G1)#Generations|Wreckage]].

:Counterpunch was released along with [[Toxitron (G1)#Toys|Wrecker Toxitron]] and [[Starscream (SG)#Generations|Shattered Glass Starscream]].
{{CWBreakdownMold}}
{{--}}

===''Power of the Primes''===
[[File:TF-Generations-Deluxe-Class-Special-Edition-Punch.jpg|upright=2.66|thumb|I heard your wallet is nearby. ''Real nearby.'']]
*'''Punch-Counterpunch''' (Special Edition, [[2018]])
**''TakaraTomy ID number'': '''PP-44'''
**''TakaraTomy release date'': [[February 23]], [[2019]]
**''Accessories'': [[Prima#PWTSE|Prima Prime]] Prime Master, gun, Prime Armor/Combiner Hand, Prime Master filler/gun
{{toydesigner|[[Yūya Ōnishi]] (TakaraTomy)}}

:''[[Power of the Primes (toyline)|Power of the Primes]]'' Punch-Counterpunch is a "Special Edition" Deluxe Class figure that transforms into either robot mode as well as a supercar resembling a 2nd Generation Honda NSX with Volk TE37 wheels. The transformation includes a flip-out helmet and fists for each robot mode, as well as two-way knees, elbows, and a simple rearrangement of [[kibble]]. Instead of the Twin Mortar Launcher and/or the Photon Cannon, Punch-Counterpunch comes with a single orange gun based on his weapon in [[Transformers: The Headmasters (cartoon)|''The Headmasters'' cartoon]].

:Like all other ''Power of the Primes'' Deluxe Class figures, he comes with Prime Armor (identical to the one included with [[Jazz (G1)/toys#Power of the Primes|Jazz]]) with a place for a [[Prime Master#Toys|Prime Master]], [[Enigma of Combination#Generations|Enigma]], or [[Matrix of Leadership/toys#Power of the Primes|Matrix core]] that can transform into a hand or foot for a separate combiner. He also comes with the Prime Master [[Prima#PWTSE|Prima Prime]], which can interact with the figure via the [[Titan Master#Toys|Titan Master]]/Prime Master pegs on the back of his car or the included Prime Armor. In an undocumented (and likely accidental) feature, Prima can be stored folded up inside the driver's compartment in car mode. Punch's gun can also be mounted on either of the Prime Armor's 5 mm holes or mount on the top of his car mode or be clipped under the chassis.

:Unlike all other Deluxes in the subline, Punch-Counterpunch lacks the combiner peg, making him the only non-Combiner Deluxe or Voyager Class figure released in this lineup.

:Punch-Counterpunch also suffers a slight [[misassembly]]: his shoulder joints are installed upside down, making it harder for the arms to tab in properly in vehicle mode. This can be easily repaired without any tools. His box art shows Punch's chest and the gun accessory to be yellow colored, instead of the orange of the actual figure. Also, care must be taken while rolling his vehicle mode as Punch's chest piece and Counterpunch's painted feet are very, '''VERY''' close to the ground. While rolling him on a flat surface is fairly safe, a rough surface can damage both of these areas.

:This set was an [[Amazon (website)|Amazon]] exclusive in the U.S., initially revealed via preorder listing without any prior announcement from Hasbro. It was also available at general retail in Hong Kong, the Philippines, Malaysia, and Singapore.
{{--}}

===''War for Cybertron: Earthrise''===
[[File:TF-WFC-GOC-Dominus-Criminal-Pursuit-Punch-Counterpunch.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Counterpunch is (not) the impostor.]]
*'''Dominus Criminal Pursuit''' (Galactic Odyssey Collection, 2020)
**''TakaraTomy ID number'': '''ER EX-25'''
**''TakaraTomy release date'': '''[[May 29]], [[2021]]'''
**''Accessories'': Gun

:Released as part of the "Dominus Criminal Pursuit" 2-pack, this Punch/Counterpunch is a redeco of the ''Prime Wars Trilogy'' Deluxe Class figure, in brighter colors akin to [[Nightbeat (G1)|Nightbeat]]. Other changes include the additional yellow stripe underneath the car doors and the omission of paint detailing on the upper thighs and tires, along with lacking the Prime Master Armor. Unlike the ''Power of the Primes'' release, he is packaged as Counterpunch.

:While the set's Amazon listing calls this figure "Punch/Counterpunch", the two robot modes are named in the instructions as "Counterpunch" and "Autobot Punch", suggesting the latter name cannot be [[trademark]]ed without the "Autobot" prefix.

:The "Dominus Criminal Pursuit" 2-pack also contains [[Barricade (IDW)#War for Cybertron: Earthrise|Barricade]].

:This two-pack was released as an [[Amazon (website)|Amazon]] exclusive in the United States initially, but appeared on [[Hasbro Pulse]] on March 5, 2021. This figure was also available at general retail in Hasbro's Asian markets such as Singapore. In Japan, the two pack was released as a [[TakaraTomy Mall]] exclusive.
{{--}}

==Notes==
[[File:TF-Punch-Prototype-Heads.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6|MY FACE ACCEPTS ALL MAJOR CREDIT CARDS.]]
*Punch sports a considerably different prototype face during his first commercial, one that may have served as inspiration for the design of his face used in the 1987 commercial and the American cartoon. Counterpunch is the same, however.
*The Doublespy concept seems to have been kicking around for a while before actually being executed:
**A concept sketch exists that depicts Punch/Counterpunch as a high-tech jet more in line with the 1986+ aesthetic which transforms in a way somewhat similar to the final car version.<ref>[[Transformers Generations|Transformers Generations Deluxe]], p97.</ref>
**Not one but two early patents were filed for a car Doublespy. The first patent depicts a car that can turn into a large robot or split straight across the middle, with the front and back ends of the car each transforming into a separate robot. It uses a car model identical to the final Punch/Counterpunch.<ref>[http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19860524&CC=JP&NR=S61106187A&KC=A Patent #JP61-106187]</ref>
**The second patent keeps the car as a single unit, however the car now folds along the center from the front bumper to the rear windshield. One robot mode is formed when the car is transformed normally, the other is formed when the car is transformed and folded to reveal a new head, chest, and arms. This model has an identical leg transformation to the final version.<ref>[http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=1&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19880219&CC=JP&NR=S6338484A&KC=A Patent #JP63-038484]</ref>
*At [[San Diego Comic-Con]] 2010, a Punch/Counterpunch miniseries referred to as ''[[Legacy of Rust]]'' was announced.<ref>http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/san-diego-comic-con-33/san-diego-comic-con-2010-idw-publishing-panel-highlights-170274/</ref> Although [[Stuart Moore]] wrote all four issues, it was never released.<ref>http://womenwriteaboutcomics.com/2015/02/27/windblade-returns-in-transformers-combiner-wars/</ref>

===Foreign names===
====Punch====
*''Japanese:'' '''Spacepunch''' (スペースパンチ ''Supēsupanchi''), '''Punch''' (パンチ ''Panchi'')
*''French:'' '''Pugilil''' (Canada)
*''Italian:'' '''Spy'''
*''Mandarin:'' '''Shuāng Miàn Rén''' (双面人, "Double-faced Man")
*''Russian:'' '''Punch''' (Панч ''Panch'')

====Counterpunch====
*''Japanese:'' '''Counterpunch''' (カウンターパンチ ''Kauntāpanchi'')
*''French:'' '''Contrecoup''' (Canada, "Counterpunch")
*''Italian:'' '''Ultraspy'''
*''Russian:'' '''Vyshibala''' (Вышибала, "Bouncer")

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

[[Category:Amazon exclusives]]
[[Category:Beast Wars: Uprising Autobots]]
[[Category:Combiner Wars Decepticons]]
[[Category:Combiners]]
[[Category:Double agents]]
[[Category:Fan Club exclusives]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Autobots]]
[[Category:Generation 1 cartoon Autobots]]
[[Category:Generation 1 cartoon Decepticons]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Decepticons]]
[[Category:Kre-O Autobots]]
[[Category:Kreons]]
[[Category:Power of the Primes Autobots]]
[[Category:Power of the Primes Decepticons]]
[[Category:Regeneration One Autobots]]
[[Category:Spies]]
[[Category:Super-God Masterforce Autobots]]
[[Category:Super-God Masterforce Decepticons]]
[[Category:TakaraTomy Mall exclusives]]
[[Category:The Headmasters Autobots]]
[[Category:The Headmasters Decepticons]]
[[Category:Timelines characters]]
[[Category:Transformers with three modes]]
[[Category:TransTech Autobots]]
[[Category:TransTech Decepticons]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Earthrise Autobots]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Earthrise Decepticons]]
[[Category:Wreckers]]

Talk:Razorclaw (Universe)

2023-03-18T04:00:09Z

Spectre: /* Nonbinary Razorclaw */

Wait, which is the more accurate quote: "Know that my name is Razorclaw" or "Know I am Razorclaw"? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 07:26, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
:"Know that I am ''Razorclaw,'' that my reality is not yours, and while I share Tigerhawk's dual spark and ''Vok'' heritage... I am ''not'' he!"
:Incidentally, the article is misleading. He only gave that speech to the first group of Maximals. All he said to Primal was, "The name... is ''Razorclaw!"'' But I don't have the energy to change it tonight. Anybody else wants to, be my guest. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 07:39, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

== Fugly ==

Mostly my opinion of the decos on early waves of Universe, mind you.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 00:55, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
: I hear black and purple is pretty [[neon]], myself! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:17, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

== Tiger vs. Panther ==

Is there any canon stating either way? Also, if it is to be changed; changing one instance and leaving several others is confusing.[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 11:51, 23 March 2010 (EDT)
: I just want us to be accurate. There are no all black tigers. Panthers are leopards or jaguars that have a lot of extra pigment and are mostly or completely black. If Razorclaw had stripes of ANY color it would be okay, but he has no stripes at all. --[[User:Cliffjumper prime|Cliffjumper prime]] 12:02, 23 March 2010 (EDT)
::Actually, while very, very rare, black tigers have appeared in historical record. Similar cause as melanistic leopards, but they do happen. Also blue tigers. [[USer:Eire]] 16.09 Mar 23 2010
::: I look at it like the difference between Battle Cat and Panthor... same mold, but one's a tiger and one's a panther. --[[User:Cliffjumper prime|Cliffjumper prime]] 12:06, 23 March 2010 (EDT)
::::But, he does refer to himself as an alternate Tigerhawk. Which may suggest that was his original name prior to Heraldisation. Which would mean he was always a black tiger/hawk fuzor (although Airrazor's a falcon) or the working for Unicron changed his colours [[USer:Eire]] 16.14 Mar 23 2010
:::::Or that Unicron changed more than his colors. [[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:11, 23 March 2010 (EDT)
:::::: I just don't want us to all look ignorant to a newcomer who doesn't know about a retcon technicality. perhaps this should be made clear in his trivia/notes. --[[User:Cliffjumper prime|Cliffjumper prime]] 12:13, 23 March 2010 (EDT)
:::::::Panther is used for melanistic leopards and jaguars, but I'm not sure if it is used for melanistic tigers. You are either assuming that the word is so used or assuming that the species was changed for this character (like Cheetor/Tigatron). I really don't care either way, but want there to be concrete evidence (actual dictionary meaning, canon, something...) to back it up. As for your point about Battle Cat/Panthor, those were explicitly mentioned as being those species. [[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 12:21, 23 March 2010 (EDT)
::::::: I just don't see why this has to be a whole big discussion. You ask anyone what kind of animal he is, they'll say panther/hawk. but whatever. --[[User:Cliffjumper prime|Cliffjumper prime]] 12:26, 23 March 2010 (EDT)
::::::::It's not. Similar to how albino or "sport" tigers are referred to as white tigers, melanistics were just called black. I suppose it's because the black alters the overall look of a leopard or jaguar enough for it to look like a separate animal. Tigers always look like tigers. Very distinctive heards. The only other use of panther I know of refers to pumas [[USer:Eire]] 16.31 Mar 23 2010
Also, panthers still retain the original markings since they are imprinted on the skin. Show up under close inspection or om bright light. So you'd still be able to see the stripes on a black tiger [[USer:Eire]] 16.34 Mar 23 2010
:Eire said it best earlier: He's an alternate-universe Tigerhawk. Which means he's still part Tigatron and part Airazor. Which means in spite of his black deco, he's still a winged tiger. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 13:58, 23 March 2010 (EDT)

Dear fucking God.<br>
We are talking about an ALIEN BIOMECHANICAL CREATURE who was put through Unicron's recolor-o-matic. There are no burgundy gorillas or purple wolves/eagles or purple spiders either in real life, but OH LOOK HAY. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 14:18, 23 March 2010 (EDT)

==Razorclaw made the "Dirty Dozen" bad toy list back in 2004==
Probably a completely forgotten parent group called "The Lion & The Lamb Project" had Universe Razorclaw and the Beast Wars video games on the list of toys NOT good for pre-schoolers. Not sure if this is notable, but it's neat. http://www.lionlamb.org/dirtydozen2004.htm [[Special:Contributions/198.111.56.66|198.111.56.66]] 20:10, 15 September 2010 (EDT)

==Retooled Missiles==
The toy description says the missiles are "slightly retooled". In what way? --[[User:Tigerpaw28|Tigerpaw28]] ([[User talk:Tigerpaw28|talk]]) 22:29, 3 December 2013 (EST)

==Nonbinary Razorclaw==
This was discussed on the discord last week a while after the nonbinary category being created, due to Tigerhawk being nonbinary. Why was this contested Thylacine 2000?
:Forgot to sign [[User:Causeway|Causeway]] ([[User talk:Causeway|talk]]) 22:48, 17 March 2023 (EDT)
::Because while Razorclaw shares Tigerhawk's dual spark and Vok heritage, he is not him. We know nothing about Razorclaw's background or internal identity, and should not presume similarities onto him when the whole point of his existence is to be kind of like Tigerhawk but not quite. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 23:12, 17 March 2023 (EDT)
:::I'm inclined to agree with Thy on this. Razorclaw isn't Tigerhawk. He's a different character with different experiences and different perspectives, from a different universe. There's nothing in-fiction to justify Razorclaw being nonbinary. I understand the intent of showcasing the wide spectrum of gender identity in Transformers, and I think that's a good goal, but applying it here doesn't feel honest to me. [[User:Spectre|Spectre]] ([[User talk:Spectre|talk]]) 00:00, 18 March 2023 (EDT)
:::Wasn't he Tigerhawk at some point, thought? IDK why becoming Razorclaw would change his gender. [[User:Iacon0|Iacon0]] ([[User talk:Iacon0|talk]]) 23:53, 17 March 2023 (EDT)

User:Spectre

2023-03-17T23:12:58Z

Spectre:

wrote your favorite counterpunch story

Ironfist (G1)

2023-03-16T15:44:01Z

Spectre: I don't think it's right to say IDW Ironfist is silvery-gray. He's very much tan, and very different from the almost white of Fub Pub's coloring. Don't think this comment is an honest assessment.

{{factions|autobot|autobotg2|wreckers|eliteguard}}
{{disambig3|Ironfist}}
:''Ironfist is an [[Autobot]] [[Lightformer]] from the [[Generation 1 continuity family]].''
[[File:Ironfist-WoHprofile.jpg|upright=1.67|thumb|You wait seventeen years for a personality and then ''two'' come along at once!]]
For '''Ironfist''', there is no greater work of art than an ingenious piece of weaponry. Others can have their metamorphic rock sculptures of unclothed [[human]] males or oil-based images of smiling females, but a tracer cannon that can take out a [[Decepticon]] battalion a [[Units of length|hic]] away is (almost) all that Ironfist admires. Unsurprisingly, this Autobot gun nut gets into the thick of a battle, no matter what the terrain, so long as the action is fast and furious. However, Ironfist still finds the time to silently regard the weapons of war.<ref>Generation 1 Ironfist packaging bio</ref>

In datanet circles, Ironfist is known by his user-name '''[[Fisitron (G1)|Fisitron]]'''. Fisitron is a dedicated [[Wreckers]] fan-boy and writer of the ''[[Wreckers: Declassified]]'' datalogs, an in-depth chronicle of their many dangerous adventures. They're his heroes. Ironfist hopes his passion for weaponry attracts their attention, but if he were ever to meet them, he'd probably faint from over-excitement.<ref>Depiction in the 2005-2018 IDW comics</ref>

Sometimes he sounds like he's from [[Nebulos]].

==Fiction==
===2005 IDW continuity===
:*''First Appearance:'' [[Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 1|Transformers: Last Stand of the Wreckers #1]]

{{bigquote|I fought my first campaign in the Manganese Mountains, where I spoke to [[Optimus Prime (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Optimus Prime]] for the first and last time. He mistook me for somebody else.|Ironfist|[[Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 4|''Last Stand of the Wreckers'' #4]]}}

[[File:IntimateBeheading-Ironfist.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.67|I <3 Delta Magnus! :)]]
Ironfist was [[Reproduction|constructed cold]] before the war began {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 4|Last Stand of the Wreckers #4}} and took a job in the Ballistics department of the [[Iaconian Mechaforensic Division]]. An enthusiastic but naive nerd, he didn't even know what a Decepticon was ''during the [[Clampdown (event)|Clampdown]]''. As well as his ballistics skills, he was famed for his nerdy love for [[Delta Magnus]] and the [[Primal Vanguard]]: buying any relic they ever touched, using Delta's catchphrase "glorious" all the time, and building a life-size model of Delta. ([[Flatfoot (G1)|Flatfoot]] confiscated it.) Most of his workmates made fun of him, so [[Chromedome (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Tumbler]] decided to be nice and pretend he shared Ironfist's hobby; Ironfist would then spend ages talking poor Tumbler's ear off about the bloody Vanguard. This hobby ''did'' come in useful though, when Tumbler needed a replica Matrix for a heist and Ironfist just happened to have one. {{storylink|Shadowplay (Conclusion): An Intimate Beheading|An Intimate Beheading}}

[[File:LastStandoftheWreckers4-CONverttoday.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|He only got the [[mouthplate]] to cover up his bad acne.]]
Later, he finally laid eyes on the Decepticon badge just three days before [[Zeta Prime (G1)|Zeta Prime]] was killed. He took his first life before the war ''officially'' started and his next after [[Megatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Megatron]] activated the [[Nightmare Engine]]. Sometime after this, he also altered his head's design to look like a Primal Vanguard helmet. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 4|Last Stand of the Wreckers #4}} After joining the Autobots, he apprenticed under [[Wheeljack (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Wheeljack]] before heading to the [[Manganese Mountains]] on his first campaign. It was there he designed [[Optimus Prime (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Optimus Prime]]'s signature [[ion blaster|laser rifle]], although Optimus thought Ironfist's chief rival [[Skyfall (G1)|Skyfall]] was responsible.

He was subsequently stationed at the [[Kimia Facility]], where he worked as a weapons designer and engineer. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 4|Ironfist's psyche profile}} Experimental weapons he created were widely used throughout the war, and while Ironfist enjoyed his work, he'd never allow himself to feel pride for causing the deaths of thousands. Over the course of the war, he lost his eleven closest friends, including [[Nautilus]], and developed a deep hatred for the Decepticons. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 4|Last Stand of the Wreckers #4}}

When not designing weapons, Ironfist would spend most of his time in front of a computer screen. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 4|Ironfist's psyche profile}}

One big defining moment in his time was briefly seeing [[Impactor (G1)|Impactor]] in action, raiding the Vosian Citadel. ''That'' drove him towards a deep, abiding fandom for the [[Wreckers]] {{storylink|Bullets}} and he became known online as their unofficial historian. Under the sobriquet "Fisitron", he cataloged, disseminated, and glorified their exploits through a series of 331 datalogs that became known as the ''[[Wreckers: Declassified]]'' series. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 1|Last Stand of the Wreckers #1}} {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 4|Ironfist's psyche profile}} They're very popular, though people have noticed he tends to repeat some phrases over and over (which fans call "[[Fisitronism]]s".) {{storylink|Bullets}}

He helped Skyfall get a job at Kimia and even let him use his workshop, and the two became friends. Strangely, sometime after Skyfall came along, Ironfist's invention [[Gideon's Glue]] (so horrifying that Ironfist himself destroyed it) ended up in Decepticon hands and suspicion briefly landed on ''him''! Ironfist was exonerated though. Later, he used his influence to get Skyfall out of a [[Garrus-9]] posting so he could keep enjoying his friend's company: he even promised him he could have his workshop if he ever died. {{storylink|Bullets}}

[[File:LastStandoftheWreckers4-KimiaWeaponsFacility.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.67|That's a can of Bawls, isn't it?]]
Shortly after that promise, in a [[Skyfall (G1)|horrible twist of fate]], {{storylink|Bullets}} a lab accident embedded a prototype [[cerebro-sensitive bullet]] in Ironfist's skull, which began slowly edging towards his brain, leaving him with only a short time to live. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 5|Last Stand of the Wreckers #5}} Just to make things worse, the [[Ethics Committee]] ''banned'' these bullets under Protocol III of the [[Non-Conventional Weapons Act]], and use of them in future would be deemed a war crime under the [[Tyrest Accord]]. Committee member [[Trailbreaker (G1)|Trailbreaker]] openly expressed his disapproval of Ironfist for creating such weapons. {{storylink|Bullets}}

He would have lived out the rest of his life holed up in his lab until [[Prowl (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Prowl]] contacted him one day. Prowl had been keeping tabs on Ironfist and had read all the material he had written as Fisitron. Prowl informed Ironfist that [[Springer (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Springer]] was forming a new Wreckers team, and that there was a space available on it if Ironfist wanted it ''badly'' enough. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 4|Last Stand of the Wreckers #4}} Prowl had believed that since Ironfist knew he was going to die, he would make a good potential candidate to bypass suicide lock of [[Aequitas]], the infallible guilt-determining supercomputer that was the heart of Garrus-9's justice system; the suicide lock meant that, if security was compromised, a volunteer would have to give up their life to get past its security codes. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 5|Last Stand of the Wreckers #5}} Prowl pulled strings and as a result, Ironfist got to the front of the queue. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 3|Last Stand of the Wreckers #3}} {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 4|Ironfist's psyche profile}}

[[File:Dead Men's Boots Ironfist.jpg|thumb|upright=1.2|Please ignore the Secret Motivating Tragic Backstory on the screen behind me.]]
Ironfist was personally approached by Springer, via hologram, for recruitment into the Wreckers (he briefly thought he was seeing the [[Shimmer]], the legendary being that heralded your death). {{storylink|Bullets}} However, Ironfist embarrassed himself when he started babbling on about what he thought the survival rate of the Wreckers really was, if one considered [[Rack'n'Ruin (G1)|Rack'n'Ruin]] a single robot. {{storylink|Dead Men's Boots}}

Before his deployment, [[Brainstorm (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Brainstorm]] found out that Ironfist's cerebro-gun had been tampered with. Ironfist realized that Skyfall had done it and began to realize how many other things the bot had done, but departed Kimia without confronting his "friend". Instead, he set things up so that the instant he died, a recorded message containing proof of Skyfall's crimes would be sent to ''everyone'' following the Declassified feed. {{storylink|Bullets}}

Shortly thereafter, Ironfist found himself waiting with [[Pyro (G1)|Pyro]], [[Guzzle (G1)|Guzzle]], and [[Rotorstorm (G1)|Rotorstorm]] to be inducted into the Wreckers from an outpost on the [[Igue-Moor Fuel Depot]], Ironfist thought he'd test-run his new [[lightformer cannon]]. Unfortunately, he blew up one of the [[Autobot]]s' local reconstruction projects, causing its overseer [[Dipstick]] to throw a fit.

[[Ultra Magnus (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Ultra Magnus]]'s ship landed shortly, and Ironfist and the other inductees were greeted by several famous members of the Wreckers. Ironfist was practically beside himself when he identified [[Kup (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Kup]], but [[Verity Carlo]] noted that Kup "changes his oil like everyone else." And while Springer began to brief them, Ironfist fainted.

[[File:LastStandoftheWreckers1-Ironfist.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.67|You should see my Wreckers bedsheets!]]
Eventually Ironfist's systems rebooted, and he immediately tried to downplay his reaction. But after some prodding from Guzzle, Ironfist resigned himself to an explanation. He revealed himself as Fisitron, the famous Wreckers historian and fanboy. As Ironfist began rambling, [[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]] and [[Twin Twist]] were amused to hear that their files were classified. Ironfist was understandably embarrassed and excused himself. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 1|Last Stand of the Wreckers #1}}

On the way to [[Garrus-9]], the ship encountered Impactor, who had just escaped from the prison. Ironfist and the other new recruits were forced to wait around in another room as Springer and Ultra Magnus questioned the Wreckers' former leader. They passed the time speculating on why Impactor was kicked out of the Wreckers and locked-up after a certain incident on [[Pova]]. Ironfist deeply believed that the "official" reason given for Impactor's incarceration was a cover-up, but he couldn't speculate on what had actually occurred. Later on, Ironfist was tasked with replacing Impactor's missing right hand. He rigged-up a [[harpoon]]-launching substitute for the former leader of the Wreckers, but decided not to take the opportunity to question Impactor on the real reason he was imprisoned. Soon thereafter, Springer held a briefing and revealed that [[Overlord (G1)|Overlord]] had taken over Garrus-9 and was using it as his personal playground. In addition to liberating the place from Overlord and rescuing the Autobot prisoners still trapped within, Springer also announced a secondary objective. That was to secure something code-named "[[Aequitas]]", which was secreted somewhere deep within Garrus-9.

[[File:LastStandoftheWreckers2- Fanboy Ironfist.jpg|thumb|upright=1.5|Oh dear lord, he's ''[[Fandom|us!]]'']]
Once the plan to breach Garrus-9's defenses had been finalized, Ironfist gifted Guzzle and Pyro with cerebro-sensitive bullets he had brought along, much to Guzzle's delight. Ultra Magnus and Springer reviewed the security logs and noted Ironfist's previous blackout with some concern. Upon arriving at their destination, the Wreckers were split between two entry pods and launched from Ultra Magnus' ship. Ironfist's group consisted of [[Perceptor (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Perceptor]], Topspin, Pyro, Rotorstorm, and Verity, who had stowed away without anyone's knowledge. The pods breached Garrus-9's defenses and the pod containing Ironfist landed smack-dab in the middle of the "Pit"—Overlord's makeshift arena. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 2|Last Stand of the Wreckers #2}}

Ironfist and the others found themselves surrounded by dozens of Decepticons and Overlord himself. Rotorstorm tried to make light of the tense situation with a little joke, which no one save Overlord laughed at. Unfortunately, Overlord then showed his "appreciation" for Rotorstorm's sense of humor by blowing a hole in the Autobot's head. Perceptor ordered Pyro to protect Verity as he, Ironfist, and Topspin lunged for Overlord, but the three Wreckers were completely physically outmatched by the Decepticon powerhouse.

Upon hearing from [[Stalker (G1)|Stalker]] that there were Wreckers in another part of Garrus-9 as well, Overlord broadcast a message across the entire prison, saying that any Decepticon that brought him the head of a Wrecker would be allowed to leave. It was apparently a very enticing offer, as the mob of Decepticons that had been watching nearby surged towards Ironfist and company. Perceptor managed to delay their advance by sniping a spare fuel tank they had brought along, and the Wreckers took the opportunity to dash away.

[[File:LastStandoftheWreckers3 - Ironfist breakdown.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.5|Apparently, the Wreckers have a very misleading brochure.]]
Once there was a bit of distance between them and the Decepticons, Ironfist sagged against a wall, head in his hands. The shock of Rotorstorm's death was setting in, and Perceptor tried to calmly urge him on. But Ironfist's illusions of being a Wrecker had been shattered by what he had witnessed just minutes before. He was in it for the dramatic heroics and adventures-he hadn't expected such a display of raw violence and gore. Topspin angrily slammed him against a wall and pointed out that while Guzzle, Pyro, and Rotorstorm were all officially voted into the Wreckers, there had been no such distinction for Ironfist. Topspin labeled him a glorified tag-along and told him that "people die in stupid, pointless ways. Deal with it." Ironfist snapped out of his funk and furiously told Topspin not to lecture ''him'' about death. Perceptor broke it up and told them they couldn't afford to get personal at the moment.

Soon, they found the chamber in which Aequitas was stored. Perceptor ordered Ironfist to stand guard as he attempted to breach the door. The stripped-down and ravaged form of [[Fortress Maximus (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Fortress Maximus]] was discovered plugged into it. While Pyro and Topspin disconnected Maximus from the door, Perceptor entered the proper codes to open the chamber. Ironfist quickly caught up with them to warn that the Decepticons were close to breaching the outer doors, but the Aequitas chamber had been opened by this point. The Wreckers walked in as Perceptor revealed Aequitas to them {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 3|Last Stand of the Wreckers #3}} and revealed their mission was to download all the information stored within its hard drive and make sure the Decepticons didn't get their hands on it.

[[File:LSOTW4 Ironfiststoryteller.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6|'''<?>''' ''Your relationship with Verity has changed.'']]
When Topspin complained about this, Ironfist abruptly agreed and started to claim they should go. At that moment, Topspin began suffering the effects of vicarious perception, as his sibling Twin Twist was being tortured somewhere else in Garrus-9. Perceptor told Ironfist and Verity to watch over Topspin as he and Pyro worked on finding an access port for Aequitas.

Hearing the Decepticons still trying to breach the door from outside, Verity asked Ironfist to talk to her about something- anything to keep her mind off their predicament. Ironfist complied, telling her what he'd read about the Wreckers' showdown on Pova with [[Squadron X]]. Perceptor called for everyone to gather by the Aequitas console, informing them of the supercomputer's "suicide lock" and how it could only be bypassed by someone willingly offering up their own spark to the machine. Through process of elimination, Ironfist glumly realized it could only be himself or Pyro, the "second-stringers". Pyro adamantly refused to be the sacrifice, claiming that his life was ultimately the more valuable. Verity angrily told Pyro that Ironfist had as much right to live as he did. Ironfist lost his temper, but after a moment, he decided he was ready to die after all, just as he'd agreed with Prowl. But before Ironfist could do so, Topspin stepped up to the console and plugged himself in, killing both Jumpstarters and allowing Perceptor to log in.

[[File:LastStandoftheWreckers4- IronfistAequitasupload.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.1|I see the light and it ''burns.'']]
Ironfist was selected by Perceptor to receive the contents of Aequitas' hard drive for safekeeping. Now having access to all of Aequitas' prisoner files, the full extent of Impactor's crime was revealed to Ironfist. As the Decepticons outside had almost breached the door, Perceptor revealed he could use Aequitas to activate the deterrence chips in the ex-prisoners' heads to kill them all. Pyro pointed out that this would also trigger the chip in Impactor's head. Perceptor put it to a vote, with Pyro voting against. Ironfist, the truth revealed to him, threw his vote in with Perceptor. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 4|Last Stand of the Wreckers #4}}

Verity made an impassioned plea to Ironfist and Perceptor, pointing out that no matter what Impactor did, the Wreckers as chronicled by Fisitron's datalogs would never take this course of action. Perceptor decided Verity was right and they would do things "the old fashioned way". Pyro volunteered to hold the mob of Decepticons off while the others escaped. Ironfist and Pyro shared a moment of understanding before they left him to his fate.

[[File:LastStandoftheWreckers5- Ironfist Perceptor Verity.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|Ironfist's new Heroes For Hire team didn't last for very long.]]
Ironfist told Perceptor that they had to stop by Garrus-9's weapon stores before joining the others, as he had a good idea. Verity asked Ironfist if Pyro could hold out for long, and Ironfist assured her that he would put up a good fight. Verity then asked Ironfist what he had learned about Impactor from the Aequitas download. Ironfist told her the truth about Pova, and Impactor's crimes.

They arrived at the battle just in time to save Springer from Overlord. Ironfist tossed Springer a giant gun procured from the weapon stores, and Springer emptied it into Overlord. Overlord promptly ripped Springer's face off and followed by blasting Perceptor, leaving just Ironfist and Verity. Ironfist warned the Decepticon to stay back; He had loaded the Gatling gun given to Springer with deterrence chips, which had now all been injected into Overlord. Since he had the whole of Aequitas in his head, he could remotely control all deterrence chips with his mind. With a mental command, Ironfist detonated the chips in Overlord, but suddenly clutched his head in pain and collapsed, suffering another blackout.

[[File:LastStandoftheWreckers5- Ironfistaneurism.jpg|thumb|upright=1.1|left|Faneurysm.]]
Ironfist came back online to find Overlord defeated, with Verity promising to fill him in later. Unfortunately, Ironfist died en route to [[Earth]] from a mechanical aneurysm. He managed to make a copy of the Aequitas data stored in a [[data slug]], which Ultra Magnus eventually passed on to Prowl. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 5|Last Stand of the Wreckers #5}} Unbeknownst to the Autobots, he also left a backup slug with Verity. {{storylink|In Word and Deed}}

At Kimia, Ironfist's recorded message ensured Skyfall was revealed as the amoral monster he was. {{storylink|Bullets}} His body was interred in the Zone of Remembrance at ''[[Debris]]'', the Wreckers' home base. {{storylink|Zero Point}} On Earth, a mournful Verity wrote the last Wreckers datalog as "Fisitron", chronicling "The Wreckers' Last Stand". {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 5|Last Stand of the Wreckers #5}}

Some time later, Ironfist's old workshop was offered to his mentor Wheeljack by Xaaron. {{storylink|Chaos Theory Part 1|Chaos Theory #1}} A statue to him was erected within Kimia, though it suffered some damage during an attack by the [[Sweep (G1)|Sweeps]], {{storylink|Chaos Part One: Lamentations|Lamentations}} and was presumably destroyed with the rest of Kimia when it was later detonated by [[Lightspeed (G1 Technobot)|Lightspeed]] and [[Afterburner (G1)|Afterburner]].

[[First Aid (G1)|First Aid]], a subscriber to Ironfist's ''Wreckers Declassified'' datalogs, would later use the [[unspace|subspace]] network formerly used to send Ironfist's datalogs to subscribers to transmit [[Delphi]]'s patient survival statistics to its subscribers as a cry for help of sorts. {{storylink|Life After the Big Bang}} [[Ratchet (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Ratchet]] and First Aid would bond over their love for Ironfist's writing and how both think a lot about how they could have saved his life. {{storylink|How Ratchet Got His Hands Back}}

[[File:SOTW5 Ironfistcorpse.jpg|thumb|upright=0.9|Damn you, Netflix!]]
[[Chromedome (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Chromedome]] would later use [[mnemosurgery]] to change Overlord's memories of his defeat at Ironfist's hands, causing him to believe Ironfist had said "[['Til all are one]]" before detonating the deterrence chips. This phrase was added to all of Overlord's memories being defeated in order to insert [[Trepan's Trigger]] in his subconscious. {{storylink|Remembrance Day}}

When he left the ''Lost Light'' aboard the ''[[O Fortuna]]'', First Aid's leaving present from [[Rewind (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Rewind]] and [[Tailgate (G1)|Tailgate]] contained a photograph of Swerve and Ironfist. {{storylink|The One Where They Go to Earth}}

After Impactor crashed the ''Debris'' directly into [[Tarantulas (BW)|Tarantulas]]'s [[Noisemaze (dimension)|Noisemaze]], Ironfist's casket was one of the many that spilled out of the damaged space station. It crashed to the ground and revealed its late occupant, horrifying the nearby Verity. {{storylink|Sins of the Wreckers issue 5|Sins of the Wreckers #5}}

Some time later on [[Moonbase One|Luna 1]], Red Alert misremembered Ironfist queuing to join the crew of the ''Lost Light'' alongside other incongruous characters, such as First Aid, [[Bumblebee (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Bumblebee]] and [[Ambulon]]. {{storylink|Last Light (issue)|Last Light}}
{{-}}

===''Wings Universe''===
Before the war, Ironfist was a mere factory worker assigned simple tasks, but a defect in his construction had installed an unnecessary second data processor. In his spare time, Ironfist filled this processor with every minutia about munitions he could get his hands on. When [[Magnum]] stumbled across him during an unscheduled review of his factory, Ironfist was trying to put together a replica of the astoundingly complex [[BAMF-12602]]. Ironfist was fast-tracked to the [[Elite Guard]] and put on [[Metalhawk (G1)|Metalhawk]]'s team. Now a trained munitions expert, he proved skilled with explosives, though his simple beginnings kept him from grasping even the basic tenants of battlefield strategy. Without supervision, Ironfist was likely to dart into battle unorchestrated, guns blazing. {{storylink|Hasbro Transformers Collectors' Club issue 36|Ironfist's profile in Club magazine #36}}

[[File:ComingStorm2-Ironfist.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.67|So [[Pete Sinclair]] says, "No WAY someone else is gonna use Ironfist this year!"]]
Metalhawk's team partnered with [[Thunder Clash]]'s team to face a plague of [[Virulent Clone]]s. Ironfist's explosives were particularly effective against their foes, though his fellow Elite Guardsman [[Dion (G1)|Dion]] was often covered in Insecticon goo as a result. He liked to call Dion "sailor," even though Dion kept reminding him that prior to the war he worked on the docks, not the ships. Ultimately, the Elite Guard was victorious over the Virulent Clones.

The two squads relaxed for a moment until Thunder Clash received a call from [[Magnum]], ordering Metalhawk's squad to ferry Thunder Clash's to [[Space Port Bravo]]. The two squads then packed their gear onto the ''[[Hawk's Claw]]'' and headed out. Once at the spaceport, the two squads said their goodbyes, with Ironfist getting all emotional and foggy-opticed.

Afterward, [[Over-Run (G1)|Over-Run]] wondered out loud to the rest of the squad where they'd end up next. When Dion commented that he was eager to beat up some Decepticons, Over-Run asked chastisingly if Dion had ever seen a Decepticon up close before. Both Over-Run and Ironfist were puzzled by Dion stalking off angrily in response, with Ironfist wondering out loud if Dion ''had'' seen one before.

The squad soon re-boarded their ship and headed to Elite Guard HQ, where they found out that their next assignment was going to involve Magnum's [[Combaticon (G1)|newest special ops group]]. {{storylink|The Coming Storm: Part 2}}

These "Combaticons" joined Ironfist's group for debriefing on their trek to [[Median]]. It sounded like a boring mission, basically a peace exercise to placate the civilian council. Ironfist stopped paying attention during the discussion of Median's purpose, something about "deectology", but perked up suddenly when the topic of mining with explosives was broached.

Luckily(?), Median turned out to be more the Elite Guard's sort of mission than they originally thought. One of the relics uncovered in the dig was an urn containing the so-called "[[Heart of the Dragon]]". Based on the tech-specs recovered along with the urn, it apparently contained the [[laser core]] for a living weapon of ultimate potential, and had already come to the attention of some renegade Decepticons known as the [[Stormtrooper (G1)|Stormtrooper]]s, who were caught casing the joint a few cycles earlier.

The Guardsmechs set up a perimeter in preparation for enemy invasion, and split into two squads to engage the intruders. Ironfist was teamed with [[Onslaught (G1)|Onslaught]] and the Combaticons, along with their security liaison, [[Strika (BM)|Strika]]. They secured [[Roadgrabber]], the advance guard, but [[Rage (G1)|Rage]] and his Stormtroopers got past Metalhawk's Squad B, so Ironfist's squad prepared to repel them. Once they got in visible range, however, only half the Stormtroopers were present—they were using [[sensor ghost]]s to fool the Elite Guards ranged scans. With two Decepticons unaccounted for, Onslaught dispatched Ironfist and [[Vortex (G1)|Vortex]] back to the urn chamber as a rear guard. The urn chamber was already raided, however, and Ironfist was caught off-guard by [[Aquablast]]'s chemical cannon, and sent into temporary [[stasis lock]] for the duration of the battle.

After he recovered, the Autobots set off across the landscape to catch up with the Stormtroopers. They made their way inside the [[Metrotitan (G1)|Metrotitan]], Rage's mobile fortress, only to be confronted by a creature known as [[Brimstone (G1 Decepticon)|Brimstone]]. Rage had transplanted the laser-core into a small exo-frame for testing, creating a tiny dragon whose bite WAS bigger than his bark, and could decouple atoms to boot. The Elite Guard commenced a tactical advance to the rear with all due haste. Despite the urgency of the situation, Ironfist gleefully responded when Onslaught issued the greatest order he'd ever heard: ''"Ironfist, get all of your explosives ready."'' Several pretty colors and one large boom later, though, Brimstone was slightly charred, significantly angrier, but otherwise no worse for the wear. Ironfist and the others eventually escaped the Metrotitan only with the assistance of [[Drench (G1)|Drench]], one of the Stormtroopers who wanted out, just before Brimstone's power overloaded completely, destroying the Metrotitan.

Following the mission, Magnum was comparing incident reports back at base and noted that Ironfist's contained only a single sentence. (Likely submission: ''"Thee explosion could've beeeen biggah."'') {{storylink|Flames of Yesterday}}

Ironfist's team and the Combaticons continued working together over the following weeks, and Ironfist got another chance to blast off his arsenal during the mission against [[Shadowcaster]]. {{storylink|The Coming Storm: Part 3}} Immediately the Combaticons disappeared, and Ironfist's team was ordered to try to hunt them down wherever they may be. Their search took them into some very unglamorous places, where the team was approached by a demented Empty which spoke cryptically of a "coming storm" where "rain will fall down" and the "thunder will deafen you" and where the "lightning will burn." After a bit of this, Ironfist's team grew weary of the Empty and left him.

[[File:ComingStorm6-buggah.jpg|upright=1.67|thumb|Ironfist has learned an Aussie-ism. Just one, and he's gonna keep using it until he learns a second.]]
But the Empty spoke true. Sentinel Major sent their team a distress call, as their Elite Guard headquarters was under attack. Metalhawk ordered his team back to base, where they met up with [[Ricochet (Timelines)|Ricochet]] on the outer skirts of the battle. He showed them a video feed of the battle's epicenter, where, bogglingly, the Combaticons had switched their allegiance to the Decepticons and had sieged the Elite Guard. Something about the Combaticons looked a little different than before, and, sure enough, the reason for this was revealed when the five of them combined for the first time into the super robot [[Bruticus (G1)|Bruticus]], crushing Sentinel Major to death in his mighty fist. {{storylink|The Coming Storm: Part 5}}

Metalhawk led Iron and the others deep into the battle to assist the dwindling members of the Elite Guard. Ironfist broke ranks and plunged ahead, weapons blazing, despite Metalhawk's pleas. No matter what the odds, Bruticus was going to pay for murdering Ironfist's friends, some of whom he even liked! In [[alternate mode|vehicle mode]], he ramped up an inclined piece of debris into the super robot's chest, knocking the monster down. But Bruticus was quicker than Ironfist reckoned, and his giant fist closed in on the Autobot before he could flee. Ironfist was granted a temporary reprieve from death when Over-Run and his remote helicopter drone distracted Bruticus, but Ironfist refused to retreat to safety, believing his [[lightformer cannon]] had been granted an opening to fire on their huge opponent. However, both he and Over-Run were crushed when Bruticus grabbed the helicopter drone and flung it into them. {{storylink|The Coming Storm: Part 6}}

[[File:BattleLines4-Ironfist.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.67|He's not very good at sounding Australian, but to be fair this was 9 million years ago.]]
Ironfist managed to survive and was eventually repaired. He, [[Big Bang (G1)|Big Bang]], [[Rumbler (G1)|Rumbler]], and [[Sprocket (G1)|Sprocket]] caught up with [[Magnum]]'s team in time for Ironfist to stop the Combaticons from forming Bruticus again. The quartet joined in the battle against [[Deathsaurus (G1)|Deathsaurus]] and [[Starscream (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Starscream]] and at one point Ironfist thought they might just be winning, until Starscream clobbered him. The Autobots did eventually triumph, though Deathsaurus and Starscream both got away. {{storylink|Battle Lines, Part 4}} A week after the battle, he was part of the Autobot forces at [[Iacon (polity)|Iacon]]'s city walls as the Decepticons broke through with [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]]. {{storylink|Battle Lines, Part 5}}
{{-}}

===''Of Masters and Mayhem''===
Fisitron anonymously uploaded countless stories of the Wreckers' exploits for Autobots and Decepticons alike to read, until [[Thunder Mayhem]] annihilated the whole team, save [[Impactor (G1)|Impactor]]. {{storylink|Hasbro Transformers Collectors' Club issue 68|Impactor's profile in Club magazine #68}}

===2019 IDW continuity===
[[Thunder Clash|Thunderclash]] considered Ironfist to be a trusted ally and included him in a list of potential recruits for a new team of Wreckers. {{storylink|Tread & Circuits Part 4}}

==Toys==
===''The Transformers''===
{{anchor|Generation 1}}[[File:G1-toy-Ironfist.jpg|upright=1.67|thumb|[[Luke Cage|Luke who]]? Never heard of him.]]
*'''Ironfist''' ([[Lightformer]], [[1993]])
**''Accessories'': Gun emplacement
{{toydesigner|[[Takio Ejima]] (TakaraTomy)}}

:''[[The Transformers (toyline)|The Transformers]]'' Ironfist transforms into an AM General M998 Humvee military off-road vehicle. Mounted on his roof is an ENORMOUS repeater cannon turret that can rotate 360° and pivot upwards at its base. This weapon uses a combination of the [[light-piping]] and gear-wheel [[gimmick]]s so that when you look through the "viewscope" and rapidly push the spring-loaded post at the rear of the turret, the gold cannon will slide back and forth, the grey "ammo" drum on top will rotate while the view from the scope makes it look like twin beams of laser-fire are striking your selected target. The cannon turret has a fold-down stand to become a gun emplacement for Ironfist to man in [[robot mode]].

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/1992/Autobot/Ironfist/ironfist.htm More information on Ironfist at TFU.info]''

===''Generation 2''===
*'''Ironfist''' (Lightformer, [[1994]])
**''Accessories'': Gun emplacement

:This release is identical to his 1993 release, but in ''[[Transformers: Generation 2 (toyline)|Generation 2]]'' packaging, and was on a blister card instead of in a box.

==Notes==
*Lightformer Ironfist's gun-gimmick simulates twin beams of laser fire striking his target... but the gun only has one barrel. Hmm.
*In a French [[Commercial/International|commercial]] that featured Ironfist, his voice was pantomimed as a generic 1950s robot monotone. So was Pyro's. It must be a thing. [http://www.ina.fr/pub/culture-et-loisirs/video/PUB3774423048/hasbro-transformers-jouet.fr.html]
*Independently, both [[Fun Publications]] and [[IDW Publishing]] chose to use Ironfist in their stories for [[2010]], mostly because nobody'd ever done anything with him before and nobody'd be likely to! Ha ha ha ha ha whoops. Unsurprisingly, this has led to Ironfist being perhaps one of the first characters in a non-[[Simon Furman|Furman]] story to receive "[[Bludgeon (G1)|The Bludgeon Effect]]" whereby, much like [[Razorbeast#Notes|Razorbeast]] in ''[[Transformers, Beast Wars: The Gathering|The Gathering]]'', popular new fiction has suddenly caused his previously insignificant toy to rocket in value on the secondary market many years after its release.
*Unlike his fellow Lightformer [[Deftwing]] and their opponents, [[Trakkon]]s [[Fearswoop (G1)|Fearswoop]] and [[Calcar]], Ironfist sported the same name on both [[multilingual packaging|bilingual]] European packaging [[variant]]s (English/Spanish and French/Dutch).
*Unused concepts for a ''[[Combiner Wars (toyline)|Combiner Wars]]'' Ironfist toy birthed the new character [[Ironclad]].

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Ironfist''' (アイアンフィスト ''Aianfisuto'')

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Elite Guard]]
[[Category:European-original Transformers]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Autobots]]
[[Category:Generation 2 Autobots]]
[[Category:IDW (2005) Autobots]]
[[Category:Wings Universe Autobots]]
[[Category:Wreckers]]

Hexadeathimal

2023-02-22T08:00:49Z

Spectre: Called out in the story, not a mistake!

{{factions|decepticon}}
{{disambig3|Killswitch}}
:''Hexadeathimal is a [[Decepticon]] [[Six Changer]] from the [[Of Masters and Mayhem]] portion of the [[Generation 1 continuity family|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''
[[File:TheTruthWeMake Killswitch.jpg|thumb|upright=1.1|Fear my name!]]

Once, he was known as '''Killswitch''', but that was before this vicious Decepticon mastered [[Six Changer|all five]] of his terrifying [[alternate mode]]s. Now, the [[Six Clan|Clan of Six]] has blessed him with a new name fitting for a mighty Six Changer like himself. The Autobots shall tremble before the wrath of '''Hexadeathimal'''!

Or rather, they would if it wasn't impossible to take him seriously with that name.
{{bigquote|First of all, buddy, that doesn’t really roll off the ol’ vocal processors. Second, shouldn’t you save that for your 16th mode?|[[Punch (G1)|Counterpunch]]|"[[The Truth We Make]]"}}

==Fiction==
===''Of Masters and Mayhem''===

Hexadeathimal joined a squad of Decepticons in liberating [[Punch (G1)|Counterpunch]] from the Autobot outpost at [[Gargoid]]. When Counterpunch fell to his Punch personality and turned against them, however, the Decepticons blew him away. {{storylink|The Truth We Make}}

==Notes==
[[File:Quickswitch decepticon boxart.jpg|thumb|upright=1.5]]
*Killswitch is based on an unused Decepticon deco for [[Quickswitch]] that was first revealed to exist in ''[[Legacy: The Art of Transformers Packaging]]''. His name was picked out for being similar to Quickswitch's in the same way that [[Greatshot]]'s is similar to [[Sixshot (G1)|Sixshot]]'s.<ref name=spectre>[http://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/128200-new-tcc-prose-counterpunch-story-the-truth-we-make/?p=3227346 Post by Spectre on the Allspark]</ref> As written, he wasn't intended to be the Decepticon [[Killswitch]], who debuted in [[Ask Vector Prime]], but [[Jim Sorenson|the creator]] of ''that'' Killswitch thinks of it as a valid take on the same "archetype", so whether or not they can be considered the same "character" is down to whose [[authorial intent]] you give precedence.<ref name=spectre /><ref>[http://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/128200-new-tcc-prose-counterpunch-story-the-truth-we-make/?p=3227473 Post by Jim S on the Allspark]</ref>
*His Six Changer name is hilarious.

==References==
{{Reflist}}

[[Category:Fan Club-original characters]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Decepticons]]
[[Category:Prose-only Transformers]]
[[Category:Transformers with multiple modes]]

Greatshot

2023-02-22T07:48:44Z

Spectre:

{{faction|autobot|decepticon}}
:''Greatshot is an [[Autobot]] [[Six Changer]] from the [[Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Victory (franchise)|Victory]] portion of the [[Generation 1 continuity family|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''
[[File:GreatshotBoxart2.jpg|right|thumb|upright=1.4|Ironically, his aim is terrible.]]

A loner, the ninja-like '''Greatshot''' (グレートショット ''Gurētoshotto'') took a while to become an Autobot team player. Of course, even after he did, he still prefers to do things his own way.

Greatshot's six modes, ranging from robot to rhino, make him one of the most lethal warriors the Autobots have.

{{TOCclear}}

==Fiction==
===Japanese Generation 1 cartoon continuity===
{{Note|In [[2018]], the ''[[Transformers Legends (comic)|Legends]]'' comic introduced a [[retcon]] that established Greatshot to be a new identity for the Decepticon Sixshot—something that wasn't made explicit during the original [[Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Victory (cartoon)|''Victory'' cartoon]]. See [[Sixshot (G1)#Japanese Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Sixshot's page]] for more on his pre-Greatshot history.}}
{{:Greatshot/JG1}}

===''PDTF Comic'' comic===
[[File:Greatshot PD Type manga.jpg|thumb|upright=1.2|YEAH!]]
While [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] and [[Hot Rod (G1)|Rodimus Prime]] high-fived and celebrated victories against the Decepticons, a shadowy ninja lurked in the background, cloaked by shadow. Greatshot claimed it was merely an act of desperation. {{storylink|PDTF Comic##15 "No One Knows When He's Come or Gone. Greatshot..."|No One Knows When He's Come or Gone. Greatshot...}}

===''Transformers: The Ultimate Pop-Up Universe''===
[[File:GreatshotAligned-UltimatePopUpUniverse.jpg|thumb|upright=1.1|left]]
Pursuing the AllSpark after it had been launched into space, Greatshot was one of the many Autobots that found their way to Earth. There, he participated in a great battle within a human settlement against the Decepticons. {{storylink|Transformers: The Ultimate Pop-Up Universe|The Ultimate Pop-Up Universe}}
{{--}}

===2005 IDW continuity===
[[File:LonelyPillarOnThePlain-forgottenskirmish.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66]]
Greatshot was among the Autobots commanded by [[Prowl (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Prowl]] at the battle that destroyed [[Junkion (planet)|Junkion]]. At one point he fought against [[Fangry (G1)|Fangry]]. {{storylink|New Cybertron Part 2: A Lonely Pillar on the Plain|A Lonely Pillar on the Plain}}
{{--}}

==Toys==
{{picsneeded|Complete toy}}
===''Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers''===
{{anchor|Victory}}
[[File:G1GreatShot_Toy.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|Missing his jet nose and using another bot's guns... but still bad-ass!]]
*'''Greatshot''' ([[1989]])
**''ID number:'' '''C-325'''
**''Accessories:'' 2 "great lasers"guns

:Greatshot is a [[retool]] of [[Sixshot (G1)|Sixshot]] with several completely new parts, including his shoulders, chestplate and both his robot and animal-mode heads. Like Sixshot, he has six different modes: a robot, a tank, a spaceship, a gun, an off-road vehicle, and a winged rhinoceros (retooled from Sixshot's wolf mode). Each of these modes has their own functionality, including things like a trigger (that is, a little plastic panel that springs back after you pull on it) for his gun mode. His two guns, retooled to have slightly longer handles than Sixshot's, fit into different holes in every mode.

:As with Sixshot, Greatshot's robot mode is mostly a [[Brick (term)|brick]], with no real [[articulation]] to speak of.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/1989/Cybertron/GreatShot/greatshot.htm More information on Greatshot at TFU.info]''
{{--}}

===''Legends''===
[[File:TF-Legends-LGEX-Greatshot.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|I want to fly like a rhino<br>To the sea<br>Fly like a rhino<br>Let my spirit carry me]]
*'''Greatshot''' ([[March 31]], [[2018]])
**''ID number'': '''LG-EX'''
**''Accessories'': [[Jack (G1)|Jack]] Headmaster, 2 "great laser" blasters

:[[Transformers Legends (franchise)|''Legends'']] Greatshot is an extensive redeco/retool of ''Titans Return'' [[Sixshot (G1)#Titans Return|Six Shot]], with some new parts including the bigger chest wings and the rhino head. While ''Legends'' Sixshot's Headmaster is a new mold decoed like a miniature Sixshot, Greatshot's Headmaster, [[Jack (G1)|Jack]], is a retool of ''Titans Return'' [[Revolver]], albeit in different colors and with a new robot mode backpack for head mode faceplate.

:This figure's packaging and instructions continue to label what is clearly an upside-down laser gun mode as a submarine. Being a retool of ''Titans Return'' Six Shot, Greatshot is very likely to inherit the mold's notoriously loose joints, as they are simple pinned hinge joints or swivels. Unlike with other versions of the mold, the Headmaster ''must'' be removed for transformation, as the horns of the figure's new helmet have to be folded into the space otherwise occupied by the Headmaster, so that it can fit into the figure's chest.

:Greatshot was a [[TakaraTomy Mall]] [[exclusive]]. He was available for pre-order on 11 October at 12:00 am until 2 November at 1 pm, and was shipped on 31 March 2018.

:The original version of this mold was also used to make ''Titans Return'' [[Quickswitch#Generations|Quickswitch]].
{{--}}

==Notes==
[[File:BraveShadowmaruKagerouModels.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6|The ninja storm is growing! Shadowmaru is on the left.]]
*For a while, there was much [[fandom]] speculation that Greatshot was an upgraded version of [[Sixshot (G1)|Sixshot]]. The supplemental character [[bio]] included with Greatshot's toy stated that he was a former compatriot of both Sixshot and [[Sixknight]], who in turn were all members of the "[[Six Clan]]" that "secretly rules over the galaxy". Regardless, they both had the [[Michihiro Ikemizu|same actor]], who voiced them both with a stereotypical {{w|samurai}} movie dialect. The belief that the two were the same would eventually [[Canonizing|be made canon]] in [[Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. EX (Greatshot)|Greatshot's ''Legends'' pack-in comic]], where the cartoon version of Greatshot was presented as Sixshot in a new body.
*The supplementary bio further states that Greatshot frequently carries out secret ninja missions, further tying him in with the "Ninja Staff Officer" Sixshot and the "Ninja Knight" Sixknight.
*The Greatshot mold was later retooled to make the heroic "Ninja Detective" '''Shadowmaru''' (シャドウ丸) for Takara's ''[[Brave (franchise)|Brave Police J-Decker]]'' toyline. Amusingly, while the other 5 forms are of standard size for the series (assuming 5 meters in robot mode), his size for gun mode was increased to the point that, in ''Transformers'' terms, [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]] could use him for an oversized rifle. Shadowmaru also had a prototype "brother", '''Kagerō''' (カゲロウ), who could only change into three forms. The latter was not produced as a toy. [http://2too.blog93.fc2.com/blog-entry-166.html More on Shadowmaru here.]
*In 2015, [[IDW Publishing]]'s ''[[The Transformers: More than Meets the Eye|More than Meets the Eye]]'' comic series introduced [[Greatsix]], a Decepticon under the command of the IDW incarnation of Deathsaurus, based on an early design of Greatshot and utilizing Shadowmaru's colors.

[[Category:IDW (2005) Autobots]]
[[Category:Japanese-original Transformers]]
[[Category:Legends Autobots]]
[[Category:Ninjas]]
[[Category:Transformers with multiple modes]]
[[Category:Victory Autobots]]

Starscream (SG)

2023-02-21T22:55:52Z

Spectre:

{{factions|sgDecepticon|hofsilver}}
{{disambig3.5|the heroic Decepticon second-in-command|his evil counterpart|Starscream (G1)|Starscream}}
:''Starscream is a heroic [[Decepticon]] from the [[Transformers: Shattered Glass (franchise)|Shattered Glass]] [[continuity family]].''

[[File:SGStarscream.jpg|thumb|right|350px|True North, Strong and Free!]]

'''Starscream''' is an intelligent and personable scientist who acts as [[Megatron (SG)|Megatron]]'s main science guy and [[second-in-command]], and constantly peppers his sentences with (genuine and effusive) admiration for his great leader.

In fact, Starscream may be his commander's greatest advocate. Even when Megatron has lost faith in himself, Starscream is there to support him. His faith isn't the blind faith of a zealot, but the earned trust and loyalty of a comrade. Starscream understands that if the Decepticons are to succeed, they need their leader. Even if Megatron himself will never understand.

He still cares for his old friend [[Jetfire (SG)|Jetfire]], even as their paths have put them against each other.

{{quote|Of ''course''! You're a ''genius'', Starscream!|A [[Megatron (SG)|Megatron]] legitimately praises a Starscream for once|"[[Shattered Glass (issue)|Shattered Glass]]"}}

==Fiction==
===Shattered Expectations===
[[Image:Shattered Starscream.jpg|thumb|left|200px|"I'm here to kick ass and chew bubblegum—and I've got ''fifteen packets'' of gum, punk!"]]

Working for the [[Quintesson Federation]], the just and fair-minded Starscream attempted to arrest [[Goldbug (SG)|Goldbug]] and his comrades. Tracking them to a secret bunker containing ancient [[Pretender]] technology, he declared their plot was over "before it even begins!" and requested they surrender. When they resisted, he called in the might of the [[Mayhem Suppression Squad]]. {{storylink|Shattered Expectations (SG)|Shattered Expectations}}

{{_-}}

===Fun Publications ''Shattered Glass'' continuity===
[[Image:SGStarscreamAltmode ShatteredGlass.jpg|right|250px|thumb]]
Starscream graduated from the [[Crystal City Science Institute]] as the most ingenious 'bot on all of [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]. Then the war broke out. When [[Optimus Prime (SG)|Optimus Prime]] tried to draft the genius, he refused, and, as punishment, the [[Autobot]]s demolished [[Crystal City]] before Starscream's very eyes. Fleeing underground, Starscream joined the [[Decepticon]] resistance headed by Megatron. Starscream threw himself into his work, hoping that, one day, his scientific acumen could be used for peaceful purposes. {{storylink|#Timelines|BotCon 2008 Starscream profile card}} He got a chance to pursue that ideology, even if by somewhat violent means, when an alternate version of [[Cliffjumper (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Cliffjumper]] accidentally crossed over from a universe in which the Autobots were good into Starscream's world. With Cliffjumper's help, Starscream created "[[glass gas]]" bombs to use on the ''[[Ark (SG)|Ark]]''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s launching platform to destroy it. He then participated in the attack that followed, leading the initial attack run. {{storylink|Shattered Glass (issue)|Shattered Glass}}

Sometime later, Starscream was part of the defense of the [[Arch-Ayr]] fuel dump that the Decepticons had recently rediscovered. When Megatron was injured enough to be taken out of the fight, Starscream fussed over and helped repair him. He also helped provide cover fire for the [[Mayhem Suppression Squad]]'s assault after they were called in by [[Soundwave (SG)|Soundwave]].

After the Autobots were beaten back into hiding behind cover, he was as surprised as everyone else by the appearance of the [[Dinobot (SG)|Dinobots]], and their disruption of the fight that caused the Autobots to retreat fully back to [[Iacon (polity)|Iacon]]. As the Decepticons then discussed the now running-loose Dinobots, Starscream agreed with [[Dirge (SG)|Dirge]]'s suggestion that they attempt to capture some of them to bolster their own forces. He especially looked forward to being able to recover the AI matrix he had developed that [[Wheeljack (SG)|Wheeljack]] had stolen to make the Dinobots. Megatron ordered Starscream to gather a small force of their best mechs and have them commence the "Dinobot Hunt".

After the hunt was successful in recovering eight of the Dinobots (now Dinocons), Starscream successfully upgraded the Dinocons' brain modules and ensured they were comfortably housed, fed, and otherwise cared for. Until [[Grimlock (SG)|Grimlock]] took them on a little trip, that is... {{storylink|Dungeons & Dinobots}}

Several cycles later, Starscream discovered that the Dinocons had somehow gained [[Spark|ember]]s and the ability to transform. Despite this sudden revelation, the Decepticons moved forward with their plan to follow the Autobots into space.

Later on, Starscream was present when [[Ricochet (SG)|Ricochet]] called the Decepticons to demand a ransom for the return of Megatron. Starscream insisted that the safe retrieval of Megatron was the highest priority. Cliffjumper was able to convince the panicked Starscream that Megatron would want them all to proceed with the readying of the ''[[Nemesis (SG)|Nemesis]]'', and Starscream reluctantly agreed.

Finally, the ''Ark'' lifted off, and the ''Nemesis'' followed. Starscream presided over the bridge of the Decepticon ship as it jumped into [[Unspace|transwarp]] towards [[Earth]]. Upon their arrival, the two ships engaged in battle, with the Decepticons taking the upper hand and managing to shoot the ''Ark'' out of the sky and send it crashing down to Earth. The [[human]]s, however, would prove to be a more successful threat. A [[fusion bomb]] detonated near the ''Nemesis'', severely disrupting the ship. Starscream remained on board as the rest of the crew escaped in pods, guiding it away from population centers with the help of Cliffjumper. {{storylink|Do Over}}

Starscream and Cliffjumper both survived the ship's crash-landing while ensconced in the crash compartments. When [[Heatwave (Timelines)|Heatwave]] and Soundwave finally discovered them with several humans in tow, Starscream helped explain their situation to the humans. After Starscream finished his explanation by saying he felt the ''Ark'' was taken care of and their priority was gathering their crew and returning home, Cliffjumper disagreed and said they should make certain that the Autobots were indeed out of commission. Starscream mulled this over and decided Cliffjumper was correct, and ordered them to go out and work on finding the escape pods of their crew while he remained behind, as his [[alternate mode|altmode]] would be too conspicuous.

When [[Rodimus (SG)|Rodimus]] broadcast a message about holding Earth hostage with the [[Burpleson Air Force Base|military base]] and [[Global Orbiting Defense Satellite]]s he had taken control of, Starscream overheard it and ordered the others (who had since located [[Crasher (SG)|Crasher]]) back to the ''Nemesis''. They discussed the situation, and after Heatwave was able to locate the base the Autobots were holed up in, Starscream ordered them to assault it while he remained behind to serve as "mission control". The mission was ultimately successful. {{storylink|Eye in the Sky}}

Stuck on Earth, Starscream and his men busied themselves helping out the humans, such as when they thwarted [[Arachnolord]]. When [[Blitzwing (SG)|Blitzwing]] was augmented with an [[oPod]], Starscream realised that as it was broadcasting on an Autobot frequency, Blitzwing would render any Autobot near him helpless. He tested the theory by taking Blitzwing and [[Slugslinger (SG)|Slugslinger]] with him to stop [[Swoop (SG)|Swoop]] and [[Star Saber (SG)|Star Saber]] from attacking a restaurant. He was impressed when it worked, however Blitzwing's new ability became uncontrollable and began broadcasting on Decepticon frequencies as well. After Blitzwing fled, Starscream blamed himself for neglecting the well-being of one of his men. To protect themselves from the broadcast, he ordered the base locked down and all of the Decepticons into emergency stasis while Soundwave, who was unaffected, searched for Blitzwing. Once Blitzwing was retrieved, Starscream helped extract the oPod and was able to help out Soundwave with some legal trouble he had gotten himself into with [[Thunderwing (SG)|Thunderwing]]. {{storylink|Blitzwing Bop}}

The Decepticons worked on building a [[Space bridge#Shattered Glass|stellar spanner]] of their own, though Starscream had to put up with Soundwave's atrocious puns while doing so. They finally contacted Cybertron, and sent up the specifications so they could build a two-way travel system. Thus [[Shockwave (SG)|Shockwave]] joined them on Earth. Starscream and a number of the Decepticons (and Cliffjumper) attended [[R.J. Blackrock]]'s unveiling ceremony, though Starscream found the event's formality uncomfortable. The Autobots attacked the event, and when Shockwave was seriously injured protecting [[Sephie Beller]], Starscream blamed himself for not being fast enough to help. He was disappointed when Sephie subsequently had herself augmented with Cybertronian technology, and confined her to base. He took opportunity to do a thorough scan of her, which gave the medics some pointers on how to improve their repair technology and help Shockwave.

When Sephie went out to face the Autobots on her own, Starscream modified [[Fistfight (SG)|Fistfight]] to act as an exosuit for [[Rick Ottman]], and they went to try to help her. Instead, the Decepticons fell into an Autobot trap, and were overwhelmed by superior forces. The Autobots were attacked by Blackrock, using his [[Centurion (SG)|Centurion]] battle suit, but the Decepticons were surprised when Blackrock revealed that he regarded all the Cybertronians as potential technology goldmines. When Sephie appeared to sacrifice herself to carry the overloading Centurion away and save everyone present, Starscream gave a heartfelt eulogy. Fortunately, she still functioned. To Starscream's disappointment, Blackrock wriggled his way out of being turned over to the authorities. Back at base, Starscream offered Sephie a place on the Decepticon team, but she turned him down in favor of taking her own course. {{storylink|Transhuman}}

At the Decepticons' base on Cybertron, [[Reflector (SG)|Reflector]] reported to Starscream that he had spotted [[Computron (SG)|Computron]] [[Aquarius (SG)|chasing]] [[Breakaway (Classics)|several]] [[Landquake (Timelines)|unknown]] [[Topspin (Classics)|individuals]]. Starscream had Reflector alert Megatron and send out [[Abominus (SG)|Abominus]] to deal with Computron. Starscream then helped greet said individuals as they sought safety inside the base, and listened to them explain their situation to Megatron. {{storylink|Reunification: Part 4}}

When Megatron was killed by [[Cyclonus (SG)|Cyclonus]] during the meeting in question, Starscream cried out in anguish and lamented over Megatron's body, wondering why it couldn't have been himself that had been hit instead of his "king". {{storylink|Reunification: Part 5}} {{storylink|The Coming Storm: Part 1}}

Later, after the visitors were revealed as really being [[Nexus Prime]]—who then revived Megatron as Galvatron—Starscream was part of the group that saw Nexus Prime off on his next interdimensional journey. {{storylink|Reunification: Part 6}}

Starscream struggled for the first time to follow Megatron's orders now that their leader had become Galvatron. The change in Galvatron's behavior was enough to truly worry him. In particular, Starscream could not understand Galvatron's decision to forgive and pardon Cyclonus for his assassination. As his commanding officer and the wounded party, Starscream had no choice but to accept Galvatron's will, but he and the other Decepticons were hardly welcoming to Cyclonus on his return. They suspected the worst when Cyclonus took off without authorization with the shuttle ''[[Annex]]'', but he returned having saved some of their human friends from the [[Underbase]]. {{storylink|Coalescence}}

Starscream and Soundwave apparently made a bet about the importance of a distress signal that the Decepticons received from [[Paradron]]. When Soundwave traveled with [[Treadshot (SG)|Treadshot]]'s team to a [[Primax 207.0 Epsilon|strange parallel universe universe]] and saw that the dangerous [[Ultra Magnus (SG)|Ultra Magnus]] had indeed escaped prison, he remarked that he owed Starscream five credits. {{storylink|Invasion (issue)|Invasion}}

The Stellar Spanner was rendered inoperable after the inter-dimensional incursion of the positive Earth to the space around negative polarity Cybertron. To compensate, the positive polarity [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]] created a [[Mental Spanner|''Mental'' Spanner]] to transmit a Cybertronian's mind between two distant bodies. Starscream constructed a second body for Soundwave on negative Earth so that the Mental Spanner could return him to the ''Ark'' and its crew. {{storylink|Solar Requiem}}

Starscream was present at [[Decepticon City (SG)|Decepticon City]] on Earth when Galvatron's victory over Optimus Prime drove the Autobot invaders into retreat. {{storylink|Restoration}} After Prime's defeat, Starscream and Galvatron flew the ''[[Annex]]'' back to Cybertron, as Galvatron's connection to the Thirteen anticipated some new threat. He was right. Cybertron itself arose to become the Dark God called [[Primus/Shattered Glass|Primus]], driving the ''Annex'' off with his devastating breath. Miraculously, the positive-Earth came to life as well, transformed by [[Rarified Energon]] into a Light God called [[Gaea]], who defeated Primus and then transformed herself into a new technological world to serve as a replacement Cybertron. {{storylink|The Future Buried...}}

===''Lil Formers''===
Starscream compared himself to his positive-polarity counterpart, and wondered whether he would end up somehow betraying [[Optimus Prime (SG)|Optimus Prime]] or if he would just remain the most loyal out of all Decepticons. {{storylink|Lil Formers}}

===''SD SG''===
Starscream convinced [[Skywarp (SG)|Skywarp]] to accompany him on an "information retreat" to [[Earth]], only to pack insufficient fuel cells for the trip. Their power ran out as Skywarp complained to Starscream over his lack of foresight, but a solution presented itself readily: [[Thundercracker (SG)|Thundercracker]] was called into the room, which he illuminated with his [[neon|garish color scheme]]. {{storylink|SD SG issue 4|SD SG #4}}

===''Timelines''===
[[File:EpilogueTwo SoundwaveMegatronStarscream.jpg|right|thumb|250px]]
{{charfictionstub}}
{{storylink|Epilogue Two}}
{{--}}

===IDW ''Shattered Glass'' comic===
[[File:ShatteredGlass3-JetfireStarscream.jpg|thumb|left|300px]]

Before the war, Starscream was a scientist and a close friend of [[Jetfire (SG)|Jetfire]]. As part of their research, the pair discovered and partially excavated [[Metroplex (SG)|Metroplex]], an ancient [[Titan (group)|Titan]] buried near the city of [[Iacon (polity)|Iacon]]. {{storylink|Shattered Glass issue 3|Shattered Glass #3}} Thanks to his unique [[spark]], Starscream would be able to handle the power surge that came with directly linking with a Titan, and the pair hoped that they could find a way to reactivate and communicate with their subject in the hopes of better understanding Cybertron's history. However, mundane academic concerns got in the way of their lofty ideals, and to secure funding for their project the pair decided to meet with the Cybertronian [[Senate]] in the hopes of convincing one or more senators to support their research. {{storylink|Shattered Glass issue 3|Shattered Glass #3}} In between fundraising meetings, the pair watched one of [[Megatron (SG)|Megatron]]'s many civil rights protests outside the Senate building; although the Decepticon leader came to blows with Senate security officer [[Prowl (SG)|Prowl]], Starscream was inspired by the sight of a humble miner taking on the establishment and eventually developed sympathies for the nascent Decepticon movement. {{storylink|Shattered Glass issue 2|Shattered Glass #2}}

As it turned out, their next meeting was with senator [[Optimus Prime (SG)|Orion Pax]]—ambitious, power-hungry, and with designs of his own, he took an immediate interest in the idea of reactivating a Titan and promised them all the funding they'd ever need if they got him results and kept their research a secret. While Jetfire jumped on the offer, Starscream, who'd heard rumours of encroaching senatorial corruption, turned down the offer and walked out. Although the pair managed to scrape together the resources needed to continue their work, Jetfire continued to worry that they'd run out of money before they made any significant headway with their project, and continued floating the idea of taking Orion up on his offer. Although Starscream, correctly fearing that Orion was a tyrant in the making, made Jetfire promise that he wouldn't talk about Orion anymore, Jetfire went behind Starscream's back to meet with Orion and his followers in secret—unaware that a suspicious Starscream had trailed him to the meeting.

[[File:ShatteredGlass3-whyyou.jpg|thumb|right|300px]]

When [[Goldbug (SG)|Bumblebee]] found Starscream and dragged him before Orion, Jetfire tried to convince the Autobots that Starscream was not a Decepticon—however, a furious Starscream told Jetfire that he'd betrayed his ideals and that he would never join the Autobots. Before Orion or his followers could deal with him, however, Starscream transformed and fled back to their dig site; knowing that the Autobots would find a way to compromise and weaponize their peaceful research, Starscream destroyed all of the necessary scientific equipment, then tried to bind the remaining data to his own spark, to permanently put it beyond Optimus's reach. However, when Jetfire and the other Autobots arrived, Starscream was forced to sever the link, leaving the data corrupted on both ends. {{storylink|Shattered Glass issue 3|Shattered Glass #3}}

With nowhere else to go, Starscream fell in with Megatron and the other Decepticons as the war against the evil Autobots began. {{storylink|Shattered Glass issue 5|Shattered Glass #5}} In time, Starscream became Megatron's closest lieutenant and developed a reputation as the spokesman for the Decepticon movement, {{storylink|Shattered Glass issue 1|Shattered Glass #1}} even writing some of Megatron's pre-battle speeches for him. {{storylink|Shattered Glass issue 2|Shattered Glass #2}} In private, Megatron and Starscream discussed the possibility of using Starscream's spark as an indestructible safe, although the idea did not come to fruition before the end of the war. Although circumstances had driven them apart, Starscream never stopped believing that there was a kernel of goodness somewhere in Jetfire. Whenever they encountered each other on the battlefield, Starscream would try and reach out to his former friend. {{storylink|Shattered Glass issue 5|Shattered Glass #5}}

[[File:ShatteredGlass2-StarscreamEvacuation.jpg|thumb|left|300px]]

Starscream was one of the many Decepticons who followed Megatron to the planet [[Earth]] to keep its supplies of [[Rarified Energon]] out of Autobot hands. However, as the conflict between the two factions intensified, their battles grew increasingly destructive. Finally, on the cusp of an unwinnable battle in [[Hollywood]], Megatron made the drastic decision to martyr himself for his cause, so that the Decepticon movement could survive: before he threw himself into one-on-one combat with Optimus Prime, he ordered Starscream to gather up every Decepticon left and flee the planet while he bought time for them to escape. Despite his urge to help out his commander, Starscream followed his orders to the letter, and, along with his fellow [[Seeker (body-type)|Seeker]]s [[Thundercracker (SG)|Thundercracker]] and [[Skywarp (SG)|Skywarp]], coordinated the Decepticon evacuation from Earth, while the triumphant Autobots defeated Megatron and pillaged the planet to their heart's content. {{storylink|Shattered Glass issue 2|Shattered Glass #2}}

As the Autobots won the war and consolidated their power over Cybertron, Starscream went into hiding and spent at least a megacycle in self-imposed isolation, combing through his corrupted databanks in an attempt to make himself whole again. {{storylink|Shattered Glass issue 3|Shattered Glass #3}} After Megatron had returned to Cybertron, he gave the Seekers the coordinates to his hideout in the [[Rust Sea]] should they ever need to contact him. {{storylink|Shattered Glass issue 2|Shattered Glass #2}} Finally, Starscream returned to Metroplex, intent on recovering the part of himself he'd abandoned all those years ago, and initiated the mental merge again—this time, however, Starscream was able to successfully complete the procedure, and discovered how to awaken and control the still-dormant Titan. {{storylink|Shattered Glass issue 3|Shattered Glass #3}} Unfortunately, however, his activity caught the attention of the Autobot [[Goldbug (SG)|Goldbug]], who deduced what he was up to. Goldbug put a bounty on his head and promised to handsomely reward the first Autobot [[bodyscrapper]] who successfully brought him in alive. {{storylink|Shattered Glass issue 1|Shattered Glass #1}} {{storylink|Shattered Glass issue 4|Shattered Glass #4}}

[[File:ShatteredGlass1-StarscreamBlurraltmode.jpg|thumb|right|300px]]

While he waited to contact Megatron, Starscream lay low in the ruins beyond [[Kaon (polity)|Gold City]], Starscream came under attack from the bodyscrappers [[Chromedome (SG)|Chromedome]] and [[Hardhead (SG)|Hardhead]], who attempted to bring him in... only for [[Blurr (SG)|Blurr]], another Autobot bodyscrapper, to rescue him. Blurr offered to escort him deeper into the lawless [[Static Zone]], in reality a means of stalling for time until he could summon Goldbug, but Starscream proved immediately skeptical of this impromptu teamup. Blurr tried to play on his sympathy by lying that he'd been pressured into joining the Autobots, and Starscream played along until they reached the deadly [[Chrome Ridge]]. In the ensuing battle, the Decepticon flier turned Blurr's infamous speed against him by tricking the speedster into running straight into a deadly flow of molten metal. To ensure that Blurr was dead, Starscream stood by his melted corpse until morning, at which point he flew away; the adventure had brought him one step closer to finding Megatron. {{storylink|Shattered Glass issue 1|Shattered Glass #1}} An injured Starscream limped to Megatron's hideout in the [[Rust Sea]], and forced the Decepticon commander to bring him inside his bunker to repair him. Although Megatron, feeling himself a failure, had long since lost the will to go on as leader of the Decepticons, Starscream reminded him of his past glories and inspired him to retake command, in the hopes that they could use a Titan to fight back against the triumphant Autobots. {{storylink|Shattered Glass issue 2|Shattered Glass #2}}

[[File:ShatteredGlass3-Starscreamsword.jpg|thumb|left|300px|An elegant weapon for a more civilized age.]]

Their first stop would be Gold City; travelling incognito, Megatron and Starscream met up with [[Soundwave (SG)|Soundwave]], who agreed to put out the call to every remaining Decepticon. However, when the pair stopped off at a nearby bar to discuss their next steps, [[Blaster (SG)|Blaster]] and his minions through their disguise and attacked them. As more and more arriving Autobots threatened to overwhelm them Megatron ordered Starscream to get to safety while he held them off. Starscream did so., cursing himself for abandoning his leader once more... until Jetfire shot him unconscious and delivered him to Goldbug. {{storylink|Shattered Glass issue 3|Shattered Glass #3}} Goldbug put Jetfire in charge of the interrogation, but although Jetfire implored him to surrender the knowledge willingly and escape death, Starscream refused to break, even after Goldbug announced that he'd murdered Starscream's would-be rescuer Skywarp and showed him his head as proof. Furious by Jetfire's inability to get results, Goldbug snapped and pointed his blaster at Starscream, ready to kill him even if it meant losing the information he'd sought. {{storylink|Shattered Glass issue 4|Shattered Glass #4}}

[[File:ShatteredGlass5-Starscreamdies.jpg|thumb|right|200px|I know that I usually have an indestructible spark, but this wasn’t what I had in mi-[[Furmanism|SHEEAAAGH!!!]]]]

Despite Jetfire's protests, Goldbug released Starscream from his shackles and prepared to kill him—but when an explosion from outside heralded the arrival of Megatron's Decepticon army, Jetfire turned on his former leader and punched him out. However, as he helped Starscream to his feet, Goldbug was able to regain his bearings quicker than Jetfire had anticipated, reach for his gun, and shoot Starscream in the back, opening a gaping wound in his torso. Wounded but still alive, Starscream reassured Jetfire that the shot had missed his spark—at which point Goldbug ripped Starscream's pulsing spark from his body and killed him.

Although Megatron and his followers successfully liberated Gold City, Goldbug escaped in the chaos and successfully used the information encoded on Starscream's spark to reactivate Metroplex. In a later conversation with his spy [[Wheeljack (SG)|Slicer]], [[Ultra Magnus (SG)|Ultra Magnus]] told him that Optimus Prime and Prowl had plans of their own regarding the Titan, and Goldbug's fall from grace, combined with his possession of Starscream's spark, had painted a target on his back. {{storylink|Shattered Glass issue 5|Shattered Glass #5}} Goldbug eventually plugged Starscream's spark into Metroplex's systems but found that the giant proved temperamental, activating and deactivating without Goldbug's input. {{storylink|Shattered Glass II issue 3|Shattered Glass II #3}}

{{--}}

==Games==
===''Transformers: Forged to Fight''===
[[File:ForgedtoFight Starscream SG.png|thumb]]
{{storylink|Shattered Bridges}}
{{-}}

==Toys==
===''Timelines''===
[[File:ShatteredGlasstoy-Starscream.jpg|right|300px|thumb|[[Starscream (G1)|He]] and [[Jetfire (G1)|his best friend]] are [[Fire in the Sky|so close]], they even dress alike!]]
*'''Shattered Glass''' (BotCon box set, [[2008]])
**''Accessories'': Launcher, missile, [[Earth]]-style [[Cyber Key]]

: Part of [[BotCon 2008]]'s [[exclusive]] box set of five figures, ''[[Transformers Timelines (toyline)|Timelines]]'' Starscream is a [[redeco]] of ''[[Transformers: Cybertron (toyline)|Cybertron]]'' Voyager Class [[Starscream (Armada)/toys#Cybertron|Starscream]] in a color scheme that [[homage]]s the original [[Jetfire (G1)|Jetfire]]. He transforms into a Cybertronian starfighter. In both modes, plugging a Cyber Key (his is a red-plastic [[Earth]]-style key with a white border and black symbol) into his back pops out a blade-weapon from each of his wings/arms. He also has a spring-loaded missile launcher which can be hand-held, or mounted on the underside of his vehicle mode.

: Starscream was only available as part of a set of six toys, along with [[Optimus Prime (SG)#Toys|Optimus Prime]], [[Grimlock (SG)#Toys|Grimlock]], [[Goldbug (SG)#Toys|Goldbug]], [[Jazz (SG)#Toys|Autobot Jazz]], and [[Razorclaw (SG)#Toys|Razorclaw]].

: This mold was also used to make ''[[Transformers: Universe (2008 toyline)|Universe]]'' [[Dirge (G1)#Universe (2008)|Dirge]].

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2008/Decepticon/BCStarscream/starscream.htm More information on "Shattered Glass" Starscream at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===''Combiner Wars''===
[[File:TFSS-5.0-Shattered Glass Starscream.jpg|right|200px|thumb]]
*'''Shattered Glass Starscream''' (TFSS 5.0, [[2017]])
**''Accessories'': Weapon/combiner extremity, [[Atari-Scream]] rifle

:Released as a bonus figure for the [[Transformers Figure Subscription Service|Figure Subscription Service]] 5.0, ''[[Combiner Wars (toyline)|Combiner Wars]]'' "Shattered Glass Starscream" is a redeco of [[Starscream (G1)/toys#Unite Warriors|Ghost Starscream]] from the ''[[Transformers Unite Warriors|Unite Warriors]]'' [[Grand Galvatron#Unite Warriors 2|Grand Galvatron]] set, which is a retool of ''Combiner Wars'' Deluxe Class [[Skydive (G1 Aerialbot)#Generations|Skydive]]. He can combine to form the leg or arm of any ''Combiner Wars''-style Combiner or one of [[Godbomber#Legends|''Legends'' Godbomber]]'s legs, although the amusingly non-committal "possible suggestion" given is to make him part of [[Modulus#Toys|Modulus]].

:Starscream was packaged along with [[Toxitron (G1)#Generations|Wrecker Toxitron]] and [[Punch (G1)#Generations|Wrecker Counterpunch]].
{{CWSkydiveMold}}
{{-}}

===''Shattered Glass Collection''===
[[File:TF-Shattered-Glass-Collection-Starscream.jpg|thumb|300px|The (not-so) white knight.]]
*'''Starscream''' (Voyager Class, [[2021]])
**''Accessories:'' 2 rifles, 2 [[Energon]] swords
{{toydesigner|[[Lenny Panzica]] (Hasbro)}}

:Released as part of the ''[[Transformers: Generations (toyline)#Shattered Glass Collection|Shattered Glass Collection]]'' subline, Starscream is a redeco of ''[[War for Cybertron: Siege|Siege]]'' Starscream, transforming into a Cybertronian tetrajet. In addition to the blasters included with the original mold, he includes two energy swords that can combine together into a single blade. He features numerous 5mm ports for compatibility with the [[C.O.M.B.A.T. System]].

:Unfortunately, Starscream's unpaintable plastic is notorious for [[Unpaintable plastic#Photodegradation|yellowing]] extremely easily.

:Starscream also includes the [[Shattered Glass issue 3|third issue]] of [[IDW Publishing]]'s ''[[Transformers: Shattered Glass (IDW)|Shattered Glass]]'' comic, with an exclusive cover featuring spot UV.

{{WFCSiegeStarscreamMold}}
{{-}}

==Merchandise==
===''Magic: The Gathering''===
[[File:MTG-SG-Starscream.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|]]
*'''Starscream, Power Hungry / Starscream, Seeker Leader ''' (2022)
**''ID number:'' '''020'''
**''Set code:'' '''BOT'''
**''Color identity:'' '''Black'''
**''Casting cost:'' '''{3}{B}''' (front), '''{2}{B}''' (back)
**''Artist:'' [[Sara Pitre-Durocher]]
:"Starscream, Power Hungry" is part of the 2022 ''[[Magic: The Gathering]]'' ''[[wikia:mtg:Universes Beyond|Universes Beyond]]'' ''[[wikia:mtg:Transformers|Transformers]]'' card set, found in Collector Booster packs of ''Magic''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> ''[[wikia:mtg:The Brothers' War|The Brothers' War]]'' set. It can be reversed to become "Starscream, Seeker Leader", representing Starscream in vehicle mode.
:A variant of this card was available in both Set Booster and Collector Booster packs, depicting [[Starscream (G1)/merchandise#Magic: The Gathering|"Generation 1" Starscream]].

{{--}}

==Notes==
*Before Starscream was decided as the final [[Transformers Figure Subscription Service#Series 5.0 (2017)|Transformers Figure Subscription Service]] figure, [[Fun Publications]] nearly chose [[Sunstorm (G1)|Sunstorm]].<ref>[https://twitter.com/JesseWittenrich/status/1265690290993709057 Tweet by @JesseWittenrich, 27 May 2020]</ref> [[Randy Para]] drafted the profile for Sunstorm, later recycling fragmentary elements for SG Starscream.<ref>[https://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/137564-petes-robot-convention-and-twerk-academy/page-41#entry3545714 Post by Powered Convoy on The Allspark Forums, 2 July 2017]</ref>
*In ''Forged to Fight'', Starscream appears as a minor recoloring of his Generation 1 counterpart's CG model, based upon the ''[[Combiner Wars (toyline)|Combiner Wars]]'' Leader Class [[Starscream (G1)/toys#Combiner Wars|Starscream toy]].
*In [[IDW Publishing]]'s comic series, Starscream mainly appears as his ''Siege''-based toy on Cybertron but in the Earth sequences appears as a "virtual redeco" of the ''[[War for Cybertron: Earthrise|Earthrise]]'' Voyager Class [[Starscream (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Earthrise|Starscream toy]].

==References==
{{reflist}}

==See also==
{{OtherVersions
|charname=''Shattered Glass'' Starscream
|disambig=Starscream (disambiguation)
|body=
*[[Starscream (SG Animated)|Starscream]], the heroic counterpart to [[Starscream (Animated)|''Animated'' Starscream]].}}

[[Category:BotCon exclusives]]
[[Category:Combiner Wars Decepticons]]
[[Category:Combiners]]
[[Category:Convention-original characters]]
[[Category:Hall of Fame characters]]
[[Category:Scientists]]
[[Category:Shattered Glass Decepticons]]
[[Category:Timelines characters]]

Cratermaker

2022-12-14T02:17:15Z

Spectre:

{{factions|decepticon}}
:''Cratermaker is a [[Decepticon]] [[Micromaster]] from the [[War for Cybertron: Siege|Siege]] portion of the [[Generation 1 continuity family|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''
[[File:Cratermaker EarthWars.jpg|upright=2.0|thumb]]

An extreme devotee of siege mentality, [[Cybertronian military insignia|Ground Force Weapons Raider]] '''Cratermaker''' digs new defense facilities wherever he goes.<ref>''Earth Wars'' Cratermaker bio</ref>

==Games==
===''Transformers: Earth Wars''===
{{charstubgame|{{storylink|Transformers: Earth Wars}}}}
*'''Ability:''' Shoots 5 rockets, each dealing a percentage of your DPS value.
[http://wiki.transformersearthwars.com/character:cratermaker Cratermaker at Transformers: Earth Wars Wiki]

==Toys==
===''War for Cybertron: Siege''===
[[File:Siege-Micromaster-Cratermaker.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb]]
*'''Autobots vs. Decepticons''' (Micromaster multi-pack, 2019)
**''ID number'': '''WFC-S62'''

: Cratermaker is a [[retool]] of ''[[War for Cybertron: Siege|Siege]]'' [[Flak (G1)#Generations|Flak]], with a new head sculpt based on [[Bombshock (G1)|Bombshock]] and colors in [[homage]] to the original Flak toy's Japanese release [[Powerbomb]].. He transforms into a self-propelled semi-Cybertronic missile system. As part of the [[C.O.M.B.A.T. System]], he forms the barrel of the "Gravatronic Rubblemaker Cannon" when combined with his pack-in partner [[Fireline]] (or any other iteration of that mold).

: He was only available as part of a [[Target]] [[exclusive]] ten-pack of Micromasters, which includes the Autobots [[Groundshaker (G1)#Generations|Ground Shaker]], [[Ironworks (Micromaster)#Generations|Irontread]], [[Overair (Micromaster)#Generations|Overair]], [[Ricon#Toys|Ricon]], [[Road Police#Generations|Road-Police]], and [[Wheel Blaze#Generations|Wheel Blaze]], and the Decepticons Fireline, [[Nightflight (G1)#Generations|Nightflight]], and [[Skyhopper#Generations|Slyhopper]].
{{--}}

==Notes==
* The ''[[Transformers: Zone (franchise)|Zone]]'' sub-franchise from which Powerbomb hails typically recast [[Hasbro]]'s Decepticon Micromaster toys as Autobots, sometimes giving them new names in the process; Cratermaker's status as a renamed Decepticon version of the Autobot Powerbomb is perhaps an inverted homage to this practice.
* Stock photos on Target's website showed Cratermaker as a straightforward [[redeco]] of Flak, lacking the new head sculpt featured on both the back of the box and the final toy.

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Cratermaker''' (クレーターメーカー ''Kurētāmēkā'')

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Generation 1 Decepticons]]
[[Category:Micromasters]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Siege Decepticons]]

Unicron/toys

2022-04-19T01:00:36Z

Spectre: Removing a note that Armada Unicron was available in a horizontal packaging variant — Pretty sure this is misunderstanding the fact that the back of Unicron's packaging was "sideways" which allowed stores to stock him horizontally.

{{suite}}

'''[[Unicron]]''' has managed to amass a [[star system]] of toys and merchandise, and then some.

==Toys==
===''The Transformers''===
{{anchor|G1Takara}}
[[File:G1toy-UnicronprotoTakara.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67|He's green with evil!]]
*'''Unicron''' ([[TakaraTomy|Takara]])

:An unproduced toy for Unicron was to have been released in [[The Transformers (franchise)|Generation 1]]. The first [[prototype]] of the toy was developed by Takara and was a green and yellow robot that was to come with a base that set up a "planetary system" with Unicron and a moon culled from movie preproduction materials that turned into a laser gun. When transformed to robot mode, Unicron would have a light and sound gimmick that would activate when shot by an infra-red ray from the gun. So far, this version of the toy has been shown only through Takara print materials.

:The placement of yellow is identical to the early animation [[character model]] of Unicron which labels him "[[:File:Model-TheEntity.jpg|The Entity]]". Like that early animation model, the planetary ring is located in front of his "maw" as a result of the positioning of the toy's stand. Additionally, he appears to sport a Decepticon [[rubsign]]. Assuming the rubsign is the same size as every other one, this version of Unicron is considerably smaller than the later prototype.

:At a company presentation, Takara designer [[Kōjin Ōno]] was informed that the Unicron toy was to be made at a larger size, presumably in order to serve as a more appropriate representation of the character's fictional scale. This resulted in the production of a subsequent prototype toy (see below).<ref>[https://news.tfw2005.com/2011/11/07/koujin-oono-interview-on-generation-1-unicron-173702 Koujin Oono (sic) Interview on Generation 1 Unicron]</ref>
{{canceledtoy}}

{{anchor|Generation 1}}
[[File:G1toy-UnicronprotoHasbro.jpg|upright=1.67|thumb|Look out! The CBS logo is on a murderous rampage!]]
*'''Unicron''' ([[Hasbro]]/Takara)

:A larger version of the Unicron prototype design was developed by Takara in closer collaboration with Hasbro and was a blue and yellow robot, possessing different [[paint operation]]s and molding to the earlier prototype, about one foot tall and was able to transform into a planet. In comparison to the earlier version, the color scheme of this later prototype is closer to the animation model's finalized colors. Furthermore, the planetary ring's location was rotated 90 degrees, similarly matching later revisions to Unicron's planet mode animation design which moved the ring away from the maw.

[[File:ProtoCron.jpg|left|thumb|For a time I considered sparing your wretched little botanical garden]]
:Omitted from the original prototype was the moon/laser gun, but the new larger design was to have come with a voice chip and a "planet microphone" to allow owners to speak through the toy. Sound samples of lines read by [[Orson Welles]] were also to be used in the toy. It also would have had a gun that became a stand for the planet mode and a blue "shield" that unfolded and covered the yellow part of his chest in planet mode. It bears an uncanny physical resemblance to Mr. Welles.

[[File:UnicronPatentShieldGun.jpg|upright=1.67|thumb|Peekaboo! I eat you!]]
:This figure had a public "debut" of sorts at [[BotCon 1996]], where it was mistransformed, but later convention appearances would feature it accurately transformed.

:After not being shown for several years, the prototype resurfaced in the summer of 2020 on display (and once again mistransformed) at the Heritage Museums & Gardens in Sandwich, Massachusetts as part of their "Let's Play! New England Toy Stories" exhibit featuring the history of New England toy manufacturers.<ref>https://www.capenews.net/arts_and_entertainment/let-s-play-will-celebrate-toys-and-local-toy-manufacturers/article_4ac47415-e615-5d1e-a39c-d270b7c89db2.html Article describing the exhibit, in which an assistant curator mentions "Hasbro prototype from the 1990's," presumably in reference to Unicron</ref>

:According to the fansite Transformers on the Shelf (no longer online), Unicron's toy was scrapped because of cost concerns, flimsy arms, and a faulty voice chip.

:Though the prototype had the tallest robot mode at the time of its planned release, it was ultimately shorter than [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fortress Maximus]].
{{canceledtoy}}
{{-}}

===''Beast Wars''===
[[File:BWII toy - Galvatron.jpg|right|upright=2.2|thumb]]
*'''Galvatron''' ([[May 21]], [[1998]])
**''ID number:'' '''D-16'''
**''Accessories:'' 2 "Galva Axe" missiles, "Scissor Hand" claw/wing-section

{{note|Beast Wars II [[Galvatron (BW)|Galvatron]] was [[repurposing|repurposed]] as Unicron's "energy" form in the ''[[Super Lifeform Transformers: Beast Wars Neo (cartoon)|Beast Wars Neo]]'' cartoon.}}

:Released in the fourth wave of ''Beast Wars II'' products in the [[Japan]]ese ''[[Transformers: Beast Wars (Japanese toyline)#BWII|Beast Wars]]'' toyline, Galvatron is an Ultra-sized [[Triple Changer]], transforming from robot to mechanical [[dragon]] to drill tank. As the only totally unique Predacon mold created for the ''Beast Wars II'' toyline, Galvatron is also the only figure from the series with both vehicle and animal forms (well, at the same time). In drill tank mode, a black plunger protruding from the top of his cockpit can be pressed, spinning his drill as part of his "Drill Destroyer" attack. The tread-sections also feature his non-firing "Galvatling Cannons", which end up in his knees in both dragon and [[robot mode]]. Also in this mode, triggers on either side of his tail fire his "Galva Axes" as spring-loaded missiles. In dragon mode, a slider on his back allows for his wings to move in a flapping action. His wings can also split open into their "Scissor Hand" claw-pincer configurations, much like they do in the cartoon.

:In robot mode, Galvatron's Galva Axes can be held in his hands as melee weapons or fired from their launchers that are now located on his forearms. His Scissor Hand weapon can also be removed in this mode and used as a hand-held weapon. Galvatron's chest also houses has a yellow marble to represent his "[[Galva-Matrix]]".

: Galvatron is a sufferer of [[Gold Plastic Syndrome]], as the panels on the gold dragon feet can break off.

: [[Sonokong]] also released this figure in their ''Beast-War'' toyline as "Garba Tron" (also known as "Galvatron"). Aside from the difference in packaging, the [[South Korea|Korea]]n release of the figure is identical to the [[TakaraTomy|Takara]] releases. In place of the bio cards of the Takara releases, Garba Tron comes with two "{{w|Rock paper scissors|Jan-ken-pon}}" cards. One has an image [[:File:D-16 Garba Tron Sonokong.jpeg|reflecting the one on the box]], with scissors and the number one die roll, and the other with rock and the number five die roll, with a super computer or building in the background.

: ''Beast-War'' Galba Tron was later reissued in the Korean ''[[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2001 toyline)#Car Bot|Car Bot]]'' toyline, reassigned as a [[Predacon (BW)#2001 Robots in Disguise continuity family|Destronger]] and renamed [[Megatron (RID)#Gigatron Z|Gigatron Z]].

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/1998/Destron/Galvatron/galvatron.htm More information on Galvatron at TFU.info]''

{{anchor|BWN}}
[[File:BWNeo-Unicron.jpg|upright=1.67|thumb|A robot with a hemisphere on his back.]]
*'''Unicron''' (Takara)

:Takara tried again to produce a Unicron toy during ''[[Super Lifeform Transformers: Beast Wars Neo (franchise)|Beast Wars Neo]]'' (as the character figured prominently to the endings of both the cartoon and comic), only going as far as the resin prototype stage before canceling it. It was said to be around the size of [[Optimus Primal (BW)/toys#OptimalOptimus|"Optimal Optimus"]] and had several gimmicks, such as an opening robot mouth when the horns were squeezed, and a claw and a drill that were stored in the planet "shell" in robot mode. The toy would also have had planetary ring segments, not shown in the photo at right; unlike most representations of Unicron, these ring segments ran along his equator, and were only partial so his planetary mouth was not obstructed. One hard copy was shown at the [[Tokyo Toy Show]]. Fans attempted to lobby for an unassembled, unpainted, and likely one-color "garage kit" version of the toy, but this never came to be... probably because the cost per unit would have been several hundred dollars.

:Interestingly enough, neither the cartoon nor comic version of ''Neo'' Unicron looked like the toy. This toy was later used to represent [[Dark Nova]]'s "Unicron Neo" form in the [[Transformers Legends (comic)|''Legends'' comic]].
{{canceledtoy}}
{{--}}

===''Armada''===
[[File:Unicrontoyarmada.jpg|upright=2.2|thumb|And the fandom rejoiced (and complained).]]
*'''Unicron with Mini-Con Dead End''' (Supreme Class, [[2003]])
**''Takara/Sonokong ID number:'' '''MX-00'''
**''Accessories'': 6 missiles, giant chest-missile, [[Dead End (Armada)#Armada|Dead End]]

:Unicron from the [[Transformers: Armada (toyline)|''Armada'' toyline]] is an orange and transparent purple Supreme-size toy that transforms into a planet. It features many [[Mini-Con]] [[Powerlinx]] plugs on the planet's rings, and "chomping" jaws activated by moving the mandibles. The packed-in Mini-Con Dead End in moon-mode plugs into a specially shaped socket on Unicron's planet form, just above his gaping maw. Powerlinx plugs on his sides activate the triple spring-loaded missile launchers, which end up on his robot mode legs. In robot mode, he has hidden compartments for Mini-Cons in his robot-mode legs and abdomen. One Powerlinx plug on the back of the robot mode activates blinking eye lights and a cannon that bursts from the chest and shoots a missile. A button on the top of the head also activates the blinking eye lights. Pushing his right hand back slightly into the cuff causes it to light up.

:In total, the toy can hold up to 27 Mini-Cons in planet mode and 30 in robot mode—35 if you count the two cavities in his forearms, Dead End's indent on the planet shells and if a Mini-Con is stored in the compartment on each leg. 24 of the Powerlinx points are situated on his wings/planet ring.

:That's a lot of Mini-Cons!

:Attaching the full capacity of Mini-Cons can easily add a whole pound to Unicron's weight (varying slightly by the choice of Mini-Cons used of course). Since Unicron alone is one of the heaviest Transformers figures ever made, one can imagine how bulky he gets.

:This toy is notable for being the first "modern" Transformers release in the main line at the $50-price point. Due to his success, other releases like ''Energon'' [[Omega Supreme (Energon)|Omega Supreme]] came into being. This toy was featured in ToyFare Magazine, being awarded “Toy of the Year” 2003 in "Best of the Best 2003".<ref>http://www.unicron.us/tf2003/toypix/unicron.htm</ref>

:Unicron is something of a [[shellformer]], with the majority of his planet mode being composed of two large translucent purple halves which swing onto his back in robot mode. These parts often get removed for the robot mode, since they pop off the joint fairly easily, but it does lead to hemisphereless Unicrons being quite common on the aftermarket.

:The Takara release of Unicron uses a lighter orange, slightly more transparent plastic, and different paint applications than the Hasbro version, for instance, the silver paint on its face looks like a "Moustache."

:The toy had a minor running change where a slot and tab were added to the shoulder and wing column, respectively, to keep the rings more firmly in place in planet mode. Early publicity photos and some catalog shots also show that the two nubs on either outside edge of the shoulders were originally full-fledged spikes, dulled down for safety.

:This mold was used to make the [[Unicron of Light|Mini-Con doppelganger of Unicron]].

::*[http://www.tfu.info/2003/Unicron/Unicron/unicron.htm ''More information on ''Armada'' Unicron at TFU.info'']
{{ArmadaUnicronMold}}
{{--}}

===''Energon''===
[[File:Energon Unicron toy.jpg|upright=2.2|thumb|This would be worth more to somebody outside of Japan if it was bought inside Japan.]]
*'''Unicron''' (Supreme Class, [[2004]])
**''Takara ID number'': '''MX-00'''
**''Accessories'': 6 missiles, giant chest-missile, [[Dead End (Armada)#Energon|Dead End]]

:Unicron's ''Armada'' toy was [[redeco]]ed for the [[Transformers: Energon (toyline)|''Energon'' toyline]], sporting black and transparent orange, with "Energon damage" patterns, representing his shattered and damaged form. All of the gimmicks from the previous version are intact in this one. The color scheme itself is an homage to a [http://www.toyarchive.com/Transformers/Displays/JapanMovieUnicronInflat1.html Japanese-only inflatable store display]. That's right, $50 to look like a 20-year-old balloon from the other side of the world.

:Early stock photography of the toy depicts Unicron with a different color scheme that features a gray face and a pink translucent chest instead of the silver face and a reddish-orange translucent chest of the actual toy.

:Early shipments of Unicron in ''Energon'' packaging shipped with either the orange ''Armada'' Unicron or the black ''Energon'' Unicron inside, in seemingly equal amounts for a short while. Eventually, the orange version was phased out and black was the only shipping version.

: The Takara ''Super Link'' release of Unicron—dubbed '''Unicron Black Version''' (ユニクロンブラックバージョン ''Yunikuron Burakku Bājon'')—was packaged inside the ''Legends of the Microns'' Unicron box, with a "20th Anniversary" sticker applied to the back and the front of the box. The figure was released in limited numbers (the amount of which is currently unknown), and was presumably exclusive to a store (which is also currently unknown).

::*[http://www.tfu.info/2004/Unicron/Unicron/unicron.htm ''More information on ''Energon'' Unicron at TFU.info'']
{{ArmadaUnicronMold}}

{{-}}{{anchor|McDonalds}}
[[File:Energontoy-McUnicron.jpg|upright=1.67|thumb|Unicron will make an unhappy meal of you.]]
*'''Unicron''' (Fast Food Premium, 2004-2006)
**''Accessories:'' Energon cube

:Available in one of two different European-market McDonald's Happy Meal promotions, this Unicron toy is based on ''Energon'' Unicron, being primarily black. It is very small, and the transformation consists of simply opening the planet mode to reveal the robot.

:When his Energon cube is clicked into position, the cube's power switch set to "on", and the toy's button depressed, his body lights up. In 2006, this figure was made available in Brazil without the Energon cube.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2004/Unicron/McUnicron/unicron.htm More information on McDonald's Unicron at TFU.info]''
{{--}}

===''Cybertron''===
[[File:Cyb-toy UnicronDlx.jpg|upright=1.67|thumb|ZERG RUSH KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE]]
*'''Unicron''' (Deluxe Class, [[2006]])
**''Accessories'': Missile, 4 spines (2 long, 2 short), [[Planet X (Cybertron)|Planet X]] Cyber Key
**''Cyber Key Code'': '''dgt3'''

: Part of the eighth wave of [[Transformers: Cybertron (toyline)|''Cybertron'']] Deluxe Class toys, Unicron transforms into a futuristic, crab-like/insectoid tank. In robot mode, he sports a battle-damaged appearance, with his head featuring a skull-like design mimicking the Unicron head that comes with Cybertron Primus (see below). In both modes he features a large spring-loaded missile launcher, plus plugging a [[Cyber Key]] into his back end opens up a port on his front (which bears a striking similarity to his planet form's maw) that reveals a (non-firing) triple-barreled cannon. His side-spines in tank mode can be removed to become hand-weapons in robot mode.

: This toy was the first and only Unicron toy with the trademark Dracula-style "collar" from the original animation model, up until [[#HasLab|the toy based directly on said animation model]] created roughly fifteen years later. He is also the first Unicron toy to be placed with the Decepticon faction for the purposes of marketing.

: Due to the use of translucent plastic for his radar dish/head mount, aging samples run the risk of this piece breaking off at the joint due to plastic tolerance issues. Some samples also have difficulty holding the spike weapons properly due to the short pegs and clearance issues with his wrists.

::*[http://www.tfu.info/2006/Unicron/Unicron/unicron.htm ''More information on ''Cybertron'' Unicron at TFU.info'']

{{-}}{{anchor|PrimusUnicronHead}}
[[File:Unicronhead.jpg|upright=1.1|thumb|That worked a lot better for Fort Max.]]
*'''Cybertron Primus''' (Supreme Class, 2006)

:''Cybertron'' Supreme Class [[Primus#Cybertron|Cybertron Primus]] comes with Unicron's head. The head is based on ''Armada'' Unicron's, with half of the face stripped away to reveal a robotic "skull". To provide the impression of locomotion, tentacles were added to the base of the head. His face bears a greater resemblance to his on-screen appearance in ''Armada'' than the ''Armada'' toy itself, with no facial hair, a more "wrinkled" look, and thinner, rounder eyes. Meanwhile, his color scheme matches the ''Cybertron'' toy, with dark gray horns and a purple crest on his brow.

: The packaging for this variation of Primus was specifically changed with a call-out for the Unicron head. This was originally supposed to be the first version of the Primus toy shipped, being part of the second wave of ''Cybertron'' Supreme Class toys, but both versions ended up shipping simultaneously, leading to some hunting to get the packed-in "Uni-skull".

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2006/Primus/Primus/primus.htm More information on Unicron's head (with Primus) at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===''Universe'' (2008)===
[[File:Transformers-Universe-(2008)-Unicron-packaging.jpg|200px|thumb]]
*'''Unicron''' (Supreme Class, 2008)
**''Accessories'': 6 missiles, giant chest-missile

:For ''[[Transformers: Universe (2008 toyline)|Universe]]'', ''Armada'' Unicron was [[rebranding|rebranded]] with no deco differences, even retaining the ''Armada'' release's product code. He was sold as a [[Toys"R"Us]] [[exclusive]]. As with all Unicron products produced by Hasbro since ''Cybertron'' Unicron, he is placed in the Decepticon faction. Once again, the on-box [[bio]] profile describes Unicron's nature as a [[multiversal singularity]].
{{ArmadaUnicronMold}}
{{-}}

===''Transformers'' (2010)===
[[File:TF2010toy-Unicron.jpg|thumb|upright=2.2|Orange you glad it's 2010?]]
*'''Universal Dominator Unicron''' (September [[2010]])
**''Accessories'': 6 missiles, giant chest-missile, [[Dead End (Armada)#Transformers (2010)|Bug]]

:A [[retool]] of Supreme Class ''Armada'' Unicron toy (see above), this Unicron is given a new head and an [[The Transformers: The Movie|animated film]]-inspired deco. He retains all of his original [[gimmick]]s, including electronics. His Mini-Con partner, Bug, is still included.

:This set is only available in Japan as a [[TakaraTomy Mall|Toy Hobby Market]] [[exclusive]], with orders being taken from [[June 1]]st through [[July 4]]th. The toy was released at the end of September 2010. Unicron is part of [[TakaraTomy|Takara]]'s ''[[Welcome to Transformers 2010]]'' anniversary celebration, and is packaged in a special box that is meant to go with the [[Primus#2010|Creator Primus]] toy released the same year. Unicron comes with two "[[Robot Point|points]]" redeemable towards a talking stand for ''[[The Transformers: Masterpiece|Masterpiece]]'' [[Hot Rod (G1)/toys#Masterpiece|Rodimus Convoy]].

: This Unicron utilizes parts from both versions of ''Armada'' Unicron, having wings from the initial release, but hinged shoulder plates with holes on the backs for pegs from the slightly retooled version.
{{ArmadaUnicronMold}}

{{-}}{{anchor|Hasbro2010}}
[[File:2010 Amazon Unicron.jpg|upright=2.2|thumb|YOU GET THE BEEEEEEEEEEST OF BOTH WORLLLLLDS]]
*'''Unicron''' (Supreme Class, [[2011]])
**''Accessories'': 6 missiles, giant chest-missile, [[Kranix (G1)#Transformers (2010)|Kranix]]

:Made in honor of the 25th anniversary of ''The Transformers: The Movie'', the 2010 ''Transformers'' toyline's Unicron deco is noticeably different than TakaraTomy's "Welcome to 2010" Unicron release (even though they are both coloured to represent the character from the movie). It is now cast in metallic gray and gold-ish orange, as well as a muted blue. The shade of blue ''may'' be seen as ''comic''-inspired, since the 80's Marvel comics sometimes had blue tones in the figure...but so did Unicron in some scenes of ''The Transformers: The Movie'', so make of it as you will. It comes with the Mini-Con Kranix (identical to the TakaraTomy release) and is exclusive to [[Amazon (website)|Amazon.com]] and also at [[Toys"R"Us]] in Canada, while being available at general retail in parts of Southeast Asia. He was also released in Chile as a Ripley exclusive during Christmas 2011.

:While the packaging is of the 2010 toyline, the [[Instructions|instruction manual]] uses the ''Dark of the Moon'' logos (but not the series' style of instruction graphics).

::*[http://www.tfu.info/2011/Decepticon/Unicron/unicron.htm ''More information on ''Transformers (2010)'' Unicron at TFU.info'']
{{--}}

===''United''===
[[File:United-ArkUnicron-toy.jpg|upright=1.67|thumb|Should I use THE CLAMPS?]]
*'''Ark Unicron''' ([[2012]]-[[February 25|02-25]])
**''ID number:'' '''UN-29'''
**''Accessories'': Missile, 4 spines (2 long, 2 short), Planet X Cyber Key

: Ark Unicron is a straight redeco of the Deluxe Class ''Cybertron'' Unicron toy and is, for some reason, packaged in a Voyager-sized box. He is redecoed in colors similar to the 2010 ''Transformers'' Unicron figure, replacing his orange plastic with a darker, metallic shade, his dark gray with a muted blue, and his tan with gray. The Cyber Key retains its Key Code.

:Like the 5th and 6th wave figures, Ark Unicron's package feature a sticker that said "limited quantity (数量限定)", indicating that this figure is released in limited numbers after its first and only shipment.

:This figure was [[repurposing|repurposed]] as several of Unicron's [[Acolyte of Unicron|disciples]] in the [[Generations Selects Special Comic|''Generation Selects'']] comics.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2012/Unicron/ArkUnicron/unicron.htm More information on Ark Unicron at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===''Prime''===
[[File:Primetoy-UnicronArmsMicron.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67|Do they even really ''need'' to fight him? With all that gold plastic [[Gold Plastic Syndrome|he'll probably just crumble to bits]] if Optimus so much as points at him forcefully.]]
*'''Gaia Unicron''' (2012-[[September 29|09-29]])
**''ID number'': '''AM-19'''
**''Accessories'': "Bogu" Arms Micron

:Part of the seventh wave of Japanese [[Transformers: Prime (toyline)|''Prime'' toys]], and exclusive to said line, Gaia Unicron is an all-new mold which transforms from Unicron's robot mode into a space cruiser which looks a lot more like Unicron's face on a volcano. He also [[Partformer|partsforms]] into "[[Gaia Armor]]" for either Voyager Optimus Prime or Megatron, which more or less leaves most of his mass hanging off the wearer's butt. The Gaia Armor features a "loincloth" panel which has one of each of the 3 Arms Micron Power crystals, not unlike [[Hades]]' tail. Though his [[sticker]] sheet comes with Decepticon symbols for his shoulders, there are also optional [[Blentron]] stickers. His soft plastic wings are prone to drying out and cracking with age, primarily near their connection points.

:Unicron's [[Arms Micron]] partner, [[Bogu]], transforms from what appears to be a robot mole into a pointy claw to replace one of Unicron's spiked club arms. (The displaced club arm can snap onto the back of the other club arm.) Gaia Unicron and his micron feature ''numerous'' [[5 mm post]]s and peg-holes.

:Compared to his [[stock photography]], most (if not all) Gaia Unicrons have [[Misassembly|mis-assembled]] knees, with two small gray parts on the inner portions of his knees being swapped, thus restricting his knee [[articulation]]. This cannot be fixed without knocking out a few pins. It's also common to find one with two of the same knee joint, meaning that swapping them won't fix the issue.

{{-}}{{anchor|PrimeUnicronPack}}
[[File:TFP-YotS-Gaia-Unicron.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb]]
*'''Optimus Prime + Gaia Unicron''' ([[2013]])
**''Accessories'': "Bogu" Arms Micron

:This Asian-exclusive redeco of Gaia Unicron features a sticker-less, extensive paint-job, coating his shoulder-pads and large club-arm in shiny metallic paints that match his [[Vacuum metallizing|vacuum-metallized]] parts, with some additional glossy-black and metallic-magenta paint details here and there. Bogu comes pre-assembled and lacks stickers. Gaia Unicron's knees are still mis-assembled.

:He and Bogu come in a multi-pack with a similarly-shiny [[Optimus Prime (WFC)/toys#PrimeUnicronPack|Optimus Prime]] (with [[O.P.#PrimeUnicronPack|O.P]]).

{{-}}{{anchor|Nightmare}}
[[File:TFP-AM-Nightmare-Unicron.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb]]
*'''Nightmare Unicron''' (2013)
**''Accessories'': "Bogu M" Arms Micron

:A black, grey, and red redeco of Gaia Unicron, this version of the chaos-bringer is designed to match up with [[Nemesis Prime (Prime)|Nemesis Prime]]. Notably, this is the first release of the mold to feature correctly-assembled knees.

:Nightmare Unicron was released as a Cybertron Satellite store exclusive in Japan. Prior to the release, he was revealed as a prize for the second Arms Up Micron contest.
{{-}}

===''Platinum Edition''===
[[File:TF-Platinum-Edition-Unicron.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb]]
*'''Unicron''' (Supreme Class, [[2016]])
**''Accessories'': 6 missiles, giant chest-missile, [[Kranix (G1)#Generations|Kranix]]

:Part of Hasbro's ''[[Transformers: Platinum Edition|Platinum Edition]]'' offerings for 2016 intended to commemorate the 30th anniversary of ''[[The Transformers: The Movie]]'', Unicron is a redeco of the [[#Transformers (2010)|2010 ''Transformers'' Unicron]] toy, itself a retool of ''Armada'' Unicron. It is similar but not identical to the previous Hasbro 2011 Amazon.com release–the blue is now much lighter and slightly less saturated, while the orange is slightly lighter and the grey is darker, both of which are more metallic. The leg missiles have also changed to a darker blood red plastic. The paint deco is unchanged aside from matching the tweaked color scheme. The mold is also showing its age, as it is much harder to get the planet halves to stay latched together compared to past releases.

:Like several of the 2016 ''Platinum Edition'' sets, Unicron saw a very limited release: Essentially, he was only ever officially released in some of Hasbro's Asian markets such as Hong Kong. A small number of US-based online retailers (such as [[BigBadToyStore]]), plus a few more from Canada and the United Kingdom, stocked him as well, having obtained their stock through Asian vendors.
{{ArmadaUnicronMold}}
{{--}}

===HasLab===
[[File:TF-WFC-S-Unicron.jpg|upright=4|thumb|"For a time... I considered sparing your wretched bank account. But now, you shall witness... ITS WITHDRAWAL!"]]
*'''Unicron''' ([[2021]])
**''Series'': '''''[[War for Cybertron Trilogy (franchise)|War for Cybertron Trilogy]]'''''
**''Accessories'': Damaged face plate, two chin pieces, [[Galvatron (G1)/toys#HasLab|Galvatron]] mini-figurine, [[Hot Rod (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron Trilogy|Hot Rod]] mini-figurine, Autobot shuttle, planet display stand, head display stand

:At over 27 inches tall in robot mode, 30 inches wide in planet mode, and weighing 16 pounds including his stand, ''[[War for Cybertron Trilogy (toyline)|War for Cybertron Trilogy]]'' Unicron is the biggest ''Transformers'' figure to date, overthrowing [[Titans Return (toyline)|''Titans Return'']] [[Fortress Maximus (G1)/toys#Generations|Fortress Maximus]].

:...and at $575 USD plus tax, it overthrows your car payment and auto insurance.

:Features include over 50 points of articulation (including a whopping 15 points per hand, plus posable eyes, mouth and teeth), a geared chomping planet mouth with articulated mandibles, a removable head, an [[Autobot shuttle#Toys|Autobot shuttle]], and ''minuscule'' [[Galvatron (G1)/toys#HasLab|Galvatron]] and [[Hot Rod (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron Trilogy|Hot Rod]] figurines to eat. Two display stands are included: a large main stand that can be used in both modes, and a smaller display stand for the head and some of the accessories. To make it easier to manipulate such a massive toy, he can remain attached to the larger display stand during transformation, and his planetary rings/wings can be detached, but transformation is possible without removing any parts. The pointy bits around the equator are molded in flexible plastic for fragility reasons. His head has an alternate damaged faceplate, an alternate forked chin, and hidden skull details. Beneath the main display stand is a compartment to store whichever faceplate and chin piece aren't in use.

:In a first for the ''Transformers'' brand, Unicron includes tiny plastic plugs to conceal screw holes on the front of his left arm, the back of his right arm, and on the planet's pinching mandibles. The 22 screw hole covers are packaged on a sprue. All of the plugs conceal asymmetries resulting from shared parts between the left and the right sides of the figure.

:To achieve the screen-accurate spherical shape for his planet mode, Unicron's transformation consists mainly of [[Shellformer|his planet mode's outer shell splitting apart and packing into layers on the back of his torso and legs]]. A rear panel of the planet does form Unicron's forearms, emulating his transformation scene in ''[[The Transformers: The Movie]]''. Each wing has nine joints used for transformation. The planetary ring is radially symmetrical, and can be connected with its parallel points oriented clockwise or counter-clockwise (instructions show clockwise, most of the promotional materials show counter-clockwise). The wings and equatorial spikes require much assembly. Along with the [[#Cybertron|''Cybertron'' Deluxe mold]], this is one of only two Unicron toys to feature his iconic [[Dracula]]-style collar.

:The final production figure has a few visible differences from the stock photos, convention appearance specimens, and even its own instruction booklet. Most conspicuously, the inner planetary maw is now blue instead of yellow, and the robot lower teeth are grey-blue instead of painted silver. The tiny Galvatron and Hot Rod figures are also completely different sculpts with rectangular bases and fewer colors. Promotional renders of the Autobot shuttle accessory were shown in a single color, but in production some of the details are painted over in silver.

:The small display stand for Unicron's head has many places on its legs to display the shuttle and mini-figurines, and room for additional similar items. There are 15 rectangular sockets for figurines like Galvatron, Hot Rod, or Optimus Prime (of whom you have [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generations toys#War for Cybertron Trilogy|two]] [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generations toys#K30|options]]), and there are three places to attach the 5mm post for the Autobot Shuttle's display armature or other items with 5mm posts. [[Galvatron (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Kingdom|The ''Kingdom'' Galvatron toy]] was packaged with a version of [[Revenge (G1)|The Revenge]], which was intended to be in-scale with this Unicron figure, and features a 5mm post on its underside, but it does not have sufficient physical clearances to fit into any of the ports on this display stand.

:Yes, he can support his own weight in robot mode without his stand. No, the head does not need to be removed during transformation; it fits inside the planet mode by rotating his horns down.

:The bottom of the planet mode features two flaps designed to conceal the insertion slot for the stand, just in case you figure out a way to display planet mode without the stand. Unfortunately, one of the flaps takes some fiddling to flip, and the author of the instructions expected them to be packaged flipped-in so Unicron could immediately connect to his stand, but most specimens were not found that way, making the average unboxing experience frustrating. The final page of the instruction book, read in reverse order, shows how to flip this flap and fix this problem.

:[https://hasbropulse.com/products/transformers-war-for-cybertron-unicron Announced] by [[Hasbro Pulse]] on [[July 15]], [[2019]], Unicron is the first ''Transformers'' toy to be released as a crowdfunded project from [[Hasbro Pulse#HasLab|HasLab]]. Unicron required a minimum of 8,000 backers to be put into production, with an initial deadline of [[August 31]]. On [[August 29]], Hasbro announced it was pushing the end date back to [[October 6]] (the end of [[New York Comic Con]] 2019) in response to fan feedback asking for more time; the project finally achieved the 8,000 backer goal one day before the new deadline, on [[October 5]]. On October 6, the project finished (according to the HTML code of the progress bar) at 140.9%, or 11,272 units, despite officially only displaying “8,000+”. More than a month later, the page was changed to officially read “12,000+ Backers”. In addition to the Unicron figure itself, HasLab backers received a digital comics bundle from [[IDW Publishing]] (featuring [[:File:UnicronHaslabBundleCover.jpg|new cover art]] by [[Andrew Griffith]] that homages the cover of [[Marvel Comics|Marvel]]'s ''[[The Transformers (Marvel comic)|The Transformers]]'' [[The Transformers (issue)|#1]]), which contains the four-issue ''[[Transformers: The Animated Movie]]'' miniseries, and [[The World In Your Eyes Part One|the first issue]] of the 2019 ''[[Transformers (2019 comic)|Transformers]]'' ongoing series. Unicron began shipping to purchasers in February 2021.

:The [[Galvatron (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron Trilogy| "Behold, Galvatron!" Unicron Companion Pack]] is intended as an add-on set, featuring [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]] in a clear purple deco reminiscent of his reformatting scene, small painted ships of the ''Revenge'' (a different sculpt than Galvatron's hand weapons), a [[Quintesson]] [[Quintesson Cruiser#War for Cybertron Trilogy|ship]], and the [[Junkion (species)|Junkions']] ''[[Minnow#War for Cybertron Trilogy|Minnow]]'', as well as an additional 14 mini-figures that can be placed on the display stand.
{{--}}

==Merchandise==
===Hard Hero===
[[File:HHUnicron statue.jpg|upright=1.1|thumb|Weighs almost as much as the real thing]]
*'''Unicron''' (BotCon 2002)

:This statue of Unicron is a huge cold-cast porcelain statue based upon the cartoon design of Unicron. It was originally a [[BotCon 2002]] [[exclusive]] before being released to the general public.
{{-}}

===''Titanium Series''===
[[File:Titanium RM Unicron.jpg|upright=1.1|thumb|"Screw transforming. Watch me convert this 7-10 split."]]
*'''Unicron''' (3" Robot Master, 2006)
**''Accessories'': Decepticon stand

: Part of the very first wave of ''[[Titanium Series]]'' "Robot Masters" figurines, Unicron is a 3-inch-tall figurine made partially of [[die-cast]] metal, with movable arms. One hand holds what seems to be a moon (or he's going bowling).

::*[http://www.tfu.info/2006/Unicron/TitUnicron/unicron.htm ''More information on ''Titanium'' Unicron at TFU.info'']
{{-}}

===Art Asylum===
[[File:AAUnicron statue.jpg|upright=1.67|thumb|Oh, I see how this works. You say, "Behind you!" and I turn around, and while I'm staring at nothing, you run away. Well, I'm not falling for it!]]
*'''Unicron Movie Statue''' (Diamond Select, 2007)

:This statue of Unicron stands 8 ½” tall and is limited to 1,986 pieces (as in 1986, the year the original animated ''[[The Transformers: The Movie|Transformers]]'' movie was released). It also features a smaller statue of Hot Rod standing upon the centerpiece holding the [[Matrix of Leadership]] aloft. Oddly enough, Hot Rod is in his toy colours.
{{-}}

===''Robot Heroes''===
[[File:RH Prime vs Unicron.jpg|upright=1.67|thumb|Quite possibly the only Unicron you could ever afford.]]
*'''Optimus Prime & Unicron''' (Two-pack, 2007)

: Based on a cartoon-ified version of his ''[[The Transformers: The Movie]]'' model, Unicron's entry in the ''[[Robot Heroes (toyline)|Robot Heroes]]'' line comes packed with a [[Matrix of Leadership]]-brandishing [[Optimus Prime (G1)/merchandise#RHUnicron|Optimus Prime]]. His articulation consists solely of his shoulder joints. Also, it was noted that Unicron doesn't have a smiling mouth unlike most of the Robot Heroes figures.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2007/Unicron/Unicron/unicron.htm More information on ''Robot Heroes'' Unicron at TFU.info]''

{{anchor|RHBlindpack}}
*'''Unicron''' (Single-pack, 2008)

: In some countries outside of North America, Unicron was released individually in a blindpack with no notable changes.
{{--}}

===Diamond Select===
[[File:Reformatted statue.jpg|thumb|upright=0.85|Downloading Megatron.exe, 74% Complete]]
*'''Megatron Reformatted Bust''' (Action Figure Xpress exclusive, 2008)

:"Megatron Reformatted" is a bust exclusively available through Action Figure Xpress, depicting the Decepticon leader in the beginning stages of his reformation into Galvatron as featured in ''The Transformers: The Movie''. This bust features a base in the shape of Unicron.

{{-}}

[[File:DST09 Galvatron bust.jpg|thumb|upright=o.85|Download complete! Run: Y/N]]
*'''Galvatron''' (2009)

:Similar to the above piece, this bust depicts the newly-created Galvatron suspended above Unicron. It was sculpted by [[Art Asylum]] and was limited to 1,000 pieces.

{{-}}

===''Tiny Titans''===
[[File:TinyTitans-Series6-Unicron.jpg|right|thumb]]
*'''Unicron''' (Tiny Titans, 2016)
**''Series'': '''6'''
**''Number'': '''9/12'''

: Part of the sixth and final [[Blindpacking|blind-bagged]] assortment of ''[[Tiny Titans]]'', this toy is a small, soft-plastic figurine of the Chaos Bringer, oddly brandishing a butcher knife that he has never used in any work of fiction prior to this toy's release.

: He includes a collectible card that renders him in the [[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2015 franchise)|2015 ''Robots in Disguise'']] styling. The card includes a scan-badge for the [[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (mobile game)|''Robots in Disguise'' mobile game]], which unlocks a random amount of Energon "currency" and a randomized bonus power-up item.

{{-}}

===EX Gōkin+===
[[File:EXGokin UnicronHead.jpg|upright=1.1|thumb|Devourer of Wallets]]
*'''Unicron Head''' (2015)
**''Accessories:'' 2 whole eyes, 2 shattered eyes, stand

:Produced by [[Art Storm]] as part of their ''EX Gōkin+'' line, this is a large, extensively detailed sculpt of Unicron's disembodied head as seen in the third season of the Generation 1 cartoon. He comes with alternate eye parts, allowing you to display him with either shattered or undamaged eyes.

::*''[http://artstorm.co.jp/exgokinplus_unicronhead.html More information on Unicron Head at Art Storm's official site]''

{{--}}

===Soldier Story===
[[File:Soldier-Story-Unicron-lamp.jpeg|upright=1.1|thumb|Our darkest lighter.]]
*'''Unicron''' (2017)
**''Accessories:'' Hot Rod, Hot Rod clear stand, remote control, USB power cable

:Another high-end collectible, the [[Soldier Story Toys]] Unicron table lamp stands over 26" tall and is bedecked with over 70 LEDs of various colors all over it. It also projects the movie-style Decepticon [[insignia]] above it. The lamp also includes a 6" Hot Rod holding the Matrix of Leadership.

::*''[http://www.soldierstory-toys.com/products_show.asp?id=193 More information on the Unicron table lamp at Soldier Story's website]''
{{-}}
===Symbiote Studios===
[[File:Symbiote-Studios-Unicron-Plush.jpg|thumb|upright=1.1|"Complete the Cuddle."<br>"Hahahaha, DO IT YOURSELF!"]]
*'''Unicron Plush''' (2021)

:Available exclusively for San Diego/LA Comic-Con 2021, this adorable head plush of the Devourer of the Planets is produced by Symbiote Studios, and officially licensed by Hasbro. Made with high-quality soft minky fabric.

{{-}}

===Icon Heroes===
[[File:Icon-Heroes-Unicron-Pen-Holder.jpg|thumb|upright=1.1|As the old saying goes, the pen is mightier than the Matrix.]]
*'''Unicron Pen Holder''' (2022)

:A polystone replica of Unicron's severed head produced by Icon Heroes, meant to be used as a pen holder. It features a large gap on its top to accomodate multiple pens, while each of its shattered eyes can store one pen at a time to humorous effect.

{{comingsoontoy}}

{{--}}

==References==
{{reflist}}

==External links==
*[http://www.luckydrawtransformers.com/content.php?/transformers-lucky-draw/toy-gallery/1088/Green+Unicron.html Photo gallery and review of Green Lucky Draw Unicron]
*[http://www.transformertoys.co.uk/content.php?/transformers-gallery/merchandise/25/merchandise/Unicron+Japanese+Store+Display.html Inflatable Unicron store display gallery]

[[Category:Armada characters]]
[[Category:Beast Wars Neo characters]]
[[Category:Cybertron Decepticons]]
[[Category:Dark of the Moon Decepticons]]
[[Category:Energon characters]]
[[Category:Generation 1 characters]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Decepticons]]
[[Category:Generations]]
[[Category:Planet X]]
[[Category:Platinum Edition]]
[[Category:Prime Decepticons]]
[[Category:Robots in Disguise (2001) Decepticons]]
[[Category:Robot Heroes]]
[[Category:Titanium Series]]
[[Category:Toys"R"Us exclusives]]
[[Category:Transformers (2010) Decepticons]]
[[Category:Unicron| ]]
[[Category:United Decepticons]]
[[Category:Universe (2008)]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron Trilogy characters]]

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2022-03-03T18:06:57Z

Spectre: /* What makes a franchise? Or, does "Precursor World" exist? */

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2022-03-03T17:46:28Z

Spectre: /* What makes a franchise? Or, does "Precursor World" exist? */

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2022-03-03T17:16:09Z

Spectre: /* What makes a franchise? Or, does "Precursor World" exist? */ new section

Scorponok (BW)

2022-02-20T06:20:30Z

Spectre: Info that Vintage Scorponok's cyber bee doesn't lock is not factual. It might be on one sample, but it is not universal.

{{factions|predacon|decepticon|liegemaximo}}
{{disambig3|Scorponok}}
:''Scorponok is a [[Predacon (BW)|Predacon]] from the [[Beast Wars: Transformers (franchise)|Beast Wars]] portion of the [[Generation 1 continuity family|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''

[[File:BWScorponokSticker.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Transforms into a scorpion. Surprise?]]
'''Scorponok'''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s personality seems to have two main features: He's often dumb, and he's always loyal to [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]] (surprisingly so, considering Megatron's [[Terrorsaur (BW)|other]] [[Tarantulas (BW)|crew]] [[Blackarachnia (BW)|members]]), and of those two features, only the loyalty seems to be consistent. He tries to serve Megatron to the best of his abilities, but when [[Waspinator (BW)|Waspinator]] is able to outwit you, there's only so much you have to offer.

Scorponok serves as Megatron's newly promoted [[second-in-command]] on the ''[[Darksyde (BW)|Darksyde]]'' after [[Dinobot (BW)|Dinobot]]'s defection to the [[Maximal]]s, though he is insecure about the title and constantly tries to assert himself among the other Predacons who, aware of his shortcomings, generally dismiss or ignore him.

Scorponok's only other real contribution to Megatron's cause is in developing cyber-viruses that he delivers with his [[Cyberbee|cyberbee drone]]. (This is impressive, actually, given his otherwise limited mentality.) However, these generally don't work out as he hoped, and so they've done little to increase his standing in the eyes of the other Predacons.

==Fiction==
===Toy bios===
Inhabiting the [[Mojave Desert]], Scorponok was suited to the harsh conditions of this arid environment. Described as vicious, this desert attack specialist relied mainly on surprise attacks to overcome his foes. For this task, he possessed three alternatives: launching a robotic bee stored in one claw, his 2-shot missile blast stored in the other; his terrifying tail, which dealt poisonous cyber-strikes. {{storylink|Scorponok (BW)#Toys|Scorponok bio}}

===Cartoon continuity===
====''Beast Wars'' cartoon====
{{voiceactor|[[Don Brown]] (English), [[Masashi Endō]] (Japanese)|[[Fang Shuqiao]] (Chinese), [[Alexandr Novikov]] (Russian, 1st dub), [[Bernard Métraux]] (French), [[Sidney Lilla]] (Portuguese), [[Antonio Paiola]] (Italian), [[Mario Grete]] (German), [[Bardo Miranda]] (American Spanish), [[Enrique Cazorla]] (Castilian Spanish)}}

[[File:BeastWars1 Scorponok battleready.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.55|OUR MISSILES!]]
Crash-landing on an unknown planet, Scorponok and his peers were forced to take on organic [[beast mode]]s to shield themselves from the planet's dangerous levels of raw [[energon]]. Scorponok took a scorpion as his new [[alternate mode]]. When Dinobot furiously berated [[Megatron (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity|Megatron]] for foolishly marooning them on the wrong planet and attempted to attack his leader, Scorponok stood behind Megatron and waited for his cue to fire on Dinobot, sending the traitor far into the distance. Later, Scorponok participated in the first battle between the Maximal and Predacon factions and managed to trap [[Cheetor (BW)|Cheetor's]] leg under a boulder. However, the Predacons soon succumbed to energon overload. {{storylink|Beast Wars (Part 1)}}

After recovering in beast mode, Scorponok and the lower-ranking Predacons were wagering who would win the battle between [[Optimus Primal (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity|Optimus Primal]] and Dinobot until Megatron ordered them to fire on the unwitting combatants. After their shots failed to destroy the Maximals but instead revealed a massive energon cache buried inside a mountain, the Predacons moved out, followed by the Maximals. The two parties confronted each other at the energon cache, and Scorponok fought Dinobot in the one-on-one clashes that ensued. {{storylink|Beast Wars (Part 2)}}

[[File:TheWeb Scorponok beastmode.jpg|upright=1.2|thumb|[http://biosector01.com/wiki/index.php/Vorox Beware my stinger tail!]]]
While Scorponok was later salvaging a mega-cannon, he was surprised by Cheetor. Luckily [[Tarantulas (BW)|Tarantulas]] distracted the Maximal, giving Scorponok time to hit Cheetor with a missile. Despite asserting that he was second in command and should be giving the orders, Scorponok took Tarantulas's suggestion to scarper before Optimus Primal arrived. He subsequently installed the cannon as part of the perimeter defenses for the Predacon base, aided by [[Terrorsaur (BW)|Terrorsaur]] and [[Waspinator (BW)|Waspinator]]. {{storylink|The Web}} Scorponok found himself hunting Cheetor again, when the cat somehow teleported into the Predacon base. Cheetor escaped into the ducts, so Scorponok sent a missile in after him, unsuccessfully. A short time later, they found Cheetor messing with the Predacon computer, so Scorponok fired another missile at him, only for it to end up slagging himself and Waspinator. {{storylink|Equal Measures}}

[[File:ChainofCommand Scorponok fail.jpg|left|upright=1.1|thumb|Looks like somebody forgot their parachute before skydiving...]]
Scorponok took part in a battle at the [[Standing Stones]], and ended up face-down in the dirt after Cheetor shot him. After Primal went missing, blasted by an [[Vok probe|alien probe]], Megatron sent Scorponok and Waspinator to guard the Standing Stones. As it turned out, Primal wasn't dead, and after he was released from the probe, he blasted all of the Predacons. {{storylink|Chain of Command (BW)|Chain of Command}} When Terrorsaur mounted a leadership bid and badly damaged Megatron, Scorponok simply had his leader repaired the ''instant'' Terrorsaur wasn't looking. {{storylink|Power Surge (episode)|Power Surge}}

After a [[stasis pod]] crashed, Megatron took Scorponok and Tarantulas to attack the Maximal base. While the Predacon leader provided a diversion, the two other Predacons sneaked up on Dinobot, knocking him out. Unfortunately for them, Dinobot had time to activate the ''[[Axalon (BW)|Axalon]]''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> [[autogun]]s, and first Tarantulas, then Scorponok were blasted off the ship. {{storylink|Fallen Comrades}} Scorponok was part of an ambush, enabling the Predacons to steal another stasis pod and bring [[Blackarachnia (BW)|Blackarachnia]] online. Terrorsaur would later mount another bid to become leader, with [[Rattrap (BW)|Rattrap]]'s help, but Scorponok announced loudly and at length that his loyalty belonged to Megatron and he would never follow Terrorsaur. As it turned out, Megatron allowed Terrorsaur temporary leadership, so Scorponok appeared to be happy to follow the new leader's commands, at least until it was proved in battle that Terrorsaur was incompetent as a leader. {{storylink|Double Jeopardy}}

Megatron tasked Scorponok with a mission to create a virus for his [[cyberbee]] that would turn Optimus Primal into a coward. Ambushing the Maximal leader and Dinobot as they were on a botanical study near a waterfall, Scorponok managed to have his cyberbee latch onto Optimus when he attempted to help the traitor. Unfortunately, Optimus Primal fired off a shot before going down, dislodging the log Scorponok was sitting upon and sending him over the edge of the waterfall. To greater misfortune, Scorponok had botched the virus, turning Optimus Primal not into a coward, but a fearless, ultra-aggressive berserker. When the Predacons found out about this via a warning from Cheetor, Megatron was so furious that he kicked Scorponok with his T. Rex foot for his incompetence. When Primal ripped the cyberbee off and chucked it at Megatron's back, Megatron rushed away to Scorponok, demanding that he dislodge the time bomb from him immediately. But as try he might, he couldn't get the cyberbee off in time as both he and Megatron were caught in the explosion. {{storylink|Gorilla Warfare}}

[[File:TheProbe Scorponok minus claw.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|He told me enough. He told me you killed him.]]
Scorponok spotted the Maximals building a communications array, and gave a video of it to Terrorsaur to take back to Megatron. After word came through that the array was to be destroyed, he confronted the Maximals. Primal intercepted his missiles, Rattrap blew his claw off, and then Dinobot blasted him into the distance-and he would later be squashed by Blackarachnia when Rattrap blasted her off the same cliff. {{storylink|The Probe}} He was later (improbably) one of the Predacons who staged a revolt against Megatron. That should have been the Maximal's first clue it was only a mock revolt, as once they'd made the ''Axalon'' space-worthy, the Predacons emerged from hiding and attempted to take their ship. Scorponok actually downed Dinobot at the start of the fight, but ended up eating the former Predacon's optic beams and a round of fire from the ''Axalon''. Despite this, he was still able to fire a missile to knock Primal from the entry lift, and Megatron would ensure that the ship would never fly again. {{storylink|Victory (episode)|Victory}}

[[File:DarkDesigns Scorponok squished.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.1|Yet another day Scorponok would rather forget.]]
After [[Rhinox (BW)|Rhinox]] was converted into a Predacon by Megatron's [[Transmuter (BW)|Transmuter]], Scorponok found himself assigned to repair the base computer. Unaware that the computer had actually been sabotaged by Rhinox, he was surprised and shocked when the ex-Maximal dropped a pile of heavy crates on him. A spell in a Predacon restoration pool left him ready to extract some revenge, but Rhinox deftly deflected his rage onto Terrorsaur, and the pair had their heads slammed together by Rhinox. Despite all this, he was able to take part in the inevitable fight with the Maximals, during which he was able to take some of his anger out on Dinobot. He ultimately lost the fight and was at ground zero when the Transmuter exploded. {{storylink|Dark Designs}}

Scorponok acted as a lab assistant to Megatron, as his leader created a [[Clone One|clone of Dinobot]]. He was a teeny bit skeptical at the result. {{storylink|Double Dinobot}} When another stasis pod crashed, Megatron dispatched [[Blackarachnia (BW)|Blackarachnia]] and Scorponok to retrieve it. Blackarachnia was disgusted by Scorponok's subservient attitude, and on their way to the pod, she ditched him. Scorponok almost immediately ran into [[Tigatron]], who ended his quest by freezing him. {{storylink|The Spark}}

Scorponok was again teamed with Blackarachnia when Terrorsaur and Waspinator found a [[Brigadoon|weird flying island]]. After they reached the island, Scorponok used a cyberbee to check the place out, but it was intercepted by Tigatron. {{storylink|The Trigger, Part 1}} The two Predacons reached the obelisk at the center of the island and blasted their way in. When Blackarachnia announced the island's power would allow her to defeat even Megatron, Scorponok revealed that he had been sent with her to make sure that didn't happen. Of course, she promptly tricked him into triggering one of the island's many traps, and he fell through the hole that opened up to the ground below. {{storylink|The Trigger, Part 2}}

[[File:Spider's Game Scorponok Inferno.jpg|upright=1.1|thumb|Looks like someone gave Scorponok...]]
On another occasion, Scorponok was on lookout when he spotted Tarantulas being "chased" by a stasis pod. Megatron ordered he obtain take the stasis pod back to base, so he confronted Tarantulas... only for the pod to blow up, knocking him into some boulders, where a falling rock rendered him unconscious. By the time he recovered, the fight was over, and Megatron ordered him to gather up [[Inferno (BW)|Inferno]] for repair. {{storylink|Spider's Game}} He took part in a diversionary attack on the ''Axalon'', while Waspinator and Terrorsaur stole the ship's [[rectifier coil]]. Later, once the Maximals had gone feral, he participated on the hunt by carrying Megatron's chair, but was taken down by Cheetor once the Maximals overcame their beast instincts. {{storylink|Call of the Wild}}

In one of his rare successes, Scorponok triggered an energon explosion, apparently taking out a group of Maximals. In reality, he'd simply blinded them, but he didn't find this out until after he'd reported back to Megatron. {{storylink|Dark Voyage}} After [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]], possessing the body of Waspinator, helped the Predacons take over the ''Axalon'', Megatron left the [[Decepticon]] in charge of the Maximal base with Scorponok and Blackarachnia as underlings. When the inevitable betrayal occurred, Scorponok put up a token resistance before Starscream blasted him off the side of the ship. {{storylink|Possession}}

[[File:OtherVoices1 Scorponok and Megatron pose.jpg|left|upright=1.4|thumb|So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be. In Nomene Patris Et Filii et Spiritus Sancti]]
Scorponok was among the Predacons who were taken out by Rhinox's almighty fart. {{storylink|The Low Road}} After Megatron declared a truce, and Tigatron infiltrated the Predacon base in search of information, Scorponok and Terrorsaur attempted to stop the Maximal from escaping, and ended up colliding spectacularly. Luckily for Scorponok, he didn't have to pursue Tigatron, as the Predacons who did mostly came back on stretchers. {{storylink|Before the Storm}} Scorponok later accompanied Megatron on a mission to an [[Bio-Dome|alien construct]] which had appeared. His toxic sting was instrumental in breaching the construct's wall, allowing Rattrap to get inside and retrieve [[Airazor (BW)|Airazor]]. Of course, a short time later, Rattrap used one of Scorponok's missiles to dispose of Megatron, shortly before Scorponok himself was blasted by Airazor. {{storylink|Other Voices, Part 1}}

[[File:BW Scorponok Terrorsaur deaths.jpg|upright=0.85|thumb|Oh, the... robotity?]]
Back at base, Scorponok and the other Predacons monitored the situation with the [[Planet Buster]] which had been revealed high above the planet. Though Scorponok was confident that Megatron would save them, his leader announced that he had someone else in mind to do that. As it turned out, Optimus Primal was the one who piloted a modified stasis pod and blew up the Planet Buster. {{storylink|Other Voices, Part 2}} Scorponok celebrated with his fellow Predacons, but the destruction of the alien weapon had other consequences. A [[quantum surge]] flooded through the base, beginning to mutate their bodies into [[Transmetal]]s. However both Scorponok and Terrorsaur lost control of their hover platforms, crashing into each other and tumbling into the lava beneath the Predacon base, where they perished. No one much noticed, though Blackarachnia pointed out that only Waspinator was present with Megatron when the Predacons arrived at the ''Axalon'' (only to keep herself from getting blasted). {{storylink|Aftermath}}
{{--}}

====Japanese Generation 1 cartoon continuity====
=====Yokohama Decepticon Secret Base=====
Scorponok was witness to [[Predacon computer|NAVI-ko]] being sent through [[unspace|transwarp]] to acquire [[Yokohama Convoy|Nemesis Prime]] for the Predacon forces. {{storylink|Yokohama Decepticon Secret Base}}

=====''Cloud''=====
{{charstubfiction|{{storylink|Wild (Cloud)|Wild}}}}

====3H comics====
After using the [[Divine Light]] to access [[Primus]]'s power, [[Cryotek (Universe)|Cryotek]] reanimated several [[Sharkticon (species)|Sharkticon]] corpses into facsimiles of [[Megatron (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity|Megatron]]'s old subordinates, including one of Scorponok. {{storylink|Wreckers: Finale Part II}}

====''Transformers Legends'' anthology====
While Megatron was being guided through the afterlife by Rhinox, he beheld a vision of himself slaughtering his allies and foes alike, Scorponok among them. {{storylink|Singularity Ablyss}}

====2006 IDW ''Beast Wars'' continuity====
[[File:Transmetalscorponok.jpg|thumb|left|You'd look angry too if you had heat burns all over you.]]
The 'bot who would one day call himself "Scorponok" served under [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]] at the tail-end of the Great War. When the Autobot negotiator [[Tigatron]] approached Megatron's camp, Scorponok was instructed to let him come so that they could spring a surprise attack on the unsuspecting 'bot. {{storylink|Dawn of the Predacus}}

After the Quantum Surge hit prehistoric Earth, Scorponok and Terrorsaur did not actually die—they were just put in stasis lock. They awakened after the [[Beast Wars (event)|Beast Wars]] ended, finding themselves in Transmetal bodies. Scorponok got shafted, though—his new body didn't have a third [[alternate mode|vehicle mode]] like everyone else's. He had hover-fans with which he could [[Flight|fly]], though, so that's likely a decent thing. {{storylink|Transformers: Beast Wars Sourcebook|Beast Wars Sourcebook #3}}

====''Timelines''====
{{voiceactor|[[Brad Venable]] (English)}}
[[File:Scorponokbwdawn.jpg|upright=1.1|thumb|Looking at him, he was probably called "Scorponok" before the Beast Wars, too.]]
The Predacon who would become Scorponok was part of a mission with [[Backslash]] to steal the sacred Maximal relic, the [[Golden Disk (Voyager)|Golden Disk]], on behalf of [[Cryotek (Universe)|Cryotek]]; in fact, "Scorponok" was loyal to [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]] and in on his plan to take the disk for himself. He was meant to bomb [[Maximal Power Station B4-Y]] to aid Megatron and his partner's attack; he was almost caught by a guard but Backslash saved him, berating him for being sloppy. Later on, when Backslash was caught by a guard, "Scorponok" laughed, mockingly referencing what Backslash said earlier and happily triggered the bombs, killing his alleged comrade. Nice guy. {{storylink|Theft of the Golden Disk}}

With the Disk in their hands (and Scorponok having time to completely change bodies!), the thieves were picked up by their other comrades in a stolen ship, newly christened the ''Darksyde''. Soon after leaving Cybertron, the ''Darksyde'' was involved in a space battle with the Maximal vessels ''[[Axalon (BW)|Axalon]]'' and ''[[Chromia 10]]'' and an unidentified Predacon ship. At its conclusion, only the ''Axalon'' and the ''Darksyde'' survived, and both ships passed through a [[unspace|transwarp]] portal to an unknown destination. {{storylink|Dawn of Future's Past}}

Two weeks after [[Airazor (BW)|Airazor]] was reborn on [[Earth]], Scorponok fought to defend an orbital weapon from the Maximals. Scorponok and the launching pad were dealt with by Airazor. {{storylink|The Razor's Edge}}
{{--}}

====Waspscream continuity====
In [[Primax 208.06 Zeta]], the Starscream of [[Primax 206.15 Gamma]] merged with Waspinator to successfully defeat the Maximals and, after a [[quantum surge]], threw Megatron, Inferno, and Scorponok into containment. However, Megatron escaped en route to Cybertron, harvested everyone's sparks, used their remaining bodies to create his [[Vehicon (BM)|Vehicon]] hordes. Wanting generals for his army, Megatron 'rescued' Waspscream's prisoners. Scorponok was horrified by what had happened to Cybertron and wanted no part of it. Megatron cared little for his objections and ripped out his spark to create his general [[Tankor (BM)#3H comics|Tankor]]. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Facebook|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/08/16}}

===''Transformers Legends'' anthology===
When [[human]] archaeologists uncovered a cave filled with primitive language, [[Mini-Con]] [[Laserbeak (Armada)|Laserbeak]] translated it for them. The markings told of a time when the Maximals and Predacons crash-landed on prehistoric Earth, though the stranded Transformers were seen by the protohumans as gods. One in the form of an "scorpion" was among them. {{storylink|Fire in the Dark}}

===Legends World===
Scorponok was an employee at [[Tera-Kura Co.]] with an unrequited crush on [[Megatron (BW)#Transformers Legends comic|President Megatron]]. Megatron didn't appreciate his feelings. {{storylink|Legends Vol. 13#Rivals! Tera-Kura Co.!|Rivals! Tera-Kura Co.!}} At some point during the work day, Scorponok joined his other male employees in admiring [[Blackarachnia (BW)#Transformers Legends comic|Blackarachnia]] and [[Slipstream (Animated)|Slipstream]]. {{Storylink|LG-15 Nightbird Shadow Sequel}} When the [[Waspinator (BW)#Cartoon continuity|Waspinator]] of another world took over Tera-Kura, he forced Scorponok to fan him with a palm leaf. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. EX (Waspinator)|Bonus Edition Vol. EX}} He was among the employees charged with moving [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]]'s [[transformation cog]] to safety during an attack, but could do little to fight back when [[Full-Tilt (G1)|Full-Tilt]] came for it. {{storylink|LG43 Trypticon Mobilization Chapter: Decepticon Civil War|Decepticon Civil War}} He was later present when Megatron got control of his company back. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 63|Bonus Edition Vol. 63}}

After the [[Legends World]] was restored, Scorponok watched on as [[T-AI|Ai]] attempted to arrest [[Tarantulas (BW)|Tarantulas]] in [[Tera-Kura Co.]] {{Storylink|Transformers Legends Final Chapter "Epiloge"|Epiloge}}

===''Beast Wars: Uprising''===
[[File:IdentityPolitics Scorponok.jpg|thumb|upright=1.3|"You are not the guy. You're not capable of ''being'' the guy. I had a guy but now I don't. You are not the guy!"]]
Scorponok served as a lowly programmer for the [[Dynamic Energon Distilleries]] plant in [[Iacon (polity)|Iacon]]. However, his lucky break came when he bumped into [[Stockade (Universe 2003)|two]] [[Rav (BWU)|Maximals]] breaking in to the plant. The security guard [[Impound]] was able to catch them, and Scorponok was congratulated personally by the administrator, [[Megatron (BW)#Beast Wars: Uprising|Gnashteeth]]. During their meeting, Scorponok was impressed with both Gnashteeth's collection of [[Decepticon]] relics and his powerful personality. Gnashteeth promoted him to senior programmer, cementing Scorponok's belief in his boss. During a second meeting, however, Gnashteeth told him that he would be replaced from his position as Administrator before improvements to the [[energon]] process that Scorponok had been making could take form. An idle comment by Scorponok gave Gnashteeth an idea to create and sell extra energon on the black market to become richer than their wildest dreams. Scorponok was a little unsure of the whole thing, but agreed because Gnashteeth made him feel needed.

The two quickly set up their scheme, and began selling their newly-stolen energon. Their first transaction was not satisfactory to Gnashteeth, who vowed to sell directly to the customers, using [[Empty|Empties]] as middlemen. During this time, Scorponok had to put out a hit on one of them, [[Tappet]], who stole his assigned cubes and needed to be made an example. Their rapidly-growing enterprise came under fire on two angles- Gnashteeth was demoted to co-deputy adminstatrator, and another gang, the [[Kospego (group)|Kospegos]], were moving in on their turf. An attempted meeting between the two criminal organizations went poorly- Kospego leader [[Thunderhoof (BWU)|Thunderhoof]] made them wait, their [[Raze|hired]] [[Sting (G1)|muscle]] were bribed to leave, and when negotiations fell through, Gnashteeth was assaulted by Thunderhoof. Thunderhoof, along with [[Terrorsaur (BW)#Beast Wars: Uprising|Terrorsaur]], another Kospego, beat Gnashteeth nearly to death and mockingly dubbed him "Megatron" as Scorponok watched, powerless to intervene. Afterwards, Scorponok took his boss back to the plant to heal him.

While Gnashteeth was recovering, the plant's other co-deptuty, [[Budora (BWU)|Budora]], warned Scorponok that it was probably for the best that Gnashteeth would quietly leave the company. But that proved to be the last straw for Gnashteeth, who decided to quit playing by the rules and take all of the energon he could. Soon afterwards, Scorponok and Gnashteeth faked a meltdown, allowing them to steal scores of cubes. However, Impound tried to remove Scorponok, believing that there actually was an emergency. Scorponok had no choice but to execute the security bot.

Later, Scorponok accompanied his boss to his second meeting with the Kospegos, where Gnashteeth stole a trick right out of Thunderhoof's playbook by bribing Terrorsaur and [[Scavenger (BM)|Scavenger]] to turn on their boss, and Scorponok, all reluctance towards violence removed, helped deal with him. The new gang, gathered in a warehouse, christened themselves "Darksyders" based on Scorponok's suggestion. {{storylink|Identity Politics}}

[[File:NotAllMegatrons-newbodies.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.4|"Yeah, Mr. White! Yeah, science!"]]

Scorponok remained at Megatron's side as the Darksyders consolidated control over the Cybertronian underworld, including the [[Destron Boy]]s and finally the [[Minion of Unicron (BW)|Minions of Unicron]]. Yet Megatron was unfulfilled, as their success didn't come until after the [[Grand Uprising]] of the Resistance had begun to challenge the Builders. Megatron wanted nothing [[Lio Convoy]] could give him, but greater power and glory clearly lay in changing the social order somehow. Scorponok assisted Megatron in a thought experiment that led him to his next quest: removing energon dependency from the population.

As Megatron's project consumed him, Scorponok did his best to facilitate his master's wishes. He coordinated various Darksyders and independent contractors in acquiring the technology needed to make the impossible happen. He also liaised with [[Leatherhide (Universe)|Leatherhide]], the Builder mad scientist that Megatron brought into the fold to aid his schemes. Finally, success was achieved and the Darksyders were the first protoformers to adopt [[Beast mode]]s, allowing them to produce their own energon through natural processes like the mechanimals of Cybertron. {{storylink|Not All Megatrons}}

Sale of the [[Beast Upgrade]] technology made the Darksyders both legitimate and rich. They were able to move into a heavily fortified base in Iacon prior to the [[Vehicon Apocalypse]] spreading across the planet. Scorponok barricaded the doors and windows as Megatron put Leatherhide to work creating the means to oppose the Vehicons. He succeeded, and Wasp was turned into Waspinator (with a little help from Scorponok and Terrorsaur choosing him as a test subject), able to turn the Vehicons away with a wireless signal. {{storylink|Derailment}}
{{--}}

===2005 IDW continuity===
Scorponok was one of [[Shockwave (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Onyx Prime]]'s Maximals. When the Maximals invaded Cybertron, he was one of the many warriors who wound up battling [[Arcee (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Arcee]] and fell to his death when Arcee disrupted the [[Ore-4|gravity generator]] in [[Nemesis (BW)|Nemesis]]. {{storylink|The Falling, Chapter 6: Unforgivable|Unforgivable}}

===2021 ''Beast Wars'' comic===
{{charstubfiction}}
{{--}}

===''War for Cybertron Trilogy'' continuity===
====''War for Cybertron Trilogy'' marketing material====
[[File:WFC-Kingdom-Scorponok-art.jpg|thumb|upright=0.6]]
The Predacons traveled across time to find the [[AllSpark]] and change the fate of Cybertron. While battling the [[Maximal]]s on pre-[[Ice Age]] Earth, both sides were joined by the Autobots and Decepticons, their epic battle changing their combined destinies forever.

Scorponok's function was a guard, and he [[trans-scan]]ned into a scorpion. His [[Cyberbee]] and mega [[missile]]s were his powers and weapons, and his core traits were his dutifulness, single-mindedness, and strength. Scorponok's message from the future was that he will be [[Mirage (G1)|deceived]] by [[Astrotrain (G1)|someone]] he thought was on his side. {{storylink|War for Cybertron: Kingdom|''Kingdom'' webpage}}<ref>[https://transformers.hasbro.com/en-us/brands/kingdom ''Kingdom'' webpage]</ref>

During the collective battle, Scorponok pursued [[Skywarp (BW)|Skywarp]] and the Autobot [[Sideswipe (G1)|Sideswipe]]. {{storylink|War for Cybertron: Kingdom|Battle Across Time Collection marketing material}}<ref>[https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08TM27396/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Battle Across Time Collection on Amazon]</ref>

In a possible destiny recorded on the [[Golden Disk (Voyager)|''Voyager'' Golden Disk]], Scorponok was present when [[Blackarachnia (BW)|Blackarachnia]] became a Maximal. In other possible destiny, he was part of the united Maximal-Predacon faction lead by [[Dinobot (BW)|Dinobot]]. {{storylink|Source:Golden Disk destinies|''Kingdom'' Golden Disk cards}}
{{--}}

====''War for Cybertron Trilogy'' cartoon====
{{voiceactor|[[Danny Hansen]] (English)}}
[[File:WFC-Kingdom-Ep2-Scorponok-gets-fooled.jpg|thumb|upright=1.2|left]]
{{charfictionstub}}

==Games==
===''Beast Wars: Transformers'' video game continuity===
====''Beast Wars: Transformers'' video game advertising comic====
Upon arriving on "[[Earth|Planet Energon]]," the dangers of Energon radiation forced the six surviving Predacons and their Maximal adversaries to take on beast alternate forms. {{storylink|Beast Wars: Transformers video game advertising comic}}

====''Beast Wars: Transformers'' video game====
{{voiceactor|??? (English), ??? (Japanese)}}

Many Beast Wars combatants had managed to construct personal bases, customized to their personal tastes, due to the extended duration of the war. Scorponok built a desert operation in the a desert area, mining Energon. Scorponok joined his fellow Predacons in battling not only the persistent Maximal resistance, but the interdimensional monsters known as the [[Skriix]].

=====Maximal campaign=====
Scorponok's mining operation was causing damage to the environment. A lone Maximal investigated, and after the Maximal traversed the dangerous desert and reached the base, he confronted Scorponok, and his many drones. Notable among the drones under Scorponok's command was a giant, purple, mechanical scorpion. After destroying most of Scorponok's drones, the Maximal needed to battle Scorponok himself. The conflict began outside Scorponok's interior base, a structure protected by a shield and autoguns. Once the shield generators and autoguns were destroyed, the Maximal moved in and forced the Predacon to fall into a canyon. After following his opponent downwards, the Maximal finally killed Scorponok.

=====Predacon Campaign=====
{{Note|Due to the nature of this game, a player may select various individual characters to perform the feats required in every level, and complete the game's narrative. Thus, any playable Maximal can fill the role of protagonist in Maximal Mode, and any playable Predacon can fill the role of protagonist in Predacon Mode. To view the various feats Scorponok can accomplish throughout gameplay in Predacon Mode, it is told on the [[Beast Wars: Transformers (video game)|''Beast Wars'' video game]] page, wherein Scorponok fills the role of the nameless Predacon.}}

===''Duel Fight Transformers Beast Wars''===
Megatron was capable of summoning Scorponok forth to the battlefield in his attempts to acquire the super-powerful [[Energon Quartz]]. {{storylink|Duel Fight Transformers Beast Wars: Beast Warriors' Strongest Decisive Battle|Duel Fight Transformers Beast Wars}}

===''Transformers Legends''===
Scorponok was part of Megatron's forces when a huge earthquake uncovered [[Energon]]. He took part in an ambush of the Maximals, so that the Predacons could gain control of this new resource. {{storylink|Beast Wars (Legends)|Beast Wars}}

===''Transformers: Battle Tactics''===
[[File:BattleTacticsScorponok.jpg|thumb|left|300px]]
Scorponok participated in battles against a variety of opponents, both Autobots and Decepticons. Sometimes there were many of him! He was a Super Rare character available as a reward for the "Beast Wars Episode 2" event. {{storylink|Transformers: Battle Tactics|Battle Tactics}}
{{--}}

===''Transformers: Forged to Fight''===
[[File:Forged_To_Fight_Scorponok.jpg|thumb|300px|Like regular backfire, but ''SPICY!'']]
Scorponok was one of the Predacons pulled from [[Beast Era|his universe]] by the [[Quintesson]]s and forced to fight. He eventually joins the [[You|Commander]]. There are at least a few of him running around!
{{storylink|Transformers: Forged to Fight|Forged to Fight}}
{{--}}

==Toys==
===''Beast Wars''===
[[File:BWtoy-ScorponokMega.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|Admit it, you bought this for the bee.]]
*'''Scorponok''' (Mega Class, [[1996]])
**''Takara ID number'': '''D-2'''
**''Takara release date'': [[1997]]/[[1998]]
**''Accessories'': [[Cyberbee#Toys|Cyberbee drone]], 2 missiles

:Part of the first-year ''[[Beast Wars: Transformers (toyline)|Beast Wars]]'' Mega Class toys, Scorponok transforms into a fairly organic but highly inaccurate black scorpion. The right pincer contains a small, spring-loaded [[Cyberbee|bee drone]] which can be launched, while his left pincer has a spring-loaded double missile launcher activated by pulling the top part of his claw open far enough to trigger the launcher. His tail also has a spring-loaded "stinging" action activated by pushing forward on a lever halfway up the scorpion tail. All three [[gimmick]]s are available in both modes.

:As one of the first toys released in the ''Beast Wars'' line, he features a "[[mutant head]]" gimmick; the halves of his mutant mask clamshell over his robot face from the sides.

: In Japan, Scorponok was initially released without notable changes from the [[Hasbro]] version. In January of 1998, he and most of the rest of the show-cast toys were [[redeco]]ed to be more "show-accurate", with wildly varying degrees of success. Scorponok's black plastic was replaced with a charcoal gray, and the connecting red pieces were colored a lighter shade, almost orange. Both versions also came with a character [[bio]] card.

:One should take care not to stress the pin that holds the cyber bee in his claw, it's fairly frail.

: This mold was later used to make [[Sandstorm (BW)#Toys|Sandstorm]] and [[Double Punch#Beast Wars|Double Punch]].

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/1996/Predacon/Scorponok/scorponok.htm More information on Scorponok at TFU.info]''

{{-}}{{anchor|VS2}}{{anchor|VsScorponok}}
[[File:VS2-PolarClawScorponok.jpg|upright=1.4|thumb|"Arctic Showdown"? Good luck, Scorp.]]
*'''Arctic Showdown: Whiteclaw VS Scorpos''' (Vs set, 1996)
**''ID number'': '''VS-2'''
**''Accessories'': [[Cyberbee#VS2|Cyberbee drone]], 2 missiles

: In Japan, Scorponok was available both as an individual and in an "Arctic Showdown" (北極の対決, ''hokkyoku no taiketsu'') two-pack with [[Polar Claw#VS2|Polar Claw]]. Both toys are identical to their individual releases. It is unknown if the set ever came with the [[redeco]]ed "show-like" version of Scorponok.

: Both toys are packaged in [[beast mode]] with their smaller partners deployed, making it look like the fight isn't going so well for Polar Claw.

{{-}}{{anchor|MCDTM}}{{anchor|McTransmetal}}
[[File:BW-toy ScorponokMcD.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Oo oo. C'mon party people. Oo oo. Put your claws in the air.]]
*'''Scorponok''' (Happy Meal promotion, 1998)
**''McNumber'': '''4'''

: Since Scorponok got killed off in order to introduce [[To sell toys|new prod—er, ''characters'']], he was granted a "[[Transmetal]]" toy as part of the second [[McDonald's]] ''Beast Wars'' Happy Meal promotion. He transforms like every other Scorponok, except his shoulders can't go lower than a few degrees from pointing up, meaning all he can do is "raise the roof." It's cast mostly in gauche magenta and "metallic" gold soft-plastics to prevent little kiddies from breaking it. Like the other McDonald's Transmetals, he lacks a third "vehicle" mode. Unlike the others, he actually bears a passing resemblance to his previous body featured in the ''Beast Wars'' cartoon.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/1998/Predacon/Scorponok/scorponok.htm More information on McDonald's Scorponok at TFU.info]''
{{--}}

===''Combiner Wars''===
[[File:TFSStoy-Scorponok.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6]]
*'''Fractyl with Scorponok''' (TFSS 5.0, [[2016]])
**''Accessories'': Gun

: Part of the fifth and final portion of [[Transformers Figure Subscription Service|TFSS 5.0]] toys, ''[[Combiner Wars (toyline)|Combiner Wars]]'' Scorponok is a [[redeco]] of ''[[Transformers: Generations (toyline)#T30|Generations: Thrilling 30]]'' Legends Class [[Scamper#Generations|Scamper]], and transforms into a six-wheeled Cybertronic sports car with side-mounted cannons. He comes with a gun which can peg onto his hands and back/roof via [[5 mm post]]. Scorponok comes with the Deluxe-sized [[Fractyl#Generations|Fractyl]], who is a redeco of the [[BotCon 2016]] ''Combiner Wars'' [[Terrorsaur (BW)#Generations|Terrorsaur]] figure.

: Fractyl and Scorponok were released alongside [[Lifeline (G1)#Toys|Lifeline]] and [[Quickslinger (G1)#Toys|Quickslinger]].

:This mold also served as the model for [[Metrodash]] in the [[The Road to Legends' Revival Chapter 4: LG-EX Big Powered Prologue Part One|''Legends'' comic]].
{{GenerationsScamper}}
{{--}}

===''War for Cybertron: Kingdom''===
[[File:WFC-Kingdom Deluxe Scorponok.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|"lol" said the Scorpion, "lmao".]]
*'''Predacon Scorponok''' (Deluxe Class, [[2021]])
**''Hasbro ID number'': '''WFC-K23'''
**''TakaraTomy ID number'': '''KD-17'''
**''TakaraTomy release date'': [[January 29]], [[2022]]
**''Accessories'': [[Cyberbee#War for Cybertron: Kingdom|Cyberbee drone]], "Mega Missile"<ref>[[Hasbro Pulse]] [https://hasbropulse.com/products/transformers-generations-war-for-cybertron-kingdom-deluxe-wfc-k23-predacon-scorponok product description]: "Comes with his classic Mega Missile and Cyberbee drone accessories that can be inserted into his claw."</ref>

:Released to commemorate the 25th anniversary of ''[[Beast Wars: Transformers (franchise)|Beast Wars]]'', ''[[War for Cybertron: Kingdom|Kingdom]]'' "Predacon Scorponok" (named as such to distinguish this Scorponok from his [[Scorponok (G1)|namesake]]) transforms from a ''[[Beast Wars: Transformers (cartoon)|Beast Wars]]'' cartoon-accurate robot to a realistic scorpion in 24 steps, albeit in lavender, red, and blue-grey colors. Scorponok also has a pair of missiles (in one piece) and his [[Cyberbee#Generations|Cyberbee]], each with a [[5 mm post]] compatible with the [[C.O.M.B.A.T. System]]/[[F.O.S.S.I.L. Technology]], and can store into each of his claws.

:If the scorpion legs are out of the way, the stinger tail can reach over his head in robot mode, as it features multiple joints. Unfortunately, due to transformation, the stinger tail loses most articulation in beast mode. The toy is a shorter-than-average Deluxe Class toy, as Scorponok, akin to other shorter Deluxes like Cliffjumper or Huffer, was a shorter-than-average character in fiction.

:Much like most of the toyline, Scorponok comes with one of four possible holographic [[Golden Disk (Voyager)|Golden Disk]] cards for his wave, which reveals a [[Source:Golden Disk destinies|possible destiny]] of a key character.

:Initially set for a [[January 29]], 2022 release by TakaraTomy, Scorponok was delayed to March 2022.

:This figure was retooled into ''[[Transformers: Legacy (toyline)|Legacy]]'' [[Sandstorm (BW)#Legacy|Predacon Sandstorm]].
{{--}}

===''Vintage Beast Wars''===
[[File:Vintage-BW-Scorponok-stock-images.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67|The ''most'' accurate version of the original toy you'll ever own.]]
*'''Scorponok''' (2022)
**''Accessories'': [[Cyberbee#Vintage Beast Wars|Cyberbee drone]], 2 missiles

:In celebration of the 25th anniversary of ''Beast Wars'', the original 1996 Mega Class Scorponok was reissued under the ''[[Vintage (Walmart toyline)|Vintage Beast Wars]]'' lineup. Scorponok features all the same accessories and functionality as the original toy but differs in plastic coloration. The biggest difference is the black plastic parts which have been changed to a more [[show-accuracy|cartoon-accurate]] gray.

:This figure has been the second attempt at making the original toy more cartoon-accurate (with the first being the Takara running-change [[variant]] that replaced the black plastic with a charcoal gray) and is currently the only one to achieve a closer accuracy to the cartoon.

:Much like ''Vintage G1'', Scorponok is packaged in a is a box styled after the original ''Beast Wars'' toy packaging, [[package art]] and all. Also similar to ''Vintage G1'', the time disparity since the original release has the toy set at over double the price of the toy's 1996 release, $41.99 versus $15. This figure is exclusive to [[Walmart]] in the United States.
{{--}}

==Merchandise==
===''Beast Wars Movie Coin''===
*'''Beast Wars Movie Coin''' (1997)

:Released only in Japan, Scorponok was one of three characters from Beast Wars to receive a movie coin, the other two being Rattrap and Rhinox.
::*''[http://www.tfmuseum.com/tf-02273.html Scorponok Movie Coin at TFMuseum.com]''
{{--}}

===''Beast Wars Transformers Mutating Card Game''===
[[File:Scorponokmutatingcard.jpg|thumb|upright=1.67]]
*'''Beast Wars Transformers Mutating Card Game''' (1997)

:Scorponok was one of the 24 beast warriors to receive a battle card representation for the Beast Wars [[Beast Wars Transformers Mutating Card Game|card game]].
{{--}}

===Kabaya===
*'''Whiteclaw vs Scorpos''' (candy toy, 1997)
**''ID number:'' '''2'''

:Part of [[Kabaya]]'s ''[[Transformers: Beast Wars Choco|Beast Wars Choco]]'' line of blindpacked [[candy toy]]s, this small soft-rubber figurine was paired with Polar Claw and included a bio card and candy-covered chocolates. The figures were available in either translucent purple or translucent black rubber.
{{-}}

*'''Scorpos''' (candy toy, 1997)
**''ID number:'' '''2'''

: A small PVC Scorponok figurine molded onto an irregularly-shaped stand was released alongside fizzy candy by as part of Kabaya's ''[[Transformers: Beast Wars Ramune|Beast Wars Ramune]]'' line.
{{-}}

==Notes==
[[File:ToyFair96ScorpGriz.jpg|thumb|The most effective stealth ever.]]
*A preliminary name for the character was "'''[[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]]'''".<ref>[https://www.instagram.com/p/CJC-i7cgfHR/ Hasbro concept presentation for McDonald's collaboration, scanned by Instagram user @roboticplanettoys]</ref>
*Scorponok (and fellow Mega Class figure [[Polar Claw#Toys|Polar Claw]]) was first advertised on the back of the [[Optimus Primal (BW)/toys#Toys|Optimus Primal]] versus [[Megatron (BW)/toys#Toys|Megatron]] two-pack at the start of the ''Beast Wars'' line in transparent orange and blue plastic (at right). Another version cast in pink translucent plastic and having the final claw coloration surfaced in 2006, although this could likely be explained by the random plastics used in [[Prototype|test shots]]. Some early animation test shots included on [[Madman Entertainment]]'s Beast Wars Season 2 DVD release show Scorponok in his orange and blue color scheme.
*Scorponok's CGI animation model had an unusual tendency to switch from having yellow-colored optics to red-colored optics at random—sometimes within the same scene of a given episode. Most of the time he had yellow, though.
*In the first few episodes, Scorponok's missiles had Maximal [[Insignia|faction symbols]] on them, a Cybertronian equivalent to carving the name of your next victim on your bullets. Many viewers failed to pick up on this symbolism, though, and they were promptly replaced with Predacon faction symbols to avoid confusion.
*In the first few episodes, Scorponok spoke in a way resembling Waspinator's speech patterns, although with a noticeably increased difficulty in rational thinking, using his own name to refer to himself rather than using pronouns. As the episodes progressed, as Scorponok was forced into more active roles, his speech slowly grew more sophisticated until he was on the same level as most of his fellow Predacons, though his incompetency remained the same.
*In the Japanese dub of ''Beast Wars'', the unique verbal tic assigned to Scorponok was a habit of endlessly chanting ''ora ora ora''. He speaks with a thick American accent, pronouncing Japanese words poorly (particularly his way of announcing "henshin"). Another quality exclusive to the Japanese version of Scorponok is that he can be heard weeping like a child in both "[[Double Jeopardy]]" and "[[Dark Designs]]".
*In the French dub of ''Beast Wars'', Scorponok often punctuates his phrases with "clac clac" (an onomatopoeia for the clapping clamps) at the end or in the middle of his phrases, or while listening to someone talking to him.
*Scorponok's pre-Beast form in "[[Theft of the Golden Disk]]" is a [[redeco|recolor]]ing of ''[[Transformers: Cybertron (toyline)|Cybertron]]'' Scout Class [[Shortround (Cybertron)#Toys|Shortround]]. However, in "[[Dawn of Future's Past]]", his body is based on ''[[Transformers: Energon (toyline)|Energon]]'' Ultra-sized [[Scorponok (Energon)#Toys|Scorponok]]. Even though the latter story is set immediately after the former, there would be no real opportunity for him to change bodies in between.
*Production materials for "Theft of the Golden Disk" gave Scorponok the pre-Earth name of "'''Scorponaut'''".<ref>http://therobotmonster.tumblr.com/post/12292500335/scorponaut-3d-rendering-from-theft-of-the</ref> As this name did not make it into the final product (with Backslash referring to Scorponok by the nickname "Clamps"), the name's [[canon]]icity remains questionable. It ''almost'' got made canon by [[Jim Sorenson]] for ''Beast Wars: Uprising''.<ref>[https://web.archive.org/web/20170218015723/https://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/133737-beast-wars-uprising-ama/?p=3360055 Post by Jim Sorenson in "Beast Wars Uprising: AMA" on The Allspark Forums, 15 October 2016]</ref>
*''Combiner Wars'' Scorponok was a last-minute "accessory" addition to the TFSS, made only after [[Fun Publications]] discovered that they were losing the Club license. The addition was made purely for the sake of thematically completing the crews from the "[[BotCon 2006|Dawn of Future's Past]]" set; had they not been losing the license, he probably would have been delayed a year and made from ''[[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2015 toyline)|Robots in Disguise]]'' Warrior Class [[Bisk (RID)#Warrior|Bisk]] instead.<ref>[https://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/137564-petes-robot-convention-and-twerk-academy/page-43#entry3546705 Post by NightViper (Jesse Wittenrich) on the Allspark Forums, 3 July 2017]</ref>
*In the 2021 ''Beast Wars'' comic, Scorponok's vehicular Cybertronian body shares physical similarities with his aforementioned appearance in "Dawn of Future's Past", but with a different color scheme influenced by his ''Combiner Wars'' toy.<ref>[https://twitter.com/jcburcham/status/1357035373184962561 Josh Burcham on Twitter, 3 February 2021]</ref>

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Scorpos''' (スコルポス ''Sukoruposu'')
*''French:'' '''Scorpinor'''
*''German:'' '''Scorpinok'''
*''Italian:'' '''Scorpionok'''
*''Korean:'' '''Scorpinok''' (스콜피녹 ''Seukolpinog'')
*''Mandarin:'' '''Jù Xiē''' (巨蝎, "Giant Scorpion")
*''Polish:'' '''Skorpinor'''
*''Spanish:'' '''Escorpicón''' (America, "Scorpicon")

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Armada Predacons]]
[[Category:Beast Wars Predacons]]
[[Category:Beast Wars: Uprising Predacons]]
[[Category:Cloud Predacons]]
[[Category:Combiner Wars Predacons]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Decepticons]]
[[Category:IDW (2005) Maximals]]
[[Category:Legends World natives]]
[[Category:McDonald's exclusives]]
[[Category:Multi-component Transformers]]
[[Category:Transmetals]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Kingdom Predacons]]

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2021-09-28T19:56:55Z

Spectre: /* Summary of discussion and vote */

__NEWSECTIONLINK__

This is the place for discussion of topics that affect the entire wiki. For less wide-reaching subjects, either use articles' individual talk pages or [https://discord.gg/N99Bygq our Discord server].

Some topics that would ordinarily be here have merited their own pages:

{{chapters|title=Specific Discussion Subjects|align=left|content=
<div class="list-header">'''Moving From Wikia:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving|Arriving]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving|Leaving]]
* [[Transformers Wiki:Community Portal/Complaints|Complaints]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''New Ad Policy:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki:Ads|Ads]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Bookworm Database-Crash:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central|Damage Control Central]]
* [[Project:Bookworm Crash]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving2|Leaving Take 2]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Server Move:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving2|Arriving Take 2]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Relicensing:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Relicensing|Relicensing]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Dealing With Vandalism:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Vandalism|Vandalism]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''GoBots Sister Wiki:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/GoBots|Discussion on the place of GoBots in this wiki]]
<br/> <div class="list-header">'''Wiki Technical Information:'''</div>
* [[Transformers_Wiki:Tech|A Not So Brief Summary of the Horrible Things That McFly and Co. Have Done To Keep This Wiki From Melting Down]]
}}<br/>

{{:{{FULLPAGENAMEE}}/Archive}}


== Changing format of some older pages. ==

Hey everyone, it had been discussed earlier today on Discord that the G1 [[Wheelie (G1)|Wheelie]] page is in need of a complete revamp. Suggestions had been made to archive the original format of the page to keep the joke alive and available for those who still wish to see and admire it, while starting fresh in our standard character page format. It is nothing against the running joke per se, it mainly boils down to the rhyming starting to take its toll on the information that the page is supposed to present to readers of the wiki. I myself, before joining the wiki and even now, always avoid the page like a plague, as it is hard to navigate and actually obtain any information from, which goes against what the page is intended to do.

That doesn't mean all of the rhyming has to go, it is still welcome in the opening paragraph and image captions, but general consensus on Discord is that it could do to be more informative. I also believe that the long-running joke is starting to take its toll on editors adding any new additions while trying to keep with the rhyming format and quite frankly, I believe that to be another downfall to the article since the wiki is made to be as accessible as possible for anyone to edit and it just adds another layer of complications. I bring this up here rather than on the talk page as it has also been suggested that the same be done to G1 [[Rewind (G1)|Rewind]]'s page too for the same reasons.

I advice that you please make these discussions on the individual talk pages: '''[[Talk:Wheelie (G1)]]''' and '''[[Talk:Rewind (G1)]]'''.

Feel free to bring up any other pages worth making similar changes to '''here''' as there is bound to be others that could do to be looked over too.

Thank you and Happy 2021 to all! -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 05:53, 1 January 2021 (EST)

:'''Just a quick follow up after reading back over what was said on Discord:''' We could possibly keep the pages as is and keep them as the featured articles they are currently, while having a suite with a link to a more informative version, therefore keeping the jokes and also having a variant that actually makes "sense". Funny still wins as the main page and the other can be for readers to actually learn something more about the characters. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 06:39, 1 January 2021 (EST)
::I'm for redoing both into normal prose. Save the jokes for the intro. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 12:36, 1 January 2021 (EST)

== All the human collaborators should have a page ==

The Human collaborators is the concept of [[Human]]s being allied with the [[Decepticon]]s. It exists since the beginning of the brand, brought to existence in the [[Megatron's Master Plan]] Duology from the [[The Transformers (cartoon)|Transformers G1 cartoon]] and appeared for the last time in [[Transformers: Dark of the Moon (film)|Transformers: Dark of the Moon]], With DOTM 10th year anniversary on the horizon, i'm thinking of creating a page for all them. In fact i'm creating a sandbox about it and i want to know if its a good idea to do that or not. --[[User:Cybertron Forever|Cybertron Forever]] ([[User talk:Cybertron Forever|talk]]) 14:21, 18 January 2021 (EST)
:Our existing "Category:Humans" is in pretty bad shape. It's divided into dozens of subcategories already so that the "main" listing is nowhere near a single comprehensive list. Instead people went and added subgroups like "Classified Humans" and "Military Humans" and many many etc. From an educational resource perspective it would probably be more useful to streamline the category we already have. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 14:41, 18 January 2021 (EST)
::Okay i'll streamline the "Category:Humans" but how am i supposed to do that? --[[User:Cybertron Forever|Cybertron Forever]] ([[User talk:Cybertron Forever|talk]]) 15:42, 18 January 2021 (EST)
:::Decepticon human collaborators have been around a lot longer than just season 2 of G1. [[Doctor Arkeville]] was actually the first Decepticon ally. Even then, characters collaborating with Decepticons had been around in the years in between G1 and DOTM. the Marvel G1 comics, Dreamwave comics, IDW comics and such, more than likely had a lot of instances where that was a thing too (I'm not too familiar with a lot of those comics). ''Animated'' had some of the human villains working with the Decepticons on some occassions too.

:::As for the human collaborators page, I don't feel that a separate page needs to be made, there was never a collective group or organization of them, just occassional cases of random people being told what to do while more or less being held at gun point, or on some occassions, given the sweet promise of world domination. I think if anything, Thylacine's idea of making a subcategory would probably be your best bet, but a better name would be "Decepticon allied humans" or something. As far as I'm aware, there is no page for Autobot allied humans (which there are crap tons of), so there is really no point in making one for the Decepticon allies. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 18:10, 18 January 2021 (EST)
:::: It most certainly is not "my idea to make a new subcategory." We have too many subcategories already. Most of them are dumb and are at the expense of having a useful, comprehensive Human category.--[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 21:09, 18 January 2021 (EST)

:There really is little to no point to a page for this concept; a category will do. That'd just be opening up for countless list-pages of random Things People In Fiction Sometimes Do, and this wiki is historically not keen on list pages. There's a lot of stuff characters do/are that don't have pages just because the concept is too vague, too broad, or too obvious that a page would not actually provide any new information (or comedy potential) on how its use within ''Transformers'' fiction is different from the immediately obvious. There's no page for "ninjas" (that just links to the Category), but "Cyber-Ninja Corps", a very specifically-defined group of ninjas, does get a page.
:And... look, not to sound mean, but... if you have no idea how a big major overhauling project might be done, maybe you should leave that task to someone else. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 18:40, 18 January 2021 (EST)

:Besides "bad guys" like Shawn Berger or Doctor Arkeville, does Spike count when he went nuts as Autobot Spike and used Megatron to fire on the Autobots? Or do [[Buster Witwicky (G1)|Buster Witwicky]] and [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Spike]] count when the Autobots had a truce with the Decepticons against a [[Dark Star|cosmically-powered Starscream]]? Or take [[Skywarp (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Skywarp]]: he joined G.I.Joe and worked with them. Does that make all of G.I. Joe human collaborators? I hope not. If someone has to think this hard about who actually belongs to a category, it will actually clutter up the wiki instead of clarify relationships. Everything that ''could'' be grouped doesn't necessarily benefit from a page or category. It may be worth noting briefly ''on individual character pages'' about some characters' tendencies to work with Decepticons. [[User:Prime Radiant|Prime Radiant]] ([[User talk:Prime Radiant|talk]]) 19:31, 18 January 2021 (EST)

:Okay it seems a page won't really be necessary, so i won't do it. But i'm until now trying to know how am i supposed to streamline the "Category:humans"? --[[User:Cybertron Forever|Cybertron Forever]] ([[User talk:Cybertron Forever|talk]]) 22:37, 18 January 2021 (EST)
::Coming up with the answer to your question is the bulk of the task itself. It's a lot of work and there's no immediately obvious and clear approach. If you'd like to try something, use a sandbox and communicate with us here. If you need a lot of guidance, it's best to leave it to someone else like Sipher said. [[User:Prime Radiant|Prime Radiant]] ([[User talk:Prime Radiant|talk]]) 22:14, 19 January 2021 (EST)

::I think i'll create a category called "Human Collaborators", but only after the "Category:humans" is streamlined, which is something someone must do here since i don't know how to do this and by doing so will help this wiki a lot. --[[User:Cybertron Forever|Cybertron Forever]] ([[User talk:Cybertron Forever|talk]]) 19:56, 21 January 2021 (EST)
:::I honestly think that is the ''opposite'' of what we need. The first thing to be done after streamlining should not be the addition of more subcategories. The point has been made that there are too many human subcategories already, and I agree. You seem very intent on specifically adding information about Decepticon-allied humans. Keep in mind that this is not an official faction. This is effectively like creating a category about "Humans With Yellow Boots and Blue Pants and Hard Hats". Yes, that group exists, but unless it's very funny, we don't need it. Going forward, I recommend focusing on contributing to what the wiki lacks (say, by adding information on our pages with stubs) instead of searching for differences without distinction. [[User:Prime Radiant|Prime Radiant]] ([[User talk:Prime Radiant|talk]]) 21:04, 21 January 2021 (EST)

== Finishing the "Story sections" in the Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (PS2/Wii) and (PSP) pages. ==

The story of the PSP and PS2/Wii versions of Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen video game must be concluded and i wanted to do this myself, but i'm having difficulties due to my family and i making preparations to move out. So the question is: Can someone insert the synopsis of the remaining chapters of each version of the game here? Because if you can it will help this wiki a lot. --[[User:Cybertron Forever|Cybertron Forever]] ([[User talk:Cybertron Forever|talk]]) 15:25, 31 January 2021 (EST)
: That is entirely contingent on whether or not any of the regular contributors own the game or a system to play it on. [[User:Grum|Grum]] ([[User talk:Grum|talk]]) 21:07, 31 January 2021 (EST)

What's the matter? can't someone see it on Youtube and then write what they've saw on the articles? Because that's how i got the information about the story of the games i insert here. In fact that's how i got the necessary info to create the [[Quest for Optimus Prime]] and [[MechTech Wars]] online games and to insert the story of [[Transformers: Shadows Rising]]. --[[User:Cybertron Forever|Cybertron Forever]] ([[User talk:Cybertron Forever|talk]]) 21:14, 31 January 2021 (EST)
:You know, petulantly whining at other people to do work there is absolutely no rush on, on a site done on a volunteer basis, doesn't really get any of it done faster. Tends to ''dis''incentivize people to do it, actually. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 01:42, 1 February 2021 (EST)
::The pages have been stubs for this long, I doubt having them being left a little longer will hurt anyone. They're bound to still be there once you're done moving and have more free time on your hands. There's no rush. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 07:33, 1 February 2021 (EST)

== Micro-Sized ==

Hey all, was wondering if we should make a page/archive for the Mini-Con/Micro-Sized profiles from the Collectors' Club website and magazine?

They seem to be rather important pieces of fiction for a lot of those Mini-Cons and I feel we should have some form of proper write ups or a proper link to archives of the profiles themselves at the very least. Half the character pages have the profiles summed up in brief opening paragraphs but some people (me included) may want to read some of the online profiles which the Collectors' Club website doesn't appear to have anymore.

Just an idea I thought might be interesting to look into. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 20:04, 31 January 2021 (EST)

:Yeah, but... is it legal for us to archive that material? I honestly don't know what the current status is of fiction produced under FP (or 3H, for that matter). Does Hasbro "own" it? Does Brian Savage? Does anybody? [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] ([[User talk:Hooper X|talk]]) 12:48, 24 February 2021 (EST)
::Fun Publications produced that material under license from Hasbro and TakaraTomy. I assume Hasbro owns it just as they enable their current comic partner IDW to reprint Marvel and Dreamwave material. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 12:57, 24 February 2021 (EST)

== New signups temporarily suspended ==

New signups have been temporarily suspended due to excessive vandalism. Apologies for the inconvenience. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 04:04, 28 February 2021 (EST)
:And now they should be back on. Thank you for your patience. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 00:46, 7 March 2021 (EST)

== Reducing negative ''Energon'' episode notes. ==

Alrighty, since the wiki has been taking a pretty neutral approach to things over recent years and we had already decided on reducing excessive sarcasm and negativity to the ''Energon'' cartoon page, I feel the episode pages should probably follow suit.

I'm just started my annual rewatch of the show and I'm going to add, subtract and alter things like I did in the ''Armada'' episode pages after each watch. I'm already making a start on removing pieces of sarcasm listed as "trivia" that ''really'' doesn't need to be highlighted and is only there for the sake of bashing the show.

That being said, errors, plotholes, continuity issues etc. are fine, but the "pain count" sections probably should either be removed or be relabelled as "stock phrase count" or something along those lines. I'm personally still alright with the caption jokes and quote jokes, but the excessive "This character sucks because the show sucks." is definitely a no go.

After a disscussion on Discord, it had also been suggested that we list common stock phrases from the Unicron Trilogy on a separate page much like we do for [[Furmanism]]s. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 03:25, 2 March 2021 (EST)
:Before anyone goes to the trouble of creating an entire "Energonisms" page, it is worth examining whether the series is well-known or well-liked enough for that to be worthwhile. Furman wrote hundreds of comics & scripts across multiple series and about 25 years; his repeat phrases are more noticeable and important. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 07:36, 2 March 2021 (EST)
::I still disagree with the concept of "Furmanisms". They're just pulpy phrasing. It's hardly unique to him. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 09:14, 2 March 2021 (EST)
:::I'll be honest, the Furmanisms page is filled with rather common oldschool comicbook phrases that aren't ''really'' unique to him or ''Transformers'' for that matter. You can almost guarantee that those phrases have been used in even older comics from the 60s, like ''X-Men'' for example. Hell, they've possibly been used in material even older than that. I generally stay clear of anything that makes references to that page, because it is full of blurred lines. Perhaps this should also be a topic for discussion. In terms of Energonisms, I personally don't agree with it either, but I thought I better bring it up for those who aren't on Discord.
:::My main concern right now is whether we should remove the "pain count" sections from the episode pages. As I've been binging the show and updating episode info, I've been working around them, but they still hold a heavy tone of negativity while everything else around them has been altered to the neutral tone. I've tried to think of a better title to use in its place, but the further through the episode pages I go, the more excessively negative it seems to get. Yes there are a ''lot'' of stock phrases used, but if people start to include other ones that haven't already been listed—and there are quite a few—pretty soon we're gonna end up with entire dub scripts for the episodes listed lol. As for stock footage counts, it's common in practically every Japanese ''Transformers'' series (From BWII onwards at the very least), so listing them is just another example of adding things to bash the show. Our [[Transformers Wiki:Captions#Captions and jokes we're sick of|captions/jokes policies]] also state that ''Energon'' jokes are pretty much frowned upon by today's wiki standards.
:::As I am writing this post, it has also occured to me that ''Cybertron''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s episode pages have pain counts that follow the same outline too (listing stock phrases and stock footage), so perhaps we should look into removing those for the same reasons. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 06:11, 5 March 2021 (EST)
::::I feel it should be pointed out that many of the stock phrases from Energon ("Uh...", "Huh?" "Let's do it!", "Wait up!" etc.) were first used by the same dubbing team back in Armada. If any new page is going to be created for those phrases, it's only fair that those from Armada (and probably from Cybertron too) be included since those phrases are not exclusive to Energon even if it's in that show that they're the worst offender. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 09:58, 5 March 2021 (EST)
:::::I agree with removing the pain counts and overall negativity from the UT-related pages, while I disagree with creating the "Energonisms" page because that would neuter our efforts to remove said negativity. I also never cared for Furmanisms so I don't even see a reason for that page to still exist tbh. [[User:Fritz|Fritz]] ([[User talk:Fritz|talk]]) 13:11, 5 March 2021 (EST)
::::::I don't think there's a need for Energonisms, but I think Furmanisms need to stay based solely on the fact that they're a known factor and both Furman and other creators have leaned into their existence in self-referential and parodical ways, enough that it makes sense to have a page explaining them. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 13:34, 5 March 2021 (EST)
:::::::It's funny you say that, Fritz. ''Armada'' was the first place to use the stock phrases, yet the episode pages were absent of any pain counts or any real negativity in general. As for ''Cybertron'', listing the pain counts on those pages seems to hold the same weight as the negativity I pruned down on the main ''Armada'' page a couple of weeks ago. They seem to be an outdated case of critisms that were made when the show first came out. In my experience, ''Cybertron'', while still not perfect, still remains the pretty widely enjoyed out of the three shows among the Facebook groups and stuff I've been in.

:::::::At the end of the day, I don't feel it's really the wiki's place to tell people how to feel towards something. It's one thing to mention issues and critisms, but when you're pushing personal opinions onto the reader, making them steer clear of the show entirely instead of letting them form their own opinions, it doesn't really help keep the history of the brand we're supposed to be documenting alive. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 15:28, 5 March 2021 (EST)
::::::::The keyword there is "outdated." Energon is from 2003 and the "pain count" stuff was probably all written in 2007 or so. In 2021 no one is creating canon with ironic joking references to a hypothetical Energonism, and even if they did, the whole source of complaint is that the dialogue is so interchangeable and empty that if someone were to say it in a future series it would probably just be seen as unrelated new bad dialogue. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 15:44, 5 March 2021 (EST)
:::::::::So I guess we're all pretty much on the same page here then. From the response I got on Discord a few days ago and the repsonse here, it seems pretty clear that the "Pain counts" should go. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 16:11, 5 March 2021 (EST)
::::::::::Totally agree with you there, Fanofcoolstuff27. I watched ''Energon'' and ''Cybertron'' for the first time just last year and actually enjoyed the latter a lot. At the time I felt that the pain counts were harming my own enjoyment of reading the wiki after watching each episode and I even consider removing them by myself. So I'm glad this is finally up for debate and other people are agreeing on getting rid of them. --[[User:Fritz|Fritz]] ([[User talk:Fritz|talk]]) 16:27, 5 March 2021 (EST)
I think this kind of went off on a big digression about "Energonisms" and personal liking of the series, but I think this is enough consensus to reduce the negativity of the Energon articles. (The episodes could use better summaries as well.) [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 16:35, 5 March 2021 (EST)
:The pain counts can go, but I'm 100% against removing the overal tone of negativity. Like it or not, Energon is a dull show with an objectively mediocre dub, and consistently remains the most disliked of any televised Transformers cartoon. To try and soften that in the Energon articles almost feels like a disservice to 20 years of near-universal fan rejection. (And the reason we say not to make Energon jokes on the caption page was because they were getting excessive across the whole wiki. That said, while other pages shouldn't be saddled with such jokes, there's no reason to sugarcoat things on the Energon articles themselves.) -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 16:41, 5 March 2021 (EST)
::Agreed, and definitely on that last point. Energon is garbage in any language, and I feel we do a disservice to act like it's not a rushed, cheap, ugly job by the lowest bidder that runs out of plot halfway through its episode count and has to start over even BEFORE you take into account the first-draft English dub. And yes, the captions page remark about it and many other objects of derision is mostly about the ''unoriginality'' and ''over-use'' of adding ''new'' joke captions about it, not "it's wrong". --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 17:35, 5 March 2021 (EST)
:::See, my issue here isn't neccessarily the negativity itself, more the overuse of it. I've already taken it upon myself to remove silly pieces of "trivia" that aren't trivia at all and are more just an attempt to bash a bad show. You can mention all of it's flaws and whatever, there is no problem with that. It's the constant nitpickiness that is added, when just about ''every'' Transformers show has more or less the ''exact'' same issues. The line between openly pointing out issues in one show and turning a blind eye to those same issues in other shows is ''very'' blurred.

:::Given our recent response on Discord towards the removal of "Pain counts" from the Energon episode pages, perhaps we could at least settle with a mid-ground compromise. My proposal: The removal of stock footage from the counts. It's not exclusive to Energon at all, so listing them as a ''bad'' thing builds a pretty poor case. Yeah, there is a ''lot'' of stock footage use, but the show is to sell Transformers toys, so highlighting the brand's main attraction is hardly a crime. BWII, BWN, RID/Car Robots, Robot Masters, Armada/Legends of the Microns, Energon/Super Link, Cybertron/Galaxy Force, Animated, Go!, RID 2015 and I wanna say Cyberverse (?) are all guilty of using stock footage. Only about three of them are English-speaking original shows, while the rest of them are Japanese shows. It's practically been a tradition to include stock footage transformations and combinations at this point. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 18:31, 5 March 2021 (EST)

== Voice actor categorization ==

I really don't like the idea of putting voice actors into company categories based on shows or games they've appeared in (see [[:Category:Activision]] or [[:Category:DreamWorks]] for example). This seems a little disingenuous, considering that none of these are employees of these companies, but rather freelance. Furthermore, this doesn't include all the different shows' production companies, but rather more like picking and choosing at random. If you were to categorize them at all, I would either do so based on the studio the series was recorded at (such as Voicebox or Studiopolis) or make new "(show) voice cast" categories. (But honestly, my first choice would be to not do so at all.) -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 00:17, 6 March 2021 (EST)
:How about we create nested categories such as "Category:Activision freelancers"? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 01:34, 22 March 2021 (EDT)
::"Category:Activision voice actors"? Maybe something similar with other videogames or tv series'/movies? "Category:____ voice actors". [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 02:39, 22 March 2021 (EDT)

== Energon Terrorcons ==

I'm having issues with the way we have the ''Energon'' Terrorcon pages currently set up. The pages have a lot of misinformation being spread within them and between them and I'm not entirely sure how we should handle it.

The show presents three different colour variants/breeds/races of flying Terrorcon: Divebomb, a "Stealth Divebomb" (which is the Command Ravage colour palette placed on Divebomb), and the Shadowhawk Cosmo Type/Blackout colour scheme. I've just gone and removed the stealth colour scheme write ups from Blackout's page as they are clearly not the same thing and it would fall under potential citogenesis.

My proposal for this issue would be to move "Blackout (Terrorcon)" to "Shadowhawk Cosmo Type" and just make mention of the Energon dubs' cock up with the names as a note or that an individual Terrorcon named "Blackout" is also among them. Much like "Command Ravage", "Shadowhawk Cosmo Type" is also an official name and it's my understanding that if Hasbro names aren't available, we generally opt for the Takara names instead (e.g. [[Mirror]]), and because "Blackout" is referred to as an individual rather than a race/breed, it would be hard to use that as an offical English-language designation. I also don't feel that there would be enough to warrant an individual Shadowhawk Cosmo Type page and a Blackout page, as they'd contain most of the same information.

Secondly, I'm wondering if the stealth decoed Divebombs warrant their own page under a nickname title? e.g. [[Watchdog (G1)]]. They are clearly a different breed to the two aforementioned races and with the Command Ravages being present alongside them, it only seems fair to mark them on a separate page too. If others agree, I was thinking maybe "Stealth Divebomb" or something, as the title—unless ''Super Link'' has a better term used in the episode?

Thirdly, and the least important of noting on this list of issues: The Planet Q natives featured in the flashback (before the planet was destroyed) use both the Shadowhawk Cosmo Type model and a recoloured version of the Battle Ravage model in the same colours. Do these Battle Ravage redecos warrant a page or is a note on the respective mold pages enough for them?

Thank Primus that the Insecticons and Cruellocks don't suffer from this issue of multiple breeds/repaints presented on-screen.

Let me know what you think. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 05:49, 10 March 2021 (EST)

:I would make a "Shadowhawk Cosmo Type" article for that color scheme in general, but keep the Blackout article for that specific individual. All of the other weird color schemes like "Shadowhawk Desert Type" could just go on the regular article, with notes pointing out their existence. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:35, 10 March 2021 (EST)

::Sounds like a plan. I'll get a sandbox started for the Cosmo Type Terrorcons. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 15:44, 10 March 2021 (EST)

== Excessively long toy pages ==

Let's face it. A few pages such as "[[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys]]" and "[[Megatron (G1)/toys]]" have become so long that they can slow down a device just to be loaded. Will we allow indefinite expansion such that page scrolling time will balloon further? We need to do some kind of split that will set up a second page for many years to come. Some months back, there was a discussion on the Discord server suggesting the start of ''Generations'' in 2010 as a useful dividing boundary. Thoughts? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 16:38, 13 March 2021 (EST)
:I agree with the split from ''Generations''. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 17:36, 13 March 2021 (EST)
::If no one is against this split, I might make a start on it now because I was editing the G1 Prime page before and I was worried it was going to make Chrome crash with how long it was taking just to load the previews for my edits. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 07:22, 14 April 2021 (EDT)
:Regarding Megatron, I propose splitting out all non-transforming gun mode accessories that were available with other figures into their own page. There are a ''lot'' of those, and they don't need to clutter up a page along with the transforming figures.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 07:59, 30 May 2021 (EDT)

== Template:quote and Template:bigquote ==

Why do we have both of these? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 07:39, 16 March 2021 (EDT)

:the big one looks much better and less confusing. i suggest getting rid of the normal one. --[[User:GobotsFanForever|GobotsFanForever]] ([[User talk:GobotsFanForever|talk]]) 07:48, 16 March 2021 (EDT)
:While I find the big one hideously obnoxious and would suggest getting rid of it.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 11:32, 16 March 2021 (EDT)
:sorry, it turns out that for some reason, the normal quotes were not showing up properly on my computer. but now they are. now the big quotes do seem kinda unnecessary. --[[User:GobotsFanForever|GobotsFanForever]] ([[User talk:GobotsFanForever|talk]]) 21:11, 16 March 2021 (EDT)

== Merge or not to merge the ROTF toyline and N.E.S.T. Global Alliance pages. ==

I think we should merge the [[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (toyline)|ROTF toyline]] and the N.E.S.T. Global Alliance pages, since they're both from the [[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen]] movie, along with the fact that some toys from that [[subline imprint]] are in the ROTF page. Besides, the reason why users here want their pages to be merged is the same from the [[Transformers: Armada (toyline)|Armada]] and The Unicron Battles, which by the time of this talk, they're already merged. --[[User:Cybertron Forever|Cybertron Forever]] ([[User talk: Cybertron Forever|talk]]) 16:52 18 March 2021 (EST)
:I'm down with that. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 02:40, 22 March 2021 (EDT)

==All those Takara BW-era-ish named weapon pages==
So this caught my eye... we have a buncha pages for the various named weapons from the BW2/Neo-era toys, and... do we need them at all? Do these pages actually contain enough unique information to justify them? I mean, we got individual pages for Archadis's "[[Wing Gundread]]s", "[[Wing Bomb]]s" and "[[Founder Shot]]", and not a one of them has anything that the actual Archadis page doesn't cover. Seems like most of these don't have any special effects like the "torque rifle" or "electro-scrambler" and such; it makes more sense to have those pages since the special effects are all right there without having to sift through non-weapon info, which feels like a good resource for writing purposes to see how these special weapons were used. But if they're all just normal old blasters and swords and whatnot, the individual pages are basically just severely chainsawed versions of the character pages. Feels kind of pointless and wasteful of the reader's time to point them at these pages. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 17:27, 30 March 2021 (EDT)
:After going through it all, I'm starting to think this is a valid point. Half of these weapons wouldn't even have enough information to fill a page to be quite honest—and that's after filling the fiction stubs too. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 08:24, 31 March 2021 (EDT)

==New Molds are Not News==
It quickly gets repetitive for toy entries to say such-and-such is a new mold. I think we should have "new mold" be the default, unsaid expectation, instead pointing out when toys are retools / redecos. "Actually a new mold" should be saved for occasions when something looks or is widely perceived to be a remold but actually isn't (i.e. Smokejumper / Energon Starscream). --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 16:03, 7 April 2021 (EDT)
:Agreed.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 16:58, 7 April 2021 (EDT)
::Agreed. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 17:54, 7 April 2021 (EDT)

== Impending upgrade ==

My intention is to attempt an upgrade of the wiki's core software tomorrow. It is not going to be a large jump in versions, so I don't anticipate it will break anything, but you never know. I'll post again here closer to the time. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 05:17, 23 April 2021 (EDT)
:In, let's say, around about three hours. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 00:16, 24 April 2021 (EDT)
::Ten minute warning! --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 02:49, 24 April 2021 (EDT)
All done. Please go about your business. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 03:20, 24 April 2021 (EDT)

== Change to combiner team member lists? ==

Inspired by some comments Chris was pointing out from his new Aerialbot video, I was thinking about how we could better contextualise the various extra/alternate members most combiner teams have wound up with over the years, rather than simply putting them all in a plain list that can, for instance, wrongfully give the impression that Balloon is a noteworthy Aerialbot and not a literal joke. Put together a sandbox to show what I was thinking: [[User:Jalaguy/Sandbox/Aerialbot]] - thoughts? I think this is one of those occasions - like Unicron's history and stuff - where going out-of-universe for a bit is the best way of communicating important context to the reader. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 12:15, 24 April 2021 (EDT)

== Request and code review for adding JS-based tabbed tables ==

A few of us were inspired by the tabbed tables on other wikis. For example, [https://www.khwiki.com/Xehanort the Kingdom Hearts wiki], a main character has tables that contain "Profile" and "Journal" tabs. This request is strictly about tabs, not general infoboxes. I pulled the relevant JS and CSS and created a [[Template:Tab]], and added the custom JS and CSS to my user page, and things seem fine. The tabifier only relies on jQuery, so we don't need to add anything extra. I have videos of the behavior on our Discord too.

Would it be possible for an admin (abates?) to review the proposed additions, and if approved, merge them into the page load?
:JS: https://github.com/tf-wiki-discord/wiki-utils/blob/main/tabber.js
:CSS: https://github.com/tf-wiki-discord/wiki-utils/blob/main/tabber.css

Thanks for reviewing/considering! [[User:Prime Radiant|Prime Radiant]] ([[User talk:Prime Radiant|talk]]) 13:22, 29 April 2021 (EDT)
:What's the intention to use tabs for? My main reservation would be with user experience. E.G. putting stuff behind a tab hides it from a browser search, so if a user googles a term and ends up on a page where the mention of that term is hidden behind a tab, they might not be able to find it. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 16:57, 29 April 2021 (EDT)

::One intended use-case would be supplementary. For most Transformers, I can imagine a "tabbed mainpic", one tab being bot mode and the other being the alt mode. I'm thinking particularly about a ''[[The Transformers Universe|Transformers Universe]]'' or Dreamwave's ''[[Transformers: More than Meets the Eye|More Than Meets the Eye]]'', where bot mode and alt mode are viewable together as a single visual unit. And this is extendable to triple- or multi-changers, or can be ignored for Action Masters. This use is not restricted to mainpic use either. I don't think images of alt modes being hidden behind a tab is worse than things are now. [[User:Saix|Saix]] and [[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] may want to weigh in here. [[User:Prime Radiant|Prime Radiant]] ([[User talk:Prime Radiant|talk]]) 19:42, 29 April 2021 (EDT)

:::This is essentially a prelude to a more specific policy proposal once we get the machinery up and running and start working with it but I believe this concept of a "tabbed image" to display all modes of a character model, toy, etc without compromising readability to be perhaps the most potent utility of this technology. -[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 20:25, 29 April 2021 (EDT)

::::I can see this possibly being useful for toys that end up with multiple modes used within fiction like any of the ''Legends'' and ''Generations Selects'' characters with canonized "fan-modes" that get a little crazy to document in a single image or maybe having the Hasbro and Takara variants in a tabbed system?

::::The only thing I find that could potentially go wrong using a tab system at the top of an article for robot and alt modes, is the fact that G1 characters (as an example)—especially in the JG1 fiction—have been through multiple bodies with multiple vehicle modes. Even G1 Prime hasn't been the same exact flat-nosed cab for the 35+ years between American continuities. So this still kinda falls under the whole "prioritizing one thing over the rest" argument that the info box discussion created on Discord. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 20:42, 29 April 2021 (EDT)

:::::I don't want to get too ahead of ourselves on the specifics of implementation at this juncture but I will say we've gone round on the philosophy of potential "alt mode mainpics" a bit on the Discord and I believe it would be important to emphasize consistency with the character model selected for the bot mode mainpic as opposed to getting lost in the weeds of a character's "one true alt mode" or what have you. -[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 21:29, 29 April 2021 (EDT)

== New bot account on site ==
I wanted to give a heads up that we have a new bot account on the site: [[User:FuncGammaBot]]. This account is owned by the developer of the WikiClientLibrary library that [[User:Teletraan-X]] uses for logging in to the site. The developer asked to use us for testing his code against MediaWiki 1.19 because Fandom no longer has a 1.19 site for them to test against. I consulted with abates and since he had no issues with the developer using us for unit tests, I let them know it was okay. Unit tests are automated code tests that are run to make sure that: A. a new code fix works and B. that said new code fix doesn't break something else. This testing will allow the library to continue workinga and thus Teletraan-X to continue working while on TFWiki is on version 1.19. The account will only be interacting with it's own sandbox and not making any edits to actual content pages or the like. I wanted to let everyone know so they aren't wondering what this weird account is doing only editing sandbox pages. --[[User:Tigerpaw28|Tigerpaw28]] ([[User talk:Tigerpaw28|talk]]) 15:46, 17 May 2021 (EDT)

== Establishing gallery pages for characters ==

So it seems we (and creators) have run into problems with poor references (especially regarding alternate modes) and there's the simple fact that there's a huge lack of ''any'' central resource for official ''Transformers'' renders and art (aka assets)—especially for older media like ''Beast Machines''. In that regard, I'm proposing we create gallery pages for at least characters with multiple bodies and incarnations and also serve as a repository for art. I've created [[User:Saix/Megatron (BW)/gallery|an example for Beast Megatron]] that I hope will illustrate what I imagine those galleries to look like. Any thoughts or concerns about this? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 17:33, 27 May 2021 (EDT)

== Technically correct but needlessly vague section headers, unhelpful "fiction first" format ==

I stumbled across this on the [[Cyclonus's Armada]] page. For reasons unknown to me, the section that covers how Marvel's comic adaptation of the 1986 animated movie handled Cyclonus and "his Armada" is placed under the not-so-obvious header "Marvel future timelines", with a storylink leading to "Judgment Day!", which I have to click in order to find out that it's actually not a UK future timeline story, but the comic adaptation of the movie. This is not helpful. Especially when there's currently still a deeplink further down in the "Origins" section that links to a now-defunct "Marvel The Transformers: The Movie comic adaptation" section.

Also, I feel like the "Cyclonus's Armada" section is suffering from the "fiction first, real life background information later" format. In cases where the subject of a page is a major conundrum that's more notable for the mystery surrounding it than for its fictional portrayal itself, I propose we should ingore the standard and put the background information above the fiction sections in order to make those pages more accessible to casual readers I'm not sure yet if that should be applied to [[Swerve (Chevy)]] as well.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 08:30, 30 May 2021 (EDT)

[[Krunix (G1)]] might also benefit from an "explanation first" format. Not quite sure yet regarding [[Mister Johnson]].--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 08:53, 30 May 2021 (EDT)

== Repurpose notes ==

Does anyone else think it would be a good idea to add a bit to the repurposed toys note to identify where this happened? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 10:09, 9 June 2021 (EDT)
:That is a logical course of action. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 04:26, 18 June 2021 (EDT)

== Beast Era parentheticals ==

As already discussed here on [[Talk:Silverbolt (G1)#Earth Wars BW Silverbolt IS NOT G1 SILVERBOLT|jetliner Silverbolt's talk page]], ''Earth Wars'' has clarified the need to reestablish the original Magnaboss toy trio as their own individuals with separate pages. For some consistency, what is our take on how the parentheticals will work out when Fuzors and Transmetals have not appeared outside the ''Beast Wars'' franchise?

Is this preferable?<br>
Silverbolt (G1), Silverbolt (BW eagle), Silverbolt (BW Fuzor), Prowl (G1), Prowl (BW lion), Prowl (BW Transmetal 2)

Or is this preferable?<br>
Silverbolt (G1), Silverbolt (BW eagle), Silverbolt (Fuzor), Prowl (G1), Prowl (BW lion), Prowl (Transmetal 2)

Should the Fuzor and owl still have "BW"? I point out that such labelling does serve as a handy signal for readers as to which franchise a wiki URL belongs. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 19:20, 12 June 2021 (EDT)
:"(BW Transmetal 2)" is definitely too long. In Owl Prowl's case, he either ought to stay at "Prowl II" (due to the complications of his past, or in consistency with Transmetal 2 Dinobot similarly being at "Dinobot II"), or be moved to either "Prowl (BW owl)", "Prowl (BW TM2)", or just "Prowl (TM2)". Of those choices, I'm leaning towards either "Prowl (BW owl)" since it would be consistent with "Prowl (BW lion), or "Prowl (TM2)" since Transmetals 2 are still just a BW-only thing. The latter would also enable the lion to be as "Prowl (BW)", unless that's too misleading since he isn't the only BW Prowl, in which case "(BW lion)" and "(BW owl)" would be the most concise.
:As for the Silverbolts, I've given my piece about them, but for a recap, I'm for "Silverbolt (BW eagle)" and "Silverbolt (BW Fuzor)", with "Silverbolt (BW)" redirected to the latter. While the Fuzor is unquestionably the more prominent of the two, the eagle came first and was, for a whole year, the only BW Silverbolt in existence at the time. He has every right to the "(BW)" tag just as much as the Fuzor does. Keeping "(BW)" in the title of both makes it immediately clear that both are BW-original characters without ever having to read the article.
:Frankly, I am not a fan of "(Magnaboss)" as a tag since, to the uninformed, "Silverbolt (Magnaboss)" and "Prowl (Magnaboss)" make it look like we're saying that this Silverbolt and this Prowl are each "a Magnaboss", which is misleading for anyone who doesn't know who or what Magnaboss is. Sure, it only takes a second to read their articles, but "(BW eagle)" and (BW lion) are more direct and to the point, instantly getting the message across that they both originated from BW.
:And if the eagle gets to keep "BW" in its tag, then certainly the Fuzor should as well since, as mentioned, he is the more prominent of the two BW Silverbolts and shouldn't be forced to lose his "BW" to the eagle, even if the eagle has just as much right to it. Ergo, they both can share. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 00:51, 13 June 2021 (EDT)
I vote for the first option except for Prowl the Owl, who I think works best as Prowl (BW Owl).
[[User:MrRald|MrRald]] ([[User talk:MrRald|talk]]) 01:34, 13 June 2021 (EDT)
:I'm personally thinking "Prowl (BW)", "Prowl (TM2)", "Silverbolt (eagle)" and "Silverbolt (Fuzor)". To me it just needlessly over complicates things by having "(BW eagle)" and "(BW Fuzor)" because we don't go "[[Swerve (Universe)|Swerve (Universe -insert whatever specifics here-)]]" and "[[Swerve (Chevy)|Swerve (Universe Chevy)]]", we try to keep the character page titles as short and sweet as possible. With that, I'd also propose that we move "Dinobot II" to "Dinobot (TM2)" because I don't recall him ever being referred to by that name in the cartoon and it certainly wasn't the name given to the toy. As far as I can tell that was just something the sourcebook added to differentiate between multiple characters with the same name (e.g. Magnaboss II and Silverbolt II). We've also tried to move away from those sourcebook naming conventions due to a lot of them being incorrect or misleading in the wider scheme of things, especially for the Japanese characters. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 01:48, 13 June 2021 (EDT)
::TM2 Dinobot was referred to as "Dinobot 2" in the Dreamwave Summer Special and as "Dinobot II" in Beast Wars Sourcebook. It's not a thing we made up. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 08:14, 18 June 2021 (EDT)
:I continue to be opposed to inventing "compound tags" that aren't canonical terms. "Magnaboss" is a canonical term, just as much as "Stunticon," and I don't think it's so confusing to potential readers seeing it that they wouldn't think to click the link and understand just how it was possible. My votes: Silverbolt (G1), Silverbolt (Magnaboss), Prowl (Magnaboss), Prowl (TM2), Silverbolt (Fuzor). --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 10:51, 14 June 2021 (EDT)
::As I had just stated on [[Talk:Silver Bolt]] and [[Talk:Prowl (Magnaboss)]], I'm actually in favour of using the "(Magnaboss)" parentheticals for all three of the Magnaboss components, after seeing how it looks as an actual page title. It unifies them and is simple and the most effective imo. I am still 100% against using the animal alt-modes in the titles as it just looks unprofessional and made up, as Thylacine had more or less pointed out. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 05:38, 18 June 2021 (EDT)
:::If we ''really'' have to, we could always make it "(BW Magnaboss)" as a happy medium. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 05:42, 18 June 2021 (EDT)
::::That's redundant. "Magnaboss" is simple and straight to the point. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 10:09, 18 June 2021 (EDT)

== Rethinking Shattered Glass as a franchise/continuity family ==

Between the “Shards” mini-series, the new Generations Selects toys, and an increasing amount of high end collector statues, it seems like the concept of a ''Transformers'' mirror universe isn’t going away any time soon. All mirrorverse fiction since the original comic has latched onto the title “Shattered Glass”, even when that name hasn’t been applied to that particular fiction, creating “ghost” franchises like “Shattered Glass ''Animated''” and “Shattered Glass ''Movie''”. Given that these have no bearing on actual franchises – there’s no “real” “Shattered Glass ''Cybertron''”, for example – I’m proposing that we treat “Shattered Glass” as less of a series of franchises and more as one big continuity family.

It’s true that:

a) continuity families are a fake idea made up by the wiki to allow for easier organisation

b) big concepts that span numerous franchises go on one article, e.g. [[Autobot]], [[Decepticon]], [[Cybertron (planet)]]

c) sometimes two characters from different continuity families share a page when they are either straight up the same guy ([[Side Burn (RID)]], [[Sky-Byte (RID)]]), or when their appearance is so negligible that it’s barely worth splitting them ([[Buckshot]], [[Reachout (TF 2010)]])

Given the above, I propose that all of “Shattered Glass” be treated as one continuity family, with subheadings for G1 (the club fiction, “Expectations”, “Recordicons”, SD SG, “Shards”), ''Animated'' (lithographs, bios), ''Movie'' (''Forged to Fight'', high-end statues/merchandise), and whatever other mirror universes are concerned. Character articles should be moved to (SG) namespaces and merged where appropriate.

I’ve whipped up a rough concept for Optimus Prime in my [[User:TheLastGherkin/Sandbox:Shat|sandbox]]. Let me know what you think of this idea below or on the Discord server. [[User:TheLastGherkin|TheLastGherkin]] ([[User talk:TheLastGherkin|talk]]) 07:29, 14 June 2021 (EDT)
: Absolutely against this. It might be fine for Prime, but there is nothing linking SG Goldbug with SG Animated Bumblebee, for example. We can stand having a few smaller articles, not everything should be merged. We aren't Wikipedia, and I don't want to see this implemented. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 09:54, 14 June 2021 (EDT)
::I kinda like this idea, ''but'' I can also see where this could get ''very'' complicated, ''very'' fast, it's definitely not a "one size fits all" type of solution, as Escargon has stated. If nothing else, I think a continuity family page for SG (if we don't already have one) would be a good idea to have the concept laid out in the one place, since it has been used all across the franchise, but combining character articles and such is definitely looking like a possible issue. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 10:07, 14 June 2021 (EDT)
::Bumblebee would be the exception. An ideal SG Bumblebee article would start with a G1 section to the effect of "Bumblebee was small and looked like Cliffjumper; for more information see Goldbug (SG)" followed by the two relatively similar, quiet-spoken backstabber versions from Animated and Forged to Fight. [[User:TheLastGherkin|TheLastGherkin]] ([[User talk:TheLastGherkin|talk]]) 10:16, 14 June 2021 (EDT)
:::I'm really not sure about that. What's the point of folding them together if you're going to split one of the most prominent ones out? It's all or nothing, in my opinion. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 10:19, 14 June 2021 (EDT)
::::Even more than that, there's characters like Rhinox; there's nothing linking the gag character with the morally ambiguous TransTech one. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 10:22, 14 June 2021 (EDT)
::::And before anyone brings up classic examples like Marvel v Sunbow guys, those were characters based on the same toys. Not quite the same with SG guys. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 10:24, 14 June 2021 (EDT)
:::::The one thing I agree is that we should have a page compiling all Shattered Glass universes and listing them the same way we do with continuity family pages, like [[Movie continuity family]] for example. Put SG G1 as the "major continuity" and the others as minor. We need this page because most (if not all) SG pages direct to [[Transformers: Shattered Glass (franchise)|Shattered Glass (franchise)]] and that's just plain wrong when we're dealing with SG Animated or SG Movie. All character pages should remain separate, but a singular SG page explaining everything is more than needed. --[[User:Fritz|Fritz]] ([[User talk:Fritz|talk]]) 12:54, 14 June 2021 (EDT)
:::::: On that I absolutely agree. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 13:11, 14 June 2021 (EDT)

:Oof, no. Now, "Shattered Glass" might could use a page for it as a CONCEPT, sticking to out-of-universe discussion of it and how it's been applied to stuff outside the original series. But... not this. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 17:19, 14 June 2021 (EDT)
::I mean, sure, we don't have to treat it as "one big continuity", explaining how the concept expanded is enough. I just think that a page simply listing all instances of a new SG-based universe is going to be important as time goes on if the concept keeps getting revisited. ''And'' would make more sense as a linked page than to link SG Movie Optimus to the original SG franchise page when they have no real connection. It's as wrong as if we claimed that "[[Fire Prime]] is an Autobot from the [[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2001 franchise)|RID]] Animated continuity family". Unless we just use the current SG page for these purposes, but I don't see that as the better option. --[[User:Fritz|Fritz]] ([[User talk:Fritz|talk]]) 19:10, 14 June 2021 (EDT)
:::Honestly, if the aim of this is to try and clear up minor pages people don't want, surely it would make more sense to merge the Shattered Glass versions with the ones they're explicitly spinning off from - ie merge SG Animated into Animated pages. (I am not suggesting this as an actual idea.) Shattered Glass is just the transformers name for "evil mirror version" which stuck around, and no-one is saying we should merge all Nemesis Primes from every continuity family together because they share conceptual DNA and a name. [[User:AkibaSilver|AkibaSilver]] ([[User talk:AkibaSilver|talk]]) 19:26, 14 June 2021 (EDT)

== Japanese retail ==

In the process of whipping up a comprehensive list of campaign items (those "buy toy X or Y amount of merchandise and you get this fancy exclusive redeco for free" thingies), the current progress of which can be seen [[User:Nevermore/Sandbox/Campaign item|here]], I've discovered that a lot of the writeups for those individual items are oftentimes based on very rough Google translations, and never fixed.

As a result, I've encountered several instances of the same store being given multiple different names, such as "Eiden", "Ideon" and "Eidon" for Edion (which is the spelling in the company's website URL and official logo), or even worse, "White Peony" and "Shirobotan" (or "Shiro Botan") for Hakubotan (again, the spelling in the company's website URL).

Additionally, there is the occasional bad grammar such as "He was an exclusive in Japan to Edion toy counter" or "Japanese stores like [...] Yamada Denki toy department", sometimes chains like "AEON", "EDION" and "BIC Camera" are spelled in ALLCAPS, and the original writeups made it seem like "Hakuhinkan Toy Park Ginza" and "Shiro Botan Ishinomaki" were both the names of chains with multiple stores, when in fact the stores in question were supposedly specific stores, namely the Hakuhinkan Toy Park main store ''in'' Ginza (Toyko's main shipping district) and the Hakubotan store inside the Aeon mall ''in'' Ishinomaki.

I assume these inconsistencies are the result of different people adding those writeups, but geez, what a mess.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 07:39, 16 June 2021 (EDT)
:AAAAAND it turns out that AEON and JUSCO are one and the same company. JUSCO used to be a subsidiary of the larger AEON orporation, but the JUSCO stores in Japan all changed their name to AEON in 2011.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 08:46, 16 June 2021 (EDT)

==Weapons==
Lately I've been going through (mostly) old Marvel stuff to nail down in-fiction appearances of G1 weapons - see [[Electro-kinetic blaster]], [[Plasma-shell shotgun]], and [[Thermal melter]] for examples. I'm thinking of adding something to the Notes section similar to the "Gadgets and Powers" we do for cartoon episodes but for weapon shout-outs in the comics, perhaps titled "Courtesy of my..." as a more ordered way of keeping track of them. Does anyone have any feelings on that one way or the other? --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee|talk]]) 08:48, 18 June 2021 (EDT)

== Request ==

[[Talk:Transformers Legends (comic)#Controversy section]]-if somebody's willing to take this up, I'd appreciate it. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 14:03, 22 June 2021 (EDT)

==Separate voice actor categories by series?==
This is just an off-the-cuff idea, but would it be useful create categories for voice actors that appear in a specific TF series? For example, Peter Cullen would be under "TF 1984 voice actors" (or however we'd title it) and "Prime voice actors," David Kaye in "Beast Wars voice actors" and "Animated voice actors" and so on and so forth. I'm not suggesting these would replace the "English voice actors" category, they would just be in addition to it. Now, granted, I don't know if we would/should separate any Japanese (and other languages) voice actors and make separate categories for each language, which would probably get out of hand or be too much. Or we just lump the non-English VAs with the English ones for each series. Again, this is just a random idea I had and thought I would put it out there for consideration. I totally understand if there is no need or desire for such a thing to be implemented. [[User:Turborun|Turborun]] ([[User talk:Turborun|talk]]) 20:59, 1 July 2021 (EDT)

== Hershey's Kisses Treasure Surprise ==

I just stumbled across some of these that I had forgotten that I had received for Christmas. They are tiny figurines of TF characters packed with four Hershey's Kisses in a light blue clamshell container with a cardboard label wrapper (white card, printed with yellow background to the logos and pictures). The packaging says "Collect all five!" I have only two, but each had a different figurine: Optimus Prime and Starscream. The packaging also shows Bumblebee. To my eyes, the Starscream looks like the Classics design, but they are pretty generic (and my eyes ain't that great). Has anybody else seen these? Where should they be documented? [[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 09:47, 11 July 2021 (EDT)
:I've seen them around in the occasional CVS as well, actually; the full list is Optimus, Megatron, Bumblebee, Starscream, and Grimlock, and they all seem to be Evergreen/Cyberverse designs. As for where they should go, I'm honestly not sure. Probably a small page of its own similar to Candy Toy, and a quick write-up in each character's toy or merch section, though I'm not sure whether to list them as G1 or Cyberverse. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 11:21, 11 July 2021 (EDT)
::To my understanding we've been putting anything Evergreen-inspired under G1, except when they're specifically labeled as Cyberverse. So if the packaging only says "Transformers" and not "Cyberverse", I think they belong to G1. --[[User:Fritz|Fritz]] ([[User talk:Fritz|talk]]) 12:51, 11 July 2021 (EDT)

== Reintegration of Hasbroverse wiki content ==

I think we should consider migrating the content from the IDW Hasbro Wiki back here. The addition of another wiki made sense as a preemptive measure when the shared universe was first announced and we had no idea how long it was going to run, but with just two years of content, there really didn't end up being all that much, and a sizable chunk of the non-TF books and related content live here already, either fully or partially. The number of links out on [[Rom]]'s page, for example, is rather low. Plus it just looks kinda silly when we have issues [[Wrath of Karza issue 1|#1]], [[Wrath of Karza issue 4|#4]], and [[Wrath of Karza issue 5|#5]] of a series on the wiki, but not {{i|Wrath of Karza issue 2|#2}} or {{i|Wrath of Karza issue 3|#3}}. The only major sticking point is all of the pre-Revolution G.I. Joe issues, which would be a *big* ask to include. I'd be curious to get other folks' thoughts on the matter, though. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 01:16, 23 July 2021 (EDT)

I think the Hasbroverse is Transformers centric enough to be moved to TFwiki, with GI Joe possibly being an exception.
[[User:MrRald|MrRald]] ([[User talk:MrRald|talk]]) 01:26, 23 July 2021 (EDT)
: I’m fine with post-Revolution stuff being incorporated. It still drives me bonkers that the last Visionaries story isn’t covered here despite 95% of that storyline being here. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 02:00, 23 July 2021 (EDT)
::As for pre-Revolution G.I. Joe, we don't include all of Marvel G.I. Joe either despite both the G1 and G2 crossovers. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] ([[User talk:Dark T Zeratul|talk]]) 05:04, 23 July 2021 (EDT)

:::It sorta makes sense now. I doubt there will be an attempt to make another shared universe anytime soon. I assume there's a semi-reliable Joe wiki we could link to for the pre-Revolution/post Transformers material, if necessary. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] ([[User talk:MistaTee|talk]]) 10:06, 23 July 2021 (EDT)
::::Sensible. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 13:06, 23 July 2021 (EDT)
:::::I think the current IDW Hasbroverse wiki could just be converted to solely IDW Joe, since I don't believe the general G.I. Joe wiki is very comprehensive. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 13:25, 23 July 2021 (EDT)
::::::The general GI Joe wiki is nearly moribund. As an admin there, I invite anyone who wants to to come in and help. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 15:58, 23 July 2021 (EDT)
Can't help with this at all but sounds good, have at it [[User:Notsoalex|--notsoalex]] ([[User talk:Notsoalex|talk]]) 00:25, 25 July 2021 (EDT)
:Echoing others that folding in the remainder of the content between Revolution and Unicron is just sensible and we can cross the Joe bridge when we come to it. -[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 10:49, 25 July 2021 (EDT)
I'm gonna leave the discussion open for a few more days to make sure everyone who wants a say can have one, but this seems pretty unanimous so far. That said, while I'm thinking of it, what do we want to do about Jem? The stance on coverage over there is "{{i|Jem and the Holograms (franchise)#Canonicity of Jem in the IDW Hasbro Universe|the characters are canon to Hasbroverse, but the books and stories themselves are not, but we're going to cover them anyway}}". Thus as something that's kinda-sorta-but-not-really related, is that too far outside of scope to carry over, or should those articles be migrated too? -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 20:08, 26 July 2021 (EDT)
:I wouldn't include Jem (or Clue) here. Only media actually in continuity with IDW TF. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 20:52, 26 July 2021 (EDT)

Well, that's good enough for me. I'm starting a [[User:Cyberlink420/IDWSandbox|central hub]] to keep track of all that pages that need to be moved over or merged with existing pages. Please add to this list as you find pages that need migrating or complete the process. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 15:37, 6 August 2021 (EDT)
:'''''Further discussion on this topic has moved to [[User talk:Cyberlink420/IDWSandbox|this page]]; please provide your input.''''' -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 19:57, 6 August 2021 (EDT)

== Pre-''Transformers'' repurposing documentation ==

Hey all, I had been wondering if we should document the repurposings of left over pre-''Transformers'' products in the toy sections instead of the notes sections? Or even both maybe?

I threw together a quick '''[[User:Fanofcoolstuff27/sandbox/Pre-Transformers toys|sandbox]]''' of a couple of ideas I had. The first was just listing them all under the blanket term-header "Pre-''Transformers''" and the other was using their actual franchise of origin as a header (e.g. Diaclone, Micro Change, Microman, etc.).

I just figured that since we document fictional toys of characters that appear in comics etc. under the toy sections, wouldn't it also make sense to add the repurposed Pre-G1 toys? It especially makes sense (to me at least) when a lot of those toys or characters appeared in fiction long before any e-HOBBY, MP or Selects releases of those characters were made, and some of them haven't received official ''Transformers'' updates at all.

Let me know your thoughts. --[[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 00:07, 1 August 2021 (EDT)
:I believe the central debate here will be whether we consider these toys "in-scope." I do think this structure would generally be more user friendly than what we're doing at present if folks do not consider it a bridge too far. With regards to your sandbox, I would say the most sensible title structure would be the bottom one, as there's no sense in playing coy about the names of these toylines, with "Transformers" and "Pre-Transformers" supertitles when applicable. -[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 14:08, 4 August 2021 (EDT)

== Creating a foreign name list ==
A complete list page of all so far known foreign names and phrases. Grouped by continuity families, factions and priority. (First Optimus, Bumblebee, Megatron, Starscream...)
[[User:Kiké Prime|Kiké Prime]] ([[User talk:Kiké Prime|talk]]) 03:50, 6 August 2021 (EDT)
: [[Transformers_Wiki:Policies#We_Hate_Lists]] --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 23:45, 6 August 2021 (EDT)

== Generations subline toy headers on character pages ==

I believe this has received enough support on Discord and on "[[Talk:Transformers: Generations (toyline)]]", but I am reiterating on the Community Portal for everyone in general. It has become clear that Hasbro considers "''Generations''" a catch-all branding for many unrelated lines. Thusly, though I suggested the fix in the first place, it no longer makes sense for us in a post-''Prime Wars Trilogy'' world to lump together many indented subline headers underneath "''Generations''". Concordantly, a lone ''Generations'' figure such as [[Overlord (G1)#Titans Return|''Titans Return'' Overlord]] can afford to lose the "''Generations''" label in favour of "''Titans Return''" alone. As a proof-of-concept of restoring plain chronological series order, I just overhauled "[[Galvatron (G1)/toys]]". This eliminates the ridiculous placement of the ''Generations Selects'' figure above the ''Kingdom'' figure due to technically being labelled on packaging as ''War for Cybertron Trilogy'' in tandem with the HasLab Unicron pack-in minifigure. In addition, the entry for the ''Legends'' figure is physically nearer to the entry for the contemporary ''Titans Return'' counterpart, and ''Kre-O'' can now naturally come in release order before post-''Thrilling 30'' series. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 04:50, 30 August 2021 (EDT)
:That honestly looks so much better. I've gone and done the same with "[[Megatron (G1)/Generations toys]]" so we have an idea on how it would look implemented on split out pages. I've also shifted the G2 Megatron repaints that were originally categorized under "''War for Cybertron: Siege''" and "''War for Cybertron Trilogy''" respectively to the "''Generations Selects''" header with Super Megatron. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 05:21, 30 August 2021 (EDT)
::In addition to simply reorganizing the toy headers, we really ought to be treating "Generations" like we treat "Timelines", only using it for Generations 2010 to Thrilling 30 while everything from Combiner Wars onward should be using their respective line names, including with their own disambigs. There are too many uses of "(Generations)" tags in instances where the much more direct "(CW)", "(TR)", "(POTP)", "(Selects)", "(Siege)", "(Earthrise)", and "(Kingdom)" would be far more concise. Generations stopped being the name of its own line as soon as Combiner Wars took it out of the toy packaging's main title logo and moved it to a tiny little brand logo in the corner.
::Even the tie-in media for Combiner Wars through now never used the "Generations" name. The cartoons were "Transformers: Combiner Wars", "Transformers: Titans Return", "Transformers: Power of the Primes", and "Transformers: War For Cybertron Trilogy". The comic events for Combiner Wars and Titans Return were the same only minus the "Transformers:" part. Even in the TV commercials for each line called them "Transformers: Combiner Wars" and so on, never calling them "Transformers Generations: Combiner Wars" etc.
::These aren't subline imprints, they're their own lines, and ought to be treated as such, right down to having disambiguation tags like "(CW)", "(TR)", "(POTP)", "(Siege)", "(Earthrise)", "(Kingdom)", and "(Selects)". In the cases of FOC and Thrilling 30, those did keep the title as "Transformers: Generations", so those ''were'' subline imprints and should stay as such. It also works to distinguish between Archer Era Generations (a toyline) and Warden Era Generations (an umbrella term/category).
::The current people at Hasbro call these "Generations lines" in the sense that they are each their own line belonging to an umbrella term/category rather than being the same single line that Generations used to be before the changeover of Hasbro teams in 2014-2015. It's basically become how like we would say that Beast Wars, Beast Machines, Japanese Beast Wars, and Car Robots (and arguably Animorphs) are all "Beast Era lines", or like how we'd say Armada, Energon, and Cybertron are all "Unicron Trilogy lines", or like Movie 1, ROTF, DOTM, AOE, TLK, and Bumblebee are all "Movieverse lines". Even things like half of the AOE line and all of Studio Series are officially considered "Generations lines" despite the obvious connotations of "Generations" that most fans do not associate with the Movieverse lines. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 11:26, 30 August 2021 (EDT)
:::I'm fine with changing the section headers and disambigs. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 11:41, 30 August 2021 (EDT)
::::So I'm taking that we're also changing Movieverse toy sections from "Generations" to "Studio Series". I'm down with that. --[[User:Fritz|Fritz]] ([[User talk:Fritz|talk]]) 15:11, 30 August 2021 (EDT)
:::::Hmm, you raise an interesting point. How might we implement something like this to, say, [[Bumblebee (Movie)/toys]], which has multiple different "Generations" headers and sub-headers between one-half of AOE's line, the whole of Studio Series/Movie Edition/Premium Finish, and a portion of Buzzworthy Bumblebee? --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 00:12, 31 August 2021 (EDT)
::::::My solution is, we leave the AOE portion just as it is, as it's already placed separately from the rest of Generations and in the right chronological order, and the "Generations" header is necessary there to separate those toys from the "Robots in Disguise" ones. Studio Series, Movie Edition and Premium Finish should get promoted to their own lines just like CW, TR, POTP etc, and as for Buzzworthy we should just change the "Generations" header to "Studio Series". If we all agree on this, I'd like to help implementing these changes myself. --[[User:Fritz|Fritz]] ([[User talk:Fritz|talk]]) 01:14, 31 August 2021 (EDT)

==How old should my account be?==
To make captions? [[User:Grimbee|Grimbee]] ([[User talk:Grimbee|talk]])
:It's not about age. Captions are meant to be a reward for users who actually put in the hard work adding proper content to the wiki. And considering you've barely contributed (and most of the things you HAVE posted are jokes, one-sentence articles, or talk page messages telling ''other people'' to do things), doing so would be in poor taste at best. Honestly, if you're only here because you want to add captions, you're better off going somewhere else. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 17:30, 6 September 2021 (EDT)

==Streamlining disambig headers==
Several on the Discord have voiced assent, so I am bringing the topic here. Our current system for putting disambig headers is unintuitive and overly complex. It creates situations like movie Sentinel who is stuck at (ROTF) thanks to a one line mention, as well as the completely jumbled mess of Aligned, with character pages at (Exodus) or (WFC) or sometimes just (Aligned) etc.

My proposal is we streamline this by just having everybody at the continuity they hail from, not the piece of it. All movie characters at (Movie) and all Unicron Trilogy characters at (Unicron Trilogy) or possibly (UT). An argument I've seen for the current system is that it specifies which part of the family somebody comes from, but the fiction section already shows what parts they are in.

Characters like RID15 Grimlock or Prime Breakdown would be exceptions to this, of course, potentially maybe suite them with the other of their name in that continuity for convenient wiki searching.
[[User:McBaggins|McBaggins]] ([[User talk:McBaggins|talk]]) 11:15, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
:Oh God a thousand times yes. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 11:19, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
I have advocated for this move before so I vote in favor.
There's also a set precedent with Strongarm (G1) being moved from Strongarm (BWU) for the sake of reader friendliness.
Simplifying the disambigs will reduce the amount of initials and individual disambigs one has to go through when searching a specific character.
[[User:MrRald|MrRald]] ([[User talk:MrRald|talk]]) 11:25, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
:I'm leaning against. Under the current system everything is handled the same way, with a limited number of (G1 Autobot) type clarifiers, but if you go by continuity family first, there are ''so'' many situations that would need further disambiguation that you'd lose all consistency.
:Just think how many Beast Era characters alone reuse G1 character names - you've instantly got huge swathes of characters who are gonna need further disambiguation. So then you potentially have a situation of "Terrorsaur (G1)" versus "Inferno (BW)", where guys originating in the same thing have got a random assortment of disambig tags. So maybe you make an exception for Beast Era and use (BW) and (BM) by default, but then you're starting to get half way back to the current system...
:I'm not really convinced of an "ease of searching" logic because that's not what disambig tags are for, they're just a technical thing because we can't name multiple pages the same thing. If you're looking for a certain Hound, you can just type "Hound" into the search bar and pick the right one off a nice disambig page list, you don't have to try and guess at what the disambig is. (And while it obviously shouldn't be a main reason for any decisions, the amount of link changes and page moves this would require would be absolutely insane.) [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 11:34, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
::I definitely agree with ''not'' throwing BW/BM characters down the G1 hole and then having to build ladders of exceptions back out for every name reuse. If we're going to try this at all, start with something that would need the fewest ad hoc fixes possible. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 12:11, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
:Not voting one way or another, but just wanted to say that the (WFC)/(Prime) and (Movie)/(ROTF)/(DOTM)/(etc) distinctions are the ones that have actually bothered me in the past. These are the ones where many prominent characters from later instalments share pages with super minor ones from the previous instalments. Conversely, I don't like the idea of merging (BW) and (BM). But creating merges for (Aligned) and (Movie) would solve a lot of headaches. (And, as a side note, the acronym WFC refers to SO many things now.) —[[User:The Wadapan|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 11:47, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
::Instead of trying to change ''almost everything'' with a few exceptions, why not just simply zero in on making "(Aligned)" the main exceptional change? Since it's probably the one that needs the treatment of this proposal the most. For the characters who share names, I'd say neither would get to use the "(Aligned)" tag out of fairness. Like how we currently have the two BW Silverbolts at disambigs other than "(BW)". The two Sideswipes would remain at "(WFC)" and "(RID)", for instance. Same with the two Grimlocks, the two Kickbacks, the two Bludgeons, etc. Luckily, I think most shared-name cases are either with equally minor characters or equally major characters, the biggest exception I see being the Prime and COP Predakings. Maybe a suite could link those two together (along with all the other Prime and COP Predacons) since while each is their own separate person the implication of each Prime one being cloned from the COP ones suggests a biological connection between each one. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 11:48, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
::: I think the whole system could use serious overhaul but I definitely see the value in taking baby steps. Aligned seems to be the one that has the worst current system and the easiest fix so I'm all for giving it a shot. If it works, great, if not we've learned something. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 12:00, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
::::Thinking more about this, I'm beginning to feel that maybe not ''every'' single-named Aligned character necessarily needs the "(Aligned)" tag. Some do, certainly, like those who have appeared across nearly all of the fiction spanning all of the eras. Optimus, Bumblebee, Megatron, Starscream, Jazz, who were in all/most of the games, books, ''and'' cartoons should get it. But if someone was only in the games, or only in one cartoon, then maaaaaybe they should be considered less of a priority for the "(Aligned)" tag. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 12:24, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::I think I would prefer just moving over the video game characters (and that dumb pop-up disambig) to "Prime". That was the main spine to Aligned, and it's weird how we got pedantic over video games and pretended they were "franchises". [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 12:32, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
In favor of tackling Aligned first, then thinking about other continuity headings later and separately. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 12:44, 17 September 2021 (EDT)

I just ran the numbers, and if we were to roll with this plan, 296 character pages would need to be moved from their current disambig to "(Aligned)", while 48 would be left as is due to someone or something else with the same name in that continuity. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 13:09, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
:I am for this change. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 18:42, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
::I am down for starting with moving Aligned characters. I think this would help tremendously, especially if it expands to G1 and more (almost made me wish it had a better name but what ya gonna do) [[User:Notsoalex|--notsoalex]] ([[User talk:Notsoalex|talk]]) 15:49, 18 September 2021 (EDT)

I agree with using Alligned as the guinea pig for all the reasons stated above. [[User:MrRald|MrRald]] ([[User talk:MrRald|talk]]) 17:21, 18 September 2021 (EDT)

It sounds like a good idea to me in the long run. Aligned always felt messy as it is now, with so many different potential origin points for characters. I imagine a newer fan might find it confusing.[[User:ParadoxFactor|ParadoxFactor]] ([[User talk:ParadoxFactor|talk]]) 18:07, 18 September 2021 (EDT)

Absolutely ''against'' using "Aligned". It's not an official designation, it's never been an official designation, and while it's entrenched enough that there's little point in expunging all our uses of it, we shouldn't be using it for disambiguations. That said, considering WFOC to be part of the Prime franchise is something I could get behind. As to an overall "disambiguate by continuity family" approach... mmmnnh I'm not dead-set against it, but it's been debated many, many times in the past, and the decision's always come down to "franchise not family". --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 18:54, 18 September 2021 (EDT)
:I think I agree with avoiding "Aligned" for disambigs. Folding WFC, FOC, and COP into Prime would solve a lot of people's issues with the Aligned disambigs, I think. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 20:06, 18 September 2021 (EDT)
::That's treating a symptom and not the disease. Pretending that they're from a different franchise because if you're too strict about which franchises 'count' you get gibberish is a bandaid. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 22:03, 18 September 2021 (EDT)
:::I dunno, WFC, Exodus and Prime were all treated as being part of the same initiative back when they first came out, right? "Prime" is the only part of that with actual franchise branding, so I don't think it's unreasonable to consider them part of the same thing. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 21:15, 19 September 2021 (EDT)
::::It's absolutely not unreasonable to consider them all part of the same thing. But that thing is Aligned, not Prime. WFC was absolutely not Prime branded. And that's the whole point of this. IMO. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 23:01, 19 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::While we're focused on using Aligned as a guinea pig, it should be mentioned, however, "aligned" IS just a word. I watched an interview with FJ Desanto and he mentioned Hasbro wishes Cyberverse and WFC to match up since they are part of an aligned continuity, so key moments should match up like Optimus throwing the Allspark. Idk verbatim but I'm sure I can find it, and I'm SUPER sure they used aligned [[User:Notsoalex|--notsoalex]] ([[User talk:Notsoalex|talk]]) 11:34, 20 September 2021 (EDT)

Hypothetically, potentially, in an imaginary alternate universe... is it possible to switch everything back? The next live-action movie is going to be about Beasts and so is its tie-in media. If they invent Movie Manterror and Movie Tigatron, then we're going to have to disambig the prior characters as being from G1 and not BW. And, uh, no. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 13:41, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:BW is not going to be folded back into G1, period. Any BW characters stay (BW), and in that hypothetical scenario, those pages would get moved to Manterror (BW) and Tigatron (BW). -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 13:46, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
::But then we're using a blatant double standard out of sentimental favoritism, on a huge, un-ignorable, wiki-wide scale. And we shouldn't do that. If we're going to keep the distinctiveness of Beast Wars, we should keep that of Victory. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 14:20, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:::The next movie isn't going to be a Beast Wars movie, though. It's going be a "Rise of the Beasts" movie. Any new Manterror or Tigatron introduced in that movie would have a "(ROTB)" tag. If the movie was to be called "Transformers: Beast Wars", ''then'' we'd have a problem. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 14:26, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
::::The title of the movie isn't the point. Once there is a shared character name, all with that name get disambigs. There is no "default" Inferno. So once we have to disambig everyone effected, either we stay consistent with our Sept2021 system and disambig "old" Tigatron and Manterror as G1, or we work with multiple different systems for the same function on the same wiki based on subjective favoritism mostly shaped by how old people were when they first found the hobby. EDIT: actually it isn't hypothetical, if we're sticking with the Sept2021 system then Quickstrike (BW) and Depth Charge (BW) must now be disambigged as G1, or we're saying after about 20 hours that we're already largely ignoring our new system but still keeping it around to create confusion. Welcome to Hell. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 14:32, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::Huh? Isn't the Beast Era as a whole already treated as a special case, an umbrella thing, in the same vein as say, "Unicron Trilogy"? I know on a strict continuity sense it's all quote unquote Primax, but the point of this move is a "let's not be nerds about this" thing. AOE Lockdown being at Lockdown (ROTF) is kinda weird; that's what this is about. —[[User:The Wadapan|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 15:13, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
::::::Beast Era is definitely a special case, otherwise we would have BW Megatron on a different page than G1 Megatron. (And don't say 'but they met each other' because Transformers meet other versions of themselves all the time.) There are also things like [[Strongarm (G1)]] and I do note that we don't have [[Trypticon (G1)]] under [[Trypticon (Scramble City)]] even though he appeared there before anywhere else. We make exceptions all the time when it makes sense to do so. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 15:27, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::::BW and BM and their Japanese spinoffs are within the G1 continuity family, no more or less than Masterforce is within G1, no more or less than AOE and ROTF are both within Movie. Unicron Trilogy is its own continuity family, like Movie and G1; it is a higher category than Beast Era. I don't think we've ever made a policy of "treating the Beast Era as a special case" to the degree that we dissolve some major franchises of origin but not others. That doesn't make it easier, because it creates ''dozens to hundreds'' of exceptions that everybody has to actively remember forever, and if someone ever asks why we're doing it, the answer is just "We like the cartoon from 1999 better than the cartoon from 2003, and ''make sure you remember that'', maybe tie a rubber band around your finger or make up a little rhyme to help you." '''We should really turn back, gang'''. We just passed Obsidian (G1), Blastcharge (G1), Hamerstrike (G1), Strika (G1), Tankor (G1)....--[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 15:35, 20 September 2021 (EDT)

Okay, so, I was tentatively in favour of the change to the WFC/FOC disambigs on the basis of them being games rather than franchises, but I had forgotten that there were Generations (etc) toys released with that branding. I am very much against disambiguating based on continuity, and ''especially'' using an unofficial name like Aligned for that. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 19:03, 20 September 2021 (EDT)

==Simplifying Japanese toyline disambigs==
Related tangent—an idea I had was to simplify (Headmasters), (Masterforce), (Victory), and (Zone) to just (G1), with obvious exceptions like the Zone faction-switch Microtransformers (and I guess Ricochet since there's already a G1 Ricochet <s>maybe we should move that to Stepper</s>). The same would apply for (BWII) and (BWN) to (BW). Both eras were functionally sold under the general G1 and BW lines by Takara, after all.

And the various (SL), (Adventure), (LOTM), etc disambigs would default to their Hasbro counterpart lines. This thing is being more pedantic than we need to. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:04, 17 September 2021 (EDT)

[[User:Saix/sandbox|Listing of pages with Japanese disambigs.]] [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:49, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
:As someone who has been slowly going through and changing all of our JG1 toy headers to the accurate F!SRLT ones, I am all for this simplification. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 18:41, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
::Likewise. Much more straightforward for the casual reader. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 18:53, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
:https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Star_Saber_(disambiguation)
:So under the proposed system, would it be the main page saying "Star Saber (G1)", nothing changed further? Or would that disambig page now additionally say "''G1'' Star Saber" and "Star Saber, the Supreme Commander from G1"? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 11:59, 18 September 2021 (EDT)
::Either way is fine to me. I'm not that invested in disambiguation wording. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 13:26, 18 September 2021 (EDT)
:This is an obviously good idea. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 17:25, 18 September 2021 (EDT)
This is definitely a change for the better.
[[User:MrRald|MrRald]] ([[User talk:MrRald|talk]]) 17:29, 18 September 2021 (EDT)
:This is a pretty straightforward extension of the toy section streamlining initiative already underway. I echo others that this would absolutely be a win for reader accessibility. No sense hairsplitting by what is essentially country of origin. -[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 18:19, 18 September 2021 (EDT)
:I'm in favour of this, yeah, assuming "if there's a preexisting G1 character of the same name, we keep the JG1 subline disambig". --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 18:49, 18 September 2021 (EDT)

i'm glad i looked away for exactly two days and we've decided to just start recategorizing the entire damn wiki under continuity family rather than franchise of origin --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 19:24, 19 September 2021 (EDT)
:goddamn we deliberated longer on splitting out non-G1 versions of the magnaboss guys... and this was kind of a major-ass overhaul --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 19:29, 19 September 2021 (EDT)
::As I said, I'm in favour of this change — rooted in "Japan treated all the various lines as part of the G1/BW franchises", not "reorganising based on continuity family" — but, yeah, it's been THREE DAYS. We absolutely can't treat "well there wasn't any disagreement" as basis to make these kinds of sweeping changes so quickly. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 21:18, 19 September 2021 (EDT)
While I am in favor of what's been done, it seems to highlight the problem I have with us using Discord. The presentation of this proposal here seemed to me to imply that the discussion on Discord had favored it and it was pretty much good to go. I assumed that Walky and others who had previously opposed such moves had weighed in there. I really don't agree with the idea of discussions that affect the wiki being held off site. It's too "secret cabal" for me. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 09:50, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:THANK YOU. The Discordification of the wiki is one of the worst things to ever happen to it. Every major change made here should be based on a discussion that is held ''here,'' with a transparent and permanent record of it. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 09:55, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
::I made this argument back when major decisions were being made on the Allspark wiki thread. Once the Discord was launched, and I was told major decisions would not be made on another webpage but an entirely different platform I would have to download in order to follow, I chose to quit contributing for a year. I agree that it smells of "secret cabal". Decisions about wiki content and policies should be made on the wiki, visible to everyone. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 10:04, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:::Policy on the Discord has always been that regardless of any discussion there, all major changes should be brought up and discussed here on the talk pages to have everything on record and avoid this very scenario. That's why this thread even exists. The recent moves are not "secret cabal", it's one person rushing into things before due process had a chance to run its course. (And Thylacine and Xaaron, considering I've seen you both post in the AllSpark thread, another source for off-site wiki discussion that now no longer has a record thereof, I don't think you have room to criticize the "Discordization" of the wiki. If you choose to participate in off-site discussion on one site but think another is over the line, that's exclusively on you.) -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 11:25, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
::::I participated in the AllSpark wiki thread because it was often necessary to be involved ''there'' about decisions ''here'', while also advocating that that shouldn't be the case at the same time. I can't point to the occasional rant I had about it on Allspark anymore after their attack, but you can see here in Archive65, "Other versions of character" where I complain about people announcing major changes on Allspark instead of the Community Portal. And, like Thy said, at least I could find the Allspark discussions. I tried to learn Discord during the Allspark/Pete thing, and I found it impossible to find/follow a conversation that was only hours old at the time. So, once the process of off-site discussions was both something I disagreed with AND something I couldn't follow even if I tried, I stopped being involved in the site community. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 12:18, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
::::There was never a major change made based on the AS thread, there ''certainly'' wasn't the pervasive attitude of "Why are you reverting such-and-such, this was already worked out on the Discord" for the AS thread, and also at least the AS thread was in the same format as our wiki pages so you could go back and quickly follow the sequence of a threaded discussion from years ago if you'd wanted to. Stuff on Discord scrolls away if you're not looking and unless someone specifically searches for it they'd never even see the discussion at all. You are correct that the AS thread now has no record - but that is a bug, not a feature, as it was erased along with the entire Allspark board, and I don't expect anyone will try to make a new one, precisely because such vulnerabilities are now obvious. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 11:47, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:::Also, Discord doesn't require you to download anything; you can [https://discord.com/ use the browser-based version] just fine. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 11:36, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
::::I think Discord is a fine place to brainstorm, drum up support for an idea, figure out what some of the pros and cons are of any given proposal. But enthusiastic support for an idea on Discord should not be taken as a reason to bypass discussion here. I'm enthusiastically in favor of this change and even I think it was implemented too quickly. Discord people (of whom I'm one), voicing your support and reasoning there is no substitute for voicing it here. But I'd like to push back on the notion that there's anything secret about it, it's a very open forum and can be fantastic for hashing out half-formed thoughts without having to take such a black-and-white stand on every issue. I think Saix just jumped the gun. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 11:49, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::Just chiming in as one of the Discord mods to say that we have been trying our best to direct important changes here. I think the instantaneous nature of the Discord makes it easy to end up in a rush over things. However, I think the "live" nature of it has genuinely helped reduce the number of heated arguments like those that happen on talkpages/threads, because miscommunications seem to happen less often and can be cleared up faster; it's a shame that it's introduced problems of its own. The intent absolutely isn't to obfuscate! Speaking historically, the reason the wiki Discord was made was to try and merge two groups of editors—those posting in the Allspark thread, and those posting in the Allspark Discord—which, honestly, was a status quo that much more closely (if inadvertently) resembled a secret cabal. The current setup is broadly an improvement over that; it's not perfect, but hopefully people can get used to the "brainstorm there, table here" approach we've been trying to push and we'll see less of these problems over time, rather than more. —[[User:The Wadapan|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 12:40, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
::::::When it comes to off-site discussions, we have always been directed by both the admins of the wiki and the moderators of the Discord server to bring our topics up either here or on the respective talk pages. The input here always gets taken as the "true" vote no matter what, whereas most discussions on Discord are as Jim and Wads have said, just throwing around ideas and brainstorming, which can be very beneficial for filtering out the "dumb" and/or half-formed ideas before presenting the well-thought out ones here. That being said, Saix's actions yesterday should not be taken as the collective work of any off-site discussions. Most of us weren't even aware that he had already started moving stuff until Walky brought up his concerns here after the fact. But yeah, it seems that the Discord's instantaneous real-time reply system has made a few of us forget that talk page and portal discussions aren't as fast and that some users aren't around every hour of every day, leaving us with moments where things get changed a little ''too'' hastily before everyone has had a chance to see it or respond to it. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 12:53, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::::We should probably move all of the talk about off-site discussion to a different header, as it seems we've gone overboard with it. --[[User:DDog|DDog]] ([[User talk:DDog|talk]]) 12:59, 20 September 2021 (EDT)

Okay, just to make things very clear and stop discussions getting mixed up: '''this section is about the proposal to use (G1) disambigs for late-JG1 and (BW) disambigs for BWII/BWN, ''because they are considered the same franchise in Japan'''''. BWII toys were sold under ''Beast Wars: Super Lifeform Transformers'', Victory was sold under ''Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers''. This has nothing to do with the "disambiguate by continuity family" proposal, which is in the section ''above'' this one. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 18:59, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:Also moving Japanese franchise disambigs to their American counterparts (e.g. LOTM to Armada, Adventure to RID2015, etc.), except in instances where two characters with the same name exist. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 19:17, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
::I have reinserted those remarks where they belonged. The "disambig by continuity instead of by franchise because Japan" is no longer a "proposal," ''it has already happened,'' and I think it's a mistake that rather seriously breaks the wiki which is why I asked several times for it to be undone, at least until people could vote on it in the light of day. I do not see "because Japan" as a worthwhile reason. Once we create "Overlord (G1)," there is no internally consistent reason to have a "Quickstrike (BW)." Someone born in 2003 who never heard of ''any'' Transformers pre-Animated will have no idea why we are breaking up certain series or characters, and for them to get it they'll have to learn a lot of background about Transformers ''before they can start actually learning about Transformers.'' Upthread I saw a bunch of people say the equivalent of "Obviously this is a great idea!", with none of them explaining exactly what was so great about it. Would anyone care to start? Preferably after this radical change has been reversed, so people can decide in good faith whether or not it's good instead of feeling like they have to come to terms with a diktat that was forced on them? Thanks. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 19:52, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:::Moving back because you're continuing to miss the point. Moving late JG1 to G1 and BWII/Neo to BW isn't being done by continuity family, it's because they were being sold as G1/BW toys. They're not franchises, they're sublines. By the same token, if we have Overlord (Masterforce), we should move Darksteel (Prime) to Darksteel (Beast Hunters). The treatment of JG1 and JBW as full franchises in place of sublines is rooted in misunderstanding from over a decade ago, and the passage of time has allowed us to gain a better understanding of what these lines actually were. Hence why JG1's and JBW's toyline pages were merged back into their parent toyline pages ''a year ago''. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 20:02, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
::::Also going to point out that Overlord was at Overlord (G1) ''until'' 2009. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 20:03, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::If toy packaging and instructions support "flattening" the G1s and BWs into G1 and BW, then, okay, fine. That IS how we do things. That is the letter of our law. What sent off my alarm bells is the flattening, which felt very "we're changing fundamentally how we're organizing things," away from franchise-of-origin, and also the doing it in two days. I actually didn't see the ACTUAL "let's do this by continuity family" discussion one subheader above until later! Which I guess is alarm bells vindicated, I dunno. And that's a whole other thing. But: It's just, like, if you're going to move literally hundreds of pages... give it more than two days. Give me a heads up, even. (Though I really have a feeling Saix wanted to get this done before I found out. It's a feeling.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 22:25, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
::::::Entirely fair. I will say that I think that, while the pages ''shouldn't'' have been moved to begin with, I don't think we should go through the huge ordeal of moving them back until we ''have'' come to an agreement on this just to prevent a repeated back-and-forth mass-page-move. (Of course, if people agree that the pages should be at (Masterforce) et al, absolutely move them back.) --10:05, 21 September 2021 (EDT)
::::JG1 and JBW series are repeatedly listed as franchises all over this wiki, including on the [[Franchise]] page and on their own pages. If the argument is "the instructions say Japanese-G1-font-then-Victory, so it's just a subline of G1 and not its own thing," then we are still very much hurled into the same problem I've been talking about. The late-G1 "Thunderclash windshield" logo is used on G2 and BW, so Blackarachnia is every bit as G1 as is Deathsaurus. Or are we basing this on ad hoc judgments of how prominent the older logo is, whether it's on the top or the bottom or bigger or smaller or what color they use? I also notice that [[Return of Convoy]] was ''not'' re-disambigged into G1, even though the packaging for [[Grandus (ROC)]] has the same "Fight! etc" livery and proportions as the other JG1 lines. If next week two people started to agitate for BW to get re-tagged as G1 because of the instruction font precedent, our only argument against that would be "No, we like BW too much for that" (but don't worry, we wouldn't be expected to reclassify Beast Machines, because that didn't use the late-G1 font. So Obsidian stays within Beasts, but Blackarachnia doesn't, it's easy to remember, surely friendly to new users....) This was not carefully reasoned through, and anything done by an automated script can be undone the same way. By rights people should have to make a tight and comprehensive argument both of why this change would improve the wiki and why it definitely won't reclassify other long-recognized franchises into mere sublines of G1 that now just get called G1.

::::(EDIT - moving the Overlord/Darksteel point to the end. It seems nearly all of the TF:Prime:Beast Hunters line were clearly designated as such ''except'' for Darksteel and some other Target dudes who were just TF:Beast Hunters. Really don't think people want to argue for dissolving a half-dozen long-recognized franchises because of that. That is literally the opposite of what "exception" means.--[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 10:04, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::For what it's worth, ''Return of Convoy'' was the only real line to branch out from the JG1 toyline, even if just a little. Everything before that was ''strictly'' F!SRLT, with sub-branding used for specific cases (e.g. ''The Headmasters'' for Headmaster characters, including the ones from the Masterforce cartoon, ''Targetmaster'' was used for Targetmaster characters, ''Seacons'' for the Seacons, etc, etc). ''Scramble City'' was the only exception to this, with it being used for Metroplex, Trypticon, Ultra Magnus and Galvatron, instead of just the combiners. ''Super-God Masterforce'', ''Victory'' and ''Zone'' were titles that were never used in the toyline at all. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 10:24, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
::::::I second Thylacine's proposal to include the ROC guys in the move to G1. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 10:26, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::::Oh, I wasn't against a move for the ROC guys to G1, just pointing out the weird branding that was JG1. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 10:29, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
::::::::nobody actually do that for at least 20 seconds --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 10:43, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::::::I didn't move the ROC guys because I forgot about them, not because of any particular reasoning. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 12:17, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
::::::::::Thank you for making that clear. So we are left without the sub-brand / logo issue altogether, back at square one. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 12:57, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::::::::Are we? If the toylines don't have any mention of Masterforce, Victory, Zone et al, that feels like strong evidence for those franchises being part of G1 in Japan, exactly like Beast Hunters. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like your main point of objection is "well, we've always done it like this"... but that was because Western fandom was previously ''unaware'' that JG1 was all one large toyline. I don't think the idea is to change the disambigs while changing nothing else about our coverage; we should probably update ''all'' of the way we cover these sub-series rather than treating them as their own full franchises like we currently do. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 13:35, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
::::::::::::''Popping in out of sequence to say, for future readers, that here is where someone should have doublechecked the assertions that "the toylines don't mention Masterforce, Victory, etc.," and "the toyline only says F!SRLT plus the gimmick subline like Targetmasters." Because it turns out, the Masterforce, Victory, and Zone boxes '''totally do''' say Masterforce, Victory, and Zone on them. I regret that this was not done until several days later.'' --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 16:06, 25 September 2021 (EDT)

::::::::::::Because the ROC thing undermines that. If the other JG1 lines have no unique logos specifically on the boxes and instructions, and that's why they were merged into one big thing, then we've now been told several times that ROC does have those but the person who made the merge only left them out of the merge purely by accident and several pro-mergers are saying ROC should also be merged now. It looks like there isn't clear agreement on what the grounds for inclusion are. I am not against changing "what we've always done" as a matter of pure principle, but treating all of those series the way we treat subline imprints pretty radically changes the meaning of that concept. There are no other sublines (i.e. Powerlinx Battles, Primus Unleashed) that have completely separate storylines, settings, and casts. We'd surely have to keep their write-ups separate anyway, just as we do with the many many Optimus Primes that Hasbro considers to be all the same guy. What is the benefit of the change, to us and our readers? And if we ''are'' including ROC with the logo that was supposedly of equal importance that maybe it shouldn't be included but nevermind, why doesn't this suck in G2 and BW? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 14:55, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::::::::::I actually think that it's debatable whether ROC should be included, same as with Operation Combination. I will note that G2 is "Transformers: G-2" and BW is "Beast Wars: Super Lifeform Transformers"; neither has the "Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers" branding that was given to the entire rest of JG1, which firmly delineates them as separate from the original line. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 15:06, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
::::::::::::::Should have been clearer: my concern is about G2/BW disambigs being tipped into USG1, which would become in-bounds if the supposedly important distinct-toy-branding-of-ROC-keeping-it-out-of-JG1 was decided not to matter anymore. If we're making these judgments based on the level of labeling that makes something a distinct franchise, we need to be consistent. Can we at least agree on that guardrail? I'm still not embracing it - we all know Masterforce et al have their own very distinct logos that we would continue to display - but at least can understand it. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 15:29, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::Note that several Return of Convoy Autobot Micromasters also share the same names as their G1 Decepticon Micromaster counterparts, so many of those won't be receiving the "(G1)" tag anyway. But nonetheless, all of those toys were still sold under the "Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers" toyline logo. The secondary "Return of Convoy" logo they had was no different that the other secondary logos had by previous FSRLTF toys, such as "Scramble City", "The Headmasters", "Targetmaster", and "Godmaster". Thy, it really seems you're only harping on this because you can't grasp the idea that one toyline had five different cartoons in Japan (and another single toyline later had four different cartoons), when the idea of one show per cartoon has only been a thing in Hasbro's markets; a concept that Japan was never beholden to. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 16:14, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::Specifically, the only ROC characters that would be moved are Sky Garry and Grandus. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 17:34, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::::By my read - and please tell me if I got this wrong - Fanofcoolstuff says ROC is distinctive enough that it wouldn't be merged into G1, Riptide says it's a real debate and probably shouldn't merge, Saix said it would have been merged but got left out by accident, and Sabrblade says it's not so distinct after all and "nonetheless" will at least partially merge. And that was all in one day. To be very clear, I don't care about ROC. This is probably the longest conversation about ROC in world history. But since a whole shitton of stuff just got G1-ified, whatever can prevent that suddenly got very important! My point all along has been that if having a distinct-ish logo and storyline can still see a series get disambig merged one level up, then G2 and BW can be disambigged as G1 and we don't really have anything stopping that from happening except personal favoritism. Someone could ask next week "why NOT re-disambig G2 as G1?" and just from today's conversation I really do not see how we would have an answer. What, is the G2 toyline or cartoon more distinct from G1 than Victory was? We need a clear consistent disambig system that we can explain to newcomers under which Victory is G1 now and Beast Wars Neo is BW now but G2 and BW cannot be turned into G1 now. Do we have that system now? If so, what is it based on? If you think it's at all self-evident, it isn't. Maybe I ''can't'' grasp it - but if that's the case, I am not so special that I would expect to be the only one. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 18:16, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::This is all a fair point, and I am sincerely glad for the dissenting opinion! I guess the question is "at what point does the Generation 1 "franchise" stop being a franchise"? In Japan, at least, I would argue that the answer to that question is "when they stopped using Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers"; that seems like the clearest delineation, given that that puts it at the same place we consider to be the dividing line in the US (between the Micromasters and G2). If we consider FSRLTF to be the Japanese name for the G1 franchise, just like "Micron Legend" is to Armada and "Adventure" is to RID15, then there's a clear divider that means G2 and BW can't be considered part of it. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::: I freely admit that I wasn't entirely convinced at first, but after considering the issue for a few days I've ultimately decided that this consolidation is the right move. When the wiki was still taking shape in the late 2000s, individual franchise components were still very insular--chopped up, sequestered away, and written under the assumption that characters and concepts would likely never be revisited in any meaningful way, or backported into American ''Transformers'' culture. Look at [[Deathsaurus (G1)|Deathsaurus]]'s article for a good example of this: not just ''Victory'', but also ''Zone'', Dreamwave, ''Timelines'', ''Wings Universe'', two IDW universes, and even a random cameo in the original Marvel timeline thanks to TF '84. It seems weird to disambiguate by his franchise of origin when almost 64% of the headers in his page have nothing to do with ''Victory'', or even Japanese G1 at all! We don't, for instance, disambiguate [[Windblade (G1)]] by "Windblade (IDW)", even though here's arguably ''more'' instance to do so, particularly when it comes to the hordes of continuity-transplanted characters who keep showing up in stuff like IDW2 and the crossover comics.
::::::::::::::::::: We all know that Hasbro and its licensees don't view ''Transformers'' canon and continuity the same way we do, and this has led to an increasing amount of bleed between different stories--between stuff like IDW's ongoing comic stories freely pulling from whatever catches their fancy, and FunPub stuff like Beast Wars Uprising and AVP, I think that this debate ''should'' probably go beyond the intricacies of packaging minutiae... but, well, now I feel like I'm conflating these two separate proposals together, so for the time being I think that reorganizing the JG1 characters like this is a good thing.[[User:Grum|Grum]] ([[User talk:Grum|talk]]) 18:49, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::::::: It's also worth noting that the [[List of Japanese ID numbers#Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers|ID numbers]] for the toys keep counting up all the way through Return of Convoy, furthering the argument that these are all part of one larger toyline. [[List of Japanese ID numbers#Beast Wars|Same with Beast Wars]]. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 19:00, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::Thy, you keep confusing "G1" the toyline (known in Japan as "Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers") with "G1" the continuity family. G2 and BW are part of the latter, yes, but both are ''not'' part of the former. And "Return of Convoy" is basically a [[subline imprint]], like what "The Unicron Battles" was for Armada. It's the same toyline with just an extra logo. And as Cyberlink says above, it continues the same ID numbering system as the rest of the FSRLTF line. G2 and BW were both separate toylines from G1 in both Japan and in Hasbro's markets. For Japan, neither were "Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: G-2" or "Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Beast Wars", they were just "Transformers: G-2" and "Beast Wars: Super Lifeform Transformers" (losing both the "Fight!" and "Robot" parts of the FSRLTF title, even). And each even used a separate ID numbering system from that of FSRLTF. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 01:45, 23 September 2021 (EDT)
::I just want to make it clear AGAIN that I was never against the move of (ROC) to (G1). I was just simply pointing out how the packaging is ''slightly'' different. I apologize if I made that unclear. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 19:28, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
I want to apologize for igniting this whole thing. My Sunday boredom and rush to get things done got the best of me, and I'm sorry. If it's decided to revert my moves, I'm fully willing to undo all of my edits, when I can get the time. (Sorry for the late reply, I'm very busy with irl stuff for this week and the next.) [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 17:22, 21 September 2021 (EDT)
::I realize most of the conversation was around the JG1 disambig, but I really don't like the suggestion to collapse the other Japanese line disambigs into the US lines. Using Adventure as an example, Cosmos was released in Adventure — he's not an RiD character, having no presence in the RiD version of the line. I know we tend to lean on the US version of things as the source of truth, but this to me feels like it implies something that isn't true. [[User:Spectre|Spectre]] ([[User talk:Spectre|talk]]) 20:41, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
:::Maybe that's the case, but to most users (MD), (SL) and such are going to not mean anything. ''Broadly'' speaking, the "[[Heavy Metal (Energon)]]" is accurate in that the character came from the Japanese counterpart to the Energon line; when you open the page itself it'll explain the specifics of the character's origin more clearly. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 13:39, 23 September 2021 (EDT)
:It's been discovered that, despite the ID numbers restarting, none of the Operation Combination toys actually have an "Operation Combination" logo, just the standard "Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers" logo used by every phase of the line before it. And that the Return of Convoy toys all still have the same "Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers" logo while the secondary "Return of Convoy" logo does not have its own separate "Transformers" part, meaning that that logo is not "Transformers: Return of Convoy" but simply "Return of Convoy". Though, none of the ROC Micromasters can be moved to G1 since that tag is already used by their Hasbro Decepticon counterparts, so it would just be Grandus and Sky Garry. Out of all the Operation Combination toys, only six of them currently use the "(OC)" tag: Sandstorm, Falcon, Circuit, Discharge, Glide, and Windy. And of those six, only the latter three would be moved to "(G1)" since the former three share names with other G1 characters. And I really can't see anyone raising a fuss over Discharge, Glide, and Windy using the "(G1)" tag. Also, Scrash uses "(OC)" since there is an Animated Scrash, but again, no sane person would complain about him becoming "Scrash (G1)". --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 13:14, 24 September 2021 (EDT)
::On that note, as part of this, I think we should consider merging the ROC Micromasters back into their Hasbro counterparts' pages, as they have no independent fiction and are 100% identical to the Hasbro releases save for the faction symbol on their boxes. Nothing says we can't chalk this up to "it's the same guy but they're an Autobot in JG1". -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 13:39, 24 September 2021 (EDT)
:::Feels quite sensible. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 14:17, 24 September 2021 (EDT)
:::Also we should move all the JG1 series to "Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: Whatever", since they all include it as part of the title and we're currently ''very'' inconsistent in its usage. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 17:21, 24 September 2021 (EDT)
::So just to be absolutely clear about what we've determined here, One: The graphic we had listed as the Return of Convoy logo is in truth a modifier on the classic F!SRLT logo in the style of the rest of JG1; Two: ''the original, solo Fight! Super Lifeform Transformer logo continues to appear on toy packaging through Return of Convoy and Operation Combination.'' Operation Combination is the last line where this occurs and can be considered the definitive end of the original F!SRLT branding. Hope this helps clear things up. -[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 13:57, 24 September 2021 (EDT)
:::It would make since to consider everything before G2; G1. -[[User:DDog|DDog]] ([[User talk:DDog|talk]]) 14:37, 24 September 2021 (EDT)
::::I have made some new discoveries on the matter. The FSRLTF, 2010, and Victory cartoons all used the FSRL text in their title logos, while The Headmasters, Masterforce, and Zone do not. Meanwhile, in the next-episode previews for The Headmasters, Masterforce, and Victory, all three omit the FSRL text from their series names in the narration, only calling themselves "Transformers: The Headmasters", "Transformers: Chojin Masterforce", and "Transformers: Victory". Likewise, Zone does not have any FSRL text in either its title logo or its theme song lyrics (just "Transformers: Zone"), but its DVD bonus features do have FSRL text added to the Zone logo. Meanwhile, the Japanese dub of BW refers to itself as "Beast Wars: Super Lifeform Transformers" in both its title logo and theme song lyrics, but just "Beast Wars" in its next-episode previews. BWII's logo reads "Beast Wars II: Super Lifeform Transformers", but its next-episode previews consistently call it "Super Lifeform Transformers: Beast Wars II". Likewise, Neo is called "Super Lifeform Transformers: Beast Wars Neo" in both its title logo and next-episode previews. Metals is "Super Lifeform Transformers: Beast Wars Metals" in its title logo, but just "Beast Wars Metals" in the next-episode previews. The first Metals movie is "Beast Wars: Super Lifeform Transformers - Metals" in its logo, but the characters shout "Beast Wars: Metals". Likewise, the second Metals movie is "Beast Wars: Super Lifeform Transformers - Metals - Convoy Daihenshin!" in its logo, but the characters shout "Beast Wars: Metals - Convoy Daihenshin!" And finally, Returns is "Super Lifeform Transformers: Beast Wars Returns" in its logo while the characters just say "Beast Wars Returns". So, while logos vary, the only shows to actually speak either the FSRL or SRL text are just BWII and Neo (and technically BW but only in its theme song). Meaning that while the franchises are "Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers" (nicknamed "Transformers" for short) and "Beast Wars: Super Lifeform Transformers" (nicknamed "Beast Wars" for short), not all of these shows are necessarily beholden to using the full titles of each franchise along with each respective subheading. So we needn't necessarily have to move Transformers: The Headmasters et al to "Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: The Headmasters" et al. If anything, I'd suggest just leaving out the FSRL text from every JG1 series after 2010, since none of them used it to refer to themselves verbally. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 01:09, 25 September 2021 (EDT)
Did no one look at the back of these JG1/JBW boxes? Because the murals on the back of Masterforce, Victory, and Zone boxes plainly do have the unique Masterforce, Victory, and Zone franchise logos. The stuff repeatedly said to not be on toy product actually is very much there. So, uhhh....--[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 15:16, 25 September 2021 (EDT)
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6Qu8NMnPbX0/U9FNiQT6Z3I/AAAAAAAADxs/c1n1Srl37po/s1600/20140706_125112.jpg
https://tfsource.com/products/view/product_id/1659/
:The back of Overlord's box says Masterforce in Japanese AND English! --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 15:31, 25 September 2021 (EDT)
::That...really doesn't change the fact that the original F!SRLFT logo is still very much front and center on the box. Nor the continued ID numbers between all the lines. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 16:15, 25 September 2021 (EDT)
:::It changes the assertion made about 6 times by multiple merge advocates - and in the "Summary and Vote" section below until it was just struck out a second ago - that there wasn't any unique branding on the toy product and we've only been treating the toylines as separate because of old assumptions and inertia. I will grant that the ID numbers are a piece of evidence in favor of a merge, but it now looks like that's the only one left. Are we going to make a change this big over a checklist? When this merge was already made, was it made based on believing something that isn't true? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 16:29, 25 September 2021 (EDT)
::::Not really. Honestly, it doesn't change much; seems like it's no different a case than 2010, which had the normal logo on the front and the 2010 logo on the back. And we acknowledge that as a subline of G1 while still giving it a franchise page; should the vote pass, the other series would be treated exactly the same. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 16:35, 25 September 2021 (EDT)

:::: I'm comfortable with my vote. I don't think a tiny logo on the back smaller than the team logo is that big a deal. If anything it reinforces the idea of how messy and subjective what constitutes a franchise is. Maybe others might feel differently and change their vote. We'll see.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 16:38, 25 September 2021 (EDT)

:::: I absolutely believe that a logo on the ''back'' of the toy packaging does not outrank the main logo on the front. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 16:55, 25 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::Thinking more about this, the notion of the "media logos" (as I'll call them) being on the back of the boxes doesn't strike me as being all that different from when the original 2010-2011 Transformers: Generations line had secondary "Transformers: War for Cybertron" media logos on its packaging for the figures based on the designs from that video game. In those cases, the media logo was there to say "Hey, the specific Generations figures bearing this second logo represent characters that are also featured in the video game that this other logo is advertising." But it did ''not'' mean that the toys featuring that logo were suddenly part of a toyline named "Transformers: War For Cybertron" or even "Transformers: Generations - War For Cybertron". It just meant that certain toys sold in the "Transformers: Generations" toyline represented characters featured in a contemporary video game called "Transformers: War For Cybertron". Likewise, the media logos on the back of the FSRLTF toys indicated which FSRLTF toys were affiliated with which cartoon and manga of each media logo belonged to. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 18:47, 25 September 2021 (EDT)
::::It's the same kind of thing we've most recently seen in the Cyberverse toyline. There the main franchise named remained "Cyberverse", with added imprints like "Bumblebee: Cyberverse Adventures" or "Dinobot Adventures". The additional logos alongside F!SRLT just denote the subline of that year, like the aforementioned Cyberverse or the three lines within the War for Cybertron Trilogy franchise. --[[User:McBaggins|McBaggins]] ([[User talk:McBaggins|talk]]) 01:30, 26 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::More findings. I just did a binge-watching of almost every Japanese G1 toy commercial that we have covered in our [[Commercial/Japan]] article, and have observed that not every year's commercials actually used the secondary logos for each series. The 1985 and 1986 commercials all use just the standard FSRLTF logo, with the 1986 commercials also using the Scramble City logo for the specific toys that logo pertains to. By 1987, the FSRLTF logo just becomes a standard "Transformers" logo without the FSRL text, with only one 1987 commercial actually using The Headmasters logo (that being the specific Headmasters toy commercial, but not the Fort Max and Scorponok commercial), and none of the 1988 ones using the Masterforce logo. 1989 and 1990, however, DO use the Victory and Zone logos, respectively, while in 1991, only the Sky Garry and Grandus commercials use the Return of Convoy logo while the Star Convoy (ironically) and Sixliner ones do not. The 1992 Sixtrain commercial, meanwhile, goes back to only using the "Transformers" logo. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 09:20, 26 September 2021 (EDT)

===Summary of discussion and vote===
So I'm going to summarise all the information as clearly as I can for everyone to vote on. For clarity I will be referring to the Japanese G1 franchise as "Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers" to distinguish it from "Generation 1" as a more general concept.

'''The "Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers" toyline is unambiguously a single, cohesive toyline.''' Rather than being split into separate lines for each cartoon, it uses specific brandings for different subgroups like Headmasters and Godmasters, akin to the Micro Transformers logo on G1 Micromaster toys. <s>The one exception to this is Return of Convoy, which has its own co-branded logo, but the "Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers" logo is still on the packaging regardless.</s> CLARIFICATION: '''The series logos ''are'' on the packaging, but only on the back, with the exception of Return of Convoy.''' The toy numbering remains consistent up through Return of Convoy before being reset for Operation Combination, but even then the toy packaging didn't actually carry any Operation Combination logos.

Regarding tie-in media, '''the cartoons are packaged individually with their own titles''', though it's worth noting that this also applies to "Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers 2010" (G1 season 3). The manga were also given their individual series' branding (apart from 2010 and Return of Convoy), but were collected as "Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers: The Comics". While the in-series Headmasters and Masterforce title cards don't use "Fight! Super Robot Lifeform", supplementary material for the cartoons does.

If the "Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers" title is treated as the distinguishing factor, '''there is no risk of G2 or Beast Wars also being subsumed.''' Generation 2 was sold in Japan as "Transformers: G-2", while Beast Wars was "Beast Wars: Super Lifeform Transformers".

Lastly, '''all of this also applies to "Beast Wars: Super Lifeform Transformers"'''. Just replace "Victory" and "Masterforce" with "BWII" and "Neo", "2010" with "Metals", and "G-2" with "Car Robots".

With all this taken into account, there seem to be two possible ways to take this:

* '''Keep viewing each of these brandings as their own full-fledged franchise.''' While the toyline does not carry any franchise branding, it can be covered as a single toyline covering multiple franchises; the fact that each year's branding was used across multiple pieces of fiction means it should be treated as the mark of a full franchise.
* '''Treat "Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers" and "Beast Wars: Super Lifeform Transformers" as each being a single franchise, with the individual yearly brandings as subsets of these lines.''' This seems to be how they are considered in Japan: individual components of a single overarching line. The shared branding across fiction is no different to how the "Beast Hunters" branding is shared by [[Transformers: Prime (cartoon)#Season 3: Beast Hunters|''Prime'' Season 3]] and [[Transformers Prime: Beast Hunters (comic)|the IDW comic]].

Please cast your votes below. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 21:32, 24 September 2021 (EDT)

* I vote for '''option two'''. [[User:McBaggins|McBaggins]] ([[User talk:McBaggins|talk]]) 21:35, 24 September 2021 (EDT)
* I vote for '''Option two''' as well. [[User:MrRald|MrRald]] ([[User talk:MrRald|talk]]) 21:37, 24 September 2021 (EDT)
* '''2'''. [[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 21:38, 24 September 2021 (EDT)
* Definitely leaning towards '''Option 2'''. F!SRLF appears on all the toy packaging, and the ID numbers continue on from one another. It's clear Takara thought of them as one franchise. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 21:44, 24 September 2021 (EDT)
* '''Option 2''' seems the most sensible given the information presented. -[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 21:46, 24 September 2021 (EDT)
* '''Option 2''' [[User:Grum|Grum]] ([[User talk:Grum|talk]]) 22:01, 24 September 2021 (EDT)
* '''Option 2'''. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 22:30, 24 September 2021 (EDT)
* '''Option 2''' -- [[User:Fritz|Fritz]] ([[User talk:Fritz|talk]]) 23:10, 24 September 2021 (EDT)
* '''Option 2'''. Each is one franchise with mutliple cartoons (I've posted some new findings above) --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 01:09, 25 September 2021 (EDT)
* '''Option 2''' -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] ([[User talk:Dark T Zeratul|talk]]) 04:39, 25 September 2021 (EDT)
* I'm also going with '''option 2'''. The fact that the series logos are on the backs of the toy packaging is arguably more evidence that we should treat them as we do other subline imprints, in my view. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 16:18, 25 September 2021 (EDT)
* '''Option 2''' [[User:Notsoalex|--notsoalex]] ([[User talk:Notsoalex|talk]]) 16:41, 25 September 2021 (EDT)
* '''2''', if we're going by the wiki's pre-established rules of (generally) adhering to logos on packaging and instructions. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 15:45, 26 September 2021 (EDT)
* '''Option 1''', though that's more of a gut feeling.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 18:18, 26 September 2021 (EDT)
* '''Option 1'''. "There are no logos" became "Logos on the back don't count" a bit too quickly for my comfort. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 19:17, 26 September 2021 (EDT)
* '''Option 1'''. I'm uncomfortable with the combination of being extremely literal in one regard — "All JG1 is a single line known as Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers" — while using fuzzy terminology in another — "Generation 1 refers to everything pre-G2 in all territories". I feel like this decision was made hastily and the proposal is not balancing accuracy and clarity in a thoughtful enough way for me at this stage. -- [[User:Spectre|Spectre]] ([[User talk:Spectre|talk]]) 15:56, 28 September 2021 (EDT)

== Disambigs for TM2 characters ==

While we're still on the topic of page moves and titles and what not, I figured I should bring up these two cases that have bugged me for a while now.

I personally feel that we should move "[[Dinobot II]]" and "[[Prowl II]]" to "Dinobot (TM2)" and "Prowl (TM2)", respectively. These two were not given the Roman numeral suffix things (for lack of a better term) until the IDW Beast Wars Sourcebooks which were written what, 10 or so years after the fact?

Both the toy packaging for the pair and their bios never gave them that title and I'm pretty sure Dinobot was never called "Dinobot II" in the BW cartoon (granted, I haven't watched it in about 2 years, so I could be wrong). It just feels incredibly weird that we're naming these two after the Sourcebook names and not their original names.

[[User:MrRald|MrRald]] had also brought up on Discord that the fiction surrounding Prowl II and Prowl (TM2) should be split, but I personally think that we should keep them together as it's the same character, just with a different origin, which is no different to say any G1 character between Marvel, IDW and the cartoon, etc. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 22:41, 19 September 2021 (EDT)
:I agree with this change because the use of Dinobot II and Prowl II in the titles gives the wrong idea that these names have been used much more often than they actually have. Also there's always the possibility that someone will use those names in an official capacity just because they saw them on this wiki, and I think that's something we should try to avoid. --[[User:Fritz|Fritz]] ([[User talk:Fritz|talk]]) 00:02, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
::The Sourcebook didn't even use the "II" in anything outside of the page titles and the Credits Index. Not in any of the biographical information for any of the "II" characters. In fact, the Credits Index goes the extra mile of placing each "II" inside a set of parentheses like "(II)", as if to say "These are each the second character listed with a shared name, but the 'II' isn't actually part of their names." --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 00:48, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:Prowl-II-the-owl-and-Binaltec-car was such a chore to put together, the only thing worse would be finding a way to take it apart - and both halves would need to refer to one another so much they would take up more space and cause more confusion than the single article currently is. Let's leave it alone. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 09:52, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
::Yeah, as stated above I'm personally not for a split. I think MrRald also has plans on bringing it up on the talk page itself, so I'll leave that discussion more up to him to bring up. But what's your thoughts on the moves to "(TM2)"? -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 11:35, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:::Are either "Dinobot II" or "Prowl II" canonically-published names, or are they convenient shorthand this wiki made up? [[Beast Wars Universe]] says "TM2 Dinobot", the [[BotCon 2002]] postcard set says "Dinobot (Transmetal 2)". I don't own BW Sourcebook. In general I side with names that are official (even if obscure) over those we made up. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 13:03, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
::::They were used officially, but only in the Sourcebooks for the most part. In Prowl's case, the Sourcebook use was kinda pseudo-retconned into being the JG1 version of the character, with AVP building onto the story and solidifying him as part of the Binaltech stuff. But other than that, both prowl and Dinobot have appeared in more pieces of fiction without the "II" in the name. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 13:30, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::Turns out "Dinobot II" was used in Earth Wars. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 17:52, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::Before Dinobot II with the Roman Numeral in the Sourcebook, Dinobot 2 was used in the Dreamwave Summer Special title page for "Ain't no Rat." --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] ([[User talk:KilMichaelMcC|talk]]) 13:10, 23 September 2021 (EDT)

== So, about 1995 Generation 2... ==
At the risk of opening yer another can of worms, what about the 1995 figures? In the United States and Canada, the packaging had dropped the "Generation 2" branding by that point, though the European releases were still "Generation 2".--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 04:51, 27 September 2021 (EDT)
:Feels like if Europe was still branding them as G2, and everyone else was just not branding them at all, they'd still be G2. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] ([[User talk:Dark T Zeratul|talk]]) 12:45, 28 September 2021 (EDT)
::The real problem is the 1993 European releases with G2 faction symbols but not the G2 logo. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 13:23, 28 September 2021 (EDT)

MediaWiki talk:Community Portal

2021-09-23T00:41:48Z

Spectre: /* Simplifying Japanese toyline disambigs */

__NEWSECTIONLINK__

This is the place for discussion of topics that affect the entire wiki. For less wide-reaching subjects, either use articles' individual talk pages or [https://discord.gg/N99Bygq our Discord server].

Some topics that would ordinarily be here have merited their own pages:

{{chapters|title=Specific Discussion Subjects|align=left|content=
<div class="list-header">'''Moving From Wikia:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving|Arriving]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving|Leaving]]
* [[Transformers Wiki:Community Portal/Complaints|Complaints]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''New Ad Policy:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki:Ads|Ads]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Bookworm Database-Crash:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central|Damage Control Central]]
* [[Project:Bookworm Crash]]
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving2|Leaving Take 2]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Server Move:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving2|Arriving Take 2]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Relicensing:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Relicensing|Relicensing]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''Dealing With Vandalism:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Vandalism|Vandalism]]
<br/><div class="list-header">'''GoBots Sister Wiki:'''</div>
* [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/GoBots|Discussion on the place of GoBots in this wiki]]
<br/> <div class="list-header">'''Wiki Technical Information:'''</div>
* [[Transformers_Wiki:Tech|A Not So Brief Summary of the Horrible Things That McFly and Co. Have Done To Keep This Wiki From Melting Down]]
}}<br/>

{{:{{FULLPAGENAMEE}}/Archive}}


==User account created, but no activity==
Something I've noticed when I'd pop in every once in awhile when checking the Recent Changes/User Creation Log is that once a new user account has been created, there's no activity. Granted, some have been blocked for various reasons (mostly the autoblocks), but I wonder whether there should be anything done to the others (aside of just leaving them alone). Like, delete the username after a certain period of no activity, or would that affect the IP address? I'm reminded of how one user had a history of creating and then camping subreddits, which was against Reddit's TOS. -- [[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] ([[User talk:Lonegamer78|talk]]) 00:12, 7 January 2020 (EST)
:There is a maintenance script we can run which deletes old users with no edits to their name, ISTR. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 17:20, 7 January 2020 (EST)
::That sounds good. -- [[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] ([[User talk:Lonegamer78|talk]]) 20:26, 10 January 2020 (EST)

== Minor skin tweak ==

The latest version of Firefox was making the scrollbars look funky and blue on our site, so I have put some css in to fix them. Hopefully this should not affect any other browsers, but please let me know if you're using Chrome or IE7 or something and it is causing a problem. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 20:20, 8 January 2020 (EST)

== 2007 Movie Universe and 2018 Movie Universe ==

Since Bumblebee is officially a reboot, will we be separating the sections on the movies similar to what has been recently done with the IDW 2005 and 2019 sections? --[[User:Waspscream|Waspscream]] ([[User talk:Waspscream|talk]]) 21:36, 16 January 2020 (EST)
: No, because we don't know it's a proper reboot yet, so we have no reason to do so. This has been discussed at length already. [[Misconceptions and urban legends about Transformers#Bumblebee|Please read this.]] -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 23:05, 16 January 2020 (EST)

== Prime Wars Placement ==

I'm probably being an idiot and there's a perfectly valid reason for it, but why aren't the Prime Wars Trilogy bios placed in character's G1 Cartoon sections? Is it the slight IDW influence, or not enough evidence that they belong there? --[[User:Waspscream|Waspscream]] ([[User talk:Waspscream|talk]]) 23:16, 26 January 2020 (EST)
:The Prime Wars Trilogy is a completely separate continuity from the G1 cartoon. The G1 Cartoon sections are for information detailing a character's exploits in continuities tied directly or nearly directly to that 1984-1987 animated series produced by Marvel Productions and Sunbow Productions, which the Prime Wars Trilogy has no connection to and therefore gets it own separate section on each character's page. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 23:25, 26 January 2020 (EST)
::I could agree to that back when Combiner Wars was out, but by the time of Power Of The Primes, there were a lot of additions, such as Megatron once having been Galvatron and Unicron stuck as a head, that seem to attempt to connect it to the cartoon. At the very least, it's somewhat tied to the cartoon, even with many incongruities. -- [[User:Waspscream|Waspscream]] ([[User talk:Waspscream|talk]]) 16:20, 27 January 2020 (EST)
:::It's really not. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 16:41, 27 January 2020 (EST)
:::"Things are referencing the first really huge piece of popular media most people are familiar with" is not exactly slam-dunk proof of "actually part of the same timeline". --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 21:13, 27 January 2020 (EST)
:::: Admittedly, I didn't explain my opinions very well, but while Megatron being Galvatron is common, the use of it here seems like an attempt to reconcile the series as somewhat connected to the G1 cartoon, on a similar level to Beast Wars, I guess. There were other examples, that was just the first that came to mind. There isn't really any true proof for it, so I guess I'll leave it at that. I guess the entire thing is in a grey area free for personal interpretation of where it could belong. I'm kinda new around here, and I'm not trying to start an argument, just get some clarification about what belongs where. -- [[User:Waspscream|Waspscream]] ([[User talk:Waspscream|talk]]) 21:38, 27 January 2020 (EST)
:::::Power of the Primes also hinted that when Unicron turned Megatron into Galvatron, it was by the power of the Matrix of Chaos, a device that did not exist in the G1 cartoon and thus which was not used by Unicron to turn Megatron into Galvatron in the 1986 movie. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 00:39, 28 January 2020 (EST)
::::::And that Unicron was destroyed in ancient times by the Requiem Blaster, a thing that very much did not happen in the original cartoon. (And for the record, we don't treat Beast Wars as a direct cartoon followup either since it blends elements from both Marvel and Sunbow.) -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 00:57, 28 January 2020 (EST)
::::::: I am aware of that. -- [[User:Waspscream|Waspscream]] ([[User talk:Waspscream|talk]]) 22:13, 29 January 2020 (EST)
:::::::Given the prominence of the G1 cartoon, it is not surprising that so many later stories make reference to it or homage it. But that's all that this is, referencing and homages. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 08:13, 28 January 2020 (EST)

== Franchise pages ==

I wanted to float an idea regarding our franchise pages. They're typically pretty sparse and some which aren't are just plain paragraphs of text with lists. What do people think about formatting the franchise pages more like the main page? I've made an [[User:Abates/Franchise sandbox|example sandbox]]. I used Rescue Bots Academy as an example, since we currently have it linked on the sidebar, so there's boxes for the cartoon, toyline, major characters, and a featured article (which I think would be best as a random article rather than manually being changed each month). --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 19:46, 20 March 2020 (EDT)
:I like this a LOT. That said, how would this template handle pages with way more information like Beast Wars? Also, a suggestion made on the Discord was for the featured article to change between premade selections similar to the [[Main Page/disambig|main page disambiguation template]] or [[multilingual packaging]]. Would that be worth exploring? -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 20:34, 20 March 2020 (EDT)
::That was my thinking as to how the featured article section would work. As for something like Beast Wars, probably everything below, say, "A dramatic change" could stay as is. The idea is to present the main info in a more appealing manner, but there's nothing to say we couldn't have more conventional sections further down. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 21:39, 20 March 2020 (EDT)

== Source namespace ==

We currently have a bunch of source documents which have names like "Angry Birds Transformers bios/src". It's possible to create a Source namespace so instead they would be at names like "Source:Angry Birds Transformers bios".

Advantages: Everything that's an official document would be all in one namespace, searchable independently of mainspace articles.<br />
Disadvantages: We wouldn't be able to have a namespace article with a title starting "Source:", but I think it's unlikely to be an issue. We have [[Source]] which is a redirect, but I don't believe it would be affected.

What does everyone think? --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 19:32, 26 April 2020 (EDT)
:Makes sense to me. There's a lot of online-only text that's disappeared from official websites (Legends card game, Robotmasters, Cloud, lots of bios, etc.) Preserving this stuff would help in the future. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 19:38, 26 April 2020 (EDT)
::I'm in agreement. I think the pros heavily outweigh the cons, and I'm sure we can find a workaround if there's a story title that starts with "Source" down the line. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 19:57, 26 April 2020 (EDT)
:::If there aren't any objections then, I'll get it set up! --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 01:55, 27 April 2020 (EDT)

== Should we add a category for "Toy of the Year" winners of the Hall of fame? ==

Seeing that we already have categories for "Hall of Fame characters," and "Hall of Fame creators," we probably should make a category for the "Toy(s) of the Year(s)." Just my opinion. [[User:DDog|DDog]] ([[User talk:DDog|talk]]) 17:03, 1 May 2020 (EDT)

== Minor edits ==

I just wanted to post a reminder about minor edits, because I've seen people mark edits as minor which I don't think should be considered minor. Minor edits are things like spelling and grammar corrections, formatting corrections, and the like. If you're adding an entire sentence to an article or a whole new note, it shouldn't be marked minor. We've got a brief section on this here: [[Help:Style guide#Minor and major edits]]. I'm not looking to single anyone out, just post a reminder because it seems to be more common recently. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 19:09, 3 May 2020 (EDT)

=="Japanese ID number"==
I dunno if "uncomfortable" is the right word, but "Japanese ID number" feels off for a variety of reasons, including these toys not being sold ONLY in Japan. I'm increasingly thinking there's a better option for this info in the toy entries.
*For entries that cover both the Hasbro and Takara versions, "Takara ID number" works better. (Conversely, those handful of Hasbro toys w/ numbers, "Hasbro ID number")
*For entries about toys ONLY released in Takara lines, just plain old "ID number" should suffice.
I realize this is... a buttload of changes across the wiki, and not a top priority or anything, but maybe something folks can pick up here and there while making other edits in the relevant sections. Thoughts? --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 00:50, 5 May 2020 (EDT)

== Do Euro-Classics get their own listing or not? ==
We are currently very inconsistent on whether [[Classics (Europe)]] counts as a G1 toy release as distinct as a Targetmaster or Pretender upgrade. Look at [[Sunstreaker (G1)/toys]] and [[Prowl (G1)/toys]] and compare to [[Sludge (G1)]] or [[Wheeljack (G1)/toys]]. I think they should all be listed distinctly - that the Sunstreaker approach is right. Is there any reason why we wouldn't do this? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 20:26, 5 May 2020 (EDT)
:I think it's just that no one has bothered to do it. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 21:07, 5 May 2020 (EDT)
::Pretty much. A LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT of old stuff on this wiki -particularly the toy entries- needs to be dusted off and looked at and brought up to modern standards/consistency. But that's a pretty dang involved process and while it seems many of us have more spare time now, it's still... a kinda draining, droning way to spend it. (I've been tackling BW but hoofta, it's a lot.) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 00:01, 6 May 2020 (EDT)
;I brought this up years ago, I think I updated some of them, and there wasn't really any resistance I'm aware of.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 08:04, 30 May 2021 (EDT)

== TF Car Robots concept materials? ==
Z226_JUPITER on [https://twitter.com/Z226_JUPITER Twitter] had been tweeting several behind-the-scenes stuff on ''[[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2001 franchise)|Car Robots]]'', namely design notes, storyboards, and [https://twitter.com/Z226_JUPITER/status/1258406704334532614 height chart], like how the Almanacs were for Animated. One of the more recent [https://twitter.com/Z226_JUPITER/status/1260473367192317955 tweets] noted a possible 176-page book being released, as well a PDF version. Unfortunately, I don't know anyone here who's fluent in Japanese to be able to better ask Z226_JUPITER about it, much less how a copy could be obtained to further supplement the wiki here for non-Japanese readers. One thing is that I don't know if this is something like a fan-release thing or something OKed by Takara, given how there have been the occasional official doujinshi/fan-supplemented materials green-lit by companies. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] ([[User talk:Lonegamer78|talk]]) 17:42, 14 May 2020 (EDT)
:I've crossposted this to the Discord server and one of our Japanese speaking users there (Star-Spangled Sam) volunteered to look into it. Abates and I looked at it a bit too, and found that Z226_Jupiter has a link in his Twitter profile to his works on booth.pm. That site appears to be a place for self publishing fan works and related to Pixiv, a Japanese site which is similar to DeviantArt. The book can be purchased from that site. As for whether it has any approval from TakaraTomy, that's unclear so far. The description when run through Google Translate reads like the speaker is not affilated with TT (which makes sense given this is a fanwork) but beyond that there's no indication. We're waiting to see what Sam comes up with. --[[User:Tigerpaw28|Tigerpaw28]] ([[User talk:Tigerpaw28|talk]]) 14:34, 3 June 2020 (EDT)
::Much kudos. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] ([[User talk:Lonegamer78|talk]]) 18:52, 5 June 2020 (EDT)

== New bot proposal ==
After some discussion on the Discord about the need for a new bot and having been thinking about writing one for awhile now, I've put together a proposal for how a new bot would work, and what kinds of things it might likely do. This done with the idea that [[User:Deceptitran|Deceptitran]]'s functionality would need to be replaced, given [[User:Derik|Derik]]'s infrequent appearances these days and no else having access to run Deceptitran. There's also a distinct possibility Deceptitran isn't functional at the moment as the URL for the Emopanda site Derik was using for hosting things externally (I presume this includes Deceptitran) is abandoned.

The way I see it, the bot could run a number of recurring tasks at different intervals, plus any one time "on demand" requests from Wiki editors/staff. Requests would made by editing a subpage of the bot's user page and filling out a template. This would be much the same as link fix requests worked with Deceptitran.

Every 15-30 minutes, the bot would check it's user page for new "on demand"/"editor generated" requests and process them.
For these requests, I see two levels of approval they could go through: 1. Request approval and 2. Result approval. The former would be approval of the request before any processing occurs. The latter would be approval of the results of a request before the bot actually makes any changes on the Wiki.

I think the first level of approval could be handled by checking Wiki rights/permission of the requesting user. A bot request approval permission could be created and assigned to any trusted non-mod or Admin user. Then only requests from those users, mods and admins would be processed. This would prevent anons and other untrusted accounts from using the bot for nefarious purposes without requiring active moderation of the request submissions by a human.

Result approvals would be to prevent the bot from making tons of errant changes. Someone would have to manually go through the list of changes proposed by the bot to see if anything looks wrong. To limit the amount of time we have to spend looking over stuff like this, I think it would make sense to make this a requirement only for requests that would produce a minimum (10? 20?) number of changes. This limit could be gradually increased as we become more confident in the bot's logic.

Verification of these changes would be done by logging into a site running on my hosting service, same as the bot would be. As for who would do it, I am willing to do it and/or we could set it up for any mods/admins that would like to. I've also thought about the possibility of having email notifications for when a request needs to be reviewed.

I've come up with the following ideas for what kinds of tasks could be done on demand:
::Link fixing
::Category tagging/untagging
::Section reordering by header level
::Mass page moving

In addition to the recurring on demand processing job, I've come up with some other recurring jobs that I think might be beneficial:

::At least once a day:
:::Page deletion
:::Welcoming users (placing the welcome template on their talkpage)
:::Fix redirects

::Daily:
:::Remove stale dated templates

I'm open to any other ideas on what tasks we'd like to have the bot perform. I'd also like to hear some thoughts on which tasks should get added as functionality first.
--[[User:Tigerpaw28|Tigerpaw28]] ([[User talk:Tigerpaw28|talk]]) 14:34, 3 June 2020 (EDT)

==G2 Go-Bots mold templates==
Hey y'all, I just knocked out a set of mold templates for the original six G2 Go-Bot toolings, I think I've gotten everything consistent as far as how to refer to stuff, but it's a little idiosyncratic because unlike say, the CW limb guys, you've got a case where Motormouth was released in two slightly different but clearly distinct plastic colors (clear vs opaque) and then RID Ironhide/CR Ox had multiple different uses of the tooling in different colorways, all intended to be the same character, which I'm struggling to think of a comparable situation. If someone else wants to go over the nomeclature I used (especially for the various store exclusive redecos) be my guest.

If I'm feeling REALLY masochistic, I might try to do a template like this for the Armada Mini-Con toolings, which are probably ''Classics'' Seeker level of reused. '''EDIT TO ADD:''' If I were to do the UT Mini-Cons, would the mold templates use the names the toys were sold under (e.g. "X-Dimension Sail") or the names that were retroactively applied by Ask Vector Prime? I'm inclined towards the former and to not even mention the retronyms, because otherwise the box gets really cluttered. I sort of flirted with this with 2003 Universe Camshaft and Hoist, who were just straight reissues of KB W.A.R.S. and Ironhide, but at least they were available on shelves under those names. I didn't bother with the Prowl and Ironhide that were retroactively "declared" to be Red Alert and Trailbreaker because who cares, lol. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] ([[User talk:Hooper X|talk]]) 14:44, 10 July 2020 (EDT)
:Mold templates are indeed geared to names of toys themselves. As you point out, a Japanese-exclusive toy should not use an English retronym. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 15:37, 10 July 2020 (EDT)
::As someone who wrote a lot of bios that gave Japanese Mini-Cons "western" names, yeah, use the names the toys were sold under. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 19:09, 10 July 2020 (EDT)

== Scheduled downtime ==

Our web host has notified me of some downtime scheduled for August 7 at 3AM UTC, so the site will be unavailable for a period at that time. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 02:18, 17 July 2020 (EDT)
:Reminder that this is later this week! --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 18:45, 2 August 2020 (EDT)

== Scoop bastard template ==

Since we have changed the caption bastard template to caption happy, do we wish to change the scoop bastard template as well? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 10:32, 17 July 2020 (EDT)
:Done and done. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 10:55, 17 July 2020 (EDT)

== Privacy Policy ==

I just noticed we have an unofficial, unadopted privacy party that's over a decade old. I raised the question in more detail on [[Project talk:Privacy policy|its talk page]], but it seems like something that should at least have a discussion and official outcome of some sort.--[[User:Cosmos1|Waverod ✈️]] ([[User talk:Cosmos1|talk]]) 20:26, 23 July 2020 (EDT)

== World of Warships article? ==
When Warships first announced this back in August, I was laughing so hard at the reactions. I'm a bit surprised to not see even a stub article about it.

* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnGP42M6Dig Announcement trailer] on August 3, 2020.
* [https://worldofwarships.com/en/news/general-news/one-shall-stand/ News announcement] on August 3, 2020 with a one-page comic of Optimus and Bumblebee.
* [https://worldofwarships.com/en/news/sales-and-events/transformers-more-than-meets-the-eye/ September 4, 2020 news update], showing off more assets and another one-page comic of Megatron and Rumble (red).

I suppose any Warships players here and at the discord would have a field day. (I don't play it, I only knew of it through another WW2-theme online game franchise from Japan.) --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] ([[User talk:Lonegamer78|talk]]) 05:39, 12 September 2020 (EDT)

== Officially approved YouTube videos ==

Here are some official videos undocumented on this wiki. Can they be documented?
<br>
'''Counter656 Hasbro approved stop motion videos'''

[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-wLsNdu7tFM Masterpiece Bumblebee stop motion]

[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m_gEL-qGBoI Movie Masterpiece Ratchet stop motion]
<br>

'''HISHE Bumblebee'''

[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nVZ6W5EQ9cw HISHE Bumblebee video]

It is approved by Paramount:
[https://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/paramount-approved-how-bumblebee-should-have-ended-video-featuring-jon-bailey/43183/]
<br>

'''Pewdiepie video'''

It is sponsored by Earth Wars. The original video is deleted but here is the mirror. The original upload didn't have subtitles):

[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mwRbBD1SIjE Pewdiepie video]
<br>

'''Lumaken Earth Wars stop motion'''

In the description, he says that this is a collaboration with the SpaceApe Games (Earth Wars developer):

[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xF-F4FlRc3I Lumaken stop motion]

--[[User:Primestar3|Primestar3]] ([[User talk:Primestar3|talk]]) 18:47, 18 September 2020 (EDT)
:First two are for sure good, as they were produced for Hasbro (and are even mirrored on the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVnDLnA9mro Transformers YouTube channel]). I'm hesitant at best about HISHE and Lumaken, and absolutely against Pewdiepie's. Also, if we were to document all "approved" videos, we'd have to include every video where Hasbro ever sent an outlet or YouTuber a product for review, and that would be tantamount to lunacy because of just how many videos that would include. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 19:18, 18 September 2020 (EDT)
::I think in regards to reviewers, they can get individual pages and have their approved videos be listed on those pages corresponding to the reviewer in question.--[[User:Primestar3|Primestar3]] ([[User talk:Primestar3|talk]]) 19:51, 18 September 2020 (EDT)
:::Again documenting every outlet/individual and instance in which they've been sponsored or sent something would be far too much of an undertaking, and these people are only tangentially related at best. For example, IGN has been sent press kits for TF games, been granted interviews with devs, and received toys for review, but they don't get their own article; we just link to the content where appropriate, like in a game's development section. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 20:05, 18 September 2020 (EDT)
::::Even then, the videos I've posted above all have some sort of narrative. That's far more distinctive than simple reviews and there are less approved narrative-based videos than approved review videos, so it wouldn't be as hard to document.

::::I think there's precedeence to this idea as this wiki documents videos on the official Transformers Youtube channel featuring narrative such as How to Ride your Dinobot but not every other video posted on that channel (most of which aren't short narrative based videos).--[[User:Primestar3|Primestar3]] ([[User talk:Primestar3|talk]]) 20:58, 18 September 2020 (EDT)
:::::We can't go documenting everything that Transformers has sponsored or we'd be here all millennium. If they're hosted on the official Transformers YouTube account, then that's something Hasbro produced and worth mentioning. But otherwise, it's tantamount to trying to list every single instance where a Transformers commercial has aired on TV. There's been episodes of TV shows sponsored by Transformers too. It's notable that Transformers has sponsored things in general and the types of things they've sponsored. But the individual things are not notable on their own unless Hasbro or a licensee produced it or paid someone else to produce it. HISHE might have an argument as the content creator asserts that Paramount approved it. The other two not on the official channel don't. Not really sure what SpaceApe's involvement was with the Lumaken video, but it seems like some of their people helped with filming or effects. That said, the video isn't corporately sponsored and thus their involvement does not appear to qualify the video as being an official production. Pewdiepie's has no Hasbro or licensee involvement whatsoever, it's just a paid ad. They bought airtime essentially. He just happened to theme the video around the advertisement. BIG no on that one. --[[User:Tigerpaw28|Tigerpaw28]] ([[User talk:Tigerpaw28|talk]]) 22:24, 18 September 2020 (EDT)

== New game "Transformers: Battlegrounds" ==

For the PlayStation, and [https://collider.com/transformers-battlegrounds-review-release-date/ Collider did a hands-on preview of it], saying that it's based on Cyberverse. See also the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUun-tEbF5Q trailer], with [https://twitter.com/Outright_Games/status/1308034152202211334 October 23, 2020] release date. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] ([[User talk:Lonegamer78|talk]]) 19:13, 21 September 2020 (EDT)

== Featured Article nominations ==

We now have a page for nominating articles to be picked as future Featured Articles: [[Transformers Wiki:Featured Article Nominations]]. While there's no guarantee that your suggestion will be picked, that's no reason not to make your voice heard! --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 20:16, 3 October 2020 (EDT)

== T-Beast ==

Hey all, I was just wondering if the T-Beast Art books were official publications through TakaraTomy? If they are, how come we haven't made pages for them on this wiki? I would make the pages if I knew much about them, but as I can't read or speak Japanese, I'd much rather leave that job for someone who knows more about them or who can translate any of whats in the books. I've watched Emgo316's review on the books on youtube and with the overuse of official names (sometimes ''Engrish'' translated) and faction insignias, it would suggest to me that it is a TakaraTomy publication. I know we won't cover the 3rd party molds based off of the designs from the books because *gasp* that's blasphemous, but the books are worth mentioning. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 02:05, 27 October 2020 (EDT)

Those aren't official liscenced product. We wished they were, but they're not. [[User:ZacAttack|ZacAttack]] ([[User talk:ZacAttack|talk]]) 02:19, 27 October 2020 (EDT)
:Interesting. It's really strange that they got away with having the insignias and names printed in the book without running into licensing issues. Anyways, thanks for clearing that up! :) [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 02:52, 27 October 2020 (EDT)

I think it's different in Japan. Might be wrong, but I think it's different. --[[User:ZacAttack|ZacAttack]] ([[User talk:ZacAttack|talk]]) 03:08, 27 October 2020 (EDT)

== Iron Man in commercial ==

Can I add this commercial appearance to Iron Man page? Both ROTF Megatron and Endgame Iron Man appear in the same commercial.

[https://www.tfw2005.com/boards/threads/sky-advert-featuring-bayverse-rotf-megatron.1202802/ commercial].--[[User:Primestar3|Primestar3]] ([[User talk:Primestar3|talk]]) 10:34, 1 November 2020 (EST)

== Can the ROTF viral sites be documented in a source page? ==

Realeffingdeal and Gianteffingrobots.com. Though they will be incomplete since not all of it is saved (especially the second site). I want to archive the surviving images and the posts regardless.--[[User:Primestar3|Primestar3]] ([[User talk:Primestar3|talk]]) 13:11, 1 November 2020 (EST).

:Go for it, why not? I wish I'd been able to archive some of the other tie-in web content that's now long since gone. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] ([[User talk:Hooper X|talk]]) 13:10, 4 December 2020 (EST)

== Any luck on finding the Holy Grails? ==

I know that they are called "Holy Grails" for a reason, but just for curiosity, and because the Holy Grail tab hasn't been updated for a while (or at least I think it hasn't), how is it going with the Holy Grails? P.S: I expected it to be hard, and also, what does it mean with "Kiss Players radio play translations"? Is it as in language translation? Supacool9[[User:Supacool9|Supacool9]] ([[User talk:Supacool9|talk]]) 20:09, 19 November 2020 (EST)

:Discission about things on the "Holy Grails" and the attempts to find them, can be found [[Talk:Main Page/holy-grails|here]].[[User:DDog|DDog]] ([[User talk:DDog|talk]]) 22:32, 3 November 2020 (EST)
::PS: make sure you sign your username by adding four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) at the end, and it will do it automatically.[[User:DDog|DDog]] ([[User talk:DDog|talk]]) 22:32, 3 November 2020 (EST)

== Operation Skyfire ==

Should a page be made for this cancelled movie? [https://www.tfw2005.com/boards/threads/lets-talk-about-operation-skyfire.1149480/ Operation Skyfire forum thread]--[[User:Primestar3|Primestar3]] ([[User talk:Primestar3|talk]]) 14:55, 12 November 2020 (EST)

== A moratorium on expanding toy entries? ==

There's been some discussion on the Discord recently about entries for newly-released toys getting clogged up with overlong crufty notes, as a result of people rushing in to expand the entries as soon the figure starts trickling out into the wild. I thought it could be worth discussing ways of combating these editing habits – a potential idea I'd had was a moratorium on expanding entries for newly-released toys, similar to what we did to curb poor editing habits in relation to the Facebook Ask Vector Prime? Maybe do it relative to the first US retail sighting or something? Thoughts welcome! [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 18:35, 27 November 2020 (EST)
:For starters, I'm gonna suggest immediate reversion of any claims of "widespread" defects or quality/sensitivity of pieces for the first month or two of release, so as to determine if it's *actually* a widespread issue and not someone adding personal commentary on the state of their own toy. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 19:00, 27 November 2020 (EST)
::I agree with this, I see mentionings of supposed "widespread" issues mentioned on here all the time that don't have sufficient evidence to back up these claims. [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420's]] idea of holding off for a month or so would probably be a good solution for this. It gives enough time for people to have a figure in-hand long enough to compare and document issues, allowing for us to have a better idea of whether these are as widespread as claimed or whether this is just one out of several million that has had issues with their personal figure. Especially when some people are buying stolen products long before their expected release and note issues that probably aren't even on the finished product and could possibly just be a result of a stolen test-shot. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 19:20, 27 November 2020 (EST)
::I'm going to agree with the """widespread""" issues notes needing to be held off on, but I'm not sure that waiting to just fill out basic info for an entry is going to actually curb the "overlong crufty" parts. That's... just a standard writing/editing issue that can affect toy writeups done years after a toy's release, or character profile entries, or etc. It's part of why I've been trying to "formalize" toy writeups a bit, a kind of "info goes in more or this order, try not to jump around between mode-features, paragraph breaks for X Y Z". Try and keep things less review-y and rambly. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 20:23, 3 December 2020 (EST)
:::Just gonna throw out [[Fasttrack_(G1)#War_for_Cybertron:_Earthrise]] as a recent example. Open with place in toyline, altmode, altmode/robot features... new paragraph for tertiary mode features to keep the first paragraphs from being too chunky.--[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 03:23, 4 December 2020 (EST)

== Messing around with mold templates ==

As seen [[User:Hooper_X/SANDBALLS/Template:G1BumblebeeMold|here for G1 Bee]], [[User:Hooper_X/SANDBALLS/Template:G1CliffjumperMold|here for the rest of the 84 minibots]], [[User:Hooper_X/SANDBALLS/Template:G1CombaticonMolds|here for the Combaticons]] and [[User:Hooper_X/SANDBALLS/Template:G1SeekerMold|here for the G1 Seekers]]. There doesn't seem to be a consistent way to manage significant retools - the Classics Seeker template makes a lot of distinctions, while the Universe Sunstreaker template treats all the retools as one consistent toy. I'm also trying to figure out how to thread the needle on the weird international variants of the minicars, like the "Huffer in Pipes colors" that supposedly came out in Greece and also came out in a different set of "Pipes colors" in Mexico... I'm gonna leave some time for y'all to comment and cogitate on it before I actually start adding these things all over the place. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] ([[User talk:Hooper X|talk]]) 13:13, 4 December 2020 (EST)
:The difference between the ''Classics'' Starscream template and the ''Universe'' Sunstreaker template is simple—if there has been a significant change to the body besides just a new head tooling and accessories, then there is a new group to sort by body style. That is how I reorganised the ''Combiner Wars'' network of templates. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 15:56, 4 December 2020 (EST)
::That works for me - as for the different colored international minibots, I've made a go of it [[User:Hooper X/SANDBALLS/Template:G1CliffjumperMold|here]] where I've broken them down by distributor in alphabetical order, then each colorway in parentheses after. What I'd really love would be little flag emoji to represent the relevant nations - Argentina for Antex, Peru for Lynsa, etc. We could waive these for Hasbro's worldwide releases I suppose. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] ([[User talk:Hooper X|talk]]) 12:57, 7 December 2020 (EST)

== Changing format of some older pages. ==

Hey everyone, it had been discussed earlier today on Discord that the G1 [[Wheelie (G1)|Wheelie]] page is in need of a complete revamp. Suggestions had been made to archive the original format of the page to keep the joke alive and available for those who still wish to see and admire it, while starting fresh in our standard character page format. It is nothing against the running joke per se, it mainly boils down to the rhyming starting to take its toll on the information that the page is supposed to present to readers of the wiki. I myself, before joining the wiki and even now, always avoid the page like a plague, as it is hard to navigate and actually obtain any information from, which goes against what the page is intended to do.

That doesn't mean all of the rhyming has to go, it is still welcome in the opening paragraph and image captions, but general consensus on Discord is that it could do to be more informative. I also believe that the long-running joke is starting to take its toll on editors adding any new additions while trying to keep with the rhyming format and quite frankly, I believe that to be another downfall to the article since the wiki is made to be as accessible as possible for anyone to edit and it just adds another layer of complications. I bring this up here rather than on the talk page as it has also been suggested that the same be done to G1 [[Rewind (G1)|Rewind]]'s page too for the same reasons.

I advice that you please make these discussions on the individual talk pages: '''[[Talk:Wheelie (G1)]]''' and '''[[Talk:Rewind (G1)]]'''.

Feel free to bring up any other pages worth making similar changes to '''here''' as there is bound to be others that could do to be looked over too.

Thank you and Happy 2021 to all! -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 05:53, 1 January 2021 (EST)

:'''Just a quick follow up after reading back over what was said on Discord:''' We could possibly keep the pages as is and keep them as the featured articles they are currently, while having a suite with a link to a more informative version, therefore keeping the jokes and also having a variant that actually makes "sense". Funny still wins as the main page and the other can be for readers to actually learn something more about the characters. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 06:39, 1 January 2021 (EST)
::I'm for redoing both into normal prose. Save the jokes for the intro. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 12:36, 1 January 2021 (EST)

== All the human collaborators should have a page ==

The Human collaborators is the concept of [[Human]]s being allied with the [[Decepticon]]s. It exists since the beginning of the brand, brought to existence in the [[Megatron's Master Plan]] Duology from the [[The Transformers (cartoon)|Transformers G1 cartoon]] and appeared for the last time in [[Transformers: Dark of the Moon (film)|Transformers: Dark of the Moon]], With DOTM 10th year anniversary on the horizon, i'm thinking of creating a page for all them. In fact i'm creating a sandbox about it and i want to know if its a good idea to do that or not. --[[User:Cybertron Forever|Cybertron Forever]] ([[User talk:Cybertron Forever|talk]]) 14:21, 18 January 2021 (EST)
:Our existing "Category:Humans" is in pretty bad shape. It's divided into dozens of subcategories already so that the "main" listing is nowhere near a single comprehensive list. Instead people went and added subgroups like "Classified Humans" and "Military Humans" and many many etc. From an educational resource perspective it would probably be more useful to streamline the category we already have. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 14:41, 18 January 2021 (EST)
::Okay i'll streamline the "Category:Humans" but how am i supposed to do that? --[[User:Cybertron Forever|Cybertron Forever]] ([[User talk:Cybertron Forever|talk]]) 15:42, 18 January 2021 (EST)
:::Decepticon human collaborators have been around a lot longer than just season 2 of G1. [[Doctor Arkeville]] was actually the first Decepticon ally. Even then, characters collaborating with Decepticons had been around in the years in between G1 and DOTM. the Marvel G1 comics, Dreamwave comics, IDW comics and such, more than likely had a lot of instances where that was a thing too (I'm not too familiar with a lot of those comics). ''Animated'' had some of the human villains working with the Decepticons on some occassions too.

:::As for the human collaborators page, I don't feel that a separate page needs to be made, there was never a collective group or organization of them, just occassional cases of random people being told what to do while more or less being held at gun point, or on some occassions, given the sweet promise of world domination. I think if anything, Thylacine's idea of making a subcategory would probably be your best bet, but a better name would be "Decepticon allied humans" or something. As far as I'm aware, there is no page for Autobot allied humans (which there are crap tons of), so there is really no point in making one for the Decepticon allies. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 18:10, 18 January 2021 (EST)
:::: It most certainly is not "my idea to make a new subcategory." We have too many subcategories already. Most of them are dumb and are at the expense of having a useful, comprehensive Human category.--[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 21:09, 18 January 2021 (EST)

:There really is little to no point to a page for this concept; a category will do. That'd just be opening up for countless list-pages of random Things People In Fiction Sometimes Do, and this wiki is historically not keen on list pages. There's a lot of stuff characters do/are that don't have pages just because the concept is too vague, too broad, or too obvious that a page would not actually provide any new information (or comedy potential) on how its use within ''Transformers'' fiction is different from the immediately obvious. There's no page for "ninjas" (that just links to the Category), but "Cyber-Ninja Corps", a very specifically-defined group of ninjas, does get a page.
:And... look, not to sound mean, but... if you have no idea how a big major overhauling project might be done, maybe you should leave that task to someone else. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 18:40, 18 January 2021 (EST)

:Besides "bad guys" like Shawn Berger or Doctor Arkeville, does Spike count when he went nuts as Autobot Spike and used Megatron to fire on the Autobots? Or do [[Buster Witwicky (G1)|Buster Witwicky]] and [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Spike]] count when the Autobots had a truce with the Decepticons against a [[Dark Star|cosmically-powered Starscream]]? Or take [[Skywarp (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Skywarp]]: he joined G.I.Joe and worked with them. Does that make all of G.I. Joe human collaborators? I hope not. If someone has to think this hard about who actually belongs to a category, it will actually clutter up the wiki instead of clarify relationships. Everything that ''could'' be grouped doesn't necessarily benefit from a page or category. It may be worth noting briefly ''on individual character pages'' about some characters' tendencies to work with Decepticons. [[User:Prime Radiant|Prime Radiant]] ([[User talk:Prime Radiant|talk]]) 19:31, 18 January 2021 (EST)

:Okay it seems a page won't really be necessary, so i won't do it. But i'm until now trying to know how am i supposed to streamline the "Category:humans"? --[[User:Cybertron Forever|Cybertron Forever]] ([[User talk:Cybertron Forever|talk]]) 22:37, 18 January 2021 (EST)
::Coming up with the answer to your question is the bulk of the task itself. It's a lot of work and there's no immediately obvious and clear approach. If you'd like to try something, use a sandbox and communicate with us here. If you need a lot of guidance, it's best to leave it to someone else like Sipher said. [[User:Prime Radiant|Prime Radiant]] ([[User talk:Prime Radiant|talk]]) 22:14, 19 January 2021 (EST)

::I think i'll create a category called "Human Collaborators", but only after the "Category:humans" is streamlined, which is something someone must do here since i don't know how to do this and by doing so will help this wiki a lot. --[[User:Cybertron Forever|Cybertron Forever]] ([[User talk:Cybertron Forever|talk]]) 19:56, 21 January 2021 (EST)
:::I honestly think that is the ''opposite'' of what we need. The first thing to be done after streamlining should not be the addition of more subcategories. The point has been made that there are too many human subcategories already, and I agree. You seem very intent on specifically adding information about Decepticon-allied humans. Keep in mind that this is not an official faction. This is effectively like creating a category about "Humans With Yellow Boots and Blue Pants and Hard Hats". Yes, that group exists, but unless it's very funny, we don't need it. Going forward, I recommend focusing on contributing to what the wiki lacks (say, by adding information on our pages with stubs) instead of searching for differences without distinction. [[User:Prime Radiant|Prime Radiant]] ([[User talk:Prime Radiant|talk]]) 21:04, 21 January 2021 (EST)

== Finishing the "Story sections" in the Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (PS2/Wii) and (PSP) pages. ==

The story of the PSP and PS2/Wii versions of Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen video game must be concluded and i wanted to do this myself, but i'm having difficulties due to my family and i making preparations to move out. So the question is: Can someone insert the synopsis of the remaining chapters of each version of the game here? Because if you can it will help this wiki a lot. --[[User:Cybertron Forever|Cybertron Forever]] ([[User talk:Cybertron Forever|talk]]) 15:25, 31 January 2021 (EST)
: That is entirely contingent on whether or not any of the regular contributors own the game or a system to play it on. [[User:Grum|Grum]] ([[User talk:Grum|talk]]) 21:07, 31 January 2021 (EST)

What's the matter? can't someone see it on Youtube and then write what they've saw on the articles? Because that's how i got the information about the story of the games i insert here. In fact that's how i got the necessary info to create the [[Quest for Optimus Prime]] and [[MechTech Wars]] online games and to insert the story of [[Transformers: Shadows Rising]]. --[[User:Cybertron Forever|Cybertron Forever]] ([[User talk:Cybertron Forever|talk]]) 21:14, 31 January 2021 (EST)
:You know, petulantly whining at other people to do work there is absolutely no rush on, on a site done on a volunteer basis, doesn't really get any of it done faster. Tends to ''dis''incentivize people to do it, actually. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 01:42, 1 February 2021 (EST)
::The pages have been stubs for this long, I doubt having them being left a little longer will hurt anyone. They're bound to still be there once you're done moving and have more free time on your hands. There's no rush. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 07:33, 1 February 2021 (EST)

== Micro-Sized ==

Hey all, was wondering if we should make a page/archive for the Mini-Con/Micro-Sized profiles from the Collectors' Club website and magazine?

They seem to be rather important pieces of fiction for a lot of those Mini-Cons and I feel we should have some form of proper write ups or a proper link to archives of the profiles themselves at the very least. Half the character pages have the profiles summed up in brief opening paragraphs but some people (me included) may want to read some of the online profiles which the Collectors' Club website doesn't appear to have anymore.

Just an idea I thought might be interesting to look into. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 20:04, 31 January 2021 (EST)

:Yeah, but... is it legal for us to archive that material? I honestly don't know what the current status is of fiction produced under FP (or 3H, for that matter). Does Hasbro "own" it? Does Brian Savage? Does anybody? [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] ([[User talk:Hooper X|talk]]) 12:48, 24 February 2021 (EST)
::Fun Publications produced that material under license from Hasbro and TakaraTomy. I assume Hasbro owns it just as they enable their current comic partner IDW to reprint Marvel and Dreamwave material. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 12:57, 24 February 2021 (EST)

== New signups temporarily suspended ==

New signups have been temporarily suspended due to excessive vandalism. Apologies for the inconvenience. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 04:04, 28 February 2021 (EST)
:And now they should be back on. Thank you for your patience. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 00:46, 7 March 2021 (EST)

== Reducing negative ''Energon'' episode notes. ==

Alrighty, since the wiki has been taking a pretty neutral approach to things over recent years and we had already decided on reducing excessive sarcasm and negativity to the ''Energon'' cartoon page, I feel the episode pages should probably follow suit.

I'm just started my annual rewatch of the show and I'm going to add, subtract and alter things like I did in the ''Armada'' episode pages after each watch. I'm already making a start on removing pieces of sarcasm listed as "trivia" that ''really'' doesn't need to be highlighted and is only there for the sake of bashing the show.

That being said, errors, plotholes, continuity issues etc. are fine, but the "pain count" sections probably should either be removed or be relabelled as "stock phrase count" or something along those lines. I'm personally still alright with the caption jokes and quote jokes, but the excessive "This character sucks because the show sucks." is definitely a no go.

After a disscussion on Discord, it had also been suggested that we list common stock phrases from the Unicron Trilogy on a separate page much like we do for [[Furmanism]]s. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 03:25, 2 March 2021 (EST)
:Before anyone goes to the trouble of creating an entire "Energonisms" page, it is worth examining whether the series is well-known or well-liked enough for that to be worthwhile. Furman wrote hundreds of comics & scripts across multiple series and about 25 years; his repeat phrases are more noticeable and important. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 07:36, 2 March 2021 (EST)
::I still disagree with the concept of "Furmanisms". They're just pulpy phrasing. It's hardly unique to him. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 09:14, 2 March 2021 (EST)
:::I'll be honest, the Furmanisms page is filled with rather common oldschool comicbook phrases that aren't ''really'' unique to him or ''Transformers'' for that matter. You can almost guarantee that those phrases have been used in even older comics from the 60s, like ''X-Men'' for example. Hell, they've possibly been used in material even older than that. I generally stay clear of anything that makes references to that page, because it is full of blurred lines. Perhaps this should also be a topic for discussion. In terms of Energonisms, I personally don't agree with it either, but I thought I better bring it up for those who aren't on Discord.
:::My main concern right now is whether we should remove the "pain count" sections from the episode pages. As I've been binging the show and updating episode info, I've been working around them, but they still hold a heavy tone of negativity while everything else around them has been altered to the neutral tone. I've tried to think of a better title to use in its place, but the further through the episode pages I go, the more excessively negative it seems to get. Yes there are a ''lot'' of stock phrases used, but if people start to include other ones that haven't already been listed—and there are quite a few—pretty soon we're gonna end up with entire dub scripts for the episodes listed lol. As for stock footage counts, it's common in practically every Japanese ''Transformers'' series (From BWII onwards at the very least), so listing them is just another example of adding things to bash the show. Our [[Transformers Wiki:Captions#Captions and jokes we're sick of|captions/jokes policies]] also state that ''Energon'' jokes are pretty much frowned upon by today's wiki standards.
:::As I am writing this post, it has also occured to me that ''Cybertron''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s episode pages have pain counts that follow the same outline too (listing stock phrases and stock footage), so perhaps we should look into removing those for the same reasons. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 06:11, 5 March 2021 (EST)
::::I feel it should be pointed out that many of the stock phrases from Energon ("Uh...", "Huh?" "Let's do it!", "Wait up!" etc.) were first used by the same dubbing team back in Armada. If any new page is going to be created for those phrases, it's only fair that those from Armada (and probably from Cybertron too) be included since those phrases are not exclusive to Energon even if it's in that show that they're the worst offender. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 09:58, 5 March 2021 (EST)
:::::I agree with removing the pain counts and overall negativity from the UT-related pages, while I disagree with creating the "Energonisms" page because that would neuter our efforts to remove said negativity. I also never cared for Furmanisms so I don't even see a reason for that page to still exist tbh. [[User:Fritz|Fritz]] ([[User talk:Fritz|talk]]) 13:11, 5 March 2021 (EST)
::::::I don't think there's a need for Energonisms, but I think Furmanisms need to stay based solely on the fact that they're a known factor and both Furman and other creators have leaned into their existence in self-referential and parodical ways, enough that it makes sense to have a page explaining them. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 13:34, 5 March 2021 (EST)
:::::::It's funny you say that, Fritz. ''Armada'' was the first place to use the stock phrases, yet the episode pages were absent of any pain counts or any real negativity in general. As for ''Cybertron'', listing the pain counts on those pages seems to hold the same weight as the negativity I pruned down on the main ''Armada'' page a couple of weeks ago. They seem to be an outdated case of critisms that were made when the show first came out. In my experience, ''Cybertron'', while still not perfect, still remains the pretty widely enjoyed out of the three shows among the Facebook groups and stuff I've been in.

:::::::At the end of the day, I don't feel it's really the wiki's place to tell people how to feel towards something. It's one thing to mention issues and critisms, but when you're pushing personal opinions onto the reader, making them steer clear of the show entirely instead of letting them form their own opinions, it doesn't really help keep the history of the brand we're supposed to be documenting alive. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 15:28, 5 March 2021 (EST)
::::::::The keyword there is "outdated." Energon is from 2003 and the "pain count" stuff was probably all written in 2007 or so. In 2021 no one is creating canon with ironic joking references to a hypothetical Energonism, and even if they did, the whole source of complaint is that the dialogue is so interchangeable and empty that if someone were to say it in a future series it would probably just be seen as unrelated new bad dialogue. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 15:44, 5 March 2021 (EST)
:::::::::So I guess we're all pretty much on the same page here then. From the response I got on Discord a few days ago and the repsonse here, it seems pretty clear that the "Pain counts" should go. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 16:11, 5 March 2021 (EST)
::::::::::Totally agree with you there, Fanofcoolstuff27. I watched ''Energon'' and ''Cybertron'' for the first time just last year and actually enjoyed the latter a lot. At the time I felt that the pain counts were harming my own enjoyment of reading the wiki after watching each episode and I even consider removing them by myself. So I'm glad this is finally up for debate and other people are agreeing on getting rid of them. --[[User:Fritz|Fritz]] ([[User talk:Fritz|talk]]) 16:27, 5 March 2021 (EST)
I think this kind of went off on a big digression about "Energonisms" and personal liking of the series, but I think this is enough consensus to reduce the negativity of the Energon articles. (The episodes could use better summaries as well.) [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 16:35, 5 March 2021 (EST)
:The pain counts can go, but I'm 100% against removing the overal tone of negativity. Like it or not, Energon is a dull show with an objectively mediocre dub, and consistently remains the most disliked of any televised Transformers cartoon. To try and soften that in the Energon articles almost feels like a disservice to 20 years of near-universal fan rejection. (And the reason we say not to make Energon jokes on the caption page was because they were getting excessive across the whole wiki. That said, while other pages shouldn't be saddled with such jokes, there's no reason to sugarcoat things on the Energon articles themselves.) -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 16:41, 5 March 2021 (EST)
::Agreed, and definitely on that last point. Energon is garbage in any language, and I feel we do a disservice to act like it's not a rushed, cheap, ugly job by the lowest bidder that runs out of plot halfway through its episode count and has to start over even BEFORE you take into account the first-draft English dub. And yes, the captions page remark about it and many other objects of derision is mostly about the ''unoriginality'' and ''over-use'' of adding ''new'' joke captions about it, not "it's wrong". --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 17:35, 5 March 2021 (EST)
:::See, my issue here isn't neccessarily the negativity itself, more the overuse of it. I've already taken it upon myself to remove silly pieces of "trivia" that aren't trivia at all and are more just an attempt to bash a bad show. You can mention all of it's flaws and whatever, there is no problem with that. It's the constant nitpickiness that is added, when just about ''every'' Transformers show has more or less the ''exact'' same issues. The line between openly pointing out issues in one show and turning a blind eye to those same issues in other shows is ''very'' blurred.

:::Given our recent response on Discord towards the removal of "Pain counts" from the Energon episode pages, perhaps we could at least settle with a mid-ground compromise. My proposal: The removal of stock footage from the counts. It's not exclusive to Energon at all, so listing them as a ''bad'' thing builds a pretty poor case. Yeah, there is a ''lot'' of stock footage use, but the show is to sell Transformers toys, so highlighting the brand's main attraction is hardly a crime. BWII, BWN, RID/Car Robots, Robot Masters, Armada/Legends of the Microns, Energon/Super Link, Cybertron/Galaxy Force, Animated, Go!, RID 2015 and I wanna say Cyberverse (?) are all guilty of using stock footage. Only about three of them are English-speaking original shows, while the rest of them are Japanese shows. It's practically been a tradition to include stock footage transformations and combinations at this point. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 18:31, 5 March 2021 (EST)

== Voice actor categorization ==

I really don't like the idea of putting voice actors into company categories based on shows or games they've appeared in (see [[:Category:Activision]] or [[:Category:DreamWorks]] for example). This seems a little disingenuous, considering that none of these are employees of these companies, but rather freelance. Furthermore, this doesn't include all the different shows' production companies, but rather more like picking and choosing at random. If you were to categorize them at all, I would either do so based on the studio the series was recorded at (such as Voicebox or Studiopolis) or make new "(show) voice cast" categories. (But honestly, my first choice would be to not do so at all.) -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 00:17, 6 March 2021 (EST)
:How about we create nested categories such as "Category:Activision freelancers"? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 01:34, 22 March 2021 (EDT)
::"Category:Activision voice actors"? Maybe something similar with other videogames or tv series'/movies? "Category:____ voice actors". [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 02:39, 22 March 2021 (EDT)

== Energon Terrorcons ==

I'm having issues with the way we have the ''Energon'' Terrorcon pages currently set up. The pages have a lot of misinformation being spread within them and between them and I'm not entirely sure how we should handle it.

The show presents three different colour variants/breeds/races of flying Terrorcon: Divebomb, a "Stealth Divebomb" (which is the Command Ravage colour palette placed on Divebomb), and the Shadowhawk Cosmo Type/Blackout colour scheme. I've just gone and removed the stealth colour scheme write ups from Blackout's page as they are clearly not the same thing and it would fall under potential citogenesis.

My proposal for this issue would be to move "Blackout (Terrorcon)" to "Shadowhawk Cosmo Type" and just make mention of the Energon dubs' cock up with the names as a note or that an individual Terrorcon named "Blackout" is also among them. Much like "Command Ravage", "Shadowhawk Cosmo Type" is also an official name and it's my understanding that if Hasbro names aren't available, we generally opt for the Takara names instead (e.g. [[Mirror]]), and because "Blackout" is referred to as an individual rather than a race/breed, it would be hard to use that as an offical English-language designation. I also don't feel that there would be enough to warrant an individual Shadowhawk Cosmo Type page and a Blackout page, as they'd contain most of the same information.

Secondly, I'm wondering if the stealth decoed Divebombs warrant their own page under a nickname title? e.g. [[Watchdog (G1)]]. They are clearly a different breed to the two aforementioned races and with the Command Ravages being present alongside them, it only seems fair to mark them on a separate page too. If others agree, I was thinking maybe "Stealth Divebomb" or something, as the title—unless ''Super Link'' has a better term used in the episode?

Thirdly, and the least important of noting on this list of issues: The Planet Q natives featured in the flashback (before the planet was destroyed) use both the Shadowhawk Cosmo Type model and a recoloured version of the Battle Ravage model in the same colours. Do these Battle Ravage redecos warrant a page or is a note on the respective mold pages enough for them?

Thank Primus that the Insecticons and Cruellocks don't suffer from this issue of multiple breeds/repaints presented on-screen.

Let me know what you think. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 05:49, 10 March 2021 (EST)

:I would make a "Shadowhawk Cosmo Type" article for that color scheme in general, but keep the Blackout article for that specific individual. All of the other weird color schemes like "Shadowhawk Desert Type" could just go on the regular article, with notes pointing out their existence. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:35, 10 March 2021 (EST)

::Sounds like a plan. I'll get a sandbox started for the Cosmo Type Terrorcons. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 15:44, 10 March 2021 (EST)

== Excessively long toy pages ==

Let's face it. A few pages such as "[[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys]]" and "[[Megatron (G1)/toys]]" have become so long that they can slow down a device just to be loaded. Will we allow indefinite expansion such that page scrolling time will balloon further? We need to do some kind of split that will set up a second page for many years to come. Some months back, there was a discussion on the Discord server suggesting the start of ''Generations'' in 2010 as a useful dividing boundary. Thoughts? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 16:38, 13 March 2021 (EST)
:I agree with the split from ''Generations''. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 17:36, 13 March 2021 (EST)
::If no one is against this split, I might make a start on it now because I was editing the G1 Prime page before and I was worried it was going to make Chrome crash with how long it was taking just to load the previews for my edits. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 07:22, 14 April 2021 (EDT)
:Regarding Megatron, I propose splitting out all non-transforming gun mode accessories that were available with other figures into their own page. There are a ''lot'' of those, and they don't need to clutter up a page along with the transforming figures.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 07:59, 30 May 2021 (EDT)

== Template:quote and Template:bigquote ==

Why do we have both of these? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 07:39, 16 March 2021 (EDT)

:the big one looks much better and less confusing. i suggest getting rid of the normal one. --[[User:GobotsFanForever|GobotsFanForever]] ([[User talk:GobotsFanForever|talk]]) 07:48, 16 March 2021 (EDT)
:While I find the big one hideously obnoxious and would suggest getting rid of it.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 11:32, 16 March 2021 (EDT)
:sorry, it turns out that for some reason, the normal quotes were not showing up properly on my computer. but now they are. now the big quotes do seem kinda unnecessary. --[[User:GobotsFanForever|GobotsFanForever]] ([[User talk:GobotsFanForever|talk]]) 21:11, 16 March 2021 (EDT)

== Merge or not to merge the ROTF toyline and N.E.S.T. Global Alliance pages. ==

I think we should merge the [[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (toyline)|ROTF toyline]] and the N.E.S.T. Global Alliance pages, since they're both from the [[Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen]] movie, along with the fact that some toys from that [[subline imprint]] are in the ROTF page. Besides, the reason why users here want their pages to be merged is the same from the [[Transformers: Armada (toyline)|Armada]] and The Unicron Battles, which by the time of this talk, they're already merged. --[[User:Cybertron Forever|Cybertron Forever]] ([[User talk: Cybertron Forever|talk]]) 16:52 18 March 2021 (EST)
:I'm down with that. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 02:40, 22 March 2021 (EDT)

==All those Takara BW-era-ish named weapon pages==
So this caught my eye... we have a buncha pages for the various named weapons from the BW2/Neo-era toys, and... do we need them at all? Do these pages actually contain enough unique information to justify them? I mean, we got individual pages for Archadis's "[[Wing Gundread]]s", "[[Wing Bomb]]s" and "[[Founder Shot]]", and not a one of them has anything that the actual Archadis page doesn't cover. Seems like most of these don't have any special effects like the "torque rifle" or "electro-scrambler" and such; it makes more sense to have those pages since the special effects are all right there without having to sift through non-weapon info, which feels like a good resource for writing purposes to see how these special weapons were used. But if they're all just normal old blasters and swords and whatnot, the individual pages are basically just severely chainsawed versions of the character pages. Feels kind of pointless and wasteful of the reader's time to point them at these pages. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 17:27, 30 March 2021 (EDT)
:After going through it all, I'm starting to think this is a valid point. Half of these weapons wouldn't even have enough information to fill a page to be quite honest—and that's after filling the fiction stubs too. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 08:24, 31 March 2021 (EDT)

==New Molds are Not News==
It quickly gets repetitive for toy entries to say such-and-such is a new mold. I think we should have "new mold" be the default, unsaid expectation, instead pointing out when toys are retools / redecos. "Actually a new mold" should be saved for occasions when something looks or is widely perceived to be a remold but actually isn't (i.e. Smokejumper / Energon Starscream). --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 16:03, 7 April 2021 (EDT)
:Agreed.--[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 16:58, 7 April 2021 (EDT)
::Agreed. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 17:54, 7 April 2021 (EDT)

== Impending upgrade ==

My intention is to attempt an upgrade of the wiki's core software tomorrow. It is not going to be a large jump in versions, so I don't anticipate it will break anything, but you never know. I'll post again here closer to the time. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 05:17, 23 April 2021 (EDT)
:In, let's say, around about three hours. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 00:16, 24 April 2021 (EDT)
::Ten minute warning! --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 02:49, 24 April 2021 (EDT)
All done. Please go about your business. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 03:20, 24 April 2021 (EDT)

== Change to combiner team member lists? ==

Inspired by some comments Chris was pointing out from his new Aerialbot video, I was thinking about how we could better contextualise the various extra/alternate members most combiner teams have wound up with over the years, rather than simply putting them all in a plain list that can, for instance, wrongfully give the impression that Balloon is a noteworthy Aerialbot and not a literal joke. Put together a sandbox to show what I was thinking: [[User:Jalaguy/Sandbox/Aerialbot]] - thoughts? I think this is one of those occasions - like Unicron's history and stuff - where going out-of-universe for a bit is the best way of communicating important context to the reader. [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 12:15, 24 April 2021 (EDT)

== Request and code review for adding JS-based tabbed tables ==

A few of us were inspired by the tabbed tables on other wikis. For example, [https://www.khwiki.com/Xehanort the Kingdom Hearts wiki], a main character has tables that contain "Profile" and "Journal" tabs. This request is strictly about tabs, not general infoboxes. I pulled the relevant JS and CSS and created a [[Template:Tab]], and added the custom JS and CSS to my user page, and things seem fine. The tabifier only relies on jQuery, so we don't need to add anything extra. I have videos of the behavior on our Discord too.

Would it be possible for an admin (abates?) to review the proposed additions, and if approved, merge them into the page load?
:JS: https://github.com/tf-wiki-discord/wiki-utils/blob/main/tabber.js
:CSS: https://github.com/tf-wiki-discord/wiki-utils/blob/main/tabber.css

Thanks for reviewing/considering! [[User:Prime Radiant|Prime Radiant]] ([[User talk:Prime Radiant|talk]]) 13:22, 29 April 2021 (EDT)
:What's the intention to use tabs for? My main reservation would be with user experience. E.G. putting stuff behind a tab hides it from a browser search, so if a user googles a term and ends up on a page where the mention of that term is hidden behind a tab, they might not be able to find it. --[[User:Abates|abates]] ([[User talk:Abates|talk]]) 16:57, 29 April 2021 (EDT)

::One intended use-case would be supplementary. For most Transformers, I can imagine a "tabbed mainpic", one tab being bot mode and the other being the alt mode. I'm thinking particularly about a ''[[The Transformers Universe|Transformers Universe]]'' or Dreamwave's ''[[Transformers: More than Meets the Eye|More Than Meets the Eye]]'', where bot mode and alt mode are viewable together as a single visual unit. And this is extendable to triple- or multi-changers, or can be ignored for Action Masters. This use is not restricted to mainpic use either. I don't think images of alt modes being hidden behind a tab is worse than things are now. [[User:Saix|Saix]] and [[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] may want to weigh in here. [[User:Prime Radiant|Prime Radiant]] ([[User talk:Prime Radiant|talk]]) 19:42, 29 April 2021 (EDT)

:::This is essentially a prelude to a more specific policy proposal once we get the machinery up and running and start working with it but I believe this concept of a "tabbed image" to display all modes of a character model, toy, etc without compromising readability to be perhaps the most potent utility of this technology. -[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 20:25, 29 April 2021 (EDT)

::::I can see this possibly being useful for toys that end up with multiple modes used within fiction like any of the ''Legends'' and ''Generations Selects'' characters with canonized "fan-modes" that get a little crazy to document in a single image or maybe having the Hasbro and Takara variants in a tabbed system?

::::The only thing I find that could potentially go wrong using a tab system at the top of an article for robot and alt modes, is the fact that G1 characters (as an example)—especially in the JG1 fiction—have been through multiple bodies with multiple vehicle modes. Even G1 Prime hasn't been the same exact flat-nosed cab for the 35+ years between American continuities. So this still kinda falls under the whole "prioritizing one thing over the rest" argument that the info box discussion created on Discord. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 20:42, 29 April 2021 (EDT)

:::::I don't want to get too ahead of ourselves on the specifics of implementation at this juncture but I will say we've gone round on the philosophy of potential "alt mode mainpics" a bit on the Discord and I believe it would be important to emphasize consistency with the character model selected for the bot mode mainpic as opposed to getting lost in the weeds of a character's "one true alt mode" or what have you. -[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 21:29, 29 April 2021 (EDT)

== New bot account on site ==
I wanted to give a heads up that we have a new bot account on the site: [[User:FuncGammaBot]]. This account is owned by the developer of the WikiClientLibrary library that [[User:Teletraan-X]] uses for logging in to the site. The developer asked to use us for testing his code against MediaWiki 1.19 because Fandom no longer has a 1.19 site for them to test against. I consulted with abates and since he had no issues with the developer using us for unit tests, I let them know it was okay. Unit tests are automated code tests that are run to make sure that: A. a new code fix works and B. that said new code fix doesn't break something else. This testing will allow the library to continue workinga and thus Teletraan-X to continue working while on TFWiki is on version 1.19. The account will only be interacting with it's own sandbox and not making any edits to actual content pages or the like. I wanted to let everyone know so they aren't wondering what this weird account is doing only editing sandbox pages. --[[User:Tigerpaw28|Tigerpaw28]] ([[User talk:Tigerpaw28|talk]]) 15:46, 17 May 2021 (EDT)

== Establishing gallery pages for characters ==

So it seems we (and creators) have run into problems with poor references (especially regarding alternate modes) and there's the simple fact that there's a huge lack of ''any'' central resource for official ''Transformers'' renders and art (aka assets)—especially for older media like ''Beast Machines''. In that regard, I'm proposing we create gallery pages for at least characters with multiple bodies and incarnations and also serve as a repository for art. I've created [[User:Saix/Megatron (BW)/gallery|an example for Beast Megatron]] that I hope will illustrate what I imagine those galleries to look like. Any thoughts or concerns about this? [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 17:33, 27 May 2021 (EDT)

== Technically correct but needlessly vague section headers, unhelpful "fiction first" format ==

I stumbled across this on the [[Cyclonus's Armada]] page. For reasons unknown to me, the section that covers how Marvel's comic adaptation of the 1986 animated movie handled Cyclonus and "his Armada" is placed under the not-so-obvious header "Marvel future timelines", with a storylink leading to "Judgment Day!", which I have to click in order to find out that it's actually not a UK future timeline story, but the comic adaptation of the movie. This is not helpful. Especially when there's currently still a deeplink further down in the "Origins" section that links to a now-defunct "Marvel The Transformers: The Movie comic adaptation" section.

Also, I feel like the "Cyclonus's Armada" section is suffering from the "fiction first, real life background information later" format. In cases where the subject of a page is a major conundrum that's more notable for the mystery surrounding it than for its fictional portrayal itself, I propose we should ingore the standard and put the background information above the fiction sections in order to make those pages more accessible to casual readers I'm not sure yet if that should be applied to [[Swerve (Chevy)]] as well.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 08:30, 30 May 2021 (EDT)

[[Krunix (G1)]] might also benefit from an "explanation first" format. Not quite sure yet regarding [[Mister Johnson]].--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 08:53, 30 May 2021 (EDT)

== Repurpose notes ==

Does anyone else think it would be a good idea to add a bit to the repurposed toys note to identify where this happened? --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 10:09, 9 June 2021 (EDT)
:That is a logical course of action. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 04:26, 18 June 2021 (EDT)

== Beast Era parentheticals ==

As already discussed here on [[Talk:Silverbolt (G1)#Earth Wars BW Silverbolt IS NOT G1 SILVERBOLT|jetliner Silverbolt's talk page]], ''Earth Wars'' has clarified the need to reestablish the original Magnaboss toy trio as their own individuals with separate pages. For some consistency, what is our take on how the parentheticals will work out when Fuzors and Transmetals have not appeared outside the ''Beast Wars'' franchise?

Is this preferable?<br>
Silverbolt (G1), Silverbolt (BW eagle), Silverbolt (BW Fuzor), Prowl (G1), Prowl (BW lion), Prowl (BW Transmetal 2)

Or is this preferable?<br>
Silverbolt (G1), Silverbolt (BW eagle), Silverbolt (Fuzor), Prowl (G1), Prowl (BW lion), Prowl (Transmetal 2)

Should the Fuzor and owl still have "BW"? I point out that such labelling does serve as a handy signal for readers as to which franchise a wiki URL belongs. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 19:20, 12 June 2021 (EDT)
:"(BW Transmetal 2)" is definitely too long. In Owl Prowl's case, he either ought to stay at "Prowl II" (due to the complications of his past, or in consistency with Transmetal 2 Dinobot similarly being at "Dinobot II"), or be moved to either "Prowl (BW owl)", "Prowl (BW TM2)", or just "Prowl (TM2)". Of those choices, I'm leaning towards either "Prowl (BW owl)" since it would be consistent with "Prowl (BW lion), or "Prowl (TM2)" since Transmetals 2 are still just a BW-only thing. The latter would also enable the lion to be as "Prowl (BW)", unless that's too misleading since he isn't the only BW Prowl, in which case "(BW lion)" and "(BW owl)" would be the most concise.
:As for the Silverbolts, I've given my piece about them, but for a recap, I'm for "Silverbolt (BW eagle)" and "Silverbolt (BW Fuzor)", with "Silverbolt (BW)" redirected to the latter. While the Fuzor is unquestionably the more prominent of the two, the eagle came first and was, for a whole year, the only BW Silverbolt in existence at the time. He has every right to the "(BW)" tag just as much as the Fuzor does. Keeping "(BW)" in the title of both makes it immediately clear that both are BW-original characters without ever having to read the article.
:Frankly, I am not a fan of "(Magnaboss)" as a tag since, to the uninformed, "Silverbolt (Magnaboss)" and "Prowl (Magnaboss)" make it look like we're saying that this Silverbolt and this Prowl are each "a Magnaboss", which is misleading for anyone who doesn't know who or what Magnaboss is. Sure, it only takes a second to read their articles, but "(BW eagle)" and (BW lion) are more direct and to the point, instantly getting the message across that they both originated from BW.
:And if the eagle gets to keep "BW" in its tag, then certainly the Fuzor should as well since, as mentioned, he is the more prominent of the two BW Silverbolts and shouldn't be forced to lose his "BW" to the eagle, even if the eagle has just as much right to it. Ergo, they both can share. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 00:51, 13 June 2021 (EDT)
I vote for the first option except for Prowl the Owl, who I think works best as Prowl (BW Owl).
[[User:MrRald|MrRald]] ([[User talk:MrRald|talk]]) 01:34, 13 June 2021 (EDT)
:I'm personally thinking "Prowl (BW)", "Prowl (TM2)", "Silverbolt (eagle)" and "Silverbolt (Fuzor)". To me it just needlessly over complicates things by having "(BW eagle)" and "(BW Fuzor)" because we don't go "[[Swerve (Universe)|Swerve (Universe -insert whatever specifics here-)]]" and "[[Swerve (Chevy)|Swerve (Universe Chevy)]]", we try to keep the character page titles as short and sweet as possible. With that, I'd also propose that we move "Dinobot II" to "Dinobot (TM2)" because I don't recall him ever being referred to by that name in the cartoon and it certainly wasn't the name given to the toy. As far as I can tell that was just something the sourcebook added to differentiate between multiple characters with the same name (e.g. Magnaboss II and Silverbolt II). We've also tried to move away from those sourcebook naming conventions due to a lot of them being incorrect or misleading in the wider scheme of things, especially for the Japanese characters. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 01:48, 13 June 2021 (EDT)
::TM2 Dinobot was referred to as "Dinobot 2" in the Dreamwave Summer Special and as "Dinobot II" in Beast Wars Sourcebook. It's not a thing we made up. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 08:14, 18 June 2021 (EDT)
:I continue to be opposed to inventing "compound tags" that aren't canonical terms. "Magnaboss" is a canonical term, just as much as "Stunticon," and I don't think it's so confusing to potential readers seeing it that they wouldn't think to click the link and understand just how it was possible. My votes: Silverbolt (G1), Silverbolt (Magnaboss), Prowl (Magnaboss), Prowl (TM2), Silverbolt (Fuzor). --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 10:51, 14 June 2021 (EDT)
::As I had just stated on [[Talk:Silver Bolt]] and [[Talk:Prowl (Magnaboss)]], I'm actually in favour of using the "(Magnaboss)" parentheticals for all three of the Magnaboss components, after seeing how it looks as an actual page title. It unifies them and is simple and the most effective imo. I am still 100% against using the animal alt-modes in the titles as it just looks unprofessional and made up, as Thylacine had more or less pointed out. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 05:38, 18 June 2021 (EDT)
:::If we ''really'' have to, we could always make it "(BW Magnaboss)" as a happy medium. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 05:42, 18 June 2021 (EDT)
::::That's redundant. "Magnaboss" is simple and straight to the point. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 10:09, 18 June 2021 (EDT)

== Rethinking Shattered Glass as a franchise/continuity family ==

Between the “Shards” mini-series, the new Generations Selects toys, and an increasing amount of high end collector statues, it seems like the concept of a ''Transformers'' mirror universe isn’t going away any time soon. All mirrorverse fiction since the original comic has latched onto the title “Shattered Glass”, even when that name hasn’t been applied to that particular fiction, creating “ghost” franchises like “Shattered Glass ''Animated''” and “Shattered Glass ''Movie''”. Given that these have no bearing on actual franchises – there’s no “real” “Shattered Glass ''Cybertron''”, for example – I’m proposing that we treat “Shattered Glass” as less of a series of franchises and more as one big continuity family.

It’s true that:

a) continuity families are a fake idea made up by the wiki to allow for easier organisation

b) big concepts that span numerous franchises go on one article, e.g. [[Autobot]], [[Decepticon]], [[Cybertron (planet)]]

c) sometimes two characters from different continuity families share a page when they are either straight up the same guy ([[Side Burn (RID)]], [[Sky-Byte (RID)]]), or when their appearance is so negligible that it’s barely worth splitting them ([[Buckshot]], [[Reachout (TF 2010)]])

Given the above, I propose that all of “Shattered Glass” be treated as one continuity family, with subheadings for G1 (the club fiction, “Expectations”, “Recordicons”, SD SG, “Shards”), ''Animated'' (lithographs, bios), ''Movie'' (''Forged to Fight'', high-end statues/merchandise), and whatever other mirror universes are concerned. Character articles should be moved to (SG) namespaces and merged where appropriate.

I’ve whipped up a rough concept for Optimus Prime in my [[User:TheLastGherkin/Sandbox:Shat|sandbox]]. Let me know what you think of this idea below or on the Discord server. [[User:TheLastGherkin|TheLastGherkin]] ([[User talk:TheLastGherkin|talk]]) 07:29, 14 June 2021 (EDT)
: Absolutely against this. It might be fine for Prime, but there is nothing linking SG Goldbug with SG Animated Bumblebee, for example. We can stand having a few smaller articles, not everything should be merged. We aren't Wikipedia, and I don't want to see this implemented. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 09:54, 14 June 2021 (EDT)
::I kinda like this idea, ''but'' I can also see where this could get ''very'' complicated, ''very'' fast, it's definitely not a "one size fits all" type of solution, as Escargon has stated. If nothing else, I think a continuity family page for SG (if we don't already have one) would be a good idea to have the concept laid out in the one place, since it has been used all across the franchise, but combining character articles and such is definitely looking like a possible issue. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 10:07, 14 June 2021 (EDT)
::Bumblebee would be the exception. An ideal SG Bumblebee article would start with a G1 section to the effect of "Bumblebee was small and looked like Cliffjumper; for more information see Goldbug (SG)" followed by the two relatively similar, quiet-spoken backstabber versions from Animated and Forged to Fight. [[User:TheLastGherkin|TheLastGherkin]] ([[User talk:TheLastGherkin|talk]]) 10:16, 14 June 2021 (EDT)
:::I'm really not sure about that. What's the point of folding them together if you're going to split one of the most prominent ones out? It's all or nothing, in my opinion. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 10:19, 14 June 2021 (EDT)
::::Even more than that, there's characters like Rhinox; there's nothing linking the gag character with the morally ambiguous TransTech one. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 10:22, 14 June 2021 (EDT)
::::And before anyone brings up classic examples like Marvel v Sunbow guys, those were characters based on the same toys. Not quite the same with SG guys. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 10:24, 14 June 2021 (EDT)
:::::The one thing I agree is that we should have a page compiling all Shattered Glass universes and listing them the same way we do with continuity family pages, like [[Movie continuity family]] for example. Put SG G1 as the "major continuity" and the others as minor. We need this page because most (if not all) SG pages direct to [[Transformers: Shattered Glass (franchise)|Shattered Glass (franchise)]] and that's just plain wrong when we're dealing with SG Animated or SG Movie. All character pages should remain separate, but a singular SG page explaining everything is more than needed. --[[User:Fritz|Fritz]] ([[User talk:Fritz|talk]]) 12:54, 14 June 2021 (EDT)
:::::: On that I absolutely agree. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 13:11, 14 June 2021 (EDT)

:Oof, no. Now, "Shattered Glass" might could use a page for it as a CONCEPT, sticking to out-of-universe discussion of it and how it's been applied to stuff outside the original series. But... not this. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 17:19, 14 June 2021 (EDT)
::I mean, sure, we don't have to treat it as "one big continuity", explaining how the concept expanded is enough. I just think that a page simply listing all instances of a new SG-based universe is going to be important as time goes on if the concept keeps getting revisited. ''And'' would make more sense as a linked page than to link SG Movie Optimus to the original SG franchise page when they have no real connection. It's as wrong as if we claimed that "[[Fire Prime]] is an Autobot from the [[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2001 franchise)|RID]] Animated continuity family". Unless we just use the current SG page for these purposes, but I don't see that as the better option. --[[User:Fritz|Fritz]] ([[User talk:Fritz|talk]]) 19:10, 14 June 2021 (EDT)
:::Honestly, if the aim of this is to try and clear up minor pages people don't want, surely it would make more sense to merge the Shattered Glass versions with the ones they're explicitly spinning off from - ie merge SG Animated into Animated pages. (I am not suggesting this as an actual idea.) Shattered Glass is just the transformers name for "evil mirror version" which stuck around, and no-one is saying we should merge all Nemesis Primes from every continuity family together because they share conceptual DNA and a name. [[User:AkibaSilver|AkibaSilver]] ([[User talk:AkibaSilver|talk]]) 19:26, 14 June 2021 (EDT)

== Japanese retail ==

In the process of whipping up a comprehensive list of campaign items (those "buy toy X or Y amount of merchandise and you get this fancy exclusive redeco for free" thingies), the current progress of which can be seen [[User:Nevermore/Sandbox/Campaign item|here]], I've discovered that a lot of the writeups for those individual items are oftentimes based on very rough Google translations, and never fixed.

As a result, I've encountered several instances of the same store being given multiple different names, such as "Eiden", "Ideon" and "Eidon" for Edion (which is the spelling in the company's website URL and official logo), or even worse, "White Peony" and "Shirobotan" (or "Shiro Botan") for Hakubotan (again, the spelling in the company's website URL).

Additionally, there is the occasional bad grammar such as "He was an exclusive in Japan to Edion toy counter" or "Japanese stores like [...] Yamada Denki toy department", sometimes chains like "AEON", "EDION" and "BIC Camera" are spelled in ALLCAPS, and the original writeups made it seem like "Hakuhinkan Toy Park Ginza" and "Shiro Botan Ishinomaki" were both the names of chains with multiple stores, when in fact the stores in question were supposedly specific stores, namely the Hakuhinkan Toy Park main store ''in'' Ginza (Toyko's main shipping district) and the Hakubotan store inside the Aeon mall ''in'' Ishinomaki.

I assume these inconsistencies are the result of different people adding those writeups, but geez, what a mess.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 07:39, 16 June 2021 (EDT)
:AAAAAND it turns out that AEON and JUSCO are one and the same company. JUSCO used to be a subsidiary of the larger AEON orporation, but the JUSCO stores in Japan all changed their name to AEON in 2011.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] ([[User talk:Nevermore|talk]]) 08:46, 16 June 2021 (EDT)

==Weapons==
Lately I've been going through (mostly) old Marvel stuff to nail down in-fiction appearances of G1 weapons - see [[Electro-kinetic blaster]], [[Plasma-shell shotgun]], and [[Thermal melter]] for examples. I'm thinking of adding something to the Notes section similar to the "Gadgets and Powers" we do for cartoon episodes but for weapon shout-outs in the comics, perhaps titled "Courtesy of my..." as a more ordered way of keeping track of them. Does anyone have any feelings on that one way or the other? --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] ([[User talk:Emvee|talk]]) 08:48, 18 June 2021 (EDT)

== Request ==

[[Talk:Transformers Legends (comic)#Controversy section]]-if somebody's willing to take this up, I'd appreciate it. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 14:03, 22 June 2021 (EDT)

==Separate voice actor categories by series?==
This is just an off-the-cuff idea, but would it be useful create categories for voice actors that appear in a specific TF series? For example, Peter Cullen would be under "TF 1984 voice actors" (or however we'd title it) and "Prime voice actors," David Kaye in "Beast Wars voice actors" and "Animated voice actors" and so on and so forth. I'm not suggesting these would replace the "English voice actors" category, they would just be in addition to it. Now, granted, I don't know if we would/should separate any Japanese (and other languages) voice actors and make separate categories for each language, which would probably get out of hand or be too much. Or we just lump the non-English VAs with the English ones for each series. Again, this is just a random idea I had and thought I would put it out there for consideration. I totally understand if there is no need or desire for such a thing to be implemented. [[User:Turborun|Turborun]] ([[User talk:Turborun|talk]]) 20:59, 1 July 2021 (EDT)

== Hershey's Kisses Treasure Surprise ==

I just stumbled across some of these that I had forgotten that I had received for Christmas. They are tiny figurines of TF characters packed with four Hershey's Kisses in a light blue clamshell container with a cardboard label wrapper (white card, printed with yellow background to the logos and pictures). The packaging says "Collect all five!" I have only two, but each had a different figurine: Optimus Prime and Starscream. The packaging also shows Bumblebee. To my eyes, the Starscream looks like the Classics design, but they are pretty generic (and my eyes ain't that great). Has anybody else seen these? Where should they be documented? [[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 09:47, 11 July 2021 (EDT)
:I've seen them around in the occasional CVS as well, actually; the full list is Optimus, Megatron, Bumblebee, Starscream, and Grimlock, and they all seem to be Evergreen/Cyberverse designs. As for where they should go, I'm honestly not sure. Probably a small page of its own similar to Candy Toy, and a quick write-up in each character's toy or merch section, though I'm not sure whether to list them as G1 or Cyberverse. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 11:21, 11 July 2021 (EDT)
::To my understanding we've been putting anything Evergreen-inspired under G1, except when they're specifically labeled as Cyberverse. So if the packaging only says "Transformers" and not "Cyberverse", I think they belong to G1. --[[User:Fritz|Fritz]] ([[User talk:Fritz|talk]]) 12:51, 11 July 2021 (EDT)

== Reintegration of Hasbroverse wiki content ==

I think we should consider migrating the content from the IDW Hasbro Wiki back here. The addition of another wiki made sense as a preemptive measure when the shared universe was first announced and we had no idea how long it was going to run, but with just two years of content, there really didn't end up being all that much, and a sizable chunk of the non-TF books and related content live here already, either fully or partially. The number of links out on [[Rom]]'s page, for example, is rather low. Plus it just looks kinda silly when we have issues [[Wrath of Karza issue 1|#1]], [[Wrath of Karza issue 4|#4]], and [[Wrath of Karza issue 5|#5]] of a series on the wiki, but not {{i|Wrath of Karza issue 2|#2}} or {{i|Wrath of Karza issue 3|#3}}. The only major sticking point is all of the pre-Revolution G.I. Joe issues, which would be a *big* ask to include. I'd be curious to get other folks' thoughts on the matter, though. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 01:16, 23 July 2021 (EDT)

I think the Hasbroverse is Transformers centric enough to be moved to TFwiki, with GI Joe possibly being an exception.
[[User:MrRald|MrRald]] ([[User talk:MrRald|talk]]) 01:26, 23 July 2021 (EDT)
: I’m fine with post-Revolution stuff being incorporated. It still drives me bonkers that the last Visionaries story isn’t covered here despite 95% of that storyline being here. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 02:00, 23 July 2021 (EDT)
::As for pre-Revolution G.I. Joe, we don't include all of Marvel G.I. Joe either despite both the G1 and G2 crossovers. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] ([[User talk:Dark T Zeratul|talk]]) 05:04, 23 July 2021 (EDT)

:::It sorta makes sense now. I doubt there will be an attempt to make another shared universe anytime soon. I assume there's a semi-reliable Joe wiki we could link to for the pre-Revolution/post Transformers material, if necessary. --[[User:MistaTee|MistaTee]] ([[User talk:MistaTee|talk]]) 10:06, 23 July 2021 (EDT)
::::Sensible. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 13:06, 23 July 2021 (EDT)
:::::I think the current IDW Hasbroverse wiki could just be converted to solely IDW Joe, since I don't believe the general G.I. Joe wiki is very comprehensive. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 13:25, 23 July 2021 (EDT)
::::::The general GI Joe wiki is nearly moribund. As an admin there, I invite anyone who wants to to come in and help. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 15:58, 23 July 2021 (EDT)
Can't help with this at all but sounds good, have at it [[User:Notsoalex|--notsoalex]] ([[User talk:Notsoalex|talk]]) 00:25, 25 July 2021 (EDT)
:Echoing others that folding in the remainder of the content between Revolution and Unicron is just sensible and we can cross the Joe bridge when we come to it. -[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 10:49, 25 July 2021 (EDT)
I'm gonna leave the discussion open for a few more days to make sure everyone who wants a say can have one, but this seems pretty unanimous so far. That said, while I'm thinking of it, what do we want to do about Jem? The stance on coverage over there is "{{i|Jem and the Holograms (franchise)#Canonicity of Jem in the IDW Hasbro Universe|the characters are canon to Hasbroverse, but the books and stories themselves are not, but we're going to cover them anyway}}". Thus as something that's kinda-sorta-but-not-really related, is that too far outside of scope to carry over, or should those articles be migrated too? -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 20:08, 26 July 2021 (EDT)
:I wouldn't include Jem (or Clue) here. Only media actually in continuity with IDW TF. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 20:52, 26 July 2021 (EDT)

Well, that's good enough for me. I'm starting a [[User:Cyberlink420/IDWSandbox|central hub]] to keep track of all that pages that need to be moved over or merged with existing pages. Please add to this list as you find pages that need migrating or complete the process. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 15:37, 6 August 2021 (EDT)
:'''''Further discussion on this topic has moved to [[User talk:Cyberlink420/IDWSandbox|this page]]; please provide your input.''''' -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 19:57, 6 August 2021 (EDT)

== Pre-''Transformers'' repurposing documentation ==

Hey all, I had been wondering if we should document the repurposings of left over pre-''Transformers'' products in the toy sections instead of the notes sections? Or even both maybe?

I threw together a quick '''[[User:Fanofcoolstuff27/sandbox/Pre-Transformers toys|sandbox]]''' of a couple of ideas I had. The first was just listing them all under the blanket term-header "Pre-''Transformers''" and the other was using their actual franchise of origin as a header (e.g. Diaclone, Micro Change, Microman, etc.).

I just figured that since we document fictional toys of characters that appear in comics etc. under the toy sections, wouldn't it also make sense to add the repurposed Pre-G1 toys? It especially makes sense (to me at least) when a lot of those toys or characters appeared in fiction long before any e-HOBBY, MP or Selects releases of those characters were made, and some of them haven't received official ''Transformers'' updates at all.

Let me know your thoughts. --[[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 00:07, 1 August 2021 (EDT)
:I believe the central debate here will be whether we consider these toys "in-scope." I do think this structure would generally be more user friendly than what we're doing at present if folks do not consider it a bridge too far. With regards to your sandbox, I would say the most sensible title structure would be the bottom one, as there's no sense in playing coy about the names of these toylines, with "Transformers" and "Pre-Transformers" supertitles when applicable. -[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 14:08, 4 August 2021 (EDT)

== Creating a foreign name list ==
A complete list page of all so far known foreign names and phrases. Grouped by continuity families, factions and priority. (First Optimus, Bumblebee, Megatron, Starscream...)
[[User:Kiké Prime|Kiké Prime]] ([[User talk:Kiké Prime|talk]]) 03:50, 6 August 2021 (EDT)
: [[Transformers_Wiki:Policies#We_Hate_Lists]] --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] ([[User talk:M Sipher|talk]]) 23:45, 6 August 2021 (EDT)

== Generations subline toy headers on character pages ==

I believe this has received enough support on Discord and on "[[Talk:Transformers: Generations (toyline)]]", but I am reiterating on the Community Portal for everyone in general. It has become clear that Hasbro considers "''Generations''" a catch-all branding for many unrelated lines. Thusly, though I suggested the fix in the first place, it no longer makes sense for us in a post-''Prime Wars Trilogy'' world to lump together many indented subline headers underneath "''Generations''". Concordantly, a lone ''Generations'' figure such as [[Overlord (G1)#Titans Return|''Titans Return'' Overlord]] can afford to lose the "''Generations''" label in favour of "''Titans Return''" alone. As a proof-of-concept of restoring plain chronological series order, I just overhauled "[[Galvatron (G1)/toys]]". This eliminates the ridiculous placement of the ''Generations Selects'' figure above the ''Kingdom'' figure due to technically being labelled on packaging as ''War for Cybertron Trilogy'' in tandem with the HasLab Unicron pack-in minifigure. In addition, the entry for the ''Legends'' figure is physically nearer to the entry for the contemporary ''Titans Return'' counterpart, and ''Kre-O'' can now naturally come in release order before post-''Thrilling 30'' series. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 04:50, 30 August 2021 (EDT)
:That honestly looks so much better. I've gone and done the same with "[[Megatron (G1)/Generations toys]]" so we have an idea on how it would look implemented on split out pages. I've also shifted the G2 Megatron repaints that were originally categorized under "''War for Cybertron: Siege''" and "''War for Cybertron Trilogy''" respectively to the "''Generations Selects''" header with Super Megatron. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 05:21, 30 August 2021 (EDT)
::In addition to simply reorganizing the toy headers, we really ought to be treating "Generations" like we treat "Timelines", only using it for Generations 2010 to Thrilling 30 while everything from Combiner Wars onward should be using their respective line names, including with their own disambigs. There are too many uses of "(Generations)" tags in instances where the much more direct "(CW)", "(TR)", "(POTP)", "(Selects)", "(Siege)", "(Earthrise)", and "(Kingdom)" would be far more concise. Generations stopped being the name of its own line as soon as Combiner Wars took it out of the toy packaging's main title logo and moved it to a tiny little brand logo in the corner.
::Even the tie-in media for Combiner Wars through now never used the "Generations" name. The cartoons were "Transformers: Combiner Wars", "Transformers: Titans Return", "Transformers: Power of the Primes", and "Transformers: War For Cybertron Trilogy". The comic events for Combiner Wars and Titans Return were the same only minus the "Transformers:" part. Even in the TV commercials for each line called them "Transformers: Combiner Wars" and so on, never calling them "Transformers Generations: Combiner Wars" etc.
::These aren't subline imprints, they're their own lines, and ought to be treated as such, right down to having disambiguation tags like "(CW)", "(TR)", "(POTP)", "(Siege)", "(Earthrise)", "(Kingdom)", and "(Selects)". In the cases of FOC and Thrilling 30, those did keep the title as "Transformers: Generations", so those ''were'' subline imprints and should stay as such. It also works to distinguish between Archer Era Generations (a toyline) and Warden Era Generations (an umbrella term/category).
::The current people at Hasbro call these "Generations lines" in the sense that they are each their own line belonging to an umbrella term/category rather than being the same single line that Generations used to be before the changeover of Hasbro teams in 2014-2015. It's basically become how like we would say that Beast Wars, Beast Machines, Japanese Beast Wars, and Car Robots (and arguably Animorphs) are all "Beast Era lines", or like how we'd say Armada, Energon, and Cybertron are all "Unicron Trilogy lines", or like Movie 1, ROTF, DOTM, AOE, TLK, and Bumblebee are all "Movieverse lines". Even things like half of the AOE line and all of Studio Series are officially considered "Generations lines" despite the obvious connotations of "Generations" that most fans do not associate with the Movieverse lines. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 11:26, 30 August 2021 (EDT)
:::I'm fine with changing the section headers and disambigs. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 11:41, 30 August 2021 (EDT)
::::So I'm taking that we're also changing Movieverse toy sections from "Generations" to "Studio Series". I'm down with that. --[[User:Fritz|Fritz]] ([[User talk:Fritz|talk]]) 15:11, 30 August 2021 (EDT)
:::::Hmm, you raise an interesting point. How might we implement something like this to, say, [[Bumblebee (Movie)/toys]], which has multiple different "Generations" headers and sub-headers between one-half of AOE's line, the whole of Studio Series/Movie Edition/Premium Finish, and a portion of Buzzworthy Bumblebee? --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 00:12, 31 August 2021 (EDT)
::::::My solution is, we leave the AOE portion just as it is, as it's already placed separately from the rest of Generations and in the right chronological order, and the "Generations" header is necessary there to separate those toys from the "Robots in Disguise" ones. Studio Series, Movie Edition and Premium Finish should get promoted to their own lines just like CW, TR, POTP etc, and as for Buzzworthy we should just change the "Generations" header to "Studio Series". If we all agree on this, I'd like to help implementing these changes myself. --[[User:Fritz|Fritz]] ([[User talk:Fritz|talk]]) 01:14, 31 August 2021 (EDT)

==How old should my account be?==
To make captions? [[User:Grimbee|Grimbee]] ([[User talk:Grimbee|talk]])
:It's not about age. Captions are meant to be a reward for users who actually put in the hard work adding proper content to the wiki. And considering you've barely contributed (and most of the things you HAVE posted are jokes, one-sentence articles, or talk page messages telling ''other people'' to do things), doing so would be in poor taste at best. Honestly, if you're only here because you want to add captions, you're better off going somewhere else. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 17:30, 6 September 2021 (EDT)

==Streamlining disambig headers==
Several on the Discord have voiced assent, so I am bringing the topic here. Our current system for putting disambig headers is unintuitive and overly complex. It creates situations like movie Sentinel who is stuck at (ROTF) thanks to a one line mention, as well as the completely jumbled mess of Aligned, with character pages at (Exodus) or (WFC) or sometimes just (Aligned) etc.

My proposal is we streamline this by just having everybody at the continuity they hail from, not the piece of it. All movie characters at (Movie) and all Unicron Trilogy characters at (Unicron Trilogy) or possibly (UT). An argument I've seen for the current system is that it specifies which part of the family somebody comes from, but the fiction section already shows what parts they are in.

Characters like RID15 Grimlock or Prime Breakdown would be exceptions to this, of course, potentially maybe suite them with the other of their name in that continuity for convenient wiki searching.
[[User:McBaggins|McBaggins]] ([[User talk:McBaggins|talk]]) 11:15, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
:Oh God a thousand times yes. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 11:19, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
I have advocated for this move before so I vote in favor.
There's also a set precedent with Strongarm (G1) being moved from Strongarm (BWU) for the sake of reader friendliness.
Simplifying the disambigs will reduce the amount of initials and individual disambigs one has to go through when searching a specific character.
[[User:MrRald|MrRald]] ([[User talk:MrRald|talk]]) 11:25, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
:I'm leaning against. Under the current system everything is handled the same way, with a limited number of (G1 Autobot) type clarifiers, but if you go by continuity family first, there are ''so'' many situations that would need further disambiguation that you'd lose all consistency.
:Just think how many Beast Era characters alone reuse G1 character names - you've instantly got huge swathes of characters who are gonna need further disambiguation. So then you potentially have a situation of "Terrorsaur (G1)" versus "Inferno (BW)", where guys originating in the same thing have got a random assortment of disambig tags. So maybe you make an exception for Beast Era and use (BW) and (BM) by default, but then you're starting to get half way back to the current system...
:I'm not really convinced of an "ease of searching" logic because that's not what disambig tags are for, they're just a technical thing because we can't name multiple pages the same thing. If you're looking for a certain Hound, you can just type "Hound" into the search bar and pick the right one off a nice disambig page list, you don't have to try and guess at what the disambig is. (And while it obviously shouldn't be a main reason for any decisions, the amount of link changes and page moves this would require would be absolutely insane.) [[User:Jalaguy|Jalaguy]] ([[User talk:Jalaguy|talk]]) 11:34, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
::I definitely agree with ''not'' throwing BW/BM characters down the G1 hole and then having to build ladders of exceptions back out for every name reuse. If we're going to try this at all, start with something that would need the fewest ad hoc fixes possible. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 12:11, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
:Not voting one way or another, but just wanted to say that the (WFC)/(Prime) and (Movie)/(ROTF)/(DOTM)/(etc) distinctions are the ones that have actually bothered me in the past. These are the ones where many prominent characters from later instalments share pages with super minor ones from the previous instalments. Conversely, I don't like the idea of merging (BW) and (BM). But creating merges for (Aligned) and (Movie) would solve a lot of headaches. (And, as a side note, the acronym WFC refers to SO many things now.) —[[User:The Wadapan|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 11:47, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
::Instead of trying to change ''almost everything'' with a few exceptions, why not just simply zero in on making "(Aligned)" the main exceptional change? Since it's probably the one that needs the treatment of this proposal the most. For the characters who share names, I'd say neither would get to use the "(Aligned)" tag out of fairness. Like how we currently have the two BW Silverbolts at disambigs other than "(BW)". The two Sideswipes would remain at "(WFC)" and "(RID)", for instance. Same with the two Grimlocks, the two Kickbacks, the two Bludgeons, etc. Luckily, I think most shared-name cases are either with equally minor characters or equally major characters, the biggest exception I see being the Prime and COP Predakings. Maybe a suite could link those two together (along with all the other Prime and COP Predacons) since while each is their own separate person the implication of each Prime one being cloned from the COP ones suggests a biological connection between each one. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 11:48, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
::: I think the whole system could use serious overhaul but I definitely see the value in taking baby steps. Aligned seems to be the one that has the worst current system and the easiest fix so I'm all for giving it a shot. If it works, great, if not we've learned something. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 12:00, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
::::Thinking more about this, I'm beginning to feel that maybe not ''every'' single-named Aligned character necessarily needs the "(Aligned)" tag. Some do, certainly, like those who have appeared across nearly all of the fiction spanning all of the eras. Optimus, Bumblebee, Megatron, Starscream, Jazz, who were in all/most of the games, books, ''and'' cartoons should get it. But if someone was only in the games, or only in one cartoon, then maaaaaybe they should be considered less of a priority for the "(Aligned)" tag. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 12:24, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::I think I would prefer just moving over the video game characters (and that dumb pop-up disambig) to "Prime". That was the main spine to Aligned, and it's weird how we got pedantic over video games and pretended they were "franchises". [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 12:32, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
In favor of tackling Aligned first, then thinking about other continuity headings later and separately. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 12:44, 17 September 2021 (EDT)

I just ran the numbers, and if we were to roll with this plan, 296 character pages would need to be moved from their current disambig to "(Aligned)", while 48 would be left as is due to someone or something else with the same name in that continuity. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 13:09, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
:I am for this change. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 18:42, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
::I am down for starting with moving Aligned characters. I think this would help tremendously, especially if it expands to G1 and more (almost made me wish it had a better name but what ya gonna do) [[User:Notsoalex|--notsoalex]] ([[User talk:Notsoalex|talk]]) 15:49, 18 September 2021 (EDT)

I agree with using Alligned as the guinea pig for all the reasons stated above. [[User:MrRald|MrRald]] ([[User talk:MrRald|talk]]) 17:21, 18 September 2021 (EDT)

It sounds like a good idea to me in the long run. Aligned always felt messy as it is now, with so many different potential origin points for characters. I imagine a newer fan might find it confusing.[[User:ParadoxFactor|ParadoxFactor]] ([[User talk:ParadoxFactor|talk]]) 18:07, 18 September 2021 (EDT)

Absolutely ''against'' using "Aligned". It's not an official designation, it's never been an official designation, and while it's entrenched enough that there's little point in expunging all our uses of it, we shouldn't be using it for disambiguations. That said, considering WFOC to be part of the Prime franchise is something I could get behind. As to an overall "disambiguate by continuity family" approach... mmmnnh I'm not dead-set against it, but it's been debated many, many times in the past, and the decision's always come down to "franchise not family". --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 18:54, 18 September 2021 (EDT)
:I think I agree with avoiding "Aligned" for disambigs. Folding WFC, FOC, and COP into Prime would solve a lot of people's issues with the Aligned disambigs, I think. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 20:06, 18 September 2021 (EDT)
::That's treating a symptom and not the disease. Pretending that they're from a different franchise because if you're too strict about which franchises 'count' you get gibberish is a bandaid. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 22:03, 18 September 2021 (EDT)
:::I dunno, WFC, Exodus and Prime were all treated as being part of the same initiative back when they first came out, right? "Prime" is the only part of that with actual franchise branding, so I don't think it's unreasonable to consider them part of the same thing. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 21:15, 19 September 2021 (EDT)
::::It's absolutely not unreasonable to consider them all part of the same thing. But that thing is Aligned, not Prime. WFC was absolutely not Prime branded. And that's the whole point of this. IMO. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 23:01, 19 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::While we're focused on using Aligned as a guinea pig, it should be mentioned, however, "aligned" IS just a word. I watched an interview with FJ Desanto and he mentioned Hasbro wishes Cyberverse and WFC to match up since they are part of an aligned continuity, so key moments should match up like Optimus throwing the Allspark. Idk verbatim but I'm sure I can find it, and I'm SUPER sure they used aligned [[User:Notsoalex|--notsoalex]] ([[User talk:Notsoalex|talk]]) 11:34, 20 September 2021 (EDT)

Hypothetically, potentially, in an imaginary alternate universe... is it possible to switch everything back? The next live-action movie is going to be about Beasts and so is its tie-in media. If they invent Movie Manterror and Movie Tigatron, then we're going to have to disambig the prior characters as being from G1 and not BW. And, uh, no. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 13:41, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:BW is not going to be folded back into G1, period. Any BW characters stay (BW), and in that hypothetical scenario, those pages would get moved to Manterror (BW) and Tigatron (BW). -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 13:46, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
::But then we're using a blatant double standard out of sentimental favoritism, on a huge, un-ignorable, wiki-wide scale. And we shouldn't do that. If we're going to keep the distinctiveness of Beast Wars, we should keep that of Victory. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 14:20, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:::The next movie isn't going to be a Beast Wars movie, though. It's going be a "Rise of the Beasts" movie. Any new Manterror or Tigatron introduced in that movie would have a "(ROTB)" tag. If the movie was to be called "Transformers: Beast Wars", ''then'' we'd have a problem. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 14:26, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
::::The title of the movie isn't the point. Once there is a shared character name, all with that name get disambigs. There is no "default" Inferno. So once we have to disambig everyone effected, either we stay consistent with our Sept2021 system and disambig "old" Tigatron and Manterror as G1, or we work with multiple different systems for the same function on the same wiki based on subjective favoritism mostly shaped by how old people were when they first found the hobby. EDIT: actually it isn't hypothetical, if we're sticking with the Sept2021 system then Quickstrike (BW) and Depth Charge (BW) must now be disambigged as G1, or we're saying after about 20 hours that we're already largely ignoring our new system but still keeping it around to create confusion. Welcome to Hell. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 14:32, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::Huh? Isn't the Beast Era as a whole already treated as a special case, an umbrella thing, in the same vein as say, "Unicron Trilogy"? I know on a strict continuity sense it's all quote unquote Primax, but the point of this move is a "let's not be nerds about this" thing. AOE Lockdown being at Lockdown (ROTF) is kinda weird; that's what this is about. —[[User:The Wadapan|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 15:13, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
::::::Beast Era is definitely a special case, otherwise we would have BW Megatron on a different page than G1 Megatron. (And don't say 'but they met each other' because Transformers meet other versions of themselves all the time.) There are also things like [[Strongarm (G1)]] and I do note that we don't have [[Trypticon (G1)]] under [[Trypticon (Scramble City)]] even though he appeared there before anywhere else. We make exceptions all the time when it makes sense to do so. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 15:27, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::::BW and BM and their Japanese spinoffs are within the G1 continuity family, no more or less than Masterforce is within G1, no more or less than AOE and ROTF are both within Movie. Unicron Trilogy is its own continuity family, like Movie and G1; it is a higher category than Beast Era. I don't think we've ever made a policy of "treating the Beast Era as a special case" to the degree that we dissolve some major franchises of origin but not others. That doesn't make it easier, because it creates ''dozens to hundreds'' of exceptions that everybody has to actively remember forever, and if someone ever asks why we're doing it, the answer is just "We like the cartoon from 1999 better than the cartoon from 2003, and ''make sure you remember that'', maybe tie a rubber band around your finger or make up a little rhyme to help you." '''We should really turn back, gang'''. We just passed Obsidian (G1), Blastcharge (G1), Hamerstrike (G1), Strika (G1), Tankor (G1)....--[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 15:35, 20 September 2021 (EDT)

Okay, so, I was tentatively in favour of the change to the WFC/FOC disambigs on the basis of them being games rather than franchises, but I had forgotten that there were Generations (etc) toys released with that branding. I am very much against disambiguating based on continuity, and ''especially'' using an unofficial name like Aligned for that. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 19:03, 20 September 2021 (EDT)

==Simplifying Japanese toyline disambigs==
Related tangent—an idea I had was to simplify (Headmasters), (Masterforce), (Victory), and (Zone) to just (G1), with obvious exceptions like the Zone faction-switch Microtransformers (and I guess Ricochet since there's already a G1 Ricochet <s>maybe we should move that to Stepper</s>). The same would apply for (BWII) and (BWN) to (BW). Both eras were functionally sold under the general G1 and BW lines by Takara, after all.

And the various (SL), (Adventure), (LOTM), etc disambigs would default to their Hasbro counterpart lines. This thing is being more pedantic than we need to. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:04, 17 September 2021 (EDT)

[[User:Saix/sandbox|Listing of pages with Japanese disambigs.]] [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:49, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
:As someone who has been slowly going through and changing all of our JG1 toy headers to the accurate F!SRLT ones, I am all for this simplification. [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 18:41, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
::Likewise. Much more straightforward for the casual reader. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 18:53, 17 September 2021 (EDT)
:https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Star_Saber_(disambiguation)
:So under the proposed system, would it be the main page saying "Star Saber (G1)", nothing changed further? Or would that disambig page now additionally say "''G1'' Star Saber" and "Star Saber, the Supreme Commander from G1"? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 11:59, 18 September 2021 (EDT)
::Either way is fine to me. I'm not that invested in disambiguation wording. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 13:26, 18 September 2021 (EDT)
:This is an obviously good idea. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 17:25, 18 September 2021 (EDT)
This is definitely a change for the better.
[[User:MrRald|MrRald]] ([[User talk:MrRald|talk]]) 17:29, 18 September 2021 (EDT)
:This is a pretty straightforward extension of the toy section streamlining initiative already underway. I echo others that this would absolutely be a win for reader accessibility. No sense hairsplitting by what is essentially country of origin. -[[User:AzimuthAcolyte|AzimuthAcolyte]] ([[User talk:AzimuthAcolyte|talk]]) 18:19, 18 September 2021 (EDT)
:I'm in favour of this, yeah, assuming "if there's a preexisting G1 character of the same name, we keep the JG1 subline disambig". --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 18:49, 18 September 2021 (EDT)

i'm glad i looked away for exactly two days and we've decided to just start recategorizing the entire damn wiki under continuity family rather than franchise of origin --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 19:24, 19 September 2021 (EDT)
:goddamn we deliberated longer on splitting out non-G1 versions of the magnaboss guys... and this was kind of a major-ass overhaul --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 19:29, 19 September 2021 (EDT)
::As I said, I'm in favour of this change — rooted in "Japan treated all the various lines as part of the G1/BW franchises", not "reorganising based on continuity family" — but, yeah, it's been THREE DAYS. We absolutely can't treat "well there wasn't any disagreement" as basis to make these kinds of sweeping changes so quickly. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 21:18, 19 September 2021 (EDT)
While I am in favor of what's been done, it seems to highlight the problem I have with us using Discord. The presentation of this proposal here seemed to me to imply that the discussion on Discord had favored it and it was pretty much good to go. I assumed that Walky and others who had previously opposed such moves had weighed in there. I really don't agree with the idea of discussions that affect the wiki being held off site. It's too "secret cabal" for me. --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] ([[User talk:Khajidha|talk]]) 09:50, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:THANK YOU. The Discordification of the wiki is one of the worst things to ever happen to it. Every major change made here should be based on a discussion that is held ''here,'' with a transparent and permanent record of it. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 09:55, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
::I made this argument back when major decisions were being made on the Allspark wiki thread. Once the Discord was launched, and I was told major decisions would not be made on another webpage but an entirely different platform I would have to download in order to follow, I chose to quit contributing for a year. I agree that it smells of "secret cabal". Decisions about wiki content and policies should be made on the wiki, visible to everyone. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 10:04, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:::Policy on the Discord has always been that regardless of any discussion there, all major changes should be brought up and discussed here on the talk pages to have everything on record and avoid this very scenario. That's why this thread even exists. The recent moves are not "secret cabal", it's one person rushing into things before due process had a chance to run its course. (And Thylacine and Xaaron, considering I've seen you both post in the AllSpark thread, another source for off-site wiki discussion that now no longer has a record thereof, I don't think you have room to criticize the "Discordization" of the wiki. If you choose to participate in off-site discussion on one site but think another is over the line, that's exclusively on you.) -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 11:25, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
::::I participated in the AllSpark wiki thread because it was often necessary to be involved ''there'' about decisions ''here'', while also advocating that that shouldn't be the case at the same time. I can't point to the occasional rant I had about it on Allspark anymore after their attack, but you can see here in Archive65, "Other versions of character" where I complain about people announcing major changes on Allspark instead of the Community Portal. And, like Thy said, at least I could find the Allspark discussions. I tried to learn Discord during the Allspark/Pete thing, and I found it impossible to find/follow a conversation that was only hours old at the time. So, once the process of off-site discussions was both something I disagreed with AND something I couldn't follow even if I tried, I stopped being involved in the site community. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] ([[User talk:Xaaron|talk]]) 12:18, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
::::There was never a major change made based on the AS thread, there ''certainly'' wasn't the pervasive attitude of "Why are you reverting such-and-such, this was already worked out on the Discord" for the AS thread, and also at least the AS thread was in the same format as our wiki pages so you could go back and quickly follow the sequence of a threaded discussion from years ago if you'd wanted to. Stuff on Discord scrolls away if you're not looking and unless someone specifically searches for it they'd never even see the discussion at all. You are correct that the AS thread now has no record - but that is a bug, not a feature, as it was erased along with the entire Allspark board, and I don't expect anyone will try to make a new one, precisely because such vulnerabilities are now obvious. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 11:47, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:::Also, Discord doesn't require you to download anything; you can [https://discord.com/ use the browser-based version] just fine. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 11:36, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
::::I think Discord is a fine place to brainstorm, drum up support for an idea, figure out what some of the pros and cons are of any given proposal. But enthusiastic support for an idea on Discord should not be taken as a reason to bypass discussion here. I'm enthusiastically in favor of this change and even I think it was implemented too quickly. Discord people (of whom I'm one), voicing your support and reasoning there is no substitute for voicing it here. But I'd like to push back on the notion that there's anything secret about it, it's a very open forum and can be fantastic for hashing out half-formed thoughts without having to take such a black-and-white stand on every issue. I think Saix just jumped the gun. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 11:49, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::Just chiming in as one of the Discord mods to say that we have been trying our best to direct important changes here. I think the instantaneous nature of the Discord makes it easy to end up in a rush over things. However, I think the "live" nature of it has genuinely helped reduce the number of heated arguments like those that happen on talkpages/threads, because miscommunications seem to happen less often and can be cleared up faster; it's a shame that it's introduced problems of its own. The intent absolutely isn't to obfuscate! Speaking historically, the reason the wiki Discord was made was to try and merge two groups of editors—those posting in the Allspark thread, and those posting in the Allspark Discord—which, honestly, was a status quo that much more closely (if inadvertently) resembled a secret cabal. The current setup is broadly an improvement over that; it's not perfect, but hopefully people can get used to the "brainstorm there, table here" approach we've been trying to push and we'll see less of these problems over time, rather than more. —[[User:The Wadapan|The Wadapan]] ([[User talk:The Wadapan|talk]]) 12:40, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
::::::When it comes to off-site discussions, we have always been directed by both the admins of the wiki and the moderators of the Discord server to bring our topics up either here or on the respective talk pages. The input here always gets taken as the "true" vote no matter what, whereas most discussions on Discord are as Jim and Wads have said, just throwing around ideas and brainstorming, which can be very beneficial for filtering out the "dumb" and/or half-formed ideas before presenting the well-thought out ones here. That being said, Saix's actions yesterday should not be taken as the collective work of any off-site discussions. Most of us weren't even aware that he had already started moving stuff until Walky brought up his concerns here after the fact. But yeah, it seems that the Discord's instantaneous real-time reply system has made a few of us forget that talk page and portal discussions aren't as fast and that some users aren't around every hour of every day, leaving us with moments where things get changed a little ''too'' hastily before everyone has had a chance to see it or respond to it. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 12:53, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::::We should probably move all of the talk about off-site discussion to a different header, as it seems we've gone overboard with it. --[[User:DDog|DDog]] ([[User talk:DDog|talk]]) 12:59, 20 September 2021 (EDT)

Okay, just to make things very clear and stop discussions getting mixed up: '''this section is about the proposal to use (G1) disambigs for late-JG1 and (BW) disambigs for BWII/BWN, ''because they are considered the same franchise in Japan'''''. BWII toys were sold under ''Beast Wars: Super Lifeform Transformers'', Victory was sold under ''Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers''. This has nothing to do with the "disambiguate by continuity family" proposal, which is in the section ''above'' this one. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 18:59, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:Also moving Japanese franchise disambigs to their American counterparts (e.g. LOTM to Armada, Adventure to RID2015, etc.), except in instances where two characters with the same name exist. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 19:17, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
::I have reinserted those remarks where they belonged. The "disambig by continuity instead of by franchise because Japan" is no longer a "proposal," ''it has already happened,'' and I think it's a mistake that rather seriously breaks the wiki which is why I asked several times for it to be undone, at least until people could vote on it in the light of day. I do not see "because Japan" as a worthwhile reason. Once we create "Overlord (G1)," there is no internally consistent reason to have a "Quickstrike (BW)." Someone born in 2003 who never heard of ''any'' Transformers pre-Animated will have no idea why we are breaking up certain series or characters, and for them to get it they'll have to learn a lot of background about Transformers ''before they can start actually learning about Transformers.'' Upthread I saw a bunch of people say the equivalent of "Obviously this is a great idea!", with none of them explaining exactly what was so great about it. Would anyone care to start? Preferably after this radical change has been reversed, so people can decide in good faith whether or not it's good instead of feeling like they have to come to terms with a diktat that was forced on them? Thanks. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 19:52, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:::Moving back because you're continuing to miss the point. Moving late JG1 to G1 and BWII/Neo to BW isn't being done by continuity family, it's because they were being sold as G1/BW toys. They're not franchises, they're sublines. By the same token, if we have Overlord (Masterforce), we should move Darksteel (Prime) to Darksteel (Beast Hunters). The treatment of JG1 and JBW as full franchises in place of sublines is rooted in misunderstanding from over a decade ago, and the passage of time has allowed us to gain a better understanding of what these lines actually were. Hence why JG1's and JBW's toyline pages were merged back into their parent toyline pages ''a year ago''. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 20:02, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
::::Also going to point out that Overlord was at Overlord (G1) ''until'' 2009. [[User:Escargon|Escargon]] ([[User talk:Escargon|talk]]) 20:03, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::If toy packaging and instructions support "flattening" the G1s and BWs into G1 and BW, then, okay, fine. That IS how we do things. That is the letter of our law. What sent off my alarm bells is the flattening, which felt very "we're changing fundamentally how we're organizing things," away from franchise-of-origin, and also the doing it in two days. I actually didn't see the ACTUAL "let's do this by continuity family" discussion one subheader above until later! Which I guess is alarm bells vindicated, I dunno. And that's a whole other thing. But: It's just, like, if you're going to move literally hundreds of pages... give it more than two days. Give me a heads up, even. (Though I really have a feeling Saix wanted to get this done before I found out. It's a feeling.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 22:25, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
::::::Entirely fair. I will say that I think that, while the pages ''shouldn't'' have been moved to begin with, I don't think we should go through the huge ordeal of moving them back until we ''have'' come to an agreement on this just to prevent a repeated back-and-forth mass-page-move. (Of course, if people agree that the pages should be at (Masterforce) et al, absolutely move them back.) --10:05, 21 September 2021 (EDT)
::::JG1 and JBW series are repeatedly listed as franchises all over this wiki, including on the [[Franchise]] page and on their own pages. If the argument is "the instructions say Japanese-G1-font-then-Victory, so it's just a subline of G1 and not its own thing," then we are still very much hurled into the same problem I've been talking about. The late-G1 "Thunderclash windshield" logo is used on G2 and BW, so Blackarachnia is every bit as G1 as is Deathsaurus. Or are we basing this on ad hoc judgments of how prominent the older logo is, whether it's on the top or the bottom or bigger or smaller or what color they use? I also notice that [[Return of Convoy]] was ''not'' re-disambigged into G1, even though the packaging for [[Grandus (ROC)]] has the same "Fight! etc" livery and proportions as the other JG1 lines. If next week two people started to agitate for BW to get re-tagged as G1 because of the instruction font precedent, our only argument against that would be "No, we like BW too much for that" (but don't worry, we wouldn't be expected to reclassify Beast Machines, because that didn't use the late-G1 font. So Obsidian stays within Beasts, but Blackarachnia doesn't, it's easy to remember, surely friendly to new users....) This was not carefully reasoned through, and anything done by an automated script can be undone the same way. By rights people should have to make a tight and comprehensive argument both of why this change would improve the wiki and why it definitely won't reclassify other long-recognized franchises into mere sublines of G1 that now just get called G1.

::::(EDIT - moving the Overlord/Darksteel point to the end. It seems nearly all of the TF:Prime:Beast Hunters line were clearly designated as such ''except'' for Darksteel and some other Target dudes who were just TF:Beast Hunters. Really don't think people want to argue for dissolving a half-dozen long-recognized franchises because of that. That is literally the opposite of what "exception" means.--[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 10:04, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::For what it's worth, ''Return of Convoy'' was the only real line to branch out from the JG1 toyline, even if just a little. Everything before that was ''strictly'' F!SRLT, with sub-branding used for specific cases (e.g. ''The Headmasters'' for Headmaster characters, including the ones from the Masterforce cartoon, ''Targetmaster'' was used for Targetmaster characters, ''Seacons'' for the Seacons, etc, etc). ''Scramble City'' was the only exception to this, with it being used for Metroplex, Trypticon, Ultra Magnus and Galvatron, instead of just the combiners. ''Super-God Masterforce'', ''Victory'' and ''Zone'' were titles that were never used in the toyline at all. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 10:24, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
::::::I second Thylacine's proposal to include the ROC guys in the move to G1. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] ([[User talk:Jimsorenson|talk]]) 10:26, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::::Oh, I wasn't against a move for the ROC guys to G1, just pointing out the weird branding that was JG1. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 10:29, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
::::::::nobody actually do that for at least 20 seconds --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 10:43, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::::::I didn't move the ROC guys because I forgot about them, not because of any particular reasoning. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 12:17, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
::::::::::Thank you for making that clear. So we are left without the sub-brand / logo issue altogether, back at square one. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 12:57, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::::::::Are we? If the toylines don't have any mention of Masterforce, Victory, Zone et al, that feels like strong evidence for those franchises being part of G1 in Japan, exactly like Beast Hunters. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like your main point of objection is "well, we've always done it like this"... but that was because Western fandom was previously ''unaware'' that JG1 was all one large toyline. I don't think the idea is to change the disambigs while changing nothing else about our coverage; we should probably update ''all'' of the way we cover these sub-series rather than treating them as their own full franchises like we currently do. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 13:35, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
::::::::::::Because the ROC thing undermines that. If the other JG1 lines have no unique logos specifically on the boxes and instructions, and that's why they were merged into one big thing, then we've now been told several times that ROC does have those but the person who made the merge only left them out of the merge purely by accident and several pro-mergers are saying ROC should also be merged now. It looks like there isn't clear agreement on what the grounds for inclusion are. I am not against changing "what we've always done" as a matter of pure principle, but treating all of those series the way we treat subline imprints pretty radically changes the meaning of that concept. There are no other sublines (i.e. Powerlinx Battles, Primus Unleashed) that have completely separate storylines, settings, and casts. We'd surely have to keep their write-ups separate anyway, just as we do with the many many Optimus Primes that Hasbro considers to be all the same guy. What is the benefit of the change, to us and our readers? And if we ''are'' including ROC with the logo that was supposedly of equal importance that maybe it shouldn't be included but nevermind, why doesn't this suck in G2 and BW? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 14:55, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::::::::::I actually think that it's debatable whether ROC should be included, same as with Operation Combination. I will note that G2 is "Transformers: G-2" and BW is "Beast Wars: Super Lifeform Transformers"; neither has the "Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers" branding that was given to the entire rest of JG1, which firmly delineates them as separate from the original line. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 15:06, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
::::::::::::::Should have been clearer: my concern is about G2/BW disambigs being tipped into USG1, which would become in-bounds if the supposedly important distinct-toy-branding-of-ROC-keeping-it-out-of-JG1 was decided not to matter anymore. If we're making these judgments based on the level of labeling that makes something a distinct franchise, we need to be consistent. Can we at least agree on that guardrail? I'm still not embracing it - we all know Masterforce et al have their own very distinct logos that we would continue to display - but at least can understand it. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 15:29, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::Note that several Return of Convoy Autobot Micromasters also share the same names as their G1 Decepticon Micromaster counterparts, so many of those won't be receiving the "(G1)" tag anyway. But nonetheless, all of those toys were still sold under the "Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers" toyline logo. The secondary "Return of Convoy" logo they had was no different that the other secondary logos had by previous FSRLTF toys, such as "Scramble City", "The Headmasters", "Targetmaster", and "Godmaster". Thy, it really seems you're only harping on this because you can't grasp the idea that one toyline had five different cartoons in Japan (and another single toyline later had four different cartoons), when the idea of one show per cartoon has only been a thing in Hasbro's markets; a concept that Japan was never beholden to. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 16:14, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::Specifically, the only ROC characters that would be moved are Sky Garry and Grandus. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 17:34, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::::By my read - and please tell me if I got this wrong - Fanofcoolstuff says ROC is distinctive enough that it wouldn't be merged into G1, Riptide says it's a real debate and probably shouldn't merge, Saix said it would have been merged but got left out by accident, and Sabrblade says it's not so distinct after all and "nonetheless" will at least partially merge. And that was all in one day. To be very clear, I don't care about ROC. This is probably the longest conversation about ROC in world history. But since a whole shitton of stuff just got G1-ified, whatever can prevent that suddenly got very important! My point all along has been that if having a distinct-ish logo and storyline can still see a series get disambig merged one level up, then G2 and BW can be disambigged as G1 and we don't really have anything stopping that from happening except personal favoritism. Someone could ask next week "why NOT re-disambig G2 as G1?" and just from today's conversation I really do not see how we would have an answer. What, is the G2 toyline or cartoon more distinct from G1 than Victory was? We need a clear consistent disambig system that we can explain to newcomers under which Victory is G1 now and Beast Wars Neo is BW now but G2 and BW cannot be turned into G1 now. Do we have that system now? If so, what is it based on? If you think it's at all self-evident, it isn't. Maybe I ''can't'' grasp it - but if that's the case, I am not so special that I would expect to be the only one. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 18:16, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::This is all a fair point, and I am sincerely glad for the dissenting opinion! I guess the question is "at what point does the Generation 1 "franchise" stop being a franchise"? In Japan, at least, I would argue that the answer to that question is "when they stopped using Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers"; that seems like the clearest delineation, given that that puts it at the same place we consider to be the dividing line in the US (between the Micromasters and G2). If we consider FSRLTF to be the Japanese name for the G1 franchise, just like "Micron Legend" is to Armada and "Adventure" is to RID15, then there's a clear divider that means G2 and BW can't be considered part of it. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 18:39, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::: I freely admit that I wasn't entirely convinced at first, but after considering the issue for a few days I've ultimately decided that this consolidation is the right move. When the wiki was still taking shape in the late 2000s, individual franchise components were still very insular--chopped up, sequestered away, and written under the assumption that characters and concepts would likely never be revisited in any meaningful way, or backported into American ''Transformers'' culture. Look at [[Deathsaurus (G1)|Deathsaurus]]'s article for a good example of this: not just ''Victory'', but also ''Zone'', Dreamwave, ''Timelines'', ''Wings Universe'', two IDW universes, and even a random cameo in the original Marvel timeline thanks to TF '84. It seems weird to disambiguate by his franchise of origin when almost 64% of the headers in his page have nothing to do with ''Victory'', or even Japanese G1 at all! We don't, for instance, disambiguate [[Windblade (G1)]] by "Windblade (IDW)", even though here's arguably ''more'' instance to do so, particularly when it comes to the hordes of continuity-transplanted characters who keep showing up in stuff like IDW2 and the crossover comics.
::::::::::::::::::: We all know that Hasbro and its licensees don't view ''Transformers'' canon and continuity the same way we do, and this has led to an increasing amount of bleed between different stories--between stuff like IDW's ongoing comic stories freely pulling from whatever catches their fancy, and FunPub stuff like Beast Wars Uprising and AVP, I think that this debate ''should'' probably go beyond the intricacies of packaging minutiae... but, well, now I feel like I'm conflating these two separate proposals together, so for the time being I think that reorganizing the JG1 characters like this is a good thing.[[User:Grum|Grum]] ([[User talk:Grum|talk]]) 18:49, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::::::: It's also worth noting that the [[List of Japanese ID numbers#Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers|ID numbers]] for the toys keep counting up all the way through Return of Convoy, furthering the argument that these are all part of one larger toyline. [[List of Japanese ID numbers#Beast Wars|Same with Beast Wars]]. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 19:00, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
::I just want to make it clear AGAIN that I was never against the move of (ROC) to (G1). I was just simply pointing out how the packaging is ''slightly'' different. I apologize if I made that unclear. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 19:28, 22 September 2021 (EDT)
I want to apologize for igniting this whole thing. My Sunday boredom and rush to get things done got the best of me, and I'm sorry. If it's decided to revert my moves, I'm fully willing to undo all of my edits, when I can get the time. (Sorry for the late reply, I'm very busy with irl stuff for this week and the next.) [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 17:22, 21 September 2021 (EDT)
::I realize most of the conversation was around the JG1 disambig, but I really don't like the suggestion to collapse the other Japanese line disambigs into the US lines. Using Adventure as an example, Cosmos was released in Adventure — he's not an RiD character, having no presence in the RiD version of the line. I know we tend to lean on the US version of things as the source of truth, but this to me feels like it implies something that isn't true. [[User:Spectre|Spectre]] ([[User talk:Spectre|talk]]) 20:41, 22 September 2021 (EDT)

== Disambigs for TM2 characters ==

While we're still on the topic of page moves and titles and what not, I figured I should bring up these two cases that have bugged me for a while now.

I personally feel that we should move "[[Dinobot II]]" and "[[Prowl II]]" to "Dinobot (TM2)" and "Prowl (TM2)", respectively. These two were not given the Roman numeral suffix things (for lack of a better term) until the IDW Beast Wars Sourcebooks which were written what, 10 or so years after the fact?

Both the toy packaging for the pair and their bios never gave them that title and I'm pretty sure Dinobot was never called "Dinobot II" in the BW cartoon (granted, I haven't watched it in about 2 years, so I could be wrong). It just feels incredibly weird that we're naming these two after the Sourcebook names and not their original names.

[[User:MrRald|MrRald]] had also brought up on Discord that the fiction surrounding Prowl II and Prowl (TM2) should be split, but I personally think that we should keep them together as it's the same character, just with a different origin, which is no different to say any G1 character between Marvel, IDW and the cartoon, etc. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 22:41, 19 September 2021 (EDT)
:I agree with this change because the use of Dinobot II and Prowl II in the titles gives the wrong idea that these names have been used much more often than they actually have. Also there's always the possibility that someone will use those names in an official capacity just because they saw them on this wiki, and I think that's something we should try to avoid. --[[User:Fritz|Fritz]] ([[User talk:Fritz|talk]]) 00:02, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
::The Sourcebook didn't even use the "II" in anything outside of the page titles and the Credits Index. Not in any of the biographical information for any of the "II" characters. In fact, the Credits Index goes the extra mile of placing each "II" inside a set of parentheses like "(II)", as if to say "These are each the second character listed with a shared name, but the 'II' isn't actually part of their names." --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 00:48, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:Prowl-II-the-owl-and-Binaltec-car was such a chore to put together, the only thing worse would be finding a way to take it apart - and both halves would need to refer to one another so much they would take up more space and cause more confusion than the single article currently is. Let's leave it alone. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 09:52, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
::Yeah, as stated above I'm personally not for a split. I think MrRald also has plans on bringing it up on the talk page itself, so I'll leave that discussion more up to him to bring up. But what's your thoughts on the moves to "(TM2)"? -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 11:35, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:::Are either "Dinobot II" or "Prowl II" canonically-published names, or are they convenient shorthand this wiki made up? [[Beast Wars Universe]] says "TM2 Dinobot", the [[BotCon 2002]] postcard set says "Dinobot (Transmetal 2)". I don't own BW Sourcebook. In general I side with names that are official (even if obscure) over those we made up. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 13:03, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
::::They were used officially, but only in the Sourcebooks for the most part. In Prowl's case, the Sourcebook use was kinda pseudo-retconned into being the JG1 version of the character, with AVP building onto the story and solidifying him as part of the Binaltech stuff. But other than that, both prowl and Dinobot have appeared in more pieces of fiction without the "II" in the name. -- [[User:Fanofcoolstuff27|Fanofcoolstuff27]] ([[User talk:Fanofcoolstuff27|talk]]) 13:30, 20 September 2021 (EDT)
:::::Turns out "Dinobot II" was used in Earth Wars. -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] ([[User talk:Cyberlink420|talk]]) 17:52, 20 September 2021 (EDT)

Mainframe (G1)

2021-08-09T05:48:50Z

Spectre: Deleting note about weapon resembling a GI Joe weapon, because it’s quite a stretch.

{{factions|autobot}}
{{disambig3|Mainframe}}
:''Mainframe is an [[Autobot]] [[Action Master]] from the [[Generation 1 continuity family|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''
[[File:Mainframe(G1) MTMTE.jpg|upright=1.4|thumb|Code Monkey like Fritos. Code Monkey like Tab and Mountain Dew. Code Monkey very simple man with big warm fuzzy secret heart: Code Monkey like you.]]
'''Mainframe''' is a dork. A computer dork, to be precise. (Both in that he is a computer that is a dork, and a dork about computers.) He'd rather tackle complex mathematical problems than join the [[Great War (G1)|inconvenient galactic conflict]] with the [[Decepticon]]s. Despite his distaste for combat, he won't shirk his duties when called upon. If anything, he hopes that if he simply ''must'' fight, that he'll have the chance to use his considerable brainpower to end things quickly.

Alas, his [[Action Master partner|partner]], [[Push-Button]], would rather convert to a proton rifle and blow stuff up than be stuck debugging Mainframe's programs. Naturally, the two don't especially get along.

==Fiction==
===2005 IDW continuity===
{{first|[[Chaos Part Three: Kings|Transformers vol. 1 #28]]}}

[[File:Mainframe How to Say Goodbye and Mean it.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.1|[[Block coloring]]: Obscuring Transformers' identities since 1984.]]
At some point in history, [[Rewind (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Rewind]] acquired footage of Mainframe. {{storylink|The Gloaming}}

Mainframe was one of the survivors of the [[Kimia Facility]] massacre. He got away aboard an escape pod piloted by [[Chromedome (G1)|Chromedome]] and [[Brainstorm (G1)|Brainstorm]]. {{storylink|Chaos Part Three: Kings|Kings}} The pod was picked up by [[Arcee (G1)|Arcee]], who told the survivors of [[D-Void]]'s plan to destroy the universe and brought them all to Cybertron to stop it. {{storylink|Chaos Part Four: Genesis|Genesis}}

When the ''[[Lost Light]]'' departed for unknown space to search for the [[Knights of Cybertron]], Mainframe was part of the bridge crew. {{storylink|Liars, A to D Part 1: How to Say Goodbye and Mean It|How to Say Goodbye and Mean It}} He was present among the assembled Autobots after their tumble through quantum space as [[Hot Rod (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Rodimus]] addressed the troops. {{storylink|Liars, A to D Part 2: Hangers On|Hangers On}}

When crew member [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Ultra Magnus]] left on a stolen shuttle, Mainframe helped track it down. {{storylink|Remain in Light 1 of 5: The Fecund Moon|The Fecund Moon}} They followed Magnus to [[Moonbase One|Luna 1]], where the ship was invaded by [[Solomus|Chief Justice Tyrest]]'s [[Legislator]]s and the crew subdued. {{storylink|Remain in Light 3 of 5: The Divided Self|The Divided Self}} Having been [[Reproduction#2005 IDW continuity|constructed cold]], Mainframe was among those nearly killed by Tyrest's [[universal killswitch]]. {{storylink|Remain in Light 4 of 5: Arm the Lonely|Arm the Lonely}}

[[File:Mainframe magnus winners and losers.jpg|thumb|upright=1.2|"I'm a pilot, not a...wait, I'm a pilot?"]]
Mainframe piloted the ''Lost Light'' into the right position for launching Rodimus, [[Optimus Prime (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Orion Pax]], and others through a portal to the [[Dead Universe]]. {{storylink|Black Metal: Dark Cybertron Chapter 2|Black Metal}} In search for [[Metroplex (G1)|Metroplex]] he then navigated the ship to a [[Hydrophena|watery planet]] {{storylink|Winners & Losers: Dark Cybertron Chapter 3|Winners & Losers}} where they were attacked by a lot of [[Ammonite]]s. 2026<ref name="ammonites">The Ammonites' number was changed to 819 in the Hasbro exclusive cover variant of the issue available with the ''[[Transformers: Generations (toyline)#T30|Thrilling 30]]'' Deluxe Class [[Mini-Con Assault Team]].</ref> of them, according to Mainframe's estimation. {{storylink|Into the Abyss: Dark Cybertron Chapter 4|Into the Abyss}} After finding Metroplex, the crew used the Titan's [[space bridge]] to teleport him and the ''Lost Light'' back to Cybertron, where Mainframe lost control of the ship and crash-landed. {{storylink|Finis Temporis: Dark Cybertron Chapter 9|Finis Temporis}} Cybertron was subsequently invaded by another army of Ammonites, forcing Mainframe to get the ship airborne and away from the attackers. {{storylink|Black Planet: Dark Cybertron Chapter 11|Black Planet}} His contribution to the battle was contacting [[Chromia (G1)|Chromia]] before the ''Lost Light'' rammed [[Monstructor (G1)|Monstructor]], telling her to clean up the [[Pretender Monster|remains]] in a flowery, dramatic fashion too vague for her to understand. {{storylink|...And the Damage Done: Dark Cybertron Finale|...And the Damage Done}}

[[File:Tailgate mainframe jackpot words hang in the air.jpg|thumb|left|upright=2]]
Once Cybertron was saved, Mainframe went for drinks in [[Swerve's]] where he was approached by [[Getaway]] and [[Atomizer]], who asked him here he would stand if they were to stage a coup against Rodimus. {{storylink|No Guns, No Swords, No Briefcases}} He then continued to serve on the ''Lost Light'' as it returned to its journey with a new captain: a reformed [[Megatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Megatron]]. {{storylink|World, Shut Your Mouth Part 1: Towards Peace|Towards Peace}} He helped a plastered [[Jackpot (G1)|Jackpot]] to the medbay, running into [[Tailgate (G1)|Tailgate]] on the way. {{storylink|World, Shut Your Mouth Part 2: Words Hang in the Air|Words Hang in the Air}}

Mainframe was also a member of the crew on a quantum duplicate version of the ''Lost Light''. Then the [[Decepticon Justice Division]] showed up, and Mainframe [[Helex (DJD)|had his head torn off]]. {{storylink|slaughterhouse}} His corpse presumably vanished with the rest of his ''Lost Light'' when the main ''Lost Light'' crew shut down the duplicate ship's quantum engines. {{storylink|Slaughterhouse Part 2: The Road Not Taken|The Road Not Taken}}

[[File:Mainframe births deaths and interventions.jpg|thumb|upright=1.3|Look at my fingers! They're glorious!]]
While the ''Lost Light'' was disappearing piece by piece, Mainframe was seen evacuating the ship alongside Jackpot. {{storylink|World, Shut Your Mouth Part 3: Predestination: A Beginner's Guide|Predestination: A Beginner's Guide}} After the ''Lost Light'' reappeared, Mainframe along with [[Bluestreak (G1)|Bluestreak]], [[First Aid (G1)|First Aid]], and [[Trailbreaker (G1)|Trailcutter]] landed on [[Ofsted XVII]] while awaiting further orders from Rodimus. Mainframe explained to Bluestreak who was curious that the planet was experiencing a lot of [[warp gate]]s appearing after a massive battle between [[Black Block Consortia]] and the [[Galactic Council]] with a few mechs over a ravaged ship in orbit. After First Aid called Bluestreak from a lecture theater, he and Mainframe went to meet up with him. They discovered a fatally wounded Cybertronian lying around in the wrecked room. Mainframe and Bluestreak decided to find out if the Cybertronian was an Autobot or Decepticon. After First Aid and Trailcutter returned with medical supplies, First Aid became furious with Mainframe and Bluestreak for moving the injured bot, giving him less time to live. Mainframe became unsure of donating some of his fuel when he mentioned the risks of donating too much energon. Next, Mainframe found a translator lying around and activated it. However, Bluestreak discovered the Cybertronian's face and discovered that with a switch on it, releasing spikes. Mainframe was now convinced that the injured bot wasn't an Autobot, and he and Bluestreak back out from donating their fuel and left the lecture theater. After the bot was revealed to the [[Vos (DJD)|Vos]], a member of the D.J.D. and attacked Trailcutter, First Aid went to go find Mainframe and Bluestreak to help. Mainframe was present when the three bots discovered that [[Kaon (DJD)|Kaon]] had murdered Trailcutter, and watched helplessly as Kaon crushed Trailcutter's brain module. {{storylink|Births, Deaths, and Interventions}} Afterwards, Mainframe and the others were nearly killed by the D.J.D. after they tried to blow up their shuttle and was soon rescued. {{storylink|The Custom-Made Now - An Elegant Chaos Prologue|The Custom-Made Now}}

Shortly after [[Thunder Clash|Thunderclash]]'s pre-wake and recovery from near-death, Mainframe was called to ''[[Swerve's]]'' by [[Getaway]] and [[Atomizer]] and asked if he would stand by the two in a mutiny against [[Megatron (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Megatron]] with the lonely navigator eventually agreeing. {{storylink|The Plotters' Club (Part 2): Filling in the Blanks|Filling in the Blanks}}

Mainframe acted as shuttle pilot for Rodimus and the crew when they located the [[Mortilus|Necrobot]]'s port-of-call. In trying to decide whether to approach by stealth or storm, Mainframe found Rodimus's sarcasm and flippancy indecipherable, as do we all from time to time. {{storylink|The Not Knowing}}

[[File:HowBrightTheirFrailDeeds-LostLightmutiny.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.5|Revenge of the Nerds]]

When certain members of the crew were psychically attacked, Mainframe and [[Blaster (G1)|Blaster]] traced the source to [[Necroworld]] but concealed the location from [[Team Rodimus (G1)|Team Rodimus]] so as to bait them off-ship. As Rodimus, Magnus, Megatron and the affected crewmembers prepared to leave in the [[Rodpod]] to investigate, Mainframe took the team's doctor [[Velocity (G1)|Velocity]] aside and suggested that she should take [[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]] along as some extra muscle. Once the crew had liberated Getaway, Mainframe stood alongside him on the ship's bridge as he informed Rodimus that they were being stranded on the Necrobot's planet and to expect "visitors". The shocked bridge crew demanded Getaway explain himself who revealed he'd bargained with the [[Galactic Council]] to have them seize Megatron but assured the safety of their fellow Autobots. Three weeks later, the bridge crew discussed the [[Warren]] and the map to [[Cyberutopia]] before a transmission came in from Rodimus informing the crew that he and his entourage were facing the [[Decepticon Justice Division]] prompting Mainframe to despair at his role in the mutiny. Like all aboard, Mainframe's memories were remotely altered by [[Sunder (G1)|Sunder]] so as to make him think Team Rodimus had left of their own volition and that Getaway was the bee's knees. {{storylink|The Dying of the Light: (1) How Bright Their Frail Deeds|How Bright Their Frail Deeds}} {{storylink|The Plotters' Club (Part 2): Filling in the Blanks|Filling in the Blanks}}

[[File:ADanceBeforeDying GrimlockKillsMainframe.jpg|thumb|upright=1.3|"Grimlock! You killed the zombie Mainframe!"<br>"...He was a zombie?"]]
When the [[Protectobot (G1)|Protectobots]] finally caught up to the ship, Mainframe was in [["Visages"]] where he joined a group in catching up [[First Aid (G1)|First Aid]] on the changes aboard ship. {{storylink|The Plotters' Club (Part 1): Full Circle|Full Circle}} After a trip through the Warren, Mainframe cycled the engines into their recharge state. He was shocked when Blaster ordered a detour, noting how close they were to their goal. Another jump through the Warren took the ship directly to [[Cyberutopia]]. {{storylink|The Plotters' Club (Part 3): Journey's End|Journey's End}}

The promised land however turned out to be nothing more than the ancient medical moon of [[Mederi]], fuelled by telepathic aliens. Soon after arriving the ''Lost Light'' came under assault by the forces of the [[Adaptus|Grand Architect]] whom Getaway swore fealty to, allowing [[Scorponok (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Scorponok]] to turn the crew into [[Sparkeater (creature)|sparkeaters]] to prove his loyalty. {{storylink|Crucible (Part 2): Lūstrāre|Lūstrāre}} The mutated crew members were then set loose on Team Rodimus and the [[Scavenger (group)|Scavengers]], {{storylink|The Everlasting Voices (3): You Are Here|You Are Here}} where Mainframe was unceremoniously hacked to pieces by [[Grimlock (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Grimlock]]. {{storylink|Crucible (Part 1): A Dance Before Dying|A Dance Before Dying}}
{{-}}

===''Classics''===
[[File:Invasion mainframe rad.jpg|thumb|left]]
Mainframe was overlooking the [[Ironworks (facility)|Ironworks]] with [[Rad (G1)|Rad]] when [[Overlord (Masterforce)|Overlord]] attacked the base with his squad of Decepticons. {{storylink|Invasion Prologue}} He argued with [[Rollout (G1)|Rollout]] while rebuilding Ironworks. When the [[Junkion (species)|Junkions]] attacked, he was captured and turned into one. {{storylink|Invasion (issue)|Invasion}}

===2006 IDW ''Beast Wars'' continuity===
At the tail-end of the Great War, Mainframe was sent out to accompany [[Tigatron]] in an attempt to broker peace-talks between the Autobots and Decepticons, hoping to end the war without further carnage. Unfortunately, the first enemy camp they approached was headed by the renegade soldier [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]], who sicced [[Predaking (G1)|Predaking]] on them. Mainframe fled before the gestalt could cut him down. {{storylink|Dawn of the Predacus}}

===''Of Masters and Mayhem''===
Mainframe was one of the many casualties of [[Toxitron (G1)|Toxitron]]'s attack on the [[Ark (G1)|Ark]]'s launch facility. {{storylink|The Toxic Transformer}}

===2019 IDW continuity===
One of [[Highbrow (G1)|Highbrow]]'s peers at the [[Academy of Research]], Mainframe helped set up a video conference with [[Straxus (G1)|Straxxus]]. {{storylink|Escape Part Two}}
{{--}}

==Toys==
===''The Transformers''===
{{anchor|Generation 1}}
[[File:G1-toy Mainframe.jpg|upright=1.2|thumb|It figures a computer dork would want a BFG.]]
*'''Mainframe''' (Action Master, [[1990]])
**''Accessories'': "Vibro Pulverizer" rifle, Push-Button partner

:As an [[Action Master]], ''[[The Transformers (toyline)|The Transformers]]'' Mainframe is a non-transforming action figure of a robot with an indeterminate [[alternate mode]], but chances are he turns into one of those huge computers you see in those movies from the 70s and 80s, you know, the ones the size of refrigerators with the reel-to-reel magnetic tape. He is compatible with any Action Master vehicle or weapon. He was part of the second assortment of basic carded figures, and came with his [[Action Master partner|partner]]-robot [[Push-Button]].

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/1990/Autobot/Mainframe/mainframe.htm More information on Mainframe at TFU.info]''
{{--}}

===''Generations''===
[[File:Kingdomtoy-TitanTeletraan1.jpg|thumb|300px|By popular demand!]]
*'''Autobot Ark''' (Titan Class, [[2021]])
**''Accessories'': [[Sky Spy#Toys|Sky Spy]], [[Golden Disk (Voyager)#Generations|''Voyager'' Golden Disk]], [[Vok]] [[Golden Disk (Vok)#Generations|Golden Disk]], [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generations toys#K30|Optimus Prime]], 6 [[Fire Blast effect]]s

:Available with ''[[War for Cybertron: Kingdom]]'' Titan Class Autobot [[Ark (G1)|Ark]], "Autobot Mainframe" is a Deluxe Class toy that transforms from robot mode into either "[[Teletraan I#Toys|Teletraan-1]]" or the bridge of the ''Ark''. As Teletraan-1, the toy is to scale with contemporary ''Generations'' toys and features a sculpted computer console with multiple tampographed screens and a [[Sky Spy#Toys|Sky Spy]] accessory. Behind it are two removable show-accurate Golden Disk accessories (both the [[Golden Disk (Voyager)#Generations|"Sounds of Earth"]] and the [[Golden Disk (Vok)#Generations|Vok disk]]). In bridge mode, there are small seats and Teletraan-1 computer screens where microfigures (such as the included [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generations toys#K30|Optimus Prime]]) can be placed, all surrounding a navigation globe. In this mode, Mainframe can be placed inside the chest/hull of the ''Ark''.

:Despite sharing similar body and limb proportions with the ''[[Combiner_Wars_(toyline)|Combiner Wars]]'' Voyager Class [[Silverbolt_(G1)/toys#Combiner_Wars|Silverbolt]] figure, Mainframe/Teletraan-1 is '''''not''''' a retool of him.
{{--}}

==Notes==
* According to his [[Tech Spec]]s, he is equipped to store 200,000 megabytes of data. At the time his toy was released, this was actually pretty impressive, as most hard drives then could barely hold 1,000 MB. Nowadays, of course, this is not exactly a big deal, since you can get a 4 ''tera''byte (4,000,000 MB) portable USB drive for a little over $100.
* Mainframe is inexplicably on the cover of the 1990 [[Family Home Entertainment]] VHS release of the "[[Five Faces of Darkness]]" mini-series... a cartoon produced about four years before Mainframe's toy was released.

===Foreign names===
*''Japanese:'' '''Mainframe''' (メインフレーム ''Meinfurēmu'')
*''French:'' '''Ordinateur''' (Canada)
*''Italian:'' '''Omicron'''

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Action Masters]]
[[Category:Classics Autobots]]
[[Category:Generation 1 Autobots]]
[[Category:IDW (2019) Transformers]]
[[Category:Lost Light crew]]
[[Category:Scientists]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Kingdom Autobots]]

Sparkless

2021-04-10T04:38:23Z

Spectre:

{{factions|autobot|decepticon}}
:''The Sparkless are [[zombie]]s from the [[War for Cybertron Trilogy (franchise)|War for Cybertron Trilogy]] portion of the [[Generation 1 continuity family]].''
[[File:Siege-Ep5-Moonracer-murmurs-in-panic.jpg|350px|thumb|''*chuckles*'' I'm in danger.]]

If you ever find yourself deep into the chasms of the [[Rust Sea|Sea of Rust]], then you better prepare for the '''Sparkless!''' These reanimated corpses, shockingly, have no spark, and still hunt for the sparks of the living to this day. Rusted and busted beyond repair, the Sparkless still have great enough strength to rip [[Moonracer (G1)|someone]] apart. They cannot be destroyed by simple fire blasts or slashing, so hope for a [[AllSpark|miracle]] or fraggin' ''run!''

==Fiction==
===''War for Cybertron Trilogy'' cartoon===
{{voiceactor|[[Brook Chalmers]], [[Kaiser Johnson]], [[Frank Todaro]]}}
While searching for the [[AllSpark|Allspark]] in the [[Rust Sea|Sea of Rust]], [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] and his team tracked its last known coordinates down into a nearby valley. Optimus Prime sensed something troubling, and he proved right, as the Sparkless rose out of the ground soon after. The team was attacked by mindless reanimated corpses who sought to revive themselves by taking the sparks of living Cybertronians. [[Jetfire (G1)|Jetfire]] claimed the Sparkless were responsible for multiple deaths in the Sea of Rust and could reform after being hacked apart. {{storylink|Siege episode 5}} The Sparkless quickly overwhelmed the group, managing to tear [[Moonracer (G1)|Moonracer]] down to her torso, killing her, but Optimus spotted and retrieved the Allspark, its power causing the Sparkless to disintegrate into dust. {{storylink|Siege episode 6}}

==Toys==
===''Generations''===
[[File:WFC_Netflix_Sparkless_Bot.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|[[Cosmic Rust (disease)|Cosmic Rust]] included?]]
*'''Decepticon Sparkless Bot''' (Deluxe Class, [[2021]])
**''Accessories'': Left & right blasters, light bar
:Part of the third assortment of toys promoting the ''Kingdom'' season of the [[Netflix]] [[Transformers: War for Cybertron Trilogy (cartoon)|''War for Cybertron Trilogy'' cartoon]], "Decepticon Sparkless Bot" is a [[redeco]] of ''[[War for Cybertron: Siege|Siege]]'' [[Barricade (IDW)#Toys|Barricade]], itself a [[retool]] of ''Siege'' [[Prowl (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Siege|Prowl]], transforming into a Cybertronian emergency car. It has multiple [[5 mm post|5 mm ports]] and 3 mm posts to accommodate the [[C.O.M.B.A.T. System]]/[[F.O.S.S.I.L. Technology]] weaponry and "Fire Blast" effects, respectively. Its two blasters can be mounted on these points, or the slots on his hood/shoulders, as well as combine into a larger double-barreled blaster. It also includes a light bar that can be mounted on its roof or wherever else you care to. The bar has an indent in its top that, despite being rectangular, still fits 5 mm posts very well.

:This mold was previously redecoed as [[Smokescreen (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Siege|Smokescreen]] with Prowl's blaster and without the light-bar, which was also used for [[Bluestreak (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Siege|Bluestreak]], albeit with the original Prowl head.

:This toy, like most of the Netflix ''[[War for Cybertron Trilogy (toyline)|War for Cybertron Trilogy]]'' toys, is a [[Walmart]] exclusive in the U.S. and Canada. Like the rest of its Deluxe Class wave, Decepticon Sparkless Bot was found in Walmart stores on [[March 13]], before an official unveiling.

{{-}}{{anchor|SparklessSeeker}}
[[File:WFC_Netflix_Sparkless_Seeker.jpeg|upright=1.66|thumb|Dead Air.]]
*'''Decepticon Sparkless Seeker''' (Battle 3-Pack, 2021)
**''Accessories:'' 2 "HPI [[Null-ray|Null-Ray]] Laser Launchers", "[[Caliburst (G1)#War for Cybertron Trilogy|Sparkless Caliburst]]" and "[[Singe#War for Cybertron Trilogy|Sparkless Singe]]" [[Battle Master]]s, 3 "Fire Blast" effects
:Part of the third assortment of toys promoting the ''Kingdom'' season of the Netflix ''War for Cybertron Trilogy'' cartoon, "Decepticon Sparkless Seeker" is a reduce of ''Siege'' [[Thundercracker (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Siege|Thundercracker]], itself a head retool of ''Siege'' [[Starscream (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Siege|Starscream]]. It transforms into a Cybertronian "tetrajet" based on the [[Seeker (body-type)|Seekers']] appearance in "[[More than Meets the Eye, Part 1]]" although the jet mode has <s>the robot-mode legs</s> pretty much its ''entire robot body'' sticking out from the undercarriage. As a rather heavy [[shellformer]], Decepticon Sparkless Seeker can easily be separated into both a wingless robot mode and a nearly complete tetrajet via a single friction hinge.

:It has 5 mm ports on its biceps, forearms, shins, under its feet (vehicle-mode thrusters), and wings to attach any C.O.M.B.A.T. System/F.O.S.S.I.L. Technology weaponry, such as the included Battle Masters and/or the "HPI Null-Ray Laser Launchers." The 3 mm posts on its shins, forearms, left bicep, and the tips of his null-rays can accommodate "Fire Blast" effect parts, like the ones that come with his pack-in partners, Battle Masters "[[Caliburst (G1)#War for Cybertron Trilogy|Sparkless Caliburst]]" and "[[Singe#War for Cybertron Trilogy|Sparkless Singe]]".

:Sparkless Caliburst is a redeco of ''Siege'' [[Caliburst (G1)#War for Cybertron: Siege|Caliburst]], itself a redeco of ''Siege'' [[Blowpipe (G1)#War for Cybertron: Siege|Blowpipe]] with a different Fire Blast effect. Sparkless Singe is a redeco of ''Siege'' [[Singe#War for Cybertron: Siege|Singe]], itself a redeco of ''Siege'' [[Firebolt (G1)#War for Cybertron: Siege|Firedrive]] with ''Siege'' [[Aimless (G1)#War for Cybertron: Siege|Aimless]]'s Fire Blast effects. They both transform into blasters, or their gun barrel pieces can detach from their robot mode backs, revealing a 3 mm peg, and connect to their arms as cannons. Due to the gun barrel piece's size, attaching a Fire Blast effect to it while they are wielding it in this manner will render the figures too unstable to stand.

:This toy, like most of the Netflix ''War for Cybertron Trilogy'' toys, is a Walmart exclusive in the U.S. and Canada. Much like its wavemate, [[Optimus Primal (BW)/toys#War for Cybertron Trilogy|Maximal Optimus Primal]], Decepticon Sparkless Seeker was also available on [[Hasbro Pulse]] in limited quantities. Both sets' stock photography and product descriptions were found in Walmart internal systems three days before an official unveil and pre-order on [[March 15]].
{{WFCSiegeStarscreamMold}}
{{comingsoontoy}}
{{--}}

==Notes==
[[File:WFC-Siege-Ep3-Generics-in-camp.jpg|300px|thumb|Green Seeker guy, no limbs.]]
*The nature of the Sparkless is never explained.
*Par for the course with ''War for Cybertron Trilogy''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s extensive use of [[generic]]s, the Sparkless's models are edited and retextured models of Sideswipe, Mirage, Ironhide, Hound, and Barricade. As per tradition, there are also Sparkless resembling edited and retextured Refraktors and [[Seeker (body-type)|Seekers]].
*Despite the show having both [[Autobot]]s and Decepticons as part of the Sparkless, their toys have only listed them as Decepticons. This was tone to possibly to cement them as villains, similar to what the ''[[Transformers: Cyberverse (toyline)|Cyberverse]]'' toyline did with the [[Monsterbot (Cyberverse)|Pesticons]] and [[Sharkticon (species)#Cyberverse|Sharkticons]].
*The color scheme of the Decepticon Sparkless Seeker seems closer to one of the generic Seeker color schemes seen in the ''War for Cybertron Trilogy'' cartoon, notably the Seeker without limbs under [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]]'s care in [[Siege episode 3]].
{{--}}

==See also==
*[[Terrorcon (Prime)]]
*[[Zombie Con]]

[[Category:Generation 1 Transformers]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Kingdom Decepticons]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Siege Autobots]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Siege Decepticons]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Siege subgroups]]
[[Category:Zombies]]

Black Roritchi

2020-08-26T02:50:03Z

Spectre:

:''Black Roritchi is a [[Decepticon]] from the [[Generation 1 continuity family]].''

[[File:MF-toy Black Roritchi.jpg|right|upright=2|thumb|''Roricci'' implies the existence of singular ''Roriccio''.]]

'''Black Roritchi''' (ブラックロリッチ ''Burakku Roritchi'') is the companion of the malevolent [[Scorponok (G1)|BlackZarak]]. He may or may not be an upgraded [[Fasttrack (G1)|Fasttrack]] or the leader of the [[Guardminder]]s. You pick!

==Toys==
===''Super-God Masterforce''===
*'''BlackZarak''' (Headmaster, 1988)
**''Japanese ID number:'' '''D-311'''
**''Accessories'': 2 guns

: Available only with BlackZarak, a [[redeco]]/[[retool]] of Scorponok, Black Roritchi is a redeco of [[Fasttrack (G1)#Generation 1|Fasttrack]]. Black Roritchi transforms into a six-wheeled assault buggy. His axles were designed for quick rolling down the main ramp of BlackZarak's city mode. His two guns can be either hand-held or shoulder mounted.

:He's made ENTIRELY of [[Gold Plastic Syndrome|gold plastic]], so, uh, look out.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/1988/Destron/BlackRoritchi/blackroritchi.htm More information on Black Roritchi at TFU.info]''

===Generations===
[[File:TF-Generations-Selects-Deluxe-Black-Roritchi.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Dodged another [[Gold Plastic Syndrome|shot]] this time...]]
*'''Black Roritchi''' (Deluxe, 2020)
**''ID number'': '''WFC-GS22'''
**''Accessories'': 2 Blasters

:''[[Generations Selects (toyline)|Generations Selects]]'' Black Roritchi is a retool of ''[[War for Cybertron: Earthrise|Earthrise]]'' [[Fasttrack_(G1)#War_for_Cybertron:_Earthrise|Fasttrack]], with a new head that loses the outer antenna to bring it closer to the Guardminder leader's character model. The "Modulator"-styled figure transforms via [[partformer|part-forming]] into either a six-wheeled buggy with twin blasters, or a spear weapon (based conceptually on Black Zarak's Tyrant Spear) that can be held by ''Earthrise'' Scorponok. His back piece has an [[A.I.R. Lock System]] connection point, which allows him to link up with other toys in the line. Additionally, his parts can be used to augment other figures as armor and add-on weapons, similar to the [[C.O.M.B.A.T. System|Weaponizers]] of the prior ''[[War for Cybertron: Siege|Siege]]'' toyline.

{{comingsoontoy}}
{{--}}

==Notes==
*Black Roritchi doesn't get much in the way of characterization, so his identity as a unique character isn't even clear. Nevertheless, the wiki has elected to assume he is based on his entirely new name.
*Black Roritchi's design was used in ''[[Transformers: Super-God Masterforce (cartoon)|Super-God Masterforce]]'' for the mass-produced drone Transformers, the [[Guardminder]]s. Fasttrack's coloration was used for the generic ones, while the leader used Black Roritchi's colors.
*No, we don't know what "Roritchi" means.

[[Category:Generations Selects]]
[[Category:Super-God Masterforce Decepticons]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Earthrise Decepticons]]

Black Roritchi

2020-08-26T02:49:19Z

Spectre:

:''Black Roritchi is a [[Decepticon]] from the [[Generation 1 continuity family]].''

[[File:MF-toy Black Roritchi.jpg|right|upright=2|thumb|''Roricci'' implies the existence of singular ''Roriccio''.]]

'''Black Roritchi''' (ブラックロリッチ ''Burakku Roritchi'') is the companion of the malevolent [[Scorponok (G1)|BlackZarak]]. He may or may not be an upgraded [[Fasttrack (G1)|Fasttrack]] or the leader of the [[Guardminder]]s. You pick!

==Toys==
===''Super-God Masterforce''===
*'''BlackZarak''' (Headmaster, 1988)
**''Japanese ID number:'' '''D-311'''
**''Accessories'': 2 guns

: Available only with BlackZarak, a [[redeco]]/[[retool]] of Scorponok, Black Roritchi is a redeco of [[Fasttrack (G1)#Generation 1|Fasttrack]]. Black Roritchi transforms into a six-wheeled assault buggy. His axles were designed for quick rolling down the main ramp of BlackZarak's city mode. His two guns can be either hand-held or shoulder mounted.

:He's made ENTIRELY of [[Gold Plastic Syndrome|gold plastic]], so, uh, look out.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/1988/Destron/BlackRoritchi/blackroritchi.htm More information on Black Roritchi at TFU.info]''

===Generations===
[[File:TF-Generations-Selects-Deluxe-Black-Roritchi.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Dodged another [[Gold Plastic Syndrome|shot]] this time...]]
*'''Black Roritchi''' (Deluxe, 2020)
**''ID number'': '''WFC-GS22'''
**''Accessories'': 2 Blasters

:''[[Generations Selects (toyline)|Generations Selects]]'' Black Roritchi is a retool of ''[[War for Cybertron: Earthrise|Earthrise]]'' [[Fasttrack_(G1)#War_for_Cybertron:_Earthrise|Fasttrack]], with a new head that loses the outer antenna to bring it closer to the [[Guardminder]] leader's character model. The "Modulator"-styled figure transforms via [[partformer|part-forming]] into either a six-wheeled buggy with twin blasters, or a spear weapon (based conceptually on Black Zarak's Tyrant Spear) that can be held by ''Earthrise'' Scorponok. His back piece has an [[A.I.R. Lock System]] connection point, which allows him to link up with other toys in the line. Additionally, his parts can be used to augment other figures as armor and add-on weapons, similar to the [[C.O.M.B.A.T. System|Weaponizers]] of the prior ''[[War for Cybertron: Siege|Siege]]'' toyline.

{{comingsoontoy}}
{{--}}

==Notes==
*Black Roritchi doesn't get much in the way of characterization, so his identity as a unique character isn't even clear. Nevertheless, the wiki has elected to assume he is based on his entirely new name.
*Black Roritchi's design was used in ''[[Transformers: Super-God Masterforce (cartoon)|Super-God Masterforce]]'' for the mass-produced drone Transformers, the [[Guardminder]]s. Fasttrack's coloration was used for the generic ones, while the leader used Black Roritchi's colors.
*No, we don't know what "Roritchi" means.

[[Category:Generations Selects]]
[[Category:Super-God Masterforce Decepticons]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Earthrise Decepticons]]

Black Roritchi

2020-08-26T02:41:53Z

Spectre:

:''Black Roritchi is a [[Decepticon]] from the [[Generation 1 continuity family]].''

[[File:MF-toy Black Roritchi.jpg|right|upright=2|thumb|''Roricci'' implies the existence of singular ''Roriccio''.]]

'''Black Roritchi''' (ブラックロリッチ ''Burakku Roritchi'') is the companion of the malevolent [[Scorponok (G1)|BlackZarak]]. He may or may not be an upgraded [[Fasttrack (G1)|Fasttrack]] or the leader of the [[Guardminder]]s. You pick!

==Toys==
===''Super-God Masterforce''===
*'''BlackZarak''' (Headmaster, 1988)
**''Japanese ID number:'' '''D-311'''
**''Accessories'': 2 guns

: Available only with BlackZarak, a [[redeco]]/[[retool]] of Scorponok, Black Roritchi is a redeco of [[Fasttrack (G1)#Generation 1|Fasttrack]]. Black Roritchi transforms into a six-wheeled assault buggy. His axles were designed for quick rolling down the main ramp of BlackZarak's city mode. His two guns can be either hand-held or shoulder mounted.

:He's made ENTIRELY of [[Gold Plastic Syndrome|gold plastic]], so, uh, look out.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/1988/Destron/BlackRoritchi/blackroritchi.htm More information on Black Roritchi at TFU.info]''

===Generations===
[[File:TF-Generations-Selects-Deluxe-Black-Roritchi.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Dodged another [[Gold Plastic Syndrome|shot]] this time...]]
*'''Black Roritchi''' (Deluxe, 2020)
**''ID number'': '''WFC-GS22'''
**''Accessories'': 2 Blasters

: A ''[[Generations Selects (toyline)|Generations Selects]]'' release, Black Roritchi is a retool of ''Earthrise'' [[Fasttrack_(G1)#War_for_Cybertron:_Earthrise|Fasttrack]], with a new head that loses the outer antenna to bring it closer to the [[Guardminder]] leader's character model. The "Modulator"-styled figure transforms via [[partformer|part-forming]] into either a six-wheeled buggy with twin blasters or the "Tyrant Spear" for Black Zarak. His back piece has an [[A.I.R. Lock System]] connection point, which allows him to link up with other toys in the line to form larger fortifications. His parts can also be used to augment other figures as armor and add-on weapons, similar to the [[C.O.M.B.A.T. System|Weaponizers]] of the prior ''[[War for Cybertron: Siege|Siege]]'' toyline.

{{comingsoontoy}}
{{--}}

==Notes==
*Black Roritchi doesn't get much in the way of characterization, so his identity as a unique character isn't even clear. Nevertheless, the wiki has elected to assume he is based on his entirely new name.
*Black Roritchi's design was used in ''[[Transformers: Super-God Masterforce (cartoon)|Super-God Masterforce]]'' for the mass-produced drone Transformers, the [[Guardminder]]s. Fasttrack's coloration was used for the generic ones, while the leader used Black Roritchi's colors.
*No, we don't know what "Roritchi" means.

[[Category:Generations Selects]]
[[Category:Super-God Masterforce Decepticons]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Earthrise Decepticons]]

Sandstorm (G2)

2020-08-22T03:06:21Z

Spectre:

{{factions|decepticong2}}
{{disambig3|Sandstorm}}
:''Sandstorm is a [[Decepticon]] from the [[Transformers: Generation 2 (franchise)|Generation 2]] portion of the [[Generation 1 continuity family|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''

[[File:G2SandstormVaultArt.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|deeeeep huuuuurtiiing... *shakeshakeshake* deeeeep huuuuurtiiing....]]
'''Sandstorm''' is a [[Seeker (body-type)|Decepticon jet]] who (presumably) specializes in desert warfare. He battles the Autobots over energon and that's... that's sort of it.

==Fiction==
===Ask Vector Prime===
In the Battle of [[Sherman Dam]] in [[Primax 096.0 Beta]], the Seeker Sandstorm tried to run off with energon cubes. [[Mirage (G1)#Ask Vector Prime|Mirage]] and [[Sideswipe (G1)#Ask Vector Prime|Sideswipe]] tried to stop him. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Facebook|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/09/06}}

==Toys==
===''Generation 2''===
[[File:G2SandstormMockup.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|Function: Decepticon {{w|Pig-Pen}}.]]

*'''Sandstorm'''
:Sandstorm was to have been a desert camo-themed [[redeco]] of the ''[[Transformers: Generation 2 (toyline)|Generation 2]]'' version of [[Ramjet (G1)/toys#Generation 2|Ramjet]]. As such, he presumably would have had firing missile launchers, and perhaps a sound effects box that would have been mountable above his engines.

:Given that ''Generation 2'' [[Starscream (G1)/toys#Generation 2|Starscream]] and Ramjet were released in tandem, it is possible that Hasbro planned to follow the same pattern for [[Blackout (G2)#Toys|Blackout]] and Sandstorm.

{{canceledtoy}}
{{--}}

===''Generations Selects''===
[[File:TF-Generations-Selects-Voyager-G2-Sandstorm.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6120QOlsfU "Anyone who uses Darude's song as a celebration theme gets a free null-ray shot on the face."]]]
*'''Decepticon Sandstorm''' (Voyager Class, [[2021]])
**''ID number:'' '''WFC-GS21'''
**''Accessories'': 2 "Null-Ray blasters"

: A redeco of ''[[War for Cybertron: Earthrise (toyline)|Earthrise]]'' [[Ramjet_(G1)/toys#War_for_Cybertron:_Earthrise|Ramjet]], Sandstorm transforms into a modified F-15 fighter jet with cranked-arrow delta wings based on the F-16XL prototype. He is now cast in a desert camo deco, and has a shark face marking on his nosecone. As one of the Coneheads, Sandstorm features a new headsculpt based on the original conehead design, though it is a faux piece not formed from the actual nosecone.

:The figure's design and transformation scheme are heavily based on the 2006 Classics Starscream mold (and it's subsequent retool of Ramjet), while adding points of articulation the earlier figure did not have such as pivoting ankles, a more expressive ball-jointed head, and hinges that allow the wings to fold backwards on his legs in robot mode. However, due to this, his torso is very hollow at the sides and his intended waist articulation was dropped due to the physical space required for transformation.

:Care must be taken when transforming Sandstorm, as the paint on the tip of the head can rub against the inside of the jet's nosecone.
{{comingsoontoy}}
{{--}}

==Notes==
[[File:G2SandstormProductionColors.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66]]
* Sandstorm's artwork, under the ad hoc name "Desert Ramjet", has been floating around the internet for some years, having originally surfaced from the same collection of ex-Hasbro employee memorabilia that yielded [[:File:G2GrimlockArtwork.jpg|"tiger" Grimlock]] and [[Blackout (G2)|Blackout]].
*In [[2007]], a physical mock-up matching the "desert Ramjet" art came to the fandom's attention via a pictorial review done by ''Transformers'' fan and rarities-hunter Maziar "Maz" Shahsafdari for his website TF-1.com. However, the existence of Sandstorm as a named [[character]] separate from Ramjet was not revealed until a labeled copy of the artwork was printed in the 2011 ''[[Transformers Vault]]'' collector's book.
*In [[2012]], it was revealed that Sandstorm was ''much'' further along in production than the fandom had previously suspected when a deco-less test shot was discovered on the Chinese auction site TaoBao (from a seller also possessing loose ''Generation 2'' [[Stunticon (G1)|Stunticons]], [[Protectobot (G1)|Protectobots]], and a [[:File:G2BlackoutProductionColor.jpg|production colors Blackout]]).<ref>[http://www.collecticon.org/2012/01/g2-sandstorm-and-g2-night-attack-starscream-prototypes-discovered-amidst-ancient-relics-in-china-now-on-taobao-for-a-shitload-of-money/ Blog post by Collecticon, 25 January 2012]</ref> The test shot differs from the package art and mock-up by possessing two shades of tan, black missiles, and a tan head, though the color layouts between the three line up otherwise.
* A thematically similar hand-painted redeco of the [[Starscream (G1)/toys#Generation 2|Starscream]] mold (in [[:File:G2SSJungleprotojet.jpg|jungle colors]]) is also known to exist, having been found in an auction on [[eBay]] in 2007. Whether it was meant to be Starscream or a new character like Sandstorm is unknown.
* In addition to that, there's [[:File:WhizBangNavyRamjetRedeco.jpg|another Ramjet redeco]] in sky blue colors. Same knowledge on character goes.

==References==
{{reflist}}

==External links==
*[http://www.tf-1.com/articles/other/g2ramjet_template.html "G2 Desert-Camouflage Ramjet Mock-Up" at TF-1.com]

[[Category:Generation 1 Seekers]]
[[Category:Generation 2 Decepticons]]
[[Category:Generations Selects]]

Dirge (G1)/toys

2020-08-22T03:02:48Z

Spectre: Dirge's torso is almost entirely black plastic, with no paint involved. These toys are also brand new — can we we really say they are prone to chipping?

{{suite}}

[[File:G1 boxart Dirge.jpg|upright=1.3|thumb|Dirge's figures aren't so much "toys" as they are miniature memorial statues.]]

As a [[Conehead]] [[Seeker (body-type)|Seeker]], '''Dirge''' less often receives a toy whenever [[Starscream (G1)/toys|Starscream]] does.

==Toys==
===Generation 1===
[[File:G1Dirge toy.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Closet [[Conehead]]]]
*'''Dirge''' (Decepticon Plane, [[1985]]/[[1986]])
**''Japanese ID number'': '''97'''
**''Accessories'': Left & right fists, front landing gear, 2 [[concussion weapon|concussion missiles]]

:A [[retool]] of the [[Starscream (G1)/toys|Starscream mold]], Dirge transforms into a modified F-15 fighter jet with a delta wing and front canard. The spring-loaded missile launchers were replaced with simplified non-firing... rifle barrels?

:In [[robot mode]] his official instructions have the user pulling down his nose cone to complete his head transformation, like Starscream. However, Dirge's character model depicts him as having his head untransformed, leaving a distinctive "conehead" shape to his appearance. This trait is shared by Thrust and Ramjet, leading many owners to do the same thing to differentiate the three later Decepticon jets from the three earlier ones. Dirge's robot mode stickers are the same design as Thundercracker's, but in different colors.

:In Japan, Dirge was only available as a mail-away in 1986 (for 1980 yen and 4 [[Robot Point]]s).

:This sculpt was also used to make [[Ramjet (G1)/toys|Ramjet]], [[Skywarp (G1)/toys|Skywarp]], [[Sunstorm (G1)|Sunstorm]], [[Thrust (G1)/toys|Thrust]], and [[Thundercracker (G1)/toys|Thundercracker]].

::*''[http://www.transformerland.com/wiki/toy-info/transformers-g1-decepticon-jets-dirge/727/ Patent info, price guide, and further reading on Dirge at Transformerland.com]''
::*''[http://tfu.info/1985/Decepticon/Dirge/dirge.htm More information on Dirge at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===Beast Wars===
[[File:BWII-toy Dirge.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|I'm the closest this mold got to looking like Thundercracker, but instead I'm two different Dirges.]]
*'''Dirge''' ([[1998]])
**''Japanese ID number'': '''D-14'''
**''Accessories'': "Dirge Gun" rifle & barrel
{{note|''[[Beast Wars II (toyline)|Beast Wars II]]'' [[Dirge (BWII)|Dirge]] was officially [[repurposing|repurposed]] as Generation 1 Dirge's new form in the ''[[Beast Wars Shattered Glass]]'' comic.}}

:A [[redeco]] of the ''[[Machine Wars: Transformers|Machine Wars]]'' Basic Class [[Skywarp (G1)/toys|Skywarp]]/[[Thundercracker (G1)/toys|Thundercracker]] mold, Dirge transforms from a [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes#Dassault Rafale|Dassault Rafale fighter jet]] to robot mode with a single-step, spring-loaded transformation. The two halves of his "Dirge Gun" rifle store in his lower legs in jet mode.

:This sculpt was also used to make [[Transformers: Robots in Disguise (2001 toyline)|2001 ''Robots in Disguise'']] [[Skyfire (RID)|Skyfire]], the "[[Dawn of Future's Past]]" version of [[Waspinator (BW)/toys#Timelines|Waspinator]], and ''[[Robotmasters (franchise)|Robotmasters]]'' [[Wingstun#Toys|Wingstun]].

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/1998/Destron/Dirge/dirge.htm More information on Dirge at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===Collector's Edition===
{{anchor|CollEd}}
*'''Dirge''' (Collector's Edition, July [[2001]])
**''Japanese ID number'': '''97'''
**''Accessories'': Left & right fists, front landing gear, 2 [[concussion weapon|concussion missiles]]
:As part of the ''[[Collector's Edition]]'' series of Japanese [[Generation 1 reissues|reissues]] in 2001, a limited run (an estimated 800 pieces made) of Dirge was available [[exclusive]] to the 20th Century Toy Museum event. Dirge came in standardized packaging also used by the other ''Collector's Edition'' [[Decepticon Planes|Jetron]] reissues. Unlike the other 2001 reissues, which were all sold as sets of two individually packaged figures, "Set E" consisted of Dirge all by himself.
{{-}}

===Commemorative Series===
*'''Dirge''' (Commemorative Series VI, [[2004]])
[[File:Commemorativeseriesdirge.jpg|upright=1.22|thumb|WYLD STALLYNS! deedleedleedleedleet]]
**''Accessories'': Left & right fists, front landing gear, 2 [[concussion weapon|concussion missiles]]
:In 2004, a reissue of Dirge was released as part of the [[Toys"R"Us]] exclusive ''[[The Transformers: Generation One Commemorative Series|Commemorative Series]]''. Unlike the reissues of the other Decepticon Planes, Dirge didn't require any notable modifcations to his missiles [[for safety reasons]].

:The package art depicts him having a Seeker head instead of his trademark Cone head.
{{-}}

===Timelines===
[[File:Classics Dirge Toy.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Conehead uncloseted.]]
*'''Games of Deception''' (Multi-pack, [[2007]])
**''Accessories'': Left & right missile launchers, 2 missiles

:''[[Transformers Timelines (toyline)|Timelines]]'' Dirge is part of the ''[[Transformers: Classics|Classics]]''-themed [[BotCon 2007]] box set, along with [[Bug Bite (GoBots)#Timelines|Bug Bite]], [[Dreadwind (G1)#Timelines|Dreadwind]], [[Thrust (G1)/toys#Timelines|Thrust]], and [[Thundercracker (G1)/toys#Timelines|Thundercracker]]. He is a [[redeco]] of the ''Classics'' Deluxe Class [[Ramjet (G1)/toys#Classics|Ramjet]] toy, transforming into a made up fighter based upon the F-15. Dirge's wings were not retooled from ''Classics'' Ramjet's, as the budget would not cover that as well as the more distinctive wings needed for Thrust.<ref>http://wap.bwtf.com/toyreviews/timelines/games/dirge</ref> He also comes with two spring-loaded missile launchers that can mount on his biceps, under his wings, or be used as hand-held weapons. Like his set-mate Thrust, Dirge comes with ''Classics'' Ramjet's bulkier missiles. As with most ''Classics'' toys, he features a heat-sensitive [[rubsign]].

:There were 1500 ''Timelines'' Dirge figures produced.

:This tooling also served as the model for the non-toy [[Dirge (SG)|''Shattered Glass'' incarnation of Dirge]].

::*''[http://tfu.info/2007/Decepticon/BCDirge/dirge.htm More information on Timelines Dirge at TFU.info]''
{{ClassicsSeekerMold}}
{{-}}

===Universe (2008)===
[[File:Universe 2008 Dirge toy.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Wait... if Dirge dies in the past, doesn't that create a [[Paul Eiding|time paradox]]?]]
*'''Autobot Ambush''' (Voyager Deluxe Comic 2-Pack, [[2008]])
**''Series:'' G1 Series
**''Accessories:'' Launcher, missile, Decepticon [[Planet X (Cybertron)|Planet X]]-style [[Cyber Key]]

:A Target-exclusive redeco of ''Galaxy Force'' [[Starscream (Armada)#Cybertron|Starscream]], Dirge transforms into a Cybertronic starfighter. In both modes, plugging a [[Cyber Key]] into his back end flips out a spring-loaded "[[energon]] blade" from each arm. His spring-loaded missile launcher can be used as either a hand-held weapon, or mounted under his jet mode nosecone. His (conveniently color-coded) dark purple Cyber Key is unpainted, save for its silver ''[[Live-action film series|movie]]''-styled Decepticon symbol.

:Some samples of Dirge suffer from a partially compromised key-activated [[gimmick]], with the blade on the right arm not wanting to spring out even when the key is inserted. It can be fairly easily pried out with the included missile (or some other long object).

:He is packed with [[Roadbuster (G1)#Universe (2008)|Roadbuster]] (a redeco of ''[[Transformers: Cybertron (toyline)|Cybertron]]'' [[Hot Shot (Armada)/toys#CyCDF|Cybertron Defense Hot Shot]]) and a comic book. In its first release in Canada, the set did not include a comic (in spite of the ''INCLUDES COMIC!'' marking on the package), and in the US, the set included the ''wrong'' comic. Instead of ''The Dark Ages'' issue "[[Escalation]]", which was meant for the "Standoff Beneath the Streets" Voyager-Deluxe two-pack of [[Springer (G1)#Universe (2008)|Springer]] and [[Ratbat (G1)#Universe (2008)|Ratbat]], the right comic was to be a reprint of "[[Target: 2006]]" parts [[Target: 2006#Wreck and Rule.21|5]] and [[Target: 2006#The Devil You Know...|6]], which was similarly and erroneously included with the "Standoff Beneath the Streets" two-pack.

:This mold was also used for the [[BotCon 2008]]-exclusive ''[[Transformers: Shattered Glass (toyline)|Shattered Glass]]'' [[Starscream (SG)#Timelines|Starscream]].

::*''[http://tfu.info/2008/Decepticon/TFUDirge/dirge.htm More information on Universe Dirge at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===Gentei! Gentei!===
[[File:Henkei Dirge toy.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|AHA! Undeniable proof that Takara does things better than Hasbro! (Sometimes.)]]
*'''Dirge''' (Deluxe, [[2009]])
**''Accessories:'' Left & right missile launchers, 2 Sonic missiles

:''[[Henkei! Henkei! Transformers (toyline)|Gentei! Gentei!]]'' Dirge is a [[TakaraTomy Mall|Toy Hobby Market]] exclusive retool of ''Classics'' Ramjet. Unlike his [[BotCon 2007]] ''Timelines'' version, he has newly tooled wings based upon the wings from his original toy, uses the smaller gun missiles from Starscream, and, unusually for ''Henkei! Henkei!'', features an all-new, colorful [[Hasbro]] ''Classics''-style deco for his new wings. Like all ''Henkei! Henkei!'' toys, he features [[Vacuum metallizing|vacuum metallized]] parts, specifically the barrels of his missile launchers, his engine nozzles and his cockpit interior.

:Dirge was available for pre-order from [[November 13]]th through [[December 10]]th 2008, and shipped in late March of 2009.
{{ClassicsSeekerMold}}
{{-}}

===Generations===
[[File:Generations-toy Dirge.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|Death by mold degradation.]]
*'''Dirge''' (Deluxe Class, [[2010]])
**''Accessories:'' Left & right missile launchers, 2 missiles
:''[[Transformers: Generations (toyline)|Generations]]'' Dirge is a [[redeco]] of ''[[Henkei! Henkei! Transformers (toyline)|Gentei! Gentei!]]'' Dirge.

:Like [[Starscream (G1)/toys#Henkei! Henkei!|Ghost Starscream]] and ''Generations'' [[Thrust (G1)#Generations|Thrust]], Dirge uses the older version of the ''Classics'' Seeker mold used from ''Classics'' [[Skywarp (G1)/toys|Skywarp]] to [[Acid Storm (G1)|Acid Storm]], rather than the newer version used for the majority of the Henkei figures and [[Starscream (G1)/toys#Generation 1 Series|Universe Starscream]], right down to the 2006 copyright rather than 2008 featured on Gentei Dirge. Unlike the Gentei version, this figure only features wing deco on the top side; to compensate for the Decepticon [[insignia|faction symbols]] appearing only on the back in robot mode, a tiny symbol has been [[tampograph]]ed on the upper chest. The wing stripes are based on the G1 figure.

:Initial batches of Dirge [[quality control|lacked]] the white center of the head crest in all three tampographed Decepticon faction symbols. This was [[quality control|fixed]] by a [[variant|running change]].<ref name="dirge">[http://www.seibertron.com/toys/gallery.php?id=2160&size=0&start=176 Comparison between both versions of ''Generations'' Dirge.]</ref> Dirge unfortunately features many reported problems, seemingly caused by the extensive reuse of the original Starscream mold. Such issues include feet that are unable to stay in place in robot mode, extremely loose hip joints and weak butterfly hinges on his shoulders.

::*''[http://tfu.info/2010/Decepticon/GenerationsDirge/dirge.htm More information on Generations Dirge at TFU.info]''
{{ClassicsSeekerMold}}

{{-}}{{anchor|SeekerSquadron}}
====Platinum Edition====
[[File:TF-Platinum-Edition-Seeker-Squadron.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|]]
*'''Seeker Squadron''' (Platinum Edition, 2015)
**''Accessories'': Left & right fists, front landing gear, 2 [[concussion weapon|concussion missiles]]

:A reissue of the original Dirge toy in a ''[[Transformers: Platinum Edition|Platinum Edition]]'' 3-pack with [[Ramjet (G1)/toys#Generations|Ramjet]] and [[Thrust (G1)/toys#SeekerSquadron|Thrust]].

:In the United States, this set was officially a [[Target]] exclusive, though only ever found at a single Target store, otherwise only available via the company's website. However, it was also stocked by US-based online retailers [[BigBadToyStore]] and TFSource, who supposedly obtained it as an import from Asia. It was available in several of Hasbro's Asian markets (namely Singapore, Malaysia and the Philippines; it's currently unknown whether it was exclusive to any particular stores there or not). In Australia, it was sold at Myer stores, whereas in Canada, it was available via the Canadian [[Walmart]] website (but never found in stores).

:In the United Kingdom, it was sold at [[Toys"R"Us]] stores and A1 Toys, whereas in Spain, was officially available via the Spanish division of [[Amazon (website)|Amazon]]. In Germany, it was originally available via Bankroft, an online retailer that otherwise specializes in [[Nerf]] blasters and accessories, as part of a special "Fan Edition" arrangement through Hasbro Germany, with the help of several German [[fandom|fan]] sites. Due to low sales, the unsold stock was later sold to Actionfiguren24, a German online retailer that specializes in imported toys, who was able to lower its price for its existing stock of imported Seeker Squadron sets as a result.
{{-}}

====Alt-Modes====
*'''Dirge''' (Alt-Modes)

:A retool of ''[[Alt-Modes]]'' [[Starscream (G1)/toys#Alt-Modes|Starscream]] with a new head and legs, Dirge was to be a super deformed toy whose body transforms into a jet when the Decepticon faction symbol on his head is flipped. He would have been [[Blindpacking|blind-boxed]] and available in the second series of the toyline, but the line was canceled before he could be released. The toy itself was never shown off even as a prototype, but a 3D render of it was used in solicitations.

:The original version of this mold was also used to make ''Alt-Modes'' [[Thundercracker (G1)/toys#Alt-Modes|Thundercracker]], [[Skywarp (G1)/toys#Alt-Modes|Skywarp]], [[Acid Storm (G1)#Alt-Modes|Acid Storm]] and [[Sunstorm (G1)#Alt-Modes|Sunstorm]].

{{canceledtoy}}

====War for Cybertron: Earthrise====
[[File:TF-WFC-E-Dirge.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|At least he doesn't die from being a Walmart exclusive...]]
*'''Seeker Elite''' (Voyager Class, [[2020]])
**''ID number:'' '''WFC-E27'''
**''Accessories:'' 2 "Null-Ray blasters"
:Released in an Amazon exclusive two-pack with [[Ramjet (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Earthrise|Ramjet]] in the ''[[War for Cybertron: Earthrise (toyline)|Earthrise]]'' toyline, Dirge is a heavy retooling of [[Starscream (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Earthrise|Starscream]] from the same line, transforming into a modified F-15 fighter jet with a delta wing and front canard like his original toy. As one of the Coneheads, Dirge features a new headsculpt based on the original conehead design, though it is a faux piece not formed from the actual nosecone. Dirge's face also features an open-mouthed expression.

:The figure's design and transformation scheme are heavily based on the 2006 ''Classics'' Starscream mold (and its subsequent ''Generations'' retool of Dirge), while adding points of articulation the earlier figure did not have such as pivoting ankles, a more expressive ball-jointed head, and hinges that allow the wings to fold backwards on his legs in robot mode. However, due to this, his torso is very hollow at the sides and his intended waist articulation was dropped due to the physical space required for transformation.

:As with Ramjet, Dirge uses the same, unchanged Null-Ray blasters that came with Starscream. His stock photos show these attached to the jet mode beneath the canards, mounted on the same ports as the robot mode's shoulders; however there are ports on the wings to allow for storage more accurate to the original. .

:The original version of this mold was also used to make ''Earthrise'' [[Skywarp (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Earthrise|Skywarp]] and [[Thundercracker (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Earthrise|Thundercracker]].
{{-}}

===United===
{{anchor|elites}}
[[File:United Seekers Elites.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66]]
*'''Seekers: Elites''' (Three-pack, [[December 28]], [[2012]])
**''Accessories:'' Left & right launchers, 2 missiles
:''[[Transformers United|United]]'' Dirge is a redeco of the ''[[Henkei! Henkei! Transformers (toyline)|Gentei! Gentei!]]/[[Transformers: Generations (toyline)|Generations]]'' Dirge retooling of the ''[[Transformers: Classics|Classics]]'' [[Ramjet (G1)/toys#Classics|Ramjet]] mold. This release marks the first time he is offered with [[Ramjet (G1)/toys#United|Ramjet]] as well as [[Thrust (G1)/toys#United|Thrust]].

:This version of Dirge is more closely based on his cartoon appearance. Like his ''Gentei!''/''Generations'' releases, he comes with the thinner Starscream missiles. His missile launchers are solid dark grey. His wings are undecorated, save for tampographs of his Decepticon [[Insignia|faction symbols]] on both sides of each wing. Dirge features metallic blue paint applications on much of his blue plastic.
{{ClassicsSeekerMold}}
{{-}}

===Kre-O===
[[File:KreO-Toy DirgeKreon.jpg|right|thumb|upright=1.66|Seeing as how often Dirges die, the flak jacket is probably a good idea.]]
* '''Dirge''' (Kreon Micro-Changer, 2012)
**''Bag number'': '''***** 49'''
**''Accessories'': Stand brick, 2 clip-on blasters

: Part of the first normal wave of [[Micro-Changer]] [[Kreon]]s, Dirge is a [[Blindpacking|blindpacked]]-bagged mini-figure, though a stamped ID number can be found on the back of the bag, top-right corner. He comes with extra parts to convert him into a jet. He features new wings which clip into his arms and a new jet nosecone helmet, but reuses [[Starscream (Kre-O)|Starscream]]'s arm-mounted missile pieces.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2013/Decepticon/Kre-ODirge/dirge.htm More information on Dirge at TFU.info]''

{{-}}{{anchor|SDCC2015}}
*'''Kreon Class of '85''' (Kreon figure set, 2015)
**''Set number'' '''B5152'''
**''Voted'': Most Likely to Be Found Wandering the Woods Wearing a Hockey Mask
**''Accessories'': 2 clip-on blasters

:[[Kreon Class of '85]] Dirge's tampographs are much more accurate to the original 1985 toy. He has the wrong wing color, tho. Like all the figures in the set, he uses the almost-wholly-[[retool]]ed 2015 style Kreon body.

: He was only available as part of the [[San Diego Comic-Con]]-[[exclusive]] "Kreon Class of '85" 30-Kreon set. This set was also sold online through [[Hasbro Toy Shop]] after the show.

::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2015/Decepticon/SDCCKre-ODirge/dirge.htm More information on Class of '85 Dirge at TFU.info]''

{{-}}{{Anchor|2016}}
* '''Dirge''' (Kreon Micro-Changer, 2016)
**''Collection'': '''1'''
**''Accessories'': Logo plate, 2 clip-on blasters

:In 2016, the Collection 1 Micro-Changers were re-released in a whole new production run for Dollar General stores in the US as part of a large collection of re-released ''Kre-O'' sets, later seeing release in other budget outlets and drug stores. But where most of these releases are nigh-identical to the originals, the re-released Micro-Changer blind-bags use the almost-entirely-retooled 2015 Kreon, with slightly-differently-hued plastics than the originals. (It is possible for some of the add-on pieces to be in the older hues.) Dirge's torso [[tampograph]] has also been reworked to be slightly more detailed, and the formerly-bare legs now have extra detail tampographing on them.

:Sadly, this release has no individual-identification code on the bag, requiring you to use the feel-through-the-bag method or just buy blind and hope.

===Masterpiece===
[[File:TF-Masterpiece-MP-11ND-Dirge.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Very soon, I will die from Ramjet's flawed shoulders or Thrust's loose waist.]]
*'''Dirge''' ([[June 28]], [[2017]])
**''ID number'': '''MP-11ND'''
**''Accessories'': 2 null rays, 2 sonic missiles, clear hologram pilot figurine

:[[The Transformers: Masterpiece|''Masterpiece'']] Dirge is a redeco/retool of [[Ramjet (G1)/toys#Masterpiece|Ramjet]], with new delta wing and front canard parts.

:Dirge also includes two new "sonic missiles" which are hollow and slip over the mold's ever-present null rays, to recreate the character's signature weapons. When not in use in robot mode, they can be pegged onto his back, using holes on the underside of the front canards. Unlike the other ''Masterpiece'' Coneheads, Dirge does not suffer from any specific quality control issues, but does suffer from general joint looseness to a lesser degree.

:Like the rest of the Coneheads, Dirge was able to be pre-ordered at TakaraTomy Mall from [[December 12]], [[2016]] to [[January 19]], 2017; Dirge was originally scheduled to ship [[May 27]] but was delayed to [[June 28]].
{{MPSeekerMold}}
{{-}}

==Merchandise==
===''Super Collection Figure''===
[[File:SCF Dirge.jpg|right|thumb|300px|The reveal of chase-figure Dirge made a lot of team-completion-minded people... less than happy.]]
*'''Dirge''' ([[2002]])
**''Act'': '''6'''
**''Accessories'': Stand

:A [[retool]]ing of the ''[[Heroes of Cybertron|Super Collection Figure]]'' [[Starscream (G1)/merchandise#Super Collection Figure|Starscream]] mold, Dirge is a three-inch tall non-transforming figure. He was released as a rare "[[chase figure|Secret Figure]]" in the sixth wave of the line, packaged one per every ten cases. It is unknown what figure -if any in specific- he replaced in the lucky cases.

: This Act was seemingly in shorter supply than the others before and since, and is not terribly common on the secondary market.

:This mold was further retooled into normal-release wave-mates [[Ramjet (G1)/toys#Super Collection Figure|Ramjet]] and [[Thrust (G1)/toys#Super Collection Figure|Thrust]]. The original tooling was also used to make [[Thundercracker (G1)/toys#Super Collection Figure|Thundercracker]], [[Skywarp (G1)/toys#Super Collection Figure|Skywarp]], and the ''Heroes of Cybertron'' special releases [[Sunstorm (G1)#Heroes of Cybertron|Sunstorm]] and [[Air Warrior#Heroes of Cybertron|Air Warrior]].

{{-}}

===''Heroes of Cybertron''===
[[File:HOC Dirge.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66| My head's not pointy enough! Someone fix this before I start busting YOUR nice, flat heads.]]
*'''Dirge''' ([[2003]])

:''[[Heroes of Cybertron]]'' Dirge is [[redeco]] of ''Super Collection Figure'' Dirge, cast in translucent red plastic and painted over save his eyes and a spot on the back of his head to create a [[light-piping]] gimmick. His cone-helmet was also rounded off [[for safety reasons]].

: The Hasbro release of Dirge was ''much'' easier to find than his Japanese counterpart, as he was a normal release in wave four, and packed on a blister card rather than in a [[Blindpacking|blindpacked]] box.

: Dirge came with the torso to the [[Fortress Maximus (G1)/toys#Heroes of Cybertron|Fortress Maximus]] Build-A-Figure.

::*''[http://tfu.info/2002/Decepticon/HoCDirge/dirge.htm More information on ''Heroes of Cybertron'' Dirge at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===''MyClone''===
*'''Dirge''' (MyClone, 2003)

:Dirge was a chase figure in the third wave of ''[[MyClone]]'' figures. He's a cute, [[Super deformed]] figure who can be disassembled to switch his components with other MyClones. Dirge shares many, but not all, of his component molds with ''MyClone'' [[Ramjet (G1)/toys|Ramjet]] and [[Thrust (G1)/toys|Thrust]].

===''Transformers - Mini Bust''===
[[File:Dirge statue.jpg|thumb|Worst case of petrification he's ever had.]]
*'''Dirge''' (Diamond Select, 2008)

:Dirge was released by [[Diamond Select Toys]] in 2008 and exclusive to online retailer Big Bad Toy Store. He was sculpted by [[Mark Wong]] of [[Art Asylum]] and limited to 250 pieces. The sculpt features Dirge's distinctive wings.
{{-}}
===Transformers Trading Card Game===
[[File:W2Dirge.jpg|thumb]]
*'''Dirge, Doombringer''' (2019)
**'''Wave 2: Rise of the Combiners'''
**''Rarity: '''''UT'''
**''Card Number: '''''T22/T46'''
**''Stars: ''8

:Dirge, Doombringer is one of forty character cards released in Wave 2 of the [[Transformers Trading Card Game]], Rise of the Combiners.

:The artwork for the card is reused from the [[Transformers Legends (mobile game)|Transformers Legends]] mobile game and is based on the ''[[Transformers: Generations (toyline)|Transformers: Generations]] Dirge figure.

{{-}}

==Notes==
[[File:Ehobbygobotscatalog.jpg|right|upright=1.4|thumb]]
* A 1980s Japanese catalog picture shows the then-new second year Seeker jet wings in different colors attached to unaltered first year Seeker bodies. In Dirge's case, the preliminary toy uses [[Skywarp (G1)/toys|Skywarp]]'s main body parts. This production stage received its own [[packaging art]] that was eventually revealed in the ''[[Legacy: The Art of Transformers Packaging]]'' book.
* Hasbro designed a "pretooled" alternate head on the ''[[Combiner Wars (toyline)|Combiner Wars]]'' Deluxe Class [[Air Raid (G1)#Generations|Air Raid]] body tooling styled on the 1985 Coneheads, but ultimately, only TakaraTomy used this head to make ''[[Transformers Unite Warriors|Unite Warriors]]'' [[Thrust (Armada)#Unite Warriors|Curse Armada Thrust]].<ref>[https://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/127888-tfss-50-live-update-now-open-to-formers-members-2012-and-on/?p=3441554 Post by Powered Convoy on The Allspark Forums, 13 February 2017]</ref>

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:BotCon exclusives]]
[[Category:Classics Decepticons]]
[[Category:Generation 1 toy Decepticons]]
[[Category:Generations]]
[[Category:Henkei! Henkei! Decepticons]]
[[Category:Kre-O Decepticons]]
[[Category:Kreons]]
[[Category:Mail order exclusives]]
[[Category:Masterpiece]]
[[Category:MyClone]]
[[Category:Platinum Edition]]
[[Category:Repurposed toys]]
[[Category:SDCC exclusives]]
[[Category:Target exclusives]]
[[Category:Timelines characters]]
[[Category:United Decepticons]]
[[Category:Universe (2008)]]
[[Category:Universe Decepticons]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Earthrise Decepticons]]

Ramjet (G1)/toys

2020-08-22T03:00:15Z

Spectre: Ramjet's shoulders aren't painted.

{{suite}}

[[File:G1 boxart Ramjet.jpg|upright=1.5|thumb]]

As a [[Conehead]] [[Seeker (body-type)|Seeker]], '''Ramjet''' less often receives a toy whenever [[Starscream (G1)/toys|Starscream]] does.

==Toys==
===''The Transformers''===
{{anchor|Generation 1}}
[[File:G1Ramjet toy.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|'Conehead' or 'Not Conehead']]
*'''Ramjet''' (1985, 1986, 1990)
**''Japanese ID number:'' '''D-56'''
**''Accessories:'' 2 "Cluster Bombs", 2 fists (left & right), 2 wings (left & right), 2 tail fins (left & right), front landing gear

:The original Ramjet toy was a [[retool]] of the ''[[Diaclone]]'' "Jet Robo Acrobat-Type" F-15 Eagle that was used for [[Starscream (G1)/toys|Starscream]], [[Thundercracker (G1)/toys|Thundercracker]], and [[Skywarp (G1)/toys|Skywarp]], with new wings that seem to be inspired by the prototype {{w|F-16XL}}, and new "Cluster Bombs". He is otherwise identical to the other Decepticon jets aside from color. Ramjet's robot mode stickers are the same design as Starscream's, but in different colors.

:In [[robot mode]] his official instructions have the user pulling down his nose cone to complete his head transformation, like Starscream. However, Ramjet's character model depicts him as having his head untransformed, leaving a distinctive "conehead" shape to his appearance. This trait is shared by Thrust and Dirge, leading many owners to do the same thing to differentiate the three later Decepticon jets from the three earlier ones.

:Ramjet was reissued in his original packaging in Australia in 1990.

::*''[http://www.transformerland.com/wiki/toy-info/transformers-g1-decepticon-jets-ramjet/743/ Patent info, price guide, and further reading on Ramjet at Transformerland.com]''
::*''[http://tfu.info/1985/Decepticon/Ramjet/ramjet.htm More information on Ramjet at TFU.info]''

===Collector's Edition===
*'''Ramjet''' (2001)
**''ID number:'' '''Set D'''
**''Accessories'': 2 "Cluster Bombs", 2 fists (left & right), 2 wings (left & right), 2 tail fins (left & right), front landing gear

:Ramjet received a limited reissue as part of [[TakaraTomy|Takara]]'s [[Collector's Edition]] series. With no notable changes from the G1 release, Collector's Edition Ramjet was [[exclusive]]ly available at Jaf-Con 10 in July 2001, along with Thrust.

{{-}}

===Generation 2===
[[File:G2 Ramjet toy.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|'90s fashion victim.]]
*'''Ramjet''' (1993, 1994)
**''Accessories:'' 2 missile launchers, 2 missiles, 2 fists (left & right), 2 wings (left & right), 2 tail fins, front landing gear, sound effects box

:For the ''[[Transformers: Generation 2 (toyline)|Generation 2]]'' toyline, Ramjet was [[redeco]]ed with the purple replacing white, black replacing burgundy, and sky blue replacing the original black, leaving him to appear as if he were Skeletor's personal aircraft. Still, he features new firing missile launchers and a sound effects box which is mounted above his engines. These parts were also used on the ''Generation 2'' release of Starscream.

:Of note is the fact that his sky blue parts are extremely prone to [[Photodegradation|''yellowing'']], or in this case ''greening''. Many ''Generation 2'' Ramjets can be found with their blue parts in a teal color.

:This version of the mold would also have been used to make ''Generation 2'' [[Sandstorm (G2)|Sandstorm]].

::*''[http://tfu.info/1993/Decepticon/Ramjet/ramjet.htm G2 Ramjet at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===Classics===
{{anchor|Classics (2006)}}
[[File:Classics Ramjet toy.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|The flared pants craze strikes again]]
*'''Ramjet''' (Deluxe Class, 2007)
**''Accessories:'' 2 missile launchers (left & right), 2 missiles

:''[[Transformers: Classics|Classics]]'' Ramjet, following the trend set by his original Generation 1 toy, is a retool of ''Classics'' [[Starscream (G1)/toys#Classics|Starscream]] and transforms into a modified fighter jet based off the hull of an F-15 Eagle. The figure's deco is greatly simplified from Ramjet's G1 toy and cartoon decos, largely reducing the amount of black and red in favor of white. Aside from the different deco, changes from Starscream include a new nose cone/head, new F-16XL inspired wings and new projectiles for his missile launchers. The new missiles, combined with their launchers, result in a mash-up between his G1 toy's non-firing weapons and his animation model's standard-issue Seeker rifles. Unlike Starscream, his shoulder movement is unimpeded due to a lack of wings behind his shoulders.

:As with most ''Classics'' toys, he features a heat-sensitive [[rubsign]].

:Ramjet's instructions neglect a couple of features on his toy; the wings can swivel back and forth and up and down in robot mode, to better balance the figure, and the circular air intakes on his chest can swivel out in either mode. The latter is used to form landing gear in his [[alternate mode|vehicle mode]], as it was in both Starscream and Skywarp.

::*''[http://tfu.info/2007/Decepticon/ClassicsRamjet/ramjet.htm Classics Ramjet at TFU.info]''
{{ClassicsSeekerMold}}
{{-}}

===Henkei! Henkei!===
[[File:Henkei Ramjet toy.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Beware the man in white]]
*'''Ramjet''' ([[July 17]], [[2008]])
**''ID number:'' '''D-04'''
**''Accessories:'' 2 missile launchers (left & right), 2 missiles

:''[[Henkei! Henkei! Transformers (toyline)|Henkei! Henkei!]] Transformers'' Ramjet is a redeco of ''Classics'' Deluxe Class Ramjet. He features a significantly altered colour scheme, generally to make the toy even more closely resemble his appearance in the Generation 1 cartoon. His wings and missiles are molded in bright red plastic instead of gray plastic with red paint, with his missiles painted gray. His hands and feet are molded in white plastic instead of gray, to match more closely the cartoon model. Despite the figure's appearance, ''Henkei!'' Ramjet features no gray plastic at all, only white or red plastic painted gray, meaning he is is heavily painted and thus easily succeptable to paint chipping. Ramjet, like the other figures in the line features vacuum-metalized parts, his jet boosters and vertical stabilizers on his wings and his cockpit seat are chrome plated, though it is not uncommon for the innards of his jet boosters to be partially lacking the metalized coating. As ''Henkei!'' toys do not feature heat-sensitive rubsigns, ''Henkei'' Ramjet has five Decepticon sigils tampographed total, one each on the top side and under side of his two wings and one in front of his canopy.

:Ramjet was retooled into ''Gentei! Gentei!'' [[Thrust (G1)/toys#Henkei! Henkei!|Thrust]] and [[Dirge (G1)/toys#Henkei! Henkei!|Dirge]].
{{-}}

===Universe (2008)===
[[File:Universe-AR-Ramjet.JPG|upright=1.66|thumb]]
*'''Aerial Rivals''' (Multi-pack, 2008)
**''Series'': '''Classic Series'''

:A [[redeco]] of ''[[Transformers: Cybertron (toyline)|Cybertron]]'' [[Legends Class (2005)|Legends of Cybertron]] [[Starscream (Armada)/toys#LOC|Starscream]], [[Transformers: Universe (2008 toyline)|''Universe'']] Ramjet transforms into a Cybertronic "tetrajet". His wings, which end up on his arms in robot mode, each feature a swing-out weapon; the right arm has a blade, while the left has a (non-firing) cannon. He was only available in a [[Target]]-[[exclusive]] five-pack with [[Air Raid (G1)#Universe (2008)|Air Raid]], [[Blades (G1)#LOC|Autobot Blades]], [[Skydive (G1 Aerialbot)#Universe (2008)|Skydive]], and [[Thrust (G1)/toys#Universe (2008)|Thrust]] (who shares his mold).

:Aside from Thrust, this mold was also used to make ''Cybertron'' [[Skywarp (Armada)#Cybertron|Skywarp]], [[Sunstorm (Universe)#Cybertron|Sunstorm]], & [[Ramjet (Universe)#Cybertron|Ramjet]], ''[[Transformers: War for Cybertron (franchise)#Toys|War for Cybertron]]'' [[Starscream (WFC)#War for Cybertron|Starscream]], and [[Transformers: Dark of the Moon (toyline)|''Dark of the Moon'']] [[Starscream (Movie)/toys#BeeStarscream|Cybertronian Starscream]].

::*''[http://tfu.info/2008/Decepticon/TFURamjet/ramjet.htm Universe (2008) Ramjet at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===Timelines===
[[File:Timelines-toy G2Ramjet.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|[[Joker|The Joker]] has a jet now?]]
*'''Ramjet''' (Club exclusive figure, 2011)
**''Accessories:'' 2 missile launchers (left & right), 2 missiles

:''[[Transformers Timelines (toyline)|Timelines]]''/''Generation 2'' Ramjet is one of the 2011 [[Transformers Collectors' Club]] exclusive figures. He is a redeco of ''Classics'' Deluxe Class Ramjet in the colors of [[#Generation 2|his ''Generation 2'' toy]], including replicating most of the sticker details. Most of the sticker details were recreated with paint, but the details on the insides of his shoulder intakes and on the tops of his feet were once again stickers, presumably because it was rough getting tampographs put in there. Ramjet was also slightly [[retool]]ed, as his nosecone is rounded off and made of rubber instead of plastic, presumably [[for safety reasons]]. Ramjet (and [[Cheetor (Animated)#Toys|Cheetor]]) went up for preorder on [[April 27]], [[2011]]. Ramjet was sold out by [[April 29]], 2011.

::*''[http://tfu.info/2011/Decepticon/TFCCRamjet/ramjet.htm More information on ''Timelines'' Ramjet at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===United===
{{anchor|elites}}
[[File:United Seekers Elites.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66]]
*'''Seekers: Elites''' (Three-pack, [[December 28]], [[2012]])
**''Accessories:'' Left & right launchers, 2 missiles

:''[[Transformers United|United]]'' Ramjet is a redeco of the [[#Classics|''Classics'' Ramjet]] mold. This release is the first time he is offered with both of his wing mates [[Dirge (G1)/toys#United|Dirge]] and [[Thrust (G1)/toys#United|Thrust]].

:This version of Ramjet is more closely based on his cartoon appearance, although he retains the bulkier G1 toy-inspired missiles of his earlier releases. His missile launchers are solid dark grey. His hands and forearms are dark grey plastic, with the forearms painted white. His wings are painted metallic red, while his jet boosters and stabilizers are dark grey plastic. Like his ''[[Henkei! Henkei! Transformers (toyline)|Henkei! Henkei!]]'' release, his Decepticon [[Insignia|faction symbols]] are tampographed on both sides of his wings, and on his nosecone in front of the cockpit.
{{-}}

===Kre-O===
[[File:KreO-Toy RamjetKreon.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|All we need now is a Rumble and we'll have the Kreon version of "[[A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court (episode)|A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court]]"!]]
* '''Ramjet''' (Kreon Micro-Changer, 2013)
**''Collection'': '''Collection 3'''
**''Bag number'': '''***** 53'''
**''Accessories'': Logo brick, 2 clip-on rifles

:As part of the third wave of [[blindpacking|blindpacked]] ''[[Kre-O]]'' [[Micro-Changer]]s, Ramjet is a [[Kreon]] who can be rebuilt into a tiny jet. He is essentially a [[redeco]] of Kreon [[Dirge (G1)/toys#Kre-O|Dirge]], using almost all the same parts and construction; except that he comes with a new back-harness attachment piece to replace the flak jacket used in Dirge's assortment.

: This Micro-Changer assortment was the last one to appear at [[Target]], with later waves showing up only at [[Toys"R"Us|ToysЯUs]] or drug/discount stores.

::*''[http://tfu.info/2013/Decepticon/Kre-ORamjet/ramjet.htm More information on Micro-Changer Ramjet at TFU.info]''

{{-}}{{anchor|SDCC2015}}
*'''Kreon Class of '85''' (Kreon figure set, [[2015]])
**''Set number'': '''B5152'''
**''Voted'': Best Headbutt
**''Accessories'': 2 clip-on rifles

:[[Kreon Class of '85]] Ramjet's deco is much more heavily toy-detailed than the Micro-Changer. Oddly, his leg-wings are black instead of burgundy. Like the rest of the set, he uses the almost-totally-[[retool]]ed 2015 style of Kreon body.

:This box set of thirty Kreons was a [[San Diego Comic-Con]] 2015 [[exclusive]], with leftovers being sold on [[Hasbro Toy Shop]] online after the show.

::*''[http://tfu.info/2015/Decepticon/SDCCKre-ORamjet/ramjet.htm More information on Class of '85 Ramjet at TFU.info]''

{{-}}{{anchor|2015Kreon}}
*'''Ramjet''' (Kreon Micro-Changer, [[2017]])
**''Collection'': '''Collection 3'''
**''Accessories'': Logo plate, 2 clip-on rifles

:In 2017, the Collection 3 Micro-Changers were re-released in a whole new production run, first appearing at [[Walgreens]] stores in the U.S. These releases use the almost-entirely-[[retool]]ed 2015 Kreon (making most parts incompatible with older Kreons), with slightly-differently-hued plastics than the originals. Ramjet's [[tampograph]]s are slightly altered, changing the flat light gray to metallic silver.

:Sadly, this release has no individual-identification code on the bag, requiring you to use the feel-through-the-bag method or just buy blind and hope.

===Generations===
====Platinum Edition====
[[File:TF-Platinum-Edition-Seeker-Squadron.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb]]
*'''Seeker Squadron''' (Platinum Edition, 2015)
**''Accessories'': 2 "Cluster Bombs", 2 fists (left & right), 2 wings (left & right), 2 tail fins (left & right), front landing gear

:A reissue of the original Ramjet toy in a ''[[Transformers: Platinum Edition|Platinum Edition]]'' 3-pack with [[Thrust (G1)/toys#SeekerSquadron|Thrust]] and [[Dirge (G1)/toys#SeekerSquadron|Dirge]].

:In the United States, this set was officially a [[Target]] exclusive, though only ever found at a single Target store, otherwise only available via the company's website. However, it was also stocked by US-based online retailers [[BigBadToyStore]] and TFSource, who supposedly obtained it as an import from Asia. It was available in several of Hasbro's Asian markets (namely Singapore, Malaysia, and the Philippines; it's currently unknown whether it was exclusive to any particular stores there or not). In Australia, it was sold at Myer stores, whereas in Canada, it was available via the Canadian [[Walmart]] website (but never found in stores).

:In the United Kingdom, it was sold at [[Toys"R"Us]] stores and A1 Toys, whereas in Spain, was officially available via the Spanish division of [[Amazon (website)|Amazon]]. In Germany, it was originally available via Bankroft, an online retailer that otherwise specializes in [[Nerf]] blasters and accessories, as part of a special "Fan Edition" arrangement through Hasbro Germany, with the help of several German [[fandom|fan]] sites. Due to low sales, the unsold stock was later sold to Actionfiguren24, a German online retailer that specializes in imported toys, who was able to lower its price for its existing stock of imported Seeker Squadron sets as a result.

====War for Cybertron: Earthrise====
[[File:TF-WFC-E-Ramjet.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Does not come with an Amazon exclusive toast.]]
*'''Seeker Elite''' (Voyager Class, [[2020]])
**''ID number:'' '''WFC-E27'''
**''Accessories:'' 2 "Null-Ray blasters"
:Released in an Amazon exclusive two-pack with [[Dirge (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Earthrise|Dirge]] in the ''[[War for Cybertron: Earthrise (toyline)|Earthrise]]'' toyline, Ramjet is a heavy retooling of [[Starscream (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Earthrise|Starscream]] from the same line, transforming into a modified F-15 fighter jet with cranked-arrow delta wings based on the F-16XL prototype like his original toy. As one of the Coneheads, Ramjet features a new headsculpt based on the original conehead design, though it is a faux piece not formed from the actual nosecone. Ramjet's face also features a stern, almost grimaced expression.

:The figure's design and transformation scheme are heavily based on the 2006 ''Classics'' Starscream mold (and it's subsequent retool of Ramjet), while adding points of articulation the earlier figure did not have such as pivoting ankles, a more expressive ball-jointed head, and hinges that allow the wings to fold backwards on his legs in robot mode. However, due to this, his torso is very hollow at the sides and his intended waist articulation was dropped due to the physical space required for transformation.

:As with Dirge, Ramjet uses the same, unchanged Null-Ray blasters that came with Starscream. His stock photos show him slightly mis-tranformed, with his feet splayed apart in jet mode.

:The original version of this mold was also used to make ''Earthrise'' [[Skywarp (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Earthrise|Skywarp]] and [[Thundercracker (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Earthrise|Thundercracker]]. It was redecoed into [[Sandstorm_(G2)#Generations|Sandstorm]].

{{-}}

===Masterpiece===
[[File:TF-Masterpiece-MP-11NR-Ramjet.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Sadly does not come with real toast.]]
*'''Ramjet''' ([[March 19]], [[2016]])
**''ID number:'' '''MP-11NR'''
**''Accessories:'' 2 null rays, clear hologram pilot figurine

:''[[The Transformers: Masterpiece|Masterpiece]]'' MP11NR Ramjet was revealed on the TakaraTomy Mall website in October 2015 as a TakaraTomy Mall exclusive, the first [[Conehead]] retool of [[Starscream (G1)/toys#MP11|''Masterpiece'' MP-11 Starscream]]. Later the same day, the listing disappeared before the preorder period started. The listing reappeared at the end of November, with preorders staying open from [[November 30]] to [[December 8]]. It was limited to 2000 pieces in Japan.

:The pictures in the original October listings had the figure slightly mistransformed in jet mode (the nosecone was not fully closed) and featured the hologram pilot cast in orange plastic, while the updated pics from the November listing show the figure's nosecone correctly closed and the hologram pilot is now cast in clear plastic.

:Unfortunately, quality control problems with this figure are very commonplace, with seemingly a majority of specimens having a [[misassembly]] in the robot shoulders that prevents fully locking the wings together in jet mode.

:Ramjet was further remolded, naturally, into [[Thrust (G1)/toys#Masterpiece|MP-11NT Thrust]] and [[Dirge (G1)/toys#Masterpiece|MP-11ND Dirge]], also TakaraTomy Mall exclusives.

{{MPSeekerMold}}
{{-}}

==Merchandise==
===Super Collection Figure===
[[File:SCF Ramjet.jpg|right|thumb|300px|But he wasn't really the Pope, just an alien robot with a funny hat.]]
*'''Ramjet''' (2003)
**''Act'': '''6'''
**''Accessories'': Stand

: A [[retool]]ing of the ''[[Heroes of Cybertron|Super Collection Figure]]'' [[Starscream (G1)/merchandise#Super Collection Figure|Starscream]] figure, Ramjet was released in the sixth "act" of the line. No he's not super cartoon-accurate. He was available in both full-color and pewter versions, one of each in a case of twelve.

: The pewter version of the figure has a potential problem with connector peg breakage, due to said pegs often getting a layer of pewter paint before being forced into a socket, leading to sticking and tearing. Care should be used when moving or removing the arms; shaving down the socket interior with a thin hobby knife is usually sufficient to fix the issue.

: In eight out of every ten cases, the pewter version of Ramjet was packed with the right arm of the Act's "build-a-figure" [[Grand Maximus#Super Collection Figure|Grand Maximus]]. This part too could be in either full color or pewter, packed at a ratio of six color pieces to two pewters.

: This Act was seemingly in shorter supply than the others before and since, and is not terribly common on the secondary market.

: This mold was also used to make his Act-mates [[Thrust (G1)/toys#Super Collection Figure|Thrust]] and [[Dirge (G1)/toys#Super Collection Figure|Dirge]]. The original tooling was also used to make [[Thundercracker (G1)/toys#Super Collection Figure|Thundercracker]], [[Skywarp (G1)/toys#Super Collection Figure|Skywarp]], and the ''Heroes of Cybertron'' special releases [[Sunstorm (G1)#Heroes of Cybertron|Sunstorm]] and [[Air Warrior#Heroes of Cybertron|Air Warrior]].

::*''[http://tfu.info/2002/Destron/Ramjet/ramjet.htm More information on ''Super Collection Figure'' Ramjet at TFU.info]''
::*''[http://tfu.info/2002/Destron/PewterRamjet/ramjet.htm More information on pewter Ramjet at TFU.info]''
{{-}}

===MyClone===
[[File:MyCloneRamjet.jpg|thumb|upright=0.44|Ever been headbutted by a chibi? It HURTS!]]
*'''Ramjet''' (2003)
**''Japanese ID number:'' '''MTF016'''

:''[[MyClone]]'' Ramjet was released in the fifth series of the ''MyClone'' trading figure line, which was third and final series to feature ''Transformers'' characters. Following the ''MyClone'' aesthetic, he is a cutesy representation of Ramjet's animation model in super-deformed proportions. He features articulation in his head, shoulders, elbows, waist, hips and knees, all of the parts capable of being removed, then mixed and matched with any other ''MyClone'' figure.
{{-}}

===3D Battle-Card Game===
[[File:3DBattleCard Ramjet.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4]]
*'''Ramjet''' (2007)

:A 34-point "common" character in the [[3D Battle-Card Game|3D Battle-Card Game's]] "Energon Wars" expansion, Ramjet "transforms" into a white and red jet, generally following his ''Classics'' deco scheme. He uses the same parts layout as [[Transformers (film)|Movie]] [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]], [[Dreadwing (Movie)|Dreadwing]], [[Thundercracker (Movie)|Thundercracker]], and [[Jetfire (Movie)|Jetfire]], and Generation 1 [[Starscream (G1)/toys|Starscream]] and [[Skywarp (G1)/toys|Skywarp]].
{{-}}

===Transformers - Mini Bust===
[[File:Ramjet statue.jpg|thumb|More fragile than his tech spec would have you believe.]]
*'''Ramjet''' (Diamond Select, 2008)

:Ramjet was released by [[Diamond Select Toys]] in 2008 and exclusive to online retailer Big Bad Toy Store. He was sculpted by [[Mark Wong]] of [[Art Asylum]] and limited to 250 pieces. The sculpt features Ramjet's distinctive wings. Strangely enough his motto on the box is "The skies are my castle, and I like to live alone" as found *in* his tech spec as opposed to "If it flies, crash it" as it was in both his tech spec and [[The Transformers Universe|''Transformers Universe'' profile]].
{{-}}

===The Loyal Subjects===
[[File:Tlsramjet.jpg|thumb|upright=1.1|Undesirable #1]]
*'''Ramjet'''

:[[The Loyal Subjects]] Ramjet is a Wave 2 figure with standard articulation. He is mostly based on his ''Classics'' toy. For every 16 figures, there are 2 Ramjets. The basic mold, but not the accessories, was also used to make Dirge and Thrust, as well as the "Ghost" versions of all three Coneheads.
{{-}}
===Transformers Trading Card Game===
[[File:W1Ramjet.jpg|thumb]]
*'''Ramjet, Sky Smasher''' (2018)
**'''Wave 1'''
**''Rarity: '''''CT'''
**''Card Number: '''''T32/T40'''
**''Stars: ''10
:'''Ramjet, Sky Smasher''' is one of forty double-sided character cards available in Wave 1 of the [[Transformers Trading Card Game]].

:The artwork for the card is reused from the ''[[Transformers Legends (mobile game)|Transformers Legends]]'' mobile card game.
{{-}}

==Notes==
[[File:WhizBangNavyRamjetRedeco.jpg|thumb|upright=1.1|In the NA-VY, in the NA-VY...]]
* A 1980s Japanese [[:File:Ehobbygobotscatalog.jpg|catalog photo]] shows the then-new second year Seeker jet wings in different colors attached to unaltered first year Seeker bodies. In Ramjet's case, the [[prototype]] toy uses [[Starscream (G1)/toys|Starscream]]'s main body. This production stage lasted long enough to receive its own [[package art]] that was eventually published in the [[2014]] ''[[Legacy: The Art of Transformers Packaging]]'' book.
*The [[#Generation 2|''Generation 2'' Ramjet toy]] provided inspiration for generic Decepticons in [[IDW Publishing]]'s [[The Transformers: Robots in Disguise|''The Transformers'' vol. 2]] [[The Transgressors|#44]] and ''[[Transformers vs. G.I. Joe]]'' [[Pax Megatronus|#8]].
*Speaking of G2, Hasbro evidently had more redeco plans for Ramjet (and the paired [[Starscream (G1)/toys#Generation 2|Starscream]]) that fell through:
**''Generation 2'' concept art published in the 2011 ''[[Transformers Vault]]'' book shows an unreleased tannish variant of Ramjet that would have been named "[[Sandstorm (G2)|Sandstorm]]". Most likely, Sandstorm would have debuted alongside "[[Blackout (G2)|Blackout]]", whose prototypes and artwork have been uncovered under similar conditions.
**Another hand-painted mock-up, this time of the original Ramjet in "cloud camo" deco, is also known to exist. Whether it was ever meant to be taken into production and whether it was meant to be Ramjet or a new character remains unknown. It was originally offered for sale in [http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.transformers/browse_thread/thread/4f98fe3d58bfe696/b1d0163d38587281?q=ramjet+whiz+bang+toys&pli=1 October of 2000] from Whiz Bang Collectibles, along with other items seemingly from a former Hasbro employee's collection.<ref>[http://www.toyarchive.com/Transformers/Prototypes/Generation2/RamjetRecolor1.html Blue Ramjet at Toyarchive.com]</ref> Possibly, "cloud camo Ramjet" would have been paired for release alongside "[[Starscream (G1)/toys#Notes|jungle attack Starscream]]".
* Hasbro designed a "pretooled" alternate head on the ''[[Combiner Wars (toyline)|Combiner Wars]]'' Deluxe Class [[Air Raid (G1)#Generations|Air Raid]] body tooling styled on the 1985 Coneheads, but ultimately, only TakaraTomy used this head to make ''[[Transformers Unite Warriors|Unite Warriors]]'' [[Thrust (Armada)#Unite Warriors|Curse Armada Thrust]].<ref>[https://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/127888-tfss-50-live-update-now-open-to-formers-members-2012-and-on/?p=3441554 Post by Powered Convoy on The Allspark Forums, 13 February 2017]</ref>

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:3D Battle-Cards]]
[[Category:Classics Decepticons]]
[[Category:Fan Club exclusives]]
[[Category:Generation 1 toy Decepticons]]
[[Category:Generation 2 Decepticons]]
[[Category:Generations]]
[[Category:Kre-O Decepticons]]
[[Category:Kreons]]
[[Category:Masterpiece]]
[[Category:MyClone]]
[[Category:Platinum Edition]]
[[Category:SDCC exclusives]]
[[Category:Target exclusives]]
[[Category:Timelines characters]]
[[Category:United Decepticons]]
[[Category:Universe (2008)]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Earthrise Decepticons]]

Generations Selects (toyline)

2020-08-22T01:37:55Z

Spectre: Nightbird has a Decepticon symbol on her instructions. The Mercenary symbol wasn’t even introduced yet.

{{nav-gs}}

Debuting in [[2019]], '''''Generations Selects''''' is a mail-order series sold exclusively through online retailers, intersecting multiple thematic sublines of ''[[Transformers: Generations (toyline)|Generations]]''. The line consists of special edition redecoes and retools of ''Generations'' figures, packaged in brown cardboard mailer boxes vaguely similar to the late [[Transformers Collectors' Club|TFCC]] [[Transformers Figure Subscription Service|Figure Subscription Service]].

As with other ''Transformers'' lines from [[2018]] onward, Hasbro and TakaraTomy generally aim to make ''Generations Selects'' equally available to fans in each other's primary market. U.S. and Canadian fans (except in Québec) can purchase Takara ''Selects'' figures from [[Hasbro Pulse]] while Japanese fans can purchase Hasbro ''Selects'' figures from [[TakaraTomy Mall]].

{{TOCclear}}

==Toys==
===Hasbro===
Hasbro announced the ''Generations Selects'' branding in late 2018, with Ricochet and Red Swoop as the nominal debut figures for the line. However, the first figure to reach fans wound up being Combat Megatron, who was made available for order concurrently with New York [[Toy Fair 2019]]. Packaged in robot mode, Hasbro's ''Selects'' figures have no price markup compared to regular retail figures. [[Hasbro Pulse]] debuts ''Generations Selects'' figures for the U.S. and Canadian markets while fans in Hasbro's other markets must resort to various physical or online retailers, with the only exclusive being [[Red Wing#Generations|Decepticon Red Wing]] to the [[Target]] website. Thus far, Hasbro ''Selects'' figures have been limited to straight redecoes, sometimes with "pretooled" alternate heads and accessories.

The packaging for Hasbro ''Generations Selects'' figures are labeled as ''[[War for Cybertron Trilogy]]''. From Ricochet to Hot Shot, the instructions included within are branded with the base mold's original toyline. However, the instructions for Soundwave Spy Patrol 3rd Unit onward are only labeled ''War for Cybertron Trilogy'' (though the Spy Patrol set was [[:File:ToyFair2020-HasbroSlideShow11.jpg|labeled]] as part of ''[[War for Cybertron: Earthrise (toyline)|Earthrise]]'' during the [[Toy Fair 2020]] presentation).

{| style="margin-left:1em;" width="100%"
|width="20%" valign="top"|<u>'''''[[Power of the Primes (toyline)|Power of the Primes]]</u>
<ul class="iconlist">
{{Bp-a1|[[Ricochet (Headmasters)#Generations|Ricochet]]}}
{{Bp-a1|[[Swoop (G1)/toys#Selects|Dinobot Red Swoop]]}}
</ul>

|width="20%" valign="top"|<u>'''''[[War for Cybertron: Siege (toyline)|Siege]]</u>
<ul class="iconlist">
{{Bp-d1|WFC-GS01 [[Megatron (G1)/toys#GS01|Combat Megatron]]}}
{{Bp-d1|WFC-GS02 [[Red Wing#Generations|Decepticon Red Wing]]}}
{{Bp-d1|WFC-GS03 [[Shockwave (G1)/toys#GS03|Galactic Man Shockwave]]}}
{{Bp-a1|WFC-GS04 [[Cromar#Generations|Powerdasher Cromar]]}}
{{Bp-a1|WFC-GS05 [[Lancer#Toys|Autobot Lancer]]}}
{{Bp-a1|WFC-GS06 [[Smokescreen (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Siege|Smokescreen]]}}
{{Bp-d1|WFC-GS07 [[Nightbird (G1)#Generations|Nightbird]]}}
{{Bp-a1|WFC-GS08 [[Zetar (G1)#Generations|Powerdasher Zetar]]}}
{{Bp-a1|WFC-GS09 [[Hot Shot (Henkei!)#Generations|Hot Shot]]}}

|width="20%" valign="top"|<u>'''''[[War for Cybertron Trilogy]]</u>
<ul class="iconlist">
{{Bp-a1d1|WFC-GS10 Soundwave Spy Patrol 3rd Unit ([[Wingthing_(G1)#Generations|Decepticon Wingthing]], [[Frenzy (G1)/toys#War for Cybertron: Earthrise|Decepticon Frenzy]], [[Skar (Decepticon)#Generations|Decepticon Skar]] & [[Knok#Generations|Autobot/Decepticon Knok]])}}
{{Bp-merc|WFC-GS11 [[Exhaust#Generations|Decepticon Exhaust]]}}
{{Bp-d1|WFC-GS12 [[Greasepit (facility)#Generations|Greasepit]]}}
{{Bp-a1|WFC-GS13 [[Hubcap (G1)#Generations|Hubcap]]}}
{{Bp-a1|WFC-GS15 [[Hot House (facility)#Generations|Hot House]]}}
{{Bp-merc|WFC-GS16 [[Bug Bite (GoBots)#Generations|Bug Bite]]}}
{{Bp-a1|WFC-GS18 [[Tigertrack#Generations|Autobot Tigertrack]]}}
{{Bp-a1|WFC-GS19 [[Rotorstorm (G1)#Generations|Rotorstorm]]}}
</ul>
|[[File:Selects-Siege-WFC-GS02-Voyager-RedWing.jpg|thumb|250px|Voyager Class Red Wing]]
|}
{{comingsoontoy|Hot House, Bug Bite, Tigertrack}}

===TakaraTomy===
TakaraTomy's ''Generation Selects'' {{sic}} (ジェネレーションセレクト ''Jenerēshon Serekuto'') figures succeed the niche of the previous [[2014]] to [[2018]] ''[[Transformers Legends (franchise)|Legends]]'' and ''[[Transformers Unite Warriors|Unite Warriors]]'' series, featuring uniquely extensive retooling and higher-budget paint operations for accuracy to each character's era of origin in the [[Japanese Generation 1 cartoon continuity]]. Due to the ''Transformers'' market in Japan being smaller and shrinking, Takara's turnout of ''Selects'' figures is smaller compared to ''Legends'' and ''Unite Warriors''. As with those lines, Takara's figures are packaged in alternate mode.

As per brand unification, [[Hasbro Pulse]] releases these figures with no changes save for a black packaging sleeve labeled in English.

{| style="margin-left:1em;" width="100%"
|width="20%" valign="top"|<u>'''Wave 1''' [[September 28]], 2019</u>
<ul class="iconlist">
{{Bp-a1|TT-GS01 [[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#Selects|Star Convoy]]}}
</ul>
|
|width="20%" valign="top"|<u>'''Wave 2''' [[January 25]], 2020</u>
<ul class="iconlist">
{{Bp-d1|TT-GS03 [[Turtler#Generations|Seacons Turtler]]}}
{{Bp-d1|TT-GS04 [[Gulf#Generations|Seacons Gulf]]}}
</ul>
|
|width="20%" valign="top"|<u>'''Wave 3''' [[February 29]], 2020</u>
<ul class="iconlist">

{{Bp-d1|TT-GS02 [[Kraken#Generations|Seacons Kraken]]}}
{{Bp-d1|TT-GS06 [[Lobclaw#Generations|Seacons Lobclow]] {{sic}}}}
</ul>
|
|width="20%" valign="top"|<u>'''Wave 4''' [[March 28]], 2020</u>
<ul class="iconlist">

{{Bp-d1|TT-GS07 [[Overbite (Masterforce)#Generations|Seacons Overbite]]}}
{{Bp-d1|TT-GS08 [[Tentakil (Masterforce)#Generations|Seacons Tentakil]]}}
</ul>
|
|width="20%" valign="top" rowspan=2|[[File:TF-Generations-Selects-Star-Convoy.jpg|Leader Class Star Convoy|thumb|250px]]
|-
|width="20%" valign="top"|<u>'''Wave 5''' [[September 26]], 2020</u>
<ul class="iconlist">
{{Bp-d1|TT-GS09 [[Megatron (G1)/toys#Selects|Super Megatron]]}}

</ul>
|
|width="20%" valign="top"|<u>'''Wave 6''' [[October 31]], 2020</u>
<ul class="iconlist">
{{Bp-p1|TT-GS10 [[God Neptune (BWII)#Generations|God Neptune]] ([[Coelagon#Generations|Coelagon]], [[Halfshell#Generations|Halfshell]], [[Scylla]], [[sea Phantom#Generations|Sea Phantom]], [[Terrormander#Generations|Terrormander]])}}
</ul>

|}

{{comingsoontoy|Super Megatron and God Neptune}}

==Notes==
*Shortly before the inception of ''Generations Selects'', Hasbro seems to have tested the concept of "special edition" Deluxe Class figures in boxed packaging with ''[[Titans Return (toyline)|Titans Return]]'' [[Arcee (G1)/toys#Titans Return|Arcee]] and [[Grotusque#Generations|Grotusque]], followed up by ''[[Prime Wars Trilogy]]'' [[Blast Off (G1)#PWTSE|Blast Off]], [[Repugnus (G1)#PWTSE|Repugnus]], and [[Punch (G1)#Power of the Primes|Punch-Counterpunch]].

===Foreign names===
*''Mandarin'': '''Biànxíngjīngāng Shìdài Jīngxuǎn Xìliè''' (變形金剛世代精選系列, "Transformers Generations Selects Series"), '''Biànxíngjīngāng Shìdài Xìliè Jīngxuǎn''' (變形金剛世代系列精選, "Transformers Generations Series Selects")

==External links==
*[https://news.tfw2005.com/2018/11/30/generations-select-series-swoop-and-ricochet-revealed-online-exclusives-377810 Announcement of Ricochet and Red Swoop]

[[Category:Selects|Selects]]
[[Category:Toylines]]

Cratermaker

2019-07-29T19:34:38Z

Spectre:

{{factions|decepticon}}
:''Cratermaker is a [[Decepticon]] [[Micromaster]] from the [[Generation 1 continuity family|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''
{{mainpic}}
'''Cratermaker''' makes craters. Sounds about right.

==Toys==
===''Generations''===
====War for Cybertron: Siege====
*'''Autobots vs. Decepticons''' (Micromaster multi-pack, 2019)
**''ID number'': '''WFC-S62'''

: Cratermaker is a [[retool]] of ''[[War for Cybertron: Siege (toyline)|Siege]]'' [[Flak (G1)#Generations|Flak]], with a new head sculpt based on [[Bombshock (G1)]] and colors in [[homage]] to the original Flak toy's Japanese release [[Powerbomb]]. He transforms into a self-propelled semi-Cybertronic missile system. As part of the [[C.O.M.B.A.T. System]], he forms the barrel of the "Gravatronic Rubblemaker Cannon" when combined with his pack-in partner [[Fireline]] (or any other iteration of that mold).

: He was only available as part of a [[Target]] [[exclusive]] ten-pack of Micromasters, which includes the Autobots [[Groundshaker (G1)#Generations|Ground Shaker]], Irontread, [[Overair#Generations|Overair]], [[Ricon#Toys|Ricon]], [[Road Police#Generations|Road-Police]], and [[Wheel Blaze#Generations|Wheel Blaze]], and the Decepticons Fireline, [[Nightflight (G1)#Generations|Nightflight]], and [[Skyhopper#Generations|Slyhopper]].

==Notes==
* The ''[[Transformers: Zone (franchise)|Zone]]'' franchise from which Powerbomb hails typically recast [[Hasbro]]'s Decepticon Micromaster toys as Autobots, sometimes giving them new names in the process; Cratermaker's status as a renamed Decepticon version of the Autobot Powerbomb is perhaps an homage to this practice.
* Stock photos on Target’s website showed Cratermaker as a straightforward [[redeco]] of Flak, lacking the new head sculpt featured on both the back of the box and the final toy.

[[Category:Micromasters]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Siege Decepticons]]

Cratermaker

2019-07-29T19:32:19Z

Spectre:

{{factions|decepticon}}
:''Cratermaker is a [[Decepticon]] [[Micromaster]] from the [[Generation 1 continuity family|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''
{{mainpic}}
'''Cratermaker''' makes craters. Sounds about right.

==Toys==
===''Generations''===
====War for Cybertron: Siege====
*'''Autobots vs. Decepticons''' (Micromaster multi-pack, 2019)
**''ID number'': '''WFC-S62'''

: Cratermaker is a [[retool]] of ''[[War for Cybertron: Siege (toyline)|Siege]]'' [[Flak (G1)#Generations|Flak]], with colors in [[homage]] to the original Flak toy's Japanese release [[Powerbomb]] and a new head sculpt based on [[Bombshock (G1)]]. He transforms into a self-propelled semi-Cybertronic missile system. As part of the [[C.O.M.B.A.T. System]], he forms the barrel of the "Gravatronic Rubblemaker Cannon" when combined with his pack-in partner [[Fireline]] (or any other iteration of that mold).

: He was only available as part of a [[Target]] [[exclusive]] ten-pack of Micromasters, which includes the Autobots [[Groundshaker (G1)#Generations|Ground Shaker]], Irontread, [[Overair#Generations|Overair]], [[Ricon#Toys|Ricon]], [[Road Police#Generations|Road-Police]], and [[Wheel Blaze#Generations|Wheel Blaze]], and the Decepticons Fireline, [[Nightflight (G1)#Generations|Nightflight]], and [[Skyhopper#Generations|Slyhopper]].

==Notes==
* The ''[[Transformers: Zone (franchise)|Zone]]'' franchise from which Powerbomb hails typically recast [[Hasbro]]'s Decepticon Micromaster toys as Autobots, sometimes giving them new names in the process; Cratermaker's status as a renamed Decepticon version of the Autobot Powerbomb is perhaps an homage to this practice.
* Stock photos on Target’s website showed Cratermaker as a straightforward [[redeco]] of Flak, lacking the new head sculpt featured on both the back of the box and the final toy.

[[Category:Micromasters]]
[[Category:War for Cybertron: Siege Decepticons]]

Justin Severson

2016-08-28T06:16:13Z

Spectre: /* Magazine profiles */

{{disambig3|Justin}}

'''Justin Severson''' is a writer, editor, and longtime member of the fandom. He is an occasional contributor to [[Fun Publications]].

==Transformers Collectors' Club writing==
===Magazine profiles===
* [[Outback (G1)|Outback]] ([[Hasbro Transformers Collectors' Club issue 38]])
* [[Ironhide (G1)|Ironhide]] ([[Hasbro Transformers Collectors' Club issue 38]])

===Text stories===
*"[[The Truth We Make]]"
*"[[Deadly Aim]]" Counterpunch dialogue '''punch'''-up

===TFSS 5.0 bios===
*[[Punch (G1)#Combiner Wars|Counterpunch]]
*[[Fractyl#Combiner Wars|Fractyl]] revisions and edits
*[[Scorponok (BW)#Combiner Wars|Scorponok]] revisions and edits
*[[Megatron (G1)/toys#Timelines|Double Pretender Megatron]] (with [[Spacewarp#Timelines|Spacewarp]]) revisions and edits
*[[Toxitron (G1)#Combiner Wars|Toxitron]] revisions and edits
*[[Lifeline (G1)#Timelines|Lifeline]] revisions and edits
*[[Quickslinger (G1)#Timelines|Quickslinger]] revisions and edits
*[[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#DoublePretender|Double Pretender Optimus Prime]] (with [[Hi-Q#Timelines|Hi-Q]]) revisions and edits

{{DEFAULTSORT:Severson, Justin}}
[[Category:Fun Publications]]
[[Category:Writers]]

Justin Severson

2016-08-28T06:14:08Z

Spectre:

{{disambig3|Justin}}

'''Justin Severson''' is a writer, editor, and longtime member of the fandom. He is an occasional contributor to [[Fun Publications]].

==Transformers Collectors' Club writing==
===Magazine profiles===
* [[Outback (G1)|Outback]]
* [[Ironhide (G1)|Ironhide]]

===Text stories===
*"[[The Truth We Make]]"
*"[[Deadly Aim]]" Counterpunch dialogue '''punch'''-up

===TFSS 5.0 bios===
*[[Punch (G1)#Combiner Wars|Counterpunch]]
*[[Fractyl#Combiner Wars|Fractyl]] revisions and edits
*[[Scorponok (BW)#Combiner Wars|Scorponok]] revisions and edits
*[[Megatron (G1)/toys#Timelines|Double Pretender Megatron]] (with [[Spacewarp#Timelines|Spacewarp]]) revisions and edits
*[[Toxitron (G1)#Combiner Wars|Toxitron]] revisions and edits
*[[Lifeline (G1)#Timelines|Lifeline]] revisions and edits
*[[Quickslinger (G1)#Timelines|Quickslinger]] revisions and edits
*[[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#DoublePretender|Double Pretender Optimus Prime]] (with [[Hi-Q#Timelines|Hi-Q]]) revisions and edits

{{DEFAULTSORT:Severson, Justin}}
[[Category:Fun Publications]]
[[Category:Writers]]

Justin Severson

2016-08-28T06:12:13Z

Spectre: /* TFSS 5.0 bios */

{{disambig3|Justin}}

'''Justin Severson''' is writer and editor. A longtime member of the fandom, he is an occasional contributor to [[Fun Publications]].

==Transformers Collectors' Club writing==
===Magazine profiles===
* [[Outback (G1)|Outback]]
* [[Ironhide (G1)|Ironhide]]

===Text stories===
*"[[The Truth We Make]]"
*"[[Deadly Aim]]" Counterpunch dialogue '''punch'''-up

===TFSS 5.0 bios===
*[[Punch (G1)#Combiner Wars|Counterpunch]]
*[[Fractyl#Combiner Wars|Fractyl]] revisions and edits
*[[Scorponok (BW)#Combiner Wars|Scorponok]] revisions and edits
*[[Megatron (G1)/toys#Timelines|Double Pretender Megatron]] (with [[Spacewarp#Timelines|Spacewarp]]) revisions and edits
*[[Toxitron (G1)#Combiner Wars|Toxitron]] revisions and edits
*[[Lifeline (G1)#Timelines|Lifeline]] revisions and edits
*[[Quickslinger (G1)#Timelines|Quickslinger]] revisions and edits
*[[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#DoublePretender|Double Pretender Optimus Prime]] (with [[Hi-Q#Timelines|Hi-Q]]) revisions and edits

{{DEFAULTSORT:Severson, Justin}}
[[Category:Fun Publications]]
[[Category:Writers]]

Justin Severson

2016-08-28T06:10:10Z

Spectre:

{{disambig3|Justin}}

'''Justin Severson''' is writer and editor. A longtime member of the fandom, he is an occasional contributor to [[Fun Publications]].

==Transformers Collectors' Club writing==
===Magazine profiles===
* [[Outback (G1)|Outback]]
* [[Ironhide (G1)|Ironhide]]

===Text stories===
*"[[The Truth We Make]]"
*"[[Deadly Aim]]" Counterpunch dialogue '''punch'''-up

===TFSS 5.0 bios===
*[[Punch (G1)#Combiner Wars|Counterpunch]]
*[[Fractyl#Combiner Wars|Fractyl]] revisions and edits
*[[Scorponok (BW)#Combiner Wars|Scorponok]] revisions and edits
*[[Megatron (G1)/toys#Timelines|Double Pretender Megatron]] (with [[Spacewarp#Timelines|Spacewarp]]) revisions and edits
*[[Toxitron (G1)#Combiner Wars|Toxitron]] revisions and edits
*[[Lifeline (G1)#Timelines|Lifeline]] revisions and edits
*[[Quickslinger (G1)#Timelines|Quickslinger]]) revisions and edits
*[[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#DoublePretender|Double Pretender Optimus Prime]] (with [[Hi-Q#Timelines|Hi-Q]]) revisions and edits

{{DEFAULTSORT:Severson, Justin}}
[[Category:Fun Publications]]
[[Category:Writers]]

Justin Severson

2016-08-28T06:08:54Z

Spectre: /* TFSS 5.0 bios */

{{disambig3|Justin}}

'''Justin Severson''' is writer and editor. A longtime member of the fandom, he is an occasional contributor to [[Fun Publications]].

==Transformers Collectors' Club==
===Magazine profiles===
* [[Outback (G1)|Outback]]
* [[Ironhide (G1)|Ironhide]]

===Text stories===
*"[[The Truth We Make]]"
*"[[Deadly Aim]]" Counterpunch dialogue '''punch'''-up

===TFSS 5.0 bios===
*[[Punch (G1)#Combiner Wars|Counterpunch]]
*[[Fractyl#Combiner Wars|Fractyl]] revisions and edits
*[[Scorponok (BW)#Combiner Wars|Scorponok]] revisions and edits
*[[Megatron (G1)/toys#Timelines|Double Pretender Megatron]] (with [[Spacewarp#Timelines|Spacewarp]]) revisions and edits
*[[Toxitron (G1)#Combiner Wars|Toxitron]] revisions and edits
*[[Lifeline (G1)#Timelines|Lifeline]] revisions and edits
*[[Quickslinger (G1)#Timelines|Quickslinger]]) revisions and edits
*[[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#DoublePretender|Double Pretender Optimus Prime]] (with [[Hi-Q#Timelines|Hi-Q]]) revisions and edits

{{DEFAULTSORT:Severson, Justin}}
[[Category:Fun Publications]]
[[Category:Writers]]

Justin Severson

2016-08-28T06:08:20Z

Spectre:

{{disambig3|Justin}}

'''Justin Severson''' is writer and editor. A longtime member of the fandom, he is an occasional contributor to [[Fun Publications]].

==Transformers Collectors' Club==
===Magazine profiles===
* [[Outback (G1)|Outback]]
* [[Ironhide (G1)|Ironhide]]

===Text stories===
*"[[The Truth We Make]]"
*"[[Deadly Aim]]" Counterpunch dialogue '''punch'''-up

===TFSS 5.0 bios===
*[[Punch (G1)#Combiner Wars|TFSS Counterpunch]]
*[[Fractyl#Combiner Wars|Fractyl]] revisions and edits
*[[Scorponok (BW)#Combiner Wars|Scorponok]] revisions and edits
*[[Megatron (G1)/toys#Timelines|Double Pretender Megatron]] (with *[[Spacewarp#Timelines|Spacewarp]]) revisions and edits
*[[Toxitron (G1)#Combiner Wars|Toxitron]] revisions and edits
*[[Lifeline (G1)#Timelines|Lifeline]] revisions and edits
*[[Quickslinger (G1)#Timelines|Quickslinger]]) revisions and edits
*[[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#DoublePretender|Double Pretender Optimus Prime]] (with [[Hi-Q#Timelines|Hi-Q]]) revisions and edits

{{DEFAULTSORT:Severson, Justin}}
[[Category:Fun Publications]]
[[Category:Writers]]

Justin Severson

2016-08-28T06:07:38Z

Spectre:

{{disambig3|Justin}}

'''Justin Severson''' is writer and editor. A longtime member of the fandom, he is an occasional contributor to [[Fun Publications]].

==Transformers Collectors' Club==
===Magazine profiles===
* [[Outback (G1)|Outback]]
* [[Ironhide (G1)|Ironhide]]

===Text stories===
*"[[The Truth We Make]]"
*"[[Deadly Aim]]" Counterpunch dialogue "punch"-up

===TFSS 5.0 bios===
*[[Punch (G1)#Combiner Wars|TFSS Counterpunch]]
*[[Fractyl#Combiner Wars|Fractyl]] revisions and edits
*[[Scorponok (BW)#Combiner Wars|Scorponok]]) revisions and edits
*[[Megatron (G1)/toys#Timelines|Double Pretender Megatron]] (with *[[Spacewarp#Timelines|Spacewarp]]) revisions and edits
*[[Toxitron (G1)#Combiner Wars|Toxitron]] revisions and edits
*[[Lifeline (G1)#Timelines|Lifeline]] revisions and edits
*[[Quickslinger (G1)#Timelines|Quickslinger]]) revisions and edits
*[[Optimus Prime (G1)/toys#DoublePretender|Double Pretender Optimus Prime]] (with [[Hi-Q#Timelines|Hi-Q]]) revisions and edits

{{DEFAULTSORT:Severson, Justin}}
[[Category:Fun Publications]]
[[Category:Writers]]

Talk:Cryotek (RID)

2015-12-24T21:58:11Z

Spectre: /* Splitting vote */

At some point, I need to rewrite this to adhere to the style guide. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 03:50, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes you do. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 03:52, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Hey, you go fix Wideload the way he should be. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 03:53, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

===Cryotek's actual plan===

All right. What was it? Okay, so we know from 3H that it would ultimately end up with the resurrection of Unicron blah blah blah, but... aside from that. He wants to send the Dinobots, the Mutants, and the Wreckers on fools errands. But the real Vector Sigma breaks through the Oracle and gives the Wreckers a REAL mission -- protecting the Divine Light. But... apparently that was Cryotek's true purpose all along? How does that work? Tengu, where are you? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 05:42, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

:Cryotek's purpose was to claim the divine light, lead the Quintessons to Cybertron (whose reformation int he last episode of BM they were unaware of- they lsot contact witht he planet whwn the Oracle went offline) and betray thrm, using the Divine Light's ability to act as a 'fuse' through which to transfer Primus's power either directly into himself, or somehow to Unicron.

:This fails for some reason,a nd the result ins INSTEAD that Primus himself comes online, as seen in TFU, instead of having to work through Vector Sigma. They got the fuse back the Quints pulled when they first invaded the nascent Cybertron, and so Primus can function again.

::That doesn't answer my question. If it was Cryotek's original purpose to claim the divine light, then why did Primus have to come online to *give the Wreckers different directions than otherwise intended*? The implication is that everyone was to be sent off-world into fools errands, but Vector Sigma broke through the Oracle to give the Wreckers their *real* mission, not the fake one. And yet, this was apparently Cryotek's plan from the beginnings, despite it all? It's a plot hole. Unless, I guess, Cryotek set up the whole "Primus broke through and gave us a real mission" thing, and it was his voice that was pretending to be Vector Sigma breaking through in the first place, putting on this charade for the benefit of the Wreckers. But that seems a little absurd. Why bother? Just give them their orders like the others. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:32, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

: His plan was '''A BLOOH BLAH BALLLAHA BLOOOOOOOOOO!!!''' [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 03:12, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I still don't 'see' the conenction between Cryotek and Unicron, bt it's clearly there- Wreckers even list shim as a minion of Unicron, so who knows? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 08:27, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Why's he under RID? [[User:X-BoB58|X-BoB58]] 10:22, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

His toy was released as a RiD toy. However given that all his fiction is G1/BW/BM/TFU related it does seem odd. I just noticed it myself. It really isn't "the continuity he's most associated with" which I thought was the standard. I haven't looked do we have an entry for RiD Optimus Primal, or was his foray as a spirit guide for that Prime covered under BW? [[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 10:29, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

: Latter-day RiD segued into Universe (Fire Convoy preparing the Spychanger for a great comign threat, the foundign of the Interdimensional whosiswhatsis...)
: I think can, maybe, say that BM Primalw as sent to RiD Prime to inform him of these coming threats we're just told he's preparing for?
: (That's purely metatextual of course, like toy-continuity vs. show continuity, sicne I think RiD Prime started preparign after being kidnapped by Unicron during TFU #2 and subsequently beign returned home.)
: If anything, this would be someting Primal did during his post-death pre-reincarnate state. He doesnt' mention it, but it doesnt' rule it out. (And even if it didnt' 'happen' for the Comic, that's where this piece of toy-continuity is suppsoed to fit.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 11:50, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

: We had a big discussion in the "series tags" a couple days back, but people seem to keep ignoring it, so it ended up being largely me and Steve-o. "Toy-series of origin" is the way of tagging that simply makes the most SENSE and is EASIEST. You "common association" is far too open to interpretation. Of course, I'm still waiting to see if the UT and BW and J-G1 characters should be broken up into sub-series for consistancy's sake, which, despite me liking how we emphasise the use of (UT), I think we SHOULD. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:51, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

: That seems awfully toy-specific for a CHARACTER DRIVEN WIKI! If they wanted toys they would go to TFU.info. [[User:X-BoB58|X-BoB58]] 19:26, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

:: Characters... WHO ARE BASED ON TOYS. Who are created TO SELL TOYS. Toys are the core of the damn franchise. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:28, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
::And it's not like the information here is strictly the stuff you can already find on tfu.info....--[[User:G.B. Blackrock|G.B. Blackrock]] 20:35, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

===Spark drivers===
In response to "Who the fuck said that," the answer is "[[Hasbro|HASBRO]]." --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 07:44, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

==Decepticon symbol==
There's a Decepticon symbol on Crytotek's left shoulder in Theft of the Golden Disk. Is he supposed to be a former Decepticon? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 20:09, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

== Toy first or character first? ==

If this is the wrong place to ask this, then I apologize. But I must at least ask. Did Cryotek originate as a redecoed figure of the TM2 Megatron first, or was he first conceived as a character in TF fiction?
From what I can gather, his toy came out in late 2001 as a Target exclusive in the RiD toyline, and his first fictional appearance was in The Wreckers issue 2: Betrayal at BotCon 2002.

''However'', I wholeheartedly remember having once read a FAQ question regarding when/if Cryotek would be getting a toy release at all and if it would be a BotCon exclusive or not. The answer given said that it would be a Target exclusive in the RiD toyline, which did come to pass. Though, the way the question was asked implied that the nature of his character was already made known ahead of his toy's release date, which has me wondering if his persona was conceived ''and'' made known prior to the release of his toy.

If I could ''find'' this old question it would greatly help me in trying to figure this out. I've been searching on the WayBack Machine's archives of BotCon.com and OTFCC.com, but have found nothing yet. Any assistance to figuring this out would be greatly appreciated. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 23:16, 11 March 2011 (EST)
: If you read the Notes section to this page, you would know exactly all about how we knew about him prior to his release date. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:00, 12 March 2011 (EST)

==RID vs G1==
Does there need to be a RID Cryotek specifically separate from G1? There does, right? And that would mean that this guy would need to move somewhere else, probably Cryotek (G1). Someone double check this before I start doing stuff, I often seem to be on the wrong side of these universe naming and moves. --[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 20:30, 22 September 2015 (EDT)
:I believe Cryotek was just one of a bunch of toys that were meant to be released earlier, but were pushed back into the RID toyline for reasons. The big Beast Machines Optimal Primal toy was released in this line too, but I'm pretty sure we're not going to pretend that he's a separate character either. --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron|talk]]) 20:34, 22 September 2015 (EDT)
::Right, I was only asking because [[Ask Vector Prime]] today had the Robots in Disguise [[Cybertron Elite Guard|Elite Guard]] encountering Cryotek. I'm fine with just putting that info here. --[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 20:36, 22 September 2015 (EDT)
:::Ah, nertz. I hadn't gotten around to check AVP today. --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron|talk]]) 20:41, 22 September 2015 (EDT)
::::I guess I'm just not getting something. There needs to be two ships named Longbow, one for Cybertron and one for RID, but we're ok with having just one Cryotek across G1 & RID? If there's a logic here I'm not seeing it. --[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 00:12, 23 September 2015 (EDT)
:::::I thought you were referring to the fact that Cryotek was a RID toy as basis for splitting him off. With the info from AVP, I have no arguments against making a separate page for RID Cryotek. --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron|talk]]) 00:17, 23 September 2015 (EDT)
::::::I'm all for splitting a page for RID Cryotek. However, I think we should wait to see if AVP clarifies anything on RID Cryotek. The post almost sounds to me like it's Primax 797.18 Epsilon Cryotek who has escaped the formless dimension into Viron 903.0 Beta. After all, it's big hero JG1 Optimus Primal/Convoy who's pursuing him. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 00:29, 23 September 2015 (EDT)
:::::::Sounds reasonable, considering that AVP doesn't seem like it'll be around for much longer. --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] ([[User talk:Ascendron|talk]]) 00:31, 23 September 2015 (EDT)
::::::::Waiting to see if we learn more makes a ton of sense to me. --[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 09:05, 23 September 2015 (EDT)

::::::::In any case, even if there isn't a page split, can we consider making an exception to the disambiguate-by-franchise-rather-than-continuity-family rule? It works in most case, but I think here it only serves to confuse things; maybe moving if to Cryotek (BW) or Cryotek (G1) would be better? --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 02:49, 23 September 2015 (EDT)
:::::::::I don't think it's especially confusing, and I'd really rather not open up those floodgates. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 04:09, 23 September 2015 (EDT)
::::::::::Well, I found it particularly confusing when I first found the wiki, and I'm not sure what floodgates it would open - as far as I know, the only comparable situation (i.e. characters from one continuity family being first released as part of another family's franchise) would be a few DOTM Mini-Cons, etc? I feel like it's similar to how Animated Timelines characters would, IIRC, be disambiguated to "Animated" rather than "Timelines" back when the wiki still used (Timelines). Sorry, I'm rambling - what I'm trying to say is that it ''did'' confuse me as a casual fan, and given the recent increased focus on being accessible to casual fans... --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 05:12, 23 September 2015 (EDT)
:::::::::::It's just a case of cracks starting to appear in our organization scheme. When we started this, at the end of the Unicron Trilogy era, characters across different universe were pretty distinct. There were very few "lore" characters, and we'd just lived through four years of repeated "nameslaps" where Ironhide could be a female Mini-Con and a punk rookie Autobot. Post-movie, as characters become more consistent across the spectrum of Transformers stories, and many names now hold ''meaning'', some of these delineations grow to feel quite pointless. Knock Out, for instance, really is exactly the same character across the Prime cartoon and IDW comics, he just calls a different planet home. I think it's quite clear that AVP has been poking that particular bear of late, with it's Micromaster/Mini-Con/Cyberdroid analogues, or that answer from just the other day about an Aurex Hi-Q and Arcana. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] ([[User talk:Chris McFeely|talk]]) 06:11, 23 September 2015 (EDT)
::::::::::::oh hey remember when we came to a consensus to move this page OH WAIT --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] ([[User talk:ItsWalky|talk]]) 18:57, 1 October 2015 (EDT)
::::::::::::::Revert please. Also, I wouldn't say "cracks just appeared" since this was all done on purpose by human agency to write new facts directly for the wiki but whatever we've been over that. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 21:39, 1 October 2015 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::apparently there have been too many intermediate edits and I CAN'T just revert it. Or maybe there's some trick I'm forgetting. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] ([[User talk:Thylacine 2000|talk]]) 22:01, 1 October 2015 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::::Ok, consensus is RID and G1 Cryotek are close enough to live on the same page? Works for me. --[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 00:44, 2 October 2015 (EDT)

[http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Cryotek_%28G1%29 Discussion from Cryotek (G1)]

I'm sorry, I'm going to be a little anal about my understanding of this wiki. Under the current policy, I can't wrap my head around combining characters from RID and Beast Machines onto one page. The Cryotek from Vector Prime's story is a RID character. (The story gives no indication otherwise.) If that policy ever changes, that's fine. But this isolated incident of Cryoteks from two continuity families on one page is weird. I understand the ideas of cross-franchise characters being very similar and the desire to keep them together, but that requires a significant reorganization of the wiki en masse. This helter skelter fashion of changing the status quo is not a great idea. --[[User:Crockalley|Crockalley]] ([[User talk:Crockalley|talk]]) 00:55, 3 October 2015 (EDT)
:Yeah, I'm going to open this can of worms again. [http://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/101932-tfwikinet-thread-30/?p=3064808 As I pointed out on the Allspark], there's not really any good reason to have this page merged that wouldn't require a major reexamination of the wiki's rules, other than "this is stupid and I don't want to acknowledge it". I'd also like to point out that as of the Optimus Primal answer Viron Cryotek doesn't have that much in common with Primax Cryotek (criminal mastermind vs genocidal scientist), and that the previous consensus seemed to be less "this shouldn't have been split/moved" and more "this shouldn't have been split/moved without discussion". So... can we discuss this some more? --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 13:42, 29 October 2015 (EDT)
::I suppose I could support this idea. But I point out that Primax Cryotek was also a scientist just like Viron Cryotek. And for all intents and purposes they share their only toys, do they not? [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 14:22, 29 October 2015 (EDT)
:::True, I suppose; I more meant that Viron Cryotek doesn't have the criminal/gangster element central to most portrayals of Cryotek. I guess the idea behind writing Viron Cryotek and RID Jhiaxus into Ask Vector Prime was to, essentially, retroactively make those toys' use as G1 characters into "repurposings"? Not to deliberately fuck with the wiki's classification system, as some have suggested. So yeah, they share toys. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 15:00, 29 October 2015 (EDT)
::::Well yeah, I think the main intent was to give portrayals that matched the toys' actual packaging. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 16:40, 29 October 2015 (EDT)

I've been sandboxing something that this might be a good test case for. A formal write-up of the idea of a character that exists in multiple continuity-families at the same time. [[User:Giggidy/Sandbox/Multi-Family Character]]. Perhaps Cryotek would be a good test case to start rolling it out? --[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 17:40, 29 October 2015 (EDT)
:I just honestly think that based on what information on Viron Cryotek we have, he's not all that similar to Primax Cryotek... well, okay, he's about as similar as cartoon and comic Shockwave, but they're kind of extremes anyway. I don't think this is the best point for an "exception" to be made. I guess I could tolerate it, but I think a better starting point would be [[Knock Out (G1)]] and [[Knock Out (Prime)]], who a) have major appearances in both clusters, and b) are much closer to being the same character archetype. Others seem to disagree, but I feel that the Cryoteks don't share much more than the name and the toy. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 17:45, 29 October 2015 (EDT)
Is there any more momentum to split this page? If not, I'm removing the move tag within the next 48 hours. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 11:57, 21 December 2015 (EST)

I'll lay out the facts as I see them:
* Viron Cryotek is differently-characterised to Primax Cryotek and exists in a different continuity family; he looks the same, but see [[Bulkhead (G1)]]. In most cases, this would be enough for each character to get their own page.
* Nobody objected to [[Jhiaxus (RID)]] being given a page, which suggests that the objection is less about the characters being the same and more about the fact that the page, if split, would have to be renamed.
* There ''hasn't actually been any reason given'' to have the pages merged and the rules bent, other than "this is stupid, and it's an attack on our classification system.
* Which, as I said, I don't think it is - it's making the RID Cryotek toy into an RID character. Much like, say, DOTM Bulkhead or Prime Evac, who are Prime Bulkhead and Ride Evac made into "their own characters" because they were in the DOTM and Prime lines.
* If split, then, the pages would either go under "Cryotek (RID)" and "Cryotek (AVP)" (treating the AVP guy as a new character), or "Cryotek (Universe)" and "Cryotek (RID)" (treating the AVP guy as the "real" identity of the toy and the Primax character as a "repurpose"). I'd vote for the latter, because the former seems ''really'' confusing.
If anyone could actually give a ''reason'' to not split, I'd probably be open to the idea, but as-is it seems like it's only merged because people don't want the existing page to be moved. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 13:08, 21 December 2015 (EST)
:I'm of the opinion that most RID dudes should just be folded into their G1 counterparts (or vice versa, whatever), because the distinction between Viron and Primax is pointless, but as long as we're keeping stuff like Jhiaxus (RID) or Sky-Byte (G2), this should be split into Cryotek (RID) with Cryotek (BM) as the repurpose. Which is what would've happened had the comics came about during the wiki's life instead of prior. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 13:36, 21 December 2015 (EST)
:If we are being objective, RipTide is right, as the rules stand now, this needs a split, if we want to debate the nature of the rules and how they are affected by the Families that is something we will have to bring up later (I think the central thesis is whether we split based on fiction [i.e. This is a guy from Animated vs a guy from Prime] or based on character [i.e. this guy is a doctor , this guy is a girl and a minicon]) I ''personally'' was under the assumption of the former(partially because it would lead to frankly arbitrary declarations of how close to each other portrayals are, and arbitray declarations are something a bastion of information like us should not do [this is also why I was against Battlemasters characters being ''best fit'' into families] but it seems to me that those splits until recently lined up and now it's becoming less murky as charcaters are becoming closer and closer, there have been talks on why IDW and Prime Knockout are separate, and Hi-Q being on page, which frankly I found absurd, but that's only because of the aforementioned assumption that we split based on fiction, not on how "similar" characters are to each other.

TLDR: Until we settle the issue of whether we merge characters based on being similar or being in the same family; something that tended to be one in the same until now, we have to go by the current rules, and as I understand them we have a G1 Cryotek under Crytek(RID) and an RID Cryotek under (AVP).

Otherwise we continue a habit of cherry picking and dancing around our policies when it suits us, instead of actually dressing our polices.

And what good is a system if we can just go...nah I dont like this, when it doesn't fit what we want? Under our rules IDW is G1,(originally because it was "Under the g1 franchise" as the Continuity Family page says and then later when it was named Primax almost certainly because of this wiki saying it was g1) I of course feel that is total bullshit, but that is what it is, and me and others who feel that way cant just make it not G1 by saying it's silly and stupid on the talk page. In any case this is going to keep happening and this pothole method isn't holding up.

Perhaps a Community Vote(even though I am pretty sure it's just an open and shut case where we personally feel the policy [[User:Lush City|Lush City]] ([[User talk:Lush City|talk]]) 22:51, 21 December 2015 (EST)
:If a split were to happen, I can certainly say for sure that if any Primax Cryotek page were to be created separately from Viron Cryotek, said Primax page would definitely have a "(Universe)" disambiguation tag since the guy debuted in Universe fiction. --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] ([[User talk:Sabrblade|talk]]) 00:17, 22 December 2015 (EST)

== Splitting vote ==

Seems like now's as good a time as any to put it to the question. Obviously, I vote to split. --[[User:Riptide|Riptide]] ([[User talk:Riptide|talk]]) 18:24, 23 December 2015 (EST)
:I agree. [[User:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47]] ([[User talk:S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent 47|talk]]) 18:31, 23 December 2015 (EST)

*I vote no split. --[[User:Giggidy|Giggidy]] ([[User talk:Giggidy|talk]]) 18:37, 23 December 2015 (EST)

*Split. -[[User:Foffy the Sheep|Foffy the Sheep]] ([[User talk:Foffy the Sheep|talk]]) 18:44, 23 December 2015 (EST)

*Split, please. --[[User:Crossblades|Crossblades]] ([[User talk:Crossblades|talk]]) 19:13, 23 December 2015 (EST)

*Split if we're not gonna merge the other RID characters. [[User:Saix|Saix]] ([[User talk:Saix|talk]]) 15:50, 24 December 2015 (EST)

* No split. --[[User:Spectre|Spectre]] ([[User talk:Spectre|talk]]) 16:58, 24 December 2015 (EST)

Mudflap (Movie)

2008-05-12T19:16:24Z

Spectre: The sequence of events regarding Landslide->Sawtooth->Mudflap was a little misleading.

:''Mudflap is an [[Decepticon]] from the [[Movie (franchise)|live-action movie]] [[continuity family]].''

[[Image:Movie_Mudflap_toy.jpg|thumb|right|250px|]]

'''Mudflap''' is a Decepticon. He's yellow!

==Toys==
===Transformers (2007)===
*'''Mudflap''' (Voyager Class, 2008)
**''Accessories'': Missile, Cyber Planet Key

[[Image:Movie_Mudflap_vehicle.jpg|thumb|left|150px|]]

: A Toys "R" Us [[exclusive]] redeco of ''[[Cybertron (franchise)|Cybertron]]'' [[Mudflap (Cybertron)|Mudflap]], Mudflap transforms into a yellow crane truck. The toy features two [[Cyber Key]] [[gimmick]]s, but unfortunately, they both suffer from design flaws. Inserting his key into the side of his cab flips out a firing [[missile]] launcher, which works fine in truck mode; in robot mode, however, it is slung under his right arm, and the spring-loaded hinge that flips it out is not strong enough to hold it up, meaning that it dangles loosely underneath his forearm. His second gimmick is his ridiculously colossal saw-blade—first, his crane arm is manually extended, opening up the Cyber Key slot in its side, and inserting the key then flips out the translucent blade. When fully extended, the blade and crane are about three times the height of his body. Sadly, the blade is molded from soft, flexible plastic, and if left undeployed for too long, will warp due to tension from the spring holding it down.

{{-}}
==Trivia==
* According to [[Hasbro]] designer [[Joe Kyde]]'s [http://www.hasbro.com/transformers/default.cfm?page=News/Item&newsid=4EC7EA7D-D56F-E112-46AC70D02754072E design notes on Hasbro's Transformers website], Mudflap was originally going to use the unreleased [[Landslide (Decepticon)|Landslide]] deco, with the name "Sawtooth". It was decided that Landslide's deco wasn't realistic enough for the Movie toyline, so a new deco based on [[Micromaster]] [[Erector]] (giggle) was chosen. The name Sawtooth was unavailable, so he got stuck being Mudflap.

[[Category: Decepticons]]
[[Category: Movie characters]]
[[Category: Toy-only characters]]
[[Category: Toys "R" Us exclusives]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Wingblade

2008-05-06T00:00:39Z

Spectre:

{{cleanup}}

:''Wingblade is an Autobot in the [[Transformers (2007)|live-action movie]] [[continuity family]].''

'''Wingblade''' is big, flies and carries a lot of weapons.

==Toys==
*'''Wingblade''' (Toys'r'us exclusive Ultra Class, 2008)
:Wingblade is a redeco of Cybertron [[Wing Saber]] with gray, green and yellow.

==Trivia==
* According to [[Joe Kyde]]'s designer notes at the Hasbro website, Wingblade's colors were intended to be the color-wheel opposites of his casemate, [[Jetstorm (Movie)|Jetstorm]], though it was acknowledged this accidentally makes him a [[Springer]] homage.

* Also according to Joe Kyde, Wingblade's Autobot symbol is a special kind of chrome that is apparently hard to obtain.

[[Category: Autobots]]
[[Category: Movie characters]]
[[Category: Toy-only characters]]
[[Category: Toys "R" Us exclusives]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Transformers: Universe (2008 franchise)

2008-05-02T06:00:41Z

Spectre: Kyde informed me at the con that they don't have Hot Spot anymore. This is his new name.

{{disambig3|Universe}}

[[Image:Universe2008Logo.jpg|center|300px]]

The 2008 '''''Universe''''' is the second ''Transformers'' [[franchise]] to use the name. Like [[Universe (franchise)|the previous franchise]], this line is intended to be something of a catch-all for toys that don't fit in the ''[[Transformers Animated]]'' line, currently the brand's flagship franchise.

Hasbro first announced the line at [[BotCon 2007]], stating that it would not have an overall story arc. The line's primary (but not ''only'') focus will be on "realistic" vehicles, filling a gap left by the ending of the [[Movie (franchise)|live-action movie]] line. The line's first offerings in 2008 will be a set of [[Generation 1]]- and ''[[Beast Wars]]''-inspired [[Robot Heroes]], and a continuation of the [[Classics]] toyline, now dubbed the Classic Series, in Deluxe and Ultra price points, with [[Legends of Cybertron|Legends]] and Voyager classes to follow.

In January 2008, Hasbro launched a web page for the new ''Universe'' line, featuring a preview of the first wave of new Classics and a CGI reimagining of the battle between [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] and [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] from the [[The Transformers: The Movie|original animated Transformers movie]]. The tagline for the video, in keeping with the toyline's theme, was "They were always real to me."

Many of the figures in the Ultra price point will feature electronic light and sound. Each figure will come with the required batteries.
==Toyline==
====Legends====
*[[Onslaught]]
*[[Red Alert (G1)|Red Alert]]
*[[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]]
*[[Jazz (G1)|Autobot Jazz]]
*[[Hound|Autobot Hound]]
*[[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]]
*[[Brawn (G1)|Autobot Brawn]]
*[[Beachcomber (G1)|Beachcomber]]

====Deluxe====
*[[Prowl (G1)|Prowl]]
*[[Octane|Tankor]] (an update of Octane, not named so due to [[Trademark|trademark issues]])
*[[Sunstreaker]]
*[[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]]
*[[Sideswipe (G1)|Sideswipe]]
*[[Acid Storm]]
*[[Cheetor]]
*[[Ironhide]]
*[[Silverstreak]]
*[[Hound|Autobot Hound]] with [[Ravage]]
*[[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]] with [[Nightstick (Decepticon)|Nightstick]]
*[[Hot Shot (Armada)|Hot Shot]] with [[Jolt]]

====Voyager====
*[[Blaster|Autobot Blaster]] with [[Blockrock|Blockrock Mini-Con]]!
*[[Heavy Load (Universe)|Decepticon Heavy Load]] with [[Drillbit|Drillbit Mini-Con]]!
*[[Blades|Autobot Blades]]
*[[Dropshot (Universe)|Decepticon Dropshot]]

====Ultra====
*[[Onslaught]]
*[[Powerglide]]
*[[Silverbolt (G1)|Silverbolt]]
*[[Storm Cloud (G1)|Storm Cloud]]

====25th Anniversary Pack====
* [[Optimus Prime (G1)|25th Anniversary Optimus Prime Pack]]

===Store exclusives===
====Target-exclusive Legends multipacks====
* Aerial Rivals
**[[Air Raid]]
**[[Blades|Autobot Blades]]
**[[Ramjet (G1)|Ramjet]]
**[[Skydive (G1)|Skydive]]
**[[Thrust (G1)|Thrust]]

* Leadership Team
**[[Hot Spot (G1)|Hot Zone]]
**[[Hun-Gurrr]]
**[[Razorclaw (G1)|Razorclaw]]
**[[Scattershot]]
**[[Silverbolt (G1)|Silverbolt]]

====Target-exclusive Universe Voyager Deluxe comic 2-packs====
* [[Dirge (G1)|Dirge]] Vs. [[Roadbuster|Autobot Roadbuster]]
* [[Springer]] Vs. [[Ratbat]]

==External links==

[http://www.hasbro.com/transformers/universe/ Hasbro's Transformers Universe front page]

[[Category: Franchises]]
[[Category:Universe (2008)| ]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Heavy Load (Universe)

2008-05-02T05:53:12Z

Spectre:

==Mixmaster? Is that you?==
[http://toyfair08.asmzine.com/gallery/hasbro/transformers-universe/slides/IMG_9053.html Heavy Load's bio]
Decepticon chemist gone slowly mad by his own projects, used to be sorta different? Sounds like this dude's Mixmaster to me. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:24, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
:I had the same thought, but I'm not sure what to do with it. Are we talking about putting his info on Mixmaster's page the way that Tankor is on Octane's? With the latter, we have a lot more confirmation - right up to the Club mag explicitly saying he's the same guy. But Heavy Load may as well have been G1 Quickmix, for all we know. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 01:32, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
::Eh, Quickmix wasn't always a Decepticon chemist. "Cement mixer Decepticon chemist who's not quite all there" has always been Mixmaster's thing. And he's missing from Classics Devastator, an absence called out in the fiction. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:21, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
:::"Optimizing fuel mixtures to increase the energy efficiency of all mechanoid life" sounds suspiciously non-Decepticonny to me. I know that same sentence describes him as "Decepticon Heavy Load," but that could just be an awkward reference to his ''present'' status (plus it's his trademarked name, so...) Now, I totally hear you with the missing-Constructicon thing - it was likewise the initial thought I had. Hell, I'd be tickled pink if the Club fiction DID give him that backstory. But until they do, I'd say all bets are off. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 02:58, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

==Move to "Heavy Load (Classics)"?==
I just brought this up over on [[Talk:Universe (franchise)]], but this is a good, concrete example. Since the ''Universe'' Classics guys have a "Classic Series" label on their bios, I think that's good enough reason to identify them as primarily ''Classics'' characters, not ''Universe (2008)''. It's more informative. Not only is the term "Universe" laden with a sprawling, vague history, but the 2008 line is ALREADY split between ''Classics'' and ''Robot Heroes.'' - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 02:00, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
:I really disagree. "Classics Series" is a subline, if anything, of ''Universe''. It's like moving [[Scavenger (BW)]] to [[Scavenger (Transmetals)]]. The continuity note can be made to be more specific ("the Classics portion of Universe") , but the article stays. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 02:11, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
::That's not unheard of. We have the likes of [[Long Haul (Micromaster)]], after all. The reasoning behind that was different, yes, but I think this new situation also calls for an exception. "Universe" as a franchise is so diffuse and definition-less, I don't think we should give it the weight of creating splits in how we label the other franchises it subsumes. There is no fictional or conceptual break between these new toys called "Classics" and the old ones (likewise with ''Robot Heroes,'' for that matter). Making the ''Universe'' jump our primary label does a disservice to readers who should be getting the most ''relevant'' information, not the most pedantic. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 02:44, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
:::I think this should be moved to [[Heavy Load (Classic Series)]], as I feel we should keep the old Universe and the new Universe separate at all times, as they are two completely different things. The old Universe had a storyline to go with it, the new is just a catch-all name. The Universe parenthetical should be applied only to characters from the original, as they would be considered part of that storyline. More importantly, I don't think Heavy Load belongs in the "Universe characters" category as, again, that should be for characters who were part of the old Universe storyline. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 06:54, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

::::I'm with Kil, at least insofar that I strongly feel that the parenthetical '''disambigs''' should not, themselves, be '''ambiguous'''. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 08:14, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Anyone else want to weigh in? - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 18:44, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
:You're putting too much stock into the name. The function of the parenthetical is to ''disambiguate'', not specify exactly which continuity the guy's from. That's what ''reading'' the article is for. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 18:58, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
::Right. It says "Universe" on his card, and the parenthetical is not about what continuity he's from. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:03, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
:::I disagree with using "Classics" in any form here, but do feel that "Universe" itself is a bit confusing, since the two Universe lines are fairly distinct. Why not (Universe 2008) like the category he's under? --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:05, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
::::Reluctantly I must agree with Walky. The parenthetical disambig's purpose is ''not'' to identify the continuity. It is to disambig- to make it so that this article can only refer to one character. Since there was no 'Heavy Load' int he 2004 Universe line, it does that already.
::::The indented italicized ''continuity identifier'' at the top of the page is supposed to identify the continuity. That is it's job.
::::95% of the time the two will be identical. But they don't have to be. And in this case when the ''continuity'' spans multiple franchises, it ''shouldn't''.
::::(Note: the continuity identifier is currenly screwed up, saying it's the 'classics part of the Universe franchise.' I'm fixing.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:15, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::I'm not talking about continuity. I am, however, talking about two distinct franchises that share a name. I think "Universe" should stay, since that's the franchise name, but I ''also'' think it needs something else {{m-}}like "2008"{{m-}} to up-front at-a-glance specify ''which'' of the two Universe franchises he's in. Remember, this will also show up in Category directories outside of "Universe 2008", like "Decepticons". --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:32, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

::This is NOT about continuities. This is the [[Classics (2006)|existing Classics FRANCHISE]] versus the [[Universe (2008)|new Universe franchise]]. The Classics franchise had been loosely defined by package design and various sources calling toys "Classics." Heavy Load's package says "Classic Series," which to my mind makes him part of the Classics ''franchise.'' Yes, he's ALSO part of the Universe (2008) franchise, and that's the bigger label on the box. If our hard-and-fast rule is to always default to the most prominent label, then so be it. But I hold that "Universe" has become nearly meaningless, and it serves the Wiki better to continue using the Classics franchise identifier where it applies. If most folks still disagree, then fair enough. I just don't want us getting derailed by a strawman. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 21:12, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
:::The main point is still that it's only for disambiguation. You're getting worked up over something we only do because [[Heavy Load (Cybertron)]] and [[Heavy Load (RID)]] can't occupy the same space. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 00:14, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
::::And yet it becomes part of the TITLE, which is the biggest, most visually important part of the page. Also, it spills over into how we ought to be labeling the Toys section for all these guys. It may not matter to you, but it matters to ''me'' that we make the best choice. If everybody else thinks the best choice is different, then so be it. But if you really think the question doesn't matter, then why participate in the discussion? - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 00:33, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::Because the (unwritten) policy is using the line the toy is released in for the parenthetical (i.e. [[Cryotek]] used to be at [[Cryotek (RID)]]). There shouldn't even an argument about the toy section's name. The line's name is ''Universe''. That's all there is to it. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 01:14, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::But there are ''two lines called "Universe"''. This presents ''confusion''. I say we move the page to "Heavy Load (Universe 2008)". We disambig pages with "(Movie)", and yet "Movie" ''is not what the line is called'', is it? Or "G1", for that matter? --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 04:12, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::You're worried you may confuse him with the Heavy Load from the other Universe line? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:40, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Disambigs are not descriptive. That's why they're non-mandatory. They're apprended to article names only so that the articles are kept ''seperate''.
:::::::The continuity note- the '''very first line of the article''' will say he's from Classics continuity, not the 2004 TFU. -06:14, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::::Heavy Load is a "Universe" toy, and also a "Classic Series" toy, so in the interest of maintaining the distinction between the old and new Universe lines at all times, I think his paranthetical should be "Classic Series." It just seems obvious to me. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 12:27, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Universe isn't really a part of any continuity family...toys like the new legends, and the majority of the product so far, look to be listed as "Classic Series". The Prime reissue is labeled as "G1 Series". Similarly, I'm sure Hot Shot will be "Armada Series" despite being in Universe packaging. I submit then that characters like Heavy Load and Acid Storm belong to the Classics portion of the G1 continuity family. --[[User:Spectre|Spectre]] 05:53, 2 May 2008 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Acid Storm (G1)

2008-05-01T03:13:46Z

Spectre: /* Fiction */

Interesting reference for a Seeker redeco.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 20:57, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
:And the deco furthers the reference because one of the Rainmakers was about that shade of green. It's a more ''elaborate'' color scheme, because the Rainmakers were boring as hell (go lazy animators!).--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 21:34, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
::So it's the Green Rainmaker that's supposed to be Acid Storm? Crap. That means my friend Lady Tecuma and I are going to have to change the name of one of our Rainmakers in our fan fiction. We named the green one "Stormbringer" in honour of the comic series, which if you ask me is a hell of a lot more creative than "Acid Storm". Anyway, you can read about them here [http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4097552/7/System_of_a_Down], if you like.--[[User:Nightshade83|Nightshade83]] 17:29, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
:::We've yet to see a packaging bio, so it can't be certain ''who'' he's supposed to be. The coincidences are pretty big, though.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:51, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
::::If we've yet to see a packaging bio, how do we even know he's a he? Maybe Hasbro has released the first canon female Seeker? That would be awesome! --[[User:Nightshade83|Nightshade83]] 18:05, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

==Camo jets==
To help settle the question of whether Acid Storm's camo is a reference to anything, I've found pics of the <strike>three</strike> four camo-jet TFs I know about:

[http://www.tf-1.com/articles/other/g2ramjet/g2rjet1.jpg Unproduced G2 Ramjet]

[http://www.seibertron.com/images/news/gfx/1188406662_303.jpg Unproduced G2 somebody]

[http://www.tfu.info/1997/Decepticon/Thundercracker/vehiclemode.jpg MW Thundercracker]

'''Edit:''' [http://seibertron.com/images/toys/files/33/wingstun013.jpg Wing Stun]

And here's [http://seibertron.com/images/events/99/universe050.jpg Acid Storm.]

If I had to say who's ''closest''... I'd go with probably <strike>MW Thundercracker</strike> Wing Stun. But that's still <strike>quite the</strike> a bit of a stretch. Certainly for the purposes of the article, I don't think we should identify the deco as a reference to any one of them.

- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 03:53, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
:You forgot [[Wing Stun]]. But I agree, it looks like a brand new scheme not inspired by any previous jet. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 04:06, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
::Noted, thanks. And I'm starting to rethink the idea that we shouldn't mention past camo-jets; it might be a good idea to bring up ALL the predecessors just to disabuse anyone of the notion that there is a specific homage involved. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 17:39, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

== Fiction ==

Should this be treated the same way Sunstorm was? It's my understanding that he's fully intended to be the green rainmaker, so that episode detail should go on this page, yes? --[[User:Spectre|Spectre]] 03:13, 1 May 2008 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Acid Storm (G1)

2008-05-01T03:13:33Z

Spectre: /* Fiction */ new section

Interesting reference for a Seeker redeco.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 20:57, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
:And the deco furthers the reference because one of the Rainmakers was about that shade of green. It's a more ''elaborate'' color scheme, because the Rainmakers were boring as hell (go lazy animators!).--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 21:34, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
::So it's the Green Rainmaker that's supposed to be Acid Storm? Crap. That means my friend Lady Tecuma and I are going to have to change the name of one of our Rainmakers in our fan fiction. We named the green one "Stormbringer" in honour of the comic series, which if you ask me is a hell of a lot more creative than "Acid Storm". Anyway, you can read about them here [http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4097552/7/System_of_a_Down], if you like.--[[User:Nightshade83|Nightshade83]] 17:29, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
:::We've yet to see a packaging bio, so it can't be certain ''who'' he's supposed to be. The coincidences are pretty big, though.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:51, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
::::If we've yet to see a packaging bio, how do we even know he's a he? Maybe Hasbro has released the first canon female Seeker? That would be awesome! --[[User:Nightshade83|Nightshade83]] 18:05, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

==Camo jets==
To help settle the question of whether Acid Storm's camo is a reference to anything, I've found pics of the <strike>three</strike> four camo-jet TFs I know about:

[http://www.tf-1.com/articles/other/g2ramjet/g2rjet1.jpg Unproduced G2 Ramjet]

[http://www.seibertron.com/images/news/gfx/1188406662_303.jpg Unproduced G2 somebody]

[http://www.tfu.info/1997/Decepticon/Thundercracker/vehiclemode.jpg MW Thundercracker]

'''Edit:''' [http://seibertron.com/images/toys/files/33/wingstun013.jpg Wing Stun]

And here's [http://seibertron.com/images/events/99/universe050.jpg Acid Storm.]

If I had to say who's ''closest''... I'd go with probably <strike>MW Thundercracker</strike> Wing Stun. But that's still <strike>quite the</strike> a bit of a stretch. Certainly for the purposes of the article, I don't think we should identify the deco as a reference to any one of them.

- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 03:53, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
:You forgot [[Wing Stun]]. But I agree, it looks like a brand new scheme not inspired by any previous jet. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 04:06, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
::Noted, thanks. And I'm starting to rethink the idea that we shouldn't mention past camo-jets; it might be a good idea to bring up ALL the predecessors just to disabuse anyone of the notion that there is a specific homage involved. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 17:39, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

== Fiction ==

Should this be treated the same way Sunstorm was? It's my understanding that he's fully intended to be the green rainmaker, so that episode detail should go on this page, yes?<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Skyglide

2008-04-13T16:59:51Z

Spectre: Pretty sure this came out.

:''Skyglide is an [[Autobot]]-allied [[Mini-Con]] from the [[Classics (2006)|Classics]] portion of the [[Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''
[[Image:Skyglide.jpg|thumb|250px|You gotta get up preeeeettty early in the morning to qualify for ownership of me! And in the past. And in Japan.]]
'''Skyglide''' is red!

==Toys==
===Henkei! Henkei! Transformers===
*'''Skyglide''' (Micron, 2008)

: Skyglide is a [[redeco]] of the ''[[Classics (2006)|Classics]]'' Mini-Con [[Steel Wind]], transforming into a red [[Popular Earth vehicle alternate modes#A-10 Thunderbolt II|A-10 Thunderbolt plane]], seemingly an [[homage]] to [[Powerglide]].

: He was only available in Japan free with the purchase of any ''Henkei! Henkei! Transformers'' (the Japanese version of ''Classics'') purchase on March 13, at participating Toys "R" Us stores. Reportedly, each store got a whopping ''ten'' pieces. Each came in a baggie with instructions.

: You read that correctly. ''Ten''.

==External links==
* [http://www.takaratomy.co.jp/products/TF/products/henkei/camp.html Skyglide campaign page on TakaraTomy's official web site]

[[Category: Autobots]]
[[Category: Classics characters]]
[[Category: Japanese-original characters]]
[[Category: Japanese promotion exclusives]]
[[Category: Mini-Cons]]
[[Category: Toys "R" Us exclusives]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Smokescreen (Movie)

2008-01-21T09:09:37Z

Spectre:

{{disambig3|Smokescreen}}

:''Smokescreen is an [[Autobot]] from the [[Transformers (2007)|live-action movie]] [[continuity family]].''

When the Autobots need some [[Decepticon]] sensors scrambled, they call in their chief diversionary tactician, '''Smokescreen'''. With an array of specially designed weapons and tools at his disposal, ranging from sonic burst weapons to magnetic smoke bombs and oil slicks, this 'bot is a master of distraction.

==Toys==
===''Transformers'' (2007)===
*'''Sonic Shock Smokescreen''' (Fast Action Battler, 2008)

[[Image:Movie_FAB_Smokescreen.jpg|thumb|left|200px|Because really, there aren't ''enough'' [[homage]]s of this deco. We need about forty-six more.]]

: A [[redeco]] of Ion Blast [[Jazz (Movie)|Autobot Jazz]], "Sonic Shock" Smokescreen sports a red and blue colour scheme based very closely upon ''[[Generation 1]]'' [[Smokescreen (G1)|Smokescreen]]. In vehicle mode he's kind of a squat and cutified Pontiac Solstice while in robot mode he bears a decent resemblance to various ''Generation 1'' hood-chest Transformers. Amusingly, [[Fast Action Battler]] Smokescreen's head is mounted on a piece of plastic extending from the roof/windshield piece, just like the ''Generation 1'' toy. His articulation is limited to his shoulders, hips and knees, and has a missile launcher in place of his left hand.

{{-}}

==Merchandise==
===3D Battle Card Game===
*'''Smokescreen''' (2007)
:''Card number'': '''12'''

[[Image:3DCard-Smokescreen.jpg|right|thumb|200px|He won that body in a poker game.]]

: Smokescreen is a 29-point "Uncommon" piece in the [[3D Battle-Card Game]]. Constructed of punch-out pieces from randomly-packed plastic cards (two full robots per pack), he can be assembled into his car mode (model undetermined), or into a rather stumpy robot mode. One of his blaster-weapons is held in his right hand, the other can mount on either shoulder.

: He uses the same construction as the [[Cliffjumper (Movie)|Cliffjumper]] and Jazz cards. This style is similar to the one used by [[Barricade (Movie)|Barricade]], [[Earth]]-mode [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]], and [[Swerve (Movie)|Swerve]].

{{-}}
==Trivia==
* Battle-Card-Smokescreen's robot mode is clearly designed after ''[[Alternators]]'' Smokescreen, though without the IP-infringing Subaru and sponsor markings.

==External links==
* [http://www.wizards.com/transformers/ 3D Battle Card Game at Wizards of the Coast]

[[Category: Autobots]]
[[Category: Movie characters]]
[[Category: Toy-only characters]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Smokescreen (Movie)

2008-01-21T08:59:32Z

Spectre:

{{disambig3|Smokescreen}}

:''Smokescreen is an [[Autobot]] from the [[Transformers (2007)|live-action movie]] [[continuity family]].''

When the Autobots need some [[Decepticon]] sensors scrambled, they call in their chief diversionary tactician, '''Smokescreen'''. With an array of specially designed weapons and tools at his disposal, this 'bot is a master of distraction.

==Toys==
===''Transformers'' (2007)===
*'''Sonic Shock Smokescreen''' (Fast Action Battler, 2008)

[[Image:Movie_FAB_Smokescreen.jpg|thumb|left|200px|Because really, there aren't ''enough'' [[homage]]s of this deco. We need about forty-six more.]]

: A [[redeco]] of Ion Blast [[Jazz (Movie)|Autobot Jazz]], "Sonic Shock" Smokescreen sports a red and blue colour scheme based very closely upon ''[[Generation 1]]'' [[Smokescreen (G1)|Smokescreen]]. In vehicle mode he's kind of a squat and cutified Pontiac Solstice while in robot mode he bears a decent resemblance to various ''Generation 1'' hood-chest Transformers. Amusingly, [[Fast Action Battler]] Smokescreen's head is mounted on a piece of plastic extending from the roof/windshield piece, just like the ''Generation 1'' toy. His articulation is limited to his shoulders, hips and knees, and has a missile launcher in place of his left hand.

{{-}}

==Merchandise==
===3D Battle Card Game===
*'''Smokescreen''' (2007)
:''Card number'': '''12'''

[[Image:3DCard-Smokescreen.jpg|right|thumb|200px|He won that body in a poker game.]]

: Smokescreen is a 29-point "Uncommon" piece in the [[3D Battle-Card Game]]. Constructed of punch-out pieces from randomly-packed plastic cards (two full robots per pack), he can be assembled into his car mode (model undetermined), or into a rather stumpy robot mode. One of his blaster-weapons is held in his right hand, the other can mount on either shoulder.

: He uses the same construction as the [[Cliffjumper (Movie)|Cliffjumper]] and Jazz cards. This style is similar to the one used by [[Barricade (Movie)|Barricade]], [[Earth]]-mode [[Bumblebee (Movie)|Bumblebee]], and [[Swerve (Movie)|Swerve]].

{{-}}
==Trivia==
* Battle-Card-Smokescreen's robot mode is clearly designed after ''[[Alternators]]'' Smokescreen, though without the IP-infringing Subaru and sponsor markings.

==External links==
* [http://www.wizards.com/transformers/ 3D Battle Card Game at Wizards of the Coast]

[[Category: Autobots]]
[[Category: Movie characters]]
[[Category: Toy-only characters]]<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Bumper (Movie)

2008-01-21T08:29:56Z

Spectre: New page: Are these new comic-only guys based on any particular toys? I want to say this guy looks like a Micromaster, but I could be imagining things...--~~~~

Are these new comic-only guys based on any particular toys? I want to say this guy looks like a Micromaster, but I could be imagining things...--[[User:Spectre|Spectre]] 08:29, 21 January 2008 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Template talk:Charstubfiction

2008-01-16T01:54:03Z

Spectre:

Proposition... "charstub" is for pages that are missing, well, a lot of different stuff. To break things up and make it easier for people who are more bent towards either the fiction or toys to find pages they can add to... I propose sub-categories "Character stubs missing fiction" and "Character stubs missing toys".

{{messagebox
|header=I want to tell you about the Transformers!
|message_text=''This character article is a [[:Category:Character stubs missing fiction|stub]] and is missing information on their '''fictional appearances'''. You can help '''{{SITENAME}}''' by [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit}} expanding it].''
|image_name=Rad-sm.gif
|width = 90%
}}

I don't know what image/quote combo would work best for toys yet, though. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:11, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

:Sounds like an okay idea to me. And I love the template. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 05:28, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
:::I thought the quote was "I'm here to tell you about the Transformers!"? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 09:46, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
::Just gotta figure out a suitable toy one. Hmmm....
{{messagebox
|header=Collect them all!
|message_text=''This character article is a [[:Category:Character stubs missing toys|stub]] and is missing information on their '''toys & merchandise'''. You can help '''{{SITENAME}}''' by [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit}} expanding it].''
|image_name=Rad-sm.gif
|width = 90%
}}
::Pretend Rad there is... uh... and image of a Scramble City combiner toy missing an arm. I've had people suggest mistransformed toys, but that's not really what I'm after... --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 07:49, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

You want to put a template box '''that big''', in the '''middle''' of the article? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:40, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
:Oh, don't start that up again...
::It doesn't need to be as small as <nowiki>{{notebox}}</nowiki>, but if it's going to be appearing mid-article I'd like to at least trim some of the padding from this template. [http://www.emopanda.com/tmp/waspy_charstub.jpg This] is what page 4 of the Waspinator article looks like if you print it. Messagebox is just '''too big''' to use in the middle of articles!
::Incidentally Siph, I ''love'' this picture of rad. Any chance you could upload a png version? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:41, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
:I will miss Kup though if we switch over.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 16:10, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
::Kup is currently doing duty as the <nowiki>{{stub}}</nowiki> image, so he's around. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 16:22, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
:::Aha. Didn't see that he'd been switched around with Animated Megatron. Keen.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 16:24, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

... AHA! I got it! Kenji with the Magnus watch! It's an ''in-fiction'' depiction of a character with TF merchandise, from a source that -I do beleive- has not been used in a template yet! Plus there's symmetry with the Rad image for fiction! (I think they're even poitned in opposite directions.)Okay, the text will probably end up a generic "Collect them all!", but still... I think this works. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 22:38, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
:I could see perhaps a Wreck-Gar image with "Collect and save!" as the caption.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 01:07, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
::I'd like to avoid the G1 cartoon and Marvel comics. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:24, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
:::Then obviously we must wait until Weird Al says it in Animated. Because you know he will...--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 01:28, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
::::Of course, Vehicon Jetstorm has out-and-out said "Gotta catch 'em all"... --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:44, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::I like the Jetstorm idea. --[[User:Spectre|Spectre]] 01:54, 16 January 2008 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

User talk:Interrobang

2008-01-16T00:55:01Z

Spectre: Generation One/1

===Fucking up the characters categories===
Cut it out! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:40, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

===Megatron (BW)===
Hey, Interrobang, you've written the entire ''Beast Wars'' fiction section in present tense. It should be in past tense. Couldja please fix it? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 04:04, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

----

Sorry if I wasn't aware of this, but has there been a discussion about making a "''series'' Character" category and putting all the characters into it?
Also, the Classics category does not belong in the Generation 1 category. The Classics Mini-cons aren't from G1, nor is Leo Prime. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 17:07, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Every new iteration of G1 has added unique characters. In DreamwaveG1, we got [[Fallen|the Fallen]], [[Gravitas]] and the other ancients, [[Backbite]] and his assassin team, etc. The IDW comics have given us a bunch of new humans and even a [[Calabi-Yau|named spaceship]]. ''Classics'' is likewise a G1 continuity because of its core cast and overall theme. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]]

::I ''think'' I read in some report out of BotCon that the Classics Mini-Cons are going to be considered part of a G1 universe. Can anyone confirm that? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 17:58, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

::: I can. Forrest Lee stated the Classics Mini-Cons ARE, fictionally, part of the Classics "neo-G1" universe. Which I wholeheartedly approve of. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 19:15, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

::::My first reaction was, "WHAT fiction?" But then it occurred to me that the ''Classics'' line has already seeped into the IDW-G1 universe via Jetfire. How much crossover can happen before we consider them one and the same (well, as one-and-the-same as, say, DW-Energon and the Energon toys)?
:::::Doubt that'll happen. At the fan club magazine panel, [[Forest Lee]] said that next year's fan club newsletter comic storyline was probably going to use the Classics in a post-Marvel Comics universe. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:35, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

::::::Serious? Oh, rock ''on.'' - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 20:10, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I wonder how that'll square with their apparent plan to keep annually releasing the clear Energon combiner figures. Maybe those characters will jump out of the UT dimension and into the Marvel comic universe? - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 21:57, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:::::::They will. Skyfall and Landquake will be taking center stage, and presumably combiner #3 will have ended up in G1-land, #4 in post-movie-land, etc. Also, Unicron is now a focal point of the comic too, so there you go. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 22:15, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

RE: [[Packrat]], [[Fractyl]], etc.: At what point does "speculation" become unsuitable for this Wiki when we're dealing with a storyline that can't be explained without severe untangling and hole-filling? Is it a matter of phrasing or italicizing? The bits you deleted weren't random, Neale-style "apocrypha." Those characters are on the outskirts of a major time-travel storyline that ends with an entire timeline being negated, canonically. And there are good reasons to think that their BW adventures went "poof" along with the rest. (See Derik and my discussion on [[Vice Grip]].) No, it's not a NECESSARY conclusion, nor did I suggest that it was. But it's a strong enough possibility that I think we do the Wiki a disservice if it's not mentioned. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 08:36, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
:Yeah, but you could have said it in under 20 words. '''And''' your time-altering explanation doesnt' fit the sequence of events. '''And'''... this is really more appropriate as a general entry on the main 3h Fiction page, nothign that their 'extra characters' fit badly aroudn the edges of the universe. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 08:49, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

The french version of firefox is not that helpfull on that matter. Sorry, I'll try to be more carefuul.

==Recent==
Sorry, I think I accidentally picked that up from whoever's line I edited on the Floro page. I'll go catch them all.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 04:35, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

==Re:Bulkhead edit==
"J'wan"? --[[User:Sntint|Sntint]] 07:10, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

=="Reverted on general principle"==
The guy's being obnoxious, but his edit has merit. I think he's just a little too young. I undid your edit in the process of trying to clean up the matter. --[[User:Sntint|Sntint]] 07:49, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

== Keywords ==

Please don't orphan pages by deleting sections you find aesthetically displeasing.

If you want to remove those sections then, ''at minimum'', it falls to you to to link those orphaned articles up. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:21, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

== Personal attacks in edit summaries ==

"Are you sure you don't have Asperger's?"

That was REALLY uncalled-for. --[[User:TVsGrady|TVsGrady]] 23:22, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

==Comic article titles==
I wish you would wait on moving a bunch of comic issue articles until we come to a desicion about what scheme to go with site-wide. It's being [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal#Comic Issues Naming Convention|slowly discussed on the community portal]]. I agree that we should be consistent, but I do not like the parantheses scheme you are moving things to. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 19:10, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

==Beast Wars timeline==
Hello, I've start a article [[Beast Era timeline|here]] by using some temporary file I write before, maybe you can help with that! ;D --[[User:TX55|TX55]] 04:47, 05 November 2007 (UTC)

== Graphy ==

Why would you capitalize the name of a dinosaur type? We don't capitalize the names of other animals in mid-sentence. (Okay, except weird ones that involve people's names, like a Thompson's gazelle, but still...)--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 23:24, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

==Popular alt-modes==

Yeah, I honestly made that edit (Overkill) expecting it would get reverted. For some reason I considered that the best method by which to point out what seemed to be the confusion. The anon seemed unaware of the Classics version from the customizing class, so his stance seemed to be based solely around the tape body. So I thought I'd point out the confusion.

Maybe we *should* specify bodies on the list, though, given this confusion? It may or may not be practical, and it also may or may not even be warranted. This is only the first time there's been a mistake, to my knowledge, so I'm not really going to push the issue hard. --[[User:Sntint|Sntint]] 18:17, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
:I dunno. We could do that if it came down to it, but so far, it's just one anon. If it's a recurring problem with other people, that's an option. [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] 18:22, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

==Quotes==
Uh, not to make all your work seem useless, but wouldn't it just be easier to have the quotation marks appear within the template and get it down with all at once rather than do it one article at a time? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 00:42, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
:I think I've noted him inserting italics formatting here and there, so the quotes aren't 100% universal to the needs of the template.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 01:13, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

==Category changes==
Hey, Interrobang -- I wish you wouldn't make such sweeping category changes without posting a notice to the relevant talk page first, just to double-check things. For example, the discussion in [[Category talk:Siblings]] sort of went in a "let's have a general category for all relatives" direction without quite reaching consensus. Now that the siblings category is empty, it will be a lot more work to fill up a "has relatives" category if/when we make one, because we'll have to "rediscover" all the sibling articles. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 21:59, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
:Well, the discussion had been lingering around for ''19 months''. I assumed nobody particularly cared about the thing anymore. If you need the sibling articles, you can just look in my "User contributions". My editing sprees are mostly unbroken. [[User:Interrobang|—‽]] 00:44, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
::Yes, it had stagnated for a very long time. However, even a brief glance at that discussion shows that support was not there for a straight-up "delete". --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 05:49, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

== your fucked up signature ==

Could you change your signature so it actually includes your user name? I like being able to see who made a comment without having to see the destination of the link.

Either way, I shall now call you "The Editor Formerly Known As Interrobang" --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 00:55, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
:No problem! [[User:Interrobang|—"‽" is an Interrobang]] 01:37, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

:way to not know an interrobang when you see one. [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 12:55, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

::The Japanese must never learn of this. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 17:37, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
:::It ''does'' have the feeling of something the Japanese would latch on to without realizing it's barely known in English, doesn't it? (Though strange Hydra kept removing interrobangs when I put them in his article titles...) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:12, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
I like "‽," it's all clever 'n stuff. Does it work on macs? A lot of extended character-set stuff doesn't. (You could use <span title="Interrobang"> for a mouseover- but I suspect some users just want it to be readable.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:12, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

It does work on a Mac but that does not take away from the total uselessness of the name... it didn't work for Prince and it doesn't work here either [[User:Gspro15198|Gspro15198]] 23:25, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

==Boxart scans/DVD covers==
Perhaps you should have read the Rewind/Eject discussion before taking a shot a me. The discussion I had with Walky was about poor quality scans that were jagged and badly cut out, and eventually steve-o agreed. As for the DVD covers I plan on uploading images of every DVD release of Transformers from the various distributors over time. Also, I left Amazon's white space intact because '''wide''' images are easier to format the page to than '''tall''' images. Tall images, without enough text, either cuts into other sections or create massive whitespace. I have uploaded alot of images, so I know from experience how they affect formatting, you know. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 08:23, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

==Brawn lives==
Interro, you deleted legitimate content from the [[Brawn]] article without an edit summary ''and'' marked the edit as minor.[http://transformers.wikia.com/index.php?title=Brawn&diff=127964&oldid=127854] Please be more careful. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 05:49, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

==Home is Where the Spark Is==
Hi. I'm putting the slumber party stuff back in that you took out. It's childish and emasculating, but it's canon.--[[User:Suzyprime|Suzyprime]] 23:45, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
:Just what are you talking about? —Interrobang 23:48, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
::No big deal. Just an edit. If it wasn't you, I apologize. Again, no big deal.--[[User:Suzyprime|Suzyprime]] 23:53, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

==J-category work==
I see you're doing a lot of category work, including some Japanese guys. I was going to send my bot to change all the Japan-only's to Japanese-origin's. Will that interfere with your subgroup stuff? --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 02:26, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

==Comic issue re-arrangement==
When did we decide to change the comic book article format to be the same as the cartoon episode formats? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 00:00, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

==Deletion==
That's not going to make him go away and you fucking know it. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 00:40, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
:Have to agree. He's having us delete the evidence he was here because he wants to try to sneak back in. He's not doing it very ''smartly'', but he's made plain what his intentions are.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 00:43, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
::Call it optimism for stupid people. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 00:45, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

See? Told you so. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:51, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

== Generation One/1 ==

"One" has been used by Hasbro in tons of G1 product - Reissues and Heroes of Cybertron most prominently. It appears to be Hasbro's preferred way of spelling it out. --[[User:Spectre|Spectre]] 00:55, 16 January 2008 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Prowl (TM2)

2008-01-11T00:05:39Z

Spectre:

...this image caption puzzles me. Is it supposed to be some sort of O. G. Readmore reference? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:53, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Surely this article's suffix should be (Transmetal 2), should it not? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 00:02, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

aargh, I'm pulling my hair out while trying to refrain from changing the caption to "Prowl has a habit of taking a long time to notice other people's problems"--[[User:Carrion|Carrion]] 03:52, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

==Move==
Since Magnaboss Prowl has been retconned (stupidly) into being G1 Prowl... should not THIS Prowl now be under (BW)? ... and shit, same for Silverbolt. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 02:19, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

:I argue that BW, while ''accurate'', isn't a terribly ''helpful'' disambig-- it invites confusion since he is ''not'' the only BW Prowl. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:08, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
::Confusion easily cleared up by, well, glancing at the page. (And considering the number of characters who cross franchises, particularly into Universe, causing a lot of name repetition...) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 04:14, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

== Prowl 2/BW Prowl/BT Prowl/etc ==

Is there any actual solid proof that all of these guys are the same character or is Derik taking his fanon waaaaaaay too seriously?
:Please read [[Talk:Prowl 2|this discussion]], already in progress.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:24, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

:TM2 Prowl is ''explicitly'' BT Prowl from the new sourcebook apparently. (This character has been rechristened Prowl II by the sourcebook.)
:BT Prowl's bio seem to make allusion to him ''also'' being Prowl 2, which is what we're arguing about. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:25, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

== Be careful what you wish for ==

For years fans speculated whether one of the BW Prowls was G1 Prowl.

Who'd have thought they'd ''both'' turn out to be him? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:28, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

== RID Prowl 2 ==

Where is it stated that the RID Prowl 2 is the same guy as the BT Prowl/TM2 Prowl/Magnaboss Prowl? Takata may sonsider all pf RID/Car Robots as part of G1, but this doesn't apply to the US continuity. (Unless this was stated in the BW Sourcebook) --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 19:37, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:This is Derik's theory, which is being discussed mostly over at [[Talk:Prowl 2]], but also at other Prowl pages. His theory is that the Binaltech Prowl, RID Prowl 2 toy, and Owl-Prowl (but not Magnaboss Prowl) are one character, distinct from Prowl (G1)/Magnaboss Prowl. The support for BT Prowl and RID Prowl 2 being the same character is that A) the Japanese booklet for BT Prowl mentions that his body was originally designated "Prowl 2", B) RID Prowl 2 has no bio, and C) in Japan G1 and RID are the same continuity. The writer of the booklet, Ichikawa, apparently likes putting connections like that into his material, so this may well represent authorial intent, but the general opinion seems to be that it's not a sufficiently supported theory.
:The idea that BT Prowl and Owl-Prowl are the same guy is apparently pretty strongly supported by Owl-Prowl's bio in the BW Sourcebook (I haven't read that, myself). Which means that both Magnaboss-Prowl and Owl-Prowl "are" G1 Prowl, at the same time in the same continuity, if you treat BT Prowl and G1 Prowl as "the same character". However, BT Prowl's origin story is weird enough that it can be considered a branch point, creating a new character who just happens to mostly think he's Prowl (G1).
:In short, waffles! [[User:JW|JW]] 19:55, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
::I dislike this being characterzed as 'Derik's wacky theory' since it's pretty clearly what Ichikawa had in mind when he made the 'Prowl 2' reference. What we are essentially disagreeing over is whether this means he ''is'' Prowl 2, or whether it's a homage to Prowl 2.
::There's a seperate-but-related contingent that says "Prowl 2 is just RiD Prowl, even though he has a different name and there's a duplicate prowl running around." This ignores that if Ichikawa-kun wanted to referencing ''him'', he wouldn't be calling him Prowl 2, he'd be calling him Mach Alert because of of Japan view RiD/CR.
::But mostly, yeah, JW's summary is spot-on. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:15, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:::Hey, I didn't call it wacky, and I ''did'' say that it was probably what Ichikawa intended. (The "waffles" non sequiter was a joke on what a huge mess even the completely canonical Prowl stuff is.) [[User:JW|JW]] 20:22, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
::::Yeah, I got the waffles joke, it made me laugh! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:26, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

=Old Talk:Prowl 2 page=
What the fuck, Derik? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 21:18, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

:...do you not think Prowl 2 needs an article? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:45, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
::I don't even understand what that was about. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 21:46, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

::::[http://bwtf.com/binaltech/prowl/booklet.shtml Read, learn.] -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:52, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::Skimming the booklet, it looks like "Prowl 2" ended up as just a new body for Prowl, and is not meaningfully a separate character. It should probably be handled in Prowl's article. [[User:JW|JW]] 22:10, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

::::::Amazingly actually ''reading'' the booklet yields a different result than ''skimming'' it. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:11, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Given my apparent lack of reading skills, I would appreciate it if you would give us a summary of your reasons for creating this page. [[User:JW|JW]] 22:16, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
::::::::Okay! Summary follows:
::::::::''He's a separate character from Prowl.
::::::::Summary ends. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:29, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Okay, I took the time to read it more thoroughly. The Prowl described there is A) a copy of Prowl's consciousness, previously stored on a computer, '''plus''' B) a human (Chip Chase) in a symbiotic relationship with him, right?
:::::::Ergo, it's a lot like Powermaster Optimus Prime as he appeared in the G1 comics, who we don't consider to be a separate character. Heck, given that we still consider the Prime from Marvel Comics issue 80 to be the same character (a Last Autobot-empowered reincarnation of Prime, based on Hi-Q, based on Powermaster Optimus Prime, who in turn was made from a floppy disc copy of the original Prime), I don't think Prowl 2 warrants a new page. It's the same guy as Prowl. [[User:JW|JW]] 22:26, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
::::::::That would be a ''completely'' adequate explanation if we didn't have this guy ''and'' the original Prowl running around simultaneously, as different individuals, in two separate places in continuity.
::::::::And also if, you know, we hadn't actually gotten a toy called 'Prowl 2.' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:29, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::Well, heck, dude, if you'd said that in the first place, instead of being all coy . . . [[User:JW|JW]] 22:32, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::...Isn't it ''implied'' by creating an article for him? Guys who aren't separate characters don't get one. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:40, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::The poop jokes and "I may be high at the moment" summary did not foster faith in your judgment. I am now reassured. [[User:JW|JW]] 02:14, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
[[Beast Wars Sourcebook]] heavily implies that Transmetal 2 Prowl is Binaltech Prowl in a new body, while Prowl from Magnaboss is the original Ark crewman in a new body. Yes, Ben Yee has made this a royal clusterfuck, but it's a ''canonical'' clusterfuck now.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 22:30, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
:[[JaAm|WhY mY HEad hURt?]] -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 22:35, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I know I'm only inviting a headache by asking, but... why is RID Prowl 2 in this? --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 23:25, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Was Binaltech Prowl actually called "Prowl 2"? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 23:51, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
:The Blue one? I believe so. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 23:53, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
::What I mean to ask was, "was the toy was actually sold under the name Prowl 2"? The link to the Binaltech booklet translation Derik provides above says mentions that in the storyline the Binaltech Prowl body was originally developed to be a GT "parallel form" labelled "Prowl 2," but that plan was scrapped and that body became BT Prowl/Chip's main body. But was the character actually referred to as "Prowl 2" anywhere? Derik mentions above that we've "gotten a toy called Prowl 2"... but I think he may just be referring to the RiD toy, which he seems to think is the same character for some reason. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 00:19, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:::Nah, the toy itself was just called Prowl. I think Prowl 2 came from the BT storyline. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 00:59, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
::::Yeah, I see nothing to indicate that Owl Prowl is the RID guy in Owl Prowl's IDW writeup. Small miracles. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:01, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::As a note, Owl Prowl's page should be moved to [[Prowl II]], apparently, as that's how his IDW profile writes his name. Not with a 2. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:22, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I think Prowl 2 is the same character because he ''is'' the same character. From the BWTF.com translation;
:''At first, the Honda-designed BT-15 model was developed for this project to become the parallel form "Prowl 2," but because Prowl's original body was destroyed before the GT network was activated, it was decided that BT-15 would function as his primary unit.''
Remember, in ''japan'' Rid/CR takes place ''during'' G1. It's cracked- but RiD Prowl 2 is considered a G1 character in Japan. They're the same guy. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:32, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:Here's what's confusing me: It says that the BT Prowl body was originally designed to be a GT-unit called "Prowl 2," but that that plan was scrapped and it became Prowl/Chip's body instead. Where does it say that the Prowl/Chip character was actually called "Prowl 2"? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 02:38, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
::Do you have any evidence that RiD Prowl 2 is the same guy as Prowl II? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 02:41, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

:::RiD Prowl is a G1 character in Japan. Hirofumi Ichikawa wallowed int he RiD/G1 connection for Binaltech. (The GT system was a reference to RiD's Mirage GT.) So ''no'', I have no evidence that G1 Prowl 2 is the same character as the ''other'' G1 Prowl 2, other than Ichikawa ''going out of his way'' to note he was going to be called Prowl 2 soas to emphasize that connection in case you were thick enough to miss it.
:::(Am I crabby? Yes. But I've spent this entire page arguing with people who don't know what they're talking about, and when presented with links to information them skim them, miss the relevant parts and then tell me I'm wrong.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:12, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
::::I was pretty quickly turned off to objectively considering your idea because you *started out crabby*. You do that pretty frequently, and I know I've pointed it out [[Template_talk:Stub#Proposed_change_to_Stub_Template|at least once]] and I'm doing so again because I think it's valid. I don't understand why you'd contribute here if you apparently want to be so unhelpful. Indeed, what really did your Prowl 2 page accomplish besides getting rid of *one* [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Prowl_2|red link?]] (at the time, only the Optimus Prime page linked to "Prowl 2".) --[[User:Sntint|Sntint]] 04:54, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::That's a valid complaint. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:04, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
::::If you truly think it's a separate, undocumented, character, then it'd be far more helpful to not submit the page until you've taken the time to build it up to some degree of completion. Even if you *must* make only a stub right away, at least make it less... vomitous. As JW said, certain aspects of your initial article did *not* speak much of the article's validity. --[[User:Sntint|Sntint]] 04:54, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::But he has acid pellets! He's and ''owl''. Poop iss inherent in the joke, and I'd be shocked if the tech-spec writer wasn't thinking it (and giggling naughtily) as he wrote the profile! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:04, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
::::::Dude, it's just not very clear what your intentions are at all when you preface things with "I may be high". --[[User:Sntint|Sntint]] 05:09, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Which would explain my lousy section formatting, not the content! I write my [[blastification|best content]] high! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:25, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Derik - can you address my question? The paragraph you quote says that the Binaltech Prowl body was originally designed to a "parallel form" called "Prowl 2", but after Prowl's original body was destroyed "it was decided that BT-15 would function as his primary unit." So if this body is now the "primary unit" for Prowl (with added Chip) is the ''character'' called Prowl 2 or was that designation discarded along with the original "parallel form" plan? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 03:51, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

:Not sure! Perhaps it represents a branch point witht he Binaltech timeloop. But Project Bodyshop survives the timeloop, so...
: Look, he's a duplicate Prowl in G1. TM2 Prowl is a duplicate prowl in G1. Prowl 2 is a duplicate prowl in Rid... and Rid ''is G1'' in Japan. Binaltech Prowl is ''supposed to be'' RiD Prowl. The booklet included the reference for that very reason.
: So no Ethan, I can't produce a more explicit statement that BT Prowl is RiD Prowl2 than the ''already existing'' Hirofumi Ichikawa doing handstands in front of his lawn which he has lit on fire to spell out 'This is Prowl 2' for passing aircraft to read. I'm sorry- that's the best you're going to get. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:12, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
::Derik, there is not the slightest reason to believe that Prowl 2 is a duplicate Prowl in RID. That's the part you refuse to explain, hence that's the part people have trouble with.
::I'm pretty sure the Super Mode deluxes were originally solicited as "Prowl 2", "Sideburn 2", and so forth, and Prowl 2 seems to be based on Super Prowl, so presumably he made it to production before the change was made. That's still speculation, but it's much less baseless speculation than what you're presenting as fact. And I'm not presenting mine as fact. [[User:Chip|Chip]] 04:38, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:::The Binaltech booklet explicitly referencing Prowl 2 isn't the slightesst reason? I mean- sure, you might disagree that it's ''sufficient'' reason, but you deny it's even reason for pause or consideration? it carries no weight at all?
::::When it's a discarded idea, at most it was [[author intent]]... at some point in time. You keep forgetting that part, even when we bring it up. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 05:09, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::What discarded idea? It says 'Prowl 2' [http://www.emopanda.com/tmp/whatchutalkingaboutwillis.jpg on page 9 of the booklet], right there in plain kanji!
:::::How is something that got ''into'' the finished booklet a 'discarded idea'? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:25, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
::::::It also says "Optimus Prime" and "Prowl" on [http://ntfa.net/universe/english/index.php?act=view&char=Bumblebee Bumblebee's finished TFU entry]. Does that mean he's those two characters? Context, man. You keep intentionally ignoring the context. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 06:15, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::::I'm a little afraid Derik's trying too hard to be whimsical and funny. We're geeks, man. Geek humor has to be well-thought and without holes. When this can't be done, just stick to the facts. Scientific facts. --[[User:Sntint|Sntint]] 06:48, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
::::::That would be a great counter-argument ''if'' "Prowl 2" in BT Prowl's booklet I highlighted wasn't referring to ''that character'', unlike Optimus Prime and Prowl in Bumblebee's TFU Profile where those names refer to ''different'' characters.
::::::I prefer my comedically disingenuous arguments with more Batman references. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:23, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

== Quote Problem ==

I think there's a problem with the quote we're using ("BT-15 acts with all of Prowl's usual personality and will", etc.) If I'm reading [http://bwtf.com/binaltech/prowl/booklet.shtml the article] correctly, that quote is from the text that Mr. Ichikawa originally sent in, but is not in the actual published booklet. Ergo, it represents authorial intent, but isn't canon. But, I might be wrong {{m-}} the article at BWTF has the translation and the original stuff all mixed together, and is quite confusing. How does it look to other people? [[User:JW|JW]] 04:19, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

:I think Walky just deleted the article without moving it over its destination, so it's moot.
:I also think Walky forgets that 'Prowl 2' had a toy, for which this is a valid and official name, and if he'd prefer we work fro that article, 'Prowl 2' should be a redirect, not deleted. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:31, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
::Prowl 2 should redirect to [[Prowl (RID)]]. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 04:35, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:::But Prowl 2 ''isn't'' Prowl (RID). They are separate characters. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:40, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
::::In your personal canon, sure. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 04:51, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
You know what I hate? That the Deluxe redecoes didn't make it out with the 2s after their names like they were in the computers, so we could all know that "2" indicates that they're the redeco versions and our infuriatingly literal-minded fandom could stop doing things like complicating this issue into the fucking stratosphere. That's what I hate. -[[User:LV|LV]] 04:37, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:And 'GT' meant Grand Tourismo and represents Hasbro's myopic view that every indy car ever should be called Mirage.
:Ichikawa makes stupid things suck less. I'm sorry you don't feel like keeping track of the details. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:40, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

== Trying to sum up...Prowl vs. Prowl 2 ==

I think I understand where Derik is coming from, which is:

Binaltech Prowl's info contains a '''reference''' connecting the character to RiD's "Prowl 2". Binaltech is '''FULL''' of many intentional references to obscure Transformers (and even G.I.Joe) geekery, so the fact that it specifically references RiD's "Mirage GT" and "Prowl 2" is neither surprising nor odd. (And as Derik points out, RiD IS part of G1 in Japan, so they're not just cute cross-continuity nods but actual viable in-continuity references/explanations.)

The main arguments here all come down to whether that reference means he's meant to be the same character as Prowl 2 or if it is just a "nod" to him. Here it is again:

''At first, the Honda-designed BT-15 model was developed for this project to become the parallel form "Prowl 2," but because Prowl's original body was destroyed before the GT network was activated, it was decided that BT-15 would function as his primary unit.''

The mold ''was going to be'' "Prowl 2" that much is clear.

Walky and co.'s point seems to be that while it "was going to be" P2, the death of Prowl (in TF:TM right?) scraped that and it became the primary just plain "Prowl" unit instead. Great. That makes sense. So in some alternate continuity where G1 Prowl didn't die in the movie then this '''*IS*''' Prowl 2, but in regular continuity it's not. Atleast not yet...

Derik (I think, correct me if I'm wrong) assumes that at some point when the real Prowl come back this Prowl became designated "Prowl 2" again as was originally planned. Possible, but speculation. Another possibility is that Chip-Prowl stayed "Prowl" and a NEW GT body was built for them and THAT body was Prowl 2 from RiD. Hey, it's possible.

Yeah, my connclusions from all this:

1)Wow, this is a royal continuity KNOT!

2)There's not "quite" enough evidence to say RiD Prowl and owl Prowl are the same guy. Close, but not quite.

3) There is a strong enough leaning that there MIGHT be a connection that I'd at least mention the possibility and explain it in the wiki. Explaining concisely and understandably is the trick. ;-) --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 12:27, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

::Well, it wasn't in TF:TM that Prowl died in the Binaltech continuity - his spark actually ''got lost'' in subspace when they were attempting to transfer it into his new Binaltech body. That's what prompted Chip to step up and become the new Prowl.
::I'd say the major complication lies in the fact that Binaltech is split off into its own divergent parallel universe at the end of its story, which doesn't line up with the Beast Wars timeline, and hence can't really be a part of it, but HEY, thanks a lot for not paying attention recent Japanese continuity developments, there, Yee! - McFeely, not signed in
:::It splits off, but the split occours ''after'' Project Bodyshop was initiated, so it (and presumably the duplicate Prowl) remained part of the main timeline. (The split remaining post-BS was a plot point.)
:::Zac pretty much summed up my issues, he only missed one tiny point;
:::chip!Prowl being redsignated Prowl 2 if-when original!Prowl came back isn't some abstract socratic point. Prowl ''does'' come back at some point. As a result there's ''two'' of them running around during BW-era.
:::"Gee, we would have called this body Prowl 2 if the original was still bumming around. + The Original will be bumming around again at some point in the future = ?" -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:20, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

::::Ah, it's been a while since I read Binal-Prowl's full bio, but recardless of of where/how the original went out, the rest of the summary/points stand. I see what Derik's saying, and it does seem there's a decent possibillity that the owl and RiD Prowl 2s ''"likely could be"'' the same guy, but still for something this convoluted that's this much of a continuity/mind-screw I think we need something stronger that "likely could be" to include it as a fact. I remain with my original feeling: that it should get an explanation/note in here as an interesting/weird possibility, but I wouldn't go farther than that. --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 14:12, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

::::To be persnickety, I don't think we ''really'' know when the divergence occurs - it's not impossible that ''none'' of the events of Binaltech actually wind up occurring in the mainstream J-animated timeline (and it's certainly a smoother fit in the grand scheme of things). Project Bodyshop only started, after all, because Wheeljack specifically wanted to change the future, and the indication was that the existence of Binaltech warriors would lead to the Alternity - which, to me, says that Binaltech warriors don't exist in the mainstream timeline, otherwise there'd be no need to preserve the timeline Ravage screwed with. - McFeely again
:::::True enough. Is there no mention of the Cosmic Rust attack on the official JTF timeline? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:13, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
::::::There's a mention of it in the IDW Beast Wars continuity now. A time long ago that "many Autobots succumbed to an infection that destroyed their bodies," during which "humans and Autobots worked together on a project to construct new bodies based on a combination of Earth and Cybertronian technology." Thus, "this led to the infusion of a human's essence into a robotic body, the result being a warrior who took on the mantle of the Autobot Prowl for a brief time." Ergo, Binaltech Prowl 2 = Beast Wars Prowl II.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 17:18, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::::<nowiki>*shrug*</nowiki> So BT might be completely averted in the JCartoon timeline- but it is part of the IDWBW timeline. (That should probably be noted on the Alt/BT page, that it's a closed loop in the J'toon timeline.)
:::::::Also, do we have a page for the Alternity?-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:22, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
::::::There is a mention of the cosmic rust attack on the timeline, but then, it also includes ''all'' the events of Binaltech, and presents them as occurring concurrently with everything else in the "main" timeline, making no distinction over what happens in it, and what occurs only in the branching timeline (which is only created retroactively and aghh my brain).
::::::In other news, I really want to punch IDW's fucked-up Beast Wars timeline. - McFeely Once More

This is some of the most unfathomably stupid X-Men-In-The-Nineties idiotically-literal-fan bullshit I've ever seen, and that's it's been canonized is outright depressing. I want to hit IDW's BW with a fucking bus. Then back up and hit it again. Then pee on it. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 20:41, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

:Be fair, Ichikawa did it first. The BW Sourcebook just sucked any wonder, joy, or pleasure out of it. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:51, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

::''"The BW Sourcebook just sucked any wonder, joy, or pleasure out of it."'' You can accurately end that sentence after the word "sucked". [[User:JW|JW]] 21:02, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

::BT Prowl being Chip-for-brains was a bad idea, an utterly unneccessary occurence that was an uneccessary complication for the sake of fanwank. There's no denying it. But where Ichikawa was at least content to leave something at a ''sly reference'' to another series '''without''' actually tying them together, BWS has run headlong into that steaming shitpile and dove in, mouth open wide, once again for no good reason. (This is why I'm against claiming RiD Prowl 2 is actually part of this idiocy. Because that's taking the same path based on nothing but moronic literal-mindedness, which should be strenuously discouraged and derided.)
::Owl-Prowl was far better when he was just some nutball who ''thought'' he was a former Autobot. That one nugget of insanity in an otherwise logic-driven character was fun. Now? Goodbye, fun. Hello, idiocy. (And all this over a character of zero importance in the fiction he appears in, where WHO (ha ha) he is and what he's like doesn't matter because he's fodder there to show up and die.) --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 21:16, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

== More BT Craziness ==

I may be wrong, but according to...either Black Convoy or Mirage's peices of the BT story, wasn't the BT timeline preserved as an alternate timeline? If IDW's BW is therefore a part of that timeline, it isn't a part of the original timeline and could thus be ignored as a wholly separate part of BW? Sure makes it easier to ignore. --[[User:Spectre|Spectre]] 23:14, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:I think a problem is BW's G1 is already alternate to the main two original US G1 continuities we know (BW instead being a fusion of mostly the G1 cartoon with parts of the Marvel comics lore), and what we do know is rather vague. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 23:18, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
::Although we ''do'' know that BW's G1 features Galvatron killing Starscream, and since Megatron doesn't ''become'' Galvatron in the BT timeline... - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 23:22, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:::Yeah, the Binaltech storyline specifically doesn't work towards Beast Wars. What a clusterfuck. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 23:52, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
::::Right, BT doesn't work towards what we know of BW, but maybe it results in shitty IDW-BW? Just trying to figure out a reasonable reason to ignore IDW-BW as a separate, stupid, alternate to BW, instead of seemingly being shoved into the show-universe. Just thinkin'. --[[User:Spectre|Spectre]] 00:05, 11 January 2008 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>

Talk:Prowl (RID)

2008-01-10T23:19:41Z

Spectre:

==Prowl 2==
So, I gather the "Prowl 2" toy has no bio? [[User:JW|JW]] 13:01, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
: you gather correctly. He, Side Swipe and Daytonus went bio-less despite their many releases. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:11, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
::While I find your "Chip-Prowl = RiD-Prowl 2 = Owl-Prowl II" theory kinda neat (now that it's been explained to me), I'm afraid my better judgment says to invoke [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_Razor Occam's Razor] here: "Entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity." Barring more substantive proof than Ichikawa being cute, the Prowl 2 toy should be assumed to be the same guy as Prowl (RID) by default.
::However, I would support the addition of a trivia note to this article: "As the Prowl 2 toy has no bio, it is only ''probably'' the same character as Prowl. The Japanese booklet for the Binaltech release of Alternators Prowl (G1) states that his Binaltech body was originally designated 'Prowl 2'. As in Japan the RID continuity (called Car Robots there) is (arguably) part of G1, this can be read as a retcon of the identity of the Prowl 2 toy. This fanon theory has not found wide acceptance, however."
::Is this note acceptable to people? [[User:JW|JW]] 14:35, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:::Occam's Razor demands that the bio-less Prowl 2 be Prowl instead of Prowl II, despite Prowl II's bio ''referencing'' Prowl 2 (using that name format!) and existing in the same continuity?
:::That's a pretty screwy rendition of Occam's Razor you've got going there Sweeny Todd. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:50, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
::::When you say "Prowl II's bio" are you referring to Owl-Prowl's bio or Chip-Prowl's bio?
::::Also, I'm trying to help here, so could you be civil? [[User:JW|JW]] 14:58, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

::::: How about we tweek it so that the same note could be included with G1 Prowl and Owl Prowl as well as they are all characters cought in this mother of a continuity mess. How about:

:::::*'''Note:''' The "Prowl 2" [[spychanger]] released during [[Robots in Disguise]] has no bio, exactly who or what it represents as a character is open to debate. Many have assumed it is simply the same character as RiD [[Prowl (RID)|Prowl]]. Things are not necessarily that simple however, as in Japan the RID continuity has been retconed into being part of G1. The Japanese booklet for [[Binaltech]] [[Prowl II | Prowl]] states that his Binaltech self (which is a fusion of a copy of Prowl's mind and [[Chip Chase]]) was originally designated 'Prowl 2'. This could be read as a retcon of the identity of the Prowl 2 toy. That interpritation has not found wide acceptance, however.
:::::--[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 15:06, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
::::::That seems ''long.
::::::How about since Prowl 2 has a different ''name'' from RiD Prowl and there's some not-insignifigant reasosn to believe he's not the same character, we break Prowl 2 (RID) into his own article and note that he ''might'' be Prowl II (or Prowl RiD I guess)-- basically the way we treat the question of [[T-Wrecks]] identity? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 15:54, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Final Battle Jazz also has a different name from normal-ol' Autobot Jazz. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 17:29, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
::::::::More Batman. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:36, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
::::::Er- to clarify, I propose we conclude that Prowl 2 ''probably isn't'' Prowl (RiD) while we suspend judgment on whether he is PRowl II. (There's reason to think so, but apparently not enough evidence for a firm consensus.) Treat RiD Prowl 2 as his own character (logistically) while noting that he may ''actually be'' one of these other two guys. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 15:59, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

As the Spychanger came before the Powered-Up Redecos, I always assumed that those redecos were initially planned on being called Prowl 2/Side Burn 2/X-Brawn 2, and thus the Spychangers, as being based more on the Powered-Up colors, was called Prowl 2. It appears this changed by the time the redecos came out. Saying he's not Prowl is just making things way too complicated. --[[User:Spectre|Spectre]] 23:19, 10 January 2008 (UTC)<div id="wikia-credits"><br /><br /><small>From [http://transformers.wikia.com Teletraan I: The Transformers Wiki], a [http://www.wikia.com Wikia] wiki.</small></div>