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<p>Suki Brits: </p> <hr /> <div>{{factions|autobot|wreckers}}<br /> {{featured}}<br /> {{disambig3|Wreckers}}<br /> [[File:Wreckers symbol.png|thumb|Wreck &amp; Rule.]]<br /> The '''Wreckers''' are a special task force, generally composed of the best and the toughest die-hard fighters around. Its ranks include a veritable who's-who of the obscure; mechs you've never heard much about, mostly because the Wreckers are often called in to fight when the odds of success are slim. Bluntly, they tend to burn through their roster at a frightening rate. The Wreckers are a close-knit group that's more concerned with bursting in, guns-blazing, and doing their Thing, than they are concerned with, say, strategy. Despite their disregard for planning and the bodycount their team mounts, the Wreckers are amazingly successful. If it's a lost cause, the Wreckers will be there, winning the day with sheer guts and determination.<br /> <br /> Perhaps the most celebrated leader of the Wreckers is [[Springer (G1)|Springer]], though the memory of his former leader, [[Impactor (G1)|Impactor]], hangs over his head. The team also has vague ties to [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]], and the [[Maximal]] future will bring leaders such as [[Apelinq (BM)|Apelinq]] and [[Primal Prime]]. <br /> <br /> They're associated with Autobots like the [[Deluxe Vehicle]]s and [[Jumpstarter]]s, but when [[Target: 2006|times]] [[Transformers: The Wreckers|get]] [[The Transformers: Last Stand of the Wreckers|really]] [[Of Masters and Mayhem|desperate]], they'll grab ''anyone'': newly modified Autobots, [[Predacon (BW)|Predacons]], squishy [[human]]s, and even former [[Decepticon]]s or the [[Ironfist (G1)#2005 IDW continuity|dying]]. <br /> <br /> {{bigquote|Never a dull moment when you're a Wrecker.|[[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]]|[[Stormbringer issue 4|''Stormbringer'' #4]]}}<br /> <br /> ==Fiction==<br /> ===Generation 1 continuity family===<br /> ====Marvel Comics continuity====<br /> =====Marvel ''The Transformers'' comics=====<br /> {{noteukexclusive|The Wreckers}}<br /> [[File:Wreckersoriginallineup.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|They always smile after a nice massacre.]]<br /> The Wreckers were [[Emirate]] [[Xaaron]]'s special ops squad, first being heard from during [[Trannis]]'s dread advances. Their first mission was to assassinate Trannis himself and they succeeded (and that meant [[Straxus (G1)|Straxus]] took over, whoops). {{storylink|Cybertron: The Middle Years!}}<br /> <br /> In [[1986]], the roster of the Wreckers consisted of Impactor (the leader), Roadbuster, Whirl, Twin-Twist, Topspin, and Rack'n'Ruin. They were later joined by Broadside, Sandstorm, and Springer (who became the team's leader after Impactor's death). The team were set to be at the business end of [[Operation: Volcano]], killing ten of the most deadly Decepticons as they converged on a staged conference. Without [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Ultra Magnus]] around to help, however, they would have been massacred soon after and they came close to backing out, only to decide to do their duty. The Autobot [[Triple Changer]]s were sent in as a replacement. <br /> <br /> However, when [[Megatron (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Megatron]] called off the Decepticons' advance (truth be told, he didn't seem to know or care about it), the Wreckers' plans were also cancelled. As was Impactor's life, as one of the Decepticons, [[Macabre]], had stayed behind to kill [[Emirate]] [[Xaaron]], and Impactor took the 'bullet' for him. Impactor named Springer his successor as he lay dying. {{storylink|Target: 2006}} <br /> <br /> Later, the team and Ultra Magnus were misled into trying to kill [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Optimus Prime]] upon his return to Cybertron. Decepticons had planted misinformation that Prime was in fact a Decepticon made up to ''look'' like Prime. Fortunately for the Wreckers' record, Magnus and Xaaron uncovered the truth before anyone could kill the Autobots' Greatest Leader. {{storylink|Distant Thunder!}} During his stay on Cybertron, Optimus Prime led the Wreckers on a number of fruitful raids on [[Decepticon fuel store]]s. {{storylink|Resurrection!}}<br /> <br /> [[File:Technician wreckers legion of the lost.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.95]]<br /> After Optimus Prime returned to Earth, [[Autobase]] in [[Kalis]] was rocked by a huge explosion caused by the venting of an active nuclear reactor. Xaaron told the Wreckers of Megatron's ancient plan to turn Cybertron into a vast mobile battle station and that Autobase was potentially built on top of the engine room. Springer led the Wreckers to try to find the entrance to the sub-terranean facility but they were unable to locate it. Upon their return Autobase was attacked by hoards of undead Transformers, including their former leader, Impactor. Once the Wreckers and Xaaron were imprisoned, [[Flame (Marvel)|Flame]] revealed himself to be behind the explosion, as well as the reanimation of the dead. Though shaken by recent events Springer managed to escape the cell, taking Impactor with him. The current Wrecker leader did enough to reawaken some sense of self in the zombified Impactor before reaching the surface, where he met Ultra Magnus and the [[Sparkabot|Sparkler Mini-Bots]]. Meanwhile, the other Wreckers had escaped and headed for the armory and, aided by a curious and vengeful Impactor, managed to reach the weapons necessary to defeat Flame's undead minions. With [[Trypticon (G1)|Trypticon]]'s assistance, the Wreckers broke through to the main control room, where Xaaron was preparing to sacrifice himself in order to reach the reactor shut down control. Under orders to leave, the Wreckers fought their way past more reanimated corpses, leaving Impactor to save Xaaron twice again, firstly by killing Flame and then entering the radioactive chamber himself to deactivate the reactor. Xaaron made it to safety and gave thanks for the bravest being he had ever met. {{storylink|Legion of the Lost!}} {{storylink|Meltdown!}}<br /> <br /> [[File:WreckingHavoc-yourfoe.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|Sandstorm and Broadside are on good terms with Galvy.]]<br /> In [[1988]] the Wreckers were tasked to bring down [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]]. Both Xaaron and Springer had concerns about the mission, but deemed it necessary due to the danger posed by the future Decepticon leader. The team transported through an unstable dimensional portal, unwittingly landing in a small mid-western town, to be confronted not only by Galvatron but also his two former lieutenants, [[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]] and [[Scourge (G1)|Scourge]]. Unable to fight all three Decepticons as well as defend the human population, Springer managed to lure Cyclonus and Scourge away. Faced with a choice of allowing Galvatron to escape or aid their leader the Wreckers chose to help Springer. Galvatron was able to escape but the Wreckers vowed to return to finish the job. {{storylink|Wrecking Havoc}}<br /> <br /> In an effort to reduce further risk to human life Xaaron sent an [[Advance Surveillance Unit]], consisting of Broadside, Sandstorm, and Inferno, to set up a reconnaissance base. Though their primary mission was to observe and not interfere, the two Wreckers and Inferno could not help but go to the aid of a local town when a [[Firebug (G1)|Firebug]] crash landed nearby and started multiple blazes. {{storylink|Firebug!}} <br /> <br /> [[File:Megatron wreckers time wars.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.66|The Wreckers look on as Megatron goes Dreamwave on them.]]<br /> The unit tracked Galvatron as he stockpiled equipment and supplies, and discovered his subterranean base. With space and time [[time rift|ripping themselves apart]] due to the future Decepticon's presence, Xaaron sent reinforcements in the shape of a Decepticon [[Decepticon heavy transport|spacecraft]] carrying the rest of the Wreckers and the [[Mayhem Attack Squad]], who had formed a crisis alliance. The two teams made their way to Galvatron's unguarded base and were able to walk straight in. Unfortunately Galvatron had formed his own alliance with [[Megatron (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Megatron]] (or at least, [[Straxus (G1)|his clone]]) and they attacked the two elite squads, who quickly began to fall beneath the might of the crazed duo. Topspin was one of the first to fall, victim of Megatron's [[fusion cannon]]. Cracks soon showed in the alliance as Springer and [[Carnivac (G1)|Carnivac]] almost came to blows, blaming each other for the disastrous plan. They were interrupted by Scourge and [[Ravage (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Ravage]], who had also allied themselves to Galvatron. Fortunately Springer was able to sow seeds of doubt about the cause of the space/time rift in Scourge's mind, distracting him. Springer then jumped him while Ravage was taken out by Carnivac. The Wreckers leader sounded the retreat and Carnivac reluctantly ordered his Mayhems to do the same. <br /> <br /> [[File:TimeWars-frakamm.jpg|thumb|GET OUT OF MY WAY!]]<br /> The teams re-grouped at the Decepticon ship with Galvatron and Megatron hot on their heels. Galvatron announced his arrival by destroying Sandstorm with his [[Particle cannon]]. An enraged Roadbuster fetched an experimental [[Pathblaster]] and managed to blow half of Galvatron's face off. However the weapon was unstable and exploded, killing Roadbuster before he could use it again. Galvatron was only further madenned by his injury, ripping off Twin Twist's head and blasting Rack'n'Ruin. The remaining Wreckers were only saved by the arrival of reinforcements of Autobots and Decepticons from both the future and present day. With most of their members offline and the rest injured, the Wreckers did not play any further part in the battle. {{storylink|Time Wars}}<br /> <br /> After the Time Wars, the few survivors (Springer, Broadside and Inferno) joined together with other &quot;outsiders&quot;—both Autobot and Decepticon. The Decepticon ship they had used to reach Earth was stolen by Megatron and they were seemingly abandoned by High Command. With these new circumstances they ceased to use the Wreckers title and formed part of the (aptly named) [[Survivors]]. {{storylink|Survivors!}}<br /> {{-}}<br /> <br /> ======Marvel UK future timelines======<br /> [[File:Rodimus technobots wreckers peace.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.66||...have granted me the right to join two Cybertronians in holy matrimony. You sure about your best man Magnus?]]<br /> In an alternate future of [[2510]], the Wreckers killed the last Decepticon in battle, signifying the end of the [[Great War (G1)|war]]. Upon learning this news, [[Hot Rod (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Rodimus Prime]] called together his warriors at Autobase to announce that he was stepping down as Autobot leader and selected Springer as his replacement. Triton, a Decepticon double agent who had infiltrated the ranks of the [[Technobot (G1)|Technobots]], sought to sow dissent in the Autobot ranks and questioned Rodimus's choice, suggesting that Ultra Magnus would make a better leader.<br /> <br /> The resulting argument quickly escalated when [[Scattershot (G1)|Scattershot]] shot Roadbuster, blowing his head clean off. Sandstorm retaliated by killing Triton and soon the Autobots had split into factions fighting a whole new war, to Rodimus Prime's great despair. {{storylink|Peace}}<br /> {{-}}<br /> <br /> '''Known members:'''<br /> {{collist|3|<br /> *[[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]]<br /> *[[Impactor (G1)|Impactor]] (first leader)<br /> *[[Inferno (G1)|Inferno]]<br /> *[[Rack'n'Ruin (G1)|Rack'n'Ruin]]<br /> *[[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]]<br /> *[[Sandstorm (G1)|Sandstorm]]<br /> *[[Springer (G1)|Springer]] (second leader)<br /> *[[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]]<br /> *[[Twin Twist]]<br /> *[[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> *Both Roadbuster and Whirl were absent during the Flame incident and initial Galvatron mission. Roadbuster reappears and dies during the Time Wars but Whirl is never seen again. As Springer states that the rest of the Wreckers are with him on the Decepticon heavy transport ship, this may indicate that Whirl either left the Wreckers or was killed in action.<br /> *Dialogue in &quot;[[Firebug!]]&quot; suggests Inferno was not a Wrecker at this point. Later, in &quot;[[Survivors!]]&quot; and an [[Transformers Annual 1991|annual bio]], he was considered an ex-Wrecker. There is no indication of when he joined, most likely prior to &quot;[[Time Wars]]&quot;.<br /> *Rack'n'Ruin and Inferno are missing from the alternate future roster in &quot;[[Peace]]&quot;.<br /> <br /> =====''Regeneration One''=====<br /> {{NoteRG1}}<br /> [[File:Wreckers loose ends.jpg|thumb|upright=1.8| [[Great War (G1)|Great War]]? What Great War? Sorry, must have missed the call to arms. Did you make a mess?]]<br /> Twenty-one years after the battle of [[Klo]], Springer led a team of soldiers known as the Wreckers. Loosely under the jurisdiction of [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Ultra Magnus]], the Wreckers were apparently separate from the standard [[Cybertronian Civil Defense]] rank-and-file. They stopped a terrorist act on Cybertron and later accompanied [[Kup (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Kup]] to visit planets affected by the Great War. On their first stop, Earth, they discovered it had been devastated some time ago. Before they had chance to fully take in the devastation their ship was promptly blown out of the sky by Megatron. {{storylink|Loose Ends, Part 1}}<br /> <br /> [[File:Wreckers loose ends 2.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.6]]<br /> The unit managed to bail out of the ship in escape pods, crash landing on Earth. Somewhat battered, the Wreckers had little chance to fully take stock before Whirl delivered the news that reanimated Decepticons were on their way. Heading out Springer decided to try to contact Cybertron and aid the safe approach of reinforcements. Leaving the injured at a safe distance the remaining Wreckers attempted to reach the [[Deep Space Network]] at [[Goldstone]]. Sandstorm, Roadbuster and Leadfoot tried to keep the zombie Decepticons distracted while Kup, Springer and Whirl made a dash for the transmitter. The former trio were not totally successful so Kup turned to assist to allow his teammates to send the message. Unfortunately he was taken by surprise by [[Skywarp (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Skywarp]], knocked unconscious and quickly taken to Megatron. Meanwhile, a group of human survivors stumbled across Rack'n'Ruin and the injured Wreckers. Assuming the worse the humans attempted to flee, Rack'n'Ruin tried to go after them but was held off by [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Circuit Smasher]] {{storylink|Loose Ends, Part 2}}<br /> <br /> Though initially distrustful, Circuit Smasher eventually allied himself with the Wreckers and explained how human interference with the [[Ark (G1)|Ark]] had led to the reactivation of Megatron. Somehow the Decepticon leader managed to turn the planet's defenses on itself, reactivated his fallen warriors and in a matter of hours had all but wiped out the Earth. Circuit Smasher took the Wreckers to meet [[G.B. Blackrock]] who told them that the Ark should be their key target as it formed the basis of Megatron's technology and defensive capabilities. However, before they could make any specific plans their meeting was interrupted by a call from Megatron who informed them that he had given Kup [[Scraplet]]s. {{storylink|Loose Ends, Part 3}}<br /> <br /> [[File:Wreckers loose ends 4.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4]]<br /> Springer once again split the Wreckers, while he, Sandstorm and Whirl went to meet Megatron the remaining bots and their human allies would assault the Ark. Both teams took heavy fire, Springer's squad were soon grounded by weight of numbers and the others got past the first wave of Ark defenses only to face a troupe of [[Guardian (Marvel)|Guardian Units]]. Megatron was about to execute Springer when Optimus Prime arrived with reinforcements, the distraction allowing the zombie Starscream to tell Kup to kill [[Ratchet (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Ratchet]]. {{storylink| Loose Ends, Part 4}}<br /> <br /> Prime demanded the Megatron let Springer go, however the Decepticon leader merely goaded his nemesis by glibly blasting Springer's head off at point blank range. Blinded with rage Prime attacked leading Megatron to reveal that he had programmed [[Aunty|Auntie]], the Ark's computer, to launch every missile on the planet once their battle was done. At the Ark the Wreckers kept the Guardians busy so that Circuit Smasher could deal with Auntie. Kup managed to arm himself and make his way to Megatron's [[battle sled]] to kill Ratchet and with him Megatron with whom the medic had become fused both in body and mind. Considering it a mercy killing Kup shot Ratchet giving Prime the chance he needed to rip out Megatron's [[Spark]]. Fortunately by this time Circuit Smasher had deactivated Auntie and the planet was saved from further destruction. {{storylink| Loose Ends, Part 5}}<br /> <br /> [[File:Kup fang destiny.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.9]]<br /> In addition to Springer's death, [[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]] and [[Leadfoot (G2)|Leadfoot]] were left in critical condition because of their injuries. {{storylink|Natural Selection, Part One}} After returning to Cybertron, {{storylink| Natural Selection, Part Five}} the Wreckers acted as a security force for [[Hot Rod (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Hot Rod]]. When a group of Neo-Decepticons led by [[Fang]] blockaded the bridge [[Auto-artery RG1]], Kup led the Wreckers to detain them. When Kup started to come to blows with Fang, Roadbuster pulled him aside, suggesting they do things the way Springer would have, going so far as suggesting that Kup ''himself'' was making things worse by giving the populace something to hate. As they argue, two Cybertronians try to sneak past the blockade, attacking Fang, and causing a fight to break out. {{storylink| Destiny, Part Two}}<br /> <br /> [[File:Wreckers destiny.jpg|thumb|upright=1.8]]<br /> The Wreckers' next foray into action came in the form of a raid. Remotely coordinated by Ultra Magnus, they raided [[Fort Scyk]] in order to find apprehend [[Soundwave (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Soundwave]] and his Neo-Decepticons. However, having anticipated this, the Decepticons had abandoned the place and wired it to explode. Unsurprisingly, all of the Wreckers survived virtually unscathed, and Kup proceeded to report in to Magnus on the situation. {{storylink|Destiny, Part Three}}<br /> <br /> When [[Bludgeon (G1)|Bludgeon]] launched an all out attack on Cybertron, Kup tried to convince [[Prowl (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Prowl]] to let the Wreckers take the front lines. Prowl refused, saying that the Wreckers needed to be applied strategically, he just didn't know ''where''. This frustrated Kup. {{storylink|Destiny, Part Four}}<br /> <br /> The Wreckers were eventually dispatched aboard a ship to infiltrate Bludgeon's base of operations the [[Warworld]]. Bludgeon, fully aware of their presence, launched a solo attack on them, slaughtering them with his mastery of [[Metallikato]]. As the Wreckers tried to stand against him, Kup escaped to destroy the reservoir of Matrix energy powering the Warworld, but Bludgeon, having swiftly defeated all of the other Wreckers, pursues him. After catching him, Bludgeon proceeded to beat Kup to within an inch of his life, and the old-timer was only saved by the arrival of the newly christened [[Hot Rod (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Rodimus Prime]]. As the new Prime soundly defeated Bludgeon and disabled the ship, Kup, along with his fellow Wreckers and Rodimus fled the ship as it was destroyed. {{storylink|Destiny, Part Five}}<br /> <br /> [[File:Wreckers war to end all wars.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.8]]<br /> When a more successful attack against the Autobots was launched by [[Jhiaxus (G2)|Jhiaxus]], and Rodimus, along with a good number of the Autobot's forces were captured, the Wreckers (with Broadside now fully recovered from his wounds on Earth) carried on the fight on their own, single-handedly fending off thousands of [[Cybertronian (faction)|Cybertronians]] while also desabalizing Jhiaxus's [[Hub (G2)|Hub Network]]. All while looking totally badass. When Rodimus and the others managed to free themselves, Autobot and Wrecker alike fled from the Hub as it began to disintegrate. {{storylink|The War to End All Wars, Part 4}}<br /> <br /> Returning to Cybertron, the Autobots find the planet abandoned. Or so it seemed, as they were suddenly attacked by [[Shadow-leech]]es. As the Autobots held off the monsters, Perceptor came to the horrifying revelation that the Shadow-leeches were actually Cybertron's missing inhabitants, having been transformed by the [[Dark Matrix|Matrix's dark energy]]. As the Autobots' forces split up to cover multiple fronts, the Wreckers travel to Earth to recruit their human allies and team up to finally the up all lose ends. Upon successfully recruiting the humans, the Wreckers return through the space bridge they arrived in, taking the humans to Nebulos, where they dispatched a rampaging [[Fortress Maximus (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Fortress Maximus]], who had been possessed by the corrupted Matrix entity. Elsewhere, Rodimus defeated the Dark Matrix entity by sealing off their own universe from the rest of the multiverse, disconnecting them from Primus for good, causing the entity to die. However, without a connection to Primus, the Transformers' lifespans became decidedly finite, and over the eons all of the remaining Autobots and Decepticons, including the Wreckers, eventually died out from old age, a thing previously impossible due to their now-severed connection with Primus. {{storylink|The War to End All Wars, Part 5}}<br /> <br /> '''Known members:'''<br /> {{collist|3|<br /> *[[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]]<br /> *[[Kup (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Kup]] (second leader)<br /> *[[Leadfoot (G2)|Leadfoot]]<br /> *[[Rack'n'Ruin (G1)|Rack'n'Ruin]]<br /> *[[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]]<br /> *[[Sandstorm (G1)|Sandstorm]]<br /> *[[Springer (G1)|Springer]] (first leader)<br /> *[[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]]<br /> *[[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> =====''Transformers '84''=====<br /> [[File:Wreckers secrets and lies.jpg|thumb|upright=1.57]]<br /> When [[Punch (G1)|Punch]] had brought the news that [[Straxus (G1)|Straxus]] sought to reactivate [[Project Dreadnought]], he requested a dedicated wrecking crew from Ultra Magnus. Walking in at roughly the same time, Impactor and Roadbuster had a wave of inspiration. Rallying together some heavy-hitters, Impactor later retrieved Punch and introduced him to the Wreckers. {{storylink|Secrets &amp; Lies issue 3|Secrets &amp; Lies #3}}<br /> <br /> [[File:Wreckers punch terrorcons secrets and lies.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.7]]<br /> For their first mission as a team, the Wreckers deployed to the nerve centre of Project Dreadnought and split up to their designated holding positions until Impactor could think of an appropriate signal. When they encountered the [[combiner]] [[Abominus (G1)|Abominus]], left by Straxus to defend the site, he coined the phrase &quot;Wreckers! ''um''... wreck... ...and rule!&quot; and the team went to work with Topspin and Twin Twist heading underground while the others battled the gestalt. After Rack'n'Ruin managed to take Abominus down with a [[Hammer (weapon)|hammer]] to the face, Impactor and the others piled into battle with the [[Terrorcon (G1)|Terrorcons]] and [[Sinnertwin (G1)|Sinnertwin]] managed to bite off Impactor's hand while he was holding a [[harpoon]] gun, which went badly for Sinnertwin. This bought the Jumpstarters enough time to lay enough explosives to demolish the control centre, and the Wreckers returned to base victorious. {{storylink|Secrets &amp; Lies issue 4|Secrets &amp; Lies #4}}<br /> <br /> '''Known members:'''<br /> {{collist|3|<br /> *[[Impactor (G1)|Impactor]]<br /> *[[Rack'n'Ruin (G1)|Rack'n'Ruin]]<br /> *[[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]]<br /> *[[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]]<br /> *[[Twin Twist]]<br /> *[[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> ====3H comics====<br /> [[File:Wreckers3hlineup.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Now taking applications for: [[Cyclonus (G1)|Traitors]], [[Fractyl|Wimps]], and [[Alpha Trion (G1)|People Who Shouldn't Be Here]].]]<br /> After the end of the war, the [[Maximal High Council]] called the Wreckers back into service to protect the fragile peace that existed between [[Maximal]] and [[Predacon (BW)|Predacon]]. They were originally stationed in Delta Three within the [[Wrecker Command Base]], but would eventually relocate to Delta Five {{storylink|Apelinq's War Journals}} on the far side of Cybertron. {{storylink|Departure}} The war veteran and gifted engineer Apelinq was assigned to be a squad commander of this new iteration of the legendary Autobot strike force, and several of his former comrades were also drafted. [[Hot Rod (G1)|Rodimus]] was also added to the ranks of the Wreckers in a commanding role. {{storylink|Disclosure|Apelinq's extended profile}} By 316 A.U., there were at least seven Wrecker Squadrons. {{storylink|The Wreckers: Finale Part 1}}<br /> <br /> All but Rodimus and Apelinq were lost to [[Megatron (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity|Megatron]]'s [[Vehicon (BM)|Vehicon forces]] and its [[transformation virus]]; by the time the foe was identified, many of the Wreckers had already fallen and Rodimus took the remainders bar Apelinq in a last-ditch strike in 316.247 AU. Rodimus' Matrix history left him immune to the virus and meant Apelinq could develop an inoculant, and meant they had a chance to find and save any survivors. Luckily, their depleted ranks were filled when a new horde of battle-hardened survivors—some brought by [[Primal Prime]] from the time-lost [[Beast Wars (event)|Beast Wars]]—surfaced in [[Polyhex]]. Around this time is when the team relocated from Delta Three to Delta Five, and Prime himself took command after an incident that sent Apelinq back in time. {{storylink|Apelinq's War Journals}} Apelinq eventually made it back via his own devices. In this troubled time, [[Decepticon]]s and [[Predacon (BW)|Predacons]] were also accepted into their ranks, including the Great War veterans [[Skywarp (G1)|Skywarp]] and [[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]]. {{storylink|Departure}}<br /> <br /> [[Cryotek (Universe)|Cryotek]] and the [[Quintesson]]s plotted to exploit this: the [[Oracle (BM)|Oracle]] [[shell program]] was placed on [[Vector Sigma]], allowing them to give false commands to any survivors and have Cybertron turned [[technorganic]], easier to conquer. Cyclonus was secretly working for them! {{storylink|Betrayal}} {{storylink|Disclosure}} (The technorganic shift was, in fact, part of [[Primus]]'s plan) {{storylink|Wreckers: Finale Part II}} The Wreckers were part of the many groups conned, sent off on a quest that would require fighting their way through the [[Vehicon (BM)|Vehicon]] guards at [[Shuttle Complex Ohm]]. A staggered batch of reinforcements turned a likely trap into victory {{storylink|Departure}} to the annoyance of the enemy conspirators, but Cyclonus successfully bombed their ship in secret to impair them. <br /> <br /> Five Wreckers died because of [[Packrat]] cowardly sacrificing them. This contributed to growing tension in the team. They made it to [[Akalo|Archa Nine]], home of the [[Divine Light]] power source that Cryotek coveted, and the team were so focused on Packrat that they didn't see Cyclonus coming! With the power source gone, the Wreckers could pretty much just mope. {{storylink|Betrayal}} Primal Prime took them on another quest, thinking he had an Oracle vision, and they found themselves on a planet where the Quintesson [[Al-Badur]] lived in exile. There, they learned of the true threat (and that ''Vector Sigma'' had sent Prime the message) and they'd need to get the hell back to Cybertron! {{storylink|Disclosure}}<br /> <br /> [[File:Chromutated.jpg|left|upright=1.4|thumb|&quot;We don't ''like'' out-of-towners!&quot;&lt;br&gt;&quot;WE PUNCH WHAT WE DON'T UNDERSTAND!!&quot;]]<br /> The Wreckers made it back in time to find the newly technorganic planet was facing an all-out Quintesson invasion and they joined the army in fighting back. They took the fight to Cryotek, who successfully used the Divine Light to gain access to Primus' power; luckily, his first act of demigodhood was to accidentally merge Apelinq and Primal Prime into [[Sentinel Maximus]]! {{storylink|The Wreckers: Finale Part 1}} While the two leaders threw down, the rest of the Wreckers fought Cyclonus, [[Chro]], and the Sharkticons. Mid-battle, [[Tap-Out (Universe)|Tap-Out]] and Skywarp went [[Cauldron|missing]] but the Wreckers still triumphed over these other foes. In the end, Cryotek was defeated by forcing him into an extradimensional portal and the Divine Light's divine power was drained off. The cost was Rodimus' life and Sentinel Maximus being lost along with Cryotek.<br /> <br /> The battle over, they mourned their lost comrades and went their separate ways in a new, peacetime Cybertron. {{storylink|Wreckers: Finale Part II}} (Well, ''briefly'' peacetime) {{storylink|Transformers: Universe (comic)|Universe}}<br /> <br /> '''Known members:'''<br /> {{collist|3|<br /> *[[Apelinq (BM)|Apelinq]]<br /> *[[Arcee (G1)|Arcee]]<br /> *[[CatSCAN]]<br /> *[[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]]<br /> *[[Devcon (G1)|Devcon]]<br /> *[[Dillo]]<br /> *[[Fractyl]]<br /> *[[Mol]]<br /> *[[Packrat]]<br /> *[[Primal Prime]]<br /> *[[Ramulus]]<br /> *[[Rav (BM)|Rav]]<br /> *[[Hot Rod (G1)|Rodimus]]<br /> *[[Rotorbolt (Universe)|Rotorbolt]]<br /> *[[Sentinel Maximus]]<br /> *[[Skywarp (G1)|Skywarp]]<br /> *[[Sonar (BW)|Sonar]]<br /> *[[Spittor (BW)|Spittor]]<br /> *[[Tap-Out (Universe)|Tap-Out]]<br /> *[[Tigatron]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> ====Dreamwave ''Generation One'' continuity====<br /> [[File:Wreckersdw.jpg|upright=1.4|thumb|The Wreckers: Featuring Ultra Magnus' Crotch.]]<br /> The Wreckers split from the Autobot forces after the disappearance of [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] in a [[space bridge]] explosion. Led by Springer, they clashed with [[Ratbat (G1)|Ratbat]]'s [[Ultracon]]s in the [[Tagan Heights]] for a time {{storylink|Transformers: War Within: The Dark Ages|War Within: The Dark Ages}} before reuniting with the Autobots and the [[Lightning Strike Coalition]] immediately prior to the Age of Internment. {{storylink|Transformers: War Within: The Age of Wrath|War Within: The Age of Wrath}}<br /> <br /> '''Known members:'''<br /> {{collist|3|<br /> *[[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]]<br /> *[[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]]<br /> *[[Sandstorm (G1)|Sandstorm]]<br /> *[[Springer (G1)|Springer]] (leader)<br /> *[[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]]<br /> *[[Twin Twist]]<br /> *[[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> Later on, during Shockwave's reign on Cybertron, the Wreckers whittled down to small but elite task force of Autobots dedicated to keeping the peace wherever (and however) necessary. The [[Triple Changer]]s left the group and Ultra Magnus stepped in to lead.<br /> <br /> '''Known members:'''<br /> {{collist|3|<br /> *Roadbuster<br /> *Topspin<br /> *Twin Twist<br /> *[[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] (leader)<br /> *Whirl<br /> }}<br /> <br /> When the [[Stunticon (G1)|Stunticons]] were released from imprisonment in Cybertron's [[Detention Banks]], the Wreckers responded in kind. This, however, was after [[Menasor (G1)|Menasor]] had already wiped out the [[Omnibot (G1)|Omnibots]] and defeated [[Defensor (G1)|Defensor]]. In the battle, both Whirl and Roadbuster were apparently killed before Ultra Magnus took charge and brought Menasor down. {{storylink|War and Peace}}<br /> <br /> ====2005 IDW continuity====<br /> {{quote|What do you '''mean''', it's a lost cause? Of '''course''' it's a lost cause. That's why we're '''here!'''|[[Springer (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Springer]], [[Stormbringer issue 2|Stormbringer #2]]}}<br /> <br /> {{quote|They give the Autobots something to ''believe in!'' And it's all thanks to [[Ironfist (G1)|you]]. Without Fisitron and his datalogs, the Wreckers would be nothing more than a bunch of ''thugs with a death wish.''|[[Verity Carlo]], &quot;[[Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 5|Last Stand of the Wreckers #5]]}}<br /> <br /> [[File:Wreckersstormbringer.jpg|left|upright=1.7|thumb|The IDW Wreckers are so hardcore they don't even need a spaceship. Except for when they [[Xantium (G1)|do]].]]<br /> The Wreckers are the Autobots who get called in when the odds of success are non-existent, but the job needs to be done anyway. The origin of the group is unknown, and for the longest time their existence was no more than a rumor, even among the ranks of their fellow Autobots. {{storylink|Zero Point}} Because of the extreme nature of their missions, the Wreckers have a low survival rate, around 38% to 42%, depending on who you ask. {{storylink|Dead Men's Boots}} All of the founding members have died (with one [[Valve|deliberately ignored exception]]), and the group's roster has gone through over eighteen iterations. Although every active member isn't always present for every mission, Springer once said Wreckers only leave the group ''for good'' in three ways: death, dementia, or dishonorable discharge. In fact, the one rule this &quot;No Rules&quot; team abides by is The Veto: any Wrecker can remove any other Wrecker from the roster at any time. {{storylink|Interiors}}<br /> <br /> The Wreckers' exploits have been lionized in the eyes of the rank and file by their unofficial biographer, &quot;[[Ironfist (G1)|Fisitron]]&quot;, and his ''[[Wreckers: Declassified]]'' datalogs. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 1|Last Stand of the Wreckers #1}} Before his death, Fisitron produced 331 datalog adventures for his heroes, cobbled together from data requests, mission reports and [[Autopedia]] bios about the Wreckers and their history. Many Autobots in the fleet subscribed to Fisitron's datalogs. They were an inspiration to the Autobots, heroes of daring exploits who never leave each other behind and always save the day... or so ''Wreckers: Declassified'' and the official line would tell them. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 5|Last Stand of the Wreckers #5}} {{storylink|Bullets}} In reality, the ''Declassifieds'' were full of embellishments and were quite sanitised. The dirtier the war got, the dirtier the Wreckers got, and they were always ''particularly'' dirty. Before they'd gone public, at least one Decepticon was caught wandering around, gibbering about Impactor's harpoons, before killing himself. {{storylink|Zero Point}}<br /> <br /> Among the many adventures chronicled by Fisitron were the Wreckers' battles with [[The Anguished]], an event involving Broadside and some [[Rada Mor|psychic explosives]], {{storylink|Bullets}} Impactor rescuing Xaaron from the [[Sonic Canyons]] (at which point he coined the battle cry of &quot;Wreck and rule!&quot;, while flying a [[sky-sled]] into a drilling platform) {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 2|Last Stand of the Wreckers #2}} and the [[Siege of T'Muk]]. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 1|Last Stand of the Wreckers #1}} Another episode involved Impactor rescuing hostages on the verge of an event horizon. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 2|Last Stand of the Wreckers #2}}<br /> <br /> [[File:RulesofDisengagement-BlackShadowvsWreckers.jpg|thumb|upright=2.2|right|Oh, and remember when Black Shadow blasted us all new ones? Good times.]]<br /> They were founded by [[Threnody]] {{storylink|Sins of the Wreckers issue 1|Sins of the Wreckers #1}} and [[Valve]] was part of his first squad. {{storylink|Zero Point}} The earliest version we've seen in action was the 11th iteration, led by Crest and consisting of Hyperion, Impactor, Valve, Piston, Rack, and at least one more member. They battled the Warriors Elite genocide specialist named [[Black Shadow (Victory)|Black Shadow]], and three Wreckers died in combat, including their leader Crest and Piston. {{storylink|Rules of Disengagement (issue)|Rules of Disengagement}} Hyperion, a known former Wreckers leader, likely succeeded Crest as commander.<br /> <br /> The roster continued to evolve, as Hyperion stepped down for reasons unknown, and Impactor went on to become the team's longest serving member and leader. The last surviving founding member, Valve, abandoned the Autobot cause and joined up with the Decepticons. He was responsible for founding and leading the Wreckers' opposite number, [[Squadron X]]. His betrayal cut so deep that the Wreckers collectively refuse to acknowledge his history with the group. {{storylink|Zero Point}} The reason for Valve's betrayal hasn't been explained, although considering that around this time the Wreckers recruited Whirl (a loose cannon indirectly responsible for the death of Valve's brothers, [[Wheelarch]] and [[Springarm]]), one could make an educated guess.<br /> <br /> [[File:RequiemoftheWreckers WreckersWelcome.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.5|WELCOME TO DIE!]]<br /> Following the battle of [[Sherma Bridge]] and after the public became aware of the Wreckers' existence, Impactor recruited Springer into the 17th iteration of the team. {{storylink|Transformers: Requiem of the Wreckers|Requiem of the Wreckers}} Springer rose quickly in the ranks, becoming Impactor's first officer and nicknamed &quot;his little green circuit booster&quot; after his knack for rallying the team's spirits. Unfortunately, the horrors of war began to weigh on Springer, as he saw the Wreckers straying further and further from the [[Autobot Code]]. He ignored the &quot;slips&quot; for some time, then began telling himself at least he was making sure (increasingly fewer) Decepticons were still alive in incredible pain or buried rather than being dead, and then he began saying that at least it wasn't ''him'' brutalising prisoners; but as Impactor's hatred of Squadron X became more bittered and obsessive, Springer's resolve began to shake. A watching Prowl began waiting hundreds of years for an excuse to bring them in. And eventually, the Wreckers began to outright ignore threats, even as grim as the [[Black Epoch]] and the ongoing [[Simanzi Massacre]], so they could continue tracking Squadron X. {{storylink|Zero Point}}<br /> <br /> After Springer was recruited, another Wrecker named Blocker succumbed to dementia and began cannibalizing his best friend. He was removed from the roster and replaced by Sandstorm. {{storylink|Zero Point}}<br /> <br /> [[File:LastStandoftheWreckers4-triumphoverevil.jpg|right|thumb|upright=1.66|This roster feels familiar.]]<br /> Twenty years before the [[Surge (event)|Surge]], the vendetta between Impactor and Squadron X came to an end on the neutral planet of [[Pova]]. The roster by this time included Springer, Roadbuster, Sandstorm, Whirl, Broadside, and the now conjoined Rack'n'Ruin. After being pursued across nine star systems, Squadron X was caught off-guard refueling their ship, the ''[[Pale Fire]]''. A battle ensued, and Impactor made the winning move by shooting through trapped Springer's back, taking the Squadron by surprise. The entire roster was captured and fitted with inhibitor claws by the Wreckers. Impactor proudly called in his catch to [[Autobot High Command]], but [[Prowl (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Prowl]] told him the unthinkable: they had to let Squadron X go. A non-interference pact made with the Povans made the capture illegal and a potential political nightmare, so Prowl ordered Impactor to release the Decepticons. Instead, Impactor took Roadbuster's gun and put himself in a room with the prisoners, executing each of them one at a time with a bullet through the brain module. Springer was nearly crippled by injuries he suffered during the fight, but as he dragged himself over to room, he saw Impactor standing over the bodies. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 5|Last Stand of the Wreckers #5}}<br /> <br /> Springer reported his superior officer to High Command, and Impactor was arrested under the [[Tyrest Accord]] for violating the Autobot Code and killing helpless prisoners. At the [[Aequitas]] trials, Springer's testimony sank any chances Impactor had of release, and he was sentenced to [[Garrus-9]]. A cover story was released that Impactor had been locked away for selling circuit boosters to the [[Chomskian]]s. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 2|Last Stand of the Wreckers #2}}<br /> <br /> [[File:Animals-RadarGatoraider.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|left|&quot;FINISH HIM!&quot;]]<br /> Springer became the Wrecker leader after Impactor's arrest. He'd been asked to by the other Wreckers and thought that he could correct their increasingly immoral course; what he didn't know was that the other members were trying to cover up their collusion with Impactor's murders. They lavished praise on Springer in the hopes that he wouldn't demand they be prosecuted, too, and the hoodwinked Springer gave such a clear, unambiguous witness statement to the guilt-reading [[Aequitas]] that none of the others had to be plugged in to give an account. {{storylink|Zero Point}} Some time after Springer took command, Rack'n'Ruin lost their lives. {{storylink|Dead Men's Boots}} Despite the change in leadership, the Wreckers continued to operate in a brutal capacity, maintaining their fearsome reputation among Decepticons. In a particularly-violent raid on a squad led by [[Krok (G1)|Krok]], Roadbuster- high on [[Syk]], tore out [[Radar]]'s spine and made him ''eat it''. {{storylink|Animals}} <br /> <br /> Decades later, the Wreckers were assigned to [[Varas Centralus]] after the Decepticon [[Infiltration protocol|infiltration unit]] on that planet went to [[Phase Sixer|Phase Six]]. They were pulled out and sent back to [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] at the order of [[Optimus Prime (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Optimus Prime]] when the Autobot leader suspected that [[Thunderwing (G1)|Thunderwing]] might have been behind the disappearance of the [[Calabi-Yau]]. {{storylink|Stormbringer issue 2|Stormbringer #2}} The Wreckers arrived just in time to save [[Nosecone (G1)|Nosecone]] and [[Afterburner (G1)|Afterburner]]. They then proceeded to take [[Bludgeon (G1)|Bludgeon]]'s team apart without breaking a sweat. {{storylink|Stormbringer issue 3|Stormbringer #3}} Thunderwing was ''slightly'' more challenging, but the Wreckers suffered no apparent casualties. {{storylink|Stormbringer issue 4|Stormbringer #4}}<br /> <br /> [[File:SpotlightSideswipe ThunderwingVSWreckers.jpg|right|upright=1.6|thumb|]]<br /> When Thunderwing popped up again guarding a cave on [[Corata-Vaz]], Optimus Prime sent for the team once again. {{storylink|Spotlight: Cyclonus}} While they did not succeed in stopping Thunderwing themselves, they managed to survive until he was rendered inert by [[Jetfire (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Jetfire]]. {{storylink|Spotlight: Sideswipe}}<br /> <br /> Sometime later, some of the Wreckers were captured by the Decepticons. They were rescued by the remaining Wreckers, now led by [[Kup (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Kup]], [[Perceptor (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Perceptor]], and [[Drift (G1)|Drift]], who was acting independently. After this, Kup decided to form a new team that included Wreckers [[Springer (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Springer]] and [[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]]. {{storylink|Spotlight: Drift}}<br /> <br /> [[File:LastStandoftheWreckers1-newrecruits.jpg|thumb|upright=1.45|left|&quot;What's your name, soldier?&quot;&lt;br&gt;&quot;Parts, sir! Private Parts!&quot;]]<br /> After the great push by Megatron, Kup and Perceptor were made into Wreckers, with Ultra Magnus and [[Verity Carlo]] providing them with transport. Springer began to rebuild the Wreckers, compiling a list of potential recruits and sending them to Prowl for approval. Prowl substituted [[Ironfist (G1)|Ironfist]] in over Springer's choice of [[Skyfall (G1)|Skyfall]], but the other picks were given the green light. {{storylink|Out of Bullets}} Along with Ironfist, Wrecker reservists [[Guzzle (G1)|Guzzle]], [[Pyro (G1)|Pyro]], and [[Rotorstorm (G1)|Rotorstorm]] were added to the roster. Springer was becoming weary of assembling these teams, only to see them blown apart. <br /> <br /> The first mission by the new team was to travel to [[Garrus-9]] and bring it back under Autobot control. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 1|Last Stand of the Wreckers #1}} After the arrival of a battered Impactor, however, they discovered that the sociopathic [[Overlord (Masterforce)|Overlord]] had seized control of the facility and the whole place had gone mental. A report from Prowl also stated they needed to find &quot;[[Aequitas]]&quot;. Splitting into two teams, the Wreckers made planetfall {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 2|Last Stand of the Wreckers #2}} and soon became separated from each other. Perceptor's team were tasked to find Aequitas, but Springer abruptly changed strategy and split his group into two: one to find the prisoners, the other to &quot;get help&quot; from a maximum security cell. Perceptor's team succeeded—albeit with the loss of Rotorstorm to Overlord—but Springer, Impactor and Twin Twist were captured. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 3|Last Stand of the Wreckers #3}}<br /> <br /> [[File:LastStandoftheWreckers5- Ironfist Perceptor Verity.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6|right|]]<br /> Topspin willingly sacrificed himself to activate Aequitas, simultaneously killing Twin Twist due to their branched spark. Kup and Guzzle failed to find the help they were looking for, but managed to save Springer and Impactor from death by torture. As Springer's team faced down Overlord himself, the other Wreckers finished their mission by downloading Aequitas's data into Ironfist. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 4|Last Stand of the Wreckers #4}} Perceptor's group then went to aid the others in the battle against Overlord, with Pyro sacrificing himself in the process. Overlord effortlessly defeated most of the remaining Wreckers, but was eventually taken down thanks to Ironfist's connection to Aequitas. Garrus-9 was liberated, and miraculously, no further Wreckers had been killed in the fight with Overlord... though Springer was in a critical condition and Ironfist succumbed to a workplace injury and died on the way home. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 5|Last Stand of the Wreckers #5}}<br /> <br /> Convinced that their leader, Springer, was a goner, Whirl used Roadbuster's [[Sparkeater (weapon)|Sparkeater]] to attempt to euthanize Springer. Instead he was caught in the act by Roadbuster and kicked out of the Wreckers. {{storylink|Interiors}} [[Rung (G1)|Rung]] later suggested to Roadbuster that reading something emotional could reactivate the leader of the Wreckers, so Roadbuster read datalogs from the ''Wreckers: Declassified'', to no avail. However, after Roadbuster confessed to Springer what the other Wreckers felt about what Impactor did, and called Springer their best leader, the comatose Autobot began showing signs of life. {{storylink|Zero Point}} <br /> <br /> Pardoned after Garrus-9, Impactor continued to wreck with Guzzle. The latter became increasingly blood-thirsty and large, and even Impactor, who'd made progress on giving up his overly violent ways, succumbed again.{{storylink|Escape (G1)|Escape}}<br /> <br /> [[File:Sins of the Wreckers2-everybody's unhappy.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.4|Ha, you expected that cool splash of the group from ''Sins'' #1? Tough luck, buster, you get a more accurate depiction of the Wreckers!]]<br /> Five years after Garrus-9, Prowl was abducted by the insane [[Tarantulas (BW)|Tarantulas]] and to get him back, a rejuvenated Springer assembled a new Wreckers team out of old guys and whoever happened to be around. For most members, this was more about keeping Prowl's secrets like the Aequitas data out of the public eye. {{storylink|Sins of the Wreckers issue 1|Sins of the Wreckers #1}} In true Wreckers fashion, this went horribly wrong for most people involved and the team were rapidly faced with their own psychological issues: Kup learning how he'd killed Autobots while mad, Guzzle in constant battle fury, and Roadbuster proving still willing to torture. Backing Tarantulas up were [[Mayhem Attack Squad|Mayhem]], whose leader [[Carnivac (G1)|Carnivac]] felt Springer should be with them. {{storylink|Sins of the Wreckers issue 2|Sins of the Wreckers #2}} Half the team invaded the [[Noisemaze]] to reach [[Tor|Tarantulas' base]] and were immediately defeated by its maddening environment, with the exception of Verity (human) and the frequency-blocking Hubcap. The latter was then seen with Tarantulas, while Springer, Arcee, and Roadbuster were plugged into the guilt-extracting [[Impetus]] to relive their worst sins.<br /> <br /> Impactor and Kup, meanwhile, had gone back to Debris: Impactor knew a little about the Noisemaze and had a 'backdoor' to it buried under his own in-waiting grave! {{storylink|Sins of the Wreckers issue 3|Sins of the Wreckers #3}}<br /> <br /> While in Impetus, Roadbuster relived the [[Roadbuster affair]], where he killed his assigned cadets in the name of [[Mortilus]], who spoke to him as a voice in his head. In reality, the voice was Tarantulas, shrunken down to a tiny size to whisper in his ear. One surviving cadet was Hubcap, who was incensed that Roadbuster served minimal time for his crimes, and fell in with Tarantulas to help punish those responsible, including Prowl. Verity revealed she is dying due to exposure from Aequitas' radiation and blackmailed Prowl as a cry for help. Impactor, Guzzle and Kup used a space portal to drag ''Debris'' into the Noisemaze and collapse it, while rescuing their comrades. Inside, they battled the Mayhems, including Tidal Wave. Hubcap had a change of heart and freed the captive Wreckers, who attacked Tarantulas while Prowl went with Hubcap back to ''Debris''. Roadbuster smashed into Tarantulas and they both fell out a window. In the confusion, Tarantulas shrunk and buried himself inside Roadbuster's head, expanding to full size and killing him. Prowl is talked out of killing Hubcap due to his possession of the Aequitas data, just before Impactor did the deed, as the info was just too dangerous for Hubcap to possess. As the Wreckers planned to blow up the Noisemaze and destroy all of Tarantulas's inventions, the spider returned and confronted them. {{storylink|Sins of the Wreckers issue 4|Sins of the Wreckers #4}} <br /> <br /> Using mass displacement, Tarantulas grew to massive size, while shrinking the Tor itself down to pocket size so that he could safely transport the facility out of the collapsing Noisemaze. He then turned on Arcee, Verity, and Prowl, gloating over how he healed Verity's illness purely to prove his intellect to Prowl. Springer planted explosives, while sending Impactor to deliver the Obtenteum and aid the others. Impactor revealed it was not Prowl who pushed Tarantulas into the Noisemaze all those years ago, but Impactor himself. At the sound of Springer's voice crackling over Impactor's comm, Tarantulas realized that Ostaros was not dead, but was now Springer. Tarantulas forgot his vengeance and instead climbed into the pit to reunite with his child. Prowl and Verity took the Obtenteum while the others battled Tarantulas. <br /> <br /> [[File:Sins05-guzzledies.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.25|Dementia, dishonorable discharge, death.]]<br /> While Tidal Wave punched his way through ''Debris'', coffins spilled out and Verity was brought to tears as Ironfist's body landed right in front of her. Guzzle used his own cannon to blast himself up into the air, jamming the Obtenteum into Tidal Wave's mouth and driving him mad. This forced Carnivac to unwittingly play into the Wreckers' hands by using his Outlier power to forcibly convert Tidal Wave to whale mode. The g-forces of the giant's transformation—amplified by the Obtenteum, were the last push needed to trigger the Noisemaze's complete and irrevocable collapse. Arcee and Impactor escaped while Tarantulas leaped into the pit after Springer. Springer attacked and could no longer transmit his part of the call-and-response signal, forcing Impactor, with the utmost reluctance, to press the button to set off the explosives. Aboard the damaged ''Debris'' Guzzle threatened to kill Kup and Prowl as revenge for the deaths of his friends on [[Tsiehshi]] and Prowl's crimes. Impactor was forced to kill Guzzle to save them. Prowl ran back inside the Noisemaze before it collapsed and saved Springer's life. Kup and Arcee returned to Optimus Prime's ranks on Earth while Impactor took up Carnivac on his offer to join Mayhem, joining their crusade to bring down those in power who use 'bots like them as pawns. Back in Nome, Alaska, Verity and Springer stared up happily at the Northern Lights, enjoying the normalcy while it lasted. {{storylink|Sins of the Wreckers issue 5|Sins of the Wreckers #5}}<br /> <br /> [[File:RequiemoftheWreckers Wrookies.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.2|]]<br /> Springer and Verity lived on their own for a bit, with Springer using his time to remotely train new Wreckers cadets, but the two were soon dragged into a new plot by Carnivac and Mayhem. After learning of Impactor's terrorist actions as part of Mayhem, Springer became disillusioned again by his former commander, but the two teamed up to save the kidnapped Verity from the survived Tarantulas and Overlord. To prevent Overlord from going back in time with Tarantulas' [[Timemaze]] portal, Impactor sacrificed himself to give Springer the opportunity to defeat the Phase-Sixer once and for all. With Tarantulas also having died and Mayhem in shambles, Springer decided to use the Timemaze to travel back and attempt to rewrite history so the war would never begin. He bid farewell to Verity and sent a message to his cadets, as well as all surviving Wreckers before he left. Springer begged them to honor the Wreckers' bloodstained legacy by forgetting it and stepped through the portal with the final advice &quot;Wreck the past, Rule your future.&quot; {{storylink|Transformers: Requiem of the Wreckers|Requiem of the Wreckers}}<br /> {{-}}<br /> <br /> '''Known members:'''<br /> {{collist|3|<br /> *[[Arcee (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Arcee]] (by association)<br /> *[[Blocker (G1)|Blocker]]<br /> *[[Breacher (G1)|Breacher]] (trainee)<br /> *[[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]]<br /> *[[Bulkhead (G1)|Bulkhead]] (trainee)<br /> *[[Crest]] (second known leader)<br /> *[[Guzzle (G1)|Guzzle]]<br /> *[[Hubcap (G1)|Hubcap]]<br /> *[[Hyperion (G1)|Hyperion]] (third known leader)<br /> *[[Impactor (G1)|Impactor]] (fourth known leader)<br /> *[[Ironfist (G1)|Ironfist]]<br /> *[[Kup (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Kup]] <br /> *[[Perceptor (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Perceptor]]<br /> *[[Piston (Wrecker)|Piston]]<br /> *[[Pyro (G1)|Pyro]]<br /> *[[Rack'n'Ruin (G1)|Rack'n'Ruin]]<br /> *[[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]]<br /> *[[Rotorstorm (G1)|Rotorstorm]]<br /> *[[Sandstorm (G1)|Sandstorm]]<br /> *[[Scoop (G1)|Scoop]]<br /> *[[Sixknight]]&lt;ref&gt;See [[Transformers: Requiem of the Wreckers#Errors|Requiem of the Wreckers]] under &quot;Errors&quot; for details&lt;/ref&gt; (trainee)<br /> *[[Springer (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Springer]] (fifth known leader)<br /> *[[Stakeout (G1)|Stakeout]] (by association)<br /> *[[Strongarm (G1)|Strongarm]] (trainee)<br /> *[[Threnody]] (first known leader)<br /> *[[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]]<br /> *[[Twin Twist]]<br /> *[[Valve]]<br /> *[[Verity Carlo]]<br /> *[[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]]<br /> }}<br /> {{-}}<br /> <br /> ====''Cloud''====<br /> The Wreckers of [[Cloud World]] were a special Autobot unit tasked with defending the entire world of space-time from dangerous threats. Numerous harsh missions caused many of them to develop rather bad tempers.<br /> <br /> '''Known members:'''<br /> {{collist|3|<br /> *[[Ironfist (G1)|Ironfist]]<br /> *[[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]]<br /> *[[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]]<br /> *[[Twin Twist]]<br /> *[[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> ====''Wings Universe''====<br /> During the Great War, the Wreckers were Autobot elite commandos led by [[Impactor (G1)|Impactor]], who served as the opposite number to [[Macabre]] and his Decepticons in [[Squadron X]]. Their long struggle came to an unexpected end when Macabre set an ambush for the Wreckers on [[Torax Prime]] which they never walked into. Instead, the various members of Squadron X slowly turned against Macabre or went completely insane waiting for the Wreckers to show up. Impactor's squad eventually came to Torax Prime only after hearing about a massive explosion, caused when [[Earthquake (G1)|Earthquake]] strapped a couple of bombs to his chest and rushed Macabre in a demonstration of his dissatisfaction with the current mission. {{storylink|Tornado - Decepticon Saboteur}}<br /> <br /> The Wreckers' activities are largely undocumented beyond that, although centuries later, one group of Wreckers was led by [[Primal Prime]] during a [[Quintesson]] invasion. Shortly before or during [[2984]], [[Cheetor (BW)|Alpha Trizer]] recently reformed the Wreckers under Primal Prime's command and given the ship ''[[Rodimus Major]]'' to patrol distant corners of the galaxy in the name of peace (and give some of the more aggressive personalities on peacetime Cybertron an outlet). {{storylink|BotCon 2014|Primal Prime's customization class booklet}} {{storylink|Tornado - Decepticon Saboteur|Apelinq's personal logs}}<br /> <br /> Primal Prime invited [[Flareup (G1)|Flare-Up]] to join the Wreckers, but [[Ginrai (robot)|Ginrai]] had already recruited her for the [[Cybertronian Knight]]s.<br /> <br /> As the Knights responded with dread to an impending mandatory meditation session and lecture from Alpha Trizer, [[Devcon (G1)|Devcon]] quipped that the Wreckers had refused the assignment. <br /> <br /> When Ginrai called a red alert for what turned out to be a space fender-bender at a [[Nebulos]] spaceport, Apelinq reported that the Wreckers were two systems away. {{storylink|Tornado - Decepticon Saboteur|Apelinq's personal logs}}<br /> <br /> While journeying to check up on a Predacon colony near the [[Dark Nebula]], the ''Rodimus Major'' was caught in the gravity well of a wormhole anomaly. {{storylink|BotCon 2014|Primal Prime's customization class booklet}} With no hope of breaking free, Primal Prime ordered [[Fireflight (Universe Deluxe)|Fireflight]], the only Wrecker with personal FTL capability, to return at top speed to Cybertron with their logs. {{storylink|Tornado - Decepticon Saboteur|Apelinq's personal logs}}<br /> <br /> '''Known members: '''<br /> {{collist|3|<br /> *[[Backstop (G1)|Backstop]]<br /> *[[Buzz Saw (BW)|Buzzsaw]]<br /> *[[Devcon (G1)|Devcon]]<br /> *[[Drop Zone]]<br /> *[[Fireflight (Universe Deluxe)|Fireflight]]<br /> *[[Impactor (G1)|Impactor]]<br /> *[[Night Viper]]<br /> *[[Primal Prime]] (leader)<br /> *[[Quickstrike (BM)|Quickstrike]]<br /> *[[Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Rodimus Major]]<br /> *[[Stockade (Universe 2003)|Stockade]]<br /> *[[Tap-Out (Universe)|Tap-Out]] (second-in-command)<br /> *[[Tripwire (G1)|Tripwire]]<br /> *[[Wide Scope]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> ====Japanese Generation 1 cartoon continuity====<br /> When [[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]] and [[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]] were created in [[Legends World|another dimension]], ''Transformers'' nerd [[Waspinator (BW)|Waspinator]] identified them as Wreckers from [[#Marvel The Transformers comics|a British comic book]]. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 4|Bonus Edition Vol. 4}} The two accepted this as their origin story and, after traveling to the year 2004 of the [[G1 World]], introduced themselves as Wreckers to [[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]] and [[Twin Twist]]. [[Springer (G1)|Springer]] overheard their conversation and thought it was a really cool name for a team, so he founded his own Wreckers as a new Autobot unit and recruited all four of them. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 7|Bonus Edition Vol. 7}} {{storylink|Jumpstarter Chapter#LG-07 Jetfire Sequel|LG-07 Jetfire Sequel}} Springer's vague mission statement for the Wreckers was &quot;doing cool stuff&quot;, but [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]] thought that was stupid and instead charged them with cleaning the area around [[Mount St. Hilary]]. As a result, a disappointed Springer left the team for a few years. {{storylink|Jumpstarter Chapter#G1 Wreckers Birth Story|G1 Wreckers Birth Story}}<br /> <br /> In the 2030s, the Wreckers traveled to the Legends World to defend it from [[Windblade (G1)|Windblade]] and [[Katsu Don]]. {{storylink|Jumpstarter Chapter#LG65 Twin Twist Prologue|LG65 Twin Twist Prologue}} Topspin and Twin Twist did most of the work thanks to having mastered the powers of the [[Zodiac]]. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 65|Bonus Edition Vol. 65}} {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 66|Bonus Edition Vol. 66}}<br /> <br /> '''Known members:'''<br /> {{collist|3|<br /> *[[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]]<br /> *[[Springer (G1)|Springer]]<br /> *[[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]]<br /> *[[Twin Twist]]<br /> *[[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> ====Ask Vector Prime====<br /> In [[Primax 208.06 Zeta]], the Wreckers were a resistance group led by [[Rodimus Primal]] that fought against [[Obsidian (BM)|Obsidian]]'s [[Vehicon (BM)|Vehicons]] on [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Facebook|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/08/16}}<br /> <br /> ====''Of Masters and Mayhem''====<br /> [[File:Toxic Transformer The Wreckers.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.4|&quot;What are we, [[Avengers|a team]]? No, no, no. We're a chemical mixture that makes chaos. We're ... [[Wreckage (G1)|we're a time bomb.]]&quot;]]<br /> When the monstrous [[Thunder Mayhem]] destroyed Cybertron, Impactor gathered together a motley crew of survivors to get revenge. He doesn't care if you're a geochemist or a mass murderer, this is all revenge, all the time!<br /> <br /> [[File:LivelyPursuit Wreckers.jpg|thumb|upright=1.5|Wrecker's AA meeting.]]<br /> '''Known members:'''<br /> {{collist|3|<br /> *[[Impactor (G1)|Impactor]] (leader)<br /> *[[Punch (G1)|Counterpunch]]<br /> *[[Fractyl]]<br /> *[[Toxitron (G1)|Toxitron]]<br /> *[[Alpha Bravo]]<br /> *[[Offroad (Generations)|Offroad]]<br /> *[[Wreckage (G1)|Wreckage]] (ultimate weapon)<br /> *[[Bluestreak (G1)|Bluestreak]] <br /> }}<br /> {{-}}<br /> <br /> ====''Beast Wars: Uprising''====<br /> During the waning days of the [[Great War (G1)|Great War]], the Wreckers tried to stop an [[Underbase]]-powered [[Thunderwing (G1)|Thunderwing]] only to be wiped out. {{storylink|Not All Megatrons}}<br /> <br /> [[Grimlock (G1)|Grimlock]] mentioned he was a former Wrecker. {{storylink|Derailment}}<br /> <br /> ===''Shattered Glass''===<br /> The Wreckers were a band of mercenaries led by [[Rodimus (SG)|Rodimus]], who spent their time looting and pillaging the countryside. They approved of [[Optimus Prime (SG)|Optimus]]'s campaign of conquest, but initially preferred to remain autonomous.<br /> <br /> That is, until one fateful day when Optimus hired the Wreckers to fight alongside his Autobots at the battle of [[Praxus-Delta]]. The battle was brutal and resulted in every Wrecker except Rodimus meeting the fate of most Wreckers across the [[multiverse]] at the hands of the Decepticons. Rodimus impressed Optimus by remaining in the fight regardless, in order to fulfill the contract. Thanks to his efforts the Autobots escaped without further losses, and Optimus was so impressed that he offered Rodimus leadership of the [[Seeker (SG)|Seekers]], which the former Wrecker accepted. {{storylink|Rodimus (SG)#Timelines|BotCon 2008 Rodimus profile card}}<br /> <br /> After the [[Mayhem Suppression Squad]] had successfully turned back one of the Autobots' raids, [[Side Burn (SG)|Side Burn]] reminded Prime that he ''had'' recommended reforming the Wreckers as their best counter to the Squad.<br /> <br /> Later, when trying to convince [[Cliffjumper (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Cliffjumper]] and [[Sideswipe (SG)|Sideswipe]] to leave the Decepticons and join up with one of his power-grabbing schemes, Rodimus hearkened back to what was likely the Wreckers' old motto, when he told them that they'd have &quot;a whole planet ready to ''wreck-and-ruin''!&quot; {{storylink|Dungeons &amp; Dinobots}}<br /> <br /> ===''Animated'' cartoon===<br /> During the [[Great War (Animated)|Great War]], the Wreckers were a major problem for the Decepticons, operating behind their lines as a commando unit. They are noted for interrupting supply lines, destroying the mainframe on [[Bk'n]], and demolishing the shipyards of [[Salvvatan VI]]. They operated from the [[Omega Sentinel (Animated)|Omega Sentinel]] ship ''[[Zeta Supreme|Xantium]]'', which was bonded to [[Impactor Major]], apparently the leader of the team. Megatron created the [[Decepticon Heavy Brigade]] specifically to hunt down the Wreckers. When they finally met in battle, [[Blackout (Animated)|Blackout]] was the only survivor on either side. {{storylink|Transformers Animated: The AllSpark Almanac II|The AllSpark Almanac II}}<br /> <br /> ===Aligned continuity family===<br /> {{bigquote|Wreckers don't call for backup. They call for clean-up!|[[Wheeljack (Prime)|Wheeljack]] and [[Bulkhead (Prime)|Bulkhead]]|&quot;[[Loose Cannons]]&quot;}}<br /> [[File:ChainOfCommand Wreckers.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|On the count of three, everybody say &quot;Whirl sucks!&quot;]]<br /> The Wreckers traced their origins to [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]'s Age of Origins, emerging as a band of roving vigilantes that protected the primitive settlements of Cybertron from marauding and pillaging groups such as the [[Vandal]]s, [[Breaker (COP)|Breakers]], and [[Ravager]]s. When the [[Quintesson]]s arrived on Cybertron, they created an official planetary police force, branding the Wreckers as outlaws. The Wreckers did not take this well, later joining [[Sentinel Zeta Prime]]'s rebellion against the invaders. When the era of colonization began, the Wreckers protected the first duplicate [[Well of All Sparks]] on the planet [[Archon]] from religious doomsday cultists. {{storylink|Transformers: The Covenant of Primus|The Covenant of Primus}}<br /> <br /> During the era of the [[Functionism|caste system]], the Wreckers had become [[Autobot High Council|Council Guardians]], later siding with the Autobots in the [[Great War (Prime)|Great War]]. {{storylink|Transformers: Exodus|Exodus}} [[Bulkhead (Prime)|Bulkhead]] and [[Wheeljack (Prime)|Wheeljack]] were also members, though early on in the war Bulkhead left to join [[Team Prime]]. {{storylink|Con Job}} Wheeljack left when [[Ultra Magnus (WFC)|Ultra Magnus]] was appointed to lead the squad {{storylink|Chain of Command (Prime)|Chain of Command}} by [[Optimus Prime (WFC)|Optimus Prime]] with the hopes Magnus would be able to give the squad some discipline. {{storylink|Project Predacon}} The Wreckers took part in the siege of the [[Hydrax Plateau]]. Afterwards, they were all that stood between [[Devastator (WFC)|Devastator]] and the [[Tagan Heights]] before [[Defensor (WFC)|Defensor]] arrived. They guarded the [[Well of All Sparks]] when [[Optimus Prime (WFC)|Optimus Prime]] descended through it to free the [[core]] of its suffocation by [[Dark Energon]]. Ultra Magnus, [[Springer (WFC)|Springer]], and other team members opted to remain behind to distract [[Trypticon (WFC)|Trypticon]] when the ''[[Ark (WFC)|Ark]]'' launched, gaining invaluable allies in [[Jetfire (WFC)|Jetfire]], [[Omega Supreme (WFC)|Omega Supreme]], and [[Alpha Trion (WFC)|Alpha Trion]]. {{storylink|Transformers: Exodus|Exodus}}<br /> <br /> After Cybertron went dark, Wheeljack traveled the stars and eventually found Bulkhead on [[Earth]]. {{storylink|Con Job}} He left shortly after their reunion and continued to search the galaxy. He eventually found [[Seaspray (Prime)|Seaspray]], but [[Dreadwing (Prime)|Dreadwing]] had found them both and promptly destroyed Seaspray's ship, killing the Wrecker. When Dreadwing made his way to Earth, Wheeljack followed to get his revenge. {{storylink|Loose Cannons}} The [[Insecticon (WFC)|Insecticon]] [[Hardshell]] noted that he had off-lined several Wreckers when fighting Bulkhead. {{storylink|Toxicity}} Miko was inducted as a Wrecker by Wheeljack after she off-lined Hardshell. {{storylink|Hurt}} At some point, [[Elite Guard]] graduate [[Smokescreen (Prime)|Smokescreen]] had studied every battle the Wreckers had been involved in. {{storylink|The Human Factor}} After arriving on Earth, Ultra Magnus again attempted to instill some discipline into Bulkhead and Wheeljack, but this only led to Wheeljack temporarily quitting the team. {{storylink|Chain of Command (Prime)|Chain of Command}} The Wreckers served as a vital asset to Team Prime during the twilight days of the war, usually handling large swaths of enemies on their own {{storylink|Evolution}} and proved instrumental in securing the ''[[Trypticon (WFC)|Nemesis]]'' during the final battle of the war. {{storylink|Deadlock}}<br /> <br /> '''Known members:'''<br /> {{collist|3|<br /> *[[Bulkhead (Prime)|Bulkhead]]<br /> *[[Fisitron (Timelines)|Fisitron]]<br /> *[[Hot Shot (Prime)|Hot Shot]]<br /> *[[Impactor (Prime)|Impactor]]<br /> *[[Jetfire (WFC)|Jetfire]]<br /> *[[Kup (WFC)|Kup]]<br /> *[[Miko Nakadai]]<br /> *[[Moonracer (COP)|Moonracer]]<br /> *[[Pyro (Prime)|Pyro]]<br /> *[[Rack n' Ruin]]<br /> *[[Roadbuster (Prime)|Roadbuster]]<br /> *[[Rodimus (WFC)|Rodimus]]<br /> *[[Rotorstorm (Prime)|Rotorstorm]]<br /> *[[Ruination (FOC)|Ruination]]<br /> *[[Seaspray (Prime)|Seaspray]]<br /> *[[Springer (WFC)|Springer]]<br /> *[[Topspin (FOC)|Topspin]] <br /> *[[Twintwist]]<br /> *[[Ultra Magnus (WFC)|Ultra Magnus]] (leader)<br /> *[[Wheeljack (Prime)|Wheeljack]]<br /> *[[Whirl (FOC)|Whirl]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> ===Live-action film series===<br /> {{bigquote|We don't let them off the base much 'cause they're assholes.|[[Charlotte Mearing]]|''[[Transformers: Dark of the Moon (film)|Dark of the Moon]]''}}<br /> [[File:DOTM-Leadfoot-Topspin.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|How am I gonna stop some big, mean Mother Hubbard from tearing me a structurally superfluous new behind? The answer, use a gun. And if that don't work? Use more gun.]]<br /> The Wreckers, [[Leadfoot (DOTM)|Leadfoot]], [[Roadbuster (DOTM)|Roadbuster]], and [[Topspin (DOTM)|Topspin]], were a trio of engineering geniuses who came to Earth aboard the Autobot spaceship ''[[Xantium (DOTM)|Xantium]]''. The Wreckers rarely left the secret Autobot launch facility at Cape Canaveral, partially because caring for the ship dominated their time, and partially because they were assholes. The Wreckers helped engineer the Autobots' feigned exile from Earth and assassination by [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]], and later participated in the battle for [[Chicago]]. They proved effective, if vicious, fighters, dismantling their fair share of Decepticons, challenging [[Shockwave (Movie)|Shockwave]] and rescuing [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] from an embarrassing situation. All three of them would continue fighting and would be among the surviving Autobots, accepting Earth as their true home. {{storylink|Transformers: Dark of the Moon (film)|Dark of the Moon}}<br /> <br /> After the Battle of Chicago, [[Harold Attinger]] formed a secret faction of the CIA known as &quot;[[Cemetery Wind]]&quot; to hunt down all Transformers regardless of faction. Leadfoot was among the many casualties of the hunt, and his death was revealed to the surviving Autobots by [[Cade Yeager]]. [[Hound (Movie)|Hound]] sadly took off his hat in respect for his fallen friend, and Optimus Prime vowed to kill the person responsible for Leadfoot and the other's deaths. {{storylink|Transformers: Age of Extinction (film)|Age of Extinction}} <br /> <br /> Topspin was very fortunate, as he was given sanctuary in [[Cuba]] with [[Seymour Simmons]]. He spends most of his time pestering him to go to the beach or play volleyball for fun. {{storylink|Transformers: The Last Knight (film)|The Last Knight}}<br /> <br /> '''Known members:'''<br /> {{collist|3|<br /> *[[Roadbuster (DOTM)|Roadbuster]]<br /> *[[Leadfoot (DOTM)|Leadfoot]]<br /> *[[Topspin (DOTM)|Topspin]] <br /> }}<br /> <br /> ====''Bot Shots''====<br /> The Wreckers were an elite Autobot fighting force famed for their habit of not fighting fair. {{storylink|Topspin (DOTM)|Topspin's online bio}}<br /> <br /> '''Known members:'''<br /> *[[Roadbuster (DOTM)|Roadbuster]]<br /> *[[Leadfoot (DOTM)|Leadfoot]]<br /> *[[Topspin (DOTM)|Topspin]]<br /> *[[Steeljaw (DOTM)|Steeljaw]] (pet)<br /> {{-}}<br /> <br /> ===''Angry Birds Transformers''===<br /> [[File:ABTF-screen WreckerSquad.jpg|upright=1.6|thumb]]<br /> Yes, even the inhabitants of [[Piggy Island]] have their version of the Wreckers! This Squad of [[Autobird]]s is famed for toppling towers and popping [[Minion Pig]]s aplenty... and when they're all together, earning more gold coins in the process. Cha-ching! {{storylink|Angry Birds Transformers (mobile game)|Angry Birds Transformers}}<br /> <br /> '''Known members:'''<br /> *[[Stella (AB)#As Moonracer|Moonracer]]<br /> *[[Chuck (AB)#As Rodimus|Rodimus]]<br /> *[[Red (AB)#As Ultra Magnus|Ultra Magnus]]<br /> *[[Bomb (AB)#As Wheeljack|Wheeljack]]<br /> {{-}}<br /> <br /> ==Games==<br /> ===''Transformers: Earth Wars''===<br /> When [[Optimus Primal (BW)|Optimus Primal]] convinced his comrades to go and help [[Sentius Magnus]], [[Springer (G1)|Springer]] agreed by &quot;the Wrecker way&quot;. {{storylink|Transformers: Earth Wars|Equilibrium}}<br /> <br /> ==Notes==<br /> *The ''Wings Universe'' Wreckers were supposed to feature in &quot;[[Cybertron's Most Wanted]]&quot; following their mentions in &quot;[[Tornado - Decepticon Saboteur]]&quot;, but an art coordination error prevented this from happening.&lt;ref&gt;[https://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/135573-wings-universecannonball-loose-ends/?p=3406288 Post by NightViper (Jesse Wittenrich) on the Allspark Forums, 2016/12/23]&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Foreign names===<br /> *''Japanese:'' '''Wreckers''' (レッカーズ ''Rekkāzu'')<br /> *''German:'' '''Schrotter''' (&quot;Wrecker&quot;)<br /> *''Hungarian:'' '''Rontók''' (&quot;Ruiners&quot;)<br /> *''Italian:'' '''Demolitori''' (&quot;Demolishers&quot;)<br /> *''Korean:'' '''Wreckers''' (레커즈 ''Lekeojeu'')<br /> *''Mandarin:'' '''Léitíng Zhěngjiù Duì''' (China, 雷霆拯救队, &quot;Lightning Rescue Team&quot;), '''Huíshōu Jiùyuán Duì''' (China, 回收救援队, &quot;Reclaim &amp; Rescue Team&quot;)<br /> *''Turkish:'' '''Yıkıcılar''' (&quot;Wreckers&quot;)<br /> <br /> ==References==<br /> {{reflist}}<br /> <br /> [[Category:Animated subgroups]]<br /> [[Category:Autobot subgroups]]<br /> [[Category:Beast Machines]]<br /> [[Category:Beast Wars: Uprising subgroups]]<br /> [[Category:Dark of the Moon subgroups]]<br /> [[Category:Fall of Cybertron subgroups]]<br /> [[Category:Generation 1 subgroups]]<br /> [[Category:Prime subgroups]]<br /> [[Category:Shattered Glass subgroups]]<br /> [[Category:Subgroups]]<br /> [[Category:Universe (2003)]]<br /> [[Category:Wreckers| ]]<br /> [[Category:War for Cybertron subgroups]]<br /> [[Category:Wings Universe subgroups]]</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=Wreckers&diff=1529238 2021-07-21T14:57:11Z

<p>Suki Brits: </p> <hr /> <div>{{factions|autobot|wreckers}}<br /> {{featured}}<br /> {{disambig3|Wreckers}}<br /> [[File:Wreckers symbol.png|thumb|Wreck &amp; Rule.]]<br /> The '''Wreckers''' are a special task force, generally composed of the best and the toughest die-hard fighters around. Its ranks include a veritable who's-who of the obscure; mechs you've never heard much about, mostly because the Wreckers are often called in to fight when the odds of success are slim. Bluntly, they tend to burn through their roster at a frightening rate. The Wreckers are a close-knit group that's more concerned with bursting in, guns-blazing, and doing their Thing, than they are concerned with, say, strategy. Despite their disregard for planning and the bodycount their team mounts, the Wreckers are amazingly successful. If it's a lost cause, the Wreckers will be there, winning the day with sheer guts and determination.<br /> <br /> Perhaps the most celebrated leader of the Wreckers is [[Springer (G1)|Springer]], though the memory of his former leader, [[Impactor (G1)|Impactor]], hangs over his head. The team also has vague ties to [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]], and the [[Maximal]] future will bring leaders such as [[Apelinq (BM)|Apelinq]] and [[Primal Prime]]. <br /> <br /> They're associated with Autobots like the [[Deluxe Vehicle]]s and [[Jumpstarter]]s, but when [[Target: 2006|times]] [[Transformers: The Wreckers|get]] [[The Transformers: Last Stand of the Wreckers|really]] [[Of Masters and Mayhem|desperate]], they'll grab ''anyone'': newly modified Autobots, [[Predacon (BW)|Predacons]], squishy [[human]]s, and even former [[Decepticon]]s or the [[Ironfist (G1)#2005 IDW continuity|dying]]. <br /> <br /> {{bigquote|Never a dull moment when you're a Wrecker.|[[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]]|[[Stormbringer issue 4|''Stormbringer'' #4]]}}<br /> <br /> ==Fiction==<br /> ===Generation 1 continuity family===<br /> ====Marvel Comics continuity====<br /> =====Marvel ''The Transformers'' comics=====<br /> {{noteukexclusive|The Wreckers}}<br /> [[File:Wreckersoriginallineup.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|They always smile after a nice massacre.]]<br /> The Wreckers were [[Emirate]] [[Xaaron]]'s special ops squad, first being heard from during [[Trannis]]'s dread advances. Their first mission was to assassinate Trannis himself and they succeeded (and that meant [[Straxus (G1)|Straxus]] took over, whoops). {{storylink|Cybertron: The Middle Years!}}<br /> <br /> In [[1986]], the roster of the Wreckers consisted of Impactor (the leader), Roadbuster, Whirl, Twin-Twist, Topspin, and Rack'n'Ruin. They were later joined by Broadside, Sandstorm, and Springer (who became the team's leader after Impactor's death). The team were set to be at the business end of [[Operation: Volcano]], killing ten of the most deadly Decepticons as they converged on a staged conference. Without [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Ultra Magnus]] around to help, however, they would have been massacred soon after and they came close to backing out, only to decide to do their duty. The Autobot [[Triple Changer]]s were sent in as a replacement. <br /> <br /> However, when [[Megatron (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Megatron]] called off the Decepticons' advance (truth be told, he didn't seem to know or care about it), the Wreckers' plans were also cancelled. As was Impactor's life, as one of the Decepticons, [[Macabre]], had stayed behind to kill [[Emirate]] [[Xaaron]], and Impactor took the 'bullet' for him. Impactor named Springer his successor as he lay dying. {{storylink|Target: 2006}} <br /> <br /> Later, the team and Ultra Magnus were misled into trying to kill [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Optimus Prime]] upon his return to Cybertron. Decepticons had planted misinformation that Prime was in fact a Decepticon made up to ''look'' like Prime. Fortunately for the Wreckers' record, Magnus and Xaaron uncovered the truth before anyone could kill the Autobots' Greatest Leader. {{storylink|Distant Thunder!}} During his stay on Cybertron, Optimus Prime led the Wreckers on a number of fruitful raids on [[Decepticon fuel store]]s. {{storylink|Resurrection!}}<br /> <br /> [[File:Technician wreckers legion of the lost.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.95]]<br /> After Optimus Prime returned to Earth, [[Autobase]] in [[Kalis]] was rocked by a huge explosion caused by the venting of an active nuclear reactor. Xaaron told the Wreckers of Megatron's ancient plan to turn Cybertron into a vast mobile battle station and that Autobase was potentially built on top of the engine room. Springer led the Wreckers to try to find the entrance to the sub-terranean facility but they were unable to locate it. Upon their return Autobase was attacked by hoards of undead Transformers, including their former leader, Impactor. Once the Wreckers and Xaaron were imprisoned, [[Flame (Marvel)|Flame]] revealed himself to be behind the explosion, as well as the reanimation of the dead. Though shaken by recent events Springer managed to escape the cell, taking Impactor with him. The current Wrecker leader did enough to reawaken some sense of self in the zombified Impactor before reaching the surface, where he met Ultra Magnus and the [[Sparkabot|Sparkler Mini-Bots]]. Meanwhile, the other Wreckers had escaped and headed for the armory and, aided by a curious and vengeful Impactor, managed to reach the weapons necessary to defeat Flame's undead minions. With [[Trypticon (G1)|Trypticon]]'s assistance, the Wreckers broke through to the main control room, where Xaaron was preparing to sacrifice himself in order to reach the reactor shut down control. Under orders to leave, the Wreckers fought their way past more reanimated corpses, leaving Impactor to save Xaaron twice again, firstly by killing Flame and then entering the radioactive chamber himself to deactivate the reactor. Xaaron made it to safety and gave thanks for the bravest being he had ever met. {{storylink|Legion of the Lost!}} {{storylink|Meltdown!}}<br /> <br /> [[File:WreckingHavoc-yourfoe.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|Sandstorm and Broadside are on good terms with Galvy.]]<br /> In [[1988]] the Wreckers were tasked to bring down [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]]. Both Xaaron and Springer had concerns about the mission, but deemed it necessary due to the danger posed by the future Decepticon leader. The team transported through an unstable dimensional portal, unwittingly landing in a small mid-western town, to be confronted not only by Galvatron but also his two former lieutenants, [[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]] and [[Scourge (G1)|Scourge]]. Unable to fight all three Decepticons as well as defend the human population, Springer managed to lure Cyclonus and Scourge away. Faced with a choice of allowing Galvatron to escape or aid their leader the Wreckers chose to help Springer. Galvatron was able to escape but the Wreckers vowed to return to finish the job. {{storylink|Wrecking Havoc}}<br /> <br /> In an effort to reduce further risk to human life Xaaron sent an [[Advance Surveillance Unit]], consisting of Broadside, Sandstorm, and Inferno, to set up a reconnaissance base. Though their primary mission was to observe and not interfere, the two Wreckers and Inferno could not help but go to the aid of a local town when a [[Firebug (G1)|Firebug]] crash landed nearby and started multiple blazes. {{storylink|Firebug!}} <br /> <br /> [[File:Megatron wreckers time wars.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.66|The Wreckers look on as Megatron goes Dreamwave on them.]]<br /> The unit tracked Galvatron as he stockpiled equipment and supplies, and discovered his subterranean base. With space and time [[time rift|ripping themselves apart]] due to the future Decepticon's presence, Xaaron sent reinforcements in the shape of a Decepticon [[Decepticon heavy transport|spacecraft]] carrying the rest of the Wreckers and the [[Mayhem Attack Squad]], who had formed a crisis alliance. The two teams made their way to Galvatron's unguarded base and were able to walk straight in. Unfortunately Galvatron had formed his own alliance with [[Megatron (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Megatron]] (or at least, [[Straxus (G1)|his clone]]) and they attacked the two elite squads, who quickly began to fall beneath the might of the crazed duo. Topspin was one of the first to fall, victim of Megatron's [[fusion cannon]]. Cracks soon showed in the alliance as Springer and [[Carnivac (G1)|Carnivac]] almost came to blows, blaming each other for the disastrous plan. They were interrupted by Scourge and [[Ravage (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Ravage]], who had also allied themselves to Galvatron. Fortunately Springer was able to sow seeds of doubt about the cause of the space/time rift in Scourge's mind, distracting him. Springer then jumped him while Ravage was taken out by Carnivac. The Wreckers leader sounded the retreat and Carnivac reluctantly ordered his Mayhems to do the same. <br /> <br /> [[File:TimeWars-frakamm.jpg|thumb|GET OUT OF MY WAY!]]<br /> The teams re-grouped at the Decepticon ship with Galvatron and Megatron hot on their heels. Galvatron announced his arrival by destroying Sandstorm with his [[Particle cannon]]. An enraged Roadbuster fetched an experimental [[Pathblaster]] and managed to blow half of Galvatron's face off. However the weapon was unstable and exploded, killing Roadbuster before he could use it again. Galvatron was only further madenned by his injury, ripping off Twin Twist's head and blasting Rack'n'Ruin. The remaining Wreckers were only saved by the arrival of reinforcements of Autobots and Decepticons from both the future and present day. With most of their members offline and the rest injured, the Wreckers did not play any further part in the battle. {{storylink|Time Wars}}<br /> <br /> After the Time Wars, the few survivors (Springer, Broadside and Inferno) joined together with other &quot;outsiders&quot;—both Autobot and Decepticon. The Decepticon ship they had used to reach Earth was stolen by Megatron and they were seemingly abandoned by High Command. With these new circumstances they ceased to use the Wreckers title and formed part of the (aptly named) [[Survivors]]. {{storylink|Survivors!}}<br /> {{-}}<br /> <br /> ======Marvel UK future timelines======<br /> [[File:Rodimus technobots wreckers peace.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.66||...have granted me the right to join two Cybertronians in holy matrimony. You sure about your best man Magnus?]]<br /> In an alternate future of [[2510]], the Wreckers killed the last Decepticon in battle, signifying the end of the [[Great War (G1)|war]]. Upon learning this news, [[Hot Rod (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Rodimus Prime]] called together his warriors at Autobase to announce that he was stepping down as Autobot leader and selected Springer as his replacement. Triton, a Decepticon double agent who had infiltrated the ranks of the [[Technobot (G1)|Technobots]], sought to sow dissent in the Autobot ranks and questioned Rodimus's choice, suggesting that Ultra Magnus would make a better leader.<br /> <br /> The resulting argument quickly escalated when [[Scattershot (G1)|Scattershot]] shot Roadbuster, blowing his head clean off. Sandstorm retaliated by killing Triton and soon the Autobots had split into factions fighting a whole new war, to Rodimus Prime's great despair. {{storylink|Peace}}<br /> {{-}}<br /> <br /> '''Known members:'''<br /> {{collist|3|<br /> *[[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]]<br /> *[[Impactor (G1)|Impactor]] (first leader)<br /> *[[Inferno (G1)|Inferno]]<br /> *[[Rack'n'Ruin (G1)|Rack'n'Ruin]]<br /> *[[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]]<br /> *[[Sandstorm (G1)|Sandstorm]]<br /> *[[Springer (G1)|Springer]] (second leader)<br /> *[[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]]<br /> *[[Twin Twist]]<br /> *[[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> *Both Roadbuster and Whirl were absent during the Flame incident and initial Galvatron mission. Roadbuster reappears and dies during the Time Wars but Whirl is never seen again. As Springer states that the rest of the Wreckers are with him on the Decepticon heavy transport ship, this may indicate that Whirl either left the Wreckers or was killed in action.<br /> *Dialogue in &quot;[[Firebug!]]&quot; suggests Inferno was not a Wrecker at this point. Later, in &quot;[[Survivors!]]&quot; and an [[Transformers Annual 1991|annual bio]], he was considered an ex-Wrecker. There is no indication of when he joined, most likely prior to &quot;[[Time Wars]]&quot;.<br /> *Rack'n'Ruin and Inferno are missing from the alternate future roster in &quot;[[Peace]]&quot;.<br /> <br /> =====''Regeneration One''=====<br /> {{NoteRG1}}<br /> [[File:Wreckers loose ends.jpg|thumb|upright=1.8| [[Great War (G1)|Great War]]? What Great War? Sorry, must have missed the call to arms. Did you make a mess?]]<br /> Twenty-one years after the battle of [[Klo]], Springer led a team of soldiers known as the Wreckers. Loosely under the jurisdiction of [[Ultra Magnus (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Ultra Magnus]], the Wreckers were apparently separate from the standard [[Cybertronian Civil Defense]] rank-and-file. They stopped a terrorist act on Cybertron and later accompanied [[Kup (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Kup]] to visit planets affected by the Great War. On their first stop, Earth, they discovered it had been devastated some time ago. Before they had chance to fully take in the devastation their ship was promptly blown out of the sky by Megatron. {{storylink|Loose Ends, Part 1}}<br /> <br /> [[File:Wreckers loose ends 2.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.6]]<br /> The unit managed to bail out of the ship in escape pods, crash landing on Earth. Somewhat battered, the Wreckers had little chance to fully take stock before Whirl delivered the news that reanimated Decepticons were on their way. Heading out Springer decided to try to contact Cybertron and aid the safe approach of reinforcements. Leaving the injured at a safe distance the remaining Wreckers attempted to reach the [[Deep Space Network]] at [[Goldstone]]. Sandstorm, Roadbuster and Leadfoot tried to keep the zombie Decepticons distracted while Kup, Springer and Whirl made a dash for the transmitter. The former trio were not totally successful so Kup turned to assist to allow his teammates to send the message. Unfortunately he was taken by surprise by [[Skywarp (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Skywarp]], knocked unconscious and quickly taken to Megatron. Meanwhile, a group of human survivors stumbled across Rack'n'Ruin and the injured Wreckers. Assuming the worse the humans attempted to flee, Rack'n'Ruin tried to go after them but was held off by [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Circuit Smasher]] {{storylink|Loose Ends, Part 2}}<br /> <br /> Though initially distrustful, Circuit Smasher eventually allied himself with the Wreckers and explained how human interference with the [[Ark (G1)|Ark]] had led to the reactivation of Megatron. Somehow the Decepticon leader managed to turn the planet's defenses on itself, reactivated his fallen warriors and in a matter of hours had all but wiped out the Earth. Circuit Smasher took the Wreckers to meet [[G.B. Blackrock]] who told them that the Ark should be their key target as it formed the basis of Megatron's technology and defensive capabilities. However, before they could make any specific plans their meeting was interrupted by a call from Megatron who informed them that he had given Kup [[Scraplet]]s. {{storylink|Loose Ends, Part 3}}<br /> <br /> [[File:Wreckers loose ends 4.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4]]<br /> Springer once again split the Wreckers, while he, Sandstorm and Whirl went to meet Megatron the remaining bots and their human allies would assault the Ark. Both teams took heavy fire, Springer's squad were soon grounded by weight of numbers and the others got past the first wave of Ark defenses only to face a troupe of [[Guardian (Marvel)|Guardian Units]]. Megatron was about to execute Springer when Optimus Prime arrived with reinforcements, the distraction allowing the zombie Starscream to tell Kup to kill [[Ratchet (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Ratchet]]. {{storylink| Loose Ends, Part 4}}<br /> <br /> Prime demanded the Megatron let Springer go, however the Decepticon leader merely goaded his nemesis by glibly blasting Springer's head off at point blank range. Blinded with rage Prime attacked leading Megatron to reveal that he had programmed [[Aunty|Auntie]], the Ark's computer, to launch every missile on the planet once their battle was done. At the Ark the Wreckers kept the Guardians busy so that Circuit Smasher could deal with Auntie. Kup managed to arm himself and make his way to Megatron's [[battle sled]] to kill Ratchet and with him Megatron with whom the medic had become fused both in body and mind. Considering it a mercy killing Kup shot Ratchet giving Prime the chance he needed to rip out Megatron's [[Spark]]. Fortunately by this time Circuit Smasher had deactivated Auntie and the planet was saved from further destruction. {{storylink| Loose Ends, Part 5}}<br /> <br /> [[File:Kup fang destiny.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.9]]<br /> In addition to Springer's death, [[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]] and [[Leadfoot (G2)|Leadfoot]] were left in critical condition because of their injuries. {{storylink|Natural Selection, Part One}} After returning to Cybertron, {{storylink| Natural Selection, Part Five}} the Wreckers acted as a security force for [[Hot Rod (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Hot Rod]]. When a group of Neo-Decepticons led by [[Fang]] blockaded the bridge [[Auto-artery RG1]], Kup led the Wreckers to detain them. When Kup started to come to blows with Fang, Roadbuster pulled him aside, suggesting they do things the way Springer would have, going so far as suggesting that Kup ''himself'' was making things worse by giving the populace something to hate. As they argue, two Cybertronians try to sneak past the blockade, attacking Fang, and causing a fight to break out. {{storylink| Destiny, Part Two}}<br /> <br /> [[File:Wreckers destiny.jpg|thumb|upright=1.8]]<br /> The Wreckers' next foray into action came in the form of a raid. Remotely coordinated by Ultra Magnus, they raided [[Fort Scyk]] in order to find apprehend [[Soundwave (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Soundwave]] and his Neo-Decepticons. However, having anticipated this, the Decepticons had abandoned the place and wired it to explode. Unsurprisingly, all of the Wreckers survived virtually unscathed, and Kup proceeded to report in to Magnus on the situation. {{storylink|Destiny, Part Three}}<br /> <br /> When [[Bludgeon (G1)|Bludgeon]] launched an all out attack on Cybertron, Kup tried to convince [[Prowl (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Prowl]] to let the Wreckers take the front lines. Prowl refused, saying that the Wreckers needed to be applied strategically, he just didn't know ''where''. This frustrated Kup. {{storylink|Destiny, Part Four}}<br /> <br /> The Wreckers were eventually dispatched aboard a ship to infiltrate Bludgeon's base of operations the [[Warworld]]. Bludgeon, fully aware of their presence, launched a solo attack on them, slaughtering them with his mastery of [[Metallikato]]. As the Wreckers tried to stand against him, Kup escaped to destroy the reservoir of Matrix energy powering the Warworld, but Bludgeon, having swiftly defeated all of the other Wreckers, pursues him. After catching him, Bludgeon proceeded to beat Kup to within an inch of his life, and the old-timer was only saved by the arrival of the newly christened [[Hot Rod (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Rodimus Prime]]. As the new Prime soundly defeated Bludgeon and disabled the ship, Kup, along with his fellow Wreckers and Rodimus fled the ship as it was destroyed. {{storylink|Destiny, Part Five}}<br /> <br /> [[File:Wreckers war to end all wars.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.8]]<br /> When a more successful attack against the Autobots was launched by [[Jhiaxus (G2)|Jhiaxus]], and Rodimus, along with a good number of the Autobot's forces were captured, the Wreckers (with Broadside now fully recovered from his wounds on Earth) carried on the fight on their own, single-handedly fending off thousands of [[Cybertronian (faction)|Cybertronians]] while also desabalizing Jhiaxus's [[Hub (G2)|Hub Network]]. All while looking totally badass. When Rodimus and the others managed to free themselves, Autobot and Wrecker alike fled from the Hub as it began to disintegrate. {{storylink|The War to End All Wars, Part 4}}<br /> <br /> Returning to Cybertron, the Autobots find the planet abandoned. Or so it seemed, as they were suddenly attacked by [[Shadow-leech]]es. As the Autobots held off the monsters, Perceptor came to the horrifying revelation that the Shadow-leeches were actually Cybertron's missing inhabitants, having been transformed by the [[Dark Matrix|Matrix's dark energy]]. As the Autobots' forces split up to cover multiple fronts, the Wreckers travel to Earth to recruit their human allies and team up to finally the up all lose ends. Upon successfully recruiting the humans, the Wreckers return through the space bridge they arrived in, taking the humans to Nebulos, where they dispatched a rampaging [[Fortress Maximus (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Fortress Maximus]], who had been possessed by the corrupted Matrix entity. Elsewhere, Rodimus defeated the Dark Matrix entity by sealing off their own universe from the rest of the multiverse, disconnecting them from Primus for good, causing the entity to die. However, without a connection to Primus, the Transformers' lifespans became decidedly finite, and over the eons all of the remaining Autobots and Decepticons, including the Wreckers, eventually died out from old age, a thing previously impossible due to their now-severed connection with Primus. {{storylink|The War to End All Wars, Part 5}}<br /> <br /> '''Known members:'''<br /> {{collist|3|<br /> *[[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]]<br /> *[[Kup (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Kup]] (second leader)<br /> *[[Leadfoot (G2)|Leadfoot]]<br /> *[[Rack'n'Ruin (G1)|Rack'n'Ruin]]<br /> *[[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]]<br /> *[[Sandstorm (G1)|Sandstorm]]<br /> *[[Springer (G1)|Springer]] (first leader)<br /> *[[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]]<br /> *[[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> =====''Transformers '84''=====<br /> [[File:Wreckers secrets and lies.jpg|thumb|upright=1.57]]<br /> When [[Punch (G1)|Punch]] had brought the news that [[Straxus (G1)|Straxus]] sought to reactivate [[Project Dreadnought]], he requested a dedicated wrecking crew from Ultra Magnus. Walking in at roughly the same time, Impactor and Roadbuster had a wave of inspiration. Rallying together some heavy-hitters, Impactor later retrieved Punch and introduced him to the Wreckers. {{storylink|Secrets &amp; Lies issue 3|Secrets &amp; Lies #3}}<br /> <br /> [[File:Wreckers punch terrorcons secrets and lies.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.7]]<br /> For their first mission as a team, the Wreckers deployed to the nerve centre of Project Dreadnought and split up to their designated holding positions until Impactor could think of an appropriate signal. When they encountered the [[combiner]] [[Abominus (G1)|Abominus]], left by Straxus to defend the site, he coined the phrase &quot;Wreckers! ''um''... wreck... ...and rule!&quot; and the team went to work with Topspin and Twin Twist heading underground while the others battled the gestalt. After Rack'n'Ruin managed to take Abominus down with a [[Hammer (weapon)|hammer]] to the face, Impactor and the others piled into battle with the [[Terrorcon (G1)|Terrorcons]] and [[Sinnertwin (G1)|Sinnertwin]] managed to bite off Impactor's hand while he was holding a [[harpoon]] gun, which went badly for Sinnertwin. This bought the Jumpstarters enough time to lay enough explosives to demolish the control centre, and the Wreckers returned to base victorious. {{storylink|Secrets &amp; Lies issue 4|Secrets &amp; Lies #4}}<br /> <br /> '''Known members:'''<br /> {{collist|3|<br /> *[[Impactor (G1)|Impactor]]<br /> *[[Rack'n'Ruin (G1)|Rack'n'Ruin]]<br /> *[[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]]<br /> *[[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]]<br /> *[[Twin Twist]]<br /> *[[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> ====3H comics====<br /> [[File:Wreckers3hlineup.jpg|upright=1.66|thumb|Now taking applications for: [[Cyclonus (G1)|Traitors]], [[Fractyl|Wimps]], and [[Alpha Trion (G1)|People Who Shouldn't Be Here]].]]<br /> After the end of the war, the [[Maximal High Council]] called the Wreckers back into service to protect the fragile peace that existed between [[Maximal]] and [[Predacon (BW)|Predacon]]. They were originally stationed in Delta Three within the [[Wrecker Command Base]], but would eventually relocate to Delta Five {{storylink|Apelinq's War Journals}} on the far side of Cybertron. {{storylink|Departure}} The war veteran and gifted engineer Apelinq was assigned to be a squad commander of this new iteration of the legendary Autobot strike force, and several of his former comrades were also drafted. [[Hot Rod (G1)|Rodimus]] was also added to the ranks of the Wreckers in a commanding role. {{storylink|Disclosure|Apelinq's extended profile}} By 316 A.U., there were at least seven Wrecker Squadrons. {{storylink|The Wreckers: Finale Part 1}}<br /> <br /> All but Rodimus and Apelinq were lost to [[Megatron (BW)/Beast Wars cartoon continuity|Megatron]]'s [[Vehicon (BM)|Vehicon forces]] and its [[transformation virus]]; by the time the foe was identified, many of the Wreckers had already fallen and Rodimus took the remainders bar Apelinq in a last-ditch strike in 316.247 AU. Rodimus' Matrix history left him immune to the virus and meant Apelinq could develop an inoculant, and meant they had a chance to find and save any survivors. Luckily, their depleted ranks were filled when a new horde of battle-hardened survivors—some brought by [[Primal Prime]] from the time-lost [[Beast Wars (event)|Beast Wars]]—surfaced in [[Polyhex]]. Around this time is when the team relocated from Delta Three to Delta Five, and Prime himself took command after an incident that sent Apelinq back in time. {{storylink|Apelinq's War Journals}} Apelinq eventually made it back via his own devices. In this troubled time, [[Decepticon]]s and [[Predacon (BW)|Predacons]] were also accepted into their ranks, including the Great War veterans [[Skywarp (G1)|Skywarp]] and [[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]]. {{storylink|Departure}}<br /> <br /> [[Cryotek (Universe)|Cryotek]] and the [[Quintesson]]s plotted to exploit this: the [[Oracle (BM)|Oracle]] [[shell program]] was placed on [[Vector Sigma]], allowing them to give false commands to any survivors and have Cybertron turned [[technorganic]], easier to conquer. Cyclonus was secretly working for them! {{storylink|Betrayal}} {{storylink|Disclosure}} (The technorganic shift was, in fact, part of [[Primus]]'s plan) {{storylink|Wreckers: Finale Part II}} The Wreckers were part of the many groups conned, sent off on a quest that would require fighting their way through the [[Vehicon (BM)|Vehicon]] guards at [[Shuttle Complex Ohm]]. A staggered batch of reinforcements turned a likely trap into victory {{storylink|Departure}} to the annoyance of the enemy conspirators, but Cyclonus successfully bombed their ship in secret to impair them. <br /> <br /> Five Wreckers died because of [[Packrat]] cowardly sacrificing them. This contributed to growing tension in the team. They made it to [[Akalo|Archa Nine]], home of the [[Divine Light]] power source that Cryotek coveted, and the team were so focused on Packrat that they didn't see Cyclonus coming! With the power source gone, the Wreckers could pretty much just mope. {{storylink|Betrayal}} Primal Prime took them on another quest, thinking he had an Oracle vision, and they found themselves on a planet where the Quintesson [[Al-Badur]] lived in exile. There, they learned of the true threat (and that ''Vector Sigma'' had sent Prime the message) and they'd need to get the hell back to Cybertron! {{storylink|Disclosure}}<br /> <br /> [[File:Chromutated.jpg|left|upright=1.4|thumb|&quot;We don't ''like'' out-of-towners!&quot;&lt;br&gt;&quot;WE PUNCH WHAT WE DON'T UNDERSTAND!!&quot;]]<br /> The Wreckers made it back in time to find the newly technorganic planet was facing an all-out Quintesson invasion and they joined the army in fighting back. They took the fight to Cryotek, who successfully used the Divine Light to gain access to Primus' power; luckily, his first act of demigodhood was to accidentally merge Apelinq and Primal Prime into [[Sentinel Maximus]]! {{storylink|The Wreckers: Finale Part 1}} While the two leaders threw down, the rest of the Wreckers fought Cyclonus, [[Chro]], and the Sharkticons. Mid-battle, [[Tap-Out (Universe)|Tap-Out]] and Skywarp went [[Cauldron|missing]] but the Wreckers still triumphed over these other foes. In the end, Cryotek was defeated by forcing him into an extradimensional portal and the Divine Light's divine power was drained off. The cost was Rodimus' life and Sentinel Maximus being lost along with Cryotek.<br /> <br /> The battle over, they mourned their lost comrades and went their separate ways in a new, peacetime Cybertron. {{storylink|Wreckers: Finale Part II}} (Well, ''briefly'' peacetime) {{storylink|Transformers: Universe (comic)|Universe}}<br /> <br /> '''Known members:'''<br /> {{collist|3|<br /> *[[Apelinq (BM)|Apelinq]]<br /> *[[Arcee (G1)|Arcee]]<br /> *[[CatSCAN]]<br /> *[[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]]<br /> *[[Devcon (G1)|Devcon]]<br /> *[[Dillo]]<br /> *[[Fractyl]]<br /> *[[Mol]]<br /> *[[Packrat]]<br /> *[[Primal Prime]]<br /> *[[Ramulus]]<br /> *[[Rav (BM)|Rav]]<br /> *[[Hot Rod (G1)|Rodimus]]<br /> *[[Rotorbolt (Universe)|Rotorbolt]]<br /> *[[Sentinel Maximus]]<br /> *[[Skywarp (G1)|Skywarp]]<br /> *[[Sonar (BW)|Sonar]]<br /> *[[Spittor (BW)|Spittor]]<br /> *[[Tap-Out (Universe)|Tap-Out]]<br /> *[[Tigatron]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> ====Dreamwave ''Generation One'' continuity====<br /> [[File:Wreckersdw.jpg|upright=1.4|thumb|The Wreckers: Featuring Ultra Magnus' Crotch.]]<br /> The Wreckers split from the Autobot forces after the disappearance of [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] in a [[space bridge]] explosion. Led by Springer, they clashed with [[Ratbat (G1)|Ratbat]]'s [[Ultracon]]s in the [[Tagan Heights]] for a time {{storylink|Transformers: War Within: The Dark Ages|War Within: The Dark Ages}} before reuniting with the Autobots and the [[Lightning Strike Coalition]] immediately prior to the Age of Internment. {{storylink|Transformers: War Within: The Age of Wrath|War Within: The Age of Wrath}}<br /> <br /> '''Known members:'''<br /> {{collist|3|<br /> *[[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]]<br /> *[[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]]<br /> *[[Sandstorm (G1)|Sandstorm]]<br /> *[[Springer (G1)|Springer]] (leader)<br /> *[[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]]<br /> *[[Twin Twist]]<br /> *[[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> Later on, during Shockwave's reign on Cybertron, the Wreckers whittled down to small but elite task force of Autobots dedicated to keeping the peace wherever (and however) necessary. The [[Triple Changer]]s left the group and Ultra Magnus stepped in to lead.<br /> <br /> '''Known members:'''<br /> {{collist|3|<br /> *Roadbuster<br /> *Topspin<br /> *Twin Twist<br /> *[[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] (leader)<br /> *Whirl<br /> }}<br /> <br /> When the [[Stunticon (G1)|Stunticons]] were released from imprisonment in Cybertron's [[Detention Banks]], the Wreckers responded in kind. This, however, was after [[Menasor (G1)|Menasor]] had already wiped out the [[Omnibot (G1)|Omnibots]] and defeated [[Defensor (G1)|Defensor]]. In the battle, both Whirl and Roadbuster were apparently killed before Ultra Magnus took charge and brought Menasor down. {{storylink|War and Peace}}<br /> <br /> ====2005 IDW continuity====<br /> {{quote|What do you '''mean''', it's a lost cause? Of '''course''' it's a lost cause. That's why we're '''here!'''|[[Springer (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Springer]], [[Stormbringer issue 2|Stormbringer #2]]}}<br /> <br /> {{quote|They give the Autobots something to ''believe in!'' And it's all thanks to [[Ironfist (G1)|you]]. Without Fisitron and his datalogs, the Wreckers would be nothing more than a bunch of ''thugs with a death wish.''|[[Verity Carlo]], &quot;[[Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 5|Last Stand of the Wreckers #5]]}}<br /> <br /> [[File:Wreckersstormbringer.jpg|left|upright=1.7|thumb|The IDW Wreckers are so hardcore they don't even need a spaceship. Except for when they [[Xantium (G1)|do]].]]<br /> The Wreckers are the Autobots who get called in when the odds of success are non-existent, but the job needs to be done anyway. The origin of the group is unknown, and for the longest time their existence was no more than a rumor, even among the ranks of their fellow Autobots. {{storylink|Zero Point}} Because of the extreme nature of their missions, the Wreckers have a low survival rate, around 38% to 42%, depending on who you ask. {{storylink|Dead Men's Boots}} All of the founding members have died (with one [[Valve|deliberately ignored exception]]), and the group's roster has gone through over eighteen iterations. Although every active member isn't always present for every mission, Springer once said Wreckers only leave the group ''for good'' in three ways: death, dementia, or dishonorable discharge. In fact, the one rule this &quot;No Rules&quot; team abides by is The Veto: any Wrecker can remove any other Wrecker from the roster at any time. {{storylink|Interiors}}<br /> <br /> The Wreckers' exploits have been lionized in the eyes of the rank and file by their unofficial biographer, &quot;[[Ironfist (G1)|Fisitron]]&quot;, and his ''[[Wreckers: Declassified]]'' datalogs. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 1|Last Stand of the Wreckers #1}} Before his death, Fisitron produced 331 datalog adventures for his heroes, cobbled together from data requests, mission reports and [[Autopedia]] bios about the Wreckers and their history. Many Autobots in the fleet subscribed to Fisitron's datalogs. They were an inspiration to the Autobots, heroes of daring exploits who never leave each other behind and always save the day... or so ''Wreckers: Declassified'' and the official line would tell them. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 5|Last Stand of the Wreckers #5}} {{storylink|Bullets}} In reality, the ''Declassifieds'' were full of embellishments and were quite sanitised. The dirtier the war got, the dirtier the Wreckers got, and they were always ''particularly'' dirty. Before they'd gone public, at least one Decepticon was caught wandering around, gibbering about Impactor's harpoons, before killing himself. {{storylink|Zero Point}}<br /> <br /> Among the many adventures chronicled by Fisitron were the Wreckers' battles with [[The Anguished]], an event involving Broadside and some [[Rada Mor|psychic explosives]], {{storylink|Bullets}} Impactor rescuing Xaaron from the [[Sonic Canyons]] (at which point he coined the battle cry of &quot;Wreck and rule!&quot;, while flying a [[sky-sled]] into a drilling platform) {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 2|Last Stand of the Wreckers #2}} and the [[Siege of T'Muk]]. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 1|Last Stand of the Wreckers #1}} Another episode involved Impactor rescuing hostages on the verge of an event horizon. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 2|Last Stand of the Wreckers #2}}<br /> <br /> [[File:RulesofDisengagement-BlackShadowvsWreckers.jpg|thumb|upright=2.2|right|Oh, and remember when Black Shadow blasted us all new ones? Good times.]]<br /> They were founded by [[Threnody]] {{storylink|Sins of the Wreckers issue 1|Sins of the Wreckers #1}} and [[Valve]] was part of his first squad. {{storylink|Zero Point}} The earliest version we've seen in action was the 11th iteration, led by Crest and consisting of Hyperion, Impactor, Valve, Piston, Rack, and at least one more member. They battled the Warriors Elite genocide specialist named [[Black Shadow (Victory)|Black Shadow]], and three Wreckers died in combat, including their leader Crest and Piston. {{storylink|Rules of Disengagement (issue)|Rules of Disengagement}} Hyperion, a known former Wreckers leader, likely succeeded Crest as commander.<br /> <br /> The roster continued to evolve, as Hyperion stepped down for reasons unknown, and Impactor went on to become the team's longest serving member and leader. The last surviving founding member, Valve, abandoned the Autobot cause and joined up with the Decepticons. He was responsible for founding and leading the Wreckers' opposite number, [[Squadron X]]. His betrayal cut so deep that the Wreckers collectively refuse to acknowledge his history with the group. {{storylink|Zero Point}} The reason for Valve's betrayal hasn't been explained, although considering that around this time the Wreckers recruited Whirl (a loose cannon indirectly responsible for the death of Valve's brothers, [[Wheelarch]] and [[Springarm]]), one could make an educated guess.<br /> <br /> [[File:RequiemoftheWreckers WreckersWelcome.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.5|WELCOME TO DIE!]]<br /> Following the battle of [[Sherma Bridge]] and after the public became aware of the Wreckers' existence, Impactor recruited Springer into the 17th iteration of the team. {{storylink|Transformers: Requiem of the Wreckers|Requiem of the Wreckers}} Springer rose quickly in the ranks, becoming Impactor's first officer and nicknamed &quot;his little green circuit booster&quot; after his knack for rallying the team's spirits. Unfortunately, the horrors of war began to weigh on Springer, as he saw the Wreckers straying further and further from the [[Autobot Code]]. He ignored the &quot;slips&quot; for some time, then began telling himself at least he was making sure (increasingly fewer) Decepticons were still alive in incredible pain or buried rather than being dead, and then he began saying that at least it wasn't ''him'' brutalising prisoners; but as Impactor's hatred of Squadron X became more bittered and obsessive, Springer's resolve began to shake. A watching Prowl began waiting hundreds of years for an excuse to bring them in. And eventually, the Wreckers began to outright ignore threats, even as grim as the [[Black Epoch]] and the ongoing [[Simanzi Massacre]], so they could continue tracking Squadron X. {{storylink|Zero Point}}<br /> <br /> After Springer was recruited, another Wrecker named Blocker succumbed to dementia and began cannibalizing his best friend. He was removed from the roster and replaced by Sandstorm. {{storylink|Zero Point}}<br /> <br /> [[File:LastStandoftheWreckers4-triumphoverevil.jpg|right|thumb|upright=1.66|This roster feels familiar.]]<br /> Twenty years before the [[Surge (event)|Surge]], the vendetta between Impactor and Squadron X came to an end on the neutral planet of [[Pova]]. The roster by this time included Springer, Roadbuster, Sandstorm, Whirl, Broadside, and the now conjoined Rack'n'Ruin. After being pursued across nine star systems, Squadron X was caught off-guard refueling their ship, the ''[[Pale Fire]]''. A battle ensued, and Impactor made the winning move by shooting through trapped Springer's back, taking the Squadron by surprise. The entire roster was captured and fitted with inhibitor claws by the Wreckers. Impactor proudly called in his catch to [[Autobot High Command]], but [[Prowl (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Prowl]] told him the unthinkable: they had to let Squadron X go. A non-interference pact made with the Povans made the capture illegal and a potential political nightmare, so Prowl ordered Impactor to release the Decepticons. Instead, Impactor took Roadbuster's gun and put himself in a room with the prisoners, executing each of them one at a time with a bullet through the brain module. Springer was nearly crippled by injuries he suffered during the fight, but as he dragged himself over to room, he saw Impactor standing over the bodies. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 5|Last Stand of the Wreckers #5}}<br /> <br /> Springer reported his superior officer to High Command, and Impactor was arrested under the [[Tyrest Accord]] for violating the Autobot Code and killing helpless prisoners. At the [[Aequitas]] trials, Springer's testimony sank any chances Impactor had of release, and he was sentenced to [[Garrus-9]]. A cover story was released that Impactor had been locked away for selling circuit boosters to the [[Chomskian]]s. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 2|Last Stand of the Wreckers #2}}<br /> <br /> [[File:Animals-RadarGatoraider.jpg|thumb|upright=1.4|left|&quot;FINISH HIM!&quot;]]<br /> Springer became the Wrecker leader after Impactor's arrest. He'd been asked to by the other Wreckers and thought that he could correct their increasingly immoral course; what he didn't know was that the other members were trying to cover up their collusion with Impactor's murders. They lavished praise on Springer in the hopes that he wouldn't demand they be prosecuted, too, and the hoodwinked Springer gave such a clear, unambiguous witness statement to the guilt-reading [[Aequitas]] that none of the others had to be plugged in to give an account. {{storylink|Zero Point}} Some time after Springer took command, Rack'n'Ruin lost their lives. {{storylink|Dead Men's Boots}} Despite the change in leadership, the Wreckers continued to operate in a brutal capacity, maintaining their fearsome reputation among Decepticons. In a particularly-violent raid on a squad led by [[Krok (G1)|Krok]], Roadbuster- high on [[Syk]], tore out [[Radar]]'s spine and made him ''eat it''. {{storylink|Animals}} <br /> <br /> Decades later, the Wreckers were assigned to [[Varas Centralus]] after the Decepticon [[Infiltration protocol|infiltration unit]] on that planet went to [[Phase Sixer|Phase Six]]. They were pulled out and sent back to [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] at the order of [[Optimus Prime (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Optimus Prime]] when the Autobot leader suspected that [[Thunderwing (G1)|Thunderwing]] might have been behind the disappearance of the [[Calabi-Yau]]. {{storylink|Stormbringer issue 2|Stormbringer #2}} The Wreckers arrived just in time to save [[Nosecone (G1)|Nosecone]] and [[Afterburner (G1)|Afterburner]]. They then proceeded to take [[Bludgeon (G1)|Bludgeon]]'s team apart without breaking a sweat. {{storylink|Stormbringer issue 3|Stormbringer #3}} Thunderwing was ''slightly'' more challenging, but the Wreckers suffered no apparent casualties. {{storylink|Stormbringer issue 4|Stormbringer #4}}<br /> <br /> [[File:SpotlightSideswipe ThunderwingVSWreckers.jpg|right|upright=1.6|thumb|]]<br /> When Thunderwing popped up again guarding a cave on [[Corata-Vaz]], Optimus Prime sent for the team once again. {{storylink|Spotlight: Cyclonus}} While they did not succeed in stopping Thunderwing themselves, they managed to survive until he was rendered inert by [[Jetfire (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Jetfire]]. {{storylink|Spotlight: Sideswipe}}<br /> <br /> Sometime later, some of the Wreckers were captured by the Decepticons. They were rescued by the remaining Wreckers, now led by [[Kup (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Kup]], [[Perceptor (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Perceptor]], and [[Drift (G1)|Drift]], who was acting independently. After this, Kup decided to form a new team that included Wreckers [[Springer (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Springer]] and [[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]]. {{storylink|Spotlight: Drift}}<br /> <br /> [[File:LastStandoftheWreckers1-newrecruits.jpg|thumb|upright=1.45|left|&quot;What's your name, soldier?&quot;&lt;br&gt;&quot;Parts, sir! Private Parts!&quot;]]<br /> After the great push by Megatron, Kup and Perceptor were made into Wreckers, with Ultra Magnus and [[Verity Carlo]] providing them with transport. Springer began to rebuild the Wreckers, compiling a list of potential recruits and sending them to Prowl for approval. Prowl substituted [[Ironfist (G1)|Ironfist]] in over Springer's choice of [[Skyfall (G1)|Skyfall]], but the other picks were given the green light. {{storylink|Out of Bullets}} Along with Ironfist, Wrecker reservists [[Guzzle (G1)|Guzzle]], [[Pyro (G1)|Pyro]], and [[Rotorstorm (G1)|Rotorstorm]] were added to the roster. Springer was becoming weary of assembling these teams, only to see them blown apart. <br /> <br /> The first mission by the new team was to travel to [[Garrus-9]] and bring it back under Autobot control. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 1|Last Stand of the Wreckers #1}} After the arrival of a battered Impactor, however, they discovered that the sociopathic [[Overlord (Masterforce)|Overlord]] had seized control of the facility and the whole place had gone mental. A report from Prowl also stated they needed to find &quot;[[Aequitas]]&quot;. Splitting into two teams, the Wreckers made planetfall {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 2|Last Stand of the Wreckers #2}} and soon became separated from each other. Perceptor's team were tasked to find Aequitas, but Springer abruptly changed strategy and split his group into two: one to find the prisoners, the other to &quot;get help&quot; from a maximum security cell. Perceptor's team succeeded—albeit with the loss of Rotorstorm to Overlord—but Springer, Impactor and Twin Twist were captured. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 3|Last Stand of the Wreckers #3}}<br /> <br /> [[File:LastStandoftheWreckers5- Ironfist Perceptor Verity.jpg|thumb|upright=1.6|right|]]<br /> Topspin willingly sacrificed himself to activate Aequitas, simultaneously killing Twin Twist due to their branched spark. Kup and Guzzle failed to find the help they were looking for, but managed to save Springer and Impactor from death by torture. As Springer's team faced down Overlord himself, the other Wreckers finished their mission by downloading Aequitas's data into Ironfist. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 4|Last Stand of the Wreckers #4}} Perceptor's group then went to aid the others in the battle against Overlord, with Pyro sacrificing himself in the process. Overlord effortlessly defeated most of the remaining Wreckers, but was eventually taken down thanks to Ironfist's connection to Aequitas. Garrus-9 was liberated, and miraculously, no further Wreckers had been killed in the fight with Overlord... though Springer was in a critical condition and Ironfist succumbed to a workplace injury and died on the way home. {{storylink|Last Stand of the Wreckers issue 5|Last Stand of the Wreckers #5}}<br /> <br /> Convinced that their leader, Springer, was a goner, Whirl used Roadbuster's [[Sparkeater (weapon)|Sparkeater]] to attempt to euthanize Springer. Instead he was caught in the act by Roadbuster and kicked out of the Wreckers. {{storylink|Interiors}} [[Rung (G1)|Rung]] later suggested to Roadbuster that reading something emotional could reactivate the leader of the Wreckers, so Roadbuster read datalogs from the ''Wreckers: Declassified'', to no avail. However, after Roadbuster confessed to Springer what the other Wreckers felt about what Impactor did, and called Springer their best leader, the comatose Autobot began showing signs of life. {{storylink|Zero Point}} <br /> <br /> Pardoned after Garrus-9, Impactor continued to wreck with Guzzle. The latter became increasingly blood-thirsty and large, and even Impactor, who'd made progress on giving up his overly violent ways, succumbed again.{{storylink|Escape (G1)|Escape}}<br /> <br /> [[File:Sins of the Wreckers2-everybody's unhappy.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.4|Ha, you expected that cool splash of the group from ''Sins'' #1? Tough luck, buster, you get a more accurate depiction of the Wreckers!]]<br /> Five years after Garrus-9, Prowl was abducted by the insane [[Tarantulas (BW)|Tarantulas]] and to get him back, a rejuvenated Springer assembled a new Wreckers team out of old guys and whoever happened to be around. For most members, this was more about keeping Prowl's secrets like the Aequitas data out of the public eye. {{storylink|Sins of the Wreckers issue 1|Sins of the Wreckers #1}} In true Wreckers fashion, this went horribly wrong for most people involved and the team were rapidly faced with their own psychological issues: Kup learning how he'd killed Autobots while mad, Guzzle in constant battle fury, and Roadbuster proving still willing to torture. Backing Tarantulas up were [[Mayhem Attack Squad|Mayhem]], whose leader [[Carnivac (G1)|Carnivac]] felt Springer should be with them. {{storylink|Sins of the Wreckers issue 2|Sins of the Wreckers #2}} Half the team invaded the [[Noisemaze]] to reach [[Tor|Tarantulas' base]] and were immediately defeated by its maddening environment, with the exception of Verity (human) and the frequency-blocking Hubcap. The latter was then seen with Tarantulas, while Springer, Arcee, and Roadbuster were plugged into the guilt-extracting [[Impetus]] to relive their worst sins.<br /> <br /> Impactor and Kup, meanwhile, had gone back to Debris: Impactor knew a little about the Noisemaze and had a 'backdoor' to it buried under his own in-waiting grave! {{storylink|Sins of the Wreckers issue 3|Sins of the Wreckers #3}}<br /> <br /> While in Impetus, Roadbuster relived the [[Roadbuster affair]], where he killed his assigned cadets in the name of [[Mortilus]], who spoke to him as a voice in his head. In reality, the voice was Tarantulas, shrunken down to a tiny size to whisper in his ear. One surviving cadet was Hubcap, who was incensed that Roadbuster served minimal time for his crimes, and fell in with Tarantulas to help punish those responsible, including Prowl. Verity revealed she is dying due to exposure from Aequitas' radiation and blackmailed Prowl as a cry for help. Impactor, Guzzle and Kup used a space portal to drag ''Debris'' into the Noisemaze and collapse it, while rescuing their comrades. Inside, they battled the Mayhems, including Tidal Wave. Hubcap had a change of heart and freed the captive Wreckers, who attacked Tarantulas while Prowl went with Hubcap back to ''Debris''. Roadbuster smashed into Tarantulas and they both fell out a window. In the confusion, Tarantulas shrunk and buried himself inside Roadbuster's head, expanding to full size and killing him. Prowl is talked out of killing Hubcap due to his possession of the Aequitas data, just before Impactor did the deed, as the info was just too dangerous for Hubcap to possess. As the Wreckers planned to blow up the Noisemaze and destroy all of Tarantulas's inventions, the spider returned and confronted them. {{storylink|Sins of the Wreckers issue 4|Sins of the Wreckers #4}} <br /> <br /> Using mass displacement, Tarantulas grew to massive size, while shrinking the Tor itself down to pocket size so that he could safely transport the facility out of the collapsing Noisemaze. He then turned on Arcee, Verity, and Prowl, gloating over how he healed Verity's illness purely to prove his intellect to Prowl. Springer planted explosives, while sending Impactor to deliver the Obtenteum and aid the others. Impactor revealed it was not Prowl who pushed Tarantulas into the Noisemaze all those years ago, but Impactor himself. At the sound of Springer's voice crackling over Impactor's comm, Tarantulas realized that Ostaros was not dead, but was now Springer. Tarantulas forgot his vengeance and instead climbed into the pit to reunite with his child. Prowl and Verity took the Obtenteum while the others battled Tarantulas. <br /> <br /> [[File:Sins05-guzzledies.jpg|thumb|right|upright=1.25|Dementia, dishonorable discharge, death.]]<br /> While Tidal Wave punched his way through ''Debris'', coffins spilled out and Verity was brought to tears as Ironfist's body landed right in front of her. Guzzle used his own cannon to blast himself up into the air, jamming the Obtenteum into Tidal Wave's mouth and driving him mad. This forced Carnivac to unwittingly play into the Wreckers' hands by using his Outlier power to forcibly convert Tidal Wave to whale mode. The g-forces of the giant's transformation—amplified by the Obtenteum, were the last push needed to trigger the Noisemaze's complete and irrevocable collapse. Arcee and Impactor escaped while Tarantulas leaped into the pit after Springer. Springer attacked and could no longer transmit his part of the call-and-response signal, forcing Impactor, with the utmost reluctance, to press the button to set off the explosives. Aboard the damaged ''Debris'' Guzzle threatened to kill Kup and Prowl as revenge for the deaths of his friends on [[Tsiehshi]] and Prowl's crimes. Impactor was forced to kill Guzzle to save them. Prowl ran back inside the Noisemaze before it collapsed and saved Springer's life. Kup and Arcee returned to Optimus Prime's ranks on Earth while Impactor took up Carnivac on his offer to join Mayhem, joining their crusade to bring down those in power who use 'bots like them as pawns. Back in Nome, Alaska, Verity and Springer stared up happily at the Northern Lights, enjoying the normalcy while it lasted. {{storylink|Sins of the Wreckers issue 5|Sins of the Wreckers #5}}<br /> <br /> [[File:RequiemoftheWreckers Wrookies.jpg|left|thumb|upright=1.2|]]<br /> Springer and Verity lived on their own for a bit, with Springer using his time to remotely train new Wreckers cadets, but the two were soon dragged into a new plot by Carnivac and Mayhem. After learning of Impactor's terrorist actions as part of Mayhem, Springer became disillusioned again by his former commander, but the two teamed up to save the kidnapped Verity from the survived Tarantulas and Overlord. To prevent Overlord from going back in time with Tarantulas' [[Timemaze]] portal, Impactor sacrificed himself to give Springer the opportunity to defeat the Phase-Sixer once and for all. With Tarantulas also having died and Mayhem in shambles, Springer decided to use the Timemaze to travel back and attempt to rewrite history so the war would never begin. He bid farewell to Verity and sent a message to his cadets, as well as all surviving Wreckers before he left. Springer begged them to honor the Wreckers' bloodstained legacy by forgetting it and stepped through the portal with the final advice &quot;Wreck the past, Rule your future.&quot; {{storylink|Transformers: Requiem of the Wreckers|Reqiuem of the Wreckers}}<br /> {{-}}<br /> <br /> '''Known members:'''<br /> {{collist|3|<br /> *[[Arcee (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Arcee]] (by association)<br /> *[[Blocker (G1)|Blocker]]<br /> *[[Breacher (G1)|Breacher]] (trainee)<br /> *[[Broadside (G1)|Broadside]]<br /> *[[Bulkhead (G1)|Bulkhead]] (trainee)<br /> *[[Crest]] (second known leader)<br /> *[[Guzzle (G1)|Guzzle]]<br /> *[[Hubcap (G1)|Hubcap]]<br /> *[[Hyperion (G1)|Hyperion]] (third known leader)<br /> *[[Impactor (G1)|Impactor]] (fourth known leader)<br /> *[[Ironfist (G1)|Ironfist]]<br /> *[[Kup (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Kup]] <br /> *[[Perceptor (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Perceptor]]<br /> *[[Piston (Wrecker)|Piston]]<br /> *[[Pyro (G1)|Pyro]]<br /> *[[Rack'n'Ruin (G1)|Rack'n'Ruin]]<br /> *[[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]]<br /> *[[Rotorstorm (G1)|Rotorstorm]]<br /> *[[Sandstorm (G1)|Sandstorm]]<br /> *[[Scoop (G1)|Scoop]]<br /> *[[Sixknight]]&lt;ref&gt;See [[Transformers: Requiem of the Wreckers#Errors|Requiem of the Wreckers]] under &quot;Errors&quot; for details&lt;/ref&gt; (trainee)<br /> *[[Springer (G1)/2005 IDW continuity|Springer]] (fifth known leader)<br /> *[[Stakeout (G1)|Stakeout]] (by association)<br /> *[[Strongarm (G1)|Strongarm]] (trainee)<br /> *[[Threnody]] (first known leader)<br /> *[[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]]<br /> *[[Twin Twist]]<br /> *[[Valve]]<br /> *[[Verity Carlo]]<br /> *[[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]]<br /> }}<br /> {{-}}<br /> <br /> ====''Cloud''====<br /> The Wreckers of [[Cloud World]] were a special Autobot unit tasked with defending the entire world of space-time from dangerous threats. Numerous harsh missions caused many of them to develop rather bad tempers.<br /> <br /> '''Known members:'''<br /> {{collist|3|<br /> *[[Ironfist (G1)|Ironfist]]<br /> *[[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]]<br /> *[[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]]<br /> *[[Twin Twist]]<br /> *[[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> ====''Wings Universe''====<br /> During the Great War, the Wreckers were Autobot elite commandos led by [[Impactor (G1)|Impactor]], who served as the opposite number to [[Macabre]] and his Decepticons in [[Squadron X]]. Their long struggle came to an unexpected end when Macabre set an ambush for the Wreckers on [[Torax Prime]] which they never walked into. Instead, the various members of Squadron X slowly turned against Macabre or went completely insane waiting for the Wreckers to show up. Impactor's squad eventually came to Torax Prime only after hearing about a massive explosion, caused when [[Earthquake (G1)|Earthquake]] strapped a couple of bombs to his chest and rushed Macabre in a demonstration of his dissatisfaction with the current mission. {{storylink|Tornado - Decepticon Saboteur}}<br /> <br /> The Wreckers' activities are largely undocumented beyond that, although centuries later, one group of Wreckers was led by [[Primal Prime]] during a [[Quintesson]] invasion. Shortly before or during [[2984]], [[Cheetor (BW)|Alpha Trizer]] recently reformed the Wreckers under Primal Prime's command and given the ship ''[[Rodimus Major]]'' to patrol distant corners of the galaxy in the name of peace (and give some of the more aggressive personalities on peacetime Cybertron an outlet). {{storylink|BotCon 2014|Primal Prime's customization class booklet}} {{storylink|Tornado - Decepticon Saboteur|Apelinq's personal logs}}<br /> <br /> Primal Prime invited [[Flareup (G1)|Flare-Up]] to join the Wreckers, but [[Ginrai (robot)|Ginrai]] had already recruited her for the [[Cybertronian Knight]]s.<br /> <br /> As the Knights responded with dread to an impending mandatory meditation session and lecture from Alpha Trizer, [[Devcon (G1)|Devcon]] quipped that the Wreckers had refused the assignment. <br /> <br /> When Ginrai called a red alert for what turned out to be a space fender-bender at a [[Nebulos]] spaceport, Apelinq reported that the Wreckers were two systems away. {{storylink|Tornado - Decepticon Saboteur|Apelinq's personal logs}}<br /> <br /> While journeying to check up on a Predacon colony near the [[Dark Nebula]], the ''Rodimus Major'' was caught in the gravity well of a wormhole anomaly. {{storylink|BotCon 2014|Primal Prime's customization class booklet}} With no hope of breaking free, Primal Prime ordered [[Fireflight (Universe Deluxe)|Fireflight]], the only Wrecker with personal FTL capability, to return at top speed to Cybertron with their logs. {{storylink|Tornado - Decepticon Saboteur|Apelinq's personal logs}}<br /> <br /> '''Known members: '''<br /> {{collist|3|<br /> *[[Backstop (G1)|Backstop]]<br /> *[[Buzz Saw (BW)|Buzzsaw]]<br /> *[[Devcon (G1)|Devcon]]<br /> *[[Drop Zone]]<br /> *[[Fireflight (Universe Deluxe)|Fireflight]]<br /> *[[Impactor (G1)|Impactor]]<br /> *[[Night Viper]]<br /> *[[Primal Prime]] (leader)<br /> *[[Quickstrike (BM)|Quickstrike]]<br /> *[[Hot Rod (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Rodimus Major]]<br /> *[[Stockade (Universe 2003)|Stockade]]<br /> *[[Tap-Out (Universe)|Tap-Out]] (second-in-command)<br /> *[[Tripwire (G1)|Tripwire]]<br /> *[[Wide Scope]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> ====Japanese Generation 1 cartoon continuity====<br /> When [[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]] and [[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]] were created in [[Legends World|another dimension]], ''Transformers'' nerd [[Waspinator (BW)|Waspinator]] identified them as Wreckers from [[#Marvel The Transformers comics|a British comic book]]. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 4|Bonus Edition Vol. 4}} The two accepted this as their origin story and, after traveling to the year 2004 of the [[G1 World]], introduced themselves as Wreckers to [[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]] and [[Twin Twist]]. [[Springer (G1)|Springer]] overheard their conversation and thought it was a really cool name for a team, so he founded his own Wreckers as a new Autobot unit and recruited all four of them. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 7|Bonus Edition Vol. 7}} {{storylink|Jumpstarter Chapter#LG-07 Jetfire Sequel|LG-07 Jetfire Sequel}} Springer's vague mission statement for the Wreckers was &quot;doing cool stuff&quot;, but [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Generation 1 cartoon continuity|Optimus Prime]] thought that was stupid and instead charged them with cleaning the area around [[Mount St. Hilary]]. As a result, a disappointed Springer left the team for a few years. {{storylink|Jumpstarter Chapter#G1 Wreckers Birth Story|G1 Wreckers Birth Story}}<br /> <br /> In the 2030s, the Wreckers traveled to the Legends World to defend it from [[Windblade (G1)|Windblade]] and [[Katsu Don]]. {{storylink|Jumpstarter Chapter#LG65 Twin Twist Prologue|LG65 Twin Twist Prologue}} Topspin and Twin Twist did most of the work thanks to having mastered the powers of the [[Zodiac]]. {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 65|Bonus Edition Vol. 65}} {{storylink|Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. 66|Bonus Edition Vol. 66}}<br /> <br /> '''Known members:'''<br /> {{collist|3|<br /> *[[Roadbuster (G1)|Roadbuster]]<br /> *[[Springer (G1)|Springer]]<br /> *[[Topspin (G1)|Topspin]]<br /> *[[Twin Twist]]<br /> *[[Whirl (G1)|Whirl]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> ====Ask Vector Prime====<br /> In [[Primax 208.06 Zeta]], the Wreckers were a resistance group led by [[Rodimus Primal]] that fought against [[Obsidian (BM)|Obsidian]]'s [[Vehicon (BM)|Vehicons]] on [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]. {{storylink|Ask Vector Prime#Facebook|Ask Vector Prime, 2015/08/16}}<br /> <br /> ====''Of Masters and Mayhem''====<br /> [[File:Toxic Transformer The Wreckers.jpg|thumb|left|upright=1.4|&quot;What are we, [[Avengers|a team]]? No, no, no. We're a chemical mixture that makes chaos. We're ... [[Wreckage (G1)|we're a time bomb.]]&quot;]]<br /> When the monstrous [[Thunder Mayhem]] destroyed Cybertron, Impactor gathered together a motley crew of survivors to get revenge. He doesn't care if you're a geochemist or a mass murderer, this is all revenge, all the time!<br /> <br /> [[File:LivelyPursuit Wreckers.jpg|thumb|upright=1.5|Wrecker's AA meeting.]]<br /> '''Known members:'''<br /> {{collist|3|<br /> *[[Impactor (G1)|Impactor]] (leader)<br /> *[[Punch (G1)|Counterpunch]]<br /> *[[Fractyl]]<br /> *[[Toxitron (G1)|Toxitron]]<br /> *[[Alpha Bravo]]<br /> *[[Offroad (Generations)|Offroad]]<br /> *[[Wreckage (G1)|Wreckage]] (ultimate weapon)<br /> *[[Bluestreak (G1)|Bluestreak]] <br /> }}<br /> {{-}}<br /> <br /> ====''Beast Wars: Uprising''====<br /> During the waning days of the [[Great War (G1)|Great War]], the Wreckers tried to stop an [[Underbase]]-powered [[Thunderwing (G1)|Thunderwing]] only to be wiped out. {{storylink|Not All Megatrons}}<br /> <br /> [[Grimlock (G1)|Grimlock]] mentioned he was a former Wrecker. {{storylink|Derailment}}<br /> <br /> ===''Shattered Glass''===<br /> The Wreckers were a band of mercenaries led by [[Rodimus (SG)|Rodimus]], who spent their time looting and pillaging the countryside. They approved of [[Optimus Prime (SG)|Optimus]]'s campaign of conquest, but initially preferred to remain autonomous.<br /> <br /> That is, until one fateful day when Optimus hired the Wreckers to fight alongside his Autobots at the battle of [[Praxus-Delta]]. The battle was brutal and resulted in every Wrecker except Rodimus meeting the fate of most Wreckers across the [[multiverse]] at the hands of the Decepticons. Rodimus impressed Optimus by remaining in the fight regardless, in order to fulfill the contract. Thanks to his efforts the Autobots escaped without further losses, and Optimus was so impressed that he offered Rodimus leadership of the [[Seeker (SG)|Seekers]], which the former Wrecker accepted. {{storylink|Rodimus (SG)#Timelines|BotCon 2008 Rodimus profile card}}<br /> <br /> After the [[Mayhem Suppression Squad]] had successfully turned back one of the Autobots' raids, [[Side Burn (SG)|Side Burn]] reminded Prime that he ''had'' recommended reforming the Wreckers as their best counter to the Squad.<br /> <br /> Later, when trying to convince [[Cliffjumper (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Cliffjumper]] and [[Sideswipe (SG)|Sideswipe]] to leave the Decepticons and join up with one of his power-grabbing schemes, Rodimus hearkened back to what was likely the Wreckers' old motto, when he told them that they'd have &quot;a whole planet ready to ''wreck-and-ruin''!&quot; {{storylink|Dungeons &amp; Dinobots}}<br /> <br /> ===''Animated'' cartoon===<br /> During the [[Great War (Animated)|Great War]], the Wreckers were a major problem for the Decepticons, operating behind their lines as a commando unit. They are noted for interrupting supply lines, destroying the mainframe on [[Bk'n]], and demolishing the shipyards of [[Salvvatan VI]]. They operated from the [[Omega Sentinel (Animated)|Omega Sentinel]] ship ''[[Zeta Supreme|Xantium]]'', which was bonded to [[Impactor Major]], apparently the leader of the team. Megatron created the [[Decepticon Heavy Brigade]] specifically to hunt down the Wreckers. When they finally met in battle, [[Blackout (Animated)|Blackout]] was the only survivor on either side. {{storylink|Transformers Animated: The AllSpark Almanac II|The AllSpark Almanac II}}<br /> <br /> ===Aligned continuity family===<br /> {{bigquote|Wreckers don't call for backup. They call for clean-up!|[[Wheeljack (Prime)|Wheeljack]] and [[Bulkhead (Prime)|Bulkhead]]|&quot;[[Loose Cannons]]&quot;}}<br /> [[File:ChainOfCommand Wreckers.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|On the count of three, everybody say &quot;Whirl sucks!&quot;]]<br /> The Wreckers traced their origins to [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]'s Age of Origins, emerging as a band of roving vigilantes that protected the primitive settlements of Cybertron from marauding and pillaging groups such as the [[Vandal]]s, [[Breaker (COP)|Breakers]], and [[Ravager]]s. When the [[Quintesson]]s arrived on Cybertron, they created an official planetary police force, branding the Wreckers as outlaws. The Wreckers did not take this well, later joining [[Sentinel Zeta Prime]]'s rebellion against the invaders. When the era of colonization began, the Wreckers protected the first duplicate [[Well of All Sparks]] on the planet [[Archon]] from religious doomsday cultists. {{storylink|Transformers: The Covenant of Primus|The Covenant of Primus}}<br /> <br /> During the era of the [[Functionism|caste system]], the Wreckers had become [[Autobot High Council|Council Guardians]], later siding with the Autobots in the [[Great War (Prime)|Great War]]. {{storylink|Transformers: Exodus|Exodus}} [[Bulkhead (Prime)|Bulkhead]] and [[Wheeljack (Prime)|Wheeljack]] were also members, though early on in the war Bulkhead left to join [[Team Prime]]. {{storylink|Con Job}} Wheeljack left when [[Ultra Magnus (WFC)|Ultra Magnus]] was appointed to lead the squad {{storylink|Chain of Command (Prime)|Chain of Command}} by [[Optimus Prime (WFC)|Optimus Prime]] with the hopes Magnus would be able to give the squad some discipline. {{storylink|Project Predacon}} The Wreckers took part in the siege of the [[Hydrax Plateau]]. Afterwards, they were all that stood between [[Devastator (WFC)|Devastator]] and the [[Tagan Heights]] before [[Defensor (WFC)|Defensor]] arrived. They guarded the [[Well of All Sparks]] when [[Optimus Prime (WFC)|Optimus Prime]] descended through it to free the [[core]] of its suffocation by [[Dark Energon]]. Ultra Magnus, [[Springer (WFC)|Springer]], and other team members opted to remain behind to distract [[Trypticon (WFC)|Trypticon]] when the ''[[Ark (WFC)|Ark]]'' launched, gaining invaluable allies in [[Jetfire (WFC)|Jetfire]], [[Omega Supreme (WFC)|Omega Supreme]], and [[Alpha Trion (WFC)|Alpha Trion]]. {{storylink|Transformers: Exodus|Exodus}}<br /> <br /> After Cybertron went dark, Wheeljack traveled the stars and eventually found Bulkhead on [[Earth]]. {{storylink|Con Job}} He left shortly after their reunion and continued to search the galaxy. He eventually found [[Seaspray (Prime)|Seaspray]], but [[Dreadwing (Prime)|Dreadwing]] had found them both and promptly destroyed Seaspray's ship, killing the Wrecker. When Dreadwing made his way to Earth, Wheeljack followed to get his revenge. {{storylink|Loose Cannons}} The [[Insecticon (WFC)|Insecticon]] [[Hardshell]] noted that he had off-lined several Wreckers when fighting Bulkhead. {{storylink|Toxicity}} Miko was inducted as a Wrecker by Wheeljack after she off-lined Hardshell. {{storylink|Hurt}} At some point, [[Elite Guard]] graduate [[Smokescreen (Prime)|Smokescreen]] had studied every battle the Wreckers had been involved in. {{storylink|The Human Factor}} After arriving on Earth, Ultra Magnus again attempted to instill some discipline into Bulkhead and Wheeljack, but this only led to Wheeljack temporarily quitting the team. {{storylink|Chain of Command (Prime)|Chain of Command}} The Wreckers served as a vital asset to Team Prime during the twilight days of the war, usually handling large swaths of enemies on their own {{storylink|Evolution}} and proved instrumental in securing the ''[[Trypticon (WFC)|Nemesis]]'' during the final battle of the war. {{storylink|Deadlock}}<br /> <br /> '''Known members:'''<br /> {{collist|3|<br /> *[[Bulkhead (Prime)|Bulkhead]]<br /> *[[Fisitron (Timelines)|Fisitron]]<br /> *[[Hot Shot (Prime)|Hot Shot]]<br /> *[[Impactor (Prime)|Impactor]]<br /> *[[Jetfire (WFC)|Jetfire]]<br /> *[[Kup (WFC)|Kup]]<br /> *[[Miko Nakadai]]<br /> *[[Moonracer (COP)|Moonracer]]<br /> *[[Pyro (Prime)|Pyro]]<br /> *[[Rack n' Ruin]]<br /> *[[Roadbuster (Prime)|Roadbuster]]<br /> *[[Rodimus (WFC)|Rodimus]]<br /> *[[Rotorstorm (Prime)|Rotorstorm]]<br /> *[[Ruination (FOC)|Ruination]]<br /> *[[Seaspray (Prime)|Seaspray]]<br /> *[[Springer (WFC)|Springer]]<br /> *[[Topspin (FOC)|Topspin]] <br /> *[[Twintwist]]<br /> *[[Ultra Magnus (WFC)|Ultra Magnus]] (leader)<br /> *[[Wheeljack (Prime)|Wheeljack]]<br /> *[[Whirl (FOC)|Whirl]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> ===Live-action film series===<br /> {{bigquote|We don't let them off the base much 'cause they're assholes.|[[Charlotte Mearing]]|''[[Transformers: Dark of the Moon (film)|Dark of the Moon]]''}}<br /> [[File:DOTM-Leadfoot-Topspin.jpg|thumb|upright=1.66|How am I gonna stop some big, mean Mother Hubbard from tearing me a structurally superfluous new behind? The answer, use a gun. And if that don't work? Use more gun.]]<br /> The Wreckers, [[Leadfoot (DOTM)|Leadfoot]], [[Roadbuster (DOTM)|Roadbuster]], and [[Topspin (DOTM)|Topspin]], were a trio of engineering geniuses who came to Earth aboard the Autobot spaceship ''[[Xantium (DOTM)|Xantium]]''. The Wreckers rarely left the secret Autobot launch facility at Cape Canaveral, partially because caring for the ship dominated their time, and partially because they were assholes. The Wreckers helped engineer the Autobots' feigned exile from Earth and assassination by [[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]], and later participated in the battle for [[Chicago]]. They proved effective, if vicious, fighters, dismantling their fair share of Decepticons, challenging [[Shockwave (Movie)|Shockwave]] and rescuing [[Optimus Prime (Movie)|Optimus Prime]] from an embarrassing situation. All three of them would continue fighting and would be among the surviving Autobots, accepting Earth as their true home. {{storylink|Transformers: Dark of the Moon (film)|Dark of the Moon}}<br /> <br /> After the Battle of Chicago, [[Harold Attinger]] formed a secret faction of the CIA known as &quot;[[Cemetery Wind]]&quot; to hunt down all Transformers regardless of faction. Leadfoot was among the many casualties of the hunt, and his death was revealed to the surviving Autobots by [[Cade Yeager]]. [[Hound (Movie)|Hound]] sadly took off his hat in respect for his fallen friend, and Optimus Prime vowed to kill the person responsible for Leadfoot and the other's deaths. {{storylink|Transformers: Age of Extinction (film)|Age of Extinction}} <br /> <br /> Topspin was very fortunate, as he was given sanctuary in [[Cuba]] with [[Seymour Simmons]]. He spends most of his time pestering him to go to the beach or play volleyball for fun. {{storylink|Transformers: The Last Knight (film)|The Last Knight}}<br /> <br /> '''Known members:'''<br /> {{collist|3|<br /> *[[Roadbuster (DOTM)|Roadbuster]]<br /> *[[Leadfoot (DOTM)|Leadfoot]]<br /> *[[Topspin (DOTM)|Topspin]] <br /> }}<br /> <br /> ====''Bot Shots''====<br /> The Wreckers were an elite Autobot fighting force famed for their habit of not fighting fair. {{storylink|Topspin (DOTM)|Topspin's online bio}}<br /> <br /> '''Known members:'''<br /> *[[Roadbuster (DOTM)|Roadbuster]]<br /> *[[Leadfoot (DOTM)|Leadfoot]]<br /> *[[Topspin (DOTM)|Topspin]]<br /> *[[Steeljaw (DOTM)|Steeljaw]] (pet)<br /> {{-}}<br /> <br /> ===''Angry Birds Transformers''===<br /> [[File:ABTF-screen WreckerSquad.jpg|upright=1.6|thumb]]<br /> Yes, even the inhabitants of [[Piggy Island]] have their version of the Wreckers! This Squad of [[Autobird]]s is famed for toppling towers and popping [[Minion Pig]]s aplenty... and when they're all together, earning more gold coins in the process. Cha-ching! {{storylink|Angry Birds Transformers (mobile game)|Angry Birds Transformers}}<br /> <br /> '''Known members:'''<br /> *[[Stella (AB)#As Moonracer|Moonracer]]<br /> *[[Chuck (AB)#As Rodimus|Rodimus]]<br /> *[[Red (AB)#As Ultra Magnus|Ultra Magnus]]<br /> *[[Bomb (AB)#As Wheeljack|Wheeljack]]<br /> {{-}}<br /> <br /> ==Games==<br /> ===''Transformers: Earth Wars''===<br /> When [[Optimus Primal (BW)|Optimus Primal]] convinced his comrades to go and help [[Sentius Magnus]], [[Springer (G1)|Springer]] agreed by &quot;the Wrecker way&quot;. {{storylink|Transformers: Earth Wars|Equilibrium}}<br /> <br /> ==Notes==<br /> *The ''Wings Universe'' Wreckers were supposed to feature in &quot;[[Cybertron's Most Wanted]]&quot; following their mentions in &quot;[[Tornado - Decepticon Saboteur]]&quot;, but an art coordination error prevented this from happening.&lt;ref&gt;[https://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/135573-wings-universecannonball-loose-ends/?p=3406288 Post by NightViper (Jesse Wittenrich) on the Allspark Forums, 2016/12/23]&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Foreign names===<br /> *''Japanese:'' '''Wreckers''' (レッカーズ ''Rekkāzu'')<br /> *''German:'' '''Schrotter''' (&quot;Wrecker&quot;)<br /> *''Hungarian:'' '''Rontók''' (&quot;Ruiners&quot;)<br /> *''Italian:'' '''Demolitori''' (&quot;Demolishers&quot;)<br /> *''Korean:'' '''Wreckers''' (레커즈 ''Lekeojeu'')<br /> *''Mandarin:'' '''Léitíng Zhěngjiù Duì''' (China, 雷霆拯救队, &quot;Lightning Rescue Team&quot;), '''Huíshōu Jiùyuán Duì''' (China, 回收救援队, &quot;Reclaim &amp; Rescue Team&quot;)<br /> *''Turkish:'' '''Yıkıcılar''' (&quot;Wreckers&quot;)<br /> <br /> ==References==<br /> {{reflist}}<br /> <br /> [[Category:Animated subgroups]]<br /> [[Category:Autobot subgroups]]<br /> [[Category:Beast Machines]]<br /> [[Category:Beast Wars: Uprising subgroups]]<br /> [[Category:Dark of the Moon subgroups]]<br /> [[Category:Fall of Cybertron subgroups]]<br /> [[Category:Generation 1 subgroups]]<br /> [[Category:Prime subgroups]]<br /> [[Category:Shattered Glass subgroups]]<br /> [[Category:Subgroups]]<br /> [[Category:Universe (2003)]]<br /> [[Category:Wreckers| ]]<br /> [[Category:War for Cybertron subgroups]]<br /> [[Category:Wings Universe subgroups]]</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User:Suki_Brits&diff=1272614 2018-08-01T21:23:49Z

<p>Suki Brits: Replacing nearly DECADE OLD INFORMATION</p> <hr /> <div>'''Suki Brits''' used to be an admin on this wiki, but now she isn't!</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=Mega_Spice_--_The_Transformer_Your_Fan_Could_Be_Like&diff=544027 2011-01-15T07:16:02Z

<p>Suki Brits: Undo revision 544023 by Detour (Talk) Are you seriously getting into a revert war over a single extra link? Seriously, Detour? Man, knock it off.</p> <hr /> <div>{{episode<br /> |prev=BotCon 2010 Promo<br /> |image=MegaSpice Megatron with magazine.jpg<br /> |caption=I only buy it for the articles, of course.<br /> |title=&quot;Mega Spice -- The Transformer Your Fan Could Be Like&quot;<br /> |directed by=[[Randall Ng]]<br /> |airdate=[[October 1]], [[2010]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> '''Megatron beats a cultural dead horse.'''<br /> <br /> ==Synopsis==<br /> <br /> ==Stats==<br /> '''Concept by:''' [[Randall Ng]]&lt;br&gt;<br /> '''Voices by:''' [[DR.SMOOV]] &lt;br&gt;<br /> '''Written by:''' [[Pete Sinclair]], [[DR.SMOOV]] and [[Randall Ng]]&lt;br&gt;<br /> '''Character and animation by:''' [[Randall Ng]]&lt;br&gt;<br /> '''Sound by:''' [[DR.SMOOV]]&lt;br&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Featured characters==<br /> {{featuredcharacters|<br /> |c2=<br /> *[[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] (1)<br /> *[[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] (2)<br /> }}<br /> <br /> ==Notes==<br /> <br /> ==External links==<br /> * [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBfLxgvT-w0 &quot;Mega Spice -- The Transformer Your Fan Could Be Like&quot; on YouTube]<br /> * [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCuP1UrBzW4 &quot;Transformers MegaSpice&quot; (credits version on the NGSMOOV YouTube page]<br /> <br /> {{Stub}}<br /> <br /> [[Category:Generation 1 episodes]]<br /> [[Category:Timelines]]</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.js&diff=460739 2010-05-26T23:33:48Z

<p>Suki Brits: Changing to inline.</p> <hr /> <div>/* Blatantly based on Wookiepedia's ShowEras */ <br /> function showTitles(className) { <br /> if(typeof(SKIP_ERAS) != 'undefined' &amp;&amp; SKIP_ERAS) <br /> return; <br /> <br /> var titleDiv = document.getElementById(className); <br /> <br /> if(titleDiv == null || titleDiv == undefined) <br /> return; <br /> <br /> var cloneNode = titleDiv.cloneNode(true); <br /> var firstHeading = getFirstHeading(); <br /> firstHeading.insertBefore(cloneNode, firstHeading.childNodes[0]); <br /> cloneNode.style.display = &quot;block&quot;; <br /> }// END JavaScript title rewrite <br /> <br /> function getFirstHeading(){ <br /> var a = getElementsByClassName(document.getElementById('content'), 'h1', 'firstHeading'); <br /> return a[0]; <br /> }<br /> <br /> /* Code for hiding segments */<br /> function hide_block(id) {<br /> document.getElementById(id).style.display = &quot;inline&quot;;<br /> document.getElementById(id + &quot;-link&quot;).style.display = &quot;none&quot;;<br /> }<br /> <br /> function replace_hides() {<br /> var hide_blocks = getElementsByClassName(document, &quot;div&quot;, &quot;hide&quot;);<br /> for (var i=0;i&lt;hide_blocks.length;i++) { <br /> var hide_link = document.createElement(&quot;div&quot;); <br /> hide_link.innerHTML = &quot;&lt;a href='javascript:hide_block(\&quot;&quot; + hide_blocks[i].getAttribute(&quot;id&quot;) + &quot;\&quot;);' id='&quot; + hide_blocks[i].getAttribute(&quot;id&quot;) + &quot;-link'&gt;&lt;i&gt;Show hidden content.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&quot;; <br /> hide_blocks[i].parentNode.insertBefore(hide_link, hide_blocks[i]);<br /> hide_blocks[i].style.display = &quot;none&quot;;<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> function tfwiki_hooks() {<br /> showTitles('title-factionicons');<br /> replace_hides();<br /> }<br /> <br /> addOnloadHook(tfwiki_hooks);<br /> <br /> /* ========== Upload preview ==========<br /> ========== -BEGIN- ==========<br /> ========== CODE IS UNREVIEWED ========== */<br /> <br /> <br /> /**<br /> * Live preview script for MediaWiki<br /> *<br /> * 2007-04-25 – Nikerabbit:<br /> * Worked around text cutoff in mozilla-based browsers<br /> * Support for categories<br /> */<br /> <br /> <br /> lpIdPreview = 'wikiPreview';<br /> lpIdCategories = 'catlinks';<br /> lpIdDiff = 'wikiDiff';<br /> <br /> /*<br /> * Returns XMLHttpRequest based on browser support or null<br /> */<br /> function openXMLHttpRequest() {<br /> if( window.XMLHttpRequest ) {<br /> return new XMLHttpRequest();<br /> } else if( window.ActiveXObject &amp;&amp; navigator.platform != 'MacPPC' ) {<br /> // IE/Mac has an ActiveXObject but it doesn't work.<br /> return new ActiveXObject(&quot;Microsoft.XMLHTTP&quot;);<br /> } else {<br /> return null;<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> /**<br /> * Returns true if could open the request,<br /> * false otherwise (eg no browser support).<br /> */<br /> function lpDoPreview(text, postUrl) {<br /> lpRequest = openXMLHttpRequest();<br /> if( !lpRequest ) return false;<br /> <br /> lpRequest.onreadystatechange = lpStatusUpdate;<br /> lpRequest.open(&quot;POST&quot;, postUrl, true);<br /> <br /> var postData = 'wpTextbox1=' + encodeURIComponent(text);<br /> lpRequest.setRequestHeader(&quot;Content-Type&quot;, &quot;application/x-www-form-urlencoded&quot;);<br /> lpRequest.send(postData);<br /> return true;<br /> }<br /> <br /> function lpStatusUpdate() {<br /> <br /> /* We are at some stage of loading */<br /> if (lpRequest.readyState &gt; 0 &amp;&amp; lpRequest.readyState &lt; 4) {<br /> notify(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageLoading));<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* Not loaded yet */<br /> if(lpRequest.readyState != 4) {<br /> return;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* We got response, bug it not what we wanted */<br /> if( lpRequest.status != 200 ) {<br /> var keys = new Array();<br /> keys[0] = lpRequest.status;<br /> keys[1] = lpRequest.statusText;<br /> window.alert(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageError, keys));<br /> lpShowNormalPreview();<br /> return;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* All good */<br /> dismissNotify(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageReady), 750);<br /> <br /> <br /> var XMLObject = lpRequest.responseXML.documentElement;<br /> <br /> <br /> /* Work around Firefox (Gecko?) limitation where it shows only the first 4096<br /> * bytes of data. Ref: http://www.thescripts.com/forum/thread482760.html<br /> */<br /> XMLObject.normalize();<br /> <br /> var previewElement = XMLObject.getElementsByTagName('preview')[0];<br /> var categoryElement = XMLObject.getElementsByTagName('category')[0];<br /> <br /> /* Hide the active diff if it exists */<br /> var diff = document.getElementById(lpIdDiff);<br /> if ( diff ) { diff.style.display = 'none'; }<br /> <br /> /* Inject preview */<br /> var previewContainer = document.getElementById( lpIdPreview );<br /> if ( previewContainer &amp;&amp; previewElement ) {<br /> previewContainer.innerHTML = previewElement.firstChild.data;<br /> previewContainer.style.display = 'block';<br /> } else {<br /> /* Should never happen */<br /> window.alert(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageFailed));<br /> lpShowNormalPreview();<br /> return;<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> /* Inject categories */<br /> var categoryContainer = document.getElementById( lpIdCategories );<br /> if ( categoryElement &amp;&amp; categoryElement.firstChild ) {<br /> if ( categoryContainer ) {<br /> categoryContainer.innerHTML = categoryElement.firstChild.data;<br /> /* May be hidden */<br /> categoryContainer.style.display = 'block';<br /> } else {<br /> /* Just dump them somewhere */<br /> /* previewContainer.innerHTML += categoryElement.firstChild.data;*/<br /> }<br /> } else {<br /> /* Nothing to show, hide old data */<br /> if ( categoryContainer ) {<br /> categoryContainer.style.display = 'none';<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> }<br /> <br /> function lpShowNormalPreview() {<br /> var fallback = document.getElementById('wpPreview');<br /> if ( fallback ) { fallback.style.display = 'inline'; }<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> // TODO: move elsewhere<br /> /* Small non-intrusive popup which can be used for example to notify the user<br /> * about completed AJAX action. Supports only one notify at a time.<br /> */<br /> function notify(message) {<br /> var notifyElement = document.getElementById('mw-js-notify');<br /> if ( !notifyElement ) {<br /> createNotify();<br /> var notifyElement = document.getElementById('mw-js-notify');<br /> }<br /> notifyElement.style.display = 'block';<br /> notifyElement.innerHTML = message;<br /> }<br /> <br /> function dismissNotify(message, timeout) {<br /> var notifyElement = document.getElementById('mw-js-notify');<br /> if ( notifyElement ) {<br /> if ( timeout == 0 ) {<br /> notifyElement.style.display = 'none';<br /> } else {<br /> notify(message);<br /> setTimeout(&quot;dismissNotify('', 0)&quot;, timeout);<br /> }<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> function createNotify() {<br /> var div = document.createElement(&quot;div&quot;);<br /> var txt = '###PLACEHOLDER###'<br /> var txtNode = document.createTextNode(txt);<br /> div.appendChild(txtNode);<br /> div.id = 'mw-js-notify';<br /> // TODO: move styles to css<br /> div.setAttribute('style',<br /> 'display: none; position: fixed; bottom: 0px; right: 0px; color: white; background-color: DarkRed; z-index: 5; padding: 0.1em 1em 0.1em 1em; font-size: 120%;');<br /> var body = document.getElementsByTagName('body')[0];<br /> body.appendChild(div);<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> /* Helper function similar to wfMsgReplaceArgs() */<br /> function i18n(message, keys) {<br /> var localMessage = message;<br /> if ( !keys ) { return localMessage; }<br /> for( var i = 0; i &lt; keys.length; i++) {<br /> var myregexp = new RegExp(&quot;\\$&quot;+(i+1), 'g');<br /> localMessage = localMessage.replace(myregexp, keys[i]);<br /> }<br /> return localMessage;<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> if (wgCanonicalNamespace == 'Special' &amp;&amp; wgCanonicalSpecialPageName == 'Upload'){<br /> addOnloadHook(uploadPreviewInit)<br /> //prepare Mediawiki Live Preview<br /> wgLivepreviewMessageLoading = 'Wait...'<br /> wgLivepreviewMessageReady = 'Done'<br /> document.write('&lt;script type= &quot;text/javascript&quot; src=&quot;/skins-1.5/common/preview.js&quot;&gt;&lt;/script&gt;')<br /> }<br /> <br /> function uploadPreviewInit(){<br /> wpUploadDescription = document.getElementById('wpUploadDescription') //global var<br /> var but = document.createElement('input')<br /> but.type = 'button'<br /> but.value='Preview'<br /> but.onclick=uploadPreviewDo<br /> wpUploadDescription.parentNode.insertBefore(but, wpUploadDescription.nextSibling)<br /> }<br /> <br /> function uploadPreviewDo(){<br /> if (!window.wikiPreview) //create preview div<br /> wikiPreview = document.createElement('div')<br /> wikiPreview.id = 'wikiPreview'<br /> wpUploadDescription.parentNode.insertBefore(wikiPreview, wpUploadDescription.nextSibling.nextSibling)<br /> lpDoPreview(wpUploadDescription.value, '/w2/index.php?action=submit&amp;live')<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* ========== Upload preview ==========<br /> ========== -End- ==========<br /> ========== CODE IS UNREVIEWED ========== */</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=Template_talk:Hide&diff=460496 2010-05-26T01:09:26Z

<p>Suki Brits: New page: Thanks, Abates. I&#039;ve apparently completely forgotten how to do anything with the DOM without jQuery. Durr. --~~~~</p> <hr /> <div>Thanks, Abates. I've apparently completely forgotten how to do anything with the DOM without jQuery. Durr. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 21:09, 25 May 2010 (EDT)</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=Template:Hide&diff=460479 2010-05-26T00:25:14Z

<p>Suki Brits: documenting</p> <hr /> <div>&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;tt&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{hide|reindeer|<br /> * Dasher<br /> * Dancer<br /> * Prancer<br /> * Vixen<br /> * Comet<br /> * Cupid<br /> * Donner<br /> * Blitzen<br /> }}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/pre&gt;&lt;/tt&gt;<br /> <br /> {{hide|reindeer|<br /> * Dasher<br /> * Dancer<br /> * Prancer<br /> * Vixen<br /> * Comet<br /> * Cupid<br /> * Donner<br /> * Blitzen<br /> }}<br /> <br /> '''&lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{hide}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt;''': does exactly what it says. You can't rehide the block after it's been shown, but it's useful for hiding obnoxiously long lists. The first parameter is a unique name, the second is what you can hide: this should be able to cover pretty much anything.<br /> <br /> If Javascript isn't enabled, the content will just be shown regularly, no matter what.<br /> [[Category:Layout templates]]<br /> &lt;/noinclude&gt;<br /> &lt;includeonly&gt;&lt;div id=&quot;{{{1}}}&quot; class=&quot;hide&quot;&gt;{{{2}}}&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/includeonly&gt;</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=Template:Hide&diff=460478 2010-05-26T00:22:17Z

<p>Suki Brits: Let&#039;s see if this works.</p> <hr /> <div>&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;tt&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{hide|reindeer|<br /> * Dasher<br /> * Dancer<br /> * Prancer<br /> * Vixen<br /> * Comet<br /> * Cupid<br /> * Donner<br /> * Blitzen<br /> }}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/pre&gt;&lt;/tt&gt;<br /> The first parameter is a unique name, the second is what you can hide: this should be able to cover pretty much anything. Useful for obnoxiously long lists.<br /> <br /> {{hide|reindeer|<br /> * Dasher<br /> * Dancer<br /> * Prancer<br /> * Vixen<br /> * Comet<br /> * Cupid<br /> * Donner<br /> * Blitzen<br /> }}<br /> <br /> [[Category:Layout templates]]<br /> &lt;/noinclude&gt;<br /> &lt;includeonly&gt;&lt;div id=&quot;{{{1}}}&quot; class=&quot;hide&quot;&gt;{{{2}}}&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/includeonly&gt;</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.js&diff=460476 2010-05-26T00:18:04Z

<p>Suki Brits: Uh... for reals this time.</p> <hr /> <div>/* Blatantly based on Wookiepedia's ShowEras */ <br /> function showTitles(className) { <br /> if(typeof(SKIP_ERAS) != 'undefined' &amp;&amp; SKIP_ERAS) <br /> return; <br /> <br /> var titleDiv = document.getElementById(className); <br /> <br /> if(titleDiv == null || titleDiv == undefined) <br /> return; <br /> <br /> var cloneNode = titleDiv.cloneNode(true); <br /> var firstHeading = getFirstHeading(); <br /> firstHeading.insertBefore(cloneNode, firstHeading.childNodes[0]); <br /> cloneNode.style.display = &quot;block&quot;; <br /> }// END JavaScript title rewrite <br /> <br /> function getFirstHeading(){ <br /> var a = getElementsByClassName(document.getElementById('content'), 'h1', 'firstHeading'); <br /> return a[0]; <br /> }<br /> <br /> /* Code for hiding segments */<br /> function hide_block(id) {<br /> document.getElementById(id).style.display = &quot;block&quot;;<br /> document.getElementById(id + &quot;-link&quot;).style.display = &quot;none&quot;;<br /> }<br /> <br /> function replace_hides() {<br /> var hide_blocks = getElementsByClassName(document, &quot;div&quot;, &quot;hide&quot;);<br /> for (var i=0;i&lt;hide_blocks.length;i++) { <br /> var hide_link = document.createElement(&quot;div&quot;); <br /> hide_link.innerHTML = &quot;&lt;a href='javascript:hide_block(\&quot;&quot; + hide_blocks[i].attributes[0].nodeValue + &quot;\&quot;);' id='&quot; + hide_blocks[i].attributes[0].nodeValue + &quot;-link'&gt;&lt;i&gt;Show hidden content.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&quot;; <br /> hide_blocks[i].parentNode.insertBefore(hide_link, hide_blocks[i]);<br /> hide_blocks[i].style.display = &quot;none&quot;;<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> function tfwiki_hooks() {<br /> showTitles('title-factionicons');<br /> replace_hides();<br /> }<br /> <br /> addOnloadHook(tfwiki_hooks);<br /> <br /> /* ========== Upload preview ==========<br /> ========== -BEGIN- ==========<br /> ========== CODE IS UNREVIEWED ========== */<br /> <br /> <br /> /**<br /> * Live preview script for MediaWiki<br /> *<br /> * 2007-04-25 – Nikerabbit:<br /> * Worked around text cutoff in mozilla-based browsers<br /> * Support for categories<br /> */<br /> <br /> <br /> lpIdPreview = 'wikiPreview';<br /> lpIdCategories = 'catlinks';<br /> lpIdDiff = 'wikiDiff';<br /> <br /> /*<br /> * Returns XMLHttpRequest based on browser support or null<br /> */<br /> function openXMLHttpRequest() {<br /> if( window.XMLHttpRequest ) {<br /> return new XMLHttpRequest();<br /> } else if( window.ActiveXObject &amp;&amp; navigator.platform != 'MacPPC' ) {<br /> // IE/Mac has an ActiveXObject but it doesn't work.<br /> return new ActiveXObject(&quot;Microsoft.XMLHTTP&quot;);<br /> } else {<br /> return null;<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> /**<br /> * Returns true if could open the request,<br /> * false otherwise (eg no browser support).<br /> */<br /> function lpDoPreview(text, postUrl) {<br /> lpRequest = openXMLHttpRequest();<br /> if( !lpRequest ) return false;<br /> <br /> lpRequest.onreadystatechange = lpStatusUpdate;<br /> lpRequest.open(&quot;POST&quot;, postUrl, true);<br /> <br /> var postData = 'wpTextbox1=' + encodeURIComponent(text);<br /> lpRequest.setRequestHeader(&quot;Content-Type&quot;, &quot;application/x-www-form-urlencoded&quot;);<br /> lpRequest.send(postData);<br /> return true;<br /> }<br /> <br /> function lpStatusUpdate() {<br /> <br /> /* We are at some stage of loading */<br /> if (lpRequest.readyState &gt; 0 &amp;&amp; lpRequest.readyState &lt; 4) {<br /> notify(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageLoading));<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* Not loaded yet */<br /> if(lpRequest.readyState != 4) {<br /> return;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* We got response, bug it not what we wanted */<br /> if( lpRequest.status != 200 ) {<br /> var keys = new Array();<br /> keys[0] = lpRequest.status;<br /> keys[1] = lpRequest.statusText;<br /> window.alert(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageError, keys));<br /> lpShowNormalPreview();<br /> return;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* All good */<br /> dismissNotify(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageReady), 750);<br /> <br /> <br /> var XMLObject = lpRequest.responseXML.documentElement;<br /> <br /> <br /> /* Work around Firefox (Gecko?) limitation where it shows only the first 4096<br /> * bytes of data. Ref: http://www.thescripts.com/forum/thread482760.html<br /> */<br /> XMLObject.normalize();<br /> <br /> var previewElement = XMLObject.getElementsByTagName('preview')[0];<br /> var categoryElement = XMLObject.getElementsByTagName('category')[0];<br /> <br /> /* Hide the active diff if it exists */<br /> var diff = document.getElementById(lpIdDiff);<br /> if ( diff ) { diff.style.display = 'none'; }<br /> <br /> /* Inject preview */<br /> var previewContainer = document.getElementById( lpIdPreview );<br /> if ( previewContainer &amp;&amp; previewElement ) {<br /> previewContainer.innerHTML = previewElement.firstChild.data;<br /> previewContainer.style.display = 'block';<br /> } else {<br /> /* Should never happen */<br /> window.alert(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageFailed));<br /> lpShowNormalPreview();<br /> return;<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> /* Inject categories */<br /> var categoryContainer = document.getElementById( lpIdCategories );<br /> if ( categoryElement &amp;&amp; categoryElement.firstChild ) {<br /> if ( categoryContainer ) {<br /> categoryContainer.innerHTML = categoryElement.firstChild.data;<br /> /* May be hidden */<br /> categoryContainer.style.display = 'block';<br /> } else {<br /> /* Just dump them somewhere */<br /> /* previewContainer.innerHTML += categoryElement.firstChild.data;*/<br /> }<br /> } else {<br /> /* Nothing to show, hide old data */<br /> if ( categoryContainer ) {<br /> categoryContainer.style.display = 'none';<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> }<br /> <br /> function lpShowNormalPreview() {<br /> var fallback = document.getElementById('wpPreview');<br /> if ( fallback ) { fallback.style.display = 'inline'; }<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> // TODO: move elsewhere<br /> /* Small non-intrusive popup which can be used for example to notify the user<br /> * about completed AJAX action. Supports only one notify at a time.<br /> */<br /> function notify(message) {<br /> var notifyElement = document.getElementById('mw-js-notify');<br /> if ( !notifyElement ) {<br /> createNotify();<br /> var notifyElement = document.getElementById('mw-js-notify');<br /> }<br /> notifyElement.style.display = 'block';<br /> notifyElement.innerHTML = message;<br /> }<br /> <br /> function dismissNotify(message, timeout) {<br /> var notifyElement = document.getElementById('mw-js-notify');<br /> if ( notifyElement ) {<br /> if ( timeout == 0 ) {<br /> notifyElement.style.display = 'none';<br /> } else {<br /> notify(message);<br /> setTimeout(&quot;dismissNotify('', 0)&quot;, timeout);<br /> }<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> function createNotify() {<br /> var div = document.createElement(&quot;div&quot;);<br /> var txt = '###PLACEHOLDER###'<br /> var txtNode = document.createTextNode(txt);<br /> div.appendChild(txtNode);<br /> div.id = 'mw-js-notify';<br /> // TODO: move styles to css<br /> div.setAttribute('style',<br /> 'display: none; position: fixed; bottom: 0px; right: 0px; color: white; background-color: DarkRed; z-index: 5; padding: 0.1em 1em 0.1em 1em; font-size: 120%;');<br /> var body = document.getElementsByTagName('body')[0];<br /> body.appendChild(div);<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> /* Helper function similar to wfMsgReplaceArgs() */<br /> function i18n(message, keys) {<br /> var localMessage = message;<br /> if ( !keys ) { return localMessage; }<br /> for( var i = 0; i &lt; keys.length; i++) {<br /> var myregexp = new RegExp(&quot;\\$&quot;+(i+1), 'g');<br /> localMessage = localMessage.replace(myregexp, keys[i]);<br /> }<br /> return localMessage;<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> if (wgCanonicalNamespace == 'Special' &amp;&amp; wgCanonicalSpecialPageName == 'Upload'){<br /> addOnloadHook(uploadPreviewInit)<br /> //prepare Mediawiki Live Preview<br /> wgLivepreviewMessageLoading = 'Wait...'<br /> wgLivepreviewMessageReady = 'Done'<br /> document.write('&lt;script type= &quot;text/javascript&quot; src=&quot;/skins-1.5/common/preview.js&quot;&gt;&lt;/script&gt;')<br /> }<br /> <br /> function uploadPreviewInit(){<br /> wpUploadDescription = document.getElementById('wpUploadDescription') //global var<br /> var but = document.createElement('input')<br /> but.type = 'button'<br /> but.value='Preview'<br /> but.onclick=uploadPreviewDo<br /> wpUploadDescription.parentNode.insertBefore(but, wpUploadDescription.nextSibling)<br /> }<br /> <br /> function uploadPreviewDo(){<br /> if (!window.wikiPreview) //create preview div<br /> wikiPreview = document.createElement('div')<br /> wikiPreview.id = 'wikiPreview'<br /> wpUploadDescription.parentNode.insertBefore(wikiPreview, wpUploadDescription.nextSibling.nextSibling)<br /> lpDoPreview(wpUploadDescription.value, '/w2/index.php?action=submit&amp;live')<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* ========== Upload preview ==========<br /> ========== -End- ==========<br /> ========== CODE IS UNREVIEWED ========== */</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.js&diff=460475 2010-05-26T00:17:13Z

<p>Suki Brits: Oh... right. There we go.</p> <hr /> <div>/* Blatantly based on Wookiepedia's ShowEras */ <br /> function showTitles(className) { <br /> if(typeof(SKIP_ERAS) != 'undefined' &amp;&amp; SKIP_ERAS) <br /> return; <br /> <br /> var titleDiv = document.getElementById(className); <br /> <br /> if(titleDiv == null || titleDiv == undefined) <br /> return; <br /> <br /> var cloneNode = titleDiv.cloneNode(true); <br /> var firstHeading = getFirstHeading(); <br /> firstHeading.insertBefore(cloneNode, firstHeading.childNodes[0]); <br /> cloneNode.style.display = &quot;block&quot;; <br /> }// END JavaScript title rewrite <br /> <br /> function getFirstHeading(){ <br /> var a = getElementsByClassName(document.getElementById('content'), 'h1', 'firstHeading'); <br /> return a[0]; <br /> }<br /> <br /> /* Code for hiding segments */<br /> function hide_block(id) {<br /> document.getElementById(id).display = &quot;block&quot;;<br /> document.getElementById(id + &quot;-link&quot;).display = &quot;none&quot;;<br /> }<br /> <br /> function replace_hides() {<br /> var hide_blocks = getElementsByClassName(document, &quot;div&quot;, &quot;hide&quot;);<br /> for (var i=0;i&lt;hide_blocks.length;i++) { <br /> var hide_link = document.createElement(&quot;div&quot;); <br /> hide_link.innerHTML = &quot;&lt;a href='javascript:hide_block(\&quot;&quot; + hide_blocks[i].attributes[0].nodeValue + &quot;\&quot;);' id='&quot; + hide_blocks[i].attributes[0].nodeValue + &quot;-link'&gt;&lt;i&gt;Show hidden content.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&quot;; <br /> hide_blocks[i].parentNode.insertBefore(hide_link, hide_blocks[i]);<br /> hide_blocks[i].display = &quot;none&quot;;<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> function tfwiki_hooks() {<br /> showTitles('title-factionicons');<br /> replace_hides();<br /> }<br /> <br /> addOnloadHook(tfwiki_hooks);<br /> <br /> /* ========== Upload preview ==========<br /> ========== -BEGIN- ==========<br /> ========== CODE IS UNREVIEWED ========== */<br /> <br /> <br /> /**<br /> * Live preview script for MediaWiki<br /> *<br /> * 2007-04-25 – Nikerabbit:<br /> * Worked around text cutoff in mozilla-based browsers<br /> * Support for categories<br /> */<br /> <br /> <br /> lpIdPreview = 'wikiPreview';<br /> lpIdCategories = 'catlinks';<br /> lpIdDiff = 'wikiDiff';<br /> <br /> /*<br /> * Returns XMLHttpRequest based on browser support or null<br /> */<br /> function openXMLHttpRequest() {<br /> if( window.XMLHttpRequest ) {<br /> return new XMLHttpRequest();<br /> } else if( window.ActiveXObject &amp;&amp; navigator.platform != 'MacPPC' ) {<br /> // IE/Mac has an ActiveXObject but it doesn't work.<br /> return new ActiveXObject(&quot;Microsoft.XMLHTTP&quot;);<br /> } else {<br /> return null;<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> /**<br /> * Returns true if could open the request,<br /> * false otherwise (eg no browser support).<br /> */<br /> function lpDoPreview(text, postUrl) {<br /> lpRequest = openXMLHttpRequest();<br /> if( !lpRequest ) return false;<br /> <br /> lpRequest.onreadystatechange = lpStatusUpdate;<br /> lpRequest.open(&quot;POST&quot;, postUrl, true);<br /> <br /> var postData = 'wpTextbox1=' + encodeURIComponent(text);<br /> lpRequest.setRequestHeader(&quot;Content-Type&quot;, &quot;application/x-www-form-urlencoded&quot;);<br /> lpRequest.send(postData);<br /> return true;<br /> }<br /> <br /> function lpStatusUpdate() {<br /> <br /> /* We are at some stage of loading */<br /> if (lpRequest.readyState &gt; 0 &amp;&amp; lpRequest.readyState &lt; 4) {<br /> notify(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageLoading));<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* Not loaded yet */<br /> if(lpRequest.readyState != 4) {<br /> return;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* We got response, bug it not what we wanted */<br /> if( lpRequest.status != 200 ) {<br /> var keys = new Array();<br /> keys[0] = lpRequest.status;<br /> keys[1] = lpRequest.statusText;<br /> window.alert(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageError, keys));<br /> lpShowNormalPreview();<br /> return;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* All good */<br /> dismissNotify(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageReady), 750);<br /> <br /> <br /> var XMLObject = lpRequest.responseXML.documentElement;<br /> <br /> <br /> /* Work around Firefox (Gecko?) limitation where it shows only the first 4096<br /> * bytes of data. Ref: http://www.thescripts.com/forum/thread482760.html<br /> */<br /> XMLObject.normalize();<br /> <br /> var previewElement = XMLObject.getElementsByTagName('preview')[0];<br /> var categoryElement = XMLObject.getElementsByTagName('category')[0];<br /> <br /> /* Hide the active diff if it exists */<br /> var diff = document.getElementById(lpIdDiff);<br /> if ( diff ) { diff.style.display = 'none'; }<br /> <br /> /* Inject preview */<br /> var previewContainer = document.getElementById( lpIdPreview );<br /> if ( previewContainer &amp;&amp; previewElement ) {<br /> previewContainer.innerHTML = previewElement.firstChild.data;<br /> previewContainer.style.display = 'block';<br /> } else {<br /> /* Should never happen */<br /> window.alert(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageFailed));<br /> lpShowNormalPreview();<br /> return;<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> /* Inject categories */<br /> var categoryContainer = document.getElementById( lpIdCategories );<br /> if ( categoryElement &amp;&amp; categoryElement.firstChild ) {<br /> if ( categoryContainer ) {<br /> categoryContainer.innerHTML = categoryElement.firstChild.data;<br /> /* May be hidden */<br /> categoryContainer.style.display = 'block';<br /> } else {<br /> /* Just dump them somewhere */<br /> /* previewContainer.innerHTML += categoryElement.firstChild.data;*/<br /> }<br /> } else {<br /> /* Nothing to show, hide old data */<br /> if ( categoryContainer ) {<br /> categoryContainer.style.display = 'none';<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> }<br /> <br /> function lpShowNormalPreview() {<br /> var fallback = document.getElementById('wpPreview');<br /> if ( fallback ) { fallback.style.display = 'inline'; }<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> // TODO: move elsewhere<br /> /* Small non-intrusive popup which can be used for example to notify the user<br /> * about completed AJAX action. Supports only one notify at a time.<br /> */<br /> function notify(message) {<br /> var notifyElement = document.getElementById('mw-js-notify');<br /> if ( !notifyElement ) {<br /> createNotify();<br /> var notifyElement = document.getElementById('mw-js-notify');<br /> }<br /> notifyElement.style.display = 'block';<br /> notifyElement.innerHTML = message;<br /> }<br /> <br /> function dismissNotify(message, timeout) {<br /> var notifyElement = document.getElementById('mw-js-notify');<br /> if ( notifyElement ) {<br /> if ( timeout == 0 ) {<br /> notifyElement.style.display = 'none';<br /> } else {<br /> notify(message);<br /> setTimeout(&quot;dismissNotify('', 0)&quot;, timeout);<br /> }<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> function createNotify() {<br /> var div = document.createElement(&quot;div&quot;);<br /> var txt = '###PLACEHOLDER###'<br /> var txtNode = document.createTextNode(txt);<br /> div.appendChild(txtNode);<br /> div.id = 'mw-js-notify';<br /> // TODO: move styles to css<br /> div.setAttribute('style',<br /> 'display: none; position: fixed; bottom: 0px; right: 0px; color: white; background-color: DarkRed; z-index: 5; padding: 0.1em 1em 0.1em 1em; font-size: 120%;');<br /> var body = document.getElementsByTagName('body')[0];<br /> body.appendChild(div);<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> /* Helper function similar to wfMsgReplaceArgs() */<br /> function i18n(message, keys) {<br /> var localMessage = message;<br /> if ( !keys ) { return localMessage; }<br /> for( var i = 0; i &lt; keys.length; i++) {<br /> var myregexp = new RegExp(&quot;\\$&quot;+(i+1), 'g');<br /> localMessage = localMessage.replace(myregexp, keys[i]);<br /> }<br /> return localMessage;<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> if (wgCanonicalNamespace == 'Special' &amp;&amp; wgCanonicalSpecialPageName == 'Upload'){<br /> addOnloadHook(uploadPreviewInit)<br /> //prepare Mediawiki Live Preview<br /> wgLivepreviewMessageLoading = 'Wait...'<br /> wgLivepreviewMessageReady = 'Done'<br /> document.write('&lt;script type= &quot;text/javascript&quot; src=&quot;/skins-1.5/common/preview.js&quot;&gt;&lt;/script&gt;')<br /> }<br /> <br /> function uploadPreviewInit(){<br /> wpUploadDescription = document.getElementById('wpUploadDescription') //global var<br /> var but = document.createElement('input')<br /> but.type = 'button'<br /> but.value='Preview'<br /> but.onclick=uploadPreviewDo<br /> wpUploadDescription.parentNode.insertBefore(but, wpUploadDescription.nextSibling)<br /> }<br /> <br /> function uploadPreviewDo(){<br /> if (!window.wikiPreview) //create preview div<br /> wikiPreview = document.createElement('div')<br /> wikiPreview.id = 'wikiPreview'<br /> wpUploadDescription.parentNode.insertBefore(wikiPreview, wpUploadDescription.nextSibling.nextSibling)<br /> lpDoPreview(wpUploadDescription.value, '/w2/index.php?action=submit&amp;live')<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* ========== Upload preview ==========<br /> ========== -End- ==========<br /> ========== CODE IS UNREVIEWED ========== */</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.js&diff=460471 2010-05-26T00:16:06Z

<p>Suki Brits: </p> <hr /> <div>/* Blatantly based on Wookiepedia's ShowEras */ <br /> function showTitles(className) { <br /> if(typeof(SKIP_ERAS) != 'undefined' &amp;&amp; SKIP_ERAS) <br /> return; <br /> <br /> var titleDiv = document.getElementById(className); <br /> <br /> if(titleDiv == null || titleDiv == undefined) <br /> return; <br /> <br /> var cloneNode = titleDiv.cloneNode(true); <br /> var firstHeading = getFirstHeading(); <br /> firstHeading.insertBefore(cloneNode, firstHeading.childNodes[0]); <br /> cloneNode.style.display = &quot;block&quot;; <br /> }// END JavaScript title rewrite <br /> <br /> function getFirstHeading(){ <br /> var a = getElementsByClassName(document.getElementById('content'), 'h1', 'firstHeading'); <br /> return a[0]; <br /> }<br /> <br /> /* Code for hiding segments */<br /> function hide_block(id) {<br /> document.getElementById(id).display = &quot;block&quot;;<br /> document.getElementById(id + &quot;-link&quot;).display = &quot;none&quot;;<br /> }<br /> <br /> function replace_hides() {<br /> var hide_blocks = getElementsByClassName(document, &quot;div&quot;, &quot;hide&quot;);<br /> for (var i=0;i&lt;hide_blocks.length;i++) { <br /> var hide_link = document.createElement(&quot;div&quot;); <br /> hide_link.innerHTML = &quot;&lt;a href='javascript:hide_block(\&quot;&quot; + hide_blocks[i].attributes[0].nodeValue + &quot;\&quot;);' id='&quot; + hide_blocks[i].attributes[0].nodeValue + &quot;-link'&gt;&lt;i&gt;Show hidden content.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&quot;; <br /> hide_blocks[i].parentNode.insertBefore(hide_link, hide_blocks[i]);<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> function tfwiki_hooks() {<br /> showTitles('title-factionicons');<br /> replace_hides();<br /> }<br /> <br /> addOnloadHook(tfwiki_hooks);<br /> <br /> /* ========== Upload preview ==========<br /> ========== -BEGIN- ==========<br /> ========== CODE IS UNREVIEWED ========== */<br /> <br /> <br /> /**<br /> * Live preview script for MediaWiki<br /> *<br /> * 2007-04-25 – Nikerabbit:<br /> * Worked around text cutoff in mozilla-based browsers<br /> * Support for categories<br /> */<br /> <br /> <br /> lpIdPreview = 'wikiPreview';<br /> lpIdCategories = 'catlinks';<br /> lpIdDiff = 'wikiDiff';<br /> <br /> /*<br /> * Returns XMLHttpRequest based on browser support or null<br /> */<br /> function openXMLHttpRequest() {<br /> if( window.XMLHttpRequest ) {<br /> return new XMLHttpRequest();<br /> } else if( window.ActiveXObject &amp;&amp; navigator.platform != 'MacPPC' ) {<br /> // IE/Mac has an ActiveXObject but it doesn't work.<br /> return new ActiveXObject(&quot;Microsoft.XMLHTTP&quot;);<br /> } else {<br /> return null;<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> /**<br /> * Returns true if could open the request,<br /> * false otherwise (eg no browser support).<br /> */<br /> function lpDoPreview(text, postUrl) {<br /> lpRequest = openXMLHttpRequest();<br /> if( !lpRequest ) return false;<br /> <br /> lpRequest.onreadystatechange = lpStatusUpdate;<br /> lpRequest.open(&quot;POST&quot;, postUrl, true);<br /> <br /> var postData = 'wpTextbox1=' + encodeURIComponent(text);<br /> lpRequest.setRequestHeader(&quot;Content-Type&quot;, &quot;application/x-www-form-urlencoded&quot;);<br /> lpRequest.send(postData);<br /> return true;<br /> }<br /> <br /> function lpStatusUpdate() {<br /> <br /> /* We are at some stage of loading */<br /> if (lpRequest.readyState &gt; 0 &amp;&amp; lpRequest.readyState &lt; 4) {<br /> notify(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageLoading));<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* Not loaded yet */<br /> if(lpRequest.readyState != 4) {<br /> return;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* We got response, bug it not what we wanted */<br /> if( lpRequest.status != 200 ) {<br /> var keys = new Array();<br /> keys[0] = lpRequest.status;<br /> keys[1] = lpRequest.statusText;<br /> window.alert(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageError, keys));<br /> lpShowNormalPreview();<br /> return;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* All good */<br /> dismissNotify(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageReady), 750);<br /> <br /> <br /> var XMLObject = lpRequest.responseXML.documentElement;<br /> <br /> <br /> /* Work around Firefox (Gecko?) limitation where it shows only the first 4096<br /> * bytes of data. Ref: http://www.thescripts.com/forum/thread482760.html<br /> */<br /> XMLObject.normalize();<br /> <br /> var previewElement = XMLObject.getElementsByTagName('preview')[0];<br /> var categoryElement = XMLObject.getElementsByTagName('category')[0];<br /> <br /> /* Hide the active diff if it exists */<br /> var diff = document.getElementById(lpIdDiff);<br /> if ( diff ) { diff.style.display = 'none'; }<br /> <br /> /* Inject preview */<br /> var previewContainer = document.getElementById( lpIdPreview );<br /> if ( previewContainer &amp;&amp; previewElement ) {<br /> previewContainer.innerHTML = previewElement.firstChild.data;<br /> previewContainer.style.display = 'block';<br /> } else {<br /> /* Should never happen */<br /> window.alert(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageFailed));<br /> lpShowNormalPreview();<br /> return;<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> /* Inject categories */<br /> var categoryContainer = document.getElementById( lpIdCategories );<br /> if ( categoryElement &amp;&amp; categoryElement.firstChild ) {<br /> if ( categoryContainer ) {<br /> categoryContainer.innerHTML = categoryElement.firstChild.data;<br /> /* May be hidden */<br /> categoryContainer.style.display = 'block';<br /> } else {<br /> /* Just dump them somewhere */<br /> /* previewContainer.innerHTML += categoryElement.firstChild.data;*/<br /> }<br /> } else {<br /> /* Nothing to show, hide old data */<br /> if ( categoryContainer ) {<br /> categoryContainer.style.display = 'none';<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> }<br /> <br /> function lpShowNormalPreview() {<br /> var fallback = document.getElementById('wpPreview');<br /> if ( fallback ) { fallback.style.display = 'inline'; }<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> // TODO: move elsewhere<br /> /* Small non-intrusive popup which can be used for example to notify the user<br /> * about completed AJAX action. Supports only one notify at a time.<br /> */<br /> function notify(message) {<br /> var notifyElement = document.getElementById('mw-js-notify');<br /> if ( !notifyElement ) {<br /> createNotify();<br /> var notifyElement = document.getElementById('mw-js-notify');<br /> }<br /> notifyElement.style.display = 'block';<br /> notifyElement.innerHTML = message;<br /> }<br /> <br /> function dismissNotify(message, timeout) {<br /> var notifyElement = document.getElementById('mw-js-notify');<br /> if ( notifyElement ) {<br /> if ( timeout == 0 ) {<br /> notifyElement.style.display = 'none';<br /> } else {<br /> notify(message);<br /> setTimeout(&quot;dismissNotify('', 0)&quot;, timeout);<br /> }<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> function createNotify() {<br /> var div = document.createElement(&quot;div&quot;);<br /> var txt = '###PLACEHOLDER###'<br /> var txtNode = document.createTextNode(txt);<br /> div.appendChild(txtNode);<br /> div.id = 'mw-js-notify';<br /> // TODO: move styles to css<br /> div.setAttribute('style',<br /> 'display: none; position: fixed; bottom: 0px; right: 0px; color: white; background-color: DarkRed; z-index: 5; padding: 0.1em 1em 0.1em 1em; font-size: 120%;');<br /> var body = document.getElementsByTagName('body')[0];<br /> body.appendChild(div);<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> /* Helper function similar to wfMsgReplaceArgs() */<br /> function i18n(message, keys) {<br /> var localMessage = message;<br /> if ( !keys ) { return localMessage; }<br /> for( var i = 0; i &lt; keys.length; i++) {<br /> var myregexp = new RegExp(&quot;\\$&quot;+(i+1), 'g');<br /> localMessage = localMessage.replace(myregexp, keys[i]);<br /> }<br /> return localMessage;<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> if (wgCanonicalNamespace == 'Special' &amp;&amp; wgCanonicalSpecialPageName == 'Upload'){<br /> addOnloadHook(uploadPreviewInit)<br /> //prepare Mediawiki Live Preview<br /> wgLivepreviewMessageLoading = 'Wait...'<br /> wgLivepreviewMessageReady = 'Done'<br /> document.write('&lt;script type= &quot;text/javascript&quot; src=&quot;/skins-1.5/common/preview.js&quot;&gt;&lt;/script&gt;')<br /> }<br /> <br /> function uploadPreviewInit(){<br /> wpUploadDescription = document.getElementById('wpUploadDescription') //global var<br /> var but = document.createElement('input')<br /> but.type = 'button'<br /> but.value='Preview'<br /> but.onclick=uploadPreviewDo<br /> wpUploadDescription.parentNode.insertBefore(but, wpUploadDescription.nextSibling)<br /> }<br /> <br /> function uploadPreviewDo(){<br /> if (!window.wikiPreview) //create preview div<br /> wikiPreview = document.createElement('div')<br /> wikiPreview.id = 'wikiPreview'<br /> wpUploadDescription.parentNode.insertBefore(wikiPreview, wpUploadDescription.nextSibling.nextSibling)<br /> lpDoPreview(wpUploadDescription.value, '/w2/index.php?action=submit&amp;live')<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* ========== Upload preview ==========<br /> ========== -End- ==========<br /> ========== CODE IS UNREVIEWED ========== */</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.js&diff=460468 2010-05-26T00:12:46Z

<p>Suki Brits: Third time&#039;s a charm?</p> <hr /> <div>/* Blatantly based on Wookiepedia's ShowEras */ <br /> function showTitles(className) { <br /> if(typeof(SKIP_ERAS) != 'undefined' &amp;&amp; SKIP_ERAS) <br /> return; <br /> <br /> var titleDiv = document.getElementById(className); <br /> <br /> if(titleDiv == null || titleDiv == undefined) <br /> return; <br /> <br /> var cloneNode = titleDiv.cloneNode(true); <br /> var firstHeading = getFirstHeading(); <br /> firstHeading.insertBefore(cloneNode, firstHeading.childNodes[0]); <br /> cloneNode.style.display = &quot;block&quot;; <br /> }// END JavaScript title rewrite <br /> <br /> function getFirstHeading(){ <br /> var a = getElementsByClassName(document.getElementById('content'), 'h1', 'firstHeading'); <br /> return a[0]; <br /> }<br /> <br /> /* Code for hiding segments */<br /> function hide_block(id) {<br /> document.getElementById(id).display = &quot;block&quot;;<br /> document.getElementById(id + &quot;-link&quot;).display = &quot;none&quot;;<br /> }<br /> <br /> function replace_hides() {<br /> var hide_blocks = getElementsByClassName(document, &quot;div&quot;, &quot;hide&quot;);<br /> for (var i=0;i&lt;hide_blocks.length;i++) { <br /> var hide_link = document.createElement(&quot;div&quot;); <br /> hide_link.innerHTML = &quot;&lt;a href='javascript:hide_block(\'&quot; + hide_blocks[i].attributes[0].nodeValue + &quot;\');' id='&quot; + hide_blocks[i].attributes[0].nodeValue + &quot;-link'&gt;&lt;i&gt;Show hidden content.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&quot;; <br /> hide_blocks[i].parentNode.insertBefore(hide_link, hide_blocks[i]);<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> function tfwiki_hooks() {<br /> showTitles('title-factionicons');<br /> replace_hides();<br /> }<br /> <br /> addOnloadHook(tfwiki_hooks);<br /> <br /> /* ========== Upload preview ==========<br /> ========== -BEGIN- ==========<br /> ========== CODE IS UNREVIEWED ========== */<br /> <br /> <br /> /**<br /> * Live preview script for MediaWiki<br /> *<br /> * 2007-04-25 – Nikerabbit:<br /> * Worked around text cutoff in mozilla-based browsers<br /> * Support for categories<br /> */<br /> <br /> <br /> lpIdPreview = 'wikiPreview';<br /> lpIdCategories = 'catlinks';<br /> lpIdDiff = 'wikiDiff';<br /> <br /> /*<br /> * Returns XMLHttpRequest based on browser support or null<br /> */<br /> function openXMLHttpRequest() {<br /> if( window.XMLHttpRequest ) {<br /> return new XMLHttpRequest();<br /> } else if( window.ActiveXObject &amp;&amp; navigator.platform != 'MacPPC' ) {<br /> // IE/Mac has an ActiveXObject but it doesn't work.<br /> return new ActiveXObject(&quot;Microsoft.XMLHTTP&quot;);<br /> } else {<br /> return null;<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> /**<br /> * Returns true if could open the request,<br /> * false otherwise (eg no browser support).<br /> */<br /> function lpDoPreview(text, postUrl) {<br /> lpRequest = openXMLHttpRequest();<br /> if( !lpRequest ) return false;<br /> <br /> lpRequest.onreadystatechange = lpStatusUpdate;<br /> lpRequest.open(&quot;POST&quot;, postUrl, true);<br /> <br /> var postData = 'wpTextbox1=' + encodeURIComponent(text);<br /> lpRequest.setRequestHeader(&quot;Content-Type&quot;, &quot;application/x-www-form-urlencoded&quot;);<br /> lpRequest.send(postData);<br /> return true;<br /> }<br /> <br /> function lpStatusUpdate() {<br /> <br /> /* We are at some stage of loading */<br /> if (lpRequest.readyState &gt; 0 &amp;&amp; lpRequest.readyState &lt; 4) {<br /> notify(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageLoading));<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* Not loaded yet */<br /> if(lpRequest.readyState != 4) {<br /> return;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* We got response, bug it not what we wanted */<br /> if( lpRequest.status != 200 ) {<br /> var keys = new Array();<br /> keys[0] = lpRequest.status;<br /> keys[1] = lpRequest.statusText;<br /> window.alert(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageError, keys));<br /> lpShowNormalPreview();<br /> return;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* All good */<br /> dismissNotify(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageReady), 750);<br /> <br /> <br /> var XMLObject = lpRequest.responseXML.documentElement;<br /> <br /> <br /> /* Work around Firefox (Gecko?) limitation where it shows only the first 4096<br /> * bytes of data. Ref: http://www.thescripts.com/forum/thread482760.html<br /> */<br /> XMLObject.normalize();<br /> <br /> var previewElement = XMLObject.getElementsByTagName('preview')[0];<br /> var categoryElement = XMLObject.getElementsByTagName('category')[0];<br /> <br /> /* Hide the active diff if it exists */<br /> var diff = document.getElementById(lpIdDiff);<br /> if ( diff ) { diff.style.display = 'none'; }<br /> <br /> /* Inject preview */<br /> var previewContainer = document.getElementById( lpIdPreview );<br /> if ( previewContainer &amp;&amp; previewElement ) {<br /> previewContainer.innerHTML = previewElement.firstChild.data;<br /> previewContainer.style.display = 'block';<br /> } else {<br /> /* Should never happen */<br /> window.alert(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageFailed));<br /> lpShowNormalPreview();<br /> return;<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> /* Inject categories */<br /> var categoryContainer = document.getElementById( lpIdCategories );<br /> if ( categoryElement &amp;&amp; categoryElement.firstChild ) {<br /> if ( categoryContainer ) {<br /> categoryContainer.innerHTML = categoryElement.firstChild.data;<br /> /* May be hidden */<br /> categoryContainer.style.display = 'block';<br /> } else {<br /> /* Just dump them somewhere */<br /> /* previewContainer.innerHTML += categoryElement.firstChild.data;*/<br /> }<br /> } else {<br /> /* Nothing to show, hide old data */<br /> if ( categoryContainer ) {<br /> categoryContainer.style.display = 'none';<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> }<br /> <br /> function lpShowNormalPreview() {<br /> var fallback = document.getElementById('wpPreview');<br /> if ( fallback ) { fallback.style.display = 'inline'; }<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> // TODO: move elsewhere<br /> /* Small non-intrusive popup which can be used for example to notify the user<br /> * about completed AJAX action. Supports only one notify at a time.<br /> */<br /> function notify(message) {<br /> var notifyElement = document.getElementById('mw-js-notify');<br /> if ( !notifyElement ) {<br /> createNotify();<br /> var notifyElement = document.getElementById('mw-js-notify');<br /> }<br /> notifyElement.style.display = 'block';<br /> notifyElement.innerHTML = message;<br /> }<br /> <br /> function dismissNotify(message, timeout) {<br /> var notifyElement = document.getElementById('mw-js-notify');<br /> if ( notifyElement ) {<br /> if ( timeout == 0 ) {<br /> notifyElement.style.display = 'none';<br /> } else {<br /> notify(message);<br /> setTimeout(&quot;dismissNotify('', 0)&quot;, timeout);<br /> }<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> function createNotify() {<br /> var div = document.createElement(&quot;div&quot;);<br /> var txt = '###PLACEHOLDER###'<br /> var txtNode = document.createTextNode(txt);<br /> div.appendChild(txtNode);<br /> div.id = 'mw-js-notify';<br /> // TODO: move styles to css<br /> div.setAttribute('style',<br /> 'display: none; position: fixed; bottom: 0px; right: 0px; color: white; background-color: DarkRed; z-index: 5; padding: 0.1em 1em 0.1em 1em; font-size: 120%;');<br /> var body = document.getElementsByTagName('body')[0];<br /> body.appendChild(div);<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> /* Helper function similar to wfMsgReplaceArgs() */<br /> function i18n(message, keys) {<br /> var localMessage = message;<br /> if ( !keys ) { return localMessage; }<br /> for( var i = 0; i &lt; keys.length; i++) {<br /> var myregexp = new RegExp(&quot;\\$&quot;+(i+1), 'g');<br /> localMessage = localMessage.replace(myregexp, keys[i]);<br /> }<br /> return localMessage;<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> if (wgCanonicalNamespace == 'Special' &amp;&amp; wgCanonicalSpecialPageName == 'Upload'){<br /> addOnloadHook(uploadPreviewInit)<br /> //prepare Mediawiki Live Preview<br /> wgLivepreviewMessageLoading = 'Wait...'<br /> wgLivepreviewMessageReady = 'Done'<br /> document.write('&lt;script type= &quot;text/javascript&quot; src=&quot;/skins-1.5/common/preview.js&quot;&gt;&lt;/script&gt;')<br /> }<br /> <br /> function uploadPreviewInit(){<br /> wpUploadDescription = document.getElementById('wpUploadDescription') //global var<br /> var but = document.createElement('input')<br /> but.type = 'button'<br /> but.value='Preview'<br /> but.onclick=uploadPreviewDo<br /> wpUploadDescription.parentNode.insertBefore(but, wpUploadDescription.nextSibling)<br /> }<br /> <br /> function uploadPreviewDo(){<br /> if (!window.wikiPreview) //create preview div<br /> wikiPreview = document.createElement('div')<br /> wikiPreview.id = 'wikiPreview'<br /> wpUploadDescription.parentNode.insertBefore(wikiPreview, wpUploadDescription.nextSibling.nextSibling)<br /> lpDoPreview(wpUploadDescription.value, '/w2/index.php?action=submit&amp;live')<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* ========== Upload preview ==========<br /> ========== -End- ==========<br /> ========== CODE IS UNREVIEWED ========== */</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.js&diff=460465 2010-05-26T00:09:05Z

<p>Suki Brits: Fixing stupid mistake.</p> <hr /> <div>/* Blatantly based on Wookiepedia's ShowEras */ <br /> function showTitles(className) { <br /> if(typeof(SKIP_ERAS) != 'undefined' &amp;&amp; SKIP_ERAS) <br /> return; <br /> <br /> var titleDiv = document.getElementById(className); <br /> <br /> if(titleDiv == null || titleDiv == undefined) <br /> return; <br /> <br /> var cloneNode = titleDiv.cloneNode(true); <br /> var firstHeading = getFirstHeading(); <br /> firstHeading.insertBefore(cloneNode, firstHeading.childNodes[0]); <br /> cloneNode.style.display = &quot;block&quot;; <br /> }// END JavaScript title rewrite <br /> <br /> function getFirstHeading(){ <br /> var a = getElementsByClassName(document.getElementById('content'), 'h1', 'firstHeading'); <br /> return a[0]; <br /> }<br /> <br /> /* Code for hiding segments */<br /> function hide_block(id) {<br /> document.getElementById(id).display = &quot;block&quot;;<br /> document.getElementById(id + &quot;-link&quot;).display = &quot;none&quot;;<br /> }<br /> <br /> function replace_hides() {<br /> var hide_blocks = getElementsByClassName(document, &quot;div&quot;, &quot;hide&quot;);<br /> for (var i=0;i&lt;hide_blocks.length;i++) { <br /> var hide_link = document.createElement(&quot;div&quot;); <br /> hide_link.innerHTML = &quot;&lt;a style='float: right;' href='javascript:hide_block('&quot; + hide_blocks[i].attributes[0].nodeValue + &quot;' id='&quot; + hide_blocks[i].attributes[0].nodeValue + &quot;-link'&gt;&lt;i&gt;Show hidden content.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&quot;; <br /> hide_blocks[i].parentNode.insertBefore(hide_link, hide_blocks[i]);<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> function tfwiki_hooks() {<br /> showTitles('title-factionicons');<br /> replace_hides();<br /> }<br /> <br /> addOnloadHook(tfwiki_hooks);<br /> <br /> /* ========== Upload preview ==========<br /> ========== -BEGIN- ==========<br /> ========== CODE IS UNREVIEWED ========== */<br /> <br /> <br /> /**<br /> * Live preview script for MediaWiki<br /> *<br /> * 2007-04-25 – Nikerabbit:<br /> * Worked around text cutoff in mozilla-based browsers<br /> * Support for categories<br /> */<br /> <br /> <br /> lpIdPreview = 'wikiPreview';<br /> lpIdCategories = 'catlinks';<br /> lpIdDiff = 'wikiDiff';<br /> <br /> /*<br /> * Returns XMLHttpRequest based on browser support or null<br /> */<br /> function openXMLHttpRequest() {<br /> if( window.XMLHttpRequest ) {<br /> return new XMLHttpRequest();<br /> } else if( window.ActiveXObject &amp;&amp; navigator.platform != 'MacPPC' ) {<br /> // IE/Mac has an ActiveXObject but it doesn't work.<br /> return new ActiveXObject(&quot;Microsoft.XMLHTTP&quot;);<br /> } else {<br /> return null;<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> /**<br /> * Returns true if could open the request,<br /> * false otherwise (eg no browser support).<br /> */<br /> function lpDoPreview(text, postUrl) {<br /> lpRequest = openXMLHttpRequest();<br /> if( !lpRequest ) return false;<br /> <br /> lpRequest.onreadystatechange = lpStatusUpdate;<br /> lpRequest.open(&quot;POST&quot;, postUrl, true);<br /> <br /> var postData = 'wpTextbox1=' + encodeURIComponent(text);<br /> lpRequest.setRequestHeader(&quot;Content-Type&quot;, &quot;application/x-www-form-urlencoded&quot;);<br /> lpRequest.send(postData);<br /> return true;<br /> }<br /> <br /> function lpStatusUpdate() {<br /> <br /> /* We are at some stage of loading */<br /> if (lpRequest.readyState &gt; 0 &amp;&amp; lpRequest.readyState &lt; 4) {<br /> notify(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageLoading));<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* Not loaded yet */<br /> if(lpRequest.readyState != 4) {<br /> return;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* We got response, bug it not what we wanted */<br /> if( lpRequest.status != 200 ) {<br /> var keys = new Array();<br /> keys[0] = lpRequest.status;<br /> keys[1] = lpRequest.statusText;<br /> window.alert(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageError, keys));<br /> lpShowNormalPreview();<br /> return;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* All good */<br /> dismissNotify(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageReady), 750);<br /> <br /> <br /> var XMLObject = lpRequest.responseXML.documentElement;<br /> <br /> <br /> /* Work around Firefox (Gecko?) limitation where it shows only the first 4096<br /> * bytes of data. Ref: http://www.thescripts.com/forum/thread482760.html<br /> */<br /> XMLObject.normalize();<br /> <br /> var previewElement = XMLObject.getElementsByTagName('preview')[0];<br /> var categoryElement = XMLObject.getElementsByTagName('category')[0];<br /> <br /> /* Hide the active diff if it exists */<br /> var diff = document.getElementById(lpIdDiff);<br /> if ( diff ) { diff.style.display = 'none'; }<br /> <br /> /* Inject preview */<br /> var previewContainer = document.getElementById( lpIdPreview );<br /> if ( previewContainer &amp;&amp; previewElement ) {<br /> previewContainer.innerHTML = previewElement.firstChild.data;<br /> previewContainer.style.display = 'block';<br /> } else {<br /> /* Should never happen */<br /> window.alert(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageFailed));<br /> lpShowNormalPreview();<br /> return;<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> /* Inject categories */<br /> var categoryContainer = document.getElementById( lpIdCategories );<br /> if ( categoryElement &amp;&amp; categoryElement.firstChild ) {<br /> if ( categoryContainer ) {<br /> categoryContainer.innerHTML = categoryElement.firstChild.data;<br /> /* May be hidden */<br /> categoryContainer.style.display = 'block';<br /> } else {<br /> /* Just dump them somewhere */<br /> /* previewContainer.innerHTML += categoryElement.firstChild.data;*/<br /> }<br /> } else {<br /> /* Nothing to show, hide old data */<br /> if ( categoryContainer ) {<br /> categoryContainer.style.display = 'none';<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> }<br /> <br /> function lpShowNormalPreview() {<br /> var fallback = document.getElementById('wpPreview');<br /> if ( fallback ) { fallback.style.display = 'inline'; }<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> // TODO: move elsewhere<br /> /* Small non-intrusive popup which can be used for example to notify the user<br /> * about completed AJAX action. Supports only one notify at a time.<br /> */<br /> function notify(message) {<br /> var notifyElement = document.getElementById('mw-js-notify');<br /> if ( !notifyElement ) {<br /> createNotify();<br /> var notifyElement = document.getElementById('mw-js-notify');<br /> }<br /> notifyElement.style.display = 'block';<br /> notifyElement.innerHTML = message;<br /> }<br /> <br /> function dismissNotify(message, timeout) {<br /> var notifyElement = document.getElementById('mw-js-notify');<br /> if ( notifyElement ) {<br /> if ( timeout == 0 ) {<br /> notifyElement.style.display = 'none';<br /> } else {<br /> notify(message);<br /> setTimeout(&quot;dismissNotify('', 0)&quot;, timeout);<br /> }<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> function createNotify() {<br /> var div = document.createElement(&quot;div&quot;);<br /> var txt = '###PLACEHOLDER###'<br /> var txtNode = document.createTextNode(txt);<br /> div.appendChild(txtNode);<br /> div.id = 'mw-js-notify';<br /> // TODO: move styles to css<br /> div.setAttribute('style',<br /> 'display: none; position: fixed; bottom: 0px; right: 0px; color: white; background-color: DarkRed; z-index: 5; padding: 0.1em 1em 0.1em 1em; font-size: 120%;');<br /> var body = document.getElementsByTagName('body')[0];<br /> body.appendChild(div);<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> /* Helper function similar to wfMsgReplaceArgs() */<br /> function i18n(message, keys) {<br /> var localMessage = message;<br /> if ( !keys ) { return localMessage; }<br /> for( var i = 0; i &lt; keys.length; i++) {<br /> var myregexp = new RegExp(&quot;\\$&quot;+(i+1), 'g');<br /> localMessage = localMessage.replace(myregexp, keys[i]);<br /> }<br /> return localMessage;<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> if (wgCanonicalNamespace == 'Special' &amp;&amp; wgCanonicalSpecialPageName == 'Upload'){<br /> addOnloadHook(uploadPreviewInit)<br /> //prepare Mediawiki Live Preview<br /> wgLivepreviewMessageLoading = 'Wait...'<br /> wgLivepreviewMessageReady = 'Done'<br /> document.write('&lt;script type= &quot;text/javascript&quot; src=&quot;/skins-1.5/common/preview.js&quot;&gt;&lt;/script&gt;')<br /> }<br /> <br /> function uploadPreviewInit(){<br /> wpUploadDescription = document.getElementById('wpUploadDescription') //global var<br /> var but = document.createElement('input')<br /> but.type = 'button'<br /> but.value='Preview'<br /> but.onclick=uploadPreviewDo<br /> wpUploadDescription.parentNode.insertBefore(but, wpUploadDescription.nextSibling)<br /> }<br /> <br /> function uploadPreviewDo(){<br /> if (!window.wikiPreview) //create preview div<br /> wikiPreview = document.createElement('div')<br /> wikiPreview.id = 'wikiPreview'<br /> wpUploadDescription.parentNode.insertBefore(wikiPreview, wpUploadDescription.nextSibling.nextSibling)<br /> lpDoPreview(wpUploadDescription.value, '/w2/index.php?action=submit&amp;live')<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* ========== Upload preview ==========<br /> ========== -End- ==========<br /> ========== CODE IS UNREVIEWED ========== */</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.js&diff=460461 2010-05-26T00:00:41Z

<p>Suki Brits: Actually adding call.</p> <hr /> <div>/* Blatantly based on Wookiepedia's ShowEras */ <br /> function showTitles(className) { <br /> if(typeof(SKIP_ERAS) != 'undefined' &amp;&amp; SKIP_ERAS) <br /> return; <br /> <br /> var titleDiv = document.getElementById(className); <br /> <br /> if(titleDiv == null || titleDiv == undefined) <br /> return; <br /> <br /> var cloneNode = titleDiv.cloneNode(true); <br /> var firstHeading = getFirstHeading(); <br /> firstHeading.insertBefore(cloneNode, firstHeading.childNodes[0]); <br /> cloneNode.style.display = &quot;block&quot;; <br /> }// END JavaScript title rewrite <br /> <br /> function getFirstHeading(){ <br /> var a = getElementsByClassName(document.getElementById('content'), 'h1', 'firstHeading'); <br /> return a[0]; <br /> }<br /> <br /> /* Code for hiding segments */<br /> function hide_block(id) {<br /> document.getElementById(id).display = &quot;block&quot;;<br /> document.getElementById(id + &quot;-link&quot;).display = &quot;none&quot;;<br /> }<br /> <br /> function replace_hides() {<br /> var hide_blocks = getElementsByClassName(document, &quot;div&quot;, &quot;hide&quot;);<br /> for (var i=0;i&lt;hide_blocks.length;i++) { <br /> var hide_link = document.createElement(&quot;div&quot;); <br /> hide_link.innerHTML = &quot;&lt;a style='float: right;' href='javascript:hide_block('&quot; + hide_link[i].attributes[0].nodeValue + &quot;' id='&quot; + hide_link[i].attributes[0].nodeValue + &quot;-link'&gt;&lt;i&gt;Show hidden content.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&quot;; <br /> hide_blocks[i].parentNode.insertBefore(hide_link, hide_blocks[i]);<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> function tfwiki_hooks() {<br /> showTitles('title-factionicons');<br /> replace_hides();<br /> }<br /> <br /> addOnloadHook(tfwiki_hooks);<br /> <br /> /* ========== Upload preview ==========<br /> ========== -BEGIN- ==========<br /> ========== CODE IS UNREVIEWED ========== */<br /> <br /> <br /> /**<br /> * Live preview script for MediaWiki<br /> *<br /> * 2007-04-25 – Nikerabbit:<br /> * Worked around text cutoff in mozilla-based browsers<br /> * Support for categories<br /> */<br /> <br /> <br /> lpIdPreview = 'wikiPreview';<br /> lpIdCategories = 'catlinks';<br /> lpIdDiff = 'wikiDiff';<br /> <br /> /*<br /> * Returns XMLHttpRequest based on browser support or null<br /> */<br /> function openXMLHttpRequest() {<br /> if( window.XMLHttpRequest ) {<br /> return new XMLHttpRequest();<br /> } else if( window.ActiveXObject &amp;&amp; navigator.platform != 'MacPPC' ) {<br /> // IE/Mac has an ActiveXObject but it doesn't work.<br /> return new ActiveXObject(&quot;Microsoft.XMLHTTP&quot;);<br /> } else {<br /> return null;<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> /**<br /> * Returns true if could open the request,<br /> * false otherwise (eg no browser support).<br /> */<br /> function lpDoPreview(text, postUrl) {<br /> lpRequest = openXMLHttpRequest();<br /> if( !lpRequest ) return false;<br /> <br /> lpRequest.onreadystatechange = lpStatusUpdate;<br /> lpRequest.open(&quot;POST&quot;, postUrl, true);<br /> <br /> var postData = 'wpTextbox1=' + encodeURIComponent(text);<br /> lpRequest.setRequestHeader(&quot;Content-Type&quot;, &quot;application/x-www-form-urlencoded&quot;);<br /> lpRequest.send(postData);<br /> return true;<br /> }<br /> <br /> function lpStatusUpdate() {<br /> <br /> /* We are at some stage of loading */<br /> if (lpRequest.readyState &gt; 0 &amp;&amp; lpRequest.readyState &lt; 4) {<br /> notify(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageLoading));<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* Not loaded yet */<br /> if(lpRequest.readyState != 4) {<br /> return;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* We got response, bug it not what we wanted */<br /> if( lpRequest.status != 200 ) {<br /> var keys = new Array();<br /> keys[0] = lpRequest.status;<br /> keys[1] = lpRequest.statusText;<br /> window.alert(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageError, keys));<br /> lpShowNormalPreview();<br /> return;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* All good */<br /> dismissNotify(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageReady), 750);<br /> <br /> <br /> var XMLObject = lpRequest.responseXML.documentElement;<br /> <br /> <br /> /* Work around Firefox (Gecko?) limitation where it shows only the first 4096<br /> * bytes of data. Ref: http://www.thescripts.com/forum/thread482760.html<br /> */<br /> XMLObject.normalize();<br /> <br /> var previewElement = XMLObject.getElementsByTagName('preview')[0];<br /> var categoryElement = XMLObject.getElementsByTagName('category')[0];<br /> <br /> /* Hide the active diff if it exists */<br /> var diff = document.getElementById(lpIdDiff);<br /> if ( diff ) { diff.style.display = 'none'; }<br /> <br /> /* Inject preview */<br /> var previewContainer = document.getElementById( lpIdPreview );<br /> if ( previewContainer &amp;&amp; previewElement ) {<br /> previewContainer.innerHTML = previewElement.firstChild.data;<br /> previewContainer.style.display = 'block';<br /> } else {<br /> /* Should never happen */<br /> window.alert(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageFailed));<br /> lpShowNormalPreview();<br /> return;<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> /* Inject categories */<br /> var categoryContainer = document.getElementById( lpIdCategories );<br /> if ( categoryElement &amp;&amp; categoryElement.firstChild ) {<br /> if ( categoryContainer ) {<br /> categoryContainer.innerHTML = categoryElement.firstChild.data;<br /> /* May be hidden */<br /> categoryContainer.style.display = 'block';<br /> } else {<br /> /* Just dump them somewhere */<br /> /* previewContainer.innerHTML += categoryElement.firstChild.data;*/<br /> }<br /> } else {<br /> /* Nothing to show, hide old data */<br /> if ( categoryContainer ) {<br /> categoryContainer.style.display = 'none';<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> }<br /> <br /> function lpShowNormalPreview() {<br /> var fallback = document.getElementById('wpPreview');<br /> if ( fallback ) { fallback.style.display = 'inline'; }<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> // TODO: move elsewhere<br /> /* Small non-intrusive popup which can be used for example to notify the user<br /> * about completed AJAX action. Supports only one notify at a time.<br /> */<br /> function notify(message) {<br /> var notifyElement = document.getElementById('mw-js-notify');<br /> if ( !notifyElement ) {<br /> createNotify();<br /> var notifyElement = document.getElementById('mw-js-notify');<br /> }<br /> notifyElement.style.display = 'block';<br /> notifyElement.innerHTML = message;<br /> }<br /> <br /> function dismissNotify(message, timeout) {<br /> var notifyElement = document.getElementById('mw-js-notify');<br /> if ( notifyElement ) {<br /> if ( timeout == 0 ) {<br /> notifyElement.style.display = 'none';<br /> } else {<br /> notify(message);<br /> setTimeout(&quot;dismissNotify('', 0)&quot;, timeout);<br /> }<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> function createNotify() {<br /> var div = document.createElement(&quot;div&quot;);<br /> var txt = '###PLACEHOLDER###'<br /> var txtNode = document.createTextNode(txt);<br /> div.appendChild(txtNode);<br /> div.id = 'mw-js-notify';<br /> // TODO: move styles to css<br /> div.setAttribute('style',<br /> 'display: none; position: fixed; bottom: 0px; right: 0px; color: white; background-color: DarkRed; z-index: 5; padding: 0.1em 1em 0.1em 1em; font-size: 120%;');<br /> var body = document.getElementsByTagName('body')[0];<br /> body.appendChild(div);<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> /* Helper function similar to wfMsgReplaceArgs() */<br /> function i18n(message, keys) {<br /> var localMessage = message;<br /> if ( !keys ) { return localMessage; }<br /> for( var i = 0; i &lt; keys.length; i++) {<br /> var myregexp = new RegExp(&quot;\\$&quot;+(i+1), 'g');<br /> localMessage = localMessage.replace(myregexp, keys[i]);<br /> }<br /> return localMessage;<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> if (wgCanonicalNamespace == 'Special' &amp;&amp; wgCanonicalSpecialPageName == 'Upload'){<br /> addOnloadHook(uploadPreviewInit)<br /> //prepare Mediawiki Live Preview<br /> wgLivepreviewMessageLoading = 'Wait...'<br /> wgLivepreviewMessageReady = 'Done'<br /> document.write('&lt;script type= &quot;text/javascript&quot; src=&quot;/skins-1.5/common/preview.js&quot;&gt;&lt;/script&gt;')<br /> }<br /> <br /> function uploadPreviewInit(){<br /> wpUploadDescription = document.getElementById('wpUploadDescription') //global var<br /> var but = document.createElement('input')<br /> but.type = 'button'<br /> but.value='Preview'<br /> but.onclick=uploadPreviewDo<br /> wpUploadDescription.parentNode.insertBefore(but, wpUploadDescription.nextSibling)<br /> }<br /> <br /> function uploadPreviewDo(){<br /> if (!window.wikiPreview) //create preview div<br /> wikiPreview = document.createElement('div')<br /> wikiPreview.id = 'wikiPreview'<br /> wpUploadDescription.parentNode.insertBefore(wikiPreview, wpUploadDescription.nextSibling.nextSibling)<br /> lpDoPreview(wpUploadDescription.value, '/w2/index.php?action=submit&amp;live')<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* ========== Upload preview ==========<br /> ========== -End- ==========<br /> ========== CODE IS UNREVIEWED ========== */</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.js&diff=460460 2010-05-25T23:59:29Z

<p>Suki Brits: </p> <hr /> <div>/* Blatantly based on Wookiepedia's ShowEras */ <br /> function showTitles(className) { <br /> if(typeof(SKIP_ERAS) != 'undefined' &amp;&amp; SKIP_ERAS) <br /> return; <br /> <br /> var titleDiv = document.getElementById(className); <br /> <br /> if(titleDiv == null || titleDiv == undefined) <br /> return; <br /> <br /> var cloneNode = titleDiv.cloneNode(true); <br /> var firstHeading = getFirstHeading(); <br /> firstHeading.insertBefore(cloneNode, firstHeading.childNodes[0]); <br /> cloneNode.style.display = &quot;block&quot;; <br /> }// END JavaScript title rewrite <br /> <br /> function getFirstHeading(){ <br /> var a = getElementsByClassName(document.getElementById('content'), 'h1', 'firstHeading'); <br /> return a[0]; <br /> }<br /> <br /> function tfwiki_hooks() {<br /> showTitles('title-factionicons');<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* Code for hiding segments */<br /> function hide_block(id) {<br /> document.getElementById(id).display = &quot;block&quot;;<br /> document.getElementById(id + &quot;-link&quot;).display = &quot;none&quot;;<br /> }<br /> <br /> function replace_hides() {<br /> var hide_blocks = getElementsByClassName(document, &quot;div&quot;, &quot;hide&quot;);<br /> for (var i=0;i&lt;hide_blocks.length;i++) { <br /> var hide_link = document.createElement(&quot;div&quot;); <br /> hide_link.innerHTML = &quot;&lt;a style='float: right;' href='javascript:hide_block('&quot; + hide_link[i].attributes[0].nodeValue + &quot;' id='&quot; + hide_link[i].attributes[0].nodeValue + &quot;-link'&gt;&lt;i&gt;Show hidden content.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&quot;; <br /> hide_blocks[i].parentNode.insertBefore(hide_link, hide_blocks[i]);<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> addOnloadHook(tfwiki_hooks);<br /> <br /> /* ========== Upload preview ==========<br /> ========== -BEGIN- ==========<br /> ========== CODE IS UNREVIEWED ========== */<br /> <br /> <br /> /**<br /> * Live preview script for MediaWiki<br /> *<br /> * 2007-04-25 – Nikerabbit:<br /> * Worked around text cutoff in mozilla-based browsers<br /> * Support for categories<br /> */<br /> <br /> <br /> lpIdPreview = 'wikiPreview';<br /> lpIdCategories = 'catlinks';<br /> lpIdDiff = 'wikiDiff';<br /> <br /> /*<br /> * Returns XMLHttpRequest based on browser support or null<br /> */<br /> function openXMLHttpRequest() {<br /> if( window.XMLHttpRequest ) {<br /> return new XMLHttpRequest();<br /> } else if( window.ActiveXObject &amp;&amp; navigator.platform != 'MacPPC' ) {<br /> // IE/Mac has an ActiveXObject but it doesn't work.<br /> return new ActiveXObject(&quot;Microsoft.XMLHTTP&quot;);<br /> } else {<br /> return null;<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> /**<br /> * Returns true if could open the request,<br /> * false otherwise (eg no browser support).<br /> */<br /> function lpDoPreview(text, postUrl) {<br /> lpRequest = openXMLHttpRequest();<br /> if( !lpRequest ) return false;<br /> <br /> lpRequest.onreadystatechange = lpStatusUpdate;<br /> lpRequest.open(&quot;POST&quot;, postUrl, true);<br /> <br /> var postData = 'wpTextbox1=' + encodeURIComponent(text);<br /> lpRequest.setRequestHeader(&quot;Content-Type&quot;, &quot;application/x-www-form-urlencoded&quot;);<br /> lpRequest.send(postData);<br /> return true;<br /> }<br /> <br /> function lpStatusUpdate() {<br /> <br /> /* We are at some stage of loading */<br /> if (lpRequest.readyState &gt; 0 &amp;&amp; lpRequest.readyState &lt; 4) {<br /> notify(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageLoading));<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* Not loaded yet */<br /> if(lpRequest.readyState != 4) {<br /> return;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* We got response, bug it not what we wanted */<br /> if( lpRequest.status != 200 ) {<br /> var keys = new Array();<br /> keys[0] = lpRequest.status;<br /> keys[1] = lpRequest.statusText;<br /> window.alert(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageError, keys));<br /> lpShowNormalPreview();<br /> return;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* All good */<br /> dismissNotify(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageReady), 750);<br /> <br /> <br /> var XMLObject = lpRequest.responseXML.documentElement;<br /> <br /> <br /> /* Work around Firefox (Gecko?) limitation where it shows only the first 4096<br /> * bytes of data. Ref: http://www.thescripts.com/forum/thread482760.html<br /> */<br /> XMLObject.normalize();<br /> <br /> var previewElement = XMLObject.getElementsByTagName('preview')[0];<br /> var categoryElement = XMLObject.getElementsByTagName('category')[0];<br /> <br /> /* Hide the active diff if it exists */<br /> var diff = document.getElementById(lpIdDiff);<br /> if ( diff ) { diff.style.display = 'none'; }<br /> <br /> /* Inject preview */<br /> var previewContainer = document.getElementById( lpIdPreview );<br /> if ( previewContainer &amp;&amp; previewElement ) {<br /> previewContainer.innerHTML = previewElement.firstChild.data;<br /> previewContainer.style.display = 'block';<br /> } else {<br /> /* Should never happen */<br /> window.alert(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageFailed));<br /> lpShowNormalPreview();<br /> return;<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> /* Inject categories */<br /> var categoryContainer = document.getElementById( lpIdCategories );<br /> if ( categoryElement &amp;&amp; categoryElement.firstChild ) {<br /> if ( categoryContainer ) {<br /> categoryContainer.innerHTML = categoryElement.firstChild.data;<br /> /* May be hidden */<br /> categoryContainer.style.display = 'block';<br /> } else {<br /> /* Just dump them somewhere */<br /> /* previewContainer.innerHTML += categoryElement.firstChild.data;*/<br /> }<br /> } else {<br /> /* Nothing to show, hide old data */<br /> if ( categoryContainer ) {<br /> categoryContainer.style.display = 'none';<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> }<br /> <br /> function lpShowNormalPreview() {<br /> var fallback = document.getElementById('wpPreview');<br /> if ( fallback ) { fallback.style.display = 'inline'; }<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> // TODO: move elsewhere<br /> /* Small non-intrusive popup which can be used for example to notify the user<br /> * about completed AJAX action. Supports only one notify at a time.<br /> */<br /> function notify(message) {<br /> var notifyElement = document.getElementById('mw-js-notify');<br /> if ( !notifyElement ) {<br /> createNotify();<br /> var notifyElement = document.getElementById('mw-js-notify');<br /> }<br /> notifyElement.style.display = 'block';<br /> notifyElement.innerHTML = message;<br /> }<br /> <br /> function dismissNotify(message, timeout) {<br /> var notifyElement = document.getElementById('mw-js-notify');<br /> if ( notifyElement ) {<br /> if ( timeout == 0 ) {<br /> notifyElement.style.display = 'none';<br /> } else {<br /> notify(message);<br /> setTimeout(&quot;dismissNotify('', 0)&quot;, timeout);<br /> }<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> function createNotify() {<br /> var div = document.createElement(&quot;div&quot;);<br /> var txt = '###PLACEHOLDER###'<br /> var txtNode = document.createTextNode(txt);<br /> div.appendChild(txtNode);<br /> div.id = 'mw-js-notify';<br /> // TODO: move styles to css<br /> div.setAttribute('style',<br /> 'display: none; position: fixed; bottom: 0px; right: 0px; color: white; background-color: DarkRed; z-index: 5; padding: 0.1em 1em 0.1em 1em; font-size: 120%;');<br /> var body = document.getElementsByTagName('body')[0];<br /> body.appendChild(div);<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> /* Helper function similar to wfMsgReplaceArgs() */<br /> function i18n(message, keys) {<br /> var localMessage = message;<br /> if ( !keys ) { return localMessage; }<br /> for( var i = 0; i &lt; keys.length; i++) {<br /> var myregexp = new RegExp(&quot;\\$&quot;+(i+1), 'g');<br /> localMessage = localMessage.replace(myregexp, keys[i]);<br /> }<br /> return localMessage;<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> if (wgCanonicalNamespace == 'Special' &amp;&amp; wgCanonicalSpecialPageName == 'Upload'){<br /> addOnloadHook(uploadPreviewInit)<br /> //prepare Mediawiki Live Preview<br /> wgLivepreviewMessageLoading = 'Wait...'<br /> wgLivepreviewMessageReady = 'Done'<br /> document.write('&lt;script type= &quot;text/javascript&quot; src=&quot;/skins-1.5/common/preview.js&quot;&gt;&lt;/script&gt;')<br /> }<br /> <br /> function uploadPreviewInit(){<br /> wpUploadDescription = document.getElementById('wpUploadDescription') //global var<br /> var but = document.createElement('input')<br /> but.type = 'button'<br /> but.value='Preview'<br /> but.onclick=uploadPreviewDo<br /> wpUploadDescription.parentNode.insertBefore(but, wpUploadDescription.nextSibling)<br /> }<br /> <br /> function uploadPreviewDo(){<br /> if (!window.wikiPreview) //create preview div<br /> wikiPreview = document.createElement('div')<br /> wikiPreview.id = 'wikiPreview'<br /> wpUploadDescription.parentNode.insertBefore(wikiPreview, wpUploadDescription.nextSibling.nextSibling)<br /> lpDoPreview(wpUploadDescription.value, '/w2/index.php?action=submit&amp;live')<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* ========== Upload preview ==========<br /> ========== -End- ==========<br /> ========== CODE IS UNREVIEWED ========== */</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:TFWiki.net_2010_Transformers_Hall_of_Fame_Auditions/Entries&diff=450507 2010-04-23T04:15:24Z

<p>Suki Brits: /* Poll entries */</p> <hr /> <div>This is the page for the '''TFWiki.net Transformers Hall of Fame Auditions''' entries. The rules are as follows:<br /> <br /> #You must pick your top five ''Transformers'' characters, from any era. They must actually '''be''' Transformers; sorry, but no humans, non-Transformer aliens, non-Transformer robots, or anything else of the sort are being considered for the Hall of Fame. Any votes for such entities will '''not''' be tabulated. It is the sole discretion of the contest organizers to decide what does and does not count.<br /> #Take your top five list and '''put it in alphabetical order'''. Order of preference does not matter. Feel free to denote the character's franchise of origin, although these distinctions may not figure into the final results. <br /> #You '''cannot''' pick a specific version of Optimus Prime, Bumblebee, Megatron or Starscream. They're already being inducted!<br /> #Only one entry per user.<br /> <br /> <br /> Please put your characters of choice and user name below in the following manner:<br /> <br /> <br /> *Bulkhead (Animated), Emirate Xaaron, Side Swipe (Armada), Waspinator (BW), X-Brawn --(four tildes)<br /> <br /> <br /> Poll entry period ends '''April 21st, 2010'''. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 01:19, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ==Poll entries==<br /> * Bluestreak (G1), Drift, Lio Junior, Skyfire (G1), Wheelie (Movie) --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 01:23, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Elita One, Hellbat, Shokaract, Ultra Magnus, Wipe-Out --[[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 01:31, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Dinobot, Drift, Hot Shot, Shokaract, Ravage --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:36, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Impactor, Jhiaxus, Liege Maximo, Scrounge, Straxus --[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 01:43, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Dinobot, Drift, Hopper, Shokaract, Straxus --[[User:Jhiaxus|Jhiaxus]] 01:45, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Blackarachnia (BW), Bludgeon (G1), Hot Rod (G1), Jazz (G1), Prowl (Animated) --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 01:46, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Blaster (G1), Nightbeat (G1), Rhinox (BW), Shockwave (G1), Sky-Byte (RID) --[[User:G1MarvelBlaster|G1MarvelBlaster]] 01:49, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Dualor, Scorponok, Sky-Byte, Ratchet, Rattrap - [[User:RolonBolon|RolonBolon]] 01:59, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Dinobot, Emirate Xaaron, &quot;Piano Transformer Guy&quot;, Wreck-Gar (Animated), Wreck-Gar (G1) [[User:Monty Prime|Monty Prime]] 02:07, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Dinobot, Grimlock, Ravage, Soundwave, Waspinator -- [[User:Cyberlink420|Cyberlink420]] 02:12, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Arcee (Animated), Blackarachnia (Animated), Elita One, Ravage, Wreck-Gar (Animated)--[[User:Wednesday|Wednesday]] 02:12, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Ironhide (Movie), Prowl (Animated), Rhinox, Sky-Byte, Soundwave --[[User:Abates|abates]] 02:18, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Devastator, Laserbeak, Ravage, Shokaract, Ultra Magnus --[[User:LV|LV]] 02:21, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Blitzwing (Animated), Bludgeon (G1), Soundwave (G1), Waspinator, Wreck-Gar (Animated) --[[User:HunterCham|HunterCham]] 03:02, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Bludgeon, Elita One, Impactor, Ratbat, Soundwave -- [[User:Ayellowbirds|Ayellowbirds]] 03:15, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Dinobot, Overlord (G1), Shockwave (Animated), Sunstreaker (G1), Waspinator (BW) --[[User:Sunjumper|Sunjumper]] 03:56, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Blackarachnia, Dinobot, Rattrap, Ultra Magnus, Waspinator --[[User:HotAndCold|HotAndCold]] 04:47, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Devastator (G1), Dinobot, the Fallen, Hot Rod (G1), Optimus Primal -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 05:33, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Jazz (G1), Soundwave (G1), Ultra Magnus (G1), Vector Prime, Wreck-Gar (Animated) --[[User:NCZ|NCZ]] 06:18, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Blitzwing (Animated), Dinobot, Grimlock (G1), Jazz (G1), Waspinator (BW)`--[[User:TVsGrady|TVsGrady]] 09:44, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Dead End (SG), Grimlock (G1), Hubcap (G1), Rattrap, Sky-Byte (RID) --[[User:Bzero|Bzero]] 10:23, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Bruticus, Jazz (G1), Rumble, Shockwave, Shrapnel -- [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 10:26, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Blaster (G1), Perceptor (G1), Rumble (G1), Shockwave (G1), Soundwave (G1) --[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 10:34, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Grimlock (G1), Ramjet (Animated), Sentinel Prime (Animated), Sky-Byte (RID), Waspinator (BW) --[[User:Dan|Dan]] 9:40, 1 April 2010 (CDT)<br /> * Big Daddy (G1), Dinobot (BW), Scrounge (G1), Waspinator (BW), Wheeljack (G1) -- [[User:Tonyfitz|Tonyfitz]] 12:07, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Big Daddy (G1), Bluestreak (G1), Dinobot (BW), Sky-Byte (RID), Waspinator (BW) -- [[User:Bluestreak7|Bluestreak7]] 12:41, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Drift, Sky-Byte, Soundwave (BW), Tarantulas, Waspinator (BW). [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 14:24, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Dinobot, Shockwave, Soundwave, Tarantulas, Waspinator. [[User:Gizen|—Gizen]] 15:00, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Arcee (G1), Elita 1(G1), Prowl (Animated), Rumble (G1), Soundwave.[[User:TFgirl|TFgirl]] 15:11, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Blaster, Nightbeat (G1), Perceptor (G1), Shockwave, Wheeljack --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 15:49, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Dirge (G1), Rattrap, Shockwave (G1), Sixshot (G1), and Soundwave (G1).[[User:Stevo|Stevo]] 15:55, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Blades (G1), Punch, Scourge (RID), Side Burn (RID), and Smokescreen (G1) [[User:Antimatter|Antimatter]] 16:17, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Ratchet, Shockwave, Sunstreaker, Swindle, Waspinator - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 16:42, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Arcee (G1), Dinobot (BW), Galvatron (G1), Hot Rod (G1), Soundwave (G1)---[[User:ACIDSTORM92|ACIDSTORM92]] 17:06, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Grimlock (G1), Optimus Primal (BW), Prowl (Animated), Shockwave (Animated), Sky-Byte (RiD)--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 18:47, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Crankcase (G1), Prowl (RID), Red Alert (Armada), Thundercracker (Cybertron), Vector Prime--[[User:Metal Gear NOIZE|Metal Gear NOIZE]] 22:20, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Cheetor (BW), Dinobot (BW), Ginrai, Optimus Primal, Prowl (Animated) --[[User:Sabrblade|Sabrblade]] 23:00, 1 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Ironhide (Movie), Jetfire (G1), Omega Supreme (G1), Shockwave (G1), Soundwave (G1)--[[User:Shockmatter|Shockmatter]] 00:36, 2 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Ironhide (G1), Jazz (G1), Optimus Primal, Ratchet (G1), Soundwave (G1) -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 00:46, 2 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Prowl (G1), Soundwave (G1), Thunderwing (G1), Waspinator (BW) [[User:Blackjack|Blackjack]] 09:31, 2 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Dinobot (BW), Grimlock (G1), Ravage (G1), Sentinel Prime (Animated), Waspinator [[User:Awa64|Awa64]] 10:39, 2 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Big Daddy (G1), Dinobot (BW), Rattrap (BW), Sky-Byte (RiD), Waspinator (BW) [[User:Hooper X|-hx]] 12:29, 2 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Bludgeon, Bugbite, Grimlock, Shockwave, Soundwave -- [[User:Arborday|Arborday]] 09:24, 3 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Blitzwing (Animated), Cheetor, Soundwave (G1), Warpath (G1), Wreck-Gar (Animated) --[[User:Chocobo prime|Chocobo prime]] 19:34, 3 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Gears, Omega Supreme, Shockwave, Soundwave, Sunstreaker -- [[Special:Contributions/72.205.32.171|72.205.32.171]] 20:36, 3 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Dinobot (BW), Jazz (G1), Soundwave (G1), Swindle (Animated), Tarantulas (BW) -- [[User:soliloquent|soliloquent]] 10:40, 3 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Dinobot (BW), Grimlock (G1), Jazz (G1), Soundwave (G1), Waspinator (BW) --[[User:Tigerpaw28|Tigerpaw28]] 02:25, 4 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Brawn (G1), Grimlock (G1), Optimus Primal (BW), Ratchet (Animated), Slammer (G1) --[[User:Tengu|Tengu]] 03:41, 4 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Blitzwing (Animated), Rotorstorm, Signal Lancer, Sixshot, Wreck-Gar (Animated) --[[User:Apoc|Apoc]] 06:11, 4 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Grimlock (G1), Overlord (Masterforce), Side Burn (RID), Sideways (Armada), Waspinator (BW) --[[User:Fortress Minimus|Fortress Minimus]] 10:50, 4 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> *Grimlock (G1), Overlord (G1), Scourge (RiD), Shockwave (G1), Star Saber (Victory) -- [[User:Kup22|Kup22]] 14:24, 2 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Blitzwing (Animated), Jetfire (G1), Mirage (G1), Perceptor (G1), Prowl (Animated) --[[User:Silver|Silvery]] 14:26, 4 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Dinobot, Grimlock, Hot Rod, Powerdasher (drill), Waspinator -- [[User:JediFlaherty|JediFlaherty]] 01:52, 5 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> *Grimlock (G1), Jetstorm (BM), Shockwave (G1), Sky-Byte, Waspinator -- [[User:Quickstrike|Quickstrike]] 02:02, 5 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Dinobot, Impactor, Shockwave, Soundwave, Ravage --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 04:45, 5 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Grimlock (G1), Ironhide (G1), Optimus Primal (Beast Wars), Rodimus (Classics), Shockwave (G1) --Acheron40 09:50, 5 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Dinobot (BW), Jazz (G1), Perceptor (G1), Swindle (Animated), Tarantulas (BW)--[[User:TPScreenName|TPScreenName]] 12:38, 5 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Bluestreak (G1), Fortress Maximus (G1), Grotusque(G1), Omega Supreme(G1), Sky Dive (G1) --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 13:28, 5 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Bulkhead (Animated), Laserbeak (G1), Ratchet (Animated), Ravage (G1), Shockwave (Animated) --[[Special:Contributions/60.226.34.209|60.226.34.209]] 20:16, 5 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Blitzwing, Grimlock, Jazz, Rodimus Prime, Ultra Magnus (g1) --[[Special:Contributions/203.45.237.63‎|203.45.237.63]] 21:20, 6 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Devastator, Dinobot (BW), Grimlock, Unicron, Waspinator --[[Special:Contributions/136.152.181.185|136.152.181.185]] 20:37, 7 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Galvatron, Ratbat, Rosanna, Swindle, Waspinator -- [[Derrick Wyatt]] 23:06, 7 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Blackarachnia (BW), Blitzwing (Animated), Galvatron (G1), Soundwave (G1), Waspinator (BW) --[[User:Professor Icepick|Professor Icepick]] 23:55, 7 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Big Convoy, Grimlock (G1), Optimus Primal, Rattrap, Sideswipe (SG) --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 03:58, 8 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Cheetor, Dinobot(BW), Esmeral(SG), Paddles, Roadgrabber --[[User:Ennby|Ennby]] 23:59, 8 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Ironhide(G1),Prowl (Animated),Rodimus Prime (G1), Ultra Magnus (G1), Wreck-Gar(Animated)--[[User:OptimusMagnus4|OptimusMagnus4]] 19:35, 9 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Bulkhead (Animated), Dinobot, Grimlock, Ratchet, Tarantulas --[[User:Chip|Chip]] 21:37, 10 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Dinobot, Grimlock, Hot Rod, Rattrap, Star Saber --Darkproject ,09:27, 12 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Grimlock, Jazz, Prowl, Shockwave, Ultra Magnus --[[User:Rav|Rav]] 15:48, 12 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Ironhide (G1), Jazz (Animated), Jazz (G1), Springer (G1), Ultra Magnus -- ABmatrix44<br /> * Dinobot, Grimlock, Hot Rod (G1), Inferno (G1), Rattrap --airfox<br /> * Dinobot, Ginrai, Grimlock (G1), Ironhide (G1), Optimus Primal -[[User:Mazenoise|Mazenoise]] 05:40, 14 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Arcee, Jazz, Ravage, Shockwave, Soundwave -- [[User:Riddlerj|Riddlerj]] 13:31, 14 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Devastator, Dinobot, Grimlock, Shockwave, Soundwave -- [[User:Kcchia80|Kcchia80]] 13:31, 14 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Grimlock (G1), Jazz (G1), Scorponok (G1), Shockwave (G1), Soundwave (G1) -- crazyfist1979 15 April 2010<br /> *Astrotrain (G1), Galvatron (G1), Hot Shot (Armada), Shockwave (Animated) --[[User:BlastWave|BlastWave]] 14:43, 16 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Blurr, Brawn, Grimlock, Rumble, Soundwave --[[User:78.148.165.219|CalvinB]] 08:19, 17 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Blurr, Jazz (G1), Prowl(G1, Soundwave (G1), Ultra Magnus (G1) --[[User:75.178.40.169|JAG]] 10:06, 17 April EST<br /> * Bludgeon (G1), Dinobot (BW), Grimlock (G1), Rosanna, Thundercracker (G1) --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:58, 17 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> *Blitzwing (G1), Grimlock (G1),Prowl (G1),Terrosaur (Beast Wars), Ultra Magnus (RID)--[[Astrotrain85]] 23:08, April 17.<br /> [[Category:TFWiki.net]]<br /> *Blaster,Jazz,Ratchet,Sideswipe,Ultra Magnus [[Special:Contributions/188.222.37.61|188.222.37.61]] 08:34, 18 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> *Jazz, Ramjet, Rattrap, Ultra Magnus, Waspinator -- [[User:Russellestate|Russellestate]] 08:48, 19 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> *Galvatron (G1), Hot Rod, Jetstorm (BM), Rattrap, Scorponok (G1) --[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 09:48, 19 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> *Liege Maximo, Metroplex (G1), Rodimus (G1), Scorponok (G1), Ultra Magnus (G1) -- [[User:AngryRaiden|AngryRaiden]] 09:50, April 19 2010 (EDT)<br /> *Bluestreak (G1), Dinobot(Beast Wars), Demolisher(Armada), Grimlock(G1), Rhinox(Beast Wars) --[Konduct]<br /> *Dinobot, Hot Shot, Ravage, Thunder Clash (G1), Waspinator --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 21:16, 22 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> *Galvatron (G1), Shockwave (Animated), Silverbolt (BW), Sky-Byte, Tankor (BM) --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 21:37, 22 April 2010 (EDT)<br /> * Blitzwing (Animated), Dinobot (BW), Ginrai, Scrounge, Waspinator (BW) --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 00:15, 23 April 2010 (EDT)</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=Talk:Nekomimi_A_and_Nekomimi_B&diff=404664 2009-12-15T07:31:04Z

<p>Suki Brits: /* References */</p> <hr /> <div>Is there any context for this whole episode within anime as a genre? The in-universe description is fine and all, but if anyone can answer the overarching question of ''what the hell'' in a Trivia section, I know I'd really appreciate it. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 20:32, 1 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> :Anime shows that have all SERIOUS OMFG PLOT PLAYED OUT ACROSS A BILLION EPISODES seem to like to pretend they aren't plodding monstrosities by putting the brakes on and having an episode devoted to nothing but being goofy. I mean, I certainly understand the appeal of &quot;gag&quot; episodes, but Japan seems to take to it as ritualistically (and unimaginatively) as they do slapping clip shows together. I think it's an attempt to pad out a season when stretching one episode's worth of plot across five still isn't enough to meet a quota. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 21:40, 1 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::It may answer why they made [[Distribution]], but it doesn't answer the realy overriding question: why the cat ears? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 21:54, 1 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Sure, I get the whole glacial-anime-pacing thing, but I was wondering more about the gag itself. The arena-fight featuring all the characters (and character models) with barely a whit of in-universe justification - does that have precedence as a gag-episode format? - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 22:07, 1 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> :::It's kind of a tradition in kids anime, I believe. The previous 'have nearly nothing to do with the plot' episode was the one with the racing. A few of these shows have pointless racing episodes that are primarily humourous, though the better ones try to integrate it into the serious on-going plot (like Zoids 'Chaotic Century'). --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:15, 2 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Crediting==<br /> They were listed in the Superlink credits with the katakana ネコミミ rather than the kanji Interrobang used, so I replaced it accordingly. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 08:03, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==References==<br /> Don't you think we should limit the references to things that are actual references and not just slight coincidence? Saying that it's probably a coincidence just invites the question, why is it here at all? --[[Special:Contributions/76.167.228.223|76.167.228.223]] 01:07, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> :I didn't write &quot;They '''are''' based on what&quot; (such line is the thing which should be cited). Some trivia is just apparently as it is. ([http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Mount%20St.%20Hilary&amp;action=history Which] remind me &quot;The Mount St. Hilary is based on Mount St. Helens&quot; doesn't need a citation.) And for the argurment in airing date, any upcoming information such as character design or story usually will go public on magazines or website before airing, so it is possible for the staff in other shows to immitate those elements. --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 01:14, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> :::And I didn't say &quot;It '''is''' a reference to&quot; just like somebody said something like &quot;many things in TFA is reference to Gurren Lagaan&quot;. I just say &quot;resemblance&quot;, and it does have the resemblance unless anyone can find another anime (, which predates Superlink/Energon) featuring the similar design. --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 01:31, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::Or, Japanese cartoons are so fucking redundant and cookie-cutter that similarities crop up all over the place without genuine intent, but simply through lack of innovation. That's my vote. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:21, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> Nanoha started in October 2004. Distribution aired November 2004. There is no way this could possibly be a reference, and it's barely a passing similarity anyway. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 01:50, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> :But as I recalled, information/character design sheet and pictures for Nanoha had been released much earlier than it was on air. (And I've considered this and check up before I write it into the Trivia section.) So it is not impossible. --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 01:56, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::[http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Nekomimi_A_and_Nekomimi_B&amp;curid=2509&amp;diff=404643&amp;oldid=404641 Re:edit summary]<br /> ::I used a comment tag is because it is still under discussing in the talk page. And it does have the resemblance no matter on color scheme, hair color or hair style. --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 02:05, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> :::Commenting out the offending text is absolutely pointless. Either it shows up or it doesn't. If we decide to keep the information (which we won't), then the text will be in the article and not before. And &quot;slight resemblance&quot; is still not notable. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 02:10, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::::Back in the day I added it, I wanted to use &quot;resemble&quot;, but I choose to use slight because I was affraid some one will have &quot;words&quot; to say. However, it does resemble, not only &quot;slight&quot;. And if the note is not okay, why only mention now instead back in those days? And why is the anon user brought this issue isn't present? --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 02:14, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::::The reason of the note got deleted first time is &quot;[http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Nekomimi_A_and_Nekomimi_B&amp;diff=404643&amp;oldid=403893 A blonde &amp;a brunette catgirl look like a blonde &amp; a brunette from some anime, must be intentional.]&quot;, but I said it is not only hair color, but also body color. And I forgot to mention one of them got so-called &quot;twintail&quot;. --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 02:27, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> :::Yes, and this episode probably started development way before the promotional materials for Nanoha were released. And do you really think it's likely that some Superlink animator would really want to pay homage to some oddball cross-genre sequel to Triangle Hearts? Really? It's not like the show had a lot of prerelease hype. What's significantly more likely is that Nekomimi A has a passing resemblance to Nanoha because she's a brunette in a schoolgirl coloured costume, and Nekomimi B is vaguely similar to Fate because she's a blonde with a black dress. This is not a major similarity. More specifically, Nekomimi B's colour scheme is NOTHING like Fate's aside from that; Fate doesn't have a dress, she doesn't have pink or white all over her, she doesn't have anything frilly on her whatsoever, let alone an apron. Nekomimi A, meanwhile, has the same colour scheme, sure. So do a bajillion other characters in anime. It's the single most common colour scheme in existence. What don't they have in common? Nanoha is a small girl with an ankle length skirt. Nekomimi A has a mini-skirt, a weird cape-thing, and giant breasts. Edit: And they don't even have the same kind of tie! Nanoha's is a bow.<br /> :::Any similarity is INCREDIBLY superficial, and it's completely unreasonable to think that, given the development timelines, it could've possibly been a deliberate reference. This is not even slightly noteworthy. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 02:12, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::I know what you're saying. But I still have things to say about something you mention. An homage can't be always 100% homage or resemblance, so it's comprehensible such as Nekomimi B have a dress and have pink which Fate doesn't have. Not to mention what skirt or breast. And what's more, I only wrote:<br /> :::''The color schemes of Nekomimi A and Nekomimi B bear a slight resemblance to those of Nanoha and Fate.''<br /> ::I never wrote<br /> :::''Nekomimi A and Nekomimi B is based on Nanoha and Fate.''<br /> ::nor<br /> :::''Nekomimi A and Nekomimi B may be a reference to Nanoha and Fate.''<br /> ::--'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 02:19, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> :&lt;big&gt;'''NO.'''&lt;/big&gt;--[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 02:28, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> :::The only things that Fate has in common with Nekomimi B is that they have blonde hair, and they wear black. The only thing that Nanoha has in common with Nekomimi A is that they both have brown hair, and they wear a schoolgirl uniform. That's it. There are dozens of other anime characters that could easily fit that description. It's a ridiculous thing to mention to begin with. Are we going to list every single character with blonde pigtails and black stockings on this page? That would go on forever, and it would be absolutely no more relevant than mentioning just Fate. '''This is ridiculous''' and I can't believe this conversation is even happening. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 02:31, 15 December 2009 (EST)</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=Talk:Nekomimi_A_and_Nekomimi_B&diff=404654 2009-12-15T07:15:13Z

<p>Suki Brits: </p> <hr /> <div>Is there any context for this whole episode within anime as a genre? The in-universe description is fine and all, but if anyone can answer the overarching question of ''what the hell'' in a Trivia section, I know I'd really appreciate it. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 20:32, 1 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> :Anime shows that have all SERIOUS OMFG PLOT PLAYED OUT ACROSS A BILLION EPISODES seem to like to pretend they aren't plodding monstrosities by putting the brakes on and having an episode devoted to nothing but being goofy. I mean, I certainly understand the appeal of &quot;gag&quot; episodes, but Japan seems to take to it as ritualistically (and unimaginatively) as they do slapping clip shows together. I think it's an attempt to pad out a season when stretching one episode's worth of plot across five still isn't enough to meet a quota. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 21:40, 1 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::It may answer why they made [[Distribution]], but it doesn't answer the realy overriding question: why the cat ears? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 21:54, 1 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Sure, I get the whole glacial-anime-pacing thing, but I was wondering more about the gag itself. The arena-fight featuring all the characters (and character models) with barely a whit of in-universe justification - does that have precedence as a gag-episode format? - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 22:07, 1 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> :::It's kind of a tradition in kids anime, I believe. The previous 'have nearly nothing to do with the plot' episode was the one with the racing. A few of these shows have pointless racing episodes that are primarily humourous, though the better ones try to integrate it into the serious on-going plot (like Zoids 'Chaotic Century'). --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:15, 2 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Crediting==<br /> They were listed in the Superlink credits with the katakana ネコミミ rather than the kanji Interrobang used, so I replaced it accordingly. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 08:03, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==References==<br /> Don't you think we should limit the references to things that are actual references and not just slight coincidence? Saying that it's probably a coincidence just invites the question, why is it here at all? --[[Special:Contributions/76.167.228.223|76.167.228.223]] 01:07, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> :I didn't write &quot;They '''are''' based on what&quot; (such line is the thing which should be cited). Some trivia is just apparently as it is. ([http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Mount%20St.%20Hilary&amp;action=history Which] remind me &quot;The Mount St. Hilary is based on Mount St. Helens&quot; doesn't need a citation.) And for the argurment in airing date, any upcoming information such as character design or story usually will go public on magazines or website before airing, so it is possible for the staff in other shows to immitate those elements. --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 01:14, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> :::And I didn't say &quot;It '''is''' a reference to&quot; just like somebody said something like &quot;many things in TFA is reference to Gurren Lagaan&quot;. I just say &quot;resemblance&quot;, and it does have the resemblance unless anyone can find another anime (, which predates Superlink/Energon) featuring the similar design. --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 01:31, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::Or, Japanese cartoons are so fucking redundant and cookie-cutter that similarities crop up all over the place without genuine intent, but simply through lack of innovation. That's my vote. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:21, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> Nanoha started in October 2004. Distribution aired November 2004. There is no way this could possibly be a reference, and it's barely a passing similarity anyway. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 01:50, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> :But as I recalled, information/character design sheet and pictures for Nanoha had been released much earlier than it was on air. (And I've considered this and check up before I write it into the Trivia section.) So it is not impossible. --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 01:56, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::[http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Nekomimi_A_and_Nekomimi_B&amp;curid=2509&amp;diff=404643&amp;oldid=404641 Re:edit summary]<br /> ::I used a comment tag is because it is still under discussing in the talk page. And it does have the resemblance no matter on color scheme, hair color or hair style. --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 02:05, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> :::Commenting out the offending text is absolutely pointless. Either it shows up or it doesn't. If we decide to keep the information (which we won't), then the text will be in the article and not before. And &quot;slight resemblance&quot; is still not notable. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 02:10, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::::Back in the day I added it, I wanted to use &quot;resemble&quot;, but I choose to use slight because I was affraid some one will have &quot;words&quot; to say. However, it does resemble, not only &quot;slight&quot;. And if the note is not okay, why only mention now instead back in those days? --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 02:14, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> :::Yes, and this episode probably started development way before the promotional materials for Nanoha were released. And do you really think it's likely that some Superlink animator would really want to pay homage to some oddball cross-genre sequel to Triangle Hearts? Really? It's not like the show had a lot of prerelease hype. What's significantly more likely is that Nekomimi A has a passing resemblance to Nanoha because she's a brunette in a schoolgirl coloured costume, and Nekomimi B is vaguely similar to Fate because she's a blonde with a black dress. This is not a major similarity. More specifically, Nekomimi B's colour scheme is NOTHING like Fate's aside from that; Fate doesn't have a dress, she doesn't have pink or white all over her, she doesn't have anything frilly on her whatsoever, let alone an apron. Nekomimi A, meanwhile, has the same colour scheme, sure. So do a bajillion other characters in anime. It's the single most common colour scheme in existence. What don't they have in common? Nanoha is a small girl with an ankle length skirt. Nekomimi A has a mini-skirt, a weird cape-thing, and giant breasts. Edit: And they don't even have the same kind of tie! Nanoha's is a bow.<br /> :::Any similarity is INCREDIBLY superficial, and it's completely unreasonable to think that, given the development timelines, it could've possibly been a deliberate reference. This is not even slightly noteworthy. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 02:12, 15 December 2009 (EST)</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=Talk:Nekomimi_A_and_Nekomimi_B&diff=404651 2009-12-15T07:12:51Z

<p>Suki Brits: </p> <hr /> <div>Is there any context for this whole episode within anime as a genre? The in-universe description is fine and all, but if anyone can answer the overarching question of ''what the hell'' in a Trivia section, I know I'd really appreciate it. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 20:32, 1 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> :Anime shows that have all SERIOUS OMFG PLOT PLAYED OUT ACROSS A BILLION EPISODES seem to like to pretend they aren't plodding monstrosities by putting the brakes on and having an episode devoted to nothing but being goofy. I mean, I certainly understand the appeal of &quot;gag&quot; episodes, but Japan seems to take to it as ritualistically (and unimaginatively) as they do slapping clip shows together. I think it's an attempt to pad out a season when stretching one episode's worth of plot across five still isn't enough to meet a quota. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 21:40, 1 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::It may answer why they made [[Distribution]], but it doesn't answer the realy overriding question: why the cat ears? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 21:54, 1 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Sure, I get the whole glacial-anime-pacing thing, but I was wondering more about the gag itself. The arena-fight featuring all the characters (and character models) with barely a whit of in-universe justification - does that have precedence as a gag-episode format? - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 22:07, 1 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> :::It's kind of a tradition in kids anime, I believe. The previous 'have nearly nothing to do with the plot' episode was the one with the racing. A few of these shows have pointless racing episodes that are primarily humourous, though the better ones try to integrate it into the serious on-going plot (like Zoids 'Chaotic Century'). --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:15, 2 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Crediting==<br /> They were listed in the Superlink credits with the katakana ネコミミ rather than the kanji Interrobang used, so I replaced it accordingly. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 08:03, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==References==<br /> Don't you think we should limit the references to things that are actual references and not just slight coincidence? Saying that it's probably a coincidence just invites the question, why is it here at all? --[[Special:Contributions/76.167.228.223|76.167.228.223]] 01:07, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> :I didn't write &quot;They '''are''' based on what&quot; (such line is the thing which should be cited). Some trivia is just apparently as it is. ([http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Mount%20St.%20Hilary&amp;action=history Which] remind me &quot;The Mount St. Hilary is based on Mount St. Helens&quot; doesn't need a citation.) And for the argurment in airing date, any upcoming information such as character design or story usually will go public on magazines or website before airing, so it is possible for the staff in other shows to immitate those elements. --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 01:14, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> :::And I didn't say &quot;It '''is''' a reference to&quot; just like somebody said something like &quot;many things in TFA is reference to Gurren Lagaan&quot;. I just say &quot;resemblance&quot;, and it does have the resemblance unless anyone can find another anime (, which predates Superlink/Energon) featuring the similar design. --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 01:31, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::Or, Japanese cartoons are so fucking redundant and cookie-cutter that similarities crop up all over the place without genuine intent, but simply through lack of innovation. That's my vote. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:21, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> Nanoha started in October 2004. Distribution aired November 2004. There is no way this could possibly be a reference, and it's barely a passing similarity anyway. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 01:50, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> :But as I recalled, information/character design sheet and pictures for Nanoha had been released much earlier than it was on air. (And I've considered this and check up before I write it into the Trivia section.) So it is not impossible. --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 01:56, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::[http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Nekomimi_A_and_Nekomimi_B&amp;curid=2509&amp;diff=404643&amp;oldid=404641 Re:edit summary]<br /> ::I used a comment tag is because it is still under discussing in the talk page. And it does have the resemblance no matter on color scheme, hair color or hair style. --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 02:05, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> :::Commenting out the offending text is absolutely pointless. Either it shows up or it doesn't. If we decide to keep the information (which we won't), then the text will be in the article and not before. And &quot;slight resemblance&quot; is still not notable. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 02:10, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> :::Yes, and this episode probably started development way before the promotional materials for Nanoha were released. And do you really think it's likely that some Superlink animator would really want to pay homage to some oddball cross-genre sequel to Triangle Hearts? Really? It's not like the show had a lot of prerelease hype. What's significantly more likely is that Nekomimi A has a passing resemblance to Nanoha because she's a brunette in a schoolgirl coloured costume, and Nekomimi B is vaguely similar to Fate because she's a blonde with a black dress. This is not a major similarity. More specifically, Nekomimi B's colour scheme is NOTHING like Fate's aside from that; Fate doesn't have a dress, she doesn't have pink or white all over her, she doesn't have anything frilly on her whatsoever, let alone an apron. Nekomimi A, meanwhile, has the same colour scheme, sure. So do a bajillion other characters in anime. It's the single most common colour scheme in existence. What don't they have in common? Nanoha is a small girl with an ankle length skirt. Nekomimi A has a mini-skirt, a weird cape-thing, and giant breasts.<br /> :::Any similarity is INCREDIBLY superficial, and it's completely unreasonable to think that, given the development timelines, it could've possibly been a deliberate reference. This is not even slightly noteworthy. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 02:12, 15 December 2009 (EST)</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=Talk:Nekomimi_A_and_Nekomimi_B&diff=404631 2009-12-15T06:50:49Z

<p>Suki Brits: /* References */</p> <hr /> <div>Is there any context for this whole episode within anime as a genre? The in-universe description is fine and all, but if anyone can answer the overarching question of ''what the hell'' in a Trivia section, I know I'd really appreciate it. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 20:32, 1 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> :Anime shows that have all SERIOUS OMFG PLOT PLAYED OUT ACROSS A BILLION EPISODES seem to like to pretend they aren't plodding monstrosities by putting the brakes on and having an episode devoted to nothing but being goofy. I mean, I certainly understand the appeal of &quot;gag&quot; episodes, but Japan seems to take to it as ritualistically (and unimaginatively) as they do slapping clip shows together. I think it's an attempt to pad out a season when stretching one episode's worth of plot across five still isn't enough to meet a quota. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 21:40, 1 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::It may answer why they made [[Distribution]], but it doesn't answer the realy overriding question: why the cat ears? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 21:54, 1 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Sure, I get the whole glacial-anime-pacing thing, but I was wondering more about the gag itself. The arena-fight featuring all the characters (and character models) with barely a whit of in-universe justification - does that have precedence as a gag-episode format? - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 22:07, 1 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> :::It's kind of a tradition in kids anime, I believe. The previous 'have nearly nothing to do with the plot' episode was the one with the racing. A few of these shows have pointless racing episodes that are primarily humourous, though the better ones try to integrate it into the serious on-going plot (like Zoids 'Chaotic Century'). --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:15, 2 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Crediting==<br /> They were listed in the Superlink credits with the katakana ネコミミ rather than the kanji Interrobang used, so I replaced it accordingly. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 08:03, 9 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==References==<br /> Don't you think we should limit the references to things that are actual references and not just slight coincidence? Saying that it's probably a coincidence just invites the question, why is it here at all? --[[Special:Contributions/76.167.228.223|76.167.228.223]] 01:07, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> :I didn't write &quot;They '''are''' based on what&quot; (such line is the thing which should be cited). Some trivia is just apparently as it is. ([http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Mount%20St.%20Hilary&amp;action=history Which] remind me &quot;The Mount St. Hilary is based on Mount St. Helens&quot; doesn't need a citation.) And for the argurment in airing date, any upcoming information such as character design or story usually will go public on magazines or website before airing, so it is possible for the staff in other shows to immitate those elements. --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 01:14, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> :::And I didn't say &quot;It '''is''' a reference to&quot; just like somebody said something like &quot;many things in TFA is reference to Gurren Lagaan&quot;. I just say &quot;resemblance&quot;, and it does have the resemblance unless anyone can find another anime (, which predates Superlink/Energon) featuring the similar design. --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 01:31, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> ::Or, Japanese cartoons are so fucking redundant and cookie-cutter that similarities crop up all over the place without genuine intent, but simply through lack of innovation. That's my vote. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 01:21, 15 December 2009 (EST)<br /> <br /> Nanoha started in October 2004. Distribution aired November 2004. There is no way this could possibly be a reference, and it's barely a passing similarity anyway. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 01:50, 15 December 2009 (EST)</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=Main_Page&diff=389582 2009-11-12T00:16:08Z

<p>Suki Brits: Moving editing tips, per M Sipher&#039;s request.</p> <hr /> <div>__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__<br /> &lt;span id=&quot;esmeral&quot;&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> {{:Main Page/disambig}}<br /> {| border=&quot;0&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot; cellpadding=&quot;0&quot; width=&quot;100%&quot;<br /> |-<br /> |style=&quot;text-align:center;&quot; width=&quot;60%&quot; valign=&quot;top&quot;|&lt;imagemap&gt;<br /> Image:Tf2009-rotfdvdfieldguide.jpg|360px|center<br /> default [[Revenge of the Fallen DVD field guide|Revenge is coming... to a store near you!]]<br /> desc none<br /> &lt;/imagemap&gt;<br /> &lt;choose&gt;<br /> &lt;option&gt;&lt;imagemap&gt;Image:TFWIKInet-twins.jpg|347px|frameless<br /> default [[The Twins]]<br /> desc none&lt;/imagemap&gt;&lt;/option&gt;<br /> &lt;option&gt;&lt;imagemap&gt;Image:TFWIKInet-Fallen.jpg|347px|frameless<br /> default [[The Fallen]]<br /> desc none&lt;/imagemap&gt;&lt;/option&gt;<br /> &lt;option&gt;&lt;imagemap&gt;Image:TFWIKInet-Megatron.jpg|347px|frameless<br /> default [[Megatron (Movie)]]<br /> desc none&lt;/imagemap&gt;&lt;/option&gt;<br /> &lt;option&gt;&lt;imagemap&gt;Image:TFWIKInet-Ironhide.jpg|347px|frameless<br /> default [[Ironhide (Movie)]]<br /> desc none&lt;/imagemap&gt;&lt;/option&gt;<br /> &lt;option&gt;&lt;imagemap&gt;Image:TFWIKInet-Ravage.jpg|347px|frameless<br /> default [[Ravage (ROTF)]]<br /> desc none&lt;/imagemap&gt;&lt;/option&gt;<br /> &lt;option&gt;&lt;imagemap&gt;Image:TFWIKInet-Bumblebee.jpg|347px|frameless<br /> default [[Bumblebee (Movie)]]<br /> desc none&lt;/imagemap&gt;&lt;/option&gt;<br /> &lt;option&gt;&lt;imagemap&gt;Image:TFWIKInet-Optimus.jpg|347px|frameless<br /> default [[Optimus Prime (Movie)]]<br /> desc none&lt;/imagemap&gt;&lt;/option&gt;<br /> &lt;option&gt;&lt;imagemap&gt;Image:TFWIKInet-Devastator.jpg|347px|frameless<br /> default [[Devastator (ROTF)]]<br /> desc none&lt;/imagemap&gt;&lt;/option&gt;<br /> &lt;option&gt;&lt;imagemap&gt;Image:TFWIKInet-Starscream.jpg|347px|frameless<br /> default [[Starscream (Movie)]]<br /> desc none&lt;/imagemap&gt;&lt;/option&gt;<br /> &lt;option&gt;&lt;imagemap&gt;Image:TFWIKInet-Sideswipe.jpg|347px|frameless<br /> default [[Sideswipe (ROTF)]]<br /> desc none&lt;/imagemap&gt;&lt;/option&gt;<br /> &lt;option&gt;&lt;imagemap&gt;Image:TFWIKInet-Ratchet.jpg|347px|frameless<br /> default [[Ratchet (Movie)]]<br /> desc none&lt;/imagemap&gt;&lt;/option&gt;<br /> &lt;/choose&gt;<br /> &lt;div id=&quot;site-notice&quot; class=&quot;site-notice&quot; style=&quot;border:green dashed 2px;margin:1em .5em;border-left:none;border-right:none;padding:.5em 0;&quot;&gt;'''The [[Hasbro Q&amp;A/October 2009: Answers|answers to Hasbro's October Q&amp;A session]] are in!'''&lt;/div&gt;<br /> &lt;div style=&quot;margin:.5em;&quot;&gt;<br /> We're also at [http://www.tfwiki.info/ tfwiki.info] and these websites:&lt;imagemap&gt;<br /> Image:External website link icons.png|center<br /> rect 0 0 67 69 [http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=28226443881 Give me your Facebook!]<br /> rect 67 0 135 69 [http://twitter.com/tfwiki Our Twitter feed]<br /> rect 135 0 206 69 [http://tfwiki.blogspot.com/ Our status blog]<br /> desc none<br /> &lt;/imagemap&gt;&lt;/div&gt;<br /> |width=&quot;40%&quot;|<br /> <br /> {{Featurebox<br /> |Featured Series<br /> |color=#999<br /> |id=featured-series<br /> |view=Main Page/featured-series<br /> |content={{:Main Page/featured-series}}<br /> }}<br /> |}<br /> {| border=&quot;0&quot; cellspacing=&quot;0&quot; cellpadding=&quot;0&quot;<br /> |- valign=&quot;top&quot;<br /> | width=&quot;50%&quot;|<br /> {{Featurebox<br /> |Featured Article<br /> |color=#c93<br /> |id=featured-article<br /> |view=Main Page/featured-article<br /> |content={{:Main Page/featured-article}}&lt;p style=&quot;text-align:right&quot;&gt;[[:Category:Featured articles|More Featured Articles]]&lt;/p&gt;<br /> }}<br /> <br /> {{Featurebox<br /> |Holy Grails<br /> |color=#606<br /> |id=holy-grails<br /> |content={{:Main Page/holy-grails}}<br /> |view=Main Page/holy-grails<br /> }}<br /> <br /> {{Featurebox<br /> |Editing Tips<br /> |color=#000<br /> |id=editing-tips<br /> |content={{:Main Page/editing-tips}}<br /> |view=Main Page/editing-tips<br /> }}<br /> <br /> | width=&quot;50%&quot;|<br /> {{Featurebox<br /> |Continuities<br /> |color=#039<br /> |id=continuities<br /> |content={{:Main_Page/continuities}}<br /> |view=Main_Page/continuities<br /> }}<br /> <br /> {{Featurebox<br /> |Categories<br /> |color=#c03<br /> |id=categories<br /> |content={{:Main_Page/categories}}<br /> |view=Main_Page/categories<br /> }}<br /> <br /> {{Featurebox<br /> |This Day in History: {{#ifeq:{{LOCALMONTHNAME}} {{LOCALDAY}}|May 8|{{LOCALMONTHNAME}} {{LOCALDAY}}&lt;br&gt;Happy {{#expr:{{CURRENTYEAR}}-1984}}{{#switch:{{#expr:({{CURRENTYEAR}}-1984) mod 10}}|1=st|2=nd|3=rd|th}} Anniversary to Transformers!|{{LOCALMONTHNAME}} {{LOCALDAY}}}}<br /> |content={{#ifexist:{{LOCALMONTHNAME}} {{LOCALDAY}}| {{:{{LOCALMONTHNAME}} {{LOCALDAY}}}}|<br /> *It looks like today was a pretty boring day in Transformers history. If you can think of anything we missed, please [[{{LOCALMONTHNAME}} {{LOCALDAY}}|help us by adding it]]!}}<br /> |id=this-day<br /> |color=green<br /> |view={{LOCALMONTHNAME}} {{LOCALDAY}}<br /> }}<br /> <br /> {{Featurebox<br /> |Schedule<br /> |color=#754c24<br /> |id=schedule<br /> |content={{:Main Page/schedule}}<br /> |view=Main Page/schedule<br /> }}<br /> |}<br /> <br /> {{Featurebox<br /> |Series Information<br /> |color=#096<br /> |id=series-information<br /> |content={{:Main_Page/series-information}}<br /> |view=Main_Page/series-information<br /> }}<br /> <br /> [[Category:Top-level categories]]</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=Battle_Unicorn&diff=382973 2009-10-26T21:14:14Z

<p>Suki Brits: They finally sold out!</p> <hr /> <div>{{factions|maximalbm}}<br /> :''Battle Unicorn is a [[Maximal]] from the [[Beast Machines (franchise)|Beast Machines]] portion of the [[Generation 1 continuity family]].''<br /> <br /> [[Image:BM-toy BattleUnicornRobot.jpg|right|250px|thumb|Box art?! I don't need no stinkin' box art!]]<br /> <br /> Certain [[Vehicon general|Vehicon generals]] doubt the existence of a mysterious [[technorganic]] unicorn which doesn't show up on radar, moves without sound, appears and disappears like magic, and leaves only scrambled, indecipherable sensor logs in his wake. Those that have fought '''Battle Unicorn''', however, quickly learn that his fanciful alternate mode and prosaic designation disguise a powerful warrior, as intelligent and stealthy as he is skilled with his battle axe should a combatant actually manage to engage him. His stealth armor, sound dampers, sensor-scrambling hoof-stomps, and unique teleportation abilities combine to make this a rare occurrence, and make Battle Unicorn an excellent scout.<br /> <br /> <br /> ==Fiction==<br /> [[Image:Maximalhighcouncil.jpg|left|200px|thumb|Primal interrupted their intense zoning regulations debate.]]<br /> ===3H Universe Comics===<br /> Battle Unicorn was a member of the [[Maximal High Council]] in the time after [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]]'s defeat and [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]]'s [[technorganic]] [[Great Reformatting|reformatting]]. He, like the rest of the council, was apparently unmoved by [[Optimus Primal]]'s return and prophecies of [[Unicron]]-borne doom. {{storylink|Homecoming (issue)|Homecoming}}<br /> <br /> {{-}}<br /> <br /> <br /> ==Toys==<br /> ===Beast Machines===<br /> [[Image:BM-toy BattleUnicornBeast.jpg|right|250px|thumb|For some reason, a lot of dyslexic fans seem disappointed to see me.]]<br /> *'''Battle Unicorn''' (Basic, 2001)<br /> **''Accessories'': Battle-ax<br /> <br /> : Battle Unicorn transforms into a technorganic unicorn. The dial containing his [[spark crystal]] on the beast mode's left shoulder activates an &quot;attack&quot; gimmick, moving his head up and down in a headbutt/ramming attack. His tail 'n' mane form a massive battle ax for use in robot mode.<br /> <br /> : Released at the very end of the [[Beast Machines (toyline)|''Beast Machines'' line]], Battle Unicorn had an exceptionally short &quot;shelf life&quot;, leading to many fans never seeing him on the shelf at all. However, [[Hasbro]] worked out a deal with online toy store Big Bad Toy Store, selling them solid cases of the figure (which managed to fill their warehouse for a good eight years).<br /> <br /> : This mold was later [[redeco]]ed to make [[Magna Stampede]].<br /> <br /> ::*''[http://www.tfu.info/2001/Maximal/BattleUnicorn/battleunicorn.htm More information on Battle Unicorn at TFU.info]''<br /> <br /> <br /> ==Trivia==<br /> * In the original script to the unreleased [[The Wreckers: Finale Part 1|''Wreckers'' issue #4]], &quot;Battle Unicorn&quot; was not an individual, but the name of a legion of warriors with the same body form. They were considered the best of the best of the post-''Beast Machines'' Cybertronian army: polished, epic, and intimidating. They let the less-organized and less-impressive rabble ride into battle on their backs. This is curious, as a Battle Unicorn later appears on the Maximal High Council in ''[[Universe (2003 comic)|Universe]]'', as seen above. Maybe one wanted to go into politics...<br /> <br /> <br /> [[Category:Beast Machines characters]]<br /> [[Category:Maximal leaders]]<br /> [[Category:Maximals]]<br /> [[Category:Universe characters]]<br /> [[Category:Mass-produced Transformers]]</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki_talk:Community_Portal&diff=380549 2009-10-21T20:06:32Z

<p>Suki Brits: /* A potential solution */</p> <hr /> <div>__NEWSECTIONLINK__<br /> <br /> This is the place for discussion of topics that affect the entire wiki. Some topics that would ordinarily be here have merited their own pages:<br /> <br /> {{chapters|title=Specific Discussion Subjects|align=left|content=<br /> &lt;div class=&quot;list-header&quot;&gt;'''Moving From Wikia:'''&lt;/div&gt;<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving|Arriving]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving|Leaving]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki:Community Portal/Complaints|Complaints]]<br /> &lt;br/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;list-header&quot;&gt;'''New Ad Policy:'''&lt;/div&gt;<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki:Ads|Ads]]<br /> &lt;br/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;list-header&quot;&gt;'''Bookworm Database-Crash:'''&lt;/div&gt;<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central|Damage Control Central]]<br /> * [[Project:Bookworm Crash]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving2|Leaving Take 2]]<br /> &lt;br/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;list-header&quot;&gt;'''Server Move:'''&lt;/div&gt;<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving2|Arriving Take 2]]<br /> &lt;br/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;list-header&quot;&gt;'''Relicensing:'''&lt;/div&gt;<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Relicensing|Relicensing]]<br /> &lt;br/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;list-header&quot;&gt;'''Dealing With Vandalism:'''&lt;/div&gt;<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Vandalism|Vandalism]]<br /> }}&lt;br/&gt;<br /> &lt;!--BEGIN ARCHIVE NAV INCLUDE--&gt;<br /> {{:{{FULLPAGENAMEE}}/Archive}}<br /> &lt;!--END ARCHIVE NAV INCLUDE--&gt;<br /> <br /> == Boxes gone from disambig templates? ==<br /> I noticed the disambiguation templates don't seem to have those gray boxes behind them anymore. Is this intentional? Because it's confusing. -[[User:Mazenoise|Mazenoise]] 08:16, 17 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Derik shifted the CSS styling into the stylesheet. Your browser probably had the old stylesheet cached, but a shift-reload should fix it. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 08:20, 17 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Yeah, it did actually. Thanks! -[[User:Mazenoise|Mazenoise]] 08:29, 17 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> And they (well, the ones Derik hit anyway) sprouted a thick grey left border in the transition because...? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 11:34, 17 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I forget the reason. Rest assured that it did make sense though!<br /> :Main advantage of switching the disambig boxes to CSS: When you have multiple in a row, they stack prettier without a double-outline between them. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:47, 17 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::''I forget the reason. Rest assured that it did make sense though!''<br /> ::If that's not a Derikism, it deserves to be. (And is the main reason why I'm scared of changing to external CSS rather than inline CSS - you having the keys to the styles virtually unfettered, since those admins who could either override or yank the emopanda CSS mostly either don't know how or are absent much of the time)<br /> ::So now we have disambig templates that are unique amongst messageboxen in a particularly... nondescript way. Different enough to be irritating, not different enough to serve any real purpose. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:09, 17 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Eh? Oh, I thought I changed it back. (I remembered why they had a border on the left... I was testing something and decided it didn't work, I didn't realize it was still on.)<br /> :::In theory Scout was going to make some changes last week to move us out of the existing CSS situation with much less living in my dev file... but she seems to have forgotten... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:24, 17 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::What was she planning to do? I can have a crack at it. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:29, 17 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Move a bunch of stuff to [[MediaWiki:common.css]], I expect.<br /> :::::(Note the difference between Common.css [all skins, including the ones no-one uses like Simple and MySkin], Monacobook.css [Monacobook only] and Monobook.css [Monobook only]. Scout [[User_talk:Suki_Brits#.22Fixed.22_Monobook|forgot about Monobook]] the last time common.css was edited. Incidentally, where did she ultimately put those changes? They ain't in the empty Monacobook.css.) - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:44, 17 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::I have a suspicion that the plan may be to create a new user class with rights to edit css files here (in which case I don't have the necessary access rights to do so)... --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:59, 17 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::That was the one. :) Either she forgot, or she tried and it didn't work. I'll bug her when I remember. (It's not like it's pressing... it's been needing doing for some time so it can wait a bit longer.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:33, 17 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::And to answer the css question, the changes are in [http://tfwiki.net/w2/skins/monacobook/tt1.css this file] which isn't editable through the Mediawiki interface. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 00:03, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::&quot;Scout, I have 3 requests.&quot;<br /> :::::::&quot;No, no, yes if I don't have to do any work.&quot;<br /> :::::::-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:51, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::Did that ever get done in the end? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:45, 19 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == WTF? ==<br /> Why does [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive11|Archive 11]] even exist? --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:35, 1 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Obscure BW comic, anyone? ==<br /> Alright for the past while now, I've been looking up and adding in obscure Beast Wars products. I remembered both the Mutating Card Game and both Jigsaw Puzzles, and I've already taken note to add those in. But one piece of memorabilia that has still eluded me is a really old comic... My memory's a bit fuzzy on this one, and I can't quite recall if it was a seperate mini-comic from the two-pack of &quot;Optimus vs. Megatron!&quot; or if the scenes I'm remembering are part of that comic as well.<br /> The only scenes I recall from said comic are the opening, where a pre-earth mode Cheetor peeks through some vegetation to reveal a (very small) crystal. The subsequent dialog explained that they had to take on beast modes to overcome the toxic radiation of the crystal (much like the tv show).<br /> Anyone has any similar recollection? Or if anyone has scans of the &quot;Optimus vs. Megatron!&quot; mini-comic to clear up wether or not it is a scene from that comic that I'm remembering, I'd appreciate it. In any case, I hope I'm not going crazy and remembering a comic that doesn't exist, because as far as I can tell, it's not listed on the Beast Wars comics page. Thanks --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] 14:23, 3 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :It's not the &quot;Optimus Primal Vs. Megatron!&quot; comic, that one starts with Primal(in beast mode) flying in the sky, and then Cheetor running in the dark with a glow in his eyes. Unless you mistake the sparkle in his eyes for a crystal, it's not the same comic.--[[User:Sunjumper|Sunjumper]] 13:41, 5 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Categories for modes? ==<br /> <br /> I've been trying to find out which transformer one of my old toys is, and I'd hoped I could compare it against each of the transformers with an aeroplane mode - but I couldn't find such a list. So I wondered whether it would be a good idea to have categories for the transformers' modes, so I could go to [[:Category:Aeroplanes]] and look it up like that. Good idea? I'm not volunteering to do the legwork :-) [[Special:Contributions/86.7.22.40|86.7.22.40]] 06:50, 5 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :[http://tfu.info/ID/index.htm This external link] might help. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 09:56, 5 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == &quot;Notes&quot; ==<br /> When did we start changing all the &quot;Trivia&quot; subheaders to &quot;Notes&quot;? ...And why even bother?--[[User:MCRG Again|MCRG Again]] 20:17, 6 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Someone stated that they hated the header &quot;Trivia&quot; as it made the info seem inconsequential when sometimes it was actually useful/relevant, and those of us who thought they had a point started going along with that thought. (Although much to my annoyance I don't recall off-hand who said it or where, other than I think maybe it was on one of the Shattered Glass articles.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 20:34, 6 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::It becomes irritating to me since &quot;Notes&quot; was solely confined to the comics and media articles and &quot;Trivia&quot; was confined to character and toy pages, so now we've got a bunch of random character pages with a &quot;Notes&quot; section (Hot Rod character page, for instance) and others with a &quot;Trivia&quot; section (Hot Rod toy page, for instance) for no particular reason. It looks sloppy and I have no idea whether I should be trying to track down and reset the headings to one or the other or if I'll get warned for it.--[[User:MCRG Again|MCRG Again]] 23:32, 6 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::&quot;Someone&quot; was probably me. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 00:16, 7 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Yeah, you're our resident cruft inquisition!--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 00:18, 7 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::I think some page's contents in the Trivia sections is, um, mixed up with notes (relevant but can't be put in other section) and trivia (a little irrelevant BUT notable) things. So, maybe page like this would still need a trivia section, that is, separate their Trivia section into Trivia and Notes section. Of course, that may involve subjective view of the users who edit the page.--'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 21:19, 7 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::::So are we going to decide on some form of consistent change or just use the two words randomly?--[[User:MCRG Again|MCRG Again]] 02:31, 7 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::I've been changing pages to &quot;Notes&quot; as I work them. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 12:34, 7 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::It'd also be a fairly easy bot request.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 13:38, 7 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::Easy as long as you have a full list of the pages on the wiki. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:39, 7 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::It's not as simple as it might appear - we have [[More than Meets the Eye, Part 1|episode pages]] with Notes sections with Trivia subsections, so the bot would have to take that into account (and a blanket change of #Trivia anchors wouldn't be possible because some will be legitimately pointing to those Trivia sections). --[[User:Abates|abates]] 15:56, 7 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::In the case of the bot request I made, I specifically said to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;==Trivia==&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;==Notes==&lt;/nowiki&gt;. The pages you reference have &lt;nowiki&gt;===Trivia===&lt;/nowiki&gt;, which should be possible to exclude in a search.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 16:54, 7 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Preventing direct image linking ==<br /> <br /> As we know, the wiki costs a fair bit to run and early on in our post Bookworm crash server move, it used more bandwidth than our bosses calculated, so the last thing we need is people going around directly linking images off of our server for forums or even their blogs or whatever (The [[Mountain Dew Robot]]s logo was one of our most popular articles... because some idiot linked the image to his website). Is there any way for us to prevent this? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 11:54, 9 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Yes and no.<br /> :Yes in the sense that it's pretty easy to create an .htaccess file that redirects hotlinks in some way.<br /> :No in the sense that it might break the GoBoxes, if there isn't some way to make it so that the rewrite rules allow just the GoBox images to be hotlinked. Hrm. Although I think the GoBoxes are all PNGs, and we have very few PNGs as normal images, so it might not be ''that'' big a workaround problem. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:40, 9 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Well, all the gobox images are in their own folder anyway, so it's simple enough to exclude them. This is probably a REALLY good idea; somebody give me a suitable (and tiny) replacement image and I'll try to make it so. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 08:45, 11 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Depends on what you had in mind. You could either go the route of just making a one pixel GIF (i.e. smallest image possible), or maybe use our logo with &quot;no hotlinking permitted&quot; written on it. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 09:01, 11 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Goatse. Or the nearest TF equivalent of &quot;ridiculous shock image.&quot; [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 10:00, 11 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Anything from Kiss Players, then. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:09, 11 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::...can we still let me inline images on my blog? Can we make exceptions? Because sometimes I do that, because it's technically me paying for the bandwidth anyway. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:17, 11 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Whitelisting domains is easy. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 10:36, 11 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::::::I'm not extremely savvy with that kind of stuff (most of my knowledge coming from archived talkpages on this wiki), so I have no idea whether it's possible.<br /> :::::::What ''is'' a goatse, anyway? --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:24, 11 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::You don't want to know if you don't already. Trust me. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 10:36, 11 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::Sorry I asked.<br /> :::::::::*remembers the vandal that came in and messed with some talk pages* --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 10:39, 11 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::::''&quot;Or the nearest TF equivalent&quot;'' - Something like [[:Image:Tftm1986e.jpg|this]], you mean? - [[User:Magnus Maximus|Magnus Maximus]] 10:50, 11 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Something more like [[:Image:LegionRape1.jpg|this]] would be &quot;the nearest TF equivalent&quot;, surely. [Or, potentially even more disturbing, [[:Image:AtariScream.jpg|this]].] - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 12:07, 11 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Even Kiss Players is only about a 3 on the shock meter compared to Goatse. An image of Pat Lee might be appropriate... I suggest sticking to something small anyway, otherwise the bandwidth problem is still there. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 15:41, 11 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::How about [[:Image:Siestacron.gif|this]] with something like &quot;You have found The Void.&quot; -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 15:52, 11 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::I vote for Pat Lee. That's awesome. BANDWIDTH SUPERSTAR! [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 18:06, 11 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> Well, the GoBoxes are fairly bandwidth-light, right? What if we did a variation on them, with the leeched image replaced with a notice that the image was leeched, and encouraging them to go to TFWiki.net to learn about Transformers?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 15:57, 11 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I stand by my Kiss Players suggestion. That or the image of dead Prime from TFTM with a tagline at the bottom saying &quot;This image is dead due to hotlinking.&quot; --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 01:37, 12 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Rosicrucian has the right idea. We make it work for us, rather than just 'punish' the people doing it. We don't try to shock or dismay, just state that hotlinking is bad (m'kay?) and that tfwiki.net is the place to learn about Transformers. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 11:44, 17 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :FFN brought up an important issue! (FFN also totally forgot about this immediately after posting the original question and only just read this discussion.) And yeah, I totally forgot about the Go-Box. Since I'm not on the Allspark, I've never really seen the go box in use, other than Derrik Wyatt's blog. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 01:22, 18 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> [[Image:Quintessa.jpg|thumb|250px]]<br /> ::'''This''' is about the most vindictively confusing thing you could spike someone with, IMO. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 11:47, 19 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::USE IT. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 11:58, 19 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> {{-}}<br /> <br /> == GoBots on this wiki ==<br /> ===Initial kick-off===<br /> This idea is getting some traction over on the Tonka GoBots page, so I thought I'd replicate the discussion here. It's certainly a big enough change that it should get broad exposure. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 11:44, 17 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> A note should be said in the [GoBots] [[Tonka GoBots|article]] about canon. What is canon? I'm guessing it is like G.I. Joe: the whole universe is canon, but only the bits that appear in Transformers fiction is {{SITENAME}}-noteworthy. Or is it like crossovers such as Star Wars: only the bits that appear in Transformers fiction are canon. Or &lt;small&gt;(I don't think so)&lt;/small&gt; does Hasbro's purchase of them retroactively drag everything in, cartoon and all, as a &quot;continuity family&quot;? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 17:07, 6 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Personally, I think that the GoBots should be covered here IN FULL.[[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 00:19, 7 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::It is indeed like G.I. Joe or Death's Head, where the only stories that count for the purposes of our wiki are the ones that include Transformers.--[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:20, 7 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I'm not sure I agree. The Gobots cartoon has effectively been subsumed, in whole, into the Transformers mythos. This is a fundamentally different case than Death's Head, who left the Transformers multiverse explicitly, or G.I. Joe, which has implicitly diverged. Due to the legalities surrounding GoBots, the only licensed future stories set in the Gobots multiverse will be Transformers stories. We could certainly choose to catalog the 65 episodes and one movie of Gobots as effectively another Transformers continuity family, which it basically is. I'm not sure what the downside would be to that, other than it'll take a while for it to be up to the wiki's usual standards. I'd be happy enough to go through and start with character pages and episode guides though. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 23:10, 16 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::And just to throw it out there for reference, [http://counter-x.net/gobots/ Counter-X] is probably our best source for GoBots research on the entire interwebs. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 23:31, 16 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::I, uh, I'm not sure that really fits the TF Wiki's &quot;mission statement.&quot; I mean, this is a Transformers wiki. We shouldn't start making ourselves cover entire other properties just because there was a crossover. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 12:24, 17 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ===Depth of coverage?===<br /> As much as I'd fap to the idea of having full-blown GoBots coverage on this wiki, I'd just like to get straight how ''deep'' we'd go with the coverage. Would we cover just the cartoon? Would we also cover the Robo Machine comics published in the UK? Would we do articles for each character along with complete toy write ups? Just curious. I wouldn't mind slogging through the cartoons myself, or maybe even calling dibs on the Rock Lords movie, but I'd just like to know exactly ''how much'' GoBots we'd be willing to cover.<br /> :Also, would we be able to cover the toys, or just the fiction? -- [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 23:47, 16 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I think that we'd only cover the part of GoBots that are canon for Transformers. That'd be the cartoon, basically. IMO, the toys (as something owned by Bandai) are outside of that purview. Things like Machine-Robo and associated fiction have not been brought into the Transformers canon and pretty much cannot be officially, legally, brought in. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 00:35, 17 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Machine-Robo etc would probably fall under the same classification as Diaclone and Microchange, ie general mention but little detail. I am confused by your statement that &quot;the toys (as something owned by Bandai) are outside of that purview.&quot; Taking that statement at face value the original Jetfire, Roadbuster and Whirl toys shouldn't be here either. [[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 18:35, 17 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Not at all. Those toys were all released as Transformers. Other Takatoku and Bandai toys wouldn't be fair game, and aren't. The reason that the GoBots CARTOON can be on this wiki is that it was effectively bought by Hasbro when they acquired Tonka, and then integrated into the Transformers universe by licensed stories like Withered Hope. There has been no comparable action regarding GoBot toys. They were licensed to Tonka by Bandai. That license has long since expired. Hasbro has no claim on those toys, and there has never been any attempt to integrate the toys into the Transformers multiverse. At least, that's the way I see it. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 19:32, 17 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Okay, now I understand your point. For the other side, it seems to me that the toys are the source for the cartoon; if one is fair game for this wiki so is the other. Since this site is not part of Hasbro, the licensing is irrelevant. That is, while Hasbro can't use the toys; we (as archivists) are free to use them. [[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 20:19, 17 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ===Some initial chime-ins===<br /> <br /> If we can do it up to our usual standards, I'm for it. I just think it's a ''metric assload'' of material to be adding.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 00:00, 17 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Hey, we've all got ''plenty'' of time. What's one more metric assload? --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 00:06, 17 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I welcome the challenge. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 00:35, 17 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I could definitely help out. (Dibs on swooping in and taking care of any spelling or punctuation mistakes.) --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 11:49, 17 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::I'm a little indecisive - the entire point of Withered Hope, etc. was that the GoBots exist OUTSIDE of the TF universe. While a given number of GoBots have since moved in, until further notice, it's unclear how many GoBots actually have integrated into the larger TF milieu. Now, if someone from Hasbro said, even in passing, that the GoBots stories are now considered part of the TF multiverse, I'd be all for it. Maybe it's something to think about for BC or the next Q&amp;A. [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 12:45, 17 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::A while back there was a discussion where it was said that nothing that was once canon can be ''removed'' from canon later on, even by Hasbro. Is the reverse also true, can a block of fiction be retroactively ''added'' to canon that wasn't canon at the time? I'm thinking not really. I'm thinking only the glimpses of the GoBots universe in TF fiction belong. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 13:14, 17 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::They're not really reciprocal arguments. Imagine this scenario: Hasbro kills off G2 and is soured on Transformers. They let their new acquisition, Kenner, start their own brand of Transforming robots, called Beast Wars, and they don't use the Transformers name in conjunction with it at all. No mention of Cybertron. No character named Megatron - call him T-Wrecks. It'd effectively be a completely different toyline and cartoon, not 'canon' for Transformers. The whole first season happens, more or less as we saw but without Starscream or the few mentions of past continuity. It's a big hit, so Hasbro decides to add the Transformers logo to the Beast Wars packaging. Then the second season starts up, and lo and behold, they make a big plot point out of The Ark, and the Predacons being descended from Decepticons. They would have changed the status of the S1 stories from non-canon to canon for Transformers. <br /> ::::::Now imagine that it wasn't until Beast Machines that this transition happened. Different logo, different writers, but a continuity of characters and ideas. It'd STILL retroactively pull all of the Beast Wars into Transformers canon. So, sure, stories can be retroactively made canon. Hell, what about this scenario - [[Alignment]] is republished by IDW, under the Transformers banner. Boom - non-canon becomes canon, just like that. <br /> ::::::It's possible, is all I'm saying. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 13:25, 17 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::It's totally feasible, I'm just not sure it's actually HAPPENED with the GoBots material yet. [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 13:41, 17 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::Yeah, my thought too. I don't really have a problem per se with the idea, it's just that I don't think GoBots ''is'' officially Transformers canon as a whole; just some individual characters that have shown up. Kind of like how various Marvel characters have been shown to be a part of canon, but we don't go and then write up the entire universe they hail from. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:24, 17 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::But... but... when I was a kid GoBots were decidedly ''not'' Transformers. Back in the '80's that was kind of a big deal. Not a logical argument, I know. If Alignment were published as a Transformers story, sure it would be canon. If the GoBots cartoon were published as a Transformers story it would be canon. The Beast Wars example is interesting. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 13:49, 17 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ===*IS* GoBots Canon for Transformers though?===<br /> <br /> Yeah. Honestly, I don't know about this... at least, not ''now''. There's still a lot of TF stuff that needs deeper exploration and suchlike, including Club materials. I'd think a focus on those things before we delve deep into GoBots' non-TF-direct stuff would be in order. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 14:45, 17 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I share this thought. I think if people have enough time to be writing up a bunch of GoBot stuff, surely it's better spent (for now, at least) on writing up the TF stuff we already know we need? --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:24, 17 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::There is no need to have articles here for Defendor, Destroyer, Tank, Fytor, Hans-Cuff, Jeeper Creeper, Wrexx, Pincer, Pumper, Vamp, Creepy, and probably 99.1% of all other GoBot characters and story events. We have the e-Hobby team, Withered Hope, the various Crashers and Cy-Kills and a few other circa-Dreamwave easter eggs, because they actually ''existed'' in some form in the TF multiverse. Trying to add in every other character that never did anything and doesn't matter just because we can would be about as fruitful and necessary as adding in every other G.I.Joe character ever that also never appeared here. That Eskimo Quinn dude could always use another write-up, right? --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 17:51, 17 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Im free, I'll do the GoBots. --[[Special:Contributions/206.253.51.107|206.253.51.107]] 21:14, 17 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Yeah, I'm not sure how the GoBots non-TF backstory is any more canon to TFs than the entirety of GI Joe, or Death's Head's other stories, or Spiderman comics, or X-Men, or the Incredible Hulk, or... -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 22:07, 17 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Leaving the above joking around aside, the difference between GoBots and the other crossovers is that GoBots is tending towards convergence, where as all the other cases listed are tending towards divergence. Gobots has been, de facto, merged into the Transformers line. It started with Transformers names and lines named GoBots. Then GoBots names and likenesses started to show up, again and again. Then toys were made to represent specific GoBots. Stories were published involving GoBots, not just as new Transformers, but as GoBonaughts '''from their cartoon continuity''' entering the realms of Transformers. <br /> ::::This is a fundamentally different situation from the other crossovers. Death's Head started out in Transformers (leaving High Noon Tex aside) but then left for another multiverse. G.I. Joe started out in the same multiverse, really, but has slowly but surely diverged to the point where future crossovers cannot exist as a part of the main lines. The Marvel stuff, again, very briefly started out in the same multiverse (rather, the TF comic briefly started out in the Marvel universe before diverging.) <br /> ::::That's the real underlying reason. GoBots are being absorbed into Transformers, literally (by the acquisition of Tonka) and figuratively (as seen in Withered Hopes.) That GoBots are about a civil war between shapechanging robots (well, cyborgs, but then, Beast Wars were cyborgs too) means that it works very well thematically. That all future official GoBots stories will come from Hasbro or its licensees makes it work on a practical level. It's a finite amount of non-Transformers-branded story to catalog, a mere 65 episodes, 1 movie and some 100 characters of note. If we assume maybe 2 extra characters or devices of interest per episode, that's about 300 articles. With the 10,000 we already have, that's hardly a daunting task. Heck, it even benefits Hasbro. It gives them easier access to the information and trademarks that they've already acquired, and thus lets them better protect their intellectual property.<br /> ::::Basically, that means that we CAN choose to catalog GoBots. The precedent is there in the form of the [[Beastformers]]. That doesn't necessarily mean we SHOULD, but we have the option. I for one would like to exercise that option, but only if enough people think it's a good idea. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 00:52, 18 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> ====Marvel Continutiy side-discussion====<br /> <br /> ::::All of Marvel 616 is totally contained within the IDW G1 continuity! Wolverine sure didn't warp from that reality to his own later on. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:39, 17 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Wolverine appears in three solo titles, four team books, and a spattering of guest appearances every month. If there isn't SOME kind of reality warping that helps him get around, I'd be surprised. --[[User:Xaaron|Xaaron]] 23:24, 17 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::For me, it's like kinda minor continuity within the 616 reality, since there are too many contradictory. --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 23:48, 17 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ====Who owns what Vis-à-vis rights ====<br /> <br /> How much of GoBots Hasbro owns, I thought, was subject to debate. Heck, Sipher and Trent go out of their way to not mention anybody in Withered Hope that either didn't have a Hasbro-owned name or wasn't based on a Transformers figure. That's why we have &quot;Doctor B&quot; instead of Doctor Braxus, why they name Leader One and not Cykill, and why they describe Turbo but do not name him. This indicates that the GoBots cartoon, as a whole, is not something that the &quot;Withered Hope&quot; story itself declares is open to us. <br /> Hasbro owns Tonka... but does that really mean they now own the CotGB cartoon? They may just own some trademarks and some likenesses. That whole situation is kind of an intellectual property clusterfuck. Bandai owns the toys, Hanna Barbara may still retain rights to portions of the show, and Hasbro probably owns what little remains. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:25, 18 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :That's a really good point. I got the impression from the IDW editors that it's all on the table, but then it hasn't come up much in my books (yet) so that hasn't been put to the test. Sipher, could you shed some light on the process? Did you restrict your use of terms because of a Hasbro missive, or was that you being proactively cautious? --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 03:46, 18 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Legally it could be an abandoned copyright. Transformers has spent the last several years walking along the train tracks to go poke it with a stick in increasingly invasive ways... and it (or whoever owns it) has not reacted as we've had Transformers toys released that ''are'' Go-Bots characters, featured them in increasingly-large roles in Transformers stories, slowly transitioning to full-on (albeit minor) characters instead of cameos, taken measures to lock out their copyrights... and finally openly acknowledging &quot;yes, we consider Go-Bots part of our multiverse, and intend to use them.&quot; It's not even a separate universe-- the rock lords stuff is showing up in the same universe as Cybertron. (In Multiple universes, right?)<br /> ::Whoever owns Go-Bots seems to have just given up. Go-Bots was never popular enough for a DVD set, even during the Maximum Nostalgia period. And with Hasbro owning their trademarks-- not just character names but the '''name of the damn line''' and '''species'''-- it's functionally impossible for them to market Go-Bots as a nostalgia property. When they didn't bring Machine Rescue Robo over to the U.S., the last real hope of a revival or relaunch died. (and most fundamentally... ''He-Man'' and ''Thunercats'' died. If they can't sustain revivals, Go-Bots doesn't stand a chance. The perception that all nostalgia properties are money-mines seems to have finally died out.) They just... what are they going to ever ''do'' with the part they own? Convention-exclusive comics that can't even be called &quot;Go-Bots,&quot; it'd have to be &quot;Guardians vs. Renegades&quot; or &quot;Challenge of the Guard-Bots&quot;?<br /> ::A fine distinction... TF does '''not''' own the Go-Bots fiction-- that's {{c}} whoever owns it separately from the property. (This might be why [[Dead End (Armada)]] couldn't be called &quot;Gobotron,&quot; Hasbro owns Go-Bots which is enough to prevent Tonka from using &quot;Gobotron&quot; as a replacement name, but AFAIK the name itself comes from the fiction and wasn't a trademark Hasbro acquired-- it's owned by Warner Bros., and a handful of other fiction-producers who did books and records.)<br /> ::In theory all the Go-Bots we're getting is a new universe that may ''resemble'' some past incarnation, but is actually based on the cardback bios... or something. (Which I don't ''think'' we actually have the rights to either... or maybe as part of the packaging they ''were'' part of the rights Kenner owned-- I dunno.)<br /> ::(Someone who knows more than I do about Go-Bots could probably figure out better than I who owns what part of the brand, which has been sawed up and redistributed like one of Dexter Morgan's victims.)<br /> ::'''Critical point:''' The 'abandoned copyright' thing I said above? It's a ''theoretical'' classification. No one ''relies'' on that, ever. It's even ''worse'' than Fair use. It is ''incredibly hard'' to abandon a copyright simply through neglect-- it basically requires an explicit declaration by all owners that they choose to do so, so all of the above theoretical musings are just that-- legal theory, and the law operates differently in a vacuum than it does in the real world.<br /> ::This would make a good question to ask in our Hasbro Q&amp;A. Not who owns Go-Bots... they won't answer that because it's too legally fraught. Ask a simple question like &quot;we know you got the trademarks via Kenner... does that include the cardback bios?&quot; (Because I'd like to be able to fill out the [[Narliphant]] page using its go-bots bio.)<br /> ::'''Hypothetical aside'''-- remember the &quot;Duck Dodgers meets the Green Lantern Corps&quot; episode a few years ago? I'm not '''entirely''' sure, but I ''think'' WB could have had him meet the Go-Bots. Drop him into the full-on Hanna Barbera cartoon, using the names under a grandfather clause like Captain Marvel. ...they just have no '''reason''' to-- the trademarks effectively lock out their ability to create a new cartoon, sell toys, etc etc etc. I'm just pointing out how screwed up the rights are. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:06, 19 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Interesting musings. The missing piece, though, is what kind of agreements Tonka structured with Hanna-Barbara, which have since passed to Hasbro and Warner Brothers, respectively. It's well known that Hasbro was savvy-enough to put legal agreements in place that ensured that new elements introduced in Transformers fiction continued to belong to Hasbro. Hence the manoeuvrings of Marvel with characters like Circuit Breaker and Death's Head. I don't know how Tonka structured their agreements, but that'll have a huge impact on where the rights stand now. I'm not sure, thought, that the failure to use 'Gobotron' for Dead-End had anything to do with legal wrangling.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 20:38, 19 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::[[Image:Gobots copyright.png]]<br /> ::::Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here, I'm just rather interested in the whole situation. I went and dug up the posted copyright notice for GoBots. Note that the actual episodes ARE indeed copyright Hanna-Barbera. On the other hand, GoBot names, characters and property is definitely copyright Tonka corp. So, the episodes themselves may not be kosher. The characters, and especially the character names, should be fair game.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 02:36, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::If we do come to the conclusion that the GoBots cartoon is ''fair game'' for us, I think we should go ahead and do it. As to why someone would &quot;waste their time&quot; on GoBots stuff when they have regular TF stuff they could write about, well, a few reasons. First, they might have access to the GoBots episodes but not a lot of TF stuff. Second, they might decide a lot of people would be willing to write TF, but GoBots, not so many. Third, they might be more a fan of GoBots and use this as an &quot;adoptive wiki&quot; for the show instead of starting a brand new one just for the GoBots. [[User:Thanos6|Thanos6]] 03:40, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::::Ok, so by that image Jim has established that GoBot names and most importantly '''characters''' are definately Hasbro's and the Toon epsisodes themselves are pretty certainly not. It seems the logical thing to do then would be to include GoBot characters in this wiki when they appear in TF material. Cover the characters personality and personal backstory in their main bio paragraphs at the top of of the page, as that IS their character. But leave the &quot;Fiction&quot; section for things that happen in TF stories or are atleast referenced there. That fits the way the material is owned AND the interests of the wiki. --[[Special:Contributions/76.28.72.27|76.28.72.27]] 08:20, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Anonymous McBunchanumbers pretty much sums up how I feel about it. The GoBot characters and the GoBots property are Hasbro's now, but the cartoon isn't (and I wonder about the other ancillary stuff - there was a GoBots Magazine that I remember seeing as a kid, it was done by the same people who did the official He-Man Magazine, and that's without getting into the Machine Men stuff). Cover what Hasbro owns and has acknowledged owning, leave out what isn't available. [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 08:59, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::ETA: The GoBots Magazine was published by a company that now is owned by Time Warner. So it looks like most, if not all, of the ancillary GoBots media is owned by TW. [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 10:02, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::I think the problem hinges on what we mean by official. Do we mean &quot;owned by Hasbro/Tomy&quot; or just &quot;produced under license from Hasbro/Tomy&quot;. For TFs those are basically the same thing, for GBs they are two different things. The first would exclude all the toys and media from the classic GoBots, leaving only those appearances under the TFs banner. The second definition would include the toys and media as they were produced under license from Tonka or by Tonka under license from Bandai. [[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 10:27, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::Not exactly the same thing - while Hasbro always had the ability to make any derivative work they pleased from the G1 cartoon (hence the Marvel comic quickly adopting the cartoon models, and the various toys along the way - compare to He-Man, where Mattel can't touch any of the Filmation cartoon designs), they only acquired the cartoon itself in the past couple of years. I don't think they even own the actual BW, BM, RID and TFA ''cartoons'' now, and they certainly don't own the 2007 and 2009 movies. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 19:42, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::::::::The Tick is a better example. There's the &quot;base license,&quot; which includes all the character, setup and the story of the original 12 issues.<br /> ::::::::::This was the basis for the cartoon.<br /> ::::::::::When FOX went to make the live-action Tick, they licensed the base-license again-- the character, setup and original 12 issues-- and discoverered they did NOT have the rights to the characters that only appeared in the cartoon.<br /> ::::::::::This is like that, except that the &quot;base license&quot; is much smaller-- the characters, names, likenesses and (presumably) their cardback bios. (Possibly also a series bible.) No fiction at all.<br /> ::::::::::And that's assuming that Hasbro even owns all of that... I thought it was just the Trademarks, but the increased willingness to reference Go-Bots material in recent years, beyond the &quot;nudge-nudge, wink-wink&quot; level would seem to indicate that Hasbro believes they have a right to the characters, not just the trademarks. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 11:20, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::What Derik said, Khajidha. Basically, this wiki covers things officially Transformers. That includes things owned by Hasbro and things made under license from Hasbro. There is no transitive property for things now owned by Hasbro but made under license from the previous owner. Though, Derik, I'll point out that we don't actually KNOW the Ts &amp; Cs of the GoBots license. It's possible that Tonka had even more draconian license terms than Hasbro. The characters, names and property is just about the most conservative case possible. Which, as 'sharecroppers' on Hasbro's farm, is probably the safest position for us to take, barring new information.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 11:42, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ====The G.I. Joe Counter-Example====<br /> <br /> The thing is, G.I. Joe is also owned by Hasbro. What makes GoBots different from Joe? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:37, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :See my above argument starting with &quot;Leaving the above joking around aside.&quot; --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 11:42, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :In the future any GoBots appearances are likely to be under a TF banner. They are not likely to carry their own franchise again. GIJoe is likely to continue making many appearances apart from TFs. TF/Joe stories are going to be rare, TF/GB stories are going to be the norm. [[User:Khajidha|Khajidha]] 10:48, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ====Canon or not-canon====<br /> <br /> So that just means Hasbro owns the characters, names, etc. like they own G.I. Joe. The way I see it, that says nothing of the TF canonicity of those things. TF canon is TF fiction. The characters, names, etc. are not TF fiction. As the characters are used in TF fiction, they get into canon. What we need is a TF profile book with all of them in there. It shouldn't really matter to us who owns what. We cover Spider-Man's comic appearance and Roadbuster's toy because they were in TF fiction. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 11:35, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Hasbro ownership lays the foundation for POSSIBLE inclusion. It was further stories that pulled the GoBots multiverse into the Transformers multiverse.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 11:42, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Possible inclusion does not equal actual inclusion - let's say Hasbro made a TF of one of the Air Raiders vehicles - would that warrant adding the Air Raiders as a concept to the Wiki? Does the Allspark Almanac mentioning the existence of the Darkling Lords of Prysmos require us to do a full entry on the Visionaries universe? Right now, we limit our coverage of &quot;Darkling Lords of Prysmos&quot; to &quot;There are these dudes called the Darkling Lords and they live somewhere called Prysmos.&quot; Even though we all know WHO they actually are and WHY they matter, it's not immediately relevant to TF fiction. If Leoric or whoever were to show up in a future TF story, we'd do a page for him, but not necessarily for Merklynn or any of the other Visionaries characters, unless they appear in the story too. [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 12:22, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Agreed, 100%. However, for reasons sketched out above, I feel that criteria HAS been hit for GoBots. A mere throw-away reference is one thing. A crossover is more, but still not enough. A years-long pattern of name usage, toy creation and eventually official stories that specifically pull the existing GoBots fictional universe into the Transformers multiverse is something else.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 18:47, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Eh. Even if that's true, I still kind of think it's a waste of time. Write up whatever GoBot characters/items and referenced stories show up in TF fiction, and that's it. I really don't see why we need any more than that, as that's all that is required to be informed about ''Transformers'' fiction, and that's ultimately what we're here for. A full-on GoBot wiki is a nice idea, but... really not our purview. Maybe if folks wanted to start a sister wiki instead? *shrug* --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:58, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Damnit, Jeysie, way to reply while I was replying! Withered Hope brings the GoBots into the TF canon, but it does so by explicitly saying they exist ''outside'' that canon - they're unknown to the Transtechs (whose entire POINT is that they know everything), etc. As it stands, I think the current setup is an adequate compromise. We cover the GoBots characters/concepts that have appeared in TF fiction, but the rest are beyond our purview until such a point as something happens to integrate the two franchises (which I figure will happen, eventually (current most likely scenario in my mind: Someone at IDW introduces GoBotron, full of GoBots, and then promptly blows it up/has Unicron eat it/some other puerile &quot;joke.&quot; Second most likely: We finally get a sequel to &quot;Withered Hope&quot; that somehow merges the realities - or retcons that there IS a variant TF universe where the GB stuff happened, we've just never seen it until now.) Or eventually Hasbro just does something akin to the Matt Trakker figure from the Joe line, where it's mentioned in passing that &quot;Oh yeah, MASK was part of the Joe universe all along, we're just now connecting the dots.&quot; At that point, I'd be totally cool with it. [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 19:02, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::There's a certain driving frustration behind this (one which I share,) the Go-Bots aren't ever gonna get a proper wiki, and the cartoon will never be cataloged unless it's done here.<br /> ::::...yet you could say the same of G.I. Joe, and no one's suggesting we go back and start adding every G.I. Joe comic, cartoon, etc.<br /> ::::The question unique to GoBots is the possibility that they have been, essentially, &quot;folded into&quot; the Transformers property to a degree greater than Inhumanoids (a dead property which TF references, but which remains separate.) But we don't know that that's happened, that it legally ''can'' happen, and what part(s) of GoBots TF Hasbro does own.<br /> ::::And even if we knew that... it does ''not'' automatically follow that we'd treat it as part of the TF Franchise for documentary purposes. Or that we wouldn't. There'd have to be a discussion about it.<br /> ::::The TF Multiverse (Which you could really call the Hasbro Brands Multiverse, incorporating TF, Joe, Jem, Visionaries etc...) is the 5th largest fictional shared-universe every created. &lt;small&gt;(And it keeps gobbling up other franchises-- G.I. Joe has annexed MASK and Action Man in recent years.)&lt;/small&gt; There has to be a sane limit on how far outside the Transformers franchise you 'follow' information... otherwise we end up documenting C.O.P.S. episodes. And of the 4 fictional multiverses larger than TF... TF has crossed over with 2 of them! (Marvel and Star Wars.) And Marvel has crossed over with the other two. (DC and Star Trek.)<br /> ::::So... yeah. Knowing our limits is important. (I'm not even opposed to documenting Go-Bots... they're certainly closer to TF than anything else... but I'd want to have a serious discussion of the implications first.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:10, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ====Marvelverse side-discussion redux====<br /> <br /> Hell, given that Marvel ''published'' a SW comic for ten years or so, you could argue that Marvel and SW are part of the SAME multiverse. [[User:Thanos6|Thanos6]] 19:20, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Not even all Marvel's wholly-owned stories are in the same multiverse (I'm serious - Marvel have multiple multiverses. Thank you Mark Greunwald) - the New Universe in particular is explicitly in a separate multiverse which works by slightly different laws. The &quot;big&quot; Marvel/DC stories (Marvel vs. DC, Amalgam and JLA/Avengers) worked on a similar principle, although some of the smaller (Spider-Man/Batman, etc - along with Image crossovers like Spider-Man/Badrock. Again not joking on that one) crossovers just played the &quot;imagine they lived in the same universe&quot; game. [New Avengers/Transformers was an example of the latter].<br /> :Marvel's most significant overlap on that front is actually with ''Doctor Who'' - besides Death's Head, who met the Seventh Doctor at least three times, there's been several references to characters meeting The Doctor, and a Doctor Who Magazine (published by Marvel UK at the time) comic story which included a multiverse-spanning splash page included the &quot;Spider-Man recognises the Burglar&quot; panel from ''Amazing Fantasy'' #15. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 19:42, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::IIRC, one of the Access minis clarified that sometimes universes (even between multiverses) simply collide and temporarily overlap, or a character crosses from one to another. (Crossover, present-overlap, full-history-overlap, amalgamation.) The first 3 just... ''happen'', naturally, and usually sort themselves out, though it's Access's job to help unsnarl them. (It's a bit like icebergs colliding. In a low-speed collision, there's some mashing-effect on the border, but they'll separate themselves out eventually... more or less.)<br /> ::And in fairness to Grunewald... his multiple-multiverses thing seems more like a recognition of the fact &quot;it's harder to cross from some realities than others.&quot; Earth 616 does not &quot;border&quot; the DCU in the same way it borders Earth-712 (Squadron Supreme's Earth.) In both Earth-616 and 712, there are Skrulls, a Sorcerer Supreme etc etc etc... the larger metaphysical &quot;structure&quot; of the universe is the same, regardless of the surface expression. But in the DCU (and the New Universe) they are fundamentally different.<br /> ::The reality which has emerged is that while a Multiverse may have a certain fixed scope (1,000,000+ Earths in the Marvel Multiverse, 52 in the DC, 15,000,000,000,000,000 in the TF Multiverse) a universe can belong to more than 1 multiverse at a time-- like sitting in the overlap area of a venn diagram. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:06, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ====Multiverse side-discussion====<br /> <br /> Buuuuut then we get into multiverse vs. omniverse, which I ''think'' we agreed some time back to avoid for the sanity of the wiki.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 20:43, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :DC and Marvel both lack an Axiom Nexus for a reason. They desperately want to avoid dealing with this.<br /> :No sane Multiverse has an Axiom Nexus. Hub realities like this are almost ''always'' confined to micro-fiction dealing with the Omniverse... because in a large functioning multiverse, they create incredible long-term headaches.<br /> :I '''have''' to believe there's a sticky-note in Marvel's Editor-in-chief's office saying &quot;Don't let anyone destroy the TVA,&quot; because it's their ''only'' multiversal singularity, and they've (somehow) managed to avoid screwing it up-- despite employing writers and editors that don't understand their own Multiverse. '''Example:''' The supervillain behind ''Avengers: Disasembled'' was Steve Rogers. Yes, even on Earth-616, it's just that no one ever figured it out here. ''Oopsie!'' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:11, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Derik, I gotta ask, you being you, how did you arrive at 15 quadrillion universes for Transformers? The highest number we saw was in the DW Armada comic at about 76 million. Even given that they found Optimus in a random universe, the expectation would be that they'd have to search about half of the realities to find him, which puts the figure at around 152 million. Granted, that's not a hard and fast figure, but with numbers that large (and the assumption that each reality was as likely as the next to contain their universe's Optimus Prime), it's likely to be close.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 21:03, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::{{quote|Do you know that there are more than fifteen quadrillion concurrent universes? It's true!|[[Bug Bite (G1)|Bug Bite]], &quot;[[Games of Deception]]&quot;}}<br /> :::I arrived at it by remember a direct and explicit quite by someone who's actually a traveler from outside the Transformers multiverse, and thus in an even better position to know the length and breadth of it than the poor Transtechs, who think there are only 75 million, and are doubtless in for a Rude Surprise someday.<br /> :::I suppose arguably you ''could'' say the Hasbro Brand Megaverse is 15Q, and the TF Multiverse is 75M... but that would require making a delineation between multiverse and megaverse that, while fairly clear in regard to other fictions and whose structures TF mirrors, is not explicitly laid out in TF fiction itself. (A Multiverse is defined by a touchstone that exists in all realities. A M'Kran Crystal, an 11th-dimensional snowflake, a &quot;Cybertron, stable axis of the Multiverse...&quot;)<br /> :::And of course, one is never entirely sure... was Bug Bite aware of the existence of negative-polarity universes?<br /> :::(I tend to think that the Transtechs are simply vastly underestimating the size of the multiverse-- Bug Bite seemed to have a fair idea how the TF Multiverse worked, and there was some in-continuity reason why the Transtechs underestimating things make sense I'm currently blanking on. So assume there are 15Q, possibly 30Q universes with Cybertron in it.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:29, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Ah. I knew there was a reason. Though, at the time I read it, I took his quote to mean that there were 15 quadrillion realities in the Omniverse. One point of contention - the trantechs cataloged about 16 million realities. The 76 million figure listed on the web site comes from backtracking from the Armadaverse. And given that there was an episode of GoBots, &quot;Transfer Point&quot;, where the guardians traveled to a universe where Guardians were evil and Renegades good, I think Bug Bite is probably well aware of negative polarity universes. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 21:39, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Ah, '''thank you''', yes, the Transtechs being aware of fewer realities than demonstrably exist in the Armada comic was the reason I think they've got their heads up their afts.<br /> ::::::(Splitting... this section is far too long to not be sub-divided.) The number discrepancy between the Techs' catalog and the Armada search is not intentional. Frankly, &quot;Worlds Collide&quot; was so fucking forgettable, well, we forgot that bit of it. Had we remembered, the number stated in WH would have been far, far, far higher than Armada's. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 03:01, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::And 15 quadrillion cannot be the number of universes in the Omniverse, because ''by definition'' the Omniverse contains everything ever, and Heinlen wrote about an Omniverse with 10.3 Octillion universes. The 15 quadrillion can be a Megaverse which Bug Bite has mistaken for the whole of the Omniverse, but not the thing itself. (The Heinlen Omniverse model is the largest AFAIK, and it shows up a lot in fringe fiction dabbling with the Omniverse. It pretty much ''has'' to have been used by Marvel or someone Marvel's crossed over with at some point.)<br /> :::::And good point about the negative universe. Bug Bite may have indeed been referring to a Megaverse with his number-- a &quot;local group&quot; in astronomical terms, which means that number would include realities not part of the TF Multiverse. But that really just means we have no idea how big the TF Multiverse ''is''. If 15Q is the containing set, the minimum set is 75M, and the group who's ''supposed to know what's going on'' only thinks there's 16M.<br /> :::::''*shrug*'' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:00, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::15 Quadrillion ''concurrent'' universes doesn't necessarily preclude 10.3 octillion TOTAL universes. Concurrent just means &quot;existing at the same time.&quot; We know that a couple million in the TF multiverse *alone* have come to an end. Of the 10.3 octillion total, how many have ended? How many are yet to come into existence? How many exist for seconds, minutes, moments, and are gone? If Forest is to be believed, the Fallen creates those ''all the fucking time.'' They exist, then they don't, like someone save-scumming a video game. Just the actions of multiversal singularities who exist and act nonlinearly would suggest that there'd be a shitfuckton of these hi-then-die little timestreams. [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 22:24, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Why do we care about what Heinlein says, again? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 15:37, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ===*IS* GoBots Canon for Transformers though, Redux.===<br /> <br /> I think my stance is... we document anything officially branded as Transformers toys or fiction, and what characters/concepts are contained within. So unless the GoBots cartoon (or toys, or whole line in general, or whatever) is ever officially stated as being Transformers fiction specifically, we should stick to only documenting what shows up in Transformers fiction. Otherwise, as previous posts indicate, we could start getting really crazy in what we should be documenting, especially since there's still significant amounts of definitely official TF stuff that needs writing up. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:47, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :lost count:''A years-long pattern of name usage, toy creation and eventually official stories that specifically pull the existing GoBots fictional universe into the Transformers multiverse is something else''<br /> :The thing with &quot;years-long patterns&quot; is that you can never tell when they're over. Looking backwards across 17 years, yeah, there have been an awful lot of GoBots references in TF, and there will probably be more, but the only one of real consequence was Withered Hope and so far that just appears to be a one-off. We always hold off on including material that hasn't come true yet--unconfirmed rumors and stolen toy protos and such--so what is the difference between that and holding off on writing the TFWiki Jeeper Creeper article until after he appears, if he ever actually does?--[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 21:19, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I'm not saying that we should document him because he might appear. My contention is that this pattern, culminating in a story that effectively says that yes, the GoBots universe DOES exist somewhere in the Transformers Multiverse, pulls the GoBots universe retroactively into the Transformers Multiverse. I'm saying it's ALREADY happened. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 21:52, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Yes, but there's still lots of non-TF things that are technically part of the TF universe that we still don't document in full because not all of their bits are official TF fiction or toys. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:58, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::And I'd say that GoBots is sufficiently different from them that they warrant inclusion. I'm having a hard time understanding what the 'cost' of adding in GoBots would be. I don't buy the camel's nose arguments here - if we decide GoBots are close enough and interesting enough to document, it doesn't force us to then add C.O.P.S. The benefits, on the other hand, are multitude. It brings us more pageviews, allows Transformers creators more access to this material and in general enriches the universe. If it costs us a few (hundred) hours of editorial time, is that bad? We may get new editors or more activity out of our existing ones. (Oh, and Thy, I don't think I'd call seven toys (almost eight, but for the rights) no consequence. Games of Deception was a solidly GoBot story as well.) --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 22:13, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::See, this totally ''is'' the &quot;camel's nose&quot; thing you just said it wouldn't be: seven or eight GoBots involved in two or three TF stories is now the rationale for adding at least 90 other characters, 65 episodes, and a feature-length movie that are of no significance whatsoever to the TF mythos. Even if we could magically press a button and have it all appear instantly at no effort--they still just wouldn't belong here. We don't know what &quot;future stories&quot; may ever exist, and longstanding precedent on this wiki has been that we don't base our coverage on future assumptions--even revelations of future facts through unofficial sources when we all know full well it is actually true, and that's certainly not the case here. While it may indeed be cosmically unfair for GoBots to have been so generally forgotten and without a wiki of their own, that really isn't necessarily our problem. I really think it would dilute the spirit of what we've put together here. It is canonically established that Visionaries takes place in the same universe as Animated--and frankly I suspect more people read the book in which that notion appeared than read Withered Hope. I think I can rather confidently predict that any future Visionaries story material would consist of more TF references like that and not an actual freestanding Visionaries revival. Withered Hope says the GoBots stories are being &quot;folded&quot; into TFs, but the Almanac says all the Visionaries stories were already taking place on a normal planet that existed normally in the Animated universe. There is at least as valid a reason to add Abraxas the Sun Imp to this wiki as there is for Zod the Super Gobot.--[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 22:41, 20 October 2009 (EDT) <br /> <br /> :::::The cost kinds of boils down to... <br /> :::::This is a Transformers wiki. So far our purview has been limited to only official Transformers-branded merchandise and fiction, and we're hardly lacking for material to write up within that limitation. I see no reason to &quot;dilute&quot; our focus, or open up a can of worms of people with other pet fave universes connected to TF trying to argue for us writing up those franchises too. <br /> :::::Bringing in editors that are only interested in documenting GoBots (or other non-TF) material doesn't do us any favors, and having our existing editors working on it just takes time away from all of the Transformers-focused articles still left unmade/finished. <br /> :::::My thought: If people really, really want to write up GoBots stuff, just start a sister wiki somewhere. Best of both worlds, IMHO. That way it can really document all of the GoBots stuff (whereas if we forever have only a limited GoBots writeup here, that will either end up discouraging anyone who ever wants to start a more comprehensive wiki, or result in pointless duplication), and we can just do what we do with Star Wars/GI Joe and write up only what's relevant to TF here and provide links to the other wiki. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:28, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::OK. I'm seeing two objections. Stop me if I'm unfairly characterizing them.<br /> :::::::1: Time writing GoBots articles could be spent writing up Transformers articles.<br /> :::::::2: Saying 'yes' to GoBots, which is admittedly a boundary case in terms of scope, means that someone may come along and argue about some other universe.<br /> ::::::For point one, I think Thanos6 had a very good counter-argument. Most non-document Transformers stuff is pretty esoteric at this point. If you're not a paying member of the club, you won't have access to that sort of fiction. ARE there any other large swaths of fiction not covered? Some of our editors, myself included, have more access to GoBots material than Transformers material. I'm hardly alone in this, though I am the apparent champion. Rosicrucian, DrSpengler, BlackOut, and Khajidha have all expressed a willingness. There are some high-caliber editors here. <br /> ::::::For point two, again, I just don't find it compelling. We shouldn't cover material because someone might someday start an argument about something else? Really? I can pretty much guarantee that if we don't do GoBots now we'll have another discussion about it within the next year when more GoBots stuff comes out. (That's not a reason to go forward with it, I'm just pointing out the futility of this argument.) <br /> ::::::The visionaries counter-example is kind of a strawman anyway, Thy. The Almanac states that <br /> :::::::1: There is a place called Prysmos<br /> :::::::2: Some group lives there called the Darkling Lords<br /> :::::::3: Speaking like the Angry Archer might be useful for dealing with them<br /> ::::::You see how that's pretty different from a story set in their cartoon universe, where they use an existing technology to travel to our realm. As well as 7 or 8 toys. And another ten or so appearances throughout multiple continuities. AND another story featuring explicit GoBots characters. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 10:12, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ====GoBots as a Multiversal Entity====<br /> How is this different than the G.I. Joe cartoon being in the same continuity as the TF one? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:04, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I feel like I've answered this. It's different because it's thematically closer to Transformers (civil war between alien robots and all that) AND because we can be about 99% sure that all future GoBots stories will be Transformers stories, whereas we can also be certain that the vast majority of G.I. Joe stories will not be Transformers stories. Also, G.I. Joe is a MUCH larger universe than the GoBots universe. Documenting it would take a lot more work. Maybe if Hasbro stops making new Transformers stories it would be worth it for us to go back and fill out that portion of the Transformers universe, but we haven't come close to hitting that point yet.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 22:13, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::''the only one of real consequence was Withered Hope''<br /> ::Which was a direct sequel to the toy-only fiction of the Go-bot 6-pack bios. Also &quot;Games of Deception.&quot;<br /> ::Also, you're discussing &quot;Go-Bots&quot; like their universe is a multiversal singularity. [[Bug Bite (G1)|It's]] [[Bug Bite (SG)|not.]] With Bug Bites running around, it's probably safe to assume that Fracture actually '''is''' Crasher too. Who knows... maybe all the Cy-Kills are Cy-Kill? The Go-Bot diaspora ''does'' seem to have scattered them across all points of the multiverse.<br /> ::(It's not like Go-bots was '''ever''' 1 universe. They had comics, right? And storybooks, and audio adventures, and a negative universe...) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:16, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::But we already cover all those characters you named, precisely because they had fully-realized appearances in TF fiction. We weren't just assuming them into existence by weight of related characters who had come before.--[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 22:41, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :(de-indenting) The problem is that if you treat Go-bots as ''part'' of the TF Multiverse, it doesn't create the amount of work you're describing. We're not just documenting it's characters, or it's episodes... we're also documenting storybooks, audio adventures, coloring books...<br /> :...plus the need for their own disambiguation, backstory, history... if the Go-Bots cartoon is &quot;really&quot; part of the TF Multiverse, then that means '''its''' description of the negative universe should be valid and binding for Transformers.<br /> :But I don't think the Go-Bots cartoon ''is'' necessarily part of the TF Multiverse. Quite aside from the fact it's owned by someone else... I think it's more likely what we're seeing are &quot;new&quot; Go-Bots universes similar to what's been seen before, but distinct from them. (Similar to how every post-BW G1 story includes Sparks-- because they're new G1 universes that adhere to how the TF Universe works.) So if the Go-Bots negative universe episode says that negative universes are shadow-universes that are 1:1 reflections of positive ones (as in the Xenaverse) that doesn't have to apply for the TF version of the multiverse... because the cartoon is not &quot;canon&quot; in the same way a TF Coloring book is.<br /> :And God '''damn''' it, if we're gonna take our rules for how negative universes work from outside the TF canon, it's gonna be from the goddamn G.I. Joe cartoon, not the goddamn Go-Bots! What are you, a communist? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:34, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I don't think we should pretend that the characters that do appear in TF fiction are blank slates. We could fill in bio type information but then act like the TF story is there first and only fictional appearance. The same might be true of characters that haven't appeared in TF fiction. No matter what, all the GoBot characters are assumed to exist in the TFGoBot continuity (no matter what that continuity looks like), right? Maybe bio-only pages for those guys? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 22:53, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Ultra Magnus seems not to have existed at all in Marvel US continuity. Presuming that all Go-bots exist in any single reality is... presumptuous. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:37, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Actually, for reason above (arrived at in the &quot;Who owns what Vis-à-vis rights&quot; section), I'm with Starfield. I think that this wiki should, at least for the moment, only cover the parts of GoBots that Hasbro owns. That means that, while you're ABSOLUTELY RIGHT about GoBots having its own universe of coloring books and negative universes and whatnot, we could ONLY cover the characters. The fiction sections would have to remain blank, until and unless they show up in licensed Transformers media. (Or, of course, the two multiverses converge more.) This gives us AND our corporate landlord the maximum possible benefit while limiting our scope of work to a mere, I dunno, 90 characters. More than 10% of which have already shown up here. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 10:20, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ===A potential solution===<br /> We were talking about this in WiiGii! (omg hivemind) and while I don't think anyone is opposed to a wiki for GB info, grandfathering it all into THIS wiki seems a bit beyond the stated scope. One suggestion was to do a separate GB wiki, hosted on THIS wiki's servers, as a side project - the GoBots Wiki, presented by TFWiki, if you will. When necessary, they would share information, link back reflexively, share userbase, etc. If the stated event comes to pass where Hasbro or someone says &quot;Yeah, all that GoBot stuff happened somewhere in the TF multiverse&quot; then fuck it, we roll the whole thing back in. Given how unlikely that seems to be as per the conversations above, a dedicated GB wiki run as an official side-project of TFWiki is probably the best outcome I can think of. [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 11:24, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I don't know how much work it'd be to set up and run (less than ours, due to the limited scope, but certainly some work) but I do like the idea on the whole and would definately contribute to such a wiki should it be born. (ZacWilliam, who really needs to log back in one of these days)--[[Special:Contributions/76.28.72.27|76.28.72.27]] 11:31, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I could get behind that as a compromise.--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 11:54, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::If you guys created a separate GoBots wiki, I would gleefully contribute as much as I contribute here. Wouldn't be too hard, either, since a good chunk of the episodes are available online and Counter X has scans of most of the really hard to find comics from the US and the UK. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 13:02, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I'd be for it as well. We'd need an inter-wiki linking schema-- &quot;gobots:&quot; and &quot;transformers:&quot; seem dangerous-- there's gonna be articles called &quot;Transformers: Subtitle&quot;, which makes that... um... potentially fraught. How about &quot;w:gb:&quot; vs. &quot;w:tf:&quot;? That mirrors the interwiki linkign schema used by Wikia to cross-link their sites, and is nicely distinct. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 12:30, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Honestly, I was about to suggest that myself, but I've been highly distracted as of late. Seems like the best solution to me... plus, it's a perfect excuse to haul out the GoBots bin and do extensive photoshoots of those. Of course, the big question... what do we name the band? GBWIKI to keep with TFWIKI's theme? That's where I'm leaning. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 12:38, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Hrm... the toyline was just &quot;GoBots,&quot; but the cartoon was &quot;Challenge of the GoBots&quot;... ''ah!'' But there were GoBot ancillary materials (like storybooks) not branded COTG, but simply &quot;GoBots.&quot;<br /> ::There is no clear delineation that corresponds to the portion of the brand Hasbro may own. Calling it &quot;Challenge...&quot; would implicitly limit it to the cartoon and exclude other things. &quot;GoBots&quot; is probaby what we want to hit. So yeah-- &quot;GBWiki&quot; since the reason we're &quot;TF&quot; instead of &quot;Transformers&quot; is to avoid Hasbro's trademark-- and they '''do''' own the trademark on &quot;GoBots.&quot; -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 12:43, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I could likely whip up a take on the GoBots logo for it when I get home.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 12:49, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::I am particularly thinking: &quot;GOBOTS - MIGHTY ROBOTS, MIGHTY WIKI&quot; as the tagline.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 12:56, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::&quot;Challenge of the GoBoxes!&quot; Naahh, of course not. I just wanted to say it. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 13:07, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::On that note, it wouldn't be hard at all to throw together a version of the Go Boxes using the GB logo's &quot;GO&quot; instead of our usual Prime-trailer-inspired one. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 13:15, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Heheheheheheheheh. -[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 13:12, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Some surely practical suggestions:<br /> ::::*'''Interwiki schema:''' &lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:gb:Crasher]] / [[w:tf:Crasher (G1)]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;<br /> ::::*'''site url:''' http://gb.tfwiki.net (avoiding &quot;Gobots&quot; in the url since it's trademarked)<br /> ::::*'''Example article url:''' http://gb.tfwiki.net/w3/index.php?title=Crasher<br /> ::::*'''.htaccess cleared url:''' http://gb.tfwiki.net/wiki/Crasher<br /> ::::&quot;w3&quot; is arbitrary... sub-domains won't actually overlap the file-structure of the existing wiki. (But I feel like installing multiple wikis on one db-server might require a prefix.) Sub-domain feels like a good idea-- both because it's free, and because it enforces our co-branding. Anyway, I'm throwing those parameters out.<br /> ::::There '''seems''' to be consensus on this, but if we genuinely intend to spin off another wiki, I feel like there should probably be a formal community vote on the matter. You know-- since TFWiki ''isn't'' run by a cabal of #wiggii members?<br /> ::::Say... Measure passage requires 50% of voting editors and 2/3 of voting administrators voting &quot;yea&quot;-- with at least 1/3 of all administrators participating in the vote? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:11, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::How many admins to we have?--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 13:14, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::I count nine. How many are actually active right now is another matter. Also, we need to do this. GoBots won't get a wiki at all otherwise. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 13:37, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Yeah, it'd require at least 3. Which is reasonable, given that TFWiki has some fairly inactive admins. (In a proper 'security council' scenario you'd want 6 of 9 admins participating for any measure to pass. 3 of 9 with at least 2 yea just ensures minimal oversight.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:40, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::Hopefully, we won't need a &quot;security council&quot; anytime soon. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 13:44, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::We don't have a lot of big votes like this one. AFAIK, the move from Wiki and re-licencing have been it.<br /> :::::::::The admin-requirement really only exists to keep a bunch of editors from proposing something silly/crazy on a dead weekend and declaring it passed. (Not that the community would go along with it, but having a bare-minimum administrator rubberstamp requirement heads off potential mischief.) At least, this was the arbitrary requirement I came up with when we passed the relicensing vote, since I'm '''not''' an admin and I was the one proposing it, it seemed important as a means to establish the legitimacy of the vote. (We only got 3 admin voting for that... it was in the middle of convention season and half our people were gone.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:54, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::'''Is''' this what we think we want to do? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:54, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Those links link to wikia. Odd. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 14:00, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Yes, very odd. KILL THEM NOW. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:06, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> On an interwiki schema... why not just &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tfwiki:*]] and [[gbwiki;*]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? It has the advantage of simplicity. - [[User:Mammalian Verisimilitude|Mammalian Verisimilitude]] 13:48, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Yeah, to me this seems the easiest to remember.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 13:55, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::''*shrug*'' Forward-compatability? Site names are fine for everything we link to now, but a future sister-site could overlap existing article names. Frankly, my real motivation is that w:subject: names mean I could type &quot;w:starwars:&quot; instead of constantly misspelling &quot;wookieepedia:&quot; (I always forget the double-e.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:12, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::And yeah, I think &quot;w:name:&quot; is currently set to link to wikia. Hrm. &quot;ss:subject:&quot;? (Sister-site?) &quot;p:subject:&quot;? (partner.)<br /> ::Wikipedia has a buttload of arbitrary prefixes for interwiki linking. A single consistent schema seems better. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:12, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Actually, this would seem to be a good opportunity to kill all the wikia interwiki links (except for the link-exchange deal with Wookieepedia). If a wikia page must be linked to, let it be an external (nofollow) link.<br /> :::And the proposed gbwiki would be a sister/subproject, not a true external wiki like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Wikipedia:*]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (and note the lack of a secondary prefix there). - [[User:Mammalian Verisimilitude|Mammalian Verisimilitude]] 15:04, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Not to be a bummer,I love the idea of a GoBot sister wiki, sounds like a lot of fun creating and reading, but an important point has been raised in the Allspark discussion of this: Can we afford it? Our Wiki apparently dosen't always quite pay for itself ad-wise and is basically kept afloat by Walky. Yes, a GoBot wiki would be smaller (and hopefully cheaper) but it also would likely be less popular a draw for adds. (GBs being much less mainstream than TFs now are). Again, it just seemed like a point that should be raised before we dive into the cool project... --[[User:ZacWilliam|ZacWilliam]] 14:28, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Well, I offered to make a donation in that thread. Walky said that this wiki costs around $160 a month to maintain, with around $130 being covered by the ads, with those numbers fluctuating every month, obviously. A GoBots wiki would be only a fraction of the size of thise wiki, even when 100% completed in every way imaginable. With ads factored in, about how much do you think we'd need a month to cover the remainder? I could throw in $10 to $20 every month or thereabouts, and if a handful of people sporadically felt the urge to donate equal or less, you think we'd be covered or at least took the brunt of the financial burden off of Walky's shoulders?<br /> :If we CAN do a GoBots wiki, it'd be nice if money wasn't what kept us from making it happen. But hey, I understand that that's the way the world goes 'round and all. Just sayin' that if a fraction of us skipped McDonald's once a month and gave that fiver to the wiki, we might be more or less financially secure. --[[User:DrSpengler|DrSpengler]] 15:04, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Of course, we could just run the theoretical Gobots wiki on the same server, with the same ad boxes. Unless somehow we got a MASSIVE spike in traffic from Gobots fans that aren't Transformers fans (which I am somehow not seeing), it would probably work out to be exactly the same. (Not to discourage anyone from helping the wiki financially. You can do that also and it would help regardless. I'm just sayin'.) --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 16:06, 21 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Audio file problems - they don't seem to work ==<br /> I don't think we ever resolved this when Derik brought it up a long time ago, but whatever script we use for audio files doesn't work, at least it doesn't work the way it's supposed to. On Wikia wikis, when you click on a &quot;listen to this audio file&quot;, your browser should activate java, buffer the ogg file and play it. However, on TFWiki, the browser merely tries to download the file, not play it. If you choose to open the file via your browser's download dialogue, the file downloads into your temp files and plays it off the nearest compatible media player, which is a *''remarkably''* roundabout way of doing things. Is there any way we can fix this? (I'm using Firefox 3 and Internet Explorer 6)--[[User:FFN|FFN]] 01:19, 18 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I'm assuming that Wikia must have some embedded audio file player installed or something, which is probably doable via an extension. I have to admit I don't see it as a high priority... having the browser call up a helper file is a normal way of handling such things, plus I like being able to download and save the file.<br /> :Not only that, but we barely have any audio files to worry about... I think the Scene Transition page is the only article I've come across that has an appreciable number of audio files on it. Although now that I think about it, I wonder if creating WAVs of characters' main quotes where possible might be an interesting idea, to give samples of what characters sound like. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 03:09, 18 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Downloading - well, there's the minor issue that the majority of our users will be unable to play .ogg files anyway, for even if codecs are easily had, it's a fairly obscure format. Hell, I never even heard of it until 2005. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:27, 18 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::WinAmp plays OGGs just fine out-of-the-box, among a number of other media players out there, so I don't see an issue. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 03:35, 18 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :In case we want to install an extension to handle this: [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:OggHandler] --[[User:Abates|abates]] 04:50, 18 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Editing Go Boxes? ==<br /> I've utterly failed at finding a guide to editing a Go Box address, so I figured I'd just note that the Go Box for &quot;Tankor (ROTF)&quot; instead links to a blank &quot;Revenge of the Fallen Tankor&quot; page for some reason. {{unsigned|MCRG Again}}<br /> :Fixed. Someone put the destination page down as &quot;Revenge of the Fallen Tankor&quot; in [[Template:Goicons]], thus causing the GoBox to send you to a non-existent page. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 02:51, 19 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == When was the last Database backup? ==<br /> <br /> Just curious. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 12:10, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :That is exactly why we need that &quot;Database last backed-up by: (insert-person-here) on: (insert-date-here).&quot; thing someone suggested a long time ago. That way, we may avoid Bookworm Crash 2.0. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:15, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Of course, one of the major causes of The Bookworm Event was that corrupt or otherwise failed backups were being registered as successful. That backups are regularly checked is just as important as backups being made in the first place, and &quot;(insert-person-here) on: (insert-date-here)&quot; wouldn't prove that. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 12:31, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::At least we know if there ''is'' a backup to check at all. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 13:02, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::By us, manually? I dunno. We pay for automatic backups every week as part of our hosting. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 12:22, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Ah, that last one is slightly more reassuring.<br /> :::I mean-- they're the same automatic backups Bookworm was theoretically making, but IIRC the current host was picked (in part) for having a good reputation for such things. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:32, 20 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::McFly confirmed [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive41#Googlejuice_-_Bad_News_Everyone|a while back]] that the auto backups were working, so hopefully they still are. Good news for when we eventually upgrade the software! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 15:57, 20 October 2009 (EDT)</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki_talk:Community_Portal&diff=375842 2009-10-11T12:45:34Z

<p>Suki Brits: /* Preventing direct image linking */</p> <hr /> <div>__NEWSECTIONLINK__<br /> <br /> This is the place for discussion of topics that affect the entire wiki. Some topics that would ordinarily be here have merited their own pages:<br /> <br /> {{chapters|title=Specific Discussion Subjects|align=left|content=<br /> &lt;div class=&quot;list-header&quot;&gt;'''Moving From Wikia:'''&lt;/div&gt;<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving|Arriving]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving|Leaving]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki:Community Portal/Complaints|Complaints]]<br /> &lt;br/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;list-header&quot;&gt;'''New Ad Policy:'''&lt;/div&gt;<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki:Ads|Ads]]<br /> &lt;br/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;list-header&quot;&gt;'''Bookworm Database-Crash:'''&lt;/div&gt;<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central|Damage Control Central]]<br /> * [[Project:Bookworm Crash]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving2|Leaving Take 2]]<br /> &lt;br/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;list-header&quot;&gt;'''Server Move:'''&lt;/div&gt;<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving2|Arriving Take 2]]<br /> &lt;br/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;list-header&quot;&gt;'''Relicensing:'''&lt;/div&gt;<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Relicensing|Relicensing]]<br /> &lt;br/&gt;&lt;div class=&quot;list-header&quot;&gt;'''Dealing With Vandalism:'''&lt;/div&gt;<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Vandalism|Vandalism]]<br /> }}&lt;br/&gt;<br /> &lt;!--BEGIN ARCHIVE NAV INCLUDE--&gt;<br /> {{:{{FULLPAGENAMEE}}/Archive}}<br /> &lt;!--END ARCHIVE NAV INCLUDE--&gt;<br /> <br /> == Mold reusage list ==<br /> <br /> I've been working on a list that lists the most reused molds. Sorted after Toyline and alphabetical order. Now I would like to know if this would be a useful piece of information or if it's uninteresting for the wiki. Check out the current poor and far from finished version [[User:Dead Metal/DMsscrapheap|here]]. Should I continue working on it or stop and erase it.[[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 13:09, 29 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> :It's almost worth it just for that picture. [[User:LiamK|LiamK]] 09:20, 12 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I think it would be worth it, just have all this info in one place. That and the comedy possibilities. I can see where it could be considered redundant though. --[[User:Tigerpaw28|Tigerpaw28]] 17:33, 20 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Armada: The Air Defense Mini-Con Team, with 10 to 12 different decos (depending on whether you count minor differences between the Hasbro and Takara verisons or not).<br /> ::Energon: One of the combiner limbs. Which one depends on whether you count Hasbro/Takara differences or not (some of the tank limbs in particular are considerably different). Also, do the unreleased Movie Target Scouts count?<br /> ::Cybertron would be Legends of Cybertron Starscream (8 different versions, with notable differences between the initial Hasbro and Takara releases) and Optimus Prime (7 versions, also with notable Hasbro/Takara differences), with larger toys Deluxe Hot Shot (5 or 6 different versions, minor differences between initial Hasbro and Takara releases), Sideways (not sure on Hasbro/Takara differences here, therefore 5 or 6 different versions), Crosswise (some differences between Hasbro and Takara releases, 6 versions), Scout Clocker (notable Hasbro/Takara differences, 6 versions) and Voyager Leobreaker (5 to 7 different versions depending on Hasbro/Takara differences for Ligerjack/Leobreaker and Dark Ligerjack/Nemesis Breaker).<br /> ::Classics winner is Deluxe Starscream (15 different versions, with Hasbro and Takara releases being considerably different in all instances), followed by Voyager Prime (6 or 7 versions depending on whether the unreleased black Takara convention exclusive counts or not).<br /> ::Movie... Deluxe &quot;Concept&quot; Camaro Bumblebee, hands down. There's a running change variant for the Hasbro version (not a Hasbro/Takara difference, the later Hasbro version is identical to the Takara release), depending on whether that counts or not, we're talking about nine or 10 distinct versions here (including ROTF Cannon Bumblebee, who features 2007 Bumblebee's legs). Then there's Voyager Prime (7 definitely different versions, with minor but notable differences between Hasbro ROTF Voyager Prime and Takara's convention exclusive &quot;Optimus Prime Revenge Edition&quot;. There might also be minor differences between the battle damaged Voyager Prime from the Sam's Club exclusive Prime/Starscream/Arcee three-pack and the Asia-only &quot;Autobot Optimus Prime&quot; single pack.)--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 15:13, 13 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Damn, I'm starting to think I was retarded just to think of starting it, but I think I'll continue working on it and once I think it's near complete I'll &quot;publish&quot; it and let it be updated by others that are more in the know. Danke für die hilfe werd mich reinhaun.:D [[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 15:19, 13 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Marvel UK issue pages ==<br /> <br /> I feel that we need to make a change with how we handle Marvel UK comic issues. The UK comics split most of its stories up over multiple issues, and even reprinted some of the split up in a ''different'' way. This has led the story articles to become bloated with non-story info (covers, letter pages, other comics from the same issue, contests, ads) for multiple issues on a single story page. Also, navigating the UK comic is a pain in the ass, as many issues having two stories (one issue has ''three''!), as well as the reprints.<br /> <br /> Here's what I suggest we do:<br /> <br /> * '''Make &quot;hub&quot; pages for the individual issues.''' These pages will cover issue-specific things. Those UK cover scans clogging up every Marvel Transformer story? They go here. As does information from that issue's letter pages, ads, TransFormations, and anything else that isn't a part of the actual stories. Also, there will be a list of what each issue contains, mostly the TOC from the issue itself. Non-Transformers backup strips (Machine Man, Action Force) should need nothing more beyond the name of the series and the title of the story unless more info is given in the cover, letters page, TransFormations, Coming Attractions or the like. The TOC will also have links to our story articles.<br /> <br /> *'''Leave the story articles mostly unchanged''' The UK comic usually treated the stories like serials (think the early Flash Gotdon films or the original Doctor Who series), so splitting them up makes no sense. Aside from moving the issue-specific stuff to the hub pages, the only changes needed will be removing the story navigation box from the UK-original stories, removal of the UK navigation from the stories written for the US comic, and adding any needed &quot;Reprinted in&quot; links, and putting &quot;Originally printed in&quot; links on the stories written for the UK comic.<br /> <br /> Marvel US 33 &amp; 34 (Man of Iron!) and Action Force 24-27 (Ancient Relics!) would be handled in the same way. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 17:40, 1 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :So you're suggesting that ''any'' issue which contained multiple discontinuous stories get a page for the issue, and a page for both stories? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:37, 1 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :: Not exactly. Marvel UK is a special case because these multiple discontinuous stories are broken up over multiple issues. We would still have one page for Time Wars. I'll put together a sample tommorow. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 00:51, 2 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I have a ''very'' rough example at [[User:FortMax/Sandbox]]. The main reason I feel this needs to be done is because not only does the UK comic non only have multiple stories in each issue, these stories get spread out over multiple issues. For example, [[Time Wars]] was printed over seven issues. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 12:04, 2 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::That makes sense... a 'landing page.' I'm tentatively in favor of it... but I'd like to see what others say. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 15:40, 2 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::I think this is a really good idea, because it enables us to show the very different format of the UK comic. Formats, in fact - something I didn't realise till I completed my collection is how ''very'' different the first 30 or so issues are from the rest. More like a robot enthusiast's magazine than a comic, and much more 'British' in feel. Unfortunately I've only got my scanned copies of issues 1-5 to work from at the moment, but I can mock something up to show you what I mean. --[[User:Tribimat|Tribimat]] 06:25, 4 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::I've never been overly happy that a big, &quot;blockbuster-that-changes-everything&quot; story like Target: 2006 or The Legacy of Unicron only gets one issue, whereas, say, the issues leading up to US #75 get a page each. There's examples of serial storytelling and individual-issue focuses (eg, Prime surrendering, or the introduction of the Wreckers) in each. [[User:LiamK|LiamK]] 09:25, 12 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::I've done a fair bit across the UK comics lately and I'd be hugely in favour of breaking T:2006 (especially) into its component issues - just because they weren't individually named they get lumped together in one article which I think does a great disservice to the story. I'd compare it to a six-issue series like Devastation which gets six pages labelled issue 1, issue 2 and so forth, so I don't think articles called Target: 2006 issue 1, Target: 2006 issue 2 etc. would necessarily be beyond the pale. I don't know how far I'd want to take it though - splitting up stories like City of Fear or Legion of the Lost seems a bit pointless, more so The Fall and Rise of the Decepticon Empire which wasn't meant to be split in the first place. --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 15:07, 2 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I'm in favour. I also think that a standard link to the appropriate letters page on transfans.net (similar to the way we do tfu.info for toys) wouldn't go amiss. --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 15:07, 2 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::I'm also in favour. This is the approach I took on Joepedia for the weekly Action Force comics where there are similar problems - see [http://gijoe.wikia.com/wiki/Action_Force_%28weekly%29] for how it works on the individual issues. [[User:Timrollpickering|Timrollpickering]] 07:59, 26 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :If you are taking the navigation off the stories, won't that make it more difficult to click through the UK continuity, from one story to the next one, continuity-wise? Then again, I'm not super familiar with the UK comics, maybe it is so complicated that that feature is basically broken as it is. But if the current story-based nav works I'd like to keep that as well as a issue-to-issue nav. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 10:39, 26 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Need Disambig Help ==<br /> <br /> [[Deathsaurus (Victory)|Deathsaurus]] and [[Landcross (Victory)|Landcross]] need to be moved, but I remember us doing different stuff with the Victory characters, so I didn't know if I should move them to (G1) or (Victory). --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:09, 6 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :[[Transformers Wiki talk:Community_Portal/Archive34#Franchise_identifier_consistency|Relevant]] [[Talk:Star Saber (Victory)#.28G1.29_vs._.28Victory.29|discussions]] suggest &quot;Deathsaurus (Victory)&quot;, etc. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 22:16, 6 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Okie dokie. Thankee! --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:19, 6 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::''*Derik growls*''<br /> ::::...you growled, sir? --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:59, 6 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Derik likes the G1 parenthetical when applicable. Interrobang hates it with a passion. We are going to put them in Thunderdome.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 23:44, 6 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Derik thunderously proclaims that the (G1) parenthetical is a reference to the ''umbrella'' franchise that contains all &quot;Generation 1&quot; franchises. If we truly named characters for franchises, we would have &quot;Optimus Prime (The Transformers).&quot; We're not-- ergo we prefer to use the umbrella franchise for disambig when possible, and that should apply to Victory characters as well! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:01, 7 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Uh, no. More like it's one of those cases where we have to make an exception because the result caused by following the rule would be ridiculously unhelpful. Otherwise we do in fact disambig by franchise. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 00:36, 7 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::I disagree! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:41, 7 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::With which? You disagree that (The Transformers) is unhelpful despite the [[Talk:Generation 1 (franchise)|conversation on the matter]] (to whit: &quot;Because, having 'The Transformers' be the name of a specific franchise and continuity family would be insanely confusing, when technically 'The Transformers' is the also name of the entire general franchise and continuity family that encompasses everything. Having two different concepts named &quot;Generation 1&quot; is already confusing enough without making it ten times worse.&quot;), or you disagree with the fact that we disambiguate by franchise?<br /> :::::::::(The Transformers) is a uselessly ambiguous disambiguation, and it ''is'' a fact that we disambiguate by franchise. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 00:47, 7 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::But... we don't use the &quot;umbrella franchise&quot; for anything else. We don't do it for the UT. We don't do it for Beast Wars (who some would argue falls under G1). We don't do it for the movies. Why only G1? And &quot;Generation 1&quot; is the name of the franchise, as established by numerous product. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 12:33, 7 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::Bah! Humbug! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:45, 7 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::Let's make sure we've got our terminology straight. At the very top level, we have the [[Generation 1 continuity family]], which, NOT being a franchise, is never used for parentheticals. Underneath that, we have the [[Generation 1 (franchise)|G1 franchise]], G2, BW, the 2003 ''Universe'', etc. The G1 franchise is synonymous with &quot;The Transformers&quot;, so Derik's point above about how we don't say &quot;Optimus Prime (The Transformers)&quot; is nonsensical. Every time we say &quot;(G1)&quot;, we ''are'' saying &quot;(The Transformers)&quot;. This franchise could be considered an &quot;umbrella franchise&quot; because it contains all the Japanese franchises like ''Headmasters'', ''Victory'', ''Zone'', etc. So does a ''Victory''-exclusive character get a &quot;(G1)&quot; or a &quot;(Victory)&quot;? Both technically count as franchise-of-origin. The only reason I see to get granular about it is to follow the example of the Japanese BW sub-franchises. For example, it would be perfectly valid if [[Skywarp (BWII)]] were &quot;Skywarp (BW)&quot; instead, but for whatever reason, we've decided those sub-franchises deserve their own parentheticals. I favor consistency, but I can't think of any clear logic that demands one outcome or the other. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 22:19, 7 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::It's the 'for whatever reason' I'm stuck on. I don't think we ever actually ''made'' that decision so much as some contribuitors have simply been pushing that view-- thus the periodic outbreaks of &quot;What? Why the fuck is ''ArticleName'' now at such a retarded location?&quot; followed by block reversions. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:49, 7 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::IIRC, I think that the reasoning was that we ''should'' always be disambiguating by franchise rather than umbrella franchise, so (Victory), (Zone), (BWII) was more correct. Basically, it was a change to make our disambiguating more consistent. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:52, 7 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::I can think of one umbrella franchise we do disambiguate by: the [[Universe (2008 franchise)|2008 ''Universe'']]. With the exception of the &quot;Action Blast&quot; Flash animations, all it does is subsume other franchises, but when a [[Dropshot (Universe)|new]] [[Backstop (Universe)|character]] comes out of it, we use &quot;Universe&quot; as the parenthetical instead of whatever franchise they're from within that. I've [[Talk:Heavy Load (Universe)#Move to &quot;Heavy Load (Classics)&quot;?|argued against this]], but to little avail. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 23:06, 7 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ==Copyright notice for logos==<br /> I've been spending a fair bit of time lately adding to and updating our collection of [[logos]], but it's occurred to me that of all our thin-ice copyright practices, displaying Hasbro's trademarks is pretty damn questionable. So I checked out how Wikipedia deals with it, and I think we can pare down [[Wikipedia:File:Radioshack-logo.svg|their boilerplate]] into something that fits our typical copyright templates. What do you all think? - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 23:16, 7 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Logos are something you put out as a metonymic symbol for yourself. Mangling them or presentignt hem badly is bad... but simply ''presenting'' them should be fine.<br /> :Trademark infringement is an entirely different thing than copyright infringement-- it only occurs if we were trying to use their names/logos to represent ourselves. Creating &quot;Genuine opportunity for confusion&quot; between ourselves and Hasbro. We're not using them that way... we're usign them to represent Hasbro, which is entirely proper.<br /> :(It wouldn't hurt to work up a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{logo}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; template for image credit though, that underlines that this is Hasbro's Trademark, not an image they own copyright on.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:37, 7 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I've done a [[Template:Logo|first draft]]. Feel free to mangle it so that the language is more sound.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 23:51, 7 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == A solution for all this Goldbug/Galvatron/etc. madness ==<br /> <br /> Would it be possible to design a template or other standard that allows for an intro-style paragraph in the ''middle'' of a page? So, rather than Fortress Maximus getting a footnote under his intro paragraph about how his Japanese portrayal is totally different, his Japanese fiction section gets its own introductory writeup, maybe complete with its own main pic, with some kind of standard disclaimer that it applies to this particular fictional section only?<br /> <br /> This allows us to keep characters who are clearly related in a meta-fictional sense on the same page, while allowing us to acknowledge the vast differences in their characterization and/or backstory. Then we have a ''much'' smaller debate about who should or shouldn't get such a subsection, instead of an unwinnable argument about disambiguations with all the associated link and header messiness. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 12:02, 12 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :That is a very good idea, I like it a lot. But how would that work, will we need a software update or something? [[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 12:06, 12 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::&lt;nowiki&gt;=Section title=&lt;/nowiki&gt;<br /> ::The single equal sign header currently isn't used. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 12:10, 12 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::That's because a single equal sign header produces an &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;H1&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, which should only be used once per page per webstandards. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 12:13, 12 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::From a web-standards standpoint, there's no reason ''not'' to use a H2. I the goal is just to have a horizontal line... um... I bet that can be made to happen, I'm just blanking on how. ;)<br /> ::::I'm not opposed to the idea of a 'mini-bio template' (or something) to call out these kind of mini-bios... but I'm also ''wary'' of them, because I fear that they could become a crutch; a &quot;default&quot; approach used whenever there are different portrayals of a character instead of achieving actual consensus.<br /> ::::I '''really''' don't want to discuss this until ''after'' we've come to a conclusion on the Bumblebee/Galvatron thing. With the original argument deadlocked, (and seriously, calling for an up-and down vote so early into the discussion was ''not'' helpful) it's now spilling over and opening 'new fronts' to argue on. Any 'wide ranging' layout change we make will stem ''from'' the resolution of that argument. Attempting to begin such a change now, with the problem unresolved is bad policy, pisses everyone off, and ''could be'' &lt;small&gt;(read: is)&lt;/small&gt; interpreted as a pressure-move by one side seeking to advance its agenda by presenting a fiat-accompli policy revision to strengthen its position. :D -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 12:37, 12 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::We probably should mention [[Blaster (G1)]] in this mess as well...<br /> :::::I'm honestly not sure how to feel about the whole thing. My inclination would be inherent personality/concept. So if you have character incarnations who have different origins but their personality ends up being the same, they go together. If you have character incarnations with similar origins but who otherwise act very different, they don't go together. And if you have character incarnations who act similarly, but most have a certain origin as a key part of their identity and one incarnation lacks that origin, that one incarnation would still be different.<br /> :::::Of course... that's obviously a pretty darn subjective thing to be trying to decide on, and I'm not sure it'd be ideal. I'm just really not sure how else to handle it in terms of a way that ''would'' be objective. Seeing as how once you get past continuity/franchise divides, all we have to go on is how the individual stories handle things, which usually aren't clear-cut. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 12:51, 12 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::::We've got plenty of evidence that Unicron can create Cyclonus and Scourge out of any robot-- the individual going into the transformation has no bearing on the individual that comes out... it's just a 'stock' body/persona Unicron seems to use a lot.<br /> ::::::I suspect that Galvatron is similar. (Though the evidence to support this view is much more circumstantial.) Because the dudes who get turned into Galvatrons tend to be ''alive'' going in (unlike the 'doners' for Cyclonus and Scourge) their personality obviously carries more sway.<br /> ::::::I think that treating Galvatron like ''that'' makes a lot of sense without dis-servicing the material... but I'm not sure we can reach an consensus to do so. Can anyone think of any similar instances of a character with wildly different 'incoming' origins? (Orion Pax doesn't quite cut it. We'd need a separate origin where [[T-Spoon]] was rebuilt into Optimus Prime...) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:05, 12 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Sunbow Dinobots vs Dreamwave Dinobots immediately come to mind. I've been thinking along the lines of your &quot;Unicron's mass-production type&quot; for a while now.... which still leaves both IDW and Henkei Galvs as outliers. But even those two weirdos fulfill basically the same character roles in their respective continuities, and there's no evidence Hearts of Steel Scourge was built by Unicron either and he's still &quot;himself&quot;. Honestly I think they should all stay where they are. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 13:25, 12 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Cartoon Constructicons. Built on Earth? Brainwashed Autobots? Decepticons who've always been around?<br /> :::::::Any rate, I really don't see the point in moving stuff around. People are actually talking about wiki-wide changes to account for maybe that %0.1 of characters that don't fit neat-and-clean into the way things are set up now. As it stands, I'm not exactly sold on the &quot;mini-profile&quot; proposal, I'd have to see an example Sandboxed up before I could get behind such a thing. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 13:44, 12 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::Leave it as is. Galvatron is still more or less the same guy - he's a crazy badass killer guy who wants to betray his masters. Goldbug is a fucking nonentity. (On the other hand, is there ANYTHING to suggest that Spotlight: Metroplex doesn't take place in the future and that Bumblebee became Goldbug at some point we haven't encountered yet?) [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 19:34, 12 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::There's a note on the inside cover that says it takes place immediately before AHM#1.<br /> :::::::::As for the subsection-intro idea, I like it a lot - it's an idea I've had since I first started reading the wiki, and it applies to WAY more than the &quot;0.1%&quot; of characters that have had actual debates around them. Save the main intro for universally-applicable info, and elaborate on the conflicting details in the subsection-intros. The big issue I see is overall readability - as Siph says, it'll need some sandbox-testing to see if it would actually ''work'' in a practical sense. It could easily make our articles even ''harder'' to parse than they are now. But there's no way to know without trying.<br /> :::::::::- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 19:50, 12 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::Considering that [[Blaster (G1)|Blaster]]'s page is already set up like that... really, go look at it—there's ''three'' separate intros already, one at the beginning of the cartoon section, one at the beginning of the Marvel comic section, and one at the beginning of the IDW comic section.<br /> ::::::::::We'd maybe have one normal Fiction section with Dreamwave and TF/GI Joe, and then three different H2s with &quot;Cartoon continuity Blaster&quot;, &quot;Marvel Continuity Blaster&quot;, and &quot;IDW continuity Blaster&quot; each with their own separate H3 Fiction section. If that makes sense? --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 20:22, 12 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::::::::Speaking solely in terms of 'the insertion of more time fixing the problem...' Goldbug's 1987 tech-spec says that he possesses the ''mind'' of Bumblebee. ('tis a very odd phrasing.) It also notes that he has become &lt;tt&gt;&quot;More serious, assertive, mature than he was. Realizes what others think of him isn't nearly as important as what he thinks of himself.&quot;&lt;/tt&gt;<br /> :::::::::Now, I happen to think that &quot;Spotlight: Metroplex&quot; presented Goldbug as joking, passive, naive and deferring to what others think instead of trussing his own judgment. (Caveat: These are subjective judgements, YMMV.) Which would make &quot;Spotlight: Metroplex&quot; Goldbug is simply Goldbug ''prior'' to the state his tech-spec describes. He will ''grow into'' being the more assertive etc etc etc individual the tech-spec describes. It's entirely ''possible'' that at some point in the future Goldbug's mind will be merged with G1 Bumblebee... at which point the character would no longer be in conflict with the tech-spec (but still a distinct character.)<br /> :::::::::Let me stress; I don't think that this is '''likely'''. But I'm reluctant to make sweeping changes aimed at &quot;addressing this completely irresolvable situation&quot; when the situation is (at least potentially) resolvable. And in the scenario above, even if the discontinuity with the tech-spec were ''completely'' resolved... we'd '''still''' need a separate article for the character; addressing who he was prior to the merge— just like the [[:Image:Generic decepticons marvel uk 243.jpg|hapless trooper]] Straxus rebuilt into a clone of Megatron is a distinct character.<br /> :::::::::'''Reiterating:''' I am not saying this is the case, I do not think it should go on his page, etc. I am merely demonstrating that it's ''possible'' to have a scenario where '''even if the problems with the tech-spec were resolved''' this Goldbug would '''still''' need a separate article. '''With that in mind:''' can we ''back away'' from the &lt;tt&gt;&quot;conflict with tech-spec = new character&quot;&lt;/tt&gt; argument (because I don't think either side is actually proposing that [[Beast Changer]] be split into a separate article from [[Noble]]) and start looking at at Goldbug's article for what it ''is''; an odd and '''fairly rare''' circumstance which lacks a clear precedent in the form terms of how we treat other articles &lt;small&gt;(Since Galvatron's article has that's been regularly argued about since it was set up... to a conclusion that &quot;this sucks, but no one can agree about how to do it better&quot; I don't think it qualifies as &quot;a clear precedent.&quot;)&lt;/small&gt; for which open non-acrimonious discussion is required to determine the best treatment.<br /> :::::::::Now, '''*I*''' see no urgent need to make a decision this second. '''I propose''' a 4 day cooling-off period where all parties desist working on the article or pushing their points on talk pages so that everyone can calm down and it can be re-visited with fresh eyes on Monday. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:21, 13 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::We should just plainly present the character as the fiction presents him while taking as little stances on anything as possible. The only way to do that, I think, is to have all Goldbug-related information on the &quot;Goldbug (G1)&quot; page, and just give the information, perhaps linking to Bumblebee in the appropriate fiction sections to prevent duplicate information. Having separate Goldbug pages gets the whole process off on the wrong foot, drawing subtle conclusions before any text is actually written. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 00:47, 13 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::But that's a ''terrible'' way to present (for example) the Marvel comic, where he goes back and forth between being Bumblebee and Goldbug. To say ''nothing'' of Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:27, 13 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::::You know, the more I think of it, the less certain I become about what works the best for the wiki. Think of Optimus Prime (G1). We're mostly pretty happy with his article, right? But then, sometimes he was rebuilt from Optronix, sometimes Orion Pax. To me, that seems like a pretty analogous situation to the whole Goldbug / Bumblebee situation. So, whatever we decide for Goldbug may apply to the cartoon vs dreamwave Optimus Prime. Or not, just kinda thinking out loud. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 01:54, 13 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::::The Keepers Trilogy established that Orion was a friendly nickname for the 'bot known as Optronix.<br /> :::::::::::::Try to keep up with the retcons man! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:25, 13 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::::::Personally, I think Jackpot (I think it was Jackpot, anyway) sandboxed up the best solution I've seen: make a Goldbug (G1) page, with the Marvel and Sunbow sections consisting entirely of &quot;See Bumblebee (G1)&quot; (and maybe a sentence or two on how he became Goldbug). There's no back and forth from Bumblebee to Goldbug for the continuities where they're one and the same, it eliminates the potential mess that would appear if another G1 continuity decided to make a Goldbug that's not Bumblebee, and it pretty neatly resolves the debate over how the intro paragraph should be written. I'm also going to take this opportunity to point out that the intro paragraph for [[Scorponok (G1)|Scorponok]] says something to the effect of, &quot;this guy is totally different in every continuity.&quot; -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 04:40, 13 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::::::Wait for the smoke to clear. We'll decide to do that anyway. The non-Bumblebee Goldbug clearly has his own independent existence, just like [[Hapless trooper]] does, and (IDW) is a terrible diambig.<br /> :::::::::::::::Also, I'd like to take this opportunity to be a crotchety old man and point out that I think people need to '''chill'''. IDW introduced a ''bizarre'' retcon involving Bumblebee the same month they announced a Bumblebee series. Until I'm given reason to think differently, I have to believe who thing is too retarded ''not'' to be related. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:59, 13 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::::::::So, why is (IDW) a terrible disambig, Derik? Because some other publisher may use a non-Bumblebee Goldbug later? How is that particularly different from a character from one franchise later turning up in another? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 16:48, 14 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::::::::Because in this case it's not a character from another franchise. It would be another version of the same character from the same franchise with the same uncommon interpretation. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 18:11, 14 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == New Featured Characters Template ==<br /> OK, what's with the new featured characters template? --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 05:38, 14 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Changes were proposed over at [[Template_talk:Featuredcharacters#Makeover]], sandboxed, revised, various users participated etc. It's been going on for a few days. A 'mature' version of the template evolved, and we announced it would go live; giving users 36 hours to object if theyw anted to. No one did.<br /> :(This is typical. Most of the time only a very tiny audience participates in talk about template revisions until they're rolled out and catch the rest of the users off-guard.)<br /> :It was expected there would be more commentary after it happened. What do you think of the revision? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 06:27, 14 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::It's not really that different, but I think I preferred the other one. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 06:59, 14 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::That's my initial reaction too. But I'm not sure if that's just because I was ''used'' to the old one, or if it's actually ''better'' somehow, so I'm giving myself a few days to grow on me before I cast judgement.<br /> :::(IIRC this originally started because the old one needed to be re-coded due to some IE problem... which snowballed into a full-on redesign. So even if we reverted things template would still need changes.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 07:48, 14 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::I mostly like it much better, however...<br /> ::::The dotted border needs to be a normal border, IMHO.<br /> ::::The default &quot;Human&quot; and &quot;Others&quot; sections are now the wrong colors, and I don't think we really want to have to manually swap the code on every single instance of the Template. [[Eye in the Sky|Example]]... you can see how the &quot;Others&quot; has the nice fleshie color, while the &quot;Humans&quot; are the deeper color that doesn't match as nicely visually. Unless you can figure out how to swap the display without having to swap all the code, I think it needs to go back, unfortunately for your alternating. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 08:04, 14 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Is this like Crayola defining a peach crayon as &quot;flesh&quot; tone? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 11:52, 14 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::&lt;nowiki&gt;*&lt;/nowiki&gt;snerk* OK, I deserved that. But more like, when I look at the light beige I think &quot;human&quot; and when I look at the orangey-yellow I think &quot;human suffering from jaundice&quot;. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 12:03, 14 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Hmm... the reason the 3rd and 4th column's colors were swapped was for their density (grayscale) values so that the template would be more readable the low-color-depth e-readers (there are already ~ a million unit out there, and the category is expanding rapidly.) But the loose subject-color correlation we've got going on is useful. I'll take a poke at the template tonight and see if I can't tweak the hues without affecting the density; best of both worlds. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:17, 14 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::While you're at it, see if you can figure out how to fix the fact that the top and bottom borders of the two outside columns are thicker than the same borders of any columns between them.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 16:58, 14 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::Which browser are you using? I only have Firefox 3.5, IE 8, and Chrome 3.0 handy at the moment, but it looks fine in all of those. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:24, 14 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::Firefox 3.5.2 on a Mac, FWIW. You can see the problem on this screen shot [[Media:RHeroesNewFCBorderProblem.jpg|here]]. Even allowing for JPG artifacting, the thinner lines at the top and bottom of the Decepticons column should be apparent in the full-res view.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 21:12, 14 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::Can you check [http://www.aldenbates.com/fctest.html this page] and see if the borders are correct? I suspect it's some sort of border-collapse bug. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 22:23, 14 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::::I thought we just sprayed for those things.... Anyway, the test page looks fine, all borders equal.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 17:50, 15 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == &quot;Murder&quot; Category ==<br /> What is that all about, why is it stuck in flux like &quot;Things that doesn't exist&quot;, and why has it magically returned back to its former state after I pressed the &quot;Save page&quot; button? --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 13:48, 14 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Well, I'm not a ''scientist'', but I '''suspect''' it's related to the fact that [[:Category: Murder|both pages in the category]] promise to murder you if you don't understand a key concept described therein.<br /> :I have no idea where your edits went; but they're not listed in history. Maybe it was just a server hiccup? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:03, 14 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :That's obviously policy related. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:29, 14 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::How can you view that category's history if it doesn't exist? --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 02:50, 15 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::How can you view something that doesn't exist?<br /> :::We used to have a policy page specifically forbidding murder as a form of resolving debates. It got deleted.<br /> :::People are a ''lot'' more civil now. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:34, 20 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::I think we might need that page back.<br /> ::::[[Talk:Alpha Trion (SG)|I admit that I may have at one point threatened anyone who dared to say that Alpha Trion was one of the 13 without any plausible evidence to back them up with murder using SG Alpha Trion's sword.]] --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:23, 24 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Login Timeouts ==<br /> <br /> I've noticed recently that I keep getting logged out constantly... did we tweak something lately? (I think I had to log back in a good five times while working on Jackpot's article yesterday...) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 11:50, 19 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :The system seems fine to me, I haven't got problem like this. --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 20:52, 19 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :No problems here. Have you tried deleting your site cookies? That was happening to me on another site (a forum) and the problem went away after I deleted the cookies and logged back in. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:09, 19 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Software upgrade (and known issues)==<br /> Now that the traffic from ROTF has died down some, is it time we looked at updating the MediaWiki software we're running? The latest version out is 1.51. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 17:00, 20 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ===Interwiki linking===<br /> I was trying to link to this ( [http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln%27s_Second_Inaugural_Address http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln%27s_Second_Inaugural_Address] ) article today... and I realized I couldn't do it.<br /> <br /> I can interwiki link to WikiSource... but ''not'' to en.wikisource.org. &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikipedia:Articlename]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links properly direct to en.wikipedia.com; since we are an english wiki, it [[Wikipedia:Help:Interwiki_linking|assumes we want to]] link to the English wikipedia... but ''no'' such assumption is made for WikiSource (because you could reasonably be assumed to be linking to a non-English source, once supposes.)<br /> <br /> In fact I '''can't''' link to the spanish-language version of the [[Wikipedia: Tacitus| Tacitus]] article either; &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Wikipedia:es:Tácito]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; takes me to a non-existant article named [[Wikipedia:es:Tácito|Tácito]] on the ''english'' Wikipedia.<br /> <br /> It's not a big deal... the need to link to non-english articles is so rare that we can just substitute an external link. but it '''does''' means that we can't link properly to Wikisource '''at all''' because their articles ''require'' the language code to be set.... and we simply can't do that. (We should check back on this problem and see if it fixes itself with the software upgrade.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:04, 21 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :That [[Wikipedia:es:Tácito|es:Tácito]] link does, in fact, take me to &quot;http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tácito&quot;! Once I hit en.wikipedia.org, I get redirected to the Spanish version. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 05:28, 21 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I think that's being handled server-side by Wikipedia's server though. &quot;No article by this name, what could they be searching for? There's a spanish one...&quot; The point is that link format ''should'' take you to the correct sever ''without'' the server itself acting as a catchment for sloppy linking. (And Wikisource doesn't do that, which brings us back full circle.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:35, 21 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::Sure, ideally, but from looking at the MediaWiki source, it looks like that's how they intend interwiki links to the Spanish version of Wikipedia to be done. There's nothing stopping us from adding in our own Interwiki prefixes of course! So even if the update doesn't fix the problem, someone with database access can tweak the Interwiki table. I have noted down to suggest [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SpecialInterwiki this extension], when we get around to installing extensions. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 06:20, 21 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ===Macron issue===<br /> I've only tested the SQL statement I came up with to fix the macron issue on version 1.12, so ideally that should be done before we upgrade the software. I sent it to McFly a while back, but haven't heard anything more. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 22:30, 25 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ===SearchSuggest===<br /> The [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Search_Suggest SearchSuggest extension] which we're using will be obsolete once we upgrade (it's been replaced by native functionality as of version 1.13 of MediaWiki). I suspect that it'll probably need to be removed. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:32, 9 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Article &quot;suites&quot; ==<br /> <br /> We've got a couple articles that're broken up into chunks because of length. (Mostly toy-sections.) I worry that the broken off bits become &quot;less&quot; somehow.<br /> <br /> Enter [[Template:Suite]] which I've roleld out on the [[Optimus Prime (G1)]] article. It throws a quicknav up in the empty space to the right of the continuity note, and snugs it up against the disambig (if present.) The template has an &quot;easy mode&quot; and a &quot;hard mode,&quot; but neither mode is ''particularly'' hard. Anyway... I thought this seemed useful. (Besides, Wikia has a proper nav for this sort of thing, and it irked me that we didn't. Theirs, however, occupies the spot where our &quot;Factions&quot; icons go, so...)<br /> <br /> Thoughts? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:08, 20 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I like it. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 01:44, 21 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::I like the idea! ;-D <br /> ::By the way, since we now have [[Template:Suite]], do we still need &lt;nowiki&gt;==Toys== or ==Merchandise==&lt;/nowiki&gt; section (which contains nothing) in those page with template:suite? (But section such as &quot;Marvel Comics continuity&quot; should be kept because there are summary in the section.)--'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt;02:46, 21 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I think... yes? If only because people are so used to seeing them... they're level-2 headers. I don't think it's wise to ''depend'' on people noticing the suite thing at the top of the article.<br /> :::And anyway, we still have a section for Prime in the Marvel comics, neh? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:22, 21 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::I agree. If people miss the suite box and go to to the bottom of the article, looking for Opty's toys, they'll be confused when they don't find the forwarding link. Definitely keep the toy sections. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 03:43, 21 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Like the faction symbols, I view this as a more of an enhancement of the existing layout than a replacement. (Which is why I was so pleased to be able to sneak it into the 'empty space' to the right of the continuity note... no additional disruption to the layout.)<br /> :::::I wonder if this (or a version of it) might proove useful for sub-franchise pages; e.g. Linking the Marvel Comics series page to the Marvel Comcis timeline page. Replace the [[Revenge of the Fallen (Wii/PS2)|game navigation]] we use. (It never quite sat right with me, switching to a different franchise navigation just for the games.)<br /> :::::This isn't... ''there'' yet, but it's a step in the right direction I think. Just like creating the Franchise Navigation ''at all'' was a big step in the right direction in 2007, I think ''this'' (or a solution we evolve once this is in practice and we've got a clearer idea of what we need) could be a step toward that next-level-down interlinking that we're missing.<br /> :::::And frankly, [http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Optimus_Prime_%28G1%29 Wikia] had it and we didn't... and that's shameful. This wasn't even on my radar (at least in this specific application) until I noticed Wikia had it. (I happen to ''like'' their highly-visible solution better but; '''1)''' We have faction icons in that space. '''2)''' I think that solution breaks down when you have more than 1 sub-page... and we already have 3.)<br /> :::::Unrelated to all that... the sub-pages are a bit bland to cross-navigate to. Is there any reason '''not''' to put pictures at the top of them? (I'm gonna throw one at the top of the [[Optimus Prime (G1)/Marvel Comics continuity|Marvel Comics section]] as an example.)<br /> :::::Even more meta... how do people feel about an [[Optimus Prime (G1)/weapons]] page? A sort of clearinghouse article to link provide top-level links to Roller, the Combat Deck, his Powermaster partners, our article on the Energon axe and his gun? (Note: I don't think we have an article on his gun... but we ought.) As well any anything else that's &quot;form specific&quot; (and thus really doesn't belong in the suite itself) but still prominent enough to have gotten its own article that's really &quot;about&quot; one aspect of Optimus Prime. ('Weapons' feels better than 'Equipment' for some reason... I don't know.) I'm just throwing the idea out there. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:18, 21 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::::::''If'' that counts, we do have [[Ion blaster|Optimus Prime's gun]]. --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 08:22, 21 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::::Oh yeah, in fact TX55 set up the Wikia solution (it's identical code to the link on [[Christmas]] to the gallery). Personally I actually find it ''less'' visible than the suite block, partly because of the big three-line sitewide message they have which pushes the page title down. I completely missed the link to the archives on their Community Portal page, so at first glance it appeared as though someone had deleted all the portal chatter from before this April.<br /> ::::::Also, I agree completely about putting pictures at the top of the sub-pages. :) --[[User:Abates|abates]] 04:58, 21 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::If you were logged in the ad-spam wouldn't be there and it'd display properly in the H1. (The reason we ''don't'' do the factions this same way is because a sufficiently long page title is expected to wrap politely around the icons... and using CSS positioning would actually cause them to just smash on top of one another. It's not a ''big'' deal, but our solution is preferable; iPhones might have zooming full-screens, but the expanding e-reader market can be expected to mangle pages.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:16, 21 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Definitely like it. And yeah, we should try to have a main pic for sub-pages. (For Prime's cartoon page, I propose his robot mode at the start of that one transformation sequence that got used in like half the episodes.) -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 09:41, 21 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::When I took a look at this last night, I liked the idea but wasn't overly keen on the plainer look. What Derik has up there now however, that's ridiculously full of win. I approve. <br /> :::I also agree both with main pics on the subpages and the weapon/equipment sub-page for Prime. Perhaps the main pic for the weapon/equipment page could be a screen capture of Prime pointing his gun at the &quot;camera&quot;? --[[User:Tigerpaw28|Tigerpaw28]] 13:25, 21 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ==nofollow for dead links==<br /> I've noticed that some of our external links are to sites that are defunct. I can understand why we'd want to keep the link on, say [[Transform Your Way]], but we'll get dinged in our Search Engine rankings for each dead link. Is there any way we can get the &lt;i&gt;rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&lt;/i&gt; tag in there for defunct links?--[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 04:15, 22 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :As far as I'm aware, &lt;tt&gt;rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&lt;/tt&gt; is already enabled on all external links as a matter of course. It's enabled on the link on that page, for instance, if you look in the HTML source.<br /> :Generally it's the opposite that we have to deal with... disabling the nofollow on links we ''want'' to send Google juice to. There was talk of that for TFU.info, the Universe profiles, and a few other sites, but I don't know if it ever got implemented. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 08:48, 22 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Ah, good to know. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 11:15, 22 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::It hasn't been implemented - it needs someone with server access to edit the configuration file. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:48, 22 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Scout's taken a whack at it, but the software is Mysteriously Not Cooperating. (I suspect that like similar issues it's just going to wait until we upgrade and see if that fixes it.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:53, 22 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Ah, that explains a lot! (I had similar fun trying to set up PHPBBS a while back) --[[User:Abates|abates]] 23:57, 22 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Water gun article==<br /> : Is there an article about the squirting guns of transformer toys? there is an article about a water gun used by Ironhide, but it has nothing to do with the gimick of a transformer squirting water. Should we make an article like the rest of the gimmicks?--[[User:Sunjumper|Sunjumper]] 14:32, 24 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Yes. How about &quot;water weapon&quot;? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 14:48, 24 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::To make it more easy to look for, could we call it water-gun? or water gun(toy)?I'm not going to start untill i'm sure what to call it.--[[User:Sunjumper|Sunjumper]] 15:05, 24 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::In the toy bios it is called a variety of things: aquapower, water power, water weapon... what about following the lead of [[sparking gimmick]] and call it &quot;water gimmick&quot; or &quot;water-squirting gimmick&quot;. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 15:14, 24 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::I'll do my best to make a good article, be gentle on me, i've only made an article once before.--[[User:Sunjumper|Sunjumper]] 15:18, 24 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Our new resident vandal..... ==<br /> <br /> {{main|Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Vandalism}}<br /> <br /> == Wiki Acting Weird ==<br /> <br /> Ok, what's up? I've just had an edit conflict with myself. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:28, 25 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Googlejuice - Bad News Everyone ==<br /> <br /> [http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=transformers+wiki Current Google]: TFWiki third for &lt;font face=&quot;monospace&quot;&gt;transformers wiki&lt;/font&gt;, behind two Wikia results<br /> <br /> [http://www2.sandbox.google.com/#hl=en&amp;ei=XmaUSry7C43EMI65_SI&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=spell&amp;resnum=0&amp;ct=result&amp;cd=1&amp;q=transformers+wiki&amp;spell=1&amp;fp=7b823cb19394de08 New Google (a.k.a., &quot;Caffeine&quot;)]: TFWiki fifth, behind two Wikia results and two Wikipedia results.<br /> <br /> So. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 18:38, 25 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Hmm, for me, we've been in &quot;fifth&quot; on google.com since soon after ROTF came out. I assumed it was just cause a bunch of bloggers had been linking to the Wikipedia article (and Google regards &quot;wiki&quot; as a synonym for &quot;Wikipedia&quot;) in which case as the posts they made with the links in moved off their front pages, Wikipedia would move down again. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 20:11, 25 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::The sandbox link you gave there is showing us third, San.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 20:41, 25 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::The sandbox link doesn't actually work for me now, for some reason. And, re: Abates... now I look, google.com does show as fifth, while google.co.uk shows as third. I didn't realise that .com and .co.uk showed different results for a worldwide search... - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 16:19, 26 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::They use a bunch of different databases which all seem to be updated at different rates. I see the one the sandbox version is using has an updated version of our [[Dirk Manus]] article (which annoyingly seems to have dropped out of the database google.com is using). --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:09, 26 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::Content-wise, there's not a lot we can do. We were down a lot during the period when the Great Unwashed were blogging about Transformers and didn't know to link to the ''good'' wiki.<br /> :::SEO is server-side, and no one's seen Scout in weeks. (I'd recommend we pursue the &quot;canonical URL&quot; thing, which search engines are supposed to like.) I'd be happy to take a whack at it... but I don't have FTP access. :p -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:20, 25 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::'''Note:''' canonical url's have been added to MediaWiki 1.15, the most recent version released in June. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:33, 25 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Another good reason to upgrade! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 22:17, 25 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::No, another good reason to '''perform a full database backup'''.<br /> ::::::Once ''that'' is done and copies saved in at least 3 different locations... ''then'' we can attempt an upgrade. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:37, 26 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::::::One hopes after the previous incident that that would be taken as read! I'd reiterate my previous query regarding regular backups, but... --[[User:Abates|abates]] 02:07, 26 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::Backups are fine, I'm running a test restore to an alternate machine to confirm that the beloved database is okay. If we're going to run an update, I recommend we bring the wiki back to read-only prior to a nightly backup, do a test restore, make sure said test restore is functional, and then (and only then!) attempt the upgrade on the live server. That would probably take a few hours, and you're working around our job schedules, which makes it a little hard to find us. I'd probably drop the macron fix in at that point as well. --[[User:McFly|McFly]] 11:15, 2 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::Confirmed. I just restored yesterday's backup to an alternate machine, and the whole thing came up with a working DB, just as we'd like. Huzzah! --[[User:McFly|McFly]] 12:19, 2 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::Just as a thought... we've now (I think) cleaned out the Wikia spam from all the ''active'' pages, but obviously the page histories are all still crammed with it. When the upgrade comes, could the filter that was originally ran to clean all that out be run again? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 16:38, 2 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::The filter we originally ran was on the database dump before it was restored, whereas doing an upgrade would be on the live database, so the same technique wouldn't work. I don't know that there'd be much of a benefit to go about working out a way to scrub the spam from the histories — people don't look at them that often and the search engines don't index them.<br /> :::::::::::Also: ''awesome'' news on the backups, McFly! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 17:03, 2 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ===On upgrading...===<br /> Just checking - whenever we upgrade, the relevant version of MediaWiki allows you to move images in the same way as pages, ja?<br /> <br /> I ask because I made a [[User:SanityOrMadness/test2|list of all the Marvel UK cover uploads]] earlier today (NB: #168 and #170 don't appear to have been uploaded in any form, and quite a few others are GIFs, blurry or tiny) for future reference, and there really is no consistently-applied naming schema. ([[:Image:PerchanceToDream.jpg|Some don't]] [[:Image:Desert island risks.jpg|even mention]] [[:Image:BludgeonUK1.jpg|the issue number]] in their names. They ''should'' all be at &quot;Image:MarvelUK-XXX.jpg&quot;, which is the most common and consistent with the &quot;Image:MarvelUS-XX.jpg&quot; format for the Marvel US series.) - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 17:13, 6 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Yes, newer versions let you move images. That's one piece of functionality I'll be glad to have! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 17:29, 6 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Also, judging by Wikia, images are in a File: namespace instead of the Image: namespace. Hmm. (Incidentally, if you're in need of a laugh, go to the old wikia and click on &quot;Recent blog posts&quot; in the sidebar. Wow.) --[[User:Abates|abates]] 17:49, 6 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == So Someone at IDW Reads the Wiki it Seems... ==<br /> <br /> Oh, hey, the wiki's back up for me. Er. I guess I'll double-post this for the folks who don't read the Allspark, then:<br /> <br /> Someone on the IDW forums pointed this out, and I realized they're right: At the back of All Hail Megatron #14, on the page advertising All Hail Megatron 15, the blue text behind the drawing of Perceptor is taken verbatim from our G1 Perceptor entry. All of it, seriously (I did manage to check before the wiki went poof...) I actually have no idea what to think of that. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:41, 26 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Is that in-line with [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ the CC-BY-SA licence] (or, I suppose, the GDFL depending on when they locked for print), especially the &quot;Attribution&quot; part of that? [I don't have the issue, since I've never bothered with AHM, so I can't check that for what was said/used] - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 19:52, 26 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :It means that All Hail Megatron #14 is now Creative Commons, and anyone can make a copy of it or remix it without fear of legal repressions. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:58, 26 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::'''Edit:''' Oh, it was an ad for the next issue. Just the ad is creative commons then, no biggie. We'll see if anything make it into the issue itself.<br /> ::Seriously, this is ''exactly'' why I was suggesting we adopt [[Transformers_Wiki_talk:Community_Portal/Relicensing#Suggested_direction|a separate license]] with terms for comercial productions that already have the TF license from Hasbro/Takara, to prevent ''exactly'' that sort of legal ambiguity. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:58, 26 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I agree we should have a license that better reflects our legal rights and not-rights... it's just the question of how to legally switch to it without the impossible task of getting permission from every wiki contributor that's the problem. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:55, 26 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::I talked about this (how to rollout a second Hasbro-friendly license) a little... somewhere in that long-winded thing I wrote.<br /> ::::I've been poking at it for a couple hours... and I think that we'd be ''best'' off invoking the principle of a &quot;customary freehold&quot;, an unwritten legal arrangement that's seldom seen anymore (because since the 19th century all contracts have been written down) but which is still recognized to be valid.<br /> ::::That would cast us as &lt;small&gt;(try to keep a straight face)&lt;/small&gt; untaxed tenant farmers on Hasbro's land. We keep the result of our labor, but our work also benefits Hasbro in that it cultivates their land (promotes their brand.) No contracts were signed, but our mucking about on/with Hasbro's property does not make us outlaws... but some mixture of neighbor, a guest and serf. We incur obligation to our host, and Hasbro incurs obligation to its fans... both of which can be said to be &quot;paid down&quot; by characterizing the kind of fractional diffusion/transmission of intellectual property that takes place between both parties is a 'gift.' (This is distinct from turning a blind eye and pretending it does not exist, because it means that Hasbro actually ''has'' a right to use a small non-specified portion of our labors... we gifted it to them!)<br /> ::::''Put more simply'', it makes fans [[Wikipedia:pilot fish|pilot fish]] existing in a mutually beneficial symbiosis with a larger corporate entity. <br /> ::::The reason I favor '''this''' solution is because<br /> ::::* That's not a license. It's an underlying legal principle that was ''always'' in effect. (In other words, it applies to all past edits.)<br /> ::::* I think this actually reflects what fans believe they are doing then they contribute to the wiki, as well as our general belief that we've incurred ''some'' (though not overwhelming) moral obligation to protect our &quot;Landlord&quot;'s interests.<br /> ::::* The actual second license '''itself''' would grant limited usage rights in a more explicit manner for all edits made past 11-01-2009 (or whatever), then fall back on customary freehold rights for the remainder... and only when ''that'' is exhausted does Fair use come into play. In short- &quot;we give them explicit permission to use this portion, they had implicit permission to use a portion of the remainder, and they have a legal right to use another portion of ''that'' remainder afterward without our permission.&quot; 3 levels of diminishing legal protection that act as &quot;catchment&quot; for Hasbro's use of our content. They would have to '''heroically''' abuse our content-- wholesale reprinting-- to bust all 3.<br /> ::::That's pretty much the best of all possible worlds... in that it actually has some ''retroactive'' application to old content, because rather than releasing the content under this principle it recognizes that this principle had always existed, just like Fair Use always exists. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:08, 27 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::I voted for that. At least I voted as close to that as possible without knowing a whole lot about the ins-and-outs of licenses and such. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 00:46, 27 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::It doesn't work that way... those come INTO the cover. They only get infected if they go OUT of it again. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:16, 4 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ===(Edit break)===<br /> Actually, this makes me happy. You know why? Two reasons:<br /> #The text is very definitely from ''our'' version of the article, not Wikia's. There are passages in that promo that we wrote after the split with Wikia.<br /> #The text includes one of our nutball captions: &quot;Like every other tough-guy group walk in the movies...&quot;<br /> This tickles me pink, really.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 22:09, 26 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :That's awesome, especially the (no doubt unintentional) use of the caption. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 22:50, 26 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::True, I am glad to know that the IDW folks don't look at Wikia... Does this merit a mention on the issue's page itself, with a link to the current Percy revision? (And maybe a nice, clear scan of the advertisement?) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:53, 26 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I think it only means the colorist of the graphic reads our Wiki. I believe it's one of the covers of AHM #15, not merely an ad. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:59, 26 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::[[:Image:AllHailMegatron15 CoverA.jpg|Yep]]. It's going to be Cover A.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 23:10, 26 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Ah! In that case, I think [[Joana Lafuente]] is the colorist, if I'm remembering my IDW forum posts correctly. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:18, 26 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Not surprising she'd throw a little love our way, considering. Personally, that's all I take this as.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 23:19, 26 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :If Hasbro contacts us RE: that cover, can we offer to settle a nickel? --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 23:13, 26 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::No actually, under CC-BY-SA3, no one person or body has the ability to act as legal proxy for all contribuitors. IDW would need to contact every single person who's ever edited the Perceptor article and get them ''all'' to sign off on it. (I'm not kidding, that's actually what the code mandates.) If they fail to do this, the result ''automatically'' becomes CC-BY-SA3.<br /> ::[http://deriksmith.livejournal.com/45915.html ...or we could do this.] (I've been researching you see.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:56, 27 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Wait, if AHM14 came out on August the 19th, surely they went to print ''before'' we switched licences? Marvel print in North America, and they still go to print 19 or 20 days before an issue comes out. IDW print further afield (in South Korea, wasn't it?), and even AHM15 may well have gone to print before Aug 1. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 19:57, 1 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::[Oh, and while you're saying the &quot;infection&quot; is small, and limited to the ad/cover... the &quot;infected&quot; cover would/will include the Transformers and IDW logos...] - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 20:00, 1 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ===A new argument===<br /> Okay, this is a ''little'' specious, but I'm going to throw this out and see what others think...<br /> * Preview art is often pending approval, (particularly covers) and may receive changes prior to the actual hard-copy publication.<br /> * It would be most accurate to say that the work is first licensed (or at least re-licensed) at the time of hard-copy publication.<br /> * The AHM#15 ad then, would be a work unto itself... complete with ad dress.<br /> * The AHM #15 ''cover'', which will remove this ad dress (and possibly re-crop or re-present the base illustration) before adding ''cover dress'' is a new work... ''not'' derived from the AHM#15 ad. (the ad dress was not an earlier state from which the actual cover derived-- both the ad and the cover are branches of a dress-less illustration.)<br /> * As such, at the time of AHM#15's publication, that cover will be licensed under whatever terms we have available... and ''not'' as a derivation of the AHM#15 ad.<br /> I'm a bit wary of this... because it seems to claim that the online previews of the cover with no dress does ''not'' count as a licensed work. Yet such previews often are listed as 'subject to change' and thus are demonstrably not a final product. (In the case of Marvel titles, they can have cover elements completely altered when they realize their penciler traced copyrighted images.) Finally, and perhaps most lamely... the text on the preview isn't legible.<br /> <br /> (Uh... FWIW the ad itself appears to be a slight crop-down, and perhaps had its colors re-graded compared to the original preview.)<br /> Basically this hinges on the online preview not having licensed the content from us... defining it as 'an internal work-document' whose use of our content was ''not'' yet licensed under CC-BY-SA... the licensing to take place after final approvals at the time of hardcopy publication. <br /> <br /> (This isn't entirely crazy, fair use allows you to make a cull copy of a movie for your personal use, but you'd have to clear the rights to use more than snippets for a comercial product. Graphic designers routinely do mockups of layouts without clearing the fonts or stock photography used... only doing so after the final version is approoved. Who are we to say at what point in the process the licensing occoured? We know only that it must have happened before the end.)<br /> <br /> Thoughts? And does anyone know the actual publication date of AHM #15? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 10:15, 31 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Nothing more specific than &quot;September&quot; for the moment. With any luck IDW's newsletter will come out tomorrow so my placeholder can finally get properly sorted. (It used to be that Tipton would have an up-to-date schedule on his blog sidebar, but he seems to have stopped regularly updating it.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 20:02, 31 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Looks like it's coming out on the 16th. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:23, 1 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::What a lovely due-date we have! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:30, 1 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ===Preview's out===<br /> Preview, cover text intact: http://www.bzzurkk.com/2009/09/transformers-all-hail-megatron-15-preview/ - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 17:06, 13 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Lovely. I have drafted some [http://deriksmith.livejournal.com/47225.html notes on a possible license.] Please feel free to review and respond.<br /> :If no fundamental problems arise, I will probably beat my head against a wall tomorrow to flatten this into an actual $%^&amp;* license text (with a forward-compatibility clause in case we discover a problem later) and propose it to the wiki for formal consideration.<br /> :Whether or not anybody but me thinks it's a good idea... remains to be seen. - [[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:45, 14 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Blinking redirects gone from Show Preview? ==<br /> Was wondering where the triple-underlines and yellow blinking went whenever I hit &quot;Show Preview&quot;. I might've missed the memo regarding that. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 13:19, 27 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :You're right, it's not working for me either. I want that back, it was incredibly useful! :( --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:56, 27 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Looks like Derik made a typo when commenting out a bit of code in the stylesheet - there's a stray s after the comment. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:27, 27 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Oops. I shall fix. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:51, 27 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Shouldn't stuff like that be in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] anyway? Once it's tested and working, etc. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 22:36, 27 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::In theory, but some people hate the blinking so I've held its status as &quot;in development&quot; until people either get used to it or a superior solution emerges. For example, Rosicrucian specifically asked me how to override the blinking a few weeks ago, so I think he's either messing about with different effects or at least ''intends'' to do so. Given that he's done a good chunk of our designwork (I do a lot of the template stuff, but he developed monacobook) there's a reasonable chance he's could come back with a solution everyone likes better, so holding the code as 'in development' for awhile longer is merely prudent.<br /> :::::(If I had admin access I might feel different, but I don't, so going back to try to tweak code once it's in Common.css because you later realize it needs changing is a ''major'' hassle. So I try not to migrate these styles until they seem final and there's nothing on the horizon that seems likely to change 'em.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:00, 27 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Ah. Maybe just yellow highlight and triple-underline them without the blinking? --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 23:41, 27 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::I kinda like the animation as it catches the eye, though Firefox seems to have problems figuring out when you click on a blinking link. I'm thinking maybe if the text stays put and instead it has an animated background, which could be a small animated gif that pulses or something. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 23:54, 27 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::Oh, so THAT'S what that was. I was getting incredibly annoyed by that. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 03:39, 28 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::It's ''supposed'' to be annoying, so you'll be motivated to change the redirect to the proper link to make it go away. (I tried telling that to Rosicrucian when he complained about the blinking, but I don't think I explained it very well...) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:31, 28 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::Oh, why do they have to be back?! --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 09:25, 9 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::Maybe because they're incredibly useful? -[[User:Mazenoise|Mazenoise]] 09:29, 9 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::::Where did I put the code I gave Rosicrucian... ah, '''here it is'''. If you truly hate the blinking, add the following to [[Special:Mypage/monacobook.css|your style page]]:<br /> &lt;pre&gt;#wikiPreview a.mw-redirect{<br /> text-decoration: underline; <br /> }&lt;/pre&gt;<br /> ::::::::::::That will turn blink off. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:00, 15 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::::DERIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIK!!!!!<br /> :::::::::::::That doesn't work. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:21, 15 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::::::Does so. Shift-refresh to clear your cache. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:11, 15 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::::::I did that, and it still doesn't work. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 01:40, 16 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::::::::Curious. You don't happen to be using Monobook as your defauly style instead of Monacobook, do you... ? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:57, 16 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::::::::Nope. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 07:49, 16 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == GoBox Problem ==<br /> <br /> Is there something wrong with the GoBoxes? Whenever I go to [[Talk:Bulkhead syndrome]], I get a GoBox that leads to [[Max|this page]]. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 09:20, 2 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Go-boxes for a given page will sometimes cache for short periods of time.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 11:09, 2 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ==Can the nav-template images be variables?==<br /> For example: The [[:Template:Nav-henkei|''Henkei! Henkei!'' nav-template]] uses the logo from the toy packaging, since that applies to the majority of the pages the template is on. However, the [[Henkei! Henkei! (Comic Bun Bun)|Comic Bun Bun ''Henkei!'' material]]<br /> uses a completely different logo design, and it would be nice to be able to substitute it for just that page. This is one of several times I've wanted to be able to do that, and maybe there's a simple way to designate the image as a replaceable variable, but my markup-fu is weak. Any help is appreciated. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 20:35, 6 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :&lt;s&gt;The answer seems to be &quot;no&quot;... for some reason, even with a default set in the parameter, the imagemap code refuses to parse the parameter's info.&lt;/s&gt;<br /> :&lt;s&gt;You could always just post the entire code of the navigation template manually on that one page with the logo code swapped...&lt;/s&gt; --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:22, 6 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :NM, I figured it out. You should be able to do this now:<br /> :&lt;nowiki&gt;{{nav-henkei|logo=(filename)|size=(number)(unit)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;<br /> :It's set up so that if the parameters aren't given, it'll just display the default, so you don't need to change the pages that do use the typical logo. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:36, 6 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Awesooooooooome, thank you. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 22:32, 6 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::No problem. :) Let me know if you need any of the other navs altered, although you should be able to just copy and paste the code and change the defaults... (actually, with my [[User:Jeysie/FranchiseNavs|idea for a code revamp]], I wonder if it might be possible to just have one nav template with all variables...) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:22, 6 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Hmm, I didn't know you were playing around with franchise-nav revisions. I actually have a grand proposal cooking up in my head for a full breadcrumb-trail nav revamp that would be applicable to basically any non-character/item/place article. The idea being that if you're at, say, an article about a comic issue, there would be a nav in the corner with links to the series, franchise, and continuity family going up in a column. And if you're at a series-article, you would be one step up in that chain, and the nav would have links to all the other series in that franchise (presented in the current style), as well as the vertically-arranged &quot;title&quot; links to the franchise and continuity family. Then if you're at a franchise, you get links to the other franchises in that continuity family, plus the continuity family itself. And, finally, the continuity-family articles themselves would have a nav with links to the other families. It would be a change in functionality to the effect that the cluster of little links would always be lateral, and digging down into more specific topics would require links within the articles themselves. Currently that's the case with most articles, the exception being franchises. But I think it would be incredibly awesome to have that kind of breadcrumb-trail so a reader always knows where he or she is in the multiverse at large. Plus it would help clarify how the hierarchy of families and franchises and series and so on actually works in specific cases, since that's often been a source of confusion and argument.<br /> ::::But I figure I should cobble together a working sample of some sort before I formally present the idea, and I think I might need some more markup-fu before that's even possible. Or I could make a facsimile in Flash or something... Anyway, at the very least, I think having the ability to swap out the logo image is actually a step towards making this idea happen. So thanks again!<br /> ::::- [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 00:27, 7 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Well, my current idea was mainly just trying to simplify the existing coding a little, as well as adding some prev/next links to the continuity family section. I think the big problem with breadcrumb links is that people would have to put them in by hand, which would make filling in comic stories even more work than it already is. The &quot;continuity family&quot; section of the comicnav template already tends to be pretty inconsistent sometimes depending on how the person creating the page chooses to link it. (In other words, it's a nice idea, but it'd be too contingent on people filling it in correctly.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 00:41, 7 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::The episode nav template uses standard strings to identify continuities (like &quot;g1toon&quot;) and then uses look-up tables to find the proper series page link for this, the proper &quot;human-readable&quot; for that link and even look up how many episodes there are in the series, and create automatic prev/next links as long as you give it an episode number.<br /> :::::::The reason we use strings instead of pagenames is '''1)''' they're shorter, simpler, cleaner, more standardized... '''2)''' it means that if the page moves (or we change our mind on the naming convention) we only have to change it in ''one place'' in the lookup tables, and the link changes on hundreds of pages.<br /> :::::::What I'm saying is... you DON'T need to force users to fill in series/franchise/family. ...just fill in the SERIES. Let the template fill in the rest! (And let you manually override the lookup if you explicitly provide variables, for maximum flexability.)<br /> :::::::But that's not a system you can throw together by trial and error; it needs proper architecture planning or it'll be a godawful mess.<br /> :::::::I guess what I'm saying is... if we really want to rationalize and standardize the major templates on the wiki... we need a serious meta-talk about what that means, in the broadest possible scope. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:01, 7 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::Well, the problem is... I agree it'd be pretty easy to auto-breadcrumb the TV series. But when you start getting into things like the comics and text stories, you start running into many different miniseries and individual issues, all of which fit into different continuities. I think the continuity family is already enough info for those, provided we make sure they all point to the right ones. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 01:48, 7 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::That's not exactly a 'problem' as it's conventionally thought of. You could set up auto-fill-ins for the 6 most commons comics-- which would cover 70-80% of everything, but let manual values be set for the rest (or not set) to the level of detail you desire. No solution has to be 100% you know. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:05, 7 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::No, but for stuff like the Marvel Comics it would take just as long to copy and paste in manual info as it would to paste in the new code, after all. So it's the new pages where people would have one more thing to add in that you'd really need to worry about, if it's part of that other 20%. Whereas I agree that new TV series episodes would get to have the benefit of auto-ness.<br /> ::::::::::I guess it just seems like a lot of work for little benefit, seeing as how the continuity part of the nav pretty much covers all the context necessary. Not that I don't think it's possible the ep/comicnav could use some overhaul (though what exactly I don't know; they both seem pretty complete to me), just that I don't think breadcrumbs would be an effective expenditure of time. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 03:43, 7 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::::::I'm pretty much in agreement with that last sentiment, which is one of the reasons why I'm not technically proposing my idea yet. It needs a more concrete starting point (like a mock-up design) from which all the discussion and probably argument can branch. I have my own notions about how it could be set up in a way that wouldn't involve as much work or personal discretion as Jeysie suggests, but... well, now's not the time. Maybe later. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 01:12, 7 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::So what needs revision? The episode templates-- fine. And the comic issues. And the franchise navigation. And a standard breadcrumbing system... but what else? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:17, 7 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::I've noticed on the Marvel wiki that the &quot;writer&quot;/&quot;artist&quot; text in their issue infoboxes links to [[:Category: Writers]]. I'd liek us ot consider adding this. (Also, there's something about the size or spacing of their infoboxes I just ''like''... I think we might want to take a look at 'em when we get around to recoding.)<br /> <br /> ::::::Derik points out that in such a scenario, the breakcrumb need not be built into (for example) the episode infobox template. The more elegant solutions is something like:<br /> &lt;pre&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt; {{episode<br /> |breadcrumb= {{breadcrumb<br /> |continuity_family=[[Unicron Trilogy]]<br /> |franchise=[[Armada (franchise)|]]<br /> |series=[[Armada (cartoon)|cartoon]]<br /> }}<br /> }}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/pre&gt;<br /> ::::::...where you'd be pass the whole breadcrumb template as a parameter to another template. That way if the breadcrumb also has to show up in other templates... there's a standard code, standard styling, etc. Cleaner simpler code, easier to maintain, more universal, easier to work with, less percussive maintenence, etc.<br /> ::::::That's not a solution to everything though, because we've got two prev/next/series navs for comics, and some of the Marvel issues could use ''four'' or more. Stacking 4 of those things is retarded, and pointless. We need a more rational means of addressing republished stuff. I went to look up when a certain Marvel UK issue was published the other day and we '''didn't have the information'''. ...because it was published in the US first, and our template only has one &quot;pub date&quot; field. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:52, 7 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Sankyuu! Henkei needs a bit more love. :D --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 22:59, 6 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ===Jeysie's infobox===<br /> &lt;div style=&quot;border:solid 2px #def;float:right;margin:0 1em 1em 1em;text-align:center;width:300px;&quot;&gt;<br /> &lt;p style=&quot;background:#def;margin:0;padding:.2em .5em 0;text-align:center;&quot;&gt;'''Prisoner of War!'''&lt;/p&gt;<br /> &lt;div style=&quot;margin:1em .25em .5em .25em;&quot;&gt;[[Image:MarvelUS-03.jpg|frameless|230px]]&lt;br/&gt;Is he strong? Listen, [[Bud]], he made Megatron go thud.&lt;/div&gt;<br /> {|cellspacing=&quot;0&quot; style=&quot;margin:.5em 0;text-align:left;width:100%;&quot;<br /> |-<br /> !colspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;background:#def;margin:0;padding:.5em 0;text-align:center;&quot;|[[Marvel Comics]]<br /> |-<br /> !style=&quot;padding:.5em .5em .2em .5em;&quot;|Cover date<br /> |style=&quot;padding:.5em .5em .2em .5em;text-align:right;&quot;|January 1985<br /> |-<br /> !style=&quot;padding:.2em .5em .5em .5em;&quot;|Street date<br /> |style=&quot;padding:.2em .5em .5em .5em;text-align:right;&quot;|[[October 2]], 1984<br /> |-<br /> |colspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center;&quot;|[[Marvel Comics continuity]]<br /> |}<br /> {|style=&quot;background:#def;padding:.5em 0;width:100%;&quot;<br /> |-<br /> !style=&quot;border:outset 3px #9cf;font-size:125%;padding:0 .2em;&quot;|[[Power Play!|&amp;laquo;]]<br /> ![[The Transformers (Marvel comic)|''The Transformers'' (US)]] #3<br /> !style=&quot;border:outset 3px #9cf;font-size:125%;padding:0 .2em;&quot;|[[The Last Stand|&amp;raquo;]]<br /> |-<br /> !style=&quot;border:outset 3px #9cf;font-size:125%;padding:0 .2em;&quot;|[[Power Play!|&amp;laquo;]]<br /> ![[The Transformers (Marvel comic)#Marvel UK|''The Transformers'' (US)]] #5–6<br /> !style=&quot;border:outset 3px #9cf;font-size:125%;padding:0 .2em;&quot;|[[The Last Stand|&amp;raquo;]]<br /> |}<br /> {|style=&quot;padding:.5em;text-align:right;width:100%;&quot;<br /> |-<br /> !style=&quot;text-align:left;&quot;|Writer<br /> |[[Jim Salicrup]]<br /> |-<br /> !style=&quot;text-align:left;&quot;|Penciler<br /> |[[Frank Springer]]<br /> |-<br /> !style=&quot;text-align:left;&quot;|Inker<br /> |[[Kim DeMulder]], [[Jim Esposito]]<br /> |-<br /> !style=&quot;text-align:left;&quot;|Colorist<br /> |[[Nelson Yomtov]]<br /> |-<br /> !style=&quot;text-align:left;&quot;|Letterers<br /> |[[Janice Chiang]] &amp; Others<br /> |-<br /> !style=&quot;text-align:left;&quot;|Editor<br /> |[[Bob Budiansky]]<br /> |}<br /> &lt;/div&gt;<br /> I remember doing this rough tweak idea based on Derik's comment that he liked the Marvel wiki's infobox.<br /> <br /> Not very ''much'' of a tweak, admittedly, as I actually like our current setup for the most part. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:46, 17 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Okay, some things:<br /> :#{{tl|comicstory}} is used for a LOT more than, well, comic stories, to the point that the template name is bad. But unless you want to go and find/change all of those uses (and they're pretty diverse, I don't think you could bot them), it's pretty much impossible to change the broad layout of the template.<br /> :#Moving the back/forward navigation from the top (where it's easily accessible) to a point where it would be ''below the fold'' on netbooks, e-readers and less up to date PCs? Are you seriously suggesting that?!<br /> :Seriously, I don't &quot;get&quot; the ideas behind the layout here at all. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 22:00, 17 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::They all use pretty much the same setup, actually, if you look at them. I can't think of any usage on text stories and books that is seriously different offhand... they have different credit/info types, yes, but they go visually in the same places. I would probably put things like page count and ISBN in the &quot;publisher&quot; box.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;<br /> ::And like I said, I was emulating the Marvel wiki infobox, which actually has the navigation at the ''bottom''. But essentially... I wanted to get the title up top, and make a &quot;publisher&quot; section, and a &quot;credits&quot; section... and the navigation made a good visual divider between the last two sections. I agree it's kind of weird, though... I could see moving it back up to the top under the title and just having a thick border in its place between the bottom two sections.<br /> ::Like I said, it's pretty minor stuff... I think our infobox is just about perfect as-is, really. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:10, 17 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::It's not just stories. The [[Hasbro Q&amp;A]] pages use it. The Collectors' Club Magazine pages use it, along with other non-story content from magazines, etc. What's the &quot;title&quot; in those instances?<br /> :::Moreover, why move the title to the top at all? The title is already written in big letters at the top of the page on a single-story page, or at the top of the section on multi-story pages. Below the cover is a good place for it.<br /> :::And the cover date &amp; street date are hanging in no-man's land here, with no association with any relevant information - it looks like ''Marvel Comics'' had a street date of Oct 2, 1984.- [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 22:37, 17 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::We'd leave the title off. You know, just like we do for miniseries ''already''? Sheesh, I love it when people complain about something &quot;new&quot; without realizing the wiki already does it.&lt;/sarcasm&gt;<br /> ::::That said, if we move the navigation back to the top, we could move the title back under the picture again. I guess it just seems to me like it's the &quot;first&quot; bit of info about a book, and you could use your comment as an argument towards leaving out the title bit entirely anyway.<br /> ::::I like my publisher idea, though... it separates the meta-info about the book from the credits. And the publisher's name makes the most logical sense to use in a section heading. Like you said, the title's at the top, so I have a hard time thinking anyone's going to think the street date has to do with the publisher's name instead of the issue the article's about. I like to assume basic intelligence on the part of the reader. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 06:53, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::Our existing comicstory template is already deficient in presenting multi-part stories: I went to look up when [[Target: 2006]] was published... and discovered it had no date. And why ''should'' it? The article spans several issues, with no single correct date to give!<br /> :::(I happen to think presenting the UK stories in 1 article like this is stupid... but I lost that fight a long time ago, so the template might as well address it well.) -23:44, 17 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Er. What's wrong with just listing all the dates in the date section, or a range of dates? We already do that for Man of Iron, IIRC. I don't see what the big deal is there. It's a date field... no reason it can't have more than one date in it.<br /> ::::The only accommodation I might make is adding extra &quot;story 2&quot; credits to make credits for multiple stories a bit tidier, but that's less a major change and more just a tweak. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 06:53, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ====Counter-proposal====<br /> {{:User:SanityOrMadness/infobox}}<br /> Keeps the basic layout of the current {{tl|comicstory}} (including keeping the '''issue numbers''' rather than the title at the top, which I consider key), but separates the meta-info from the story info (which is headed by the title, as it should be. I would prefer to use separate infoboxen for separate stories on the same page, but you could have separate subsections for separate stories, each headed by the title, if it was thought desirable). - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 08:55, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I definitely agree with San here that the navigation info ''needs'' to be at the top. It's just counter-intuitive otherwise.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 12:15, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I like the idea of separate credit sections in the same infobox for separate stories in a single issue, with the titles of each story as the header; I was going to suggest that myself. We could always do a &quot;if/then&quot; clause so the extra section only shows up if one of the pertinent parameters is used. (I think stacking entire infoboxes might get a bit too cluttered, plus it's nice to see a whole issue's overview right at the top, but I'm willing to see a mockup if someone thinks that might work better.)<br /> ::I find myself wondering if continuity should be in the navigation somehow, as then we could potentially tag it as a separate prev/next series if need be. I know that I was reading the Axiom Nexus text stories, for instance, and there seems to be a lack of a good way to show how some stories relate to each other in terms of reading order when the actual publication order in the franchise it's released under has stuff in between. (The Shattered Glass stories at least had the ready excuse of being stuck under that franchise for the navigation...) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:01, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::''I like the idea of separate credit sections in the same infobox for separate stories in a single issue, with the titles of each story as the header; I was going to suggest that myself.''<br /> ::::Betcha weren't :p [Seriously, with the title up top out of the way, you couldn't do anything of the sort]<br /> ::::Anyhoo, the main reason I'm a bit reluctant to put multiple stories together in such a fashion is that it would seem to divorce the latter stories from the infobox with their credits. If they end up so close together that the infoboxen actually '''stack''' and push the info ''away'' from the story in question, put them together in one infobox by all means. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 20:39, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Betcha I was. Because hey, you could put the title of the issue at the top (or not, if the issue doesn't actually have a title), and the title of the individual stories in the credit sections. It's funny how that works. :D<br /> :::::And, like I said, if someone can do a mockup of dual infoboxes that doesn't look silly, I could buy it. As it is, I just think it'd be weird basically having two separate pages on one page. I like the idea of the infobox itself being devoted to the comic issue as a whole. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:01, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::I am uncomfortable with the &quot;dual navigation&quot; system simply because... some of these stories have now been published 3 or '''4''' times. No previous/next for them? They don't get credits or publication dates? What if I '''want''' to know when IDW published an issue of &quot;Prey,&quot; how many parts of that story they published (IDW doubled up content from 2 UK issues) or anything else important?<br /> :::We're just tossing aside republishing info because our template doesn't support it. Same problem with the dates being left off multi-part stories... if it's nto clear how to add the information, the information becomes lost. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:40, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Isn't the point of the '&quot;dual-navigation&quot; system' to record '''contemporaneous''' republication? [Marvel US in Marvel UK/Marvel G2 in Fleetway G2/IDW Beast Wars &amp; AHM in Titan TF (...actually we don't currently do that last set, although we should)/etc]. That is, we wouldn't record an IDW &quot;Best of the UK&quot; as such even if it was the first such reprinting, because it was twenty years later?<br /> ::::If you try to fit ''four'' sets of data in one poor infobox, it would become unmanageably and unreadably large. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 20:39, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::I don't disagree.<br /> :::::Speaking of... right now our navigation at the top of such boxes is (in theory) publication order... but with a weird mix-in of reading order too.<br /> :::::Should it become one or the other? And which is of primary importance? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:32, 21 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::...Didn't I more or less say that a few comments above? I think maybe we should have both... the main navigation(s) being publication order, then a third &quot;continuity&quot; section with a link to the issue's continuity and the prev/next reflecting proper reading order. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 06:12, 21 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::The thing about THAT idea is that the issue doesn't necessarily reflect the continuity if you want one infobox per page - take the AHM &quot;coda&quot; issues, or the Animated ''Arrival'' issues as examples, since they have multiple stories on one page. There's no one continuity place for those issues, since they're anthologies which take place out of order. You'd have to do the continuity nav at the ''story'' level, rather than the issue level. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 13:52, 21 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> I've started work on fleshing out changes at {{tl|Comicstory beta}} (relevant: [[Template:Comicstory beta/Example]]), but there's one major bit that I'm not sure how to deal with - Editors. Sometimes, editors work on the story level (to the point you could have separate editorial teams working on the different stories in the same issue, although I'm not aware of any TF examples off the top of my head), but sometimes they work at the issue level, overseeing a load of non-story content in addition to any stories in the issue (the latter's more common in the UK - US comics tend to have a letters page at most for non-story content). And so I'm having trouble placing where the various editorial credits should go - I've bunged them under a separate &quot;Editorial&quot; header temporarily, but I'm not happy with that - I want them under the story, or under the Publication info... - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 14:00, 21 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> {{--}}<br /> <br /> ===CSS rationalization===<br /> While discussing rewriting our HTML... we should also probably discuss CSS rationalization.<br /> <br /> Right now our code has absolutely no regard for what the page looks like printed. (Those messageboxes at the top of pages probably don't need to be there when printed.) Do we want our links to have addresses when printed? For example, I believe CSS could make [[Optimus Prime (G1)|this link]] print like &lt;u&gt;this link&lt;/u&gt; (&quot;Optimue Prime (G1)&quot;) or like &lt;u&gt;this link&lt;/u&gt; ( http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Optimus_Prime_(G1) ) or like &lt;u&gt;this link&lt;/u&gt; ( tfwiki.net/wiki/Optimus_Prime_(G1) ), any of which would be 'friendlier' for printed-out versions.<br /> <br /> Of course, if this was applied to excessively [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PotHole PotHole'd] articles, the text it might become almost unreadable. Perhaps smaller or faded text would make &lt;u&gt;tooting my own horn&lt;/u&gt; &lt;span style=&quot;font-size:65%;<br /> color:#666;&quot;&gt;User:Derik&lt;/span&gt; less obtrusive when printed. Regardless what's decided for article text, I strongly believe that ''storylinks'' should have the disambig visible when printing. &lt;span style=&quot;font-size:10px;background-color:#ececec;border-width: 0 1px 0 1px;border-style:solid;padding: 0 5px 0 5px;border-color:#cccccc;color:#666;&quot; class=&quot;tt1_nowrap&quot;&gt;King of the Hill (Armada episode)&lt;/span&gt;<br /> <br /> Printing, I grant you, is a fairly minor concern. But what about syndication? A few people are beginning to [http://www.botchthecrab.com/archive/history.asp dynamically syndicate] our content. Botch went to some trouble to remove our messageboxes and various other elements-- he just wanted the guts of the article. If we'd attached standard classes to templates (ones that have '''no CSS''' associated with them as far as TFWiki is concerned) he could have just syndicated the page as-is and hidden those elements with a few lines of CSS! (If nothing else, the storylinks need a class marking them... that seems like something that many would like to hide.)<br /> <br /> Live page syndication is clumsy. (And I need to yell at Botch, because IIRC he's doing his in a terrible way, from our server's perspective.) But if we ''encourage'' it, it's another tool in our promotional quiver! (There was a PHP script I was working on the other month that actually has some ''fairly good'' TFWiki-specific syndication. If that was polished and made easy to use, it could have some legs.)<br /> <br /> Soto-voice snark aside-- we really need classed like ''.noPrint'' and ''.printOnly.'' And when we redo our episode/issue infoboxes... the tables should be tested to they print nicely, '''and''' we should publish the CSS people can use to turn various 'bits off. (Or a 'general guide to site CSS', if only for our OWN use.)<br /> <br /> How about this...? We've been moving a LOT of our code out of HTML and into CSS. One of the effects of this is that simply syndicating [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Package_art&amp;action=render the &quot;rendered&quot; page]... a lot of the HTML layouts are gobbeltygook. Should we have a consideration for syndicators who don't include our CSS file? Maybe templates we know are unlikely to be wanted can be flagged with a ''.noSyndicate'' class, making it easy to hide them? Or we should have a Syndicate.css file that includes the bare-minimum CSS code for templates to lay out right? Should ''some'' templates (&lt;nowiki&gt;{{quote}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;, for instance) be rewritten so that they will render in a readable (if not ideal) fashion even if no css is included? Is there a &quot;scale&quot; these questions all fall on... a sort of &quot;how important is this element to the content of the page?&quot; spectum, where at the low end we don't care and tell people to hide it, at the middle we provide identifying tags so they can be hidden, or a truncated CSS file so they render nice, and at the high end we write the HTML so the element will always be readable even without CSS to make it pretty? (That last one means code that's less contextual. Where do our priorities lie?)<br /> <br /> These are philosophical issues. None are especially high priority, but the &quot;cost&quot; of addressing them is relatively tiny, so if we're doing some thorough redesigning... it'd be a good idea.<br /> <br /> Some elements we have (like main pages) sometimes get quite &quot;big&quot; (laid out in a fashion that accepts a minimum of 500+ pixels wide.) Is it worth adding a ''.bigElement'' class or a ''.mobile'' class so that those elements can have code written in a mobile device CSS file that reduces their size? Is this even a concern for new mobile devices, which scale easily? How to Kindles handle them? Do e-readers support javascript? What about tablets and wireless internet devices?<br /> <br /> More and more, content on the internet is going to be viewed by something other than what we normally think of as a &quot;web browser,&quot; and because web-''developers'' spend all their time in web browsers they often neglect these outlets. We do not have to bend over backward to accommodate these technologies... if problems do arise, they will probably be the 90/10 sort; 90% of the solution/benefit can be accomplished with just 10% of the effort.&lt;br/&gt;'''Example:''' When [http://tformers.com a certain news site] rolled out their home page redesign several years ago, it mis-rendered on some versions of Safari-- pushing the story content below the left navigation bar. In short... the page appeared '''blank'''. This problem remained unfixed for almost a year-- it was caused by the nav rendering just ''one'' pixel too wide, pushing a floated layout down. This remained unfixed for almost a year. I'm sure that this bug only affected maybe 1% of site visitors. But after a year of blank pages... that 1% also probably '''stopped visiting'''. 1% over the course of a year is a ''lot'' of lost pageviews, it's like having your site be down for 3 days.<br /> <br /> Anyway... that's my rant. There's no solutions there... just ideas/concerns/meta.<br /> <br /> If other people are interested in discussing this sort of thing... may I suggest we create a dumping ground at [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Quantum Cycle Upgrade]] where we can gather thoughts/issues about long-term infrastructure upgrades? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:35, 8 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Picking up on just one thing for now:<br /> ::''Those messageboxes at the top of pages probably don't need to be there when printed''<br /> :Thing about that is that they DO contain information you might want when printed that isn't contained elsewhere on a page (the writer of a story, for instance).<br /> :I could certainly see a certain degree of stripping down the messageboxen for printing as a good idea (take a look at http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=End_of_the_Road!_(US)&amp;printable=yes - it's not even just the {{tl|comicstory}} [which has become a bad name for that template as its' uses have multiplied...] box - the {{tl|featuredcharacters}} box further down could do with being stripped for print. And I'm not sure the {{tl|disambig2}} needs to be visible at all.), but I'm not sure about hiding them by default. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 22:15, 8 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I agree about stripping those kinds of things down... but when I said &quot;messageboxes&quot; I meant things like &quot;picsneeded&quot;; those have an ''enormous'' footprint, and they print. Their ''entire purpose'' is to alert editors of page deficiencies.... but people reading print-outs aren't editing those the pages, it's pointless. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:32, 8 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Ah. I wasn't thinking of those, just {{tl|comicstory}} and {{tl|episode}}. Yeah, removing {{tl|picsneeded}} and its ilk would make sense. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 10:20, 9 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == &quot;(Marvel Comics)&quot; or &quot;(Marvel comic)&quot; ==<br /> <br /> *[[The Transformers (Marvel comic)]] (Jackpot moved it in June on the basis of &quot;Consistency with how we treat other parenthetical comic-company names, such as &quot;(Dreamwave comic)&quot; instead of &quot;(Dreamwave Productions)&quot;)<br /> *[[Generation 2 (Marvel Comics)]] (Interrobang ''just got the (Marvel comic) redirect deleted'' on one of his rampages)<br /> *[[Transformers Universe (Marvel comic)]] (appears to have always been here)<br /> *[[Transformers: The Movie (Marvel Comics)]]<br /> <br /> Would it be too much to suggest that we '''pick one and stick with it'''? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 08:43, 7 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Oh, not to mention Marvel UK's [[Collected Comics (Marvel)]], nor the characters [[Decepticon medic (Marvel Comics)]] and [[Jose (Marvel Comics)]]. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 08:54, 7 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::[[Talk:The Transformers (Marvel comic)#(Marvel Comics) vs. (Marvel comic)|The last discussion]] kind of stalled on the question of whether or not to have &quot;Comics&quot;/&quot;comic&quot; at all. Technically speaking, &quot;(Marvel)&quot; does the job. Before, I was favoring &quot;(Marvel comic)&quot;, but I think now I'm leaning towards just &quot;(Marvel)&quot; because seriously, parentheticals should be as short as possible. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 09:24, 7 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::[[Marvel Productions]] - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 10:27, 8 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Considering that Marvel Productions was apparently a child company of Marvel Comics, I don't see that as a problem. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:19, 8 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Marvel Productions (now defunct) relates to the '''cartoon'''. Marvel Comics (obviously) relates to the comics. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 10:25, 9 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Considering that any Marvel Comics-specific concept or character is either going to have the Comicnav template or some form of &quot;Marvel Comics continuity&quot; on the page... I ''still'' don't see a problem. Anything that comes from the cartoon is going to be just (G1) or say &quot;cartoon continuity&quot; since Sunbow is always the main company known for cartoon stuff. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:09, 9 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :&quot;Rampages&quot;? Really, now. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 20:08, 8 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I hereby dub thee a &quot;Deckchair Rampage&quot;! Hurrah, we now hast a term by which to call it! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:43, 8 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Talk page &quot;dead link&quot; removal ==<br /> <br /> Can I ask what is behind the mass removal of &quot;dead links&quot; on talk pages? Does having &quot;dead links&quot; on talk pages mess something up? I'm just curious. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:15, 8 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Well, for one thing, dead links that are not meant to link pages do somewhat pollute the &quot;Wanted pages&quot; index. --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] 16:45, 8 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Oh. I'm surprised talk page links show up on &quot;wanted pages.&quot; - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:58, 8 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Images for deletion ==<br /> <br /> [[User:Interrobang|Interrobang]] has marked a pile of unused images for deletion. Some of them, I suspect, are unused because of the Bookworm crash, like the pictures of Lipoles. I've made a start on some of them, but if anyone wants to pitch in and fix up some of the images we should keep, be my guest! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 07:59, 12 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :True, part of them are, um, &quot;victims&quot;(sort of) of the Bookworm crash, such as [[:Image:Convoy BT.jpg]] and several others. I think those pictures should be hold and got checked/salvage for a while before being deleted. I've check the [[:Category:To be deleted]], but I can only recognize a few. People can check their watch list or Category:To be deleted to help ID those pictures they(users) know where they(pictures) belong to. --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 08:26, 12 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I've noticed that several of them aren't &quot;unused&quot; per se--they're not used as images anywhere, but they're still wikilinked to. For example, [[:Image:Fat guard.JPG]] says &quot;There are no pages that link to this file&quot;, but if you check &quot;What links here&quot;, you'll see that [[Capture the Cube]] does in fact link to it. So before anyone deletes any images, I suggest checking if anything is wikilinking to them first. --[[User:Apoc|Apoc]] 08:42, 12 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Yeah, I noticed a while back that the section under the image that lists pages which link to it only includes pages where the image is actually embedded. Plus some images are used in the site skin or CSS files, like the logos [[User:Derik|Derik]] set up to appear after links to certain sites. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:30, 12 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Are we intending to resurrect the community-nav template? The images used on it were among those tagged for deletion... --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:11, 14 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I'll take that as a no. And down to 150 pictures now. Again, if anyone wants to take a look through [[:Category:To be deleted]] in case anything they recognise where the images are supposed to go, please do! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 08:16, 16 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Down to 76 images. Most of those left were uploaded during the crash period, so any information about where they were intended to go is lost. Some of them, like Mugheads.jpg, are from lost talk pages. Some, like Tflive_logo_stacked.jpg, might be still useful for something. The two covers for The Ark II probably should be on the appropriate page. Some, like Mort-icons.png and Tf gf 002 back.jpg, I don't have the foggiest what they were intended for... --[[User:Abates|abates]] 23:23, 19 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Wikicode problems ==<br /> <br /> I've noticed that a &quot;=&quot; (equals sign) in a URL linked as a source in a quote tag results in the entire source section not being displayed in the article. Example:<br /> {{quote|I told them that I would literally commit suicide if they made an action figure of me. I will kill myself.|Megan Fox, [http://enewsi.com/news.php?itemid=13816 Entertainment News International].}}<br /> I fiddled around with the URL and nailed the source of the problem down to the &quot;=&quot;. Is this problem common knowledge?--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 09:15, 13 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> : Been toying around my userpage.<br /> : Check it out:<br /> : &lt;pre&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{factions|former|decepticon}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/pre&gt;<br /> : &quot;former&quot; (or whatever you write) is shown.<br /> : &lt;pre&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{factions|=former|decepticon}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/pre&gt;<br /> : &quot;=&quot; renders the text invisible.<br /> <br /> : seems like &quot;=&quot; affects templates.<br /> <br /> : hah. funny. -- [[User:Silver|Silvery]] 10:55, 13 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> : '''EDIT:''' I'm so dumb... &quot;=&quot; is one of parameters used in templates. [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Template] -- [[User:Silver|Silvery]] 11:03, 13 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Is there any way to solve that problem? &quot;=&quot; appears in quite a few URLs.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 11:26, 13 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::As Silver surmised, it's down to the equals being a template parameter.<br /> :::Your options are:<br /> :::#Escape the &quot;=&quot; as &amp;amp;#61; - [http://enewsi.com/news.php?itemid&amp;#61;13816 Entertainment News International]<br /> :::#Feed it through a URL shortener like TinyURL or bit.ly - [http://tinyurl.com/p36l6q Entertainment News International]<br /> i.e.:<br /> {{quote|I told them that I would literally commit suicide if they made an action figure of me. I will kill myself.|Megan Fox, [http://enewsi.com/news.php?itemid&amp;#61;13816 Entertainment News International].}}<br /> :::- [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 11:36, 13 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Just add a &quot;2=&quot; to the code: &lt;nowiki&gt;{{quote|Blahblah|2=Megan Fox, [http://enewsi.com/news.php?itemid=13816 Entertainment News International].}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;<br /> {{quote|Blahblah|2=Megan Fox, [http://enewsi.com/news.php?itemid=13816 Entertainment News International].}}<br /> ::::[[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 14:37, 13 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == &quot;Murder&quot; Category II ==<br /> <br /> For some reason, it automatically deletes itself when I try to create it.<br /> <br /> <br /> Weird. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 09:43, 13 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I'm pretty shore it's not supposed to be created, just like the things that don't exist category. [[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 06:38, 16 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::The Things that don't exist doesn't automatically delete itself. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 07:19, 16 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I know but those two categories are not to be created it's part of the joke. [[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 14:29, 16 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Sourcing statements ==<br /> <br /> I've recently dealt with a bunch of articles where statements were either entirely unsourced, or just broadly attributed to a source without more specific details (such as, just naming a magazine without stating the volume, issue number, date, page number etc., or not linking the online article/interview). I've spent quite some time tracking down the sources and then fixed the statements to better reflect ''what is actually said in those sources''. Basically, someone read a magazine interview and then added some trivia bits from memory, that kind of thing.<br /> <br /> Should we have a more rigid mandate that statements should credit sources? I'm not talking Wikipedia-esque anal-retentive &quot;author name, title of article, date of publication, date of accessing&quot; details and sources for general knowledge stuff such as &quot;Devastator has a Supreme Class toy in the ROTF toyline&quot;. But anything that is definitely based on a single source should better be followed by a footnote. Especially since a lot of these unsourced statements eventually turn out to be urban myths.<br /> <br /> Should we make this a mandate, and if yes, how should we enforce it?--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 14:25, 13 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :It [[Help:Citing sources|already is a mandate]], [[Help:Style guide#Cite sources|technically speaking]]. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:34, 13 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::That's more of a style guide rather than an actual rule, though. My thought is something similar to what (at least the German version of) Wikipedia does: When you click &quot;submit&quot;, you're shown a warning that asks you to make sure you have sourced your statements. It's not too obtrusive (clicking &quot;submit&quot; a second time will submit your text anyway), but it does drive home the point.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 15:19, 13 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Our style guides ''are'' rules, pretty much. And that one at least is definitely a specific policy. If we had to mandate every single rule we had before every edit, the Submit screen would have a sea of text. The best we can do is try to encourage newbies to actually read our Help and Policy pages. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 15:26, 13 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == This Day in Transformers History ==<br /> We should try to turn the This Day in Transformers History into an exportable module, like our Go-Boxes. It'll help our SEO by encouraging links back to us as well as give us another source of dynamically-generated deep links to help users discover our content. We have info for all 366 days, we should exploit it. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 15:46, 16 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Speaking of history, today is the 25th anniversary of the premiere of the G1 cartoon right? Want to mention that anywhere? --[[User:SuzyP|SuzyP]] 18:35, 17 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Boxes gone from disambig templates? ==<br /> <br /> I noticed the disambiguation templates don't seem to have those gray boxes behind them anymore. Is this intentional? Because it's confusing. -[[User:Mazenoise|Mazenoise]] 08:16, 17 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Derik shifted the CSS styling into the stylesheet. Your browser probably had the old stylesheet cached, but a shift-reload should fix it. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 08:20, 17 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Yeah, it did actually. Thanks! -[[User:Mazenoise|Mazenoise]] 08:29, 17 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> And they (well, the ones Derik hit anyway) sprouted a thick grey left border in the transition because...? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 11:34, 17 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I forget the reason. Rest assured that it did make sense though!<br /> :Main advantage of switching the disambig boxes to CSS: When you have multiple in a row, they stack prettier without a double-outline between them. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:47, 17 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::''I forget the reason. Rest assured that it did make sense though!''<br /> ::If that's not a Derikism, it deserves to be. (And is the main reason why I'm scared of changing to external CSS rather than inline CSS - you having the keys to the styles virtually unfettered, since those admins who could either override or yank the emopanda CSS mostly either don't know how or are absent much of the time)<br /> ::So now we have disambig templates that are unique amongst messageboxen in a particularly... nondescript way. Different enough to be irritating, not different enough to serve any real purpose. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:09, 17 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Eh? Oh, I thought I changed it back. (I remembered why they had a border on the left... I was testing something and decided it didn't work, I didn't realize it was still on.)<br /> :::In theory Scout was going to make some changes last week to move us out of the existing CSS situation with much less living in my dev file... but she seems to have forgotten... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:24, 17 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::What was she planning to do? I can have a crack at it. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:29, 17 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Move a bunch of stuff to [[MediaWiki:common.css]], I expect.<br /> :::::(Note the difference between Common.css [all skins, including the ones no-one uses like Simple and MySkin], Monacobook.css [Monacobook only] and Monobook.css [Monobook only]. Scout [[User_talk:Suki_Brits#.22Fixed.22_Monobook|forgot about Monobook]] the last time common.css was edited. Incidentally, where did she ultimately put those changes? They ain't in the empty Monacobook.css.) - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:44, 17 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::I have a suspicion that the plan may be to create a new user class with rights to edit css files here (in which case I don't have the necessary access rights to do so)... --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:59, 17 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::That was the one. :) Either she forgot, or she tried and it didn't work. I'll bug her when I remember. (It's not like it's pressing... it's been needing doing for some time so it can wait a bit longer.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:33, 17 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::And to answer the css question, the changes are in [http://tfwiki.net/w2/skins/monacobook/tt1.css this file] which isn't editable through the Mediawiki interface. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 00:03, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::&quot;Scout, I have 3 requests.&quot;<br /> :::::::&quot;No, no, yes if I don't have to do any work.&quot;<br /> :::::::-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:51, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Guess what..... ==<br /> <br /> I've just decided to check our statistics for no apparent reason, and we have 9,588 &quot;legitimate content pages&quot;, whatever that means. So then I randomly decided to check out the Wikia page (which, by the way, has had the same Featured Article for God-knows-how-long), and guess what?<br /> <br /> 7,209 pages. We're beating them out by 2,349 pages, which is quite a lot. Who thinks we can hit 10,000 soon? --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:15, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :No problem. ...though it's about quality, not quantity. ;) -- [[User:Silver|Silvery]] 15:24, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I can tell you the quality of their articles as well.<br /> ::Nonexistent. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:29, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Oh, you're too harsh. Anyways, I know this wiki's the best 'cause I checked all TF wikis before I've decided to join... -- [[User:Silver|Silvery]] 15:45, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I can personally testify, we ''delete'' articles that aren't up to snuff and don't look like they're going to be.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 15:36, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Now I'm interest in knowing how many articles the original wiki had back before the big split. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 15:57, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Somewhere around [[Transformers_Wiki_talk:Community_Portal/Arriving#A_spirit_of_healthy_competition|6890 or so]]. I should note that our current total is artificially inflated by about 75 due to the &quot;ghost&quot; pages causing the macron issue, so our total's nearer 9513 or so. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 20:36, 18 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::@Silvery: I'm not being that harsh. Here's some examples. And I know, this will give them slightly more traffic.<br /> :::[http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Soundwave_(Movie) Their ROTF Soundwave page.]<br /> :::[http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/All_Hail_Megatron Their All Hail Megatron page. Count the red links.] --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 02:53, 19 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::You're too harsh in a &quot;hit 'em when they're down&quot; sense. It's called &quot;irony&quot;. :P -- [[User:Silver|Silvery]] 04:11, 19 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::I get a bit of personal pride whenever I compare our Shattered Glass section to theirs. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 06:11, 19 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::I weep whenever i read the Animated articles...Sentinel Prime's page is the best example.--[[User:Sunjumper|Sunjumper]] 15:00, 22 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::I just removed an ''{ongoing}'' tag from their Animated Perceptor's page. What the hell? --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:08, 22 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Also, for some reason, someone back there REALLY liked deleting my stuff. They liked it so much in fact, that my contributions page has been wiped clean. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 07:23, 23 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::Also, Monaco now screws up page layouts when you move mainpics to where they're meant to be! (That's what it does on another wiki I happen to be an admin on, anyway.) Woo-freakin'-hoo. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 07:37, 23 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :[[Image:What was wikia thinking.PNG|300px|thumb|Wikia, ''seriously?'']]<br /> :Look at the image, and be confused as to why anyone would want to see the ads? --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 13:36, 25 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::That option was actually put in due to user feedback. It's so they can view pages with the ads still in place and modify the layout to not look like ass.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 14:17, 25 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::I just checked their Shattered Glass (comic) page, and hell, they've not even added Soundwave, Rumble, Long Haul...I also feel a bit of pride since I uploaded the images and started writing most of those :) --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 20:00, 25 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> {{-}}<br /> <br /> == Reading Order ==<br /> When the wiki began in 2006, reading order was a clear and obvious thing. It was straight publication order-- and even if broken up into minis like Dreamwave did, they followwed a logical &quot;volume&quot; order.<br /> <br /> ...IDW is nowwhere near that clean. Characters literally leave one aeries, appear in another, bunches of stories are interwoven. I think we should consider creating an IDW &quot;reading order&quot; page, simply because reading order is not the same as publication order, is not the same as chronological order. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 04:41, 19 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :[[User:Jackpot/Sandbox/IDW-G1 recommended reading order]] :3 --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 06:10, 19 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == OK.....weird. ==<br /> <br /> Did someone *looks at Derik* break the block log, or is it meant to only show blocks up to March this year? --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 13:14, 22 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Also, how didn't I get an edit conflict when Jimsorenson and I were trying to delete the same duplicate section at the same time?<br /> :Derik, please don't break the wiki. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 13:16, 22 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Think back to what happened in March.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 13:23, 22 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Oh yeah.<br /> :::STUPID BOOKWORM! *scream is heard across the world* --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 13:27, 22 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Yeah, not everything is Derik's fault. On the other hand, many awesome improvements to the site ''are''.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 13:56, 22 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::I may have been reading a bit too much Community Portal Archives recently. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:23, 22 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Derik breaking things is generally content, template, or presentational related-- despite all the joking, I have only ever broken the core of the site itself once. (And even then, it was for less than 10 minutes, Siph was nice enough to delete the page that was giving the site's database epileptic fits.)<br /> ::::::I'm actually rather ''proud'' of that one-- insofar that it was ''supposed'' to be completely impossible, but I somehow managed to do it! (This was back on Bookworm, I suspect their server bog-down issues contributed to making my impossible feat happen.)<br /> ::::::When I break stuff it tends to be more localized or cosmetic. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:46, 22 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Speaking of local/cosmetic issues, the automatic archive listing on this page does not appear to want to display archive 39.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 14:48, 22 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::The one that doesn't exist yet? <br /> ::::::::Also, [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive29#So.2C_Derik_broke_the_site.|This]] is incredibly funny. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:04, 22 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::Oh, it most definitely exists. Click on archive 38, then use the archive navigation at the top to go to the next archive. 39 is already populated.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 15:09, 22 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::Vote to move that page to &quot;Things that don't exist&quot;. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 15:19, 22 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::That might be because the nav you're referring to isn't automatic. Just the ones in the individual archives. - {{unsigned|Derik| - who thought there actually were five lights in that TNG ep :p}} 16:03, 22 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Something I just came up with..... ==<br /> <br /> Because I absolutely loathe our current ''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{caption bastard}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' tag, I came up with this.<br /> <br /> <br /> {{messagebox<br /> |justification=left<br /> |header=Your humour escapes me, Starscream.<br /> |message_text=If you haven't contributed anything, we'd really rather you didn't simply change jokes or add new ones without adding actual content. This also holds true for removing captions whole-hog or replacing them with &quot;information&quot; that really isn't.<br /> Write an episode summary, check out the Most Wanted Pages list or the Stubs list. <br /> <br /> For further information, see: [[Project:Caption]].<br /> <br /> |image_name=G1toon_starscream_bawled_out.jpg<br /> |image_width=125px<br /> |mouseover=<br /> |width=100%<br /> }}<br /> <br /> --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:03, 24 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Tough. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 12:51, 24 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :You're pretty obsessed with caption edits.[[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 12:57, 24 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I was very bored that day. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 01:50, 25 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> {{messagebox<br /> |justification=center<br /> |header=Your humour escapes me, Starscream.<br /> |message_text=If you haven't contributed anything, we'd really rather you didn't simply change jokes or add new ones without adding actual content. This also holds true for removing captions whole-hog or replacing them with &quot;information&quot; that really isn't.<br /> Write an episode summary, check out the [[Special:Wantedpages|Most Wanted Pages]] list or the [[:Category:Stub|Stubs]] list.&lt;br&gt;<br /> :''For further information, see: [[Project:Caption]].''<br /> |image_name=G1toon_starscream_bawled_out.jpg<br /> |image_width=125px<br /> |mouseover=<br /> |width=100%<br /> |bottomtext={{{1|}}}<br /> }}<br /> :Just a minor layout change. :D --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 09:35, 25 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Well it definitely looks better now. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:39, 25 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Keep an Eagle Eye (ROTF) ==<br /> <br /> I notice that the first DVD-rips of ROTF have begun to drop-- 3 weeks before the movie is out on DVD. Be wary of a flurry of new screencaps appearing. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:20, 26 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == TF Wiki link forum signatures = spam = loss of google ranking? ==<br /> <br /> Somebody on a Macross forum reported that posting links to their website via forum signatures counted as spam, which took a major hit in their site's google ranking, and it was the same for Digg linking. Since I'm not that net savvy, I'm waiting for the guy to provide more info about this, but we should probably discuss it here anyway: To our more tech and net-experienced members - does linking to our wiki via our forum signatures (as suggested and encouraged by our staff during the move last year) actually count as spam in Google's eyes and hurt our search ranking? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:04, 27 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> :No. The worst that Google would do would be to ignore the links for the purposes of ranking. If Google ''did'' demote sites based on forum signatures, people would start putting links to their competitor's sites in their signatures. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:23, 27 September 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == WTF? ==<br /> <br /> Why does [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive11|Archive 11]] even exist? --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 12:35, 1 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Obscure BW comic, anyone? ==<br /> <br /> Alright for the past while now, I've been looking up and adding in obscure Beast Wars products. I remembered both the Mutating Card Game and both Jigsaw Puzzles, and I've already taken note to add those in. But one piece of memorabilia that has still eluded me is a really old comic... My memory's a bit fuzzy on this one, and I can't quite recall if it was a seperate mini-comic from the two-pack of &quot;Optimus vs. Megatron!&quot; or if the scenes I'm remembering are part of that comic as well.<br /> The only scenes I recall from said comic are the opening, where a pre-earth mode Cheetor peeks through some vegetation to reveal a (very small) crystal. The subsequent dialog explained that they had to take on beast modes to overcome the toxic radiation of the crystal (much like the tv show).<br /> Anyone has any similar recollection? Or if anyone has scans of the &quot;Optimus vs. Megatron!&quot; mini-comic to clear up wether or not it is a scene from that comic that I'm remembering, I'd appreciate it. In any case, I hope I'm not going crazy and remembering a comic that doesn't exist, because as far as I can tell, it's not listed on the Beast Wars comics page. Thanks --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] 14:23, 3 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :It's not the &quot;Optimus Primal Vs. Megatron!&quot; comic, that one starts with Primal(in beast mode) flying in the sky, and then Cheetor running in the dark with a glow in his eyes. Unless you mistake the sparkle in his eyes for a crystal, it's not the same comic.--[[User:Sunjumper|Sunjumper]] 13:41, 5 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Categories for modes? ==<br /> <br /> I've been trying to find out which transformer one of my old toys is, and I'd hoped I could compare it against each of the transformers with an aeroplane mode - but I couldn't find such a list. So I wondered whether it would be a good idea to have categories for the transformers' modes, so I could go to [[:Category:Aeroplanes]] and look it up like that. Good idea? I'm not volunteering to do the legwork :-) [[Special:Contributions/86.7.22.40|86.7.22.40]] 06:50, 5 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :[http://tfu.info/ID/index.htm This external link] might help. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 09:56, 5 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == &quot;Notes&quot; ==<br /> When did we start changing all the &quot;Trivia&quot; subheaders to &quot;Notes&quot;? ...And why even bother?--[[User:MCRG Again|MCRG Again]] 20:17, 6 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Someone stated that they hated the header &quot;Trivia&quot; as it made the info seem inconsequential when sometimes it was actually useful/relevant, and those of us who thought they had a point started going along with that thought. (Although much to my annoyance I don't recall off-hand who said it or where, other than I think maybe it was on one of the Shattered Glass articles.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 20:34, 6 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::It becomes irritating to me since &quot;Notes&quot; was solely confined to the comics and media articles and &quot;Trivia&quot; was confined to character and toy pages, so now we've got a bunch of random character pages with a &quot;Notes&quot; section (Hot Rod character page, for instance) and others with a &quot;Trivia&quot; section (Hot Rod toy page, for instance) for no particular reason. It looks sloppy and I have no idea whether I should be trying to track down and reset the headings to one or the other or if I'll get warned for it.--[[User:MCRG Again|MCRG Again]] 23:32, 6 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::&quot;Someone&quot; was probably me. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 00:16, 7 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Yeah, you're our resident cruft inquisition!--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 00:18, 7 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::I think some page's contents in the Trivia sections is, um, mixed up with notes (relevant but can't be put in other section) and trivia (a little irrelevant BUT notable) things. So, maybe page like this would still need a trivia section, that is, separate their Trivia section into Trivia and Notes section. Of course, that may involve subjective view of the users who edit the page.--'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 21:19, 7 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::::So are we going to decide on some form of consistent change or just use the two words randomly?--[[User:MCRG Again|MCRG Again]] 02:31, 7 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::I've been changing pages to &quot;Notes&quot; as I work them. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 12:34, 7 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::It'd also be a fairly easy bot request.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 13:38, 7 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::Easy as long as you have a full list of the pages on the wiki. --[[User:-Blackout-|-Blackout-]] 14:39, 7 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::It's not as simple as it might appear - we have [[More than Meets the Eye, Part 1|episode pages]] with Notes sections with Trivia subsections, so the bot would have to take that into account (and a blanket change of #Trivia anchors wouldn't be possible because some will be legitimately pointing to those Trivia sections). --[[User:Abates|abates]] 15:56, 7 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::In the case of the bot request I made, I specifically said to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;==Trivia==&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;==Notes==&lt;/nowiki&gt;. The pages you reference have &lt;nowiki&gt;===Trivia===&lt;/nowiki&gt;, which should be possible to exclude in a search.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 16:54, 7 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Preventing direct image linking ==<br /> <br /> As we know, the wiki costs a fair bit to run and early on in our post Bookworm crash server move, it used more bandwidth than our bosses calculated, so the last thing we need is people going around directly linking images off of our server for forums or even their blogs or whatever (The [[Mountain Dew Robot]]s logo was one of our most popular articles... because some idiot linked the image to his website). Is there any way for us to prevent this? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 11:54, 9 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Yes and no.<br /> :Yes in the sense that it's pretty easy to create an .htaccess file that redirects hotlinks in some way.<br /> :No in the sense that it might break the GoBoxes, if there isn't some way to make it so that the rewrite rules allow just the GoBox images to be hotlinked. Hrm. Although I think the GoBoxes are all PNGs, and we have very few PNGs as normal images, so it might not be ''that'' big a workaround problem. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:40, 9 October 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Well, all the gobox images are in their own folder anyway, so it's simple enough to exclude them. This is probably a REALLY good idea; somebody give me a suitable (and tiny) replacement image and I'll try to make it so. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 08:45, 11 October 2009 (EDT)</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki_talk:Community_Portal&diff=342168 2009-08-04T07:25:12Z

<p>Suki Brits: /* Did anything happen? */</p> <hr /> <div>__NEWSECTIONLINK__<br /> <br /> This is the place for discussion of topics that affect the entire wiki. Some topics that would ordinarily be here have merited their own pages:<br /> <br /> '''The move away from Wikia:'''<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki:Community Portal/Complaints]]<br /> <br /> '''Our policy on having ads in the wiki:'''<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki:Ads]]<br /> <br /> '''The Bookworm database-crash:'''<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central]]<br /> * [[Project:Bookworm Crash]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving2]]<br /> <br /> '''The server move:'''<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving2]]<br /> <br /> '''Relicensing discussion:'''<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Relicensing]]<br /> <br /> {{chapters<br /> |title=Community Portal Archives<br /> |content=*[[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive1|Archive 1]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive2|Archive 2]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive3|Archive 3]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive4|Archive 4]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive5|Archive 5]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive6|Archive 6]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive7|Archive 7]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive8|Archive 8]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive9|Archive 9]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive10|Archive 10]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive11|Archive 11]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive12|Archive 12]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive13|Archive 13]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive14|Archive 14]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive15|Archive 15]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive16|Archive 16]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive17|Archive 17]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive18|Archive 18]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive19|Archive 19]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive20|Archive 20]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive21|Archive 21]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive22|Archive 22]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive23|Archive 23]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive24|Archive 24]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive25|Archive 25]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive26|Archive 26]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive27|Archive 27]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive28|Archive 28]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive29|Archive 29]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive30|Archive 30]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive31|Archive 31]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive32|Archive 32]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive33|Archive 33]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive34|Archive 34]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> == Possible Relicensing? ==<br /> <br /> {{main|Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Relicensing}}<br /> <br /> == Asking for permission to post links==<br /> I'm the current Bureaucrat at [http://ghostbusters.wikia.com Ghostbusters Wiki], and there was interest in placing links to articles on this wiki to Ghostbusters wiki articles, and likewise placing links on Ghostbusters wiki to articles relating to content which has been brought up. I don't know a great deal of your wikis past dealings, other than wikia apparently kept your old wiki's content when you moved. Anyways, the wiki would rather reference to your present wiki than the one currently at wikia. We are hoping you wouldn't mind the links to our characters on pages related to the [http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Race_with_the_Devil Race with the Devil] article. [http://ghostbusters.wikia.com/wiki/User:Devilmanozzy Devilmanozzy] 02:10, June 8, 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Can you give a few examples of articles on your wiki which would benefit from having links to this site? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 03:37, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::IIRC it's whatshername's assistants-- the ones from the Earthforce story (Running with the Devil?) that Wildman based on the RGB models.<br /> ::(I personally have no problem with the links. Though I think this guy added 'em once, misformatted, and they got reverted.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:06, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::That wasn't Nozzy but Liberal Noob, while not logged in. I told the original guy to take a step back and mind their P's and Q's before we start crosslinking, especially since it was an anonymous IP at the time. But yeah, he wants to crosslink with Race the Devil and Susan Hoffman.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 13:43, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Only direct link between the Ghostbusters Cartoon and the G1 Transformers cartoon is [[Frank Welker]] sounded like one of his TF roles when he voiced a ghost from time to time. I a am sorry for my wanton linking and it will not happen again. --[[User:Liberal Noob|Liberal Noob]] 22:57, 8 June 2009 (EDT) <br /> :::I meant which pages on the Ghostbusters wiki would benefit from having links on them to our wiki. I'm curious, because I regard myself as reasonably familiar with Ghostbusters, and I can't think offhand of any references to Transformers in it. Perhaps in one of the cartoons? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:55, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Thanks for the replies on this matter. A good user Liberal Noob had requested that I would more address this, apparently the mod needed to say something and form a partnership in order to have links posted related to one anothers material. To answer the question of what articles would be hyperlinked, I believe he was planning on linking to the animated pages for Peter Venkman, Egon Spengler, and Ray Stantz. Thats what I understand is being requested to being linked to.[[User:Devilmanozzy|Devilmanozzy]] 19:42, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::We're not wondering which pages on our wiki would link to your wiki. We were wondering which pages on your wiki would need to link to our wiki. We didn't know there ''were'' any Transformers references in any Ghostbusters media, and thus didn't know you'd need to link to us from your wiki. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:59, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::[[Race with the Devil]], [[Susan Hoffman]], [[Starscream's Ghost]], [[Horri-Bull]], and a few others. Links will be on is a article on [http://ghostbusters.wikia.com/wiki/Ghostbusters_Cameos Ghostbusters Cameos]. Note I believe that the section will be better built soon.[[User:Devilmanozzy|Devilmanozzy]] 20:21, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Seems like there's a few other connections in terms of voice actors ([[Tara Strong]], [[Frank Welker]], [[Maurice LaMarche]] etc) as well. I think linking between the two sites is a good idea. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 23:37, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::Yeah I had noticed that too as I looked around here the last few days. Never knew how much Ghostbusters and Transformers had in common.[[User:Devilmanozzy|Devilmanozzy]] 23:40, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::While I'm broadly in favour of this, could you maybe change &quot;[[Starscream's Ghost]]&quot; to &quot;[[Starscream (G1)|Starscream's ghost]]&quot; - I understand you want to keep the ghost theme going but the first is a link to an unrelated episode of the cartoon series, rather than the character himself. --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 07:02, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::OK Emvee, I fixed the link on the Ghostbusters wiki as you requested. Devilmanozzy, ''[[Star Wars]]'' also has a [[Darth Vader|lot in common]] with ''Transformers''. --[[User:Liberal Noob|Liberal Noob]] 14:52, 11 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::We know, we got named an official friend of Wookiepedia about a week into the [[Project: Bookworm Crash]]. If we hadn't been scrambling to pick up the pieces, our pages would probably reflect this more. (I assume we'll integrate more when Clone Wars starts up again, since we love to attention-whore ourselves that way.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:56, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::[http://www.therealeffingdeal.com/blog/dan-akroyd-ghostbusterhero/ Here is] an obscure crossover from [[The Real Effing Deal]]. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 00:09, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Quick Links? ==<br /> <br /> You know, now that I think about it, one thing Wikia actually did do right was having some &quot;Quick Links&quot; on the sidebar. I find myself missing being able to quickly get to the main continuities/series without having to search or click to the Main Page first. (Especially now that there's lots o' ROTF toys to keep tabs on...)<br /> <br /> Nothing extensive necessary; just one linkie thingy with a fly-out menu for our six main continuities and the full series list would probably work nicely. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 03:03, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I think notably M.Sipher *really* hated that because any time a cursor went within a parsec of the menu, it would pop out in an annoying manner. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:09, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Wasn't just Sipher - it drove me nuts too. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 09:09, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Well, in that case, maybe just an extra sidemenu then, kind of like the &quot;Campaign Navigation&quot; box on [http://trinsic.alienharmony.com/Main_Page this sidebar]? I just figured that a fly-out menu would save space, but an extra link sidebar would work for me too.<br /> :::But I'd definitely like something. As Abates points out below, we don't currently have any sidebar links for actually ''browsing''. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 12:47, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Could we make so that they're fly-out menus, but that they only fly-out if you actually click on the title? That would save room while avoiding things jumping out when you're waving the cursor around. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 22:11, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I think having a link on the sidebar for Revenge of the Fallen would be good too. While the Community portal and Recent Changes links are great for us Editors, they're not likely to be used much by casual visitors. We should be using the menu to draw attention to major articles. While I'm thinking about it, we could probably change the Main Page link to read &quot;Transformers Wiki&quot;... --[[User:Abates|abates]] 04:11, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Would anyone object if I went ahead and popped a link to [[Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen]] in the navigation menu? I'm thinking between &quot;Main Page&quot; and &quot;Community portal&quot;. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:44, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I'm not of the upper brass but given the increasing coverage of ROTF as we come down the wire, it'd make the most sense. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 19:00, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == We need a new adspace ==<br /> <br /> The TFwiki on our new server is doing super mega amounts of bandwidth! (Note I've broken up the OPtimus Prime (G1) page, because, dude, that thing was a monster.) So, uh, I think we need to add a new adspace. One that's *above* the fold, since the ones we have are shoved down in the corner where no one can see them. What advertiser would want to dump loads of money on those? What I'm proposing is a 486x60 banner-shaped ad up above the &quot;article/discussion/edit/history/delete/move/watch&quot; links, nestled in between the Teletraan 1 image and the personal toolbar. (You know, OUTSIDE of the content.) If this is a terrible idea, I will also accept $5 donations. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:14, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I've no qualms with that. That was one of the &quot;acceptable&quot; adspaces, if I recall from the old discussions.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 11:18, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Long as they don't dance or talk or sing, that'll work. Are we actively pursuing advertisers these days? -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 11:22, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Well, &quot;actively pursuing advertisers&quot; is somewhat incompatible with our current ad setup. To put an ad on our site now, that requires signing up with Project Wonderful and bidding. This is good for us because it's mostly automated. If we were to set up a &quot;real&quot; in the traditional sense, we'd need a full-time ad pursuer to fill those spots. The best we can do in our current situation is to try to convince Big Bad Toy Store and its ilk to sign up for Project Wonderful. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:33, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :IIRC, above-the-article is what we wanted Wikia to switch ''back'' to. I have no objection. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 12:20, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Works for me. How does Ant handle TFU.info's advertising? [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 12:35, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Doesn't bother me... but can we either put it ''under'' the personal bar, or somehow make it so the personal bar would wrap? Otherwise, I'm staring at the top of my screen and realizing that I'd have an annoying horizontal scroll bar afterwards whenever I'm logged in.<br /> :I have to admit I'm kind of befuddled that we're apparently doing so much more traffic after the move than we were before, to the point of having all those initial problems because we weren't expecting it. Did the new server somehow improve our traffic, it is sheer coincidence that traffic increased for other reasons, or was it more like the old server wasn't keeping track of bandwidth or anything, so we had no idea how we were actually doing? --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 12:38, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Hosting with Bookworm was cheap. I mean, he was doing it at-cost. Or would have, if he ever invoiced us. Now that we've moved on, we're purchasing hosting from people who actually want to make money off us. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 12:41, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Well, the money's part of it, but I was also thinking about how most of our initial operational troubles seemed to stem from having more traffic to deal with than we realized we were going to have, to the point of even having to run a caching setup I'm guessing we weren't running on the old server. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 12:45, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::The way Bookworm had his servers set up, it was difficult for him to separate out what was our traffic versus what was other traffic on the same server. He gave us an estimate which turned out to be wrong. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 12:55, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Aah, OK. Wasn't sure if it was something we needed to worry about or not. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 13:29, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::I was kinda expecting this :( I'm cool with more banners, and I think you should beg us for money now and then. We may be able to help when we can. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:15, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Caching is what most mediawiki installations '''do.''' We happened to start off on the most resource-intensive wiki software imaginable, and any stats from Bookworm were not only inaccurate based on whatever he was doing in the logs, but also because back then, ''the wiki was constantly crashing.'' You get zero hits per hour when it's down, and no stats in the world would help clear ''that'' up. I'm still tweaking the hit stats, and it'll be at least a week before I can start extrapolating growth numbers, but suffice it to say, we're going to go over our current bandwidth limit before the month is out, and while we won't get shut down, we ''will'' get billed for overages. Think of it like a normal cellphone plan instead of a pre-paid one. --[[User:McFly|McFly]] 11:47, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Yeah, that's mainly what I thought Walky meant. Nestled between the personal bar and the article tabs seems like fertile ground for a banner ad.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 13:39, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> I've got the ad code ready to go, whenever we can edit the CSS or whatever to make room. Here is our awesome new placeholder &quot;please bid here&quot; graphic: [https://www.projectwonderful.com/imagewrapper.php?img=img/uploads/pics/20719-1244569575.jpg&amp;rand=439981] --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:48, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Looks good so far. Potentially odd question: are these particular dimensions popular with Project Wonderful?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 15:55, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::The Leaderboard (700ishx90) and the Big Box (300x250) are the most popular sizes, but those would really ugly up our page. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:58, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::And now it has its first client! That was fast.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 01:52, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Ahhh, Dreamland Chronicles is awesome. I spent a week a few months back reading through their archives after following an ad on our sidebar. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 02:20, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::One interesting thing looking at the Project Wonderful stats is that our ad hits are ''stabilizing'' now, and they're stabilizing fairly high relative to where they were when the site was still spotty. That's got to look good for advertisers, and if the site holds up to the abuse that the film debut is going to subject it to that's only beneficial to us in the end.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 02:48, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> [[Image:Ptbar-notmeanttobehere.png|thumb|This = bad]]<br /> Uh, I'm using Monobook, and as a result of this, the watchlist/preferences/etc bar has somehow ended up at the ''bottom'' of the page, just above the About Transformers Wiki/Powered by MediaWiki/etc... - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 10:36, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I got that on a couple of pages, too, and alt+F5ing didn't work. How I fixed it was I signed out and viewed those same pages as an anon. The userbar went back to where it should be, and it stayed there when I logged in again. - [[User:Magnus Maximus|Magnus Maximus]] 10:49, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Tried that, didn't work.<br /> ::In fact, it's worse than I thought, because I didn't notice at first that the page/discussion/edit tabs have gone wandering too, and are floating around the place (the &quot;discussion&quot; and &quot;edit&quot; tabs are currently in the middle of this edit box, and I can't see the others anywhere). - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 10:58, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::'''THE PROBLEM IS IN common.css'''.<br /> :::The following CSS borks monobook. This is why you should use the specific stylesheets for each skin, NOT the common file:<br /> &lt;pre&gt;<br /> #p-personal {<br /> position: relative;<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> #p-personal .pBody {<br /> float: right;<br /> }<br /> <br /> #p-cactions {<br /> position: relative;<br /> }<br /> <br /> #content {<br /> margin-top: 16px !important;<br /> position: relative;<br /> }&lt;/pre&gt;<br /> :::-[[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 11:30, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> The new ad space at the top of the page, which was fine yesterday, is now looking screwy in Firefox, with the ad behind the top of the Autobot symbol in the logo and the tabs at the top of the bar. Like so: [[Image:Top-ad-screwy.jpg|thumb]] --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 16:43, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Works fine for me in 3.0.10 and 3.5b99, both after clearing cache.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 16:47, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I made some CSS modifications in response to SanityOrMadness's issue, which may cache improperly. Try a hard refresh/clearing your cache. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 16:51, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Okay, clearing my cache fixed it. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 20:19, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> === Is it working? ===<br /> So, between the new banner and our ad display stats in general being ''much'' better since the server stabilized, does this mean that we're taking in what we need to?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 14:57, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> : I think so! We're averaging about $5 a day, which means $150 a month. Our hosting is... $80-ish? But how much of that $150 we'll have to spend a month remains to be seen, since we're going to be doing a lot more than our monthly allotted bandwidth. And there's a movie yet to premiere! So, uh, we'll have a better idea once the month is over. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:00, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::An update, while I'm skimming this page. We had to pay $80 in bandwidth overage fees, so the bill for June was $160. We're basically covering our rent now, assuming things keep at their current speeds. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 10:50, 8 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Assuming we ever end up with more money than we need, David, I suggest you cover yourself in gold. 14 caret gold. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:42, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::If anyone's getting covered in gold, it's McFly and Scout! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:51, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Yeah, but I can actually imagine you as the World's Biggest Man, resplendent in gold and jewels, laughing maniacally. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:28, 20 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::I second McFly and Scout being covered in gold. Also what rate are we paying for extra bandwidth? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 04:42, 20 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::I would prefer to be draped in gold, personally. If you can arrange that, it'd be swell, thanks! (Covered in gold is more of a Bond villain thing to do, after all.) As for the bandwidth rates, we're paying for a 1024MB Slicehost installation. Feel free to look it up, I'm not comfortable spilling numbers all over here. --[[User:McFly|McFly]] 10:36, 25 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ==Consolidate front page?==<br /> [[Image:Newfrontpage062009.jpg|thumb]]<br /> Man, that front banner is huge! Can it be smaller? And when we make it smaller, can we stack up the top-most two boxes next to it like so? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:58, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> : The cropped image shown, of course, is just a placeholder. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:00, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::That looks about as clunky as Wikia's frontpage, IMO.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 16:05, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Well, it's not fine-tuned or anything. Thing is, either that banner's going to be cut down or removed entirely. It's huge, it's bandwidth-wasting, and it pushes all our real content down off the page. What's your choice? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:07, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::I'm probably knee-jerking based on the placement of the boxes. I guess it could be made to work if it's finessed a bit. It's not like we're running a ginormous ad there like Wikia was suggesting.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 16:31, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::I dunno, personally I like this new idea. It reminds me of how our franchise navs look: Logo on the left, linkage on the right. Plus, yeah, unlike Wikia, our content on the right of the logo will actually be... content.<br /> :::::As for logo ideas, why don't we make a few different options where it's the TFWiki.net logo over a pic of a single character? We could have one for Prime, Megatron, Starscream, Jazz, etc. using the &lt;OPTION&gt; thingy. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:37, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::As long as the site-name logo thing itself is HUGE. I really want to make sure the URL is shoved in your face. Branding continues to be important as we war against Wikia for Google prominence. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:40, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::If branding's important, why not change the actual on-every-page logo to use the actual TFWiki.net logo? And put TFWiki.net in the page &amp;lt;title&amp;gt;? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 11:01, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Alternately, each one could be a group shot from a different franchise, with the font altered to match. Play up how many different continuities there are, eh?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 17:00, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> [[Image:Newfrontpage062009b.jpg|thumb]]<br /> ::::::::This image to the right is what I'm now thinking. And it should probably have movie characters predominantly, at least for the next few months. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 17:04, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::I'm inclined to agree with sticking with the movie characters now, considering it's almost two weeks till the US premiere/release. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 17:19, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> That's pretty darn good. Brings a lot more info above the fold, and the layout's pretty clean. The white background is good too, so any other images in the rotation should follow that example.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 17:21, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :How do we make it done? The table markup on the frontpage is foreign to me. I'll upload the new image itself... --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 17:32, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Since Derik doesn't seem to be about yet, I'll have a go with it. Hmm. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:42, 9 June 2009 (EDT)--[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:42, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Actually, we're really going to have to do something like your first example above, with the Continuity/Category tables underneath each other instead of side-by-side, because trying to fit the logo and the two tables all side-by-side looks hideously awful on a 1024px-wide screen. I tried just simply having the smaller logo, the text notices under it, and the two tables on the right, but it looked kind of... eh. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:04, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Mrr. OK, I made ''an'' attempt at tweaking, although I think it's going to need some external CSS tweaks at least, if only to center the Continuities table. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 03:44, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Looks okay, but the jarring thing about it is that the red and blue boxes aren't the same width, though they share a column.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 16:19, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::That's something Derik needs to tweak in the Featured box template and/or external CSS... I can't do it just by editing the page itself.<br /> ::::::Also, yea or nay on the link buttons? It just seemed a little more &quot;Click me!&quot; than the paragraph o' links. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:49, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::I dig 'em. Good design decision, IMO. --[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 16:52, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::Quite aside from anything else... what's the point in liking to tfwiki.info with an image link. It ''just about'' made sense as a text link, but is only going to confuse people who click on the Autobot symbol and end up back where they started. We need to cut down on main page-to-main page links, '''not''' obfuscate where they link to. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 17:30, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::Visual consistency. (And the mouseover text indicated it was an &quot;alternate URL&quot;.) But, I tried tweaking it again. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:52, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::It's fixed! Huzzah!--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 20:46, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::I realized I was just approaching it the wrong way. Eheh. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:15, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> : I'm a little ambivalent towards the &quot;new&quot; logo, just because I think it's a little bland, although I'm sure it's a work in progress. I am all for putting &quot;TFWIKI.net&quot; in the header and all over the fucking place as a branding effort, though. On a slightly related note, I'd consider flipping the &quot;current series&quot; in said box, so ROTF is closer to the center of the page and Animated is on the outside - if we're really trying to bring in ROTF traffic, having that logo front and center is probably a pretty smart idea. I also like the idea of a rotating logo box - maybe we even jigger it so that it links directly to the article for whoever's in it - like the Go! Boxes, but focused entirely on core characters (More Fallen, Movie Optimus, etc., less Irwin Spoon and Dinobots Strike Back). Stick with primary Movie-verse guys for now, and then in a month or so when the hype dies down, we can start to shuffle in some sufficiently advanced and significant articles (making sure that the characters are both important to the fiction and that their articles are nearly, if not entirely complete). [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 11:17, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :That sounds like a good idea. I'm down with that. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 17:00, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> [[Image:Boxswap.jpg|right|350px]]<br /> I has new idea for what module ought to be above the fold, and more ROTF promotiony stuff. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:15, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Sure, I'd go for it. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:26, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> Considering how crowded and text-heavy the front page is, I think the best way to draw attention to the banner is to surround it in as much empty space as possible, [[User:Magnus Maximus/Temp|something like this]], especially as the new banner's white background assimilates the page's whitespace so easily. - [[User:Magnus Maximus|Magnus Maximus]] 03:10, 11 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I'm not sure how that's really different than it is now, other than putting the site notice at the top... which I kind of hate doing, because that pushes all of the content stuff down. The site notice is temporary anyway.<br /> :I was thinking we ought to make the movie stuff more prominent, rather than the continuity/category modules. I was also thinking of placing the banner, site notice, and external website links in one cell instead of two like it is now, which further creates whitespace... I just didn't think of that until after I made the layout change proposal pic.<br /> :I do agree/think maybe we could stand to lose a few modules, though... maybe ditch the Categories module entirely, and consolidate the Holy Grails and Editing Tips somehow. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 03:32, 11 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Oh yeah, you're running a 1024 desktop, aren't you? I changed my res to 1024, and you're right, it really doesn't look much different. But [http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/3349/tfwikitemp1280.jpg this] is how it looks in 1280, and even that little bit of extra space makes a huge difference compared with how it is [http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/4606/tfwikinow1280.jpg now] (in my opinion).<br /> ::I agree about the notice, but I couldn't think where else to put it. Putting it under the banner (thus between the blue and grey boxes) made it seem wedged-in and out of place. Lesser of two evils, you dig?<br /> ::I also agree about making the movie stuff more prominent, but the red and blue boxes are narrower, so they take up less of the horizontal space. I did think that maybe we could change the featured series box so that ROTF is ''on top'' of Animated instead of beside it, and shift that up next to the banner somewhat like it is on my temp page now. That also adapts to 1024 better, I think.<br /> ::And yeah, losing some of the boxes would not be the worst thing in the world. - [[User:Magnus Maximus|Magnus Maximus]] 03:52, 11 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Ehh... my problem with that idea is that, one of the reasons we redesigned the Main Page to begin with is because our greeting was so big that it was pushing useful content down below the fold. This sort of recreates that exact same problem.<br /> :::But, I tried tweaking my Main Page design here: [[User:Jeysie/Main Page]] to give more whitespace. I figure that once the movie's been out for a while and we don't need to pimp it as much, we can replace the Featured Characters box with the Continuities box. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 11:50, 11 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::I was looking at the front page right now and thinking about some things - I'm glad to see most of them are in line with what's already considered. :)<br /> ::That said, I suggest taking TFA out of the featured series box, even if only temporarily, and using the [[:Image:Revenge fallen logo.jpg|logo from the franchise page]]. I feel it's more recognisable as the ROTF logo than the more colourful one we have there, plus we can make it a bit bigger.<br /> ::I also wonder if we should have &quot;Transformers Wiki&quot; written on there somewhere other than the site logo in the sidebar. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 07:11, 11 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> {{-}}<br /> <br /> :::: &quot;TFWIKI.net - THE Transformers Wiki&quot;? [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 07:49, 11 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::I made up a [[:Image:Wikilogo big.psd|PSD template]] of just such a logo this morning. It's layered, so the transparent overlay of the Autobot leaders is optional.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 12:18, 11 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::I definitely prefer the font of the current TFWIKI.NET logo to that one.<br /> ::::::Whatever we ultimately do though, surely we should use the same logo EVERYWHERE, including for the top-left logo, ja? (There's also the recurring thought that we have a G1 Autobot sigil for the top-left logo, but a '''G2''' Autobot sigil for the favicon. I understand that the G2 favicon is unique, which was the main reason we went for it, but if we're thinking about branding...) - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 12:37, 11 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ===Logo===<br /> [[Image:TFwikilogomock.png|right]]<br /> If we want to be movie-centric AND use the TFWiki.net logo extensively for branding reasons, shouldn't we change the Animated-based logo to something more like this? (NB: Quick mock to make a point, '''not''' intended to be actually used, and may clash with the Teletraan on the Monacobook skin). - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 17:30, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I think we do need to keep some visual distinctiveness. If we go too far into the grey look of the movie we end up with understandable confusion concerning its resemblance to [http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/File:Monaco-logo.png this].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 17:59, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Yeah. I'm really really fine with keeping our current page design/color scheme. The Wikia site is really gray, and I'd rather not veer to close to that. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 20:48, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::[Joke Suggestion] How about we make ours ''on fire''? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:27, 11 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::It wouldn't actually be ''that'' hard to do... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 12:08, 11 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ===Featured-series box===<br /> &lt;div style=&quot;float:right&quot;&gt;<br /> {|width=&quot;50%&quot;, <br /> |-<br /> |<br /> {{Featurebox<br /> |Featured Series<br /> |color=#999<br /> |id=featured-series<br /> |content={{User:SanityOrMadness/featured-series}}<br /> |view=User:SanityOrMadness/featured-series<br /> }}<br /> |}&lt;/div&gt;<br /> Should we perhaps rebalance the featured-series box to be more like this? (Yes, I know there's a too-high gap between the two lines to the right of the TFA logo. It didn't preview like that, and I can't see why it's doing that.) - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 14:41, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :That's pretty darn sweet-looking, IMHO. I tried swapping around [[User:Jeysie/Main Page|my take on the Main Page]] to include a slightly modified version of it. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 15:16, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::The way it is on the mainpage right now looks really great. Good density of info above-the-fold.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 15:19, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Or rather on Jeysie's test page, I see now.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 15:21, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Thing about including [[Main Page/featured-characters]] in it like that (which I just edited to increase the header-size to be visually bigger than the character names, and debold the character names themselves) is that if you separate that from above AND below with a line, you visually make it into a franchise by itself. TFA needs a stronger separator from ROTF than the ROTF stuff does within itself. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 15:39, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> &lt;div style=&quot;float:right&quot;&gt;<br /> {|width=&quot;50%&quot;, <br /> |-<br /> |<br /> {{Featurebox<br /> |Featured Series<br /> |color=#999<br /> |id=featured-series<br /> |content={{:Main Page/featured-series}}<br /> |view=Main Page/featured-series<br /> }}<br /> |}&lt;/div&gt;<br /> How about this? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 15:41, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Works for me. I added it to my test Main Page with a few minor formatting tweaks. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:38, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::That looks excellent to me! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 07:23, 13 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Are we doing to do this then? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 11:06, 14 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Was wondering that myself. Any more tweaks or suggestions to add, or should we go with my mockup? --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 13:02, 14 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::The mockup looks pretty solid to me.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 14:11, 14 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::I say go for it! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:46, 14 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Looking again at the featured-characters bit... is Sideswipe really the best choice for that fourth spot on row 1? I already changed Soundwave to Devastator, because the latter has been a LOT more prominent in promos for the movie, but I'm not sure who would be best for a fourth Autobot. Jetfire? Skids &amp; Mudflap? (I'm not even sure if Ironhide is best for the third slot). - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 18:54, 14 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::I was trying to think of a balance between which characters were most prominent and which people were likely to be excited about... we could go for Optimus, Bumblebee, Jetfire, and Skids &amp; Mudflap together in the last spot. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:03, 14 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::Made that change for now, then. I think &quot;prominence&quot; should probably be the main factor, if we want to grab users. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 19:14, 14 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> {{-}}<br /> <br /> ===Featured article===<br /> Now that the featured series box has been sorted... nothing against Kup, but do we have a movie/ROTF article that could possibly take the featured spot at some point between now and the 19th? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 17:57, 14 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :[[The Fallen]] is at Featured Article status. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:07, 14 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::And has been the Featured Article for awhile at A Certain Other Place. I'd rather not mirror them in that respect, personally.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 18:22, 14 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::In that case... I've got no idea. None of the rest are at FA status, and I can't think of which one would be most relevant to pick on for cleanup. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:31, 14 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Surely the three most obvious non-Fallen articles &quot;to pick on for cleanup&quot; are [[Optimus Prime (Movie)]], [[Bumblebee (Movie)]] and [[Sam Witwicky]], ja? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 18:51, 14 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Simmons might be mroe fun. ;)<br /> :::::And Megatron more enlightening, if someone wants to take a whack at his DS-game backstory. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:17, 14 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Looks like Primal Prime is the featured article at that other place, not The Fallen. In fact, it looks like their Fallen article has a cleanup tag, not a featured tag... - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 17:07, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Yeah, someone replaced it a couple of days ago after noticing that their &quot;The Fallen&quot; article wasn't up to scratch. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 17:40, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Any objection to us featuring our superior The Fallen article after all, then? --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:08, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Yeah, on the 24th, the Fallen's page is going up. ESPECIALLY if it's also up at Wikia. Our Fallen page has to supercede theirs, and burying it on the most important week of its life isn't gonna work in our favor. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 18:19, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Hell, if we want to upstage 'em over at Wikia, just put [[Sideswipe (ROTF)|Sideswipe]] as one of the featured characters. I was over there just to see how far the site had gone downhill and it surprised me. They ''don't even have a page for Sideswipe'', it just redirects you to G1 Sideswipe. How sad is that?--[[User:AWT88|AWT88]] 00:13, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :How hard did you look? I wont link it for obvious reasons, but there IS a page for him. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 00:22, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I think he got messed up by the fact that the Main Page links to &quot;Sideswipe&quot; without the parenthetical, which does indeed redirect to G1 Sideswipe.<br /> ::Having said that, their proper ROTF Sideswipe page is still miserable compared to ours, as is the fact that they got the Main Page linking wrong.<br /> ::Not only that... I also noticed that one of their registered users, while editing their Main Page, managed to change their Twitter link to our Twitter in the process. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 00:44, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Yeah I didn't look very hard (alcohol is a helluva thing), the link was what I went for. Obviously someone over there screwed up. You got a problem with it Cattleprod, kiss my shiny, metal ass.--[[User:AWT88|AWT88]] 01:29, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ===Text Purging===<br /> Next possible round of changes:<br /> I've tweaked [[User:Jeysie/Main Page|my setup]] to remove the Categories module (is it really that useful?) and try to reduce/consolidate the Editing Tips/Holy Grails section.<br /> <br /> I also think we should do a purge of the Series box and stick to just the &quot;major&quot; series/franchises: Generation 1, Generation 2, Beast Wars, Robots in Disguise, Armada, Energon, Cybertron, Animated, the two movies, and Universe. (Possibly also Classics and/or Beast Machines). We have the comprehensive list linked to for anyone who really wants to look at everything. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:52, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :The categories box is useful for two reasons: (1) In and of itself, it's useful. I certainly use it. (2) Without it, your mockup has an empty white space in the right column almost the exact size and shape of the categories box... - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 20:49, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I further note that, [[:Image:Mainpage analytics-06-05-09.png|per Derik's statdump]], it ''gets used''. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 20:53, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Well, if you can suggest other ways to clean up our Main Page, I'm all for it. As it is, I agree with Walky that it's getting to be too much of a sea of text, and that struck me as being one of the least useful of the modules. I guess we could consolidate it somehow with the Continuities module as a sort of &quot;Quick Links&quot; box...<br /> ::We possibly could also get rid of the Editing Tips and Holy Grail modules, but I kind of hate doing that, as it's nice to try to encourage new editors to look at that sort of information. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:02, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Thing is, if I click on the first link in the Categories box because I want to find a particular character, I get a big confusing list of subcategories and... [[Mickey Mouse]]. If I'm a casual user looking for,say, [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]], that doesn't help me much, because then I have to hunt through the subcategories for something that looks like it might lead me there. Yes, it's possible that I might notice the search box and use that instead, but that kinda takes away from the point of having that there in the first place.<br /> ::Though technically I guess I'm complaining about the organisation of the Characters category rather than the box itself. :) --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:20, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Jokes? ==<br /> <br /> It is sometimes very hard to find relevant information on this wiki among all the juvenile humor. It's a little off-putting for a casual user like myself. I know this wiki is about robots who turn into cars, but, c'mon... Maybe tone it down a bit?[[Special:Contributions/71.107.102.102|71.107.102.102]] 16:56, 11 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :No. [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 17:00, 11 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::If you can point out specific instances where the humor is getting in the way of the information, we'll take those under consideration for adjusting, but on the whole we here tend to appreciate the humor. (Including this editor back when she was a newbie/casual reader.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:04, 11 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::As does the overwhelming majority of the readership, it seems. We've gotten praise from all circles for the &quot;do not take it too seriously&quot; approach, even from industry professionals. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 15:22, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Tech Upgrades ==<br /> <br /> Since we're cracking 1.5 million hits per day, I'm running an alternate webserver for testing over on [http://tfwiki.net:8080/ port 8080.] It's *not* cached, so I expect it to be a smidge slower, but I'm also aggressively tweaking it for better content compression and lower memory usage. It probably doesn't matter *now,* but I suspect that as we close in on the movie, and then as the movie is released and the edits go up, we're going to need to squeeze out every last ounce of performance available to us. That said, can you guys try to break it via logging in/out, editing articles, etc.? It's all on the same database, so any changes made there WILL show up here (and vice versa,) but my major concern is that we don't have those damned login session problems and their ilk going forward. Thanks! --[[User:McFly|McFly]] 11:05, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :So... an &quot;editing copy&quot; on one server, and a cached copy on another? Because 99% of TFWiki readers aren't editors? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 11:53, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Let's not overcomplicate it. Test on the new link, the software driving that will replace the existing (more resource intensive) software '''if it's any good.''' At this point, I want to find out if there are any bugs, and that's that. --[[User:McFly|McFly]] 16:38, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I got a 405 error when I tried to upload an image on there, but otherwise it seems to be working great. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 20:41, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ==&quot;Wikia wiki&quot; boilerplate==<br /> Between FortMax, Skyjammer and myself, I believe all instances of &quot;Teletraan-I a wikia wiki&quot; etc have been removed from our webpages. Huzzah! Hopefully that will help our Google stats and suchlike, unless I am mis-remembering how those things work... --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 18:31, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :*thumbsup!* --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 07:28, 13 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Special:Imagelist ==<br /> <br /> Is there any way to strip out the deleted images from [[Special:Imagelist]]? It's kinda useless as things stand. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 20:11, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Anonymous users ==<br /> <br /> Right, the movie goes wide-release in the UK on Friday (I think there may be some previews on Thursday). Thinking about the chaos that may result [and noting that Memory Alpha - much to Wikia's displeasure - disabled ALL editing between the first opening of ''Star Trek'' and its' wide release in the US.]... I think we should give serious consideration to disabling anonymous editing from at least the 18th to the 26th of June.<br /> <br /> Thoughts? Objections? Flames? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 22:26, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I've been advocating that for over a month. It's the same thing we did with Animated: material is blocked for anons until it comes out in America. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 22:51, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::I wasn't talking about blocking specific pages, though (in the way a load of ''Animated'' pages were semi-protected) - just a blanket ban on anonymous editing until ''at least'' the 26th (and I would prefer a week or two beyond that). - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 22:57, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::I'd much prefer if it wasn't a total block. Block anons on all the movie char character articles, etc. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:02, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::Block until a week after the movie's released in the States, namely the chara articles and the film page itself (who knows what poor soul will &quot;unknowingly&quot; put in spoilerific in the synopsis/trivia/notes/what-have-you). It's already difficult enough with the adaptation... --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 23:06, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::::I'm not just worried about spoilers, but about the casual vandalism associated with a sudden &amp; short-lived spike in visitor numbers, which probably wouldn't be limited to the movie pages. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 23:10, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::::If we do so, should we have a site-wide message like Memory Alpha? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 02:08, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::::::At least I know we can use [[MediaWiki:Sitenotice]], I'm not sure whether there is any other similar message. --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 07:37, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::::::Wow, some serious US-centric bias being spouted. If you don't want spoiled, then don't visit. It's now well established internet etiquette to avoid forums about a week before a film's release. Same should apply here. Or..... wait til the DVD is released before unlocking movie edits, just in case you're stuck in Outer Mongolia at the time of the cinema release. Anonymous editing should be blocked, if only to stop the inevitable trolling and vandalism. [[Special:Contributions/82.7.126.27|82.7.126.27]] 14:07, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::Er, no. For one, the 24th is the '''world''' premiere, meaning the vast majority of countries are getting it on that date, not just the US.<br /> :::::::::For two, we need to be able to monitor all edits made to ROTF articles to make sure they're accurate and factual, and we can't do that if most of the wiki's regular editors haven't even seen the movie.<br /> :::::::::So this has less to do with spoilers, and more with the entirely practical aim of being able to keep tabs on all ROTF edits effectively. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:19, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::Gosh, thanks, I'll take your advice under consideration.... wait, no, I really won't. If you have a problem with &quot;U.S.-centric bias,&quot; you are in the wrong place: this is openly stated as a U.S.-centric wiki. We blocked anonymous edits to the new ''Animated'' episodes that for some damnfool reason were aired first in Dubai, until they were uploaded online for everyone to see. Our U.S.-based editors shouldn't have to stop working on a website that, to a large extent, ''they created'', just out of fear that some collection of I.P. numbers will thoughtlessly spoil the movie for them. Better to just anon-protect all the movie-related pages until after all the major markets have had their premieres. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 15:12, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> My vote is for blocking all anons from the movie-related pages for at least one week after the world premier, maybe two. I would not be opposed to a site-wide block, however. I really have no interest in cleaning up after a flood of one-timers and trolls and crap. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 15:23, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Hey, I'm all for the lockage. But to stop the wave of trolls that will come. Not because Americans seem to think they have the &lt;insert deity&gt;-given right to subjugate the free speech of others who have the rare opportuity to experience something before the Americans do. That hardly ever happens. America gets everything first; cars, movies, fat, gadgets, first dibs on invasion etc. Thankfully they don't get irony first.[[Special:Contributions/82.7.126.27|82.7.126.27]] 15:38, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Did you even read the post where I pointed out the vast majority of TF fans, both US and non-US, won't be seeing the movie before the 24th, because the vast majority of countries in general aren't getting it until the 24th?<br /> :::Basically, all TF fans not in the UK and Japan aren't going to be getting to see the movie before the 24th. It's not as if we're making editing wait because everyone else is getting the movie early and the US is the only country that isn't.<br /> :::All of our Canadian, Australian, non-UK European, non-Japan Asian, etc. editors are likely equally glad we're waiting. Maybe you should stop and actually think before you go off spouting jerkass strawman accusations. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 15:46, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::Are you ''intentionally'' aiming for self-parody, or did you actually seriously just try to frame your potentially being locked out of our privately-run, privately-financed web site about giant alien space robots for a few days as a ''freedom of speech'' issue? 'Cause that right there is some serious comedy gold, sir. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 15:54, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::I'm afraid there are no Internet Oscars for maudlin self-victimization, otherwise you'd be a shoo-in. Here we only talk about Transformers. You are free to start doing that any old time. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 15:55, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Hahaha, did he just equate being able to post to a wiki about cartoon robots for a few days... to the right to free speech? Man, and I thought education was bad over HERE! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:03, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ===One derailment later...===<br /> So, then, back on the subject... I still think we should do it. Mr Anon isn't making me think less of it as an idea. And yes, a [[MediaWiki:Sitenotice]] would be essential. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:33, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :So, we're all for blocking anons for a week after the 24th? --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 00:31, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::They're gonna get pissy, but sounds good to me. But what about the editors who can't log in, is that still a problem?--[[User:AWT88|AWT88]] 09:52, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Most likely. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 12:48, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Which editors who can't log in? The problem with IE users not being able to log in was fixed when McFly fixed all the other problems on the site. I haven't heard of any reports of anyone else having the problem... --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:32, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::It's not a case of being technically unable to log in. Its a case of NOT DESIRING to log in because people are at work or at school or where there are shared computers. When I was at school, I certainly didn't want to log in, and a few other people felt the same way. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:09, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Ah! Of course. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 04:46, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == &quot;Transformers Comic&quot; ==<br /> <br /> Okay, I've got three issues at present with the titling treatment of the Titan Movie comics:<br /> #Ambiguity - if you look at, say, [[Transformers Comic issue 9]], there's ''at least'' three Transformers #9s with no subtitle - [[DIS-Integrated Circuits!|Marvel G1 US #9]], [[Man of Iron!|Marvel G1 UK #9]], and [[Transformers Comic issue 9|Titan Movie #9]]; and currently the only one at &quot;Transformers Comic issue 9&quot; is the Titan Movie issue<br /> #DO we go by issue, or by story? - We're all over the shop on this:<br /> #*The Marvel US issues are all at the story titles, but these pages incorporate any &quot;Transformers Universe&quot; bio material<br /> #*The Marvel UK issues almost all have multiple stories or parts of stories, and I think there may even be some issues with multiple UK-originated/non-reprint stories, and each story is at its' own page, ''which incorporates multiple issues'' (e.g., [[Time Wars]]), leaving aside editorial and other non-story material.<br /> #*The Marvel G2 issues almost all have backups, sometimes nominal, sometimes not, and they're all at the title of the lead/non-&quot;Tales of Earth&quot; story (e.g. [[New Dawn]]).<br /> #*The ''first'' Panini Armada issue is at the story title ([[First Encounter!]]), while the ''rest'' are at &quot;Panini Armada issue X&quot; (e.g., [[Panini Armada issue 2]]).<br /> #*The IDW issues are at the issue title even where the issue is split into multiple, titled. stories (e.g. [[The Arrival issue 4]])<br /> #The actual title of the Titan Movie issues - Titan Movie v1 #22-25 are actually titled ''Transformers: Universe'' #22-25 (mostly in reflection of it absorbing the cancelled ''Animated'' comic), but are still at &quot;Transformers Comic issue XX&quot;; while v2, titled ''Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen'' #XX, is at the truly bizarre &quot;Transformers Comic 2.XX&quot;. Really, just because the letters page said 2.x once, rather than &quot;Revenge of the Fallen (Titan) issue X&quot;, which is what's on the cover?<br /> What are we doing with this? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:17, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :As I've said before, I do NOT favor consistency here. A one-size-fits-all approach will inevitably fail to encompass the widely variable situations with various comic series.<br /> :The Marvel US book are under the story titles because, for all intents and purposes, the story and the issue are one and the same. Likewise for most of Dreamwave's G1 run. Sure, we could move 'em all to &quot;The Transformers issue 2 (Marvel US)&quot;, but what do we ''gain''? How is this any better than &quot;Power Play!&quot;? What is the benefit? Mere consistency is insufficient reason.<br /> :This is much, much less true with the UK comic, where stories were broken into two and even three parts, and multiple stories shared page space in the same issue. Now, I've heard rumblings to the effect that each UK issue should have its own page, and there's merit to that, insofar as each issue's contents are a mixed bag - minicomics, letters pages, and pieces and parts of various stories. It might make sense to have a page for each issue, basically a list of its contents, with ''See main article'' links to the entire story -- so, say, UK #88, #89, #90, or whatever, all link to a single page for &quot;Target: 2006&quot;.<br /> :With G2, it absolutely makes complete sense to combine the two stories. The &quot;backup&quot; strips are such in name only; they are absolutely integral to the main strip, and neither can be read without the other. Separating &quot;Tales of Earth&quot; bits into their own pages is only going to confuse things and make them ''less informative''. Furthermore, the main strip clearly ''is'' the MAIN strip. It makes sense to cover the whole story under that strip's title. Our current system for G2 acknowledges this, while still distinguishing between the contents of each section. The alternative is to move each page to &quot;Generation 2 issue 2&quot; or whatever... and I don't see what we gain by doing this. <br /> :The Titan comics should be moved to whatever the cover and indicia call them. If they're just ''Transformers'' or something equally generic, well, that's what parenthetical disambigs are for. Likewise for the ROTF reboot. A simple (Titan) should cover the bases well enough, yes?<br /> :A recent trend has been issues with 2 discreet stories, such as the ''Animated'' books you mention. I've long been in favor of having a single page for the ''issue'' for such books, with ''See main article'' links to the individual stories within them - so &quot;Animated: The Arrival issue 2&quot; would be a list of stuff, with two prominent links within to pages about the two stories it contains. Still, I can understand if people see that as unnecessarily messy -- so long as they can agree that, since the stories are pretty much co-equal, it would make no sense at all to give one or the other naming precedence.<br /> :So, that's my take. Case-by-case basis FTW, baby. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 21:43, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Also, to address item #1 specifically... if we do stick with &quot;Transformers&quot; as the title, there should be a disambig note for Transformers at the top. Unless &quot;Comic&quot; is in the title, it shouldn't be in there. I'm thinking the article names should be &quot;Transformers issue 1 (Titan)&quot;, etc., with the parenthetical at the end of the page title, rather than the middle.<br /> :These books generally have stories from different continuities, don't they? That's a point in favor of separating the story content out from the containing issue. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 11:19, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Personally I've been using &quot;Comic issue&quot; because that's what the pages were before I started adding to the wikli, and &quot;issue 2.&quot; stuck with the former way of numbering things (and was easier to type...). If naming them after the title (so from #22 it's Transformers Universe or Transformers ROTF etc) would make more sense, I'd be happy to go with that. <br /> ::As for whether or not to have specific issue or story pages, I'd say if we're going to have individual pages for each issue of IDW and Dreamwave miniseries (not to mention multi-parters in the cartoons), it wouldn't make sense not to for Titan. There's already a precedent that if we do this for post-Marvel comics. -- [[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] 20:25, 19 June 2009 (GMT)<br /> <br /> == Non-movie (Movie) characters vs. movie (ROTF) characters with the same name ==<br /> <br /> Anyone else think we should, at the very least, have {{tl|disambig2}}s on pages like [[Jetfire (Movie)]] and [[Mudflap (Movie)]] to the ROTF characters of the same name? Yes, I realise users could go via the disambig page, but I see it as making things simpler &amp; easier for newbies, and in that scenario one click is always better than two. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 22:20, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I think I'd cautiously support adding a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{disambig2}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; for characters of the same name within the same continuity if there seems like a good chance for confusion. I'd oppose imposing it as an across-the-board standard though. (You're nto suggesting that though.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:23, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I oppose it on the principle that multiple disambig templates on a page is ugly. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 22:47, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Ugly, and you can get to where you need to go through the disambig. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:48, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Here's the thing though - '''is it intiutive''' for a complete newbie, who came in via ROTF, to see &quot;Optimus Prime (Movie)&quot;, &quot;Bumblebee (Movie)&quot; and &quot;Megatron (Movie)&quot; '''and not immediately conclude''' that the Jetfire article will be at &quot;Jetfire (Movie)&quot;, rather than some incredibly obscure card-puzzle that even we don't have a final picture for?<br /> :::::Hell, even take it a step up from &quot;complete newbie&quot; to someone who sat through Beast Wars/Machines or Armada/Energon/Cybertron, where characters changed bodies between series so that they had very little resemblance to their prior selves (in the UT's case, without any explanation). Those guys might assume that &quot;Mudflap (Movie)&quot; *is* Skids' twin even if he bears no resemblance to him. And it was a guy making that exact mistake and getting reverted by you last night that caused me to post this.<br /> :::::I really think a BIG, prominent link DIRECTLY from the obscure (Movie) character to the prominent (ROTF) character is required. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 20:26, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::As long as there's a link to the same-universe namesake in the intro, I see no need for an additional disambig template. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 01:21, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::And on that note, I added just such a line for [[Mudflap (Movie)]]. It seemed especially appropriate for him, since he's an Autobot wannabe who precedes an actual Autobot of the same name. That having been said, though, I don't dislike the [[:Template:disambigrotf]] template you cooked up, Sanity. It's a little unwieldy, but it's probably as succinct as such a thing could ever be. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 00:46, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::I did the same for Jolt, who had the wal-mart version for the first movie and it was deleted... I was told &quot;that's what disambig is for.&quot; [[User:Cliffjumper prime|Cliffjumper prime]] 01:12, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Well, I'm generally in favor of intro-links because they allow for a bit more elaboration. If it's just a disambig, then we're presenting the characters as though they are definitively separate individuals with no connection to each other, even though in most cases there's just too little evidence to say one way or t'other. The absence of information is, itself, noteworthy. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 02:57, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::I favour user-friendliness over concerns about how ugly or pretty it makes things look. I think those of you arguing about how ugly it makes things look and disambig3 doing the job are working under the assumption readers are fairly knowledgeable about how this wiki operates. I find that attitude to be rather unhelpful and presumptive. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:13, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::Indeed. I still have a problem with not redirecting [[Optimus Prime (Energon)]]-&gt;[[Optimus Prime (Armada)]], [[Optimus Primal (BW)]]-&gt;[[Optimus Primal]], [[Optimus Prime (ROTF)]]-&gt;[[Optimus Prime (Movie)]], etc. It seems almost ''wilfully'' inconsistent to not have an equivalent parenthetical available for every character in a series to aid in newbies' browsing &amp; editing. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 09:01, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::I don't like the expanded ROTF disambig box. I like how Charles RB did it on the [[Sideswipe (Movie)]] page. A little tack-on to the continuity note. Although in Sideswipe's case I think the pages could actually be merged. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 10:11, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::As opposed to assuming that every reader is retarded and can't figure out [[Jetfire (Movie)]] is not the same character as [[Jetfire (ROTF)]]? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 13:43, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::Go look at pictures of the UT Hot Shots and get back to us (NB: First example which leapt to mind, but by no means the only one).<br /> ::::::::::It's not as if there isn't precedent for stuff without any real resemblance to each other to be randomly declared the &quot;same character&quot; in Transformers. Especially since &quot;Jetfire (Movie)&quot; is no character at all - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 14:32, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::::::::Why on god's green earth would someone look at a page called &quot;Jetfire (Movie)&quot; and assume that they have NOT found Jetfire from the live-action movie series? Why would the expected, logical, inevitable response be, hey, there must be another guy by the exact same name in the movie series! ? That's like, the exact opposite of retarded. It's unretarded. It's ''logical''. The truth of the matter, that there's two guys in the same continuity with the exact same name, doesn't make a damn lick of sense.<br /> ::::::::::Assumption of prior knowledge is a rampant problem in this fandom. Around here we're supposed to be smarter than that, though! We should be able to step back from our microscopic inspection of things and say, &quot;Hey, this whole deal really is retarded. Let's clarify it.&quot; Thus I am ''heavily'' in favor of liberal disambiguation. Not only does it make things clearer for the reader, it also increases the chances of the reader working their way into the obscure backwaters of the site -- which is what we want, is it not? If it makes the page look &quot;ugly&quot;, well, that's OUR problem, isn't it? Why should the reader experience suffer because of a shortcoming on our end? Maybe we need to expand our diambiguation template options, instead of rejecting the notion on aesthetic grounds. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 16:14, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::::I'd agree with not keeping this in the disambig. Though I see pages that had it outside the disambig section have been edited, so I presume it's now the policy to keep the information there? -- [[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] 00:56, 20 June 2009 (GMT)<br /> :::::::::::Well said. I agree without reservation.<br /> :::::::::::And on that note, I'd not only like to see more liberal redirecting (really, if &quot;Optimus Prime&quot; appears in ''Energon'' there is no way on Xal's green Earth there shouldn't be a valid [[Optimus Prime (Energon)]] page, even if it's just a redirect), but ALSO a general desnarking of mainpics (not captions, the ''actual pictures'' themselves) - stuff like the &quot;self portrait&quot; on [[Grimlock (G1)]] or the Cyber-Slammers pic on [[Brawl (Movie)]] (why... I mean WHY?!) only - and I quote from {{tl|desnark}} - &quot;interfer[es] with the delivery of information on th[e] page.&quot; Have the pics on the page, sure, but NOT as a mainpic. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 17:49, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::::That Cyber-Slammers pic will be removed over my fucking dead body. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 17:57, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::::Why?<br /> :::::::::::::No, really, why? The jokiness is stated, in an official policy, as being '''all right as long as it doesn't replace something more useful'''. The whole point of a main pic is that it's the ur-version of a character, the single most representative version. If you need a pic of the character to show off how it would look in most people's minds, it would be a strong candidate if not a shoe-in.<br /> :::::::::::::Other than you, WHO THE HELL WOULD THINK OF THE CYBER-SLAMMER FIRST?! - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 18:22, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::::::I don't see why the Cyber-Slammer image is anti-information. It's a perfectly good image of Brawl/Devastator! Just not one that you particularly like. And it's not just me. It's not like I put the image there! The only people I've ever seen speak out against the image are you and random anons. So there. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:24, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::::::::::The only problem I see with spare diambigs like &quot;Optimus Prime (Energon)&quot; is that if you're typing in &quot;Optimus Pr&quot; into the Search box, a list of &quot;Optimus Pr*&quot; pages is gonna come up. It's already a long list, limited by our software to 8 results. With the extra disambigs, potentially useful results might scroll off the list entirely.<br /> ::::::::::::As for the images... eh. We're not *that* rampant with the jokey images. More importantly, you can scroll down Grimlock's page and quickly see lots of pictures of him across various media. The main pic isn't significantly inhibiting the flow of information, IMO. For Brawl... we *could* use a few more full-body shots of him near the top of the page, last time I checked at least. -- [[Special:Contributions/99.151.96.72|99.151.96.72]] 18:11, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::::Redirects are automatically flagged in several ways by the software - is there really no way to either exclude them from the search suggestions, or (preferably) just throw them to the bottom of the pile?<br /> ::::::::::::::Yes, but every time I've suggested doing ''just that'' instead of the zealous (overzealous, IMO) purging of redirects, someone comes up with like 3 examples where &quot;we ''really'' want this redirect to show up.&quot; And those 3 examples somehow outweigh the 3000 links you ''don't'' want in the search suggestion box. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:26, 19 June 2009 (EDT) <br /> :::::::::::::And no, we're not &quot;that rampant&quot; - all the more reason that we shouldn't be doing it at all. Like I say, the whole point of a main pic is to show the single most identifable version of the character in one shot. The two examples I mentioned (I'm sure I could find more, but those are the two which stick in my head) are completely the opposite - a kid's-scrawl &quot;self-portrait&quot; from an obscure 5-page B&amp;W Marvel UK backup, and a version of a character that barely resembles the movie/fiction model. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 18:22, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::::::WHERE WILL SOMEONE FIND A PICTURE OF GRIMLOCK IF NOT AT THE TOP OF THE TFWIKI ARTICLE?! -[[User:LV|LV]] 20:09, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::::I withdraw my &quot;ugly&quot; comment now that we have the disambiguations melded into a single table. I just didn't want a tower of them. I see no reason for not doing it this way we're doing it now. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:29, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == &quot;Wanted Pages&quot; clean-up ==<br /> <br /> The Wanted Pages list is cluttered with links to pages that... aren't wanted at all. There's a big chunk of that list that are actually just links from discussions, along the lines of: &quot;I don't know if this is the right name for this page. How about we name it 'Alternate name 1' or 'Alternate name 2'?&quot;. There are also quite a few links that come from userpages, that do nothing but clutter up the list; &quot;My favourite tv shows beside transformers are 'Beavis and Butthead' and 'Batman'.&quot;<br /> <br /> All these unnecessary links make the Wanted Pages hard to navigate through at times... Creating pages that appear on that list is the main way I contribute to this wiki, but it's getting harder to do so when half the links I find there aren't necessary. However, it felt quite rude to just go into someone's userpage and edit what they had written about themselves, or change other people's words in a discussion. Would it be ok to actually go through these pages and tweak them a bit? Like just killing the links themselves? Or for something along the lines of the user's page, just changing the links to an outside site, such as Wikipedia?<br /> <br /> Additionally, it'd be nice to encourage people not to create random links like this all the time... I'm sure if you put quotation marks around your suggested link name, people will understand thats a link you're suggesting, you don't actually have to create a link that goes nowhere. Any opinions? --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] 14:50, 20 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :[[User:Bluestreak7|Bluestreak7]]'s been doing this sort of thing already, so I don't see why it'd be a big deal.<br /> :If you're worried about userpages, and you see the person's still an active editor after checking their contributions, you can always just leave them a quickie note about the matter on their talk page. (If the person ''hasn't'' edited in a long time, I'd say just go for the change yourself.)<br /> :Plus, there's no particular reason why you'd need to actually change a person's words: you can either just remove the link, or create a piped link to the correct link, whichever is more appropriate.<br /> :Also useful would be going through and fixing any links that are spelling errors or alternate ways of linking to an already existing page or already &quot;wanted&quot; page. I try to do that myself from time to time, but they're not always easy to catch, especially if they're for people/things I'm not familiar with. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 15:22, 20 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Heh, I had no idea that my pet project had got any notice. One thing I have noticed is there is a good percentage of &quot;wanted pages&quot; that come from talk pages. Many times when editors are figuring out how to name the particular page they actually wiki-link to multiple choices. It would be nice just to put them in quotes or such. I think we'll all understand what it means when discussing possible titles. I'm hesitant in modifying these talk pages until we come up with some sort of standard. However, I'm not hesitant in removing dead links from user pages. Many users are now unregistered since the bookworm crash. All those are fair game in my opinion to remove any links. In the past few weeks we've gone from more at least 4866 to less than 4500. That's a good start. --[[User:Bluestreak7|Bluestreak7]] 22:32, 24 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Doctor Braxis/Doctor B ==<br /> <br /> [[Withered Hope]] has a redlink for the Go-Bots Dr. Braxis character, but apparently he is only identified in the actual story as &quot;Dr. B.&quot; Two questions:<br /> <br /> 1) If I start the article, should it be as &quot;Doctor Braxis&quot; (what we know is his real name, and what the redlink already points to) or &quot;Doctor B&quot; (which, technically, is all he's called in TF fiction)? (such as Nick Fury vs. 'Nicholas')<br /> <br /> 2) How much non-TF info on the doc would be appropriate to include in said article? Especially as there's no GoBots wiki as there is for, say, Marvel, Star Wars, or Godzilla that I could provide an external link for...<br /> <br /> I know that when it comes to crossover stuff, most every Wiki has their own policy on handling it, so I just wanted to check. Thanks in advance! [[User:Thanos6|Thanos6]] 04:54, 21 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I'd create it at &quot;Doctor B&quot;. Then give the &quot;Fiction&quot; section that explains his role in Withered Hope. Then a &quot;Trivia&quot; or &quot;Real world' or some such section that explains &quot;This guy is Doctor Braxis, he was a bad guy from Go-Bots.&quot; I'd say err on the side of too much info and then we can edit it down. [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 09:09, 21 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::OK, here's the first version of the article. [[Doctor B]]. Thoughts? [[User:Thanos6|Thanos6]] 05:55, 9 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I've done a bit of formatting. I have to wonder if we shouldn't just be treating the GoBots show as another branch of TF fiction. Hasbro owns the whole lot now, don't they? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 06:19, 9 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Proposal: Reorganizing movie character pages? ==<br /> <br /> The general arrangement of the fiction sections for the movie character pages has... not ''annoyed'' me, per se, but made the back of my brain itch for a little while now. They take an approach of ''trying'' to present all the events that happen to a character in a chronological order, which is a laudible goal, and an approach taken in many, if not ''most'' other pages of the wiki, and one that in those other situations, I generally advocate. However, becuase there are so many different pieces of ancillary media for the movie, which take place before, during, after and ''aaaalll'' around the movie and ''each other'', they're getting very muddled. The &quot;Titan&quot; seciton is often placed before the section for the first movie, since it begins in the past... but then has to summarize events, including its alternate timeline, which take place ''after'' the movie... before the movie's event have been related in the article. You follow me? Further, I feel that this approach tends to create the appearance of one cohesive timeline, and we all know that's just not true - there are innumerable discrepancies between the movie and the ancillary media, and - avoiding any spoilers - ROTF is one of the worst examples of key parts of the movie's backstory conflicting ''wildly'' with what the ancillary media has said. So, I think that a more divisive, clinical approach is necessary, and I've quickly knocked up [[User:Chris_McFeely/ROTF_proposal|this]].<br /> <br /> I think that the movies should be the first thing on the page, just there, on their own. They are the core of this universe and its characters - they are the pieces of fiction around which ''all'' the others are written. Everything takes the movies as its starting point and works backwards or forwards from there. Making them the first thing on the pages frees us up to more freely explore past and future depicted in other media. Also, I'm in favour of just making sub-sections for &quot;IDW continuity&quot; (again, the discrepancy between what the IDW comics have shown and what is actually in the ROTF movie is prompting this line of thought), and describing the eventts of all of its comics in one, long section, rather than splitting in two like we had it before, is preferable. As a follow-on from this, Titan gets its own section, with a sub-section (a la &quot;Marvel UK future timelines&quot;) for its alt. universe, rather than just a note, making the division between the stories a lot clearer. Also, it removes the need for odd notes like the one on Scorponok's page which has to mention that he only dies in the Titan comics and nowhere else - now, it should be obvious, because the continuity has been isolated instead of interspersed with all the others. The prequel novels are about the only thing I'm not sure on - I haven't actually read them, so I don't feel capable of making a decision, and have just put them under their own heading like this for now (after the movie, but before the comics since surely, more ordinary people on the street have read the books than the comics?). Could they potentially just be put under the &quot;Movies&quot; header, around the movies themselves, or do they feature any major conflicts?<br /> <br /> Right, then. Thoughts? - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 09:06, 21 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I agree. How does Wookiepedia arrange all that ancilliary stuff I wonder? [[User:Drmick|Drmick]] 09:15, 21 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::As the person who has been doing the most work on the movie articles on this wiki: I am not really enthused with the idea of rearranging the articles and re-learning how to deal with them. A few months ago, I determined the layout of the fiction sections (with the exception of the Titan stuff) on the assumption it is in one rough continuity (continuity errors and contradictions and all), and nobody objected, probably because nobody cared very much about movie fiction at the time. In my mind, if you ignore the Titan section, from start to finish, it reads reasonably well. May I suggest we just fence off Furman's Crackpot Titan Continuity? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 10:11, 21 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::FWIW, I don't think the IDW Prequel comics from the first movie are supposed to be in-continuity with RoS/Destiny. (Or at least, I don't think Mowry used them as references, just the scripts for the movies, so if it all matches up it's kind of coincidental.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 10:28, 21 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::IDW has stumbled over its own prequel material continuity twice, which is not encouraging. The Planetfall story contradicted the first prequel which established the Decepticons landing in America, and then The Reign of Starscream contradicted Planetfall by showing Starscream's crew getting to Mars via starship, not by [[transition form]]. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 10:37, 21 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::I remember at some point saying, verrrrrry explicitly, that there ''will'' be errors and contradictions and inconsistencies and multiple timelines in the Movie fiction -- I believe it was back when someone or other was arguing in favor of integrating ''Reign of Starscream'' et. al into the main movie summaries, and italicizing them like we do with the UK comics. It seemed like a bad idea then. Sounds like a bad idea now. Sorry if my protestations weren't fervent enough to register at the time.<br /> ::::In general, our approach is and should be to divide up a character's appearances by media source. There are exceptions to this rule (UK comics, Animated comics), but they should always be approached with caution. I don't think the multi-timeline-spawning film series is a good candidate for this approach. Derrick Wyatt knew what was going on with ''Animated'', but I doubt that Michael Bay really gives a crap about ''Alliance'' or whatever else. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 10:44, 21 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::That's not really the issue, though, Rob. We already ''do'' have the fiction broken up by media source - I'm just advocating a rearrangement of the ''order'' in which that fiction is laid out in articles, to make the individual, splintering &quot;continuities&quot; a bit more individual. Really, I'm not expecting a conclusion right away - I'm raising this now so we can get a bit of discussion going before ROTF hits in the US. Because I gotta say, I think the sheer failure of the IDW ROTF prequel stuff to line up with ''any'' of the backstory in the film will help convince folks that this is a good reason to go down this road, but it will require you Yanks (and Aussies!) to see the film to decide first! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 10:51, 21 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::It boils down to... when reading RoS and Destiny, you're supposed to treat the movies as part of those comics' timeline, as they're intended to fit, not be deliberately AU like the Titan stories apparently are. Hasbro had certain elements be changed because they would clash with the movies, and so on, so there was at least ''some'' attempt to make it somehow fit together. The Movies are an integral part of the RoS/Destiny continuity.<br /> ::::::However, apparently the converse isn't necessarily true: the movies may not treat RoS/Destiny as part of ''their'' timeline.<br /> ::::::So... *shrug* Structure that as you will. And the IDW Prequel comics are off doing their own equally separate thing regardless. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 11:00, 21 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Don't forget about prequel novels. I prefer FFN's proposal but I would definitely mix in [[The Veiled Threat]] fiction as happening near the end of Alliance. IDW+films seem to make up the backbone of the continuity, but maybe that isn't fair to the Titan comic. To be honest, from what I've heard, I'm prepared to treat the ROTF film as a micro-continuity, at least for my own fanon purposes. The adaptations seem to match the prequel material fairly well. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 11:43, 21 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Something to consider - the fact that The Veiled Threat, a novel from a writer(s) and a publisher who has nothing to do with IDW Publishing has taken pains to ensure it fits (more or less) within the continuity of The Reign of Starscream and Alliance suggest that somebody, somewhere, most likely Hasbro, wants us to consider the prequel material (excluding Furman's Alternate Universe stuff) as one single continuity, and to address contradictions and continuity errors as we come across them. That's my view of the movie articles and how we should do them. Without the prequel stuff, you'd just get several fenced off sections where &quot;Stuff just happens&quot;, and that's why off-screen material exists, to explain or expand upon things that cannot fit into the movie or episode because they're too complex or too geeky for the audience. This wiki exists to tell people what happened off screen or why Bay's movies are so incoherent, and the way I see it, if we fence off Furman's UK alt-universe stuff, it more or less fits in together, and you get a decent story out of it. Sorry to ramble. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 23:56, 21 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Here's the simple answer-- document the movie as it's own thing, and in the IDW section, use the IDW movie adaption as a stand-in for the movie, with all the retcons, mucked-up timelines, etc. Best of both worlds. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:41, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I meant leaving the damn articles as they are, except for fencing off Furman's stuff. I'm not about to track down those adaptation comics to (essentially) tell an abbreviated version of the same story already detailed in the same articles. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 06:33, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Representing the tfwiki at an IMAX premiere? ==<br /> <br /> I've managed to get myself into an IMAX premiere or screening of Revenge of the Fallen tonight, and the promotors/Hasbro want to do a photo op/press thing with aussie fans. Should I like, hold up a sign that says &quot;TFWIKI.NET THE TRANSFORMERS WIKI&quot;? Or would that bring down unnecessary official scrutiny on us? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 22:19, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Yeah, thanks for your advice, guys :/--[[User:FFN|FFN]] 23:01, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Do you have a &quot;decaf&quot; setting? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 23:18, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Well the promoter let us know at the '''''very last minute''''' so plans are rushed. I have to time manage this thing with the free time of other people I am probably going with. Because frankly, the only reason I'd want to do the photo thing for the promoter is to represent the wiki, and if I was given the go ahead by you, I would have endeavoured to turn up if at all possible. I hope you at least appreciated that dedication to the wiki. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 23:25, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Oh, and another thing - we were invited due to our association with Ozformers, but instead of promoting Ozformers, I want to promote the tfwiki. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 23:27, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Guess you know where your bread is buttered! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 23:34, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Hell, give of us a break, it hasn't even been an hour. I say do it, give us some representation, it might help us in the Google rankings and get us past the craptastic Wikia.--[[User:AWT88|AWT88]] 23:05, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Not good enough, Jan. *folds arms* --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 23:14, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Doesn't Hasbro kind of know about us already, seeing as how they answer questions from us every other month and their licensees send us pics and stuff sometimes? It's not like they're not scrutinizing us already if they're gonna. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:10, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Now I gotta make a sign... --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 23:14, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Try the Universal Greeting Dance. They'll reciprocate. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:32, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Or they'll try to eat you! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 23:33, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Is our motto &quot;Transformers is Serious Business&quot;? Or am I associating Shortpacked!'s motto? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 23:44, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::&quot;Toys are serious business&quot; is a Shortpacked! thing. I don't think the Wiki has a motto. The one on the Twitter feed is &quot;We know more about Transformers than you.&quot; --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 23:51, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::That sounds a bit confrontational, though, like people may not realise we aren't being aggressive or jerkish. Hasbro AU and Eric Siebenaler thought it was funny when I interrupted somebody complaining about Robot Heroes and Mighty Muggs by saying &quot;Transformers is Serious Business&quot;. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 00:08, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::Considering how many TF creators use us as a reference as of late, I feel like it ought to be &quot;We know about Transformers so you don't have to.&quot;<br /> :::::::::But I have to agree that something like &quot;Transformers is serious business, yo.&quot; would make for an amusing sign blurb. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 00:37, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::&quot;Transformers are serious business&quot; is thrown around as a joke a lot, but I don't think it's actually our motto.<br /> ::::::::*TFWiki.net: We know more about Transformers than you want to.<br /> ::::::::*TFWiki.net: Cooler than Star Trek, not as cool as Star Wars<br /> ::::::::*TFWiki.net: Great, there go 4 hours of my life<br /> ::::::::*TFWiki.net: Nerdgasm Evolved<br /> ::::::::*TFWiki.net&lt;sup&gt;[1]&lt;/sup&gt;<br /> :::::::::[1] amusing footnote<br /> ::::::::*Transformerology: Finally, a degree you can use in real life.<br /> ::::::::*TFWiki.net: serious intellectual debate about transforming space robots<br /> ::::::::*TFWiki.net: Disambiguiously Gay<br /> ::::::::*TFWiki.net: A Gold Standard of Geekdom<br /> ::::::::*TFWiki.net: Amazing and Kinda Scary<br /> ::::::::-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:44, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::I've chosen the serious intellectual debate and we know more about TFs than you want to, as it fits my sense of humour. I'd do more signs, but I am the only TFWiki guy there, so two signs is already pushing it, and there's every chance they'll just crop the sign out or tell me to put it away. Cheers, guys. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 00:58, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::Incidentally, I ''love'' &quot;serious intellectual debate about transforming space robots.&quot; Also:<br /> ::::::::::* &quot;TFWiki.net: Remember that one guy? He was so cool!&quot;<br /> ::::::::::* &quot;TFWiki.net: We remember who Groundshaker was, so you don't have to.&quot; (alternately: &quot;TFWiki.net: Who the hell is ''that''!?&quot;)<br /> ::::::::::* &quot;TFWiki.net: Come for the information, stay for the inevitable flamewar about funny captions.&quot;<br /> ::::::::::* &quot;TFWiki.net: Unhealthily fixated since 2006.&quot;<br /> ::::::::::* &quot;TFWiki.net: Because you're just ''dying'' to know what they called Thundercracker in Hungary.&quot; [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 07:41, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::I just got back. I have no idea if the sign got into pics or not. However, I am pleased this discussion spurred creative ideas in potential official slogans for the wiki. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 09:16, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::::&quot;Come for the information, stay for the funny.&quot; has a certain ring to it. As does &quot;We remember who Groundshaker was, so you don't have to.&quot; Or &quot;Revering and ruining your childhood all in one website.&quot; --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 11:33, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::::[http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?s=&amp;showtopic=51208&amp;view=findpost&amp;p=1258252 I agree with Walky:] &quot;TFWiki.net: Yeah, this makes no goddamn sense, but here it is.&quot; - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 00:04, 25 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ==Meanwhile, in other promotional exploits...==<br /> I was interviewed this morning for the [http://www.fayobserver.com/ Fayettesville Observer]. Soon North Carolina will know alllll about Shortpacked!, our wiki, and Starscream's French-Canadian name. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:11, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Totally read that as &quot;Fattysville&quot;. Home of the BBQ Double Stackticon! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 13:21, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::[http://www.fayobserver.com/Articles/2009/06/25/904214 And here we go!] Got all the &quot;important&quot; stuff right, though apparently [[User:LV]] is now sixty years old and bought a Camaro. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 12:25, 25 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Huh. Not too far from where I live. I should see if some folks I know there can keep a copy. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 16:07, 25 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Ridiculous Transformers ==<br /> <br /> The StreetLevel blog recently posted a list of the [http://www.streetlevel.com/2009/06/04/the-top-10-most-ridiculous-transformers-ever/ Top 10 Most Ridiculous Transformers, Ever].<br /> <br /> It is very dumb. I want to counter with a ''better'' list.<br /> <br /> Anyone have any suggestions? Legion and Pepsi Convoy are already a lock. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:16, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> : It hurts my braaaaaaaaain. (And don't forget there's a Megatron that transforms into a shoe.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:18, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :: And [[Esmeral]]. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:21, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Piano Transformer guy?<br /> :::Is this just for ridiculous transformations? Are there any in-universe guys who are ridiculous?<br /> :::...I'm ''so'' putting Drift on this list. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:23, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Don't be that guy, man. You might as well start adding Nightscream and Wheelie. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:25, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::They have redeeming features. Drift is Poochie. &quot;Designed-by-committie awesome&quot; ''always'' looks ridiculous. He's not just a traitor or a samurai-- he's an albino-japanese-streetracer-taciturn-former-Decepticon-honorbound-samurai-ninja.<br /> :::::So then I hope you're putting Animated Prowl on that list, too! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:28, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Much less ridiculous than Drift. I am adding [[Break]] though. There are more ridiculous transformers, but &quot;Penguin Antagonist Naruto&quot; is easy to shorthand. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:51, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::I'll give him a fair shake and note he hasn't been that annoying in the fiction itself... but in ''concept'' he's clearly ridiculous. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:28, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Looking at that list, I'm assuming that &quot;ridiculous transformation&quot; is the one major factor. I could nominate [[Signal Lancer]] and his friend [[Pay phone refugee]] on that criterion.<br /> :::::If we're going for the whole package, [[Misfire]]'s gotta be on there somewhere. I have a big soft spot for the fellow, but there's no getting around a Con that can't shoot being ridiculous. Plus he's the only male TF I can think of off-hand that canonically has ''pink'' as his main color. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 13:43, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::[[Sky Lynx (Energon Wars)|''Energon Wars'' Sky Lynx.]] He's pointlessly obscure, to boot! (And yes, definitely the Victory Decepti-wives.) [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 16:15, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Eh, their focus seems to be different than ours. They're internet hipsters mocking things you thought were cool when you were a kid (something that's in plentiful supply on the interwebs). They're not looking very deeply, and have constrained themselves to US G1 because that's all most people even remember exists. So it plays to their target audience, rather than people that actually pay attention to the brand.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 13:35, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::True, but I've always been of the firm belief that if your parody doesn't focus what actually ''is'' wrong/stupid about the thing you're picking on, instead of just generic put-downs, you should step back and let someone who actually knows comedy do the writing. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 13:43, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I don't have a problem with their targets being so generic... I just think the nits they picked were so... ''obvious''. And not very accurate. (Apparently Blaster is inherently racist?)<br /> ::Sky-Bite! Awesome '''and''' ridiculous. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:47, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Well, yes, pretty much. Saying Megatron or Scorponok are ridiculous is kind of missing the mark. Especially when, as you say, there are TFs who are quite delicious in their actual ridiculousness.<br /> :::I mean, now that I think about it, in addition to my nominations above, there's also [[Shortround]], a toy-collecting dork of a Con with a hopeless crush on the &quot;hot chick&quot;, who can also be mistransformed into looking like a toilet just to polish it all off. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:04, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> [[Heinrad]] is definitely up there with the most ridiculous, as are the [[Jointron]]s..but I'm sure you've already thought of them. -[[User:Mazenoise|Mazenoise]] 14:19, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Much as I love the KP TFs, [[Glit]]'s profile always makes me wonder why A.) he is a Decepticon and B.) how on Cybertron he's still alive. Gary Stu right there. [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 14:49, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Dude. They used Wikia as their resource. Of course they, and their article, suck. [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 16:16, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> [http://deriksmith.livejournal.com/40853.html List is up], thanks for all the help guys! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:21, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Consensus on the Allspark seems to be that your list has much better choices but needs more humor in the descriptions. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 11:05, 24 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Aww. I think the Wiki has ruined me with it's dryly informative style. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 12:27, 24 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::You just need practice in channeling copious amounts of sarcastic hyperbolic incredulity when chronicaling stuff that's ridiculous. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:38, 24 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Four hour downtime of June 24 ==<br /> <br /> So, was today's downtime caused by massive server backlog of people wanting to add info to Revenge of the Fallen, or did we just get another unforseen downtime again? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 17:23, 24 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Probably the latter. We'd more likely get a shitload of visitors than a shitload of editors. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 17:28, 24 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :It was most assuredly the former. The server has not actually been down at all. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 23:53, 24 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Wow, so we actually had would-be-contributor overload? Guess I'm gonna have to see the movie by this weekend or I won't be able to visit here at all w/o accidentally getting spoiled for every little thing before I get the chance to watch it. --[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 01:46, 25 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Ouch, well, I didn't expect that. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:39, 25 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::If the problem was a flood of people trying to edit the movie articles, would locking some of them against unregistered users prevent a repeat of yesterday? Or is the flood likely to be over? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 07:17, 25 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :It happened again today, at roughly the same time for almost the same period. Did anybody else experience this apparent downtime or is it just me? I tried to make a comment about it earlier, but it stopped loading again. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 02:42, 26 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Yes, it did. McFly's been working on the problem. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 03:08, 26 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Ahh good. I thought it was only happening to me/I was going insane. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:52, 27 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Lag's been pretty bad today, though it appears to clear up now and then. (I'm taking advantage of an apparent lull right now to post this.) I guess we just have to be patient until McFly and/or Scout get a chance to do something substantial about it. Do we have any clearer idea of what it would take, both in terms of money and effort, to alleviate this sort of thing, at least?--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 18:14, 29 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::When I asked about upgrading to a more expensive hosting plan, McFly said that wouldn't help because we're not utilising the current server fully[http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=51208&amp;view=findpost&amp;p=1259877]. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:12, 29 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Well, we are now, in that Apache (the web server) is fighting for resources against the database, and Apache is, to put it mildly, a fucking pig. I can spend days going on about how utterly broken Apache is, as it is effectively a wonderful Swiss Army Knife when all we need is a working goddamned X-Acto, but to make a long story short: We can either cache pages for anons (as we currently do by running Apache with Squid caching most of the content,) or we can process PHP code (that is, EVERY FREAKING PAGE) faster, without the benefit of caching, as every test with Squid in front of a lighter web server (nginx in our case, though lighttpd is similarly sparse on feedback) has resulted in Utter Goddamned Failure. To say that I'm at my wit's end is a bit of an understatement, though the bigger scare for me is trying to figure out what can be moved where in order to skirt around these problems entirely while staying within a reasonable budget. --[[User:McFly|McFly]] 23:15, 30 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::I assume you don't mean '''now'''. According to the [http://www.google.com/trends?q=transformers Google Trends] data for Transformers... search volume for Transformers spiked at ~950% of &quot;normal&quot; on the opening weekend of &quot;Transformers (2007).&quot; We can expect them to drop back down to 'merely' twice normal within 5-6 weeks (maybe a 50% drop in the next 10-12 days) and long curve out from there. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:06, 1 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::...What in blazes are you getting at? What, precisely, does a spike in 2007 have to do with a server that was only brought online in mid-2009? This is an issue with the ''performance of the current server,'' which is utterly unrelated to ANY search volume OR traffic spikes in 2007, back when Wikia was doing the hosting for free, with many more servers, much more infrastructure overall, and more server-side staff. Of course, if you would '''like''' for us to start obscuring content with CSS-breaking ads of minimal relevance and relatively low conversion rate, I'm sure we can arrange that. &quot;Normal&quot; has nothing to do with *anything* that you're currently talking about, and everything to do with '''the stats of the current server,''' which has close to 2 million hits only halfway through TODAY. --[[User:McFly|McFly]] 12:16, 1 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::I think he's trying to say that 2007 could be used as a traffic ''predictor'', McFly. As in traffic spiked by a similar amount then, and can probably be expected to return to &quot;normal&quot; levels at a similar rate. I don't think it's a commentary on Wikia's hosting practices at all, just as an indicator of &quot;this is what a major motion picture does to the number of people looking for Transformers information.&quot;--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 12:42, 1 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::That makes sense as a bit of analysis, but not in the context of the conversation. Alden quoted my claim that we weren't using the server fully. I updated with the fact that we *are* using it fully at this point, in that there are points in time where we are using up all but a few megabytes of RAM just trying to serve up pages. Derik attempted to correct with stats that are completely irrelevant to that situation. We already knew about the &quot;why,&quot; and at this point, we're just assessing the damage in order to shore up the levees for next time. --[[User:McFly|McFly]] 12:58, 1 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::I was not attempting to correct your assessment of server stats-- I don't even have access to them.<br /> :::::::::::You seemed to be suggesting some sort of major reconfiguration in order to handle these kinds of traffic levels and &quot;skirt around these problems while staying within a reasonable budget.&quot;<br /> :::::::::::I was just pointing out that our current traffic level was ''very'' temporary, tied to the movie, and presented a google search traffic chart as an illustration of the way the generalized interest in Transformers spiked around the 2007 movie, and showing that the 2009 movie was (so far) following the same patten, and our traffic would probably see a ''radical'' drop-off within the next few weeks.<br /> :::::::::::So what I was asking is... &quot;are you suggesting we do something to restructure ''now'', or should we weather the problem for another 2 weeks, knowing that a 50% drop in traffic is probably coming and try to fix it when the server ''isn't'' vomiting everywhere?&quot; I wanted to know if you were talkign about long-term changes we needed to make, or immediate-term ones.<br /> :::::::::::I don't know where you got Wikia out of it. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:24, 9 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::::::So, upshot is that we're stuck like this for the foreseeable future, barring a major revelation from on high to you of a workable solution. Dang. Well, your effort's appreciated, regardless.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 01:40, 1 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::::::''&quot;What in blazes are you getting at? What, precisely, does a spike in 2007 have to do with a server that was only brought online in mid-2009? This is an issue with the performance of the current server, which is utterly unrelated to ANY search volume OR traffic spikes&quot;'' Wow. This quote is brilliant. Encapsulates a lot of......... real life and Transformers issues. Like a microcosm of the fandom, in a single quote. [[User:Drmick|Drmick]] 13:03, 1 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::Admittedly, I was a bit... enthusiastic in my reaction. However, as noted in my response to [[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]], feeding contextually irrelevant info doesn't really help out. It's not that we didn't know about the incoming spike, it's that we didn't know just what we'd need to throw at the problem. What we don't know about the two previous hosts (Wikia, then Bookworm) could fill a few bookshelves, and it's all of that info which we're stuck at digging up solely via trial and error. It's basically crash-testing a scratch-built car without any notes about how to set up crumplezones or airbags or seat belt tensioners.--[[User:McFly|McFly]] 13:34, 1 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::Can you still learn a lot from a dummy?--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 13:44, 1 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::Well, we '''did''' buckle up. Problem is, the seat belts didn't retract fast enough, the airbag suffocated the driver, and the crumplezones failed, pushing the engine ''through'' our shins. On the upside, our prototype car has decent handling, acceptable acceleration, and it passed emissions testing! Now if we can just tackle those pesky side-impact explosions...--[[User:McFly|McFly]] 14:02, 1 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == 9000 articles ==<br /> <br /> Not long now until we hit 5 figures! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 20:09, 28 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Yep. :D So we've got...<br /> :* 8000th article: [[Ego]] on January 25th, 2009<br /> :* 9000th article: [[Michael York]] on June 28th, 2009<br /> :Whoo-hoo! --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 20:17, 28 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Affiliate sites ==<br /> <br /> Over at [[Template:External]], I've been poking at the coding that flags certain external links. (It's been doing this in External Links sectiosn for months, and there was a discussion... somewhere... where we agreed that everyone was okay with these sites beign thus flagged.)<br /> <br /> Here's my thing... if we consider these guys preferred content providers... we should reward them. I think we should disable rel=nofollow for these sites. (Something that makes our links to them not be 'counted' in search engines.)<br /> <br /> Also-- I notice that rel=nofollow has been ''reset'' for Wookieepedia-- it had been off, part of our 'friends of' networking program. The setting probably got un-flagged in the software upgrade. We should fix that. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:18, 30 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Sounds good to me. We trust these sites, so it shouldn't be an issue if we unnofollow the links to them. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 03:05, 30 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :While I'm thinking about it, we should also un-nofollow the links on [[Main Page]] to our status/twitter/facebook pages. I'm not sure how or where the whitelist is set, so I think that's probably a task for [[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]]. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:40, 8 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> And also we should do the same for the Cybertron Chonicle (cybertronchronicle.freewebspace.com) and RiD Forever (ridforever.info) on the G1 and RID cartoon pages, respectively. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 04:19, 20 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Our tech-people being apparently busy, I'm going to point out that the ''mechanism'' for making this change is made in &lt;tt&gt;LocalSettings.php&lt;/tt&gt;, and follows this basic format;<br /> :&lt;tt&gt;$wgNoFollowDomainExceptions = array( 'en.wikipedia.org', 'wiktionary.org' );&lt;/tt&gt;<br /> :-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 09:51, 1 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::I think only the tech people have access to change that file. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 20:44, 1 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Firefox 3.5 ==<br /> <br /> Firefox is launching [http://scitech.blogs.cnn.com/2009/07/01/first-impressions-of-firefox-3-5/ it's first major upgrade in 18 months], and it sounds like there's signifigant under-the-hood reccoding to make it lighter and faster.<br /> <br /> Please report any problems associated with the new version here. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 15:09, 1 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I've been using it since the beta. I've noticed no major issues with the site, and I've had it for months. The major under-the-hood stuff was related to javascript parsing, and our functions that depend on it (image description previews, faction symbol, etc.) seem to work just fine.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 15:13, 1 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :The History javascript problem is still there, but I'm hoping it disappears when we upgrade MediaWiki. I dunno about lighter and faster, but Firefox no longer properly terminates when I close it. Grrr. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:13, 6 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Size-scale references ==<br /> someone is adding the scale size to a lot of the ROTF toys, and I was wondering A) if anyone cares considering they're not supposed to be any scale like the alternators/binaltech, and B) should we stop it before it gets outa hand. I don't think we need this information, personally, but maybe the rest of you disagree. it poses the problem of adding this ridiculous scale system to EVERY page on here. [[User:Cliffjumper prime|Cliffjumper prime]] 18:49, 1 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Nope, I don't care for noting scale unless it's some sort of unusual circumstance that should be noted (say a toy that turns into a train fitting on whatever scale train tracks). And like somebody who asked us to list the heights of every modern toy ever made, I'm not going to waste my time listing scales and such. I have more important things to do on the wiki. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 18:55, 1 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I especially thought it was pointless considering a lot of more recent toys are simply approximations of real vehicles, or altered versions, not the real thing. [[User:Cliffjumper prime|Cliffjumper prime]] 19:10, 1 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I'd rather reserve the whole size-scaling thing for JUST Binaltech/Alternators and Alternity! --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 19:47, 1 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Oh, definitely. When scale is explicitly called for (1:24 Alternators, 1:32 Alternity, whatever else Takara tries) we should point it out, but otherwise it's just stupid. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 19:51, 1 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Changes to comic issue format ==<br /> <br /> I'd like to propose two changes to our comic issue format.<br /> # I think that, when available, the 'covers' section should present the covers without copy. Virtually every TF comic printed this decade has had its cover art previewed online without the title, issue-box, etc. I'm not suggesting that old content should be purged... just that there should be an official ''preference'' for copy-free covers.<br /> # I'd like to propose a 'Reprints and Collections' section near the bottom of comic pages, like the [[The_Insecticon_Syndrome#Home_video_releases|video release]] section found on some episodes. (This particularly applies to Marvel UK stuff.) It'd look something like this;<br /> &lt;div style=&quot;margin:0 1em;padding:1em;border:dashed 1px #999;background-color:#e9e9e9;&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;Reprints / Collections&lt;/b&gt;<br /> * Reprinted in ''Transformers'' Collected Comics #8 (1986) — ''UK only''<br /> * Reprinted with Issue #98 as Marvel Comics (US) #34<br /> * '''Recolored''' and reprinted in Marvel UK's &quot;1990 Transformer Annual&quot; (1989) — ''UK only''<br /> * Collected in the Titan Trade paperback collections &quot;[[Primal Scream (Titan)|Primal Scream]]&quot; and &quot;[[Matrix Quest (Titan)|Matrix Quest]]&quot; (1997)<br /> * Reprinted in IDW's &quot;Transformer Generations #16&quot; (2006)<br /> &lt;/div&gt;<br /> <br /> No single set template format can adequately describe the way Transformers stories are printed, collected, bundled, broken up, recolored, excerpted etc etc etc. A plain English approach (allowing for in/as/with etc...) seems best. (The above examples are kind of a mess... I was trying to throw in as many oddball scenarios as possible.)<br /> <br /> Our existing comic template accommodates two publications for US and UK Marvel stuff... but a UK story might've been reprinted in the UK, ported to the US and bundled with another issue, gotten a 'Collected Comics' edition, been recolored for an annual, then gotten Titan releases in color ''or'' black and White... and that's without even ''getting into'' the IDW reprint series, which've had ''their own'' trade paperback collections...<br /> <br /> It really just '''needs''' its own section. So I'm proposing one and seeing what other people think. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:14, 8 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I disagree pretty strongly with point #1. In the &quot;covers&quot; section, we're documenting the actual, physical comic covers, are we not? What you propose seems like it belongs in a seperate &quot;cover art&quot; section. Does that distinction make sense? --[[User:Salt-Man Z|Salt-Man Z]] 17:15, 23 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == New templates for toy releaess? ==<br /> <br /> In addition to the &quot;comingsoontoy&quot; template, I propose adopting one or two more templates that indicate a toy has been officially released on another market but not in the USA yet. Usually this is merely a matter of a few weeks, but in some instances it could mean several months of waiting (see ROTF Legends Constructicons). My main reasoning is that a) listing a toy as &quot;coming soon&quot; when you can already buy it in another country (Japan, other Hasbro markets) seems a little too US-centric, and b) listing a toy as &quot;out&quot; even though it's not actually out at US retail yet is equally awkward. So I propose a tag to indicate a middle status. Either one single tag, or two, one to indicate a TakaraTomy release and another to indicate non-US market Hasbro releases. Furthermore, we might also adopt one or two similar tags to indicate that some toys/multi-packs are/were ''exclusively'' available outside the USA, such as various Takara-only redecos, European late-G1 toys and such.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 15:39, 19 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Upload image templates ==<br /> <br /> A discussion about adding a list of insertable templates to the [[Special:Upload|Upload form]] a couple months ago got derailed by the rush of other higher priories. I re-visit it now;<br /> <br /> If you're running [[User:Derik/kired_tools|Kired Tools]], a (perfunctory) list of image templates will now appear in your Upload form. This is being drawn from [[User:Derik/Sandbox10]], so '''feel free''' to add to it, edit it, experiment, etc... there are a ''lot'' of image templates, and I'd like to try to figure out how to handle such a dense list... good.<br /> <br /> Responses appreciated. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 09:42, 21 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Category Proliferation ==<br /> OK, just because you can make a theoretical grouping of seven or more characters, doesn't mean that it's wise or advisable to do so. We should limit ourselves to groupings that people might actually be interested in. The more categories we make, the harder it is to keep them all complete. Having an incomplete category is far worse than having no category. The natural assumption is that a category is exhaustive, so an incomplete category is basically misinformation - it implies that we've listed all of something when in fact we have not. Adding in more noise does not help anyone and gives us that much more inventory to mange without creating real value. --[[User:Jimsorenson|Jimsorenson]] 02:48, 22 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Great! Now digest that and write [[Help:Categories]]! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:26, 22 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::[[Help:Categories#Bad_categories|Okay.]]--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 12:07, 29 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Pointing out redirects while editing ==<br /> <br /> Was trying to think of something less annoying than a blink tag. Maybe have them followed by a small graphic to denote them on the edit screen? Perhaps a scaled down version of [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/U-turn_icon.svg/398px-U-turn_icon.svg.png this]?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 14:29, 22 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I think the point is that they're ''supposed'' to be annoying, so you easily notice them and feel compelled to fix them. The instances where a redirect is the &quot;correct&quot; linkage are rare enough that I don't see it as a big deal to ignore the blinking in those cases. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:37, 22 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I still think a yellow u-turn icon is obvious enough.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 14:39, 22 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I guess I just don't see it as a big deal, since you're only going to see it for the 30 seconds it takes to fix the link and refresh the preview anyway. (Plus, I actually find the yellow more annoying than the blinking, though it does make them nice and easy to pick out while scanning.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:46, 22 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I can see where Rosh is going... when you're drafting an extensive change, at some point you're re-reading the entire thing to try and see if it 'feels right' before committing the save. The blink tag is ''very'' distracting... making it hard to ignore to judge the overall 'feel' of the page.<br /> :::The real appeal of it, OTOH, is that the blink tag is the one thing you can be ''sure'' will always work-- because blink isn't used anywhere else. Storylinks (for example) have ''inline'' background and border colors-- I think those would ''override'' the yellow background of redirects, so they wouldn't show up. But because no one ''ever'' uses &quot;blink,&quot; blink will always show up.<br /> :::I'd be open to adding the image... but I think (for example) if a prev/next link on a comic issue template was pointed at a re-direct... it would totally break the layout of the button because it imposes padding and background attributes that either:<br /> :::#Won't show up (overriden by the template styles) so there's no indicator that the link is a redirect.<br /> :::#Will show up-- and then break the template which was never intended to accommodate this.<br /> :::(I'm having trouble picture which.) Basically as set up, it's a 'least offensive solutiont hat will always work.'<br /> :::IIRC, we already have redirects with a yellow background and double-underline. So if Rosh wants, I can show him the code to ''turn off'' the blinking in his own CSS file and he can evaluate how it looks/try other solutions to propose. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 15:31, 22 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Well, like I said, if I spot redirects to fix when previewing, I quickly fix all of them and then preview again to check for more possible mistakes.<br /> ::::I will say that the yellow and underlines do indeed show up over the grey of the storylinks, though, as I've come across more than a few &quot;Shattered Glass (comic)&quot; links in my editing. But that's in Opera 9.x; I can't speak for other browsers. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 15:41, 22 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Image templates for video game images and screen captures? ==<br /> <br /> Hey guys, do we have an image/copyright template for video game images (covers ect) and their screenshots? If not, we should consider making one at least for the big three english language series of TF games: The Armada PS2 game, the 2007 TF movie game'''s''', and the ROTF game'''s''' (please be aware there are several games under 2007 TF and ROTF). What do you guys think? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 07:35, 25 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Perhaps we can create a series of the gamecap template just like [[Template:screencap|screencap]], which is used to create G1cap, BWcap, BMcap, TFAcap and so on. I think there can be a [[Template:gamecap]], which can be used to create Template:armadagame, 2007game, Template:rotfgame and more (if needed).<br /> <br /> :And, since there are many games under 2007 TF and ROTF, 2007game and rotfgame will feature parameter to co-op with the games. --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 11:57, 25 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Screencap is already tailored to handle video game screenshots, and can take enough optional parameters that the ownership can be easily identified. Are we really going to have enough screenshots from each game to dedicate a template to each? It's not that hard to type out manually.<br /> <br /> ::I do agree with FFN that something for non-screenshot images from video games might be in order, perhaps based off of the comic cover template.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 12:04, 25 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::...and I specifically think creating the &quot;gamecap&quot; template ''anyway'' is a dumb idea. There is no need whatsoever for a generic template for video game screen captures. There is nothing it can do that the screencap template isn't designed to do already.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 12:11, 25 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::''Are we really going to have enough screenshots from each game to dedicate a template to each?''<br /> :::::Yes we already do. Unfortunately, the guy who uploaded most of them seems to have disappeared.<br /> ::::''It's not that hard to type out manually.''<br /> :::::Try telling yourself that when you're the one actually writing it, yes? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:08, 29 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :No necessarily a dumb idea in some way, the [[User:TX55/Sandbags 6|gamecap]] template is more convenient than using screencap for game screen.<br /> <br /> :Take [[:Image:Tidalwave_pushup.gif]] for example, when using screencap, we need to typing:<br /> &lt;pre&gt;<br /> [[Tidal Wave (Armada)|Tidal Wave]] knows regular exercise is the key to a healthy lifestyle.<br /> <br /> {{c}} 2004 Melbourne House and Atari<br /> {{screencap<br /> |source= the PS2 video game &quot;[[Transformers (Melbourne House)|Transformers]]&quot;<br /> |owner=Melbourne House and Atari<br /> |nocategory=true<br /> }}<br /> [[Category:Screen captures from video games]]<br /> &lt;/pre&gt;<br /> <br /> :While using gamecap, we only need to type<br /> &lt;pre&gt;<br /> {{gamecap|<br /> [[Tidal Wave (Armada)|Tidal Wave]] knows [[Humanization|regular exercise is the key to a healthy lifestyle]].|<br /> [[Transformers (Melbourne House)|Transformers]]|<br /> Melbourne House and Atari|<br /> 2004<br /> }}<br /> &lt;/pre&gt;<br /> :without parameters such as &quot;source=&quot;, &quot;owner=&quot;, &quot;nocategory=true&quot; or &quot;Category:Screen captures from video games&quot;<br /> :--'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 13:23, 25 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::That doesn't look like much work saved, to me.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 19:34, 25 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Well, the template is kinda like G1cap, BWcap or TFAcap, which only need &lt;description&gt;, &lt;source&gt;, &lt;year&gt; and doesn't need to type those parameters mentioned above as well. --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 21:18, 25 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Except all those examples autofill most of the fields the screencap template needs. Here, you're entering roughly the same amount of information you'd need to use the naked screencap template. It's an extra level of transclusion with very little payoff in terms of time/work saved.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 21:21, 25 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::::I don't feel much, for the most apparent thing, at least we won't need to fill nocategory=true and Category:Screen captures from video games, just like the G1cap and others. --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 21:27, 25 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::::As for the non-game-screenshot, I've created a [[User:TX55/Sandbags 6c‎|concept]] for various covers which are not comicbook covers. --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 08:25, 26 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::::::Hey, I like the prototype template. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 14:08, 29 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::::::Thank you. ^^ Right now I think I need to search out which pictures are from games so I can figure out what should be done in the next move. --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 23:53, 29 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Shattered Glass Character Categories ==<br /> <br /> Anyone I catch adding redundant &quot;Decepticons&quot; or &quot;Shattered Glass characters&quot; categories to any character already in the &quot;Mayhem Supression Squad&quot; category is GETTING FED TO GRIMLOCK. Their omission not a mistake! Stop adding them back in! :P&lt;br /&gt;<br /> ...sorry, I just had to get that off my chest. Carry on. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 11:47, 29 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> :In less ranting thoughts, I had been considering making a category to denote which characters are &quot;Alpha Trion's acolytes&quot;. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:55, 29 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::A &quot;factions of the Shattered Glass Universe&quot; catch-all page might be interesting, showing the Elite Guard, the Wreckers, Trion's forces, Optimus' loyalists, etc.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 18:05, 29 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Well, it's pretty much... we already have the Seekers, Dinobots, Elite Guard, and Technobots in those existing categories, and we should put the Wreckers in the existing category too (though do we even know any of the former Wreckers in SG other than Rodimus?). And we don't have enough of Optimus Prime's loyalists named to make a category for it - only Blurr, Nightbeat, Ironhide, and Grimlock.<br /> :::Or were you talking about some sort of umbrella category and/or article? --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:28, 29 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::An article, rather than a category. While we &quot;hate lists&quot; here, an article exploring the political situation and factions of the continuity could be informative.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 18:47, 29 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Ah. I could get behind that. Especially since we have the ABN crew, the Micromasters, the Targetmasters, the Terrorcons, the Mayhem Suppression Squad, the Predacons, and Astrotrain's squad as well. There's also Arkeville and his interns on the humans' side. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:51, 29 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Mold reusage list ==<br /> <br /> I've been working on a list that lists the most reused molds. Sorted after Toyline and alphabetical order. Now I would like to know if this would be a useful piece of information or if it's uninteresting for the wiki. Check out the current poor and far from finished version [[User:Dead Metal/DMsscrapheap|here]]. Should I continue working on it or stop and erase it.[[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 13:09, 29 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ==Robot Heroes Organization==<br /> Allright. Robot Heroes from the first movie being listed below Revenge of the Fallen RPMs [[Brawl (Movie)|in characters' Merchandise sections]] is giving me a headache. Right now, the toy/merch lists are treating Robot Heroes as their own line, when they've really all been branded as subsets of other lines - you have TF 2007 Robot Heroes, Universe Robot Heroes, and ROTF Robot Heroes. Right now, the lists are mis-representating this aspect of the figures; I don't know who began the practice, because that info was wiped out in the crash.<br /> <br /> I move to, at least, put the Robot Heroes under their respective franchise banners in characters' Merchandise sections {{m-}} most relevant for movie-based characters, I grant, but characters having Merch/TF2007/Robot Heroes and Merch/ROTF/Robot Heroes sections makes more sense to me, as it makes it more like the toy sections. For other characters - let's say Perceptor - it could go Merchandise/Universe/Robot Heroes, or maybe Merchandise/Universe.<br /> <br /> I considered starting on this myself tonight, but I'm tossing it out for opinions first. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 04:36, 31 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Relicensing vote ==<br /> <br /> TFWiki.net has until midnight tonight to decide whether if we want to switch from a GFDL license to a CC-BY-SA3 license. <br /> <br /> I've been studying the issue, and I have [[Transformers_Wiki_talk:Community_Portal/Relicensing#Suggested_direction|some thoughts]] on the direction I think we should go in terms of licensing. (As long as we're switching over, let's actually get it ''right''.) But none of that has to be done ''now'', the actual relicensing has to be performed tonight, and I'm calling for a vote.<br /> <br /> *[[User:Derik]] votes we '''switch''' to CC-BY-SA3. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 15:38, 31 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> *[[User:Jeysie ]] still votes to '''switch''' to CC-BY-SA3. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 15:40, 31 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> *[[User:Rosicrucian]] votes we '''switch''' to CC-BY-SA3 and is in favor of Derik's opinion draft on potential wrinkles and assertions we can make.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 15:43, 31 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> *[[User:Starfield]] votes we '''drop all licenses''' and go without one. I normally wouldn't give my opinion on this, but since you seem to be soliciting my vote, there it is. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:01, 31 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> **[[User:Derik]] points out that that would make us GFDL, (whether we acknowledged it or not) because we don't have a legal right to drop their license. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:05, 31 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> *[[User:Dead Metal]] votes we '''switch''' to CC-BY-SA3 [[User:Dead Metal|Dead Metal]] 16:03, 31 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> *[[User:DrSpengler]] (who is at work and cannot log in) votes we '''switch''' to CC-BY-SA3. --DrSpengler (at work)<br /> *[[User:Lonegamer78]] votes we '''switch''' to CC-BY-SA3. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 16:57, 31 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> *[[User:MrBlud]] votes we '''switch''' to CC-BY-SA3. [[User:MrBlud|MrBlud]] 17:17, 31 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> *[[User:Jackpot]] votes we '''switch''' to 007 and shoot anyone who steals our shit. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 19:14, 31 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> *[[User:Shellshock]] votes we '''switch''' to CC-BY-SA3. [[User:Shellshock|Shellshock]] 20:02, 31 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> *[[User:TX55]] votes we '''switch''' to CC-BY-SA3.<br /> --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 21:07, 31 July 2009 (EDT)<br /> *[[User:ACIDSTORM92]] votes we '''switch''' to CC-BY-SA3.--[[User:ACIDSTORM92|ACIDSTORM92]] 00:02, 1 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> *Nuts, I missed the deadline while I was working, and didn't see the vote listed in Recent Changes until now. FWIW, [[User:Apcog]] would've voted to '''switch'''. I'm still not 100% certain of all aspects of CC-BY-SA3, but it currently seems better than standing pat.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 02:21, 1 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> **Language in the GFDL relicensing clause simply says 'By August 1.' Your vote is still valid for [http://www.worldtimezone.com/time/wtzresult.php?CiID=42241 4 hours yet.] -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:56, 1 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> *[[User:abates]] votes we '''switch''' to CC-BY-SA3. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 04:32, 1 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> *[[User:FFN]] votes we '''switch''' to CC-BY-SA3. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 07:29, 1 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> === Relicencing vote outcome ===<br /> <br /> &lt;div style=&quot;border:solid 1px #999;background-color:#f9f9f9; padding:2em;margin: 1em 2em;&quot;&gt;On July 31, 2009, TFWiki.net conducted a community vote about whether our content licensing should remain GFDL or switch to CC-BY-SA3 as afforded under the provisions of GFDL 1.3<br /> <br /> In low turnout, 86% of votes cast were in favor of the switch to CC-BY-SA3. No votes were in favor of remaining to GFDL, and two votes cast in favor of general lawlessness.<br /> <br /> The result of this voting being in line with previous general discussion on the subject, and 3 of 3 administrators being in favor of the change, I assert that at a time of 23:59:59 GMT-12 the operating body of TFWiki.net had voted to switch to CC-BY-SA3 and declare on my bare authority that all articles on this site have been so republished.<br /> <br /> May God uphold the right. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 08:08, 1 August 2009 (EDT)&lt;/div&gt;<br /> <br /> I request that Suki or McFly set &lt;tt&gt;$wgRightsText&lt;/tt&gt; in LocalSettings.php to be &quot;CC-BY-SA&quot;, in accordance with this change. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 08:08, 1 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> === Did anything happen? ===<br /> The footer says GFDL; the editing page says GFDL; [[Transformers Wiki:Copyrights]] still says GFDL... Did anything get changed at all in time? --[[User:Fleb|fleb]] 00:02, 4 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Also [[Transformers Wiki:General disclaimer]] - that and [[Transformers Wiki:Copyrights]] are easily updatable (Derik?), but only McFly or Suki Brits have access to change the configuration file to correct the other messages. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 00:18, 4 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :We held a vote and declared the change had taken place. That the admins are slow in making the necessary changes is annoying, but does not change the underlying reality. (Even a storekeeper must be allowed time to repaint his signs.)<br /> :I have refrained from editing the other instances where it says GFDL to make a proper clean transition when our web-bravos get off their asses. Anyone else si free to do it though... we ''have'' transitioned. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:23, 4 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Ah, fair enough too! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 03:05, 4 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::My apologies for not checking three days ago. ''It is fixed.'' --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 03:25, 4 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Marvel UK issue pages ==<br /> <br /> I feel that we need to make a change with how we handle Marvel UK comic issues. The UK comics split most of its stories up over multiple issues, and even reprinted some of the split up in a ''different'' way. This has led the story articles to become bloated with non-story info (covers, letter pages, other comics from the same issue, contests, ads) for multiple issues on a single story page. Also, navigating the UK comic is a pain in the ass, as many issues having two stories (one issue has ''three''!), as well as the reprints.<br /> <br /> Here's what I suggest we do:<br /> <br /> * '''Make &quot;hub&quot; pages for the individual issues.''' These pages will cover issue-specific things. Those UK cover scans clogging up every Marvel Transformer story? They go here. As does information from that issue's letter pages, ads, TransFormations, and anything else that isn't a part of the actual stories. Also, there will be a list of what each issue contains, mostly the TOC from the issue itself. Non-Transformers backup strips (Machine Man, Action Force) should need nothing more beyond the name of the series and the title of the story unless more info is given in the cover, letters page, TransFormations, Coming Attractions or the like. The TOC will also have links to our story articles.<br /> <br /> *'''Leave the story articles mostly unchanged''' The UK comic usually treated the stories like serials (think the early Flash Gotdon films or the original Doctor Who series), so splitting them up makes no sense. Aside from moving the issue-specific stuff to the hub pages, the only changes needed will be removing the story navigation box from the UK-original stories, removal of the UK navigation from the stories written for the US comic, and adding any needed &quot;Reprinted in&quot; links, and putting &quot;Originally printed in&quot; links on the stories written for the UK comic.<br /> <br /> Marvel US 33 &amp; 34 (Man of Iron!) and Action Force 24-27 (Ancient Relics!) would be handled in the same way. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 17:40, 1 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :So you're suggesting that ''any'' issue which contained multiple discontinuous stories get a page for the issue, and a page for both stories? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:37, 1 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :: Not exactly. Marvel UK is a special case because these multiple discontinuous stories are broken up over multiple issues. We would still have one page for Time Wars. I'll put together a sample tommorow. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 00:51, 2 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I have a ''very'' rough example at [[User:FortMax/Sandbox]]. The main reason I feel this needs to be done is because not only does the UK comic non only have multiple stories in each issue, these stories get spread out over multiple issues. For example, [[Time Wars]] was printed over seven issues. --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 12:04, 2 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::That makes sense... a 'landing page.' I'm tentatively in favor of it... but I'd like to see what others say. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 15:40, 2 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Concept arts of questionable nature ==<br /> <br /> As we all know, there are some concept art images out there of various Transformers in ''[[Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen]]'' that we have up until now considered to be leaked art and will not use. However, it has come to my attention that Wikipedia is using this art without issue in their articles, as are our &quot;friends&quot; over at Wikia. I wanted to ask the powers that be what to do here, so can someone give me an opinion? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 19:21, 2 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I don't consider either of those a ringing endorsement. Yes, these are likely actual concept art, but I believe they are still leaked. The only officially released concept art we've been getting has been mostly through Josh Nizzi.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 19:42, 2 August 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::And I should probably elaborate on why I don't think Wikipedia using these images means we ought to (Wikia not being a good indicator should be obvious). Wikipedia has... well, both more and less copyright restrictions than we do. They are bigger wonks about the letter of the law and fair use justifications, and it may well be that the resident copyright nigglers just haven't spotted these images yet. Wikipedia is an enormous site, and that means there's large swaths of terra incognita where you can get away with nearly everything, just because the more anal-retentive users don't frequent them. On the other hand, Wikipedia has no real policy whatsoever on leaked information or images, and we do. That makes our criteria for use and retention of images wildly different from theirs.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 19:52, 2 August 2009 (EDT)</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki_talk:Community_Portal&diff=318667 2009-06-25T03:53:56Z

<p>Suki Brits: /* Four hour downtime of June 24 */</p> <hr /> <div>__NEWSECTIONLINK__<br /> <br /> This is the place for discussion of topics that affect the entire wiki. Some topics that would ordinarily be here have merited their own pages:<br /> <br /> '''The move away from Wikia:'''<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki:Community Portal/Complaints]]<br /> <br /> '''Our policy on having ads in the wiki:'''<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki:Ads]]<br /> <br /> '''The Bookworm database-crash:'''<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central]]<br /> * [[Project:Bookworm Crash]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving2]]<br /> <br /> '''The server move:'''<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving2]]<br /> <br /> {{chapters<br /> |title=Community Portal Archives<br /> |content=*[[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive1|Archive 1]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive2|Archive 2]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive3|Archive 3]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive4|Archive 4]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive5|Archive 5]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive6|Archive 6]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive7|Archive 7]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive8|Archive 8]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive9|Archive 9]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive10|Archive 10]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive11|Archive 11]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive12|Archive 12]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive13|Archive 13]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive14|Archive 14]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive15|Archive 15]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive16|Archive 16]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive17|Archive 17]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive18|Archive 18]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive19|Archive 19]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive20|Archive 20]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive21|Archive 21]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive22|Archive 22]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive23|Archive 23]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive24|Archive 24]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive25|Archive 25]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive26|Archive 26]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive27|Archive 27]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive28|Archive 28]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive29|Archive 29]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive30|Archive 30]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive31|Archive 31]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive32|Archive 32]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive33|Archive 33]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> <br /> == Quotes ==<br /> {{note|This discussion was moved from [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central#Quotes]].}}<br /> <br /> Quotes now seem to look like this:<br /> <br /> {{quote|Freedom is the right of all sentient beings|Optimus Prime}}<br /> <br /> when IIRC before the crash they look like this:<br /> <br /> {{bigquote|Freedom is the right of all sentient beings|Optimus Prime}}<br /> <br /> Now, it seems we can get the second result using the &lt;nowiki&gt;{{bigquote}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; template instead of the basic &lt;nowiki&gt;{{quote}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; template that is currently populating most of the pages.<br /> <br /> I'm of the opinion that the bigquote look is much more pleasing to the eye and it also seemed to be the norm before the crash. Should we change the quotes to bigquotes on individual pages or just have someone with template knowledge make a change there? --[[User:Bluestreak7|Bluestreak7]] 23:29, 5 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Discussion on [[Template_talk:Quote]] suggests that bigquote is the old style and quote is the new style. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 01:37, 6 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Mind you I didn't ''ask'' anyone before swapping styles-- the intention was to give people a chance to evaluate the new look, but we only had it for a few days before the crash... so I don't think anyone noticed. :p<br /> ::It's my opinion that the old quote template took up too much space-- which is find for a single quote at the top of an article when you want to make a big thing of it, but I thought ''most'' uses of the template would look nicer with s smaller visual footprint. (Plus the html is more contextual.)<br /> ::Some people seem to dislike the chevron-style quoting... it's consistent with what, at the time, were our new reference templates-- also lost in the crash. The real appeal, to me, is that it lets you put quotes ''inside'' the quote template (such as an exchange between characters) without looking weird. The way we ''used'' to do that was multiple quote templates in a row, which (being oversize already) resulted in a massive on-screen footprint.<br /> ::If the consensus is to switch to the bigQuote format for all quotes instead of the smaller one, I guess that's the community's perogative... but I'm gonna argue against it until that decision is made.<br /> ::I ''like'' bitQuote-- it's great if you want a quote to be a big thing. Most of the time you don't. When you do-- why not just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{bigquote}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:48, 6 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Ahhh, my mistake! I coulda sworn I'd seen quote in use longer! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 01:55, 6 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Why I don't like &quot;quote&quot;:<br /> ::#It's ugly.<br /> ::#It's '''bigger''' than bigQuote. That seems to defeat the whole point.<br /> ::#Single guillemots ''don't get used as quotation marks in English'' and so '''they don't parse as quotation marks'''.<br /> ::#It's '''incredibly''' ugly.<br /> ::#And finally-if-slightly-tangentially, there's a conscious effort, it seems, to change all &quot;bigquotes&quot; to &quot;quotes&quot;, which defeats the whole point of having two templates.<br /> ::Definite vote to revert - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 11:35, 6 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> I vote against the revert. I do not like the old quote style, as noted on the above-linked discussion page. All we need to do is change the guillemots to quote marks and it's fine by me. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 04:08, 9 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> In accordance with the general wishes of the community, the quotes have been changed from guillemots to standard quotation... though I think it looks terribly ''silly'' that way. You can see just how silly over at [[Template_talk:Quote]]. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:57, 10 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Well, one day after updating the quote template, I finally ran into ''exactly'' the scenario I was talking about in regards to quotes within quotes. I need to quote this passage (which includes but is not composed exclusively of dialog) for an article. <br /> {{quote|&quot;Farewell Optimus prime,&quot; [Starscream] whispered to himself. &quot;Time for Endspark.&quot;|[[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]|&lt;u&gt;[[Ghosts of Yesterday]]&lt;/u&gt; p280}}<br /> :That looks absolutely retarded. The guillemots may have been ugly-- but they were at least ''clear''. And none of the user suggestions (including [[User:Abates]] idea of using multiple parameters for a series of quotes) applies here-- because the text is ''inline''.<br /> :You all suck. Does anyone have any suggestions ''other'' than guillemots to make that look less retarded? Because &lt;nowiki&gt;{{bigquote}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; looks even ''worse''. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:53, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::[http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp Rule four] suggests it should look like this:<br /> {{quote|'Farewell Optimus prime,' [Starscream] whispered to himself. 'Time for Endspark.'|[[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]|&lt;u&gt;[[Ghosts of Yesterday]]&lt;/u&gt; p280}}<br /> ::although you could also use &amp;lsquo; and &amp;rsquo; maybe? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 03:33, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I have restore the guillemots as an ''optional flag.'' (style=2) The entire ''point'' of using a non-english quotation mark was to avoid conflicts with English quotation marks, so the guillemots seem like a good fallback position when there is a conflict.<br /> {{quote|'Farewell Optimus prime,' [Starscream] whispered to himself. 'Time for Endspark.'|[[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]|&lt;u&gt;[[Ghosts of Yesterday]]&lt;/u&gt; p280|style=2}}<br /> :::This necessitated html and css changes, so some quotes may look funny for the next 24 hours or so until the pages de-cache. (They'll preview properly, and if you save them they'll look right... but left on their own they will re-cache with the updated &lt;nowiki&gt;{{quote}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; HTML in short order, so don't bother.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:50, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Uh, why not take the easy route. '''Leave out the opening and closing quotation marks when you post''', and the template fills them in. i.e., <br /> {{quote|Farewell Optimus prime,&quot; [Starscream] whispered to himself. &quot;Time for Endspark.|[[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]|&lt;u&gt;[[Ghosts of Yesterday]]&lt;/u&gt; p280}}<br /> ::There you go, simple and doesn't involve guillemots that don't parse for anyone. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 05:01, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::What a lovely mix of smart and dumb quotes you have created. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:46, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Given the use of a monospaced font, it doesn't make sense to use &quot;smart&quot; quotation marks anyway... - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 07:24, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I prefer the old style quotes. Nobody can make me use the new ones. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 06:09, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I agree, for all the reasons that SanityOrMadness listed above (especially points 1, 2 and 4)[[Special:Contributions/81.108.237.26|81.108.237.26]] 13:44, 18 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I completely don't care about this discussion, but I must take the time to point out that it's &quot;guillemet&quot;. &quot;Guillemot&quot; is a bird, which is decidedly not relevant to this discussion. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 03:49, 16 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> I don't think the normal quotes show up properly in IE6 and a normal quote overlaps an image on http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Protoform so that needs to be fixed or bigquote restored.[[Special:Contributions/81.108.237.26|81.108.237.26]] 11:08, 22 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :That's a note, not a quote. The site unfortunately has plenty of problems in IE6, mostly caused by Microsoft's crappy rendering engine. A few of them linger in IE7 too... We really need to come up with a replacement for the messageboxes which doesn't lose the right-hand edge for one thing. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 17:48, 22 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> == Redirects while editing ==<br /> <br /> Go to [[User:Derik/Sandbox7]], hit edit, then ''preview''. (Hitting shift-refresh might be required to clear out your CSS cache if the effect isn't apparent.)<br /> <br /> Links to redirects are highlighted ''in preview mode only''. If it's not highlighted, you know you're pointing to an actual page rather than a redirect. Should probably make it easier to just ''guess'' on a lot of links while still being assured you're picking valid ones.<br /> <br /> (Pink is a terrible color to use for this. Any suggestions on how this should be styled? Sparkle-background?) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:46, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Would making them simply &lt;span style=&quot;text-decoration: underline; color: blue&quot;&gt;underlined&lt;/span&gt; be too subtle? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 23:15, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I worry it's too subtle. What about &lt;span style=&quot;text-decoration: underline;border-bottom: 3px double; color: blue;cursor: help;&quot; title=&quot;I'm Rick James bitch, and ''this'' is linking to a redirect!&quot;&gt;this&lt;/span&gt;?<br /> ::If that's too subtle I could break out the sparkling text and have the wiki chant &quot;Septus, Dominus!&quot; every time you mouse over it...-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:30, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Aw, what's wrong with the pink? I think that one's clear enough. [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 00:39, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Not bad. At least this way it'll be easier to catch the redirects, applying changes when necessary. Although pink... I think it'd be better if the color was a different contrast if it's in the colored section of the templates (as in the episode/comic templates). --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 01:34, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Abates suggested underlining... since the redirects ''only'' show up that way when in preview mode, I think it'd be a good idea to have multiple visual indications. (I don't think the previous/next links on the comicnav, for example, will change color... because they already ''have'' a color set. If you have multiple indicators (color underline, etc...) chances are at least one will remain noticable no matter what happens.<br /> :Does anyone hate the blinking? (It's a firefox-only style.) Normally I HATE anything that blinks because its distracting, but the whole point here is to be able to easily spot the redirects. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:58, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Eh, blinking's fine. Not that of a biggy for me. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 02:08, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::It's only in the preview and not in the saved pages, so the blinking is ok so far as I'm concerned! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 02:15, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I think the feature is great? But yes, I hate the blinking. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 10:03, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> This might be a good time to mention this, but just because a link is pink and flashy doesn't necessarily mean it is a mistake needing fixing, right? It is sometimes OK to use redirect links. If you are talking about Goldbug it is OK (and preferable in my opinion) to link to [[Goldbug (G1)]] and let the redirect do the work. I think having it stand out so much would tend to have editors feel the need to clean them all out. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 10:17, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::There is potential for that. I agree that sometimes redirects are okay... &lt;nowiki&gt;*shrug*&lt;/nowiki&gt; -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 12:44, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> How about &quot;safety orange&quot; or yellow? Those are universal &quot;danger/warning&quot; colors. (And less puke-inducing for me than pink). I don't mind the blinking either, considering that the idea is that the indicator is ''supposed'' to annoy the hell out of you until you change it. (FWIW, the whole thing works fine in Opera 9.63, too.)<br /> <br /> As for Starfield's comment, eh, I just don't see it 99% of the time. If I wanted to link to something like Goldbug or Rodimus Prime, I would do &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Bumblebee (G1)|Goldbug]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; or &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Hot Rod (G1)|Rodimus Prime]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; instead. About the only time I could see it useful is if you were doing linking related to a spoiler (like Longarm Prime vs. Shockwave, for instance), but even then you'd still only need to do it for a month at most. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:15, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I don't personally see the sense in manually redirecting to Hot Rod when you are talking Rodimus Prime when there is perfectly valid actual redirect to use. You aren't talking about &quot;Hot Rod&quot;. It is like word-linking that way, like you are trying to fake out the reader. &quot;Rodimus Prime&quot; is that character's name in that point of the story. I always thought that was the primary purpose of having redirects, and search boxes were secondary. <br /> :Plus there is the added benefit of when you use the &quot;what links here&quot; page, you see what pages link to &quot;Rodimus Prime&quot;, which is interesting information that is lost if everything links to &quot;Hot Rod&quot;. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 17:53, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Because it's the same character. We say &quot;Spike&quot; or &quot;Daniel&quot;, but link to their full name. If someone refers to Bumblebee as a &quot;giant yellow Volkswagon robot&quot; in something, we might use that phrasing in the synopsis, but we'd still link to Bumblebee, not to &quot;giant yellow Volkswagon robot&quot; as a redirect. Etc. It's not a fakeout, it's just using the proper contextual name in the text, but cutting out the middleman for the actual link.<br /> ::Redirects can make linking easier for editors who don't know immediately what the proper link might be, so we don't end up with accidental duplicate pages (or as a shorter way to link to something like an oft-used section link), but on the whole I think it's mostly useful for searches.<br /> ::In short, while not all redirect linking is something to worry about, per se, I don't see anything wrong with encouraging editors to hunt down the correct linkage, even in those sorts of edge cases. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:19, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::&quot;Goldbug&quot; was a character in the comic [[Used Autobots]], the character was ''not'' &quot;Bumblebee&quot;. In that way, it is different than using Spike's full name, or even [[Peter Parker]] vs [[Spider-Man]]. I think a link on the [[Used Autobots]] article to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Bumblebee (G1)|Goldbug]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; is incorrect because there was no &quot;Bumblebee&quot; in the story. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 18:36, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::And yet, Bumblebee and Goldbug don't have separate articles, because we treat them as being the same character. *shrugs a little* I don't ''care'' either way, really, and wouldn't consider it worth worrying about if someone linked to Goldbug, I just don't see that as more correct. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:47, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Bumblebee/Goldbug is the same character. That is ''why'' I think it is OK to link to &quot;Goldbug&quot;, even more correct to do so when you are talking about Goldbug. &quot;Goldbug&quot; is not a nickname for &quot;Bumblebee&quot;, Goldbug is that character, at that point in the story. The article could be named &quot;Goldbug (G1)&quot; with Bumblebee redirecting to it or &quot;Bumblebee/Goldbug&quot;, but for our, somewhat arbitrary, naming rules. I don't disagree with the naming rules, but just because the article is called &quot;Bumblebee&quot; doesn't mean that that always linking to &quot;Bumblebee&quot; is correct. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 19:00, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::And yet, even if you link to Goldbug, when you click on the link, you still end up at a page titled &quot;Bumblebee (G1)&quot;. Is the little &quot;redirected from&quot; note really that crucial a difference? (Especially since the intro mentions the Goldbug change right at the top anyway.) It just seems like a difference that makes no difference to me. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:05, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Yes, when you link to Goldbug, you end up at the right spot, so why the big push to not link to Goldbug when you are talking about Goldbug? And yes, in some way I like seeing &quot;redirected from&quot;, it lets me know that Goldbug is just as correct but the title is called &quot;Bumblebee&quot; out of convenience. And don't forget about the &quot;What links here&quot; feature. It is a little useful being able to sort out the Goldbug references. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 19:19, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Someone requested I link-fix a bunch of minor variants of Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime ot all point to &quot;Hot Rod (G1)&quot;. Instead I split them, pointing to &quot;Hot Rod (G1)&quot; and &quot;Rodimus Prime (G1)&quot; as appropriate-- in case we one day decide to split the articles like we do Megatron/Galvatron.<br /> ::::::The same principle applies. A split is ''unlikely'', but this way if we ''do'' split the articles, all the links are already pointing to the appropriate destination, instead of having to sort through 500+ incoming links ''by hand'' (that's abotu the number Hot Rod has...) to figure out which need to go where. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 10:57, 15 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::::::''Is the little &quot;redirected from&quot; note really that crucial a difference?''<br /> ::::::::For me, yes, it kinda is. It lets me know that the powers-that-be have decided that &quot;Goldbug&quot; is heavily subordinate to the character of Bumblebee, that they are well and truly one and the same, that there's not some other Goldbug article out there that I'm missing. That in itself is a significant bit of information, even before I've started reading the text. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 20:09, 22 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> I think that the &quot;What Links Here&quot; issue is a fair point. But IMHO if you need the little &quot;redirected from&quot; note to tell you're in the right place instead of just by reading the intro, you're either lazy or the intro needs rewriting. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:14, 22 April 2009 (EDT)&lt;br&gt;<br /> Edit: Realized I should mention that I'm liking the blinky thingy so far... it used to be annoying having to click through every new link I was adding to make sure it was the proper direct link instead of a redirect. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:18, 22 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :We should have one standard for linking or not linking to redirect pages. I much prefer being able to link to redirect pages and not get reverted, but I would go along with the other way if that is the standard. I started a draft proposal for a standard to be added to the style guide at my [[User:Starfield/Redirect linking|sandbox]]. Please feel free to comment or edit it or add reasons for/against. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 10:51, 8 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> ==Franchise identifier consistency==<br /> At the moment, we have 34 &quot;G1&quot; articles with an identifier of a specific Japanese sub-franchise to distinguish them from articles on usually Western/G1 material. We also have about 9 &quot;G1&quot; articles who use a different kind of identifier, on basis that the Japanese continuities are G1.&lt;br&gt; <br /> This already led to a bit of moving around with the Grandus article between (G1) and (ROC) when the Animated guy was introduced. To prevent that happening with the Dai Atlas, Sky Garry and possibly Cancer articles, I'd like to have the community make a decision on how to deal with the (G1) identifier vs the (Headmasters), (Masterforce), (Victory), (Zone), (ROC) and (OC) identifiers vs whatever else can be/is used as identifier.&lt;br&gt; <br /> My preference would be to use the Japanese sub-franchise identifiers. Simple and in line with the whole &quot;from the (Japanese franchise) portion of the G1 continuity&quot; on top of those pages. For convenience, here's a list of the moves it would mean:<br /> *Sandstorm (Autobot) -&gt; Sandstorm (G1) (Note: we have a SG Sandstorm now, so (Autobot) it can't stay anyway.)<br /> *Sandstorm (Decepticon) -&gt; Sandstorm (OC)<br /> *Falcon (Predator) -&gt; Falcon (G1)<br /> *Falcon (Micromaster) -&gt; Falcon (OC)<br /> *Ricochet (G1 Autobot) -&gt; Ricochet (Headmasters)<br /> *Metrotitan (G1) -&gt; Metrotitan (Zone)<br /> *Grandus (G1) -&gt; Grandus (ROC)<br /> *Star Saber (G1) -&gt; Star Saber (Victory)<br /> *Joe (Micromaster) -&gt; Joe (ROC)<br /> *Circuit (Action Master) -&gt; Circuit (G1)<br /> *Circuit (Micromaster) -&gt; Circuit (OC)<br /> *Convertor (Micromaster) -&gt; Convertor (OC)<br /> *Convertor (Recyclon) -&gt; Convertor (G1), but I'm in favour of leaving this one as (Recyclon) because all other Recyclons with an identifier use (Recyclon).<br /> Thoughts? [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 03:48, 19 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Sky Garry etc... all fall under (G1.) Widest possible identifier when there's no conflict.<br /> :This confuses people because we use specific franchises for UT characters... but the UT has SO MUCH name overlap it'd be pointless-- no one would have the (UT) identifier even if it was standard. G1 has little enough name overlap internal to itself we can make (G1) the default.<br /> :So it's inconsistent--but it's at least ''consistently'' inconsistent. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 06:55, 19 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Diver, Planet X, Hydra, maaaaybe Overlord... No, we're not consistently inconsistent either. And now I'm only looking at G1 West vs Japan. With BW, we do seem to be consistent in acknowledging its Japanese sub-franchises in identifiers. [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 07:20, 19 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::What's this &quot;widest possible identifier,&quot; Derik? Didn't we go through that huge &quot;Swarm (G1)&quot; debate (which seems to have been ''completely lost'' in the Bookworm crash, fantastic) to cement the franchise-of-origin rule forever and ever amen? The only question here is: What counts as a separate franchise? To my mind, ''Zone'' bears about the same relationship to G1 as G2 does. And, as the Swarm debate established, G2 is never ever G1 as far as parentheticals are concerned. The UT example has nothing to do with what you said and everything to do with our one simple rule. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 00:21, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::...I don't remember anymore. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:31, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::At least remember to curse the name of Bookworm for three to seven generations. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 00:59, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Side note: Actually, the bit of the discussion that was on my User Page subpage isn't lost. I just didn't upload it anywhere because we never actually determined a good permanent place to move it to, so I didn't know ''where'' to upload it to. After a quickie Google search, it turns out there's still a good cache file for the Insecticon Swarm talk page, too. Anyhoo. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 02:19, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Hey, whatever you can find and restore, please do. The biggest value of preserving a debate like that is never having to go through it again. I'd say you should re-make your Sandbox and its Talk page exactly as they were before. I don't think a more &quot;permanent&quot; place is necessary; it's an aborted experiment, so it can stay on an &quot;experimental&quot; page. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 03:11, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::::I'm for moving those pages. Except for &quot;OC&quot; since it's based on a bad translation of a Japanese title. 合体大作戦 (''Gattai Daisakusen'') means &quot;Great Combination Operation&quot;. Everybody who knows this, including me, just has been too lazy to correct it. (And Derik, the punctuation for a sentence is out of the parentheses. I'm not sure why you consistently make that mistake.) [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 01:54, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Then maybe this is a good moment to correct it? [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 03:55, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Well, problem is that &quot;Operation Combination&quot;, as incorrect as it is, is what the majority of English people know it as. And then what to have the disambiguation parentheses as? &quot;(GCO)&quot;? I would prefer to have it as &quot;Gattai Daisakusen&quot;, but my opinion of forgoing unofficial translations is decidedly unpopular. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 16:13, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::Then it depends on what this wiki cares more about: helping people find information or providing them with the correct information. By what you're saying, I'd say Operation Combination should become a redirect to the correctly named article. And from there, I don't think (OC) is going to be anymore clear on what continuity it represents than (GCO) or (GD). I don't think many will immediately guess &quot;OC&quot; stands for Operation Combination, and that's also not the point of identifiers. [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 08:21, 21 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::I'm in favor of using the Japanese sub-franchise names. I checked Beast Wars and we are using the sub-franchise names for that, (BWII), (BWN) so this would be consistent. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 08:51, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::Except as someone (Interrobang?) keeps pointing out-- that's problematic in itself. There was no BWII Toyline. There was a BWII cartoon... and a Beast Wars Toyline. Japan considers all 4 BW series paer of 1 toyline franchise, much like Generation 1. (This argument hasn't received a lot of traction, but I'm bringing it up because it seems relevant.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 10:19, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::FortMax brought it up at least twice. One could argue that since we focus on fiction, we should base our disambiguation system on it, but I dunno how to reconcile that with [[Cryotek (RID)]]. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 16:13, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::Or [[Sideways (RID)]]. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:34, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::Sideways at least got a RID bio. All Cryotek gets is a quote. (And what if they have RID fiction with Cryotek in it? RID and BM are in two different continuity families which means we have to split the articles and argharghargh) [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 19:19, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::::Disambiguating by fiction has been argued. It doesn't work/help. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:52, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::::&lt;nowiki&gt;*bump*&lt;/nowiki&gt; So, I like Geewunling's proposal. Objections? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:14, 12 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::The Wiki calls Headmasters, Beast Wars II, etc. &quot;franchises.&quot; I didn't know the weren't until just now. It seems useful enough to do so, even if it isn't 100% historically accurate. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 19:07, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> == Technical question: Firefox and history pages ==<br /> <br /> Is anyone else running the latest version of Firefox and having trouble with the history pages? I'm running Firefox 3.0.10 and when I look at, say, the [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Optimus_Primal&amp;limit=500&amp;action=history Optimus Primal history page], Firefox locks up for half a minute while it runs the javasript to hide half of the radio buttons. It does it on two different computers running the same version of Firefox, but I don't have the same problem on Wikipedia or Wikia. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 20:56, 1 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Oh wow, that ''was'' a pretty nasty stutter I got when I tried to reproduce your issue. Same version, same results.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 21:00, 1 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Ayep, same here. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:02, 1 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Issue also reproduced on my home PC, which has more get up and go than my workstation, with Firefox 3.5 beta 4.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 22:34, 1 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Ditto on my notebook and tower unit. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 23:06, 1 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::...interesting. Why just firefox? (Clearly the 500+ items are an issue here-- but Safari has no problem with 500 items.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:26, 1 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::I'd be curious to know as well. I specifically tried it again with the beta release because it uses a different (and supposedly more efficient) Javascript engine.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 23:30, 1 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::And why only here and not on Wikipedia? Is there that much of a change in the Javascript between MediaWiki 1.12 and 1.14? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 23:32, 1 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Dropped down to Firefox 2...20 there to test, and clicking the radio buttons doesn't take very long, but the page DOES lock up for a while on initial load. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 18:28, 2 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :And FF 1.5.10 behaves as-FF2. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 18:38, 2 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Bad images ==<br /> <br /> My scanner is a piece o' crap. Is it better to upload dark and grainy pictures with a &quot;badimage&quot; tag or just put up a &quot;picsneeded&quot; tag? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 21:38, 3 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Depends. With recent comic stuff, I think &quot;pics needed&quot; would be better, as there's a good chance that someone else will have the issue (or can find scans, *cough*). I replaced all the Defiance ones, for instance. If you have in mind specific scenes you would have scanned, you can always leave a suggestion in the picsneeded tag or on the talk page.<br /> :On the other hand, for stuff that's old or rare, where it might be a choice between a bad image or never having an image, IMHO a bad image is better than nothing.<br /> :(If you ever replace your scanner, I recommend the Canon MP210. I use it with Irfanview, and god I love the thing. Prints like a charm, too.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:00, 3 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == New User Template ==<br /> <br /> I remember... someone before the crash (FortMax maybe?) suggesting the idea of a template we can stick on the talk pages of new users to welcome them. I rather liked the idea, so I started a mockup idea here: [[User:Jeysie/NewUser]] Any ideas for a pic, info to add/change, etc?<br /> <br /> Also, I noticed we don't have a New Users log enabled the way Wikia does... if we do create this sort of thing, having that sort of log would be helpful. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:21, 4 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :We'd need to either upgrade to MediaWiki 1.14 or install [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Newuserlog the extension] to get the new users log. It would be ''very'' useful, I'm thinking. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:35, 4 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Screencap templates ==<br /> <br /> Er... you know we can ''edit'' the text that appears on the file upload screen. Anyone got a list of screencap templates?<br /> <br /> (I think you might even be able to set them up for one-click adding.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:37, 11 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :They are all listed at [[Transformers Wiki:Images]], to my knowledge. I added all the ones I knew of.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 20:42, 11 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::[[User:Derik/Sandbox7|This]] is what I'm looking at. It's kinda fugy. Anyone else want to take a whack at it? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:16, 11 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> I'm also working at templating the comics images:<br /> *{{tl|MarvelUScover}} (Marvel US G1), {{tl|HMcover}} (Marvel Headmasters mini) and {{tl|MarvelG2cover}} are maxed out.<br /> *I ''think'' I've got all the extant &amp; relevant images for {{tl|MarvelG2interior}} - although I can't absolutely swear to it<br /> *I'm currently working as and when I have the chance on moving the Marvel US G1 interiors and HM interiors to {{tl|MarvelUSinterior}} and {{tl|HMinterior}} from a variety of copyright tags and the absence thereof (including the ones that lost their descriptions in the Bookworm Incident)<br /> Like I say, the covers are maxed out, but there's always the chance that other interiors will be uploaded (Walky's done a few recently), and it would help if they were added too. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:58, 11 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Propose a visually compact way of doing so. ;) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:10, 11 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> {|border cellspacing=&quot;1&quot; cellpadding=&quot;5&quot; width=&quot;100%&quot;<br /> |-<br /> !width=50%|General<br /> !width=50%|Comic Cover<br /> |-valign=&quot;top&quot;<br /> |width=50%|<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Hasbro/Takara Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{hastak}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Interior Panel Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{comicinterior}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Cover Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{comiccover}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Screencap Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{screencap}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> |width=50%|<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Marvel US G1 Cover copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{MarvelUScover|(description)|(issue number)|(issue title)|(artist list)|(last two digits of publication year)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Marvel Headmasters Cover copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{HMcover|(description)|(issue number)|(issue title)|(artist list)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Marvel US G2 Cover copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{MarvelG2cover|(description) |(issue number) |(issue title) |(artist list) |(last digit of publication year)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> |-<br /> !width=50%|Screencap<br /> !width=50%|Comic Interior<br /> |-valign=&quot;top&quot;<br /> |width=50%|<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Title Card Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{titlecard}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;G1/Sunbow Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{G1cap|(imagedescription)|(episode name)|(last digit of premiere year originally aired)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Robots In Disguise Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{RIDcap|(imagedescription)|(episode name)|(last digit of year originally aired)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Beast Wars Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{BWcap|(imagedescription)|(episode name)|(last digit of year originally aired)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Beast Machines Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{BMcap|(imagedescription)|(episode name)|(year originally aired)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Transformers: Animated Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{TFAcap|(imagedescription)|(episode name)|(year originally aired)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> |width=50%|<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Marvel US G1 Interior copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{MarvelUSinterior|description=|issueno=|storytitle=|pageno=|panelno=|panelnos=|script=|line-art=|pencils=|inks=|colours=[[Nelson Yomtov]]|letters=|help=|year=(last two digits of publication year)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Marvel Headmasters Interior copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{HMinterior|description= |issueno= |storytitle= |pageno= |panelno= |panelnos= |letters= |help=}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Marvel US G2 Interior copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{MarvelG2interior|description= |issueno= |storytitle= |pageno= |panelno= |panelnos= |script= |pencils= |inks= |colours= |letters= |help= |year=(last digit of publication year)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> |}<br /> ...I don't know about visually compact, exactly, but considering how many image templates we have, I'm not sure &quot;visually compact&quot; is possible... --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:06, 11 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Well, it's something to work on. Unfortunately the '''charinsert''' plugin doesn't have any way to display s short piece of text while inserting a long one.<br /> :There's a rabid wolverine scrabbling around the back of my brain licking carnival pennies... I feel like when he comes down off his ''filth high'' he might have some ideas about Stupid CSS Tricks to make that less loathesome. (Failing that we could do something with Javascript, but it'd be a bitch to update so that's a last choice.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:35, 12 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Yeah, it's pretty much the opposite... you can stick a description in the tooltip, but the actual text has to be visible. I honestly can't think of any way to do it in pure CSS without messing up the clickability of it.<br /> ::I guess we ''could'' just link to the plain vanilla templates with no parameters, but I kind of want to encourage people to be as thorough as possible with their info.<br /> ::I think we could also use a way to include a link to each template's page in case one needs to read the instructions. But I had trouble coming up with a way that's brief, clear, and won't get mistaken for the inserto-text link. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 01:53, 12 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Addendum: We could go for a fake form with OPTION or a CSS-based drop-down list, but I think those would both need JS. (Admittedly the CSS based drop-down would need less JS, and only for the style, not the functionality.) &lt;small&gt;(Why do I always have extra thoughts right ''after'' hitting the &quot;submit&quot; button?)&lt;/small&gt; --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 01:59, 12 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::What about the Boilerplate plugin that was suggested a while back? Would that be more suitable for this sort of thing? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 02:04, 12 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::No, unfortunately... it only works for articles, not on file pages. (At least, if there is a way to get it to work on file pages, I couldn't figure it out.) Although I still think we should give that extension a whirl at some point, it won't help out with this specific thing. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 02:07, 12 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::My Wolverine stopped tripping long enough to say &quot;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{MarvelG2}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;:&lt;span class=&quot;tt1_fuxChar&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{MarvelG2interior|description=|issueno=|storytitle=|pageno=|panelno=|panelnos=|script=|pencils=|inks=|colours=|letters=|help=|year=(last digit of publication year)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;.&quot;<br /> ::::He is a filthy, FILTHY beast, and the hackiness of that CSS shames me. (And it's still not ideal code anyway.)<br /> ::::I think Javascript is a likely fate here. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:03, 12 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Upload Preview ==<br /> <br /> Over at [[Template_talk:Screencap#Since_we_got_derailed.|Template talk:Screencap]], Mr. Bates (or possibly Doug-- I can't keep them straight) suggested we look at the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_User_scripts/Scripts/Upload_Preview Upload Preview script]-- a pure javascript solution to the lack of previews during image upload (which the MW software doesn't naively support.)<br /> <br /> The script is currently available for anyone who has the [[User:Derik/kired tools|kired tools]] plugins installed. Please report your thoughts, and if there are any problems or conflicts. If user response is positive, I'm going to recommend the relevant code be added to the Wiki's common.js file. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:59, 12 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :It works great - very handy (I was the one who suggested it, BTW) --[[User:Abates|abates]] 05:59, 13 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I finally figured out why I have such trouble telling you and Doug apart.<br /> ::I'm actually trying to tell &quot;apog,&quot; &quot;apog&quot; and &quot;abates&quot; apart under the impression they are ''two'' people. '''No wonder''' I'm confused. -[[User:Deceptitran|Deceptitran]] 12:37, 18 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::With no reported problems from the ppl running Kired Tools, this plugin has been moved to the common file, and is now loaded for all Wiki users.<br /> :::So if anything unexpected breaks tonight please report it here, since the preview script will be the likely suspect. (But we don't expect it to.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:53, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == (comic issue) vs. (issue) ==<br /> <br /> Is there any protest against eliminating (comic issue) as a disambiguation parenthetical? Near as I can tell, it's totally redundant with the shorter, simpler (issue) parenthetical. (again, unless there's a &quot;Child's Play (socioeconomic issue)&quot; article that I'm unaware of...) -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 10:52, 18 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :No protest here. I was planning on doing it someday. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 14:58, 18 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == ROTF spoilers from novelizations and other adaptations ==<br /> <br /> So, is information from the novelizations off-limits until the movie is in theaters, or what? (If so, we need to protect the hell out of a bunch of pages) --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 22:58, 20 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :It was discussed [[Talk:Revenge of the Fallen (franchise)|here]] and decided that no, they are not off limits, but please date the spoiler tags on character pages to a week after the film comes out. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 23:04, 20 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I've been stubbing in articles where I feel it's appropriate... but I've also been tailoring my content to avoid major spoilers-- more to have the infrastructure in place and ready to fill in then the movie drops.<br /> ::(And realistically speaking, there's going to be a flood of detailed spoilers, including lists of every fatality and major surprise on the 10th-- the film premieres in Japan 18 days before it does here.)<br /> ::Incidentally, I don't ''trust'' the tie-in novels. Characters vanish suddenly, details are glossed over or changed... I harbor a suspicion that certain plot details are being kept out of the books-- or at least obscured-- to prevent fans from being 100% certain about anything. The climax of the two movie adaptions I've read so far are ''different'', they have '''noticeably''' divergent outcomes. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:12, 21 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I do not want '''''any''''' novelization and adaptation spoilers on character pages or other related articles. Stuff from adaptations should stay on their respective articles. Most of my work on the wiki at the moment is updating and maintaining movie articles, so it would be a personal inconvenience to me if I had to avert my eyes every time I come across the ''Revenge of the Fallen'' movie sections of character articles. Not only that, but there will be people who will wander onto this wiki with the intention of refreshing themselves on the movie or to read prequel stuff leading up to ROTF, but have no intention of reading up on plot points of the movie itself. And, as Derik says, novelizations and adaptations often differ wildly from the final movie script.<br /> :::I think it's more than bloody fair to expect that we only post ROTF-related stuff on the day of the movie's release around the world, not before. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 00:59, 21 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::That'd apply to the British Isles contingent? UK and Ireland are getting general release June 19. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 02:48, 21 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::That's a good question. (I have no opinion, I'm spoiling myself by reading the novel.)<br /> :::::IIRC, back during Animated season 2 we were observing a 1-week moratorium on character-page updates, which more-or-less covered the biggest broadcast markets.<br /> * 10th - Japan premiere<br /> * 24th - US Premiere<br /> * 26th - UK Premiere<br /> :::::Since the period we're talking about is just a 16 day span, I assume the same idea applies-- hold off until the 26th (possibly plus a few days) out of respect for other TF-fans. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:23, 21 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::As Lonegamer ''just said'', it's out here in the UK on the 19th. And the rule for TFA S2 seemed to be that &quot;as soon as it was first aired in English, be it in the UK, US or Canada (all three had 'world premieres in English' at different points), go for it&quot;. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 10:02, 21 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::I think that the modifier in that situation, though, was the fact that as soon as said Animated episodes had aired in English ''anywhere'', high-quality encodes of them were promptly available to download for anybody anywhere who wanted them, making it all pretty much fair game. Information could be added, and editors would not be left unable to verify that information, as they could download and see the episode themselves. The movie won't have that - US editors simply wont know if what anon IPs add is true or not, because they won't be able to see the movie to verify it and will have to operate on good faith, which is laudible, but we saw how well that worked with the Dubai Animated debalce and &quot;Animated Waspinator&quot;. While I'll be seeing it opening day here in the UK, I know that I, personally, wasn't planning to add anything about it to the wiki until it screened in the US. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 11:03, 21 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::What Chris said. &quot;Airing in English&quot; was a polite euphemism for &quot;we can see it too.&quot; It doesn't apply for a 2-and-a-half hour theatrical movie. American fans will still be in the dark until the 26th, and as far as I'm concerned the wiki should honor that. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 11:04, 21 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::''While I'll be seeing it opening day here in the UK, I know that I, personally, wasn't planning to add anything about it to the wiki until it screened in the US.''<br /> :::::::::''American fans will still be in the dark until the 26th''<br /> :::::::::Can I take it that the UK and US premiere dates above are switched?--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 14:02, 21 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::It's now been said '''thrice''' in this thread that the UK/Eire date is the 19th. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]]<br /> :::::::::::Beg your pardon, then. It was late, and I wasn't paying close enough attention.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 13:08, 22 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::::::::::Damn Americans think they're the centre of the Universe. If I was President of the US, I'd invade the UK and Ireland to protect American Transfan interests. 14:56, 1 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> I read the novel and have this to say: As much detail as is in it, there's no doubt its different. First of all: there's alot more detail so that means some of the slower parts are probably shorter in the movie (novels often do that anyways so no problems there) and also: in one chapter it leads up to fight and then on the very next chapter all of a sudden Devestator appears and is fighting already as if he's been there the whole time (meaning they skipped a chunk of that fight)So as is obvious, there will be differences.--[[User:Chipmonk328|Chipmonk328]] (or was it 9?)&lt;&lt;not that it matters<br /> <br /> ==Forgive my attitude but==<br /> what the flying f***! What happened to my account. I made one, I even remember what it looked like. Where is it and why can't I login and my username no longer exsists! What..the..hell. I've not signed in for a long time but I still go here regularly and everything, don't tell me you autodeleted my account! I mean, I’ve been here when it was at Wikia, I moved with you guys here and even made a new account here! Hell, my old accounts on Wikia all got deleted, so please don’t tell me you guys stooped to their level and deleted my account as well! I’ve done nothing wrong, aside from giving the appearance of being inactive because I’ve not logged in within awhile, but so what? What right does that give you to delete my account? (and if by some means it does give you the right to do so, please provide a link proving that)--[[User:Chipmonk328|Chipmonk328]] (or was it 9?)&lt;&lt; not that it matters<br /> :[[Transformers Wiki:Bookworm Crash]]. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 15:59, 1 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> Thank you. I'll just make a new account then.-sighs- Forgive if I bothered any of you with what I just said.--[[User:Chipmonk328|Chipmonk328]]<br /> ::Don't worry, incoherent rage is the '''proper''' response to the Bookworm crash... you're just slowpoking. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:17, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Main page ==<br /> <br /> [[Image:Mainpage_analytics-06-05-09.png|thumb]]<br /> I'll just leave this here...<br /> <br /> (I'll check in after work and see if anyone has thoughts, I sure do.)<br /> <br /> Number are per-individual-link BTW-- so two separate links to the same location have their clickthroughs tallied separately. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:16, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> : In which we learn nobody clicks anything! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:21, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::The numbers on the page ''should'' add up to 100%. It's just that a few links get vastly more traffic than the others so they show up as 0%. That might represent a few hundred clicks-- the Main Page ''is'' our most frequented page. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:12, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::And people are obviously clicking on [[Kup (G1)]] as the page has gained a thousand hits and jumped 30 places in the Popular Pages list in the last week or so. Any idea what time frame the data covers? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:20, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::That was pretty much my thought, too. XD Although it is kind of interesting that some of the categories/continuities/series sections seem more popular than others... it's just hard to tell which ones, since the number pop-ups are in weird spots.<br /> ::I also notice that the &quot;images&quot; link in the Editing Tips is popular... and that apparently the fake disambiguation links get some clicks. XD Speaking of which, we really should write up some more of those to replace the rotating ones that got lost in the crash... --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 13:26, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I may have sternly directed people to our Images policy page. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:49, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::It's the most common thing people get wrong, so it's also our most thorough policy document.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 14:05, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::About 8% of clicks on the main page are to our &quot;anyone can edit&quot; but up top-- which just takes people to anchors within the page. (The Editing tips section and the Holy Grails section, which do not themselves then collect a lot of clicks.)<br /> :::::This leads me to think that people who click on these things do ''not'' get what they want/are expecting. We should look at changing those links somehow.<br /> :::::Another 8 % of clicks on the main page are on the &quot;home&quot; logo in the upper left (which takes you... back to the main page) and the &quot;main page&quot; link in the nav toolbar.<br /> :::::If there's agreement, I'd like to set it so that the &quot;Main Page&quot; link in the navigation on the left is grayed out when you're on the main page, so it's clearer that &quot;you're here.&quot; (The link would still be usable, it'd just have this visual indicator.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:10, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::We could simply de-link the &quot;anyone can edit&quot; links... they just seemed like a good way to get people to actually read our policies and what we need. Or maybe we could link that text directly to [[Help:Contents]] and get rid of the &quot;Editing Tips&quot; box altogether?<br /> ::::::I agree with the &quot;Main Page&quot; link being disabled when you're actually on the Main Page. It's pretty easy to do via CSS, and you can also change the cursor to be a regular arrow in CSS to further de-emphasize the links and say, &quot;Hey, dude, you're already ''at'' the Main Page.&quot;<br /> ::::::Although I had actually thought that 8% of clicks was to the Recent Changes page, which would have made more sense to me. The oddness of where the stat boxes are in relation to the actual page links does make it hard to analyze. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:45, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::AS FAR AS I CAN TELL (which in a few cases - the continuities box especially - is less than 100%), these are all the numbers &gt;1.0%:<br /> :::::::*Logo (goes to Main Page): 4.0%<br /> :::::::*&quot;Navigation&quot; sidebar:<br /> :::::::**Main Page link in sidebar: 4.0%<br /> :::::::**Recent changes: 5.3%<br /> :::::::*Fake disambig:<br /> :::::::**&quot;anyone can edit&quot; (goes to &quot;editing-tips&quot; subpage): 4.0%<br /> :::::::**&quot;add to&quot; (goes to &quot;holy-grails&quot; subpage): 4.0%<br /> :::::::*Categories:<br /> :::::::**Characters: 1.8%<br /> :::::::*Continuities:<br /> :::::::**Live-action film: 1.4%<br /> :::::::**Full Series Info: 4.0%<br /> :::::::*Also, the cumulative links to the ROTF page appear to be &gt;1%, even if no individual link is.<br /> :::::::Thoughts on that... firstly, the links TO the main page ON the main page need to be nerfed. Not greyed out, killed. The logo can be just a logo, and the main page link can be replaced or removed. Secondly, there is no way in hell we should delink the stuff in the fake disambig, but redirecting to other places may be a better idea - take the &quot;editing tips&quot; box and turn it into a full page, linked from there (And from the ET box). Not quite so sure on &quot;add to&quot; - a list of stubs that we want filled out, perhaps? The &quot;Holy Grails&quot; box is too specific for 99.9% of potential editors, I expect. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 19:32, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Useful Extensions ==<br /> <br /> Now that we have a working server again and more control over the techie side of things, I wonder if we should start up a list of extensions to install that might be useful.<br /> <br /> My own picks:<br /> <br /> *[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Newuserlog Extension:Newuserlog] to keep track of new users so we can give them a [[User:Jeysie/NewUser|friendly greeting]]. As opposed to our current status of new people not usually getting much of a &quot;greeting&quot; unless they screw up. :&gt;<br /> *[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:MultiBoilerplate Extension:MultiBoilerplate] to provide a drop-down menu of skeleton codes for new pages. I find this ''incredibly'' useful on my own wiki for being able to easily keep different types of pages all laid out the same, by inserting full page structures into new pages so you can then just fill in the information. For example, [http://trinsic.alienharmony.com/Template:D20RulesPlayercharacterpage here's one structure page] I use to give an idea of the sort of code you can inset.<br /> <br /> :Mine:<br /> :*[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Title_Blacklist Extension:Title Blacklist] blocks creation of pages depending on a regular expression.<br /> <br /> :I will note that Newuserlog is built into MediaWiki 1.14.0, but we haven't discussed upgrading the software yet... --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:25, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Honestly, those &quot;friendly greetings&quot; drive me spare. I'd really rather not have them.<br /> ::Suggestions:<br /> ::*[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:KeepYourHandsToYourself Extension:KeepYourHandsToYourself] (prevents users or anons editing User:* pages other than their own.) [Beta] - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 19:47, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I'd be fine with blocking anons-- but I ''have'' been known to reach out and tweak someone's user page from time to time.<br /> :::(Not that we've really had a problem with either.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:02, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Why do they drive you spare? Giving new users a heads-up regards our policies ''before'' we have to slap a nastygram user notice on their page seems like a good idea to me. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:54, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::They drive me spare getting them while doing IP-edits. And chances are you'll get them again, and again, and again... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:02, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Oh! No, no, no. I didn't mean doing them automatically on all new users, I was thinking, like, putting the greeting ''manually'' only for new ''registered'' users. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 20:09, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ==Rise of the Chevy Autobots==<br /> Allright, I finally got around to putting this up. This is everything I have saved from the &quot;Rise of the Chevy Autobots&quot; online game - flash files, HTML, etc. It comes to nearly 60mb.<br /> <br /> [http://www.obscuretf.com/ChevyAutobotGame.zip Chevy Autobots]<br /> <br /> Unfortunately, I am most likely missing the last week or two of the story, but I figure it's better than nothing. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 14:18, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Monzo- I luvers you...<br /> :And AFIK the defeat of Mainframe himself never got a news update-- the epilogue was provided by the game itself. So you ''should'' have the most up to date version.<br /> :Uh, I suppose there might have been a &quot;he's weakening, keep at it&quot; update, but that's pretty content-null. It'd be nice to know the date Mainframe went down... but again, it looks like you've got 99% of everything preserved here. :)~<br /> :And now we can properly cite the Chevy Autobots being allspark mutations! (Or at least a result of Chevy's experimentation with Energon as an alternative fuel source.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:27, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Possible Relicensing? ==<br /> <br /> So, Wikipedia is moving from the GFDL to a Creative Commons license, which will make it incompatible with most Wikia sites from then on. (Presumably; I haven't heard if Wikia at large or any of its individual wikis--like the old Transformers one-- are making the same transition.) Should TFWiki consider switching, too? Pretty much everyone outside the Wikipedia/Wikia family goes with CC, which is a lot simpler in a lot of ways than the GFDL.<br /> <br /> [[wikipedia:GFDL#Compatibility with CC-BY-SA|Apparently, GFDL-licensed wikis can only make the change before August 1, 2009]]. And unlike them, we probably wouldn't have to worry about having added any content from non-wiki GFDL-licensed things, at least. And it would completely eliminate legal copying/pasting between this wiki and its rival. --[[User:Fleb|Fleb]] 17:47, 6 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I would support this, at least tentatively. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 19:16, 6 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::On the surface, at least, it looks like a good move. It keeps the same free-info spirit, but is incompatible with Wikia's license ''and'' any info-quoting or copying from us further requires attributing the wiki, if I'm reading it right. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:18, 6 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Hmm. I thought about bringing this Creative Commons thing up awhile back, but I'm not Legal Smarts (S-M-R-T) enough to fully understand it. Perhaps our staff should comment on this? The final decision is probably theirs. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:06, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::I don't really have much to say, other than it sounds like a good idea. If nothing else, the legal terms of the GFDL are nightmarish at best and I'd be happy to never think of them again. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 14:02, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> IANAL, but [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Licensing_update based on Wikimedia's page,] it ''looks'' like &quot;relicensing&quot; the site is just a matter of changing all the text that mentions &quot;GFDL&quot; now. The one requirement is that we're using [http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl-1.3.html version 1.3.] [[Transformers Wiki:Copyrights]] doesn't specify a version, and neither does the edit page or the footer, so that's probably okay. &lt;small&gt;(''[[Transformers Wiki:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|If the Document does not specify a version number of this License, you may choose any version ever published (not as a draft) by the Free Software Foundation.]]'')&lt;/small&gt; --[[User:Fleb|fleb]] 18:30, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::One thing that's confusing me, looking again at that - Wikipedia's new licensing structure seems confusing in that all non-imported-under-a-CC-licence content will still be dual-licensed under the GDFL. If we adopted that, Wikia could import from us, but we couldn't import from Wikia. CAN the GDFL be dropped completely? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 19:31, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Oh, definitely. The dual-licensing is just ''Wikipedia's'' own, weird thing to keep the Free Software Foundation loyalists from bitching and Leaving Forever. (Those CC-only things should actually &quot;poison&quot; individual pages so they're not truly GFDL-licensable anymore without reverting, so they'll probably eventually drop it completely.) --[[User:Fleb|fleb]] 22:05, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Which CC license would we use? Seems like [[wikipedia:Creative_Commons_licenses#Original_licenses|from the Wikipedia CC page]] that a by-nc-nd license would be what we're after? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:16, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :It would be [[wikipedia:Share-alike|CC-by-sa]]. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:23, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::That looks like a good idea to me. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 20:07, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Definitely By-SA -- If we do a No-Derivatives, how would we even edit any of our own pages? --[[User:Fleb|fleb]] 22:05, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Seems I misunderstood how the licensing applied. :) --[[User:Abates|abates]] 23:44, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ===ARE we going to relicence?===<br /> So, are we going to do it, is it being investigated, or are we going to just leave it until the grace period expires and we have to stick with the GDFL after all? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 17:09, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I vote we do it. Anyone else? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 20:14, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::It seems to be a less onerous license, and one which we have a window of opportunity to switch to. I'd say go for it.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 20:18, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::+1 vote in favor of relicensing. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:29, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::: -1, I'm against it unless we find a copyright lawyer. The GFDL provides no provisions against re-use in commercial projects. While I'm all for 'Hasbro' poking around on this wiki and recycling bios/names/ideas/what-have-you, if someone else decides to redistribute this content for commercial purposes (for example, selling an iPhone/Android app that's basically an offline cache of the wiki,) I want to make sure that we're not on the hook for it. I get that Hasbro is turning a gleefully blind eye to us as long as we're just trying to stay alive as a volunteer effort, but if we end up attached to someone's attempt to profit off of our work, which is in itself a derivative work of at least a dozen various IP holders, the resulting storm of litigation would shut us down within hours. (And no, I am in fact the 'least' qualified person around to give advice on this situation. I'm just a paranoid freak.) --[[User:McFly|McFly]] 12:07, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::...I have no idea what you just said. Literally. It seems vaguely like you're trying to argue against using the GDFL on the grounds that someone could resell the wiki content. But we're ALREADY using the GDFL and talking about '''changing''' to a [[Wikipedia:Creative Commons licenses|Creative Commons licence]] (Which includes the option for a -nc flag, although no-one here has proposed that as yet that I can see - and given that we carry ads, we may not be allowed to use a -nc flag. That's one I'd like a lawyer's opinion on).<br /> :::::[And could you login just to prove that's you? You posted that as an anon] - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 13:45, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Yeah, under our current GDFL license, the content of this wiki can '''already''' be sold. Staying with the GDFL won't fix that.<br /> ::::::On that note, I will say I'd actually prefer to change to the non-commercial version of the Share-Alike CC license myself, but I had gotten the feeling that there was that only one specific CC license you could switch to. Was I mistaken on that? --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:08, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::They specifically mention CC-BY-SA 3.0, so you're probably right about -nc not being an option, I suppose. For the avoidance of doubt, the GDFL section on relicensing follows in its' own section, [http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html the GDFL as a whole is here], a [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ summary of CC-BY-SA 3.0 is here] and the [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/legalcode full CC-BY-SA 3.0 licence is here] - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 14:25, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::Hrm. I guess that's something we should ask... someone? Who's in charge of all this wiki relicensing as a whole?<br /> ::::::::But for what it's worth, we could use an -nc flag despite the ads, if it's allowed:<br /> ::::::::{{quote|'''Can I still make money from a work I make available under a Creative Commons licenses?'''<br /> <br /> Absolutely. Firstly, because our licenses are non-exclusive which means you are not tied down to only make a piece of your content available under a Creative Commons license; you can also enter into other revenue-generating licenses in relation to your work. One of our central goals is to encourage people to experiment with new ways to promote and market their work. <br /> <br /> Secondly, the noncommercial license option is an inventive tool designed to allow people to maximize the distribution of their works while keeping control of the commercial aspects of their copyright. To make one thing clear that is sometimes misunderstood: the &quot;noncommercial use&quot; condition applies only to others who use your work, not to you (the licensor). So if you choose to license your work under a Creative Commons license that includes the “noncommercial use” option, you impose the ”noncommercial” condition on the users (licensees). However, you, the creator of the work and/or licensor, may at any time decide to use it commercially. People who want to copy or adapt your work, &quot;primarily for monetary compensation or financial gain&quot; must get your separate permission first.|[http://wiki.creativecommons.org/FAQ#Can_I_still_make_money_from_a_work_I_make_available_under_a_Creative_Commons_licenses.3F Creative Commons FAQ]}}<br /> ::::::::Of course, we obviously actually can't outright sell the work ourselves either, but that answer does seem to mean that, even if showing ads technically counts as &quot;commercial use&quot;, we can still use an NC license. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:31, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::Well, if the GDFL only allows us to go to CC-BY-SA3, and not CC-BY-SA-NC, it's kind of a moot point. Which is annoying, since the -nc version DEFINITELY seems more desirable, since it would absolutely lock Wikia out from copying us if true) - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 14:33, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::I decided to send off the following e-mail to the GDFL folks' contact e-mail:<br /> ::::::::::{{quote|Greetings. I'm one of the editors on a Mediawiki-based wiki dedicated to the Transformers franchise: http://tfwiki.net/<br /> <br /> We are currently discussing the prospect of also switching from the GDFL to the CC-BY-SA3. However, we were wondering if the CC-BY-SA3 is truly the *only* BY-SA that can be switched to, or if CC-BY-NC-SA3 would also be possible. Since our wiki is obviously based off writing about copyrighted material, it would help us greatly in remaining on the franchise's parent company's good side if we could ensure that our content cannot be sold.<br /> <br /> Your answer on this would be much appreciated.<br /> <br /> Signed,&lt;br/&gt;<br /> Liz Calkins}}<br /> ::::::::::With any luck I'll get an answer I can pass along. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:55, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ===GDFL section 11, relicensing===<br /> '''11. RELICENSING'''<br /> <br /> &quot;Massive Multiauthor Collaboration Site&quot; (or &quot;MMC Site&quot;) means any World Wide Web server that publishes copyrightable works and also provides prominent facilities for anybody to edit those works. A public wiki that anybody can edit is an example of such a server. A &quot;Massive Multiauthor Collaboration&quot; (or &quot;MMC&quot;) contained in the site means any set of copyrightable works thus published on the MMC site.<br /> <br /> &quot;CC-BY-SA&quot; means the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 license published by Creative Commons Corporation, a not-for-profit corporation with a principal place of business in San Francisco, California, as well as future copyleft versions of that license published by that same organization.<br /> <br /> &quot;Incorporate&quot; means to publish or republish a Document, in whole or in part, as part of another Document.<br /> <br /> An MMC is &quot;eligible for relicensing&quot; if it is licensed under this License, and if all works that were first published under this License somewhere other than this MMC, and subsequently incorporated in whole or in part into the MMC, (1) had no cover texts or invariant sections, and (2) were thus incorporated prior to November 1, 2008.<br /> <br /> The operator of an MMC Site may republish an MMC contained in the site under CC-BY-SA on the same site at any time before August 1, 2009, provided the MMC is eligible for relicensing.<br /> <br /> ===Derik causes problems===<br /> What is the actual difference between these liscences? Is there a breakdown somewhere?<br /> <br /> The explanations I hear online are &quot;They're exactly the same, only CC-BY-SA is worded clearer!&quot;<br /> <br /> Is there a more substantial difference?<br /> <br /> Regardless, I'm going to suggest TFWiki, in addition to whatever base license we adopt, add a &lt;small&gt;(God help me)&lt;/small&gt; '''signing statement''' making clear that our legal ability ''to'' license the content on this wiki extends ''only'' to our own value-added contributions, and not the content which is copywritten by Hasbro.<br /> <br /> A '''fundamental''' problem with the GFDL (originally a license intended for creating collaborative ''software documentation'') and CC-SA (a license for artists to release their work while still retaining some control of ''how'' it is used) is that '''both''' licenses operate under the assumption that the people collaborating to produce this content '''own''' the content they're uploading. If they produced it, they have the right to give ''other'' people the right to use it.<br /> [[Image:Second generation reuser.jpg|thumb|250px]]<br /> ...we didn't produce Transformers. We don't have the right to distribute Screencaps-- '''our use''' of those screencaps falls under &quot;fair use,&quot; anyone wishing to re-use screencaps posted on this wiki is not '''granted the use of them''' via our ''release'' of the screencaps... they are claiming fair use from Hasbro again. Even our ''article text content'' is a melange of &quot;we can claim ownership&quot; and &quot;derived fromHasbro to such an extent that we cannot claim ownership over it&quot; (moreso than Memory Alpha, because for many obscure characters, their entire bio is nothing but a rephrasing of their tech-spec. The amount of 'value added' work done by us in relation to hasbro's copyright on the original text is very low.)<br /> <br /> And that's even '''separate''' from McFeely's concern that someone could create an &quot;offline TFWiki&quot; as an iPhone app-- citing their right to use our content under GFDL-- and then never paying Hasbro a dime. In that scenario-- we are the 'leak' for Hasbro's lawyers to plug by shutting us down. Adopting a &quot;NC&quot; (non-commercial use only) license just means they couldn't ''charge'' for it... they could still create a ''free'' downloadable or java app (Transformer tech-spec viewers are fairly popular as mobile downloads, apparently) with the same result. Besides-- a NC license would ''technically'' mean that Hasbro's own people couldn't use the Wiki as a resource anymore. (At least, under sufficiently draconian lawyers, like Disney's.)<br /> <br /> Equally undesirable, IMO, is someone who '''has''' a TF license via Hasbro, like a book company, that might decide to cheap-out on their content and simply re-present wiki articles-- under GFDL from ''us'' for our contributions and fully licensed from ''Hasbro'' for the portion of the content that ''they'' own. I don't fucking '''want''' TF guidebooks cheeping out liek that-- and I'm '''really''' uncomfortable with any part of our user-generated content becoming primary source material. That's how [[Wikipedia:Daken|Daken]] got created!<br /> <br /> A way around ''that'' might involve a ''second'' license on our content that's '''dependent''' on a commercial producer having the TF license. (This sounds murky, but I think it can make sense...)<br /> <br /> ...<br /> <br /> &lt;nowiki&gt;*scrolls up*&lt;/nowiki&gt; Um, wow. That's a lot of text.<br /> <br /> Basically what I'm saying is;<br /> # As long as we're updating our license, I think we should take the time to make it the '''right''' license, one that;<br /> ##Allows users to freely contribute.<br /> ##Allows ''creators'' to freely play.<br /> ##Reflect that a good deal of our content (particularly graphics) is not owned by us.<br /> ##Respects Hasbro's legal and business needs vis-a-vis copyright.<br /> ##Recognizes that TFWiki ''is'' used as a resource for commercial products. (Share-and-share-alike is good, but it can have some ''bad'' consequences on 'child' derived works, rendering them uncopyrightable.)<br /> ##Attempt to make sure we're not the '''only''' resourced used by those products<br /> <br /> No existing license (that I'm aware of) actually reflects the special needs of media fandom wikis. and the degree of disconnect isn't small-- it's legally significant, and it inhibits our ability to control what happens to our content to protect both our own interests and those of Hasbro.<br /> <br /> I think we can do that without breaking our brains ''or'' hiring a lawyer-- but it requires acting with intention. Like-- forming an exploratory committee seriously peck the problem apart. The upshot might be... well... considerable. We're hardly the ''only'' wiki in this position, and taking the hammer out a standard approach stands a decent chance of being adopted elsewhere. (That's kinda meta-benefit to TFWiki, but it's certainly reputation-building. In terms of &quot;moral authority&quot; a lot of people seem to feel like TFWiki is the place that did things ''right''; our approach to WP:NPOV, leaving Wikia, stance on spoilers, our protective attitude towards the brand, etc... at least I keep running into references to TFWiki in the ''weirdest'' places, and they're almost always complimentary in terms ''not'' just related to our content.)<br /> <br /> Is anyone ''else'' with an interest in (or at least tolerance for) copyright law interested in doing this '''right'''? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:37, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Actually, there's no reason whatsoever that Hasbro couldn't use the wiki as a resource under a NC license. They just wouldn't be able to sell any of the exact content of the wiki, if that makes sense. It's the difference between being able to look up that Optimus Prime did some obscure thing in a certain episode, and quoting the wiki article for Optimus Prime verbatim.<br /> :Plus, AFAIK, all CC licenses allow for the licensees to make individual exceptions, meaning that even if Hasbro ''did'' want to verbatim print some part of the wiki for some reason, we could make an exception for them to do so.<br /> :And personally I don't see any big deal with someone giving copies of the wiki away as a free resource, at least in a legal sense, seeing as how the wiki is basically a free guide to Transformers. As long as we're given credit and it's made clear that it's not in any way an official product, it's exactly the same practical result as someone surfing to the wiki itself on their iPhone browser or whatever, just made more convenient. (The only difference is that we don't get the pageviews for ad revenue if people read our material elsewhere, but that's our problem to deal with, not Hasbro's.)<br /> :Having said all that, a license that allows for protections on things like screenshots and scans would be useful.<br /> :However, that's not something that could be handled before August, I don't think. Personally I'd rather change to some sort of CC license now as an interim measure, and then change again later down the road if a better CC license or other license becomes available.<br /> :Otherwise, we may end up locked into a GDFL license we can't change away from anyway, even if we do later come up with something better. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:51, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::''Actually, there's no reason whatsoever that Hasbro couldn't use the wiki as a resource under a NC license. They just wouldn't be able to sell any of the exact content of the wiki, if that makes sense.''<br /> :::I believe (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that CC-NC also stipulates that any ''derived'' work must also be CC-NC. So if they rewrite any portion of our content-- or re-create a diagram we created-- that's a derived work they can't include in a comercial product. And since the license actually says that any CC-NC ''element'' caused the entire ''resulting work'' to be CC-NC, that means that if (for example) IDW did photomanip work on a CC-NC image from here and threw it in as an image on a monitor for ''Spotlight: Brunt''-- the entirely of ''Spotlight: Brunt'' would fall out of copyright. Anyone could copy it, alter it, and legally distribute copies of it.<br /> :::What are the odds of a singe identifiable sentence lifted from the wiki ever making it into a TF guidebook by accident? If so-- the entire book is now CC-NC, legal to pirate.<br /> :::At least, that's my ''understanding'' of how CC-NC works-- and I ended up having to '''read''' the entire damn license for a software thing I was working on two years ago that used a PHP-library that was CC-NC. It's the '''same''' license, right? It's not like CC-NC is &quot;made for wikis,&quot; it covers a ''wide range'' of products. Am I wrong on this? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:37, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Clarification-- I'm actually referring to CC-SA3 in the previous section, not CC-NC. but since we're considering ''moving'' to a license that '''would be''' SA3, the scenario still stands.<br /> ::::[http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/ It's right there in plain english]. &lt;tt&gt;If you alter, transform, or build upon this work, you may distribute the resulting work only under the same, similar or a compatible license.&lt;/tt&gt; If any of our content leaked into an official product, that product would suddenly be creative-commons and freely distribuitable.<br /> ::::...why do you think the &quot;free information&quot; people have been braying for the license change? This is a stealth copyright-subversion scheme. as accidental direct lifts from Wikipedia (or any product derived from wikipedia content) slip into comercial products, they will become '''legally contaminated''', and then contaminate anything that uses content FROM them. It's ''better'' than the Public Domain, because derived works based on the public domain are copyrightable... derived works based on CC-SA are ''not'', they are inherently &quot;free.&quot; -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:51, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Well, once again, the [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/ license outright states] that &quot;Waiver — Any of the above conditions can be waived if you get permission from the copyright holder.&quot; So again, even if Hasbro or another licensee wanted to sell any wiki-based work, we could just waive the Share-Alike and Non-Commercial aspects for them alone. So that's not a problem/issue.<br /> :::::And again, I'd rather just make the switch now, then we can always switch again if we find something better down the road. Rather than trying to be hasty about it to fit it in before August, so we don't get locked into the GFDL for good.<br /> :::::Further, it's not like we don't already have all of the potential problems you state under our current license anyway. Doesn't the GDFL already require you to release any derivative material under the GDFL license too? --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:58, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::&quot;The Copyright holder&quot; in this case is every person who has ever edited an article on this wiki, or Wikia before we moved.<br /> :::::::Did you collect thousands of legal proxies that allow you to speak for them? ''You'' can't just legally decide to 'wave a copyright,' nor can a steering committee. The copyright has to be waived by the ''holder''.<br /> :::::::And what the waiver notice is really saying is &quot;you can shortform a separate license understanding independent of this liscence as long as you deal directly with the person who owns the copyright on the work.&quot; That's ''always'' true, it's not a CC thing. You'd have to get a list of every person who's ever edited an article and get them all to agree to waive their rights for Hasbro, which you so casually hand-wave over.<br /> :::::::Maybe a better question-- if the primary reason to switch licenses is this &quot;SAS&quot; clause tyhat infects all derived work-- and we want to ''exempt'' Hasbro from that clause... why are we even switching?<br /> :::::::I'm not even against switching licenses... I just think it should be a ''thought out'' decision, not a casual one. '''This''' discussion has basically consisted of ''&quot;Everyone is switching, it's a good idea u wanna?&quot; &quot;LOL, sure why not!&quot;''<br /> :::::::There are actual not-irrelevant legal ramifications of this decision-- and I'm not sure it's in our best interests ''or'' Hasbro's best interests to do this. Can we actually ''look'' at what we're signing off on before putting it to an up-and-down vote? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:56, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::Well, I can't speak for everyone else, but my end of the discussion is more like, &quot;We only have a month and a half to make the decision, the CC switch looks like it wouldn't add any problems that don't already exist under the GDFL, it might give us some ''benefits'' that don't already exist under the GDFL, and the CC seems to be less binding anyway, so we can switch easier down the road.&quot;<br /> ::::::::Furthermore, considering how we're already going to be able to switch to the new license without requiring everyone's sign-off anyway, I don't see why we can't just put the waiver for Hasbro and their licensees into the switch from the get-go.<br /> ::::::::Then on top of that, if you want to get absolutely technical, since Hasbro and their licensees are the copyright holders for all this stuff to begin with, they get an automatic waver on our derivative work anyway, because we don't have the legal right to lock them out of their own copyright. All we can do is lock non-Hasbro-licensees out of our take on Hasbro's copyright.<br /> ::::::::So, hey, if someone here can get a lawyer to knock out a good alternative in a month and a half, go for it. Otherwise, seeing as how '''the GDFL we're under already ''has'' all the problems you're complaining about''', I see no reason that switching would at least put us any worse off than we are already. All of your alleged problems either already exist anyway under the current GFDL license, or aren't actually problems. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 20:12, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::''I don't see why we can't just put the waiver for Hasbro and their licensees into the switch from the get-go.''<br /> :::::::::Because then you're committing a legal offense against both the copyright holders ''and'' the FSF? That's actually worse than your last suggestion.<br /> :::::::::I'd be a '''lot''' more confident in your judgment about the legal ramifications of the switch if you didn't keep suggesting things that were illegal. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:48, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::&quot;Then on top of that, if you want to get absolutely technical, since Hasbro and their licensees are the copyright holders for all this stuff to begin with, they get an automatic waver on our derivative work anyway, because ''we don't have the legal right to lock them out of their own copyright.'' All we can do is lock non-Hasbro-licensees out of our take on Hasbro's copyright.&quot;<br /> ::::::::::As in, I already know that part, thanks.<br /> ::::::::::As for the FSF part, I'm not sure how it's a legal offense against the FSF to insitute a waiver during the switch that the ''new license already explicitly allows as being possible''.<br /> ::::::::::I'd be a lot more interested in your rebuttals if you sounded like you read not only what I already wrote, but what the legal articles themselves say. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 20:58, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::In any case, like I said, if someone here can afford to ask a lawyer about this, I've got no objections to that. But I have to admit you haven't said how staying with the GFDL solves any of your concerns, seeing as how AFAIK said concerns all exist under our current GDFL too. *shrug* --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:03, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::''I'm not sure how it's a legal offense against the FSF to insitute a waiver during the switch that the ''new license already explicitly allows as being possible''.''<br /> :::::::::::# You don't have the legal right to act as the proxy of everyone who's edited this wiki by declaring a waiver in any circumstance.<br /> :::::::::::# You intend to muddy those legal waters by making the acceptance of this waiver a rider on the license switchover-- the FSF debated for almost a ''year'' before finally deciding the two liscences were close enough to make the switch-- '''they''' have the legal right to determine what new licensing is and is not permissible under GFDL. That's like taking a EULA for a piece of software, agreeing to it, then declaring, &quot;And now I'm going to make unilateral revisions to it without the other side of this contract's knowledge or agreement-- but they're totally legally binding and I can grant myself extra rights with them.&quot; And that's even ''aside'' from making them an an accessory of your unlawful claim of proxy over the thousands of editors who've created content. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:16, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::::#We're already making a claim of proxy over the editors by being able to switch the license to begin with.<br /> ::::::::::::#The whole point is moot anyway, because way I see it, we ''have'' to effectively give Hasbro a waiver on using anything on this wiki in their own commercial copyright, because we don't have any copyright powers over their content anyway. I don't see how we could legally force Hasbro to have no control over their own copyright to begin with, just because we wrote about it under a share-alike license, because we never had the copyrights to begin with! And that exact same problem already exists under the GFDL we're already under.&lt;br/&gt;Again, the only right we have at all is to keep non-Hasbro-licensees from using our content in certain ways.<br /> ::::::::::::#In short, you're the one being silly by making the claim we have the right to ever lock Hasbro out of their own copyright to begin with. You can't be unlawful by having people give up rights they don't actually have anyway. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:54, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::::''We're already making a claim of proxy over the editors by being able to switch the license to begin with.<br /> :::::::::::::No, you're not. All of those original users granted you the right to make a ''specific'' proxy call (switch from GFDL 1.3 to CC-BY-SA3 '''only''') under an obscure clause in GFDL. That right was granted every time an edit was made, and has lain dormant ever since. And relicensing ''not'' explicitly made provision for under an updated GFDL would require you to ''contact'' all those users and get them to sign off on it. This specific license change ''only'' was pre-approoved. It's like checking the &quot;Organ doner, eyes&quot; tab on your driver's license. You granted themt he right to take your eyes ''if the opportunity came up''. When you show up in an operating room brain dead, they can't just arbitrarily decide to take your liver too without the permission of your legal custodian. (In this metaphor, that would be &quot;going back to the original editors or their Power of Attorney heir and asking them to sign off on it.&quot;)<br /> :::::::::::::STOP TRYING TO STEAL MY DAMN LIVER! I SWEAR, EVERY DAY... THAT DAMN BIRD! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:33, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::::::You still have yet to explain how any license we apply can possibly block out Hasbro from having the rights to their own copyright. Therefore, yet again, the whole point is moot, because Hasbro would already technically exempt from the SA (&amp; NC) parts of the license anyway no matter what we try to claim. Yet again, you can't take away rights from our editors that they never had to begin with.<br /> ::::::::::::::The best you can possibly do is state that our claim of being under the GFDL is already invalid anyway, because we don't have the right to ever force Hasbro to release their own copyrighted material under the same GFDL license if they use our writings. In which case we might as well just ignore this whole deal that thus doesn't apply to us anyway, and switch to whatever Memory Alpha does. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:47, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::::::We would not be locking Hasbro out of their own copyrights-- Hasbro would be at risk to involuntarily surrender many of their rights. That's a different thing.<br /> :::::::::::::::Devaluation of the Transformers license? That too. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:59, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::::::::Why would Hasbro surrender any of its rights? We have the right to say how our content is used, but we don't have any right to say how Hasbro gets to use its own copyrighted material, whether they use our writings or not. You don't get to claim copyright over something just by writing about it. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:19, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::::::::If you don't grasp the concept that we have some copyright claim over our own article text here (the starting point) I don't really feel like going another round explaining everythign that follows ''after'' that to you, because it's a non-starter. There's no point in laying out the problems involved if you're stuck on the givens at the starting point.<br /> :::::::::::::::::Refer to my previous example with ''Spotlight: Brunt'' for why SA3 would be undesirable for IDW. See how that legal ambiguity makes the TF License (which IDW pays an annual fee for) worth less money. Listen as I tell you that the people pushing for this license change ''intend'' that legal ambiguity because they have an axe to grind against copyright, and they intend to cause so much ''suffering'' (and hopefully few landmark legal cases) that copyright law gets reformed.<br /> :::::::::::::::::That's great. I think copyright law needs reform. But their method for doing so involves creating '''massive legal headaches''' for vast numbers of people. I'd prefer TFWiki and Hasbro ''not'' be among those numbers of people. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:04, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::::::::But like Jeysie said, GFDL ''already'' has those problems, it's a Share-Alike-style license and has all the weird ambiguities that CC-By-SA has for a fandom wiki, so I'm not sure how switching advances the Brave Copyright Cause and exposes TFWiki to legal troubles anymore than the license we're already stuck with? --[[User:Fleb|fleb]] 00:43, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::^^ This. And, you're still not paying attention to anything else I've said either.<br /> ::::::::::Hasbro has control over their copyright. And, to be perfectly honest, in the end Hasbro has full control over ''our'' stuff too anyway because it's technically unauthorized derivative works. I've known several fangames once where the parent company basically made them either sign control of the game over to them or delete the games entirely. What the fangame people wanted to do with their games regards licensing meant precisely jack, because they didn't control the copyright their work was based on. This is exactly the same situation.<br /> ::::::::::We can get away with making people not licensed by Hasbro follow our rules regards our content, but that's it. If Hasbro wants to use our content, they have the right to dictate the terms of use, not us.<br /> ::::::::::Now, if we were writing entirely original work here that wasn't based on any existing property, ''then'' we could dictate terms, because Hasbro would be using something that we had full copyright control over. ''That's'' where forcing people into using the same Share-Alike license comes into play. But since Hasbro made the initial things we're deriving ''our'' work from, we have to play by their rules for their content. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 01:21, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::But copyright-- even with derived works-- is ''not'' a black-and-white thing with one owner. If I made a &quot;Freddy Krueger vs. Aliens&quot; fanfilm, New Line Cinema can't claim 100% ownership over my work simply by virtue of the fact that they can't claim ownership over aliens. But they ''also'' can't claim ownership over my original character heroine. That belongs to '''me''', not New Line or Fox.<br /> :::::::::::Either New Line or Fox could scuttle my project (if I was insane enough to try and distribuit it) or even keep me from putting it up on YouTube-- because the work cannot exist without their copyrighted characters.<br /> :::::::::::But, even ''after'' that happened, there's nothing to prevent me from re-filming the movie as &quot;Dr. Jeckel vs. the Moorlocks&quot; with my fanchar heroine intact. Despite not having the right to use Fox and new Lines characters... the &quot;value added&quot; elements of my copyright-violating production '''remain my property'''.<br /> :::::::::::And your failure to understand that is what's keeping you fron understanding the implications of SA3.<br /> :::::::::::I freely ''admit'' they're largely '''abstract''' implications, because no one of us or hasbro actually ''cares''... but I also think that this licensing switchover is being pushed by a group with an agenda in mind that boils down to ''&quot;get a lot of people (mainly Wikipedia) to switch their licensing, and watch legal havoc that ensues after a couple years as unforeseen implications start fucking up the copyright of books, TV episodes and movies, making their copyright status so murky, debatable and indeterminate that they essentially become legally piratable.&quot;'' and while GFDL might have some of those same problems, '''it''' isn't the license they're urging people to switch to.<br /> :::::::::::So if both licenses are '''equally bad''', I'd much rather stick with the one we currently have rather than switch to the one that's probably going to be challenged in the supreme court 5 years from now.<br /> :::::::::::Or at the ''very'' least have a conversation where the burden is on CC-BY-SA3 to show some ''benefit'' to us for switching, and not on me to prove GFDL is better. Why is our action simply being ''taken for granted'' here? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:04, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::::Well, I understand how ''copyright'' actually works, because I've seen people have to deal with it. I don't understand your comment on the whole deal, no, because it makes no sense.<br /> ::::::::::::It's true that if Hasbro objects to our wiki writing about Transformers we could technically re-write it to refer to something similar but different enough to avoid Hasbro's copyright. However, unlike your &quot;Dr. Jeckel vs. the Moorlocks&quot; example, our doing that would be useless. In this case, it's not our value-added elements that make the wiki useful, it's the fact that the wiki is about Transformers. Take away the &quot;about Transformers&quot; part, and our wiki becomes pointless. Hasbro's copyright ''is'' the intrinsic value of this wiki.<br /> ::::::::::::So yes, it is an abstract implication, but it's not because nobody cares.<br /> ::::::::::::As for why switch, it basically boils down to: if we are compliant with the GDFL, then switching to the CC-BY-SA means we have the same restrictions, ''and'' will also have our info be incompatible for usage with anyone who stays on the GDFL, and we'll be able to require attribution. Basically, it gives us some benefits above the existing GDFL's benefits, without adding or removing any restrictions.<br /> ::::::::::::If we're ''not'' compliant with the GDFL due to Hasbro's copyright claims, then it turns out we're not bound by the GDFL anyway, because we never had the legal right to claim that license on our work. In which case, again, we get to ignore all this and switch to whatever license someplace like Memory Alpha has.<br /> ::::::::::::But in either case, switching gives us benefits over the current GDFL. So it really is on you to prove why staying with the GDFL is better, sorry. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 08:31, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> Whaaat? No, Derik's right. Windmills and copyright do not work that way. J. K. Rowling does not have the right to re-publish Dumbledore/Grindelwald Harry Potter [[fanfic]]. Original owners have the right to stop distribution of unauthorized derivatives, but they don't have the right to anything not already created by themselves. (So that would mean yes, ironically, fanfiction authors could C&amp;D original authors infringing on the fanfiction's copyrights. But somehow I think they would restrain themselves.)&lt;br/&gt;<br /> And if we're violating the GFDL by using it to document Transformers, we aren't then &quot;not bound;&quot; because that would mean our existence is illegal, and we don't get to throw up our hands and say &quot;Well we're already illegal, might as well be illegal in a totally different way!&quot; So no, we can't just ignore everything and switch to any license but CC-By-SA-3.0. --[[User:Fleb|fleb]] 13:49, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I know that Hasbro doesn't have the right to simply go ahead and publish our work without any agreement with us. But, based on my experiences with seeing other fan creators dealing with legal things regards their work, they do have the right to either make us take our work down, or relinquish our rights to it in some manner. We don't have the right to force Hasbro to use our work according to certain terms as long as it's a derivative of their work.<br /> :As for our existence being illegal, well yeah, if you want to get technical, we're already as illegal as all other fanworks anyway. I don't see what the validity or otherwise of the contract the work was created under has to do with it, if the contract allows you to do that type of work.<br /> :But essentially, the core of my confusion with Derik's concerns is: I don't see how he could be claiming we can ever force Hasbro to follow our terms on derivative works, when our work is already a derivative of Hasbro's work, and thus we already have to follow Hasbro's terms on derivative work. I mean, it's not that his concerns don't make sense to me from a general perspective. It's that they only make sense to me if we're the originator on top of the derivative work chain, which isn't the case here. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:34, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::''based on my experiences with seeing other fan creators dealing with legal things regards their work, they do have the right to either make us take our work down, or relinquish our rights to it in some manner.''<br /> ::They have the right to threaten or strongarm someone, and the person they're threatening has the right to cave. But they have no ability to &quot;make you relinquish your rights.&quot;<br /> ::The idea that New Line owns ''everything'' in any work I created means that they'd be claiming ownership not just of my Mary Sue, but also of Fox's Aliens. So that's clearly not true on the face of it. There is a completely unprooven legal theory that a copyright owner could actually ''own'' all the value-added additions made to a derived work... but it has '''literally''' never been tested (because Paramount has no desire to own a lot of Kirk/Spock bondage fics) and there is a strong suspicion that if it ever ''went'' to trial, the entire concept would be shot down.<br /> ::Regardless-- you're '''again''' arguing &quot;my experience,&quot; and that's the ''fundamental'' source of the musunderstanding here. You're talking about how the law is actually '''implemented'''. I'm talking about what the law '''is'''. In '''your experience''', no one cares if you go through a red light if there's no one around. But I'm telling you it's '''still illegal'''.<br /> ::And since the ''kind'' of illegal we're talking about can have a slow corrosive effect on Hasbro's copyrights, that abstract legality could come back to bite us ''and'' Hasbro in the ass. So I'd like to have a real, ''actual'' discussion about this. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:54, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Um, the entire ''point'' of copyright is that you have control over how your copyrighted work is used. If you create something using copyrighted work, then the copyright holder very much has control over what you do with it, because you're using their copyrights. Otherwise, why have copyright to begin with?<br /> :::Now, if you remove the copyrighted material from your work, ''then'', yes, the copyright holder indeed has no control over your work, because it has no copyrighted material. Problem is that, while that might help out a fancreator if they can change their work into something original, it does us no good, because the entire point of our wiki is that it's about Transformers specifically. We could technically rewrite it to not be about Transformers, but that would just defeat the point.<br /> :::My ''experience'' is that fanworks are always illegal, it's just that most of the time companies turn their head because usually it nets them more goodwill and publicity than anything the fanwork is taking away from them. But it's within a company's rights to turn around and tell you to either take your fanwork down, change it so it no longer contains their copyrights, or obtain a waiver from them/sign over your rights to continue displaying it.<br /> :::Basically, the reason this is weird is because, you seem like you're saying that we can tell people who create derivative work based from our work how to use it, yet also saying that Hasbro doesn't have the same right to tell us how to use the derivative work we created from their work. Why would we have certain copyright rights, yet Hasbro not have those same rights? --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 20:28, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Ehh, you know what, this is all getting way, way off track. The only real question worth considering that's been raised with all this is whether we had a right to claim our work fits under the GDFL to begin with. If we did, then switching makes sense. If we didn't, then the contract is technically void/annulled, and we need to switch to some new license regardless. Either way, staying with the GDFL itself seems pointless to me. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:19, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::::And, as beautifully Machiavellian as Derik's contamination scenario is, it still wouldn't negate &quot;fair use&quot; anyway in the case of such a small &quot;lift&quot;. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 19:44, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::But this isn't ''about'' fair use. It's about people who've read Lawrence Lessig's book and attended Disinfocon having a pissing contest and trying to upend how Copyright works.<br /> :::::::See how casually you said it? Suddenly instead of ''us'' claiming fair use use of Hasbro's intellectual property-- Hasbro is having to claim fair use of ''our'' property. And fair use is never ''proven'' until it's challenged-- so ''any'' instance of &quot;fair use&quot; derived work ''massively'' weakens Hasbro's copyright on their own material-- because anyone ''wanting'' to claim their work is now SA3 is is now free to do so... and the burden is shifted onto ''Hasbro'' to hire lawyers and prove it's ''not''.<br /> :::::::That kind of mad-cow subversion tactics would normally make me grin like an idiot-- but just because I approve of malotov-wielding free-culturists are planning the legal equivalent of the World Bank Protests '''doesn't mean I want to be stuck in the middle of it.''' -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:56, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :#Derik causing problems? ''Never...'' :p<br /> :#'''It's a binary choice - the GDFL3 licence ONLY allows us to change to CC-BY-SA3 and THEN ONLY if we do it before the 1st of August, 2009.''' The only way we could change in any other direction would be to track down every user who's ever contributed and either get them to relicense their contributions or excise their contributions and derivatives thereof from the wiki. Given that, thanks to Mr Bookworm, we don't even HAVE a complete list of contributors...<br /> :#I think you're getting Daken mixed up with Erista (thank you Eric J. Moreels...) there<br /> :#McFly, not McFeely.<br /> :#The main point is number 2 - we don't have the freedom to custom-design a licence. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 17:51, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Sure we do! It just has to be a license that doesn't violate any of the GFDL or CC-BY-SA3 requirements! That's not hard, I do object-oriented programming! Same basic principle!<br /> :::(In all seriousness, from a legal standpoint, you'd probably set up sort of &quot;type-coercion comfort trap&quot;, which is like a Dan Brown novel written by a lawyer with a minor in game theory. I'd want to get a lawyer to ''check'' it-- I know a few-- but I'm fairly sure you ''could'' do it, legally.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:37, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::I'm a tad confused about what you're saying - the GDFL and the CC-BY-SA are both designed to ''limit restrictions'' on the (re)use of work. If you're ''adding more restrictions'' than either specifies (i.e., if I licence my work to you under the condition that you must give a copy to anyone who fulfils condition X, and must not give a copy to anyone who ''doesn't''; you can't then impose condition Y, which means ''not only that'' you restrict who you give a copy to ''to a subset'' of group X will receive a copy from you, but that ''you DO give copies to'' a subset of group ''Not-X''...), then you're in breach of the basic licence, ja? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 19:44, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::You offer s separate license with GFDL+ (or CC+) permission for new content (generated after the date) for specific commercial purposes. On the date of adoption, the two liscences are exactly equal, but as time goes on, the GFDL/CC+ becomes increasingly attractive, because it offers a commercial reuser a ''better'' legal foothold on their own material. You are giving them ''more'' rights to the material, provided they operate according to certain restrictions. They ''could'' always choose to license the content under vanilla GFDL (or whatever,) but that ''gives up'' the increased privileges they have for the post-adoption material.<br /> :::::The beauty is that such a liscence need not differentiate as to ''what'' part of the material is eligible for one liscence but not the other... it's a ''diffuse'' legal benefit over the content that their lawyers would ''force'' them to choose-- but '''we''' are not forcing them to choose; the content remains accessible under GFDL, as the GFDL requires, but we offer incentives of ''increased'' re-usage rights for newer content in exchange for restricted action.<br /> :::::...this isn't going to make any sense without a chart, is it? There are force-gradients involved. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:33, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Okay Derik, simple basic question - if Creative Commons licences are so set for copyright Armageddon, how come Memory Alpha (one of the biggest wikis on the internets, and one which many ST creatives - including the writers of this year's movie [who also happen to write Transformers movies] - have freely admitted to using) has always been under a CC licence without Viacom/Paramount/CBS imploding? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:04, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Because Memory Alpha is licensed under &lt;tt&gt;Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial 2.5 Generic license&lt;/tt&gt;. Note the absence of the &quot;Share and share alike&quot; clause, which in the source of the Copyright Armageddon I'm ranting about. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:20, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Okay, Derik. Bottom-line it for me. How likely is this to result in Tina Turner forcing me to fight in a cage with a brutally strong man with the mind of a child?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 22:04, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Well, Tina Turner is signed with Virgin, and so was The Verve, whose &quot;Bitter Sweet Symphony,&quot; got the band sued out of existence due to a 3-second sampling they claimed was &quot;fair use,&quot; but Mick Jagger felt was a big enough use to be a copyright violation. The courts agreed, and for a 3 second sample, they lost all rights tot he song and Jagger is now listed as the songwriter.<br /> :::So I'd say the odds of Tina Turner smacking you around for not paying attention to this important and non-trivial legal issue involving copyright are in the range of at ''least'' 30-35% if we plow ahead heedlessly. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:23, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Wow. Okay. Lots of words to catch up on all of a sudden. Glad I sorta-started all this, I guess?&lt;br/&gt;<br /> Going waaay back to Derik's first question: [http://freedomdefined.org/Licenses#Comparison_of_Licenses There is, indeed, a breakdown. In table form.] &lt;br/&gt;<br /> ''&quot;which is like a Dan Brown novel written by a lawyer with a minor in game theory&quot;'' I would totally read that. --[[User:Fleb|fleb]] 00:13, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I don't trust that table. I dont' feel informed after viewing it, I feel brushed off.<br /> :I think I need to re-read me the full GFDL to do a proper comparison.<br /> :&lt;nowiki&gt;*sigh*&lt;/nowiki&gt; I was hoping I wouldn't have to read this thing again. Last time I had drugs to make it better. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:20, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Okay, so from what you're saying, the problem with Creative Commons is that... by jumping on the CC bandwagon we might become part of a bigger target in the culture wars or otherwise pull Hasbro into the line of fire, because a CC-licensed thing is more likely to get its day in court someday, because it's popular. Whereas the GFDL, with which we shall stay for ever and ever, will safely gather dust in the FSF's basement for the next hundred years where the light of legal precedent can never touch it. <br /> <br /> And also a problem is if Hasbro or its licensees try to reuse our content and unwittingly license their own work under Creative Commons. Honestly, if they make a mistake like that... it's their mistake. It's no different from plagiarizing a random Transformers blog. It shouldn't happen, and it's not our responsibility if someone, somewhere might forget to do due diligence in a hypothetical future. --[[User:Fleb|fleb]] 21:33, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ===Oh, hey there===<br /> [[Image:Meta-Wikiaccbysa.jpg|thumb|right|250px|]]<br /> Look who else switched to CC-BY-SA. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 00:20, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Pfft. We shouldn't not switch just because Wikia is.<br /> :I finished auditing the fine print of both licenses last night. (Whoever said the CC one is easier to read: Lies.) I need to digest 'em... I think the GFDL is a better license for where we are ''now'', but CC-BY-SA includes a clause I was ''hoping'' would be in GFDL that might play into future legal wrangling. (Simply because-- it's a license intended to be used by artists, and it doesn't handle our copyright situation well any more than GFDL does.)<br /> :Regardless which one we pick, I think TFWiki needs to do ''something'' unique to better position ourselves, legally. I'm still ruminating what that might be. (Fortunately, we've got time yet.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:41, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::FWIW, I got a reply from the GNU folks, and the CC-BY-SA3 is indeed the only license we can switch to under this particular allowance. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 00:58, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Yes, I got that. They had to amend the GFDL to even make that possible. I don't think we can even make it CC-BY-SA3-NC.<br /> :::So if we ''do'' intend to wriggle around it somehow, it will probably require some vigorous legal calisthenics. (Fortunately legalese doesn't intimidate me.)<br /> :::I just haven't figured out which license is a better starting point for those calisthenics yet. Maybe I'll blog about the subject to get my thoughts straight. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:34, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::The full reply, if it helps:<br /> ::::{{quote|Unfortunately, the GFDL 1.3 (which enables the relicensing) specifically lists CC-BY-SA3 as the license that a wiki can migrate to, and so that is the only license available under this relicensing provision.<br /> <br /> In addition, a non-commercial license is not really a free license, instead it is considered semi-free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/categories.html#semi-freeSoftware). The GFDL (as well as all GNU licenses) permits commercial use and distribution. While I understand your concerns, being able to use and distribute a work for any purpose, even a commercial purpose, is a part of the freedom that we work towards protecting here at the FSF. Thank you once again for your interest, and good luck with your project.}}<br /> ::::--[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 01:46, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Right, any gymnastics would have to take place outside of this licensing provision, which we're not allowed to do.<br /> :::::(Law can be wonderfully fun when you see it as the illusionary cultural construct-- like a monster in a fairy tale whose ''terms'' must be met, but is stupid and easily tricked by turning its words against it.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:15, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::You see, this is exactly the kind of granola-crunching BS that I'm worried about. &quot;Woo, look at us! We're so clever, Information Wants To Be Free, Fight The Power!&quot; Er, no. Information wants nothing. It's data. It's a thing, an inanimate pile of electron states jumbled up into a system which we can comprehend. We can claim that we Mean No Harm, that we're a Free Information Repository For All Things Transformers, but in the end, we have screencaps, quotes, bios, comic summaries, and roughly 25 years worth of history all crammed into this site. If Hasbro wanted to, they could shut us down '''right now''' just by scaring us with enough of a nasty C&amp;D. I don't exactly see us armed with a high-powered law firm, for one, and second, unless someone in this thread *coughDerikcough* wants to produce a JD and back his comments with '''actual legal expertise,''' we're merely guessing as to what we can and can't get away with. On top of all of that, flaunting what we can theoretically get away with on a public web page with an ideally-infinite revision history means that you've just peed in the swimming pool that is the Internet. Perhaps we can make this all easier by just charging for access, thumbing our noses at the law, and even hosting a torrent of the movie, just to make damned sure that we get dragged into court? Smartassery + Law is a combination best left to those who have studied the practice of law. --[[User:McFly|McFly]] 21:09, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Your sarcastiggestion seems like the opposite of what's going on, if the goal's more to &quot;get away with&quot; adding ''more'' pro-Hasbro restrictions to ourselves/the content. And how does their granola-crunching email impact anything? That's them. Not us.<br /> ::::::Anyway, I think there's one other plus point to a switch; the CC licenses get updated at a reasonable rate. There's a chance the folks in charge will listen to concerns about fanwork and adopt language into version 4.0 or 5.0 to fit it better-- they seem to [http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/5908 solicit feedback] like that. There's not much of a chance of our use case being relevant to version 2.0 of a license intended for software documentation... ---[[User:Fleb|fleb]] 22:16, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ===Going back to the well===<br /> Alright, in my mind we need to re-center this discussion. The first question is:<br /> #'''Why did we originally want to re-license?'''<br /> <br /> Which, scrolling up, seems to be &quot;because it would provide a legal barrier to Wikia stealing what new content we've generated since the move.&quot; This, as also shown above, has become a moot point due to Wikia re-licensing in the ''exact same fashion''.<br /> <br /> So, that particular aim coming to naught, we instead need to ask ''these'' two questions.<br /> #'''Is there any remaining benefit to re-licensing?'''<br /> #'''Does said benefit outweigh the hassle of doing it?'''<br /> <br /> I look forward to answers to these.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 22:33, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Asking for permission to post links==<br /> I'm the current Bureaucrat at [http://ghostbusters.wikia.com Ghostbusters Wiki], and there was interest in placing links to articles on this wiki to Ghostbusters wiki articles, and likewise placing links on Ghostbusters wiki to articles relating to content which has been brought up. I don't know a great deal of your wikis past dealings, other than wikia apparently kept your old wiki's content when you moved. Anyways, the wiki would rather reference to your present wiki than the one currently at wikia. We are hoping you wouldn't mind the links to our characters on pages related to the [http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Race_with_the_Devil Race with the Devil] article. [http://ghostbusters.wikia.com/wiki/User:Devilmanozzy Devilmanozzy] 02:10, June 8, 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Can you give a few examples of articles on your wiki which would benefit from having links to this site? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 03:37, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::IIRC it's whatshername's assistants-- the ones from the Earthforce story (Running with the Devil?) that Wildman based on the RGB models.<br /> ::(I personally have no problem with the links. Though I think this guy added 'em once, misformatted, and they got reverted.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:06, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::That wasn't Nozzy but Liberal Noob, while not logged in. I told the original guy to take a step back and mind their P's and Q's before we start crosslinking, especially since it was an anonymous IP at the time. But yeah, he wants to crosslink with Race the Devil and Susan Hoffman.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 13:43, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Only direct link between the Ghostbusters Cartoon and the G1 Transformers cartoon is [[Frank Welker]] sounded like one of his TF roles when he voiced a ghost from time to time. I a am sorry for my wanton linking and it will not happen again. --[[User:Liberal Noob|Liberal Noob]] 22:57, 8 June 2009 (EDT) <br /> :::I meant which pages on the Ghostbusters wiki would benefit from having links on them to our wiki. I'm curious, because I regard myself as reasonably familiar with Ghostbusters, and I can't think offhand of any references to Transformers in it. Perhaps in one of the cartoons? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:55, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Thanks for the replies on this matter. A good user Liberal Noob had requested that I would more address this, apparently the mod needed to say something and form a partnership in order to have links posted related to one anothers material. To answer the question of what articles would be hyperlinked, I believe he was planning on linking to the animated pages for Peter Venkman, Egon Spengler, and Ray Stantz. Thats what I understand is being requested to being linked to.[[User:Devilmanozzy|Devilmanozzy]] 19:42, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::We're not wondering which pages on our wiki would link to your wiki. We were wondering which pages on your wiki would need to link to our wiki. We didn't know there ''were'' any Transformers references in any Ghostbusters media, and thus didn't know you'd need to link to us from your wiki. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:59, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::[[Race with the Devil]], [[Susan Hoffman]], [[Starscream's Ghost]], [[Horri-Bull]], and a few others. Links will be on is a article on [http://ghostbusters.wikia.com/wiki/Ghostbusters_Cameos Ghostbusters Cameos]. Note I believe that the section will be better built soon.[[User:Devilmanozzy|Devilmanozzy]] 20:21, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Seems like there's a few other connections in terms of voice actors ([[Tara Strong]], [[Frank Welker]], [[Maurice LaMarche]] etc) as well. I think linking between the two sites is a good idea. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 23:37, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::Yeah I had noticed that too as I looked around here the last few days. Never knew how much Ghostbusters and Transformers had in common.[[User:Devilmanozzy|Devilmanozzy]] 23:40, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::While I'm broadly in favour of this, could you maybe change &quot;[[Starscream's Ghost]]&quot; to &quot;[[Starscream (G1)|Starscream's ghost]]&quot; - I understand you want to keep the ghost theme going but the first is a link to an unrelated episode of the cartoon series, rather than the character himself. --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 07:02, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::OK Emvee, I fixed the link on the Ghostbusters wiki as you requested. Devilmanozzy, ''[[Star Wars]]'' also has a [[Darth Vader|lot in common]] with ''Transformers''. --[[User:Liberal Noob|Liberal Noob]] 14:52, 11 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::We know, we got named an official friend of Wookiepedia about a week into the [[Project: Bookworm Crash]]. If we hadn't been scrambling to pick up the pieces, our pages would probably reflect this more. (I assume we'll integrate more when Clone Wars starts up again, since we love to attention-whore ourselves that way.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:56, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::[http://www.therealeffingdeal.com/blog/dan-akroyd-ghostbusterhero/ Here is] an obscure crossover from [[The Real Effing Deal]]. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 00:09, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Quick Links? ==<br /> <br /> You know, now that I think about it, one thing Wikia actually did do right was having some &quot;Quick Links&quot; on the sidebar. I find myself missing being able to quickly get to the main continuities/series without having to search or click to the Main Page first. (Especially now that there's lots o' ROTF toys to keep tabs on...)<br /> <br /> Nothing extensive necessary; just one linkie thingy with a fly-out menu for our six main continuities and the full series list would probably work nicely. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 03:03, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I think notably M.Sipher *really* hated that because any time a cursor went within a parsec of the menu, it would pop out in an annoying manner. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:09, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Wasn't just Sipher - it drove me nuts too. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 09:09, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Well, in that case, maybe just an extra sidemenu then, kind of like the &quot;Campaign Navigation&quot; box on [http://trinsic.alienharmony.com/Main_Page this sidebar]? I just figured that a fly-out menu would save space, but an extra link sidebar would work for me too.<br /> :::But I'd definitely like something. As Abates points out below, we don't currently have any sidebar links for actually ''browsing''. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 12:47, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Could we make so that they're fly-out menus, but that they only fly-out if you actually click on the title? That would save room while avoiding things jumping out when you're waving the cursor around. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 22:11, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I think having a link on the sidebar for Revenge of the Fallen would be good too. While the Community portal and Recent Changes links are great for us Editors, they're not likely to be used much by casual visitors. We should be using the menu to draw attention to major articles. While I'm thinking about it, we could probably change the Main Page link to read &quot;Transformers Wiki&quot;... --[[User:Abates|abates]] 04:11, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Would anyone object if I went ahead and popped a link to [[Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen]] in the navigation menu? I'm thinking between &quot;Main Page&quot; and &quot;Community portal&quot;. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:44, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I'm not of the upper brass but given the increasing coverage of ROTF as we come down the wire, it'd make the most sense. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 19:00, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == We need a new adspace ==<br /> <br /> The TFwiki on our new server is doing super mega amounts of bandwidth! (Note I've broken up the OPtimus Prime (G1) page, because, dude, that thing was a monster.) So, uh, I think we need to add a new adspace. One that's *above* the fold, since the ones we have are shoved down in the corner where no one can see them. What advertiser would want to dump loads of money on those? What I'm proposing is a 486x60 banner-shaped ad up above the &quot;article/discussion/edit/history/delete/move/watch&quot; links, nestled in between the Teletraan 1 image and the personal toolbar. (You know, OUTSIDE of the content.) If this is a terrible idea, I will also accept $5 donations. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:14, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I've no qualms with that. That was one of the &quot;acceptable&quot; adspaces, if I recall from the old discussions.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 11:18, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Long as they don't dance or talk or sing, that'll work. Are we actively pursuing advertisers these days? -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 11:22, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Well, &quot;actively pursuing advertisers&quot; is somewhat incompatible with our current ad setup. To put an ad on our site now, that requires signing up with Project Wonderful and bidding. This is good for us because it's mostly automated. If we were to set up a &quot;real&quot; in the traditional sense, we'd need a full-time ad pursuer to fill those spots. The best we can do in our current situation is to try to convince Big Bad Toy Store and its ilk to sign up for Project Wonderful. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:33, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :IIRC, above-the-article is what we wanted Wikia to switch ''back'' to. I have no objection. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 12:20, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Works for me. How does Ant handle TFU.info's advertising? [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 12:35, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Doesn't bother me... but can we either put it ''under'' the personal bar, or somehow make it so the personal bar would wrap? Otherwise, I'm staring at the top of my screen and realizing that I'd have an annoying horizontal scroll bar afterwards whenever I'm logged in.<br /> :I have to admit I'm kind of befuddled that we're apparently doing so much more traffic after the move than we were before, to the point of having all those initial problems because we weren't expecting it. Did the new server somehow improve our traffic, it is sheer coincidence that traffic increased for other reasons, or was it more like the old server wasn't keeping track of bandwidth or anything, so we had no idea how we were actually doing? --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 12:38, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Hosting with Bookworm was cheap. I mean, he was doing it at-cost. Or would have, if he ever invoiced us. Now that we've moved on, we're purchasing hosting from people who actually want to make money off us. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 12:41, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Well, the money's part of it, but I was also thinking about how most of our initial operational troubles seemed to stem from having more traffic to deal with than we realized we were going to have, to the point of even having to run a caching setup I'm guessing we weren't running on the old server. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 12:45, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::The way Bookworm had his servers set up, it was difficult for him to separate out what was our traffic versus what was other traffic on the same server. He gave us an estimate which turned out to be wrong. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 12:55, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Aah, OK. Wasn't sure if it was something we needed to worry about or not. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 13:29, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::I was kinda expecting this :( I'm cool with more banners, and I think you should beg us for money now and then. We may be able to help when we can. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:15, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Caching is what most mediawiki installations '''do.''' We happened to start off on the most resource-intensive wiki software imaginable, and any stats from Bookworm were not only inaccurate based on whatever he was doing in the logs, but also because back then, ''the wiki was constantly crashing.'' You get zero hits per hour when it's down, and no stats in the world would help clear ''that'' up. I'm still tweaking the hit stats, and it'll be at least a week before I can start extrapolating growth numbers, but suffice it to say, we're going to go over our current bandwidth limit before the month is out, and while we won't get shut down, we ''will'' get billed for overages. Think of it like a normal cellphone plan instead of a pre-paid one. --[[User:McFly|McFly]] 11:47, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Yeah, that's mainly what I thought Walky meant. Nestled between the personal bar and the article tabs seems like fertile ground for a banner ad.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 13:39, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> I've got the ad code ready to go, whenever we can edit the CSS or whatever to make room. Here is our awesome new placeholder &quot;please bid here&quot; graphic: [https://www.projectwonderful.com/imagewrapper.php?img=img/uploads/pics/20719-1244569575.jpg&amp;rand=439981] --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:48, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Looks good so far. Potentially odd question: are these particular dimensions popular with Project Wonderful?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 15:55, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::The Leaderboard (700ishx90) and the Big Box (300x250) are the most popular sizes, but those would really ugly up our page. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:58, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::And now it has its first client! That was fast.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 01:52, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Ahhh, Dreamland Chronicles is awesome. I spent a week a few months back reading through their archives after following an ad on our sidebar. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 02:20, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::One interesting thing looking at the Project Wonderful stats is that our ad hits are ''stabilizing'' now, and they're stabilizing fairly high relative to where they were when the site was still spotty. That's got to look good for advertisers, and if the site holds up to the abuse that the film debut is going to subject it to that's only beneficial to us in the end.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 02:48, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> [[Image:Ptbar-notmeanttobehere.png|thumb|This = bad]]<br /> Uh, I'm using Monobook, and as a result of this, the watchlist/preferences/etc bar has somehow ended up at the ''bottom'' of the page, just above the About Transformers Wiki/Powered by MediaWiki/etc... - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 10:36, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I got that on a couple of pages, too, and alt+F5ing didn't work. How I fixed it was I signed out and viewed those same pages as an anon. The userbar went back to where it should be, and it stayed there when I logged in again. - [[User:Magnus Maximus|Magnus Maximus]] 10:49, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Tried that, didn't work.<br /> ::In fact, it's worse than I thought, because I didn't notice at first that the page/discussion/edit tabs have gone wandering too, and are floating around the place (the &quot;discussion&quot; and &quot;edit&quot; tabs are currently in the middle of this edit box, and I can't see the others anywhere). - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 10:58, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::'''THE PROBLEM IS IN common.css'''.<br /> :::The following CSS borks monobook. This is why you should use the specific stylesheets for each skin, NOT the common file:<br /> &lt;pre&gt;<br /> #p-personal {<br /> position: relative;<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> #p-personal .pBody {<br /> float: right;<br /> }<br /> <br /> #p-cactions {<br /> position: relative;<br /> }<br /> <br /> #content {<br /> margin-top: 16px !important;<br /> position: relative;<br /> }&lt;/pre&gt;<br /> :::-[[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 11:30, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> The new ad space at the top of the page, which was fine yesterday, is now looking screwy in Firefox, with the ad behind the top of the Autobot symbol in the logo and the tabs at the top of the bar. Like so: [[Image:Top-ad-screwy.jpg|thumb]] --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 16:43, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Works fine for me in 3.0.10 and 3.5b99, both after clearing cache.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 16:47, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I made some CSS modifications in response to SanityOrMadness's issue, which may cache improperly. Try a hard refresh/clearing your cache. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 16:51, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Okay, clearing my cache fixed it. --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 20:19, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> === Is it working? ===<br /> So, between the new banner and our ad display stats in general being ''much'' better since the server stabilized, does this mean that we're taking in what we need to?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 14:57, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> : I think so! We're averaging about $5 a day, which means $150 a month. Our hosting is... $80-ish? But how much of that $150 we'll have to spend a month remains to be seen, since we're going to be doing a lot more than our monthly allotted bandwidth. And there's a movie yet to premiere! So, uh, we'll have a better idea once the month is over. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:00, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Assuming we ever end up with more money than we need, David, I suggest you cover yourself in gold. 14 caret gold. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:42, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::If anyone's getting covered in gold, it's McFly and Scout! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:51, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Yeah, but I can actually imagine you as the World's Biggest Man, resplendent in gold and jewels, laughing maniacally. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:28, 20 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::I second McFly and Scout being covered in gold. Also what rate are we paying for extra bandwidth? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 04:42, 20 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ==Consolidate front page?==<br /> [[Image:Newfrontpage062009.jpg|thumb]]<br /> Man, that front banner is huge! Can it be smaller? And when we make it smaller, can we stack up the top-most two boxes next to it like so? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:58, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> : The cropped image shown, of course, is just a placeholder. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:00, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::That looks about as clunky as Wikia's frontpage, IMO.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 16:05, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Well, it's not fine-tuned or anything. Thing is, either that banner's going to be cut down or removed entirely. It's huge, it's bandwidth-wasting, and it pushes all our real content down off the page. What's your choice? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:07, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::I'm probably knee-jerking based on the placement of the boxes. I guess it could be made to work if it's finessed a bit. It's not like we're running a ginormous ad there like Wikia was suggesting.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 16:31, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::I dunno, personally I like this new idea. It reminds me of how our franchise navs look: Logo on the left, linkage on the right. Plus, yeah, unlike Wikia, our content on the right of the logo will actually be... content.<br /> :::::As for logo ideas, why don't we make a few different options where it's the TFWiki.net logo over a pic of a single character? We could have one for Prime, Megatron, Starscream, Jazz, etc. using the &lt;OPTION&gt; thingy. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:37, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::As long as the site-name logo thing itself is HUGE. I really want to make sure the URL is shoved in your face. Branding continues to be important as we war against Wikia for Google prominence. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:40, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::If branding's important, why not change the actual on-every-page logo to use the actual TFWiki.net logo? And put TFWiki.net in the page &amp;lt;title&amp;gt;? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 11:01, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Alternately, each one could be a group shot from a different franchise, with the font altered to match. Play up how many different continuities there are, eh?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 17:00, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> [[Image:Newfrontpage062009b.jpg|thumb]]<br /> ::::::::This image to the right is what I'm now thinking. And it should probably have movie characters predominantly, at least for the next few months. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 17:04, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::I'm inclined to agree with sticking with the movie characters now, considering it's almost two weeks till the US premiere/release. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 17:19, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> That's pretty darn good. Brings a lot more info above the fold, and the layout's pretty clean. The white background is good too, so any other images in the rotation should follow that example.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 17:21, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :How do we make it done? The table markup on the frontpage is foreign to me. I'll upload the new image itself... --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 17:32, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Since Derik doesn't seem to be about yet, I'll have a go with it. Hmm. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:42, 9 June 2009 (EDT)--[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:42, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Actually, we're really going to have to do something like your first example above, with the Continuity/Category tables underneath each other instead of side-by-side, because trying to fit the logo and the two tables all side-by-side looks hideously awful on a 1024px-wide screen. I tried just simply having the smaller logo, the text notices under it, and the two tables on the right, but it looked kind of... eh. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:04, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Mrr. OK, I made ''an'' attempt at tweaking, although I think it's going to need some external CSS tweaks at least, if only to center the Continuities table. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 03:44, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Looks okay, but the jarring thing about it is that the red and blue boxes aren't the same width, though they share a column.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 16:19, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::That's something Derik needs to tweak in the Featured box template and/or external CSS... I can't do it just by editing the page itself.<br /> ::::::Also, yea or nay on the link buttons? It just seemed a little more &quot;Click me!&quot; than the paragraph o' links. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:49, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::I dig 'em. Good design decision, IMO. --[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 16:52, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::Quite aside from anything else... what's the point in liking to tfwiki.info with an image link. It ''just about'' made sense as a text link, but is only going to confuse people who click on the Autobot symbol and end up back where they started. We need to cut down on main page-to-main page links, '''not''' obfuscate where they link to. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 17:30, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::Visual consistency. (And the mouseover text indicated it was an &quot;alternate URL&quot;.) But, I tried tweaking it again. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:52, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::It's fixed! Huzzah!--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 20:46, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::I realized I was just approaching it the wrong way. Eheh. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:15, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> : I'm a little ambivalent towards the &quot;new&quot; logo, just because I think it's a little bland, although I'm sure it's a work in progress. I am all for putting &quot;TFWIKI.net&quot; in the header and all over the fucking place as a branding effort, though. On a slightly related note, I'd consider flipping the &quot;current series&quot; in said box, so ROTF is closer to the center of the page and Animated is on the outside - if we're really trying to bring in ROTF traffic, having that logo front and center is probably a pretty smart idea. I also like the idea of a rotating logo box - maybe we even jigger it so that it links directly to the article for whoever's in it - like the Go! Boxes, but focused entirely on core characters (More Fallen, Movie Optimus, etc., less Irwin Spoon and Dinobots Strike Back). Stick with primary Movie-verse guys for now, and then in a month or so when the hype dies down, we can start to shuffle in some sufficiently advanced and significant articles (making sure that the characters are both important to the fiction and that their articles are nearly, if not entirely complete). [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 11:17, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :That sounds like a good idea. I'm down with that. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 17:00, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> [[Image:Boxswap.jpg|right|350px]]<br /> I has new idea for what module ought to be above the fold, and more ROTF promotiony stuff. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:15, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Sure, I'd go for it. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:26, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> Considering how crowded and text-heavy the front page is, I think the best way to draw attention to the banner is to surround it in as much empty space as possible, [[User:Magnus Maximus/Temp|something like this]], especially as the new banner's white background assimilates the page's whitespace so easily. - [[User:Magnus Maximus|Magnus Maximus]] 03:10, 11 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I'm not sure how that's really different than it is now, other than putting the site notice at the top... which I kind of hate doing, because that pushes all of the content stuff down. The site notice is temporary anyway.<br /> :I was thinking we ought to make the movie stuff more prominent, rather than the continuity/category modules. I was also thinking of placing the banner, site notice, and external website links in one cell instead of two like it is now, which further creates whitespace... I just didn't think of that until after I made the layout change proposal pic.<br /> :I do agree/think maybe we could stand to lose a few modules, though... maybe ditch the Categories module entirely, and consolidate the Holy Grails and Editing Tips somehow. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 03:32, 11 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Oh yeah, you're running a 1024 desktop, aren't you? I changed my res to 1024, and you're right, it really doesn't look much different. But [http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/3349/tfwikitemp1280.jpg this] is how it looks in 1280, and even that little bit of extra space makes a huge difference compared with how it is [http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/4606/tfwikinow1280.jpg now] (in my opinion).<br /> ::I agree about the notice, but I couldn't think where else to put it. Putting it under the banner (thus between the blue and grey boxes) made it seem wedged-in and out of place. Lesser of two evils, you dig?<br /> ::I also agree about making the movie stuff more prominent, but the red and blue boxes are narrower, so they take up less of the horizontal space. I did think that maybe we could change the featured series box so that ROTF is ''on top'' of Animated instead of beside it, and shift that up next to the banner somewhat like it is on my temp page now. That also adapts to 1024 better, I think.<br /> ::And yeah, losing some of the boxes would not be the worst thing in the world. - [[User:Magnus Maximus|Magnus Maximus]] 03:52, 11 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Ehh... my problem with that idea is that, one of the reasons we redesigned the Main Page to begin with is because our greeting was so big that it was pushing useful content down below the fold. This sort of recreates that exact same problem.<br /> :::But, I tried tweaking my Main Page design here: [[User:Jeysie/Main Page]] to give more whitespace. I figure that once the movie's been out for a while and we don't need to pimp it as much, we can replace the Featured Characters box with the Continuities box. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 11:50, 11 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::I was looking at the front page right now and thinking about some things - I'm glad to see most of them are in line with what's already considered. :)<br /> ::That said, I suggest taking TFA out of the featured series box, even if only temporarily, and using the [[:Image:Revenge fallen logo.jpg|logo from the franchise page]]. I feel it's more recognisable as the ROTF logo than the more colourful one we have there, plus we can make it a bit bigger.<br /> ::I also wonder if we should have &quot;Transformers Wiki&quot; written on there somewhere other than the site logo in the sidebar. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 07:11, 11 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> {{-}}<br /> <br /> :::: &quot;TFWIKI.net - THE Transformers Wiki&quot;? [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 07:49, 11 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::I made up a [[:Image:Wikilogo big.psd|PSD template]] of just such a logo this morning. It's layered, so the transparent overlay of the Autobot leaders is optional.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 12:18, 11 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::I definitely prefer the font of the current TFWIKI.NET logo to that one.<br /> ::::::Whatever we ultimately do though, surely we should use the same logo EVERYWHERE, including for the top-left logo, ja? (There's also the recurring thought that we have a G1 Autobot sigil for the top-left logo, but a '''G2''' Autobot sigil for the favicon. I understand that the G2 favicon is unique, which was the main reason we went for it, but if we're thinking about branding...) - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 12:37, 11 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ===Logo===<br /> [[Image:TFwikilogomock.png|right]]<br /> If we want to be movie-centric AND use the TFWiki.net logo extensively for branding reasons, shouldn't we change the Animated-based logo to something more like this? (NB: Quick mock to make a point, '''not''' intended to be actually used, and may clash with the Teletraan on the Monacobook skin). - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 17:30, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I think we do need to keep some visual distinctiveness. If we go too far into the grey look of the movie we end up with understandable confusion concerning its resemblance to [http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/File:Monaco-logo.png this].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 17:59, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Yeah. I'm really really fine with keeping our current page design/color scheme. The Wikia site is really gray, and I'd rather not veer to close to that. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 20:48, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::[Joke Suggestion] How about we make ours ''on fire''? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:27, 11 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::It wouldn't actually be ''that'' hard to do... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 12:08, 11 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ===Featured-series box===<br /> &lt;div style=&quot;float:right&quot;&gt;<br /> {|width=&quot;50%&quot;, <br /> |-<br /> |<br /> {{Featurebox<br /> |Featured Series<br /> |color=#999<br /> |id=featured-series<br /> |content={{User:SanityOrMadness/featured-series}}<br /> |view=User:SanityOrMadness/featured-series<br /> }}<br /> |}&lt;/div&gt;<br /> Should we perhaps rebalance the featured-series box to be more like this? (Yes, I know there's a too-high gap between the two lines to the right of the TFA logo. It didn't preview like that, and I can't see why it's doing that.) - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 14:41, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :That's pretty darn sweet-looking, IMHO. I tried swapping around [[User:Jeysie/Main Page|my take on the Main Page]] to include a slightly modified version of it. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 15:16, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::The way it is on the mainpage right now looks really great. Good density of info above-the-fold.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 15:19, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Or rather on Jeysie's test page, I see now.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 15:21, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Thing about including [[Main Page/featured-characters]] in it like that (which I just edited to increase the header-size to be visually bigger than the character names, and debold the character names themselves) is that if you separate that from above AND below with a line, you visually make it into a franchise by itself. TFA needs a stronger separator from ROTF than the ROTF stuff does within itself. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 15:39, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> &lt;div style=&quot;float:right&quot;&gt;<br /> {|width=&quot;50%&quot;, <br /> |-<br /> |<br /> {{Featurebox<br /> |Featured Series<br /> |color=#999<br /> |id=featured-series<br /> |content={{:Main Page/featured-series}}<br /> |view=Main Page/featured-series<br /> }}<br /> |}&lt;/div&gt;<br /> How about this? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 15:41, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Works for me. I added it to my test Main Page with a few minor formatting tweaks. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:38, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::That looks excellent to me! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 07:23, 13 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Are we doing to do this then? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 11:06, 14 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Was wondering that myself. Any more tweaks or suggestions to add, or should we go with my mockup? --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 13:02, 14 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::The mockup looks pretty solid to me.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 14:11, 14 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::I say go for it! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:46, 14 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Looking again at the featured-characters bit... is Sideswipe really the best choice for that fourth spot on row 1? I already changed Soundwave to Devastator, because the latter has been a LOT more prominent in promos for the movie, but I'm not sure who would be best for a fourth Autobot. Jetfire? Skids &amp; Mudflap? (I'm not even sure if Ironhide is best for the third slot). - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 18:54, 14 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::I was trying to think of a balance between which characters were most prominent and which people were likely to be excited about... we could go for Optimus, Bumblebee, Jetfire, and Skids &amp; Mudflap together in the last spot. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:03, 14 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::Made that change for now, then. I think &quot;prominence&quot; should probably be the main factor, if we want to grab users. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 19:14, 14 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> {{-}}<br /> <br /> ===Featured article===<br /> Now that the featured series box has been sorted... nothing against Kup, but do we have a movie/ROTF article that could possibly take the featured spot at some point between now and the 19th? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 17:57, 14 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :[[The Fallen]] is at Featured Article status. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:07, 14 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::And has been the Featured Article for awhile at A Certain Other Place. I'd rather not mirror them in that respect, personally.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 18:22, 14 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::In that case... I've got no idea. None of the rest are at FA status, and I can't think of which one would be most relevant to pick on for cleanup. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:31, 14 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Surely the three most obvious non-Fallen articles &quot;to pick on for cleanup&quot; are [[Optimus Prime (Movie)]], [[Bumblebee (Movie)]] and [[Sam Witwicky]], ja? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 18:51, 14 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Simmons might be mroe fun. ;)<br /> :::::And Megatron more enlightening, if someone wants to take a whack at his DS-game backstory. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:17, 14 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Looks like Primal Prime is the featured article at that other place, not The Fallen. In fact, it looks like their Fallen article has a cleanup tag, not a featured tag... - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 17:07, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Yeah, someone replaced it a couple of days ago after noticing that their &quot;The Fallen&quot; article wasn't up to scratch. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 17:40, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Any objection to us featuring our superior The Fallen article after all, then? --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:08, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Yeah, on the 24th, the Fallen's page is going up. ESPECIALLY if it's also up at Wikia. Our Fallen page has to supercede theirs, and burying it on the most important week of its life isn't gonna work in our favor. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 18:19, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Hell, if we want to upstage 'em over at Wikia, just put [[Sideswipe (ROTF)|Sideswipe]] as one of the featured characters. I was over there just to see how far the site had gone downhill and it surprised me. They ''don't even have a page for Sideswipe'', it just redirects you to G1 Sideswipe. How sad is that?--[[User:AWT88|AWT88]] 00:13, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :How hard did you look? I wont link it for obvious reasons, but there IS a page for him. - [[User:Cattleprod|Cattleprod]] 00:22, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I think he got messed up by the fact that the Main Page links to &quot;Sideswipe&quot; without the parenthetical, which does indeed redirect to G1 Sideswipe.<br /> ::Having said that, their proper ROTF Sideswipe page is still miserable compared to ours, as is the fact that they got the Main Page linking wrong.<br /> ::Not only that... I also noticed that one of their registered users, while editing their Main Page, managed to change their Twitter link to our Twitter in the process. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 00:44, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Yeah I didn't look very hard (alcohol is a helluva thing), the link was what I went for. Obviously someone over there screwed up. You got a problem with it Cattleprod, kiss my shiny, metal ass.--[[User:AWT88|AWT88]] 01:29, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ===Text Purging===<br /> Next possible round of changes:<br /> I've tweaked [[User:Jeysie/Main Page|my setup]] to remove the Categories module (is it really that useful?) and try to reduce/consolidate the Editing Tips/Holy Grails section.<br /> <br /> I also think we should do a purge of the Series box and stick to just the &quot;major&quot; series/franchises: Generation 1, Generation 2, Beast Wars, Robots in Disguise, Armada, Energon, Cybertron, Animated, the two movies, and Universe. (Possibly also Classics and/or Beast Machines). We have the comprehensive list linked to for anyone who really wants to look at everything. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:52, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :The categories box is useful for two reasons: (1) In and of itself, it's useful. I certainly use it. (2) Without it, your mockup has an empty white space in the right column almost the exact size and shape of the categories box... - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 20:49, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I further note that, [[:Image:Mainpage analytics-06-05-09.png|per Derik's statdump]], it ''gets used''. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 20:53, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Well, if you can suggest other ways to clean up our Main Page, I'm all for it. As it is, I agree with Walky that it's getting to be too much of a sea of text, and that struck me as being one of the least useful of the modules. I guess we could consolidate it somehow with the Continuities module as a sort of &quot;Quick Links&quot; box...<br /> ::We possibly could also get rid of the Editing Tips and Holy Grail modules, but I kind of hate doing that, as it's nice to try to encourage new editors to look at that sort of information. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:02, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Thing is, if I click on the first link in the Categories box because I want to find a particular character, I get a big confusing list of subcategories and... [[Mickey Mouse]]. If I'm a casual user looking for,say, [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]], that doesn't help me much, because then I have to hunt through the subcategories for something that looks like it might lead me there. Yes, it's possible that I might notice the search box and use that instead, but that kinda takes away from the point of having that there in the first place.<br /> ::Though technically I guess I'm complaining about the organisation of the Characters category rather than the box itself. :) --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:20, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Jokes? ==<br /> <br /> It is sometimes very hard to find relevant information on this wiki among all the juvenile humor. It's a little off-putting for a casual user like myself. I know this wiki is about robots who turn into cars, but, c'mon... Maybe tone it down a bit?[[Special:Contributions/71.107.102.102|71.107.102.102]] 16:56, 11 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :No. [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 17:00, 11 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::If you can point out specific instances where the humor is getting in the way of the information, we'll take those under consideration for adjusting, but on the whole we here tend to appreciate the humor. (Including this editor back when she was a newbie/casual reader.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:04, 11 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::As does the overwhelming majority of the readership, it seems. We've gotten praise from all circles for the &quot;do not take it too seriously&quot; approach, even from industry professionals. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 15:22, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Tech Upgrades ==<br /> <br /> Since we're cracking 1.5 million hits per day, I'm running an alternate webserver for testing over on [http://tfwiki.net:8080/ port 8080.] It's *not* cached, so I expect it to be a smidge slower, but I'm also aggressively tweaking it for better content compression and lower memory usage. It probably doesn't matter *now,* but I suspect that as we close in on the movie, and then as the movie is released and the edits go up, we're going to need to squeeze out every last ounce of performance available to us. That said, can you guys try to break it via logging in/out, editing articles, etc.? It's all on the same database, so any changes made there WILL show up here (and vice versa,) but my major concern is that we don't have those damned login session problems and their ilk going forward. Thanks! --[[User:McFly|McFly]] 11:05, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :So... an &quot;editing copy&quot; on one server, and a cached copy on another? Because 99% of TFWiki readers aren't editors? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 11:53, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Let's not overcomplicate it. Test on the new link, the software driving that will replace the existing (more resource intensive) software '''if it's any good.''' At this point, I want to find out if there are any bugs, and that's that. --[[User:McFly|McFly]] 16:38, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I got a 405 error when I tried to upload an image on there, but otherwise it seems to be working great. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 20:41, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ==&quot;Wikia wiki&quot; boilerplate==<br /> Between FortMax, Skyjammer and myself, I believe all instances of &quot;Teletraan-I a wikia wiki&quot; etc have been removed from our webpages. Huzzah! Hopefully that will help our Google stats and suchlike, unless I am mis-remembering how those things work... --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 18:31, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :*thumbsup!* --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 07:28, 13 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Special:Imagelist ==<br /> <br /> Is there any way to strip out the deleted images from [[Special:Imagelist]]? It's kinda useless as things stand. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 20:11, 12 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Anonymous users ==<br /> <br /> Right, the movie goes wide-release in the UK on Friday (I think there may be some previews on Thursday). Thinking about the chaos that may result [and noting that Memory Alpha - much to Wikia's displeasure - disabled ALL editing between the first opening of ''Star Trek'' and its' wide release in the US.]... I think we should give serious consideration to disabling anonymous editing from at least the 18th to the 26th of June.<br /> <br /> Thoughts? Objections? Flames? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 22:26, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I've been advocating that for over a month. It's the same thing we did with Animated: material is blocked for anons until it comes out in America. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 22:51, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::I wasn't talking about blocking specific pages, though (in the way a load of ''Animated'' pages were semi-protected) - just a blanket ban on anonymous editing until ''at least'' the 26th (and I would prefer a week or two beyond that). - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 22:57, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::I'd much prefer if it wasn't a total block. Block anons on all the movie char character articles, etc. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:02, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::Block until a week after the movie's released in the States, namely the chara articles and the film page itself (who knows what poor soul will &quot;unknowingly&quot; put in spoilerific in the synopsis/trivia/notes/what-have-you). It's already difficult enough with the adaptation... --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 23:06, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::::I'm not just worried about spoilers, but about the casual vandalism associated with a sudden &amp; short-lived spike in visitor numbers, which probably wouldn't be limited to the movie pages. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 23:10, 15 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::::If we do so, should we have a site-wide message like Memory Alpha? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 02:08, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::::::At least I know we can use [[MediaWiki:Sitenotice]], I'm not sure whether there is any other similar message. --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 07:37, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::::::Wow, some serious US-centric bias being spouted. If you don't want spoiled, then don't visit. It's now well established internet etiquette to avoid forums about a week before a film's release. Same should apply here. Or..... wait til the DVD is released before unlocking movie edits, just in case you're stuck in Outer Mongolia at the time of the cinema release. Anonymous editing should be blocked, if only to stop the inevitable trolling and vandalism. [[Special:Contributions/82.7.126.27|82.7.126.27]] 14:07, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::Er, no. For one, the 24th is the '''world''' premiere, meaning the vast majority of countries are getting it on that date, not just the US.<br /> :::::::::For two, we need to be able to monitor all edits made to ROTF articles to make sure they're accurate and factual, and we can't do that if most of the wiki's regular editors haven't even seen the movie.<br /> :::::::::So this has less to do with spoilers, and more with the entirely practical aim of being able to keep tabs on all ROTF edits effectively. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:19, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::Gosh, thanks, I'll take your advice under consideration.... wait, no, I really won't. If you have a problem with &quot;U.S.-centric bias,&quot; you are in the wrong place: this is openly stated as a U.S.-centric wiki. We blocked anonymous edits to the new ''Animated'' episodes that for some damnfool reason were aired first in Dubai, until they were uploaded online for everyone to see. Our U.S.-based editors shouldn't have to stop working on a website that, to a large extent, ''they created'', just out of fear that some collection of I.P. numbers will thoughtlessly spoil the movie for them. Better to just anon-protect all the movie-related pages until after all the major markets have had their premieres. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 15:12, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> My vote is for blocking all anons from the movie-related pages for at least one week after the world premier, maybe two. I would not be opposed to a site-wide block, however. I really have no interest in cleaning up after a flood of one-timers and trolls and crap. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 15:23, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Hey, I'm all for the lockage. But to stop the wave of trolls that will come. Not because Americans seem to think they have the &lt;insert deity&gt;-given right to subjugate the free speech of others who have the rare opportuity to experience something before the Americans do. That hardly ever happens. America gets everything first; cars, movies, fat, gadgets, first dibs on invasion etc. Thankfully they don't get irony first.[[Special:Contributions/82.7.126.27|82.7.126.27]] 15:38, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Did you even read the post where I pointed out the vast majority of TF fans, both US and non-US, won't be seeing the movie before the 24th, because the vast majority of countries in general aren't getting it until the 24th?<br /> :::Basically, all TF fans not in the UK and Japan aren't going to be getting to see the movie before the 24th. It's not as if we're making editing wait because everyone else is getting the movie early and the US is the only country that isn't.<br /> :::All of our Canadian, Australian, non-UK European, non-Japan Asian, etc. editors are likely equally glad we're waiting. Maybe you should stop and actually think before you go off spouting jerkass strawman accusations. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 15:46, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::Are you ''intentionally'' aiming for self-parody, or did you actually seriously just try to frame your potentially being locked out of our privately-run, privately-financed web site about giant alien space robots for a few days as a ''freedom of speech'' issue? 'Cause that right there is some serious comedy gold, sir. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 15:54, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::I'm afraid there are no Internet Oscars for maudlin self-victimization, otherwise you'd be a shoo-in. Here we only talk about Transformers. You are free to start doing that any old time. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 15:55, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Hahaha, did he just equate being able to post to a wiki about cartoon robots for a few days... to the right to free speech? Man, and I thought education was bad over HERE! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 21:03, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ===One derailment later...===<br /> So, then, back on the subject... I still think we should do it. Mr Anon isn't making me think less of it as an idea. And yes, a [[MediaWiki:Sitenotice]] would be essential. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:33, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :So, we're all for blocking anons for a week after the 24th? --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 00:31, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::They're gonna get pissy, but sounds good to me. But what about the editors who can't log in, is that still a problem?--[[User:AWT88|AWT88]] 09:52, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Most likely. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 12:48, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Which editors who can't log in? The problem with IE users not being able to log in was fixed when McFly fixed all the other problems on the site. I haven't heard of any reports of anyone else having the problem... --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:32, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::It's not a case of being technically unable to log in. Its a case of NOT DESIRING to log in because people are at work or at school or where there are shared computers. When I was at school, I certainly didn't want to log in, and a few other people felt the same way. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:09, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Ah! Of course. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 04:46, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == &quot;Transformers Comic&quot; ==<br /> <br /> Okay, I've got three issues at present with the titling treatment of the Titan Movie comics:<br /> #Ambiguity - if you look at, say, [[Transformers Comic issue 9]], there's ''at least'' three Transformers #9s with no subtitle - [[DIS-Integrated Circuits!|Marvel G1 US #9]], [[Man of Iron!|Marvel G1 UK #9]], and [[Transformers Comic issue 9|Titan Movie #9]]; and currently the only one at &quot;Transformers Comic issue 9&quot; is the Titan Movie issue<br /> #DO we go by issue, or by story? - We're all over the shop on this:<br /> #*The Marvel US issues are all at the story titles, but these pages incorporate any &quot;Transformers Universe&quot; bio material<br /> #*The Marvel UK issues almost all have multiple stories or parts of stories, and I think there may even be some issues with multiple UK-originated/non-reprint stories, and each story is at its' own page, ''which incorporates multiple issues'' (e.g., [[Time Wars]]), leaving aside editorial and other non-story material.<br /> #*The Marvel G2 issues almost all have backups, sometimes nominal, sometimes not, and they're all at the title of the lead/non-&quot;Tales of Earth&quot; story (e.g. [[New Dawn]]).<br /> #*The ''first'' Panini Armada issue is at the story title ([[First Encounter!]]), while the ''rest'' are at &quot;Panini Armada issue X&quot; (e.g., [[Panini Armada issue 2]]).<br /> #*The IDW issues are at the issue title even where the issue is split into multiple, titled. stories (e.g. [[The Arrival issue 4]])<br /> #The actual title of the Titan Movie issues - Titan Movie v1 #22-25 are actually titled ''Transformers: Universe'' #22-25 (mostly in reflection of it absorbing the cancelled ''Animated'' comic), but are still at &quot;Transformers Comic issue XX&quot;; while v2, titled ''Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen'' #XX, is at the truly bizarre &quot;Transformers Comic 2.XX&quot;. Really, just because the letters page said 2.x once, rather than &quot;Revenge of the Fallen (Titan) issue X&quot;, which is what's on the cover?<br /> What are we doing with this? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:17, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :As I've said before, I do NOT favor consistency here. A one-size-fits-all approach will inevitably fail to encompass the widely variable situations with various comic series.<br /> :The Marvel US book are under the story titles because, for all intents and purposes, the story and the issue are one and the same. Likewise for most of Dreamwave's G1 run. Sure, we could move 'em all to &quot;The Transformers issue 2 (Marvel US)&quot;, but what do we ''gain''? How is this any better than &quot;Power Play!&quot;? What is the benefit? Mere consistency is insufficient reason.<br /> :This is much, much less true with the UK comic, where stories were broken into two and even three parts, and multiple stories shared page space in the same issue. Now, I've heard rumblings to the effect that each UK issue should have its own page, and there's merit to that, insofar as each issue's contents are a mixed bag - minicomics, letters pages, and pieces and parts of various stories. It might make sense to have a page for each issue, basically a list of its contents, with ''See main article'' links to the entire story -- so, say, UK #88, #89, #90, or whatever, all link to a single page for &quot;Target: 2006&quot;.<br /> :With G2, it absolutely makes complete sense to combine the two stories. The &quot;backup&quot; strips are such in name only; they are absolutely integral to the main strip, and neither can be read without the other. Separating &quot;Tales of Earth&quot; bits into their own pages is only going to confuse things and make them ''less informative''. Furthermore, the main strip clearly ''is'' the MAIN strip. It makes sense to cover the whole story under that strip's title. Our current system for G2 acknowledges this, while still distinguishing between the contents of each section. The alternative is to move each page to &quot;Generation 2 issue 2&quot; or whatever... and I don't see what we gain by doing this. <br /> :The Titan comics should be moved to whatever the cover and indicia call them. If they're just ''Transformers'' or something equally generic, well, that's what parenthetical disambigs are for. Likewise for the ROTF reboot. A simple (Titan) should cover the bases well enough, yes?<br /> :A recent trend has been issues with 2 discreet stories, such as the ''Animated'' books you mention. I've long been in favor of having a single page for the ''issue'' for such books, with ''See main article'' links to the individual stories within them - so &quot;Animated: The Arrival issue 2&quot; would be a list of stuff, with two prominent links within to pages about the two stories it contains. Still, I can understand if people see that as unnecessarily messy -- so long as they can agree that, since the stories are pretty much co-equal, it would make no sense at all to give one or the other naming precedence.<br /> :So, that's my take. Case-by-case basis FTW, baby. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 21:43, 16 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Also, to address item #1 specifically... if we do stick with &quot;Transformers&quot; as the title, there should be a disambig note for Transformers at the top. Unless &quot;Comic&quot; is in the title, it shouldn't be in there. I'm thinking the article names should be &quot;Transformers issue 1 (Titan)&quot;, etc., with the parenthetical at the end of the page title, rather than the middle.<br /> :These books generally have stories from different continuities, don't they? That's a point in favor of separating the story content out from the containing issue. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 11:19, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Personally I've been using &quot;Comic issue&quot; because that's what the pages were before I started adding to the wikli, and &quot;issue 2.&quot; stuck with the former way of numbering things (and was easier to type...). If naming them after the title (so from #22 it's Transformers Universe or Transformers ROTF etc) would make more sense, I'd be happy to go with that. <br /> ::As for whether or not to have specific issue or story pages, I'd say if we're going to have individual pages for each issue of IDW and Dreamwave miniseries (not to mention multi-parters in the cartoons), it wouldn't make sense not to for Titan. There's already a precedent that if we do this for post-Marvel comics. -- [[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] 20:25, 19 June 2009 (GMT)<br /> <br /> == Non-movie (Movie) characters vs. movie (ROTF) characters with the same name ==<br /> <br /> Anyone else think we should, at the very least, have {{tl|disambig2}}s on pages like [[Jetfire (Movie)]] and [[Mudflap (Movie)]] to the ROTF characters of the same name? Yes, I realise users could go via the disambig page, but I see it as making things simpler &amp; easier for newbies, and in that scenario one click is always better than two. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 22:20, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I think I'd cautiously support adding a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{disambig2}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; for characters of the same name within the same continuity if there seems like a good chance for confusion. I'd oppose imposing it as an across-the-board standard though. (You're nto suggesting that though.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:23, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I oppose it on the principle that multiple disambig templates on a page is ugly. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 22:47, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Ugly, and you can get to where you need to go through the disambig. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 22:48, 17 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Here's the thing though - '''is it intiutive''' for a complete newbie, who came in via ROTF, to see &quot;Optimus Prime (Movie)&quot;, &quot;Bumblebee (Movie)&quot; and &quot;Megatron (Movie)&quot; '''and not immediately conclude''' that the Jetfire article will be at &quot;Jetfire (Movie)&quot;, rather than some incredibly obscure card-puzzle that even we don't have a final picture for?<br /> :::::Hell, even take it a step up from &quot;complete newbie&quot; to someone who sat through Beast Wars/Machines or Armada/Energon/Cybertron, where characters changed bodies between series so that they had very little resemblance to their prior selves (in the UT's case, without any explanation). Those guys might assume that &quot;Mudflap (Movie)&quot; *is* Skids' twin even if he bears no resemblance to him. And it was a guy making that exact mistake and getting reverted by you last night that caused me to post this.<br /> :::::I really think a BIG, prominent link DIRECTLY from the obscure (Movie) character to the prominent (ROTF) character is required. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 20:26, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::As long as there's a link to the same-universe namesake in the intro, I see no need for an additional disambig template. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 01:21, 18 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::And on that note, I added just such a line for [[Mudflap (Movie)]]. It seemed especially appropriate for him, since he's an Autobot wannabe who precedes an actual Autobot of the same name. That having been said, though, I don't dislike the [[:Template:disambigrotf]] template you cooked up, Sanity. It's a little unwieldy, but it's probably as succinct as such a thing could ever be. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 00:46, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::I did the same for Jolt, who had the wal-mart version for the first movie and it was deleted... I was told &quot;that's what disambig is for.&quot; [[User:Cliffjumper prime|Cliffjumper prime]] 01:12, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Well, I'm generally in favor of intro-links because they allow for a bit more elaboration. If it's just a disambig, then we're presenting the characters as though they are definitively separate individuals with no connection to each other, even though in most cases there's just too little evidence to say one way or t'other. The absence of information is, itself, noteworthy. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 02:57, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::I favour user-friendliness over concerns about how ugly or pretty it makes things look. I think those of you arguing about how ugly it makes things look and disambig3 doing the job are working under the assumption readers are fairly knowledgeable about how this wiki operates. I find that attitude to be rather unhelpful and presumptive. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:13, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::Indeed. I still have a problem with not redirecting [[Optimus Prime (Energon)]]-&gt;[[Optimus Prime (Armada)]], [[Optimus Primal (BW)]]-&gt;[[Optimus Primal]], [[Optimus Prime (ROTF)]]-&gt;[[Optimus Prime (Movie)]], etc. It seems almost ''wilfully'' inconsistent to not have an equivalent parenthetical available for every character in a series to aid in newbies' browsing &amp; editing. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 09:01, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::I don't like the expanded ROTF disambig box. I like how Charles RB did it on the [[Sideswipe (Movie)]] page. A little tack-on to the continuity note. Although in Sideswipe's case I think the pages could actually be merged. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 10:11, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::As opposed to assuming that every reader is retarded and can't figure out [[Jetfire (Movie)]] is not the same character as [[Jetfire (ROTF)]]? [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 13:43, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::Go look at pictures of the UT Hot Shots and get back to us (NB: First example which leapt to mind, but by no means the only one).<br /> ::::::::::It's not as if there isn't precedent for stuff without any real resemblance to each other to be randomly declared the &quot;same character&quot; in Transformers. Especially since &quot;Jetfire (Movie)&quot; is no character at all - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 14:32, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::::::::Why on god's green earth would someone look at a page called &quot;Jetfire (Movie)&quot; and assume that they have NOT found Jetfire from the live-action movie series? Why would the expected, logical, inevitable response be, hey, there must be another guy by the exact same name in the movie series! ? That's like, the exact opposite of retarded. It's unretarded. It's ''logical''. The truth of the matter, that there's two guys in the same continuity with the exact same name, doesn't make a damn lick of sense.<br /> ::::::::::Assumption of prior knowledge is a rampant problem in this fandom. Around here we're supposed to be smarter than that, though! We should be able to step back from our microscopic inspection of things and say, &quot;Hey, this whole deal really is retarded. Let's clarify it.&quot; Thus I am ''heavily'' in favor of liberal disambiguation. Not only does it make things clearer for the reader, it also increases the chances of the reader working their way into the obscure backwaters of the site -- which is what we want, is it not? If it makes the page look &quot;ugly&quot;, well, that's OUR problem, isn't it? Why should the reader experience suffer because of a shortcoming on our end? Maybe we need to expand our diambiguation template options, instead of rejecting the notion on aesthetic grounds. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 16:14, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::::I'd agree with not keeping this in the disambig. Though I see pages that had it outside the disambig section have been edited, so I presume it's now the policy to keep the information there? -- [[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]] 00:56, 20 June 2009 (GMT)<br /> :::::::::::Well said. I agree without reservation.<br /> :::::::::::And on that note, I'd not only like to see more liberal redirecting (really, if &quot;Optimus Prime&quot; appears in ''Energon'' there is no way on Xal's green Earth there shouldn't be a valid [[Optimus Prime (Energon)]] page, even if it's just a redirect), but ALSO a general desnarking of mainpics (not captions, the ''actual pictures'' themselves) - stuff like the &quot;self portrait&quot; on [[Grimlock (G1)]] or the Cyber-Slammers pic on [[Brawl (Movie)]] (why... I mean WHY?!) only - and I quote from {{tl|desnark}} - &quot;interfer[es] with the delivery of information on th[e] page.&quot; Have the pics on the page, sure, but NOT as a mainpic. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 17:49, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::::That Cyber-Slammers pic will be removed over my fucking dead body. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 17:57, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::::Why?<br /> :::::::::::::No, really, why? The jokiness is stated, in an official policy, as being '''all right as long as it doesn't replace something more useful'''. The whole point of a main pic is that it's the ur-version of a character, the single most representative version. If you need a pic of the character to show off how it would look in most people's minds, it would be a strong candidate if not a shoe-in.<br /> :::::::::::::Other than you, WHO THE HELL WOULD THINK OF THE CYBER-SLAMMER FIRST?! - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 18:22, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::::::I don't see why the Cyber-Slammer image is anti-information. It's a perfectly good image of Brawl/Devastator! Just not one that you particularly like. And it's not just me. It's not like I put the image there! The only people I've ever seen speak out against the image are you and random anons. So there. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 19:24, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::::::::::The only problem I see with spare diambigs like &quot;Optimus Prime (Energon)&quot; is that if you're typing in &quot;Optimus Pr&quot; into the Search box, a list of &quot;Optimus Pr*&quot; pages is gonna come up. It's already a long list, limited by our software to 8 results. With the extra disambigs, potentially useful results might scroll off the list entirely.<br /> ::::::::::::As for the images... eh. We're not *that* rampant with the jokey images. More importantly, you can scroll down Grimlock's page and quickly see lots of pictures of him across various media. The main pic isn't significantly inhibiting the flow of information, IMO. For Brawl... we *could* use a few more full-body shots of him near the top of the page, last time I checked at least. -- [[Special:Contributions/99.151.96.72|99.151.96.72]] 18:11, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::::Redirects are automatically flagged in several ways by the software - is there really no way to either exclude them from the search suggestions, or (preferably) just throw them to the bottom of the pile?<br /> ::::::::::::::Yes, but every time I've suggested doing ''just that'' instead of the zealous (overzealous, IMO) purging of redirects, someone comes up with like 3 examples where &quot;we ''really'' want this redirect to show up.&quot; And those 3 examples somehow outweigh the 3000 links you ''don't'' want in the search suggestion box. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:26, 19 June 2009 (EDT) <br /> :::::::::::::And no, we're not &quot;that rampant&quot; - all the more reason that we shouldn't be doing it at all. Like I say, the whole point of a main pic is to show the single most identifable version of the character in one shot. The two examples I mentioned (I'm sure I could find more, but those are the two which stick in my head) are completely the opposite - a kid's-scrawl &quot;self-portrait&quot; from an obscure 5-page B&amp;W Marvel UK backup, and a version of a character that barely resembles the movie/fiction model. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 18:22, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::::::WHERE WILL SOMEONE FIND A PICTURE OF GRIMLOCK IF NOT AT THE TOP OF THE TFWIKI ARTICLE?! -[[User:LV|LV]] 20:09, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::::I withdraw my &quot;ugly&quot; comment now that we have the disambiguations melded into a single table. I just didn't want a tower of them. I see no reason for not doing it this way we're doing it now. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:29, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == &quot;Wanted Pages&quot; clean-up ==<br /> <br /> The Wanted Pages list is cluttered with links to pages that... aren't wanted at all. There's a big chunk of that list that are actually just links from discussions, along the lines of: &quot;I don't know if this is the right name for this page. How about we name it 'Alternate name 1' or 'Alternate name 2'?&quot;. There are also quite a few links that come from userpages, that do nothing but clutter up the list; &quot;My favourite tv shows beside transformers are 'Beavis and Butthead' and 'Batman'.&quot;<br /> <br /> All these unnecessary links make the Wanted Pages hard to navigate through at times... Creating pages that appear on that list is the main way I contribute to this wiki, but it's getting harder to do so when half the links I find there aren't necessary. However, it felt quite rude to just go into someone's userpage and edit what they had written about themselves, or change other people's words in a discussion. Would it be ok to actually go through these pages and tweak them a bit? Like just killing the links themselves? Or for something along the lines of the user's page, just changing the links to an outside site, such as Wikipedia?<br /> <br /> Additionally, it'd be nice to encourage people not to create random links like this all the time... I'm sure if you put quotation marks around your suggested link name, people will understand thats a link you're suggesting, you don't actually have to create a link that goes nowhere. Any opinions? --[[User:Ascendron|Ascendron]] 14:50, 20 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :[[User:Bluestreak7|Bluestreak7]]'s been doing this sort of thing already, so I don't see why it'd be a big deal.<br /> :If you're worried about userpages, and you see the person's still an active editor after checking their contributions, you can always just leave them a quickie note about the matter on their talk page. (If the person ''hasn't'' edited in a long time, I'd say just go for the change yourself.)<br /> :Plus, there's no particular reason why you'd need to actually change a person's words: you can either just remove the link, or create a piped link to the correct link, whichever is more appropriate.<br /> :Also useful would be going through and fixing any links that are spelling errors or alternate ways of linking to an already existing page or already &quot;wanted&quot; page. I try to do that myself from time to time, but they're not always easy to catch, especially if they're for people/things I'm not familiar with. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 15:22, 20 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Heh, I had no idea that my pet project had got any notice. One thing I have noticed is there is a good percentage of &quot;wanted pages&quot; that come from talk pages. Many times when editors are figuring out how to name the particular page they actually wiki-link to multiple choices. It would be nice just to put them in quotes or such. I think we'll all understand what it means when discussing possible titles. I'm hesitant in modifying these talk pages until we come up with some sort of standard. However, I'm not hesitant in removing dead links from user pages. Many users are now unregistered since the bookworm crash. All those are fair game in my opinion to remove any links. In the past few weeks we've gone from more at least 4866 to less than 4500. That's a good start. --[[User:Bluestreak7|Bluestreak7]] 22:32, 24 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Doctor Braxis/Doctor B ==<br /> <br /> [[Withered Hope]] has a redlink for the Go-Bots Dr. Braxis character, but apparently he is only identified in the actual story as &quot;Dr. B.&quot; Two questions:<br /> <br /> 1) If I start the article, should it be as &quot;Doctor Braxis&quot; (what we know is his real name, and what the redlink already points to) or &quot;Doctor B&quot; (which, technically, is all he's called in TF fiction)? (such as Nick Fury vs. 'Nicholas')<br /> <br /> 2) How much non-TF info on the doc would be appropriate to include in said article? Especially as there's no GoBots wiki as there is for, say, Marvel, Star Wars, or Godzilla that I could provide an external link for...<br /> <br /> I know that when it comes to crossover stuff, most every Wiki has their own policy on handling it, so I just wanted to check. Thanks in advance! [[User:Thanos6|Thanos6]] 04:54, 21 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I'd create it at &quot;Doctor B&quot;. Then give the &quot;Fiction&quot; section that explains his role in Withered Hope. Then a &quot;Trivia&quot; or &quot;Real world' or some such section that explains &quot;This guy is Doctor Braxis, he was a bad guy from Go-Bots.&quot; I'd say err on the side of too much info and then we can edit it down. [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 09:09, 21 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Proposal: Reorganizing movie character pages? ==<br /> <br /> The general arrangement of the fiction sections for the movie character pages has... not ''annoyed'' me, per se, but made the back of my brain itch for a little while now. They take an approach of ''trying'' to present all the events that happen to a character in a chronological order, which is a laudible goal, and an approach taken in many, if not ''most'' other pages of the wiki, and one that in those other situations, I generally advocate. However, becuase there are so many different pieces of ancillary media for the movie, which take place before, during, after and ''aaaalll'' around the movie and ''each other'', they're getting very muddled. The &quot;Titan&quot; seciton is often placed before the section for the first movie, since it begins in the past... but then has to summarize events, including its alternate timeline, which take place ''after'' the movie... before the movie's event have been related in the article. You follow me? Further, I feel that this approach tends to create the appearance of one cohesive timeline, and we all know that's just not true - there are innumerable discrepancies between the movie and the ancillary media, and - avoiding any spoilers - ROTF is one of the worst examples of key parts of the movie's backstory conflicting ''wildly'' with what the ancillary media has said. So, I think that a more divisive, clinical approach is necessary, and I've quickly knocked up [[User:Chris_McFeely/ROTF_proposal|this]].<br /> <br /> I think that the movies should be the first thing on the page, just there, on their own. They are the core of this universe and its characters - they are the pieces of fiction around which ''all'' the others are written. Everything takes the movies as its starting point and works backwards or forwards from there. Making them the first thing on the pages frees us up to more freely explore past and future depicted in other media. Also, I'm in favour of just making sub-sections for &quot;IDW continuity&quot; (again, the discrepancy between what the IDW comics have shown and what is actually in the ROTF movie is prompting this line of thought), and describing the eventts of all of its comics in one, long section, rather than splitting in two like we had it before, is preferable. As a follow-on from this, Titan gets its own section, with a sub-section (a la &quot;Marvel UK future timelines&quot;) for its alt. universe, rather than just a note, making the division between the stories a lot clearer. Also, it removes the need for odd notes like the one on Scorponok's page which has to mention that he only dies in the Titan comics and nowhere else - now, it should be obvious, because the continuity has been isolated instead of interspersed with all the others. The prequel novels are about the only thing I'm not sure on - I haven't actually read them, so I don't feel capable of making a decision, and have just put them under their own heading like this for now (after the movie, but before the comics since surely, more ordinary people on the street have read the books than the comics?). Could they potentially just be put under the &quot;Movies&quot; header, around the movies themselves, or do they feature any major conflicts?<br /> <br /> Right, then. Thoughts? - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 09:06, 21 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I agree. How does Wookiepedia arrange all that ancilliary stuff I wonder? [[User:Drmick|Drmick]] 09:15, 21 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::As the person who has been doing the most work on the movie articles on this wiki: I am not really enthused with the idea of rearranging the articles and re-learning how to deal with them. A few months ago, I determined the layout of the fiction sections (with the exception of the Titan stuff) on the assumption it is in one rough continuity (continuity errors and contradictions and all), and nobody objected, probably because nobody cared very much about movie fiction at the time. In my mind, if you ignore the Titan section, from start to finish, it reads reasonably well. May I suggest we just fence off Furman's Crackpot Titan Continuity? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 10:11, 21 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::FWIW, I don't think the IDW Prequel comics from the first movie are supposed to be in-continuity with RoS/Destiny. (Or at least, I don't think Mowry used them as references, just the scripts for the movies, so if it all matches up it's kind of coincidental.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 10:28, 21 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::IDW has stumbled over its own prequel material continuity twice, which is not encouraging. The Planetfall story contradicted the first prequel which established the Decepticons landing in America, and then The Reign of Starscream contradicted Planetfall by showing Starscream's crew getting to Mars via starship, not by [[transition form]]. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 10:37, 21 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::I remember at some point saying, verrrrrry explicitly, that there ''will'' be errors and contradictions and inconsistencies and multiple timelines in the Movie fiction -- I believe it was back when someone or other was arguing in favor of integrating ''Reign of Starscream'' et. al into the main movie summaries, and italicizing them like we do with the UK comics. It seemed like a bad idea then. Sounds like a bad idea now. Sorry if my protestations weren't fervent enough to register at the time.<br /> ::::In general, our approach is and should be to divide up a character's appearances by media source. There are exceptions to this rule (UK comics, Animated comics), but they should always be approached with caution. I don't think the multi-timeline-spawning film series is a good candidate for this approach. Derrick Wyatt knew what was going on with ''Animated'', but I doubt that Michael Bay really gives a crap about ''Alliance'' or whatever else. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 10:44, 21 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::That's not really the issue, though, Rob. We already ''do'' have the fiction broken up by media source - I'm just advocating a rearrangement of the ''order'' in which that fiction is laid out in articles, to make the individual, splintering &quot;continuities&quot; a bit more individual. Really, I'm not expecting a conclusion right away - I'm raising this now so we can get a bit of discussion going before ROTF hits in the US. Because I gotta say, I think the sheer failure of the IDW ROTF prequel stuff to line up with ''any'' of the backstory in the film will help convince folks that this is a good reason to go down this road, but it will require you Yanks (and Aussies!) to see the film to decide first! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 10:51, 21 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::It boils down to... when reading RoS and Destiny, you're supposed to treat the movies as part of those comics' timeline, as they're intended to fit, not be deliberately AU like the Titan stories apparently are. Hasbro had certain elements be changed because they would clash with the movies, and so on, so there was at least ''some'' attempt to make it somehow fit together. The Movies are an integral part of the RoS/Destiny continuity.<br /> ::::::However, apparently the converse isn't necessarily true: the movies may not treat RoS/Destiny as part of ''their'' timeline.<br /> ::::::So... *shrug* Structure that as you will. And the IDW Prequel comics are off doing their own equally separate thing regardless. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 11:00, 21 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Don't forget about prequel novels. I prefer FFN's proposal but I would definitely mix in [[The Veiled Threat]] fiction as happening near the end of Alliance. IDW+films seem to make up the backbone of the continuity, but maybe that isn't fair to the Titan comic. To be honest, from what I've heard, I'm prepared to treat the ROTF film as a micro-continuity, at least for my own fanon purposes. The adaptations seem to match the prequel material fairly well. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 11:43, 21 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Something to consider - the fact that The Veiled Threat, a novel from a writer(s) and a publisher who has nothing to do with IDW Publishing has taken pains to ensure it fits (more or less) within the continuity of The Reign of Starscream and Alliance suggest that somebody, somewhere, most likely Hasbro, wants us to consider the prequel material (excluding Furman's Alternate Universe stuff) as one single continuity, and to address contradictions and continuity errors as we come across them. That's my view of the movie articles and how we should do them. Without the prequel stuff, you'd just get several fenced off sections where &quot;Stuff just happens&quot;, and that's why off-screen material exists, to explain or expand upon things that cannot fit into the movie or episode because they're too complex or too geeky for the audience. This wiki exists to tell people what happened off screen or why Bay's movies are so incoherent, and the way I see it, if we fence off Furman's UK alt-universe stuff, it more or less fits in together, and you get a decent story out of it. Sorry to ramble. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 23:56, 21 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Here's the simple answer-- document the movie as it's own thing, and in the IDW section, use the IDW movie adaption as a stand-in for the movie, with all the retcons, mucked-up timelines, etc. Best of both worlds. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:41, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I meant leaving the damn articles as they are, except for fencing off Furman's stuff. I'm not about to track down those adaptation comics to (essentially) tell an abbreviated version of the same story already detailed in the same articles. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 06:33, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Representing the tfwiki at an IMAX premiere? ==<br /> <br /> I've managed to get myself into an IMAX premiere or screening of Revenge of the Fallen tonight, and the promotors/Hasbro want to do a photo op/press thing with aussie fans. Should I like, hold up a sign that says &quot;TFWIKI.NET THE TRANSFORMERS WIKI&quot;? Or would that bring down unnecessary official scrutiny on us? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 22:19, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Yeah, thanks for your advice, guys :/--[[User:FFN|FFN]] 23:01, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Do you have a &quot;decaf&quot; setting? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 23:18, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Well the promoter let us know at the '''''very last minute''''' so plans are rushed. I have to time manage this thing with the free time of other people I am probably going with. Because frankly, the only reason I'd want to do the photo thing for the promoter is to represent the wiki, and if I was given the go ahead by you, I would have endeavoured to turn up if at all possible. I hope you at least appreciated that dedication to the wiki. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 23:25, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Oh, and another thing - we were invited due to our association with Ozformers, but instead of promoting Ozformers, I want to promote the tfwiki. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 23:27, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Guess you know where your bread is buttered! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 23:34, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Hell, give of us a break, it hasn't even been an hour. I say do it, give us some representation, it might help us in the Google rankings and get us past the craptastic Wikia.--[[User:AWT88|AWT88]] 23:05, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Not good enough, Jan. *folds arms* --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 23:14, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Doesn't Hasbro kind of know about us already, seeing as how they answer questions from us every other month and their licensees send us pics and stuff sometimes? It's not like they're not scrutinizing us already if they're gonna. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:10, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Now I gotta make a sign... --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 23:14, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Try the Universal Greeting Dance. They'll reciprocate. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:32, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Or they'll try to eat you! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 23:33, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Is our motto &quot;Transformers is Serious Business&quot;? Or am I associating Shortpacked!'s motto? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 23:44, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::&quot;Toys are serious business&quot; is a Shortpacked! thing. I don't think the Wiki has a motto. The one on the Twitter feed is &quot;We know more about Transformers than you.&quot; --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 23:51, 22 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::That sounds a bit confrontational, though, like people may not realise we aren't being aggressive or jerkish. Hasbro AU and Eric Siebenaler thought it was funny when I interrupted somebody complaining about Robot Heroes and Mighty Muggs by saying &quot;Transformers is Serious Business&quot;. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 00:08, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::Considering how many TF creators use us as a reference as of late, I feel like it ought to be &quot;We know about Transformers so you don't have to.&quot;<br /> :::::::::But I have to agree that something like &quot;Transformers is serious business, yo.&quot; would make for an amusing sign blurb. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 00:37, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::&quot;Transformers are serious business&quot; is thrown around as a joke a lot, but I don't think it's actually our motto.<br /> ::::::::*TFWiki.net: We know more about Transformers than you want to.<br /> ::::::::*TFWiki.net: Cooler than Star Trek, not as cool as Star Wars<br /> ::::::::*TFWiki.net: Great, there go 4 hours of my life<br /> ::::::::*TFWiki.net: Nerdgasm Evolved<br /> ::::::::*TFWiki.net&lt;sup&gt;[1]&lt;/sup&gt;<br /> :::::::::[1] amusing footnote<br /> ::::::::*Transformerology: Finally, a degree you can use in real life.<br /> ::::::::*TFWiki.net: serious intellectual debate about transforming space robots<br /> ::::::::*TFWiki.net: Disambiguiously Gay<br /> ::::::::*TFWiki.net: A Gold Standard of Geekdom<br /> ::::::::*TFWiki.net: Amazing and Kinda Scary<br /> ::::::::-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:44, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::I've chosen the serious intellectual debate and we know more about TFs than you want to, as it fits my sense of humour. I'd do more signs, but I am the only TFWiki guy there, so two signs is already pushing it, and there's every chance they'll just crop the sign out or tell me to put it away. Cheers, guys. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 00:58, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::Incidentally, I ''love'' &quot;serious intellectual debate about transforming space robots.&quot; Also:<br /> ::::::::::* &quot;TFWiki.net: Remember that one guy? He was so cool!&quot;<br /> ::::::::::* &quot;TFWiki.net: We remember who Groundshaker was, so you don't have to.&quot; (alternately: &quot;TFWiki.net: Who the hell is ''that''!?&quot;)<br /> ::::::::::* &quot;TFWiki.net: Come for the information, stay for the inevitable flamewar about funny captions.&quot;<br /> ::::::::::* &quot;TFWiki.net: Unhealthily fixated since 2006.&quot;<br /> ::::::::::* &quot;TFWiki.net: Because you're just ''dying'' to know what they called Thundercracker in Hungary.&quot; [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 07:41, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::I just got back. I have no idea if the sign got into pics or not. However, I am pleased this discussion spurred creative ideas in potential official slogans for the wiki. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 09:16, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::::&quot;Come for the information, stay for the funny.&quot; has a certain ring to it. As does &quot;We remember who Groundshaker was, so you don't have to.&quot; Or &quot;Revering and ruining your childhood all in one website.&quot; --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 11:33, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ==Meanwhile, in other promotional exploits...==<br /> I was interviewed this morning for the [http://www.fayobserver.com/ Fayettesville Observer]. Soon North Carolina will know alllll about Shortpacked!, our wiki, and Starscream's French-Canadian name. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:11, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Totally read that as &quot;Fattysville&quot;. Home of the BBQ Double Stackticon! - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 13:21, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Ridiculous Transformers ==<br /> <br /> The StreetLevel blog recently posted a list of the [http://www.streetlevel.com/2009/06/04/the-top-10-most-ridiculous-transformers-ever/ Top 10 Most Ridiculous Transformers, Ever].<br /> <br /> It is very dumb. I want to counter with a ''better'' list.<br /> <br /> Anyone have any suggestions? Legion and Pepsi Convoy are already a lock. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:16, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> : It hurts my braaaaaaaaain. (And don't forget there's a Megatron that transforms into a shoe.) --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:18, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :: And [[Esmeral]]. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:21, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Piano Transformer guy?<br /> :::Is this just for ridiculous transformations? Are there any in-universe guys who are ridiculous?<br /> :::...I'm ''so'' putting Drift on this list. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:23, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Don't be that guy, man. You might as well start adding Nightscream and Wheelie. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:25, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::They have redeeming features. Drift is Poochie. &quot;Designed-by-committie awesome&quot; ''always'' looks ridiculous. He's not just a traitor or a samurai-- he's an albino-japanese-streetracer-taciturn-former-Decepticon-honorbound-samurai-ninja.<br /> :::::So then I hope you're putting Animated Prowl on that list, too! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 14:28, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Much less ridiculous than Drift. I am adding [[Break]] though. There are more ridiculous transformers, but &quot;Penguin Antagonist Naruto&quot; is easy to shorthand. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:51, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::I'll give him a fair shake and note he hasn't been that annoying in the fiction itself... but in ''concept'' he's clearly ridiculous. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:28, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Looking at that list, I'm assuming that &quot;ridiculous transformation&quot; is the one major factor. I could nominate [[Signal Lancer]] and his friend [[Pay phone refugee]] on that criterion.<br /> :::::If we're going for the whole package, [[Misfire]]'s gotta be on there somewhere. I have a big soft spot for the fellow, but there's no getting around a Con that can't shoot being ridiculous. Plus he's the only male TF I can think of off-hand that canonically has ''pink'' as his main color. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 13:43, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::[[Sky Lynx (Energon Wars)|''Energon Wars'' Sky Lynx.]] He's pointlessly obscure, to boot! (And yes, definitely the Victory Decepti-wives.) [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 16:15, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Eh, their focus seems to be different than ours. They're internet hipsters mocking things you thought were cool when you were a kid (something that's in plentiful supply on the interwebs). They're not looking very deeply, and have constrained themselves to US G1 because that's all most people even remember exists. So it plays to their target audience, rather than people that actually pay attention to the brand.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 13:35, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::True, but I've always been of the firm belief that if your parody doesn't focus what actually ''is'' wrong/stupid about the thing you're picking on, instead of just generic put-downs, you should step back and let someone who actually knows comedy do the writing. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 13:43, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I don't have a problem with their targets being so generic... I just think the nits they picked were so... ''obvious''. And not very accurate. (Apparently Blaster is inherently racist?)<br /> ::Sky-Bite! Awesome '''and''' ridiculous. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:47, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Well, yes, pretty much. Saying Megatron or Scorponok are ridiculous is kind of missing the mark. Especially when, as you say, there are TFs who are quite delicious in their actual ridiculousness.<br /> :::I mean, now that I think about it, in addition to my nominations above, there's also [[Shortround]], a toy-collecting dork of a Con with a hopeless crush on the &quot;hot chick&quot;, who can also be mistransformed into looking like a toilet just to polish it all off. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 14:04, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> [[Heinrad]] is definitely up there with the most ridiculous, as are the [[Jointron]]s..but I'm sure you've already thought of them. -[[User:Mazenoise|Mazenoise]] 14:19, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Much as I love the KP TFs, [[Glit]]'s profile always makes me wonder why A.) he is a Decepticon and B.) how on Cybertron he's still alive. Gary Stu right there. [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 14:49, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Dude. They used Wikia as their resource. Of course they, and their article, suck. [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 16:16, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> [http://deriksmith.livejournal.com/40853.html List is up], thanks for all the help guys! -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:21, 23 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Consensus on the Allspark seems to be that your list has much better choices but needs more humor in the descriptions. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 11:05, 24 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Aww. I think the Wiki has ruined me with it's dryly informative style. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 12:27, 24 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::You just need practice in channeling copious amounts of sarcastic hyperbolic incredulity when chronicaling stuff that's ridiculous. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:38, 24 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Four hour downtime of June 24 ==<br /> <br /> So, was today's downtime caused by massive server backlog of people wanting to add info to Revenge of the Fallen, or did we just get another unforseen downtime again? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 17:23, 24 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Probably the latter. We'd more likely get a shitload of visitors than a shitload of editors. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 17:28, 24 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :It was most assuredly the former. The server has not actually been down at all. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 23:53, 24 June 2009 (EDT)</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=Grimlock_(G1)&diff=315772 2009-06-20T00:38:08Z

<p>Suki Brits: Undo revision 315771 by SanityOrMadness (Talk) Uh, no.</p> <hr /> <div>{{desnark|The mainpic. Just LOOK at it}}<br /> {{factions|autobot|autobotg2|maximal}}<br /> {{disambig3|Grimlock}}<br /> :''Me Grimlock am [[Autobot|Autobot]] [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobot]] and later [[Maximal]] from the [[Generation 1 (franchise)|Generation 1]] [[continuity family]].''<br /> <br /> [[Image:Grimlockg1.jpg|right|250px|thumb|Me Grimlock draw self-portrait.]]<br /> Some Autobots wonder why '''Grimlock''' is even on their side. His disposition is much more suited to the [[Decepticon]]s.<br /> After all, he values power and strength over wisdom and compassion, and furthermore, he doesn't really get along with most Autobots. When faced with a problem, his usual responses are to slice it with his [[Energo weapon|energo-sword]], tear it to pieces with his bare hands, or outright eat it. He is more willing to accept casualties than most of the Autobot leadership, and doesn't seem particularly concerned about the [[Human|fleshies]] either. These things, coupled with his dislike of [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]], have led to a defection or two on Grimlock's part. He'd have no problem offing the [[Prime (rank)|Autobot leader]] if he thought he could get away with it, though. <br /> <br /> What the Autobots don't realize is that the only thing he hates more than weakness is those who abuse their strength, meaning when push comes to shove, Grimlock will always fall in on the right side of the fence. And despite their disagreements, Grimlock holds a respect for Prime's strength and leadership. <br /> <br /> Grimlock is the leader of the [[Dinobot (G1)|Dinobots]], a small but powerful strike squad. Grimlock himself is extremely strong and durable, and is one of the few Transformers who can not only stand toe-to-toe with Optimus Prime and [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]], but actually give them a run for their money. Despite his strength and prowess, Grimlock continually struggles with his pronouns. <br /> <br /> {{bigquote|Me, Grimlock BADASS!|Grimlock on himself|&quot;[[The War Within]]&quot;}}<br /> <br /> {{note|Grimlock's intelligence level in the cartoon was substantially lower than in most of his other portrayals. See the entries below for details.}}<br /> <br /> :''Preliminary names:'' '''Tyrannobot''' / '''Trapjaw''' / '''Jawbreaker''' / '''Tyrex'''<br /> :''Chinese name:'' '''Gāng Sǔo''' (鋼鎖, &quot;Steel Lock&quot;)<br /> :''French-Canadian name (G1)'': '''La Menace''' (&quot;The Threat&quot;)<br /> :''French-Canadian name (BW)'': '''Menace''' (&quot;Threat&quot;)<br /> :''Hungarian name (The Movie):'' '''Mogorva''' (&quot;Grimlock&quot;) in one of the dubs<br /> :''Italian name:'' '''Tiran'''<br /> :''Portuguese name (Brazil comics):'' '''Trancoso''' / '''Grunhido''' (&quot;Grunt&quot;)<br /> :''Spanish name (BW):'' '''Ferozaurio'''<br /> <br /> ==Fiction==<br /> ===Generation 1 cartoon===<br /> :''Voice Actor:'' [[Gregg Berger|Gregg Berger]] (English), [[Takurō Kitagawa|Takurō Kitagawa]] (Japanese), [[Edgar Fruitier|Edgar Fruitier]] (French Canadian)<br /> <br /> {{Note|In the cartoon series, Grimlock, as with the other Dinobots, was more dimwitted than in most other continuities. For instance, the Dinobots originally decide to help the Autobots, because &quot;them have face like this on chest...&quot;, referring to the Autobot sigil. Pre-movie, this lack of intelligence is usually coupled together with their great power to make them dangerous wild cards. Post-movie, however, Grimlock and the Dinobots are generally played as just plain dumb for comic relief.}}<br /> <br /> {{bigquote|You don't frighten me, you mechanical throwbacks!|Megatron}}<br /> {{bigquote|Good, Megatron! We love stupid enemies.|Grimlock|&quot;[[Atlantis, Arise!]]&quot;}}<br /> <br /> [[Image:Grimhead.JPG|left|250px|thumb|It take while for me Grimlock to settle into character model.]]<br /> When mysterious tremors shook the [[Ark (G1)|Autobot base]], [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]]'s investigation revealed strange objects behind a rock wall. After removing the wall, the Autobots found a cave full of dinosaur bones. The Autobots decided the idea of dinosaurs was interesting and researched the prehistoric beasts. Wheeljack and [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]] asked Optimus Prime if they could build robot dinosaurs, and Prime agreed this was a good idea, only God knows why. Grimlock, [[Slag (G1)|Slag]], and [[Sludge (G1)|Sludge]] were built and unveiled to the Autobots, but the Dinobots were dimwitted and violent, and they attacked their makers, Frankenstein's monster style. Grimlock blasted [[Teletraan I (G1)|Teletraan I]] with his fire-breath, damaging it. Optimus Prime decreed that the Dinobots &quot;must be destroyed.&quot; However, Wheeljack convinced him instead to lock them away, and the trio were herded back into the cave and buried alive. <br /> <br /> [[Image:Grimlockskywarp.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Mmm, taste like chicken!]]<br /> Later, the Decepticons took over a hydroelectric plant, and when the Autobots arrived to stop them, the Autobots were defeated and captured. Wheeljack, Ratchet, and [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]], left behind at Autobot base to finish repairing Teletraan I, decided to go against Optimus' orders and release the Dinobots, but not before upgrading their brains to be smarter and more obedient. After the Dinobots were reactivated, Wheeljack asked them to save their friends. Grimlock said he would obey... this time. They successfully attacked the Decepticons and freed the imprisoned Autobots. Optimus forgave Wheeljack, Ratchet, and Bumblebee for disobeying his orders and welcomed the victorious Dinobots back to the Autobots. {{storylink|S.O.S. Dinobots}}<br /> <br /> After a meteor surging with unknown energies struck the Earth, Optimus ordered the three Dinobots to guard it. He was so pleased with the Dinobots he asked Ratchet and Wheeljack to build two more. Meanwhile, Megatron was frustrated at the Dinobots' success and sent [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]] to probe them for potential weaknesses. Reading the Dinobots' minds, he discovered that Grimlock was arrogant and believed he would make a better leader than the weak Optimus Prime. Megatron decided to use this to his advantage and approached them himself. He played to Grimlock's jealousy and agreed with him that the strongest should be leader. The Dinobots declared Optimus Prime their enemy.<br /> <br /> [[Image:Grimlockapologize.jpg|left|180px|thumb|After he stop shaking hand, me Grimlock going to eat him!]]<br /> <br /> Realizing the meteorite was due to explode, Optimus left to warn the Dinobots, but they attacked him. Instead of destroying him completely, however, Grimlock carried him to the Decepticons, who had stolen the meteorite during the battle. Megatron was angry that Optimus Prime was not destroyed, and Starscream suggested that despite Grimlock's arrogance, inside he was still compassionate (or as compassionate as Grimlock could get). Grimlock didn't take this well and blasted Starscream right in the chest. They were interrupted by the two new Dinobots, [[Snarl (G1)|Snarl]] and [[Swoop (G1)|Swoop]],<br /> whom Megatron ordered the original three Dinobots to attack. At the climax of the battle, the meteorite exploded, but Optimus Prime pushed Grimlock out of the way, saving him. Grimlock realized the error of his ways, and the Dinobots forced the Decepticons into retreat. Grimlock then apologized for his jealousy. {{storylink|War of the Dinobots}}<br /> <br /> {{charstubfiction}}<br /> <br /> {{storylink|The Ultimate Doom, Part 2}} {{storylink|Countdown to Extinction (episode)|Countdown to Extinction}} {{storylink|Heavy Metal War}}<br /> <br /> The Decepticons joined forces with [[Sub-Atlantica]] and staged a full-scale attack on [[Washington, D.C.|Washington, D.C.]]. The Autobots were overwhelmed, forcing Wheeljack to call for the Dinobots' assistance. Grimlock expressed his frustration at being called whenever the Autobots were in over their heads. With their help, the Autobots were able to overturn the Decepticons' advance and plunge the now-burning city of Sub-Atlantica back into the sea. {{storylink|Atlantis, Arise!}} This pattern of the Autobots' dependence on the Dinobots repeated when the artificial intelligence [[TORQ III]], put under Decepticon control, turned all machines against Mankind. With every piece of help he and his troops gave, Grimlock was never slow to add a scathing remark about the inabilities of the Autobots. {{storylink|Day of the Machines}} That said, he was not unwilling to admit the failings of his own troops, either. He willingly took them to the time-displaced &quot;[[Dinobot Island (G1)|Dinobot Island]]&quot;, where they trained in the wilderness {{storylink|Dinobot Island, Part 1}} and helped stop a Decepticon raid on the prehistoric paradise, with Grimlock inspiring the native [[Dinosaur|dinosaurs]] to help them fight the Decepticons. {{storylink|Dinobot Island, Part 2}}<br /> <br /> When the Autobots were &quot;exposed&quot; by [[Shawn Berger]] of being the true perpetrators of the various attacks conducted by the Decepticons, they were banished from Earth. Grimlock (and presumably the Dinobots) were among the Autobots that voluntarily stepped onto a rocket that eventually blasted them towards the [[Sun]]. {{storylink|Megatron's Master Plan, Part 2}}<br /> <br /> [[Image:DesertionDinobotsPt1 Grimlock bites Megs.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Hmmm... Guns.]]<br /> <br /> The final straw for Grimlock came when he and the Dinobots were injured in a Decepticon trap at an airfield. Enraged, Grimlock refused to take orders from Optimus Prime any more and led the Dinobots away from the Ark. When the Autobots began to suffer from Cybertonium deficiency, [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Spike Witwicky]] and his girlfriend [[Carly]] attempted to persuade the Dinobots—who continued to function perfectly, as they had been built on Earth without Cybertonium—to steal some of the mineral from a Decepticon shipment coming in from Cybertron. Although Grimlock was willing to let the Autobots die and decided to crush the humans, he recognized the Cybertron connection to the Cybertonium. Instead of securing the element, Grimlock opted to lead the Dinobots to Cybertron itself, where they were captured by [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]]. {{storylink|Desertion of the Dinobots, Part 1}} He altered the Dinobots' [[Circuits|memory circuits]] and put them to work in the Cybertonium mines, where they remained until Spike and Carly repaired them. Grimlock and Spike faked having an argument, compelling the guards to lower the energy fences to remove the troublesome humans—only to be obliterated by the Dinobots. Grimlock led the group back to Earth, where the Dinobots agreed to follow Prime's orders again—until such time as Grimlock didn't feel like it. {{storylink|Desertion of the Dinobots, Part 2}}<br /> <br /> [[Image:TFTM Grimlock Quintessa.jpg|left|250px|thumb|Me Grimlock mad that name &quot;[[T-Wrecks]]&quot; already taken. &lt;small&gt;(Maybe by me Grimlock.)&lt;/small&gt;]]<br /> <br /> In the year 2005, Grimlock and the other Dinobots were stationed on the Autobots' Moonbase 1, seemingly overseeing weapons production. When word arrived from Earth that Autobot City was suffering a massive Decepticon attack, they traveled to Earth with Optimus Prime and were dispatched by the Autobot leader to take on [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]]. Though they attacked fearlessly, the giant combiner robot was too much for them, shrugging off their attacks and overwhelming them in short order.<br /> <br /> After fleeing [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]]'s attack on [[Autobot City]], the Dinobots, along with [[Kup (G1)|Kup]] and [[Hot Rod (G1)|Hot Rod]], crashed on [[Quintessa]], and were separated from the two Autobots. During their search, the Dinobots met [[Wheelie (G1)|Wheelie]]. Grimlock initially didn't like the rhyming little robot, but soon grew quite fond of him, letting him ride on his back. Eventually, the Dinobots managed to locate where Kup and Hot Rod were being held by the planet's rulers, the [[Quintesson]]s. The Dinobots entered the Quintessons' execution room with all the grace they could muster, and Grimlock immediately declared his desire to munch metal. After the Dinobots saved Hot Rod and Kup from the [[Sharkticon (G1)|Sharkticons]], a Quintesson judge ordered the Sharkticons to execute the Dinobots. Grimlock stomped his foot on the ground and ordered the Sharkticons to execute the Quintessons. They complied with the Dinobot's order. Heading for the [[Junkion (planet)|planet of Junk]], Grimlock watched the Autobots and the [[Junkion|Junkions]] celebrate their new friendship. The party was ended when a Junkion [[Kiss|kissed]] Grimlock, causing him to reassert his status as &quot;king&quot;. Later, Grimlock made one of his life's greatest accomplishments by literally kicking the butt of [[Unicron|a deity]], only to realize shortly afterward that he needs a new strategy. {{storylink|The Transformers: The Movie}}<br /> <br /> {{charstubfiction}}<br /> <br /> {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 1}} {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 2}} {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 3}} {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 4}} {{storylink|Five Faces of Darkness, Part 5}} {{storylink|Chaos (episode)|Chaos}}<br /> <br /> When the reanimated Optimus Prime returned to Cybertron and reported the alleged deaths of Hot Rod, [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]], [[Arcee (G1)|Arcee]], [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Spike]] and [[Daniel Witwicky (G1)|Daniel Witwicky]], Grimlock angrily swore to stomp the Quintessons into the ground. However, the Dinobots were left behind whilst the rest of the Autobots were led by Optimus Prime into a Quintesson trap. {{storylink|Dark Awakening}}<br /> <br /> [[Image:Madman Paradise Grimlock drinks.JPG|right|200px|thumb|Me Grimlock hope they not [[Grimlock (G1)/toys|immortalize this in plastic]].]]<br /> <br /> Grimlock helped to sniff out the &quot;[[dinosaur transform static]]&quot; that implicated [[Trypticon (G1)|Trypticon]] in the theft of world monuments, though before the Trypticon link was discovered, Grimlock and the Dinobots were accused of being the culprits by [[Six-Gun]]. {{storylink|Thief in the Night}} Grimlock continued his new found sense of helpfulness by serving drinks at a major diplomatic event held on Cybertron. When Daniel wandered off in boredom, Grimlock followed his friend and they were both transported to the other-dimensional realm of [[Menonia]], where Grimlock was duped into fighting on the side of the tyrannical Quintesson [[Mara-Al-Utha]]. {{storylink|Madman's Paradise}}<br /> <br /> Grimlock was occasionally among the Autobots seen attacking Galvatron's forces in space, and later on the planet [[Eurhythma]]. {{storylink|Carnage in C-Minor}} At one point, he was stationed at Autobot City when [[Victor Drath]] attempted to infiltrate Metroplex using the lifeless bodies of Ultra Magnus and the other Autobots. The real Ultra Magnus and Springer managed to tip off the Autobots in the city fast enough for them to raise the defenses. {{storylink|Only Human}}<br /> <br /> Later in the year, when Decepticon leader Galvatron had Cybertron infused with function-inverting anti-electrons, a dose of the particles gave Grimlock super-intelligence. During a mission to [[Unicron]]'s disembodied head, where the Autobots were outmatched by the new Decepticon [[Terrorcon (G1)|Terrorcons]], Grimlock used components of Unicron's head to construct the [[Technobot (G1)|Technobot]]s to battle them. Even combined as [[Computron (G1)|Computron]], the Technobots felt they could not match the Terrorcons, until Grimlock transferred his super-intelligence into Computron, reverting to his old self and allowing the Technobots to claim victory. {{storylink|Grimlock's New Brain}}<br /> <br /> [[Image:CallofthePrimitives Grimlock Primacron.jpg|left|200px|thumb|Me Grimlock threaten space monkey into giving me Grimlock energon wine.]]<br /> Grimlock's greatest victory came when he and a large number of other Transformers with animal transformations were summoned to a world at the center of the galaxy by the ex-assistant of the ancient genius, [[Primacron|Primacron]], creator of Unicron. The assistant had assembled these &quot;[[Primitive]]&quot; Transformers in the hope that their simple instincts could defeat Primacron's newest creation, [[Tornedron]], but one by one they fell to him, with Grimlock apparently crushed under Trypticon. Grimlock survived, however, and followed Tornedron back to Primacron's lab. When Tornedron turned on his master, like his predecessor had, Primacron's complicated plans and equations could not find a way to stop him. Grimlock, on the other hand, randomly flicked a switch which reversed Tornedron's energy polarity, undoing the damage he had done and dissipating the creature. Dancing around over his successful saving of the universe, Grimlock decimated Primacron's lab, which he decided was the smartest thing he'd ever done. {{storylink|Call of the Primitives}}<br /> <br /> Grimlock piloted the shuttle bringing [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]] to an important meeting&lt;ref&gt;The meeting was with [[Tommy Kennedy]] and its importance was debatable, but Prime was upset at being late.&lt;/ref&gt; and took a wrong turn, making Prime very late. Prime subsequently took him to have his brain circuits upgraded. {{storylink|The Transformers (cartoon)|Season 5}}/ {{storylink|The Transformers: The Movie}}<br /> <br /> ===Japanese cartoon continuity===<br /> ====''Binaltech''====<br /> After the Dinobots were defeated and deactivated on [[Earth]] by a strange alien virus, Grimlock was rebuilt using [[Binaltech (franchise)|Binaltech]] technology to save his life. He hates his new Ford Mustang form. No teeth to munch metal, ya see.<br /> <br /> ====''The Great Transformer War'' manga====<br /> Shortly after creating the [[Technobot (G1)|Technobot]]s, Grimlock joined [[Hot Rod (G1)|Rodimus Prime]], [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Spike]] and others as they observed a battle between [[Computron (G1)|Computron]] and [[Abominus]]. Thanks to upgrades by [[Doctor Dalton]], Computron was fairing well in battle. However, during his internment by [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]], Dalton was forced to upgrade the [[Terrorcon (G1)|Terrorcon]]s, as well.<br /> <br /> The Terrorcons took control of Computron with a &quot;[[Cohesive Control Liquid]]&quot;, much to Grimlock's horror. Dalton explained that the only way to save Computron was for a [[human]] to burn off the control liquid. [[Daniel Witwicky (G1)|Daniel]] wanted to go, but Spike forbid him and went himself. As Daniel pouted, Grimlock poked fun at him for still being a puny kid. Eventually, the Technobots were saved and the Decepticons retreated. {{storylink|The Great Transformer War issue 2}}<br /> <br /> ====''The Headmasters'' cartoon====<br /> [[Image:FourWarriors Grimlock hyptonized.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Me Grimlock cannot hope to defeat Aquaman.]]<br /> <br /> In the year 2011, the Decepticons invaded Cybertron in full force. Grimlock was deployed by [[Wreck-Gar (G1)|Wreck-Gar]] to fend off the invaders. He was seen fighting alongside his fellow Dinobots as well as the [[Throttlebot]]s against the invading Decepticons. However, they didn't fare too well against the Decepticon [[Headmaster (technology)|Headmasters]], as they were all quickly put to sleep by [[Mindwipe]]'s hypnosis attack. {{storylink|Four Warriors Come out of the Sky}}<br /> {{-}}<br /> <br /> ===Marvel Comics continuity===<br /> ====Generation 1====<br /> {{noteukonly}}<br /> {{note|The comic Dinobots had average, functional intellects. Grimlock spoke normally for most of the early issues, but by [[King of the Hill!|Marvel US issue #27]], Grimlock began affecting a caveman-esque speech pattern to mask his intelligence, &lt;ref&gt;Grimlock possesses a brilliant mind but considers intellectuals weak. He chooses to talk dumb rather than be thought of as weak. ''Marvel UK #200 &quot;Secrets of the Transformers&quot; booklet.''&lt;/ref&gt; leaving his fellow Autobots to think he has a glitch in his speech processor. The other Dinobots speak normally.}}<br /> <br /> Millions of years ago on [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]], Grimlock and four other warriors who would later become the Dinobots snuck into a [[Decepticon|Decepticon]] spaceport and stole a number of ships and hid them in the [[Rad Zone]], suspecting that one day they might become fed up with [[Optimus Prime (G1)|Optimus Prime]]'s leadership and strike out on their own. {{storylink|A Savage Circle}}<br /> <br /> [[Image:Arkshuttle3.jpg|left|350px|thumb|Countless kids were left wondering what &quot;cur leader Grimlock&quot; means.]]<br /> While the Autobots remained dormant inside [[Mount St. Hilary]], the [[Ark (G1)|Ark]] detected Cybertronian life. Dispatching a probe, the Ark learned that [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] had come to Earth and was wandering the [[Savage Land]]. The Ark used data gathered from the Savage Land to convert five of the dormant Autobots into the Dinobots. They traveled to fight Shockwave, but their battle reached a stalemate when all combatants became trapped in a tar pit and buried under a collapsing cliff side. {{storylink|Repeat Performance!}} <br /> <br /> Information on this battle were stored on the Ark's memory banks and were discovered four million years later by [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]] {{storylink|The Last Stand}}, and Ratchet, at the moment the last Autobot on Earth that remained functional, tempted [[Megatron (G1)|Megatron]] with details of Shockwave's alleged defeat as currency for a deal with him. Promising Megatron that he would find the Dinobots and use them to defeat Shockwave on Megatron's behalf, {{storylink|Warrior School!}} Ratchet traveled to the Savage Land and retrieved the bodies of the Dinobots. Ratchet faked this defeat using video of [[Slag (G1)|Slag]]'s memories and when Megatron doublecrossed him, he ambushed Megatron with the Dinobots. However, Grimlock and the others were no match for Megatron, and they were knocked aside. Ratchet managed a victory regardless, and he and the Dinobots returned to the Ark. {{storylink|Repeat Performance!}}<br /> <br /> [[Image:Grimlocktestsnewhand.jpg|right|350px|thumb|Now that's a bedside manner.]]<br /> ''On the way back to the Ark, Grimlock had his first encounter with a [[human]], which didn't end well. Ratchet sought to explain why humans feared them with a story about the Autobots' battle with the Decepticons at [[Sherman Dam]]. At story's end, they reached the Ark, but it was guarded mercilessly by [[Guardian (Marvel)|Guardian]]! After Guardian disposed of [[Swoop (G1)|Swoop]], {{storylink|Decepticon Dam-Busters!}} the Dinobots attacked Guardian together, but they were defeated and were forced to regroup. Grimlock was furious when Ratchet said Swoop's injuries were not top priority, as he had an Ark full of Autobots in need of care. While Ratchet was tending to [[Prowl (G1)|Prowl]], [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]], and [[Jazz (G1)|Jazz]], Grimlock led the remaining Dinobots on a second attack against Guardian. This time they were successful, though they didn't realize that Guardian was hardwired with a bomb that threatened them all. {{storylink|The Wrath of Guardian!}} Thankfully, Wheeljack was able to control Optimus Prime's headless body by remote and seize Grimlock's arm before he could deliver the blow that would destroy them all. Ultimately, their lives were saved by Swoop, who carried Guardian up into the sky as the bomb detonated. With Swoop believed dead, Grimlock took his Dinobots elsewhere. {{storylink|The Wrath of Grimlock!}}''<br /> <br /> ''After Swoop returned in a berserker rage, it became apparent that the Dinobots had reverted to their base instincts due to their primary cybo-dendrons having burnt out from millions of years stuck in tar, so the Autobots plotted to round them up. Grimlock and Sludge were the final targets, and as the two tore through a snowy part of [[Canada|Canada]], Optimus Prime vowed to stop them even if it cost him his life. [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]] discovered that the source of the rage was coming from a Decepticon-crafted signal, but when the signal was destroyed, the Dinobots entered a deep hibernation stat from which there may not have been any return. {{storylink|Dinobot Hunt!}} While Grimlock sat comatose, he dreamed of slaying Megatron, though he subsequently died at the hands of Starscream. {{storylink|Victory!}} After being repaired by Ratchet, Grimlock dreamed of defeating Megatron {{storylink|Victory!}} Grimlock and the other Dinobots were eventually reawakened, and ''they attended the unveiling of the Autobots' last line of defense, [[Omega Supreme (G1)|Omega Supreme]]. Jointly, Optimus Prime detailed a plan to attack the Decepticon base and immediately retreat after stealing data from [[Devastator (G1)|Devastator]]. Grimlock was displeased at this, and refused to fight a war in which he was unable to fight. He seceded his Dinobots from the Autobots, and they struck out on their own. {{storylink|Command Performances!}} ''Grimlock and the other Dinobots met up with Sludge's human friend, [[Joy Meadows]]. {{storylink|In the National Interest}}''<br /> <br /> ''While wandering the countryside, Grimlock and the other Dinobots chanced across the time-traveling [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]] as he was beating up on a small group of Autobots who had recently arrived from Cybertron. {{storylink|Fallen Angel (issue)|Fallen Angel}} The all-powerful Galvatron bested Grimlock in hand-to-hand combat, and Grimlock was about to receive a deadly blow from his own sword when he was rescued by [[Blaster (G1)|Blaster]]. The combatants were scattered when Shockwave's Decepticons fired upon Galvatron and allowed the time-traveller to leave. {{storylink|Resurrection!}}''<br /> <br /> [[Image:Grimlockkingofthehill.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Blah blah Grimlock thinks in real English, but dude, check out that creepy grin on Slag.]]<br /> <br /> Paleontology student [[Rachel Becker]] found Grimlock's footprints in the [[Cascade Mountain Range]], so she, [[Robert Paaswell|her professor]], and [[Marty Cooper|his assistant]] pitched tents to observe the area overnight. The Dinobots were indeed hiding nearby, and when Swoop brought Grimlock news of Optimus Prime's<br /> death, Grimlock prepared to take leadership of the Autobots for himself. The Dinobot Commander interrupted a committee of high-ranking Autobots attempting to nominate a replacement, and he rudely nominated himself. Unsurprisingly, the Autobots were not impressed, and Grimlock was turned away. Grimlock got a chance to prove himself when [[Trypticon (G1)|Trypticon]] attacked the Ark. At first his plan was to hide in the forest, let Trypticon &quot;soften up&quot; the Autobots, remove the Decepticon, and impose leadership over the weakened faction, but Grimlock's doubts increased as the Autobots were pummeled. Additionally, he was surprised when Rachel Becker approached Grimlock with no fear, since he was certain that all humans were cowards. When Rachel's life was threatened by Trypticon, Grimlock attacked Trypticon himself, which signaled the other Dinobots to follow his lead. In the aftermath of his victory against the Decepticon intruder, the high-ranking Autobots decided that Grimlock had displayed all the desired traits of a great Autobot leader—wisdom, compassion, courage, charisma, and military skill. {{storylink|King of the Hill!}} <br /> <br /> [[Image:Variablevoltageharness.jpg|left|300px|thumb|Time it took for power to corrupt Grimlock: Approximately 3 seconds.]]<br /> <br /> Unfortunately for the Autobots, Grimlock set about immediately picking out a crown for himself and affecting an unintelligent way of speaking. His first point of order was to steal back the assorted equipment and tools that the [[Mechanic]] had stolen from them shortly before his assumption of command. To his dismay, [[Bumblebee (G1)|Goldbug]] and Blaster refused to harm humans if necessary to complete the mission. {{storylink|Mechanical Difficulties!}} The two Autobots deserted. {{storylink|Crater Critters}} ''Now that the [[Predacon (G1)|Predacons]] were on Earth, they began terrorizing Swoop, who had a dark history with the Predacon [[Divebomb (G1)|Divebomb]]. Swoop was afraid to admit that he has lost his name to Divebomb millions of years ago after losing a fight with the Predacon, but Grimlock admitted that he had known ever since he had taken command of the Autobots and had access to Optimus Prime's files... and didn't care! He and the other Dinobots stood up for Swoop and kicked the Predacons' sorry behinds. {{storylink|Grudge Match!}}'' When Blaster and Goldbug didn't return, Grimlock labeled them traitors and ordered the [[Protectobot (G1)|Protectobots]] to bring them in. Grimlock had in the meantime completed repairs on the Ark itself, and with Wheeljack's new [[Geothermal Generator]], they were no longer dependent on humans for fuel. {{storylink|Used Autobots}} Expecting Blaster and Goldbug's forced return, Grimlock had a [[variable voltage harness]] constructed to serve as their punishment. He ordered the Ark to launch into Earth orbit. {{storylink|Child's Play (issue)|Child's Play}} Immediately the Ark overtook the Decepticon [[Blast Off (G1)|Blast Off]], who was being taken for a ride by Blaster and the [[Spacehiker|Spacehiker]] children. Fearing Grimlock's growing megalomania, Wheeljack had called his old friend [[Sky Lynx (G1)|Sky Lynx]] for help. Before Grimlock could capture Blast Off, the children threw Blaster from the airlock into space. Grimlock used the children as bait, threatening to end their lives if Blaster did not show up. Blaster returned himself to the Ark to the welcome arms of the other Autobots, who had grown tired of Grimlock's tyranny. Despite Sky Lynx's intervention outside the Ark, he was surrounded by the Dinobots, and Blaster was forced to give himself up to protect the safety of the children. {{storylink|Spacehikers!}} <br /> <br /> [[Image:Grimlockokeydokeyblaster.jpg|right|300px|thumb|We've replaced ruthless early-to-mid Marvel Comics Grimlock with Season 3 cartoon Grimlock. Let's see if Blaster notices.]]<br /> <br /> Blaster was placed in the variable voltage harness for his treason. Some time thereafter, Grimlock's Autobots stationed on the Ark met up with Autobots from Nebulos stationed on the ''[[Steelhaven]]''. Grimlock was furious that the ''Steelhaven''&lt;nowiki&gt;'&lt;/nowiki&gt;s Autobots were led by a human, [[Spike Witwicky (G1)|Spike Witwicky]], and he challenged Spike's [[Binary bond|binary bond]] partner, [[Fortress Maximus (G1)|Fruitloop Multipuck]], to a duel for ultimate Autobot supremacy. Forktongue Maxiface was in no condition to fight, as he had suffered terrible damage recently at the hands of Shockwave, so Grimlock offered Blaster to fight in his stead. Both ships' crews unloaded onto Earth's [[Moon (moon)|moon]] to watch the fight, but Blaster and Grimlock's grudge match quickly rumbled past the horizon line. After exchanging blows, Grimlock and Blaster noticed explosions back at the ships' landing site, and agreed to a short truce to investigate. Indeed, Ratbat's Decepticons had ambushed the Autobots in their absence, but with the introduction of Blaster and Grimlock to what had been up to that point a massacre, the tide quickly turned. Grimlock's sword pierced the forcefield of the Decepticons' [[Club Con|flying island base]], and the Decepticons retreated. In the wake, Fortress Maximus admitted that he had sent Goldbug and the ''Steelhaven'''s skeleton crew to Nebulos to rebuild Optimus Prime, their true leader. {{storylink|Totaled!}}<br /> <br /> Optimus Prime returned from Nebulos as a [[Power Master]] and took back the reins of command, though both Grimlock and Fortress Maximus kept high-profile positions in the ranks. The trio watched a commercial for [[Club Con]], a tropical resort suspiciously helmed by Decepticons. Grimlock wanted to bust some heads, but Optimus thought a more subtle approach was needed. {{storylink|Club Con!}} ''Meanwhile, Earth was coming apart at the seams due to a timestorm caused by the displacement of Galvatron, [[Scourge (G1)|Scourge]], and [[Cyclonus (G1)|Cyclonus]] from Earth's future. Optimus, Grimlock, and Fortress Maximus held court, and decided an attack on the future Decepticon's undergrund base was due. During the battle, shockingly, Optimus and others were displaced to [[limbo]] by [[Rodimus Prime (G1)|Rodimus Prime]] and other Autobots from the future. Believing these future Autobots were imposters, responsible for the apparent deaths of Optimus Prime and the other displaced Autobots, Fortress Maximus and Grimlock led a vengeful charge. By the time the truth was learned, the stakes had shifted, and the future and present Autobots, including Grimlock, teamed up to face the combined might of Galvatron and a [[Straxus (G1)|clone of Megatron]]. {{storylink|Time Wars}}''<br /> <br /> [[Image:Grimlockdarkstar.jpg|left|300px|thumb|Yeah, those Pretenders are ''real'' sorry.]]<br /> <br /> Answering a distress call in the [[Arctic]], Grimlock and the Autobots found [[Buster Witwicky]]... and a Decepticon ambush! After a number of casualties, a brittle truce was forged when it was discovered that this was all a setup by [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] to divert attention away from his grab at the [[Underbase]]. Both factions found Starscream about the meet the Underbase in space, but Starscream was able to absorb enough Underbase energy to throw his ship into theirs. Starscream departed for Earth, to conquer the cities of [[New York]], [[Tokyo]], and [[Buenos Aires]], and Optimus had thoughtfully kept the Ark nearby to help ship everyone back to Earth. Grimlock and [[Scorponok (G1)|Scorponok]] led a team sent ahead to Tokyo to await Starscream. After the Underbase-powered Decepticon destroyed the Dinobots, Grimlock was quick to fire upon Starscream and scored one of the few consequential hits on the fearsome traitor. Grimlock hunted him down and bit at Starscream's leg, but Starscream was able to grab the Dinobot commander and place him between himself and &quot;friendly&quot; fire from the Decepticon [[Pretender|Pretenders]]. {{storylink|Dark Star (issue)|Dark Star}} Grimlock perished, and was next seen undergoing futile repairs onboard the Ark. {{storylink|Guess Who the Mecannibals Are Having for Dinner?}}<br /> <br /> [[Image:Grimlockyesterdaysheroes.jpg|right|250px|thumb|Wait, if Grimlock still looks like his original [[character model]], whose tail-gun is that?]]<br /> <br /> Grimlock was brought back on-line by [[Ratchet (G1)|Ratchet]] using [[Pretender]] technology stolen from Megatron. {{storylink|All the Familiar Faces!}} While Grimlock, along with [[Jazz (G1)|Jazz]] and [[Bumblebee (G1)|Bumblebee]], handily defeated Megatron's minions, he was unable to save Ratchet when Megatron's base exploded. {{storylink|Skin Deep}} Afterward, Grimlock, Jazz and Bumblebee briefly joined the Autobot resistance movement on Cybertron before attempting to return to Earth via [[Trans-Time Dimensional Portal|trans-time dimensional portal]]. However, [[Thunderwing (G1)|Thunderwing]], seeking to crush the resistance's momentum, sent ''the latest incarnation of'' the [[Mayhem Attack Squad]] to destroy the three Autobot Pretenders. Infiltrating [[Autobase (G1)|Autobase]], the three Decepticons sabotaged the portal, teleporting all six Transformers (and the [[Micromaster]] [[Rescue Patrol]]) deep into the heart of Cybertron, where the Autobots discovered the resting place of their god, [[Primus]]. {{storylink|Yesterday's Heroes!}}<br /> <br /> Grimlock at first thought it was all a Decepticon trick and was [[Atechnogenesis|skeptical]] that the Transformers even had a god. When the [[Keeper (Transformer)|Keeper]] appeared, Grimlock demanded the ancient Transformer &quot;prove it&quot; by telling them the story of the Transformers' origin. The Keeper's story (complete with holographic slide-show) was suitably convincing, but unfortunately gave the Mayhem Attack Squad time to sneak up on the Autobots, and another battle ensued. The outnumbered Decepticons were no match for Grimlock and company, but [[Octopunch]]'s last-ditch shot ricocheted off the Dinobot's back, waking Primus. A few seconds too late, the Autobots in Autobase repaired the portal, sending the lost Transformers to Earth. Grimlock immediately demanded they find the Earth-based Autobots to warn them of [[Unicron]]. {{storylink|Primal Scream (issue)|Primal Scream}}<br /> <br /> [[Image:Grimlockdarkcreation.jpg|left|250px|thumb|Like cartoon Grimlock, Grimlock's shell has beautiful, soulful blue eyes.]]<br /> <br /> After rejoining Optimus Prime's forces, Grimlock, Jazz and Bumblebee formed a team in the search for the lost [[Matrix of Leadership|Creation Matrix]]. Traveling to [[VsQs]], where Optimus Prime's funeral barge had crashed, the three began to search an abandoned science station for any clue as to the Matrix's whereabouts. While Bumblebee searched the computer logs, Grimlock went looking for the science team—only to discover they had all been killed. Before the Autobots could formulate a plan, Thunderwing attacked. Grimlock's first reaction was to attack, but not even all three of them could defeat the Decepticon leader. Instead, they were &quot;saved&quot; by the [[Matrix Spawn]], which became Thunderwing's new target. The three Autobots searched the wrecked station independently and recovered the Matrix. Low on [[Energon (fuel)|energon]], the three attempted to return to their shuttle, but the moon's heavy gravity slowed them down, allowing Thunderwing to overtake them, defeat the three weakened Autobots and claim the Matrix for his own. {{storylink|Dark Creation}}<br /> <br /> After Thunderwing's defeat, the Autobots sent a shuttle to VsQs to rescue Grimlock and the others, who were low on energon and on the verge of [[Stasis lock|stasis lock]]. Grimlock was none too grateful for his rescue, instead berating himself for failing to destroy Thunderwing and guilty that he was alive while the other Dinobots were still deactivated. However, without Ratchet or the Matrix, the Autobots knew of no way to bring back their fallen. Grimlock sought Optimus's permission to travel to [[Hydrus Four]] and investigate the rumors of the substance [[Nucleon]]. When Optimus refused, Grimlock stole a shuttle and the bodies of the Dinobots and went anyway, which everyone really should have seen coming. {{storylink|Eye of the Storm!}}<br /> <br /> [[Image:Grimlockpriceoflife.jpg|right|250px|thumb|Grimlock never looked like his inner Pretender robot.]]<br /> <br /> Once on Hydrus Four, Grimlock sought out the medi-center on the island of Farooth, where the well of Nucleon was kept. Along the way, he encountered the substance's three guardians, zombie-like mechanoids who attempted to bar visitors from tapping the Nucleon. Two engaged him in combat, but Grimlock dispatched them easily. Unlike destroying Decepticons, he could take no pleasure in his victories, which seemed pointless. He began to question his motives: Was he really trying to save the Dinobots, or just prove himself a better leader than Prime? By the time he reached the island of Farooth, Grimlock simply wanted the grim business done with.<br /> <br /> At the well, Grimlock encountered the final guardian. The Hydrusian didn't want to fight, but instead warned him that Nucleon always came with unexpected side effects. To quell the doubts that had plagued him since his arrival, Grimlock decided to test the Nucleon on himself, plunging a hand into the well. Feeling a surge of power and no immediate side effects, Grimlock decided it had to be safe and went to work reviving the other Dinobots, ignoring the Hydrusian's parting<br /> words, &quot;Time will tell.&quot; {{storylink|The Price of Life!}}<br /> <br /> With the Dinobots revived, Grimlock loaded up as much Nucleon as he could and returned to the Ark. {{storylink|...All This and Civil War 2}} The Dinobots found it empty, as Primus had teleported the Earth-bound Transformers back to Cybertron. Electing not to waste time looking for the others, Grimlock ordered [[Swoop (G1)|Swoop]] to set course for Cybertron while Sludge and [[Slag (G1)|Slag]] pumped the Nucleon into the Ark's life-support pods. The Dinobots were unaware that the life-support pods also held Megatron, as Grimlock had departed before Ratchet's rescue. {{storylink|The Void! (US)|The Void!}}<br /> <br /> [[Image:G1 Grimlock vs demons.jpg|left|250px|thumb|They brought claws to a sword fight.]]<br /> <br /> Grimlock was the first Transformer to begin feeling the Nucleon's effects. Before he even left Hydrus Four, he began suffering erratic joint locks. He tried to hide the symptoms as long as he could, but after Unicron's defeat, they began to worsen, until his entire body seized up during a battle. [[Hi-Q]] came to his rescue, recognizing that the Nucleon was still transforming Grimlock's body. Hi-Q accelerated the process, as the Nucleon granted Grimlock a new, more powerful body, but at the cost of [[Action Master|his ability to transform]]. {{storylink|Still Life!}}<br /> <br /> [[Image:Grimlockendoftheroad.jpg|right|150px|thumb|Octopunch: &quot;I see what you did there.&quot;]]<br /> Optimus Prime died from injuries sustained in the war, and named Grimlock his chosen successor (although Grimlock still had to put up with Dumb Prowl as his self-appointed advisor and conscience). While Prowl began naive negotiations with the Decepticons for continued peace, Grimlock had his Dinobots arrange precautionary measures against any treachery. {{storylink|Exodus!}} Sure enough, the new Decepticon leader [[Bludgeon (G1)|Bludgeon]] sabotaged the Autobot ships on Cybertron and took off to loot and plunder with his army. Thanks to Grimlock, though, the Autobots not only had a set of ships held in reserve, but the Dinobots had also placed tracking devices on the Decepticon shuttles, leading the Autobot pursuit force right to the planet [[Klo]]. {{storylink|A Savage Circle}} Unfortunately, Grimlock's knack for forward-thinking ran a little short here, and he led his Dinobots into a trap as soon as the troops arrived on Klo. It seemed the Decepticons had discovered Grimlock's tracking device and anticipated their arrival. One massacre later and the only Autobots left alive were Grimlock, Prowl, Slag, Kup and Blaster. Despite their misfortunes, they managed to overcome the Decepticon hunting party sent after them, and carried the battle back to Bludgeon and his men. Luckily, a miracle arrived in the form of a resurrected Optimus Prime and his new friend, the awesomely powerful [[Last Autobot]], who began spontaneously reviving all the Autobots who fell in battle with the Decepticons. Facing an ever growing number of fully recharged Autobots, Bludgeon fled with his remaining Decepticons, and Grimlock and the Autobots stood victorious. {{storylink|End of the Road! (US)|End of the Road!}}<br /> {{-}}<br /> =====Marvel UK future timelines=====<br /> ''Following their adventures on [[Quintessa]] and the war with Unicron, {{storylink|The Transformers: The Movie}} Grimlock and the Dinobots were stationed on Cybertron during the Autobot war effort to consolidate control over the planet. In 2008, the Decepticons staged a brazen and unprovoked attack on the Autobot location, prompting an incredible battle. Grimlock led the charge of his Dinobots, and literally began to &quot;munch metal&quot;. When [[Smokescreen (G1)|Smokescreen]] returned to Cybertron from the planet [[Junk]] with information, however, Grimlock exited the battle to attend a war room meeting with [[Rodimus Prime (G1)|Rodimus Prime]], Kup and [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]]. They learned from Smokescreen that Unicron had survived their last encounter, and his head had been drawn to Junk, where he then took over the minds of the [[Junkion]]s and began forcing them to rebuild his lost body out of their planet. Realizing that the Decepticons were just pawns being used by Unicron to distract them, the Autobots realized the true battle awaited them on Junk. Rodimus Prime questioned whether he could pull enough troops away from the battle at hand to be of any use on Junk, but Grimlock reminded Roddy who he was talking to, and assured that his Dinobots would be more than enough firepower. Rodimus agreed, and brought Grimlock, [[Scattershot]], Smokescreen and the rest of the Dinobots with him to confront Unicron. While Scattershot and Smokescreen distracted Unicron in the shuttle, Grimlock brought the Dinobots down to the planet and stopped the mind-warped Junkions from making any further repairs on Unicron's body. {{storylink|The Legacy of Unicron!}}''<br /> <br /> ''Later, Grimlock was part of Rodimus Prime's crew who came to Earth to free Autobot City from Quintesson occupation. {{storylink|Space Pirates!}}''<br /> <br /> =====Earthforce=====<br /> {{Earthforcefiction}}<br /> [[Image:Primevsgrimlockbreakaway.jpg|left|250px|thumb|The clumsy, awkward fight you've been waiting for!]]<br /> <br /> ''In one alternate timeline, Grimlock found a way to revive his fellow Dinobots after their destruction in the Underbase Saga. This method may or may not have involved Nucleon, as it did in the main timeline, and Grimlock apparently did not or could not bring back the means for restoring all the Autobots in the Ark's life pods. With the Dinobots back together they came on strong, battling a new splinter group of Decepticons that had sprung up on Earth under Shockwave's command. Grimlock personally brought down both [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] and the [[Battlecharger]]s himself. Despite their victory, Optimus Prime harangued Grimlock and his team for their brutal tactics, flying in the face of the &quot;[[Autobot Code]]&quot;. {{storylink|Two Steps Back!}} This led to a shouting match between the two Autobots where Grimlock threatened to take his Dinobots and quit the Autobot army altogether. The situation deteriorated further into a physical brawl, but ultimately Prime and Grimlock knocked some sense into each other. With Unicron inching ever closer to Cybertron, Optimus Prime decided that the Autobots aboard the Ark were needed elsewhere, yet Earth still needed defenders. Therefore he promoted Grimlock to Autobot Commander: Earth. Grimlock was given his Dinobots, his fellow (former) Classic Pretenders, and the five Autobots recently reawakened by [[Galvatron (G1)|Galvatron]] as troops. In return for their autonomy, all Optimus Prime asked for was to show some restraint.''<br /> <br /> ''He was probably kidding. Or concussed. Whatever. {{storylink|Break-Away!}}''<br /> <br /> [[Image:Earthforce.jpg|right|250px|thumb|Charrrge!]]<br /> ''From the beginning, Grimlock made it clear to his troops that they would not be fighting the war Prime's way. To get things done right, they'd have to toss the Autobot Code out the window. To demonstrate what he meant by this, Grimlock picked up a copy of the Autobot Code and tossed it out the window. Grimlock isn't big on metaphors. {{storylink|Once upon a Time...|Once Upon a Time...}}''<br /> <br /> ''Shortly after Earthforce started up, Grimlock received a transmission from Shockwave, challenging him to a duel leader-to-leader. Grimlock vigorously accepted, and traveled 300 miles away to the coordinates Shockwave transmitted, deep in the [[Canada|Canadian]] wilderness during a snowstorm. Only problem was... he couldn't find Shockwave. Grimlock wandered around in the snow and ice for awhile until he found him, or rather, he found a snowman shaped like Shockwave with a sign out front saying &quot;April Fools! — Slag, Snarl, Sludge, Swoop&quot;. Two [[Predacon (G1)|Predacons]] patrolling the area had the misfortune of coming across Grimlock right at that moment. What happened next was censored by the Comic Code Authority, Mothers Against Violence, and viewers like you. He later headed back to the base with the biggest snowball he could carry. (Wonder what he was going to do with it?) {{storylink|Snow Fun!}}''<br /> <br /> ''Later, Grimlock made a deal with the [[Survivors]], lending them aid to rescue their Decepticon comrade [[Carnivac (G1)|Carnivac]] in exchange for them joining Earthforce under his command. {{storylink|Where Wolf?}}''<br /> <br /> ''After Wheeljack finished the construction of Autobot Earthbase, Grimlock gave him a hearty slap on the back as congratulations on a job well done. After they learned Wheeljack had effectively locked them out of the base with the defense grid fully active and hunting for targets, Grimlock hung Wheeljack upside-down by his ankle and smothered his face in the snow. (Centuries later, the good guys are apparently [[A Better Mousetrap|still this dumb]].) {{storylink|The House that Wheeljack Built!}} As if that weren't enough, [[Soundwave (G1)|Soundwave]] staged a full-scale Decepticon assault before the grid could be repaired, putting Earthforce on the defensive. Grimlock took his Dinobots out to kick butt, and threw his energo-sword right through [[Octane]]'s wing. They soon drove off the Decepticons. {{storylink|Divide and Conquer!}}''<br /> <br /> ''It was just one annoyance after another for Grimlock when Optimus Prime came to inspect the newly finished Earthbase. First, he and the Dinobots had to hide the fact that Slag was an unbridled killing machine unfit to wear the Autobot symbol. That wacky Slag—always killin' folk. {{storylink|The 4,000,000 Year Itch!}} Then Dumb Prime wanted to use Wheeljack's Bodyshop to revive one of the most obnoxious Autobots on Grimlock's hit list—the vanity-obsessed [[Tracks (G1)|Tracks]]. Grimlock tried to sabotage the revival process several times, but eventually Tracks was brought on-line anyway, while Grimlock got forcibly and painfully dragged through the auto-restoration machine. To make things worse, Prime assigned Tracks to Earthforce, meaning Grimlock had to put up with him permanently. {{storylink|Makin' Tracks!}}''<br /> <br /> ''When Snarl was diagnosed with the fatal disease [[Corrodia Gravis]], Grimlock and Earthforce had to seek out Starscream, the only Transformer capable of giving his Dinobot comrade a compatible systems boost. {{storylink|Assassins}} To make things even more complicated, they found the Decepticons at war with each other at their Louisiana headquarters, with Megatron, Shockwave and their [[Mayhem Attack Squad|Mayhem]] assassins trying to take out Starscream and Soundwave. Forced to choose sides, Grimlock sent Sludge and Swoop to protect Starscream from the assassins while he and the others dealt with the two former Decepticon leaders. After Slag charbroiled Megatron and Grimlock plunged his energo-sword through Shockwave's chest, they gave up the fight and took off. Starscream then agreed to the systems boost in exchange for Grimlock's promise to help if Megatron tried to assassinate him again. {{storylink|The Lesser Evil}}''<br /> <br /> ''After [[Superion (G1)|Superion]] went crazy due to a [[cerebro-shell]], Grimlock and the Autobots were forced to give an interview and a guided tour of their base to the reporter [[Irwin Spoon|Irwin Spoon]] in exchange for his help removing the shell from their friend. {{storylink|Inside Story!|Inside Story!}} Grimlock was less than thrilled. He probably was relieved when the nosy human got kidnapped and brainwashed by [[Bombshell]] and the [[Stunticon]]s—at least Grimlock got to skip his interview! {{storylink|End of the Road! (UK)|End of the Road!}}''<br /> <br /> =====''Another Time and Place''=====<br /> {{note|The &quot;Another Time and Place&quot; text story was meant to be a conclusion to the Marvel continuity, but its events were ignored by [[Generation 2 (Marvel Comics)|Generation 2]]. It was [[Withered Hope|later labeled]] a &quot;dead end&quot; [[splinter timeline]].}}<br /> <br /> [[Image:TFAnnual1991rip.JPG|left|150px|thumb|Break off me Grimlock piece of that Kit Kat bar!]]<br /> <br /> In the months that followed the war on Klo, as more and more Autobots began to succumb to the Nucleon's effects and lose their ability to transform, Grimlock's guilt over his actions grew. When he heard the medical facilities on Hydrus-Four had reopened and discovered a means of reversing Nucleon's effect, he jumped at the chance. Taking his fellow Dinobots back there, Grimlock and his comrades ran smack into a Decepticon trap. Bludgeon and his crew had followed the Dinobots to Hydrus-Four and cut in ahead of them, taking control of the med-facility and installing a [[Holocaust Trigger|Holocaust Trigger]] device, which totally overwhelmed the Dinobots' equilibrium as they entered, knocking them out. Grimlock awoke hours later to find Bludgeon's sickly-skullhead grinning at him, as the Master of Metallikato planned to use the Nucleon to revitalize his warriors and bring the Great Megatron himself back to life. Luckily, Optimus Prime and Prowl arrived with a rescue party in time to stop the macabre resurrection ceremony from being completed. Bludgeon was destroyed, and Prime and Grimlock personally ripped apart the half-reanimated Megatron. Normally, [[Furmanism|it never ends]], but this time it truly did. {{storylink|Another Time and Place}}<br /> {{-}}<br /> <br /> ====Generation 2====<br /> After the coming of the [[Last Autobot]], much of the Autobot army scattered. Grimlock took command of a small commando team, leading strikes against [[Cybertronian|Decepticon outposts]] across the galaxy. After encountering seventeen conquered worlds, cyberformed into &quot;little Cybertrons&quot;, Grimlock realized the problem was greater than he had originally imagined and contacted Optimus Prime. After comparing notes in an abandoned base, the Autobots were captured by [[Jhiaxus (G2)|Jhiaxus]]. While Optimus began to despair after learning Jhiaxus' origins, Grimlock refused to give up, bolstering the Autobot leader's spirits as they led an escape from [[Twilight|Jhiaxus' flagship]]. {{storylink|War Without End!}}<br /> <br /> [[Image:Prowlg2muzzle.jpg|left|150px|thumb|Lemme at 'em! Lemme at 'em! I'll SPLAT 'em!]]<br /> <br /> Despite his loyalty to Autobot ways, Grimlock still chafed under Optimus' leadership. Disobeying his orders (which somehow still surprised Optimus), Grimlock led a raiding party against Jhiaxus, seeking to destroy the ''Twilight''. Unfortunately, the Dinobot failed to anticipate Jhiaxus' increased security measures, and the mission cost [[Red Alert (G1)|Red Alert]] and [[Mirage (G1)|Mirage]] their lives. Their deaths forced Grimlock to question his methods and his attitude toward Optimus Prime. He admitted that he envied Prime for the loyalty he inspired in the Autobots, and that this, not the leadership of the Autobots, was what he'd truly desired. Thus, no one was more surprised than Grimlock when Optimus Prime placed the Dinobot in command while he traveled back to Cybertron. {{storylink|Devices and Desires! (Marvel)|Devices and Desires!}}<br /> <br /> Grimlock's command status proved invaluable when Optimus met Megatron on Earth alone, intending to form an alliance against Jhiaxus. Megatron beat Optimus half to death, and Prime only lived because Grimlock disobeyed orders and led an Autobot brigade to Earth. {{storylink|The Gathering Darkness}} When Megatron finally agreed to the alliance, Grimlock showed a great dislike for having to work with him, as well as the insults Megatron threw his way. {{storylink|Escalation!}}<br /> <br /> [[Image:Biggrim.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Me Grimlock work hard!]]<br /> Eventually, the Empire attacked Autobase on Earth, with Grimlock gunning down scores of its troops. The alliance between Autobots and Decepticons gave Grimlock a chance to work alongside two new Rotor Force members, [[Leadfoot]] and [[Manta Ray (G2)|Manta Ray]], both of whom were impressed with Grimlock's style. {{storylink|Total War!}} With the Empire came the Swarm, and with both Optimus and Megatron out of contact, it fell to Grimlock and the Predacon [[Razorclaw (G1)|Razorclaw]] to organise the Transformers in a desperate defensive action. They utilized a combination of shield generators, sky snipers, thermal mines... basically anything they could throw at the Swarm. His plans allowed the Autobots to hold out just long enough — barring a few casualties, like his comrade Slag — for Megatron to arrive with the [[Rheanimum]] that ensured their survival. During this operation, Manta Ray deliberately ignored Razorclaw's orders in favor of Grimlock's and, when the Predacon attempted to execute him for treason, Leadfoot cut Razorclaw in two, securing them as new recruits for the Autobots. In the end, Optimus Prime united with the Swarm and cleansed it of its dark impulses. The Swarm was dispersed, and Grimlock celebrated a victory with his united forces. {{storylink|A Rage in Heaven!}}<br /> <br /> ''In the convention-exclusive story &quot;[[Alignment]]&quot;, which ties up plot threads from ''Generation 2'', Grimlock sacrifices himself in the final battle against the [[Liege Maximo]]. (Despite being written by [[Simon Furman]], this story was not approved by Hasbro and was produced for an unofficial convention, so is non-[[canon]] by rule.)''<br /> <br /> ====Fun Publications ''Classics'' comics====<br /> [[Image:Classics Ultramagnus Springer Grimlock comic.jpg|left|250px|thumb|Me Grimlock like to make self look smart by hanging around bots who no hold binoculars correctly.]]<br /> <br /> He liked to call [[Ultra Magnus (G1)|Ultra Magnus]] &quot;Little Prime&quot;. {{storylink|Games of Deception}}<br /> <br /> BWWWHHHAHAHAHAHAHA.<br /> <br /> {{charstubfiction}}<br /> <br /> ===Transformers PD-Type===<br /> [[Star Saber (Victory)|Star Saber]] recruited Grimlock as backup for a duel with [[Deathsaurus]]. Grimlock became bored watching the two of them fight in the sky, but when Star Saber finally succeeded in knocking Deathsaurus to the ground, Grimlock gnawed on his head while Star Saber looked on, pleased at the outcome of his clever plan. {{storylink|Transformer PD Type|Me Strongest! Me Grimlock!}}<br /> <br /> ===3H ''Reaching the Omega Point'' comics===<br /> Grimlock was among the legendary Transformers summoned from [[J'nwan]] by [[Sandstorm (BW)|Sandstorm]] to help battle [[Shokaract]]. {{storylink|Terminus}}<br /> <br /> ===Universe===<br /> {{charstubfiction}}<br /> <br /> ===Dreamwave comics continuity===<br /> {{bigquote|Me not like Optimus Prime or Autobots that much... but me like you and yours even less!|Grimlock's voice recording on a bomb he left for the [[Seekers]]}}<br /> <br /> Years ago, before the war, Grimlock was part of a cage-fighting arena. He and [[Starscream (G1)|Starscream]] fought beside and against each other on numerous occasions. Starscream believed Grimlock was a natural born killer, but Grimlock really just carried a lot of rage and needed an outlet.<br /> <br /> [[Image:Skidswheeljackgrimlockkupironhidetww.jpg|left|250px|thumb|Me Grimlock great at retreating.]]<br /> When the war began, Grimlock sided with the Decepticons. Then, after a while, he switched sides and went to the Autobots. Nobody is quite sure why or what happened. {{storylink|The War Within Preview}} He eventually became leader of a squad including [[Ironhide (G1)|Ironhide]], [[Kup (G1)|Kup]] and [[Wheeljack (G1)|Wheeljack]]. <br /> <br /> By the time [[Sentinel Prime (G1)|Sentinel Prime]] was killed and a new leader had to be chosen, the Autobots were losing the war, and Grimlock was growing impatient with the [[Council of Ancients|Council of Ancients]]' strategy. Grimlock called a secret meeting with Prowl, Jazz, and his running crew: If the new [[Prime (rank)|Prime]] wasn't up to doing what had to be done, then they'd do it for him—and take the Prime out in the process. {{storylink|The War Within issue 1}}<br /> <br /> Optimus Prime, having defeated a team of Decepticons by himself, still didn't settle Grimlock's nerves. Prime's decision to evacuate Cybertron did it; Grimlock had enough. He left and went to brood by himself. {{storylink|The War Within issue 2}} Starscream and his Seekers dropped by while Grimlock was alone. Starscream baited Grimlock, telling him he was a Decepticon inside and was just in denial. He gave him a choice: go to [[Sector Zero-Six]] and help the Seekers take out the Autobot command post, or warn the post about their arrival. Grimlock, out of spite, instead evacuated the Autobots from the base and left the Decepticons a present: a bomb. {{storylink|The War Within Preview}}<br /> <br /> [[Image:Grimlocktwwmycall.jpg|right|250px|thumb|Me Grimlock squat a lot.]]<br /> <br /> While he was on his way back to Iacon to help with the defense, Prowl ordered him away, instead telling him to go find Optimus Prime. Grimlock decided that it was a good opportunity to give the new Prime a piece of his mind. {{storylink|The War Within issue 3}} While he and the team went deep into Cybertron's core to find Prime, they found out about Megatron's plan to win the war and turn Cybertron into a mobile battle station with which to conquer the universe. Grimlock split up his team: He would go find Optimus Prime, and the rest of the team would shut down the transformation system for Cybertron. To his surprise, Prime abruptly was standing next to him. Prime ordered Grimlock to help him find Megatron. Grimlock shoved his [[energo-sword]] into Prime's hands and gave clear instructions: If Megatron is the problem, then fix it. {{storylink|The War Within issue 5}} When the crisis was over, Grimlock no longer questioned Optimus Prime. He knew that Prime had figured things out, and though he hadn't executed Megatron, he wasn't going to spend his time in the war running away. {{storylink|The War Within issue 6}}<br /> <br /> [[Image:Grimlockultramagnusnoooo.jpg|left|200px|thumb|ME GRIMLOCK DAMN YOU, SALAZAR!]]<br /> During the Dark Ages, Optimus Prime and Megatron were seemingly destroyed in a [[Space bridge|space bridge]] explosion, which created a crack in space through which the ancient being known as [[The Fallen]] emerged. With the loss of Optimus Prime, Grimlock broke off from the Autobots now led by Prowl and formed the [[Lightning Strike Coalition]]. Grimlock was targeted, along with [[Jetfire (G1)|Jetfire]], [[Blitzwing (G1)|Blitzwing]] and [[Hot Spot (G1)|Hot Spot]], by the Fallen, who wished to use their apparently unique [[Spark|Sparks]] to help in his revival of [[Primus]], which would allow Unicron to locate him. {{storylink|Fragmentation}}<br /> <br /> The Fallen sent [[Bludgeon (G1)|Bludgeon]], [[Mindwipe]] and [[Bugly]], who arranged for Grimlock to receive a communication between Jetfire and Shockwave. {{storylink|Devastation (Dreamwave)|Devastation}} Believing Jetfire was intending to defect, Grimlock headed for the meeting. However, when the [[Chaos Trinity]] arrived and captured Jetfire, Grimlock jumped out of the shadows and attacked. The Fallen had to watch his followers take a sound beating. After dispatching the mystics, Grimlock attempted to execute Jetfire. The Autobot scientist was saved only because the Fallen himself soon arrived. {{storylink|Revelation (The Dark Ages)|Revelation}} <br /> <br /> Grimlock being Grimlock, he launched himself at the Fallen, but was completely overwhelmed. {{storylink|Confrontation (issue)|Confrontation}} He woke up later strapped to a table and had to listen to Jetfire trying to convince him to help them both escape. Grimlock broke free with ease and was part of the multi-faction army that attempted to halt the Fallen's plans. {{storylink|Conflagration}}<br /> <br /> Later, Grimlock served both as leader of the Dynobots and the right-hand bot to Ultra Magnus, who had taken control in Optimus' absence and had managed to secure a truce with Shockwave. Grimlock was less than happy about this, partly because he didn't trust the Decepticons, and partly because he had no idea what to with himself in peacetime. He never got to find out, as the truce was betrayed by Starscream's forces, and Grimlock was apparently killed when he dove in front of a shot meant for Magnus. {{storylink|The Age of Wrath issue 1}}<br /> <br /> {{note|Due to [[Dreamwave Productions|Dreamwave]]'s closure, the conclusion of the ''War Within'' series was never seen; as Grimlock appears in the modern-day Dreamwave books, however, he obviously was revived somehow. Really, did you actually think [[Simon Furman|Furman]] would kill off Grimlock?}}<br /> <br /> [[Image:Mefightwithallmestrength.jpg|right|200px|thumb|&quot;Me fight with all me—&quot;? Me Grimlock not Irish!]]<br /> Millennia later, the Ark and the ''[[Nemesis (G1)|Nemesis]]'' left Cybertron in search of new resources to fuel the war, but never returned. Grimlock and the Dynobots followed a [[Insecticon (G1)|group of Decepticons]] to a primitive world that would later be known to them as Earth, all of them looking for the lost Ark. The Dynobots assumed alternate forms similar to Earth's indigenous giant reptiles, dinosaurs, and fought off an attempted ambush by the small crew of Decepticons they had been tracking. {{storylink|Extermination}} Millions of years later in 1984, the other Autobots and Decepticons on Earth awakened and the Great War began anew. The Autobots and humans eventually defeated the Decepticons and all the Transformers were to be sent back to Cybertron on the ''[[Ark II]]''. However, the ship was destroyed during launch due to sabotage by General [[Robert Hallo]] and [[Lazarus|Adam Rook]], in the hopes of recovering the Transformers and reprogramming them to be war machines. {{storylink|Prime Directive issue 1}}<br /> <br /> At some point, Megatron captured the other four Dinobots, a fact which he used as leverage to get Grimlock to turn traitor and join the Decepticons after they were reactivated by Lazarus. {{storylink|Prime Directive issue 3}} Grimlock's only real contribution to the Decepticons was crushing unoccupied cars in [[San Francisco]] {{storylink|Prime Directive issue 5}} and being beaten up, and beaten down by [[Trailbreaker (G1)|Trailbreaker]]. After the Decepticons abandoned him, Optimus Prime offered to take Grimlock back, but he refused, stating circumstances had changed too much. {{storylink|Prime Directive issue 6}} <br /> <br /> [[Image:NewWorldOrder Grimlock Blitzwing.jpg|left|200px|thumb|Me Grimlock silence Blitzwing, then Prime next.]]<br /> Grimlock's apparent allegiance to the Decepticons didn't last very long, though, as [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] soon showed up with his [[Triple Changer]]s. Grimlock's true loyalty became obvious when he stopped Blitzwing from blowing off Optimus's head by grabbing his tank turret and bending it into a pretzel with one hand. After that, Shockwave sent Megatron off to Cybertron, prompting Grimlock to rejoin the Autobots in the ''Ark''. {{storylink|New World Order}} When Optimus' group surrendered to Ultra Magnus, some of the Autobots remained on Earth, Grimlock among them. He travelled to the frozen north, and freed the other Dinobots from Megatron's holding tank. {{storylink|Brothers' Burden}} <br /> <br /> Stealing a Decepticon shuttle, the Dinobots then headed for Cybertron, intending to free Optimus Prime and his group. After a rough landing, they acquired some transportation from Octane and hurried to Iacon. {{storylink|Cold War}} There, Grimlock did his part by leading a massive Dinobot assault on Shockwave's complex, before breaking off to take care of the Decepticon leader himself. Blitzwing again got in his way, however, and Grimlock was forced to battle both, a battle that was going his way until Ultra Magnus shot him in the face. {{storylink|Passive Aggression}} Perceptor repaired the Dinobot command, and Grimlock did his part for the rebellion by giving Hot Rod some back-up. For a third and final time, he fought Blitzwing, this time taking out the Decepticon with ease, grabbing him by the tank turret and throwing him into a [[Guardian robot|Guardian]]. Leaving the main conflict, Grimlock followed Shockwave, Optimus Prime and Ultra Magnus into the citidel, and ended up saving the two Autobots, stating that he'd hate to lose the chance to pay back the &quot;stuffy traitor&quot;. Optimus Prime thanked Primus, but Grimlock said Prime should be thanking ''him''. {{storylink|Revelation (War and Peace)|Revelation}}<br /> <br /> While the main group of Earth Autobots returned, the Dinobots remained on Cybertron to give Ultra Magnus some needed muscle. They were assigned to help Kup fortify the new Autobot bases on Cybertron's moons. {{storylink|The Route of All Evil}}<br /> <br /> {{note|As noted above, any further exploits of Grimlock in the present were cut short due to Dreamwave's bankruptcy.}}<br /> <br /> ===Devil's Due ''G.I. Joe vs the Transformers'' comics===<br /> {{bigquote|It just isn't a proper party without Grimlock around. That guy is nuts|Hot Rod}}<br /> <br /> [[Image:DDGrimlock.jpg|right|120px|thumb|All the grace of an earthquake.]]<br /> Grimlock and his team were transported to Earth's prehistoric past by a malfunctioning [[Teletran 3]]. A joint [[Cobra]]/[[G.I. Joe]] team traveled through a time portal to bring them back. Unfortunately, Shockwave's Decepticons blocked their return. Just as Shockwave's victory appeared complete, [[Roadblock (G.I. Joe)|Roadblock]] and [[Lady Jaye]] successfully opened up the final time portal, and the humans returned, with some heavy artillery in the form of the five Autobots, now reformatted in huge, powerful dinosaur bodies. Grimlock took the lead by knocking Shockwave through a wall, and beating the tar out of the 'Cons, alongside his new Dinobots, their new abilities more than a match for the Decepticon forces. When the Decepticons retreated, Grimlock transformed and requested an audience with Optimus Prime. {{storylink|G.I. Joe vs. the Transformers II issue 4}}<br /> <br /> Grimlock was part of the small team sent to help with the Joes' decommissioning of their Cybertronian mechs. Grimlock was more than a little vocal about his distaste for the post, and lack of interest in the humans. He was, however, willing to help the Joes fight Cobra, when the latter attacked en masse...even if he complained about helping the weak fleshlings. When Cobra Commander was cornered in an underground facility, Grimlock did his part by terrifying him into talking. They were interrupted when [[Serpent O.R.]] appeared, and attempted to take control of both Grimlock, and Roadblock's robot. Grimlock resisted, but Roadblock's robot turned around and punched him in the face. Grimlock responded by ripping its arm off. <br /> <br /> {{charstubfiction}}<br /> <br /> ===Dreamwave ''Transformers/G.I. Joe'' comics===<br /> {{charstubfiction}}<br /> <br /> ===The Beast Within===<br /> In a devastating battle with the Decepticons, Grimlock made the decision to combine with the other Dinobots to form the &quot;[[Beast]]&quot;. {{storylink|The Beast Within}}<br /> <br /> ===IDW Generation 1 continuity===<br /> {{ongoing}}<br /> [[Image:SpotlightShockwave GrimlockSlag trexscan.jpg|left|180px|thumb|Me Grimlock in love!]]<br /> Grimlock is the leader of the D'''y'''nobots, a group of close knit hunters and guardsmen who, in no small part due to Grimlock's influence, prefer to work outside the Autobot rulebook.<br /> <br /> At the start of Megatron's rise to power, the Dynobots turned out to an open casting call for Megatron's underground gladiatorial games, and got a good deal more respect from the Predacons than the other attendees. It turned out to be a recruitment drive for the Decepticon army. What they thought of that is unknown, as Autobot security forces raided the party soon after. {{storylink|Megatron Origin issue 3}}<br /> <br /> He later met Slag again in a brig; Grimlock had angered a field commander but Slag had shot a vice-admiral in the back to con him into a frontal assault, so Slag won. Grimlock thought this Slag guy sounded like a good bloke, and the two of them discussed the formation of their own rule-breaking strike team. {{storylink|Maximum Dinobots issue 2}} <br /> <br /> After [[Shockwave (G1)|Shockwave]] destroyed a cache of energon the Dynobots had been hoarding, causing them severe energon burns and equally severe humiliation, they swore revenge. So, against orders from Optimus Prime, they followed Shockwave when he left Cybertron to stabilize &quot;ultra-energon&quot; deposits he had sent to other worlds as a precaution against the depletion of Cybertron's own energon reserves.<br /> <br /> When Shockwave reached his first destination—Earth, at the end of the last Ice Age—the Dynobots destroyed his ship, but Slag revealed that the high energon levels of the planet would put them in stasis lock, since they hadn't come prepared like Shockwave. Slag then came up with the idea that they should scan the local life forms and create alt-modes based on those animals, but with synthetic flesh coatings to protect against the high levels of energon radiation. Grimlock was<br /> completely against the idea, but since Slag couldn't come up with something better, he relented. However, he refused to take on the form of the weak mammalians that dominated the planet, demanding &quot;something with some... bite.&quot; Scanning fossil deposits, Slag found the remains of some [[Dinosaur|extinct reptilian animals]] and brought up a holographic representation of one to see if Grimlock approved. What popped up was a Tyrannosaurus Rex, which Grimlock seemed to fall in love with the moment he saw it. The choice made, Grimlock took the Tyrannosaur as his altmode and had Slag find more dinosaurs as templates for the rest of the Dynobots.<br /> <br /> [[Image:SpotlightShockwave Grimlock stasislock.jpg|right|180px|thumb|One, two three... Red light!]]<br /> On teleporting down to the planet's surface to confront Shockwave, they gained an initial advantage, as Shockwave's logic was unable to comprehend the effort and risks they had taken for their revenge. However, when Shockwave recognized this weakness, he shut down his logic processors and executed a &quot;rage&quot; program to enable him to operate on pure instinct. He shrugged off the Dynobots' attacks and beat them severely, ending the assault by burning off their organic coatings.<br /> Unable to accept another defeat, Grimlock transformed to robot mode and fought against his imminent [[Stasis lock|stasis lock]] to no avail.<br /> <br /> However, before leaving the Dynobots' ship, he had enabled a &quot;dead man's switch&quot; designed to take Shockwave with them if they were defeated. When he entered stasis lock, this failsafe activated, firing on a nearby dormant volcano and causing an eruption which buried Shockwave and the Dynobots under ash and lava. Thousands of years later, their entombed bodies were discovered by a human archaeological team. {{storylink|Spotlight: Shockwave}}<br /> <br /> Thousands of years later in 2007, the [[human]] organization [[Skywatch]] took over jurisdiction of the dig site and excavated Shockwave and the Dynobots. {{storylink|Escalation issue 5}}<br /> <br /> When the [[Reapers]] attacked the Decepticons, Skywatch decided to awaken the most advanced of their &quot;Eureka Six&quot;, which turned out to be Grimlock. {{storylink|Devastation issue 5}}<br /> <br /> [[Image:GrimlockIDWRex.jpg|left|200px|thumb|Go go Grimzilla!]]<br /> Grimlock's reactivation was sabotaged by an agent of the [[Machination]] and when he awoke, they had no control over him. He escaped the facility, confused and angry. His escape was engineered by the head of the Machination, [[Scorponok (G1)|Scorponok]], who wanted Grimlock to join him in the Machination plot to dominate the Earth by running interference and delaying Megatron's plans long enough for the Machination to put their plans into action.<br /> <br /> [[Image:SpotlightGrimlock punch KLUNG.jpg|right|250px|thumb|Six foot, seven foot, eight foot, Punch!&lt;br&gt; Daylight come and me Grimlock wanna go home.]]<br /> <br /> Grimlock considered for a second, but refused the offer for two reasons: he could turn Scorponok in to Ultra Magnus for redemption, and as revenge for Scorponok once robbing an installation the Dynobots were guarding. The two fought and Scorponok quickly gained the upper hand, mostly due to his [[Headmaster (technology)|Headmaster]] upgrade. Grimlock was able to activate his transporter chip, which beamed him back to his ship, the ''[[Skyfire (ship)|Skyfire]]'', which was buried deep in ice somewhere. Grimlock hoped he could use the ship to find the other Dynobots. {{storylink|Spotlight: Grimlock}}<br /> <br /> [[Image:GrimlockMaxDino01.jpg|left|200px|thumb|Me Grimlock's roar sound funny...]]<br /> <br /> Finding himself trapped, both on a useless ship and in a less than inconspicuous form, Grimlock was forced to try and contact some of his<br /> less reputable acquaintances in an attempt to get the ''[[Skyfire (ship)|Skyfire]]'' into some sort of working order. Meanwhile, the Machination had tracked him down and had sent their [[Sunstreaker clone|Tsunami Unit]] to apprehend him. Grimlock's early warning system detected them, and he circled round as they began to attack, brusting from the ice and transforming. The battle very quickly turned in his favor with four of the clones falling in the opening moments. The surviving Headmasters were rather shaken, but managed to fulfill their mission: attach a device which would [[Orbital bounce|orbital bounce]] him to Nevada, near Skywatch's base. Grimlock materialized in the middle of a busy street in [[Fallon]]. As a car crashed into his toe, he realized things had just gone from bad to worse. {{storylink|Maximum Dinobots issue 1}}<br /> <br /> [[Image:GrimlockSludgeSwoopMaxDino02.jpg|right|250px|thumb|Hey... he stole that move from Shockwave!]]<br /> <br /> He knew Scorponok was trying to deliberately set him up as a rampaging monster, but ''didn't'' expect his fellow Dynobots to be sent to take him down! He was able to fight them all off but unable to break their reprogramming by appealing to their team ethos ... and when they ''did'' regain sentience and memory, it was because Scorponok let them so they could get pissed off at the knowledge Grimlock set up a &quot;dead man's switch&quot; ''without'' informing them. Grimlock's defence was that such a sneaky, amoral and rule-breaking act was what the Dynobots were ''all about'', which surprisingly worked. While saying this, he grudgingly and with much moaning saved a human from burning to death. {{storylink|Maximum Dinobots issue 2}} He had a talk with Swoop, who felt that Grimlock had betrayed him and the others, and was only thinking about himself. He flew off in disgust, but returned to help Grimlock and the others slag lots of Sunstreaker clones. {{storylink|Maximum Dinobots issue 3}}<br /> <br /> <br /> {{charstubfiction}}<br /> {{storylink|Maximum Dinobots issue 4}}<br /> {{storylink|Maximum Dinobots issue 5}}<br /> <br /> ===IDW ''Beast Wars'' continuity===<br /> {{bigquote|Shadows lengthen. The twilight of the Cybertronian race gathers. The end is nigh.|[[Shokaract]]}}<br /> {{bigquote|Reminds me of the good ol' days.|Grimlock}}<br /> <br /> Grimlock was less than thrilled about being forced to go through the [[Maximal]] downsizing. To add insult to injury, the resulting peace meant he had no outlet for his warlike tendencies. As such, he frequently volunteered for any dangerous, potentially risky or outright suicidal missions, and when forced on to a science or exploration vessel, he preferred to spend the entire trip in stasis, rather then dealing with the prolonged inactivity. He has a personalized reformatting chip that deliberately seeks out only the strongest, deadliest beast modes (alive or extinct) on a planet. {{storylink|Transformers Comic issue 14}}<br /> <br /> [[Image:Grimlock Vs Spittor.jpg|right|150px|thumb|Me Grimlock LOVE frogs' legs!]]<br /> <br /> Grimlock was among the ''[[Axalon (BW)|Axalon]]'''s protoforms when the ship crashed on Earth. When [[Razorbeast]] and [[Optimus Minor]] were attempting to &quot;rescue&quot; [[Megatron (BW)|Megatron]] from [[Magmatron]], the [[Predacon (BW)|Predacons]]<br /> detected a spark signature that was apparently off the scale, big and mad. Grimlock showed up and acted as the perfect distraction, making ''very'' short work of the Predacons. (Apparently, he was in a very bad mood after waking up and took it out on the Preds.) Magmatron offered Grimlock the chance to withdraw, and when the incredulous Grimlock refused, the Predacon general attacked. Magmatron narrowly arose as the victor by use of his triple beast modes. Grimlock was knocked out, but later helped to construct the Maximals' new base. {{storylink|The Gathering issue 4}}<br /> <br /> Later, when [[Prowl II|Prowl]] remarked they had work to do on Earth, with [[Ravage (G1)|Ravage]]'s Predacon militia still a threat, [[Wolfang (Maximal)|Wolfang]] reminded him that they had Grimlock on their side. {{storylink|The Ascending issue 1}} The bot in question was patrolling the jungle around the base at the time and bumped into the three-mech team of [[Manterror]], [[Retrax]] and [[Snapper]]. He only noticed Manterror and Retrax however, as Snapper was being crushed under his right foot at the time. While Retrax rolled for his life, Manterror had to face Grimlock on his own, and lost his wings for his trouble. This little group turned out to be a distraction, however, intended to lure the Maximals' big gun away while Ravage led an all-out strike on the base.<br /> <br /> [[Image:GrimlockConvoys.JPG|left|250px|thumb|Me Grimlock have to pull newbies out of fire.]]<br /> The former Dinobot wasn't about to be left out in the cold, however, and he returned to base ready for &quot;the main course,&quot; which consisted of crushing [[Spittor (BW)|Spittor]] under his foot and tearing apart [[Iguanus (BW)|Iguanus]] and half a dozen other Predacons. Still, even with him and [[Torca]] working overtime, things might have gone poorly without [[Lio Convoy]]'s arrival. {{storylink|The Ascending issue 2}}<br /> <br /> When Lio Convoy and Ravage led a joint force to stop [[Shokaract]], Grimlock accompanied them. The former Autobot and former Decepticon had a moment of antagonism when the fight started. But once the battle got underway, Grimlock fell in with the Convoys. As Shokaract declared the end of the Cybertronian race, Grimlock seemed to reminisce, even as he transformed to his beast mode and led a charge. He was one of the survivors, although presumably, he would be a victim of Megatron's [[Transformation virus]]. {{storylink|The Ascending issue 4}}<br /> <br /> <br /> ==Toys==<br /> :''Main article: [[Grimlock (G1)/toys]]''<br /> <br /> ==Merchandise==<br /> :''Main article: [[Grimlock (G1)/toys|Grimlock (G1) merchandise]]''<br /> <br /> ==Trivia==<br /> [[Image:Grimlock Natural History Museum.JPG|right|150px|thumb|Me Grimlock BIG person, so they put Grimlock's statue in Natural History Museum.]]<br /> * There is a Grimlock toy placed in the showcase in the dinosaur section of the [[wikipedia:Natural_History_Museum|Natural History Museum]] in [[London]], [[United Kingdom]].<br /> <br /> * Grimlock is generally regarded as [[Simon Furman]]'s signature character.<br /> <br /> * According to [[Gone but Not Forgotten!|Marvel UK #107]]'s letters page, Grimlock considers the 23rd of August 1986 his birthday. It's the date he took over the Transformers letters page. He also thinks he could take out Soundwave in a fight.<br /> <br /> * Grimlock's function is Lieutenant Commander instead of Dinobot Commander on his Pretender Classic and Alternator toys. Lieutenant Commander is [[Sky Lynx (G1)|Sky Lynx]]'s rank. Deal with it, egobot.<br /> <br /> * Grimlock once had the words '''Big Grim''' scrawled on his right shoulder. {{storylink|Dark Shadows!}}<br /> <br /> * Grimlock's beast mode in ''The Gathering'' does not actually match any dromaeosaur on record, seeming to combine elements of both the dromaeosaur body type with that of a carnosaur or tyrannosaurid. A fuzor, perhaps? The Titan comic profile in issue 14 seems to have tried to rectify this by calling him a Megaraptor. Which is fine...except Megaraptor was recently revealed as a misidentified carnosaur. Let's face it, a wizard did it.<br /> <br /> * In &quot;[[The Ascending issue 3]]&quot;, Grimlock is shown fighting in his robot mode. His tail weapon appears to take the form of a blaster. In Issue 4, he is the only Transformer, Maximal or Predacon, the same height as the two Convoys.<br /> <br /> [[Image:PatLeeGrimlockHead.jpg|right|180px|thumb|Same bot time, same bot channel.]]<br /> * Grimlock has his very own fanboy, [[Noise]], who someday wants to grow up and be just like him—a godless killing machine.<br /> <br /> * Grimlock's speech impediment is caused by varying conditions, depending on continuity. To explain the difference in UK/US writing styles, Marvel explained it as a ruse. In the cartoon it was a result of primitive thought processes. In Dreamwave MTMTE, it is confirmed as the result of a virus, while IDW considers it caused by a damaged vocal processor. Devil's Due didn't bother explaining, they just got him in the &quot;Me Grimlock's&quot; during part three.<br /> <br /> * In every instance in which Grimlock is drawn by [[Pat Lee]], Grimlock's eyes/visor protrude past his [[Mouthplate|faceplate]], rather than sitting behind it like normal. This becomes especially pronounced (and comical) towards the end of Dreamwave's [[Prime Directive|first mini-series]].<br /> <br /> {{-}}<br /> <br /> ==References==<br /> {{reflist}}<br /> <br /> ==External links==<br /> *[http://www.tfu.info/1985/Autobot/Grimlock/grimlock.htm Grimlock at TFU.info]<br /> *[http://www.ntfa.net/universe/english/index.php?act=view&amp;char=Grimlock Grimlock's Universe profile at NTFA.net]<br /> <br /> [[Category:Action Masters]]<br /> [[Category:Alternators]]<br /> [[Category:Attacktix]]<br /> [[Category:Autobot leaders]]<br /> [[Category:Beast Wars characters]]<br /> [[Category:Classics characters]]<br /> [[Category:Combiners]]<br /> [[Category:Dinobots]]<br /> [[Category:Pretenders]]<br /> [[Category:Generation 1 characters]]<br /> [[Category:Generation 2 characters]]<br /> [[Category:Headmasters characters]]<br /> [[Category: Henkei! Henkei! characters]]<br /> [[Category:Kmart exclusives]]<br /> [[Category:Letters page answerers]]<br /> [[Category:Mail order items]]<br /> [[Category:Maximals]]<br /> [[Category:MyClone]]<br /> [[Category:Robot Heroes]]<br /> [[Category:Titanium Series]]<br /> [[Category:Turncoats]]<br /> [[Category:Universe characters]]</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=Talk:Brawl_(Movie)&diff=315757 2009-06-20T00:10:20Z

<p>Suki Brits: /* Front Image */</p> <hr /> <div>==Not Megatron comment==<br /> <br /> what inspired that? [[USER:GWolf]]<br /> :Many people on various boards who can't get over the fact that movie Megs is neither a gun nor a tank. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:20, 12 April 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::More specifically, the ones who are ''so'' incapable of getting over it that they form elaborate conspiracy theories about how Megatron will get a tank altmode during the movie and Hasbro decided to call the corresponding toy &quot;Brawl&quot; to keep it a surprise. --[[User:Andrusi|Andrusi]] 03:29, 21 April 2007 (UTC)<br /> :::those were the days, man. Almost makes me think a &quot;pre-release theories&quot; section on the movie page wouldn't be all that out out of place. Fits right in there with the theory that the human cast list was actually a secret robot voice actor list, with clever codenames like &quot;Epps&quot; to put people off the trail that he's obviously Jazz.--[[User:Carrion|Carrion]] 02:03, 21 March 2008 (UTC)<br /> Brawl could have easily been named Overkill, if you ask me. His toy has an amount of weapons that border on goofy: His spring loaded cannon on his right arm, the fact that it can swivel 180 to reveal a more accurate to his design Gatling Gun molding, his behind the back secondary guns, his shoulder mounted missile launchers, his twin claw, AND the anti-personal cannon molded onto the twin claw's base. Sheeeeeesh. --[[User:Terrocon Blot|Terrocon Blot]] 19:30, 10 June 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> <br /> ==Devastator==<br /> <br /> apparently, when they screened the movie in australia, little thing became apparent. His name's Devestator?<br /> <br /> Opened, or screened? Because if it was a pre-screening, it may have been a rough cut of the movie-- several decepticons' names were changes later in production, and Devastator was an early name for Brawl.<br /> <br /> You can count on this being corrected for the actual film release. Roberto Orci has [http://boards.transformersmovie.com/showpost.php?p=368555&amp;postcount=4479 commented on it.] --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 04:20, 13 June 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> They called it both a special screening event and a premiere. We rock. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 08:15, 13 June 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> Hey I just saw the movie on June 29th in a sneak preview in columbus ohio and they called him Devastator. And it seemed like scenes were missing from the movie<br /> <br /> :I'm a little confused as to why &quot;Devastator&quot; isn't noted as a mistaken when the only place it appears is a single subtitle line in the actual movie whilst &quot;Brawl&quot; appears on... everything else ever. I mean, a Michael Bay forced mistake is still a mistake.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 03:52, 4 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::&quot;Forced mistake&quot;? If he intended to call the tank Devastator and he called it Devastator, I'm not seeing the mistake. It's clearly different from every other appearance, but unless we're going to make a big deal about how purple cartoon Rumble is a mistake, there's no reason to make it sound like someone didn't know what his name was. &quot;Brawl&quot; is clearly the most parsimonious name for the page, but that doesn't change the fact that his name is Devastator in the movie. -[[User:67.149.204.113|67.149.204.113]] 04:44, 4 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Heh, until the DVD release. I don't see Hasbro sitting by on that one when they've got Brawl stamped on all the merchandise.--[[User:MCRG|MCRG]] 04:46, 4 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::: Brawl is the better name, they should save devastator for the sequel.<br /> <br /> The cinema in Minnesota I just saw the movie at had the 'Devastator' cut. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:31, 5 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :Wait, what do you mean? Do you mean &quot;cut&quot; as in &quot;the name Devastator was removed&quot; or &quot;cut&quot; as in &quot;the cut of the film that has Devastator,&quot; which would be the same as what everyone else has already seen? --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 01:40, 5 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::The version where he's called Devastator. ...is there ''no'' version where he's called Brawl like the said or something? Now you've confused me. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:43, 5 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :::Nope. It's Devastator in every version.<br /> <br /> :::Of course, it's still wrong. But there is no cut that says Brawl. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 01:49, 5 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::It says &quot;Brawl&quot; in the credits, though. And as MCRG said, with &quot;Brawl&quot; on all the packaging I'm sure it'll be changed in time for the DVD release. - [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 02:40, 5 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> So, uh, twice now people have removed the &quot;Brawl (here called &quot;Devastator&quot;)&quot; bit from the movie summary with no explanation at all. I think that phrasing is important for the sake of clarification. Otherwise there's no real clear reason for him to be referred to as Devastator in the article as it's never actually stated before there that the name Devastator appears in the movie. Can somebody please justify this? --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 21:44, 10 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :It was apparently LV that removed it. After it was put back today, he asked if he was alone in thinking it should be removed. I said it was a little weird to suddenly call the character Devastator with no explanation, and he seemed to give up immediately. I don't recall him actually justifying it, but I think it'd be easiest for you to ask. /:) --[[User:Sntint|Sntint]] 03:41, 11 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Regarding current edit:<br /> I don't think we should specifically denounce one name over the other, especially in the movie fiction section. Would the &quot;Brawl (here called &quot;Devastator&quot;)&quot; thing work for the first mention, then just use pronouns for the rest of this specific section? [[User:Atomic spaceman|Atomic spaceman]] 21:15, 12 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :I don't think it's really denouncing- he was originally named Devastator, but his name was ''later changed'' to Brawl, it just didn't get fixed int he movie.<br /> :Somehow I feel like that sounds ''less'' than, say, Jetfire begin called Skyfire int he Sunbow Cartoon. (I may change my tune if it's not fixed on the DVD) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:08, 12 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> For the film's fiction subsection I have changed his name to Devastator. It's the only name he is given in that story, and the director of the film has apparently said he prefers that name. To me, that makes it his name. He simply has a different name in the film than in all his other appearances. Further: there is still a mention in the trivia that he is credited as Brawl. However, the last time I saw the movie with LV and Walky, they both scanned the voice credits (I was looking elsewhere) and didn't see him credited ''at all'', under either name. Can any editors personally attest to have seen the credit with their own eyes, or are we just repeating Some Guy's claim that it's there? --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 22:35, 12 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Old edit of mine from early June for the Sydney June 12th premiere, where the voice actors were finally revealed. IIRC it was posted by one of the people attending and I forgot to edit it out, and I didn't bother hanging around to watch the voice credits myself. Btw, do the Decepticons EVER refer to Sam as anything other than Ladiesman217? That's why I refer to him as such in all the Decepticon writeups I've done. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 23:18, 12 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===DVD===<br /> Well, the DVD has been released in some places already, clips are flooding YouTube. So, I just wanna take the time to ask this question. Does he still call himself Devastator in the DVD release? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 05:57, 12 October 2007 (UTC)<br /> :According to a thread on the official TF movie forum, yes. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 08:19, 12 October 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Image==<br /> Does anyone have an actual image of Brawl in robot mode? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 16:40, 10 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :No, he never appeared in any promotional materials to my knowledge, and is BARELY seen in only some of the tv spots. The first time we saw his movie design (and not just his toy) was that leaked concept design sheet at TFW2005. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 16:44, 10 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::He shows up in various heavily illustrated material, but in group shots. Let me think...He's in the movie comic adaptation, and various storybooks. Meet The Decepticons (group shot), Movie Storybook (likely same), and so forth. If you want a render, it seems unlikely.<br /> :::Doublechecked various books. Seems like the best image of Brawl we'll get is his first appearance in bot mode from the Movie adapation comic. Beyond that, he's either lost in crowds, or not drawn well. Or cropped badly. --[[User:Terrocon Blot|Terrocon Blot]] 21:25, 12 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::::The game guide has a pretty large promo render of Brawl. There are a couple screen shots clipping him, but I'll see what I can do. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 21:29, 12 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :::::So now that Brawl's gotten a released to the public concept art, we gonna ditch the CG one from the game, or keep using him? --[[User:Terrocon Blot|Terrocon Blot]] 01:14, 19 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::::::There is? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:54, 19 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> Actually, there are better picture of this guy. They can be found on Ben Procter's website. (The one with all the movie designs.) [[User:Crosshairs-1|Crosshairs-1]] 11:55, 2 February 2008 (UTC)Crosshairs-1<br /> <br /> == Devastator and Michael Bay ==<br /> <br /> &quot;When queried, director Michael Bay said he had always preferred Devastator and that it is not a mistake.&quot;<br /> <br /> I'd like to see a source for this. 'Cuz for everyone who brings this up, there's someone who will claim that Bay confirmed it as an error that will get fixed for the DVD. So unless someone can cite a source, I'm inclined to call this (as well as the &quot;fixed for the DVD&quot; version) a &quot;fan rumor&quot;.<br /> <br /> Oh, and &quot;I seem to recall&quot; or &quot;I think I read somewhere&quot; is not a source.--[[User:Nevermore|Nevermore]] 22:47, 29 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> : Then fix it yourself. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:17, 30 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::Well, I can find it I think. Also, anyone remember his &quot;If I wanna paint my house green&quot; thing over flmaes and Prime s<br /> <br /> ==Quote==<br /> If someone can SOURCE that &quot;stupid simple&quot; quote, I'd rather use that. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 03:03, 6 February 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Better image? ==<br /> <br /> His main image is a stupid &quot;Cyber Slammer&quot; because....? [[User:LordHigher,MoreAnnoyingStarscream|LordHigher,MoreAnnoyingStarscream]] 16:38, 21 February 2008 (UTC)<br /> :Because it's so out of character for a monster like Brawl to look this cute. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 16:45, 21 February 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::Besides, they never released a single publicity image of him. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 08:38, 22 February 2008 (UTC)<br /> :::I swapped the Cyber Slammer image with the concept art pic at the bottom of the article. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] 09:44, 22 February 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::::Well, I guess you suck, then. -[[User:LV|LV]] 13:54, 22 February 2008 (UTC)<br /> :::::What the hell? It's concept art. Cyber Slammer art is the only official art of him on this page. I'm changing it back. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 15:03, 22 February 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::::::More importantly, the Cyber Slammer picture is hilarious. --[[User:Steve-o|Steve-o]] 01:39, 25 February 2008 (UTC)<br /> I think it's much better now!Maybe.--[[User:Telex|Telex]] 02:01, 3 March 2008 (UTC)<br /> :It wasn't. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 02:06, 3 March 2008 (UTC)<br /> Now?--[[User:Telex|Telex]] 02:15, 3 March 2008 (UTC)<br /> :NO --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 02:25, 3 March 2008 (UTC)<br /> How Bow Now?-[[User:Telex|Telex]] 02:39, 3 March 2008 (UTC)<br /> I changed the image to a video game one. I would have used the concept one, but I can't find anywhere. '''DO NOT CHANGE IT BACK. I WILL BAN YOU WHO CHANGES IT BACK.''' Read my argument against the Cyber Slammers image on my user page. [[User:G1MA|G1MA]] 00:51, 18 April 2008 (UTC)G1MA<br /> :That's...a bad way to get people on your side. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 00:56, 18 April 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Better Image II: The Serious Discussion===<br /> May I ask why we don't use the video game image as his main image? It's a good, full body image, we use a game image as [[Tidal Wave (Armada)|Tidal Wave]]'s main image, and we have the Cyber Slammer image on the [[Package art#Transformers (2007)|package art]] page making the same joke. So seriously, why not? -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 02:08, 18 April 2008 (UTC)<br /> : 1) Because the image is awesome.<br /> : 2) I don't see the same joke, sir. <br /> : 3) It should be obvious after all this that you're outnumbered on the issue. Why belabor it? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 02:27, 18 April 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::I'm not gonna make a fuss over it, but -- considering the huge stink we make for [[Megatron (Movie)|some characters]] over how [[:Image:Movie_Wreckage_Traitor.jpg|such-and-such picture]] doesn't have &quot;the right body&quot;, often haggling over some minor differences that nobody's gonna even notice, it's a little baffling to me how this pic has stayed up as the main image. FUNNY &gt; information? -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 16:36, 18 April 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Because I believe only four things, Walky:<br /> #The Autobots will rule Cybertron.<br /> #Female Transformers work better if you don't over exert yourself trying to explain them.<br /> #Megatron is better as a tank. It's more mobile than the gun, having him as a flier makes Starscream that much more useless, and it gives the fusion cannon a role in alt-mode.<br /> #And Brawl will finally have a real main image! -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 15:49, 18 April 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Regarding that one guy who made those three arguments:<br /> <br /> : 1)It is '''not''' awesome.<br /> : 2)The joke is there, sir.<br /> : 3)Like I care. <br /> <br /> I'd change the image, but I can't find the concept art. [[User:G1MA|G1MA]] 19:45, 6 May 2008 (UTC)G1MA<br /> <br /> :Dude, ItsWalky is one of the ''administrators'' of this Wiki. As for the concept art, I believe I asked for it to be deleted, because troublemakers kept moving it up as the main pic in defiance of this wiki's regular members and administrative staff. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 20:15, 6 May 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> OK, then we're in trouble. If an immature moron who thinks putting those dumb images up there are funny is an ''administrator'', then this wiki is doomed [[User:G1MA|G1MA]] 23:57, 8 May 2008 (UTC)G1MA<br /> :So essentially, you're saying that this Wiki is [[Ruined FOREVER]]? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 00:09, 9 May 2008 (UTC)<br /> :I would just like to point out the hillarity of someone pointing out that someone is being immature on a wiki devoted to cartoons and children's toys. Just throwing that out there. - [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 00:18, 9 May 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::Okay, now that the guy has been banned, can we please get back to the real discussion? Will someone give me a legitimate reason as to why we cannont use Brawl's game image as his main image? As Repowers said, information is supposed to be more important than humor. If someone can just give me a decent answer (one that does not include use of inappropriate language, doubts about my masculinity, threats of administrative retaliation, insinuations about my intelligence, or insults directed at members of my family), I'll drop it. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 00:24, 9 May 2008 (UTC)<br /> :::How is Brawl's packaging art not informative? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:27, 9 May 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::::It's the package art from his Cyber Slammer toy, which looks nothing like any of the other toys OR his appearance in the movie and comics. People coming to the page not already knowing about the character could be confused or even put off by it. - [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 00:42, 9 May 2008 (UTC)<br /> :::::As I recall, the reasoning behind using this image was basically &quot;Brawl is supposed to be such a hulking destructive monster, therefore it's ironically funny to use his cutest possible toy.&quot; I think a major problem with that is that what this character is &quot;supposed to be&quot; really doesn't exist, since he's a nobody who did very little and about whom very little is popularly known. He appeared in the movie for all of 4 minutes--under a different name. I can see the humor potential in showing Grimlock's art being a childish unintelligent scribble, precisely because it feeds off those character traits everyone knows he has. But when there's already so little to go on about Brawlastator, I think it's harder to justify. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 00:54, 9 May 2008 (UTC)<br /> &quot;Brawlastator&quot;-funny. Anyway, I was wondering, Why all the fuss? If all ''the administators'' want this image to be the Cyber Slammers one, why don't these people just accept they will not be able to get that image changed for good without using NSA to control the Web? Why make a fuss over the main image. It's a once in a while funny joke, and if you're so lazy that you're just going to look at a picture at the top of the page, and not read anything, you deserve to be confused. [[User:JimCappuccino|JimCappuccino]] 20:15, 12 May 2008 (UTC)JimCappuccino<br /> :Why not just hold a vote or something? That should settle it once and for all. (And yes, I saw [[User:Inferno'sQueen|Inferno'sQueen]] has previously suggested it, so please don't acuse me of being his sock. [[User:Wreck-Gar Rocks!|Wreck-Gar Rocks!]] 16:56, 13 May 2008 (UTC)<br /> I have come to a conclusion-if this issue doen't resolve itself, this wiki will tear itself apart! No but seriously, a vote would be a good idea. [[User:JimCappuccino|JimCappuccino]] 23:31, 27 May 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Weapons ==<br /> <br /> What weapons he used and how many weapons he have other han his claw that it stab Jazz with?([[User:MARV 2000|MARV 2000]] 23:58, 10 March 2008 (UTC))<br /> :Well, he has the missle pods, main cannon, those two smaller cannons... I think maybe a machine gun or two. Basically he's a walking weapons platform. [[User:Semysane|Semysane]] 03:30, 11 March 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Seperate Devastator page? ==<br /> <br /> Issue three of Titan's Movie comic has the editor refer to Devastator as being a seperate character who just ''looks'' like Brawl. Does this mean we should create a seperate page for the fiction's where he's Devastator, or should we stick with both on the same page on the principle that it's funner that way? [[USER:Charles RB]] 10:50, 30th March 2009 (GMT)<br /> :Trivia note. We acknowledge it, then point out what a massive fucking headache it would entail if Brawl AND Devastator are running around. [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 20:09, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Front Image ==<br /> <br /> How about scanning the concept CGI work on the internet and crop it so the robot mode is only there?<br /> <br /> :The sole reason for using the Cyber Slammer image is because ItsWalky finds it funny. I'm not entirely sure of the joke, but the other admins back him up. And it's not like there's much to go on for him, there's only two other full-body (second Titan and the video game) and officially the Titan one is of a different guy. -- [[User:Charles RB|Charles RB]], 01:02, 19 June 2009 (GMT)<br /> :: Look, can we stop with this &quot;it's only up because Walky finds it funny&quot; thing? I am far from the only one. Considering someone who is not me just yanked the super-retarded snark-template off, I think we can put that to fucking rest. Find some other pretend reason to take it down. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 20:09, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Honestly, I'm gonna go on record here for the first time as saying I've ''never'' liked the use of the Cyber Slammers image, and if we can find something else, I wanna swap it out. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 20:05, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I think it's awesome and it should stay. [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 20:08, 19 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I would like to go on the record as saying that there is no other official art that captures the essence of his character nearly as clearly, and I am strongly opposed to changing it to something else. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 20:10, 19 June 2009 (EDT)</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.js&diff=314892 2009-06-18T03:46:47Z

<p>Suki Brits: </p> <hr /> <div>/* Blatantly based on Wookiepedia's ShowEras */ <br /> function showTitles(className) { <br /> if(typeof(SKIP_ERAS) != 'undefined' &amp;&amp; SKIP_ERAS) <br /> return; <br /> <br /> var titleDiv = document.getElementById(className); <br /> <br /> if(titleDiv == null || titleDiv == undefined) <br /> return; <br /> <br /> var cloneNode = titleDiv.cloneNode(true); <br /> var firstHeading = getFirstHeading(); <br /> firstHeading.insertBefore(cloneNode, firstHeading.childNodes[0]); <br /> cloneNode.style.display = &quot;block&quot;; <br /> }// END JavaScript title rewrite <br /> <br /> function getFirstHeading(){ <br /> var a = getElementsByClassName(document.getElementById('content'), 'h1', 'firstHeading'); <br /> return a[0]; <br /> }<br /> <br /> function tfwiki_hooks() {<br /> showTitles('title-factionicons');<br /> }<br /> <br /> addOnloadHook(tfwiki_hooks);<br /> <br /> /* ========== Upload preview ==========<br /> ========== -BEGIN- ==========<br /> ========== CODE IS UNREVIEWED ========== */<br /> <br /> <br /> /**<br /> * Live preview script for MediaWiki<br /> *<br /> * 2007-04-25 – Nikerabbit:<br /> * Worked around text cutoff in mozilla-based browsers<br /> * Support for categories<br /> */<br /> <br /> <br /> lpIdPreview = 'wikiPreview';<br /> lpIdCategories = 'catlinks';<br /> lpIdDiff = 'wikiDiff';<br /> <br /> /*<br /> * Returns XMLHttpRequest based on browser support or null<br /> */<br /> function openXMLHttpRequest() {<br /> if( window.XMLHttpRequest ) {<br /> return new XMLHttpRequest();<br /> } else if( window.ActiveXObject &amp;&amp; navigator.platform != 'MacPPC' ) {<br /> // IE/Mac has an ActiveXObject but it doesn't work.<br /> return new ActiveXObject(&quot;Microsoft.XMLHTTP&quot;);<br /> } else {<br /> return null;<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> /**<br /> * Returns true if could open the request,<br /> * false otherwise (eg no browser support).<br /> */<br /> function lpDoPreview(text, postUrl) {<br /> lpRequest = openXMLHttpRequest();<br /> if( !lpRequest ) return false;<br /> <br /> lpRequest.onreadystatechange = lpStatusUpdate;<br /> lpRequest.open(&quot;POST&quot;, postUrl, true);<br /> <br /> var postData = 'wpTextbox1=' + encodeURIComponent(text);<br /> lpRequest.setRequestHeader(&quot;Content-Type&quot;, &quot;application/x-www-form-urlencoded&quot;);<br /> lpRequest.send(postData);<br /> return true;<br /> }<br /> <br /> function lpStatusUpdate() {<br /> <br /> /* We are at some stage of loading */<br /> if (lpRequest.readyState &gt; 0 &amp;&amp; lpRequest.readyState &lt; 4) {<br /> notify(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageLoading));<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* Not loaded yet */<br /> if(lpRequest.readyState != 4) {<br /> return;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* We got response, bug it not what we wanted */<br /> if( lpRequest.status != 200 ) {<br /> var keys = new Array();<br /> keys[0] = lpRequest.status;<br /> keys[1] = lpRequest.statusText;<br /> window.alert(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageError, keys));<br /> lpShowNormalPreview();<br /> return;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* All good */<br /> dismissNotify(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageReady), 750);<br /> <br /> <br /> var XMLObject = lpRequest.responseXML.documentElement;<br /> <br /> <br /> /* Work around Firefox (Gecko?) limitation where it shows only the first 4096<br /> * bytes of data. Ref: http://www.thescripts.com/forum/thread482760.html<br /> */<br /> XMLObject.normalize();<br /> <br /> var previewElement = XMLObject.getElementsByTagName('preview')[0];<br /> var categoryElement = XMLObject.getElementsByTagName('category')[0];<br /> <br /> /* Hide the active diff if it exists */<br /> var diff = document.getElementById(lpIdDiff);<br /> if ( diff ) { diff.style.display = 'none'; }<br /> <br /> /* Inject preview */<br /> var previewContainer = document.getElementById( lpIdPreview );<br /> if ( previewContainer &amp;&amp; previewElement ) {<br /> previewContainer.innerHTML = previewElement.firstChild.data;<br /> previewContainer.style.display = 'block';<br /> } else {<br /> /* Should never happen */<br /> window.alert(i18n(wgLivepreviewMessageFailed));<br /> lpShowNormalPreview();<br /> return;<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> /* Inject categories */<br /> var categoryContainer = document.getElementById( lpIdCategories );<br /> if ( categoryElement &amp;&amp; categoryElement.firstChild ) {<br /> if ( categoryContainer ) {<br /> categoryContainer.innerHTML = categoryElement.firstChild.data;<br /> /* May be hidden */<br /> categoryContainer.style.display = 'block';<br /> } else {<br /> /* Just dump them somewhere */<br /> /* previewContainer.innerHTML += categoryElement.firstChild.data;*/<br /> }<br /> } else {<br /> /* Nothing to show, hide old data */<br /> if ( categoryContainer ) {<br /> categoryContainer.style.display = 'none';<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> }<br /> <br /> function lpShowNormalPreview() {<br /> var fallback = document.getElementById('wpPreview');<br /> if ( fallback ) { fallback.style.display = 'inline'; }<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> // TODO: move elsewhere<br /> /* Small non-intrusive popup which can be used for example to notify the user<br /> * about completed AJAX action. Supports only one notify at a time.<br /> */<br /> function notify(message) {<br /> var notifyElement = document.getElementById('mw-js-notify');<br /> if ( !notifyElement ) {<br /> createNotify();<br /> var notifyElement = document.getElementById('mw-js-notify');<br /> }<br /> notifyElement.style.display = 'block';<br /> notifyElement.innerHTML = message;<br /> }<br /> <br /> function dismissNotify(message, timeout) {<br /> var notifyElement = document.getElementById('mw-js-notify');<br /> if ( notifyElement ) {<br /> if ( timeout == 0 ) {<br /> notifyElement.style.display = 'none';<br /> } else {<br /> notify(message);<br /> setTimeout(&quot;dismissNotify('', 0)&quot;, timeout);<br /> }<br /> }<br /> }<br /> <br /> function createNotify() {<br /> var div = document.createElement(&quot;div&quot;);<br /> var txt = '###PLACEHOLDER###'<br /> var txtNode = document.createTextNode(txt);<br /> div.appendChild(txtNode);<br /> div.id = 'mw-js-notify';<br /> // TODO: move styles to css<br /> div.setAttribute('style',<br /> 'display: none; position: fixed; bottom: 0px; right: 0px; color: white; background-color: DarkRed; z-index: 5; padding: 0.1em 1em 0.1em 1em; font-size: 120%;');<br /> var body = document.getElementsByTagName('body')[0];<br /> body.appendChild(div);<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> /* Helper function similar to wfMsgReplaceArgs() */<br /> function i18n(message, keys) {<br /> var localMessage = message;<br /> if ( !keys ) { return localMessage; }<br /> for( var i = 0; i &lt; keys.length; i++) {<br /> var myregexp = new RegExp(&quot;\\$&quot;+(i+1), 'g');<br /> localMessage = localMessage.replace(myregexp, keys[i]);<br /> }<br /> return localMessage;<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> if (wgCanonicalNamespace == 'Special' &amp;&amp; wgCanonicalSpecialPageName == 'Upload'){<br /> addOnloadHook(uploadPreviewInit)<br /> //prepare Mediawiki Live Preview<br /> wgLivepreviewMessageLoading = 'Wait...'<br /> wgLivepreviewMessageReady = 'Done'<br /> document.write('&lt;script type= &quot;text/javascript&quot; src=&quot;/skins-1.5/common/preview.js&quot;&gt;&lt;/script&gt;')<br /> }<br /> <br /> function uploadPreviewInit(){<br /> wpUploadDescription = document.getElementById('wpUploadDescription') //global var<br /> var but = document.createElement('input')<br /> but.type = 'button'<br /> but.value='Preview'<br /> but.onclick=uploadPreviewDo<br /> wpUploadDescription.parentNode.insertBefore(but, wpUploadDescription.nextSibling)<br /> }<br /> <br /> function uploadPreviewDo(){<br /> if (!window.wikiPreview) //create preview div<br /> wikiPreview = document.createElement('div')<br /> wikiPreview.id = 'wikiPreview'<br /> wpUploadDescription.parentNode.insertBefore(wikiPreview, wpUploadDescription.nextSibling.nextSibling)<br /> lpDoPreview(wpUploadDescription.value, '/w2/index.php?action=submit&amp;live')<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* ========== Upload preview ==========<br /> ========== -End- ==========<br /> ========== CODE IS UNREVIEWED ========== */</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=Alpha_Quintesson&diff=310106 2009-06-10T22:32:59Z

<p>Suki Brits: /* Trivia */ The random links really undermine it.</p> <hr /> <div>{{factions|unicron}}<br /> : ''Alpha Quintesson is an alien from the [[Energon (franchise)|Energon]] portion of the [[Unicron Trilogy]] [[continuity family]].''<br /> <br /> [[Image:Alphaquintesson.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Alpha Q so hard you won't be able to walk for a week.]]<br /> A mysterious manipulator, '''Alpha Quintesson''' (or '''Alpha Q''') has his tentacles spread wide, influencing the actions of both [[Autobot]] and [[Decepticon]] alike. He also has the command of armies of [[Terrorcon (Energon)|Terrorcon]] drones! His actual motives are unclear, but his goal is obvious; he plans to gather enough [[Energon (Energon)|energon]] to restore the shattered remains of the planet-devouring [[Unicron]]!<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> :''Hungarian name'': '''Alfa Q''' (Mwuha-ha-ha-haah!)<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> ==Fiction==<br /> {{cleanup|January 2009|Needs Storylinks!}}<br /> <br /> ===''Energon'' cartoon===<br /> :''Voice actor:'' [[Trevor Devall]] (English); [[Yūichi Nagashima]], [[Yukie Maeda]] (Japanese), [[Johan Hedenberg]]/[[Anders Öjebo]]/[[Niclas Fransson]] (Swedish)<br /> <br /> [[Image:AlphaQ1.jpg|left|250px|thumb|You hit me! Picard never hit me.]]<br /> Among the many worlds that fell to the unending hunger of the world-eater, [[Unicron]], was one little sphere known as [[Planet Q]]. This world would not go quietly, however, as its armies fought back valiantly, but it soon it became apparent that they would not be able to stop Unicron. The planet's grand chamberlain resigned himself to his world's fate, choosing a suicide ploy. The chamberlain instructed the planet's ruler to detonate Planet Q's core, but when the ruler could not, the chamberlain committed the act himself, destroying the planet as Unicron consumed it. The explosion failed to destroy Unicron, but it did heavily damage him, forcing him into a state of dormancy. And within Unicron's slumbering husk, the [[spark]] of Planet Q's ruler continued to exist.<br /> <br /> Driven mad by the solitary existence over the ensuing years, the mind of Planet Q's ruler fractured, splintering into five separate personalities. From Unicron's body, it sculpted for itself a new, armored form out of the &quot;bones&quot; of his devoured subjects, with four rotating face masks, through which each one of his personalities found voice, with his fifth personality—his original, true face—hidden away inside him, speaking only when the armour was closed, concealing his face from view. But within the shattered mind of the insane being that now called itself &quot;Alpha Q,&quot; a kernel of genius existed—Alpha Q had discovered that, through the power of [[Energon (Energon)|energon]], all that Unicron had consumed could be reconstituted. And so, using what little energon he had, he recreated the armies of Planet Q as the [[Terrorcon (Energon)|Terrorcons]], and sent them to Earth to gather energon for his plan.<br /> <br /> After the first few strikes by the Terrorcons, Alpha Q recreated the grand chamberlain in the form of [[Scorponok (Energon)|Scorponok]], in order to turn the [[Decepticon|Decepticons]] working with the [[Autobot|Autobots]] to his side. However, when [[Megatron (Armada)|Megatron]] engineered his own resurrection, Alpha Q was forced to flee Unicron's body in his head, and subsequently made a failed attempt to destroy Megatron by using the last of his Energon to recreate [[Starscream (Armada)|Starscream]]. When Megatron flushed Scorponok out as Alpha Q's mole, [[Rodimus (Energon)|Rodimus]] and his crew—whom Alpha Q had previously encountered and convinced of his plan—rescued him, leading to an alliance between Alpha Q and the Autobots, brokered by the human boy, [[Kicker Jones]]. Alpha Q initially refused to work with Kicker, but [[Misha]], through slightly kinder and more diplomatic words, was able to sway him. During Megatron's attack on [[Cybertron (planet)|Cybertron]] with Unicron's body, Alpha Q drove Unicron's head—now charged with the positive Energon of Earth—into the body, where it reacted with the negative Energon contained within, tearing open a fissure in space. In the new region of space that the fissure led to, Alpha Q was able to recreate all the worlds, as he had set out to do, cultivating and sustaining them from his place within Unicron's head, which had now become a glowing energon sun. However, when Megatron succeeded in reactivating Unicron's body, he had it reclaim the chaos-bringer's head, extinguishing the sun and killing Alpha Q in the process.<br /> <br /> Kicker recovered Alpha Q's body from within Unicron, and laid it to rest on [[Grass Planet]]. However, Alpha Q's spirit continued to observe and comment on events until the end of the conflict.<br /> <br /> ====Lost in translation====<br /> A point worth noting is that the strong affection Alpha Q feels for Scorponok is not displayed as clearly in ''Energon'' as it is in ''Super Link''. During the episode &quot;[[Return! Our Scorponok|Scorponok's Scars]]&quot; (which was never translated or shown in America), he repeatedly referred to Scorponok as &quot;my Scorponok&quot; and showed him images of their home planet in an effort to reverse Megatron's brainwashing. As well, during the [[Distribution|Special Dream Match]], Alpha Q responded to Scorponok's statement of &quot;I don't know you&quot; with &quot;say I love you&quot;, showing what seems to be some sort of surrogate parent/child emotional connection.<br /> <br /> Pre-production materials&lt;ref&gt;[http://web.archive.org/web/20041207164548/www.tfpulp.com/archive/energonprod/energonprod.html TFPulp's translation of Super-Link production notes, courtesy of the Wayback Machine.]&lt;/ref&gt; for ''Super Link'' offer further details on Alpha Q's history that did not make it into the final version of the series. His original, true form was originally conceived as being the human-form princess of Planet Q, a young girl whose face would be the fifth and final face of Alpha Q, that would eventually be revealed when Kicker would &quot;shatter her shell.&quot; The materials note, however, that if Hasbro vetoed the idea, the princess would be replaced with either a young prince, or simply a ball of light. Whether this veto occurred is unknown, but what is certain is that none of this was officially established in the finished show, and Alpha Q's fifth face remains hidden inside his closed armor (assuming it exists at all).<br /> <br /> There are, however, some vague reference to this material in the series. In ''Super Link'', when Alpha Q speaks with his true voice, it is the voice of a young child. In contrast, in these scenes in ''Energon'', a multi-layered voice is used, professing to be the voice of all lives lost in Planet Q's destruction. The vision of Planet Q's destruction viewed by Kicker, which shows Alpha Q and Scorponok existing as the same robotic entities they are in the present day, would appear to contradict this notion, but the scene is specifically described with a modifier by Kicker as being how &quot;Alpha Q remembers that day,&quot; leaving wiggle-room, since Alpha Q is absolutely out of his tree.<br /> <br /> ===''Energon'' comic===<br /> [[Image:AlphaQ-EnComic.jpg|right|180px|thumb|Giger? I hardly know 'er!]]<br /> Alpha Quintesson began the war over Energon by providing the Terrorcon group—led by Scorponok—with enhanced powers and &quot;Hyper Modes&quot;, sending them to the undefended Earth to drain it of the newly-discovered pure Energon ore. At the same time, he sent his four Horsemen (three Autobots and a Decepticon that had been captured and brainwashed before Unicron was defeated ten years previous) to Cybertron to wreak havoc, preventing the Autobots from getting to Earth.<br /> <br /> Unfortunately for Alpha, the Horsemen were repelled by the [[Omnicon|Omnicons]] and the newly-enhanced Autobots, which gave them the time needed to reach Earth and sink the Terrorcons' plans. For a time, Alpha Quintesson's involvement in the war was minimal, but when he returned, it was in a big way; unleashing thousands of Terrorcon drones to decimate [[Los Angeles]], [[Tokyo]], [[Toronto]] and [[Moscow]].<br /> <br /> But the Decepticons weren't the only ones Alpha Quintesson was working with toward his goal of restoring the shell of Unicron. Perhaps more dangerous than the Terrorcons was Alpha Quintesson's hidden ally, [[Avalon]], a member of the High Council, Cybertron's ruling body!<br /> <br /> {{note|The ''Energon'' comic ended before its storyline was completed due to the bankruptcy of [[Dreamwave Productions|Dreamwave]], and as such, the extent of Alpha Quintesson and Avalon's planning is, and may likely remain, unknown. What little we know hinted that perhaps Alpha Quintesson was not entirely happy in his forced servitude to Unicron. Solicitations for unreleased issues reveal he had his own plan separate from Unicron's, &quot;a world-shattering agenda...that bridges worlds and dimensions,&lt;ref&gt;[http://seibertron.com/comics/view.php?comic_id=751 Solicitation content at seibertron.com]&lt;/ref&gt; and his goals required capturing Kicker.}}<br /> ==Toys==<br /> ===Energon===<br /> *'''Alpha Quintesson''' (Mega, 2005)<br /> **''Accessories:'' Missile launcher, missile, base, three tentacles<br /> <br /> [[Image:Alpha Quintesson toy.jpg|right|180px|thumb|I do hope you'll bring these gadgets back in one piece, 007.]]<br /> :One of the last toys in the ''Energon'' line, Alpha Quintesson is fairly unique in that he is one of the only toys in the history of the main ''Transformers'' line that does not transform in any manner or even come with any kind of transforming accessory (like the [[Action Master|Action Masters]]).<br /> <br /> :Alpha Quintesson requires quite a bit of assembly out of the box, coming in six separate pieces: his main body, a solid &quot;bed of tentacles&quot; that serves as a wheeled base that the body plugs into, a firing missile launcher which plugs into his back and points up over his head, and three rubber, wire-poseable tentacles which attach to the base. The tentacles end in a large yellow clamp, a red chainsaw, and a purple energy arc, and spin around via a gear-wheel system when the base is rolled back and forth. In total, nine [[Energon chip|energon chips]] can be attached to the figure across the base and main body.<br /> <br /> :The main body is notably very [[Show-accuracy|accurate]] to the CGI model from the animated series, save for its coloration and the addition of the missile launcher. As a toy that was entirely dull green from top to bottom would not have been a very interesting sight, the figure features several shades of green with yellow highlights, plus a red paint wash on its &quot;underbelly&quot; and arms. The main body contains its own gimmick, involving Alpha Q's spinning faces as seen in the cartoon. Opening the armor's jaws reveals Alpha Q's head, recessed within the body (though unable to move forward into a more prominent position as seen in the show), and pressing the trigger on the back of the body, disguised as one of the spinal fins, causes the head to spin from face to face. The toy only features the character's first three faces (Angry, Whiny and Crazy); the purple, calm face is not featured.<br /> <br /> :The release of this figure was also unusual in that it was not uncommon for it to be incorrectly assembled. Many would come without the hard point where the figure connected to the base, making it nigh impossible for the toy to stand up on its own.<br /> <br /> ==Trivia==<br /> * Although the Dreamwave comic books and Hasbro toy packaging refer to the character by his full name of Alpha Quintesson, the ''Energon'' cartoon series preferred instead to call him by his Japanese moniker, Alpha Q, almost all of the time.<br /> * Heh, heh, ''Alpha Q''.<br /> <br /> ==Notes==<br /> &lt;references/&gt;<br /> <br /> ==External links==<br /> *[http://www.tfu.info/2005/Decepticon/AlphaQuintesson/alphaquintesson.htm Alpha Quintesson at TFU.info]<br /> <br /> <br /> [[Category:Energon characters]]<br /> [[Category:Quintessons]]<br /> [[Category:Terrorcons]]</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki_talk:Community_Portal&diff=310045 2009-06-10T20:51:03Z

<p>Suki Brits: /* We need a new adspace */</p> <hr /> <div>__NEWSECTIONLINK__<br /> <br /> This is the place for discussion of topics that affect the entire wiki. Some topics that would ordinarily be here have merited their own pages:<br /> <br /> '''The move away from Wikia:'''<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki:Community Portal/Complaints]]<br /> <br /> '''Our policy on having ads in the wiki:'''<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki:Ads]]<br /> <br /> '''The Bookworm database-crash:'''<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central]]<br /> * [[Project:Bookworm Crash]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving2]]<br /> <br /> '''The server move:'''<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving2]]<br /> <br /> {{chapters<br /> |title=Community Portal Archives<br /> |content=*[[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive1|Archive 1]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive2|Archive 2]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive3|Archive 3]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive4|Archive 4]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive5|Archive 5]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive6|Archive 6]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive7|Archive 7]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive8|Archive 8]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive9|Archive 9]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive10|Archive 10]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive11|Archive 11]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive12|Archive 12]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive13|Archive 13]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive14|Archive 14]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive15|Archive 15]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive16|Archive 16]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive17|Archive 17]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive18|Archive 18]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive19|Archive 19]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive20|Archive 20]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive21|Archive 21]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive22|Archive 22]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive23|Archive 23]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive24|Archive 24]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive25|Archive 25]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive26|Archive 26]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive27|Archive 27]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive28|Archive 28]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive29|Archive 29]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive30|Archive 30]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive31|Archive 31]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive32|Archive 32]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive33|Archive 33]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> <br /> == Quotes ==<br /> {{note|This discussion was moved from [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central#Quotes]].}}<br /> <br /> Quotes now seem to look like this:<br /> <br /> {{quote|Freedom is the right of all sentient beings|Optimus Prime}}<br /> <br /> when IIRC before the crash they look like this:<br /> <br /> {{bigquote|Freedom is the right of all sentient beings|Optimus Prime}}<br /> <br /> Now, it seems we can get the second result using the &lt;nowiki&gt;{{bigquote}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; template instead of the basic &lt;nowiki&gt;{{quote}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; template that is currently populating most of the pages.<br /> <br /> I'm of the opinion that the bigquote look is much more pleasing to the eye and it also seemed to be the norm before the crash. Should we change the quotes to bigquotes on individual pages or just have someone with template knowledge make a change there? --[[User:Bluestreak7|Bluestreak7]] 23:29, 5 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Discussion on [[Template_talk:Quote]] suggests that bigquote is the old style and quote is the new style. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 01:37, 6 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Mind you I didn't ''ask'' anyone before swapping styles-- the intention was to give people a chance to evaluate the new look, but we only had it for a few days before the crash... so I don't think anyone noticed. :p<br /> ::It's my opinion that the old quote template took up too much space-- which is find for a single quote at the top of an article when you want to make a big thing of it, but I thought ''most'' uses of the template would look nicer with s smaller visual footprint. (Plus the html is more contextual.)<br /> ::Some people seem to dislike the chevron-style quoting... it's consistent with what, at the time, were our new reference templates-- also lost in the crash. The real appeal, to me, is that it lets you put quotes ''inside'' the quote template (such as an exchange between characters) without looking weird. The way we ''used'' to do that was multiple quote templates in a row, which (being oversize already) resulted in a massive on-screen footprint.<br /> ::If the consensus is to switch to the bigQuote format for all quotes instead of the smaller one, I guess that's the community's perogative... but I'm gonna argue against it until that decision is made.<br /> ::I ''like'' bitQuote-- it's great if you want a quote to be a big thing. Most of the time you don't. When you do-- why not just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{bigquote}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:48, 6 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Ahhh, my mistake! I coulda sworn I'd seen quote in use longer! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 01:55, 6 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Why I don't like &quot;quote&quot;:<br /> ::#It's ugly.<br /> ::#It's '''bigger''' than bigQuote. That seems to defeat the whole point.<br /> ::#Single guillemots ''don't get used as quotation marks in English'' and so '''they don't parse as quotation marks'''.<br /> ::#It's '''incredibly''' ugly.<br /> ::#And finally-if-slightly-tangentially, there's a conscious effort, it seems, to change all &quot;bigquotes&quot; to &quot;quotes&quot;, which defeats the whole point of having two templates.<br /> ::Definite vote to revert - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 11:35, 6 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> I vote against the revert. I do not like the old quote style, as noted on the above-linked discussion page. All we need to do is change the guillemots to quote marks and it's fine by me. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 04:08, 9 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> In accordance with the general wishes of the community, the quotes have been changed from guillemots to standard quotation... though I think it looks terribly ''silly'' that way. You can see just how silly over at [[Template_talk:Quote]]. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:57, 10 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Well, one day after updating the quote template, I finally ran into ''exactly'' the scenario I was talking about in regards to quotes within quotes. I need to quote this passage (which includes but is not composed exclusively of dialog) for an article. <br /> {{quote|&quot;Farewell Optimus prime,&quot; [Starscream] whispered to himself. &quot;Time for Endspark.&quot;|[[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]|&lt;u&gt;[[Ghosts of Yesterday]]&lt;/u&gt; p280}}<br /> :That looks absolutely retarded. The guillemots may have been ugly-- but they were at least ''clear''. And none of the user suggestions (including [[User:Abates]] idea of using multiple parameters for a series of quotes) applies here-- because the text is ''inline''.<br /> :You all suck. Does anyone have any suggestions ''other'' than guillemots to make that look less retarded? Because &lt;nowiki&gt;{{bigquote}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; looks even ''worse''. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:53, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::[http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp Rule four] suggests it should look like this:<br /> {{quote|'Farewell Optimus prime,' [Starscream] whispered to himself. 'Time for Endspark.'|[[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]|&lt;u&gt;[[Ghosts of Yesterday]]&lt;/u&gt; p280}}<br /> ::although you could also use &amp;lsquo; and &amp;rsquo; maybe? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 03:33, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I have restore the guillemots as an ''optional flag.'' (style=2) The entire ''point'' of using a non-english quotation mark was to avoid conflicts with English quotation marks, so the guillemots seem like a good fallback position when there is a conflict.<br /> {{quote|'Farewell Optimus prime,' [Starscream] whispered to himself. 'Time for Endspark.'|[[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]|&lt;u&gt;[[Ghosts of Yesterday]]&lt;/u&gt; p280|style=2}}<br /> :::This necessitated html and css changes, so some quotes may look funny for the next 24 hours or so until the pages de-cache. (They'll preview properly, and if you save them they'll look right... but left on their own they will re-cache with the updated &lt;nowiki&gt;{{quote}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; HTML in short order, so don't bother.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:50, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Uh, why not take the easy route. '''Leave out the opening and closing quotation marks when you post''', and the template fills them in. i.e., <br /> {{quote|Farewell Optimus prime,&quot; [Starscream] whispered to himself. &quot;Time for Endspark.|[[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]|&lt;u&gt;[[Ghosts of Yesterday]]&lt;/u&gt; p280}}<br /> ::There you go, simple and doesn't involve guillemots that don't parse for anyone. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 05:01, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::What a lovely mix of smart and dumb quotes you have created. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:46, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Given the use of a monospaced font, it doesn't make sense to use &quot;smart&quot; quotation marks anyway... - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 07:24, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I prefer the old style quotes. Nobody can make me use the new ones. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 06:09, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I agree, for all the reasons that SanityOrMadness listed above (especially points 1, 2 and 4)[[Special:Contributions/81.108.237.26|81.108.237.26]] 13:44, 18 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I completely don't care about this discussion, but I must take the time to point out that it's &quot;guillemet&quot;. &quot;Guillemot&quot; is a bird, which is decidedly not relevant to this discussion. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 03:49, 16 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> I don't think the normal quotes show up properly in IE6 and a normal quote overlaps an image on http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Protoform so that needs to be fixed or bigquote restored.[[Special:Contributions/81.108.237.26|81.108.237.26]] 11:08, 22 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :That's a note, not a quote. The site unfortunately has plenty of problems in IE6, mostly caused by Microsoft's crappy rendering engine. A few of them linger in IE7 too... We really need to come up with a replacement for the messageboxes which doesn't lose the right-hand edge for one thing. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 17:48, 22 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> == Redirects while editing ==<br /> <br /> Go to [[User:Derik/Sandbox7]], hit edit, then ''preview''. (Hitting shift-refresh might be required to clear out your CSS cache if the effect isn't apparent.)<br /> <br /> Links to redirects are highlighted ''in preview mode only''. If it's not highlighted, you know you're pointing to an actual page rather than a redirect. Should probably make it easier to just ''guess'' on a lot of links while still being assured you're picking valid ones.<br /> <br /> (Pink is a terrible color to use for this. Any suggestions on how this should be styled? Sparkle-background?) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:46, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Would making them simply &lt;span style=&quot;text-decoration: underline; color: blue&quot;&gt;underlined&lt;/span&gt; be too subtle? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 23:15, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I worry it's too subtle. What about &lt;span style=&quot;text-decoration: underline;border-bottom: 3px double; color: blue;cursor: help;&quot; title=&quot;I'm Rick James bitch, and ''this'' is linking to a redirect!&quot;&gt;this&lt;/span&gt;?<br /> ::If that's too subtle I could break out the sparkling text and have the wiki chant &quot;Septus, Dominus!&quot; every time you mouse over it...-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:30, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Aw, what's wrong with the pink? I think that one's clear enough. [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 00:39, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Not bad. At least this way it'll be easier to catch the redirects, applying changes when necessary. Although pink... I think it'd be better if the color was a different contrast if it's in the colored section of the templates (as in the episode/comic templates). --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 01:34, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Abates suggested underlining... since the redirects ''only'' show up that way when in preview mode, I think it'd be a good idea to have multiple visual indications. (I don't think the previous/next links on the comicnav, for example, will change color... because they already ''have'' a color set. If you have multiple indicators (color underline, etc...) chances are at least one will remain noticable no matter what happens.<br /> :Does anyone hate the blinking? (It's a firefox-only style.) Normally I HATE anything that blinks because its distracting, but the whole point here is to be able to easily spot the redirects. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:58, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Eh, blinking's fine. Not that of a biggy for me. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 02:08, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::It's only in the preview and not in the saved pages, so the blinking is ok so far as I'm concerned! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 02:15, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I think the feature is great? But yes, I hate the blinking. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 10:03, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> This might be a good time to mention this, but just because a link is pink and flashy doesn't necessarily mean it is a mistake needing fixing, right? It is sometimes OK to use redirect links. If you are talking about Goldbug it is OK (and preferable in my opinion) to link to [[Goldbug (G1)]] and let the redirect do the work. I think having it stand out so much would tend to have editors feel the need to clean them all out. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 10:17, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::There is potential for that. I agree that sometimes redirects are okay... &lt;nowiki&gt;*shrug*&lt;/nowiki&gt; -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 12:44, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> How about &quot;safety orange&quot; or yellow? Those are universal &quot;danger/warning&quot; colors. (And less puke-inducing for me than pink). I don't mind the blinking either, considering that the idea is that the indicator is ''supposed'' to annoy the hell out of you until you change it. (FWIW, the whole thing works fine in Opera 9.63, too.)<br /> <br /> As for Starfield's comment, eh, I just don't see it 99% of the time. If I wanted to link to something like Goldbug or Rodimus Prime, I would do &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Bumblebee (G1)|Goldbug]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; or &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Hot Rod (G1)|Rodimus Prime]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; instead. About the only time I could see it useful is if you were doing linking related to a spoiler (like Longarm Prime vs. Shockwave, for instance), but even then you'd still only need to do it for a month at most. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:15, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I don't personally see the sense in manually redirecting to Hot Rod when you are talking Rodimus Prime when there is perfectly valid actual redirect to use. You aren't talking about &quot;Hot Rod&quot;. It is like word-linking that way, like you are trying to fake out the reader. &quot;Rodimus Prime&quot; is that character's name in that point of the story. I always thought that was the primary purpose of having redirects, and search boxes were secondary. <br /> :Plus there is the added benefit of when you use the &quot;what links here&quot; page, you see what pages link to &quot;Rodimus Prime&quot;, which is interesting information that is lost if everything links to &quot;Hot Rod&quot;. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 17:53, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Because it's the same character. We say &quot;Spike&quot; or &quot;Daniel&quot;, but link to their full name. If someone refers to Bumblebee as a &quot;giant yellow Volkswagon robot&quot; in something, we might use that phrasing in the synopsis, but we'd still link to Bumblebee, not to &quot;giant yellow Volkswagon robot&quot; as a redirect. Etc. It's not a fakeout, it's just using the proper contextual name in the text, but cutting out the middleman for the actual link.<br /> ::Redirects can make linking easier for editors who don't know immediately what the proper link might be, so we don't end up with accidental duplicate pages (or as a shorter way to link to something like an oft-used section link), but on the whole I think it's mostly useful for searches.<br /> ::In short, while not all redirect linking is something to worry about, per se, I don't see anything wrong with encouraging editors to hunt down the correct linkage, even in those sorts of edge cases. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:19, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::&quot;Goldbug&quot; was a character in the comic [[Used Autobots]], the character was ''not'' &quot;Bumblebee&quot;. In that way, it is different than using Spike's full name, or even [[Peter Parker]] vs [[Spider-Man]]. I think a link on the [[Used Autobots]] article to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Bumblebee (G1)|Goldbug]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; is incorrect because there was no &quot;Bumblebee&quot; in the story. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 18:36, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::And yet, Bumblebee and Goldbug don't have separate articles, because we treat them as being the same character. *shrugs a little* I don't ''care'' either way, really, and wouldn't consider it worth worrying about if someone linked to Goldbug, I just don't see that as more correct. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:47, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Bumblebee/Goldbug is the same character. That is ''why'' I think it is OK to link to &quot;Goldbug&quot;, even more correct to do so when you are talking about Goldbug. &quot;Goldbug&quot; is not a nickname for &quot;Bumblebee&quot;, Goldbug is that character, at that point in the story. The article could be named &quot;Goldbug (G1)&quot; with Bumblebee redirecting to it or &quot;Bumblebee/Goldbug&quot;, but for our, somewhat arbitrary, naming rules. I don't disagree with the naming rules, but just because the article is called &quot;Bumblebee&quot; doesn't mean that that always linking to &quot;Bumblebee&quot; is correct. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 19:00, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::And yet, even if you link to Goldbug, when you click on the link, you still end up at a page titled &quot;Bumblebee (G1)&quot;. Is the little &quot;redirected from&quot; note really that crucial a difference? (Especially since the intro mentions the Goldbug change right at the top anyway.) It just seems like a difference that makes no difference to me. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:05, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Yes, when you link to Goldbug, you end up at the right spot, so why the big push to not link to Goldbug when you are talking about Goldbug? And yes, in some way I like seeing &quot;redirected from&quot;, it lets me know that Goldbug is just as correct but the title is called &quot;Bumblebee&quot; out of convenience. And don't forget about the &quot;What links here&quot; feature. It is a little useful being able to sort out the Goldbug references. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 19:19, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Someone requested I link-fix a bunch of minor variants of Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime ot all point to &quot;Hot Rod (G1)&quot;. Instead I split them, pointing to &quot;Hot Rod (G1)&quot; and &quot;Rodimus Prime (G1)&quot; as appropriate-- in case we one day decide to split the articles like we do Megatron/Galvatron.<br /> ::::::The same principle applies. A split is ''unlikely'', but this way if we ''do'' split the articles, all the links are already pointing to the appropriate destination, instead of having to sort through 500+ incoming links ''by hand'' (that's abotu the number Hot Rod has...) to figure out which need to go where. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 10:57, 15 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::::::''Is the little &quot;redirected from&quot; note really that crucial a difference?''<br /> ::::::::For me, yes, it kinda is. It lets me know that the powers-that-be have decided that &quot;Goldbug&quot; is heavily subordinate to the character of Bumblebee, that they are well and truly one and the same, that there's not some other Goldbug article out there that I'm missing. That in itself is a significant bit of information, even before I've started reading the text. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 20:09, 22 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> I think that the &quot;What Links Here&quot; issue is a fair point. But IMHO if you need the little &quot;redirected from&quot; note to tell you're in the right place instead of just by reading the intro, you're either lazy or the intro needs rewriting. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:14, 22 April 2009 (EDT)&lt;br&gt;<br /> Edit: Realized I should mention that I'm liking the blinky thingy so far... it used to be annoying having to click through every new link I was adding to make sure it was the proper direct link instead of a redirect. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:18, 22 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :We should have one standard for linking or not linking to redirect pages. I much prefer being able to link to redirect pages and not get reverted, but I would go along with the other way if that is the standard. I started a draft proposal for a standard to be added to the style guide at my [[User:Starfield/Redirect linking|sandbox]]. Please feel free to comment or edit it or add reasons for/against. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 10:51, 8 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> ==Franchise identifier consistency==<br /> At the moment, we have 34 &quot;G1&quot; articles with an identifier of a specific Japanese sub-franchise to distinguish them from articles on usually Western/G1 material. We also have about 9 &quot;G1&quot; articles who use a different kind of identifier, on basis that the Japanese continuities are G1.&lt;br&gt; <br /> This already led to a bit of moving around with the Grandus article between (G1) and (ROC) when the Animated guy was introduced. To prevent that happening with the Dai Atlas, Sky Garry and possibly Cancer articles, I'd like to have the community make a decision on how to deal with the (G1) identifier vs the (Headmasters), (Masterforce), (Victory), (Zone), (ROC) and (OC) identifiers vs whatever else can be/is used as identifier.&lt;br&gt; <br /> My preference would be to use the Japanese sub-franchise identifiers. Simple and in line with the whole &quot;from the (Japanese franchise) portion of the G1 continuity&quot; on top of those pages. For convenience, here's a list of the moves it would mean:<br /> *Sandstorm (Autobot) -&gt; Sandstorm (G1) (Note: we have a SG Sandstorm now, so (Autobot) it can't stay anyway.)<br /> *Sandstorm (Decepticon) -&gt; Sandstorm (OC)<br /> *Falcon (Predator) -&gt; Falcon (G1)<br /> *Falcon (Micromaster) -&gt; Falcon (OC)<br /> *Ricochet (G1 Autobot) -&gt; Ricochet (Headmasters)<br /> *Metrotitan (G1) -&gt; Metrotitan (Zone)<br /> *Grandus (G1) -&gt; Grandus (ROC)<br /> *Star Saber (G1) -&gt; Star Saber (Victory)<br /> *Joe (Micromaster) -&gt; Joe (ROC)<br /> *Circuit (Action Master) -&gt; Circuit (G1)<br /> *Circuit (Micromaster) -&gt; Circuit (OC)<br /> *Convertor (Micromaster) -&gt; Convertor (OC)<br /> *Convertor (Recyclon) -&gt; Convertor (G1), but I'm in favour of leaving this one as (Recyclon) because all other Recyclons with an identifier use (Recyclon).<br /> Thoughts? [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 03:48, 19 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Sky Garry etc... all fall under (G1.) Widest possible identifier when there's no conflict.<br /> :This confuses people because we use specific franchises for UT characters... but the UT has SO MUCH name overlap it'd be pointless-- no one would have the (UT) identifier even if it was standard. G1 has little enough name overlap internal to itself we can make (G1) the default.<br /> :So it's inconsistent--but it's at least ''consistently'' inconsistent. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 06:55, 19 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Diver, Planet X, Hydra, maaaaybe Overlord... No, we're not consistently inconsistent either. And now I'm only looking at G1 West vs Japan. With BW, we do seem to be consistent in acknowledging its Japanese sub-franchises in identifiers. [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 07:20, 19 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::What's this &quot;widest possible identifier,&quot; Derik? Didn't we go through that huge &quot;Swarm (G1)&quot; debate (which seems to have been ''completely lost'' in the Bookworm crash, fantastic) to cement the franchise-of-origin rule forever and ever amen? The only question here is: What counts as a separate franchise? To my mind, ''Zone'' bears about the same relationship to G1 as G2 does. And, as the Swarm debate established, G2 is never ever G1 as far as parentheticals are concerned. The UT example has nothing to do with what you said and everything to do with our one simple rule. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 00:21, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::...I don't remember anymore. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:31, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::At least remember to curse the name of Bookworm for three to seven generations. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 00:59, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Side note: Actually, the bit of the discussion that was on my User Page subpage isn't lost. I just didn't upload it anywhere because we never actually determined a good permanent place to move it to, so I didn't know ''where'' to upload it to. After a quickie Google search, it turns out there's still a good cache file for the Insecticon Swarm talk page, too. Anyhoo. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 02:19, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Hey, whatever you can find and restore, please do. The biggest value of preserving a debate like that is never having to go through it again. I'd say you should re-make your Sandbox and its Talk page exactly as they were before. I don't think a more &quot;permanent&quot; place is necessary; it's an aborted experiment, so it can stay on an &quot;experimental&quot; page. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 03:11, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::::I'm for moving those pages. Except for &quot;OC&quot; since it's based on a bad translation of a Japanese title. 合体大作戦 (''Gattai Daisakusen'') means &quot;Great Combination Operation&quot;. Everybody who knows this, including me, just has been too lazy to correct it. (And Derik, the punctuation for a sentence is out of the parentheses. I'm not sure why you consistently make that mistake.) [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 01:54, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Then maybe this is a good moment to correct it? [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 03:55, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Well, problem is that &quot;Operation Combination&quot;, as incorrect as it is, is what the majority of English people know it as. And then what to have the disambiguation parentheses as? &quot;(GCO)&quot;? I would prefer to have it as &quot;Gattai Daisakusen&quot;, but my opinion of forgoing unofficial translations is decidedly unpopular. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 16:13, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::Then it depends on what this wiki cares more about: helping people find information or providing them with the correct information. By what you're saying, I'd say Operation Combination should become a redirect to the correctly named article. And from there, I don't think (OC) is going to be anymore clear on what continuity it represents than (GCO) or (GD). I don't think many will immediately guess &quot;OC&quot; stands for Operation Combination, and that's also not the point of identifiers. [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 08:21, 21 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::I'm in favor of using the Japanese sub-franchise names. I checked Beast Wars and we are using the sub-franchise names for that, (BWII), (BWN) so this would be consistent. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 08:51, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::Except as someone (Interrobang?) keeps pointing out-- that's problematic in itself. There was no BWII Toyline. There was a BWII cartoon... and a Beast Wars Toyline. Japan considers all 4 BW series paer of 1 toyline franchise, much like Generation 1. (This argument hasn't received a lot of traction, but I'm bringing it up because it seems relevant.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 10:19, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::FortMax brought it up at least twice. One could argue that since we focus on fiction, we should base our disambiguation system on it, but I dunno how to reconcile that with [[Cryotek (RID)]]. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 16:13, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::Or [[Sideways (RID)]]. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:34, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::Sideways at least got a RID bio. All Cryotek gets is a quote. (And what if they have RID fiction with Cryotek in it? RID and BM are in two different continuity families which means we have to split the articles and argharghargh) [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 19:19, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::::Disambiguating by fiction has been argued. It doesn't work/help. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:52, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::::&lt;nowiki&gt;*bump*&lt;/nowiki&gt; So, I like Geewunling's proposal. Objections? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:14, 12 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::The Wiki calls Headmasters, Beast Wars II, etc. &quot;franchises.&quot; I didn't know the weren't until just now. It seems useful enough to do so, even if it isn't 100% historically accurate. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 19:07, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> == Technical question: Firefox and history pages ==<br /> <br /> Is anyone else running the latest version of Firefox and having trouble with the history pages? I'm running Firefox 3.0.10 and when I look at, say, the [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Optimus_Primal&amp;limit=500&amp;action=history Optimus Primal history page], Firefox locks up for half a minute while it runs the javasript to hide half of the radio buttons. It does it on two different computers running the same version of Firefox, but I don't have the same problem on Wikipedia or Wikia. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 20:56, 1 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Oh wow, that ''was'' a pretty nasty stutter I got when I tried to reproduce your issue. Same version, same results.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 21:00, 1 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Ayep, same here. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:02, 1 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Issue also reproduced on my home PC, which has more get up and go than my workstation, with Firefox 3.5 beta 4.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 22:34, 1 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Ditto on my notebook and tower unit. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 23:06, 1 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::...interesting. Why just firefox? (Clearly the 500+ items are an issue here-- but Safari has no problem with 500 items.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:26, 1 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::I'd be curious to know as well. I specifically tried it again with the beta release because it uses a different (and supposedly more efficient) Javascript engine.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 23:30, 1 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::And why only here and not on Wikipedia? Is there that much of a change in the Javascript between MediaWiki 1.12 and 1.14? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 23:32, 1 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Dropped down to Firefox 2...20 there to test, and clicking the radio buttons doesn't take very long, but the page DOES lock up for a while on initial load. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 18:28, 2 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :And FF 1.5.10 behaves as-FF2. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 18:38, 2 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Bad images ==<br /> <br /> My scanner is a piece o' crap. Is it better to upload dark and grainy pictures with a &quot;badimage&quot; tag or just put up a &quot;picsneeded&quot; tag? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 21:38, 3 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Depends. With recent comic stuff, I think &quot;pics needed&quot; would be better, as there's a good chance that someone else will have the issue (or can find scans, *cough*). I replaced all the Defiance ones, for instance. If you have in mind specific scenes you would have scanned, you can always leave a suggestion in the picsneeded tag or on the talk page.<br /> :On the other hand, for stuff that's old or rare, where it might be a choice between a bad image or never having an image, IMHO a bad image is better than nothing.<br /> :(If you ever replace your scanner, I recommend the Canon MP210. I use it with Irfanview, and god I love the thing. Prints like a charm, too.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:00, 3 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == New User Template ==<br /> <br /> I remember... someone before the crash (FortMax maybe?) suggesting the idea of a template we can stick on the talk pages of new users to welcome them. I rather liked the idea, so I started a mockup idea here: [[User:Jeysie/NewUser]] Any ideas for a pic, info to add/change, etc?<br /> <br /> Also, I noticed we don't have a New Users log enabled the way Wikia does... if we do create this sort of thing, having that sort of log would be helpful. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:21, 4 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :We'd need to either upgrade to MediaWiki 1.14 or install [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Newuserlog the extension] to get the new users log. It would be ''very'' useful, I'm thinking. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:35, 4 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Screencap templates ==<br /> <br /> Er... you know we can ''edit'' the text that appears on the file upload screen. Anyone got a list of screencap templates?<br /> <br /> (I think you might even be able to set them up for one-click adding.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:37, 11 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :They are all listed at [[Transformers Wiki:Images]], to my knowledge. I added all the ones I knew of.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 20:42, 11 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::[[User:Derik/Sandbox7|This]] is what I'm looking at. It's kinda fugy. Anyone else want to take a whack at it? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:16, 11 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> I'm also working at templating the comics images:<br /> *{{tl|MarvelUScover}} (Marvel US G1), {{tl|HMcover}} (Marvel Headmasters mini) and {{tl|MarvelG2cover}} are maxed out.<br /> *I ''think'' I've got all the extant &amp; relevant images for {{tl|MarvelG2interior}} - although I can't absolutely swear to it<br /> *I'm currently working as and when I have the chance on moving the Marvel US G1 interiors and HM interiors to {{tl|MarvelUSinterior}} and {{tl|HMinterior}} from a variety of copyright tags and the absence thereof (including the ones that lost their descriptions in the Bookworm Incident)<br /> Like I say, the covers are maxed out, but there's always the chance that other interiors will be uploaded (Walky's done a few recently), and it would help if they were added too. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:58, 11 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Propose a visually compact way of doing so. ;) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:10, 11 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> {|border cellspacing=&quot;1&quot; cellpadding=&quot;5&quot; width=&quot;100%&quot;<br /> |-<br /> !width=50%|General<br /> !width=50%|Comic Cover<br /> |-valign=&quot;top&quot;<br /> |width=50%|<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Hasbro/Takara Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{hastak}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Interior Panel Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{comicinterior}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Cover Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{comiccover}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Screencap Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{screencap}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> |width=50%|<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Marvel US G1 Cover copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{MarvelUScover|(description)|(issue number)|(issue title)|(artist list)|(last two digits of publication year)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Marvel Headmasters Cover copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{HMcover|(description)|(issue number)|(issue title)|(artist list)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Marvel US G2 Cover copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{MarvelG2cover|(description) |(issue number) |(issue title) |(artist list) |(last digit of publication year)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> |-<br /> !width=50%|Screencap<br /> !width=50%|Comic Interior<br /> |-valign=&quot;top&quot;<br /> |width=50%|<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Title Card Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{titlecard}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;G1/Sunbow Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{G1cap|(imagedescription)|(episode name)|(last digit of premiere year originally aired)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Robots In Disguise Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{RIDcap|(imagedescription)|(episode name)|(last digit of year originally aired)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Beast Wars Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{BWcap|(imagedescription)|(episode name)|(last digit of year originally aired)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Beast Machines Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{BMcap|(imagedescription)|(episode name)|(year originally aired)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Transformers: Animated Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{TFAcap|(imagedescription)|(episode name)|(year originally aired)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> |width=50%|<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Marvel US G1 Interior copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{MarvelUSinterior|description=|issueno=|storytitle=|pageno=|panelno=|panelnos=|script=|line-art=|pencils=|inks=|colours=[[Nelson Yomtov]]|letters=|help=|year=(last two digits of publication year)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Marvel Headmasters Interior copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{HMinterior|description= |issueno= |storytitle= |pageno= |panelno= |panelnos= |letters= |help=}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Marvel US G2 Interior copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{MarvelG2interior|description= |issueno= |storytitle= |pageno= |panelno= |panelnos= |script= |pencils= |inks= |colours= |letters= |help= |year=(last digit of publication year)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> |}<br /> ...I don't know about visually compact, exactly, but considering how many image templates we have, I'm not sure &quot;visually compact&quot; is possible... --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:06, 11 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Well, it's something to work on. Unfortunately the '''charinsert''' plugin doesn't have any way to display s short piece of text while inserting a long one.<br /> :There's a rabid wolverine scrabbling around the back of my brain licking carnival pennies... I feel like when he comes down off his ''filth high'' he might have some ideas about Stupid CSS Tricks to make that less loathesome. (Failing that we could do something with Javascript, but it'd be a bitch to update so that's a last choice.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:35, 12 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Yeah, it's pretty much the opposite... you can stick a description in the tooltip, but the actual text has to be visible. I honestly can't think of any way to do it in pure CSS without messing up the clickability of it.<br /> ::I guess we ''could'' just link to the plain vanilla templates with no parameters, but I kind of want to encourage people to be as thorough as possible with their info.<br /> ::I think we could also use a way to include a link to each template's page in case one needs to read the instructions. But I had trouble coming up with a way that's brief, clear, and won't get mistaken for the inserto-text link. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 01:53, 12 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Addendum: We could go for a fake form with OPTION or a CSS-based drop-down list, but I think those would both need JS. (Admittedly the CSS based drop-down would need less JS, and only for the style, not the functionality.) &lt;small&gt;(Why do I always have extra thoughts right ''after'' hitting the &quot;submit&quot; button?)&lt;/small&gt; --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 01:59, 12 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::What about the Boilerplate plugin that was suggested a while back? Would that be more suitable for this sort of thing? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 02:04, 12 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::No, unfortunately... it only works for articles, not on file pages. (At least, if there is a way to get it to work on file pages, I couldn't figure it out.) Although I still think we should give that extension a whirl at some point, it won't help out with this specific thing. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 02:07, 12 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::My Wolverine stopped tripping long enough to say &quot;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{MarvelG2}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;:&lt;span class=&quot;tt1_fuxChar&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{MarvelG2interior|description=|issueno=|storytitle=|pageno=|panelno=|panelnos=|script=|pencils=|inks=|colours=|letters=|help=|year=(last digit of publication year)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;.&quot;<br /> ::::He is a filthy, FILTHY beast, and the hackiness of that CSS shames me. (And it's still not ideal code anyway.)<br /> ::::I think Javascript is a likely fate here. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:03, 12 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Upload Preview ==<br /> <br /> Over at [[Template_talk:Screencap#Since_we_got_derailed.|Template talk:Screencap]], Mr. Bates (or possibly Doug-- I can't keep them straight) suggested we look at the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_User_scripts/Scripts/Upload_Preview Upload Preview script]-- a pure javascript solution to the lack of previews during image upload (which the MW software doesn't naively support.)<br /> <br /> The script is currently available for anyone who has the [[User:Derik/kired tools|kired tools]] plugins installed. Please report your thoughts, and if there are any problems or conflicts. If user response is positive, I'm going to recommend the relevant code be added to the Wiki's common.js file. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:59, 12 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :It works great - very handy (I was the one who suggested it, BTW) --[[User:Abates|abates]] 05:59, 13 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I finally figured out why I have such trouble telling you and Doug apart.<br /> ::I'm actually trying to tell &quot;apog,&quot; &quot;apog&quot; and &quot;abates&quot; apart under the impression they are ''two'' people. '''No wonder''' I'm confused. -[[User:Deceptitran|Deceptitran]] 12:37, 18 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == (comic issue) vs. (issue) ==<br /> <br /> Is there any protest against eliminating (comic issue) as a disambiguation parenthetical? Near as I can tell, it's totally redundant with the shorter, simpler (issue) parenthetical. (again, unless there's a &quot;Child's Play (socioeconomic issue)&quot; article that I'm unaware of...) -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 10:52, 18 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :No protest here. I was planning on doing it someday. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 14:58, 18 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == ROTF spoilers from novelizations and other adaptations ==<br /> <br /> So, is information from the novelizations off-limits until the movie is in theaters, or what? (If so, we need to protect the hell out of a bunch of pages) --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 22:58, 20 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :It was discussed [[Talk:Revenge of the Fallen (franchise)|here]] and decided that no, they are not off limits, but please date the spoiler tags on character pages to a week after the film comes out. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 23:04, 20 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I've been stubbing in articles where I feel it's appropriate... but I've also been tailoring my content to avoid major spoilers-- more to have the infrastructure in place and ready to fill in then the movie drops.<br /> ::(And realistically speaking, there's going to be a flood of detailed spoilers, including lists of every fatality and major surprise on the 10th-- the film premieres in Japan 18 days before it does here.)<br /> ::Incidentally, I don't ''trust'' the tie-in novels. Characters vanish suddenly, details are glossed over or changed... I harbor a suspicion that certain plot details are being kept out of the books-- or at least obscured-- to prevent fans from being 100% certain about anything. The climax of the two movie adaptions I've read so far are ''different'', they have '''noticeably''' divergent outcomes. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:12, 21 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I do not want '''''any''''' novelization and adaptation spoilers on character pages or other related articles. Stuff from adaptations should stay on their respective articles. Most of my work on the wiki at the moment is updating and maintaining movie articles, so it would be a personal inconvenience to me if I had to avert my eyes every time I come across the ''Revenge of the Fallen'' movie sections of character articles. Not only that, but there will be people who will wander onto this wiki with the intention of refreshing themselves on the movie or to read prequel stuff leading up to ROTF, but have no intention of reading up on plot points of the movie itself. And, as Derik says, novelizations and adaptations often differ wildly from the final movie script.<br /> :::I think it's more than bloody fair to expect that we only post ROTF-related stuff on the day of the movie's release around the world, not before. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 00:59, 21 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::That'd apply to the British Isles contingent? UK and Ireland are getting general release June 19. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 02:48, 21 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::That's a good question. (I have no opinion, I'm spoiling myself by reading the novel.)<br /> :::::IIRC, back during Animated season 2 we were observing a 1-week moratorium on character-page updates, which more-or-less covered the biggest broadcast markets.<br /> * 10th - Japan premiere<br /> * 24th - US Premiere<br /> * 26th - UK Premiere<br /> :::::Since the period we're talking about is just a 16 day span, I assume the same idea applies-- hold off until the 26th (possibly plus a few days) out of respect for other TF-fans. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:23, 21 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::As Lonegamer ''just said'', it's out here in the UK on the 19th. And the rule for TFA S2 seemed to be that &quot;as soon as it was first aired in English, be it in the UK, US or Canada (all three had 'world premieres in English' at different points), go for it&quot;. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 10:02, 21 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::I think that the modifier in that situation, though, was the fact that as soon as said Animated episodes had aired in English ''anywhere'', high-quality encodes of them were promptly available to download for anybody anywhere who wanted them, making it all pretty much fair game. Information could be added, and editors would not be left unable to verify that information, as they could download and see the episode themselves. The movie won't have that - US editors simply wont know if what anon IPs add is true or not, because they won't be able to see the movie to verify it and will have to operate on good faith, which is laudible, but we saw how well that worked with the Dubai Animated debalce and &quot;Animated Waspinator&quot;. While I'll be seeing it opening day here in the UK, I know that I, personally, wasn't planning to add anything about it to the wiki until it screened in the US. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 11:03, 21 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::What Chris said. &quot;Airing in English&quot; was a polite euphemism for &quot;we can see it too.&quot; It doesn't apply for a 2-and-a-half hour theatrical movie. American fans will still be in the dark until the 26th, and as far as I'm concerned the wiki should honor that. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 11:04, 21 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::''While I'll be seeing it opening day here in the UK, I know that I, personally, wasn't planning to add anything about it to the wiki until it screened in the US.''<br /> :::::::::''American fans will still be in the dark until the 26th''<br /> :::::::::Can I take it that the UK and US premiere dates above are switched?--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 14:02, 21 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::It's now been said '''thrice''' in this thread that the UK/Eire date is the 19th. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]]<br /> :::::::::::Beg your pardon, then. It was late, and I wasn't paying close enough attention.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 13:08, 22 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::::::::::Damn Americans think they're the centre of the Universe. If I was President of the US, I'd invade the UK and Ireland to protect American Transfan interests. 14:56, 1 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> I read the novel and have this to say: As much detail as is in it, there's no doubt its different. First of all: there's alot more detail so that means some of the slower parts are probably shorter in the movie (novels often do that anyways so no problems there) and also: in one chapter it leads up to fight and then on the very next chapter all of a sudden Devestator appears and is fighting already as if he's been there the whole time (meaning they skipped a chunk of that fight)So as is obvious, there will be differences.--[[User:Chipmonk328|Chipmonk328]] (or was it 9?)&lt;&lt;not that it matters<br /> <br /> ==Forgive my attitude but==<br /> what the flying f***! What happened to my account. I made one, I even remember what it looked like. Where is it and why can't I login and my username no longer exsists! What..the..hell. I've not signed in for a long time but I still go here regularly and everything, don't tell me you autodeleted my account! I mean, I’ve been here when it was at Wikia, I moved with you guys here and even made a new account here! Hell, my old accounts on Wikia all got deleted, so please don’t tell me you guys stooped to their level and deleted my account as well! I’ve done nothing wrong, aside from giving the appearance of being inactive because I’ve not logged in within awhile, but so what? What right does that give you to delete my account? (and if by some means it does give you the right to do so, please provide a link proving that)--[[User:Chipmonk328|Chipmonk328]] (or was it 9?)&lt;&lt; not that it matters<br /> :[[Transformers Wiki:Bookworm Crash]]. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 15:59, 1 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> Thank you. I'll just make a new account then.-sighs- Forgive if I bothered any of you with what I just said.--[[User:Chipmonk328|Chipmonk328]]<br /> ::Don't worry, incoherent rage is the '''proper''' response to the Bookworm crash... you're just slowpoking. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:17, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Main page ==<br /> <br /> [[Image:Mainpage_analytics-06-05-09.png|thumb]]<br /> I'll just leave this here...<br /> <br /> (I'll check in after work and see if anyone has thoughts, I sure do.)<br /> <br /> Number are per-individual-link BTW-- so two separate links to the same location have their clickthroughs tallied separately. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:16, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> : In which we learn nobody clicks anything! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:21, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::The numbers on the page ''should'' add up to 100%. It's just that a few links get vastly more traffic than the others so they show up as 0%. That might represent a few hundred clicks-- the Main Page ''is'' our most frequented page. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:12, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::And people are obviously clicking on [[Kup (G1)]] as the page has gained a thousand hits and jumped 30 places in the Popular Pages list in the last week or so. Any idea what time frame the data covers? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:20, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::That was pretty much my thought, too. XD Although it is kind of interesting that some of the categories/continuities/series sections seem more popular than others... it's just hard to tell which ones, since the number pop-ups are in weird spots.<br /> ::I also notice that the &quot;images&quot; link in the Editing Tips is popular... and that apparently the fake disambiguation links get some clicks. XD Speaking of which, we really should write up some more of those to replace the rotating ones that got lost in the crash... --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 13:26, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I may have sternly directed people to our Images policy page. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:49, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::It's the most common thing people get wrong, so it's also our most thorough policy document.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 14:05, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::About 8% of clicks on the main page are to our &quot;anyone can edit&quot; but up top-- which just takes people to anchors within the page. (The Editing tips section and the Holy Grails section, which do not themselves then collect a lot of clicks.)<br /> :::::This leads me to think that people who click on these things do ''not'' get what they want/are expecting. We should look at changing those links somehow.<br /> :::::Another 8 % of clicks on the main page are on the &quot;home&quot; logo in the upper left (which takes you... back to the main page) and the &quot;main page&quot; link in the nav toolbar.<br /> :::::If there's agreement, I'd like to set it so that the &quot;Main Page&quot; link in the navigation on the left is grayed out when you're on the main page, so it's clearer that &quot;you're here.&quot; (The link would still be usable, it'd just have this visual indicator.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:10, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::We could simply de-link the &quot;anyone can edit&quot; links... they just seemed like a good way to get people to actually read our policies and what we need. Or maybe we could link that text directly to [[Help:Contents]] and get rid of the &quot;Editing Tips&quot; box altogether?<br /> ::::::I agree with the &quot;Main Page&quot; link being disabled when you're actually on the Main Page. It's pretty easy to do via CSS, and you can also change the cursor to be a regular arrow in CSS to further de-emphasize the links and say, &quot;Hey, dude, you're already ''at'' the Main Page.&quot;<br /> ::::::Although I had actually thought that 8% of clicks was to the Recent Changes page, which would have made more sense to me. The oddness of where the stat boxes are in relation to the actual page links does make it hard to analyze. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:45, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::AS FAR AS I CAN TELL (which in a few cases - the continuities box especially - is less than 100%), these are all the numbers &gt;1.0%:<br /> :::::::*Logo (goes to Main Page): 4.0%<br /> :::::::*&quot;Navigation&quot; sidebar:<br /> :::::::**Main Page link in sidebar: 4.0%<br /> :::::::**Recent changes: 5.3%<br /> :::::::*Fake disambig:<br /> :::::::**&quot;anyone can edit&quot; (goes to &quot;editing-tips&quot; subpage): 4.0%<br /> :::::::**&quot;add to&quot; (goes to &quot;holy-grails&quot; subpage): 4.0%<br /> :::::::*Categories:<br /> :::::::**Characters: 1.8%<br /> :::::::*Continuities:<br /> :::::::**Live-action film: 1.4%<br /> :::::::**Full Series Info: 4.0%<br /> :::::::*Also, the cumulative links to the ROTF page appear to be &gt;1%, even if no individual link is.<br /> :::::::Thoughts on that... firstly, the links TO the main page ON the main page need to be nerfed. Not greyed out, killed. The logo can be just a logo, and the main page link can be replaced or removed. Secondly, there is no way in hell we should delink the stuff in the fake disambig, but redirecting to other places may be a better idea - take the &quot;editing tips&quot; box and turn it into a full page, linked from there (And from the ET box). Not quite so sure on &quot;add to&quot; - a list of stubs that we want filled out, perhaps? The &quot;Holy Grails&quot; box is too specific for 99.9% of potential editors, I expect. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 19:32, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Useful Extensions ==<br /> <br /> Now that we have a working server again and more control over the techie side of things, I wonder if we should start up a list of extensions to install that might be useful.<br /> <br /> My own picks:<br /> <br /> *[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Newuserlog Extension:Newuserlog] to keep track of new users so we can give them a [[User:Jeysie/NewUser|friendly greeting]]. As opposed to our current status of new people not usually getting much of a &quot;greeting&quot; unless they screw up. :&gt;<br /> *[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:MultiBoilerplate Extension:MultiBoilerplate] to provide a drop-down menu of skeleton codes for new pages. I find this ''incredibly'' useful on my own wiki for being able to easily keep different types of pages all laid out the same, by inserting full page structures into new pages so you can then just fill in the information. For example, [http://trinsic.alienharmony.com/Template:D20RulesPlayercharacterpage here's one structure page] I use to give an idea of the sort of code you can inset.<br /> <br /> :Mine:<br /> :*[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Title_Blacklist Extension:Title Blacklist] blocks creation of pages depending on a regular expression.<br /> <br /> :I will note that Newuserlog is built into MediaWiki 1.14.0, but we haven't discussed upgrading the software yet... --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:25, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Honestly, those &quot;friendly greetings&quot; drive me spare. I'd really rather not have them.<br /> ::Suggestions:<br /> ::*[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:KeepYourHandsToYourself Extension:KeepYourHandsToYourself] (prevents users or anons editing User:* pages other than their own.) [Beta] - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 19:47, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I'd be fine with blocking anons-- but I ''have'' been known to reach out and tweak someone's user page from time to time.<br /> :::(Not that we've really had a problem with either.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:02, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Why do they drive you spare? Giving new users a heads-up regards our policies ''before'' we have to slap a nastygram user notice on their page seems like a good idea to me. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:54, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::They drive me spare getting them while doing IP-edits. And chances are you'll get them again, and again, and again... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:02, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Oh! No, no, no. I didn't mean doing them automatically on all new users, I was thinking, like, putting the greeting ''manually'' only for new ''registered'' users. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 20:09, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ==Rise of the Chevy Autobots==<br /> Allright, I finally got around to putting this up. This is everything I have saved from the &quot;Rise of the Chevy Autobots&quot; online game - flash files, HTML, etc. It comes to nearly 60mb.<br /> <br /> [http://www.obscuretf.com/ChevyAutobotGame.zip Chevy Autobots]<br /> <br /> Unfortunately, I am most likely missing the last week or two of the story, but I figure it's better than nothing. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 14:18, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Monzo- I luvers you...<br /> :And AFIK the defeat of Mainframe himself never got a news update-- the epilogue was provided by the game itself. So you ''should'' have the most up to date version.<br /> :Uh, I suppose there might have been a &quot;he's weakening, keep at it&quot; update, but that's pretty content-null. It'd be nice to know the date Mainframe went down... but again, it looks like you've got 99% of everything preserved here. :)~<br /> :And now we can properly cite the Chevy Autobots being allspark mutations! (Or at least a result of Chevy's experimentation with Energon as an alternative fuel source.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:27, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Possible Relicensing? ==<br /> <br /> So, Wikipedia is moving from the GFDL to a Creative Commons license, which will make it incompatible with most Wikia sites from then on. (Presumably; I haven't heard if Wikia at large or any of its individual wikis--like the old Transformers one-- are making the same transition.) Should TFWiki consider switching, too? Pretty much everyone outside the Wikipedia/Wikia family goes with CC, which is a lot simpler in a lot of ways than the GFDL.<br /> <br /> [[wikipedia:GFDL#Compatibility with CC-BY-SA|Apparently, GFDL-licensed wikis can only make the change before August 1, 2009]]. And unlike them, we probably wouldn't have to worry about having added any content from non-wiki GFDL-licensed things, at least. And it would completely eliminate legal copying/pasting between this wiki and its rival. --[[User:Fleb|Fleb]] 17:47, 6 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I would support this, at least tentatively. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 19:16, 6 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::On the surface, at least, it looks like a good move. It keeps the same free-info spirit, but is incompatible with Wikia's license ''and'' any info-quoting or copying from us further requires attributing the wiki, if I'm reading it right. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:18, 6 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Hmm. I thought about bringing this Creative Commons thing up awhile back, but I'm not Legal Smarts (S-M-R-T) enough to fully understand it. Perhaps our staff should comment on this? The final decision is probably theirs. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:06, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::I don't really have much to say, other than it sounds like a good idea. If nothing else, the legal terms of the GFDL are nightmarish at best and I'd be happy to never think of them again. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 14:02, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> IANAL, but [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Licensing_update based on Wikimedia's page,] it ''looks'' like &quot;relicensing&quot; the site is just a matter of changing all the text that mentions &quot;GFDL&quot; now. The one requirement is that we're using [http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl-1.3.html version 1.3.] [[Transformers Wiki:Copyrights]] doesn't specify a version, and neither does the edit page or the footer, so that's probably okay. &lt;small&gt;(''[[Transformers Wiki:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|If the Document does not specify a version number of this License, you may choose any version ever published (not as a draft) by the Free Software Foundation.]]'')&lt;/small&gt; --[[User:Fleb|fleb]] 18:30, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::One thing that's confusing me, looking again at that - Wikipedia's new licensing structure seems confusing in that all non-imported-under-a-CC-licence content will still be dual-licensed under the GDFL. If we adopted that, Wikia could import from us, but we couldn't import from Wikia. CAN the GDFL be dropped completely? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 19:31, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Oh, definitely. The dual-licensing is just ''Wikipedia's'' own, weird thing to keep the Free Software Foundation loyalists from bitching and Leaving Forever. (Those CC-only things should actually &quot;poison&quot; individual pages so they're not truly GFDL-licensable anymore without reverting, so they'll probably eventually drop it completely.) --[[User:Fleb|fleb]] 22:05, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Which CC license would we use? Seems like [[wikipedia:Creative_Commons_licenses#Original_licenses|from the Wikipedia CC page]] that a by-nc-nd license would be what we're after? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:16, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :It would be [[wikipedia:Share-alike|CC-by-sa]]. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:23, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::That looks like a good idea to me. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 20:07, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Definitely By-SA -- If we do a No-Derivatives, how would we even edit any of our own pages? --[[User:Fleb|fleb]] 22:05, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Seems I misunderstood how the licensing applied. :) --[[User:Abates|abates]] 23:44, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Asking for permission to post links==<br /> <br /> I'm the current Bureaucrat at [http://ghostbusters.wikia.com Ghostbusters Wiki], and there was interest in placing links to articles on this wiki to Ghostbusters wiki articles, and likewise placing links on Ghostbusters wiki to articles relating to content which has been brought up. I don't know a great deal of your wikis past dealings, other than wikia apparently kept your old wiki's content when you moved. Anyways, the wiki would rather reference to your present wiki than the one currently at wikia. We are hoping you wouldn't mind the links to our characters on pages related to the [http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Race_with_the_Devil Race with the Devil] article. [http://ghostbusters.wikia.com/wiki/User:Devilmanozzy Devilmanozzy] 02:10, June 8, 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Can you give a few examples of articles on your wiki which would benefit from having links to this site? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 03:37, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::IIRC it's whatshername's assistants-- the ones from the Earthforce story (Running with the Devil?) that Wildman based on the RGB models.<br /> ::(I personally have no problem with the links. Though I think this guy added 'em once, misformatted, and they got reverted.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:06, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::That wasn't Nozzy but Liberal Noob, while not logged in. I told the original guy to take a step back and mind their P's and Q's before we start crosslinking, especially since it was an anonymous IP at the time. But yeah, he wants to crosslink with Race the Devil and Susan Hoffman.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 13:43, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Only direct link between the Ghostbusters Cartoon and the G1 Transformers cartoon is [[Frank Welker]] sounded like one of his TF roles when he voiced a ghost from time to time. I a am sorry for my wanton linking and it will not happen again. --[[User:Liberal Noob|Liberal Noob]] 22:57, 8 June 2009 (EDT) <br /> :::I meant which pages on the Ghostbusters wiki would benefit from having links on them to our wiki. I'm curious, because I regard myself as reasonably familiar with Ghostbusters, and I can't think offhand of any references to Transformers in it. Perhaps in one of the cartoons? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:55, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Thanks for the replies on this matter. A good user Liberal Noob had requested that I would more address this, apparently the mod needed to say something and form a partnership in order to have links posted related to one anothers material. To answer the question of what articles would be hyperlinked, I believe he was planning on linking to the animated pages for Peter Venkman, Egon Spengler, and Ray Stantz. Thats what I understand is being requested to being linked to.[[User:Devilmanozzy|Devilmanozzy]] 19:42, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::We're not wondering which pages on our wiki would link to your wiki. We were wondering which pages on your wiki would need to link to our wiki. We didn't know there ''were'' any Transformers references in any Ghostbusters media, and thus didn't know you'd need to link to us from your wiki. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:59, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::[[Race with the Devil]], [[Susan Hoffman]], [[Starscream's Ghost]], [[Horri-Bull]], and a few others. Links will be on is a article on [http://ghostbusters.wikia.com/wiki/Ghostbusters_Cameos Ghostbusters Cameos]. Note I believe that the section will be better built soon.[[User:Devilmanozzy|Devilmanozzy]] 20:21, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Seems like there's a few other connections in terms of voice actors ([[Tara Strong]], [[Frank Welker]], [[Maurice LaMarche]] etc) as well. I think linking between the two sites is a good idea. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 23:37, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::Yeah I had noticed that too as I looked around here the last few days. Never knew how much Ghostbusters and Transformers had in common.[[User:Devilmanozzy|Devilmanozzy]] 23:40, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::While I'm broadly in favour of this, could you maybe change &quot;[[Starscream's Ghost]]&quot; to &quot;[[Starscream (G1)|Starscream's ghost]]&quot; - I understand you want to keep the ghost theme going but the first is a link to an unrelated episode of the cartoon series, rather than the character himself. --[[User:Emvee|Emvee]] 07:02, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Quick Links? ==<br /> <br /> You know, now that I think about it, one thing Wikia actually did do right was having some &quot;Quick Links&quot; on the sidebar. I find myself missing being able to quickly get to the main continuities/series without having to search or click to the Main Page first. (Especially now that there's lots o' ROTF toys to keep tabs on...)<br /> <br /> Nothing extensive necessary; just one linkie thingy with a fly-out menu for our six main continuities and the full series list would probably work nicely. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 03:03, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I think notably M.Sipher *really* hated that because any time a cursor went within a parsec of the menu, it would pop out in an annoying manner. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:09, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Wasn't just Sipher - it drove me nuts too. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 09:09, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Well, in that case, maybe just an extra sidemenu then, kind of like the &quot;Campaign Navigation&quot; box on [http://trinsic.alienharmony.com/Main_Page this sidebar]? I just figured that a fly-out menu would save space, but an extra link sidebar would work for me too.<br /> :::But I'd definitely like something. As Abates points out below, we don't currently have any sidebar links for actually ''browsing''. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 12:47, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Could we make so that they're fly-out menus, but that they only fly-out if you actually click on the title? That would save room while avoiding things jumping out when you're waving the cursor around. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 22:11, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I think having a link on the sidebar for Revenge of the Fallen would be good too. While the Community portal and Recent Changes links are great for us Editors, they're not likely to be used much by casual visitors. We should be using the menu to draw attention to major articles. While I'm thinking about it, we could probably change the Main Page link to read &quot;Transformers Wiki&quot;... --[[User:Abates|abates]] 04:11, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Would anyone object if I went ahead and popped a link to [[Revenge of the Fallen (film)|Revenge of the Fallen]] in the navigation menu? I'm thinking between &quot;Main Page&quot; and &quot;Community portal&quot;. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:44, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I'm not of the upper brass but given the increasing coverage of ROTF as we come down the wire, it'd make the most sense. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 19:00, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == We need a new adspace ==<br /> <br /> The TFwiki on our new server is doing super mega amounts of bandwidth! (Note I've broken up the OPtimus Prime (G1) page, because, dude, that thing was a monster.) So, uh, I think we need to add a new adspace. One that's *above* the fold, since the ones we have are shoved down in the corner where no one can see them. What advertiser would want to dump loads of money on those? What I'm proposing is a 486x60 banner-shaped ad up above the &quot;article/discussion/edit/history/delete/move/watch&quot; links, nestled in between the Teletraan 1 image and the personal toolbar. (You know, OUTSIDE of the content.) If this is a terrible idea, I will also accept $5 donations. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:14, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I've no qualms with that. That was one of the &quot;acceptable&quot; adspaces, if I recall from the old discussions.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 11:18, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Long as they don't dance or talk or sing, that'll work. Are we actively pursuing advertisers these days? -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 11:22, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Well, &quot;actively pursuing advertisers&quot; is somewhat incompatible with our current ad setup. To put an ad on our site now, that requires signing up with Project Wonderful and bidding. This is good for us because it's mostly automated. If we were to set up a &quot;real&quot; in the traditional sense, we'd need a full-time ad pursuer to fill those spots. The best we can do in our current situation is to try to convince Big Bad Toy Store and its ilk to sign up for Project Wonderful. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 11:33, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :IIRC, above-the-article is what we wanted Wikia to switch ''back'' to. I have no objection. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 12:20, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Works for me. How does Ant handle TFU.info's advertising? [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 12:35, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Doesn't bother me... but can we either put it ''under'' the personal bar, or somehow make it so the personal bar would wrap? Otherwise, I'm staring at the top of my screen and realizing that I'd have an annoying horizontal scroll bar afterwards whenever I'm logged in.<br /> :I have to admit I'm kind of befuddled that we're apparently doing so much more traffic after the move than we were before, to the point of having all those initial problems because we weren't expecting it. Did the new server somehow improve our traffic, it is sheer coincidence that traffic increased for other reasons, or was it more like the old server wasn't keeping track of bandwidth or anything, so we had no idea how we were actually doing? --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 12:38, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Hosting with Bookworm was cheap. I mean, he was doing it at-cost. Or would have, if he ever invoiced us. Now that we've moved on, we're purchasing hosting from people who actually want to make money off us. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 12:41, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Well, the money's part of it, but I was also thinking about how most of our initial operational troubles seemed to stem from having more traffic to deal with than we realized we were going to have, to the point of even having to run a caching setup I'm guessing we weren't running on the old server. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 12:45, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::The way Bookworm had his servers set up, it was difficult for him to separate out what was our traffic versus what was other traffic on the same server. He gave us an estimate which turned out to be wrong. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 12:55, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Aah, OK. Wasn't sure if it was something we needed to worry about or not. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 13:29, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::::I was kinda expecting this :( I'm cool with more banners, and I think you should beg us for money now and then. We may be able to help when we can. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:15, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Yeah, that's mainly what I thought Walky meant. Nestled between the personal bar and the article tabs seems like fertile ground for a banner ad.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 13:39, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> I've got the ad code ready to go, whenever we can edit the CSS or whatever to make room. Here is our awesome new placeholder &quot;please bid here&quot; graphic: [https://www.projectwonderful.com/imagewrapper.php?img=img/uploads/pics/20719-1244569575.jpg&amp;rand=439981] --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:48, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Looks good so far. Potentially odd question: are these particular dimensions popular with Project Wonderful?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 15:55, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::The Leaderboard (700ishx90) and the Big Box (300x250) are the most popular sizes, but those would really ugly up our page. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:58, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::And now it has its first client! That was fast.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 01:52, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Ahhh, Dreamland Chronicles is awesome. I spent a week a few months back reading through their archives after following an ad on our sidebar. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 02:20, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::One interesting thing looking at the Project Wonderful stats is that our ad hits are ''stabilizing'' now, and they're stabilizing fairly high relative to where they were when the site was still spotty. That's got to look good for advertisers, and if the site holds up to the abuse that the film debut is going to subject it to that's only beneficial to us in the end.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 02:48, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> [[Image:Ptbar-notmeanttobehere.png|thumb|This = bad]]<br /> Uh, I'm using Monobook, and as a result of this, the watchlist/preferences/etc bar has somehow ended up at the ''bottom'' of the page, just above the About Transformers Wiki/Powered by MediaWiki/etc... - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 10:36, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I got that on a couple of pages, too, and alt+F5ing didn't work. How I fixed it was I signed out and viewed those same pages as an anon. The userbar went back to where it should be, and it stayed there when I logged in again. - [[User:Magnus Maximus|Magnus Maximus]] 10:49, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Tried that, didn't work.<br /> ::In fact, it's worse than I thought, because I didn't notice at first that the page/discussion/edit tabs have gone wandering too, and are floating around the place (the &quot;discussion&quot; and &quot;edit&quot; tabs are currently in the middle of this edit box, and I can't see the others anywhere). - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 10:58, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::'''THE PROBLEM IS IN common.css'''.<br /> :::The following CSS borks monobook. This is why you should use the specific stylesheets for each skin, NOT the common file:<br /> &lt;pre&gt;<br /> #p-personal {<br /> position: relative;<br /> }<br /> <br /> <br /> #p-personal .pBody {<br /> float: right;<br /> }<br /> <br /> #p-cactions {<br /> position: relative;<br /> }<br /> <br /> #content {<br /> margin-top: 16px !important;<br /> position: relative;<br /> }&lt;/pre&gt;<br /> :::-[[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 11:30, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> The new ad space at the top of the page, which was fine yesterday, is now looking screwy in Firefox, with the ad behind the top of the Autobot symbol in the logo and the tabs at the top of the bar. Like so: [[Image:Top-ad-screwy.jpg|thumb]] --[[User:KilMichaelMcC|KilMichaelMcC]] 16:43, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Works fine for me in 3.0.10 and 3.5b99, both after clearing cache.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 16:47, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I made some CSS modifications in response to SanityOrMadness's issue, which may cache improperly. Try a hard refresh/clearing your cache. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 16:51, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> {{-}}<br /> <br /> ==Consolidate front page?==<br /> [[Image:Newfrontpage062009.jpg|thumb]]<br /> Man, that front banner is huge! Can it be smaller? And when we make it smaller, can we stack up the top-most two boxes next to it like so? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 15:58, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> : The cropped image shown, of course, is just a placeholder. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:00, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::That looks about as clunky as Wikia's frontpage, IMO.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 16:05, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Well, it's not fine-tuned or anything. Thing is, either that banner's going to be cut down or removed entirely. It's huge, it's bandwidth-wasting, and it pushes all our real content down off the page. What's your choice? --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:07, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::I'm probably knee-jerking based on the placement of the boxes. I guess it could be made to work if it's finessed a bit. It's not like we're running a ginormous ad there like Wikia was suggesting.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 16:31, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::I dunno, personally I like this new idea. It reminds me of how our franchise navs look: Logo on the left, linkage on the right. Plus, yeah, unlike Wikia, our content on the right of the logo will actually be... content.<br /> :::::As for logo ideas, why don't we make a few different options where it's the TFWiki.net logo over a pic of a single character? We could have one for Prime, Megatron, Starscream, Jazz, etc. using the &lt;OPTION&gt; thingy. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:37, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::As long as the site-name logo thing itself is HUGE. I really want to make sure the URL is shoved in your face. Branding continues to be important as we war against Wikia for Google prominence. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:40, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::If branding's important, why not change the actual on-every-page logo to use the actual TFWiki.net logo? And put TFWiki.net in the page &amp;lt;title&amp;gt;? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 11:01, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Alternately, each one could be a group shot from a different franchise, with the font altered to match. Play up how many different continuities there are, eh?--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 17:00, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> [[Image:Newfrontpage062009b.jpg|thumb]]<br /> ::::::::This image to the right is what I'm now thinking. And it should probably have movie characters predominantly, at least for the next few months. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 17:04, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::I'm inclined to agree with sticking with the movie characters now, considering it's almost two weeks till the US premiere/release. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 17:19, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> That's pretty darn good. Brings a lot more info above the fold, and the layout's pretty clean. The white background is good too, so any other images in the rotation should follow that example.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 17:21, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :How do we make it done? The table markup on the frontpage is foreign to me. I'll upload the new image itself... --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 17:32, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Since Derik doesn't seem to be about yet, I'll have a go with it. Hmm. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:42, 9 June 2009 (EDT)--[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 17:42, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Actually, we're really going to have to do something like your first example above, with the Continuity/Category tables underneath each other instead of side-by-side, because trying to fit the logo and the two tables all side-by-side looks hideously awful on a 1024px-wide screen. I tried just simply having the smaller logo, the text notices under it, and the two tables on the right, but it looked kind of... eh. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:04, 9 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Mrr. OK, I made ''an'' attempt at tweaking, although I think it's going to need some external CSS tweaks at least, if only to center the Continuities table. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 03:44, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Looks okay, but the jarring thing about it is that the red and blue boxes aren't the same width, though they share a column.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 16:19, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::That's something Derik needs to tweak in the Featured box template and/or external CSS... I can't do it just by editing the page itself.<br /> ::::::Also, yea or nay on the link buttons? It just seemed a little more &quot;Click me!&quot; than the paragraph o' links. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:49, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> : I'm a little ambivalent towards the &quot;new&quot; logo, just because I think it's a little bland, although I'm sure it's a work in progress. I am all for putting &quot;TFWIKI.net&quot; in the header and all over the fucking place as a branding effort, though. On a slightly related note, I'd consider flipping the &quot;current series&quot; in said box, so ROTF is closer to the center of the page and Animated is on the outside - if we're really trying to bring in ROTF traffic, having that logo front and center is probably a pretty smart idea. I also like the idea of a rotating logo box - maybe we even jigger it so that it links directly to the article for whoever's in it - like the Go! Boxes, but focused entirely on core characters (More Fallen, Movie Optimus, etc., less Irwin Spoon and Dinobots Strike Back). Stick with primary Movie-verse guys for now, and then in a month or so when the hype dies down, we can start to shuffle in some sufficiently advanced and significant articles (making sure that the characters are both important to the fiction and that their articles are nearly, if not entirely complete). [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 11:17, 10 June 2009 (EDT)</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Suki_Brits&diff=309943 2009-06-10T19:02:40Z

<p>Suki Brits: /* &quot;Fixed&quot; Monobook */</p> <hr /> <div>OH MY GOD YOU'RE REALLY NEALE DAVIDSON!!!! [[User:Hooper X|Hooper X]] 05:21, 12 March 2006 (UTC)<br /> <br /> [[User talk:Suki Brits/2006|2006 Archives]]<br /> <br /> [[User talk:Suki Brits/2007|2007 Archives]]<br /> <br /> == Log-in Problem ==<br /> <br /> Hi Suki Brits,<br /> I log-in, go to edit a page and I get this message: <br /> ''Have you forgotten to log in? A user name helps you track your contributions and communicate with other users. If you don't log in, your IP address will show up in the page history.''<br /> I use Firefox as my browser and I was hoping you tell me how to fix this problem.<br /> [[User:69.19.14.19|69.19.14.19]] 18:39, 31 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> :I left a response on your [[User_talk:69.19.14.19|talk page]], which I'm linking to here in case you actually have a rotating IP address and aren't automatically informed. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 05:10, 1 February 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Image Uploading ==<br /> <br /> Hi,<br /> <br /> I'm having problems with image uploading. When I use the toolbar to upload I can browse, select and rename a file just fine, but when I get to the caption/thumbnail window nothing works (size slider, right/left indicator) and the Upload Image button doesn't work at all. Am I the only person with these problems? I'm using Firefox 2.0 on a Mac. I tried to upload an image yesterday, but I couldn't find it on the Upload Log. <br /> <br /> Thanks for any help or suggestions. I'm going over to the Help section to see if I'm doing something wrong.--[[User:Suzyprime|Suzyprime]] 13:03, 7 February 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Thanks for your help. I will try your suggestion.--[[User:Suzyprime|Suzyprime]] 13:12, 9 February 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Act Fast, Act Now ==<br /> <br /> [[User:Giant_MonkeyMen_Are_Coming_2_Destroy_The_World_And_I_Think_They_Like|Two for the price of one.]] [[User:Giant_MonkeyMen_R_Coming_2_Destroy_The_World_%26_I_Think_They_Like_Pie_So_We_Better_Start_Baking_To_Appease_Them|Operators are standing by.]] (Feel free to deny recognition afterward.)--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 16:40, 26 February 2008 (UTC)<br /> ==Head wars==<br /> Please visit the [[Talk:Megatron (Movie)]] page, read the head wars discussion, and give me your answer. Thank you. [[User:Inferno'sQueen|The Big Q]] 19:38, 13 March 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Hmmm.==<br /> I don't think you should tell jokes in a computer encyclopedia like here. [[User:Black rhino ranger|Black rhino ranger]] 16:07, 8 April 2008 (UTC)<br /> : [[Talk:Main_Page|Ahem.]] --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 16:12, 8 April 2008 (UTC)<br /> :Oh God, we've got a live one.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 16:10, 8 April 2008 (UTC)<br /> One what? [[User:Black rhino ranger|Black rhino ranger]] 11:01, 11 April 2008 (UTC)<br /> :One person who thinks they can show up out of nowhere and tell all the long-time contributors to this wiki that they're doing it wrong. [[User:JW|JW]] 11:40, 11 April 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Yeah, I'm spamming ==<br /> <br /> Canvassing a few talkpages here so we can get folks to weigh in and finalize the potential Wiki image policy. Your input would be appreciated at [[Transformers Wiki talk:Images]].--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 18:34, 20 April 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Stub-striking Sock Puppets? ==<br /> <br /> You already gave [[User:202.163.208.50|one person]] a time-out for deleting random stuff from pages. It seems we have [[User talk:202.163.208.50|one]] or [[User talk:222.126.100.146|two]] other IPs exhibiting similar behavior. Or it could be one guy with a dynamic IP, I guess.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 14:17, 8 May 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::''De nada'', happy to be of help.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 18:16, 8 May 2008 (UTC)<br /> :::[[User talk:202.163.208.50|Someone's]] still at it. Didn't learn from the one-day vacation, it seems.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 07:00, 9 May 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Burgeoning Pest ==<br /> <br /> [[Special:Contributions/99.164.38.106|Someone new]] is starting to make a nuisance of him/herself. Perhaps not worth action yet, but worth watching just in case, I think.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 20:35, 28 May 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Account exists but it doesn't ==<br /> <br /> Hi. This is actually [[User:Aurax|Aurax]], but in my inactivity here (spanning quite some time, as I look now), my account had gone inactive or had some other wire disconnected. Trying to login with the credentials I know to be correct, and I'm notified that the [[User:Aurax|username Aurax]] doesn't exist. If I attempt to create the account again, I'm given a different error message that looks like a holdover from Wikia error scripts. If this is something that will be healed following the crash, I'm fine with that. I just couldn't find anything relating to this in discussion of the crash anywhere in the Damage Control or Community Portal areas. The email in my profile is good if you want to get in touch, or I'll keep checking back here and on my page. [[Special:Contributions/71.191.107.74|71.191.107.74]] 01:04, 3 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :You should be able to recreate this by using the ''exact'' same verification as your old Wikia account. If it doesn't match, it should prevent you from grabbing the username.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 01:08, 3 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I just went back to Teletraan I to check my account there. I'm using the same credentials on both sites (and I've been equally as inactive over there, so it wouldn't have changed after the split). [[User:Aurax|Aurax]] aka [[Special:Contributions/71.191.107.74|71.191.107.74]] 02:58, 3 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == &quot;Fixed&quot; Monobook ==<br /> <br /> [[Image:TFWiki-Monobookquotefixedunquote.png|thumb]]<br /> {{quote|...but also fixing some REALLY BAD DESIGN in Monobook. why the hell is everything absolutely positioned?|You, [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&amp;diff=309383&amp;oldid=207765 in making the changes that borked Monobook}}<br /> See the results in the image on the right. I've checked, it's the changes from absolute to relative that did it, and have patched my user CSS accordingly. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 14:47, 10 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Oh, whoops, my bad. I forgot that we still have plain Monobook installed, using a different file. I've moved the changes to a Monacobook specific CSS file now. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 15:02, 10 June 2009 (EDT)</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&diff=309941 2009-06-10T18:59:58Z

<p>Suki Brits: Relocating to a Monacobook specific css file</p> <hr /> <div>/***** CSS placed here will be applied to all skins on the entire site. *****/<br /> /* &lt;s&gt;See also: [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]]&lt;/s&gt; */<br /> /* Or actually don't see it, because it's not useful. Only Common.css and your */<br /> /* your own custom css files get loaded. */<br /> /* &lt;pre&gt; */<br /> <br /> @import &quot;http://emopanda.com/tmp/tfwiki_tmp_global.css&quot;;<br /> <br /> /* Mark redirects in Special:Allpages and Special:Watchlist */<br /> .allpagesredirect { font-style: italic; }<br /> .watchlistredir { font-style: italic; }<br /> <br /> /* Giving headers and TOC a little extra space */<br /> h2 {margin-top: 20px;}<br /> <br /> .toc {margin-top: 20px;}<br /> <br /> /* Infobox template style */<br /> .infobox {<br /> border: 1px solid #aaaaaa;<br /> background-color: #f9f9f9;<br /> color: black;<br /> margin-bottom: 0.5em;<br /> margin-left: 1em;<br /> padding: 0.2em;<br /> float: right;<br /> clear: right;<br /> }<br /> .infobox td,<br /> .infobox th {<br /> vertical-align: top;<br /> }<br /> .infobox caption {<br /> font-size: larger;<br /> margin-left: inherit;<br /> }<br /> .infobox.bordered {<br /> border-collapse: collapse;<br /> }<br /> .infobox.bordered td,<br /> .infobox.bordered th {<br /> border: 1px solid #aaaaaa;<br /> }<br /> .infobox.bordered .borderless td,<br /> .infobox.bordered .borderless th {<br /> border: 0;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* Forum formatting (by -Algorithm &amp; -Splaka) */<br /> .forumheader {<br /> border: 1px solid #aaa;<br /> background-color: #f9f9f9; margin-top: 1em; padding: 12px;<br /> }<br /> .forumlist td.forum_edited a {<br /> color: black; text-decoration: none<br /> }<br /> .forumlist td.forum_title a {<br /> padding-left: 20px;<br /> }<br /> .forumlist td.forum_title a.forum_new {<br /> font-weight: bold; background: url(/images/4/4e/Forum_new.gif)<br /> center left no-repeat; padding-left: 20px;<br /> }<br /> .forumlist td.forum_title a.forum_new:visited {<br /> font-weight: normal; background: none; padding-left: 20px;<br /> }<br /> .forumlist th.forum_title {<br /> padding-left: 20px;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* Recent changes byte indicators */<br /> .mw-plusminus-pos { color: #006500; }<br /> .mw-plusminus-neg { color: #8B0000; }<br /> <br /> <br /> /* wikitable/prettytable class for skinning normal tables */<br /> /* everything below is imported from Monobook.css, blame Derik if it blows up */<br /> <br /> table.wikitable,<br /> table.prettytable {<br /> margin: 1em 1em 1em 0;<br /> background: #f9f9f9;<br /> border: 1px #aaa solid;<br /> border-collapse: collapse;<br /> }<br /> <br /> table.wikitable th, table.wikitable td,<br /> table.prettytable th, table.prettytable td {<br /> border: 1px #aaa solid;<br /> padding: 0.2em;<br /> }<br /> <br /> table.wikitable th,<br /> table.prettytable th {<br /> background: #f2f2f2;<br /> text-align: center;<br /> }<br /> <br /> table.wikitable caption,<br /> table.prettytable caption {<br /> margin-left: inherit;<br /> margin-right: inherit;<br /> font-weight: bold;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* TELETRAN-1 SPECIFIC BITS */<br /> <br /> .tt1_nowrap {<br /> white-space: nowrap;<br /> }</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&diff=309383 2009-06-09T19:46:25Z

<p>Suki Brits: </p> <hr /> <div>/***** CSS placed here will be applied to all skins on the entire site. *****/<br /> /* &lt;s&gt;See also: [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]]&lt;/s&gt; */<br /> /* Or actually don't see it, because it's not useful. Only Common.css and your */<br /> /* your own custom css files get loaded. */<br /> /* &lt;pre&gt; */<br /> <br /> @import &quot;http://emopanda.com/tmp/tfwiki_tmp_global.css&quot;;<br /> <br /> /* Mark redirects in Special:Allpages and Special:Watchlist */<br /> .allpagesredirect { font-style: italic; }<br /> .watchlistredir { font-style: italic; }<br /> <br /> /* Giving headers and TOC a little extra space */<br /> h2 {margin-top: 20px;}<br /> <br /> .toc {margin-top: 20px;}<br /> <br /> /* Infobox template style */<br /> .infobox {<br /> border: 1px solid #aaaaaa;<br /> background-color: #f9f9f9;<br /> color: black;<br /> margin-bottom: 0.5em;<br /> margin-left: 1em;<br /> padding: 0.2em;<br /> float: right;<br /> clear: right;<br /> }<br /> .infobox td,<br /> .infobox th {<br /> vertical-align: top;<br /> }<br /> .infobox caption {<br /> font-size: larger;<br /> margin-left: inherit;<br /> }<br /> .infobox.bordered {<br /> border-collapse: collapse;<br /> }<br /> .infobox.bordered td,<br /> .infobox.bordered th {<br /> border: 1px solid #aaaaaa;<br /> }<br /> .infobox.bordered .borderless td,<br /> .infobox.bordered .borderless th {<br /> border: 0;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* Forum formatting (by -Algorithm &amp; -Splaka) */<br /> .forumheader {<br /> border: 1px solid #aaa;<br /> background-color: #f9f9f9; margin-top: 1em; padding: 12px;<br /> }<br /> .forumlist td.forum_edited a {<br /> color: black; text-decoration: none<br /> }<br /> .forumlist td.forum_title a {<br /> padding-left: 20px;<br /> }<br /> .forumlist td.forum_title a.forum_new {<br /> font-weight: bold; background: url(/images/4/4e/Forum_new.gif)<br /> center left no-repeat; padding-left: 20px;<br /> }<br /> .forumlist td.forum_title a.forum_new:visited {<br /> font-weight: normal; background: none; padding-left: 20px;<br /> }<br /> .forumlist th.forum_title {<br /> padding-left: 20px;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* Recent changes byte indicators */<br /> .mw-plusminus-pos { color: #006500; }<br /> .mw-plusminus-neg { color: #8B0000; }<br /> <br /> <br /> /* wikitable/prettytable class for skinning normal tables */<br /> /* everything below is imported from Monobook.css, blame Derik if it blows up */<br /> <br /> table.wikitable,<br /> table.prettytable {<br /> margin: 1em 1em 1em 0;<br /> background: #f9f9f9;<br /> border: 1px #aaa solid;<br /> border-collapse: collapse;<br /> }<br /> <br /> table.wikitable th, table.wikitable td,<br /> table.prettytable th, table.prettytable td {<br /> border: 1px #aaa solid;<br /> padding: 0.2em;<br /> }<br /> <br /> table.wikitable th,<br /> table.prettytable th {<br /> background: #f2f2f2;<br /> text-align: center;<br /> }<br /> <br /> table.wikitable caption,<br /> table.prettytable caption {<br /> margin-left: inherit;<br /> margin-right: inherit;<br /> font-weight: bold;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* TELETRAN-1 SPECIFIC BITS */<br /> <br /> .tt1_nowrap {<br /> white-space: nowrap;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* Fixes paving way for a new header ad, */<br /> /* but also fixing some REALLY BAD DESIGN */<br /> /* in Monobook. why the hell is everything absolutely positioned? */<br /> <br /> #p-personal {<br /> position: relative;<br /> }<br /> <br /> #top-ad {<br /> width: 468px;<br /> margin: 0;<br /> padding: 0;<br /> margin-left: 260px;<br /> float: left;<br /> }<br /> <br /> #p-personal .pBody {<br /> float: right;<br /> }<br /> <br /> #p-cactions {<br /> position: relative;<br /> }<br /> <br /> #content {<br /> margin-top: 16px !important;<br /> position: relative;<br /> }</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&diff=309361 2009-06-09T19:24:58Z

<p>Suki Brits: </p> <hr /> <div>/***** CSS placed here will be applied to all skins on the entire site. *****/<br /> /* &lt;s&gt;See also: [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]]&lt;/s&gt; */<br /> /* Or actually don't see it, because it's not useful. Only Common.css and your */<br /> /* your own custom css files get loaded. */<br /> /* &lt;pre&gt; */<br /> <br /> @import &quot;http://emopanda.com/tmp/tfwiki_tmp_global.css&quot;;<br /> <br /> /* Mark redirects in Special:Allpages and Special:Watchlist */<br /> .allpagesredirect { font-style: italic; }<br /> .watchlistredir { font-style: italic; }<br /> <br /> /* Giving headers and TOC a little extra space */<br /> h2 {margin-top: 20px;}<br /> <br /> .toc {margin-top: 20px;}<br /> <br /> /* Infobox template style */<br /> .infobox {<br /> border: 1px solid #aaaaaa;<br /> background-color: #f9f9f9;<br /> color: black;<br /> margin-bottom: 0.5em;<br /> margin-left: 1em;<br /> padding: 0.2em;<br /> float: right;<br /> clear: right;<br /> }<br /> .infobox td,<br /> .infobox th {<br /> vertical-align: top;<br /> }<br /> .infobox caption {<br /> font-size: larger;<br /> margin-left: inherit;<br /> }<br /> .infobox.bordered {<br /> border-collapse: collapse;<br /> }<br /> .infobox.bordered td,<br /> .infobox.bordered th {<br /> border: 1px solid #aaaaaa;<br /> }<br /> .infobox.bordered .borderless td,<br /> .infobox.bordered .borderless th {<br /> border: 0;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* Forum formatting (by -Algorithm &amp; -Splaka) */<br /> .forumheader {<br /> border: 1px solid #aaa;<br /> background-color: #f9f9f9; margin-top: 1em; padding: 12px;<br /> }<br /> .forumlist td.forum_edited a {<br /> color: black; text-decoration: none<br /> }<br /> .forumlist td.forum_title a {<br /> padding-left: 20px;<br /> }<br /> .forumlist td.forum_title a.forum_new {<br /> font-weight: bold; background: url(/images/4/4e/Forum_new.gif)<br /> center left no-repeat; padding-left: 20px;<br /> }<br /> .forumlist td.forum_title a.forum_new:visited {<br /> font-weight: normal; background: none; padding-left: 20px;<br /> }<br /> .forumlist th.forum_title {<br /> padding-left: 20px;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* Recent changes byte indicators */<br /> .mw-plusminus-pos { color: #006500; }<br /> .mw-plusminus-neg { color: #8B0000; }<br /> <br /> <br /> /* wikitable/prettytable class for skinning normal tables */<br /> /* everything below is imported from Monobook.css, blame Derik if it blows up */<br /> <br /> table.wikitable,<br /> table.prettytable {<br /> margin: 1em 1em 1em 0;<br /> background: #f9f9f9;<br /> border: 1px #aaa solid;<br /> border-collapse: collapse;<br /> }<br /> <br /> table.wikitable th, table.wikitable td,<br /> table.prettytable th, table.prettytable td {<br /> border: 1px #aaa solid;<br /> padding: 0.2em;<br /> }<br /> <br /> table.wikitable th,<br /> table.prettytable th {<br /> background: #f2f2f2;<br /> text-align: center;<br /> }<br /> <br /> table.wikitable caption,<br /> table.prettytable caption {<br /> margin-left: inherit;<br /> margin-right: inherit;<br /> font-weight: bold;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* TELETRAN-1 SPECIFIC BITS */<br /> <br /> .tt1_nowrap {<br /> white-space: nowrap;<br /> }<br /> <br /> /* Fixes paving way for a new header ad, */<br /> /* but also fixing some REALLY BAD DESIGN */<br /> /* in Monobook. why the hell is everything absolutely positioned? */<br /> <br /> #p-personal {<br /> position: relative;<br /> }<br /> <br /> #top-ad {<br /> width: 468px;<br /> height: 90px;<br /> margin: 0;<br /> padding: 0;<br /> margin-left: 260px;<br /> float: left;<br /> }<br /> <br /> #p-personal .pBody {<br /> float: right;<br /> }<br /> <br /> #p-cactions {<br /> position: relative;<br /> }<br /> <br /> #content {<br /> margin-top: 16px !important;<br /> position: relative;<br /> }</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki_talk:Community_Portal&diff=308591 2009-06-08T18:02:15Z

<p>Suki Brits: /* Possible Relicensing? */</p> <hr /> <div>__NEWSECTIONLINK__<br /> <br /> This is the place for discussion of topics that affect the entire wiki. Some topics that would ordinarily be here have merited their own pages:<br /> <br /> '''The move away from Wikia:'''<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki:Community Portal/Complaints]]<br /> <br /> '''Our policy on having ads in the wiki:'''<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki:Ads]]<br /> <br /> '''The Bookworm database-crash:'''<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central]]<br /> * [[Project:Bookworm Crash]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving2]]<br /> <br /> '''The server move:'''<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving2]]<br /> <br /> {{chapters<br /> |title=Community Portal Archives<br /> |content=*[[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive1|Archive 1]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive2|Archive 2]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive3|Archive 3]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive4|Archive 4]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive5|Archive 5]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive6|Archive 6]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive7|Archive 7]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive8|Archive 8]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive9|Archive 9]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive10|Archive 10]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive11|Archive 11]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive12|Archive 12]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive13|Archive 13]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive14|Archive 14]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive15|Archive 15]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive16|Archive 16]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive17|Archive 17]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive18|Archive 18]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive19|Archive 19]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive20|Archive 20]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive21|Archive 21]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive22|Archive 22]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive23|Archive 23]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive24|Archive 24]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive25|Archive 25]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive26|Archive 26]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive27|Archive 27]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive28|Archive 28]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive29|Archive 29]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive30|Archive 30]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive31|Archive 31]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive32|Archive 32]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive33|Archive 33]]<br /> }}<br /> <br /> <br /> == Quotes ==<br /> {{note|This discussion was moved from [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central#Quotes]].}}<br /> <br /> Quotes now seem to look like this:<br /> <br /> {{quote|Freedom is the right of all sentient beings|Optimus Prime}}<br /> <br /> when IIRC before the crash they look like this:<br /> <br /> {{bigquote|Freedom is the right of all sentient beings|Optimus Prime}}<br /> <br /> Now, it seems we can get the second result using the &lt;nowiki&gt;{{bigquote}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; template instead of the basic &lt;nowiki&gt;{{quote}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; template that is currently populating most of the pages.<br /> <br /> I'm of the opinion that the bigquote look is much more pleasing to the eye and it also seemed to be the norm before the crash. Should we change the quotes to bigquotes on individual pages or just have someone with template knowledge make a change there? --[[User:Bluestreak7|Bluestreak7]] 23:29, 5 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Discussion on [[Template_talk:Quote]] suggests that bigquote is the old style and quote is the new style. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 01:37, 6 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Mind you I didn't ''ask'' anyone before swapping styles-- the intention was to give people a chance to evaluate the new look, but we only had it for a few days before the crash... so I don't think anyone noticed. :p<br /> ::It's my opinion that the old quote template took up too much space-- which is find for a single quote at the top of an article when you want to make a big thing of it, but I thought ''most'' uses of the template would look nicer with s smaller visual footprint. (Plus the html is more contextual.)<br /> ::Some people seem to dislike the chevron-style quoting... it's consistent with what, at the time, were our new reference templates-- also lost in the crash. The real appeal, to me, is that it lets you put quotes ''inside'' the quote template (such as an exchange between characters) without looking weird. The way we ''used'' to do that was multiple quote templates in a row, which (being oversize already) resulted in a massive on-screen footprint.<br /> ::If the consensus is to switch to the bigQuote format for all quotes instead of the smaller one, I guess that's the community's perogative... but I'm gonna argue against it until that decision is made.<br /> ::I ''like'' bitQuote-- it's great if you want a quote to be a big thing. Most of the time you don't. When you do-- why not just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{bigquote}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:48, 6 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Ahhh, my mistake! I coulda sworn I'd seen quote in use longer! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 01:55, 6 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Why I don't like &quot;quote&quot;:<br /> ::#It's ugly.<br /> ::#It's '''bigger''' than bigQuote. That seems to defeat the whole point.<br /> ::#Single guillemots ''don't get used as quotation marks in English'' and so '''they don't parse as quotation marks'''.<br /> ::#It's '''incredibly''' ugly.<br /> ::#And finally-if-slightly-tangentially, there's a conscious effort, it seems, to change all &quot;bigquotes&quot; to &quot;quotes&quot;, which defeats the whole point of having two templates.<br /> ::Definite vote to revert - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 11:35, 6 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> I vote against the revert. I do not like the old quote style, as noted on the above-linked discussion page. All we need to do is change the guillemots to quote marks and it's fine by me. --[[User:M Sipher|M Sipher]] 04:08, 9 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> In accordance with the general wishes of the community, the quotes have been changed from guillemots to standard quotation... though I think it looks terribly ''silly'' that way. You can see just how silly over at [[Template_talk:Quote]]. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:57, 10 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Well, one day after updating the quote template, I finally ran into ''exactly'' the scenario I was talking about in regards to quotes within quotes. I need to quote this passage (which includes but is not composed exclusively of dialog) for an article. <br /> {{quote|&quot;Farewell Optimus prime,&quot; [Starscream] whispered to himself. &quot;Time for Endspark.&quot;|[[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]|&lt;u&gt;[[Ghosts of Yesterday]]&lt;/u&gt; p280}}<br /> :That looks absolutely retarded. The guillemots may have been ugly-- but they were at least ''clear''. And none of the user suggestions (including [[User:Abates]] idea of using multiple parameters for a series of quotes) applies here-- because the text is ''inline''.<br /> :You all suck. Does anyone have any suggestions ''other'' than guillemots to make that look less retarded? Because &lt;nowiki&gt;{{bigquote}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; looks even ''worse''. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 02:53, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::[http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp Rule four] suggests it should look like this:<br /> {{quote|'Farewell Optimus prime,' [Starscream] whispered to himself. 'Time for Endspark.'|[[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]|&lt;u&gt;[[Ghosts of Yesterday]]&lt;/u&gt; p280}}<br /> ::although you could also use &amp;lsquo; and &amp;rsquo; maybe? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 03:33, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I have restore the guillemots as an ''optional flag.'' (style=2) The entire ''point'' of using a non-english quotation mark was to avoid conflicts with English quotation marks, so the guillemots seem like a good fallback position when there is a conflict.<br /> {{quote|'Farewell Optimus prime,' [Starscream] whispered to himself. 'Time for Endspark.'|[[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]|&lt;u&gt;[[Ghosts of Yesterday]]&lt;/u&gt; p280|style=2}}<br /> :::This necessitated html and css changes, so some quotes may look funny for the next 24 hours or so until the pages de-cache. (They'll preview properly, and if you save them they'll look right... but left on their own they will re-cache with the updated &lt;nowiki&gt;{{quote}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; HTML in short order, so don't bother.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:50, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Uh, why not take the easy route. '''Leave out the opening and closing quotation marks when you post''', and the template fills them in. i.e., <br /> {{quote|Farewell Optimus prime,&quot; [Starscream] whispered to himself. &quot;Time for Endspark.|[[Starscream (Movie)|Starscream]]|&lt;u&gt;[[Ghosts of Yesterday]]&lt;/u&gt; p280}}<br /> ::There you go, simple and doesn't involve guillemots that don't parse for anyone. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 05:01, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::What a lovely mix of smart and dumb quotes you have created. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 05:46, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Given the use of a monospaced font, it doesn't make sense to use &quot;smart&quot; quotation marks anyway... - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 07:24, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I prefer the old style quotes. Nobody can make me use the new ones. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 06:09, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I agree, for all the reasons that SanityOrMadness listed above (especially points 1, 2 and 4)[[Special:Contributions/81.108.237.26|81.108.237.26]] 13:44, 18 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I completely don't care about this discussion, but I must take the time to point out that it's &quot;guillemet&quot;. &quot;Guillemot&quot; is a bird, which is decidedly not relevant to this discussion. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 03:49, 16 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> I don't think the normal quotes show up properly in IE6 and a normal quote overlaps an image on http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Protoform so that needs to be fixed or bigquote restored.[[Special:Contributions/81.108.237.26|81.108.237.26]] 11:08, 22 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :That's a note, not a quote. The site unfortunately has plenty of problems in IE6, mostly caused by Microsoft's crappy rendering engine. A few of them linger in IE7 too... We really need to come up with a replacement for the messageboxes which doesn't lose the right-hand edge for one thing. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 17:48, 22 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> == Redirects while editing ==<br /> <br /> Go to [[User:Derik/Sandbox7]], hit edit, then ''preview''. (Hitting shift-refresh might be required to clear out your CSS cache if the effect isn't apparent.)<br /> <br /> Links to redirects are highlighted ''in preview mode only''. If it's not highlighted, you know you're pointing to an actual page rather than a redirect. Should probably make it easier to just ''guess'' on a lot of links while still being assured you're picking valid ones.<br /> <br /> (Pink is a terrible color to use for this. Any suggestions on how this should be styled? Sparkle-background?) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:46, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Would making them simply &lt;span style=&quot;text-decoration: underline; color: blue&quot;&gt;underlined&lt;/span&gt; be too subtle? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 23:15, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I worry it's too subtle. What about &lt;span style=&quot;text-decoration: underline;border-bottom: 3px double; color: blue;cursor: help;&quot; title=&quot;I'm Rick James bitch, and ''this'' is linking to a redirect!&quot;&gt;this&lt;/span&gt;?<br /> ::If that's too subtle I could break out the sparkling text and have the wiki chant &quot;Septus, Dominus!&quot; every time you mouse over it...-[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:30, 12 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Aw, what's wrong with the pink? I think that one's clear enough. [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 00:39, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Not bad. At least this way it'll be easier to catch the redirects, applying changes when necessary. Although pink... I think it'd be better if the color was a different contrast if it's in the colored section of the templates (as in the episode/comic templates). --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 01:34, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Abates suggested underlining... since the redirects ''only'' show up that way when in preview mode, I think it'd be a good idea to have multiple visual indications. (I don't think the previous/next links on the comicnav, for example, will change color... because they already ''have'' a color set. If you have multiple indicators (color underline, etc...) chances are at least one will remain noticable no matter what happens.<br /> :Does anyone hate the blinking? (It's a firefox-only style.) Normally I HATE anything that blinks because its distracting, but the whole point here is to be able to easily spot the redirects. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:58, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Eh, blinking's fine. Not that of a biggy for me. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 02:08, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::It's only in the preview and not in the saved pages, so the blinking is ok so far as I'm concerned! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 02:15, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I think the feature is great? But yes, I hate the blinking. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 10:03, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> This might be a good time to mention this, but just because a link is pink and flashy doesn't necessarily mean it is a mistake needing fixing, right? It is sometimes OK to use redirect links. If you are talking about Goldbug it is OK (and preferable in my opinion) to link to [[Goldbug (G1)]] and let the redirect do the work. I think having it stand out so much would tend to have editors feel the need to clean them all out. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 10:17, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::There is potential for that. I agree that sometimes redirects are okay... &lt;nowiki&gt;*shrug*&lt;/nowiki&gt; -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 12:44, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> How about &quot;safety orange&quot; or yellow? Those are universal &quot;danger/warning&quot; colors. (And less puke-inducing for me than pink). I don't mind the blinking either, considering that the idea is that the indicator is ''supposed'' to annoy the hell out of you until you change it. (FWIW, the whole thing works fine in Opera 9.63, too.)<br /> <br /> As for Starfield's comment, eh, I just don't see it 99% of the time. If I wanted to link to something like Goldbug or Rodimus Prime, I would do &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Bumblebee (G1)|Goldbug]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; or &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Hot Rod (G1)|Rodimus Prime]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; instead. About the only time I could see it useful is if you were doing linking related to a spoiler (like Longarm Prime vs. Shockwave, for instance), but even then you'd still only need to do it for a month at most. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:15, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I don't personally see the sense in manually redirecting to Hot Rod when you are talking Rodimus Prime when there is perfectly valid actual redirect to use. You aren't talking about &quot;Hot Rod&quot;. It is like word-linking that way, like you are trying to fake out the reader. &quot;Rodimus Prime&quot; is that character's name in that point of the story. I always thought that was the primary purpose of having redirects, and search boxes were secondary. <br /> :Plus there is the added benefit of when you use the &quot;what links here&quot; page, you see what pages link to &quot;Rodimus Prime&quot;, which is interesting information that is lost if everything links to &quot;Hot Rod&quot;. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 17:53, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Because it's the same character. We say &quot;Spike&quot; or &quot;Daniel&quot;, but link to their full name. If someone refers to Bumblebee as a &quot;giant yellow Volkswagon robot&quot; in something, we might use that phrasing in the synopsis, but we'd still link to Bumblebee, not to &quot;giant yellow Volkswagon robot&quot; as a redirect. Etc. It's not a fakeout, it's just using the proper contextual name in the text, but cutting out the middleman for the actual link.<br /> ::Redirects can make linking easier for editors who don't know immediately what the proper link might be, so we don't end up with accidental duplicate pages (or as a shorter way to link to something like an oft-used section link), but on the whole I think it's mostly useful for searches.<br /> ::In short, while not all redirect linking is something to worry about, per se, I don't see anything wrong with encouraging editors to hunt down the correct linkage, even in those sorts of edge cases. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:19, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::&quot;Goldbug&quot; was a character in the comic [[Used Autobots]], the character was ''not'' &quot;Bumblebee&quot;. In that way, it is different than using Spike's full name, or even [[Peter Parker]] vs [[Spider-Man]]. I think a link on the [[Used Autobots]] article to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Bumblebee (G1)|Goldbug]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; is incorrect because there was no &quot;Bumblebee&quot; in the story. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 18:36, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::And yet, Bumblebee and Goldbug don't have separate articles, because we treat them as being the same character. *shrugs a little* I don't ''care'' either way, really, and wouldn't consider it worth worrying about if someone linked to Goldbug, I just don't see that as more correct. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:47, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Bumblebee/Goldbug is the same character. That is ''why'' I think it is OK to link to &quot;Goldbug&quot;, even more correct to do so when you are talking about Goldbug. &quot;Goldbug&quot; is not a nickname for &quot;Bumblebee&quot;, Goldbug is that character, at that point in the story. The article could be named &quot;Goldbug (G1)&quot; with Bumblebee redirecting to it or &quot;Bumblebee/Goldbug&quot;, but for our, somewhat arbitrary, naming rules. I don't disagree with the naming rules, but just because the article is called &quot;Bumblebee&quot; doesn't mean that that always linking to &quot;Bumblebee&quot; is correct. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 19:00, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::And yet, even if you link to Goldbug, when you click on the link, you still end up at a page titled &quot;Bumblebee (G1)&quot;. Is the little &quot;redirected from&quot; note really that crucial a difference? (Especially since the intro mentions the Goldbug change right at the top anyway.) It just seems like a difference that makes no difference to me. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:05, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Yes, when you link to Goldbug, you end up at the right spot, so why the big push to not link to Goldbug when you are talking about Goldbug? And yes, in some way I like seeing &quot;redirected from&quot;, it lets me know that Goldbug is just as correct but the title is called &quot;Bumblebee&quot; out of convenience. And don't forget about the &quot;What links here&quot; feature. It is a little useful being able to sort out the Goldbug references. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 19:19, 13 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Someone requested I link-fix a bunch of minor variants of Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime ot all point to &quot;Hot Rod (G1)&quot;. Instead I split them, pointing to &quot;Hot Rod (G1)&quot; and &quot;Rodimus Prime (G1)&quot; as appropriate-- in case we one day decide to split the articles like we do Megatron/Galvatron.<br /> ::::::The same principle applies. A split is ''unlikely'', but this way if we ''do'' split the articles, all the links are already pointing to the appropriate destination, instead of having to sort through 500+ incoming links ''by hand'' (that's abotu the number Hot Rod has...) to figure out which need to go where. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 10:57, 15 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::::::''Is the little &quot;redirected from&quot; note really that crucial a difference?''<br /> ::::::::For me, yes, it kinda is. It lets me know that the powers-that-be have decided that &quot;Goldbug&quot; is heavily subordinate to the character of Bumblebee, that they are well and truly one and the same, that there's not some other Goldbug article out there that I'm missing. That in itself is a significant bit of information, even before I've started reading the text. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 20:09, 22 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> I think that the &quot;What Links Here&quot; issue is a fair point. But IMHO if you need the little &quot;redirected from&quot; note to tell you're in the right place instead of just by reading the intro, you're either lazy or the intro needs rewriting. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:14, 22 April 2009 (EDT)&lt;br&gt;<br /> Edit: Realized I should mention that I'm liking the blinky thingy so far... it used to be annoying having to click through every new link I was adding to make sure it was the proper direct link instead of a redirect. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:18, 22 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :We should have one standard for linking or not linking to redirect pages. I much prefer being able to link to redirect pages and not get reverted, but I would go along with the other way if that is the standard. I started a draft proposal for a standard to be added to the style guide at my [[User:Starfield/Redirect linking|sandbox]]. Please feel free to comment or edit it or add reasons for/against. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 10:51, 8 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> ==Franchise identifier consistency==<br /> At the moment, we have 34 &quot;G1&quot; articles with an identifier of a specific Japanese sub-franchise to distinguish them from articles on usually Western/G1 material. We also have about 9 &quot;G1&quot; articles who use a different kind of identifier, on basis that the Japanese continuities are G1.&lt;br&gt; <br /> This already led to a bit of moving around with the Grandus article between (G1) and (ROC) when the Animated guy was introduced. To prevent that happening with the Dai Atlas, Sky Garry and possibly Cancer articles, I'd like to have the community make a decision on how to deal with the (G1) identifier vs the (Headmasters), (Masterforce), (Victory), (Zone), (ROC) and (OC) identifiers vs whatever else can be/is used as identifier.&lt;br&gt; <br /> My preference would be to use the Japanese sub-franchise identifiers. Simple and in line with the whole &quot;from the (Japanese franchise) portion of the G1 continuity&quot; on top of those pages. For convenience, here's a list of the moves it would mean:<br /> *Sandstorm (Autobot) -&gt; Sandstorm (G1) (Note: we have a SG Sandstorm now, so (Autobot) it can't stay anyway.)<br /> *Sandstorm (Decepticon) -&gt; Sandstorm (OC)<br /> *Falcon (Predator) -&gt; Falcon (G1)<br /> *Falcon (Micromaster) -&gt; Falcon (OC)<br /> *Ricochet (G1 Autobot) -&gt; Ricochet (Headmasters)<br /> *Metrotitan (G1) -&gt; Metrotitan (Zone)<br /> *Grandus (G1) -&gt; Grandus (ROC)<br /> *Star Saber (G1) -&gt; Star Saber (Victory)<br /> *Joe (Micromaster) -&gt; Joe (ROC)<br /> *Circuit (Action Master) -&gt; Circuit (G1)<br /> *Circuit (Micromaster) -&gt; Circuit (OC)<br /> *Convertor (Micromaster) -&gt; Convertor (OC)<br /> *Convertor (Recyclon) -&gt; Convertor (G1), but I'm in favour of leaving this one as (Recyclon) because all other Recyclons with an identifier use (Recyclon).<br /> Thoughts? [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 03:48, 19 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Sky Garry etc... all fall under (G1.) Widest possible identifier when there's no conflict.<br /> :This confuses people because we use specific franchises for UT characters... but the UT has SO MUCH name overlap it'd be pointless-- no one would have the (UT) identifier even if it was standard. G1 has little enough name overlap internal to itself we can make (G1) the default.<br /> :So it's inconsistent--but it's at least ''consistently'' inconsistent. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 06:55, 19 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Diver, Planet X, Hydra, maaaaybe Overlord... No, we're not consistently inconsistent either. And now I'm only looking at G1 West vs Japan. With BW, we do seem to be consistent in acknowledging its Japanese sub-franchises in identifiers. [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 07:20, 19 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::What's this &quot;widest possible identifier,&quot; Derik? Didn't we go through that huge &quot;Swarm (G1)&quot; debate (which seems to have been ''completely lost'' in the Bookworm crash, fantastic) to cement the franchise-of-origin rule forever and ever amen? The only question here is: What counts as a separate franchise? To my mind, ''Zone'' bears about the same relationship to G1 as G2 does. And, as the Swarm debate established, G2 is never ever G1 as far as parentheticals are concerned. The UT example has nothing to do with what you said and everything to do with our one simple rule. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 00:21, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::...I don't remember anymore. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:31, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::At least remember to curse the name of Bookworm for three to seven generations. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 00:59, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Side note: Actually, the bit of the discussion that was on my User Page subpage isn't lost. I just didn't upload it anywhere because we never actually determined a good permanent place to move it to, so I didn't know ''where'' to upload it to. After a quickie Google search, it turns out there's still a good cache file for the Insecticon Swarm talk page, too. Anyhoo. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 02:19, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Hey, whatever you can find and restore, please do. The biggest value of preserving a debate like that is never having to go through it again. I'd say you should re-make your Sandbox and its Talk page exactly as they were before. I don't think a more &quot;permanent&quot; place is necessary; it's an aborted experiment, so it can stay on an &quot;experimental&quot; page. - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 03:11, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::::I'm for moving those pages. Except for &quot;OC&quot; since it's based on a bad translation of a Japanese title. 合体大作戦 (''Gattai Daisakusen'') means &quot;Great Combination Operation&quot;. Everybody who knows this, including me, just has been too lazy to correct it. (And Derik, the punctuation for a sentence is out of the parentheses. I'm not sure why you consistently make that mistake.) [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 01:54, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Then maybe this is a good moment to correct it? [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 03:55, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Well, problem is that &quot;Operation Combination&quot;, as incorrect as it is, is what the majority of English people know it as. And then what to have the disambiguation parentheses as? &quot;(GCO)&quot;? I would prefer to have it as &quot;Gattai Daisakusen&quot;, but my opinion of forgoing unofficial translations is decidedly unpopular. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 16:13, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::Then it depends on what this wiki cares more about: helping people find information or providing them with the correct information. By what you're saying, I'd say Operation Combination should become a redirect to the correctly named article. And from there, I don't think (OC) is going to be anymore clear on what continuity it represents than (GCO) or (GD). I don't think many will immediately guess &quot;OC&quot; stands for Operation Combination, and that's also not the point of identifiers. [[User:Geewunling|Geewunling]] 08:21, 21 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::I'm in favor of using the Japanese sub-franchise names. I checked Beast Wars and we are using the sub-franchise names for that, (BWII), (BWN) so this would be consistent. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 08:51, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::Except as someone (Interrobang?) keeps pointing out-- that's problematic in itself. There was no BWII Toyline. There was a BWII cartoon... and a Beast Wars Toyline. Japan considers all 4 BW series paer of 1 toyline franchise, much like Generation 1. (This argument hasn't received a lot of traction, but I'm bringing it up because it seems relevant.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 10:19, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::FortMax brought it up at least twice. One could argue that since we focus on fiction, we should base our disambiguation system on it, but I dunno how to reconcile that with [[Cryotek (RID)]]. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 16:13, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::Or [[Sideways (RID)]]. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 18:34, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::Sideways at least got a RID bio. All Cryotek gets is a quote. (And what if they have RID fiction with Cryotek in it? RID and BM are in two different continuity families which means we have to split the articles and argharghargh) [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 19:19, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::::Disambiguating by fiction has been argued. It doesn't work/help. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:52, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::::::&lt;nowiki&gt;*bump*&lt;/nowiki&gt; So, I like Geewunling's proposal. Objections? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 16:14, 12 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::The Wiki calls Headmasters, Beast Wars II, etc. &quot;franchises.&quot; I didn't know the weren't until just now. It seems useful enough to do so, even if it isn't 100% historically accurate. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 19:07, 20 April 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> == Technical question: Firefox and history pages ==<br /> <br /> Is anyone else running the latest version of Firefox and having trouble with the history pages? I'm running Firefox 3.0.10 and when I look at, say, the [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Optimus_Primal&amp;limit=500&amp;action=history Optimus Primal history page], Firefox locks up for half a minute while it runs the javasript to hide half of the radio buttons. It does it on two different computers running the same version of Firefox, but I don't have the same problem on Wikipedia or Wikia. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 20:56, 1 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Oh wow, that ''was'' a pretty nasty stutter I got when I tried to reproduce your issue. Same version, same results.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 21:00, 1 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Ayep, same here. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:02, 1 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Issue also reproduced on my home PC, which has more get up and go than my workstation, with Firefox 3.5 beta 4.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 22:34, 1 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Ditto on my notebook and tower unit. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 23:06, 1 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::...interesting. Why just firefox? (Clearly the 500+ items are an issue here-- but Safari has no problem with 500 items.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 23:26, 1 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::I'd be curious to know as well. I specifically tried it again with the beta release because it uses a different (and supposedly more efficient) Javascript engine.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 23:30, 1 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::And why only here and not on Wikipedia? Is there that much of a change in the Javascript between MediaWiki 1.12 and 1.14? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 23:32, 1 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Dropped down to Firefox 2...20 there to test, and clicking the radio buttons doesn't take very long, but the page DOES lock up for a while on initial load. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 18:28, 2 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :And FF 1.5.10 behaves as-FF2. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 18:38, 2 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Bad images ==<br /> <br /> My scanner is a piece o' crap. Is it better to upload dark and grainy pictures with a &quot;badimage&quot; tag or just put up a &quot;picsneeded&quot; tag? - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 21:38, 3 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Depends. With recent comic stuff, I think &quot;pics needed&quot; would be better, as there's a good chance that someone else will have the issue (or can find scans, *cough*). I replaced all the Defiance ones, for instance. If you have in mind specific scenes you would have scanned, you can always leave a suggestion in the picsneeded tag or on the talk page.<br /> :On the other hand, for stuff that's old or rare, where it might be a choice between a bad image or never having an image, IMHO a bad image is better than nothing.<br /> :(If you ever replace your scanner, I recommend the Canon MP210. I use it with Irfanview, and god I love the thing. Prints like a charm, too.) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 22:00, 3 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == New User Template ==<br /> <br /> I remember... someone before the crash (FortMax maybe?) suggesting the idea of a template we can stick on the talk pages of new users to welcome them. I rather liked the idea, so I started a mockup idea here: [[User:Jeysie/NewUser]] Any ideas for a pic, info to add/change, etc?<br /> <br /> Also, I noticed we don't have a New Users log enabled the way Wikia does... if we do create this sort of thing, having that sort of log would be helpful. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:21, 4 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :We'd need to either upgrade to MediaWiki 1.14 or install [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Newuserlog the extension] to get the new users log. It would be ''very'' useful, I'm thinking. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:35, 4 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Screencap templates ==<br /> <br /> Er... you know we can ''edit'' the text that appears on the file upload screen. Anyone got a list of screencap templates?<br /> <br /> (I think you might even be able to set them up for one-click adding.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:37, 11 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :They are all listed at [[Transformers Wiki:Images]], to my knowledge. I added all the ones I knew of.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 20:42, 11 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::[[User:Derik/Sandbox7|This]] is what I'm looking at. It's kinda fugy. Anyone else want to take a whack at it? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 21:16, 11 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> I'm also working at templating the comics images:<br /> *{{tl|MarvelUScover}} (Marvel US G1), {{tl|HMcover}} (Marvel Headmasters mini) and {{tl|MarvelG2cover}} are maxed out.<br /> *I ''think'' I've got all the extant &amp; relevant images for {{tl|MarvelG2interior}} - although I can't absolutely swear to it<br /> *I'm currently working as and when I have the chance on moving the Marvel US G1 interiors and HM interiors to {{tl|MarvelUSinterior}} and {{tl|HMinterior}} from a variety of copyright tags and the absence thereof (including the ones that lost their descriptions in the Bookworm Incident)<br /> Like I say, the covers are maxed out, but there's always the chance that other interiors will be uploaded (Walky's done a few recently), and it would help if they were added too. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:58, 11 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Propose a visually compact way of doing so. ;) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:10, 11 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> {|border cellspacing=&quot;1&quot; cellpadding=&quot;5&quot; width=&quot;100%&quot;<br /> |-<br /> !width=50%|General<br /> !width=50%|Comic Cover<br /> |-valign=&quot;top&quot;<br /> |width=50%|<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Hasbro/Takara Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{hastak}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Interior Panel Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{comicinterior}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Cover Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{comiccover}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Screencap Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{screencap}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> |width=50%|<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Marvel US G1 Cover copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{MarvelUScover|(description)|(issue number)|(issue title)|(artist list)|(last two digits of publication year)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Marvel Headmasters Cover copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{HMcover|(description)|(issue number)|(issue title)|(artist list)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Marvel US G2 Cover copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{MarvelG2cover|(description)|(issue number)|(issue title)|(artist list)|(last digit of publication year)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> |-<br /> !width=50%|Screencap<br /> !width=50%|Comic Interior<br /> |-valign=&quot;top&quot;<br /> |width=50%|<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Title Card Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{titlecard}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;G1/Sunbow Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{G1cap|(imagedescription)|(episode name)|(last digit of premiere year originally aired)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Robots In Disguise Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{RIDcap|(imagedescription)|(episode name)|(last digit of year originally aired)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Beast Wars Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{BWcap|(imagedescription)|(episode name)|(last digit of year originally aired)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Beast Machines Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{BMcap|(imagedescription)|(episode name)|(year originally aired)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Transformers: Animated Copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{TFAcap|(imagedescription)|(episode name)|(year originally aired)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> |width=50%|<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Marvel US G1 Interior copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{MarvelUSinterior|description=|issueno=|storytitle=|pageno=|panelno=|panelnos=|script=|line-art=|pencils=|inks=|colours=[[Nelson Yomtov]]|letters=|help=|year=(last two digits of publication year)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Marvel Headmasters Interior copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{HMinterior|description=|issueno=|storytitle=|pageno=|panelno=|panelnos=|letters=|help=}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> *&lt;span title=&quot;Marvel US G2 Interior copyright&quot; style=&quot;padding:0 .5em;&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{MarvelG2interior|description=|issueno=|storytitle=|pageno=|panelno=|panelnos=|script=|pencils=|inks=|colours=|letters=|help=|year=(last digit of publication year)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;<br /> |}<br /> ...I don't know about visually compact, exactly, but considering how many image templates we have, I'm not sure &quot;visually compact&quot; is possible... --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 23:06, 11 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Well, it's something to work on. Unfortunately the '''charinsert''' plugin doesn't have any way to display s short piece of text while inserting a long one.<br /> :There's a rabid wolverine scrabbling around the back of my brain licking carnival pennies... I feel like when he comes down off his ''filth high'' he might have some ideas about Stupid CSS Tricks to make that less loathesome. (Failing that we could do something with Javascript, but it'd be a bitch to update so that's a last choice.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:35, 12 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Yeah, it's pretty much the opposite... you can stick a description in the tooltip, but the actual text has to be visible. I honestly can't think of any way to do it in pure CSS without messing up the clickability of it.<br /> ::I guess we ''could'' just link to the plain vanilla templates with no parameters, but I kind of want to encourage people to be as thorough as possible with their info.<br /> ::I think we could also use a way to include a link to each template's page in case one needs to read the instructions. But I had trouble coming up with a way that's brief, clear, and won't get mistaken for the inserto-text link. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 01:53, 12 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Addendum: We could go for a fake form with OPTION or a CSS-based drop-down list, but I think those would both need JS. (Admittedly the CSS based drop-down would need less JS, and only for the style, not the functionality.) &lt;small&gt;(Why do I always have extra thoughts right ''after'' hitting the &quot;submit&quot; button?)&lt;/small&gt; --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 01:59, 12 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::What about the Boilerplate plugin that was suggested a while back? Would that be more suitable for this sort of thing? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 02:04, 12 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::No, unfortunately... it only works for articles, not on file pages. (At least, if there is a way to get it to work on file pages, I couldn't figure it out.) Although I still think we should give that extension a whirl at some point, it won't help out with this specific thing. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 02:07, 12 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::My Wolverine stopped tripping long enough to say &quot;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{MarvelG2}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;:&lt;span class=&quot;tt1_fuxChar&quot;&gt;&lt;charinsert&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{MarvelG2interior|description=|issueno=|storytitle=|pageno=|panelno=|panelnos=|script=|pencils=|inks=|colours=|letters=|help=|year=(last digit of publication year)}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/charinsert&gt;&lt;/span&gt;.&quot;<br /> ::::He is a filthy, FILTHY beast, and the hackiness of that CSS shames me. (And it's still not ideal code anyway.)<br /> ::::I think Javascript is a likely fate here. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:03, 12 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Upload Preview ==<br /> <br /> Over at [[Template_talk:Screencap#Since_we_got_derailed.|Template talk:Screencap]], Mr. Bates (or possibly Doug-- I can't keep them straight) suggested we look at the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_User_scripts/Scripts/Upload_Preview Upload Preview script]-- a pure javascript solution to the lack of previews during image upload (which the MW software doesn't naively support.)<br /> <br /> The script is currently available for anyone who has the [[User:Derik/kired tools|kired tools]] plugins installed. Please report your thoughts, and if there are any problems or conflicts. If user response is positive, I'm going to recommend the relevant code be added to the Wiki's common.js file. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:59, 12 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :It works great - very handy (I was the one who suggested it, BTW) --[[User:Abates|abates]] 05:59, 13 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I finally figured out why I have such trouble telling you and Doug apart.<br /> ::I'm actually trying to tell &quot;apog,&quot; &quot;apog&quot; and &quot;abates&quot; apart under the impression they are ''two'' people. '''No wonder''' I'm confused. -[[User:Deceptitran|Deceptitran]] 12:37, 18 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == (comic issue) vs. (issue) ==<br /> <br /> Is there any protest against eliminating (comic issue) as a disambiguation parenthetical? Near as I can tell, it's totally redundant with the shorter, simpler (issue) parenthetical. (again, unless there's a &quot;Child's Play (socioeconomic issue)&quot; article that I'm unaware of...) -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 10:52, 18 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :No protest here. I was planning on doing it someday. [[User:Interrobang|—Interrobang]] 14:58, 18 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == ROTF spoilers from novelizations and other adaptations ==<br /> <br /> So, is information from the novelizations off-limits until the movie is in theaters, or what? (If so, we need to protect the hell out of a bunch of pages) --[[User:FortMax|FortMax]] 22:58, 20 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :It was discussed [[Talk:Revenge of the Fallen (franchise)|here]] and decided that no, they are not off limits, but please date the spoiler tags on character pages to a week after the film comes out. - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 23:04, 20 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I've been stubbing in articles where I feel it's appropriate... but I've also been tailoring my content to avoid major spoilers-- more to have the infrastructure in place and ready to fill in then the movie drops.<br /> ::(And realistically speaking, there's going to be a flood of detailed spoilers, including lists of every fatality and major surprise on the 10th-- the film premieres in Japan 18 days before it does here.)<br /> ::Incidentally, I don't ''trust'' the tie-in novels. Characters vanish suddenly, details are glossed over or changed... I harbor a suspicion that certain plot details are being kept out of the books-- or at least obscured-- to prevent fans from being 100% certain about anything. The climax of the two movie adaptions I've read so far are ''different'', they have '''noticeably''' divergent outcomes. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 00:12, 21 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I do not want '''''any''''' novelization and adaptation spoilers on character pages or other related articles. Stuff from adaptations should stay on their respective articles. Most of my work on the wiki at the moment is updating and maintaining movie articles, so it would be a personal inconvenience to me if I had to avert my eyes every time I come across the ''Revenge of the Fallen'' movie sections of character articles. Not only that, but there will be people who will wander onto this wiki with the intention of refreshing themselves on the movie or to read prequel stuff leading up to ROTF, but have no intention of reading up on plot points of the movie itself. And, as Derik says, novelizations and adaptations often differ wildly from the final movie script.<br /> :::I think it's more than bloody fair to expect that we only post ROTF-related stuff on the day of the movie's release around the world, not before. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 00:59, 21 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::That'd apply to the British Isles contingent? UK and Ireland are getting general release June 19. --[[User:Lonegamer78|Lonegamer78]] 02:48, 21 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::That's a good question. (I have no opinion, I'm spoiling myself by reading the novel.)<br /> :::::IIRC, back during Animated season 2 we were observing a 1-week moratorium on character-page updates, which more-or-less covered the biggest broadcast markets.<br /> * 10th - Japan premiere<br /> * 24th - US Premiere<br /> * 26th - UK Premiere<br /> :::::Since the period we're talking about is just a 16 day span, I assume the same idea applies-- hold off until the 26th (possibly plus a few days) out of respect for other TF-fans. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 03:23, 21 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::As Lonegamer ''just said'', it's out here in the UK on the 19th. And the rule for TFA S2 seemed to be that &quot;as soon as it was first aired in English, be it in the UK, US or Canada (all three had 'world premieres in English' at different points), go for it&quot;. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 10:02, 21 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::I think that the modifier in that situation, though, was the fact that as soon as said Animated episodes had aired in English ''anywhere'', high-quality encodes of them were promptly available to download for anybody anywhere who wanted them, making it all pretty much fair game. Information could be added, and editors would not be left unable to verify that information, as they could download and see the episode themselves. The movie won't have that - US editors simply wont know if what anon IPs add is true or not, because they won't be able to see the movie to verify it and will have to operate on good faith, which is laudible, but we saw how well that worked with the Dubai Animated debalce and &quot;Animated Waspinator&quot;. While I'll be seeing it opening day here in the UK, I know that I, personally, wasn't planning to add anything about it to the wiki until it screened in the US. - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 11:03, 21 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::What Chris said. &quot;Airing in English&quot; was a polite euphemism for &quot;we can see it too.&quot; It doesn't apply for a 2-and-a-half hour theatrical movie. American fans will still be in the dark until the 26th, and as far as I'm concerned the wiki should honor that. --[[User:Thylacine 2000|Thylacine 2000]] 11:04, 21 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::::''While I'll be seeing it opening day here in the UK, I know that I, personally, wasn't planning to add anything about it to the wiki until it screened in the US.''<br /> :::::::::''American fans will still be in the dark until the 26th''<br /> :::::::::Can I take it that the UK and US premiere dates above are switched?--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 14:02, 21 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::::::It's now been said '''thrice''' in this thread that the UK/Eire date is the 19th. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]]<br /> :::::::::::Beg your pardon, then. It was late, and I wasn't paying close enough attention.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 13:08, 22 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::::::::::Damn Americans think they're the centre of the Universe. If I was President of the US, I'd invade the UK and Ireland to protect American Transfan interests. 14:56, 1 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> I read the novel and have this to say: As much detail as is in it, there's no doubt its different. First of all: there's alot more detail so that means some of the slower parts are probably shorter in the movie (novels often do that anyways so no problems there) and also: in one chapter it leads up to fight and then on the very next chapter all of a sudden Devestator appears and is fighting already as if he's been there the whole time (meaning they skipped a chunk of that fight)So as is obvious, there will be differences.--[[User:Chipmonk328|Chipmonk328]] (or was it 9?)&lt;&lt;not that it matters<br /> <br /> ==Forgive my attitude but==<br /> what the flying f***! What happened to my account. I made one, I even remember what it looked like. Where is it and why can't I login and my username no longer exsists! What..the..hell. I've not signed in for a long time but I still go here regularly and everything, don't tell me you autodeleted my account! I mean, I’ve been here when it was at Wikia, I moved with you guys here and even made a new account here! Hell, my old accounts on Wikia all got deleted, so please don’t tell me you guys stooped to their level and deleted my account as well! I’ve done nothing wrong, aside from giving the appearance of being inactive because I’ve not logged in within awhile, but so what? What right does that give you to delete my account? (and if by some means it does give you the right to do so, please provide a link proving that)--[[User:Chipmonk328|Chipmonk328]] (or was it 9?)&lt;&lt; not that it matters<br /> :[[Transformers Wiki:Bookworm Crash]]. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 15:59, 1 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> Thank you. I'll just make a new account then.-sighs- Forgive if I bothered any of you with what I just said.--[[User:Chipmonk328|Chipmonk328]]<br /> ::Don't worry, incoherent rage is the '''proper''' response to the Bookworm crash... you're just slowpoking. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:17, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Main page ==<br /> <br /> [[Image:Mainpage_analytics-06-05-09.png|thumb]]<br /> I'll just leave this here...<br /> <br /> (I'll check in after work and see if anyone has thoughts, I sure do.)<br /> <br /> Number are per-individual-link BTW-- so two separate links to the same location have their clickthroughs tallied separately. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:16, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> : In which we learn nobody clicks anything! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 13:21, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::The numbers on the page ''should'' add up to 100%. It's just that a few links get vastly more traffic than the others so they show up as 0%. That might represent a few hundred clicks-- the Main Page ''is'' our most frequented page. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:12, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::And people are obviously clicking on [[Kup (G1)]] as the page has gained a thousand hits and jumped 30 places in the Popular Pages list in the last week or so. Any idea what time frame the data covers? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:20, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::That was pretty much my thought, too. XD Although it is kind of interesting that some of the categories/continuities/series sections seem more popular than others... it's just hard to tell which ones, since the number pop-ups are in weird spots.<br /> ::I also notice that the &quot;images&quot; link in the Editing Tips is popular... and that apparently the fake disambiguation links get some clicks. XD Speaking of which, we really should write up some more of those to replace the rotating ones that got lost in the crash... --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 13:26, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I may have sternly directed people to our Images policy page. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 13:49, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::It's the most common thing people get wrong, so it's also our most thorough policy document.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 14:05, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::About 8% of clicks on the main page are to our &quot;anyone can edit&quot; but up top-- which just takes people to anchors within the page. (The Editing tips section and the Holy Grails section, which do not themselves then collect a lot of clicks.)<br /> :::::This leads me to think that people who click on these things do ''not'' get what they want/are expecting. We should look at changing those links somehow.<br /> :::::Another 8 % of clicks on the main page are on the &quot;home&quot; logo in the upper left (which takes you... back to the main page) and the &quot;main page&quot; link in the nav toolbar.<br /> :::::If there's agreement, I'd like to set it so that the &quot;Main Page&quot; link in the navigation on the left is grayed out when you're on the main page, so it's clearer that &quot;you're here.&quot; (The link would still be usable, it'd just have this visual indicator.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 16:10, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::We could simply de-link the &quot;anyone can edit&quot; links... they just seemed like a good way to get people to actually read our policies and what we need. Or maybe we could link that text directly to [[Help:Contents]] and get rid of the &quot;Editing Tips&quot; box altogether?<br /> ::::::I agree with the &quot;Main Page&quot; link being disabled when you're actually on the Main Page. It's pretty easy to do via CSS, and you can also change the cursor to be a regular arrow in CSS to further de-emphasize the links and say, &quot;Hey, dude, you're already ''at'' the Main Page.&quot;<br /> ::::::Although I had actually thought that 8% of clicks was to the Recent Changes page, which would have made more sense to me. The oddness of where the stat boxes are in relation to the actual page links does make it hard to analyze. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 16:45, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::AS FAR AS I CAN TELL (which in a few cases - the continuities box especially - is less than 100%), these are all the numbers &gt;1.0%:<br /> :::::::*Logo (goes to Main Page): 4.0%<br /> :::::::*&quot;Navigation&quot; sidebar:<br /> :::::::**Main Page link in sidebar: 4.0%<br /> :::::::**Recent changes: 5.3%<br /> :::::::*Fake disambig:<br /> :::::::**&quot;anyone can edit&quot; (goes to &quot;editing-tips&quot; subpage): 4.0%<br /> :::::::**&quot;add to&quot; (goes to &quot;holy-grails&quot; subpage): 4.0%<br /> :::::::*Categories:<br /> :::::::**Characters: 1.8%<br /> :::::::*Continuities:<br /> :::::::**Live-action film: 1.4%<br /> :::::::**Full Series Info: 4.0%<br /> :::::::*Also, the cumulative links to the ROTF page appear to be &gt;1%, even if no individual link is.<br /> :::::::Thoughts on that... firstly, the links TO the main page ON the main page need to be nerfed. Not greyed out, killed. The logo can be just a logo, and the main page link can be replaced or removed. Secondly, there is no way in hell we should delink the stuff in the fake disambig, but redirecting to other places may be a better idea - take the &quot;editing tips&quot; box and turn it into a full page, linked from there (And from the ET box). Not quite so sure on &quot;add to&quot; - a list of stubs that we want filled out, perhaps? The &quot;Holy Grails&quot; box is too specific for 99.9% of potential editors, I expect. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 19:32, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Useful Extensions ==<br /> <br /> Now that we have a working server again and more control over the techie side of things, I wonder if we should start up a list of extensions to install that might be useful.<br /> <br /> My own picks:<br /> <br /> *[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Newuserlog Extension:Newuserlog] to keep track of new users so we can give them a [[User:Jeysie/NewUser|friendly greeting]]. As opposed to our current status of new people not usually getting much of a &quot;greeting&quot; unless they screw up. :&gt;<br /> *[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:MultiBoilerplate Extension:MultiBoilerplate] to provide a drop-down menu of skeleton codes for new pages. I find this ''incredibly'' useful on my own wiki for being able to easily keep different types of pages all laid out the same, by inserting full page structures into new pages so you can then just fill in the information. For example, [http://trinsic.alienharmony.com/Template:D20RulesPlayercharacterpage here's one structure page] I use to give an idea of the sort of code you can inset.<br /> <br /> :Mine:<br /> :*[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Title_Blacklist Extension:Title Blacklist] blocks creation of pages depending on a regular expression.<br /> <br /> :I will note that Newuserlog is built into MediaWiki 1.14.0, but we haven't discussed upgrading the software yet... --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:25, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::Honestly, those &quot;friendly greetings&quot; drive me spare. I'd really rather not have them.<br /> ::Suggestions:<br /> ::*[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:KeepYourHandsToYourself Extension:KeepYourHandsToYourself] (prevents users or anons editing User:* pages other than their own.) [Beta] - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 19:47, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I'd be fine with blocking anons-- but I ''have'' been known to reach out and tweak someone's user page from time to time.<br /> :::(Not that we've really had a problem with either.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:02, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Why do they drive you spare? Giving new users a heads-up regards our policies ''before'' we have to slap a nastygram user notice on their page seems like a good idea to me. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 19:54, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::They drive me spare getting them while doing IP-edits. And chances are you'll get them again, and again, and again... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 20:02, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Oh! No, no, no. I didn't mean doing them automatically on all new users, I was thinking, like, putting the greeting ''manually'' only for new ''registered'' users. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 20:09, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ==Rise of the Chevy Autobots==<br /> Allright, I finally got around to putting this up. This is everything I have saved from the &quot;Rise of the Chevy Autobots&quot; online game - flash files, HTML, etc. It comes to nearly 60mb.<br /> <br /> [http://www.obscuretf.com/ChevyAutobotGame.zip Chevy Autobots]<br /> <br /> Unfortunately, I am most likely missing the last week or two of the story, but I figure it's better than nothing. --[[User:Monzo|Monzo]] 14:18, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Monzo- I luvers you...<br /> :And AFIK the defeat of Mainframe himself never got a news update-- the epilogue was provided by the game itself. So you ''should'' have the most up to date version.<br /> :Uh, I suppose there might have been a &quot;he's weakening, keep at it&quot; update, but that's pretty content-null. It'd be nice to know the date Mainframe went down... but again, it looks like you've got 99% of everything preserved here. :)~<br /> :And now we can properly cite the Chevy Autobots being allspark mutations! (Or at least a result of Chevy's experimentation with Energon as an alternative fuel source.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 14:27, 5 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Possible Relicensing? ==<br /> <br /> So, Wikipedia is moving from the GFDL to a Creative Commons license, which will make it incompatible with most Wikia sites from then on. (Presumably; I haven't heard if Wikia at large or any of its individual wikis--like the old Transformers one-- are making the same transition.) Should TFWiki consider switching, too? Pretty much everyone outside the Wikipedia/Wikia family goes with CC, which is a lot simpler in a lot of ways than the GFDL.<br /> <br /> [[wikipedia:GFDL#Compatibility with CC-BY-SA|Apparently, GFDL-licensed wikis can only make the change before August 1, 2009]]. And unlike them, we probably wouldn't have to worry about having added any content from non-wiki GFDL-licensed things, at least. And it would completely eliminate legal copying/pasting between this wiki and its rival. --[[User:Fleb|Fleb]] 17:47, 6 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I would support this, at least tentatively. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 19:16, 6 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::On the surface, at least, it looks like a good move. It keeps the same free-info spirit, but is incompatible with Wikia's license ''and'' any info-quoting or copying from us further requires attributing the wiki, if I'm reading it right. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 21:18, 6 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Hmm. I thought about bringing this Creative Commons thing up awhile back, but I'm not Legal Smarts (S-M-R-T) enough to fully understand it. Perhaps our staff should comment on this? The final decision is probably theirs. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:06, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::I don't really have much to say, other than it sounds like a good idea. If nothing else, the legal terms of the GFDL are nightmarish at best and I'd be happy to never think of them again. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 14:02, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Asking for permission to post links==<br /> <br /> I'm the current Bureaucrat at [http://ghostbusters.wikia.com Ghostbusters Wiki], and there was interest in placing links to articles on this wiki to Ghostbusters wiki articles, and likewise placing links on Ghostbusters wiki to articles relating to content which has been brought up. I don't know a great deal of your wikis past dealings, other than wikia apparently kept your old wiki's content when you moved. Anyways, the wiki would rather reference to your present wiki than the one currently at wikia. We are hoping you wouldn't mind the links to our characters on pages related to the [http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Race_with_the_Devil Race with the Devil] article. [http://ghostbusters.wikia.com/wiki/User:Devilmanozzy Devilmanozzy] 02:10, June 8, 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Can you give a few examples of articles on your wiki which would benefit from having links to this site? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 03:37, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::IIRC it's whatshername's assistants-- the ones from the Earthforce story (Running with the Devil?) that Wildman based on the RGB models.<br /> ::(I personally have no problem with the links. Though I think this guy added 'em once, misformatted, and they got reverted.) -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 13:06, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::That wasn't Nozzy but Liberal Noob, while not logged in. I told the original guy to take a step back and mind their P's and Q's before we start crosslinking, especially since it was an anonymous IP at the time. But yeah, he wants to crosslink with Race the Devil and Susan Hoffman.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 13:43, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Quick Links? ==<br /> <br /> You know, now that I think about it, one thing Wikia actually did do right was having some &quot;Quick Links&quot; on the sidebar. I find myself missing being able to quickly get to the main continuities/series without having to search or click to the Main Page first. (Especially now that there's lots o' ROTF toys to keep tabs on...)<br /> <br /> Nothing extensive necessary; just one linkie thingy with a fly-out menu for our six main continuities and the full series list would probably work nicely. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 03:03, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I think notably M.Sipher *really* hated that because any time a cursor went within a parsec of the menu, it would pop out in an annoying manner. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 04:09, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Wasn't just Sipher - it drove me nuts too. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 09:09, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Well, in that case, maybe just an extra sidemenu then, kind of like the &quot;Campaign Navigation&quot; box on [http://trinsic.alienharmony.com/Main_Page this sidebar]? I just figured that a fly-out menu would save space, but an extra link sidebar would work for me too.<br /> :::But I'd definitely like something. As Abates points out below, we don't currently have any sidebar links for actually ''browsing''. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 12:47, 8 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I think having a link on the sidebar for Revenge of the Fallen would be good too. While the Community portal and Recent Changes links are great for us Editors, they're not likely to be used much by casual visitors. We should be using the menu to draw attention to major articles. While I'm thinking about it, we could probably change the Main Page link to read &quot;Transformers Wiki&quot;... --[[User:Abates|abates]] 04:11, 8 June 2009 (EDT)</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=Fireblast&diff=307389 2009-06-06T18:59:30Z

<p>Suki Brits: Now we know what the deal REALLY is.</p> <hr /> <div>[[Image:Hotshot fireblaster.jpg|right|250px|thumb|You may sacrifice two Mountains rather than pay Fireblast&amp;#39;s mana cost]]<br /> '''Fireblast''' is a term which recently (~2001) came to replace the term &quot;firepower&quot; as a [[Tech Spec]] rating. Many fans speculated that the reasoning for the change was to avoid the potentially-inappropriate-for-children connotation the word 'firepower' has with guns; as it turns out, what really happened was that someone trademarked &quot;firepower,&quot; forcing Hasbro to replace the term. &quot;Fireblast&quot; is a neologism and an example of [[blastification]] within Transformers.<br /> <br /> The [[Autobot]] [[Hot Shot (RID)|Hot Shot]] carries a &quot;fireblaster&quot; weapon in [[Robots in Disguise (cartoon)|Robots in Disguise]]. This refers to a specific type of weapon and is not compatible with the &quot;catchall&quot; use of the word Fireblast as described above.<br /> <br /> His fireblaster shoots pink bursts of energy.<br /> <br /> <br /> [[Category:Weapons]]</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=File_talk:GB-AngryArcher.jpg&diff=307386 2009-06-06T18:50:11Z

<p>Suki Brits: </p> <hr /> <div>Am I the only one who thinks the &quot;GO&quot; needs to be replaced by something a bit more ye olde english-esque? Like &quot;FORSOOTH&quot; or &quot;TALLY-HO&quot;? --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 14:38, 6 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :I would most definitely say you are not the only one.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 14:43, 6 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::You're awesome. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 14:47, 6 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::We should have a regular Aaron Archer one. &lt;- NO --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 14:50, 6 June 2009 (EDT)</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki_talk:Community_Portal/Arriving2&diff=304123 2009-06-01T20:59:12Z

<p>Suki Brits: </p> <hr /> <div>== Many Happy Returns ==<br /> <br /> Heeeeey, this is pretty good. --[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 17:15, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :It's speedier than the old server, but there's still some wonkiness. For instance, every time I tried editing just this section I got a blank page, but editing the whole page seems to have worked. Also, I keep getting logged out. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:00, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I can't even log in. What's going on? -- SFH (cannot log in) 18:01, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I'm thinking there may be some wonkiness related to cookies made before, or even ''during'' the transition. I did get some &quot;session data lost&quot; messages, but after a log out and a log back in, that seems to be resolved.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 18:06, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::So what exactly do I have to do to be able to log in? -- SFH (desperately trying to log in) 18:19, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::You could try clearing your cache and deleting your cookies and see if that helps. Other than that, I'm not sure what to suggest. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:23, 26 May 2009 (EDT)--[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:23, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::What are you getting when you try to log in? A blank page? An error message? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:32, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::&quot;Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage&quot;. Does that help? -- SFH (unable to log in) 19:00, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Welp, I'm on firefox, and I'm logged in, and I'm only editing this section and it's displaying right, so... I'm happy! /:) - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 19:08, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Well, I tried Firefox, and it's working, but still not on Internet explorer. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 19:19, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Tried here with IE6. No problems logging in, but when I attempted to log out, I got a &quot;Cannot find server or DNS Error&quot; error. The second logout attempt worked, but then when I went to log in again, I got the same error.<br /> :::::Deleting the tfwiki cookie fixed the problem and I was able to log in. In fact now I'm not having any problem at all logging in and out on IE6. The sidebar on the login pages appears messed up in IE though (tis cutting off in the middle of the navigation menu). --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:39, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::What is this &quot;Internet Explorer&quot; you speak of? Is it a 3rd party browser? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:37, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I'm getting a lot of [http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/1395/tfwikierror.png &quot;The requested URL could not be retrieved&quot;] messages, and the occasional blank page or &quot;loss of session data&quot;, myself. - [[User:Magnus Maximus|Magnus Maximus]] 19:47, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I occasionally get the message: ''Sorry! We could not process your edit due to a loss of session data. Please try again. If it still doesn't work, try logging out and logging back in.'' - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 20:13, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::So do I. And I did delete my tfwiki cookie, but I still get internet explorer cannot display the webpage. This is getting rediculous. -- SFH 20:18, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I have problems logging in, logging out and displaying the lefthand navigation and the user controls on top for the Recent Changes page: [http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/Detour84/NoBars.png] --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:36, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::That happens on other pages too, as it turns out. Like the new Nexus Maximus image, or [[Cryotek (TransTech)]]. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:41, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Trying to search for (not &quot;Go&quot; to) &lt;tt&gt;splinter&lt;/tt&gt; or terms containing it such as &lt;tt&gt;splinter timeline&lt;/tt&gt; gives a white screen of death. Also had trouble saving this post due to &quot;a loss of session data&quot;. Trying hitting &quot;Show preview&quot; before &quot;Save page&quot; to see if that works...<br /> [And shouldn't this be @ [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving2]]? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]]<br /> :Ask and ye shall etc. etc.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 21:36, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Searching for &quot;splinter&quot; works for me! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:42, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Still not working for me, and no number of Shift-F5 or Ctrl-F5 forced refreshes is making it so. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:47, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> So, I'm getting no top or side bars (including the discussion/edit/history part up top), and there's incomplete wikicode showing up at the bottom of this specific page. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:50, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Yeah, I'm getting that too - that means the page isn't fully loading, since they're at the bottom of the HTML. I can't get [[Unicron]] to fully load even the text for love nor money, and [[Optimus Prime (G1)]] is even worse. And I'm getting those &quot;loss of session data&quot; messages about a fifth of the time, meaning I have to (re-)preview or show changes, then save. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 22:34, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Unicron works for me, but not Optimus. I'm wondering if these problems are caused not by MediaWiki, but by Squid, which we're using for caching. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 00:05, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::It definitely IS problems with Squid, not MediaWiki itself; right now I'm really uncertain as to what's causing them. Unfortunately I can't just disable Squid, since the wiki buckles massively under the pressure without it. I'm trying to look into it, it's baffling, because the issues are seemingly at random. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 00:34, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::[http://article.gmane.org/gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.technical/36221 This], while old, may be relevant as it seems to be about blank pages getting stuck in the Squid cache and a workaround. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 03:41, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::&lt;s&gt;Oh my god, I love you, that ''does'' seem to fix the problem. Thank you so much!&lt;/s&gt; Apparently I spoke too soon. I guess this will need more work. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 04:17, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::I was just able to log in on Internet Explorer just now. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 21:41, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Which version of IE are you using? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:58, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::IE7. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 22:06, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ==Bugs still remaining==<br /> I've been doing a lot of behind the scenes work for the past few days. For all the currently remaining bugs logged here, could I have confirmation for every one that's still outstanding, that it hasn't been fixed? Obviously the long pages are still causing issues, but for the others, I need to know if there really is still a major problem, and if so, how I can replicate it. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 16:59, 1 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Bug reports ==<br /> ===Can't edit some pages when logged in===<br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Can't edit some pages when logged in<br /> |color=#fdc689<br /> |name=[[User:Derik|Derik]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=Some pages (or even [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Colonel_Franklin&amp;action=edit&amp;section=0 ''sections'' of pages]) will always come up as '''white screens''' when I attempt to edit them-- but if I log out, they are editable.<br /> *This does not appear browser of cookie-cache thing... the behavior repeats in Firefox, Safari, Opera and Chrome. (Did not bother testing IE.)<br /> *Are ''other'' users able to edit these pages when logged in/out (use the Franklin-section link above to check.) Are the ''same'' pages whitescreening for all users experiencing this problem?<br /> '''Current Workaround:''' Log out as needed. (Not ideal, may create problems for semi-protected pages.)&lt;br/&gt;<br /> '''More elaborate workaround:''' use the &quot;revert&quot; feature on the history page, this gets you into edit mode while bypassing the white-page. &lt;small&gt;(Credit to Rosicrucian.)&lt;/small&gt;<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :I haven't explored any of these extensively, but I can give my experience of the past few hours, at least. All examples are from when I've been logged in on Firefox. Apologies in advance if this isn't the proper format for responding. Please feel free to rework as necessary.<br /> <br /> :My attempt to review just the difference made by Derik's last edit to the [[Transformers Wiki:Community record|Community record]] page generated a white screen. To see the actual change he made, I had to link directly to the article, then its history page, then the &quot;last&quot; link for his edit.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 06:25, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I can no longer duplicate this. Has it been fixed? Also [[Optimus Prime (G1)]] is now loading fully every time... --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:24, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::I ''believe'' I've fixed it. I need to know if anyone can replicate the issue or not. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 22:37, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::This just cropped up again when I tried to edit some images. :( --[[User:Abates|abates]] 03:10, 28 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Which images? I need to know what I'm testing with. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 03:13, 28 May 2009 (EDT) <br /> :::::[[:Image:Moonracer vehicle.jpg]] and [[:Image:Moonracerg1.jpg]] are both currently giving me a blank page when I hit edit. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 04:29, 28 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::I'm currently having this problem editing talk pages -- [[User:Tupka86]][[Special:Contributions/82.72.66.241|82.72.66.241]] 06:04, 28 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::I ran into this again today, after not seeing it for a few days over Botcon. Has anyone else been running into it? (Has it always been here, or is it just appearing again?) <br /> :::::::Obnoxiously, the page in question is now editable for me, but it wasn't 30 minutes ago. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 12:08, 1 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> The sneakiest way I've found around this one is to do a revert, and while doing so paste all the text you're &quot;reverting&quot; back in so that you're not really reverting, then make your edits. It seems to work.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 12:10, 1 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> :That's even weirder... so there's nothing fundamentally wrong with the edit ''function'', even for that user of that page... just the edit ''mode'' for this user, for this page? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 12:19, 1 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Like nearly everything we've had lately, it's caching. Squid treats the two of them as requests for different pages, because they're generated by (marginally) different URLs.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 13:59, 1 June 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ===Persistent &quot;loss of session data&quot; error when saving edits.===<br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Persistent &quot;loss of session data&quot; error when saving edits.<br /> |color=#fff799<br /> |name=[[User:Derik|Derik]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description='''Normally''' if you try to save a page and your session has &quot;Done Something Funky&quot; since you began editing it, Mediawiki gives you a preview instead an an edit, and prompts you to re-save again, whereupon the problem has repaired itself.&lt;br/&gt;<br /> '''Now''' it simply gives you Session Error after Session Error-- the page remains impossible to save.<br /> '''Workaround:''' Copy the text of your edit, go back to the page and click 'edit' again. You will now be able to save. (This error seems to hinge on the 'time you began editing' timestamp not re-setting itself if there was a problem.)<br /> |resolution= (Low priority)<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :I had a problem like that a few hours ago with editing the [[Ruckus (Shattered Glass)]] page. I was able to open and edit the page, but once I was done and clicked &quot;save&quot;, it returned a blank white page, ignoring several attempts to refresh. When I checked the Recent Changes list, though, I saw my edit listed, so I didn't bother to mess with it further.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 06:25, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Whitepage with the edit going through would be a slightly different sort of error. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 10:08, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Actually, the easiest workaround for this is to hit &quot;Show preview&quot; or &quot;Show changes&quot;, THEN save. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 10:02, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> This is getting worse. When I was reverting Derik's dicking around there, it was taking five or six attempts to get the page to actually save. (May take the same here. 2...) - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 22:29, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Same here. I keep getting loss of session data errors even when I click &quot;show preview&quot; and then &quot;save page&quot;. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:00, 28 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::It happens to me now when using FireFox. --'''[[User:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#00FA9A&quot;&gt;TX55&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;small&gt;&lt;SUP&gt;''[[User talk:TX55|&lt;span style= &quot;color:#0000CD&quot;&gt;TALK&lt;/span&gt;]]''&lt;/SUP&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 11:34, 28 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ===Some pages not loading fully===<br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Some pages not loading fully<br /> |color=#f26c4f<br /> |name=[[User:abates|abates]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=Large pages ([[Optimus Prime (G1)]], [[Unicron]]) may not load fully, losing the bottom part of the page and the website kibble. The location of the cut-out point varies if the page is reloading, suggesting that Squid isn't caching the partial page and is possibly timing out when trying to retrieve the article.<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :Definitely getting this problem. Repeated refreshes of [[Optimus Prime (G1)]]'s page got the browser to cycle through several different cut-off versions of the page, some more complete than others, but none past about halfway through the IDW Comics Continuity section.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 06:25, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::This does not seem to represent a hard limit-- running action=purge on the OP page kept giving me slightly different 'lengths.'<br /> ::Is this caused by the condom on our clownfish? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 10:08, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I have trouble loading the full 500 changes on the Recent Changes page. Takes several reloads for the entire page to load. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 05:51, 28 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::This is getting intolerable. Now when I click &quot;edit&quot; at the top pages, half of the time I get a blank white screen. This is especially annoying when I want to edit several sections in an article at once, or I want to edit the top section of an article. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 10:35, 31 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::I'm with you. I far too often either get blank screens or incomplete page loads. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 11:17, 31 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ===Problems logging in/browsing while logged in with IE7===<br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Problems logging in/browsing while logged in with IE7<br /> |color=#fff799<br /> |name=[[User:abates|abates]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=In Internet Explorer 7, when loading the login page/after logging in/browsing while logged in, pages would load and display then abruptly switch to a screen saying &quot;Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage&quot;. Problem appears to be related to Google analytics, as the one time this didn't happen was when a page didn't load fully and was broken off partway through the Google Analytics code. Problem does not seem to occur while logged out however. Purged cache and cookie files, but problem recurred after logging in.<br /> '''Current workaround:''' Use an alternate browser,<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :Looks like this is now fixed. I'm not having any problems with the site in IE7 (other than the layout problems which were there before!) --[[User:Abates|abates]] 01:50, 28 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Not fixed for me. I can look at any page on the Wiki...so long as I don't try to log in. Then I get the above error and NONE of the pages will load until I exit out and then re-enter the Wiki. (Xaaron) --[[Special:Contributions/70.185.107.140|70.185.107.140]] 10:40, 31 May 2009 (EDT) <br /> <br /> ===Database Error===<br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Database Error<br /> |color=#fff799<br /> |name=[[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=Some pages are randomly showing as &quot;Database Error&quot;s rather than the pages (with full Wiki skin, plus the page categories. This shows as:&lt;blockquote style=&quot;background:#eeefff&quot;&gt;Database error ''[as page header, in place of the title]''<br /> A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:<br /> <br /> (SQL query hidden)<br /> <br /> from within function &quot;MediaWikiBagOStuff::_doinsert&quot;. MySQL returned error &quot;1213: Deadlock found when trying to get lock; try restarting transaction (localhost)&quot;.&lt;/blockquote&gt;This ''appears'' to resolve itself for that specific page within a few minutes, but then recurs elsewhere.<br /> '''Current workaround:''' Wait a few minutes, then refresh the page<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :Most of the google results for this seem to be for MediaWiki version 1.13.0. I haven't found any talking about it with 1.12.0 which offered a resolution, other than the suggestion of turning on memcached. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:40, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ===Pages not changing after save===<br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Pages not changing after save<br /> |color=#fff799<br /> |name=[[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=I've had several cases now where a page has saved after an edit, but I get the original/unmodified page back on the post-save load. I have to force-reload it to see the edited page<br /> '''Current workaround:''' Shift-F5/Ctrl-F5 the page<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> :That sounds like a problem with the new caching module to me. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:27, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> ===Top and side areas don't show up on the Recent Changes page, as well as some others.===<br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Top and side areas don't show up on the Recent Changes page, as well as some others.<br /> |color=#fdc689<br /> |name=[[User:Detour|Detour]]<br /> |date=May 28, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=I haven't tested this on other browsers, but on IE6 when I go to the Recent Changes page neither the side bar with the GoBox and the Search or the top bar with the user ops and the &quot;Special page&quot; header load. [http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/Detour84/NoBars.png Here's how it looks.] It was actually working from... around the end of the afternoon/start of the evening. Stopped working again some time past midnight (the same as other recurring problems such as blank pages). On occasion it doesn't show up on other pages, which means I can't use the Edit and Discussion tabs on there.<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :Gah! Looks like the IE7 problem and the [[Optimus Prime (G1)]] problem have come back as well! WTF?! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 04:27, 28 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Sometimes also happens on Safari. [[User:Tupka86]][[Special:Contributions/82.72.66.241|82.72.66.241]] 06:04, 28 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::This is definitely caused by the page not loading entirely. It cuts off while loading the article/recent changes list, and doesn't even get to the side and top bars. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 17:50, 28 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ===Database error when saving article===<br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Database error when saving article<br /> |color=#fff799<br /> |name=[[User:abates|abates]]<br /> |date=May 29, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=I don't know how widespread this problem is, as I've only gotten it while editing [[User_talk:Magnus_Maximus]]. When saving the page, I get:<br /> &lt;blockquote style=&quot;background:#eeefff&quot;&gt;A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:&lt;br&gt;<br /> &lt;br&gt;<br /> (SQL query hidden)&lt;br&gt;<br /> &lt;br&gt;<br /> from within function &quot;EmailNotification::actuallyNotifyOnPageChange&quot;. MySQL returned error &quot;2006: MySQL server has gone away (localhost)&quot;.&lt;/blockquote&gt;<br /> <br /> After a couple of attempts, I was able to save the edit. Haven't had any problems with any other pages - could be because the page has a watch or something set on it?<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> <br /> ==Resolved issues==<br /> ===Faction icons invisible for me===<br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Faction icons invisible for me<br /> |color=#7cc576<br /> |name=[[User:Starfield|Starfield]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=fixed<br /> |description=Self explanatory<br /> |resolution= '''FIXED'''<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :The template is actually rendering correctly, the problem appears to be on the javascript-end. Either the code didn't get ported, or was deactivated while Scout was testing stuff or one of the MW Javascript-functions it depends on changed slightly witht he MegiaWiki version upgrade, and the code now needs tweaking.<br /> :Other Javascript (like the search-suggest) is working. And... KiredTools is '''not'''?<br /> :Did the name of the default skin change when we moved servers? Or maybe it's the post-body error output that's screwing up KiredTools loading... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:28, 28 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I very distinctly remember that they ''were'' working before. I'll put good money on it being the latter. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 02:54, 28 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::''There.'' --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 03:12, 28 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Awesome. That fixes the other Javascript problems I was having too, they're all running now! -10:04, 28 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> ===Error messages in search-suggest===<br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Error messages in search-suggest<br /> |color=#7cc576<br /> |name=[[User:Derik|Derik]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=When typing in the search box, the following error message appears below the suggestions: &lt;tt&gt;'''Fatal error:''' Unknown: Cannot find save handler mm in '''Unknown''' on line '''0'''&lt;/tt&gt;<br /> |resolution=Resolved: see below.<br /> }}<br /> <br /> ===&quot;Line 0&quot; error in ''action=raw'' output===<br /> {{bug<br /> |title=&quot;Line 0&quot; error in ''action=raw'' output<br /> |color=#7cc576<br /> |name=[[User:Derik|Derik]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=When viewing a page's content in RAW mode, the error <br /> &lt;tt&gt;'''Fatal error:''' Unknown: Cannot find save handler mm in '''Unknown''' on line '''0'''&lt;/tt&gt; is appended.&lt;br/&gt;<br /> '''Example:''' Content of [[Image_talk:Animated_carerra.jpg]] in [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Image_talk:Animated_carerra.jpg&amp;action=raw&amp;ctype=text/css raw] mode, and in normal [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Image_talk:Animated_carerra.jpg&amp;action=edit edit]mode.&lt;br/&gt;<br /> ''(The text of the error is suggestive of caching, which makes me think this might be important.)''<br /> |resolution= '''Fixed.''' Cause...?<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :Egads, a google suggests that's a PHP problem [http://www.torrentflux.com/forum/index.php?topic=4053.0] [http://www.phpbuilder.com/board/showthread.php?t=10327521] [http://forums.oscommerce.com/index.php?showtopic=181028&amp;mode=linear] Also I presume this is what's causing the error on the search suggestions, so the two bugs are essentially one. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:13, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Actually, Derik, that's there on all pages, not just action=raw mode - look at the ''very'' bottom left of any page (you may have to highlight to see it, since it comes out as black text). - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 19:28, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::It appears at the bottom of the stylesheet/javascript files as well, which I'm sure isn't helping things. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 20:56, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::Fixed ~May 28th. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 11:58, 1 June 2009 (EDT)</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Sitenotice&diff=302505 2009-05-30T18:19:26Z

<p>Suki Brits: Replacing page with &#039;-&#039;</p> <hr /> <div>-</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki_talk:Community_Portal/Arriving2&diff=301457 2009-05-28T07:13:43Z

<p>Suki Brits: /* Bug reports */</p> <hr /> <div>== Many Happy Returns ==<br /> <br /> Heeeeey, this is pretty good. --[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 17:15, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :It's speedier than the old server, but there's still some wonkiness. For instance, every time I tried editing just this section I got a blank page, but editing the whole page seems to have worked. Also, I keep getting logged out. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:00, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I can't even log in. What's going on? -- SFH (cannot log in) 18:01, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I'm thinking there may be some wonkiness related to cookies made before, or even ''during'' the transition. I did get some &quot;session data lost&quot; messages, but after a log out and a log back in, that seems to be resolved.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 18:06, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::So what exactly do I have to do to be able to log in? -- SFH (desperately trying to log in) 18:19, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::You could try clearing your cache and deleting your cookies and see if that helps. Other than that, I'm not sure what to suggest. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:23, 26 May 2009 (EDT)--[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:23, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::What are you getting when you try to log in? A blank page? An error message? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:32, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::&quot;Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage&quot;. Does that help? -- SFH (unable to log in) 19:00, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Welp, I'm on firefox, and I'm logged in, and I'm only editing this section and it's displaying right, so... I'm happy! /:) - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 19:08, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Well, I tried Firefox, and it's working, but still not on Internet explorer. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 19:19, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Tried here with IE6. No problems logging in, but when I attempted to log out, I got a &quot;Cannot find server or DNS Error&quot; error. The second logout attempt worked, but then when I went to log in again, I got the same error.<br /> :::::Deleting the tfwiki cookie fixed the problem and I was able to log in. In fact now I'm not having any problem at all logging in and out on IE6. The sidebar on the login pages appears messed up in IE though (tis cutting off in the middle of the navigation menu). --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:39, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::What is this &quot;Internet Explorer&quot; you speak of? Is it a 3rd party browser? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:37, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I'm getting a lot of [http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/1395/tfwikierror.png &quot;The requested URL could not be retrieved&quot;] messages, and the occasional blank page or &quot;loss of session data&quot;, myself. - [[User:Magnus Maximus|Magnus Maximus]] 19:47, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I occasionally get the message: ''Sorry! We could not process your edit due to a loss of session data. Please try again. If it still doesn't work, try logging out and logging back in.'' - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 20:13, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::So do I. And I did delete my tfwiki cookie, but I still get internet explorer cannot display the webpage. This is getting rediculous. -- SFH 20:18, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I have problems logging in, logging out and displaying the lefthand navigation and the user controls on top for the Recent Changes page: [http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/Detour84/NoBars.png] --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:36, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::That happens on other pages too, as it turns out. Like the new Nexus Maximus image, or [[Cryotek (TransTech)]]. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:41, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Trying to search for (not &quot;Go&quot; to) &lt;tt&gt;splinter&lt;/tt&gt; or terms containing it such as &lt;tt&gt;splinter timeline&lt;/tt&gt; gives a white screen of death. Also had trouble saving this post due to &quot;a loss of session data&quot;. Trying hitting &quot;Show preview&quot; before &quot;Save page&quot; to see if that works...<br /> [And shouldn't this be @ [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving2]]? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]]<br /> :Ask and ye shall etc. etc.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 21:36, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Searching for &quot;splinter&quot; works for me! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:42, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Still not working for me, and no number of Shift-F5 or Ctrl-F5 forced refreshes is making it so. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:47, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> So, I'm getting no top or side bars (including the discussion/edit/history part up top), and there's incomplete wikicode showing up at the bottom of this specific page. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:50, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Yeah, I'm getting that too - that means the page isn't fully loading, since they're at the bottom of the HTML. I can't get [[Unicron]] to fully load even the text for love nor money, and [[Optimus Prime (G1)]] is even worse. And I'm getting those &quot;loss of session data&quot; messages about a fifth of the time, meaning I have to (re-)preview or show changes, then save. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 22:34, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Unicron works for me, but not Optimus. I'm wondering if these problems are caused not by MediaWiki, but by Squid, which we're using for caching. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 00:05, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::It definitely IS problems with Squid, not MediaWiki itself; right now I'm really uncertain as to what's causing them. Unfortunately I can't just disable Squid, since the wiki buckles massively under the pressure without it. I'm trying to look into it, it's baffling, because the issues are seemingly at random. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 00:34, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::[http://article.gmane.org/gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.technical/36221 This], while old, may be relevant as it seems to be about blank pages getting stuck in the Squid cache and a workaround. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 03:41, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::&lt;s&gt;Oh my god, I love you, that ''does'' seem to fix the problem. Thank you so much!&lt;/s&gt; Apparently I spoke too soon. I guess this will need more work. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 04:17, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::I was just able to log in on Internet Explorer just now. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 21:41, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Which version of IE are you using? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:58, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::IE7. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 22:06, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Bug reports ==<br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Can't edit some pages when logged in<br /> |color=#fdc689<br /> |name=[[User:Derik|Derik]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=Some pages (or even [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Colonel_Franklin&amp;action=edit&amp;section=0 ''sections'' of pages]) will always come up as '''white screens''' when I attempt to edit them-- but if I log out, they are editable.<br /> *This does not appear browser of cookie-cache thing... the behavior repeats in Firefox, Safari, Opera and Chrome. (Did not bother testing IE.)<br /> *Are ''other'' users able to edit these pages when logged in/out (use the Franklin-section link above to check.) Are the ''same'' pages whitescreening for all users experiencing this problem?<br /> '''Current Workaround:''' Log out as needed. (Not ideal, may create problems for semi-protected pages.)<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :I haven't explored any of these extensively, but I can give my experience of the past few hours, at least. All examples are from when I've been logged in on Firefox. Apologies in advance if this isn't the proper format for responding. Please feel free to rework as necessary.<br /> <br /> :My attempt to review just the difference made by Derik's last edit to the [[Transformers Wiki:Community record|Community record]] page generated a white screen. To see the actual change he made, I had to link directly to the article, then its history page, then the &quot;last&quot; link for his edit.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 06:25, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I can no longer duplicate this. Has it been fixed? Also [[Optimus Prime (G1)]] is now loading fully every time... --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:24, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::I ''believe'' I've fixed it. I need to know if anyone can replicate the issue or not. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 22:37, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::This just cropped up again when I tried to edit some images. :( --[[User:Abates|abates]] 03:10, 28 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Which images? I need to know what I'm testing with. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 03:13, 28 May 2009 (EDT) <br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Persistent &quot;loss of session data&quot; error when saving edits.<br /> |color=#fff799<br /> |name=[[User:Derik|Derik]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description='''Normally''' if you try to save a page and your session has &quot;Done Something Funky&quot; since you began editing it, Mediawiki gives you a preview instead an an edit, and prompts you to re-save again, whereupon the problem has repaired itself.&lt;br/&gt;<br /> '''Now''' it simply gives you Session Error after Session Error-- the page remains impossible to save.<br /> '''Workaround:''' Copy the text of your edit, go back to the page and click 'edit' again. You will now be able to save. (This error seems to hinge on the 'time you began editing' timestamp not re-setting itself if there was a problem.)<br /> |resolution= (Low priority)<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :I had a problem like that a few hours ago with editing the [[Ruckus (Shattered Glass)]] page. I was able to open and edit the page, but once I was done and clicked &quot;save&quot;, it returned a blank white page, ignoring several attempts to refresh. When I checked the Recent Changes list, though, I saw my edit listed, so I didn't bother to mess with it further.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 06:25, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Whitepage with the edit going through would be a slightly different sort of error. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 10:08, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Actually, the easiest workaround for this is to hit &quot;Show preview&quot; or &quot;Show changes&quot;, THEN save. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 10:02, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> This is getting worse. When I was reverting Derik's dicking around there, it was taking five or six attempts to get the page to actually save. (May take the same here. 2...) - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 22:29, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Same here. I keep getting loss of session data errors even when I click &quot;show preview&quot; and then &quot;save page&quot;. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:00, 28 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Some pages not loading fully<br /> |color=#f26c4f<br /> |name=[[User:abates|abates]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=Large pages ([[Optimus Prime (G1)]], [[Unicron]]) may not load fully, losing the bottom part of the page and the website kibble. The location of the cut-out point varies if the page is reloading, suggesting that Squid isn't caching the partial page and is possibly timing out when trying to retrieve the article.<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :Definitely getting this problem. Repeated refreshes of [[Optimus Prime (G1)]]'s page got the browser to cycle through several different cut-off versions of the page, some more complete than others, but none past about halfway through the IDW Comics Continuity section.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 06:25, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::This does not seem to represent a hard limit-- running action=purge on the OP page kept giving me slightly different 'lengths.'<br /> ::Is this caused by the condom on our clownfish? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 10:08, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Problems logging in/browsing while logged in with IE7<br /> |color=#fff799<br /> |name=[[User:abates|abates]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=In Internet Explorer 7, when loading the login page/after logging in/browsing while logged in, pages would load and display then abruptly switch to a screen saying &quot;Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage&quot;. Problem appears to be related to Google analytics, as the one time this didn't happen was when a page didn't load fully and was broken off partway through the Google Analytics code. Problem does not seem to occur while logged out however. Purged cache and cookie files, but problem recurred after logging in.<br /> '''Current workaround:''' Use an alternate browser,<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :Looks like this is now fixed. I'm not having any problems with the site in IE7 (other than the layout problems which were there before!) --[[User:Abates|abates]] 01:50, 28 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Database Error<br /> |color=#fff799<br /> |name=[[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=Some pages are randomly showing as &quot;Database Error&quot;s rather than the pages (with full Wiki skin, plus the page categories. This shows as:&lt;blockquote style=&quot;background:#eeefff&quot;&gt;Database error ''[as page header, in place of the title]''<br /> A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:<br /> <br /> (SQL query hidden)<br /> <br /> from within function &quot;MediaWikiBagOStuff::_doinsert&quot;. MySQL returned error &quot;1213: Deadlock found when trying to get lock; try restarting transaction (localhost)&quot;.&lt;/blockquote&gt;This ''appears'' to resolve itself for that specific page within a few minutes, but then recurs elsewhere.<br /> '''Current workaround:''' Wait a few minutes, then refresh the page<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :Most of the google results for this seem to be for MediaWiki version 1.13.0. I haven't found any talking about it with 1.12.0 which offered a resolution, other than the suggestion of turning on memcached. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:40, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Pages not changing after save<br /> |color=#fff799<br /> |name=[[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=I've had several cases now where a page has saved after an edit, but I get the original/unmodified page back on the post-save load. I have to force-reload it to see the edited page<br /> '''Current workaround:''' Shift-F5/Ctrl-F5 the page<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> :That sounds like a problem with the new caching module to me. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:27, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Error messages in search-suggest<br /> |color=#ccc<br /> |name=[[User:Starfield|Starfield]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=When typing in the search box, the following error message appears below the suggestions: &lt;tt&gt;'''Fatal error:''' Unknown: Cannot find save handler mm in '''Unknown''' on line '''0'''&lt;/tt&gt;<br /> |resolution= this is cosmetic, concentrate on other things<br /> }}<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=&quot;Line 0&quot; error in ''action=raw'' output<br /> |color=#fff799<br /> |name=[[User:Derik|Derik]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=When viewing a page's content in RAW mode, the error <br /> &lt;tt&gt;'''Fatal error:''' Unknown: Cannot find save handler mm in '''Unknown''' on line '''0'''&lt;/tt&gt; is appended.&lt;br/&gt;<br /> '''Example:''' Content of [[Image_talk:Animated_carerra.jpg]] in [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Image_talk:Animated_carerra.jpg&amp;action=raw&amp;ctype=text/css raw] mode, and in normal [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Image_talk:Animated_carerra.jpg&amp;action=edit edit]mode.&lt;br/&gt;<br /> ''(The text of the error is suggestive of caching, which makes me think this might be important.)''<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :Egads, a google suggests that's a PHP problem [http://www.torrentflux.com/forum/index.php?topic=4053.0] [http://www.phpbuilder.com/board/showthread.php?t=10327521] [http://forums.oscommerce.com/index.php?showtopic=181028&amp;mode=linear] Also I presume this is what's causing the error on the search suggestions, so the two bugs are essentially one. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:13, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Actually, Derik, that's there on all pages, not just action=raw mode - look at the ''very'' bottom left of any page (you may have to highlight to see it, since it comes out as black text). - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 19:28, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::It appears at the bottom of the stylesheet/javascript files as well, which I'm sure isn't helping things. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 20:56, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Faction icons invisible for me<br /> |color=#ccc<br /> |name=[[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 22:58, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=Self explanatory<br /> |resolution= this is cosmetic, concentrate on other things<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :The template is actually rendering correctly, the problem appears to be on the javascript-end. Either the code didn't get ported, or was deactivated while Scout was testing stuff or one of the MW Javascript-functions it depends on changed slightly witht he MegiaWiki version upgrade, and the code now needs tweaking.<br /> :Other Javascript (like the search-suggest) is working. And... KiredTools is '''not'''?<br /> :Did the name of the default skin change when we moved servers? Or maybe it's the post-body error output that's screwing up KiredTools loading... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:28, 28 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I very distinctly remember that they ''were'' working before. I'll put good money on it being the latter. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 02:54, 28 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::''There.'' --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 03:12, 28 May 2009 (EDT)</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki_talk:Community_Portal/Arriving2&diff=301453 2009-05-28T07:12:26Z

<p>Suki Brits: /* Bug reports */</p> <hr /> <div>== Many Happy Returns ==<br /> <br /> Heeeeey, this is pretty good. --[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 17:15, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :It's speedier than the old server, but there's still some wonkiness. For instance, every time I tried editing just this section I got a blank page, but editing the whole page seems to have worked. Also, I keep getting logged out. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:00, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I can't even log in. What's going on? -- SFH (cannot log in) 18:01, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I'm thinking there may be some wonkiness related to cookies made before, or even ''during'' the transition. I did get some &quot;session data lost&quot; messages, but after a log out and a log back in, that seems to be resolved.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 18:06, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::So what exactly do I have to do to be able to log in? -- SFH (desperately trying to log in) 18:19, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::You could try clearing your cache and deleting your cookies and see if that helps. Other than that, I'm not sure what to suggest. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:23, 26 May 2009 (EDT)--[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:23, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::What are you getting when you try to log in? A blank page? An error message? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:32, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::&quot;Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage&quot;. Does that help? -- SFH (unable to log in) 19:00, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Welp, I'm on firefox, and I'm logged in, and I'm only editing this section and it's displaying right, so... I'm happy! /:) - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 19:08, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Well, I tried Firefox, and it's working, but still not on Internet explorer. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 19:19, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Tried here with IE6. No problems logging in, but when I attempted to log out, I got a &quot;Cannot find server or DNS Error&quot; error. The second logout attempt worked, but then when I went to log in again, I got the same error.<br /> :::::Deleting the tfwiki cookie fixed the problem and I was able to log in. In fact now I'm not having any problem at all logging in and out on IE6. The sidebar on the login pages appears messed up in IE though (tis cutting off in the middle of the navigation menu). --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:39, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::What is this &quot;Internet Explorer&quot; you speak of? Is it a 3rd party browser? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:37, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I'm getting a lot of [http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/1395/tfwikierror.png &quot;The requested URL could not be retrieved&quot;] messages, and the occasional blank page or &quot;loss of session data&quot;, myself. - [[User:Magnus Maximus|Magnus Maximus]] 19:47, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I occasionally get the message: ''Sorry! We could not process your edit due to a loss of session data. Please try again. If it still doesn't work, try logging out and logging back in.'' - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 20:13, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::So do I. And I did delete my tfwiki cookie, but I still get internet explorer cannot display the webpage. This is getting rediculous. -- SFH 20:18, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I have problems logging in, logging out and displaying the lefthand navigation and the user controls on top for the Recent Changes page: [http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/Detour84/NoBars.png] --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:36, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::That happens on other pages too, as it turns out. Like the new Nexus Maximus image, or [[Cryotek (TransTech)]]. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:41, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Trying to search for (not &quot;Go&quot; to) &lt;tt&gt;splinter&lt;/tt&gt; or terms containing it such as &lt;tt&gt;splinter timeline&lt;/tt&gt; gives a white screen of death. Also had trouble saving this post due to &quot;a loss of session data&quot;. Trying hitting &quot;Show preview&quot; before &quot;Save page&quot; to see if that works...<br /> [And shouldn't this be @ [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving2]]? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]]<br /> :Ask and ye shall etc. etc.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 21:36, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Searching for &quot;splinter&quot; works for me! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:42, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Still not working for me, and no number of Shift-F5 or Ctrl-F5 forced refreshes is making it so. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:47, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> So, I'm getting no top or side bars (including the discussion/edit/history part up top), and there's incomplete wikicode showing up at the bottom of this specific page. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:50, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Yeah, I'm getting that too - that means the page isn't fully loading, since they're at the bottom of the HTML. I can't get [[Unicron]] to fully load even the text for love nor money, and [[Optimus Prime (G1)]] is even worse. And I'm getting those &quot;loss of session data&quot; messages about a fifth of the time, meaning I have to (re-)preview or show changes, then save. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 22:34, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Unicron works for me, but not Optimus. I'm wondering if these problems are caused not by MediaWiki, but by Squid, which we're using for caching. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 00:05, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::It definitely IS problems with Squid, not MediaWiki itself; right now I'm really uncertain as to what's causing them. Unfortunately I can't just disable Squid, since the wiki buckles massively under the pressure without it. I'm trying to look into it, it's baffling, because the issues are seemingly at random. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 00:34, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::[http://article.gmane.org/gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.technical/36221 This], while old, may be relevant as it seems to be about blank pages getting stuck in the Squid cache and a workaround. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 03:41, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::&lt;s&gt;Oh my god, I love you, that ''does'' seem to fix the problem. Thank you so much!&lt;/s&gt; Apparently I spoke too soon. I guess this will need more work. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 04:17, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::I was just able to log in on Internet Explorer just now. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 21:41, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Which version of IE are you using? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:58, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::IE7. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 22:06, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Bug reports ==<br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Can't edit some pages when logged in<br /> |color=#fdc689<br /> |name=[[User:Derik|Derik]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=Some pages (or even [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Colonel_Franklin&amp;action=edit&amp;section=0 ''sections'' of pages]) will always come up as '''white screens''' when I attempt to edit them-- but if I log out, they are editable.<br /> *This does not appear browser of cookie-cache thing... the behavior repeats in Firefox, Safari, Opera and Chrome. (Did not bother testing IE.)<br /> *Are ''other'' users able to edit these pages when logged in/out (use the Franklin-section link above to check.) Are the ''same'' pages whitescreening for all users experiencing this problem?<br /> '''Current Workaround:''' Log out as needed. (Not ideal, may create problems for semi-protected pages.)<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :I haven't explored any of these extensively, but I can give my experience of the past few hours, at least. All examples are from when I've been logged in on Firefox. Apologies in advance if this isn't the proper format for responding. Please feel free to rework as necessary.<br /> <br /> :My attempt to review just the difference made by Derik's last edit to the [[Transformers Wiki:Community record|Community record]] page generated a white screen. To see the actual change he made, I had to link directly to the article, then its history page, then the &quot;last&quot; link for his edit.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 06:25, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I can no longer duplicate this. Has it been fixed? Also [[Optimus Prime (G1)]] is now loading fully every time... --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:24, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::I ''believe'' I've fixed it. I need to know if anyone can replicate the issue or not. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 22:37, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::This just cropped up again when I tried to edit some images. :( --[[User:Abates|abates]] 03:10, 28 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Persistent &quot;loss of session data&quot; error when saving edits.<br /> |color=#fff799<br /> |name=[[User:Derik|Derik]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description='''Normally''' if you try to save a page and your session has &quot;Done Something Funky&quot; since you began editing it, Mediawiki gives you a preview instead an an edit, and prompts you to re-save again, whereupon the problem has repaired itself.&lt;br/&gt;<br /> '''Now''' it simply gives you Session Error after Session Error-- the page remains impossible to save.<br /> '''Workaround:''' Copy the text of your edit, go back to the page and click 'edit' again. You will now be able to save. (This error seems to hinge on the 'time you began editing' timestamp not re-setting itself if there was a problem.)<br /> |resolution= (Low priority)<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :I had a problem like that a few hours ago with editing the [[Ruckus (Shattered Glass)]] page. I was able to open and edit the page, but once I was done and clicked &quot;save&quot;, it returned a blank white page, ignoring several attempts to refresh. When I checked the Recent Changes list, though, I saw my edit listed, so I didn't bother to mess with it further.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 06:25, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Whitepage with the edit going through would be a slightly different sort of error. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 10:08, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Actually, the easiest workaround for this is to hit &quot;Show preview&quot; or &quot;Show changes&quot;, THEN save. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 10:02, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> This is getting worse. When I was reverting Derik's dicking around there, it was taking five or six attempts to get the page to actually save. (May take the same here. 2...) - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 22:29, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Same here. I keep getting loss of session data errors even when I click &quot;show preview&quot; and then &quot;save page&quot;. --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 03:00, 28 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Some pages not loading fully<br /> |color=#f26c4f<br /> |name=[[User:abates|abates]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=Large pages ([[Optimus Prime (G1)]], [[Unicron]]) may not load fully, losing the bottom part of the page and the website kibble. The location of the cut-out point varies if the page is reloading, suggesting that Squid isn't caching the partial page and is possibly timing out when trying to retrieve the article.<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :Definitely getting this problem. Repeated refreshes of [[Optimus Prime (G1)]]'s page got the browser to cycle through several different cut-off versions of the page, some more complete than others, but none past about halfway through the IDW Comics Continuity section.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 06:25, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::This does not seem to represent a hard limit-- running action=purge on the OP page kept giving me slightly different 'lengths.'<br /> ::Is this caused by the condom on our clownfish? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 10:08, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Problems logging in/browsing while logged in with IE7<br /> |color=#fff799<br /> |name=[[User:abates|abates]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=In Internet Explorer 7, when loading the login page/after logging in/browsing while logged in, pages would load and display then abruptly switch to a screen saying &quot;Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage&quot;. Problem appears to be related to Google analytics, as the one time this didn't happen was when a page didn't load fully and was broken off partway through the Google Analytics code. Problem does not seem to occur while logged out however. Purged cache and cookie files, but problem recurred after logging in.<br /> '''Current workaround:''' Use an alternate browser,<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :Looks like this is now fixed. I'm not having any problems with the site in IE7 (other than the layout problems which were there before!) --[[User:Abates|abates]] 01:50, 28 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Database Error<br /> |color=#fff799<br /> |name=[[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=Some pages are randomly showing as &quot;Database Error&quot;s rather than the pages (with full Wiki skin, plus the page categories. This shows as:&lt;blockquote style=&quot;background:#eeefff&quot;&gt;Database error ''[as page header, in place of the title]''<br /> A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:<br /> <br /> (SQL query hidden)<br /> <br /> from within function &quot;MediaWikiBagOStuff::_doinsert&quot;. MySQL returned error &quot;1213: Deadlock found when trying to get lock; try restarting transaction (localhost)&quot;.&lt;/blockquote&gt;This ''appears'' to resolve itself for that specific page within a few minutes, but then recurs elsewhere.<br /> '''Current workaround:''' Wait a few minutes, then refresh the page<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :Most of the google results for this seem to be for MediaWiki version 1.13.0. I haven't found any talking about it with 1.12.0 which offered a resolution, other than the suggestion of turning on memcached. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:40, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Pages not changing after save<br /> |color=#fff799<br /> |name=[[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=I've had several cases now where a page has saved after an edit, but I get the original/unmodified page back on the post-save load. I have to force-reload it to see the edited page<br /> '''Current workaround:''' Shift-F5/Ctrl-F5 the page<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> :That sounds like a problem with the new caching module to me. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:27, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Error messages in search-suggest<br /> |color=#ccc<br /> |name=[[User:Starfield|Starfield]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=When typing in the search box, the following error message appears below the suggestions: &lt;tt&gt;'''Fatal error:''' Unknown: Cannot find save handler mm in '''Unknown''' on line '''0'''&lt;/tt&gt;<br /> |resolution= this is cosmetic, concentrate on other things<br /> }}<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=&quot;Line 0&quot; error in ''action=raw'' output<br /> |color=#fff799<br /> |name=[[User:Derik|Derik]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=When viewing a page's content in RAW mode, the error <br /> &lt;tt&gt;'''Fatal error:''' Unknown: Cannot find save handler mm in '''Unknown''' on line '''0'''&lt;/tt&gt; is appended.&lt;br/&gt;<br /> '''Example:''' Content of [[Image_talk:Animated_carerra.jpg]] in [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Image_talk:Animated_carerra.jpg&amp;action=raw&amp;ctype=text/css raw] mode, and in normal [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Image_talk:Animated_carerra.jpg&amp;action=edit edit]mode.&lt;br/&gt;<br /> ''(The text of the error is suggestive of caching, which makes me think this might be important.)''<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :Egads, a google suggests that's a PHP problem [http://www.torrentflux.com/forum/index.php?topic=4053.0] [http://www.phpbuilder.com/board/showthread.php?t=10327521] [http://forums.oscommerce.com/index.php?showtopic=181028&amp;mode=linear] Also I presume this is what's causing the error on the search suggestions, so the two bugs are essentially one. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:13, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Actually, Derik, that's there on all pages, not just action=raw mode - look at the ''very'' bottom left of any page (you may have to highlight to see it, since it comes out as black text). - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 19:28, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::It appears at the bottom of the stylesheet/javascript files as well, which I'm sure isn't helping things. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 20:56, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Faction icons invisible for me<br /> |color=#ccc<br /> |name=[[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 22:58, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=Self explanatory<br /> |resolution= this is cosmetic, concentrate on other things<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :The template is actually rendering correctly, the problem appears to be on the javascript-end. Either the code didn't get ported, or was deactivated while Scout was testing stuff or one of the MW Javascript-functions it depends on changed slightly witht he MegiaWiki version upgrade, and the code now needs tweaking.<br /> :Other Javascript (like the search-suggest) is working. And... KiredTools is '''not'''?<br /> :Did the name of the default skin change when we moved servers? Or maybe it's the post-body error output that's screwing up KiredTools loading... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:28, 28 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I very distinctly remember that they ''were'' working before. I'll put good money on it being the latter. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 02:54, 28 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::''There.'' --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 03:12, 28 May 2009 (EDT)</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki_talk:Community_Portal/Arriving2&diff=301440 2009-05-28T06:54:12Z

<p>Suki Brits: /* Bug reports */</p> <hr /> <div>== Many Happy Returns ==<br /> <br /> Heeeeey, this is pretty good. --[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 17:15, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :It's speedier than the old server, but there's still some wonkiness. For instance, every time I tried editing just this section I got a blank page, but editing the whole page seems to have worked. Also, I keep getting logged out. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:00, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I can't even log in. What's going on? -- SFH (cannot log in) 18:01, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I'm thinking there may be some wonkiness related to cookies made before, or even ''during'' the transition. I did get some &quot;session data lost&quot; messages, but after a log out and a log back in, that seems to be resolved.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 18:06, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::So what exactly do I have to do to be able to log in? -- SFH (desperately trying to log in) 18:19, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::You could try clearing your cache and deleting your cookies and see if that helps. Other than that, I'm not sure what to suggest. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:23, 26 May 2009 (EDT)--[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:23, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::What are you getting when you try to log in? A blank page? An error message? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:32, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::&quot;Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage&quot;. Does that help? -- SFH (unable to log in) 19:00, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Welp, I'm on firefox, and I'm logged in, and I'm only editing this section and it's displaying right, so... I'm happy! /:) - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 19:08, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Well, I tried Firefox, and it's working, but still not on Internet explorer. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 19:19, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Tried here with IE6. No problems logging in, but when I attempted to log out, I got a &quot;Cannot find server or DNS Error&quot; error. The second logout attempt worked, but then when I went to log in again, I got the same error.<br /> :::::Deleting the tfwiki cookie fixed the problem and I was able to log in. In fact now I'm not having any problem at all logging in and out on IE6. The sidebar on the login pages appears messed up in IE though (tis cutting off in the middle of the navigation menu). --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:39, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::What is this &quot;Internet Explorer&quot; you speak of? Is it a 3rd party browser? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:37, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I'm getting a lot of [http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/1395/tfwikierror.png &quot;The requested URL could not be retrieved&quot;] messages, and the occasional blank page or &quot;loss of session data&quot;, myself. - [[User:Magnus Maximus|Magnus Maximus]] 19:47, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I occasionally get the message: ''Sorry! We could not process your edit due to a loss of session data. Please try again. If it still doesn't work, try logging out and logging back in.'' - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 20:13, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::So do I. And I did delete my tfwiki cookie, but I still get internet explorer cannot display the webpage. This is getting rediculous. -- SFH 20:18, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I have problems logging in, logging out and displaying the lefthand navigation and the user controls on top for the Recent Changes page: [http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/Detour84/NoBars.png] --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:36, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::That happens on other pages too, as it turns out. Like the new Nexus Maximus image, or [[Cryotek (TransTech)]]. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:41, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Trying to search for (not &quot;Go&quot; to) &lt;tt&gt;splinter&lt;/tt&gt; or terms containing it such as &lt;tt&gt;splinter timeline&lt;/tt&gt; gives a white screen of death. Also had trouble saving this post due to &quot;a loss of session data&quot;. Trying hitting &quot;Show preview&quot; before &quot;Save page&quot; to see if that works...<br /> [And shouldn't this be @ [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving2]]? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]]<br /> :Ask and ye shall etc. etc.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 21:36, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Searching for &quot;splinter&quot; works for me! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:42, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Still not working for me, and no number of Shift-F5 or Ctrl-F5 forced refreshes is making it so. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:47, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> So, I'm getting no top or side bars (including the discussion/edit/history part up top), and there's incomplete wikicode showing up at the bottom of this specific page. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:50, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Yeah, I'm getting that too - that means the page isn't fully loading, since they're at the bottom of the HTML. I can't get [[Unicron]] to fully load even the text for love nor money, and [[Optimus Prime (G1)]] is even worse. And I'm getting those &quot;loss of session data&quot; messages about a fifth of the time, meaning I have to (re-)preview or show changes, then save. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 22:34, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Unicron works for me, but not Optimus. I'm wondering if these problems are caused not by MediaWiki, but by Squid, which we're using for caching. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 00:05, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::It definitely IS problems with Squid, not MediaWiki itself; right now I'm really uncertain as to what's causing them. Unfortunately I can't just disable Squid, since the wiki buckles massively under the pressure without it. I'm trying to look into it, it's baffling, because the issues are seemingly at random. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 00:34, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::[http://article.gmane.org/gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.technical/36221 This], while old, may be relevant as it seems to be about blank pages getting stuck in the Squid cache and a workaround. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 03:41, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::&lt;s&gt;Oh my god, I love you, that ''does'' seem to fix the problem. Thank you so much!&lt;/s&gt; Apparently I spoke too soon. I guess this will need more work. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 04:17, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::I was just able to log in on Internet Explorer just now. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 21:41, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Which version of IE are you using? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:58, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::IE7. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 22:06, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Bug reports ==<br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Can't edit some pages when logged in<br /> |color=#fdc689<br /> |name=[[User:Derik|Derik]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=Some pages (or even [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Colonel_Franklin&amp;action=edit&amp;section=0 ''sections'' of pages]) will always come up as '''white screens''' when I attempt to edit them-- but if I log out, they are editable.<br /> *This does not appear browser of cookie-cache thing... the behavior repeats in Firefox, Safari, Opera and Chrome. (Did not bother testing IE.)<br /> *Are ''other'' users able to edit these pages when logged in/out (use the Franklin-section link above to check.) Are the ''same'' pages whitescreening for all users experiencing this problem?<br /> '''Current Workaround:''' Log out as needed. (Not ideal, may create problems for semi-protected pages.)<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :I haven't explored any of these extensively, but I can give my experience of the past few hours, at least. All examples are from when I've been logged in on Firefox. Apologies in advance if this isn't the proper format for responding. Please feel free to rework as necessary.<br /> <br /> :My attempt to review just the difference made by Derik's last edit to the [[Transformers Wiki:Community record|Community record]] page generated a white screen. To see the actual change he made, I had to link directly to the article, then its history page, then the &quot;last&quot; link for his edit.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 06:25, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I can no longer duplicate this. Has it been fixed? Also [[Optimus Prime (G1)]] is now loading fully every time... --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:24, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::I ''believe'' I've fixed it. I need to know if anyone can replicate the issue or not. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 22:37, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Persistent &quot;loss of session data&quot; error when saving edits.<br /> |color=#fff799<br /> |name=[[User:Derik|Derik]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description='''Normally''' if you try to save a page and your session has &quot;Done Something Funky&quot; since you began editing it, Mediawiki gives you a preview instead an an edit, and prompts you to re-save again, whereupon the problem has repaired itself.&lt;br/&gt;<br /> '''Now''' it simply gives you Session Error after Session Error-- the page remains impossible to save.<br /> '''Workaround:''' Copy the text of your edit, go back to the page and click 'edit' again. You will now be able to save. (This error seems to hinge on the 'time you began editing' timestamp not re-setting itself if there was a problem.)<br /> |resolution= (Low priority)<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :I had a problem like that a few hours ago with editing the [[Ruckus (Shattered Glass)]] page. I was able to open and edit the page, but once I was done and clicked &quot;save&quot;, it returned a blank white page, ignoring several attempts to refresh. When I checked the Recent Changes list, though, I saw my edit listed, so I didn't bother to mess with it further.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 06:25, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Whitepage with the edit going through would be a slightly different sort of error. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 10:08, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Actually, the easiest workaround for this is to hit &quot;Show preview&quot; or &quot;Show changes&quot;, THEN save. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 10:02, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> This is getting worse. When I was reverting Derik's dicking around there, it was taking five or six attempts to get the page to actually save. (May take the same here. 2...) - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 22:29, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Some pages not loading fully<br /> |color=#f26c4f<br /> |name=[[User:abates|abates]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=Large pages ([[Optimus Prime (G1)]], [[Unicron]]) may not load fully, losing the bottom part of the page and the website kibble. The location of the cut-out point varies if the page is reloading, suggesting that Squid isn't caching the partial page and is possibly timing out when trying to retrieve the article.<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :Definitely getting this problem. Repeated refreshes of [[Optimus Prime (G1)]]'s page got the browser to cycle through several different cut-off versions of the page, some more complete than others, but none past about halfway through the IDW Comics Continuity section.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 06:25, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::This does not seem to represent a hard limit-- running action=purge on the OP page kept giving me slightly different 'lengths.'<br /> ::Is this caused by the condom on our clownfish? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 10:08, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Problems logging in/browsing while logged in with IE7<br /> |color=#fff799<br /> |name=[[User:abates|abates]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=In Internet Explorer 7, when loading the login page/after logging in/browsing while logged in, pages would load and display then abruptly switch to a screen saying &quot;Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage&quot;. Problem appears to be related to Google analytics, as the one time this didn't happen was when a page didn't load fully and was broken off partway through the Google Analytics code. Problem does not seem to occur while logged out however. Purged cache and cookie files, but problem recurred after logging in.<br /> '''Current workaround:''' Use an alternate browser,<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :Looks like this is now fixed. I'm not having any problems with the site in IE7 (other than the layout problems which were there before!) --[[User:Abates|abates]] 01:50, 28 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Database Error<br /> |color=#fff799<br /> |name=[[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=Some pages are randomly showing as &quot;Database Error&quot;s rather than the pages (with full Wiki skin, plus the page categories. This shows as:&lt;blockquote style=&quot;background:#eeefff&quot;&gt;Database error ''[as page header, in place of the title]''<br /> A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:<br /> <br /> (SQL query hidden)<br /> <br /> from within function &quot;MediaWikiBagOStuff::_doinsert&quot;. MySQL returned error &quot;1213: Deadlock found when trying to get lock; try restarting transaction (localhost)&quot;.&lt;/blockquote&gt;This ''appears'' to resolve itself for that specific page within a few minutes, but then recurs elsewhere.<br /> '''Current workaround:''' Wait a few minutes, then refresh the page<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :Most of the google results for this seem to be for MediaWiki version 1.13.0. I haven't found any talking about it with 1.12.0 which offered a resolution, other than the suggestion of turning on memcached. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:40, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Pages not changing after save<br /> |color=#fff799<br /> |name=[[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=I've had several cases now where a page has saved after an edit, but I get the original/unmodified page back on the post-save load. I have to force-reload it to see the edited page<br /> '''Current workaround:''' Shift-F5/Ctrl-F5 the page<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> :That sounds like a problem with the new caching module to me. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:27, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Error messages in search-suggest<br /> |color=#ccc<br /> |name=[[User:Starfield|Starfield]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=When typing in the search box, the following error message appears below the suggestions: &lt;tt&gt;'''Fatal error:''' Unknown: Cannot find save handler mm in '''Unknown''' on line '''0'''&lt;/tt&gt;<br /> |resolution= this is cosmetic, concentrate on other things<br /> }}<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=&quot;Line 0&quot; error in ''action=raw'' output<br /> |color=#fff799<br /> |name=[[User:Derik|Derik]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=When viewing a page's content in RAW mode, the error <br /> &lt;tt&gt;'''Fatal error:''' Unknown: Cannot find save handler mm in '''Unknown''' on line '''0'''&lt;/tt&gt; is appended.&lt;br/&gt;<br /> '''Example:''' Content of [[Image_talk:Animated_carerra.jpg]] in [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Image_talk:Animated_carerra.jpg&amp;action=raw&amp;ctype=text/css raw] mode, and in normal [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Image_talk:Animated_carerra.jpg&amp;action=edit edit]mode.&lt;br/&gt;<br /> ''(The text of the error is suggestive of caching, which makes me think this might be important.)''<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :Egads, a google suggests that's a PHP problem [http://www.torrentflux.com/forum/index.php?topic=4053.0] [http://www.phpbuilder.com/board/showthread.php?t=10327521] [http://forums.oscommerce.com/index.php?showtopic=181028&amp;mode=linear] Also I presume this is what's causing the error on the search suggestions, so the two bugs are essentially one. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:13, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Actually, Derik, that's there on all pages, not just action=raw mode - look at the ''very'' bottom left of any page (you may have to highlight to see it, since it comes out as black text). - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 19:28, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::It appears at the bottom of the stylesheet/javascript files as well, which I'm sure isn't helping things. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 20:56, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Faction icons invisible for me<br /> |color=#ccc<br /> |name=[[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 22:58, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=Self explanatory<br /> |resolution= this is cosmetic, concentrate on other things<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :The template is actually rendering correctly, the problem appears to be on the javascript-end. Either the code didn't get ported, or was deactivated while Scout was testing stuff or one of the MW Javascript-functions it depends on changed slightly witht he MegiaWiki version upgrade, and the code now needs tweaking.<br /> :Other Javascript (like the search-suggest) is working. And... KiredTools is '''not'''?<br /> :Did the name of the default skin change when we moved servers? Or maybe it's the post-body error output that's screwing up KiredTools loading... -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 01:28, 28 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I very distinctly remember that they ''were'' working before. I'll put good money on it being the latter. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 02:54, 28 May 2009 (EDT)</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki_talk:Community_Portal/Arriving2&diff=301335 2009-05-28T02:37:59Z

<p>Suki Brits: /* Bug reports */</p> <hr /> <div>== Many Happy Returns ==<br /> <br /> Heeeeey, this is pretty good. --[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 17:15, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :It's speedier than the old server, but there's still some wonkiness. For instance, every time I tried editing just this section I got a blank page, but editing the whole page seems to have worked. Also, I keep getting logged out. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:00, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I can't even log in. What's going on? -- SFH (cannot log in) 18:01, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I'm thinking there may be some wonkiness related to cookies made before, or even ''during'' the transition. I did get some &quot;session data lost&quot; messages, but after a log out and a log back in, that seems to be resolved.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 18:06, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::So what exactly do I have to do to be able to log in? -- SFH (desperately trying to log in) 18:19, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::You could try clearing your cache and deleting your cookies and see if that helps. Other than that, I'm not sure what to suggest. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:23, 26 May 2009 (EDT)--[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:23, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::What are you getting when you try to log in? A blank page? An error message? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:32, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::&quot;Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage&quot;. Does that help? -- SFH (unable to log in) 19:00, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Welp, I'm on firefox, and I'm logged in, and I'm only editing this section and it's displaying right, so... I'm happy! /:) - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 19:08, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Well, I tried Firefox, and it's working, but still not on Internet explorer. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 19:19, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Tried here with IE6. No problems logging in, but when I attempted to log out, I got a &quot;Cannot find server or DNS Error&quot; error. The second logout attempt worked, but then when I went to log in again, I got the same error.<br /> :::::Deleting the tfwiki cookie fixed the problem and I was able to log in. In fact now I'm not having any problem at all logging in and out on IE6. The sidebar on the login pages appears messed up in IE though (tis cutting off in the middle of the navigation menu). --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:39, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::What is this &quot;Internet Explorer&quot; you speak of? Is it a 3rd party browser? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:37, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I'm getting a lot of [http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/1395/tfwikierror.png &quot;The requested URL could not be retrieved&quot;] messages, and the occasional blank page or &quot;loss of session data&quot;, myself. - [[User:Magnus Maximus|Magnus Maximus]] 19:47, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I occasionally get the message: ''Sorry! We could not process your edit due to a loss of session data. Please try again. If it still doesn't work, try logging out and logging back in.'' - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 20:13, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::So do I. And I did delete my tfwiki cookie, but I still get internet explorer cannot display the webpage. This is getting rediculous. -- SFH 20:18, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I have problems logging in, logging out and displaying the lefthand navigation and the user controls on top for the Recent Changes page: [http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/Detour84/NoBars.png] --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:36, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::That happens on other pages too, as it turns out. Like the new Nexus Maximus image, or [[Cryotek (TransTech)]]. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:41, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Trying to search for (not &quot;Go&quot; to) &lt;tt&gt;splinter&lt;/tt&gt; or terms containing it such as &lt;tt&gt;splinter timeline&lt;/tt&gt; gives a white screen of death. Also had trouble saving this post due to &quot;a loss of session data&quot;. Trying hitting &quot;Show preview&quot; before &quot;Save page&quot; to see if that works...<br /> [And shouldn't this be @ [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving2]]? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]]<br /> :Ask and ye shall etc. etc.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 21:36, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Searching for &quot;splinter&quot; works for me! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:42, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Still not working for me, and no number of Shift-F5 or Ctrl-F5 forced refreshes is making it so. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:47, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> So, I'm getting no top or side bars (including the discussion/edit/history part up top), and there's incomplete wikicode showing up at the bottom of this specific page. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:50, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Yeah, I'm getting that too - that means the page isn't fully loading, since they're at the bottom of the HTML. I can't get [[Unicron]] to fully load even the text for love nor money, and [[Optimus Prime (G1)]] is even worse. And I'm getting those &quot;loss of session data&quot; messages about a fifth of the time, meaning I have to (re-)preview or show changes, then save. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 22:34, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Unicron works for me, but not Optimus. I'm wondering if these problems are caused not by MediaWiki, but by Squid, which we're using for caching. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 00:05, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::It definitely IS problems with Squid, not MediaWiki itself; right now I'm really uncertain as to what's causing them. Unfortunately I can't just disable Squid, since the wiki buckles massively under the pressure without it. I'm trying to look into it, it's baffling, because the issues are seemingly at random. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 00:34, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::[http://article.gmane.org/gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.technical/36221 This], while old, may be relevant as it seems to be about blank pages getting stuck in the Squid cache and a workaround. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 03:41, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::&lt;s&gt;Oh my god, I love you, that ''does'' seem to fix the problem. Thank you so much!&lt;/s&gt; Apparently I spoke too soon. I guess this will need more work. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 04:17, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::I was just able to log in on Internet Explorer just now. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 21:41, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Which version of IE are you using? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:58, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::IE7. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 22:06, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Bug reports ==<br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Can't edit some pages when logged in<br /> |color=#fdc689<br /> |name=[[User:Derik|Derik]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=Some pages (or even [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Colonel_Franklin&amp;action=edit&amp;section=0 ''sections'' of pages]) will always come up as '''white screens''' when I attempt to edit them-- but if I log out, they are editable.<br /> *This does not appear browser of cookie-cache thing... the behavior repeats in Firefox, Safari, Opera and Chrome. (Did not bother testing IE.)<br /> *Are ''other'' users able to edit these pages when logged in/out (use the Franklin-section link above to check.) Are the ''same'' pages whitescreening for all users experiencing this problem?<br /> '''Current Workaround:''' Log out as needed. (Not ideal, may create problems for semi-protected pages.)<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :I haven't explored any of these extensively, but I can give my experience of the past few hours, at least. All examples are from when I've been logged in on Firefox. Apologies in advance if this isn't the proper format for responding. Please feel free to rework as necessary.<br /> <br /> :My attempt to review just the difference made by Derik's last edit to the [[Transformers Wiki:Community record|Community record]] page generated a white screen. To see the actual change he made, I had to link directly to the article, then its history page, then the &quot;last&quot; link for his edit.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 06:25, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I can no longer duplicate this. Has it been fixed? Also [[Optimus Prime (G1)]] is now loading fully every time... --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:24, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::I ''believe'' I've fixed it. I need to know if anyone can replicate the issue or not. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 22:37, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Persistent &quot;loss of session data&quot; error when saving edits.<br /> |color=#fff799<br /> |name=[[User:Derik|Derik]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description='''Normally''' if you try to save a page and your session has &quot;Done Something Funky&quot; since you began editing it, Mediawiki gives you a preview instead an an edit, and prompts you to re-save again, whereupon the problem has repaired itself.&lt;br/&gt;<br /> '''Now''' it simply gives you Session Error after Session Error-- the page remains impossible to save.<br /> '''Workaround:''' Copy the text of your edit, go back to the page and click 'edit' again. You will now be able to save. (This error seems to hinge on the 'time you began editing' timestamp not re-setting itself if there was a problem.)<br /> |resolution= (Low priority)<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :I had a problem like that a few hours ago with editing the [[Ruckus (Shattered Glass)]] page. I was able to open and edit the page, but once I was done and clicked &quot;save&quot;, it returned a blank white page, ignoring several attempts to refresh. When I checked the Recent Changes list, though, I saw my edit listed, so I didn't bother to mess with it further.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 06:25, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Whitepage with the edit going through would be a slightly different sort of error. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 10:08, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Actually, the easiest workaround for this is to hit &quot;Show preview&quot; or &quot;Show changes&quot;, THEN save. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 10:02, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> This is getting worse. When I was reverting Derik's dicking around there, it was taking five or six attempts to get the page to actually save. (May take the same here. 2...) - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 22:29, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Some pages not loading fully<br /> |color=#f26c4f<br /> |name=[[User:abates|abates]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=Large pages ([[Optimus Prime (G1)]], [[Unicron]]) may not load fully, losing the bottom part of the page and the website kibble. The location of the cut-out point varies if the page is reloading, suggesting that Squid isn't caching the partial page and is possibly timing out when trying to retrieve the article.<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :Definitely getting this problem. Repeated refreshes of [[Optimus Prime (G1)]]'s page got the browser to cycle through several different cut-off versions of the page, some more complete than others, but none past about halfway through the IDW Comics Continuity section.--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 06:25, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::This does not seem to represent a hard limit-- running action=purge on the OP page kept giving me slightly different 'lengths.'<br /> ::Is this caused by the condom on our clownfish? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 10:08, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Problems logging in/browsing while logged in with IE7<br /> |color=#fff799<br /> |name=[[User:abates|abates]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=In Internet Explorer 7, when loading the login page/after logging in/browsing while logged in, pages would load and display then abruptly switch to a screen saying &quot;Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage&quot;. Problem appears to be related to Google analytics, as the one time this didn't happen was when a page didn't load fully and was broken off partway through the Google Analytics code. Problem does not seem to occur while logged out however. Purged cache and cookie files, but problem recurred after logging in.<br /> '''Current workaround:''' Use an alternate browser,<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Database Error<br /> |color=#fff799<br /> |name=[[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=Some pages are randomly showing as &quot;Database Error&quot;s rather than the pages (with full Wiki skin, plus the page categories. This shows as:&lt;blockquote style=&quot;background:#eeefff&quot;&gt;Database error ''[as page header, in place of the title]''<br /> A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:<br /> <br /> (SQL query hidden)<br /> <br /> from within function &quot;MediaWikiBagOStuff::_doinsert&quot;. MySQL returned error &quot;1213: Deadlock found when trying to get lock; try restarting transaction (localhost)&quot;.&lt;/blockquote&gt;This ''appears'' to resolve itself for that specific page within a few minutes, but then recurs elsewhere.<br /> '''Current workaround:''' Wait a few minutes, then refresh the page<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :Most of the google results for this seem to be for MediaWiki version 1.13.0. I haven't found any talking about it with 1.12.0 which offered a resolution, other than the suggestion of turning on memcached. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 16:40, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Pages not changing after save<br /> |color=#fff799<br /> |name=[[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=I've had several cases now where a page has saved after an edit, but I get the original/unmodified page back on the post-save load. I have to force-reload it to see the edited page<br /> '''Current workaround:''' Shift-F5/Ctrl-F5 the page<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> :That sounds like a problem with the new caching module to me. -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 17:27, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=Error messages in search-suggest<br /> |color=#ccc<br /> |name=[[User:Derik|Derik]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=When typing in the search box, the following error message appears below the suggestions: &lt;tt&gt;'''Fatal error:''' Unknown: Cannot find save handler mm in '''Unknown''' on line '''0'''&lt;/tt&gt;<br /> |resolution= this is cosmetic, concentrate on other things<br /> }}<br /> <br /> {{bug<br /> |title=&quot;Line 0&quot; error in ''action=raw'' output<br /> |color=#fff799<br /> |name=[[User:Derik|Derik]]<br /> |date=May 27, 2009<br /> |status=open<br /> |description=When viewing a page's content in RAW mode, the error <br /> &lt;tt&gt;'''Fatal error:''' Unknown: Cannot find save handler mm in '''Unknown''' on line '''0'''&lt;/tt&gt; is appended.&lt;br/&gt;<br /> '''Example:''' Content of [[Image_talk:Animated_carerra.jpg]] in [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Image_talk:Animated_carerra.jpg&amp;action=raw&amp;ctype=text/css raw] mode, and in normal [http://tfwiki.net/w2/index.php?title=Image_talk:Animated_carerra.jpg&amp;action=edit edit]mode.&lt;br/&gt;<br /> ''(The text of the error is suggestive of caching, which makes me think this might be important.)''<br /> |resolution=<br /> }}<br /> <br /> :Egads, a google suggests that's a PHP problem [http://www.torrentflux.com/forum/index.php?topic=4053.0] [http://www.phpbuilder.com/board/showthread.php?t=10327521] [http://forums.oscommerce.com/index.php?showtopic=181028&amp;mode=linear] Also I presume this is what's causing the error on the search suggestions, so the two bugs are essentially one. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:13, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Actually, Derik, that's there on all pages, not just action=raw mode - look at the ''very'' bottom left of any page (you may have to highlight to see it, since it comes out as black text). - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 19:28, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::It appears at the bottom of the stylesheet/javascript files as well, which I'm sure isn't helping things. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 20:56, 27 May 2009 (EDT)</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki_talk:Community_Portal/Arriving2&diff=300745 2009-05-27T08:17:43Z

<p>Suki Brits: /* Many Happy Returns */</p> <hr /> <div>== Many Happy Returns ==<br /> <br /> Heeeeey, this is pretty good. --[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 17:15, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :It's speedier than the old server, but there's still some wonkiness. For instance, every time I tried editing just this section I got a blank page, but editing the whole page seems to have worked. Also, I keep getting logged out. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:00, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I can't even log in. What's going on? -- SFH (cannot log in) 18:01, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I'm thinking there may be some wonkiness related to cookies made before, or even ''during'' the transition. I did get some &quot;session data lost&quot; messages, but after a log out and a log back in, that seems to be resolved.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 18:06, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::So what exactly do I have to do to be able to log in? -- SFH (desperately trying to log in) 18:19, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::You could try clearing your cache and deleting your cookies and see if that helps. Other than that, I'm not sure what to suggest. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:23, 26 May 2009 (EDT)--[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:23, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::What are you getting when you try to log in? A blank page? An error message? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:32, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::&quot;Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage&quot;. Does that help? -- SFH (unable to log in) 19:00, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Welp, I'm on firefox, and I'm logged in, and I'm only editing this section and it's displaying right, so... I'm happy! /:) - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 19:08, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Well, I tried Firefox, and it's working, but still not on Internet explorer. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 19:19, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Tried here with IE6. No problems logging in, but when I attempted to log out, I got a &quot;Cannot find server or DNS Error&quot; error. The second logout attempt worked, but then when I went to log in again, I got the same error.<br /> :::::Deleting the tfwiki cookie fixed the problem and I was able to log in. In fact now I'm not having any problem at all logging in and out on IE6. The sidebar on the login pages appears messed up in IE though (tis cutting off in the middle of the navigation menu). --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:39, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::What is this &quot;Internet Explorer&quot; you speak of? Is it a 3rd party browser? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:37, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I'm getting a lot of [http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/1395/tfwikierror.png &quot;The requested URL could not be retrieved&quot;] messages, and the occasional blank page or &quot;loss of session data&quot;, myself. - [[User:Magnus Maximus|Magnus Maximus]] 19:47, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I occasionally get the message: ''Sorry! We could not process your edit due to a loss of session data. Please try again. If it still doesn't work, try logging out and logging back in.'' - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 20:13, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::So do I. And I did delete my tfwiki cookie, but I still get internet explorer cannot display the webpage. This is getting rediculous. -- SFH 20:18, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I have problems logging in, logging out and displaying the lefthand navigation and the user controls on top for the Recent Changes page: [http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/Detour84/NoBars.png] --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:36, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::That happens on other pages too, as it turns out. Like the new Nexus Maximus image, or [[Cryotek (TransTech)]]. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:41, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Trying to search for (not &quot;Go&quot; to) &lt;tt&gt;splinter&lt;/tt&gt; or terms containing it such as &lt;tt&gt;splinter timeline&lt;/tt&gt; gives a white screen of death. Also had trouble saving this post due to &quot;a loss of session data&quot;. Trying hitting &quot;Show preview&quot; before &quot;Save page&quot; to see if that works...<br /> [And shouldn't this be @ [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving2]]? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]]<br /> :Ask and ye shall etc. etc.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 21:36, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Searching for &quot;splinter&quot; works for me! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:42, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Still not working for me, and no number of Shift-F5 or Ctrl-F5 forced refreshes is making it so. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:47, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> So, I'm getting no top or side bars (including the discussion/edit/history part up top), and there's incomplete wikicode showing up at the bottom of this specific page. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:50, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Yeah, I'm getting that too - that means the page isn't fully loading, since they're at the bottom of the HTML. I can't get [[Unicron]] to fully load even the text for love nor money, and [[Optimus Prime (G1)]] is even worse. And I'm getting those &quot;loss of session data&quot; messages about a fifth of the time, meaning I have to (re-)preview or show changes, then save. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 22:34, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Unicron works for me, but not Optimus. I'm wondering if these problems are caused not by MediaWiki, but by Squid, which we're using for caching. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 00:05, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::It definitely IS problems with Squid, not MediaWiki itself; right now I'm really uncertain as to what's causing them. Unfortunately I can't just disable Squid, since the wiki buckles massively under the pressure without it. I'm trying to look into it, it's baffling, because the issues are seemingly at random. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 00:34, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::[http://article.gmane.org/gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.technical/36221 This], while old, may be relevant as it seems to be about blank pages getting stuck in the Squid cache and a workaround. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 03:41, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::&lt;s&gt;Oh my god, I love you, that ''does'' seem to fix the problem. Thank you so much!&lt;/s&gt; Apparently I spoke too soon. I guess this will need more work. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 04:17, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Bug reports ==<br /> <br /> &lt;includeonly&gt;{| border=&quot;1&quot; class=&quot;wikitable&quot; {{#if:{{{color|}}}|style=&quot;background-color:{{{color}}};&quot;|}}<br /> |-<br /> !Bug Name<br /> | colspan=&quot;5&quot;|Title<br /> |-<br /> !Reported by<br /> |name<br /> !Date<br /> |date<br /> !Status<br /> |status<br /> |-<br /> !Description<br /> | colspan=&quot;5&quot; |Desc<br /> |-<br /> !Resolution<br /> | colspan=&quot;5&quot; |Resolution<br /> |}&lt;/includeonly&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;{{doc}}<br /> <br /> [[Category:Templates]]<br /> &lt;/noinclude&gt;</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki_talk:Community_Portal/Arriving2&diff=300622 2009-05-27T04:34:10Z

<p>Suki Brits: </p> <hr /> <div>== Many Happy Returns ==<br /> <br /> Heeeeey, this is pretty good. --[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 17:15, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :It's speedier than the old server, but there's still some wonkiness. For instance, every time I tried editing just this section I got a blank page, but editing the whole page seems to have worked. Also, I keep getting logged out. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:00, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I can't even log in. What's going on? -- SFH (cannot log in) 18:01, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I'm thinking there may be some wonkiness related to cookies made before, or even ''during'' the transition. I did get some &quot;session data lost&quot; messages, but after a log out and a log back in, that seems to be resolved.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 18:06, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::So what exactly do I have to do to be able to log in? -- SFH (desperately trying to log in) 18:19, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::You could try clearing your cache and deleting your cookies and see if that helps. Other than that, I'm not sure what to suggest. --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:23, 26 May 2009 (EDT)--[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:23, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::What are you getting when you try to log in? A blank page? An error message? --[[User:Abates|abates]] 18:32, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::&quot;Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage&quot;. Does that help? -- SFH (unable to log in) 19:00, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Welp, I'm on firefox, and I'm logged in, and I'm only editing this section and it's displaying right, so... I'm happy! /:) - [[User:Chris McFeely|Chris McFeely]] 19:08, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Well, I tried Firefox, and it's working, but still not on Internet explorer. -- [[User:SFH|SFH]] 19:19, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::Tried here with IE6. No problems logging in, but when I attempted to log out, I got a &quot;Cannot find server or DNS Error&quot; error. The second logout attempt worked, but then when I went to log in again, I got the same error.<br /> :::::Deleting the tfwiki cookie fixed the problem and I was able to log in. In fact now I'm not having any problem at all logging in and out on IE6. The sidebar on the login pages appears messed up in IE though (tis cutting off in the middle of the navigation menu). --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:39, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::What is this &quot;Internet Explorer&quot; you speak of? Is it a 3rd party browser? -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 19:37, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::I'm getting a lot of [http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/1395/tfwikierror.png &quot;The requested URL could not be retrieved&quot;] messages, and the occasional blank page or &quot;loss of session data&quot;, myself. - [[User:Magnus Maximus|Magnus Maximus]] 19:47, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I occasionally get the message: ''Sorry! We could not process your edit due to a loss of session data. Please try again. If it still doesn't work, try logging out and logging back in.'' - [[User:Starfield|Starfield]] 20:13, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::So do I. And I did delete my tfwiki cookie, but I still get internet explorer cannot display the webpage. This is getting rediculous. -- SFH 20:18, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::I have problems logging in, logging out and displaying the lefthand navigation and the user controls on top for the Recent Changes page: [http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/Detour84/NoBars.png] --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:36, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::That happens on other pages too, as it turns out. Like the new Nexus Maximus image, or [[Cryotek (TransTech)]]. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 20:41, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> Trying to search for (not &quot;Go&quot; to) &lt;tt&gt;splinter&lt;/tt&gt; or terms containing it such as &lt;tt&gt;splinter timeline&lt;/tt&gt; gives a white screen of death. Also had trouble saving this post due to &quot;a loss of session data&quot;. Trying hitting &quot;Show preview&quot; before &quot;Save page&quot; to see if that works...<br /> [And shouldn't this be @ [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving2]]? - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]]<br /> :Ask and ye shall etc. etc.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 21:36, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Searching for &quot;splinter&quot; works for me! --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:42, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Still not working for me, and no number of Shift-F5 or Ctrl-F5 forced refreshes is making it so. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:47, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> So, I'm getting no top or side bars (including the discussion/edit/history part up top), and there's incomplete wikicode showing up at the bottom of this specific page. --[[User:Detour|Detour]] 21:50, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Yeah, I'm getting that too - that means the page isn't fully loading, since they're at the bottom of the HTML. I can't get [[Unicron]] to fully load even the text for love nor money, and [[Optimus Prime (G1)]] is even worse. And I'm getting those &quot;loss of session data&quot; messages about a fifth of the time, meaning I have to (re-)preview or show changes, then save. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 22:34, 26 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::Unicron works for me, but not Optimus. I'm wondering if these problems are caused not by MediaWiki, but by Squid, which we're using for caching. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 00:05, 27 May 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::It definitely IS problems with Squid, not MediaWiki itself; right now I'm really uncertain as to what's causing them. Unfortunately I can't just disable Squid, since the wiki buckles massively under the pressure without it. I'm trying to look into it, it's baffling, because the issues are seemingly at random. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 00:34, 27 May 2009 (EDT)</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=User:Suki_Brits&diff=300314 2009-05-26T21:50:34Z

<p>Suki Brits: Just a test edit.</p> <hr /> <div>'''Suki Brits''', better known as '''Scout''' or '''Skyblitz''' in other parts of the fandom (it's a very clever pseudonym, you see), is the other active admin on this wiki. Don't hesitate to contact her if there's some sort of problem or dispute that needs assistance. She also deals with the more fiddly, technical things here. She's much less surly than [[User:ItsWalky]], she promises.<br /> <br /> She's also some sort of [http://www.scoutshonour.com writer], apparently, but who cares about that?<br /> <br /> ==Contact information==<br /> Especially in case of vandalism, IM may be your best bet.<br /> * AIM: ''Ruscaceae''<br /> * MSN: ''chris@scoutshonour.com'' (Don't e-mail here, it's a spam trap)<br /> * e-mail: [mailto:scout@scoutshonour.com scout@scoutshonour.com]</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Sitenotice&diff=300259 2009-05-26T18:13:15Z

<p>Suki Brits: </p> <hr /> <div>{{messagebox|<br /> |header=We're back!|width=600px||border=00FF00|bgcolor=CCFFCC<br /> |message_text=If you're seeing this message, it means you're looking at the wiki on our new server. Editing is enabled once more and everything should be working just as it was left.<br /> }}</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Sitenotice&diff=300257 2009-05-24T23:52:36Z

<p>Suki Brits: </p> <hr /> <div>{{messagebox|<br /> |header=We're moving in!|width=600px||border=FF0000|bgcolor=FFCCCC<br /> |message_text=The wiki is currently in read only mode while we pack everything up and move everything to the new server. Please be patient, the wiki will be back shortly.<br /> }}</div>

Suki Brits https://tfwiki.duckdns.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki_talk:Community_Portal&diff=246155 2009-03-27T14:53:09Z

<p>Suki Brits: /* So what now? */</p> <hr /> <div>__NEWSECTIONLINK__<br /> <br /> This is the place for discussion of topics that affect the entire wiki. Some topics that would ordinarily be here have merited their own pages:<br /> <br /> '''The move away from Wikia:'''<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Arriving]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki:Community Portal/Complaints]]<br /> <br /> '''Our policy on having ads in the wiki:'''<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki:Ads]]<br /> <br /> '''The Bookworm database-crash:'''<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central]]<br /> * [[Project:Bookworm Crash]]<br /> * [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Leaving2]]<br /> <br /> {|style=&quot;margin:0 auto;padding:0 auto&quot; align=center id=toc<br /> !align=center bgcolor=#6699CC|'''&lt;font color=&quot;white&quot;&gt;Community Portal Archives&lt;/font&gt;'''<br /> |- align=&quot;center&quot; <br /> || [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive1|Archive 1]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive2|Archive 2]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive3|Archive 3]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive4|Archive 4]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive5|Archive 5]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive6|Archive 6]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive7|Archive 7]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive8|Archive 8]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive9|Archive 9]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive10|Archive 10]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive11|Archive 11]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive12|Archive 12]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive13|Archive 13]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive14|Archive 14]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive15|Archive 15]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive16|Archive 16]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive17|Archive 17]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive18|Archive 18]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive19|Archive 19]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive20|Archive 20]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive21|Archive 21]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive22|Archive 22]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive23|Archive 23]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive24|Archive 24]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive25|Archive 25]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive26|Archive 26]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive27|Archive 27]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive28|Archive 28]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive29|Archive 29]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive30|Archive 30]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive31|Archive 31]] | [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive32|Archive 32]]<br /> |}<br /> <br /> ==So what now?==<br /> I brought this general line of questioning up [http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?s=&amp;showtopic=56439&amp;view=findpost&amp;p=1161767 over at the Allspark too,] but that was really only because TFWiki.net was down at the time. Basically, in the wake of the Bookworm disaster, I'd like to know three things:<br /> # '''How did this happen?''' All I know is that Bookworm updated the MediaWiki software, which caused... something... to happen to our data. The wiki was, what? Deleted? Corrupted? I don't know. But apparently this required a reversion to a backup, and the only available one was from June 2008. Why did that one even exist? Why not September? And, honestly, the &quot;routine backups&quot; made after September had ''all'' failed, with no one ever noticing? How did that happen?<br /> # '''Has the backup process been fixed?''' This is pretty much the most important question of the moment. Every bit of our herculean recovery effort could vanish again if the June backup is ''still'' the only one on the server.<br /> # '''Where are we going from here?''' Walky has said that [[Transformers Wiki talk:Community Portal/Damage Control Central/Archive1#Hey hey, what can I do|he's looking for a new host, and he has asked for advice]]. I haven't seen much advice appear (maybe people have been communicating with him in private?), but if anyone has any suggestions, please air them. I wouldn't even know where to start, so I'm of little help.<br /> - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 18:03, 23 March 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :Bookworm has explained to me what he thinks happened to the backups, but I couldn't begin to regurgitate that information. This stuff is not English for me. (Some would say English is not English for me.) It involves complicated server moves and DNS stuff, I think, and the bottom line is none of the backups were confirmed to have resulted in working backups; they were merely scheduled to be made, automatic-like, and resulted in, from what I understand, data being thrown into the ether, never sticking to anything. '''WHOOPS''' --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 01:23, 24 March 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::All right, so does he have it working NOW? - [[User:Jackpot|Jackpot]] 02:02, 24 March 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::Scout, according to a post on the Allspark, has been doing database downloads every afternoon. I don't know about Bookworm. If I asked him, he'd probably say yes, but he would have said yes before, too! --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 09:46, 24 March 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::Is there any way we can be sure we're getting ANY service out of Bookworm?--[[User:Apcog|Apcog]] 10:00, 24 March 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :I really have no concept of what to look for in a host. While I've managed to find decent hosting for my own site in the past, it's a static, relatively low-traffic site, nothing like here. A [http://webhostinggeeks.com/ quick search] reveals that there are plenty of hosts offering unlimited space and bandwidth for about $5/month, which sure seems like something we could afford. But I have no intuitive sense of how to identify a quality host for our kind of needs. Like, are these $5 guys the first level of low-grade vendors who have Google-statted their way up the search results, and you have to dig deeper to find the more heavy-duty kind of host we'd need? Are the recommended hosts on that page just there 'cause they paid for it? Or is $5 just the going rate for quality hosting these days? How do we distinguish a reseller from an actual host? How much software and setup support do we need?<br /> <br /> :I mean, I guess I'd expect a serious host not to have [http://www.justhost.com/ cheap tarts on their front page], but ''anybody'' can make a [http://www.inmotionhosting.com/ serious, grey-toned, business-like web page]... even guys who provide crappy service. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 18:36, 24 March 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::They may say they offer unlimited space or bandwidth, but I'm betting that there's a clause in the T&amp;C which limits it to &quot;for some meanings of unlimited&quot;. The big Doctor Who fiction archive site I help run got bumped from the cheaper account it was on to a more expensive one because it was using too many &quot;resources&quot; (the software it runs on is not the most efficient), though it was using less than the maximum bandwidth/disk space. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 19:26, 24 March 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :::That's exactly the kind of thing I'm wary of with these cheap places. The front-line search result hosts really don't seem like they're marketing to processor-intensive clients like ourselves. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 20:06, 24 March 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> ::::What is our price limit, anyway? I mean, the account which the aforemented fanfiction site is on is extremely reliable, you get access to everything up to and including rebooting the server if you want. However drawback is that it costs $40 a month. Now it could be we could share costs by having several sites hosted on the same server (I'd have to check with the web host about that), but I don't know what our price range is. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 21:34, 24 March 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::I would be very interested in hearing our budgetary constraints as well. The last time this was asked, Walky said that Bookworm was handling it and that the dude would let him know if what we were doing was costing more than the Project Wonderful ads were pulling in. At the time that was cool as school but in retrospect it seems... really skeevy. It also possibly says that Bookworm ''already'' has our ad revenue, and can effectively hold us hostage. I know that sounds paranoid, but I don't know what to think right now and would love some reassurance at the least.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 00:24, 25 March 2009 (EDT)<br /> ::::::Bookworm absolutely cannot hold our ad revenue hostage. WE have our ad revenue. It is gathering in our Project Wonderful account, where it will remain until we can point it to a paypal account at some point in the future. Bookworm may have fucked over the wiki this past week, but he's not a jerky guy. He just loves webcomics, and basically hosts BLC at low-cost because it allows his favorite things to continue. Hosting the TF Wiki was an extension of that, and he did it because I asked him. Let's not demonify the guy any more than we have to. He's not going to screw us over, and I really doubt he has any bad intentions in mind. --[[User:ItsWalky|ItsWalky]] 00:34, 25 March 2009 (EDT)<br /> :::::::Consider me reassured, then. Likely me just taking the earlier statement too far. Understandably, the concept of how the wiki is financed and how much it is costing us has been pretty black box up to now.--[[User:Rosicrucian|Rosicrucian]][[User Talk:Rosicrucian|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 00:36, 25 March 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> My input:<br /> <br /> I used [http://eperfect.net/ ePerfect] as my first webhost. I found them to be reliable and easy to administer, but we would have to negotiate our own package with them, as their standard plans are obviously way too small. (I do know a fellow who did such a negotiation for his website, so I know it was possible at least in the past, however I am not privy to what his costs ended up being.) I also have no idea how their tech support is, as I never had to talk with them for any reason.<br /> <br /> My current webhost is [http://dreamhost.com/ Dreamhost]. For $10/month you get gobs of space, bandwidth, and options (and full control over your space), and they also have private virtual server options. They also will host one domain name for free if you have webspace with them. I find their tech support people have been quick on the response the few times I've needed to talk to them.<br /> <br /> However, they have had some hardware goofs in the past, and I've never had personal experience with how they'd handle a no doubt high-bandwidth, high-CPU-usage site like this one. They are, however, very quick and open with any and all issues they have: [http://www.dreamhoststatus.com/ Dreamhost Status Blog]<br /> <br /> So, there you have it, the only two webhosts I'm personally familiar with, and I admit I can't 100% recommend either, but they might be worth looking into. (And I shamelessly request that if you do end up with Dreamhost, you use my referrer code while signing up. :3 ) --[[User:Jeysie|Jeysie]] 18:59, 24 March 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> <br /> One of #wiigii!'s resident tech dudes recommends [http://www.slicehost.com/ Slicehost]. He immediately followed this up with a string of caveats -- it won't be perfect, we'd need someone to install Wikimedia, restoring from a backup would basically mean rolling back one day, etc etc -- but it sounds far better equipped to handle our needs than Bookworm, and it looks like exactly the kind of heavy-duty host which, as I said up above, I don't know how to search for. Some of it, I mean... ''no'' host is perfect, and we have to accept some compromise to keep things within our budget -- but reliable uptime and actual working backups would be a fantastic step up from our current situation. -- [[User:Repowers|Repowers]] 00:17, 25 March 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> : I am that tech dude. Here's the deal, from what has been gathered and occasionally specified. The platform on which this wiki runs seems to need a half-gig of RAM, and under 10 gigs of diskspace, but it does apparently need dual CPUs at a decent clock speed. Fundamentally, it could be hosted on a mid-range desktop based on those specs, but the hardware, and even the bandwidth, is cheap. You either need a sysadmin to maintain everything, which is not a full-time job '''until something breaks,''' or you need a managed hosting option that knows how to run MediaWiki properly. The former gives you complete control over everything, though you may not get cPanel support and the like unless you build it yourself. The latter is what you had when Wikia didn't suck, which I'm sure had a lot less headaches in terms of the guts of the system, although it was obviously NOT a good solution based on how they presented your content. Personally, I think you're more likely to find a pool of competent techies within the fandom to handle the nuts and bolts on a volunteer basis, though you would be handing over ALL the keys to the castle to that person. -- [[User:McFly|McFly]] 22:23, 26 March 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> :: I've dealt with this crap so far up until now. I have no qualms with continuing to do so. --[[User:Suki Brits|Suki Brits]] 10:53, 27 March 2009 (EDT) <br /> <br /> I thought I'd weigh in with [http://www.hostforweb.com/ HostForWeb], who I've hosted my personal site with since January '04. Their tech support is pretty good, and even moved my site to a different server for me when the one it was on started having persistent problems running out of disk space. The only thing I can flaw them on is that they don't announce downtime in advance, so a few times I've found the site down, emailed them, and they've told me that the server was being rebooted or something.<br /> <br /> The larger site which I help run which is hosted with them is [http://www.whofic.com/ A Teaspoon and an Open Mind]. It's been hosted there since September '06. Last month, it got an average 3,755 pageviews per day, and from user reports, it has very little in the way of downtime, but, as I mention, it's running on their $40-a-month VPS plan (you get a two-month discount if you pay for a year at a time). We started on one of the shared plans, but the site was using too many resources (The software we're using is not particularly efficient...) and we ended up being bumped to the VPS option. --[[User:Abates|abates]] 07:04, 25 March 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == Image aspect ratios ==<br /> <br /> I notice a lot of ''Animated'' screencaps, like [[:Image:SariLayingDown1.jpg]], are out-of-aspect ratio, which is kinda annoying - neither NTSC (480i, typically 720x480, US/Japan) nor PAL (576i, typically 720x576, UK/Europe/Australia) use square pixels, while computers do. A screencap from a 4:3 NTSC source should really be resized to 640px wide for uploading here, while a screencap from a 4:3 PAL source should be resized to 768px wide. - [[User:SanityOrMadness|SanityOrMadness]] 21:39, 26 March 2009 (EDT)<br /> <br /> == News from Wookieepedia ==<br /> <br /> A while back, one of the users here [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:SH_Archive/Site_Partnership_with_TFWiki suggested a partnership] between Wookieepedia and this wiki.<br /> In case you're wondering what happened with that, the ongoing nomination process is [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Official_Friends_of_Wookieepedia/Nominations#TFWiki.net here]. [[User:Silly Dan|Silly Dan]] 22:44, 26 March 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Awesome! Now, settle this argument - could Death Star transformed as Darth Vader beat Unicron? --[[User:FFN|FFN]] 07:13, 27 March 2009 (EDT)<br /> :Cool. I think I made a vague overture there at one point specifically about the coverage of Attacktix and that weird Star Wars vs. TF packaging - I understand there have been some direct and less-direct TF references in SW (which I imagine will only continue to crop up, given that the current and incoming generations of SW official content creators are likely to be of the age where they're at least casually aware of TF, if not fans in their own right), so this is probably a pretty reasonable networking opportunity. We can explain to you guys why the Optimus Prime that fought Darth Vader doesn't look like the one you had as a kid, and you can explain to us how the entire thing was totally non-canonical anyway. Heh heh. [[User:Hooper X|Hooper_X]] 07:54, 27 March 2009 (EDT)</div>

Suki Brits